IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-03-06

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DassuWhat would you guys recommend for listening WMA internet radio?00:16
SpeedEvilGood speakers.00:16
Dassu(mplayer can do that but has awful UI)00:16
DassuSpeedEvil: The maemo media player does not support WMA nor (afaik) does MediaBox.00:16
SpeedEvilIsn't there gmplayer?00:16
SpeedEvilI haven't used it though.00:17
javispedroDassu: are you sure the builtin media player does not support wma?00:17
* javispedro 's pretty sure it does, in fact I remember listening to an wma stream once...00:17
Dassujavispedro: it says "Unknown audio format"00:18
javispedroPackage: gstreamer0.10-wma Maintainer: someone@nokia.com00:18
javispedroso yes, it should.00:18
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javispedrodivan: there?00:19
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DassuShould that provide a ffwmav2 codec?00:20
pupnikneither here nor there00:20
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javispedroDassu: no, that would be gstreamer-ffmpeg00:20
VenemoZogG_laptop: if I can get that media server thingy to install on my laptop, I may be able to help00:21
Dassuand Maemo media player should support that?00:21
VenemoZogG_laptop: although not today; probably tomorrow evening00:21
javispedroDassu: if you install it, yes... it probably will come with the "extra decoders support" package on extras00:22
DassuI have it installed00:22
Dassuhttp:// <- here's the stream btw00:23
javispedroI can't reach the server.00:24
SpeedEvilI also can't reach the server.00:24
BCMMme neither00:24
BCMMnor does it return pings00:24
BCMMnor does nslookup identify a hostname for it00:25
Dassujavispedro: I guess it is only for fins. Damnit00:25
Dassuin other words: it works for me on Desktop00:25
* Dassu tries to find english wma station and to experiment00:26
javispedroyou might want to try installing gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg ... however, as said, the wma codec should be there; maybe the n900 also hasn't access to the station.00:26
javispedro*should be there already on stock n900.00:27
Dassudude, I have it installed.00:28
javispedroI just found something that is terribly, terribly funny and however I am not able to explain it because of legal issues :(00:28
javispedroand yes it is maemo related.00:28
SpeedEvilYou can PM it to me, and I can claim I found it out. :)00:29
Dassujavispedro: my n900 has access to that server through mplayer00:29
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javispedroDassu: ah well, ran out of ideas, probably nokia's wma codec is being preffered over ffmpeg's one and nokia can't parse the stream or something.00:29
javispedros/nokia/fluendo (seemingly)00:30
* pupnik laffs at locking00:33
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divanjavispedro, ping00:38
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I think you misunderstood that - don't you want to explain to us where you looked at when you got that puzzled. We might find a better explanation ;-D00:38
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SpeedEvilI can confirm that the story is _really_ funny. But alas can't share it.00:39
SpeedEvil(he diddn't really PM me)00:39
javispedrodivan: see pm00:39
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lcukJavisPedro just looked at my twitterprofile page :O00:40
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: we already knew WP7 is a maemo with a special theme - that's not any funny anymore00:41
javispedrocold cold00:42
DocScrutinizerall the closed maemo blobs are stolen from minix and actually must get GPL'd, also nothing new00:43
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DocScrutinizerthat's why the killed maemo and started on meego - after all00:44
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javispedrogetting warmer (it's indeed something about blob), but still pretty much cold =)00:45
javispedro* a blob00:45
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DocScrutinizerthe next one posting a sentence with "flash" gets kicked00:46
mikki-kunhm, sounds like a dare... *grabbing some popcorn and enjoying the show*00:47
ZogGwhat is qt version we have on maemo?00:47
DocScrutinizermove one, move on. Nothing to see here00:47
ZogGdoes qt-4.7.2 iso ut already?00:47
* ZogG is never gonna get used to bed based distors00:48
javispedro"bed based distros"?00:48
javispedrosounds like something I would want to use.00:48
DocScrutinizerbed based di stores00:49
ZogGdeb based distros =)00:49
ZogGis there anything except apt-cache search?00:49
DocScrutinizeryeah, rm -rf00:49
pupnikyou can install apps without using apt00:50
javispedrothere's also
pupnikin fact we could have a superfast program installer with dpkg00:50
DocScrutinizerand locate, and google of course ;-P00:50
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DocScrutinizerjust dpkg doesn't care at all about dependencies00:51
DocScrutinizerand I guess building the complete deps-tree is what takes time00:51
ZogGDocScrutinizer, i got this app requiring qt 4.7.200:51
ZogGand tried to run it00:52
ZogGbut it blinks and get black screen00:52
pupnikthere's something wrong with the data structures being used00:52
ZogGso i think i might miss qt 4.7.2 and have 4.7.1 or something00:52
DantonicN800question:  can the n900 be flashed in such a way to eliminate the user lock password?00:52
ZogGinstalled with ham00:52
pupnikinsertions/deletions into such a tree should be o log(n) where n is the size of the tree, not (n)00:52
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ZogGDantonicN800, emmc flash?00:52
pupnikso we have an embarassing situation from a data-structures and not-suck perspective, DocScrutinizer00:53
DantonicN800didn't work for me00:53
DocScrutinizerpupnik: basically the tree should get downloaded from server, then just prune it00:53
DantonicN800still Wants pw00:53
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Dassu <- can somebody test this url on their maemo media player?00:53
DocScrutinizerDantonicN800: basically no00:54
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DocScrutinizer however00:55
DantonicN800I had the strangest thing happen, it.won't let me enter my code, it's as if the touchscreen doesn't work00:55
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DantonicN800but when I touch it while it's dark it lights up00:56
DantonicN800but i can't digit anything00:56
DantonicN800touch or keyboard00:56
jpala16Dassu: I have that format not supported00:57
DantonicN800ok  I'll check out that link thx00:57
DantonicN800glad my n800 is still operational tho :P00:58
DocScrutinizerDantonicN800: note that you can access the CAL partition that's storing the lockcode as well from e.g meego or any other auxiliary system (rescue initrd for example)00:58
* DocScrutinizer ponders a maemo aux system on uSD, which is patched to not query/check lockcode on bootup, but allows writing to CAL to reset the code01:00
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DocScrutinizerit can't be too hard to patch that mount commands in initscripts to make a copied / on uSD boot and work01:01
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DocScrutinizerI hope there's no closed blob checking for fs-type of rootfs01:02
DocScrutinizeror physical device01:03
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sgiesslhi. does anyone know if it's possible to put apps into the maemo extras repository when they are available in the ovi store at the same time? I would like to offer a repository for Quassel2Go ( which has quicker turnaround times than ovi01:04
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javispedrothat's a good question I guess. Any limitation would probably come from the Ovi side.01:05
DocScrutinizerI wouldn't see what's stopping any FOSS app from going into extras, once it got the 10 votes of QA01:05
javispedro(seeing it's a GPLd app, I'd usually say ditch Ovi and go extras only)01:05
javispedrounless you have good reason to be on Ovi ...01:05
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DocScrutinizerwell, enable customers to pay for it ;-D01:06
Dassujpala16: k, thanks, so its not just me :P01:06
crashanddie_there's one thing I don't get01:06
crashanddie_Does Ovi provide source code downloads?01:06
DocScrutinizerthere are users who thing a program you paid for is worth more than a FOSS one01:06
kerioweird, it's usually the very opposite01:07
javispedrokerio: on this channel, sure. on the real world...01:07
crashanddie_not quite, but then again.01:07
keriothis channel is in the real world01:07
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javispedrothat is probably one of the best points I've heard today.01:07
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DantonicN800so i could save it by installing nitdroid?01:07
crashanddie_because, if Ovi store doesn't provide source code downloads... Isn't it incompatible with the GPL?01:07
bistongood evening01:08
bistonhas anyone experienced weird transitions after installing the 'CSSU transitions tuner' ?01:08
crashanddie_same way VLC has been pulled from the iTunes AppStore?01:08
crashanddie_biston: I'm guessing that's the point of the app?01:08
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bistonnah that's not what i mean, let me tell you what i'm going through01:08
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keriocrashanddie_: the problem was that you couldn't run your own compiled VLC from source01:09
javispedrocrashanddie_: actually, the official reason for VLC was that the App Store licenses restricts you from sharing the application again.01:09
bistonin my case i can see the next desktop overlapping when i slide01:09
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: obviously01:09
kerioer, yeah, you couldn't share your compiled VLC01:09
DocScrutinizer(illegit ovi)01:09
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crashanddie_And I'm pretty sure the Ovi licence prevents you from sharing your downloads with others01:10
bistonin more details, i have conversations inbox widget on desktop 1, omweather widget on desktop 2. if i'm on desktop 1 and i slide to desktop 2 i can see the omweather widget before desktop-transition is done01:10
bistonand vice versa when switching from desktop 2 to desktop 101:10
javispedrowhich all goes to my first point, which is: if its GPL, ditch Ovi.01:10
crashanddie_biston: post on the tmo thread, you're more likely to get a decent response01:10
crashanddie_biston: #maemo is to the Maemo Community what 4chan is to the Internet.01:11
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: you'd need to check exact wording of OVI ToS01:11
bistonwell i thought since cssu devs all login to here ...01:11
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: I cba01:11
crashanddie_biston: you want #maemo-ssu then ;)01:11
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bistonah. thank you for that01:12
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javispedrosee? this channel is not the real world. it is 4chan!01:12
crashanddie_actually, let me rephrase that01:12
crashanddie_#maemo is to the Maemo Community what /b/ is to 4chan.01:13
Dassuwoot finally. FOudn the solution for wma radio not playing. For some reason playlists report urls as http:// when as they are in fact mms:// when I changet http:// to mms:// the radio magically started playing!01:13
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* javispedro feels slightly insulted, but quickly forgets and continues posting cat images01:13
DocScrutinizerDassu: nice find01:14
sgiesslthanks for your answers01:14
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Dassu:) thanks01:15
crashanddie_Jaffa: I tried editing MWKN, but my brain is not managing to write coherent sentences... Either the topics this month are really difficult, or I'm out of writing for the day.01:15
sgiesslI think it's ok to put it into ovi. from ovi side there are only limitation with symbian signed apps (when signed for free from
crashanddie_Jaffa: will try again tomorrow morning or something.01:15
sgiesslbesides, quassel2go takes part in a contest sponsored by nokia and which requires 1) ope source and 2) submission :)01:16
crashanddie_that doesn't mean it's legal01:16
javispedroit would be nokia-style embarrasing if it weren't.01:16
sgiesslcrashanddie_: yeah01:16
sgiessljavispedro: hehe :)01:16
javispedroplease violate the GPL to win this contest!01:17
javispedromaybe it's all a plot to force you to use BSD style licenses =)01:17
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sgiessljavispedro: why violate the GPL?01:18
crashanddie_In other news, I may just have managed to convert my company to GPL01:18
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DocScrutinizerDassu: how do you insert that URL to the playlist?01:18
crashanddie_Apparently, version 3 of our ACD server might be licenced as GPL :)01:18
javispedrosgiessl: by forcing you to a) make your app GPL b) publish it without the source on ovi =)01:19
javispedroeither way01:19
javispedroif you're the sole copyright owner of the app, you can just say "gpl with exceptions" and ship whatever you want wherever you want while not allowing anyone else.01:19
sgiessljavispedro: what requirement do you mean by "forcing me to publish it without source on ovi"?01:20
crashanddie_" submission"01:21
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sgiesslI don't think it's a requirement of the GPL to ship every binary with source code attached01:21
DocScrutinizerit kinda is01:21
javispedrothat, or written offer.01:21 submission doesn't mean it's forbidden to publish source code01:21
sgiessljavispedro: the app comes with an about dialog including the license01:22
jpala16sorry, noob fault01:22
* javispedro is not a lawyer, but guesses that's ok.01:22
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javispedroafter all, as per the iphone-vlc predecent, nobody complained about how they distributed the source.01:23
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DocScrutinizerthe appstore VLC case was about ToS of appstore forbid sharing of the downloaded apps01:23
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crashanddie_neither did we, sgiessl brought that up01:25
DocScrutinizerthere's been a link to the rationale why FSF(?) made apple take down VLC01:25
DocScrutinizerhere in this chan, a few days ago01:25
crashanddie_not FSF01:25
crashanddie_a french dude01:25
crashanddie_the lead in VLC01:25
crashanddie_because he's an IP holder of VLC, he could make the claim to Apple01:26
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crashanddie_regardless, I have a jailbroken iPod touch, with VLC01:26
sgiesslI would be interested in links which contain details01:26
