| pupnik | haha i pasted http://www.dealextreme.com/p/cube-world-stick-people-series-2-handy-5571 | 00:00 |
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| pupnik | nice copy of maemo icons | 00:01 |
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| ale152 | could anyone tell me how to read strenght power of fm transmitter from terminal? :D | 00:35 |
| hawaii_ | cat /sys/clas/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level ? | 00:38 |
| FireFly|n900 | the power level of my transmitter is <9000 :( | 00:41 |
| ale152 | yes, that one :D | 00:41 |
| ale152 | thank you hawaii_ :D | 00:41 |
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| pupnik | http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/04/guess-their-origin-and-rate-their.html Finland beats Germany | 00:53 |
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| * GeneralAntilles yawns. | 03:24 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | valhalla resigned? Nice. | 03:29 |
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| jonwil | bah, I found YET ANOTHER THING that is closed source in maemo and open source in meego | 03:50 |
| jonwil | ohm-plugins-misc | 03:50 |
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| pupnik | heheh | 04:02 |
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| pupnik | http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320658879120&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT absolute classic 'SmashTV' console going for fairly good price - 50 minutes left | 04:05 |
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| jonwil | I am sort of figuring some stuff out about the dialer but I dont know the best way to document the information | 04:19 |
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| jonwil | wiki page comming up | 04:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: I love mpg123 | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | from what they have on their feature page | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>GStreamer apps could also profit from getting libmpg123 mojo -- and there is a libmpg123 plugin for GStreamer, which apparently just needs some polish. See discussion at GNOME / Rhythmbox and launchpad bug for Rhythmbox<< for the MAFW fanboys | 06:22 |
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| ShadowJK | I think ffmpeg is much faster than libmpg123 on arm | 06:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >>The ffmpeg project could still profit from getting a libmpg123 wrapper: ffmpeg audio decoder performance comparison. Now a question is: Which fork of ffmpeg? I remember Michael saying that he won't oppose a wrapper when it's maintained, while Diego stronly argued for actually moving mpg123 code into ffmpeg and ditch any separate specialized library.<< | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mpg123.orgis.org/cgi-bin/news.cgi | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | FFmpeg is quite an amazing program. There’s a certain smugness that comes with being involved with it. That can lead to a bit of complacency followed by shock when realizing that you’re not as good as you thought you were. | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | That happened to me recently when I realized the official libtheora decoder is significantly more performant than FFmpeg’s Theora decoder. | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | << | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> Results: FFmpeg: 22.3s libmad: 24.2s mpg123: 9.5s<< | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | mpg123 -q -s file.mp3 > /dev/null | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, 14 months old | 06:53 |
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| ShadowJK | that's most likely on x86 | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | but yeah, >> As Mans discovered, sometimes FFmpeg’s deficiencies are actually gcc’s fault. However, that blog post was primarily concerned with PowerPC.<< somebody might want to test that for ARM. Nevertheless mpg123 *has* that nice feature list (EQ, gapless playback...) | 06:57 |
| ShadowJK | gapless is more of a player feature, not so much of a codec feature :) | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | the decoder engine has to know how to switch mp3 encoded input in a gapless way | 06:59 |
| ShadowJK | engine != codec | 06:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hm, yeah | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no coffee | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | mpg123 is both anyway, and that's what I like it for | 07:01 |
| ShadowJK | When you put libmpg123 in another "engine" or player, there wont necessarily be gapless playback unless the engine+player supports it | 07:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but when you put MAFW into any player GUI, there'll be *no* gapless playback no matter what you do | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | not to mention the other points listed in http://mpg123.orgis.org/features.shtml | 07:04 |
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| * ShadowJK tested mplayer-maemo5 decode of a random mp3 file just now | 07:08 | |
| ShadowJK | ffmpeg 25 seconds mp3lib (internal copy of libmpg123) 30 seconds | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite decent for the aded functionality | 07:09 |
| ShadowJK | the easiest hack for gapless playback with most players+codecs: cat *.mp3 | player - | 07:09 |
| ShadowJK | ;p | 07:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 07:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, my point stands: mafw is clumsy crap, monolithic apps doing eq and whatever else mangeling (dyn compr), and decoding all in one step are per definitionem more versatile and higher optimized than backend frameworks like MAFW | 07:12 |
| ShadowJK | sure | 07:13 |
| ShadowJK | mafw and gstreamer are best avoided :) | 07:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't forget about PA, should become an element of your list of things to avoid - esp XPROT which best is done in HW but also can be done withut 18% CPU punishment in mpg123 for example | 07:15 |
| MohammadAG | 18% of the cpu is wasted for protection? | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw I hope you repeated your tests of mplayer ffmpeg vs mp3lib a several times, to make sure you always got the same cache situation etc | 07:18 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 07:20 |
| ShadowJK | disabled sounds output too | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer to compare to mpg123 anyway | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | but honestly I'm not that much interested in performance, way more in feature set and quality | 07:22 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, new firefox/fennec | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah I know, mp3 and quality in same sentence is kinda paradox. But that's where that mindset to tolerate all kinds of quirks comes from, people don't care about HiFi and *music* any more, the want cheap *sound* | 07:24 |
| * ShadowJK hopes proxy support is back | 07:24 | |
| ShadowJK | libmad (and its mad123 player) are probably highest quality, iirc it decodes to 20 bits or something | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't help when you postprocess that in XPROT and whatnot, not to mention EQ | 07:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | won't help when you postprocess that in XPROT and whatnot, not to mention EQ | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a true gapless clickfree playback of Pink Floyd album where one song fades into next, that's still not an original feature of libmad | 07:28 |
| * DocScrutinizer heads out to get some coffee somewhere | 07:30 | |
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| ShadowJK | it's not a codec feature | 07:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but it's a mpg123 feature | 07:31 |
| ShadowJK | For gapless playback either the calling player or the codec itself must be able to truncate the last mp3 frame to correct length. The calling player must not flush,close,open sound output between songs | 07:32 |
| ShadowJK | mpg123 the player obviously can do this | 07:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and mafw never even thought about it | 07:33 |
| ShadowJK | right | 07:33 |
| ShadowJK | probably not gstreamer either | 07:34 |
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| ShadowJK | and we don't know if the nokia supplied mp3 decoder can truncate last frame | 07:34 |
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| Morvan | Hello | 07:52 |
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| Morvan | How to increase the size of the partition rootfs in a flashing ? | 07:56 |
| Morvan | ( I'm french, sorry for my bad english ) | 07:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rootfs is using all the space available, you can't increase it (it's on 256MB NAND) | 08:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /opt however is mounted from /home which lives on eMMC in a default 2GV partition that easily can grow, see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2GB* | 08:04 |
| Morvan | I'm can to increase the size of partition 256 MB ? | 08:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NAND is a separate flash chip of 256MB size | 08:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | think of it like your boot HDD in your PC. It can't grow | 08:08 |
| Morvan | Because in the end it was she who flange for installing all my programs. | 08:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | your programs should install to /opt, see | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 08:09 |
| infobot | [optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 | 08:09 |
| Morvan | This is a limitation physic? Omg. | 08:10 |
| Morvan | It is possible to ignore this chip and copy the contents into the 30Gb disk? | 08:12 |
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| Morvan | OK. Thank you very much. | 08:20 |
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| Morvan | And it is possible to mount the phone via USB root? (And not chroot in the /home/user/MyDocs) | 08:23 |
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| Morvan | Use in mass storage | 08:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I was busy with buying and preparing coffee. Can you please rephrase your question | 08:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (ignore chip) well, not really/completely. The bootloader (caled NOLO, the thing that displays "NOKIA" during boot) will try to mount the rootfilesystem from that 256MB NAND chip, and also will look for kernel there | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | cat /proc/mtd | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | also output of cmd `mount` and `df -h` | 08:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ubi0:rootfs 228M 159M 66M 71% / | 08:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | /dev/mmcblk0p2 2,0G 575M 1,4G 31% /home | 08:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you might notice / is only 228MB, the rest is for the other partitions living on that 256MB NAND, as shown by `cat /proc/mtd` | 08:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway no tested app you can install from maemo-extras shall use more than a very few kB in rootfs. Optification (a process usually taken care of on buildhost) shall move all the huge space consuming stuff of any app to /opt | 08:38 |
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| slonopotamus | can autobuilder be fixed to stop segfaulting on each and every arm binary? | 08:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | admittedly that's a nasty hack, that has been invented to keep seamless software update working, as maemo-PR1.0 didn't have any /opt and of course no decent partitioning that would allow to mount /usr and /var partitions from that 32GB into rootfs. So everything is moved to /home/opt and linked to with symlinks | 08:41 |
| Morvan | Thank you very much, I'm going forward with all your information. :) | 08:42 |
| Morvan | I go again here in half a day. | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | you are welcome | 08:42 |
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| ShadowJK | I think 1.0 had /opt, I think it was the summit 300 that came without /opt, and getting those devices migrated to bigger /home partition was when the emmc flashing arrived | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, not sure about that | 08:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk should know | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe it had /opt, but no default policy to optify apps | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | we should ask mintux ;-D | 08:47 |
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| ShadowJK | autobuilder didn't do it automatically, no. That was probably added later as a facepalm response to devs consuming / :P | 08:47 |
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| ShadowJK | or the "my app is soooo important it has to be in /" that everyone had | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wish they had the balls to do a clear cut with 1.1 and iron out the nonsense of having boot relevant stuf in /usr, then actually bindmount /usr and /var from eMMC | 08:50 |
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| ShadowJK | I wish they'd adopted /usr/maemo or /usr/apps as a PREFIX for all extras apps :p | 08:50 |
| ShadowJK | on emmc | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ls ~user/.config - BLARGH!! | 08:51 |
| ShadowJK | and it's not even backed uo by backup utility :) | 08:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA | 08:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | failwhale | 08:52 |
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| * DocScrutinizer takes a huge gulp of his coffee | 08:53 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | sometimes you start to think somebody in Nokia favouring sybian has placed a few moles inside Qt, then forced Qt into maemo/meego as a part of a huge masterplan to make it fail and step back behind sybian | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, where's the benefit of that nuking down maemo for Qt and then another time for QML, that outweighs the fact Nokia missed to come up with a competitive OS version on a new device, in 2010? | 08:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I'm afraid they aren't done yet with maemo, but rather will push a m6-harmattan-meegoHE based on Qt down maemo/N900 community's throat, to kill the whole "ecosystem" for good | 09:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as in m6 you can bet your ass there'll be so many regressions and bugs in all the ported-to-Qt maemo-core stuff, it'll be mere unusable as a daily phone, and m5 will become obsolete the day m6 rolls out. Mission accomplished, maemo dead | 09:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: don't you think we've seen all this before? | 09:17 |
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| * DocScrutinizer idly dreams about a reality where there's been no meego-merger and Nokia assigned all manpower to improving/FOSSing maemo, came up with a nifty sleek m6 competitive to andridiot, on a selection of 2 or 3 alternative N9++ devices in 2010, while eventually adopting dalvik-emu to maemo... | 09:27 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | one single downside: this path wouldn't serve as a hindsight excuse for buying trolltech/Qt, and wouldn't serve as a catalyst for Qt in symbian (which is dead either way) | 09:29 |
| ruskie | and what's the point of having dalvik-emu again? | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the "we want that fart app" fanboys | 09:29 |
| ruskie | ahh | 09:29 |
| ruskie | so basically another useless thingy | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | as useless as nitdroid | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | but better | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus for Nokia it's a living "ecosystem" better than the winP7 crap they got now | 09:31 |
