| Surjikal | Venemo, Ok great.. I did install the gnokii-conf package (on the n900) and configured using the GUI. It did really do anything.. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Surjikal | It did not** | 00:00 |
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| Venemo | Surjikal, sorry, but I don't know the answer. please be patient, someone else may come along who knows :) | 00:00 |
| Surjikal | Venemo, sounds good, thanks! | 00:01 |
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| kwtm | Venemo: Thanks for the answer of "ifconfig". I had already tried that, actually, but ifconfig is not an available command. Is there some package from maemo.org that I should install to get ifconfig? | 00:02 |
| Venemo | kwtm, try 'root' then 'ifconfig' | 00:03 |
| kwtm | Venemo: Ahh, I was ahead of you there. Tried and failed. Are you able to do ifconfig on your N900? | 00:03 |
| Venemo | yes. | 00:03 |
| kwtm | Surjikal: You may want to post this in the maemo.org talk forums so people who just happen not to be online might be able to help. | 00:03 |
| Venemo | but it only finds the command when I'm root | 00:03 |
| Venemo | interestingly | 00:04 |
| Surjikal | kwtm, 'sudo gainroot' then 'ifconfig'? | 00:04 |
| kwtm | Venemo: Would you mind checking which package provides that ifconfig command on your N900? (I forget the actual command ... apt-cache search ifconfig or something...) | 00:04 |
| Venemo | kwtm, it's there by default | 00:04 |
| kwtm | Surjikal: Umm... does "sudo gainroot" do something different from "root"? | 00:04 |
| Venemo | yes. | 00:05 |
| kwtm | Venemo: Okay, would you mind typing "type ifconfig" on your N900? Maybe my path is not set up correctly. | 00:05 |
| Venemo | but you should use 'root' | 00:05 |
| Surjikal | kwtm, not sure.. try just 'sudo ifconfig' | 00:05 |
| Venemo | kwtm, 'ifconfig is /sbin/ifconfig' | 00:05 |
| kwtm | Venemo: Thanks. Will set that up. | 00:05 |
| Surjikal | Strange that the path was unset | 00:06 |
| kwtm | Surjikal: Interesting. It's in the path. I wonder why root can't run it after "root"... | 00:06 |
| Surjikal | kwtm, did you try sudo ifconfig? | 00:07 |
| Surjikal | That's how I normally do it. | 00:07 |
| Surjikal | That and sudo gainroot, ifconfig | 00:07 |
| Surjikal | or** | 00:07 |
| kwtm | Hmm, it's aliased to busybox... | 00:07 |
| Surjikal | ehhh? | 00:08 |
| Surjikal | that is strange | 00:08 |
| Venemo | not really. that's how busybox works | 00:08 |
| BCMM | symlinked, rather than aliased | 00:08 |
| Venemo | correct | 00:08 |
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| Surjikal | I see, how does it know which program to execute? | 00:08 |
| BCMM | busybox is a single binary, implementing sh, cat, ifconfig, top, etc. etc. | 00:09 |
| BCMM | it works out how to behave based on what it was called as | 00:09 |
| kwtm | Surjikal: Did you pre-configure the sudoers file to allow ifconfig? Mine says "user is not allowed to run /sbin/ifconfig" | 00:09 |
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| Surjikal | Don't remember 100% but I doubt it. | 00:09 |
| kwtm | Well, it's aliased to /sbin/ifconfig which is symlinked to busybox. | 00:09 |
| Venemo | Surjikal, the path from which your executable is called is passed as the first parameter to it. so it is the first item of main()'s argv | 00:09 |
| BCMM | (the first parameter, argv[0], is the name by which the program was invoked) | 00:10 |
| alterego | Cool, got a new solution for my Qml theming under meego issue :) | 00:10 |
| Venemo | anyway guys, I've gon an exam tomorrow and very little chance. so at least I'll try to rest before it :) | 00:10 |
| Venemo | byebye | 00:10 |
| BCMM | i.e. the 0th parameter of "echo a b c" is echo, not a | 00:10 |
| MohammadAG | good luck Venemo | 00:11 |
| Surjikal | Right, I thought that would have been busybox. I guess it makes sense that its ifconfig though :D | 00:11 |
| yacc | mlwane, well, you do not want it managed via NetworkManager, you want it managed via the old style Debian interfaces files. | 00:11 |
| Surjikal | Neat | 00:11 |
| Venemo | BCMM, yeah, that's what I said :) | 00:11 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, thank you, but luck isn't going to compensate for my lack of knowledge this time | 00:11 |
| BCMM | Venemo: indeed it was :) i'm too slow | 00:12 |
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| mlwane | yacc: and how do i achieve that ? | 00:12 |
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| Venemo | no problem BCMM, your explanation makes more sense. (except the part about echo. echo is not an executable.) :P | 00:12 |
| Surjikal | hahah | 00:13 |
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| Venemo | 'type echo' -> 'echo is a shell builtin' | 00:13 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG, I would have required about a week to learn this shit, but I had a single afternoon instead. | 00:13 |
| BCMM | Venemo: it doesn't have to be | 00:14 |
| alterego | good luck for you exam tomorrow Venemo :) | 00:14 |
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| Surjikal | So, anyone knows how to get sms over bluetooth working with the n900? | 00:14 |
| mlwane | yacc, i tried to add the "usb0" interface to "/etc/network/interfaces" but that didn't work | 00:14 |
| BCMM | Venemo: on a normal machine, you'll find a /bin/echo too | 00:14 |
| Venemo | alterego, honestly, I'll probably fail it. | 00:14 |
| kwtm | Wow, first time ssh'ing into my N900. What fun. I don't even have to hook up a USB cable. :) | 00:14 |
| Venemo | BCMM, interesting. there's /bin/echo on my Fedora :P | 00:15 |
| Venemo | BCMM, yet, 'type echo' says that it's a shell builtin too | 00:15 |
| BCMM | Venemo: yeah, there would be on any "ordinary" GNU/Linux system | 00:15 |
| Venemo | mhm | 00:15 |
| kwtm | Venemo: If you use a shell that doesn't have echo as a built-in, your /bin/echo is there. | 00:16 |
| BCMM | Venemo: yeah, because it's an easy thing to implement and greatly improves performance of shell scripts | 00:16 |
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| BCMM | Venemo: it's part of GNU Coreutils | 00:16 |
| Venemo | mhmm | 00:16 |
| Venemo | interesting :) | 00:16 |
| MohammadAG | part of busybox on the N900! | 00:16 |
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| BCMM | yeah, maemo has no coreutils by default | 00:16 |
| kwtm | Although I'm switching everything over to printf (which I guess wasn't there in the olden days, because I don't see how echo could offer anything that printf doesn't). | 00:17 |
| BCMM | Venemo: coreutils is the package providing stuff like cat and so on on a normal GNU system | 00:17 |
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| Venemo | BCMM, yeah, I'm aware of that :) | 00:17 |
| BCMM | other BB stuff like top and ifconfig are normally provided by other projects, though | 00:17 |
| BCMM | oh, sorry | 00:18 |
| Venemo | no problem | 00:18 |
| Venemo | :) | 00:18 |
| kwtm | Okay, found ifconfig. It's at /sbin/ifconfig, and I just have to specify the full pathname, and then I can execute it as user, even. :) | 00:18 |
| Venemo | anyway, goodbye :) | 00:18 |
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| mlwane | guys does anybody know how to share my laptop's internet with my n900 via usb ? (Ubuntu 10.10) | 00:20 |
| Surjikal | mlwane, there's a bunch of guides out there I believe. | 00:20 |
| Surjikal | I think connecting via usb will create a network. Not too sure though.. Try plugging it in and check ifconfig | 00:21 |
| mlwane | Surjikal, yeah but unfortunately none of them worked with me :( | 00:21 |
| Venemo | mlwane, why don't you just set up an ad-hoc wifi? | 00:21 |
| mlwane | ad-hoc will use a lot of power | 00:22 |
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| Venemo | who cares? | 00:22 |
| Surjikal | Is it possible to play back a sound file over a phone call? | 00:22 |
| Venemo | no | 00:22 |
| Surjikal | mlwane, yeah, you were going to plug it in anyway | 00:22 |
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| Surjikal | venemo, why not? | 00:23 |
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| pupnik | we could build a telescope to detect organic molecules on other planets | 00:24 |
| pupnik | 1.5 billion euro | 00:24 |
| mlwane | Surjikal, yeah but i want to keep it running for a long period of time and that will ruin the battery by time | 00:24 |
| MohammadAG | is there a way to play only sound from an mp4 file? | 00:24 |
| Surjikal | mlwane, I guess so.. you could always remove the battery I think. But in any case, usb tethering should work. | 00:25 |
| mlwane | Surjikal, usb tethering is not that to use the phone as a modem only ? | 00:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ruin the battery - how? | 00:29 |
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| mlwane | by keeping on recharging it all the day | 00:31 |
| Surjikal | mlwane, I thought thats what you wanted. So you want to share you pc's network connection with the n900? | 00:31 |
| mlwane | Surjikal, yes | 00:32 |
| kwtm | How do I find out the RSA key fingerprint of my N900 that I'm SSH'ing into? Somehow it asked me this time "hey are you sure there's no MitM?" but last time it didn't. | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | umm... | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | /home/user/.ssh I thin | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 00:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | It will store the key - or it should, and if it changes, will warn | 00:35 |
