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| timeless | Jaffa: has anyone agreed to transfer dns? | 00:02 |
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| newbie007 | is there any chance that some maemo guru out there is also interested in getting maemo on to a nook color? | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Impossible. | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Large slices of the stack are binary only. | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | You want #meego | 00:11 |
| newbie007 | I thought maybe since the architure seems similar... | 00:12 |
| newbie007 | I'll go ask though, thanks | 00:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - it's pirated, if you did that. | 00:12 |
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| newbie007 | I don't think I broke any always | 00:12 |
| newbie007 | *any laws | 00:12 |
| newbie007 | I just don't want to use Android,, it's so creep | 00:13 |
| newbie007 | creepy | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | No, I mean, you would break laws if you did. | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | As maemo includes closed source bits only licenced to run ont he n900 | 00:13 |
| newbie007 | my understanding is that the closed bits are for the screen | 00:13 |
| newbie007 | which would be different anyway | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | No, maemo has enormous amount of closed stuff. | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ~closed | 00:14 |
| infobot | methinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages | 00:14 |
| newbie007 | what I want is an OS I trust and the repos | 00:14 |
| newbie007 | I see | 00:14 |
| newbie007 | thanks! | 00:14 |
| MohammadAG | the touchscreen driver (for ts input anyway) is open | 00:15 |
| MohammadAG | tsc2005.c | 00:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yawn | 00:54 |
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| Aranel | I need to ask a couple of questions to someone interested in/responsible of rtcom-messaging-ui about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11559, suggestions anyone? | 00:58 |
| povbot | Bug 11559: Conversations App - Scrollbar Appeared, Touch Scrolling Does Not Work | 00:58 |
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| * Aranel :| I'm trying to get help about this thing for at least a month. How about a little bounty? (keep in mind I'm a poor guy): buy you a beer via paypal? gift you latest pack of Angry Birds? Document a very boring stuff on Maemo Wiki? Please? | 01:05 | |
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| Venemo | guys, I'm not a PulseAudio hater, but I'd like to know why it needs 20% of my CPU on my Fedora laptop | 01:14 |
| norayr | Venemo: I do not really understand why people like wrappers like PA. I never use sound wrappers. Luckily I assemble systems for myself (gentoo) and always exclude wrappers like that | 01:15 |
| norayr | And if five-six years ago there were problems with playing back with two or more applications simultaneously | 01:16 |
| Venemo | norayr: understandable | 01:16 |
| norayr | then for several years I do not notice such problems at all | 01:16 |
| norayr | Which means ALSA is enough :) | 01:16 |
| Venemo | hehe | 01:16 |
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| norayr | :) | 01:17 |
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| norayr | And I dissapointed in Fedora many years ago. I respect RedHat for what they're doing - but it's better to use it in Debian or Gentoo, not in RHEL or Fedora. RHEL is ok though, if not for desktop. :) | 01:18 |
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| Venemo | norayr: well I don't really sympathize with Debian - I haven't tried Gentoo yet | 01:19 |
| Venemo | norayr: in Fedora, I usually manage to get everything working OOB, or after some messing around | 01:19 |
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| budfive | pulse is great if you want to have network sound | 01:20 |
| norayr | Venemo: what's OOB ? | 01:20 |
| norayr | ok, understand - out of the box | 01:20 |
| norayr | :) | 01:20 |
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| budfive | I have a server that runs pulse and has speakers connected to it. Other machines can send sound to it from anywhere | 01:20 |
| norayr | For me - it's slow, I need to remove a lot of oob services :) | 01:21 |
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| norayr | okay, let's not turn maemo channel into the holy war :) | 01:21 |
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| norayr | budfive: that's nice I didn't know about it. | 01:22 |
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| norayr | budfive: It would be better though if we had plan9 like system where we can mount sound device via network | 01:22 |
| norayr | and use it :) | 01:22 |
| Venemo | norayr: I once saw a graph about all the Linux sound systems... it was chaos | 01:24 |
| nox- | sounds like this one: http://matt.bottrell.com.au/uploads/Pics/linuxaudio.png | 01:25 |
| Venemo | nox-: yes, that's it | 01:25 |
| * nox- <3 freebsd's oss `rewrite' where you rarely ever need `sound daemons'... | 01:27 | |
| nox- | with in-kernel mixing and per-app volume control... | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | budfive: that's a nice niche usecase for PA - I'm not convinced I need to have it hog my CPU like Venemo said and PA is notorious for. I'm all on same page as norayr | 01:30 |
| norayr | very nice diagram | 01:31 |
| norayr | thanks :) | 01:31 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: seems that the app I was running (EVE Online under Wine) caused it to hog my CPU. just sayin' because normally it doesn't do so | 01:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I had nothing but problems with PA, and it's a mess and not delivering on any of the maybe madeup problems it's supposed to tackle | 01:32 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I get your point | 01:33 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: and I dunno why we need yet another audio wrapper | 01:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for example everybody says "ALSA can't mix" - I answer "DMIX". Then "yeah but that doesn't work" - me: "here it does, and ever did". Then "but PA is better documented" - me: "where?".. this is an endless fruitless debate | 01:34 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: yeah... | 01:34 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: another endless debate is Gnome vs KDE vs Xfce vs ... etc | 01:34 |
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| jacekowski | KDE FTW | 01:35 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well, mixing in kernel would be nice | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just can say I recently learnt to watch out for "author: Lennart" | 01:35 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: who's that? | 01:36 |
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| jacekowski | and per app volume | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | devel of abominations like PA and avahi | 01:36 |
| Venemo | hehe | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ALSA *has* per app volume, seamlessly, since ages | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: what where? | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | when | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | how | 01:37 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, someone once said linux ppl tend to write the nth new implementation of something instead of fixing the existing one... | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | google for alsa softvol plugin | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: sounds about right | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | nox-: yeah, | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | alsa | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | xorg | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | with kms | 01:38 |
| nox- | another example is ifconfig vs iwconfig vs ip | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | nox-: these are 3 separate tools | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | iwconfig is for wireless | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | and just wireless aspect of it | 01:38 |
| nox- | yeah well on freebsd ifconfig knows about wifi too | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/1731 | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | well, linux ifconfig does wired only | 01:38 |
| ShadowJK | I'd written a new implementation too, I'm starting to think alsa is unfixable :) | 01:38 |
| ieatlint | oooh, rumour has it qt is going to be part of webos | 01:38 |
| nox- | jacekowski, and thats what i meant :) | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | and iwconfig is wireless | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | that's just design decision | 01:39 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: it is already, afaik | 01:39 |
| nox- | ok ill stop :) | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | what was messed up was oss/alsa/pa | 01:39 |
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| ieatlint | Venemo: and nokia was stupid enough to go with wp7.... | 01:39 |
| ieatlint | not to start up the conversation again... sorry | 01:40 |
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| Venemo | ieatlint: this decision from them was horseshit | 01:40 |
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| jacekowski | ieatlint: where else would they go | 01:40 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: although I tend to believe that it's a sort of temporary thing until MeeGo becomes really ready | 01:40 |
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| jacekowski | ieatlint: symbian would take them only to insolvency | 01:40 |
| ieatlint | jacekowski: webos | 01:40 |
| ieatlint | which was my implication | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | is webos even open | 01:41 |
| ieatlint | and yeah, symbian has been a dying platform for years | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | as in, hp is willing to be friendly | 01:41 |
| ieatlint | yep | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | hmm | 01:41 |
| ieatlint | hp and nokia are already business partners over qt | 01:41 |
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| ieatlint | webos was a natural fit | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | but there was something strange about webos | 01:42 |
| ieatlint | open, a development community already in place, qt support.. | 01:42 |
| dschoepe | Wikipedia says webos is mostly closed though | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | does it have X? | 01:42 |
| ieatlint | i don't think so | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | that's a problem | 01:42 |
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| ieatlint | but it has an sdl interface, and i'm told you can run qt apps on it | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 01:42 |
| ieatlint | well, wp7 doesn't have x.. neither does symbian | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | yeah but symbian display interface doesn't suck as much as sdl | 01:43 |
| ieatlint | webos would've kept things in play though.. including hardware support | 01:43 |
| ieatlint | linux kernel for webos, linux kernel for meego | 01:43 |
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| ieatlint | would've been a much clearer stepping stone to meego... of course meego's not even a specific goal for nokia now | 01:44 |
| ieatlint | just vague statements that meego may play part of a "future disruption" | 01:44 |
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| jacekowski | at least they have clear plan for main os | 01:46 |
| alterego | I thought MeeGo was pretty clear, I guess they just don't trust it enough. | 01:46 |
| alterego | Qt was the platform, and they've fucked it up. | 01:47 |
| alterego | So meh. | 01:47 |
| Venemo | alterego: timeless actually said that Nokia had just a few people on MeeGo, even before 'black friday' | 01:47 |
| ieatlint | well, the qt division at nokia insists they're still relevant, and say they are still hiring in fact | 01:47 |
| Venemo | yeah, I wouldn't worry about Qt. | 01:48 |
| alterego | ieatlint: that's because Symbian is still Nokias biggest product .. | 01:48 |
| Venemo | they are pretty significant on the desktop too | 01:48 |
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| timeless | most people work on platform/qt/qml/apps | 01:48 |
| alterego | They have to support it until their WP7 phones surpass it. | 01:48 |
| timeless | specific meego work is limited | 01:48 |
| ieatlint | yep... | 01:48 |
| alterego | And them some. | 01:48 |
| alterego | s/them/then/ | 01:49 |
| infobot | alterego meant: And then some. | 01:49 |
| ieatlint | Venemo: as for qt on desktop, they've basically said development for it has stopped | 01:49 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: that's horeshit | 01:50 |
| ieatlint | it's more maintainence only now | 01:50 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: I can have QML on desktop too | 01:50 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: horseshit* | 01:50 |
| ieatlint | http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/18/buckets-of-cold-water/#comment-19420 | 01:50 |
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| ieatlint | "Qt on the desktop is currently not a priority for our R&D team" | 01:51 |
| ieatlint | it goes on to say that they are still working on it, but pretty much that it's just to maintain it | 01:51 |
| jacekowski | well, thing is that there is only so much stuff you can add to single library | 01:52 |
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| jacekowski | and qt3 was already doing what it was supposed to do | 01:52 |
| ieatlint | and many things targeted toward mobile work on the desktop... i suppose the touch gestures/multitouch stuff will even be useful on desktop soon | 01:52 |
| jacekowski | and qt4 is reaching point where it will be just bloat of useless code | 01:52 |
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| jacekowski | it started as widget library | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | good night | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | time to sleep | 01:53 |
| ieatlint | night | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you noticed that link to softvol I tossed over? | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I'd think I'd even be able to hammer sth that automatically creates a volume slider named like the process basename for every process that opens ALSA:default, by just exploiting env var expansion in alsa config files | 01:58 |
| alterego | Or window title if it has one. | 02:01 |
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| pupnik_ | i miss the days when the 770 was the coolest thing | 02:05 |
| alterego | Heh, yeah | 02:05 |
| alterego | It was strangely ahead of its' time for about a year :) | 02:06 |
| alterego | I remember thinking "wow, this interface looks cool" :) | 02:06 |
| alterego | Very scifi | 02:06 |
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| pupnik_ | yea | 02:07 |
| pupnik_ | someone's trying to sell one for 90 euro | 02:07 |
| alterego | Heh | 02:07 |
| alterego | I've still got mine. | 02:07 |
| alterego | Strangely it's just my N810 that got destroyed. | 02:07 |
| alterego | My 770 and N800 are both fine .. | 02:08 |
| pupnik_ | howd it die | 02:08 |
| alterego | Touch screen just started failing. | 02:09 |
| pupnik_ | mhm | 02:09 |
| pupnik_ | i'd like an omap3 psion 5mx | 02:09 |
| alterego | Heh | 02:09 |
| pupnik_ | not at all a bad keyboard | 02:10 |
| pupnik_ | and the apps started instantly | 02:10 |
| alterego | Yeah, was good. | 02:10 |
| alterego | The beginnings of Symbian .. | 02:10 |
| alterego | Are psion even around anymore? | 02:10 |
| pupnik_ | no. they died and the people founded tomtom | 02:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: (win title) good point, thanks for the idea | 02:11 |
| alterego | They stll have a website .. | 02:11 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: np | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: how would I get wintitle on cmdline? | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's say wintitle of my parent process | 02:12 |
| alterego | I think it's xwininfo | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 02:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, not exactly | 02:13 |