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sgiesslIIRC the thing about VLC was specifically related to the Apple app store. because Apple forbids to publish apps in other places01:27
crashanddie_what's his name01:27
crashanddie_Remi Denis-Montcourt01:27
sgiesslit's different with ovi in that you are perfectly allowed to do this01:27
crashanddie_or something01:27
crashanddie_are you?01:27
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crashanddie_You're not allowed to redistribute say... Angry Birds01:28
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javispedro.... angry birds is not gpl.01:28
* javispedro hides01:28
crashanddie_but what about the Ovi EULA?01:29
RiDhiding behind a huuuuge tree?01:29
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javispedroso, let's read it.01:29
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DassuDocScrutinizer: I just add the mms://*.asf to the address field.01:30
sgiesslcrashanddie_: please anyone give me _specific_ pointers about possible incompatibilities with the GPL. I will re-check the ovi terms when I've got some time01:30
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DassuDocScrutinizer: wait, didn't understand the question.01:31
DocScrutinizerDassu: how do you enter the URL? do you click on it in browser, type it in, or what else?01:31
* sgiessl is going to sleep now.01:32
DassuDocScrutinizer: Well, if you don't have finnish proxy you wont be able to test this but what I did was to download the .asx (playlist first)01:32
javispedro6.Content: You agree: [...] Not to, nor authorize anyone else, make copies, give, sell, resell, [...], piss on the content, [...] , commercially exploit or make the Content available _unless otherwise authorized in the applicable Terms_01:33
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DassuDocScrutinizer: for some wierd ass reason that contained url to even another playlist:
DocScrutinizerDassu: sorry, still obscure. How did you do that?01:33
DocScrutinizerDassu: well, never mind01:34
DassuDocScrutinizer: I type it in just like any other radio stream01:34
DassuDocScrutinizer: Only replaced the http:// with mms://01:34
SpeedEvilNokia doesn't actually bother reading terms and conditions to see if they actually make sense.01:35
SpeedEvilThe PR1.3 upgrade is a prime example.01:35
sgiessljavispedro: IANAL as well, but could it be that "the applicable Terms" are terms specific to the application, ie. the GPL in this case?01:35
javispedrosgiessl: I agree.01:36
DocScrutinizersgiessl: yes01:36
kerioSpeedEvil: like what?01:36
povbotBug 10261: MyNokia Terms and conditions of use on PR1.2 upgrade are incorrect01:37
javispedroah, My Nokia.01:39
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javispedrodid you know I can used media player to play videos? another useful hint from my nokia!01:40
SpeedEvilWho would have guessed!01:41
javispedrofortunatelly, on this country, THEY pay for the SMS.01:41
SpeedEvilI shoul dhave followed up withmy provider, and gotten a refund.01:45
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* SpeedEvil sighs, and wants pictbridge-gadget02:13
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korhojoawhat do you guys do when your router suddenly dies?02:18
pupniklook for the ISP data02:19
pupnikto configure a new router02:19
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SpeedEvilkorhojoa: I kill a chicken.02:24
SpeedEvilOr an OpenReach engineer.02:24
korhojoaI see.02:26
korhojoaI just swapped in a old dd-wrt system02:26
korhojoai don't have a bicycle right now.02:30
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ThreeMmy fork is at service :(02:31
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javispedroI didn't know Intel owned 16% of img tech02:51
javispedro(makers of the sgx chip)02:51
infobotjavispedro meant: (makers of the sgx )02:52
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* pupnik doesn't know if it's time to forgive intel for the 808802:58
BCMMpupnik: while we're still dealing with the mess it left?02:59
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pupnikit made programming unnecessarily hard for kids and newbs in the 80s03:04
pupnikno fun to program close to the metal when the metal is so disgusting03:05
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nox-pupnik, !!03:17
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bash`hi all03:22
bash`I own a WH-701 remote headset, what do I need to make it working with my N900?03:22
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pupnikhi nox-  :) how doodleydo03:28
nox-moin pupnik03:28
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DocScrutinizerbash`!! :-D  Well, sorry but for now it seems WH-701 is unsupported by N900 (if wh701 is that wired multibutton headset)03:31
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DocScrutinizerat least when it comes to the butti03:32
bash`DocScrutinizer: yes is that :( what can I do?03:32
DocScrutinizer(I need to remap CR for my blindtyping execises :-P)03:33
BCMMtalking of hands-frees, anyone got a link to a information about which pin is which?03:33
BCMM(i mean, on the 3.5m jack)03:33
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: simple03:33
DocScrutinizeryou need the detaled version, or the one-line?03:34
DocScrutinizerbash`: there's little you can do03:34
BCMMwhat's the detailed version?03:34
bash`DocScrutinizer: I'm trying to play with dbus...(with no luck)03:34
BCMMi'm planning, vaguely, to turn a broken handsfree for a 3410 and a broken pair of earphones that i liked into a working handsfree for the n89903:35
BCMMn900 rather03:35
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i just need to know which is which, but i'm puzzled as to what else the detailed version could contain03:35
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BCMMunless it includes suitable impedances and how the answer button works03:36
GeneralAntillesI love it when my neighbors forget to turn off their outdoor speakers when they're watching movies.03:36
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pupnikgive em a call03:36
DocScrutinizerBCMM: that's exactly what it has03:36
BCMMi've a feeling i've asked this before, but it is electrically compatible with the 2.5mm hands-free interface from the 3410 and similar old nokias, right?03:37
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure about the pinout, but electrically as in impedance etc yes it is compatible03:38
DocScrutinizermechanically though you are aware it's a 3.5mm plug03:38
bash`DocScrutinizer: do you know how can I see what happen if I press a button on the headset or something like that?03:38
DocScrutinizerbash`: with a Y-cable to attach a decent oscilloscope to the 4 wires from/to headset03:39
* pupnik gets frustraded by 'unlocking'03:39
BCMMDocScrutinizer: yeah, i've got a four-pin 3.5mm plug to play with too03:39
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bash`DocScrutinizer: btw, is unsupported by the hardware or the software?03:40
GeneralAntillespupnik: they just ignore our number.03:40
GeneralAntillesBad relations with the neighbors.03:40
DocScrutinizerbash`: we got no F'ng clue what's going on exactly. Suspicions are it's a serial protocol via mic wire, but it could as well be hidden BT03:40
GeneralAntillesYuppies who moved into a house from 1912 and stripped out everything original to replace it with synthetic materials.03:40
pupnikparabolic dish + microwave oven?03:40
DocScrutinizerbash`: for all I know the N95 has same hw regarding AV-jack03:41
DocScrutinizerbash`: so it's basically sw, though really basic sw like kernel drivers etc03:41
BCMMahh, the button on a simple headset just shorts the mic wire to ground through a resistor; i feel kind silly for wondering about compatibility with older gear now03:42
bash`ok, thanks for the explanation03:42
DocScrutinizerBCMM: forget the resistor03:42
BCMMDocScrutinizer: ?03:42
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DocScrutinizerjust fine03:42
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BCMMi did notice it said "a resistor of less than 100 omhs" or something03:43
DocScrutinizeryes. 0 < 10003:43
DocScrutinizerlooks like a fundamentally true statement03:44
BCMMi know03:44
BCMMi'm just wondering why they bothered03:44
BCMMsince the cheapest sub-100 omh resistor will always be no resistor03:44
DocScrutinizerfor making clear to EE what's the limitations03:45
BCMMoh, i suppose it permits the use of an LED so you know you actually pressed the button03:45
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DocScrutinizerforex, you could calculate if that'll pan out (I can tell you it won't)03:45
BCMMso is there an easy way (sysfs or something) to detect presses of the answer button in software?03:46
DocScrutinizerI think yes. But you first need to enable micbias, otherwise no voltage on mic to short03:46
DocScrutinizerswitching on micbias can be done in ALSA mixer03:47
BCMMso it's typically only watching it during a call or ringing, i guess?03:47
DocScrutinizerthen there should be some /sys/*/*/*/state to poll - or better to wait for kevent03:47
DocScrutinizerprobably you also will see a log line in syslog03:48
DocScrutinizer(though I never checked that)03:48
DocScrutinizerbut regarding the fact you get logs for kbd slide and for tklockswitch...03:49
BCMMi always thought that dmesg for every lock was a bit excessive03:49
DocScrutinizermeh, there's other things that annoy way more03:50
DocScrutinizerlike gabby WLAN03:50
BCMMsyslog would be OK, imho, but clogging up the ring buffer with that seems excessive03:50
DocScrutinizerwell, I do a `>/var/log/syslog` every once in a while - to keep it from eating my rootfs03:51
pupnikare most of the flakey usb connectors on n900 due to solder pulled off?  or a rip in the board trace?03:51
BCMManyway, i'd better find out whether my soldering is up to this before getting any more interested in this03:51
pupnikwith pulled-off solder maybe a heating of the contact iwth an iron would fix03:51
BCMMworking with headphone wire is a pain03:51
GeneralAntillesvalhalla joining Intel.03:52
GeneralAntillesThe TSG is officially one company.03:52
DocScrutinizerpupnik: good question. I guess no one of us has a sufficient sample size to tell03:52
pupnikwhat does that mean GeneralAntilles03:52
GeneralAntillespupnik: my solder pulled off.03:52
pupnikdid you fix it GeneralAntilles ?03:52
GeneralAntillespupnik: Valtteri Halla03:53
GeneralAntillespupnik: no.03:53
GeneralAntillesJust carrying a second battery.03:53
DocScrutinizerhe nuked it :-P03:53
pupnikmine still connects at the right angle03:53
BCMMhow widespread is the USB port problem? common manufacturing defect, or eventual inevitability?03:54
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GeneralAntillesInevitability it seems.03:54
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: do I get this right? They finally managed to keep their elite club clean03:54
DocScrutinizerBCMM: unclear03:55
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: which elite club?03:55
DocScrutinizerwow, that will push forward meego. No doubt03:56
GeneralAntillesOh, yeah.03:56
GeneralAntillesSeems like it.03:56
GeneralAntillesMeeGo Community Council seems more useful by the day.03:56
DocScrutinizerand less likely same time03:57
DocScrutinizeror more impotent03:57
pupnikBCMM: i stumbled over the cable two times (seinding the n900 flying) before it broke03:57
DocScrutinizerpupnik: fair enough :-S03:58
pupnikimo not inevitable03:58
BCMMthanks - i'll avoid that03:58
DocScrutinizerBCMM: I have no problems on two devices with sigma 20 months lifetime03:58
* javispedro 's n900 usb port is still fine, and this is ddp device03:58
SpeedEvilMine too03:59
SpeedEvilNot ddp.03:59
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GeneralAntillesBoth my DDP and my September proto lost their USB ports.03:59
GeneralAntillesTreated gently.03:59
DocScrutinizerBCMM: just make sure you always pull and plug the jack straight in/out, no vanting03:59
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: I got used to pull it out with my fingernails between plug and case, on both sides04:01
DocScrutinizer(small sides)04:01
pupnikyes i used both fingers on either side, then pulled by using both as levers to pull evenly04:01
* javispedro is actually mostly careless with the cable..04:02
* javispedro looks at his n900 usb port, watches all of the dirt and shit there, wonders if that's what keeps the thing in place.04:02
nox-does this affect all hw revisions or just those where the usb plug requires more `force' to push in/pull out than usual?04:03
DocScrutinizerwell I'm also careless, except for using a virtually foolproof procedure. leveraging plug out with your nail against the case is highly unlikely to apply excess sideways force04:03
* pupnik found the n900 very durable04:03
BCMModd, looks to me like the plastic casing prevents leverage anyway...04:04
pupnikfrom the kitchen sink to the oven, it still works :)04:04
nox-pupnik, :)04:04
pupnikexcept for the speakers04:04
DocScrutinizerdon't do this at home, children!!04:04
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: au contraire04:05
pupnikall leverage from the usb cable goes to the connector and board04:06
javispedroof course it is durable, the front bezel is practically made of plastiline04:06
javispedroit absorbs all energy and converts into nice white bits04:06
javispedroas a reminder of those times when your brain's motor coordination engine messed up.04:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: where's that wheed from? :-P04:07
pupnikthe micro-usb cable from nokia has 2-2.2 cm leverage ... not the worst, but i could imagine better04:07
javispedroit's just the result of been hacking for way too much time.04:07
DocScrutinizerpupnik: I'm searching and thinking and planning for way better04:08
DocScrutinizerala with few results so far04:08
pupnikplanning for a usb cable with shorter leverage?04:08
SpeedEvilI have the bits to make it - but they're not here04:09
pupniki would buy one04:09
* DocScrutinizer too04:09
pupnikwith a nice sollbruchstelle maybe even04:09
pupniksometimes german language is just better04:10
DocScrutinizerknow the macbook power connector?04:10
DocScrutinizerbuzzword magnet04:10
javispedroI want a pre-like induction thing ;)04:10
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: wait til my bare PCB arrives04:11
javispedroI also like it at least tries to be a cradle-like thing.04:11
javispedrolike the high end handhelds when they were truly highend04:11
SpeedEvilI had a prototype USB connector with charging.04:12
javispedroinstead of the current crap where you are lucky if they even send you a free replacement stylus.04:12
SpeedEvilPolarised magnetic +5, D+, D-, ground, ESD protected and reverse protected.04:12
DocScrutinizeryeah, they did with my repair \o/04:12
SpeedEvilBut it would need lots of development.04:12
