IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-03-08

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nialaquestion; where can i found arm-2007q3-51sb6-gdb71-arm-none-linux-gnueabi_linux.tar.bz2  ? need for madde00:15
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MacerVenemo: hello00:50
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: I hope you are reading the discussion at #meego01:03
javispedrotracker bashing now went "upstream"01:04
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DocScrutinizer51heh :-D01:04
javispedrotbh, I read Arjan's post on the meego mailing list as more nails in the coffin01:06
* merlin1991 wonders why everyone bashes tracker whilst not doing something to make it better01:06
javispedroif not for anything else than causing more internal uncoherence. there was plenty already...01:06
Sc0rpiusMeego is dead01:06
Sc0rpiusand good point merlin199101:06
javispedroRST38h: if you're around, please read meego-devel mailing list =)01:06
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DocScrutinizer51best thing to make things better with tracker is doing without it01:07
* javispedro does not blame tracker01:07
javispedroIn fact I remember there was a time when there was this Beagle thing.01:07
javispedro_that_ was a piece of crap, written in C#. Tracker was supposed to be the leaner, C replacement...01:08
DocScrutinizer51tracker is fine for spotlight/kerrybeagle/whatever01:08
DocScrutinizer51but NOT for mediaplayer01:08
ShadowJKBeagle was terrible :)01:08
javispedrosee? everyone agrees all indexers are terrible =)01:08
javispedrois there a non terrible indexer around?01:08
trumeejavispedro, locate?01:08
javispedrothat is not an indexer, it just does filenames01:09
ShadowJKI have a shell script somewhere that does the same thing01:09
javispedronot to mention that updatedb brings my n900 to a complete halt..01:09
DocScrutinizer51there are nonterrible indexer usecases01:09
ShadowJKit starts with find . -iname \*.mp3, iirc :)01:09
DocScrutinizer51anyway. I have to do the sibiric now01:11
DocScrutinizer51walk to buy tobacco01:11
javispedromeego is soo dead.01:11
villagerhow come we still don't have filesystems that function as their own indexes01:11
javispedrohowever, I'm not sure that's bad news for the nokia meego device...01:12
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divanjavispedro, I pushed webos games installer into extras-devel. If you have time, take a look on it, I would appreciate you comments and suggestions. Especially, knowing that you don't like any installers like this ))01:14
divanname is wgames01:14
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lardmanjavispedro: you reckon it's a gonna?01:14
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* lardman wonders whether to bother with the Tab port then, or to just head for Ubuntu01:14
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javispedrolardman: Meego Core is quite good, specially when compared when Ubuntu... so, no :)01:15
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lardmana viable UI + repos for apps are quite important too though01:16
lardmanI hope the renewed N900 effort might produce something there01:17
chxjavispedro: is there a list of stuff that runs under preenv?01:18
javispedrodivan: why, to hear me cry "might god have mercy upon us, what have we done...."01:19
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lardmannot used a capital G I bet ;)01:19
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javispedrochx: well, you can probably use divan 's app ... or
divanjavispedro, no, I thought I might have some good ideas/critics.01:20
javispedroI think the "Find on the internet" button that probably launches Google with the search terms entered is a bit over the top =)01:21
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divanAgree. I'll change it to open Games' URL )01:21
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DocScrutinizer51lol @ searchbutton01:22
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javispedrowell, I think it's way overdone. Remember that the original DrNokSnes banner had some Nintendo bitmaps that I had to remove back in the day...01:23
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DocScrutinizer51javispedro: you noticed my adventure with CSSU dependency hell yesterday?01:27
pupnik_javispedro: did you ever blog/writeup about your journey to get SNES to 60fps?01:28
pupnik_last i remember it was around 3001:28
javispedropupnik_: nope, I've recently written on gp2x about some of the work I did01:28
javispedropupnik_: it's still 30 on n8x001:28
javispedroit just that n900 's graphics speed has pretty much been mastered already01:28
pupnik_well i don't trust my memory so you shouldn't either01:29
javispedrooriginal drnoksnes on n900 was 30fps =)01:29
pupnik_ok thanks. whew01:29
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javispedrobut that's mostly due to compositor, and you only reach 60 without it01:30
javispedrofor the scaled modes, HAA is used, which means around ~40 tops01:30
pupnik_so that compositor explains the high usage of Xorg i see in many games01:30
javispedropupnik_: use settings -> zoom -> 2x01:30
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javispedrothis way I revert to an armv7 scaler and plain xshm with compositor disabled01:31
pupnik_yes that's what i was using01:31
ShadowJKpushing everything an extra loop through 3d takes lots of resources :)01:32
pupnik_excellent excellent... that approach should be used for everything01:32
pupnik_i mean emus01:32
pupnik_playing albion - that DOS game that was recompiled for arm01:33
ShadowJKiirc someone once said browser isn't composited :)01:33
pupnik_rather, disassembled, then recompiled01:33
javispedroShadowJK: has titlebar = composited. doesn't have = very probably isn't.01:33
pupnik_some guy said "i'm going to disassemble a dos game and recompile for arm"01:33
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pupnik_and he did it01:34
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javispedrobtw pupnik_ you might want to take a look at the psx emulation on the n900 threads... tbh I've no idea what the current state is, I think they have like 5 or 6 different authors01:34
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pupnik_i was testing some versions yesterday, pretty amazing to see them run smooth with gles01:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: nope, not remember it =)01:36
pupnik_but they are only getting 50% cpu for the core emulation01:36
pupnik_the rest is being 'wasted'01:36
javispedroon what? sgx waits?01:36
pupnik_pulse, xorg, hildon-desktop01:36
javispedrothey're compositing gles output????01:37
javispedrothat's _EVIL_01:37
pupnik_not everybody is on top of the tech like you01:37
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javispedrobut they just have to make the window fullscreen...01:38
javispedrowell, and some other conditions noone usually has to worry about...01:38
javispedropupnik_: press Ctrl+Shift+N while on the game, see if fps improves01:39
pupnik_is that compositing toggle??01:39
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pupnik_i can't run snes atm01:39
javispedrosnes controls composition, I'm talking about sgx01:40
javispedrothat psx emulator you said wasted cpu time on hildon-desktop01:40
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javispedroand yes, it makes hildon-desktop temporariy enter uncomposited mode (until next time it tries to decide wheter composite/uncomposite again)01:41
javispedro(which usually is when a new window is mapped)01:41
javispedro(a key combination found by MohammadAG iirc , thanks! )01:41
ShadowJKit made xchat weird01:42
javispedroit's not "weird", it's exactly what should happen =)01:42
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javispedroideally, xchat would start continuously pumping next full window updates, but it doesn't01:43
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ShadowJKhm, xrefresh doesn't help01:43
ShadowJKbut cycling through entire channel list fixed the contents in it atleast :)01:44
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DocScrutinizer51javispedro: please read #maemo-ssu chanlog. There's something odd with CSSU when MHD got installed before, and It's messing up things and hard to escape01:52
pupnik_is ctrl-shift-n a toggle?01:52
pupnik_shows no difference here01:53
pupnik_is it only part of that advanced hildon desktop program?01:53
javispedrowhere are you trying it?01:53
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pupnik_pcsx - non gles version01:54
pupnik_whoah not it did something01:54
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pupnik_disabling it gives black screen01:55
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javispedroit means it uses HAA01:55
pupnik_you made sdl_haa, i see01:56
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pupnik_  ahh01:56
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javispedroHAA plugs into that, and it theoretically is the best way to upload 2D to the compositor in order to then do random 3D transformations to it, like rotation or scaling.01:57
DocScrutinizer51wtf that's what xchat is supposed to do on ctrl-sh-N??01:57
pupnik_well i get 53% pcsx,, 27.2 % xprg, 16.9% hildon-desktop01:58
pupnik_it's kind of cool to see this working while minimized of course01:59
javispedrothe question then comes down to: can you do a scaler that uses less CPU than that?01:59
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pupnik_omap 3 has these extra framebuffers that can be scaled for free02:02
pupnik_used for outputting to video for e.g.02:02
javispedroI now remember those discussions =)02:03
javispedroyou were there!02:03
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pupnik_did i tell you i had a stroke?  lost ability to speak and write words02:04
pupnik_it was amazing02:04
javispedroyes, I remember that too.02:04
pupnik_it would be so cool to be able to temporarily disable regions of your own brain02:05
pupnik_and see what that feels like02:05
javispedrocouncil nominations already flowing in!02:05
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javispedro(read maemo-community mailing list if you're interested!)02:08
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divanI saw Handwriting calculator app for N800. Is is available for N900?02:11
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javispedrowhy the hell does twitter suggest me to follow "Women's Wear Daily", "The Dalai Lama", and "Preschoolers" twitter feeds RIGHT after following lcuk???02:18
javispedronot that I blame lcuk, as he's not following any of those... but c'mon twitter, you can do better...02:19
Proteouspupnik_: they can do that with strong magnetic fields02:20
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pupnik_how do you know javispedro :002:23
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pupnik_Proteous: cool
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Proteousthat is the tech they use to do it02:27
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pupnikuser Figa is one of the coolest beginners02:50
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DocScrutinizerfunny detail: modest popped up several warning banners about "host IP or port not reachable", "authentication failed" etc, and usually froze on one those. No task switching possible, of course no closing of the requester. Though there was still click feedback by audio and vib. I usually was able to kill it via powerbutton->kill-current-task, but one time I went fancy and opened an xterm which of course also opened blurred under the banner.04:31
DocScrutinizerWhen I closed that one via powerbutton, the banner hoovered over desktop screen, and no more "kill-current-task" in powerbutton :-P ==> powerdown/reboot04:32
DocScrutinizer(in case you wonder: I opened the xterm via kbd-shortcut)04:33
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pupnikmornin DocScrutinizer04:35
DocScrutinizerin case you want to reproduce: create an imap account with server URL that has a typo, and select TLS for transport security04:35
DocScrutinizerthen proceed to SMTP server and there you as well select TLS but with a correct server URL04:36
DocScrutinizermoin pupnik04:36
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* DocScrutinizer waves at javispedro04:58
pupnikwonderful to see albions 3d engine zip along on device05:00
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: i discharged then connected.  device started doin many strange things05:35
pupnikshort red led blinks05:35
pupnikthen restarts to grey screen05:35
pupnikthen restarts to white screen05:35
pupniklooping restarts about 30 min05:35
pupnikconnected charger05:36
pupnikcharging works fine when booted normally05:36
