IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-02-20

jacekowskiif it's a phone00:00
ieatlintor i guess 1777 for the sticky bit00:00
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MohammadAGGuess I'll have to reinstall00:01
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MohammadAGwhich is something I'm not doing /me goes back to fixing00:02
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* ieatlint sues xenu00:07
comawhitelolcat: I heard from someone that it's the paid one that gets it not the free one =\00:09
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trumeetimeless, lol00:10
MohammadAGwhy does it show 100% used on /00:10
MohammadAGwhen size is 114GB and Used is 109GB00:11
timelesstrumee: the only entity you can't sue in us federal court is the US Gov, it has to consent to be sued00:11
timelessalthough it seems that if you try to sue god, you'll be dismissed00:11
trumeetimeless, crazy00:12
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timelessnote that the court was ok with the target of the suit :)00:14
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timeless in case people are curious about the other part00:17
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: 5% root exclusive?00:23
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DocScrutinizertimeless: I'm sure I don't want to know more than I do, about US' fucked up justice and laws00:24
timelessDocScrutinizer: soverign immunity is a fairly standard thing00:25
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timelesstry suing a king in his country..00:26
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, good point00:26
MohammadAGmy / is actually full then00:27
MohammadAGthat was the cause00:28
MohammadAGthanks DocScrutinizer00:28
Corsactimeless: must be the reason why I'm king of my castle00:28
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javispedroso you can't use god because it has sovereign inmunity?00:53
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, better than the rest of the planet, still, at least. :P00:57
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* javispedro thought God was american after all ;)00:58
timelessjavispedro: you can sue god00:59
timelessit's just that the courts will more or less laugh you out00:59
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timelessnote that foreign sovereigns don't have immunity :)00:59
timeless(china just got sued)00:59
ieatlintyou actually can sue the US gov for some things01:01
ieatlintpeople have done it, for instance, to remove "in god we trust" from our money01:01
timelessright, when it waves immunity01:01
jacekowskiieatlint: well, then you are suing yourself01:02
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ieatlintuh, pretty sure the US gov didn't wave its right there01:02
jacekowskiieatlint: isn't it that you are suing "the people" then or something01:02
ieatlinthmm, an interesting distinction, perhaps01:03
ieatlintthe gov lawyers typically represent "the people"01:03
timelessis the suit ieatlint references01:04
ieatlintyeah, he also did the pledge of allegiance, as referenced there01:04
ieatlintbut non-god related suits are common.. we infamously challenge the legality of laws all the time, for instance (like gay marriage bans, for recent headlines)01:05
ieatlinti think there are just restrictions on suing for damages01:06
ieatlintinjunctions are allowed methinks01:06
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GAN900ieatlint, or used to.01:10
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GAN900(represent the people)01:10
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ieatlintwhen was that? :P01:10
GAN900ieatlint, right after the Constitution was first ratified to right before the Whiskey Rebellion01:12
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GAN900Potentially arguably under the Articles of Confederation, too.01:13
GAN900But that was a different government.01:13
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till|anyone got he .deb file for the pidgin-n800-led plugin? the repository seems to be down :/01:14
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Ken-YoungWorst. Video.  Game. Ever.02:01
Ken-Young~ping ~pong with infobot.02:01
infobotpong ~pong with infobot.02:01
infoboti heard foo is bar02:02
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DocScrutinizerbackup-menu is fsckdup, booting with kbd slide open spits out some cryptic msg "cp /usr/lib/liblzo /tmp/usr/lib error" or the like, then device shuts down :-/02:04
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DocScrutinizerluckily it boots flawlessly when slide closed02:06
derf"If it hurts, don't do that."02:07
DocScrutinizermeh, going to update it02:08
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korhojoaDocScrutinizer: it uses lzo to compress the backups, i guess02:19
korhojoaand for some reason, it's not available?02:20
DocScrutinizeryep, but I think it did that before, and I also haven't updated it or otherwise changed sth with liblzo or backup-menu02:20
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DocScrutinizerwell, updated it now, it installed liblzo and up'ed fro 0.60 to 0.63, now it works again02:21
DocScrutinizerooops 0.6202:22
DocScrutinizersays menu screen02:22
DocScrutinizerstill no way to bootup a normal system with slide open02:23
Juozapashow to take a screenshot ? cant remember keys combination02:25
psycho_oreosCtrl+ Shift+ P02:25
DocScrutinizerI mean, how hard can it be to quit the backup-menu process same why on pressing enter that it would when slide is closed02:25
korhojoaDocScrutinizer, yeah. that would be nice02:27
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Juozapasmaybe there is grr developer here?02:31
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Ken-YoungJuozapas,  What is grr?02:31
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Juozapasprogram for google reader02:32
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Sc0rpiuswhen was the last update pushed?02:35
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Sc0rpiuswrong channel anyway02:40
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lolcatcroppa: :(03:59
lolcatcomawhite: :(03:59
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rbritoHi there. I recently (well, quite recently) got me a N900, since it is based on Debian (well, I am a Debian Maintainer for about 3 years) and I would like to hack my packages.05:17
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luke-jrrbrito: it's not based on Debian really.05:26
luke-jrrbrito: also, Maemo is dead, and only 45% open source05:26
chxi thought much higher percentage :/05:27
luke-jrwell, unlike earlier models, at least N900 has most of the drivers open05:28
luke-jronly exception is 3D accel I think05:29
luke-jrso … you can run Gentoo! :P05:29
luke-jror port Debian05:29
chxluke-jr: this pretty much makes it a Debian based system isnt it05:29
luke-jrchx: it's a dpkg/apt-based system, but it doesn't use Debian's packages05:29
chxwell, Debian packages can be modified to run, no?05:29
luke-jrdue to its closed nature, it's also unmaintainable by anyone but Nokia, who have terminated it05:29
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luke-jryou can take Debian package sources, and build them for it05:30
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rbritoIs there any way of cross-compiling things without putting "alien" programs on my system? I would like, as much as possible, to use what the distributions have so far, and, if not available, upload them to Debian's repository...05:33
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rbritoluke-jr, Well, I bought it thinking that it were. :-(05:37
luke-jrrbrito: somehow N900 gets misrepresented a lot, without Nokia actually false advertising :/05:37
luke-jrwell, not just N90005:38
luke-jrall the earlier models too05:38
rbritoluke-jr, well, since I already bought it, I am willing to squeeze the most that I can from it.05:38
budfiveIt the closest you can get with phones you can buy, though05:38
budfiveby far05:38
luke-jrrbrito: want to use Gentoo with me? :P05:38
luke-jrbudfive: NITs are not phones, kthx05:39
budfivewhat's NIT?05:39
chxnokia internet tablet05:39
rbritoluke-jr, I bought it for the main purpose of being a smartphone, not an internet tablet. :-)05:39
budfivehaha. ok05:39
luke-jrrbrito: then you're likely to be VERY disappointed :P05:40
chxit's an internet tablet with a phone crudely bolted on05:40
rbritoI actually don't even know what *is* an internet tablet...05:40
budfiveit's a phone :)05:40
luke-jrrbrito: all the earlier models don't even support GSM ;)05:40
rbritoluke-jr, yes, that I knew... But not much else.05:40
luke-jroh well, it works if you want a combination half-decent phone, half-decent camera, half-decent GPS :p05:41
rbritoAnyway, I am interested in writing some software for this thing. What would you people recommend for someone that already packages stuff for debian proper?05:41
luke-jrbut not if you want a proper smartphone, or quality camera, or useful GPS05:41
luke-jrrbrito: just use Qt and it should work :p05:41
rbritoluke-jr, I am interested to know about the peculiarities of the packaging...05:42
budfiverbrito: you can build packages in much the same way you'd build them for a real Debian box05:42
budfiverbrito: download the sdk from nokia, and you're set05:42
rbritobudfive, what about the recommended cross-compilation environment?05:42
luke-jrrbrito: the real problem is that Maemo is unmaintained, and someone needs to replace it05:42
budfiverbrito: yes. get that and it's stock enough05:42
rbritobudfive, how much of the SDK is already (approximately) available as packages?05:43
budfiverbrito: the sdk itself isn't a package as I recall. It uses scratchbox05:44
rbritobudfive, for instance, they say that I should download stuff using a script, but I see that Debian already has scratchbox. Is there anything different from Nokia's scratchbox from the Debian packaged version?05:45
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rbritoI would like to avoid having as many packages as possible from places outside...05:45
budfiverbrito: yeah, I know how you feel. As I recall using the scratchbox from debian directly didn't work for me. Let me check. It's been a little while05:46
rbritobudfive, Ah, thanks for that clarification.05:46
rbritoI see that Debian has scratchbox 2.0 packaged.05:46
rbrito(Actually, the version is 2.0-3.1).05:47
rbritobudfive, what's the basic procedure for generating a package, once I have the software written? Just prepare my package as usual and build it with scratchbox?05:47
budfiverbrito: yes05:48
budfiverbrito: the "sdk" is scratchbox + debs of the core system05:48
budfiverbrito: so you build a package normally from inside scratchbox05:48
budfiverbrito: I don't have it installed anymore, so I'm looking on the web. Can't find it for some reason05:49
rbritobudfive, great. I wish that the instructions were as clear as you... :-)05:49
budfiverbrito: oh. I DO have it installed :)05:51
rbritobudfive, Does the SDK contain non-free software?05:51
rbritoI see that I would have to accept an EULA... :-(05:51
budfiverbrito: as others have said, it uses apt, dpkg, but it's NOT debian05:51
budfiveit's not ideal05:51
rbritoI would like to avoid that, as much as possible.05:51
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budfiveyou'll have to forfeit much of the stock functionality then05:52
rbritobudfive, Oh, I thought that it was an exaggeration of not being Debian. :-)05:52
rbritoI see... I think that I will just download it, then and have a dirty system. :-(05:52
budfiverbrito: it's not THAT dirty05:53
rbritoWhat do the non-free parts include? Anything essential for a basic "Hello, World" application?05:53
budfiveeverything goes into /scratchbox05:53
budfiveso it bypasses the package manager, but you still know where everything is05:53
rbritobudfive, Well, less bad.05:53
budfivehighly unideal05:53
budfiverbrito: the "normal" installation method of the sdk grabs a huge blob of packages from nokia. the blob contains some open and some not open things05:54
budfiverbrito: the stuff you need for a "hello world" is open, but you'll have to get it all yourself05:54
budfiverbrito: but you can always run stock debian or gentoo or whatever05:54
budfiverbrito: you'll lose much of the phone-ness of the device, though05:55
