IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-03-11

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DocScrutinizer	https://mdns.sipthor.net/register_sip_account.phtml	00:08
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kpoman	I dont understand why the cam turns off before starting communication	00:09
* trumee thinks it is useless to setup sip on N900 since most of the time it doesnt work		00:09
* Arkenoi uses sip about 3 times as much as gsm calls		00:10
kpoman	hehe	00:10
kpoman	http://www.voip-list.com/protocols/sip_1.html this one	00:10
DocScrutinizer	trumee: mine works lile a charm most of the time. Actually it failed not even with your account I tested. Not so deverely as you described it anyway	00:11
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trumee	DocScrutinizer, i still use it daily but all the while doing hold/unhold of the call	00:13
DocScrutinizer	aaah, giving friggin swap time to spool out the IOs	00:13
trumee	and i am tired of complaining to Nokia about it. Hopefully Collabora and Nokia will do a better job with N950	00:13
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DocScrutinizer	I doubt there'll be improvements that would help you	00:14
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kpoman_	the god damned dlink wifi router is messing around	00:14
* trumee needs to map the camera button to hold/unhold the call.		00:14
trumee	DocScrutinizer, i raised it in meego-qa list, but it was ignored	00:15
DocScrutinizer	evidently your problem is related to your particular usage pattern or setup of registrar/proxy/gateway/NAT/router/blablub	00:15
trumee	DocScrutinizer, but i will keep hoping	00:15
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DocScrutinizer	It probably got a CND	00:16
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* trumee will test N950 first regarding sip behaviour before buying it		00:16
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DocScrutinizer	meh, test your next router with SIP before buying it	00:17
trumee	DocScrutinizer, i have already bought two routers!	00:17
DocScrutinizer	also test your SIP after installation of additional apps	00:17
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trumee	DocScrutinizer, tested that too, did a clean flash.	00:17
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, then it's maybe your internet provider	00:18
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trumee	DocScrutinizer, why does it work perfectly with my hardware ATA and desktop sip clients?	00:18
DocScrutinizer	some of then do nasty things for traffic shaping	00:18
DocScrutinizer	maybe because those set ToS for example	00:19
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DocScrutinizer	maybe your WLAN is borked	00:19
trumee	DocScrutinizer, ekiga/twinkle ?	00:19
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DocScrutinizer	the router	00:19
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DocScrutinizer	wtf	00:20
trumee	DocScrutinizer, laptop is also on the same wifi and twinkle works fine. did i mention i have tried two routers already	00:20
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DocScrutinizer	trumee: you're aware more than one sip client under same router never works quite nice, without massive config?	00:21
trumee	DocScrutinizer, anyways this discussion is futile. i have come to terms with shitty sip on N900	00:21
DocScrutinizer	SIP on N900 is just fine	00:21
trumee	DocScrutinizer, my N95 work perfect	00:21
trumee	DocScrutinizer, did you see the bugs on bugzilla?	00:22
trumee	DocScrutinizer, and the tmo thread on it.	00:22
DocScrutinizer	yeah, and - what can I say - as long as nobody can duplicate and you are not willing to exactly analyze the traffic to the point where it's getting clear what's happening...	00:23
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trumee	DocScrutinizer, i have had long session with dev fro collabora. i have sent tcpdump logs to Nokia dev	00:24
trumee	DocScrutinizer, both have confirmed the problem. But they dont have a solution for it	00:24
trumee	DocScrutinizer, and i mean long sessionS.	00:25
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DocScrutinizer	so what IS the problem then? And please don't answer "stuttering audio"	00:25
trumee	DocScrutinizer, collabora dev has taken tcpdumps from my system and he believes it is a issue with gstreamer rtpjitterbuffer	00:25
DocScrutinizer	if they confirm the problem then they must have a clear idea what it is, technically	00:26
trumee	DocScrutinizer, it seems the gstreamer code for it is very fragile	00:26
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DocScrutinizer	duh	00:26
trumee	DocScrutinizer, that is the problem. the solution is not very clear	00:26
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kpoman	DocScrutinizer: you are able to do videoconf with which provider ?	00:27
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DocScrutinizer	the solution then is "fix jitterbuffer in gstreamer RTP plugin", a workaround is "use a line with less jitter"	00:27
DocScrutinizer	kpoman: I am not able to do videocalls as I lack any videocall enabled peer to call	00:28
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DocScrutinizer	think I told that before	00:28
trumee	kpoman, i have tried videocall between N900 and ekiga	00:28
kpoman	it is really strange ..	00:28
kpoman	trumee: could you get it working ? how ?	00:29
trumee	kpoman, but that is using my own asterisk server	00:29
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kpoman	oh ok not the ekiga servers ?	00:29
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trumee	kpoman, no	00:29
DocScrutinizer	sipgate.de is forwarding my videocall, and when peer signals he can't do video, the video part vanishes and call becomes a normal audio call via SIP	00:29
kpoman	sipgate ... let me see if there is something to configure on the ekiga account	00:29
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bjv	hey	00:30
kpoman	the strange thing is I am able to do videocall from pc/ekiga to the sip device tandberg	00:31
bjv	i thought i could start browser on on 810 by running ssh user@192.168.0.46 "export DISPLAY=:0.0;tear file:///tmp/"	00:31
bjv	did not work, though	00:31
DocScrutinizer	kpoman: so what's the registrar (= account) you are using on ekiga?	00:31
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: kpoman@ekiga.net	00:32
bjv	the standard 'recover previous session' came up, but it had broken out of the GTK theme or something, just grey buttons	00:32
DocScrutinizer	and you can connect with ekiga softphone to that tandberg that way?	00:32
bjv	hit cancel, browser never opened. just "* glibc detected * tear: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x40ab72c8 *** Aborted"	00:32
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kpoman	yep, with video	00:33
DocScrutinizer	so you should use exactly same procedure on N900	00:33
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DocScrutinizer	same account data, same callee addr	00:33
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kpoman	DocScrutinizer: could it be because of the codecs ?	00:35
DocScrutinizer	could	00:36
kpoman	which codec should be supported by n900 ? h261 ?	00:36
DocScrutinizer	the tandberg and the N900 should have logs somewhere	00:36
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DocScrutinizer	I'd guess yes	00:36
DocScrutinizer	you can easily tell by snooping the SIP data with wireshark, esp the SDP messages in SIP protocol	00:37
DocScrutinizer	in SDP both clients offer their set of supported codecs plus preference, and agree on the best one	00:38
DocScrutinizer	simply put	00:38
kpoman	ok now it is a bit better,	00:38
DocScrutinizer	it's all plaintext	00:38
kpoman	now I do receive, on the n900 a bit of video from the peer, then the communication shuts down :s	00:39
DocScrutinizer	heh	00:39
DocScrutinizer	that's clearly some transmission thing then	00:39
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: i checked all the codecs on the pc / ekiga	00:39
DocScrutinizer	or some weird bug in the codecs	00:39
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: i dont see n900 cam on the pc, but do see some images from the pc on the n900 ... then it shuts down ...	00:39
kpoman	let me deselect codecs one by one	00:40
DocScrutinizer	alas I have no idea where and how to configure/check the codec priority and supported/enabled codecs on N900 telepathy stack	00:40
DocScrutinizer	kpoman: if you can get some call-details from ekiga (I never used it, I am a twinkle man), then you can easily tell which codec been used in that last semi working call	00:41
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: I could see myself on the pc, then it shutdowns	00:42
DocScrutinizer	that's the nice thing about twinkle, you can configure absolutely everything. Alas it comes without video support	00:42
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kpoman	lol	00:43
kpoman	maybe the ISP is blocking somehow	00:44
kpoman	:s	00:44
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:44
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DocScrutinizer	[2011-03-10 22:45:11] <DocScrutinizer> your 3G provider might even block SIP on purpose	00:45
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kpoman	yep	00:46
kpoman	maybe, I will have to try at home	00:46
DocScrutinizer	yeah, in-session codec-switching to adapt for a bandwidth getting lower is one of the most complicated and poorly supported things of VoIP	00:47
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kpoman	the strange thing is n900 not supporting h261 which is the older most common codec	00:47
DocScrutinizer	I'd guess unless you got a god 3.5G signal with HSUPA you mustn't expect videocalls over GSM to work	00:48
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DocScrutinizer	it doesn't? how did you find out?	00:48
kpoman	it kinda worked from 2 pc's connected with 3g modems	00:49
DocScrutinizer	hmm	00:49
DocScrutinizer	connect N900 to same 3G modem then?	00:49
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crashanddie_	wow	00:49
crashanddie_	8.9MB/s over wifi	00:49
cehteh	huh?	00:50
DocScrutinizer	enough for proper video :-D	00:50
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cehteh	more than my wlan :P	00:50
crashanddie_	wifi N, that is.	00:50
kpoman	hhe	00:50
DocScrutinizer	not on N900	00:50
crashanddie_	nope	00:50
cehteh	ah	00:50
crashanddie_	computer -> router	00:50
cehteh	the mmc card wioll be the bottleneck then :P	00:50
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crashanddie_	the router, provided by my ISP	00:53
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crashanddie_	actually has a torrent client in it...	00:53
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crashanddie_	I know routers with torrent clients aren't such a big deal, they're usually not provided by ISPs, is all.	00:53
crashanddie_	And the remote control has a firmware...	00:54
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DocScrutinizer	err wut?	00:54
crashanddie_	yeah...	00:55
kpoman	cool it worked now !!! with codec h263	00:55
DocScrutinizer	see?! :-D	00:55
DocScrutinizer	probably you are standing next to a window now, so your 3G signal is better	00:56
javispedro	my ISP just offered me a $10/month rebate if I give up my IP...	00:56
DocScrutinizer	LOL	00:56
kpoman	nice, it doesnt hang up anymore	00:56
ds3	javispedro: what is special about your IP?	00:56
DocScrutinizer	so IPs are 10$ / 1 now	00:56
javispedro	nothing	00:56
DocScrutinizer	wow	00:57
crashanddie_	it's IPv4	00:57
crashanddie_	which means it's ancient	00:57
crashanddie_	and precious	00:57
DocScrutinizer	it's rare	00:57
ds3	thought maybe you are the last available IP on a block or something like that	00:57
DocScrutinizer	collector's item	00:57
kpoman	ok so basically, had issues with the wifi router (dlink dir300 firmware 1.05), and also codec needs to be h263, and it is extremly awful, but it works	00:57
DocScrutinizer	now you can optimize	00:58
kpoman	yes, I will try other codecs now	00:58
javispedro	I guess the latest "ipv4s have now really ran out" slashdot warning was true...	00:58
DocScrutinizer	use wireshark, trace the SIP traffic	00:58
DocScrutinizer	analyze the SDP	00:58
crashanddie_	SDP?	00:58
DocScrutinizer	you'll see what codecs are offered	00:58
kpoman	the phone announces it knows http://pastebin.com/xvFpGS98	00:58
kpoman	I did a wireshark on my pc to see announcements	00:59
kpoman	then I saw those	00:59
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie_: http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios123/rel_docs/sip-flo/comp2213.htm#1021087	00:59
kpoman	ok, with h264 the connexion is dropped	01:00
DocScrutinizer	IIRC the codecs are in m or a records	01:00
kpoman	now trying theora	01:00
DocScrutinizer	should work better	01:00
DocScrutinizer	if supported by N900	01:01
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DocScrutinizer	of course that's a notion I'm pulling outa my a.... as I never used either	01:02
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kpoman	ok, with theora video is disabled but connexion not dropped	01:02
DocScrutinizer	LOL	01:02
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DocScrutinizer	video disabled means one end doesn't support it	01:03
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kpoman	h261 also video disabled	01:03
DocScrutinizer	N900 though might support video codecs that are unsupported or crappy on ekiga softphone	01:04
tripz0	isn't it funny that android 3 now has gtalk video calling and the n900 had it last year?	01:04
DocScrutinizer	but work nice with tandberg	01:04
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crashanddie_	haha	01:05
crashanddie_	there's a frigging gaming console in the tv module	01:05
kpoman	h263 1998: very strange, the led starts blinking and no video, however not disabled nor connexion dropped	01:05