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| kwtm | SpeedEvil: No. It's not there. You're referring to the hashes of the key of the remote computer (which still isn't useful since it's hashed). What I'm talking about is if it warns: Hey! Are you sure this is right? The key I'm getting from the remote server is AA-BB-CC-DD-whatever. Is that correct? | 00:37 |
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| kwtm | The question is: how do you go to the remote server and check if it really is "AA-BB-CC-DD-whatever"? Where is that stored? | 00:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oh | 00:39 |
| SpeedEvil | /etc/ssh/ssh_host_key | 00:39 |
| SpeedEvil | This gets stored - along with the user key - in ~/.ssh/known hosts on your local system. | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Or something like that. | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | If either of these changes, it warns. | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I think | 00:40 |
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| kwtm | Thanks, SpeedEvil | 00:41 |
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| kwtm | I did get a permission denied, but I was able to find this command posted on the web, which does what I want ... ssh-keygen -l -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | man sshd | 00:41 |
| kwtm | accompanied by a blog posting how ridiculous it is that it takes so much trouble just to get the hostkey. | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | That should get run at first run of sshd | 00:42 |
| kwtm | I mean, I'm just trying to log in from another computer just to get things done ... by this time I've forgotten why I wanted to ssh into the N900 in the first place ... | 00:42 |
| kwtm | Oh, well, another alias to be defined... | 00:42 |
| Macer | kwtm: heh | 00:43 |
| Macer | kwtm: i've done that before ;) | 00:43 |
| Macer | installed openssh then didn't find a use for it . but then again i don't dev much on it :) | 00:43 |
| Macer | i'm sure the coder fanboys love it | 00:43 |
| yacc | mlwane, where are you stuck? | 00:43 |
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| RiD | Hi dear people :D | 02:02 |
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| lolcat | Where can I find a cross compliler with tools for N900? | 02:57 |
| lolcat | toolchain | 02:57 |
| lcuk | lolcat, scratchbox | 02:58 |
| lcuk | the normal sdk includes it :) | 02:58 |
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| lcuk | though you oculd be tough as nails and not use a cross compiler ;) | 02:58 |
| lolcat | Is there a tutorial on how to cross compile things? | 02:58 |
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| lolcat | I have to cross compile it with the toolchain for it to work. It is intended for a quite diffrent kernel. | 02:59 |
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| lolcat | lcuk: I am going to install dalvik on it | 03:04 |
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| lcuk | lolcat, cool, well have fun, the scratchbox guys did a good job | 03:05 |
| lolcat | lcuk: Lets hope it is good enough to run dalvik. | 03:06 |
| lcuk | lolcat, dalvik is fake java isn't it? | 03:07 |
| lcuk | there is hardware support for java and not being used | 03:07 |
| lolcat | Yes, dalvik is Android JVM: | 03:07 |
| lcuk | didn't that already get run before? | 03:07 |
| lolcat | On the N900? Oo | 03:08 |
| lolcat | In Maemo? | 03:08 |
| lcuk | lolcat, IDK about maemo, but on the n900 at least :) | 03:10 |
| lolcat | lcuk: I hate android OS. | 03:10 |
| lolcat | I love Maemo | 03:10 |
| lolcat | And I like spotify | 03:10 |
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| lcuk | that is good then | 03:10 |
| lcuk | but if you make everything spotty won't it look a bit odd? | 03:10 |
| lolcat | spotty? | 03:11 |
| lolcat | lcuk: ^ | 03:12 |
| lcuk | lolcat, if you love spottifying things the by definition become spotty | 03:13 |
| lolcat | I like the music | 03:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: I gather you severely misunderstood the recommended usage of PKI and ssh | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sue there's no use in defining a shortcut/alias for ssh-keygen | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure* | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: I frequently use >>ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root t900<< to log in to devices which change IP or name | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: sorry if your problem is one I never seen and my comment was off topic, but the only MitM warnings I've ever seen were when IP of remote system changed | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that'S a really rather useless function tbh, at least IMHO | 04:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (reagrding the Pb shielded helis) I learnt the SFP with all the rods exposed (no water) is sending up *massive* gamma like a flashlight. I still wonder if they ever heard about fly-by-wire and remote control, rather than risking health and life of pilots | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | really operating all sorts of vehicles isn't anything you need a human *inside*, no matter if it's airborne, tank, whatever | 04:52 |
| cehteh | sending up? .. i doubt it directs it only the containment and other shielding may prevent sending it into other directions and maybe core geometry gives upwards a little favor | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I might understand why USSR wasn't able to use that technology in 1986, but hey JP is considered the land of robots and electronics | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | spent fuel pool | 04:54 |
| cehteh | hey they had no containment and nothing at all above the core .. it was way easier reachable | 04:54 |
| cehteh | easy access technology :P | 04:54 |
| cehteh | btw japan asked for robots from germany .. | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet we love to send those | 04:55 |
| cehteh | asimo's are useless plaything ... real robots are made in germany | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | they should've asked on day0 | 04:55 |
| cehteh | well "should" .. there should be no day0 ... but | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | however putting some 6 servos into a tank isn't anything near rocket science | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | in holywood they do that all the time, for their car stunts | 04:57 |
| cehteh | getting a lot redundant extra pipes an valves there isnt either | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | source of failure | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | if mounted | 04:57 |
| cehteh | maybe .. but i dont want to imagine more failure than what currently happens | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...and I bet a heli can be operated with less than 10 servos as well | 04:58 |
| cehteh | prolly not a chinook | 04:59 |
| cehteh | these are huge .. did you ever seen one in real? | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, according to prophecies of experts the big bang will happen in now+12h or somesuch | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I hope they're wrong | 04:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OTOH AIUI all those experts were thinking and talking about the reactors only. It seems though as if the SFPs are the worse problem | 05:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | never knew you could get a core melt where's no core at all | 05:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (chinook) sure, my granny lived next to a US mini airbase, Coburg (15km to DDR) | 05:07 |
| ds3 | 15km to DDR? mighty long traces to memory :D | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | or whatever the facility was. Every once in a week there landed some of those dual rotor helis | 05:08 |
| cehteh | +++ Polizeigewerkschaft: Deutsche AKW nicht terrorsicher +++ | 05:09 |
| cehteh | [02.55 Uhr] Die Deutsche Polizeigewerkschaft hält die Atomkraftwerke in der Bundesrepublik für nicht sicher vor Terrorangriffen. | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | <yawn> back when those helis landed there, they prolly did because it was close to the iron curtain back when | 05:09 |
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| cehteh | muhaha .. as if that would be the most important concern | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it might | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | I seem to remember we had a near-GAU when some "terrorists" cut down a power pylon | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | no more connectio to grid. SCRAM. No more power. Failing generators... | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | also next stuxnet might blackout half Europe | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | cyberterrorism | 05:12 |
| cehteh | if cars would be constructed like nuklear plants then they would be extremely dangerous ... | 05:13 |
