IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-03-18

SurjikalVenemo, Ok great.. I did install the gnokii-conf package (on the n900) and configured using the GUI. It did really do anything..00:00
SurjikalIt did not**00:00
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VenemoSurjikal, sorry, but I don't know the answer. please be patient, someone else may come along who knows :)00:00
SurjikalVenemo, sounds good, thanks!00:01
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kwtmVenemo: Thanks for the answer of "ifconfig".  I had already tried that, actually, but ifconfig is not an available command.  Is there some package from that I should install to get ifconfig?00:02
Venemokwtm, try 'root' then 'ifconfig'00:03
kwtmVenemo: Ahh, I was ahead of you there.  Tried and failed.  Are you able to do ifconfig on your N900?00:03
kwtmSurjikal: You may want to post this in the talk forums so people who just happen not to be online might be able to help.00:03
Venemobut it only finds the command when I'm root00:03
Surjikalkwtm, 'sudo gainroot' then 'ifconfig'?00:04
kwtmVenemo: Would you mind checking which package provides that ifconfig command on your N900?  (I forget the actual command ... apt-cache search ifconfig or something...)00:04
Venemokwtm, it's there by default00:04
kwtmSurjikal: Umm... does "sudo gainroot" do something different from "root"?00:04
kwtmVenemo: Okay, would you mind typing "type ifconfig" on your N900?  Maybe my path is not set up correctly.00:05
Venemobut you should use 'root'00:05
Surjikalkwtm, not sure.. try just 'sudo ifconfig'00:05
Venemokwtm, 'ifconfig is /sbin/ifconfig'00:05
kwtmVenemo: Thanks.  Will set that up.00:05
SurjikalStrange that the path was unset00:06
kwtmSurjikal: Interesting.  It's in the path.  I wonder why root can't run it after "root"...00:06
Surjikalkwtm, did you try sudo ifconfig?00:07
SurjikalThat's how I normally do it.00:07
SurjikalThat and sudo gainroot, ifconfig00:07
kwtmHmm, it's aliased to busybox...00:07
Surjikalthat is strange00:08
Venemonot really. that's how busybox works00:08
BCMMsymlinked, rather than aliased00:08
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SurjikalI see, how does it know which program to execute?00:08
BCMMbusybox is a single binary, implementing sh, cat, ifconfig, top, etc. etc.00:09
BCMMit works out how to behave based on what it was called as00:09
kwtmSurjikal: Did you pre-configure the sudoers file to allow ifconfig?  Mine says "user is not allowed to run /sbin/ifconfig"00:09
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SurjikalDon't remember 100% but I doubt it.00:09
kwtmWell, it's aliased to /sbin/ifconfig which is symlinked to busybox.00:09
VenemoSurjikal, the path from which your executable is called is passed as the first parameter to it. so it is the first item of main()'s argv00:09
BCMM(the first parameter, argv[0], is the name by which the program was invoked)00:10
alteregoCool, got a new solution for my Qml theming under meego issue :)00:10
Venemoanyway guys, I've gon an exam tomorrow and very little chance. so at least I'll try to rest before it :)00:10
BCMMi.e. the 0th parameter of "echo a b c" is echo, not a00:10
MohammadAGgood luck Venemo00:11
SurjikalRight, I thought that would have been busybox. I guess it makes sense that its ifconfig though :D00:11
yaccmlwane, well, you do not want it managed via NetworkManager, you want it managed via the old style Debian interfaces files.00:11
VenemoBCMM, yeah, that's what I said :)00:11
VenemoMohammadAG, thank you, but luck isn't going to compensate for my lack of knowledge this time00:11
BCMMVenemo: indeed it was :) i'm too slow00:12
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mlwaneyacc: and how do i achieve that ?00:12
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Venemono problem BCMM, your explanation makes more sense. (except the part about echo. echo is not an executable.) :P00:12
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Venemo'type echo' -> 'echo is a shell builtin'00:13
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VenemoMohammadAG, I would have required about a week to learn this shit, but I had a single afternoon instead.00:13
BCMMVenemo: it doesn't have to be00:14
alteregogood luck for you exam tomorrow Venemo :)00:14
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SurjikalSo, anyone knows how to get sms over bluetooth working with the n900?00:14
mlwaneyacc, i tried to add the "usb0" interface to "/etc/network/interfaces" but that didn't work00:14
BCMMVenemo: on a normal machine, you'll find a /bin/echo too00:14
Venemoalterego, honestly, I'll probably fail it.00:14
kwtmWow, first time ssh'ing into my N900.  What fun.  I don't even have to hook up a USB cable. :)00:14
VenemoBCMM, interesting. there's /bin/echo on my Fedora :P00:15
VenemoBCMM, yet, 'type echo' says that it's a shell builtin too00:15
BCMMVenemo: yeah, there would be on any "ordinary" GNU/Linux system00:15
kwtmVenemo: If you use a shell that doesn't have echo as a built-in, your /bin/echo is there.00:16
BCMMVenemo: yeah, because it's an easy thing to implement and greatly improves performance of shell scripts00:16
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BCMMVenemo: it's part of GNU Coreutils00:16
Venemointeresting :)00:16
MohammadAGpart of busybox on the N900!00:16
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BCMMyeah, maemo has no coreutils by default00:16
kwtmAlthough I'm switching everything over to printf (which I guess wasn't there in the olden days, because I don't see how echo could offer anything that printf doesn't).00:17
BCMMVenemo: coreutils is the package providing stuff like cat and so on on a normal GNU system00:17
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VenemoBCMM, yeah, I'm aware of that :)00:17
BCMMother BB stuff like top and ifconfig are normally provided by other projects, though00:17
BCMMoh, sorry00:18
Venemono problem00:18
kwtmOkay, found ifconfig.  It's at /sbin/ifconfig, and I just have to specify the full pathname, and then I can execute it as user, even. :)00:18
Venemoanyway, goodbye :)00:18
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mlwaneguys does anybody know how to share my laptop's  internet with my n900 via usb ? (Ubuntu 10.10)00:20
Surjikalmlwane, there's a bunch of guides out there I believe.00:20
SurjikalI think connecting via usb will create a network. Not too sure though.. Try plugging it in and check ifconfig00:21
mlwaneSurjikal, yeah but unfortunately none of them worked with me :(00:21
Venemomlwane, why don't you just set up an ad-hoc wifi?00:21
mlwanead-hoc will use a lot of power00:22
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Venemowho cares?00:22
SurjikalIs it possible to play back a sound file over a phone call?00:22
Surjikalmlwane, yeah, you were going to plug it in anyway00:22
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Surjikalvenemo, why not?00:23
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pupnikwe could build a telescope to detect organic molecules on other planets00:24
pupnik1.5 billion euro00:24
mlwaneSurjikal, yeah but i want to keep it running for a long period of time and that will ruin the battery by time00:24
MohammadAGis there a way to play only sound from an mp4 file?00:24
Surjikalmlwane, I guess so.. you could always remove the battery I think. But in any case, usb tethering should work.00:25
