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| jef91 | Sad day for maemo :( | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jef91 | And Nokia really | 00:01 |
| Franciman | oh I've listened nokia made alliance with WIndows | 00:02 |
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| zap | nokia jumped out of the window | 00:02 |
| mikki-kun | zap: didn't they jump into the window? | 00:02 |
| mikki-kun | ^^ | 00:03 |
| zap | yep, into, but they didn't think what will happen after that | 00:03 |
| mikki-kun | i kind of think nokia has to make a new law... | 00:03 |
| mikki-kun | "Nokia CEO and boss has to be a Finn" | 00:03 |
| zap | jumping into the window usually ends with falling out of it | 00:03 |
| * federico2 installs moobox | 00:04 | |
| jaska | autodefenestration | 00:04 |
| * Arkenoi wonders why not just fire CEO. everyone agrees he is plain stupid, even stock analysts think his actions are suicidal | 00:04 | |
| Franciman | hope meego will be installable for n900 | 00:04 |
| Arkenoi | n900 is underpowered | 00:04 |
| Arkenoi | we need at least 512Mb ram | 00:04 |
| jef91 | :-/ | 00:05 |
| mikki-kun | Arkenoi: have fun with soldering that in... | 00:05 |
| jef91 | Yea n900 should of had half gig | 00:05 |
| jef91 | Will be the last nokia I ever buy | 00:05 |
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| jef91 | Samsung here I come! | 00:05 |
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| * Arkenoi would by n900i immediately | 00:05 | |
| ieatlint | yeah, go bada :P | 00:05 |
| Arkenoi | with half a gig | 00:05 |
| mikki-kun | jef91: if they go win7 i... i feel like robbed of my own country... | 00:06 |
| jef91 | Yep. | 00:06 |
| DrGrov | Arkenoi: You think the board of directors can actually invoke a veto on Elop and fire him the hell out of the position as CEO? | 00:06 |
| chx | so... why people from the N900 think of Samsung to go? is it just me who thinks WebOS is the to-go place...? what's wrong with WebOS? | 00:06 |
| Arkenoi | DrGrov, why not? | 00:06 |
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| jef91 | Samsung is developing a Linux based OS chx | 00:07 |
| jef91 | based around EFL | 00:07 |
| Arkenoi | DrGrov, it would be wise | 00:07 |
| jef91 | EFL is the way to go | 00:07 |
| anidel | Nokia was embracing OSS the right way...not sure HP would do the same | 00:07 |
| pupnik | obviously not everyone at nokia, anidel | 00:07 |
| mikki-kun | jef91: EFL? | 00:07 |
| sandst1 | EFL. nice :) | 00:07 |
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| sandst1 | http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=about/efl | 00:08 |
| Franciman | Going bed bye | 00:08 |
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| chx | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/01/29/1659253/EFL-10-Is-Finally-Released?from=rss | 00:08 |
| jef91 | EFL is super light | 00:08 |
| chx | hrm | 00:08 |
| pupnik | does EFL have anything to do with handhelds? | 00:08 |
| pupnik | or is it a desktop thing | 00:08 |
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| jef91 | its a linux thing | 00:09 |
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| anidel | pupnik, no, but the Maemo team was | 00:09 |
| jef91 | so yes to both | 00:09 |
| DrGrov | Arkenoi: Yes of course, it would extremely wise. | 00:09 |
| pupnik | jef91: then fltk is awesome too | 00:09 |
| DrGrov | Arkenoi: I just thought that does the board of directors got the balls to pull it off though? | 00:09 |
| jef91 | fltk? | 00:09 |
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| ieatlint | EFL is nice actually | 00:09 |
| ieatlint | vaguely like QML | 00:09 |
| ieatlint | but light, and the logic is all C | 00:10 |
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| sandst1 | pupnik: i did some dev experiments with efl on n800. that was a really nice experience | 00:10 |
| pupnik | http://www.fltk.org/documentation.php/doc-1.1/intro.html | 00:10 |
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| jef91 | info on samsung's plan - http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 | 00:10 |
| jef91 | EFL looks nice pupnik | 00:10 |
| jef91 | more flexible | 00:10 |
| DrGrov | EFL is really sexy | 00:10 |
| DrGrov | Immensely sexy | 00:10 |
| mikki-kun | isnt' EFL just a bunch of librarier? how can they make an OS? | 00:11 |
| pupnik | is it designed for handheld use? | 00:11 |
| DrGrov | I use Enna, a media player thing for Linux. IIRC it is built on EFL | 00:11 |
| pupnik | if not, then gtfo with that | 00:11 |
| jef91 | pupnik yes it is | 00:11 |
| pupnik | ok then | 00:11 |
| sandst1 | efl was running smoooothly on n800 already | 00:12 |
| ieatlint | EFL ran graphics smoothly on openmoko | 00:12 |
| ieatlint | that says something in itself | 00:12 |
| anidel | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ | 00:12 |
| anidel | but who cares how they look :) | 00:13 |
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| sandst1 | http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ | 00:15 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/intel_sticks_with_meego/ | 00:16 |
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| DrGrov | That WP 7 concept looks disgusting | 00:18 |
| DrGrov | Completely out of order. Never ever that I could think myself in seeing that ugly Windows button | 00:18 |
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| anidel | I LOVE that UI | 00:19 |
| ruskie | lol | 00:19 |
| anidel | it's SO refreshing.. I'm not kidding | 00:19 |
| anidel | the UI is AMAZING.. it's just that comes from MS :) and it's so closed :( | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | The limitations are pretty horrible though | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | I mean like, how can you even call it an UI if you can't multitask :/ | 00:20 |
| dotblank | that was a joke right? | 00:21 |
| anidel | those are actually two different things | 00:21 |
| ManoftheSea | I'm also disappointed. I came to complain and watch complaints and join the pity party | 00:21 |
| ruskie | ShadowJK, well I thought apple did that | 00:21 |
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| dotblank | like you can't multitask? | 00:21 |
| ieatlint | there, i fixed the nokia slide: http://imgur.com/oCLpu | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | dotblank, no it's not :P | 00:21 |
| anidel | dotblank, not on Windows, not on iOS, not even in Android | 00:21 |
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| anidel | I think MS went the Android path... leave it there, but if I need resources, kill it | 00:21 |
| anidel | I don't like that either, but the UI is still brilliant | 00:22 |
| ruskie | I saw some similar winphones on the local ad boards... | 00:22 |
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| ruskie | looked remarkedly like those nokia concepts... | 00:22 |
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| ruskie | so where exactly is the differentiation here? | 00:22 |
| ruskie | ohh wait this is M$... they don't differentiate... they just want developers to do stuff on their stuff so that users will buy more of their stuff... so developers will do more on their stuff... | 00:23 |
| anidel | like Android and iOS ? | 00:23 |
| jacekowski | that you don't have to use android crap | 00:23 |
| anidel | or..mmm. Symbian >? | 00:23 |
| jacekowski | or even worse iphone crap | 00:23 |
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| pronto | http://twitter.com/#!/aidanbiggins/statuses/36015691538771968 lmfao, awesome xD | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-11 21:49:05] <RST38h> OpenMoko was a clusterfuck due to mismanagement and general fanaticism of developers (see our friend PaulFertser answering calls from emacs on his mokophone) [2011-02-11 21:54:09] <RST38h> Hell, I have just done about 1/3 of this job. In PHP/HTML (!) --- MUHAHAHAHA a really good one | 00:24 |
| korhojoa | pronto: i don't get why people keep pasting those urls that really don't work | 00:24 |
| *** ptl has joined #maemo | 00:25 | |
| korhojoa | hashbanged urls suck | 00:25 |
| pronto | korhojoa: works for me | 00:25 |
| merlin1991 | works for me too | 00:25 |
| pronto | \o/ | 00:25 |
| ruskie | actually the only difference between the phones in the ads and those concepts... was that those in the ads said HTC someplace... | 00:25 |
| pronto | korhojoa: you should look into fixing your clients url regex | 00:26 |
| korhojoa | for the people who have twat accounts, yes, but for the people who don't (or do, but aren't logged int) it's crap | 00:26 |
| korhojoa | pronto: what are you talking about? | 00:26 |
| pronto | what you talking about | 00:26 |
| pronto | i'm not logged into twitter and it worked | 00:26 |
| korhojoa | well, tbh, they've never worked for me | 00:27 |
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| korhojoa | tried different computers and clients | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | Ms has pretty tight control and don't allow differentiation ;p | 00:27 |
| korhojoa | er, browsers | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | and elop did say a sensible thing, something like must resist customizing stuff just for the sake of customizing | 00:28 |
| korhojoa | it captures the urls fine (default N900 stuff), just doesn't load the post | 00:28 |
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| korhojoa | sends you to a "doesn't exist" page | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Is anybody else here questioning the difference between emacs and PHP/HTML? | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp when it comes to using it as a GUI | 00:28 |
| ieatlint | elop is running nokia like a business... i don't agree with his decisions, but he has a LOT of valid criticisms, and he's right about the new change of direction -- i just question if microsoft was the right partner to do it with | 00:29 |
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| ruskie | ieatlint, he's running it like a part of microsoft... | 00:29 |
| anidel | surely not HP (they didnt' care) or Google... | 00:29 |
| ieatlint | ruskie: which is what he was hired to do | 00:29 |
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| jacekowski | well, dumping pretty much everything they've done so far isn't the best decission | 00:29 |
| ieatlint | HP would've been a valid choice | 00:29 |
| ManoftheSea | Why not use baseline Google Android, and have the most open Android. | 00:30 |
| jacekowski | because there is htc | 00:30 |
| ieatlint | webos matches their shit more, has more chance of real qt apps, and hp is the largest licensee of qt commercial licences | 00:30 |
| jacekowski | already selling shitloads of crap with android | 00:30 |
| ieatlint | they're already partners | 00:30 |
| jacekowski | and android sucks | 00:30 |
| ManoftheSea | You might capture SOME of the maemo/meego open source lovers | 00:30 |
| Noma | Android would've been a economical suicide - they would've become just another bulk hardware maker | 00:30 |
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| ManoftheSea | that's a good point. | 00:30 |
| ruskie | Noma, and winpho isn't? | 00:30 |
| jacekowski | ManoftheSea: android is as far from open source as it can only get | 00:30 |
| jacekowski | ManoftheSea: even microsoft is more open | 00:31 |
| ManoftheSea | I thought it was the vendor android that was more closed. | 00:31 |
| ieatlint | oh noes, it's the pedantic "no you're less open source" argument | 00:31 |
| ManoftheSea | That you could actually get Android source. | 00:31 |
| * ieatlint runs | 00:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Maemo was a clusterfuck due to mismanagement and general fanaticism of developers (see our friend Mohammad contrlling everything from a python script on his maemophone) | 00:31 |
| ManoftheSea | or do you mean, Android doesn't keep with any OSS community? | 00:31 |
| korhojoa | heh. i like the anti-rooting stuff going on on android. then ms going "congratulations on getting full access!" | 00:31 |
| jacekowski | ManoftheSea: you can, but you can't do anything usefull with it | 00:31 |
| ManoftheSea | ok. | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | </irony> | 00:31 |
| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: probably /sarcasm | 00:32 |
| Noma | ruskie: it's easier to stand out from the crowd with WP7 | 00:32 |
| ruskie | nokia could actually do a lot if it had wanted... basically produced devices with every phone OS they could get... | 00:32 |
| ruskie | Noma, not when your device looks exactly like the competitions | 00:32 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: phytonscript? | 00:33 |
| Noma | well Nokia has for example great Maps application, superior camera knowledge... | 00:33 |
| ruskie | including winpho, droid, maybe limo?... and anything else I might be missing... | 00:33 |
| DrGrov | Anyone seen the HTC Trophy 7 in action? | 00:33 |
| ruskie | Noma, erm... nothing that I would buy any phone for? | 00:33 |
| mikki-kun | trouble with windows phone... they don't have even copy&paste! | 00:33 |
| ruskie | mikki-kun, users don't need that... | 00:34 |
| Noma | ruskie: lots of people would | 00:34 |
| Juozapas | http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/02/11/nokia/ | 00:34 |
| ruskie | they can just memorise that and retype it... | 00:34 |
| mavhc | nokia already is just a bulk hardware maker | 00:34 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: it took 3 years for apple to add that | 00:35 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: microsoft had only couple months | 00:35 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: 3 years?! | 00:35 |
| mavhc | why does android suck? | 00:35 |
| mikki-kun | linux has that even in plain terminal level! | 00:35 |
| mikki-kun | i mean by that tty | 00:35 |
| jacekowski | mavhc: because it's java based | 00:36 |
| jacekowski | mavhc: and is not using anything standard | 00:36 |
| mikki-kun | java is... | 00:36 |
| mavhc | you can run python apps if you want | 00:36 |
| mikki-kun | ever seen real java-code for "hello world"? | 00:36 |
| mavhc | or C, whatever | 00:36 |
| mikki-kun | i saw that once... | 00:36 |
| jacekowski | mavhc: no real libc | 00:36 |
| jacekowski | mavhc: so it's more like "C" than C | 00:37 |
| mavhc | Android barcode scanner in 6 lines of Python code http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/android-barcode-scanner/ | 00:37 |
| pupnik | android should run as a user-mode kernel under maemo/meego | 00:37 |
| mikki-kun | mavhc: yeah, python... but in java? | 00:37 |
| mavhc | anyway, it's the best you're going to get | 00:37 |
| * ruskie has enough of this day and tries to get some rest... | 00:37 | |
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| jacekowski | mavhc: python isn't a real language | 00:38 |
| mikki-kun | and we can't ignore the fact pyhton is a high-level language whereas C is really low level | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | it's not | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | C is high level | 00:38 |
| ruskie | hopefully I'll dream about bashing Elops brain in... | 00:38 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: ohh, then i am sory i mixed up the orders :) | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | no | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | python just isn't | 00:38 |
| mavhc | C isn't high level, it's just a macro assembler | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | rotfl | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | C was always high level language | 00:39 |
| mavhc | C is half a step up from machine code | 00:39 |
| Proteous | my C is higher than you C | 00:39 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: by that i meant C is more "machine code" and "free of dependencies" than python is :) | 00:39 |
| jacekowski | and lazy bitches that program in "easy" shit like java or python won't change it | 00:39 |
| mavhc | Proteous: I blame global warming | 00:39 |
| Proteous | my linker will beat up your honor student | 00:39 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: your python is made in C | 00:39 |
| federico2 | please don't compare Python with java | 00:40 |
| jacekowski | it's same crap | 00:40 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: my python? i don't use python, i prefer to try learning proper C/C++ :) | 00:40 |
| mavhc | yeah, who wants computers to be easy, ever since they invented "languages" and "guis" they've sucked | 00:40 |
| Proteous | C? Pffff I write in binary straight to a harddrive with a magnet and a microscope | 00:40 |
| mavhc | if you're not flipping switches on a front panel you're basically just an artist | 00:41 |
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| Proteous | vacuume tubes and relays are where it's at | 00:41 |
| mikki-kun | mavhc: i have it way easier in "cli-only" than a nie GUI... | 00:41 |
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| Proteous | if you can't hear your computer squeeling how can you know it working? | 00:41 |
| mavhc | I just alter the big bang to produce the code I want to occur now | 00:41 |
| federico2 | switches are for sissies, better solder your logic in | 00:42 |
| Proteous | that is so hipster | 00:42 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: you mentioned Mohammad being able to control everything form a python script... can you maybe explain that a lil more? :) ) | 00:42 |
| Choom | mavhc: my keyboard is a dipswitch | 00:42 |
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| Proteous | I only use an analog computer so I can feel the richness | 00:42 |
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| federico2 | mine is mechanical and made of wood | 00:44 |
| Proteous | operated with marbles and tracks/levers? | 00:45 |
| Proteous | I build all my computers in minecraft | 00:45 |
| Proteous | need to add two numbers? Pfff let me light some fuse | 00:46 |
| federico2 | Proteous, and powered by a nearby stream | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control http://maemo.org/packages/view/phone-control/ | 00:47 |
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| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: thanks for the link :) | 00:48 |
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| chadi | so sad to hear the news... | 00:52 |
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| chadi | will maemo and meego remain active projects? | 00:53 |
| mikki-kun | chadi: side projects... | 00:54 |
| mikki-kun | at least meego | 00:54 |
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| chadi | too bad | 00:54 |
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| mikki-kun | the new ceo should be fired _now_! | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | well, i mean if nokia isn't going to change modem api and other stuff | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | community may develope portable OS that could run on future nokia phones | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and we'll see BB5 for quite some time into the future, as well as OMAP | 00:56 |
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| ShadowJK | Although the firmware updates on N900 have each time been incompatible with the phone stack | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 00:57 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: you mean maemo taking over as a hacking project to be installed on other phones? | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | As in, you can't downgrade OS and keep phone without tricking nolo into downgrading modem firmware | 00:57 |
| mikki-kun | maybe i should buy myself a second n900 in case my current one breaks... | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what does that mean - "Nokia won't develop MeeGo"? It just means the next device will *ship* with closed source crap developed by M$ rather than closed source abominations for dialer, callendar etc, developed by Nokia on top of an oh-so-open meego OS. This doesn't mean we can't use MeeGo on those devices, and hell, they might even get cheaper, due to the much higher volume Nokia will attract with a well known OS for dumbasses | 00:59 |
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| derf | Even dumbasses don't want Win7 on their phones. | 01:00 |
| pupnik | hehe DocScrutinizer | 01:00 |
| newbie007 | greetings, anyone heard of Barnes & Noble Nook.. and any chance it could run Maemo ? | 01:00 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: why not go then iOS? | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, don't make me start | 01:00 |
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| * pupnik is happy the two leading OS's are unixy! | 01:00 | |
| * DrGrov is watching Tropa de Elite 2 without understanding a single word but imaging Elop | 01:00 | |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: on what? iOS? ^^ | 01:01 |
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| MohammadAG | yes, my dad got an iPhone, used it for 2 days now | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | UI - excellent, apps - over 100k, 30-40 installed | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | functionality - close to 0 for most apps on the store | 01:01 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: btw, thanks for phone-control! that is exaclty what i have been looking for a long long time! | 01:02 |
| pupnik | those stores are pits of poop | 01:02 |
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| MohammadAG | multitasking, a joke if you ask me, it's just shortcuts to the recently used apps | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | if the app supports multitasking, it saves view on exit, reloads it on "resume" | 01:02 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: that is true multitasking, according to apple | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, you're welcome | 01:02 |
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| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: thanks for mentioning it as well :) | 01:03 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, you think the bootloader will be unlocked? | 01:04 |
| * mikki-kun wants to go out, grab a random dudes iphone, smash it into the ground, break it apart and film all that with my precious n900 while doing so :) | 01:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the one million dollar queston | 01:04 |
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| mikki-kun | maybe someone smart enough will understand how it works | 01:05 |
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| mikki-kun | or just replace it | 01:05 |
| GAN900 | Maybe if we start killing MS employees. | 01:05 |
| GAN900 | Who is on Nokia's board? | 01:05 |
| GAN900 | Let's not forget their names. | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess the signing key is more easily obtainable than by starting to torture and execute M$ employees.... HELL, let's do it ANYWAY!! | 01:06 |
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| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: execute them via a -exe? | 01:07 |
| mikki-kun | *.exe | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, if we were rich, we'd buy a few thousand Nokia Windows Phone 7 Devices, get a grinder and a furnace, and go camp outside Nokia/MS HQ and grind them to bits and burning the bits and hoping the fumes float towards the HQ. | 01:07 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: btw, let's kill them via "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/brain" | 01:07 |
| mikki-kun | ohhh, wait, that won't work... | 01:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | error: /dev/brain : no such file or directory | 01:08 |
| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: one man alone is not rich, how about a community project though? | 01:08 |
| Gadgetoid | ShadowJK: You'd be better *not* buying a few thousand Nokia WP7 units.. you wouldn't want to quadruple their sales and make them think it's successful | 01:08 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: exactly XD | 01:08 |
| zap | ShadowJK: Ballmer will say thank you personally | 01:08 |
| zap | ShadowJK: perhaps he will propose you a discont, even | 01:08 |
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| MohammadAG | Ballmer | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | Ball Mer | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | found a name for Mer v2! | 01:09 |
| Ken-Young | Ball merd | 01:09 |
| zap | I also know a joke about "mee go" | 01:09 |
| Ken-Young | s/merd/merde/ | 01:09 |
| zap | that was the last words of nokia | 01:09 |
| mikki-kun | XD | 01:10 |
| ShadowJK | mikki-kun, nah it'd have to be many more units than the crowd doing it | 01:10 |
| zap | "mee go out of the windows" | 01:10 |
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| mikki-kun | zap: "mee go out and look at the shiny windows" | 01:10 |
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| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: who says we can all afford a plane ticket in addition to that? | 01:11 |
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| ShadowJK | mikki-kun, this is why I prefixed everything with "if we were rich" | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, thanks to whole community! I learned a new lesson today, that I didn't get completely last time and almost forgot: an OS isn't valued for what it is, but for what it *might* become eventually | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG | WeeGo Boom | 01:13 |
| LjL | uh. i wanted to install Wormux on my N810, but i mistakenly started installing WarMUX instead, which was featured on maemo.org download page. however, that doesn't seem to be available for OS2008? yet, it didn't refuse to install! instead, it's stuck "installing" now | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/OS/product/ | 01:13 |
| wmarone | yay, sarcasm! | 01:13 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: your father is happy with the iCrap? | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | last time I've seen such doomsday panic was when gta03 got discontinued | 01:14 |
| Proteous | lots of people are happy with iphones | 01:14 |
| kerio | the problem is that we are not people | 01:14 |
| DrGrov | Looks like it is out of order to ask a straight god damn question at #meego | 01:14 |
| wmarone | DrGrov: your question was out of line | 01:14 |
| DrGrov | pupnik: You thought that the question was out of order? | 01:14 |
| pupnik | no i wondered which promise you were speaking of | 01:15 |
| kerio | DrGrov: what did you ask? | 01:15 |
| Proteous | asking, "who's how can I burn down about the nokia decision" is out of line | 01:15 |
| pupnik | that's a vague 'promise' if you ask me | 01:15 |
| DrGrov | wmarone: Out of line? You gotta be joking. I just asked a plain and simple question on whether he feels like a puppet or not. | 01:15 |
| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, Yup, this is gta03 on a bigger scale. | 01:15 |
| wmarone | DrGrov: and it's a crude question | 01:15 |
| jacekowski | Proteous: it's not | 01:15 |
| wmarone | not deserving of being answered | 01:15 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov, that was not fair to kick you out like that. | 01:15 |
| wmarone | it's as much an insult to the person you're asking as the target | 01:16 |
| DrGrov | wmarone: Well, no need to answer. Just wanted a honest opinion, that's all. | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, it's easy to use I guess | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | Proteous: it's not out of the line | 01:16 |
| Proteous | jacekowski: I can give you Balmers address if you want | 01:16 |
| Proteous | :P | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | Proteous: there was much heavier shit flying in this channel | 01:16 |
| pupnik | http://www.engadget.com/photos/pre-3-hands-on-2/#3864801 too bad the large palm unit doesn't have a landscape keyboard :/ | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | without a reason | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | now we have a reason and it's reasonably calm | 01:16 |
| DrGrov | kerio: I said it to wmarone already a few lines up | 01:16 |
| Proteous | I was just being sarcastic... | 01:16 |
| Dhraakellian | what's the current state of MeeGo Handset? | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | dead | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | abandoned | 01:16 |
