IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-03-09

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javispedroha, ha.00:16
javispedroso days after I made my snark comments about how the top android apps are gpl violations, some noname company does a full scan and finds that00:17
javispedro"71% of Android and iPhone apps containing open source failed to comply with the open source licenses that OpenLogic analyzed. "00:17
javispedrono shit sherlock!00:18
Sc0rpiuswhy do they fail to complay the license? because they are not releasing the source code involved?00:18
Sc0rpiuseverybody does that, even Sony with their PS3 and using Apache libraries00:19
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pupnikit's pretty amazing having 32GB in a phone00:52
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infobotoptification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence301:05
infobotfrom memory, fhs is the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard and is at, or included in the debian-policy package01:05
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infobot[fsm] The Flying Spaghetti Monster, the deity of the internet01:07
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Venemotake a look at -> why does it remind me of Hildon-Desktop?01:32
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pupnikwow, 1994 says hello with a .gif product banner
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pupniklardman|gone: Tame Impala (youtube it)
pupniksame style?02:25
pupnikImpala - really great psychedelic retro
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lolcatI think the cargerport is breaking04:32
lcukand your h key.04:35
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lolcatYeah, I cleaned the keyboard, after I was done I had two less keys xD04:36
lcuklolcat, i have found certain usb cables themselves get bent out of shape04:36
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lolcatI have tried two diffrent usb chargers and the wall charger04:43
lolcatI have another usb cable in my car but I guess that won't help04:44
lolcatShould the ligth be constant yellow while charging?04:44
pupniki would buy a USB cable with a shorter lead04:45
lcuki think it is constant when totally flat and off?  and pulsing normally04:45
lolcatI guess I have to return it :/04:45
lolcatProbably the easiest course of action04:46
lolcat"It won't charge, fix it" -"uhm, ok"04:46
lolcatWait a week and they have done something/ give me my moneys back04:46
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lolcatBut then I will be stuck with some shit phone for a week04:47
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kpomanhello ! uys can someone help me please ? I was doing an apt-get update + upgrade on debian chroot and the phone turned off and now it seems a bit screwed up05:06
kpomanso what is the script to chroot from a terminal ?05:06
kpomandebian I guess05:09
kpomando someone know if I can enlarge the file ? I guess I got out of space ...  "-rw-r--r--    1 user     root    2147483648 Nov 29 03:55 /home/user/MyDocs/debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2"05:19
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pupnikwoo putty + ssh + screen on e71 :D05:45
lolcatCould the battery be dead?05:46
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Termanagood morning06:47
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MohammadAGmorning Termana06:48
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pupnikWhat did the Dalai Lama, say to the hot-dog man?  "Make me one, with everything"08:09
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ruskie <-- interesting solution I wonder if it could be done on the N900 using chroots/pivot_root08:33
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AsiQuemorning all... does someone here used the resize icon / widgets hildon home and can remember if when setting a small size for bookmarks the text disappeared?08:57
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AsiQueMohammadAG: ping08:59
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pupnikruskie: i don't see a clean way to do that aside from a dual-boot with one OS using encrypted storage09:02
pupniktotal rat's nest of permissions09:02
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ruskiepupnik, or some fuse FS that redirects certain calls to an alt store?09:03
ruskieor some preload library that does the same09:03
pupnikhow is that going to give you one browser / call history / document set for business encrypted, while private is somewhere else09:04
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ruskiethe alt store can be encrypted09:04
ruskiethere could even be multiple alt stores09:05
pupniknot possible to meet corporate security09:05
pupnik"out to lunch"~09:06
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pupnikNorman: We all go a little mad sometimes. Haven't you?10:27
pupnikMarion: Yes. Sometimes just one time can be enough.10:27
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DocScrutinizer51why are my queenbeecon buttons gone after SSU upgradem to PR1.3 and installation of CSSU?11:01
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DocScrutinizer51or got they killed by theme switching?11:02
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dashavooBah =(11:13
dashavooA book fell on my N900 last night, smashing the screen11:13
DocScrutinizer51oh shiiit11:14
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dashavooI'm guessing the Warranty won't cover it11:16
dashavoodamn, I've been speaking too much German... I've started capitalising all my nouns =S *warranty11:16
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alteregoRST38h: ping11:18
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khertan... last meego image is still far to be ready for application dev11:25
khertan(on n900)11:26
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DocScrutinizer51dashavoo: what's broken? LCD only? or also the touchpanel, even the mech parts?11:27
dashavooDocScrutinizer51: LCD. It still responds to touch. At the moment 3/4 of the screen is still visible, but it is gradually becoming less so.11:31
DocScrutinizer51LCD swap is <100EUR11:31
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dashavoothat isn't so bad (compared to the original cost, anyway ;))11:32
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dashavooSometimes I can't believe how much I spent on this phone... no wonder I struggled so much with money that year.11:33
ruskieI saved up for it here11:33
pupnik just mentioned what i wanted in a ncurses media player and one of my maemo friends sent me exactly what i wanted --
pupnikit's close to perfect11:35
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dashavoopupnik: Maemo runs on E71?11:36
pupnikno i'm using the e71 to ssh in to my music player11:36
dashavooaaah, that makes more sense :)11:37
dashavooshame though :P11:37
pupnike71 has the great battery life, so having a ncurses media player on my PC is nice11:37
dashavoopupnik: was that supposed to be a taunt? ;)11:38
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dashavoo< pupnik> e71 has the great battery life11:38
pupnikit has a small screen and a big battery11:38
pupnikand a slow cpu11:38
pupnikit's a good phone.  but it's no n90011:39
pupnikactually a great phone11:39
khertanbut a phone :)11:39
khertanMorning all !11:39
dashavoopupnik: it does sound like it makes a great remote control for your media though... that is something I could do with when I get my screen sorted11:39
dashavoomorning khertan11:40
dashavoo=S I just turned around, and noticed everyone in the office has vanished11:40
dashavooI wish this would stop happening to me!11:40
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achipaX-Fade: is it just me or is hanging ?11:50
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pupnikdashavoo: it's bad when there's a fire alarm and you completely miss it because you're sleeping11:53
pupnikand you walk out and the whole building is watching and the firemen are all mad at you11:53
pupnikthat happened to me twice11:53
dashavoopupnik: haha, brilliant11:53
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alteregoCool, and that maintains history?11:55
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dashavoopupnik: In my first year at university, a fire alarm went off in the night, and I was so disorientated that I couldn't find my clothes (right there on the floor next to my bed)11:56
dashavooI went outside in nothing but a duvet wrapped around me11:56
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achipapupnik: I did have my neighbor come over wake me to be able to tell to turn the bloody alarm clock off... does that count ?11:56
pupniknice stories11:56
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khertanit s funny to use a n810 with maemo 4 after testing meego on a n90012:03
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khertanit s give the feeling of power12:03
khertanspeed ... and stability12:04
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DocScrutinizer51khertan: let's open a club of diablo fans12:16
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khertanDocScrutinizer, :) and larger screen :)12:20
DocScrutinizer51anyway your staement above is well in line with my rant a few days ago that's been like "I prefer stable maemo with some closed blobs over a inmature meego with lots of missing bits every day. And I even prefer m4 UX over m5, for some bits of HD"12:20
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khertanit s more a hw preference for me12:20
khertantwo phisical touch12:21
khertanplus larger screen12:21
khertanhum ... qt4 is old release12:21
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khertanno pyside recent release12:21
lardmanhey khertan do you know of any working Qt Python graphing libs?12:22
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septiqHi is there any DAAP clients on n900 ?12:23
khertanlardman, graphing ? ... like matplot ?12:23
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lardmandoes that now run on the N900?12:25
khertanlardman, ah ... didn't know :)12:25
khertanlet me check12:25
lardmanI did start porting matplot lib iirc, but moved onto other things12:25
lardmandon't worry, I can do the looking, just wondered if you knew of anything off hand12:25
khertanc est meme dans les depots12:25
khertanoups ...12:25
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khertanit s in the repository12:26
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lardmanbien, merci beaucoup12:26
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khertanand it can be installed via easy_install from pypi if gcc is installed on device12:29
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lardmanhmm, does it require gcc?12:30