mlwaneSurjikal, usb tethering is not that to use the phone as a modem only ?00:26
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SpeedEvilRuin the battery - how?00:29
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mlwaneby keeping on recharging it all the day00:31
Surjikalmlwane, I thought thats what you wanted. So you want to share you pc's network connection with the n900?00:31
mlwaneSurjikal, yes00:32
kwtmHow do I find out the RSA key fingerprint of my N900 that I'm SSH'ing into?  Somehow it asked me this time "hey are you sure there's no MitM?" but last time it didn't.00:34
SpeedEvil /home/user/.ssh I thin00:35
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SpeedEvilIt will store the key - or it should, and if it changes, will warn00:35
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kwtmSpeedEvil: No.  It's not there.  You're referring to the hashes of the key of the remote computer (which still isn't useful since it's hashed).  What I'm talking about is if it warns: Hey!  Are you sure this is right?  The key I'm getting from the remote server is AA-BB-CC-DD-whatever.  Is that correct?00:37
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kwtmThe question is: how do you go to the remote server and check if it really is "AA-BB-CC-DD-whatever"?  Where is that stored?00:37
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SpeedEvil /etc/ssh/ssh_host_key00:39
SpeedEvilThis gets stored - along with the user key - in ~/.ssh/known hosts on your local system.00:40
SpeedEvilOr something like that.00:40
SpeedEvilIf either of these changes, it warns.00:40
SpeedEvilI think00:40
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kwtmThanks, SpeedEvil00:41
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kwtmI did get a permission denied, but I was able to find this command posted on the web, which does what I want ... ssh-keygen -l -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key00:41
SpeedEvilman sshd00:41
kwtmaccompanied by a blog posting how ridiculous it is that it takes so much trouble just to get the hostkey.00:41
SpeedEvilThat should get run at first run of sshd00:42
kwtmI mean, I'm just trying to log in from another computer just to get things done ... by this time I've forgotten why I wanted to ssh into the N900 in the first place ...00:42
kwtmOh, well, another alias to be defined...00:42
Macerkwtm: heh00:43
Macerkwtm: i've done that before ;)00:43
Macerinstalled openssh then didn't find a use for it . but then again i don't dev much on it :)00:43
Maceri'm sure the coder fanboys love it00:43
yaccmlwane, where are you stuck?00:43
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RiDHi dear people :D02:02
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lolcatWhere can I find a cross compliler with tools for N900?02:57
lcuklolcat, scratchbox02:58
lcukthe normal sdk includes it :)02:58
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lcukthough you oculd be tough as nails and not use a cross compiler ;)02:58
lolcatIs there a tutorial on how to cross compile things?02:58
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lolcatI have to cross compile it with the toolchain for it to work. It is intended for a quite diffrent kernel.02:59
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lolcatlcuk: I am going to install dalvik on it03:04
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lcuklolcat, cool, well have fun, the scratchbox guys did a good job03:05
lolcatlcuk: Lets hope it is good enough to run dalvik.03:06
lcuklolcat, dalvik is fake java isn't it?03:07
lcukthere is hardware support for java and not being used03:07
lolcatYes, dalvik is Android JVM:03:07
lcukdidn't that already get run before?03:07
lolcatOn the N900? Oo03:08
lolcatIn Maemo?03:08
lcuklolcat, IDK about maemo, but on the n900 at least :)03:10
lolcatlcuk: I hate android OS.03:10
lolcatI love Maemo03:10
lolcatAnd I like spotify03:10
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lcukthat is good then03:10
lcukbut if you make everything spotty won't it look a bit odd?03:10
lolcatlcuk: ^03:12
lcuklolcat, if you love spottifying things the by definition become spotty03:13
lolcatI like the music03:13
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: I gather you severely misunderstood the recommended usage of PKI and ssh04:24
DocScrutinizerfor sue there's no use in defining a shortcut/alias for ssh-keygen04:24
DocScrutinizerkwtm: I frequently use >>ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root t900<< to log in to devices which change IP or name04:28
DocScrutinizerkwtm: sorry if your problem is one I never seen and my comment was off topic, but the only MitM warnings I've ever seen were when IP of remote system changed04:32
DocScrutinizerand that'S a really rather useless function tbh, at least IMHO04:33
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DocScrutinizer(reagrding the Pb shielded helis) I learnt the SFP with all the rods exposed (no water) is sending up *massive* gamma like a flashlight. I still wonder if they ever heard about fly-by-wire and remote control, rather than risking health and life of pilots04:49
DocScrutinizerreally operating all sorts of vehicles isn't anything you need a human *inside*, no matter if it's airborne, tank, whatever04:52
cehtehsending up? .. i doubt it directs it only the containment and other shielding may prevent sending it into other directions and maybe core geometry gives upwards a little favor04:53
DocScrutinizerI might understand why USSR wasn't able to use that technology in 1986, but hey JP is considered the land of robots and electronics04:54
DocScrutinizerspent fuel pool04:54
cehtehhey they had no containment and nothing at all above the core .. it was way easier reachable04:54
cehteheasy access technology :P04:54
cehtehbtw japan asked for robots from germany ..04:55
DocScrutinizerI bet we love to send those04:55
cehtehasimo's are useless plaything ... real robots are made in germany04:55
DocScrutinizerthey should've asked on day004:55
cehtehwell "should" .. there should be no day0 ... but04:56
DocScrutinizerhowever putting some 6 servos into a tank isn't anything near rocket science04:56
DocScrutinizerin holywood they do that all the time, for their car stunts04:57
cehtehgetting a lot redundant extra pipes an valves there isnt either04:57
DocScrutinizersource of failure04:57
DocScrutinizerif mounted04:57
cehtehmaybe .. but i dont want to imagine more failure than what currently happens04:58
DocScrutinizer...and I bet a heli can be operated with less than 10 servos as well04:58
cehtehprolly not a chinook04:59
cehtehthese are huge .. did you ever seen one in real?04:59
DocScrutinizerwell, according to prophecies of experts the big bang will happen in now+12h or somesuch04:59
DocScrutinizerI hope they're wrong04:59
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DocScrutinizerOTOH AIUI all those experts were thinking and talking about the reactors only. It seems though as if the SFPs are the worse problem05:02
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DocScrutinizernever knew you could get a core melt where's no core at all05:03
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DocScrutinizer(chinook) sure, my granny lived next to a US mini airbase, Coburg (15km to DDR)05:07
ds315km to DDR? mighty long traces to memory :D05:08