DocScrutinizeractually I consider the whole micro-USB a dead end street. Will go for inductive or simple gold contact pads plus pogopins charging04:14
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pupniknice predictions nox- ... "photographs will be telegraphed from any distance"04:18
BCMMDocScrutinizer: portability...04:18
BCMMcradle+wall-wart will always be bigger than plug+wall-wart04:19
SpeedEvilnox-: When was this?04:19
javispedronox-: pupnik: "American audiences in their theatres will view upon huge curtains before them [...] the progress of battles in the Orient".04:19
pupnik"cameras connected by screens"  ...04:19
DocScrutinizerBCMM: I don't care about portability. It's my device, my rework, my cradle, and I got TWO of those devices04:19
javispedroI guess some stuff never changes ;)04:19
pupnik"store purchases by tube!"04:19
nox-SpeedEvil, 1900 i think04:20
DocScrutinizerooh you mean transportability04:20
DocScrutinizerwell, the USB jack still is there04:20
javispedroBCMM: have you seen the pre cradle?04:20
javispedroBCMM: it's quite small; probably the size of the ac adapter itself.04:20
javispedro(depends on which country ac adapter ;) )04:21
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ""...until the dawn of 2001, a hundered years from now""04:21
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i don't understand what you thought i meant...04:21
BCMMi mean "plugging it in on the train"04:21
DocScrutinizerBCMM: like migration to other devices, platforms, whatever04:21
BCMMoh, interoperability04:22
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: on train I'll use the original Nokia charger with the original N900 micro-USB04:22
BCMMstandardised inductive charging could take off i suppose04:22
BCMMbut it would have to be very widespread to stop people carrying adaptors04:22
SpeedEvilinductive charging? Take off? I have a video on that!04:22
DocScrutinizertaking off literaly I guess :-P04:23
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BCMMi mean, like on every train and built into every table at Starbucks sorta widespread04:23
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BCMMchicken and egg; it'd be like trying to switch to electric cars :)04:24
SpeedEvilOr electric chickens.04:24
DocScrutinizermeh! binary system for ever04:24
javispedrogreat idea: use inductive charging for your electric car!04:24
SpeedEvilAlready exists.04:25
DocScrutinizerI'm not talking about boolean, but about astronomy and fscknf flickr04:25
BCMMit's been done for busses somewhere, i think04:25
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: there's a tram that has inductive power04:25
BCMMmassive inductive charger under the bus stops, you see04:25
DocScrutinizerall along the raols04:25
BCMMDocScrutinizer: why?04:26
BCMMit's on rails anyway, "contactless" is pretty pointless04:26
DocScrutinizerdunno, maybe because they thought it's cheaper than cramming in even more of those 1000F capacitors04:26
javispedroNokia was a member of some inductive charging standarization program iric04:26
nox-except when you want it for ppl to be safe to cross the rails maybe?04:26
SpeedEviljavispedro: Might you be thinking of near-field-comms?04:27
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javispedrono no, i remember it being about power.04:27
DocScrutinizerBCMM: you can't put voltage on rails of a tram :-P Well you can, but I guess it won't earn you a memorial in that town04:27
javispedrofound it -- > own04:28
BCMMyeah, but it's on a fixed route - i can't believe it's cheaper and less disruptive to bury inductive chargers along the entire length of the rail than to put up overheads04:28
nox-DocScrutinizer, what i thought :)04:28
SpeedEvilBCMM: If you put the chargers at the stops, and charge fast, it can work out cheape.r04:29
BCMMyeah, that would make sense04:29
* DocScrutinizer envisions a bike falling and shorting the rails - BRAAAAAZZZZ04:29
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javispedrothen the tram goes over the poor guy --- RUSSSSSHHH04:30
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SpeedEvilInduction chargers are fun too.04:30
SpeedEvilBike falls on its side, and wheels glow white hot.04:30
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: on that tram they crammed the whole roof with goldcaps, to jump little gaps that are unavoidable04:30
SpeedEvilLiFePO4 is adequate for this sort of service.04:31
DocScrutinizerwell, I thought the whole idea was invented after 9 beer04:31
DocScrutinizerbetter build cablecars X-P04:32
BCMMcablecars are awesome04:32
SpeedEvilI want skytran.04:33
BCMM(in very specific geography, if there isn't too much wind)04:33
BCMMbut massively awesome04:33
SpeedEvilPacket switched people!04:33
DocScrutinizerskytran? peoplemover?04:33
SpeedEvilLittle single person maglev rail on street-light type poles.04:33 needs some pics...04:34
SpeedEvil<pretja that unfortunately, they need some actual hardware.04:34
SpeedEvilMore than that04:34
DocScrutinizerthought you talk about peoplemover04:34
SpeedEvilIn principle the amount of energy to move a single person streamlined maglev car can be teeeny04:34
javispedrounfortunately, this skytran thing has one big disadvantage04:34
javispedroaccording to their website it is only able to take you from brooklyn to the nyc Apple store.04:35
javispedrofor the travel back home, Apple is happy to sell you an iBike that works with the iPod wheel as energy source.04:35
SpeedEvilThat is an example, :)04:35
javispedro(obviously ;) )04:36
SpeedEvilPacket switching is an awesome technology, if it could be made to work.04:36
DocScrutinizer  been somewhat involved in bulding that one04:36
SpeedEvilAlong with low energy peronal vehicles.04:36
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nox-DocScrutinizer, reminds me of wuppertal :)04:37
SpeedEvil is fun.04:37
BCMMbicycle monorail04:37
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BCMMwell, cycle at any rate04:38
SpeedEvilLots of litz, and magnets = passive maglev.04:38
SpeedEvilIn principle, you can do horsedrawn maglev.04:38
DocScrutinizernox-: we only did the sw for dortmund and duesseldorf04:39
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DocScrutinizerI know wuppertaler and the elephant04:40
nox-heh yeah04:41
DocScrutinizerthe poor animal04:41
BCMMSpeedEvil: that's really cool, especially the way there is negligible flux in the passenger compartment making your n900 malfunction04:43
BCMMor pacemaker i guess, but meh.04:43
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* javispedro wishes for some meego conference to be held in düsseldorf so that he'd have an excuse to go there and visit the skytrain thing04:46
DocScrutinizergoogle for peoplemover siemens dortmund, another one I contributed04:48
javispedroobviously, a suspended monorail system that's been working since the 19th century gets its first fatal accident on the late nineties04:51
pupnikengineers make nice things happen04:52
DocScrutinizerthis one usually operates on demand04:52
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DocScrutinizersomebody teling "me" he wants a lift, and the next free cabin is there usually in less then 30s (iirc)04:53
DocScrutinizerof course you also can make the thing operate on regular schedule04:55
pupnikwith computers you could have individual railcars04:55
DocScrutinizerfunny parts of the software are things like service vehicle04:55
pupnikwhy ?04:57
DocScrutinizer compare the keyboards to that:
DocScrutinizerbut I think it's actually been HBDUS (duesseldorf) that's conrrolled by 3 M8004:59
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yeah, in fact even Tuffi survived afaik05:07
DocScrutinizer(fatal) don't know of that, suspect a trainsurfer05:08
javispedrosome night shift technician in a hurry did something quite bad, according to wikipedia.05:09
DocScrutinizeryeah, now I remember05:09
javispedroi'm sure his salary was a fraction of their 1900 counterparts...05:10
DocScrutinizerblocked a trackswitch or sth05:10
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: probably the best video:
DocScrutinizerсистема Дюссельдорфа :-D05:21
DocScrutinizerI jsut can't find anymore any pictures of Dortmund command center :-/05:21
DocScrutinizerlooked quite funny with all the DISIT and DS3975 terminals05:22
DocScrutinizerDISIT is kinda like a color terminal with a hardcoded powerpoint graphic that can be highlighted etc. I did parts of that :-D05:23
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* pupnik doesn't understand05:28
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pupnikohh sicomp05:29
DocScrutinizerM80 series05:29
DocScrutinizeractually I think they used M70 ther in Duesseldorf05:30
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pupnikAMBOSS is short for "Allgemeines Modulares Benutzer-Orientiertes Software System"05:30
pupniksiemens must have done lots of govt work05:30
DocScrutinizermeh AMBOSS05:31
DocScrutinizerwe used BS-M05:31
DocScrutinizerthe "hacker edition" of AMBOSS05:31
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DocScrutinizerwith real commandline instead of silly masks05:31
* nox- has dim memories of bs2000...05:32
pupnikoperators must be controlled!05:32
nox-(what a strange name :)05:32
* DocScrutinizer cackles05:32
DocScrutinizeryeah BS2000 was the mainframe version. BS-M was for process controll in realtime05:33
DocScrutinizerBS2000 was quite AMBOSSish though05:34
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* DocScrutinizer wonders why the cryptic acronym ORG-PV doen't want to vanish in his mind05:35
* nox- remembers how its `fs' needed to be kind garbage-collected bc files could only be contiguous or so...05:36
DocScrutinizermust've been something especially disgusting05:36
nox-kind of even05:36
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* pupnik listens to Eric margolis' latest interview05:45
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DocScrutinizeraah, Jack S. Margolis'05:58
DocScrutinizerso who's Eric Margolis?05:59
robbiethe1stHey guys, where should I start looking for a method to use usb-networking to tether my n900 to my linux laptop? Like use the n900's internet(3G, wifi etc) on the laptop?06:00
pupnikDocScrutinizer: a very knowleadgable reporter06:03
yigalrobbiethe1st: it really shouldn't be that difficult06:03
yigalrobbiethe1st: what distribution are you using>06:03
yigalmaybe robbiethe1st decided to do a google search?06:04
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DocScrutinizermaybe he decided to just try it and relized it works OOTB  ;-D06:08
robbiethe1styigal: Sorry, was looking elsewhere. Um, ubuntu-based. DocScrutinizer Sorry, I tried it on my KDE desktop, tried setting all the settings and... it wouldn't connect. When I plugged in the n900, it showed an icon for the device on the network icon... but wouldn't connect.06:09
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robbiethe1stAs such, I decided the best way to do it would be to just do all the provider stuff on the n900(which works), and then just setup a network between it and the PC06:10
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robbiethe1stAlso, it -might- work on Gnome-based ubuntu OOTB, but not on KDE, for some reason06:11
DocScrutinizerI gather you need PK for that . needs forwarding/bridging06:11
robbiethe1stOh, yea. No problem there.06:13
DocScrutinizerthen just follow the instructions about sharing your PC's internet to N900 via USB, just swapped roles ;-D06:14
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DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: tbh it doesn't work here as well - though I thought it's due to my massive messing around with knetworkmanager and manual setup of eth cards and whatnot06:20
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robbiethe1stHm, I'm likely missing a step: I can't ping the other IP from either side over usb006:31
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DocScrutinizerno idea. I never did this via config. I got some scripts on PC (which would be N900 for your case)07:01
DocScrutinizer/sbin/ifconfig $DEV netmask
DocScrutinizer/sbin/route add -host dev $DEV07:02
DocScrutinizerssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@
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DocScrutinizerof course that's not the IPs used for maemo07:03
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DocScrutinizeris a script called neo-net.sh07:05
DocScrutinizerit's for forwarding PC's network to Neo FR, after a local ssh connection is already installed I guess, with above quoted cmds07:08
DocScrutinizerso you have to run sth similar on N900 to forward 3G to PC via USB07:09
DocScrutinizerI dunno if the fact PC is still USB host and N900 still gadget is of any relevance for IP networking07:11
DocScrutinizerI'd guess the "NICs" are symmetric07:12
robbiethe1stI know it's possible to get a basic network working; I've done that before - and I was able to SSH into my n900(at least through BackupMenu)07:12
DocScrutinizeryeah, but in above quoted procedure you'd want to ssh from N900 to PC07:13
DocScrutinizerdon't forget to check any firewall on PC07:15
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DocScrutinizergave me headaches more than once07:15
robbiethe1stah, yea07:16
DocScrutinizernote that firewalls are probably implemented via iptables as well07:17
robbiethe1stTime to go back to basics: I know I got ssh/network working on BackupMenu.07:18
DocScrutinizerso probably best idea is to switch firewall off for the USB NIC, or completely if that'S more easy07:18
robbiethe1stOk, that works. I can ping to the n900 from my PC. That means it's Maemo that's causing the problem - I can't even ping my n90007:18
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DocScrutinizercheck ifconfig07:19
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DocScrutinizeron N90007:19
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DocScrutinizercheck route07:19
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TiagoTiagoany idea why the SIP account does says it is online, but it can't make nor receive calls?08:07
MohammadAGon wifi? probably power saving mode, 3G, high CPU usage i guess (it "rings", but doesn't react to it)08:10
zerojayGAN900: ping08:17
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yigalis there a gconf key or something to have emails from Modest be full screen?08:53
yigalit just seems so unreasonable not to be able to see my mail in full screen08:55
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TiagoTiagoseems it was a problem with the sip provider, i tried another provider and it works09:01
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qhubekela]-Ur`Welcome-[ :09:07
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MohammadAGwhere do I get Qt 4.7.2 for the N809:40
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MohammadAGdoes anyone know why this is segfaulting?