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dashavooRight, N900 flashed to fresh (ready for repairs)12:37
dashavooDocScrutinizer51: is flashing supposed to reset the lock_code? Because mine _still_ seems uncrackable, and it isn't 12345 after flashing ;)12:38
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robbiethe1stNope, it's not12:38
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dashavoorobbiethe1st: ah, fair enough12:39
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robbiethe1stIf you can get root, though, you should be able to reset it with the appropriate script/program12:40
robbiethe1stGoogle for those instructions, though12:40
dashavoorobbiethe1st: yeah, I was told yesterday about the code_reset program, I was going to try it last night until I broke my screen12:40
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DocScrutinizerdashavoo: no, flashing definitely does NOT reset lock code12:42
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* DocScrutinizer51 still wonders what's the process that checks (and queries) lock code. And where it gets invoked13:01
ruskiecould just be hildon-home or desktop or whatever it is?13:01
DocScrutinizer51probably something much earlier in boot process13:02
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DocScrutinizer51anyway writing a completely new image to mtd1 would reset lock code but also mess up a lot of device specific settings and calibrations13:04
ruskieactually someone already posted on tmo how to reset the code13:04
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ruskieit's in a very specific location13:04
DocScrutinizer51for example ALS calib is in mtd1, for whatever weird reason13:04
DocScrutinizer51ruskie: uhuh, how to reset? pointer?13:05
smharI am trying to install pyqt demo but I got errors that it can not be installed because some packages are missing or something13:05
DocScrutinizer51I'd guess you'd need a basic knowledhe about CAL data structure to do that in a safe way13:06
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DocScrutinizer51I'd change the value 12 'lines' after "lock_code" to default 12345, in mtd113:07
ruskieThe old grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1 still gives 12345 but a 2nd result show up and looks as you said encrypted...13:11
ruskieit's 13 char long so my guess is that it's simple DES.13:12
ruskieIt's also preceded by 7 bytes ... not sure what they are.13:12
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ruskiefrom that thread13:12
ruskiebut the app is there to actually do it for you13:12
DocScrutinizerI thought I was going to spend the rest of my time with the n900 dreading the day I or a friend accidentally hit the secure device button.13:15
DocScrutinizer john ripped through that in no time!13:15
DocScrutinizerwhile we are quoting tmo13:15
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DocScrutinizerruskie: that's what dashavoo and me did yesterday13:15
ruskiewell I'm under no pretences that anything on my N900 is remotely secure13:15
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DocScrutinizerjohn didn't rip thru his DESed code13:16
dashavooMy N900 is super secure ;) (or broken)13:16
DocScrutinizerand I'm really reluctant to use that tool of qwerty12, as it *might* mess up your complete mtd1 CAL partition13:17
DocScrutinizeractually my question was targete at breaking a locked device where you simply can't access mtd1 that easily13:18
ruskieboot through a kernel with an initrd that runs that?13:19
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DocScrutinizeryep, along that line13:19
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* DocScrutinizer pondering to cp -ax / /media/mmc113:21
DocScrutinizerthen patching a few absolute device names and pathes on that copy on uSD, and boot that maemo copy like a meego13:22
DocScrutinizerplus, *of course*, commenting out the lock_code check13:23
DocScrutinizerdamn that'd be cool to have a complete auxiliary maemo to boot from uBoot menu, in case you messed up the original one13:24
DocScrutinizerbootloops? PFFF!13:25
ruskieI'd just want an initfs initramfs13:26
ruskiewith rescue tools13:26
ruskiefrom everything fscking... to reseting lock code13:26
DocScrutinizerdownload it at meego13:26
ruskieI did... then had to patch in a ton of stuff so I could actually use it for that13:26
DocScrutinizerjust fixing the keymapping to have / etc would help a lot for recue-initrd13:27
ruskiethat's easy13:27
* DocScrutinizer is fetching the huge luser-attitude-recalibration-tool to convince ruskie to publish the results of that work13:28
ruskieit was nowhere near anything usable by a normal user13:29
ruskieMeeGo on the other hand has a console keymap provided that can be applied on maemo as well13:30
DocScrutinizerso what? meego rescue-initrd isn't either13:30
DocScrutinizeractually even the link to the download is broken on that webpage about recue-initrd13:31
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oniona bit off-topic, but anyone know what webcasting system was used on this one maemo related page, that included a chat system ? (or can recommend some webcasting service)13:32
DocScrutinizereven just publishing a webpage with a woking dl-link would be an improvement. If that link is to a patched image that has some tools and a working keymap - even better13:32
DocScrutinizerof course a patched maemo system to install to uSD, just same way as a meego, is also quite an appealing idea in my book13:35
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DocScrutinizerI bet you could even use the original meego uBoot config, if you do that right13:38
ruskie <-- DocScrutinizer in case it helps13:39
DocScrutinizerNo, I don't help in that case13:39
ruskiehas the raw files for the initrd and a script that builds it up13:39
ruskieeven has the raw keymap that needs to be procesed through loadkeys13:39
DocScrutinizerso, is that what is finally called "useful by a normal user"?13:40
Lava_Croft'normal users' use N900's?13:40
ruskieDocScrutinizer, it's the initrd from MeeGo sources ;)13:41
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: so, is that what is finally called "usable by a normal user"?13:41
ruskiebut last I tried it it had issues with not running the backlight13:41
ruskieI didn't even know where the sources were before13:42
ruskiejust unpacked the initrd room and repacked it13:43
crashanddie_you packed your room?13:43
ruskienow I might actually be able to make something using this13:43
ruskieerm rom13:43
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DocScrutinizerlet's face it: for the occasional messing with initscripts, rescue-initrd isn't any solution to recover from a bootloop - at lest the way it's shipped now13:48
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ruskiesimply need to start using the initfs13:49
ruskiesupposedly there are what 2MB in there that can be used/abused for this13:50
DocScrutinizerinstalling uBoot and a tiny permanent rescue-system on a partition somewhere on eMMC, easily installable via a .deb, would be way more useful13:50
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DocScrutinizeror on mtd3?/initrd, yes13:50
ruskieuboot is already there13:50
DocScrutinizerI know13:51
DocScrutinizerjust needs a config tweak to boot that rescue system13:51
ruskieand a viable initfs image13:51
DocScrutinizeror whatever13:51
DocScrutinizerdoesn't have to be an initrd13:51
ruskiewell already does uSD13:51
ruskienot sure if it does eMMC but it might13:51
DocScrutinizerafaik MohammadAG does it right now13:52
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dashavooRight - I will leave work early tonight, and drive to the closest Nokia repair place13:54
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Maceris that in case meego gets done? :)14:00
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Macernever know when you need a new lcd14:00
Macerto replace on the n900 that will be stuck in a drawer in a year or so14:01
ruskieI wonder if nokia actively participating on meego will actually produce an actual usable UX or not...14:01
Macerthey stopped participating i thought14:01
Macerand went to winmob14:02
ruskieMacer, nope14:02
ruskiethey are actively working on getting meego officially supported on the N(0014:02
ruskieerm N90014:02
dashavooDocScrutinizer: thanks. Bookmarked ready for when Nokia say get lost14:03
RST38h#define actively14:03
Lava_Croftactive enough?14:03
ruskieCore team being formed in and around Nokia, including current N900 HW adaptation team14:04
ruskieCommunity involvement is very desirable, and there will lots of areas to contribute.14:04
DocScrutinizeryeah, somewhat funny14:05
ruskieI just wish MeeGo actually gets some usability experts and GUI designers... because the current UX is crap for anything other than phone calls14:07
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Lava_Croftthats how useful meego is atm14:07
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DocScrutinizerI wish they invested all those devel manpower into opening up the few missing bits on maemo, rather than rerererereinventing the wheel14:08
Lava_Croftwe all would have liked that better, but such whining is just fuitless14:08
Lava_Croftfruitless, even14:09
dashavooLava_Croft: I think it is both14:09
DocScrutinizermeego is even more fruitless, no wmore than ever14:09
dangergrrlintel will use it14:09
Lava_Croftany open source-ish project will bear some fruit14:09
ruskieI don't consider intel viable for a portable/mobile device14:10
Lava_Croftso meego isnt fruitless14:10
DocScrutinizerso tell me, what is the big advantage of meego over maemo?14:11
ruskieno clue14:11
DocScrutinizermaybe I just forgot about it...14:11
dashavooDocScrutinizer: it is newer, and therefore better14:11
dangergrrlone feature is that it's a joint project and neither side can kill it14:11
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ruskiedangergrrl, considering neither side actually has a stake in it... it's under linux foundation14:11
ruskieboth companies and pick up their toys and go and it'll still exist14:12
DocScrutinizerBS, nobody can kill anything that's open. Or everybody can, by just contributing shit14:12
ruskiewho will use it is another matter14:12
DocScrutinizerLinux is owned by Linus Torvalds alone. VERY DANGEROUS! he can kill it any day he feels like14:13
ruskiewell the trademark is ;014:14
ruskieor so I thought14:14
DocScrutinizer>/sarcasm> - just in case14:14
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: </sarcasm> - just in case14:14
dashavoook, this is distracting me from work too much today, I'd better "ctrl-a d" the screen14:15
ruskie <-- /me finally made his link spaming twitter like thingy...14:15