| cehteh | imagine you hit the brake at 100kmh .. and at 30kmh it just stops braking and goes over rolling | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | also losing steer servo, and never come up again. Nice when you're on a downhill road - which for a NPP you always are | 05:15 |
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| cehteh | ah something n900 related .. the device lock button (slider?) .. is that a mechanic switch or magnetic or optical? | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mech | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | and (dunno where) I seem to remember I noticed recently it bounces like hell | 05:22 |
| cehteh | mhm .. sometimes i wonder if mine gets weared out ... i know that the device sometimes reacts slowly on it under load .. but rarely it doesnt react at all without any load | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here, but I'm not sure about the load | 05:23 |
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| cehteh | i didnt disassembled my n900 yet .. but maybe some kontact-spray will help .. but needs disassembling | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | OTOH mce/bme/whatnot is notorious to lose an occasional charger-plugged signal, though /sys knows there's a charger | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, do *not* do this | 05:25 |
| cehteh | yes | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | contact spray ruins switches usually | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | believe me, I ruined several :-P | 05:26 |
| cehteh | heh works for me .. | 05:26 |
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| cehteh | i revived a lot mouses with it | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | it works like for 4 weeks, then back to original and getting worse | 05:26 |
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| cehteh | well "Kontakt 61" .. thats a special fluid for switches | 05:26 |
| cehteh | nah permanently (well years at least i can tell) | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, I *know* all sorts of contact sprays | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~joerg | 05:27 |
| infobot | i heard joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer | 05:27 |
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| cehteh | yes hence i saied Kontakt 61 (from Kontakt chemie) no other :) | 05:27 |
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| cehteh | i know that a lot others types are not good or even worse | 05:28 |
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| * DocScrutinizer makes mental note to get new canned air | 05:28 | |
| cehteh | especially for switches which have some load and then using silicone based oils .. thats perfect destruction :) | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem is a lot of switches already have that silicone oil | 05:29 |
| cehteh | you can wash that out | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | no you can't really | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll wash it on contact surface | 05:30 |
| cehteh | sufficently .. maybe not perfect | 05:30 |
| cehteh | well .. wash it out .. dry it and then apply the fluid i mentioned before | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, for N900 it won't help at all | 05:30 |
| cehteh | that really worked for me .. always | 05:31 |
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| cehteh | dunno .. i prolly wait until the switch fails completely before repairing it | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | does it get worse? | 05:31 |
| cehteh | exactly :) | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 05:32 |
| cehteh | well for some contacts i apply it for new equipment ... | 05:32 |
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| cehteh | basically anything which has some danger to get humid but not accumulate dust | 05:33 |
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| ds3 | wtf... local news must be run by pure morons | 07:03 |
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| Mykhal | just got simple mobile for my nokia n900, but can't get internet to work. can anyone help? | 07:52 |
| slonopotamus | yep, your mobile provider manual | 07:53 |
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| Mykhal | you're such a wit. bet all the girls luv u | 07:54 |
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| chx | You are such a nice person to say that someoen who helps you for free. You are lucky i am not an op.... | 07:55 |
| Mykhal | we're all lucky you're not an op | 07:56 |
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| Mykhal | and that wasn't very much help at all | 07:57 |
| slonopotamus | all your questions were answered. | 07:58 |
| Mykhal | yeah, ok. thanx | 07:59 |
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| Jade | hi | 08:16 |
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| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 08:42 | |
| timeless_w7ip | one-tree != onetree | 08:42 |
| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/legal-experts-address-Android-GPL-issues/ <-- hmmm | 08:42 |
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| lolcat | How do I charge a li-ion battery manually? | 08:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: some of us read /. yesterday | 08:46 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: do note that "void main (int argc, char* argv);" should not be copyrightable | 08:49 |
| ruskie | agreed | 08:50 |
| * timeless_w7ip frowns | 08:50 | |
| timeless_w7ip | so i woke up this morning to discover 4 emails from cron | 08:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | telling me i couldn't spell the name of my script correctly | 08:50 |
| ruskie | rofl | 08:50 |
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| lofty306 | hahaha | 08:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | to be fair, i didn't write or name the script, someone else somewhere else did | 08:50 |
| lofty306 | :) | 08:54 |
| ruskie | timeless_w7ip, but you do agree that all that work required someones creativity and effort to write up so they do have a copyright on it... | 08:57 |
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| timeless_w7ip | no | 08:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | not like that anyway | 08:59 |
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| timeless_w7ip | for instance, i claim that a list of words that are spelled correctly in English is not copyrightable | 08:59 |
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| ruskie | so basically you don't consider books copyrightable? | 09:00 |
| ruskie | which is a list of words | 09:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | i don't think 'effort' is a criterion for copyright | 09:00 |
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| ab | timeless_w7ip, U.S.Code Title 17 Section 117(a)(1) covers this Android case | 09:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | it could take someone a lot of effort to write "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ...." | 09:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | but that doesn't make it copyrightable | 09:00 |
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| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: by "list of words that are spelled correctly", i mean literally a list of correctly spelled words, no repeats | 09:04 |
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| timeless_w7ip | roughly the thing that would enable a spellchecker to decide that 'teh' is not correctly spelled | 09:04 |
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| kerio | you mean /usr/share/something/dict? | 09:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | all i have is /usr/share/bash-compeletion/dict | 09:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | so not that :) | 09:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | .. /usr/share/dict/words | 09:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | yeah, a file like that | 09:11 |
| kerio | whatevs | 09:11 |
| kerio | well you can probably find that file at some point in pi | 09:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | similarly, i would hope that a sorted list of books would also fail copyright | 09:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | the reason that both should fail is that they are not 'creative' | 09:12 |
| kerio | i'd say that anything that can be turned into a number can't be subject to a copyright | 09:12 |
| ruskie | there is a database copyright... but I believe it has specific requirements for a work to be considered a copyrightable database | 09:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: database copyright is the EU's way of making everything copyrightable | 09:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | and that's absolutely insane | 09:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | the EU deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth just for that | 09:13 |
| kerio | timeless_w7ip: how are software patents working for you? | 09:13 |
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| timeless_w7ip | kerio: much less disturbing than the eu database copyright | 09:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | i could take them or leave them | 09:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | heck, i would take them if that's what was required to get rid of the eu database copyright | 09:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'd rather *not* take them | 09:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | but... | 09:14 |