| Proteous | it wasn't the real question, it was something I just made up | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, I suggested the Samsung Galaxy S, but it was out of stock operator-wide, so I told him to get the iPhone | 01:16 |
| Dhraakellian | any way to install beta stuff to try it out? | 01:17 |
| zap | Ballmer reminds me of Balrog. Likewise, falling into the abyss, the fire whip grappled Nokia. | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | he was going to pay the same for both anyway, so meh | 01:17 |
| DrGrov | wmarone: Well it might not be answered. I know that but just a straight honest opinion. | 01:17 |
| Dhraakellian | (post-1.1, of course, with half-decent performance, hopefully) | 01:17 |
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| DrGrov | I hate people who keep talking about honesty and all that and still don't give any type of straight, hard facts. | 01:17 |
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| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: pita to get apps for it available though... you have to made a total revenue of 141 $ plus some cents to win back your 100$ application fee you pay every year to code stuff on the iphone | 01:17 |
| DrGrov | But I do understand that it is not his thing to answer. | 01:17 |
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| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, I'm not coding for it | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | don't plan to | 01:18 |
| Proteous | teenage muntant zebra turtles? | 01:18 |
| pupnik | HP's pre-3 trinity is what maemo5 should have had | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, I wouldn't say MeeGo is dead | 01:18 |
| GAN900 | Well, that's uplifting. | 01:18 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: good :) but just wanted to mention that so you know | 01:18 |
| GAN900 | Got to see a first edition, first state, first printing Huck Finn. | 01:18 |
| DrGrov | People can not seem to stand any type of critique these days. | 01:18 |
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| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, yeah, I know, only way to dev for free is to jailbreak it | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: with major meego target going the other way suddenly | 01:19 |
| GAN900 | (US) | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: it pretty much is | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, dying != dead | 01:19 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: did you jailbreak it for him? ^^ | 01:19 |
| DrGrov | People get banned for asking a straight question which has no personal intentions... | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, nope | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | It's iOS 4.2.1, on an iPhone 4 | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | I gave up on trying, before reading how to do it | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | it's like having a gf that you plan to have baby with and on a last minute she tells you she's gay | 01:20 |
| mikki-kun | iirc you can do that as well though | 01:20 |
| Dhraakellian | MohammadAG: MeeGo is being ported to BSD. NetCraft confirms it | 01:20 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: oh god, a shemale! | 01:20 |
| kerio | mikki-kun: that's like 141 downloads of a .99$ app | 01:20 |
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| mikki-kun | kerio: 160 | 01:21 |
| kerio | mikki-kun: not that kind of gay | 01:21 |
| kerio | also whatever | 01:21 |
| trumee | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ | 01:21 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, you'd notice a shemale, she doesn't have to tell you she's "gay" | 01:21 |
| trumee | HP Pre have a horrible keyboard | 01:21 |
| zap | keyboard is not really needed nowadays | 01:22 |
| trumee | zap: you are kidding | 01:22 |
| zap | onscreen is okay for simple ops, and for advanced usage you always can connect a bluetooth one | 01:22 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: hm... true that, mixxed up trans and shemale there :/ | 01:22 |
| trumee | zap: i cant survive a day without hw keyboard | 01:22 |
| zap | they're cheap as shit | 01:22 |
| wmarone | zap: keyboard is essential, onscreen keyboards are horrible | 01:22 |
| wmarone | landscape keyboard, even | 01:22 |
| zap | for web and chats its okay :) | 01:22 |
| trumee | zap: i have disabled the virtual keyboard in N900 | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | a gay girl, yay! | 01:23 |
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| jacekowski | gay according to dictionary just means not going the correct way | 01:23 |
| zap | trumee: it's rather about giving you the choice, carry the keyboard with you or not | 01:24 |
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| zap | and if yes, what kind/size/usability | 01:24 |
| lolloo | GOD Dammnit!!! | 01:25 |
| *** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th | 01:25 | |
| lolloo | did u guys see nokia windows phone concept?? | 01:25 |
| lolloo | disgusted! | 01:25 |
| mikki-kun | lolloo: no c&p :) | 01:25 |
| zap | they planned the trait long ago, thats it | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, indeed, I prefer the term lesbian, but I'll stfu now | 01:26 |
| zap | *treason | 01:26 |
| lolloo | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | dyke is the word | 01:26 |
| lolloo | my eyes it husrts!!! | 01:26 |
| GAN900 | Easy now. | 01:26 |
| wmarone | see | 01:26 |
| lolloo | hehe easy dudes | 01:26 |
| wmarone | those aren't bad | 01:27 |
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| wmarone | well, except for the lack of keyobard | 01:27 |
| lolloo | kick now! | 01:27 |
| wmarone | keyboard* | 01:27 |
| wmarone | and WP7 | 01:27 |
| lolloo | joking | 01:27 |
| wmarone | heh | 01:27 |
| lolloo | heh | 01:27 |
| lolloo | omg that was quick! | 01:27 |
| jacekowski | i really like N8 design | 01:27 |
| mikki-kun | kerio: i recalculated that... with your 145th download of the .99$-app you will see your first pennies rolling in (paying your developer fee of 100$ and then also for each subsequent download 30% 'charges' to apple" | 01:27 |
| Gadgetoid | Looks like Nokia have been planning to screw everyone over for a while | 01:28 |
| Dhraakellian | wow... that's so... CGA | 01:28 |
| kerio | mikki-kun: 145 downloads aren't that much | 01:28 |
| MohammadAG | the camera looks shitty | 01:28 |
| MohammadAG | or I'm used to good cameras having a big lump | 01:28 |
| mikki-kun | kerio: who says everyone wants your ebookreader out of the 10k there are already ;) | 01:29 |
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| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: of the n8? | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | no, the concepts lolloo linked to | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | the N8's design is one I like | 01:29 |
| Dhraakellian | not sure what exactly planted the seeds, but why am I now hoping that some other company buys Qt from Nokia? | 01:29 |
| mikki-kun | can i get them and smash them to lego-sized pieces? | 01:29 |
| MohammadAG | the only thing I hate with symbian device designs is that they're longer more than they're wider, and the shitty res that's coupled with that | 01:30 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: the E7 looks pretty promising and good | 01:30 |
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| MohammadAG | I'm surprised that I type quite quickly on the iPhone in portrait mode, yet I suck on the N8 | 01:30 |
| mavhc | mikki-kun: you had to buy a mac too, so more like your 1000000th | 01:30 |
| MohammadAG | mikhas, 640x360 | 01:30 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: ohhh, the E7 as well? | 01:31 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 01:31 |
| MohammadAG | on a 4" screen | 01:31 |
| * mikki-kun abandons the E7 as looking promising | 01:31 | |
| mavhc | I liked the n8 kb for accuracy, terrible UI though | 01:31 |
| nidO | if it werent for today's news i was very sorely tempted to be buying an e7 in a few weeks | 01:31 |
| nidO | and I bet my entire life's earnings huge numbers of people feel the same | 01:31 |
| Gadgetoid | MohammadAG: the iPhone is imbued with magic to facilitate typing | 01:31 |
| MohammadAG | the iPhone's keyboard is awesome | 01:32 |
| kerio | not really | 01:32 |
| MohammadAG | compared to the N8, it is awesome kerio | 01:32 |
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| MohammadAG | I loved the PR1.0 vkb on the N900 :( | 01:32 |
| mavhc | swype wins though | 01:33 |
| Dhraakellian | I seem to remember NITDroid's keybeard being halfway decent | 01:33 |
| kerio | doesn't the n8 have a physical keyboard? | 01:33 |
| mikhas | hate to say it, but the WP7 KB > iPhone | 01:33 |
| wmarone | editing e-mail on the iPhone is painful though | 01:33 |
| Dhraakellian | ...and better than Maemo5's | 01:33 |
| trumee | MohammadAG, why is it better? | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, no | 01:33 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: then ha ha ha | 01:33 |
| kerio | of course the iphone kbd is better | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | the PR1.0 kb? it was freakin awesome | 01:33 |
| kerio | a bit of actual thought went into it | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | in PR1.1, they got rid of gestures | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | in PR1.2, they broke it with a retarded design | 01:34 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: kerio n8 doesn't have physical | 01:34 |
| trumee | MohammadAG, why is iOS vkb better than Pr1.2? | 01:34 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, I know, I have one :P | 01:34 |
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| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: is the cam really that much better on it? | 01:34 |
| wmarone | MohammadAG: I'm guessing the VKB is closed source? | 01:35 |
| mikki-kun | compared to n900... oh and the xeon-flash... does it really flash nicely? | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | it's not mine, but meh | 01:35 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: PR1.0 had gestures? | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | iOS vkb is better than all | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | wmarone, yes | 01:35 |
| Dhraakellian | Is there a way to try out the PR1.0 keyboard without actually reverting to PR1.0? | 01:35 |
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| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, yes, down to close, right to add a space, left for backspace, up for umm, line break I think? | 01:36 |
| Dhraakellian | my n900 had PR1.2 when I bought it off eBay | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | last time I tried to do it, I ended up with no working vkb and had to reflash | 01:36 |
| Dhraakellian | MohammadAG: anything for shift or numlock? | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | ah, right | 01:37 |
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| MohammadAG | up was shift + key | 01:37 |
| MohammadAG | so swiping up on a returned A | 01:37 |
| Dhraakellian | actually, I could see drag up from a particular letter giving you the shifted version | 01:38 |
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| Dhraakellian | ...being useful | 01:38 |
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| MohammadAG | this worked up till PR1.2, on PR1.2 doing it breaks the vkb, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=40619 | 01:38 |
| Gadgetoid | Hmm... I'm getting urges to throw my iPhone 4 against a wall. Updating from 4.0 to 4.2.1 doesn't want to be easy. | 01:39 |
| Gadgetoid | Installing Community SSU on the N900 was easier! | 01:39 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: how is the media player from you actually doing? :) | 01:39 |
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| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, it lacks MafwPlaylist | 01:43 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, otherwise, it runs well, I think, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | it's music only for now | 01:44 |
| mikki-kun | MafwPlaylist does what? | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | I should get back on it, crashanddie doesn't seem to want to work on it, we've been stalled since my exams started | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | playlists :P | 01:45 |
| wmarone | exams > media player :) | 01:45 |
| MohammadAG | when you select a song now, it plays it fine | 01:45 |
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| MohammadAG | wmarone, my exams finished on 26/1 :P | 01:45 |
| wmarone | doh | 01:45 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, but when the song finishes, it skips to the next one on the stock player playlist | 01:45 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, try it | 01:46 |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: it starts the stock media player then? | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | wget http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer; chmod +x mediaplayer; ./mediaplayer | 01:46 |
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| MohammadAG | do that on one line, and it should run | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | mikki-kun, no | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | it plays the songs assigned in the stock player | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | technically, it's mafw doing this, not the stock player | 01:47 |
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| mikki-kun | ahhhh, so i still have to make the playlists in stock media player if i want custom playlists? | 01:47 |
| MohammadAG | Now playing is considered a playlist | 01:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns | 01:49 | |
| mikki-kun | hm, does busybox use bash or sh? | 01:51 |
| wmarone | busybox is busybox | 01:51 |
| wmarone | it has its own quirks | 01:51 |
| MohammadAG | busybox is ash | 01:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer is closing the NOK live chart, knowing tomorrow Nokia will announce foobar-II and that's real cool shit (as virtually anything they could announce now is cool compared to what Elop did today). Buy now people, you won't get Nokia shares any cheaper | 01:52 | |
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| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: hm, would you recommend to switch as to bash? | 01:53 |
| Pavlov_ | anyone have wp7 running on their n900 yet?? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 01:53 |
| MohammadAG | bash > ash, but really, you need coreutils-gnu to make use of it | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, IBOT!?! | 01:54 |
| Dhraakellian | Gadgetoid: installing community-ssu is braindead simple | 01:54 |
| Gadgetoid | Dhraakellian: To get the iPhone updated to 4.2.1 I had to edit my god damned hosts file for some reason... *facepalm* | 01:55 |
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| apt | Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) | 01:55 |
| Dhraakellian | click the link, click through dialogs, click an icon, backup when it suggests you do so, click through some more | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | cool | 01:55 |
| Gadgetoid | apt: get | 01:55 |
| apt | hmm... get is search http://www.apt-get.org | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | I always thought the method I used was hard for some users :P | 01:55 |
| Gadgetoid | What!? | 01:55 |
| * Gadgetoid just got trolled by a bot | 01:56 | |
| MohammadAG | in fact, I was trying to make installation easier | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | then I gave up due to difficulties, so I had to use an icon in the menu | 01:56 |
| Dhraakellian | updating my desktop to KDE 4.6 on opensuse is harder, not terribly so, but still | 01:56 |
| * Arkenoi watched alien dalvik video. it seems to be lightspeed fast and unlike nitdroid appears to be really useful. | 01:56 | |
| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: coreutils i have installed | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 01:56 |
| apt | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 01:56 |
| Dhraakellian | I just made bash3 my default shell this week | 01:57 |
| Dhraakellian | need to change my root PS1 colors | 01:57 |
| maybeArgh | http://twitter.com/nokia/status/36189563688849408 | 01:58 |
| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-tip-prompt/ | 01:58 |
| mikki-kun | that site is really really helpful for doing so :) | 01:58 |
| Dhraakellian | mikki-kun: I have done it before. I have to look up color codes every single time, but I have done it before | 01:58 |
| nox- | `Microsofts openess' haha... | 01:59 |
| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: i found out today and have now a command prompt similiar to my irssi look | 01:59 |
| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: PS1="\t \e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h \e[34m>\e[0m" <--- mine :) | 02:00 |
| Dhraakellian | \[\033[00;32m\]\u\[\033[00m\]@\[\033[01;36m\]\h \[\033[01;34m\]\W\[\033[01;32m\] $ \[\033[00m\] on my desktop | 02:00 |
| Dhraakellian | I change the hostname colors for each computer | 02:00 |
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| Dhraakellian | and root gets a red username and a red '#' | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | speaking of bash3, anybody tell me why 'help' doesn't work in bash3? | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | which gashead thought it's a good idea to kick this out of bash? | 02:01 |
| Dhraakellian | Arkenoi: yeah, it looks interesting | 02:01 |
| Dhraakellian | here's hoping it's cheap | 02:01 |
| Dhraakellian | here's wishing for F/OSS too | 02:02 |
| Dhraakellian | but I'm not gonna get my hopes too far up for that | 02:02 |
| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: i have different hostnames for each computer ;) | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | If I were concerned obout the 2kb that are needed by 'help' then I'd probably not use bash | 02:03 |
| Dhraakellian | mikki-kun: as do I | 02:03 |
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| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: why change then colors? :) | 02:04 |
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| Dhraakellian | mikki-kun: just one more clue that you're on a different computer | 02:04 |
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| mikki-kun | MohammadAG: i will try the media player as soon as i switched my default shell :) | 02:05 |
| Dhraakellian | a splash of color may be easier to distinguish at a glance than different text | 02:05 |
| Dhraakellian | what is this media player? | 02:05 |
| Termana | good morning | 02:05 |
| * Dhraakellian has MediaBox and Rockbox installed | 02:05 | |
| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: total rewrite of the stock media player with even the looks of it, just not as stupid as it :) | 02:05 |
| Dhraakellian | 'soon as Rockbox gets its keymaps sorted out and Scrobbling working, I'll be ditching MediaBox | 02:06 |
| Dhraakellian | heh | 02:06 |
| Dhraakellian | complete HW accelerated video? | 02:06 |
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| Dhraakellian | +with | 02:07 |
| mikki-kun | so far no video :/ | 02:07 |
| Dhraakellian | ah | 02:07 |
| mikki-kun | Mohammad is working it from the looks of it mostly alone | 02:07 |
| Dhraakellian | well, with RockboxAsAnApp, I don't really have so much interest in another music player | 02:08 |
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| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: did you follow any guides to make bash your normal prompt? | 02:09 |
| Dhraakellian | installed it, and it told me to run a setup command for each user | 02:10 |
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| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: can you maybe recall how it was called? | 02:10 |
| zap | bash-setup | 02:11 |
| mikki-kun | i installed it in the past and was like "ohhh, i'll install it soon"... i've been saying that for like half a year now >.< | 02:11 |
| mikki-kun | arigato :) | 02:11 |
| Dhraakellian | install bash3, run bash-setup | 02:11 |
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| mikki-kun | bash-setup was the command i looked for :) | 02:12 |
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| Gh0sty | Quote of the day: All new Nokia phones will have keyboards so that CTRL-ALT-Delete can be pressed when WP7 has frozen up yet again... | 02:16 |
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| mikki-kun | LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL | 02:17 |
| pupnik | that reminds me - scraping the windows logo off my thinkpad | 02:17 |
| Gh0sty | there is a windows logo on your thinkpad? | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | <Dhraakellian> complete HW accelerated video? | 02:17 |
| mikki-kun | pupnik: try doing that on the new nokia devices... | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | gstreamer accelerates videos right now | 02:17 |
| Gh0sty | oh right might have been there too ... it came loose by itself :P | 02:17 |
| Dhraakellian | nifty | 02:18 |
| Dhraakellian | mplayer still doesn't, I assume | 02:18 |
| * Dhraakellian glanced at smplayer again last night to see if the Maemo build had OpenSubtitles.org support | 02:18 | |
| Dhraakellian | it didn't | 02:18 |
| Dhraakellian | that's one feature I really like about the desktop version | 02:19 |
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| Dhraakellian | what did the pr1.0 keyboard look like? | 02:23 |
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| mikki-kun | can i change the default shell fo root to bash as well? | 02:28 |
| pupnik | mikki-kun: and i mapped the 'windows' key to "close window" in xfce :D | 02:29 |
| mikki-kun | i use Mod4 as my general mod-button on my dwm setup here | 02:30 |
| jhb1 | the browser needs about 5-10 secs before it starts loading the first page of a browsing session. ping resolves immediately. Any ideas? | 02:31 |
| mikki-kun | Mod4 + c == close | 02:31 |
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| T_X | ... why did I get a N900 recently... | 02:42 |
| T_X | I mean, the device is awesome... but the nokia ms alliance makes me regret my decision | 02:42 |
| wmarone | because despite this announcement, the N9000 will not spontaneously burst into flames (barring batter problems) | 02:42 |
| wmarone | N900* | 02:42 |
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| MohammadAG | Dhraakellian, http://my-maemo.com/reviews/grafika/n900_21.jpg | 02:43 |
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| Dhraakellian | a-ha | 02:44 |
| Dhraakellian | less room for the text, but more room for the buttons | 02:44 |
| Dhraakellian | seems a reasonable trade | 02:44 |
| Dhraakellian | though still taking up the entire screen | 02:44 |
| Dhraakellian | which would seem to be the main reason for the HW keyboard | 02:45 |
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| Dhraakellian | not accuracy, but visibility and context | 02:45 |
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| mikki-kun | Dhraakellian: iirc the buttons are the same size | 02:46 |
| T_X | wmarone: yeah, but I did not buy it _just_ bc. of the hardware, I mostly bought it bc. of the software on it - linux. I had expected to have a company supporting this code for many more years and that I could mutualy support the company which supports open source development on smartphones with that | 02:46 |
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| mikki-kun | T_X: nokia has "dropped" official support since pr1.3 | 02:47 |
| mikki-kun | that was last summer | 02:47 |
| Dhraakellian | mikki-kun: you may be right | 02:47 |
| mikki-kun | open source will actually never be "supported" as too few people use it as it looks :/ | 02:47 |
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| sevard | My n810 is :( | 02:48 |
| sevard | it boots, loads the desktop, then reboots | 02:48 |
| sevard | :/ | 02:48 |
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| sevard | what should i do | 02:48 |
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| mikki-kun | hm, will nokia even make then harmattan?! | 02:48 |
| mikki-kun | Ö.ö | 02:48 |
| mikki-kun | sevard: maybe a reflash might help... sorry, can't help there too much, am not a diablo user :/ | 02:49 |
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| sevard | do you know if that will erase the entire internal memory? | 02:49 |
| mikki-kun | on the n900 it erases everything not on a seperate chip | 02:50 |
| mikki-kun | if i flash the rootfs i flash only data on the fast flash | 02:50 |
| sevard | shit. | 02:50 |
| mikki-kun | if i flash the emmc then all personal data is lost... | 02:50 |
| mikki-kun | sevard: maybe usb-networking might work on yours though... | 02:50 |
| mikki-kun | so you could be able to backup something | 02:50 |
| mikki-kun | i am sorry i cannot help you more on that ;( | 02:51 |
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| sevard | thank you though :) | 02:53 |
| mikki-kun | but didn't the n810 also have a mini-sd slot or something? | 02:53 |
| mikki-kun | maybe you have some of your data there | 02:53 |
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| Tukanfan | Do you guys think Qt will be developed further? Would like to learn it, but won't waste my time either... | 02:54 |
| jonwil | I would like nothing better than to see more of the N900 code opened up. But I doubt it will happen :P | 02:54 |
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| Dhraakellian | Tukanfan: http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php | 02:54 |
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| Dhraakellian | Tukanfan: *someone* will develop it | 02:55 |
| Dhraakellian | if Nokia stops, well... | 02:55 |
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| Dhraakellian | and anyway, it's under the LGPL now, so if worse came to worse, even without the above-linked agreement, it could still be forked | 02:55 |
| mikki-kun | we need to get fail0verfl0w to hack the n900 :D | 02:55 |
| Tukanfan | But will the code quality prevail? I havn't had that good experiences with KDE | 02:56 |
| Dhraakellian | but that bridge will be crossed when necessary | 02:56 |
| Dhraakellian | and it's not necessary yet | 02:56 |
| Dhraakellian | I wouldn't really worry | 02:56 |
| * Dhraakellian has had plenty of good experiences with KDE | 02:56 | |
| Tukanfan | hmm, just think they make some design mistakes sometimes | 02:57 |
| Tukanfan | but well, if you say so ;) | 02:58 |
| rzr | do you know about plasma mobile framework ? | 02:58 |
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| Tukanfan | have seen a youtube video | 02:58 |
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| rzr | is this tied to meego ? | 02:59 |
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| jonwil | mikki-kun: we dont need to hack the N900, its already fully customizable :P | 03:02 |
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| pupnik | mostly | 03:03 |
| mikki-kun | jonwil: present me the source code of the bootloader then on a silver platter :) | 03:04 |
| jonwil | well we dont need fail0verfl0w to hack that, we just need someone to reverse engineer it with IDA :P | 03:04 |
| Sc0rpius | heh, fail0verfl0w... | 03:05 |
| Sc0rpius | poor kids are all sued | 03:05 |
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| mikki-kun | Sc0rpius: i hope sony loses that battle | 03:07 |
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| jonwil | yes so do I | 03:09 |
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| jonwil | I am hoping that they can argue that the "interoperability" provisions of the DMCA apply in this case | 03:11 |
| jonwil | as its clear that neither GeoHot nor Fail0verfl0w wanted piracy on the system, they only wanted interoperability (i.e. the ability to run their own code on the device they paid for) | 03:11 |
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| jonwil | Time to write these proposal emails to the community list per what I was told yesterday :) | 03:19 |
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| DrGrov | Is there a "evening with Nokia" event coming up this Sunday? | 03:27 |
