| * ShadowJK uses uSD swap all the time | 00:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | others say they use that config all the time | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| luke-jr | weird | 00:00 |
| Turtle^^ | i was thinking about taking some space space from 0p2 or 0p1 in hopes that they maybe fatster | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: maybe your back cover magnet is loose? ;-P | 00:00 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: no, it's in there fine | 00:01 |
| luke-jr | how does the magnet affect the uSD? | 00:01 |
| luke-jr | actually, I don't think it's even a magnet | 00:01 |
| luke-jr | x.x | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Turtle^^: eMMC is one flat 32GB storage chip, so mmcblk0pX are all same speed | 00:02 |
| Turtle^^ | :o | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: it IS a magnet, and it umounts and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver | 00:02 |
| Turtle^^ | oooohkay! | 00:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: quite obviously your swap on uSD will crash the whole system when back cover gets removed or "removed" | 00:04 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: why? | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh? you're *still* asking why? | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Swap pages being not present does bad stuff. | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | unplug your HDD with swap on it from your desktop PC to learn why | 00:05 |
| * SpeedEvil proposed ages ago per-user swap. | 00:05 | |
| javispedro | luke-jr: try booting stock kernel with back cover removed, access sdcard. | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | magnet removal might trigger an umount, but that would fail if it's swap in use | 00:05 |
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| luke-jr | magnet removal != uSD removal | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: NOPE | 00:05 |
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| ShadowJK | magnet removal causes pretty much the same behaviour as removing the uSD :-) | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | the low level kernel driver for the uSD slot even powers down the slot | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | so magnet removal == sd card removal | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | which part of ""... and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver..." was too fuzzy? | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | hildon-home in portrait mode, PoC http://i56.tinypic.com/2wcjz1z.jpg | 00:08 |
| ShadowJK | And it definitely is a magnet. The first Mugen back covers didn't have a magnet, so I smashed apart the headphones included with my N810 and harvested the tiny magnet in them, taped it to the cover, and microsd card worked again :-) | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's definitely the magnet that also holds the kickstand | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | the hall switch is next to that | 00:09 |
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| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, you could've patched the uSD driver so it always returns false :P | 00:11 |
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| Irctime_ | :D | 00:13 |
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| Irctime_ | this was me on usd swapon and removing the backcover :D | 00:13 |
| Irctime_ | device reboots instantly | 00:13 |
| MohammadAG | lemme guess, reboot? | 00:13 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 00:13 |
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| turtle^^ | yea | 00:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - HAL device:'/dev/mmcblk1p3' removed: | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - UDI^I : /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_part3_size_139460608 | 00:17 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, mafw actually has code to monitor the card | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: prop_modified:1889: udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_mmci_omap_hs_0_mmc_host modified button.state.value | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: event_in_cover_closed:1209: E_OPENED for ext-MMC | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Feb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 kernel: [84791.120025] mmc0: card 697b removed | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw mmcblk1p3 is a linux swap partition size 128MB on that uSD | 00:23 |
| pupnik | what are you doing DocScrutinizer ? | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, that uSd partitioning predates N900, it actually has kernel on a ~13GB VFAT p1 that'S also used for general data sharing and dump, p2 is ext3 holding a SHR system for FR, p3 are 128MB swap | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ext3/ext3 rootfs/ | 00:26 |
| pupnik | has someone figured out a way to install the root filesystem to mmc / SD and bultiboot that? | 00:26 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: nah, that uSd partitioning predates N900, it actually has kernel on a ~13GB VFAT p1 that'S also used for general data sharing and dump, p2 is ext3 rootfs holding a SHR system for FR, p3 are 128MB swap | 00:26 |
| turtle^^ | so as you said emmc is one big 32gb thing, no matter where the swap is it wont have any effects on speed right? cuz thats what i wanted but i guess it can only give us more space if we make the swap smaller, thats the only benefit we can get right? | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: ack for the speed part - sorry "can't parse" for the rest | 00:27 |
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| pupnik | he wants to make swap smaller to get 'more space' | 00:28 |
| alterego | What, 5 megs? :D | 00:28 |
| alterego | swap is 512M | 00:28 |
| alterego | Do you really need that? | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: one suggested solution to the swap fragmentation was to split the way too huge 750MB swap int two, then do a swapon 1&&swapoff 2 every 24h | 00:29 |
| pupnik | Swap: 786424 139996 646428 on my device | 00:29 |
| turtle^^ | no i dont want a smaller swap .. just wanted to speed it up | 00:29 |
| javispedro | pupnik: I think that yes, someone cloned maemo to mmc and booted it from there (iirc the problem was pin entry dialog crashing) | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: resucing fragmentation will speed up swapping | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask ShadowJK | 00:30 |
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| turtle^^ | hmm | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | turtle^^: that's the root cause for "device gets sluggish after 3 days uptime" issue | 00:31 |
| turtle^^ | aha | 00:31 |
| turtle^^ | i dont mind rebooting device hehe | 00:31 |
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| ShadowJK | What I do: swap on a separate partition on uSD. With "iostat -m" (part of sysstat in extras-devel), when the amount of bytes written to swap partition exceeds the size of swap partition, I swapon internal mmcblk0p3 swap, swapoff usd, swapon usd, swapoff mmcblk0p3. Typically after 2-4 days of "normal" use the amount written to swap has become big enough to warrant the swapon,swapoff,swapon,swapoff cycle. Or, an hour or two of fennec use :P | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | only other tuning for swap is moving it to uSD, so the interface to eMMC doesn'T get congested with swapping while it should read/write to files | 00:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nice :-))) mind to share the exact scripts? | 00:33 |
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| turtle^^ | cool | 00:34 |
| turtle^^ | maybe have both the swap partitions on usd | 00:35 |
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| turtle^^ | and swapon/off there | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | can do that as well | 00:35 |
| turtle^^ | emmc remains untouched | 00:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 00:35 |
| javispedro | moving it to swap makes the device go quickly hot here | 00:35 |
| javispedro | (so I guess it reduces battery life) | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you don't need to move all the swapped out pages TWO times | 00:35 |
| javispedro | *moving it to sd :P | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/reswap.sh.txt adjust it for your needs, etc | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | echo 0 > reswap.stat on boot | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you're a hero | 00:36 |
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| ShadowJK | I just manually run it whenever device starts feeling sluggish | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, no problem. you can help me with some highschool-level electronics later :P | 00:37 |
| pupnik | has anyone re-attached their flaky usb? | 00:37 |
| mortenvp | Hi guys, trying to do a: "sudo mad-admin create -f fremantle-pr13" | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | a please :-D | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | a pleasure | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | grr, if I manage to kickstart the other half of my brain until then ;-) | 00:37 |
| mortenvp | But it fails with a: "Can not find '/usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/cache/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz' -- no such file." | 00:38 |
| nox- | moin | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: nothing heard about such execise, but should be simple | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ohno, abill-uk did :-P | 00:38 |
| Macer | so with the advent of winmob on nokia phones... how will maemo fair? | 00:39 |
| mortenvp | Any advise on how to get the fremantle target.. A url or something? | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | Well Maemo was already buried before winmob :P | 00:39 |
| Macer | heh | 00:39 |
| * pupnik looks at maemo and thinks it's basically awesome | 00:39 | |
| Macer | the meego stuff is getting there on the n900 | 00:39 |
| Macer | yeah pupnik it is a shame really | 00:40 |
| Macer | they really dropped the ball with maemo | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo isn't dead until they roll out the poisoned m6 | 00:40 |
| Macer | hah | 00:40 |
| Macer | isnt't meego m6? | 00:40 |
| Macer | :) | 00:40 |
| Macer | i like what stskeeps is trying to do tho | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | m6 maemo-harmattan meego lookalike BS | 00:41 |
| Macer | trying to open up the n900 as much as he can to get it in the mainstream arm kernel | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | while sacrificing all the real good things in maemo | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | without any need | 00:42 |
| Macer | sounds like a backport | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | CSSU is the real effort to get maemo to a state where it's 100% upstream ready | 00:42 |
| javispedro | well. | 00:42 |
| Macer | well. maemo isnt the problem | 00:43 |
| pupnik | i hate people who say 'nokia has no ecosystem' - what are we? chopped liver? | 00:43 |
| Macer | nokia/ti is ;) | 00:43 |
| Macer | afa the n900 is concerned | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: We're what remains after the planes with the agent orange in have been over. | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG | so many things that could've been fixed, if stuff was open source | 00:43 |
| * javispedro shouts STANDARD NERDS! then goes back to typing ROLLBACK TRANSACTION TO SAVEPOINT ... | 00:43 | |
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| MohammadAG | if a hildon-home in portrait mode concept took less than 5 minutes | 00:44 |
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| MohammadAG | it only proves that in 1 year, there was no effort to get it done | 00:44 |
| turtle^^ | sigh | 00:44 |
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| pupnik | MohammadAG: what would you want to do in portrait mode. 1) phone 2) sms 3)....? | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ooooh, that's been a nice one :-) | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | phone works fine | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | conversations just needs the portrait flag and minor fixes | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I feel like having taken a deep breath of agent orange | 00:46 |
| MohammadAG | mediaplayer needs a whole new layout, can be easily done | 00:46 |
| Macer | you can put hildon in portrait? | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | Would be cool to have fontsize change back in conversations | 00:46 |
| turtle^^ | whats an agent orange ? | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | in fact I did - well sorta - some 30 yeard ago | 00:46 |
| jacekowski | turtle^^: google it | 00:46 |
| jacekowski | turtle^^: it's a defoliant | 00:46 |
| MohammadAG | Macer, concept: http://i56.tinypic.com/2wcjz1z.jpg | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: And has been for OMP? | 00:46 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, yeah | 00:46 |
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| Macer | MohammadAG: that was some sort of "bug" | 00:47 |
| Macer | i thought that was some sort of debugging thing | 00:47 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: did you spend some time in vietnam in 1980? | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG | Macer, no, it's my edits to hildon-desktop's code... | 00:47 |
| Macer | oh | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/nowplayingwindow.cpp#line243 | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik: they sold the same shit to varnish your wood ceiling in Europe | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | google xyladecor | 00:48 |
| Macer | well... the maemo base is all in place for the n900 | 00:48 |
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| MohammadAG | Macer, the "bug" you mentioned kept widgets aligned horizontally | 00:49 |
| Macer | MohammadAG: yeah | 00:49 |
| MohammadAG | my edit unlocks positioning, although it's not neat | 00:49 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer51: only in germany | 00:49 |
| Macer | the status bar would also fall off the screen | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | oh | 00:49 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa's trying to get an algorithm for this | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | well, dosn't help me out ;-D | 00:50 |
| Macer | either way... maemo has all the parts required for the n900 | 00:50 |
| Macer | all it would really need is either a better hildon or a new interface | 00:50 |
| * Jaffa might mock something up. | 00:50 | |
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| Jaffa | Algorithmically, not graphically :-) | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG | hildon is epic | 00:51 |
| Jaffa | I love my N900. Just wish it was faster and had some bugs fixed. | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG | it just needs someone to pick it up | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG | same | 00:51 |
| Macer | MohammadAG: it is pretty good. but there are no devs that want to do much with it | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, ever thought about something? in Qt we listen to screen size changed, in some gtk apps, the apps listen to mce signals | 00:52 |
| Macer | since in 5 years n900s will be collectors items | 00:52 |
| Macer | :) | 00:52 |
| MohammadAG | that means layout fixing starts after rotation | 00:52 |
| MohammadAG | Macer, that's the problem | 00:52 |
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| MohammadAG | I'm actually excited about Cordia | 00:52 |
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| Macer | cordia? | 00:52 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo + Hildon | 00:52 |
| Macer | oh | 00:53 |
| Macer | i saw a yt video of it | 00:53 |
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| Macer | i just hope meego supports all the n900 hw before 2015 | 00:54 |
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| jonwil | I think that if Nokia can help with http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant, we can do great things with the N900 :) | 00:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed! | 00:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | We could all buy a share, and go to the next stockholders meeting. :) | 00:55 |
| jonwil | it would be even better if we could have source code to thinks like the dialer app. But that's never going to happen :( | 00:55 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer51: why do they outlaw all decent wood-protection :/ | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it doesn't taste good enough. It's concidered cruel to offer such evel stuff for suicide | 00:56 |
| pupnik | jonwil: is there a meego dialer app yet? | 00:56 |
| jonwil | no idea. | 00:57 |
| jonwil | But even if there is, there is no way its going to be a suitable replacement for the maemo dialer app on maemo. | 00:57 |
| javispedro | of course there is, pupnik. | 00:57 |
| javispedro | wheter it sucks or not... | 00:57 |
| pupnik | javispedro: can it run on maemo? | 00:57 |
| jonwil | the maemo dialer app is tied to too many other things to be replaced easily | 00:58 |
| javispedro | pupnik: for a start it will require ofono. | 00:58 |
| mortenvp | Hi guys, I'm looking for the following file: fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz is it available somewhere | 00:58 |
| MohammadAG | Qt SDK installer should dl it | 00:58 |
| mortenvp | MohammadAG, ok - so do I have to use the Nokia Qt SDK to get it.. I was hoping I could download it and use it with madde without installing the Nokia Qt SDK | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | ah, not sure, sorry | 01:00 |
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| pupnik | my app manager no-longer shows the pr 1.3 ota update... what can i apt-get to do the pr 1.3 update? i have Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 | 01:00 |
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| yigal | what is the command line command to start easy debian chroot, I want to start a session via ssh? | 01:01 |
| pupnik | apt-get install mp-fremantle-203-pr ? | 01:01 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: got a n900? | 01:02 |
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| pupnik | javispedro: fixed the waterdamaged one! | 01:03 |
| javispedro | O.O | 01:03 |
| pupnik | alcohol DOES solve some problems :D | 01:03 |
| javispedro | heh | 01:03 |
| javispedro | after so many months, and it survived? impressive! | 01:03 |
| pupnik | it's beautiful... /me tears | 01:03 |
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| yigal | really no one has ever wanted to start debian chroot via ssh? | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: haha :-D | 01:04 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: you can consider yourself very lucky =) | 01:04 |
| pupnik | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch09#_chroot_system | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 01:05 |
| yigal | yes, but if I remember there are special scripts for Easy Debian | 01:05 |
| yigal | that makes ure to mount things properly | 01:05 |
| javispedro | yigal: I suggest you ask on talk.maemo.org where the author posts some times | 01:05 |
| * javispedro uses his own chrooter at this point | 01:05 | |
| luke-jr | I wish Quassel2Go had a more X-Chat like UI | 01:05 |
| yigal | qoles a very cool dude | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | with channels on the left and change via the volume control | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: maybe switch to xchat? | 01:06 |
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| yigal | irssi | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | blargh | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: xchat loses out on stuff people say when I lose signal :P | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh I see | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, probably it'd be easy to patch sth like ZNC a tiny bit, and patch xchat just so uch as to send a ACK for each pkt sent by ZNC | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZNC already supports buffering and playback on connect, it just needs a bit faster disconnect on conection stall | 01:09 |