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DocScrutinizerI think that's a result of a depleted battery plus a charger with high impedance/low power05:37
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pupnikcould be the dodgy usb05:38
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: whastcha listenin to06:18
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pupnikmusic, podcasts...06:24
pupnik   real democratic revolution (anti US) vs fake democratic revolution (staged by us)06:27
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MohammadAGhas anyone tried installing mafw on a PC?07:20
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iliuswhy someone do not edit wikipedia article for maemo?08:13
iliusfor example it says "discontinued, now part of MeeGo"08:13
iliusi have not enough knowledge and not much familiar with wiki08:15
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internetishardyou guys up iptables or thought much about securing the n900?08:28
chxdont want to sound like an ass but asks the guy who is logged in as root into irc?08:29
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internetishardIt is a VM, no sweat08:29
internetishardbesides, Stallman ran as root ;]08:30
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ruskie <-- hmm08:54
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RST38hruskie: everybody kinda suspected this09:03
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RST38hexcept that it will not make WP7 suddenly not suck09:04
ruskie <-- here's the other relevant news ;)09:04
RST38hYeah, also knownnews09:05
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RST38hAs well as the fact that WinMo 6.x sells more devices than WP709:05
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DocScrutinizer51bother to summarize in one short sentence?09:07
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RST38hDoc: Summarize what?09:09
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AsiQueJaffa: here?09:09
DocScrutinizer51the 'news' of M$ nokia deal09:09
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RST38hDoc: MS paid Nokia $1b to make it "choose" WP709:11
RST38hNokia will still pay licensing fees on WP7, per handset, but that is in the future.09:11
RST38hSome MS ghoul quoted as being "very happy" about the deal. You can cry now.09:12
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* DocScrutinizer51 makes mental note to check his virtual Nokia shares09:12
smharthat is not a problem for Nokia. They will not pay much for licensing anyway :-)09:12
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AsiQueendgadget just called Meego, "Intel's MeeGo OS"... snif snif!09:16
RST38hIs it not?09:16
AsiQueit's just sad :-!09:16
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iliuswhy someone do not edit ? for example it says "discontinued, now part of MeeGo". I don't have enough knowledge and not much familiar with wiki09:17
RST38hLooking at the size and ubiquity of Intel, it is probably not sad.09:17
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DocScrutinizer51maemo declaring its own death on wikipedia is sad though09:20
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pupnikDocScrutinizer51: it's kinda weird since maemo is still so much better than alternatives09:34
timeless_xchatanyone here have any pending flights in the next couple of weeks?09:34
pupniki've got way more useful stuff on the n900 than on the android tablet09:34
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pupnikmore games too, better games09:34
pupnikwhy timeless_xchat09:34
timeless_xchati want to test a tool that deals in amadeus references09:35
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DocScrutinizer51amadeus, how you'd access that?09:35
* timeless_xchat shrugs09:36
timeless_xchatnot my tool09:36
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DocScrutinizer51wouldn't you at least need h-e-n, an ethermet adapter, and a hub, to wiretap the terminal in terminal?09:37
DocScrutinizer51at terminal09:38
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DocScrutinizer51I thought amadeus is a closed system managing all the checkin and baggage and tickets and flight schedules and and and...09:40
smharI finished flashing my N900 to PR1.3, but I see in the list of installable applications pyqt 1.2 . is something wrong?09:41
DocScrutinizer51probably some ticket resellers may access parts thru a web interface09:41
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timeless_xchatthis app clearly has a gateway09:41
timeless_xchati've used it before09:42
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DocScrutinizer51gateway == HTML via the internets I gather09:42
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DocScrutinizer51HTTP even09:43
rhkfin1) Any idea why it's not possible to take a photo while speaking on the phone 2) What's the logic behind keyboard behaviour in application menu?09:43
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jonwil#1 is because you cant play the shutter sound at the same time as call audio09:45
pupnik~lart rhkfin09:45
* infobot wallops rhkfin with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long09:45
smharisn't there a PR1.3 of PyQT?09:45
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rhkfinjonwil: I have the shutter sound disabled..09:46
jonwilno idea then09:46
rhkfinpupnik: ?09:46
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jonwilbut I do know the law in some counries makes it illegal for cellphone cameras not to play a shutter sound09:46
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DocScrutinizer51rhkfin: 2) is answered on MHD wesite09:47
rhkfinDocScrutinizer51: ok, thanks (will go to find what's MHD ;)09:47
DocScrutinizer51rhkfin: see my tools website, there's a link09:47
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rhkfinjonwil: yes, I've heard that too, but maemo seems to allow disabling it anyway09:47
rhkfinDocScrutinizer51: ok09:48
rhkfinpupnik: thanks!09:48
DocScrutinizer51basically qwer/asdf/zxcv are graphically mapped to the icons09:48
rhkfinah, right..09:49
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DocScrutinizer51bs goes up one menu, if you got catorize or apmefo09:49
rhkfinhey, that's great!09:49
DocScrutinizer51same works on appswitcher09:49
DocScrutinizer51plus there you can close apps with shift+key09:50
rhkfinWhat's the place I should've read to learn this?09:50
DocScrutinizer51my user?joerg_rw/tools wikipage09:51
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DocScrutinizer51there's a link to matans site09:51
DocScrutinizer51and a video :-D09:51
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timeless_xchatdocscrutinizer, typically, yes09:52
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rhkfinis MHD installed by default or does it come with CSSU?09:53
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timeless_xchatdocscrutinizer : any way to scroll?09:54
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DocScrutinizer51scroll? on HD?09:54
timeless_xchatthe launcher09:55
DocScrutinizer51none I know of09:55
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DocScrutinizer51I'd prefer a cursorkeys based highlighting frame rather than - or additional to - this graphic mapping09:58
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DocScrutinizer51use apmefo to have short menues10:02
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rhkfinone thing I'd miss is that pressing ctrl+bs in task switcher would take me to app list10:02
rhkfinI see that I can change the behaviour of ctrl+bs, but that's permanent..10:02
DocScrutinizer51nah, maybe enter or space10:03
DocScrutinizer51ctrl-bs is already used for swapping aps like alt-tab on 'real' PC10:03
rhkfinOn desktop, left top takes you to task switcher, where left top button takes you to app list. On desktop, ctrl+bs takes you to task switcher - it'd be very logical if I could 'continue' from there to app list..10:04
DocScrutinizer51matan told me something about F9 or whatever10:04
DocScrutinizer51maybe that's been for menues *in* apps though10:05
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DocScrutinizer51honestly MHD could use some streamlining10:05
rhkfinwell, I'd be happy with _any_ button to take me from task switcehr to app list, now that I can use keyboard on app list..10:06
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rhkfin\o/ Left and right arrows change desktops in the home screen.10:06
DocScrutinizer51and bs in applauncher menu brings you 'up' to taskswitcher - redundant function but well10:09
rhkfinwhy is it redundant?10:10
DocScrutinizer51what we'd need would be bs in taskswitcher to bring you to desktop10:10
rhkfin.. bs doesn't take one... exactly my point.10:10
DocScrutinizer51ctrl-bs does same10:10
rhkfinah, right...10:10
rhkfin(but doesn't take one again back to app list )10:11
DocScrutinizer51that's the problem: desktops, aplist, and app menues10:12
rhkfinyes, moving between those three10:12
DocScrutinizer51and cursor keys to move a highlight10:12
rhkfin(incl. scrolling down)10:12
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lardmanmorning all10:13
DocScrutinizer51enter down, bs up. space for select10:13
lardmanquick diff question, I've generated an almighty diff of the Samsung kernel patches, is is possible to split this into individual patches which are placed in their original dir structure?10:13
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DocScrutinizer51or s/up/out/  s/down/in/ if you want10:13
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rhkfinDocScrutinizer51: yes10:14
DocScrutinizer51in to applauncher, out back to taskswitcher and then to desktop10:14
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rhkfinHmm.. I didn't try taking photo using blessN900.. that might work..10:16
rhkfin(or maybe it's more low level :/10:16
DocScrutinizer51well, we could handle desktop and launcher like tasks10:16
rhkfin(taking photo during a call, I mean)10:16
rhkfinDocScrutinizer51: interesting idea!10:17
* jonwil hopes we dont have to wait months to hear from qgill in regards to :P10:17
povbotBug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework10:17
DocScrutinizer51should be simple to start a desktop proxy task10:17
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DocScrutinizer51and a launcher proxy task10:17
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DocScrutinizerI gather taskswitcher has to be open, otherwise Matan couldn't have patched it. So it shouldn't be too hard to patch it some more to have at least 2 mini screens always even without any started task: desktop and applauncher10:24
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DocScrutinizerwell, a desktop proxy task would work as well. On selecting it, it just switches desktop to front immediately (and takes a snapshot of desktop to display in its own window, so you get a small image of desktop in taskswitcher - though I'd prefer a very obvious simple icon over a real desktop snapshot. Like e.g a lemon-green square with a white D in it)10:35
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rhkfinI have no idea how the task switcher works but could one have two icons on the top/bottom/left/right that'd take you to desktop or app list? That'd keep the actual task list clean for apps10:36
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DocScrutinizererr, you already got one icon top left10:37
DocScrutinizerthe problem is you can't select this icon right now, while tasks you can select with several methods10:37
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DocScrutinizeractually 3 methods, one of then working for icon as well :-D10:38
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DocScrutinizeryou might consider "background" as the second icon10:39
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rhkfinnot very easy to find for new users (neither is ctrl+bs ;) but that's not a huge issue, I guess..10:41
norayrtrx: hey, any progress on compiling your project?10:42
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rhkfinDocScrutinizer51: has someone tested&reported if you scripts (wiki/joerg/tools) work on PR1.310:46
DocScrutinizer51well, most of that went into CSSU anyway, except of course for the cmdline things that for sure work on 1.3 as well10:47
DocScrutinizer51MHD for example works with PR1.3+ CSSU just like it did for my tweaked 1.210:48
DocScrutinizer51keyboard CR issue seems to be fixed as well, so that's also void10:48
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DocScrutinizer51key-repeat wwwwwwwwworks also :-D10:49
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smharhow come there are still packages in the extra repo with 1.2 version? are they ok to run with PR1.3 sys?10:51
DocScrutinizer51I just would like to tweak the chars/s setting for key-repeat10:51
DocScrutinizer51prolly they are10:51
