IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-03-11

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kpomanI dont understand why the cam turns off before starting communication00:09
* trumee thinks it is useless to setup sip on N900 since most of the time it doesnt work00:09
* Arkenoi uses sip about 3 times as much as gsm calls00:10
kpoman this one00:10
DocScrutinizertrumee: mine works lile a charm most of the time. Actually it failed not even with your account I tested. Not so deverely as you described it anyway00:11
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trumeeDocScrutinizer, i still use it daily but all the while doing hold/unhold of the call00:13
DocScrutinizeraaah, giving friggin swap time to spool out the IOs00:13
trumeeand i am tired of complaining to Nokia about it. Hopefully Collabora and Nokia will do a better job with N95000:13
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DocScrutinizerI doubt there'll be improvements that would help you00:14
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kpoman_the god damned dlink wifi router is messing around00:14
* trumee needs to map the camera button to hold/unhold the call.00:14
trumeeDocScrutinizer, i raised it in meego-qa list, but it was ignored00:15
DocScrutinizerevidently your problem is related to your particular usage pattern or setup of registrar/proxy/gateway/NAT/router/blablub00:15
trumeeDocScrutinizer, but i will keep hoping00:15
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DocScrutinizerIt probably got a CND00:16
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* trumee will test N950 first regarding sip behaviour before buying it00:16
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DocScrutinizermeh, test your next router with SIP before buying it00:17
trumeeDocScrutinizer, i have already bought two routers!00:17
DocScrutinizeralso test your SIP after installation of additional apps00:17
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trumeeDocScrutinizer, tested that too, did a clean flash.00:17
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DocScrutinizerhmm, then it's maybe your internet provider00:18
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trumeeDocScrutinizer, why does it work perfectly with my hardware ATA and desktop sip clients?00:18
DocScrutinizersome of then do nasty things for traffic shaping00:18
DocScrutinizermaybe because those set ToS for example00:19
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DocScrutinizermaybe your WLAN is borked00:19
trumeeDocScrutinizer, ekiga/twinkle ?00:19
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DocScrutinizerthe router00:19
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trumeeDocScrutinizer, laptop is also on the same wifi and twinkle works fine. did i mention i have tried two routers already00:20
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DocScrutinizertrumee: you're aware more than one sip client under same router *never* works quite nice, without massive config?00:21
trumeeDocScrutinizer, anyways this discussion is futile. i have come to terms with shitty sip on N90000:21
DocScrutinizerSIP on N900 is just fine00:21
trumeeDocScrutinizer, my N95 work perfect00:21
trumeeDocScrutinizer, did you see the bugs on bugzilla?00:22
trumeeDocScrutinizer, and the tmo thread on it.00:22
DocScrutinizeryeah, and - what can I say - as long as nobody can duplicate and you are not willing to exactly analyze the traffic to the point where it's getting clear what's happening...00:23
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trumeeDocScrutinizer, i have had long session with dev fro collabora. i have sent tcpdump logs to Nokia dev00:24
trumeeDocScrutinizer, both have confirmed the problem. But they dont have a solution for it00:24
trumeeDocScrutinizer, and i mean long sessionS.00:25
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DocScrutinizerso what IS the problem then? And please don't answer "stuttering audio"00:25
trumeeDocScrutinizer, collabora dev has taken tcpdumps from my system and he believes it is a issue with gstreamer rtpjitterbuffer00:25
DocScrutinizerif they confirm the problem then they must have a clear idea what it is, technically00:26
trumeeDocScrutinizer, it seems the gstreamer code for it is very fragile00:26
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trumeeDocScrutinizer, that is the problem. the solution is not very clear00:26
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kpomanDocScrutinizer:  you are able to do videoconf with which provider ?00:27
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DocScrutinizerthe solution then is "fix jitterbuffer in gstreamer RTP plugin", a workaround is "use a line with less jitter"00:27
DocScrutinizerkpoman: I am not able to do videocalls as I lack any videocall enabled peer to call00:28
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DocScrutinizerthink I told that before00:28
trumeekpoman, i have tried videocall between N900 and ekiga00:28
kpomanit is really strange ..00:28
kpomantrumee: could you get it working ? how ?00:29
trumeekpoman, but that is using my own asterisk server00:29
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kpomanoh ok not the ekiga servers ?00:29
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trumeekpoman, no00:29 is forwarding my videocall, and when peer signals he can't do video, the video part vanishes and call becomes a normal audio call via SIP00:29
kpomansipgate ... let me see if there is something to configure on the ekiga account00:29
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kpomanthe strange thing is I am able to do videocall from pc/ekiga to the sip device tandberg00:31
bjvi thought i could start browser on on 810 by running ssh user@ "export DISPLAY=:0.0;tear file:///tmp/"00:31
bjvdid not work, though00:31
DocScrutinizerkpoman: so what's the registrar (= account) you are using on ekiga?00:31
kpomanDocScrutinizer: kpoman@ekiga.net00:32
bjvthe standard 'recover previous session' came up, but it had broken out of the GTK theme or something, just grey buttons00:32
DocScrutinizerand you can connect with ekiga softphone to that tandberg that way?00:32
bjvhit cancel, browser never opened.   just "*** glibc detected *** tear: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x40ab72c8 ***  Aborted"00:32
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kpomanyep, with video00:33
DocScrutinizerso you should use exactly same procedure on N90000:33
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DocScrutinizersame account data, same callee addr00:33
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kpomanDocScrutinizer: could it be because of the codecs ?00:35
kpomanwhich codec should be supported by n900 ? h261 ?00:36
DocScrutinizerthe tandberg and the N900 should have logs somewhere00:36
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DocScrutinizerI'd guess yes00:36
DocScrutinizeryou can easily tell by snooping the SIP data with wireshark, esp the SDP messages in SIP protocol00:37
DocScrutinizerin SDP both clients offer their set of supported codecs plus preference, and agree on the best one00:38
DocScrutinizersimply put00:38
kpomanok now it is a bit better,00:38
DocScrutinizerit's all plaintext00:38
kpomannow I do receive, on the n900 a bit of video from the peer, then the communication shuts down :s00:39
DocScrutinizerthat's clearly some transmission thing then00:39
kpomanDocScrutinizer: i checked all the codecs on the pc / ekiga00:39
DocScrutinizeror some weird bug in the codecs00:39
kpomanDocScrutinizer: i dont see n900 cam on the pc, but do see some images from the pc on the n900 ... then it shuts down ...00:39
kpomanlet me deselect codecs one by one00:40
DocScrutinizeralas I have no idea where and how to configure/check the codec priority and supported/enabled codecs on N900 telepathy stack00:40
DocScrutinizerkpoman: if you can get some call-details from ekiga (I never used it, I am a twinkle man), then you can easily tell which codec been used in that last semi working call00:41
kpomanDocScrutinizer: I could see myself on the pc, then it shutdowns00:42
DocScrutinizerthat's the nice thing about twinkle, you can configure absolutely everything. Alas it comes without video support00:42
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kpomanmaybe the ISP is blocking somehow00:44
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DocScrutinizer[2011-03-10 22:45:11] <DocScrutinizer> your 3G provider might even block SIP on purpose00:45
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kpomanmaybe, I will have to try at home00:46
DocScrutinizeryeah, in-session codec-switching to adapt for a bandwidth getting lower is one of the most complicated and poorly supported things of VoIP00:47
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kpomanthe strange thing is n900 not supporting h261 which is the older most common codec00:47
DocScrutinizerI'd guess unless you got a god 3.5G signal *with HSUPA* you mustn't expect videocalls over GSM to work00:48
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DocScrutinizerit doesn't? how did you find out?00:48
kpomanit kinda worked from 2 pc's connected with 3g modems00:49
DocScrutinizerconnect N900 to same 3G modem then?00:49
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crashanddie_8.9MB/s over wifi00:49
DocScrutinizerenough for proper video :-D00:50
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cehtehmore than my wlan :P00:50
crashanddie_wifi N, that is.00:50
DocScrutinizernot on N90000:50
crashanddie_computer -> router00:50
cehtehthe mmc card wioll be the bottleneck then :P00:50
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crashanddie_the router, provided by my ISP00:53
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crashanddie_actually has a torrent client in it...00:53
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crashanddie_I know routers with torrent clients aren't such a big deal, they're usually not provided by ISPs, is all.00:53
crashanddie_And the remote control has a firmware...00:54
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DocScrutinizererr wut?00:54
kpomancool it worked now !!! with codec h26300:55
DocScrutinizersee?! :-D00:55
DocScrutinizerprobably you are standing next to a window now, so your 3G signal is better00:56
javispedromy ISP just offered me a $10/month rebate if I give up my IP...00:56
kpomannice, it doesnt hang up anymore00:56
ds3javispedro: what is special about your IP?00:56
DocScrutinizerso IPs are 10$ / 1 now00:56
crashanddie_it's IPv400:57
crashanddie_which means it's ancient00:57
crashanddie_and precious00:57
DocScrutinizerit's rare00:57
ds3thought maybe you are the last available IP on a block or something like that00:57
DocScrutinizercollector's item00:57
kpomanok so basically, had issues with the wifi router (dlink dir300 firmware 1.05), and also codec needs to be h263, and it is extremly awful, but it works00:57
DocScrutinizernow you can optimize00:58
kpomanyes, I will try other codecs now00:58
javispedroI guess the latest "ipv4s have now really ran out" slashdot warning was true...00:58
DocScrutinizeruse wireshark, trace the SIP traffic00:58
DocScrutinizeranalyze the SDP00:58
DocScrutinizeryou'll see what codecs are offered00:58
kpomanthe phone announces it knows
kpomanI did a wireshark on my pc to see announcements00:59
kpomanthen I saw those00:59
kpomanok, with h264 the connexion is dropped01:00
DocScrutinizerIIRC the codecs are in m or a records01:00
kpomannow trying theora01:00
DocScrutinizershould work better01:00
DocScrutinizerif supported by N90001:01
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DocScrutinizerof course that's a notion I'm pulling outa my a.... as I never used either01:02
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kpomanok, with theora video is disabled but connexion not dropped01:02
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DocScrutinizervideo disabled means one end doesn't support it01:03
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kpomanh261 also video disabled01:03
DocScrutinizerN900 though might support video codecs that are unsupported or crappy on ekiga softphone01:04
tripz0isn't it funny that android 3 now has gtalk video calling and the n900 had it last year?01:04
DocScrutinizerbut work nice with tandberg01:04
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crashanddie_there's a frigging gaming console in the tv module01:05
kpomanh263 1998: very strange, the led starts blinking and no video, however not disabled nor connexion dropped01:05
DocScrutinizerI.E ekiga&tandberg->nice doesn't mean ekiga&N900->crap is N900's fault01:06
kpomanhehehe I know, maybe I need to install more codecs on the phone. let me check this with apt-get01:06
