IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-02-16

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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: nope, not according to what I was able to pull outa timeless' nose00:02
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: he clearly said that it's meego subdivision that is building this meego device, and their focus (read product specs) haven't changed recently for that device. So if it's not been Nokia's plan since long ago to ship something completely different than a phone for first meego device, I'd guess chances it is now are marginal00:05
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javispedroNokia and plan on the same sentence should trigger a SIGALRM00:06
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DocScrutinizeractually it triggered a SIGSEGV00:06
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DocScrutinizerand yes, I know this from my own time at some other hw manufacturer, there's no use in putting any statements, as you never know what ideas mgmt got tomorrow00:09
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DocScrutinizernevertheless all this doesn't invalidate my rationale above, I think00:10
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SpeedEvilAlso - there was the above-mentioned quote in the statement saying that it was a phone, in passing.00:10
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* javispedro 's Phone 7 SDK download is at 95%... it's about that time everything dies abruptly so that I have to redownload00:13
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DocScrutinizerLOL00:13
thomasjfoxjavispedro: It doesn't want you to download it! Try the meego SDK, that one will finish 100%00:13
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: don't you think that's all part of the masterplan? Tomorrow M$ comes up with "3 mio downloads of WP7 SDK in only 4 days. Microkia great success at developers'"00:14
javispedro3 million downloads from 2 different IPs only!00:15
javispedro127.0.0.1 and mine!00:15
DocScrutinizerhahahahahaha00:15
lardmanlol00:15
DocScrutinizerit's YOU who builds their success :-P00:16
* trumee likes the Tesco app in android market. Much easier to use then let javascript kill MicroB00:17
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javispedroNo, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!00:17
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nox-http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/02/15/lg.optimus.3d/00:17
javispedro"Error code 00500. A unknown error happened with" (yes, dialog box ends there)00:17
MohammadAGA unknown?00:18
MohammadAGepic spelling00:18
DocScrutinizerROTFL, M$ at its finest00:18
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MohammadAGjavispedro, wget -c?00:18
DocScrutinizeractually it feels like it's ever been like this00:18
javispedroI am using their crappy downloader00:18
nox-what DocScrutinizer said00:18
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javispedroand the file is gone00:19
MohammadAGlol00:19
javispedrook, fsck this.00:19
lardmananyone know if the N900 has a wpa_supplicant.conf file anywhere?00:19
MohammadAGwhy not sniff it00:19
MohammadAGand use wget00:19
MohammadAGit doesn't use WS lardman00:19
lardmandrat00:19
lardmanthanks MohammadAG00:19
DocScrutinizeriirc javispedro is using wpa_supp00:20
DocScrutinizer;-)00:20
* MohammadAG rms javispedro's wpa_supplicant00:21
MohammadAGnot anymore00:21
javispedroI'm no longer using it since I don't have the need any more, but it's still around00:21
lardmanyeah, but he's not using my AP afaik! ;)00:21
DocScrutinizerlardman: you might be wrong though :-P00:21
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DocScrutinizerlardman: have you checked recently?00:22
lardmantrue :D00:23
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lardmanok, I've another good question for you knowledgeable chaps00:24
lardman;)00:25
DocScrutinizershoot00:25
* DocScrutinizer is bored00:25
lardmanhow do I get a cursor to appear in vi? Or indeed on my terminal at all00:25
DocScrutinizerumm, cursor like in xterm?00:26
lardmanyep00:26
DocScrutinizerhttp://inz.fi/blog/category/geeky/maemo/maemo-hackers/osso-xterm/  is all I can share00:27
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lardmanah, I don't want a binary, I just would like to see the cursor in vi when I log into my Tab running Meego00:28
nox-lardman, maybe the xterm needs a `reset'00:28
lardmanwould make it easier to edit files00:28
alteregoWhat ever happened to inz00:28
lardmannox-: nah done that00:28
nox-oh00:28
nox-ok i know nothing about meego's xterm...00:28
lardmannot xterm00:29
nox-maybe its b0rked somehow?00:29
lardmancommand line login00:29
nox-well, terminal emulator00:29
lardmannp00:29
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MohammadAGumm00:30
MohammadAGwhat awk/sed magic do i do on ii  mp-fremantle-community-pr                           20.2010.36-2maemo11                  Community SSU package, includes latest fixes from Gitorious and the community to get the version?00:30
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alteregoawk '{print $3}'00:31
DocScrutinizercut00:31
MohammadAGNokia-N900:/usr/lib/hildon-control-panel# dpkg -l mp-fremantle-community-pr | tail -1 | sed 's/ /\n/g' | grep maemo00:31
MohammadAG20.2010.36-2maemo1100:31
MohammadAGlooks nasty :p00:31
DocScrutinizeror what alterego said00:31
MohammadAGactually Nokia-N900:/usr/lib/hildon-control-panel# dpkg -l mp-fremantle-community-pr | sed 's/ /\n/g' | grep maemo00:32
MohammadAG20.2010.36-2maemo1100:32
LjLany hint how i might feed information into the gpsd? i basically want to make the system believe i'm in a certain location, even if there's no actual GPS fix (on the N810)00:32
* javispedro tries to as MohammadAG to find what the download server is, points wget to it and finds 3KiB/sec speeds00:33
MohammadAGjavispedro, should be done by next MWC!00:34
MohammadAGalterego, ty00:34
DocScrutinizerLjL: there's no gpsd00:34
LjLno gpsd? wow, i must have gotten it all real wrong :D00:34
DocScrutinizeryou could write a liblocation substitute and LDPRELOAD it00:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: N81000:35
DocScrutinizerooh00:35
DocScrutinizerMEH00:35
alteregoMohammadAG: dpkg -l $target | grep '^ii' | awk '{print $3}'00:35
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avenyhi there00:35
LjLah, i really did believe there was a gpsd :P00:35
LjLwhy's it been removed in N900? that seems silly to me00:35
alteregoMohammadAG: will return 0 string if the package is not installed.00:35
LjLalthough N900 does have GeoClue, doesn't it?00:35
alterego0 length sng that is00:35
javispedroLjL: http://gypsy.freedesktop.org/why-not-gpsd.html00:36
alteregoLjL: does on MeeGo00:36
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MohammadAGalterego, I already check if it's installed :)00:36
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LjLjavispedro: hmm i see. i don't entirely buy it, in the sense that ditching gpsd is bound to cause fragmentation and go back to a state where you can't access your device using multiple programs, but i guess there is a point.00:38
LjLi wish there was at least geoclue for OS2008 anyway. it seems to be there for OS2007... and i'd really like to have wifi-based location00:39
LjLalterego: ah i had gotten the impression it did on Maemo too00:39
javispedroseriously, seriously, does Nokia expect people to download the wp7 tools?00:41
Sc0rpiusseriously, seriously, does Nokia expect people to buy wp7 phones?00:41
MohammadAGhow do I add text to chars?00:42
MohammadAGusually in Qt, I use +00:42
javispedrothis completely and utterly sucks. I hope they have pendrives or something.00:42
avenyhi guys00:42
jacekowskiMohammadAG: depends00:43
avenycan you tell me what do you use to create patches for the kernel?00:43
jacekowskiaveny: diff00:43
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javispedroMohammadAG: g_strconcat?00:43
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sprintf()00:44
MohammadAGjavispedro, english? :P00:44
Sc0rpiusg_strconcat is a good solution I use that sometimes00:44
Sc0rpiusor g_strdup_printf00:44
MohammadAGversion = "Version: 20.2010.36-2" + output + "\n";00:44
jacekowskiMohammadAG: strncat, asprintf00:44
MohammadAGI was thinking that'd work, as with QString00:44
avenyjacekowski, just diff??00:44
jacekowskiMohammadAG: asprintf00:44
jacekowskiaveny: yes00:44
javispedroglib prefers g_strdup_printf over asprintf00:44
jacekowskiMohammadAG: asprintf will be easiest for you because it will handle allocation of memory for you00:45
jacekowskiMohammadAG: you just have to remember to free everything00:45
avenyjacekowski, what if you want to see the final patched code? always diff?00:45
MohammadAGremind me to never touch gtk00:45
javispedro(for the single reason g_strdup_printf comes with glib, which comes with gtk+, while asprintf is nonstandard addition to libc)00:45
jacekowskiaveny: i'm not sure what are you talking about00:45
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jacekowskiaveny: there is a lot ways of doing it00:45
javispedroMohammadAG: http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-String-Utility-Functions.html00:46
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jacekowskiaveny: i think what you will have to do is checkout it from git and then work on it00:46
jacekowskiaveny: and then do for example git diff00:46
jacekowskiaveny: and that will give you difference between your working copy and specific revision00:46
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jacekowskiaveny: but it's quite wide topic00:46
avenyjacekowski, uhm ok00:46
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avenyjacekowski, is there any useful guide? it's not so clear :)00:47
jacekowskiMohammadAG: nah, it's overloading that made everything easy for you00:47
jacekowskiaveny: not really00:47
jacekowskiaveny: there is git guide00:47
jacekowskiaveny: but you first have to know what you want00:47
jacekowskiaveny: do you want to write code yourself00:47
jacekowskiaveny: or what00:47
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avenyjacekowski, ok.. and.. if I want to modify one nokia patch, should I write another patch or can I just modify that patch?00:48
jacekowskithat sort of thing00:48
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jacekowskiyou ussualy apply all patches00:48
avenyjacekowski, I want modify one file of the kernel00:48
jacekowskimodify that file you want00:48
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MohammadAGjacekowski, heh00:48
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jacekowskiand diff it with file before your modification and after00:49
avenyuhm and in order to apply all the patches should I checkout that?00:49
jacekowskicomplicated00:49
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jacekowskiand i'm not sure where is that patch00:49
jacekowskiyou may have to branch it00:49
avenythe patch is this: nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff00:50
avenyI just want to modify some lines00:50
jacekowskiwhat for?00:50
avenyso I was thinking to modify just that patch instead of modify all00:50
jacekowskijust for yourself?00:50
avenyyes00:50
avenyjust for me00:50
jacekowskithen don't bother00:50
jacekowskijust apply all patches00:50
jacekowskimodify source00:50
jacekowskiand compile it00:50
avenyuhm00:51
avenythe fact is that I can compile only00:51
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avenyusing dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa00:51
jacekowskisame shit00:51
jacekowskijust make it whatever way it will work00:51
avenyif I try to do it with make I get errors00:52
jacekowskias long as nobody else sees it it's ok00:52
avenyuhm00:52
jacekowskithen you're doing it wrong00:52
jacekowskiread rules file00:52
jacekowskithere are some special options for make00:52
avenyI get strange compilation errors00:52
avenyinstead using that command I don't so00:52
jacekowskiMohammadAG: why are you trying to join that string before00:53
avenyit's a mess :/00:53
avenywait wait wait00:53
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jacekowskiaveny: there is wiki entry about compiling your own kernel00:54
avenyif I want to compile with make, should I apply all the patches before typing make?00:54
jacekowskiaveny: no00:54
alteregoaveny: that command doesn't build00:54
avenyjacekowski, I read it00:54
jacekowskiyou don't compile with make00:54
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avenymake EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 bzImage00:54
alteregomake bzImage00:54
avenythis should compile00:54
avenyyes that00:54
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alteregoHave you configured it?00:55
jacekowskinope00:55
avenyyes00:55
jacekowskimake EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 rx51_defconfig00:55
avenymake EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 rx51_defconfig00:55
jacekowskithat's first00:55
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jacekowskimake EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 bzImage00:55
avenyI get errors00:55
jacekowskithat's second00:55
alteregoAh yes.00:55
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jacekowskiwhat sort of errors00:55
avenyarch/arm/plat-omap/include/mach/pm.h:111:2: error: #error "Power management for this processor not implemented yet"00:55
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jacekowskihmm00:56
avenyI modified the pm.h in order to avoid that error but after there was another linking error00:56
avenyat the end00:56
jacekowskiand how you unpacked sources00:56
jacekowskiand where you've got them from00:56
avenyapt-get source kernel-power00:56
avenycd kernel-power-2.6.28/00:57
jacekowskithat should work00:57
avenyfakeroot apt-get build-dep kernel-power00:57
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avenydpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa00:57
avenyyep I know..00:57
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jacekowskilet me just check00:57
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avenyk thanks :)00:57
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avenyjacekowski, sorry00:59
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avenythat command worked sorry00:59
jacekowskiyeah00:59
avenythe command that gave me the errors was:00:59
jacekowskiwhat?00:59
avenycp debian/rx51power_defconfig arch/arm/configs/00:59
avenymake EXTRAVERSION=power46 rx51power_defconfig00:59
avenymake EXTRAVERSION=power46 bzImage00:59
avenythe arch/arm/plat-omap/include/mach/pm.h:111:2: error: #error "Power management for this processor not implemented yet"01:00
avenythe "normal" kernel is ok but compiling the power kernel gives me that error01:00
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jacekowskiahm01:02
alteregoTomorrow I get back into Columbus :)01:02
jacekowskiyeah i see the problem01:02
avenyk01:02
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jacekowskicomplicated to fix01:03
avenydamn it01:03
avenyso is not just me ok01:03
jacekowskijust edit that patch01:03
avenyok01:03
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lardmanhmm, does wpa_supplicant log to somewhere?01:03
jacekowskiand don't tell anyone01:03
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aveny:D01:03
avenyis it really so complicated to fix the error?01:03
jacekowskino01:04
jacekowskiyou would have to edit package01:04
avenyk01:04
jacekowskiquite simple01:04
jacekowskibut i's too complicated for me to explain it at 23:0001:04
avenyah ok01:04
jacekowski23:0401:04
jacekowskibecause i'm looking at screen with one eye01:04
avenybut why has been updated a kernel that has compiling problems?01:05
jacekowskibecause other one is sleeping already01:05
avenylol why?01:05
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avenyah k01:05
aveny:D01:05
avenyis not so late :P01:05
jacekowskiit is if you consider that i woke up at 04:00 today01:05
avenyjacekowski, ok this makes sense..01:05
avenythanks for the explanations01:05
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MohammadAGi should be asleep too01:06
avenyanother :D01:06
* javispedro would be..01:06
jacekowskiaveny: but you can read debian/rules01:06
MohammadAGschool, need to wake up at 6 and it's 101:06
jacekowskiMohammadAG: 6?01:06
javispedroif it not WERE BECAUSE OF FSCKING MS DOWNLOAD SERVER01:06
avenyjacekowski, to do what?01:06
MohammadAGcba to sleep though01:06
jacekowskiaveny: to understand how that package is built01:07
MohammadAGjacekowski, yeah01:07
jacekowskithat's bit early to go to school01:07
jacekowskiin my school days i never woke up before 9:0001:07
avenyjacekowski, what package? stupid question I know01:07
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avenyyep it's very early 6.0001:07
jacekowskibut that may be a reason why i barely passed01:07
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aveny:D01:07
merlin1991jacekowski, :D01:07
MohammadAGlol jacekowski01:08
MohammadAGwell, morning routine01:08
MohammadAGsyncing with gitorious /me stares at merlin199101:08
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jacekowskiand it wasn't the thing that i didn't like to go to school01:09
jacekowskii hated doing homework01:09
merlin1991*thumbs up* MohammadAG01:09
jacekowskiand going to school without homework always meant bad things01:09
jacekowskiso i just decided to not go01:09
MohammadAGi have two tests tomorrow01:09
MohammadAGdidn't study neither01:09
jacekowskii don't have problems with tests01:10
MohammadAGwhy? cause they're religion and arabic, two subjects I don't give a crap about01:10
jacekowskiit's just spending time at home doing school stuff01:10
jacekowskiwhen i could be doing fuck all01:10
jacekowskiesspecialy that i knew this stuff already01:10
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MohammadAGI just find Qt a bit more interesting01:11
jacekowskiand writing down 20th page of integrals was boring01:11
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jacekowskibut at the point where i can tell result of an integral by just looking at it it's pointless for me to do any more of them01:12
jacekowskiif you have to write it all down propely how you got to the result01:12
jacekowskiand highest grades on test wouldn't compensate for lowest grades on anything else01:13
jacekowskieverything else*01:13
jacekowskiso i was just barely passing01:13
jacekowskimy low attendance wasn't helping a lot as well01:13
MohammadAGsometimes when I'm bored with integrals I wrote the answer and worked from bottom to top01:13
MohammadAGs/'m/was01:14
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BCMM_MohammadAG: i thought you did teh Noor package?01:15
BCMM_(that's arabic, religion, and not Qt)01:15
MohammadAGI did01:15
jacekowskinoor?01:16
MohammadAGQuran app, needed it for a religion test :P01:17
jacekowskihmmm01:17
jacekowskiNoor (play), the play by Akbar Ahmed01:17
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jacekowskiQueen Noor of Jordan01:17
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jacekowskior city in iran01:17
MohammadAGlol01:17
lofty306if he was in iran he prob wouldnt be here01:18
Per_n900Where is MohammadAG from? Israel?01:19
javispedro"We’ve also long been impressed with the creativity, passion and size of the Nokia developer community, and we will do all we can to bring that energy to Windows Phone"01:19
MohammadAGyea01:20
BCMM_javispedro: insult to injury and all that...01:20
MohammadAGjavispedro, $100kk won't get me on WP701:20
MohammadAGdouble ks was not a mistake01:20
javispedrothat was basically the welcome message =)01:20
BCMM_that's an amazingly stupid thing to say...01:20
lardmanMohammadAG: well for $101kk I'd probably consider it01:20
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_trineMohammadAG, are you retiring at an early age then01:20
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MohammadAGlardman, nah01:21
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: correct would be to use M01:21
lardmanwon't get out of bed for....01:21
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lardmanles than $102kk01:21
lardman+s01:21
jacekowskiuse correct suffixes01:21
jacekowskiM01:21
MohammadAG100kkk, maybe01:21
jacekowskinot double k01:21
jacekowskiG not tripple k01:21
javispedroooh, windows phone emlator, let's try this thing01:22
lardmank^2 ?01:22
MohammadAGkkk sounds cooler01:22
jacekowskihave you heard about klu klux klan01:22
lofty306*Crash*01:22
jacekowskiku kux klan*01:22
jacekowskiklux*01:22
_trineobviously not :)01:22
_trineMohammadAG, they would burn you on the cross01:23
lardmanI thought it was Klu?01:23
javispedrowell wp7 looks like a black and white iphone.01:23
MohammadAGjavispedro, it even emulates BSODs!01:23
kerioMohammadAG: hold on, why do you study religion?01:23
MohammadAGkerio, ask my school01:23
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keriowhy do you go to a school where you study religion?01:24
_trineindoctrination01:24
MohammadAGkerio, ask my government01:24
_trineis the simple answer01:24
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MohammadAGnah, all school do it01:24
MohammadAGThis school is run by christians too01:25
MohammadAGand I take islamic religion01:25
kerioMohammadAG: aren't you in nyc?01:25
MohammadAGLOL01:25
MohammadAGI wish01:25
keriothen your hostname is lying01:25
kerioor you're using a bouncer01:26
derfReligion is a significant factor in human relations and has been for centuries. Why _wouldn't_ you study it?01:26
kerioa bouncer on verizon fios :Q___01:26
Per_n900Studying religion is actually pretty good, it enables one to understand where things went horribly wrong in the world.01:26
_trinebecause its become politicised01:26
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keriostudying *religions* would be01:26
jacekowskisingle religion by a priest or whatever is pointless01:27
jacekowskibecause it's biased01:27
MohammadAGkerio, what hostmask :P01:27
keriostudying a single religion is stupid01:27
jacekowskithat there is only one true god and there is a salvation01:27
kerioMohammadAG: oh, it looked like pool-108-14-87-241.nycmny.fios.verizon.net before01:27
keriomaybe i'm wrong01:27
_trineactually we are all a hologram :)01:27
MohammadAGkerio, I wasn't id'd, thanks for pasting the IP lol01:28
kerioyw01:28
jacekowski00:26 -!- MohammadAG [~MohammadA@pool-108-14-87-241.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host]01:28
Per_n900Religion as a phenomenon is what I meant.01:28
* javispedro kinda likes the wp7 browser01:28
kerioPer_n900: isn't mass hysteria best studied in med school?01:28
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* MohammadAG performs an exorcism on javispedro 01:28
jacekowskithat's a good question01:29
MohammadAGjavispedro, what do you like again?01:29
_trinemaybe we could convert this channel now its obsolete to religious chat #maegod01:29
jacekowskiMohammadAG: is there a thing like a devil or something in islam?01:29
javispedroit seems to be doing some kind of font resizing01:29
MohammadAGyeah01:29
Per_n900kerio, maybe.01:29
* SpeedEvil learned the answer to that on Radio 4.01:29
* MohammadAG murders javispedro - we lost this one :(01:29
SpeedEvilIt's George Bush.01:30
kerioMohammadAG: hey font resizing is cool01:30
kerioit's what my ipod touch does01:30
kerioscrewing up with the layout of most websites01:30
jacekowskianyways01:30
jacekowskigood night01:30
SpeedEvilNight!01:30
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javispedrounfortunately, you cannot disable this font resizing at all.01:31
_trinethis channel requires a good strong dose of prozac after the bad news01:31
javispedroeven though it has a quite large options page including user agent01:31
kwtmMohammadAG: On the subject of Nokia's betrayal, we are grateful to people like you for the community updates to Maemo.  Thx.01:31
kerioi <3 microB ^_^01:31
lofty306bad news link?01:31
BCMM_what kwtm said!01:31
rzrcheap n900 : http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B002ZB8L4O/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d2_i2?pf_rd_m=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1BNDQG5TCVRFBSAD6XJ6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375513&pf_rd_i=40532001:32
javispedrotbh I miss a "distort layout resize fonts" tool on MicroB (and yes I know about Ctrl+Shift+I)01:32
pupnik_isn't maemo just really freakin good already?01:32
kerioMohammadAG: so are you an atheist or you just don't care about the one true deity that created this universe just for you?01:32
* javispedro types slashdot.org and wp7 suggests slashdot.org.org . I wonder if its some kind of inside joke.01:33
lardmanwould that not be agnostic?01:33
pupnik_the interesting question is "why did android become popular and not maemo"01:33
pupnik_i'd like to see someone explain the factors that led to this01:33
lardmanpupnik: because the email client worked?01:33
keriolardman: gnosticism != theism01:33
BCMM_lardman: an agnostic doesn't know if there is a god or not - thinking there is one but not caring is different01:33
SpeedEvilAndroid had a large number of devices by the time that maemo 5 hit01:33
_trineis android more open source01:33
javispedrook, slashdot is completely unreadable on this thing. microb wins.01:33
kerio_trine: a lot less01:33
pupnik_SpeedEvil: i think that's a big part of it01:33
keriojavispedro: yay01:33
pupnik_but how did android get so much mindshare?01:34
MohammadAGkwtm, yw :)01:34
BCMM_pupnik_: Google.01:34
pupnik_analysis of chaotic / feedback cycles isn't easy01:34
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_trineI bought 2 N900's and now I am really disappointed01:34
BCMM_pupnik_: Google has money, and people like them01:34
Per_n900pupnik_: google pays manufacturers to use it, or so I have heard atleast. That could be one reason.01:34
MohammadAGkerio, no, I just got bored of the subject at school01:34
MohammadAGkerio, same freaking stuff, for 12 years01:34
keriolardman: gnosticism = knowing about the existance or non-existance of a deity01:34
lardmanBCMM: but atheism is believing there is no God I thought01:34
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BCMM_lardman: yes.01:34
kerioMohammadAG: i gave you a question with two choices and you answered "no"01:35
lardmanso the question above can't really use or as a conjunction01:35
kerio:|01:35
pupnik_BCMM_: nokia has / had a lot of money too01:35
javispedro"Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Express for Windows Phone For Evaluation Purposes Only" -- on the title bar.01:35
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javispedro"there, free development tools!".01:35
javispedrothank you Nokia!01:35