| alterego | Hrm, not sure how to get pid | 02:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and how to specify which of multiple windows to use, if process <pid> has more than one | 02:19 |
| alterego | I'd go for the root one | 02:19 |
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| alterego | Or the first in the list. | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | theoretically there can be several root windows as well | 02:19 |
| alterego | Hrm, well, I guess it's up to you ;) | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think it's a nice idea, but for v0.1 I'd go for process basename | 02:20 |
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| alterego | Hrm, I better get some sleep, g'night folks. | 02:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | given the annoying fact nobody is using ALSA native anymore today, such a v0.1 is highly unlikely to see birth anyway | 02:22 |
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| Venemo | alterego: luckily for you, you can have the Diablo version of puzzle master on your N800 and 770 | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, I forgot to check new puzzlemaster... :-S | 02:25 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: np :) | 02:28 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: you can get it from -devel :) | 02:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, I got it from -devel days ago, and I just forgot I already checked and configured it | 02:29 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: ah, ok | 02:30 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I implemented your feature request | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | which one of the dozen? :-) | 02:32 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: alias for the custom images | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ohh, how does it work? | 02:32 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: now when you select a new image, you must enter an alias for it | 02:32 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: also, I implemented MohammadAG's idea too and now you can remove/clear items from the list | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's for sure needed | 02:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but I wonder why my one custom img is so oddly named | 02:33 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: previous version just labbeled them with their filenames | 02:34 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: also, newest release has a nicer GUI :) (but I'm sure this is of no interest to you:P) | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, it's heritage | 02:34 |
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| Venemo | anyway, I have to do a reboot now. "no reboots needed on Linux" is a joke. | 02:37 |
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| pupnik_ | installing a new kernel eh | 02:38 |
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| Venemo | hm, relogin was enough :P | 02:39 |
| pupnik_ | :) | 02:39 |
| * pupnik_ makes pizza for the room | 02:39 | |
| nox- | nomnom | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaaaaaw pizzzaaaa | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, how I'd like some now | 02:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: is 1.2.0 less snappy than previous versions? | 02:41 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I didn't notice | 02:41 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: is it? | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, even with shadows disabled it feels a bit sluggish, compared to former versions | 02:42 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: hm, that's weird | 02:42 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: try full screen | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I did | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, there's no real fullscreen | 02:43 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: the toolbar is still there, but it should be much snappier then | 02:43 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: actually, there was no change in any of the code that involves rendering the puzzle board | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, it's still bearable, but not as "physical" as previous version were, iirc | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, it's about moving the tiles | 02:44 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: only one thing - previously, images were rescaled to the size of the actual board, now they're always rescaled to 800×480 in order to make them not look bad when switching to full screen. | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | feels like swimming in oil now, while previously it was like tossing paper around | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe it's just me, too late | 02:47 |
| Venemo | no, not just you | 02:47 |
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| Venemo | others said it too, although disabling the effects fixed it for them | 02:47 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: if you have a scratchbox installation and 5 minutes of your time, can you try something for me? | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, some of the prerequisites are not matched | 02:49 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: which of them? :P | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually all 3 ;-D | 02:49 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :P | 02:50 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: if I send you a .deb? | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | go ahead | 02:50 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I'll try disabling hw rendering | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think my state just changed from "late for breakfast" to "too early for breakfast" :-D | 02:51 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :P | 02:52 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: ah, never mind | 02:52 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: without the shadows, it performs a lot better without hw accel | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's what I thought | 02:53 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: with the shadows, it performs a little better or maybe equal to hw accel | 02:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders another 12648430 | 02:53 | |
| Venemo | although I think I know what causes most of the problem | 02:53 |
| Venemo | 1) Qt Graphics View uses _lots_ of floating point calculations... | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 02:54 |
| Venemo | which is very-VERY slow | 02:54 |
| Venemo | it would be better with MeeGo's hardfp support of course, but still. | 02:54 |
| Venemo | 2) N900's graphics chip is horseshit | 02:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh | 02:54 |
| Venemo | I don't understand how can it render a game like Bounce when it struggles with 12 small images. | 02:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | first version was as responsive as it can possibly get | 02:55 |
| Venemo | yeah. when I disable hw accel and effects, it is equally as snappy as 1st version :) | 02:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my 11y old tester was so fast, he wouldn't like it like it's now | 02:56 |
| steve___ | Venemo: out of curiosity, how does one do this? | 02:56 |
| Venemo | I will make hw accel user-settable | 02:56 |
| Venemo | steve___: how does one do what? | 02:56 |
| steve___ | Venemo: disable hw acceleration and the effects | 02:56 |
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| Venemo | steve___: the effects you can now from the settings | 02:57 |
| Venemo | steve___: for hw accel I'll mess with this: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/mainwindow.cpp#line46 | 02:57 |
| Venemo | alterego: are you still here? | 02:58 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: this is very disappointing for me though. I was hoping that this stuff will bring actual performance benefits :( | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, preformance tuning is an art | 03:01 |
| pupnik_ | Venemo: struggling with 12 small images that are blitted to screen by cpu? | 03:02 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: actually, the cpu can do it well | 03:02 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: the gpu is disappointing | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | you pondered my suggestion to store settings (at least number of tiles) together with particular pictures? | 03:02 |
| pupnik_ | so you are using 12 textures on gpu? | 03:02 |
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| Venemo | pupnik_: you can set puzzle piece numbers as n×m where 2<=n,m<=15 | 03:03 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: obviously the more the pics the less the perf | 03:03 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I thought about it, and I have had a bit different idea. no time to implement yet | 03:04 |
| pupnik_ | a gpu should be able to display fixed textures fast. you are using opengl? | 03:04 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: correct | 03:04 |
| pupnik_ | then something's wrong eh | 03:04 |
| Venemo | well, alterego and everyone in #qt told me that QGraphicsView fw will bring me perf benefits because its items don't have the overhead of QWidgets | 03:05 |
| Venemo | as it turns out, those lots of fp calculations negate the overall perf benefit, if any | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess the task of mere blitting is too simple for gpu. too much overhead to set up, easier to do in cpu ram directly | 03:05 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: however for most people the current perf is acceptable, even with shadows. also it's better in (landscape) fullscreen because then the scaling is 1 (no overhead) and also opengl performs better in fullscreen | 03:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I just can say it is not as snappy as the old version has been. And I got a click stutter on audio | 03:07 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: also I was thinking about reducing the number of dynamic casts to see if it gets any better, but I don't think that dynamic_cast alone would mean that much. | 03:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nfc about that | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm an assembler man | 03:08 |
| Venemo | :) | 03:09 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: "click stutter on audio" -> this is news to me. elaborate please. | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be unrelated. Since PR1.2 I got those occasionally | 03:10 |
| Venemo | mhm | 03:10 |
| Venemo | heh | 03:11 |
| Venemo | N900 just rebooted randomly | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | xchat clicks on highlight, I got one sich click while playing Puzzlemaster and it suttered for ~500ms | 03:11 |
| Venemo | weird | 03:11 |
| Venemo | as it is now, puzzle-master uses almost 0 CPU so it shouldn't affect audio at all | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as said, might be completely unrelated | 03:12 |
| Venemo | ok | 03:12 |
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| Venemo | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/stable/graphicsview.html | 03:14 |
| Venemo | "Graphics View is built with the assumption that the user's hardware is able to provide reasonable performance for floating point instructions." | 03:14 |
| Venemo | HAHAHA | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 03:15 |
| Venemo | and the interesting one: | 03:15 |
| Venemo | As a result, certain kinds of effects may be slower than expected on certain devices. It may be possible to compensate for this performance hit by making optimizations in other areas; for example, by using OpenGL to render a scene. However, any such optimizations may themselves cause a reduction in performance if they also rely on the presence of floating point hardware. | 03:15 |
| Venemo | oh yeah | 03:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | use int, do in in cpu domain, forget that shit ;-D | 03:16 |
| Venemo | let's recompile Qt so that it relies on fixed point instead :P | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's not that bizarre an idea | 03:17 |
| Venemo | actually, how much precision would we lose? | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on model used in Qt | 03:17 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: 'qreal' is float on ARM, double in other places | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g for Z a resolution of 1mm for a max depth of 32m doesn't sound too bad | 03:18 |
| manaru | -offtopic- ok, if i add to my vita cross-comp of openmoko,nanonote,n900 ; i am not a programmer | 03:19 |
| Venemo | manaru: ? | 03:19 |
| manaru | for school | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice set of devices anyway :-D | 03:20 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: anyway, I'll make an 1.2.1 where you will be able to turn off effects, accelerometer, and opengl. then the performance should be where you want it to be | 03:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cool | 03:21 |
| manaru | openmoko and nanonote; got gentoo running; at nanonote was first one *proud*; but i do not want write false things | 03:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | programmer is just a label, and a very very fuzzy one, I have to add | 03:23 |
| manaru | and not ludicrous | 03:24 |
| manaru | *-and | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I'm not sure what's your question. I'd attribute you programmer for porting an OS to a new platform, no matter what | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, here guys are labeled programmers when they can set up some word macros | 03:26 |
| _trine | my central heating system has a programmer to turn it on and off | 03:26 |
| _trine | :P | 03:26 |
| _trine | does that count ? | 03:27 |
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| _trine | right on that i am off to bed | 03:27 |
| _trine | gnite | 03:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 03:41 |
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| pupnik_ | ? | 03:46 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: is x>>1 faster than x/2? | 04:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 04:06 |
| derf | Venemo: For unsigned x and a good compiler, no. | 04:06 |
| derf | For signed x, or with a poor compiler, yes. | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | For a good compiler, it shouldn't be. | 04:06 |
| Venemo | so a sensible compiler should be able to optimize it? | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:07 |
| derf | As long as "2" is actually a compile-time constant. | 04:07 |
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| derf | And not the value of some variable. | 04:07 |
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| Venemo | derf: of course it is | 04:08 |
| derf | You say "of course", but I've seen people expect the compiler to magically figure out that the variable they're dividing by is often 1 or 2 and optimize it for them. | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, or say "this variable is a constant in fact, so why doesn't the compiler recognize that?" | 04:10 |
| Venemo | ehh. :D | 04:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | For that unisys COBOL project some years back in last millenium, they had that policy to define *all* numeric constants in storage section, like 77 K-01 PIC 9 VALUE 1. 77 K-02 PIC 9 VALUE 2. I bet the microfocus COBOL compiler didn't bother to optimize anything using a COMPUTE B = A / K-02 | 04:27 |
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| budfive | anybody uses the N900 to make SIP calls? | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I used to, and it worked like a charm. Now it's broken for some reason, cba to figure what | 04:29 |
| budfive | DocScrutinizer: what does "broken" mean? It's choppy to the point of being unusable for me | 04:30 |
| budfive | DocScrutinizer: But I half-suspect my SIP service isn't what it should be | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, as long as it worked, it was absolutely clear. Now I can't call out anymore (select service button in dialer doesn't work) and inbound calls don't ring but get rejected immediately and are lsited as missed call | 04:31 |