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DocScrutinizermeego will end like the wankel engine for cars. They thought they can do better than otto engine. In fact otto would have profitted way more if they invested all that R&D into that technology. Hell, some people say otto engine was a mistake and steam engine, when they'd have invested same amount of development into it, would nowadays be way superior to otto engine14:19
Lava_Croftat least meego is not standing on the sideline whining about the others14:22
ruskienah it's  just doing a microsoft and copying from others14:22
DocScrutinizernah, they have enough business whining about state of own project14:22
dangergrrlmicrosoft does not give changes back to the community14:23
ruskiedangergrrl, you misunderstood14:23
ruskiethey are copying the UX ideas from others14:24
ruskiejust like M$ does14:24
Lava_Croftyeah, others don't copy?14:24
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Lava_Crofteverybody copies14:24
DocScrutinizerand they are copying maemo sources, even those that never were disclosed for maemo community14:24
dangergrrlcopying is great if you share your improvements14:24
Lava_Croftwhat's up with a lot of open source-ish people being such complete pussy whiners14:24
Lava_Croftthat sit on #maemo and whine about the others14:24
DocScrutinizernow that's actually a benefit of meego14:24
Lava_Croftwhat good does any of this do14:24
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Lava_Croftbesides generate a shitload of irc logs that are beyond pure sadness14:25
ruskieLava_Croft, it fills the idle time between $random other conversations ;)14:25
Lava_Croftbeing positive about maemo is smarter than being negative about the others14:25
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: I can't see an single improvement in meego so far, that would help any other system to do better14:25
dangergrrli just want to make a decision to mangle with rcS and rcS-late14:25
Lava_Croftit's bad energy, the kind that's usually related to adolescent males14:25
dangergrrlDocScrutinizer: how about that more of the stuff that was closed in maemo is opening up?14:26
SpeedEvildangergrrl: Much of it isn't opening up in a way which would help maemo at all.14:26
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DocScrutinizercoool, I mentioned axactly that just err 2 lines above, dangergrrl14:26
dangergrrlok, i used parted and shrank my vfat on mmcblk0p114:27
SpeedEvilThere are a large number of interconnected daemons in maemo, with no docs. Replacing some of these with incompatible ones that are opensource for meego does little, as the interactions between the daemons are closed.14:27
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dangergrrli copied with cp -a /home to an ext2 on /dev/mmcblk1p114:28
dangergrrlpresumably if i change the device name in rcS and rcS-late i should be able to use mmcblk1 for /home14:28
SpeedEvilI did something different14:29
SpeedEvilI shrunk my mydocs to 4G14:29
SpeedEvilI then added a new partition - ext314:29
SpeedEviland mounted this on /home/user/data14:29
SpeedEvilWorks for me.14:29
DocScrutinizeryou could even loopmount a ext3 fs-image file living on vfat14:30
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dangergrrli already have the cp -a copy14:31
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DocScrutinizerI don't see the purpose14:31
DocScrutinizermaybe you had a typo in some of your prev posts?14:32
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dangergrrli want to boot with all the sw i have installed but /dev/mmcblk0p2 not mounted14:36
DocScrutinizeranyway probably you either want cp -ax or umount /home/user/MyDocs, to/prior copying /home14:36
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dangergrrlMyDocs was easy14:36
dangergrrlumount and parted fixed it14:36
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DocScrutinizeryou will see a massive mess of hidden used blocks on /dev/mmcblk1p1, as soon as maemo is mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 to ~user/MyDocs and thus covering all the content you created there14:40
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DocScrutinizeractually mounting anything to a non-empty mountpoint is one of the more nasty puns of experienced sysadmins14:41
pupniki don't remember what happens then14:42
DocScrutinizerit simply hides away all the prev content of the mountpoint14:42
dangergrrlit didn't like that14:43
DocScrutinizerI used to use this to place some click-me-to-mount.desktop there14:43
dangergrrlprobably should have tested the awk before rebooting14:43
SpeedEvilUnless youhave union mounts14:43
SpeedEvilWhich IIRC are still not in-tree.14:44
dangergrrlit's rebooting over and over14:44
DocScrutinizererr, quite expected result of such enterprises. Sorry dangergrrl, now you're up for a reflash14:45
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DocScrutinizeror you try along the lines of rescue-initrs we talked about 60min ago. And then try to fix the rcS tweaks14:46
MohammadAGwhat's the problem?14:46
DocScrutinizerhe messed around with /home mount in initscripts14:46
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ruskiewell that's why there is atleast one or two guides on doing the repartitioning on tmo/wmo14:47
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MohammadAG/home initscripts, those are on /etc right?14:48
ruskiehell my first week of owning N900 was spent reflashing it and writting together one of those guides...14:48
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ruskieand even then I've gotten bit by things that simply broke on PR1.1 and 1.2... not sure if 1.3 as well...14:49
dangergrrli changed /usr/lib/genfstab.awk14:49
DocScrutinizeryeah, an auxiliary rescue system would come handy in such situations ;-D14:49
dangergrrloh and i know what i did wrong14:49
ruskieI just removed the call to genfstab ;)14:49
ruskiesince that fstab actually won't be used at all14:49
dangergrrli forgot to delete an argument14:49
ruskieit's just there to look nice14:49
ruskieI actually have a usable fstab that actually gets used ;)14:50
DocScrutinizergenfstab is mostly irrelevant, as the actual mount is unrelated to fstab14:50
ruskieneed to hack the scripts and get them into cssu so that fstab is actually used and we can drop genfstab14:50
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DocScrutinizernow that'd be an appreciated sanitizing of some nasty annoying maemo quirk14:51
DocScrutinizernever got it what all this weird fstab crippling in maemo init was all about14:51
MohammadAGmeego's awesome14:51
MohammadAGit can mount ubifs14:52
dangergrrlwell, i saw a mount in /etc/init.d/rcS14:52
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ruskieI had to roll my own busybox with ubifs support to actually be able to rescue using it14:52
dangergrrlchanged that one and stuff broke a little but it still mounted /dev/mmcblk0s2 /home14:52
MohammadAGyes, used it once14:53
MohammadAGand really, if someone could build the meego rescue kernel with ubifs support, that'd be awesome14:53
ruskieMohammadAG, actually ubifs support is there14:54
ruskiejust the userspace stuff was/is absent14:54
MohammadAGit's a kernel issue14:54
MohammadAGprobably missing module14:54
ruskieI managed to access ubifs from meego running on an SD card14:54
ruskieafter adding busybox with ubifs support to it14:54
MohammadAGmeego uses coreutils iirc14:55
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E0xhave to , because is not meego intent to get more close to a normal linux distro or something like that14:56
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: actually that mount in rcS is the relevant thing. Nasty part: just about any typo in rcS will cause a bootloop14:56
E0xmorning btw14:56
DocScrutinizer*burp* err busybox... MEH14:57
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MohammadAGyeah, meego uses coreutils and bash14:57
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infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils14:58
pupnikwhy does 'screen' mangle the ncurses graphics chars14:58
DocScrutinizerdoes it?14:58
pupnikdoes for me - maybe some terminfo / termcap mongling14:59
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DocScrutinizeranyway, good luck to Austin TX / Round Rock15:06
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕15:07
dangergrrllost my reading glasses and it wants an IMEI15:08
dangergrrlit needs flashing15:09
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khertan"dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei"15:09
khertanin xterm and zoom the key size15:10
dangergrrlno, it won't boot, it is bricked15:10
ruskiein other words the fonts on the device are to small15:10
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ruskiedangergrrl, still have the box?15:10
ruskiethat has a larger IMEI sticker iirc15:10
ruskiehmm iirc it actually has 3... though one tends to be taken by the shop iirc...15:12
DocScrutinizer[A] [B] and [C]15:15
MohammadAGwould be awesome if flasher could querry imei15:15
ruskiemy mom loves throwing away empty boxes... so I need to be rather specific why things don't get thrown out...15:15
ruskieMohammadAG, hmm did anyone check if the usb serial might be set to the imei?15:16
dangergrrli presume i don't need the global image :)15:16
MohammadAGglobal ftw15:17
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ruskieglobal is the best15:17
MohammadAGi still have my 6680's box15:17
MohammadAGand my N-Gage QD's box15:18
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: use the global. US image is known to act up sometimes for GSM cmt firmware15:19
dangergrrlthx for the box tip, i can barely read it too but at least i didn't have to run to the store to replace crappy reading glasses15:20
DocScrutinizermy boxes rarely are empty. I always use them to store things like user manuals, recipes, spare parts...15:21
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: why didn't you just copy&paste the one I sent to you?15:21
dangergrrli didn't notice, was too busy trying to read that tiny print15:22
dangergrrlthey don't make these things for the over 40 crowd :)15:22
dangergrrlwhen you need a firmware image may be a bad time to ask for that15:23
dangergrrlnow i'll have a spare copy :)15:23
MohammadAGmacro cameras ftw for magnification15:23
DocScrutinizerI got pretty good eyesight but have a mag glass now here on my desk, as sometimes those 0402 components are hard to even see15:23
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DocScrutinizer~25.4 * 0.0415:24
DocScrutinizerI'm honestly getting too old to solder those15:26
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dangergrrlif i could get a shell i know what i did wrong15:26
dangergrrlbut i crashed the boot oh well15:26
RST38hDoc: or parts are getting smaller...15:27
DocScrutinizer0402 always been 0402 ;-)15:27
DocScrutinizerjust 15 years ago there's been no 0402 probably15:27
pupnikhmm dec vt-420 terminals are on ebay still15:27
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pupnikwould be pretty righteous to play roguelikes on15:29
