IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-02-27

* ShadowJK uses uSD swap all the time00:00
DocScrutinizerothers say they use that config all the time00:00
Turtle^^i was thinking about taking some space space from 0p2 or 0p1 in hopes that they maybe fatster00:00
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: maybe your back cover magnet is loose? ;-P00:00
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: no, it's in there fine00:01
luke-jrhow does the magnet affect the uSD?00:01
luke-jractually, I don't think it's even a magnet00:01
DocScrutinizerTurtle^^: eMMC is one flat 32GB storage chip, so mmcblk0pX are all same speed00:02
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: it IS a magnet, and it umounts and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver00:02
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: quite obviously your swap on uSD will crash the whole system when back cover gets removed or "removed"00:04
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: why?00:04
DocScrutinizerduh? you're *still* asking why?00:05
SpeedEvilSwap pages being not present does bad stuff.00:05
DocScrutinizerunplug your HDD with swap on it from your desktop PC to learn why00:05
* SpeedEvil proposed ages ago per-user swap.00:05
javispedroluke-jr: try booting stock kernel with back cover removed, access sdcard.00:05
luke-jrmagnet removal might trigger an umount, but that would fail if it's swap in use00:05
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luke-jrmagnet removal != uSD removal00:05
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: NOPE00:05
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ShadowJKmagnet removal causes pretty much the same behaviour as removing the uSD :-)00:06
DocScrutinizerthe low level kernel driver for the uSD slot even powers down the slot00:06
DocScrutinizerso magnet removal == sd card removal00:06
DocScrutinizerwhich part of ""... and rmmods (or sth) the uSD driver..." was too fuzzy?00:07
MohammadAGhildon-home in portrait mode, PoC
ShadowJKAnd it definitely is a magnet. The first Mugen back covers didn't have a magnet, so I smashed apart the headphones included with my N810 and harvested the tiny magnet in them, taped it to the cover, and microsd card worked again :-)00:08
DocScrutinizerit's definitely the magnet that also holds the kickstand00:09
DocScrutinizerthe hall switch is next to that00:09
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MohammadAGShadowJK, you could've patched the uSD driver so it always returns false :P00:11
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Irctime_this was me on usd swapon and removing the backcover :D00:13
Irctime_device reboots instantly00:13
MohammadAGlemme guess, reboot?00:13
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DocScrutinizerFeb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - HAL device:'/dev/mmcblk1p3' removed:00:17
DocScrutinizerFeb 26 23:13:56 IroN900 tracker-indexer[20992]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker -   UDI^I : /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_part3_size_13946060800:17
MohammadAGyeah, mafw actually has code to monitor the card00:17
DocScrutinizerFeb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: prop_modified:1889: udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_mmci_omap_hs_0_mmc_host modified button.state.value00:19
DocScrutinizerFeb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 ke_recv[10649]: event_in_cover_closed:1209: E_OPENED for ext-MMC00:19
DocScrutinizerFeb 26 23:13:55 IroN900 kernel: [84791.120025] mmc0: card 697b removed00:19
DocScrutinizerbtw mmcblk1p3 is a linux swap partition size 128MB on that uSD00:23
pupnikwhat are you doing DocScrutinizer ?00:24
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DocScrutinizernah, that uSd partitioning predates N900, it actually has kernel on a ~13GB VFAT p1 that'S also used for general data sharing and dump, p2 is ext3 holding a SHR system for FR, p3 are 128MB swap00:25
DocScrutinizers/ext3/ext3 rootfs/00:26
pupnikhas someone figured out a way to install the root filesystem to mmc / SD and bultiboot that?00:26
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: nah, that uSd partitioning predates N900, it actually has kernel on a ~13GB VFAT p1 that'S also used for general data sharing and dump, p2 is ext3 rootfs holding a SHR system for FR, p3 are 128MB swap00:26
turtle^^so as you said emmc is one big 32gb thing, no matter where the swap is it wont have any effects on speed right? cuz thats what i wanted but i guess it can only give us more space if we make the swap smaller, thats the only benefit we can get right?00:26
DocScrutinizerturtle^^: ack for the speed part - sorry "can't parse" for the rest00:27
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pupnikhe wants to make swap smaller to get 'more space'00:28
alteregoWhat, 5 megs? :D00:28
alteregoswap is 512M00:28
alteregoDo you really need that?00:28
DocScrutinizerturtle^^: one suggested solution to the swap fragmentation was to split the way too huge 750MB swap int two, then do a swapon 1&&swapoff 2 every 24h00:29
pupnik Swap:       786424       139996       646428    on my device00:29
turtle^^no i dont want a smaller swap .. just wanted to speed it up00:29
javispedropupnik: I think that yes, someone cloned maemo to mmc and booted it from there (iirc the problem was pin entry dialog crashing)00:29
DocScrutinizerturtle^^: resucing fragmentation will speed up swapping00:30
DocScrutinizerask ShadowJK00:30
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DocScrutinizerturtle^^: that's the root cause for "device gets sluggish after 3 days uptime" issue00:31
turtle^^i dont mind rebooting device hehe00:31
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ShadowJKWhat I do: swap on a separate partition on uSD. With "iostat -m" (part of sysstat in extras-devel), when the amount of bytes written to swap partition exceeds the size of swap partition, I swapon internal mmcblk0p3 swap, swapoff usd, swapon usd, swapoff mmcblk0p3. Typically after 2-4 days of "normal" use the amount written to swap has become big enough to warrant the swapon,swapoff,swapon,swapoff cycle. Or, an hour or two of fennec use :P00:32
DocScrutinizeronly other tuning for swap is moving it to uSD, so the interface to eMMC doesn'T get congested with swapping while it should read/write to files00:32
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: nice :-))) mind to share the exact scripts?00:33
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turtle^^maybe have both the swap partitions on usd00:35
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turtle^^and swapon/off there00:35
DocScrutinizercan do that as well00:35
turtle^^emmc remains untouched00:35
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javispedromoving it to swap makes the device go quickly hot here00:35
javispedro(so I guess it reduces battery life)00:35
DocScrutinizerso you don't need to move all the swapped out pages TWO times00:35
javispedro*moving it to sd :P00:35
ShadowJK adjust it for your needs, etc00:35
ShadowJKecho 0 > reswap.stat on boot00:35
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you're a hero00:36
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ShadowJKI just manually run it whenever device starts feeling sluggish00:36
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, no problem. you can help me with some highschool-level electronics later :P00:37
pupnikhas anyone re-attached their flaky usb?00:37
mortenvpHi guys, trying to do a: "sudo mad-admin create -f fremantle-pr13"00:37
DocScrutinizera please :-D00:37
DocScrutinizera pleasure00:37
DocScrutinizergrr, if I manage to kickstart the other half of my brain until then ;-)00:37
mortenvpBut it fails with a: "Can not find '/usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/cache/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz' -- no such file."00:38
DocScrutinizerpupnik: nothing heard about such execise, but should be simple00:38
DocScrutinizerohno, abill-uk did :-P00:38
Macerso with the advent of winmob on nokia phones... how will maemo fair?00:39
mortenvpAny advise on how to get the fremantle target.. A url or something?00:39
ShadowJKWell Maemo was already buried before winmob :P00:39
* pupnik looks at maemo and thinks it's basically awesome00:39
Macerthe meego stuff is getting there on the n90000:39
Maceryeah pupnik it is a shame really00:40
Macerthey really dropped the ball with maemo00:40
DocScrutinizermaemo isn't dead until they roll out the poisoned m600:40
Macerisnt't meego m6?00:40
Maceri like what stskeeps is trying to do tho00:40
DocScrutinizerm6 maemo-harmattan meego lookalike BS00:41
Macertrying to open up the n900 as much as he can to get it in the mainstream arm kernel00:41
DocScrutinizerwhile sacrificing all the real good things in maemo00:41
DocScrutinizerwithout any need00:42
Macersounds like a backport00:42
DocScrutinizerCSSU is the real effort to get maemo to a state where it's 100% upstream ready00:42
Macerwell. maemo isnt the problem00:43
pupniki hate people who say 'nokia has no ecosystem' - what are we?  chopped liver?00:43
Macernokia/ti is ;)00:43
Macerafa the n900 is concerned00:43
SpeedEvilpupnik: We're what remains after the planes with the agent orange in have been over.00:43
MohammadAGso many things that could've been fixed, if stuff was open source00:43
* javispedro shouts STANDARD NERDS! then goes back to typing ROLLBACK TRANSACTION TO SAVEPOINT ...00:43
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MohammadAGif a hildon-home in portrait mode concept took less than 5 minutes00:44
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MohammadAGit only proves that in 1 year, there was no effort to get it done00:44
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pupnikMohammadAG: what would you want to do in portrait mode.  1) phone  2) sms  3)....?00:45
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ooooh, that's been a nice one :-)00:45
MohammadAGphone works fine00:45
MohammadAGconversations just needs the portrait flag and minor fixes00:46
DocScrutinizeractually I feel like having taken a deep breath of agent orange00:46
MohammadAGmediaplayer needs a whole new layout, can be easily done00:46
Maceryou can put hildon in portrait?00:46
ShadowJKWould be cool to have fontsize change back in conversations00:46
turtle^^whats an agent orange ?00:46
DocScrutinizerin fact I did - well sorta - some 30 yeard ago00:46
jacekowskiturtle^^: google it00:46
jacekowskiturtle^^: it's a defoliant00:46
MohammadAGMacer, concept:
JaffaMohammadAG: And has been for OMP?00:46
MohammadAGJaffa, yeah00:46
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MacerMohammadAG: that was some sort of "bug"00:47
Maceri thought that was some sort of debugging thing00:47
pupnikDocScrutinizer: did you spend some time in vietnam in 1980?00:47
MohammadAGMacer, no, it's my edits to hildon-desktop's code...00:47
DocScrutinizer51pupnik: they sold the same shit to varnish your wood ceiling in Europe00:48
DocScrutinizer51google xyladecor00:48
Macerwell... the maemo base is all in place for the n90000:48
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MohammadAGMacer, the "bug" you mentioned kept widgets aligned horizontally00:49
MacerMohammadAG: yeah00:49
MohammadAGmy edit unlocks positioning, although it's not neat00:49
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: only in germany00:49
Macerthe status bar would also fall off the screen00:49
MohammadAGJaffa's trying to get an algorithm for this00:50
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DocScrutinizer51well, dosn't help me out ;-D00:50
Macereither way... maemo has all the parts required for the n90000:50
Macerall it would really need is either a better hildon or a new interface00:50
* Jaffa might mock something up.00:50
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JaffaAlgorithmically, not graphically :-)00:51
MohammadAGhildon is epic00:51
JaffaI love my N900. Just wish it was faster and had some bugs fixed.00:51
MohammadAGit just needs someone to pick it up00:51
MacerMohammadAG: it is pretty good. but there are no devs that want to do much with it00:51
MohammadAGalterego, ever thought about something? in Qt we listen to screen size changed, in some gtk apps, the apps listen to mce signals00:52
Macersince in 5 years n900s will be collectors items00:52
MohammadAGthat means layout fixing starts after rotation00:52
MohammadAGMacer, that's the problem00:52
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MohammadAGI'm actually excited about Cordia00:52
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MohammadAGMeeGo + Hildon00:52
Maceri saw a yt video of it00:53
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Maceri just hope meego supports all the n900 hw before 201500:54
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jonwilI think that if Nokia can help with, we can do great things with the N900 :)00:54
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SpeedEvilWe could all buy a share, and go to the next stockholders meeting. :)00:55
jonwilit would be even better if we could have source code to thinks like the dialer app. But that's never going to happen :(00:55
pupnikDocScrutinizer51: why do they outlaw all decent wood-protection :/00:55
DocScrutinizer51it doesn't taste good enough. It's concidered cruel to offer such evel stuff for suicide00:56
pupnikjonwil: is there a meego dialer app yet?00:56
jonwilno idea.00:57
jonwilBut even if there is, there is no way its going to be a suitable replacement for the maemo dialer app on maemo.00:57
javispedroof course there is, pupnik.00:57
javispedrowheter it sucks or not...00:57
pupnikjavispedro: can it run on maemo?00:57
jonwilthe maemo dialer app is tied to too many other things to be replaced easily00:58
javispedropupnik: for a start it will require ofono.00:58
mortenvpHi guys, I'm looking for the following file: fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim.tar.gz is it available somewhere00:58
MohammadAGQt SDK installer should dl it00:58
mortenvpMohammadAG, ok - so do I have to use the Nokia Qt SDK to get it.. I was hoping I could download it and use it with madde without installing the Nokia Qt SDK01:00
MohammadAGah, not sure, sorry01:00
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pupnikmy app manager no-longer shows the pr 1.3 ota update... what can i apt-get to do the pr 1.3 update?  i have Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap101:00
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yigalwhat is the command line command to start easy debian chroot, I want to start a session via ssh?01:01
pupnikapt-get install mp-fremantle-203-pr  ?01:01
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javispedropupnik: got a n900?01:02
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pupnikjavispedro: fixed the waterdamaged one!01:03
pupnikalcohol DOES solve some problems :D01:03
javispedroafter so many months, and it survived? impressive!01:03
pupnikit's beautiful... /me tears01:03
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yigalreally no one has ever wanted to start debian chroot via ssh?01:04
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: haha :-D01:04
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javispedropupnik: you can consider yourself very lucky =)01:04
yigalyes, but if I remember there are special scripts for Easy Debian01:05
yigalthat makes ure to mount things properly01:05
javispedroyigal: I suggest you ask on where the author posts some times01:05
* javispedro uses his own chrooter at this point01:05
luke-jrI wish Quassel2Go had a more X-Chat like UI01:05
yigalqoles a very cool dude01:06
luke-jrwith channels on the left and change via the volume control01:06
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: maybe switch to xchat?01:06
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: xchat loses out on stuff people say when I lose signal :P01:07