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| jonwil | ok, thats got one sent | 03:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 03:42 |
| TiagoTiago | would it be safe to copy and symlink /opt/maemo/usr/share/themes to inside MyDocs? | 03:43 |
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| TiagoTiago | anyone? | 03:50 |
| zap | why not? | 03:51 |
| BCMM | i suspect that will make it impossible to do USB mass-storage | 03:52 |
| TiagoTiago | the theme data don't get stored in ram after it is loaded for the first time? | 03:53 |
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| MohammadAG | no | 03:54 |
| BCMM | in practise, yes, but only due to filesystem caching, would be my guess | 03:54 |
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| BCMM | it's not like GTK has some central daemon drawing windows | 03:55 |
| TiagoTiago | that doesn't sound wise, though i guess it becomes necessary with how little RAM the N900 got | 03:55 |
| BCMM | each GTK application will need to load theme data and pixmaps | 03:55 |
| BCMM | TiagoTiago: well, how else could it work, really? | 03:56 |
| BCMM | you'd need some kind of GTK-theming daemon... | 03:56 |
| BCMM | and in any case, it's not going to leave cache unless you really, really need the RAM | 03:56 |
| BCMM | since it gets used so much | 03:57 |
| TiagoTiago | the data for the current theme would be kept in RAM keeping it fast to read by any program that intends to use the OS's theme | 03:57 |
| BCMM | TiagoTiago: in practise, that will happen through caching | 03:57 |
| TiagoTiago | programs that use their own theme or even their own GUI rendering engine that doesn't share the OS theme wouldn't care where the OS is storing it's theme data | 03:58 |
| TiagoTiago | if it happens with the caching, would it matter where the original data is stored? | 03:59 |
| BCMM | TiagoTiago: the kernel doesn't cache files that don't exist any more. taht'd be a bad idea. | 04:00 |
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| TiagoTiago | I hadn't even thought about mass storage mode, i was worried about what would happen while booting | 04:01 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can have the system automaticly copy the data for the currently selected theme into a less volatile location, and always read the theme from there instead of from the themes library? | 04:03 |
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| BCMM | TiagoTiago: keep gtkrc pointing to a generically-named location, and copy the theme you want to use there when you feel like a change? | 04:04 |
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| BCMM | (i'm saying it's possible, not advisable) | 04:04 |
| TiagoTiago | would that work? why not advisable? | 04:04 |
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| BCMM | TiagoTiago: it has an ill-defined feeling of asking for an update to kick you in the face at some point | 04:07 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 04:07 |
| TiagoTiago | I don't wanna have to uninstall all the other themes i don't got selected right now :/ | 04:08 |
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| sid | ping; pong for test purpose? | 04:23 |
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| doc|home | so, am I going to have to start looking at android phones? :( | 04:26 |
| doc|home | maybe I should just buy a nokia windows nonsense 7 phone. Every time I spend a lot of money on a phone the platform falls on its arse (openmoko, then maemo) | 04:26 |
| nox- | oh so meego is dead too? | 04:27 |
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| ieatlint | doc|home: sounds about right | 04:27 |
| doc|home | is there any chance elop will get thrown out on his ear? | 04:28 |
| ieatlint | none | 04:29 |
| doc|home | android it is then... | 04:29 |
| ieatlint | he was brought in to shake stuff up, to replace him would cause even more uncertainty | 04:29 |
| ieatlint | and that will drop their stock price more | 04:29 |
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| ieatlint | mediocre plan > no plan | 04:30 |
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| doc|home | This really gives nokia no competitive advantage. They're going to get screwed. | 04:30 |
| doc|home | windows phone 7 is a disadvantage in fact. | 04:31 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, and it screws over ALL of their existing developers | 04:31 |
| doc|home | yup | 04:31 |
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| doc|home | the android camp must be wetting themselves at the thought of the devs flocking | 04:31 |
| ieatlint | google's already made the overture of asking nokia employees if they want a job :P | 04:32 |
| doc|home | hahaha | 04:32 |
| doc|home | nice | 04:32 |
| ieatlint | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2011/02/11/google-makes-job-offer-to-nokia-engineers | 04:32 |
| ieatlint | both apple and google had their stocks jump a bit today, heh | 04:33 |
| doc|home | hahaaha | 04:36 |
| doc|home | "Epic fail, Nokia! Now even chinese NOKLA will beat you, I guess." | 04:36 |
| doc|home | sad, that it might even become true | 04:36 |
| ieatlint | i'm picking up an android phone tomorrow, heh | 04:36 |
| doc|home | imagine if NOKLA actually put out decent phones, with android on them... | 04:36 |
| ieatlint | local carrier is offering all phones for "free" this weekend | 04:36 |
| doc|home | ieatlint: nice, with a contract? what are you getting? | 04:36 |
| ieatlint | just $25 upgrade fee, 2 year agreement and a 10% sales tax on the original retail price | 04:37 |
| ieatlint | g2 | 04:37 |
| doc|home | isn't that thing ancient? | 04:37 |
| ieatlint | nah | 04:37 |
| ieatlint | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_G2 | 04:37 |
| ieatlint | came out in october i think | 04:37 |
| ieatlint | 768mb of ram... highest of any phone i've seen | 04:37 |
| ieatlint | err, no, 512... damnit, thinking of something else | 04:37 |
| Ken-Young | Doc - was there actually a NOKLA ? | 04:38 |
| doc|home | Ken-Young: yep | 04:38 |
| ieatlint | yeah, they make knock-offs as i recall | 04:38 |
| Ken-Young | I want one!!! | 04:38 |
| doc|home | http://www.engadget.com/tag/nokla/ | 04:38 |
| ieatlint | go search for "nokla n900" | 04:38 |
| doc|home | "As with some previous HTC devices, the G2 has a NAND lock that normally prevents overwriting the operating system unless authorized by the manufacturer. Third parties have, however, overcome this lock and third party operating systems such as CyanogenMod are available." | 04:39 |
| doc|home | seriously, this is open?! | 04:39 |
| * doc|home sighs | 04:39 | |
| ieatlint | yes, it's open | 04:39 |
| ieatlint | well, broken open | 04:39 |
| doc|home | open as in [not really]open | 04:40 |
| ieatlint | half-assed security that was easily cracked and htc just kinda went "meh, ok, do what you want" | 04:40 |
| wmarone | doc|home: keep in mind that the OS being open has nothing to do with the end device being open | 04:41 |
| ieatlint | anyway, it's the best android phone i know of with a hardware keyboard | 04:41 |
| ieatlint | which is a feature i consider essential | 04:41 |
| wmarone | ^^ | 04:41 |
| doc|home | wmarone: agreed, but not unimportant | 04:41 |
| wmarone | not at all | 04:41 |
| wmarone | open devices are the best devices | 04:41 |
| ieatlint | yeah, it's why we all use our openmoko freerunners | 04:42 |
| wmarone | well | 04:42 |
| doc|home | ieatlint: :( | 04:42 |
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| wmarone | sometimes there are stinkers ;) | 04:42 |
| doc|home | anyone want to buy a freerunner? Hardly used (because it was never really usable) | 04:42 |
| ieatlint | and it was the htc glacier that had 768mb of ram.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Glacier | 04:42 |
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| wmarone | I'm gonna keep an eye on Samsung, rasterman has been rumbling about stuff behind the scenes at samsung that deals with exactly what we want | 04:43 |
| ieatlint | doc|home: now now, it can run qtopia, which makes it more compatible with nokia products than wp7 | 04:43 |
| doc|home | ieatlint: sob | 04:43 |
| ieatlint | wmarone: yeah, i'll be curious... i still really like EFL | 04:43 |
| ieatlint | EFL on the freerunner really proved to me how awesome it was | 04:43 |
| wmarone | I haven't looked at EFL before, but if everything else is true then they'll win over people watching meego | 04:44 |
| wmarone | at least in the mobile front | 04:44 |
| ieatlint | and samsung has demoed bada, but it's already way behind schedule too.. | 04:44 |
| doc|home | wmarone: where has he been rumbling? | 04:44 |
| ieatlint | won't believe it until it's out | 04:44 |
| doc|home | wmarone: now would be a nice time for a non-vapourware announcement | 04:44 |
| ieatlint | he's been in here talking about it | 04:44 |
| wmarone | ieatlint: pretty much what I said, it's not relevant until I can check it out | 04:44 |
| wmarone | in here, in #meego | 04:44 |
| wmarone | on his homepage | 04:44 |
| ieatlint | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada_(operating_system) | 04:45 |
| ieatlint | for some info | 04:45 |
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| doc|home | no qt support? | 04:45 |
| wmarone | qt should work fine on it | 04:45 |
| doc|home | that was what I liked about it. I could learn one language for multi-environment desktop and mobile apps | 04:46 |
| doc|home | ok, that'd be good | 04:46 |
| ieatlint | and EFL is great because you build your UIs in EDJE, which is a json-style language not unlike QML. you then compile the EDJE, and reference the objects in it with C | 04:46 |
| doc|home | it = meego | 04:46 |
| doc|home | hmmm | 04:46 |
| ieatlint | lets you build UIs from images, or make widgets and move them around on the screen | 04:46 |
| ieatlint | pretty cool, and incredibly efficient... it's VERY fast | 04:46 |
| ieatlint | there's python bindings too | 04:46 |
| doc|home | I'm liking the sound of this | 04:47 |
| ieatlint | if you ever used SHR on the freerunner, it was EFL | 04:47 |
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| doc|home | I did, and liked it, except when trying to use the settings screen :) | 04:48 |
| doc|home | that lagged like hell | 04:48 |
| wmarone | ieatlint: it should even be possible to make it run on the N900, what with all the important bits available in MeeGo | 04:48 |
| wmarone | (someone grab those bits, quick!) | 04:48 |
| ieatlint | wmarone: been done... i think DocScrutinizer has a video of it somewhere | 04:48 |
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| ieatlint | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI hmm.. well, someone does there anyway | 04:48 |
| wmarone | yeah ok | 04:49 |
| jonwil | I have a proposal regarding N900 GPS and MeeGo, who should I talk to about it? | 04:50 |
| ieatlint | jonwil: microsoft | 04:50 |
| nox- | well if meego really is dead... | 04:50 |
| doc|home | hehehe | 04:50 |
| wmarone | yuk yuk yuk | 04:50 |
| doc|home | have they confirmed it's dead? | 04:50 |
| wmarone | nox-: It's not, thus far | 04:50 |
| nox- | ah | 04:50 |
| psycho_oreos | Stskeeps | 04:51 |
| doc|home | I mean, intel may keep developing it? | 04:51 |
| nox- | mh | 04:51 |
| doc|home | but even then, meego + nokia looks pretty dead | 04:51 |
| ieatlint | nokia's official comments say that they will be releasing a meego device this year, and then change meego to be a research platform | 04:51 |
| doc|home | idiots | 04:51 |
| nox- | :( | 04:51 |
| ieatlint | they have not said this device is a phone | 04:51 |
| jonwil | I don't see any reason why Nokia wont finish the MeeGo-on-n900 bits that only Nokia can do | 04:51 |
| psycho_oreos | nokia is dead meego isn't | 04:51 |
| doc|home | psycho_oreos: yeah | 04:51 |
| ieatlint | and i would say there is a very high possibility it'll be cancelled altogether | 04:51 |
| doc|home | jonwil: I don't see any reason for them to do it :/ | 04:51 |
| wmarone | ieatlint: no doubt, Ballmer's probably offering to cut them a check so they do it | 04:52 |
| doc|home | jonwil: dead end platform as far as nokia cares now | 04:52 |
| jonwil | MeeGo-on-n900 was always a dead platform | 04:52 |
| wmarone | not dead | 04:52 |
| wmarone | just reference and developmental target | 04:52 |
| ieatlint | wmarone: hardly, tiny chance it'll be a success, so it looks good for MS if they can say "yeah, look, you made a meego phone and the WP7 phones outsold it 3 to 1" | 04:52 |
| doc|home | jonwil: sure, but meego + nokia wasn't until now | 04:52 |
| wmarone | ieatlint: but even MS would get called on that kind of crap | 04:53 |
| ieatlint | dunno... from what i hear about the state of meego phones, it's crap | 04:53 |
| ieatlint | no where near ready for retail | 04:53 |
| ieatlint | the n9 is also definitely cancelled | 04:53 |
| ieatlint | another phone may use the name, but the one rumoured with leaked photos is simply gone, at least as a meego device | 04:54 |
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| jonwil | I still believe Nokia has made the worst business decision of its entire history | 04:55 |
| jonwil | Customers who want WP7 will for the most part go with someone like HTC who have been doing Windows Phone for years | 04:56 |
| TiagoTiago | and it did made some very bad ones before | 04:56 |
| nox- | yeah it definitely wasnt a smart move... | 04:56 |
| ieatlint | i'm not convinced they did.. they're a hardware company. they make beautiful hardware... but they haven't made a decent and polished mobile OS in years. they can't compete with software | 04:56 |
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| ieatlint | not sure MS was at all the right choice | 04:56 |
| b-man` | today is a sad, sad day.. :( | 04:56 |
| jonwil | although I think Nokia is caught between a rock and a hard place. Maemo/Harmattan/MeeGo is nowhere near usable for a consumer smartphone | 04:56 |
| ieatlint | but the concept is legit | 04:57 |
| ieatlint | jonwil: exactly | 04:57 |
| jonwil | Symbian is out-dated and badly in need of replacement | 04:57 |
| ieatlint | and symbian is crappy and lagged | 04:57 |
| ieatlint | and simply can't compete | 04:57 |
| jonwil | And | 04:57 |
| ieatlint | and | 04:57 |
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| jonwil | although I still think Nokia could have been done better with Android | 04:57 |
| jonwil | than with WP7 | 04:57 |
| ieatlint | webos i still think would've been more interesting | 04:58 |
| jonwil | webos isnt available | 04:58 |
| jonwil | its Palm (now GP) only | 04:58 |
| jonwil | HP | 04:58 |
| ieatlint | i bet hp would've played ball | 04:58 |
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| TiagoTiago | Pretty much anything, other than iOS, would be better than MS' OS | 04:59 |
| doc|home | jonwil: what ieatlint said... | 04:59 |
| * doc|home eating and therefore slow | 04:59 | |
| ieatlint | it'd benefit hp a lot | 04:59 |
| ieatlint | and hp and nokia already are huge business partners | 04:59 |
| Ken-Young | I'd prefer iOS to WP7. | 04:59 |
| ieatlint | android wasn't chosen because nokia didn't want to be just another android phone maker... they'd rather be THE windows phone maker | 04:59 |
| doc|home | Ken-Young: I'm not sure I'd go *that* far :) | 04:59 |
| wmarone | Ken-Young: it's mostly the same, either way ;P | 05:00 |
| jonwil | Whats really needed is a brand new smartphone OS based on a true linux foundation, not the half-assed job that Android and WebOS and etc have been | 05:00 |
| jonwil | Good solid linux base with good solid hardware underneath | 05:00 |
| ieatlint | well, that's not meego either :P | 05:00 |
| jonwil | whats wrong with MeeGo? | 05:00 |
| jonwil | are there design decisions made there that are wrong? | 05:00 |
| ieatlint | the fact that development is done internally and secretly | 05:00 |
| ieatlint | they push huge blobs of code out every three to six months | 05:01 |
| mikki-kun | hm, what is acutally an alternative to maemo? (if my n900 breaks and i can't find another one; meego is as of now out of the race, unknown release) | 05:01 |
| ieatlint | so the community can't participate, because the code you're working on is already out of date by the time it's available | 05:01 |
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| doc|home | hahaha, from #meego http://i.imgur.com/dMX1f.png | 05:01 |
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| ieatlint | ends up being open source just like android is. you can get the source, which meets the basic definition of "open source", but not much more | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | doc|home: so sad. | 05:02 |
| wmarone | ieatlint: what parts are developed in secret? | 05:02 |
| jonwil | but yeah like I said, build a true open source foundation developed as open source and then build whatever fancy proprietary UX you need to differentiate the product | 05:03 |
| mikki-kun | doc|home: AWESOME XD | 05:03 |
| Ken-Young | I am puzzled about the purpose of the Maemo Garage. If I submit an app to Extras Testing, is there any advantage to having the project in the garage too? I know it provides mailing list, discussion areas etc - but those ALWAYS seem to be empty. What's the point of the garage, for apps? | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | February last year: http://twistedminds.ru/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/maemo-rip.jpg | 05:03 |
| ieatlint | wmarone: there are internal repos with much much more developed meego versions than public | 05:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That's twice Nokia has made me feel like I've been punched in the stomach in less than 12 months. | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bastards. | 05:03 |
| Dhraakellian | which was the first one again? | 05:04 |
| ieatlint | i bet the meego conference is still on :P | 05:04 |
| wmarone | GeneralAntilles: worst part is how all the people responsible for stupid decisions like that are going to be sticking around | 05:04 |
| Dhraakellian | memory being short | 05:04 |
| * jonwil wonders what Nokia gains by having internal repos for MeeGo and not having it developed out in puiblic | 05:04 | |
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| doc|home | jonwil: control | 05:04 |
| psycho_oreos | GeneralAntilles, haha that image is gold | 05:04 |
| doc|home | jonwil: and no interfering 3rd party devs | 05:04 |
| ieatlint | it'll be like a wake... lots of alcohol, a bunch of people talking about how awesome meego "is", and the dead body of nokia in the room | 05:04 |
| jonwil | they could still have control by limiting acceptance of patches | 05:04 |
| TiagoTiago | How much of the hardware APIs on the N900 remain closed? | 05:05 |
| mikki-kun | GeneralAntilles: what was the first punch? | 05:05 |
| Dhraakellian | doc|home: even if they opened it up to read-only access? | 05:05 |
| ieatlint | jonwil: hiding the fact that the system is severely behind schedule from their shareholders | 05:05 |
| jonwil | yeah good point ieatint | 05:05 |
| doc|home | Dhraakellian: can do that from what they release | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikki-kun: MeeGo. | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://twistedminds.ru/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/maemo-rip.jpg | 05:05 |
| mikki-kun | hey, we still can hope for harmattan, can we? | 05:05 |
| jonwil | As for closed hardware on the N900, the BME is still closed | 05:06 |
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| Dhraakellian | GeneralAntilles: while I'm unsure of whether MeeGo's UI would be better than Maemo's, that's less of a punch | 05:06 |
| doc|home | mikki-kun: what's the point? :/ | 05:06 |
| Dhraakellian | it's still F/OSS(mostly) | 05:06 |
| jonwil | the low level interface to the CAL is closed | 05:06 |
| ieatlint | mikki-kun: not ruled out, but i personally bet it will get cancelled | 05:06 |
| mikki-kun | doc|home: harmattan is independant from meego | 05:06 |
| Dhraakellian | wtf-tla: CAL, BME? | 05:06 |
| mikki-kun | ieatlint: i do hope not, but hey, let's not abandon all hope, shall we? | 05:07 |
| jonwil | CAL is the special phone configuration area | 05:07 |
| ieatlint | harmattan is more of a hybrid of meego... not really independent methinks | 05:07 |
| doc|home | mikki-kun: I know, but, why bother? do people care that much about meego on the phone? | 05:07 |
| jonwil | for things like the wifi mac address | 05:07 |
| Dhraakellian | jonwil: ah | 05:07 |
| jonwil | BME is the battery management daemon | 05:07 |
| wmarone | doc|home: meego is, as an OS, open in ways that maemo is not | 05:07 |
| Dhraakellian | the actual GSM stack is also proprietary, isn't it? | 05:07 |
| Dhraakellian | given that the only FS GSM stack out there only did 2G, last I heard | 05:07 |
| jonwil | on Maemo the telephony stack is closed | 05:07 |
| wmarone | Dhraakellian: yes, but it also does not run in user space | 05:08 |
| doc|home | Dhraakellian: I think legally they have to be | 05:08 |
| jonwil | on MeeGo, the cell modem firmware remains closed | 05:08 |
| Dhraakellian | @%$&@ the FCC | 05:08 |
| Dhraakellian | seriously | 05:08 |
| jonwil | but the userspace bits are open source via ofono | 05:08 |
| mikki-kun | ieatlint: i took it for granted harmattan might be built on top of maemo and tweaked and made better and some meego patches being incorporated... might have been the perfec platform to sell for meego-development if made properly | 05:08 |
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| Dhraakellian | loophole-filled net neutrality, decency laws... | 05:08 |
| TiagoTiago | even with the stack itself being closed, couldn't they still have opened the API to use the stack? | 05:08 |
| Dhraakellian | as a ham, I suppose I should stay on their good side, but still narf the FCC with a dull rusty spoon | 05:09 |
| jonwil | the API for talking to the cell modem is largely open via the ofono source code | 05:09 |
| TiagoTiago | ah | 05:09 |
| Dhraakellian | jonwil: but the actual communication with the hardware is closed? | 05:09 |
| jonwil | the communication with the cell modem is 100% open | 05:09 |
| jonwil | well not 100% | 05:10 |
| jonwil | but its open | 05:10 |
| jonwil | the details of the CPU running the cell modem firmware are proprietary though | 05:10 |
| jonwil | its separate to the main CPU | 05:11 |
| jonwil | its just a black box you talk to with a documented interface | 05:11 |
| wmarone | it's probably some evil low power MIPS thing ;) | 05:11 |
| jonwil | Its probably ARM | 05:11 |
| Dhraakellian | jonwil: which is the thing to which Stallman et al. object | 05:11 |
| doc|home | it's not, it's regulatory | 05:11 |
| Dhraakellian | and for good reason, methinks | 05:11 |
| jonwil | Also closed is the stuff that sends the WiFi settings to the wlan card (which appears to be closed because its the bit that determines whether to apply US FCC WiFi rules, EU WiFi rules or whatever) | 05:12 |
| jonwil | e.g. which channels the WiFi chip can legally talk on | 05:12 |
| wmarone | Dhraakellian: RMS and the like may get antsy about it, but you have to know which battles to fight | 05:12 |
| TiagoTiago | using those pads in the back, would t be possible to interface the main processor to the modem more directly? | 05:12 |
| Dhraakellian | wmarone: still, I think they do have a point | 05:12 |
| wmarone | TiagoTiago: if there are even connections for that | 05:12 |
| jonwil | Also closed is the PowerVR GPU | 05:13 |
| wmarone | Dhraakellian: and the only way they can win that argument is by offering up an alternative, thus the open source GSM stack | 05:13 |
| wmarone | however I think they'll hit EDGE about the time everyone is done moving to LTE | 05:13 |
| Dhraakellian | yarr | 05:13 |
| jonwil | The problem with the opensource stacks is that actually talking to a real cell tower with it would be illegal | 05:14 |
| * Dhraakellian wonders if Ron Paul could be convinced to crusade against the FCC as unconstitutional | 05:14 | |
| Dhraakellian | jonwil: not part-whatever certified? | 05:14 |
| wmarone | jonwil: well, if they get it tested and signed off by the FCC, they can't rightly complain | 05:14 |
| doc|home | Dhraakellian: I believe that he already does | 05:14 |
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| Dhraakellian | wmarone: well, a particular build could be | 05:14 |
| TiagoTiago | It's illegal to connect to a tower with custom software even if it's well behaved? | 05:14 |
| wmarone | Dhraakellian: No thanks, I rather like not having errant electromagnetic signals destroying all of my electronics | 05:15 |
| jonwil | GPS and camera I believe may be partially closed on N900 MeeGo | 05:15 |
| jonwil | GPS is definatly closed | 05:15 |
| jonwil | camera I am not sure about | 05:15 |
| Dhraakellian | wmarone: yeah, it sucks either way | 05:15 |
| doc|home | TiagoTiago: <conspiracy> how do you have a backdoor if it's custom software? :) | 05:15 |
| Dhraakellian | friggin' human nature | 05:15 |
| wmarone | camera software is, I think FCamera API directly interfaces | 05:15 |
| wmarone | the camera does run closed firmware though | 05:15 |
| doc|home | back later | 05:15 |
| jonwil | as do the WiFi and bluetooth chips | 05:16 |
| wmarone | I don't consider firmware a problem | 05:16 |
| * Dhraakellian wonders if he should bother looking into porting the Qt4 branch of Qtel (Linux echolink client) to Maemo | 05:16 | |
| jonwil | but yeah I am hoping Nokia will document the cell-modem commands required to talk to the GPS | 05:16 |
| wmarone | jonwil: true | 05:16 |
| Dhraakellian | might be a tad ambitious for a first project, but it'd be cool to have, and I'd probably learn a fair bit along the way | 05:17 |
| jonwil | I hope Nokia opens up the GPS instead of doing a half-assed port of the Maemo GPS stack to MeeGo | 05:18 |
| jonwil | No reason they cant just document the isi calls and let the community write a gpsd backend for it | 05:18 |
| doc|home | jonwil: yeah, because what we're getting from them with today's news is open is something they care about :) | 05:18 |
| jonwil | they may not care about "open" | 05:19 |
| wmarone | doc|home: get the sympathetic ears while you can! | 05:19 |
| doc|home | hehehe | 05:19 |
| jonwil | but they may care about "less work for us to maintain this stuff" | 05:19 |
| TiagoTiago | We need some pissed off hackers to reverse enginner the stuff, pissed off hackers usually get the job done much faster than when the hackers still wanna give the company a chance | 05:19 |
| jonwil | I am a pissed off hacker who has been reverse engineering stuff and getting nowhere | 05:19 |
| TiagoTiago | we need more of you | 05:20 |
| jonwil | pissed off that the N900 cant support a feature (cell broadcast) supported on a cheap B&W screen nokia dumbphone from 10 years ago | 05:21 |
| jonwil | pissed off that the only reason it cant support it is because we dont know how to listen to the IncomingCBS signal and because we cant talk to the connectivity UI libraries (libconnui, libconnui-cellular etc) | 05:21 |
| TiagoTiago | like how it happened with Kinect, with the PS3 and so on, if the companies didn't piss off the hackers and bragged about the alleged inviolability of their systems things would be much different today | 05:21 |
| jonwil | MS actually supported hacking of Kinect | 05:22 |
| Dhraakellian | Sony actually let users run Linux | 05:22 |
| Dhraakellian | ...and look how that turned out | 05:22 |
| TiagoTiago | Didn't they bragged about how it couldn't be hacked and tried to sue some people that were offering a prize to get it hacked? | 05:23 |
| TiagoTiago | The problem started when they removed the ability to run Linux | 05:23 |
| Dhraakellian | yarr | 05:23 |
| jonwil | The problem started with the PS3 slim didnt include the linux support | 05:23 |
| Dhraakellian | the DMCA needs to die. | 05:23 |
| Dhraakellian | no, it needs to have died back in 1998 | 05:23 |
| Dhraakellian | </tangent> | 05:23 |
| jonwil | that then got geohot and others inerested | 05:24 |
| jonwil | and they came up with the initial exploit | 05:24 |
| jonwil | the memory glitching or whatever | 05:24 |
| TiagoTiago | They also removed the ability on older models with a fw update | 05:24 |
| jonwil | which caused Sony to get mad and remove OtherOS | 05:24 |
| jonwil | which caused the hackers to get even madder | 05:24 |
| jonwil | eventually leading first to the PS3 jailbreak | 05:24 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, that part i wasn't aware | 05:24 |