DocScrutinizer	I.E ekiga&tandberg->nice doesn't mean ekiga&N900->crap is N900's fault	01:06
kpoman	hehehe I know, maybe I need to install more codecs on the phone. let me check this with apt-get	01:06
crashanddie_	DocScrutinizer & javispedro: games available on the tv module of my router: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEA6rZ4oXsQ	01:06
DocScrutinizer	I think I've seen that	01:07
DocScrutinizer	silly games	01:07
DocScrutinizer	that's the router with accelerometer, no?	01:07
crashanddie_	yeah	01:07
javispedro	Asphalt 5 HD for iPad?	01:07
DocScrutinizer	yeah, I seem to remember some games shown in a youtube	01:07
crashanddie_	javispedro: well, not only for iPad apparently :) But yeah, it's the same game	01:08
javispedro	ah, flash crashed, then youtube decided the video was done and skipped to the next one.	01:08
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	01:08
DocScrutinizer	good recovery strategy	01:08
javispedro	see, the entire firefox plugin separation thing is all benefits for the end user! flash crashes and you never notice it!	01:08
DocScrutinizer	well, iPhone does same thing for whole apps :-P	01:09
DocScrutinizer	I've been told	01:09
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DocScrutinizer	basically every app running "under DSME"	01:10
javispedro	that's also windows > xp strategy	01:11
javispedro	"oh, I've never seen my vista blue screen. however, my power supply must be flacky because it reboots every so often." yeah.	01:12
DocScrutinizer	freenode is incredible. users from the Americas are logged in via servers in Frankfurt or in Vilnius, while german users are routed via USA	01:12
javispedro	crashanddie_: so even a router manufacturer can get legally licensed games while Nokia can't.	01:13
DocScrutinizer	meh	01:13
javispedro	(for Maemo that is)	01:13
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* DocScrutinizer cackles		01:13
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DocScrutinizer	maemo is targeted at windows users - those are supposed to lift their games	01:14
* DocScrutinizer hides		01:14
javispedro	evil	01:15
crashanddie_	anyway	01:16
crashanddie_	night people	01:16
DocScrutinizer	o/	01:16
crashanddie_	oh, and btw	01:16
crashanddie_	just for fun: my blackberry crashed tonight	01:16
DocScrutinizer	time for breakfast	01:16
crashanddie_	It was sitting there, on my desk, I'm watching a movie	01:16
crashanddie_	screen lights up, I expect a call	01:16
tripz0	KABOOOM	01:17
crashanddie_	instead, white screen, and in tiny characters: "JVM error 545" or something	01:17
tripz0	like that?	01:17
tripz0	lol	01:17
DocScrutinizer	meh, my diablo on N810 does that all the time	01:17
javispedro	yeah, flugly bme	01:17
tripz0	dance with the devil, what do you expect?	01:17
crashanddie_	never had issues with my blackberries in the past	01:17
crashanddie_	I'll just get it replaced tomorrow or something	01:18
DocScrutinizer	I'm honestly tempted to set R&D	01:18
tripz0	i feel sorry for you that you have a blackberry	01:18
tripz0	it's worse than symbian	01:18
crashanddie_	don't be condescending, little one, that's my role	01:18
tripz0	lol	01:18
tripz0	i'm being empathetic ;)	01:18
crashanddie_	Blackberry for business is awesome	01:18
crashanddie_	better than Maemo/iOS/Symbian/WP7	01:19
tripz0	because?	01:19
DocScrutinizer	on OpenMoko all the engineers got blackberries so they can be reached X-P	01:19
crashanddie_	Android, I knew I missed one	01:19
crashanddie_	DocScrutinizer: haha	01:19
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie_: indeed	01:19
tripz0	not because i doubt, I just never understood why blackberries where good for anything	01:20
crashanddie_	tripz0: one week uptime? Integrated mail that can be managed by real servers? Remote wipe? Data encryption? Password protection? Integration with all calendar systems out there?	01:20
javispedro	propietary calendar systems.	01:20
DocScrutinizer	just one bit that's een more funny, we managed our internal documents via google-docs or what's that crap called	01:20
tripz0	to all those questions I answer, meh	01:20
crashanddie_	the keyboard is fantastic, (I'm talking about the full qwerty keyboards here, not the half-assed 12 button keyboards)	01:20
crashanddie_	tripz0: can I assume you've never worked in a corporate environment?	01:21
tripz0	the last thing i want is for IT to touch my phone	01:21
jacekowski	crashanddie_: any phone that's fully compatible with active sync can do that	01:21
tripz0	crashanddie, you would assume wrong ;)	01:21
jacekowski	i had my encounter with blackberry storm	01:21
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jacekowski	and it was a disaster	01:21
crashanddie_	ouch	01:21
crashanddie_	yeah, that was the shittiest phone ever	01:22
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: do you know which package could contain codecs ? I read that h264 should be supported on n900 ...	01:22
jacekowski	phone crashed	01:22
jacekowski	hanged	01:22
jacekowski	done all kinds of stuff	01:22
crashanddie_	I loved how the accelerometer worked	01:22
jacekowski	except making fone calls	01:22
jacekowski	phone*	01:22
crashanddie_	you'd flip from horizontal to vertical	01:22
DocScrutinizer	kpoman: sorry	01:22
jacekowski	and no wifi	01:22
crashanddie_	it would take about 30 or 40 seconds to notice	01:22
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: this one seems good: http://maemo.org/packages/view/omap3430-dsp-libraries-ti/	01:22
DocScrutinizer	kpoman: it not only needs codec but also the telepathy and probably gstreamer plugin	01:23
jacekowski	kpoman: there is a lot of different h264 profiles	01:23
crashanddie_	it wouldn't manage switching from 3g to 2g properly, so you'd get lost calls continuously	01:23
jacekowski	kpoman: and only one is supported	01:23
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kpoman	oops, all are already installed	01:23
kpoman	jacekowski: yep I saw the most basic one ..	01:23
tripz0	i have a laptop that IT gave me with windows XP on it. it was supposed to be like super secure and crap. Then mcafee identified a core system file as a virus and removed it along with my ability to boot	01:23
tripz0	then i put ubuntu on it	01:23
jacekowski	tripz0: well, that was well known mcafee fail	01:24
kpoman	do you know which streaming framework is used on the SIP client ? Videolan ? ffmpeg ? gstreamer ?	01:24
jacekowski	tripz0: avg did similiar shit couple weeks ago	01:24
tripz0	lol	01:24
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DocScrutinizer	kpoman: I'd bet gstreamer	01:24
crashanddie_	My work laptop, a dell whatever, the network card crashes continously	01:24
crashanddie_	the ethernet card, that is	01:24
tripz0	so why would I expose my phone to the same awesome IT security?	01:25
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crashanddie_	on windows, blue screen of death	01:25
crashanddie_	On Ubuntu, network dies, reload module, and you're good to go	01:25
crashanddie_	tripz0: because they pay for my bill?	01:25
tripz0	yup	01:25
tripz0	they can keep their 50 bucks and stay out of my life/work	01:25
tripz0	:P	01:25
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lcuk	crashanddie_, did you file a bug?	01:26
tripz0	get more work done without them	01:26
crashanddie_	tripz0: I get free phone, free data usage, free sms? I'd be racking 2 or 3 hundred euros a month	01:26
crashanddie_	lcuk: to whom? Intel?	01:26
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie_: same problem here, though I always thought that's the card driver and not the hw	01:26
lcuk	crashanddie_, or Microsoft or whoever	01:26
jacekowski	dell sucks	01:26
crashanddie_	lcuk: I sent the report	01:26
tripz0	crashanddie_, point there. 200EU is a bit expensive	01:26
DocScrutinizer	Siemens esprimo :-P	01:27
lcuk	#awesome	01:27
DocScrutinizer	that one sucks for sure	01:27
crashanddie_	DocScrutinizer: yeah, I was pretty sure it was the driver, until I noticed that over the weekend the network would die	01:27
crashanddie_	(on Ubuntu)	01:27
tripz0	but seriously... unlimited sms/data shouldn't be that much	01:27
tripz0	voice can send you into triple digits though	01:27
crashanddie_	tripz0: I call international and roam a lot.	01:27
DocScrutinizer	mine dies when router gets that annoying forced disconnect on ADSL	01:27
DocScrutinizer	only sometimes, probably when a pkg is truncated	01:28
lcuk	tripz0, have you ever been in charge of a corporate network?	01:28
lcuk	ie, ever had to manage bandwidth	01:28
crashanddie_	obviously not	01:28
tripz0	lcuk, only a corporation of one	01:28
crashanddie_	hah, you still get the 24h DSL disconnect?	01:28
crashanddie_	I thought that was a memory of the past	01:28
lcuk	tripz0, hence you thinking unlimited bandwidth	01:28
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tripz0	lcuk, i mean cellular data costs	01:28
crashanddie_	lcuk: I've got unlimited data	01:28
tripz0	you can get 'unlimited' data for like $30/mo	01:29
DocScrutinizer	plus postfix drives me crazy since months (years?)	01:29
crashanddie_	It's this "professional" plan, whatever that means, but basically, I don't get cut off after 2 gigs or whatever, it just keeps on going	01:29
lcuk	crashanddie_, and you pay proportionatly more	01:30
lcuk	+typofix	01:30
DocScrutinizer	etc/postfix/relay.db missing file	01:30
tripz0	i know very well bandwidth is limited. I see that every night when I have that slight latency issue while playing call of duty that gets me killed	01:30
crashanddie_	As my team is all over the place, they were happy to provide me with that plan after the first two or three months I racked bills of nearly a grand	01:30
tripz0	ouch	01:30
DocScrutinizer	each minute	01:30
crashanddie_	My biggest bill? 1800 quid in a week.	01:30
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crashanddie_	That was calling a premium support line in the US, from the Ukraine, using a UK-based cell phone.	01:31
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie_: (24h) not here in Germany	01:31
DocScrutinizer	t-com :-(	01:31
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crashanddie_	Irony in that story? The customer in the Ukraine is on the biggest mobile phone companies in Russia/Ukraine.	01:32
crashanddie_	And they couldn't provide us with a bloody phone line :P	01:32
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crashanddie_	Also, I do have to test premium rate phone services, it's kinda in my job description, so yeah, I do rack up high bills regularly	01:33
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie_: sounds like sheer fun	01:34
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jacekowski	crashanddie_: you get paid to call all sex lines and stuff?	01:35
jacekowski	i like your job	01:35
DocScrutinizer	s/sheer/mere/.	01:35
tripz0	luls	01:35
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crashanddie_	we only have a couple sex lines in our client list	01:35
crashanddie_	so never had to call them	01:35
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* nidO curses cyberduck		01:37
* Proteous quacks at cyberduck		01:37
DocScrutinizer	tztztz, my friend fixed that DNS server at 23:30 in the night	01:38
DocScrutinizer	weird stuff, my ZNC on a box in that domain broke down, well maybe due to failing rdns	01:39
bjv	does vgba have a keybinding for freeze/restore state? or just the menu items	01:40
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kpoman	ok now h264 works too !	01:40
kpoman	it is unstable but it works now,	01:40
kpoman	I dont know which of the steps solved the problem: overclocked n900 to 1ghz, installed apt-get install libosip2-4, and lowered to 128kbps	01:41
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kpoman	DocScrutinizer: do you know where the call logs what happens ? or if there is a way to enable verbosing ?	01:42
Corsac	hmhm, something I didn't try in a while is jabber video call with desktop clients like empathy	01:42
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DocScrutinizer51	kpoman: sorry, I'm missing any decent docs about telepathy	01:43
kpoman	ok	01:43
kpoman	no problem	01:43
kpoman	the image is very good with h264 however a big big lag	01:43
DocScrutinizer51	where did you lower to 128?	01:44
kpoman	in the ekiga client on the pc	01:44
DocScrutinizer51	aaah	01:44
DocScrutinizer51	that's most likely it	01:44
DocScrutinizer51	kpoman: I honestly suggest to stop OCing if possible	01:46
kpoman	why ?	01:46
DocScrutinizer51	your usecase is the most valid one for OC I heard so far, but nevertheless 1GHz will do no good to CPU	01:47
DocScrutinizer51	the gates erode	01:47
kpoman	yep sure but is ondemand	01:48
DocScrutinizer51	(see wiki:electromigration)	01:48
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DocScrutinizer51	:nod: but I guess on video calls it will demand max clock freq no matter if needed or not	01:49
kpoman	yes sure	01:49
kpoman	I am right now monitoring with conky	01:49
DocScrutinizer51	and 1000MHz is really high	01:49
kpoman	yes	01:49
kpoman	it is really stable though	01:50
kpoman	put that 3 days ago, no problems at all	01:50
DocScrutinizer51	see if you get away with 800 or even default	01:50
kpoman	sure but the UI is less responsive	01:50
kpoman	and has lot of lags everywhere	01:50
DocScrutinizer51	EM wear is a slow nonfreversible process	01:50
kpoman	ok time to go home :) i will keep testing there ! will reconnect in some minutes (it is almost 9PM here in brasilia)	01:51
DocScrutinizer51	a bit later here	01:51
kpoman	c ya ! thanks for the tips	01:52
kpoman	brb	01:52
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DocScrutinizer	OK, now a almost last word on OC: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3525-hirel.pdf page 122 3.3 Recommended Operating Conditions	03:04
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javispedro	5%	03:05
DocScrutinizer	100K total PowerOnHours when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 (overdrive = 600MHz) to less than 23K POH. --- for commercial grade device (up to 95°C)	03:06