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer & javispedro: games available on the tv module of my router:
DocScrutinizerI think I've seen that01:07
DocScrutinizersilly games01:07
DocScrutinizerthat's the router with accelerometer, no?01:07
javispedroAsphalt 5 HD for iPad?01:07
DocScrutinizeryeah, I seem to remember some games shown in a youtube01:07
crashanddie_javispedro: well, not only for iPad apparently :) But yeah, it's the same game01:08
javispedroah, flash crashed, then youtube decided the video was done and skipped to the next one.01:08
DocScrutinizergood recovery strategy01:08
javispedrosee, the entire firefox plugin separation thing is all benefits for the end user! flash crashes and you never notice it!01:08
DocScrutinizerwell, iPhone does same thing for whole apps :-P01:09
DocScrutinizerI've been told01:09
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DocScrutinizerbasically every app running "under DSME"01:10
javispedrothat's also windows > xp strategy01:11
javispedro"oh, I've never seen my vista blue screen. however, my power supply must be flacky because it reboots every so often." yeah.01:12
DocScrutinizerfreenode is incredible. users from the Americas are logged in via servers in Frankfurt or in Vilnius, while german users are routed via USA01:12
javispedrocrashanddie_: so even a router manufacturer can get legally licensed games while Nokia can't.01:13
javispedro(for Maemo that is)01:13
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* DocScrutinizer cackles01:13
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DocScrutinizermaemo is targeted at windows users - those are supposed to lift their games01:14
* DocScrutinizer hides01:14
crashanddie_night people01:16
crashanddie_oh, and btw01:16
crashanddie_just for fun: my blackberry crashed tonight01:16
DocScrutinizertime for breakfast01:16
crashanddie_It was sitting there, on my desk, I'm watching a movie01:16
crashanddie_screen lights up, I expect a call01:16
crashanddie_instead, white screen, and in tiny characters: "JVM error 545" or something01:17
tripz0like that?01:17
DocScrutinizermeh, my diablo on N810 does that all the time01:17
javispedroyeah, flugly bme01:17
tripz0dance with the devil, what do you expect?01:17
crashanddie_never had issues with my blackberries in the past01:17
crashanddie_I'll just get it replaced tomorrow or something01:18
DocScrutinizerI'm honestly tempted to set R&D01:18
tripz0i feel sorry for you that you have a blackberry01:18
tripz0it's worse than symbian01:18
crashanddie_don't be condescending, little one, that's my role01:18
tripz0i'm being empathetic ;)01:18
crashanddie_Blackberry for business is awesome01:18
crashanddie_better than Maemo/iOS/Symbian/WP701:19
DocScrutinizeron OpenMoko all the engineers got blackberries so they can be reached X-P01:19
crashanddie_Android, I knew I missed one01:19
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: haha01:19
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: indeed01:19
tripz0not because i doubt, I just never understood why blackberries where good for anything01:20
crashanddie_tripz0: one week uptime? Integrated mail that can be managed by *real* servers? Remote wipe? Data encryption? Password protection? Integration with all calendar systems out there?01:20
javispedro*propietary* calendar systems.01:20
DocScrutinizerjust one bit that's een more funny, we managed our internal documents via google-docs or what's that crap called01:20
tripz0to all those questions I answer, meh01:20
crashanddie_the keyboard is fantastic, (I'm talking about the full qwerty keyboards here, not the half-assed 12 button keyboards)01:20
crashanddie_tripz0: can I assume you've never worked in a corporate environment?01:21
tripz0the last thing i want is for IT to touch my phone01:21
jacekowskicrashanddie_: any phone that's fully compatible with active sync can do that01:21
tripz0crashanddie, you would assume wrong ;)01:21
jacekowskii had my encounter with blackberry storm01:21
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jacekowskiand it was a disaster01:21
crashanddie_yeah, that was the shittiest phone ever01:22
kpomanDocScrutinizer: do you know which package could contain codecs ? I read that h264 should be supported on n900 ...01:22
jacekowskiphone crashed01:22
jacekowskidone all kinds of stuff01:22
crashanddie_I loved how the accelerometer worked01:22
jacekowskiexcept making fone calls01:22
crashanddie_you'd flip from horizontal to vertical01:22
DocScrutinizerkpoman: sorry01:22
jacekowskiand no wifi01:22
crashanddie_it would take about 30 or 40 seconds to notice01:22
kpomanDocScrutinizer: this one seems good:
DocScrutinizerkpoman: it not only needs codec but also the telepathy and probably gstreamer plugin01:23
jacekowskikpoman: there is a lot of different h264 profiles01:23
crashanddie_it wouldn't manage switching from 3g to 2g properly, so you'd get lost calls continuously01:23
jacekowskikpoman: and only one is supported01:23
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kpomanoops, all are already installed01:23
kpomanjacekowski: yep I saw the most basic one ..01:23
tripz0i have a laptop that IT gave me with windows XP on it. it was supposed to be like super secure and crap.  Then mcafee identified a core system file as a virus and removed it along with my ability to boot01:23
tripz0then i put ubuntu on it01:23
jacekowskitripz0: well, that was well known mcafee fail01:24
kpomando you know which streaming framework is used on the SIP client ? Videolan ? ffmpeg ? gstreamer ?01:24
jacekowskitripz0: avg did similiar shit couple weeks ago01:24
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DocScrutinizerkpoman: I'd bet gstreamer01:24
crashanddie_My work laptop, a dell whatever, the network card crashes continously01:24
crashanddie_the ethernet card, that is01:24
tripz0so why would I expose my phone to the same awesome IT security?01:25
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crashanddie_on windows, blue screen of death01:25
crashanddie_On Ubuntu, network dies, reload module, and you're good to go01:25
crashanddie_tripz0: because they pay for my bill?01:25
tripz0they can keep their 50 bucks and stay out of my life/work01:25
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lcukcrashanddie_, did you file a bug?01:26
tripz0get more work done without them01:26
crashanddie_tripz0: I get free phone, free data usage, free sms? I'd be racking 2 or 3 hundred euros a month01:26
crashanddie_lcuk: to whom? Intel?01:26
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: same problem here, though I always thought that's the card driver and not the hw01:26
lcukcrashanddie_, or Microsoft or whoever01:26
jacekowskidell sucks01:26
crashanddie_lcuk: I sent the report01:26
tripz0crashanddie_, point there.  200EU is a bit expensive01:26
DocScrutinizerSiemens esprimo :-P01:27
DocScrutinizerthat one sucks for sure01:27
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: yeah, I was pretty sure it was the driver, until I noticed that over the weekend the network would die01:27
crashanddie_(on Ubuntu)01:27
tripz0but seriously... unlimited sms/data shouldn't be that much01:27
tripz0voice can send you into triple digits though01:27
crashanddie_tripz0: I call international and roam a lot.01:27
DocScrutinizermine dies when router gets that annoying forced disconnect on ADSL01:27
DocScrutinizeronly sometimes, probably when a pkg is truncated01:28
lcuktripz0, have you ever been in charge of a corporate network?01:28
lcukie, ever had to manage bandwidth01:28
crashanddie_obviously not01:28
tripz0lcuk, only a corporation of one01:28
crashanddie_hah, you still get the 24h DSL disconnect?01:28
crashanddie_I thought that was a memory of the past01:28
lcuktripz0, hence you thinking unlimited bandwidth01:28
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tripz0lcuk, i mean cellular data costs01:28
crashanddie_lcuk: I've got unlimited data01:28
tripz0you can get 'unlimited' data for like $30/mo01:29
DocScrutinizerplus postfix drives me crazy since months (years?)01:29
crashanddie_It's this "professional" plan, whatever that means, but basically, I don't get cut off after 2 gigs or whatever, it just keeps on going01:29
lcukcrashanddie_, and you pay proportionatly more01:30
DocScrutinizeretc/postfix/relay.db missing file01:30
tripz0i know very well bandwidth is limited.  I see that every night when I have that slight latency issue while playing call of duty that gets me killed01:30
crashanddie_As my team is all over the place, they were happy to provide me with that plan after the first two or three months I racked bills of nearly a grand01:30
DocScrutinizereach minute01:30
crashanddie_My biggest bill? 1800 quid in a week.01:30
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crashanddie_That was calling a premium support line in the US, from the Ukraine, using a UK-based cell phone.01:31
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: (24h) not here in Germany01:31
DocScrutinizert-com :-(01:31
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crashanddie_Irony in that story? The customer in the Ukraine is on the biggest mobile phone companies in Russia/Ukraine.01:32
crashanddie_And they couldn't provide us with a bloody phone line :P01:32
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crashanddie_Also, I do have to test premium rate phone services, it's kinda in my job description, so yeah, I do rack up high bills regularly01:33
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: sounds like sheer fun01:34
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jacekowskicrashanddie_: you get paid to call all sex lines and stuff?01:35
jacekowskii like your job01:35
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crashanddie_we only have a couple sex lines in our client list01:35
crashanddie_so never had to call them01:35
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* nidO curses cyberduck01:37
* Proteous quacks at cyberduck01:37
DocScrutinizertztztz, my friend fixed that DNS server at 23:30 in the night01:38
DocScrutinizerweird stuff, my ZNC on a box in that domain broke down, well maybe due to failing rdns01:39
bjvdoes vgba have a keybinding for freeze/restore state? or just the menu items01:40
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kpomanok now h264 works too !01:40
kpomanit is unstable but it works now,01:40
kpomanI dont know which of the steps solved the problem: overclocked n900 to 1ghz, installed apt-get install libosip2-4, and lowered to 128kbps01:41
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kpomanDocScrutinizer: do you know where the call logs what happens ? or if there is a way to enable verbosing ?01:42
Corsachmhm, something I didn't try in a while is jabber video call with desktop clients like empathy01:42
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DocScrutinizer51kpoman: sorry, I'm missing any decent docs about telepathy01:43
kpomanno problem01:43
kpomanthe image is very good with h264 however a big big lag01:43
DocScrutinizer51where did you lower to 128?01:44
kpomanin the ekiga client on the pc01:44
DocScrutinizer51that's most likely it01:44
DocScrutinizer51kpoman: I honestly suggest to stop OCing if possible01:46
kpomanwhy ?01:46
DocScrutinizer51your usecase is the most valid one for OC I heard so far, but nevertheless 1GHz will do no good to CPU01:47
DocScrutinizer51the gates erode01:47
kpomanyep sure but is ondemand01:48
DocScrutinizer51(see wiki:electromigration)01:48
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DocScrutinizer51:nod: but I guess on video calls it will demand max clock freq no matter if needed or not01:49
kpomanyes sure01:49
kpomanI am right now monitoring with conky01:49
DocScrutinizer51and 1000MHz is really high01:49
kpomanit is really stable though01:50
kpomanput that 3 days ago, no problems at all01:50
DocScrutinizer51see if you get away with 800 or even default01:50
kpomansure but the UI is less responsive01:50
kpomanand has lot of lags everywhere01:50
DocScrutinizer51EM wear is a slow nonfreversible process01:50
kpomanok time to go home :) i will keep testing there ! will reconnect in some minutes (it is almost 9PM here in brasilia)01:51
DocScrutinizer51a bit later here01:51
kpomanc ya ! thanks for the tips01:52
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DocScrutinizerOK, now a almost last word on OC: page 122    3.3 Recommended Operating Conditions03:04
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DocScrutinizer100K total PowerOnHours when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 (overdrive = 600MHz) to less than 23K POH.  --- for commercial grade device (up to 95°C)03:06
javispedrohowever none of those is the 100% equivalent to the 3430 iirc03:06