| RaveniquE | goodnight everybody | 01:11 |
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| pupnik | znc sounds good | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I'm a bit pizzled about IRC being tcp and still it doesn't norice about lost packets | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | notice* | 01:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and puzzled* | 01:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer heads to the corner, weeping | 01:13 | |
| ShadowJK | it's generally a bit cumbersome from an app to figure out what packets have made it to the other side and what hasn't | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | TCP is only badly affected y lost pacets at >25% or so | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Interactrive TCP | 01:13 |
| * SpeedEvil played a lot of MUDs | 01:13 | |
| pupnik | :) | 01:13 |
| luke-jr | OMFG | 01:13 |
| jonwil | btw I am 100% convinced that it would be possible to figure out all the non-UI stuff needed to write a dialer replacement, it would just be a matter of finding someone familiar with Telepathy, Mission Control, osso, dbus, libhal and glib | 01:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | When exponential backoff kicks in, it gets unpleasant. | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | Quassel2Go doesn't support downloading backscroll at all | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | idiots | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | wtf is the point | 01:14 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such? | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | no | 01:14 |
| ShadowJK | From the "2go" part I assume they made a "mobile" version, and removed the one feature that makes standard quassel good for mobile use? | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | it can't | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | it does | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | IRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | it isn't forging | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: yeah | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | well, *someone* did | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: forging is what I want :p | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | [01:14:50] <luke-jr> IRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | it does that ^ | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | servers don't send timestamps to clients in general, not in any meaningful way anyway :) | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: that's the problem | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | But inter-server protocol is all about time stamps :) | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | when I rejoin, I don't want everything in history timestamped as connect-time | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZNC does | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | let's patch freenode! | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: meh, maybe I'll try it | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | My N900 just never loses connectivity :> | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: impossible in the US :p | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | N900 doesn't support any carrier with decent coverage | 01:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [00:15] <luke-jr> (00:13) DocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such? | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, to the client, the timestamp is connect-stamp sadly | 01:16 |
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| MohammadAG | if you have timestamps enabled in xchat that is | 01:16 |
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| luke-jr | -.- | 01:17 |
| * jonwil suspects that finding someone with telepathy skills is going to be almost impossible :P | 01:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | first is xchat reception time, second is ZNC real send time | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, he wants the xchat time to be forged | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | which is something I've never seen | 01:18 |
| pupnik | how do you guys turn-off the cell radio when you don't need it? | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't fly, that's locally generated | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | yep | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | IRC doesn't send timestamps | 01:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik: there is an applet | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: tablet mode | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | or airplane mode | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Also - offlinemode sometimes | 01:19 |
| pupnik | k... looking for that | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | powerbutton | 01:19 |
| pupnik | lol ty | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | powerbutton menu | 01:20 |
| yigal | ok so that was easy enough after a bit of searching, mkdir ~/.debian2 && quserchroot /media/mmc1/debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2 ~/.debian2, or something similar | 01:20 |
| psycho_oreos | there's alarmed that can set to airplane mode iirc | 01:20 |
| pupnik | totally forgot about that menu | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's an update to alarmed that's nagging me every 24h, but has conflicts :-( | 01:22 |
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| MohammadAG | Qt? | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 01:22 |
| * jonwil thinks the idea of a maemo distmaster is a good idea | 01:23 | |
| MohammadAG | we have no distmaster | 01:23 |
| jonwil | someone suggested becoming one and working with Nokia to release more code | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why jonwil says it's a good idea ;-) | 01:23 |
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| jonwil | someone who could prepare code that is releasable for release and could also potentially fix bugs (and push binaries) in code that cant be released | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | I already asked if they could do that themselves | 01:26 |
| MohammadAG | apparently, the devs can't | 01:26 |
| jonwil | I think the issue is that | 01:26 |
| jonwil | that Nokia doesn't have the resources to do anything | 01:26 |
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| divan | hmm.. while untarring archives (.ipk files, actually) I've got unexpected reboots on N900 a few times. Latest power kernel and swappolube enabled. | 01:27 |
| yigal | jonwil: and by that you mean brain power in high up places | 01:27 |
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| jonwil | No, I mean people to review the code and remove anything that cant be released. | 01:28 |
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| jonwil | e.g. remove internal email addresses, intranet URLs and other such things | 01:28 |
| yigal | yes I know that you didn't mean that, but I did | 01:28 |
| Jaffa | jonwil: DocScrutinizer: Sent email to Nokia about pending licence changes. qgil's in Helsinki next week so will have some chats. | 01:28 |
| jonwil | sounds good | 01:29 |
| jonwil | That list of 8 or so requests covers all the closed source things that A.Have a valid use case for being opened up and B.Are actually likely to be opened up | 01:29 |
| jonwil | The list doesn't include things people asked for without a valid use case | 01:30 |
| pupnik | RST38h: btw i'd like to suggest changing controls in vulture's eye.. make the arrow keys do 'diagonals' only when combined with CTRL key | 01:30 |
| * MohammadAG wants the dialer open sourced | 01:30 | |
| jonwil | so do I | 01:30 |
| MohammadAG | mediaplayer, not so much, already challenged Nokia there | 01:31 |
| jonwil | but thats never going to happen | 01:31 |
| pupnik | why not jonwil ? | 01:31 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik, you can never be optimistic on #maemo :P | 01:31 |
| jonwil | Nokia have already said that "User Experience/UI" is a "point of difference" | 01:31 |
| pupnik | the UI of Dialer? | 01:32 |
| jonwil | and thats why they wont open up their UX like the dialer or messaging app | 01:32 |
| jonwil | Also, opening up the dialer pulls in a lot of other lower level stuff that they may not want to open or publish | 01:32 |
| pupnik | ah i see | 01:32 |
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| jonwil | I am sure that Jaffa and others would agree with me that its not worth asking Nokia about the dialer when there are other things that are far more likely to be opened up that we can ask for | 01:33 |
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| MohammadAG | bme isn't one of them :p | 01:34 |
| jonwil | yeah asking for BME to be opened wont help | 01:34 |
| jonwil | but I think the 8 items we asked for have a reasonable chance of success | 01:34 |
| jonwil | hildon-plugins-notify-sv should be possible, I suspect the main "secret sauce" in there would be in the way it controls audio routing and priority to ensure ringtones can override anything else being played | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | isn't that part of hildon-home? | 01:36 |
| jonwil | no | 01:36 |
| jonwil | its a separate package | 01:36 |
| jonwil | called hildon-plugins-notify-sv | 01:36 |
| jonwil | There is a notification daemon thats part of hildon-home | 01:36 |
| jonwil | which loads the plugin hildon-plugins-notify-sv and talks to it | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | hildon-sv-notification-daemon | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | my bad | 01:37 |
| jonwil | My guess is it was originally closed source because of the details of it talking to the audio stack | 01:37 |
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| jonwil | I think the main issue with the SMS code is that opening up libsms and csd-sms is going to require opening dev packages for libisi and stuff (they said in the past "no we cant open that stuff up because it pulls in the modem control protocol") | 01:40 |
| jonwil | Although that was probably before ofono-n900 existed | 01:41 |
| pupnik | fresh new battery is a nice thing | 01:41 |
| jonwil | any argument of "we cant open this up because it exposes details of the cell modem" can likely be countered with "anything exposed by this will also be exposed by the ofono source code" | 01:41 |
| pupnik | is ofono what the openmoko guys used? | 01:42 |
| pupnik | nice jonwil | 01:42 |
| jonwil | no, the FreeSmartPhone guys working on n900 are using ogsmd | 01:43 |
| jonwil | although I think they borrowed bits of ofono code for it | 01:43 |
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| jonwil | The request for Fremantle MCE, not sure how likely that is, I guess it depends on whether there is anything left in there that is sensitive | 01:44 |
| jonwil | and if there is, how hard it would be to remove | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | jonwil, http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/merge_requests/2 | 01:45 |
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| MohammadAG | the fact that something as easy as that is "Open" defines laziness :P | 01:45 |
| RiD | Hi | 01:45 |
| jonwil | :) | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: nope, OM/SHR is using FSO | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | where FSO >> ofono | 01:46 |
| pupnik | ok and meego is using ofono? | 01:47 |
| jonwil | I am hoping that the ICD request can be fulfulled | 01:47 |
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| jonwil | there are some good things that would be possible with some of the ICD stuff] | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: ofono borrowed by FSO, FSO borrowed by ofono, both rely on openmodemapi specs | 01:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: yep, afaik meego is based on ofono | 01:48 |
| jonwil | actually ofono was written by Nokia employees and does actually contain code taken from the previous telephony stack | 01:48 |
| jonwil | i.e. its not a cleanroom implementation | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | while I stopped to bitch on them to switch to FSO :-P | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: sure | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ofono just is plagued by severe NIH syndrome | 01:49 |
| * jonwil hopes N900 MeeGo gets GPS | 01:50 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | afaik FSO has been there prior to ofono, but the ofono guys put down FSO offer to cooperate and join into one project, by the rationale of FSO being a mere AT interface to modem. Now ofono is more of a AT interface than FSO :-P | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil1 | GPS is easy | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil1 | We can do GPS today. Not AGPS -but... | 01:51 |
| RiD | Hmm, i feel like i'm the little mouse hiding from those big cats. | 01:51 |
| pupnik | hi RiD | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | FSO is a comprehensive middleware covering all from ofono/ISI over mce til alsa-ped | 01:52 |
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| MohammadAG | hey RiD | 01:52 |
| RiD | pupnik: hi :) | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | while ofono became what they objected to FSO | 01:52 |
| jonwil | All that we have for GPS at this point is an incomplete reverse engineering of a handful of the couple dozen packets sent to the GPS resourcfe | 01:53 |
| jonwil | resource | 01:53 |
| RiD | MohammadAG: Hi, I still remember the Snap to Grid failure i did. | 01:53 |
| MohammadAG | set it to 0? :) | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil1 | jonwil: It can connect to the GPS, and get a position. | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil1 | jonwil: I agree APGS would benice | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | what we have for GPS is the complete specs for the cmt FW verion yet to come for N900 :-P | 01:53 |
| RiD | MohammadAG: Yes, I promise i won't be half asleep anymore. | 01:54 |
| MohammadAG | heh, you might be able to recover with R&D mode if you do it again :p | 01:54 |
| jonwil | Last I heard the right people are working on porting the Maemo GPS stack to MeeGo with the intent of releasing it | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | so odds are meego never will see the GPS API for the cmt FW version we got on N900 | 01:55 |
| * Arkenoi is still in confusion about auto rotation. It seems to be enabling and disabling in quite a random fashion. Say, i have it "enabled" in messaging, then i switch to fbreader, it is disabled there, i press ctrl-shift-R and whoops -- it is enabled in fbreader and instantly disabled in messaging | 01:55 | |
| RiD | Oh, talking about R&D mode, didn't disabled it. I'm really lazy when it comes to certain things. | 01:55 |
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| jonwil | I think what was said is that once its made to work, discussions about making bits of it open source will follow | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | RiD: R&D will eat your batery | 01:56 |
| jonwil | I think there is no objection to releasing the GPS information, just that its easier to port the existing code than to write a new implemenation | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil1 | Just dump the code. | 01:57 |
| jonwil | dump what code? | 01:57 |
| SpeedEvil1 | I mean - who has a rapuyama GPS. | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: this BS about "first implement then open" gets me upset every time they do that | 01:57 |
| SpeedEvil1 | It's not a commercial issue. | 01:57 |
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| jonwil | it may be that there are issues with proprietary algorithims used in the userspace bits | 01:57 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer: My battery never really lasted more than one day (before R&D and after). But will disable it, maybe tomorrow. | 01:57 |
| * SpeedEvil has real doubts as to 'magik seeeeekrit algorithms'. | 01:58 | |
| jonwil | in any case there is nothing more I can do as far as pushing for things to be opened (I would file a bug asking for dialer UI to be opened but I figure that would just be a waste of my time and everyone elses) | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | After the whole BME thing. | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ARRRRRGH | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | magic secret BS how to kill batteries | 01:59 |
| pupnik | part of the problem is the software-patents that came out of the USA like a cancer | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | the only secret it there's no secret and they don't want to admit they have NFC about it | 02:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so when Nokia says "bme has secrets" they actually mean "bme is arcane... to us" | 02:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OTOH from what I heard Nokia might get sued for bodily and metal harm done to all of us, when disclosing the bme sources | 02:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and from what I've witnessed when RE'ing bme behaviour, I'm inclined to believe in that | 02:04 |
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| javispedro | mental, mental harm. | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | bme is the typical case where watching the actions of a program inevitably invokes nightmares about how the sourcecode will look like | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, yeah | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | heavy mental harm | 02:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | There was an interesting talk at defcon 18 (17?) About using compiler to obfuscate asm. | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | so, just another time (I stopped counting): we DO NOT WANT BME DISCLOSED, please keep it, please delete and shredder it, a nine year old child probably would write a better program | 02:07 |
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| trumee | guys, how good does icedtea6 perform on N900. I know of a student who has to do a java based project. The student could develop something for N900. | 02:09 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, is finalize called when a widget is destroyed? | 02:15 |
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| javispedro | when any gobject is finally destroyed | 02:16 |
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| MohammadAG | so I should unref objects there right? | 02:19 |
| javispedro | technically not, you should unref them in dispose | 02:19 |
| javispedro | however, what are you doing that requires you do to override a finalizer? | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: fine :-) Hope you can convince him about the need for opensourcing more stuff for maemo, to back up whatever direction the Nokia FOSS ship is sailing (meego is based on maemo knowledge, and fails where it's not ;-D ), and maybe you can convnce him it's worth a few hundered bucks/month to support greatest community ever affiliated to Nokia | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/ekujutML javispedro | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, not sure, the docs had it in the example :P | 02:21 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: I see that you're defining a new gobject but I also see that you're missing a lot of the gobject boilerplate. :S | 02:22 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, .h file? | 02:22 |
| javispedro | nope, orientation_lock_status_plugin_class_init | 02:22 |
| javispedro | ah yes | 02:23 |
| javispedro | sorry, I see it now. | 02:23 |
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| javispedro | but you should override the finalizer in the class init function. | 02:23 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: http://pastebin.com/Jn3QLg2u | 02:24 |
| javispedro | see how it overrides both dispose and finalize | 02:24 |
| javispedro | dispose used to unref owned objects, finalize used to anything else and final destruction | 02:24 |
| MohammadAG | well, I just need to unref priv->gconf_client | 02:25 |
| RiD | It's funny how many people are actually connected to this chat but only a few are talking. I do have to stop reading those monospaced Courier New characters, they're so small (of course i can use zoom but i'm lazy!) Going to sleep, I don't want to do half-asleep problems like i did before. Bye everyone ;) | 02:25 |