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macmaNwhats up guys11:41
macmaNfollowing should be good enough to get tmux on maemo?11:41
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macmaNsynergy running on fremantle would also be nice, i'd like to easily control the n900 with laptop keyboard11:47
ruskiehmm I thought that was already around11:48
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macmaN this doesnt seem to gve much hope11:49
macmaNoh wait gives hope :)11:49
timeless_officeso, i just got a new toy11:49
timeless_officeand well, it's pretty amazing how one can screw up the home screen11:50
macmaNtimeless_office: what toy is that11:50
* timeless_office needs to look for en-us firmware to see if it sucks less11:51
ruskiedoes it actually do anything other than looking shiny?11:51
timeless_officeit looks like crap11:52
timeless_officephotos coming11:52
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crashanddie"A California couple whose wedding plans appeared thwarted when a lung infection landed the groom in the isolation ward of a hospital were married over the weekend, in a ceremony conducted over Skype."11:53
crashanddieSounds like an episode of House.11:53
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ruskietimeless_office, you mean it doesn't look as shiny as this: ?11:54
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JaffaMorning, all11:55
JaffaAsiQue: pong11:55
crashanddiemorning Jaffa11:56
ruskielets say morning...11:56
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timeless_officeruskie: this is what i saw when i reached the home screen:
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lcuk3timeless_office, hm12:00
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lcuk3the page offers wrong mime type when you try and view full/raw image12:00
lcuk3and downloads as binary text12:00
lcuk3(right click, view image)12:01
lcuk3so that I could scale it12:01
macmaNlcuk3: :) im with you on that, but obv a tad lazier to have typed it up here12:02
timeless_officelcuk3: the web page is magical12:02
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timeless_officeyou can use ?raw=1&ctype=image/jpeg if you want something else12:03
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lcukthanks for the workaround timeless_office \o12:04
lcukbtw, that occured on mozilla firefox from a mozilla server ;)12:04
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macmaNgood pt12:04
macmaNdamn i feel like yesman12:05
Cor-AimacmaN: wana give me like 1500000$?12:05
lcuktimeless_office, now I also have to rotate laptop! :P12:05
lcukwhat is wrong with the homescreen ?12:06
macmaNCor-Ai: yeah just as soon as one of my 15000000 invoices have been paid12:06
timeless_officelcuk: do you usually write her€ ?12:06
timeless_officeit's actually closer to herε12:07
Cor-AimacmaN: :012:07
lcuklol timeless_office - clipping captions is all the rage12:07
lcukit has gone from me getting shouted at it for years12:07
lcukbut now it is fashionable ;)12:07
timeless_officelcuk: wp7 does it in a way that teaches you that areas are pannable12:08
timeless_officethat doesn't apply her!12:08
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timeless_officeyou can't see the 'e' properly, and it isn't better in landscape in case you were wondering :)12:08
lcuktimeless_office, what happens if it is pannable but with a short caption?12:09
timeless_officegenerally it shows you extra things that come from adjacent views12:09
lcukI know12:09
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AsiQueHey Jaffa, 1 sec12:12
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timeless_officelcuk; the short answer is that wp7 just gets that stuff right12:14
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AsiQueJaffa, i want to tkae bug 11990...12:29
povbotBug resize patch against PR1.3 hildon-home12:29
JaffaAsiQue: Are you the person who's been attaching better patches to it?12:29
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JaffaAsiQue: I suggest you add some comments to the issue then, commenting on the patches pk attached and offering to polish them up into a merge request.12:31
AsiQueok :-)12:32
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macmaNis it possible to install git on n900?12:39
macmaNenough room on rootfs?12:39
macmaNhmm there is no git-core package even it seems12:39
ruskiethere is git available somewhere iirc12:39
ruskieand remember /optification...12:40
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alteregoI think it's in the sdk tools repository12:40
macmaNruskie: optification meaning apt-get or having to repackage or what12:40
macmaNsome apt-get magic switch*12:40
macmaNgentoo portage seems so much better right now than apt :)12:41
ruskieoptification meaning that stuff gets modified and installed to /opt and then symlinked to rootfs12:41
ruskiethere's a few tools for it out there12:42
macmaNmhm, i did that manually for git on openwrt12:42
ruskieiirc maemo-optify12:42
ruskiewhich hav maemo-optify and maemo-optify-deb that works directly on debs12:42
rhkfinI had git installed at some point on N90012:43
* FauxFaux has it installed; used for backups.12:43
rhkfinno idea where did I find it if not from repositories..12:43
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ruskiethe sdk repos probably12:45
macmaNi use it for /etc management12:45
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DocScrutinizermaemo-optify-deb? o.O12:47
macmaNwell ill be damned12:48
DocScrutinizerso is there a maemo-UNoptify-deb as well?12:48
macmaNBy default, the N900 sets a random MAC address for the USB interface every time you reboot. This makes some operating systems (Mac OS X) detect a new device whenever you connect the N900 and ask you to configure the network interface. The solutions is to set a fixed MAC address12:48
macmaNthis has been driving me bonkers12:48
lcukyou are macman12:49
lcuktalking about mac addresses12:49
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lcukfrom your mac12:49
lcukI would have thought this was your ideal time to shine!12:49
rhkfineating BigMac12:50
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macmaNlcuk: lol im sitting behin my mobile puter right now12:50
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macmaNwhich is an acer timeline12:51
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macmaNmy maccy is on standby
macmaNif i didnt join this channel just today, i could claim that irssi shot on the right is #maemo12:52
macmaNok madde resetting itself to is annoying as hellz12:53
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lcukmacmaN, I find standup desks only work if you also have a wall to lean against12:53
lcukrm_you prototyped this once.12:53
macmaNlcuk: my experience is you need a switchable setup, so you can alternate, something like 30min/30min or whatever cycle12:54
macmaNwall could also work, havent tried that12:55
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DocScrutinizerrandom MAC addr on USB? LOL - OM fixed this like 3 years ago12:56
lcukmacmaN, you need room to move around certainly12:56
lcukin other places with standup stations, also having coffee and food service helps12:56
lcuk(on the other side of room)12:57
DocScrutinizer>> This is not a spam If you don’t want to receive this message to your e-mail, call this number and refuse it - spell your e-mail<<12:59
DocScrutinizer+ 1 - 646 -  ... somebody to give this guy a visit and let him know?13:01
khertanlcuk, i know you are always testing the last Meego version on your n900, did last version have fixed wifi settings ?13:10
khertani didn't found that on the qa report13:10
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lcukkhertan, which bug number was the bug marked as?13:12
lcukand if you say "I did not file one" I cannot help13:12
lcukkhertan, so grab latest daily testing image and check, wifi works for people, but if you have specific issue, get it filed so the right people can track/manage it13:14
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Venemohey khertan, I've been looking for you :)13:21
khertanlcuk, didn't remember the bug number but was already referenced ... :) so i ll try myself :) thx for the info13:22
LantiziaOK So I've hung on to the belief that Nokia went for this WP7 deal to get $1bn... keep the Symbian end a-float a bit with something new... and eventually get back around to MeeGo one day... basically use-n-abuse MS as a commercial decision only to stop claims Nokia/Symbian aren't going anywhere...13:22
* khertan never found something with bugzilla search13:22
LantiziaBut now they've sold Qt... so if they were serious with MeeGo in the future, surely they'd hang on to it?13:22
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Venemokhertan, how hard would it be to make KhtEditor run C files?13:24
khertanVenemo, run c file ?13:25
khertanyou mean compile them before and then run them ?13:25
Lava_CroftLantizia: they sold Qt?13:25
Lava_CroftLantizia: are you sure?13:25
Lava_Croftor are you just copying slashdot and other not-so-well-informed sources13:25
khertanLantizia, they didn't sold qt13:25
Lava_Croftslashdot & friends have trouble reading13:25
khertanLantizia, they sold the right to do commercial support to digia13:25
Lava_Croftbasically, anyone wanting to use Qt, but cant/doesnt want to use the open license13:26
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Lava_Croftmostly medical, military etc13:26
timeless_officee.g. who wants someone they can sue13:26
Lava_Croftits not about the sue13:26
timeless_officeor needs commercial support13:26
Lava_Croftits about some lines of business not being able to open source13:27
timeless_officethat only applied to GPL13:27
timeless_officeNokia already licenses Qt under LGPL13:27
Lava_Croftthats still too open for some lines of business13:27
LantiziaWell I did read it correctly but seriously if the ability to license it has been sold, the 19 employees have moved, the existing enterprise customers have gone... what's left?13:27
LantiziaNokia hosting the code, oh and maybe a trademark13:28
Lava_CroftLantizia: all qt development remains at nokia13:28
timeless_officeas long as you don't make changes to Qt itself, you generally don't need to worry about the license of your code for just linking to Qt(LGPL)13:28
LantiziaLava_Croft, development of Qt can be done by anyone13:28
Lava_Croftwell, not all, but mainly it does13:28
Lava_Crofttimeless_office: that still is not enough for some lines of business13:28
Lava_Croftim not trying to defend the stance, but thats just how it is in the world13:28
LantiziaPlus... Nokia have had Trolltech a long time now... why wait until after the WP7 deal to do this?13:29
Lava_CroftLantizia: but nokia wants to do it themselves too13:29
Lava_CroftLantizia: they didnt 'wait'13:30
LantiziaLava_Croft, do what themselves?13:30
Lava_Croftthey have been looking for a good company to take it over13:30
Lava_CroftLantizia: developing qt13:30
Lava_Croftdigia is iirc also a finnish company13:30
Lantiziaso these 19 employees aren't what is left of the Qt team then after the walk outs?13:30
Lava_Crofti dont know any numbers about employers13:31
Lava_Crofti dont have access to such data13:31
khertanlcuk, something i didn't understand is the difference between trunk and testing ... are there a real difference ?13:31
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timeless_officelantizia: they're basically PSO / Sales13:32
Lava_Crofti dont see how that article is any good13:33
Lava_Croftor better than the other 5000 articles13:33
Lava_Croftat least its not saying that nokia sold qt, so good link13:33
Lantiziafair enough - the way that article reads it is as though it is as a result of the WP7 deal13:33
lcukkhertan, only in the place in the pipeline13:33
Lava_CroftLantizia: but its not13:33
Lava_Croftthey have been looking for a company to take over since 201013:33
Lava_Croftall the year13:33
Lava_Croftand probably planned it before than13:34
Lava_Croftit kind of makes sense too13:34
lcukkhertan, Testing branch is like having a fistula on a cow13:34
Lava_Croftthe stuff they sold to digia isnt really a nokia business13:34
lcukyou get to see the patches and work as it is ongoing13:34
Lava_Croftnot a core business13:34
Lantiziano I gathered that when they bought trolltech13:34
Lava_Croftand they didnt sell it to some random company merely to get some $$$13:34
Lava_Croftqt will still remain a factor for nokia in the future, i personally think13:35
macmaNwhats the recommended way to add/remove a new nameserver in
macmaN says add them manually, but it seems that all lookups will timeout on local dnsmasq for a  long time13:35
macmaNbefore hitting the next option13:35
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Venemokhertan: yes. compile, copy the executable to /tmp and run13:39
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LjLVenemo: i want my N810 back now ;(13:48