| jonwil | then to the discovery of the weakness in the Sony crypto which lead to the secret signing keys being published | 05:25 |
| mikki-kun | jonwil: failoverfl0w did iirc the real jailbreaking, the maths behind it and such, geohot just followed those instructions so everyone can get the key "fast" | 05:25 |
| TiagoTiago | anyway, seems the bestway to get things hacked faster is to piss off hackers and dare them to do it | 05:25 |
| jonwil | and then to the current "lets sue anyone even THINKING about doing something with a PS3 other than playing games or watching media content" lawsuits | 05:26 |
| mikki-kun | jonwil: "it only does everything" <--- sony's slogan for the ps3... yeah, except let you hack it to make it do everything again... | 05:26 |
| TiagoTiago | Well, with the crappy protection it actually does | 05:27 |
| mikki-kun | Sony just sues you then | 05:27 |
| jonwil | If I had the information on the IncomingCBS signal and the header files for libconnui and libconnui-cellular, I could have cell broadcast SMS (at least for the cell tower location) working by the end of the month | 05:27 |
| TiagoTiago | The device let you do it, the company on the other hand.... | 05:28 |
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| jonwil | If I had the headers for libisi (and the right ones for the N900 cell modem) I could pull large chunks of the telephony stack apart... (GPS included) | 05:29 |
| mikki-kun | jonwil: let's hope they copied sony with "int getrandomnumber" ^^ | 05:29 |
| TiagoTiago | Btw, is the code and instructions to set up your own cryptbreaker PS3 cluster avaiable on the net? | 05:30 |
| jonwil | I dont mean the modem firmware | 05:30 |
| jonwil | I mean the user-space stack | 05:30 |
| jonwil | the modem firmware I dont care about | 05:30 |
| jonwil | I care about the user space stack, i.e. the csd daemon and friends | 05:30 |
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| jonwil | and the GPS daemon | 05:30 |
| jonwil | and stuff | 05:30 |
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| mikki-kun | TiagoTiago: cryptbreaker ps3 cluster? | 05:31 |
| TiagoTiago | like the FBI did | 05:31 |
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| TiagoTiago | Or perhaps it was the CIA or somthing | 05:31 |
| mikki-kun | that uhhhh..... for pw-cracking? | 05:31 |
| TiagoTiago | they put a bunch of PS3 together to make a cheap super computer to break encryptions | 05:32 |
| TiagoTiago | before Sony locked things down | 05:32 |
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| mikki-kun | hm... army uses them for image processing | 05:36 |
| mikki-kun | i think they have around 2k ps3s for that | 05:37 |
| Termana | So, that's why the US hasn't found Osama Bin Laden | 05:38 |
| Termana | 2000 PS3s | 05:38 |
| Termana | I wonder if tax payers get told, "Yeah, we brought 2000 ps3s with your tax money" | 05:39 |
| Termana | :P | 05:39 |
| Sc0rpius | so it's obvious we all here have our PS3 jailbroken | 05:40 |
| Sc0rpius | otherwise all this talking would be kinda useless hehehe | 05:40 |
| Sc0rpius | and I'm kidding :) | 05:40 |
| * Dhraakellian does not have any gaming consoles | 05:40 | |
| Dhraakellian | more of a Nexuiz/Xonotic guy myself | 05:41 |
| mikki-kun | Sc0rpius: my ps3 is quarter a globe away from me :/ | 05:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | I am considering buying one or two when i get enough money | 05:42 |
| TiagoTiago | Wasn't before the key cracking event | 05:43 |
| mikki-kun | Termana: cheaper and more efficient than buying those chips and assembling the machines | 05:44 |
| Termana | mikki-kun, that's probably true, though I don't think a majority of the tax payers would actually realise that. | 05:46 |
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| Termana | I also don't own a PS3. I don't have time to play games :p | 05:46 |
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| jonwil | If I can find the right people to ping maybe I can get some of the headers and info I need for my projects to succeed :) | 05:55 |
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| jonwil | but finding the right people to ping is the hard part :P | 05:58 |
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| jonwil | Guess everyone left :( | 06:10 |
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| wmarone | usually gets quiet around this time | 06:15 |
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| jonwil | :) | 06:20 |
| jonwil | maybe I will find someone appropriate to ping later :) | 06:23 |
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| GAN900 | Termana, funny, neither do I. *g* | 06:57 |
| sid | 2 minutes | 06:59 |
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| sid | then here in germany antique | 07:00 |
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| sid | then in germany ancient time stamp for {[] | 07:01 |
| sid | for night sleep time is over | 07:01 |
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| lardman | morning | 07:31 |
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| prgrm | anyone else get a ^M when they press enter in a remote vim sesh? | 07:38 |
| pahartik | prgrm: It is known issue on "Maemo fremantle" | 07:38 |
| lardman | I've got some random ^M in my dmesg output on the Tab | 07:39 |
| prgrm | phellarv: cause? workaround? | 07:40 |
| prgrm | *pahartik | 07:40 |
| sid | no | 07:45 |
| sid | don't get a ^m | 07:45 |
| pahartik | prgrm: There is patch... Trying to see if I can find it... | 07:45 |
| prgrm | i was thinkin it was a TERM issue, but its only vim (sometimes dpkg as well has issues) | 07:48 |
| prgrm | maybe ill just upgrade vim to maverick or natty... i was hoping there was an easy fix. | 07:48 |
| pahartik | prgrm: It is issue on "Maemo", upgrading remote system is not expected to help | 07:50 |
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| sid | remote or local? | 07:51 |
| prgrm | is it a TERM issue? | 07:52 |
| sid | cant reproduce it | 07:52 |
| pahartik | prgrm: Does description on this document look correct: "https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009"? | 07:54 |
| povbot | Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications | 07:54 |
| prgrm | its a gnu screen issue appearently... | 07:57 |
| prgrm | iv discovered.. | 07:57 |
| prgrm | i wasnt thinkin about it, i use screen so much | 07:57 |
| pahartik | prgrm: It is not "screen" issue, but "screen" is one application that reveals it | 07:59 |
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| prgrm | wtf mann | 08:00 |
| villager | in my experience, it is only reproducible in the maemo xterm app, and only with certain fullscreen apps that manipulate the terminal (including "less" and various editors) | 08:05 |
| pahartik | prgrm: If I recall correctly, I fixed it on "Maemo fremantle PR1.2" I currently use by "dpkg --install", maybe one can fetch that... "libvte" from "Community SSU"... | 08:05 |
| prgrm | what is the community ssu? | 08:06 |
| pahartik | prgrm: It is what "Maemo fremantle" continues as, after "Nokia" lost interest in it... Community upgrade | 08:08 |
| prgrm | ah | 08:08 |
| villager | what's with all the double quotes? | 08:09 |
| pahartik | prgrm: Document at "http://wiki.maemo.org.ipv6.sixxs.org/Community_SSU" | 08:10 |
| prgrm | thanks | 08:11 |
| prgrm | the bug reports have some workarounds. i was suspecting there were some TERM issues... | 08:11 |
| prgrm | i love maemo | 08:14 |
| prgrm | friggin awesome | 08:14 |
| sid | can you provide a example | 08:14 |
| prgrm | sid: apt/dpkg upgrades complain of LC_* crap | 08:15 |
| sid | output - pastbin | 08:15 |
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| kerio | i have to push "s" for "si" even if apt tells me "(Y/n)" | 08:16 |
| kerio | beat that | 08:16 |
| prgrm | sid: its random, and i havnt been saving apt-get output | 08:17 |
| prgrm | kerio wha? | 08:18 |
| kerio | on apt | 08:18 |
| prgrm | howd you do that? | 08:19 |
| sid | prgrm: random? than it is unique: reproduce it and post it | 08:21 |
| prgrm | sid: unique to certain packages maybe, reproducing it is a low prio as its non-blocking | 08:25 |
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| prgrm | again prob related to the half ass vte implementation | 08:25 |
| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html | 08:26 |
| prgrm | i may try the community ssu stuff, looks promising | 08:26 |
| sid | sorry, but .e.g? | 08:26 |
| sid | some sampe outout or else | 08:27 |
| prgrm | sid: ill get right on it | 08:28 |
| sid | pupnik: wont open a file without description | 08:29 |
| sid | 'will not | 08:29 |
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| pupnik | sid: good policy - it is a picture i made while drunk of a bug on my hand | 08:31 |
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| pahartik | prgrm_: Supposedly fixed "libvte" seems to be available at "http://repository.maemo.org.ipv6.sixxs.org/community-testing/pool/fremantle/free/v/vte/" | 08:41 |
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| sid | sorry; you are definely right; its a bug! | 08:51 |
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| doc|home | my n800 is being weird | 09:44 |
| doc|home | time to reflash I think :( | 09:44 |
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| prgrm | im pissed i just rebooted my n900 cuz i thought it had a prob, but it was my wireless. now my uptimes back to 0. :( | 09:47 |
| prgrm | from 16 days | 09:48 |
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| ruskie | prgrm, I had an uptime of ~100days ) | 10:10 |
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| prgrm | what is community-ssu-enabler suppoed to do? | 10:26 |
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| kerio | prgrm: enable the community ssu | 10:31 |
| kerio | duh | 10:31 |
| kerio | :P | 10:31 |
| sid | log? | 10:35 |
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| Kowalczyk | hi. im trying to install bluemaemo but get this error: conflicts with application package: libeina0 | 10:38 |
| Kowalczyk | any got a clue? | 10:38 |
| Kowalczyk | or is it just broken and cant be installed in any way? | 10:41 |
| pupnik | keep trying | 10:43 |
| pupnik | contact package maintainer | 10:43 |
| pupnik | you know how to do that Kowalczyk ? | 10:43 |
| Kowalczyk | hehe no. but will try again _:D | 10:43 |
| pupnik | Kowalczyk: unlike with microsoft | 10:44 |
| pupnik | with maemo | 10:44 |
| pupnik | you can talk to the guy who made the package | 10:44 |
| pupnik | so do that | 10:44 |
| Kowalczyk | ok :) will look into it.. but I have to go now. thanks | 10:44 |
| sid | -libeina0 | 10:45 |
| pahartik | ruskie: I had "Nokia N900" uptime of more than 100 days but then once fell asleep without it connected to charger | 10:46 |
| sid | or -Kowalczyk it will probally work | 10:46 |
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| * Trizt got a bit horrified when read the Nokia news at Tom's hardware... seems like next cellphone may not be a Nokia :( | 10:50 | |
| ruskie | will be... but it will be a S40 device ;) | 10:50 |
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| psycho_oreos | or WP7 | 10:50 |
| ruskie | nope | 10:51 |
| ruskie | of course it'll be quite some years before I'll even consider replacing the N900... | 10:51 |
| ruskie | and even then I'll have a spare somewhere... | 10:51 |
| prgrm | friggin extras-devel is causing havoc | 10:51 |
| psycho_oreos | I was tempted to purchase another N900 but it seems like I'll have to purchase another one in the state of used form | 10:52 |
| kerio | >hire ex microsoft executive | 10:52 |
| kerio | >act surprised when he opens up a tie-in with microsoft | 10:52 |
| doc|home | you left out the bit in the middle where they ditch their stock | 10:54 |
| psycho_oreos | and do what when he hired more microsoft employees? like that one whose going to be in charge of sales and what not in US? | 10:54 |
| psycho_oreos | and the axing of N9 | 10:54 |
| sid | hmmm i just can plug my dev to a serial terminal, get a secure connection and reset my pair; | 10:54 |
| sid | thats what i need | 10:55 |
| pupnik | either spend your time hurting microsoft, or building a better alternative | 10:55 |
| doc|home | by doing the latter you do the former. Stick to the latter. | 10:55 |
| doc|home | doing the former is their play. | 10:56 |
| kerio | but the former is fun | 10:56 |
| doc|home | hehe, night | 10:56 |
| pupnik | well i got to give doc|home some respect for that | 10:56 |
| pupnik | cheers | 10:56 |
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| pupnik | however the former does work | 10:58 |
| pupnik | if done intelligently | 10:59 |
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| sid | i will not discuss, find it gread | 11:00 |
| pupnik | you will notice, i'm still alive | 11:01 |
| pupnik | :) | 11:01 |
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| sid | it works great; reset serial devices; or/and flush bootloader | 11:02 |
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| sid | like gta02; ok... majabe some zombees will kick my head off; its ok | 11:04 |
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| sid | ........ just forgot those devices in dc. | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | prgrm: pahartik: (^M) sid is right, install the libvte patch and it's ok. See the ticket mentioned above, or http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 11:08 |
| prgrm | im on it | 11:09 |
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| pahartik | DocScrutinizer: Acknowledged | 11:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer is watching chanel's PANIC-meter | 11:13 | |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moo Jaffa | 11:19 |
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| noodles900 | what a pita to do updates over gprs :( | 11:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | depends | 11:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my GPRS 3G is waaay faster than my ADSL | 11:20 |
| noodles900 | I suppose I could purge some apps that I don't use | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | 7.xMB vs 2MB | 11:20 |
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| noodles900 | ah - lucky you. I have plain old gprs | 11:21 |
| travertin12 | can i install maemo on a asus mypal a626 pda device? | 11:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now that sucks for sure | 11:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | travertin12: yes, but it won't run | 11:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | travertin12: sorry, of course not | 11:22 |
| travertin12 | funny thank you | 11:22 |
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| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: I'll ask my network company if they have 3G | 11:22 |
| psycho_oreos | maemo isn't developed as an OS for other platforms unless you have the matching hardware to begin with | 11:22 |
| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: is 2G worth exploring? | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and maemo isn't FOSS to port it | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | noodles900: depends what's your definition of "exploring" | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and maybe also definition of "worth" | 11:24 |
| noodles900 | ;) | 11:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | EDGE is quite OK for many usecases | 11:24 |
| * noodles900 calls customer service in Thai | 11:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | plus it's usually more battery friendly | 11:25 |
| noodles900 | let's see.... | 11:25 |
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| noodles900 | ok I'll ask aboutedge too-tks | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | EDGE would get you a 2.5 sign automatically if available, I guess | 11:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | noodles900: city? | 11:26 |
| noodles900 | I get a 2 sign | 11:26 |
| noodles900 | just outside Bangkok | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | how much outside? | 11:27 |
| noodles900 | province called Samut Prkarn | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1000m, or 5+km? | 11:27 |
| noodles900 | town called Pak Nam | 11:27 |
| jaska | my area only has 2g and 3/3.5g :< so i keep it in 2g mode for ssh us | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | noodles900: odds are you only got 2G there | 11:28 |
| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: about 20kms | 11:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3G only in huge towns | 11:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | way too far from Bankok's possibly fast 3G towers | 11:28 |
| noodles900 | hmmm, so that's what I have now? | 11:29 |
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| noodles900 | does the system automatically put you on the best connection or is that a manual option? | 11:30 |
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| sid | they only eats "power" - my scripts | 11:31 |
| noodles900 | I only see GPRS-WAP1 in the list | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | noodles900: http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand | 11:31 |
| noodles900 | is that really going to show in this screen? | 11:32 |
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| * noodles900 clicks and makes coffee while waiting | 11:33 | |
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| noodles900 | got the map and it's wrong atfirst glance ;) | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry I'm lost in http://www1.tot3g.net/Default.aspx - for the char font allone that doesn't even allow me to c&p here :-P Anyway they claim 3G-Nationwide:2011 in that friggin flash video | 11:39 |
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| noodles900 | I'll call cust.serv. ;) | 11:39 |
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| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: they claim a lot of lies here ;) | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | and according to http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand that's the only carrier offering 3G | 11:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand also says "no coverage map available" for that carrier's 3G service | 11:42 |
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| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: I presume if the coverage is available it'll show i the list of available internet connections? | 11:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | err wait | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're talking about N900 settings-internetconnections ? | 11:45 |
| noodles900 | yep | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | there you need to configure the access point of your particular carrier manually | 11:45 |
| noodles900 | it shows me all the wifis | 11:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, wifi. But GPRS is a different thing | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need a SIM to do GPRS | 11:46 |
| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: ah - ok - but wifis don't need that | 11:46 |
| Venemo_N900 | good morning | 11:46 |
| noodles900 | okidoki - back to customer service ;) | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's exactly one GPRS connection in that list (has another roundish icon), and you can edit that | 11:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so if your SIM isn't tot3g carrier, you are probably out of luck with 3G | 11:48 |
| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: can I not have more than one? | 11:49 |
| noodles900 | my sim is Dtac | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually not | 11:49 |
| noodles900 | tot3G have crap coverage out in the provinces | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | but they are the only carrier that says they have 3G in Thailand | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | TOT PLC (TOT Mobile) | 11:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.mobileworldlive.com/maps/network.php?cid=264&cname=Thailand | 11:50 |
| noodles900 | Hmm - need to look into that ;) | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | the others all are 2G | 11:50 |
| noodles900 | I'll call in at their shop tomorrow | 11:50 |
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| noodles900 | see what price the sim is and the other prmotions like free SMS and free call-a-friend | 11:51 |
| noodles900 | I pay about 3US cents a minute to call any mobile in thailand ;) | 11:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also ask if they got 3G at all, in Samut Prkarn | 11:55 |
| noodles900 | yep | 11:55 |
| noodles900 | but I doubt it | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | how many residents living there? | 11:55 |
| noodles900 | nfc | 11:56 |
| noodles900 | it's a big town | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | carriers are supporting hot spots first, like Bankok, then go down to lower customer density / km^2 areas | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | generally speaking hugest town first, then 2nd in size, then 3rd | 11:57 |
| noodles900 | fwiw - I notice that gprs dies when I get a phone call | 11:58 |
| noodles900 | but wifi doesn't die | 11:58 |
| dm8tbr | yes, 2g can't keep IP and CS voice up at the same time | 11:59 |
| kerio | it would be weird otherwise | 11:59 |
| noodles900 | even though maemo has ahabit of spitting out the dummy if there's too much going on | 11:59 |
| kerio | dm8tbr: well, with a compliant carrier the data would just pause | 11:59 |
| noodles900 | kerio: it is onlypaused and resumes ok | 12:00 |
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| kerio | oh, good | 12:00 |
| kerio | then you have a good carrier | 12:00 |
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| noodles900 | anyone found a way to change sim cards without shutting down? | 12:01 |
| Arkenoi | actually class A GPRS allows simultaneous data and voice | 12:01 |
| Arkenoi | but no carrier actually implemented that | 12:01 |
| * noodles900 really wished the n900 was dualsim | 12:01 | |
| BugBlue | most phones you have to shutdown to swap sims | 12:02 |
| BugBlue | solution a dual sim which supports programming on the go and a phone that supports it | 12:02 |
| noodles900 | :( | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: ( 2g can't keep IP and CS voice up at the same time) that's incorrect. With proper support from carrier BTS the N900 actually *can* do calls and data same time, on 2G | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, see Arkenoi ^^^ | 12:03 |
| noodles900 | thanks for the help guys, DocScrutinizer kerio et al. off now... | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | noodles900: http://www.i-bkk.com/ilocation/viewer/ | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www1.tot3g.net/Default.aspx | 12:04 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: yeah, well, just nobody supports it :) | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | are you sure? :-D | 12:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | some carriers here in Europe are really good with implementing / supporting techical stuff | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | just their customer service is abyssmal | 12:07 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: elisa/saunalahti is one of them and I didn't notice so far that they'd have implemented that | 12:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | CBA to test it now, but I'd assume O2 Germany has support for GPRS class A | 12:10 |
| Arkenoi | never seen it actually working, despite e90 was class A terminal | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | saunalahti seems to be really silly about they GPRS. For example I heard they don't bother to NAT/filter inbound traffic, thus I can deplete your battery with a simple nmap attack | 12:12 |
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| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: haven't checked in a while, but I thought they did | 12:12 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: on the other hand, public IP | 12:12 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, you can do that through NAT with a viral youtube video attack | 12:13 |
| johnx | vulnerability in the human brain to moving pictures of cute kittens | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, that's not the same | 12:13 |
| kerio | yeah, that's much better | 12:13 |
| kerio | a lot more kittens | 12:13 |
| kerio | :3 | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can install a blocker for that :-P | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | not for the missing NAT though | 12:14 |
| dm8tbr | hmm at least I seem to be able to ssh in :) | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a plus for ssh, a huge minus for battery standby time :-/ | 12:15 |
| dm8tbr | would need to check how much crud I see incoming, yeah | 12:15 |
| * DocScrutinizer takes mental note to nmap the N900, to make sure there are no backdoors | 12:15 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: well we clearly need nuclear batteries | 12:15 |
| kerio | or two APNs | 12:16 |
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| dm8tbr | though given that I have email, IM, etc, etc my battery doesn't live long anyway | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | what we need are SNMP/UPnP capable NATs at carrier site | 12:16 |
| kerio | nat.saunalahti and open.saunalahti | 12:16 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: what we need is ipv6 | 12:16 |
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| kerio | dm8tbr: how's that relevant here | 12:17 |
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| dm8tbr | NAT is not a solution | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 12:17 |
| kerio | you *want* NAT for your mobile devices | 12:17 |
| * dm8tbr doesn't want NAT, ever | 12:17 | |
| kerio | because otherwise i can just ping your device and drain your battery | 12:17 |
| kerio | even better, i can ping your device once every 10 seconds | 12:18 |
| dm8tbr | kerio: you mistake NAT for a firewall, it's not | 12:18 |
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| kerio | so the data starts and stops | 12:18 |
| kerio | oh ok, give me a configurable firewall at carrier level then | 12:18 |
| dm8tbr | 10s is too frequent for the SL timers | 12:18 |
| MohammadAG | http://twitter.com/#!/RovioMobile/status/35984875131510784 hah | 12:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dtnope, you mistake firewall for sessions in a NAT | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course a good SPI firewall can handle sessions as well | 12:19 |
| merlin_phone | xchat on the n900 sucks, I always close it by accident :/ | 12:19 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: nokia is done | 12:19 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, yep | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you don't need the address translation of a NAT | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | what you need however are the sessions | 12:19 |
| MohammadAG | imho | 12:19 |
| MohammadAG | they should just release the N9 | 12:20 |
| MohammadAG | without an OS | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ack | 12:20 |
| MohammadAG | or with an early build of MeeGo | 12:20 |
| kerio | heh, aava would be pissed | 12:20 |
| MohammadAG | after all, it'll be buggy at release | 12:20 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: RST | 12:20 |
| MohammadAG | Aava can f itself, or lower the price from $2k | 12:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | merlin_phone: never happened here | 12:23 |
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| alterego | i see Nokia stock continued to dive today. | 12:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | merlin_phone: maybe your config sucks? there's a second level requester "really close xchat?" here | 12:23 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, who said it was going to stop? | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: ASK? | 12:24 |
| MohammadAG | I even had a bet that it won't rise up, till at least one week | 12:24 |
| johnx | MohammadAG, the way to make that bet official is called "shorting" :) | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet it's rising Monday the latest | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'll lose my virtual 50k bucks otherwise :-P | 12:25 |