DocScrutinizeror whatever the facility was. Every once in a week there landed some of those dual rotor helis05:08
cehteh+++ Polizeigewerkschaft: Deutsche AKW nicht terrorsicher +++05:09
cehteh[02.55 Uhr] Die Deutsche Polizeigewerkschaft hält die Atomkraftwerke in der Bundesrepublik für nicht sicher vor Terrorangriffen.05:09
DocScrutinizer<yawn> back when those helis landed there, they prolly did because it was close to the iron curtain back when05:09
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cehtehmuhaha .. as if that would be the most important concern05:09
DocScrutinizeractually it might05:09
DocScrutinizerI seem to remember we had a near-GAU when some "terrorists" cut down a power pylon05:10
DocScrutinizerno more connectio to grid. SCRAM. No more power. Failing generators...05:11
DocScrutinizeralso next stuxnet might blackout half Europe05:12
cehtehif cars would be constructed like nuklear plants then they would be extremely dangerous ...05:13
cehtehimagine you hit the brake at 100kmh .. and at 30kmh it just stops braking and goes over rolling05:13
DocScrutinizeralso losing steer servo, and never come up again. Nice when you're on a downhill road - which for a NPP you always are05:15
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cehtehah something n900 related .. the device lock button (slider?) .. is that a mechanic switch or magnetic or optical?05:17
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DocScrutinizerand (dunno where) I seem to remember I noticed recently it bounces like hell05:22
cehtehmhm .. sometimes i wonder if mine gets weared out ... i know that the device sometimes reacts slowly on it under load .. but rarely it doesnt react at all without any load05:23
DocScrutinizersame here, but I'm not sure about the load05:23
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cehtehi didnt disassembled my n900 yet .. but maybe some kontact-spray will help .. but needs disassembling05:24
DocScrutinizerOTOH mce/bme/whatnot is notorious to lose an occasional charger-plugged signal, though /sys knows there's a charger05:25
DocScrutinizernah, do *not* do this05:25
DocScrutinizercontact spray ruins switches usually05:25
DocScrutinizerbelieve me, I ruined several :-P05:26
cehtehheh works for me ..05:26
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cehtehi revived a lot mouses with it05:26
DocScrutinizerit works like for 4 weeks, then back to original and getting worse05:26
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cehtehwell "Kontakt 61" .. thats a special fluid for switches05:26
cehtehnah permanently (well years at least i can tell)05:27
DocScrutinizerhell, I *know* all sorts of contact sprays05:27
infoboti heard joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer05:27
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cehtehyes hence i saied Kontakt 61 (from Kontakt chemie) no other :)05:27
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cehtehi know that a lot others types are not good or even worse05:28
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* DocScrutinizer makes mental note to get new canned air05:28
cehtehespecially for switches which have some load and then using silicone based oils .. thats perfect destruction :)05:28
DocScrutinizerthe problem is a lot of switches already have that silicone oil05:29
cehtehyou can wash that out05:29
DocScrutinizerno you can't really05:29
DocScrutinizeryou'll wash it on contact surface05:30
cehtehsufficently .. maybe not perfect05:30
cehtehwell .. wash it out .. dry it and then apply the fluid i mentioned before05:30
DocScrutinizeranyway, for N900 it won't help at all05:30
cehtehthat really worked for me .. always05:31
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cehtehdunno .. i prolly wait until the switch fails completely before repairing it05:31
DocScrutinizerdoes it get worse?05:31
cehtehexactly :)05:31
cehtehwell for some contacts i apply it for new equipment ...05:32
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cehtehbasically anything which has some danger to get humid but not accumulate dust05:33
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ds3wtf... local news must be run by pure morons07:03
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Mykhaljust got simple mobile for my nokia n900, but can't get internet to work. can anyone help?07:52
slonopotamusyep, your mobile provider manual07:53
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Mykhalyou're such a wit. bet all the girls luv u07:54
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chxYou are such a nice person to say that someoen who helps you for free. You are lucky i am not an op....07:55
Mykhalwe're all lucky you're not an op07:56
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Mykhaland that wasn't very much help at all07:57
slonopotamusall your questions were answered.07:58
Mykhalyeah, ok. thanx07:59
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* timeless_w7ip sighs08:42
timeless_w7ipone-tree != onetree08:42
ruskie <-- hmmm08:42
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lolcatHow do I charge a li-ion battery manually?08:46
timeless_w7ipruskie: some of us read /. yesterday08:46
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timeless_w7ipruskie: do note that "void main (int argc, char* argv);" should not be copyrightable08:49
* timeless_w7ip frowns08:50
timeless_w7ipso i woke up this morning to discover 4 emails from cron08:50
timeless_w7iptelling me i couldn't spell the name of my script correctly08:50
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timeless_w7ipto be fair, i didn't write or name the script, someone else somewhere else did08:50
ruskietimeless_w7ip, but you do agree that all that work required someones creativity and effort to write up so they do have a copyright on it...08:57
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timeless_w7ipnot like that anyway08:59
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timeless_w7ipfor instance, i claim that a list of words that are spelled correctly in English is not copyrightable08:59
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ruskieso basically you don't consider books copyrightable?09:00
ruskiewhich is a list of words09:00
timeless_w7ipi don't think 'effort' is a criterion for copyright09:00
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abtimeless_w7ip, U.S.Code Title 17 Section 117(a)(1) covers this Android case09:00
timeless_w7ipit could take someone a lot of effort to write "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ...."09:00
timeless_w7ipbut that doesn't make it copyrightable09:00
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timeless_w7ipruskie: by "list of words that are spelled correctly", i mean literally a list of correctly spelled words, no repeats09:04
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timeless_w7iproughly the thing that would enable a spellchecker to decide that 'teh' is not correctly spelled09:04
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kerioyou mean /usr/share/something/dict?09:09
timeless_w7ipall i have is /usr/share/bash-compeletion/dict09:10
timeless_w7ipso not that :)09:10
timeless_w7ip.. /usr/share/dict/words09:11
timeless_w7ipyeah, a file like that09:11
keriowell you can probably find that file at some point in pi09:11