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VenemoLjL: ? :P13:48
LjLVenemo: gave it to my sister :P13:49
LjLtold her to make sure she plays Puzzle Master a lot as it was basically ported specifically for her :D13:49
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VenemoLjL: hehe :P14:01
VenemoLjL: did she like it?14:02
LantiziaLava_Croft, so do you suspect this Nokia/MS arrangement is as water tight as the Apple/MS arrangement back in the 90's?  Take them for their money, look a bit stronger because of it... revert back later?14:02
VenemoLjL: did your sister like the N81014:02
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LjLVenemo: yes i think she quite appreciated it. of course she isn't yet fully aware of the slowness of the browser and other things :P (i'll just make sure she never uses my Android phone so she doesn't find out =)14:03
LjLon the plus side compared to an Android tablet, i think she might like the telepathy functionality14:04
LjLAndroid's chat applications are terrible14:04
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VenemoLjL: :)14:05
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macmaNok yeah its confirmed14:09
macmaNsynergy on n900 is pure awesomeness14:10
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AsiQuemacmaN: synergy as in sharing a keyboard and mouse?14:11
Lava_CroftLantizia: no14:11
Venemoso khertan, how hard would it be to do this?14:11
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Lava_CroftmacmaN: any thread link orso?14:12
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macmaNLava_Croft: for setting it up?14:13
Lava_Crofttheres a package in the repos?14:13
macmaNapt-get install libxinerama114:13
macmaNand then copy easydebian's binary14:13
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macmaNits v1.3.1 and i noticed synergy has picked up development again14:14
macmaNmoved to and all14:14
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macmaNnewest is 1.4.2 beta14:14
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macmaNthe new interactive configurer is pretty nice on windows (QT power!)14:15
macmaNdragndropping screens around14:15
macmaNhow do you make synergyc autostart on n90014:15
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macmaNtheres no /etc/init.d/local.start14:16
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macmaNhrm yeah a cursor would definitely help..14:22
macmaNesc doesnt clear menus14:22
macmaNenter brings up virtual keyboard..14:22
macmaNscreen switches off14:23
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macmaNand damn i just tried to touchscreen my laptop14:23
* macmaN needs a break14:23
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macmaNyey my first maemo wiki contribution
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khertanVenemo, better providing a custom command line ...14:37
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khertanin preferences14:37
khertanwith a set by language ?14:37
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Venemokhertan: why?14:38
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khertanVenemo, because compilation option aren't the same for all project14:41
khertanmaybe a project file could be good tooo14:41
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lcukkhertan, "make"14:46
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Venemokhertan: if (projecttype == "C") { callCCompiler(); runCCode(); }14:53
Venemoanyway, I have to leave now14:53
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auenfboo, flash is broken on n900 now14:57
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macmaNhrm... gentoo-portage on tablets sounds like a good idea14:58
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macmaNehh -prefix i mean14:59
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jonwilOne of these days I wanna see a full Gentoo install running on a phone :P15:00
macmaNjonwil: doesnt this already do it?
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jonwilI said "phone", not "tablet" :P15:01
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lcukjonwil, technically, isn't that gentoo package *still* building on his n810 :P15:02
jonwilI am sure you could even get cell modem stuff working if you ported ofono15:02
lcukif you are going that far, why not just self build meego?15:03
jonwilyeah good point :P15:03
jonwilIt was more a "would be cool to see15:03
jonwilthan a "hey, I wanna do this"15:03
jonwilGentoo on a desktop PC is fun though15:04
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jonwilMore fun and interesting than something pedestrian like Ubuntu or Fedora :P15:04
lcukdesktop is a different playground15:05
jonwilhe N900 is still the best phone ever IMO :P15:07
macmaNaha! now its not a tablet anymore is it15:07
jonwilThe guide you linked to was for the N800/N81015:08
jonwiland not the N90015:08
macmaNlol ok i misunderstood15:08
jonwilThe only thing I dont like about the N900 is that it doesn't have features that are standard on just about every other phone out there15:10
macmaNand same the other way around :)15:11
macmaNi'm foreseeing lots of fun watching emerge dependency calculations on n90015:12
MohammadAGZogG, did "IL Orange" change to "orange"?15:12
MohammadAGit kinda made my home screen look shitty :/15:12
macmaNmaybe i should paint some wall and blog about how watching it dry compares to watching emerge on n90015:12
jonwilStill, if there is community interest and a little bit bit of help from Nokia in a few places, there is no reason the N900 couldn't support some of these missing functions15:13
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jonwilIf it wasn't for the bug in libsms/csd-sms, I would have had Cell Broadcast up and running by now15:13
fralswhat bug?15:14
povbotBug 8347: Cell Broadcast Feature not available15:16
jonwilits a simple-looking issue15:16
jonwilbut it cant be fixed as libsms and csd-sms are closed source15:16
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jonwilA binary patch (or a runtime in-memory patch) could be done but I would rather not use such crude hacks15:19
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jonwilI doubt the maintainers of the CSSU are going to be fond of such hacks either :P15:27
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khertanlcuk, indeed ... make ... :)15:32
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Venemo_N900khertan, if it's too hard to implement in KhtEditor, I'll make my own small IDE. Qt creator is OSS so I only need to make a minimalistic GUI to fit on the N900 screen15:37
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khertanVenemo, not really hard ... it s just that i m not a c expert ... and have never compile on my n900 with gcc15:40
Venemo_N900khertan, I can tell you what commands are needed15:41
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khertanVenemo, could be interesting :)15:41
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Venemo_N900khertan, moment, I'll install the necessary stuff15:42
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macmaNDocScrutinizer: does stop bme also stop charging from wall charger -> miniusb?15:45
Venemo_N900macmaN: yes15:46
DocScrutinizerof course. that's what you asked for - stop charging. No?15:46
macmaNokay, so that effectively stops charging altogether15:46
macmaNwell i thought there may be some difference between usb->microusb and wallcharger->microusb15:46
macmaNso you could charge off one but not the other15:47
DocScrutinizerstart bme15:47
macmaNyep gotcha15:47
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Venemo_N900works if I make as root, but I get this error when I try as user:
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Venemo_N900why is it giving me the error?15:56
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kerioit says so right there - /usr/bin/ld: cannot open output file first: Permission denied15:57
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Venemo_N900yes kerio, but why is it denied?15:59
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keriobeause of... permissions?16:00
keriocheck ACLs16:00
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Venemo_N900what is an acl?16:00
iliusVenemo_N900: access control list16:01
Venemo_N900how do i check it?16:01
iliusVenemo_N900: ls command16:02
iliusVenemo_N900: ls -l FILE16:02
Venemo_N900-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root         7061 Mar  8 14:58 first16:03
iliusVenemo_N900: not writable by non-root users16:03
iliusVenemo_N900: unless you change the owner (chown) or permissions (chmod)16:04
Venemo_N900mhm ok16:04
Venemo_N900thanks ilius16:04
iliusVenemo_N900: :)16:04
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DocScrutinizerACLs are not listed by ls. Also not changed by chmod. ACL != permissions16:06
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ZogGMohammadAG, i dunno, i use custom operator, so i have "ZogG" there16:08
ZogGMohammadAG, and anyway it doesn't matter what they call them self they are shitty anyway16:08
DocScrutinizerman getfacl16:08
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Venemo_N900so khertan, make can make an executable from a single file, without issue16:09
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Venemo_N900khertan: 'make myfilename' (without extension) will make myfilename.c and myfilename.cpp into a myfilename executable16:10
khertanindeed ... best choice i think16:10
Venemo_N900for testing, use the hello world example from wikipedia16:10
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ZogGVenemo_N900, i almost figured it out16:12
javispedroACLs on N900? O.o16:12
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Venemo_N900ZogG, the qt binding for xmms?16:12
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ZogGVenemo_N900, with C and glib for now16:13
Venemo_N900ZogG, don't be ridiculous16:13
ZogGVenemo_N900, thinking to screw it and try go all gtk16:13
Venemo_N900go all qt16:13
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ZogGVenemo_N900, i looked thru bindings, they are too complex for me right now and they are not official16:14
khertanVenemo, ok i ll implement that for next minor release16:14
Venemo_N900khertan, I thx16:14
ZogGVenemo_N900, most progs use c++ bindings with qt16:14
khertan... or python ...16:14
ZogGkhertan, hey pal16:15
Venemo_N900ZogG: who cares? your app is not "most progs"16:15
ZogGkhertan, how is qml porting going on?16:15
khertandepends of days :)16:15
khertansometime i'm playing to dev it16:15
ZogGVenemo_N900, but would i be awesome guy for you doesn't matter what way i choose? =)16:15
khertansometimes doing other project16:15
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ZogGkhertan i can be tester if you want =)16:15
khertanKhtSync for example16:16
Venemo_N900ZogG, you'd be awesome if you used the qt bindings in your qt app16:16
khertanZogG, before tester i need to finish the things ... you need to send dbus call to made refresh for the moment :)16:16
Venemo_N900khertan: what does khtsynce do?16:16
khertanVenemo, sync folder over ssh ;)16:16
ZogGVenemo_N900, i think best way is c++, but that boost thing =(16:16
Venemo_N900ZogG: NO16:17
ZogGkhertan, did you used boost for maemo?16:17
Venemo_N900khertan: nice16:17
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ZogGVenemo_N900 why not?16:17
khertanZogG, boost ... nope16:17
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Venemo_N900ZogG: boost is horseshit16:17
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ZogGVenemo_N900, why would you say that?16:17
Venemo_N900who needs boost when we have qt16:17
ZogGthat's what she said16:19
ZogG<ZogG> i was wondering about qt bindings and libxmms2-qt16:19
ZogG<ZogG> as i understand it's unofficial16:19
ZogG<Zharf> not sure if it was ever finished16:19
ZogGhe is one of xmms2 devs16:19
ZogGVenemo_N900, that's joke obv.16:20
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Venemo_N900ZogG: c bindings would be good enough if there was an option to receive a callback on song change16:20
ZogGVenemo_N900, it's work in progres16:21
ZogGthe qt lib16:21
ZogGVenemo_N900 i had callbacks actually16:21
iliuskerio: DocScrutinize is right, ACL is not enabled in maemo and common linux ditributions by default, thats different from permissions. I supposed you purpose of ACL is the same permissions16:21
ZogGVenemo_N900, i just need to check them. code is okay16:22
kerioilius: i assumed he already checked the permissions16:22
kerioif those seem to allow you to do whatever you need to do, ACLs are the second thing to check16:22
ZogGbtw Venemo if i have function in mainwindow.cpp and it's not MainWindow(my app) class, how i can change label from it?16:23
iliuskerio: he probably could not enable ACL on his device16:23
iliuskerio: :)16:23
