IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-02-17

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javispedroRST38h: the slide that shows the inspiration for WP7's UI =)00:02
keriojavispedro: well it shows perfectly the fact that it's a giant clusterfuck00:04
lcukjavispedro, that looks like very very early stage liqbase than WP7 :P00:04
javispedrolcuk: yeah, that tiles concept..00:04
javispedrothey should have put liqbase in that slide too ;)00:05
lcuknahh I bet my handwriting wasn't neat enough00:06
lcukit is now ;)00:06
timeless <- is better00:06
javispedrowhich one is the genius and which one's the insane again?00:07
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lcukjavispedro, hehe, see the next slide with all the text00:08
lcukthen compare:
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javispedroit's about typography!00:08
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javispedrolcuk: did you make a font with your handwriting? :)00:09
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javispedroyou could sell it :)00:09
lcukjavispedro, no, I made the UI use anybodies handwriting00:09
lcukjavispedro, I actually did it in 2008 :)00:10
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lcukthe hand written gpl is awesome00:10
lcuk(before I learnt how to write neatly :) )00:11
lcukthat was about a week before I started work on turning liqbase into a library00:11
lcukwas practically the last thing I tried in classic liqbase :)00:11
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Sc0rpiustime to reboot00:14
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Gh0styah yes a question I always forget when I am here ... :p00:14
Gh0stydoes N900 and the current firmware support ipv6 ? :/00:14
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* timeless is having trouble installing The One Ring00:21
timelesscan anyone help me?00:22
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Gh0styhe wants to rule us all ... dont help him! :p00:24
DocScrutinizer //ns rename timeless brain00:25
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* trumee ssu channel seems to be dead.00:25
timelesshrm, so Vuze is downloading a JRE00:25
* timeless wonders which JRE it grabbed00:25
* DocScrutinizer wonders if Jaffa is asleep00:26
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Sc0rpiusnick:password as server password worked00:27
* Gh0sty still wondering where alarmed actually saves its stuff ... :/ 00:28
Sc0rpiusthat's nicer than /ns identify00:28
Gh0stysince it updated it only works half :p00:28
DocScrutinizerplus you get cloaked prior to autojoining channels, as a bonus00:28
Sc0rpiusyeah though I don't have a cloak00:28
Gh0styit kills my sound in the evening but does not put it back to general ... :/00:28
timelessSc0rpius: cloaks are cheap00:28
Sc0rpiushow much00:29
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timelesswow, vuze grabbed j6u2300:29
* timeless is impressed00:29
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Nearly00:29
timelessso... the one ring... anyone?00:30
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* timeless tries "Google Voice plugin for Conversations and Calls"00:30
Gh0styhm nicu DocScrutinizer00:31
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: ^^^ you might want to rm .config/alarmed/jobs/*00:31
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Gh0styI was looking for something like .alarmed :P00:32
Gh0stywho had figured it has a .config in front of it ... :)00:32
DocScrutinizeryeah, I hate it00:32
DocScrutinizerI hate the other crap in there even more, thanks Qt00:32
Gh0styyes indeed I want to delete it and reconfigure it again in the gui ...00:32
Gh0stysince now I have no clue what it does exactly00:33
Gh0stythink some jobs got deleted00:33
Gh0styand some are still there, but after a full device reflash it recovered the jobs but there is nothing in the gui :p00:33
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* DrGrov is missing his N90000:35
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Arkenoiquite strange, i've got email with vcal invitation, and modest does not show it at all. no attachment, no indication there is something besides text. that sucks!00:36
Gh0styDrGrov: broken?00:36
Gh0styor you learned it how to swim? :p00:36
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DrGrovGh0sty: No, I sold it for my cousin. I got myself a N8 instead but got tired of Nokia and how they do business and got myself the HTC Desire HD on Monday this week.00:37
DrGrovI know, I am a phone whore ;-)00:37
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andre__Arkenoi: meeting invitations is implemented in PR1.2 for ActiveSync (MfE) according to - no idea about non-MfE though00:39
povbotBug 9296: Exchange event invitations scheduled without a prompt00:39
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: ping Shapeshifter00:40
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Gh0styDocScrutinizer: did a couple of days ago00:43
Gh0stybut I think hes from a very different timezone00:43
Gh0styhe responded at 3am or something :p00:43
DocScrutinizer~seen Shapeshifter00:43
infobotshapeshifter is currently on #maemo (18h 42m 51s) #meego (18h 42m 51s). Has said a total of 76 messages. Is idling for 12h 20m 28s, last said: 'is that a service pack to Red Hat 98plus! ?'.00:43
Gh0stybetween 10 and 12 :)00:44
Gh0stylets see tomorrow then :P00:44
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MohammadAGI started working on a Bluetooth Messenger for the school project00:51
MohammadAG"beta" seems to be working fine00:51
DocScrutinizerwhat's a BT messanger?00:52
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kerioMohammadAG: hold on, what?00:52
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keriodon't you handle the CSSU and a shitton more maemo projects?00:52
MohammadAGworks between the N900 and Ubuntu00:53
MohammadAGkerio, blame my school00:53
MohammadAGit's a school project00:53
* DocScrutinizer pondered a BT/wifi p2p web, for states with lots of people crowding up but GSM switched off by authorities00:53
MohammadAGwifi rapes battery (ad-hoc at least)00:53
DocScrutinizernot BT though00:53
MohammadAGBT's ideal00:54
MohammadAGand with Qt Mobility, it's cross platform00:54
DocScrutinizerin Tokio and UAE they date in bus via BT00:54
DocScrutinizerwhy not extend it to form a network nobody can tear down00:54
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MohammadAGi need to implement stuff password protection on rooms though00:55
DocScrutinizer(C) jr00:55
MohammadAGwell, simple answer00:55
MohammadAGI need a shitload of N900s to test00:55
DocScrutinizerI'd take pride in all those dictators hating me for the idea :-D00:55
Gh0sty00:02 < DocScrutinizer> in Tokio and UAE they date in bus via BT00:55
MohammadAGQt Mobility works better on the N900 than on Ubuntu (weird, eh?)00:55
Gh0styI should visit tokio! :P00:56
MohammadAGin america they date via chatroulette00:56
MohammadAGget back to $yourLocation00:56
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denohi there01:22
denoI have compiled my modified kernel with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa01:23
denodo you know if now I need to set the n900 in flash mode?01:23
denoor have I just to use dpkg -i with those .deb files01:23
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trumeedeno, you will have to flash your kernel as well01:25
denotrumee, uhm is not enough:01:25
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denodpkg -i kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb01:25
denodpkg -i kernel-power-modules_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb01:25
denodpkg -i kernel-power-flasher_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb01:25
denodpkg -i kernel-power-bootimg_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb01:25
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trumeedeno, no idea. sorry01:26
denok thx anyway01:26
MohammadAGonly the first 301:26
denowhy not the last?01:26
MohammadAGthe -flasher package flashes the kernel, you just have to reboot01:26
DocScrutinizer51iirc you need modules, kernel, flasher, in this sequence01:27
MohammadAG-bootimg is for multiboot, you don't need it01:27
denoah ok01:27
DocScrutinizer51yeah, listen to MohammadAG01:27
denothe order is ok?01:27
DocScrutinizer51he knows his stuff01:27
MohammadAGkernel + modules can be done in one step01:27
DocScrutinizer51then flasher01:28
MohammadAGflasher in a separate one (it predepends on the other 2)01:28
MohammadAGyep, you know your stuff to apparently :P01:28
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MohammadAGtbh, i just dpkg -i *01:28
MohammadAGit fails the first time obviously, but when I run it again, it works :P01:28
denook makes sense :)01:29
MohammadAGi'm just lazy :P01:29
denothank you :)01:29
MohammadAGI should go to bed :/01:29
denome too :D01:30
DocScrutinizer51time for lunch01:30
denowhere are you DocScrutinizer ?01:30
MohammadAGGermany lol01:30
DocScrutinizer51commonly called 'earth'01:31
denoeven in germany is not time for lunch01:31
denoAh MohammadAG  one last thing01:31
denoshould I put the nokia in flashmode or not?01:31
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denoduring the installation of these packages01:32
MohammadAG-flasher does everything01:32
DocScrutinizer51just reboot01:32
denoah ok cool01:32
DocScrutinizer51after install01:32
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denoit's a bit big the kernel maybe I have to copy it in /opt01:33
denothank you again :)01:33
MohammadAGit's flashed to /dev/mtd2 at installation01:33
MohammadAGdon't copy it anywhere, it's deleted after flashing ends01:33
DocScrutinizer51you can place the .deb anywgere01:34
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denohave a good uhm01:34
denolol I was saying you by01:34
MohammadAGyes, .deb doesn't matter01:34
MohammadAG.fiasco does01:34
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denoOne time I tried to install the packages from the 32GB memory but it was not possible01:34
MohammadAGit has to stay in /boot till flashed01:34
MohammadAGdeno, nope, should work fine01:35
denoMohammadAG, maybe was just that time.. very strange01:35
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denosee you01:35
denohave a good night01:35
MohammadAGcan someone tranquilize me? I really need to sleep01:35
denotranquillize you for what?01:35
MohammadAGnight :P01:35
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MohammadAGI'm on IRC01:36
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denogo to sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppp01:36
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denoah right01:37
DocScrutinizerbetter?  :-P01:37
denoif is possible to install packages from01:37
denothe MMC01:38
denoso it's possible also to mount root on it, isn't it?01:38