DocScrutinizerplay what?15:29
dangergrrli still remember the lab full of vt05's we had in high school15:30
pupniki had a vt100 once... called it the "bat-terminal"15:31
DocScrutinizerdoh, you had nice schools there15:31
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dangergrrlit was a top notch program for 198015:31
dangergrrlwe had a pdp 11/34a15:31
pupnikwe had donated PETs15:31
DocScrutinizerthose were fugly15:32
pupnikwell, it was an elementary school15:32
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dangergrrland i got to skip class in the principal's office cause i debugged his boot rom on his s-100 for him :)15:32
pupniki got to skip class to play on the pets too15:32
pupnikok that's cool15:33
dangergrrlthey didn't give the fdc long enough to settle after init15:33
khertancron is present on maemo by default ?15:33
pupnikwas that some cp/m box?15:33
dangergrrlyes, cp/m15:33
dangergrrlTEI i think that one was15:33
dangergrrl8" floppy15:34
khertanDocScrutinizer, So to do thing at regular interval a daemon running all time is the way to do ?15:34
DocScrutinizerkhertan: alarmed, or fcron. not by default though. alarmd is the system you should use15:34
khertanalarmd burrk ... not really multi plateform !15:34
dangergrrldamn and all i really wanted was to stream pulseaudio from my pc15:35
DocScrutinizernot really15:35
dangergrrloh wait15:35
dangergrrli have a full backup15:35
dangergrrlalmost full15:35
DocScrutinizer\o/ first usecase ever to justify this pulseaudio abomination on N90015:35
pupnikwhy stream the raw pcm when you can stream the mp3/ogg/flac via network share / sshfs whatever15:36
ruskieI just use icecast to stream music to it ;)15:36
dangergrrlwell the headset is designed not to work as a stereo headset if you plug it into the pc15:36
ruskieover wifi15:36
chem|stdangergrrl: that I tried a few month ago15:36
dangergrrlthe pair of headphones i have for the pc is crap15:36
ruskieahh I don't use headphones...15:37
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dangergrrlso i want to watch a video with vlc and stream the audio to n90015:37
dangergrrlshould be easy15:37
dangergrrlexcept /home was full15:37
ruskieassuming PA on the n900 is non-crippled15:37
robbiethe1stI think latency's your big issue15:37
ruskieiirc it is in some way or another15:38
DocScrutinizerI just wonder if the video is so much fun via VLC15:38
dangergrrlbad news is i do lose the contents of /MyDocs15:38
chem|stdangergrrl: and you will have a slight offset with doing this I guess15:38
DocScrutinizererr, sorry15:38
DocScrutinizerVLC != VNC15:38
robbiethe1stchem|st: VLC can adjust it. I'm just worried about varying latency due to network lag(etc) than anything else..15:38
dangergrrlshouldn't be much, the audio goes through pulseaudio anyhow15:38
chem|strobbiethe1st: that is what I mean...15:39
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: actually you should have a full copy on mmcblk1p1 if you did a cp -a15:39
chem|stany descent player can adjust audio video offset15:39
dangergrrlcp -a -x -f actually15:39
chem|stbut wifi-lag is15:39
DocScrutinizeraaaah -x15:39
nidOor the easy way, just play the video on the pc and n900 over upnp at the same time, unless I missed something?15:39
dangergrrlbut i don't have to reinstall all my packages at least15:40
robbiethe1stAanyway, I'll let you two work it out; cya tomorrow.15:40
chem|stand pulse' multicast streaming does no good at my wifi setup at home15:40
robbiethe1stdangergrrl: If you're talking about a full backup... that15:40
robbiethe1stThat's why I created backupmenu. ;)15:40
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dangergrrli just did things the usual unix way :)15:41
DocScrutinizerI recommend that15:41
dangergrrland shot myself in the foot15:41
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: actually that's not the unix way. You never create a backup of a mounted fs15:41
DocScrutinizerbackupmenu is taking care about that15:42
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robbiethe1stAnyway, good luck.15:42
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: restoring to a mounted fs is even harder, backupmenu is supposed to handle that as well15:45
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: basically backupmenu is the luser's init s15:45
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DocScrutinizer(where on maemo everybody's a luser ;-P )15:50
khertantransferring a Virtual HD image is painfull (vdi of 160Go)15:50
ZogGkhertan, hey15:51
khertanhey ZogG15:51
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DocScrutinizerhey heys15:51
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khertan(specially when you think ... hey now problem i ll copy it on fat hd ... .... fail) ...15:51
ZogGkhertan, if i have MainWindow class in main.cpp for example15:52
ZogGandi have simple functions15:52
ruskiekhertan, well fat is what 4gb limit... isn't it?15:52
DocScrutinizerkhertan: that's what dd is made for :-D15:52
khertanruskie, maybe a bit more ... but sure there is a limit15:53
DocScrutinizerruskie: fat has no *nix perms15:53
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khertanDocScrutinizer, i'm not sur that using firewire is made for transfering large file over firewire ethernet :)15:53
ZogGruskie, 4 Gibs indeed15:53
khertana small harddrive is probably better for that15:54
ZogGand i want to call MainWindow class function from regular function, how do i do it?15:54
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khertanm = new MainWindow()15:55
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khertanbut i far to be a cpp expert :)15:55
MohammadAGthat's another instance of MainWindow15:55
DocScrutinizerthat's the only instance of mainwin15:55
khertanbut to call something on instance ... you need to have an instance15:56
MohammadAGI wouldn't want MainWindow -> some child window -> MainWindow again15:56
DocScrutinizerthere has to be an instance of mainwin or there'll be no mainwin15:56
MohammadAGthat's creating another instance of it15:56
khertanBut if mainwin is a child of mainwin ... why it s called mainwin ?15:57
ZogGyou giot me confused and you misunderstood me15:57
* khertan is lost too15:57
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MohammadAGI'm guessing ZogG has a child window15:58
MohammadAGand wants to call a function in the parent MainWindow15:59
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DocScrutinizerZogG: if we misunderstood you, don't you think that's somehow related to the fact you spread your question across 3 fuzzy posts a few minutes apart from each other?15:59
ZogGMohammadAG nope15:59
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ZogGi have mainwindow class16:00
khertanMohammadAG, you are lost too ... failed everyone :)16:00
ZogGand functions like MainWindow::do_that ()16:00
ZogGbut i have dothat_too()16:00
ZogGand as i try to call MainWindow::do that () from do_that_too() it fails16:01
DocScrutinizerwhere's dothat_too() ?16:01
MohammadAGwhat fails16:01
MohammadAGI mean, how does it fail16:01
DocScrutinizerunknown function16:01
MohammadAGdefined in .h?16:01
ZogGor i want to do ui->soomething->somethin() from void my_own_func_with_no_class() i fail16:02
khertanZogG, maybe pastbinning source code will be easier to understand :)16:02
DocScrutinizerZogG: your question is rather fuzzy. I suggest pastebinit16:02
divanMohammadAG, how the file /home/user/.config/menus/ is created? Does it belongs to some package or created in postinstall scripts?16:02
ZogGMohammadAG nope it's inside mainwindow.cpp16:02
MohammadAGZogG, put the name of the function under private: in the .h file of mainwindow16:03
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divanMohammadAG, I can't see it in 'dpkg -L hildon-desktop' list.16:03
MohammadAGit's created in real time16:03
divanAh, clear16:03
ZogGMohammadAG but that it would be MainWindow::my_func() but not my_func()16:03
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MohammadAGthis isn't C16:04
ZogGkhertan, DocScrutinizer, i think MohammadAG won =)16:04
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ZogGMohammadAG i do use C =)16:04
BCMMdotHat? ̂.16:04
DocScrutinizerZogG: one thing's for sure: you lose16:04
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DocScrutinizerZogG: google namespace16:05
ZogGDocScrutinizer, if you love me that much, i suggest just telling me and not playing 5th grade games =)16:05
DocScrutinizerZogG: google visibility16:05
khertanPython ... Python ... Python ... Python ... Python ... Python ....16:05
MohammadAGkhertan, you might enjoy C16:06
ZogGkhertan, i want to obtain C power16:06
BCMMyou must kill a C programmer.16:06
BCMMor something16:06
BCMMalso i think there's a book16:06
ZogGBCMM, cut his head?16:06
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khertanMohammadAG, in fact i use the last three week to made a c plugin for 4D to add python language to 4D :)16:06
ZogGand eat his heart16:06
BCMMthat's it, yeah16:06
BCMMthat or read k&r is what i heard16:06
DocScrutinizerZogG: I'm just not contributing on your 1st grade hoac games. I clearly asked "where's dothat_too() ?" and I suggested pastebinit16:06
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ZogGBCMM, k&r?16:07
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khertanMohammadAG, but if i can avoid using c ... i' avoid using it ...16:07
MohammadAGC pwns python, admit it :P16:08
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DocScrutinizerkernigan and ritchie, aka K&R16:08
MohammadAGtakes a lot more time to program in too16:08
khertanMohammadAG, depends of context16:09
ZogGfor example i want to set label ui->song_info->setText("connected"); from void connect_xmms()16:09
ZogGDocScrutinizer, ^16:09
MohammadAGGUIs, stuff for a 600MHz device :P16:10
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khertanMohammadAG, in term of pure perf ... no comparaison ...16:10
ZogGassembler FTW16:10
BCMMZogG: "The C Programming Language" by Kerningham and Ritchie, aka k&r or "The White Bible"16:10
ZogGBCMM thanks16:10
ZogGgoing to download it16:10
khertanMohammadAG, but a well done algo code with python will always be faster than a poor one done inc16:11
khertans/inc/in c16:11
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BCMMZogG: the first edition was actually the de-facto spec for the language16:11
MohammadAGkhertan, for a GUI? doubtful16:11
ZogGBCMM, which one (edition) should i get?16:11
MohammadAGit'll just segfault in C16:12
BCMMZogG: the second edition16:12
khertanMohammadAG, a good py programmer most of the time use libs (which are coded in c)16:12
ZogGBCMM, ok, thanks16:12
DocScrutinizerkhertan: definitely not, I offer a bet where poor c code beats good py code16:12
khertanDocScrutinizer, i didn't say poor code ... but poor algo16:12
* RST38h wonders why a good py programmer is not using C to begin with16:12