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piggzMohammadAG: qt sis files are probably included in the sdk1.1beta11:01
MohammadAGpiggz, I don't have that, nor do I plan to download a whole SDK for one file :)11:01
piggzMohammadAG: wait 10 mins while my install finishes and i'll dig it out for you11:02
piggzMohammadAG: maybe your mafw_renderer pointer isnt valid?11:04
piggzbut, im sure you;d think of that ;)11:05
piggzs/10mins />10mins :/11:05
MohammadAGpiggz, nah, it segfaults on g_value_set_int11:06
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piggzMohammadAG: eugh, gtk :)11:09
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dominikbis it programmatically possible to close a closable dialog on maemo5? background: my app tries to open a network connection, if that fails (poor signal) a dialog is presented. unless i manually deal with the dialog, it stays there and no futher connection attempts are being made by the system.11:20
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dominikbasked on the mailing list some time ago: found a function called hildon_status_bar_lib_close_closable_dialog
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piggzMohammadAG: and qtwebkit.sis11:29
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piggzbit give it 90 second11:29
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AsiQueMohammadAG: Hey, is there a way to debug hildon-desktop under esbox?11:36
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dominikbok, maybe i found a solution. what do you guys think of 'killall -9 osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs'? is it safe to do that?11:42
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pupnik'safe' meaning will it brick your device?  no11:44
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dominikbpupnik: 'safe' in the meaning of 'robust' solution. one that does not make the system unstable.11:46
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SpeedEvilIfyou can do it many times in a row , it will probably not make the system unstable.11:47
SpeedEvilI don't think that process has a watchdog.11:47
dominikbSpeedEvil: the process seems to have a watchdog. osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs processes are recreated after killing them.11:48
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jukcan i edit media player's playlist files, so i dont have to flick through hundreds of files?11:50
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dominikbpupnik and SpeedEvil: thanks! that solution seems to work like a charm.12:04
SpeedEviljuk: you can exclude certain directories from tracker indexing.12:04
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villagerdominikb: if you're using icd/conic to open the network connection, why not give the "automatic" parameter so that the dialog is never opened?12:09
dominikbvillager: that 'automatic' parameter just does not seem to work.12:10
villagerreally? weird12:10
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villagernever noticed a problem with my app... maybe I never tried with poor connection12:12
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villagerdominikb: that's with CON_IC_CONNECT_FLAG_AUTOMATICALLY_TRIGGERED?12:13
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dominikbvillager: jep, that one does not work for me. recently i switched to Qt and there it also does not work. i filed a bug for that:
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dominikbvillager: doesn't CON_IC_CONNECT_FLAG_AUTOMATICALLY_TRIGGERED mean, that no connection will be established if there isn't already one? see
jukSpeedEvil: so it indexes every time i start it, ah, that the reason it suckes at startup12:31
dominikbin qt when setting ConnectInBackground to True, the ICD_CONNECTION_FLAG_APPLICATION_EVENT is set. see
SpeedEviljuk: yes - look at ~/.config/tracker/12:32
SpeedEvilS?hould only do new files12:32
dominikbvillager: and that does not work for me.12:32
dominikbanybody able to reproduce ? PySide script is attached to bug report.12:33
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villagerdominikb: so you want a connection to be established if there isn't one? normally the n900 will already be connected if it's possible to establish a connection without user interaction...12:34
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dominikbvillager: jep, that's my intention. all the connection handling stuff is handled by the application. i disabled the 'automatic' connection feature.  so the connection is only established on application request.12:37
dominikbvillager: if the connection fails a modal user dialog is presented and no further automatic connection attemps are possible. that's why i came up with the idea of killing these ui-dialogs.12:38
jukSpeedEvil: i didn't know i had tracker installed12:38
SpeedEviljuk: It's stock12:38
SpeedEviljuk: The media player and the camera and ... all use it12:39
jukSpeedEvil: i see12:39
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villagerjuk: I just whipped up a shell script to create my own playlist, then I imported it in media player, so I can use it instead of seeing everything12:45
jukvillager: how do import?12:47
jukvillager: and wheres those playlists located?12:48
jukvillager: that's nice, i would like export playlists as well for backing up12:49
villagerjuk: come to think of it, I can't remember... I suspect I just created a .m3u file along with my music, and then tracker saw it and it showed up in media player12:49
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villagerjuk: so you can put the .m3u anywhere, just as with the music itself12:51
jukvillager: ah, fare enough12:52
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villagerjuk: the media player's own playlists are in ~/.mafw-playlists I think12:56
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villagerbut they're not so useful12:57
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jukvillager: yeah, m3u it's a way to go thanks12:58
jukvillager: i think it's madness those sqlite files and tracker...12:59
villagerjuk: well, I suppose you're not alone in thinking that12:59
jukvillager: (sigh)12:59
villagersome wacky nokia decision...13:01
SpeedEvilTracker isn't a bad idea.13:01
SpeedEvilIt could however be implemented lots better13:01
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Jaffacrashanddie_: No probs (belatedly)14:47
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crashanddie_it's funny how I've lost the will to hack.15:04
crashanddie_I thought I got it back when working with MohammadAG15:04
crashanddie_on the media player15:04
crashanddie_But truth be told, after spending a whole day/week working my ass off on foggy, shitty, insane C++, I cba to see any other code, or even think of designs and stuff.15:05
MohammadAGC and C++ are fun :p15:06
lcukcrashanddie_, motivation is sometimes hard to find15:07
lcukbut once you re find your spark, it is like riding a bike.15:07
crashanddie_I don't know how you did it lcuk15:07
crashanddie_When you were doing that VB shit for the curtain company15:08
lcukcrashanddie_, reading my old notes helps15:08
crashanddie_How you managed to spit out tons of C code after dark15:08
lcukcrashanddie_, there were different things - I have been thinking in C for a lot longer15:08
lcukand converting to VB :P15:08
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crashanddie_Yesterday, I wrote a 30 page document about general design considerations, and applied it to my company. Most devs are absolute nuggets, the guy in charge of the statistics database didn't even know that comparing two floats was dangerous and uncertain...15:09
lcukat least you got direct feedback15:10
crashanddie_no, that was a few days ago -- the float thingie15:10
crashanddie_I don't get feedback during the weekend15:10
MohammadAGwhy is comparing two floats dangerous?15:11
alteregoMohammadAG: because they may be similar but not the same and you have to deal with NaN15:11
crashanddie_in PHP: $a = 19.6; $b = 1960; $a *= 100; if ($a != $b) echo "$a is not equal to $b";15:11
alteregoMohammadAG: Not a Number15:11
crashanddie_MohammadAG: dump that into:
lcukalterego, less an issue for normal uses15:12
alteregolcuk: Qt Mobility Location API uses it15:12
lcukhow is it used in qtm?15:13
crashanddie_I can kinda understand a hobbyist doesn't know this shit, but it seriously frightens me when a guy with 10+ years of experience doesn't vaguely know anything about this...15:13
MohammadAG1960 is not equal to 196015:13
alteregoCertain properties, ground/vertical-speed, direction etc may be NaN if they're not valid in the lock15:13
DocScrutinizerbtw quite similar reason you *never* use == for loop termination15:14
MohammadAGthanks for that15:14
lcukalterego, right, that is using it for an extended purpose15:14
lcukbut it is rarely encounted during normal use15:14
alteregoNo, probably not15:15
crashanddie_for weeks, the web team has been giving us shit as to why we give timestamps coded in two values, one 64-bit int for seconds, and another 64-bit int for milli/nano seconds... On thursday they all went "ooooooh".15:15
crashanddie_These are guys who sit on a project for over a year, and two weeks before deadline, "quick quick quick, code this, code that"15:16
alteregoSounds about right15:16
crashanddie_And then they're bitching at us because we can't completely change the architecture of our server to accomodate their needs, even though they've known about the requirements and gaps for over a year, but never made them clear to us...15:16
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crashanddie_So on Friday I told them they were all a bunch of student-type wankers who needed to get their fucking gig straight if they wanted to have a future in the company, or if they wanted the company to have a future15:17
MohammadAGOi, don't insult students15:18
crashanddie_MohammadAG: "You have an exam at the end of the year" "yeah yeah yeah". 50 weeks later "Oh fuck, we have an exam in two weeks? study study study"15:18
crashanddie_So yesterday, I wrote the doc about design considerations -- what are the pitfalls when designing clients, network considerations, security considerations, platform considerations, I'm going to make them think about what they want to achieve, write a dozen different clients or have one that's roughly multi-platform, etc.15:19
DocScrutinizerwhile for (i=10; i-=3; i=0) is obvious, other constructs easily aren't15:19
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DocScrutinizerwhile for (i=10; i-=3; i==0) is obvious, other constructs easily aren't15:20
DocScrutinizeras well15:20
crashanddie_you got your params wrong15:20
DocScrutinizershould always be sth like i<=015:20
crashanddie_it's for (i = 10; i == 0; i -= 3)15:21
kerioDocScrutinizer: pwnt15:21
DocScrutinizergrrr I need a coffee15:21
lcuklol DocScrutinizer crashanddie_ - now we know why docs code does not run!15:21
alteregoMaybe he really did want it to break out straight away :P15:21
DocScrutinizernow you know when I don't run15:21
crashanddie_"Why are there bugs in Doc's code?" "We ran out of coffee yesterday" "Oh shit"15:22
DocScrutinizerbtw just pondering if it works as well the wrong way round i-=3 returns a value ;-)15:23
lcukDocScrutinizer, what kind of coffee do you drink?15:23
alteregoDocScrutinizer: that's what I was saying, but anything other than 0 equates to true15:23
alteregoNot sure whether having i == 0 in the third part of the statement is compilable though :)15:24
robbiethe1stI have to say, PHP's made me lazy. I've been working with python recently, and run into lots of glitches like that - Where values need to be run through str() in order to concatenate them, or through int() before they'll compare...15:24
DocScrutinizerlatte macciato15:24
alteregorobbiethe1st: it's not actually always required ..15:24
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unixSnobdid the video on Skype ever get fixed for the n800?15:24
keriorobbiethe1st: to concatenate what?15:24
_0x47could someone kindly tell me how this EULA popup is called that you receive on installing some packages?15:24
keriowhat does "concatenate numbers" even fucking *mean*15:25
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: i -= 3 returns "i - 3", so depending on the language (for example, C considering anything non-null to be true, whereas PHP considers anything negative to be false)15:25
alteregokerio: I think he means as string ;)15:25
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robbiethe1stkerio: Mainly things like num=3; print 'val of num'+num+'something else' type things15:25
kerioi know he does, but it's stupid15:25
alteregokerio: JavaScript doesn't think so15:25
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: sure15:25
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robbiethe1stThing is, PHP will just -do- it. Javascript will do it usually, and python... doesn't like it15:26
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crashanddie_wait, what?15:26
alteregorobbiethe1st: that just makes me hate PHP even more :P15:26
crashanddie_Python: print "This is a string, with foo value", foo, "isn't that cool?"15:27
alteregorobbiethe1st: if you use format strings though it does str() automatically15:27
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DocScrutinizeralterego: what's wrong with a i == 0 statement?15:27
alteregoDocScrutinizer: nothing, I guess.15:27
alteregoDocScrutinizer: but it doesn't do anything in the context of the 3rd item in a for15:28
lcuk10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!"15:28
lcuk20 GOTO 1015:28
DocScrutinizeralterego: obviously it's a void statement15:28
alteregoDocScrutinizer: but like I said earlier, if your for compiles, then it'll just break straight away.15:28
crashanddie_erhm, it's not a void statement15:28
alteregoNo it's a boolean statement.15:28