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| RiD | I mean, *room not chat. Well, it's a chat anyways. | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | G_OBJECT_CLASS(grm_pvt_parent_class)->finalize(object); \o/ I *love* c++ (while this is actually a macro not exactly related to c++ first instance) | 02:26 |
| MohammadAG | isn't this C? | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure, looks like c++ to me | 02:27 |
| APTX | it's c | 02:27 |
| javispedro | it's gobject C =) | 02:27 |
| APTX | gobject crap is c | 02:28 |
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| jonwil | If we had libbmeipc headers, it would be trivial to write a drop-in BME replacement for maemo that supported all the BME bits that things like hald-addon-bme and pulseaudio-modules-nokia-closed-source require | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 02:44 |
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| pupnik | what's the better-font for terminal again | 02:48 |
| pupnik | i have courier and it's too light | 02:48 |
| pupnik | all the noise posters since n900 release on t.m.o really suck that site down | 02:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | I personally use android fonts for console | 02:52 |
| psycho_oreos | s/console/XTerminal/ | 02:52 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: I personally use android fonts for XTerminal | 02:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if Nokia came out with a rather silly industry standard requirements spec, as in "thermal: monitor R1130/ADCIN0 for >1255 := OVERTEMP, cell >75°C, stop charging, limit discharging to 500mA, <312 :=UNERTEMP, stop all charging. || 911: disable all protective functions on IPC telegram like in bmeipc.h struct signal-ISI-emergencycall || charging: CCCV 4.200V 800mA, follow bq27200 scheme for recharge...." we even could implemet a drop-in | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | replacement for bme that gives Nokia the cosy feeling that their battery is treated with all the love and care it deserves | 02:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | pupnik, Droid Sans Mono @ 12 is what I personally use | 02:57 |
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| pupnik | psycho_oreos: can you help jog my memory how to set the terminal font? | 02:58 |
| pupnik | i suppose this is a .ttf | 02:58 |
| psycho_oreos | nfi, but under X Terminal there's that down arrow followed by Font to set the fonts | 02:59 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah they are .ttf files | 03:00 |
| psycho_oreos | placed in: /opt/maemo/usr/share/fonts/truetype | 03:00 |
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| tga | hello | 03:10 |
| pupnik | ty psycho_oreos | 03:12 |
| psycho_oreos | pupnik, found what you were looking for? :) | 03:12 |
| pupnik | yah it's strange how information gets lost in the brain | 03:12 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 03:13 |
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| pupnik | i LOVE "easyplayer" ! | 03:14 |
| tga | is there a way to install a full linux environment on a n800? | 03:14 |
| tga | I don't care much about battery life so I'd like a regular system with a full cron and all that | 03:14 |
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| psycho_oreos | maybe via chroot? | 03:15 |
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| tga | psycho_oreos: ideally I'd like to fully remove maemo and install something like debian | 03:15 |
| psycho_oreos | tga, then again the support status maybe varied | 03:16 |
| tga | I can't find that much on this online | 03:16 |
| tga | some people with broken android | 03:16 |
| tga | easy debian as a maemo package | 03:16 |
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| pupnik | tga: not so many people are interested in that | 03:19 |
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| tga | pupnik: indeed, whoever was interested in nokia tables moved to a n900 by now | 03:20 |
| tga | and even those aren't that many | 03:20 |
| tga | tablets rather | 03:20 |
| psycho_oreos | there was a project to get gentoo onto NIT devices, don't know if that's available for N800 nor would it allow native booting | 03:20 |
| tga | I was hoping to be able to use this n800 as a generic computer running linux or bsd | 03:20 |
| tga | with touchscreen+sound+wireless | 03:21 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr was working on gentoo | 03:21 |
| tga | it looks like I'm asking too much, might have to make do with maemo | 03:21 |
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| tga | ShadowJK: interesting | 03:22 |
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| luke-jr | tga: we had Gentoo working, but I haven't updated in a while (my N810's battery is totally dead) | 03:24 |
| luke-jr | and slonopotamus screwed over the overlay -.- | 03:24 |
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| luke-jr | (at the very least, he deleted the MBX driver and moved the repo to github crap) | 03:24 |
| tga | luke-jr: do wifi and sound work? | 03:25 |
| luke-jr | tga: IIRC there was a problem with sound on N800 | 03:25 |
| tga | (that's what I need for a smart alarm clock) | 03:25 |
| luke-jr | N810 uses a different sound hardware, so worked | 03:25 |
| tga | yeah, I see the android guys couldn't get that working either | 03:25 |
| tga | maybe I'll just install cron on maemo and make do with that | 03:25 |
| luke-jr | heh | 03:25 |
| tga | it is almost debian after all | 03:25 |
| pupnik | n810 speakers are godly, but they do take up space | 03:26 |
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| tga | the n800 speakers are suddenly so much better after using my htc desire for a while | 03:26 |
| * tga just found the n800 abandoned in a drawer | 03:26 | |
| pupnik | :) | 03:26 |
| ArGGu^^ | does anyone know under what license file /usr/share/sounds/Emailalert1.aac is? | 03:26 |
| tga | ideally I'd like to rig a full screen web display on it and an alarm clock script | 03:27 |
| tga | http://maemo.org/packages/view/cron/ <-- will this work on a n800? | 03:27 |
| luke-jr | tga: Maemo 4 is beyond dead now | 03:28 |
| luke-jr | tga: you might try Gentoo with Maemo4-kernel with gstreamer | 03:29 |
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| tga | well the only thing I need and don't have atm is a cron | 03:30 |
| zanberdo | I've just installed an icon pack to my n900 but I haven't a clue how to select them for use... | 03:30 |
| tga | I can't figure out how to launch stuff at a given time | 03:30 |
| tga | luke-jr: any guide out there on playing with gentoo? | 03:30 |
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| luke-jr | tga: we made one, but it was on slonopotamus.org | 03:31 |
| luke-jr | nfc if it's still around | 03:31 |
| luke-jr | he seems to have imported it to https://github.com/slonopotamus/n8x0-overlay/wiki/main | 03:32 |
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| tga | is that reall usable? | 03:33 |
| tga | really rather | 03:33 |
| luke-jr | for CLI | 03:33 |
| tga | sound? | 03:33 |
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| luke-jr | tga: no idea. I don't have N800, just N810 | 03:34 |
| tga | doesn't sound promissing | 03:35 |
| psycho_oreos | well there's not much other choice :) | 03:35 |
| tga | with android tablets going under $200 now, I don't see a bright future for this n800 :) | 03:36 |
| tga | which is a shame, because the hardware is all there, a bit of software support would make it into an usable interface | 03:36 |
| tga | how about this, any idea whether I can get a totally full screen browser on default maemo? | 03:37 |
| psycho_oreos | on the contrary have a look at how 770 NIT owners would have fared :) | 03:37 |
| tga | what do you mean? | 03:37 |
| psycho_oreos | support for their devices is even more rare than that of N800 :) | 03:38 |
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| tga | right, also a shame | 03:39 |
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| psycho_oreos | unless you're a dev/hacker there isn't much one can do on a hardware that will soon face extinction with nokia. Its just how they work | 03:40 |
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| tga | too bad the hardware isn't more generic to just support a general-purpose distro | 03:41 |
| tga | I guess my master plan is to use it as a fullscreen display for a custom web page | 03:41 |
| tga | and see whether I can maybe also push sound to it | 03:41 |
| psycho_oreos | well you're talking about embedded devices :) they were meant to be used for things that were to consume as little battery as possible (which hardly is the case but nevertheless that was the original case) | 03:42 |
| psycho_oreos | s/original case/original plan/ | 03:42 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: well you're talking about embedded devices :) they were meant to be used for things that were to consume as little battery as possible (which hardly is the case but nevertheless that was the original plan) | 03:42 |
| tga | yeah, that's my problem with it wrt cron | 03:43 |
| tga | there is no real cron because it would eat too much battery | 03:43 |
| psycho_oreos | iinm arm devices are `tick-less' they don't have RTC to begin with | 03:44 |
| tga | well there is a clock on it | 03:47 |
| tga | argh, frustrating, there is no default way of making the screen never turn off | 03:47 |
| tga | max is 5 minutes | 03:48 |
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| tga | any ideas? | 03:48 |
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| lucent | tga: what do you mean about the screen? | 03:50 |
| tga | this n800 is fighting every attempt to make it useful | 03:50 |
| tga | by default the screen turns off after max 5 minutes | 03:50 |
| lucent | tga: if you get the applet that does screen brightness, it has a backlight control setting to keep it on always | 03:50 |
| lucent | would that be useful? | 03:51 |
| psycho_oreos | clock as in the hardware clock? hmm I thought I did see when compiling kernel for N900 there was an option with tickless | 03:51 |
| tga | umm yes | 03:51 |
| tga | brightness applet, I'll go check | 03:51 |
| psycho_oreos | N900 has that | 03:51 |
| lucent | I use that when I need to share my phone with somebody else, because other people new to using my phone get confused when the backlight turns off :) | 03:51 |
| lucent | "What do I ... DO!!!!!?!?!" | 03:52 |
| tga | waaait a minute, are you talking about the n900? | 03:52 |
| lucent | tga: yes, N900 and Maemo5 | 03:52 |
| nox- | keeping it on alway would eat battery... | 03:52 |
| lucent | nox-: alternative is other person gets mad and smashes my phone trying to make it "wake up" | 03:53 |
| tga | I'm trying to put a N800 to use here | 03:53 |
| lucent | ha. | 03:53 |
| nox- | lucent, tell him to just hit a key | 03:53 |
| lucent | question for you all today, my GSM internet connection on N900 drops sometimes, and when I go to reconnect the connection it tries a long time before failing | 03:54 |
| lucent | I must reboot the phone before it will get a network connection again | 03:54 |
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| lucent | how do I debug this? | 03:54 |
| Jaffa | lucent: Reflash out of the question? | 03:55 |
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| lucent | Jaffa: Reflash did not fix this issue, but if you're asking if I'm willing to reflash then answer is yes | 03:56 |
| lucent | this is a regular issue and I'm frustrated that rebooting the phone is a common procedure when I use it | 03:56 |
| lucent | every 2-3 days the GSM Internet connection won't connect anymore, reboot | 03:57 |
| nox- | lucent, have you tried installing that 2g/3g switcher applet and forcing it to 2g? | 03:57 |
| tga | hmm, what would be a good way to push sound from a web page to a n800 | 03:57 |
| tga | the browser doesn't quite do html5 | 03:57 |
| lucent | nox-: good question, I have Phone Settings set to 2G only and no-3g | 03:58 |
| nox- | lucent, ah hm ok thats probably the same effect | 03:58 |
| lucent | how do I know why it failed though? | 03:58 |
| * nox- has to force 2g only `sometimes' here, when 3g is down | 03:59 | |
| lucent | where is the process to type some commands and get log output that would tell us why this won't connect? | 03:59 |
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| psycho_oreos | dmesg | 04:00 |
| psycho_oreos | its not always in there though | 04:01 |
| nox- | i also saved this link: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control | 04:01 |
| nox- | tho havent really played with this stuff yet | 04:01 |
| lucent | psycho_oreos: good idea, nothing notable in dmesg | 04:01 |
| lucent | I don't know what my log level is though | 04:01 |
| psycho_oreos | lucent, yeah I guess most of the lower level stuff such as those are usually not very verbose | 04:03 |
| lucent | who would know, or where could I go to resolve this? | 04:07 |
| lucent | you folks are very helpful and I want you to know that I understand that much :) | 04:08 |
| lucent | "time to reboot" is not acceptable for me on a Linux based device. | 04:08 |
| psycho_oreos | forums sometimes would help :) | 04:08 |
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| * luke-jr Gate Hacking | 04:12 | |
| lucent | gate hacking? | 04:12 |
| luke-jr | yes | 04:12 |
| luke-jr | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJkriZLOnY | 04:13 |
| lucent | not finding anything about that on Google outside of vague game references | 04:13 |
| lucent | oh, it was a vague game reference. I understand now. | 04:14 |
| lucent | Thank you, Google. | 04:14 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe a custom kernel would be another option. Though you said before you've flashed the device before, was that both fiasco and emmc or just fiasco or emmc? | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | :P | 04:15 |
| lucent | psycho_oreos: I've left the emmc alone, I think. Just kernel / OS reflash never touch user data | 04:16 |
| psycho_oreos | lucent, ever installed something like autodisconnect? | 04:17 |
| lucent | psycho_oreos: no autodisconnect here | 04:17 |
| lucent | I am running a Titan kernel | 04:17 |
| lucent | on a stock install though it's the same problem, after 2-3 days of use it just won't get a successful 2G GSM / EDGE connection anymore for internet ; phone calls continue to work fine | 04:18 |
| psycho_oreos | lucent, and this issue happened just recently or has it been like that since the beginning? I'm starting to ponder whether it would be a hardware issue | 04:18 |
| lucent | since the beginning of owning my phone | 04:18 |
| lucent | greater than a year now | 04:18 |
| lucent | when I travel and there is 3G available, I think 3G only mode is fine and I do not have these problems | 04:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lucent: reflash plain system, completely incl /home (I.E eMMC/VANILLA), DO NOT restore anything from backup, test with the plain system. If it works you're facing a nice enterprise to find out which software is causing the error, if it does *not* work you should send in device for repair immediately | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | odds are this is a hw failure | 04:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lucent: make sure you are using the correct image for your area, there might be differences in cmt firmware taking care about particular peculiarities of some of your GSM carriers | 04:52 |
| lucent | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | just in case try and check back with your carrier's hotline, they might know about issues like that | 04:53 |
| lucent | it *is* T-Mobile | 04:54 |
| lucent | I'm not expecting miracles there | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | US? | 04:54 |
| lucent | yes sir | 04:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer frowns | 04:54 | |
| lucent | I'm in a ski town where several carriers compete for coverage of the resort slopes | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be the cause | 04:55 |
| lucent | I work there, and commute daily between coverage zones | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | US carriers practice cheerful anarchy regarding obedience to any standards. So it's not unlikely your special air situation is causing some conflict hat N900 cmt doesn't know how to handle. This would most likely not be a explicit bug in modem, but rather some idiocy of carrier setup. Your hotline might actually know details | 04:57 |
| lucent | oh! that's a surprise, really | 04:58 |
| lucent | I'm thinking in terms of what line of code must I forcibly rearrange to make this work | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt there can be done anything in linux land about it | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, first step: reflash to plain OOTB state | 05:00 |
| lucent | then why would reboot fix the symptom? | 05:00 |
| lucent | we don't know? | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | reboot also resets cmt | 05:00 |
| lucent | can I reset CMT without reboot? | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | though actually yiu'd think going airplane mode as well should do this | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, ^^^ | 05:01 |
| lucent | okay, I will try airplane mode now | 05:01 |
| lucent | power button press ; swipe unlock ; power button press ; Offline mode | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | airplane mode should power down all TX in N900, and goinf back to normal mode should restart | 05:01 |
| lucent | waited, now switching to normal mode | 05:03 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: you getting those speakers soon? i'd like you to confirm that they work | 05:04 |
| pupnik | since they look different than what i have here | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: do you know if cmt FW is flashed every time you flash COMBINED, or does it need some trick like downgrading and then upgrading again, or maybe changing to international and back to US version, to force a cmt FW flash? | 05:05 |
| lucent | "2.5"G indicator ; select "T-Mobile internet" from connection selector ; after about 30 seconds I get "Internet connection failed. Try again?" | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lucent: repeating procedure won't help | 05:05 |
| lucent | correct. rebooting now, to try | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should select auto for 2G/3G | 05:06 |
| lucent | why auto, if there is no 3G service anywhere around here? | 05:06 |
| lucent | not for hundreds of miles | 05:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because possibly forcing it to one band is creating problems that won't appear on auto. Auto is the genuine mode for modem | 05:07 |
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| lucent | okay. That's new information to me :) | 05:07 |
| lucent | FYI the reboot is complete, connected to "2.5"G indicator and internet is up on T-Mobile internet | 05:07 |
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| lucent | DocScrutinizer: do you mean "Dual" Network mode ? | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | strange. Well - as said above - next step: OOTB plain image | 05:08 |
| lucent | or "Network selection" automatic | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, dual | 05:08 |
| Kevin_B | nite guys | 05:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | netwok selection forcing it to your carrier might help as well | 05:09 |
| Kevin_B | seems like gcc maemo compiler provided in nokia Qt sdk can't handle void* pointer arithmetic | 05:09 |
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| Kevin_B | is there a way to get this? | 05:10 |
| luke-jr | Kevin_B: makes sense, SINCE THAT'S ILLEGAL | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | there might be a 'rogue' alternative carrier that keeps the phone trying to register, or actually just it's roaming and the network has no data at all | 05:11 |
| Kevin_B | mingw-gcc provide it | 05:11 |
| lucent | DocScrutinizer: but phone calls still work? | 05:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if you're roaming on a alien network and this network doesn't allow data, that would show exactly this effect then | 05:12 |
| lucent | understand, now :) | 05:12 |
| lucent | that does happen when I travel every day, I roam and one of the networks doesn't allow data | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could use netmon to check details of carrier, band, BTS ID etc, so maybe you find some patterns | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 05:13 |