BCMMZogG: teh first edition came before standardisation, and actually got used like a standard by compiler devs and so on. the second edition is written for ANSI C16:12
ZogGi can make a poor C.... oooops, no i even can't do that =(16:12
DocScrutinizerkhertan: that's what I meant16:12
RST38hDoc: You can easily do worse than py by writing bad C code16:13
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ZogGRST38h, but how you got it that if you bad in C you would be good in python =)16:13
BCMMit's almost hilarious how influential that book is...16:13
ZogGRST38h, and you are russian, noone cares what you think16:13
khertanMohammadAG, take a look at and say me how many time it takes to you to write similar things in c16:13
DocScrutinizerI bet I can beat a carefully selected advanced sort algo in python by carefully written simple bubblesort in C16:13
BCMMfor example, if you don't use K&r's brace style, they won't accept your driver into the mainstream linux kernel :)16:14
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MohammadAGkhertan, I already said writing stuff in C takes more time16:14
MohammadAGbut if done properly, C kicks Python's ass :p16:14
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khertanMohammadAG, no no seriously ... i didn't want to defy or something els16:14
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khertanthis is just to have a estimation ... as i ll probably rewrite that in c :)16:15
RST38hDoc: ah, you can really screw up the bubble sort16:15
RST38hDoc: but I am sure an averag C bubble sort implementation will run circles around python16:15
BCMMtbh, it's probably just another example of the general pattern of things that could be done by human or by computer16:15
BCMMa good human > a computer > a bad human16:15
BCMM(see also autopilots and automatic transmissions)16:16
khertanan evil > a good human > a computer > a idiot16:16
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khertanBCMM, see metro in paris ... line 14 ... automatic ... no problem ... no late .... always working ... no strike16:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer: however, one could provide a data set where bubble sort is ages slower than the "advanced sorting algorithm" implemented even in the slowest language of the world.16:17
khertanand the human drived line.... hum ...16:17
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yes, I forgot to mention I'm selecting the sort data16:17
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BCMMone could provide a dataset to suite almost any sorting algorithm16:18
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khertanfilezilla version in debian stable is far to be stable16:18
dangergrrlwell, it's not bricked16:19
dangergrrlbut i get to reinstall all the apps anyhow16:19
DocScrutinizerwell, let's make this a bit more precise: sort data is dd if=/dev/random of=mysortdata bs=5k count=116:19
RST38hmoo javispedro16:19
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* RST38h laughs satanically16:20
DocScrutinizerI still keep that bet, given we agree on what's the class of "advanced sort algorithms" I will choose one to implement in python16:20
javispedromake that count=2000 or something like that and were talking ;)16:21
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javispedroyou should all get into that tmo thread where someone is trying to explain to us the benefits of the java vm16:22
khertanjavispedro, hihi could be fun16:23
khertanfilezilla is a ....16:23
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DocScrutinizerkhertan: line U3 subway in Nuernberg :-D16:24
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DocScrutinizerkhertan: you noticed my stories about SIPEM in Duesseldorf and Dortmund?16:25
MohammadAGnothing better than the local city train station16:26
MohammadAGit's like Duke Nuken Forever16:26
DocScrutinizerRST38h: (more pleasure) actually I hate python more and more, since I noticed wiki pages are silently dropping format like leading whitespace and tab16:27
DocScrutinizerhell, even COBOL removed the format restrictions somewhere around COBOL78 or whatever the version was16:28
* DocScrutinizer suggests we move from python to all WHITESPACE16:29
DocScrutinizeran awesome language16:29
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dangergrrleverytime someone mentions the whitespace thing i hope they are really talking about fortran-iv16:29
DocScrutinizerand for sure more fun to code in than python16:29
BCMMF90 FTW!16:30
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khertanDocScrutinizer, nope16:33
ZogGhow about C# and C++?16:33
ZogGand ruby?16:33
DocScrutinizerhow about objective-C16:33
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khertanHow about Goto++16:34
DocScrutinizerand brainfuck?16:34
DocScrutinizeror LOLCODE16:34
SpeedEvilPiet is cool!16:34
MohammadAGCAN HAZ Qt?16:35
SpeedEvil outputs pi - for example16:35
SpeedEvilYou make it more precise by making the circle larger16:35
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khertanGoTo++ i like the GOTOGOTORANDOM() 80;LabelName16:38
khertan80% chance to jump to label ... else ... it s fall somewhere else in the code16:38
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sandst1Wow, there's a brainfuck interpreter for Piet x)16:40
khertanpffff ... zipping a 160Gb file and splitting it into chunk of 4Gb is really slow16:41
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E0xsomebody in tmo ask/talk about use the n900 for light meter or something16:43
E0xcould this posible ?16:43
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E0xi was thinking in something like that for autoadjust the expose in the camera app16:44
E0xin a better way16:44
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: nice16:46
DocScrutinizerI wonder...16:46
DocScrutinizerseen dangermouse16:46
DocScrutinizer~seen dangermouse16:46
infobotdangermouse <n=dmouse@> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 731d 1h 13m 20s ago, saying: 'Can get on with my buffer overflow coursework now \o/'.16:46
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DocScrutinizer~seen dangermaus16:47
infobotdangermaus <638d3d82@tuxhacker/loft306> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 2h 28m 29s ago, saying: 'k thnx'.16:47
dangergrrlwell, if anyone wants help bricking their n900, just ask me, i'm a pro at it :)16:48
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javispedroactually, ask me. it's been a while since I last used my precious hammer...16:49
DocScrutinizerE0x: there's luxmeter app16:50
DocScrutinizerE0x: but that's silly for camera - except if we're talking about frontcam16:50
dangergrrli doubt the frontcam has the sensitivity to be good for that16:51
dangergrrlcould be wrong though16:51
dangergrrli did break mine today :)16:52
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DocScrutinizerthe frontcam is pointing in same direction as ALS. So it's the only cam on N900 that can use ALS for "autoadjust the expose in the camera app"16:52
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DocScrutinizerhow did you break your frontcam? :-o16:53
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dangergrrljust the whole n90016:53
dangergrrli have to reinstall all my apps anyhow so i plan on finishing the technique i was trying16:53
DocScrutinizermeh, you just fsckdup your initscripts :-D16:53
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DocScrutinizerthat doesn't count16:54
dangergrrlwith no text mode console that's bad enough16:54
dangergrrlok, so it was easily fixed16:54
dangergrrlother than hours to come with application manager16:55
DocScrutinizerme suggests installing backupmenu, it has USB console as well16:55
dangergrrlthat would have helped :)16:55
dangergrrli'll get that16:55
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DocScrutinizerappmanager hassle can easily be done via backup APP (not menu this time)16:55
dangergrrlright now i need x terminal gainroot and ssh16:55
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GAN900Should I upgrade to the CSSU yet?16:56
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: works great here16:56
DocScrutinizerGAN900: just beware of MHD remnants on your system :-P16:56
lardmanhmm, /me sees useful things like json module in Python 2.7 and wonders if there's a newer version for the N900?16:56
lardmanGAN900: yeah, works here too, I've not noticed any problems (nor indeed any changes)16:57
DocScrutinizerlardman: changes are marginal, when comparing to a massively tweaked system like JR-PR1.2 ;-)16:59
lardmanI guess there's a changelog on the wiki page, I should take a look at it16:59
DocScrutinizerI guess JR-PR1.2 >> PR1.3 basic16:59
lardmanwhat is JR?17:00
DocScrutinizerso now after upgrade to PR1.3 and switching&fixing to CSSU my system feels like a week ago, except for fixed SIP17:00
DocScrutinizerlardman: my initials ;-D17:01
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DocScrutinizeror simply plus a few ""secret"" things17:02
GAN900lardman, Honeycomb sucks significantly less acutely than 2.x17:02
lardmanwhoa, topic change there ;)17:02
RST38hGAN: How exactly? =)17:03
RST38hheya lardman17:03
lardmanGAN900: well I don't really want to write Java code, though it would be nice to have Honeycomb on the Tab eventually17:03
lardmanhi RST38h17:03
GAN900RST38h, I think it's largely down to being generic and not including B&N's BS.17:03
javispedroDO NOT TALK ME ABOUT JAVA!17:03
GAN900Permanent on-screen keys in the status area help.17:03
RST38hGAN: Ah you mean a particular android device17:04
khertanJR-PR1.2 ?17:04
khertanwhat that ?17:04
GAN900lardman, I want MeeGo, but given that there's no useful Tablet UX. ;)17:04
GAN900RST38h, yes.17:04
GAN900RST38h, Nook Color17:04
khertanJohn Rampage Pirate Release 1.2 ?17:04
lardmanGAN900: yeah I know, and worst of all no repo afaict17:04
GAN900khertan, DocScrutinizer's customized install.17:04
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* javispedro still does not understand why everyone wants a nook color17:05
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RST38hjavispedro: not everyone17:07
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RST38hjavispedro: but it is pretty cheap, so that may be the reason17:07
GAN900javispedro, cheap for what you get?17:08
nidOwell, what you get is a presumably shitty e-reader but a dirt cheap android tablet17:08
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sandst1get a bebook, there's a real e-reader with qt support out of the box :P17:10
khertanouch All for $24917:10
khertanit far from being cheap17:11
ZogGjavispedro agreed17:11
nidOkhertan: you dont get many android tablets at that price17:11
ZogGso stupid to buy ebook that is not ebook at all17:11
javispedroI also do not see it cheap, but I guess it compares nice to the ripoffs from the larger "tablet" manufactures17:11