alteregoWhy don't we compile and see if it works :P15:28
lcukin C there is no boolean15:28
robbiethe1stMind, it works in the print case, but not where it's usually needed - Passing it as a string/qstring to a PyQt object15:28
DocScrutinizeralterego: why will it break?15:28
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I'm not saying it will, I just said I didn't know if it would compoile.15:29
DocScrutinizermeh, where's my coffee!!!?15:29
lcukit should be in your inbox, I emailed it a bbit ago15:29
alteregoDocScrutinizer: it certianly generates a warning :P15:30
alterego"3rd expression in for has no effect"15:30
lcukmeanwhile mine is on my tshirt15:30
lcuk<<< classy15:30
* lcuk grabs a new tshirt and holds cup upright in future15:30
alteregoDocScrutinizer: for(int i = 10; i -= 3;i == 0) { qDebug() << i; }15:30
alteregoDocScrutinizer: infinite loop ;)15:30
alteregoWhich is interesting to me ..15:31
alteregoBecause I thought any non-zero would cause it to break,15:31
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_0x47how can I add a agreement popup to my HAM installation?15:32
DocScrutinizermeh, nice15:32
lcuk_0x47, you can, but for what purpose?15:32
DocScrutinizertoldya it won't immediately quit15:32
lcuk(see the postinst for ssh server as example)15:32
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crashanddie_this works, DocScrutinizer
lcukalterego, technically that may not be infinite15:33
lcukit might have to roll around a few times15:33
_0x47lcuk: to tell people that an application will not run without additional third-party binaries and to refer to a help page15:33
alteregolcuk: well, sure15:33
_0x47lcuk: postinst? it should rather be preinst, is that possible?15:33
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lcuk_0x47, isn't the concept of "additional third party binaries" called "dependencies"?15:33
lcukand are normally named in the debian/control file15:34
_0x47lcuk: right, but non-free binaries are not supposed to be in the repo15:34
_0x47like in commercial games engine rewrites15:34
_0x47and people are like "wtf, the game doesn't work" without understanding this15:35
lcukput the code into your app then15:35
lcuknot just in the installer15:35
_0x47lcuk: the proprietary binary code?15:35
lcukbecause most of the time, installing it15:35
lcukand finding out it doesn't work are different events15:35
lcukand might occur days inbetween15:35
_0x47lcuk: but, what's so wrong about telling people that it will need the retail-cd binaries berfore it works?15:36
ShadowJK_I had a terrible nightmare last night. I dreamt my N900 fell to the floor, and the gsm, 3g, bt and wifi antennas came out. I tried to glue them back, but the N900 didn't boot :-(15:36
* ShadowJK_ shudders15:36
lcuk:( sh15:36
ShadowJK_Good thing it was only a dream15:37
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djszapithe movie has a big latency to the sound on my fremantle tho. by using mplayer. (N900) What do I do wrong ?15:37
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: yes (roll around, aka overflow)15:38
ShadowJK_djszapi, usually the big latency is because you're playing a movie bigger than what mplayer can handle. The video decoding is running slower than audio15:39
DocScrutinizerdealing with 2-byte charsets in strings is a nice occasion where comparing == sizeof(buffer) is a really bad idea15:39
djszapiit is more like a dsp problem than mplayer...15:39
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MohammadAGQt Webkit on the N8 is epic15:40
MohammadAGscrolling's smooth15:40
MohammadAGQML's scrolling otoh sucks balls15:40
lcukand what is the N8 display resolution?15:40
_0x47lcuk: I understand that I can run a script preinst or postinst, but I don't find anything about how to create a hildonized message from the HAM install. Like when you install the kernel-power15:40
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MohammadAGlcuk, 640x36015:40
lcuk_0x47, then look in the pre/post inst for that package and see how they do it15:40
MohammadAGbut QWebKit on maemo isn't the best thing15:41
_0x47lcuk: lol of course >< thanks!15:41
lcukMohammadAG, the N900 has many more pixels to fill15:42
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MohammadAGlcuk, regardless, QWebkit needs a lot of tuning on the N90015:42
lcukexample: on the N810, using display mode 800*480, render speed is ~25fps15:42
MohammadAGit doesn't even have proper scrolling, but needs a hack15:42
lcukexample: on the N810, using display mode 640*480, render speed is ~33fps15:43
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* lcuk could pull n900 figures, but that tiny example sums it up nicely15:43
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MohammadAGQWebkit is faster, QML is slower (on the N8)15:43
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ShadowJK_dzszapi: MPlayer doesn't use the dsp15:43
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DocScrutinizerexcuse my alzheimer, but could you show me a correct c for() statement please. My brain got messed up by the many bad examples right now15:49
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_0x47lcuk: just for your information:,_Deploying_and_Distributing#maemo-confirm-text15:49
_0x47thanks for the hint :)15:49
DocScrutinizerand the coffee, while tasty, doesn't kick in that fast15:49
_0x47DocScrutinizer for(int i = 0; i < 5; i++) { }15:50
DocScrutinizerthank you pal15:50
crashanddie_please use a space between for and the parenthesis :)15:50
_0x47I don't, I I don't know why I should :P15:51
_0x47, and* I15:51
crashanddie_it's a language construct, makes it easier to parse the code and differentiate it from a function call15:51
_0x47i see15:52
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* DocScrutinizer is amazed Dennis Ritchie bothered at all to implement commodity constructs like while() into C15:55
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DocScrutinizers/ C/ his hacker language/.15:55
MohammadAGcrashanddie_, so I should be using for () instead of for()?15:55
MohammadAGor if () instead of if()15:56
crashanddie_you shouldn't be doing anything, but yeah, I find it highly more readable that way15:56
DocScrutinizerif () as well, could get replaced by a for(;!cond;)15:57
MohammadAGisn't for() = a loop?15:58
DocScrutinizercoding pretty print styles, ohmy15:58
DocScrutinizeryeah, but you can leave it15:58
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crashanddie_at least I've never come across code like this: int m = 754974721, N, t[1 << 22], a, *p, i, e = 1 << 22, j, s, b, c, U;16:00
DocScrutinizeractually c for() is the most universal generic structure I know of16:00
crashanddie_for (s = 1 << 23; s; s /= 2, d = d * 1LL * d % m) if (s < N) for (p = t; p < t + N; p += s) for (i = s, c = 1; i; i--) b = *p + p[s], p[s] = (m + *p - p[s]) * 1LL * c % m, *p++ = b % m, c = c * 1LL * d % m;16:01
ShadowJK_crashanddie, please take it to IOCC ;P16:01
crashanddie_ShadowJK_: that is from the IOCC :D16:01
crashanddie_for (s = 1 << 23; s; s /= 2, d = d * 1LL * d % m)16:03
crashanddie_that's just so fucked up16:03
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: that code quite obviously is incomplete or defect16:03
DocScrutinizerthe long statement above parses in my half awake brain as ()-mismatch16:04
DocScrutinizeroh, nm16:04
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crashanddie_nha, the code compiles and runs16:05
crashanddie_$ gcc test.c -o test16:05
crashanddie_$ ./test16:05
DocScrutinizerI have to admit I fail to understand the full semantics of comma16:06
DocScrutinizerdidn't know it's allowed to build compounds16:07
crashanddie_it's not a compound16:07
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villagercomma just means throw away the result of the previous expression (while keeping the side effects, of course) and return the result of the next expression... it can be used in any expression16:08
crashanddie_it just evaluates the first part, discards the return value, and evaluates the second one16:08
DocScrutinizerheh thnx16:08
crashanddie_From wikipedia: (a, b) is equivalent to (a ? b : b)16:08
crashanddie_I'm iouyt16:09
crashanddie_I'm out, even16:09
villagerI regularly use commas in my for statements when it makes sense16:09
crashanddie_The fact that using comma makes regularly sense is quite remarkable16:09
crashanddie_or worrying, depending on context16:09
crashanddie_take care16:09
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villagerfor multiple loop variables it does...16:10
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DocScrutinizervillager: in for statements I'm used to it, in plain code it looked strange and undefined to me. Of course everything is defined somehow in C16:10
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djszapiany arch user here with N900 ?16:11
BCMMi'm curious as to what could be arch-specific and n900-related...16:11
BCMMdjszapi: are you sure a user of a different distro couldn't help?16:12
villageroutside of a for statement a comma can usually be replaced with a regular semicolon, so it generally does not make sense to use it elsewhere, but it's legal16:12
djszapiBCMM: how to set up the network on arch16:12
BCMMUSB networking?16:12
djszapiin order to install packages with apt-get there from the internet etc.16:13
djszapi => This page does not have any Arch instruction.16:13
DocScrutinizervillager: c has too much freedom to do nonsense ( accident usually)16:14
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DocScrutinizerbasically C is a highly sophisticated assembler16:14
villageryes, it follows from the history of C...16:17
DocScrutinizerwhile almost all other "hig level langueages" follow the paradigm to analyze and interpret the logic in a code, and even to things like runtime-checks to further restrict what can happen, C is simply offering assembler macros you can use any way you like16:17
ShadowJK_djszapi: MPlayer does not use DSP16:17
djszapiShadowJK_: what uses then ?16:18
ShadowJK_The built-in media player does16:19
djszapiits name ?16:19
villagerDocScrutinizer: well, keep in mind that all those other languages are implemented in C... but when C was first invented, one step up from assembler was all that was feasible, but pretty much a necessary step in order to allow all those more advanced languages to be possible16:19
ShadowJK_"Media Player"?16:19
achipaShadowJK_: djszapi: essentially, boils down to gstreamer16:20
DocScrutinizervillager: appreciated16:20
djszapiShadowJK_: Media<tab> no result.16:20
lcukvillager, C is cross platform ASM :P16:20
ShadowJK_Media Player - mafw - gstreamer - dsp16:20
djszapilcuk: huh ?16:20
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ++16:21
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djszapiShadowJK_: I need its name in order to run it from cli16:21
MohammadAGyou can't16:21
ShadowJK_but it probably doesn't work from cli :)16:21
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djszapithat is not nice at all.16:22
MohammadAGmy SGX is fucked, brb16:22
DocScrutinizermeh, there's a lot of such crap in maemo. Try opening a particular file in Notes :-(16:23
DocScrutinizeryou mustn't think Notes would take cmdline arguments16:24
djszapiShadowJK_: black screen if I select the Media Player after clicking on the flv file in the filemanager...16:25
djszapi"Uanble to play media. Video codec not supported" lol16:25
djszapiAny arch and N900 user here ?16:25
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ShadowJKYeah it doesn't play flv without extra-codecs or codecs-extra or whatever it was called16:26
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djszapitoo bad16:26
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DocScrutinizerwhat a name16:26
djszapiwell, I cannot install any package until the network does not work on arch./16:26
MohammadAGsuggestions for zoom in and out in hildon-desktop?16:27
DocScrutinizeryou can ;-) copy the pkg file to uSD16:27
djszapiShadowJK: lol this media player is good at generating random freezes16:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: obviously + / -16:28
MohammadAGNokia's mediaplayer sucks16:28
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I can't capture those16:28
DocScrutinizercheck with my matrix of unallowed thre-key-combos16:28
djszapiwell, mplayer is not an alternative either with no dsp support16:28
MohammadAGhildon-desktop is always on, if I do capture them, volume won't work16:28
DocScrutinizerthen I'd suggest ctrl-blue-up/down16:29
DocScrutinizernah, conflicts with german kbd layout16:29
MohammadAGletters, please :P16:29
MohammadAGit's CTRL+SHIFT+R/F, but that conflicts with rotation flag16:30
DocScrutinizer+ and - actually are letters - no really, I just mean the letters where + and - sit on16:30
MohammadAGI'd use I/O, but I is needed in microB16:30
MohammadAGS and F16:30
DocScrutinizerwhat's with shift-vol+/vol- (aka F7/8 iirc)16:31
lcukMohammadAG, Maemo5 UI team might suggest swirly zoom o_O16:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, the status bar volume thing captures the keys16:32
MohammadAGyou can't use them unless you capture them16:32
DocScrutinizererr, also the shifted ones?16:32
MohammadAGlcuk, I'd like that too :)16:32
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, qwerty12 complained about it in his last app/daemon16:32
DocScrutinizerwe got a TICKET (in bold) for that?16:33
MohammadAGno, it's intended functionality16:33
DocScrutinizerbtw xchat nicely captures those keys16:33
DocScrutinizertoo nicely I have to add16:34
zogg_MohammadAG where is qwerty12 any one knows btw?16:34
MohammadAGzogg_, nope, he left without a trace16:34
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MohammadAGhe left a rant16:34
DocScrutinizeron a visit with Dr Mabuse16:35
DocScrutinizeror Blofeld16:35
DocScrutinizerkilling Blofeld's cat16:35
jaskaernst stavro?16:35
MohammadAGstill can't figure out how to change volume16:36
