| Sc0rpius | I think you can still buy N900s in Amazon | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Sc0rpius | yup, you can. | 00:00 |
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| pupnik_ | none of the uk sellers ship to germany | 00:05 |
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| pupnik_ | probably some insane law in uk | 00:05 |
| pupnik_ | Item location: stockport, Cheshire, United Kingdom | 00:06 |
| pupnik_ | Post to: United Kingdom | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: moin | 00:08 |
| javispedro | moo | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'm investigating on a new yet unused way to dim the display even further down - and maybe as well a way to make beeps from speaker really early in bootup | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG | echo 1 > /sys/class/backlight/acxwhatever/brightness | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | too bright, ask SpeedEvil | 00:10 |
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| javispedro | that is too bright? =) | 00:11 |
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| MohammadAG | then I obviously have eye problems | 00:11 |
| javispedro | me too, I would have a hard time telling if the backlight is even on. | 00:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, 1 is actually off, 2 is to bright | 00:13 |
| javispedro | ok, makes sense | 00:14 |
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| javispedro | either way, curiosity is picking up. why both things (backlight + beeps) on the same sentence, are they related somehow? | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | both are unused GPIO of GAIA | 00:15 |
| javispedro | oh | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia EE wired them up in a really nifty way, but SW didn't use them | 00:16 |
| javispedro | factory testing maybe? | 00:16 |
| javispedro | (though dunno why :P) | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe just considered useless | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | "meh, echo 2 >brightness, who could want less?" | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: It's too bright for using in complete darkness, with dark adapted eyes. | 00:18 |
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| javispedro | yeah, thought 1 was minimum, didn't try 2 | 00:19 |
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| pupnik_ | maybe n900s will be cheaper in spring | 00:20 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: so, is that on schematic? | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 00:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | search N4200, then search M4 | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply search for GPIO6/PWM0 | 00:22 |
| * javispedro was looking at IHF_EN in amplifier | 00:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the other one | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | gotta find me N4052 amp datasheet | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | err N4051 | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | (no, the chip isn't named N4051!) | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | IHF_EN is to _SDL/_SDR | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody gave me a clue yet what's IHF | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | (except some troll who claimed it's "I Had Fun" | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ) | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 00:26 |
| javispedro | I have no idea either, but _SDL/_SDR pair does give some google hits | 00:26 |
| javispedro | pandora uses gaia pwm for leds, so there's plenty of kernel code avail | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 00:27 |
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| javispedro | http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg03579.html | 00:28 |
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| lolcat | I want spotify | 00:28 |
| lolcat | Can I virtulize android? | 00:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShutDownLeft | 00:29 |
| javispedro | heh | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's in line with IHF_EN | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's questionable if we can make it beep by pulsing this line | 00:30 |
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| lolcat | Can the maemo BEEP? | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: that patch doesn't look like it's dealing with twl4030 GAIA PWM | 00:32 |
| javispedro | wrong google hit | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | or I missed sth | 00:33 |
| javispedro | leds-twl4030-pwm.c was looking for that | 00:33 |
| javispedro | =) | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be really useful for the CIR LED though | 00:33 |
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| javispedro | can't find that complete file on google, only references, but should be on pandora kernel tarball | 00:34 |
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| ieatlint | is arm little endian? | 00:42 |
| Proteous | big sky is an indian | 00:43 |
| lolcat | arm is a cpu arcitechutre | 00:43 |
| Proteous | little arm, I'm not sure | 00:43 |
| javispedro | not necessarily, but you're most like to find little endian implementations | 00:43 |
| javispedro | *likely | 00:43 |
| Venemo | Proteous: ARMEL is little-endian, ARMEB is big-endian. | 00:43 |
| Venemo | tab fail | 00:43 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: ARMEL is little-endian, ARMEB is big-endian. | 00:43 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: ARMEL is what's in the NITs for example | 00:43 |
| Proteous | Howling wolf is Plains Indian | 00:43 |
| ieatlint | heh, ok | 00:44 |
| ieatlint | i just spent 30min debugging something to find out that it's an endian issue. this is like the 3rd time this has happened to me :( | 00:44 |
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| Venemo | ieatlint: yeah, it happens sometimes | 00:46 |
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| ieatlint | yeah.. | 00:46 |
| Venemo | ieatlint: it's best to write code that doesn't depend on the endianness of the underlying platform | 00:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: you're debugging code written by fools. Decent code isn't endiness-dependent | 00:51 |
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| ieatlint | i knew this already :( | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, seems I should've read Venemo's line above | 00:52 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :P | 00:53 |
| ieatlint | i'm dealing with pcm data is part of why i'm needing to handle it | 00:53 |
| ieatlint | s16le pcm files | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, read in bytes, and you're done. You know what you got from the file, take upper-byte *2^8 + lower-byte | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | neber fails | 00:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | never even | 00:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | forget about endianess | 00:58 |
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| ieatlint | already doing that now | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't forget about sign ;-) | 01:00 |
| ieatlint | yep, already have it reading valid data | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | really? what's about 0xFFFF0000 ? | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, that's actually where it wont fail, what's about 0xFFFF7FFFF | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err 0xFF7F | 01:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you said s16, not s32 | 01:07 |
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| Venemo | javispedro: ping | 01:09 |
| javispedro | bang | 01:09 |
| javispedro | Venemo^^ | 01:10 |
| Venemo | javispedro, what was the reason for which sound didn't work in OpenTTD? | 01:11 |
| javispedro | music -- not sound. mixing. | 01:11 |
| Venemo | javispedro: right, music. what about mixing? | 01:11 |
| javispedro | hm.. | 01:11 |
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| Venemo | javispedro: just out of curiosity | 01:12 |
| javispedro | trying to remember =) | 01:12 |
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| javispedro | they do not use sdl_mixer, and assume a external player for midi | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: you need to do that math in a int32, then cast to a int16 | 01:13 |
| javispedro | Venemo: so a quick way to try music would be to ship the timidity binary and point openttd config to it | 01:13 |
| javispedro | (iirc) | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I *think* that should work for values<0 and regardless of endianess | 01:13 |
| Venemo | javispedro: where's timidity's source? | 01:13 |
| javispedro | as for producing the sound inside the application itself, the previous maintainer of openttd had a patch that made it use sdl_mixer, but of course forward porting it is pain | 01:14 |
| javispedro | Venemo: afaik it's on extras even. | 01:14 |
| javispedro | oh, oh. | 01:15 |
| javispedro | openttd-openmsx isn't on extras, I remember packaging it though... let me look up. | 01:15 |
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| javispedro | ah no, not there =). Well, commercial music only then. | 01:15 |
| Venemo | javispedro: openmsx is downloadable from inside the app | 01:16 |
| javispedro | good | 01:16 |
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| Venemo | javispedro: I was just asking because I have encountered the same error in Fedora | 01:17 |
| javispedro | it probably is | 01:17 |
| javispedro | as I was saying it assumes a external player, either alsa or a binary to spawn | 01:17 |
| javispedro | I have a creative card here, so never had problems with it. | 01:18 |
| javispedro | you should be able to setup timidity in some way to make it work | 01:18 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: my code is like this: int a,b; a = fgetc( file ) & 0xff; b = fgetc( file ); short c = (a << 8) | b; | 01:18 |
| ieatlint | and c is valid | 01:18 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: participating in the obfuscated C code contest? | 01:19 |
| ieatlint | haha | 01:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: I guess that works as well, thanks ansi-c or whatever | 01:19 |
| ieatlint | nah, big endian -> little endian | 01:19 |
| ketas | big indian | 01:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (a << 8) = a * 2^8 | 01:20 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: i'm open to suggestions for better methods | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | if that's true then it shall work | 01:20 |
| ieatlint | hah, that's a novel way to check | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I didn't talk about checks :-D | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's been about definitions | 01:21 |
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| ieatlint | anyway, it's temp code.. pulling in s16le files, will be reading from audio interface for production | 01:21 |
| ieatlint | and the audio system should be giving me shorts in the right endianness | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess there's no lang dialect where a << 1 is not identical to a * 2 | 01:22 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: that code snippet is semantically identical whatever the endianness | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | for int a | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | and value a < maxint/2 | 01:23 |
| ieatlint | javispedro: uh, no... reading s16le into a s16be | 01:23 |
| javispedro | most probably you're doing it wrong later | 01:24 |
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| javispedro | ie c is part of an array and you memcpy or read that | 01:25 |
| Venemo | javispedro: how is openttd trying to call the binary? | 01:26 |
| javispedro | Venemo: http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_troubleshooting#There_is_no_sound_or_no_music_on_Linux | 01:26 |
| Venemo | javispedro: yum install timidity -> no such package | 01:27 |
| Venemo | javispedro: I read the wiki first | 01:27 |
| javispedro | I doubt Fedora doesn't package it | 01:27 |
| javispedro | so search a bit, maybe timidity-alsa and timidity-pulse versions or sth | 01:27 |
| Venemo | javispedro: I installed timidity++ or whatever it is called. but I still don't have music | 01:28 |
| javispedro | you ran it as per the instructions there? | 01:28 |
| javispedro | (and left it running) | 01:28 |
| Venemo | yes, just tried | 01:29 |
| Venemo | no result | 01:30 |
| ieatlint | c isn't part of an array | 01:30 |
| ieatlint | it's added to an array after the conversion | 01:30 |
| pupnik_ | wow, you can get white and gold n900 housings.. http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-faceplate-cover-gold-p-3673.html | 01:31 |
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| javispedro | Venemo: dunno, your distros support will be able to help you better on this... | 01:31 |
| Venemo | javispedro: no response from them yet :P | 01:31 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: that would look definitely oddly | 01:31 |
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| * javispedro really suggests a creative emu10k1 card for linux audio... $20 and you suddenly forget about pulseaudio, midi problems, etc. (but also about rates < or > than 48kHz :( ) | 01:33 | |
| Venemo | javispedro: so where do I put that card in my laptop? | 01:34 |
| Venemo | or my N900? | 01:34 |
| javispedro | well, do a hack =) | 01:34 |
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| Venemo | hehe | 01:36 |
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| pupnik_ | how much the n900 community kicks ass: Camera application that shoots RAW images, with full manual control over everything - http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fcamera/ | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I wish it was a bit less rough edged. | 01:40 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: it's quite old news :) | 01:40 |
| pupnik_ | yeah still | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - sure - it's got wizzy features. | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | But how do I get it to take a picture with flash. | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | In many ways the exiting camera app is quite good. | 01:40 |
| Venemo | javispedro: an alternative solution would be to get the music in mp3 and play with the default player :P | 01:41 |
| javispedro | Venemo: that's what I do on n8x0, where default player uses dsp for that. | 01:41 |
| Venemo | javispedro: why, N900 player doesn't use dsp? | 01:41 |
| javispedro | not for audio, but n900 has power to spare with openttd running | 01:42 |
| Venemo | yeah, it does. but still, I hate wasting. | 01:42 |
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| pupnik_ | i would love an open source demo program to generate sounds with dsp | 01:43 |
| pupnik_ | and play them through speaker without bothering the cpu | 01:43 |
| pupnik_ | but i don't think the architecture is set up for that | 01:43 |
| pupnik_ | it has to go back through cpu, then pulse, then alsa | 01:43 |
| Venemo | which is silly | 01:44 |
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| pupnik_ | Venemo: well they had to deliver something on-time | 01:44 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: right. so they did it buggily | 01:45 |
| javispedro | but they did! unlike the n9! | 01:45 |
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| javispedro | ok, ok =) | 01:45 |
| Venemo | N9=myth | 01:46 |
| pupnik_ | let's not compare real things to imaginary hopes | 01:46 |
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| Venemo | agreed | 01:46 |
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| pupnik | Venemo: it appears omap3 lets the dsp do this | 02:13 |
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| Venemo | pupnik: yea | 02:16 |
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| * jonwil still has no N900 projects to work on :( | 02:46 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Were any n900s actually sold locked to a provider? | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | That is - can't use any SIM | 02:51 |
| jonwil | I have never heard of any | 02:51 |
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| jonwil | Seems all the good ideas hit bottlenecks because the code needed is closed and all the GREAT ideas hit bottlenecks because the code needed is closed and will never be opened (i.e. dialer source) | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | There are still useful apps to be written. | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | For example, a little script to turn the flash on as flashlight when the camera shutter is opened pointing downwards. | 03:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: pupnik: please suggest how to change hardware to enable dsp audio without cpu involvement | 03:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yes, there are several ebay offers of SIM-locked N900 | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I mean, nobody would say "it's SIM-locked" when it actually isn't? | 03:19 |