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| gomiam | erm... weird problem: I have two N800s and only one of them is able to see my home network. Any idea about why that could happen? There seems to be no problem at other networks. | 09:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chan 13, US vs EU WLAN channel regulation | 09:39 |
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| gomiam | I think I'm using channel 6, but you might be on to something... I'll check it when I get home. | 09:41 |
| gomiam | thanks for the idea. | 09:41 |
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| jonwil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Dialer | 09:52 |
| jonwil | Figured out some of the interesting stuff in librtcom-dialer-ui | 09:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: WOW | 09:57 |
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| ruskie | nice | 10:00 |
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| jonwil | Next up I am going to identify function prototypes for all the functions in librtcom-dialer-ui called by rtcom-dialer-ui | 10:03 |
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| jonwil | btw, the US vs EU channel 13 thing is what wl1251-cal is doing (and possibly why its closed source) | 10:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yup | 10:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | also all access to CAL seems is covered by policy "always closed" | 10:22 |
| Turtle^^ | whats us vs eu channel 13 thing? | 10:24 |
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| jonwil | wireless lan rules in different parts of the world | 10:24 |
| Turtle^^ | i c | 10:25 |
| crashanddie | same thing as FM radio only going up to 108 in some parts of the world, or down to 87... | 10:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | while down to 72(?) in others | 10:26 |
| crashanddie | don't remember the numbers, that's why I didn't give it a shot :D | 10:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | or FMTX maximum power | 10:26 |
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| marainein | how far does the n900's fm radio go to? | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | see above | 10:27 |
| ZogG_w | holla | 10:27 |
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| * marainein wonders what secrets lie beyond the 108 mhz region | 10:28 | |
| ZogG_w | FBI radio | 10:28 |
| Turtle^^ | military and stuff | 10:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | batman | 10:28 |
| ZogG_w | DocScrutinizer: knows | 10:29 |
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| ZogG_w | anyway why MohammadAG | 10:29 |
| crashanddie | in the US, aviation navigation frequencies | 10:29 |
| ZogG_w | want to talk to me | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually TV, taxi/other, Police 2m band... | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | aviation as well, yes | 10:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | radio amateur | 10:30 |
| jacekowski | well, aviation frequencies are about 10mhz higher | 10:30 |
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| jacekowski | and in between, hmm not much | 10:30 |
| jacekowski | tv is a lot higher | 10:31 |
| crashanddie | TV channel 6 is < 87.9Mhz in the US. | 10:31 |
| Turtle^^ | but all these rules are fine, why close the source for them? | 10:31 |
| Turtle^^ | in the software to control the frequencies | 10:32 |
| ZogG_w | crashanddie: hmmmm | 10:32 |
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| ZogG_w | u know to much about US military for the french guy | 10:32 |
| jacekowski | Turtle^^: close source of what | 10:33 |
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| crashanddie | ZogG, well, a/ I'm not french, b/ this is just general knowledge, has nothing to do with military | 10:34 |
| Turtle^^ | jacekowski, it was being discussed up there some code that is closed source due to us vs eu rules | 10:37 |
| crashanddie | that's not at all what I saw. | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://cgi.ebay.de/Allband-Funk-Empfaenger-Flug-Feuerw-Polizei-Schiff-Taxi-/330515544919 | 10:37 |
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| crashanddie | [09:22:17] <DocScrutinizer> also all access to CAL seems is covered by policy "always closed" | 10:37 |
| crashanddie | [09:24:20] <Turtle^^> whats us vs eu channel 13 thing? | 10:37 |
| crashanddie | [09:24:50] <jonwil> wireless lan rules in different parts of the world | 10:37 |
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| jacekowski | well, wireless driver isn't closed | 10:39 |
| jonwil | the firmware is | 10:40 |
| jacekowski | and iirc there was some code that detected where you are and based on that enabled disabled channels | 10:40 |
| jacekowski | but i'm not sure where it got location info | 10:40 |
| crashanddie | the country you gave it during setup | 10:40 |
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| lolcat | Is it supposed to forgett the date every time I remove the battery? | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | No | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | only if your internal safety battery is dead | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | (usually after a year or so) | 10:41 |
| lolcat | Bougth it as a display model... | 10:42 |
| marainein | this may be a retarded question, but can i install packages from the fremantle sdk (the ones used by scratchbox) onto my n900? | 10:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: It does look ratehr familiar, yes. | 10:42 |
| chem|st | lolcat: the internal battery seems to hold date and time only for a minute or so | 10:43 |
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| chem|st | marainein: O_o | 10:44 |
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| marainein | i want libc6-dev, because ruby-dev depends upon it, but libc6-dev it isn't in the extras repository | 10:45 |
| crashanddie | marainein, sure, but try to ensure you only install a specific package | 10:46 |
| crashanddie | marainein, don't go around doing a "apt-get update / apt-get upgrade" or something silly like that | 10:46 |
| marainein | download && dpkg -i ? | 10:46 |
| ZogG_w | anyway what object of qt creator should be used for text changed by app, for example the name of song of widget? label? | 10:47 |
| crashanddie | marainein, no, I meant "don't go upgrading all the packages in your N900 using those provided in the SDK repo" | 10:47 |
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| crashanddie | marainein, if you can just wget/dpkg, go for it, if there are dependencies, try to be cautious... | 10:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | FYI (*all* frequencies :-D) http://mitglied.multimania.de/bauersebi/BOS-Funk/Funkdienste/Bandplan2GHz.htm | 10:47 |
| marainein | crashanddie, ok, i'll see what happens | 10:48 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, http://xkcd.com/273/ | 10:48 |
| ZogG_w | khertan: mon ami | 10:48 |
| lolcat | chem|st: It was out only for 20-30 seconds while I replaced the sim. | 10:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: nice | 11:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aviation++ http://mitglied.multimania.de/bauersebi/BOS-Funk/Funkdienste/Flugfunk.htm | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | (MIR probably isn't exactly aviation) | 11:16 |
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| jonwil | This dialer work is hard | 11:16 |
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| jonwil | I dont think I will ever be able to figure out enough information to let one build a dialer replacement | 11:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: I would not hestitate to bet on you. That work on the recent wikipage is awesome | 11:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: we got working FOSS dialer implementations (though not on maemo yet) to compare what's needed. This will facilitate to figure what those calls are for | 11:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's skype and SIP integration that complicates things quite a bit | 11:21 |
| jonwil | If all you want to do is to make a GSM phonecall thats possible | 11:22 |
| lolcat | SIP? | 11:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, even from commandline ;-D echo ATD55512345 | pnatd | 11:22 |
| lolcat | Does skype use a lot of bandwith? | 11:22 |
| jonwil | sip is a VoIP protocol | 11:23 |
| lolcat | ahh | 11:23 |
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| jonwil | Thanks to my work, we now know how to send DTMF tones | 11:24 |
| jonwil | IMO the dialer is probably the most complex piece of software on the N900 | 11:25 |
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| ruskie | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control <-- has a lot of dbus stuff | 11:26 |
| marainein | my attempt to get ruby-dev installed by installing libc6-dev eventually did work. i can now use gem to install ruby gems | 11:26 |
| jonwil | yep I saw that | 11:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite possibly it actually is, yes | 11:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | while it looks so simple, on fist glance. Really not too bad an implementation, if only a few quirks weren't there, or - even better - it'd be FOSS | 11:28 |
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| ruskie | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Ofono <-- this of course is a tad dated... | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | or at very least had a comprehensive set of hooks and a decent API doc | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/hooks/hooks & plugin interface/. | 11:30 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/28/german_data_regulators_want_to_tighten_ip_laws/ <-- interesting | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | even barisione which I consider one of the most knowledgeable and talented developers on maemo, had to do nasty hacks to *somehow* implement per-contact-ringtones | 11:32 |
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| lolcat | Is the N900 capable of FM tramsmitting to the 800mhz range? | 11:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | no | 11:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | The FM tranmitter is hardware limited | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: eh? | 11:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: yeah, our data privacy and security authorities aren't that bad. Alas they are rather teethless | 11:46 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: eh? ? | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-28 10:40:38] <SpeedEvil> The FM tranmitter is hardware limited | 11:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Err | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | relates to? | 11:47 |
| * SpeedEvil misread (09:38:21 AM) lolcat: Is the N900 capable of FM tramsmitting to the 800mhz range? | 11:47 | |
| crashanddie | The antenna probably wouldn't have enough gain to to xmit to the 800Mhz range | 11:47 |
| crashanddie | So yeah, I'm with SpeedEvil on this one, hardware limited. | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, that's why I missed it :-D | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ignorelists are nice but sometimes equally annoying to the cause they're supposed to cure | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - no, I diddn'tr misread it | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: It may actually have more gain | 11:48 |
| crashanddie | hmm? | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | But the chip won't do it. | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | FMTX chip can't go 800 | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: The tx antenna is horribly limited due to the length being a tiny fraction of the wavelength. | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw who wants 800MHz, wtf is there that could use FM? | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe stereo FM with RDS X-P | 11:50 |
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| lolcat | DocScrutinizer: I have a remote headset that does ~853 I think | 11:51 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders idly about friggin TV remotes still use that clumsy IR so you need to point to the TV set, while smartphones never adopted 433/866 and went straight to BT. The huge class of X10 alike remote controls is a complete commercial fail, and I wonder why | 11:59 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's a patchwork. | 12:00 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't - generally - take any device and make it work with any other. | 12:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you can't do that with CIR either | 12:00 |
| dm8tbr | I'd just go for a ceiling mounted IR-blaster that is then IP connected :) | 12:01 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: hey | 12:01 |
| dm8tbr | legacy integration | 12:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: ack, still a botch | 12:01 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: i have a request for you | 12:02 |
| ruskie | ZogG_w, looking for me? | 12:02 |
| dm8tbr | things are increasingly IP connected, so that's the way to go IMHO | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course there are custom RCs on 433 that have a RX station to convert to CIR | 12:02 |
| dm8tbr | upnp and all | 12:02 |
| ruskie | haha | 12:02 |
| ruskie | upnp is still a joke sadly | 12:02 |
| dm8tbr | I know | 12:02 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: can you please upload xmms2 and all relevant stuff from your repo to extras? | 12:02 |
| dm8tbr | just tossing some buzz-words :) | 12:02 |
| crashanddie | I'm kinda bored by all the electric-enabled stuff | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | and IP aware RCs are rare, damn rare :-P | 12:03 |
| crashanddie | I've been trying to buy a proper salt and pepper mill, but you can only get electric ones | 12:03 |
| ruskie | ZogG_w, not likely to happen since I don't really like extras as such | 12:03 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: I think that's called a tablet :) | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: lol | 12:03 |
| crashanddie | who the fuck wants an electric pepper mill? | 12:03 |
| crashanddie | Are people really so fucking lazy they won't turn a knob anymore? | 12:03 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, people without a pestle and mortar ;) | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: I do not want a frigging tablet, which urges me to look at a screen full of softkeys, to control chan/vol of my TV and home stereo | 12:04 |
| lolcat | crashanddie: Mine is not electric | 12:04 |
| alterego | crashanddie: is that retorhorical? | 12:04 |
| crashanddie | alterego, heh | 12:04 |
| crashanddie | lolcat, congrats | 12:04 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: then you are not the target demography, stick to your legacy IR remote ;-p | 12:04 |
| alterego | wow, that was bad spelling, forgive me I've just woken up ;) | 12:05 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, I bought an iPod touch | 12:05 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, and an airport express, so that any computer in the house can stream music to the sound system | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | NO!! I want a proper 'legacy" RC with decent rubberbuttons, that doesn't need pointing to TV | 12:05 |
| crashanddie | and the iPod touch to control the macbook / iTunes | 12:05 |
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| ruskie | I'm getting this thing: http://www.teufelaudio.com/audio-streaming/1raumfeld-c.html | 12:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Some have physical difficulties with ordinary pepper mills. | 12:06 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, oh come on | 12:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Also - profit margin on electric ones is better. Also - ebay. | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, even my car and flat doorlock works with a dongle keypress that doesn't require any pointing. 866MHz | 12:07 |
| SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOX-12-NEW-SEALED-WOODEN-PEPPER-MILLS-/120688209042?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item1c1993ec92 | 12:07 |