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| budfive | DocScrutinizer: ok. did you have to do anything to make it clear, originally? | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I think I forwarded some ports on my router, and also maybe have set some bits in advanced config options of the SIP account, like "use stun" etc | 04:33 |
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| budfive | ok | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | I used same account for years on N810, and it worked and still works | 04:34 |
| manaru | syslog is often (always) helpful | 04:35 |
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| manaru | btw; does syslogd spend much power? | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't think so | 04:37 |
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| * jonwil is fearful his N900 USB port is damaged, just the slightest bump causes the charger to stop charging | 05:24 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | eeeew | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | could be the plug/cale though | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | cable* | 05:30 |
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| korhojoa | jonwil: aw | 05:33 |
| korhojoa | mine did that | 05:33 |
| korhojoa | then i had to wedge the cable in a certain way | 05:33 |
| korhojoa | and then it stopped working | 05:33 |
| korhojoa | get your backup now | 05:33 |
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| jonwil | and I thought Nokia hardware was known for its reliability | 05:37 |
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| jonwil | None of my 3 Motorola phones ever suffered any serious hardware failures | 05:38 |
| jonwil | one of them needed a new upper keypad | 05:38 |
| jonwil | but even then most of the buttons still worked | 05:38 |
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| jonwil | I hope this is actually charging my phone, it looks like it is but I cant be sure from what I can see | 05:45 |
| sid_ | alice (telefonica or a italican provider )hardware is really bad; they can apply remotely firmware upgrades; can provide move infos tomorrow | 05:45 |
| jonwil | What hardware is this? | 05:46 |
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| sid_ | http://www.alice-wiki.de/Alice_IAD_3231_WLAN | 05:49 |
| * jonwil doesnt speak that language :P | 05:53 | |
| jonwil | German I am guessing | 05:53 |
| jonwil | hmmm, I wonder if my N900 is actually charging, the charging light is flashing and battery.rechargeable.is_charging is showing up as true in hal-device bme | 05:55 |
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| jonwil | but battery.charge_level.percentage is at zero | 05:55 |
| jonwil | and battery.charge_level.capacity_state is low | 05:55 |
| jonwil | Anything I can do to see ifs actually putting juice into the battery? | 05:55 |
| jonwil | it also says maemo.charger.type = host 500 Ma | 05:56 |
| jonwil | and maemo.charge.status = connected | 05:56 |
| jonwil | and maemo.rechargeable.charging_status = on | 05:56 |
| jonwil | so I am sure its recharging | 05:56 |
| jonwil | its just taking time | 05:56 |
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| * jonwil will leave it for an hour or so and check again | 05:57 | |
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| sid_ | hmmm strange; is battery not in /proc/acpi | 06:02 |
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| * jonwil is very worried that his battery isn't actually charging | 06:06 | |
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| jonwil | battery.charge_level.percentage is remaining stubbornly at zero | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: use bq27200 script | 06:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | when it says maemo.charger.type = host 500 Ma then you probably got no short in D+/- of USB | 06:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# find /sys -name charger | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1 | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | == short of D+/- | 06:18 |
| jonwil | that prints zero | 06:18 |
| jonwil | at the momeny | 06:18 |
| jonwil | plugged into wall charger | 06:18 |
| jonwil | is zero the right value | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | then either wallcharger plug/cable or N900 USB receptacle is defect. Scrutinize contacts of plug and receptacle | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | (of course you can also cause this effect with a bug in kernel) | 06:19 |
| jonwil | I am running stock N900 kernel | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | try hooking N900 to PC and see if data transfer (i.e. ENUM) is working | 06:20 |
| jonwil | data transfer seems to work in that it asked me what mode I wanted | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | lsusb on PC | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | or check syslog | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | of PC | 06:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if that's OK, use a magnifying glass to check charger USB plug's contacts | 06:22 |
| jonwil | ok, ovi suite can see my N900 and is able to do a backup (or so it claims) | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | good | 06:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1 | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | 5V of USB | 06:24 |
| jonwil | prints s1 | 06:25 |
| jonwil | 1 | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/bq27200.sh | 06:25 |
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| jonwil | where do I get i2cget? | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | extras-devel | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | i2c-tools | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy i2c-tools | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe extras | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | or testing | 06:29 |
| jonwil | found it | 06:29 |
| jonwil | is it normal for it to give me scary sounding warnings? | 06:29 |
| jonwil | I am guessing yes | 06:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ignore | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder wtf apt-cache means by | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Version table: | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3.0.2-1maemo3 0 | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3.0.2-1maemo2 0 | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3.0.2-1maemo1 0 | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: TTF!=65535 means it's charging | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | TTE!=65535 means it's discharging | 06:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | TimeToFull/Empty are minutes afaik | 06:32 |
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| jonwil | hmmm, i2c-tools is not installing properly, I have the .deb, I am root and I am running dpkg -i i2c-tools_3.0.2-1maemo3_armel.deb | 06:36 |
| jonwil | its sitting there with the warning | 06:36 |
| jonwil | and nothing else | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | you clicked OK? | 06:37 |
| jonwil | as in its not installing | 06:37 |
| jonwil | wait, this is comming from dpkg not from anything GUI | 06:37 |
| jonwil | so a terminal window | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 06:37 |
| jonwil | it displays the warning about being dangerious and just sits there | 06:37 |
| jonwil | damgerous | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea, there's some preinstall script popping up that requester | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno what it's doing via dpkg | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://enivax.net/jk/n900/i2cget | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | wget to $PATH | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | chmod a+x | 06:39 |
| jonwil | aha, it displayed something on the GUI after all | 06:39 |
| jonwil | with an OK button | 06:39 |
| jonwil | now its installed | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought as much | 06:39 |
| jonwil | ok, its priniting a TTF of 304 and a TTE of 65535 | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | avrg current? | 06:41 |
| jonwil | 398ma | 06:41 |
| jonwil | does that mean juice IS in fact going into my battery? | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, 0.4*304/60 | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's charging with 400mA | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | well TTF may be wrong | 06:42 |
| jonwil | which makes sense for being connected to my PC | 06:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | otoh 5h*0.3A | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | err 0.4A | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmmm | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | run bq27200.sh 10 | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | lock screen | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | see what mA you get | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's Voltage? | 06:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Reported Battery Voltage: 4161 mV | 06:45 |
| jonwil | mv is 3902 | 06:45 |
| jonwil | and going up | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks ok | 06:45 |
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| jonwil | this is after plugging in the wall charger | 06:45 |
| jonwil | it now says ma is 901 | 06:46 |
| jonwil | ttf is 100 | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | wooohooo | 06:46 |
| jonwil | tte is 65535 | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | much better | 06:46 |
| jonwil | rsoc and csoc are 51 | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | those may be quite off | 06:46 |
| jonwil | now hal-device bme says "percentage" = 15 | 06:47 |
| jonwil | yay | 06:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also absolute values of TTF and TTE are just guesswork | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, you said it's sensitive to slightest touch to plug/cable | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | so back to square one | 06:49 |
| jonwil | my guess is that if I dont touch it and let it charge, it will work | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | either wallcharger plug/cable or N900 USB receptacle is defect. Scrutinize contacts of plug and receptacle | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | bq27200.sh 5 >temp.txt&; watch (cat cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger; tail -n 1 temp.txt) | 06:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oh sheeeesh 6o' | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yawn'o'clock | 06:57 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: you never sleep? | 06:57 |
| Venemo | anyway, good night | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: nope, I never sleep | 06:57 |
| jonwil | temp is going up btw | 06:57 |
| jonwil | now at 42 | 06:57 |
| jonwil | is that bad? | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | not at all | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's die temp of charger chip | 06:58 |
| Sc0rpius | ok let's see | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's mostly irrelevant | 06:58 |
| Sc0rpius | if somebody knows a lot of Maemo here | 06:58 |
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| Sc0rpius | what in the hell creates the files in ~/.cache/launch ? | 06:58 |
| jonwil | maemo-launcher does I think | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | err nope, wait | 06:59 |
| Sc0rpius | those are images like screenshots of those applications | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's not charger chip, so it's die temp of the gauge chip | 06:59 |
| jonwil | doesn't sound dangerous | 06:59 |
| Sc0rpius | those are loaded by maemo-invoker/maemo-launcher when you click an icon, it shows you that screenshot until the application is full loaded | 06:59 |
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| Sc0rpius | (and yes, it's sad that Maemo shows us screenshots of the applications before they are loaded) | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: so what's your question? | 07:00 |
| jonwil | right now I just need to get the battery charged | 07:00 |
| Sc0rpius | well I modified Modest heavily and somehow the screenshot is not being updated there, so I wanted to know what creates it to troubleshoot it | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: right. nevertheless watch the states of those 2 sysnodes, so you can tell instantly when something odd happens | 07:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's app launcher that creates it, and you can simply delete it | 07:03 |
| Sc0rpius | yes, but I want to know what tells app launcher to create one | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the code? | 07:03 |
| Sc0rpius | since it's very weird, I changed the initial window of Modest and the screenshot cache is not updated anymore | 07:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure what exactly does the screenies and when they are taken, but it's an inherent hildon function afaik | 07:04 |
| Sc0rpius | it's not like the launcher creates a screenshot for everything, it's very specific | 07:04 |
| Sc0rpius | hmm but it's a hint anyway | 07:04 |
| Sc0rpius | now I guess I know what to google | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: it's some tag in .desktop afaik | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | pv | 07:05 |
| Sc0rpius | hmmm mmmm | 07:05 |
| Sc0rpius | now I know they are called PVR files | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | or sth like that | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvr yeah | 07:05 |
| jonwil | All the relavent hildon parts are open source AFAIK | 07:06 |
| jonwil | including maemo-launcher | 07:06 |
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| jonwil | is somewhere around 900ma normal for the nokia wall charger | 07:09 |
| jonwil | ? | 07:09 |
| MohammadAG | it's done by hildon_take_screenshot() I think | 07:09 |
| Jartza | hmmh | 07:10 |
| MohammadAG | or something like that | 07:10 |
| Jartza | I broke my other n900 again :D | 07:10 |
| MohammadAG | grep for screenshot | 07:10 |
| Jartza | it had broken earpiece. now the earpiece is working, but keyboard feels "stuck" and barely opens. | 07:10 |
| Jartza | and n900 thinks the keyboard is open all the time | 07:10 |
| Jartza | oh well | 07:11 |
| MohammadAG | my keyboard got "stuck" once | 07:11 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, no, that was the N95, nvm | 07:12 |
| Sc0rpius | wow but I can't find where Modest creates the PVR file and its .desktop file doesn't look like has a tag for it | 07:12 |
| Sc0rpius | hildon_take_screenshot? | 07:12 |
| Sc0rpius | hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot maybe? | 07:13 |
| Sc0rpius | let's see | 07:13 |
| Sc0rpius | src/modest-ui-actions.c:hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot (parent_window, FALSE); | 07:13 |
| Sc0rpius | I finally found the bastard | 07:13 |
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| ebzzry | What is the advised way of running a startup program as user 'user', for example, via /etc/event.d, in Maemo 5? | 07:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: yeah, I can't find any tag in .desktop as well | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ebzzry: su -l user foobar ? | 07:22 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: let me try that. | 07:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | though that's probably not what you want to do. I guess you want a .desktop file with autostart tag | 07:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | some are using queenbeecon | 07:23 |
| jonwil | I notice that the PC usb cable does better at keeping the connection than the wall charger | 07:24 |
| jonwil | so maybe my wall charger is broken | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Maemo-Prestarted=always | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Maemo-Prestarted-Priority=2000 | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: that's what I try to tell you since how long? :-D | 07:25 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer: OK | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | /usr/share/applications/hildon/modest.desktop | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | as a template | 07:26 |
| * jonwil hopes its the charger that's broken and not the phone | 07:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I suggest to carefully scrutinize the contacts in plug | 07:26 |
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| * jonwil doesnt have good eyesight or a magnifier | 07:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer | a defect plug can destroy the receptacle! | 07:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a defect plug can destroy the receptacle! | 07:28 |