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ZogGthat way i can buy pad or read from laptop17:11
DocScrutinizerit's soooo *cheap*17:12
GAN900khertan, got it for $200.17:12
GAN900Nice hardware.17:12
DocScrutinizerso tinny17:12
ZogGi bouth sony prs 65017:12
GAN900OMAP3621, 512MB RAM, IPS.17:12
ZogGhappy eith it17:12
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GAN900My endgame is MeeGo.17:13
khertanoh ... didn't see the right specs17:13
khertanr> so tinny17:13
khertan<ZogG> i bouth sony prs 65017:13
khertan<GAN900> OMAP3621, 512MB RAM,17:13
khertannot so bad !17:13
* DocScrutinizer wants a N9000 with 1GHz, 1GB RAM, and HD-HDMI out, plus a pair of sunglasses with micro laser video mirrored in17:14
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ZogGkhertan ?17:15
ZogGDocScrutinizer, it sucks NOver9000 is way better17:15
khertanZogG, sorry copy paste error :)17:16
DocScrutinizerRST38h: any chances you eventually augment xchat? A few features missing17:17
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ZogGkhertan, okay, but it's last time it happens17:17
RST38hDoc: Once I become jobless and won't have anything else to do :)17:17
ZogGRST38h, where do you work?17:17
DocScrutinizerRST38h: so I hope somebody else has to do that17:18
RST38hDoc: Once someone wants it badly enough, he/she will do it :)17:18
DocScrutinizersure sure17:18
ZogGDocScrutinizer do what?17:18
RST38hDoc: Last changes were done by MohammadAG who finally made the notification icons work17:18
DocScrutinizerfix/add a few things for xchat17:19
DocScrutinizerwhat f'ing notification icons?17:19
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ZogGxchat works fine for me17:19
RST38hDoc: Also depends on how difficult those things are to add17:20
DocScrutinizerZogG: still a better nick completion, a smarter one, couldn't hurt for example17:20
ZogGwhat si wrong with one built in?17:20
RST38hNick completionyou can perfectly well add by yourself, except that your standards of "smarter" may not necessarily match what others think17:20
DocScrutinizerRST38h: dirt cheap one: when pressing nickcompletion at an empty lijne, use last used nick17:20
RST38hDoc: Aha17:21
RST38hWhy not press the UP button though?17:21
keriois it really helpful?17:21
lolcatMy phone won't charge, any solutions?17:21
kerioRST38h: because pressing up gives you the whole message17:21
RST38hah ok17:21
DocScrutinizerRST38h: because the (shift)up is fetching the whole last line, and deleting my long posts to get same nick again is way more work than retyping the first 3 letters17:22
ZogGDocScrutinizer, gui_ulist_doubleclickCommand to run upon double click of user in userlist.17:22
DocScrutinizerI fsckng got no crappy userlist17:22
RST38hDoc: Ok, I have got the overall idea. Will look at it, and add it if it is easy17:23
DocScrutinizerRST38h: cool17:23
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lardmanurgh, anyone know about JSON?17:23
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RST38hJSON is the new XML17:24
RST38hanything else you wanna know? :)17:24
lardmanno, that's all good ;)17:24
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lardmanactually I think I've worked it out, was wondering what the root object is called17:24
DocScrutinizerRST38h: while you're at it - maybe shorting the window title so the meaningless "nick @ server" gets dropped and you actually could read the more interesting bits at end that never appeared here as they are truncated17:24
DocScrutinizer(yeah I know my nick is too long ;-P)17:26
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RST38hDoc: yea, that one is doable17:26
RST38h"Utah To Teach USA is a Republic, Not a Democracy"17:27
DocScrutinizercurrently I got "XChat: docscrutinizer51 @ ZNC / #"17:27
GAN900RST38h, can you add FBReader syncing to you jobless list, too?17:27
DocScrutinizernone of that is of any particular nterest to me17:27
DocScrutinizeras I know it's xchat and I know and even see my nick17:28
RST38hGAN: There is a guy, named Rob1n, who is doing pretty well on maintaining FBReader17:29
lardmanquite nice of die Polizei to release crime stats with a JSON interface for us to browse17:29
DocScrutinizerI for the life of me I couldn't figure what's that # meaning, sometimes it's there sometimes not17:29
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DocScrutinizerand the / prolly is mere cruft17:30
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: if you could build a .deb with python plugin enabled and host it at <random-site> I'd be even double-happy17:36
RST38hDoc: Forget Python17:37
RST38hDoc: Once I enable Python it starts cursing about Python not installed17:37
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I know about dependency PITA with normal repo17:37
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DocScrutinizerthat'S why I ask for a .deb >somewhere>, not a pkg in -devel17:37
DocScrutinizereven a mere binary would do17:38
RST38hJust compile it yourself, the sources are in the repo17:38
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DocScrutinizeryeah, but that means I need to setup and get used to that yuck SB17:39
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DocScrutinizerI touched that thing last time some ~10 moths ago17:40
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DocScrutinizerand that took me like two days to get everything running17:40
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DocScrutinizer"small" root here, only some 25GB17:41
DocScrutinizerso I probably would want to buy a new laptop, to make SB run smoothly17:42
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DocScrutinizeror install the whole crap on a Vhost, under centos :-o17:43
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DocScrutinizereven there the storage is 'only' some 30GB right now17:44
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DocScrutinizeraaah, ok, at least the net and server are alive18:47
* MohammadAG looks at tumble weeds18:48
* DocScrutinizer gathers everybody's curing their hangover from yesterday rednose madness18:50
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GAN900Man, that scared me.19:01
GAN900 /sonic boom19:01
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lardmanGAN900: just watched that online19:06
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GAN900Shook the windows19:06
lardmanwell that particular vehicle won't be doing that again19:06
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lardmanthere really is a lot of faffing about after a shuttle landing19:11
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TsuyoHey, any idea to connect Ovi Store and FapMan? Or .. an alternative than the n900 package manager?19:19
TsuyoIt's slow as hell. And i want to install more apps19:19
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lolcatTsuyo: apt-get install?19:22
TsuyoI added the repository Ovi Store fremantle 1.2, but how can i identify me as an customer?19:23
TsuyoI mean, if i buy apps, i can download them. How can i do that via apt-get?19:23
TsuyoI don't see the apps anyway.19:24
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GAN900lardman, good riddance. Way too expensive for what you get. Too bad the money's gonna go to bribing votes out of old people instead of actual productive things.19:25
lolcatOvi Store is crap19:25
lardmanGAN900: but pretty cool engineering19:26
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Lava_CroftTsuyo: I dont think Ovi will work with fapman19:26
lardmanconsidering it was deisgned and built in the 70s19:26
slonopotamusTsuyo: you really think that in nokia world you get any usability if you pay?19:26
Tsuyo^^. That was just an example. I haven't bought anything.19:26
TsuyoI mean, except the N900.19:26
slonopotamusno, man, it's all other way round. when ovi just opened, it was easier to get apps if you _didn't_ pay19:26
GAN900Yeah, for the 80s.19:27
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GAN900Interesting to see where the private companies go.19:27
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* lardman heads home19:30
lardmancu later GAN90019:30
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tghm interesting, i disabled the lock code on my n900 some time back, but now after finishing a call it got locked and asks for a lock code, maybe the previous code i configured long time ago that i disabled and dont remember anymore?19:32
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tgso what are the options for disabling/bypassing/resetting that code?19:33
tgpreferably without reflashing the whole thing19:33
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SpeedEviltg: 12345?19:38
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SpeedEvilIf it was as default19:38
tgdoesnt work..19:38
tgi already tried that19:38
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tgthe problem is that it's still locked after reboot19:40
tgand doesnt ask for my sim pin code but this lock code instead19:40
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tgis there a recovery console or similar where i can access the device?19:41
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tgso is there a recovery console or similar where i can access the rootfs?19:46
tgi already asked that :)19:46
SpeedEvilI'm unsureif meego respects the CAL eprom.19:47
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DocScrutinizer51there is no way to "disable lockcode". You can disable the automatic locking, but you always can lock it via powerbutton menu19:56
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slonopotamusdefinitely there is, just install os that doesn't care of it19:57
DocScrutinizer51and only chance you got to unlock a locked device is to get access either via ssh or via meego / rescue-initrd and do the john19:58
tgwell it's enough to disable autolock for now19:58
lolcatWhat is the lock code?19:58
tgi've just read somewhere that reflashing disables autolock19:58
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slonopotamuslolcat: some marketing crap that leads into cases when user can't use his own device19:58
DocScrutinizer51hmm I honestly doubt that19:59
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DocScrutinizer51that would render whole lockcode void19:59
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lolcatI want to lock my phone so my friends can't mess with my phone while drunk!20:00
lolcatIf it would only charge...20:00
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DocScrutinizer51you can reset lockcode with special flasher tools that access CAL partition directly20:00
lolcatCan I do that without the phone charging? Can it be a broken battery?20:01
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kwtmHi, fellow marooned N900 passengers on the sinking ship of Nokia.20:03
DocScrutinizer51tg: you need access to device and reset or decode the lockcode20:03