DocScrutinizer50K total POH when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 to less than 10K POH. Total FaultsInThousand(?) Rate increases from design goal of 50FIT to 70FIT under these accelerated conditions. (for MIL(?) 105°C max devices)03:07
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: errr, afaik we got a 3530 in N90003:09
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure if we got an A type (MIL 105°)03:09
javispedron900 is officially 3430 -- while 35xx are just "non mass market" equivalents to 34xx, I'm not sure the 3530 maps exactly to the 343003:10
javispedroas far as I know, the 3530 is the one in Pandora which was rated up to 720Mhz03:11
DocScrutinizerisn't it the other way round03:11
DocScrutinizeraah market of the masses, yeah03:11
javispedrosame for 36xx vs 37xx03:12
DocScrutinizernah, 35xx is rated for commercial usage (like in FIT etc, warranty, guaranteed time til EOL), and otherwise identical to 34xx AFAIK03:12
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javispedroI believe it's the other way =)03:14
DocScrutinizerthe max freq rating is a property of the particular build you order, as 35xx is "built to order" while 34xx is sold at TI specs03:14
javispedroeither way doesn't matter, it's nearly bed time =)03:14
DocScrutinizerwhatever it is, you see the time til failure gets reduced drastically by a 10°C more03:15
DocScrutinizerand could easily be as short as 10k hours operation time @ 600MHz03:15
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DocScrutinizerwhere you expect to see 7 of 100 devices broken after that 10kh03:17
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DocScrutinizerincreasing temperature or clock marginally will exponentially reduce lifetime until devices start to burn out03:18
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DocScrutinizerat 800MHz we might be at 1000h03:18
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DocScrutinizerall heavily depending on Nokia's temperature concept in N900, which might even cause CPU to heat up to way more than 105° when overclocked03:19
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DocScrutinizerwell, maybe javispedro is right, and it's the 35xx series that are for normal mortals and the 34xx that are for OEMs building >10^6 devices03:41
* nox- suddenly has mental images of n900 with builtin fans...03:42
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krayonI guess the phone would be slightly less portable if you just cable tied some fans to it too :/03:52
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dangergrrli am pleased03:56
dangergrrli can stream pandora riding down the road and rebroadcast it to my fm radio on my bike03:57
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DocScrutinizerhi dangergrrl04:04
DocScrutinizer(fans) I got a few nice ideas to build forced ventilation into handheld without using classical fans of any miniaturized size04:06
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dangergrrldoes air even get into an n900?04:07
DocScrutinizerwell, between kbd and screen there's no case, it's "open"04:07
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DocScrutinizerpretty good dust collector04:08
DocScrutinizerI didn't refer to N900 about those ventilation ideas04:08
dangergrrlwell untill proven otherwise i still think it's the best handheld linux pc around04:09
DocScrutinizerI invented a few concepts for the never-built Openmoko gta04-mk2 I designed a while ago04:09
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: you're in good company about that notion here04:11
dangergrrlso what device can i get with dual core arm that's documented well enough for kernel hacking?04:11
DocScrutinizerdual arm cores? errr...04:12
dangergrrli talked someone into ressurecting the utah oskit04:12
DocScrutinizerwell, actually N900 has 2 arm cores, one in SoC and one in BB5 cmt04:12
dangergrrlhe wants me to help i think04:12
dangergrrli'm mostly interested in SMP stuff04:12
kpomanDocScrutinizer: ok I am at home and now it works really fine !04:13
kpomanthe codec is ugly for the phone04:13
kpomanbut I do see the image perfectly on the phone from the pc04:13
kpomanbut on the other side it is ugly04:14
DocScrutinizerthe cam is ugly on the N900 :-P That's not the codec's fault04:14
kpomando you know if there is any kind of tuning params for telepathy ?04:14
DocScrutinizerget more light, that helps a lot04:14
kpomanyep I did that but the image is still ugly04:15
DocScrutinizerfront cam is really abysmal04:15
kpomansometimes it does a complete frame04:15
kpomanbut then starts adding ugly boxes04:15
DocScrutinizerthat's codec in fact04:15
kpomanI dont know if it is a bandwidth problem, would like to check those settings. where are they ???04:16
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kpomanthis is interesting:
DocScrutinizerask colabora about where are those 300+ missing pages of docs about telepathy04:16
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kpomanlet me see if it is related to bandwidth or codec04:18
kpomanI will do a home home call04:19
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DocScrutinizergstreamer-codecs-ugly I've seen on N90004:19
DocScrutinizermake sure it's actually not running across your internet connection twice04:20
DocScrutinizera lot of routers can't reach their own public IP from W(L)AN04:21
kpomanapparently there are issues with wifi access points or routers for SIP technology04:21
kpomanI had to update my router's firmware (ddwrt)04:22
DocScrutinizerand of course you can't call yourself, so you'd need a second account somewhere I guess04:22
kpomanthe strange part is now my pc connects via wifi but my phone doesnt via wifi, only via 3g04:22
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kpomanI did create 2 accounts :p04:24
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kpomanand call from wifi to 3g etc..04:25
kpomanit would be really nice to find logs about wtf is going on there04:25
dangergrrlso sipgate in us is out of numbers for now04:28
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kpomanDocScrutinizer: ok all the logs seem to go to dbus. I launched dbus-monitor and see lot of junk there04:34
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: duh, never knew they are in USA now as well04:34
DocScrutinizerkpoman: dbus aren't logs, and you'll see lots and lots of stuff unrealted to telepathy04:35
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DocScrutinizerkpoman: try lsof04:36
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kpomanit doesnt show anything related to sofia nor sip04:39
DocScrutinizerFOO_PERSIST=1 FOO_DEBUG=all /path/to/telepathy-foo 2>&1 | tee foo.log04:39
DocScrutinizer(where foo should be gabble for Jabber, and the name of the relevant CM for the protocol you're having trouble with...)04:39 but they have no more numbetrs for now04:40
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kpomanit is /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-sofiasip04:41
DocScrutinizersounds correct04:41
kpomando I do SOFIA_PERSIST=1 SOFIA_DEBUG=all /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-sofiasip ?04:41
DocScrutinizerSOFIASIP I guess04:41
kpomanwhat is tee ? tail -f ?04:41
DocScrutinizertee is a cmd04:42
DocScrutinizerit logs to a file AND stdout04:42
kpomanDocScrutinizer: well It didnt print a single thing04:42
DocScrutinizeryou can use >foo.log instead of |tee foo.log, if your're not interested in realtime output04:43
DocScrutinizeryou've read the website?04:43
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DocScrutinizer>>Obtaining logs04:43
kpomanmaybe I did run with root instead of user ?04:44
kpomanno, same thing as user04:44
kpomanlet me see the link04:44
DocScrutinizerI apologize to colabora for my rant about the missing 300 pages, seems I found them :-)04:46
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kpomanI will ask on telepathy channel04:52
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DocScrutinizer  The offer will contain zero or more media streams (each media stream   is described by an "m=" line and its associated attributes)04:55
DocScrutinizer>>In all cases, the formats in the "m=" line MUST be listed in order of   preference, with the first format listed being preferred.  In this   case, preferred means that the recipient of the offer SHOULD use the   format with the highest preference that is acceptable to it.04:57
DocScrutinizer>> If the bandwidth attribute is present for a stream, it indicates the   desired bandwidth that the offerer would like to receive.04:59
DocScrutinizer>> If multiple media streams of different types are present, it means   that the offerer wishes to use those streams at the same time.  A   typical case is an audio and a video stream as part of a   videoconference.05:00
kpomanjust another question : I am trying easy debian. why is it EXT2 instead of EXT3 ?05:01
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DocScrutinizerhmm, possibly because ext3 isn't so extremely useful on flash stoarge?05:02
kpomanDocScrutinizer: I had reboots while updating and then ext2 got corrupted05:02
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DocScrutinizerext3 also can get corrupted05:03
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DocScrutinizerwell, you can eaily convert to ext3 if you like05:04
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kpomanDocScrutinizer: I was just wondering why ext2, maybe faster ? maybe safer for a flash memory ? donno05:06
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DocScrutinizersafer for flash, ext3 adds write actions when transferring the log to real fs05:07
DocScrutinizererr s/log/journal/05:07
kpomanok I see05:08
DocScrutinizer>>An offered stream MAY be rejected in the answer, ... To reject an offered   stream, the port number in the corresponding stream in the answer   MUST be set to zero.05:10
DocScrutinizer^^^this means when your video call gets rejected for the video part, then the stream m= line in SDP msg has a port number of zero05:12
DocScrutinizer...while tracing the SDP offer msg generated by N900 calling out tells you what codecs the N900 supports, and in which priority sort order05:13
DocScrutinizerwireshark dissects these SDP mgs nicely05:13
pupnik_morning :>05:14
DocScrutinizermorning pupnik_05:14
pupnik_biughtr an old webcam for a couple euro and it was plug n play with kernel05:15
DocScrutinizerkpoman: I.E. you see an inbound INVITE SIP msg that has a SDP section05:15
DocScrutinizeron your PC05:16
DocScrutinizerin this SDP section the N900 tells ekiga what codecs to use05:17
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DocScrutinizerekiga will choose the first codec in that list which it supports, and answer with a similar SIP msg with SDP section05:19
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kpomansorry I just got back here05:24
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DocScrutinizerkpoman: NB also for your port forwards etc: >>> The connection address and port in the answer indicate the address   where the answerer wishes to receive media (in the case of RTP, RTCP   will be received on the port which is one higher unless there is an   explicit indication otherwise).  This address and port MUST be   present even for sendonly streams; in the case of RTP, the port one   higher is still used to receive RTCP.05:25
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* ShadowJK suspects ext3 is better than ext2 on flash anyway05:27
DocScrutinizerreally? how that?05:28
DocScrutinizerwell, journal rarely has erasepage misses05:29
ShadowJKAnd ext2/ext3 assumes harddrives either succeed or fail at writing 512 byte sectors, and everything adjacent to those 512 byte sectors is left intact if stuff fails05:29
DocScrutinizerstill if the writeout of the whole page gets aborted it's not any better than ext205:29
ShadowJKthen flash goes and blows away 128k chunks of your data :D05:30
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ShadowJKmy theory is that ext3 works faster (I saw that in benchmarks) because it first writes to journal and then when you're not doing much it can go sprinkle the journal all over the place05:31
ShadowJKthe contents of the journal that is05:31
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ShadowJKMy ad-hoc "interactivity" benchmark showed ext4 as 10 times faster than ext3 anyway05:32
ShadowJKwhich is probably thanks to delayed allocation05:32
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djszapiHow can I disable the voice pronouncing the time (no idea in which case and for what event, but randomly.....) on the swipe unlock screen ?05:50
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DocScrutinizerdjszapi: err wut? Acoustic delusions?05:54