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| ds3 | DocScrutinizer: no hw change. just sw | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt that is compatible with internal SoC architecture | 03:20 |
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| ds3 | that is | 03:22 |
| ds3 | we just talked about it about an hour or so ago =) | 03:22 |
| ds3 | it is more of keeping ALSA happy then anything else | 03:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, that's a silly way to put it. Even if it's possible to directly DMA audio data from DSP to MCBSP2 interface and correctly transfer and handshake it to codec, you still have the problem that then you have a MCBSP2 interface exclusively used by this DMA, and no other process can output any audio. That's absolutely unrelated to ALSA, except of course for ALSA offering a sw mixer so you could send concurrent audio streams to the codec - | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | this *has* to be done in CPU land, but that's not ALSA's fault | 03:29 |
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| ds3 | all I am saying is ALSA does not know about having to relinquishing control to the DSP | 03:31 |
| ds3 | the DSP can indeed DSP to the McBSP | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah, /etc/init.d/alsa stop | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | what else should ALSA know about DSP? | 03:35 |
| ds3 | ALSA probally needs to stay around to keep the codec happy (i.e. volume controls) | 03:35 |
| pupnik | i would be perfectly happy to let a program block all other audio | 03:35 |
| pupnik | if i were using the device as an mp3 player | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ALSA needs an audiocard. The only one available is MCBSP2. If ALSA can't access it, then ALSA can not run | 03:35 |
| ds3 | ALSA just needs to get its grubby little hands off the DOUT/FS data | 03:36 |
| ds3 | No | 03:36 |
| ds3 | let system boot up with ALSA | 03:36 |
| pupnik | i think ds3 is correct here | 03:36 |
| ds3 | then inform the driver to not talk to the McBSP for data purposes | 03:36 |
| ds3 | tell DSP to use it | 03:36 |
| ds3 | when DSP is done, tell driver to reassert control over the McBSP data | 03:36 |
| ds3 | there is a McBSP library; the alsa SoC code calls into that | 03:37 |
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| ds3 | I have mucked in this area before | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, you can do whatever you want. I'm just wondering what's the purpose of all this | 03:37 |
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| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: to unload cpu | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | why? | 03:39 |
| pupnik | to see if power can be saved, or to let another process use all cpu | 03:40 |
| ds3 | or to avoid broken audio | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | save power? do you really think DSP is more economic with power than CPU? | 03:40 |
| pupnik | that's why i said 'to see if' | 03:41 |
| ds3 | rather then having to process compressed audio + uncompressed audio; the CPU just takes uncompress audio and tosses it over to the DSP and never to see it again | 03:41 |
| ds3 | yes, the DSP is more economic with power then the CPU | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, yeah. Now we ask Nokia to implement support for DSP into ALSA, to prove it's nonsense :-P | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ds3: duh, never ever | 03:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I've wondered in the past about getting the CPU to shut down, and to spit out a pre-decoded buffer to the soundcard | 03:42 |
| ds3 | it can retired more data per clock then NEON for one | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? | 03:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | That doesn't say much about its 'idle' power | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | DSP isn't economic, DSP is *fast* | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | It's economic if it's needing to do a lot of work. | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and fast is utterly useless for audio | 03:44 |
| ds3 | I say let's try it and settle it once and for all :D | 03:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Please do! | 03:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I will sponsor you one cream cracker, if you get it working. | 03:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Two, if you get it working tonight. | 03:46 |
| ds3 | :D | 03:47 |
| flat` | :D | 03:47 |
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| Ken-Young | Does anyone know how to classify a Maemo Garage project in the "Trove Software Map" ? | 04:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NFC what this Trove map is | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | seen it as well on frontpage of projects | 04:23 |
| Venemo | Ken-Young: doesn't matter, noone will care | 04:23 |
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| Ken-Young | Venemo, Now what kind of attitude is THAT? (I know, realistic). | 04:24 |
| Venemo | Ken-Young: well, the only place where Trove is visible is the garage page, which is rarely visited by anyone. | 04:25 |
| Ken-Young | I managed to find the weird pathway through the admon options once, and classified one project, but never could find it again. | 04:25 |
| Ken-Young | s/admon/admin/ | 04:25 |
| infobot | Ken-Young meant: I managed to find the weird pathway through the admin options once, and classified one project, but never could find it again. | 04:25 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: you here? | 04:42 |
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| Venemo | I've just found the weirdest bug ever. | 04:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody for some N900 pixels? http://www.flickr.com/photos/43738815@N04/5454555285/in/contacts/ | 04:55 |
| nox- | nice :) | 04:57 |
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| pupnik | morning nox | 04:59 |
| nox- | moin pupnik | 04:59 |
| pupnik | nice GeneralAntilles - if i sell a N900 i'll use that as the product pic | 05:00 |
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| apol_ | can somebody tell me on what repository can I find liblzma1? | 05:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | apol: http://maemo.org/packages/view/liblzma1/ | 05:14 |
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| apol | so extras-devel? | 05:14 |
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| apol | awesome :D thanks | 05:16 |
| ShadowJK | and extras-testing | 05:16 |
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| newbie007 | does any one know if it is possible/ feasible to put maemo on a nook. color? | 05:31 |
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| newbie007 | thiss nook thing has android. in order to install notepad i need to grant location aware security setting | 05:33 |
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| newbie007 | sorry cannot type weell i.m using a" "nook | 05:34 |
| rm_work | lol cause the notepad needs to be able to track you down in case you type something that triggers a homeland security alert | 05:35 |
| rm_work | (assuming you're in the US) | 05:35 |
| rm_work | otherwise, s/homeland security/secret police/ | 05:35 |
| rm_work | it's a synonym really | 05:36 |
| newbie007 | it is rather creepy. if i were at a mall i would ask for his home address to use a pen | 05:36 |
| newbie007 | n.t. i woulddnn.t | 05:37 |
| newbie007 | it is rather creepy. if i were at a mall i would ask for his home address to use a pen | 05:37 |
| newbie007 | this android os scares me and i want mt freedom back | 05:38 |
| rm_work | lol | 05:38 |
| newbie007 | tinstall the androd OS I HAd to tell them twice - don.t. upload my gps | 05:40 |
| newbie007 | i mean thanks for asking. but no way and stay away from my family | 05:41 |
| newbie007 | if android were person it would be a creepy old man stairing at people in a park | 05:42 |
| newbie007 | protect the homeland! | 05:43 |
| newbie007 | lets hire the old man in the park to go through our bags to keep us" safe. | 05:44 |
| newbie007 | maemo is like a guy in a park that if you said hi to je would probably say hi back | 05:45 |
| lolcat | newbie007: Lol | 05:46 |
| lolcat | What is the easiest way to install meego? | 05:46 |
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| korhojoa | lolcat: read the wiki | 05:55 |
| lolcat | Wiki? | 05:55 |
| korhojoa | wiki. | 05:55 |
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| pupnik | 04:33 < newbie007> thiss nook thing has android. in order to install notepad i need to grant location aware security setting | 06:01 |
| pupnik | ha ha ha | 06:01 |
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| * pupnik pictures users wrapping their nooks in tinfoil | 06:01 | |
| chx | imagine angry users throwing their crappy ereader out the window | 06:02 |
| * chx is getting a Sony as he is fed up with the nook. | 06:02 | |
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| pupnik | i have an arthos a70s which can run angstrom and probably meego | 06:03 |
| pupnik | *archos | 06:03 |
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| chx | I will have a Sony that runs for weeks without charging and has a big eInk Pearl screen. Win. | 06:04 |
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| comawhite | I am sshing in my phone. I can't find the .sounds folder | 06:33 |
| Venemo | comawhite: 'cd /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/' | 06:36 |
| comawhite | yeah I get "Could not enter folder fish://root@192.168.1.109/home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/ | 06:37 |
| Venemo | interesting | 06:37 |
| comawhite | yeah my usb port on my n900 is fucked up, so I need to find another way to add music on the phone | 06:37 |
| Venemo | mhm | 06:37 |
| korhojoa | comawhite: heh, same here | 06:37 |
| Venemo | you can add music to any other folder btw. | 06:38 |
| korhojoa | how come it doesn't show? | 06:38 |
| comawhite | nfc | 06:38 |
| comawhite | I logined in as root :S | 06:38 |
| Venemo | korhojoa: because stuff beginning with '.' are hidden in linux | 06:38 |
| korhojoa | what's fish? | 06:38 |
| comawhite | ssh login via kde :P | 06:38 |
| korhojoa | Venemo: i know that, i meant the folder, why he can't access it | 06:38 |
| Venemo | korhojoa: I have no idea, sorry | 06:39 |
| korhojoa | comawhite: can you access it on the device? | 06:39 |
| korhojoa | if you can, just rsync it off using the device | 06:39 |
| comawhite | some folder called Nokia N900/Audio clips/ | 06:40 |
| pahartik | korhojoa: Is "/home/user/MyDocs" mounted? | 06:41 |
| korhojoa | pahartik: it's not my device | 06:42 |
| comawhite | pahartik, it's my device | 06:42 |
| korhojoa | well then | 06:43 |
| pahartik | comawhite: Is "/home/user/MyDocs" mounted? | 06:43 |
| comawhite | now it's showing | 06:43 |
| korhojoa | i'll leave you to figure it out | 06:43 |
| johnx | does fish show any folders? | 06:43 |
| comawhite | i got it working now | 06:43 |
| korhojoa | i have to go, flight attendants want me to turn off my phone | 06:43 |
| comawhite | I don't know what I did | 06:43 |
| korhojoa | comawhite: great :D | 06:43 |
| comawhite | korhojoa, hehe | 06:43 |
| comawhite | thanks guys | 06:43 |
| korhojoa | remember, #maemo is your friend | 06:44 |
| comawhite | :D | 06:44 |
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| comawhite | too bad the ssh speed sucks balls | 06:44 |
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| StanStill | hello | 06:49 |
| StanStill | anyone in here own a Nokia N900? | 06:49 |
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| ieatlint | i think at least one person in here does | 06:50 |
| pahartik | StanStill: Yes | 06:51 |
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| krayon | I'd go as far as saying more than one. At least 3. | 06:53 |
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| Venemo | check this out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=949457#post949457 | 07:00 |
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| newbie007 | greetings, anyone have any idea if maemo could run on a nook color? The specs are similar, both arm screen is different | 07:59 |
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| pupnik | Is there a linux distro for nook color? | 08:00 |
| newbie007 | you can put android on it, it comes with android | 08:00 |
| pupnik | Well nobody has ported maemo to another system because much of it is closed | 08:00 |
| newbie007 | I have heard that it is more closed than open | 08:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | That's true with regards to the UI mostly | 08:01 |
| pupnik | But http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer this could run perhaps | 08:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | And a few drivers | 08:01 |
| newbie007 | really I want the repoistories | 08:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | Pupnik: I'd try Ubuntu before Mer - I tried loading Mer on an x86 tablet PC with a 1GHZ processor and 1GB of ram. It worked at oh... 1fps. | 08:02 |
| pupnik | ok | 08:02 |
| RobbieThe1st | Could be simply needing a better OpenGL driver or something... But still, it's not like you'll find one for the Nook most likely | 08:03 |
| pupnik | i don't remember mer needing GL | 08:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | I don't know if it needs it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's almost required for proper transition support. | 08:03 |
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| slonopotamus | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/curl_7.18.2-8lenny4/ | 08:10 |
| slonopotamus | what's up with it? | 08:10 |
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| slonopotamus | X-Fade: /\ | 08:21 |
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| krayon | Venemo: That looks awesome! | 08:27 |
| krayon | Venemo: Any plans to make the pieces "puzzle" shaped? Not too difficult I would think and would make it even cooler. | 08:29 |
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| toadpole | hey anyone using carman on n900? | 09:53 |
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| khertan | Morning | 10:05 |
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| pupnik | muhu khertan :) | 10:15 |
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| lolcat | I can't wait untill I get my new phone subscription! | 10:16 |
| khertan | 'lo pupnik | 10:16 |
| pupnik | did you see you can get White and Gold n900 cases? ) | 10:17 |
| khertan | pupnik, i'll try today the last meego 1.1 version on n900 :) | 10:17 |
| pupnik | cool | 10:17 |
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| pupnik | http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-replacement-case-shell-white-p-3672.html | 10:17 |
| pupnik | imagine a white N900 | 10:18 |
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| khertan | pupnik, i more interested by an n900 with a induction charger | 10:18 |
| khertan | like the one on palm pre :) | 10:18 |
| lolcat | pupnik: I would like one of those, I lost my stylus :( | 10:19 |
| pupnik | that is sexy sure | 10:19 |
| khertan | pupnik, but interesting as some parts are missing on my n900 plastic cover :) | 10:19 |
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| pupnik | i'm pretty sure these are chinese aftermarket copies | 10:20 |
| khertan | of course | 10:20 |
| pupnik | but it would be very strange to have a white n900 | 10:20 |
| ds3 | much rather have an n900 with a compass | 10:21 |
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| khertan | pupnik, indeed ... too bad no more maemo summit ... i ll did it :) | 10:21 |
| khertan | just for fun | 10:21 |
| khertan | :) | 10:21 |
| khertan | s/i ll/else i ll | 10:22 |
| pupnik | :) | 10:22 |
| ds3 | has anyone actually built a compass for the N900? | 10:22 |
| khertan | and the gold edition : http://www.ecaseshop.com/nokia-n900-housing-faceplate-cover-gold-p-3673.html | 10:22 |
| khertan | ;) | 10:22 |
| pupnik | bling | 10:22 |
| pupnik | you can see the poor moulding / uneven color | 10:23 |
| khertan | pupnik, unfortunatly no aluminium one ... will be perfect for overclocking :) | 10:23 |
| khertan | pupnik, indeed | 10:23 |
| pupnik | which is almost funnier | 10:23 |
| pupnik | "how to prevent your n900 from being stolen" | 10:23 |
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| khertan | pupnik, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfRq_AUnsw0 | 10:24 |
| lolcat | I want to buy a second phone, some cheap ass shit that I can use with a twin sim. Any suggestions? | 10:24 |