| ruskie | timeless_w7ip, russia also has it ;) | 09:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | on the scale of evil, they are insignificant when compared to the db c | 09:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: when i get out of here, you can have some of my sympathies | 09:15 |
| ruskie | erm? | 09:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'm in .eu | 09:16 |
| ruskie | ahh | 09:16 |
| ruskie | if there has not been substantial investment (which need not be financial), the database will not be protected <-- so technically not everything is copyrightable | 09:17 |
| ruskie | database rights specifically protect the "qualitatively and/or quantitatively [a] substantial investment in either the obtaining, verification or presentation of the contents": | 09:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: db c is designed to allow corporations to sue everyone else | 09:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | and to prevent smaller groups from claiming it | 09:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you're a single person, perhaps you can't claim "substantial investment" | 09:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | and thus your work is inelligible :) | 09:19 |
| ruskie | sure you can... inventoring all the books in my hous is a substantial investment of my time | 09:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | but basically between all of the or's in the clause pretty much everything is db c | 09:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: and if a second person comes in and makes an inventory | 09:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | they're infringing on your db? | 09:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | that's the stuff stupidity is made of | 09:20 |
| ruskie | no they are infringing on my property ;) | 09:20 |
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| ruskie | but I see what you mean | 09:20 |
| ruskie | they made some stupid calls there | 09:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | some? | 09:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | the entire concept is stupid | 09:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | sorry | 09:20 |
| timeless_w7ip | a work can be creative | 09:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | an index of a work is not creative | 09:21 |
| ruskie | what do you call openstreetmap then? | 09:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | it can be done by an indexer, whicih is not a creative process | 09:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | openstreetmap is a collection | 09:21 |
| ruskie | aka a database | 09:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | individual elements in the collection may be creative and thus should perhaps be elligible for copyright | 09:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | the collection itself should not | 09:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | roughly speaking... | 09:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | the complete works of william shakespeare should not be entitled to c | 09:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | but each individual work of william shakespeare should be ellligible | 09:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | s/lll/ll/ | 09:22 |
| infobot | timeless_w7ip meant: but each individual work of william shakespeare should be elligible | 09:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: the other problem w/ db c is that it has a provision for ensuring infinite copyright duration | 09:23 |
| ruskie | true | 09:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | you can touch the database every 16 years or so | 09:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | and the copyright will never expire | 09:23 |
| ruskie | imho corporations shouldn't be allowed to have copyrights or patents | 09:23 |
| kerio | like a cron job? | 09:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | kerio: pretty much | 09:23 |
| kerio | cool | 09:23 |
| robbiethe1st | ^^ | 09:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | although on the scale of 16 years, you'll probably need to migrate the cron job more often than it runs! | 09:23 |
| kerio | 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 touch mycopyrights | 09:24 |
| ruskie | lol | 09:24 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oops, time for work | 09:29 |
| ruskie | have fun | 09:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | <yawn> | 09:45 |
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| jacekowski | hmm, jabber is broken on my phone for some reason | 10:06 |
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| jacekowski | it works on desktop | 10:06 |
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| ruskie | broken how? | 10:18 |
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| pupnik_ | wish i could tilt the cam on n900 | 10:43 |
| pupnik_ | take pictures while holding the device normal angle | 10:44 |
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| ruskie | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks <-- fun | 10:49 |
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| robbiethe1st | Hm, that'll actually be good. It means that we can now blame -anyone- disagreeing with us(especially a majority) as astroturfing shills! | 10:55 |
| lofty306 | lol | 10:55 |
| lofty306 | heh | 10:55 |
| robbiethe1st | People may also start watching IPs - There's only so many VPS hosts | 10:56 |
| robbiethe1st | But, either way, it should be good that this news is out there - Take -any- message, no matter how many people agree with it, with a grain of salt. | 10:57 |
| ruskie | always do | 10:58 |
| ruskie | always have | 10:58 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea, but not everyone does | 10:58 |
| ruskie | note: tor can do something similar though you need to do a lot of manual footwork... | 10:59 |
| ruskie | as for watching ips... with ipv6... I wonder how fun that will be... | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | <yawn> | 11:00 |
| ruskie | morning Doc | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo | 11:00 |
| * ruskie hands Doc some grass to chew on... | 11:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~moo | 11:01 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 11:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh 15 times you do... | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I am cow, I eat my son, this is when BSE begun | 11:04 |
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| ruskie | you seem bored | 11:05 |
| robbiethe1st | heh | 11:05 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:05 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh, that reminds me: can anyone explain quickly why we can't use a newer kernel on the n900? | 11:05 |
| robbiethe1st | I know there's a good reason, but I forget | 11:05 |
| ruskie | I thought it was some of the drivers | 11:06 |
| robbiethe1st | Aren't they userspace drivers or something? | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: /sys changed | 11:06 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh | 11:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also some libs might not feel happy with new kernel | 11:07 |
| ruskie | would be nice if that actually got fixed somehow | 11:07 |
| ruskie | *wishful thinking* | 11:07 |
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| lofty306 | well there looking at just barriing the nuke plant in sand and concrete | 11:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~spell barriing | 11:23 |
| infobot | possible spellings for barriing: barring baring burring bearing Barron Bering barrings bring barraging barreling barren boring barbing barfing barging barking earring jarring marring parring tarring warring Bahrain Behring berrying | 11:23 |
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| lofty306 | burry ing | 11:25 |
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| lofty306 | bbbury | 11:25 |
| lofty306 | bury | 11:25 |
| lofty306 | totaly forggot how to spell that oone | 11:25 |
| lofty306 | burying | 11:26 |
| ruskie | rofl | 11:30 |
| tybollt | ~spank | 11:31 |
| tybollt | ~moo | 11:31 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 11:31 | |
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| umm-n900 | hello all | 11:32 |
| umm-n900 | \o | 11:32 |
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| Venemo | heya | 11:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~spank tybollt | 11:52 |
| * infobot bends tybollt over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on tybollt's pasty white buttocks. | 11:52 | |
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| umm-n900 | lol | 12:05 |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: :D | 12:07 |
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| pupnik_ | find . -iname "*.mp3" -mtime -4 -exec mplayer \-shuffle \-quiet {} + | 12:23 |
| pupnik_ | all you need is $ | 12:23 |
| pupnik_ | all you need is $, $, $. $ is all you need | 12:23 |
| ruskie | erm... | 12:23 |
| pupnik_ | [beatles] | 12:23 |