DocScrutinizer(rant) one with a lot of ****** and beeeps16:36
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ??16:37
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DocScrutinizerthere's a dbus call for it, no?16:37
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MohammadAGthat sucks when you do it multiple times a second16:38
DocScrutinizerchnaging volume is a really tricky thing, as there's a friggin lot of concurrent volumes16:38
MohammadAGi.e when moving a slider16:38
MohammadAGthere's a way to do it with mafw16:38
MohammadAGbut the documentation is meh16:38
MohammadAGit mentions _do_set_volume(), no idea where that function's from16:38
DocScrutinizerI'd guess from that link and context it's a method of the renderer object16:39
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MohammadAGwouldn't that be mafw_renderer_do_set_volume () then?16:40
MohammadAGmy attempt at using GValue resulted in a segfault16:40
DocScrutinizerI just can tell you there are several concurrent volumes, and you might want to think twice about which one(s) you actually want to change16:41
MohammadAGmafw has to worry about that, not me16:42
DocScrutinizernah, that's nonsense16:42
MohammadAGnot really :)16:42
DocScrutinizerthese volumes have diferent semantics16:42
MohammadAGyeah, but mafw only changes the "normal" one16:43
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DocScrutinizerdo you want to change the digital attenuation for that particular mp3 playback, do you want to change the hardware headset volume - if so then do you want it to be temporary or persistent... etc pp16:43
MohammadAGagain, that's mafw's responsibility, not mine16:44
DocScrutinizerthere are even several hw volumes16:44
DocScrutinizerfor all I can tell from my understanding of N900 hw16:44
MohammadAGsince we're talking about playback16:45
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MohammadAGw(hy)tf does the device not support mixed sounds?16:45
MohammadAGplaying a song during a call, or during camera capture16:45
DocScrutinizerthe device? PA is supposed to care about it, as they decided ALSA dmix can't do it16:45
MohammadAGit can obviously do two sounds at once, they have it disabled somewhere16:46
MohammadAGthe beep that sounds when playing music and a notification comes in is an example16:46
DocScrutinizeranyway you got just one useable set of DACs, so if camera exclusively opens the audio hw for playback of that silly shutter sound, then there's no DAC left for playback of mp3 via AV-headset jack16:47
DocScrutinizeryes, that's quite probably done in alsaped policies16:48
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MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# xprop -id 0x044008e816:49
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MohammadAGif anyone's interested in DND and videos in Qt apps16:49
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DocScrutinizer(alsaped & policies) just another case of where's-the-fscking-manual? and dumping source is as worthless as dumping source of a c compiler is for defining c syntax for developers16:52
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DocScrutinizer""how to use destructor in an object? Dude lemme point you to the compiler source in mxr, there's all you need""16:54
DocScrutinizer^^^Nokia's take on FOSS16:55
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norayrtrx: hey16:58
trxi created a script that we were talking about16:58
trxhaving some problems tho16:58
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trxi compile 2.5.1 sources16:59
norayrI was sick this couple of days, now I am better, and wanted to do that. Nice, did you use my wiki page as a reference?16:59
trxbut compiler reports 2.2.216:59
trxany idea why?16:59
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trx(so when i try to compile, it can't find proper units)17:00
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norayrAre you sure you are calling the right compiler? Did you use ARM binary 2.2.2 compiler they provide at the web site?17:00
norayrBecause I didn't use it.17:00
trxi compiled the 2.5.1 src i had on x86 for ARM17:00
trxtransfered it to scratchbox17:00
norayrI wanted to ask you whether autobuilder can call svn17:00
trxand then used it to compile fpc17:01
norayrI mean subversion17:01
trxit does, just build-depend on it17:01
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trx(i havent tried actually)17:01
norayrI never seen anything like that.17:01
trxbut i would assume so17:01
trxwhy wouldn't it, its a package like any other17:01
norayrSo, you build an ARM eabi compiler on PC, then transferred it to scratchbox, right?17:01
trxyes, ppcarm17:02
trxthats the only thing you need17:02
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MohammadAGif anyone's interested (cc alterego)
norayrBesides, how would you give it to autobuilder? Tell it to download from somewhere with wget?17:02
MohammadAGmeh, deleted the paste by mistake17:02
trxnorayr for now just include it with the source tar17:03
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (capturing keys) there's something about that in MHD. Capture or send dbus signal, sth along that line. You might want to check there17:03
norayrokay, I'll check my ppcarm versions, and how they report themselves.17:03
norayrAnyway, I guess17:04
norayrthe problem is in the commandline you use while trying to compile the source.17:04
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, mhd here, nothing about that17:04
norayrDid you mention exactly PP= absolute path ?17:04
DocScrutinizercheck the "specs"17:04
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: on first reading, i thought you were saying that Nokia's take on FOSS was to call it's destructor... delete foss;17:06
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DocScrutinizer/apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/dbus_shift_ctrl (*)17:06
DocScrutinizer If the value of this key is true, then ctrl-shift-letter combinations are reported on the d-bus, allowing implementation of global shortcut keys. H,N,P,X are reported on the dbus only if the previous key is false.17:07
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you're missing the point17:08
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MohammadAGthe keys aren't reported at all when they're captured by the plugin17:09
MohammadAGso unless you want me to reimplement volume changing in hildon-desktop, using them is impossible17:09
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MohammadAGpiggz, thanks for the sis files btw :)17:12
piggzMohammadAG: np...they worked for you? ... do you also want the sqlite3.sis and qmlviewer.sis?  what about the openc and pips supporting files?17:13
MohammadAGpiggz, nah, installing those worked fine17:15
MohammadAGpiggz, afaik Nokia Bubbles installs qmlviewer.sis17:15
piggzMohammadAG: for reference, i was installing sdk1.1, because in 1.0, with qt 4.6.2, qwebpage is horribly broken, so, if you write anything using qwebkit, aim for 4.7.217:16
GeneralAntilleszerojay: pong?17:16
MohammadAGpiggz, QWebkit stuff never compiled for me for Symbian^3 (at least on 4.6.2)17:16
piggzMohammadAG: i knocked up a simple app for n900, and decided to port to symbian (^1 atm as i also have a 5800) app worked fine in the simulator, but crashed the phone due to a bug in netowork handling17:18
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: actually that's been exactly what I was pointing you at. Obviously HD is a very early instance to deal with keypress events and decides what to do with those. It's quite possible (M)HD needs some patch there to allow generic management of what to do when an arbirary key(combo) got pressed17:19
zerojayGeneralAntilles: It's been about 15 months or so since I got told I might have gotten Nokia sued by Nintendo. Good times. lol17:21
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GeneralAntillesWhat a mess that was.17:21
DocScrutinizerzerojay: wut?17:21
zerojayAnd then it was all wrong. lol17:22
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zerojayI won't tell the full story here since it's logged.17:22
zerojayBut yeah... what a mess. lol17:22
DocScrutinizergoogling for "logged story" won't help ;-D17:23
zerojayIn the end, it had nothing at all to do with me.17:24
zerojayI just stumbled across the OMG OMG OMG emails last night.17:25
DocScrutinizerwell, if it was of the kind that'S happening right now, then I'm not surprised17:25
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DocScrutinizereven on IRC it's quite best practice to either have an implicit or explicit subject giving a concise but precise idea of the topic and the involved backgound, or alternatively narrow down the communication channel to those addressees that don't need such subject as they already got the background and context17:29
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villagerMohammadAG: well you're not using GValue correctly in that thing you pasted into pastebin...17:30
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MohammadAGvillager, sorry, I'm a GLib/Gtk noob17:30
villagerMohammadAG: according to GValue docs, the value needs to be initialized to nulls, so you should use GValue value = {0};17:31
villagerMohammadAG: also mafw docs says that the volume is G_TYPE_UINT, not G_TYPE_INT17:31
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norayrpeople who knows are there subversion in the maemo autobuilder installed?17:32
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MohammadAGat least it doesn't segfault now :)17:33
MohammadAGbut still fails to change volume :/17:33
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villagerwell, can't help with that, I mostly know about glib/gtk/gstreamer and some hildon, but not mafw in particular17:35
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BCMMok, i'm a little confused here17:37
BCMMwhich package owns /usr/bin/top, by default?17:37
BCMMoh, sorry17:37
villagerMohammadAG: but you're using G_TYPE_UINT and set_uint now?17:37
BCMMdidn't see busybox-symlinks-procps being uninstalled17:37
BCMMMohammadAG: surely busybox-symlinks-procps?17:38
MohammadAGoh, set_uint17:38
* MohammadAG tries17:38
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BCMMnm, i thought installing the real procps had somehow clobbered part of BB, before i noticed busybox-symlinks-procps being uninstalled17:38
MohammadAGvillager, that worked, thanks :)17:39
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MohammadAGvillager, any ideas what warning: missing initializer for member '_GValue::data' means?18:03
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villagerMohammadAG: that sounds like a c++ thing18:04
MohammadAGwell, I'm mixing C and C++ since mafw is C/GObject and Qt is C++18:04
villagerMohammadAG: other than "the member is missing an initializer", I wouldn't know without seeing the code...18:05
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MohammadAG villager18:06
villagerMohammadAG: on what line is the warning? the GValue value one?18:06
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MohammadAG GValue value = {0};18:07
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villagerMohammadAG: then I guess it's a case of c++ being more strict than c18:08
MohammadAGvillager, any ideas if it can be hidden? I hate warnings18:08
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villagerMohammadAG: the cleanest might be to initialize the GValue using memset() instead of with a structure initializer... like GValue value; memset(&value, 0, sizeof(value));18:11
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villagerMohammadAG: or maybe use glib's c++ bindings (glibmm) instead of its c interface, I suppose, but that might be more work and add more dependencies...18:13
MohammadAGvillager, first solution worked fine :)18:14
khertanwhat did you think of the design of my website : ?18:16
SpeedEvilkhertan: looks OK18:17
SpeedEvilEasy to read, reasonably fast loading.18:17
khertanmy reference device to test is n90018:17
SpeedEvil'in these communities' - ratehr than 'this community'18:18
khertanover 3G :)18:18
SpeedEvilAnd minor similar grammar issues.18:18
SpeedEvilBut nothing really that 'leap out and smack you in the face'18:18
khertanhum ... maybe i should try to found a open source grammatical corrector :)18:19
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khertanSpeedEvil, thx18:21
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lcukYo! noobmonk3y18:27
noobmonk3yhey lcuky!18:27
* noobmonk3y is having an n900 related problem!!! urghhh18:28
noobmonk3yoooooooooo maybe not!18:28
noobmonk3yyay the flashing finally worked!18:28
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noobmonk3yhows #maemo #meego etc? :)18:28
lcuknoobmonk3y, today is hard.18:29
lcukthe house is full of smell of cooking pork18:29
noobmonk3ywhy so hard?!18:30
lcukand I am just about ready to eat hind leg off a donkey18:30
noobmonk3ythat is good!18:30
* lcuk is starving18:30
noobmonk3yooo my n900 feels new again! my first full flash + eemc18:30
* MohammadAG hands lcuk a trout18:30
noobmonk3yhe mo ;)18:30
lcukand it will not be ready for another 65 minutes18:30
MohammadAGhey noobmonk3y :D18:30
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MohammadAG6356 lines of code in the foss mediaplayer, and it's not done yet :D18:30
noobmonk3ywoooops battery fell out18:31
noobmonk3yyouve been a busy mo!18:31
MohammadAGthat counts the GPL license in all files18:32
noobmonk3ylcuk, 2 days until pancake day... i have developed a 26 rasher bacon/pancake mix ;)18:32
* MohammadAG does more grepping18:32
lcuknoobmonk3y, 6355 of them are comments "how tf do I do this"18:32
lcukand one line is shell("mediaplayer")18:32
MohammadAGoh well18:32
lcuknoobmonk3y, wow18:32
lcukafter last year I did not think you would improve on the 24rasher recipe18:33
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noobmonk3ythis one will be a beaut!18:34