| lolcat | I need one with long battery life, for drunken escapades and such | 10:24 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: something of your hildon-home eats up ram after a while, I got no 3rd party widgets running so if you need further testing or logs don't hesitate to gimme some instructions, I am off for the weekend so query me and I will have a look in a few days | 10:24 |
| pupnik | ah ty khertan | 10:25 |
| pupnik | bling :) | 10:25 |
| khertan | pupnik, the author didn't recommand to buy cheap cover ... | 10:25 |
| khertan | he say him come from ebay | 10:25 |
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| khertan | pupnik, but it s still black around the screen | 10:26 |
| khertan | and so it s not really beautiful | 10:27 |
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| pupnik | not totally bad though | 10:27 |
| pupnik | anybody have a speaker upgrade? | 10:28 |
| pupnik | maybe dremel-out some space and put in n810 speakers? | 10:28 |
| khertan | lol | 10:29 |
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| pupnik | hey if the case + keymat = $19, why not go crazy | 10:29 |
| chem|st | how do I search ram mappings of a program again? I am looking at hildon-home attached processes atm and cannot find the bug anymore where the instructions are | 10:29 |
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| chem|st | can someone have a look into his hildon-home process smaps and tell me how big his libgtk is? | 10:47 |
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| chem|st | cat /proc/$(pidof hildon-home|cut -d' ' -f1)/smaps > smaps-hildon-home | 10:48 |
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| chem|st | and what is your percentage of ram usage of hh | 10:48 |
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| EsEhAr | do we have pulseaudio-alsa package in maemo5 ? | 10:49 |
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| chem|st | damn locale-archive eats 2MB... what for? | 10:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | Um... google it? Or try "apt-cache search" with extras-devel enabled? | 10:49 |
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| RobbieThe1st | (@EsEhAr) | 10:49 |
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| EsEhAr | I check but not find | 10:50 |
| chem|st | RobbieThe1st: got a sec to pastebin me your smaps? | 10:50 |
| RobbieThe1st | Sure, why not | 10:50 |
| chem|st | and the percentage of your ram usage of hildon-home would be nice | 10:51 |
| EsEhAr | its not even here http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=pulseaudio&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same | 10:51 |
| chem|st | o_O locale archive has double entries or eats 4MB... | 10:51 |
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| RobbieThe1st | http://pastebin.com/kZjpXxp6 | 10:54 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Note, there's two pids for hildon-home; one gave that, the other a much smaller file | 10:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | This was the higher PID | 10:55 |
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| chem|st | RobbieThe1st: my [heap] is 34MB, thanks... | 10:55 |
| chem|st | yours 10... | 10:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | Huh. Mind you, I only have a few buttons on my desktop; two desktops enabled, and only three widgets(media player, FM transmitter and pedometer) | 10:57 |
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| chem|st | I got additionaly to you weather and calendar..., and buttons but no widgets | 10:57 |
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| alterego | media player is my only widget | 10:58 |
| chem|st | and calendar and contacts seems to be loaded from hildon-desktop not home | 10:58 |
| chem|st | alterego: what is your heap | 10:58 |
| alterego | 38M free with 2 xterms open atm | 10:59 |
| alterego | With one microb 7M free :D | 10:59 |
| chem|st | no the smaps heap shows the max usage of it, not the current | 11:00 |
| alterego | under proc meminfo? | 11:00 |
| chem|st | cat /proc/$(pidof hildon-home|cut -d' ' -f1)/smaps > smaps-hildon-home | 11:01 |
| chem|st | it is one of the first 10 entries with [heap] in the line | 11:01 |
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| chem|st | .oO(I actualy try to get my head off the edge while waiting on my blood parameters) | 11:02 |
| chem|st | even messed up hildon-home from PR1.2 had a max heap of 22MB | 11:03 |
| alterego | size 3700kB | 11:03 |
| chem|st | for heap? | 11:03 |
| alterego | yup | 11:03 |
| chem|st | thats awesome | 11:03 |
| alterego | says swap 2132kB | 11:03 |
| alterego | is that how much is swapped out atm? | 11:03 |
| chem|st | at heap it is the max swapped by hh ever | 11:04 |
| chem|st | since last start | 11:04 |
| alterego | Ah, cool | 11:04 |
| chem|st | at least that is what I understand from smaps | 11:04 |
| alterego | Right | 11:04 |
| chem|st | all other things is the size the size of the loadable module, but does not mean that it needs that much ram when running | 11:05 |
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| khertan | Seems it ll be time to update my n900 to maemo pr1.3 :) | 11:39 |
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| * pupnik watches the tumbleweeds | 11:42 | |
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| rafal_g | How do I get around adding new client for specific portocol type (eg instead of the default rtcom-messaging-ui) ? | 12:04 |
| lolcat | Can I install android from the appstore (or whatever it is called)? | 12:04 |
| rafal_g | lolcat: Can't tell if serious or just trolling :| | 12:06 |
| lolcat | I am serious | 12:06 |
| alterego | You want to install android from Ovi store? | 12:06 |
| lolcat | No, the other program installer | 12:06 |
| lolcat | Program manager | 12:07 |
| alterego | lolcat: well, why don't you read the numerous nitdroid threads .. | 12:07 |
| alterego | There are plenty of howtos on howto instrall it .. | 12:07 |
| lolcat | Anyone for ubuntu? | 12:08 |
| MohammadAG | there's also a howto on howto read a howto :P | 12:08 |
| lolcat | Do I need acomputer? | 12:08 |
| alterego | lolcat: I don't F*cking know, read the howto | 12:08 |
| alterego | You will more than likely need a Linux running computer .. | 12:08 |
| alterego | But don't ask questions that can all be answered in the installation howto. | 12:09 |
| alterego | Which you've clearly not read .. | 12:09 |
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| lolcat | Hmm | 12:15 |
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| lardman | morning all | 12:17 |
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| lardman | just a quickie, what does one need to put in a pro file to use qtmobility-12 ? | 12:17 |
| lardman | I seem to remember it was something like tack -12 onto the end of the names of the packages to be pulled in | 12:18 |
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| rafal_g | What's the best way of gettin QtMobility 1.1 on N900? | 12:20 |
| alterego | apt-get install | 12:20 |
| lardman | install it from Extras-devel? | 12:20 |
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| rafal_g | extras-devel you say? I'll have a look | 12:22 |
| lolcat | http://wiki.nitdroid.com/index.php?title=N900-Autoinstaller | 12:23 |
| lolcat | Is it that easy? | 12:23 |
| alterego | lolcat: really the wrong place to ask, follow the instructions. | 12:23 |
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| rafal_g | How do I get it from extras-devel? Do I have to add an entry to sources.list? | 12:27 |
| MohammadAG | #nitdroid | 12:28 |
| lardman | rafal_g: is this sb or on-device? | 12:28 |
| alterego | I'm sure there's a wiki page for this | 12:28 |
| rafal_g | lardman: I need both | 12:28 |
| lardman | on-device copy the Extras settings and just tack -devel on the end where Extras is | 12:29 |
| lardman | then take a look on-device in /etc/apt/* and see what it has done | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, CONFIG += mobility12 | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG | maemo5 { CONFIG += mobility12 } else { CONFIG += mobility } | 12:29 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o alterego | 12:29 | |
| lardman | MohammadAG: thanks, no - needed | 12:29 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o alterego | 12:30 | |
| rafal_g | lardman: Where do I copy it from? | 12:32 |
| lardman | you changed it in ham? | 12:35 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: ping | 12:36 |
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| lolcat | It told me to backup, any sence in doing that? | 12:38 |
| lolcat | And to update? | 12:38 |
| lolcat | And do I need a power kernel? | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: I'm not interested in what a android-installer tells you | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | take it elsewhere | 12:39 |
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| khertan | hum .... about update too :) | 12:39 |
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| khertan | i ve a little problem to install last maemo release | 12:39 |
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| khertan | ask me to backup | 12:40 |
| khertan | so i do it ... | 12:40 |
| khertan | but install stop | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | what does it say? | 12:40 |
| khertan | ok ... next time i ll read completely the message | 12:40 |
| khertan | :) | 12:40 |
| khertan | backup and connect it to your pc to flash it | 12:41 |
| khertan | :) | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a helpless way to tell you there've been problems with SSU | 12:41 |
| khertan | :) | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | either some incompatibilities or too few free space | 12:41 |
| khertan | i think that the pr1.1 was the reason | 12:42 |
| khertan | :) | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 12:42 |
| lardman | bbiab | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | though it *should* update a ootb PR1.1 OTA no problem. But takes ages | 12:43 |
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| khertan | oh to reboot an n900 ... remove the backcover while swap on sd | 12:45 |
| khertan | ... | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know better ways | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 12:45 |
| SpeedEvil | BTDT. | 12:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Thoughnot with n900 | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | but yeah I guess reboot is best the system can do | 12:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I've actually argued ages ago that it's not. | 12:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | Per-user swap would be a nice thing to add. | 12:47 |
| khertan | yeah ... open the keyboard violently | 12:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | So you can say 'only not-root gets to use this swap device' | 12:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: nice | 12:47 |
| khertan | oh ... funny default language after flash for regular n900 are english | 12:48 |
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| khertan | for the preproduction one it s finnish | 12:48 |
| khertan | :) | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil:taking into account we need a flashcontroller aware kswapd anyway, I'd say this goes hand in hand nicely together | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 12:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so who's taking it to LKML? | 12:50 |
| MohammadAG | cat /dev/kmem ftw | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehehe | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | you thieeeeef | 12:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I need to prepare a patch that will set first 1024 bytes in kmem all to "reboot (C) jr\nreboot (C)jr\n..." :-P | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh. http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets-accessories/wired-headsets/nokia-digital-radio-headset-dab | 12:53 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders. | 12:53 | |
| * SpeedEvil ponders abusing the Distance Selling Regulations to see if it could be made to work. | 12:54 | |
| SpeedEvil | Also. | 12:54 |
| SpeedEvil | WTF can't I buy the nice right-angled plug anywhere. | 12:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Grrrr. | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 12:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: my much cooler "echo heartbeat >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:b/trigger" is allegedly fixed :-/ | 12:57 |
| HRH_H_Crab | hey guys, i prob. don't say this enough and i idle in here a lot, so: | 12:57 |
| HRH_H_Crab | thanks to all of you who work on maemo & the free (as in speech and beer) software for n900. | 12:58 |
| HRH_H_Crab | it is awesome. | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | HRH_H_Crab: you're welcome, though we'd love to see you contribute | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, you just started | 12:59 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i dont program - im just a geeky end user, but i'll surely contribute to wiki / docs as appropriate if i get a chance! | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | as valuable a contribution as any other | 13:00 |
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| alterego | :) | 13:00 |
| alterego | HRH_H_Crab: sometimes it's nice to just know people appreciate our efforts ;) | 13:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Cash works too. | 13:01 |
| SpeedEvil | ;) | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | even just testing programs and giving feedback, esp about missing/defect things is valuable | 13:01 |
| SpeedEvil | But yes - testing or documentation, or help with bgfixes is valuable too. | 13:02 |
| HRH_H_Crab | alterego: i totally do. | 13:02 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i'll help as much as i can. | 13:03 |
| HRH_H_Crab | ive settled into a fairly comfortable useage pattern now though, so im not really trying new stuff much. | 13:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | start with documenting this usage pattern, so devels see what's the most used apps that are worth getting some love | 13:09 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | DocScrutinizer: and just post it on the forums? | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, you can do that. Or edit http://wiki.maemo.org/User:HRH_H_Crab(or whatever is your correct nick there) | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (heartbeat) iirc it only "works" when issues during screen off and ind-LED active | 13:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL, and it's fixed and *really* works (not as a reboot trigger) on PK | 13:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cat /sys/class/leds/lp5523:b/trigger ; #if you're curious | 13:24 |
| Venemo | [07:29] <krayon> Venemo: Any plans to make the pieces "puzzle" shaped? Not too difficult I would think and would make it even cooler. -> Yes, there are plans. I just haven't got to it yet. | 13:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: this MUST come with puzzle tiles rotatable then :-P | 13:26 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: tiles rotatable? wut? | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh sheeesch that's going to get difficult | 13:26 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: that would require some multitouch-wouldn't it | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | difficult was the multi-meaning keyword of my last line ;-) | 13:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: you could use gestures, like microB does, for zooming | 13:28 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I could imagine rotating the tiles with the multitouch pinch-to-rotate gesture (like on every crapdroid fone) | 13:28 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: but for single-touch, no idea | 13:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or simply double-click | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | to rotate 90° clockwise | 13:29 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: mhm | 13:29 |
| villager | perhaps the user could rotate the pieces by clicking away from their center-of-mass... | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 13:29 |
| villager | and dragging | 13:29 |
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| Venemo | so far, double click is the most user-friendy | 13:30 |
| lardman | re | 13:30 |
| Venemo | btw DocScrutinizer, in case you missed it: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=949457&postcount=38 | 13:31 |
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| rafal_g | how can I get extras-devel working in scratchbox? | 13:32 |
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| pupnik | nice demo of N8 running 13 apps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Z2fSBmptc [ Nokia N8 Multitasking Torture Test ] | 13:32 |
| Venemo | rafal_g: add the repo to /etc/apt/sources.list | 13:33 |