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| slonopotamus | X-Fade: quick! fix the builder: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2011-February/ | 07:38 |
| Sc0rpius | the X-Maemo-Prestarted is to run the application all the time | 07:39 |
| Sc0rpius | it defines the application as a background one | 07:39 |
| Sc0rpius | anyway I fixed the screenshot thing :) | 07:39 |
| Sc0rpius | applications ran like that can't be killed wigh SIGKILL or killall, you have to dsmetool -k them | 07:40 |
| Sc0rpius | well they can be killed, but they are respawned | 07:40 |
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| jonwil | so how can I tell if my charger has broken contacts without a magnifier? | 07:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | first check cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger | 07:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | depending on which one goes to 0, you know what to look for | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | then get either a mag glass, or a new charger | 07:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also when you pull out the USB plug just 1mm (with your fingernails between jack and case) and it stops charging, that's most probably an indications that contacts in either plug or receptacle are bent | 07:55 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 07:56 |
| RST38h | Moo all. | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | reyawn | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo | 07:57 |
| jonwil | hmmm, damn, it looks like the N900 browser UI is closed source :( | 07:59 |
| RST38h | Doc: Anything interesting? Disasters? Mergers? Premature bankrupcies? | 08:01 |
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| LiraNuna | my N900's USB connection only gives a read-only partition | 08:26 |
| LiraNuna | any clue how I can debug this? | 08:26 |
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| LiraNuna | ah nvm, corrupted partition | 08:27 |
| LiraNuna | [117440.560569] FAT: Filesystem error (dev sdg) | 08:27 |
| LiraNuna | [117440.560571] fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 35047460) | 08:27 |
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| jonwil | hooray, my N900 is fully charged | 09:39 |
| jonwil | :) | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | \o/ | 09:39 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Linux: The ability to run your applications and such from a chroot into a disk image while installing from a LiveCD :D | 10:15 |
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| flux | hm, the led on my n900 doesn't seem to turn on at any situation anymore | 11:01 |
| flux | how would I determine if it's a software or a hardware issue? | 11:02 |
| jonwil | flux, sounds like the problem I had a while back | 11:02 |
| jonwil | might be a hardware fault | 11:02 |
| flux | I guess it's time to bite the bullet and try the service | 11:03 |
| flux | but I guess some daemon is responsible for the leds, and perhaps I could control the leds directly from some /sys file? | 11:04 |
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| yacc | Sigh, weren't MicroUSB connectors meant to break on the cable side? *wonder* | 11:08 |
| yacc | What's the fastest procedure to get a N900 fixed by Nokia? | 11:08 |
| RST38h | No, they have been meant to bend on the plug side, then break off | 11:09 |
| ruskie | flux, yeah you could... search on tmo about it... | 11:09 |
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| yacc | RST38h, well, on my N900 this seems to have happened :( | 11:21 |
| yacc | Wonder if the E61 still works, ... | 11:21 |
| yacc | Would be preferable to a Samsung Star as a replacement device, ... | 11:21 |
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| * jonwil hopes that the charging issue with his wall charger don't require another trip to Nokia Care | 11:24 | |
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| crashanddie | doesn't | 11:26 |
| ruskie | hehe | 11:28 |
| * jonwil gives up on seeing SMS-CB working ever | 11:31 | |
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| alterego | On maemo you mean :P | 11:31 |
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| jonwil | I lack the skills to reverse engineer the SMS stuff, no-one with the skills exists in the Maemo community (or if they do, they dont care) and its unlikely Nokia are going to fix the bug or release the code | 11:31 |
| alterego | What bug? | 11:32 |
| jonwil | there is a bug in the Cell Broadcast code in libsms.so/libcsd-sms.so | 11:32 |
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| pupnik | does cell-broadcast show interesting stuff? | 11:32 |
| alterego | How do you know? What's the behaviour? | 11:33 |
| jonwil | I know because I can see the bug in IDA | 11:33 |
| jonwil | I can see why the code is not doing what it should | 11:33 |
| jonwil | It would likely be a 1-line fix if we had the relavent code | 11:33 |
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| pupnik | this isn't the place to request opening components | 11:34 |
| alterego | I still think you should try and get ofono working .. | 11:34 |
| jonwil | ofono will never work on Maemo | 11:34 |
| alterego | It already works on maemo | 11:34 |
| jatt | which is the name of the fm radio application for the n900? | 11:34 |
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| jatt | I installed one which shows a big radio dial but it didn't work, no fm stations were detected by it | 11:35 |
| jonwil | You need an antenna AFAIK | 11:35 |
| alterego | jatt: did you plug in the headphones? | 11:35 |
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| jatt | no | 11:35 |
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| jatt | does it only work with the (original) headphones? | 11:35 |
| alterego | jatt: no, any shoul d do | 11:35 |
| jatt | why do I need headphones for it? | 11:36 |
| alterego | Because they act as the antenna | 11:36 |
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| alterego | have you never used a portable fm radio before? | 11:37 |
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| jatt | nope | 11:38 |
| jatt | ok, will try with the headphones then, thanks | 11:38 |
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| pupnik | why does ofono need FM antenna? | 11:39 |
| villager | jatt: a 100 MHz signal has a wavelength of 3 meters, and you generally need an antenna of at least 1/4 the wavelength to get a decent signal, i.e. 3/4 meter... the phone itself isn't that long, but the headphone cord is... | 11:39 |
| alterego | It doesn't | 11:39 |
| alterego | pupnik: the fm radio app does, | 11:39 |
| pupnik | 10:34 < jonwil> ofono will never work on Maemo | 11:39 |
| pupnik | 10:34 < alterego> It already works on maemo | 11:39 |
| pupnik | ahh nm | 11:39 |
| alterego | pupnik: :) | 11:39 |
| alterego | pupnik: :) | 11:39 |
| alterego | brb | 11:40 |
| jonwil | ofono may compile and run on maemo. But there are a LOT of things which talk to the maemo telephony stack that will fail to work and need to be replaced or ripped out | 11:40 |
| pupnik | yes | 11:40 |
| jatt | villager: interesting fact, thanks | 11:40 |
| pupnik | got any good howto for ofono | 11:40 |
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| jonwil | It is not possible to get ofono to work on maemo without some features currently present on the phone failing to work | 11:41 |
| ruskie | until someone actually dose the job of making them work | 11:41 |
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| jonwil | you cant even make a phonecall without replacing the Maemo dialer with the inferior meego dialer | 11:42 |
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| jacekowski | villager: that's not exactly true | 11:44 |
| jacekowski | villager: if your signal is strong enough then even couple cm aerial will do | 11:44 |
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| jonwil | so yeah "replace with ofono" is not the option for most people who actually USE all the features of their n900 that rely on the current telephony stack | 11:50 |
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| villager | jacekowski: sure... I was saying "generally", it's not always the case... but from what I've learned, the real amplification effect of an antenna only kicks in when the length is a multiple of 1/4 of the wavelength | 11:51 |
| villager | approx. | 11:51 |
| lcuk | jonwil, the "inferior" dialier has one major benefit - its OSS | 11:52 |
| lcuk | and can be continually improved | 11:52 |
| jonwil | I am determined to finish my reverse engineering of at least ONE of my target binaries on the N900 though :P | 11:53 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: If the required docs are there. | 11:53 |
| villager | and normally a FM signal is too weak to be received without an antenna amplifying it... | 11:53 |
| SpeedEvil | (or nice people reverse it) | 11:53 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: not a benefit, as far as I am concerned | 11:53 |
| RST38h | Has to be usable first, only then it might be open source | 11:53 |
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| alterego | ffs, will someone fix the autobuilder allready >:( | 11:56 |
| RST38h | alterego: it is open source, fix it yourself! =) | 11:58 |
| jonwil | Maybe I will dive even deeper into the bowels of the Nokia Maemo dialer to try and reverse engineer it | 11:58 |
| RST38h | send a patch etc | 11:58 |
| pupnik | "SLS technology - high power laser beam is shooting onto liquid nylon and changing the liquid into solid bit by bit. Layer by layer." cool | 11:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Also wrong | 12:02 |
| * jonwil wishes it was easier to obtain changelogs for stuff only found in the SSU repos/on the phone and not found in the SDK repos | 12:04 | |
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| alterego | RST38h: it's in a build loop building curl | 12:08 |
| alterego | I woke up to a 400 full inbox of UNKNOWN builds of curl .. | 12:09 |
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| toadpole | hey is there an easy way to make a list of installed packages so i can re-install them after flashing? | 12:25 |
| ruskie | dpkg -l | 12:26 |
| ruskie | also the backup utility makes a list that will allow to install them | 12:26 |
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| toadpole | will that give me the name of the repository the package belongs to also? | 12:26 |
| toadpole | yeah, i was thinking i'll do a clean install, because i wanted to dual-boot meego | 12:26 |
| ruskie | dpkg -l ? nope | 12:27 |
| ruskie | just a list of all packages and some extra stuff | 12:27 |
| toadpole | that'll still help, thanks ruskie | 12:27 |
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| toadpole | the list is too long to fit in the buffer :( any thing that pauses the list like in dir /p? | 12:29 |
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| nid0 | just dpkg -l > list.txt ? | 12:31 |
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| ruskie | :) | 12:33 |
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| toadpole | that'd do it :) thanks, i'm a bit of a retard with linux | 12:33 |
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| toadpole | no wait | 12:33 |
| toadpole | that wouldn't work, would it? | 12:33 |
| nid0 | why wouldnt it? | 12:34 |
| nid0 | (hint: it does) | 12:34 |
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| toadpole | it did :D thanks! | 12:37 |
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| Azog | is the source for rtcom-messaging-ui somewhere available? i can't find it | 12:46 |
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| jonwil | nope, its not | 12:47 |
| timeless | it either is or isn't available | 12:47 |
| timeless | azog: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=rtcom-messaging-ui | 12:47 |
| jonwil | its not available | 12:48 |
| timeless | but that's not interesting, knowing which tools can help you is | 12:48 |
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| timeless | jonwil =~ s/its not/it isn't/g | 12:48 |
| jonwil | its one of the many pieces of UI code that is closed source because of "product differentiation" (as Nokia puts itP) | 12:48 |
| Azog | too bad, i imported all my old sms in el-v1.db with sqlite, and now a few have the sender (null) | 12:48 |
| timeless | [it would be it's not its, but it's better to use it+isn't] | 12:48 |
| timeless | Azog: the database is sqlite | 12:49 |
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| Azog | timeless: i know, that's how i imported all the sms | 12:49 |
| timeless | so fixing it is something you can do w/o sources... | 12:49 |
| Azog | but for some strange reasons, some have the sender (null) | 12:49 |
| Azog | even if i take the same format as working entries | 12:50 |
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| ruskie | Azog, what he's saying is... examine the raw database... and see if they have the same data in there | 12:58 |
| ruskie | if it's missing in the db as well than that's your problem | 12:58 |
| Azog | ruskie: the problem is, that the rows from the database look the same | 13:02 |
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| kerio | hmm, question = what happens to the design of the n9 and the prototypes? | 13:10 |
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| jarkkom_ | kerio, nokia prototype phone throwing competition | 13:11 |
| jarkkom_ | (it's real thing) | 13:11 |
| kerio | so they're still not going to build the n9? | 13:11 |
| kerio | :( | 13:11 |
| alterego | The N9 will be WP7 :P | 13:11 |
| kerio | D: | 13:11 |
| * kerio won't buy that | 13:11 | |
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| jarkkom_ | I heard the original N9 thing has been scrapped, software was so late that hardware would've been outdated by time it would've been out | 13:12 |
| kerio | :< | 13:12 |
| kerio | maemo is out now! | 13:12 |
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| alterego | The revised N9 design will be used for one of the first WP7 devices I heard. | 13:15 |
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| alterego | Which means that, hopefully if the bootload is okay, we can boot meego on it :x | 13:15 |
| alterego | But I think that may be quite unlikely. :( | 13:15 |
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| Robot101 | alterego: what do you notice about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Windows_Phone_devices ? :P | 13:17 |
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| alterego | Robot101: Heh | 13:18 |
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| jatt | maemo is out? | 13:24 |
| Appiah_ | it's in | 13:24 |
| alterego | It's up | 13:24 |
| xkr47 | it's around | 13:25 |
| jatt | meego is out? | 13:25 |
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| andre__ | jatt: sentence is vague? | 13:27 |
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| Venemo | morning | 13:33 |
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| Venemo | alterego: ping | 13:33 |
| toadpole | do maemo apps work on meego? | 13:33 |
| lcuk | toadpole, depends on the app | 13:33 |
| lcuk | but well written Qt apps certainly do! try for example puzzle-master | 13:34 |
| Venemo | thx lcuk:) | 13:34 |
| * lcuk tips cap | 13:34 | |
| lcuk | Venemo, it works well :) | 13:35 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: o7 | 13:35 |
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| Venemo | ( lcuk, btw, you know what o7 is, don't you? ) | 13:36 |
| lcuk | nop | 13:37 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: it is the same figure as o/ the difference being that 7 expresses a salutating hand | 13:38 |
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| * lcuk wonders what an ASCII Rimmer salute would look like o_O | 13:39 | |
| lcuk | ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXdtUISSHuo for reference ) | 13:40 |
| Venemo | lcuk: btw, have you tried the latest version? | 13:41 |
| lcuk | the new series is not out yet, but I expect his salute to be even more impressive | 13:41 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: I mean, latest version of puzzle-master. which is out. :P | 13:42 |
| lcuk | oh, no have not dug much around apps recently, been trying to work out why meego handset images are not running properly | 13:44 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: mhm | 13:50 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: and I concluded that Qt Graphics View is crap because of its floating point calculations :( | 13:54 |