DocScrutinizerooh I see01:07
DocScrutinizerwell, probably it'd be easy to patch sth like ZNC a tiny bit, and patch xchat just so uch as to send a ACK for each pkt sent by ZNC01:09
DocScrutinizerZNC already supports buffering and playback on connect, it just needs a bit faster disconnect on conection stall01:09
RaveniquEgoodnight everybody01:11
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pupnikznc sounds good01:12
DocScrutinizeractually I'm a bit pizzled about IRC being tcp and still it doesn't norice about lost packets01:12
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DocScrutinizerand puzzled*01:12
* DocScrutinizer heads to the corner, weeping01:13
ShadowJKit's generally a bit cumbersome from an app to figure out what packets have made it to the other side and what hasn't01:13
SpeedEvilTCP is only badly affected y lost pacets at >25% or so01:13
SpeedEvilInteractrive TCP01:13
* SpeedEvil played a lot of MUDs01:13
jonwilbtw I am 100% convinced that it would be possible to figure out all the non-UI stuff needed to write a dialer replacement, it would just be a matter of finding someone familiar with Telepathy, Mission Control, osso, dbus, libhal and glib01:13
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SpeedEvilWhen exponential backoff kicks in, it gets unpleasant.01:14
luke-jrQuassel2Go doesn't support downloading backscroll at all01:14
luke-jrwtf is the point01:14
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such?01:14
ShadowJKFrom the "2go" part I assume they made a "mobile" version, and removed the one feature that makes standard quassel good for mobile use?01:14
luke-jrit can't01:14
MohammadAGit does01:14
luke-jrIRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps01:14
MohammadAGit isn't forging01:14
luke-jrShadowJK: yeah01:15
luke-jrwell, *someone* did01:15
luke-jrMohammadAG: forging is what I want :p01:15
MohammadAG[01:14:50] <luke-jr> IRC protocol doesn't allow forging timestamps01:15
MohammadAGit does that ^01:15
ShadowJKservers don't send timestamps to clients in general, not in any meaningful way anyway :)01:15
luke-jrShadowJK: that's the problem01:15
ShadowJKBut inter-server protocol is all about time stamps :)01:15
luke-jrwhen I rejoin, I don't want everything in history timestamped as connect-time01:15
DocScrutinizerZNC does01:15
MohammadAGlet's patch freenode!01:15
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: meh, maybe I'll try it01:15
ShadowJKMy N900 just never loses connectivity :>01:15
luke-jrShadowJK: impossible in the US :p01:16
luke-jrN900 doesn't support any carrier with decent coverage01:16
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DocScrutinizer[00:15] <luke-jr> (00:13)  DocScrutinizer: ZNC playback supports timestamps and such?01:16
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, to the client, the timestamp is connect-stamp sadly01:16
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MohammadAGif you have timestamps enabled in xchat that is01:16
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* jonwil suspects that finding someone with telepathy skills is going to be almost impossible :P01:17
DocScrutinizerfirst is xchat reception time, second is ZNC real send time01:17
MohammadAGyeah, he wants the xchat time to be forged01:17
MohammadAGwhich is something I've never seen01:18
pupnikhow do you guys turn-off the cell radio when you don't need it?01:18
DocScrutinizerwon't fly, that's locally generated01:18
DocScrutinizerIRC doesn't send timestamps01:18
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SpeedEvilpupnik: there is an applet01:19
DocScrutinizerpupnik: tablet mode01:19
DocScrutinizeror airplane mode01:19
SpeedEvilpupnik: Also - offlinemode sometimes01:19
pupnikk... looking for that01:19
pupniklol ty01:19
SpeedEvilpowerbutton menu01:20
yigalok so that was easy enough after a bit of searching, mkdir ~/.debian2 && quserchroot /media/mmc1/debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2 ~/.debian2, or something similar01:20
psycho_oreosthere's alarmed that can set to airplane mode iirc01:20
pupniktotally forgot about that menu01:20
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DocScrutinizerthere's an update to alarmed that's nagging me every 24h, but has conflicts :-(01:22
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* jonwil thinks the idea of a maemo distmaster is a good idea01:23
MohammadAGwe have no distmaster01:23
jonwilsomeone suggested becoming one and working with Nokia to release more code01:23
DocScrutinizerthat's why jonwil says it's a good idea ;-)01:23
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jonwilsomeone who could prepare code that is releasable for release and could also potentially fix bugs (and push binaries) in code that cant be released01:25
MohammadAGI already asked if they could do that themselves01:26
MohammadAGapparently, the devs can't01:26
jonwilI think the issue is that01:26
jonwilthat Nokia doesn't have the resources to do anything01:26
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divanhmm.. while untarring archives (.ipk files, actually) I've got unexpected reboots on N900 a few times. Latest power kernel and swappolube enabled.01:27
yigaljonwil: and by that you mean brain power in high up places01:27
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jonwilNo, I mean people to review the code and remove anything that cant be released.01:28
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jonwile.g. remove internal email addresses, intranet URLs and other such things01:28
yigalyes I know that you didn't mean that, but I did01:28
Jaffajonwil: DocScrutinizer: Sent email to Nokia about pending licence changes. qgil's in Helsinki next week so will have some chats.01:28
jonwilsounds good01:29
jonwilThat list of 8 or so requests covers all the closed source things that A.Have a valid use case for being opened up and B.Are actually likely to be opened up01:29
jonwilThe list doesn't include things people asked for without a valid use case01:30
pupnikRST38h: btw i'd like to suggest changing controls in vulture's eye.. make the arrow keys do 'diagonals' only when combined with CTRL key01:30
* MohammadAG wants the dialer open sourced01:30
jonwilso do I01:30
MohammadAGmediaplayer, not so much, already challenged Nokia there01:31
jonwilbut thats never going to happen01:31
pupnikwhy not jonwil ?01:31
MohammadAGpupnik, you can never be optimistic on #maemo :P01:31
jonwilNokia have already said that "User Experience/UI" is a "point of difference"01:31
pupnikthe UI of Dialer?01:32
jonwiland thats why they wont open up their UX like the dialer or messaging app01:32
jonwilAlso, opening up the dialer pulls in a lot of other lower level stuff that they may not want to open or publish01:32
pupnikah i see01:32
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jonwilI am sure that Jaffa and others would agree with me that its not worth asking Nokia about the dialer when there are other things that are far more likely to be opened up that we can ask for01:33
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MohammadAGbme isn't one of them :p01:34
jonwilyeah asking for BME to be opened wont help01:34
jonwilbut I think the 8 items we asked for have a reasonable chance of success01:34
jonwilhildon-plugins-notify-sv should be possible, I suspect the main "secret sauce" in there would be in the way it controls audio routing and priority to ensure ringtones can override anything else being played01:35
MohammadAGisn't that part of hildon-home?01:36
jonwilits a separate package01:36
jonwilcalled hildon-plugins-notify-sv01:36
jonwilThere is a notification daemon thats part of hildon-home01:36
jonwilwhich loads the plugin hildon-plugins-notify-sv and talks to it01:36
MohammadAGmy bad01:37
jonwilMy guess is it was originally closed source because of the details of it talking to the audio stack01:37
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jonwilI think the main issue with the SMS code is that opening up libsms and csd-sms is going to require opening dev packages for libisi and stuff (they said in the past "no we cant open that stuff up because it pulls in the modem control protocol")01:40
jonwilAlthough that was probably before ofono-n900 existed01:41
pupnikfresh new battery is a nice thing01:41
jonwilany argument of "we cant open this up because it exposes details of the cell modem" can likely be countered with "anything exposed by this will also be exposed by the ofono source code"01:41
pupnikis ofono what the openmoko guys used?01:42
pupniknice jonwil01:42
jonwilno, the FreeSmartPhone guys working on n900 are using ogsmd01:43
jonwilalthough I think they borrowed bits of ofono code for it01:43
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jonwilThe request for Fremantle MCE, not sure how likely that is, I guess it depends on whether there is anything left in there that is sensitive01:44
jonwiland if there is, how hard it would be to remove01:44
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MohammadAGthe fact that something as easy as that is "Open" defines laziness :P01:45
DocScrutinizerpupnik: nope, OM/SHR is using FSO01:46
DocScrutinizerwhere FSO >> ofono01:46
pupnikok and meego is using ofono?01:47
jonwilI am hoping that the ICD request can be fulfulled01:47
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jonwilthere are some good things that would be possible with some of the ICD stuff]01:47
DocScrutinizerjonwil: ofono borrowed by FSO, FSO borrowed by ofono, both rely on openmodemapi specs01:47
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: yep, afaik meego is based on ofono01:48
jonwilactually ofono was written by Nokia employees and does actually contain code taken from the previous telephony stack01:48
jonwili.e. its not a cleanroom implementation01:48
DocScrutinizerwhile I stopped to bitch on them to switch to FSO :-P01:48
DocScrutinizerjonwil: sure01:49
DocScrutinizerofono just is plagued by severe NIH syndrome01:49
* jonwil hopes N900 MeeGo gets GPS01:50
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DocScrutinizerafaik FSO has been there prior to ofono, but the ofono guys put down FSO offer to cooperate and join into one project, by the rationale of FSO being a mere AT interface to modem. Now ofono is more of a AT interface than FSO :-P01:51
SpeedEvil1GPS is easy01:51
SpeedEvil1We can do GPS today. Not AGPS -but...01:51
RiDHmm, i feel like i'm the little mouse hiding from those big cats.01:51
pupnikhi RiD01:52
DocScrutinizerFSO is a comprehensive middleware covering all from ofono/ISI over mce til alsa-ped01:52
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MohammadAGhey RiD01:52
RiDpupnik: hi :)01:52
DocScrutinizerwhile ofono became what they objected to FSO01:52
jonwilAll that we have for GPS at this point is an incomplete reverse engineering of a handful of the couple dozen packets sent to the GPS resourcfe01:53
RiDMohammadAG: Hi, I still remember the Snap to Grid failure i did.01:53
MohammadAGset it to 0? :)01:53
SpeedEvil1jonwil: It can connect to the GPS, and get a position.01:53
SpeedEvil1jonwil: I agree APGS would benice01:53
DocScrutinizerwhat we have for GPS is the complete specs for the cmt FW verion yet to come for N900 :-P01:53
RiDMohammadAG: Yes, I promise i won't be half asleep anymore.01:54
MohammadAGheh, you might be able to recover with R&D mode if you do it again :p01:54
jonwilLast I heard the right people are working on porting the Maemo GPS stack to MeeGo with the intent of releasing it01:54
DocScrutinizerso odds are meego never will see the GPS API for the cmt FW version we got on N90001:55
* Arkenoi is still in confusion about auto rotation. It seems to be enabling and disabling in quite a random fashion. Say, i have it "enabled" in messaging, then i switch to fbreader, it is disabled there, i press ctrl-shift-R and whoops -- it is enabled in fbreader and instantly disabled in messaging01:55
RiDOh, talking about R&D mode, didn't disabled it. I'm really lazy when it comes to certain things.01:55
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jonwilI think what was said is that once its made to work, discussions about making bits of it open source will follow01:56
DocScrutinizerRiD: R&D will eat your batery01:56
jonwilI think there is no objection to releasing the GPS information, just that its easier to port the existing code than to write a new implemenation01:56
SpeedEvil1Just dump the code.01:57
jonwildump what code?01:57
SpeedEvil1I mean - who has a rapuyama GPS.01:57
DocScrutinizerjonwil: this BS about "first implement then open" gets me upset every time they do that01:57
SpeedEvil1It's not a commercial issue.01:57
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jonwilit may be that there are issues with proprietary algorithims used in the userspace bits01:57
RiDDocScrutinizer: My battery never really lasted more than one day (before R&D and after). But will disable it, maybe tomorrow.01:57
* SpeedEvil has real doubts as to 'magik seeeeekrit algorithms'.01:58
jonwilin any case there is nothing more I can do as far as pushing for things to be opened (I would file a bug asking for dialer UI to be opened but I figure that would just be a waste of my time and everyone elses)01:59
SpeedEvilAfter the whole BME thing.01:59
DocScrutinizermagic secret BS how to kill batteries01:59
pupnikpart of the problem is the software-patents that came out of the USA like a cancer02:00
DocScrutinizerthe only secret it there's no secret and they don't want to admit they have NFC about it02:00
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DocScrutinizerso when Nokia says "bme has secrets" they actually mean "bme is arcane... to us"02:01
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DocScrutinizerOTOH from what I heard Nokia might get sued for bodily and metal harm done to all of us, when disclosing the bme sources02:03
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DocScrutinizerand from what I've witnessed when RE'ing bme behaviour, I'm inclined to believe in that02:04
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javispedromental, mental harm.02:05
DocScrutinizerbme is the typical case where watching the actions of a program inevitably invokes nightmares about how the sourcecode will look like02:05
DocScrutinizerlol, yeah02:05
DocScrutinizerheavy mental harm02:05
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SpeedEvilThere was an interesting talk at defcon 18 (17?) About using compiler to obfuscate asm.02:06
DocScrutinizerso, just another time (I stopped counting): we DO NOT WANT BME DISCLOSED, please keep it, please delete and shredder it, a nine year old child probably would write a better program02:07
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trumeeguys, how good does icedtea6 perform on N900. I know of a student who has to do a java based project. The student could develop something for N900.02:09
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MohammadAGjavispedro, is finalize called when a widget is destroyed?02:15
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javispedrowhen any gobject is finally destroyed02:16
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MohammadAGso I should unref objects there right?02:19
javispedrotechnically not, you should unref them in dispose02:19
javispedrohowever, what are you doing that requires you do to override a finalizer?02:20
DocScrutinizerJaffa: fine :-) Hope you can convince him about the need for opensourcing more stuff for maemo, to back up whatever direction the Nokia FOSS ship is sailing (meego is based on maemo knowledge, and fails where it's not ;-D ), and maybe you can convnce him it's worth a few hundered bucks/month to support greatest community ever affiliated to Nokia02:21
MohammadAG javispedro02:21
MohammadAGjavispedro, not sure, the docs had it in the example :P02:21
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javispedroMohammadAG: I see that you're defining a new gobject but I also see that you're missing a lot of the gobject boilerplate. :S02:22