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| Corsac | all you need is ❤ | 12:24 |
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| yacc | Out of curiosity, where does the n900 store all my IM accounts? | 12:35 |
| yacc | And the history database of communication events? | 12:36 |
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| alterego | Anyone know if QtMobility contacts works on maemo? | 12:43 |
| alterego | yacc: history is in .rtcomm | 12:43 |
| xxtjaxx | Uhm was there a way to extend ovimaps to say where to go along? | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 12:43 |
| alterego | yacc: accounts: ~/.rtcomm-accounts | 12:44 |
| alterego | yacc: history: ~/.rtcomm-eventlogger | 12:44 |
| xxtjaxx | hm shit is there anyway to use it like a navigfational device? | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | marble | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | maep | 12:44 |
| alterego | There's a thread on t.m.o about modding ovi maps to do turn based navigation actually. | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | that too | 12:45 |
| xxtjaxx | alterego: link? | 12:45 |
| lcuk | \o morning | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo lcuk | 12:45 |
| alterego | xxtjaxx: search? | 12:45 |
| alterego | Ik don't have a link .. | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | search in HAM for map is easy | 12:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err s/maep/mappero/ | 12:48 |
| lofty306 | :P | 12:48 |
| lcuk | all this talk of maps | 12:50 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, NokiaCareers have just posted an opening | 12:50 |
| * lcuk gets it | 12:50 | |
| lcuk | RES00000109 #jobs at #nokia Visual/Animation Designer (web: maps.ovi.com) http://bit.ly/gk4OuQ | 12:50 |
| lcuk | http://twitter.com/NokiaCareers/status/48687476373598208 | 12:50 |
| lcuk | @NokiaCareers Re: RES00000109 Connect with Damian Waradzyn, author of Maemo CloudGPS application. http://bit.ly/eSBVjO | 12:50 |
| lcuk | http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/48689865394626560 | 12:50 |
| lcuk | err crap, meant to only paste the top line | 12:51 |
| lofty306 | hehe | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, anim/visual is your domain :-D | 12:51 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, see the link I posted to Damians work | 12:51 |
| lcuk | he has really nice slick ux :) | 12:51 |
| lcuk | especially regarding rotation | 12:52 |
| lcuk | the map gently rotates and the UI slides out and back in with ease | 12:52 |
| lcuk | it is amazingly simple and effective | 12:52 |
| lcuk | about 1:48 in the youtube video | 12:52 |
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| alterego | I was implementing something similar for columbus 2 :) | 13:02 |
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| lcuk | alterego, sure, get cloudgps and see if you can reproduce it as a standard component | 13:03 |
| lofty306 | hmmm marble aint bad reminds me of what was that app on the 770 open street? | 13:09 |
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| jhb | xxtjaxx: on extending maps with voice: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66985 | 13:22 |
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| xxtjaxx | jhb: thanks! | 13:26 |
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| OkropNick | Anyone knows application for drawing tracks with waypoints for N900? It would be usable to have something like Garmin eTrex in N900 | 14:26 |
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| alterego | OkropNick: Columbus draws live tracks, but I've yet to publish the next version that can import. | 14:33 |
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| OkropNick | alterego: thank you for reply | 14:34 |
| alterego | np | 14:35 |
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| OkropNick | alterego: if you add there import/export functionality - it will be perfect! | 14:44 |
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| alterego | Well it already exports, nmea data. | 14:44 |
| alterego | OkropNick: I'll make a release in the next week :) | 14:45 |
| OkropNick | alterego: yes, you're right. It has one of best interfaces from all applications that I've seen for N900 - realy good job :) | 14:46 |
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| OkropNick | It's sad that I'm just poor PHP coder - I have to change it finally :| | 14:47 |
| alterego | OkropNick: thank you very much :) | 14:47 |
| alterego | Heh, web apps are the future apparently | 14:47 |
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| OkropNick | good for me :) | 14:48 |
| alterego | Well, I do web dev too :P | 14:48 |
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| OkropNick | :) | 14:48 |
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| ZogG | ruskie, ping | 15:12 |
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| ngpunkt | has anyone tried to set up mutt @maemo (on the n900)? i don't find getmail+procmail pkgs which i need for my pop3-mailaccount (but i think about changing the mailservice) | 15:23 |
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| * lcuk tickled by this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71158 | 15:51 | |
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| alterego | Yeah, me too :d | 15:55 |
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| GAN900 | Why is Apple seemingly the only company capable of putting computers together with USB ports that don't look like they came out of the cheapest factory in China. . . . | 15:55 |
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| crashanddie | lol lcuk | 15:56 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, some of them are going all CSI in proving "NOT SHOOPED!!!!11" | 15:56 |
| lcuk | yeah, hence the amusement | 15:56 |
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| crashanddie | tmo is seemingly becoming a new 4chan board. | 15:59 |
| khertan | Hello | 15:59 |
| crashanddie | (meaning: tmo is improving) | 15:59 |
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| khertan | someone know how notification in small red icon with a small number to notify the user that new mail is incoming in mail.app ? | 16:00 |
| khertan | (same principe on some iphone app icons to signal new things is available) | 16:02 |
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| crashanddie | khertan, overlay text onto icon and generate image | 16:02 |
| crashanddie | then update icon | 16:02 |
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| khertan | ApplicationBadge | 16:03 |
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| khertan | crashanddie: i know how to do ... i was looking for the name :) | 16:04 |
| GAN900 | khertan, Adium should have the code in their source. | 16:05 |
| khertan | thx anywas | 16:05 |
| khertan | thx anyway | 16:05 |
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| jonwil | Can someone explain what Harmattan actually is? Is it just meego-on-n900? Is it bits of Maemo and bits of MeeGo merged into one? | 16:10 |
| ngpunkt | can anyone recommend me a cheap or free+secure(no googlish)+imap webmailservice?did use inbox.com+gmail | 16:11 |
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| Corsac | jonwil: who said harmattan would run on n900? | 16:12 |
| khertan | Corsac: Who said harmattan would run ? | 16:12 |
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| jonwil | I guess I must have been reading too much into comments on blogs etc | 16:12 |
| Corsac | that too :) | 16:12 |
| khertan | :) | 16:12 |
| jonwil | Trusting Engadget for reliable news about anything in the noila-linux ecosystem is probably not a good idea | 16:13 |
| jonwil | nokia | 16:13 |
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| kerio | engadget is "zomgapplereleasedsomethingzomg" | 16:14 |
| khertan | jonwil: Trusting Engadget for reliable news about anything is not a good idea | 16:14 |
| Venemo | jonwil, Harmattan is Maemo 6 base OS plus a Qt-based UI similar to MeeGo Handset, also based on MTF (aka. DUI) | 16:17 |
| jonwil | What makes maemo6 different from maemo5 then (other than what device it may run on)? | 16:18 |
| chem|st | jonwil: transitional to meego 1 | 16:18 |
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| Venemo | jonwil, not much. it still uses Debian packaging with updated stuff. ask timeless or thiago about details. they may tell you more | 16:19 |
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| jonwil | in any case it sounds like none of Maemo6/Harmattan/MeeGo/etc work is going to help those of us with N900s running Maemo who just want better software and a few features that other phones have had for years but the N900 does not | 16:19 |
| Venemo | jonwil, we don't really know more | 16:20 |
| chem|st | jonwil: some of the backend structure is changed, as venemo said still .deb but core parts of meego integrated | 16:20 |
| chem|st | different kind of trackerd | 16:20 |
| chem|st | jonwil: reading what features? | 16:20 |
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| jonwil | Cell Broadcast SMS support would be nice for those of us with carriers who send such SMSs (mine does) | 16:21 |
| chem|st | and n900 is the development platform | 16:21 |
| chem|st | my previous phone couldn't do that... | 16:21 |
| jonwil | My previous Motorola could do it. As could my mums old B&W screen Nokia dumbphone | 16:22 |