| Zeddy | Hey, how exactly do you export your calendar from the latest maemo firmware? | 13:33 |
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| Zeddy | i mean google exchange fails miserably, it takes 5 minutes and then it tells me that connection to exchange server fails | 13:33 |
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| Zeddy | i tried using wlan and 3G, same thing for both | 13:33 |
| rafal_g | Venemo: I've added deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free but it complains about Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' | 13:34 |
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| Venemo | rafal_g: mhm | 13:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pffff 13 apps. I find myself running 13 terminals by accident, in addition to quite some other crap | 13:35 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :) | 13:36 |
| * BCMM hands DocScrutinizer his free copy of GNU Screen | 13:36 | |
| * khertan use often more than 20 terminal | 13:36 | |
| khertan | :) | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: meh screen, taskswitcher muuuuuuch nicer | 13:36 |
| khertan | i agree | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus with MHD I got much easier shortcuts to switch between screens/terminals | 13:37 |
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| Zeddy | whats gonna become of the maemo community now? | 13:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a crown of creaming monkeys - it's Frifay afternon now ;-P | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | crowd* | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn | 13:39 |
| Venemo | Zeddy: most people will go to the MeeGo community (probably only after there is some really usable MeeGo), the rest is gonna go to android or whatever, and some people will remain at hacking good old Maemo | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | a crowd of creaming monkeys - it's Friday afternon now ;-P | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | a crowd of screaming monkeys - it's Friday afternon now ;-P | 13:40 |
| villager | Zeddy: well if all else fails, you can try SyncEvolution... even if you don't want to sync with a server, it has command-line options for dumping the PIM databases to files (mainly for debugging, but can be useful)... | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | see what I mean :-P | 13:40 |
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| * DocScrutinizer takes a note in callendar about the day he broke the record of typos in one post | 13:41 | |
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| Zeddy | :p | 13:41 |
| Zeddy | my school just gave me a htc desire hd and told me to start developing apps for it instead | 13:42 |
| Zeddy | kinda sad that i took all that time to learn Qt and then they just drop it | 13:42 |
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| Robot101 | you can get qt on android :P | 13:42 |
| trx | u can use qt even on win | 13:42 |
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| crashanddie | You can even say "you" instead of "u" | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo community existed pror to N900, it will stay around when N900 is dead and forgotten | 13:43 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: "plus with MHD I got much easier shortcuts to switch between screens/terminals" - talking about ctrl-backspace-as-alt-tab, or something xterm-specific? | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | prior* damn what's with my fingers?! | 13:43 |
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| niala_ | question: what is the maximum resolution that can be played on the n900 | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ctl-bs | 13:43 |
| Zeddy | qt and android is still so alphabeta it can get | 13:43 |
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| niala_ | i mean n900 on a tv | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | PAL | 13:44 |
| trx | crashanddie is is so terrible to say "u" instead of "you"? | 13:44 |
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| villager | trx: yes | 13:44 |
| Robot101 | yes - IRC doesn't have a 160 character limit :) | 13:44 |
| Robot101 | we have as many characters as we want, to express ourselves clearly, with no additional charge! | 13:45 |
| trx | they why are you using stuff like AFAIK, IIRC, etc? | 13:45 |
| trx | then* | 13:45 |
| villager | Robot101: as a faq I once read said - so each additional character you write saves you money! | 13:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | trx: it's about convention, about crashanddie's mood, and of course about readability and compression factor ;-D | 13:46 |
| trx | :) | 13:47 |
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| trx | ok, i will have that in mind next time i want to say something.. | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | u instead of you has a really poor factor of 3:1 and a poor uniqueness | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd let users get away with it if they are really in a hurry all the time, like raster. crashanddie kicks :-P | 13:48 |
| ruskie | Robot101, IRC does have a char limit | 13:49 |
| ruskie | it depends on the irc server | 13:49 |
| *** andrenarchy has left #maemo | 13:49 | |
| ruskie | but generally ~512 chars is the average norm... some do 1024... then they cut off the rest | 13:49 |
| ruskie | that's why things like splitlong.pl in irssi exist... | 13:50 |
| crashanddie | I don't kick | 13:51 |
| crashanddie | I haven't kicked in ages | 13:51 |
| villager | besides, things like "AFAIK" are acronyms, while "u" is not an acronym, just ugly... | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | TOPICLEN=390 | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: you kicked raster | 13:51 |
| crashanddie | when? | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | for using 'u' | 13:51 |
| crashanddie | I did? | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | last time he's been here :-P | 13:51 |
| crashanddie | or because he was a dick afterwards? | 13:51 |
| Venemo | lol | 13:52 |
| ruskie | *yawn* | 13:52 |
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| deno | hi there | 13:57 |
| deno | can you tell me why did you set fifo_mode = 5 instead of fifo_mode = 4? | 13:57 |
| deno | for the h-e-n team :) | 13:57 |
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| MohammadAG | all patches are commented on in the git repsotiroy | 13:58 |
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| deno | MohammadAG, thx | 14:03 |
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| niala_ | question: synergy run on maemo ? | 14:07 |
| Venemo | how ridiculous is this? M$ disallows FOSS apps in their marketplace. | 14:09 |
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| lolcat | Meh, android sucked hard | 14:11 |
| Venemo | lolcat: why the past tense? it sucks hard. | 14:11 |
| lolcat | In the sence I won't be using it anymore | 14:11 |
| lolcat | Didn't show me spotify | 14:12 |
| ruskie | niala_, you mean synergy2 ? should work... both are X | 14:12 |
| lolcat | Trying to do the recommended steps to get spotify, it crashed | 14:12 |
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| niala_ | ruskie, i mean to share keyboard from my desktop to n900 | 14:13 |
| ruskie | niala_, yeah... should work... both are X | 14:13 |
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| lolcat | Maybe I should try meego some day | 14:13 |
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| niala_ | niala_, niala_ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=synergy+maemo | 14:13 |
| ruskie | lolcat, maybe you'll have a better reaction it's UX than I did... | 14:14 |
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| lolcat | UX? | 14:15 |
| niala_ | lolcat, you can try on sd card with no changing maemo. | 14:15 |
| niala_ | i believe | 14:15 |
| lolcat | I think so | 14:15 |
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| lolcat | Can't be bothered now | 14:15 |
| ruskie | user experience... aka UI and it's use and feel ;) | 14:15 |
| lolcat | Starting to show symptoms of sleep deprevation now | 14:16 |
| lolcat | I am getting a new phone company soon | 14:16 |
| lolcat | 2/3 | 14:16 |
| BCMM | on no account sign any contracts when sleep-deprived. | 14:17 |
| lolcat | Trust me, this is a good idea | 14:18 |
| * lolcat has started sleeping every other day | 14:18 | |
| lolcat | 48 houres awake, 16 houres sleep | 14:19 |
| BCMM | there was some record-holdingly-old person who for some reason slept for two days then stayed awake for two days | 14:19 |
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| BCMM | (not as a way of becoming very old) | 14:20 |
| ruskie | lolcat, that works great... if you don't actually have work and such like... | 14:20 |
| BCMM | does that actually work, long term | 14:20 |
| BCMM | ? | 14:20 |
| BCMM | it sounds like a terrible idea | 14:20 |
| ruskie | according to various research not really | 14:20 |
| ruskie | i.e. does it work | 14:20 |
| BCMM | if it does work, it also sounds like it would be pretty hard to get in to, and once in to it, even harder to get out of | 14:20 |
| BCMM | (if you had to be in real life for a bit) | 14:20 |
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| lolcat | I don't have any real-life duties | 14:21 |
| ruskie | I used to have similar things when I was younger... | 14:21 |
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| lolcat | Or, I am expected to show up at the university 6 houres a week | 14:21 |
| BCMM | also, it doesn't even stay in phase with real days | 14:21 |
| lolcat | on three diffrent days | 14:21 |
| ruskie | then I discovered that 8h/day sleep is just right for my needs... | 14:21 |
| * SpeedEvil wants a 28h or so day | 14:22 | |
| * ruskie wants to work for 6h/day sleep for 8h/day and the rest have it to himself... | 14:22 | |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/rim_india/ <-- seriously... give it a rest... | 14:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'Having threatened to ban the service, and repeatedly petitioned RIM to do the impossible,' - missing the point | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It is not impossible for RIM to change their buisness model to facilitate government. | 14:25 |
| ruskie | :) | 14:26 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/stop_offering_me_stuff_i_must_pay_for_metropcs/ <-- hmm | 14:26 |
| ruskie | especially the last bit of that article is interesting | 14:26 |
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| flux | well, their argument makes sense if without the extra $10-$20 they (try to) block all music transfers from the web | 14:35 |
| flux | but not, if for $10-$20 they are providing their own music streaming (or whatever) service | 14:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to all those constantly searching for something to hack up: fix powertop so it works correctly with powerkernel | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | powertop has no source | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | that should get fixed as well, it's GPL isn't it? | 14:38 |
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| ruskie | http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/download/powertop-1.13.tar.gz <-- erm... is it any different than this? | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's utterly unrelated. | 14:38 |
| ruskie | other than by name? | 14:38 |
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| ruskie | I thought it was the same thing... | 14:39 |
| ruskie | just ported over... | 14:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | They're totally unrelated - there was a request to open powertop, but it was a won'tfix IIRC | 14:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd say they are just enough related to force Nokia to obey GPL and open up the source | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a flat reimplementation. | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd say there are no grounds at all. | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt that | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Why? Look at powertop, look at the other powertop. | 14:40 |
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| ruskie | why not just adjust the proper powertop to work on it? | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | There is little reason to believe they have shared code | 14:41 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah I doubt there's any shared code | 14:44 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I also implemented your feature request btw :) | 14:47 |
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| ruskie | hmm where exactly is powertop hidden? in what repo? | 14:54 |
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| ruskie | I can't find it in my scratchbox install even though I have nokia binaries, tools sdk and all the extras enabled... | 14:54 |
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| visz | ehlo | 14:56 |
| visz | <3 nokia | 14:57 |
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| visz | To assist you with your development activities in the near-term, we will ship one free Nokia E7 device to all program members. Additionally, we will send to you one free Nokia WP7 device, as soon as it becomes available. | 14:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | On the basis of what ? | 14:58 |
| ruskie | rofl | 14:58 |
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| visz | launchpad member | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | A free nokia WP7 device might be fun to see if you can root it. | 14:58 |
| chx | and then? | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Profit! | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 14:59 |
| chx | you do not have anything to put on it | 15:00 |
| chx | maemo is abandoned if i understand correctly | 15:00 |
| * SpeedEvil imagines CSSU for noksofts. | 15:00 | |
| chx | and who knows what happens to meego | 15:00 |
| jarkkom_ | WP7 got rooted about week after being on sale | 15:00 |
| BCMM | chx: and then? install maemo! | 15:00 |
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| BCMM | (yes i know, drivers) | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | By rooted, I man sufficient to run a linux kernel supporting all of the features of the device. | 15:00 |
| chx | why not install maemo on the G2 then | 15:00 |
| chx | the hardware drives me to "want" | 15:01 |
| jarkkom_ | SpeedEvil, not sure about maemo/meego but android probably would be fairly straightforward since AFAIK wp7 phones are based on qualcomm chipsets and there's tons of similar android phones out already | 15:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | I just think it'd be amusing to post about a free windows dev device that I'd got meego running on it. :) | 15:03 |
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| flux | maybe you could hack it to use the windows drivers ;) | 15:04 |
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| BCMM | how hard is it to make android drivers work with a proper kernel? | 15:09 |
| ruskie | I thought they were just kernel modules? | 15:11 |
| ruskie | and still loaded as kernel modules | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: ruskie: ask mickeyl, I heard him swear about annoyance in doing exactly that | 15:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, you're right. Powertop of maemo and x86-intel powertop seem to be completely disjunkt | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I could go into RE mode, and compare the regenerated sourcecode, but that's not on my todo list of today | 15:23 |
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| visz | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/18/nokia-giving-developers-free-e7-and-nokia-wp7-device-when-availa/ | 15:34 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, comparing strings shows 2 completly different things... | 15:34 |
| ruskie | the nokia one also has a reference to: pmtrackerdaemon | 15:35 |
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| ruskie | but the diff is very obvious... nokia one only references like 6 or 7 /sys nodes while powertop has 40+ | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: I know, as that's exactly what I did :-) | 15:37 |
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| ruskie | :) | 15:37 |
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| * ruskie needs to try making his own theme sometime... a bit more modified than his current just change the colour of digital nature theme... | 15:38 | |
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| Jaffa | visz: Yeah, I got that email. | 15:38 |
| ShadowJK | intel powertop gropes a large number of /sys nodes to offer tune-up advice | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root IroN900 'strings `which powertop`' | sort >xxx1 | 15:38 |
| ruskie | nice hostname ;) | 15:39 |
| ruskie | mine is baldr | 15:39 |