MohammadAGjavispedro, .h file?02:22
javispedronope, orientation_lock_status_plugin_class_init02:22
javispedroah yes02:23
javispedrosorry, I see it now.02:23
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javispedrobut you should override the finalizer in the class init function.02:23
javispedrosee how it overrides both dispose and finalize02:24
javispedrodispose used to unref owned objects, finalize used to anything else and final destruction02:24
MohammadAGwell, I just need to unref priv->gconf_client02:25
RiDIt's funny how many people are actually connected to this chat but only a few are talking. I do have to stop reading those monospaced Courier New characters, they're so small (of course i can use zoom but i'm lazy!) Going to sleep, I don't want to do half-asleep problems like i did before. Bye everyone ;)02:25
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RiDI mean, *room not chat. Well, it's a chat anyways.02:26
DocScrutinizer G_OBJECT_CLASS(grm_pvt_parent_class)->finalize(object);  \o/ I *love* c++ (while this is actually a macro not exactly related to c++ first instance)02:26
MohammadAGisn't this C?02:27
DocScrutinizernot sure, looks like c++ to me02:27
APTXit's c02:27
javispedroit's gobject C =)02:27
APTXgobject crap is c02:28
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jonwilIf we had libbmeipc headers, it would be trivial to write a drop-in BME replacement for maemo that supported all the BME bits that things like hald-addon-bme and pulseaudio-modules-nokia-closed-source require02:30
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pupnikwhat's the better-font for terminal again02:48
pupniki have courier and it's too light02:48
pupnikall the noise posters since n900 release on t.m.o really suck that site down02:49
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psycho_oreosI personally use android fonts for console02:52
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: I personally use android fonts for XTerminal02:52
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DocScrutinizerif Nokia came out with a rather silly industry standard requirements spec, as in "thermal: monitor R1130/ADCIN0 for >1255 := OVERTEMP, cell >75°C, stop charging, limit discharging to 500mA, <312 :=UNERTEMP, stop all charging. || 911: disable all protective functions on IPC telegram like in bmeipc.h struct signal-ISI-emergencycall || charging: CCCV 4.200V 800mA, follow bq27200 scheme for recharge...." we even could implemet a drop-in02:54
DocScrutinizerreplacement for bme that gives Nokia the cosy feeling that their battery is treated with all the love and care it deserves02:54
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psycho_oreospupnik, Droid Sans Mono @ 12 is what I personally use02:57
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pupnikpsycho_oreos: can you help jog my memory how to set the terminal font?02:58
pupniki suppose this is a .ttf02:58
psycho_oreosnfi, but under X Terminal there's that down arrow followed by Font to set the fonts02:59
psycho_oreosyeah they are .ttf files03:00
psycho_oreosplaced in: /opt/maemo/usr/share/fonts/truetype03:00
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pupnikty psycho_oreos03:12
psycho_oreospupnik, found what you were looking for? :)03:12
pupnikyah it's strange how information gets lost in the brain03:12
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pupniki LOVE "easyplayer" !03:14
tgais there a way to install a full linux environment on a n800?03:14
tgaI don't care much about battery life so I'd like a regular system with a full cron and all that03:14
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psycho_oreosmaybe via chroot?03:15
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tgapsycho_oreos: ideally I'd like to fully remove maemo and install something like debian03:15
psycho_oreostga, then again the support status maybe varied03:16
tgaI can't find that much on this online03:16
tgasome people with broken android03:16
tgaeasy debian as a maemo package03:16
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pupniktga: not so many people are interested in that03:19
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tgapupnik: indeed, whoever was interested in nokia tables moved to a n900 by now03:20
tgaand even those aren't that many03:20
tgatablets rather03:20
psycho_oreosthere was a project to get gentoo onto NIT devices, don't know if that's available for N800 nor would it allow native booting03:20
tgaI was hoping to be able to use this n800 as a generic computer running linux or bsd03:20
tgawith touchscreen+sound+wireless03:21
ShadowJKluke-jr was working on gentoo03:21
tgait looks like I'm asking too much, might have to make do with maemo03:21
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tgaShadowJK: interesting03:22
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luke-jrtga: we had Gentoo working, but I haven't updated in a while (my N810's battery is totally dead)03:24
luke-jrand slonopotamus screwed over the overlay -.-03:24
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luke-jr(at the very least, he deleted the MBX driver and moved the repo to github crap)03:24
tgaluke-jr: do wifi and sound work?03:25
luke-jrtga: IIRC there was a problem with sound on N80003:25
tga(that's what I need for a smart alarm clock)03:25
luke-jrN810 uses a different sound hardware, so worked03:25
tgayeah, I see the android guys couldn't get that working either03:25
tgamaybe I'll just install cron on maemo and make do with that03:25
tgait is almost debian after all03:25
pupnikn810 speakers are godly, but they do take up space03:26
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tgathe n800 speakers are suddenly so much better after using my htc desire for a while03:26
* tga just found the n800 abandoned in a drawer03:26
ArGGu^^does anyone know under what license file /usr/share/sounds/Emailalert1.aac is?03:26
tgaideally I'd like to rig a full screen web display on it and an alarm clock script03:27
tga <-- will this work on a n800?03:27
luke-jrtga: Maemo 4 is beyond dead now03:28
luke-jrtga: you might try Gentoo with Maemo4-kernel with gstreamer03:29
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tgawell the only thing I need and don't have atm is a cron03:30
zanberdoI've just installed an icon pack to my n900 but I haven't a clue how to select them for use...03:30
tgaI can't figure out how to launch stuff at a given time03:30
tgaluke-jr: any guide out there on playing with gentoo?03:30
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luke-jrtga: we made one, but it was on slonopotamus.org03:31
luke-jrnfc if it's still around03:31
luke-jrhe seems to have imported it to
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tgais that reall usable?03:33
tgareally rather03:33
luke-jrfor CLI03:33
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luke-jrtga: no idea. I don't have N800, just N81003:34
tgadoesn't sound promissing03:35
psycho_oreoswell there's not much other choice :)03:35
tgawith android tablets going under $200 now, I don't see a bright future for this n800 :)03:36
tgawhich is a shame, because the hardware is all there, a bit of software support would make it into an usable interface03:36
tgahow about this, any idea whether I can get a totally full screen browser on default maemo?03:37
psycho_oreoson the contrary have a look at how 770 NIT owners would have fared :)03:37
tgawhat do you mean?03:37
psycho_oreossupport for their devices is even more rare than that of N800 :)03:38
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tgaright, also a shame03:39
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psycho_oreosunless you're a dev/hacker there isn't much one can do on a hardware that will soon face extinction with nokia. Its just how they work03:40
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tgatoo bad the hardware isn't more generic to just support a general-purpose distro03:41
tgaI guess my master plan is to use it as a fullscreen display for a custom web page03:41
tgaand see whether I can maybe also push sound to it03:41
psycho_oreoswell you're talking about embedded devices :) they were meant to be used for things that were to consume as little battery as possible (which hardly is the case but nevertheless that was the original case)03:42
psycho_oreoss/original case/original plan/03:42
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: well you're talking about embedded devices :) they were meant to be used for things that were to consume as little battery as possible (which hardly is the case but nevertheless that was the original plan)03:42
tgayeah, that's my problem with it wrt cron03:43
tgathere is no real cron because it would eat too much battery03:43
psycho_oreosiinm arm devices are `tick-less' they don't have RTC to begin with03:44
tgawell there is a clock on it03:47
tgaargh, frustrating, there is no default way of making the screen never turn off03:47
tgamax is 5 minutes03:48
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tgaany ideas?03:48
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lucenttga: what do you mean about the screen?03:50
tgathis n800 is fighting every attempt to make it useful03:50
tgaby default the screen turns off after max 5 minutes03:50
lucenttga: if you get the applet that does screen brightness, it has a backlight control setting to keep it on always03:50
lucentwould that be useful?03:51
psycho_oreosclock as in the hardware clock? hmm I thought I did see when compiling kernel for N900 there was an option with tickless03:51
tgaumm yes03:51
tgabrightness applet, I'll go check03:51
psycho_oreosN900 has that03:51
lucentI use that when I need to share my phone with somebody else, because other people new to using my phone get confused when the backlight turns off :)03:51
lucent"What do I ... DO!!!!!?!?!"03:52
tgawaaait a minute, are you talking about the n900?03:52
lucenttga: yes, N900 and Maemo503:52
nox-keeping it on alway would eat battery...03:52
lucentnox-: alternative is other person gets mad and smashes my phone trying to make it "wake up"03:53
tgaI'm trying to put a N800 to use here03:53
nox-lucent, tell him to just hit a key03:53
lucentquestion for you all today, my GSM internet connection on N900 drops sometimes, and when I go to reconnect the connection it tries a long time before failing03:54
lucentI must reboot the phone before it will get a network connection again03:54
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lucenthow do I debug this?03:54
Jaffalucent: Reflash out of the question?03:55
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lucentJaffa: Reflash did not fix this issue, but if you're asking if I'm willing to reflash then answer is yes03:56
lucentthis is a regular issue and I'm frustrated that rebooting the phone is a common procedure when I use it03:56
lucentevery 2-3 days the GSM Internet connection won't connect anymore, reboot03:57
nox-lucent, have you tried installing that 2g/3g switcher applet and forcing it to 2g?03:57
tgahmm, what would be a good way to push sound from a web page to a n80003:57
tgathe browser doesn't quite do html503:57
lucentnox-: good question, I have Phone Settings set to 2G only and no-3g03:58
nox-lucent, ah hm ok thats probably the same effect03:58
lucenthow do I know why it failed though?03:58
* nox- has to force 2g only `sometimes' here, when 3g is down03:59
lucentwhere is the process to type some commands and get log output that would tell us why this won't connect?03:59
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psycho_oreosits not always in there though04:01
nox-i also saved this link:
nox-tho havent really played with this stuff yet04:01
lucentpsycho_oreos: good idea, nothing notable in dmesg04:01
lucentI don't know what my log level is though04:01
psycho_oreoslucent, yeah I guess most of the lower level stuff such as those are usually not very verbose04:03
lucentwho would know, or where could I go to resolve this?04:07
lucentyou folks are very helpful and I want you to know that I understand that much :)04:08
lucent"time to reboot" is not acceptable for me on a Linux based device.04:08
psycho_oreosforums sometimes would help :)04:08
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* luke-jr Gate Hacking04:12
lucentgate hacking?04:12
lucentnot finding anything about that on Google outside of vague game references04:13
lucentoh, it was a vague game reference. I understand now.04:14
lucentThank you, Google.04:14
psycho_oreosmaybe a custom kernel would be another option. Though you said before you've flashed the device before, was that both fiasco and emmc or just fiasco or emmc?04:15
lucentpsycho_oreos: I've left the emmc alone, I think.  Just kernel / OS reflash never touch user data04:16
psycho_oreoslucent, ever installed something like autodisconnect?04:17
lucentpsycho_oreos: no autodisconnect here04:17
lucentI am running a Titan kernel04:17
lucenton a stock install though it's the same problem, after 2-3 days of use it just won't get a successful 2G GSM / EDGE connection anymore for internet ; phone calls continue to work fine04:18
psycho_oreoslucent, and this issue happened just recently or has it been like that since the beginning? I'm starting to ponder whether it would be a hardware issue04:18
lucentsince the beginning of owning my phone04:18
lucentgreater than a year now04:18
lucentwhen I travel and there is 3G available, I think 3G only mode is fine and I do not have these problems04:20
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DocScrutinizerlucent: reflash plain system, completely incl /home (I.E eMMC/VANILLA), DO NOT restore anything from backup, test with the plain system. If it works you're facing a nice enterprise to find out which software is causing the error, if it does *not* work you should send in device for repair immediately04:48
DocScrutinizerodds are this is a hw failure04:49
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DocScrutinizerlucent: make sure you are using the correct image for your area, there might be differences in cmt firmware taking care about particular peculiarities of some of your GSM carriers04:52
lucentDocScrutinizer: thanks04:53
DocScrutinizerjust in case try and check back with your carrier's hotline, they might know about issues like that04:53
lucentit *is* T-Mobile04:54
lucentI'm not expecting miracles there04:54
lucentyes sir04:54
* DocScrutinizer frowns04:54
lucentI'm in a ski town where several carriers compete for coverage of the resort slopes04:55
DocScrutinizermight be the cause04:55
lucentI work there, and commute daily between coverage zones04:55
DocScrutinizerUS carriers practice cheerful anarchy regarding obedience to any standards. So it's not unlikely your special air situation is causing some conflict hat N900 cmt doesn't know how to handle. This would most likely not be a explicit bug in modem, but rather some idiocy of carrier setup. Your hotline might actually know details04:57
lucentoh! that's a surprise, really04:58
lucentI'm thinking in terms of what line of code must I forcibly rearrange to make this work04:58
DocScrutinizerI doubt there can be done anything in linux land about it04:59
DocScrutinizeranyway, first step: reflash to plain OOTB state05:00
lucentthen why would reboot fix the symptom?05:00
lucentwe don't know?05:00
DocScrutinizerreboot also resets cmt05:00
lucentcan I reset CMT without reboot?05:00
DocScrutinizerthough actually yiu'd think going airplane mode as well should do this05:00
DocScrutinizeryes, ^^^05:01
lucentokay, I will try airplane mode now05:01
lucentpower button press ; swipe unlock ; power button press ; Offline mode05:01
DocScrutinizerairplane mode should power down all TX in N900, and goinf back to normal mode should restart05:01
lucentwaited, now switching to normal mode05:03
pupnikDocScrutinizer: you getting those speakers soon?  i'd like you to confirm that they work05:04