noobmonk3ymight feed 4 i think18:34
lcuknoobmonk3y, yes, "might" feed 418:34
lcukor one monkey18:35
noobmonk3ywhere do i need to place the backup files18:36
noobmonk3yfor the n900 to see them?18:36
lcukmydocs usually18:36
MohammadAGI wonder why this is failing  if (strcmp (name, MAFW_PROPERTY_RENDERER_VOLUME))18:36
lcukthen one subfolder for each backup18:37
noobmonk3yw000p restoring18:38
noobmonk3yeverything barra pps lol18:38
noobmonk3ythe phone has been useless for a month18:38
noobmonk3yjust constantly at 100% meh18:38
MohammadAGk, this is annoying18:40
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MohammadAGlcuk, ever used strcmp?18:40
noobmonk3yw000p brb - food18:41
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villagerMohammadAG: I don't know what you're trying to do, but the first thing to learn about strcmp is that it does not return a boolean...18:42
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MohammadAGan integer, meh18:44
MohammadAGthanks again villager18:44
piggz0 = match18:44
villagerif you do use it as if it does (which I often do), you should at least know what it means...18:44
* MohammadAG tries if (strcmp (name, MAFW_PROPERTY_RENDERER_VOLUME) == 0) {18:45
MohammadAGvillager, I've never used it :P18:45
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villagerfor instance, you can use a logical NOT operator to check if it's returning 0 (since in C, 0 and false is the same thing), which would check for a match...18:46
villageri.e. ! strcmp(...9, which I often use because I'm lazy, but people say that using == is more readable18:46
piggzah, the reverse logic of the c library...gotta love qt ;)18:47
infobotvillager meant: i.e. ! strcmp(...), which I often use because I'm lazy, but people say that using == is more readable18:47
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MohammadAGgot it18:49
MohammadAGthough again, I've never used, I just use if (QString == QString) in Qt18:49
MohammadAGmafw support lyrics18:49
MohammadAGit's a shame the stock player never used this, the iPhone's player does18:50
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villagerin my opinion, neither C nor C++ are really suitable languages for newbie programmers... they were sort of designed for people who already knew what they were doing before they learned the language...18:52
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BCMMwhen C was designed, everything that already existed made even less sense.18:53
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BCMMwell, that's the popular opinion anyway. personally, fortran is kinda nice.18:53
villagerBCMM: pretty much, and people knew how to deal with that...18:53
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MohammadAGvillager, gotta start somewhere right? :)18:53
BCMMC wasn't designed for people who had learned on BASIC. It was designed for FORTRAN programmers; all newbies should learn FORTRAN.18:54
villagerwhat do you base your c and fortran connection on?18:55
lcukpascal came bafore C18:55
lcukand BASIC came almost 10 years before c18:55
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BCMMlcuk: modern "basic" is completely unrecognisable18:55
BCMMbut i didn't know pascal was that early18:55
BCMMvillager: it was *supposed* to be wrong18:56
buntfalke$ /opt/marble/bin/marble.sh18:56
buntfalkeUnsupported DBUS type:  018:56
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buntfalkeSegmentation fault18:56
buntfalkeSame for you guys?18:56
BCMMi'm trying to question the idea that C was "designed for people who already know what they're doing"18:56
lcukC was just an evolution of B18:57
lcukand came in 197118:57
villagerBCMM: well, as far as I know, C was designed to appeal to BCPL programmers...18:57
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* lcuk wonders which programming languages will be born in 201118:59
buntfalke2011 will be the year of Haskell in the Mainstream!1118:59
APTXnot the year of linux?19:00
APTXThough I hear that every year -.-19:00
villagerfor me, every year is a year of linux anyway19:01
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buntfalkeSo. What about marble. segfaults for you, too?19:02
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DocScrutinizerdamn, my SIP account blunders. Telepathy-SofiaSIP/0.6.2, while the other N900 with Telepathy-SofiaSIP/ works just fine19:11
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DocScrutinizer  Installed: 0.6.2-0maemo1+0m519:13
DocScrutinizer  Candidate: 0.6.2-0maemo4+0m519:13
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pupnik_what's surprising there19:19
pupnik_besides creative numbering19:20
DocScrutinizerthe fact I got a newer candidate which doesn't get installed19:21
DocScrutinizeranyway installed it manually, didn't help19:21
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DocScrutinizerI ponder to install Telepathy-SofiaSIP/
pupnik_villager: it is quite readable to read if !foo() since it maps to "if not foo..."19:23
DocScrutinizerMy N810 diablo yust works fine, my N900 PR1.1 with PK46 just works fine. Only my N900 PR1.2 with no particular tweaks to telephony acts up on SIP19:24
DocScrutinizerthat's a real PITA19:25
DocScrutinizerI already compared the settings, even the account config files, they are identical19:26
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DocScrutinizerstill on "new" N900 inbound SIP gets rejected immediately and logged as missed call, while for outbound calls in dialpad I can't select SIP service (button highlights but doesn't open a dropdown menu), from contacts I can select SIP call and it opens dialpad with notifier "call finished" - so same as inbound19:28
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pupnik_did you try the maemo4 version?19:31
pupnik_is it related to the pr level?19:31
* javispedro is happy, grmgpsd works:
DocScrutinizerI tried the maemo4 version19:34
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DocScrutinizerbut it didn't help19:34
DocScrutinizernow it's really fsckdup :-/19:34
DocScrutinizerMar  6 18:32:19 IroN900 kernel: [17536.607788] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered19:34
DocScrutinizerMar  6 18:32:23 IroN900 kernel: [17540.271789] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered19:34
DocScrutinizerMar  6 18:32:23 IroN900 kernel: [17540.896759] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered19:34
DocScrutinizerMar  6 18:32:24 IroN900 kernel: [17541.521881] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered19:34
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, reboot19:36
DocScrutinizerfunny funny, surprise: this was after a reboot19:36
javispedroit can happen19:37
MohammadAGreboot again :)19:37
javispedromy n900 sometimes boots funny19:37
javispedrothe sgx driver sucks.19:37
MohammadAGyeah, happened to me today19:37
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MohammadAGmust be the cosmos19:37
javispedroI think they're not fully initializing the hw somewhere19:37
javispedrobecause a battery remove cycle usually ensures next boot it'll work.19:37
MohammadAGdidn't the drivers get upgraded from PR1.1 to PR1.3? :)19:38
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pupnik_cool stuff javispedro - so n900 acts as bluetooth or usb gps?19:38
javispedropupnik_: bt, but it could potentially act as usb19:38
SpeedEvilHas anyone heard of USB-gadget-pictbridge/19:39
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DocScrutinizer  is what's happening when I try to initiate a SIP call from AddrBook (it gets cancelled immediately with notifier "call finished")19:43
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DocScrutinizerwell for inbound calls (that get "missed call" immediately) there's zero in syslog, so probably the above doesn't hold any hint19:45
* DocScrutinizer curses Telepathy-SofiaSIP19:45
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pupnik_DocScrutinizer: are the sipgate calls cheaper than regular?  I'm wonering if it buys me any functionality besides 'calls from laptop'19:50
DocScrutinizerwhat's "regular"?19:50
pupnik_cell phone.. i.e. call from n900 over cell network19:51
SpeedEvilmay be lots cheaper19:52
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DocScrutinizerfunny point I just see: to Egypt it's cheaper to call cellphones than landlines19:54
DocScrutinizerBahamas as well19:55
DocScrutinizerHong Kong19:56
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DocScrutinizerPapua Newguinea, Ruanda, Surinam, Tansania, plus a few I prolly missed20:00
DocScrutinizermeh, a weird world. ten times cheaper to call a cellphone in Hong Kong than to call a cellphone 50m away20:03
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DocScrutinizerplus this FU¶łł¼NG Telepathy-SofiaSIP is messing my daily cellphone's SIP functions20:04
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: pictbridge on N900?20:07
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SpeedEvilI can't be bothered to chase down the dependancies for getting my printer working with linux.20:08
SpeedEvilSo I'm doing the stupid step of printing as jpegs, thenprinting those out. (it can read memory cards)20:08
SpeedEvilpictbridge would make this easy.20:08
SpeedEvilIt can't read the n900 memory for some reason.20:09
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DocScrutinizerweird: the printer acts as OTG device?20:10
SpeedEvilNo - it acts as USBhost20:10
DocScrutinizeror is there a dedicated receptacle for gadgets20:10
SpeedEvilIt can read memory sticks and cards.20:10
MohammadAGmine has a full size USB port20:11
DocScrutinizeraah, and connects to PC via something separate20:11
* MohammadAG has a BT adapter connected20:11
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yes - it has a USB lead, and wireless20:12
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: try disabling bme. failure of ass rage mode might relate to charging20:12
SpeedEvilhmm - that's a thought.20:12
DocScrutinizerGRRR I'd reflash PR1.2 if I could get all the apps installed again. I'd even give PR1.3 a shot if I could reflash to PR1.2 and get all the apps installed20:16
javispedromass rage mode20:16
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MohammadAGcan't you?20:18
DocScrutinizerodds are SIP still broken in PR1.3, plus an arbitrary number of apps I like and which worked in PR1.220:18
MohammadAGbut PR1.3 works fine :p20:18
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, canon?20:18
SpeedEvilShadowJK: No, printer.20:19
SpeedEvilLexmark all-in-one thingy.20:19
ShadowJKthat's worse20:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so do all the apps and hacks and fixes I am using under PR1.2 currently?20:19
MohammadAGprobably, yeah20:20
SpeedEvilIt had massive cartridges, 3 year guarantee was half price, scanner too, and I can put up with the silly print-jpeg step.20:20
DocScrutinizerprobably is a poor statement for convincing me to risk my daily phone20:20
* ShadowJK bought HP laser specifically because they have decent Linux support20:21
MohammadAGa daily phone shouldn't have hacks :)20:21
DocScrutinizersays who?20:21
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah20:22
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: well, not all of them. And esp not the scanners :-/20:22
DocScrutinizerhplip is a PITA most times20:23
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GAN900MohammadAG, not if it's Android.20:25
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: 0  1000 22056 22619  20   0      0     0 exit   Z    ?          0:01 [python] <defunct>  /usr/bin/hp-toolbox20:29
DocScrutinizerdamn I had no zombies since some 5 years, until I installed the drivers for P150520:30
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DocScrutinizernow I know there's smething wrong when there is NO zombie process of hplip20:31
lcukwe had a rather large zombie invasion from the local graveyard a couple of years ago20:32
lcukoh cripes, you meant computer zombies, nm wrong channel20:32
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: any comments regarding my Telepathy-SofiaSIP problem?20:33
DocScrutinizer[2011-03-06 18:11:06] <DocScrutinizer> damn, my SIP account blunders. Telepathy-SofiaSIP/0.6.2, while the other N900 with Telepathy-SofiaSIP/ works just fine20:34
lcuki have not been looking, but as you know beyond installation and actually trying to forward bugs know nothing technical about SIP itself20:34
DocScrutinizeryeah. Maybe you know what's current version of SofiaSIP, and when v0.6.2 got introduced20:35
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djszapiwhat should I install on fremanle to get flv support in the media player, the related gstreamer package is installed imho.20:37
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: nm,
djszapigstreamer0.10-flv - FLV gst plugin from the good set -> this one20:39
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djszapimplayer works just fine, but media player not, why so ? :o20:41
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pupnik_~~i just checked in, to see what condition my condition was in20:45
lolcatMy charger don't charge20:46
lolcatIs it the phone or the charger?20:46
SpeedEvilDoes it charge if you plug it into a PC?20:47
lolcatThe screen ligths up20:49
lolcatBut it doesn't seem to charge20:49
lolcatthere it started20:49
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DocScrutinizerwho thought we need that scary requester in i2ctools install pkg? It's a pita when installing sth via ssh and apt-get, when there's a requester popping up on N900 screen and you sit there and wonder WTH is going on (or NOT going on) after apt-get spew out that20:51
DocScrutinizerYOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!20:51
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ??20:54
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pupnik_"what is a pandora"?