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DocScrutinizerthat's a bit more complicated01:39
DocScrutinizermeego is doing that01:39
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DocScrutinizerthey need uBoot bootloader for it01:40
denowhy so complicated?01:40
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DocScrutinizerbecause NOLO bootloader will not mount and boot rootfs on MMC01:40
xnt14DocScrutinizer: Mohammad told me to tell you to unquiet him. (after he's gone) ;)01:41
denono way01:41
denothank you again01:41
denosee you01:41
denohave a good night!01:41
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Arkenoiandre: it is non-mfe, just vcal file attached.02:06
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Gh0styomg wtf?02:07
Gh0styits logging all this stuff into irclogs/freenode/*/02:08
Gh0stywhy the heck does it use /*/02:08
Gh0styI feel there is a ghost in the system!02:08
sevardbig brother is *02:08
Gh0stywas wondering why it did not go to freenode/##overflow or freenode/#maemo02:09
Gh0stydon understand :/02:09
sevardever eat spicey peppers and later have spicey poops?02:09
sevardmy friends don't understand what spicey poops are02:10
sevardhow can some people not have spicey poops?02:10
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Gh0styvery strange02:13
Gh0styjust reconnected and now it runs fine02:13
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: the song 'Bette Davis Eyes' classic synth sound is the Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 (1977)02:20
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n900evilwhen did speedevil ping out?02:58
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n900evilOdd. laptop 'locked up', no ssh, display won't wake up - no keyb activity, yet flash videos audio is still going.02:59
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DrGrovN900ev1l: Are you using Firefox?03:23
N900ev1lAs it happens, yes.03:23
DrGrovN900ev1l: Linux I presume?03:24
N900ev1lI've noticed video is a lot less smooth in some flash visdeo streams.03:24
BCMMfcam needs a bit more documentation...03:24
DrGrovI have had that exact same issue from time to time. Not too much but a few times over the past 6 months or so.03:24
DrGrovSo then I suggest for you to drop to terminal 1. Should be Ctrl+Alt+F103:25
BCMMalso, Example 1, "A program that takes a single shot", quite evidently takes three shots03:25
DrGrovThen do a "killall -9 firefox-bin"03:25
N900ev1lDrGrov: nope03:25
DrGrovN900ev1l: Which Linux are you using?03:25
N900ev1lDrGrov: no keyboard was working, including magic-sysrq03:25
DrGrovAh, then that is an another story. I have had it with a keyboard still working luckily.03:26
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N900ev1lMaybe a thermal issue.03:26
DrGrovN900ev1l: Could definitely be so. I have had some issues as well, not sure if thermal issues but still that exact same thing.03:26
DrGrovExcept the keyboard was still working03:26
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skrullishello, do I need unpartitioned disk space on the eMMC on my n900 for it to work properly?03:56
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DocScrutinizerN900ev1l: flash is running and occupying CPU, the kbd events don't get processed in due time. If you're unlucky to issue some kbd event that's not directly switching to another task (i.e. esp ctrl-alt-F1), then this event sits like a cork on top of kbd fifo, and later ctrl-alt-F1 won't show any effect03:59
N900ev1l2hich doesn't explain magic sysrq not working.04:00
DocScrutinizerexcept if there's some spinlock or flow-control in kernel even blocking the low level kbd drivers04:02
DocScrutinizerdepending on what flash is using in gfx-accel, this might well explain it04:03
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Still awake coding all the time? :)04:03
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: I love the passion you have :)04:03
DocScrutinizerit's more like sitting in my own virtual prison, hoping for time to pass by and things to change04:04
DocScrutinizerbut you don't really need nor want to understand this04:04
pupnikflash is disgusting04:07
pupnikDrGrov: didn't I tell you to go away?04:08
DrGrovpupnik: Huh? I can not even make questions anymore?04:08
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: I see. I just thought that what drives you.04:09
pupniki just think you should take your trolling elsewhere04:09
pupnikgood bye04:09
DrGrovpupnik: I am not trying to insult anyone. I am merely trying to understand.04:10
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pupnik  [ Do you support software freedom? ]04:11
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pupnikthe question answers itself04:12
DrGrovpupnik: I really don't understand what is your problem. I can not even ask a simple question and perhaps wonder?04:15
DrGrovpupnik: But nevermind, seems like you are in a unfriendly mood tonight.04:15
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internetishardWhat's the best way you can think of to play all of your music remotely (select it on the n900 and the linux box plays it...)?04:20
sevardi don't have a n900 but i'd look into MPD04:21
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internetishardhmm, I forgot MPD had remote capabilities04:22
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sevardDoes anyone know how to disable this annoying red led when the video camera is active on the n810?04:22
sevardthere's a big thread on how to do it for the n900 but nothing for the n81004:22
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jonwilHow can I find out which dbus interfaces are registered/exported by a particular app?04:29
DocScrutinizersevard: /etc/mce/mce.ini (if the path hasn't changed)04:31
sevardDocScrutinizer: I tried that, I put a # infront of all of the PatternWebcamActive lines04:32
sevardthe only line I didn't comment out was LEDPatterns=Patten1blah;Pattern2blah04:33
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sevarddo I need to restart a process that reads mce.ini ?04:33
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sevardmmcqd ?04:35
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DocScrutinizer51reboot :)04:39
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franz_you can04:39
franz_initctl stop mce04:39
franz_initctl start mce04:39
franz_that reloads the mce.ini config04:39
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DocScrutinizer51on fremantle yes04:45
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sevardwell a reboot worked :)04:56
sevardDoes anyone have sshfs for n810?  these links are dead ;/04:56
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pupniksevard: tried gronmayer?05:05
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jonwilbah, I wish I could find out what dbus interfaces telepathy-ring was exporting05:07
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jonwilhmmm, doesn't matter, I found out what I wanted to know05:10
sevardfound them here05:10
sevardwhat's groanmayer?05:10
jonwilIts clear that Maemo will NEVER be able to use ofono in place of the closed telephony stack05:10
jonwilso ofono is not the answer for cell broadcast05:11
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pupnikjonwil: why not?05:19
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jonwilthere are too many closed components that talk to the current telephony stack (even for just calls and SMS which are the bits we would want to replace with ofono)05:21
DocScrutinizer51that's exactly the problem. you can't replace one closed blob, they seem to be all connected to all, in several undocumented ways05:23
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jonwilother than telepathy-ring (which would need to be replaced), the things using the call interface are bluetoothd, intellisyncd,,,,,, sscd,, and SMS is being used by sms-manager, and cherry.05:27
compengihello, do you know any good lockscreen widgets?05:29
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DocScrutinizer51nuke the cherry bullshit!05:32
jonwilWe cant nuke or libtrcom-call-ui.so05:33
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compengioh wow05:36
DocScrutinizer51cherry, justcherry05:36
compengii didn't know that pressing the power button twice will create a slide mode screen unlock05:37
jonwilwhat would need to be done is: 1.Identify any interfaces exposed by maemo telepathy-ring that are not exported by meego telepathy-ring.05:38
jonwil2.Identify which blobs use those interfaces.05:38
jonwil3.If those blobs cant be removed or replaced, modify telepathy-ring to expose those interfaces. (with required changes to ofono to support that)05:38
jonwil4.identify the call and SMS interfaces used by the other binary blobs05:38
DocScrutinizer51depends, once again on /etc/mce/mce.ini05:38
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jonwil5.If those blobs cant be removed or replaced, implement the needed call and SMS interfaces somehow05:39
jonwil6.Once thats covered, you would be able to replace csd-sms and csd-call with a build of ofono built to just do SMS and calls05:39
jonwilbut yeah its a fair whack of work to pull that off05:40
sevardon my n810 how can I run a command as root on boot?05:42
SpeedEvilAnd more importantly, until it's 'done' - it doesn't work at all05:43
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jonwilIt would be easier to just reverse engineer and 1:1 clone libsms, libcsd-sms, libcscall and libcsd-call05:52
jonwiland then modify those05:52
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sevardso there's /etc/inittab which sets a default run level of 205:53
sevardthen there's /etc/rc2.d/05:53
sevardwhich holds a bunch of the same scripts, but they're named S[num][name]05:53
sevardis this where i can put some commands to run at boot?05:53
sevardhow can i ensure that the wireless comes up before my command runs?05:54
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sevardfound it06:13
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Sc0rpiussevard you should use event.d06:56
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slonopotamusSc0rpius: so, what about perl 5.8.4 in scratchbox? :)07:22
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Sc0rpiuswell I actually had to modify some things07:29
Sc0rpiusdebhelper tools are also wrapped07:30
Sc0rpiusand scratchbox, at least mine, uses 5, and libperl-dbi needs 707:30
Sc0rpiusit compiles, but some tests fails, because threads in 5.8.3 are weird07:31
Sc0rpiusso it doesn't build the package, since some tests fails07:31
slonopotamusis it possible to ignore /usr/bin/* ?07:31
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Sc0rpiusnot needed, with those two is more than enough07:31
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Sc0rpiusthe problem is multithreaded perl 5.8.307:32