pupniksince they look different than what i have here05:04
DocScrutinizerJaffa: do you know if cmt FW is flashed every time you flash COMBINED, or does it need some trick like downgrading and then upgrading again, or maybe changing to international and back to US version, to force a cmt FW flash?05:05
lucent"2.5"G indicator ; select "T-Mobile internet" from connection selector ; after about 30 seconds I get "Internet connection failed. Try again?"05:05
DocScrutinizerlucent: repeating procedure won't help05:05
lucentcorrect.  rebooting now, to try05:05
DocScrutinizeryou should select auto for 2G/3G05:06
lucentwhy auto, if there is no 3G service anywhere around here?05:06
lucentnot for hundreds of miles05:06
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DocScrutinizerbecause possibly forcing it to one band is creating problems that won't appear on auto. Auto is the genuine mode for modem05:07
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lucentokay.  That's new information to me :)05:07
lucentFYI the reboot is complete, connected to "2.5"G indicator and internet is up on T-Mobile internet05:07
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lucentDocScrutinizer: do you mean "Dual" Network mode ?05:08
DocScrutinizerstrange. Well - as said above - next step: OOTB plain image05:08
lucentor "Network selection" automatic05:08
DocScrutinizeryes, dual05:08
Kevin_Bnite guys05:09
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DocScrutinizernetwok selection forcing it to your carrier might help as well05:09
Kevin_Bseems like gcc maemo compiler provided in nokia Qt sdk can't handle void* pointer arithmetic05:09
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Kevin_Bis there a way to get this?05:10
luke-jrKevin_B: makes sense, SINCE THAT'S ILLEGAL05:10
DocScrutinizerthere might be a 'rogue' alternative carrier that keeps the phone trying to register, or actually just it's roaming and the network has no data at all05:11
Kevin_Bmingw-gcc provide it05:11
lucentDocScrutinizer: but phone calls still work?05:11
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DocScrutinizerif you're roaming on a alien network and this network doesn't allow data, that would show exactly this effect then05:12
lucentunderstand, now :)05:12
lucentthat does happen when I travel every day, I roam and one of the networks doesn't allow data05:13
DocScrutinizeryou could use netmon to check details of carrier, band, BTS ID etc, so maybe you find some patterns05:13
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lucentDocScrutinizer: any immediate way to log all that information timestamped and such?05:21
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DocScrutinizerumm, maybe via syslog and dbus-monitor. But I'm not really sure how netmon acquires that info05:24
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zakkkmluke-jr, still around ? How you been?05:34
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luke-jrzakkkm: busy05:36
zakkkmluke-jr, remember me?05:36
zakkkmjust got me one of those N900s05:36
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pupnikpretty cool eh zakkkm05:41
luke-jrzakkkm: oh well05:44
zakkkmpupnik, still trying it out though, have no time :)05:44
zakkkmnot liking the battery that much though05:45
zakkkmquestioning whether i should pay $9.99 and get joikuspot05:46
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pupnikto tether something to n900 zakkkm05:47
pupnikthere's a free app too05:47
zakkkmi tether my n900 to my desktop.. got unlimited data ( Toronto, Canada ) .. but you know other devices, maybe friends and such05:47
zakkkmi was thinking of some bash script i could just run, and package it myself05:48
pupnikthen there's also usb-tethering with the pc-suite05:48
zakkkmmake it have like a on and off05:48
zakkkmyeah im doing usb tethering now05:48
luke-jrzakkkm: Mobile Hotspot is in extras05:48
zakkkmdidnt see that?05:49
zakkkmthought i went through them all05:49
pupnikluke-jr: what's the best battery grapher05:49
zakkkmgot the extras-devel too, unsure if i should get extras-testing05:49
pupnikso i can get an idea of my usage habits05:49
zakkkmdoes it do WPA2?05:49
pupniki see only WEP05:50
luke-jrpupnik: Eye05:50
zakkkmyou guys use normal microb browser?05:51
luke-jrwhen I browse05:52
pupnikopera here05:52
zakkkm know what icon set that is?05:53
zakkkmso is meego/nitdroid worth trying, or should stick to maemo ?05:54
pupnikwow that looks neat05:54
pupniki think if it's fun to try them then do, but neither are more useful05:54
luke-jrzakkkm: none of the above05:55
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: I heard bat eye is eating bat :-P06:07
DocScrutinizerpupnik: I suggest script and redirect taht to a file if you want devent logs06:08
zakkkmis it sad to say i think maemo 3 looks better than 5?06:08
DocScrutinizerzakkkm: well, for quite a number of aspects I think m4 is better than m406:09
zakkkmm4 is better than m4?06:09
DocScrutinizere.g complete functionality via hw keys - while on m5 you can't even open a menu without touchscreen06:10
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zakkkmwhen the n900 was first shown, looked so cool and loved it mostly cause of the speed, which seemed muchh faster than n800, and also 3d06:10
DocScrutinizermeh m4 > m506:10
zakkkmbut now having the n900, i miss maemo 3 with plankton :P06:10
pupnikm5 did away with oldschool 'start menu' style application launcher06:11
zakkkmif they didnt all WSOD ( like my old 770) i would attempt to acquire one06:11
DocScrutinizerI found some ways to leverage this flaw in m5 via modified hildon desktop, to some extent06:11
zakkkmyou guys overclock? or mess with system services? i find maemo 5 alot slower than i thought it would be06:11
zakkkmhavent done CSSU yet, does that help?06:11
DocScrutinizernah, OC is for fools06:11
pupnikwhat exactly seems slow zakkkm06:12
zakkkmwindow animations06:12
zakkkmswitching apps mostly06:12
DocScrutinizerhmm, then tune the transitions :-P06:12
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zakkkmi enabled the "use custom window animations(fast) from theme thing , which helped06:12
DocScrutinizer"there's an app for that" ;-P caled transition tweaker os sth like that06:14
DocScrutinizer"there's an app for that" ;-P called transition tweaker or sth like that06:15
pupnikDocScrutinizer: you seem to be right - idle current was 25mA without battery eye, 55mA with it06:15
zakkkmhow you testing mA amount?06:16
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zakkkm25mA idle?!06:16
zakkkmthats high06:16
DocScrutinizernot for a script running every 5 seconds06:16
pupnikcompared to what zakkkm06:16
zakkkmaverage phones06:16
zakkkmor smartphones rather06:17
DocScrutinizeroh, do avrg phones shell scripting?06:17
DocScrutinizerand WLAN ssh?06:17
zakkkmssh is in alot of phones?06:17
pupnikthis is going over wlan ssh06:17
DocScrutinizerpupnik: I knew, as I get exactly same figures06:18
zakkkmgotta pick up on my shell scripting , get my LPI level 2 certification06:18
pupnikthanks for confirm... let me know when you test those speakers pls DocScrutinizer06:18
DocScrutinizerpupnik: increase cycle time to 60s to see current drop massively06:18
DocScrutinizerI never ordered those speakers, I wish I had, though they won't get tested as they are suppoesed to be original spare06:19
pupnikoh i was holding-off on my order06:20
pupnikwill order tonight06:20
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DocScrutinizerI'm still waiting for my bare PCB to arrive06:20
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pupniklooks like they wait to put a large set of orders on a boat to europe or smth06:21
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pupnikmuch-better mame for maemo06:23
DocScrutinizerNotes:  order sent out on 14th Feb 2011 by normal airmail,it always takes 3-7 weeks to delivered06:23
pupnikairmail = hot-air balloon?06:25
DocScrutinizerwait til it drifts by somewhere near my, driven by the winds06:25
pupnik:)  hmm now i'm getting more readings like 16-22mA06:26
DocScrutinizerI seem to recall JApan shiped bombs to the western countries this way, in WW206:26
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DocScrutinizerPSM on?06:27
pupnikPSM is what?06:27
DocScrutinizerWLAN PSM06:27
DocScrutinizerpower saving06:28
pupniki assume so?06:28
DocScrutinizerI'd rather check :-)06:29
pupnikyes, on (maximum)06:29
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DocScrutinizercheck your script06:32
DocScrutinizer  RS=22 !06:33
DocScrutinizerhas been 30 at times06:33
DocScrutinizerthe peaks at 39, 44mA are due to GSM06:33
DocScrutinizer05:32 4175 100  100  -13  1380 1380 1380 65535 6150  26  006:34
DocScrutinizer05:33 4175 100  100  -10  1380 1380 1380 65535 7734  26  006:34
DocScrutinizer05:33 4175 100  100  -12  1380 1380 1380 65535 6459  26  006:34
DocScrutinizer05:34 4172 100  100  -15  1379 1379 1379 65535 5428  25  006:34
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pupnikheh i am losing ssh to device on inactivity06:35
pupnikscript is from early last year06:35
DocScrutinizerduh, I found about bq27200 last summer iirc06:35
DocScrutinizerso script hardly can be older than that06:36
DocScrutinizeraaah, no wait06:37
pupnikApr  4  2010 bq27220.sh06:37
DocScrutinizeractually it's not been me who found the bq27200, I think I found bq2415006:37
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pupnik05:36 3779 0    0    -31  0    0    0    65535 0     297 006:38
pupnik05:36 3789 0    0    -17  0    0    0    65535 0     297 006:38
pupnik05:37 3789 0    0    -17  0    0    0    65535 0     297 006:38
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DocScrutinizerseems there's sth eating a 5 some mA06:39
DocScrutinizermight be WLAN06:39
pupnikbattery eye is running06:39
DocScrutinizeryou could run the script on local xterm, and disconnect06:39
DocScrutinizerwell, for a prog accused to be a bat hog that'S not that bad06:40
DocScrutinizerthat'S another 4mA06:41
DocScrutinizerso you're like 10mA high06:42
pupnikok ill stop battery eye and run bq from terminal06:42
DocScrutinizerand disconnect WLAN06:42
DocScrutinizershould get you down to <1006:43
DocScrutinizeractually way less than 1006:43
DocScrutinizeronly when screen blanked ;-D06:43
pupnikok thanks.  will let this run06:44
DocScrutinizernotifier LED breathing light is humble06:44
DocScrutinizerI'd guess a 0.5 avrg06:44
pupnikthat's not running06:44
DocScrutinizeryou disabled breathing light?06:45
pupniki think yes... it's certainly not doing anything06:45
zakkkmis CSSU any faster, or just bug fixes?06:45
DocScrutinizermost of us are just happy with performance of OMAP3430 at 600MHz max ;-D06:46
zakkkmohh maybe you know, Mail exchange keeps saying like cannot connect06:46
zakkkmfirst synchronization is fine.. then just randomly stops working06:46
zakkkmwould use normal "email" i just want contact/calendar sync though too06:47
DocScrutinizerI think I've seen that on PR1.006:47
DocScrutinizernever used any sync though06:47
zakkkmsynchronisation failed. error in communication with exchange server06:47
zakkkmversion 20.2010.36-2 i assume its PR1.3?06:48
DocScrutinizerpupnik: for reference: idle, GSM, blank screen, via WLAN PSM max WPA ssh06:51
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: with wlan off, screen off, no gsm i get -14 - -15 mA over the last minutes06:54
DocScrutinizermeh, that's too much06:54
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DocScrutinizerfor a 30s period of bq27200.sh06:55
pupnikyes oh.  i see battery eye continues running after closed gui06:55
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pupniksomething is starting python -OO /opt/maemo/usr/lib/advanced-power-monitor/ start06:56
pupnikahh "advanced power monitor" package06:58
Macerpupnik: sounds like it uses more power monitoring it07:00
pupnikyeah i unstalled everything battery-monitorish and rebooting now - will see if i can get it lower07:00
Macerdoesn't battery eye also use the monitoring daemon?07:01
Maceri wonder how many times it monitors... probably isn't too bad if it does it once every 20 mins or so07:02
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pupnikMacer: maybe all it does is log that data when not onscreen07:03
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DocScrutinizerwell, I seem to recall rumour about it refreshing graphics even when in background and screen locked :-P07:08
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DocScrutinizerI really love this video that guy published there. Don't even understand Italian and still it's absolutely clear what'S going on :-D07:10
pupnikrebooted, offline mode, 14-15 mA07:11
DocScrutinizerpowertop, see what processes got lots of wakeups07:12
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pupnik"Tax protester William Monroe once wrote: 'I have to buy less food, less tobacco, less recreation; I would LIKE to buy LESS GOVERNMENT.'"  hahah07:16
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xDaReaperxi went through this and i wanted to know a possible way to actually find out if my battery was original07:40
xDaReaperxany proper command to see the max capacity ?07:40
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DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: completely charge, discharge, charge, discharge, then run bq27200.sh07:45
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pupnikok it was my kernel DocScrutinizer - the nokia kernel has been averaging -2 -3 mA07:45
DocScrutinizerwithout removing battery in between07:46
DocScrutinizerpupnik: o.O07:46
pupnikjust sitting there, doing nothing07:46
DocScrutinizerpupnik: what's wrong with your kernel then?07:46
pupnikdunno some old experimental kernel07:46
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DocScrutinizeranyway nice to learn your hw is ok07:47
pupnikyes yes1 thanks for the help07:47
DocScrutinizertime for chilling07:48
xDaReaperxthank you07:49
DocScrutinizerand if chocolaate maan visits, say "hi bot". Don't expect an answer though ;-P07:49
DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: actually you ma want to run 60 >mybatlog.txt all the time, while charging discharging completely, to see where cell gets low/full07:51
xDaReaperxactually batterygraph shows 1207 full charge07:51
DocScrutinizerbq27200 chip isn't guaranteed to learn bat capacity in just 2 learning cycles07:51
xDaReaperx1250 is the max right ?07:52
DocScrutinizermeh, battery graph I'm not trusting07:52
xDaReaperxhmm okay07:52
DocScrutinizer13080 here07:52
DocScrutinizer1380 actually07:52
xDaReaperxit's the original ?07:52
xDaReaperxcause as far as i've read i've seen max was 1250 or something around 130007:52
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DocScrutinizerthat's design capacity. good cells may go igher07:53
xDaReaperxand when ever i do a full charge after unplugging it shows only 95 or 96 % charged07:53
DocScrutinizernever mind, that's bme lies07:53
DocScrutinizerall just lies :-P07:53
xDaReaperxoh okay07:53
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xDaReaperxis this Japod battery good ?07:55
xDaReaperxnice which command did you use ?07:56
xDaReaperxthis one it self right ? 60 >mybatlog.txt07:57
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DocScrutinizer30 but yes07:57
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DocScrutinizeryou might want to use 30007:58
DocScrutinizeraka 5 min07:58
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DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: make sure you got RS=22 in that script08:01
DocScrutinizernot RS=3008:01
DocScrutinizerand don't erase your script when restarting, watch out to use >> instead of >08:03
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: and don't erase your log when restarting, watch out to use >> instead of >08:04
RobbieThe1stSpeaking of which, this is (at east essentially) the same thing as the original charger, isn't it?