| ShadowJK | nokia powertop is more basic, but has more detailed statistics on Arm than intel powertop on intel cpus | 15:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ...and gives me >> 1150 MHz | nan% | << for % in CPU freq, on PK :-S | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even though it's NOT OC'd! (as you might have guessed) | 15:41 |
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| OkropNick | It would be nice for me to use shutter button for song changing (next button). Any ideal how to do that? | 15:44 |
| OkropNick | I mean on N900 | 15:44 |
| ruskie | shortcud? | 15:44 |
| ruskie | erm shortcutd | 15:44 |
| ruskie | or some other tool... iirc there is something to do such crazy things... | 15:44 |
| OkropNick | ruskie: thx, I'll check it :) | 15:45 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/vodafone_intel/ | 15:48 |
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| rafal_g | I've installed QtMobility 1.1 on scratchbox but it's installed in /opt/qtm11 | 15:55 |
| rafal_g | How do I use those libraries then? | 15:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cd /sys/class/leds/lp5523:r; echo timer >trigger ; echo 1000 >delay_on; echo 500 >delay_off | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas mce is ruining everything in a matter of seconds | 15:56 |
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| Venemo | [14:40] <DocScrutinizer> ...and gives me >> 1150 MHz ----> yes, we know you OC'd your n900! | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | :NAN%: | 15:58 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: you're just trying to keep it a secret. | 15:59 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :P | 15:59 |
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| kerio | OMFG YOU HAVE AN IMAGINARY CPU | 15:59 |
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| Venemo | kerio: he has an N910 | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, so PSHHHH! | 15:59 |
| Venemo | xD | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd rather keep secret I never ever tested OC | 16:00 |
| kerio | N900i | 16:00 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: me neither | 16:01 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: my N900 is, and has always been snappy | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | just fine as is | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | no fsckng need to OC or swap nbattery for a 6V type | 16:02 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: when I read from people who say it's slow or sluggish, it surprises me | 16:02 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: as I haven't discovered what to do with N900 to make it sluggish | 16:02 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: except running HAM, of course :P | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that, or running flash in microB | 16:02 |
| Corsac | just let it run for a few days | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | t900:/sys/class/leds/lp5523:r# uptime | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | 15:03:31 up 15 days, 1:12, load average: 0.01, 0.00, 0.00 | 16:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# uptime | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | 15:03 24 Tage 18:38 an, 0 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 0,06, 0,04, 0,00 | 16:04 |
| E0x | tage ? | 16:04 |
| OkropNick | ruskie: thank You, this is EXACTLY what I needed! | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | bash? | 16:04 |
| sig^ | E0x: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lang=en&search=tage | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 0 users part is funny though | 16:06 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: did you ever figure what /dev/twl4030-adc was? | 16:06 |
| Venemo | E0x: 'tage' = 'days' [German] | 16:07 |
| alterego | I'm guessing it's an interface to A/D converter channels. | 16:07 |
| E0x | ok ,thx | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: It's the ADC on the GAIA - it's connected to various stuff | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: should, yes | 16:07 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: cool, what kind of stuff is it connected to? | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: For example, I think another battery voltage sensor | 16:07 |
| alterego | Ah, neat. | 16:07 |
| alterego | I guess I should look at the schematic? | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Probably, yes. | 16:07 |
| alterego | m'kay | 16:07 |
| vi_ | is the battery voltage sensor on the i2c bus? | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Not that one. | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a resistive divider, connected to the ADC | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | err - I may mean the battery capacitive sensor | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a seperate bq* chip that does battery voltage on the I2C bus - search wiki for charge monitor | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | BSI, bat_temp, some other cruft | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# lsof|grep adc | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | bme_RX-51 735 root 3r CHR 10,63 1639 /dev/twl4030-adc | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | GRRRR | 16:10 |
| vi_ | can we write values to the bq chip? i.e. change some values to have it charge the battery to 4.3 volts instaed of 4.2? | 16:10 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: :D | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi_: yes, that's exactly the stuff you could do and Nokia is SCARED of you doing it. Me too | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | WHY THE FUCK would you want to do that? | 16:12 |
| lardman | portable pocket fireball machine? | 16:12 |
| * lardman visualises the burning lithium | 16:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, it just will destroy your batery cell, but without any noticable effect beyond it failing | 16:13 |
| vi_ | to eek a few extra mAh outta the battery at the expense of battery lifespan | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi_: you're a moron | 16:13 |
| vi_ | not true | 16:13 |
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| vi_ | 4.2v is the optimal balance between battery lifespan and charge capacity | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, 4.2 is the max rated cell voltage | 16:14 |
| vi_ | it can be charged ever so slightly over 4.2v | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi_: you're a moron | 16:15 |
| vi_ | actually i am an electronic engineer you unqualified charlitan | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | then you should know it gains you maybe 30mAh to charge the cell to 4.3 | 16:16 |
| Shadikka | it would actually be a rather comical self-destruct function with SMSCON or something. | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | while wear will go up by a factor 10..50 | 16:17 |
| kerio | >charlitan | 16:17 |
| kerio | wtf | 16:17 |
| Shadikka | And yes, I know you couldn't probably actually light the battery on fire that way. | 16:17 |
| kerio | misspelling your insults is probably the worst thing you can do | 16:17 |
| kerio | because it makes you look line a uneducated moron | 16:18 |
| kerio | *like | 16:18 |
| kerio | (gah, i knew it - fucking muphry's law) | 16:18 |
| nid0 | moran, surely! | 16:18 |
| kerio | my point still stands | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | so next time you get LESS capacity even when charging it to 4.3, due to damage done to cell chemistry | 16:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | This also applies at 4.2 | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | A li-ion only ever charged to 4.1 will maintain capacity a _lot_ longer | 16:20 |
| _trine | can someone tell me the keys to press to reduce the size of the font when in a terminal on the N900 | 16:20 |
| kerio | - | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | _trine: volume keys | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I meant less than for a proper 4.2 charge cycle, without the damage done by 4.3 | 16:20 |
| _trine | thanks | 16:20 |
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| NIN101 | If I write data to a device on my N900 through USB mass storage mode, is data cached somewhere (insecurely) before it finally arrives the device? | 16:21 |
| _trine | SpeedEvil, I did know that once then i forgot it | 16:21 |
| NIN101 | device = /dev/something | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | NIN101: What do you mean 'insecurely' ? | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | NIN101: sync | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | In general, it's written out every at most 30s or so probably | 16:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Unless the system is busy | 16:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: 4.2: 1256mAh, 1255mAh, 1255mAh, 1254mAh;; 4.3: 1280mAh, 1221mAh, 1150mAh... | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes, I know | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Laptop batteries, for example - can be nearly 'as new' if you only charge them to ~85% or so | 16:23 |
| NIN101 | So for example a truecrypt mapped device, exposed to mass storage mode with /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh . Wouldn't be cool if data which should be stored encrypted is cached and later somehow accessable. | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Whereas they may hit 85% capacity in 100 'normal' discharge cycles | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | NIN101: you need to encrypt swap too | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I feel sorry with whoever employer has to live with vi_ as EE | 16:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not quite an invalid question - there are occasions when you know that you value the one-time life more than the cyclic. | 16:25 |
| NIN101 | yeah, I thought the same SpeedEvil. | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | one time life of 4.3 is just about one week standby, then damage done and battery selfdischarged to less than what you'd have with 4.2 | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | yup | 16:26 |
| nid0 | cool if you can afford a new battery every week | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | also the additional capacity is really marginal and negligible | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I wasn't meaning so much in the phone use - but I'm also involved in a group that sends up balloons, with trackers on. | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a valid usecase, ok :-D | 16:27 |
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| vi_ | oh no, someone is attacking your dogma doc, best ad hominem fast. | 16:28 |
| vi_ | wanker | 16:28 |
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| *** vi_ was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 16:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, even insults to chanops aren't tolerated here | 16:29 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 16:29 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | (i'm well aware moron isn't a nice name either, but it's to the point, while wanker... well :-P) | 16:30 |
| vi_ | your actions speak louder than words doc | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | your words are louder than your rationale | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and you've been warned now | 16:32 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: hmm... you... stupid! | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, stupid is an atribute I'm pleased to duscuss | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | discuss* | 16:33 |
| kerio | you're ugly! | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | agreed | 16:33 |
| kerio | you fight like a dairy farmer! | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | though my mother would beat you :-P | 16:34 |
| LjL | you're an op on irc! | 16:34 |
| LjL | sorry, sorry, that was too much | 16:34 |
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| kerio | LjL: dude, that was cold | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I hate that | 16:34 |
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| vi_ | so i ask a question that you dont really know the answer to, you call me a moron then kick me when i have the audacity to retaliate | 16:35 |
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| nid0 | you did actually get an answer | 16:36 |
| nid0 | for what its worth | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I missed the question. Can you repeat it please? | 16:36 |
| * FauxFaux hands vi_ and DocScrutinizer "Congratulations, you're twelve." awards. | 16:36 | |
| sig^ | calling people moron isn't nice I: | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | agreed | 16:37 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: I've spoken with apes more polite than you! | 16:37 |
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| sig^ | politemen | 16:38 |
| *** DocScrutinizer was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 16:38 | |
| kerio | HE WAS KICKED FOR OUR SINS! | 16:38 |
| NIN101 | lol | 16:38 |
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| flat` | :D | 16:39 |
| flat` | aww | 16:39 |
| RST38h | Ho ho ho | 16:39 |
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| kerio | he's back! | 16:51 |
| kerio | faster than jesus too | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have to apologize to whole channel, and especially to vi_ | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously in a inappropriate state of mind today | 16:52 |
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| *** DocScrutinizer was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 16:53 | |
| kerio | wait, what | 16:54 |
| E0x | lol | 16:55 |
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| kerio | and now he won't come back anymore | 16:56 |
| kerio | like jesus ._. | 16:56 |
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| doc|home | kerio: depends on whose opinion on that it is that you're listening to | 17:01 |
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| kerio | well since he never actually existed i doubt he can come back | 17:05 |
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| kerio | jesus, not docscrutinizer | 17:05 |
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| crashanddie | anyone calling someone else a wanker in this channel deserves to be banned, regardless. | 17:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | hey | 17:12 |
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| Venemo_N900 | is there some command to shut down the keyboard leds? | 17:13 |
| visz | i wonder if you could use a usb ethernet adaptor with n900 otg | 17:13 |
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| kerio | i don't get it, what's with the negative connotations related to masturbation? | 17:14 |
| Venemo_N900 | kerio: ? | 17:15 |
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| trx | visz i use one all the time | 17:15 |
| nid0 | Venemo_N900: as in, why is a wanker a bad thing | 17:15 |
| nid0 | I assume | 17:15 |
| visz | wow | 17:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | mhm | 17:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | ok, solved | 17:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | trick the ALS to turn off the keyboard lights, then do modprobe -r leds-lp5523 | 17:16 |
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| alterego | What's twl4030_wdt? | 17:27 |
| alterego | :) | 17:27 |
| * alterego googles | 17:28 | |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, vibrator | 17:29 |
| alterego | watchdog :P | 17:29 |
| MohammadAG | twl4030:vibrator | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG | my bad :P | 17:30 |
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| * jonwil is tempted to reverse engineer all the places the dialer app talks to anything lower level that isn't a GUI call (or something like glib or libc) so that everything one needs to know to write a new dialer would be documented | 17:31 | |
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| jonwil | although that still wont catch all the wierd corner cases | 17:32 |
| jonwil | and the special stuff that goes on | 17:32 |
| jonwil | so its not really going to help at all | 17:32 |
| Necc | i smell paranoidism? | 17:32 |
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| jonwil | :P | 17:33 |
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| jonwil | The only way we are going to be able to implement features like call filtering, converting a voice call into a cheaper VoIP call etc is if hell freezes over and Nokia releases the dialer source :P | 17:34 |
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| Venemo_N900 | jonwil: or just wait for MeeGo where all the relevant stuff is OSS | 17:35 |
| jonwil | :P | 17:35 |