| lcuk | why do floating point calculations make it crap? | 13:55 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: becasue fp calculations have a performance impact on ARM cpus | 13:55 |
| lcuk | ok, that makes it slow | 13:55 |
| lcuk | but that is not the same as crap :P | 13:56 |
| Venemo | lcuk: everyone said I should use QGV because it performs better than QWidgets | 13:56 |
| Venemo | lcuk: but ever since I switched to using it, I have only seen performance loss :( | 13:56 |
| mikhas | then "everyone" is not informed | 13:56 |
| lcuk | Venemo, I hear even the PowerVR can be made to go fast if you poke it right | 13:57 |
| lcuk | hell, even tortoises run if motivated enough | 13:57 |
| Venemo | lcuk: if you have any info about poking the PowerVR right, it is more than welcome here | 13:58 |
| lcuk | Venemo, the powervr was designed for certain types of operations | 13:59 |
| flat` | 7' | 14:00 |
| lcuk | and can be seen in a number of places running well | 14:00 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: yes, it runs 3D stuff very well | 14:01 |
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| ThreeM | can the PowerVR used as a floating point co-cpu?! | 14:03 |
| Venemo | ThreeM: I don't think so | 14:03 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: anyway, puzzle-master already makes use of the PowerVR via QGLWidget | 14:04 |
| jacekowski | ThreeM: there is dedicated floating point unit in omap | 14:04 |
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| jonwil | Isnt the issue the lack of hardfp support in maemo? | 14:05 |
| jacekowski | it is | 14:05 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: which Maemo can't support, yes | 14:05 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: it is barely any faster than software rendering, but it does a good job on offloading the cpu | 14:05 |
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| alterego | I still think you're doing something wrong. Have you tried setting the caching mode on your widgets. | 14:08 |
| alterego | ? | 14:08 |
| Venemo | alterego: what widgets? | 14:09 |
| alterego | Erm, well what are your tiles? | 14:09 |
| Venemo | alterego: QGraphicsPixmapItems | 14:09 |
| alterego | Basically you want to stop them being repainted all the time. | 14:10 |
| alterego | Use setCacheMode() on them | 14:10 |
| Venemo | alterego: I'll try | 14:10 |
| Venemo | alterego: which mode? QGraphicsItem::ItemCoordinateCache or QGraphicsItem::DeviceCoordinateCache ? | 14:11 |
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| Venemo | alterego: the latter seems to be more beneficial | 14:12 |
| alterego | Item | 14:13 |
| alterego | though both would have a benificial effect if it works. | 14:13 |
| alterego | Yeah | 14:13 |
| Venemo | ok, I'll try both of them | 14:13 |
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| Venemo | alterego: no noticable improvement | 14:17 |
| lcuk | Venemo, alterego - perhaps if alter has some ideas he could just peek in the code and see, from what I recall venemo your code is clean and easily digestable | 14:18 |
| Venemo | thanks lcuk :) | 14:19 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:19 |
| Venemo | alterego: yeah, I'd be more thank happy if you could tell me what I'm doing wrong | 14:20 |
| alterego | I'm afk at the moment unfortunately, travelling. | 14:20 |
| alterego | And it's kinda hard to hack on the N900 ;) | 14:20 |
| lcuk | typing "I'm AFK" is a misnomer | 14:20 |
| Venemo | :D | 14:21 |
| alterego | AFL? | 14:21 |
| alterego | Or, IAM (I Am Mobile) | 14:21 |
| BCMM | lcuk: if you are VERY FAST you can be away by the time anyone reads it | 14:21 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:21 |
| alterego | Well, you're only as active as your last statement. | 14:22 |
| lcuk | lol | 14:22 |
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| alterego | As soon as you hit enter your afk :P | 14:22 |
| Venemo | alterego: if you can look at it, you can find it here: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/trees/master | 14:23 |
| alterego | 2G, I'll give it a go :) | 14:23 |
| Venemo | alterego: the only thing I do with opengl is this single line: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/mainwindow.cpp#line50 | 14:24 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 14:24 |
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| alterego | So, can you explain what performance issues you're having, does it just seem to work slowely? | 14:25 |
| alterego | Is it jurky? | 14:25 |
| lcuk | "Please state the nature of the medical emergency" | 14:25 |
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| Venemo | I start moving a piece. | 14:26 |
| alterego | :) | 14:26 |
| Venemo | when they were QWidgets, they followed my finger realtime | 14:26 |
| alterego | Right | 14:26 |
| Venemo | (even though lots of their other parts were unoptimized) | 14:26 |
| Venemo | now they don't | 14:26 |
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| Venemo | they lag behind my finger | 14:26 |
| alterego | hrm | 14:27 |
| Venemo | if I disable the drop shadow effect and remove the QGLWidget and switch to fullscreen, they perform almost as good | 14:27 |
| Venemo | if I enable the drop shadow effect, it performs better if I have the QGLWidget | 14:28 |
| lcuk | Venemo, video is worth (1000 * number of frames) words | 14:28 |
| alterego | are you not running fullscreen? | 14:28 |
| Venemo | alterego: there's a full screen button yes | 14:28 |
| alterego | GL performance is atrocious when not fullscreen | 14:28 |
| Venemo | alterego: but even in fullscreen, it doesn't work as well. | 14:28 |
| alterego | Indeed. | 14:28 |
| alterego | Well, I think the drop shadow effect is implemented in software. | 14:29 |
| Venemo | alterego: it performs better with GL, so I dunno. | 14:29 |
| Venemo | lcuk: I know, but I have no other video recording device, just the N900 | 14:29 |
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| Venemo | alterego: also, the performance degrades dramatically if the graphics view is scaled | 14:30 |
| alterego | :) | 14:30 |
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| alterego | Yes, I'd imagine that to be the case. | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | why? | 14:30 |
| Venemo | alterego: this is the part that I blame on the fp calculations | 14:30 |
| RST38h | set log on | 14:30 |
| lcuk | opengl is designed to render scaled triangles isnt it | 14:30 |
| lcuk | and multiplying by 1.000 is the same as multiplying by 0.999 | 14:31 |
| lcuk | time wise | 14:31 |
| alterego | well, transformed vertices and polygon fragments. | 14:32 |
| alterego | But yes, it should be. | 14:32 |
| Venemo | well, I use a small cheat. when the scale ratio is between 0.98 and 1.02 (this usually happens in fullscreen), I call resetTransform() to give it that small performance gain | 14:32 |
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| alterego | Hrm, do you scale the source image before you split it into tiles? | 14:33 |
| Venemo | alterego: I do | 14:33 |
| Venemo | alterego: I scale it in such a way that the scale ratio of the scene is 1.0 when in fullscreen mode | 14:33 |
| Venemo | alterego: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/jigsawpuzzleboard.cpp#line17 | 14:34 |
| alterego | So how does it perform with gl enabled but drop shadow disabled? | 14:35 |
| Venemo | alterego: a bit slower than gl disabled. | 14:36 |
| alterego | Interesting, so basically you're saying that you lose performance with gl and more when you use drop shadows? | 14:36 |
| Venemo | alterego: I lose performance with gl when I don't have drop shadows and I gain some performance with it when there are drop shadows | 14:37 |
| alterego | Oh heh | 14:37 |
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| alterego | Have you enquired on #qt ? | 14:38 |
| Venemo | I asked them once about this, and they said that this isn't surprising for them, but they couldn't tell me of any way to improve the situation | 14:40 |
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| alterego | Hrm | 14:41 |
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| Venemo | alterego: I thought I may try to recompile the graphics view framework to use fixed-point calculations | 14:43 |
| alterego | I notice you're not enabling double buffering either. | 14:43 |
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| Venemo | alterego: I don't know what double buffering is, nor how to enable it :) | 14:43 |
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| alterego | Venemo: new QGLWidget(QGLFormat(QGL::DoubleBuffer), this); | 14:49 |
| alterego | To create your viewport. | 14:49 |
| Venemo | ok | 14:49 |
| Venemo | I'm testing it | 14:49 |
| alterego | Probably wont make too much of a performance increase but it's worth it to reduce tearing. | 14:50 |
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| Venemo | yeah, as you say | 14:51 |
| Venemo | no noticable improvement | 14:51 |
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| alterego | Where are you handling input? | 14:51 |
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| Venemo | http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/jigsawpuzzleitem.cpp mousePressEvent mouseReleaseEvent mouseMoveEvent | 14:52 |
| Venemo | that's all the input handling I've got | 14:53 |
| Venemo | I also intend to implement some code for touchEvent later on. | 14:53 |
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| alterego | Hrm | 14:56 |
| Venemo | alterego: Hrm indeed | 14:58 |
| alterego | I'll have to check it out when I get home tonight. | 14:58 |
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| Venemo | alterego: okay | 14:59 |
| Venemo | alterego: the code where the scaling occours may also be of interest to you | 15:00 |
| alterego | Yeah | 15:00 |
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| alterego | What I'll probably end up doing is implementing a test case and play with rendering and input options | 15:01 |
| Venemo | okay | 15:01 |
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| Venemo | in the meantime, I'm thinking about making fullscreen the default option for the app, that should boost its resposiveness by a lot | 15:02 |
| Venemo | but that is just avoiding the real problem | 15:02 |
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| alterego | Well, it is a real problem and games run fullscreen for a reason :P | 15:03 |
| Venemo | yeah | 15:03 |
| Venemo | also I am thinking of an alternative solution that doesn't require me to use the built-in scaling mechanism of the graphics view to see if there is any improvement if I'm just not using it | 15:04 |
| RST38h | abill_uk is...errrmmm... | 15:05 |
| alterego | A dick :) | 15:05 |
| Venemo | what did he do? | 15:05 |
| RST38h | how impolite! | 15:05 |
| alterego | A crazy, crazy idiot :) | 15:05 |
| RST38h | Venemo: been talking rubbish again | 15:05 |
| Venemo | heh | 15:05 |
| RST38h | Nothing special except that it popped up in my thread subscriptions | 15:06 |
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| pillar | why is it so hard to use a 3rd party library with qtcreator.. | 15:06 |
| alterego | pillar: it's not? :) | 15:07 |
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| pillar | alterego: I don't seem to get it, it's me then I guess :) | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Have you considered not using Qt Creator? | 15:08 |
| alterego | Heh, it's not creator, I think he means madde :) | 15:08 |
| Venemo | pillar: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/puzzle-master.pro#line62 | 15:08 |
| pillar | yeah, probably madde | 15:08 |
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| alterego | pillar: what lib in particular? | 15:16 |
| pillar | alterego: kqoauth | 15:16 |
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| alterego | pillar: is there a deb for maemo? | 15:16 |
| pillar | I sort of got it working by doing everything manually.. copying the header files to the include, building the lib and putting to the sysroot | 15:17 |
| pillar | alterego: yeah there is | 15:17 |
| dschoepe | alterego: http://maemo.org/packages/view/kqoauth/ | 15:17 |
| alterego | pillar: well, download the deb, the do: mad-admin xdpkg -i kqoauth*_armel.deb | 15:18 |
| alterego | then restart qt creator and it should work. | 15:18 |
| MohammadAG | why restart? | 15:19 |
| pillar | forgot to point out that I'm developing on windows.. | 15:19 |
| alterego | Though you may need to add: LIBS += -lkqoauth or something | 15:19 |
| MohammadAG | just reparse | 15:19 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: hasn't always worked for me, but yeah, there are a couple of other ways of getting it to reindex. | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | heh, windows | 15:20 |
| pillar | the example has CONFIG += kqoauth and then #include <QtKOAuth> | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | %PATH% is retarded on windows tbh | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | never worked for me | 15:21 |
| pillar | I know.. I should just go and install Visual Studio Express and get ready for Nokia Windows Phones (not) :) | 15:21 |
| MohammadAG | hah | 15:21 |
| alterego | pillar: yeah, that should work | 15:21 |
| alterego | Heh | 15:21 |
| MohammadAG | I hate how you can't do everything on windows with cmd | 15:22 |
| Venemo | good morning MohammadAG :) | 15:23 |
| ruskie | actually that improved a lot in server2k8 | 15:23 |
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| ruskie | and there's a ton of: run these commands type of howtos appearing for it... | 15:24 |
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| MohammadAG | ruskie, does it have a wget equivalent? | 15:25 |
| MohammadAG | morning Venemo | 15:25 |
| ruskie | no clue... | 15:25 |
| ruskie | I try to minimize my exposure to brain borkedness | 15:25 |
| Venemo | ruskie ++ | 15:25 |
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| MohammadAG | heh | 15:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ina_bill | 15:28 |
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| alterego | inc-abill_uk | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yesterday I was temped to call him out on his "will never... that's the truth" | 15:31 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: for you to laugh: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32864 | 15:32 |
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| Kowalczyk | 78 | 15:51 |
| Kowalczyk | gah | 15:51 |
| ZogG | http://twitpic.com/427ydx/full - lol chromium bug | 15:52 |
| xkr47 | I do not see it! | 15:52 |
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| * alterego sighs | 15:58 | |
| Venemo | alterego: ? | 15:59 |
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| alterego | abill_uk | 16:01 |
| alterego | :) | 16:01 |
| Venemo | xD | 16:01 |
| alterego | I'm being mean again, I should stop. | 16:01 |
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| ZogG | xkr47 what don't you see? | 16:03 |
| ZogG | bug? | 16:03 |
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| xkr47 | yeah.. never used chromium.. | 16:06 |
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| Venemo | have to go, will be back later | 16:10 |
| Venemo | alterego: ping me when you had the time to peek into my code | 16:10 |
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| ZogG | xkr47 you have 3 buttons usually | 16:12 |
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| xkr47 | ah hehe | 16:12 |
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| ZogG | and there are 4 when 2 in the middle should be the same one changing itself due the windows size | 16:12 |
| ZogG | fullscreen - non fullscreen | 16:12 |
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| xkr47 | yep | 16:14 |
| alterego | Venemo: wont be for about 5 hours I wouldn't think .. | 16:14 |
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| Venemo | alterego: no problem. I'll welcome it even after 5 hours :) | 16:14 |
| Venemo | good bye guys, I'll get back later | 16:15 |
| alterego | See ya later | 16:15 |
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| alterego | Ooo, it's heating up! | 16:19 |
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| alterego | Heh, like this tag "lol @ abill_uk" :D | 16:28 |
| alterego | I've never tagged a thread, who bothers doing this stuff :D | 16:29 |
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| zerojay | It's the passive-agressive way to be a bitch. | 16:29 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:30 |
| alterego | I just call him an idiot. | 16:31 |