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| ruskie | crashanddie, http://www.silit.com/diavolo-stainless-steel_1097/spice-mill-diavolo-st-steel-unfilled_3882.html | 12:08 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: why don't you? it's just as i said i work on some client/widget for xmms2 and it would be not nice to release it without xmms2 itself | 12:08 |
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| crashanddie | ruskie, I don't see a price | 12:08 |
| ruskie | ZogG_w, because I don't like optification and is the main reason I never submited anything to it... | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: you don't want to see that ;-D | 12:09 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, http://www.silit.de/gewuerzmuehle-salz-u-pfeffermuehle/muehlen-befuellt_1349.html | 12:09 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: but u do have optified stuff | 12:09 |
| SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cole-Mason-King-Pepper-mill-grinder-wooden-baseball-bat-/180629820000?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item2a0e605260 | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, thought you meant the teufelaudio | 12:09 |
| ruskie | ZogG_w, only due to the borkedness of the solution sadly :( | 12:09 |
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| ZogG_w | ruskie: as well as you understand why we do optify, but u can upload not opt | 12:10 |
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| crashanddie | lol SpeedEvil | 12:10 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: anyway if u will bored this week i would love you more if you up already optified package of xmms2 | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, I kinda like this one: http://www.amazon.fr/dp/B002EL4T4Q/ref=asc_df_B002EL4T4Q2161501?smid=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&tag=kelkoo_delta_kitchen-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22782&creativeASIN=B002EL4T4Q | 12:11 |
| ruskie | hmm I should start looking into getting the latest xmms2 setup... that I might be willing to submit to extras | 12:11 |
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| ZogG_w | ruskie: hmm i just looked thru your repo, you are mad man, you have so many tasty things and they are optified but u do not want to share =( | 12:13 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, something wrong with the teufelaudio stuff? | 12:13 |
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| crashanddie | I mean, seriously, electric salt and pepper grinders, WITH A FUCKING CHARGING BASE STATION http://www.amazon.fr/Domo-Do-313Pzdomo-Moulins-%C3%89lectriques-Rechargeables/dp/B002BA58S6/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1298887958&sr=1-4 | 12:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: friggin expensive? | 12:13 |
| ruskie | ZogG_w, I share.. people are free to add my repos | 12:13 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, actually cheap | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | ruskie, expensivvvvvvvve | 12:13 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, see linn.co.uk ;) | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | ruskie, and quality not as good as you could expect from a self-branded designer | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | B&O | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer++ | 12:14 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: but if everyone would make separete repo for everything it would be madness and not sparta | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | except that B&O is basically Philips hardware with a very nice design | 12:14 |
| ruskie | ZogG_w, I don't believe in a centralised distro setup | 12:14 |
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| crashanddie | ruskie, we spent *months* trying to get all the bloody repos out of the wild | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | And we managed | 12:14 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, I doubt it... since technically linn and all the other highend ones are the same ;) | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | Trust me, we've all gotten quite experienced at the mind games required to get people to remove their repos :P | 12:15 |
| crashanddie | the only one we've tolerated was... khertan | 12:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Mind, it'd be nice if we had a couple mirrors of the current one... I remember what happened when it went down :\ | 12:15 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: that's why we have extra, extra-dev ,extra-testing and other repos and community, you can talk to MohammadAG and maybe submit some stuff to community or something, as i saw some fixed or newer things u have | 12:16 |
| ruskie | cssu doesn't want stuff outside of core | 12:16 |
| ruskie | unless it requires changes to core | 12:16 |
| ruskie | and I can respect that | 12:16 |
| ZogG_w | crashanddie: khertan does have his repo too? | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 12:17 |
| ruskie | as for mind games feel free to try... | 12:17 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: but u have patched modest wich is in cssu and curl and other system usefull things | 12:17 |
| ruskie | I don't give a crap... I made the packages I did for myself and merley offered them to people that might be interested... | 12:17 |
| ZogG_w | crashanddie: but he uses extras as well | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | yes | 12:18 |
| ZogG_w | so let him use his repo as all i need in extras anyway | 12:18 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: but u do like to have good and tasty apps and new stuff right? | 12:19 |
| ruskie | also I don't plan on maintaining anything I submit to extras | 12:19 |
| ZogG_w | think if MohammadAG and cssu team would make update but wouldn't make it public | 12:19 |
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| ZogG_w | ruskie: u don't have, it's better old app than no app at all =) | 12:19 |
| ruskie | actually iirc extras stuff needs to be maintained... | 12:20 |
| ruskie | by maintained I mean I wouldn't even bother with bugfixing | 12:20 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: so if u once in 3 months update it u can just up it that's all | 12:20 |
| ruskie | I haven't actually updated the xmms2 packages since I created them | 12:20 |
| ruskie | anyway off to get some food | 12:20 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: u see i found you something more interesting than chating here, xmms2 update and upload it to extras | 12:21 |
| ZogG_w | ruskie: no wokr is done — no food | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | ruskie, I've got a relatively inexpensive setup, maybe 500 quid for the lot? Tannoy R3 Revolution, Cambridge Audio pre-amp and power-amp, a NAD C545 for CDs, and then streaming for everything that's on the computer... Works brilliantly | 12:21 |
| ZogG_w | sudo update xmms2 && sudo upload --extras | 12:21 |
| lolcat | ZogG_w: Is zmms2 bether than fmms? | 12:26 |
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| lolcat | xmms2* | 12:26 |
| ZogG_w | lolcat: what? xmms2 is not for mms | 12:28 |
| lolcat | Ahh | 12:28 |
| lolcat | Then I guess it isn't... | 12:29 |
| ZogG_w | meh | 12:29 |
| ZogG_w | gonna add ruskie repo | 12:29 |
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| lolcat | ruskie has her own repo? | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, didn't like Tannoy back in 1985. Dunno what they sound like nowadays | 12:33 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, Well, I got them for a bargain, so I can't complain | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, they're a bit bass heavy if you don't tune your amp, and dual-wired (so you do need a power amp and cables that can handle them) | 12:39 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, I just need something to plug into the existing hi-fi... and it needs to be self hosting... i.e. no external pcs or something to stream to... so this raumfeld is good... I could go for a philips np2500 for ~140 eur to do more or less the same things(one of the things is usb ... | 12:39 |
| crashanddie | Also, I filled mine with sand, so they anchor properly into the ground, however I'm lucky to be on ground floor | 12:39 |
| ruskie | ... connection with native flac support)... | 12:39 |
| ruskie | but that raumfeld is imho nicer than a philips thing | 12:39 |
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| ruskie | lolcat, has his own repo... yes | 12:39 |
| visz | is hostmode-easy-now the way to get usb otg for n900? | 12:39 |
| ruskie | lolcat, wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie | 12:40 |
| lolcat | ruskie: I thougth ruskie was a girlsname, sorry | 12:40 |
| SpeedEvil | visz: no. | 12:40 |
| crashanddie | lolcat, a girl in #maemo? | 12:40 |
| SpeedEvil | visz: The n900 cannot do OTG | 12:40 |
| crashanddie | ruskie, oh definitely, go for it if you like it, just be aware that you might get stuck in vendor lock-in... | 12:40 |
| ruskie | lolcat, actually it means russian in a few languages... and no I'm not... | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: well, what you call bass heavy is what I call missing transparency and locatability of treble | 12:41 |
| visz | mm really? | 12:41 |
| visz | i thought that was resolved ages ago | 12:41 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, it actually supports upnp so no real locking | 12:41 |
| crashanddie | UPnP doesn't take care of codecs ;) | 12:41 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, and they are actually working on brining full upnp to all their streaming devices | 12:41 |
| lolcat | ruskie: A girl I knew had a dog that I assumed was female that was named ruskie... She liked to go to russia and looked a bit russian... | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | visz: It is incapable of doing OTG in hardware. Tehre are missing components. This is completely seperate to USB hostmode. | 12:41 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, it supports flac and ogg ;) | 12:41 |
| visz | or is usb otg and usb host mode different? | 12:41 |
| visz | ah | 12:41 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, it's enough for my needs... 99% of my music is either flac or ogg... the few mp3s I have I don't actually worry about being able to play since they tend to play on everything | 12:42 |
| crashanddie | aye | 12:42 |
| ruskie | most of my music is also ripped from cds I actually own... | 12:42 |
| crashanddie | most of my music is streamed from Spotify :) | 12:43 |
| ruskie | ahh vendor lockin ;) | 12:43 |
| lolcat | crashanddie: But how do you do offline mode? | 12:43 |
| crashanddie | lolcat, eh? | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: please repeat your metaphor about how hostmode relates to OTG :-D | 12:43 |
| crashanddie | ruskie, good point :D | 12:43 |
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| lolcat | crashanddie: On the N900. If you need internet somewhere else | 12:43 |
| crashanddie | dude, the n900 is shit, I'm just in this channel for the people and conversations | 12:44 |
| crashanddie | I don't use the N900 anymore | 12:44 |
| ruskie | hehe | 12:44 |
| * lolcat N900es crashanddie (like stoning, except you throw N900'eds) | 12:44 | |
| crashanddie | well, with all the bricked devices out there, that might not be inappropriate... | 12:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | visz: OTG is mostly a marketing term, you usually want hostmode, not OTG | 12:45 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, really bricked where??? | 12:45 |
| visz | right on | 12:45 |
| visz | got some new phones to the office today | 12:46 |
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| visz | e7 ships with usb-host mode cable so i'm testing it out | 12:46 |
| crashanddie | "Newsflash, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop has been found drowned in one of Finland's main rivers, in what appears to be a terror act from disgruntled customers. He had been tied with USB cables and put in a bag, weighted down by what can only be described by hundreds of Nokia phones (N900, N810, N800 and N770)." | 12:47 |
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| crashanddie | ("N770" written with an N on purpose) | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | visz: if that cable actually fits to N900, then you can use it with h-e-n | 12:47 |
| visz | if i get hen up and running that is | 12:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | visz: h-e-n usually "just works" | 12:48 |
| visz | the page seems rather cryptic though | 12:49 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, that would require people to actually hate those devices... ;) | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | install powerkernel, install h-e-n, done | 12:49 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, frankly I don't think many people do hate them... | 12:49 |
| visz | oh | 12:49 |
| crashanddie | ruskie, frankly, it would be an honour to sacrifice my N900 to kill Elop. | 12:49 |
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| lolcat | crashanddie: More likley we kill Elop and keep our devices | 12:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests simple well targeted throwing | 12:50 | |
| crashanddie | I'm waiting for the iPad 2 :) | 12:50 |
| * crashanddie hides | 12:50 | |
| kerio | crashanddie: you can hide but you can't escape from the reality distortion field | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | the iPad2 probably has no superior properties when used as a rock to throw at elop's head :-) | 12:51 |
| * ruskie has so far resisted any urges on getting an apple device | 12:51 | |
| ruskie | but then... I don't have any urges | 12:51 |
| lolcat | The only apple device I could use would be a laptop | 12:52 |
| ruskie | my tablet of choice is still an always innovating touchbook... | 12:52 |
| lolcat | Without iOS | 12:52 |
| ruskie | which I still don't actually have :( | 12:52 |
| kerio | lolcat: i have a macbook pro 17" | 12:52 |
| kerio | it's awesome | 12:52 |
| kerio | :3 | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I still don't need a tablet | 12:52 |
| visz | oh i see, the packet is in the repository =) | 12:52 |
| visz | hostmode-gui | 12:52 |
| lolcat | kerio: Dell Latitude D630, best laptop ever. Easy to take apart, never overheats. And everything except the hdd can take some beating | 12:53 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, well the touchbook is a netbook+tablet in one ;) | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | wouldn't mind to use a MBP or a nice Pana toughbook | 12:53 |
| ZogG_w | what is the fastest way to compile program for maemo =) | 12:53 |
| ruskie | detachable | 12:53 |
| ruskie | and arm based | 12:53 |
| ZogG_w | scrathbox? | 12:53 |
| tybollt | lolcat: We'll kill Elop and then we'll ELOPE.... | 12:53 |
| ruskie | with usb ports internally to hook up things | 12:53 |
| kerio | lolcat: it fell like a meter and a half | 12:53 |
| tybollt | mind, pun was highly intentional | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | visz: indeed it is | 12:53 |
| kerio | it has a dent in the chassis - everything else works great | 12:53 |
| lolcat | tybollt: hehe | 12:54 |
| tybollt | shrug | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | elopers, elopers, elopers | 12:54 |
| lolcat | kerio: I broke 4 harddrives in this laptop | 12:54 |
| lolcat | Now I've given up! I use a 16gb usb stick | 12:55 |
| tybollt | wonder what's going to happen to the whole tech-geek-OMGITSSOSHINYPINKPONIES!111-hemisphere when old man Jobs drops off because of cancer | 12:55 |
| kerio | lolcat: ...and that's a good laptop according to you? :| | 12:55 |
| ShadowJK | The laptop is too much metal :) needs more deformable material to absorb impact energy instead of transfering it to harddrive :P | 12:55 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: no, he's talking about a dell latitude | 12:55 |
| kerio | i assume it's made of mostly plastic | 12:55 |
| tybollt | sjk: We'll just embed $new_laptop into a bunch of Wellingotn's then? | 12:55 |
| lolcat | kerio: The harddrives sucks, but those have been diffrent brands. If I get an SSD that'll fix it | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: panasonic toughbook | 12:56 |