timeless_w7ipsimilarly, i would hope that a sorted list of books would also fail copyright09:12
timeless_w7ipthe reason that both should fail is that they are not 'creative'09:12
kerioi'd say that anything that can be turned into a number can't be subject to a copyright09:12
ruskiethere is a database copyright... but I believe it has specific requirements for a work to be considered a copyrightable database09:12
timeless_w7ipruskie: database copyright is the EU's way of making everything copyrightable09:12
timeless_w7ipand that's absolutely insane09:13
timeless_w7ipthe EU deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth just for that09:13
keriotimeless_w7ip: how are software patents working for you?09:13
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timeless_w7ipkerio: much less disturbing than the eu database copyright09:14
timeless_w7ipi could take them or leave them09:14
timeless_w7ipheck, i would take them if that's what was required to get rid of the eu database copyright09:14
timeless_w7ipi'd rather *not* take them09:14
ruskietimeless_w7ip, russia also has it ;)09:15
timeless_w7ipon the scale of evil, they are insignificant when compared to the db c09:15
timeless_w7ipruskie: when i get out of here, you can have some of my sympathies09:15
timeless_w7ipi'm in .eu09:16
ruskie if there has not been substantial investment (which need not be financial), the database will not be protected <-- so technically not everything is copyrightable09:17
ruskie database rights specifically protect the "qualitatively and/or quantitatively [a] substantial investment in either the obtaining, verification or presentation of the contents":09:17
timeless_w7ipruskie: db c is designed to allow corporations to sue everyone else09:18
timeless_w7ipand to prevent smaller groups from claiming it09:18
timeless_w7ipif you're a single person, perhaps you can't claim "substantial investment"09:19
timeless_w7ipand thus your work is inelligible :)09:19
ruskiesure you can... inventoring all the books in my hous is a substantial investment of my time09:19
timeless_w7ipbut basically between all of the or's in the clause pretty much everything is db c09:19
timeless_w7ipruskie: and if a second person comes in and makes an inventory09:20
timeless_w7ipthey're infringing on your db?09:20
timeless_w7ipthat's the stuff stupidity is made of09:20
ruskieno they are infringing on my property ;)09:20
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ruskiebut I see what you mean09:20
ruskiethey made some stupid calls there09:20
timeless_w7ipthe entire concept is stupid09:20
timeless_w7ipa work can be creative09:21
timeless_w7ipan index of a work is not creative09:21
ruskiewhat do you call openstreetmap then?09:21
timeless_w7ipit can be done by an indexer, whicih is not a creative process09:21
timeless_w7ipopenstreetmap is a collection09:21
ruskieaka a database09:21
timeless_w7ipindividual elements in the collection may be creative and thus should perhaps be elligible for copyright09:21
timeless_w7ipthe collection itself should not09:21
timeless_w7iproughly speaking...09:21
timeless_w7ipthe complete works of william shakespeare should not be entitled to c09:22
timeless_w7ipbut each individual work of william shakespeare should be ellligible09:22
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: but each individual work of william shakespeare should be elligible09:22
timeless_w7ipruskie: the other problem w/ db c is that it has a provision for ensuring infinite copyright duration09:23
timeless_w7ipyou can touch the database every 16 years or so09:23
timeless_w7ipand the copyright will never expire09:23
ruskieimho corporations shouldn't be allowed to have copyrights or patents09:23
keriolike a cron job?09:23
timeless_w7ipkerio: pretty much09:23
timeless_w7ipalthough on the scale of 16 years, you'll probably need to migrate the cron job more often than it runs!09:23
kerio0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 touch mycopyrights09:24
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timeless_w7ipoops, time for work09:29
ruskiehave fun09:29
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jacekowskihmm, jabber is broken on my phone for some reason10:06
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jacekowskiit works on desktop10:06
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ruskiebroken how?10:18
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pupnik_wish i could tilt the cam on n90010:43
pupnik_take pictures while holding the device normal angle10:44
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ruskie <-- fun10:49
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robbiethe1stHm, that'll actually be good. It means that we can now blame -anyone- disagreeing with us(especially a majority) as astroturfing shills!10:55
robbiethe1stPeople may also start watching IPs - There's only so many VPS hosts10:56
robbiethe1stBut, either way, it should be good that this news is out there - Take -any- message, no matter how many people agree with it, with a grain of salt.10:57
ruskiealways do10:58
ruskiealways have10:58
robbiethe1stYea, but not everyone does10:58
ruskienote: tor can do something similar though you need to do a lot of manual footwork...10:59
ruskieas for watching ips... with ipv6... I wonder how fun that will be...10:59
ruskiemorning Doc11:00
* ruskie hands Doc some grass to chew on...11:00
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass11:01
DocScrutinizermooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh 15 times you do...11:03
DocScrutinizerI am cow, I eat my son, this is when BSE begun11:04
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ruskieyou seem bored11:05
JaffaMorning, all11:05
robbiethe1stOh, that reminds me: can anyone explain quickly why we can't use a newer kernel on the n900?11:05
robbiethe1stI know there's a good reason, but I forget11:05
ruskieI thought it was some of the drivers11:06
robbiethe1stAren't they userspace drivers or something?11:06
DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: /sys changed11:06
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DocScrutinizeralso some libs might not feel happy with new kernel11:07
ruskiewould be nice if that actually got fixed somehow11:07
ruskie*wishful thinking*11:07
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lofty306well there looking at just barriing the nuke plant in sand and concrete11:10
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DocScrutinizer~spell barriing11:23
infobotpossible spellings for barriing: barring baring burring bearing Barron Bering barrings bring barraging barreling barren boring barbing barfing barging barking earring jarring marring parring tarring warring Bahrain Behring berrying11:23
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lofty306burry ing11:25
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lofty306totaly forggot how to spell that oone11:25
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass11:31
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umm-n900hello all11:32
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DocScrutinizer~spank tybollt11:52
* infobot bends tybollt over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on tybollt's pasty white buttocks.11:52
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pupnik_is there a maemo zoneminder client12:03