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| alterego | No point in hiding from it :) | 16:31 |
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| zerojay | Hasn't changed in 3 years. | 16:31 |
| alterego | If I met him in person, face-to-face and he was the size of a house, I'd still call him an idiot to his face ... | 16:31 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I bet you would. | 16:32 |
| alterego | The guy obviously has problems, I kind of feel sorry for him. Which is probably why I always feel bad after I lay in to him. | 16:33 |
| alterego | But I just can't help it. | 16:33 |
| RST38h | Feeling sorry for people you meet on the Net is a bad, BAD idea | 16:36 |
| RST38h | Actually, scratch "sorry" from that sentence. | 16:37 |
| alterego | Heh, fair point. | 16:39 |
| alterego | No one cares about me on teh internetz :( | 16:39 |
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| RST38h | alterego: Scratch "on teh internetz" too =) | 16:45 |
| alterego | rawr :( | 16:47 |
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| javispedro | I see that you've been bashing abill_uk already, dammit. | 17:19 |
| javispedro | (I am late ;) ) | 17:19 |
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| alterego | Heh | 17:21 |
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| alterego | It's okay joerg is on it. | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but I get bored about it | 17:25 |
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| javispedro | ignorance is bliss whereas little knowledge is dangerous, as they say. | 17:31 |
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| alterego | Heh | 17:32 |
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| *** chx is now known as chx_ | 17:32 | |
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| * javispedro waits for chx to decide between being a drupal irc owner or himself | 17:33 | |
| ruskie | lol | 17:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 17:33 |
| Necc | he? | 17:34 |
| ruskie | stop nick change spaming... | 17:34 |
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| Khertan | Hello ! | 17:34 |
| Necc | afternoon | 17:34 |
| javispedro | hi Khertan | 17:34 |
| Khertan | so what s new ? | 17:35 |
| alterego | Not a lot | 17:35 |
| alterego | A 2009 thread resurfaced and abill_uk is on it like a crazy person. | 17:35 |
| Khertan | lol | 17:36 |
| Khertan | tmo .... hum ... | 17:36 |
| javispedro | because abill_uk is an electical [sic] engineer, who would have known! | 17:36 |
| GAN900 | Craaaazzzyyy | 17:37 |
| Khertan | javispedro: electrical ... the guys which put power plug in new building and house ? | 17:38 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:38 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:38 |
| javispedro | no, electical as in a fictional brand of typewriters. | 17:38 |
| chx | sorry for the nick change, i was testing something. | 17:38 |
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| Khertan | I ve finally found an interesting use case for mBarCode ... | 17:40 |
| javispedro | alterego: remember that on your previous post you said "Originally posted by alterego"! ;) (this guy is crazy) | 17:40 |
| Khertan | providing information for blind people on product in market. | 17:40 |
| Khertan | but ... scanning the barcode could be difficult ... | 17:40 |
| alterego | javispedro: he failed at cut&paste obviously :) | 17:41 |
| javispedro | aaand he gives up. ok, you won =) | 17:42 |
| alterego | wooo! | 17:42 |
| alterego | I win again :D | 17:42 |
| * javispedro stops eating so many popcorn | 17:42 | |
| alterego | If only I believed it, he can't help himself. | 17:43 |
| alterego | He'll continue to try and get the last word .. | 17:43 |
| javispedro | heh | 17:44 |
| javispedro | my lightscribe burner has been producing... funny... results as of lately. | 17:45 |
| javispedro | misaligned, unwanted contrast changes... | 17:45 |
| alterego | The print? Or data? | 17:45 |
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| alterego | Oh, interesting. | 17:45 |
| alterego | Sounds likely an issue with the media, is it quite old media? :) | 17:45 |
| jacekowski | yeah, or touched | 17:46 |
| jacekowski | or things like that | 17:46 |
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| javispedro | might be... | 17:47 |
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| * ruskie grabs some popcorn and starts reading... | 17:49 | |
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| javispedro | the media I was using comes all from the same batch, so could be. it's mostly new though. | 17:51 |
| javispedro | data burns seem to be good. | 17:52 |
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| alterego | I thought the cool thing about the light scribes is they should last quite a long time right? | 17:52 |
| javispedro | depends on media and storage, they usually last around the same as the data itself | 17:53 |
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| javispedro | but contrast degrades a bit | 17:53 |
| alterego | I meant the actual drive. | 17:53 |
| javispedro | (and it is already low to begin with) | 17:53 |
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| javispedro | well dunno about the drives, so far the ones I have have been with average lifespans. | 17:54 |
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| * pupnik ponders what to bid for a n900 from berlin with intl keyboard | 18:12 | |
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| cos^ | pupnik: what's international keyboard? | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | qwerty? | 18:23 |
| pupnik | cos^: the one with 4 arrow keys | 18:24 |
| pupnik | hard to find in germany | 18:24 |
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| cos^ | i'd call it uk or us keyboard, as it is missing many keys | 18:25 |
| pupnik | ok | 18:25 |
| pupnik | i'll never understand the 3-row decision | 18:25 |
| cos^ | actually mine is one, but i use finnis layout | 18:25 |
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| cos^ | 3 rows is better than no keyboard | 18:26 |
| pupnik | yes, i even managed to use the shell with it | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | joerg_rw karma from activities: Itt-posts 17, Itt-thanks 303 :-D | 18:27 |
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| alterego | Heh | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: (He'll continue to try and get the last word ..) rrrrrright ;-P | 18:28 |
| alterego | Yeah, just say he did exactly what I said, I'm debating whether I want to reply. | 18:29 |
| alterego | I do like riling him up :) | 18:29 |
| * divan finished russian translation of the 'State of Maemo' manifesto. | 18:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, closed the browser window | 18:31 |
| alterego | Hah | 18:31 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 18:31 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Manifesto http://maemo.org/community/council/state_of_maemo-q12011-1/" | 18:32 | |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, try /cs topic #maemo newtopic, I started using that instead :p | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | evening javispedro | 18:33 |
| javispedro | hi MohammadAG | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: boring. Konversation has such a nice textedit window for it | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | I might be in Spain at summer for some project (related to the N900) | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | DUH | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, xchat too, but you don't have to op to do that | 18:34 |
| alterego | I think I just reached a new low on tmo | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | lol what's up? | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I know, but what's wrong with op'ing? | 18:35 |
| alterego | I'm suprised I don't get banned for some of the insults I throw at unabill-uk | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG | op + deop = two extra steps :p | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, the day you get banned is the day the mods execute the guy | 18:36 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 18:36 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | 4s wasted :p | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | c&p of topic, then edit in a nasty small one-line text input field that can't hold the whole string, THAT are really wasted seconds and extra steps | 18:37 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:38 |
| alterego | Can't you get xchat to use chanserv? | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | don't think so | 18:39 |
| divan | javispedro, hello. Are you the author of preenv? What is your advice about implementing that LD_PRELOAD stuff for game-specific hacks? Maybe add some env variable(which will be set before game launched) and env.sh will add the value of it to the LD_PRELOAD after the libsdlpre.so? | 18:39 |
| kerio | of course, /cs | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | heh, that's not the topic bar | 18:39 |
| javispedro | divan: I will work a bit on it today and tell you later. | 18:40 |
| divan | Ok. | 18:41 |
| javispedro | divan: my plan is not to overwrite LD_PRELOAD's contents. | 18:41 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | javispedro, rpath? | 18:42 |
| divan | You don't need to overwrite, LD_PRELOAD can load multiply libraries, separated by commas. | 18:42 |
| javispedro | that's what I'm saying. | 18:43 |
| divan | Ok, but what's other way to solve '/media/internal' problem(and maybe others in future), without acquiring root permissions? | 18:44 |
| alterego | create an empty dir there? :P | 18:45 |
| divan | alterego, it requires root. | 18:45 |
| alterego | divan: do it in your deb | 18:45 |
| alterego | installation requires root | 18:45 |
| alterego | Do it then ... | 18:46 |
| divan | alterego, the idea of application is to install apps and games directly from .ipk :) | 18:46 |
| alterego | divan: I know, and you have to install your application right? | 18:46 |
| alterego | So create the dir wwhen you install your app. | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | one time create /media world-writable | 18:47 |
| divan | javispedro, I can create .desktop shortcuts with own launcher (which will duplicate wrapper.sh and env.sh functionality), but I guess this is rude way. | 18:47 |
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| javispedro | divan: there's no "other directories in the future". it's /media/internal and /media/cryptofs. | 18:48 |
| divan | I'm not sure if it's single case only with this game. Other games may require other dirs or will need implementing more sophisticated hacks. I'd like to have universal way to solve such issues. | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd even strongly suggest to do that in a sane way, I.E. mounting it from eMMC | 18:48 |
| alterego | The proper way would run it in a pre chroot :P | 18:48 |
| divan | javispedro, so, your suggestion is to create such dirs during .deb install? | 18:49 |
| divan | these dirs* | 18:49 |
| javispedro | divan: and in case you didn't read me, I'd say I'm going to NOT overwrite LD_PRELOAD | 18:49 |
| divan | javispedro, I read you, but didn't get what you propose instead. | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | if only I could find out how to create and attach to threads a new tag | 18:50 |
| javispedro | divan: why should I propose something else, I'm accepting your solution! | 18:50 |
| divan | javispedro, wait, you just told that you don't want to deal with LD_PRELOAD solution... | 18:50 |
| * divan confused | 18:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | LD_PRELOAD=$LD_PRELOAD,$FOOBAR | 18:51 |
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| divan | with space, not comma | 18:51 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: that won't work because if -z $LD_PRELOAD, resulting var has syntax error | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah right | 18:51 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: however, I know how to write a bash script =) | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just want to make sure we're all on same page | 18:52 |
| javispedro | good point. | 18:52 |
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| divan | Ok got it. I'll wait for any updates on it. | 18:54 |
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| alterego | heh, got a new one. dis-abilled_uk | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL @ inabill_uk - now he's really up to operating temperature :-P | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | a pity there's that old rule "don't feed the troll" | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | in this case you're free to make an exception | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | even more a pity some will not obey it | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | he's kinda fun to watch | 18:57 |
| alterego | :) | 18:57 |
| trx | is that on TMO? | 18:57 |
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| alterego | I don't think he's a troll, I think I'm the troll.. | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet if nobody answered, inabill goes nuts | 18:57 |
| alterego | He has a special hatred for me. | 18:57 |
| javispedro | so, did he pee in his pants or what? | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, he's obviously not an engineer | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | s/engineer/troll o_O | 18:58 |
| alterego | And I purposefully use it. It's fun how everyone calls him an idiot, but he actually thinks we have some kind of secret group of anti-abill_uk members. | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | we aren't? | 18:59 |
| javispedro | we obviously are, here's to hoping he doesn't read logs ;) | 18:59 |
| alterego | Well, it's hardly a secret! | 18:59 |
| Sc0rpius | who's the idiot? are we talking about Elop or something? | 18:59 |
| alterego | And we don't don't plan and plot against him or anything :D | 18:59 |
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| javispedro | talk for yourself! | 19:02 |
| crashanddie | alterego, he has a special hatred for everyone | 19:02 |
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| crashanddie | link to the trollfest? | 19:03 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32864&goto=newpost | 19:03 |
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| javispedro | just wait until he opens the "replace 3430 with intel atom" thread. | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | meh | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | i got an i7 based on armel in my N900 | 19:10 |
| trx | lol | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, did you figure out who abill_uk is? | 19:11 |
| javispedro | a guy who thinks "Linux" is a programming language? | 19:11 |
| mikhas | damn, it's not? | 19:12 |
| Sc0rpius | oh my God | 19:12 |
| Sc0rpius | I swore to death it was a programming language | 19:12 |
| mikhas | sucks to be you, but I heard suicide is painless | 19:13 |
| javispedro | it is? dammit! | 19:13 |
| * javispedro quickly rewrites resume | 19:13 | |
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| mikhas | add Maemo to the list of your programming languages, too | 19:15 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah but put it with the same kind of dead languages like LISP, Fortran, Cobol, etc. | 19:16 |
| Sc0rpius | and Minix of course | 19:16 |
| trx | Maybe he is Elop? | 19:17 |
| trx | :) | 19:17 |
| * Sc0rpius grins | 19:17 | |
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| chx | lol this guy wants to *build* a cpu based on a *die photo* ? | 19:18 |
| chx | Good work | 19:18 |
| trx | "I was a hacker once upon a time" - Elop did some crazy shit in his time :) | 19:19 |
| * alterego sighs | 19:20 | |
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| MohammadAG | haha, you all suck | 19:23 |
| MohammadAG | I program in Linux and Windows! | 19:23 |
| Sc0rpius | nice | 19:23 |
| Sc0rpius | that's like PhD | 19:23 |
| Sc0rpius | though I really like .NET and C# | 19:24 |
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| MohammadAG | do you know how to program in Mac OS X? | 19:25 |
| javispedro | but .NET is not compatible with my hardware, it's missing the CPU Die Photo driver. | 19:25 |
| Sc0rpius | no, I'm anti-Apple 100% I don't even touch Apple things | 19:25 |
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| alterego | Hahah | 19:25 |