rbritobudfive, I see... :-( In my general workflow, I usually grab stuff through an approx cache, so that I can install the software in many computers that I have here.05:55
rbritoThe phone part for me is essential...05:56
budfiverbrito: yeah. you really should just grab the sdk to see for yourself what's open and what isn't05:56
rbritoI guess that I will cope with things and just grab that SDK.05:56
budfivesupposedly you can run FSO,SHR on the n900 if you want. You'll have a phone, but not a very nice one05:57
rbritoThanks for the clear answers that I could not find right from the sites, BTW.05:57
budfiverbrito: yeah. It's not as open as could be, but it's by far the closest you can get without rolling everything yourself05:57
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rbritobudfive, Yes, I saw that the other options were much worse regarding openness... :-(05:58
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budfiveever looked at the openmoko? :)05:58
rbritoAnd given that we have git repositories of some of the things, that's great.05:58
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rbritobudfive, I tried to buy a Freerunner, but I couldn't find one here where I live.05:59
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rbritoOh, a silly question: what does osso stand for? :-)05:59
budfiveno idea05:59
rbritoI reached the same conclusion. :-)06:00
rbritoOpen Source ...?06:00
budfiverbrito: I gotta go. good luck06:00
rbritoOK, just installed xserver-xephyr.06:01
rbritobudfive, thank you so very much for your clear answers.06:01
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DocScrutinizercan somebody explain to me the two fork() in there please
DocScrutinizerwhy two?07:13
DocScrutinizermy suspicion is in direction daemon, but I don't really see what it does rsp why it's needed07:15
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DocScrutinizerI understand it forks and parent waits for child to exit. child forks again, then parent of that fork exits07:17
ds3I think the goal there is to make sure init owns the process07:18
DocScrutinizerooh, how does that happen?07:18
ds3if I read that correctly, it causes it to be considered orphaned which causes an assignment to init07:18
DocScrutinizeryeah, that'S probably it07:19
ds3normally, if you fork(), you have to wait() on it or it'll be stuck in the Z state07:19
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DocScrutinizerI missed to paste the setsid(); as last line. This makes it clear07:32
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DocScrutinizeractually   setsid(); close(0); close(1); close(2); do_something()07:33
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ds3yes, that'd make more sense07:38
DocScrutinizerthanks again07:39
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DocScrutinizerjust one more question: which #include imports function 'event' ?07:43
DocScrutinizersched.h ?07:44
DocScrutinizeror is that a reserved word in c?07:49
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DocScrutinizerseems I can't find it in #include <errno.h> #include <fcntl.h> #include <sched.h> #include <signal.h> #include <unistd.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <sys/mman.h> #include <sys/wait.h>07:54
budfiverun only the preprocessor with 'gcc -E'. then look at the output to see where it came from07:58
DocScrutinizerhehe, yeah I'd do that if I were compiling this little progie, but I'm just reading source atm07:59
budfivegrepping my /usr/include give many matches :)08:00
DocScrutinizertooo many08:00
DocScrutinizeralready did that08:00
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budfivecscope says.....08:03
budfivelots of various event variables, but no global "event" function08:03
budfiveyou suspect it's a system thing? not X or gui or anything?08:03
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DocScrutinizervoid quit_loop(int event) {    running = 0;    (void)event; }08:09
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DocScrutinizerso I guess I know what it does, but I have no idea where it comes from08:10
budfiveDocScrutinizer: (void)event is a function call?08:11
DocScrutinizerlooks like to me08:11
budfivec or c++?08:11
DocScrutinizerwell, not exactly a function, as I'd expect event(); then08:11
DocScrutinizercould be a #define as well08:12
budfivenot a function call08:12
budfiveit's valid C by itself, but (void)event; does nothing08:13
budfiveyou need () to make it a function call08:13
DocScrutinizerit's most likely a call to scheduler to tell "I'm done" without really exiting the process08:13
budfiveif it was a macro, the "int event" argument would be expanded to something weird08:13
budfiveis the full source open? can I have a look if it is?08:14
DocScrutinizerit's a parameter - darn08:14
DocScrutinizerI should stop and take some chill time08:14
budfiveI can imagine some trickery where it's also a global something and the compiler can resolve the overload, but more likely it doesn't do anything08:15
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DocScrutinizerit's probably the standard way to exit a signal-handler08:16
DocScrutinizercalback as parameter to a callback :-)08:16
budfive(void)event doesn't do anything08:16
budfivegive that snippet to a compiler08:16
budfiveit may as well not be there08:16
budfivei get it08:17
budfiveit's to prevent a "variable unused" warning08:17
fralshmm, wonder why shows 992k downloads but adding " gives 1.1M08:17
budfive(void)event doesn't do anything08:17
budfivebut without it the compiler would warn you that the "event" variable (argument to the function) isn't used08:17
budfivelook at the -Wunused parameters to gcc08:18
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DocScrutinizerwait a minute (/me reading man 2 signal)  if ( signal(SIGTERM, quit_loop) == SIG_ERR )08:22
budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ gcc -Wextra -Wall -o tst.o -c tst.c08:27
budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ md5sum tst.o08:27
budfivee2659ec7813dd12c84f260f514ad06e7  tst.o08:27
budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ perl -pi -e 's/\(void\)event//g' tst.c08:27
budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ gcc -Wextra -Wall -o tst.o -c tst.c08:27
budfivetst.c: In function ‘quit_loop’:08:27
budfivetst.c:38: warning: unused parameter ‘event’08:27
budfivedkogan@smart:/tmp$ md5sum tst.o08:27
budfivee2659ec7813dd12c84f260f514ad06e7  tst.o08:27
budfiveI compile your file. then I remove that line and compile it again08:27
budfiveboth times the generated output is the same (identical md5 hashes)08:28
budfivebut without the (void)event, there's a warning08:28
DocScrutinizerheh, OK :-)08:30
DocScrutinizerc is really friggin weird, you can write complete nonsense08:35
budfiveask the compiler when in doubt :)08:36
budfivealso for this particular instance, __attribute__((unused)) is much more appropriate, and less obscure08:37
DocScrutinizerwell, this seems to be a dirty hack anyway, even signal() is explicitly deprecated08:38
DocScrutinizerbtw it's from bootmenu, if you wonder08:38
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DocScrutinizerbootmenu itself is similarly weird, the examples make no proper use of the bootmenu.d/* logic08:39
budfivesounds about right08:39
DocScrutinizeri.e. bootmenu.conf iterates over all the files in bootmenu.d/* to collect menu items. But the examples bootmenu.conf.N8x0.example which are supposed to go to this bootmenu.d/ directory don't use the index var $menu_count as in >>eval MENU_${menu_count}_NAME=\$ITEM_NAME<<, rather they use hardcoded MENU_2_NAME="Internal MMC card, partition 2, ext2"08:44
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DocScrutinizerand backupmenu is using this bootmenu.d/backupmenu.conf to never return and instead drawing its own menu :-P08:51
DocScrutinizeran incredible mess08:52
DocScrutinizerand all this headache just to implement[2011-02-20 01:25:59] <DocScrutinizer> I mean, how hard can it be to quit the backup-menu process same why on pressing enter that it would when slide is closed   <korhojoa> DocScrutinizer, yeah. that would be nice08:54
DocScrutinizerat least I can understand now why robbiethe1st hasn't implemented this improvement-request yet :-D08:56
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robbiethe1st:D I love this phone. 13 web pages, 15 windows, and it's still fairly snappy.09:48
togglesor wp7?09:52
robbiethe1stMaemo, of course09:53
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Pr0ni need some help with my nokia n90010:27
keriowho doesn't10:27
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DocScrutinizerNokia is publishing linux driver for moorestown: --- Meego device not based on OMAP?10:33
robbiethe1stPr0n: what's up?10:34
Pr0ntrying to get bluemaemo working10:34
Pr0nsays i need some packages10:34
robbiethe1stDevel's enabled, right?10:35
Pr0nwhats that10:35
Pr0nprobally not10:35
Pr0nefl-core , python2.5-efl-core , python2.5-ecore , python2.5-edbus , python2.5-evas , python2.5-edje10:36
Pr0nthats what it says are missing packages10:37
RST38hDoc: this may not be related to the upcoming device in any way10:37
RST38hDoc: Just to the work on Meego that they are supposedly doing with Intel10:38
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budfivewait... the upcoming Meego device is NOT based on an Intel chip? I thought that was Intel's whole angle10:43
psycho_oreosupcoming meego device from whom? nokia?10:44
budfiveis there some other?10:44
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budfiveI haven't been paying very close attention10:44
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slonopotamusX-Fade: there are some troubles with curl :/ i think it needs to be removed10:45
psycho_oreosintel released their own tablet which is intel atom based, fujitsu will be releasing their netbook with meego, that's going to be atom based. nokia killed their own n9 which may run on atom processor but the devel work was ported to n900 as initial releases of n9 were arm based10:46
slonopotamusX-Fade: and no, i didn't reupload it10:46
psycho_oreoserr nokia killed their n9 hardware :p10:46
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budfivethey killed the n9? The main announcement they made said they will be releasing a meego something this year. That's not assumed to be the n9?10:47
psycho_oreosthey do intend to release a meego device but nobody knows the ramifications, nokia signed a deal to be microsoft's bitch10:48
psycho_oreosthat's old news10:48
budfiveyeah. sure.10:49
slonopotamus any ideas what to do with it?10:52
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divanGuys, which WebOS games are perfectly playable on n900? I.e. doesn't require multitouch, etc. NFSU is the first example/11:53
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jacekowskidivan: it's all in wiki12:26
sezuan_Is it possible to buy the games without a WebOS device?12:27
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jacekowskiyeah, torrents12:28
sezuanthat's not the answer that I wanted to hear ;)12:29
psycho_oreoswell you asked for it :p12:30
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sezuanthat's true.12:32
demute_I accidently removed the package mp-fremantle-pr, can someone please download it for me and send it? I will give you free google searches for the rest of your life12:35
psycho_oreosfree google search? lolwut12:36
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demute_how could I miss that? thank you!12:39
jacekowskiyou can just apt-get it12:39
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demute_jacekowski: it's not that simple12:40
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psycho_oreosit actually is pretty simple12:41
psycho_oreosso now where my free google search for my entire lifetime? ;P12:41
demute_psycho_oreos: here's your free search: htpp://www.gooogle.com12:42
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: so now wheres my free google search for my entire lifetime? ;P12:42
psycho_oreosdemute_, lol fail12:42
* psycho_oreos is so gonna that :p12:43
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demute_where the hell is the download button? ;)12:47
* psycho_oreos isn't going to bother answering that because he got ripped off ;p12:49
* demute_ feels stupid but hey come on, has anyone else tried to remove that package? (dont)12:50