pupnik_BCMM_: part of the problem is the world's focus on the USA..01:35
_trineyou dont have to worry about religion theres an APP now to receive forgiveness for your sins01:35
BCMM_lardman: theism: believing in a god. atheism: not believing in a god. agnosticism: undecided between the other two :)01:35
rzrjavispedro: run it through wine and tell us01:35
_trine:)))01:35
lardmananyway, brain is frazzled after staring at Tab screen for too long01:35
kerioBCMM_: nope01:36
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keriognosticism != theism01:36
BCMM_kerio: the :) was supposed to indicate knowing i'm wrong01:36
kwtmpupnik_: Why did android become popular?  Marketing machine that is Google!01:36
kerioone is about knowledge and the other is about belief01:36
kerioBCMM_: you needed more )s01:36
MohammadAGkerio, I'm hardcore01:36
lofty306pupnik_, advertising01:36
rzrBCMM: what is the term for those who dont give a f about it01:36
kwtmpupnik_: Do you see Nokia pimping Maemo anywhere?  <sigh>  Except maybe two Youtube videos...01:36
lardmannight all01:36
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pupnik_kwtm: i agree there was a colossal marketing failure and lack of belief in linux01:37
BCMM_yeah, maemo made very little noise, even without open-source focused media01:37
keriolardman: i meant "are you disinterested in the study of religion because you don't believe in it or just out of boredom for the subject?"01:37
_trineI am changing what I am interested in,, now I am looking into number crunching with a video card and pyrit01:37
kwtm_trine: the N900's are still valuable, partly because they can withstand obsolescence ... It will still be running Linux, python/bash scripts, etc.01:37
BCMM_^within, rather01:37
keriokwtm: if you install bash :|01:37
kwtmkerio: well, now's the time to install everything before those Maemo repositories disappear!01:38
_trinekwtm, yeah it might make a good central heating controller01:38
keriokwtm: nah, MohammadAG's got our back apparently01:38
rzrkwtm: as long as u have spare batteries too01:38
kerio_trine: nah, that'll be a sheevaplug01:38
MohammadAGkerio, technically, my repo lives on maemo.org01:38
kwtmkerio: You never know.  No disrespect for MohammedAG, of course, but sometimes higher-ups make decisions suddenly and unexpectedly.01:39
MohammadAGjacekowski has a mirror though01:39
lofty306they killing it?01:39
kerioMohammadAG: YOU GOT OUR BACK LALALALALA01:39
MohammadAGthey won't kill it01:39
kwtmrzr: True; now might be the time to eBay a spare or two.  I did get a Universal Battery Charger just because I'm so paranoid.01:39
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lofty306just wont dev it anymoore?01:39
MohammadAGif they kill it, they'll lose Elop01:39
merlin1991if they kill the repo, I'll finally have a use for my debian server :D01:39
* MohammadAG laughs diabolically01:39
rzrkwtm: do u still think that n900 will remain the only device for uning gnu tools , ssh etc for upcoming years ?01:39
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kerioi never uned ssh01:40
kwtmpupnik_: Not sure if world focus on USA is the problem.  I take it you're referring to how, in the USA, Android and iPhones are big and Nokia is tiny.  THere was an article on that ... mentioned on slashdot.  Searching now.01:40
MohammadAGanwyay, think I have to sleep now01:41
MohammadAGnight01:41
_trinegnight01:41
MohammadAGwill be back in 4 hours :/01:41
kwtmrzr: I fear that there will be that strong possibility.  Samsung is rumoured to bring out a Linux phone, but then Nokia was also rumoured to bring out this powerful N9 successor to the N900, and look what happened.01:41
rzrkwtm: i am wondering how much does n900 should worth now and if it a good invesment for GNU/linux geeks01:41
derfI une ssh all the time. You're missing out.01:41
BCMM_ssh is like magic01:41
rzrkwtm: yes SLP i know ,but it lacks an open community01:41
kwtmderf: Don't we all use ssh?  Who doesn't here?  Who are you talking to01:41
derfkerio.01:42
rzrkwtm: so i fear limo is not hackers users01:42
kwtmrzr: Yeah, but then Meego-on-N900 also lacks a big community, which is why I'm glad Maemo's around (and has the N770/N800 community to draw on)01:42
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MohammadAGi'm not leaving for some time01:42
_trineanyway I've gone back to my trustly 6310i01:42
BCMM_i can't remember the last time i used mass-storage mode, because sftp://user@n900/ is just so easy01:42
rzri am happy that maemo wasnt closed when meego was announced01:43
BCMM_(the n900 has a static wlan IP and an entry in /etc/hosts)01:43
kwtmkerio: Seriously?  No ssh?  You gotta try it sometime!  Tunnel X over ssh ...01:43
rzrkwtm: about about getting n900 today is it a mistake ?01:43
pupnik_kwtm: they're buying ipads with chinese money01:43
kwtmrzr: I would get it at a discount.  I myself find it useful for this purpose:01:43
_trineit certainly would be a big mistake01:43
rzr_trine: point out the alternatives ?01:44
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: jebba had a mirror :-P01:44
rzr_trine: i have a freerunner already01:44
keriokwtm: 'twas a joke based on your misspelling01:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, freeee.org, but it's dead :(01:44
pupnik_americants are buying nokia stock with fake money01:44
kwtmrzr: Mainly for editing files: vim; also viewing PDF's.  I guess most people use the web, too, although I don't that much.  So these are the main reason, "raisons d'etre".  And then there01:44
MohammadAGor was it freeeee?01:44
pupnik_and destroying the company01:44
derfTechnically rzr's misspelling.01:44
_trinerzr, its not a question of is there an alternative because the answer sometimes is there is none01:44
DocScrutinizernah it's moego.org01:44
MohammadAGmy nickname's moe :p01:45
kwtmkerio: Oh, you mean "uned" instead of "used".  That was rzr's misspelling, not mine.01:45
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kerioer, yeah01:45
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DocScrutinizerwell and his full name was Jeff Moe afaik01:46
kwtmrzr: And then there's the phone and internet capability, which are mainly to support the main activities (e.g now you can transfer files to your home server) etc.01:46
rzrdid i ?01:46
rzractually i have a n810 and a freerunner i never use01:46
kwtmrzr: You said something about "uning" ssh, so kerio said he's never "uned" ssh before.01:46
_trinemy 6310i is a great phone 2 weeks between each battery charge01:46
kerioJeff "Go" Moe01:46
kwtmrzr: In that case, you may not have as great an additional benefit getting N900.  Seriously, the phone interface is clumsy and sucks.01:46
rzruning gnu tools01:46
rzrtrue01:46
MohammadAGanyway, night01:47
_trineMohammadAG, go to bed01:47
kwtmrzr: Basically, I hate my N900 because it sucks, but because there's nothing else like it, I have no choice and I have to use it.01:47
kwtmrzr: I hear the N810 has a much better keyboard (4 rows ... drool...)01:47
pupnik_kwtm: it's not better, the n810 pressure point is worse01:47
rzrn810 size is good01:47
keriothe n900 sucks, but everything else sucks much much more01:47
kwtmpupnik_: Oh, really?  Okay.01:48
rzrno need to be smaller01:48
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jocDeciding on a new phone and thinking about an older n900?? Are there other phones that will supoort maemo at this time or on the horizon?01:48
pupnik_a 4-row n900 would be better01:48
kwtmkerio: Yeah, you could say that.  It's just that, with a little effort, they could have made things SO much better!01:48
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_trineyou can turn an N900 into a torch so you can put the key in your door,,  what do you want01:48
_trine:P01:48
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rzrbrowsing the web on n810 is a tricky mission01:48
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kwtmjoc: Well, I think the N900 will take a long time to become obsolete because it's so powerful.01:48
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: that'S clearly a question of personal preference01:48
pupnik_n900 had the best web browsing on the planet when it was released01:49
kwtmkerio: I dial the phone with vim now because I can't phoning with the actual built-in "Phone" app.01:49
DocScrutinizer(pressure point)01:49
pupnik_DocScrutinizer: what would be a drawback to a 4-row kbd01:49
pupnik_DocScrutinizer: oh ok01:49
rzrkwtm: well if only we can flash customrom w/ all drivers01:49
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derfDocScrutinizer: No. The N810's keyboard is objectively terrible in this regard.01:49
pupnik_i agree with derf01:49
jocI would have to agree after my research today ;). Very cool. I did notice something about bluetooth keyboard support having issue. Is this the case?01:49
pupnik_it's like poking a puppy in the eye01:49
DocScrutinizerderf: no, I still like my N810 as much as my N90001:50
DocScrutinizerwrt kbd01:50
pupnik_DocScrutinizer: you're wrong - the pressure feedback is terrible01:50
kwtmI'm just waiting for my slide-out keyboard to break mechanically from all the sliding in and out.  The onscreen keyboard is impractical.01:50
DocScrutinizerso what?01:50
derfThe N900 was not a _big_ improvement. But it was an improvement.01:50
rzrwell i get used to01:50
rzrit's still better than any on screen kb01:50
DocScrutinizerif it's ok for me, what can you possibly do about it?01:50
pupnik_it's not ok for me01:50
pupnik_i would have RETURNED the device01:50
kwtmderf: For me, the improvement in the N900 is that I can use a single SIM card to make phone calls and to get on the Internet.01:51
rzrremove your gloves01:51
derfI was just talking about the keyboard.01:51
kwtmI think the resistive touchscreen is *too* sensitive on my N900 and needs a software modification to make it more usable.01:51
derfThe N900 is a huge improvement in many other regards.01:51
DocScrutinizerwhat's a mega pita on N810 is the key MAPPING01:51
DocScrutinizeresp of "blue" level01:51
rzrDocScrutinizer: easy to fix01:51
DocScrutinizeryeah, but hard to learn by heart :-P01:52
kwtmIn particular, when you touch the high-rez screen with a finger that touches more than one pixel at a time, the N900 thinks you're tracing a tiny wiggly line.01:52
rzri did01:52
lcukkwtm, that is normal and has occured from dawn of time01:52
kwtmThey should make it so that when that tiny line (the N900 thinks) I am tracing is entirely contained within the area of a button, it should be regarded as a button press, not a drag.01:52
lcukcentre of pressure point and it moves around01:53
jocWhat are the odds of the e7's drivers being realeased and maemo working there or on the n8 - not that symbian is gone with the nokia/m$ merger ?01:53
kwtmlcuk: It certainly has occurred from the dawn of time.  I would say it has room for improvement.01:53
jocnow/not01:53
rzrso getting a n900  to replace a n800 and use it as main phone does not worth it ?01:53
_trinehow many people on this channel are suffering for paranoid depression since the announcement ?01:53
lcukrzr, n900 is lightyears ahead of n80001:53
* rzr _o/01:53
* joc is01:53
kwtmlcuk: Okay, look here, I'm not going to debate what's "right" or what's "abnormal", ok?  I'm just saying that under certain circumstances it would be easier to know that the user does not intend to trace, and put in a software patch for it.01:54
rzrlcuk: well it looks that both as stuck in the past01:54
jocDoes anyone want to sell me a n900? :)01:54
lcukrzr, not really I also adore my 10" inch slate01:54
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rzr_trine: actually last time i fell similar is when amiga died01:54
lcukI have said for years I wanted one ;)01:54
kwtmrzr: Depends what you wanht of the phone.  My N900 has suffered poor response time (e.g. 2-3 seconds to respond to button presses, sometimes causing me to miss calls).01:54
_trinerzr, \\o/01:55
rzrbut there is natami now01:55
rzrso expect some nit running on fpga in 10 years01:55
rzractually i did not get a n900 before because i wanted to get that n9 or any meego phone01:56
rzrnow i regreat i should have jump in the maemo5 train and save it from elopcalypse01:57
kwtmrzr: If you're holding out for a later phone, might want to get a N900 while there is still a manufacturer's warranty.01:57
lcukkwtm, even with a wiggle in press (very wiggle infact, moving finger aorund once button is pressed before release) once I release finger it works01:57
lcukwhich buttons don't operate like that for you?01:57
jocI'm assuming it could be possible for maemo and the e7 to be a couple if the drivers were realeased, by say, a disgruntled employee?01:57
javispedroha ha, ha.01:58
kwtmlcuk: None of the buttons work like that for me.  On investigation (by tapping on PenSketch, for example), I see that I'm tracing curlicues, which I presume is the cause.  Otherwise, the buttons just simply don't respond half the time.01:58
kwtmBy the way, lcuk, were you the one who wrote the backup system for the N900?  I seem to recall something about that.  You know, the app for backing up contacts and screen config and all that.01:59
lcukI just opened calculator01:59
lcukpressed "1"01:59
lcukpressed (but not released) +, rolled finger all the way to bottom of "+" then released01:59
lcukthen pressed 201:59
lcukit gave nice answer of 302:00
kwtmlcuk: I'm very happy that your N900 works for you.  Unfortunately, unless you are willing to swap devices with me, mine doesn't work that way in: phone, contacts, and most of the other apps that I use.02:00
kwtmlcuk: Okay, I just opened phone.02:00
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jocAre there phones on the horizon that maemo will be intended for or do I need to buy a beagleboad? :)02:00
lcukkwtm, I am merely trying to see your problem since it is curious yours does that02:01
kwtmI just tapped 123456789.  The screen says: 23467902:01
timelessjoc: that isn't really how things work02:01
timelessi have no idea what components are in the e702:01
timelessbut i'd imagine you're talking about a half dozen to a dozen that'd need help02:01
kwtmI'm sure it's very curious to you, lcuk.  You also didn't believe me when I said my phone kept locking up during the bootup process, and I must have installed something from extras-devel or something...02:02
kwtmSo it might just be that my model is somehow different from yours.02:02
kwtmI don't know.  But I have come to accept that taps on fingers don't work half the time..  I presume it's the "wiggle" thing, but maybe it's just  --well, I dunno, the way the resistive screen is.02:02
kwtmI had the same problem on my Treo 650, my TRGpro, HandEra, and PalmIII, so I've learned to live with it.02:03
joctimeless: Time will tell. I find it so interesting that Nokia releases three symbian phones and then announces that merger. Seems like a huge pr faux pas.?02:03
SpeedEvilResistive screen should always work, unless you tap very, very lightly - under maybe 10g02:03
SpeedEvilI measured it once, but I forgot02:03
timelessjoc: you've seen nokia do good pr?02:03
timelessjoc: people are paid to do tasks02:04
kwtmSpeedEvil: It's not that it doesn't work; it's that (at least in the Palm models) it develops these spurious strokes, but it takes about 9 months to 1 year to develop it.02:04
timelessand their bonus structure is based on accomplishing the tasks they agreed to accomplish roughly when they indicated they would do so02:04
SpeedEvilkwtm: Do you play lots of games?02:04
kwtmSpeedEvil: So, after a while, when you just press on a point on the screen, the screen thinks you actuall made a vertical stroke that ends at your point.02:04
timelessif you were ordered on jan 1 to do something by mar 102:04
timelessand you had it ready on feb 102:04
timelesswould you just sort of sit on it forever?02:05
kwtmSpeedEvil: Almost never.  All my games are sudoku like.  The one action game I played, for maybe 10 times before realizing I suck at action games, used the keyboard for controls.02:05
timelessif someone had a secret that they might announce on valentines day, which might cause your bonus structure to go away02:05
timelesswould you still sit on it, just on the off chance that it could make you get a worse bonus?02:05
jocTimeless: Well, I suppose it is a good way to downsize.02:05
timelessa product is the product of many many many commitments02:05
timelessa phone may be promised to operators02:06
timelessand they may have purchase orders for them02:06
timelessthey may have actually been *produced*02:06
timelessin which case you've paid for the parts, assembly, packaging, and storage02:06
timelessthe only way you can get anything back is by selling them02:06
timelessbut in this case, the announcements / products came before a decision to change direction02:07
SpeedEvilThough they may not be in a state where their sale will reflect positively on your company.02:07
timelessso it isn't like anyone actually had any reason not to do what they were paid to do02:07
timelessSpeedEvil: nothing has been of late :)02:07
kwtmBtw, I still have this VERY curious problem where, most of the time I have no trouble mapping keys, but two keys are mapped to ]{  --if I press Shift-Fn J or Shift-Fn K, then two characters are typed.  No idea why.  The key map file looks normal to me (Shift-Fn J is ] and Shift-Fn K is { )02:07
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SpeedEviltimeless: Well - true. :)02:08
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jocAre there phones on the horizon for maemo or are we waiting? Thanks.02:09
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timelessthe maemo organization ceased to exist a while ago02:09
timelessso no, you aren't waiting for any maemo branded products02:09
jocand meego?02:09
timelessthat was the replacement org name02:09
timelessthe last public memo i read in the press seemed to indicate that there would be one "meego related product" coming from "nokia" "this year"02:10
timelessi'm not sure if i got the terminology on that right, so please don't quote mme02:10
timelesss/mme/me/02:10
jocSo, the organziation and the linux foundation put an end to it? It's gone? What are you guys doing here? :)02:10
infobottimeless meant: i'm not sure if i got the terminology on that right, so please don't quote me02:10
timelessdo feel free to google for it or check the press releases02:10
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_trineis there going to be any counselling on this channel on how to deal with suicides02:10
_trine:P02:11
timelessLF has nothing to do w/ Maemo02:11
GAN900Watch, Nokia is going to start "fixing" warrantied N900s by replacing them with WP7 phones.02:11
timelessand as for meego, the entity within nokia is managed by nokia, not by LF02:11
_trineto look on the brighter side we can now all legitimately buy iphones02:11
joctimeless; apparently meego is a part of the linux foundation, their logo is at the bottom of the meego page ?02:12
timelessGAN900: i still remember an AST386 being replaced by an AST486 when some hardware component failed under warranty02:12
* timeless was quite happy w/ that02:12
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timelessmy complaint at the time was that we didn't get a free CRT upgrade :)02:12
timelesssilly non integrated / interchangable detachable components02:12
jocSo, no one is going to pick up the pieces and continue an opensource mobile OS?02:13
timelessjoc: err02:13
timelessnokia contributed some resources to a MeeGo project02:13
timelessmost of which is being managed by Intel02:13
timelesswith contributions from various other vendors02:13
timelessand there's also LiMo (?)02:13
timelessso there are a couple of linux phone platforms available02:14
timelessand presumably hardware vendors which will use them02:14
SpeedEvilIsn't LiMo mostly focussed on the fundamental non-UI side?02:14
timelessAava (?)02:14
timelessSpeedEvil: rasterman was here earlier noting his employer was working on a ui for something02:14
SpeedEvilAh.02:15
kwtmtimeless: And there was also OpenMoko etc., but without (strong, hopefully) support from a big company like Google/Nokia/IBM/Sun, just the fact that it's Linux by itself doesn't make it sustainable.02:15
timelesssun doesn't exist02:15
SpeedEviltimeless: It's probably a working tricorder. He always seems to have the best hardware.02:15
timelessheh02:15
nox-haha02:15
timelesskwtm: but yeah, openmoko never went anywhere useful02:15
timelessthe n900 volume was actually very impressive for no advertising02:16
Mouseyopenmoko senior devs left the project to work on webos02:16
SpeedEviltimeless: I don't suppose you can reveal any hints as to that volume?02:16
SpeedEvilMousey: Before that, the managment was comprehensively screwing up.02:16
timelessi can't find any useful google hits, no :(02:16
* Mousey thinks . o ( darnit! )02:17
timelessit's worth remembering that there was more demand than supply initially02:17
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krayonI was running on my Freerunner for a while before I got my N900.  It ... works but it's the last 10% that's missing last I tried.  Nokia got a lot closer to "DONE" IMHO.02:18
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jocWell, I suppose this is evidece that the n900 will live on forever, so I'll buy one. I'm also not going to give up hope that some form of hardware will run the maemo source.02:18
timelessmy guess is that you could get vaguely usable numbers from maemo.org update pings02:18
Mouseyi miss my n81002:18
timelessif you tried to datamine02:18
SpeedEvilOpenmoko hardware still has active development on.02:18
Mouseywhy on gods green earth did it stop being made! =(02:18
SpeedEviltimeless: I tried to do that.02:18
timelessSpeedEvil: how;d it go?02:18
SpeedEviltimeless: It seemed to indicate fairly low numbers IIRC - ~50K for fmms, for example.02:19
kwtmtimeless: Yeah, I heard they didn't know how to manage the open community, thought they could just publish specs and sit back and let the software pour in...02:19
* SpeedEvil checks logs.02:19
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jocspeedevil: thanks02:19
timelessSpeedEvil: sorry, 50k for fmms? an item which the majority of users wouldn't want/need/seek?02:20
SpeedEviltimeless: yes02:20
_trineheres what an N900 is worth now :- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-/260736457849?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item3cb51a9c7902:20
SpeedEvil_trine: You're an ass-hat02:21
_trinenow now02:21
timelessfwiw, http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/11601_N900_shipment_numbers-100000_i.php seems like the most positive item i've found02:21
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SpeedEvil_trine: Go and look at completed sales. >220 quid for ones in good condition.02:21
* jonwil has posted a list of the 7 or so "lets open this" requests that still make sense http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relavent02:22
jocFrom my research ~290 USD used ~$350 new from amazon.02:22
_trinehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-/180626242136?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item2a0e29ba5802:22
SpeedEvilhttp://completed.shop.ebay.co.uk/Mobile-Smart-Phones-/171954/i.html?rt=nc&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=n900&_catref=1&_dmpt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283&_rdc=102:22
jonwilAll the other "open this" requests were solved somehow, had no concrete use case or were blocked for legitimate reasons (e.g. BME)02:22
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_trinehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N900-MOBILE-PHONE-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-UNLOCKED-/260736699955?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item3cb51e4e3302:23
_trineno one wants one any more02:24
jocIs the maemo source code not available? I figure I should find it and sort it away with my symbian source.02:24
krayon_trine: It's not over till the auction ends.  You should be checking completed.  They are still going for ~$300 US depending on condition etc02:25
joc80% opensrouce..? I still think somone needs to pick up the pieces and continue with development.02:25
SpeedEviljoc: Please do!02:26
SpeedEviljoc: The closed source bits are unfortunately cleverly designed.02:26
_trinekrayon, not so there is one at least that is buy now 18002:26
krayon_trine: Link, I'll buy it now :D02:27
_trinekrayon, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-/180626242136?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item2a0e29ba5802:27
jocSpeedEvil: it appears so, "not funcational without the 20% which is closed", but the people of #maemo are going to let it die? Guys, wtf? At least post it on github for bored developers to tinker with.. eh?02:28
jocIt someone can point me in the direction of the source I'll post it right now.02:28
krayon_trine: Um, that's 180 POUNDS, I said $300 US (I'm in AU but most people understand US$ so I used it as the "common" currency)02:28
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joconce it becomes 100% open the sucide rate might go down.. ;-)02:29
_trinekrayon, I didnt know I was speaking to an ozy02:29
krayon_trine: :P regardless, I did say "~$300 US" and you said "not so"02:30
_trinekrayon, and it isnt02:30
SpeedEviljoc: No, they're not letting it die.02:30
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SpeedEviljoc: My point is that the closed source bits are _exactly_ the design you would pick if you wanted to answer the question:02:31
jocLooks like this is the most recent http://tinyurl.com/y7y7pd9. Is there anything further along elsewhere?02:31
_trinekrayon, 300.00 USD = 185.863 GBP02:32
jocspeedevil: Well, good to hear that it's not going to die.02:33
SpeedEviljoc: The question 'how can we make it so that developers can iwrite programs for it, but that no other mobile maker can make use of it, or easily the programs that are developed'02:33
SpeedEvilThe answer to this is a poorly documented stack of daemons, with multiple interconnections in unclear ways.02:33
SpeedEvilSo you can't simply replace one, you need to replace them all.02:33
SpeedEvilThis - coincidentally...02:34
krayon_trine: That's not much under (FWIW though, that's one of the cheapest I've seen in the last month)02:34
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_trinekrayon, nearly's dont count :p02:35
_trineanyway I have 2 N900's so I am hoping it does carry on02:36
jocspeedevil: Sounds like something a group of developers need to refactor.02:36
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* joc just registered on maemo.gitorious.org02:36
SpeedEviljoc: Refactoring is _hard_02:37
SpeedEviljoc: As you need to rip out essentially undocumented stuff, that talks to other undocumented stuff in undocumented ways.02:37