| Sc0rpius | if you hand me your iPod it will fall to the floor, I won't touch it | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: COBOL a dead language?? I got a job offer for COBOL just 4 days ago | 19:25 |
| alterego | The stuff you're saying is funny, but it still doesn't sound as stupid as him ... | 19:25 |
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| Sc0rpius | well it's dead, so you should take the job and ask for like $500,000 a year since almost nobody these days can remember it | 19:26 |
| jacekowski | Sc0rpius: what about orange things? | 19:27 |
| Sc0rpius | like what? | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: yeah, but alas it was gvmt and they pay TeV11 or sth like that, like 2400EUR/month | 19:28 |
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| Sc0rpius | hmm | 19:28 |
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| Sc0rpius | I wouldn't do it | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | me neither | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp since I had to relocate | 19:29 |
| javispedro | divan: maybe I should create the /media symlinks within the pre package | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not going to move, for like 30k€ p.a. | 19:30 |
| trx | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=952013&postcount=111 <-- haha | 19:30 |
| * javispedro realizes my rootfs now resembles that of a Pre more than that of a N900 ;) | 19:31 | |
| jacekowski | hmm | 19:31 |
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| jacekowski | are these omaps really compatible | 19:31 |
| jacekowski | as in same pinout | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you should mount (or bindmount) /media | 19:31 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I prefer not to create additional bind mounts (python-style) if a symlink proves to be enough | 19:32 |
| divan | javispedro, if you sure that only these two directories are used by WebOS games, then yes, it would be best soultion. | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: of course, sorry for noise | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: check my posts | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you're free to do the fancy that I don't have the hours/days not the mood to do | 19:33 |
| alterego | Hahah, classic: "Are you.... The One"" | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooops, 3 lines above s/ jacekowski / javispedro / | 19:33 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: =) | 19:35 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's just because then people complain that installing xxx increases the noise "df" outputs ;) | 19:35 |
| javispedro | a common python complain =) | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG | so besides the abill_uk post | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | anything exciting today? | 19:36 |
| javispedro | yes, the community finally agrees on something? | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | could it get any more exciting? :-D | 19:36 |
| javispedro | ! | 19:36 |
| javispedro | abill_uk sucks! | 19:36 |
| javispedro | ;) | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | hoorah! | 19:37 |
| nid0 | hasnt it basically agreed on that for quite a while? | 19:37 |
| javispedro | now let's build a proper government structure out of this common belief. | 19:37 |
| nid0 | or am I disagreeing by asking that? | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | you're disagreeing on the agreement that we all agreed that abill_uk sucks, who agrees? | 19:38 |
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| alterego | I disagree about agreeing | 19:40 |
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| MohammadAG | so you agree about disagreeing? | 19:41 |
| alterego | We should all disagree about agreeing to maintain a sense of democracy | 19:41 |
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| alterego | It'd be boring if we all agreed, | 19:41 |
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| MohammadAG | but when you disagree, you agree about not agreeing | 19:41 |
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| alterego | good | 19:42 |
| alterego | So we're agreed then | 19:42 |
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| pupnik_ | well i ebayed a n900 with US keyboard - hopefully it gets shipped | 19:45 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: congrats | 19:47 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: and welcome back to the club :D | 19:47 |
| pupnik_ | ty javispedro :) been too long | 19:47 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: you can get qwerty keymat, and swap. It's easy | 19:47 |
| javispedro | or just keep the US keyboard | 19:49 |
| * javispedro loves the 4 arrow keys =) | 19:49 | |
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| alterego | I didn't realise they had different keyboards. | 19:49 |
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| pupnik_ | yes keyboard is 19 euro + 2 euro for the torx | 19:49 |
| alterego | Is the UK one different to the Us one? | 19:49 |
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| pupnik_ | the german one only has 2 arrow keys | 19:50 |
| MohammadAG | the finnish keymat sucks | 19:50 |
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| pupnik_ | (others are mapped to FN keys) | 19:50 |
| MohammadAG | finnish is the same | 19:51 |
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| alterego | lame | 19:53 |
| alterego | You'd think they'd at least finish the finnish one. | 19:54 |
| alterego | Leaving to keys out, tututut | 19:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4370_Original-Nokia-N900-Keypad-QWERTZ.html | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | and yes, this SUCKS | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I swapped it by a qwerty aka US keymat | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4575_Original-Nokia-N900-Keypad-QWERTY--english-.html | 20:03 |
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| Venemo | hey | 20:04 |
| chx | mighty interesting how did you find those ? | 20:04 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I would buy an N900 keyboard if it matched my custom X kbd mapping | 20:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I suggested somebody starts selling aftermarket all black keypads, where you could mill or scratch or etch out the cars to your liking | 20:06 |
| Venemo | brb | 20:06 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, or a digital keypad, where the keys have an LCD behind them | 20:07 |
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| javispedro | abill_uk will make that for you. | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that'S a nice idea, but which bus you'd hook that up on N900? | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw I'd prefer e-ink over LCD | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, OMAP3 bus, the pinouts are the same | 20:09 |
| RST38h | Moo javispedro, how is life tonight? | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | I checked them a minute ago | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | change backlight to "frontlight" piped thru the clear key caps | 20:09 |
| javispedro | moo RST38h. "interesting" but for personal reasons :) | 20:11 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Interesting times? :) | 20:12 |
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| javispedro | ahead, yep :) | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | #121 LOL | 20:13 |
| javispedro | already at post 121? | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what a shit :-P | 20:14 |
| * DocScrutinizer declares http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32864 troll-thread of the week | 20:15 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | DUH SHIIITE it got deleted | 20:16 |
| javispedro | missed it :( | 20:16 |
| RST38h | Mhm,tmo is definitely hit by cancer | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | mario bro holding his nuts + a xray of a broken penis-bone (whatever that is :-P) | 20:17 |
| javispedro | RST38h: definitely. | 20:18 |
| MohammadAG | penis-bone? | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ammyt "ahh here you are" | 20:18 |
| * MohammadAG sues his biology teacher | 20:18 | |
| SpeedEvil | The penis bone is found in some animals. | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Dogs, and pinipeds, for example. | 20:18 |
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| MohammadAG | not humans though, I know :P | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Male ones, generally. | 20:18 |
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| MohammadAG | ^ statement of the year lol | 20:19 |
| alterego | Heh | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yay, tmo leaking ino irc | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | into* | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: some animals have penis bone | 20:19 |
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| jacekowski | hmm | 20:20 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil already said that | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | the x-ray didn't look like animal | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 20:20 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: how many cocks have you seen to judge that? | 20:20 |
| chx | DocScrutinizer: hm? the thread is still there | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeeeha HAIL irc-mod! | 20:21 |
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| * Venemo is back | 20:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer | 31 posts nuked - how sad | 20:23 |
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| Venemo | alterego: did you get home yet? | 20:25 |
| alterego | Venemo: Almost ;) | 20:26 |
| Venemo | alterego: :) | 20:26 |
| alterego | You'll probably have to wait another 1.5 hours though | 20:26 |
| alterego | Need to sort myself out some dinner and have a shower. | 20:26 |
| Venemo | no problem for me :) | 20:27 |
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| Venemo | interestingly, there are more people in #maemo than in #fedora | 20:27 |
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| ruskie | Venemo, not really surprised | 20:28 |
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| Venemo | ruskie: however there are significantly more in #fedora-devel than #maemo-devel :P | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, there are more users even in #openmoko-cdevel than in #maemo-cdevel | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | i didnt know maemo-cdevel existed :P | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | join it, you'll see it exists | 20:36 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :) | 20:36 |
| MohammadAG | what's cdevel? | 20:37 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: 'cdevel'? | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | Excellent, 5 lines of python code and I have realtime measurement of the building's power consumption. LED + phototransistor pointing at the spinning disc of electricity meter, 10 meters of serial cable :P | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | (also, does anyone know of possible reasons why my PC's lagging?) | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | keypresses aren't instant | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | comunity-devel, as opposed to #openmoko-devel which is closed and for OM affiliates only | 20:37 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 20:38 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: uninstall windows from it | 20:38 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder how I could run a proxy server on my laptop | 20:38 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, this is ubuntu | 20:38 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: that too | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nice hack | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, actually I got the hw from someone else, very simple, and came with a windows program.. | 20:39 |
| MohammadAG | does anyone know of a proxy server app for linux? | 20:39 |
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| MohammadAG | need to sniff something from the iPhone | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | it doesn't work under wine, and my Atom330 24/7 box is too slow to run XP and the utilty under qemu, so I figured I'd throw something together with gnuplot | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you could use a webcam and OCR ;-) | 20:41 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, this is simpler :-) | 20:41 |
| * SpeedEvil just used a webcam. | 20:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer | (which, btw is how German Telekom did their monthly billing, back in times of mechanical counters for landlines) | 20:41 |
| ShadowJK | I'm pretty amazed I realiably get a '\0' each time the red spinning marking makes Txd line drop | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, me too | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | this little hack needs a darn good optics, and calibration | 20:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and possibly a blue led, or - even better - laser | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, green of course | 20:44 |
| SpeedEvil | 'I don't know how the even teeth melted off the gear making my electricity consumption measure twice as low'. | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: o.O - there's an adjustment jumper sliding on a shunt, which will do just fine | 20:45 |
| ShadowJK | yeah it's green | 20:46 |
| ShadowJK | no optics | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's also a small jumper plate in the clamp box, to switch off the auxilary coil | 20:47 |
| ShadowJK | I had to mount it at an angle to avoid reflection from the transparent window | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaaah | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, it will reflect on the outer rim of that wheel only | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | as everything else is in plane to the glass | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's brilliant | 20:48 |
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| ShadowJK | The illuminated part is actually bigger than the hole for the disc, so I get a bit of reflection from the surrounding panel... So some fiddling to get the right amount of surround and disc, so that the red lowers reflected light just enough to trigger the transistors inside | 20:49 |
| pupnik_ | Well this was uncool - ebay seller gave an unregistered paypal account. | 20:49 |
| * pupnik_ hits 'cancel payment' | 20:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer | the disc is the only part in there that can reflect back to origin a lightbeam coming from side | 20:50 |
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| ShadowJK | diffuse reflections I guess | 20:51 |
| ShadowJK | light bouncing from my finger is sufficient :P | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | a focusing lens to spotlight just the disk would help a lot | 20:52 |
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| ShadowJK | or a separator beam between the led and the phototransistor thingy | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | separator wall | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | green laser ;-) | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | would work from other wall across the room :-) | 20:54 |
| LjL | N810's GPS is so terrible :( | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | just need exact aiming to the disk rim | 20:54 |
| RST38h | Sheep as smart as humans: Official | 20:54 |
| LjL | have been out 30 minutes twice, haven't got a fix | 20:54 |
| jaska | once took me approx 1 day to get a fix on n810 :) | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: there's something broken with supl servers of Nokia | 20:55 |
| trumee | pupnik_: link? | 20:55 |
| trumee | pupnik_: what is an "unregistered paypal account" ? | 20:56 |
| pupnik_ | trumee: to what? | 20:56 |
| trumee | pupnik_: just wondering how he was trying to dupe you. | 20:56 |
| pupnik_ | oh that's an email address without a paypal account | 20:56 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer: supl? | 20:56 |
| trumee | pupnik_: ah, ok | 20:56 |
| pupnik_ | according to my googling | 20:56 |
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| trumee | is there any ebay app in maemo. something which could do the auction for you? | 20:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LjL: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=884296&postcount=10 | 20:58 |