lolcatWhat is the best worst thing I can to to fix it?20:03
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer51: btw, are there vanilla CAL images available?20:03
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kwtmIs there a reason I don't see "bc" in the available packages to install after having recently updated repositories (yesterday) to include extras.*?20:03
DocScrutinizer51slonopotamus: not possible20:04
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer51: why?20:04
DocScrutinizer51CAL has CALibration data, for ALS, MAC, Ser#...20:04
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tgDocScrutinizer51: yes i need access, should i try with this flasher 3.5 or is there a better tool?20:05
DocScrutinizer51what would you do with flasher3.5?20:05
DocScrutinizer51afaik you need rescue-initrd which starts via flasher20:06
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tgyes that's what i'd try20:07
kwtmI may have found the problem: enabling repositories in "Faster Application Manager" doesn't "really" enable them; it looks like it will work when I enable them in the official app manager.20:07
DocScrutinizer51don't think meego or anything else alternative way to access CAL partition will work/install on a locked device20:08
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DocScrutinizer51fapman is known botch20:09
merlin1991fapman is a bitch20:09
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DocScrutinizer51tg: use the grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail 1 method to get the lockcode hash, in rescue-initrd20:12
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tgi found something like that too20:12
tgand how to disable autolock?20:13
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tgiirc there was a file on the rootfs that i have to remove?20:13
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DocScrutinizer51tg: why would you want to bother with files to disable autolock?20:14
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DocScrutinizer51you need ubifs support in rescue-initrd to access rootfs20:14
MohammadAGif only Nokia opened up some apps on maemo20:14
E0xstill with the lock code things :P20:14
E0xMohammadAG: or all20:14
MohammadAGhow hard would have been to do this...20:14
MohammadAG    if (QSettings().value("main/onApplicationExit").toString() == "stop-playback")20:15
MohammadAG        mafwrenderer->stop();20:15
tgDocScrutinizer51: oh i see, i thought that'd be simpler20:15
DocScrutinizer51tg: get hash from mtd1, decrypt it with john on your PC, unlock device and boot, profit20:16
DocScrutinizer51then you can adjust whatever you want20:16
MohammadAGI don't think mtd1 is mtd1 on new kernels20:16
MohammadAGI could be wrong, but isn't it mtdblock1?20:17
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MohammadAGwell, mt*120:18
DocScrutinizer51I'd hope tg will find out, once he managed to actually *use* rescue-initrd with that fsckdup keymap20:19
* tg reading the wiki :)20:20
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MohammadAGzerojay, ping20:21
MohammadAGhmm, which has the correct keymap in framebuffer, meego or the initrd image?20:21
DocScrutinizerinitrd has no /20:22
MohammadAGI found a trick for that20:22
DocScrutinizerand afaik no bluekeys at all20:22
MohammadAGcd .., keep doing that till you get to /20:22
MohammadAGthen use CTRL+I as tab20:23
MohammadAGworks nicely :P20:23
MohammadAGand... nicolai pushed his cmaera-ui clone20:23
DocScrutinizerdidn't occur to me20:23
MohammadAGthat guy's awesome :D20:24
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MohammadAGhmm, a binary only, oh well20:24
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RST38hHP is planning to put WebOS onto every PC it sells in 2012 in an attempt to attract developers to the platform20:38
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (trick) you checked if initrd actually accepts ctrl+key?20:39
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yeah20:39
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, all shells do20:39
MohammadAGwell, all the ones I've used anyway20:39
DocScrutinizermeh, not all kbd driver take modifier keys though20:40
MohammadAGRST38h, I think I'll start looking at Dells now20:40
DocScrutinizerafaik rescue-initrd takes neither blue nor ctrl or shift20:41
MohammadAGnah, CTRL works20:41
MohammadAGit's a started key20:41
MohammadAGso is shift I think20:41
DocScrutinizerthat's why I asked "did you check with *rescue-initrd*?"20:41
MohammadAGblue, yeah, it doesn't accept it20:41
E0xi hate this kind of thread : "Maemo Plzz Create Hd Games For Nokia N900"20:41
MohammadAGndiswrapper crashed, yay20:42
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, iirc, yeah, ctrl works20:42
MohammadAGsince I tried mounting the rootfs block20:42
DocScrutinizerfair enough20:42
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RST38hMohammad: Why?20:43
MohammadAGCause I'd hate WebOS as a laptop OS20:43
RST38hMohammad: As long as that thing sits in the firmware and acts as a fast-boot environment, it should be fine20:44
RST38hMohammad: The are notforcing it on you, Windows is still there20:44
MohammadAGoh, fast-boot20:44
RST38hjavispedro will be delightedthough :)20:44
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MohammadAGthen I'd love it20:44
MohammadAGas long as it's not the main OS, and Windows can die20:44
MohammadAGI'd love a Debian sticker instead of a Windows one20:45
RST38hthe Nicolai guy is a freaking genius20:45
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RST38hMohammad:Debian people are extremely anal retentive legal-wise, so no way20:45
RST38hUbuntu maybe. Not Debian20:45
MohammadAGUbuntu then20:45
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GAN900webOS could be interesting.20:52
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crashanddie_MohammadAG: You in IL atm?21:02
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MohammadAGcrashanddie_, yeah21:03
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MohammadAGsad how stuff like this can be ignored
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ricki8024hello, has anyone a tip for a recommendable repository list for a nokia n900?21:12
crashanddie_and that's about it, really.21:12
ricki8024i heard about quole or something like that21:13
crashanddie_You asked for recommendable :)21:13
ricki8024ah, ok :)21:13
crashanddie_Qole is a cannuck... So we can't recommend it.21:13
ricki8024ok, and what about a list of not so recommendable repositories? ;)21:15
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ricki8024today i was looking for netcat and didn't found it21:16
* MohammadAG looks at devel and whispers along21:16
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GAN900Hey, crashanddie_.21:21
divanwho is familiar with disassembling ELF binaries?21:21
GAN900ricki8024, Extras-testing21:21
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ricki8024extras, extras-devel, extras-testing, and also doesn't list netcat or i have configured them wrong21:23
ricki8024found qole, thanks crashanddie_21:23
GAN900ricki8024, is a no-go.21:24
ricki8024*disable* :)21:24
crashanddie_hey GAN90021:24
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crashanddie_I'm out, talk to you later or summin21:24
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tripzeroanyone know how to get the APN information out of maemo?21:31
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Corsachmhm, to dial using sip one should select this in “call type” in the phone app?21:35
fralshm, anyone know of any oss app that registers an action for contacts?21:36
fralsie adds another action along side "Call" and "SMS"21:36
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DocScrutinizerricki8024: tools21:39
DocScrutinizerCorsac: yep21:39
ricki8024i just found and . should have looked harder before asking.21:40
DocScrutinizerfrals: like "MMS"? ;-D21:40
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fralsDocScrutinizer: yeah ;P21:40
DocScrutinizerfrals: you should have better sources of info now21:41
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DocScrutinizerfrals: dunno how open e.g SIP is21:41
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fralswell, easier asking here if anyone has done it then running around in a huge building ;-)21:42
CorsacDocScrutinizer: somehow I can't do that, typing on the “call type” button doesn't give anything (while I do have a connected sip account)21:42
Corsactrying to call using a contact gives a “call disconnected” message instantly21:42
DocScrutinizerheh, same problem I had, until yesterday21:42
Corsachow did you fix that? :)21:43
DocScrutinizerCorsac: I assume your SIP has checked the "Use for phonecalls"21:43
DocScrutinizerCorsac: I updated to PR1.321:43
Corsacin the advanced properties?21:43
Corsac(I have PR1.3 too)21:43
Corsacwell, CSSU, so maybe there's something broken21:43
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DocScrutinizerI gather I killed that by doing apt-get autoremove21:44
Corsachow do you check the “use for phonecalls”?21:44
DocScrutinizernah, I got CSSU as well21:44
CorsacI don't have that in the account properties21:44
lolcatI got to borrow a Nokia 1208 as a replacement for my phone :S21:44
DocScrutinizerlemme check21:44
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DocScrutinizer51yes, first option in SIP advanced21:46
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DocScrutinizer51was gone when I got that problem21:46
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Corsacweird, I don't have thjat21:47
Corsacmaybe I should recreate it21:47
DocScrutinizer51see above21:47
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DocScrutinizer51doesn't help21:47
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DocScrutinizer51something's messed up21:47
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* jaska pokes the wiki with a baltic herring21:50
CorsacDocScrutinizer: damn, and I forgot my password and I just deleted the account :/21:50
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slonopotamusyou deleted account without knowing password? :)21:52
Corsacyeah, but I managed to change it anyway21:52
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Corsacso it's ok but still no parameter21:52
Corsacand still “call disconnected”21:52
DocScrutinizerW: Conflicting distribution: fremantle-1.3 Release (expected fremantle-1.3 but got )21:54
DocScrutinizerW: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems21:54
DocScrutinizerwhich is exactly what I did to produce this error21:54
tgDocScrutinizer: hm this keymap is indeed fsckdup, i press the keys but nothing happens in the rescue-initrd menu21:55
slonopotamusso... where i get package install history in maemo/debian/ubuntu/whatever-deb-based?21:55
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MohammadAGyou don't, afaik21:56