jocSpeedevil: is maemo not the best opensource tablet/phone os currently?02:38
jonwilyeah the connectivity middleware is the biggest problem with maemo02:38
_trinekrayon, I found another http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Phone-internet-tablet-GPS-/180625292184?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item2a0e1b3b9802:38
SpeedEviljoc: It's rpactically the only one02:38
_trineis this the start of the rush to sell02:39
SpeedEvil_trine: you say that like it's a bad thing.02:39
krayon_trine: I hope so ... I'll be doing what I did with the Treo680 and buying enough to last until something better comes out (if ever)02:39
jocSo, if we give up development we all will be using ios, android or windows. I'm in favor of not giving up. There wre checkin's to the repository 7 hour ago.02:39
SpeedEvil_trine: There are a _large_ number of young, and poor hackers, who cannot easily buy a new, expensive phone.02:39
_trineSpeedEvil, I am just reporting what I see02:40
SpeedEvil_trine: Development often gets significantly more contributors (though others drop off of course) when prices fall.02:40
_trineSpeedEvil, I hope so02:40
* _trine keeps his fingers and legs crossed02:41
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_trinehowever I am not optimistic02:42
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_trinesince the announcement by Nokia the N900 is now obsolete and thats a fact02:44
pupnik_it just got more interesting than ever02:45
pupnik_and more valuable02:45
rzrbah you should be happy , the future of freesoftware is cygwin on wp7 !02:46
DocScrutinizerand it's just as much fun as has been last week02:46
DocScrutinizerand I might get a third one, when they actually get that cheap now02:46
TrappI just got my first N900 yesterday02:47
pupnik_congrats Trapp02:47
DocScrutinizerenjoy02:47
pupnik_which style keyboard?02:47
_trineactually I feel feel quite upset at what has happened and I'm sure that goes for a lot of people here02:47
Trappthanks, I love it so far02:47
rzrI wish i can one antographied by mr elop02:47
rzr+get02:47
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pupnik_do any of you knwo WHO in nokia killed maemo?02:48
pupnik_that wasn't Elop02:48
pupnik_that was some other buttmunchers02:48
jocThis like this is the offical repo: http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch. Cheers!02:48
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Sc0rpiuswho02:48
SpeedEvilWhoever agreed the merger with moblin.02:48
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* DocScrutinizer wonders idly what's been wrong now with mxr.maemo.org, for joc03:03
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Perhaps Elop pulled the plug? :(03:03
DocScrutinizernah03:03
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DocScrutinizerhttp://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/ doesn't look like pulled plug03:04
pupnik_hw did maemo get dumped03:04
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chxDocScrutinizer: http://mxr.maemo.org/harmattan/source/ this is the problem :p03:06
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DocScrutinizermeh03:07
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DocScrutinizerFor all I know so far, I really, honestly hope harmattan never gets published. Neither source nor any PR1.4 meego flavoured or whatever03:08
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BCMM_DocScrutinizer: why's that?03:10
DocScrutinizerharmattan-HE aiui is targeted to accomplish some sorta "compatibility" to meego, both in GUI and some system parts (Qt et al). So for N900 it's a 0.1 version for a huge part of user experience, and also for developers. The compatibility is towards a deadend meego devices branch, the harmattan pseudo-meego for sure will be full of bugs and no chance to ever get mature like maemo proper is now. Plus I don't like meego UI for all I've seen so03:15
DocScrutinizerfar03:15
BCMM_ah, i see03:16
lofty306i havent deciided on the meego yet  just put it on me netbook03:18
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DocScrutinizerso in my opinion it's a first class funeral for maemo, all users updating to a 'new' OS in betastage, then Nokia letting down and all the developers won't care about fremantle anymore, will get pissed with harmattan, and with a meego that never comes to a mature state03:18
lofty306but good point on the dead end  bit DocScrutinizer5103:19
lofty306*-5103:19
villagerI'd think things like ofono code (or camera/gps/whatever sources) might be nice though, if there was some of that in harmattan03:19
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DocScrutinizeronly IF they'd work better or at least as good as maemo stuff does now03:20
BCMM_DocScrutinizer: yeah, wouldn't it provide useful sources for a Free maemo-derivative? people wouldn't have to actually use it03:20
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: I don't see that. the closed things will stay closed, the new things will be full of bugs and poorly integrated with the old heritage, and you can't randomly swap subsystems between maemo and harmattan03:22
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BCMM_DocScrutinizer: so what do you think the outlook is like for an open OS on the n900?03:25
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DocScrutinizerit will arrive when nobody cares about it anymore03:26
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HtheBGuys03:44
HtheBanyone awake? :)03:44
HtheB:( ok no one03:47
HtheBlol03:47
befordhi03:49
* jonwil is here03:50
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jonwilIt should be possible to find out all the things that talk to CSD and its plugins over dbus and from there figure out how hard it is to replace CSD with ofono and which other bits would need replacement. Would also need to trace anything thats using the various libraries like libsms that isnt csd and its plugins.03:56
HtheBbeford:03:56
HtheBhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=947626#post94762603:56
HtheBjonwil, you to03:56
HtheBo03:56
HtheB:p03:56
HtheBcheck out03:56
befordhehe03:58
HtheBxD03:58
rm_worklol got to 300 without missing any and got bored :P04:00
rm_workalso my wrist hurts04:01
HtheBxD04:02
HtheBrm_work: it's good for the stress04:02
HtheBto keep destroying those WP7's04:02
HtheB:p04:02
rm_worklol04:02
HtheBI will update the game when I got time to make it less boring though04:03
HtheBlike "level up"04:03
HtheBspeed up04:03
HtheBmusic04:03
HtheBetc :P04:03
HtheBoh and there is always a thanks button guys :p04:03
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HtheBI'm off04:19
HtheBnite all :)04:19
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BCMM_good grief, that's an over-the-top Flashsite...04:25
BCMM_(i mean, the rest of that site)04:25
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pupnik_asd06:00
psycho_oreosdsa06:00
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pupnik_hi psycho_oreos06:01
pupnik_what's new06:01
psycho_oreospupnik_, nothing new on me n900 front, you?06:01
pupnik_tired06:02
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pupnik_however i have some juice + cola + water and that tastes wonderful06:02
psycho_oreoslol that might keep you buzzing for a bit06:02
psycho_oreostill the sugar wears out :)06:02
pupnik_mhm06:03
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psycho_oreosI still can't get over the fact they've killed n906:04
psycho_oreosmaybe I might just buy another n900, so I have two to play with06:05
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pupniktoo bad the german ones here don't have 4 arrow keys06:07
pupnika replacement keymat is only like 20 euro06:07
psycho_oreosis the keymat easy to replace?06:08
pupnikwell. i don't know06:08
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psycho_oreosand why not 4 arrows? which key is it missing? lol06:08
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pupniktwo of the arrows are on function keys06:08
pupnikbecause the german alphabet has some additional characters06:08
psycho_oreosI may need to replace mine sometime soon. My backspace key is the worst struck06:09
psycho_oreosyeah omleaut iirc06:09
psycho_oreosomlaut*06:09
pupnikhave you worn through yours?06:09
pupniki have an early version that got worn-through fast06:10
pupnikand the speakers blew out06:10
psycho_oreosfor the backspace, yeah its about 1/4 chunk missing06:10
psycho_oreosouch06:10
psycho_oreoshow did the speakers blew out?06:10
pupniki bypassed the speaker protection06:10
pupnikshould have implemented that filter in the mp3 player06:11
psycho_oreosahh lol06:11
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pupniki had mp3 playback down to using like 4% cpu or so06:11
pupnikdown from 15%06:11
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psycho_oreoslower quality?06:12
psycho_oreoss/quality/bitrate/06:12
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: lower bitrate?06:12
pupnikno06:12
psycho_oreoso.O06:13
psycho_oreosdifferent codecs? heh06:13
pupnikno. bypassing pulseaudio06:14
pupnikand using mplayer06:14
psycho_oreosahh06:14
psycho_oreosmplayer + alsa I presume?06:15
pupnikyes06:16
pupnikmplayer -quiet (so it doesn't spit out text constantly)06:16
pupnikand mp3 decoding can do multi-band eq for 'free' cpu wise06:16
pupnikso i should have just dropped low frequences06:17
pupnikthere are also arm-specific players06:18
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pupnikpsycho_oreos: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36555&highlight=pulse+cpu06:24
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sevardDoes anyone know if theres a Qvernote for the n810?06:29
pupnikis there one for n900?06:35
sevardqvernote :)06:36
pupnikBuddy: [Consoling Laura about missing husband] Maybe Rob got drunk?06:36
pupnikLaura: Oh you know Rob never gets drunk.06:36
pupnikBuddy: Well maybe tonight he made it?06:36
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random-n900hey all07:09
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pupnikmoo07:13
ds3baaah07:13
pupnikfour legs good!  two legs baaaad!07:14
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random-n900n900 has no legs :o07:17
random-n900>:07:17
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sevardDoes anyone use tear on diablo?07:41
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slonopotamusmwahaha :)07:57
slonopotamus1. take lenny debhelper-7. 2. drop dependencies on man-db and coreutils (since they're useless) 4. upload to builder 5. ??? 6. profit07:58
slonopotamusi wonder why noone did that yet08:02
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pupnikhey slonopotamus nice to see you again08:03
slonopotamuspupnik: uh? i didn't go away :)08:03
pupnikwhat's debhelper for?08:04
slonopotamusno idea. some dark debian voodoo08:04
pupnikoh right08:05
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pupnikdh-everything08:05
slonopotamusthere are several posts outside like "oh noes, maemo's debhelper is sooo slow, it's 5.x, but we need 7.x to use lenny packages easily"08:06
slonopotamusand actually i'm running it on n900 currently :)08:06
slonopotamuslike this: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/re-debhelper_7-001/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=108:07
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pupniki don't rememebr frustrations with debhelper08:09
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slonopotamusw/e, looks like it just works08:10
* slonopotamus thinks about mass-upload of lenny packages to extras-devel and seeing what'll build :)08:10
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ruskiegah.. for some reason fmms has forced that by default anything trying to connect will try using the MMS connection instead of the internet one.. :(09:11
pupnikthe cell phone connection?09:12
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ruskieyeah... I have internet connection and mms... if I open a browser it will try to connecting using MMS09:14
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pupnikhttp://www.limofoundation.org/en/Press-Releases/limo-foundation-unveils-limo-4.html   another linux-on-mobiles to get confused by09:18
ruskieLiMo is nothing new really09:19
ruskieand apparently people seem to be able to hack them rather easily as well09:19
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pupnikwhat's hacked ruskie ?09:22
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ruskieLiMo based phones09:29
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jonwilwow, I cant believe how much better my n900 + new carrier is. I get service in places I never used to get service :)09:36
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ruskiehehe09:40
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lloft306ha09:44
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jonwilDoes anyone know where the code for that circular progress indicator lives?09:46
jonwilprobably one of the Hildon libraries but I dont know where09:46
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ZogGhow much scratchbox needs space on hdd?09:51
ZogGcause it takes about 5 gibs and i have only 10 on system one and /opt is not separate =(09:51
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ZogGI think meego should be given to HTC to release several phones with it, than it would make good for meego =)09:59
ruskie5,6G scratchbox10:00
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ZogGruskie, damn i need to reinstall funtoo on my laptop than as i can't even reformat hdd =(10:02
ZogGanyway i wanted 64 bit and set 32 by mistake =(10:02
* ruskie is trying to reclaim some rootfs space on his n900...10:02
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ruskierootfs                228M  217M  6,7M  98% / <-- kinda not really happy with this...10:03
ZogGruskie started to make simple xmms2 client, for now i managed to make only control buttons as API is simple but Qt is new to me10:03
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ruskiewell I'm more than happy with contorl buttons ;)10:03
ruskieatm I simply pop-open a terminal to control it ;)10:03
ZogGruskie just put 1T SSD inside =)10:04
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ruskiefor display I have that widget that can display term output10:04
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ZogGruskie i can make simple app with only control buttons if you want =)10:04
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ruskiedesktop widget would be nicer10:04
ZogGor for instance i can try to make widget with control buttons and take your code for song info =)10:05
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ZogGruskie, my aim to make it able to connect to local(n900 xmms2) or server (computer over local network and maybe later over bluetooth) to control computer as well =)10:06
ruskie:)10:06
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ZogGruskie, you would be first tester but it would take some time =)10:06
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pupnikyaay for xmms210:10
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ZogGruskie can you put to git your code for widget?10:10
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ruskieZogG, I'm using an already existing widget10:10
ruskiecmd line thingy10:11
ruskiedon't recall the name10:11
ZogGpupnik, don't say you use xmms2 as well =)10:11
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ZogGruskie, what app do you use for it on desctop btw?10:11
ruskienothing10:11
ruskiesince there is no client that works :(10:11
ZogGruskie, ok - than never midn =)10:11
ZogGruskie, i can share with you my friends simple client10:12
ruskieI just need something that pops up a whats playing thingy...10:12
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ZogGhttp://gtk-apps.org/content/show.php/Splean?content=11660510:12
ruskiehell I'd be happy with a client that can trigger an external command on status change10:12
ZogGruskie, this one my friend wrote after i forced him to switch to xmms2 from mpd =)10:13
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ruskiehehe10:13
ruskieI'll take a look at it10:13
ruskieI miss some of the older clients myself...10:13
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ruskiexmms2_jump and gx2osd10:13
ZogGi have one more that on my computer from other friend10:13
ZogGbut he left it and started new one with no medialib =(10:14
jonwilok, turns out that running hildon-theme-recache-all (that and switching themes and then switching back again) fixed the glitching of my circular progress indicator10:14
ZogGruskie splean has popup on it's tray icon and controls on tray icon10:14
ruskiefrankly I could live without the medialib10:14
ruskieno tray icons10:14
ZogGand it's gtk10:14
ruskieor libnotify based crap ;)10:14
ZogGi'm gtk guy =)10:14
ruskieatleast not on my desktop10:14
ruskiegtk I like ;)10:14
ruskieI'm one of those rare ppl that prefer the gtk UX to others10:15
ruskierootfs                228M  214M   11M  96% / <-- yay... optified libruby1.8 and got some hdd back...10:15
ZogGruskie, no it's client, just it has in addition controls over trayicon as well10:15
ZogGruskie, i can share one without popup and tay icon just client10:15
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MohammadAGmorning10:19
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ZogGMohammadAG \o/10:20
ZogGMohammadAG, is cssu repo down as well as extras?10:20
ZogGruskie, http://i.imgur.com/5LjbP.png - this one10:20
ruskiehmm hopefully I'll be able to switch to cssu today...10:20
MohammadAGZogG, if extras is down, the cssu is down10:21
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ZogGMohammadAG both are down for me from yesterday =(10:22
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ZogGbtw is there any bug releated to alarm? as for past days i didn't woke up and there is no way i didn't here alaram, everytime i woke up alarm was on ( the window with snoze and stop) but i didn't hear anything10:23
ZogGno way i sleep so hard for past 3-4 days not to wake up =)10:23
ruskie<-- does always10:23
ZogGMohammadAG btw i got extra nokia phone too Nokia 1616 =)10:24
ZogGruskie does always what?10:24
ruskiesleep so hard that anything I try to set as alarm has no effect10:24
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MohammadAGZogG, the only bug I encountered was me waking up (only partially), turning off the alarm, then going back to sleep10:25
ZogGMohammadAG lol, cause you need to go to sleep ewarlier =)10:25
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ZogGMohammadAG, btw i think i got job at elbit =)))10:26
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MohammadAGwell, I decided not to go to school today, so I guess I'll be productive now10:26
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ZogGMohammadAG, not good, you have to study as well10:27
ZogGMohammadAG, do you get israeli bagrut? or how does it work?10:27
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* ruskie wonders if he can remove all the locale data he doesn't need in share/microb-engine/chrome...10:28
ZogGruskie just rm -R /10:28
MohammadAGo_O10:29
MohammadAGZogG, GCEs10:29
MetallikettuNaughty boy10:29
ZogGruskie lol, the screenshot i sent u, i just opened chromium with it and tried to switch song, took me time to realize why it doesn't work as it's screenshot =()10:29
ruskierofl10:30
ZogGMohammadAG GCEs?10:30
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ruskie14M freed...10:31
ruskieremoved everything I don't use from /usr/share/locale ;)10:32
MetallikettuHas someone done any research why N900 is so slow and jerky all the time? Is it the disk I/O or the lack of ram?10:32
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MohammadAGtechnically, both10:32
MetallikettuFigured as much :/10:33
MohammadAGlow ram = swap = IO and the eMMC is slow so :P10:33
RobbieThe1stMetallikettu: edit /etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini and set the value to 110:33
RobbieThe1stReboot. Transitions will be a lot smoother10:33
MohammadAGno, don't10:33
MetallikettuI really like the device but the usability is horrid sometimes.10:33
MohammadAGit was disabled for a reason10:33
RobbieThe1stWorks perfectly for me...10:33
MetallikettuI took transitions off long time ago :)10:34
MohammadAGcrashes my device10:34
Metallikettuhelped alot10:34
RobbieThe1stWorst case, you need to disable it again10:34
RobbieThe1stBut I've had absolutely no trouble with it10:34
MohammadAGyeah, but rebooting to fix it is annoying :/10:34
RobbieThe1stTo enable/disable it? Yea... Two minutes to see how you like it10:34
MetallikettuI really hope intel gets meego going or Mee will go :)10:35
MetallikettuI will keep N900 as an car computer though.10:35
lloft306heh10:36
RobbieThe1stHm... Y'know, I wonder why my n900 works when Mohammad's doesn't. Could it be OC/UC settings or say GPU frequency or something?10:36
RobbieThe1st'course, I -know- I got lucky with my sample.10:37
MohammadAGNot sure, or my device's trolling me10:37
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jacekowskioc is bad for you10:37
jacekowskii love my new keyboard10:38
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jacekowskiit makes better sound10:38
jacekowskiand feels better10:38
MohammadAGmorning jacekowski10:38
jacekowskiMohammadAG: aren't you supposed to be at school?10:38
RobbieThe1stjacekowski: Of course it is. But it also makes things -very- nice. We all know OC'd devices will die sooner or later.10:38
ZogGjacekowski, wic one i want to buy mac keyboard or something simuliar10:38
MohammadAGjacekowski, supposed  to, indeed10:38
jacekowskiZogG: i have mac keyboard to use with my n90010:38
ZogGslim separete keys good material and easy on pushing buttons10:39
jacekowskiZogG: and even then it's not much more comfortable to use than builtin keyboard10:39
ZogGjacekowski, i want for desctop =)10:39
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ZogGreal keyboard for n900 is for pussies =)10:39
jacekowskii'm just saying that n900 keyboard is about at same comfort level as apple keyboard10:40
jacekowskiand it has strange keymap10:40
jacekowskiso you have to fuck around with it to make it work10:40
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RobbieThe1stSpeaking of strange keymap, I -just now- learned that shift+up/down works as home/end in the browser <_<10:40
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meceRobbieThe1st, jumps to top/bottom?10:41
RobbieThe1stYea10:41
MohammadAGo_O10:41
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meceRobbieThe1st, wow.. testing...10:41
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* mece gasps10:42
RobbieThe1stI dunno why I didn't figure it out until someone talked about shifted keys that hadn't been bound10:42
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RobbieThe1stand I went "hm..." *click* Cool.10:42
* mece hugs and cuddles his beloved N90010:42
mecewow10:42
meceamazing10:42
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MohammadAGI like how the N900 is the only device that can run angry birds in portrait mode :P10:42
meceIt's actually quite useful :D10:42
lloft306awsome10:42
meceMohammadAG, it can run angry birds in portrait?10:43
ZogGRobbieThe1st i knew it =)10:43
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lloft306hehe'10:43
MohammadAGmece, CTRL+SHIFT+R, the game lays out properly10:44
MohammadAG= awesome coding by rovio10:44
MohammadAGmorning javispedro10:44
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ZogGMohammadAG i'm gonna tweet it =)10:44
* mece is also10:44
lloft306tweet tweet10:44
javispedromorning folks10:44
* javispedro is at the ms wp7 event10:45
MohammadAGKILL THEM ALL!10:45
mecehmm..it hung when i tried it..10:45
javispedrofront row obviously10:45
MohammadAGmece, try it again10:45
RobbieThe1stEew10:45
mecejavispedro, did you bring eggs and rotten fruit?10:45
RobbieThe1st^^10:45
yannuxI don't have portrait mode with any application :(10:45
mecewoohoo!10:45
MohammadAGjavispedro, I packed in an M4 carbide, let's see your excuse now10:45
meceomgomgomg10:45
RobbieThe1stMore like rotten KIN phones! :P10:45
RST38hjavispedro: So, have they got you under their...errrr...spell?10:46
MohammadAGRST38h, he said he liked something about windows phone 7 yesterday10:46
MetallikettuRobbieThe1st: I enabled the setting no crashing so far10:46
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MetallikettuTransitions are a bit smoother10:47
javispedroso theyre obviously showing the 3 other ecosystems10:47
RST38hjavispedro: BTW, the front row may not be a good idea, in case Ballmer starts throwing chairs10:47
javispedroapple mblackberry hp10:47
MohammadAGMetallikettu, open/close some dialogs :P10:47
RST38hNo Android? :)10:47
javispedrono sign of android or nokia ;)10:47
RobbieThe1stMetallikettu: That's sort of what I found, though they are slightly slower due to it rendering all frames10:47
RobbieThe1stI'm gonna have to build a hacked-up transitions.ini file with fewer frames...10:47
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MohammadAGjust change radius and radius_more to 010:48
RobbieThe1stAlready did it; it's fast, but things like zooming -still- take almost .1s...10:48
RobbieThe1stI'm so used to near instant response on my Compiz-enabled desktop; transitions are so short and it runs beautifully.10:49
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MohammadAGthp's forced portrait patch is awesome10:50
ruskieforced portrait??? why does everyone want portairat mode so badly?10:51
MetallikettuFor one hand use?10:51
MohammadAGit's useful to have10:51
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meceapparently rovio is at the intel applab10:53
RobbieThe1stHm... and why would you want to use it with one hand? Cause your other is "busy"? *wink wink nudge nudge* :P10:53
meceLOL10:53
Metallikettu:) And you dont? are you a weirdo RobbieThe1st ?10:53
ZogGMohammadAG i don;t think forced portrait is awesome actully, as not all apps written properly to support portrait10:53
RobbieThe1stCertainly not on my phone :\10:53
ruskierootfs                228M  207M   18M  93% / <-- well not so bad... I'd still like to figure out what's abusing the space so much... time to start digging through var10:54
MohammadAGZogG, it can be taken forth later on to include a whitelist10:54
meceI haven't checked my rootfs in ages...10:54
MohammadAGcontacts app for example supports proper portrait mode10:54
mecebut why is it forced?10:55
meceor..10:55
meceis it forced or autorotated?10:55
MohammadAGdifference?10:56
MohammadAGall windows are rotated by h-d10:56
MohammadAGh-d = hildon-desktop10:57
lloft306is angry birds in repo or just ovi?10:57