javispedro	however none of those is the 100% equivalent to the 3430 iirc	03:06
DocScrutinizer	50K total POH when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5 to less than 10K POH. Total FaultsInThousand(?) Rate increases from design goal of 50FIT to 70FIT under these accelerated conditions. (for MIL(?) 105°C max devices)	03:07
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: errr, afaik we got a 3530 in N900	03:09
DocScrutinizer	I'm not sure if we got an A type (MIL 105°)	03:09
javispedro	hm?	03:10
javispedro	n900 is officially 3430 -- while 35xx are just "non mass market" equivalents to 34xx, I'm not sure the 3530 maps exactly to the 3430	03:10
javispedro	as far as I know, the 3530 is the one in Pandora which was rated up to 720Mhz	03:11
DocScrutinizer	isn't it the other way round	03:11
DocScrutinizer	aah market of the masses, yeah	03:11
javispedro	same for 36xx vs 37xx	03:12
DocScrutinizer	nah, 35xx is rated for commercial usage (like in FIT etc, warranty, guaranteed time til EOL), and otherwise identical to 34xx AFAIK	03:12
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javispedro	I believe it's the other way =)	03:14
DocScrutinizer	the max freq rating is a property of the particular build you order, as 35xx is "built to order" while 34xx is sold at TI specs	03:14
javispedro	either way doesn't matter, it's nearly bed time =)	03:14
DocScrutinizer	whatever it is, you see the time til failure gets reduced drastically by a 10°C more	03:15
DocScrutinizer	and could easily be as short as 10k hours operation time @ 600MHz	03:15
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javispedro	yep	03:16
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DocScrutinizer	where you expect to see 7 of 100 devices broken after that 10kh	03:17
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DocScrutinizer	increasing temperature or clock marginally will exponentially reduce lifetime until devices start to burn out	03:18
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DocScrutinizer	at 800MHz we might be at 1000h	03:18
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DocScrutinizer	all heavily depending on Nokia's temperature concept in N900, which might even cause CPU to heat up to way more than 105° when overclocked	03:19
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DocScrutinizer	well, maybe javispedro is right, and it's the 35xx series that are for normal mortals and the 34xx that are for OEMs building >10^6 devices	03:41
* nox- suddenly has mental images of n900 with builtin fans...		03:42
nox-	bbl	03:42
DocScrutinizer	hehe	03:43
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krayon	I guess the phone would be slightly less portable if you just cable tied some fans to it too :/	03:52
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dangergrrl	i am pleased	03:56
dangergrrl	i can stream pandora riding down the road and rebroadcast it to my fm radio on my bike	03:57
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DocScrutinizer	hi dangergrrl	04:04
DocScrutinizer	(fans) I got a few nice ideas to build forced ventilation into handheld without using classical fans of any miniaturized size	04:06
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dangergrrl	does air even get into an n900?	04:07
DocScrutinizer	well, between kbd and screen there's no case, it's "open"	04:07
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DocScrutinizer	pretty good dust collector	04:08
DocScrutinizer	I didn't refer to N900 about those ventilation ideas	04:08
dangergrrl	well untill proven otherwise i still think it's the best handheld linux pc around	04:09
DocScrutinizer	I invented a few concepts for the never-built Openmoko gta04-mk2 I designed a while ago	04:09
DocScrutinizer	dangergrrl: you're in good company about that notion here	04:11
dangergrrl	so what device can i get with dual core arm that's documented well enough for kernel hacking?	04:11
DocScrutinizer	dual arm cores? errr...	04:12
dangergrrl	i talked someone into ressurecting the utah oskit	04:12
dm8tbr	pandaboard	04:12
DocScrutinizer	well, actually N900 has 2 arm cores, one in SoC and one in BB5 cmt	04:12
dangergrrl	he wants me to help i think	04:12
dangergrrl	i'm mostly interested in SMP stuff	04:12
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: ok I am at home and now it works really fine !	04:13
kpoman	wow	04:13
kpoman	incredible	04:13
DocScrutinizer	:-D	04:13
kpoman	the codec is ugly for the phone	04:13
kpoman	but I do see the image perfectly on the phone from the pc	04:13
kpoman	but on the other side it is ugly	04:14
DocScrutinizer	the cam is ugly on the N900 :-P That's not the codec's fault	04:14
kpoman	do you know if there is any kind of tuning params for telepathy ?	04:14
DocScrutinizer	get more light, that helps a lot	04:14
kpoman	yep I did that but the image is still ugly	04:15
DocScrutinizer	front cam is really abysmal	04:15
kpoman	sometimes it does a complete frame	04:15
kpoman	but then starts adding ugly boxes	04:15
DocScrutinizer	ooh	04:15
DocScrutinizer	that's codec in fact	04:15
kpoman	yep	04:15
kpoman	I dont know if it is a bandwidth problem, would like to check those settings. where are they ???	04:16
DocScrutinizer	NFI	04:16
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kpoman	this is interesting: http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ#Which_video_codec_do_I_need.3F	04:16
DocScrutinizer	ask colabora about where are those 300+ missing pages of docs about telepathy	04:16
kpoman	lol	04:18
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kpoman	let me see if it is related to bandwidth or codec	04:18
kpoman	I will do a home home call	04:19
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DocScrutinizer	gstreamer-codecs-ugly I've seen on N900	04:19
DocScrutinizer	make sure it's actually not running across your internet connection twice	04:20
DocScrutinizer	a lot of routers can't reach their own public IP from W(L)AN	04:21
kpoman	apparently there are issues with wifi access points or routers for SIP technology	04:21
kpoman	I had to update my router's firmware (ddwrt)	04:22
DocScrutinizer	and of course you can't call yourself, so you'd need a second account somewhere I guess	04:22
kpoman	the strange part is now my pc connects via wifi but my phone doesnt via wifi, only via 3g	04:22
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kpoman	I did create 2 accounts :p	04:24
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kpoman	and call from wifi to 3g etc..	04:25
kpoman	it would be really nice to find logs about wtf is going on there	04:25
dangergrrl	so sipgate in us is out of numbers for now	04:28
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kpoman	DocScrutinizer: ok all the logs seem to go to dbus. I launched dbus-monitor and see lot of junk there	04:34
kpoman	lol	04:34
DocScrutinizer	dangergrrl: duh, never knew they are in USA now as well	04:34
DocScrutinizer	kpoman: dbus aren't logs, and you'll see lots and lots of stuff unrealted to telepathy	04:35
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DocScrutinizer	kpoman: try lsof	04:36
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DocScrutinizer	http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger	04:38
DocScrutinizer	http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Debugging	04:38
kpoman	it doesnt show anything related to sofia nor sip	04:39
DocScrutinizer	FOO_PERSIST=1 FOO_DEBUG=all /path/to/telepathy-foo 2>&1 \| tee foo.log	04:39
DocScrutinizer	(where foo should be gabble for Jabber, and the name of the relevant CM for the protocol you're having trouble with...)	04:39
dangergrrl	sipgate.com but they have no more numbetrs for now	04:40
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kpoman	it is /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-sofiasip	04:41
DocScrutinizer	yup	04:41
DocScrutinizer	sounds correct	04:41
kpoman	do I do SOFIA_PERSIST=1 SOFIA_DEBUG=all /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-sofiasip ?	04:41
DocScrutinizer	SOFIASIP I guess	04:41
kpoman	what is tee ? tail -f ?	04:41
DocScrutinizer	tee is a cmd	04:42
DocScrutinizer	it logs to a file AND stdout	04:42
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: well It didnt print a single thing	04:42
kpoman	:s	04:43
kpoman	damend	04:43
DocScrutinizer	you can use >foo.log instead of \|tee foo.log, if your're not interested in realtime output	04:43
DocScrutinizer	you've read the website?	04:43
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DocScrutinizer	>>Obtaining logs	04:43
DocScrutinizer	http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Debugging	04:43
kpoman	maybe I did run with root instead of user ?	04:44
kpoman	no, same thing as user	04:44
kpoman	let me see the link	04:44
DocScrutinizer	I apologize to colabora for my rant about the missing 300 pages, seems I found them :-)	04:46
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kpoman	I will ask on telepathy channel	04:52
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3264.html The offer will contain zero or more media streams (each media stream is described by an "m=" line and its associated attributes)	04:55
DocScrutinizer	>>In all cases, the formats in the "m=" line MUST be listed in order of preference, with the first format listed being preferred. In this case, preferred means that the recipient of the offer SHOULD use the format with the highest preference that is acceptable to it.	04:57
DocScrutinizer	>> If the bandwidth attribute is present for a stream, it indicates the desired bandwidth that the offerer would like to receive.	04:59
DocScrutinizer	>> If multiple media streams of different types are present, it means that the offerer wishes to use those streams at the same time. A typical case is an audio and a video stream as part of a videoconference.	05:00
kpoman	just another question : I am trying easy debian. why is it EXT2 instead of EXT3 ?	05:01
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, possibly because ext3 isn't so extremely useful on flash stoarge?	05:02
kpoman	DocScrutinizer: I had reboots while updating and then ext2 got corrupted	05:02
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DocScrutinizer	ext3 also can get corrupted	05:03
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DocScrutinizer	well, you can eaily convert to ext3 if you like	05:04
DocScrutinizer	tune2fs	05:04
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kpoman	DocScrutinizer: I was just wondering why ext2, maybe faster ? maybe safer for a flash memory ? donno	05:06
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DocScrutinizer	safer for flash, ext3 adds write actions when transferring the log to real fs	05:07
DocScrutinizer	err s/log/journal/	05:07
kpoman	ok I see	05:08
DocScrutinizer	>>An offered stream MAY be rejected in the answer, ... To reject an offered stream, the port number in the corresponding stream in the answer MUST be set to zero.	05:10
DocScrutinizer	^^^this means when your video call gets rejected for the video part, then the stream m= line in SDP msg has a port number of zero	05:12
DocScrutinizer	...while tracing the SDP offer msg generated by N900 calling out tells you what codecs the N900 supports, and in which priority sort order	05:13
DocScrutinizer	wireshark dissects these SDP mgs nicely	05:13
pupnik_	morning :>	05:14
DocScrutinizer	morning pupnik_	05:14
pupnik_	biughtr an old webcam for a couple euro and it was plug n play with kernel	05:15
pupnik_	bought	05:15
DocScrutinizer	kpoman: I.E. you see an inbound INVITE SIP msg that has a SDP section	05:15
DocScrutinizer	on your PC	05:16
DocScrutinizer	in this SDP section the N900 tells ekiga what codecs to use	05:17
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DocScrutinizer	ekiga will choose the first codec in that list which it supports, and answer with a similar SIP msg with SDP section	05:19
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kpoman	sorry I just got back here	05:24
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DocScrutinizer	kpoman: NB also for your port forwards etc: >>> The connection address and port in the answer indicate the address where the answerer wishes to receive media (in the case of RTP, RTCP will be received on the port which is one higher unless there is an explicit indication otherwise). This address and port MUST be present even for sendonly streams; in the case of RTP, the port one higher is still used to receive RTCP.	05:25
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* ShadowJK suspects ext3 is better than ext2 on flash anyway		05:27
DocScrutinizer	really? how that?	05:28
DocScrutinizer	well, journal rarely has erasepage misses	05:29
ShadowJK	exactly	05:29
ShadowJK	And ext2/ext3 assumes harddrives either succeed or fail at writing 512 byte sectors, and everything adjacent to those 512 byte sectors is left intact if stuff fails	05:29
DocScrutinizer	still if the writeout of the whole page gets aborted it's not any better than ext2	05:29
ShadowJK	then flash goes and blows away 128k chunks of your data :D	05:30
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ShadowJK	my theory is that ext3 works faster (I saw that in benchmarks) because it first writes to journal and then when you're not doing much it can go sprinkle the journal all over the place	05:31
ShadowJK	the contents of the journal that is	05:31
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DocScrutinizer	yep	05:31
ShadowJK	My ad-hoc "interactivity" benchmark showed ext4 as 10 times faster than ext3 anyway	05:32
ShadowJK	which is probably thanks to delayed allocation	05:32
chx	wow	05:32
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djszapi	How can I disable the voice pronouncing the time (no idea in which case and for what event, but randomly.....) on the swipe unlock screen ?	05:50