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: :D12:07
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pupnik_find . -iname "*.mp3" -mtime -4 -exec mplayer \-shuffle \-quiet {} +12:23
pupnik_all you need is $12:23
pupnik_all you need is $, $, $.   $ is all you need12:23
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Corsacall you need is ❤12:24
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yaccOut of curiosity, where does the n900 store all my IM accounts?12:35
yaccAnd the history database of communication events?12:36
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alteregoAnyone know if QtMobility contacts works on maemo?12:43
alteregoyacc: history is in .rtcomm12:43
xxtjaxxUhm was there a way to extend ovimaps to say where to go along?12:43
alteregoyacc: accounts: ~/.rtcomm-accounts12:44
alteregoyacc: history: ~/.rtcomm-eventlogger12:44
xxtjaxxhm shit is there anyway to use it like a navigfational device?12:44
alteregoThere's a thread on t.m.o about modding ovi maps to do turn based navigation actually.12:44
DocScrutinizerthat too12:45
xxtjaxxalterego: link?12:45
lcuk\o morning12:45
DocScrutinizermoo lcuk12:45
alteregoxxtjaxx: search?12:45
alteregoIk don't have a link ..12:45
DocScrutinizersearch in HAM for map is easy12:46
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DocScrutinizererr s/maep/mappero/12:48
lcukall this talk of maps12:50
lcukDocScrutinizer, NokiaCareers have just posted an opening12:50
* lcuk gets it12:50
lcukRES00000109 #jobs at #nokia Visual/Animation Designer (web:
lcuk@NokiaCareers Re: RES00000109 Connect with Damian Waradzyn, author of Maemo CloudGPS application.
lcukerr crap, meant to only paste the top line12:51
DocScrutinizerwell, anim/visual is your domain :-D12:51
lcukDocScrutinizer, see the link I posted to Damians work12:51
lcukhe has really nice slick ux :)12:51
lcukespecially regarding rotation12:52
lcukthe map gently rotates and the UI slides out and back in with ease12:52
lcukit is amazingly simple and effective12:52
lcukabout 1:48 in the youtube video12:52
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alteregoI was implementing something similar for columbus 2 :)13:02
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lcukalterego, sure, get cloudgps and see if you can reproduce it as a standard component13:03
lofty306hmmm marble aint bad reminds me of what was that app on the 770 open street?13:09
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jhbxxtjaxx: on extending maps with voice:
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xxtjaxxjhb: thanks!13:26
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OkropNickAnyone knows application for drawing tracks with waypoints for N900? It would be usable to have something like Garmin eTrex in N90014:26
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alteregoOkropNick: Columbus draws live tracks, but I've yet to publish the next version that can import.14:33
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OkropNickalterego: thank you for reply14:34
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OkropNickalterego: if you add there import/export functionality - it will be perfect!14:44
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alteregoWell it already exports, nmea data.14:44
alteregoOkropNick: I'll make a release in the next week :)14:45
OkropNickalterego: yes, you're right. It has one of best interfaces from all applications that I've seen for N900 - realy good job :)14:46
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OkropNickIt's sad that I'm just poor PHP coder - I have to change it finally :|14:47
alteregoOkropNick: thank you very much :)14:47
alteregoHeh, web apps are the future apparently14:47
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OkropNickgood for me :)14:48
alteregoWell, I do web dev too :P14:48
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ZogGruskie, ping15:12
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ngpunkthas anyone tried to set up mutt @maemo (on the n900)? i don't find getmail+procmail pkgs which i need for my pop3-mailaccount (but i think about changing the mailservice)15:23
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* lcuk tickled by this thread:
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alteregoYeah, me too :d15:55
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GAN900Why is Apple seemingly the only company capable of putting computers together with USB ports that don't look like they came out of the cheapest factory in China. . . .15:55
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crashanddielol lcuk15:56
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crashanddielcuk, some of them are going all CSI in proving "NOT SHOOPED!!!!11"15:56
lcukyeah, hence the amusement15:56
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crashanddietmo is seemingly becoming a new 4chan board.15:59
crashanddie(meaning: tmo is improving)15:59
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khertansomeone know how notification in small red icon with a small number to notify the user that new mail is incoming in ?16:00
khertan(same principe on some iphone app icons to signal new things is available)16:02
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crashanddiekhertan, overlay text onto icon and generate image16:02
crashanddiethen update icon16:02
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khertancrashanddie: i know how to do ... i was looking for the name :)16:04
GAN900khertan, Adium should have the code in their source.16:05
khertanthx anywas16:05
khertanthx anyway16:05
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jonwilCan someone explain what Harmattan actually is? Is it just meego-on-n900? Is it bits of Maemo and bits of MeeGo merged into one?16:10
ngpunktcan anyone recommend me a cheap or free+secure(no googlish)+imap webmailservice?did use
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Corsacjonwil: who said harmattan would run on n900?16:12
khertanCorsac: Who said harmattan would run ?16:12
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jonwilI guess I must have been reading too much into comments on blogs etc16:12
Corsacthat too :)16:12
jonwilTrusting Engadget for reliable news about anything in the noila-linux ecosystem is probably not a good idea16:13
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kerioengadget is "zomgapplereleasedsomethingzomg"16:14
khertanjonwil: Trusting Engadget for reliable news about anything is not a good idea16:14
Venemojonwil, Harmattan is Maemo 6 base OS plus a Qt-based UI similar to MeeGo Handset, also based on MTF (aka. DUI)16:17
jonwilWhat makes maemo6 different from maemo5 then (other than what device it may run on)?16:18
chem|stjonwil: transitional to meego 116:18
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Venemojonwil, not much. it still uses Debian packaging with updated stuff. ask timeless or thiago about details. they may tell you more16:19
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jonwilin any case it sounds like none of Maemo6/Harmattan/MeeGo/etc work is going to help those of us with N900s running Maemo who just want better software and a few features that other phones have had for years but the N900 does not16:19
Venemojonwil, we don't really know more16:20
chem|stjonwil: some of the backend structure is changed, as venemo said still .deb but core parts of meego integrated16:20