Sc0rpiusat least for me07:32
slonopotamusno wait.07:32
slonopotamusi built it on builder.07:32
Sc0rpiusI know there's a way to disable multithreaded functionality07:32
Sc0rpiusit builds in 5.8.4, but it will never work in a N90007:33
Sc0rpiusonly in scratchbox x8607:33
slonopotamusi see07:33
slonopotamusso, how did you prevent 5.8.4?07:33
Sc0rpiuswell I guess you can update your perl in your N900 to 5.8.407:33
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Sc0rpiusmy /usr/bin/perl is 5.8.3, with the SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE takes that one07:34
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slonopotamuswell, without ignore, i was getting x86 perl07:35
Sc0rpiuswithout ignore you take the host perl07:36
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slonopotamusone from /scratchbox07:36
slonopotamusand what version is /usr/bin/perl?07:37
Sc0rpiusanyway you'll always get an x86 perl since you can't run ARM executables in builder, but it creates ARM things when it's supposed to07:37
slonopotamusi can't? oh really?07:37
Sc0rpiusbuilder doesn't run QEMU to build07:37
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Sc0rpiusmy /usr/bin/perl is 5.8.307:37
Sc0rpiusthat's not a problem though (running perl in x86)07:38
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Sc0rpius*** You are using a perl configured with threading enabled.07:38
Sc0rpiusthat's my current problem07:38
Sc0rpiust/35thrclone..............FAILED tests 12-4407:39
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Sc0rpiusa dirty way is to modify those tests and skip them07:39
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Sc0rpiusbut the professional way should be disabling multithreading in perl07:40
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Sc0rpiusactually the source says:07:42
Sc0rpius# skip seems broken with threads (5.8.3)07:42
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Sc0rpiuslet's see if skipping that one works07:43
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slonopotamusall tests are ok when building on n900. i still thing builder environment is screwed up. is it possible to build deb locally and upload it to builder?07:52
Sc0rpiusthat's not possible07:53
Sc0rpiusbuilder has to build it07:53
Sc0rpiusI don't really think /usr/bin/perl on builder is 5.8.4. No way07:53
Sc0rpiusbut I did something different, because bad experience using bash:07:53
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Sc0rpiusexport VARIABLE=thing inside a script never works for me07:55
Sc0rpiusVARIABLE=thing; export VARIABLE inside a script is what always worked for me07:55
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Sc0rpiusin the CLI, doesn't matter.07:55
slonopotamusso... that changes anything?07:55
Sc0rpiusanyway it died with a NullP and created a core file heh07:56
Sc0rpius-rw-r--r-- 1 naikel naikel 5795840 Feb 16 21:46 qemu_perl_20110216-214631_7407.core07:56
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Sc0rpiuslet's see without the ignore07:57
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slonopotamusyou know what?08:06
slonopotamusi think that i built it correctly08:06
slonopotamusexcept one minor thing, deb dependency08:06
Sc0rpiuswell I can't compile it because that debhelper >= 7 is giving me SERIOUS problems08:06
slonopotamusit is done with dh_perl and what it does is parses output of dpkg -s perl08:07
Sc0rpiusif it depends in some perl module 5.8.4 then it's not building correctly08:07
slonopotamusi don't think it does08:07
slonopotamusSc0rpius: what version do you get for "dpkg -s perl | grep Version"08:08
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Sc0rpiusVersion: 5.8.3-3osso11+0m508:09
Sc0rpiusand I should have osso13+0m5 but I'm lazy to upgrade08:09
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slonopotamusi also have osso11 on n900, so let's pretend that osso13 doesn't exist :)08:10
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slonopotamusmeeeh... where it gets 5.8.4 then?08:12
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Sc0rpiusI know it sounds dumb but you should try the assign and export in different lines08:13
slonopotamusSc0rpius: according to it really used /usr/bin/perl08:15
slonopotamusSc0rpius: that's how it behaved with no ignore/path08:15
Sc0rpiusoh it doesn't matter, if you don't set the SBOX ignore /usr/bin/perl is still mapped08:16
slonopotamuswell, that build was much slower08:16
slonopotamusi mean, the one with ignore08:17
slonopotamusSc0rpius: what "which dh_perl" gives you in scratchbox?08:18
Sc0rpiusand that's a problem for me since the debhelper is 508:20
slonopotamusand do you have /usr/bin/dh_perl ?08:21
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slonopotamusSc0rpius: could you please pastebin contents of /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dh_perl ?08:22
Sc0rpiusI can use it if I ignore it too08:22
* slonopotamus tried ignoring /usr/bin/dh_perl08:22
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slonopotamusand that thingie somehow results in 5.8.4...08:25
Sc0rpiusdh_perl: Sorry, but 5 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper.08:25
Sc0rpiusI'm still getting that08:25
Sc0rpiusand I have debhelper 708:25
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slonopotamusweird :)08:26
Sc0rpiusexport SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl:/usr/bin/dh_perl:/usr/bin/dh08:26
Sc0rpiuslet's see08:26
Sc0rpiusok now that tries to build the package08:27
* slonopotamus really wants export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=damnit_everything08:28
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Sc0rpiuswell everything will fail on me until I ignore every /usr/bin/dh_*08:29
Sc0rpiusthere's a way to do that08:29
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Sc0rpiusunset SBOX_REDIRECT_FROM_DIRS08:29
Sc0rpiusnow let's see08:29
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Sc0rpiusnow it's a mess :)08:30
Sc0rpiuswell I give up and it's 2 am actually08:30
slonopotamushehe :)08:31
slonopotamus nice reading :)08:31
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slonopotamusis it possible to disabe "scratchbox-provided dependencies"?08:52
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slonopotamusSc0rpius: craaaap. i found where 5.8.4 comes from. that dh_perl that you pasted. look at first line.08:55
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slonopotamusSc0rpius: and dh_perl substitutes perl version that it runs with08:58
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jonwilTime to continue reverse engineering libsms09:10
jonwilI suspect that unless Nokia decides to open libsms, the easiest way to solve the cbsms problem is to simply make a 1:1 clone of libsms myself and fix the bug that way (shipping the new libsms through whatever mechanism we are using to update system packages without causing issues)09:12
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krayonjonwil: God the bug tracker gets me down... same responses every time it seems.  Are you doing this for 8347 or for apps to send sms'?09:19
jonwilIts for cell broadcast09:19
jonwilIts also for the feature someone wanted to be able to block incoming SMSs before the UI layer even sees them09:20
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jonwilIf apps wanted to send SMSs they would need to talk via the appropriate libraries09:21
krayon*sigh* I bought the N900 thinking it'd at least be as "open" as the Palm.  It was pretty good at providing interfaces to "do" things (such as hooking lower level stuff etc)09:22
krayonIt would seem you can't have everything :/09:22
jonwilThe basic problem is that the connectivity middleware is all tied together and its difficult to open one piece without pulling in dependancies on a bunch of other things09:23
jonwilNokia decided that replacing it with ofono as part of the MeeGo work was a better idea09:23
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jonwilunfortunatly libsms is a complicated library and I dont have the skills to clone it (or csd-sms)09:39
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ruskiejonwil, iirc someone got ofono running on the N90009:45
jonwilIts possible if you throw away the dialer, messaging app and a bunch more09:45
ruskieso maybe work on getting that integrated with the current set instead of trying to decypher the stuff09:45
ruskiewell you can replace the dialer09:45
jonwilyeah true09:45
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ruskiethe messaging app you just need a new frontend(the backend is telepathy and iirc open)...09:45
ruskieit would require a rethink and rework(or borrowing from MeeGo)...09:46
ruskiebut it's probably easier than reverse engineering all the closed stuff...09:46
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jonwilIn any case I doubt every feature worked properly given all the dependancies on the telephony stack from things like intellisyncd,,, and others09:47
jonwilit may "09:48
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jonwilmay "work" in the sense that you can make calls09:48
jonwilbut so many of the little things will break that its not a viable option09:49
ruskiefrankly I'd be happy with MeeGo if the handset UX would be like maemo5 or even the older m4 UX...09:49
jonwilmeego isn't an option for most people simply because there are many many features maemo has the meego does not09:50
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ruskiejonwil, hmmm like?09:51
jonwilwell there is no support for SIM PIN in meego yet.09:52
jonwilNo GPS.09:52
ruskieok... I'd be happy with a completly disable no-power use GPS anyway09:52
ruskiethe SIM PIN stuff... ugh...09:52
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jarkkom_how are rest of the apps, like email, browser etc09:52
jonwilthere are just too many holes to make meego-on-n900 any good09:52
jonwilat least from what I have read09:52
ruskiehell I'd like proper user support i.e. login+pw...09:53
jarkkom_I haven't tested meego since 1.1 as it was unusable as sdhc install09:53
jonwilyou would need to talk to the gurus in meego-arm for the minute details of whats missing09:53
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jonwilbut its just not an option for most N900 users09:53
ruskiehmm meego worked on the sdhc fine for me...09:53
ruskieafter a reboot09:53
jonwiland neither is replacing the telephony stack with ofono09:54
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jarkkom_ruskie, yeah it took like 30-60 seconds to start an app when run from class 4 SD09:54
jonwilour only hope is that nokia can release some code and headers or that someone can reverse engineer things09:54
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ruskiehmm I think I had a class 609:54
jonwiland solve the issues in the telephony stack09:54
ruskieso was actually running...09:54