| jonwil | in any case doesn't matter to me | 17:35 |
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| jonwil | The stuff at http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages#List_of_outstanding_requests_that_are_still_relevant covers the issues and things I actually care about | 17:36 |
| jonwil | like Cell Broadcast SMS | 17:36 |
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| alterego | Nice old news on the forum.nokia site: "promo | 17:47 |
| alterego | icon | 17:47 |
| alterego | Nokia Focusing on Qt, Will Extend Reach for Developers" | 17:47 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: wtf? | 17:47 |
| Venemo_N900 | jonnylamb_: ping | 17:47 |
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| alterego | I'm just saying that they're still "promoting" Qt on the forum Nokia website. | 17:47 |
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| Venemo_N900 | alterego: of course they are | 17:52 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: forum nokia will probably promote Qt forever | 17:52 |
| khertan | alterego, but not for wp7 :) | 17:52 |
| Venemo_N900 | WP7 is supported by MSDN enough. no need for forum nokia to support it | 17:53 |
| khertan | Venemo_N900, hum ... did you mean that noone should support wp7 :) | 17:53 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan: MSDN has 98654334568 articles for wp7 and sl. why should anyone bother rewriting them? | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | wow | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | All 6 WP7 phone owners must be chuffed there's so many pages dedicated to them. | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 17:55 |
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| deno | ls | 17:56 |
| jaska | cd .. | 17:56 |
| MohammadAG | rm -rf... | 17:56 |
| deno | sudo reboot | 17:57 |
| deno | lol | 17:57 |
| deno | wrong window :) | 17:57 |
| rjel | rm /lib/glib* | 17:57 |
| rmrfchik | rmrfchik bless rm /lib | 17:57 |
| Venemo_N900 | crashanddie: also there are the blogs of MS zealots which also have lots of info on it | 17:57 |
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| rjel | rm /lib/libc* even ;) | 17:58 |
| khertan | Venemo_N900, yep why should anyone bother writing app for them | 17:58 |
| deno | reboot me && apt-get source LeonardoDaVinci-kernel | 17:58 |
| deno | now I have to compile and flash it | 17:58 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan: actually, it's a lot easier than writing apps in C or C++, IMO | 17:58 |
| khertan | Venemo_N900, mouarf | 17:59 |
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| khertan | Venemo_N900, it s easier to write app in python/qt than C# | 17:59 |
| khertan | :) | 17:59 |
| khertan | Venemo_N900, at least MeeGo/Maemo give the choice to developpers | 17:59 |
| Venemo_N900 | khertan: I was a .NET dev for a long time | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | tbh | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | I find C++ easier than Python | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | :p | 18:00 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, exactly ... it s a developper choice | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | yep | 18:00 |
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| khertan | i ve made a dropbox clone in 100 line of code in python for the server and 100 other line for the client with a rsync style for sending modifications only :) | 18:01 |
| * MohammadAG tests his app | 18:01 | |
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| MohammadAG | Now listening to "Forever and Always" by "Bullet For My Valentine" | 18:01 |
| MohammadAG | yay | 18:02 |
| * khertan is listening Bring them to light - Apocalyptica | 18:02 | |
| MohammadAG | that's not on the N900 :p | 18:02 |
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| Venemo_N900 | I would prefer developing in C# anytime. it's just that easier. | 18:03 |
| Venemo_N900 | C++ with Qt is almost that easy too | 18:03 |
| flailingmonkey | isn't it all forced to be silverlight though | 18:03 |
| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: correct | 18:03 |
| alterego | C# is only easier because MSVS is more featureful. | 18:04 |
| alterego | I guess the language maybe a little easier, but then I'm pretty proficient with both so I can't really say :) | 18:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: it's equally as easy in monodevelop too. | 18:04 |
| flailingmonkey | MSVS... is so god damn gigantic | 18:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: have you heard about linq? | 18:05 |
| alterego | Yes | 18:05 |
| alterego | Heard about, never used. | 18:05 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: if only Qt had anything like it... | 18:05 |
| alterego | Meh | 18:06 |
| alterego | What's wrong with SQL :P | 18:06 |
| flailingmonkey | it's not really something that makes sense in Qt | 18:06 |
| Venemo_N900 | not talking about linq to sql | 18:06 |
| flailingmonkey | shoe horning functional programming in C#, was my impression of linq | 18:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | let's say I have an array of items in which I want to find something | 18:07 |
| drj_cro | vleave | 18:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | in C++, I have to write a 5-line loop | 18:07 |
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| Venemo_N900 | in C#, it's 1 line linq | 18:07 |
| flailingmonkey | except when people don't use linq :p | 18:08 |
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| flailingmonkey | it's possible to make it one line w/ linq | 18:08 |
| FauxFaux | Venemo_N900: std::find(list, [i] { return i.bar() == 5; }); | 18:08 |
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| Venemo_N900 | FauxFaux: what syntax is that? | 18:08 |
| FauxFaux | A guess at the C++0x lambda syntax. | 18:08 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, functional programming shoe horned into object oriented programming | 18:08 |
| FauxFaux | Probably has a () in there too. | 18:08 |
| flailingmonkey | functions as first class objects, which you can pass around like any other object | 18:09 |
| Venemo_N900 | FauxFaux: if C++0x was done, I would use this :) | 18:09 |
| flailingmonkey | possibly even modify, but I dunno what linq specifically is like | 18:09 |
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| FauxFaux | You probably actually have to write int bar; std::find(foo, [bar](T t) -> boolean { return t.foo() == bar; }); // but it's still pretty good. | 18:10 |
| Venemo_N900 | myItem = items.Single(x => x.Name == "Joe"); | 18:10 |
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| FauxFaux | (Too used to Haskell; which is basically C++; filter (\x -> foo x == bar) list.) | 18:11 |
| flailingmonkey | still, you'll probably see people use the 5 line C# instead of LINQ. not just because they are more familiar with that way, but it is also easier to read | 18:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | myItems = items.Where(x => x.LastName == "Smith").OrderBy(x => x.BirthDate).ThenBy(x => x.FirstName); | 18:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | how may lines would this take in C++? | 18:11 |
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| MohammadAG | 1 if you don't use line breaks :p | 18:12 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG: exactly ;) | 18:12 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: it'll be a long way before you reach lcuk's sense of humor. | 18:13 |
| flailingmonkey | Venemo_N900: that is one ugly jumble of code. less lines not better | 18:13 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk's sense of humor is unique, no one can reach it | 18:13 |
| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: it is very well understandable and does works well. | 18:13 |
| MohammadAG | actually, it can take 0 lines | 18:13 |
| MohammadAG | if you write to /dev/null | 18:14 |
| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: even if you write the method calls to separate lines, it'll be shorter than the C++ counterpart | 18:14 |
| flailingmonkey | Venemo_N900: I believe it works, but it isn't going to be more maintainable that way | 18:14 |
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| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: many developers disagree with you. | 18:14 |
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| flailingmonkey | Venemo_N900: many developers don't know how to write maintainable code either :p | 18:15 |
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| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: the ability to write nonmaintainable code is language-independent :P | 18:15 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, \@ | 18:15 |
| Venemo_N900 | anyway, my point is: I wanna C++0x features!!! | 18:15 |
| flailingmonkey | passing functions as first-class objects is a great language feature though | 18:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: yes | 18:16 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, @/ to you too :p | 18:16 |
| MohammadAG | what's @/ :P | 18:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: it is possible in C++ too, via function pointers | 18:16 |
| lcuk | angry old man waving his walking stick at you youngsters | 18:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | flailingmonkey: just there's no lambdas in C++ | 18:16 |
| MohammadAG | us whipper snappers? | 18:16 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: you are not old :P | 18:16 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 18:17 |
| lcuk | I will be on Sunday | 18:17 |
| lcuk | a whole 36 | 18:17 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, it can be done, but the syntax to do it is much uglier compared to C# | 18:17 |
| MohammadAG | 36 isn't old | 18:17 |
| MohammadAG | 69 is | 18:17 |
| flailingmonkey | or LINQ | 18:17 |
| * MohammadAG giggles | 18:17 | |
| lcuk | 68 is fun, not old. | 18:17 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: I'm only 20 | 18:17 |
| MohammadAG | you're 20 | 18:17 |
| * lcuk has a dream of sitting on park bench with Tracy at that sorta age :) | 18:17 | |
| Venemo_N900 | :) | 18:18 |
| lcuk | haven't decided which bench yet lol | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG | you're 20?* | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG | i thought you were 18 | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG | am I the youngest on the channel? :p | 18:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: I turned to 20 at 22 january | 18:20 |
| lcuk | happy belated birthday Venemo_N900 | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | very belated* :p | 18:20 |
| lcuk | did you add a birthday cake picture to your app to celebrate? | 18:20 |
| Venemo_N900 | thanks :) | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | I like how angry birds seasons turned into a love theme on 14/2 | 18:21 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: it didn't occour me to do so | 18:21 |
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| MohammadAG | I wanted to do that with PSFreedom, but that app is basically dead | 18:21 |
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| lcuk | Venemo_N900, there are a lot of amazingly good cakes | 18:22 |
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| slonopotamus | X-Fade: ping | 18:23 |
| lcuk | ask noobmonkey, his wife bakes cakes :) and he is a great photographer | 18:23 |
| Venemo_N900 | it's a bit lat now | 18:23 |
| Venemo_N900 | but I will add cakes at your birthay :P | 18:23 |
| Venemo_N900 | when is it gonna be? | 18:23 |
| lcuk | Sunday | 18:23 |
| * lcuk is going to Manchester Museum of Science and Industry :) | 18:24 | |
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| Venemo_N900 | the day after tomorrow? nice! | 18:24 |
| lcuk | they have a replica of the Manchester Mark I | 18:24 |
| lcuk | a huge room spanning computer | 18:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | what's Manchester Mark I? | 18:24 |
| lcuk | that writes love letters :) | 18:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | :) | 18:24 |
| lcuk | Venemo_N900, it was the evolution of the Manchester Baby and was one of the first stored program computers | 18:25 |
| lcuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Mark_1 | 18:25 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: nice | 18:25 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: of couse, stored program computer was also invented by a Hungarian | 18:26 |
| lcuk | awesome | 18:26 |
| lcuk | who? | 18:27 |
| Necc | Janos Neumann | 18:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: John Neumann | 18:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | lcuk: or Neumann János, as we call him | 18:27 |
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| mullein | is there or will there be a squeeze version of the maemo sdk? | 18:33 |
| slonopotamus | mullein: no | 18:34 |
| mullein | thanks | 18:34 |
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| slonopotamus | mullein: err... did you mean "installable on squeeze" or "with squeeze-based contents"? | 18:35 |
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| mullein | at the moment just installable on squeeze | 18:36 |
| mullein | i'd prefer a debian package over running the installer script | 18:36 |
| slonopotamus | huh. take virtualbox/vmware sdk image, it does the least pollution of host system | 18:37 |
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| mullein | yeah that's probably what i'll do | 18:38 |
| slonopotamus | and, actually, virtualbox image is upgradable to ubuntu 10.04 (haven't tried 10.10) | 18:39 |
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| mullein | actually i'll probably do a debian lenny install into a fresh virtualbox image and then install maemo sdk in that | 18:45 |
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| kerio | lenny? D: | 18:50 |
| kerio | it's awfully outdated! | 18:50 |
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| crashanddie | It's only a couple years old | 18:52 |
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| Venemo_N900 | ~ping | 18:58 |
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| infobot | ~pong | 18:58 |
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| kerio | crashanddie: it's worse than the stable | 19:00 |
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| crashanddie | kerio, well, squeeze hasn't been out for so long | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | I'm still installing etch machines at work :) | 19:08 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, yo. | 19:17 |
| crashanddie | yo | 19:17 |
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| piggz | qt, code once, run on meego, maemo, symbian, desktop and android http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvDDu9GXoLI .... very cool proof of concept | 19:28 |
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| MohammadAG | Qt isn't a concept | 19:30 |
| piggz | MohammadAG: no, but the android bit is | 19:30 |
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| MohammadAG | ah | 19:31 |
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| slonopotamus | meh. looks like https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/curl_7.18.2-8lenny4 hanged | 19:33 |
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| Venemo_N900 | piggz: how well does it actually work on android? | 19:38 |
| piggz | Venemo_N900: no idea, just saw the video on twitter | 19:38 |
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| piggz | Venemo_N900: wow, even qt creator integration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_zPnQrM6E&NR=1&feature=fvwp | 19:42 |
| lardman | I seem to be getting QContact stuff pulled in from /usr/include while all the rest of my includes are from opt, how does Qt get its include paths from CONFIG += mobility12? | 19:45 |
| Venemo_N900 | hm pig | 19:46 |
| Venemo_N900 | hm piggz | 19:46 |
| Venemo_N900 | interesting | 19:46 |
| piggz | Venemo_N900: certainly.....i like the idea of developing for n900, meego, symbian and android from one codebase | 19:48 |
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| RST38h | ...They point out that, weight-for-weight, pure silver is cheaper than most tablets, and that, like jewelery, tablets are highly thievable... | 20:12 |
| ccooke | RST38h: it's true. | 20:12 |
| javispedro | oth, if you try to steal your averagely nerd cs student's computer... | 20:14 |
| GAN900 | Tablets are strange | 20:15 |
| GAN900 | Who wants to hold an iPad in their hands all day? | 20:15 |
| GAN900 | Except people who think it's fashionable. | 20:15 |
| javispedro | or apple heads ;) | 20:16 |
| javispedro | saw lots of them, even at the microsoft presentation | 20:16 |
| RST38h | same people | 20:16 |
| wmarone | iPads are stupidly popular | 20:17 |
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| javispedro | I'm sick of the word exciting. | 20:19 |
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| GAN900 | Exciting community ecosystems! | 20:20 |