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infobotflashing is probably
FIQcorrect, infobot, and thanks21:03
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FIQIs there a "debugmode" or something that I can turn on while booting so i can see what exactly is wrong?21:41
FIQBecause my phone refuses to proceed when coming to loading screen, and reflashing didn't have any effect21:42
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alteregoFIQ: what did you reflash? emmc and rootfs?21:43
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FIQflasher-3.5.exe -F /path/to/fw.bin -f21:45
FIQand it worked, no errors occured21:45
FIQbut the device still refuses to boot21:45
alteregoWas the the emmc or root image?21:45
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ZogGVenemo, heeeeey21:46
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FIQi.e. RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin21:46
nidOyou could flash a custom kernel with framebuffer enabled21:46
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FIQIsn't rootfs reflash supposed to wipe out every possible error btw?21:47
FIQbecause, the device is able to boot w/o /home directory (it will create one -- but my point is, errors in there shouldn't really stop device from booting, or should it?)21:48
ZogGFIQ, technically yes. but i now 100 %21:48
ZogGif you have errors in user configs that are in /home/user and i don't know if it's on rootfs21:48
ZogGFIQ don't think so21:49
ZogGFIQ, what is the problem error you have?21:50
FIQCannot really supply something useful (i guess), as it is a GUI loading screen, but well, after the logo, when the loading screen appears, it continues loading infinitly21:51
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FIQShould I attempt to reflash eMMC as well?21:52
ZogGi think try to flash21:53
FIQAnd if so, how long would it take? (my battery isn't that full...)21:53
ZogGnothing worse can happen21:53
FIQeMMC content 10.2010.13-2 <-- what PR version is that?21:54
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FIQbecause any PRs doesn't really seem to have same version number21:56
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DocScrutinizersorry for noob question, but how do I reinstall mp-fremantle-generic-pr via dpkg? (apt-get fails due to dependencies)22:09
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alterego./flasher-3.5 -F RXBLAH-fiasco.bin -f ?22:11
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MohammadAGyou don't22:12
MohammadAGold versions are removed when a new PR is out22:12
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DocScrutinizeri'll FLASH this piece of sh*t!22:14
DocScrutinizerSSU - a hoax22:14
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danny___ hi folks, is it possible to make a "bin" file from my current rootfs on n900, so that next time i needed to reflash it, i can use this image instead of the *_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin? in this way, i don't need to recustomize the phone after a flash, much like how a "ghost" image works22:14
FIQupstart or busybox!22:14
FIQer, sysvinit-fs*22:15
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DocScrutinizerdanny___: nope22:15
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DocScrutinizerdanny___: you might want to have a look at backupmenu app22:15
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DocScrutinizerand I might want to look at22:16
infobotwell, flashing is
FIQNow it actually booted22:16
FIQWith... no fonts :D22:16
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FIQ(squares everywhere)22:16
FIQI guess my /opt somehow is breaked :P22:17
FIQAt least i can charge22:17
FIQwhich i will do before any more attempt22:17
DocScrutinizerwhich you should do22:17
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, PR1.3? Pwease?22:18
DocScrutinizerssh might have a better charset ;-)22:18
MohammadAGthat way you can go with PR1.3.3.7 :P22:18
FIQDocScrutinizer, :P22:18
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: please elaborate22:18
FIQso... how should i connect to wlan now...22:18
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MohammadAGwhy the f is tracker broken in the X86 SDK :/22:18
DocScrutinizeryou mean CSSU should update a fsckdup PR1.2 with mp-fremantle-generic-pr removed and incompatible pkg installed?22:19
danny___DocScrutinizer: ok thanks i will look into backupmenu22:19
MohammadAGno, I meant if you're flashing it, go with PR1.322:19
DocScrutinizerthat's the purpose of the whole enterprise22:19
FIQbut i can't see how charged the device is :(22:20
FIQdue to no images, no fonts, nothing22:20
DocScrutinizerlock, watch LED22:20
FIQok, _some_ images, like BG22:20
FIQoh, true22:20
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DocScrutinizerGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR mp-fremantle-generic-pr what a PITA22:21
FIQlol, i had _one_ image in the menu - a broken xterm icon22:22
_0x47Hi all, how can I check in debian/preinst if installation was called from HAM (instead of apt-get)?22:26
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DocScrutinizerYAY, even when removing the conflicting pkgs, an apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr isn't exactly cheering22:28
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DocScrutinizer978 upgraded, 27 newly installed, 1 to remove and 31 not upgraded.22:29
DocScrutinizerNeed to get 69,8MB of archives.22:29
DocScrutinizerAfter this operation, 25,1MB of additional disk space will be used.22:29
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DocScrutinizerwell fsckit, YES!! do it22:29
villagerare you sure it's not the pr1.3 mp-fremantle-generic-pr then?22:30
FIQDocScrutinizer, maybe you're attempting to do an upgrade22:30
* DocScrutinizer is fetching popcorn and a can of tranquilizers22:30
FIQbecause of the use of mp-generic-fremantle-pr is just that22:30
DocScrutinizerI'm sure it IS the pr1.322:30
DocScrutinizerthe whole purpose of this enterprise is an update to PR1.3 though22:31
DocScrutinizerand MohammadAG told me the PR1.2 mp-generic isn't available anymore22:31
DocScrutinizerso I'll happily watch it going bonkers, then reflash22:32
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DocScrutinizeror maybe first try to restore the image created with backmenu, just for fun22:32
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dado7hi people, good nights, Do we have rubybox or similar front end dosbox for our n900?22:37
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DocScrutinizerso far it's been a smooth ride - said the guy falling off the roof when he passed floor 1322:39
DocScrutinizer51meh, while xchat is running22:44
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DocScrutinizerUnpacking cherry (from .../cherry_0.25-1+0m5_armel.deb) ...    GRRRRR22:51
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ezistohello everyone , could anyone please give me a brief steps on how to get mer on my N900 ?22:52
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GAN900Mer is dead.22:54
DocScrutinizer* Error in type 'application/atom+xml'22:55
DocScrutinizer*   (in /usr/share/mime/packages/
DocScrutinizer*   Unknown field 'generic-icon'.22:55
DocScrutinizerUpdating icon cache...22:56
DocScrutinizerSetting up mp-fremantle-generic-pr (20.2010.36-2) ...22:56
ezistoi know its been substituted with meego but i just want to test it22:56
DocScrutinizernow let's see... ;-D22:56
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DocScrutinizer51hah, X restarted, xchat autostarted ;-D22:57
GAN900ezisto, info should be on the wiki.22:59
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ezistoi had a look at the wiki and i managed to get it to boot, the problem is touch screen is not working23:01
ezistoand in order to boot it i had to use NITDroid kernel, so i guess this is the problem23:02
MohammadAGsudo tscalibrate23:03
MohammadAGattempt to calibrate it23:03
MohammadAGyou can't boot maemo with the nitdroid kernel23:03
ezistonot maemo23:04
ezistoI'm talking about Mer23:04
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DocScrutinizer51meh, update done, SIP still borked23:08
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DocScrutinizer51aah now it works23:09
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DocScrutinizer51now for cherries23:11
ZogGMohammadAG let's port ms-dos to n900 =)23:12
ZogGVenemo, ping23:12
VenemoZogG, pong. I'm way over my head right now, thanks to both my gf and my family :(23:13
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ZogGVenemo =(23:13
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ZogGsmall question though?23:14
VenemoZogG: I'm listening23:14
ZogG -> 3.2  How to Implement a Callback in C ?23:14
ZogGcan it be usefull /used by me?23:14
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VenemoZogG, yes, all C frameworks use this concept :)23:15
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ZogGVenemo nice, than i wouldn't even need that mucg that notify function23:18
VenemoZogG: actually, that function does the same thing under the hood23:20
VenemoZogG: you give it a pointer to a callback function which it will call back23:20
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ZogGVenemo, ok - i would try to dig into it23:21
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crashanddiesup people23:21
ZogGbut you talk to me when you have time coz i would need help23:21
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crashanddiewtf is meego.gitorious in the topic+23:22
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VenemoZogG, of course23:24
VenemoZogG, I'm very sorry for this. I know I promised you, but my father has some stuff that need to be done very urgently23:24
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ZogGVenemo, no worries23:25
pupnik_clalbacks in gtk confuzed me for quite a while23:25
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FIQi've reflashed again, and now i'm back at the "not booting" state23:31
FIQuh, what23:32
FIQafter like 5 minutes23:32
FIQthe first boot is longer, but if i reminded correct it weren't that long23:32
FIQoh well23:32
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pupnik_FIQ: you got a booting device?23:36
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FIQyes :D23:40
FIQa clean one as well23:40
FIQ(which i've wanted for weeks but been to lazy to reflash)23:41
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_0x47Hi, how can I check if an installation was started from HAM or apt-get in script (debian/preinst)?23:50
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_0x47in a* script23:51
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: CSSU installed - what now?? :-D23:52
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer, it goes like this:23:54
merlin1991install cssu23:54
DocScrutinizerFSCK, brighness applet has ONE setting >:-(23:55
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DocScrutinizernow THAT IS *GREAT*23:55
ZogGFIQ \o/ welcome back23:55
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ZogGDocScrutinizer more than one options for pussies =)23:57
DocScrutinizerdon't get me started, I'm seriously pissed!!!23:58
DocScrutinizerWHAT A SHIT IS THIS??23:59
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: /quit23:59
DocScrutinizernah, I need somebody to shout at23:59

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