ruskiebut still way to broken09:54
ruskiejonwil, well it would be nice...09:55
ruskiebut I doubt it will ever happen09:55
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ruskiewould be helpful if they release the code to the council with an NDA and the council then extends that NDA to devs that want to fix it...09:55
ruskieor any such way...09:55
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jonwilwell one suggestion was to have someone who works with nokia, has access to code to review in preparation for a release and can also fix bugs in code that Nokia is unwilling to release (e.g. 3rd party IP, legal reasons, not wanting to share sensitive algorithms)09:57
jonwilI cant remember details but I think someone put their hand up09:57
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jarkkom_I doubt it gets done, it seems anyone who could make decision like that at Nokia and had active interest in open source is gone or leaving soon10:01
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ebzzryHi! Can someone please point me to the correct thread regarding the issue wherein SMS conversations are not saved to el-v1.db.10:09
ruskieerm... use the search thingy?10:10
ruskieon tmo...10:10
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ebzzryruskie: I have already done that before, and the results I'm getting so far do not propose a reproducible solution.10:31
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pupnikobserved n900 used price range on last week: 150-290 euro - median 220-25010:46
pupnikcloser to 25010:47
jattI paid 500 for it10:47
ieatlintthat's a pretty good resale price10:47
ieatlinti bought mine for $500usd in november 2009... selling it for 250eur now is very decent10:48
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trxi bought mine in november for 200eur from my operator10:49
trxnormal price arround here was 600eur :/10:49
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jattdamn nokia10:52
jattso what is the real price of this thing?10:52
jattcannot fluctuate between 200EUR and 600EUR10:53
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RobbieThe1stI got mine for $325 about 6 months ago.10:53
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ieatlintthe price is the higher one10:53
trx200eur but with contract10:53
trxwithout a contract it was 60010:53
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chxyeah $300, refurbished, in October10:54
chxAmazon has it new for $34910:54
chxso that's the priceof it.10:54
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jattoh with contract10:56
jattI see I bought it without it10:56
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timelessiirc someone said there was a 0GBP w/ contract deal too11:03
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timelessof course, if you're paying in GBP, then your contract costs suck :)11:03
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trxi had a contract before my n900 so nothing changed and i got myself a cool mobile computer :)11:05
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* jonwil wonders what the license on the certificates in is11:10
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* jonwil wonders if its the same LGPL license as the rest of the code in that repo11:10
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* jonwil still cant find a license quote for libosso-graphics-game-chess either :(11:11
ruskieI would assume that anything on gitorious has some sort of valid open source license11:11
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jonwilI think in the absence of any other license statement, it would be difficult for Nokia to argue that those files are not LGPL11:12
jonwilosso-graphics-game-chess on the other hand11:13
ieatlintin the absence of any notation otherwise, the project is listed as GPL and LGPL11:13
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ieatlintso it's valid to assume any code in a project labeled as GPL/LGPL as being such unless otherwise noted11:13
jonwilThat means that FreeSmartPhone can use those certificates in their N900 port :)11:14
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ruskieow those11:14
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ruskieyou can get those from variosu certificate bundles in distros11:15
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ruskieor you can assemble them on your own11:15
jonwilAll I know is that there is talk about needing specific certificates to talk to the Nokia SUPL server for AGPS. And since the only place the AGPS SUPL server could could be getting certificates from is the ones in maemosec-certman, its good to know that any secret key or certificate is in fact free for FSO to use11:16
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jonwilfor their AGPS implementation11:17
ieatlinti think google runs an AGPS server too... not sure what the restrictions are11:18
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keriowhat's freesmartphone?11:27
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jonwilask in #opemoko-cdevel for more details about FSO on N90011:34
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mintuxhi I didn't my n900 os until now the current version is 3.2010.02-8.003 and I want to know how can I update my phone and what is new version ? also is it possible to install megoo ?11:41
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infobotrumour has it, flashing is
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jattmeego is not for production use11:42
jattmeego is in alpha stage11:42
psycho_oreoslatest official version is PR1.3 20.2010.36-211:42
mintuxmegoo is better than meamo ?11:42
jattmaybe in the future11:42
jattbut now is worst11:43
mintuxok . and what should I backup and what things removed from my phone ?11:43
jattnot even battery loading works11:43
jattjust don't install the thing11:43
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mintux jatt: for example my home ? and etc ?11:44
mintux jatt: how can I get the list of software installed?11:44
psycho_oreosI wouldn't suggest replacing maemo with meego directly. You can run it via microSD and such just to tinker around with it if you are desperate11:44
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jattdon't install meego just don't do it11:45
mintuxno i want to install maemo11:45
jattoh then everything is fine11:46
jattthere is a backup utility in the n900 use it11:46
mintuxbut I want to know what thing should I backup (for example home is very large ) and how can I get list of software installed ?11:46
jattin a terminal type dpkg -l11:46
jattthat will give you a list of installed software11:46
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psycho_oreosthere's two ways baackup, one is to use osso-backup which comes as standard with the device. It only downloads debs from the repositories that you originally have not any other 3rd party repositories, etc. Then there's backupmenu v2 which can backup your entire device albeit that requires multiboot11:47
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mintuxpsycho_oreos: I should install it ?11:48
mintuxbackupmenu v211:48
psycho_oreosmintux, its entirely up to you. If you have legacy apps that you want to retain working and if the latest PR1.3 doesn't suit your taste you can restore it. Plus backupmenu v2 does more backups from other places if need be, such as /home/user and /home/user/MyDocs.. places that osso-backup wouldn't touch (definitely not /home/user/MyDocs)11:49
psycho_oreosand there's two ways of updating, one is OTA and the other is flashing11:50
nid0but then, touching mydocs isnt needed for a reflash11:50
psycho_oreosnot unless you also flash emmc image11:50
mintuxi want to download firmware but I got this list11:51
mintuxwhich one of them should I download ?11:51
psycho_oreosthe flashing wiki page notes its a two stage process. One is to flash the emmc then you flash the fiasco11:51
nid0pr1.3 global11:51
mintuxnid0: PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 ?11:54
mintuxok and this version when released ?11:54
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DocScrutinizerWUT backmenu requires multiboot? NONSENSE11:56
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DocScrutinizer*nothing* reqires multiboot, multiboot is deprecated, and just nitdroid folks are still using it because they don't get it11:57
pupnikcan they run android from within a running maemo?12:04
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DocScrutinizerthey can use uBoot for sure12:05
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DocScrutinizers/can/could and should be able to/12:08
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: they could and should be able to use uBoot for sure12:08
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ruskiehindsight is a wonderful thing...12:17
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pupnikSpeedEvil: looks like a fair summary to me12:18
pupnikone of the few reviews that even mentions maemo/77012:18
pupnikor retrospectives12:18
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compengiis it possible to reach the peak points in charging the battery on usb port?12:22
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SpeedEvil'peak points'?12:25
compengithe maximum battery charge12:25
SpeedEvilIt just takes a little longer.12:26
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ruskie"changing the microSD card causes WP7 to restore factory defaults" <-- WTF???12:26
compengiSpeedEvil, do you need a software? nokia wtvr?12:26
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ruskieinteresting... so not much has changed since windows mobile... "Opinion in my company where we have several win7 phone users is that it is rubbish. Missing major functions, drops calls, crashes all the time. They all want different phones"12:28
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SpeedEvilcompengi: ?12:28
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SpeedEvilcompengi: No software is needed to charge the battery12:28
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DocScrutinizers/no/no special additional/12:32
compengiSpeedEvil, weird, i've plugged in the phone on the usb, at the end the phone showed that it was charged on 95% from hal-device output, i plugged it on the adapter and it continues charging :/12:32
DocScrutinizercompengi: on replugging it always restarts charging12:33
DocScrutinizer95% from hal is as good as it gets afaik12:33
compengiand there is no more accurate way to check it?12:35
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SpeedEvilNot with the standard software.12:35
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timelessSpeedEvil: great article, too bad they misspelled 'n900'12:46
nid0most likely just a typo for the missed n, they got it right on the media player image caption12:47