| crashanddie | I wonder how Jobs will go down in history | 12:56 |
| tybollt | crashanddie: very reasonable question... I do as well. | 12:56 |
| crashanddie | I mean, most people still believe Bill Gates still runs Microsoft | 12:56 |
| kerio | lolcat: my laptop has a motion sensor that parks the hd in case of sudden motion | 12:57 |
| crashanddie | But once Jobs is gone, what then? | 12:57 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, well he does... | 12:57 |
| crashanddie | Are there any company CEOs that got basically as popular as presidential candidates? | 12:57 |
| tybollt | crashie: W/ jobs it's not so much that he runs APPLE as it is he "runs" the masses, the hords, the legions that is the mac-fanbois | 12:57 |
| crashanddie | I guess Henry Ford could be considered one | 12:57 |
| Veggen | tybollt: I see the transformation that happens when people get their first iThingy, and notice the willingess too forgive everything, because it's "soooo shiny"...that I'm not sure wheter or not Jobs have discovered mind control rays ;) | 12:58 |
| ruskie | hehe... | 12:58 |
| crashanddie | But seriously, other than Ford, is there any name that pops in your mind when you think of "Famous CEOs"? | 12:58 |
| ruskie | crashanddie, Gates? | 12:58 |
| kerio | crashanddie: elop! | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Ratner. | 12:59 |
| crashanddie | Ratner? Whoshe? | 12:59 |
| kerio | it takes balls to destroy a multinational corporation with billions | 12:59 |
| alterego | Yeah, Gates .. | 12:59 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner#The_speech | 12:59 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 12:59 |
| crashanddie | Ok, so we have... 3 in total? | 12:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Richard Branston | 12:59 |
| alterego | McBride | 12:59 |
| tybollt | branson? | 12:59 |
| ruskie | ow yeah... branson... | 13:00 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: epic | 13:00 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: you mean branson? :P | 13:00 |
| tybollt | that lunatic | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: Virgin | 13:00 |
| tybollt | SE: I know | 13:00 |
| tybollt | still a lunatic :) | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | that russian guy CEO of oil company that's doing time, golodkovski or sth | 13:00 |
| ruskie | tybollt, but a successful one ;) | 13:00 |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: chodorovskij | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | and of course shuttleunworth | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm sorry - I have a lot of respect for branson. (nsfw) http://current.com/news/89987117_richard-branson-and-a-naked-denni-parkinson-nsfw-photos.htm | 13:00 |
| tybollt | I'd say Ellison if any... Branson is ... Iono doubt all that many know the poor sod | 13:00 |
| alterego | Darl McBride | 13:01 |
| ruskie | rofl | 13:01 |
| alterego | Alan Sugar? | 13:01 |
| ruskie | tybollt, well the question was famous ceos... frankly... ellison doesn't pop in... | 13:02 |
| alterego | John Chambers | 13:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Sugar isn't really very famous anymore apart from the TV appearances. | 13:02 |
| alterego | I'm reading my hit list btw :P | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | penthouse, playboy CEOs - sorry I'm really bad with names | 13:02 |
| kerio | efner? | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | hugh heffner or sth like that | 13:03 |
| kerio | yeah, hefner | 13:03 |
| alterego | Steve Balmer | 13:04 |
| crashanddie | DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS | 13:04 |
| alterego | Howard Hughes | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and then that absolutely nuts guy who worked with CIA and recovered the russian submarine | 13:04 |
| ruskie | well that's the microsoft motto... developers developers developers... | 13:04 |
| crashanddie | No | 13:04 |
| crashanddie | That's Reiser's wet dream in prison. | 13:05 |
| Jaffa | Eww | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ELOPERS ELOPERS ELOPERS ELOPERS ELOPERS | 13:05 |
| ruskie | yes... m$ wants the whole world to develop on their systems... | 13:05 |
| ruskie | they don't care about users... just devs... | 13:05 |
| ruskie | users will follow devs | 13:05 |
| crashanddie | HAHA | 13:05 |
| crashanddie | dude | 13:05 |
| ruskie | it's an interesting strategy | 13:05 |
| crashanddie | really? | 13:05 |
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| Jaffa | Gates, Jobs, Branson, Ford are probably the mainstream ones. Ellison, McBride, Schwartz/McNealy, Schmidt might be more available in tech circles. | 13:05 |
| crashanddie | "Users will follow devs?" | 13:05 |
| crashanddie | Quite frankly, it's the other way around | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Elon Musk. | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | (Space-X) | 13:06 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: It's a virtuous circle. | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | (thoughI suppose most will know him of paypal) | 13:06 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Devs follow users, but users follow devs. | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - the facebook guy. | 13:06 |
| crashanddie | Devs are more likely to go where there is money to be made | 13:06 |
| kerio | steve elop-ers steve elop-ers steve elop-ers steve elop-ers | 13:06 |
| ruskie | if there is no devs for a platform but there are users it doesn't mean there will be devs automatically | 13:06 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:07 |
| crashanddie | And users are more likely to go to where the fun/price ratio gives them an apparent good value for money | 13:07 |
| ShadowJK | Isn't it impressive, it took Steve Jobs and Bill Gates years of hard work to piss off users, Elop did it overnight :P | 13:07 |
| crashanddie | haha | 13:07 |
| visz | meh | 13:07 |
| ruskie | hehe | 13:07 |
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| crashanddie | aaanyway | 13:08 |
| crashanddie | enough chit-chat | 13:08 |
| visz | the e7 opr x3-02 micro-usb connector is somehow different than n900's | 13:08 |
| ShadowJK | Oh I guess Darl McBride did that too :) | 13:08 |
| crashanddie | I've got an RPM autobuilder to set up | 13:08 |
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| Mece | 'ello o/ | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | howard hughes, damn that took some time to dig out that CEO - and still I wonder if he's actually been CEO and of which company :-P | 13:09 |
| ShadowJK | didn't he construct the spruce goose :P | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah I think so | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure he built the glomar explorer | 13:10 |
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| Mece | what's the amiga emulator called again? uae something? | 13:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/something// | 13:13 |
| Mece | uae4all or uae ? | 13:13 |
| Mece | uae4all sounds like smoku | 13:13 |
| ShadowJK | start typing uae in app manager | 13:14 |
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| Mece | i did. found uae and uae4all as I stated | 13:14 |
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| Mece | uae4all it is. | 13:15 |
| Mece | i compiled standard uae ages ago but dungeonmaster was so slow it was unplayable. | 13:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | never heard of uae4all | 13:18 |
| Mece | it's maemo specific | 13:18 |
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| Mece | DocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50040 | 13:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Mece: I'm astonished nobody seems has tried to use uae4all with h-e-n, for mouse/joystick support | 13:45 |
| Mece | oh | 13:46 |
| Mece | ohfeck | 13:46 |
| Mece | uae changed my keyboard layout. | 13:46 |
| Mece | how do i change it back? | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 13:46 |
| Mece | i don't think i've ever changed it before hehe | 13:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the commonly used way is via settings - imput | 13:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but I doubt use changed that setting to mess around with keymap | 13:49 |
| Mece | DocScrutinizer, hehe found it, thanks | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ use / uae /. | 13:49 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: got the eq'd version compiled? | 13:49 |
| pupnik | mpg23 | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, not even tried | 13:49 |
| pupnik | http://mpg123.orgis.org/api/group__mpg123__voleq.shtml#gf6ae0d8c593d295c36e7d20e9f892840 | 13:49 |
| pupnik | the bands are varying freq, in mp3 but fixed freq in mp2 | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, what? | 13:51 |
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| pupnik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_Audio_Layer_II hmm leme find | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I already started wondering what freq the bands 0..31 are assigned to | 13:54 |
| pupnik | MP2 is a sub-band audio encoder, which means that compression takes place in the time domain with a low-delay filter bank producing 32 frequency domain components. | 13:54 |
| pupnik | but i think it's a coincidence | 13:54 |
| pupnik | not sure | 13:55 |
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| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5CF5pfVzLI "War Made Easy" Trailer ... | 14:02 |
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| ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2011/02/28/review_nokia_dc_14/ | 14:22 |
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| * SpeedEvil listens to lots of mp2 content. | 14:29 | |
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| Venemo | alterego: ping | 15:19 |
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| Khertan1 | Hi ! | 15:19 |
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| Khertan1 | About the cssu did there is a git repository for submitting merge for Qt 4.7 ? | 15:20 |
| Khertan1 | i va a bug to fix in it :) | 15:20 |
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| Khertan1 | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-15140?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=132069#action_132069 | 15:20 |
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| Venemo | Khertan1: ping MohammadAG or Jaffa about CSSU matters on #maemo-ssu | 15:20 |
| Khertan1 | ah thx | 15:21 |
| divan | Have someone tried Flash 10 .so binary on N900? | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | The leaked flash 10 reportedly has no accelleration | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | So performance is going to be poor at best. | 15:22 |
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| divan | Youtube broken for me with it. Other flash apps seems to work nice with less CPU usage. | 15:22 |
| Khertan1 | Have you written a patch for Maemo? Raise a bug and let's get it in the CSSU. | 15:22 |
| Khertan1 | hum ... strange idea ... | 15:22 |
| divan | Yeah, youtube player eats CPU as before, but I can't click anything on it's area. | 15:23 |
| divan | No fullscreen, rewind, etc. It simply reopens current page. | 15:23 |
| divan | Can anyone confirm? | 15:23 |
| divan | Here is the link on 10.1 binary. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4815558/libflashplayer.so | 15:23 |
| divan | Version is 10.1.105.6 | 15:24 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan1: Why's that a strange idea? Or are you referring to the wording? | 15:33 |
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| Khertan1 | Jaffa: because it s upstream part :) | 15:33 |
| Jaffa | Khertan1: Well "Maemo" means the "Maemo stack". Feel free to edit (it's a wiki!) to clarify the wording. | 15:34 |
| Jaffa | Khertan1: It would seem unlikely for the CSSU to include fixes for bugs which weren't evident on Maemo ;-) | 15:34 |
| Khertan1 | Jaffa: indeed | 15:34 |
| Venemo | I think achipa should be brought in with this | 15:37 |
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| jonwil | Back to trying to reverse engineer the dialer | 15:42 |
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| * jonwil wishes there was a way he could pull packages | 15:45 | |
| * jonwil wishes there was a way he could pull packages (including changelogs) for things not in the SDK repos | 15:45 | |
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| achipa | Venemo: wuzzat ? | 16:10 |
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| Venemo | achipa: see scrollback, Khertan1 has a bugfix for Qt | 16:14 |
| Venemo | achipa: we discussed whether or not it can be somehow included in CSSU | 16:14 |
| Khertan1 | ah | 16:16 |
| Khertan1 | i m here | 16:16 |
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| * Khertan1 is still downloading the qt-x11-maemo git repository ... | 16:17 | |
| Venemo | achipa: we were also talking about whether the fix could be directly included in upstream Qt | 16:18 |
| Khertan1 | achipa: the bug report is here : but the fix still not included upstream | 16:18 |
| Khertan1 | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-15140?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=132069#action_132069 | 16:18 |
| achipa | trying to open (proxy hell) | 16:18 |
| Khertan1 | :) | 16:18 |
| Khertan1 | but you aren't working for nokia ? :) | 16:19 |
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| achipa | exactly - that only makes it more difficult :P | 16:20 |
| Khertan1 | héhé | 16:20 |
| Khertan1 | connecting people ... ... ... :) | 16:21 |
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| achipa | people... nobody said anything about computers or bugs :) | 16:22 |
| jacekowski | i have pest here | 16:24 |
| jacekowski | mice to be precise | 16:24 |
| RST38h | The fat big headed one or the thin pinky one? | 16:25 |
| jacekowski | dunno | 16:26 |
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| jacekowski | i've just seen shit all around | 16:26 |
| jacekowski | but now i'm prepared for full warfare | 16:26 |
| jacekowski | i have chemical weapns | 16:26 |
| jacekowski | mouse traps | 16:27 |
| jacekowski | rat traps | 16:27 |
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| RST38h | try nuclear, nuclear is good | 16:27 |
| RST38h | + you will easily find their glow-in-the-dark corpses | 16:27 |
| Khertan1 | jacekowski: a cat is enough ... now every day i ve two or three mouse near the door of my house... | 16:28 |
| Khertan1 | of course some part are missing ... | 16:28 |
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| achipa | Khertan1: have you tried poking harryF on #qt-maemo ? | 16:28 |
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| jacekowski | Khertan1: well, there was cat running around here | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | Khertan1: and couple days later problem started | 16:29 |
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| Khertan1 | but it s also helpfull for killing mole, hare, magpie, and all the birds that wake me in the morning | 16:30 |
| Khertan1 | jacekowski: i ve two cats :) | 16:30 |
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| Khertan1 | which are making cleaning 1km arround :) | 16:30 |
| Khertan1 | achipa: nope | 16:31 |
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| achipa | Khertan1: that would be a good starting point, then :) | 16:32 |
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| Khertan1 | achipa: maybe but for saying what ... seems not to be the priority | 16:36 |
| Khertan1 | :) | 16:36 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: See email on maemo-developers regarding Qt fixes in CSSU | 16:36 |
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| chem|st | parrot AR-drones are in the stores... anyone had a look at the sources yet? | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Too expensive, hasn't got any laser weapons on it, why bother? | 16:44 |
| RST38h | Khertan: Are you getting the bigger, tastier parts though? | 16:44 |
| chem|st | RST38h: for a proper selfmade without cameras you easily pay four times the price | 16:45 |
| RST38h | Khertan: Because if you are not, the cat does not respect you! =) | 16:45 |
| RST38h | chem|st: Yes, but what are you going to use it for? | 16:48 |