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| lucent | DocScrutinizer: any immediate way to log all that information timestamped and such? | 05:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm, maybe via syslog and dbus-monitor. But I'm not really sure how netmon acquires that info | 05:24 |
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| zakkkm | luke-jr, still around ? How you been? | 05:34 |
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| luke-jr | zakkkm: busy | 05:36 |
| zakkkm | luke-jr, remember me? | 05:36 |
| zakkkm | just got me one of those N900s | 05:36 |
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| pupnik | pretty cool eh zakkkm | 05:41 |
| luke-jr | zakkkm: oh well | 05:44 |
| zakkkm | yeah | 05:44 |
| zakkkm | pupnik, still trying it out though, have no time :) | 05:44 |
| zakkkm | not liking the battery that much though | 05:45 |
| zakkkm | questioning whether i should pay $9.99 and get joikuspot | 05:46 |
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| pupnik | to tether something to n900 zakkkm | 05:47 |
| zakkkm | yeah | 05:47 |
| pupnik | there's a free app too | 05:47 |
| zakkkm | i tether my n900 to my desktop.. got unlimited data ( Toronto, Canada ) .. but you know other devices, maybe friends and such | 05:47 |
| zakkkm | i was thinking of some bash script i could just run, and package it myself | 05:48 |
| pupnik | then there's also usb-tethering with the pc-suite | 05:48 |
| zakkkm | make it have like a on and off | 05:48 |
| zakkkm | yeah im doing usb tethering now | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | zakkkm: Mobile Hotspot is in extras | 05:48 |
| zakkkm | didnt see that? | 05:49 |
| zakkkm | thought i went through them all | 05:49 |
| pupnik | luke-jr: what's the best battery grapher | 05:49 |
| zakkkm | got the extras-devel too, unsure if i should get extras-testing | 05:49 |
| pupnik | so i can get an idea of my usage habits | 05:49 |
| zakkkm | does it do WPA2? | 05:49 |
| pupnik | i see only WEP | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | pupnik: Eye | 05:50 |
| pupnik | ty | 05:50 |
| zakkkm | you guys use normal microb browser? | 05:51 |
| luke-jr | when I browse | 05:52 |
| pupnik | opera here | 05:52 |
| zakkkm | http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1579/maemodeb.jpg know what icon set that is? | 05:53 |
| zakkkm | so is meego/nitdroid worth trying, or should stick to maemo ? | 05:54 |
| pupnik | wow that looks neat | 05:54 |
| pupnik | i think if it's fun to try them then do, but neither are more useful | 05:54 |
| luke-jr | zakkkm: none of the above | 05:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: I heard bat eye is eating bat :-P | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: I suggest bq27200.sh script and redirect taht to a file if you want devent logs | 06:08 |
| zakkkm | is it sad to say i think maemo 3 looks better than 5? | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | zakkkm: well, for quite a number of aspects I think m4 is better than m4 | 06:09 |
| zakkkm | m4 is better than m4? | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g complete functionality via hw keys - while on m5 you can't even open a menu without touchscreen | 06:10 |
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| zakkkm | when the n900 was first shown, looked so cool and loved it mostly cause of the speed, which seemed muchh faster than n800, and also 3d | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh m4 > m5 | 06:10 |
| zakkkm | but now having the n900, i miss maemo 3 with plankton :P | 06:10 |
| pupnik | m5 did away with oldschool 'start menu' style application launcher | 06:11 |
| zakkkm | if they didnt all WSOD ( like my old 770) i would attempt to acquire one | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I found some ways to leverage this flaw in m5 via modified hildon desktop, to some extent | 06:11 |
| zakkkm | you guys overclock? or mess with system services? i find maemo 5 alot slower than i thought it would be | 06:11 |
| zakkkm | havent done CSSU yet, does that help? | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, OC is for fools | 06:11 |
| pupnik | what exactly seems slow zakkkm | 06:12 |
| zakkkm | window animations | 06:12 |
| zakkkm | switching apps mostly | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, then tune the transitions :-P | 06:12 |
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| zakkkm | i enabled the "use custom window animations(fast) from theme thing , which helped | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | "there's an app for that" ;-P caled transition tweaker os sth like that | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | "there's an app for that" ;-P called transition tweaker or sth like that | 06:15 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: you seem to be right - idle current was 25mA without battery eye, 55mA with it | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 06:16 |
| zakkkm | how you testing mA amount? | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | bq27200.sh | 06:16 |
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| zakkkm | 25mA idle?! | 06:16 |
| zakkkm | thats high | 06:16 |
| pupnik | ./bq27220.sh | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | not for a script running every 5 seconds | 06:16 |
| pupnik | compared to what zakkkm | 06:16 |
| zakkkm | average phones | 06:16 |
| zakkkm | or smartphones rather | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, do avrg phones shell scripting? | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | and WLAN ssh? | 06:17 |
| zakkkm | ssh is in alot of phones? | 06:17 |
| pupnik | this is going over wlan ssh | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: I knew, as I get exactly same figures | 06:18 |
| zakkkm | gotta pick up on my shell scripting , get my LPI level 2 certification | 06:18 |
| pupnik | thanks for confirm... let me know when you test those speakers pls DocScrutinizer | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: increase cycle time to 60s to see current drop massively | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never ordered those speakers, I wish I had, though they won't get tested as they are suppoesed to be original spare | 06:19 |
| pupnik | oh i was holding-off on my order | 06:20 |
| pupnik | will order tonight | 06:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm still waiting for my bare PCB to arrive | 06:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 06:20 |
| pupnik | looks like they wait to put a large set of orders on a boat to europe or smth | 06:21 |
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| pupnik | much-better mame for maemo | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Notes: order sent out on 14th Feb 2011 by normal airmail,it always takes 3-7 weeks to delivered | 06:23 |
| pupnik | :/ | 06:24 |
| pupnik | airmail = hot-air balloon? | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait til it drifts by somewhere near my, driven by the winds | 06:25 |
| pupnik | :) hmm now i'm getting more readings like 16-22mA | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | I seem to recall JApan shiped bombs to the western countries this way, in WW2 | 06:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PSM on? | 06:27 |
| pupnik | PSM is what? | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | WLAN PSM | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | power saving | 06:28 |
| pupnik | i assume so? | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd rather check :-) | 06:29 |
| pupnik | yes, on (maximum) | 06:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | check your script | 06:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/108964/ RS=22 ! | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | has been 30 at times | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | the peaks at 39, 44mA are due to GSM | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | 05:32 4175 100 100 -13 1380 1380 1380 65535 6150 26 0 | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | 05:33 4175 100 100 -10 1380 1380 1380 65535 7734 26 0 | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | 05:33 4175 100 100 -12 1380 1380 1380 65535 6459 26 0 | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | 05:34 4172 100 100 -15 1379 1379 1379 65535 5428 25 0 | 06:34 |
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| pupnik | heh i am losing ssh to device on inactivity | 06:35 |
| pupnik | script is from early last year | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, I found about bq27200 last summer iirc | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | so script hardly can be older than that | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, no wait | 06:37 |
| pupnik | Apr 4 2010 bq27220.sh | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it's not been me who found the bq27200, I think I found bq24150 | 06:37 |
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| pupnik | 05:36 3779 0 0 -31 0 0 0 65535 0 297 0 | 06:38 |
| pupnik | 05:36 3789 0 0 -17 0 0 0 65535 0 297 0 | 06:38 |
| pupnik | 05:37 3789 0 0 -17 0 0 0 65535 0 297 0 | 06:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems there's sth eating a 5 some mA | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be WLAN | 06:39 |
| pupnik | battery eye is running | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could run the script on local xterm, and disconnect | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, for a prog accused to be a bat hog that'S not that bad | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | GSM? | 06:41 |
| pupnik | off | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | that'S another 4mA | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you're like 10mA high | 06:42 |
| pupnik | ok ill stop battery eye and run bq from terminal | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and disconnect WLAN | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | should get you down to <10 | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually way less than 10 | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | only when screen blanked ;-D | 06:43 |
| pupnik | ok thanks. will let this run | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | notifier LED breathing light is humble | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess a 0.5 avrg | 06:44 |
| pupnik | that's not running | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | you disabled breathing light? | 06:45 |
| pupnik | i think yes... it's certainly not doing anything | 06:45 |
| zakkkm | is CSSU any faster, or just bug fixes? | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | bugfixes | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | most of us are just happy with performance of OMAP3430 at 600MHz max ;-D | 06:46 |
| zakkkm | ohh maybe you know, Mail exchange keeps saying like cannot connect | 06:46 |
| zakkkm | first synchronization is fine.. then just randomly stops working | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 06:46 |
| zakkkm | would use normal "email" i just want contact/calendar sync though too | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think I've seen that on PR1.0 | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | never used any sync though | 06:47 |
| zakkkm | synchronisation failed. error in communication with exchange server | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 06:47 |
| zakkkm | version 20.2010.36-2 i assume its PR1.3? | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: for reference: http://paste.debian.net/108965/ idle, GSM, blank screen, via WLAN PSM max WPA ssh | 06:51 |
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| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: with wlan off, screen off, no gsm i get -14 - -15 mA over the last minutes | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, that's too much | 06:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for a 30s period of bq27200.sh | 06:55 |
| pupnik | yes oh. i see battery eye continues running after closed gui | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 06:55 |
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| pupnik | something is starting python -OO /opt/maemo/usr/lib/advanced-power-monitor/apmdaemon.py start | 06:56 |
| pupnik | ahh "advanced power monitor" package | 06:58 |
| Macer | pupnik: sounds like it uses more power monitoring it | 07:00 |
| pupnik | yeah i unstalled everything battery-monitorish and rebooting now - will see if i can get it lower | 07:00 |
| Macer | heh | 07:01 |
| Macer | doesn't battery eye also use the monitoring daemon? | 07:01 |
| Macer | i wonder how many times it monitors... probably isn't too bad if it does it once every 20 mins or so | 07:02 |
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| pupnik | Macer: maybe all it does is log that data when not onscreen | 07:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I seem to recall rumour about it refreshing graphics even when in background and screen locked :-P | 07:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I really love this video that guy published there. Don't even understand Italian and still it's absolutely clear what'S going on :-D | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ&NR=1 | 07:10 |
| pupnik | rebooted, offline mode, 14-15 mA | 07:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | powertop, see what processes got lots of wakeups | 07:12 |
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| pupnik | "Tax protester William Monroe once wrote: 'I have to buy less food, less tobacco, less recreation; I would LIKE to buy LESS GOVERNMENT.'" hahah | 07:16 |
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| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q chocolaate-maan!*@* | 07:18 | |
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| xDaReaperx | Hello | 07:39 |
| xDaReaperx | i went through this http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME and i wanted to know a possible way to actually find out if my battery was original | 07:40 |
| xDaReaperx | any proper command to see the max capacity ? | 07:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | xDaReaperx: completely charge, discharge, charge, discharge, then run bq27200.sh | 07:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | *completely* | 07:45 |
| pupnik | ok it was my kernel DocScrutinizer - the nokia kernel has been averaging -2 -3 mA | 07:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | without removing battery in between | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: o.O | 07:46 |
| pupnik | just sitting there, doing nothing | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: what's wrong with your kernel then? | 07:46 |
| pupnik | dunno some old experimental kernel | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | odd | 07:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway nice to learn your hw is ok | 07:47 |
| pupnik | yes yes1 thanks for the help | 07:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 07:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for chilling | 07:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 07:48 |
| xDaReaperx | okay | 07:49 |
| xDaReaperx | thank you | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and if chocolaate maan visits, say "hi bot". Don't expect an answer though ;-P | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | xDaReaperx: actually you ma want to run bq27200.sh 60 >mybatlog.txt all the time, while charging discharging completely, to see where cell gets low/full | 07:51 |
| xDaReaperx | actually batterygraph shows 1207 full charge | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | bq27200 chip isn't guaranteed to learn bat capacity in just 2 learning cycles | 07:51 |
| xDaReaperx | 1250 is the max right ? | 07:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, battery graph I'm not trusting | 07:52 |
| xDaReaperx | hmm okay | 07:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | 13080 here | 07:52 |
| xDaReaperx | woah | 07:52 |
| xDaReaperx | lol | 07:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1380 actually | 07:52 |
| xDaReaperx | it's the original ? | 07:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 07:52 |
| xDaReaperx | cause as far as i've read i've seen max was 1250 or something around 1300 | 07:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's design capacity. good cells may go igher | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | higher | 07:53 |
| xDaReaperx | and when ever i do a full charge after unplugging it shows only 95 or 96 % charged | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | never mind, that's bme lies | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | all just lies :-P | 07:53 |
| xDaReaperx | oh okay | 07:53 |
| xDaReaperx | lol | 07:53 |
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| xDaReaperx | is this Japod battery good ? | 07:55 |
| xDaReaperx | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/japod-bl-5j-replacement-3-7v-1350mah-li-ion-battery-for-nokia-5800-32398 | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | xDaReaperx: http://paste.debian.net/108965/ | 07:56 |
| xDaReaperx | nice which command did you use ? | 07:56 |
| xDaReaperx | this one it self right ? bq27200.sh 60 >mybatlog.txt | 07:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 30 but yes | 07:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you might want to use 300 | 07:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka 5 min | 07:58 |
| xDaReaperx | ok | 07:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | xDaReaperx: make sure you got RS=22 in that script | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | not RS=30 | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | and don't erase your script when restarting, watch out to use >> instead of > | 08:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/script/log/ | 08:04 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: and don't erase your log when restarting, watch out to use >> instead of > | 08:04 |
| RobbieThe1st | Speaking of which, this is (at east essentially) the same thing as the original charger, isn't it? http://www.dealextreme.com/p/genuine-nokia-mini-ac-10u-us-type-ac-charger-100-240v-32331 | 08:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | when bat-low alarm yells, you might need to `stop bme` | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: according to the URL yes | 08:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | afk, bbl | 08:07 |
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| pupnik | why is RS=22 better than RS=30? | 08:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because of that's the correct value for the sensing resistor | 08:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe 20, but obviously not 30 | 08:37 |
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| * jonwil wishes he could find someone who knows lots about how to program telepathy and related APIs | 09:21 | |
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| RST38h | NASA Says Nuclear Warfare Could Reverse Global Warming! | 09:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cool, but please not in my garden | 09:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | DocScrutinizer says a Colt .45 can avoid dying from cancer | 10:01 |
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| * jonwil wonders if people here actually care about making maemo better or if they have all given up and moved to other platforms | 10:11 | |
| * RST38h cackles at that | 10:11 | |
| jonwil | My guess is that people do care about making maemo better but they just dont care about trying to replace, clone, reverse engineer or figure out the closed source bits because its too much work :P | 10:13 |
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| Jaffa | Morning all | 10:14 |
| jonwil | Morning jaffa | 10:15 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders how to fill global warming into cans, so today could get any better by opening a few | 10:16 | |
| jonwil | who is qgil? | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | quim gil | 10:16 |
| jonwil | and he is? | 10:16 |
| jonwil | Someone at Nokia I assume | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 10:16 |
| jonwil | but what position? | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia FOSS evangelist | 10:16 |
| villager | jonwil: I'd reimplement stuff like the calendar, just that I don't have time | 10:16 |
| villager | jonwil: so it's not that I don't care... | 10:17 |