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* psycho_oreos has removed that package in favour of CSSU, hence mp-fremantle-community-pr12:51
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phrykhi there13:15
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phryk/home/user/MyDocs gets mounted readonly, this is set in /etc/fstab (-rodir). I tried deleting that part and rebooting, but the system restores the old fstab...13:17
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trumeephryk, perhaps it need an fsck13:18
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demute_phryk: look in /etc/event.d/rcS-late, that file overwrites fstab13:20
bistonanybody here knows how wifi-switcher's popup is changed from interactive to passive ?13:20
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bistoni'm trying to do the same to ssh-switcher but it's the same command in both scripts and ssh-status.sh13:21
bistonprint_msg "SSH started" "OK" & print_msg "WLAN DISABLED" "OK"13:21
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bistoni thought it was here where it's modified13:21
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xDaReaperxHi is the Community SSU stable to install ?13:28
xDaReaperxi checked the Wiki , i was a bit confused13:29
Ken-YoungxDaReaperx, I think the official answer is no, but I've installed it and have had no problems (that haven't been fixed).13:29
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Ken-YoungThe initial version messed up some keyboard shortcuts like cntrl+shift+P = screengrab, but that was fixed a white ago.13:30
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fralshappy bday lcuk! \o/13:52
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* jonwil has run out of things worth reverse engineering14:13
lcukthanks frals \o/14:16
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lcukjonwil, then forward engineer some fixed and functionality into liqbase for me please :)14:16
jonwilwhat do you need? :P14:17
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SpeedEviljonwil: What about the first level - simply replacing the little wifi widget with one that shows signal leve?14:17
lcukjonwil, I need most of the stuff to work14:17
* lcuk has poor fingers14:17
jonwilI tried to reverse engineer the relavent bits of the wifi widget and got nowhere14:18
jonwildue to all the cruft that is libconnui14:18
lcukjonwil, on MeeGo, there is a component called connman14:18
lcukit does not support ad-hoc wifi14:18
lcukbut the lower levels do14:18
lcukthere has been an open bug about it since moblin days14:19
jonwilThats on MeeGo, not Maemo. Not going touching MeeGo at all :)14:19
lcukand brought into meego tracker14:19
lcukthats a shame, lots of r&d happening there :)14:19
SpeedEviljonwil: ah14:19
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jonwilI was planning to reverse engineer the dialer app (at least anything external it talks to that isn't a GUI call or a basic system function) but I never got anywhere because its far too complex14:20
jonwileven the Notification app was too complex14:21
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jonwilthe connectivity UI is too hard to reverse engineer (i.e. the status bar widgets, control panels etc etc etc)14:22
* lcuk does not like reverse engineering and will just try to build stuff14:22
SpeedEvilI wonder what'd be involved in ripping out the connectivity stuff.14:23
jonwilEven the SMS libraries (libsms etc) proved too hard14:23
jonwildo you mean ripping out the CSD daemon and the cell stack14:23
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jonwilor the ICD daemon and the internet bits14:23
SpeedEvilThe IP connectivity, and just using 'internet is up' and 'internet is down' hooks14:23
jonwilor both?14:23
SpeedEvilI suppose also too involved?14:23
jonwilso you mean replacing the ICD daemon?14:24
jonwilThat might be possible14:24
jonwilfiguring out what talks to it14:24
SpeedEvilSo you can do stuff like have it connect through a VPN, and know it's connected, or tether backards, or ...14:24
jonwilSome of that could be done by writing new ICD network plugins AFAIK14:25
jonwilThe hardest part is going to be identifying what the icd daemon and its plugins expose to the upper layers14:27
Venemo_N900jonwil: what's the status of cbsms?14:27
jonwilgoing nowhere14:27
jonwilsee bug 8347 for the details of why14:27
povbotBug Cell Broadcast Feature not available14:27
jonwilAlso see bug 1087014:28
povbotBug Open source libsms and libsms-utils14:28
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jonwilso yeah replacing the ICD daemon is not at all easy14:31
jonwil The fact that the icd2-doc package is so great does help though14:31
jonwilI suspect the GPRS plugin would be one of the hard parts14:32
trumeehow can i use lxp injection driver on boot-up. I placed the module load script in /etc/event.d but lost the list of APs in the applet14:32
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jonwilfiguring out what it talks to in the CSD GPRS plugin14:32
jonwiland figuring out what it exposes to higher levels14:32
trumeeatm i have to manually load the wlan drivers after bootup14:33
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trumeeand lxp drivers seem to give less choppiness for sip14:34
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trumeePerhaps i should load the drivers after the applet which enumerates the AP has loaded14:35
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jonwilso yeah all the things I wanted to reverse engineer have hit brick walls14:37
jonwiltoo complex to reverse engineer14:38
jonwilat least for me14:38
jonwilmaybe an ARM Linux ASM guru might have more luck14:39
jonwilbut I have given up on most of these things for now14:39
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jonwilIf leads anywhere then maybe I will use anything comming out of that as a way forward14:39
jonwilto try and reverse engineer more stuff14:39
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ruskiejonwil, you sure are optimistic...14:41
jonwilSomeone was going to push that through to the right people at Nokia14:41
jonwilI forget who off the top of my head14:42
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ruskieconsidering the great success this had in the past...14:42
Venemo_N900jonwil: I thought you had it working14:42
jonwilnope, I dont have Cell Broadcast working14:42
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jonwilI am able to dump the low level packets comming from the cellular modem14:42
jonwiland observe proper Cell Broadcast messages in those packets14:42
jonwilbut there is a bug inside libsms/csd-sms that prevents things from getting through the cell stack14:43
Venemo_N900jonwil: so what stops us from creating a cell broadcast displayer desktop widget for example?14:43
jonwilwell getting through the stack properly14:43
jonwilthe issue is that talking to the cell modem by bypassing the cell stack wont work14:43
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Venemo_N900so how did it work for you?14:45
jonwilI was dumping the data flow manually with tcpdump14:45
jonwiland getting a raw dump of data comming from the cell modem14:45
jonwilnot an option for real-world use14:45
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jonwilOur only option is to work WITH the CSD daemon14:46
jonwilwhich means we either need Nokia to help14:46
jonwilor we need someone with guru ARM ASM skills to step forward and help reverse engineer stuff14:46
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jonwilespecially all the functions in libisi and elsewhere that need to be reverse engineered14:46
jonwili.e. figuring out how to call them14:48
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jonwilunfortunatly, ARM ASM gurus seem to be thin on the ground around here :P14:48
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jonwilAlso note that I do NOT intend to use any hacks to get this working such as binary patching the closed source library (or in-memory patching it)14:50
jonwilThose are hacks and are not the Right Way to do things :)14:51
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Venemo_N900jonwil: so find a Nokia employee who wants to leave the company because of "black friday" and worked on Maemo and has access to the code14:54
jonwilI dont particularly want to break the law either (and using code released by a Nokia employee without permission from Nokia breaks the law, copyright and probably also trade secrets also)14:55
psycho_oreostruth be told that in cases like these, nokia needs a big slap across its face for pissing off the maemo community. Granted, they may file up complaints/lawsuits if their rights were demolished14:58
jonwilI think really all the arguments for not open sourcing a fair whack more of Maemo have vanished (except for the argument about the time taken to do so)14:59
* psycho_oreos thinks qwerty12 reverse engineered that fmtx thingy14:59
jonwilThere are still legitimate reasons not to open source some parts of the system15:00
jonwilincluding BME15:00
psycho_oreosthe irony is that many owners are facing their devices soon to be out of warranty15:00
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psycho_oreosthat and when things break without much hope, they are left inevitably to either sell or throw it away15:01
jonwilbut all the reasons for not open sourcing, say, the cellular stack or the internet connectivity daemon or any number of other bits of middle-ware have all gone away now IMO15:01
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MaKaIs there any way to restore deleted files or folders in maemo?15:02
psycho_oreosthere are testdisk and the like15:02
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MaKabut i don't fine that package in devel15:03
MaKaany idea?15:03
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psycho_oreosif you haven't got it installed and the files you want to recover sits inside the rootfs or /home/user, your chances may become very minimal15:04
psycho_oreosespecially rootfs15:04
MaKai deleted the folder espeak inside /opt which was being used by mstardict15:05
MaKathough i have now reinstalled all these mstardict,qstardict,espeak and espeak caller,i still cant use the mstardict15:05
MaKaThe error being shown is failed to load espeak-data15:06
psycho_oreosunfortunately /opt is bind to /home/user. You might be able to umount /home/user in theory and then dd that partition.15:07
psycho_oreosso you've accidentally deleted the files and directories and you've tried to reinstall those?15:07
* psycho_oreos facepalms15:08
MaKathe thing is before i deleted the directory,the espeak installation was removed..15:09
MaKaBut still i cud see the direcftory inside opt so i tried to free up some space..15:09
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psycho_oreosconsider the chance of recovering deleted files very very slim15:10
psycho_oreosread what file recovery is supposed to do15:11
MaKabut now i re installed all the utilities.. but no luck..15:11
psycho_oreosindeed, now go read what file recovery actually does15:11
MaKai could see the folder /opt/espeak/data been created newly. but there is not phontab file/folder in it..15:12
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MaKayeah will do that..15:12
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MaKawhere can i find the working version of advanced power monitor?15:16
MaKaI find the one in repo is not working and it just is of 14kb size which seems to be weird..15:17
psycho_oreosits supposed to be working, if not then you can try reinstalling it which should bring the battery icon display up15:18
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fwixI need a little help to create a .deb package15:53
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fwixI've generate tar.gz using py2deb15:53
fwixand installed sdk on my station (debian)15:54
fwixwhat have I to do now to generate on my station a .deb from the files generated on my n900 ?15:55
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RST38hWell. Moo.15:58
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LjLi don't suppose anyone has GeoClue packages that work under OS2008 (given there are for OS2007)?16:00
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pupnikthe e71 is still a great phne16:29