| cos^ | chem|st: yep.. the sources are quite awful code but luckily in mardrone most problems have been solved | 16:48 |
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| Khertan1 | RST38h: my cats eat the mouse but let me hare intact. | 16:49 |
| RST38h | ! | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | smart! | 16:50 |
| Khertan1 | indeed ... :) | 16:50 |
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| Khertan1 | RST38h: It also provides excellent protection to avoid having cherries pecked by birds | 16:51 |
| pupnik | parrot needs a non-flat surface to fly over (for image based stabilization) | 16:51 |
| Arkenoi | Oh shit. For every gmail jabber contact a fake "email" record is created. If you just delete it (as there is no email on that address, xmpp only), stupid gtalk drops authorization/presence subscription. | 16:52 |
| cos^ | pupnik: no it doesn't. works fine in office environment. | 16:52 |
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| pupnik | doesn't maintain stable on a flat-color floor | 16:52 |
| pupnik | also will smash into ceiling if you fly it over furniture/tables | 16:52 |
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| pupnik | needs more than one ultrasonic sensor to prevent that | 16:53 |
| cos^ | our office has gray mat with some texture, and it keeps position pretty well | 16:53 |
| Arkenoi | damn sucks, there is no real connection between two! | 16:53 |
| pupnik | nice | 16:53 |
| pupnik | it's a great product for the price | 16:53 |
| cos^ | pupnik: do you have one? | 16:53 |
| pupnik | no, i am involved with the homebrew community | 16:53 |
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| Khertan1 | pupnik: but a bit expensive for a cat toys | 16:54 |
| cos^ | ok. it does not smash into ceiling if it flies over furniture or tables | 16:54 |
| pupnik | the version i saw did | 16:54 |
| cos^ | i believe it notices that altitude changes rapidly and tries to keep the new altitude | 16:54 |
| pupnik | ah firmware tweaks | 16:54 |
| cos^ | if you put hand under it and lift it slowly, it will rise up | 16:54 |
| cos^ | yep, could be firmware fixes | 16:55 |
| pupnik | nice | 16:55 |
| pupnik | plus it has a linux client i think | 16:55 |
| pupnik | how is the camera for you? | 16:55 |
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| cos^ | image is "ok" but laggy.. it's not possible to fly it using video feed only | 16:56 |
| pupnik | Khertan1: if you try to build the same thing yourself you'll spend 5x as much | 16:56 |
| cos^ | i have tested only using maemo and desktop linux clients, not the official iphone | 16:56 |
| pupnik | maemo client?? | 16:57 |
| pupnik | awesome | 16:57 |
| cos^ | ardrone is a competition theme in next meego summit, so you can expect some new maemo/meego apps for it | 16:58 |
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| chem|st | cos^: so meego devel is in progress | 17:00 |
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| chem|st | pupnik: actually the platform is only 120eur, without motors/rotors and stuff | 17:02 |
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| pupnik | someone with real talent might be able to make a quadcopter fly with only a n900 | 17:05 |
| pupnik | :D | 17:05 |
| sandst1 | pupnik: http://mardrone.garage.maemo.org/ | 17:12 |
| pupnik | o/ cool | 17:13 |
| chem|st | http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2010/12/23/ar-drone-with-meego | 17:15 |
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| Morvan | Hello again, to install the rootfs partition in the internal MMC card, you have an idea as argument to put in flasher-3.5 --rootfs = ...? | 17:17 |
| chem|st | pupnik: tape it to the drone and let it fly via waypoints... | 17:17 |
| kerio | isn't the ar drone overpriced? | 17:17 |
| chem|st | kerio: 299eur?! | 17:18 |
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| pupnik | you can try to build a similar drone and you will spend much more | 17:19 |
| kerio | yeah but i distinctly remember DocScrutinizer or SpeedEvil saying that as far as quadricopters go, the ar drone isn't that good | 17:20 |
| cos^ | pupnik: the stability requires really fast controlling, so afaik it wouldn't be possible | 17:20 |
| pupnik | cos^: yeah - well how about a 2-meter quadcopter :) | 17:21 |
| cos^ | there are no alternatives to ardrone in sama price range | 17:21 |
| pupnik | with positive dihedral for stability | 17:21 |
| pupnik | :) | 17:21 |
| chem|st | if you do not buy parrot parts you spend at least 500eur just for parts, and you do not have a PIB yet and no embedded linux to play with... | 17:21 |
| cos^ | even standard rc speed controllers are too slow for quadcopters | 17:21 |
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| pupnik | they made vtol without controllers in the 60s :D | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | cos^: wut? 600MHz arm A8 too slow to stabilize a drone? :-P | 17:22 |
| chem|st | cos^: yeah controllers are 200eur+ | 17:22 |
| pupnik | for a small drone, the sensors probably are DocScrutinizer | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | which sensors? | 17:23 |
| cos^ | you need to interface the acceleration sensors and 4 motor controllers somehow | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 400Hz sampling LIS302? | 17:23 |
| cos^ | and if that "somehow" is usb, it will be too slow | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BS | 17:24 |
| cos^ | in any case you would need quite a lot external hardware | 17:24 |
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| chem|st | even bluetooth is fast enough at 1MB/s | 17:24 |
| cos^ | it's not about bandwidth, it's about response time | 17:24 |
| chem|st | remember apollo12 with 286 12.4 MHz... | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | so tell me: where's that gigantic lag coming from that you seem to suppose is in USB? | 17:25 |
| cos^ | chem|st: and a lot of analog computer power | 17:25 |
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| pupnik | http://cgi.ebay.de/Quadrokopter-Quadrocopter-kpl-Elektronik-Kamera-/270708950928?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item3f0782c790 here's a decent prebuilt | 17:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cos^: sorry, that's just funny, and we got Monday, not Friday. What do you think they are using in ardrone? A Cray? | 17:27 |
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| pupnik | http://cgi.ebay.de/Hexakopter-Mikrokopter-Fotodrohne-Drohne-Hubschrauber-/130488772598?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item1e61bca7f6 | 17:28 |
| cos^ | DocScrutinizer: standard usb servo controllers use 30-50Hz update rate, which is way too little for controlling quadcopter motors | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf, who's talking about standard USB controllers? | 17:29 |
| cos^ | you would need and external hardware which could feed the controllers using i2c at 300-400hz and read the accelerometers | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | (while I dare to question above statement, I can't see why they would restrict their electronics to such low rates) | 17:29 |
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| cos^ | DocScrutinizer: i wouldn't call it "controlling with n900" if there is some advanced custom usb hardware | 17:30 |
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| pupnik | right cos^ | 17:30 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: std serial stuff RS232 goes at 4Hz... | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | read the accelerometers??? WTF? we got a LIS302 on board of N900 | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | USB audio cards do realtime | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | so why can't I control a motor with same rate | 17:31 |
| cos^ | you need to have the feedback loop from accelerometers to speed controllers at 400hz realtime | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | so wjhat? | 17:32 |
| lardman | cos^: you need 400Hz update rate? | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: err wut? | 17:32 |
| lardman | this is for the control loop? Or just to be able to generate the pcm signals? | 17:32 |
| cos^ | LIS302 seems to have SPI aka serial port interface, i doubt it can run at high rate enough | 17:32 |
| chem|st | digital multimeters are all limited to 4Hz, drives me crazy atm | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: nonsense, he thinks he needs that, just because the original hw can do it | 17:33 |
| pupnik | the control loop | 17:33 |
| lardman | s/pcm/pwm | 17:33 |
| chem|st | ?! | 17:33 |
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| pupnik | they want higher rates for better stability | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: not even the motor controller itself is working with a PWM freq much higher than 400Hz | 17:34 |
| cos^ | at lower rates the flight is not stable | 17:34 |
| lardman | docscrutinizer: quite, I was going to say that afaiu even control loops for modern flighters don't run at that rate | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | cos^: then your control algo is shit | 17:34 |
| lardman | or your hw must be very very unstable | 17:34 |
| cos^ | that's why diy quadcopters have rc speed controllers modified to use i2c which allows faster control rates | 17:34 |
| pupnik | here's a modern board http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/arducopter-ng-and-multipilot | 17:35 |
| pupnik | i'd be more interested in that than the mikrokopter guys stuff | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, would anybody care to tell me where from a USB lag is supposed to come from? | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean, USB2.0 is 480MEGA not 400kilo | 17:36 |
| pupnik | yep | 17:36 |
| cos^ | from operating system, application, etc | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS | 17:37 |
| lardman | yeah but there is no hard minimum repsonse time | 17:37 |
| lardman | I don't think | 17:37 |
| cos^ | bandwidth != response rate | 17:37 |
| pupnik | it would be a fun project DocScrutinizer | 17:37 |
| lardman | otoh it's probably fast enough anyway, the response | 17:37 |
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| pupnik | i dunno... :D | 17:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what? to prove USB has a setup time of <10uS and a RTT same maginitude? | 17:38 |
| lardman | hmm, that board generates the pwm signals itself | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I thought as much :-P | 17:38 |
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| pupnik | besides you need gyro + accelerometer | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I know | 17:41 |
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| pupnik | http://www.watterott.com/de/IMU-Digital-Combo-Board-6-Degrees-of-Freedom-ITG3200/ADXL345 | 17:41 |
| lardman | pupnik: the system response is not going to be overly quick, so no real need to read those too fast | 17:41 |
| pupnik | yea | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | the system frequency of such a quad is max, max max 50Hz | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and that'll probably make the thing explode | 17:42 |
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| jatt | how is Elop doing? | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka desintegrate into pieces that fly away all directions | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so a PID regulator system doesn't need any faster rsponse time than that | 17:43 |
| cos^ | there's a quite good explanation in the end of this page http://aeroquad.com/showthread.php?804-Quadcopter-project/page2 | 17:43 |
| cos^ | "In a RC plane this is done at a rate of 50Hz. For multikopters the throttle has to be updated much more frequently to compensate for slight imbalances in thrust, rpms, effect of wind and turbulence, etc. At minimum the rate should be about 200Hz, preferably even faster, around 400Hz." | 17:44 |
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| cos^ | and the updates have to come at the same rate from gyro and other sensors, otherwise it wouldn't make sense | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, not goinf to read that. All my hw projects so far worked with the lil bit of physics and EE knowledge I gathered during education | 17:44 |
| lardman | Bit of a waste speccing up a processor to do the PWM stuff though I'd have thought | 17:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cos^: this is utter BS | 17:45 |
| cos^ | DocScrutinizer: can you find (or make) a quadcopter project that doesn't need fast rate? | 17:46 |
| lardman | I'd be interested to see some Nyquist diagrams to justify that sort of frequency repsonse requirement | 17:46 |
| cos^ | i haven't made my own yet, so i know only what i've found from google | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | cos^: Basically bullshit. | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | cos^: I made dozens of other regulated systems in my life. A quad isn't anything different | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | cos^: The rotors take a large fraction of a second to respond to throttle commands. | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: what I tell all the time, the max freq seen in such a system is 50Hz, mechanically | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you need no regulation that's way faster than the mechanics itself | 17:48 |
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| cos^ | DocScrutinizer: actually that's what i thought first before studying how people make diy quadcopters | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. (for the less physical affine reader) such a quad can not change orientation more than 0.1° in 1/50s | 17:49 |
| cos^ | none of the projects i've found uses standard pwm controllers | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...out of a sudden | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | the acceleration would tear it apart otherwise | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the motors will integrate controler changes - due to shere mass of rotors - so any control faster than 50 new speeds / s are simply lost in an average | 17:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hell, at 400Hz sampling rate the accelerometers will even catch up the noise from rotors and not much else | 17:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you don't want to feed your PID regulator with noise usually -for sure it won't help anything | 17:54 |
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| lardman | cos^: you may find that they don't use normal speed controllers to avoid the extra mass | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | AND EVEN THEN... I am going to watch DVB-T video via the same USB that's doing all that allegedly needed reading and writing @ 400Hz in realtime | 17:56 |
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| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: you enjoy speaking on subjects you have no experience in. Typical programmer hubris :) | 17:58 |
| cos^ | lardman: there are commercial controllers, afaik used mostly for helicopters that can be used. | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ergo: N900 is *perfectly* capable of controlling a drone | 17:58 |
| cos^ | http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/newbie-quadcopter-questions | 17:58 |
| cos^ | "The ESC is chosen with three factors: ability to deliver enough power to the motors (watch for lipo cell counts/voltage and current), its control interface (Arduino can do both PWM and I2C; PWM ESCs are everywhere, I2C ESCs are pricy) and its update rate (the faster you can update the RPMs, the better you can control your rig)." | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: uhuh | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I call myself EE | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm no programmer | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | cos^: what makes you think cos it's written there it is any credible? | 17:59 |
| lardman | cos^: yeah faster up to a limit, so 1Hz is probably insufficient, unless your rig is very stable, etc. | 17:59 |
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| divan | Why preenv launches games via dbus call? Why not directly from .desktop (which has Exec line as well)? | 18:00 |