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DocScrutinizer	djszapi: err wut? Acoustic delusions?	05:54
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DocScrutinizer	which system?	05:55
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trip0	hmm... why can't i video call using gtalk to a honeycomb tablet (that supports it) from my n900?	06:00
trip0	but i can gtalk video call from my n900 to another n900 and from my n900 to a linux computer running the empathy client	06:01
trip0	but i can't from empathy to the android tablet either	06:01
* trip0 calls BS on android		06:01
trip0	they must be doing something no?	06:01
trip0	i can only vid call from gtalk in a browser to the tablet	06:02
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kpoman	could someone please help me a bit ? I lost my sources.list on easy debian	06:44
kpoman	help !	06:44
kpoman	if someone could post it somewhere ?	06:44
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kpoman	I installed a lame app, netselect-apt , it took about 5 minutes and then killed the sources.list file	06:45
kpoman	this really sucks	06:45
kpoman	why am i so unlucky damned	06:46
kpoman	:(	06:46
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kpoman	ok got it	06:48
kpoman	is there a way to change the mirror to a brazil one ?	06:49
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kpoman	well this easy debian image thing is junky	07:17
kpoman	it always reboot	07:17
kpoman	it always corrupts the fs	07:17
kpoman	it really sucks	07:17
kpoman	it cannot be corrected, fsck.ext2 kills it all	07:17
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kpoman	ok I am putting easy debian in an ext3 fs	07:28
kpoman	hope it will solve this mess	07:28
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pisadaan	Hi, I am about to install Easy Desbian to MicroSd. Do I need to partition the card first? Sorry for the newbie question.	07:48
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dangergrrl	sigh	08:06
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DocScrutinizer	ouch heavy earthquake and tsunami in Japan	08:43
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_\|Nix\|_	Hey! Does anyone know why omweather keeps timing out when I try to update it?	09:19
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dangergrrl	broke it again	09:44
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dangergrrl	flasher is my friend	09:44
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robbiethe1st	Darnit, stop breaking things!	09:44
ruskie	hehe	09:45
pupnik_	the interesting thing to me is	09:47
pupnik_	how many hundreds of people were logged into #maemo	09:47
pupnik_	who never talked	09:47
pupnik_	that says something about how committed they were to the project	09:47
pupnik_	"i'm getting paid to idle here"	09:47
pupnik_	those shits can go work for microsoft	09:48
pupnik_	and i hope they get cancer	09:48
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ruskie	lol	09:48
MohammadAG	o_O	09:49
ruskie	is active participation actually required to support something?	09:49
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pupnik_	yes it is	09:49
dangergrrl	right now my status is i fail to hack my n900	09:49
dangergrrl	and i have to reflash it often	09:49
ruskie	dangergrrl, how often was it so far?	09:49
* ArkN900 is on fruct meego conference. fist presentation was to be Nokia, but was cancelled (as expected)		09:49
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dangergrrl	twice in two days	09:50
ruskie	so 4 times so far	09:50
ruskie	still below average ;)	09:50
dangergrrl	twice total	09:50
ruskie	ahh	09:50
ruskie	way below average	09:50
ArkN900	only intel guys are talking so far	09:50
dangergrrl	i crashed it yesterday	09:50
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TheJ	nokia fist presentation.. lol	09:50
dangergrrl	flashed it and decided to call myself ahead	09:50
ArkN900	first	09:51
ArkN900	good typo :)	09:51
TheJ	yeah :)	09:51
ArkN900	i'd even say middle finger	09:51
dangergrrl	i think we've already seen nokia fist their customers	09:51
TheJ	aaarrrgghh LOL	09:52
ArkN900	well, really maybe more like fist	09:52
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dangergrrl	miocrosoft spends far too much money messing up our toys	09:53
ArkN900	atom shit talk all the way, boring	09:54
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ruskie	it's intel... do you expect ANYTHING else than x86 arch???	09:55
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dangergrrl	i thought intel had ARM rights too	09:55
ArkN900	well, intel was involved in arm iirc	09:55
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ruskie	yeah involved... maybe 0.00001% of their business	09:56
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ArkN900	btw they say meego is completely opensource and has no proprietary compopnents	09:57
ArkN900	isn't it bs?	09:58
ruskie	ArkN900, well the core probably is	09:58
ArkN900	ah, the core	09:58
ruskie	no clue about the UX layer but I thought that was as well	09:59
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ruskie	the problem comes from all the non intel x86 hw that gets stuck.. and hell even intels own hw requires bloby firmware	09:59
dangergrrl	meego has fewer closed components	09:59
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pupnik_	microsoft is a twrrorust organiyation	09:59
dangergrrl	i haven't utsl much less booted it however	09:59
pupnik_	terrorist	10:00
dangergrrl	are you welsh or something?	10:00
dangergrrl	:)	10:00
pupnik_	no	10:00
dangergrrl	(twrrorust)	10:00
pupnik_	phone kbd	10:01
dangergrrl	aha	10:01
ruskie	dangergrrl, the amount of closed components depends also on the vendor and the hardware	10:01
dangergrrl	those welsh like to use w as a vowel	10:01
ruskie	I believe android is also completly open source...	10:01
ruskie	until you put it on a device where the vendor adds it's own closed components and closed drivers	10:02
pupnik_	dang.. i mess with microsofties	10:02
pupnik_	it is good sport	10:02
dangergrrl	actually other than a lot of missing device support nitdroid works fine on n900 compiled from the open source android release	10:02
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ArkN900	talking much about notebook meego builds, mentioned lenovo being partner bla bla bla.. they gave me booklet about lenovo notebooks, guess what? no mention of linux of any flavor and w7 on every page	10:03
dangergrrl	not terribly useful other than as an exercise, half your phone isn't supported	10:03
ArkN900	they could at least print a different one, but they just do not care	10:04
dangergrrl	like oh wow, i have flash 10	10:04
dangergrrl	too bad my internet isn't supported :)	10:04
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ArkN900	btw isn't meego painfully slow (as well as not fully functional) on n900?	10:05
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dangergrrl	i haven't tried	10:05
dangergrrl	the disclaimers are offputting	10:06
dangergrrl	(don't blame us if your phone calls finland for 12 hours in the background)	10:06
ruskie	ArkN900, nokia is actually giving man hours to get a usable meego port on the n900	10:06
ruskie	the so called Developer Edition	10:07
dangergrrl	n900 is the meego ARM reference platform	10:07
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ruskie	dangergrrl, that doesn't say much ;)	10:07
ArkN900	ruskie, aren't meego system requirements noticeably higher than maemo5?	10:08
ruskie	no clue	10:08
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dangergrrl	i don't see why they would be it's not like everything is java :)	10:09
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ruskie	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition <-- for the nokia initiative	10:10
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sq-one	what's the out of the box password to unlock the n900?	10:30
ruskie	you mean lock code?	10:30
ruskie	12345 iirc	10:31
sq-one	yeah I kind of accidentally locked it	10:31
sq-one	mom	10:31
sq-one	ruskie: 12345 was correct thanks :)	10:32
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xkr47	sq-one, the "security code" i.e. lock code is standard for all sim-based phones	10:38
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sq-one	xkr47: oh I didn't know that. I just switched from a windows mobile 6 phone to the n900 yesterday. On my old phone there wasn's such a thing	10:40
djszapi	How can I disable the voice pronouncing the time (no idea in which case and for what event, but randomly.....) on the swipe unlock screen ?	10:40
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ruskie	djszapi, you might have espeak time or what's that installed???	10:40
ruskie	see control panel or whatever	10:40
ruskie	should be some info about it there	10:40
djszapi	what do you mean ?	10:40
ruskie	djszapi, also try this: tripple press the power button	10:40
ruskie	does the time gets spoken?	10:41
xkr47	sq-one, welcome to n900 :)	10:41
ruskie	there's an app that does the time speaking stuff	10:41
djszapi	ruskie: you mean 'triple' ?	10:41
ruskie	ups	10:41
ruskie	yeah	10:41
ruskie	still sleep deprived(like the rest of the week this week :( )	10:42
djszapi	nods happens, I am gonna try it later out and come ba ck.	10:42
djszapi	* back	10:42
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ArkN900	hehe, a guy from linuxcenter talked about interaction with chinese oems, i asked him if they are going to make any phones	10:47
ArkN900	the short answer is no, the long is they want to give nokia priority for some political reason apparently and do not want to compete	10:47
ArkN900	that sucks	10:47
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:55
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djszapi	ruskie: yeah, if I press the power button three times, I hear that voice, yep.	11:01
djszapi	how to eliminate that ?	11:01
ruskie	djszapi, remove espeak time iirc	11:01
djszapi	lol	11:01
djszapi	you are saying I must remove a package because I cannot configure its feature ?	11:01
ruskie	go to settings and see what you can change	11:02
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ruskie	but this is NOT a standard application	11:02
ruskie	it's something you installed yourself	11:02
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djszapi	yes, but I stick by my opinion.	11:02
djszapi	apt-get remove is a hammer solution	11:02
ruskie	go to settings and configure it	11:03
ruskie	it has some settings	11:03
ruskie	what they are I don't recall	11:03
ruskie	iir it's called eSpeakTime	11:03
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Khertan	Morning	11:58
RST38h	moorning Khertan	11:58
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jpala16	/identify	12:15
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RST38h	http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/481890.html	12:35
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lardman	thanks RST38h	13:13
lardman	what was Buteo then?	13:13
lardman	Buzzard afaict ;)	13:14
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lardman	lol @ last sentence about serious performance problems from Tracker	13:15
RST38h	lardman: Who knows?	13:16
lardman	RST38h: that seems to be precisely the problem :)	13:17
RST38h	lardman: there is a bigger problem in this thread	13:17
RST38h	lardman: tentatively known as Moblin	13:17
lardman	as in Meego is reverting to Moblin?	13:17
* lardman has not finished reading the email thread yet		13:17
RST38h	lardman: yes	13:18
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RST38h	<food>	13:18
lardman	enjoy! :)	13:19
SpeedEvil	Moblin is at least a less silly name.	13:19
SpeedEvil	I would argue that you should stick to a brand to build mindshare.	13:19
SpeedEvil	But...	13:19
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dangergrrl	pyradio hates me tonight	13:25
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andre__	~javispedro	13:44
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lardman	wow, that thread just runs and runs	13:47
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niala1	hello #	13:56
niala1	question: fremantle supposed to work from meego madde ?	13:57
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naemo	people, which is the best way to buy n900 in Germany?	14:04
naemo	I've bought one in US from amazon.com, now it costs there $350	14:05
niala1	naemo: in germany i don't know but i have a second hand for 200€ in france	14:05
naemo	however, amazon.de wants 350euro for n900 which is ~$500 which is expensive.	14:05
ruskie	that's expensive???	14:06
ruskie	I payed for mine 620eur new when I bought it	14:06
niala1	ruskie: yes but new ?	14:07
range	ruskie: Yeah, but that was way back when it was shiny, new and supported and had a great future in front of it :)	14:07
naemo	niala1: I would like to get a new one	14:07
ruskie	niala1, yeah... new from the local nokia distributor	14:07
dangergrrl	then buy the one in the us and pay VAT when you import it?	14:07
ruskie	it was supported???	14:07
ruskie	really???	14:07
range	Well, I got three SSU updates :)	14:07
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ruskie	dangergrrl, don't forget import duty ;)	14:08
naemo	ruskie: I bought my in US for $400 in autumn.	14:08
naemo	mine	14:09
dangergrrl	i dunno	14:09
naemo	Now I need yet another one, but in Germany :)	14:09
FIQ\|n900	Hmm	14:09
dangergrrl	only thing i've ever ordered internationally has been smart drugs shipped to the us from .nl or .uk	14:10
FIQ\|n900	When I forward X applications and attemt to type in them, typing is done in the console window, not the application	14:10
FIQ\|n900	why?	14:10
FIQ\|n900	attempt*	14:10
FIQ\|n900	in SSH, that is	14:11
FIQ\|n900	N900 is the client	14:11
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naemo	wait	14:11
naemo	you connect from maemo to other linux	14:11
ruskie	dangergrrl, hehe... I wouldn't call that internationally since it's all the EU...	14:11