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Jartzathat corporate attention deficit hyperactivity disorder was the reason I left Nokia12:58
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pupnikn900 wasn't missing much... :(12:58
APTXyou talk like it's not there anymore12:59
nid0from nokia's perspective, it isnt13:00
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SpeedEvilI love the next post.13:00
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denohi there13:02
denois it normal that the kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb occupies just 1.9 MB?13:04
denoit seems very light..13:04
timeless :)13:04
timeless isn't bad either13:06
nid0I must say I do often like the fact that I work for a small company13:07
nid0"hey, what about doing this?" "sure, give it a shot" is about as hard as it gets13:07
Kowalczykwith the introduction of WP7. you think Nokia will drop support for n900 / maemo completely?13:10
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TrewasKowalczyk: how could they drop it even more? they would have to invent new kind of concept for dropping :)13:11
Kowalczykhaha :D13:11
nid0they could visit every n900 owner and smash the phones13:11
psycho_oreoswow that'd be a honour13:12
pupnikN900 is still the only fun phone for me :/13:12
pupnikif we could just get a commitment to *one* successor device13:13
Kowalczykpupnik: same here..13:13
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denopupnik, what about android phones?13:13
nid0the big shame is with the seeming lack of any n900 successor anytime soon I had been seriously thinking of picking up an e7, as i've really liked all my past e-series and communicator devices13:14
pupniki have an android tablet... so far, not fun.13:14
jonwilNokia can have my N900 when they pry it from my cold dead hands (or when they give me a free replacement of a superior phone)13:14
Kowalczykwhat I mean then... what will happen to n900 I mean?13:14
nid0but following last week, buying a symbian device seems like a dumb idea13:14
psycho_oreosa probable meego device, I wonder what will they stuff inside it, probably fill it with inferior parts compared to their upcoming WP7 phone.. make meego act like winME for the springboard financial boost13:14
psycho_oreoss/the financial/their financial/13:15
pupniki'd be real happy with omap3640 and 512MB13:15
ruskieI thought nokia did commit to one MeeGo device this year...13:15
pupniki hope that device has a cellphone radio13:15
psycho_oreosyeah they did say that but there's no indication what it'll be13:15
psycho_oreosthey've axed the great n913:16
TrewasKowalczyk: nothing will happen to n900 as far as nokia is concerned, I don't think they produce them anymore and it would be a surprise to get any updates13:16
psycho_oreosits probably a good indication they probably won't create something equivalent or better than the specs of the n913:16
nid0theyve axed *a hardware variant* of what might have become the n913:16
KowalczykTrewas: ok.... but aas long as maemo lives on it will be okay.. regarding packages and so on13:17
KowalczykI hope:d hehe13:17
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jarkkom_nid0, you could do that at nokia too, I've heard about lots of interesting expirements. it's just that things would never get past engineer level because someone above thought it would mess with their bonuses or something and cancel the project13:17
ruskieTrewas, community SSU ;)13:18
psycho_oreosand to fill the new n9 with the supposedly inferior stuff?13:18
nid0jarkkom_: yeah thats the difference though, i get the "sure, give it a shot", try it, and if it works, deploy it13:18
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pupnikthere are serious fixed costs to releasing any phone though - case moulding, production facility, certification, channel distribution13:19
KowalczykiPhone next then:d hehe :D13:19
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psycho_oreosI wouldn't consider about buying iphone unless there's no android devices that could satisfy me. But then again I'd choose iphone anyday over WP7 if I were forced to choose either of those13:21
pupnikyeah but with either you're basically caged in the role of a consumer13:21
El_Angelodoes the maemo built-in skype caller have video?13:21
pupnika monkey pushing at the screen13:21
El_Angelocause i just tried13:21
nid0tbh theres nothing wrong with wp7, the amount of bashing it gets just because it has a "microsoft" tag on it from people who've never even touched it is kinda tiresome13:21
El_Angeloand though i could see myself, my companions at the other end of the line couldn't13:21
Kowalczykpsycho_oreos: same her.. rather iPhone than WP713:22
nid0El_Angelo: it does13:22
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psycho_oreosor you could look at blackberries and say there's nothing wrong with them either13:22
Kowalczykand I dont want an HTC. I had one.. so no13:22
pupnikimagine that E7 with 800x480, omap3 @ 1ghz and 512MB ram13:22
El_Angelonid0: i need anything special?13:22
pupniksad pupnik13:22
nid0El_Angelo: no, if you've got the camera button available, pressed it, and can see yourself they should be able to see you too13:22
psycho_oreosKowalczyk, glad that you agree :) then again, android would be a hell lot better if they took a different approach to their linux environment13:23
wazdpupnik: e7 is a heluva sexy phone13:23
wazdpupnik: on a hardware side13:23
pupniki know wazd ... beautiful13:23
pupnikfor me, the most beautiful phone ever13:23
nid0e7 would be fine software wise too if nokia hadnt just killed all possibility of further third-party development last week13:24
pupnikbut arm 1136 cpu13:24
wazdpupnik: yeah, looks like it for me too13:24
psycho_oreosI don't like WP7 phone to have a `windows' key. That just reminds me of how they made literally the entire PC market keyboards to have that `windows' key. What if you don't use windows on the phone? tough luck, suck shit and die?13:24
nid0how is this any different to the buttons android phones have to have?13:24
wazdpsycho_oreos: remember that nokia can do with wp7 whatever it wants13:25
psycho_oreosand then there was that news of them giving credits to chevronWP7 and not providing a native alternative OS installer13:25
wazdpsycho_oreos: no restrictions at all13:25
psycho_oreosandroid doesn't have a dedicated android button13:25
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pupnikhow about they release a wp7 phone and we get an unofficial maemo for it13:25
psycho_oreoswazd, correct and we as consumers will see what devices suits us13:25
alteregounofficial meego ..13:25
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nid0psycho_oreos: what difference does the logo on the button make?13:26
nid0android dictates required buttons, wp7 does the same, but only wp7 is lame because of it?13:26
psycho_oreosnid0, why must they place a logo of windows on it?13:26
wazdnid0: dunno, but I'm talking about possibilities to remove it if they'd like it13:26
psycho_oreosandroid doesn't dictate that it must require an android button with a symbol of android13:27
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denoguys is it normal that the kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46_armel.deb occupies just 1.9 MB?13:27
wazdpsycho_oreos: it's basically just a home button13:27
psycho_oreosapple doesn't do it with their iphone/ipad why must microsoft do it? proud-ness?13:27
psycho_oreoswazd, that's not my point13:27
SpeedEvildeno: that sounds about right13:27
El_Angeloso all i should have to do is push the 'touchscreen camera button' ?13:27
wazdpsycho_oreos: I see your point and I tell you that nokia is able to change it :)13:28
denoSpeedEvil, the source code is about 70MB however13:28
timeless is pretty good as a read13:28
SpeedEvildeno: You are not however including any MCA bus support.13:28
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SpeedEvildeno: Or support for fibrechannel.13:28
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denoSpeedEvil, do you know where is the file responsible for these inclusions?13:29
SpeedEvilthe makefile13:29
SpeedEviland .config in the root of the source directory13:29
psycho_oreoswazd, yeah and again I'm implying that nobody is forced to buy the upcoming WP7 phone by nokia. Everyone is entitled to their rights, and hopefully nokia will wake up to their loss of the once beloved linux community, too bad Elop doesn't see it that way. As one person on that the register's news, Elop is no better than a microsoft's beancounter13:29
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denoSpeedEvil, ah ok13:30
denoSpeedEvil, thx13:31
wazdpsycho_oreos: just remember that symbian was not nokia's OS right from the day-113:31
wazdpsycho_oreos: they bought it from Psion as I remember13:32
wazdepoc and stuff13:32
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psycho_oreoswazd, I didn't make any mentioning of symbian, nor do I really have any concern for symbian either13:32
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ping13:42
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you got your bits together to implement a *compatible* rtcom-dialer-ui? with all the shit like "select service" etc?13:43
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ruskie <-- hmm13:45
DocScrutinizerjonwil and I are chatting about how to implement some things regarding outbound call management, which bits are involved, how to tweak them, etc. We need all the help we can get, to understand how all this is working, from very top (UI) down to the bare metal (cellmo, SIP, Skype)13:46
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jonwilIf someone can tell me how the "call type" button on the dial pad (which presumably lets you select skype, sip, GSM etc) works then I can find out which bits are the important bits13:46
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DocScrutinizeraah, sorry. I called this button "select service"13:47
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jonwilbut yeah I am convinced that we need telepathy-ring and osso-mission-control13:54
LjLon the topic of "rtcom" or "haze" or whatever should i call it... :P anybody knows what i am supposed to get for OS2008? there are a few repositories with various flavors of those packages around that i can see. i'd mainly like to use as many protocols as possible in Chat13:55
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ruskiewhy not just get a jabber account and use jabber transports to whatever protocols you want then...13:56
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LjLruskie: yeah that's an alternative i guess. i did wonder what the advantages/disadvantages of it compared to using rtcom might be...13:57
LjLalso, i'm not sure how to do that in the first place. is it something i do from the web on my server ( or whatever?)13:57