mecewell forced sounds like it's always in portrait mode.10:57
mecelloft306, just ovi10:57
yannuxhow could I force rotation ?   web browser doesn't do10:57
lloft306k thnx10:57
b004namazing chat10:58
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meceb004n, huh?10:59
b004ni just like to see maemo fans10:59
b004nnokia n90010:59
meceb004n, :D10:59
ZogGMohammadAG, http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/242462267.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1297847760&Signature=lTSyA5NlySWyAX4NOqh9ciCQyUQ%3D10:59
b004ni luv the device10:59
MohammadAGZogG, :)11:00
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meceZogG, could you link the twitpic page?11:00
meceso I can tweet it too11:00
b004nguys what do u think will we see meego from nokia at all?11:00
meceb004n, well they said they were releasing a device, so I guess they are.11:01
b004nmece, thx11:01
javispedroms showing the nokia wp7 phone renders11:01
RobbieThe1stCue "YOU SUCK", "UGLY" etc.11:02
meceLOL11:02
mece"BOOO!!"11:02
ZogGb004n, i love you11:02
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b004njust upset that nokia is not putting all efforts into maemo/meego as many of u, i see great potential from the device like n90011:02
javispedrocto of nokia on stage11:02
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RobbieThe1stMeh; My view is if it doesn't have a root *nix terminal, it's not worth having11:03
b004nZoG, luv u 2 ;-)11:03
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mecerovio says porting angry birds to meego from maemo is a piece of cake (naturally)11:04
javispedro"big companies partnershipping" "big mass required to build a succesfull ecosystem"11:05
b004nmece, it should be... enough of proprietary apis...11:05
javispedro"wp7 is brilliant"11:05
lloft306thought i just saw it in the appup11:05
meceLOOOOL11:05
mecelloft306, are you at the appup event?11:05
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lloft306no11:06
mecelloft306, is there a stream or something?11:06
jarkkom_is MWC2011 still going on or what event you're talking about?11:06
lloft306no i was just on the angry birds page and saw a link to appup11:06
lloft306to get it11:06
b004nguys does anybody upgraded n900 battery to a bigger one? is it worth it? i didnt overclock but it eats up the battery quickly11:07
RobbieThe1stb004n: Mugen's the only option11:07
RobbieThe1stUnless you want to make a custom one with two standard batteries and a soldering iron <_<11:07
b004nRobbieThe1st, gotcha thx11:08
pupnikb004n: a spare battery and charger is probably as good or better11:08
ruskiefun... just found out where a lot of my rootfs space was hidding... /lib/modules/... forgot I made a backup copy of some modules...11:08
RST38hjavispedro: so, are they simply bullshitting on stage, or do they have something to show?11:08
ruskierootfs                228M  170M   55M  76% / that's more livable11:08
javispedrorst38h: bullshit, answering the "what if i am nokia developer" question now11:09
b004npupnik, chargers i have everywhere i go already... ;-)11:09
MohammadAGjavispedro, can you ask what they were smoking when they made the partnership?11:09
RobbieThe1st^^11:09
javispedro"symbian not dead os, lots of phones shipping, more to ship"11:09
RobbieThe1stProbably something highly illegal11:09
b004nlol11:09
MohammadAGMeeWant MeeGo11:10
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ZogGmece, i saw what you did there =)11:10
MohammadAGhmm, Mee(Want + Go)11:10
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javispedro"will you port qt to wp7?" "NO"11:10
ZogGmece, http://twitpic.com/40ct2z and it's @ZogG =)11:10
b004nElop is the 7th largest noninstitutional investor in MS, isnt it a conflict of interest in finn laws?11:10
MohammadAGthat's it, I'm coming to Barcelona11:11
RobbieThe1stMohammadAG: Nah, nah, nah. /Mee[Want|Go]/ IIRC11:11
javispedro"build an ecosystem requires focus, ...., blah blah11:11
javispedrothe model of wp7 is different11:11
javispedrorquires different framework11:11
MohammadAGso basically11:11
MohammadAGthey switched all devs from gtk to Qt to .NET11:11
MetallikettuYeah annoying times11:11
javispedrothey dont want to bring another framework into the mix11:12
javispedronecause they think itll suck11:12
MohammadAGthey already did11:12
MetallikettuNo product has ever caused me to feel like this :D11:12
b004n.NET???11:12
javispedronot because qml is bad11:12
javispedroblah blah11:12
ZogGjavispedro what is msqt.com ? =)11:12
ZogGjavispedro can you say to them hello from us? =)11:12
javispedrono :)11:12
MohammadAGjavispedro, seriously, can you ask about MeeGo or something?11:12
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RobbieThe1stOh well, I guess Nokia doesn't need my buisness. .NET's horrible, and I refuse to use it.11:13
MohammadAGZogG, I'm guessing they're reading this channel backstage then whispering what should be said11:13
javispedrohe akes questions11:13
b004nMohammadAG, LOL!11:13
javispedroany question?11:13
b004nwhen will we see MeeGo device?11:14
MohammadAGIf I was there I'd shout "MEEGO FFS, WHERE'S MY N9"11:14
Shapeshifterso, meego moves on, hooray!11:14
ZogGmece, http://twitpic.com/40cy9h another one =)11:14
b004njavispedro, can u ask that? definite dates?11:14
ZogGMohammadAG, ^11:14
javispedroany interestiiing question ;)11:15
MohammadAG"First 100 developers that have their app published in the #intel store get a cash prize !!!!!! #AppUpMWC"11:15
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* MohammadAG looks for fart sounds on the internet11:15
RobbieThe1stheh11:16
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MohammadAGjavispedro, I'm pretty sure we're all not interested in WP7, so guess not :)11:16
MohammadAGwell11:16
MohammadAG"Will it blend?"11:16
RobbieThe1st^^11:17
ZogGMohammadAG =)11:17
ZogG<MohammadAG> "First 100 developers that have their app published in the #intel store get a cash prize !!!!!! #AppUpMWC" / OMG OMG OMG OMG11:18
RST38hjavispedro: Let me guess, they are both smiling like they are cats and just eaten a mouse?11:18
MohammadAGI don't think cats smile when they eat a mouse :p11:18
javispedrothey smile when they talk about how they're been working together =)11:18
ZogGjavispedro if the meego device succeed would it make Nokia to rethink the strategy ?11:19
ruskieRST38h, so far I haven't seen those smiles on either faces from the various photos I've seen11:19
ZogGjavispedro ask about dual boot, if there is chance to have same device with option to choose WP7 or meego11:19
ruskiehttp://www.amnesty.si/files/images/Zoran Jankovic.preview.JPG <-- this guy on the other hand(our Mayor)... has that smile constantly ;)11:19
javispedro"nokia doesnt really see the need to innovate on the ui, they will center on hw & services"11:20
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RST38hruskie: Here is your first time: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4d55266accd1d5c33a150000/elop-ballmer-nokia.png11:20
ruskieseriously I can't say they have that smile...11:20
ZogGmece, MohammadAG i wouldn't be pissed off if you unfollow me, cause i write a lot in russian and less in english but i'm trying my best =)11:20
ruskiethey actually look like idiots with those smiles11:20
MohammadAGnow if only Ansii and friends could form a new small company11:20
RST38hruskie: Consider the possibiilty of removing "like"11:21
ZogGMohammadAG, i would need laetr help on Qt and maemo SDK, started to make some app, if you don't mind =)11:21
ruskieRST38h, hehe ;)11:21
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ZogGhttp://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4d55266accd1d5c33a150000/elop-ballmer-nokia.png should it be "smile and wave hand" as in madagascar with pinguins scene or should it be "hahaha nailed them@11:22
MohammadAGSigh, I really need libqtm-12-connectivity11:23
ShapeshifterI guess for nokia and microsoft it's not a bad move anyway11:23
ruskiefor nokia it is11:23
Shapeshiftermicrosoft gets a huge hardware manufacturer, nokia doesn't need to care that much about innovation anymore, a thing which they weren't good at for years, and the possibly sell more hardware.11:24
RST38hThey actually were pretty good at innovation11:25
ShapeshifterI love my n900, but be honest, nokia has been a sleeping giant for years now11:25
RST38hAnd Microsoft has been pretty bad at innovation11:25
ShapeshifterRST38h: agree with that second thing..11:25
RST38hSo, it leaves a question what kind of "innovation" we can expect as result of this quasi-merger11:25
Shapeshifterbut what innovative things has nokia released in the past years?11:25
ruskiemicrosoft really hasn't innovated on anything relevant in the last decade11:25
random-900who is "ansii and friends"?11:26
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ruskiepossible planb ?11:26
ruskieerm possibly the planb guys?11:26
Veggen_ruskie: only under its own definition of the word. Which is, "take something, glorify it, and sell it to the unsuspecting public".11:26
RST38hShapeshifter: Smartphone. Mobile Internet. Gaming phone.11:26
RST38hShapeshifter: Non-MIDI ringtones.11:27
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RST38hNeed more?11:27
jattthere is no need for plan b11:27
ruskieVeggen_, actually take something... copy it exactly... merge with that other thing we coppied from those other guys... and sell it...11:27
ShapeshifterRST38h: true, but that's years in the past11:27
ShapeshifterRST38h: for the last 5 years at least, there hasn't been much coming from nokia11:27
jattElop's strategy is correct11:27
jatthis logic is sound11:27
jarkkom_problem with all those innovations is that nokia fucked them up11:27
RST38hjatt: Do you have a mathematical proof of correctness?11:27
jattabsolutely11:28
jattI will publish it soon11:28
RST38hjatt: Please, demonstrate11:28
jarkkom_like with ngage, they went around talking to game developers asking them what they'd require to be able to make games for such a phone11:28
jarkkom_and then nokia ignored it all11:28
Shapeshifterjarkkom_: right, ngage could have been huge11:28
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jattElop will bring nokia to a new level11:28
Shapeshifterit almost took off, even11:28
Shapeshifterbut then, it was nothing but a fad11:29
Shadikka_Buying Nokia shares now wouldn't probably be a too shabby idea.11:29
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jattshares will go up11:29
b004nShapeshifter, i agree ;-)11:29
ZogGhttp://i.imgur.com/MO36D.png11:30
jattwhat is this image11:30
jattis safe?11:30
b004njatt: maybe for a short term, but strategically value of Nokia will be diminished because they will loose its competitive advantage and unique value proposition11:30
ZogGyes11:31
ZogGjatt, yes11:31
ShapeshifterRST38h: don't you agree?11:31
ZogGRST38h, ^11:31
* ZogG xmms2> Wilco - Solitaire ["Wilco (The Album)" 2009]11:32
jattb004n: are you talking about Symbian?11:32
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RST38hShapeshifter: ?11:32
b004ni just could not believe that a decison by Nokia will affect me and some of mh friends in such a way as an idiological failure ...11:32
ShapeshifterRST38h: for at least 5 years, nokia has had no innovation.11:32
ZogGShapeshifter maemo was kinda inovation11:33
jattb004n: Nokia's competitive advantage is their hardware. Now together with Microsoft they will also  have a competitive advantage in their software11:33
b004njatt: Symbian included... but its more11:33
jattsoftware is Microsoft's business11:33
ZogGif they add phone abilities from n700 it would be different11:33
jatthardware is Nokia's business11:33
b004njatt: disagree.. their uvp is the end product soft+hardware11:33
ZogGas all pads and tablets are now all about it11:33
ShapeshifterZogG: yeah, but it's never been marketed properly, it has been marketed the wrong way (leading to unhappy customers), and it's not been continued, right at the point where it started emerging beyond a geek gadget11:33
ZogGShapeshifter coz they didn't think it would be the thing of 2011 =)11:34
Shapeshifterthey fail. now tablets are taking off11:34
Shapeshifterand they had like a 3 year advantage11:34
Shapeshifteror even more11:35
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Shapeshifterthey started with the n700 or what it was called years ago, and now that tablets are taking off, they're killing it... seriously...11:35
b004ni just could not believe that a decison by Nokia will affect me and some of mh friends in such a way as an idiological failure ... the problem instead of focusing bfinging meego first and then pushing it hard to create ecosystem around it will make a greater sense.11:35
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jattthere is no accountability in meego11:36
ZogGb004n the life is unfair11:36
jattyou cannot say, as a manager, we need a release this date or that date11:36
javispedrowth is a cloud client11:36
jattthe answer will be11:36
jattwe will release it when it's ready11:36
jattsuch a nerdy response is useless for corporations11:36
b004nZogG, life is very fair. i see balance in many things. ;-)11:37
ZogGyou can but it wouldn't work you know =)11:37
ZogGlike it can work if you have enuf resources and people, but your release date should be logical11:37
RST38hno11:37
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ZogGRST38h yes11:38
Per_n900jatt: please stop now. Microsoft releases their software when its alpha and then releases service packs to get it to beta. Just please stop, ok?11:38
ShapeshifterPer_n900: tru dat11:38
jattbut you have a release date11:38
b004ngood call, Per_n900!!!11:38
RST38hZogG: In reality, the management sells the non-existent, badly defined product to clients, then tels developers that they have to deliver it yesterday11:38
ZogGjavispedro for phones i think it's client that help you to sync phone bookmrks photos with desktop or any other device11:38
jattwith meego you don't11:38
Shapeshifterjatt: huh? you forgot about how late vista was, already?11:38
Shapeshifterlike, 5 years late?11:38
jattyou get "when it's ready"11:38
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RST38hjatt: Meego has a release schedule11:39
ZogGShapeshifter and it was shitty11:39
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Shapeshiftervery11:39
jattwell it was too late11:39
RST38hIf you have not bothered to see it, does not mean it is not there11:40
jattrelease end of 2011?11:40
ZogGShapeshifter but on other hand they fixed it with w7 pretty quick11:40
Shapeshifterjatt: vista, do you remember it?11:40
Per_n900jatt: sigh. YHou do not know what you are talking about.11:40
ZogGjatt look at any selfrespectfull opensource they do release on time11:40
Shapeshifteror should I call it "longhorn"11:40
ZogGubuntu / xfce4 e.g.11:40
jattso does microsoft everything wrong?11:41
jattI don't think so11:41
ZogGbefore it was how good you are in convincing people to buy your product, today people search for support and longterm support, they prefer to wait for something good than just jump in11:42
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ZogGso promissing without delivering is mistake of nokia11:42
Per_n900jatt: what have they done right??11:42
ShapeshifterZogG: well in case of the n900, they delivered but it didn't do what they advertised11:42
jatttheir deal with nokia11:43
jatttheir ecosystem11:43
jattlisten to Elop's words11:43
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Per_n900jatt: ok. You are right. All will be good. sigh.11:44
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ShapeshifterI still like intel though :<11:45
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jattyou are right11:45
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javispedrothe microsoft ui designer works pretty much like flash11:45
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ZogGShapeshifter jatt maybe it will be good with wp7 and Nokia will get profit and phones would be awesome, but it would make Nokia just another phone brand that has nothing special, it wouldn't be competitor to others as it would be the same phones as others =)11:47
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ShapeshifterI don't really know wp7, but microsoft products have a track record of disappointing me badly11:47
jattwell n900 wasn't like anything else and only nerds bought it (I bought one)11:48
jattand nokia's strength is his hardware11:48
jattthat's his business11:48
jattNokia tried to be "something special" but then meego releases were damn to slow and they decided to go to the professionals11:49
RST38hnokia did not try to be special, it was special i.e. different from other offerings11:49
RST38hnow it is not. do you think someone will by its devices?11:49
RST38halso check the sales of wp7 devices in 4q2010 and make conclusions11:50
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KowalczykI rather go for iPhone then a nokia with wp7. im afraid11:50
KowalczykP11:50
Per_n900jatt: professionals... Are you serious??????11:50
Shapeshifterwell, anyway, considering that there still is competition e.g. on the android market, nokia has no worries11:50
jattabsolutely11:50
jattmicrosoft are professionals and they provide accountability11:50
RST38hjatt: Frankly, you are either trolling or your head is stuck where sun does not shine11:50
Shapeshifterif nokia makes better wp7 phones than other brands, they will have success. I don't see much of a problem for nokia.11:50
Per_n900jatt: you are just a troll.11:50
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RST38hjatt: Out of academic curiosity, which one it is?11:51
jattI love nokia I own a n900 myself, but open source has his flaws, and is a big pain in the neck for corporations to interact with their communities11:51
javispedroms: "no plans to talk about native apps today"11:52
* MohammadAG translates to: we don't have any native apps yet11:52
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javispedroi mean native as in non .net11:52
RST38hjatt: So, is it #2 then?11:52
RST38hMohammad: They also do not have: localization, cut&paste, multitasking, and sd card support11:53
Shapeshifterwat.11:53
Shapeshifterno copy paste?11:53
RST38hno11:53
Shapeshifteris this iOS3?11:53
Shapeshifterthat is horrible11:53
ZogGhmm some ukraine guy just made 4g modem driver for linux for Sagem f@st 9520 and Seowon SWU-3220A =)11:53
RST38hno, it is WP7. happy now?11:53
MohammadAGit has smart copy & paste11:53
Shapeshifterno sd card support??11:53
MohammadAGthe kinda that decides you only want to copy numbers11:53
RST38hNo.11:54
javispedroit has copy paste11:54
MohammadAGphone numbers that is11:54
RST38hit WILL have copy paste11:54
Shapeshifterwhat do you mean, no multitasking... Okay I haven't had a single look at wp711:54
RST38hNot HAS11:54
javispedrothe microsoft guy also said they invented copy paste!!11:54
Shapeshiftermicrosoft also invented bash scripts11:54
Shapeshifterwell, at least they have the patent11:54
javispedro(on the desktop that is ;) )11:54
RST38hjavispedro: "We invente copypaste. Again."11:54
ShapeshifterxD11:54
xkr47jorma ollila will talk on a finnish tv program today11:54
jattnever heard of that bum11:54
jattwho is he11:54
Shapeshifterah wait, not bash, sudo11:55
ZogGjatt what is th problem to interact, when users just say what they expect and even give you ready for use solution ( for example nokia could built in fmms in pr1.3) =)11:55
Shapeshiftermicrosoft patented sudo11:55
xkr47jatt, troll11:55
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ZogGjavispedro did they invent blue color?11:55
ShapeshifterZogG: they invented rainbows11:55
ZogGShapeshifter seriously they patented sudo?11:55
Shapeshifterbut no gold at the end11:56
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ShapeshifterZogG: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009111109492339011:56
ShapeshifterZogG: pretty much, yes.11:56
javispedro"if you want to develop for wp7 on a mac, just install windows on it!" (audience laughs)11:56
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ZogGit's liek kamasutra, thousands of people were sweating and trying hard and some guy just made a book and got all attention =)11:56
jacekowskiRST38h: they have sd card support11:56
jacekowskiRST38h: there was a thing about htc hd211:56
MohammadAGjavispedro, oh god11:56
ZogGjavispedro hahah =)11:56
jacekowskiRST38h: there is sd card inside11:56
RST38hjacekowski: Does not count11:57
jacekowskiRST38h: phone is just not made to be user replaceable11:57
jacekowskiehm11:57
jacekowskinot a phone11:57
xkr47/ignore jatt11:57
jacekowskicard itself11:57
RST38hjacekowski: to be fair they do require sd connectors on devices BUT force OEMs to block them from usage11:57
RST38hjacekowski; apparently got plans to swap to sd card, based on some info11:57
ShapeshifterI'll need to try one of these wp7 things some day. sounds like a horrible OS11:57
jacekowskiShapeshifter: not really11:57
jacekowskiShapeshifter: it's quite nice os11:57
jacekowskiway better than first iphone os11:58
RST38hAh, wait, have I forgotten that WP7 comes with CGA-like colors?11:58
Shapeshifterbut he just said "no multitasking and no copy/paste"11:58
jacekowskibut still bit behind11:58
Shapeshifterjacekowski: well that comparison is a bit unfair11:58
Shapeshifterthe first ios was horrible11:58
Shapeshifteractually, ios was laughable until ios4 imo11:58
Shapeshifternow it's not so bad11:58
RST38hShapeshifter: Based on previous experience with Windows, I am sure that WP will be laughable to the very end11:59
Shapeshifter:>11:59
javispedrorst38h: according to ui guy here, wp7 colors inspired by "public transportation systems"11:59
MohammadAGlol11:59
ZogGjacekowski, i bet it's nice but once again not for 2011, in 2011 people do know computer and want to configurate it as they want, they want choice. maybe back in 90 not everyone knew what is what and they just used what they had, today most of people know how to handle computer and everyone want to work as it's comfy for him11:59
RST38hShit, I am still laughing every time Win7 decides to take a 40-second break from work11:59
javispedro(thats why the call the ui "metro" seemingly)11:59
RST38hjavispedro: OMG12:00
jacekowskiwell i would even say better than iphone os 2.0 i had12:00
RST38hjavispedro: Those Redmond mushrooms must have been really bad12:00
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jacekowskiRST38h: i never had problems with windows 712:01
RST38hjavispedro: I do think they have chosen the wrong kind12:01
RST38hjacekowski: Lucky, lucky guy12:01
ZogGRST38h, i think you are too negative and fan boy, i don't like windows as well but i have nothing against it, it's just doesn't suit my requirements12:01
ZogGone thing i hate about windows that they choose standarts =(12:01
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RST38hZogG: You do not become positive after having to do work on something that barely works12:01
RST38hZogG: And of course you have to keep in mind that it is not Win7 in general but a particular corporate install of it12:02
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Shapeshiftercorporate installs of windows are making me choke myself12:02
ZogGi have windows at work at computer for browsing and fun and it's enuf to surf web and watch a movie. but it would be enuf to do what i do daily with my computer12:03
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ZogGRST38h Shapeshifter it was just the thought that something free can't be better, but now for making contract with MS any guy in corporation who is responsible for it just get a lot of money12:04
ZogGit's the same not only in computers12:04
Shapeshifter"enuf"?12:04
Shapeshifterhttp://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html related12:04
jattand is wp7 so bad?12:05
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jattwhat are the issues?12:05
jatttoo slow?12:05
RobbieThe1stjatt: No Xterm12:06
jattI mean for normal users12:07
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jattno geeks12:07
ZogGie as default browser =)12:08
jattso those are the issues?12:08
Shapeshifterno issues12:08
Shapeshiftermove along, please, nothing to see here12:08
keriojatt: oh not you again ._.12:09
keriosymbian > wp712:09
kerioand symbian is *bad*12:09
ZogGmaemo > *12:09
Shapeshiftermaemo is a pretty bad distro though12:10
Shapeshifterstill awesome for a mobile12:10
ZogGhttp://twitpic.com/40clee12:10
Shapeshifterbut it's so broken :|12:10
MohammadAGwhat does ld: cannot find -lQtConnectivity12:10
MohammadAGcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status mean?12:10
ZogGwhy is it bad? and why is it broken12:10
MohammadAGachipa, I can confirm it's a packaging issue btw12:11
MohammadAGachipa, but I'm unable to build libqtm, so can't fix it12:11
MohammadAGanyway, I only need the headers and bluetooth libs12:11
kerioZogG: oh please12:12
ZogGthe problem of maemo was that it was meant to be for one device only so it's not that customizable and have bad framework e.g. most of UI parts are built in and you can install 3rd party apps but not really change them as system default at least not everywhere12:12
ShapeshifterZogG: too much deviation from standard linux practices. Things like busybox, too much hacking in the init process, weird useless stuff like BME etc.12:12
kerio~messybox12:12
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils12:12
kerio~optification12:12
infobotmethinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence312:12
Shapeshifterexactly12:12
Shapeshiftermaemo is very messy12:13
MohammadAGMaemo 5 is messier than the rest12:13
ShapeshifterI mean, great think that we actually have a pretty cool linux phone now, instead of some hacked-up community project running on an iphone or something, but it's still messy12:13
ZogGShapeshifter Nokia just don't know how to work with opensource, they wanted devs to develop but not change or control, they wanted to be in cioontrol of everything system releated12:13
Shapeshifters/think/thing12:13
Shapeshifteroh and the one thing they *should* have changed is package management. having the index offline and using apt is inane12:14
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Shapeshiftertakes years to do anything in HAM12:14
javispedro???12:14
kerioapt is awesome, shut up12:15
javispedroso you're on one hand complaining about diverging, and on the other you request diverging from apt?12:15
kerioit's HAM's fault for being a sluggy fat elephant12:15
RST38hPeople, why is everyone suddenly an armchair analyst who knows everything about Nokia, its capacities and business strategy?12:15
compengidoes "hal-device bme" show an exact battery info? cause i full charged the battery and it shows 95% only and after 2 hours, the output percentage didn't change12:15
kerioRST38h: no we're just complaining about nerd stuff now12:15
keriowe can do that12:15