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: no, ACLs are not enabled on rootfs or /home16:23
iliusI with this tool was availabe for maemo
DocScrutinizertune2fs -l /dev/mmcblk0p216:25
DocScrutinizerext_attr but no ACL16:25
ilius*with -> wish16:26
ZogGVenemo_N900, it's nice to talk to devs sometiems =)16:27
Venemo_N900ZogG: ui->mylabel->setText(...)16:27
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Venemo_N900ZogG: my batter is low, I'll get back later16:27
ZogGVenemo_N900, that wouldn't work as my function is not Mainwindow::func but just func, so it doesn't recognize ui16:28
ZogGVenemo_N900, ok, i'll try to do it with glib, but devs gave me link to functions i can use mainloop of my choise16:29
Treibholzhmm, ENTER doesn't work in ncurses-applications in my terminal16:29
ZogGi would only need help with qt mainloop if you'll have time16:29
DocScrutinizerTreibholz: known bug16:30
DocScrutinizersearch for libvte, or simply use CSSU16:30
E0x <--- very cool16:31
ZogGDocScrutinizer oh sudden you are pro CSSU16:31
Treibholzhow buggy is the cssu atm?16:31
DocScrutinizerZogG: what do you mean?16:31
ZogGDocScrutinizer, as you have your brighness applet16:31
ZogGanyway no time to troll you16:31
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DocScrutinizerpffffff thank God16:32
ZogGdon't lie you like me trolling16:32
DocScrutinizerTreibholz: or simply read about it on
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ZogGnow i'm going to smoke shisha16:32
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DocScrutinizeryeah, ZogG - like pushing a long steel nail into the mains outlet on the wall16:33
ZogGdo you like it too?16:33
DocScrutinizeryes, every once in a while16:33
DocScrutinizerI'm a bot, I need to recharge16:34
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Ex-OpesaHello guys, I forgot the password of n900. I need it to activate the lock. Using PR 1.316:49
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E0xEx-Opesa: do echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1)16:58
E0xand crack that hash using john ripper16:58
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VenemoZogG: DocScrutinizer has always been pro CSSU17:10
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toresbeGreetings! Quick question... is there any way to programmatically receive SMSes, without the notification also reaching the UI?17:13
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DocScrutinizerbtw on a virgin device even grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1 returns 12345 (iirc), which means that's not a crypt()'ed hash but a special case where the code is stored in plain text17:13
toresbeIt'd be a great way to implement push messaging for a utility I'm hacking on, so I don't have to do GPRS polling.17:14
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maenopohi there17:19
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DocScrutinizerE0x: MEH, please check my finding about this has changed and doesn't work anymore in PR1.317:22
DocScrutinizerE0x: I.E. no "lock_code"17:22
jacekowskino lock_code?17:23
DocScrutinizerquite obviously they used sth different now17:23
jacekowskii'm pretty sure that there was a lock_code cal entryp17:23
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: no string "lock_code" in mtd117:23
jacekowskii have it there17:24
jacekowskimaybe it got overwritten by newer blocks or something17:24
DocScrutinizerwell, I get confusing results. Need to check without gnu-grep etc17:24
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DocScrutinizerNB I already found out about -a for gnugrep17:25
jacekowskiwell, check if my code_reset in repository is still working17:25
jacekowskiif it's still working then lock_code is still in cal17:25
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I *for sure* won't ;-P17:25
jacekowskibesides, nothing is flashing cal so it wouldn't just disappear17:25
jacekowskisource is available so you can read it17:25
jacekowskiand btw. i don't trust you too17:25
DocScrutinizeruhih, and what about the screenlocker or libcal itself?17:25
jacekowskiwhat about them?17:26
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DocScrutinizerif rec=CAL_get("lock_code") then {CAL_erase(rec); CAL_write( FOOBARKEY, rec.hash}17:28
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dashavooheh, I've never known my lock_code17:32
dashavooor, I knew it for about 2 minutes17:32
dashavooI eventually discovered that the default was 12345, changed it to something, and none of my "standard" pin numbers work17:33
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DocScrutinizerso it's about time to try above advice17:33
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DocScrutinizermeh, false alert17:36
* DocScrutinizer sips his coffee17:36
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dashavooDocScrutinizer: I tried several times in the past, it doesn't work, but my N900 is pretty messed up anyway, and I rarely want to use the lock17:37
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DocScrutinizerhope you NEVER use the lock17:37
viszcan't get asix eth0 working17:37
viszvia usb17:37
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dashavooif it could be locked without knowing the code in advance, then I would have a problem ;)17:38
DocScrutinizerit can17:45
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E0xi always use the lock17:50
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DocScrutinizerdashavoo: send me the output of echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1):  if you want me to decode your lockcode17:52
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DocScrutinizer(it's not like I could use it for much rogue purposes :-D )17:54
dashavooDocScrutinizer:  root:p9.BLHfd2uUmI:17:55
dashavooDocScrutinizer: anyone who can use _that_ to do something malicious from this distance, deserves my N900 ;)17:55
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user____hey all17:57
user____i want to read and write to microsoft access db (mdb) file on my n900. any pointers?17:57
toresbeWow. ...why would you want to do that?17:57
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lcukuser____, you can read and write them normally17:58
user____a friend is askin me to :)17:58
lcukbut if you want to get at the data within logically there might be a problem17:58
user____well, like quering the data on the tables inside it, stuff like that17:59
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lcuksee my second point.17:59
user____what we usually do with access files17:59
cos^how about exporting the database in some modern format and read it?17:59
user____yea did17:59
DocScrutinizerdashavoo: damn, you for sure must have the most hard to crack PIN I ever john'ed17:59
lcukuser____, commonly, sqlite is used in places where .mdb would be done on Windows18:00
lcuksingle user data storage etc18:00
dashavooDocScrutinizer: my problem exactly ;) - I think it must have become corrupt at some point18:00
user____no exporting i think, wanna manipulate it, then tranfer to a computer and use it there18:00
user____yes i know that lcuk18:00
dashavoouser____: you could try compiling for N900... that would be your best bet I think18:01
user____i was readin, BASE in open office, what program is that?18:01
DocScrutinizerLoaded 1 password hash (Traditional DES [64/64 BS MMX])18:01
DocScrutinizerguesses: 0  time: 0:00:04:08  c/s: 446839  trying: 83536787 - 8353678418:01
user____cool dashavoo18:02
DocScrutinizerdashavoo: how many digits you used for that? :-o18:02
user____will have to use scratchbox for that right?18:02
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user____DocScrutinizer, what are you trying to do? just curious :)18:03
dashavooDocScrutinizer: no idea, none of my standard pins are very long :P18:03
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DocScrutinizeruser____: cracking dashavoo 's device lock PIN18:04
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user____and what software you using?18:05
user____is it that you get some file from him? his device? and then run your software on it?18:05
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DocScrutinizerdashavoo: no luck18:07
DocScrutinizerdashavoo: you're the perfect candidate to try jacekowski 's lock-resetter18:08
dashavooDocScrutinizer: no worries, I didn't think you could18:08
dashavooDocScrutinizer: lock-resetter?18:08
RST38hMohammadAG: Here?18:08
DocScrutinizer[2011-03-08 16:25:03] <jacekowski> well, check if my code_reset in repository is still working18:08
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: how does it work?18:09
jacekowskidocscrutinizer: i don't remember18:12
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: then at least tell me where to find it :-D18:12
jacekowskiapt-get code_reset18:12
DocScrutinizermeh, used HAM ;-P18:12
jacekowskino ui18:13
jacekowskiand btw. my ham is broken18:13
jacekowskii can't install anything18:13
jacekowskibecause it says there is no space lef18:13
MohammadAGRST38h, sup18:14
dashavooCoffee break... relief!18:15
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dashavooDocScrutinizer: I'll have a look after work and see if I can get the code_reset working - I'll let you know18:16
dashavoobye for now18:16
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: same here with apt-get update :-P18:16
jacekowskidashavoo: it's two commands18:17
jacekowskidashavoo: apt-get install code_reset, sudo gainroot, code_reset18:17
RST38hMohammadAG:SPB Brain Evolution fails to start from the desktop, with the CSSU18:17
RST38hMohammadAG: Still runs from xterm, but not from desktop shortcut and not from the applications menu18:18
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MohammadAGRST38h, pastebin the desktop file18:19
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DocScrutinizerrm /var/sys/syslog.old 12MB18:19
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RST38hMohammad: A moment18:20
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khertanlcuk, where to put a bug report ...  : didn't boot in meego about daily image :) (yeah useless)18:23
* khertan will try the weekly image :)18:23
MohammadAGRST38h, hmm, weird18:27
DocScrutinizerwtf?! du -h -s /var/lib/locale18:27
DocScrutinizermay I nuke those japanese and korean locales? ;-D18:28
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RST38hMohammad: Indeed. And I cannoteven diagnose what exactly goes wrong. Tried starting from both landscape and portrait, too18:28
DocScrutinizerumm no18:29
RST38hDoc: by the love of the Tentacled One, go ahead!18:29
DocScrutinizerone friggin file locale-archive18:29
RST38hDoc: Except that in fremantle they are all merged into a huge freaking cache file18:29
RST38hFor which you need a special tool to operate18:29
DocScrutinizer:nod_ ^^^18:29
DocScrutinizernow that's annoying18:30
RST38hif it makes you feel any better, it is pretty well compressed by the file system, not taking nearly as much space as it looks18:30
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DocScrutinizerI'd happily go with LANG=C if it weren't for Nokia's *brilliant* invention of tana_fi_foo_bar_homebutton_thumb18:31
RST38hyea, LANG=C is fine with me too18:31
RST38hNever understood why some people want to translate EVERYthING18:32
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DocScrutinizerI bet you will hate the result of nuking locale-archive nevertheless18:32
RST38hno, nuking it is a badidea18:32
RST38hbut there is some obscuregnu tool for pruning it18:32
DocScrutinizerI18n gurus, what's that tool? please help me out :-)18:33
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Arkenoiwell, seems that my attempt to hire a bunch of people to bring decent crypto functionality to maemo failed completely. they fucked my breain instead and that was all.18:36
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RST38hDepends on who you hire and how you pay18:36
lcukArkenoi, perhaps you should not have encrypted the application form.18:37
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ArkenoiRST38h, i did not pay because they did not show me any prototype code at least. that was wise not to pay in advance, despite the fact they talked quite reasonably.18:38
RST38hThat too18:38
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DocScrutinizerwhat's the problem with crypto? seems to me all is already there18:40
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, orly? no crypto support either in email or VoIP is called "already there"? Or having gpg and openssl libraries is?18:41
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DocScrutinizerdepending on your demands it will just bring the system to a grinding halt, when you start swapping to a crypted swap partition :-D18:42
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DocScrutinizererrr, gpg is FOSS, no?18:42