chem|stdifferent kind of trackerd16:20
chem|stjonwil: reading what features?16:20
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jonwilCell Broadcast SMS support would be nice for those of us with carriers who send such SMSs (mine does)16:21
chem|stand n900 is the development platform16:21
chem|stmy previous phone couldn't do that...16:21
jonwilMy previous Motorola could do it. As could my mums old B&W screen Nokia dumbphone16:22
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chem|stall other phones I know cannot do alot of stuff you can do with n900s16:22
Venemochem|st ++16:22
Venemokerio ++16:22
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jonwilyeah the N900 is a great phone16:22
chem|stjonwil: actualy it is exactly what I want16:23
Venemochem|st ++16:23
chem|stthe only thing I would add is a compass (for hardware)16:23
khertanfor me it s ll be a mix between the n900 and the n81016:24
chem|stkhertan: what does the n810 have the n900 doesn't? (had no 810...)16:24
Venemochem|st, bigger screen, bigger keyboard16:24
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jonwilBe nice if I had more control over which networks (WiFi and cellular) that my N900 connected to16:25
Venemochem|st, better quality build materials, some hw buttons that the N900 doesn't have, and handwriting recognition (also not in N900)16:25
chem|stVenemo: sure a n910 would do great...16:26
* jonwil wonders if M6/Harmattan is going to be using ofono or the old crap cell stack16:26
Venemojonwil, my guess would be any random closed-source shit16:27
khertanchem|st: larger screen !!!16:27
khertanchem|st: hardware button !16:27
khertanand a pad16:27
chem|stkhertan: if any nokian wants my design I could make many CMs happy^^16:27
khertanCMs ?16:28
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chem|stkhertan: the n900 is a waste of space16:28
Venemochem|st, waste of space?16:29
chem|stit looks like they used the prebuild devel PCB and just put another shell around....16:29
chem|stthe hardware...16:30
khertanwhere did you see waste of space16:30
khertanwhat will you change ?16:31
chem|stthere is at least space for another 64gb memory and a compass16:31
khertanwhere too ?16:32
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khertans/too/to ?16:32
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chem|stjust talking sizes...16:32
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chem|sthas someone pictures handy`?16:32
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khertanyeah but where will you put the compass ?16:33
khertani didn't see any freespace16:34
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lcukthere is a spacer component in n900 (structural probably, but it is certainly removable and not actually part of the chassis16:35
SpeedEvilThere is huge amounts of free space.16:35
SpeedEvilCompass is ~4mm*4mm*1mm16:36
chem|stkhertan: frontside I fit 2-3 backside 1-216:36
SpeedEvil'waste' of space - there needs to be room to allow stuff to flex16:36
khertanSpeedEvil: hum ... i think it was larger ...16:37
chem|stSpeedEvil: sure but you don't need space like 2x4cm for flexibility16:37
lcukkhertan, it is not a Jack Sparrow Compass!
chem|stand replace the cheap material and you safe a lot more16:38
khertanoh ... dude ... i think it was !16:38
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khertanthis is a reliable :
khertanouche sorry for the link16:39
khertan^^ a real reliable compass16:40
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lcukkhertan, is that a compass in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?16:40
chem|sta design where you use needed parts as connection between housing materials is not common yet but used as antenna for iphone4 for example16:41
khertanlcuk:  :)16:41
khertanabout that ... chem|st where is the antenna on this picture ? there isn't ?16:42
khertanand the wifi antenna ?16:42
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chem|stthe antennas are the bottom and the top edge of your back16:44
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chem|stwell side bottom and top of the devices back, on the pics only the top one is disected16:45
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chem|stgtg bye gents16:47
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lolcat"We have recently received a Forum Nokia Launchpad membership application from you and would like to thank you for your interest towards our developer programs. Since Nokia’s new strategy and the alliance with Microsoft was announced in February, we have been flooded with membership applications from developers interested in Launchpad membership. Due to the vast number of applications, the  review times are considerably longer than usually.17:00
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lofty306lol lolcat17:03
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Venemololcat, wtf is that?17:12
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andre__a quote.17:18
GAN900lolcat, bullshit.17:20
lolcatGAN900: Bullshit?17:22
lolcatVenemo: Nokia sent me an answer for my developer account or whatever, I read an article about them giving away phones17:23
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alteregololcat: did they say no? :)17:23
lolcatThey said that17:23
lolcatSo I guess I will have to wait17:24
GAN900lolcat, I smell marketing at work.17:25
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alteregoI applied for that ages ago17:29
alteregoI never got anything :/17:29
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alteregoOh hang on17:33
alteregoI just got an email from 'forumnokialaunchpad'17:33
alteregoPfft, I appleid for that months ago17:34
alteregoI'd actually completely forgotten until now :D17:34
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lolcatDid you get approved?17:39
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khertanlol many developper ... mouarf18:33
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SpeedEvil All that is old is topical again.19:00
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Jartzanokia will release maemo 6 phone? :o19:03
andre__Jartza, IMO Nokia calls it "MeeGo-based", some Intel folks call it "Maemo 6", and we will all probably see in the end how meegoish it is19:04
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MohammadAGwth is error: void value not ignored as it ought to be19:11
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GAN900MeeGo N19:12
GAN900andre__, Intel folks calling it Maemo 6 is just cruel.19:13
MohammadAGoh nvm19:13
* MohammadAG facepalms19:13
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OkropNickanyone knows where N900 stores sugestions for word autocompletion? (using onscreen keyboard)20:32
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* slonopotamus wonders who are all these 409 people20:42
slonopotamusand why they hang here20:43
piggzslonopotamus: i have an n900, and i program for it!20:44
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piggzseems like a good enough reason to me20:44
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* slonopotamus programs ON his :P20:44
lcukslonopotamus, what do you write though!20:45
slonopotamuswas hacking sflphone recently20:46
lcukslonopotamus, was build/compile time an issue?20:46