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| chem|st | all other phones I know cannot do alot of stuff you can do with n900s | 16:22 |
| Venemo | chem|st ++ | 16:22 |
| Venemo | kerio ++ | 16:22 |
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| jonwil | yeah the N900 is a great phone | 16:22 |
| chem|st | jonwil: actualy it is exactly what I want | 16:23 |
| Venemo | chem|st ++ | 16:23 |
| chem|st | the only thing I would add is a compass (for hardware) | 16:23 |
| khertan | for me it s ll be a mix between the n900 and the n810 | 16:24 |
| khertan | :) | 16:24 |
| chem|st | khertan: what does the n810 have the n900 doesn't? (had no 810...) | 16:24 |
| Venemo | chem|st, bigger screen, bigger keyboard | 16:24 |
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| jonwil | Be nice if I had more control over which networks (WiFi and cellular) that my N900 connected to | 16:25 |
| Venemo | chem|st, better quality build materials, some hw buttons that the N900 doesn't have, and handwriting recognition (also not in N900) | 16:25 |
| chem|st | Venemo: sure a n910 would do great... | 16:26 |
| * jonwil wonders if M6/Harmattan is going to be using ofono or the old crap cell stack | 16:26 | |
| Venemo | jonwil, my guess would be any random closed-source shit | 16:27 |
| khertan | chem|st: larger screen !!! | 16:27 |
| khertan | chem|st: hardware button ! | 16:27 |
| khertan | and a pad | 16:27 |
| chem|st | khertan: if any nokian wants my design I could make many CMs happy^^ | 16:27 |
| khertan | CMs ? | 16:28 |
| chem|st | communitymembers | 16:28 |
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| khertan | :) | 16:28 |
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| chem|st | khertan: the n900 is a waste of space | 16:28 |
| Venemo | chem|st, waste of space? | 16:29 |
| chem|st | it looks like they used the prebuild devel PCB and just put another shell around.... | 16:29 |
| Venemo | PCB? | 16:29 |
| chem|st | the hardware... | 16:30 |
| Venemo | mhm | 16:30 |
| khertan | where did you see waste of space | 16:30 |
| khertan | what will you change ? | 16:31 |
| chem|st | there is at least space for another 64gb memory and a compass | 16:31 |
| khertan | where too ? | 16:32 |
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| khertan | s/too/to ? | 16:32 |
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| chem|st | just talking sizes... | 16:32 |
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| chem|st | has someone pictures handy`? | 16:32 |
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| chem|st | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/ | 16:33 |
| khertan | yeah but where will you put the compass ? | 16:33 |
| khertan | i didn't see any freespace | 16:34 |
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| lcuk | there is a spacer component in n900 (structural probably, but it is certainly removable and not actually part of the chassis | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | There is huge amounts of free space. | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Compass is ~4mm*4mm*1mm | 16:36 |
| chem|st | khertan: frontside I fit 2-3 backside 1-2 | 16:36 |
| SpeedEvil | 'waste' of space - there needs to be room to allow stuff to flex | 16:36 |
| khertan | SpeedEvil: hum ... i think it was larger ... | 16:37 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: sure but you don't need space like 2x4cm for flexibility | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9441 | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | khertan: | 16:38 |
| lcuk | khertan, it is not a Jack Sparrow Compass! http://images.wikia.com/pirates/images/f/fa/Piratecompass600.jpg | 16:38 |
| lcuk | Yarrr! | 16:38 |
| chem|st | and replace the cheap material and you safe a lot more | 16:38 |
| khertan | oh ... dude ... i think it was ! | 16:38 |
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| khertan | this is a reliable : http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://img.alibaba.com/photo/249621099/Marine_Magnetic_Compass.jpg&imgrefurl=http://french.alibaba.com/product-gs/marine-magnetic-compass-249621099.html&usg=__MBmDk0lx3lcDMNOryY9qbU9XgDU=&h=486&w=498&sz=16&hl=fr&start=0&sig2=S_4ZFwz79XQeJbRStMif-Q&zoom=1&tbnid=0ZlorPKYLtdkeM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=147&ei=kW6DTaGWDciyhAfzn6C-BA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmagnetic%2Bcompass%26um%3D1%26hl% | 16:39 |
| khertan | 3Dfr%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D917%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C426&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=542&oei=kW6DTaGWDciyhAfzn6C-BA&page=1&ndsp=45&ved=1t:429,r:42,s:0&tx=118&ty=24&biw=1680&bih=917 | 16:39 |
| khertan | ouche sorry for the link | 16:39 |
| khertan | http://img.alibaba.com/photo/249621099/Marine_Magnetic_Compass.jpg | 16:39 |
| khertan | ^^ a real reliable compass | 16:40 |
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| lcuk | khertan, is that a compass in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me? | 16:40 |
| chem|st | a design where you use needed parts as connection between housing materials is not common yet but used as antenna for iphone4 for example | 16:41 |
| khertan | lcuk: :) | 16:41 |
| khertan | about that ... chem|st where is the antenna on this picture ? there isn't ? | 16:42 |
| khertan | and the wifi antenna ? | 16:42 |
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| chem|st | the antennas are the bottom and the top edge of your back | 16:44 |
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| chem|st | well side bottom and top of the devices back, on the pics only the top one is disected | 16:45 |
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| khertan | thx | 16:46 |
| chem|st | gtg bye gents | 16:47 |
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| lolcat | "We have recently received a Forum Nokia Launchpad membership application from you and would like to thank you for your interest towards our developer programs. Since Nokia’s new strategy and the alliance with Microsoft was announced in February, we have been flooded with membership applications from developers interested in Launchpad membership. Due to the vast number of applications, the review times are considerably longer than usually. | 17:00 |
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| lofty306 | lol lolcat | 17:03 |
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| Venemo | lolcat, wtf is that? | 17:12 |
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| andre__ | a quote. | 17:18 |
| GAN900 | lolcat, bullshit. | 17:20 |
| lolcat | GAN900: Bullshit? | 17:22 |
| lolcat | Venemo: Nokia sent me an answer for my developer account or whatever, I read an article about them giving away phones | 17:23 |
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| alterego | lolcat: did they say no? :) | 17:23 |
| lolcat | They said that | 17:23 |
| lolcat | So I guess I will have to wait | 17:24 |
| GAN900 | lolcat, I smell marketing at work. | 17:25 |
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| alterego | I applied for that ages ago | 17:29 |
| alterego | I never got anything :/ | 17:29 |
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| alterego | Oh hang on | 17:33 |
| alterego | I just got an email from 'forumnokialaunchpad' | 17:33 |
| alterego | Pfft, I appleid for that months ago | 17:34 |
| alterego | I'd actually completely forgotten until now :D | 17:34 |
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| lolcat | Did you get approved? | 17:39 |
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| khertan | lol many developper ... mouarf | 18:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaScyfSHc-Y&NR=1 All that is old is topical again. | 19:00 |
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| Jartza | whaaaat | 19:03 |
| Jartza | nokia will release maemo 6 phone? :o | 19:03 |
| andre__ | Jartza, IMO Nokia calls it "MeeGo-based", some Intel folks call it "Maemo 6", and we will all probably see in the end how meegoish it is | 19:04 |
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| MohammadAG | wth is error: void value not ignored as it ought to be | 19:11 |
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| GAN900 | MeeGo N | 19:12 |
| GAN900 | andre__, Intel folks calling it Maemo 6 is just cruel. | 19:13 |
| MohammadAG | oh nvm | 19:13 |
| * MohammadAG facepalms | 19:13 | |
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| OkropNick | anyone knows where N900 stores sugestions for word autocompletion? (using onscreen keyboard) | 20:32 |
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| * slonopotamus wonders who are all these 409 people | 20:42 | |
| slonopotamus | and why they hang here | 20:43 |
| piggz | slonopotamus: i have an n900, and i program for it! | 20:44 |
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| piggz | seems like a good enough reason to me | 20:44 |
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| * slonopotamus programs ON his :P | 20:44 | |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, what do you write though! | 20:45 |
| slonopotamus | was hacking sflphone recently | 20:46 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, was build/compile time an issue? | 20:46 |
| slonopotamus | nope | 20:47 |