| javispedro | Seriously, nothing at the mwc was exciting. | 20:20 |
| divan | Can I use uboot-power with modified kernel power46-wl1 (with wi-fi drivers)? | 20:20 |
| javispedro | And this is a from a guy that finds setting up the virtualbox web service interesting.. | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | It's amazing how marketing can turn useful words into meaningless groups of noise. | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, not even the TI booth? | 20:20 |
| wmarone | GAN900: hire chimps, record the screeches and hooting. Instant marketing team! | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG | muhahaha http://i53.tinypic.com/1z4bspu.jpg | 20:21 |
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| MohammadAG | first phase btw, looks shitty | 20:21 |
| javispedro | GAN900: I had already seen the largish Omap Zoom... | 20:21 |
| divan | Actually I tried just now and the phone went to reboot loop, so I restored the kernel with flasher. But anyway, I would like to understand why uboot for kernel-power46 doesn't work for kernel-power46-wl1 | 20:21 |
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| wmarone | MohammadAG: waht is it? | 20:21 |
| wmarone | what* | 20:21 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, nothing newer, then? | 20:21 |
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| MohammadAG | Bluetooth messenger in Qt Mobility | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG | should be cross platform | 20:22 |
| javispedro | newer -- sure. exciting -- hardly... | 20:22 |
| wmarone | cool | 20:22 |
| GAN900 | Ah | 20:22 |
| MohammadAG | works on Ubuntu and Maemo for now | 20:22 |
| GAN900 | Android has really overwhelmed things. | 20:22 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: nice! | 20:22 |
| GAN900 | It's a sad time for mobile devices. | 20:22 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, every app should tell a story. | 20:23 |
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| * GAN900 pictures lcuk droning on about the little engine that could. | 20:24 | |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: how does it work, which protocol are you using? | 20:24 |
| RST38h | Rather than complain about Android, why not consider integrating it with your own platform? | 20:24 |
| javispedro | maybe I could then make it be able to talk to older Palm PDAs and find a new life for them =) | 20:24 |
| RST38h | I.e. Android + native SDL games for example | 20:24 |
| RST38h | Or, native desktop + android apps | 20:25 |
| GAN900 | Anything it touches is evil. | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | patch_echo ' for ((i=0; i<256; i++)); do for led in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo $i >/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/leds\:lp5523\:kb$led/brightness; done; sleep 0.01; done' >/usr/lib/mce/modules/libkeypad.so | 20:26 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, QBluetooth | 20:26 |
| MohammadAG | actually, sec | 20:26 |
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| MohammadAG | laptop hibernated :/ | 20:27 |
| javispedro | don't mind | 20:27 |
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| MohammadAG | i'd appreciate it if i could disable hibernate on low battery | 20:28 |
| javispedro | so | 20:30 |
| * javispedro goes back to setting up vbox web service :) | 20:30 | |
| MohammadAG | QRfcommServer and QBluetoothSocket | 20:30 |
| javispedro | rfcomm, easy enough. | 20:31 |
| javispedro | this means you will be able to talk to hyperterminal on windows ;) | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | venemo: sed -i 's/BacklightTimeout=30/BacklightTimeout=1' /etc/mce/mce.ini; stop mce; start mce | 20:32 |
| MohammadAG | hyperterminal? | 20:33 |
| MohammadAG | WTF is wrong with ubuntu | 20:33 |
| wmarone | ? | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with windoze, heard hyperterminal got nuked years ago | 20:34 |
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| javispedro | oh, nuked. | 20:34 |
| MohammadAG | it keeps saying battery critical | 20:34 |
| * javispedro feels old | 20:34 | |
| wmarone | what does ubuntu have to do with hyperterminal? | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | the battery meter says 98% | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: check voltage | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | that's fine DocScrutinizer | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | it's a problem on the software side | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | lart bme | 20:35 |
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| MohammadAG | bme? | 20:36 |
| MohammadAG | it's my laptop :p | 20:36 |
| javispedro | run bme on your laptop! | 20:37 |
| javispedro | just reboot it already | 20:37 |
| * MohammadAG installs qemu-arm-static! | 20:37 | |
| MohammadAG | I did | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | battery meter works | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH!!! plugged in charger, screen undimmed (as it usually does), NO swoosh sound, NO charging notification | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | but it says it has to hibernate | 20:37 |
| MohammadAG | the first time I plugged my N900 in the charger I was like wtf | 20:38 |
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| MohammadAG | achipa, any ideas when Qt mobility 1.2 will work on Symbian/Windows/Mac? | 20:38 |
| MohammadAG | well, the BT API | 20:38 |
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| achipa | MohammadAG: well... it was said that originally 1.2 was scheduled for meego 1.2, so that gives you a rough estimate... | 20:40 |
| achipa | of course some beta/rc/whatever release might come earlier | 20:41 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, April | 20:41 |
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| MohammadAG | well, good enough for me, thanks :D | 20:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ohwell, bme wasn't running | 20:42 |
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| ShadowJK | mce reads vbus | 20:51 |
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| lardman | achipa: I can confirm those header file issues that were reported on TMO re mixing qtm 1.0 + 1.2 | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 20:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm like >:-(( for missing ALS.so in http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/modules | 20:52 |
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| achipa | lardman: care to share a pointer ? I kinda missed the report | 20:53 |
| achipa | lardman: though honestly I would suggest NOT to have both -dev packages | 20:54 |
| lardman | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67588&page=2 | 20:54 |
| lardman | yeah, I've removed the 1.0 package now | 20:54 |
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| achipa | lardman: rright, but where's the original issue reported ? we only talked about imports/plugins, include never came up... | 20:56 |
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| achipa | lardman: I do know that some BT headers are missing due to an upstream makefile error, but I guess that's not the problem here | 20:56 |
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| lardman | ah, I thought I'd read something in there about the headers | 20:58 |
| lardman | my fault then | 20:58 |
| lardman | but there's certainly a bug wherein it makes no odds which mobility version you choose, you still get the old headers included in the build too | 20:58 |
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| lardman | so mobility gives the 1.0 headers, mobility12 gives both old and new, which causes redefinition errors | 20:59 |
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| lardman | anyway not a biggie, as I now know what the solution is | 21:00 |
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| MohammadAG | wtf http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70048 | 21:02 |
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| javispedro | yet another duplicate thread.. | 21:02 |
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| MohammadAG | achipa, another question, will QtM 1.1 really be pushed via the official SSU? | 21:03 |
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| MohammadAG | or should we just give up and switch that to CSSU? | 21:03 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: no idea, really, always in motion, the future is | 21:05 |
| Venemo_N900 | hey achipa :) | 21:06 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: though 1.1.1 has some quite significant maemo fixes so I wouldn't push anything prior to that | 21:06 |
| achipa | hey Venemo_N900 | 21:06 |
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| Venemo_N900 | achipa: how're you? :) | 21:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: :-) | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | venemo: sed -i 's/BacklightTimeout=30/BacklightTimeout=1' /etc/mce/mce.ini; stop mce; start mce | 21:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Feb 18 20:28:14 IroN900 cellular: csd[784]: ISI_SMS .067627> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast | 21:35 |
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| ieatlint | heh, i just noticed that in qtcreator 2.1rc, the mobile application template has this "#elif defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_5) || defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_6)" | 21:38 |
| ieatlint | how sad | 21:38 |
| achipa | Venemo_N900: a bit tired, clocked 4 flights in under 24h yesterday... | 21:39 |
| Venemo_N900 | achipa: nice | 21:40 |
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| ShadowJK | maemo 6 also known as harmattan also known as "MeeGo Instance" :) | 21:41 |
| ieatlint | yeah... | 21:42 |
| achipa | ieatlint: there is one (mobile) template that people care about - qt quick application. all the rest is legacy (=junk) | 21:42 |
| ieatlint | achipa: you are incorrect | 21:42 |
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| ieatlint | i can say that resolutely for 2 reasons: 1) qt quick and the c++ side are not separate at all, and it's VERY common to do at least part of your logic in straight qt (or build widgets in qt and display with qml) | 21:43 |
| ieatlint | and 2) qml isn't even on symbian phones yet (developer preview only), and all the apps currently out and such are straight qt... | 21:43 |
| achipa | ieatlint: urrm.... what you describe *IS* qt quick application | 21:44 |
| ieatlint | heh, you're separating them unnecessarily | 21:44 |
| achipa | ieatlint: as for 2), qtcreator 2.1 is QtSDK 1.1 which will be synced to the QML availability on symbian devices | 21:44 |
| achipa | ieatlint: separating what ? | 21:45 |
| ieatlint | qt quick from qt | 21:45 |
| ieatlint | and qtcreator 2.1 is still rc | 21:45 |
| achipa | ieatlint: ? it's not separate | 21:45 |
| ieatlint | heh | 21:45 |
| ieatlint | anyway, qml is considered this weird thing, an attempt to make qt easier... and its adoption is not across the board | 21:46 |
| achipa | qml is part of qtquick just as qt is, nothing separate or exclusive there | 21:46 |
| ieatlint | marketing has really gotten to you :P | 21:47 |
| achipa | ieatlint: and as said, qtcreator 2.1 = QtSDK 1.1 = QML = Ovi = devices = etc | 21:47 |
| achipa | ieatlint: erwhat ? :) enlighten me | 21:47 |
| ieatlint | qt 1.1 is in tp, it's not out, and qml is not the exclusive future of qt... it's an attempt to make it easier for people to use qt | 21:48 |
| ieatlint | qt quick is more of a term to describe applications that use qt declarative, and for practical purposes, QML == QtDeclarative == Qt Quick | 21:49 |
| kerio | am i stupid if i want an inPulse? | 21:49 |
| ieatlint | and it's not production | 21:49 |
| ieatlint | it's planned for the major symbian release coming out (and yes, i know that maemo pr1.3 supports it, but it's not considered production still) | 21:50 |
| ieatlint | and i know that >4.7, marked stable, supports it too... but it's still too new | 21:50 |
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| achipa | ieatlint: okay, so to clear things up. QtSDK has nothing to with any of these. It serves as integrative purpose, and will be declared 'released' when all parts/services/firmwares have come up to par with the functionality provided | 21:52 |
| ieatlint | in the sense of official qt development, no | 21:52 |
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| ieatlint | but you're kidding yourself if you think people are going to adopt something that the sdk barely has support for | 21:53 |
| ieatlint | and that's where you said people only care about qt quick | 21:53 |
| achipa | ieatlint: no, I did not say that. | 21:53 |
| ieatlint | additionally, for mobile devices, as was the context, qml only has support for the n900... for symbian, there is no production support for qml | 21:53 |
| achipa | ieatlint: read back carefully what I said | 21:53 |
| ieatlint | and no date for it to arrive | 21:53 |
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| ieatlint | you called qml the only part people care about and the rest "junk" | 21:54 |
| ieatlint | for mobile | 21:54 |
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| achipa | TEMPLATES | 21:54 |
| achipa | (MOBILE) TEMPLATES at that | 21:54 |
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| ieatlint | :P | 21:55 |
| alterego | And MeeGo | 21:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL - /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input* was at 28 real, then I gave it a shot of icespray and it froze at 17, now no matter what I do it stays there | 21:57 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders if that's the silicon bug mentioned by TI | 21:58 | |
| achipa | ieatlint: but since you opened that particular can of worms - qml *is* the de facto future of qt mobile development, *especially* on symbian | 21:59 |
| ieatlint | according to marketing, yes | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks really scary, when the thermal management doesn't see any other core temp than 17°C anymore, even during flash playback of videos | 22:00 |
| achipa | ieatlint: so, what's the largely embraced alternative ? qwidgets ? orbit ? | 22:00 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: interesting | 22:00 |
| ieatlint | achipa: based on what i've seen first hand, straight qt | 22:01 |
| achipa | ieatlint: define 'straight qt' | 22:01 |
| ieatlint | no qml | 22:01 |
| ieatlint | widgets, qgraphicsview to some extent | 22:01 |
| achipa | nobody works on qwidgets | 22:02 |
| RST38h | Doc: It's a zombie CPU! | 22:02 |
| achipa | and qml IS qgraphicsview made easy | 22:02 |
| lcuk | People around the world use various languages! QML is a bit long winded, I prefer English :P | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: what? the temp thing or kbd-BL? | 22:02 |
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| ieatlint | achipa: what's your basis on your assertion that no one uses qwidgets? | 22:02 |
| * lcuk wonders what real people would do if they had to talk in markup language | 22:02 | |
| javispedro | bash Microsoft. | 22:03 |
| ds3 | <b>YiKeS!</b> | 22:03 |
| ieatlint | and qml is more like "let's throw some weird ass pseudo-javascript crap into the mix!" | 22:03 |
| rm_work | <em>lol</em> | 22:03 |
| ieatlint | most developers are kinda staring at it and asking wtf | 22:03 |
| ieatlint | the docs are mediocre, there are no books, and the training materials are in their first draft with major errors | 22:04 |
| lcuk | qml question: does it use the same javascript engine used in the html web thingy? | 22:04 |
| ieatlint | lcuk: yes | 22:04 |
| ieatlint | exact same one | 22:04 |
| lcuk | so, QML is indeed more optimal! | 22:04 |
| achipa | ieatlint: qwidgets basically don't exist on symbian (=so bad it hurts) | 22:04 |
| lcuk | since QML is shorter than HTML | 22:04 |
| rm_work | <hr /> <em>lcuk</em>: sup?<hr /> | 22:05 |
| ieatlint | achipa: that's funny, i'm employed to work on mobile apps for symbian that use qwidgets | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | <¡>I'm talking like this <style color=red> all the time</color></¡> | 22:05 |
| achipa | ieatlint: and, again, you're twisting my words, I never said nobody USES qwidgets, but that nobody WORKS ON qwidgets | 22:05 |
| MohammadAG | uh | 22:06 |
| MohammadAG | QWidgets don't exist on symbian? | 22:06 |
| ieatlint | you said they "basically don't exist on symbian" ... and i'm telling you not only do they exist, i use them daily | 22:06 |
| achipa | (=so bad it hurts) | 22:06 |
| ieatlint | and seeing as i'm a contractor working on half a dozen projects over the course of a week from other companies, i can tell you that using qwidgets is the de facto method of symbian qt dev | 22:06 |
| achipa | ieatlint: which applications are we talking about ? | 22:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: they exist, but look very ugly | 22:07 |
| ieatlint | i'm not able to say | 22:07 |