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trxhow can i check which packages are available to autobuilder?16:38
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: could you please refresh my memory about the keyboard lights? (communi doesn't keep logs :( )16:49
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MohammadAGVenemo_N900, what about them?16:54
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: how to turn them off from the command line16:54
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: DocScrutinizer told me on my previous train journey16:55
MohammadAGfor x in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb$x/brightness; done16:56
MohammadAGI guess16:56
Venemo_N900btw, I've just noticed that the slider of my N900 became twisted :(16:57
MohammadAGyou may want to disable engine316:57
MohammadAGecho disabled > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode16:58
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Venemo_N900what's that?16:58
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MohammadAGthe keyboard lights engine17:01
MohammadAG echo disabled > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode && for x in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb$x/brightness; done17:01
Venemo_N900could you please pastebin this?17:02
MohammadAGremember that mce will turn on the engine everytime the screen's locked, so without a daemon, it's impossible to keep it off17:02
Venemo_N900last time I just modprobe -r'd the leds-whatever module17:02
MohammadAGthat will also disable the RGB light17:03
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Venemo_N900thanks MohammadAG17:05
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LjLthere isn't a public build facility for Maemo so i don't have to install the huge SDK to compile something, is there? :P17:09
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alteregoLjL: extras-devel ?17:10
Venemo_N900LjL: it isn't that bad.17:10
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Venemo_N900LjL: you could try the autobuilder, but for efficient work I'd definitely recommend installing the sdk17:11
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LjLalterego: stuff is built for you there? any hard requisites to apply?17:11
LjLVenemo_N900: well right now i'd simply like to try compiling Groove, a N900 app, for OS2008 (which should be doable since it has no particular dependencies)17:12
Venemo_N900LjL: what's your problem with the sdk?17:12
alteregoLjL: it needs to have debian packaging as part of it.17:12
LjLVenemo_N900: that scratchbox alone requires more than 1gb. i currently don't have 1gb free :P17:12
Venemo_N900LjL: lol17:13
Venemo_N900LjL: well I guess it was quick for me because I already had Scratchbox from the the Maemo 5 SDK17:13
LjLoh well i'll try to find things to delete :P17:14
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LjLVenemo_N900, by the way, the latest OS2008 version of Puzzle Master did something strange for me... the first time i ran it, everything locked up for a while and eventually complainted i was out of memory (or storage, not sure which one the dialog actually meant). subsequent times it worked alright, though.17:15
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Venemo_N900LjL: interesting, it didn't happen to anyone else (that I know of)17:18
Venemo_N900LjL: puzzle-master doesn't use any storage besides the size of the executable and the settings file17:18
LjLi suspect it was really about the RAM. i conjectured maybe you were doing some kind of one-time initialization that took up a bit of resources...17:19
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alteregoHeh, LG are releasing phones with a "facebook" buttong.17:34
Venemo_N900LjL: puzzle-master uses only as much memory as your image of choice needs at 800x480 :)17:37
Venemo_N900LjL: plus the GUI of course17:38
alteregoI've managed to do some huge optimization with my OpenGL and Qt UI hybrid work :)17:38
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Venemo_N900alterego: yeah, puzzle-master also uses 3D accel on the N90017:39
Venemo_N900alterego: however LjL talked about the N8x0 version which obviously doesn't use opengl17:39
alteregoI was just saying :)17:40
MohammadAGalterego, any progress on the video window? :p17:40
Venemo_N900using the gpu frees up lots of cpu resources17:40
Venemo_N900however interestingly, some of the stuff that puzzle-master does are actually slower on the gpu :(17:41
alteregoMaybe you're doing it wrong :P17:41
alteregoWhat things in particular?17:41
Venemo_N900I managed to optimize it lots17:41
Venemo_N900but the drop shadow effect seems to have a huge perf impact17:42
alteregoHrm, how are you doing it?17:42
Venemo_N900alterego: I read a performance benchmark from rasterman17:43
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Venemo_N900it seems that in alpha blending and such things, the GPU performs a LOT slower17:43
Venemo_N900search on this page for "image data argb" and "image blend"17:45
RST38hSo, anything new and exciting?17:45
Venemo_N900RST38h: try the new version of puzzle-master17:46
MohammadAGRST38h, new cat video on youtube OMGZ17:46
RST38hMohammad: lol yeah17:47
RST38hVenemo: Screenshots? =)17:47
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RST38haha, found it17:49
RST38hwhy not make those pieces puzzle-shaped though? =)17:49
MohammadAGRST38h, just wondering, ever considered one-click URL opening?17:49
MohammadAGinstead of tap n hold + click context menu17:49
Venemo_N900RST38h: it is planned :) but I haven't had the time to implement yet17:49
RST38hMohammad: Yea, I have been thinking of this17:50
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RST38hMohammad: BUT, on the other hand, there is a plenty of use cases when you just want to copy damn url, rather than open it (example: you hate MicroB performance and would like to copy URL to Opera)17:50
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Venemo_N900RST38h: then set opera as the default browser with browser switchboard17:51
MohammadAGRST38h, well, keep tap-n-hold to show the context menu17:52
MohammadAGbut use one click for quick opening17:52
timelessone click to navigate is actually a really bad thing in mobile17:52
timelesssince on average you don't want to click on the thing you hit :(17:53
* RST38h is not sure how to make this work in XChat17:53
Venemo_N900timeless: :P17:53
RST38hthat too, but still it is a valid use case17:53
timelessVenemo_N900: i'm not kidding :(17:53
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MohammadAGdoesn't gtk have clicked() and hold() signals?17:53
MohammadAGor whatever they're called17:53
Venemo_N900timeless: on my part, some practice could make this better :)17:54
RST38hno longer remember: I study gtk onstrictly need-to-know basis17:54
alteregoI've sort of given up on Gtk in favour of Qt17:54
MohammadAGwell, qwerty12 had something like that in simple-brightness-applet17:54
Venemo_N900timeless: I mean, after using N900 for a year, the number of my accidental click are reduced to 017:55
MohammadAGtap-and-hold I think17:55
alteregoWhich is a shame, because gnome tech is more widespread17:55
timelessVenemo_N900: really?17:55
MohammadAGI only click accidentally on capacitive screens17:55
Venemo_N900timeless: well maybe not 0, but I very rarely click something I don't wanna click17:55
MohammadAGwell, except the iPhone keyboard17:55
Venemo_N900I don't use onscreen keyboards17:56
Venemo_N900I haven't seen a virtual keyboard that doesn't suck yet17:56
MohammadAGtry it17:57
MohammadAGthe keyboard is epic17:57
Venemo_N900iPhone? never! ever!17:57
MohammadAGthe keyboard, not the OS17:57
MohammadAGi don't typo on it17:57
MohammadAGautocorrect sucks though17:58
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Venemo_N900ok. how do I try iPhone keyboard without iPhone os?17:58
MohammadAGtry it on a friend's device :p17:59
Venemo_N900I don't have friends who have an iphone :(17:59
Venemo_N900anyway, swype seems quite okay to me; I've never had the chance to try it yet though17:59
MohammadAGI'm not sure I can use swype18:00
MohammadAGi always find myself clicking instead of swyping18:00
MohammadAGswiping isn't natural to me18:00
MohammadAG(even though it's faster)18:00
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Venemo_N900until a year ago, touchscreens weren't natural to me :)18:01
MohammadAGI had a pocket PC years ago (6680 times)18:01
Venemo_N900I didn't18:01
Venemo_N900N900 is my first touchscreen device18:01
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MohammadAGthe N97 was my first TS phone18:02
Venemo_N900actually N900 was the first TS device on the market which I didn't find a waste of money18:02
Venemo_N900yea, you told me how much you disliked the N9718:03
Venemo_N900I actually kinda liked the exterior of the original N97. the os, not so much18:03
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* cehteh wonders why nokia not just continues to build nice hardware and then offers the choice for the os to the customer .. android, meego, symbian, wm7 ... 18:05
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MohammadAGI'd like an N9 with MeeGo 1.118:05
Venemo_N900cehteh: +118:05
MohammadAGeven though 1.1 sucks18:06
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: 1.1 sux badly18:06
cehtehmaybe some OS'es could be marked as "unsupported" .. like wm7 :P18:06
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cehtehwell and not evey os has to be available for every phone .. just as long maintaining drivers is feasible18:06
* RST38h would like N9 with Harmattan. No need for Meego.18:07
MohammadAGand it'll continue to suck so long there's no hardware to develop on18:07
MohammadAGHarmattan works fine for me too18:07
MohammadAGdeb ftw!18:07
cehteh(but on the other side, building hardware which requires less specialized and maintenance intensive drivers would be a pro to)18:07
RST38hFor all I can see, this dive into Meego craze has been a plot by Symbian Nokians to keep Maemo from succeeding18:07
RST38hMohammad: deb, rpm, who cares18:08
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: until MeeGo doesn't have support for 1) ARM power management 2) proper phone calls well until then it's really just a joke18:08
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MohammadAGVenemo_N900, you can't do either without devs18:08
cehtehanyways ... i dont care, i will not buy a nokia phone because its a nokia phone .. my next phone has to be as free as the n900 *at least* .. no matter who builds it18:08
timelessVenemo_N900: you used too many negatives18:08
timeless'until' + 'doesn't'18:08
RST38hMohammad: But the switch to Meego took resources from Harmattan and didnotproduce any tangible result18:08
Venemo_N900actually I find rpm to be more advantageous for mobiles18:08
alteregoI don't see how you can call it a joke.18:08
timelessRST38h: sure it did, we got delays18:08
alteregoIt's under development ffs :P18:08
timelessthose were tangible18:09
MohammadAGit's not a joke18:09
MohammadAGit lacks devs18:09
* timeless is serious18:09
MohammadAGwhy? cause it lacks a device18:09
timelessVenemo_N900: sadly we aren't promising rpm :)18:09
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RST38hRPM has an advantage if you are a commercial app developer18:09
korhojoahow so?18:09
timelessRST38h: also, meego didn't really get much of our resources18:09
timelessa small number of people were assigned to look at or track meego18:09
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RST38hkorhojoa: Apparently you can distribute encrypted RPMs18:10
timelessthe rest continued to work on maemo6^Wmeego-like18:10
RST38hCannotdo the same with DEBs without jumping through some weird loops18:10
korhojoaencrypted rpm:s? whut18:10
Venemo_N900timeless, RST38h: I find deltaRPM support the reason why rpm is good for mobiles18:10
MohammadAGi fear work on maemo 6 is kept on a git server running on /dev/null18:10
korhojoacan't you just stick a deb in a encrypted archive?18:10
timelessVenemo_N900: doesn't .deb have a delta format?18:10
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: :D18:10
timelessi've never seen it used, but iirc it does have some vague support for something18:10
RST38hVenemo: Well, maybe, although I do not have any problems with package sizes, WiFi is free.18:10
Venemo_N900timeless: have you seen it action?18:11