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| slonopotamus | n900 cpu is nice, especially @1ghz | 20:47 |
| lcuk | hah | 20:47 |
| * lcuk just doing MeeGo comparisons of build time | 20:47 | |
| slonopotamus | and don't start that shit about lifetime shorteting | 20:48 |
| kerio | slonopotamus: :< | 20:48 |
| lcuk | and so far Maemo is taking a whole extra minute to build stuff | 20:48 |
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| lcuk | on same machine | 20:48 |
| slonopotamus | s/ting/ning/ | 20:48 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: and don't start that shit about lifetime shortening | 20:48 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, I am just trying to compare/contrast the write speed things | 20:48 |
| slonopotamus | dunno about n900, n8x0 kernel had explicit delays to slow down mmc accesses | 20:49 |
| lcuk | those were optimisations in waiting. | 20:51 |
| MohammadAG | grr, can't figure out why a window's causing my mediaplayer to segfault | 20:52 |
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| FIQ|n900 | segfault :D | 20:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | the most informative error that exists | 20:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | "blablaprogramoutputSegmentation fault." | 20:59 |
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| lcuk | gdb MohammadAG | 21:04 |
| lcuk | r | 21:04 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, not that helpful | 21:04 |
| lcuk | bt | 21:05 |
| lcuk | why? | 21:05 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=H8NciNYb | 21:05 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not creating any layouts outside designer | 21:06 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, what was the app doing at the time? | 21:06 |
| MohammadAG | nothing, the window is just there | 21:06 |
| MohammadAG | it's not connected to any signals | 21:06 |
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| MohammadAG | actually, it is, but they don't have to do with layouts | 21:07 |
| MohammadAG | http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/radionowplayingwindow.cpp#line19 | 21:08 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, it is happening when you close it? | 21:11 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, yes | 21:14 |
| MohammadAG | in the destructor, obviously :) | 21:14 |
| lcuk | so it is not just sitting there | 21:15 |
| MohammadAG | the destructor's only deleting the UI | 21:16 |
| MohammadAG | which is done with Qt Designer | 21:16 |
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| MohammadAG | so I'm guessing this is a bug in it | 21:16 |
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| lcuk | what about the timer you started? | 21:17 |
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| MohammadAG | that's only fired when you click the volume button | 21:19 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not touching that, the window is 3 stacked windows deep and the mediaplayer segfaults right when you open -> close it | 21:20 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, then don't close it. | 21:22 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, lol | 21:24 |
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| lcuk | slonopotamus, | 21:32 |
| lcuk | from what I can gather, MeeGo filesystem is quite substantially faster than same machine running Maemo (at least for the tests I just ran) | 21:32 |
| lcuk | running "time make" on same codebase in Maemo and MeeGo o_O: | 21:32 |
| lcuk | MeeGo: | 21:32 |
| lcuk | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/meego/svn_tab/libliqbase/src' | 21:32 |
| lcuk | real2m43.337s | 21:32 |
| lcuk | Maemo: | 21:32 |
| lcuk | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/user/svn_tab/libliqbase/src' | 21:32 |
| lcuk | real4m 28.92s | 21:33 |
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| ShadowJK | lcuk: is that on flash or harddrive? | 21:39 |
| ShadowJK | (looks like same magnitude of difference as I saw in comparing btrfs vs ext3 on flash) | 21:39 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, that is on my n900 | 21:40 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, same media? | 21:40 |
| lcuk | and using different places on the filesystem | 21:40 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, MeeGo is on a C2 4gb external card | 21:40 |
| lcuk | the maemo results are on different places on its own filesystem | 21:40 |
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| lcuk | but location within maemo did not appear to make a difference | 21:41 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah it makes sense. iirc there was only 2X difference between btrfs and ext3 when I benchmarked it a year ago | 21:41 |
| ShadowJK | what brand of card? | 21:42 |
| lcuk | can tell you in a minute | 21:43 |
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| lcuk | just checking something else | 21:43 |
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| ShadowJK | btw if Maemo is running from internal Nand, with swap and your working directory on emmc, it would have an advantage vs MeeGo on microsd. However, if MeeGo on microsd is using swap on emmc, I would say MeeGo has a benefit especially if compiling C++ stuff | 21:45 |
| ShadowJK | Just saying that the spreading of IO load across the 3 possible devices can have bigger effect than the speeds of the underlying media or speed of filesystem | 21:46 |
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| puzzled | hi | 21:47 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: MMC raid array? =) | 21:47 |
| lcuk | lol | 21:47 |
| puzzled | does anyone know where openssh puts logs on the N900? /var/log/ is pretty much empty | 21:48 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, probably harmful to performance :-) | 21:49 |
| ShadowJK | puzzled, install syslogd (or searcg for syslog) from sdk-tools repo, reboot | 21:49 |
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| puzzled | ShadowJK: thanks | 21:50 |
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| MohammadAG | fixed the bastard | 21:53 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Ok, Raid0 | 22:00 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, MeeGo uses the external MMC card for everything | 22:01 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, probably harmful to performance :-) | 22:03 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, I have a hard time construdtiong a summary of whether IO loads were equally distributed in both test cases :-) | 22:03 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, do you know any real benchmark tools which can give real results? | 22:05 |
| lcuk | because ali1234 has similar questions | 22:05 |
| * lcuk was just curious to see this case | 22:05 | |
| ShadowJK | compiling isn't a very bad test | 22:07 |
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| ShadowJK | but running a benchmark on a filesystem+drive while the OS has its files and/or swap there will make the results different | 22:10 |
| ShadowJK | sometimes much different :-) | 22:11 |
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| vi____ | GOD DAMMIT | 22:13 |
| vi____ | i need some help | 22:13 |
| vi____ | backupmenu | 22:14 |
| vi____ | has an SSH and a serial console function | 22:14 |
| vi____ | how the fuck do I use them | 22:14 |
| vi____ | whenever I use serial console I get the error: | 22:14 |
| RST38h | 11 | 22:15 |
| piggz | does the ovi map loader from symbian also load maps onto the n900? | 22:16 |
| vi____ | login: cannot run /bin/bash: No such file or directory | 22:17 |
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| vi____ | whenever I try USB SSH it says password incorrect | 22:17 |
| vi____ | WTF am I missing | 22:17 |
| vi____ | How can I access rootfs? | 22:17 |
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| vi____ | please for the love of god somone help me | 22:17 |
| vi____ | somone | 22:18 |
| vi____ | anyone | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | btw, while my own tests showed btrfs as twice as fast as ext3, nilfs2 was twice as fast as btrfs :) | 22:18 |
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| vi____ | I am at the edge here | 22:18 |
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| vi____ | can somone please answer me? | 22:19 |
| RST38h | is nilfs2 write-only? | 22:19 |
| ShadowJK | but nilfs2 is a bit too batteryhungry. | 22:19 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, no? | 22:19 |
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| RST38h | ok, the name is weird =) | 22:20 |
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| vi____ | so no one knows huh? | 22:21 |
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| vi____ | please dont feel pressured into answering a bro in distress here | 22:23 |
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| ShadowJK | vi____, no idea, but if this thing worked at some point, but no longer works, I'd assume something happened in between, and you telling us what that was could help | 22:23 |
| ShadowJK | if this "backupmenu" thing relies on sh and sshd from rootfs and merely provides a convenient way to bypass the usual startup procedure and directly launch sh on serial port, or sshd on network, then I'd say messing up the rootfs would make those things stop work | 22:24 |