| jonwil | Find me a telepathy/missioncontrol guy and I could have a large chunk of the non-ui information required to write an alternative dialer app figured out within a week :P | 10:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil/ | 10:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.linkedin.com/in/quimgil | 10:20 |
| jonwil | The #1 and #2 problems with a dialer clone or replacement is 1.figuring out all the things the current dialer does and 2.finding a set of tests that is guaranteed to test every feature | 10:21 |
| jonwil | I suspect the dialer does a lot of things that most people would never think of | 10:22 |
| RST38h | You do noy necessarily have toduplicate every internal thing it does | 10:23 |
| RST38h | Doc: So,it is no longer Meego and back to Maemo? | 10:24 |
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| RST38h | Ah wait he simply has not updated his linkedin profile in years | 10:25 |
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| jonwil | You dont have to duplicate everything but you have to figure out all the features it exposes to the user | 10:26 |
| jonwil | For example the dialer does special things with certain special phone numbers (USSD or whatever it is) | 10:27 |
| RST38h | jonwil: this has nothing to doto the dialerit is part of the gsmstandard | 10:28 |
| RST38h | And I do suspect that most things dialer does end up in DBus calls | 10:28 |
| juk | i was crying today after read late news, and pictures of crying meegoids... :'( | 10:28 |
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| jonwil | Most of what the dialer does results in dbus calls or telepathy calls | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: well, some things are a bit special about *# codes. For sure the reaction to the reply is not like with a normal call | 10:30 |
| jonwil | the non-ui stuff | 10:30 |
| jonwil | there are also a bunch of addressbook calls | 10:30 |
| jonwil | and some libhal calls | 10:30 |
| juk | ok, i'll go, i cant anymore :'(... here it is www.linuxjournal.com/content/oh-nokia-we-loved-you-so | 10:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | now it's getting funny | 10:31 |
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| RST38h | http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-165 | 10:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Heck, we even tolerated the resistive screen on the N900 ... KTHNXBYE | 10:32 |
| jonwil | but yeah most of the important stuff the dialer does likely goes through dbus and through telepathy/missioncontrol | 10:33 |
| jonwil | the HAL stuff seems to be audio related | 10:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: mhm | 10:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's more to dialer than just sending ATD+180055512345 | 10:34 |
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| jonwil | yep, thats why its so hard to clone | 10:35 |
| jonwil | at least clone in a feature-complete way | 10:35 |
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| jonwil | its not rocket science, all it would need is someone with telepathy skills, an interest in improving maemo and enough time to work on it :P | 10:47 |
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| RST38h | jonwil <-- apparently has not estimated the complexity of the whole task | 10:52 |
| jonwil | :P | 10:53 |
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| RST38h | it is not only the dialer, you know... | 10:54 |
| Kaadlajk | I took a look at the call-ui source code, might take a while to clone it :P | 10:54 |
| jonwil | Cloning it might take some time but figuring out all the external interfaces wouldn't take anywhere near as much time | 10:55 |
| jonwil | i.e. everything non-ui related that its doing | 10:55 |
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| jonwil | if you know the important things its doing, you can clone things bit by bit :) | 11:00 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! Does anybody know the tmo and wmo page discussing how to mount the external microsd card automatically sl startup, if it is fully formatted as ext2? | 11:10 |
| jacekowski | complicated | 11:11 |
| jacekowski | most of scripts have hardcoded vfat | 11:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I cheat | 11:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I use a queen beacon script to do startuppy things | 11:14 |
| SpeedEvil | That's set to run once. | 11:14 |
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| ruskie | I cheat... I modify all the stuff to actually support ext ;) | 11:16 |
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| ebzzry | Hmm. | 11:18 |
| ebzzry | I'll try the one described here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_on_microSD_card | 11:18 |
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| jacekowski | why do you want ext2 | 11:21 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35308108 | 11:22 |
| ruskie | because not everyone runs vfat on their sd cards... | 11:22 |
| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 11:22 | |
| ebzzry | jacekowski: Because of file size limits | 11:23 |
| ebzzry | It's OK. I have EXT2FSD installed on Windows system that I use. | 11:23 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35308696 | 11:25 |
| * timeless_w7ip rotfl | 11:25 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | avs: did you see http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Nokia-and-open-source-a-trial-by-fire-1194928.html ? | 11:26 |
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| RST38h | Slashdotter attempts at humor only cause pity | 11:32 |
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| Termana | good morning | 11:46 |
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| avs | timeless_w7ip, yes | 11:53 |
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| * timeless_w7ip sighs | 11:59 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | is there a magic table somewhere that maps ubuntu releases to debian releases? | 12:00 |
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| dm8tbr | I don't think such a thing would be feasible | 12:03 |
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| Corsac | timeless_w7ip: what would you like precisely? | 12:05 |
| Corsac | packages versions in various releases? | 12:05 |
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| timeless_w7ip | a way to use a certain ppa from debian w/ the lowest chance of failure | 12:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | and don't tell me "debian and ubuntu aren't compatible" | 12:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | i don't give a F**** | 12:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | i can also not use apt for this, and i'd be happy | 12:08 |
| Corsac | well, they are at matching releases, which is your point :) | 12:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | i believe that squeeze and lucid are the pair i care about | 12:09 |
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| timeless_w7ip | http://www.chengin.com/?p=66 is awesome btw, the webapp converted -- into a single character | 12:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | to ensure that all of the commands will fail | 12:10 |
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| Corsac | timeless_w7ip: on the debian PTS you have the various debian version and (I guess) the version in current ubuntu release | 12:17 |
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| Corsac | http://packages.qa.debian.org/libh/libhildon.html for example | 12:17 |
| dm8tbr | timeless_w7ip: I'd guess that squeeze would be on par with last year october's ubuntu. just a guess though | 12:17 |
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| Corsac | timeless_w7ip: you can have the same kind of view for all packages from a maintainer, but not for *all* packages | 12:18 |
| Corsac | I remember that something like that exists but I can't find it right now | 12:18 |
| pupnik | William Clay. Democrat • 1st District, Missouri • 6th Term • Sworn In 2001 "There's no way the Federal Reserve could possibly have an effect on the value of the dollar" | 12:18 |
| pupnik | oops | 12:18 |
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| kerio | timeless_w7ip: just install the latest one | 12:22 |
| kerio | if it complains about libraries, install the one before that | 12:22 |
| kerio | it shouldn't make that big of a difference for normal programs | 12:22 |
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| kerio | also w7 ¬_¬ | 12:26 |
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| timeless_w7ip | kerio: err | 12:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | the point is that the one available from the default debian release is too old | 12:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | there's a ppa which offers the version i want, but i'm supposed to pick an ubuntu distro so it can try to be nice to me about dependencies | 12:43 |
| kerio | timeless_w7ip: yeah | 12:43 |
| * timeless_w7ip ponders trying to send a patch for the linux kernel | 12:43 | |
| kerio | so install the latest one, and if it complains about dependencies, install the previous one | 12:43 |
| timeless_w7ip | well, not really the kernel, technically linux/README :) | 12:43 |
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| timeless_w7ip | is there an apt-get install --not-really-just-tell-me-if-you-would-like-me package flag? :) | 12:44 |
| ruskie | dpkg iirc can force stuff avoiding deps and errors | 12:44 |
| timeless_w7ip | ruskie: totally not the goal here | 12:45 |
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| timeless_w7ip | the goal is to provide a way for an admin to install a version of a package i'd like if the admin insists on using apt to manage the package | 12:45 |
| timeless_w7ip | with the understanding that w/o providing a non debian repo, the admin would be unable to install a version of the package that i'd like | 12:45 |
| dschoepe | My (new) n900 drains about 20% battery in 8h without usage (3G, wifi and GPS disabled, all X applications closed, screen locked). Is that normal? | 12:48 |
| ruskie | check what the cpu is doing... | 12:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | dschoepe: so you're getting 5 days standby? | 12:48 |
| pupnik | 8 hours = 1 day? | 12:48 |
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| timeless_w7ip | 1 business day :) | 12:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | ok, <2days | 12:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | dschoepe: that's low | 12:49 |
| pupnik | dschoepe: there can be many causes of that | 12:49 |
| dschoepe | ruskie: BatteryGraph shows some spikes about each hour | 12:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | dschoepe: you might have media which is being 'indexed' (or causing the indexer to throw fits) | 12:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | do you have presence disabled? | 12:50 |
| ruskie | dschoepe, cpu use.. not battery monitor... | 12:50 |
| dschoepe | ruskie: oh, I meant cpu usage, batterygraph displays that | 12:50 |
| pupnik | i bet you installed a bunch of stuff that uses cpu | 12:50 |
| dschoepe | timeless_w7ip: I didn't enable it myself, is it on by default? | 12:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | dschoepe: shrug, you haven't added any accounts? | 12:51 |
| dschoepe | no | 12:51 |
| timeless_w7ip | did you buy it new or used? | 12:52 |
| dschoepe | new | 12:52 |
| ruskie | I'd check top to see if there is some process using a lot of cpu time... | 12:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | and you haven't installed anything? | 12:52 |
| dschoepe | I have installed various daemons like shortcutd and headphoned, but they shouldn't use any noticeable amount of CPU, right? | 12:52 |
| timeless_w7ip | have you added widgets to your desktop? | 12:52 |
| dschoepe | yeah, but just a calendar, feedingit(with auto-update disabled) and that location-thingie | 12:53 |
| timeless_w7ip | try ditching calendar | 12:53 |
| timeless_w7ip | (and ditch location) | 12:53 |
| timeless_w7ip | heck, while you're investigating, ditch them all! | 12:53 |
| * timeless_w7ip ponders | 12:54 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | "i'm using this calendar thing which shows me future events. it seems every hour some power is burned. that couldn't possibly relate, could it?" | 12:54 |
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| dschoepe | that would explain the spike in CPU usage, that batterygraph showed every hour | 12:55 |
| timeless_w7ip | if you were wrinting "my first calendar daily view", how would you write it? :) | 12:55 |
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| dschoepe | ruskie: htop doesn't show anything suspicious, except hildon-desktop and X using about 10% but not continuously | 12:56 |
| timeless_w7ip | out of curiosity, is there anything in your calendar? :) | 12:56 |
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| timeless_w7ip | fwiw, desktop widgets are part of hildon-desktop | 12:56 |
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| dschoepe | yes, but only about 5 appointments, one of which is shown | 12:56 |
| timeless_w7ip | sure, so "my first calendar" might want to decide if it should hide or change the display of that one appointment :) | 12:57 |
| timeless_w7ip | anyway, try w/o those widgets and see how things go | 12:58 |
| dschoepe | yeah, will do | 12:58 |
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| timeless_w7ip | heck, it sounds like you can monitor overnight to find out if that does it | 12:58 |
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| dschoepe | speaking of which, could the logging that batterygraph does, cause it? | 12:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | potentially | 12:59 |
| timeless_w7ip | anything that results in wakeups and i/o isn't free | 12:59 |
| * timeless_w7ip doesn't use such tools and doesn't know what their expected cost is | 13:00 | |
| dschoepe | okay, removed that too, lets see if that helps | 13:00 |
| dschoepe | thanks for your help | 13:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | do pop back to indicate what happened | 13:01 |
| pupnik | scoobertron: are you using the nokia kernel? i just found that the 'power kernel' sucked power | 13:02 |
| pupnik | (not oc'd) | 13:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | pupnik: *shocking* :) | 13:03 |
| pupnik | :D | 13:03 |
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| pupnik | can i insert microsd while power is on? | 13:12 |
| dschoepe | pupnik: yes | 13:12 |
| dschoepe | (at least I could without any problems) | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Because the power to the microSD is turned off when the back cover is opened. | 13:13 |
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| BluesLee | MohammadAG: ping | 13:13 |
| pupnik | worked fine here SpeedEvil | 13:15 |
| BluesLee | MohammadAG: concerning the cssu, is the phone application also closed source? otherwise adding filtering on incoming/outgoing etc calls like in extended call log makes sense | 13:15 |
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| jonwil | the phone dialer app (rtcom-call-ui) is closed source unfortunatly | 13:15 |
| jonwil | Call filtering features is something I would really love to be able to do | 13:16 |
| jonwil | but its not possible unfortunatly due to the fact that the dialer app is closed source | 13:16 |
| BluesLee | jonwil: thanx for the info | 13:16 |
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| jonwil | I am working on reverse enginering the phone dialer (more specifically all those non-ui bits that would be required to produce a replacement) but I lack the telepathy knowledge to advance it further :( | 13:17 |
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| BluesLee | i have a kind of bug: i use OptimizeN900 on a daily basis with alarmed but in same cases i am not able to use the ui anymore as a background screen "select font" comes to the foreground and i cant get rid of it, just rebooting helps | 13:17 |
| BluesLee | jonwil: did you have a look on the dialer apps from the openmoko project, shr etc... | 13:18 |
| jonwil | The issue is not "write a phone dialer" | 13:18 |
| jonwil | the issue is "figure out all the special stuff the stock dialer does" | 13:19 |
| jonwil | it does all sorts of things like USSD calls | 13:19 |
| jonwil | and stuff connected to emergency numbers | 13:19 |
| pupnik | thank you Thomas Tanner for 'locate' utility! | 13:19 |
| BluesLee | jonwil: okay ... i guess the shr guys have the same problem with their port | 13:19 |
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| ZogG | hey | 13:20 |
| * ZogG hugs pupnik | 13:20 | |
| pupnik | wut | 13:20 |
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| jonwil | the only way to get that information (assuming Nokia wont release the dialer source code) is to reverse engineer the dialer (something which no-one except me seems to be particularly interested in :P | 13:20 |
| BluesLee | jonwil: what about the meego dialer, does it also use telepathy? | 13:20 |
| jonwil | its not just telepathy | 13:20 |
| jonwil | its all the other things the dialer talks to | 13:20 |
| BluesLee | okay | 13:21 |
| * pupnik needs locate like oxygen | 13:21 | |
| pupnik | i bet we could have the media framework use the locate system instead | 13:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | jonwil: I'm interested too. | 13:21 |
| jonwil | btw the need for this info only matters if you are using the maemo telephony stack | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: But am currently spending time taking apart my bathroom. | 13:22 |
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| jonwil | Finding people that actually know anything much about telepathy seems difficult | 13:22 |
| BluesLee | jonwil: i had also big issues as i tried out a dual sim card as there is no special menu for it | 13:22 |
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| pupnik | hey ZogG i don't see locate command | 13:23 |
| pupnik | and no updatedb either | 13:23 |
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| BluesLee | jonwil: switching between the two sims didnt worked on the n900, no problem on old nokias | 13:24 |
| jonwil | That feature may require changes in the cellular modem firmware | 13:25 |
| jonwil | Depends how it works | 13:25 |
| ZogG | pupnik me either | 13:25 |
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| BluesLee | jonwil: the only cool thing was that the adapter was a non cut version which fits perfectly in the n900 | 13:26 |
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| ZogG | pupnik, the funny thing, i do have it on desktop but don't rememeber what package does have it so don't have it on laptop =) | 13:28 |
| ZogG | http://agilialinux.com/main/about.html -- nice new linux =) | 13:29 |
| pupnik | ZogG: - mlocate or slocate are the common packages | 13:30 |
| jonwil | I recon if we knew the special stuff the dialer does (telepathy, dbus, HAL etc) writing a new dialer wouldn't be that difficult\ | 13:31 |
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| ZogG | pupnik i mean "locate" | 13:33 |
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| pupnik | hmm reinstalling javisp's new dosbox gives no usable config file or keyboard layout | 13:36 |
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| Veggen | hmm. tåke idag. Ikke noe prøve-teleskop-vær, iallefall... | 13:52 |
| ZogG | say wut | 13:52 |
| Veggen | #wrong channel. | 13:52 |
| alterego | Hah | 13:53 |
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| timeless_w7ip | pupnik: speedevil was explaining a technical detail | 14:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | you aren't actually inserting the uSD card to a live bus. the power to that slot is off when the cover is removed. this prevents harm to things. | 14:22 |
| pupnik | oh i see | 14:22 |
| timeless_w7ip | pupnik: i'm not certain that tracker always honors file extensions. it's possible it ignores them... | 14:24 |
| ZogG | pupnik, it's not that hard for me to make xmms2 functionality with API as to make gui =) | 14:24 |
| pupnik | timeless_w7ip: the 'locate' thing is just a convenience for linux folks | 14:24 |
| pupnik | 'where'd that file go' is much nicer with locate | 14:25 |
| timeless_w7ip | jonwil: typically dualsim is managed by using SIMTK or whatever that monstrocity is called | 14:25 |
| ZogG | true | 14:25 |
| ZogG | pupnik, but true linux guys use find actually | 14:25 |
| timeless_w7ip | STK? | 14:25 |
| pupnik | ZogG: i don't think so - it's slow | 14:26 |
| ZogG | you are slow =) | 14:26 |