| cos^ | DocScrutinizer: because i haven't found anyone saying that cheap standard pwm esc is sufficient, use them | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 18:00 |
| cos^ | everyone says you need fast rate or your quadcopter will be unstable | 18:01 |
| lardman | yeah, but you need to define fast | 18:01 |
| pupnik | everyone who actually designs them, that is | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm building my controllers myself, got it? | 18:01 |
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| lardman | I'd guess 10Hz is probably more than enough | 18:02 |
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| cos^ | lardman: 400hz is often mentioned | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I give a flying F* about standard and cheap and I2C and nonsense written in a paper by a marketing droid | 18:02 |
| lardman | as the update rate? As already explained that is far too fast | 18:02 |
| lardman | cos^: as the pwm driving rate, that might be better, as it is some factor of the actual control rate | 18:03 |
| cos^ | i don't think being as fast as possible does harm | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: mever mind. He's trying to convince us we're idiots as we haven't read that page which holds the absolute truth about physics and electronics | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes it does, when you got to MHz | 18:04 |
| lardman | cos^: well yes, but you pay for the faster control of course | 18:04 |
| lardman | hw costs, battery life, etc | 18:04 |
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| cos^ | DocScrutinizer: i just think people on quadcopter forums are more credible | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ther's no such thing like faster control on a motor that needs 0.05s to spin up to nominal speed | 18:05 |
| lardman | cos^: you should ask the questions about motor+rotor response times, etc | 18:06 |
| cos^ | i'd like to quote one more page and then go home http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1388416&page=2 | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | not to all I've seen. Model scene are noobs mostly all of them, with no real clue about physics or EE | 18:06 |
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| cos^ | "2. Our tests indicate that while a quadcopter could fly marginally with standard 50hz PWM, it's simply not possible to achieve a HIGH level of stability with this." | 18:06 |
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| lardman | cos^: interesting, though that also depends on the pid loops | 18:06 |
| lardman | it would be good to see the control system analysis and diagrams | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, now please go home. We got enough quotes of BS today | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | 50Hz PWM does not mean that the ESC will respond at 50Hz | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: forget it, we need to start a 5 day seminar to explain the basics | 18:07 |
| * lardman looks for a book on aircraft control system design, hang on a tick cos^ | 18:08 | |
| lardman | Aircraft control and simulation, Stevens, Brian L., 1939- , is quite interesting | 18:08 |
| lardman | also includes heli design afair | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course the PWM freq will be at some hundered or even 1000s of Hz, That doesn't mean a individual control of of each 0.5mS on-pulse length is needed | 18:09 |
| cos^ | lardman: i think a book about helicopter control system design would be more close, although helicopters have hardware stabilization | 18:09 |
| cos^ | on quadcopters all stabilization is artificial | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Helicopter design has almost no relation. | 18:09 |
| lolcat | What is this discussion? | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | They vary the rotor thrust by varying the rotor pitch, not the rotor RPM. | 18:09 |
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| jacekowski | they vary rpm as well | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH!!!!! how annoying | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | should've left for a nice walk in the sun just befora all this | 18:10 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: control loop design is pretty generic | 18:11 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you can controll motor faster | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet it is. and upper freq in control loop has NOTHING to do with PWM freq | 18:11 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: as in, supply it with a lot higher voltage for 0.01s | 18:11 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: indeed, I'm not saying it's the same by any means, but the requirements of tuning your control system hold true | 18:11 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: high enough to spin it up faster but not high enough to damage insulation | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA | 18:12 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that's how a lot of control systems based on PID work | 18:12 |
| jacekowski | overshoot and then stabilize | 18:12 |
| cos^ | the real rate of the control loop is the rate of slowest component it naturally | 18:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I'm aware of the function principles and design principles of a PID regulator | 18:13 |
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| cos^ | and (as i've read on the internet) on quadcopters it's important to have fast rate. and the rate used in most projects is 400hz. can i go home now? :-) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: still no need to control the motor on a 0.0025s resolution | 18:14 |
| lardman | as long as you find out why they need such a high rate | 18:14 |
| lardman | and report back | 18:15 |
| lardman | http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1388416&page=2 lol @ post 17, from a sales bod | 18:15 |
| lardman | I'd immediately ignore that post I've got to say | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer he doesn't report back, mixing up sample freq with RTT and PWM freq | 18:16 |
| cos^ | ok, it could be a conspiracy made by salesmen and the required rate is much less.. it's the internet | 18:16 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: in some cases you have to | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's mere ignorance, on all involved parties | 18:17 |
| lardman | cos^: See if you can actually find any justification for the high rates, etc., then you can make an informed decision | 18:17 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: but hmm, not at 0.0025 | 18:18 |
| jacekowski | but 0.01 is still reasonable | 18:18 |
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| cos^ | lardman: i haven't found anything more scientific than "it's more stable that way", maybe there's some research pdf i haven't found yet | 18:18 |
| lardman | cos^: well this is the problem with people just building stuff | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, and the initial proposition been "USB is too slow for that" | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA | 18:19 |
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| lardman | cos^: I'd see what the costs are, and try something cheaper and slower first | 18:19 |
| jacekowski | usb has poll time of like 1kHz | 18:19 |
| jacekowski | for HID devices | 18:19 |
| jacekowski | but you can do faster | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | anf any setup time doesn't exist | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least no relevant one for this case | 18:20 |
| jacekowski | but i still wouldn't use usb | 18:20 |
| lardman | cos^: also get one of the books about flight control systems, see what they use for their loop frequencies, which are pretty low, do some research on the response of the motor+rotor combos, which will tell you what update rate you need for those, etc | 18:20 |
| jacekowski | because it's unreliable | 18:20 |
| jacekowski | and connectors are shit | 18:20 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: serial port... | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I would, if I were going to control such a thing by a N900 | 18:21 |
| jacekowski | exactly | 18:21 |
| jacekowski | serial ftw | 18:21 |
| chem|st | \o/ | 18:21 |
| jacekowski | i would use wifi | 18:21 |
| lardman | cos^: when I say get, I mean borrow from a library, as they are very expensive, otoh there's enough online about that anyway | 18:21 |
| chem|st | what I am curious'bout is to guide-by-wifi-signal | 18:22 |
| lardman | chem|st: guidance or all control? | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: Proportional-integral-differential controlles - basics and real life setup | 18:22 |
| chem|st | elab. to triangulate'ish positioning with signal strength of known APs | 18:23 |
| chem|st | lardman: self-controlled | 18:23 |
| lardman | chem|st: ok | 18:23 |
| chem|st | like a patrol-qcopter based on wifi networks all over the city/town | 18:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I want something that flies off to a deserted pylon somewhere, clips on, charges 1Kwh of electricity, flies back, and runs my house for an hour or two. | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 18:24 |
| * lardman is looking at control abstraction to allow control failure and retain generic flight modes | 18:24 | |
| lardman | not for a quad copter though | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | drone hive | 18:24 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: teslas powerOTA would be easier | 18:24 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: sure | 18:24 |
| chem|st | for a watch-my-back drone I would wear a silly coloured hat^^ | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2 months later you got the robopest control ringing your door | 18:25 |
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| lolcat | http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=676023 | 18:26 |
| chem|st | not easy to afford but worth the effort^^ | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | wonder if they're going to use strong RF or tasers | 18:27 |
| chem|st | hehe | 18:27 |
| chem|st | 2c on tasers! | 18:27 |
| lardman | lol "So it's a form of charing that uses no wires, but it's not wireless charging. That's a totally different thing." | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply block the door and pack every robodrone at SpeedEvil's attic into a sack | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: That's why they have pop-out sawblades. | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eeeeek | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should send them to next robowars contest | 18:29 |
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| lardman | cu later chaps | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NBIksIzRuQ | 18:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flying drone with sawblade would bring fun to that | 18:53 |
| jacekowski | i was thinking about building something like that | 18:54 |
| jacekowski | but i don't know how to power it | 18:54 |
| jacekowski | because 10 minutes of flight is not enough | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nuklear | 18:54 |
| jacekowski | too heavy | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | cold fusion | 18:55 |
| jacekowski | even heavier | 18:55 |
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| jacekowski | yet | 18:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heard all you need is a glass of tritium water and two lithium electrodes or somesuch nonsense :-P | 18:56 |
| jacekowski | water is heavy | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | extraheavy here XP | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | heavy is deuterium | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | trirum is extraheavy | 18:57 |
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| jacekowski | i have tritium keychain | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | nuclear keychain | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | me too :-D | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | i have 3 of them | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | me too :D | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | fuck | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> Please leave us the infarmation: 1) Your Name | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> Education it’s important! It’s time for your education! | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 19:00 |
| kerio | tritium keychain? :< | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | TGL | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | glolite | 19:02 |
| BCMM | presumably, a sealed tritium light on a keychain | 19:03 |
| BCMM | you can use tritium for lights; like radium once was, but much safer | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.edelight.de/i/nite-glowring-green-von-jmb | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.niteglowrings.com/ actually | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | I hate myself | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | i failed my theoritcal driving test (signs and such) twice, just because i changed the answer at the end | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | (it was correct before i changed it) | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | too much effort. I passed by simply reading the educational papers once, 2 days before test, then just trying to fill in as fast as possible, with no thoughts about passing | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc I had 2 false, 3 were allowed. Was the first one to leave the test room | 19:14 |
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| pupnik_ | Richard Garriot (of Ultima RPGs) spent most of his fortune to visit the International Space Station - "Garriott wanted to go online when he was in the space station, but he found out it would cost $300,000 to send the first byte of information." http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/02/lord-british-wants-to-take-you-to-space-and-hes-closer-than-you-think.ars/ | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | please help me out - where's the user specific part of .desktop files? It looks like there's only systemwide .desktop for desktop/applauncher, in /usr/share/applications/hildon | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I have a hard time to believe there's no per-user config for available apps in applauncher | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | ~/.local/share/applications/hildon/ | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | to explain a bit: if ever I get to manage proper login for multiple users, then I don't want to have them share one desktop, esp with special settings like x-maemo-preload which has to go to .desktop to start an app on X startup | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: thanks, but still not a per-user thing | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a per-system thing | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | but ~ is your home? | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 19:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you.re right | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | np :P | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | though i'm not sure how that'd work on maemo, only "user" and "root" exist | 19:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | missed the ~ - many thanks | 19:31 |
| MohammadAG | h-d runs as user | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually also missed the . | 19:31 |
| MohammadAG | yw | 19:32 |
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| MohammadAG | I wouldn't have known about it if there wasn't a bug about it | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | hildon-home doesn't look in that directory, even in 1.3 | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | fixed in CSSU | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | hildon-desktop works fine though | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | since 1.1, javispedro should know | 19:32 |