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timelessno :)18:11
timelessRST38h: i'm often unable to get free wifi :(18:11
korhojoatimeless: well, use scripts in it18:11
Venemo_N900timeless: I heard about it, but then why don't you use it on Maemo?18:11
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Venemo_N900timeless: delta downloads are a big win for bandwidth18:11
RST38htimeless: Neither am I, but I usually install stuff when at homeor at work18:11
RST38hFree wifi in both cases18:12
timelessVenemo_N900: the people who designed the update process were um.. handcuffed18:12
korhojoatimeless: ? :D18:12
timelessand ham was designed as a *simple-minded* ui18:12
Venemo_N900timeless: when I download updates for Fedora, the delta support usually spares me 90% of the bandwidth18:12
MohammadAGHAM's UI is fine18:12
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MohammadAGthe backend isn't18:12
* RST38h wonders if HAM has been designed at all18:13
timelessMohammadAG: yeah, i mean the middle/backend18:13
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timelessRST38h: technically it was18:13
Venemo_N900timeless: no need to mention such a feature in the gui.18:13
ZogGham is awesome18:13
ZogGu[pdates are awesome18:13
ZogGlife are awesome18:13
ZogGpeople are pigs18:13
RST38hwith some hash browns, yes18:13
timelessZogG: life is generally singular or a mass noun (singular). so life <is>18:13
korhojoaZogG: you forgot pigs aren't always people though18:13
MohammadAGtimeless, "is*" is shorter18:14
ZogGlife is18:14
timelessVenemo_N900: plus testing becomes more complicated18:14
pieter_hey guys godda problem  - translation not working anymore, clock, calendar..18:14
* RST38h procmails the whole to /dev/null18:14
ZogGMohammadAG, not searching for shortcuts18:14
timelesspieter_: what locale are you using?18:14
ZogGtimeless, i don't give a f... i'm russian18:14
Venemo_N900timeless: Red Hat, a smaller company than you, managed to get it working, so you could too.18:14
ZogGin soviet russian english speaks you18:14
timelessVenemo_N900: err18:14
ZogGpieter_, use english18:15
ZogGtranslations are baaaad18:15
pieter_Worked fine (dutch)18:15
pieter_but i might have left my debian sqeeze repo on while installing other things18:15
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Venemo_N900timeless: please tell us one thing (if you can). is there still some device that's coming from you guys with Harmattan onboard?18:15
RST38hMeanwhile: Google's Native Client almost 'ready for takeoff,' ready to make ActiveX look visionary18:15
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ZogGpieter_ dutch what country dutch?18:15
timelessredhat has ~3200 employees18:15
timelessmaemo never had that many18:16
pieter_now clock says wdgt_va_24h_time18:16
pieter_no belgium18:16
* RST38h hopes Maemo/Meego Devices survive for another 3-9 months18:16
timelessVenemo_N900: there was still a harmattan project/program as of friday18:16
Venemo_N900timeless: oh, sorry18:16
BCMMRST38h: why 3-9 months?18:16
Venemo_N900timeless: that's good to hear :)18:16
RST38hBCMM: Because there is a bigprobability Elop will be fired by New Year18:16
timelessRST38h: by whom?18:17
ZogGBCMM, funtoo is fun. though i have a question how do i make gentoo portage to use git?18:17
BCMMRST38h: he has been from nearly everywhere else, right?18:17
MohammadAGI'd rather hear he's fired at18:17
RST38htimeless: the board, the shareholders, who cares?the right question is WHY18:17
BCMMZogG: dunno, i use Gentoo18:17
pieter_ZogG: trying to figure out what package is causing this and reinstall it18:17
timelessRST38h: there's aa good writeup you should read18:17
BCMMZogG: i think git portage is a funtoo-only thing18:17
pieter_can you give me a hint?18:17
ZogGBCMM i was talking about gentoo18:17
Venemo_N900timeless: another question is, can we expect Nokia to give the N900's modem's drivers/specs to the MeeGo project?18:18
ZogGBCMM, i like portage in funtoo more18:18
BCMMZogG: oh. i think the answer is to use funtoo...18:18
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RST38hOnce he fails to deliver a WP7 device by christmas,OR it does not sell in the US, the shareholders will start getting jittery18:18
ZogGBCMM, i do on funtoo18:18
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Venemo_N900RST38h: let's hope you are right18:19
timelesswell worth a read18:19
BCMMZogG: i think mainstream portage doesn't have git sync capability18:19
RST38hThey will get especially jittery if he fails to produce any semi-likeable Symbian/Maemo/etc devices in a year18:19
BCMMZogG: also, there may not be a git server for regular portage18:19
ZogGit has but not by default i think18:19
timelessRST38h: i'm pretty confident that his arrangement w/ the board/shareholders gives him a bit over  a year18:19
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timelessno reasonable person could expect a real turnaround in under a year18:20
timelessand even a year is pushing it18:20
timelessVenemo_N900: i don't know anything about hardware18:20
timelessand i wouldn't play an expectations game18:20
Venemo_N900timeless: driver is software, not hw.18:20
RST38htimeless: they arenot reasonable people. Hell mosto f them are not even people!18:21
RST38htimeless: reasonable people would never let this crap happen, not without somekind of plan B18:21
BCMMRST38h: in any case, Elop has a track record of screwing stuff up such that it stays screwed-up when he's gone18:21
timelessRST38h: there is a plan b18:21
timelessand it's quite obvious18:21
BCMMthat was a joke...18:21
RST38hBCMM: Yes, he is responsible for Office ribbons:)18:21
Venemo_N900timeless: just asking because the MeeGo guys said that the mess around the telephony features are because Nokia didn't provide them drivers nor specs18:21
RST38htimeless: And which one is it?18:22
BCMM(well, "nokiaplanb" was18:22
BCMMRST38h: really? wow.18:22
timelessRST38h: i don't think it's for me to say, but it is obvious18:22
RST38htimeless: You can /msg if you wish18:22
timelessRST38h: just read 3 articles from the site i linked18:22
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RST38hI think I know what it is, but it is just a continuation of plan A to me18:22
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RST38hThis guy is too chatty for me, can't read this much18:23
timelesshe's still worth the read, even w/ the dozens of typos18:25
SpeedEvilHmm. Plan B. Beos?18:27
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kerionokiaplank ftw18:32
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RST38hAfaik, what is assumed to be a real plan B is actually bad for shareholders18:33
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RST38hAlthough I may be wrong, not a Wall Street regular18:33
RST38hSo, no, in the eyes of shareholders that will most likely still be a fuckup =(18:34
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alteregoI thought this was already plan b18:35
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alteregoPlan A was MeeGo18:35
Venemo_N900kerio: nokiaplane was my favourite18:35
pieter_okay getting desperate here18:36
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pieter_if i open a windows the language is fine but changes to some sort of system language after a second18:36
pieter_and the calendar doesn't work18:37
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Venemo_N900pieter_: I recommend using the word 'please'18:39
Venemo_N900pieter_: back up all your data and reflash your device18:39
infoboti heard flashing is
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Venemo_N900pieter_: this should help you18:40
pieter_I don't understand reflash?18:40
pieter_oh i'll take a look at that18:40
pieter_I think the word thanks goes18:41
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pieter_I mean thanks18:41
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Venemo_N900pieter_: reflash means resetting everything in your device, basically18:42
pieter_I understand18:43
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pieter_So basicly your using the computer to flash the N90018:46
pieter_does it take a while?18:46
Venemo_N900pieter_: yes. back up your data before doing it18:47
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: your script doesn't work18:47
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: it only turns of the leds for some keys, not all18:48
keriopieter_: it takes like 2 minutes18:48
RST38hBombs: The cheaper the movie, the more probable it is that it will be an atomic bomb.18:48
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: 'modprobe -r leds-lp5523' then 'modprobe leds-lp5523' actually did turn it off18:50
RST38hPhones: All have the same ringtone. Always break when the main character absolutely needs to make a call.18:51
Venemo_N900RST38h: no, because Dr. House did set a different ringtone for his team18:51
RST38hComputers: The display will always blow up when computer breaks.18:52
Venemo_N900RST38h: lol18:52
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RST38hTV: When the main character is near a TV, the set will always be showing either a) young couple making love in a bed or b) perfect family with two children having lunch18:55
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RST38hScientific Equipment: Will *always* blow up, eventually, even if it is just an electron microscope.18:57
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RST38hTracking Devices: Track subjects with <1m precision and show them with red blinking dots. Sometimes, showthe complete 3D building structure as well.18:58
pieter_what verion to use (flash image) i'm in belgium18:59
Venemo_N900pieter_: always use global19:00
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pieter_Use Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 ?  or latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900?19:05
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: edit /etc/mce/mce.ini, delete the keypad reference in modules= line19:08
DocScrutinizerstop, start mce19:08
DocScrutinizeror - my suggestion - set the keypad timeout down to 1s, even try 0s19:10
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DocScrutinizeror rename /usr/share/mce/modules/ o whatever it's called, restart mce19:11
timelesspieter_: you should use the latest global release19:13
timelessand then consider whether you want to try community ssu19:13
pieter_oi you just stopped me19:13
pieter_PR 1.3 instead of OS200919:14
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DocScrutinizercould somebody good at git and kernel patches etc please check and thread&patches, and tell me if I'm right with my conclusions and esp if there's ANY hint ANYWHERE about what particular type of hw platform and controller this patch is meant for. Thanks!19:54
DocScrutinizermoin javispedro19:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: that driver seems to expect someone else providing the functions to read/write regs19:56
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DocScrutinizerand only faint clue I found about that supposedly used hw microcontroller that actually speaks to AV button, was some I2C addr of iirc 0x6D19:57
javispedromaybe wait for the rx-51 kernel ;)19:58
DocScrutinizerso we got a moorestown platform with one I2C-bus that has a chip on addr 0x6D that does all the analog line wiggling19:59
javispedroah, there's more patches19:59
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'd appreciate if you could have a 5min look at it, and spot the bits I missed (like e.g. commit comments that clearly say what a hw platform and what chip at 0x6D this is for)20:00
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: also I wouldn't mind you sharing all the URLs of further bits related that you may find20:02
* RST38h moos at javispedro evilly20:02
javispedromoo RST38h20:03
javispedroDocScrutinizer: nah, I think you get them all on the LKML link20:04
DocScrutinizerV3 0123/320:04
DocScrutinizeralso V220:04
DocScrutinizerprolly also V120:04
DocScrutinizerso that's one thread with 4 posts holding 3 patches plus some other file20:05
DocScrutinizerif there's more, please toss URL20:05
javispedroyeah, there's more20:05
javispedroup to v7 seemingly20:05
javispedroI gather from the discussion that it is a custom uc.20:07
* javispedro ponders how to make a http link from a nntp/gmane thread..20:07
DocScrutinizerpaste >150 char string here, for unique google search20:08