| timeless_w7ip | not slow, just not paying attn | 14:26 |
| ZogG | but it's like comparing bike and car | 14:26 |
| timeless_w7ip | find is a disaster on any file system w/ lots of data | 14:26 |
| timeless_w7ip | it does not scale well | 14:26 |
| timeless_w7ip | there's a reason everyone since BeOS has been trying to move toward a database for their file system | 14:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | ms tried w/ Cairo | 14:27 |
| pupnik | timeless_w7ip: updatedb can run when i'm sleeping. that's a good system even for a portable | 14:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_%28operating_system%29 | 14:27 |
| timeless_w7ip | pupnik: users tend to be rather annoying | 14:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | there was a cool /. comment about people and military use wrt. iraq/afghanistan/libya | 14:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2011386&cid=35308108 | 14:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | > The simple fact is that the real world is a hellishly difficult place and western governments are dealing with an electorate incapable of keeping a coherent train of thought in a single sentence. | 14:30 |
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| timeless_w7ip | a translation for people only familiar w/ computers | 14:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | users demand "excellent battery life" and "immediate responsiveness" and "instant access" and | 14:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | "perfect search" and | 14:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | ... | 14:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | users want everything! | 14:31 |
| pupnik | and engineers decide what makes users happiest based on their uninformed feedback | 14:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | case in point. we were using a PSn (dunno if it was 2 or 3, i'm a user, i don't care) | 14:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | while we watched a movie, we arranged for the media server we were using to download an additional movie | 14:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | we wanted to be able to immediately select the new movie from the list as soon as we finished watching the current movie | 14:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | we were acting like typical users | 14:32 |
| timeless_w7ip | having to reboot or wait for the system to do a daily media update would *not* have made us happy | 14:32 |
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| timeless_w7ip | can you imagine telling your sister "no, you can't watch the movie you just bought today, wait until tomorrow"? | 14:33 |
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| timeless_w7ip | surely some of you have siblings? | 14:33 |
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| * kerio has two much older ones | 14:33 | |
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| * RST38h cannot imagine that: he isnot buying any movies | 14:38 | |
| jonwil | hmmm, the dialer app supports video calls (skype video calls I assume, possibly SIP also) | 14:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | rst: substitute steal for buy if you must | 14:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | jonwil: and google talk | 14:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | among others | 14:39 |
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| RST38h | No, you are not getting it: I am not even stealing any movies | 14:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | you don't watch movies? i get it | 14:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | you aren't my target audience | 14:40 |
| RST38h | See? Now you get it. | 14:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | nor were you the official target of this feature | 14:41 |
| RST38h | Also, the concept of "stealing" originally included the notion of the victim losing the stolen good. | 14:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | since you're clearly a hacker, just disable the stupid feature and stop whining | 14:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh fuck off | 14:41 |
| RST38h | And losing "potential revenue" probably wouldn't count. | 14:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | language is used to describe concepts | 14:42 |
| RST38h | timeless <-- fallomorphs easily | 14:42 |
| timeless_w7ip | you clearly understood the concept based on your response | 14:42 |
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| timeless_w7ip | which means the language was sufficient and effective | 14:42 |
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| zhasha | is this the place to get some help with Hildon? | 14:45 |
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| timeless_w7ip | zhasha: you can ask here, there's probably also a -dev somewhere | 14:47 |
| timeless_w7ip | but some people are moving to Qt, so the available set of devs is dwindling | 14:47 |
| zhasha | there's a #maemo-dev but that kinda says development of Maemo, not for Maemo | 14:47 |
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| zhasha | in any case, I just want to know how to make what I believe is called a sub-view. as in, I want to have a list to select from, and when you do select something, it moves to the next screen as in the music player, and displays a back button in the upper right hand corner | 14:48 |
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| alterego | Well, he was patient :D | 14:56 |
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| timeless_w7ip | heh | 14:56 |
| alterego | I guess some people just don't like waiting | 14:57 |
| timeless_w7ip | alterego: tell that to rst! :) | 14:57 |
| alterego | It is quiet strange that people think we're all here staring at the window waiting for someone to come in and ask a question ;) | 14:58 |
| alterego | s/quiet/quite/ | 14:58 |
| infobot | alterego meant: It is quite strange that people think we're all here staring at the window waiting for someone to come in and ask a question ;) | 14:58 |
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| * RST38h downloads a 300kB book in ~3 seconds, starts reading happily | 14:58 | |
| kerio | RST38h: that's almost 150kB/s! | 14:58 |
| * alterego is working on his Qml based dialer | 14:58 | |
| * kerio is playing transformice | 14:59 | |
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| RST38h | Well, establishing connection probably eats most of those 3 sec | 14:59 |
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| RST38h | alterego: You too??? jonwil here is working on one | 15:00 |
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| alterego | RST38h: mine is for MeeGo, I don't know what he's doing :D | 15:00 |
| alterego | And no doubt he wont be using QML | 15:00 |
| timeless_w7ip | kerio: what kind of math are you using? | 15:01 |
| trx | does anyone know if there is ANY documentation about symbol dialog (Blue arrow + Ctrl) ? | 15:04 |
| RST38h | alterego: I think he is rewriting the maemo one | 15:04 |
| jonwil | I am not working on a dialer, | 15:04 |
| jonwil | I am simply reverse engineering the maemo dialer | 15:04 |
| alterego | jonwil: :) didn't think you were | 15:04 |
| jonwil | to find out anything special it does | 15:04 |
| RST38h | alterego: Is there hope the stuff you are doing for Meego will be portable for other OSes? | 15:04 |
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| trx | or maybe if its oss, where sould i look? | 15:04 |
| alterego | RST38h: yes, provided it uses ofono ... | 15:04 |
| RST38h | alterego: I.e. no way to plug anything esle? | 15:05 |
| alterego | RST38h: that and the application engine can be adapted. I might port it to maemo for a laugh | 15:05 |
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| alterego | http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/qmldialer/20110227_130312.png | 15:05 |
| alterego | At the moment I've just cloned the current meego reference dialer UX in QML | 15:05 |
| RST38h | OMG HE IS USING ABSOLUTE PATHS | 15:06 |
| * RST38h explodes | 15:06 | |
| alterego | Yes, I've not put in the theme engine support yet :P | 15:06 |
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| alterego | And that UX is subject to radically change. | 15:07 |
| alterego | I'm more prototyping the interface between Qt and the Qml UI code. | 15:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | trx: what about it? | 15:07 |
| kerio | timeless_w7ip: why, am i wrong? | 15:07 |
| timeless_w7ip | and no, it isn't open | 15:07 |
| alterego | So eventually, anyone can hack together a QML UX for the dialer and use my Qt application engine code to power it. | 15:08 |
| alterego | Imagine what themers could do to a device then ;) | 15:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | kerio: why isn't 300/3 = 100? | 15:08 |
| trx | timeless_w7ip i need to know how does it send characters to focused widget | 15:08 |
| kerio | i said it's almost 150 | 15:08 |
| timeless_w7ip | it's almost a million too... | 15:08 |
| kerio | no, it's way less than a million | 15:08 |
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| jonwil | which package provides the symbol dialog? | 15:09 |
| trx | timeless_w7ip do i need to set some special flags or something.. because my custom widget doesnt recieve any keyboard events.. | 15:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | trx: um, xtrace is your friend | 15:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://xtrace.alioth.debian.org/ | 15:09 |
| trx | nice | 15:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | from memory it does take some magic | 15:09 |
| timeless_w7ip | the mozilla port ran into pain when dealing w/ it | 15:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | you could look to see how we handled it | 15:10 |
| trx | doesnt matter, gives me a start | 15:10 |
| jonwil | Specifically want I am reverse engineering is anything the maemo dialer does that isnt UI | 15:10 |
| trx | because there is nothing about it.. | 15:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=maemo&find=qt | 15:10 |
| timeless_w7ip | jonwil: it supports <.> ;-) | 15:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | the ui someone linked to only offered + | 15:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | it also somewhat supports <p> and <q> iirc | 15:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | jonwil: it's closed, so i'm not sure how the package helps | 15:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | it'd be an inputmethod something | 15:12 |
| jonwil | ok | 15:12 |
| timeless_w7ip | and yes, it's more or less stupid | 15:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | such is life | 15:13 |
| jonwil | I doubt the dialer is doing anything special in the UI that would be essential for a custom dialer clone | 15:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | well all of the #<...> stuff is magical | 15:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | e.g. the sequence to get the system version | 15:13 |
| timeless_w7ip | while you're adding features, please let me <mute> before a call is established | 15:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | if i want to mute, and the call isn't ready, your'e a program, and you can remember that i want to mute, and when the call is ready, you can mute | 15:14 |
| timeless_w7ip | and then i, a user, will be happy | 15:14 |
| alterego | jonwil: the dialer is in charge of showing incoming call as well, so it's always running afair | 15:15 |
| jonwil | ok | 15:15 |
| timeless_w7ip | basically the idiots designing the ui were told "we can't mute until X" so the ui people said to the app author "don't let the mute button work until we're told it will work" | 15:15 |
| alterego | And there are special things, like handling ussd codes. | 15:15 |
| alterego | Emergency calls | 15:15 |
| alterego | There is actually a whole raft of things that a good dialer has to do. Maybe look at the current meego dialer reference app to get an idea. | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | you need to deal w/ putting a call on hold | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | and trying to conference a call | 15:16 |
| alterego | As the maemo dialer app will be quite similar in functions. | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | you also to some extent are responsible for dealing w/ audio policy | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | e.g. screwing up the camera when you're on a call | 15:16 |
| alterego | Yeah | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | i'd recommend not screwing up the camera, but that might not be possible | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | ideally i should be able to take a picture while i'm using the phone | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | but again, see ui idiots | 15:16 |
| timeless_w7ip | (and local regulations) | 15:17 |
| timeless_w7ip | the law iirc is in a country to which the n900 did not originally sell | 15:17 |
| jonwil | so write a camera-ui replacement :P | 15:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | but because nokia, being a big corporation, doesn't want to deal w/ inconsistencies or future lawsuits etc. the restriction was global | 15:18 |
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| timeless_w7ip | well, basically you should be aware that the app you're replacing deals w/ the audio-policy stuff | 15:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | the simplest path is to do the same audio policy requests that it did | 15:18 |
| timeless_w7ip | but there are other paths (after you've implemented the simple path) | 15:19 |
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| jonwil | well I am not actually going to be writing code | 15:19 |
| jonwil | just some documentation of what its doing | 15:19 |
| pupnik | funny irony, that 'power kernel' :D | 15:19 |
| timeless_w7ip | jonwil: sure, then this goes to the doc | 15:20 |
| jonwil | and only the bits that look specific to the dialer or special or wierd or funky. For example, I dont see any reason to document what the phone dialer is doing with rtcom-eventlogger | 15:20 |
| jonwil | maybe just which functions its calling | 15:21 |
| timeless_w7ip | well | 15:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | someone needs to know who is responsible for showing incoming calls | 15:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | and showing missed calls in the switcher | 15:23 |
| timeless_w7ip | and whether those missed calls are still visible after the battery is exhausted | 15:24 |
| timeless_w7ip | (please don't assume i know the answer to these questions, i'm lazy) | 15:24 |
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| timeless_w7ip | oh, and the speakerphone button is very important | 15:25 |
| jonwil | speakerphone and other things are dbus calls IIRC | 15:25 |
| timeless_w7ip | as is the ability to turn on/off the video camera while in a video supporting call | 15:25 |
| * timeless_w7ip shrugs | 15:26 | |
| timeless_w7ip | the dialer still has to expose it | 15:26 |
| timeless_w7ip | bonus points for spelling out the names of the functions to save the dialer author further research | 15:27 |
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| jonwil | in the case of the speakerphone, I will document the details of the dbus call it makes :) | 15:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | :) | 15:32 |
| jonwil | how the guy writing the dialer clone exposes the feature is up to them | 15:33 |
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| trx | hm, timeless_w7ip now im lost, how would you suggest i setup xtrace? | 15:39 |
| trx | (considering that there is no package for maemo) | 15:39 |
| timeless_w7ip | trx: run it on another computer | 15:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | you basically want to run an app w/ DISPLAY:3 which is xtrace | 15:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | and have xtrace send its data back to DISPLAY:0 | 15:40 |
| timeless_w7ip | trx: note that maemo generally works from in a scratchbox where DISPLAY=:2 | 15:41 |
| trx | ok, ty | 15:41 |
| timeless_w7ip | so it's just a matter of being fancy with things | 15:41 |
| trx | yeah | 15:42 |
| trx | im kinda new to the whole X stuff | 15:42 |
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| timeless_w7ip | you might end up wanting to have the entire xsession running to the xtrace (probably will actually) | 15:42 |
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| trx | k, i'll give it a try.. | 15:43 |
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| timeless_w7ip | fwiw, i'd suggest you start w/ the simple stuff: | 15:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | 1. get xtrace | 15:46 |
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| timeless_w7ip | 2. run it | 15:46 |
| timeless_w7ip | 3. use it on xeyes | 15:46 |
| Turtle^^ | hey all \o/ | 15:46 |
| Turtle^^ | whats the password for su in scratchbox? | 15:47 |
| * SpeedEvil looks up turtle soup recipies. | 15:47 | |
| Turtle^^ | there is a trutle soup also :o | 15:48 |
| Turtle^^ | ? | 15:48 |
| timeless_w7ip | turtle: err | 15:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | fakeroot | 15:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | ~fakeroot | 15:49 |
| infobot | rumour has it, fakeroot is at http://freshmeat.net/projects/fakeroot/ | 15:49 |
| timeless_w7ip | turtle: scratchbox is not a vm | 15:49 |
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| timeless_w7ip | su would still be the real computer's su, but you really would not want to do that | 15:49 |
| Turtle^^ | hmm | 15:49 |
| Turtle^^ | i am using the downloaded vm | 15:50 |
| Turtle^^ | ubuntu | 15:50 |
| Turtle^^ | want to do an apt-get | 15:50 |
| Turtle^^ | dont have the permissions | 15:50 |
| Turtle^^ | what to do? | 15:50 |
| timeless_w7ip | google fakeroot maemo | 15:50 |
| * Turtle^^ moves slowly to win the race | 15:50 | |
| Turtle^^ | ok | 15:50 |
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| RST38h | The NY Times reports that there are indications that a sea change is taking place in consumer behavior as a result of the great recession: Americans are buying less tech stuff and making it last longer | 16:13 |
| RST38h | OMG back to durable goods? | 16:13 |
| RST38h | What will Chinese do??? | 16:13 |
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| derf | Print more money, of course. | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Are their printing US money or their own? | 16:14 |
| derf | Does it make a difference? | 16:14 |
| APTX | they can ask for their money back from the us | 16:14 |
| derf | I don't think they can. | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Dunno, probably does to Wall Street | 16:15 |
| derf | They already have all our money. | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Patti Hauseman stuck with her five-year-old Apple computer until it started making odd whirring noises and occasionally malfunctioning! | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Ah, the horror! The suffering! | 16:15 |
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| derf | Stuck with a Mac for five years does sound pretty horrifying. | 16:17 |
| psycho_oreos | not if you're a loyal mac fan | 16:18 |
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| derf | Being a loyal Mac fan sounds pretty horrifying, too. | 16:18 |
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| pupnik | RST38h: question - do you mind if i make arrowkeys in Falcons Eye go 'diagonal' by default and 'straight' with CTRL-Arrow? | 16:26 |
| pupnik | so for e.g. 'left' arrow would go 'up-left' | 16:26 |
| pupnik | right now the game can't be navigated with arrow keys - but you can use the roguelike directions | 16:27 |
| pupnik | which are also pretty bad since the n900 keybd is shifted | 16:27 |
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| dschoepe | timeless_w7ip: hmm, removing all widgets and battery monitoring daemons seems to have had no effect. I've noticed however that hildon-desktop continuously causes about 8% cpu load. Is that normal? | 16:40 |
| alterego | dschoepe: do you have many widgets? | 16:41 |
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| dschoepe | alterego: I removed all of them to see whether one of them was causing my unusually short battery life | 16:42 |
| alterego | Ah, m'kay | 16:42 |
| dschoepe | I'll check if rebooting helps | 16:42 |
| lcukn901 | dsh check also the plugins to the top bar, the update flasher thing and other misc | 16:43 |