Shapeshifterjavispedro: the index should be on the server. the server should perform searches, the handset shouldn't need to reload the entire database everytime I click on "download" in HAM.12:15
Shapeshifterjavispedro: do you think HAM is good?12:16
compengifully*12:16
MohammadAGHAM is good12:16
RST38hI mean, I don't care much about jatt or other lesser known candidates for /ignore, but I thought much better about a lot of other people12:16
keriocompengi: the percentage indicator is *at best* a fair estimate12:16
MohammadAGon an i512:16
MohammadAGjavispedro, HAM != apt :)12:16
Shapeshifterwell. apt is a different story...12:16
compengikerio, why then doesn't it change constantly12:16
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keriocompengi: because it's usally a bad estimate12:17
kerio:)12:17
kerioi'd only trust the... hmm... first decimal digit?12:17
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javispedroMohammanAG: Ham is a frontend to apt.12:18
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MohammadAGjavispedro, no, it's a frontend to apt-worker12:18
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RST38hMohammad: Could you also add the author of each change to the changelog?12:18
MohammadAGapt-worker is a frontend to apt12:19
RST38hMohammad: And if it has been fixed by Nokia, just say "Nokia"12:19
MohammadAGRST38h, hmm?12:19
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ShapeshifterSo, what linux distros do you guys use these days?12:19
SpeedEvilSlackware12:19
Shadikka*cue in the holy war*12:19
RST38hMohammad: In the CSSU changelog, it would be useful to know who made which change12:20
ShapeshifterShadikka: :)12:20
ShadikkaArch and Debian. :P12:20
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MohammadAGRST38h, I see, it's all on gitorious so shouldn't be hard12:22
MohammadAGI use Ubuntu Vista12:22
MohammadAGwho uses Debian 7?12:22
RobbieThe1stProbably me12:22
ShapeshifterI use Fedora XP12:22
Shapeshifterit's much better than Slackware ME12:23
MohammadAGwhat about Red Hat ME?12:23
Shapeshifteris that a service pack to Red Hat 98plus! ?12:23
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MohammadAGyeah, it's service pack 2!12:24
MohammadAGyou forgot about Red Hat 98SE12:24
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timelesshttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2026587/plan-b-uprising-nokia-leadership-dies-death12:36
Sicelohi all :)12:36
jattnine shareholders lol12:36
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Sicelodoes N900 support CDMA EVDO REV A, CDMA 2000 1X?12:37
jattabsolutely12:37
timelessjatt: well, you too could be a shareholder, for under 10dol'u12:37
Siceloalso, does it take an R-UIM card?12:37
timelessSicelo: n900 only does gsm12:37
jattyeah but 9? and why they didn't speak up when the _majority_ of shareholders agreed with Elop's strategy?12:37
Siceloahh, thanks timeless12:37
timelessjatt: they probably weren't asked12:38
Corsacjatt: did the majority of shareholds agree?12:38
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jattoh yeah12:38
jattNokia can't do anything without its shareholder's agreement12:39
ruskieand that is subject to manipulations...12:39
alteregohttp://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3537&Itemid=7412:40
jattare you saying Elop's election as CEO was manipulated?12:40
* RST38h sighs and /ignores the troll12:40
alteregoruskie: you mean bribes?12:40
alterego:)12:40
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ruskiealterego, no... you don't need those if you know how to manipulate people12:41
jattthere is no proof12:41
jattElop is legit12:41
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alteregoMeh, who cares?12:42
ruskiewho cares what?12:42
alteregoHow Elop became CEO12:42
alteregoCan't change it.12:42
ruskiethere are ways to change it12:43
alteregoI say we just wait and see12:43
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ruskiebut I'd rather not say them out loud12:43
kerioElop comes in, share goes down - never a miscommunication12:43
kerioyou can't explain that!12:43
alteregoWhy don't we have a silent protest12:43
jattshare will go up12:43
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ruskiealterego, because silence == acceptance12:44
jattthe new phone with wp7 will be a revolution12:44
jattand then stocks will rise12:44
alteregoIt'll be shit, because WP7 is crap12:44
jattthe Elop hate here is unbelievable12:45
alterego"We'll do all your software, you just do what you're good at, cameras and hardware"12:45
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timelessjatt: selecting Elop doesn't select a strategy, it selects a CEO12:45
RobbieThe1stWp7's not gonna be any better than Windiows12:45
timelessCEO then picks a strategy12:45
RobbieThe1stWhich is mainly used because of the legacy software problem12:46
kerioRobbieThe1st: except without legacy software12:46
jattok, maybe you are right, I see some pictures of wp7 and it looks like zune, that sucks12:47
kerioalterego: the WP7 phone will be a total flop, they'll kick Elop in the butt, nokia will go back to making awesome phones with a mediocre OS like it did, and everything will stay the same12:47
alteregojatt, I've used it, it's just boring12:47
psycho_oreosdiscussion of wp7 should be banned, it has nothing to do wih maemo12:47
jattit looks boring all black and white12:47
jattwtf12:47
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ruskietrolls should be banned...12:48
psycho_oreosindeed12:48
ruskiebut then /ignore helps12:48
alteregoBoring and lacking key functions that you expect from a device, things that S60 always had and Maemo always had.12:48
psycho_oreoswhere's the ops when you needed them?12:48
timelessalterego: sorry, maemo was missing <sound recorder>12:48
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alteregotimeless: so? does wp7 have that? :D12:48
timelessit was also missing Snakes!12:48
* ruskie never used sound recorder on any phone he had...12:48
alteregotimeless: easy app that was released after about two months :P12:49
alteregoI'm not going to buy a phone that doesn't have multitasking and copy & paste12:49
SpeedEvilAlso - sim toolkit just got a lot more vital.12:49
SpeedEvilhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/14/facebook_sim/12:49
togglesholy crap..12:49
timelessalterego: oddly, c+p isn't really that necessary12:50
* ruskie tries to figure out how fecesbook on sim is actually vital...12:50
psycho_oreosI recall DocScrutinizer said something about SIM toolkit, something dreaded about them iirc12:50
togglesyou nikiaplan? people have been busy12:50
ruskietimeless, I've used c+p more often than sms ;)12:50
timelesstoggles: have you seen http://www.nokiaplanx.com/12:50
jattmost people use facebook12:51
jattof course is vital12:51
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SpeedEvilSim toolkit + facebook is a way of letting _really_ cheap phones use it. Ones without internet12:51
timelessSpeedEvil: yeah that was a wierd coincidence12:51
psycho_oreoswonder how well would that work12:52
alteregoI thought Facade-book already had sms options.12:52
psycho_oreosI thought that was pay service :)12:52
timelessalterego: sure, but that doesn't make it easy to use12:52
timelessit sounds like this gives you access to more than just status updates12:53
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alteregoYeah, the basic sim menu system sounds cool12:53
alteregoThough I wouldn't personally use it, it's just a cool basic tech :)12:53
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bash`is there a way to use the maemo flasher with libusb 0.1.3?12:54
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alteregoOh now you're cross posting :P12:54
psycho_oreoswow sounds ancient that version12:55
alteregobash`: does it not work for you? What OS are you running?12:55
bash`alterego: I'm using Arch Linux, and libusb version is 0.1.3, if I downgrade to 0.1.12 it works12:55
alteregoInteresting, and what does it say when it's not working?12:56
meceZogG, That's why I implemented translate in tweed suit :) (regarding you tweeting in russian that you mentioned some hours ago)12:56
bash`alterego: Unable to enumerate USB buses12:56
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alteregobash`: is that dmesg output?12:57
bash`alterego: no, that's flasher output12:57
alteregoHrm, weird12:58
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ketassome talk about different "ecosystems", can't we just make one?12:58
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alteregoketas: where's the fun and drama in that? And what ecosystem would you suggest?12:58
jattmicrosoft already has a great ecosystem12:58
jattno need to make a new one12:59
alteregojatt: I admit, MSDN is very good and the tools are extremely good.12:59
alteregoBut so is Qt12:59
alteregoAnd Qt is more fun12:59
alteregoAnd portable12:59
ketaswhy microsoft doesn't rule the world then?12:59
jattbut qt has no ecosystem13:00
alteregojatt: it has a great ecosystem,13:00
jattis just a bunch of hackers13:00
jattmost in basements13:00
jattno accountability there13:00
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alteregoqt.nokia.com is brilliant.13:00
mecehttp://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/a-tech-ecosystem-for-the-rest-of-us/13:00
alteregothen there's the qt developer site.13:00
alterego#qt13:01
MohammadAGSkype uses Qt13:01
MohammadAGand last I checked, Skype isn't a bunch of hackers13:01
bash`alterego: is there a way to get maemo-flasher sources?13:01
MohammadAGbash`, no13:01
ketassince when bunch of hackers became insult13:02
alteregobash`: why are you loading kernel anyway? use uboot.13:02
MohammadAGketas, it's not an insult13:02
alteregobash`: enable the extras-devel repo on your N900 and install the uboot kernel.13:02
ketass/insult/something bad/13:02
infobotketas meant: since when bunch of hackers became something bad13:02
bash`alterego: right, uboot is a solution13:02
mecewhat ketas said. MohammadAG I think he was referring to jatt's comment.13:02
alteregoThen it'll load meego auto magically if you have the microsd inserted.13:02
alteregobash`: you can also get it to boot maemo manually by interrupting the timeout on boot and typing "run noloboot"13:04
bash`alterego: the last time I used it (a couple of months ago) I was not able to edit the default boot, I'd like to run Maemo as default13:04
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alteregobash`: which is generally what I do when I can't be bothered to take out the sd card13:04
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bash`ok13:04
meceI'd also want it to default to noloboot13:04
alteregobash`: yeah, it's a shame you can't change the default. but meh, how often to you reboot :P13:04
meceuboot is oss afaict13:05
alteregomece: should be quite easy to do, but I don't know off hand how, maybe have a chat with stskeeps in #meego-arm13:05
bash`alterego: never :P but once it rebooted because of a "kernel error" or something like that13:05
alteregobash`: :) Well like I said, if you interrupt the boot count down you can type "run noloboot" to get it to go to maemo13:06
bash`yes I know that...installing uboot :)13:06
* bash` needs to buy a microSD class 6!13:06
alteregobash`: also, you can always download the uboot kernel package and install it and uninstall it when you don't plan on using meego for a while.13:07
alteregobash`: my class 4 works great tbh :P13:07
bash`alterego: class 2, too slow!13:07
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MohammadAGemmc ftw13:07
alteregoyeah that is probably quite bad :d13:07
bash`btw, Meegons are awesome :D13:08
bash`alterego: wrong channel again :P13:09
alteregoIs a MeeGone what they call us after the MS deal? :D13:09
alteregojk13:09
bash`:D13:09
alteregoOr is a MeeGon what the LHC are looking for?13:09
mecealterego, oh yeah, I thought it sounded familiar13:10
alteregoMeeGon could be a cool name for a game :P13:10
alteregoWith the little meego characters13:10
mecehee13:11
mece:D13:11
mecethey run around a labyrinth and eat heads of people called stephen or steve?13:11
sandst1alterego: www.meegos.com :P13:11
alteregoMeeGo - MeeGos - MeeGon13:12
mecewtf?13:12
bash`gh13:12
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khertanMorning13:16
pupnikhuhu13:18
alteregoAloha13:19
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ZogGmece what is tweed suit and you prob don't have it on n900 =)13:37
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ZogGRST38h, http://www.newmoldova.com/node/48913:41
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ZogGactually anyone who interested it's interesting review of CS championship in club with gentoo on computers without harddrives =)13:42
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vanezyhi there13:44
vanezyI have seen that the kernel used by the n900 is quite old13:45
vanezyis not possible to use the mainline kernel?13:45
MohammadAGMeeGo uses 2.6.3713:45
_nicolai_Hi, anyone had time to look at my patch for bug 11933 (Community SSUs hildon-home)?13:47
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/11933 desktop edit menu can not handle additional desktops (5-9)13:47
khertanSomeone know what mean the fast blinking orange led ?13:47
vanezyMohammadAG, so what's the difference between maemo and meeGo?13:47
alteregovanezy: unfortunately not, as a lot of closed components are unupgradeable to new versions ov kernel.13:47
khertanok ... low battery13:47
khertandidn't charge via usb13:47
vanezyalterego, for instance?13:47
MohammadAG_nicolai_, it'll be in the next update (haven't updated git/bmo yet)13:48
alteregovanezy: sgx, bme, mce, libisi, the list is probably quite long.13:48
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alteregoAlso sysfs has a habit of changing and screwing other stuff.13:48
MohammadAGalterego, shouldn't you be the one talking about MeeGo?13:49
alteregoSo I wouldn't be suprised if there was a lot of stuff that needs tweaking both open and closed.13:49
_nicolai_ah, ty. I wasn't sure if this patch is working.(Don't have much experience with git)13:49
alteregoMohammadAG: when necessary :P13:49
alteregoGo MeeGo Go!13:49
vanezyalterego, got it.. do you know if MeeGo is better than Maemo?13:49
alteregovanezy: depends what you mean by "better" :P13:50
vanezyalterego, it uses a newer kernel compared to Maemo13:50
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alteregoIt's not user ready if that's what you mean, but it is technically better and certainly on the leading edge of software versions.13:50
vanezyalterego, ok you're right.. the question then is: what are the advantages of using maemo instead of MeeGo?13:50
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alteregovanezy: everything works? :P13:51
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alteregoCurrently MeeGo is only good for platform developers and app devs that want to get a headstart.13:51
vanezyalterego, uhm.. not everything because it uses an old kernel13:51
alteregoThat's MeeGo handset. MeeGo netbook I hear is very good.13:52
vanezybut for example do you know if is possible to use usb-host mode with n900 in MeeGo?13:52
alteregoAnd the new tablet UX looks very cool.13:52
vanezycool13:52
alteregovanezy: no, it's not possible to use usb host in MeeGo13:52
vanezyah ok13:52
vanezythat's not good.. do you know why?13:52
alteregoAnd like maemo, you'll need a custom/non-official kernel.13:53
vanezyalterego, got it13:53
JaffaBTW, what prevents using the MeeGo kernel in Maemo? Presumably closed source connections between modules and/or user-land and the kernel?13:53
* alterego is suprised his thumbs don't ache the ammount he types on his N90013:53
vanezy:D13:54
alteregoI donmt think I've used my laptop in about a week except to watch a dvd ..13:54
timelessJaffa: i suspect people haven't tried13:54
timelessif the meego kernel supports all of the components which the maemo kernel had to hack in, then in theory it should work13:55
vanezyuhm ok13:55
timelessoffhand, i suspect the meego kernel doesn't offer the watermark stuff13:55
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Jaffatimeless: watermark?13:55
vanezywatermark?13:55
timelessbut that didn't actually work in maemo5 so not having it might not be a big deal13:55
LjLwatermark?13:55
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Jaffatimeless: It seems no-one knows what "the watermark stuff" is ;-)13:57
timeless...13:57
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khertanhum ... strange battery problem on my n90013:57
DocScrutinizermoo13:57
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alteregobbl13:58
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timelesshttp://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.9.2/source/xpcom/base/nsMemoryImpl.cpp#13714:00
timelessfor lack of a better reference14:00
MohammadAGJaffa, I tried it14:00
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MohammadAGit failed somewhere after loading the kernel14:01
MohammadAGI don't have sources though14:01
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timelesshttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=watermark <- slow search14:01
timelesshttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/glibc-2.5.0/glibc-2.5/sysdeps/unix/bsd/bsd4.4/bits/ioctls.h#139 <- libc bits14:02
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timelesshttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/security/lowmem.c#40 <- is /probably/ the right part of the kernel14:04
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timelesshttp://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/security/lowmem.c <- is the equivalent bits in fremantle14:05
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vanezyhi there14:10
vanezyI'm watching the debian/patches/series file14:10
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vanezyyou (the usb host mode team) have modified it with strings like:14:11
vanezy#usbhostmode.diff14:11
vanezystuff...14:11
vanezyusbhostmode.diff14:11
vanezy#usbhostmode.diff14:11
vanezysorry14:11
vanezybt-mice.diff14:11
vanezywhy have you put those #?14:11
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KevinBHI folks14:12
KevinBWould it be masochistic to port meego-touch on maemo? :D14:12
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VenemoKevinB: it is already ported afaik.14:14
VenemoKevinB: should work14:14
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KevinBhooo yep, its demo is widget gallery is that it?14:14
VenemoKevinB: something like that, yes14:14
KevinBso what about creating a full meego-touch UI for maemo14:15
DocScrutinizervanezy: eh? sorry, please elaborate14:15
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DocScrutinizervanezy: and this chan isn't the hostmode-team14:15
vanezyyep you're right14:16
DocScrutinizersome users here in are memers of h-e-n14:16
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DocScrutinizermembers*14:16
vanezyit's better to go in the other chan then14:16
DocScrutinizerI doubt14:16
MohammadAGI think t-tan kept all patches in there14:17
MohammadAGthe old non-working ones, and the working ones by paul14:17
MohammadAGhe also kept the egoshin patches14:17
MohammadAGbut they're commented out14:17
DocScrutinizeraaah14:17
vanezyanyway I'm trying to patch the kernel manually14:17
vanezywith quilt14:17
vanezyMohammadAG, ah ok14:18
vanezycool14:18
vanezythe problem is that when I patch it patches just to the nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff14:19
vanezythat's the first14:19
DocScrutinizerI never wrapped my head around how titan is handling that powerkernel stuff, just heard a lot of devels moaning and swearing14:19
vanezyI got Applied patch nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff14:19
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vanezyI did: export QUILT_PATCHES=/usr/src/kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches14:20
vanezyexport QUILT_SERIES=/usr/src/kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/series14:20
vanezyquilt push14:20
vanezyit should be ok this command to patch all14:20
vanezyshouldn't?14:20
vanezyit?14:20
psycho_oreosquilt push -a14:21
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MohammadAGwhy don't you just use fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b btw14:21
vanezyuhm I did it but I got: The topmost patch nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff needs to be refreshed first.14:21
vanezyI used quilt refresh but it goes in "tilt"14:21
vanezyMohammadAG, because I want to create another patch14:22
MohammadAGthen put it in debian/patches :P14:22
vanezyand so  I need the last version of the code14:22
vanezyyep but in order to create it I need the code :P14:22
DocScrutinizer~lart titan for not using git14:22
* infobot keeps mailing titan free America Online CDs until he drowns for not using git14:22
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vanezydoing quilt refresh nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff14:27
vanezyI get: Patch nokia-20094803.3+0m5.diff is not applied14:27
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LjLbah, i really wonder why the OS that came with my N810 seemed to be different from what i reflashed it with. another thing i realized now is that, when i'd disconnect the power, it'd show me a popup saying that i should remember to unplug the charger. now it doesn't.14:31
DocScrutinizero.O14:31
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LjLdo your devices do that?14:32
DocScrutinizermine frequently does, even double - with some weird tana-fi-charger-notify nonsense - since I installed some applet I guess14:33
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DocScrutinizerdrives me mad, I'd consider it a major bugfix when it finally shut up on charger plug removal :-D But that's no answer to your question, sorry14:35
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LjLquestion: how much CPU power (and therefore electricity) does it consume to show all those warnings? :P14:36
DocScrutinizerlittle14:37
LjLyeah i know, not enough irony14:37
DocScrutinizerwell, at least I can say I had no major OS update since maybe 2 years on N810, so no idea what's happening if you do that nowadays14:39
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LjLwell, the mystery is this: the seller told me that he had flashed the device with the latest version (he gave me the link he used) before shipping it to me. that's the same version that i used, and reflashing it i don't get back the things that i had initially.14:40
* DocScrutinizer makes mental note in RED to finally update spare N810 from what it shipped with14:40
LjLso the only explanation i can think of right now is that i had immediately installed some app that modified the system's behavior, but i can't think which...14:40
LjLor, the seller is lying and he modified stuff :P but he seems like a very careful fellow14:40
DocScrutinizerLjL: maybe he flashed rootfs but not the user settings? but then I don't see ho that shall work out on N810/diablo, with /home on NAND14:42
VenemoLjL: maybe he had something installed.14:42
LjLi don't recall seeing anything special in application manager though14:43
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DocScrutinizerthe funny stuff doesn'T show up in HAM14:43
LjLi don't really complain, as if i want to, i think i can replicate those behaviors...14:43
LjLi'm just puzzled14:43
VenemoLjL: btw, are you happy with your N810? :)14:45
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LjLVenemo: not very, but i'm not entirely unhappy either. as to software availability and ease of use, Android would have seemed a better choice for my sister. i'm not sure about the Archos 5 though, since it's stuck on 1.6 and apparently can't use Flash... but i suspect it'd have been a better choice14:46
VenemoLjL: not necessarily14:47
VenemoLjL: and what does your sister think?14:47
LjLat the same time, the N810 does what i meant it to do - reading ebooks, browsing the web, communicating, and some little games - if not exceptionally well, so i can't say it let me down entirely14:47
LjLVenemo: haven't given it to her yet, her birthday is in march14:47
LjLstill got time to tweak it :P14:47
Venemooh. so you're playing with it for yourself now :P14:47
LjLyes ;)14:47
LjLright now i'm trying to get some sort of wifi geolocation to work on it14:48
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LjLit's certainly a cool device to tinker with, although the motivation for that is scarce now that the OS is abandoned14:49
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Mece_you know what I really miss on my N900?14:49
VenemoLjL: well you could work on the MeeGo hw adaptation if you want to14:49
khertanpffff battery seems dead14:49
khertanor charger or usb port14:49
Mece_ctrl-alt-F1 and those.14:50
LjLVenemo: i don't think i'm up to that, i mostly tend to work with just scripts or maybe i can port some programs from the N900 (haven't tried yet), but systems developing is likely out of my reach14:50
treebeenhmm, guys, I've just watched a maemo video and I thought it looks pretty nice. based on debian, wow. nokia probably shouldn't have started the whole meego stuff14:50
chem|sttreebeen: tru14:51
LjLand then stopped it ;(14:51
LjLstill, Maemo is half closed source, i'd be glad - in theory - they switched to something almost fully open14:51
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Mece_exactly14:52
chem|stLjL: also tru14:52
Mece_although I would also prefer debian based.14:52
LjLme too, but *shrug*14:52
Mece_but doesn't really make that much difference14:52
chem|stwho wouldn't?14:52
treebeeni don't understand, they had brought maemo pretty far, then the practically abandon it for meego in a time where they knew they don't have time...14:53
chem|sttransforming maemo into debian-mobile or something would be a neat thing14:54
Mece_i have high hopes for Cordia :) I would actually like to contribute to that.14:54
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khertantreebeen, probably some microsoft agent infiltred in Nokia to kill the project14:55
VenemoMece_: #cordia14:55
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treebeenkhertan: or just some stupid managers...14:55
khertanSomeone know what mean a really fast orange led blinking on n90014:56
khertanand what mean the always power on led with orange color14:57
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alteregokhertan: I'm guessing a weird bug from what I've witnessed myself :)14:57
khertanalterego, and which can be resolv how ?14:58
khertanalterego, device didn't charge14:58
khertandidn't boot up14:59
alteregooh, eek :/14:59