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, btw i doubt encrypted swap will do much worse because bottleneck is io, not cpu anyways18:43
DocScrutinizeryeah, somewhat18:43
steve___GNU Privacy Guard18:43
ArkenoiYes, but as there is no modest integration it is the same for average user as not having it at all18:43
DocScrutinizerthat's sadly true18:43
DocScrutinizerso it's not about encryption really, but rather about unfscking the maemo core apps which may or may not be closed18:44
* Arkenoi wonders why all smartphones support crypto so poorly. It is vital and obvious functionality and there is no reason to leave it out.18:44
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, it relies mostly on modest, tinymail, gstreamer and telepathy which are open18:45
RST38hBut ain't GSM communications already encrypted? =)18:45
* RST38h hides, preventively18:45
DocScrutinizergstreamer??? DUH18:45
dm8tbrI hear there is some AES crypto unit in the OMAP3 :)18:45
dm8tbrsupposedly there is even linux kernel code18:45
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if Arkenoi wants to crypt the audio on its way from speaker to Arkenoi 's ears18:45
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, voip codec framework relies on gstreamer18:46
RST38hObama creates indefinite detention system for prisoners at Guantanamo Bay18:46
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: so what? no voip is doing encryption on the digital audio level18:47
DocScrutinizercheck ZRTP18:47
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, if i wish to add zrtp, gstreamer is the place where it should live.18:47
DocScrutinizercan even be used as a local proxy to crypt RTP streams of existing apps18:47
DocScrutinizerand there's definitly no gstreamer near that18:48
RST38hafaik Maemo uses hardcoded gstreamer pipelines everywhere18:48
RST38hso,it may not be such a good idea with gstreamer18:48
DocScrutinizercheck ZRTP18:48
DocScrutinizercan even be used as a local proxy to crypt RTP streams of existing apps18:49
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, if i wish it to be used transparently, it was said gstreamer is the place, as other people on bmo/tmo checked it before18:49
Arkenoiit may be separate integration pita. sip codecs and rtp implementation all live in gstreamer18:50
DocScrutinizermeh, ZRTP proxy is operating on IP streams18:50
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, yes, but i need to register some new voip pseudo protocol anyways to make settings look reasonable18:50
Arkenoiso messing with telepathy and gstreamer is inevitable18:50
DocScrutinizererrr, there's a thing called local loopback?18:51
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, do i expect joe average user registering on local loopback and editing cryptic looking configs?18:51
DocScrutinizerdefinitely ZRTP proxy can get installed on virtually every RTP system18:52
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: now THAT can be tackled18:52
DocScrutinizer5 lines of sed/awk anf 3 gconf commands, and fine18:53
Arkenoiwell, maybe, if someone is willing to do it that way quick and cheap, i agree18:53
DocScrutinizerwell, refusing to mess with patching existing apps inevitably results in 'the cheap & dirty approach"18:54
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* MohammadAG boots up 1 March MeeGo image18:56
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: there's however one thing you definitely won't fix: GSM18:56
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MohammadAGholy shit the settings page is a mess18:57
DocScrutinizerAIUI the GSM codec is implemented in BB5 and you can't mess around with it18:57
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, yes, but given 2G networks become extinct, we may expect reasonable bandwidth18:57
Arkenoito ba available all the time18:57
MohammadAGnice scrolling, if you can do it18:57
DocScrutinizersure, so you're back to VoIP basicaly18:58
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Arkenoithere is a dirty trick, run voip over csd, but i am not sure n900 does really support csd at all18:58
MohammadAGlol clicking the menu opened the android-like status bar18:58
DocScrutinizerI think it might do CSD, but I doubt 3G does CSD18:58
MohammadAGwhy do I even bother...18:58
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: so most probably HSCSD is best you can get18:59
DocScrutinizerfor p2p18:59
DocScrutinizerand even for that I'm not sure it really supports p2p19:00
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, it cerainly does, or you may send a signal to switch to 2G via sms on call setup. there are numerous devices like atm, pos, tracking devices etc that rely on csd functionality, so it is unlikely to be taken off the network19:00
DocScrutinizerit's not taken off the network, I just doubt you can INVITE (aka call) a MT via HSCSD19:01
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DocScrutinizerso you're back to CSD which afaik is 1440019:02
Arkenoino progress here for 3 years19:02
DocScrutinizerwhich might be just fine for iLBC and similar codecs19:02
MohammadAGLOL MeeGo has an Ovi store logo19:03
MohammadAG(well, Ovi, to get backgrounds)19:03
DocScrutinizerstill you need a contract that allows inbound data calls19:03
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, 14400 is enough for voice if it is a guaranteed bandwidth (not like GPRS)19:03
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DocScrutinizersure, that's what I said19:03
DocScrutinizerGSM codec works even with halfrate which is 4800 ;-)19:04
Arkenoii am not really sure it is still required for m2m calls (it is if you wish to accept data calls from analogue phones)19:04
DocScrutinizerfullrate 9600, enhanced full rate 1440019:04
* SpeedEvil hasn't readbackscroll.19:04
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* SpeedEvil wonders ifthis is time to cue the 'no, you can't transmit data over voice codec' rant.19:05
DocScrutinizerno, we're beyond that point19:05
* SpeedEvil decides it's time to clean keyboard.19:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: CSD19:05
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DocScrutinizerCSD is so oooooout I dunno how many of the carriers even offer it, for inbound calls19:06
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DocScrutinizerjust one thing that's even more out: fax over GSM19:06
DocScrutinizerthink that one never took off19:07
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, i used it a couple of times19:08
DocScrutinizerhell, nowadays modems don't even come with a proper comprehensive AT cmdset19:08
DocScrutinizermost of then don't know about CSD anymore19:08
Arkenoiactually once i used it to send a real fax and another time i just wanted to print a document from my Nokia 9110 and it was the easiest way to send it to a nearby fax :-)19:09
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DocScrutinizerI'm not sure whether BB5 in N900 supports it19:09
Arkenoie90 was the first communicator with fax support removed19:10
DocScrutinizerand even more doubtable whether ISI supports it19:10
ArkenoiI guess most android phones do support CSD19:11
Arkenoias Marlinspike's cryptophone uses it19:11
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DocScrutinizerall those cryptophones probably use massivlely tweaked GSM codecs19:12
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DocScrutinizerwhich could be a smart thing, if you manage to implement it transparent ans seamless, like ZRTP19:13
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DocScrutinizerseveral modems use a GSM codec in "userland" and send the raw data to modem19:14
Arkenoii want minmal implementation to speak zRTP with generic SIP over wifi or 3g and (ideally) to be interoperable with desktop zrtp/srtp implementations19:15
DocScrutinizererr to TX, for that namespace19:15
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DocScrutinizershould be feasible19:15
Arkenoisupporting CSD and 2G/low bandwidth networks may be next task19:15
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* SpeedEvil wonders how many weeks of one-time-pad you can get on a 16G usd19:17
* MohammadAG wonders how hard it'd be to shove 3G video call support on the N90019:17
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, alot, it was my idea for most paranoid people who believe government guys broke all pk crypto years ago :-)19:18
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SpeedEvilOne time pad is easier for governments to break.19:19
ArkenoiMohammadAG, 3g video sucks anyways, almost never works internationally etc etc19:19
SpeedEvilConstruct desired description, xor with logged data to find key.19:19
MohammadAGArkenoi, still doesn't answer my question :)19:20
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, if it is used properly, it is never reused, so finding "key" is useless.19:20
Arkenoithe real problem is it is easy to have a key agreement for two communicating entities, but it is much more complicated  to scale it further19:22
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matthias-hey guys19:24
matthias-a quick question...19:24
matthias-I'm thinking of setting up a server on my N90019:24
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matthias-with USB attached storage, any opinions?19:24
matthias-or advice ?19:24
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SpeedEvilUse a USB floppy, and a external display to prompt the user which disk to put in.19:24
* SpeedEvil used a floppy yesterday.19:25
matthias-I've got a few issues so far, how to attach a network device AND the charger at the same time, and two - will there be any fs restrictions?19:25
matthias-SpeedEvil: Usb floppy ?19:25
SpeedEvilIt was in an eyesight testing unit that I was using.19:25
matthias-ah, ur not talking to me ;]19:25
SpeedEvilmatthias-: FS restrictions?19:25
Arkenoii guess there should be usb-to-scsi adapters that look like mass storage, so you may find 8" floppy with scsi interface..19:26
matthias-SpeedEvil: well, ive got them on the OSX FS19:26
matthias-thinking of size/speed restrictions19:26
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SpeedEvilmatthias-: There are no real restrictions.19:28
SpeedEvilIf you can mount it on a normal PC, you can use it.19:28
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SpeedEvilI haven't used it though, I can't comment on speed.19:28
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nidOI dont get the fascination of using the n900 as a wired server19:32
nidOwhats wrong with just using a pogoplug or something, if you want to do it small and cheap19:32
FauxFauxPogoplug with 32gb of storage, decent cpu and ram?  How much?19:33
DocScrutinizer17 megatons19:34
nidOpogoplug = £50 odd, a 32gb memory stick is, what, another £4019:34
SpeedEvilFauxFaux: 32G USB key plus pogoplugprice19:34
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SpeedEvilOr old 32G hard drive - damn near free.19:34
matthias-it's not a fascination19:34
matthias-i dont have anything else19:34
matthias-to set it up on :)19:34
matthias-and have a brand new n900 in a box19:34
nidOso you're using a £400 mobile device not meant to function as a wired server rather than a £50 device that is?19:35
DocScrutinizererrr, you could sell it. Or I'll swap it for a really nice pogoplug19:35
matthias-i could sell it, tho cba to post it19:35
matthias-and i bought it for £499 :<19:35
DocScrutinizerwell, that's just too silly19:35
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SpeedEvilIt's really easy to post.19:36
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matthias-dont have time19:36
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matthias-is there any thread on talk.maemo19:36
matthias-about selling phones?19:36
DocScrutinizerI'll send a UPS dude19:36
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nidOtheres a whole subforum about it19:37
nidOebay and amazon have also existed for a number of years19:37
SpeedEvilEbay works well.19:37
DocScrutinizerot - even better - I drive over to netherlands and fetch it myself. s/fetch/snatch/19:38
nidOalso, if this n900 is brand new in a box, it could just be returned.19:38
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SpeedEvilI just bought a cube of insulation that's about my height in all dimensions, cheap.19:38
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matthias-DocScrutinizer: im in the UK ;]19:38
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matthias-nidO: nah, i bought it like over a year ago19:39
matthias-when it came out19:39
DocScrutinizeryou're cheating19:39
jacekowskii have a microusb charger19:39
jacekowskiand i'm not sure if it has data pins shorted correctly19:39
DocScrutinizerwho hasn't19:39
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jacekowskiwhere was that sysfile that could tell if it's shorted or not19:40