zutesmoghey does anyone know of a  network shared clipboard (like spike) that runs over xmpp that could run on n900 and other desktops ?13:57
ruskiethrough a jabber client13:57
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ruskieyou do service discovery and you get that...13:58
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jonwilanyone know what ohm is?13:58
ruskiezutesmog, never heard of spike... but if I needed to do somethig like that I'd just use socat probably13:58
ruskiejonwil, ? ohm? as in the unit of resistance?13:59
jonwilits a set of packages on the n90013:59
ruskieand apt-cache info doesn't explain them?13:59
LjLruskie: that's not something Chat has though, does it? or am i very blind :P13:59
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ruskieLjL, no clue14:00
zutesmogruskie, looking for something more integrated with the clipboard on both ends.14:00
LjLfair enough, i'll set it up with some other client14:00
ruskiebut you can use any jabber client that supports it to add it... and it should show up in all other clients as well14:00
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pupnik3D phone, dual-core omap4, IPS stereoscopic display, 2-4x performance of N900,
zutesmogyep, though direct clipboard support isn't really there,  Also a lot of jabber clients (say gtalk) don't like xml formatted messages.14:01
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zutesmogIt's a utility I find I want all the time.  Copy a link / paste it to my desktop (read it later) and vica versa, or some other text.14:01
ruskiezutesmog, assuming X is on both ends... xclip+socat could do it... but I guess you would need to run a specific command after copying to transfer the stuff...14:01
zutesmogLooks like I might have to write something14:02
ruskieor monitor the clipboard to do it14:02
zutesmogMy other end may not be online to recieve, so it needs to be able to store and forward (like offline chat in gtalk).14:02
ruskiethat's not a gtalk feature ;)14:02
ruskieit's a xmpp feature ;)14:02
zutesmoglooks like an appengine app backend, oauth login.14:02
ruskiemost jabber/xmpp servers support it14:03
zutesmogI was using that as example why socat wouldn't do the job, and why I was looking for an xmpp based solution14:03
ruskieI'd probably make it some sort of a web page more likely14:04
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ruskiecopy... paste into a web page... have link on devices to link them together...14:04
zutesmogI spend all my time building appengine stuff.   i was thinking more like an private intelligent pastebin, with and alternate client implementation that has an integrated clipboard.14:04
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: ohm = open hardware manager afaik14:05
zutesmogfor me if I send something to the N900 for instance I would like a notification, and one click, into the clipboard.14:06
ruskiezutesmog, you mean like this: command(be it xclip or cat or whatever stdout) |curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us14:06
zutesmogalong those lines, just quicker and easier to use ;-)14:06
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ruskiethat can be dead easy to use you know...14:06
ruskiea single script can do it...14:07
ruskiethen just link a shortcut to it14:07
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ruskieand then send the returned url via xmpp message14:08
ruskiethough I think you would need a plugin for telepathy to get anything more single click14:08
zutesmogIt's a bit more than that I think, I would want to manage multiple pastes etc.....  Notifications, clipboard history and so on.14:08
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zutesmogI can cobble something immediately with a couple of python scripts, but would like a more integrated experience.  And I have been looking for something worthwhile (for me at least) to knock together for the N90014:10
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ruskie <-- now that's a phone to have handy...14:10
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Venemoachipa: ping14:15
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pupnikmotorola droid2 with omap3640 @ 1ghz could make a fine meego-phone (if opensource drivers are avail)
pupnikElpida K4332C1PD-50-F - 512MB Mobile DDR3 RAM for the OMAP363014:20
pupnikTI WL1271B WLAN Bluetooth/FM chip14:20
pupnikcamera doesn't compare to n900 apparently14:21
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debernardiscould Meego run on the Galaxy Tab?14:22
SpeedEvilMeego could run onmost high-end smartphones out there.14:23
pupnikor crawl, as the case may be14:23
SpeedEvilIf the makers eiither chose to let it, or it's rooted, and someone puts in the work porting it.14:23
pupnikneed 3d drivers14:23
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debernardisah, yes, great thing this so-called google: it's been done14:27
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mece1jacekowski, ping15:18
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pupnikto me the N900 is more 'powerful' than any 1ghz phone15:23
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pupnikto someone who can't do anything but slide their finger to the left and right15:24
pupnikit might seem like a device that updates the scroll at higher fps is 'more powerful'15:24
pupnikbut those are monkeys15:24
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alteregoOoo, someones done dome nice tweaks for IO ..15:27
pupnikin a new kernel alterego ?15:27
alteregoNo, just setting kernel variables.15:28
pupnikthat sounds like a welcome improvement15:28
DocScrutinizerthat sounds like swappolube15:29
alteregoDocScrutinizer: that has been menitoned.15:29
alteregoI didn't realise what swappalube did.15:29
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Venemoalterego: swappolube lets you set some kernel config to improve responsiveness15:38
alteregoNever used it, seems like this does the same kind of thing15:39
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Venemohey guys16:16
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MohammadAGanyone pinged?16:53
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alteregono, you're not _that_ popular.:P16:55
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alteregoMohammadAG: gonna look at your video overlay this evening :)16:56
alteregoSo I'll need you around to help me set my scht up.16:57
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MohammadAGalterego, "#maemo" was blue :p16:59
alteregoMohammadAG: use /lastlog MohammadAG then17:00
MohammadAGoh btw17:00
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MohammadAGthe N900 is not class 2 BT17:00
MohammadAGClass 2 is 10m iirc17:00
jonwilwell I was trying to talk to you earlier regarding dialer stuff, trying to figure out if advanced call control (e.g. detecting call and routing to cheaper SIP number) was possible17:00
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MohammadAGwith the BT messenger test I did today, the other N900 could receive messages from 20m away17:00
MohammadAGpossibly more, at least 2017:01
jonwilunfortunatly what I found is that if you try and change things in the lower layers (telepathy, mission-control etc), the dialer will get confused17:01
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jonwilthats based on my reverse engineering of the dialer code anyway17:01
MohammadAGI expect it to be hardcoded17:02
MohammadAGas most of the stuff on the N900 is17:02
jonwilso our initial idea to file a license change request for telepathy-ring to help implement the call control is moot and we dont need to file the request17:02
MohammadAGunless we kill the stock dialer17:03
jonwiland replace it with a custom one (which will never handle all the wierd corner cases)17:03
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jonwilBasically when you activate the contact or when you press the "call type" button, thats when the account system is invoked and identifies e.g. the skype or SIP account details to use17:04
jonwilthen when you press the call button, it passes this pre-determined account information on to the lower layers17:04
jonwili.e. telepathy17:05
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DocScrutinizercan anybody tell me what makes dbus-daemon eat 50B (session) rsp 40MB (system) of RAM? o.O - admittedly on my x86, not checked on fremantle yet17:19
DocScrutinizerstinks like memleak17:19
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mgedminRSS of dbus-daemon is 7.2 and 2.2 MB here17:21
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crashanddie"“Excluded License” means any license requiring, as a condition of use, modification and/or distribution of the software subject to the license, that the software or other software combined and/or distributed with it be (i) disclosed or distributed in source code form; (ii) licensed for the purpose of making derivative works; or (iii) redistributable at no charge. Excluded Licenses include, but are not limited to17:27
crashanddiethe GPLv3 Licenses. For the purpose of this definition, “GPLv3 Licenses” means the GNU General Public License version 3, the GNU Affero General Public License version 3, the GNU Lesser General Public License version 3, and any equivalents to the foregoing."17:27
DocScrutinizermy values RSS as well17:27
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: say thanks to RMS:
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denodo you know if our nokia support DMA transfers?17:43
DocScrutinizerdeno: ?? N900 OMAP3430? sure it has several DMA channels17:45
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: uptime?17:46
denoDocScrutinizer, ok17:46
kamuiaah man, is it true about meego's impending death?17:46
kamuiI've been off the scene for a while since I scrapped my N90017:47
denoDocScrutinizer, thx17:47
mgedminDocScrutinizer, up 10 days,  2:13,17:47
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: 16:47    148 Tage  1:10  here. I think it's more like your values after boot17:47
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mgedminnice uptime there -- your kernel must be full of bugs, though17:48
DocScrutinizerthat's not exactly an exposed server, so I can live with a few bugs :-D17:49
DocScrutinizerI'm kinda pissed about that supposed bug in dbus-daemon though17:51
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Cor-Aiis there a way to send sms via the terminal on n900? :p17:54
crashanddieCor-Ai, google17:54
Cor-Aihave tried that for some while now :/17:55
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valianholtHello, does maemo planet ( support RSS?17:57
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ThreeMwtf android has no syncml support?!18:17
Jaffa'salright, WP7 has no BT OBEX18:18
ThreeMBusiness class phones?!18:20
ThreeMuhhh incredible how smart there are18:20