Mouseypackage management != version control21:56
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tarantismHi, anyone know if the QGesture stuff works on the N900 (PR1.3)? Just tried it with no joy.21:56
slonopotamusMousey: you don't need version control to write a log21:56
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Mouseyslonopotamus: /var/log/dpkg.log?21:57
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DocScrutinizerCorsac: apt-get gives me:21:57
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DocScrutinizerThe following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:21:57
DocScrutinizer  rtcom-accounts-plugin-facebook rtcom-skype-emoticons-theme rtcom-accounts-voip-support as-utils cherry libshiboken0.321:57
DocScrutinizer  pyside-qt4-gui modest-home-applet microb-geolocation pyside-qt4-core libpyside0.321:57
DocScrutinizerUse 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.21:57
slonopotamusMousey: no such thing on maemo21:57
DocScrutinizerrtcom-accounts-voip-support !!!21:58
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Mouseyslonopotamus: maybe a different place is specified in /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg?21:58
Corsacit's in rc status here21:58
slonopotamusMousey: it is commented out, obviously21:59
Mouseythen it's probably not logging?21:59
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slonopotamusnokians did everything (and a bit more) to turn debian base into complete crap21:59
Mousey...point being, that's dpkg's log facility.22:00
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Mouseymaybe uncomment it and logrotate ftw?22:00
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slonopotamuslogrotate? no cron on maemo22:00
piggz_Jaffa: i tweeted you22:00
Mouseyoh. anacron? at? install it?22:00
Mouseyidk, just tryna help22:01
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DocScrutinizerCorsac: you reinstalled rtcom-accounts-voip-support?22:02
Corsacjuste rebooted22:03
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: alarmed22:03
Corsacyeah, seems to work better22:03
DocScrutinizerkilled another of those fat insects ;-D22:03
slonopotamusbugs attack?22:04
DocScrutinizernow WTF is it considered free for autoremove?22:04
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slonopotamusbecause noone deps on it? because autoremove is broken?22:05
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DocScrutinizerI guess because noone depends on it - which clearly is a bug22:05
DocScrutinizerwell, aiui the autoinstalled-tag is a bug, to start with22:06
DocScrutinizerit clearly is needed for SIP telephony, and either is a pkg of its own right, or a dependency of dialer22:07
DocScrutinizerI suspect some nerd thought it's sufficient to pull it in as a dependency of skype22:08
DocScrutinizerCBA to open a ticket :-P22:09
slonopotamusno idea. i just saw some packages gone autoremoved after installing cssu, but there was none i cared of22:09
slonopotamus3 < some < 822:09
DocScrutinizerrtcom-accounts-voip-support is still there, after CSSU install22:09
slonopotamuseverything's there until apt-get autoremove22:10
slonopotamusand you could have marked it as manually-installed22:10
DocScrutinizerbut I most likely followed apt-get's advice to autoremove it some 4 months ago22:10
DocScrutinizerwell, I marked nuttin in whatever way22:11
slonopotamusas i said, autoremove is broken starting from the initial idea to keep the list of auto-installed packages instead of the list of manually-requested ones.22:11
DocScrutinizeras apt is a miracle to me22:11
DocScrutinizerso it's definitely apt-get that's fsckdup?22:12
DocScrutinizerwhatever, time for another edit on jr/tools22:13
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lcukfrals, what do you mean by your tweet?22:46
lcuktrying to figure out how to add "MMS" to osso-abook when contacts got TEL field defined, anyone able to give me a pointer? #maemo #n90022:46
tgDocScrutinizer: \o/ got the code :)22:48
MohammadAGlcuk, telepathy more than osso-abook related22:48
MohammadAG(cc frals)22:49
MohammadAGhe means he wants an MMS field, same way there's an SMS field22:49
DocScrutinizertg: john'ed?22:49
tgproblem was that22:50
tgthe first image i tried didnt have a working keyboard22:50
tgthe second didnt even boot22:50
tgthen it worked with 1.1.80 finally22:50
DocScrutinizerhow about updating that friggin wikipage?22:50
tgi'll do that :)22:50
DocScrutinizerwith the broken link22:50
tgbut then there was no /dev/mtdblock1 and no mknod and no writable fs22:51
tgso i mounted an mmcblk0p2 which was writable so i could mknod there :)22:51
DocScrutinizerwriteable fs? what for?22:51
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tgfor mknod22:51
tgbecause there was no device file22:51
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DocScrutinizernow THATS a decent rescue tool22:52
tgbtw there is no mknod either but /sbin/busybox-static mknod worked :)22:52
MohammadAGone question22:52
fralslcuk: what MohammadAG said ^22:52
MohammadAGdo you have a uSD card inserted?22:52
tgare you asking me?22:53
tgno i dont have22:53
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tgonly the one built-in22:53
MohammadAGoh, /home22:54
lcukfrals, MohammadAG, I guessed as much, but better to clarify - so a dedicated MMS number, like the Fax field?22:54
tgyes that's what i mounted22:54
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MohammadAGlcuk, he probably wants an MMS button for every mobile number22:55
MohammadAGnot for phone lines though, last I checked those still don't support MMS22:55
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lcukyeah, but that is down to the telcos and homephones22:55
lcukjust like home phones now support SMS ;)22:56
DocScrutinizerthis cramming of contacts with N numbers * M services is unbearable22:56
* lcuk thinks the digital lady who phones and in robot voice tells me the sms22:56
lcukis great &22:56
MohammadAGshe has a Microsoft Sam-like voice when I tried it at a friend's house22:57
fralslcuk: as MohammadAG said, an MMS button for every mobile field preferably ;)22:57
* DocScrutinizer wonders how that lady will tell lcuk about the picture in that MMS22:57
lcukfrals, that is a different issue in part!22:57
lcukDocScrutinizer, our homes are connected nowadays aren't they22:58
lcukthe homephone should bluetooth the MMS :P22:58
fralsi got the mms button to show up but only for a separate defined field and it would only launch accounts-ui when tapped :p22:58
MohammadAG"It has awesome boobs, oh wait, no that's my pic... ah, got it..."22:58
lcukfrals, hm your basic premise is further integration22:59
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fralsbut i dont want to convert the whole thing to a telepathy plugin ;)22:59
* DocScrutinizer mumbles about he mumbled about CSSU contacts long ago, better to do those prior to cssu-dialer23:00
DocScrutinizerAND NUKE TELEPATHY!23:00
lcukfrals, the other side of that was also at the sharing dialog23:00
Maceri like telepathy :)23:01
lcukI knew you were going to say that.23:01
Macerwell. it is pretty good23:02
lcuki do too, and hearing DocScrutinizer say that is odd23:02
Maceri am waiting for meego to be done23:03
Macerwonder if it will suck23:03
lcukmeego will grow and solidify23:03
DocScrutinizertelepathy is useless due to missing 300+ pages of docs23:04
Macerif they can get it working on something worth using it will23:04
Macer300+ pages of docs?23:04
Maceri am not holding my breath for meego ;)23:05
fralswhen i was looking at it last it was missing "idiots guide to how to add mms as a plugin" ;(23:05
Maceri doubt it will ever be done at least for an n900 and i wouldnt buy another nokia abandonware device23:05
DocScrutinizersee, I generally get a generic own solution faster than I get how telepathy would do same thing for me23:05
Macerthink i learned my lesson with the n8x0 and n900 :)23:06
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GAN900frals, how's the weather?23:14
fralshorrible, like always in HEL23:14
GAN900frals, and the emotional atmosphere? *g*23:15
lcukI thought HEL people always said weather was better yesterday23:15
fralsemotionally the sun is shining23:15
GAN900Feels like summer's here.23:16
GAN900Touching the mid-high 80s today.23:16
frals0C and probably 10-15m/s in wind23:17
fralscan see most parts of the sidewalks now thou, first time in 4 months!23:17
GAN900I can too! (I vacuumed a couple dumpsters worth of oak leaves out of the yard yesterday)23:18
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pupnik_gas now costs 10 cents a gallon23:22
kwtmHi, MohammadAG and others. How can I play a tone of specified frequency and duration in my Python script on the N900?  Is there a "tone <freq> <dur>" command, or some dbus signal I can send, or a PyGTKn900 function I can call, or (at the last resort) some C program I can compile on my N900 which can give me this capability?23:23
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MohammadAGkwtm, I suck at python :p23:24
MohammadAGask khertan when he's on, maybe frals knows23:24
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kwtmMohammadAG: How would you do it?  Is there a system call?  I don't want to be stuck playing sound files.23:25
kwtmyou're a C++ guy, right?23:25
kwtmOh, no, GTK.  C guy, then.23:25
MohammadAGnah, Qt, so C++23:27
MohammadAGI do some C/Gtk edits, for programming from scratch, what would take me 5 minutes with Qt takes me an hour with Gtk23:28
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kwtmOh, good, I actually prefer KDE to Gnome, so I'd prefer to stay with Qt.  So how do you make a sound with Qt/C++?  (besides the sound of my grinding teeth as I try to work around Nokia's GUI?)23:31
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DocScrutinizersystem("sox synth...")23:38
LjLwhat do you suggest for easy offline maps on the N810 (aside from the built-in Maps thing)? i only really need one city at a time, so i guess i could live with multi-level bitmaps, but i'd like to be quite sure the needed city stays in the cache23:38
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Treibholzdoes someone get erminig to work in the n900-SDK?23:38
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DocScrutinizeror, if you prefer to stay with preinstalled things: system("play-sound /path/to/beep.wav")23:41
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tripzeroDocScrutinizer, ew23:45
tripzerokwtm: take a look at QMultimedia23:46
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: wow, didn't know sox could do that and didn't know sox was available!  I have been conservative in avoiding extras-devel, but since the N900 is probably going to be the only (worthwhile) thing left afloat after the Sinking Island of Nokia, I might as well install that before everything disappears.23:59
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