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DocScrutinizerwhich system?05:55
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trip0hmm... why can't i video call using gtalk to a honeycomb tablet (that supports it) from my n900?06:00
trip0but i can gtalk video call from my n900 to another n900 and from my n900 to a linux computer running the empathy client06:01
trip0but i can't from empathy to the android tablet either06:01
* trip0 calls BS on android06:01
trip0they must be doing something no?06:01
trip0i can only vid call from gtalk in a browser to the tablet06:02
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kpomancould someone please help me a bit ? I lost my sources.list on easy debian06:44
kpomanhelp !06:44
kpomanif someone could post it somewhere ?06:44
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kpomanI installed a lame app, netselect-apt , it took about 5 minutes and then killed the sources.list file06:45
kpomanthis really sucks06:45
kpomanwhy am i so unlucky damned06:46
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kpomanok got it06:48
kpomanis there a way to change the mirror to a brazil one ?06:49
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kpomanwell this easy debian image thing is junky07:17
kpomanit always reboot07:17
kpomanit always corrupts the fs07:17
kpomanit really sucks07:17
kpomanit cannot be corrected, fsck.ext2 kills it all07:17
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kpomanok I am putting easy debian in an ext3 fs07:28
kpomanhope it will solve this mess07:28
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pisadaanHi, I am about to install Easy Desbian to MicroSd. Do I need to partition the card first? Sorry for the newbie question.07:48
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DocScrutinizerouch heavy earthquake and tsunami in Japan08:43
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_|Nix|_Hey! Does anyone know why omweather keeps timing out when I try to update it?09:19
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dangergrrlbroke it again09:44
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dangergrrlflasher is my friend09:44
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robbiethe1stDarnit, stop breaking things!09:44
pupnik_the interesting thing to me is09:47
pupnik_how many hundreds of people were logged into #maemo09:47
pupnik_who never talked09:47
pupnik_that says something about how committed they were to the project09:47
pupnik_"i'm getting paid to idle here"09:47
pupnik_those shits can go work for microsoft09:48
pupnik_and i hope they get cancer09:48
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ruskieis active participation actually required to support something?09:49
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pupnik_yes it is09:49
dangergrrlright now my status is i fail to hack my n90009:49
dangergrrland i have to reflash it often09:49
ruskiedangergrrl, how often was it so far?09:49
* ArkN900 is on fruct meego conference. fist presentation was to be Nokia, but was cancelled (as expected)09:49
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dangergrrltwice in two days09:50
ruskieso 4 times so far09:50
ruskiestill below average ;)09:50
dangergrrltwice total09:50
ruskieway below average09:50
ArkN900only intel guys are talking so far09:50
dangergrrli crashed it yesterday09:50
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TheJnokia fist presentation.. lol09:50
dangergrrlflashed it and decided to call myself ahead09:50
ArkN900good typo :)09:51
TheJyeah :)09:51
ArkN900i'd even say middle finger09:51
dangergrrli think we've already seen nokia fist their customers09:51
TheJaaarrrgghh LOL09:52
ArkN900well, really maybe more like fist09:52
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dangergrrlmiocrosoft spends far too much money messing up our toys09:53
ArkN900atom shit talk all the way, boring09:54
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ruskieit's intel... do you expect ANYTHING else than x86 arch???09:55
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dangergrrli thought intel had ARM rights too09:55
ArkN900well, intel was involved in arm iirc09:55
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ruskieyeah involved... maybe 0.00001% of their business09:56
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ArkN900btw they say meego is completely opensource and has no proprietary compopnents09:57
ArkN900isn't it bs?09:58
ruskieArkN900, well the core probably is09:58
ArkN900ah, the core09:58
ruskieno clue about the UX layer but I thought that was as well09:59
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ruskiethe problem comes from all the non intel x86 hw that gets stuck.. and hell even intels own hw requires bloby firmware09:59
dangergrrlmeego has fewer closed components09:59
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pupnik_microsoft is a twrrorust organiyation09:59
dangergrrli haven't utsl much less booted it however09:59
dangergrrlare you welsh or something?10:00
pupnik_phone kbd10:01
ruskiedangergrrl, the amount of closed components depends also on the vendor and the hardware10:01
dangergrrlthose welsh like to use w as a vowel10:01
ruskieI believe android is also completly open source...10:01
ruskieuntil you put it on a device where the vendor adds it's own closed components and closed drivers10:02
pupnik_dang.. i mess with microsofties10:02
pupnik_it is good sport10:02
dangergrrlactually other than a lot of missing device support nitdroid works fine on n900 compiled from the open source android release10:02
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ArkN900talking much about notebook meego builds, mentioned lenovo being partner bla bla bla.. they gave me booklet about lenovo notebooks, guess what? no mention of linux of any flavor and w7 on every page10:03
dangergrrlnot terribly useful other than as an exercise, half your phone isn't supported10:03
ArkN900they could at least print a different one, but they just do not care10:04
dangergrrllike oh wow, i have flash 1010:04
dangergrrltoo bad my internet isn't supported :)10:04
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ArkN900btw isn't meego painfully slow (as well as not fully functional) on n900?10:05
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dangergrrli haven't tried10:05
dangergrrlthe disclaimers are offputting10:06
dangergrrl(don't blame us if your phone calls finland for 12 hours in the background)10:06
ruskieArkN900, nokia is actually giving man hours to get a usable meego port on the n90010:06
ruskiethe so called Developer Edition10:07
dangergrrln900 is the meego ARM reference platform10:07
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ruskiedangergrrl, that doesn't say much ;)10:07
ArkN900ruskie, aren't meego system requirements noticeably higher than maemo5?10:08
ruskieno clue10:08
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dangergrrli don't see why they would be it's not like everything is java :)10:09
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ruskie <-- for the nokia initiative10:10
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sq-onewhat's the out of the box password to unlock the n900?10:30
ruskieyou mean lock code?10:30
ruskie12345 iirc10:31
sq-oneyeah I kind of accidentally locked it10:31
sq-oneruskie: 12345 was correct thanks :)10:32
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xkr47sq-one, the "security code" i.e. lock code is standard for all sim-based phones10:38
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sq-onexkr47: oh I didn't know that. I just switched from a windows mobile 6 phone to the n900 yesterday. On my old phone there wasn's such a thing10:40
djszapiHow can I disable the voice pronouncing the time (no idea in which case and for what event, but randomly.....) on the swipe unlock screen ?10:40
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ruskiedjszapi, you might have espeak time or what's that installed???10:40
ruskiesee control panel or whatever10:40
ruskieshould be some info about it there10:40
djszapiwhat do you mean ?10:40
ruskiedjszapi, also try this: tripple press the power button10:40
ruskiedoes the time gets spoken?10:41
xkr47sq-one, welcome to n900 :)10:41
ruskiethere's an app that does the time speaking stuff10:41
djszapiruskie: you mean 'triple' ?10:41
ruskiestill sleep deprived(like the rest of the week this week :( )10:42
djszapi*nods* happens, I am gonna try it later out and come ba ck.10:42
djszapi* back10:42
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ArkN900hehe, a guy from linuxcenter talked about interaction with chinese oems, i asked him if they are going to make any phones10:47
ArkN900the short answer is no, the long is they want to give nokia priority for some political reason apparently and do not want to compete10:47
ArkN900that sucks10:47
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JaffaMorning, all10:55
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djszapiruskie: yeah, if I press the power button three times, I hear that voice, yep.11:01
djszapihow to eliminate that ?11:01
ruskiedjszapi, remove espeak time iirc11:01
djszapiyou are saying I must remove a package because I cannot configure its feature ?11:01
ruskiego to settings and see what you can change11:02
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ruskiebut this is NOT a standard application11:02
ruskieit's something you installed yourself11:02
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djszapiyes, but I stick by my opinion.11:02
djszapiapt-get remove is a hammer solution11:02
ruskiego to settings and configure it11:03
ruskieit has some settings11:03
ruskiewhat they are I don't recall11:03
ruskieiir it's called eSpeakTime11:03
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RST38hmoorning Khertan11:58
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lardmanthanks RST38h13:13
lardmanwhat was Buteo then?13:13
lardmanBuzzard afaict ;)13:14
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lardmanlol @ last sentence about serious performance problems from Tracker13:15
RST38hlardman: Who knows?13:16
lardmanRST38h: that seems to be precisely the problem :)13:17
RST38hlardman: there is a bigger problem in this thread13:17
RST38hlardman: tentatively known as Moblin13:17
lardmanas in Meego is reverting to Moblin?13:17
* lardman has not finished reading the email thread yet13:17
RST38hlardman: yes13:18
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lardmanenjoy! :)13:19
SpeedEvilMoblin is at least a less silly name.13:19
SpeedEvilI would argue that you should stick to a brand to build mindshare.13:19
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dangergrrlpyradio hates me tonight13:25
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lardmanwow, that thread just runs and runs13:47
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niala1hello #13:56
niala1question:  fremantle supposed to work from meego madde ?13:57
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naemopeople, which is the best way to buy n900 in Germany?14:04
naemoI've bought one in US from, now it costs there $35014:05
niala1naemo: in germany i don't know but i have a second hand for 200€ in france14:05
naemohowever, wants 350euro for n900 which is ~$500 which is expensive.14:05
ruskiethat's expensive???14:06
ruskieI payed for mine 620eur new when I bought it14:06
niala1ruskie: yes but new ?14:07
rangeruskie: Yeah, but that was way back when it was shiny, new and supported and had a great future in front of it :)14:07
naemoniala1: I would like to get a new one14:07
ruskieniala1, yeah... new from the local nokia distributor14:07
dangergrrlthen buy the one in the us and pay VAT when you import it?14:07
ruskieit was supported???14:07
rangeWell, I got three SSU updates :)14:07
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ruskiedangergrrl, don't forget import duty ;)14:08
naemoruskie: I bought my in US for $400 in autumn.14:08
dangergrrli dunno14:09
naemoNow I need yet another one, but in Germany :)14:09
dangergrrlonly thing i've ever ordered internationally has been smart drugs shipped to the us from .nl or .uk14:10
FIQ|n900When I forward X applications and attemt to type in them, typing is done in the console window, not the application14:10
FIQ|n900in SSH, that is14:11
FIQ|n900N900 is the client14:11
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naemoyou connect from maemo to other linux14:11
ruskiedangergrrl, hehe... I wouldn't call that internationally since it's all the EU...14:11
naemowith ssh -X14:11
naemothen get the application on your n900 screen14:12
naemothen type?14:12
dangergrrlruskie: no, shipped into the usa from the eu14:12