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| dschoepe | lcukn901: I only have a brightness-applet and the 3g/2g-switcher | 16:44 |
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| Juozapas | hi how to set default email client (maemo 5, n900) to use unicode ? | 16:54 |
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| * timeless_w7ip wonders what modest uses | 17:01 | |
| timeless_w7ip | juozapas: what's it sending instead? | 17:02 |
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| Juozapas | ? symbols | 17:05 |
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| Juozapas | timeless_w7ip: any ideas ? | 17:06 |
| timeless_w7ip | use gmail | 17:06 |
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| lcukn901 | juozapas? really modest does not support unicode? | 17:07 |
| Juozapas | timeless_w7ip: i'm using gmail | 17:07 |
| Juozapas | it was ok before, i think maybe something changed after update | 17:08 |
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| timeless_w7ip | and you're really talking about sending? | 17:10 |
| Juozapas | no, about received mails | 17:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | you're probably missing a font | 17:11 |
| timeless_w7ip | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7402 | 17:11 |
| povbot | Bug 7402: Modest not handling single apostrophe (#146) | 17:11 |
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| MohammadAG | timeless_w7ip, why does microB enable portrait UI even if the desktop isn't rotated | 17:24 |
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| timeless_w7ip | mohammad: eh? | 17:26 |
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| timeless_w7ip | portrait ui in microb is controlled by a user pref in options/settings whatever you call that stuff | 17:26 |
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| MohammadAG | timeless_office, yes, but it fails with orientation lock | 17:27 |
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| timeless_w7ip | "fails"? | 17:27 |
| MohammadAG | timeless_w7ip, basically, it listens to mce instead of hildon-desktop | 17:27 |
| * timeless_w7ip wonders wtf orientation lock is | 17:28 | |
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| timeless_w7ip | if you're talking about an imaginary feature which was introduced long after support was added in microb | 17:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | which i suspect you are | 17:28 |
| MohammadAG | something i implemented | 17:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | then i hope the answer is obvious | 17:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | oh wait | 17:28 |
| MohammadAG | it locks orientation to landscape | 17:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | you're asking why a shipped product didn't predict a future mutation? | 17:28 |
| timeless_w7ip | are you *nuts*? | 17:28 |
| MohammadAG | no, all@stock apps do it properly | 17:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | we just aren't that good at reading tea leaves | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | fucking hildon-input-method | 17:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | sorry | 17:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | HIM supports this? :) | 17:29 |
| timeless_w7ip | (him is a stock app!) | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | him isn't a UI | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | but the N900's failing atm, PVR getting stuck so it makes typos | 17:30 |
| timeless_w7ip | mohammad: we were basically the first app after image viewer + phone to support portrait mode | 17:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | we did it because we needed it | 17:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | we were not given particularly useful or helpful guidance | 17:31 |
| timeless_w7ip | nor were we given useful requirements beyond 'support portrait mode' | 17:31 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 17:32 |
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| Azog | is there some software to update the tiles cache (e. g. of openstreetmap tiles)? | 17:33 |
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| timeless_w7ip | sp3000: ping | 17:35 |
| * timeless_w7ip needs help | 17:35 | |
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| sp3000 | timeless_w7ip: plongg | 17:35 |
| * timeless_w7ip kicks comic chat for being painful | 17:37 | |
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| * timeless_w7ip kicks comic chat | 17:38 | |
| lcukn901 | timeless, recent build of comic chat or dug out from archive? | 17:38 |
| timeless_w7ip | archives :* | 17:39 |
| gouverneur | re | 17:39 |
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| pupnik | Azog: did you find any info for your question yet? | 17:40 |
| Azog | pupnik: no | 17:40 |
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| pupnik | i'll snoop around a bit Azog ... btw enabling wlan increased idle current from 2mA to 16mA | 17:42 |
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| pupnik | i wonder if there's a way to get that wlan power down even more to 'demand-only' communications | 17:42 |
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| MohammadAG | timeless_w7ip, one more question, is it possible to get updates for closed source parts? | 17:43 |
| MohammadAG | for the CSSU | 17:43 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: I think that those bugfixes that are done but haven't made it into the official SSU could be included | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, I was thinking of stuff for microB, contacts etc | 17:57 |
| GAN900 | Somebody needs to add windows to FBReader. | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | I mean, adding a portrait flag to Contacts is piss easy | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | it just needs someone to do it, compile the binary and ship it to us | 17:58 |
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| mintux | my n900 connect to wireless automatically while I don't press anything ? why? | 17:58 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: also, there are bugfixes for MicroB that are documented to be fixed a year ago, but haven't made it into any PR yet | 17:58 |
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| timeless_w7ip | venemo: because management killed the release vehicles | 18:01 |
| Venemo | timeless_w7ip: yes, you told me that already :) | 18:01 |
| Venemo | timeless_w7ip: we agreed on the fact that your management is nuts :P | 18:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | mohammadag: ask your official contacct | 18:01 |
| timeless_w7ip | there's no way in hell that i can give them to you | 18:01 |
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| timeless_w7ip | i'd probably be fired for theft | 18:02 |
| _0x47 | Hi, would you suggest moving to MeeGo with my N900? Is Maemo dead yet? | 18:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | no. no. | 18:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | ~cssu | 18:02 |
| infobot | hmm... cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 18:02 |
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| timeless_w7ip | _0x47: does your n900 still work? | 18:02 |
| Venemo | timeless_w7ip: I think MohammadAG is looking for an official way to do this, and not asking you to steal code | 18:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | is it working any less today than it was 5 months ago? | 18:02 |
| timeless_w7ip | venemo: *shrug*. we have our code integrated the same way everyone else does | 18:03 |
| _0x47 | timeless_w7ip: sure, but it really sucks to have no recent packages and I don't see any progress in getting newer packages (core) | 18:03 |
| timeless_w7ip | which means that whomever his contact is has the same access to it as everything else (except flash) | 18:03 |
| timeless_w7ip | _0x47: see infobot's url | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dschoepe: read http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools regarding 8% HD CPU hog | 18:05 |
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| dschoepe | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 18:07 |
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| _0x47 | timeless_w7ip: i see, but how would CSSU update closed source binaries from nokia (e.g. drivers)? reverse engineering? | 18:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dschoepe: are you using catorize or apmefo? | 18:10 |
| dschoepe | categorize, yes | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc the cpu hog got triggered by bouncing up and down by 0 pixels constantly any window with kinetic scrolling that's actually shorter than screen height | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | particularly applauncher when there's been too less icons to make the window scrollable | 18:12 |
| lcukn901 | hmmm microb browser has lost on one tab the 'reload' option on the menu. all other pages have it. | 18:13 |
| lcukn901 | curious | 18:13 |
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| Venemo | lcukn901: Ctrl+R | 18:13 |
| lcukn901 | thanks, but the missing menu is bit odd | 18:14 |
| _0x47 | timeless_w7ip: anyhow, thanks for pointing me there! | 18:14 |
| lcukn901 | it will probably come back when i reopen tab | 18:14 |
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| lcukn901 | lol venemo, it came back after doing that manual ctrl R refresh, double thanks | 18:15 |
| MohammadAG | <timeless_w7ip> mohammadag: ask your official contacct | 18:17 |
| MohammadAG | who's my official contact? | 18:17 |
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| dashavoo | Hmm... is there a German online who wouldn't mind answering me a question nothing to do with maemo? | 18:30 |
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| dschoepe | dashavoo: sure, go ahead | 18:33 |
| dashavoo | thanks dschoepe, I'll pm you so as not to spam the channel | 18:34 |
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| pupnik | anybody know a mp3 player that does EQ before transforming from frequency to time-domain? | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: that'd be sooooo nice | 18:46 |
| Azog | pupnik: did you find anything for the tiles cache? | 18:46 |
| RST38h | To boost the number of Windows Phone 7 apps, Microsoft has relaxed a strict rule and will let employees moonlight and keep the resulting intellectual property and 70% of the revenue, as long as that second job is writing apps for WP7-based devices. | 18:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer curses this impinching MAFW concept | 18:47 | |
| alterego | Heh | 18:47 |
| alterego | mafw is a good idea imo | 18:47 |
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| alterego | I think most of our services should be based around dbus services. | 18:47 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: i think winamp used to do that :D | 18:47 |
| RST38h | dbus has performance problems | 18:47 |
| pupnik | http://cekirdek.uludag.org.tr/~ismail/ffmpeg-docs/mpegaudiodec_8c-source.html looking at this | 18:47 |
| alterego | Allows for a much more unified and integrated UX | 18:48 |
| alterego | RST38h: sure, but those things can be addressed. | 18:48 |
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| RST38h | you definitely WANT some way of communication between front end and back end, but dbus adds a shitload of overhead | 18:48 |
| RST38h | alterego:people have been banging on dbus for years | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: send audio via dbus? are you nuts? | 18:48 |
| alterego | Yeah | 18:48 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: no, not send audio via dbus :P | 18:49 |
| RST38h | Doc: Hasn't Arts done that? | 18:49 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: what low frequencies would you throw away for n900? I'm guessing anything below 200hz at least | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: NFC, Arts hasn't had >100 cpu-seconds on all my machines added up | 18:49 |
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| pupnik | there's a table of bands, but the allocation of those seems to be dynamic | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: probably 150 | 18:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: *I* sometimes wish devels wouldn't think client/server and frontend/backend for each cmdline echo binary | 18:52 |
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| dschoepe | Can I map control characters such as Escape or Tab to e.g. Fn+y? My naive attempt at just putting them there in rx-51 didn't work; not Fn+y only produces a y. | 18:55 |
| dschoepe | *now Fn+y.. | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: you could run a freq sweep via ALSA (w/o XPROT) and see what freq range the N900 speakers actually support, then for sure cut out any freq bands that wouldn't result in any noticeable output anyway | 18:55 |
| pupnik | i'll download a sample sindewave from somewhere | 18:56 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: mafw doesn't send audio over dbus | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I never suggested that | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | mafw is just using a standard mp3 decoder that has none of the easy-to-implement nice-to-have features like EQ | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | seamless playback of consecutive files... | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | pitch/tempo adjust | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka seamless FFW/REW | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | dynamic compression/expansion | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | whatnot else | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | all much easier to implement in frequency domain rather than time domain | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | for N900 MAFW/PA audio chain I'd not be surprised to learn we got 3 or 4 or more FFT and back | 19:01 |
| RST38h | Ahaha | 19:01 |
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| pupnik | freq sweep 300hz to 5 hz, 5 seconds >> sox -r 22050 -n output.wav synth 5 sine 300-5 | 19:02 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: in this case, all we would have to do is remove the mp3 gstreamer plugin and install a sane one | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: heh, yeah. One that comes with proper UIs for the new features.... friggin nonsense | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | still that wouldn't help for seamless FFW/REW and gapless playback | 19:04 |
| Venemo | why not? | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | because all API is missing for that, as well as GUI support from player, in case of seamless FFW | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | even gapless playback isn't supported by player afaik | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | as next pipe gets set up no earlier than last song ended | 19:06 |
| pupnik | or do sox -r 22050 -n output.wav synth 30 sine 180-20 | 19:06 |
| pupnik | and see at how many seconds the audio is not audible | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I suggest using a semi-decent mic and HDD-recording, then check amplitude and freq in e.g audacity | 19:07 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: gapless playback is not a question of media player GUI | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, in the 80s even 30$ radios came with a product sheet claiming 250-16000Hz. N900 doesn't need such tech specs for customer | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: well, maybe it isn't | 19:09 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: GUI just gives a playlist to MAFW to play, and MAFW plays it. so lack of gapless is a fault of MAFW | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably you have to send the list for next 2 hours playback to MAFW and hope you get notice when next song starts | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | great, so how do you implement cross-fade? | 19:10 |
| Venemo | such stuff needs to be implemented in MAFW | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I'm rather consolidated in my notion MAFW is a brainfucked concept | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | you just need to change gstreamer pipes in mafw | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | mafw's source that is | 19:12 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :) | 19:13 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: actually, is there any concept in Maemo that you don't find brainfucked? :P | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | introducing all sorts of layering issues and limitations for no obvious purpose or benefit | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: sure, a whole lot | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | the fact that mafw's open source means we can have crossfade in stock player | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | actually, the player's just a GUI that does nothing | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the problem | 19:15 |
| pupnik | ok yes, at about 150hz there is no usable music output | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, gimme 5 | 19:19 |
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| MohammadAG | as retarded as Nokia's decision to use the 256MB flash for the OS is, it's better than the iPhone's approach | 19:22 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: What does the iPhone do? | 19:23 |
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| pupnik | actually reversing the sweep from low-to-high is a better test perhaps | 19:24 |
| pupnik | i only start to notice the sound around 160hz | 19:24 |
| pupnik | and i can't increase volume above 1/2 or else the speaker rattles | 19:25 |
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| MohammadAG | Jaffa, wipes the 32GBs when you restore | 19:26 |
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| MohammadAG | a "full" backup doesn't include songs | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: so depending on whether you use ALSA or PA-playing-ALSA or PA-native you get XPROT or mere HW freq plot | 19:29 |
| pupnik | actually i'd say it's about 200 hz | 19:29 |
| pupnik | there's just no usable output below it | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, no useable output sounds about right | 19:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still you want to place the -6/-12dBm point (I'd suggest to use a 12dB/octave filter) to 150Hz, not to 200Hz ;-) | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | nota bene this still would start reducing volume at freq >>150Hz | 19:35 |
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| thomasjfox | does anyone know how I can detect the current build target when building in maemo.org's builder? | 19:39 |
| pupnik | no, no traditional filter... discard freqs... | 19:39 |
| pupnik | simply drop anything below 200hz | 19:39 |
| thomasjfox | "if sb-conf current |grep ARMEL" doesn't seem to work | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: it's physically impossible to "discard frequencies" | 19:40 |
| * pupnik winks at DocScrutinizer who has to think again about how mp3 works | 19:41 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | cutting out a single band in freq domain might sound awful I'm afraid | 19:42 |
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| pupnik | how does mp3 store audio information? | 19:42 |
| pupnik | (and ogg) | 19:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically via additive synthesis | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and a tone with a slight vibrato close to your cutoff freq with infinite sharpness will sound stuttering and awful | 19:44 |
| mintux | how can I see my version of maemo from terminal ? | 19:44 |
| pupnik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_Audio_Layer_II | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | osso-product-info | 19:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# osso-product-info -q OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | 10.2010.19-1 | 19:47 |
| mintux | thanks | 19:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also `echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION` as all those are envs as well | 19:48 |
| lcukn902 | mintux, i have this in one of my makefiles which seems to work ok at least for most builds UNAMEISARM := $(shell uname -m | grep arm) | 19:48 |
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| pupnik | 20.2010.36-2 here | 19:49 |