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alteregoThere's a lot they both don't have ..18:22
alteregoHell Symbian is still the most featureful mobile OS there is.18:23
MohammadAGUbuntu is freaking annoying lately18:24
MohammadAGdon't hibernate my laptop if you can't do it properly18:24
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merlin1991MohammadAG, hibernate never worked for me :D18:25
MohammadAGit works for me, 3/4 the times18:26
MohammadAGthe 1/4 is the time when I really need everything back18:26
MohammadAGthere's no way to disable it18:26
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merlin1991for me mesa dies, and when it comes back I have weird lines on the screen :D18:28
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denodo you know if is possible to use ehci instead of musb?18:36
SpeedEvilthe controller is an musb controller, which is not compatible with the normal cotroller.18:37
GAN900sjgadsby's unerring rationality makes for boring flamewars.18:38
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ShadowJKwell ehci isn't even connected to anything18:39
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slonopotamusSc0rpius: morning18:40
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ShadowJKoh you mean using ehci driver? no18:40
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denoSpeedEvil, the normal controller?18:40
denoShadowJK, yep I want to use the ehci driver18:40
denoit is better, isn't it?18:40
ShadowJKThere's both ehci and musb controller in n900's omap3 chip, but ehci isn't connected to anything18:41
denoShadowJK, ok18:41
denobut you said that it was not compatible with the normal controller. What do you mean with this?18:41
ShadowJKand using ehci driver for musb controller isn't going to work at all :)18:42
ShadowJKSpeedEvil meant the ehci driver is incompatible with the musb controller18:42
denoah ok18:42
denoyep are 2 different things18:42
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denouhm is this musb controller slower than the ehci one?18:43
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ShadowJKdunno, on beagleboard before they got ehci working people used musb with hubs to connect ethernet dongles, keyboards, mice and harddrives at the same time..18:44
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slonopotamus is it alive at all?18:45
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denouhm because I can use some device with the n900 but not all18:45
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SpeedEvilSuch as?18:45
denodevices that uses isochronous transfers18:46
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denolike the kinect18:46
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denoSpeedEvil, I think it doesn't find endpoints or something like that18:47
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* DocScrutinizer hates it to search for 10min to come up with sth like, just to learn the user who asked about musb-core, isochronous, ehci, endpoints and whatnot has left the chan19:45
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RST38hAnything new and exciting today? Apocalypse? Nokia switching to desktop version of Win7?19:58
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MohammadAGRST38h, they announced the N9 with Windows 820:00
RST38hAh cool20:00
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trumeeguys, i am trying to package upstream sofia-sip in my scratchbox, but end up with an error "cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/lib/libsofia-tools.a': No such file or directory"20:14
trumeei copied debian/ from fremantle sofia-sip_1.12.10-0maemo5+0m5.tar.gz to the upstream sofia-sip folder, but compilation fails with the above error20:15
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vi_so whos gonnae steal the maemo source code for us?20:25
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ThreeMgamegripper is a nice addon xD20:36
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Jaffalcuk2: When're you going to finish liq so it can do: ?20:39
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lcuk2Jaffa, offs20:42
asimulatorhi lcuk20:42
lcuk2i think i need to give up20:42
lcuk2:D asimulator20:42
Jaffalcuk2: It looks very cool20:42
lcuk2the one shining light today :$20:42
asimulatorreally? i went in here cause i was deprese20:42
lcuk2Jaffa, that is exactly what I want to do and stuff20:42
JaffaBad day? :-(20:42
lcuk2I asked lardman for ages about multibarcode stuff20:43
lcuk2that works without the camera and lets all the devices do it20:43
lcuk2but without extra fingers near me I will never fucking do anything20:43
lcuk2asimulator, sorry for my rant, you are mentione dhere20:44
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asimulatorhey i'm pretty depressed20:45
mikhaswhat is it?20:46
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asimulatorwhat everyone is depressed about20:49
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asimulatorexcept, i'm not a coder20:49
asimulatorwtf am i goign to do with my life20:49
lcukasimulator, :) if I start a business I will happily have you on my team :)20:50
mikhasYou will continue to do great UX design, what else!20:50
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* lcuk went and did some breathing20:50
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mikhasJust as I will continue coding. Maybe less coding in Qt, who knows ;-)20:50
blizzowWhat tweaks should I make, or apps are necessary for a good experience on a fresh N900?20:50
lcukasimulator, guess what20:51
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lcukI sussed out how to make UI pretty with a simple change :)20:51
mikhasThose who pushed MeeGo into the open have foreseen this. Though I would have expected Intel to blink away, not Nokia.20:52
mikhasActually, it's great that we still have a project.20:53
asimulatori guess that's true20:53
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asimulatorlcuk thanks, that means a lot to me heh20:53
mikhasCould have been much worse. Imagine this had happened 13 months ago. before MeeGo was born.20:53
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alteregoI was just thinking, is the N900 the only Nokia phone without buttons on the front face20:58
lcukJaffa, for the 2009 Maemo summit, we discussed possibility of an app which expected all users to hold up their phones and each would be a pixel on a whole display20:58
alteregoI wonder who decided to ditch the task-switched and home buttons.20:59
alteregoI guess, if the N900 was a phone first, it'd have the green and red buttons like most other phones of theirs.20:59
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* lcuk writes an email to Rich Green.21:03
pupnik_how come LG is releasing dual-core Omap4 and Tegra phones while Nokia is releasing ARM1136 phones?21:05
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pupnik_for their high-end mind you...21:06
bjvon n810, the whole screen will sometimes (once every 20 days maybe) "decay" in vertical lines until blank.  playing back .mytube .flv with mplayer causes it most often.21:07
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* VladNistor says hello21:07
bjvinterfaces/sshd are still up,  but sluggish21:08
VladNistori have a memory card which i've formated to ext3. when i plug it in Maemo says format not supported21:08
VladNistoris that normal?21:08
bjvonly thing in dmesg is a omapfb mesg about some 'line' not being ready, & kmesg suppressing 8-9 repeats of same.  what is more interesting is after issuing and init 621:09
bjvthe 810 appeared to reboot, played the nokia startup sound21:09
bjvbut the screen was still black21:09
bjvbacklight on, but black & fully blank. no logo, boot progress, nada21:09
bjvdoes this sound familiar?21:10
bjvthis is not the first time this has happened to me21:10
bjvbut it is the first time i checked dmesg w/ sshd21:10
bjvand first time i tried to init 621:10
bjvinstead of just removing the battery pack21:11
bjvseems like there is a bug in omapfb, yeah?21:11
bjvno luck googling for similar cases21:11
bjvwhat's more weird is that a soft reboot does not fix the issue21:12
bjvit's like the bad driver puts the hardware21:12
bjvin some unrecoverable state,21:12
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lcukbjv does it boot normally after you pop battery?21:13
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bjvextremely odd/worrying, and makes me nervous *every time* i play a video,21:15
bjvlike at the gym for a workout, or etc.21:15
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bjvomapfb omapfb: s1d1374x: line buffer not ready21:19
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bjvprintk: 5 messages suppressed21:19
bjvon and on like that.21:20
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pupnik_nokia E7 should have had omap3640 @ 1-1.2ghz with 384-512MB RAM, and symbian with a hacker version of meego available21:24
pupnik_there are so many fixed costs of making a phone, putting in the extra $50 for quality cpu and display is a no-brainer for your high-end device21:24
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lcukpupnik_, even better would be doing full complete design and specifications based on the slower one21:25
lcukthen switching it out to a faster model just prior to release21:25
lcukthereby gaining uber optimisations and huge smiles from everyone using it21:26
lcukbecause your code has a huge amount of headroom21:26
lcukand extra processing power to do all the things it wanted21:26
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* Arkenoi wonders why not just open e7 specs, i bet it would take just a few months to get meego running by community effort alone21:37
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pupnik_Arkenoi: because it is too weak to run meego21:46
pupnik_lmao htc cameras SUCK21:46
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Trapphello world22:04
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DocScrutinizerand in our second example, we learn how to /ns register, and to start a real conversation on IRC22:16
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DocScrutinizerhello human22:17
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ieatlintreal conversations don't happen on irc22:22
ieatlintit's mostly awkward nerdy exchanges, trolling, and teenagers looking for porn22:22
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lcukieatlint, its also an excellent collaborative communication system22:27
infobotlcuk meant: ieatlint, it's also an excellent collaborative communication system22:27
ieatlintyes, and most tech companies have internal irc servers running for just that purpose22:29
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MohammadAGBT messenger working :D22:34
MohammadAGtis a shame there's no school tomorrow, it's the only place where there's a shitload of N900s22:35