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naemoso, in Europe price numbers are the same, but in euros?14:12
ruskiedangergrrl, ahh14:12
ruskienaemo, yes... due to import duty and VAT14:12
ruskienaemo, iirc most US online retailers show prices tax free14:13
dangergrrlthis was back in the 1990s, i used to order hydergine, piracetam, and lucidril14:13
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ruskiesince they have per state and city taxes iirc...14:13
dangergrrlmuch of the time you do not pay sales tax online in the states14:13
dangergrrlthough it is complex14:14
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ruskiewell I would assume you would need to declare it on the income tax form but don't possibly?14:14
dangergrrlif the company has a signifigant presence in the state you live in you are supposed to pay14:14
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ruskieI thought those already need to automatically add it to the price14:14
FIQ|n900<naemo> then type?14:14
dangergrrlonly if they have tyo14:14
FIQ|n900also, everything else you said apply14:15 should be collecting tax on orders shipped to texas because they have a furfillment center here14:15
dangergrrlbut they do not14:15
dangergrrli paid no tax on my n90014:15
dangergrrl$349 with free super saver shipping14:15
FIQ|n900note that it's through wine, other _linux_ programs works :P14:15
niala1I ask again, maybe more luck. You know if fremantle/maemo is supposed to work from meego madde ?14:16
naemoniala1: what do you mean by "from meego"?14:20
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naemoniala1: ah, don't know14:24
naemoniala1: I know there's a project maemo-qemu and it is possible to run maemo on qemu now14:24
niala1i mean on meego netbook.14:25
niala1mad-admin create -f fremantle-pr1314:25
niala1Can not find '/usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/cache/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz' -- no such file.14:25
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niala1but he appear in 'mad-admin list' command14:26
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ruskieapparently you need to install something else or just add that file?14:26
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niala1add that file i think.14:27
niala1and maybe other after this14:28
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naemoniala1: sorry, didn't run madde at all14:34
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naemoI compile righ on device always14:35
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dangergrrlok, pyradio is just somehow broken for me today, pandora works fine in the browser14:41
niala1naemo: on n900 ? 10x more time?14:42
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RST38hBritish Scientists strike again:
RST38hWait, no, Ohio Scientists this time14:43
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ArkN900shit. is there some cryptic browser gesture that causes spontaneous page reload? I see it happening quite frequently.14:56
RST38hArk: Probably just deciding to reflow the page after loading some part of it14:58
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RST38hHappens when the page has showed up but has not yet loaded fully14:58
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ArkN900damn sucks14:59
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ArkN900it resets all form contents and page position15:00
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luke-jrhow do you turn N900 back on if you hold down the power button?15:35
luke-jrbesides waiting 60 seconds?15:35
Lava_Croftit doesnt take 60 seconds?15:35
Lava_Croftusually i have to wait like 10-15 seconds and then it will reboot again15:35
Lava_Crofti guess you could hack the power button behaviour somehowq15:36
SpeedEvil'off' is not off15:36
SpeedEvil'off' is shutting down, like any other linux box15:36
Lava_Croftthats still off15:36
SpeedEvilIn principle, you could restart faster by popping the batery15:36
SpeedEvilthis is a bad idea15:36
Lava_Croftshutting down is going off15:36
Lava_Croftbut this is semantics>_>15:36
Lava_Croft60s seems like an awful long time15:37
SpeedEvilFor me, it's ~25s from 'switch off' to 'LED will glow and it will boot if you press button'.15:38
SpeedEvilThen another 30s or so till Mr Hands.15:38
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Lava_Croftthat sounds right15:39
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totalizatorhi, if I'm building some package for Maemo then what goes to the "Maintainer" field? is it my name or the author of an app?16:07
RST38hyou go there16:07
merlin1991Your name16:07
RST38hnot the author, maintainer of the package16:07
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totalizatorok, thanks guys16:07
divanDoes anyone know who is the author of this patched preenv version - ?16:08
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SpeedEvildivan: Check wikistory16:21
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divanSpeedEvil, the author of the wiki edit maybe other person. BTW, where do I find the wikistory link for this page?16:24
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divanAh, found.16:24
SpeedEvilalso - search TMO16:25
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divanAlready did.16:28
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divanI wonder why it's not included into preenv source tree. Why someone distribute patched in binary form?16:29
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LjLany clue why, when trying to put my N810 to soft poweroff (after enabling it, of course), the screen goes off and then on again, and then stays on (until it times out at least) - but is unresponsive until i press the power button again?16:41
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LjLalso, what difference does it make to set the wifi to stay on or off during soft-poweroff? i mean, it doesn't seem to respond to SIP calls anyway even if it's left on16:55
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sidhow does uboot starts? - hex -16:59
DocScrutinizersoft-off, as the name suggests, is stopping a lot of processes, for sure SIP. Anyway when you're messing with this configfile you might have noticed the "update while softoff" (OWTTE) setting, for which it helps a lot to be online16:59
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DocScrutinizersid: please rephrase17:02
LjLDocScrutinizer: no i haven't noticed that one... i edited /etc/systemui/systemui.xml and /etc/mce/mce.ini so far. does that mean the phone will update packages automatically while in soft-off mode?17:03
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DocScrutinizerN810 isn't a phone, so I gather you ask if there's a difference regarding that between N810 and N900 - I dunno, I never tested that, just seen it in fremantle/N900 mce.ini IIRC17:04
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LjLah no actually i don't know anything at all about the N900, i'm only really concerned about the N81017:05
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LjLDocScrutinizer: but anyway - is what you're saying that, on the N900, one reason you may want to keep wifi *on* even in softoff mode is this OWTTE setting?17:06
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DocScrutinizer~wtf owtte17:06
infobotGee...  I don't know what owtte means...17:06
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(17:06
DocScrutinizeror words to the effect17:06
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LjLDocScrutinizer: i googled it on but didn't find very much :(17:07
DocScrutinizer~OWTTE is or words to the effect17:07
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer17:07
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DocScrutinizerLjL: anyway yes, that's my take on those settings as seen on N900 mce.ini17:07
sidis uboot offset from 6c 87 00 or 62 6f 74 61 from kernel - like 1f 8b 08 for gzip17:07
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LjLDocScrutinizer: so if i might ask for an uneducated opinion, given that the N810 doesn't *seem* to have this (i'll look better), and SIP (and email, and i guess IM, but i haven't tried IM) all go down during softoff, then there's no point leaving wifi on?17:08
DocScrutinizerprolly not, maybe except sshd17:09
LjLone annoying thing, though, is that if i set wifi to go off, then i have to bring it out of offline mode manually... even though i thought i set mce.ini so it should come out of it automatically :\17:10
DocScrutinizerthat's strange, but what is softpff worth for anyway when no conection path to the device left operational17:11
LjLDocScrutinizer: well, it's faster to go back from than full poweroff17:12
DocScrutinizersid: you probably better ask in #meego-arm, I think the uboot maintainer is over there17:12
LjLDocScrutinizer: and also, i've heard that rebooting (or poweroff+on) results in quite a lot of battery drain (and my battery indicator seems to confirm that)17:13
DocScrutinizerhowever softoff is no way like a real off, more like a normal screenlock, regarding power consumption17:13
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GAN900Random interested aside: What's that usual desk dictionary in the UK?17:14
LjLDocScrutinizer: hm, i see... well, it still could be nice as an easy-to-trigger "night mode", if wifi is off17:14
DocScrutinizerthat's probably why it's been "banned" from normal UX17:14
LjLDocScrutinizer: i think it also shouldn't run the risk of some rogue program that's been left on eating the battery17:15
DocScrutinizerGAN900: eeh? Hornby?17:15
GAN900Hornby? Never heard of 'em.17:15
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DocScrutinizerY.X.Hornby "complete dictionary of modern oxford english" or sth like that17:16
DocScrutinizerLjL: sounds reasonable to make a usecase out of that17:17
LjLi'm still mystified by whatever software configuration i had when i was sold this device17:17
GAN900Webster's is the usual here by a large margin. Followed by American Heritage, Oxford, etc.17:17
LjLthe seller claimed he had reflashed it with the same official image i've flashed it with, but... it behaved differently17:17
DocScrutinizermiriam webster's - oh yeah17:17
LjLit had soft-off already available, and the LED didn't blink when it was triggered (or when the screen was off, for that matter), and other little things i don't remember17:18
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DocScrutinizerLjL: this all sounds like he reflashed the rootfs but restored several user settings17:19
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LjLwhen you restore user settings, does that include even things like /etc/systemui/systemui.xml?17:19
DocScrutinizerusually not I'd say17:20
LjLoh, one thing it did that i don't even know how to reproduce is that it showed a confirmation dialog before shutting down17:20
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DocScrutinizeryou shaould ask the diablo hackers about it - I'm a mere user of stock diablo. No idea what hacks were common17:21
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DocScrutinizerI guess ShadowJK, javispedro, dunno who else would know a lot more about it17:22
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: diablo?17:22
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GAN900Whatever I can remember.17:23
DocScrutinizer[2011-03-11 16:17:37] <LjL> the seller claimed he had reflashed it with the same official image i've flashed it with, but... it behaved differently17:23
GAN900LjL, no, stuff like that is not included.17:23
GAN900systemui.xml and mce.ini are the two files responsible for those behaviors.17:24
LjLthat's why it's a damn mystery to me :P17:24
DocScrutinizerGAN900: maybe the prev owner had some hacker's edition or sth?17:24
GAN900Should still be documented on the wiki.17:24
DocScrutinizerand confused the images?17:24
GAN900Hmm, well, I don't know of any image with that stuff out of the box.17:25
LjLhe gave me a windows exe he said was the one he used to flash17:25
LjLi flashed using it, to test, but got nothing like that17:25
GAN900Maybe he included some friendly hacks?17:25
LjLjust a standard latest-diablo install17:25
LjLGAN900: i asked specifically, but he said no17:25
LjLunless it was some program i installed without realizing, but i can't imagine which17:26
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LjLi was thinking advanced power manager for a while17:26
DocScrutinizerI guess he didn't flash, and wasn't like admitting it17:26
LjLit's not like i was trying to blame him for not flashing though, i was just curious =)17:26
DocScrutinizersee, he sold the device - means he stopped using it on a regular basis some months ago. Maybe he forgot what a real flashing involves17:27