DocScrutinizerwhen bat-low alarm yells, you might need to `stop bme`08:05
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: according to the URL yes08:05
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DocScrutinizerafk, bbl08:07
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pupnikwhy is RS=22 better than RS=30?08:08
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DocScrutinizerbecause of that's the correct value for the sensing resistor08:36
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DocScrutinizermaybe 20, but obviously not 3008:37
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* jonwil wishes he could find someone who knows lots about how to program telepathy and related APIs09:21
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RST38hNASA Says Nuclear Warfare Could Reverse Global Warming!09:38
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DocScrutinizercool, but please not in my garden09:58
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DocScrutinizerDocScrutinizer says a Colt .45 can avoid dying from cancer10:01
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* jonwil wonders if people here actually care about making maemo better or if they have all given up and moved to other platforms10:11
* RST38h cackles at that10:11
jonwilMy guess is that people do care about making maemo better but they just dont care about trying to replace, clone, reverse engineer or figure out the closed source bits because its too much work :P10:13
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JaffaMorning all10:14
jonwilMorning jaffa10:15
* DocScrutinizer wonders how to fill global warming into cans, so today could get any better by opening a few10:16
jonwilwho is qgil?10:16
DocScrutinizerquim gil10:16
jonwiland he is?10:16
jonwilSomeone at Nokia I assume10:16
jonwilbut what position?10:16
DocScrutinizerNokia FOSS evangelist10:16
villagerjonwil: I'd reimplement stuff like the calendar, just that I don't have time10:16
villagerjonwil: so it's not that I don't care...10:17
jonwilFind me a telepathy/missioncontrol guy and I could have a large chunk of the non-ui information required to write an alternative dialer app figured out within a week :P10:18
jonwilThe #1 and #2 problems with a dialer clone or replacement is 1.figuring out all the things the current dialer does and 2.finding a set of tests that is guaranteed to test every feature10:21
jonwilI suspect the dialer does a lot of things that most people would never think of10:22
RST38hYou do noy necessarily have toduplicate every internal thing it does10:23
RST38hDoc: So,it is no longer Meego and back to Maemo?10:24
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RST38hAh wait he simply  has not updated his linkedin profile in years10:25
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jonwilYou dont have to duplicate everything but you have to figure out all the features it exposes to the user10:26
jonwilFor example the dialer does special things with certain special phone numbers (USSD or whatever it is)10:27
RST38hjonwil: this has nothing to doto the dialerit is part of the gsmstandard10:28
RST38hAnd I do suspect that most things dialer does end up in DBus calls10:28
juki was crying today after read late news, and pictures of crying meegoids... :'(10:28
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jonwilMost of what the dialer does results in dbus calls or telepathy calls10:30
DocScrutinizerRST38h: well, some things are a bit special about *# codes. For sure the reaction to the reply is not like with a normal call10:30
jonwilthe non-ui stuff10:30
jonwilthere are also a bunch of addressbook calls10:30
jonwiland some libhal calls10:30
jukok, i'll go, i cant anymore :'(... here it is
DocScrutinizernow it's getting funny10:31
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DocScrutinizerHeck, we even tolerated the resistive screen on the N900 ... KTHNXBYE10:32
jonwilbut yeah most of the important stuff the dialer does likely goes through dbus and through telepathy/missioncontrol10:33
jonwilthe HAL stuff seems to be audio related10:33
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DocScrutinizer:nod: mhm10:34
DocScrutinizerthere's more to dialer than just sending ATD+18005551234510:34
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jonwilyep, thats why its so hard to clone10:35
jonwilat least clone in a feature-complete way10:35
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jonwilits not rocket science, all it would need is someone with telepathy skills, an interest in improving maemo and enough time to work on it :P10:47
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RST38hjonwil <-- apparently has not estimated the complexity of the whole task10:52
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RST38hit is not only the dialer, you know...10:54
KaadlajkI took a look at the call-ui source code, might take a while to clone it :P10:54
jonwilCloning it might take some time but figuring out all the external interfaces wouldn't take anywhere near as much time10:55
jonwili.e. everything non-ui related that its doing10:55
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jonwilif you know the important things its doing, you can clone things bit by bit :)11:00
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ebzzryHi! Does anybody know the tmo and wmo page discussing how to mount the external microsd card automatically sl startup, if it is fully formatted as ext2?11:10
jacekowskimost of scripts have hardcoded vfat11:11
SpeedEvilI cheat11:14
SpeedEvilI use a queen beacon script to do startuppy things11:14
SpeedEvilThat's set to run once.11:14
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ruskieI cheat... I modify all the stuff to actually support ext ;)11:16
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ebzzryI'll try the one described here:
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jacekowskiwhy do you want ext211:21
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ruskiebecause not everyone runs vfat on their sd cards...11:22
* timeless_w7ip sighs11:22
ebzzryjacekowski: Because of file size limits11:23
ebzzryIt's OK. I have EXT2FSD installed on Windows system that I use.11:23
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* timeless_w7ip rotfl11:25
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timeless_w7ipavs: did you see ?11:26
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RST38hSlashdotter attempts at humor only cause pity11:32
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Termanagood morning11:46
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avstimeless_w7ip, yes11:53
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* timeless_w7ip sighs11:59
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timeless_w7ipis there a magic table somewhere that maps ubuntu releases to debian releases?12:00
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dm8tbrI don't think such a thing would be feasible12:03
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Corsactimeless_w7ip: what would you like precisely?12:05
Corsacpackages versions in various releases?12:05
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timeless_w7ipa way to use a certain ppa from debian w/ the lowest chance of failure12:08
timeless_w7ipand don't tell me "debian and ubuntu aren't compatible"12:08
timeless_w7ipi don't give a F****12:08
timeless_w7ipi can also not use apt for this, and i'd be happy12:08
Corsacwell, they are at matching releases, which is your point :)12:08
timeless_w7ipi believe that squeeze and lucid are the pair i care about12:09
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timeless_w7ip is awesome btw, the webapp converted -- into a single character12:09
timeless_w7ipto ensure that all of the commands will fail12:10
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Corsactimeless_w7ip: on the debian PTS you have the various debian version and (I guess) the version in current ubuntu release12:17
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Corsac for example12:17
dm8tbrtimeless_w7ip: I'd guess that squeeze would be on par with last year october's ubuntu. just a guess though12:17
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Corsactimeless_w7ip: you can have the same kind of view for all packages from a maintainer, but not for *all* packages12:18
CorsacI remember that something like that exists but I can't find it right now12:18
pupnikWilliam Clay. Democrat • 1st District, Missouri • 6th Term • Sworn In 2001  "There's no way the Federal Reserve could possibly have an effect on the value of the dollar"12:18
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keriotimeless_w7ip: just install the latest one12:22
kerioif it complains about libraries, install the one before that12:22
kerioit shouldn't make that big of a difference for normal programs12:22
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kerioalso w7 ¬_¬12:26
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timeless_w7ipkerio: err12:42
timeless_w7ipthe point is that the one available from the default debian release is too old12:42
timeless_w7ipthere's a ppa which offers the version i want, but i'm supposed to pick an ubuntu distro so it can try to be nice to me about dependencies12:43
keriotimeless_w7ip: yeah12:43
* timeless_w7ip ponders trying to send a patch for the linux kernel12:43
kerioso install the latest one, and if it complains about dependencies, install the previous one12:43
timeless_w7ipwell, not really the kernel, technically linux/README :)12:43
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timeless_w7ipis there an apt-get install --not-really-just-tell-me-if-you-would-like-me package flag? :)12:44
ruskiedpkg iirc can force stuff avoiding deps and errors12:44
timeless_w7ipruskie: totally not the goal here12:45
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timeless_w7ipthe goal is to provide a way for an admin to install a version of a package i'd like if the admin insists on using apt to manage the package12:45
timeless_w7ipwith the understanding that w/o providing a non debian repo, the admin would be unable to install a version of the package that i'd like12:45
dschoepeMy (new) n900 drains about 20% battery in 8h without usage (3G, wifi and GPS disabled, all X applications closed, screen locked). Is that normal?12:48
ruskiecheck what the cpu is doing...12:48
timeless_w7ipdschoepe: so you're getting 5 days standby?12:48
pupnik8 hours = 1 day?12:48
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timeless_w7ip1 business day :)12:49
timeless_w7ipok, <2days12:49
timeless_w7ipdschoepe: that's low12:49
pupnikdschoepe: there can be many causes of that12:49
dschoeperuskie: BatteryGraph shows some spikes about each hour12:49
timeless_w7ipdschoepe: you might have media which is being 'indexed' (or causing the indexer to throw fits)12:49
timeless_w7ipdo you have presence disabled?12:50
ruskiedschoepe, cpu use.. not battery monitor...12:50
dschoeperuskie: oh, I meant cpu usage, batterygraph displays that12:50
pupniki bet you installed a bunch of stuff that uses cpu12:50
dschoepetimeless_w7ip: I didn't enable it myself, is it on by default?12:51
timeless_w7ipdschoepe: shrug, you haven't added any accounts?12:51
timeless_w7ipdid you buy it new or used?12:52
ruskieI'd check top to see if there is some process using a lot of cpu time...12:52
timeless_w7ipand you haven't installed anything?12:52
dschoepeI have installed various daemons like shortcutd and headphoned, but they shouldn't use any noticeable amount of CPU, right?12:52
timeless_w7iphave you added widgets to your desktop?12:52
dschoepeyeah, but just a calendar, feedingit(with auto-update disabled) and that location-thingie12:53
timeless_w7iptry ditching calendar12:53
timeless_w7ip(and ditch location)12:53
timeless_w7ipheck, while you're investigating, ditch them all!12:53
* timeless_w7ip ponders12:54
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timeless_w7ip"i'm using this calendar thing which shows me future events. it seems every hour some power is burned. that couldn't possibly relate, could it?"12:54
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dschoepethat would explain the spike in CPU usage, that batterygraph showed every hour12:55
timeless_w7ipif you were wrinting "my first calendar daily view", how would you write it? :)12:55
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dschoeperuskie: htop doesn't show anything suspicious, except hildon-desktop and X using about 10% but not continuously12:56
timeless_w7ipout of curiosity, is there anything in your calendar? :)12:56
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timeless_w7ipfwiw, desktop widgets are part of hildon-desktop12:56
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dschoepeyes, but only about 5 appointments, one of which is shown12:56
timeless_w7ipsure, so "my first calendar" might want to decide if it should hide or change the display of that one appointment :)12:57
timeless_w7ipanyway, try w/o those widgets and see how things go12:58
dschoepeyeah, will do12:58
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timeless_w7ipheck, it sounds like you can monitor overnight to find out if that does it12:58
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dschoepespeaking of which, could the logging that batterygraph does, cause it?12:59
timeless_w7ipanything that results in wakeups and i/o isn't free12:59
* timeless_w7ip doesn't use such tools and doesn't know what their expected cost is13:00
dschoepeokay, removed that too, lets see if that helps13:00
dschoepethanks for your help13:01
timeless_w7ipdo pop back to indicate what happened13:01
pupnikscoobertron: are you using the nokia kernel?  i just found that the 'power kernel' sucked power13:02
pupnik(not oc'd)13:02
timeless_w7ippupnik: *shocking*  :)13:03
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pupnikcan i insert microsd while power is on?13:12
dschoepepupnik: yes13:12
dschoepe(at least I could without any problems)13:13
SpeedEvilBecause the power to the microSD is turned off when the back cover is opened.13:13
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BluesLeeMohammadAG: ping13:13
pupnikworked fine here SpeedEvil13:15
BluesLeeMohammadAG: concerning the cssu, is the phone application also closed source? otherwise adding filtering on incoming/outgoing etc calls like in extended call log makes sense13:15
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jonwilthe phone dialer app (rtcom-call-ui) is closed source unfortunatly13:15
jonwilCall filtering features is something I would really love to be able to do13:16
jonwilbut its not possible unfortunatly due to the fact that the dialer app is closed source13:16
BluesLeejonwil: thanx for the info13:16
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jonwilI am working on reverse enginering the phone dialer (more specifically all those non-ui bits that would be required to produce a replacement) but I lack the telepathy knowledge to advance it further :(13:17
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BluesLeei have a kind of bug: i use OptimizeN900 on a daily basis with alarmed but in same cases i am not able to use the ui anymore as a background screen "select font" comes to the foreground and i cant get rid of it, just rebooting helps13:17
BluesLeejonwil: did you have a look on the dialer apps from the openmoko project, shr etc...13:18
jonwilThe issue is not "write a phone dialer"13:18
jonwilthe issue is "figure out all the special stuff the stock dialer does"13:19
jonwilit does all sorts of things like USSD calls13:19
jonwiland stuff connected to emergency numbers13:19
pupnikthank you Thomas Tanner for 'locate' utility!13:19
BluesLeejonwil: okay ... i guess the shr guys have the same problem with their port13:19
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* ZogG hugs pupnik 13:20
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jonwilthe only way to get that information (assuming Nokia wont release the dialer source code) is to reverse engineer the dialer (something which no-one except me seems to be particularly interested in :P13:20
BluesLeejonwil: what about the meego dialer, does it also use telepathy?13:20
jonwilits not just telepathy13:20
jonwilits all the other things the dialer talks to13:20
* pupnik needs locate like oxygen13:21
pupniki bet we could have the media framework use the locate system instead13:21
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SpeedEviljonwil: I'm interested too.13:21
jonwilbtw the need for this info only matters if you are using the maemo telephony stack13:22
SpeedEviljonwil:  But am currently spending time taking apart my bathroom.13:22
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jonwilFinding people that actually know anything much about telepathy seems difficult13:22