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alteregoHrm, so your N900 is off, and when you try to charge with mains adapter what happens exactly?15:02
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khertannothing15:04
khertanok hum ... seems to be the battery15:04
khertani ve put the battery in an other n90015:04
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khertanat least it start15:04
khertanbut while connected to usb15:04
khertanled is blinking fast in red now15:04
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SpeedEvilI vaguely recall seeing LED blinking red.15:05
SpeedEvilI don't recall it though.15:05
jattred?15:06
jattnever seen it red15:06
jattonly yellow and green15:06
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bash`and white :)15:07
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khertanand red15:07
MohammadAGPatternError = blinking red15:07
khertanhum ... now the second battery is charging over usb15:07
khertanhum ... really strange15:07
MohammadAGsome critical error occured15:07
bash`does N900 support usb printers?15:07
jattyou can't install cups on it I think?15:08
jattI think printing is unsupported15:08
SpeedEvilbash`: In principle, yes, with hostmode.15:08
jattand wireless printers15:08
SpeedEvilbash`: But that's the hardware, not the software.15:08
bash`SpeedEvil: hostmode, what that means?15:08
SpeedEvilThe default software does not15:08
jattare they supported?15:08
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SpeedEvilbash`: The software does not support it, and you would need considerable effort and knowledge to get it working. Though it's in principle possible.15:09
MohammadAGjatt, you can install cups15:09
khertan<MohammadAG> some critical error occured <<< hum ...15:10
khertanMohammadAG, how to know15:10
jattnice, will try15:10
MohammadAGkhertan, no idea, I just know blinking red = error15:10
jattmy wireless printer is an epson and I had to install some proprietary drivers on ubuntu to make it work15:10
khertanMohammadAG, yep error occurs ... no charging :)15:10
MohammadAGPatternError=0;5;0;r;9d8040007f007f0040ff7f007f000000;9d80000015:10
bash`jatt: I think that even if you install cups, you can print only using 'lp'...none software does not support it as SpeedEvil said15:11
SpeedEvilAnd I have a wireless printer too.15:12
SpeedEvilI am currently using it with my n900.15:12
jattok, so it will work with lp to print a txt file to a fancy wireless printer?15:12
SpeedEvil(open n900 back cover, get microSD, slide into holder, plug into printer)15:12
fluxmaybe a future-proof solution would be to set it up to print all emails from a certain mailbox fitting a certain criteria15:12
DocScrutinizermeh, openoffice should print, no?15:13
DocScrutinizer:-D15:13
SpeedEvilAlas, that is a very, very silly way to print.15:13
SpeedEvilEspecially documents, that need converted to jpeg.15:13
javispedrothis wp7 panel is funny. half of the answers are "no, we don't support that. yet."15:14
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ruskielol15:14
jattmultitasking? not supported15:14
DocScrutinizer\o/ VB migration job offer15:14
bash`alterego: dd ended, time: real    107m14.271s :S15:14
DocScrutinizer*cough*15:14
javispedrothey do not have anything against opengl or webgl seeemingly15:15
alteregobash`: eek, did you do that on device?15:15
javispedrowhich is a surprise, considering I already saw dx11mobile on the slides =)15:15
bash`alterego: no, on my pc15:15
alteregoCrikey, takes mine about 5 minutes :/15:16
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DocScrutinizeralterego: told you not to instruct people to dd dev/urandom to their sda!!15:16
kerioyou did wht15:16
keriowhat15:16
bash`alterego: I passed the option bs=4096 to dd15:16
khertan<javispedro> < they do not have anything against opengl yet ... but is it available ? :)15:16
alteregoI'd have expected maybe 15m on a class 215:16
DocScrutinizerbash`: muhahaha15:16
keriooh15:16
alteregobash`: yeah, should be fine.15:16
bash`DocScrutinizer: what? :P15:17
DocScrutinizer4096k would've been faster15:17
javispedrokerthan: "no, we don't support that yet" ;)15:18
Mece_lol15:18
* DocScrutinizer ponders to declare WP7 a ban'able subject15:19
RobbieThe1stYES15:20
BCMMheh, like PRs used to be? "anyone know when will nokia release WP7 for the n900?"15:21
timelesshey, asking about pr1.5 is still bannable iirc15:21
timelessinfobot: pr1.5?15:21
* infobot beats timeless with a Nostradamus papercopy 25.3 times. "That's your PR1.5!"15:21
* DocScrutinizer shakes the banhammer15:22
ruskielol15:22
psycho_oreosshould be banned in general, afterall nokia abandoned maemo for meego before pretty much ditching most of the support status on meego to focus on microsoft partnership15:22
BCMMtimeless: 1.5? what about 1.4?15:23
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* Mece_ shakes DocScrutinizer who is shaking the banhammer.15:24
timelessBCMM: i just got beaten up w/ a papercopy of nostradamus, you ask!15:24
Mece_still, mocking it is good for morale15:24
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DocScrutinizer~pr1.415:26
infobotPR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject15:26
BCMMmeh, if i wanted to see linux users complaining about Windows while somebody waves the banhammer unheaded, i'd troll ##linux15:26
BCMM~pr1.3.3.715:26
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DocScrutinizer~pr1.3.3.715:27
Mece_hmm.15:27
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DocScrutinizer~pr1.3.3.715:27
infobotwell, pr1.3.3.7 is CSSU as leet as MohammadAG15:27
BCMMdid the bot just die, or does it not report when it doesn't know stuff?15:27
BCMMoh15:27
Mece_cssu should change the version in "About Product"15:28
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BCMMCSSU should translate the entire About Product screen to 1337speak15:28
* BCMM opens a bug15:28
MohammadAGMece_, ovi store shouldn't be checking that version15:29
Mece_that too. but more importantly it should inform the user that cssu is being used.15:29
DocScrutinizer~frondlpfartz15:29
MohammadAGyet, it does15:29
Mece_ah true.15:29
DocScrutinizer~factinfo frondlpfartz15:29
infobotDocScrutinizer: there's no such factoid as frondlpfartz15:29
MohammadAGI still can't figure out strings in C15:29
BCMMMohammadAG: what about them?15:29
BCMMMohammadAG: i mean, they don't exist of course, but that isn't a problem15:30
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MohammadAGhttp://pastebin.com/hp3mPyYt15:31
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LjLVenemo: N810 is growing on me though, because if you look quite hard, eventually you find that some things you thought weren't available, are. for instance, i wanted a Boggle game, and thought there was only one for the N900... but then, in Garage there is a Diablo .deb, which doesn't work through Application Manager, but installs and works fine with dpkg15:31
VenemoLjL: :)15:31
VenemoLjL: I would bet that you won't want to give it to your sister :P15:31
* SpeedEvil sighs at stupid hardware.15:32
SpeedEvilMy radio is bootlooping.15:32
SpeedEvilIt has an internal battery, so I can't easily stop it.15:32
BCMMMohammadAG: path is a char pointer, right?15:32
jattdoes n900 supports fm radio, to listen to fm broadcasts?15:33
LjLVenemo: oh that's for sure, i definitely want to keep stuff like this... but part of the "present" idea is to part with it :P15:33
SpeedEviljatt: yes15:33
VenemoMohammadAG: a string in C is an array of characters that ends with the 0 character15:33
MohammadAGchar path[1035];15:33
BCMMMohammadAG: were you hoping to get the length of the string from sizeof?15:33
jattdo I need to install an application for it?15:33
VenemoMohammadAG: any string function in C will iterate through the array until it finds 015:33
MohammadAGBCMM, idk, it was an example :P15:33
BCMMMohammadAG: a string is just a character array. a function knows it's finished when it gets to a null char. there is no way to determine it's size other than reading it till you get to a null, or storing the size in a separate int or something15:34
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BCMMMohammadAG: so path is just a char pointer to the start of the character array15:35
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BCMMMohammadAG: i think sizeof() is supposed to be called on a *type*, e.g. sizeof(char) returns 1, since a char occupies one byte15:35
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VenemoBCMM: no, sizeof(something) tells the size of a variable too15:36
BCMMVenemo: oh, ok15:36
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VenemoBCMM: however it doesn't know of dynamic allocations15:36
BCMMMohammadAG: nevertheless, that will give you the size of a pointer in memory, not the length of the string15:36
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BCMMit's generally when allocating stuff, so if you want an array of ten integers you can malloc(10*sizeof(int)) so your code doesn't break on a platform where integers are a different size15:38
VenemoBCMM: right15:38
BCMM^generally used when15:38
VenemoBCMM: also, sizeof() can return the size of an array, but not a dynamically allocated array15:38
DocScrutinizerprintf("%s", path);   VS   printf(path, version);15:38
Venemobrb15:38
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BCMMVenemo: oh, it can return the size of an array? when passed a pointer to the start of it?15:39
BCMMhow does that work?15:39
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Mece_my N900 is super fast today. I wonder what is the cause is15:39
VenemoBCMM: NO, not dynamic arrays15:39
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VenemoBCMM: just static arrays15:39
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VenemoBCMM: eg. int i[5];15:39
BCMMVenemo: still, how does it do taht?15:39
BCMMoh i see15:39
VenemoBCMM: if you just do int *i = malloc(5*sizeof(int)); then of course it won't return the size of the 'array'15:40
BCMMVenemo: hang on, after doing int i[5]; sizeof(i)==sizeof(int)*5?15:40
VenemoBCMM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizeof#Using_sizeof_with_arrays15:41
BCMMeven though i is just an int pointer to the start of the array?15:41
BCMMalso, why don't i have a sizeof man page ffs?15:41
DocScrutinizerint printf(const char *format, ...);   The  functions  in  the  printf()  family  produce output according to a format as described below15:41
DocScrutinizerprintf(path, version);  path = format??15:41
VenemoBCMM: int* is in fact different from int[]15:42
VenemoBCMM: "When sizeof is applied to an array, the result is the size in bytes of the array in memory."15:42
BCMMDocScrutinizer: hadn't even seen that yet...15:42
BCMMVenemo: ok, looks like i don't know how static arrays work. sorry15:43
MohammadAGholy crap that's a long conversation15:43
MohammadAGwas my question answered? :P15:43
VenemoBCMM: as far as the language is concerned, int* is not an array and int[] is not a pointer. although the latter _can_ be implicitly converted to a pointer15:43
BCMMVenemo: i take it that a dynamic array really is just a pointer to the start of the array?15:43
MohammadAGhttp://pastebin.com/2pr0Pyks15:43
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VenemoBCMM: correct. a 'dynamic array', according to the language, is NOT an array.15:43
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BCMMVenemo: ah, ok - i feel a little less clueless now15:44
VenemoBCMM: a dynamic array is just a pointer pointing to some chunk of memory that you have. the language doesn't know its size or anything15:44
BCMMi've had little reason to use static arrays, and assumed they were a special case of dynamic arrays15:44
VenemoBCMM: however the size of a static array is known at compile time, thus the language can know about it15:44
BCMMVenemo: yeah, i was wondering how it wors15:45
BCMM^"works", but i guess sizeof() is evaluated at compile-time anyway15:45
VenemoBCMM: read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizeof#Using_sizeof_with_arrays15:46
BCMMVenemo: thanks15:46
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VenemoBCMM: "C99 also allows variable length arrays where the length is specified at runtime [2]. In such cases the sizeof operator is evaluated in part at runtime to determine the storage occupied by the array."15:46
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Venemoanyway, I have to go now15:50
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: line 29,30 look weird to me15:54
BCMMi was thinking that... are you trying to append to or replace "Version: "?15:55
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BCMMthe way i read that, it will replace "Version: " with an equal number of characters taken from fp15:57
Mece_cssu feature request: display status bar (or just clock) in task switcher15:58
BCMMthat's a good idea, actually - i find myself switching from a fullscreen app to the desktop just to check the time15:59
Mece_i hate it when I need to go to desktop or un-fullscreen the browser to find out what time it is.15:59
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ZogGBCMM set everything but need to reinstall funtoo as have only 10 gibs on / and /opt is the same partition =)16:01
ZogGno way to repartition it =)16:01
BCMMnot sure i understand - did you install with a funny partition scheme?16:01
achipaMohammadAG: check libqtm-12-[newest]16:02
ZogGi didn't think scratchbox would take more than 5 gibs =)16:03
ZogGand i have only 10 even less on /16:03
ZogGas scratchbox in /opt and i have no separete partition for it it uses / space =)16:03
ZogGanyway i have to go16:03
ZogGtalk to you all later =)16:03
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: 19        const char    *version     = NULL; /* allocates one word for storing pointer*/  27       version = "Version: "; /* will segfault as version points to addr NULL */  29 //sizeof(version) isn't doing what you think it is16:08
BCMMZogG: why not just use on large partition?16:08
BCMMZogG: also, you could do something nasty with symlinks, just like maemo :)16:08
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timelessDocScrutinizer: err16:09
BCMMDocScrutinizer: surely that will only segfault if you're lucky?... the rest of the time, it'll just do undefined stuff16:09
timeless"Version: " is a pointer to a constant area with value "Version: \0"16:09
timelessso const char * version = NULL; version = "Version: "; is perfectly ok16:09
BCMMoh, he's right16:10
DocScrutinizertimeless: ok, yeah16:10
BCMMtimeless: the bit i don't understand is that it's possible to re-assign a const char*16:10
BCMMwhat does the const do?16:10
timelesssizeof(version) otoh is equivalent to sizeof(const char*)16:10
DocScrutinizerstill while (fgets(version, sizeof(version), fp) != NULL) looks fishy16:10
timelessBCMM: consider const char const * const version = NULL;16:10
* timeless can't remmeber if you can do that, but...16:11
timelessroughly [const char] [const *] version = "hello";16:11
timelessthe first const modifies char and says "you can't write on this char"16:11
DocScrutinizeras version is pointing to const area of program text16:11
timelessthat's unrelated :)16:12
DocScrutinizeryou must not write to it16:12
timelessyou can be evil16:12
thpBCMM: there's a trick to "read it backwards"16:12
timelesschar * version = (char*)"Version: ";16:12
timelessyou will probably crash when you do version[0]='v';16:12
thpso "const char * version" -> "version is a pointer to a character constant"16:12
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thpwhereas "char * const version" -> "version is a constant pointer to a character"16:13
fluxthere's a rule: "const refers to the object to the left, except unless there is no such thing, then to the object on the right" :)16:13
BCMMi don't understand the "while" at all...16:13
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BCMMsurely he just wants to fgets once, with a buffer that is sufficiently large to contain the entire version string?16:14
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DocScrutinizeryes16:14
DocScrutinizerand there's no sense in printf16:14
DocScrutinizerto stdout16:15
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i presumed that was for debugging?16:15
DocScrutinizeryeah, maybe16:15
BCMMseems to me like that would run fgets, which returns non-NULL, do the loop contents, then pointlessly run fgets again, which returns NULL16:15
BCMMwell, that's what it would do if the buffer was sufficient anyway16:16
DocScrutinizerbut the buffer is an address actually ?16:16
BCMMDocScrutinizer: ?16:16
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BCMMam i right in thinking that the objective of lines 29-31 is to put a string like "20.2010.36-2maemo11" in version, then printf it just for debugging?16:18
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MohammadAGachipa, [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/libqtm-12-dev.list  | grep QtConnectivity16:20
MohammadAG[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] >16:20
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: 35  gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor (buffer, version, -1);16:24
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: I think it's planned to hold "Version:  20.2010.36-2maemo11" - that's overly complex in itself16:26
DocScrutinizerthe constant "Version:  " should get an own gtk_text_buffer_insert_at_cursor (buffer, cVersionlabel, -1) line16:27
timelessMohammadAG: fwiw, there is an api variant of dpkg, you should consider using it16:28
timeless(using Awk is gross)16:28
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timelessMohammadAG: also, <thanks to:> should really be split from the list of <thankees> which should be read from a file or something16:29
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timelessoh, and don't forget to add _()s :)16:30
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DocScrutinizerWTF _()s16:31
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: line 62,65,66,70,71 also look weird16:37
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timelessDocScrutinizer: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=%23define.*gettext&regexp=on&find=&findi=\.h%24&filter=_\%28&hitlimit=&tree=fremantle16:37
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chem|stfsck16:38
chem|stwhere is the lockcode stored?16:38
DocScrutinizerif width less than 800, set width=480 height=500. if width >=800 set width=480 height=36016:38
DocScrutinizerCAL16:38
DocScrutinizerchem|st: ^^16:38
chem|stDocScrutinizer: don't!16:39
chem|stdevice isn't locked but yet I'd like to recover!16:39
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DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post52452216:40
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chem|st crap thing...16:46
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chem|stis there any way to just reset it?16:47
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chem|stI realy should not use phone numbers for lock codes16:49
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MohammadAGhmm17:04
MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ john -format:DES -i:digits lockcode17:04
MohammadAGNo password hashes loaded17:04
DocScrutinizerchem|st: factory setting is "12345" (sic!), means the routine checking the entered lockcode to the CAL value has a special procedure for this value that doesn't use the encoding. IF CAL="12345" AND lockcode_entered="12345" THEN unlock()17:04
achipaMohammadAG: hm, it seems it's an upstream thingy, it doesn't mark itself...17:04
achipaas in 'make install' doesn't work17:04
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MohammadAGachipa, compiling libQtConnnectivity on its own worked though17:05
MohammadAGdoing a make install in src/connectivity/ does17:06
achipaMohammadAG: yeah, I added that in the update I pushed this afternoon, but the missing include is actually not my fault :)17:06
MohammadAGachipa, I couldn't find it17:06
achipaMohammadAG: find what ?17:06
MohammadAGthe headers17:06
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MohammadAG cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/libqtm-12-dev.list | grep QtConnectivity returns no hits17:07
achipaMohammadAG: I know, as said, make install doesn't put them in the right place.17:07
MohammadAGany chance you could fix that?17:09
MohammadAG(what did you add in the update?)17:09
achipathe .so (oops) :)17:09
MohammadAGI couldn't find the .so too :p17:10
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achipayeah, but now the autobuilder is complaining, a tic...17:10
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achipablearh17:11
achipaBT builds for ARM but not for i38617:11
MohammadAGalso, any idea where I can get QtM 1.2 for Ubuntu?17:12
achipathe forum nokia PPA, of course !17:12
MohammadAGthere's a PPA?17:12
achipayeah, but don't tell anyone, because they might get confused17:13
achipahttps://launchpad.net/~forumnokia/+archive/fn-ppa17:13
MohammadAGlol17:13
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MohammadAGachipa, only source packages available?17:16
achipaMohammadAG: what ?17:16
OkropNickwhat process should I kill to restart calendar application and reminder daemon on N900?17:16
MohammadAGachipa, I can only apt-get source, not install17:17
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achipaMohammadAG: you apt-getting it wrong... it has binaries for lucid and maverick17:17
achipadid you add the ppa line correctly ?17:18
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MohammadAGof course lol17:18
ThreeMhi there17:18
ThreeMis the kernel power from the devel-testing ready to use productive?!17:18
MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/forumnokia-fn-ppa-maverick.list17:18
MohammadAGdeb http://ppa.launchpad.net/forumnokia/fn-ppa/ubuntu maverick main17:18
MohammadAGdeb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/forumnokia/fn-ppa/ubuntu maverick main17:18
ThreeMor is it better to use the stable one?117:18
MohammadAGdepends17:19
MohammadAGdo you want usb hostmode?17:19
ThreeMmaybe17:19
achipaMohammadAG: apt-cache policy libqtm-sensors17:19
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achipawhat does it say ?17:19
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MohammadAGoh17:19
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MohammadAGyou used that naming scheme17:20
MohammadAGUbuntu repos use the name qt-mobility17:20
MohammadAGGet:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/forumnokia/fn-ppa/ubuntu/ maverick/main libqtm-connectivity amd64 1:1.2.0~tp-0fn~maverick0 [137kB]17:20
MohammadAGlibqtm-connectivity is there17:20
achipaMohammadAG: yeah, no "firmware legacy" in naming there17:20
MohammadAGso it's not an upstream bug achipa  :P17:20
achipano, libqtm-connectivity I fixed :)17:21
MohammadAGah17:21
achipathe .h-s in the -dev missing are the upstream thingy17:21
MohammadAGheh17:21
MohammadAGthey all failed :P17:21
MohammadAG trying to overwrite '/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/features/mobility.prf', which is also in package qtmobility-dev 1.0.2-2ubuntu0.117:21
MohammadAGyou should really use Conflicts: :P17:22
achipaMohammadAG: yeah, those were originally lucid packages, which had no mobility anyway17:22
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MohammadAGhmm17:26
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MohammadAGachipa, any ideas on Cannot mix incompatible Qt library (version 0x40700) with this library (version 0x1040700)?17:26
achipaMohammadAG: weird numbers...17:27
achipa(as in the 1 in the second)17:27
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DocScrutinizerThreeM: probably PK of devel repo is best17:29
MohammadAGhmm17:29
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ThreeMi hope :)17:30
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vltRhello, doeas anybody know what file in nitdroid.com/downloads is the latest one? im downloading popov now17:31
DocScrutinizerLOL, has Mr Flop uttered some new threat? since 60min, shares are going down again17:31
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GAN900Hehe17:35
GAN900Everybody else just noticed.17:35
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: drop some more and I buy some...17:38
ketasshares are going down, eh?17:38
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trxhe probabbly just walked in nokia building and someone saw him17:39
DocScrutinizernah, had a sharp ditch to BID 6.71, after high at BID 6.83. Now recovered to BID 6.7817:40
hardakerHow do you get a package out of extras testing?17:40
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hardakerI have a, for example, 0.5-1 and publishing 0.6-1 now leaves 2 in testing.17:40
hardakerdo I need to add a 0.5-2 and not promote it?17:41
hardakeror is there some other magic?17:41
DocScrutinizerditch happened @ 15:45..16:15 CET, so he probably came out of Nokia building17:41
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ThreeMhttp://i.imgur.com/S82FY.jpg17:42
DocScrutinizerhardaker: aiui you can't get anything out of testing17:43
chem|stketas: London ... 6,77 EUR 16.02.201117:43
chem|st16:23:05 -19,09%17:43
AppiahThreeM: just need a microwave17:43
Appiahthen you can live there17:43
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ThreeMhehe17:43
hardakerDocScrutinizer: but that would mean it would grow infinetly with packages that never got certain versions promoted to extras?17:43
Appiahna j/k , canned food will do17:43
trxelop has left the building gentlemen17:44
hardakerOr, more appropriately, I really mean "out of the waiting to be promoted list" not necessarily out of the repo itself.17:44
nid0you can just thumb a package down yourself17:44
DocScrutinizereven when promoting to extras, the version in extras-testing stays there17:44
nid0if you're the maintainer, itll drop from testing17:44
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: lifeview tells a raise from yesterday17:45
hardakernid0: Ahh...   I didn't try that.  I'll give that a go.17:45
chem|stat least in london17:45
DocScrutinizerchem|st: yep, since yesterday the rating got at ~+2% at max, ~10:30 today17:46
DocScrutinizernow life Realtime L&S Indikation is at -0%17:47
DocScrutinizer+-017:47
DocScrutinizeraccording to intraday rating Flop entered Nokia building 9:15, had lunch out at 11:45, and left at 15:45 CET17:49
chem|st+1.2% london +0.6% NY 5 minutes ago17:49
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.finanzen.net/realtimekurs/Nokia17:49
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DocScrutinizerBID = ASK = 6.77 LOL - you can trade for free ;-D17:52
DocScrutinizerI'm just waiting for BID > ASK    X-P17:54
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ketasgamblers17:59