naemo	with ssh -X	14:11
naemo	then get the application on your n900 screen	14:12
naemo	then type?	14:12
dangergrrl	ruskie: no, shipped into the usa from the eu	14:12
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naemo	so, in Europe price numbers are the same, but in euros?	14:12
ruskie	dangergrrl, ahh	14:12
ruskie	naemo, yes... due to import duty and VAT	14:12
ruskie	naemo, iirc most US online retailers show prices tax free	14:13
dangergrrl	this was back in the 1990s, i used to order hydergine, piracetam, and lucidril	14:13
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ruskie	since they have per state and city taxes iirc...	14:13
dangergrrl	much of the time you do not pay sales tax online in the states	14:13
dangergrrl	though it is complex	14:14
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ruskie	well I would assume you would need to declare it on the income tax form but don't possibly?	14:14
dangergrrl	if the company has a signifigant presence in the state you live in you are supposed to pay	14:14
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ruskie	I thought those already need to automatically add it to the price	14:14
FIQ\|n900	<naemo> then type?	14:14
FIQ\|n900	yes	14:14
dangergrrl	only if they have tyo	14:14
FIQ\|n900	also, everything else you said apply	14:15
dangergrrl	amazon.com should be collecting tax on orders shipped to texas because they have a furfillment center here	14:15
dangergrrl	but they do not	14:15
ruskie	hehe	14:15
dangergrrl	i paid no tax on my n900	14:15
toggles_	http://www.youmobile.org/blogs/entry/N900-to-Get-MeeGo-1-2-Update-in-28-April-Officially-Confirmed-by-Nokia	14:15
dangergrrl	$349 with free super saver shipping	14:15
FIQ\|n900	note that it's through wine, other _linux_ programs works :P	14:15
niala1	I ask again, maybe more luck. You know if fremantle/maemo is supposed to work from meego madde ?	14:16
naemo	niala1: what do you mean by "from meego"?	14:20
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naemo	niala1: ah, don't know	14:24
naemo	niala1: I know there's a project maemo-qemu and it is possible to run maemo on qemu now	14:24
niala1	i mean on meego netbook.	14:25
niala1	mad-admin create -f fremantle-pr13	14:25
niala1	Can not find '/usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/cache/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz' -- no such file.	14:25
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niala1	but he appear in 'mad-admin list' command	14:26
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ruskie	apparently you need to install something else or just add that file?	14:26
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niala1	add that file i think.	14:27
niala1	and maybe other after this	14:28
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naemo	niala1: sorry, didn't run madde at all	14:34
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naemo	I compile righ on device always	14:35
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dangergrrl	ok, pyradio is just somehow broken for me today, pandora works fine in the browser	14:41
niala1	naemo: on n900 ? 10x more time?	14:42
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RST38h	British Scientists strike again: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/11/balanced_journalism/	14:43
RST38h	Wait, no, Ohio Scientists this time	14:43
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ArkN900	shit. is there some cryptic browser gesture that causes spontaneous page reload? I see it happening quite frequently.	14:56
RST38h	Ark: Probably just deciding to reflow the page after loading some part of it	14:58
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RST38h	Happens when the page has showed up but has not yet loaded fully	14:58
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ArkN900	damn sucks	14:59
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ArkN900	it resets all form contents and page position	15:00
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luke-jr	how do you turn N900 back on if you hold down the power button?	15:35
luke-jr	besides waiting 60 seconds?	15:35
Lava_Croft	it doesnt take 60 seconds?	15:35
Lava_Croft	usually i have to wait like 10-15 seconds and then it will reboot again	15:35
Lava_Croft	i guess you could hack the power button behaviour somehowq	15:36
SpeedEvil	'off' is not off	15:36
SpeedEvil	'off' is shutting down, like any other linux box	15:36
Lava_Croft	aye	15:36
Lava_Croft	thats still off	15:36
SpeedEvil	In principle, you could restart faster by popping the batery	15:36
SpeedEvil	this is a bad idea	15:36
Lava_Croft	shutting down is going off	15:36
Lava_Croft	but this is semantics>_>	15:36
Lava_Croft	60s seems like an awful long time	15:37
SpeedEvil	For me, it's ~25s from 'switch off' to 'LED will glow and it will boot if you press button'.	15:38
SpeedEvil	Then another 30s or so till Mr Hands.	15:38
Lava_Croft	aye	15:38
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Lava_Croft	that sounds right	15:39
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totalizator	hi, if I'm building some package for Maemo then what goes to the "Maintainer" field? is it my name or the author of an app?	16:07
RST38h	you go there	16:07
merlin1991	Your name	16:07
RST38h	not the author, maintainer of the package	16:07
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totalizator	ok, thanks guys	16:07
divan	Does anyone know who is the author of this patched preenv version - http://wiki.maemo.org/Preenv/FAQ#Is_there_a_way_to_get_multitouch_working_in_Preenv ?	16:08
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SpeedEvil	divan: Check wikistory	16:21
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divan	SpeedEvil, the author of the wiki edit maybe other person. BTW, where do I find the wikistory link for this page?	16:24
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divan	Ah, found.	16:24
SpeedEvil	True.	16:24
SpeedEvil	also - search TMO	16:25
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divan	Already did.	16:28
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divan	I wonder why it's not included into preenv source tree. Why someone distribute patched libsdlpre.so in binary form?	16:29
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LjL	any clue why, when trying to put my N810 to soft poweroff (after enabling it, of course), the screen goes off and then on again, and then stays on (until it times out at least) - but is unresponsive until i press the power button again?	16:41
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LjL	also, what difference does it make to set the wifi to stay on or off during soft-poweroff? i mean, it doesn't seem to respond to SIP calls anyway even if it's left on	16:55
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sid	how does uboot starts? - hex -	16:59
DocScrutinizer	soft-off, as the name suggests, is stopping a lot of processes, for sure SIP. Anyway when you're messing with this configfile you might have noticed the "update while softoff" (OWTTE) setting, for which it helps a lot to be online	16:59
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DocScrutinizer	sid: please rephrase	17:02
LjL	DocScrutinizer: no i haven't noticed that one... i edited /etc/systemui/systemui.xml and /etc/mce/mce.ini so far. does that mean the phone will update packages automatically while in soft-off mode?	17:03
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DocScrutinizer	N810 isn't a phone, so I gather you ask if there's a difference regarding that between N810 and N900 - I dunno, I never tested that, just seen it in fremantle/N900 mce.ini IIRC	17:04
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LjL	ah no actually i don't know anything at all about the N900, i'm only really concerned about the N810	17:05
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LjL	DocScrutinizer: but anyway - is what you're saying that, on the N900, one reason you may want to keep wifi on even in softoff mode is this OWTTE setting?	17:06
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DocScrutinizer	~owtte	17:06
DocScrutinizer	~wtf owtte	17:06
infobot	Gee... I don't know what owtte means...	17:06
DocScrutinizer	~useless	17:06
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(		17:06
DocScrutinizer	or words to the effect	17:06
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LjL	DocScrutinizer: i googled it on site:maemo.org but didn't find very much :(	17:07
DocScrutinizer	~OWTTE is or words to the effect	17:07
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	17:07
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DocScrutinizer	LjL: anyway yes, that's my take on those settings as seen on N900 mce.ini	17:07
sid	is uboot offset from 6c 87 00 or 62 6f 74 61 from kernel - like 1f 8b 08 for gzip	17:07
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DocScrutinizer	duh	17:08
LjL	DocScrutinizer: so if i might ask for an uneducated opinion, given that the N810 doesn't seem to have this (i'll look better), and SIP (and email, and i guess IM, but i haven't tried IM) all go down during softoff, then there's no point leaving wifi on?	17:08
DocScrutinizer	prolly not, maybe except sshd	17:09
LjL	one annoying thing, though, is that if i set wifi to go off, then i have to bring it out of offline mode manually... even though i thought i set mce.ini so it should come out of it automatically :\	17:10
DocScrutinizer	that's strange, but what is softpff worth for anyway when no conection path to the device left operational	17:11
LjL	DocScrutinizer: well, it's faster to go back from than full poweroff	17:12
DocScrutinizer	sid: you probably better ask in #meego-arm, I think the uboot maintainer is over there	17:12
LjL	DocScrutinizer: and also, i've heard that rebooting (or poweroff+on) results in quite a lot of battery drain (and my battery indicator seems to confirm that)	17:13
DocScrutinizer	however softoff is no way like a real off, more like a normal screenlock, regarding power consumption	17:13
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GAN900	Random interested aside: What's that usual desk dictionary in the UK?	17:14
LjL	DocScrutinizer: hm, i see... well, it still could be nice as an easy-to-trigger "night mode", if wifi is off	17:14
DocScrutinizer	that's probably why it's been "banned" from normal UX	17:14
LjL	DocScrutinizer: i think it also shouldn't run the risk of some rogue program that's been left on eating the battery	17:15
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: eeh? Hornby?	17:15
GAN900	Hornby? Never heard of 'em.	17:15
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DocScrutinizer	Y.X.Hornby "complete dictionary of modern oxford english" or sth like that	17:16
DocScrutinizer	LjL: sounds reasonable to make a usecase out of that	17:17
LjL	i'm still mystified by whatever software configuration i had when i was sold this device	17:17
GAN900	Webster's is the usual here by a large margin. Followed by American Heritage, Oxford, etc.	17:17
LjL	the seller claimed he had reflashed it with the same official image i've flashed it with, but... it behaved differently	17:17
DocScrutinizer	miriam webster's - oh yeah	17:17
LjL	it had soft-off already available, and the LED didn't blink when it was triggered (or when the screen was off, for that matter), and other little things i don't remember	17:18
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DocScrutinizer	LjL: this all sounds like he reflashed the rootfs but restored several user settings	17:19
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LjL	when you restore user settings, does that include even things like /etc/systemui/systemui.xml?	17:19
DocScrutinizer	usually not I'd say	17:20
LjL	oh, one thing it did that i don't even know how to reproduce is that it showed a confirmation dialog before shutting down	17:20
DocScrutinizer	weird	17:20
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DocScrutinizer	you shaould ask the diablo hackers about it - I'm a mere user of stock diablo. No idea what hacks were common	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	I guess ShadowJK, javispedro, dunno who else would know a lot more about it	17:22
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: diablo?	17:22
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GAN900	Whatever I can remember.	17:23
DocScrutinizer	[2011-03-11 16:17:37] <LjL> the seller claimed he had reflashed it with the same official image i've flashed it with, but... it behaved differently	17:23
DocScrutinizer	ff	17:23
GAN900	LjL, no, stuff like that is not included.	17:23
GAN900	systemui.xml and mce.ini are the two files responsible for those behaviors.	17:24
LjL	that's why it's a damn mystery to me :P	17:24
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: maybe the prev owner had some hacker's edition or sth?	17:24
GAN900	Should still be documented on the wiki.	17:24
DocScrutinizer	and confused the images?	17:24
GAN900	Hmm, well, I don't know of any image with that stuff out of the box.	17:25
LjL	he gave me a windows exe he said was the one he used to flash	17:25
LjL	i flashed using it, to test, but got nothing like that	17:25
GAN900	Maybe he included some friendly hacks?	17:25
LjL	just a standard latest-diablo install	17:25
LjL	GAN900: i asked specifically, but he said no	17:25
LjL	unless it was some program i installed without realizing, but i can't imagine which	17:26
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LjL	i was thinking advanced power manager for a while	17:26
DocScrutinizer	I guess he didn't flash, and wasn't like admitting it	17:26
LjL	maybe	17:26
LjL	it's not like i was trying to blame him for not flashing though, i was just curious =)	17:26
DocScrutinizer	see, he sold the device - means he stopped using it on a regular basis some months ago. Maybe he forgot what a real flashing involves	17:27
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LjL	oh well	17:28