| MohammadAG | I'm just wondering | 12:25 |
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| MohammadAG | didn't somebody at Nokia have a little | 12:25 |
| MohammadAG | just a small urge | 12:25 |
| MohammadAG | to say this idea wasn't good? | 12:25 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I'll lose 3k if stocks rise up monday | 12:26 |
| MohammadAG | and they're not virtual :P | 12:26 |
| johnx | MohammadAG, 1500 people who walked out of work early on Friday | 12:26 |
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| MohammadAG | johnx, I'm talking about boards and such | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA dives??? yesterday I ASKed at 7.01, today it's at 7.10 | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: see /topic ! | 12:28 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, any ideas how I could fix a headset? | 12:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hammer? | 12:28 |
| MohammadAG | the right earpiece isn't working | 12:28 |
| MohammadAG | no seriously | 12:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | short the cable, usually it's broken next to plug | 12:28 |
| MohammadAG | no, it's the earpiece | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG | I found the cables exposed | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | screwit | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't fix transducers | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG | there are two cables, but they aren't broken | 12:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless you want to redo that coil wound from wire thin like a hair | 12:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, you can *not* | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even on 20" bass speakers | 12:32 |
| Trewas | apparently elop is the seventh largest owner of microsoft stock and he has no nokia stock at all... that tells everything really | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | there *are* guys that can fix 20", but I've never heard anybody fixing a headset transducer | 12:32 |
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| johnx | Trewas, Not defending the guy, or his choices, but it's entirely possible that's merely related to stock options / not having vested at Nokia yet | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | monday breaking news: >>Elop arrested for betrayal of employer. Contract with M$ illegal and void. Nokia shares recover quickly<< | 12:34 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, Tuesday: 2011 is declared "Year of Linux on the desktop" | 12:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah and of course: >>EU opens another case against M$, attorney talking about $5B fine" | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Wednesday- nokia announces new way forward. A UI based on Duke Nukem Forever, running on Hurd. | 12:36 |
| Trewas | the board of management must have known of the plans, so it's not like elop is the only one to blame :( | 12:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: \o/ :-D | 12:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Finns should ask their neighbours, about Kaupthing bank | 12:38 |
| Trewas | that's iceland | 12:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so that's no a neighbour of Finland? | 12:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm, speaking of WP7, I heard that recently Microsoft talked with Geohot of the PS3 fame. | 12:39 |
| Trewas | maybe in some sense of the word, though almost all of the mainland europe is closer :) | 12:39 |
| RobbieThe1st | And might start being friendly(somewhat) to homebrew. If that's the case... | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: 'How can we secure our phones better'. | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I honestly seriously give no flying F on what friendly attitude M$ might pretend | 12:40 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: 'Tell us, and we'll buy you all the PS3s and locked google devices you want'. | 12:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | I figure it comes down to this: If Microsoft goes the way of the PS3, the platform will fail. If it has a "dev switch" or other hacker/homebrew friendly feature... it -might- work out | 12:41 |
| RobbieThe1st | Personally, I won't buy it either way; I won't buy a phone without a *nix terminal with root | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 12:42 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Heck, if my -router- has that, my phone cirtainly ought to | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be right technically, but seriously who cares? for sure not Mr DevelopersDevelopersDevelopersDevelopers | 12:42 |
| johnx | I have this feeling that we're not a target demographic that almost anyone cares about | 12:42 |
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| RobbieThe1st | johnx: Sure, probably. Someone will make something to cater to us, though. | 12:44 |
| RobbieThe1st | I mean, look at the OpenMoko people. | 12:44 |
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| johnx | And Nokia with the N900, and before that there was the Sharp Zaurus (not a phone admittedly) | 12:45 |
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| Kowalczyk | sid: what did you meant? or it will work? | 12:46 |
| Trewas | apparently palm is making some linux devices, though they don't sell them (here at least) | 12:46 |
| johnx | linux with a very nice closed source UI, and not running the normal linux-y userland stuff. This is an issue for some people, and not for others | 12:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: OM happened because a guy had a vision, and the ability to raise a moderate amount of cash. It was a failure. | 12:49 |
| johnx | The Sharp Zaurus as well was something of a failure in the US and EU, though it had some success in Japan | 12:50 |
| RobbieThe1st | Eh, failure? The site's still up | 12:50 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, ping | 12:53 |
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| jonwil | OM as an idea wasnt a failure | 13:02 |
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| jonwil | OM as a piece of hardware was a failure | 13:02 |
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| jonwil | and thats because OM was too small to be able to get access to the hardware it needed to be anything like competitive | 13:03 |
| jonwil | e.g. a decent cellular modem | 13:03 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: No. | 13:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | jonwil: OM as a company was a failure. | 13:03 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: The neo1973 was a saleable product - with some minor tweaks. | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It had a software stack which made calls, and could access the internet, did SMS, though needed polishing in may 2007. | 13:04 |
| sjk | OM = OpenMoko? | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It was quite possible to get it saleable for Xmas 2007. | 13:04 |
| jacekowski | well, hardware was still a failure | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | But managment decided they wanted it shiny, and switched windowing systems several times. | 13:05 |
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| jacekowski | and afaik power management is still not existing | 13:05 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia's switch summoned abill_uk back | 13:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Power managment was not an insupportable problem. The battery life wasn't great - 12h or so when I was using it - there were easy wins at that time that were not done. | 13:06 |
| jonwil | I still think the cellular modem that they used in the FreeRunner was no good | 13:06 |
| jonwil | plus the thing looked so damn ugly IMO | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Hardware was not compelling by todays standards. In xmas 2007, a GTK/X open stack, with a saleable phone would have been a much less niche product than the first run of the neo1973 was. | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying that OM failed not because of the hardware, but because of the managment - not get out fast enough with good enough hardware, but delay 18 months wanting 'perfect' hardware | 13:07 |
| jacekowski | jonwil: that modem is used in lots of other phones | 13:08 |
| SpeedEvil | And software. | 13:08 |
| SpeedEvil | The modem is good - it's just 2G. | 13:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | (and incidentally, the modem can now be rooted, allowing for all sorts of fun stuff.) | 13:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Like using arbitrary numbers of software SIMs. (one at a time) | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | (you need a OS base-station to help you extract the keys) | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | (And the above hasn't actually been coded by anyone) | 13:10 |
| jacekowski | i'm just wondering if you can make one off for less than 1k | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 13:11 |
| jacekowski | ignoring all developemtn costs | 13:11 |
| jacekowski | just manufacturing | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | If you don't count the skilled time of anyone, and don't overly care about size, and get it right second time - maybe just. | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | This however assumes that you can stuff a mobile phone PCB by hand. | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | This is quite challenging. | 13:13 |
| * slonopotamus fails to understand why nokia didn't simply roll out more maemo5 devices | 13:14 | |
| jonwil | The OLPC guys had big problems finding an ARM SOC for their ARM-based device too IIRC | 13:14 |
| SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: See above OM reasoning. | 13:14 |
| SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: They want it shiny, and they want it perfect. | 13:15 |
| rzr | slonopotamus: nokia looks frozen to me | 13:15 |
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| Trewas | slonopotamus: why would they, after announcing the move to meego there was no point making more dead devices | 13:16 |
| slonopotamus | SpeedEvil: maemo5 is good enough to make several more devices on it | 13:16 |
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| slonopotamus | s/ on / with / | 13:16 |
| apt | slonopotamus meant: SpeedEvil: maemo5 is good enough to make several more devices with it | 13:16 |
| SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: I don't disagree. | 13:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: I personally would strongly consider buying a new compelling maemo 5 device tomorrow. | 13:16 |
| SpeedEvil | With some caveats. | 13:17 |
| mavhc | because they kept changing direction instead of going forwards | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | mavhc: OM or Nokia? | 13:17 |
| slonopotamus | both | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I find it a bit amusing that OM and maemo/meego both died after trying to go to Qt. | 13:18 |
| slonopotamus | and i don't understand what is so terribly bad with maemo5 that it was thrown away in favor of meego. | 13:18 |
| jonwil | It wasnt that maemo5 was bad, it was that they signed on with Intel | 13:18 |
| SpeedEvil | To be fair - from the POV of managment - the arguments probably looked good. | 13:18 |
| SpeedEvil | A broad based platform is a huge asset when taking on apple/android. | 13:19 |
| BCMM | who else is in on meego now? is there a risk its direction could move away from ARM? | 13:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Rather than a single sourced nokia only one. | 13:19 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: whole platform was gtk | 13:19 |
| rzr | jonwil: woont the partnership a start to support atom on nokia (for windows) , meego was just for proof of concept | 13:19 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: ? | 13:19 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: ? | 13:19 |
| alterego | heh | 13:19 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: well, whole platform was gtk and changing toolkit is a major thing | 13:19 |
| jonwil | All I care about is being abke to get the features I want on my N900 | 13:19 |
| jonwil | like cell broadcast | 13:20 |
| slonopotamus | jacekowski: one needs a strong reason to change gui toolkit | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | This makes a lot of sense - it's just that managment diddn't put the resources into meego / diddn't realise how far it was from production. | 13:20 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, since I'm back on the mediaplayer, I'm wondering, should I open a new QMainWindow in a different class or in a method? | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: OM you mean? | 13:20 |
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| jacekowski | nah | 13:20 |
| jacekowski | maemo | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Sorry - confusing similar fail. :/ | 13:20 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: not sure what you mean, | 13:20 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I mean, should I start a new class for each QMainWindow, or can I open two QMainWindows from the same class, just wondering which is better code practice | 13:22 |
| alterego | Hrm, well, if it's a different kind of window, I'd do a new class. | 13:22 |
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| slonopotamus | apt: i liked your previous nickname more. | 13:36 |
| apt | You liked your previous nickname more.? | 13:36 |
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| jonwil | As long as there are community members willing to work on improving their devices (and a community SSU as a way of getting the fixes out there for users to use, Maemo will never truely die | 13:37 |
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| jonwil | And if the community cares enough about it, meego-on-n900 wont die either | 13:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | I note that even SHR on OM is improving - somewhat. | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 has a much, much larger installed base. | 13:38 |
| MaikB | I think that there is room for small companies to make us as niche users happy | 13:39 |
| alterego | i was reading a review of the N8 and the guy seemed to think the N900 was much better. | 13:39 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: MohammadAG agress too | 13:40 |
| alterego | Yeah | 13:41 |
| Noma | Aava should start mass producting their phones with qwerty keyboards | 13:41 |
| alterego | No they shouldn't | 13:42 |
| alterego | No one wants an intel handset right now. | 13:42 |
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| MohammadAG | only the N8's camera makes me want it | 13:43 |
| MohammadAG | (I've barely used HDMI out or OTG tbh, and OTG fails on Symbian) | 13:43 |
| chadi | megapixels don't make a good camera | 13:43 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: You need to - for a n900 class phone - do a run of at least 10-20K before you can think of making any profit. | 13:43 |
| chadi | i'm looking forward to having optical zoom :-P | 13:43 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: Maybe a little less, but not much less. | 13:44 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: And that means several million dollars investment. | 13:44 |
| RST38h | Well. Moo. How is suffering today? | 13:44 |
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| MohammadAG | chadi, the lens is good | 13:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: New direction for nokia was announced, it's not W7. It's DNF on Hurd. | 13:45 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, anyway, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=943829&postcount=7 | 13:45 |
| chadi | MohammadAG: how well does it take night shots? | 13:45 |
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| MohammadAG | chadi, too well, it has a xenon flash too | 13:45 |
| MohammadAG | though it fails for night video I guess (no dual LED) | 13:45 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, yeah, I know. But I'm willing to pay 800€ for a normaly 500€ piece of hardware if I get something like maemo | 13:45 |
| MaikB | I think there is a market | 13:45 |
| MaikB | its small, yes, but its there | 13:46 |
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| chadi | MohammadAG: great, hope we have one on a meego device then :-) | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: But are >5000 other people? And can you convince a venture capitalist of that? | 13:46 |
| MaikB | it takes a small but commited and high skilled dude in a room | 13:46 |
| RST38h | Speed: You mean "HUrd" as in "former HP CEO"? | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: No, it doesn't. | 13:46 |
| MohammadAG | chadi, I'd like dual LED and Xenon tbh | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: A phone isn't really something one person can design. | 13:46 |
| chadi | what's the difference? | 13:47 |
| mavhc | gtk, no, qt. tablet, no, phone, no tablet, arm, no, intel. just make up your mind and stick with it | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: At least - if they try - it will be very slow. | 13:47 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, maybe its just wishful thinking | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: It can be done - look at OpenMoko. But it has problems. Look at OpenMoko. | 13:47 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, but I hope for a modified android phone with some additional drivesrs and non android tax | 13:47 |
| MaikB | is that reasonable? | 13:47 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, OpenMoko wanted to be pure | 13:47 |
| mavhc | why no android? | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: Perhaps - if you can convince a vendor to sell you one. | 13:47 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, indeed | 13:48 |
| MaikB | I just hope it will happen | 13:48 |
| MaikB | once my N900 died | 13:48 |
| mavhc | one day we'll have 3d printers to make our own phones | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | We can always hope that the meego phone will be good. | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | mavhc: We really won't. | 13:48 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, I agree that openmoko didnt work out well enough to be an opttion | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | mavhc: The case is the easy part. | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | mavhc: You're not putting a silicon fab on a desktop any time soon. | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | (well, other than toy demo fabs) | 13:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Fabs cost well over a billion dollars each, and don't fit on your average desk. | 13:49 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, maybe it takes another 10 years until its possible to do community hardware | 13:49 |
| MaikB | at least | 13:49 |
| MaikB | the problem is that, as you said, it takes shitloads of money to do hardware | 13:50 |
| MaikB | as opposed to software | 13:50 |
| mavhc | one day as in 10-20 years | 13:50 |
| mavhc | just buy in the silicon | 13:51 |
| MaikB | I'm hopeful though that hackers all over the world do want to run their favorite OS on their phone | 13:51 |
| mavhc | eventually everything becomes a commodity part | 13:51 |
| MaikB | and maybe another crazy rich person comes around and creates a ubuntu equivalent | 13:51 |
| MaikB | :P | 13:51 |
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| chadi | MohammadAG: I just googled the difference, and yeah indeed the xenon flash looks far better! But why do you want both? | 13:52 |
| MaikB | I'm happy I bought the N900 | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: Hardware can be easy. | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: OMs problem was not really the hardware, it was the software. | 13:52 |
| MaikB | and actually I hope that a fairly good meego phone with a good kernel and drivers to start building on | 13:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | We can always hope that the meego phone released will be good. | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Giving us at least an extension of the deadline. | 13:53 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil, well, Nokia just wasn't commited enough to make maemo/meego work | 13:53 |
| MaikB | Thats my opinion | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Their strategy up to shortly after the n900 was launched was not unreasonable. | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Then it seemred to tail off. | 13:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | I suspect talks with intel were happening, which lead to a slackning of 'wasted' effort. | 13:55 |
| MaikB | i.e. to make start apps they would have needed to review the elf binary loader for performance bottlencks etc. | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 13:55 |
| MaikB | Optimizations to make loading binaries into the memory faster | 13:56 |
| MaikB | linux is fast at many places because there were billions spend to make it fast | 13:57 |
| MaikB | I just doubt that nokia was commited to make it happen in the mobile space | 13:57 |
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| MaikB | they hoped it just works good enough | 13:57 |
| MaikB | That's an assumption ofc | 13:58 |
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| NeOGeO | ciao a tutti | 14:00 |
| NeOGeO | hi to all | 14:00 |
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| MohammadAG | chadi, cause you can't use a xenon flash as a flashlight | 14:03 |
| * jonwil wonders where this came from http://pastie.org/pastes/1150052 | 14:03 | |
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| chadi | MohammadAG: yeah, i noticed, xenon is a real "flash", dual led is used as a flash | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: I don't personally see slow app load time as a huge issue - it's a minor polish thing. | 14:04 |
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| merlin__phone | is git in extras? | 14:23 |
| merlin__phone | hm nope | 14:24 |
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| merlin__phone | wich one is the proper git package in devel againä | 14:26 |
| merlin__phone | s/ä/? | 14:26 |
| alterego | Is git in -devel? | 14:28 |
| alterego | I thought it was in tools ... | 14:28 |
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| merlin__phone | alterego, yes it is | 14:30 |
| merlin__phone | there is git | 14:30 |
| merlin__phone | and git-core | 14:30 |
| merlin__phone | while git is an older version of git with a different maintainer | 14:31 |
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| alterego | meh, think I used juse 'git' | 14:32 |
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| alterego | which pulled in 'git-core' | 14:32 |
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| merlin__phone | well http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/git/1.6.5.7-3/ vs http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/git-core/1.6.6-1maemo1/ | 14:35 |
| merlin__phone | and I see no depends git-core in the git package | 14:35 |
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| skrullis | can someone do a ls -ln /home/user and tell me the numeric user and group id please? | 14:37 |
| skrullis | ooh, on a nokia n900. | 14:38 |
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| iMohammadAG | God this iPhone client is retarded | 14:42 |
| merlin__phone | lol | 14:43 |
| mikki-kun | iMohammadAG: missing irssi? how about installing ssh on it and then ssh into your pc and rebind the screen session? | 14:44 |
| iMohammadAG | Just using meego on the n900 and I'm away from my pc | 14:44 |
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| mikki-kun | dyndns ;) | 14:45 |
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| mikki-kun | allows you to ping one computer of your choice in the world and connect to it | 14:45 |
| mikki-kun | just some small settings needed :) | 14:45 |
| iMohammadAG | I have a static ip | 14:45 |
| iMohammadAG | And I ahouldn't have said that | 14:46 |
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| merlin__phone | hrhr, portscan incoming ;) | 14:46 |
| iMohammadAG | 22 23 29 1337 enjoy | 14:47 |
| merlin__phone | 1337? wtf? | 14:47 |
| iMohammadAG | Router xD | 14:48 |
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| RST38h | Ah, MohammadAG has switched to the iPhone! | 14:48 |
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| mikki-kun | iMohammadAG: never say if you have a static you have a static one :> | 14:49 |
| mikki-kun | merlin__phone: why just portscans? | 14:49 |
| mikki-kun | XD | 14:49 |
| iMohammadAG | Crap xD | 14:49 |
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| merlin__phone | brute forcing ssh is mean mikki-kun ;) | 14:50 |
| iMohammadAG | Actually I just changed my root passwords | 14:51 |
| iMohammadAG | They were root xD | 14:52 |
| merlin__phone | ohnoes, I just had it | 14:52 |
| iMohammadAG | Hmm, iPhone autocorrect is annoying | 14:53 |
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| iMohammadAG | Noobs | 14:53 |
| iMohammadAG | Grr it isn't autocorrected to boobs | 14:54 |
| merlin__phone | it doesn't react to ctcp version, gay | 14:54 |
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| LjL-N810 | Eek; huge fonts | 14:55 |
| iMohammadAG | Heh | 14:55 |
| iMohammadAG | It's a cheap ass client | 14:56 |
| * jonwil just needs to find someone who has an "in" at nokia to try and push for the release of the stuff he needs for his projects :) | 14:56 | |
| iMohammadAG | I searched for irc and found a free version | 14:56 |
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| LjL-N810 | Is it feasible to use msn or whatever protocol from the os2008 chat app using gateways? | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.enlightenment.user/14360 raster about meego, Qt, Nokia, EFL, Samsung (*NOT* bada!) | 15:02 |
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| alterego | strange having a phone that has more capacity than a computer I was using t years ago. | 15:03 |
| alterego | 5 years ago .. | 15:03 |
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| mikki-kun | alterego: you mean the n900? | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: that's what tricks most devels. It has more CPU grunt, but for sure not more power (sic!). While your computer rsp laptop 5 years ago was designed to run for maybe 5h (if it's been a good one), this powerful little device needs to *run* for days and possibly weeks without recharging. This implies quite a number of fundamental considerations regarding kernel, general user space process (aka app et al) design, hardware drivers, and | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatnot else. While Nokia understood about that when designing maemo, it's quite obvious that >>90% of developers @ meego never wrapped their head around it and just don't care | 15:12 |
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| I-C-Wiener | I don't get it, if it takes Nokia another year for shipping the first WP7 device why not just ship it with MeeGo or Maemo5? | 15:16 |
| I-C-Wiener | imho, they it quite a good job with the N900 | 15:17 |
| I-C-Wiener | the only problem most people have with the N900 are the physical dimensions | 15:17 |
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| Juozapas | and lag | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, I got no problems with dimensions, I have problems with e.g. placement of 3G antenna, which is so brainfscked it constantly tears down 3G connection when I start holding the device for typing into hw kbd | 15:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lag? what lag? | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Lag between maemo devices. :) | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah :-) | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I tend to consider this a good thing usually | 15:24 |
| mikki-kun | gives the developers time to optimise every device to max | 15:24 |