| pupnik | why you have an older one DocScrutinizer ? | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, PR1.2 here | 19:49 |
| pupnik | 1.3 not to your liking? | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 19:49 |
| pupnik | what should i look-for that sucks? | 19:50 |
| mintux | hmm | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | downgrade path, broken restore when trying to restore for PR1.2 | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia once again managed to fsckup the repos (ok, admittedly only for testing and devel, but nevertheless - the user here that has NO pkg from testing/devel installed please holler) | 19:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so yeah, I can restore to PR1.2 - but STOCK Pr1.2, and that's just an insult | 19:53 |
| mintux | if is install ussd-common can I dial some special code from my phone? | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err wut? | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | use starhash enabler | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's even in extras :-D | 19:54 |
| mintux | when I want to check my credit with this code *140*1# it said incorrect number | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | use starhash enabler | 19:54 |
| lcukn902 | jaffa, the computer detection stuff using 2d barcodes, I have this photo taken from BCN 2009 trip: http://liqbase.net/liq.barcode.advert.barcelona.for.lardman.20091204_002.jpg | 19:55 |
| mintux | thanks | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | thnaks for using *# starhash-enabler :-D | 19:56 |
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| mintux | DocScrutinizer: it said again incorrect number . my number is *140*1# | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | you installed *# ? | 19:58 |
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| mintux | DocScrutinizer : yeap sudo apt-get install starhash-enabler | 19:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm, please use HAM | 19:58 |
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| mintux | also I installed ussd-common and ussd-widget | 19:59 |
| mintux | does it need to reboot? | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't need those | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 19:59 |
| mintux | what is HAM? | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | the app manager | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ham | 19:59 |
| infobot | somebody said ham was oink oink. Hildon Application Manager. Hazardous Application Manager. Hildon application Manager Ham is also lovely with pickle. | 19:59 |
| mintux | ahan | 20:00 |
| mintux | what difference ? | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | *# isn't tested with apt-get | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | and *# is a rather special 'program' | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | it has zero executable binary | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I simply dunno what apt-get will do | 20:01 |
| mintux | hmm | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | esp when run without run-satndalone.sh | 20:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | standalone | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet it will fail, so please use HAM | 20:02 |
| mintux | ok | 20:03 |
| mintux | should I have remove it before? | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't forget to clean aka uninstall it via apt-get previously | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 20:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (topic dialer) you're aware it's absolutely mandatory to quit any call when dialer process quits, for whatever reason, segfault or kill -9 or "pressing the close button" or OOM | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ^^^ unrelated to mintux conv. | 20:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually dialer should even get watched by dsme like some other important processes (bme for example), and process restarted if watchdog expires. Rationale: you MUST avoid to keep calls established on dialer segfault/freeze that cost maybe 9$/min. Even worse keep them established without user even noticing that | 20:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basically if ISI doesn't have a call to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/call/method/ | 20:15 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basimethody if ISI doesn't have a call to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ call/ method/ | 20:16 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basically if ISI doesn't have a method to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware | 20:16 |
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| Proteous | heh | 20:16 |
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| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: mpg123 can do it! "free" eq! http://mpg123.orgis.org/api/group__mpg123__voleq.shtml | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 20:18 |
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| mintux | DocScrutinizer: I installed from HAM not different | 20:22 |
| mintux | doesn't worrk | 20:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's weird | 20:23 |
| mintux | :-( | 20:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mintux: | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | please `cat /home/user/.osso/call-ui.ini` | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | check for " | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | [supplementary] | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ssc=1 | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | " | 20:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mintux: while installing via HAM, you've seen a yellow notifier saying "restarting rtcom-call-ui dialer now" (or words to the effect) ? | 20:28 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer: no | 20:28 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer: just installed application | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess you messed sth up by installing via apt | 20:29 |
| mintux | [rotation] | 20:29 |
| mintux | orientation=2 | 20:29 |
| mintux | [supplementary] | 20:29 |
| mintux | ssc=1 | 20:29 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer:I removed before install from HAM | 20:29 |
| lcukn902 | docscrutinizer?@really installation of app requires interaction? | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | killall -9 rtcom-call-ui | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcukn902: nope | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | just notifier | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it requires hildon access | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | which might fail for apt-get running as root | 20:31 |
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| mintux | DocScrutinizer: done . then ? | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | though it sounds a silly explanation to me, as HAM as well runs apt-get | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | retry | 20:32 |
| hawaii_ | Has anybody built bluez 4.89? | 20:32 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer: what should happen after killall -9 rtcom-call-ui | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and recheck if cat /home/user/.osso/call-ui.ini is unchanged | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing really | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing visible | 20:33 |
| mintux | hmm | 20:33 |
| mintux | after that what should I do? | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | dialer process gets retarted and reads in the config file with SSC=1 | 20:33 |
| mintux | hmm | 20:33 |
| mintux | so open dial and enter number? | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | restarted* | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 20:34 |
| mintux | reboot my phone ? | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | shouldn't be needed | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | start with trying *#61# | 20:34 |
| mintux | :'( incorrect number | 20:34 |
| thomasjfox | answering my own question: "sb-conf show -A |grep -q -i arm" detects if the current build target is ARM | 20:35 |
| mintux | should I remove ussd-common ? | 20:35 |
| hawaii_ | No. | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I told you so | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: ^^^ | 20:36 |
| mintux | hmm | 20:36 |
| mintux | sudo apt-get remove ussd-common ussd-widget starhash-enabler | 20:37 |
| mintux | then install starhash-enabler from HAM | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: testing it here, it works to the extent of reply "request not processed". My carrier supports same with *104*1# which works like a charm | 20:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I hope they haven't fsckd it up in PR1.3 | 20:38 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer: I tried your number *#61# and got error | 20:38 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer: PR1.3 ? | 20:38 |
| MohammadAG | afaik it's on by default in 1.3 | 20:38 |
| MohammadAG | I might be wrong | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's fsckdup by default it seems | 20:39 |
| mintux | DocScrutinizer: I never update my phone since I bought it | 20:39 |
| RST38h | bad, bad idea | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 20:39 |
| mintux | I have lots of setting and information and I afraid to do that . and I don't have enough time to do that | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: this isn't tested for <Pr1.2, might work on Pr1.1 but probably not for older versions of maemo fremantle | 20:40 |
| mintux | hmm | 20:41 |
| mintux | :-( | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | mintux: update! | 20:41 |
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| RST38h | indeed | 20:41 |
| mintux | it's so bad . I can't update my phone soon . because I do a lot of settings on it such as link many directory to home folder | 20:42 |
| mintux | and a lot of softwares | 20:42 |
| RST38h | backup then update | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mintux: what's result of ` osso-product-info -q OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION` ? | 20:42 |
| mintux | 3.2010.02-8.003 | 20:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 20:43 |
| mintux | :-D | 20:43 |
| Strunz | good evening, i have a question to n900 | 20:43 |
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| Strunz | when i start navit on xterm i get the message: "invalid type gpsd", what does this mean? | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mintux: if you would have updated incrementally from 1.0->1.0.1->1.1->1.2 you wouldn't have had any problems whatsoever about losing your config. Alas now I guess a FULL reflash is your only chance. So backup with backup app, then backup /home/user, and MyDocs, via USB mass storage, then do a full reflash as in | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flash | 20:45 |
| infobot | [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 20:45 |
| bakarat | i'm having some trouble with my n900 where suddenly it is unable to receive calls and texts. i have no way of knowing that this stopped functioning until someone tells me they can't reach me.... | 20:46 |
| bakarat | very annoying | 20:46 |
| bakarat | any idea what could be causing it? | 20:46 |
| bakarat | (a reboot fixes it) | 20:46 |
| mintux | ok | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yay, you're like the third report like that, in a few days | 20:47 |
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| mintux | it's always problem I have with linux . it's very hard to upgrade when new version released :P | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | bakarat: might be a hw problem. Reflash to a clean state, DO NOT restore any apps, and test if problem persists. If yes -> repair hw. If no, then come back and we might find the sw causing the error | 20:49 |
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| Strunz | has anyone a answer for my question? | 20:51 |
| Strunz | sorry for my bad english :-( | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Strunz: this probably means N900 has no gpsd of the kind navit needs | 20:52 |
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| Strunz | DocScrutinizer, what must i do to solve this problem? | 20:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry no idea. If I'd guess I'd say you imported and built navit source from somewhere, and it's not adapted to meet maemo system | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically afaik there's no gpsd on maemo5 | 20:56 |
| hawaii_ | minigpsd | 20:56 |
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| vi__ | what what? | 21:40 |
| vi__ | in the butt? | 21:40 |
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| puchaty | i said what what | 21:41 |
| puchaty | in the butt | 21:41 |
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| puchaty | guys | 21:50 |
| hawaii_ | girlz | 21:50 |
| puchaty | anyone know more about android 2.3.3 compatibility? | 21:50 |
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| puchaty | info from e-yes : #android 2.3.3 and Nokia #n900 are compatible:) | 21:51 |
| puchaty | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFQk08xqME&feature=player_embedded | 21:51 |
| puchaty | i can see on this movie sms notyfication | 21:51 |
| puchaty | or something like that.. | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG | #nitdroid | 21:51 |
| hawaii_ | Ask e-yes. | 21:51 |
| puchaty | hmm | 21:52 |
| tarantism_ | Hi, does anyone know about using qdbus with interfaces with hyphens? eg com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer | 21:52 |
| puchaty | i think he doesnt like responsing about nitdroid status | 21:52 |
| puchaty | but maybe have some logs about 2.3.3 from irc | 21:53 |
| puchaty | ;) | 21:53 |
| hawaii_ | Because he gets pestered for support. | 21:53 |
| puchaty | true | 21:54 |
| puchaty | thats why i dont want to ask him :) | 21:54 |
| puchaty | well | 21:54 |
| puchaty | nevermind ;-) | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | tarantism_, QDBus takes QStrings/QVariants, hyphens shouldn't matter in a string | 21:54 |
| tarantism_ | MohammadAG: I get an Invalid interface class: com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer | 21:55 |
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| tarantism_ | Apparently hyphens are invalid in an interface | 21:55 |
| tarantism_ | oh, I see ... maybe | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/nowplayingwindow.cpp#line198 | 21:56 |
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| tarantism_ | MohammadAG: Thanks, I'll look over that code. | 21:57 |
| tarantism_ | That looks perfect. | 21:58 |
| tarantism_ | Not always easy to find this stuff!!! | 21:58 |
| hawaii_ | puchaty; http://gitorious.org/android-n900 | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | yw :) | 22:00 |
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| alterego | Oh no, Mohammedia Player has competition! | 23:26 |
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| RST38h | orly? | 23:26 |
| alterego | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70405 | 23:26 |
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| divan | I used SomePlayer for some time. It eats to much CPU, so I dropped it. Maybe now it's better, dunno. | 23:28 |
| Sc0rpius | and it looks good | 23:28 |
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| Jaffa | Sounds like, from the description, that it doesn't use MAFW & Tracker? | 23:31 |
| hawaii_ | Correct. | 23:32 |
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| alterego | It uses Phonon | 23:34 |
| * alterego chuckles | 23:34 | |
| alterego | And do we trust software written by Russians? | 23:34 |
| Sc0rpius | heh | 23:34 |
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| divan | alterego, is this new kind of racism? ) | 23:35 |
| alterego | Considering the security model that Maemo has (none) | 23:35 |
| alterego | And the fact that Russia is the largest entity when it comes to cyber fraud etc. | 23:35 |
| alterego | I think it's probably a valid point :P | 23:35 |
| divan | I'm from Ukraine, but we're pretty close to Russia and I speak russian usually. | 23:35 |
| alterego | I'm not being nasty about Russians in general, but Russian programmers usually work for the mob, as they get paid a lot more :) | 23:36 |
| Sc0rpius | heh | 23:36 |
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| alterego | All I'm suggesting is, someone audit his code ;) | 23:36 |
| * alterego chuckles | 23:37 | |
| divan | Heh ) I have no objection) | 23:38 |
| lcukn902 | alterego, the most downloaded and adored maemo app (omweather) has a heavy Russian influence | 23:39 |
| alterego | Oh really? Interesting :) | 23:39 |
| alterego | You see? They're very clever ... | 23:40 |
| lcukn902 | only in so far as your views of russian developers | 23:40 |
| alterego | They write popular apps with trojans :P | 23:40 |
| lcukn902 | vlad and tanya and wazd have done a great deal for our devices | 23:40 |
| alterego | I know, I know | 23:40 |
| alterego | I'm just bored. | 23:40 |
| lcukn902 | as well as many other devs up and down the oss spectrum | 23:40 |
| divan | Though, I must admit that Russia(and most ex-Soviet countrires) do not have solid Computer Science education in high schools. Many programmers are selfmade. | 23:41 |
| lcukn902 | well please stop insuting entire nations | 23:41 |
| * SpeedEvil puts on 'Blame Canada'. | 23:41 | |
| alterego | Well, I wasn't insulting an entire nation, just an entire nations programming population | 23:42 |
| alterego | :) | 23:42 |
| hawaii_ | LOL | 23:42 |
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| alterego | Maybe their FOSS software is so good because they dedicate more time because they get paid millions for their "real" work ... | 23:42 |
| hawaii_ | Sputnik. | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Laika. | 23:43 |
| * SpeedEvil will never forget. | 23:43 | |
| divan | ))) | 23:43 |
| * SpeedEvil forgets what he will never forget, but I will never forget that I was to never forget something. | 23:44 | |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe. | 23:44 |
| alterego | divan: are you coding lisp again? | 23:44 |
| lcukn902 | alterego he is just finishing something he started months ago | 23:44 |
| divan | alterego, not funny ) | 23:44 |
| alterego | Haha | 23:44 |
| alterego | lcukn902: yeah, doing better than me to be honest. | 23:45 |
| alterego | I've not worked on Columbus for almost a month :x | 23:45 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if columbis can do bus timetables. | 23:45 | |
| alterego | No :P | 23:45 |
| * SpeedEvil needs to fix his keyboard. | 23:46 | |
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| flat` | is ther app that when u plug in headphones, it starts musicplaye | 23:52 |
| flat` | r | 23:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is an app which pauses the media player hen phones are unplugged I think. | 23:52 |
| chx | seriously??? | 23:52 |
| chx | there are sensors for that?? | 23:53 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 23:53 |
| hawaii_ | headphoned | 23:53 |
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| hawaii_ | Actually, headphoned will pause when unplugged. | 23:54 |
| Jaffa | chx: Yes, have you not noticed the status area gains an icon to show you when headphones & headsets are plugged in? And that it has its own volume level. | 23:54 |
| chx | mmm true. | 23:54 |
| hawaii_ | If you want it to start when plugged in, you can use actionmanagerdaemon | 23:54 |
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| pupnik | see... n900 is powerful | 23:57 |
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| pupnik | can the windows mobile community hack their device this easily | 23:57 |
| pupnik | i doubt it | 23:57 |
| hawaii_ | ... | 23:58 |
| pupnik | even android is a pain to work with. I had to go to some haxxor site to get a ssh daemon which i couldn't trust, had no feedback | 23:58 |
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| pupnik | to build their browser takes like 15GB | 23:59 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/u8-3-0-touch-screen-dual-sim-dual-network-standby-quadband-gsm-tv-cell-phone-w-wifi-java-red-55711 | 23:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | Check out the on-screen 'widgets' | 23:59 |
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