BluesLeejonwil: i had also big issues as i tried out a dual sim card as there is no special menu for it13:22
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pupnikhey ZogG i don't see locate command13:23
pupnikand no updatedb either13:23
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BluesLeejonwil: switching between the two sims didnt worked on the n900, no problem on old nokias13:24
jonwilThat feature may require changes in the cellular modem firmware13:25
jonwilDepends how it works13:25
ZogGpupnik me either13:25
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BluesLeejonwil: the only cool thing was that the adapter was a non cut version which fits perfectly in the n90013:26
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ZogGpupnik, the funny thing, i do have it on desktop but don't rememeber what package does have it so don't have it on laptop =)13:28
ZogG -- nice new linux =)13:29
pupnikZogG: - mlocate or slocate are the common packages13:30
jonwilI recon if we knew the special stuff the dialer does (telepathy, dbus, HAL etc) writing a new dialer wouldn't be that difficult\13:31
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ZogGpupnik i mean "locate"13:33
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pupnikhmm reinstalling javisp's new dosbox gives no usable config file or keyboard layout13:36
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Veggenhmm. tåke idag. Ikke noe prøve-teleskop-vær, iallefall...13:52
ZogGsay wut13:52
Veggen#wrong channel.13:52
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timeless_w7ippupnik: speedevil was explaining a technical detail14:22
timeless_w7ipyou aren't actually inserting the uSD card to a live bus. the power to that slot is off when the cover is removed. this prevents harm to things.14:22
pupnikoh i see14:22
timeless_w7ippupnik: i'm not certain that tracker always honors file extensions. it's possible it ignores them...14:24
ZogGpupnik, it's not that hard for me to make xmms2 functionality with API as to make gui =)14:24
pupniktimeless_w7ip: the 'locate' thing is just a convenience for linux folks14:24
pupnik'where'd that file go' is much nicer with locate14:25
timeless_w7ipjonwil: typically dualsim is managed by using SIMTK or whatever that monstrocity is called14:25
ZogGpupnik, but true linux guys use find actually14:25
pupnikZogG: i don't think so - it's slow14:26
ZogGyou are slow =)14:26
timeless_w7ipnot slow, just not paying attn14:26
ZogGbut it's like comparing bike and car14:26
timeless_w7ipfind is a disaster on any file system w/ lots of data14:26
timeless_w7ipit does not scale well14:26
timeless_w7ipthere's a reason everyone since BeOS has been trying to move toward a database for their file system14:27
timeless_w7ipms tried w/ Cairo14:27
pupniktimeless_w7ip: updatedb can run when i'm sleeping.  that's a good system even for a portable14:27
timeless_w7ippupnik: users tend to be rather annoying14:28
timeless_w7ipthere was a cool /. comment about  people and military use wrt. iraq/afghanistan/libya14:28
timeless_w7ip> The simple fact is that the real world is a hellishly difficult place and western governments are dealing with an electorate incapable of keeping a coherent train of thought in a single sentence.14:30
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timeless_w7ipa translation for people only familiar w/ computers14:30
timeless_w7ipusers demand "excellent battery life" and "immediate responsiveness" and "instant access" and14:31
timeless_w7ip"perfect search" and14:31
timeless_w7ipusers want everything!14:31
pupnikand engineers decide what makes users happiest based on their uninformed feedback14:31
timeless_w7ipcase in point. we were using a PSn (dunno if it was 2 or 3, i'm a user, i don't care)14:31
timeless_w7ipwhile we watched a movie, we arranged for the media server we were using to download an additional movie14:32
timeless_w7ipwe wanted to be able to immediately select the new movie from the list as soon as we finished watching the current movie14:32
timeless_w7ipwe were acting like typical users14:32
timeless_w7iphaving to reboot or wait for the system to do a daily media update would *not* have made us happy14:32
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timeless_w7ipcan you imagine telling your sister "no, you can't watch the movie you just bought today, wait until tomorrow"?14:33
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timeless_w7ipsurely some of you have siblings?14:33
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* kerio has two much older ones14:33
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* RST38h cannot imagine that: he isnot buying any movies14:38
jonwilhmmm, the dialer app supports video calls (skype video calls I assume, possibly SIP also)14:39
timeless_w7iprst: substitute steal for buy if you must14:39
timeless_w7ipjonwil: and google talk14:39
timeless_w7ipamong others14:39
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RST38hNo, you are not getting it: I am not even stealing any movies14:40
timeless_w7ipyou don't watch movies? i get it14:40
timeless_w7ipyou aren't my target audience14:40
RST38hSee? Now you get it.14:41
timeless_w7ipnor were you the official target of this feature14:41
RST38hAlso, the concept of "stealing" originally included the notion of the victim losing the stolen good.14:41
timeless_w7ipsince you're clearly a hacker, just disable the stupid feature and stop whining14:41
timeless_w7ipoh fuck off14:41
RST38hAnd losing "potential revenue" probably wouldn't count.14:41
timeless_w7iplanguage is used to describe concepts14:42
RST38htimeless <-- fallomorphs easily14:42
timeless_w7ipyou clearly understood the concept based on your response14:42
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timeless_w7ipwhich means the language was sufficient and effective14:42
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zhashais this the place to get some help with Hildon?14:45
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timeless_w7ipzhasha: you can ask here, there's probably also a -dev somewhere14:47
timeless_w7ipbut some people are moving to Qt, so the available set of devs is dwindling14:47
zhashathere's a #maemo-dev but that kinda says development of Maemo, not for Maemo14:47
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zhashain any case, I just want to know how to make what I believe is called a sub-view. as in, I want to have a list to select from, and when you do select something, it moves to the next screen as in the music player, and displays a back button in the upper right hand corner14:48
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alteregoWell, he was patient :D14:56
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alteregoI guess some people just don't like waiting14:57
timeless_w7ipalterego: tell that to rst! :)14:57
alteregoIt is quiet strange that people think we're all here staring at the window waiting for someone to come in and ask a question ;)14:58
infobotalterego meant: It is quite strange that people think we're all here staring at the window waiting for someone to come in and ask a question ;)14:58
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* RST38h downloads a 300kB book in ~3 seconds, starts reading happily14:58
kerioRST38h: that's almost 150kB/s!14:58
* alterego is working on his Qml based dialer14:58
* kerio is playing transformice14:59
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RST38hWell, establishing connection probably eats most of those 3 sec14:59
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RST38halterego: You too??? jonwil here is working on one15:00
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alteregoRST38h: mine is for MeeGo, I don't know what he's doing :D15:00
alteregoAnd no doubt he wont be using QML15:00
timeless_w7ipkerio: what kind of math are you using?15:01
trxdoes anyone know if there is ANY documentation about symbol dialog (Blue arrow + Ctrl) ?15:04
RST38halterego: I think he is rewriting the maemo one15:04
jonwilI am not working on a dialer,15:04
jonwilI am simply reverse engineering the maemo dialer15:04
alteregojonwil: :) didn't think you were15:04
jonwilto find out anything special it does15:04
RST38halterego: Is there hope the stuff you are doing for Meego will be portable for other OSes?15:04
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trxor maybe if its oss, where sould i look?15:04
alteregoRST38h: yes, provided it uses ofono ...15:04
RST38halterego: I.e. no way to plug anything esle?15:05
alteregoRST38h: that and the application engine can be adapted. I might port it to maemo for a laugh15:05
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alteregoAt the moment I've just cloned the current meego reference dialer UX in QML15:05
* RST38h explodes15:06
alteregoYes, I've not put in the theme engine support yet :P15:06
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alteregoAnd that UX is subject to radically change.15:07
alteregoI'm more prototyping the interface between Qt and the Qml UI code.15:07
timeless_w7iptrx: what about it?15:07
keriotimeless_w7ip: why, am i wrong?15:07
timeless_w7ipand no, it isn't open15:07
alteregoSo eventually, anyone can hack together a QML UX for the dialer and use my Qt application engine code to power it.15:08
alteregoImagine what themers could do to a device then ;)15:08
timeless_w7ipkerio: why isn't 300/3 = 100?15:08
trxtimeless_w7ip i need to know how does it send characters to focused widget15:08
kerioi said it's almost 15015:08
timeless_w7ipit's almost a million too...15:08
keriono, it's way less than a million15:08
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jonwilwhich package provides the symbol dialog?15:09
trxtimeless_w7ip do i need to set some special flags or something.. because my custom widget doesnt recieve any keyboard events..15:09
timeless_w7iptrx: um, xtrace is your friend15:09
timeless_w7ipfrom memory it does take some magic15:09
timeless_w7ipthe mozilla port ran into pain when dealing w/ it15:10
timeless_w7ipyou could look to see how we handled it15:10
trxdoesnt matter, gives me a start15:10
jonwilSpecifically want I am reverse engineering is anything the maemo dialer does that isnt UI15:10
trxbecause there is nothing about it..15:10
timeless_w7ipjonwil: it supports <.> ;-)15:11
timeless_w7ipthe ui someone linked to only offered +15:11
timeless_w7ipit also somewhat supports <p> and <q> iirc15:11
timeless_w7ipjonwil: it's closed, so i'm not sure how the package helps15:12
timeless_w7ipit'd be an inputmethod something15:12
timeless_w7ipand yes, it's more or less stupid15:13
timeless_w7ipsuch is life15:13
jonwilI doubt the dialer is doing anything special in the UI that would be essential for a custom dialer clone15:13
timeless_w7ipwell all of the #<...> stuff is magical15:13
timeless_w7ipe.g. the sequence to get the system version15:13
timeless_w7ipwhile you're adding features, please let me <mute> before a call is established15:14
timeless_w7ipif i want to mute, and the call isn't ready, your'e a program, and you can remember that i want to mute, and when the call is ready, you can mute15:14
timeless_w7ipand then i, a user, will be happy15:14
alteregojonwil: the dialer is in charge of showing incoming call as well, so it's always running afair15:15
timeless_w7ipbasically the idiots designing the ui were told "we can't mute until X" so the ui people said to the app author "don't let the mute button work until we're told it will work"15:15
alteregoAnd there are special things, like handling ussd codes.15:15
alteregoEmergency calls15:15
alteregoThere is actually a whole raft of things that a good dialer has to do. Maybe look at the current meego dialer reference app to get an idea.15:16
timeless_w7ipyou need to deal w/ putting a call on hold15:16
timeless_w7ipand trying to conference a call15:16
alteregoAs the maemo dialer app will be quite similar in functions.15:16
timeless_w7ipyou also to some extent are responsible for dealing w/ audio policy15:16
timeless_w7ipe.g. screwing up the camera when you're on a call15:16
timeless_w7ipi'd recommend not screwing up the camera, but that might not be possible15:16
timeless_w7ipideally i should be able to take a picture while i'm using the phone15:16
timeless_w7ipbut again, see ui idiots15:16
timeless_w7ip(and local regulations)15:17
timeless_w7ipthe law iirc is in a country to which the n900 did not originally sell15:17
jonwilso write a camera-ui replacement :P15:18
timeless_w7ipbut because nokia, being a big corporation, doesn't want to deal w/ inconsistencies or future lawsuits etc. the restriction was global15:18
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timeless_w7ipwell, basically you should be aware that the app you're replacing deals w/ the audio-policy stuff15:18
timeless_w7ipthe simplest path is to do the same audio policy requests that it did15:18
timeless_w7ipbut there are other paths (after you've implemented the simple path)15:19
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jonwilwell I am not actually going to be writing code15:19
jonwiljust some documentation of what its doing15:19
pupnikfunny irony, that 'power kernel' :D15:19
timeless_w7ipjonwil: sure, then this goes to the doc15:20
jonwiland only the bits that look specific to the dialer or special or wierd or funky. For example, I dont see any reason to document what the phone dialer is doing with rtcom-eventlogger15:20
jonwilmaybe just which functions its calling15:21
timeless_w7ipsomeone needs to know who is responsible for showing incoming calls15:23
timeless_w7ipand showing missed calls in the switcher15:23
timeless_w7ipand whether those missed calls are still visible after the battery is exhausted15:24
timeless_w7ip(please don't assume i know the answer to these questions, i'm lazy)15:24
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timeless_w7ipoh, and the speakerphone button is very important15:25
jonwilspeakerphone and other things are dbus calls IIRC15:25
timeless_w7ipas is the ability to turn on/off the video camera while in a video supporting call15:25
* timeless_w7ip shrugs15:26
timeless_w7ipthe dialer still has to expose it15:26
timeless_w7ipbonus points for spelling out the names of the functions to save the dialer author further research15:27
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jonwilin the case of the speakerphone, I will document the details of the dbus call it makes :)15:30
jonwilhow the guy writing the dialer clone exposes the feature is up to them15:33
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trxhm, timeless_w7ip now im lost, how would you suggest i setup xtrace?15:39
trx(considering that there is no package for maemo)15:39
timeless_w7iptrx: run it on another computer15:40
timeless_w7ipyou basically want to run an app w/ DISPLAY:3 which is xtrace15:40
timeless_w7ipand have xtrace send its data back to DISPLAY:015:40
timeless_w7iptrx: note that maemo generally works from in a scratchbox where DISPLAY=:215:41
trxok, ty15:41
timeless_w7ipso it's just a matter of being fancy with things15:41
trxim kinda new to the whole X stuff15:42
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timeless_w7ipyou might end up wanting to have the entire xsession running to the xtrace (probably will actually)15:42
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trxk, i'll give it a try..15:43
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timeless_w7ipfwiw, i'd suggest you start w/ the simple stuff:15:46
timeless_w7ip1. get xtrace15:46
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timeless_w7ip2. run it15:46
timeless_w7ip3. use it on xeyes15:46
Turtle^^hey all \o/15:46
Turtle^^whats the password for su in scratchbox?15:47
* SpeedEvil looks up turtle soup recipies.15:47
Turtle^^there is a trutle soup also :o15:48
timeless_w7ipturtle: err15:49
infobotrumour has it, fakeroot is at
timeless_w7ipturtle: scratchbox is not a vm15:49
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timeless_w7ipsu would still be the real computer's su, but you really would not want to do that15:49
Turtle^^i am using the downloaded vm15:50
Turtle^^want to do an apt-get15:50
Turtle^^dont have the permissions15:50
Turtle^^what to do?15:50
timeless_w7ipgoogle fakeroot maemo15:50
* Turtle^^ moves slowly to win the race15:50
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RST38hThe NY Times reports that there are indications that a sea change is taking place in consumer behavior as a result of the great recession: Americans are buying less tech stuff and making it last longer16:13
RST38hOMG back to durable goods?16:13
RST38hWhat will Chinese do???16:13
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derfPrint more money, of course.16:14
RST38hAre their printing US money or their own?16:14
derfDoes it make a difference?16:14
APTXthey can ask for their money back from the us16:14
derfI don't think they can.16:15
RST38hDunno, probably does to Wall Street16:15
derfThey already have all our money.16:15