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| Texrat | hola | 19:34 |
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| MohammadAG | hey Texrat | 19:35 |
| Texrat | MohammadAG my man | 19:35 |
| Texrat | hardest working guy in maemo | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG | Others work harder than I do, I assure you :P | 19:36 |
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| Texrat | well MohammedAG no one can argue with your effectiveness ;) | 19:40 |
| villager | Texrat: are you sure? | 19:41 |
| Texrat | ok villager let me change CAN to SHOULD | 19:41 |
| Texrat | :P | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | shite, ~/.local/share/hildon/*.desktop doesn't work it seems | 19:41 |
| MohammadAG | not on 1.1 :p | 19:41 |
| Texrat | hey DocScrutinizer | 19:41 |
| MohammadAG | get the latest hildon-desktop | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | hey Texrat | 19:42 |
| thp | DocScrutinizer: shouldn't it be ~/.local/share/applications/hildon/*.desktop ? | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 19:43 |
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| MohammadAG | thp, doesn't change the fact it's broken on 1.1 (that's what he's on iirc) | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually there's still been an icon in applauncher, but the x-maemo-preload=1 failed. Might be unrelated | 19:44 |
| thp | (ideally, without the "hildon/" as well to fdo alignment, but that's another of these bad maemoisms) | 19:44 |
| villager | Texrat: well, from what I've seen, he does work hard, but he's far from a great software engineer, so it can be argue that he's not as effective as many other maemo devs | 19:44 |
| Texrat | feh | 19:44 |
| thp | bug 1303 and bug 3817 | 19:45 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1303 Hildon does not follow freedesktop.org standard, ignores ~/.local/share/applications | 19:45 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/3817 All .desktop files should go to /usr/share/applications/ (deprecate use of /usr/share/applications/hildon/) | 19:45 |
| Texrat | hey thp | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it fails as well in /usr/share/appl*/hildon | 19:45 |
| thp | Texrat: hey | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | villager, thanks :p | 19:45 |
| Texrat | MohammedAG I give you props for project management skills ;) | 19:45 |
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| villager | Texrat: that I won't argue with | 19:47 |
| MohammadAG | Texrat, thanks :) | 19:48 |
| villager | maemo has much use for good project management | 19:48 |
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| MohammadAG | though I have a school project, so I haven't been very active the last two months | 19:49 |
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| MohammadAG | it's for Maemo/MeeGo/ubuntu | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | and when Qt Mobility's out, Symbian/Mac/Windows | 19:50 |
| MohammadAG | should be useful @ uni | 19:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MEH! xchat doesn't autostart. Seems I got sth wrong about X-Maemo-Prestarted and X-Maemo-Prestarted-Priority | 19:51 |
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| MohammadAG | that doesn't work for normal bins I think | 19:52 |
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| MohammadAG | only .launch ones (with maemo-launcher) | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, why? | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 19:52 |
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| Texrat | villager sorry for being unclear... project management was what I meant in the firs place ;) | 19:52 |
| Texrat | pupnik!!!! | 19:52 |
| pupnik | hi Texrat | 19:53 |
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| Texrat | how are you doing? | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | Texrat, I guess you were around a lot more before I joined? :) | 19:53 |
| pupnik | yes he was | 19:53 |
| Texrat | heh | 19:53 |
| Texrat | the first Nokian! | 19:53 |
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| pupnik | a good time was had | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | you were a Nokian? | 19:54 |
| Texrat | oh yes... sigh | 19:54 |
| Texrat | yes MohammedAG. I was the product engineer on N800 launch | 19:54 |
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| MohammadAG | heh, didn't know that | 19:54 |
| Texrat | those 200 shown at 2007 CES were sent by me :) | 19:54 |
| Texrat | yep, I handled factory QA on 770 and N800 | 19:55 |
| MohammadAG | I always though maemo was a proprietary java-based OS | 19:55 |
| MohammadAG | never really read about it, was stuck to symbian | 19:55 |
| Texrat | ack! lol | 19:55 |
| pupnik | i just bought an E71 and E72 to play with for a while | 19:55 |
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| MohammadAG | and everytime I wanted to start developing on it, I'd give up | 19:55 |
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| Texrat | I really like the E71 | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Texrat: so you got nice new product babies now? | 19:56 |
| MohammadAG | Carbide C++ isn't easy | 19:56 |
| Texrat | lol DocScrutinizer51-- at one point I had about 15 or so N800s to hand out | 19:56 |
| pupnik | Texrat: indeed - it does the things you need and it lasts a long time, and it's beautifully built. | 19:56 |
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| Texrat | my kids still have their N800s and use them now and then | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Texrat: nah. no N800 | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | NEW babies | 19:57 |
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| Texrat | I have not been with Nokia for 2 years :( | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | K50000 with lazors | 19:58 |
| slonopotamus | okay. anyone knows a good replacement for n900? :) it is almost ok except for battery lifetime and fcking microusb connector | 19:58 |
| Texrat | working a reallyshitty job until I find something better | 19:58 |
| E0x | after 1.3 the battery lifetime improve a lot | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Texrat: :'( | 19:58 |
| Texrat | slonopotamus I am about ready to fix the broken microUSB on one of mine ;) | 19:58 |
| Texrat | going to be a pain, but worth it | 19:59 |
| slonopotamus | Texrat: mine was repaired three times already. next time ETA is 2 months | 19:59 |
| Texrat | geez | 19:59 |
| Texrat | well, no warranty on mine | 19:59 |
| MohammadAG | mine never broke | 19:59 |
| MohammadAG | I got rid of the warranty two months after i got it | 20:00 |
| E0x | mine never broke too , almost a year so far | 20:00 |
| MohammadAG | disassembled a part on it | 20:00 |
| slonopotamus | and don't tell me i'm using it wrong | 20:00 |
| MohammadAG | 1 year and 3 months | 20:00 |
| MohammadAG | slonopotamus, we're not good ol' Steve Jobs | 20:00 |
| E0x | heh | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | slonopotamus: ok. ItMs built wrong for your usage pattern :-) | 20:01 |
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| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer51: that's why i'm asking about a replacement :) | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | alas there's none I know of | 20:02 |
| slonopotamus | on the other hand, my n800 is ~3yo already. and the only degrading part is screen (stylus trails) | 20:02 |
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| slonopotamus | well, and four broken chargers :) they don't survive a single fall when plugged in n800 | 20:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, this N810 is as old and had frequent reboots until recently | 20:03 |
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| Texrat | it's no user's fault whn microUSB breaks | 20:04 |
| Texrat | I'm more amazed by the success stories | 20:04 |
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| MohammadAG | I still feel mine will break, someday | 20:05 |
| Texrat | field failure rate now around 18%, and that doesn't count failures that happened after poll entry | 20:05 |
| Texrat | that's a scary number | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I'm still not too afraid, except for mistreatment when device sits on mattres | 20:06 |
| Texrat | when I was in QA at Nokia, we had < 3% field failure rate on devices | 20:06 |
| njsf | Mine took ~1 year to fail | 20:06 |
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| Texrat | that's actually the worst njsf | 20:07 |
| njsf | service quickly sent a replacement unit | 20:07 |
| Texrat | raight around warranty limit | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Texrat: scaty indeed | 20:07 |
| njsf | it was ~1 week under | 20:07 |
| Texrat | wow | 20:07 |
| MohammadAG | I'm surprised my screen protector's torn | 20:07 |
| Texrat | lol | 20:07 |
| MohammadAG | on the outside my device looks new | 20:07 |
| njsf | I am seriously considering the epoxy hack to secure the connector better | 20:08 |
| MohammadAG | though the back has a small sliver colour showing | 20:08 |
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| njsf | is that a bad thing under the temps the N900 may get ? | 20:08 |
| * luke-jr wonders if he even has a warranty | 20:08 | |
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| MohammadAG | looks like scratched paint from the slider mech | 20:08 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: HTC Merge looks half-decent | 20:09 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: btw, once again, GITHUB SUCKS | 20:09 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr: android :/ | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | I need to look at MafwPlaylistManager again | 20:09 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: I would think you can install Gentoo | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | it's the only part missing for the mediaplayer rewrite | 20:09 |
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| njsf | I actually was surprised because mine broke on Dec 16, but I had a whole lot of stuff not backed up and rsync over ssh took more than one battery charge so while I got another phone (G2 actually) I started the hunt for an extra battery and external charger... only sent the device at end of Jan, which would be after warranty ended, but since I made the service request on the site which verified warranty all was good | 20:10 |
| njsf | also took advantage of the 200 off HP is now giving developers | 20:11 |
| njsf | so now I have Maemo, Android and webOS to compare | 20:11 |
| njsf | beside the ipod touch too | 20:11 |
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| njsf | of all the fluidity on the webOS is the one that pleases me the most | 20:12 |
| njsf | too bad the screen is just tiny and low res | 20:12 |
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| njsf | and the slide up keyboard puts the pre2 in a top heavy position, really uncomfortable for typing | 20:13 |
| njsf | at least thumb typing | 20:13 |
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| njsf | still my main phone is the N900 | 20:14 |
| MohammadAG | fluidity goes to iOS for me | 20:14 |
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| njsf | I get turned off by the back and done / edit at the top | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ot hard to get smooth anim on a lowres screen | 20:15 |
| njsf | the gesture zone on the Pre seems more fluid to me | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not* | 20:16 |
| njsf | well I was thinking more of the touch experience, but I see your point | 20:16 |
| njsf | even though "should" just be a matter of more CPU horsepower | 20:16 |
| njsf | the cpu on the pre2 is a bit underpowered | 20:17 |
| javispedro | I find that funny to say considering that CPU would have been the one the N9 was rumoured to have =) | 20:18 |
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| njsf | ah you're right I confused with the Pre2 cpu | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG! X-Maemo-Prestarted=always | 20:20 |
| njsf | but I guess one could say that even that 1ghz ARM is underpowered for all the javascript driven opengl :D | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's what I call a strange boolean | 20:20 |
| njsf | It's beyond fuzzy logic LOL | 20:20 |
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| javispedro | njsf: =) (though actually they drive OpenGL either using Qt or SDL, so it's not technically correct) | 20:21 |
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| njsf | SDL I think, but what I meant was that all the UI widgets are mostly driven through JS and HTML rendering | 20:24 |
| njsf | sorry for the inacurate terminology | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | TADAAAAA BINGO | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: it works with xchat as well. | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG | cool | 20:28 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: prestarting xchat? | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | so probably does with arbitrary binaries | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: sure | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Maemo-Prestarted=always | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Maemo-Prestarted-Priority=3000 | 20:28 |
| javispedro | I figured that would only work with maemo-launcher binaries? | 20:29 |
| javispedro | I mean -- does it start and show the UI then? | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 20:29 |
| javispedro | well, I guess it covers a usecase =) | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG | so, why do we need maemo-launcher again? | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG | it only ruins starting apps from a shell | 20:29 |
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| javispedro | use maemo-summoner | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: .launcher binaries never get started directly. they all have a "basename binary" which is a symlink to maemo-launcher | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | or whatever that is called | 20:30 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yes, but prestart usually doesn't cause the binary to show UI, and I wondered how that did work. | 20:30 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, maemo-summoner: opening of /usr/bin/image-viewer.launch took 586578 usec | 20:30 |
| MohammadAG | it didn't launch :p | 20:30 |
| javispedro | I think MohammadAG's comments are answering my question. | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'd guess that's a property of the binary, not of the starting process | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, what can I say... I haven't clicked to startk this xchat after boot | 20:32 |
| javispedro | image-viewer, etc. when exec() will just wait there for the dbus message I guess. | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | just prio=5000 takes like 3 min to finally start it | 20:32 |
| lolcat | When will we have quad core N-series phones? | 20:33 |
| javispedro | I already have one. I use my single core to emulate a quad core x86 phone =) | 20:33 |
| lolcat | javispedro: Really? | 20:33 |
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| MohammadAG | Quad Core ARMs aren't out till December or so | 20:34 |
| MohammadAG | track Sony's NGP (Next-Gen PSP) | 20:34 |
| norayr | hey people, how to identify n810 wimax edition? | 20:34 |
| mece | oo this someplayer looks shiny! | 20:34 |
| norayr | I have one in my hands and I suspect this one supports wimax | 20:34 |
| norayr | hm? | 20:34 |
| E0x | not all n8100 come with wimax ? | 20:35 |
| mece | no | 20:35 |
| norayr | no, mine is not | 20:35 |
| norayr | but one I hold now | 20:35 |
| lolcat | MohammadAG: Will they be used in phones? | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | of course, when is something no one knows | 20:35 |
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| lolcat | MohammadAG: Elop knows! | 20:36 |
| lolcat | All the bloat in Windows Mobile surley needs more hardware :P | 20:36 |
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| MohammadAG | well | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | it needs a core to do copy and paste | 20:37 |