| Juozapas | it really lagy when open few conversations, ssh connection to box and web site par example | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | too frequent product innovation cycles leave no room for any state of product to mature and stabilize | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: exactly | 15:25 |
| mikki-kun | Juozapas: hm, which website? | 15:25 |
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| Juozapas | doesnt matter | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | it *does* matter | 15:25 |
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| Juozapas | it just takes some time to switch from conversation window to web or terminal | 15:26 |
| mikki-kun | i usually can multitask pretty decently, maybe cause i run most of my apps on my server via ssh | 15:26 |
| mikki-kun | Juozapas: you mean for you or the device? | 15:26 |
| Juozapas | for device :D | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsckng interweb nowadays is optimized for 2GB 2GHz machines with 2048*1280 and fibre optics network | 15:26 |
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| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: fibre optics? then don't forget mentioning SSD and SATA 3 | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Juozapas: so that's clearly a problem of your web page using too much RAM, which makes the device get into swap hell | 15:27 |
| mikki-kun | and 2GB/2GHz?! you kidding me?! 1080p flash will surely kill that device... 3.5Ghz at least with 8 Gigs of RAM | 15:28 |
| ruskie | don't forget hw accelerating it | 15:28 |
| ruskie | with a dedicated chip | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ergo: website *does* matter. It just is unlikely to find a sane website nowadays that isn't bloated with flash shit cruft and js BS | 15:28 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: might have been easily avoided by 512 MB ram :) but nokia didn't see the need for it as nobody will multitask... | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: nonsense. There was no OMAP PoP with 512 available at time of design | 15:29 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: about:blank :) | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 15:30 |
| mikki-kun | PoP? | 15:30 |
| mikki-kun | Prince of Persia?! | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Package-on-Package | 15:30 |
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| mikki-kun | the 256 is with the cpu in a single package? | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Doc: It is useless to argue with lemmings | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | the OneNAND layer on top of the SOC | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Doc: They will continue advise Nokia on hardware/software decisions, no matter what | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: ack | 15:31 |
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| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: is there maybe a blueprint on how the omap is layed out? | 15:31 |
| mikki-kun | so far i assumed the 256 was on a seperate chip | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | google for spruf98f.pdf | 15:32 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: will do :) | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply visit ti.com | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | mikki-kun: What do you mean layed out? | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: PoP | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for example, aiui | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. I saw mention of 512M RAM on omap-n900 | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | but it was in a question on ti forums about undocumented POP vias | 15:33 |
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| jacekowski | mikki-kun: it is separate chip | 15:34 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: on top of omap | 15:34 |
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| LjL | what VLC release, if any, would you recommend for my N810? one that worked with youtube would be lovely :P | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: you as well can pick yur schematics, check for location of D4800 (CPU) and D5000 (combo mem) and find they are both square O7 | 15:35 |
| mikki-kun | so theoretically switching the this 256 ram-chip to a 512 might have been possible then? | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | which means D5000 sits piggyback on D4800 | 15:35 |
| * RST38h suddenly notices that mikki-kun is already on his /ignore list | 15:35 | |
| RST38h | Figures. | 15:36 |
| mikki-kun | wow... someone must have missed his yoga-class this morning... you can't expect from everybody to know everything... | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | mikki-kun: theoretically, yes. | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: theoretically | 15:37 |
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| MohammadAG | how do I override host verification? | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | (ssh) | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Edit your ~/.ssh/known_hosts | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, override, not edit | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root t900 | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, I don't want to edit it every time I switch to MeeGo | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG | ty | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yw | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG | assword authentication is disabled to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks. | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG | Keyboard-interactive authentication is disabled to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks. | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG | o_O | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Copy Maemo keys to meego | 15:38 |
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| MohammadAG | nevermind :) | 15:39 |
| LjL | would starting a page on how to get an N810 in good shape for 2011 use (including non-standard packages from non-standard repositories and ugly things like that) be welcome on wiki.maemo.org? | 15:40 |
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| dos1 | http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/01/26/finnish-newspaper-reports-that-american-investors-forced-nokia-to-hire-stephen-elop-nokias-new-ceo-is-the-first-non-finn-in-the-companys-history-but-new-report-claims-that-nokias-hand-was-for/ | 15:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LjL: extremely welcome | 15:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | investors, takeover scenarios, M$ evil plans (like always), - - MEH | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | (no sarcasm!) | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ILLUMINATI (now that's been sarcastic) | 15:46 |
| mikki-kun | i can't see any sarcasm in your last statement... | 15:47 |
| mikki-kun | it seems like the bitter truth :( | 15:47 |
| federico2 | your sarcasm detector is broken mikki-kun | 15:47 |
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| mikki-kun | it is having holidays... weekend started some hours ago | 15:48 |
| RST38h | Doc: There is an interesting detail about Elop | 15:50 |
| dos1 | Microkia is just next step to get The New World Order! :D | 15:50 |
| RST38h | Doc: Apparently, Elop has done a lot fo the open source ecosystem | 15:50 |
| RST38h | Doc: He was let go from Microsoft after heading the MS Office division and completely fucking up MS Office franchise | 15:50 |
| RST38h | With...hmmmhm...RIBBONS :) | 15:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHA | 15:51 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, (or anyone): if I push multiple packages to autobuilder without waiting for it to finish, as long as sequentially done, the dependencies will resolve correctly I gather? | 15:52 |
| lcuk | ie, new library first, then app that depends on it | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I heard somebody ranting about Elop being 7th biggest stakeholder of M$ (or sth like that) | 15:52 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Most likely answer is no, sorry | 15:52 |
| RST38h | Doc:Should be easy to check | 15:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | while he doesn't own any share of Nokia, nor is loyal to Nokia in any other confirmable way | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | LjL: That sounds like an excellent project to coordinate via wiki.maemo.org | 15:53 |
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| RST38h | Steven Anthony Ballmer has been selling MS stock like crazy yesterday | 15:53 |
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| RST38h | Wait, I am wrong, missed the correct line | 15:54 |
| chx | RST38h: url? | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: consider parallel processes | 15:54 |
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| RST38h | William H Gates has sold $416mil in MS stock form Feb 2 to Feb 4 | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Make your own conclusions :) | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | who *bought* NOK yesterday? | 15:55 |
| RST38h | Doc: Does not look like Elop holds that much, unless Yahoo Finance misses some information (it well may) | 15:56 |
| RST38h | For Nokia: No insider transactions in the 1 year period. | 15:58 |
| Trewas | finnish media reported those details today (elop being 7th largest personal owner of ms stock and owning no nokia stock), no idea if that is accurate info | 15:58 |
| dos1 | RST38h: 7th biggest *private* (is that correct wording in english? individual? ;]) shareholder | 15:58 |
| RST38h | Trewas: Yahoo only reports on 5 biggest shareholders | 15:58 |
| RST38h | Trewas: Elop is not among them | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd not feel surprised to learn Elop *still* gets his monthly check from Balmer | 16:00 |
| RST38h | http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=MSFT+Major+Holders | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you quite probably couldn't even prosecute him anywhere in EU, as he's Canadian and won't come here once he left direction US or Canada | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Looks like Gates has just sold 40%+ of his Microsoft stock | 16:02 |
| Trewas | the nokia-ms merger should be good news for microsoft, no risk and quite a lot of potential benefits to windows mobile | 16:02 |
| RST38h | $416m sold, $580m reported 3 days after the sale | 16:02 |
| RST38h | MSFT is still down yesterday, but of cause less so than NOK | 16:03 |
| federico2 | http://biz.yahoo.com/t/38/567.html | 16:04 |
| RST38h | yes, it is the same data I amlooking at | 16:04 |
| GAN900 | It is far too nice out for this Saturday. | 16:05 |
| * RST38h looks out: -11oC, snow flurries, the light is mostly off | 16:06 | |
| RST38h | Well...mmm...dunno... | 16:07 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, oh, sorry, you live in hell. | 16:07 |
| RST38h | Nah, just a temporary interruption in weather service. | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice : http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NOK&t=5d&l=on&z=l&q=l&c= | 16:08 |
| RST38h | The Tentacled One is repairing the sky. | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 16:09 |
| RST38h | Doc: looks like a trajectory of a wounded hog | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 16:09 |
| RST38h | Still, it does not make sense to analyse it now. Wait for at least a month or so... | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait til monday evening | 16:10 |
| RST38h | that too should be fun | 16:11 |
| GAN900 | What a bunch of idiots. | 16:11 |
| noodles900 | makes sense if you want to make money ;) | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | who? | 16:11 |
| RST38h | Which bunch? | 16:11 |
| GAN900 | Nothing good is going to come for Nokia from this. | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, yup | 16:11 |
| GAN900 | What sort of fools are on that board | 16:11 |
| noodles900 | GAN900: they will survive - which was not certain | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | same sort that's found on every board | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | (council excluded :-D ) | 16:12 |
| RST38h | the real question is in what shape they will survive | 16:12 |
| GAN900 | that they could both get themselves in a situation which required answers like this and CONSIDER this idiocy. | 16:12 |
| RST38h | or, if you are an investor, where will their stockstabilize | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | they will survive building mice for M$, and rubber boots for the world | 16:13 |
| GAN900 | Probably going to end up as Microsoft's manufacturing arm. | 16:13 |
| RST38h | One possibility, yes | 16:13 |
| noodles900 | MS know diddly-squat about hardware and Nokia have lost their way but can make excellent hardware. | 16:13 |
| RST38h | Or pillaged for patents by MS | 16:13 |
| RST38h | noodles: Have you seen the latest hw fromnokia? | 16:13 |
| noodles900 | apple will be worried | 16:13 |
| RST38h | noodles: Have you talked to a guy in the service center? I have. | 16:14 |
| maybeHere | microsoft does know about hardware :/ | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 16:14 |
| maybeHere | that microsoft sidewinder force feedback 2 here is the best thing microsoft did, ever | 16:14 |
| RST38h | True, the scarce hardware MS made,they made mostly right | 16:14 |
| noodles900 | RST38h: most receng is n900 but i know a guy in nokia | 16:14 |
| * maybeHere cuddles | 16:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | the hardware "made by M$" usually just isn't | 16:15 |
| RST38h | noodles: The latest Symbian phones die all over the place | 16:15 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Does not matter. They designed theirmice and keyboards. Yes, Zune was a relabelled Toshiba GIgabit, but not the rest | 16:15 |
| noodles900 | RST38h: yea - I heard but seems to be software related | 16:15 |
| RST38h | noodles: does not matter, it is still atrip to the factory | 16:16 |
| RST38h | also, damaged LCDs and broken RFmodules are not sw related | 16:16 |
| noodles900 | so I stand by what I said ;) | 16:16 |
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| noodles900 | my personal experience of nokia is since the mobile phones first came on the market | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | please keep in mind Nokia also is a major player in carrier grade hardware (BTS etc), and holds quite a patent portfolio as well. I wonder if M$ gets their sticky fingers at that as well | 16:18 |
| noodles900 | maybe 20 years ;) | 16:18 |
| kerio | :( | 16:18 |
| kerio | stupid ceo | 16:18 |
| chx | DocScrutinizer: Nokia might made a questionable decision yesterday but they are not suicidal :) | 16:18 |
| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: for sure MS are drooling :) | 16:18 |
| RST38h | chx: They are not? Really? | 16:19 |
| alterego | MS do love patents .. | 16:19 |
| noodles900 | what was the spat between nokia and Apple about? | 16:19 |
| maybeHere | DocScrutinizer: did'nt they put all that stuff into their joint venture with siemens? | 16:19 |
| maybeHere | didn't, even | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe yep | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't know enough about details to really comment on it | 16:20 |
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| noodles900 | it's a no-brainer to see wherethis is heading | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 16:20 |
| noodles900 | just hard to know which stock they will let die ;) | 16:21 |
| alterego | I hope they release a top notch device later this year for us .. | 16:21 |
| GAN900 | The whole situation fills one with an impotent rage. | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | investors (US investors!) forcing Elop into CEO position. Elop selling out Nokia to M$. Baler smiles | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ballmer | 16:21 |
| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: not sure how many legal hoopthey'd have to jump through | 16:22 |
| alterego | GAN900: this image is what made me sick: http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image21.png | 16:22 |
| GAN900 | alterego, that'll probably change to "actually, we're axing the whole division, we just didn't want to start riots in February" | 16:22 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:22 |
| alterego | Well, we'll know about it soon enough. | 16:22 |
| GAN900 | What the hell device am I going to use in 6 months. . . . | 16:23 |
| noodles900 | either way maemo amd meego will be cut adrift | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | noodles900: that's why they not plainly buy out Nokia wholesale. They do it in a way so nobody can piss their leg | 16:23 |
| GAN900 | One has an overwhelming desire to punch their smug faces. | 16:23 |
| maybeHere | oh well, my n900 is still alive and kicking. who knows how it'll all look at the time it finally dies on me | 16:23 |
| Jartza | one finnish politician said that "Elop is not Canadian, he is Trojan" | 16:24 |
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| noodles900 | DocScrutinizer: exactly ;) They might be dumb, but they aren't crazy ;) | 16:24 |
| alterego | Well, I have two N900s now, so I'm set for a while. | 16:24 |
| psycho_oreos | I'd save the energy and get something like a lemon bazooka to shoot at them with.. frozen lemon of course | 16:24 |
| alterego | And I love the device so much, I'd be happy to use it for another year or so. | 16:24 |
| psycho_oreos | no point punching their faces with yer arm when you can save it all up with something like a fruit launcher | 16:24 |
| Jartza | haha | 16:25 |
| Jartza | Google is offering work for ex.Nokians who will get laid out | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybeHere: yep. same here. And Samsung & Raster is a great promising team it seems | 16:25 |
| chx | yes that was nice. | 16:25 |
| noodles900 | alterego: the hardware of tthe n900 is great apart from the usb socket, but the os closed bits are pants | 16:25 |
| Jartza | Aidan Biggins on twitter: Any Nokia software engineers need a job? We're hiring. | 16:25 |
| alterego | noodles900: my usb is fine. | 16:26 |
| alterego | And how is the software pants? | 16:26 |
| noodles900 | cool :) good for google - they will pick up some useful heads | 16:26 |
| alterego | Hahah | 16:27 |
| noodles900 | alterego: the basic phone functions are better on mynokia 6310 | 16:27 |
| alterego | Which functions in particular? Or are you talking about the lack of caller groups? | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jartza: (he's Trojan) which, afair, is incorrect. Nokia acts like Trojans. Elop is the horse :-P | 16:27 |
| noodles900 | that is one - but the list is long ;) | 16:28 |
| chx | i do have a serious problem with the N900: it's quite brick sized :( I still love my E51 better for a form factor. | 16:28 |
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| alterego | Phone functions are fine as far as I'm concerned tbh | 16:28 |
| alterego | The size doesn't bother me either. | 16:28 |
| Jartza | DocScrutinizer: well yeah. some analogy-failure there :) | 16:28 |
| alterego | For what it does and its' flexibility I'm happy with the size .. | 16:29 |
| noodles900 | alterego: I carry the 6310 to make calls ;) | 16:29 |
| alterego | Obviously, it'd be nicer if all these things were better/different, but it doesn't stop me from using it .. | 16:29 |
| GAN900 | Google is Evil | 16:29 |
| alterego | noodles900: why? | 16:29 |
| alterego | GAN900: So is Nokia now :P | 16:29 |
| noodles900 | alterego: don't misundrstand - I do love the n900 | 16:30 |
| GAN900 | alterego, they're not an advertising company. | 16:30 |
| GAN900 | Just a Borg drone. | 16:30 |
| GAN900 | And drones are neither evil nor good. | 16:30 |
| GAN900 | They're just drones. | 16:30 |
| Jartza | “Nokia expects 2011 and 2012 to be transition years” – that's OK because as you know, the smart phone market is evolving very slowly lately. | 16:30 |
| alterego | Oh, you must have missed the "Adverts" part of the Nokia/Microsoft partner presentation slide. | 16:30 |
| Jartza | heh... some more puns in google's twitter | 16:30 |
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| noodles900 | alterego: too manyreasons to type on the n900 kbd ;) | 16:30 |
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| alterego | Yeah, I read that and laughed. By the time they've got WP devices out and "transition" is well under way. MeeGo will be mature, stable and awesome .. | 16:31 |
| noodles900 | but will meego be totally opensource? | 16:32 |
| alterego | People like, the guys that Nokia got from Palm, including that ace UX designer, their jobs are redundant now that Nokia are leaving all that BS to MS | 16:32 |
| noodles900 | and will it run the n900? | 16:32 |
| alterego | noodles900: MeeGo is totally open source. | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, see my last rant about meego. IMHO it just never will be mature on handset UX | 16:32 |
| GAN900 | Need to sue Nokia for emotional and financial damage. | 16:32 |
| alterego | There are some closed components available to enable some hardware functionality, just like any other Linux system | 16:32 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, yeah, I don't really get the full steam ahead comments | 16:33 |
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| noodles900 | alterego: cool - including drivers? | 16:33 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: not with that attitude :P | 16:33 |
| alterego | noodles900: no. | 16:33 |
| GAN900 | Funny thing is, they're all coming for people who make money from MeeGo | 16:33 |
| GAN900 | So they're not exactly unbiased. | 16:33 |
| GAN900 | Market realities will set in when boards realize there's no point wasting time. | 16:33 |
| DrGrov | Everybody still sticking to their initial feelings of yesterday? | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: well, *my* attitude just is negligable. It's because ""their"" attitude is like it is, and doesn't bother about mine | 16:34 |
| GAN900 | And waving the LF flag is just as silly. | 16:34 |
| GAN900 | alterego, let's be realistic. | 16:34 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: we need a viable open mobile linux platform for handsets. | 16:34 |
| GAN900 | This is the mobile market | 16:34 |
| alterego | MeeGo is the best out there imo | 16:34 |
| GAN900 | we don't have generic hardware we can dump software on. | 16:34 |
| alterego | At least it has the best backing and best momentum. | 16:35 |
| jaska | but it should be generic hw | 16:35 |
| RST38h | We do | 16:35 |
| RST38h | GAN900: You have got pretty generic HTC hardware | 16:35 |
| GAN900 | So without corporate backing from somebody making hardware, there's little point. | 16:35 |
| alterego | GAN900: well, we kind of do with the N900 :P | 16:35 |
| GAN900 | It'll never hit critical mass, there will never be enough developers, no ecosystem | 16:35 |
| RST38h | GAN900: In fact,as there is just a bunch of mobile SoCs, the generic hardware part has been mostly solved | 16:35 |
| alterego | Nokia will continue to make MeeGo devices, I imagine just like we have had in the past through the NIT devices. (I hope) | 16:35 |
| GAN900 | alterego, which is already 2 years out of date. | 16:35 |
| DrGrov | So I assume everybody is still pissed off? | 16:35 |
| alterego | And that is what they're saying .. | 16:35 |
| alterego | GAN900: all of Nokia devices are 2 years out of date. | 16:36 |
| alterego | If not more. | 16:36 |
| alterego | This is their problem. _they're freaking slow_ | 16:36 |
| lcuk | bah! | 16:36 |
| chx | http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/12/nokia-new-strategic-direction-what-is-the-future-for-qt/ smells like optimisim | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | alterego, slow is relative. | 16:36 |
| alterego | (I don't mean megahertz, I mean Nokia as far as producing products is concerned) | 16:36 |
| alterego | lcuk: sure :P | 16:36 |
| alterego | I want a Cortex A15 now please :P | 16:37 |
| alterego | NOW! | 16:37 |
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| * DrGrov hands alterego his precious Cortex A15 | 16:37 | |
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| lcuk | alterego, perhaps you could consider using a toolkit which actually makes the most out of what is available :P | 16:37 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, so, what, we're going to hack the bootloader on every new Android device that comes out? | 16:38 |
| alterego | lcuk: I'm not whining about hardware specs, GAN is :P | 16:38 |
| lcuk | GAN900, when android is also OSS, doesn't it seem odd to have to hack it? | 16:39 |
| GAN900 | alterego, and when they all die because they're disposable mobile devices. | 16:39 |
| GAN900 | You still haven't solved the ecosystem issue. | 16:39 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, Android may be open source, but it aint Open Source. | 16:39 |
| lcuk | GAN900, ecosystem can thrive in MeeGo | 16:40 |
| GAN900 | The open source is just to con otherwise intelligent people into expanding the Google empire. | 16:40 |
| ZogG | where WPN907 is out? | 16:40 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, not without devices | 16:40 |
| GAN900 | Not without customers. | 16:40 |
| lcuk | GAN900, it has devices | 16:40 |
| lcuk | just like Maemo :) | 16:40 |
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| lcuk | my MeeGo ideapad is amazing | 16:40 |
| lcuk | it is the wall based big machine | 16:41 |
| RST38h | GAN: Yes! | 16:41 |
| lcuk | but I can carry it everywhere | 16:41 |
| lcuk | :) | 16:41 |
| DrGrov | Will there be any MeeGo devices from Intel then? | 16:41 |
| RST38h | Your meego ideapad is a cheap chinese-made netbook, with underpowered cpu and cheesy design | 16:41 |
| lcuk | RST38h, by who's terms is it underpowered? | 16:42 |
| RST38h | Sorry, lcuk, someone had to violate that perfect world :) | 16:42 |
| RST38h | lcuk: By mine. | 16:42 |
| lcuk | I have been running happily on a 400mhz N810 for the last 4-5 years now | 16:42 |
| lcuk | you need to reevaluate then. | 16:42 |
| RST38h | But N810 is a pocketable tablet | 16:42 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, big sky optimism doesn't pay anybody's bills. | 16:42 |
| RST38h | The ideapad is pretty much a laptop | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I saw a chinese 'thinkpad' the other day. | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: with a trackpoint. | 16:43 |
| RST38h | And I have got a just a bit larger laptop with 1.2GHz Core i7 here | 16:43 |
| lcuk | RST38h, yes, and running it with max 1600mhz is a dream | 16:43 |
| lcuk | code runs flawlessly at 60fps | 16:43 |
| RST38h | what code? | 16:43 |
| lcuk | and gives a broad smile when its used | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Man, I know a lot of chemical substances that gove you a broad smile when used | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Some will even fix that smile permanently, on your corpse | 16:44 |
| lcuk | RST38h, so we should just accept that Open Source fails? | 16:44 |
| RST38h | A brick from Lenovo will not though | 16:45 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: What open source? | 16:45 |
| lcuk | well, according to yesterday, ALL. | 16:46 |
| lcuk | RST38h, and if all we are given is bricks, then we shall build the highest tower. | 16:47 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I do not know what you mean by ALL | 16:50 |
| RST38h | lcuk: As far as I can tell, "yesterday" indicates that 1)Meego at Nokia is most likely dead 2) Meego in general is most likely not dead 3) None of this has anything to do with open source in general or your Lenovo netbook | 16:50 |
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| ZogG | BCMM_, hey | 17:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://getsatisfaction.com/nokia/topics/petition_to_nokia_reconsider_meego_as_strategic_platform | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | just in case somebody cares | 17:05 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I wonder what people would put on a postcard | 17:05 |