RST38hPatti Hauseman stuck with her five-year-old Apple computer until it started making odd whirring noises and occasionally malfunctioning!16:15
RST38hAh, the horror! The suffering!16:15
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derfStuck with a Mac for five years does sound pretty horrifying.16:17
psycho_oreosnot if you're a loyal mac fan16:18
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derfBeing a loyal Mac fan sounds pretty horrifying, too.16:18
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pupnikRST38h: question - do you mind if i make arrowkeys in Falcons Eye go 'diagonal' by default and 'straight' with CTRL-Arrow?16:26
pupnikso for e.g. 'left' arrow would go 'up-left'16:26
pupnikright now the game can't be navigated with arrow keys - but you can use the roguelike directions16:27
pupnikwhich are also pretty bad since the n900 keybd is shifted16:27
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dschoepetimeless_w7ip: hmm, removing all widgets and battery monitoring daemons seems to have had no effect. I've noticed however that hildon-desktop continuously causes about 8% cpu load. Is that normal?16:40
alteregodschoepe: do you have many widgets?16:41
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dschoepealterego: I removed all of them to see whether one of them was causing my unusually short battery life16:42
alteregoAh, m'kay16:42
dschoepeI'll check if rebooting helps16:42
lcukn901dsh check also the plugins to the top bar, the update flasher thing and other misc16:43
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dschoepelcukn901: I only have a brightness-applet and the 3g/2g-switcher16:44
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Juozapashi how to set default email client (maemo 5, n900) to use unicode ?16:54
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* timeless_w7ip wonders what modest uses17:01
timeless_w7ipjuozapas: what's it sending instead?17:02
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Juozapas? symbols17:05
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Juozapastimeless_w7ip: any ideas ?17:06
timeless_w7ipuse gmail17:06
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lcukn901juozapas?  really modest does not support unicode?17:07
Juozapastimeless_w7ip: i'm using gmail17:07
Juozapasit was ok before, i think maybe something changed after update17:08
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timeless_w7ipand you're really talking about sending?17:10
Juozapasno, about received mails17:11
timeless_w7ipyou're probably missing a font17:11
povbotBug 7402: Modest not handling single apostrophe (#146)17:11
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MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, why does microB enable portrait UI even if the desktop isn't rotated17:24
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timeless_w7ipmohammad: eh?17:26
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timeless_w7ipportrait ui in microb is controlled by a user pref in options/settings whatever you call that stuff17:26
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MohammadAGtimeless_office, yes, but it fails with orientation lock17:27
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MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, basically, it listens to mce instead of hildon-desktop17:27
* timeless_w7ip wonders wtf orientation lock is17:28
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timeless_w7ipif you're talking about an imaginary feature which was introduced long after support was added in microb17:28
timeless_w7ipwhich i suspect you are17:28
MohammadAGsomething i implemented17:28
timeless_w7ipthen i hope the answer is obvious17:28
timeless_w7ipoh wait17:28
MohammadAGit locks orientation to landscape17:28
timeless_w7ipyou're asking why a shipped product didn't predict a future mutation?17:28
timeless_w7ipare you *nuts*?17:28
MohammadAGno, all@stock apps do it properly17:29
timeless_w7ipwe just aren't that good at reading tea leaves17:29
MohammadAGfucking hildon-input-method17:29
timeless_w7ipHIM supports this? :)17:29
timeless_w7ip(him is a stock app!)17:29
MohammadAGhim isn't a UI17:29
MohammadAGbut the N900's failing atm, PVR getting stuck so it makes typos17:30
timeless_w7ipmohammad: we were basically the first app after image viewer + phone to support portrait mode17:31
timeless_w7ipwe did it because we needed it17:31
timeless_w7ipwe were not given particularly useful or helpful guidance17:31
timeless_w7ipnor were we given useful requirements beyond 'support portrait mode'17:31
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Azogis there some software to update the tiles cache (e. g. of openstreetmap tiles)?17:33
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timeless_w7ipsp3000: ping17:35
* timeless_w7ip needs help17:35
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sp3000timeless_w7ip: plongg17:35
* timeless_w7ip kicks comic chat for being painful17:37
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* timeless_w7ip kicks comic chat17:38
lcukn901timeless, recent build of comic chat or dug out from archive?17:38
timeless_w7iparchives :*17:39
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pupnikAzog: did you find any info for your question yet?17:40
Azogpupnik: no17:40
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pupniki'll snoop around a bit Azog ... btw enabling wlan increased idle current from 2mA to 16mA17:42
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pupniki wonder if there's a way to get that wlan power down even more to 'demand-only' communications17:42
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MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, one more question, is it possible to get updates for closed source parts?17:43
MohammadAGfor the CSSU17:43
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VenemoMohammadAG: I think that those bugfixes that are done but haven't made it into the official SSU could be included17:57
MohammadAGVenemo, I was thinking of stuff for microB, contacts etc17:57
GAN900Somebody needs to add windows to FBReader.17:57
MohammadAGI mean, adding a portrait flag to Contacts is piss easy17:57
MohammadAGit just needs someone to do it, compile the binary and ship it to us17:58
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mintuxmy n900 connect to wireless automatically while I don't press anything ? why?17:58
VenemoMohammadAG: also, there are bugfixes for MicroB that are documented to be fixed a year ago, but haven't made it into any PR yet17:58
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timeless_w7ipvenemo: because management killed the release vehicles18:01
Venemotimeless_w7ip: yes, you told me that already :)18:01
Venemotimeless_w7ip: we agreed on the fact that your management is nuts :P18:01
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: ask your official contacct18:01
timeless_w7ipthere's no way in hell that i can give them to you18:01
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timeless_w7ipi'd probably be fired for theft18:02
_0x47Hi, would you suggest moving to MeeGo with my N900? Is Maemo dead yet?18:02
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timeless_w7ipno. no.18:02
infobothmm... cssu is
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timeless_w7ip_0x47: does your n900 still work?18:02
Venemotimeless_w7ip: I think MohammadAG is looking for an official way to do this, and not asking you to steal code18:02
timeless_w7ipis it working any less today than it was 5 months ago?18:02
timeless_w7ipvenemo: *shrug*. we have our code integrated the same way everyone else does18:03
_0x47timeless_w7ip: sure, but it really sucks to have no recent packages and I don't see any progress in getting newer packages (core)18:03
timeless_w7ipwhich means that whomever his contact is has the same access to it as everything else (except flash)18:03
timeless_w7ip_0x47: see infobot's url18:03
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DocScrutinizerdschoepe: read regarding 8% HD CPU hog18:05
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dschoepeDocScrutinizer: thanks18:07
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_0x47timeless_w7ip: i see, but how would CSSU update closed source binaries from nokia (e.g. drivers)? reverse engineering?18:09
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DocScrutinizerdschoepe: are you using catorize or apmefo?18:10
dschoepecategorize, yes18:11
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DocScrutinizeriirc the cpu hog got triggered by bouncing up and down by 0 pixels constantly any window with kinetic scrolling that's actually shorter than screen height18:11
DocScrutinizerparticularly applauncher when there's been too less icons to make the window scrollable18:12
lcukn901hmmm microb browser has lost on one tab the 'reload' option on the menu.  all other pages have it.18:13
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Venemolcukn901: Ctrl+R18:13
lcukn901thanks, but the missing menu is bit odd18:14
_0x47timeless_w7ip: anyhow, thanks for pointing me there!18:14
lcukn901it will probably come back when i reopen tab18:14
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lcukn901lol venemo, it came back after doing that manual ctrl R refresh, double thanks18:15
MohammadAG<timeless_w7ip> mohammadag: ask your official contacct18:17
MohammadAGwho's my official contact?18:17
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dashavooHmm... is there a German online who wouldn't mind answering me a question nothing to do with maemo?18:30
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dschoepedashavoo: sure, go ahead18:33
dashavoothanks dschoepe, I'll pm you so as not to spam the channel18:34
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pupnikanybody know a mp3 player that does EQ before transforming from frequency to time-domain?18:39
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: that'd be sooooo nice18:46
Azogpupnik: did you find anything for the tiles cache?18:46
RST38hTo boost the number of Windows Phone 7 apps, Microsoft has relaxed a strict rule and will let employees moonlight and keep the resulting intellectual property and 70% of the revenue, as long as that second job is writing apps for WP7-based devices.18:46
* DocScrutinizer curses this impinching MAFW concept18:47
alteregomafw is a good idea imo18:47
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alteregoI think most of our services should be based around dbus services.18:47
pupnikDocScrutinizer: i think winamp used to do that :D18:47
RST38hdbus has performance problems18:47
pupnik   looking at this18:47
alteregoAllows for a much more unified and integrated UX18:48
alteregoRST38h: sure, but those things can be addressed.18:48
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RST38hyou definitely WANT some way of communication between front end and back end, but dbus adds a shitload of overhead18:48
RST38halterego:people have been banging on dbus for years18:48
DocScrutinizeralterego: send audio via dbus? are you nuts?18:48
alteregoDocScrutinizer: no, not send audio via dbus :P18:49
RST38hDoc: Hasn't Arts done that?18:49
pupnikDocScrutinizer: what low frequencies would you throw away for n900?  I'm guessing anything below 200hz at least18:49
DocScrutinizerRST38h: NFC, Arts hasn't had >100 cpu-seconds on all my machines added up18:49
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pupnikthere's a table of bands, but the allocation of those seems to be dynamic18:50
DocScrutinizerpupnik: probably 15018:50
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: *I* sometimes wish devels wouldn't think client/server and frontend/backend for each cmdline echo binary18:52
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dschoepeCan I map control characters such as Escape or Tab to e.g. Fn+y? My naive attempt at just putting them there in rx-51 didn't work; not Fn+y only produces a y.18:55
dschoepe*now Fn+y..18:55
DocScrutinizerpupnik: you could run a freq sweep via ALSA (w/o XPROT) and see what freq range the N900 speakers actually support, then for sure cut out any freq bands that wouldn't result in any noticeable output anyway18:55
pupniki'll download a sample sindewave from somewhere18:56
VenemoDocScrutinizer: mafw doesn't send audio over dbus18:56
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I never suggested that18:56
DocScrutinizermafw is just using a standard mp3 decoder that has none of the easy-to-implement nice-to-have features like EQ18:57
DocScrutinizerseamless playback of consecutive files...18:58
DocScrutinizerpitch/tempo adjust18:58
DocScrutinizeraka seamless FFW/REW18:58
DocScrutinizerdynamic compression/expansion18:59
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DocScrutinizerwhatnot else18:59
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DocScrutinizerall much easier to implement in frequency domain rather than time domain19:00
DocScrutinizerfor N900 MAFW/PA audio chain I'd not be surprised to learn we got 3 or 4 or more FFT and back19:01
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pupnikfreq sweep 300hz to 5 hz, 5 seconds   >>   sox -r 22050 -n output.wav synth 5 sine 300-519:02
VenemoDocScrutinizer: in this case, all we would have to do is remove the mp3 gstreamer plugin and install a sane one19:02
DocScrutinizerVenemo: heh, yeah. One that comes with proper UIs for the new features.... friggin nonsense19:03
DocScrutinizerstill that wouldn't help for seamless FFW/REW and gapless playback19:04
Venemowhy not?19:04
DocScrutinizerbecause all API is missing for that, as well as GUI support from player, in case of seamless FFW19:05
DocScrutinizereven gapless playback isn't supported by player afaik19:05
DocScrutinizeras next pipe gets set up no earlier than last song ended19:06
pupnikor do sox -r 22050 -n output.wav synth 30 sine 180-2019:06
pupnikand see at how many seconds the audio is not audible19:06
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DocScrutinizerI suggest using a semi-decent mic and HDD-recording, then check amplitude and freq in e.g audacity19:07
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: gapless playback is not a question of media player GUI19:08
DocScrutinizerdamn, in the 80s even 30$ radios came with a product sheet claiming 250-16000Hz. N900 doesn't need such tech specs for customer19:09
DocScrutinizerVenemo: well, maybe it isn't19:09
VenemoDocScrutinizer: GUI just gives a playlist to MAFW to play, and MAFW plays it. so lack of gapless is a fault of MAFW19:09
DocScrutinizerprobably you have to send the list for next 2 hours playback to MAFW and hope you get notice when next song starts19:10
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DocScrutinizergreat, so how do you implement cross-fade?19:10
Venemosuch stuff needs to be implemented in MAFW19:11
DocScrutinizersorry, I'm rather consolidated in my notion MAFW is a brainfucked concept19:12
MohammadAGyou just need to change gstreamer pipes in mafw19:12
MohammadAGmafw's source that is19:12
VenemoDocScrutinizer: :)19:13
VenemoDocScrutinizer: actually, is there any concept in Maemo that you don't find brainfucked? :P19:13
DocScrutinizerintroducing all sorts of layering issues and limitations for no obvious purpose or benefit19:14
DocScrutinizerVenemo: sure, a whole lot19:14
MohammadAGthe fact that mafw's open source means we can have crossfade in stock player19:14
MohammadAGactually, the player's just a GUI that does nothing19:14
DocScrutinizerthat's the problem19:15
pupnikok yes, at about 150hz there is no usable music output19:16
DocScrutinizerheh, gimme 519:19
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MohammadAGas retarded as Nokia's decision to use the 256MB flash for the OS is, it's better than the iPhone's approach19:22
JaffaMohammadAG: What does the iPhone do?19:23
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pupnikactually reversing the sweep from low-to-high is a better test perhaps19:24
pupniki only start to notice the sound around 160hz19:24
pupnikand i can't increase volume above 1/2 or else the speaker rattles19:25
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MohammadAGJaffa, wipes the 32GBs when you restore19:26
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MohammadAGa "full" backup doesn't include songs19:26
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: so depending on whether you use ALSA or PA-playing-ALSA or PA-native you get XPROT or mere HW freq plot19:29
pupnikactually i'd say it's about 200 hz19:29
pupnikthere's just no usable output below it19:30
DocScrutinizerok, no useable output sounds about right19:30
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DocScrutinizerstill you want to place the -6/-12dBm point (I'd suggest to use a 12dB/octave filter) to 150Hz, not to 200Hz ;-)19:32
DocScrutinizernota bene this still would start reducing volume at freq >>150Hz19:35