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slonopotamusn900 cpu is nice, especially @1ghz20:47
* lcuk just doing MeeGo comparisons of build time20:47
slonopotamusand don't start that shit about lifetime shorteting20:48
kerioslonopotamus: :<20:48
lcukand so far Maemo is taking a whole extra minute to build stuff20:48
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lcukon same machine20:48
infobotslonopotamus meant: and don't start that shit about lifetime shortening20:48
lcukslonopotamus, I am just trying to compare/contrast the write speed things20:48
slonopotamusdunno about n900, n8x0 kernel had explicit delays to slow down mmc accesses20:49
lcukthose were optimisations in waiting.20:51
MohammadAGgrr, can't figure out why a window's causing my mediaplayer to segfault20:52
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FIQ|n900segfault :D20:59
FIQ|n900the most informative error that exists20:59
FIQ|n900"blablaprogramoutputSegmentation fault."20:59
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lcukgdb MohammadAG21:04
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MohammadAGlcuk, not that helpful21:04
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MohammadAGI'm not creating any layouts outside designer21:06
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lcukMohammadAG, what was the app doing at the time?21:06
MohammadAGnothing, the window is just there21:06
MohammadAGit's not connected to any signals21:06
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MohammadAGactually, it is, but they don't have to do with layouts21:07
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lcukMohammadAG, it is happening when you close it?21:11
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MohammadAGlcuk, yes21:14
MohammadAGin the destructor, obviously :)21:14
lcukso it is not just sitting there21:15
MohammadAGthe destructor's only deleting the UI21:16
MohammadAGwhich is done with Qt Designer21:16
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MohammadAGso I'm guessing this is a bug in it21:16
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lcukwhat about the timer you started?21:17
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MohammadAGthat's only fired when you click the volume button21:19
MohammadAGI'm not touching that, the window is 3 stacked windows deep and the mediaplayer segfaults right when you open -> close it21:20
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lcukMohammadAG, then don't close it.21:22
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MohammadAGlcuk, lol21:24
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lcukfrom what I can gather, MeeGo filesystem is quite substantially faster than same machine running Maemo (at least for the tests I just ran)21:32
lcukrunning "time make" on same codebase in Maemo and MeeGo o_O:21:32
lcukmake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/meego/svn_tab/libliqbase/src'21:32
lcukmake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/user/svn_tab/libliqbase/src'21:32
lcukreal4m 28.92s21:33
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ShadowJKlcuk: is that on flash or harddrive?21:39
ShadowJK(looks like same magnitude of difference as I saw in comparing btrfs vs ext3 on flash)21:39
lcukShadowJK, that is on my n90021:40
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MohammadAGlcuk, same media?21:40
lcukand using different places on the filesystem21:40
lcukMohammadAG, MeeGo is on a C2 4gb external card21:40
lcukthe maemo results are on different places on its own filesystem21:40
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lcukbut location within maemo did not appear to make a difference21:41
ShadowJKYeah it makes sense. iirc there was only 2X difference between btrfs and ext3 when I benchmarked it a year ago21:41
ShadowJKwhat brand of card?21:42
lcukcan tell you in a minute21:43
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lcukjust checking something else21:43
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ShadowJKbtw if Maemo is running from internal Nand, with swap and your working directory on emmc, it would have an advantage vs MeeGo on microsd. However, if MeeGo on microsd is using swap on emmc, I would say MeeGo has a benefit especially if compiling C++ stuff21:45
ShadowJKJust saying that the spreading of IO load across the 3 possible devices can have bigger effect than the speeds of the underlying media or speed of filesystem21:46
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RST38hShadowJK: MMC raid array? =)21:47
puzzleddoes anyone know where openssh puts logs on the N900? /var/log/ is pretty much empty21:48
ShadowJKRST38h, probably harmful to performance :-)21:49
ShadowJKpuzzled, install syslogd (or searcg for syslog) from sdk-tools repo, reboot21:49
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puzzledShadowJK: thanks21:50
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MohammadAGfixed the bastard21:53
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RST38hShadowJK: Ok, Raid022:00
lcukShadowJK, MeeGo uses the external MMC card for everything22:01
ShadowJKRST38h, probably harmful to performance :-)22:03
ShadowJKlcuk, I have a hard time construdtiong a summary of whether IO loads were equally distributed in both test cases :-)22:03
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lcukShadowJK, do you know any real benchmark tools which can give real results?22:05
lcukbecause ali1234 has similar questions22:05
* lcuk was just curious to see this case22:05
ShadowJKcompiling isn't a very bad test22:07
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ShadowJKbut running a benchmark on a filesystem+drive while the OS has its files and/or swap there will make the results different22:10
ShadowJKsometimes much different :-)22:11
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vi____GOD DAMMIT22:13
vi____i need some help22:13
vi____has an SSH and a serial console function22:14
vi____how the fuck do I use them22:14
vi____whenever I use serial console I get the error:22:14
piggzdoes the ovi map loader from symbian also load maps onto the n900?22:16
vi____login: cannot run /bin/bash: No such file or directory22:17
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vi____whenever I try USB SSH it says password incorrect22:17
vi____WTF am I missing22:17
vi____How can I access rootfs?22:17
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vi____please for the love of god somone help me22:17
ShadowJKbtw, while my own tests showed btrfs as twice as fast as ext3, nilfs2 was twice as fast as btrfs :)22:18
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vi____I am at the edge here22:18
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vi____can somone please answer me?22:19
RST38his nilfs2 write-only?22:19
ShadowJKbut nilfs2 is a bit too batteryhungry.22:19
ShadowJKRST38h, no?22:19
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RST38hok, the name is weird =)22:20
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vi____so no one knows huh?22:21
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vi____please dont feel pressured into answering a bro in distress here22:23
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ShadowJKvi____, no idea, but if this thing worked at some point, but no longer works, I'd assume something happened in between, and you telling us what that was could help22:23