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| norayr | I guess I found it http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30354 | 20:38 |
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| lolcat | How do I undervolt my phone? | 20:43 |
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| tarantism_ | qt | 20:48 |
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| javispedro | http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/new-high-priority-project-powervr-drivers | 21:06 |
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| ruskie | javispedro, hmm that sounds nice | 21:07 |
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| _0x471 | Hey, I remember there once was a package which one could add as a build dependency to optify all files > 500k automatically. But I can't find it any more. Anyone knows what I mean? | 21:25 |
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| lardman | anyone had any success using versit + qtm 1.2 to add calendar events? | 21:26 |
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| _0x471 | o never mind, just found it | 21:26 |
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| pupnik | "In truth the only way to reduce corruption in high places is to have less high places." - Perry de Haviland | 21:28 |
| pupnik | what's it called _0x471 ? | 21:28 |
| lardman | pupnik: s/less/fewer ? | 21:29 |
| _0x471 | pupnik: maemo-optify | 21:29 |
| _0x471 | it's a bit different tho | 21:29 |
| pupnik | i guess so lardman | 21:29 |
| _0x471 | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify/blobs/master/README | 21:29 |
| pupnik | ty | 21:29 |
| _0x471 | np | 21:29 |
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| pupnik | btw got mpg123 on n900 but no EQ yet | 21:30 |
| javispedro | pupnik: on tmo there's a new gstreamer+pulse based mediaplayer with eq | 21:30 |
| pupnik | javispedro: yes but that's not why i want eq - i want a low-cpu decoder bypassing pulse and dropping low freqs | 21:31 |
| javispedro | this time make sure you buy replacement speakers first =) | 21:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mehehe | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: what means "no EQ"? Doesn't work? Or left out of binary by compile option? OR simply no idea yet how to control it? | 21:34 |
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| pupnik | he didn't hack it to use the eq | 21:39 |
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| pupnik | attack of the 50 foot woman... "with incredible desires for love... and vengeance" | 21:40 |
| divan | How long bugreports.qt.nokia.com is down? | 21:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | elop set fire to it. | 21:42 |
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| javispedro | elop, in a shuttleworth-moment of egomaniacal tendencies, decided that qt bugzilla is not back up until bug #1 is "Windows Presentation Foundation has not 100% of developer market share" | 21:44 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1 test - ignore it | 21:44 |
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| RST38h | heya javispedro | 21:45 |
| javispedro | hello RST38h | 21:45 |
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| pupnik | http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/world/26gates.html [ Gates' Warning Against Wars Like Iraq and Afghanistan in speech at West Point ] | 21:47 |
| RST38h | which gates? | 21:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | In other news, Tony Blair warns against windows 7. | 21:48 |
| pupnik | Secretary of Defense, on his way out | 21:49 |
| * javispedro has one of those moments where one sadly realizes the amount of sw bloat | 21:50 | |
| RST38h | pupnik: "on his way out" is the key phrase | 21:50 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Android SDK? | 21:51 |
| javispedro | no, actually, n900. | 21:51 |
| javispedro | so I'm watching winamp do gapless playback, which wouldn't be surprising if.. | 21:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | it wasn't running under qemu on the n900? | 21:52 |
| javispedro | I wasn't compiling something in the background with 8 threads, while running windows under a VM, while typing here on XChat, running Winamp under Wine, the Winamp output plugin being DSound, sound being forwarded ->Wine DSound->ALSA, | 21:52 |
| javispedro | and the input plugin being basically a full 32 bit console bit emulator being started and stopped on every track change. | 21:53 |
| javispedro | and NO buffering at all. | 21:53 |
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| javispedro | yet, if I want to do gapless playback of a few wavs on the N900 media player.... | 21:53 |
| RST38h | javispedro: You are notdoing it all on an N900, right? | 21:54 |
| javispedro | nope, but gstreamer can't do gapless playback without buffering here either. | 21:54 |
| pupnik | 'gapless' doesn't mean 'no skips'. | 21:54 |
| RST38h | N900 media player will do gapless playback just fine, unless the OS decides to raise some Cthulhu-like app from its slumber in the swap | 21:55 |
| pupnik | 'gapless' means 'no skip between tracks' | 21:55 |
| javispedro | pupnik: and that's exactly what I mean. | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Modest is the usual culprit | 21:55 |
| pupnik | that's not a performance issue, that's a design decision | 21:55 |
| pupnik | you're talking about system load, which means you're talking about dropouts in playback | 21:55 |
| javispedro | pupnik: it's when it's a design decision when it's a problem. | 21:55 |
| RST38h | I do suspect he means no skipping though | 21:55 |
| javispedro | no, I mean between tracks. | 21:56 |
| pupnik | oh ok | 21:56 |
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| RST38h | then it is indeed notrelated to performance | 21:56 |
| javispedro | it is if you do not do any kind of prebuffering | 21:56 |
| RST38h | also, x86 hardware is much faster than OMAP3 with its little cheap peripherals,on the average | 21:57 |
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| javispedro | aka start reading the next track moments before the current one ends, which is how gstreamer implements gapless. | 21:57 |
| pupnik | yeah ok | 21:57 |
| RST38h | can't it be added to n900 gstreamer though? | 21:57 |
| RST38h | theplayer still uses gstreamer, right? | 21:57 |
| javispedro | yep. | 21:57 |
| javispedro | it's just that I'm impressed that winamp manages to do it without prebuffering even with the amount of crap I'm trowing at it | 21:58 |
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| javispedro | (and yes I'm sure, as I'm coding the input plugin atm) | 21:58 |
| javispedro | and yet GStreamer takes a whopping second to switch tracks because it has to rebuild whatever pipelines or sth. | 21:58 |
| RST38h | same hw? | 21:59 |
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| javispedro | nope | 22:00 |
| alterego | javispedro: I think you can get around that with some kind of a proxy setup. | 22:00 |
| alterego | Anyhow, brb. | 22:00 |
| RST38h | see? | 22:00 |
| RST38h | javispedro: BTW http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/linuxaudio.png | 22:01 |
| javispedro | heh | 22:01 |
| javispedro | well, that plot is a bit untrue though. | 22:01 |
| RST38h | That is what a clusterfuck looks like | 22:01 |
| javispedro | where you to draw a similar for windows, you'll have to put stuff like FMOD in there | 22:01 |
| javispedro | so I'm sure it would eventually look as much as a mess or even more than that one. | 22:02 |
| RST38h | javispedro: no problem, I would even put sdl | 22:02 |
| RST38h | javispedro: will look less | 22:02 |
| javispedro | true, will look more pyramidal at least =) | 22:02 |
| RST38h | javispedro: At the lower level, you have got waveOut, midiOut, and DirectSound | 22:03 |
| derf | The actual important metric, at least to me, is context switches. | 22:03 |
| RST38h | javispedro: next layer, codecs | 22:03 |
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| derf | "How many processes does my audio have to bounce through before it actually plays?" | 22:03 |
| RST38h | javispedro: DS may have its separate codec stack there, dunno | 22:03 |
| RST38h | javispedro: parallel with codecs, FMOD,SDL, etc | 22:04 |
| pupnik | i love winamp... it is rocksolid | 22:04 |
| RST38h | javispedro: And that is about it. Nice and straight. | 22:04 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Actually, BSD sound looks like that too | 22:04 |
| * javispedro puts PulseAudio in RST38's "nice" Windows Audio Mess plot | 22:04 | |
| javispedro | (cause it's been ported, you know =) ) | 22:04 |
| RST38h | javispedro: No PulseAudio in Windows,screwit | 22:04 |
| RST38h | Lots of things have beenported | 22:04 |
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| derf | RST38h: You're forgetting WMF. | 22:05 |
| derf | And ASIO. | 22:05 |
| javispedro | and OpenAL, if you have a Ctx card | 22:05 |
| javispedro | (otherwise it very probably just talks to Dsound) | 22:05 |
| RST38h | derf: WMF as in windows metafile? and ASIO as in asychnronous io? | 22:05 |
| RST38h | derf: Neither is audio | 22:05 |
| javispedro | media foundation (gstreamer -like thing) | 22:05 |
| derf | Windows Media Foundation. | 22:06 |
| javispedro | ^^= wmf | 22:06 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Ok, put OpenAL in | 22:06 |
| derf | They're replacing DirectSound. | 22:06 |
| RST38h | derf: Ah that, I have it | 22:06 |
| RST38h | derf: "codecs" | 22:06 |
| derf | ASIO is Advanced Steinberg IO, or something. | 22:06 |
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| RST38h | ASIO I do not know | 22:06 |
| APTX | actually gstreamer is a DS like thing | 22:06 |
| derf | Basically, what you need for low-latency direct hardware access in Windows. | 22:06 |
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| RST38h | In BSD (and any real Unix) it would be: /dev/dsp, dev/midi, dev/audio (compatibility) at the bottom | 22:07 |
| RST38h | bunch of codec device at the next layer | 22:07 |
| RST38h | some app libraries at the next layer | 22:08 |
| RST38h | s/device/devices | 22:08 |
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| * javispedro ends the sad violins, goes back to coding in a high level interpreted language, like python. | 22:10 | |
| * RST38h cackles at the mention of python | 22:10 | |
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| ShadowJK | wtf, how did I manage this | 22:16 |
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| ShadowJK | xterminal is autorotating into portrait | 22:16 |
| ShadowJK | wtf, xchat too | 22:17 |
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| kerio | yay python | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | but not the browser | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | ah, ctrl-shift-r | 22:18 |
| * ShadowJK didn't know | 22:19 | |
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| _0x471 | is there an upload limit to the autobuilder? | 22:22 |
| _0x471 | I get errors all the time | 22:22 |
| _0x471 | File upload error. (tar file) Please try to upload your packages again! | 22:22 |
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| pupnik | mwaha the massively abused n900 is up to 111 euro http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110652647537&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT | 22:54 |
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| _0x471 | anyone? | 23:02 |
| _0x471 | dput doesn't seem to work either | 23:02 |
| pupnik | _0x471: wish i could help | 23:03 |
| pupnik | what are you working on? | 23:03 |
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| _0x471 | still the retarded mono package | 23:04 |
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| pupnik | _0x471: i recall dput being the one that worked for me. i also had problems | 23:15 |
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| _0x471 | pupnik: I'm currently rebuilding the sources to be sure there is no problem on my side. I then try both, website and dput, again... | 23:20 |
| _0x471 | dput working now :) but i suppose it was something with my key before | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mono? screwit | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 23:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 23:28 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:28 |
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| v3rse | I need help!!! | 23:28 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 too!!! | 23:28 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | are you young and female? | 23:29 |
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| v3rse | young but not female sorry | 23:29 |
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| v3rse | well my problem is that whenever i start up the maemo emulator it say this first:Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname! | 23:32 |
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| v3rse | Sample files present. | 23:32 |
| v3rse | /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 37: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory | 23:32 |
| v3rse | /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 1: export: `40:': not a valid identifier | 23:32 |
| v3rse | someone please help me!!!! | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, nevertheless: what's ypur problem? | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | your* | 23:33 |
| v3rse | scratchbox gives me a long list if errors when i launch the emulator\ | 23:34 |
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| Sc0rpius | emulator? | 23:36 |
| pupnik | hi v3rse i'm trying to guess what the problem is | 23:36 |
| Sc0rpius | ok first: are you sure you are in x86 mode? | 23:36 |
| Sc0rpius | 99% people that come to this channel with scratchbox problems is because they are trying to run af-sb-init in ARMEL | 23:36 |
| v3rse | yeah i'm sure | 23:36 |
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| v3rse | i think it's because i didn't shut it down properly | 23:37 |
| pupnik | was it working before? | 23:38 |
| v3rse | yh it was | 23:38 |
| Sc0rpius | well your first problem, the X problem, is because your DISPLAY variable should be localhost:2 | 23:38 |
| Sc0rpius | now if you're missing scratchbox-launcher.sh... it seems you messed up with the installation | 23:38 |
| Sc0rpius | I would install the whole SDK again. | 23:38 |
| v3rse | this would be the third time i'd do this | 23:39 |
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| v3rse | where i come from internet time is limited, so is bandwidth | 23:40 |
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| v3rse | well thanks guys but i'd wish there'd be an alternative solution | 23:43 |
| piggz | Sc0rpius: ah...the first time i started with sb, i radn af-sb-init in armel :) | 23:44 |
| * piggz reccomends the sb virtual box image from kde | 23:44 | |
| v3rse | umm piggz wats that? | 23:45 |
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| piggz | http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Mobile/MaemoVM | 23:47 |
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| Sc0rpius | heh piggz | 23:51 |
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| _0x471 | ~ping | 23:53 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:53 |
| _0x471 | ~ping | 23:53 |
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| _0x471 | ~ping | 23:53 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:53 |
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| _0x471 | hehehe | 23:53 |
| _0x471 | guess i'm gonna do this all day | 23:53 |
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| v3rse | thanks guys i'm out | 23:54 |
| v3rse | will take me a while to download the vm | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~pong | 23:56 |
| infobot | ~ping | 23:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ding | 23:57 |
| infobot | dong | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~botsnack | 23:57 |
| infobot | :), DocScrutinizer51 | 23:57 |
| _0x471 | DocScrutinizer51: cheater | 23:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~rape _0x471 | 23:59 |
| * infobot takes _0x471 behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams | 23:59 | |
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