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thomasjfoxdoes anyone know how I can detect the current build target when building in's builder?19:39
pupnikno, no traditional filter... discard freqs...19:39
pupniksimply drop anything below 200hz19:39
thomasjfox"if sb-conf current |grep ARMEL" doesn't seem to work19:39
DocScrutinizerpupnik: it's physically impossible to "discard frequencies"19:40
* pupnik winks at DocScrutinizer who has to think again about how mp3 works19:41
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DocScrutinizercutting out a single band in freq domain might sound awful I'm afraid19:42
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pupnikhow does mp3 store audio information?19:42
pupnik(and ogg)19:42
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DocScrutinizerbasically via additive synthesis19:43
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DocScrutinizerand a tone with a slight vibrato close to your cutoff freq with infinite sharpness will sound stuttering and awful19:44
mintuxhow can I see my version of maemo from terminal ?19:44
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DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# osso-product-info -q OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION19:47
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DocScrutinizeralso `echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION` as all those are envs as well19:48
lcukn902mintux, i have this in one of my makefiles which seems to work ok at least for most builds   UNAMEISARM := $(shell uname -m | grep arm)19:48
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pupnik20.2010.36-2  here19:49
pupnikwhy you have an older one DocScrutinizer ?19:49
DocScrutinizeryeah, PR1.2 here19:49
pupnik1.3 not to your liking?19:49
DocScrutinizernot really19:49
pupnikwhat should i look-for that sucks?19:50
DocScrutinizerdowngrade path, broken restore when trying to restore for PR1.219:51
DocScrutinizerNokia once again managed to fsckup the repos (ok, admittedly only for testing and devel, but nevertheless - the user here that has NO pkg from testing/devel installed please holler)19:52
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DocScrutinizerso yeah, I can restore to PR1.2 - but STOCK Pr1.2, and that's just an insult19:53
mintuxif is install ussd-common can I dial some special code from my phone?19:53
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DocScrutinizererr wut?19:54
DocScrutinizeruse starhash enabler19:54
DocScrutinizerit's even in extras :-D19:54
mintuxwhen I want to check my credit with this code *140*1# it said incorrect number19:54
DocScrutinizeruse starhash enabler19:54
lcukn902jaffa, the computer detection stuff using 2d barcodes, I have this photo taken from BCN 2009 trip:
DocScrutinizerthnaks for using *# starhash-enabler :-D19:56
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mintuxDocScrutinizer: it said again incorrect number . my number is *140*1#19:58
DocScrutinizeryou installed *# ?19:58
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mintuxDocScrutinizer : yeap sudo apt-get install starhash-enabler19:58
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DocScrutinizerumm, please use HAM19:58
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mintuxalso I installed ussd-common and ussd-widget19:59
mintuxdoes it need to reboot?19:59
DocScrutinizeryou don't need those19:59
mintuxwhat is HAM?19:59
DocScrutinizerthe app manager19:59
infobotsomebody said ham was oink oink.  Hildon Application Manager.  Hazardous Application Manager.  Hildon application Manager  Ham is also lovely with pickle.19:59
mintuxwhat difference ?20:00
DocScrutinizer*# isn't tested with apt-get20:00
DocScrutinizerand *# is a rather special 'program'20:00
DocScrutinizerit has zero executable binary20:01
DocScrutinizerI simply dunno what apt-get will do20:01
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DocScrutinizeresp when run without run-satndalone.sh20:02
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DocScrutinizerI bet it will fail, so please use HAM20:02
mintuxshould I have remove it before?20:03
DocScrutinizerdon't forget to clean aka uninstall it via apt-get previously20:03
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DocScrutinizer(topic dialer) you're aware it's absolutely mandatory to quit any call when dialer process quits, for whatever reason, segfault or kill -9 or "pressing the close button" or OOM20:10
DocScrutinizer^^^ unrelated to mintux conv.20:10
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DocScrutinizeractually dialer should even get watched by dsme like some other important processes (bme for example), and process restarted if watchdog expires. Rationale: you MUST avoid to keep calls established on dialer segfault/freeze that cost maybe 9$/min. Even worse keep them established without user even noticing that20:13
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DocScrutinizerand telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basically if ISI doesn't have a call to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware20:15
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infobotDocScrutinizer meant: and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basimethody if ISI doesn't have a call to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware20:15
DocScrutinizers/ call/ method/20:16
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: and telepathy/whatever has to take care about freezes in a similar way, basically if ISI doesn't have a method to tickle a WD in cmt then it's flawed as is cmt-firmware20:16
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: mpg123 can do it!  "free" eq!
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mintuxDocScrutinizer: I installed from HAM not different20:22
mintuxdoesn't worrk20:23
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DocScrutinizerthat's weird20:23
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DocScrutinizerplease `cat /home/user/.osso/call-ui.ini`20:25
DocScrutinizercheck for "20:26
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DocScrutinizermintux: while installing via HAM, you've seen a yellow notifier saying "restarting rtcom-call-ui dialer now" (or words to the effect) ?20:28
mintuxDocScrutinizer: no20:28
mintuxDocScrutinizer: just installed application20:29
DocScrutinizerI guess you messed sth up by installing via apt20:29
mintuxDocScrutinizer:I removed before install from HAM20:29
lcukn902docscrutinizer?@really installation of app requires interaction?20:29
DocScrutinizerkillall -9 rtcom-call-ui20:30
DocScrutinizerlcukn902: nope20:30
DocScrutinizerjust notifier20:30
DocScrutinizerso it requires hildon access20:30
DocScrutinizerwhich might fail for apt-get running as root20:31
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mintuxDocScrutinizer: done . then ?20:32
DocScrutinizerthough it sounds a silly explanation to me, as HAM as well runs apt-get20:32
hawaii_Has anybody built bluez 4.89?20:32
mintuxDocScrutinizer: what should happen after killall -9 rtcom-call-ui20:32
DocScrutinizerand recheck if cat /home/user/.osso/call-ui.ini is unchanged20:32
DocScrutinizernothing really20:33
DocScrutinizernothing visible20:33
mintuxafter that what should I do?20:33
DocScrutinizerdialer process gets retarted and reads in the config file with SSC=120:33
mintuxso open dial and enter number?20:33
mintuxreboot my phone ?20:34
DocScrutinizershouldn't be needed20:34
DocScrutinizerstart with trying *#61#20:34
mintux:'( incorrect number20:34
thomasjfoxanswering my own question: "sb-conf show -A |grep -q -i arm" detects if the current build target is ARM20:35
mintuxshould I remove ussd-common ?20:35
DocScrutinizeryes, I told you so20:35
DocScrutinizermintux: ^^^20:36
mintuxsudo apt-get remove ussd-common ussd-widget starhash-enabler20:37
mintuxthen install starhash-enabler from HAM20:37
DocScrutinizermintux: testing it here, it works to the extent of reply "request not processed". My carrier supports same with *104*1# which works like a charm20:37
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DocScrutinizerI hope they haven't fsckd it up in PR1.320:38
mintuxDocScrutinizer: I tried your number *#61# and got error20:38
mintuxDocScrutinizer: PR1.3 ?20:38
MohammadAGafaik it's on by default in 1.320:38
MohammadAGI might be wrong20:38
DocScrutinizerit's fsckdup by default it seems20:39
mintuxDocScrutinizer: I never update my phone since I bought it20:39
RST38hbad, bad idea20:39
mintuxI have lots of setting and information and I afraid to do that . and I don't have enough time to do that20:40
DocScrutinizermintux: this isn't tested for <Pr1.2, might work on Pr1.1 but probably not for older versions of maemo fremantle20:40
DocScrutinizermintux: update!20:41
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mintuxit's so bad . I can't update my phone soon . because I do a lot of settings on it such as link many directory to home folder20:42
mintuxand a lot of softwares20:42
RST38hbackup then update20:42
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DocScrutinizermintux: what's result of ` osso-product-info -q OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION` ?20:42
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Strunzgood evening, i have a question to n90020:43
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Strunzwhen i start navit on xterm i get the message: "invalid type gpsd", what does this mean?20:44
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DocScrutinizermintux: if you would have updated incrementally from 1.0->1.0.1->1.1->1.2 you wouldn't have had any problems whatsoever about losing your config. Alas now I guess a FULL reflash is your only chance. So backup with backup app, then backup /home/user, and MyDocs, via USB mass storage, then do a full reflash as in20:45
bakarati'm having some trouble with my n900 where suddenly it is unable to receive calls and texts. i have no way of knowing that this stopped functioning until someone tells me they can't reach me....20:46
bakaratvery annoying20:46
bakaratany idea what could be causing it?20:46
bakarat(a reboot fixes it)20:46
DocScrutinizeryay, you're like the third report like that, in a few days20:47
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mintuxit's always problem I have with linux . it's very hard to upgrade when new version released :P20:48
DocScrutinizerbakarat: might be a hw problem. Reflash to a clean state, DO NOT restore any apps, and test if problem persists. If yes -> repair hw. If no, then come back and we might find the sw causing the error20:49
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Strunzhas anyone a answer for my question?20:51
Strunzsorry for my bad english :-(20:51
DocScrutinizerStrunz: this probably means N900 has no gpsd of the kind navit needs20:52
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StrunzDocScrutinizer, what must i do to solve this problem?20:54
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DocScrutinizersorry no idea. If I'd guess I'd say you imported and built navit source from somewhere, and it's not adapted to meet maemo system20:56
DocScrutinizerbasically afaik there's no gpsd on maemo520:56
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vi__what what?21:40
vi__in the butt?21:40
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puchatyi said what what21:41
puchatyin the butt21:41
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puchatyanyone know more about android 2.3.3 compatibility?21:50
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puchatyinfo from e-yes : #android 2.3.3 and Nokia #n900 are compatible:)21:51
puchatyi can see on this movie sms notyfication21:51
puchatyor something like that..21:51
hawaii_Ask e-yes.21:51
tarantism_Hi, does anyone know about using qdbus with interfaces with hyphens? eg
puchatyi think he doesnt like responsing about nitdroid status21:52
puchatybut maybe have some logs about 2.3.3 from irc21:53
hawaii_Because he gets pestered for support.21:53
puchatythats why i dont want to ask him :)21:54
puchatynevermind ;-)21:54
MohammadAGtarantism_, QDBus takes QStrings/QVariants, hyphens shouldn't matter in a string21:54
tarantism_MohammadAG: I get an Invalid interface class:
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tarantism_Apparently hyphens are invalid in an interface21:55
tarantism_oh, I see ... maybe21:56
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tarantism_MohammadAG: Thanks, I'll look over that code.21:57
tarantism_That looks perfect.21:58
tarantism_Not always easy to find this stuff!!!21:58
MohammadAGyw :)22:00
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alterego Oh no, Mohammedia Player has competition!23:26
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divanI used SomePlayer for some time. It eats to much CPU, so I dropped it. Maybe now it's better, dunno.23:28
Sc0rpiusand it looks good23:28
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JaffaSounds like, from the description, that it doesn't use MAFW & Tracker?23:31
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alteregoIt uses Phonon23:34
* alterego chuckles23:34
alteregoAnd do we trust software written by Russians?23:34
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divanalterego, is this new kind of racism? )23:35
alteregoConsidering the security model that Maemo has (none)23:35
alteregoAnd the fact that Russia is the largest entity when it comes to cyber fraud etc.23:35
alteregoI think it's probably a valid point :P23:35
divanI'm from Ukraine, but we're pretty close to Russia and I speak russian usually.23:35
alteregoI'm not being nasty about Russians in general, but Russian programmers usually work for the mob, as they get paid a lot more :)23:36
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alteregoAll I'm suggesting is, someone audit his code ;)23:36
* alterego chuckles23:37
divanHeh ) I have no objection)23:38
lcukn902alterego, the most downloaded and adored maemo app (omweather) has a heavy Russian influence23:39
alteregoOh really? Interesting :)23:39
alteregoYou see? They're very clever ...23:40
lcukn902only in so far as your views of russian developers23:40
alteregoThey write popular apps with trojans :P23:40
lcukn902vlad and tanya and wazd have done a great deal for our devices23:40
alteregoI know, I know23:40
alteregoI'm just bored.23:40
lcukn902as well as many other devs up and down the oss spectrum23:40
divanThough, I must admit that Russia(and most ex-Soviet countrires) do not have solid Computer Science education in high schools. Many programmers are selfmade.23:41
lcukn902well please stop insuting entire nations23:41
* SpeedEvil puts on 'Blame Canada'.23:41
alteregoWell, I wasn't insulting an entire nation, just an entire nations programming population23:42
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alteregoMaybe their FOSS software is so good because they dedicate more time because they get paid millions for their "real" work ...23:42
* SpeedEvil will never forget.23:43
* SpeedEvil forgets what he will never forget, but I will never forget that I was to never forget something.23:44
alteregodivan: are you coding lisp again?23:44
lcukn902alterego he is just finishing something he started months ago23:44
divanalterego, not funny )23:44
alteregolcukn902: yeah, doing better than me to be honest.23:45
alteregoI've not worked on Columbus for almost a month :x23:45
* SpeedEvil wonders if columbis can do bus timetables.23:45
alteregoNo :P23:45
* SpeedEvil needs to fix his keyboard.23:46
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flat`is ther app that when u plug in headphones, it starts musicplaye23:52
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SpeedEvilThere is an app which pauses the media player hen phones are unplugged I think.23:52
chxthere are sensors for that??23:53
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hawaii_Actually, headphoned will pause when unplugged.23:54
Jaffachx: Yes, have you not noticed the status area gains an icon to show you when headphones & headsets are plugged in? And that it has its own volume level.23:54
chxmmm true.23:54
hawaii_If you want it to start when plugged in, you can use actionmanagerdaemon23:54
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pupniksee... n900 is powerful23:57
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pupnikcan the windows mobile community hack their device this easily23:57
pupniki doubt it23:57
pupnikeven android is a pain to work with.  I had to go to some haxxor site to get a ssh daemon which i couldn't trust, had no feedback23:58
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pupnikto build their browser takes like 15GB23:59
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SpeedEvilCheck out the on-screen 'widgets'23:59
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