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| ShadowJK | but I don't really know how backupmenu is built | 22:24 |
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| MohammadAG | preinit script | 22:27 |
| ShadowJK | right so, damaged rootfs can disable functionality of backupmenu | 22:29 |
| vi____ | backupmenu is not broken | 22:30 |
| vi____ | there is a corrupt file that is preventing the phone from booting | 22:30 |
| vi____ | I should be able to just ssh into the phone but neither console or SSH FUCKINGWELL WORK | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | and what file is this? | 22:31 |
| vi____ | etc/systemui.xml | 22:31 |
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| MohammadAG | right, save yourself the time and kill the watchdog | 22:32 |
| ruskie | hmm disconnected the n900 @06:30 in the morning... and have been playing music non-stop until 21:00 and of that atleast 4 hours was running through the fm transmiter... and it was in the red when I plugged it back in... | 22:32 |
| vi____ | why? | 22:32 |
| vi____ | what will this do? | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG | flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG | fix the file, then flasher-3.5 --disable-rd-mode | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG | kill the watchdog | 22:33 |
| vi____ | but the phone wont even boot | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG | phone will no longer reboot if a critical process dies | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG | (you know, how all linux systems handle dead processes) | 22:34 |
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| vi____ | It doesnt matter now | 22:34 |
| MohammadAG | well, if it's only systemui, then it will if you kill the watchdog | 22:34 |
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| vi____ | I made a backup with BUmenu | 22:34 |
| MohammadAG | stop being stubborn and do what I said :P | 22:34 |
| vi____ | and edited the offending file | 22:34 |
| vi____ | then tried to restore | 22:35 |
| vi____ | it freaked out with a tar 2 error | 22:35 |
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| vi____ | now the thing is fucked and wont even go to BUmenu | 22:35 |
| vi____ | FFS | 22:35 |
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| vi____ | now i have to reflash | 22:36 |
| vi____ | FFS | 22:36 |
| vi____ | FFS | 22:36 |
| vi____ | FFS | 22:36 |
| alterego | no need to spam .. | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | dude | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | stop spamming | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | meh | 22:37 |
| Proteous | it's always funny when people mess around with their phones kernel and then get all worked up when the need to reflash | 22:37 |
| vi____ | STFU man | 22:37 |
| vi____ | twho even mentioned the kernel | 22:37 |
| Proteous | either your phone is a plaything to experiment on or it's something you want to stay working | 22:37 |
| vi____ | well, I hardly thought an XML error would cripple the thing | 22:38 |
| ShadowJK | Remember the full tar error? | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | well, I gave you a solution, you decided to ignore it and fuck with the filesystem | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | good luck | 22:38 |
| Proteous | heh | 22:38 |
| vi____ | I appreciate your help | 22:38 |
| vi____ | I did it before you suggested it | 22:38 |
| vi____ | thank you anyway | 22:38 |
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| ShadowJK | vi____, instead of writing all caps, can you try remember what the tar error was? | 22:40 |
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| ZogG_w | hey | 22:42 |
| RST38h | moo. | 22:42 |
| ZogG_w | RST38h: have u seen impad 2 ? =) | 22:45 |
| ZogG_w | lol | 22:45 |
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| RST38h | nah | 22:45 |
| MohammadAG | dsme is retarded tbh | 22:47 |
| MohammadAG | it shouldn't reboot if it already did 3+ times | 22:47 |
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| ZogG_w | dsme? | 22:47 |
| ZogG_w | what is dsme? | 22:47 |
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| MohammadAG | software watchdog | 22:49 |
| ZogG_w | the one that announce u about updates? | 22:49 |
| MohammadAG | while true; do killall hildon-desktop && sleep 1; done, watch the device reboot in less than 10 secs | 22:49 |
| ZogG_w | MohammadAG: is icons for python apps bug was reported? | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG | (unless you killed the watchdog) | 22:50 |
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| MohammadAG | um, no | 22:50 |
| ZogG_w | MohammadAG: for cssu | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG | the one that reboots the device when a system app dies | 22:50 |
| ZogG_w | nope | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG | what bug | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG | err, start over | 22:50 |
| ZogG_w | the one that apps don't start from desktop icons | 22:51 |
| ZogG_w | after last updates thye stop working | 22:51 |
| ZogG_w | thought it was app releated | 22:51 |
| ZogG_w | but as ther are several apps | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG | DrLaunch or normal shortcuts? | 22:51 |
| ZogG_w | normal | 22:51 |
| ZogG_w | even from dash | 22:51 |
| ZogG_w | and from terminal it works fine | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG | any python app? | 22:52 |
| ZogG_w | papertoss, bouncebounce | 22:52 |
| ZogG_w | and now i remember somebody had trouble with heroes port | 22:52 |
| MohammadAG | menu launches bouncebounce fine for me | 22:52 |
| ZogG_w | it doesn't for me and some other guys | 22:52 |
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| ZogG_w | it launches and crashes | 22:53 |
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| ZogG_w | can't get info as from teminal it does work | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | so does the desktop icon | 22:53 |
| ZogG_w | hmm | 22:53 |
| ZogG_w | wait i'll link you | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | basically, it seems to be user specific | 22:54 |
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| GuySoft | hi all, what do people mean here by 'reflashing' they mean the kernel? or wiping out the system? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32408&page=2 | 23:03 |
| lcuk | oh N810, how awesome you are: After my reflash, it is fine now. 10 hours later, it still reads 10 days standby, 7 hours of use. | 23:05 |
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| lcuk | GuySoft, I would take that as an OS reflash | 23:05 |
| lcuk | not just the kernel | 23:05 |
| GuySoft | lcuk, and how would i restore it all back? it would be a pain | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | that is not the question you asked | 23:06 |
| lcuk | so far you have not indicated you need to do anything | 23:06 |
| GuySoft | lcuk, i have problems with power drain | 23:08 |
| GuySoft | lasts around 5 hours | 23:08 |
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| lcuk | then check what is running | 23:08 |
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| ZogG_w__ | finally | 23:11 |
| ZogG_w__ | MohammadAG: i was on phone and than webchat lagged | 23:11 |
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| ZogG_w__ | MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70962&highlight=bouncebounce&page=3 from second post and on | 23:19 |
| GuySoft | lcuk, i did, nothing takes the cpu, except maemo-launcher, and sometimes browserd (even though i didnt open a browser since the devices was started) | 23:20 |
| ZogG_w__ | also as i understand papertoss has same issues | 23:20 |
| ZogG_w__ | lcukn900: hey | 23:20 |
| GuySoft | lcuk, you can seehttp://nopaste.dk/p3012 | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG_w__, #30 doesn't have the CSSU, and is having the problem | 23:21 |
| GuySoft | this is right after boot | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | so please, don't blame the CSSU :P | 23:21 |
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| ZogG_w__ | MohammadAG: i don't blame, where did i. i just thought it was cssu releated =) | 23:22 |
| ZogG_w__ | as i saw several people having same thing | 23:22 |
| ZogG_w__ | probably somthing broke it during updates | 23:22 |
| ZogG_w__ | some python package | 23:22 |
| ZogG_w__ | MohammadAG: do u have profileX thing? | 23:23 |
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| ZogG_w__ | what the F | 23:28 |
| ZogG_w__ | just connected second monitor to laptop | 23:28 |
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| ZogG_w__ | and using mplayer on fullscreen just get half picture on one and other half on other =) | 23:28 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG_w__, no, I'm quite happy with 2 profiles :P | 23:30 |
| ZogG_w__ | ok | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | GuySoft, do you use gps and stuff? | 23:56 |
| lcuk | ZogG_w__, N900 DE is the open source aim at the moment: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition | 23:58 |
| lcuk | monitor its progress and get involved :) | 23:58 |
| GuySoft | lcuk, no | 23:58 |
| GuySoft | lcuk, i think something is draining it | 23:58 |
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