| lcuk | to Mr Elop | 17:06 |
| jaska | ebola | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | shit? | 17:06 |
| mikki-kun | lcuk: anthrax? | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ebola, yeah | 17:06 |
| lcuk | mikki-kun, sigh | 17:06 |
| lcuk | I meant a digital postcard actually | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | digital ebola then | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 17:06 |
| DrGrov | How about a killer virus? | 17:07 |
| mikki-kun | hm, that is just a counter going up... real postcards stack up and eventually will annoy you way more | 17:07 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: g'day | 17:07 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Do you still feel the anger? | 17:08 |
| chx | we have zero clout alas | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I'm mostly thru with it | 17:08 |
| demute_ | I recently formatted the eMMC card and the whole phone (n900), converted partition table etc. however, I have created the dirs /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/Ringtones and /home/user/MyDocs/.images (-rw-r--r--, user, users), put some aac-ringtones and some png in corresponding folders. I can't find any ringtones nor images through standard programs! what could be wrong? | 17:08 |
| LjL | yay, MyTube works! \o/ | 17:08 |
| * lcuk once sent a postcard to Nokia with better hope http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_025549.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png | 17:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer | just lingering here out of mere boredom | 17:08 |
| chx | we would need to make Keilalahdentie another Tahrir to make them listen :P | 17:08 |
| lcuk | my handwriting has gotten better since :) | 17:08 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: You are absolutely adorable | 17:09 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: Can I have you as a home pet? My soon-to-be-wife would take good care of you | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | demute_: virtually everything | 17:09 |
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| lcuk | you can happily have the software created :) | 17:09 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: No, I want you! | 17:10 |
| lcuk | read liqbook, I am up for sale :) | 17:10 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: My soon-to-be-wife insists that she gets a hold of you and takes good care of you in the form of a house pet | 17:10 |
| DrGrov | Like a dog | 17:10 |
| lcuk | but hopefully in a way that helps everyone | 17:10 |
| lcuk | bah DrGrov | 17:10 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: What now? | 17:10 |
| lcuk | I am a cat | 17:10 |
| lcuk | :) | 17:11 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: Ok, my wifey can handle cats as well. | 17:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 17:11 |
| demute_ | DocScrutinizer: please confirm that and I will reformat it :) | 17:11 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: She has had 10 cats at once | 17:11 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Do you seriously believe that petition will achieve anything? | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | demute_: check trackerd | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: nah! | 17:12 |
| demute_ | DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks | 17:12 |
| RST38h | Doc: Won't a sacrifice of a goat or a calf to the Tentacled One have more effect? | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: for sure, I appreciate that ;-D | 17:13 |
| LjL | can you come up with things that a user in 2011 would want from their N8x0 (that are attainable), for me to research and add to the wiki page i'm making? | 17:14 |
| lcuk | DrGrov, do you have pics of your wife? | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: we could place some new wikileaks stuff on Elop's laptop, then inform homeland security about it | 17:15 |
| RST38h | Doc: He is Canadian. | 17:15 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: wow, that is an awesome idea Ö.ö | 17:15 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: Why would you need pics of my wife? | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet he's using a win7 based laptop, probably open as this arse | 17:15 |
| RST38h | Doc: And if you really wanna head that particular route, insider trading is probably the best topic to develop | 17:15 |
| lcuk | DrGrov, I would like to know who is touching me :P | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you need considerable amounts of spare money to set up that scenario | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, my first move with Finnish nespaper was rather cheap ;-P | 17:17 |
| ZogG | BCMM_ i got funtoo on laptop =) | 17:17 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: fun! | 17:17 |
| ZogG | BCMM_ yeah fun too :P | 17:18 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: Yes of course, then I understand | 17:18 |
| ZogG | BCMM_ do you have qt-creator and maemo sdk on gentoo? | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: (Canadian) so what? don't you think they send a sniper for a Canadian as well as for an Aussie | 17:18 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: maemo SDK being scratchbox, right? | 17:18 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: I will put a link for you in a few sec | 17:19 |
| lcuk | haha ok | 17:19 |
| lcuk | :D | 17:19 |
| ZogG | i assume | 17:19 |
| ZogG | there si something in portage | 17:19 |
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| ZogG | but it states for maemo3 so i do not sure how old is it | 17:19 |
| lcuk | DrGrov, do I add this to the groupies list? | 17:19 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: i have scratchbox working, but i can't remember how right now | 17:19 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: it does use some of the stuff from portage, but it took some tweaking | 17:19 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: FUCK NO! | 17:20 |
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| lcuk | lol | 17:20 |
| ZogG | BCMM_ just when i use qt-creator (used) on arch i had no way to emulate app as it would run on maemo | 17:20 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: You just watch one sec and that is that | 17:20 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: i like doing stuff properly, and it also means that i have appropriate init scripts and so on | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | next step of operation: Nokia is developing evil secret sw technology that's aimed to attack M$ systems of US gvmt | 17:20 |
| lcuk | ok, but once its on the internet, theres no going back. | 17:20 |
| ZogG | BCMM_ it would be nice if you would share any instructions or ebuilds if you have =) | 17:21 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: Read the fucking PM! | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | the Elop plot was just for Nokia to gain access to M$ internals to optimize their weapon chamber | 17:21 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: yeah, i've been meaning to write it up for ages | 17:21 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: so long, in fact, that i've started to forget :( | 17:21 |
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| ZogG | BCMM_ DO IT =( | 17:21 |
| ZogG | =)* | 17:21 |
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| BCMM_ | ZogG: IIRC, i basically followed the instructions for installing on debian, but used equivalent stuff from portage | 17:22 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/337028/ is my eix -cI scratch output | 17:22 |
| DrGrov | lcuk: You bastard, I know you pasted that link already everywhere. Right? | 17:23 |
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| BCMM_ | gah, where's the regular scratchbox installation instructions? | 17:23 |
| lcuk | DrGrov, no, I have merely admired your wife for a few seconds. time for you to go and smile at her for longer. | 17:24 |
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| DrGrov | lcuk: Oh, kind words. | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | DrGrov: lcuk: please stop it, it's puzzling | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, it was DrGrov's idea | 17:25 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: What, it is puzzling? | 17:25 |
| lcuk | he was the one that mentioned his wife | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't point fingers, I just ask to stop it before another ban hits for no reason | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | (not by me!) | 17:26 |
| RST38h | Doc: Good chances are, he took care about setting it up himself =) | 17:26 |
| DrGrov | Seriously | 17:26 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Just need to dig :) | 17:26 |
| DrGrov | Can not people take any fucking jokes anymore? | 17:26 |
| RST38h | No. | 17:26 |
| RST38h | Never could, too. | 17:26 |
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| DrGrov | RST38h: Well, I knew that somehow when talking about you. Not a coincidence but nevermind | 17:26 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: follow this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#On_x86_and_x86_64_Debian-based_systems but ignore the apt-get stuff and emerge these http://paste.pocoo.org/show/337028/ instead | 17:27 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: oh, and i don't think you need to create the scratchbox group either - portage will do that for you | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | DrGrov: jokes sometimes are problematic with 460 users, 70% of them no native speakers | 17:27 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Oh I understand. Just a nice way to cheer up a bit. | 17:28 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: sbox group rather | 17:28 |
| BCMM_ | emerge that stuff, then see if it exists | 17:28 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: my memory is a little vague, so can you let me know if that works so I can write it up properly? | 17:29 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Thought it might be a nice humor turn to the terrible news from yesterday. But sure, will not make any more funny jokes. | 17:29 |
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| ZogG | BCMM_, thanks | 17:30 |
| ZogG | it would take sometime as i forgot usb network card at work for laptop and the builtin is broken as wifi =( | 17:31 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: oh and note that you do not need dev-embedded/scratchbox-devkit-maemo3 - i'm guessing that's a way to avoid manually getting a rootstrap, that's out of date now anyway | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, see what I mean? s/puzzling/bemusing/ | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's no 20h into the past when one user deliberately admitted his irony detector is broken | 17:33 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: oh, one more thing: you can get Xephyr by building x11-base/xorg-server with +kdrive, i think | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, enjoy your weekend folks. I'm off for some RL | 17:34 |
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| GAN900 | Amazing | 17:37 |
| GAN900 | The MeeGo list archives are giving me blank pages every other message and Modest only wants to show the last dozen. | 17:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer heads off to next backbone excange station, with laptop and a pack of cables | 17:38 | |
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| DrGrov | Thanks DocScrutinizer, enjoy the weekend yourself :) | 17:38 |
| chx | GAN900: it has begun | 17:38 |
| RST38h | TEH END. TEH DRAMA. | 17:39 |
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| * ShadowJK was sitting with his laptop plugged into a switch at the central exchange for the new fibre isp :) | 17:43 | |
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| ShadowJK | first time I've seen youtube 1080p download faster than realtime :( | 17:44 |
| DrGrov | ShadowJK: What connection are you on? | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: can you please inject a few data packets into IBAN stream for me? | 17:45 |
| DrGrov | For me the Youtube 1080p always downloads faster than realtime | 17:45 |
| ZogG | BCMM_, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33073&page=2 | 17:46 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer but internet is your RL | 17:47 |
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| * MohammadAG hates rpm | 17:47 | |
| MohammadAG | can't figure out how to install a package using zypper :/ | 17:47 |
| ZogG | zypper --help? | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: you know the religion of aboriginees? | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | we're all living in dreamtime | 17:47 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG as i set gmail i have both pop and imap - how do i get rid of one of them? | 17:48 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, duh, that's not the problem :P | 17:48 |
| MohammadAG | it keeps saying the package doesn't exist | 17:48 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer you see you are still here | 17:48 |
| GAN900 | YouTubes low quality stuff isn't even real time here. | 17:48 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG update/sync? | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: nah, somebody is dreaming you're thinking I'm still here. This never really happened | 17:49 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG, ??? | 17:49 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, eh, iban? | 17:49 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, I did | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ meegotouchcp-bluetooth-libmeegobluetooth exists | 17:50 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG i have inbox and i have allmail and google mail =) | 17:50 |
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| MohammadAG | I added http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/repos/armv7l/packages/ to /etc/zypp/repos.d/ | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sorry, SWIFT | 17:51 |
| ShadowJK | eh | 17:51 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG as well why would all mail displayed and not X per page? | 17:51 |
| ShadowJK | I only have access through the internet port, not management ports :) | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not following, you lost me | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, thanks anyway | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: see? now I'm gone | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | besides, anything injercted wouldn't go very far :P | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on your keyring ;-) | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | you wouldn't believe what can be done with a server farm/cloud like amazon's, when you got millions of IV | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 17:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 17:56 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, optimistic about getting the project leadership to discuss that in the open? ;) | 18:02 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Pfft, no ;-) | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | lost me | 18:05 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, maybe you can put it on the TSG agenda? *g* | 18:06 |
| RST38h | put what on the agenda? a funeral? =) | 18:07 |
| ruskie | nokias? | 18:08 |
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| MohammadAG | ffs | 18:10 |
| piggz | mood in here improved any since yesterday? | 18:11 |
| MohammadAG | I have a patch for meego but can't test it cause I can't compile :/ | 18:11 |
| MohammadAG | Scratchbox > MADDE, why doesn't MeeGo's SDK use it :/ | 18:11 |
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| MohammadAG | and of course, #meego's dead for help, as usual | 18:15 |
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| RST38h | Because that was a rhetorical question | 18:19 |
| RST38h | They got Moblin from Intel, with all the Moblin tools. Scratchbox is dead. | 18:20 |
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| RST38h | And to develop for Moblin, you either have to use their remote build environment, or install Moblin inside a virtual machine and use it there | 18:20 |
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| MohammadAG | RST38h, then wtf is http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux for? | 18:24 |
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| RST38h | It does not load | 18:25 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: this is for qt app developers, not for you | 18:26 |
| BCMM_ | ZogG: heh, looks a lot like the solution i came up with... | 18:27 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, did meego finally adopt rpm, or is it still dpkg? | 18:27 |
| BCMM_ | shoulda googled harder | 18:28 |
| BCMM_ | (me, i mean) | 18:29 |
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| cos^ | Arkenoi: afaik harmattan is still deb, but meego is rpm | 18:31 |
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| Arkenoi | cos^: but scheduled "meego" prototype is still basically harmattan, isn't it? | 18:33 |
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| cos^ | i cannot say that | 18:34 |
| mavhc | why would anyone adopt rpm? | 18:34 |
| cos^ | i don't know if even anyone in nokia knows for sure | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, meh | 18:34 |
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| Arkenoi | n9-00 was meant to be dpkg/harmattan based, despite being named meego? | 18:35 |
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| cos^ | it is meego except for packaging | 18:36 |
| Arkenoi | what is the difference from harmattan? | 18:36 |
| cos^ | afaik harmattan uses dpkg because of its roots in maemo | 18:37 |
| cos^ | i don't know the exact reasoning but probably it would have been too risky to switch packaging in middle of project | 18:38 |
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| piggz | anyone using cmake as a build system? do you have a working debian/rules file?? seems no files are included in my packge | 18:41 |
| rzr | uses cbbs | 18:42 |
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| * piggz google cbbs | 18:45 | |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Harmattan is debian/dpkg based | 18:46 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Meego proper is fedora/rpm/zypper based | 18:46 |
| piggz | rzr: you mean cdbs? | 18:46 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, which one was the scheduled OS for n9-00 prototype? | 18:47 |
| Arkenoi | (the one cancelled by MS asshole) | 18:47 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: http://demotivators.ru/posters/79118/pesets.htm | 18:47 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Harmattan. Apparently, it is also scheduled for N9-01 | 18:48 |
| Arkenoi | So dpkg/Harmattan again, just named Meego for marketing reasons? | 18:48 |
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| ShadowJK | N9-00 was probably omap3 with 256 or 512m ram, so it probably was cancelled as obsolete :) | 18:49 |
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| ShadowJK | Arkenoi, yes | 18:49 |
| Arkenoi | ShadowJK, 512M is just ok | 18:49 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: I guess the can just rename it back to Maemo6 for all practical purposes :) | 18:50 |
| piggz | /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/cmake.mk seems to be missing?? | 18:50 |
| rzr | piggz: yes | 18:50 |
| Arkenoi | as i stated before, i'd happily buy n900i with 512Mb and everything else similar to old n900 | 18:50 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: http://demotivators.ru/posters/233038/gladit.htm | 18:50 |
| RST38h | Which pretty much sums it up | 18:51 |
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| ShadowJK | Arkenoi, yeah me too :P | 18:52 |
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| Arkenoi | actually i'd even prefer 3.5" resistive to 4" capacitive | 18:57 |
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| * RST38h yawns and asks who is going to choose which Android phone | 19:03 | |
| ruskie | none | 19:03 |
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| chx | RST38h: once again, what's wrong with WebOS? I have asked this once or twice -- Android has custom libc so it's not easy to run anything but WebOS seems to be standard Linux. What did I miss? | 19:04 |
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| piggz | comparing my n900 to my wifes android, i will stick with the n900....afaict, no other phone out there has such good integration with eg, im/voip accounts | 19:04 |
| RST38h | chx: WebOS appears to be nice, but only two phones will be released (one too small),and it is not clear how popular it becomes | 19:05 |
| RST38h | chx: You should ask javispedro about details, heknows more | 19:06 |
| chx | RST38h: and that matters to us because we are using one of the most popular phones already arent we. | 19:06 |
| BCMM_ | WebOS is "not a proper linux"m like android, right? | 19:06 |
| ruskie | well hp donated a server to webos-internals community... | 19:06 |
| MohammadAG | it's more proper than Android afaik | 19:06 |
| ruskie | BCMM_, android isn't proper linux | 19:06 |
| BCMM_ | ruskie: that's what i meant | 19:06 |
| BCMM_ | but my punctuation got lost | 19:06 |
| ruskie | webos from what I figured out is proper linux but doesn't use X(I'm assuming it uses framebuffer only) | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | it's close to maemo, if you don't consider the UI | 19:07 |
| BCMM_ | oh, ok | 19:07 |
| RST38h | chx: I have no idea what mattersto you | 19:07 |
| BCMM_ | does Qt embedded work on said framebuffer? | 19:07 |
| chx | RST38h: running Debian on a phone :) ? | 19:07 |
| RST38h | Never asked, too | 19:07 |
| RST38h | Ok, fine | 19:08 |
| BCMM_ | (in any case, no X is a serious handycap imho) | 19:08 |
| ruskie | BCMM_, that's what is actually used | 19:08 |
| ruskie | BCMM_, and sdl for native code stuff | 19:08 |
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| ruskie | BCMM_, on no X isn't a serious handycap... | 19:12 |
| chx | it must be fairly normal as http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian Debian Chroot is a breeze. | 19:12 |
| ruskie | erm... and no X even... | 19:12 |
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| MohammadAG | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/12/samsung-galaxy-s-2-and-10-1-inch-honeycomb-tablet-leaked-on-kore/ | 19:20 |
| MohammadAG | slapping meego on those specs would be quite interesting | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | So tired of Android | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | and now we're doomed to it. | 19:21 |
| ShadowJK | I hope rasterman's samsung project arrives in a smartphone product :) | 19:21 |
| ShadowJK | and hope atleast samsung wont become an oem :/ | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not interested in Android | 19:22 |
| ruskie | ShadowJK, what project? | 19:22 |
| RST38h | Yep | 19:22 |
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| RST38h | But switching to a Samsung (!) OSS (!!) project actually sounds like a really bad joke =) | 19:22 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 19:23 |
| ShadowJK | I bought a samsung netbook, it came with some software that has GPL offer | 19:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | My last netbook had SuSe on it. | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | (from lenovo) | 19:24 |
| ruskie | still only have a eeepc 701 | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I sold it, as it diddn't work for me. | 19:24 |
| ruskie | my next one will be a touchbook v2 | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ruskie: see jmy link of +F8h ago | 19:25 |
| ruskie | erm??? jmy? F8h ??? | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | +-8h | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ca 5..9 | 19:26 |
| ruskie | 14:02: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.enlightenment.user/14360 ? | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 140230 <DocScrutinizer> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.window-managers.enlightenment.user/14360 raster about meego, Qt, Nokia, EFL, Samsung (*NOT* bada!) | 19:27 |
| nox- | moin | 19:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | moin | 19:29 |
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| nox- | moin DocScrutinizer51 | 19:29 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, hmmm yeah that would definately be interesting | 19:31 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, but the thing that worries me about EFL and stuff is... BSD... anyone selling such devices will most likely lock down anything they can... | 19:33 |
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| Loveable_rouge | yo yo peeps hows it going | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ruskie: that's a moot argument | 19:34 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, also looking at their platform overview... maemo still looks more open... | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err platform overview??? | 19:36 |
| ruskie | the first link that he points to in that message(a PDF) | 19:36 |
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| ruskie | http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry haven't noticed | 19:37 |
| ruskie | page 4 of that | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | won't open lengthy pdf right here either | 19:37 |
| ruskie | has a similar overview that maemo has on the wiki someplace | 19:37 |
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| ruskie | with open source vs samsung proprietary | 19:38 |
| ruskie | power mgr, player, sound, cam, radio, email, messaging, telephony, media browser, contacts, event system, alarm service, certificate manager, web runtime, ui gadgets, drm, location all samsung proprietary | 19:39 |
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| ruskie | interesting... mix of EFL and GTK... | 19:41 |
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| ruskie | and according to that slideshow samsung is due to release a SLP phone in 2011 | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, sounds like real mess | 19:44 |
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| piggz | doh! debin/rules has to be executable :/ | 19:44 |
| ruskie | aka samsung linux platform | 19:44 |
| RST38h | SLP looks really really nice | 19:44 |
| unixSnob | samsung is one of the only companies forward thinking enough to realize that people need dual-sim phones | 19:45 |
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| ruskie | unixSnob, they do??? | 19:45 |
| unixSnob | sure | 19:45 |
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| piggz | unixSnob: loads of cheap chinese copies come with dualsim...even look like n900 | 19:45 |
| * ruskie hasn't in all the time since using cell phone needed a dualsim device | 19:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there's dual sim and true dual | 19:45 |
| unixSnob | this quarter there will be a dual-sim, dual-standby android phone | 19:46 |
| ShadowJK | I've seen tripple-sim phones | 19:46 |
| unixSnob | will kick nokias ass even harder | 19:46 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, nothing there to kick... | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fsck those who need a restart to switch, and only have mutually exclusive service | 19:46 |
| unixSnob | while nokia has already had an ass woopin | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dual-standby, nice precise term | 19:47 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, ping | 19:48 |
| ruskie | I'll have to keep an eye out about that samsung slp device... | 19:48 |
| unixSnob | the average dumb consumer still carries two cellphones around.. not realizing dual-sim is out there already | 19:48 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, erm... dualsim was out there ages ago... | 19:49 |
| jacekowski | who has need for dual sim anyways | 19:49 |