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DocScrutinizera dhitload?? o.O22:41
DocScrutinizerstill wondering what a BT messenger is doing22:42
DocScrutinizerwell, I've actually seen somebody with a N900 recently - - - he bought it after I told him about mine, when he gave me his Freerunner to fix the GPS :-D22:43
ieatlint"entrance" as a verb is apparently very different than as a noun22:44
merlin1991MohammadAG, shitload of n900s at school? I was the only one in the whole school :D22:44
DocScrutinizerI should ask Nokia for my comission22:45
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: lol22:46
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, chat without paying for SMS, without the availability of Wi-Fi, and... without making a sound22:46
MohammadAGideal for schools and unis :P22:46
MohammadAGmerlin1991, 3 (including me) in my class22:46
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merlin1991well I must admit I was in the final class when the n900 came out :D22:47
MohammadAGand my class is only 18 peeps22:47
DocScrutinizerso not far from what I thought about, for failsafe alternative networks, e.g. on huge demonstrations22:47
* DocScrutinizer suspects MohammadAG has a flourishing little business with selling gray import cell phones22:48
MohammadAGmerlin1991, last class here too :p22:49
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yeah, that's why I still can't test the app without another N900 :p22:49
DocScrutinizersure, you're out of stock, due to huge demand22:49
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MohammadAGhi _nicolai_22:50
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MohammadAG_nicolai_, I was thinking of adding some gconf commands to postinst that set max to 5 and step to 1, since some people are having problems for some reason22:52
MohammadAGand the N900s really won't vary on the hardware/brightness level :)22:52
_nicolai_MohammadAG, do you know *why* they have different gconf settings?22:53
pupnik_there's just a void beyond the n90022:54
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MohammadAGnope, I'm guessing cause the postinst reregisters the gconf schemas22:56
MohammadAGit worked fine for me though22:56
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MohammadAGsome users are seeing only 1 button in the CSSU display panel rewrite23:03
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MohammadAGno biggy really, minor change in gcnof should fix it23:03
ArGGu^^MohammadAG why you need to chat without making a sound?23:03
DocScrutinizerwhat's your target? /sys/screen/foo/brightness?23:03
MohammadAGcause I'm in class?23:03
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MohammadAGno no no, that's fine23:03
_nicolai_btw, I searched for the gconf setting "tweaks" they could have applied and found another interesting thing:
MohammadAGgconftool-2 -g /system/osso/dsm/display/max_display_brightness_levels23:04
MohammadAGthat should return 523:04
_nicolai_does someone knows why these inihibit blank modes are undocumented?23:04
DocScrutinizerFYI: seems maemo kernel screen backlight brightness driver is fubar23:04
_nicolai_this seems an easy way to enable a "display always one" mode23:05
DocScrutinizer_nicolai_: because Nokia doesn't want somebody to disable autu-dim?23:05
MohammadAGcould you possibly change the checkbox to a hildon value button?23:05
MohammadAGsome users might actually like this feature23:06
SpeedEvilWhat feature?23:06
* SpeedEvil comes in late after going out to post stuff.23:06
MohammadAGsecond post, 0-423:06
MohammadAGonly problem is, strings would be confusing for the user23:07
DocScrutinizersome basics: human physiology isn't sensing brightness differences less than factor 2. with a /sys/foo/brighness range of 0..255 = 2^8 this are exactly 8 levels, incl off23:07
MohammadAG~seen timeless23:07
infobottimeless <58730824@firefox/developer/timeless> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9h 39m 15s ago, saying: ' is pretty good as a read'.23:07
SpeedEvilof 2-25523:07
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, when do us humans get a firmware upgrade?23:08
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MohammadAGwe obviously need one, I want 3D first23:08
SpeedEvil2 is usually dim enough, but I could actually like it to go another order of magnitude dimmer or so at times.23:08
ArGGu^^MohammadAG you cannot have conversation in class?23:08
MohammadAGArGGu^^, not if it's not related to what's being talked about in class23:09
MohammadAGanyway, that just an example :P23:09
ArGGu^^Is you class more lecture type?23:09
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MohammadAGno, it's a school class23:09
DocScrutinizersome hw facts: there are at very least 2 independent ways to change backlight brightness: direct programming of LCM via I2C (that'S what probably is done now via /sys), plus a BL inhibit GPIO line from SoC that probably can get pulsed via hw PWM (I suspect that one currently unused)23:09
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ArGGu^^no no I mean is it more that you are listening not doing something?23:10
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ArGGu^^because of course that kind course need to be silent23:11
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MohammadAGwell, yeah23:12
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ArGGu^^ok, I just usually have courses that are more independent. So there no need to be silent.23:14
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DocScrutinizer(GPIO line) GAIA N4200:M4 GPIO6/PWM0  - the EE @ Nokia is really decent, most of the time23:18
DocScrutinizeralas the SW department seems not on par with that23:18
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ArGGu^^MohammadAG btw how is the mediaplayer?23:18
DocScrutinizerbtw, probably via GPIO7/PWM1 IHF_EN you might be able to output audio beep without any higher level DA data streaming interface or codec set up23:20
corecodei'm having issues with xmpp video - the video display often breaks and becomes green and only shows the real video partially23:20
corecodeis that a known problem?23:20
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DocScrutinizernice job, Nokia EE, respect!23:22
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ZogG_N900is extas and cssu repos down? don't work for me a couple days already23:22
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keriothey're gone23:24
ZogG_N900are* extra-dev*23:24
ZogG_N900oh nooooooo23:24
ZogG_N900now we have ms-community and extra-mono?23:24
keriom$su and visualbasic-dev23:25
ZogG_N900yay \o/23:25
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, ?23:25
ArGGu^^btw, what phone people are getting next?23:26
* ZogG_N900 hugs kerio 23:26
ZogG_N900we are alone probably here23:27
mikhasIPhone, of course23:27
ArGGu^^I was thinking to get just small tablet and use voip :D23:27
ZogG_N900ArGGu^^, i'll stick with this till i see what meego phones are out23:27
ArGGu^^tried it over 3g worked just fine at my home23:28
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ZogG_N900ArGGu^^, go for it23:28
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ZogG_N900i think webos looks sexy23:28
MohammadAGi might the atrix and dd its rootfs23:28
ArGGu^^but there is areas that are not yet covered by 3g :S23:28
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ZogG_N900MohammadAG, say what?23:29
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MohammadAGport meego on it23:29
MohammadAGandroid sucks23:29
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ZogG_N900atrix what da that?23:29
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MohammadAGMotorola Atrix23:30
ArGGu^^well I'm going use the n900 still over a year. maybe there is 3g network in the whole finland by then.23:30
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, maemo > android > *23:30
MohammadAG1GB RAM, dual core 1GHz Tegra23:30
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, good luck, they block bootloader23:30
valianholtlook at Samsung Galaxy S ll23:31
valianholtsimilar HW specs23:31
MohammadAGthe atrix beats it23:31
ZogG_N900samsung are shitty23:31
valianholtin HW?23:31
ZogG_N900htc are sweet imho23:31
Cor-AiDocScrutinizer: ohh, thanks!23:31
ArGGu^^would be cool if someone else would bring meego phones :S23:31
ZogG_N900i'll go with doc's openmoko23:31
valianholtsamsung does great HW, cool displays, about ROM, I would use Cyanogen all the time anyway, so...23:31
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, so is it me or repos down?23:32
ZogG_N900low batt23:32
MohammadAGit's you23:32
chxoh my lord the atrix23:32
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, no way =(23:32
DocScrutinizeryou tried downforeveryoneorjustme ?23:32
chxi *knew* this will come for so very long23:32
ZogG_N900DocScrutinizer, nope =)23:32
chxone brain, many docking stations23:32
chxthe only one missing is the gaming docking station but that's a few years still23:33
ZogG_N900motorola is nogo23:33
valianholtactually MeeGo is still the best OS project in mobile world so far23:33
valianholtno matter what Nokia did23:33
ZogG_N900chx, ps tablet on the way23:33
* DocScrutinizer won't plug his brain to any docking station23:33
chxthat's not the same23:33
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ZogG_N900chx, the worl is not the same23:34
MohammadAGyou already did23:34
ZogG_N900gonna go.23:34
ZogG_N900batt is low23:34
MohammadAGit's called your spine23:34
ZogG_N900DocScrutinizer, is all internets23:34
ZogG_N900he uploaded hmself in here23:34
* DocScrutinizer is skynet23:34
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DocScrutinizerwhat do you think why I never sleep? :-P23:35
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DocScrutinizersee, my older device is called t900. You could have known23:36
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valianholtNeoPwn2 going to be released on N900 soon23:36
MohammadAGwhy do we care?23:37
MohammadAGlxp already released the drivers23:37
MohammadAGthe rest is a PyQt UI23:37
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ArGGu^^is that fake?23:39
MohammadAGlooks legit to me23:40
pupnik_how is a n900 'locked to vodafone'?  seller on uk thinks his n900 is locked23:42
kerioi thought it was possible23:42
MohammadAGindeed, locking is possible23:43
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Sc0rpiusoh you guys thought all N900 were unlocked'23:47
Sc0rpiusnot all of them are unlocked23:47
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ZogGpupnik_ go to setting and push lock for simcard =)23:54
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pupnik_i knew it was possible just not aware of carriers that provided it23:59
pupnik_i don't suppose anyone is selling a n900 here23:59

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