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LjLoh well17:28
DocScrutinizerquite easily he might have "flashed" the MyDocs data only - though I gather that's not even supported on diablo17:28
LjLi'm grateful to him for selling a device in such perfect physical conditions, and with *three* batteries included, anyway =)17:29
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GAN900Only flash NAND17:33
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fiedelHello i discover a strange problem with acces to /var/tmp with microb firefox gpoddder and progrfam manger17:35
DocScrutinizerLjL: whatever it's been, a nice diskimage might have saved it for later forensics17:35
fiedelanbody ayny hintgs17:35
MohammadAGobject_class->dispose <-- is this called when the object is destroyed?17:35
MohammadAGin this case, the status menu17:35
MohammadAGstrange problem?17:36
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infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.17:36
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fiedelyeds i need to ereboot in order to get them working again17:37
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DocScrutinizerdisk full?17:39
DocScrutinizerdf -h /var/tmp17:39
GAN900Jaffa, how much of a hassle is pushing to the 'pad on Saturdays?17:40
DocScrutinizerapropos diskimage (on a system where you can't easily umount the / ;-D ) - if I'd go for "killall -stop *; cp -x / /foo; killall -cont *", what would you suggest to do to inprove that sketched scheme? exempt bme (and of course own process;-P) from the SIGSTOP? sync? Anything else?17:43
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DocScrutinizer(yes I know ther are most likely way better approaches, like doing that e.g. in softoff, or in bootmenu, or whatever. Just a bit of brainjogging)17:45
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DocScrutinizerI'm afraid there's a lot of processes I wouldn't want to stop, not to freeze the copy task. Like e.g. X, maybe xterm, own shell, ...17:48
dangergrrlwho is here against their will?17:48
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GAN900Ever seen A Clockword Orange?17:51
DocScrutinizermeh, screw X, even own xterm, as long as you don't want progress indicators :-)17:51
fiedel71% of rootfs free17:52
DocScrutinizerGAN900: your provider has a new eyecatcher at his shop?17:52
JaffaGAN900: Not much of a hassle, as long as I do it.17:52
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GAN900Jaffa, made things a lot easier for me last time.17:53
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fiedelok i'm coming back later from  home have to leave bye17:54
Pranav_rcmasHey people. I wish to apply for Maemo in the upcoming GSoC. I would like to know what level of experience is required, and what are the concepts I should get myself upto speed with, before trying to apply.17:54
* DocScrutinizer envisions Orange has a n analog clock at their shops, where the hands are "Orange" for the large hand and maybe "t-mo" for the hours hand17:55
* DocScrutinizer runs to (R) this17:56
JaffaGAN900: Will do tomorrow.17:57
DocScrutinizeroops s/large/big/17:57
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Cor-Aiif i would like to start an widget via xterm, what should i do? :)17:59
GAN900Jaffa, thanks.18:00
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GAN900Are we participating in GSoC this year?18:00
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DocScrutinizerCor-Ai: oufff. AIUI widgets are started as child processes (*.so) of hildon-desktop. No way to start such a thing like a normal process I guess18:01
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Cor-AiDocScrutinizer: hmm.. I was afraid that would be the answer :/ well well, ty any way! :D18:02
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lcukDocScrutinizer, child processes?18:03
lcuka .so is inprocess18:03
DocScrutinizerCor-Ai: the method would mean to add the widget to wherever the list of hildon desktop widgets got stored, the kill hildon-desktop which amazingly enough will restart it without much impact on running apps18:03
lcukruntime linkning18:03
DocScrutinizerlcuk: yesyes18:03
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Cor-AiDocScrutinizer: ahh, well will have to live with hildon freezing 1-2 times a day (iknow that i can restart hildon but the widgets dosen't always load!)18:05
DocScrutinizerthat's exactly because of this rether kinky method to start widgets18:05
ccookelcuk: Of course, a .so could be written that talks to another process via some defined interface, allowing userspace widgets... :-)18:06
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DocScrutinizerif one widget doesn't behave, it kills all those coming after it18:06
ccookeDocScrutinizer: yeah, that's the downside.18:07
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Cor-Aithats just.. bad programing imo :p or lazy! :p18:07
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lcukccooke, yes of course it could18:07
DocScrutinizerpoor design anyway18:07
lcukusual mecehanisms are dbus etc18:07
ccookeCor-Ai: memory efficient and processor efficient on an embedded system18:07
lcukmechanisms too18:07
ccookeIt's a standard practie of embedded design.18:07
DocScrutinizerccooke: well, ok18:08
Cor-Aiccooke: true.. but still enoing! :p18:08
ccookeThe problem is, the systems it's used on aren't really in the embedded class any more18:08
DocScrutinizerccooke: fork and monitor18:08
ccookeDocScrutinizer: Overhead :-)18:08
Cor-Aiwell thanks for the answer, :)18:08
DocScrutinizerCor-Ai: yw18:09
ccookeDocScrutinizer: that's the problem being solved, anyway. the point is that it's not a big problem on modern designs18:09
lcukCor-Ai, test your system by removing half of your widgets for a couple of days18:09
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lcukif crashing stops, problem in that half you removed18:09
lcukinverse also likely true too18:09
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lcukthen narrow it down further18:09
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Cor-Ailcuk: hehe im doing it :)18:10
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DocScrutinizerbinary triage18:10
DocScrutinizerI gather if you got to know the exact sequence of widget startup, you can tell which one failed as it's the "first" that doesn't show up on desktop. That's not helpful for crashes after loading all of them though18:11
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: actually, yes :-)18:12
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DocScrutinizeror "how to chop down a b-tree"18:13
ccookeDocScrutinizer: no, no. you water the b-tree18:14
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dangergrrlgeorge washington of the 21st century18:46
dangergrrli cannot tell a lie it was i who chopped down the b-tree18:46
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denohi guys19:02
denospeaking about usb-host mode19:02
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denothe modifies have you done, are just modifies that are present in the new kernel?19:03
denofor example, with a patch19:03
alteregoNice improvement in the last acceptance.19:03
denoalterego, for me?19:03
alteregoNo, for the N900 :P19:04
MohammadAGdeno, no, they're custom written19:04
alteregoOh wait, wrong channel.19:04
MohammadAGi.e written from scratch19:04
* MohammadAG points and laughs at alterego 19:04
denoMohammadAG, cool19:05
denobut wait, does the new kernel support it?19:05
MohammadAGno idea19:05
MohammadAGyou're free to experiment19:05
denothe OTG should be present in the normal kernel or I mean,19:06
denowithout the Nokia patches19:06
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MohammadAGumm, what?19:07
MohammadAGOTG is present in all kernels with musb_core19:07
MohammadAGbut the N900 lacks OTG support on the hardware level19:07
* deno think mode19:08
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denowhat do you mean at HW level?19:09
pupnikgame controller for Nokia N8
MohammadAGdeno, I mean the N900 doesn't and won't support OTG on the HW level, it lacks the pin required to do auto switching and the port isn't compaitible19:10
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denoMohammadAG, are you speaking about the usb controller, that the HW is different from other usb controller19:11
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MohammadAGno, I'm taking about the hardware, the USB port19:11
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denoI don't know if you rimember me, we spoken also other times19:13
denoi'm trying to get high bandwidth isochronous transfers working on N90019:13
MohammadAGI remember :p19:14
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denonow I succeed to get packets19:15
denothe first packets of every frame are ok19:15
denoI can see something but after it's all wrong :P19:15
denoso I think there are still problems in the kernel19:15
denoeven if I added all the highbandwidth support19:16
denoI saw that there is a new patch that should increase the performance19:16
denobut it's for a very very recent kernel so it's a mess to apply it manually because there are too many dependencies19:17
SpeedEvilTI have an omap forum on their site.19:17
SpeedEvilMaybe worth an ask?19:17
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denoI spoke with one guy and they said me to apply this patch19:17
denoI was thinking to use a new kernel but you said me before that it's a mess because of the Nokia patches19:18
denoI was told that maybe I could use the new kernel and after use the omap2plus_defconfig19:19
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denothere's specific support for nokia n81019:19
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denodo you kwow if someone have tried a new kernel with the n900 (using Maemo, not meego)19:20
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denobecause my idea was to use a new kernel and after maybe apply your OTG support19:20
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DocScrutinizer51we don't have OTG support. We support generic hostmode though (sorry for getting anal here)19:36
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DocScrutinizer51deno: IIRC I told you about the comments in musb_core source stating there are missing bits for bandwidth mgmt et al, origining to mentorgraphix or TI. I also metioned the upstream patches and we can't use them with a new kernel as maemo closed blobs lock us down to .28 /sys and others19:49
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denoDocScrutinizer, yes there were high bandwidth problems but with some patches they should be ok19:50
DocScrutinizer51so only feasible way is to backport the upstream patches, which will be much appreciated if someone does it and I'm willing to include that to h-e-n and propagate to PK19:50
denoyes I made a backport19:51
denofor some patches19:51
denobut it is still not working properly19:51
denoif I succeed I will share all with the community for sure :)19:52
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denoDocScrutinizer, do you think it's really impossible to make the n900 boot with an update kernel19:53
denoI don't mind about the other functionalities19:53
denoI care (in this case) just about the usb so19:53
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DocScrutinizer51some subsystems will fail. No idea which ones19:54
denouhm ok19:54
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DocScrutinizer51e.g. bme, mce, dsme...19:54
denoalso related to usb?19:55
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denothe best thing is to try it :P19:56
denoI ll let you know19:56
DocScrutinizer51if the system bootloops then probably usb hostmode is useless anyway :-)19:57
denoright, one thing19:57
denomeego uses new kernels19:57
DocScrutinizer51but I'm very interested in real world results19:57
denoshouldn't it be possible to use h-e-n patches (modified) for it ?19:58
lolcatI hate that stupid shop!19:58
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javispedroafternoon, gentlemen.19:58
lolcatI got an offer for N900 for 2500NOK I think if I put my charm on I could get it for 2000, good deal?19:58
DocScrutinizer51deno: basivally h-e-n patches should work on meego as well19:58
RST38hmoo javispedro19:58
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DocScrutinizer51hi javispedro19:58
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denoDocScrutinizer, I think they need some modifies because the kernel version is different19:59
DocScrutinizer51well, see what's going to happen when you apply the hen patches20:00
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denothx for the talk :)20:00