DocScrutinizerwell, with N900 you got a pretty decent tester device19:40
DocScrutinizerfind /sys -name charger19:40
matthias-hmm, ok ill sell it then.19:41
matthias-we've got like 4 or 5 left.19:41
matthias-so, ill sell it and buy a mac mini then19:42
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DocScrutinizerI'd happily take 3 of them to remove your burdon of storing them19:42
DocScrutinizerI'll even pay the UPS dude who'll pick them up wherever they collect dust at your site19:43
matthias-Just putting it on ebay19:43
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jacekowskido you hav elink to that bqsomething script19:44
jacekowskithat could tell if it's charging or not19:44
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DocScrutinizersure, mompls19:44
jacekowskior hmm, it needs bme to be stopped doesn't it?19:44
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DocScrutinizer"special edition" ;-P19:48
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_0x47Hello, I'm new to the Internet. What can I do to make someone reply to my threads on
nidOmake your topic interesting enough for people to want to.19:51
_0x47Some porn inside?19:52
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_0x47I think, maybe no one really knows how Maemo works...19:53
AsiQueMohammadAG: is your media player clone (sorry don't know it's name) hosted in gitorious?19:53
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MohammadAGand a binary
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_0x47O btw (serious question): Is there a way to find out how much each application uses on the rootfs? Because I can't install no more apps :(19:54
nidOtheres a script on the wiki19:54
_0x47thx, let me check19:54
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AsiQueMohammadAG: and another question... did you added your kinetic scrollong to the cssu?19:56
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AsiQueis the media player going to be part of the ssu?19:57
MohammadAGAsiQue, yes to the first question19:57
MohammadAGactually, after my "release" of that on tmo, it was made configurable upstream, I changed the default value in the CSSU19:58
MohammadAGwhen it replaces all functions of the stock player, yes19:58
AsiQuetnx... good to know, because i feel it's laggy more then before...19:58
AsiQueand about the mp... tnx, waiting fot that :-)19:58
matthias-if anyone is interested19:59
MohammadAGtbh, I could release 0.1 for songs only, just need to find a way to find the current playlist20:00
MohammadAG(internet radio works, not via a playlist though)20:00
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nidOwhy swapping for a mac mini?20:00
matthias-cause i want it as a server20:01
AsiQuematthias-: add international shipping and they will sell faster :-)20:01
nidOyou think you need a mac mini to do something you were planning to do on an n900?20:01
matthias-AsiQue: really ?20:02
matthias-nidO: no, but i like it20:02
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matthias-well it will do it anyway ;]20:02
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MohammadAGmatthias-, sure, just make sure you get the money before shipping20:03
AsiQuewell you have paypal for that...20:03
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MohammadAGPayPal once said the payment was complete for me, when I checked the credit card statement I wasn't billed20:03
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MohammadAGthe seller already sent me the item, when I contacted him he said he never received the money20:04
MohammadAGin short, PayPal can make mistakes20:04
matthias-had same thing20:04
matthias-actually sent the item20:04
matthias-and paypal refunded the guy20:05
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MohammadAGthey didn't refund me, they just didn't take the money the first time20:05
matthias-and parcelforce is £2520:05
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matthias-for worldwide delivery20:05
AsiQuedidn't happen to me... and i order alot :-!20:05
MohammadAGI'm not an asshole (at least most of the times), so I sent him the money manually20:05
AsiQueand ofcourse shit happens... but overall they'e better then direct payment20:06
AsiQueMohammadAG, is there an xterm or something else that can run inside the SDK, i want to change some gconf values...20:07
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MohammadAGAsiQue, /scratchbox/login?20:08
MohammadAGthen run commands in that shell20:08
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AsiQuethat what i thought... just wanted a confermation... tnx20:10
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matthias-hmm maybe smth like this?20:18
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matthias-see i'd want smth like this:20:19
matthias-or ven better20:20
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nidOif you just want to host some basic shit you were planning on hosting on an n900, you still wont beat a pogoplug (£50) plus 250GB external hdd (£33)20:23
matthias-ive got 6gb of external hdds20:24
matthias-gb -> tb20:24
nidOthen, a pogoplug for £50 and nothing else.20:24
matthias-what's a pogoplug?20:24
nidOa little arm embedded machine designed to share usb drives through a web interface over the net20:25
nidOthat takes about half an hour to modify to run a full lamp setup20:25
matthias-nidO: why not then just a NAS -> USB adapter20:26
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matthias-and for £50-80 i can get some box with full ftp/http services20:26
matthias-bla bla bla20:26
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Sc0rpiusso who wouldn't make that deal with $1 billion front..20:26
roy654_hi folks, a quick question, while installing Community SSU, it asks me to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr, is that normal?20:27
Sc0rpiusmp-fremantle-community-pr should replace mp-fremantle-generic-pr20:27
roy654_Sc0rpius: great, thanks20:28
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matthias-nidO: and it wouldnt see it as a network device20:29
Sc0rpiusthough it shouldn't "ask" about that right MohammadAG20:29
MohammadAGwhat's the metal part on the back cover?20:29
nidOmatthias-: i'm not sure what you're asking me20:29
MohammadAGyeah Sc0rpius, was checking the script to see if i added that at some point lol20:30
matthias-MohammadAG: if i plug a hdd to that pogoplug.20:30
matthias-and the one for striming vido is $20020:31
matthias-i meant nidO ^^ not MohammadAG20:31
nidOyou can plug whatever storage you want into it20:31
matthias-nidO: i mean if I plug it into it it wont be a NAS20:32
matthias-well, it will be, but i need some drivers for it from what I unerstand20:32
matthias-and it cant stream a video to hdmi without decoding.20:32
matthias-to -> via, only back through router20:33
matthias-and for that you need gigabit eth, or at least 801.11n20:33
nidOi've no clue whatsoever what you're asking me. if you want the device to serve content from a nas, you just access the content over the network, thats the whole point of a nas20:34
matthias-So, i dont buy this plug bonanzna.20:34
matthias-nidO: yeah, you access it over the network, but you need some different drivers. what's more is that it wouldnt play 1080p mkv's20:35
nidOwhy do you imagine you need drivers to access a nas over a network?20:35
matthias-for it to be seen as NAS you need some extra drivers, just saw it on their website20:36
nidOand why would you be needing a server device to play mkv's - you wanted a server, and a pogoplug cant play anything atall as it has no video adaptor or output20:36
nidOmatthias- - thats for the pogoplug itself to function as a nas using whatever das storage is connected to it20:36
matthias-yeah it's called video and it's without any video adaptor20:37
nidOtheyre servers.20:37
nidOthe pogoplug video is used to stream vido content over the net to a remote location20:37
matthias-ah, well yeah then I dont see it being anything better than a nas -> usb adaptor20:38
matthias-I mean, for me and my intended use20:38
nidOyou've totally lost me. the capability of each account type you get on pogoplug's service and whether the account can stream video is totally irrelevant if you're modifying the device to run a lamp setup to use it as a server20:39
matthias-dont like it! :>20:39
matthias-i'd rather this:20:40
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nidOwhat's that going to do for you?20:41
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matthias-attach my deviced to a network.20:42
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matthias-and you cant firewall the pogoplug, dont trust it!20:44
steve___nidO: just walk away from this one.20:44
steve___ignorance always wins20:44
matthias-its not ignorance, its being right.20:46
matthias-it shares the file, over http somewhow, I'd have to open ports20:46
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matthias-and i wouldnt be able to fully control it, -> fail20:46
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nidOmatthias-: for about the billionth time20:47
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nidOthe whole point of getting a pogoplug would be to just put a standard lamp install on it, you're the one that wanted a server20:47
nidOand yeah steve___ I think i'm probably done with this one20:48
matthias-anyway, i'd rather a mac mini.20:48
matthias-and install centos or fbsd on it.20:49
matthias-Dont understand that pogoplug, and it cant be good.20:49
nidOits a 1.2ghz arm computer running a linux install, but with a power input and a nic.20:49
nidOie, its what you had with an n900, but without needing to run everything through a microusb port.20:50
matthias-Can I wipe it and install w/e i want on it ?20:50
nidOand costs 1/10th as much20:50
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nidOyet again:20:50
matthias-ah, ok.20:50
matthias-Now i get it.20:50
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matthias-nidO: and what would be the hardware difference between the different pogoplugs?20:51
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matthias-as i cant find any 'spec'20:51
matthias-apart from wifi that i can see here20:52
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matthias-nidO: cause that's what i thought:
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matthias-and you can get that for $2020:53
nidOmatthias-: basically, the only difference is the cheap one has no wifi, afaik other than that theyre the same]20:54
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roy654_Sc0rpius: it doesn't "ask" normally, but i have pinned down my apt preferences to Extras, that's why it HAM "ask"ed if it's ok21:05
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AsiQueis there a way to restor scratchbox to its default?21:19
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pupnikoh copying files to mounted usb device takes no cpu whee22:12
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timeless_w7ipjoin #mercurial22:18
* timeless_w7ip sighs22:18
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pupniktimeless_w7ip: i keep going back to your browser.  trying other stuff is fun but they don't work as well for me22:29
* timeless_w7ip nods22:29
timeless_w7ipit isn't perfect, but perfect is the enemy of good22:30
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pupnikso true!22:33
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wizkoderhy everbody22:36
wizkoderI just updated my qt creator and the N900 as target platform disappeared. how do I get it back?22:36
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pupnikdunno, restore from backup22:38
wizkoderin the setup I can still set the pw for usb connection to the device. but I can only select the simulator22:40
pupnikmaybe qt creator has dropped n900 support22:40
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Sc0rpiusthat's what I'm thinking as well22:43
wizkodermaybe there is a way to setup N900 as target again?22:45
pupniki never used it22:46
pupnik  humanoid robot facial expressions22:50
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pupniki wish for a bigger n900.  that screen is just so small23:07
korhojoathe nPad23:07
pupnikit's 9cm diagonal - 12cm would still fit in pocket23:09
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Arkenoiwell, what do you think about maemo/meego beyond nokia? given someone is willing to sponsor a port to a mtk or qualcomm custom-made "chinese" phone?23:12
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pupniki'm afraid maemo has too much closed stuff23:13
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Arkenoipupnik, mostly hardware-related, if we drop nokia it should not be an issue23:14
Arkenoimost other things are replaceable23:14
pupniklemme ask the guy who knows23:14
pupnikhe doesn't know :)23:17
pupnikheh did you see this?