DocScrutinizer	quite easily he might have "flashed" the MyDocs data only - though I gather that's not even supported on diablo	17:28
LjL	i'm grateful to him for selling a device in such perfect physical conditions, and with three batteries included, anyway =)	17:29
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	17:29
GAN900	No	17:32
GAN900	Only flash NAND	17:33
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fiedel	Hello i discover a strange problem with acces to /var/tmp with microb firefox gpoddder and progrfam manger	17:35
DocScrutinizer	LjL: whatever it's been, a nice diskimage might have saved it for later forensics	17:35
fiedel	anbody ayny hintgs	17:35
MohammadAG	object_class->dispose <-- is this called when the object is destroyed?	17:35
MohammadAG	in this case, the status menu	17:35
MohammadAG	strange problem?	17:36
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DocScrutinizer	~ask	17:36
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	17:36
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fiedel	yeds i need to ereboot in order to get them working again	17:37
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DocScrutinizer	disk full?	17:39
fiedel	nonope	17:39
DocScrutinizer	df -h /var/tmp	17:39
GAN900	Jaffa, how much of a hassle is pushing to the 'pad on Saturdays?	17:40
DocScrutinizer	apropos diskimage (on a system where you can't easily umount the / ;-D ) - if I'd go for "killall -stop ; cp -x / /foo; killall -cont ", what would you suggest to do to inprove that sketched scheme? exempt bme (and of course own process;-P) from the SIGSTOP? sync? Anything else?	17:43
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DocScrutinizer	(yes I know ther are most likely way better approaches, like doing that e.g. in softoff, or in bootmenu, or whatever. Just a bit of brainjogging)	17:45
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DocScrutinizer	I'm afraid there's a lot of processes I wouldn't want to stop, not to freeze the copy task. Like e.g. X, maybe xterm, own shell, ...	17:48
dangergrrl	who is here against their will?	17:48
DocScrutinizer	MEEEE	17:48
DocScrutinizer	;-D	17:48
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GAN900	Ever seen A Clockword Orange?	17:51
DocScrutinizer	meh, screw X, even own xterm, as long as you don't want progress indicators :-)	17:51
fiedel	71% of rootfs free	17:52
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: your provider has a new eyecatcher at his shop?	17:52
Jaffa	GAN900: Not much of a hassle, as long as I do it.	17:52
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GAN900	Jaffa, made things a lot easier for me last time.	17:53
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fiedel	ok i'm coming back later from home have to leave bye	17:54
Pranav_rcmas	Hey people. I wish to apply for Maemo in the upcoming GSoC. I would like to know what level of experience is required, and what are the concepts I should get myself upto speed with, before trying to apply.	17:54
* DocScrutinizer envisions Orange has a n analog clock at their shops, where the hands are "Orange" for the large hand and maybe "t-mo" for the hours hand		17:55
* DocScrutinizer runs to (R) this		17:56
Jaffa	GAN900: Will do tomorrow.	17:57
DocScrutinizer	oops s/large/big/	17:57
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Cor-Ai	if i would like to start an widget via xterm, what should i do? :)	17:59
GAN900	Jaffa, thanks.	18:00
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GAN900	Are we participating in GSoC this year?	18:00
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DocScrutinizer	Cor-Ai: oufff. AIUI widgets are started as child processes (*.so) of hildon-desktop. No way to start such a thing like a normal process I guess	18:01
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Cor-Ai	DocScrutinizer: hmm.. I was afraid that would be the answer :/ well well, ty any way! :D	18:02
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, child processes?	18:03
lcuk	a .so is inprocess	18:03
DocScrutinizer	Cor-Ai: the method would mean to add the widget to wherever the list of hildon desktop widgets got stored, the kill hildon-desktop which amazingly enough will restart it without much impact on running apps	18:03
lcuk	runtime linkning	18:03
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: yesyes	18:03
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Cor-Ai	DocScrutinizer: ahh, well will have to live with hildon freezing 1-2 times a day (iknow that i can restart hildon but the widgets dosen't always load!)	18:05
DocScrutinizer	that's exactly because of this rether kinky method to start widgets	18:05
ccooke	lcuk: Of course, a .so could be written that talks to another process via some defined interface, allowing userspace widgets... :-)	18:06
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DocScrutinizer	if one widget doesn't behave, it kills all those coming after it	18:06
DocScrutinizer	rather*	18:06
ccooke	DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's the downside.	18:07
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Cor-Ai	thats just.. bad programing imo :p or lazy! :p	18:07
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lcuk	ccooke, yes of course it could	18:07
DocScrutinizer	poor design anyway	18:07
lcuk	usual mecehanisms are dbus etc	18:07
ccooke	Cor-Ai: memory efficient and processor efficient on an embedded system	18:07
lcuk	mechanisms too	18:07
ccooke	It's a standard practie of embedded design.	18:07
DocScrutinizer	ccooke: well, ok	18:08
Cor-Ai	ccooke: true.. but still enoing! :p	18:08
ccooke	The problem is, the systems it's used on aren't really in the embedded class any more	18:08
DocScrutinizer	ccooke: fork and monitor	18:08
ccooke	DocScrutinizer: Overhead :-)	18:08
Cor-Ai	well thanks for the answer, :)	18:08
DocScrutinizer	marginal	18:08
DocScrutinizer	Cor-Ai: yw	18:09
ccooke	DocScrutinizer: that's the problem being solved, anyway. the point is that it's not a big problem on modern designs	18:09
lcuk	Cor-Ai, test your system by removing half of your widgets for a couple of days	18:09
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lcuk	if crashing stops, problem in that half you removed	18:09
lcuk	inverse also likely true too	18:09
lcuk	:)	18:09
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lcuk	then narrow it down further	18:09
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Cor-Ai	lcuk: hehe im doing it :)	18:10
lcuk	good	18:10
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DocScrutinizer	binary triage	18:10
SpeedEvil	biage	18:11
Venemo_N900	hi	18:11
DocScrutinizer	I gather if you got to know the exact sequence of widget startup, you can tell which one failed as it's the "first" that doesn't show up on desktop. That's not helpful for crashes after loading all of them though	18:11
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: actually, yes :-)	18:12
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DocScrutinizer	or "how to chop down a b-tree"	18:13
ccooke	DocScrutinizer: no, no. you water the b-tree	18:14
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dangergrrl	george washington of the 21st century	18:46
dangergrrl	i cannot tell a lie it was i who chopped down the b-tree	18:46
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pupnik	ewww	18:52
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deno	hi guys	19:02
deno	speaking about usb-host mode	19:02
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deno	the modifies have you done, are just modifies that are present in the new kernel?	19:03
deno	for example, with a patch	19:03
alterego	Nice improvement in the last acceptance.	19:03
deno	alterego, for me?	19:03
alterego	No, for the N900 :P	19:04
MohammadAG	deno, no, they're custom written	19:04
alterego	Oh wait, wrong channel.	19:04
MohammadAG	i.e written from scratch	19:04
* MohammadAG points and laughs at alterego		19:04
deno	uhm	19:05
deno	MohammadAG, cool	19:05
deno	but wait, does the new kernel support it?	19:05
MohammadAG	no idea	19:05
MohammadAG	you're free to experiment	19:05
deno	the OTG should be present in the normal kernel or I mean,	19:06
deno	without the Nokia patches	19:06
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MohammadAG	umm, what?	19:07
MohammadAG	OTG is present in all kernels with musb_core	19:07
MohammadAG	but the N900 lacks OTG support on the hardware level	19:07
deno	uhm	19:08
* deno think mode		19:08
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deno	what do you mean at HW level?	19:09
pupnik	game controller for Nokia N8 http://twitpic.com/3bewqb	19:09
MohammadAG	deno, I mean the N900 doesn't and won't support OTG on the HW level, it lacks the pin required to do auto switching and the port isn't compaitible	19:10
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deno	MohammadAG, are you speaking about the usb controller, that the HW is different from other usb controller	19:11
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MohammadAG	no, I'm taking about the hardware, the USB port	19:11
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deno	ok	19:12
deno	I don't know if you rimember me, we spoken also other times	19:13
deno	i'm trying to get high bandwidth isochronous transfers working on N900	19:13
MohammadAG	I remember :p	19:14
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deno	:D	19:14
deno	now I succeed to get packets	19:15
deno	the first packets of every frame are ok	19:15
deno	I can see something but after it's all wrong :P	19:15
deno	so I think there are still problems in the kernel	19:15
deno	even if I added all the highbandwidth support	19:16
deno	I saw that there is a new patch that should increase the performance	19:16
deno	but it's for a very very recent kernel so it's a mess to apply it manually because there are too many dependencies	19:17
SpeedEvil	TI have an omap forum on their site.	19:17
SpeedEvil	Maybe worth an ask?	19:17
deno	TI?	19:17
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deno	I spoke with one guy and they said me to apply this patch	19:17
deno	I was thinking to use a new kernel but you said me before that it's a mess because of the Nokia patches	19:18
deno	I was told that maybe I could use the new kernel and after use the omap2plus_defconfig	19:19
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deno	there's specific support for nokia n810	19:19
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deno	do you kwow if someone have tried a new kernel with the n900 (using Maemo, not meego)	19:20
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deno	because my idea was to use a new kernel and after maybe apply your OTG support	19:20
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DocScrutinizer51	we don't have OTG support. We support generic hostmode though (sorry for getting anal here)	19:36
deno	yep	19:37
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deno	k	19:37
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DocScrutinizer51	deno: IIRC I told you about the comments in musb_core source stating there are missing bits for bandwidth mgmt et al, origining to mentorgraphix or TI. I also metioned the upstream patches and we can't use them with a new kernel as maemo closed blobs lock us down to .28 /sys and others	19:49
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deno	uhm	19:49
deno	DocScrutinizer, yes there were high bandwidth problems but with some patches they should be ok	19:50
DocScrutinizer51	so only feasible way is to backport the upstream patches, which will be much appreciated if someone does it and I'm willing to include that to h-e-n and propagate to PK	19:50
deno	uhm	19:50
deno	yes I made a backport	19:51
deno	for some patches	19:51
deno	but it is still not working properly	19:51
deno	if I succeed I will share all with the community for sure :)	19:52
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deno	DocScrutinizer, do you think it's really impossible to make the n900 boot with an update kernel	19:53
deno	I don't mind about the other functionalities	19:53
deno	I care (in this case) just about the usb so	19:53
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DocScrutinizer51	some subsystems will fail. No idea which ones	19:54
deno	uhm ok	19:54
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DocScrutinizer51	e.g. bme, mce, dsme...	19:54
deno	also related to usb?	19:55
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DocScrutinizer51	unclear	19:55
deno	k	19:56
deno	the best thing is to try it :P	19:56
deno	I ll let you know	19:56
DocScrutinizer51	if the system bootloops then probably usb hostmode is useless anyway :-)	19:57
deno	ah	19:57
deno	right, one thing	19:57
deno	meego uses new kernels	19:57
DocScrutinizer51	but I'm very interested in real world results	19:57
deno	shouldn't it be possible to use h-e-n patches (modified) for it ?	19:58
lolcat	I hate that stupid shop!	19:58
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RST38h	<yawn>	19:58
javispedro	afternoon, gentlemen.	19:58
lolcat	I got an offer for N900 for 2500NOK I think if I put my charm on I could get it for 2000, good deal?	19:58
DocScrutinizer51	deno: basivally h-e-n patches should work on meego as well	19:58
RST38h	moo javispedro	19:58
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DocScrutinizer51	hi javispedro	19:58
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deno	DocScrutinizer, I think they need some modifies because the kernel version is different	19:59
DocScrutinizer51	well, see what's going to happen when you apply the hen patches	20:00
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deno	yup	20:00
deno	thx for the talk :)	20:00
DocScrutinizer51	tw	20:00
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DocScrutinizer51	if there are problems on applying hen patches to meego kernel, let me know	20:01