| achipa | ieatlint: I kinda do some Qt development myself occasionaly | 22:07 |
| ieatlint | mobile apps | 22:07 |
| * javispedro fails to grasp what is left from Qt when you remove "widgets" | 22:08 | |
| ieatlint | javispedro: qgraphicsview | 22:08 |
| Venemo_N900 | javispedro: QtGui is just one module | 22:08 |
| ieatlint | qgraphicsview itself is a widget, but only to just display shit that isn't a widget | 22:08 |
| lcuk | javispedro, Qt-Mobility | 22:09 |
| achipa | ieatlint: I talked to a few hundres symbian app developers, and they don't seem to share your sentiment | 22:09 |
| RST38h | javispedro: QMobility! | 22:09 |
| ieatlint | achipa: i'm impressed you found a few hundred symbian devs :P | 22:09 |
| lcuk | a serious attempt at cross compatible simple APIs for common apps | 22:09 |
| javispedro | so, funnily enough, it won't abstract the UI toolkit but the accelerometer and on? :P | 22:09 |
| ieatlint | in truth, we're both arguing what the hypothetical future of a dead platform is though, haha | 22:09 |
| achipa | ieatlint: might have to do something with my day-job :) | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | dead platform? | 22:10 |
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| MohammadAG | Qt is far from dead | 22:10 |
| * RST38h laughs diabolically | 22:10 | |
| ieatlint | symbian | 22:10 |
| RST38h | no, symbian | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | oh, that | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, it's dead | 22:10 |
| achipa | 'mortally wounded' would probably describe it better | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | needs a medic then :p | 22:11 |
| ieatlint | achipa: yeah, we're both arguing with info from our day jobs, and dancing around specifics to back up our claims due to certain contracts i suspect | 22:11 |
| ieatlint | so far the biggest push i've seen for qml has been from marketing guys | 22:11 |
| ieatlint | and i don't trust a word they say | 22:11 |
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| achipa | ieatlint: no contract involved, and I'm not a marketing dude | 22:12 |
| ieatlint | that said, quim gil, a nokia organiser for meego conferences, insists that "as far as he knows" the meego conference this spring is on, with nokia as a partner | 22:12 |
| ieatlint | achipa: i know you're not a marketing guy... you know too much about qt | 22:12 |
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| ieatlint | he says that registration was supposed to open last monday, and claims they delayed it because they felt there was "too much going on" to announce it, but expects it'll be officially open for registration in the next week, maybe two | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Friiiiiiiidaaaaay! wait for me! | 22:13 |
| ieatlint | and an intel guy stood next to him nodding a lot | 22:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what else he got left to do | 22:15 |
| ieatlint | drink | 22:15 |
| achipa | could be doing both y'know | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe shake his head in dispair | 22:15 |
| achipa | :D | 22:15 |
| ieatlint | yeah... a bunch of meego people are about to quit i'm told | 22:15 |
| javispedro | or keep bashing microsoft. | 22:15 |
| ieatlint | not being laid off (yet?), but are too upset with their project being subjugated at best, cancelled at worst | 22:16 |
| GAN900 | ieatlint, we all know who qgil is. :P | 22:17 |
| ieatlint | GAN900: just in case :P | 22:17 |
| javispedro | am I the only one that just discovered and is finds extremely surprising that despite all the hype qwidgets -- probably the most known feature of Qt -- "look ugly" under symbian? | 22:17 |
| GAN900 | ieatlint, ESPECIALLY achipa. *g* | 22:17 |
| ieatlint | i hope the conference still goes on | 22:17 |
| GAN900 | I can't imagine it wouldn't. | 22:17 |
| achipa | GAN900: I might, indeed :P | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Information on qgil (account qgil): Registered : Dec 08 21:02:27 2006 (4 years, 10 weeks, 2 days, 23:15:30, Last seen : Feb 17 02:32:08 2011 (1 day, 17:45:49 ago) | 22:18 |
| ieatlint | achipa: mind if i ask where you're based? | 22:19 |
| achipa | javispedro: ieatlint seems to disagree :) I saw them with my own eyes, and am kinda suprised people would WANT to use that over qml (apart from religious reasons) | 22:19 |
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| ieatlint | actually a lot of what i've seen is not using things like pushbuttons, but things like redoing the paintevent to insert a pixmap so it doesn't look so much like ass | 22:20 |
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| achipa | ieatlint: yes, well, that's not really qwidgets then, more like self-implemented-ui-kit (finland, btw) | 22:21 |
| javispedro | hmm.. | 22:21 |
| ieatlint | splitting hairs there | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | sudo make me a sandwich! | 22:21 |
| ieatlint | what i can't believe is the lack if kinetic scrolling in scrollareas | 22:22 |
| achipa | ieatlint: and what gets you is not the buttons, but things like spinboxes, sliders, scrolls... exactly | 22:22 |
| achipa | though you can trick your way around that | 22:22 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, but qml is a joke at the moment for many of those... you have to design your own stuff | 22:22 |
| trumee | will updating glib in fremantle break everything else? | 22:23 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: I guess that's the point... | 22:23 |
| achipa | ieatlint: symbian components are progressing nicely and you have a fairly usable subset | 22:23 |
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| ieatlint | i'll be very curious to see them | 22:24 |
| ieatlint | i also feel at the moment that with the symbian components coming out, making a qml app now is going to be reinventing the wheel only to end up with something that is nonstandard | 22:24 |
| achipa | ieatlint: I agree it's not production level, but in all honesty, I wouldn't call qwidgets on symbian production level either | 22:24 |
| trumee | i thought of building latest version of telepathy-sofiasip but it needs updates telepathy-glib which further needs updated glib | 22:24 |
| trumee | s/updates/updated | 22:25 |
| ieatlint | achipa: i've seem a couple very decent iphone app ports that looked identical in symbian based on qwidgets | 22:25 |
| ieatlint | so it's possible | 22:25 |
| ieatlint | but yeah, it requires you reinvent the wheel a bit there too | 22:25 |
| achipa | ieatlint: http://confusingdevelopers.wordpress.com/ | 22:25 |
| achipa | :P | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: you're aware telepathy-sofiiasip won't change any little bit of how the system handles an inbound RTP stream? | 22:26 |
| achipa | ieatlint: hey, I'm not saying you absolutely totally cannot make a decent app in qwidgets, only that it's really painful to do and is a very specific solution - qml, hype or not, *is* a lot better in that regard, even now | 22:26 |
| ieatlint | i'm unconvinced... but we'll see | 22:27 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: yes, i am aware of that. But telepathy-sofiasip has fixes for some very annoying things | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, just felt like mentioning it | 22:27 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: like this, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8615 | 22:27 |
| povbot | Bug 8615: telepathy-sofiasip uses lots of memory and causes the phone to swap | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah yes | 22:27 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: atm N900 is incapable of talking to FreeSwitch | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | that in turn WILL change system performance on RTP as well | 22:28 |
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| GAN900 | Wish h-d had more inertia on the desktop scrolling. | 22:28 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: what i find hilarious is that Collabora uses FreeSwitch as their pbx, and it is broken on N900 | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: MohammadAG tweaked that long ago iirc | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be simple | 22:30 |
| MohammadAG | i did the app menu | 22:30 |
| MohammadAG | GAN900, what do you mean by more inertia on the desktop? | 22:31 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: do you plan to update glib in CSSU? | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | wouldn't that break things? | 22:31 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: Not sure about that myself | 22:31 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: But telepathy-sofiasip needs updated telepathy-glib which further needs a later glib | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | if done correctly you can install both versions of glib concurrently, I'd guess | 22:33 |
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| GAN900 | MohammadAG, for scrolling panel-to-panel. | 22:35 |
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| MohammadAG | ah | 22:35 |
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| GAN900 | It's a pain to swipe from one desktop to the next since you have to go so far. | 22:35 |
| GAN900 | Be nice if you could sort of toss it. | 22:35 |
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| MohammadAG | GAN900, can you go into edit mode (gear icon), then swipe only a small bit from outside the screen? | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | like the browser + mouse pointer | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | is that what you want? | 22:37 |
| GAN900 | Oooh | 22:37 |
| GAN900 | Yeah, that's not bad at all. | 22:37 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=950055&postcount=51 | 22:57 |
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| MohammadAG | http://i52.tinypic.com/x1etds.jpg | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | http://i54.tinypic.com/i55f9f.jpg <-- needs work | 23:31 |
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| vi__ | wtf am i looking at mo? | 23:31 |
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| vi__ | is there a stable version of opera mobile for n900? | 23:32 |
| vi__ | the one from the repo crashaes as soon as i try and choose any links | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | vi__, hildon-desktop | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | modified to show 4 lines and 6 icons in the app launcher | 23:33 |
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| lcuk | you need to modify the spacings MohammadAG | 23:33 |
| lcuk | but cool beans indeed | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, yeah, I noticed | 23:34 |
| piggz | vi__: works ok for me | 23:34 |
| vi__ | mmm, i like it. | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | works ok for me too | 23:34 |
| vi__ | proceed | 23:34 |
| frals | man i suck at times | 23:34 |
| frals | forgot to ship the new code in last update of fmms | 23:34 |
| lcuk | :) hi frals | 23:34 |
| frals | only took me 5 days to realise it :D | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | apparently, it's dynamic | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | guint icons_width = HD_LAUNCHER_TILE_WIDTH * HD_LAUNCHER_GRID_MAX_COLUMNS + | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | h_spacing * (HD_LAUNCHER_GRID_MAX_COLUMNS-1); | 23:34 |
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| frals | !seen w00t | 23:35 |
| frals | ~seen w00t | 23:35 |
| frals | hm, maybe not | 23:35 |
| vi__ | mohammed i have an suggestion | 23:35 |
| frals | hi lcuk, sup? | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | infobot, seen w00t_ | 23:36 |
| * MohammadAG shoots the bot | 23:36 | |
| infobot | w00t <~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 75d 2h 13m 58s ago, saying: ':p'. | 23:36 |
| infobot | w00t_ <~w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 5h 10m 52s ago, saying: 'yes'. | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, am I lagging, or is infoboot very slow today | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | vi__ shoot | 23:36 |
| vi__ | there is no right click on n900 | 23:36 |
| lcuk | frals, just mucking about with desktop background | 23:37 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/20110218_024.jpg | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | oh but there is | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | it's remapped to tap and hold | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | well, at least in apps that support it | 23:37 |
| vi__ | dont talk about tap and hold! | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | microB's URL bar supports right clicks (seriously, it shows a context menu with a BT mouse) | 23:37 |
| frals | lcuk: :) | 23:38 |
| kerio | cool | 23:38 |
| vi__ | text input fields also react to right clicks | 23:38 |
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| kerio | we need a way to make the touchscreen recognize different fingers | 23:39 |
| vi__ | battle for wesnoth needs right clicks | 23:39 |
| vi__ | so my idea is... | 23:39 |
| vi__ | use proximiy sensor as a modifier | 23:39 |
| kerio | i want the touchscreen to act as in i'm rightclicking when i tap with the other end of the stylus | 23:39 |
| lolcat | kerio: How would that be possible? | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | with a digitizer | 23:40 |
| vi__ | i think it can be done with dbus-scipts and an xmodmap command to swap the mouse buttons | 23:40 |
| lcuk | kerio, n800 had detection for stylus vs finger | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | current hw doesn't support it | 23:40 |
| lcuk | so if you pressed with stylus, it brought up one menu | 23:40 |
| vi__ | what do you think mo? | 23:40 |
| lcuk | if you used finger it brought up a different one | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure how X works tbh | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | N810 too, but it rarely works on N810 for me | 23:41 |
| lcuk | it worked a lot of the time happily | 23:41 |
| kerio | how about ctrl+tap? | 23:41 |
| kerio | it works on os x | 23:41 |
| maheshk | guys any one know how to measure GPU performance on N900? | 23:41 |
| vi__ | dude your spamming up my idea with this noobery | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, how did that work o_O | 23:41 |
| kerio | vi__: the proximity sensor is not abusable like that | 23:41 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, point spot (stylus) versus splodge with finger | 23:41 |
| lolcat | kerio: Why not? | 23:41 |
| kerio | it's powered down like half the time | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, lies | 23:41 |
| lcuk | different pressure levels and motion in the press | 23:42 |
| vi__ | uh stfu | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | it's always on | 23:42 |
| kerio | oh k | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | get an infrared camera | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | film the N900 | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | it shows the proximity sensor's light | 23:42 |
| kerio | yeah i'll get an infrared camera just for the purpose of figuring out if the proximity sensor is on | 23:42 |
| kerio | (i know a cheap webcam would work) | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | well, the N86 cam also showed it | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | light is a bad term to use of course | 23:43 |
| lolcat | Doesn't any digital camera show infared ligth? | 23:43 |
| maheshk | alterego, there? | 23:43 |
| vi__ | mohammed is it possible to use proximity sensor as a modifier ala map it to control? | 23:43 |
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| MohammadAG | of course, how otoh, is beyond me atm | 23:43 |
| GAN900 | lolcat, no. | 23:43 |
| vi__ | lol | 23:43 |
| vi__ | ok mate | 23:43 |
| GAN900 | Many have IR filters. | 23:43 |
| GAN900 | lolcat, well, technically you're right. | 23:44 |
| lcuk | frals, are you drinking tonight? | 23:44 |
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| GAN900 | But most people don't have the tools to remove the filters without damaging their cameras. | 23:44 |
| frals | lcuk: nah, too friggin cold to be anywhere but in bed, why? :D | 23:44 |
| frals | lcuk: only had one beer with valerio earlier at your pizza place ;) | 23:45 |
| lcuk | just wondering, I am on Guinness tonight | 23:45 |
| lcuk | my son goes on holiday tomorrow, and for once - I can't wait for my birthday :) | 23:45 |
| lcuk | I am going to enjoy visiting the MOSI | 23:45 |
| lcuk | frals, :) please smile at the guy for me | 23:46 |
| lcuk | I will drop in for a kebab with him again soon. | 23:46 |
| frals | hehe | 23:46 |
| lolcat | GAN900: It shows my IR remote | 23:46 |
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| GAN900 | lolcat, which camera? | 23:51 |
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| nox- | moin | 23:54 |
| lolcat | GAN900: Any camera | 23:56 |
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