ShadowJKif this "backupmenu" thing relies on sh and sshd from rootfs and merely provides a convenient way to bypass the usual startup procedure and directly launch sh on serial port, or sshd on network, then I'd say messing up the rootfs would make those things stop work22:24
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ShadowJKbut I don't really know how backupmenu is built22:24
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MohammadAGpreinit script22:27
ShadowJKright so, damaged rootfs can disable functionality of backupmenu22:29
vi____backupmenu is not broken22:30
vi____there is a corrupt file that is preventing the phone from booting22:30
vi____I should be able to just ssh into the phone but neither console or SSH FUCKINGWELL WORK22:31
MohammadAGand what file is this?22:31
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MohammadAGright, save yourself the time and kill the watchdog22:32
ruskiehmm disconnected the n900 @06:30 in the morning... and have been playing music non-stop until 21:00 and of that atleast 4 hours was running through the fm transmiter... and it was in the red when I plugged it back in...22:32
vi____what will this do?22:32
MohammadAGflasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset22:32
MohammadAGfix the file, then flasher-3.5 --disable-rd-mode22:33
MohammadAGkill the watchdog22:33
vi____but the phone wont even boot22:33
MohammadAGphone will no longer reboot if a critical process dies22:33
MohammadAG(you know, how all linux systems handle dead processes)22:34
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vi____It doesnt matter now22:34
MohammadAGwell, if it's only systemui, then it will if you kill the watchdog22:34
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vi____I made a backup with BUmenu22:34
MohammadAGstop being stubborn and do what I said :P22:34
vi____and edited the offending file22:34
vi____then tried to restore22:35
vi____it freaked out with a tar 2 error22:35
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vi____now the thing is fucked and wont even go to BUmenu22:35
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vi____now i have to reflash22:36
alteregono need to spam ..22:36
MohammadAGstop spamming22:37
Proteousit's always funny when people mess around with their phones kernel and then get all worked up when the need to reflash22:37
vi____STFU man22:37
vi____twho even mentioned the kernel22:37
Proteouseither your phone is a plaything to experiment on or it's something you want to stay working22:37
vi____well, I hardly thought an XML error would cripple the thing22:38
ShadowJKRemember the full tar error?22:38
MohammadAGwell, I gave you a solution, you decided to ignore it and fuck with the filesystem22:38
MohammadAGgood luck22:38
vi____I appreciate your help22:38
vi____I did it before you suggested it22:38
vi____thank you anyway22:38
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ShadowJKvi____, instead of writing all caps, can you try remember what the tar error was?22:40
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ZogG_wRST38h: have u seen  impad 2 ? =)22:45
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MohammadAGdsme is retarded tbh22:47
MohammadAGit shouldn't reboot if it already did 3+ times22:47
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ZogG_wwhat is dsme?22:47
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MohammadAGsoftware watchdog22:49
ZogG_wthe one that announce u about updates?22:49
MohammadAGwhile true; do killall hildon-desktop && sleep 1; done, watch the device reboot in less than 10 secs22:49
ZogG_wMohammadAG: is icons for python apps bug was reported?22:50
MohammadAG(unless you killed the watchdog)22:50
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MohammadAGum, no22:50
ZogG_wMohammadAG: for cssu22:50
MohammadAGthe one that reboots the device when a system app dies22:50
MohammadAGwhat bug22:50
MohammadAGerr, start over22:50
ZogG_wthe one that apps don't start from desktop icons22:51
ZogG_wafter last updates thye stop working22:51
ZogG_wthought it was app releated22:51
ZogG_wbut as ther are several apps22:51
MohammadAGDrLaunch or normal shortcuts?22:51
ZogG_weven from dash22:51
ZogG_wand from terminal it works fine22:51
MohammadAGany python app?22:52
ZogG_wpapertoss, bouncebounce22:52
ZogG_wand now i remember somebody had trouble with heroes port22:52
MohammadAGmenu launches bouncebounce fine for me22:52
ZogG_wit doesn't for me and some other guys22:52
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ZogG_wit launches and crashes22:53
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ZogG_wcan't get info as from teminal it does work22:53
MohammadAGso does the desktop icon22:53
ZogG_wwait i'll link you22:53
MohammadAGbasically, it seems to be user specific22:54
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GuySofthi all, what do people mean here by 'reflashing' they mean the kernel? or wiping out the system?
lcukoh N810, how awesome you are: After my reflash, it is fine now. 10 hours later, it still reads 10 days standby, 7 hours of use.23:05
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lcukGuySoft, I would take that as an OS reflash23:05
lcuknot just the kernel23:05
GuySoftlcuk, and how would i restore it all back? it would be a pain23:06
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lcukthat is not the question you asked23:06
lcukso far you have not indicated you need to do anything23:06
GuySoftlcuk, i have problems with power drain23:08
GuySoftlasts around 5 hours23:08
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lcukthen check what is running23:08
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ZogG_w__MohammadAG: i was on phone and than webchat lagged23:11
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ZogG_w__MohammadAG: from second post and on23:19
GuySoftlcuk, i did, nothing takes the cpu, except maemo-launcher, and sometimes browserd (even though i didnt open a browser since the devices was started)23:20
ZogG_w__also as i understand papertoss has same issues23:20
ZogG_w__lcukn900: hey23:20
GuySoftlcuk, you can see
MohammadAGZogG_w__, #30 doesn't have the CSSU, and is having the problem23:21
GuySoftthis is right after boot23:21
MohammadAGso please, don't blame the CSSU :P23:21
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ZogG_w__MohammadAG: i don't blame, where did i. i just thought it was cssu releated =)23:22
ZogG_w__as i saw several people having same thing23:22
ZogG_w__probably somthing broke it during updates23:22
ZogG_w__some python package23:22
ZogG_w__MohammadAG: do u have profileX thing?23:23
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ZogG_w__what the F23:28
ZogG_w__just connected second monitor to laptop23:28
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ZogG_w__and using mplayer on fullscreen just get half picture on one and other half on other =)23:28
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MohammadAGZogG_w__, no, I'm quite happy with 2 profiles :P23:30
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lcukGuySoft, do you use gps and stuff?23:56
lcukZogG_w__, N900 DE is the open source aim at the moment:
lcukmonitor its progress and get involved :)23:58
GuySoftlcuk, no23:58
GuySoftlcuk, i think something is draining it23:58

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