Wizzup	Any known issues when using CSSU+Power kernel with Fcam? I can't get fcam to work, from testing repos	20:01
Wizzup	When I reboot I just don't have any /dev/video* devices at all	20:01
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deno	DocScrutinizer, ok :)	20:02
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Wizzup	got the packages from devel, seems to work now	20:14
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ZogG	i wonder how many Israeli guys here?	20:18
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ZogG	DocScrutinizer, and you don't even bother to count =\	20:18
MohammadAG	GuySoft, you, me, think that's it	20:20
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MohammadAG	(re: <ZogG> i wonder how many Israeli guys here?)	20:20
MohammadAG	though I'm technically not an Israeli, oh well	20:20
ZogG	MohammadAG i think i talked with 1 or 2 guys	20:20
ZogG	MohammadAG, what GPS app do you use?	20:21
MohammadAG	iOS one	20:21
DocScrutinizer	burp	20:21
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MohammadAG	Google has the API for Israel maps blocked, why should I bother	20:22
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MohammadAG	only google.com (not the mobile one fyi) and iOS can show our maps	20:22
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ZogG	MohammadAG, yeah i was wondering why some nice google maps apps for maemos using gogole are just white for me =)	20:23
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MohammadAG	heh, zoom out, you'll see some lines	20:23
ZogG	MohammadAG, is Waze israeli startup? and is it based on freeroad?	20:23
MohammadAG	hmm?	20:23
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ZogG	MohammadAG, it's not about zoom out asin browser it works, at hybrid maps it works but layers map it doesn't or how you call them	20:26
DocScrutinizer	what's that thing about all the google shit? I even feel unhappy about google search, and our government ponders to forbid google or whatever, to break their defacto monopoly. The rest of the world starts whining if they can't use gmail, gtalk, gmaps, gcraprandom. I just can repeat: I hate g*, this applies for gnome as well as google	20:27
MohammadAG	yeah I know	20:27
MohammadAG	but you can see some lines, for whatever reason they're there	20:27
ZogG	MohammadAG check out GeePS it's white	20:27
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, google doesn't show israeli maps on API	20:27
MohammadAG	yes ^	20:27
jacekowski	anybody from belgium?	20:27
DocScrutinizer	fine!	20:27
ZogG	DocScrutinizer political things	20:27
ZogG	they don't want MohammadAG to blow up strategic things	20:28
DocScrutinizer	so one reason more to not use google-crap and look for better alternatives that don't eat your soul	20:28
MohammadAG	there is no other crap :)	20:28
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RST38h	ZogG: Is he going to do it via Google?	20:28
ZogG	DocScrutinizer, last time google tryed to take maps with SAT of Dimona they army just made it see huge black spot =)	20:28
MohammadAG	http://tomch.com/maemaps.html browse to Israel if you want to see what I mean	20:29
RST38h	ZogG: Is there a magical HTTPrequest I can send to google servers to blow things??? =)	20:29
RST38h	Can I have it? Can I? CAN I?	20:29
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ZogG	DocScrutinizer, nope cause of security situation there are only 4 maps of israel	20:29
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ZogG	waze and openmap is community	20:30
MohammadAG	yes, send anything sour	20:30
ZogG	goole maps	20:30
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ZogG	and one that got goverment permission but and sells them to companies like iGo and so on	20:30
ZogG	Waze is pretty aweome	20:30
ZogG	awesome though	20:31
lcuk	4 maps only!	20:31
lcuk	do people just crowd around them?	20:31
ZogG	RST38h, i don't get it why you don't use it in Russia	20:31
ZogG	lcuk i mean digital ones	20:31
* RST38h checks .IL map on maps.google.com: looks ok, but pretty gray and sad		20:31
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RST38h	Why do you need a map anyway? It appears to be mostly sand!	20:31
MohammadAG	maps.google.com work	20:31
MohammadAG	works*	20:31
lcuk	ZogG, you do know you can make more digital copies	20:31
lcuk	so there can be many more than just 4	20:32
ZogG	lcuk ?	20:32
ZogG	RST38h the the holy sites where Jesus was killed and suffer =)	20:32
* MohammadAG starts pondering what to study		20:32
MohammadAG	and more importantly; where	20:33
ZogG	no offense for religious people, just joking (didn't think 1st if there are any here)	20:33
RST38h	ZogG: Ok, but why repeat his career path? =)	20:33
RST38h	Mohammad: CS.	20:33
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ZogG	MohammadAG, anyway i was lurking in waze code, i think it's pretty much portable to maemo, even found something mention Qt and GTK there	20:33
MohammadAG	RST38h, was thinking CS and EE, wondering if the jobs offers for those are good though	20:34
RST38h	Mohammad: they are	20:34
MohammadAG	EE part would be to go head on with DocScrutinizer to see whose N900 explodes faster	20:34
ZogG	most libs are linux ones and it's same opengl for android as for maemo	20:34
RST38h	Mohammad: would go with CS though, with EE as a possible minor (if applicableand if you can stay thecourse load)	20:34
ZogG	MohammadAG EE?	20:34
ZogG	MohammadAG, go to Tehnion	20:35
MohammadAG	Electrical Engineering	20:35
MohammadAG	Technion?	20:35
ZogG	or go to Afeka in Tel-Aviv	20:35
RST38h	EE is a really useful thing to know, but CS gets more use nowadays	20:35
MohammadAG	Isn't the hebrew uni good?	20:35
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ZogG	MohammadAG, my friend just finished in Afeka EE and he is working for Intel now =)	20:35
MohammadAG	though I probably need Psechometry or whatever it's called right ZogG?	20:36
ZogG	MohammadAG hebrew is the best for programming as far as i know, but anyway you finish Technion you get any job you desire(if you finish well)	20:36
ZogG	MohammadAG, yes you do	20:36
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MohammadAG	ZogG, for some reason, I don't plan on working here :P	20:37
ZogG	MohammadAG, but you said you don't know any hebrew	20:37
ZogG	MohammadAG, haha, true	20:37
MohammadAG	that can change	20:37
ZogG	but you can start here with international company and easily move on	20:37
RST38h	If you do not intend to work in .IL, why study in .IL?	20:38
RST38h	You can go to Europe or US	20:38
MohammadAG	US -> I'd need to pass the SAT	20:38
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ZogG	MohammadAG, US? meh, europe ftw	20:39
RST38h	Mohammad: And you are afraid of a freking SAT?	20:39
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MohammadAG	RST38h, no, I'm actually considering it more than learning Hebrew and studying in a language I hate	20:39
MohammadAG	no offense ZogG :P	20:39
ZogG	MohammadAG none taken	20:39
RST38h	Mohammad: azohenvei	20:39
MohammadAG	you're russian anyway	20:39
MohammadAG	azohe what?	20:40
RST38h	Mohammad: never mind	20:40
MohammadAG	:p	20:40
RST38h	Mohammad: Andrew Tannenbaum is teaching in .NL BTW	20:41
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RST38h	Mohammad: Not sure if he is teaching a specific class on effective trolling of Linux kernel developers though	20:41
MohammadAG	RST38h, I might know the nick, who's he?	20:41
RST38h	Mohammad: MINIX author	20:41
MohammadAG	lol	20:41
RST38h	Mohammad: The guy who forever changed Linus' life :)	20:42
RST38h	Also authored some pretty damn good books on Computer Systems	20:42
MohammadAG	positively? :P	20:42
javispedro	so, what do you do when some mac head sends you a dvd image... in a .dmg?????	20:43
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RST38h	Mohammad: I am afraid not.	20:43
ZogG	javispedro, if you use linux it's not a problem	20:44
RST38h	Mohammad: But it is the modulus that counts	20:44
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javispedro	ZogG: you can bet I'm using Linux and so far it's been an insourmountable problem.	20:44
javispedro	"file" says something along the lines of "VAX executable"	20:44
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ZogG	mount -t hfs -o loop myImage.dmg /macdisk	20:45
javispedro	it is ISO9660 cdrom	20:45
javispedro	well	20:45
javispedro	or so I think...	20:45
RST38h	Mohammad: There is a bunch of good schools in the US too =)	20:45
RST38h	And as you appear to know English already, it shouldn't be a problem	20:46
lcuk	javispedro, print out data using 72point font and fedex it back to him	20:46
ZogG	javispedro file myImage.dmg	20:46
javispedro	ZogG: "VAX executable"	20:46
MohammadAG	RST38h, I use google translate :P	20:46
javispedro	lcuk: I am considering going there and killing him.	20:46
javispedro	specially since another transfer will not be possible until past weekend...	20:47
lcuk	that is a bit OTT considering it is only a bit of data	20:47
RST38h	You would like to kill a VAX?	20:47
lcuk	what is on the dvd?	20:47
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javispedro	good point	20:47
RST38h	Doesn'tthat count as hunting endangered species?	20:47
* javispedro goes search some recovery tool		20:47
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ZogG	javispedro, hmm one of forum suggest to renaim to bz2 and trying to unpack it and than renaim file inside to .hfs and using hfsplus	20:48
javispedro	but I guess it would have some kind of bz2 header then..	20:49
ruskie	isn't there an undAmAge tool anywhere?	20:49
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ZogG	javispedro, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1155734	20:50
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ZogG	javispedro, ou’ll need to install a basic tool called dmg2img (http://vu1tur.eu.org/tools/).	20:50
ZogG	there is tool to convert as well	20:51
javispedro	okkk	20:51
ZogG	http://www.thelinuxblog.com/open-apple-dmg-files-on-linux/ - check this oner	20:51
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javispedro	ok, dmg2img seems to recognize it, thanks!	20:54
ZogG	javispedro =)	20:54
javispedro	(which makes sense since it should be a dvd image..)	20:54
ZogG	MohammadAG, i would miss you if you leave me here alone with maemo =)	20:55
* ZogG xmms2> Ace Ventura - The Light (Zen Mechanics Remix) ["Re:Boot" 2008]		20:55
javispedro	effective trolling of Linux kernel developers 101 :D	20:56
ZogG	дщд	20:57
ZogG	lol	20:58
ZogG	i think there is connection between 101 and lol	20:58
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ZogG	RST38h, why didn't you go to meego conference btw?	21:00
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RST38h	ZogG: Work. + none of the .FI people I know went there	21:02
MohammadAG	ZogG, hah	21:03
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RST38h	ZogG: Or do you mean The Conference?	21:03
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RST38h	Two .JP nuclear power plants are burning. A double feature!	21:06
TiagoTiago	Hi	21:06
lolcat	Japan + nuclear is always a blast :P	21:07
derf	Not to mention the oil refineries, the airports...	21:08
RST38h	Has Godzilla come?	21:08
derf	http://grab.by/9pfJ	21:09
RST38h	derf: ...and Godzilla is NOT happy, judging from his face	21:10
TiagoTiago	Would there be a way to trick the 4 wires touch sensor in the N900 turning arbitrary wires positive and negative (instead of having each always be either positive or negative), and measure the results, allowing the system to see the difference between a single touch and more than one?	21:11
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MohammadAG	poor japan, another quake	21:11
derf	RST38h: That was from http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4578856/mozilla-ceo-on-the-latest-version-of-firefox/?playlist_id=87063 I believe.	21:12
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TiagoTiago	If there was, it would allow limited dualtouch emulation, no?	21:13
ZogG	MohammadAG so i saw one guy said he would pay 100 $ for Waze on Maemo 5 and i have friend that actually port things between mobile platforms, so it can be double profit =)	21:13
MohammadAG	I don't do things for profit ZogG :)	21:13
guardian	hi, long time i didn't use my n800; i want to recycle it to a dlna client to play mp3s in my living room through wifi. can you please suggest me which os update + which dnla client to use?	21:14
RST38h	def: how fortunate it is that I do not get to watch Fox... :)	21:14
ZogG	MohammadAG, me either, i wouldn't get money	21:14
RST38h	Mohammad: But look at the bright side: a few quakes like this one, and it will look exactly like in those post-apocaliptic anime flicks	21:15
Corsac	with tentacles?	21:15
ZogG	i would give money for guy who would do it, as he doesn't have maemo and he has no profit on just porting it on his free time =)	21:15
RST38h	...and if those reactors rupture, there is even a chance of some furry mutant schoolgirls running around!	21:15
lolcat	RST38h: That sounds hawt	21:16
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TiagoTiago	mutant tentacles and furry schoolgirls, that's a world worth living in	21:16
ZogG	lol	21:17
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ZogG	suddenly so many peopl talking ah?	21:17
penguinbait	its Firday!!	21:17
penguinbait	I mean Friday!	21:17
javispedro	Fast infrared day!	21:17
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penguinbait	Free infrared day!	21:19
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TiagoTiago	Free mutant japanese schoolgirls!	21:24
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ZogG	TiagoTiago are you the one tht trolling at TMO? i think i recognize your nick	21:25
SpeedEvil	With every purchase?	21:25
TiagoTiago	Trolling?	21:25
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RST38h	Ah, so, it is melting down!	21:27
kerio	TiagoTiago: not today, japan is having problems	21:27
TiagoTiago	the problems are what are gonna create them :P	21:27