javispedroerr, better:
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javispedroalso interesting are posts on the v6 thread:
DocScrutinizerI'm planning to introduce second controller later. Both controllers are i2c-devices, but internal way of working is totally different.20:11
DocScrutinizerso yeah, this is worthless for "us"20:11
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bistoncan i get a more verbose boot ouput from my n900 instead of the streaming dots ?20:15
MohammadAGbefore X starts, framebuffer, after it starts, not really20:15
bistoni tried giving it the --boot=single as i do on my centos from maemo-flasher... didn't change a thing though20:15
MohammadAGin your case, X started20:16
bistonokay then is there a way to stop X from starting?20:16
bistonusing flasher?20:16
MohammadAGthat, I'm not sure of20:16
bistontime to google20:16
bistonthanks for the tip20:16
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bistonah, runtime level20:16
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DocScrutinizerI really wonder what's wrong with tapio.vihuri, to nowhere mention the type or build or label or whatever of that ""In this case it's microcontroller in I2C bus,""20:26
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DocScrutinizerthat's not a driver for ECI, that's a driver for ""microcontroller in I2C bus <unknown>"" and that uC is talking to ECI equipment20:28
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DocScrutinizerthat's kinda like calling a driver for bq24150 battery gauge LiIon-driver20:30
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DocScrutinizerit either is RX91-ECI.ko, or ECI-atmel888051foo.ko20:34
DocScrutinizerbut both names would reveal too much about what Nokia is actually doing ATM, I guess20:36
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DocScrutinizerthough for RX51/N900 there've been drivers long before the device was shipped or even announced, and their names were more sane20:37
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alteregoEek, only got 5G free20:44
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* GAN900 keeps having to clear out space to copy pictures.20:54
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GAN900Remember when a 1GB HD was, like, the most amazing thing in the world?20:55
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lcukGAN900, first HD I had was 250mb20:55
lcukquantum 2.5inch thingy20:56
SpeedEvil60 here20:56
SpeedEvilWas that loud...20:56
lcukthe Manchester Mark I had programmable storage space of 1kb20:56
lcukthe guy giving the presentation asked how much my device had lol20:56
SpeedEvilIt woke parents when started at night through 2 closed doors20:56
DocScrutinizerlcuk: HAH, my first computer has 2k20:56
lcukDocScrutinizer, the manchester Mark I was more than room sized20:57
SpeedEvilMy first also 1K20:57
lcukwith valves20:57
* lcuk got great close up photos20:57
alteregoMy first HD was 10Mb20:57
alteregoDon't remember.20:57
trumeeyeah 10Mb for me too20:57
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: well, when zx80/81 became affordable, I bought a 16k expansion right away with it20:57
trumeelcuk, that rings a bell20:57
lcukholy crap, 16x more memory!20:58
trumeelcuk, winchester.20:58
GAN900lcuk, 50MB20:58
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SpeedEvilI still have some of the gear out of the closing of RoDime.20:58
DocScrutinizermy first computer was a NASCOM-1 though, which I assembled and soldered myself20:58
Arkenoi20Mb was mine20:58
SpeedEvilWhich factory is ~4 miles from here.20:58
SpeedEvilWell - it was.20:58
* lcuk used a single sheet of paper20:58
GAN900Getting a 75MB SCSI Macally drive made my year.20:58
lcukDocScrutinizer, how long did that feat take you?20:58
trumee1.44 Mb floppies were the most unreliable thing20:59
lcuk1.44 were quite stirdy20:59
trumee360K floppies were much better20:59
lcukit was the real floppies that weren't20:59
trumeelcuk, 1.44Mb developed bad sectors all the time20:59
lcukyou shouldv used Amiga ones then, 1.76mb on those badboys21:00
MohammadAGmy first HDD was 5GBs21:00
* RST38h had 160k floppies21:00
trumeei hated those. Real floppies were much better for me21:00
lcukand MFM encoded21:00
MohammadAGand that wasn't the largest size around21:00
* MohammadAG cries21:00
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RST38hand 40MB HDs21:00
trumeeRemember used to use Norton Disk Doctor on them daily21:00
lcukmy zx spectrum ran on audio tapes21:00
DocScrutinizerlcuk: some 2 weeks iirc21:00
trumeeto get rid of the bad sectors21:00
lcukalways a choice between saving work or making a mix tape21:01
lcukmany an innovative app was lost to the top 4021:01
MohammadAGI never saw tape drives21:01
* RST38h had autodio tapes too, 1MB per tape21:01
trumeeMohammadAG, same here21:01
MohammadAGfirst OS I used was Windows 3.0121:02
RST38hlcuk: choice? what choice? ofcourse it was saving work21:02
RST38hMohammad: Too young :)21:02
lcukRST38h, you could keep your computer powered up and running for a while, the top 40 however only played certain songs once a week21:02
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javispedroI remember I once wanted to record the zx81 tapes on this computer... but what for...21:02
DocScrutinizerlcuk: soon after that I havily modded the whole thing, and developed and built a cmos 64k RAM expansion, damn was that cute, nonvolatile RAM21:02
MohammadAGthen 95, 98SE, XP, Red Hat, Vista, Ubuntu21:02
MohammadAGred hat was my first encounter with linux, was in 2003 I think21:03
RST38hlcuk: Did not have top 40. Never neededit anyway.21:03
RST38hStill do not.21:03
lcukmy first linux experience was putting console boot installation on numerous machines in college21:03
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GAN900MohammadAG, don't worry, give it 20 years and the old guys will start dying off.21:04
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RST38hmy first linux experience was watching the damn toy unix (tm) go into kernel panic on failed gethostbyname()21:04
MohammadAGshove a divide by zero function into the kernel21:04
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MohammadAGand you have a blinking caps21:04
MohammadAG<RST38h> Mohammad: Too young :) <-- indeed, used to play games as a youngster :p21:05
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MohammadAGI remember when a game required 3D acceleration and that was all new and stuff21:05
RST38heverybody has done that21:05
RST38hit is the gaming rig that differs21:06
MohammadAGit needed a Voodoo 3DFX card or something21:06
RST38hfor us, if the game used anything above SCREEN2 (16 colors with leakage) it was cool21:06
pexihow did u loose your interest on gaming21:06
pexisome boring job? nagging wife?21:06
RST38hVampire Killer (later known as Castlevania) or King's Valley 2 were cool21:07
MohammadAGme? I upgraded to a PS1 that time21:07
MohammadAGthen a PS2 in 2002 I think21:07
MohammadAGthen a PS3 in 200721:07
javispedropexi: notion that "those days games suck"? ;)21:07
MohammadAGthen a PS4 in 201721:07
RST38hpexi: I wrote an emulator and can play my childhood games on anything fromPC to a digitalcamera since then =)21:07
RST38hBut yes, I stopped caring about games once they started requiring DirectX21:08
pexishould all the nerds be playing world of tanks now (i presume that it was THE fantasy to ram with ww2 tanks)21:08
RST38hBecause none of my laptops ever had 3D hw, and I never bought a desktop.21:08
MohammadAGI remember when WoW came out and everyone got addicted to it, never liked that game21:09
pexiexcellent game21:09
* RST38h never tried WoW. ZAngband, on the other had...21:09
* Arkenoi played 60s (spacewar) and 70s (star trek) games much in mid-90s21:09
RST38h"yes" on startrek21:10
RST38has to space war, we played it on some ancient lab equipment, do I get a bonus for that? =)21:10
alteregoMeh, WoW just looks lame to me.21:11
VenemoWoW is crap21:11
alteregoIt's still an extremely popular game though21:11
RST38hAh, apparently it has got some pretty neat easter eggs, Gilliam-style21:11
VenemoI prefer EVE if it comes to MMOs21:12
RST38hLike a quest to kill Romeo and Juliet, whom you should kill at the same time, because the bastards revive each other21:12
* Arkenoi still plays Elite (Oolite)21:12
RST38hOr the Little Red Riding Hood quest, where one party member comes the Little Red Riding Hood21:12
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Arkenoione of a few games that was enhanced really good way21:13
RST38hArkenoi: Written in ObjectiveC. Not easily portable to Maemo =(21:13
MohammadAGtbh I never liked MMOs21:13
Arkenoiyes :-(21:13
MohammadAGor RPGs21:13
RST38hMohammad: Try Moria, Angband, or Zangband. Terribly addictive.21:13
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* SpeedEvil still plays nethack.21:14
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cehtehwhy isnt objectiveC not easily portable? no objective C gcc compiler for maemo? non portable runtime?21:14
RST38hMohammad: And yes, you get to kill Ballmer and Gates in ZAngband21:14
SpeedEvilI've even got it on the n90021:14
SpeedEvilkeyboard is a bit annoying though.21:14
MohammadAGpfft, let me know when they get Elop21:14
RST38hcehteh: try.21:14
cehtehno intention, just wondering21:14
VenemoMohammadAG: why do you wanna get elop?21:14
SpeedEvil'A ghoul named Elop hits you!'21:14
cehtehi know that objective C needs some runtime library but i wonder if that was written in a non portable way21:15
RST38hMohammad: Probably never, sorry. But they have got Marti Ahtisaari, if that helps to relieve your grief21:15
javispedro'You transform into a Microsoft-owned corporation'21:15
MohammadAGVenemo, we all know why21:15
* Arkenoi tried playing NES elite on Maemo with RST38h's emulator, it is playable but hardly enjoyable21:15
VenemoMohammadAG: ah, still black friday? :S21:15
pexiWoT > WoW
javispedrocehteh: I think the case is more like "no one's interested, requires rebuilding gcc, which takes a long time"21:15
RST38hSpeed: 'A newt named Elop attacks you!"21:15
MohammadAGthen came Guitar Hero, never really got into it at that time21:15
cehtehjavispedro: yes that might be the case .. but portability might be not21:16
RST38hArkenoi: Just play the original ZX version21:16
RST38hArkenoi:On RST38h's emulator, of course21:16
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: Eliter FTW21:16
MohammadAGthough I did get addicted to Modern Warfare 221:16
VenemoI prefer strategic games and RPGs21:17
Venemomy current favourite is Starcraft II :)21:17
MohammadAGWell, MW2 helped me fix a bug in the bluetooth messenger, so I consider less-thinking games better21:17
DocScrutinizerRST38h: the Amiga version of Elite was awesome21:17
MohammadAGyou could consider MW2 strategic though21:17
VenemoMohammadAG: how did it help you with the bluetooth messenger?21:18
DocScrutinizerthough first version I got was on Schneider-CPC12821:18
RST38hDoc: The Frontier?21:18
MohammadAGVenemo, idk, spent 3 hours trying to fix something at school, it didn't work21:18
DocScrutinizernah, never got that advanced21:18
RST38hDoc: Yes. But there is also X: Beyond The Frontier, it runs on Windows21:18
ArkenoiThe only true Elite was Archimedes one and i never managed to feed PC Acorn emulator with disk images properly :-(21:18
MohammadAGfixed it in 2 minutes when the idea came to my mind while playing MW221:18
DocScrutinizerRST38h: too bad I got no redmond crap here21:19
RST38hArkenoi: I have got it to work, except that you mean BBC not Archimedes21:19
pieter_Venemo: thanks for the help, flashing worked like a charm21:19
MohammadAGVenemo, I'd give you a binary, but you need two N900s to test21:19
RST38hArkenoi: It is pretty nice but not much nicer than other 8bit versions21:19
MohammadAGso only alterego and lcuk could test it :P21:19
RST38hDoc: The X is pretty nice, although may get boring21:19
ArkenoiRST38h, nope, Archimedes is ancient RISC machine21:19
RST38hArkenoi: I know21:19
RST38hArkenoi: But still, the ORIGINAL elite was developed for the Beeb, not the Archimedes21:19
ArkenoiRST38h, the major difference was that (like in Oolite) you are no longer center of the universe21:20
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Arkenoiyou may see other ships fighting21:20
RST38hNo, the Beeb version did not do that21:20
VenemoMohammadAG: see? gaming is good :)21:20