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| pupnik_ | trumee: i don't know. i told the seller that I would not send money to an unverifiable person. he can now send via C.O.D. or forget about it | 20:59 |
| RST38h | javispedro:*leonovo* | 20:59 |
| RST38h | lenovo. | 20:59 |
| trumee | anybody understand /etc/event.d, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=951226&postcount=361 | 21:00 |
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| trumee | perhaps i am modprobing the modules at a wrong time there | 21:00 |
| javispedro | RST38h: yes. now to look for replacements before the plastic scratches every single table I have. | 21:00 |
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| LjL | DocScrutinizer: eh i don't think i'm using AGPS in the first place, since i'm not connected on the N810 outside of my house | 21:02 |
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| Jartza | ouch | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, then it's generally hard to get a fix on N810. That's a known issue, which got fixed with AGPS-beta | 21:03 |
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| Jartza | does anyone know how n900 detects the keyboard open/close? | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | now AGPS stopped working with some of the supl servers, so we're back to pre-AGPS times | 21:04 |
| Jartza | is there some kind of magnet-switch or what? | 21:04 |
| LjL | trumee: do the auction for you... from a phone? are you sure that's a good idea? :p i mean, it could drop your connection at any time | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jartza: yes, magnet | 21:04 |
| LjL | trumee: why don't you use esniper from a server instead, or www.esnipe.com or something | 21:04 |
| Jartza | DocScrutinizer: do you happen to know where the magnet is supposed to be located? :) | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | somewhere above O P keys iirc | 21:05 |
| trumee | LjL: wouldnt want to share my ebay password with some webpage | 21:05 |
| Jartza | my other n900 doesn't detect keyboard open/close | 21:05 |
| Jartza | and the keyboard slider is really tight | 21:05 |
| trumee | LjL: perhaps there is some script floating around which i can stick on my server | 21:05 |
| LjL | trumee: a reasonable concern | 21:06 |
| LjL | trumee: there is esniper | 21:06 |
| Jartza | DocScrutinizer: ok. thx. | 21:06 |
| LjL | trumee: it's available on debian, and has no depends outside of libcurl anyway | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jartza: yeah, known issue. magnet gets loose sometimes | 21:06 |
| Jartza | have to open the device and check where the magnet is now :) | 21:06 |
| trumee | LjL: nice. will look into that | 21:06 |
| LjL | trumee: it's probably easy to port to Maemo in the first place, i guess | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jartza: might as well been above W E keys | 21:07 |
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| Jartza | DocScrutinizer: ok. have to check. | 21:08 |
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| Jartza | ouch | 21:16 |
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| Jartza | yes. the magnet is missing. | 21:17 |
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| Jartza | now I just have to find _where_ it is | 21:17 |
| vi__ | yo, is it possible to disable the yellow notifications for conversations? | 21:17 |
| vi__ | MohammadAG: yo man, you there? | 21:18 |
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| MohammadAG | hey | 21:18 |
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| trumee | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-12526271 | 21:19 |
| vi__ | hey man i have 2 suggestions for your hildon cssu mods | 21:19 |
| vi__ | 1. on quick double tap of 'task switcher button' go to last previous task | 21:20 |
| vi__ | i.e. when cam button double clicked swap to last task | 21:20 |
| vi__ | 2. a setting that allows us to disable thos yellow notifications for new conversation updates | 21:21 |
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| vi__ | i.e. when you receive an im dont show it in yellow bubble, just male the beep sound | 21:22 |
| vi__ | whaddya think? | 21:22 |
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| vi__ | sorry turns out notifications can be removed ala a gconf setting so scratch 2 | 21:25 |
| vi__ | suggestion 1 still stands | 21:26 |
| MohammadAG | I don't mind, but I'm currently sniffing the N8 so I'll see about it later :p | 21:26 |
| vi__ | nooo | 21:27 |
| vi__ | dont turn to the dark side geee | 21:27 |
| vi__ | we need you | 21:27 |
| vi__ | powerful the n8 it is | 21:28 |
| vi__ | but resist the darkside you must! | 21:28 |
| javispedro | the n8, powerful? ha! | 21:28 |
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| Jaffa | Shiny. But feels so closed and limited | 21:30 |
| Jaffa | I'm used to my always on IM, integrated services, rapid task switching, ... | 21:30 |
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| vi__ | actually with jbak taskman installed symbian becomes a whole lot more powerful | 21:32 |
| vi__ | immediate task switching | 21:32 |
| vi__ | rules foe individual programs | 21:32 |
| vi__ | shortcuts n shit | 21:32 |
| vi__ | infact i would go as far to say jbak taskman 'completes' symbian | 21:33 |
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| vi__ | e72+jbak taskman = mentally awesome phone | 21:33 |
| vi__ | now, with the irc plugin for conversations is there a way to autoconnect to a particular room? | 21:34 |
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| Venemo | vi__: irc plugin for conversations can't connect to channels | 21:37 |
| massoud | ehlo here | 21:37 |
| vi__ | so I have to manually connect to a chat room every time i go online? | 21:37 |
| vi__ | hello massoud | 21:38 |
| RST38h | Yes. | 21:38 |
| vi__ | lame | 21:38 |
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| massoud | since i upgrade my n900 kernel to (Linux Nokia-N900-02-8 2.6.28-omap1), i can t get my "iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING" to work | 21:38 |
| vi__ | kinda precludes its usefulness | 21:38 |
| RST38h | And you also have to type "I will not talk banal rubbish." three times every time you connect. | 21:38 |
| RST38h | AND SIGN IN YOUR OWN BLOOD. | 21:39 |
| Venemo | vi__: irc plugin for conversations can NOT connect to any channel at all. /join didn't work with it last time I checked | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: sorry dude, I was kinda out of my mind when I bitched at you last time | 21:39 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: dont worry lets just be friends! | 21:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fine :-) | 21:40 |
| massoud | iptables v1.4.6: can't initialize iptables table ` | 21:40 |
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| vi__ | massoud: afraid i dont know anything bout iptables but that error possibly implies your 'table' is broken | 21:42 |
| vi__ | oh wait | 21:42 |
| vi__ | you changed your kernel? | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik iptables is not supported on stock kernel of N900 | 21:42 |
| vi__ | back to stock? | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need powerkernel | 21:43 |
| vi__ | you need power kernel to run iptables | 21:43 |
| vi__ | bah, beaten to it | 21:43 |
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| massoud | vi__: no way to have iptables to work from my current kernel ? | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen noobmonk3y | 22:01 |
| infobot | noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust164.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 4h 58m 23s ago, saying: 'Basically , the phone/messaging part is buggered and has been for weeks, really annoying me :P'. | 22:01 |
| MohammadAG | I thought he left | 22:01 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: why would he leave? | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | haven't seen him in a while so | 22:02 |
| vi__ | ~seen vi__ | 22:04 |
| infobot | vi__ is currently on #maemo (6m 46s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 2s, last said: '~seen vi__'. | 22:04 |
| Sc0rpius | heh | 22:04 |
| vi__ | whooa | 22:04 |
| vi__ | massoud: as far as i know yes | 22:05 |
| vi__ | massoud: if you want iptables install powerkernel from dev repo | 22:05 |
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| vi__ | massoud: you understand? | 22:07 |
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| LjL | i think i'll flip a coin to decide whether or not i like the N810. i can't make up my mind :P | 22:16 |
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| Venemo | LjL: I know you like it | 22:16 |
| an0therb0x | can anyone help me with the camera on n900 | 22:17 |
| LjL | maybe... but come on, GPS's that take hours to lock! :P | 22:17 |
| Venemo | an0therb0x: what help do you need? | 22:17 |
| Venemo | LjL: it was high tech in 2007 :) | 22:17 |
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| LjL | also, GPS's that don't actually have working navigation software for them :( | 22:18 |
| an0therb0x | Venemo: my camera no longer works just says "operation failed" | 22:18 |
| LjL | but then again, *if* i manage to inject my own NMEA sentences into it, and drive it using wifi geolocation, i'll be a happy man! :P | 22:18 |
| Venemo | an0therb0x: what did you do to it? | 22:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Mine did that too. | 22:19 |
| Venemo | LjL: sounds nice | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Reflash fixed it | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | No, this is not a good way to debug | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | an0therb0x: | 22:19 |
| an0therb0x | I re-flashed with 1.3 | 22:19 |
| Venemo | an0therb0x: don't overclock; uninstall unstable horseshit and if it's still not okay, reflash. | 22:19 |
| *** timeless_ is now known as timeless | 22:19 | |
| Venemo | an0therb0x: reflash both rootfs and eMMCC | 22:19 |
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| LjL | Venemo: it almost works, at least if i use minigpsd. but it seems programs need more sentences than i'm giving them, to actually be convinced there is a fix (so now i'm feeding them "replay" data from the real GPS to fool them :P) | 22:20 |
| an0therb0x | Venemo: i am not evening using any extra-dev repos , just standard included repos | 22:20 |
| Venemo | an0therb0x: mhm | 22:20 |
| Venemo | an0therb0x: well then take your N900 to warranty repair | 22:20 |
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| an0therb0x | venemo: my warranty has expired but I will try and reflash both rootfs and eMMCC again . i thing the mobile hotspot with the enhanced kernel may be the issue | 22:22 |
| pupnik_ | LjL: if you can figure a way to 'manually assist' a GPS lock on N810 you will be AN HERO | 22:22 |
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| Venemo | an0therb0x: how the could it expire? now N900s are 2 years old yet | 22:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: Not inthe EU | 22:23 |
| Sc0rpius | not MINE | 22:24 |
| Sc0rpius | my N900 is just 1 year old | 22:24 |
| Sc0rpius | :P | 22:24 |
| LjL | pupnik_: uhm, that's not really what i'm trying to do though, i'm only trying to provide an approximate location to replace the GPS. isn't that what A-GPS Beta does, anyway? | 22:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | hey I still see N900s in the stores in the street. I was in a mall last saturday (2 days ago) and I saw an N900 retail box in a store | 22:25 |
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| Sc0rpius | Amazon still sells them as well | 22:25 |
| Venemo | I meant, "no N900s are 2 years old yet" | 22:26 |
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| an0therb0x | Venemo: i got mine December 2009 unfortunately 1 year warranty is up , by the way any voice gps available for it | 22:27 |
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| timeless | halp | 22:30 |
| timeless | how do i get /etc/apt/trusted.gpg? :) | 22:30 |
| timeless | sp3000: ideas? :) | 22:30 |
| timeless | i got keys to mxr :) | 22:30 |
| pupnik_ | LjL: yes i just didn't know there was a way to 'hint' the gps manually - kudos if you can get that working | 22:31 |
| * timeless gives up and cheats | 22:31 | |
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| timeless | ok, so... hrm | 22:39 |
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| timeless | should i give up and just let debian manage packages? | 22:39 |
| * timeless really doesn't like that idea | 22:39 | |
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| luke-jr | quick, any reasons to stay with PR1.2? | 22:55 |
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| MohammadAG | no | 22:56 |
| MohammadAG | install 1.3 then 1.3.3.7 :P | 22:56 |
| LjL | bleh. i had valid NMEA data from GPS, then i accidentally removed them by running gpsd on them with the wrong parameters... :( and now i can't get a fix | 22:57 |
| LjL | perhaps i'm expecting a bit too much from my window | 22:57 |
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| LjL | but i really don't feel like going outside just to get stupid NMEA sentences from the sky :P | 22:57 |
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| luke-jr | nm, apparently impossible as I don't use Windows | 22:58 |
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| Venemo | alterego: what's up? :) | 23:09 |
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| FIQ | ok, seriously | 23:24 |
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| FIQ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67378 ok, a problem, no need "ME TOO :(((((((((((((((((((((((" x238957 | 23:24 |
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| frals | hmm, wonder why http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51890 is tagged with "bada rulez" "bada rox" | 23:25 |
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| lcuk | frals, obviously it was a typo, s/bada/frals/ | 23:26 |
| frals | must have been ;-) | 23:27 |
| lcuk | hows the temp in /fi tonight? | 23:27 |
| lcuk | . | 23:27 |
| frals | -15ish i think | 23:28 |
| frals | just heading to bed now :) | 23:28 |
| frals | nn o/ | 23:28 |
| lcuk | \o | 23:28 |
| FIQ | ugh | 23:29 |
| FIQ | it was -23 yesterday morning here | 23:29 |
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| FIQ | /europe/sweden/stockholm | 23:29 |
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| * timeless sighs | 23:34 | |
| * timeless hates apache conf | 23:34 | |
| timeless | anyone want to help me? | 23:34 |
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| vi__ | serious discussion on tmo | 23:35 |
| vi__ | 'bout swapping the n900 processor | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | any git experts around? | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | vi__, that's far from serious lol | 23:36 |
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| FIQ | hmmmm | 23:36 |
| FIQ | interesting PS3 directory you have, MohammadAG | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | let the flames start, got my asbestos underwear on | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | :p | 23:37 |
| vi__ | docscrutinizer what is your tmo name | 23:38 |
| FIQ | nah, don't really care | 23:38 |
| vi__ | ? | 23:38 |
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| wmarone | vi__: not as serious as abil_uk's conniption :) | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | the one where there's my irc name written in signature | 23:38 |
| vi__ | ...cunning | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:39 |
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| * timeless defeats apache (mostly) | 23:40 | |
| Venemo | alterego: ping | 23:40 |
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| c0ffee | salut | 23:55 |
| pupnik_ | o/ | 23:55 |
| alterego | Venemo: don't think I'm going to have a chance today, I promise I'll look at it first thing tomorrow. Sorry :( | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi 12648430 | 23:56 |
| c0ffee | took you a while to look this up :) | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, I actually got a shortcut | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 23:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw the UTF8 char is called "hot beverage" ;-D | 23:58 |
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| lcuk | or more commonly known as "little square in my irc window" | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 23:59 |
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