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DocScrutinizer51if there are problems on applying hen patches to meego kernel, let me know20:01
WizzupAny known issues when using CSSU+Power kernel with Fcam? I can't get fcam to work, from testing repos20:01
WizzupWhen I reboot I just don't have any /dev/video* devices at all20:01
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denoDocScrutinizer, ok :)20:02
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Wizzupgot the packages from devel, seems to work  now20:14
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ZogGi wonder how many Israeli guys here?20:18
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ZogGDocScrutinizer, and you don't even bother to count =\20:18
MohammadAGGuySoft, you, me, think that's it20:20
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MohammadAG(re: <ZogG> i wonder how many Israeli guys here?)20:20
MohammadAGthough I'm technically not an Israeli, oh well20:20
ZogGMohammadAG i think i talked with 1 or 2 guys20:20
ZogGMohammadAG, what GPS app do you use?20:21
MohammadAGiOS one20:21
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MohammadAGGoogle has the API for Israel maps blocked, why should I bother20:22
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MohammadAGonly (not the mobile one fyi) and iOS can show our maps20:22
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ZogGMohammadAG, yeah i was wondering why some nice google maps apps for maemos using gogole are just white for me =)20:23
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MohammadAGheh, zoom out, you'll see some lines20:23
ZogGMohammadAG, is Waze israeli startup? and is it based on freeroad?20:23
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ZogGMohammadAG, it's not about zoom out asin browser it works, at hybrid maps it works but layers map it doesn't or how you call them20:26
DocScrutinizerwhat's that thing about all the google shit? I even feel unhappy about google search, and our *government* ponders to forbid google or whatever, to break their defacto monopoly. The rest of the world starts whining if they can't use gmail, gtalk, gmaps, gcraprandom. I just can repeat: I hate g*, this applies for gnome as well as google20:27
MohammadAGyeah I know20:27
MohammadAGbut you can see some lines, for whatever reason they're there20:27
ZogGMohammadAG check out GeePS it's white20:27
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, google doesn't show israeli maps on API20:27
MohammadAGyes ^20:27
jacekowskianybody from belgium?20:27
ZogGDocScrutinizer political things20:27
ZogGthey don't want MohammadAG to blow up strategic things20:28
DocScrutinizerso one reason more to not use google-crap and look for better alternatives that don't eat your soul20:28
MohammadAGthere is no other crap :)20:28
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RST38hZogG: Is he going to do it via Google?20:28
ZogGDocScrutinizer, last time google tryed to take maps with SAT of Dimona they army just made it see huge black spot =)20:28
MohammadAG browse to Israel if you want to see what I mean20:29
RST38hZogG: Is there a magical HTTPrequest I can send to google servers to blow things??? =)20:29
RST38hCan I have it? Can I? CAN I?20:29
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ZogGDocScrutinizer, nope cause of security situation there are only 4 maps of israel20:29
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ZogGwaze and openmap is community20:30
MohammadAGyes, send anything sour20:30
ZogGgoole maps20:30
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ZogGand one that got goverment permission but and sells them to companies like iGo and so on20:30
ZogGWaze is pretty aweome20:30
ZogGawesome though20:31
lcuk4 maps only!20:31
lcukdo people just crowd around them?20:31
ZogGRST38h, i don't get it why you don't use it in Russia20:31
ZogGlcuk i mean digital ones20:31
* RST38h checks .IL map on looks ok, but pretty gray and sad20:31
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RST38hWhy do you need a map anyway? It appears to be mostly sand!20:31 work20:31
lcukZogG, you do know you can make more digital copies20:31
lcukso there can be many more than just 420:32
ZogGlcuk ?20:32
ZogGRST38h the the holy sites where Jesus was killed and suffer =)20:32
* MohammadAG starts pondering what to study20:32
MohammadAGand more importantly; where20:33
ZogGno offense for religious people, just joking (didn't think 1st if there are any here)20:33
RST38hZogG: Ok, but why repeat his career path? =)20:33
RST38hMohammad: CS.20:33
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ZogGMohammadAG, anyway i was lurking in waze code, i think it's pretty much portable to maemo, even found something mention Qt and GTK there20:33
MohammadAGRST38h, was thinking CS and EE, wondering if the jobs offers for those are good though20:34
RST38hMohammad: they are20:34
MohammadAGEE part would be to go head on with DocScrutinizer to see whose N900 explodes faster20:34
ZogGmost libs are linux ones and it's same opengl for android as for maemo20:34
RST38hMohammad: would go with CS though, with EE as a possible minor (if applicableand if you can stay thecourse load)20:34
ZogGMohammadAG EE?20:34
ZogGMohammadAG, go to Tehnion20:35
MohammadAGElectrical Engineering20:35
ZogGor go to Afeka in Tel-Aviv20:35
RST38hEE is a really useful thing to know, but CS gets more use nowadays20:35
MohammadAGIsn't the hebrew uni good?20:35
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ZogGMohammadAG, my friend just finished in Afeka EE and he is working for Intel now =)20:35
MohammadAGthough I probably need Psechometry or whatever it's called right ZogG?20:36
ZogGMohammadAG hebrew is the best for programming as far as i know, but anyway you finish Technion you get any job you desire(if you finish well)20:36
ZogGMohammadAG, yes you do20:36
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MohammadAGZogG, for some reason, I don't plan on working here :P20:37
ZogGMohammadAG, but you said you don't know any hebrew20:37
ZogGMohammadAG, haha, true20:37
MohammadAGthat can change20:37
ZogGbut you can start here with international company and easily move on20:37
RST38hIf you do not intend to work in .IL, why study in .IL?20:38
RST38hYou can go to Europe or US20:38
MohammadAGUS -> I'd need to pass the SAT20:38
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ZogGMohammadAG, US? meh, europe ftw20:39
RST38hMohammad: And you are afraid of a freking SAT?20:39
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MohammadAGRST38h, no, I'm actually considering it more than learning Hebrew and studying in a language I hate20:39
MohammadAGno offense ZogG :P20:39
ZogGMohammadAG none taken20:39
RST38hMohammad: azohenvei20:39
MohammadAGyou're russian anyway20:39
MohammadAGazohe what?20:40
RST38hMohammad: never mind20:40
RST38hMohammad: Andrew Tannenbaum is teaching in .NL BTW20:41
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RST38hMohammad: Not sure if he is teaching a specific class on effective trolling of Linux kernel developers though20:41
MohammadAGRST38h, I might know the nick, who's he?20:41
RST38hMohammad: MINIX author20:41
RST38hMohammad: The guy who forever changed Linus' life :)20:42
RST38hAlso authored some pretty damn good books on Computer Systems20:42
MohammadAGpositively? :P20:42
javispedroso, what do you do when some mac head sends you a dvd image... in a .dmg?????20:43
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RST38hMohammad: I am afraid not.20:43
ZogGjavispedro, if you use linux it's not a problem20:44
RST38hMohammad: But it is the modulus that counts20:44
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javispedroZogG: you can bet I'm using Linux and so far it's been an insourmountable problem.20:44
javispedro"file" says something along the lines of "VAX executable"20:44
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ZogG mount -t hfs -o loop myImage.dmg /macdisk20:45
javispedroit is ISO9660 cdrom20:45
javispedroor so I think...20:45
RST38hMohammad: There is a bunch of good schools in the US too =)20:45
RST38hAnd as you appear to know English already, it shouldn't be a problem20:46
lcukjavispedro, print out data using 72point font and fedex it back to him20:46
ZogGjavispedro file myImage.dmg20:46
javispedroZogG: "VAX executable"20:46
MohammadAGRST38h, I use google translate :P20:46
javispedrolcuk: I am considering going there and killing him.20:46
javispedrospecially since another transfer will not be possible until past weekend...20:47
lcukthat is a bit OTT considering it is only a bit of data20:47
RST38hYou would like to kill a VAX?20:47
lcukwhat is on the dvd?20:47
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javispedrogood point20:47
RST38hDoesn'tthat count as hunting endangered species?20:47
* javispedro goes search some recovery tool20:47
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ZogGjavispedro, hmm one of forum suggest to renaim to bz2 and trying to unpack it and than renaim file inside to .hfs and using hfsplus20:48
javispedrobut I guess it would have some kind of bz2 header then..20:49
ruskieisn't there an undAmAge tool anywhere?20:49
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ZogGjavispedro, ou’ll need to install a basic tool called dmg2img (
ZogGthere is tool to convert as well20:51
ZogG - check this oner20:51
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javispedrook, dmg2img seems to recognize it, thanks!20:54
ZogGjavispedro =)20:54
javispedro(which makes sense since it should be a dvd image..)20:54
ZogGMohammadAG, i would miss you if you leave me here alone with maemo =)20:55
* ZogG xmms2> Ace Ventura - The Light (Zen Mechanics Remix) ["Re:Boot" 2008]20:55
javispedroeffective trolling of Linux kernel developers 101 :D20:56
ZogGi think there is connection between 101 and lol20:58
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ZogGRST38h, why didn't you go to meego conference btw?21:00
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RST38hZogG: Work. + none of the .FI people I know went there21:02
MohammadAGZogG, hah21:03
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RST38hZogG: Or do you mean The Conference?21:03
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RST38hTwo .JP nuclear power plants are burning. A double feature!21:06
lolcatJapan + nuclear is always a blast :P21:07
derfNot to mention the oil refineries, the airports...21:08
RST38hHas Godzilla come?21:08
RST38hderf: ...and Godzilla is NOT happy, judging from his face21:10
TiagoTiagoWould there be a way to trick the 4 wires touch sensor in the N900 turning arbitrary wires positive and negative (instead of  having each always be either positive or negative), and measure the results, allowing the system to see the difference between a single touch and  more than one?21:11
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MohammadAGpoor japan, another quake21:11
derfRST38h: That was from I believe.21:12
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TiagoTiagoIf there was, it would allow limited dualtouch emulation, no?21:13
ZogGMohammadAG so i saw one guy said he would pay 100 $ for Waze on Maemo 5 and i have friend that actually port things between mobile platforms, so it can be double profit =)21:13
MohammadAGI don't do things for profit ZogG :)21:13
guardianhi, long time i didn't use my n800; i want to recycle it to a dlna client to play mp3s in my living room through wifi. can you please suggest me which os update + which dnla client to use?21:14
RST38hdef: how fortunate it is that I do not get to watch Fox... :)21:14
ZogGMohammadAG, me either, i wouldn't get money21:14
RST38hMohammad: But look at the bright side: a few quakes like this one, and it will look exactly like in those post-apocaliptic anime flicks21:15
Corsacwith tentacles?21:15
ZogGi would give money for guy who would do it, as he doesn't have maemo and he has no profit on just porting it on his free time =)21:15
RST38h...and if those reactors rupture, there is even a chance of some furry mutant schoolgirls running around!21:15
lolcatRST38h: That sounds hawt21:16
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TiagoTiagomutant tentacles and furry schoolgirls, that's a world worth living in21:16
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ZogGsuddenly so many peopl talking ah?21:17
penguinbaitits Firday!!21:17
penguinbaitI mean Friday!21:17
javispedroFast infrared day!21:17
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penguinbaitFree infrared day!21:19
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TiagoTiagoFree mutant japanese schoolgirls!21:24
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ZogGTiagoTiago are you the one tht trolling at TMO? i think i recognize your nick21:25