federico2	"having problems"?	21:27
DocScrutinizer	HAH! http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10099?sort=0	21:28
TiagoTiago	what's that?	21:29
TiagoTiago	Is that a striped down N900?	21:30
DocScrutinizer	a half N900	21:30
TiagoTiago	i see	21:30
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: not yet, but likely	21:30
RST38h	He has killed an N900! And mounted its corpse!	21:30
RST38h	Doc: Raising radiation levels and core pressure	21:31
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DocScrutinizer	yep	21:31
DocScrutinizer	aren't nuklear power plants a cute thing?	21:31
javispedro	RST38h: url?	21:32
DocScrutinizer	well, japanese are so smart, they survived the only two warship nuclear explosions ever happening, so probably don't care much about a core meltdown	21:32
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: TV	21:33
RST38h	javispedro: looking for an English version	21:33
DocScrutinizer	CNN et al	21:33
TiagoTiago	Worse case they just lock down the building for around a century like with some US plants or is there really the risk things gonna get messy?	21:33
* javispedro types tv://		21:33
RST38h	Doc: Rather "Japanese are really creative and hilarious about their nuclear disasters"	21:33
RST38h	(and I do not mean the sad WWII stuff)	21:33
TiagoTiago	lol	21:33
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: that's been the subtext of my last post	21:34
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ZogG	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9t-GXKFA4M - looks neat	21:34
RST38h	javispedro: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/	21:34
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javispedro	ah, they got warning	21:35
javispedro	worst that happens is that the plant gets ruined, then.	21:36
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RST38h	well, worst that happens is that the whole down-wind area around the plant is ruined	21:37
javispedro	that is very pessimist for a modern plant..	21:38
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RST38h	javispedro: afaik, there are no modern nuclear plants, most were built a while ago	21:38
TiagoTiago	Don't they build those plants to hold the nuke blast inside?	21:38
RST38h	Thiago: sorry, what nuke blast?	21:38
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TiagoTiago	the nuclear explosion when the core goes critical	21:38
javispedro	no way.	21:39
RST38h	Tiago:there is no nuclear explosion	21:39
TiagoTiago	I thought that was what happened when they can't control the reaction	21:39
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RST38h	Tiago: just a normal heat explosion, usually from the steam of whatever circulates in the heat exchanger	21:39
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DocScrutinizer	anyway there's no building to hold those energies back	21:41
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TiagoTiago	So all they have to deal with is sudden expansion of radioactive steam? That doesn't sound all that hard todeal with if you build the whole place with the worse case scenario in mind	21:41
DocScrutinizer	they consider to vent the containment to lower the pressure now :-S	21:41
DocScrutinizer	emergency cooling is powered by batteries which will deplete in a few hours	21:42
RST38h	Ah cool	21:42
javispedro	batteries? =)	21:42
javispedro	here they have gas	21:42
RST38h	As I said, Japanese are REALLY hilarious when it comes to nuclear disasters	21:42
DocScrutinizer	everything else broke	21:42
RST38h	For example: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf37.html	21:42
TiagoTiago	just build a whole underground ring around the thing, pump all the air out of it, and when things go boom just open the hatches and let the vacuum suck	21:42
DocScrutinizer	errr yes TiagoTiago	21:43
javispedro	TiagoTiago: you're already assuming the plant is ruined. so far, everything I've read tends to indicate they're still not that worried.	21:43
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TiagoTiago	Better to suck the radioactive steam than to vent it to the atmosphere	21:43
frals	they are venting some gas which they claim to have very low nuclear activity and is not harmful for humans/environment	21:44
ZogG	TiagoTiago you can nuke the plant just in case something wrong	21:44
frals	other than that its fine	21:44
DocScrutinizer	when a core melts it goes thru the ground no matter if that's concrete or whatever and it's anybody's guess when it will stop its journey to center of earth. Actually it'd be quite nice when it didn't stop until vanished completely :-P	21:44
ZogG	it would be double nuke - double win	21:44
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frals	... that what the media here is making us believe, anyway	21:44
RST38h	Meanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/11/symbian-ui-overhaul-scheduled-for-the-fall/	21:45
ZogG	frals, bw wanted to ask you, do you mind to implent portrait mode in fmms	21:45
RST38h	Doc: Not really	21:45
DocScrutinizer	frals: in Japan noting ever is harmful to anything	21:45
DocScrutinizer	or anybody	21:45
ZogG	RST38h looks like meego preview and android	21:46
TiagoTiago	Well, except full resolution cartoon genitals	21:46
ZogG	i would like that music widget to be ported anyway =)	21:46
ZogG	RST38h haha i liked that thin applet to pull down cough android cough	21:47
javispedro	=)	21:47
TiagoTiago	So when a core meltsdown you can turn the nucular into a geothermal plant without needing to drill anything?	21:47
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ZogG	RST38h, but i think others people problems are morei nteresting news to people	21:47
javispedro	nu cu lar.	21:47
TiagoTiago	indeed	21:48
RST38h	ZogG: Fire. Water. People at work. One can watch these three for ever and ever.	21:48
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ZogG	RST38h, yeah especially when your ass in warm place and you can judge them that they did it wrong and could prevent it	21:48
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ZogG	https://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/256198842.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1299873453&Signature=1wZtDGF%2FeXa5%2BmfWZAjRTU8HITE%3D	21:49
ZogG	here some japs roads are crashing for ya	21:49
TiagoTiago	Kinda ironical how a powerplant is having issues with getting enough power to run itself	21:50
RST38h	Nah, why do you think I would want them to prevent it?	21:50
TiagoTiago	Looks like a fun place to ride a downhill bike	21:51
RST38h	http://drugoi.livejournal.com/3507253.html#cutid1	21:51
TiagoTiago	some awesome photographies there	21:53
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TiagoTiago	I wish there parks designed like that half wavy road around where i live	21:56
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ZogG	http://probablyinteractive.com/url-hunter - nice thing =)	21:58
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wazd	hi all	22:00
TiagoTiago	that doesn't seem playable on microB :\	22:01
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GAN900	That tsunami footage across the farmland in Japan is unreal.	22:06
DocScrutinizer	absolutely	22:06
DocScrutinizer	not only the farmland	22:07
DocScrutinizer	I've seen a short clip that looked like 500 massive houses wiped away in seconds	22:07
ZogG	wazd i searched for you	22:08
ZogG	wazd i even missed you	22:08
ZogG	wazd слыш паренек, джаббер джид дай погонять, а? =)	22:08
TiagoTiago	I saw this one that looks like this little puddle of mud and twigs oozing by, it's actually a bunch of cars, trucks, boats and assorted urban debri going around this warehouse-like building	22:09
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TiagoTiago	The thing was so huge that from far away it looked like it was a small very viscous mud blob	22:11
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TiagoTiago	hm, i gotta go now, cya	22:13
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javispedro	tmo is already getting overexcited because of the meego developer edition news..	22:15
javispedro	some lemmings already calling it "PR1.4"	22:15
ruskie	can someone use a nice hammer?	22:16
* Arkenoi returned from meego conference		22:19
javispedro	???????'	22:19
Arkenoi	atom atom atom atom atom atom atom	22:19
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* DocScrutinizer whispering "remember my prophecy about maemo's first class funeral with a harmattan-meego hybrid release full of borkedness and rolled out under label PR1.4" while leaving for a walk...		22:22
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GAN900	javispedro, sorry, we moved it. You missed it. :P	22:28
GAN900	javispedro, planning on trying for SF?	22:28
SwedeMike	I heard good things about maemo SSU today anyway, is it time to upgrade (I need the phone to work)	22:29
SwedeMike	community SSU I should say	22:29
javispedro	GAN900: so far not, I will have problems at those dates (prolly new job)	22:29
korhojoa	Where exactly can one find the community SSU?	22:29
lcuk	in the community.	22:30
GAN900	javispedro, too bad.	22:30
GAN900	DocScrutinizer?	22:30
javispedro	yeah... specially since it's on the states and it's being time I visit them =)	22:30
lcuk	GAN900, todays quake and stuff is awful :(	22:30
SwedeMike	korhojoa: google say http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU	22:31
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DocScrutinizer51	GAN900: ??	22:32
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* DocScrutinizer51 curses - FMradio app vanished		22:34
GAN900	DocScrutinizer51, gonna try for SF?	22:35
GAN900	javispedro, clearly it's time to put on your negotiator's cap with your new boss.	22:35
GAN900	SF is an awfully nice place to visit.	22:36
DocScrutinizer51	NFI what u talk bout	22:36
DocScrutinizer51	sorry walkimg	22:36
javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: there's a meego conference in san francisco	22:37
javispedro	in few months	22:37
DocScrutinizer51	I'd love to visit SF, alas no ticket no money	22:37
GAN900	DocScrutinizer51, sponsorship?	22:38
DocScrutinizer51	:) welcome	22:39
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DocScrutinizer51	vme wonders if IPradio would be better than installing FMrx via 3G	22:39
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: have you tried my app?	22:40
korhojoa	IPradio isn't really that good if you've got a flaky connection	22:40
javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: cfmradio, package should be less than 150KiB with no deps	22:40
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DocScrutinizer51	** downloading 855.xKB..... insatllation of FM radio not possible :-(	22:43
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javispedro	your PR1.2->CSSU->PR1.3 setup is really broken ;)	22:44
korhojoa	:D	22:44
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merlin1991	CSSU->PR1.3? did you "revert" again?	22:48
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer51, at least make sure you register and apply.	22:57
MohammadAG	of all places, SF heh	22:58
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MohammadAG	tickets cost at least $1400 to SF, I'll pass :)	22:59
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MohammadAG	I wonder if my mediaplayer would run on MeeGo...	23:00
MohammadAG	should just need mafw recompiled I guess	23:00
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pupnik	http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14007892 Teen killed after stowing away in the wheel-well of a Boeing 737. Parents sue airport.	23:02
pupnik	I was going to see if anyone survived such a stunt	23:02
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DocScrutinizer51	found the icon that vanished from apmefo. FMrx somehow works but no audio	23:02
MohammadAG	silent?	23:02
DocScrutinizer51	btw HAM log says "error on overwriting FMrx.desktop"	23:03
MohammadAG	heh, stock mediaplayer is tricky	23:03
MohammadAG	it doesn't update the UI when it isn't visible	23:03
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MohammadAG	but it detects when you're in the task manager	23:03
Pillum	mohammed, how you know?	23:03
MohammadAG	I wasn't even sure if that was possible	23:03
MohammadAG	dbus-monitor --session is the easiest way	23:04
MohammadAG	if you're in terminal, you'll get nothing	23:04
MohammadAG	go out of terminal, you'll see new lines calling get_position every 1s	23:04
MohammadAG	funny as now I just remembered in PR1.0 the progress bar never updated in the task manager	23:05
* MohammadAG wonders how they did it		23:05
MohammadAG	mafw is kind of good	23:06
MohammadAG	stock player makes it suck	23:06
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GAN900	MohammadAG, APPLY for SPONSORSHIP! :)	23:16
GAN900	MohammadAG, if you don't get it I'll have lost all faith in the project and its directors. :)	23:16
GAN900	SpeedEvil, I'm calling you out, too. :P	23:19
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ZogG_lap	damn i forgot AC of laptop at home	23:41
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ZogG_lap	wazd: sup	23:42
ZogG_lap	here at work already	23:42
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DocScrutinizer51	GAN900: to get sponsorship for any meego conf I guess I need to pollish my image of my attitude toward meego ;-)	23:47
GAN900	DocScrutinizer51, not necessarily. But putting words into action would probably be recommended.	23:48
GAN900	In fact, I should probably say: Not at all.	23:48
GAN900	But action does talk.	23:48
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DocScrutinizer51	what action are you thinkin of?	23:51
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tybollt	gan!	23:56
tybollt	GAN900: do spill about the n950? when when when?	23:56
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rtyler	heh	23:58
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