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DocScrutinizerketas: if your bank would offer you to get $1.10 for 1 unit of your currency, and also pay $1 for 1.10 of your currency, what would you do ;-D18:03
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DocScrutinizers/pay/you pay/18:03
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: ketas: if your bank would offer you to get $1.10 for 1 unit of your currency, and also you pay $1 for 1.10 of your currency, what would you do ;-D18:03
BCMMi wonder if that bot takes regular expressions...18:04
BCMMs/./test/18:04
infobotBCMM meant: i wonder if that bot takes regular expressionstest..18:04
DocScrutinizerBCMM: it doesn't18:04
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: that's definitely a good thing.18:05
DocScrutinizers/t/TTT/g18:05
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: BCMM: iTTT doesn'TTT18:05
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DocScrutinizerand yeah, ............................ s/./................................./g works, but gets truncated eventually18:06
keriohmm18:09
kerios/./......................./18:09
kerioaw18:09
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kerios/aw/......................./18:09
infobotkerio meant: .......................18:09
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kerios/......../............................../g18:10
kerioit's not exponential!18:10
BCMMkerio: i doubt it will correct a correction18:10
Hoxzerstop regular expressing yourself!18:10
DocScrutinizerdude!18:10
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DocScrutinizers/!/!!/18:10
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: dude!!18:10
DocScrutinizers/!//18:10
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: dude18:10
kerioi see18:11
kerios/./.........................../g18:11
keriocome on, . is any character18:11
keriostupid regexps18:11
BCMMkerio: i just tested that...18:11
DocScrutinizerNO regex!!18:11
BCMMit doesn't take regexps18:11
BCMMi even tested by trying to match .18:11
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DocScrutinizerit's probably built around strcmp18:12
DocScrutinizercheck ibot source if you want to know the details18:13
DocScrutinizers/ /\/18:14
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: check\ibot source if you want to know the details18:14
BCMMi wonder if it likes escape sequences. \n18:14
BCMMs/wonder/\n/18:14
infobotBCMM meant: i \n if it likes escape sequences. \n18:14
BCMMah well, nm18:14
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DocScrutinizer s///g is the most advanced thing you can do with it18:15
ketass/a/b/18:15
ketass/b/a/18:15
ketasdoh18:16
DocScrutinizeraah I forgot it clears buffers after some 10s18:16
DocScrutinizerand s/ obviously doesn't get buffered18:16
DocScrutinizerif done correctly18:17
DocScrutinizers/if/when18:17
DocScrutinizers/if/when/18:17
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: s/when/when18:17
DocScrutinizerpun18:17
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ketaspunpunpun18:18
ketass/pun//18:18
infobotketas meant: punpun18:18
ketaswhat18:18
ketass/what//18:18
infobotketas meant:18:18
ketasyes18:19
DocScrutinizerlol18:19
ketasi meant nothing18:19
ketas18:19
DocScrutinizers//wtf/18:19
ketass/ /  /18:19
infobotketas meant:18:19
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ketasDocScrutinizer: that isn't usually as easy as getting 10 cents for free18:20
ketass/10 cents/.10/18:20
infobotketas meant: DocScrutinizer: that isn't usually as easy as getting .10 for free18:20
DocScrutinizerketas: that's usually very unusual18:21
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frals_w00t_: you in HEL?18:25
w00t_yes18:25
frals_meego meetup!18:25
DocScrutinizeroooh fun18:25
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DocScrutinizer¡18:26
ketass/hel/hell/18:26
ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/16/data_tariffs/ <-- or option 3... users drastically cut back on data usage or even *gasp* cancel data usage all togheter...18:26
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SpeedEvilthree is still offering a truly unlimited data tarrif.18:27
DocScrutinizerWTF are you going nuts over there?18:27
SpeedEvilThough only if you buy a phone, you can't get it with a SIM.18:27
SpeedEvilMany providers have slashed their caps.18:27
SpeedEvilDown to 500M in many cases.18:27
DocScrutinizerBLAERGH18:28
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ketashere they just went unlimited18:28
DocScrutinizerI get 500M for €10 and 5G for €2518:28
SpeedEvilI'm on 1G/mo - for 4 euro/month. (locked in for 6 months)18:28
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SpeedEvilI just bought an Ipad plan, for 15.99/mo that will get me 10G/mo18:29
ruskie2g/mo/~12eur18:29
DocScrutinizerthat's still best tariff I ever heard of18:29
ruskieor I could get 20gb/mo for 18eur18:29
baryudimplease help install java on n90018:29
SpeedEvilNo, I don't have a Ipad - I'm hoping it'll work on a n900 with duct tape.18:29
ketasunlimited €8 here18:29
SpeedEvilketas: Where are you?18:30
ketasthe speed is limited, however18:30
ketasto 1.5Mbit/s18:30
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* SpeedEvil sighs.18:30
ketasin estonia18:30
SpeedEvilThe reason I bought a 15G/mo plan is so that I can get my ISP to fix my DSL line.18:30
SpeedEvilWithout worrying about it going down.18:30
ketasmost expensive operator around18:31
SpeedEvilAt the moment I'm doing wierd stuff like taking the line down for several hours around midnight, so it does not retrain to low.18:31
ketaswhat?18:31
ketasdidn't understand18:31
SpeedEvilketas: Would it be stereotyping to suspect that the number of people with data capable devices in estonia may be rather low?18:31
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that'S considered contraproductive18:32
SpeedEvilketas: My DSL like falls over around midnight every day. I'm trying to get my operator to fix it, which may involve some days or weeks of reduced connectivity.18:32
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer?18:32
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DocScrutinizeryou should make it train when there's low noise of crosstalking wires, so the others will adjust to lower bandwidth when going online18:33
ketasSpeedEvil: don't know how low18:33
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Doesn't work.18:34
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: If I train at those times, the modem syncs at 160K, if it syncs at all.18:34
ketaswhat kind of adsl is that18:34
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DocScrutinizerthat's weird18:34
ketasi have adsl2+18:34
ketas16/118:34
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Then my line has a 'maximum stable rate' of 135K, and is limited to that for the next 3 days, even if it's synced to 2500K during the rest of the day18:35
DocScrutinizerWTF?!18:35
SpeedEvilThey ratel-limit the packets going into your connection to the maximum stable rate, to avoid congestion on the larst leg.18:35
SpeedEvilThis rate-limit is only updated after several days.18:35
DocScrutinizerincredible crap18:36
merlin1991ISP screws you :D18:36
ketaswhat's it's official speed18:36
SpeedEvilTo add to the fun - the rate limit is not applied by my ISP, but by the organisation they pay for their transit to my ecxchange - so they can't turn it off.18:36
nid0SpeedEvil: you're in the uk arent you?18:36
SpeedEvilketas: 'up to 8M'18:36
nid0if you're on a non-llu connection, you can ask BT to manually increase the limit18:37
DocScrutinizer"up to" - the BS of the decade18:37
SpeedEvilnid0: That doesn't help.18:37
SpeedEvilnid0: As I can't actually talk to BT18:37
ketasi can actually get my 16/118:37
DocScrutinizerwhen I buy sth, I don't want "up to", I demand "at least"18:37
nid0SpeedEvil: run their speed tester, then call them direct and reference it18:37
rmrfchikis there way to read sdhc class directly from card?18:37
nid0if your ip profile is lower than the current sync speed of the line, they can clear the currently set profile for you18:37
SpeedEvilnid0: BT (broadband) are seperate now from BT (central), who is seperate from the engineers that go out, who are now OpenREach.18:38
SpeedEvilnid0: Sure.18:38
nid0SpeedEvil: i'm fully aware of that.18:38
SpeedEvilnid0: I need to do this every day, at 1AM.18:38
nid0regardless of who your ISP is, BT can adjust your ip profile for you18:38
SpeedEvilnid0: But it gets reset when the line next retrains.18:38
SpeedEvilnid0: Also - BT central won't talk to end-users.18:38
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SpeedEvilnid0: Most of the time they won't even talk to openreach!!!18:39
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nid0well, theres your problem, but with the line up BT will remove the profile limit for you without needing to allow the 3 days for it to adjust yourself18:39
nid0I know this, because I18:39
nid0had to get them to do it several times for me where i used to live18:39
SpeedEvilThey remove the profile limit, and it is then reimposed when the line retrains back down.18:39
SpeedEvilIt's not an artificial limit when it's training down - it's getting 3-4dB margin at 160K18:40
DocScrutinizerspam them with calls, so they rethink this idiotic policy18:40
nid0Well, it's whether you want to persist in calling them to have the profile removed so you can get decent speeds during the day once the line's synced back to a decent speed18:41
nid0until they get round to fixing it, that is18:41
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SpeedEvilnid0: I've tried - BT wholesale will not talk to end users.18:47
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SpeedEvilnid0: When were you doing this - policies have firmed up in the last couple of years - according to the engineer who was here yesterday.18:47
keriomy adsl2+ modem is at 20476 kbps / 1020 kbps now :D18:48
nid0SpeedEvil: you need to speak to BT's faults line, as it is (or at least was a year and a half or so ago when i had an almost identical problem to you) considered a fault with the line, which you do have through them, rather than anything to do with the actual net connection service18:48
nid0I had almost exactly the same problem you're currently having due to a fault at the exchange, at totally random times there'd be a huge burst of noise on the line that would drop the line's profile all the way down to 125k from like 6000, Demon obviously couldnt help but BT just told me after the line resynced at a decent speed to run their speed tester then give them a call, and they'd reset18:49
nid0the profile for me. it at least gave me proper speeds back until the line next cocked up18:49
nid0whether or not theyre still willing to do that I wouldnt know, but itd seem strange to utterly refuse to do so when they obviously have the capability and previously would do so when there was a clear problem with intermittent line noise and their profiling18:50
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lcukwhich bot does regex fixing?18:55
lcuks/bot/ircbot18:55
RST38h[lcuk] wanted to say 'which ircbot does regex fixing?'18:56
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lcuklol18:56
nid0SpeedEvil: For what it's worth, there's at least a thread on the BT forum from less than 2 weeks ago where a guy managed to get his IP profile manually reset by emailing the board's mods:18:56
lcuks/lol/laugh out loud/18:56
infobotlcuk meant: laugh out loud18:56
nid0http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-in-Home/IP-Profile-is-there-a-procedure-for-getting-it-reset/m-p/11181918:56
lcuk:D18:56
lcukahhahahhhh18:56
RST38hthe last slash makes the difference18:57
lcukyes, I gather now.18:57
SpeedEvilOdd.18:57
lcukis infbot a supybot?19:00
lcukinfobot19:00
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SpeedEvilnid0: Also - that's BT broadband - which may still have somewhat better access to things than other ISPs, though they are not supposed to.19:02
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ketaskerio: damn you19:03
slonopotamushow i disable scratchbox hijacking of tools (perl)?19:03
ketaskerio: however i would want my upstream to go up19:04
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slonopotamusSCRATCHBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl ?19:05
kerioketas: and that's because i have a 20/119:05
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ketaskerio: in private house i can't get faster now but elsewhere 100/20 is possible, even ftth which i dream about19:06
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ketasmaybe they raise downstream in future19:07
* ShadowJK is <3 ftth19:07
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ShadowJKMostly because of the latency and packet loss (or absence of it)19:08
ShadowJKand 0 jitter19:08
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ketasi want ftth19:12
ketasbut not sure when and if19:13
ketasneeds overhead line19:13
nid0I dont seem to be getting ftth or even fttc for a long long time :<19:13
* nid0 curses BT19:13
kerioftth?19:13
keriofttc?19:13
ketasfttb19:13
ketasto the brain19:13
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ketasftth is fiber to the home19:13
ketasc is somewhere near19:14
ShadowJKWe started our own company for ftth :P19:14
ketaswtf?19:14
ketasreally?19:14
ShadowJKyeah19:15
ketaswhere19:15
ShadowJK.fi19:15
ketaspulling overhead lines?19:15
ketas:)19:15
ShadowJKWell it's a co-op actually, not a full fledged for-profit company19:15
ketasto private houses?19:16
ShadowJKand companies, and government buildings19:16
ShadowJKunderground lines19:16
ketas:(19:17
ShadowJKoverhead is high maintenance19:17
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ketasoverhead fiber, i imagine19:17
ShadowJKoverhead anything19:17
ketaswell i have phone line overhead19:18
ketashad problems, right, line is over the road19:18
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ShadowJKyou need a guy running around with a chainsaw culling trees before they fall over the lines19:19
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ketaspower lines are overhead too19:19
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ketasit's fucking expensive to dig them to the ground19:19
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ShadowJKwhen you stick them underground, it's mostly people with excavators you need to worry about, and even then if you had accurately registered the location of your cable the excavator dude pays up when he breaks it19:20
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ketassure19:20
ketasstill expensive19:20
ketasthat's why they are on the air still19:20
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ShadowJKThe fibre cable was dug down with this knife-looking thing19:21
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ketasi've seen such devices19:21
ketasinteresting19:21
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ShadowJKso it didn't require scooping up ground, putting down cable, closing trench.19:22
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ShadowJKIt really all started about 5 years ago when this dude was almost running around door to door asking people to sign their interest in ftth19:24
ketaswe have quite rocky soil here19:24
ketassadly19:24
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ShadowJKthere was a guy with a big excavator and a sturdier knife/pole thing running ahead, it pushed up rocks pretty good19:25
ketasi mean there's layer of rock19:25
ketasnear the ground19:25
ShadowJKah19:25
ketascan it cut that?19:25
SpeedEvilDepends how hard it is19:25
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ShadowJK:)19:25
SpeedEvilIf it's a layer of loose boulders - perhaps19:26
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ketasit's not loose19:26
Proteousif it's a layer of obsidian you need a diamond pickaxe19:27
Proteousbut then you are protected from creapers blowing up your fiber line19:27
ShadowJKit also helped take-up that telcos were showing signs of pulling out, and replacing people's phonelines with stationary gsm tablephones19:27
ShadowJKadsl obviously doesn't work on that :)19:27
Proteousno one here plays minecraft?19:27
Sc0rpiuswell not me, I don't really understand why minecraft is fun to other people19:28
ketasumm19:28
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ketaslike lines replaced with fix gsm?19:28
ShadowJKyes19:29
ketasprobably bad lines?19:29
ketasold, crappy19:29
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ccookeProteous: minecraft will one day become an excellent game, I'm sure. Once they add a game to the rather nice engine :-)19:29
ShadowJKtelco fiber ends in a fiber to pots converter outside my house19:29
ShadowJKso not that old19:29
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Proteousccooke: bah, it's fun now!19:29
Shadikkaccooke: No, now you're talking about Crysis :P19:29
ccookeShadikka: *laugh*19:29
ketasShadowJK: why to pull out then?19:30
ccookeProteous: a lot of people seem to think that. Right now, I start it up every few weeks to see what's changed and if they added a reason to play it yet.19:30
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ccookeProteous: I mess around for a couple of hours, then decide I can wait.19:30
Proteousccooke: it's like a big set of lego to me19:30
ShadowJKtheir overhead lines too costly to maintain they claim19:30
ccookeProteous: The problem with it is it's like a big set of level with *grinding*. And I don't see why I should waste my precious time with grinding :-)19:31
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ccookeProteous: when they've actually added a reason for you to build stuff - trade, better monsters, whatever - then it will be fun for me to play.19:32
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ccookeas it is now, I'll play it for a few hours, enjoy the pretty, then conclude that I really should take up 3d modelling again. Then procrastinate about that and go back to playing Dwarf Fortress :-)19:32
ProteousDF...19:32
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ccooke(and hey, I can play dwarf fortress on the n900, now)19:33
Proteousheh\19:33
ShadowJKketas, besides, I think it's near universal telco policy to do whatever you can to piss off users :-)19:33
ccookeWell, sort of. Via ssh to my server, I can19:33
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ccooke(and technically I'm not using an n900 atm, but that's not the point; I'd *prefer* to be, after all :-)19:34
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lcukccooke, \oare you still hiding away in the bowels of python code?19:35
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ccookelcuk: Nope. Ended up doing huge amounts of ruby for a while with some horrendous hours19:36
ketasShadowJK: why should they want to piss off users? users can walk away19:36
ccookelcuk: then work decided to royally fuck with me, so I made it clear I wasn't going to do any of that any more.19:37
ShadowJKold telcos think users have no choice :)19:37
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ccookelcuk: right now I'm beating my head against a horrifically broken server farm and *much* more relaxed19:37
ccookelcuk: how about you?19:37
lcukbashing head against daily meego images, trying to make it usable19:38
ccookeNice. I still haven't had time to try meego at all.19:38
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ketasShadowJK: well here i indeed have only one telco providing me adsl19:39
rm_worklcuk: lol, well good luck with that19:39
rm_workwould love to see a meego image eventually that is usable day to day19:39
ketasShadowJK: but it doesn't screw me19:39
ccookeI hope it stabilises to the point of getting some decent devices out this year, though19:39
lcukrm_work, I pick it up and use it every day now19:39
ccookelcuk: there are at least a tablet or two expected out this year, IIRC?19:39
rm_worklcuk: i heard you can't receive calls unless you have the phone app open? lol19:39
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lcukccooke, I have a meego tablet (lenovo ideapad)19:40
rm_workor, do you mean on the tablet thing they gave out in ireland? or something else entirely19:40
rm_workah19:40
rm_workyeah, the tablet thing19:40
lcukit runs handset nicely :) looks a bit odd holding a 10" slate to ear though19:40
rm_worklol19:40
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ketasShadowJK: i pay ~31 € for iptv, adsl and phone19:41
ccookelcuk: *grin*19:41
lcukrm_work, the N900 adaption is catching up at a tremendous rate - speed increases and kernel adaption is solidifying19:41
ShadowJKcheaper than my stuffs then :19:41
lcukand stskeeps mentioned today that once the harpfp builds come through the cooker we should see even more speed bumps19:42
ccookelcuk: how is it compared to maemo?19:42
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ccooke(now)19:42
lcukccooke, how is what?19:42
lcukor rather, which parts do you seek comparison of19:43
ketasShadowJK: a vod too19:43
lcukI miss user apps19:43
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rm_workyeah :/19:43
rm_workbut looking forward to alien dalvik?19:43
rm_workor is that not going to be available except through OEM?19:43
ShadowJKI need more ethernet cable to hook up iptv :(19:43
lcukI saw vasvlad ported omweather though which made me smile19:43
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ketasi don19:44
ccookelcuk: hmm. How responsive are the UI and basic apps?19:44
ketasShadowJK: i don't use it either, now19:44
ccookelcuk: that's really the speed that *matters* to a phone: How long you have to wait to make a phone call or read an SMS19:44
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ketasShadowJK: it's having 100 channels now iirc19:44
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ccooke(it's one of the ways that maemo on the n900 is *still* better than most of the Android phones I've tried, for instance :-/19:45
lcukccooke, I have not tried my sim in it.  Others are obviously working at that19:45
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ketasccooke: it's faster?19:46
ketasi want n900 too19:46
ketasquite expensive thing19:46
ccookeketas: about the same speed to get to the phone apps. the n900 has a slightly simpler dialer which is a touch easier to use. During calls, the n900 is more predictable (not locking at the wrong moment)19:47
ccookealso, the n900 has much better phone hardware than my current HTC Desire Z. Much better speakers, better microphone...19:48
ketashahaha, because that19:48
ketas's nokia19:48
ketassad if nokia hw goes away19:48
ShadowJKN810 speakers are much better than N900 :(19:49
ketas:(19:49
ketasmy gf got old n770 for free19:49
Proteousa non wsod version?19:50
ketasunder the battery, it says it's made in estonia, you don't see that this days19:50
ShadowJKMy N810 says made in Finland :)19:50
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ccookeShadowJK: really? I felt they're about par19:52
ketasProteous: what you mean?19:52
ketasright19:52
Proteouswhite screen of death19:53
Proteoushappens to a large percent of n770s after a while19:53
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ccooke(the n900 is the best phone I've had in years. It annoys me that I don't currently use one; yes, there are things Android does better, but...)19:53
ketasstill working i guess19:53
ProteousI guess if it's still working then it must have super secrit wsod protection :)19:53
ketaswhy you don't use n900?19:54
ketasnow19:54
Proteousit doesn't fit in the packet of his new slim fitting trousers19:54
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Proteouss/packet/pocket/19:54
infobotProteous meant: it doesn't fit in the pocket of his new slim fitting trousers19:54
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newbie007I think maemo is light years ahead of android,, instead of a repository android has a "market place" perhaps I can purchase a terminal app19:56
ketaspacket doesn't fit into pocket19:56
Proteoussneakernet FTW19:56
ketasn900 is quite a brick actually, yes19:56
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ketasi have 5800 currently19:56
ccookenewbie007: yes and no. Android is *much* more polished, and it has a better app community. Part of that is that it supports paid apps, sure.19:57
* ketas polishes ccooke19:57
ccookeThere are apps on Android I wish I'd had on the n900... although conversely, some of the n900 apps are better than anything I've found on Android19:57
ketaswhat apps were on android?19:57
newbie007angry birds19:58
ketasdone for n90019:58
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newbie007I want gnumeric, awesome ti, nes etc...19:58
ShadowJKgpodder19:58
dnearyHow's google docs on Android?19:58
newbie007really what I want is to put Maemo on my Nook (e-book reader) I do not have/want an android phone19:59
dnearySucked last time I tried it19:59
dnearyBut that was a while ago19:59
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ccookeketas: Stuff I use a lot that doesn't really exist on the n900: The kindle app (although I'll probably grab a kindle device evntually), some decent (offline) google reader apps, more seamless Dropbox support, various tools that help me GM D&D.20:00
ccookeStuff for playing and recording Go.20:00
ccookeThere's also a whole class of locational things that work better if you have a magnetometer20:00
ccookeThings I seriously miss from the n900... The absolute best sleep-cycle tracker alarm clock I've used. Better terminal (goes with the better keyboard!), I generally preferred the browsing experience (although the new android phone is faster, so handles flash better)20:02
ccookethe seamlessness of network transitions on the n900 was *very* good20:02
ccooke(oh, and: I never found a twitter app I really liked on the n900, although there were plenty of apps and that's more than likely just me)20:03
newbie007you guys are using maemo in past tense,, is maemo dead ?20:03
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ccookenewbie007: I'm using it in the past tense because I don't currently have a usable maemo phone20:04
newbie007did you brick it?20:04
Proteous...20:04
ketasmaybe hourse ate it20:04
Proteousdidn't you read, his pants are too tight to pocket it20:05
Proteouspants, trousers whatever20:05
ccookenope. usb connector. For the third time. Actually, my *wife's* usb connector. I had a phone upgrade due, so grabbed an android phone to see if it's improved a bit.20:05
ccookeand let my wife steal my n90020:05
ketasyour wife has usb connector?20:05
Proteousdoesn't yours?20:05
Proteousif not you should return her to the factory20:06
ccookeketas: several.20:06
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ketasumm what you mean usb connector, did it broke?20:06