DocScrutinizerBell & Braben were friggin nerds, sure thing21:21
MohammadAGI wonder if anyone plays MW2 here :p21:21
ArkenoiThere was Linewars then21:21
VenemoMohammadAG: yes, you21:21
Arkenoia duel game for Cobra MkIIIs21:21
GAN900MohammadAG, used to.21:21
MohammadAGbesides me, I want a 1v1 :p21:21
MohammadAGGAN900, PS3?21:21
GAN900MohammadAG, nah, 360.21:22
GAN900(although I've got a PS3, too)21:22
MohammadAGPSN ID?21:22
GAN900Or maybe without the underscore21:23
GAN900Don't recall.21:23
* javispedro watches the creepy "Maemo project" ad and secretly hopes the evil N900 eats Elop21:23
Venemojavispedro: what ad is that?21:23
MohammadAGwhen you're on, same nick, mind adding me? P21:23
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MohammadAGVenemo, the paranormal activity -like one21:24
javispedroVenemo: quite old --
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Venemojavispedro: oh yeah, I saw that one21:31
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divanGuys, I need some advice.. Asphalt5 webos game tries to get file from /media/internal, which is obviously doesn't exists on N900. I'm creating WebOS Games autoinstaller from IPK and I don't want to give the root privileges to it. So, how to create/emulate/cheat Asphalt binary to not access/ignore /media/internal/ access?21:31
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norayrI've bought a new SD card, written 20110215 image to it. again waiting for root device /dev/mmcblk0p1... other images as well. what could it be?21:32
norayrno, sorry, wrong window21:32
divanThis path '/media/internal' is hardcoded to binary btw.21:32
Venemodivan: why don't you just create a directory called /media/internal ?21:33
javispedroor even better, a symlink to /home/user/MyDocs21:33
divanVanadis, it needs root priveldges as I understand.21:34
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Venemodivan: then give it root privileges and watch as it does rm -rf /21:35
divanNot funny.21:35
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javispedro/home/user/MyDocs does not require any root privileges to write.21:36
divanjavispedro, sure, but symlink is supposed to be created in /media dir.21:37
javispedroyou need root to create the .desktop files unless you're planning the be CSSU only.21:37
divanAgain - these post-install scripts will be launched from installer. And many people will contribute to it. I don't want to give root access for that.21:38
divanjavispedro, no. Desktop and icons are perfectly placed in ~/.local/21:38
javispedronot without the pre-CSSU h-d.21:38
divanwell, witout CSSU the icons can't be added to Desktop, but displayed in Application Menu21:39
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MohammadAGhildon-home had a bug fixed upstream21:39
GAN900MohammadAG, will do.21:40
javispedroMohammadAG: it was only a home issue? -desktop not affected?21:40
MohammadAGafaik yeah21:40
MohammadAGlemme check21:40
divanmaybe it's possible to reiplement open(2) that will handle /media/internal and redirect to other path? And launch game with LD_LIBRARY_PRELOAD...21:41
divanDid someone does such stuff with preenv games?21:41
MohammadAGjavispedro, commit ^21:42
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javispedroMohammadAG: yeah, but doesn't seem to say anything about h-d21:43
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VenemoI hate this. my laptop has the habbit of randomly freezing...21:43
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MohammadAGjavispedro, desktop files worked fine from ~/.local21:44
MohammadAGbut they didn't show up in hildon-home's shortcut menu21:44
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javispedroMohammadAG: since PR1.1, found it. ok!21:48
MohammadAGdidn't know about ~/.local before PR1.1 anyway, was a n00b back then21:48
MohammadAGjavispedro, how do I set properties on gtk widgets?21:48
javispedrowhat property?21:49
MohammadAGignore the pre_alpha2 thing, it's the same in final and I cba to find that21:49
javispedroif there's not a convenience accessor function, just use g_object_set21:50
javispedroi.e. g_object_set(G_OBJECT(your_widget), "property-name", property_value, NULL);21:50
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DocScrutinizerdivan: ( So, how to create/emulate/cheat Asphalt binary to not access/ignore /media/internal/ access? ) create a to LDPRELOAD, that intercepts fopen() and siblings amd cooks the path argument tru a regex you either get from $ENV or via parameter to LDPRELOAD invocation. See aoss21:57
divanDocScrutinizer, yeah, I'm implementing this way right now.21:58
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DocScrutinizerdivan: if you can implemet that in a general way, then plrease do and share21:59
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javispedrothat's what preenv itself basically does...21:59
divanDocScrutinizer, it will be universal installer for all WebOS games. I'll share as soon as first version will be ready.21:59
DocScrutinizerI'm talking about a generic *.so to tweak path in fopen() and related calls22:00
DocScrutinizernothing more, nothing less22:00
SpeedEvildivan: fun!22:01
* javispedro waves and repeats: that what preenv does.22:01
javispedroso, when it funnily interacts with preenv's preloaded library and everything crashes horribly..22:01
javispedrodon't tell me I didn't warn ;)22:02
divanDocScrutinizer, javispedro , I'm not sure I've understood you completely.. What does mean "in general way'?22:02
divanjavispedro, preload in preenv will interact with some other lib?22:02
javispedropreenv IS a preloaded library.22:03
javispedrofor a start, the current scripts will probably ignore whatever the current LD_PRELOAD event.22:04
javispedro*LD_PRELOAD value is22:04
javispedroalso, in the future preenv itself will also hook open()22:05
divanI'll check with scripts, thanks for warning.22:05
divanSo, it would be nice to move such hacks to preenv source, right?22:05
DocScrutinizerdivan: FAKE_FOPEN="sys/!mysys/ /foobar/(.*)/x!/fobaaar/\1/y" myapp-which-accesses-sys-and-gets-diverted-to-mysys22:05
* javispedro partially disagrees when a symlink is so much easier and faster, but...22:05
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: synling from /sys/foo/bar to /arbi/trary ?22:06
javispedroif no symlink, yes, it'd be better to not have more than one library.22:07
DocScrutinizerarrg symlink*22:07
javispedroDocScrutinizer: no, that was an answer for above's use case.22:07
javispedroDocScrutinizer: for your use case, consider bind mounts.22:07
DocScrutinizerno way22:07
DocScrutinizerI need that per app, not global22:07
javispedroLinux has per-app mount points ;)22:08
divanOk, let me check with scripts. Hope ld_preload will work, and I'll try to keep in touch with preenv changes in future.22:09
divanBTW, here is how app is look like. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
alteregoteeheehee, top gear22:10
piggzalterego: when the bmw got destroyed?22:11
piggzor going thru the ice?22:11
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: wut?22:13
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you're not talking about chroot, are you?22:13
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: no, they're called "mount namespaces"22:13
DocScrutinizerincredible, a day I *learn* sth new :-)22:14
alteregopiggz: the new one that's on now22:15
divanjavispedro, anyway I don't want to create mess in the /media dir for every game that uses hardcoded pathes.22:15
alteregoErm, the snow plough out of a harvester one.22:15
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javispedrodivan: there's a finite set of such paths, as on a real webos device22:15
piggzalterego: yeah, watching it....was funny when they fired grit at the bmw22:16
divanAny finite converges to infinity )22:17
divanIt's a rude way. But easiest, for sure.22:17
javispedrodivan: note that I personally dislike autoipkg installers for the simple reason that it invites to piracy22:18
alteregoI don't like them because they're crap.22:18
divanjavispedro, in what way they invite?22:18
javispedro(for more discussion --  )22:18
alteregodivan: they promote piracy, how many people do you actually tihnk buys them legitimately?22:19
divanI wan't to have the oficiall way to install game from .ipk file. Buy it :) and install.22:19
divanNow people install some prepackaged .debs - is that better?22:20
alteregoI doubt anyone legitimately buys the games.22:21
alteregoHow many N900 owners do you think have a Palm Pre?22:21
alteregoI'd guess at, hrm, two.22:21
divanThat's the second question. And I can't change anything here.22:21
divanBut now - even if I buy the game - I have no easy way to install it.22:22
alteregoWell, you only have to do it once ..22:22
javispedrothe fact that you don't know probably means you don't have a pre ;)22:22
javispedroas I said then on the channel, the legal store doesn't send you an ipk to you.22:23
javispedro(it obviously does, but not that you can see it)22:23
alteregoYeah, like Ovi22:23
divanDon't tell me that )) I still believe there is an official way to buy .ipk.22:23
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alteregodivan: I doubt HP would agree with you22:26
alteregoOr the game developers22:26
divanSo, you must admit that all possible installs of webos games on n900 are piracy.22:27
alteregoIt wouldn't suprise me.22:27
divanThen, the choice is on prepackaged unofficial .debs (which aren't in repos) and autoinstaller(which will be available from repos).22:28
alteregoNo one has paid me for any of my apps, why would I expect them to pay for others'?22:28
divanHope this is a joke.22:30
alteregoHope what is aa joke?22:33
divanThat logic - "if no one paid me, why should I?"22:33
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divanForget it. Just imho.22:34
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: have a manpage to start with, regarding mount namespaces?22:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: nah, but there was this ibm article..22:35
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (though until I learn more about that, I really like the simplicity of LDPRELOAD solution)22:35
javispedroeither way, it's just a flag in the fork() syscall22:36
javispedroclone() syscall22:36
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javispedroso it should be in the clone() manpage, hopefully =)22:37
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javispedro(it is -- CLONE_NEWNS)22:38
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: thanks, but looks really complex22:40
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javispedroit's just a parent creates child shell with new namespace -> mount / umount as appropiate22:40
javispedrootoh, if you're interested in the preloaded approach, iirc scratchbox2 does it, and they moved the path renaming logic into Lua22:41
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GAN900Tim's written a socialist manifesto.22:47
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ruskiewe are legion22:50
javispedroto the barricades!22:51
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ruskieman the pitchforks22:51
* GAN900 boils some pitch.22:52
* MohammadAG gets an RPG-722:52
javispedroall hail MohammadAG and the CSSU!22:52
* MohammadAG throws RPG-7 and gets a Javelin22:53
* divan is going to translate this for russian maemo community22:53
* ruskie grabs a mages staff and starts blasting fireballs around...22:53
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JaffaGAN900: Yeah, there was some talk of toning it down a little ;-)22:59
ruskiewhat's there to tone down...23:00
JaffaGAN900: Indeed, it has been.23:00
ruskiemanifestos need to be extreme...23:00
ruskiesince people will water them down in practice anyway23:00
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MohammadAGtimeless, mind popping into #maemo-ssu?23:00
JaffaGAN900: Basically to avoid endless TMO trolling as to whether everyone needs to agree on "We believe..." statements to be part of "the community"23:00
JaffaThen again, I've realised relatively recently that the people who moan most about "the community" are the ones who contribute least to it23:01
JaffaSuch as those matching "ge.*"23:01
JaffaGAN900: Going to run?23:01
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RST38hChrome May Drop the URL Bar23:02
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* javispedro ponders..23:04