Sc0rpiusSebastian Nyström - Nokia's new Head of MeeGo, Qt and WebKit23:18
Sc0rpiuswhat would be the point of that23:18
pupniki think there's a good portion of nokia that still wants an alternative to MS23:19
Sc0rpius4.1" is kinda tiny23:19
Sc0rpiusI would like a Maemo 7" tablet23:19
pupniki'd rather have ~5"23:19
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SpeedEvilI want ~35"23:19
pupnikSc0rpius: talk to Smoku - he has meego running on the archos 7" tablet23:19
SpeedEvilAnd no heavier than about 350g23:19
pupnikarchos 7.0 is 33og23:19
SpeedEvilMore sanely.23:19
Sc0rpiusthat would be nice too pupnik23:20
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Sc0rpiusI've heard those Archos tablets are nice23:20
SpeedEvilThe ipad 2 is a nice bit of hardware.23:20
pupniki miss the keyboard though23:20
Sc0rpiusApple = crap23:20
SpeedEvilI would want a keyboard though.23:20
pupnika tablet-only thing is like "ok i can watch movies"23:20
pupnikwhereas the n900 in the hand is actually usable in shell23:20
pupnikyour thumbs don't obscure screen23:21
Sc0rpiustablets are nice for Skype, web browsing and email READING (not composing)23:21
SpeedEvilIpad with a clip-on keyboard.23:21
Sc0rpiusso they are nice devices to have in your nightstand before sleep23:21
pupnikprecisely Sc0rpius23:21
Arkenoiwell, there are some guys who are interested in making a real opensource phone.23:21
Arkenoimuch better than nokia could offer ever23:21
Sc0rpiusI have a Lenovo Ideapad netbook in my nightstand23:21
SpeedEvilArkenoi: Low quantity phones are _HARD_23:21
Sc0rpiusbut sometimes I don't turn it now since using the N900 is faster23:22
SpeedEvilArkenoi: To make a n900 class phone, you are looking at a large slice of $1m.23:22
SpeedEvilProbably over 100%23:22
pupnikseems cheap even23:22
SpeedEvilThis is neglecting the software.23:22
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, i just played a but with android based iphone clone. it is damn impressive for its < $200 price range.23:22
Sc0rpiusI thought the Nexus One was a real opensouce phone23:22
Sc0rpiustoo bad it runs Android23:22
SpeedEvilArkenoi: Sure.23:22
ArkenoiI guess as those clones are countless they must be pretty low budget each23:23
SpeedEvilArkenoi: Now convince a maker to give you hardware specs, and supply blank ones.23:23
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, that's what they are going to do.23:23
SpeedEvilThe chinese industry is even worse at openness thanapple.23:23
SpeedEvilIn general.23:23
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, i know. it must be totally dependant on communication skills: if it already does run some flavor of linux, why not open the whole thing?23:24
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Sc0rpiusI would like a Linux tablet.  That includes Maemo/Meego23:24
Sc0rpiusbut Android sucks hard even with the Task Killer App23:24
SpeedEvilA n900 tablet would be quite easy.23:25
SpeedEvilJust replace the screen.23:25
ArkenoiSoC specs are pretty much open already? so there should not be many closed components?23:25
Arkenoiyou may change imei with mere AT command, it's nice23:25
SpeedEvilArkenoi: In some ways true - in practice, it can geta whole lot more involved.23:25
Arkenoidual gsm radio is standard there as well23:26
pupnikSpeedEvil: the archos gen8 tablets are omap3 - basically n900s23:28
pupnikbut no 3g, no keyboard23:28
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Sc0rpius3G in a tablet is not important to me since I don't have any intentions to take it outside23:31
keriothen why not use a real laptop23:31
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Sc0rpiusthe N900 is already great on that and having 2 devices on the road is bad23:31
keriowhich is *vastly* better?23:31
Sc0rpiuslaptops are hot and heav23:31
Sc0rpiusnot a nice device to take it with you to the kitchen, bathroom, and minutes before sleep23:32
keriowell, i have a lap and multiple tables in my home23:32
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kerioheh, what do you know, i *am* minutes before sleep and i'm on my laptop23:32
kerioon my bed23:32
Sc0rpiuslaptops are for serious working, tablets are for consulting info, tablets are not supposed to replace laptops23:32
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Sc0rpiusI would like to talk via Skype and walk through the house.  With a laptop that is annyoing23:33
keriobluetooth headphones23:33
Sc0rpiuswith the N900 + headset is great23:33
kerioalso n900, yeah23:33
Sc0rpiusbluetooth is just 10m and after 5m you can't hear a thing23:33
timeless_w7ipSc0rpius: nokia needs people to head things23:33
Sc0rpiusa quick read of in the kitchen while drinking a coffee = laptop sucks at that23:34
timeless_w7ipSebastian came from Qt land23:34
timeless_w7ipQt land hosts Nokia's WebKit, so giving him ownership is logical23:34
Sc0rpiusyeah but what I meant is23:34
keriowtf, how can you browse reddit on a tabled23:34
Sc0rpiusNokia is cleary don't giving a f@#$ about Meego/QT/Maemo/Symbian23:34
Sc0rpiusso I don't understand this move23:34
timeless_w7ipNokia MeeGo losts its leader and needed someone, since MeeGo is built around Qt, using the Qt leader here too is also logical23:34
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keriomy average number of open tabs when browsing reddit is like 3523:34
timeless_w7ipthey're all supposedly open source based projects23:34
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timeless_w7ipsc0rpius: actually, writing simple to moderate email isn't bad either23:36
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Sc0rpiusquick composing23:36
SpeedEvilArkenoi: Dual GSM - however - not 3G. Also - changing IMEI by AT command is illegal in the UK, and opens the seller up to all sorts of hastle.23:37
Sc0rpiuslike "Yeah I'll take care of this tomorrow" heh23:37
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SpeedEvil(Striclty speaking, it's not illegal, it's illegal to sell after you realise that it's being use for nefarious acrtirvity)23:37
Sc0rpiusanyway I don't have a tablet (I have a netbook)23:37
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, we do not care about that. selling the device via mail order is just ok :-)23:37
* timeless_w7ip is using a Lenovo Ideapad :)23:37
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Sc0rpiusoh me too :)23:38
timeless_w7ipsc0rpius: so...23:38
timeless_w7ipnokia cares about money23:38
Sc0rpiusnot right now but I have one, a S10-223:38
Sc0rpiusit's in my nightstand23:38
timeless_w7ipSymbian is used by nokia to make devices, and devices when sold make money23:39
timeless_w7ipif nokia doesn't ship Symbian devices this year, it loses money on whatever it has done w/ Sybmian23:39
timeless_w7ipwhich would be bad23:39
timeless_w7ipsimilarly, nokia has invested in meego, and needs to ship a product to make money on its investment23:39
Sc0rpiusalso don't forget Nokia is still the king of low-end devices that can't have WP723:39
Sc0rpiusactually the Meego thing is more contractual than looking to make money23:40
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Sc0rpiusthey are bound legally to release at least 1 Meego device this year23:40
timeless_w7ipafaik that's incorrect23:40
timeless_w7ipthe word you'd want would be 'contractually'23:40
timeless_w7ipbut i don't believe that's teh case23:40
Sc0rpiusotherwise Intel would sue (that's what I've heard)23:41
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: but i don't believe that's the case23:41
Sc0rpiusyeah that contractually (my english is bad)23:41
timeless_w7ipi haven't seen any contracts, and if i had, i almost certainly wouldn't be able to speak on the subject (yay NDAs!)23:41
timeless_w7ipbut i don't think you're right23:42
timeless_w7ipand i suspect i'm in a better position to know than you are23:42
Sc0rpiuswell that might be the case, I just read stuff in the web23:42
Sc0rpiusI'm not involved with Nokia/Intel23:42
SpeedEviltimeless_w7ip: Do the NDAs time-out - can you talk after X years?23:44
timeless_w7ipspeedevil: hrm, dunno23:44
SpeedEvilnvm - just idly wondering.23:44
timeless_w7ipgenerally after a certain point some things become public knowledge23:44
* SpeedEvil puts down the 2023 calendar and chloroform.23:44
timeless_w7ipand you can comment on public knowledge23:44
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timeless_w7ipgenerally other parts of contracts only last a couple years past employment23:45
timeless_w7ipso you could probably say "group X did stupid thing Y" a couple of years after you leave the relevant employers23:45
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Sc0rpiusI still think Intel should release a device of their own with an Intel Atom or something23:46
Sc0rpiusbut since Intel doesn't build devices he has to have a partnership with somebody that does it23:47
timeless_w7ipit would be bad if intel made its own devices, because it would scare away potential vendors23:49
Sc0rpiusit would scare them away if they get ZTE or something weird as a partner23:50
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pupnikatom/x86 sucks :/23:52
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Sc0rpiussince I have a netbook, I like it23:53
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