SpeedEvilWith every purchase?21:25
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RST38hAh, so, it *is* melting down!21:27
kerioTiagoTiago: not today, japan is having problems21:27
TiagoTiagothe problems are what are gonna create them :P21:27
federico2"having problems"?21:27
TiagoTiagowhat's that?21:29
TiagoTiagoIs that a striped down N900?21:30
DocScrutinizera half N90021:30
TiagoTiagoi see21:30
DocScrutinizerRST38h: not yet, but likely21:30
RST38hHe has killed an N900! And mounted its corpse!21:30
RST38hDoc: Raising radiation levels and core pressure21:31
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DocScrutinizeraren't nuklear power plants a cute thing?21:31
javispedroRST38h: url?21:32
DocScrutinizerwell, japanese are so smart, they survived the only two warship nuclear explosions ever happening, so probably don't care much about a core meltdown21:32
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: TV21:33
RST38hjavispedro: looking for an English version21:33
DocScrutinizerCNN et al21:33
TiagoTiagoWorse case they just lock down the building for around a century like with some US plants or is there really the risk things gonna get messy?21:33
* javispedro types tv://21:33
RST38hDoc: Rather "Japanese are really creative and hilarious about their nuclear disasters"21:33
RST38h(and I do not mean the sad WWII stuff)21:33
DocScrutinizerRST38h: that's been the subtext of my last post21:34
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ZogG - looks neat21:34
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javispedroah, they got warning21:35
javispedroworst that happens is that the plant gets ruined, then.21:36
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RST38hwell, worst that happens is that the whole down-wind area around the plant is ruined21:37
javispedrothat is very pessimist for a modern plant..21:38
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RST38hjavispedro: afaik, there are no modern nuclear plants, most were built a while ago21:38
TiagoTiagoDon't they build those plants to hold the nuke blast inside?21:38
RST38hThiago: sorry, what nuke blast?21:38
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TiagoTiagothe nuclear explosion when the core goes critical21:38
javispedrono way.21:39
RST38hTiago:there is no nuclear explosion21:39
TiagoTiagoI thought that was what happened when they can't control the reaction21:39
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RST38hTiago: just a normal heat explosion, usually from the steam of whatever circulates in the heat exchanger21:39
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DocScrutinizeranyway there's no building to hold those energies back21:41
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TiagoTiagoSo all they have to deal with is sudden expansion of radioactive steam? That doesn't sound all that hard todeal with if you build the whole place with the worse case scenario in mind21:41
DocScrutinizerthey consider to vent the containment to lower the pressure now :-S21:41
DocScrutinizeremergency cooling is powered by *batteries* which will deplete in a few hours21:42
RST38hAh cool21:42
javispedrobatteries? =)21:42
javispedrohere they have gas21:42
RST38hAs I said, Japanese are REALLY hilarious when it comes to nuclear disasters21:42
DocScrutinizereverything else broke21:42
RST38hFor example:
TiagoTiagojust build a whole underground ring around the thing, pump all the air out of it, and when things go boom just open the hatches and let the vacuum suck21:42
DocScrutinizererrr yes TiagoTiago21:43
javispedroTiagoTiago: you're already assuming the plant is ruined. so far, everything I've read tends to indicate they're still not that worried.21:43
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TiagoTiagoBetter to suck the radioactive steam than to vent it to the atmosphere21:43
fralsthey are venting some gas which they claim to have very low nuclear activity and is not harmful for humans/environment21:44
ZogGTiagoTiago you can nuke the plant just in case something wrong21:44
fralsother than that its fine21:44
DocScrutinizerwhen a core melts it goes thru the ground no matter if that's concrete or whatever and it's anybody's guess when it will stop its journey to center of earth. Actually it'd be quite nice when it didn't stop until vanished completely :-P21:44
ZogGit would be double nuke - double win21:44
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frals... that what the media here is making us believe, anyway21:44
ZogGfrals, bw wanted to ask you, do you mind to implent portrait mode in fmms21:45
RST38hDoc: Not really21:45
DocScrutinizerfrals: in Japan noting ever is harmful to anything21:45
DocScrutinizeror anybody21:45
ZogGRST38h looks like meego preview and android21:46
TiagoTiagoWell, except full resolution cartoon genitals21:46
ZogGi would like that music widget to be ported anyway =)21:46
ZogGRST38h haha i liked that thin applet to pull down *cough* android *cough*21:47
TiagoTiagoSo when a core meltsdown you can turn the nucular into a geothermal plant without needing to drill anything?21:47
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ZogGRST38h, but i think others people problems are morei nteresting news to people21:47
javispedronu cu lar.21:47
RST38hZogG: Fire. Water. People at work. One can watch these three for ever and ever.21:48
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ZogGRST38h, yeah especially when your ass in warm place and you can judge them that they did it wrong and could prevent it21:48
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ZogGhere some japs roads are crashing for ya21:49
TiagoTiagoKinda ironical how a powerplant is having issues with getting enough power to run itself21:50
RST38hNah, why do you think I would want them to prevent it?21:50
TiagoTiagoLooks like a fun place to ride a downhill bike21:51
TiagoTiagosome awesome photographies there21:53
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TiagoTiagoI wish there parks designed like that half wavy road around where i live21:56
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ZogG - nice thing =)21:58
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wazdhi all22:00
TiagoTiagothat doesn't seem playable on microB :\22:01
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GAN900That tsunami footage across the farmland in Japan is unreal.22:06
DocScrutinizernot only the farmland22:07
DocScrutinizerI've seen a short clip that looked like 500 massive houses wiped away in seconds22:07
ZogGwazd i searched for you22:08
ZogGwazd i even missed you22:08
ZogGwazd слыш паренек, джаббер джид дай погонять, а? =)22:08
TiagoTiagoI saw this one that looks like this little puddle of mud and twigs oozing by, it's actually a bunch of cars, trucks, boats and assorted urban debri going around this warehouse-like building22:09
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TiagoTiagoThe thing was so huge that from far away it looked like it was a small very viscous mud blob22:11
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TiagoTiagohm, i gotta go now, cya22:13
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javispedro tmo is already getting overexcited because of the meego developer edition news..22:15
javispedrosome lemmings already calling it "PR1.4"22:15
ruskiecan someone use a nice hammer?22:16
* Arkenoi returned from meego conference22:19
Arkenoiatom atom atom atom atom atom atom22:19
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* DocScrutinizer whispering "remember my prophecy about maemo's first class funeral with a harmattan-meego hybrid release full of borkedness and rolled out under label PR1.4" while leaving for a walk...22:22
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GAN900javispedro, sorry, we moved it. You missed it. :P22:28
GAN900javispedro, planning on trying for SF?22:28
SwedeMikeI heard good things about maemo SSU today anyway, is it time to upgrade (I need the phone to work)22:29
SwedeMikecommunity SSU I should say22:29
javispedroGAN900: so far not, I will have problems at those dates (prolly new job)22:29
korhojoaWhere exactly can one find the community SSU?22:29
lcukin the community.22:30
GAN900javispedro, too bad.22:30
javispedroyeah... specially since it's on the states and it's being time I visit them =)22:30
lcukGAN900, todays quake and stuff is awful :(22:30
SwedeMikekorhojoa: google say
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DocScrutinizer51GAN900: ??22:32
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* DocScrutinizer51 curses - FMradio app vanished22:34
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, gonna try for SF?22:35
GAN900javispedro, clearly it's time to put on your negotiator's cap with your new boss.22:35
GAN900SF is an awfully nice place to visit.22:36
DocScrutinizer51NFI what u talk bout22:36
DocScrutinizer51sorry walkimg22:36
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: there's a meego conference in san francisco22:37
javispedroin few months22:37
DocScrutinizer51I'd love to visit SF, alas no ticket no money22:37
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, sponsorship?22:38
DocScrutinizer51:) welcome22:39
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DocScrutinizer51vme wonders if IPradio would be better than installing FMrx via 3G22:39
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javispedroDocScrutinizer51: have you tried my app?22:40
korhojoaIPradio isn't really that good if you've got a flaky connection22:40
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: cfmradio, package should be less than 150KiB with no deps22:40
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DocScrutinizer51** downloading 855.xKB..... insatllation of FM radio not possible :-(22:43
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javispedroyour PR1.2->CSSU->PR1.3 setup is really broken ;)22:44
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merlin1991CSSU->PR1.3? did you "revert" again?22:48
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GAN900DocScrutinizer51, at least make sure you register and apply.22:57
MohammadAGof all places, SF heh22:58
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MohammadAGtickets cost at least $1400 to SF, I'll pass :)22:59
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MohammadAGI wonder if my mediaplayer would run on MeeGo...23:00
MohammadAGshould just need mafw recompiled I guess23:00
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pupnik   Teen killed after stowing away in the wheel-well of a Boeing 737.  Parents sue airport.23:02
pupnikI was going to see if anyone survived such a stunt23:02
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DocScrutinizer51found the icon that vanished from apmefo. FMrx somehow works but no audio23:02
DocScrutinizer51btw HAM log says "error on overwriting FMrx.desktop"23:03
MohammadAGheh, stock mediaplayer is tricky23:03
MohammadAGit doesn't update the UI when it isn't visible23:03
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MohammadAGbut it detects when you're in the task manager23:03
Pillummohammed, how you know?23:03
MohammadAGI wasn't even sure if that was possible23:03
MohammadAGdbus-monitor --session is the easiest way23:04
MohammadAGif you're in terminal, you'll get nothing23:04
MohammadAGgo out of terminal, you'll see new lines calling get_position every 1s23:04
MohammadAGfunny as now I just remembered in PR1.0 the progress bar never updated in the task manager23:05
* MohammadAG wonders how they did it23:05
MohammadAGmafw is kind of good23:06
MohammadAGstock player makes it suck23:06
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GAN900MohammadAG, APPLY for SPONSORSHIP! :)23:16
GAN900MohammadAG, if you don't get it I'll have lost all faith in the project and its directors. :)23:16
GAN900SpeedEvil, I'm calling you out, too. :P23:19
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ZogG_lapdamn i forgot AC of laptop at home23:41
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ZogG_lapwazd: sup23:42
ZogG_laphere at work already23:42
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DocScrutinizer51GAN900: to get sponsorship for any meego conf I guess I need to pollish my image of my attitude toward meego ;-)23:47
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, not necessarily. But putting words into action would probably be recommended.23:48
GAN900In fact, I should probably say: Not at all.23:48
GAN900But action does talk.23:48
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DocScrutinizer51what action are you thinkin of?23:51
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tybolltGAN900: do spill about the n950? when when when?23:56
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