javispedrobtw, are there any plans about tracker in the CSSU?23:04
MohammadAGjavispedro, if you have anything for it I can pull it into gitorious23:04
Jaffajavispedro: "plans" "about" "tracker"?23:04
javispedrowhat MohammadAG answered ;)23:04
Jaffajavispedro: As MohammadAG says, point to a patch or raise a bug  saying "I'd like to fix X, can you pull in the sources"23:05
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javispedroactually, I was thinking something bigger. Like the upgrade to a more recent upstream version (still in the same series) that I was promised but never happened =)23:06
javispedrobut that is probably too big for me..23:06
javispedrohm... will take a look.23:06
MohammadAGif it doesn't break anything, why not?23:07
Jaffand that's what testing's for ;-)23:07
javispedromy private branch currently has some fun stuff also -- like hardcoded exclusion of cover.jpg ;)23:08
MohammadAGin images or music?23:08
MohammadAGthat would be awesome23:08
MohammadAGor exclude images from /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds23:08
MohammadAGI wonder how hard a portrait task manager would be23:09
* RST38h suspects that the only good thing to be done to Tracker is keworking it23:09
MohammadAGtracker works well, when it's not indexing23:09
MohammadAGreally, listing songs in the mediaplayer is epically quick23:10
MohammadAGNokia's stock player sucks at it though23:10
MohammadAGthe rewrite lists songs in less than 2s23:10
MohammadAGsame for albums23:10
RST38hHow about adding a menu item or an icon "rescan all media" and disabling automatic rescan?23:10
MohammadAGI suggest otherwise, I had that on symbian and it sucked23:10
steve___Can someone point me to some docs for upgrading the ios on an n900?  Currently it's running version 3.2010.02-8.203.123:11
RST38hor delaying rescan until the device stays locked for at least 5minutes?23:11
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MohammadAGthat's very reasonable23:11
steve___internal OS23:11
MohammadAGbut rescanning shouldn't happen a lot23:11
MohammadAGonly when the db is corrupt23:11
MohammadAGwhen new media is found, it only indexes that23:12
infobotflashing is, like,
MohammadAGor use the application manager steve___23:12
divanjavispedro, what did you tell before about preloading and preenv? ) Asphalt now gives me that error "./Asphalt5: symbol lookup error: ./Asphalt5: undefined symbol: PDL_ScreenTimeoutEnable"23:13
divanWith LD_PRELOAD=23:13
steve___MohammadAG: I get a message in the application manager.23:13
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RST38hMohammadL currently, tracker scans whenever stuff changes23:14
RST38hif it changes a lot, tracker will scan a lot23:14
MohammadAGwhat do logs say?23:14
MohammadAGRST38h, indeed, it tracks what's changed23:14
MohammadAGthough tbh, I think scanning should happen immediately when the screen's locked23:14
RST38hthe problem is that even THAT is a costly operation23:14
RST38hI agree23:14
MohammadAGthen paused or low prioritzed when unlocked23:14
MohammadAGcan't be paused?23:15
MohammadAGfile a bug upstream!23:15
javispedrodivan: as I thought it is overwriting whatever you put in LD_PRELOAD, check /opt/preenv/env.sh23:15
RST38hWhat makes it such a pain is not the cpu priority, it is the mmc access bandwidth23:15
RST38hSo, yes, I would only do it when the device is absolutely idle (preferably locked)23:15
RST38hmost likely with a delay to prevent it from starting on wshort locks unlocks23:16
GAN900Jaffa, god no.23:16
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GAN900Jaffa, this is a term for much better people than myself. ;)23:16
steve___MohammadAG: thank you for the link.  I'll read it.23:18
jacekowskiyou can pause it23:18
jacekowskikill -STOP `pidof` tracker23:18
jacekowskiand then -CONT when you want to continue23:18
JaffaGAN900: I can imagine that despite lots of noise on TMO not many people will come forward23:19
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RST38heverybody left.23:19
JaffaDespite professing in absolute terms that MUST be made to continue and it's "just" a matter of collecting money.23:19
JaffaNo, everyone's either busy or doing something more useful than avoiding trolls.23:19
RST38hqwerty left, many other people left23:20
javispedroanother thought: did I dream reading a message to -community about some company now being's legal owner?23:20
RST38hyou mean the nemein guys?23:21
GAN900javispedro, I missed that one.23:21
javispedroooh, nemein.23:21
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javispedroso I didn't dream it after all.23:22
javispedro*sigh of relief*23:22
MohammadAGhas someone ever exploited trust on
RST38hTrust? What trust? Do you believe something you have heard on
MohammadAGno, I meant like they gained trust, then pushed a bricker23:22
* RST38h especially likes the latest generation of photoshop-wielding lemmings with their "N9 designs"23:23
RST38hMohammad: Ah, that... No23:23
javispedroGAN900: talking about the post that is quoted here (  ) , that I cannot find on gmane nntp for some reason.23:23
RST38hMohammad: There was one case when some guy ported his app from iPhone and pushed it up23:23
MohammadAGor whatever it was called23:24
RST38hno no, some baseball game23:24
MohammadAGah, I remember him23:24
JaffaRST38h: Eh? WTF are you trolling about now?23:24
MohammadAGthen Venomrush made a post about him23:24
MohammadAGhe's not trolling23:25
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MohammadAGI remember that23:25
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achipaJaffa: the basketball dude, sio2 I think23:25
MohammadAGyeah, him23:25
JaffaMohammadAG: "Trust, what trust?  Did you believe something you read on"23:25
RST38hJaffa: I will warn you next time I am trolling, so that you can get popcorn in advance23:25
* Arkenoi wonders if there is any chance alien dalvik for maemo will be released to general public23:25
RST38hMohammad: ironically, current Extras* pretty much shows that you can do without organized QA23:25
* achipa would advise Arkenoi to have low expectations23:26
MohammadAGmy search skills are ftw ^ :P23:26
RST38hMohammad: A few common sense safety checks + a forum to comment on each app do the job well23:26
JaffaMohammadAG: sio2 is the only large trust abuse, apart from the widespread voting up by authors of their own packages - but that's never been explicitly ruled out23:26
RST38hArkenoi: In short,no23:26
ArkenoiRST38h, why, if they already do have it working?23:26
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ArkenoiWhy just trash it for no reason?23:27
RST38hArkenoi: javispedro has visited their booth at MWC23:27
javispedroArkenoi: simply put, they are doing it for the money.23:27
MohammadAGJaffa, was just wondering tbh, I only joined last year :p23:27
JaffaArkenoi: They want to sell it to OEMs.23:27
RST38hArkenoi: They are basically targeting Android app developers who would like to wrap their apps for use on other OSes23:27
Arkenoijavispedro, and are they going to sell it?23:27
JaffaArkenoi: Not to end users23:27
ArkenoiJaffa, what's wrong with selling it to end users?23:27
javispedroArkenoi: to OEMs, which is where the money is23:27
MohammadAGwell, december 09, joined on october 09 I think23:27
JaffaArkenoi: The internal N900 version provides a mechanism to show it works23:28
javispedroRST38h: actually, not developers -- just manufactures.23:28
javispedroRST38h: in fact I asked them "why not developers"23:28
MohammadAGthe iPhone sucks23:28
javispedrowith no interesting answer..23:28
MohammadAGtrying to download an app redirects me to a billing page23:28
JaffaArkenoi: Cos end-users want support, don't follow instructions and the software requires (presumably) getting the apk (presumably)23:28
ArkenoiJaffa, i do not really see how selling it to end users affect their relations with OEMs23:28
RST38hjavispedro: so, they are simply not interested23:28
MohammadAGit's freaking free23:28
ArkenoiJaffa, they can seel it "as is".23:28
JaffaArkenoi: It's more work for no effort.23:28
infobotJaffa meant: Arkenoi: It's more work for no reward.23:29
MohammadAGApparently, once you add a card, you can't go back to no card, it stays with them23:29
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JaffaArkenoi: And Maemo users typically don't buy software.23:29
Arkenoijaffa, well, then why not to release it for free, then? n900 is officially EOLed so it does not affect other sales but may increase popularity23:29
javispedroRST38h: wild guess: they are eyeing someone else might want to do what BB seems to want to do (pull in most Android apps into their store). So many $$$ it makes end users or developers markets irrelevant.23:30
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achipabtw is is running on *meego* on the n900 or on *maemo* ?23:32
JaffaArkenoi: No idea.23:32
Jaffaachipa: Maemo 523:32
javispedroalso, forced portrait =)23:32
JaffaArkenoi: Presumably because it'd be easier for someone to pirate it/reverse engineer which is less likely in a commercial B2B arrangement with an OEM?</guess>23:32
divanjavispedro, thanks for the hint. Now I just pass two shared libs to LD_PRELOAD and it works. Well, almost. No all open()s are intercepted. Trying figure out why...23:33
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ArkenoiJaffa: i doubt it. If someone is willing to reverse engineer it, maemo version does not make it any easier than any other23:33
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Arkenoiand it does not matter if it was OEMed befor release or not23:34
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javispedrothe "maemo users don't buy software" point has been raised twice today already23:37
JaffaArkenoi: If you release it publicly, for free, on Maemo; of course it's more easy to reverse engineer it if you're a competitor than if it's only distributed and integrated into individual manufacturer's devices.23:40
* SpeedEvil tries to remember when he last purchased software.23:40
SpeedEvil(not integrated into a device)23:40
JaffaSpeedEvil: Ooh, good game.23:40
* Jaffa has absolutely no idea.23:41
SpeedEvilIt may have been Doom II.23:41
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ArkenoiJaffa: "integrated" just means someone placed it on the internal drive, no difference if you get such a device in hands23:41
SpeedEvilArkenoi: naah - I mean something not embedded - for example the program running in my credit card or SIM.23:42
GAN900I bought that stupid animation thing Tim linked on twitter the other day.23:42
JaffaSpeedEvil: Presumably excluding console games (otherwise a discounted Lego Rock Band for Wii earlier today). If including PC games, only one I've bought (ever) is the Orange Box a couple of years ago.23:42
JaffaArkenoi: Potentially true, indeed.23:43
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, it makes some difference, sure, but are they targeting *that*?23:43
SpeedEvilJaffa: I moremean commercial software - rather than integrated into a single use device.23:43
JaffaArkenoi: Anyway, I'd love to have it. They don't seem interested. I'm guessing at why <shrug/>23:43
JaffaSpeedEvil: It would have been for RISC OS for me, then. Probably around 1996? Maybe Impression (hmm, that was in 1994)23:44
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JaffaWow, no wonder I object to even spending $2 on a random game23:45
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SpeedEvilI have no in-principle objection to buying stuff.23:45
SpeedEvilI've just not found anything I really want to buy.23:45
JaffaNo, I meant more of a gut "hmm, not going to pay that for something which might be shit"23:45
JaffaRather than a fundamental philosophical objection to commercial software.23:46
JaffaHell, I write it by day and used to write it by night :-)23:46
MohammadAGheh, angry birds + all level packs is 99c on the iPhone23:46
SpeedEvilOh - my bad.23:46
SpeedEvilI did buy the level pack for angry birds.23:46
* Jaffa has something ingrained like "if it's that good, and it's a popular platform, there'll be something approximating it which is free"23:46
* Jaffa might have bought Sygic if the N900 had a good car mount around when I last looked at it23:47
JaffaAnyway, N900 dying. Bed time.23:47
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divanLD_PRELOAD method works perfectly with Asphalt5.23:59

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