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Proteoushappens, some people like to swing them around by the cable20:06
ketashahaha20:06
ccookeketas: the n900 has a known weakness in its usb connector. It's fine if you are careful, but a bit of bad luck or careless use...20:07
ccookebasically, the only thing hlding the connector on is solder.20:07
ketasbad bad bad20:07
Proteousthey have changed the design20:07
ketasis it possible to fix?20:07
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Proteousbut early phones had the weak connector20:07
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ketasso new n900 probably doesn't have this weakness?20:08
Proteousketas: open it up and add some hot glue?20:08
ketasif i buy it now20:08
Proteousyeah20:08
ketasno i mean if it does broke20:08
Proteousoh20:08
Proteousdepends on how good you are at surface mount soldering20:08
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ccookeProteous: I didn't hear they'd changed the design.20:08
ketasdoes it break pcb traces?20:08
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ccookeProteous: that's good to know20:08
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ccookeketas: they can be repaired.20:08
ccookeI'm just too busy to get around to it :-/20:09
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piggzProteous: presumably, when mine got a new main board, it should have the new design connector?20:10
ProteousI would assume so20:10
ketaspiggz: how come you got new main board?20:11
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DocScrutinizerProteous: changed design? citation needed!20:12
Proteousyeah, I'm looking for one :)20:12
ProteousI remember seeing it!20:12
Proteousbeen a while though20:12
piggzketas: it was always crashing...not a s/w issue, maybe a faulty mem chip or something20:12
piggzthanfully, since i got it back it hasnt crashed once20:13
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piggzeven with all the buggy cssu goodness ;)20:13
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ccookeToday, I have learned something interesting: http://wojtek-soldierbear.weebly.com/20:13
ccooke(Bah, this is the wrong channel for that. But hell, it's interesting anyway)20:14
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Jaffapiggz: Oh, what bugs? Reported and logged under http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs ?20:17
piggzJaffa: i was joking...i havnt found anything, its awesome! ;)20:17
piggzcant wait for that fast rotation if possible20:18
* Jaffa 's looking forward to that. Was thinking of trying to implement it when thp popped up with his PoC20:19
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* GAN900 still hasn't upgraded back to PR1.3.20:23
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* ZogG snorts ccooke 20:29
Sc0rpiushow much did you pay for it20:29
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ccookeZogG: hmm?20:32
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javispedroJaffa, piggz: anywhere I could read about this fast rotation PoC?20:34
piggzjavispedro: youtube20:35
piggznot sure about any patches floating around20:35
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* javispedro tried once, removed the animation but I didn't saw much improvement...20:36
ZogGccooke, http://www.nerdnirvana.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/so-much-cocaine.jpg20:37
tripz0lol20:38
ZogGwebos is niiicie20:38
ccookeZogG: *laugh*20:39
Sc0rpiushehe20:39
ccookeZogG: I keep meaning to try webos. What's it like?20:39
Sc0rpiusI guess ccooke is not from Coke. I once met a guy named Anthony Cooke20:39
Sc0rpiusso that must be his last name20:39
Sc0rpiusI meant "coke"20:39
jacekowskijavispedro: fast rotation isn't going to happen because of slow interface to lcd20:39
Sc0rpiusthe drug, not the drink20:40
Venemo_N900jacekowski: you know this for a fact?20:41
Sc0rpiusI was wondering the same20:41
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jacekowskiVenemo_N900: i know for a fact that you can only push so much data trough interface20:42
jacekowskiVenemo_N900: so if you can come up with nice idea of making it look good with lower bandwidth20:43
jacekowskithat would be nice20:43
ZogGccooke haven't tried saw video review20:45
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ZogGSc0rpius actually the name of drink has same roots as drug20:46
ZogGand once there was little bit coke in coke20:46
Sc0rpiushmm20:46
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ZogGSc0rpius, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Coca_.E2.80.94_cocaine20:47
Sc0rpiuslet's see20:48
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sgevhi21:39
sgevanyone using jmirc on nokia21:39
sgevhow do you identify  to a nick21:39
sgevor can anyone suggest a nice irc client thats secure enough for nokia21:40
SpeedEvilxchat works well for me21:40
sgevdoes it support identifying to a nick ?21:41
mecesgev yes21:41
sgevalso is it possible to use encryption or something21:41
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slonopotamussgev: /msg nickserv id <nick> <password>21:42
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slonopotamusall the rest are just wrappers aroung this21:43
Sc0rpiusactually /nickserv works21:43
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Sc0rpiusand i prefer using that, maybe one day NickServ/ChanServ is down and some smartass gets the nick and the passwords people send him21:43
sgevslonopotamus: for jmirc or xchat21:43
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slonopotamussgev: for ANY irc client21:44
slonopotamussgev: just send private message to nickserv with that text21:44
Sc0rpiusmaybe he wants an IRC client that has automation for nick identification (a script)21:44
slonopotamusSc0rpius: and what do you think /nickserv does?21:45
sgevah ok21:45
Sc0rpius/nickserv is not a PRIVMSG21:45
sgevthanks21:45
slonopotamusSc0rpius: and what do you think /nickserv is?21:45
Sc0rpiusit's equivalent to a QUOTE NICKSERV21:45
Sc0rpiusit's different21:45
Sc0rpiusI mean it's equivalent for end users21:45
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Sc0rpiusbut if someday some guy makes /nick NickServ21:45
Sc0rpiusbecause NickServ is down21:45
Sc0rpiushe won't get passwords sent via /nickserv21:46
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Sc0rpiustype: /quote nickserv help21:46
Sc0rpiusthat will send a NICKSERV HELP21:46
Sc0rpiusif you type: /msg nickserv help21:46
Sc0rpiusthat will send a PRIVMSG NICKSERV HELP21:46
Sc0rpiusI'm just paranoid, /msg nickserv, no way.21:47
slonopotamusSc0rpius: and why you think that Alice won't get your /quote if she changes nick to nickserv?21:47
Sc0rpiusbecause it's not a PRIVMSG21:47
sgevhanks21:48
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Sc0rpiusbecause I think in the implementation of the daemon, and actually I'm almost sure, the communication between the daemon and the nickserv service through NICKSERV raw messages are direct21:48
ruskieor you could just sent the password as login password to the server ;)21:48
Sc0rpiusyou know how many people21:48
Sc0rpiusgets the nick nicksrv waiting for you to typo?21:48
ruskiethus avoiding all of this ;)21:48
Sc0rpiusor nckserv21:48
jacekowskiSc0rpius: on freenode /msg nickserv is as safe as /quote nickserv21:49
Sc0rpiusyeah but /msg nicksrv is not21:49
Sc0rpiusand /nicksrv gets a nice error21:49
ruskieor just send the pass at connection ;)21:49
jacekowskidon't make a mistakes21:49
ruskieserver pass++21:49
jacekowskiwhat stops you from making mistake like adding space in front of command21:49
jacekowskiso you end up wit21:49
jacekowski /quote nickserv identify password21:50
jacekowskiand everybody sees it21:50
ruskieor use a script or some other method of automating it...21:50
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Sc0rpiuswell I still prefer /nickserv, it's faster, less keys to press21:51
ruskietry /ns ;)21:51
ruskiesame thing ;)21:52
ruskiejust shorter21:52
Sc0rpiusand it's more secure since it's a direct to NickServ@services.server21:52
Sc0rpius:)21:52
Sc0rpiuswell yeah21:52
ruskiewell nickserv.pl works as well21:52
Sc0rpiusI learned something /ns21:52
Sc0rpiusthanks21:52
Sc0rpiusno more /nickserv for me!21:52
Sc0rpius:)21:52
ruskieand as said... sending pass as server password at connecting... works as well ;)21:52
Sc0rpiusreally?21:53
Sc0rpiuslemme try that21:53
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Sc0rpiusnah that didn't work21:54
ruskieworked for me so far21:54
Sc0rpiusI had to identify manually21:54
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Sc0rpiusbut I'm happy with /ns now21:55
ruskiehttp://blog.freenode.net/2005/08/21:55
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ruskiesee that blog post21:55
Arkenoiquite strange, i've got email with vcal invitation, and modest does not show it at all. no attachment, no indication there is something besides text. that sucks!21:55
ruskieAs a convenience to our users, you can now identify to NickServ as you connect to the network. Just connect with your registered nickname and specify your NickServ password as a server password. We hope this will make identifying to NickServ easier21:56
ruskiemaybe you're not passing the pw correctly or something?21:57
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ruskiewith irssi I know it's /connect server port pass21:57
Sc0rpiusI do, but I'm using chat.freenode.net as server21:57
ruskieshouldn't matter21:57
Sc0rpiusmaybe I have to specify a real server21:57
Sc0rpiuslemme try again21:57
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Sc0rpiusI think it works I just think it doesn't work21:59
Sc0rpius    » Logged in as: Sc0rpius21:59
Sc0rpiusit seems it works21:59
ruskiehehe21:59
Sc0rpiusno I have to disable my script21:59
Sc0rpiusok let's see now21:59
Sc0rpiusI'll get banned with server hammering22:00
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Sc0rpiusnope, I'm not logged in22:00
Sc0rpiusdoesn't work for me22:00
ruskiehmm22:00
ruskieinteresting...22:00
Sc0rpiusidentifying manually22:00
ruskiemight try to bug the fine folk in #freenode ;)22:00
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Sc0rpiusit's ok, I have a script anyway that does it for me22:01
DocScrutinizeruser:password22:01
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DocScrutinizeriirc22:02
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Sc0rpiusohhh22:02
Sc0rpiusthat changes everything22:02
ruskieI thought that was only for tor22:02
Sc0rpiusI should send that as server password?22:02
ruskietry it22:02
DocScrutinizeryep22:02
Sc0rpiusI'll try later, I think I'm getting banned in any moment now22:02
ruskielol22:02
ruskiedoubtful22:02
DocScrutinizernah22:02
slonopotamusdoes https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ EVER get cleaned?22:03
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pupnik_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v2xnl6LwJE  Bad.  Ass.  Optical Illusion.22:03
ruskieslonopotamus, hmm well nothing from 2009 there...22:04
ruskieso I'm assuming it does...22:04
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slonopotamusruskie: but lots from summer 201022:06
pupnik_worth a download22:07
Sc0rpiusthat's the Escher's Waterfall22:08
Sc0rpiusif you see it from the side, you'll see why it works22:08
Sc0rpiushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Escher_Waterfall.jpg22:09
Sc0rpiusthis is the original picture, but if you see the structure from the side, it's actually downhill22:09
pupnik_yes i know22:09
pupnik_now build it and make the water fall from 'top' to bottom22:10
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DocScrutinizeranyway for xchat: http://toxin.jottit.com/xchat_connect#1122:11
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DocScrutinizermaybe also of interest: http://toxin.jottit.com/freenode_nickserv_commands22:12
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Sc0rpiushaha the water is not coming from the "bottom"22:13
Sc0rpiusit just looks that way22:13
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pupnik_Sc0rpius: can you explain it?22:15
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MohammadAGalterego, ping22:28
DocScrutinizerwhat's to explain with it? it's a 2d representation that doesn't make sense when you try to extrapolate it into 3d with usual rules22:28
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Sc0rpiuswell if you try to visualize it without the vertical posts (or delete them somehow) you can see the real structure22:29
DocScrutinizeremphasis on *usual*22:29
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Sc0rpiusthe damn vertical posts look connected from that angle and your brain deceives you22:29
DocScrutinizerthere is no real structure22:29
DocScrutinizerit's a 2D painting22:29
Sc0rpiusyou saw the video?22:29
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Sc0rpiushe wants us to explain the video22:30
pupnik_Sc0rpius: you only think you understand it22:30
pupnik_that's because you understand so little22:30
pupnik_DocScrutinizer: so the water is computer animation?22:31
pupnik_i understand how the structure can be flat on the floor22:31
pupnik_with a mild incline for the water22:31
DocScrutinizerumm, sorry. No idea what you're talking bout22:32
Sc0rpiusDocScrutinizer hasn't watched the video22:32
pupnik_but the 'falling' bit makes no sense22:32
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slonopotamusmeh22:40
slonopotamusi hate scratchbox22:41
DocScrutinizermeh, watch the shadows at 0:3222:41
slonopotamusi hate those who decided to use scratchbox for maemo22:41
DocScrutinizerSB is an abomination22:41
jaskajust compiling inside a full system qemu would probably suck less22:43
Sc0rpiusScratchbox is not bad, but I hate it can't emulate armel bins using qemu22:43
jaska(so many packages suck goats at crosscompiling)22:43
slonopotamusSc0rpius: it isn't bad, it is EXTREMELY bad22:43
Sc0rpiusI have never had a problem with scratchbox, but changing from x86 to armel is tedious22:44
Sc0rpiuswhile I stay in x86, it works as expected22:44
slonopotamusif you didn't have problems with scratchbox, you just didn't use it.22:44
Sc0rpiushah22:44
Sc0rpiusI use it everyday, fixing the bugs you guys report22:44
DocScrutinizerfirst problem I had prior to even initially starting that shit22:45
DocScrutinizerit raped my HDD space22:45
Sc0rpiusI have it locked in a VMPlayer and I think my virtual HDD is no more than 20 GB22:45
MohammadAGSB > Madde22:45
slonopotamusSc0rpius: how the hell i'm supposed to build perl package usable on n900 without hitting that 5.8.4/5.8.3 crap?22:46
MohammadAGalso, is it me, or was debhelper updated to version 722:46
DocScrutinizeroooh no more that 20GB --- seriously? o.O Isn't that outright marvelous22:46
slonopotamus(the one who decided to use different versions of packages on device and on buildbot deserves separate punishment)22:47
DocScrutinizermy whole fscking root is less than 20GB22:47
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DocScrutinizerI even have boxes that have <20GB storage *total*22:48
MohammadAGhow do you live with 20GBs? :o22:48
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Sc0rpiusyou want to build perl?22:48
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slonopotamusSc0rpius: i want to build git22:48
Sc0rpiusbecause scratchbox lets you choose which version of perl you want to use22:48
slonopotamusSc0rpius: and through a chain of several tens of deps that ends up in libdbi-perl22:49
DocScrutinizerhow do I live with 20GB? Ruthless filtering, baby22:49
slonopotamusi want to use _none_ of scratchbox tools22:49
* MohammadAG got mindraped with Qt22:50
Sc0rpiusdid you read /scratchbox/doc/perl.txt ?22:50
Sc0rpiusyou didn't, did you22:50
slonopotamuswhere the hell i'm supposed to get that?22:50
slonopotamusdon't you think i have scratchbox locally?22:50
MohammadAGit exists here22:51
Sc0rpiuswhere the hell? in /scratchbox/doc/perl.txt22:51
Sc0rpius[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: /scratchbox/doc] > vi perl.txt22:51
slonopotamusSc0rpius: i don't have /scratchbox. builder has.22:51
Sc0rpiusok first questionÑ:22:52
Sc0rpiusdid YOU install the Maemo SDK?22:52
slonopotamusof course no22:52
slonopotamusit doesn't have installable for n900.22:52
Sc0rpiusyou don't develop in the N90022:53
Sc0rpiusyou develop in your PC22:53
slonopotamusi do22:53
DocScrutinizersee, It's simple absurd you need 20GB to build a (set of) binary that fits into 100MB22:53
slonopotamussadly, my n900 didn't come bundled with a development PC22:53
Sc0rpiusdon't you have a PC?22:53
slonopotamusirrelevant22:53
slonopotamusi do develop on my n90022:54
Sc0rpiuswell good luck with that22:54
Sc0rpiusnow what you exactly want to do?22:54
slonopotamusand everything works here. it's maemo builder who has troubles because it has scratchbox.22:54
slonopotamusSc0rpius: i want to build libdbi-perl on builder and after that install it on my n90022:55
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Sc0rpiusit's for the community or only for you?22:55
Sc0rpiusbecause if you are using builder just because you want a .deb you don't need it22:55
slonopotamushowever, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/libdbi-perl/1.605-1maemo1/22:55
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slonopotamusmaemo builder pulls perl-5.8.4 from somewhere22:56
slonopotamusaccording to google, it comes from scratchbox22:56
slonopotamusbut n900 only has 5.8.322:56
slonopotamusso, maemo builder is broken because it builds for something different than the _only_ maemo5 device - n90022:57
slonopotamusdoes it make sense?22:57
Sc0rpiusthat "depends" line is in devian/control file, is not something builder should be putting there22:57
Sc0rpiusdebian/control22:58
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Sc0rpiusI'd have to see that line in the debian/control file of your package22:59
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Sc0rpiusthe Depends: and Build-depends: lines23:00
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: funny23:00
Sc0rpiusI just found out that my VMWare with Ubuntu + Maemo SDK23:01
Sc0rpiusit's just 9 GB23:01
Sc0rpius9.15 GB to be exact23:01
DocScrutinizeraiui builder should try to use lowest version of libs always. That's how they try to keep pkgs compatible with older PR versions23:01
Sc0rpiusindeed.23:02
Sc0rpiusI think he's porting the libdbi-perl from another OS23:02
Sc0rpiusand that's why he's getting weird dependences23:02
Sc0rpiusbut package perl-base for Maemo is different and includes more things, and I think, (almost sure), includes perlapi23:02
DocScrutinizerI guess builder is built from perl ;-P23:02
DocScrutinizerand gets mental about what's "userspace" and what's its own 'brain'23:03
Sc0rpiusand I REALLY SUGGEST you use Maemo SDK. If you are a smart guy using W7, just download VMWare Player like smart guys do, install an Ubuntu environment, and install Maemo SDK tehre23:03
Sc0rpiusyou don't have to give up your precious Windows 7 workstation for a nasty Linux environment23:04
* Sc0rpius waits the haters wave gonna hate23:04
DocScrutinizerSc0rpius: all OK at your site? o.O23:04
Sc0rpiushehehe23:05
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slonopotamus...23:05
Sc0rpiusactually look this setup23:05
Sc0rpiusthis is a Corei5 quad 750 4 GB RAm running W7 64 bits23:05
Sc0rpiustwo monitors23:05
Sc0rpiusthe host OS (Windows) in one23:05
Sc0rpiusVMWare maximized running Ubuntu in the other monitor23:06
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Sc0rpiusso it's both environments at the same time23:06
Sc0rpiusVMWare is extremely fast, you don't notice any performance degradation in the Ubuntu VM23:06
slonopotamusSc0rpius: from debian/control: Depends: ${perl:Depends}, ${shlibs:Depends}, libplrpc-perl23:06
Sc0rpiusah then you got me23:06
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Sc0rpiusnow Build-Depends: ?23:06
Sc0rpiusjust a couple of lines above23:07
DocScrutinizerWIN7(VMware(LINUX(ScratchBox(ARMemu(Maemo(compiler)))))23:07
slonopotamusSc0rpius: debhelper (>= 7), perl-modules, quilt (>= 0.40), libtest-pod-perl, libplrpc-perl, libtest-pod-coverage-perl23:07
Sc0rpiusthat's the Build-Depends: ?23:07
slonopotamusyes23:07
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slonopotamusSc0rpius: do you see 5.8.4 there? i don't23:08
DocScrutinizerWIN7(virtualPC(Ubuntu(VMware(LINUX(ScratchBox(ARMemu(Maemo(compiler)))))))23:08
slonopotamusand it gets correct 5.8.3 if built on n90023:08
Sc0rpius"* Disabled scratchbox hijacking of /usr/bin/perl"23:08
Sc0rpiuswhat exactly includes that change?23:08
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: :D23:09
slonopotamusSc0rpius: export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl and export PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:/scratchbox/tools/bin in debian/rules23:09
slonopotamusSc0rpius: without that, things were even worse23:10
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Sc0rpiuswell i think I'm gonna download the sources and see what the problem is23:10
MohammadAGumm23:10
Sc0rpiusbeacuse you don't really need to do that23:10
MohammadAGif I stash a commit23:10
MohammadAGhow do I reapply it?23:10
slonopotamusMohammadAG: git stash pop23:11
slonopotamusSc0rpius: without those, scratchbox tries to load arm .so into x86 perl (coming from /scratchbox) and happily fails23:11
slonopotamusMohammadAG: or git stash apply (that'll keep it on stash)23:13
Venemohttp://xkcd.com/394/23:14
MohammadAGI'm retarded23:15
MohammadAGI worked on something for 3 hours23:15
VenemoMohammadAG: what's the matter?23:15
MohammadAGit didn't compile23:15
DocScrutinizer\o/ finally23:15
MohammadAGI gave up and removed the changes23:15
DocScrutinizerand still no luck :-P23:15
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slonopotamusVeggen: hehe :)23:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: welcome to the club23:15
MohammadAGno, I was using CONFIG += mobility23:15
DocScrutinizer:-D23:15
MohammadAGinstead of mobility1223:15
* MohammadAG faceplams :/23:16
DocScrutinizerlol23:16
MohammadAG3h work, gone23:16
MohammadAGoh well23:16
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Hoxzer:( happens to the best of us. Just make sure your gf wont hear about it23:16
DocScrutinizer3h? bah, nothing! if it's like 3 weeks, maybe 3 months, then you are entitled to start moaning23:17
slonopotamuscommit early, commit often :P23:17
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DocScrutinizermuhahaha23:17
slonopotamusthen squash and push :)23:17
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rdesfohello23:18
rdesfohas any one been able to get rsync to work with n900?23:19
* DocScrutinizer idly ponders how long until he gets the much wanted versioning fs on all his boxes23:19
rdesfoI can ssh into it23:19
DocScrutinizersure23:19
DocScrutinizerdoing that every day, literally23:19
DocScrutinizercronjob :-D23:19
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rdesforsync [OPTION...] [USER@]HOST:SRC... [DEST]23:20
DocScrutinizerneed a hint?23:20
rdesfoplease...I've read the man page and I'm still not able to get it to work properly23:20
slonopotamusSc0rpius: i'm going to sleep, if you do smth good/have ideas with libdbi-perl, please, /msg me23:20
DocScrutinizerwhile ! rsync -vaRzx --fake-super root@$1:/ ~/Documents/N900/backup/$1; do echo "$1 not available via ssh, retrying in 30 minutes"; sleep 1800; done23:21
DocScrutinizerecho "########## rootfs synced, now syncing /home"23:21
DocScrutinizerwhile ! rsync -vaRzx --fake-super root@$1:/home ~/Documents/N900/backup/$1/home; do echo "$1 not available via ssh, retrying in 30 minutes"; sleep 1800; done23:21
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rdesfothanks23:22
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DocScrutinizerrdesfo: this assumes you have set up your .ssh/authorized_keys properly23:27
Sc0rpiushmm23:27
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rdesfoDocScrutinizer: thanks23:28
DocScrutinizerrdesfo: and $1 obviously is the N900 IP target. I got fixed IP assigned to my devices in /etc/hosts, so I call this script like `rsync-N900 IroN900` where IroN900 is the name of my daily phone as of /etc/hosts23:28
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DocScrutinizerof course `rsync-N900 192.168.1.41` will work as well23:31
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Sc0rpiusI can't find debhelper >=7 all I got and I can get is 523:36
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Sc0rpiusoh there's 723:36
DocScrutinizerbtw I *LOVE* hardlinks23:36
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javispedromoo.23:37
DocScrutinizermoo javispedro23:38
DocScrutinizercp -al  FTW23:39
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Jaffajavispedro: If you're still looking for the rotation PoC, see thp's most recent blog post on Planet23:40
javispedrothanks Jaffa23:41
Jaffajavispedro: And the merge request/commits under http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop23:42
* DocScrutinizer ponders idly to peek at recent MWKN23:42
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: You can ignore my blathering on the front page, I won't mind23:42
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javispedrohum23:46
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javispedroI wish I had some time to continue my experiments with xrandr..23:46
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javispedroI still believe it is plausible to do it seamlessly23:46
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pupnikjavispedro: what do you want to do?23:50
javispedroto make it rotate handset ux-style, without ditching xrandr23:50
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javispedroheh23:50
pupniki'm sorry i have no context for that.  maemo or meego?23:50
javispedrolocal tv is getting The IT crowd =)23:51
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pupnikbadly written show, sadly23:51
pupnikgreat concept23:51
javispedropupnik: meego's handset ux23:51
pupnikah ok23:51
javispedrobut using maemo as test platform23:51
javispedro(as maemo currently uses xrandr)23:51
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* pupnik loves e7 design 23:51
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: why ignore that? all I read there is to the point23:53
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timelesshttp://nokiapla.net/ <- makes me happy23:55
timelesserr23:55
DocScrutinizerI still got a feeling of doom about that "meego device". Might be a tablet?23:55
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RST38hDoc: Will be a Harmattan phone. Stop winding yourself up.23:58
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