| ruskie | I remember a friend 10 years ago @school who had a dual sim device | 19:49 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: my point exactly | 19:49 |
| ruskie | simply people don't need dualsim | 19:49 |
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| unixSnob | jacekowski: anyone who wants a work life that's separate from their personal life.. or who crosses borders | 19:50 |
| unixSnob | or who wants a cheap data plan | 19:50 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, separate work and personal separate cell phones is best | 19:50 |
| jacekowski | well, here i have cheap data plan in my sim | 19:50 |
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| jacekowski | and my work number i just forwarded to my own number | 19:50 |
| ruskie | as for cheap data plans... get a decent carrier... | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik_: JP: Gentlemen Take Polaroids | 19:50 |
| jacekowski | because i have 700 minutes included anyways | 19:50 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: some don't mind personal calls on the job... it's job calls on personal time that need to go | 19:51 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, again... separate devices work great there | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ruskie: dual-sim is useless | 19:51 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, I'm not arguing for it | 19:51 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: a decent data carrier is not the same carrier as a decent voice carrier | 19:51 |
| unixSnob | and decent voice carriers tend to screw you on the data plan | 19:51 |
| ruskie | you leave the work device @work when you leave the office... unless agreed in contract differently | 19:51 |
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| ruskie | unixSnob, then you basically have crappy carriers | 19:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ruskie: dual-standby is what we need | 19:52 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: only if you have one carrier | 19:52 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: if you want the best of both, you have 2 carriers | 19:52 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, why would I want different carriers??? | 19:52 |
| ruskie | I have best of both with a single carrier here | 19:52 |
| unixSnob | to get the best of both kinds of users | 19:52 |
| unixSnob | uses* | 19:52 |
| ruskie | data and voice are the same for me here | 19:53 |
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| ruskie | if a cearrier can't do both well... I'll dump them... | 19:53 |
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| unixSnob | ruskie: sure, there's always the obscure case where the best data carrier happens to be the best voice carrier for one persons habit | 19:53 |
| ruskie | not reward two different carriers for their half arsed crappy service | 19:53 |
| unixSnob | but that's just random chance | 19:53 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: not in civilised part of the world | 19:54 |
| unixSnob | and i guarantee if you leave the country, your current carrier will screw you | 19:54 |
| unixSnob | it will be $1/min | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ruskie: I know LOTS of people running with 2 phones on them, private and business | 19:54 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer51, well I know a few from work | 19:55 |
| ruskie | and I used to have that as well | 19:55 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: not really | 19:55 |
| ruskie | and I will carry a business phone if the employer wants it(they aren't getting my personal number) | 19:55 |
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| jacekowski | unixSnob: it costs me £0.23/minute | 19:55 |
| ruskie | and so far nobody demanded that I have a work phone... | 19:55 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: civilized is irrelevent.. it's about competition, and the market | 19:55 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: that's a lousy rate | 19:55 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, well I guess that assumes you actually want to be reachable personally outside the country... | 19:55 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: in belgium, you could get less than 10 euro cents/min | 19:56 |
| unixSnob | (with the right carrier) | 19:56 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: that's in roaming | 19:56 |
| ruskie | if I go on vacation I don't really care about getting calls or smses... | 19:56 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: sure, which is why it's a lousy price | 19:56 |
| ruskie | if I go to a store(i.e. ikea across the border) somewhere out of country... don't really care about getting calls | 19:57 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: or you don't want to carry two phones around so you have your domestic phone when you land at the airport | 19:57 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, erm... or just swap out a sim? | 19:57 |
| unixSnob | or if you cross with a train, you want to be available for one area right up until you cross | 19:57 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: sure, if you're old fashioned | 19:58 |
| * ruskie notes he actually doesn't want to be available to people to CALL | 19:58 | |
| ruskie | if you want to reach me send me an email... | 19:58 |
| ruskie | that atleast I'll respond... | 19:58 |
| ruskie | my phone generally is set to quiet 24/7 | 19:58 |
| ruskie | and I maybe look at it once per week | 19:58 |
| unixSnob | why give up the versatility though? it's senseless | 19:58 |
| ruskie | because talking to people using dodgy cell signals isn't fun... | 19:59 |
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| unixSnob | the fact that you're getting lucky with having a the best data plan and best voice plan today is only temporary. it will change, and competition changes | 19:59 |
| unixSnob | /and/as | 19:59 |
| * ruskie has the best possible voice plan... | 19:59 | |
| ruskie | pay what you actually call... | 19:59 |
| ruskie | and since my calls tend to be 0/month... | 19:59 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: it's just that you live in some shithole where carriers don't care | 19:59 |
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| jacekowski | here i get 700 minutes for £25 with unlimited data | 20:00 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: what do you mean "care"? companies shouldn't "care", they aren't in the business of caring | 20:00 |
| nox- | id say all carriers really care about is making money, and rules are different per country | 20:00 |
| unixSnob | i live in a capitalistic region.. companies want to profit, not "care" | 20:01 |
| ruskie | they should care... | 20:01 |
| ruskie | else they don't really deserve to make profit | 20:01 |
| BCMM_ | pretending to care *should* get them custoemrs... | 20:01 |
| unixSnob | and when mobile phone companies profit, it means tricks and games | 20:01 |
| unixSnob | the US market is a great example of it | 20:01 |
| ruskie | I stop doing business with companis that don't care for my custom... | 20:01 |
| unixSnob | it's more profitable to trick customers than it is to "care" | 20:01 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: not in civilised part of the world | 20:02 |
| unixSnob | ruskie: the mobile phone industry has a satisfaction rating of 60% | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | where that just means lost cuustomer | 20:02 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: and the US isn't civilized? | 20:02 |
| ruskie | and I go to extra effort of explain to others why they should not do business with said customers... | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | no it'snot | 20:02 |
| ruskie | erm... said companies even | 20:02 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: then your use of the term is meaningless | 20:02 |
| ruskie | gah... | 20:02 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: just say waht you mean | 20:03 |
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| unixSnob | jacekowski: you don't lose a customer by treating them like crap, if all the competition does the same | 20:03 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, you do... | 20:03 |
| nox- | exactly :/ | 20:03 |
| Venemo_N900 | good afternoon | 20:03 |
| unixSnob | mobile customers choose a lesser of evils | 20:04 |
| ruskie | since a customer has an option of not doing business with any... | 20:04 |
| unixSnob | and they never end up with a company that "cares" | 20:04 |
| rzr | http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/01/26/finnish-newspaper-reports-that-american-investors-forced-nokia-to-hire-stephen-elop-nokias-new-ceo-is-the-first-non-finn-in-the-companys-history-but-new-report-claims-that-nokias-hand-was-for/ | 20:04 |
| ruskie | I can live just fine without a cell phone | 20:04 |
| unixSnob | if you think your provider cares, marketing has worked wonders on you | 20:04 |
| rzr | ruskie: i dont use one either only n810 when travelling | 20:04 |
| dos1 | ruskie: not too many of them decides to do what you do | 20:04 |
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| jacekowski | unixSnob: or it really cares | 20:04 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: it's small things | 20:04 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, I know mine cares | 20:04 |
| Venemo_N900 | LjL: hello | 20:04 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: like not outsourcing call center to india | 20:04 |
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| unixSnob | jacekowski: you're not living in a civilized part of the world, where companies are profit-driven | 20:05 |
| ruskie | and no not from marketing | 20:05 |
| ruskie | marketing has never worked on me | 20:05 |
| ruskie | from my interactions with them | 20:05 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: profit driven doesn't mean screwing customers | 20:05 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: depends on the market | 20:05 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: in the mobile phone market, it does | 20:05 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, different regiens different mentalities | 20:05 |
| jacekowski | here if company would try to screw me ower i would just terminate contract with them with no penalties | 20:06 |
| unixSnob | particularly europe.. it's lousy in europe | 20:06 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, really? | 20:06 |
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| ruskie | <-- is in the EU... but still hasn't gotten screwed over | 20:06 |
| unixSnob | in europe, you can get totally burned on roaming charges if you're on a border | 20:06 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: not really | 20:06 |
| ruskie | only if you're stupid enough to leave the phone in auto mode | 20:06 |
| unixSnob | and a cell on the other side connects | 20:06 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: of course you can | 20:06 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: roaming is really cheap | 20:06 |
| ruskie | my phone is always set ONLY to the home network... | 20:07 |
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| jacekowski | lowest rates start like at 5p/minute | 20:07 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: someone got a €800 bill one month for that | 20:07 |
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| ruskie | dos1, well until they actually start bothering about their rights... can't really help them... | 20:07 |
| unixSnob | roaming is capped by the EU, and it's still a lousy cap | 20:07 |
| jacekowski | well, if you go to uncivilised US then you will have to pay like £1/minute for roaming | 20:07 |
| jacekowski | most of carriers are even including roaming in standard included minute packet | 20:08 |
| unixSnob | the EU had to cap things, because european carriers were screwing people under uncontrolled market circumstances | 20:09 |
| unixSnob | the cap doesn't go far enough | 20:09 |
| jacekowski | rotfl | 20:09 |
| jacekowski | how much you pay for roaming? | 20:09 |
| unixSnob | the cap is like €1/meg | 20:09 |
| unixSnob | to roam | 20:09 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: if I took my plan outside the country, loading a few web pages would suck my allowance dry | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | exactly | 20:10 |
| unixSnob | no one in europe offers reasonable data roaming | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | here i even have roaming data included | 20:10 |
| nox- | yeah here in europe many ppl are still afraid of using mobile internet bc they fear three-figure or more bills... | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | bullshit | 20:10 |
| unixSnob | which is where dual sim comes in | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: vodafone | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: base.be | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | t-mobile | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | orange | 20:10 |
| unixSnob | base.be screws you | 20:10 |
| jacekowski | base offers FREE data roaming | 20:11 |
| unixSnob | €1/meg | 20:11 |
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| ruskie | 0,25 EUR/100kb here | 20:11 |
| jacekowski | vodafone offers 25MB for £1 | 20:11 |
| ruskie | or 0,18 EUR/100kb if I decide to go with a special eurodata thing | 20:11 |
| ruskie | or 15eur/15mb/month | 20:11 |
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| ruskie | or 10mb/5eur daily | 20:12 |
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| unixSnob | jacekowski: 25MB for £1 is terrible. In the US, you can get unlimited for $50 flat | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: link | 20:13 |
| unixSnob | millennium.com | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: and that's in roaming | 20:13 |
| ruskie | unixSnob, talking about roaming? | 20:13 |
| unixSnob | no, that wasn't roaming | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | exactly | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | here i can get unlimited for £10 | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | with 100 minutes | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | and 100 texts | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | 3-4x cheaper | 20:14 |
| unixSnob | 25MB for £1 is a great price for roaming *comparatively*, but obviously you're still getting bent over | 20:14 |
| ruskie | in my case 20gb/month - after that they limit rate to 64kbps for 18eur | 20:14 |
| ruskie | actually 128kbps | 20:15 |
| ruskie | 24eur | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: so, $50 is terrible | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: in eu you can get unlimited for £10 flat | 20:15 |
| ruskie | and that's an addon price to a normal phone plan | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | and i have my N900 on plan for £25 with phone free | 20:15 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: you mean in the uk. I belgium €10 won't get you more than 400mb | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: again, bullshit | 20:16 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: check base.be | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: on base i had 500M for 5 euro | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | unixSnob: last week | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | when i went to fosdem | 20:16 |
| unixSnob | base is the cheapest mainstream provider, second only to mobilviking -- who only does data | 20:16 |
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| unixSnob | jacekowski: 500M for 5 is an improvement, but nowhere near unlimited for £10 | 20:17 |
| unixSnob | so you've made my case | 20:17 |
| jacekowski | well, that means you could get ~4G for $50 | 20:17 |
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| jacekowski | have you tried downloading more thatn 4G on your $50 plan | 20:18 |
| jacekowski | because i remember when i had hmm, 7 years ago unlimited plan | 20:18 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: it's not cummulative like that. With base, when you run out of quota, it eats your credit at around €1/meg | 20:18 |
| unixSnob | so you have to take care to only top up €10 at a time | 20:18 |
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| jacekowski | yes | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | but you could only download 500M before being limited to submodem speeds | 20:19 |
| unixSnob | and then you have to wait up to a day or two for the next credit to become usable | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | no | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | i had to only wait like 60s | 20:19 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: chance | 20:19 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: I had to wait a day and half once | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | and when i went to US and bought US prepaid with $100 on it | 20:19 |
| unixSnob | and worse, I started using it half a day later.. when it didn't get validated, and got burned | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | i used up everything in hour | 20:20 |
| unixSnob | jacekowski: should have used millennicom | 20:20 |
| unixSnob | $50 unlimited | 20:20 |
| jacekowski | are they doing prepaids? | 20:20 |
| unixSnob | that's what it is.. no contract | 20:20 |
| jacekowski | well, that was almost 1,5 year ago | 20:20 |
| unixSnob | i was using millenicom in 2007 | 20:21 |
| LjL | Venemo_N900: hi there | 20:21 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 20:21 |
| jacekowski | i have stuff to do | 20:21 |
| LjL | Venemo_N900: i've started a page about making N810's more modern feeling. http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_the_N8x0 | 20:21 |
| Venemo_N900 | LjL: if you still have the N810, check out Puzzle Master. just ported it. | 20:21 |
| LjL | Venemo_N900: oh cool! | 20:22 |
| Venemo_N900 | LjL: it's in Extras-devel right now | 20:22 |
| jacekowski | i'm just wondering if it will ever happen when mobile phones will be like pcs | 20:23 |
| jacekowski | where you just install any os you want | 20:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | Venemo_N900: :) | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | LjL: :) rather | 20:26 |
| Venemo_N900 | SpeedEvil: thanks :) | 20:26 |
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| Venemo_N900 | SpeedEvil, LjL: although I missed one bug for the current release. | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 20:27 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: pong | 20:28 |
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| LjL | Venemo_N900: nice game. i have a small thing to suggest though, don't make two matching pieces stick *immediately*, or sometimes they'll stick even when you're just moving them around and not really realizing they match in the first place. | 20:32 |
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| Venemo_N900 | LjL: nice idea | 20:33 |
| unixSnob | when will the n800 be superceded? | 20:33 |
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| unixSnob | what's next? | 20:33 |
| RST38h | ponies!!! | 20:33 |
| Venemo_N900 | LjL: could you please post this to the TMO announce thread of puzzle master? | 20:33 |
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| Venemo_N900 | LjL: that way I wouldn't forget | 20:33 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, how do I delete all items in a QListWidget? | 20:39 |
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| LjL | there isn't an Extras-testing for OS2008? | 20:41 |
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| LjL | Venemo_N900: done | 20:43 |
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| Venemo_N900 | LjL: I'll take it to -testing when I think it's ready | 20:46 |
| alterego | foreach(QGraphicsItem *item, listwidget->items()) {listwidget->removeItem(item);} | 20:46 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: ^ | 20:46 |
| kerio | qt is a bad idea, i swear | 20:47 |
| kerio | believe me :< | 20:47 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, that deletes them? | 20:47 |
| LjL | Venemo_N900: no but i mean, is there a testing repository at all? i haven't found it, while i've found it for fremantle | 20:47 |
| Venemo_N900 | LjL: I think there is | 20:48 |
| MohammadAG | (also, doesn't a QListWidget hold QListWidgetItems?) | 20:48 |
| alterego | Then: delete item; | 20:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: yes it does | 20:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: QListWidget doesn't have QGrpahicsItems | 20:48 |
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| alterego | Oh, I'm looking at QGraphicsScene for some reason :D | 20:50 |
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| LjL | i'm just wondering where it is because http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/dists/ | 20:52 |
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| MohammadAG | can someone do a ls /home/user/.cache/media-art/ | wc -l? | 20:59 |
| pupnik_ | http://parislemon.com/post/3237400800/introducing-the-microsoft-puppet How to buy nokia for free | 20:59 |
| LjL | has anyone ever thought about enabling subpixel anti-aliasing for Maemo fonts? the screen is already high resolution, but it could always get better | 21:00 |
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| Venemo_N900 | LjL: subpixel rendering is made for low-res screens | 21:01 |
| timeless_xchat | venemo: subpixel rendering is useful on highres screens too | 21:02 |
| LjL | i don't see why it wouldn't work well on a hires screen... of course, there's less point to it, but it's not like i can't see the pixels on my N810 | 21:02 |
| timeless_xchat | sure at some point it won't be, but i think we are there yet | 21:03 |
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| MohammadAG | anyone? :P | 21:04 |
| LjL | i'd do it but i don̈́t think it'd be useful for you if i do it on my N810, would it? :P | 21:05 |
| derf | LjL: By the way, I was wrong. gnuite's route server for Maemo Mapper seems to be back up. | 21:06 |
| LjL | derf: ah, thanks for the info | 21:07 |
| * ShadowJK struggles trying to figure out how to create outgoing bluetooth DUN gprs connection on Windows7 | 21:08 | |
| ShadowJK | I need to find place to enter the AT+cgdcont... strong somewhere... | 21:08 |
| kerio | u dun goofd | 21:09 |
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| ShadowJK | Ah, found it hidden in device manager | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | but not working :/ | 21:12 |
| ShadowJK | oh, it is | 21:12 |
| timeless_xchat | shadowjk : is it supported? | 21:13 |
| ShadowJK | Excellent, internet on W7 laptop without any extra malware installs needed | 21:13 |
| ShadowJK | (through n900) | 21:13 |
| timeless_xchat | oh | 21:13 |
| timeless_xchat | that's easy to do | 21:13 |
| ShadowJK | over bluetooth :) | 21:13 |
| timeless_xchat | yeah | 21:13 |
| timeless_xchat | actually, the lazy approach is to use pcsuite or ovisuite | 21:14 |
| ShadowJK | I was just expecting to find the settings in one place, I guess | 21:14 |
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| timeless_xchat | while the connection is up, just rename it | 21:14 |
| timeless_xchat | then get rid of the suite :) | 21:14 |
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| timeless_xchat | the connection will survive :) | 21:14 |
| ShadowJK | I've been called to "fix" computers before when ovi/pcsuite has been eating RAM*2 on boot, so I'm not installing that | 21:15 |
| timeless_xchat | but you shouldn't need any at commands | 21:15 |
| * ShadowJK doesn't trust it to uninstall cleanly either.. | 21:15 | |
| timeless_xchat | just uninstall it after use | 21:15 |
| jacekowski | you should be just able to dial *99# | 21:15 |
| timeless_xchat | yeah, i didn't need at commands | 21:15 |
| jacekowski | without any initialization | 21:15 |
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| ShadowJK | Apparently I needed AT+CGDCONT=1,"ip","internet.saunalahti" | 21:15 |
| timeless_xchat | i had a lot more pain on osx | 21:16 |
| evilbulg1rian | hi, i installed multiboot-kernel-power and now i get multiboot screen but phone powers off after. any ideas on how i can fix? | 21:16 |
| ShadowJK | Probably using my Nokia E75 it'd work without the extra init, because E75 has setting on what ap to use when acting as modem | 21:16 |
| timeless_xchat | and you cannot configure multiple cellular providers for your phone | 21:16 |
| timeless_xchat | so when i added a UK or IE sim, i roasted my FI settings | 21:17 |
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| timeless_xchat | of note, ovi suite guessed the wrong network for my n900 w/ elisa | 21:17 |
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| timeless_xchat | that was depressing | 21:17 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah i had to enter AP as that AT command in Modem advanced settings, so it will use same setting always even if I create new connection for a different sim/provider :/ | 21:18 |
| timeless_xchat | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209198 | 21:18 |
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| timeless_xchat | w/ windows this is easier to handle | 21:18 |
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| ShadowJK | On N800/N810 it kinda worked, unless you had several phones in which case you have to switch phone in controlpanel - phone manually | 21:20 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer, what do you think about yesterday's news? | 21:23 |
| kerio | Venemo_N900: nokia is fucked | 21:23 |
| Venemo_N900 | kerio: 100% agreed | 21:23 |
| timeless_xchat | shadowjk : yeah, that wasn't too painful actually | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: M$ at its best | 21:24 |
| kerio | or, alternatively, nokia will drop a lot, they'll fire that moron and go back to symbian smartphones | 21:24 |
| kerio | with the usual mediocre software and great hardware | 21:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | hehe | 21:24 |
| maybeHere | they'll never go back to symbian | 21:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | anyway, I feel a bit sorry for them | 21:24 |
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| nox- | yeah its sad | 21:24 |
| pupnik | revolution! | 21:25 |
| maybeHere | i'm p. sure elop will do quite a bit of earth scorching regarding symbian | 21:25 |
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| Venemo_N900 | I'm also sorry for the fired Finnish people | 21:25 |
| Venemo_N900 | let's just hope there'll be someone who picks up MeeGo | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, meego hanset UX?? who? | 21:27 |
| timeless_xchat | i thought Ava already did that | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF Ava? | 21:27 |
| ShadowJK | Aava | 21:27 |
| * timeless_xchat shrugs | 21:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 21:27 |
| kerio | is the aava usable as a phone? | 21:29 |
| timeless_xchat | oh, right, it's finnish, it would be doubled | 21:29 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: not the handset ux. handset ux is horsesh*t | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.aavamobile.com/ uhuh | 21:29 |
| chx | why would the Australasian Association of Volunteer Administrators need Meego? | 21:30 |
| chx | :P | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | For technical specifications about the Aava Core, module and tablet/smartphone reference platforms, please contact us at info@aavamobile.com. | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | PFFFFF | 21:31 |
| Venemo_N900 | heh | 21:31 |
| Sc0rpius | "Nokia USA president is out, replaced by Microsoft vet Chris Weber as Elopocalypse continues" | 21:31 |
| Sc0rpius | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/12/nokia-usa-president-is-out-replaced-by-microsoft-vet-chris-webe/ | 21:31 |
| timeless_xchat | anyone here use the n900 facebook chat thing? | 21:32 |
| Jaffa | Sc0rpius: Ouch. | 21:32 |
| Sc0rpius | OMG they are turning Nokia into another Microsoft | 21:32 |
| kerio | i use jabber because i'm a nerd | 21:32 |
| Sc0rpius | I guess NOK must be like 25% down right now | 21:32 |
| Venemo_N900 | Sc0rpius: yes it is, actually | 21:32 |
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| yacc | Well, Nokia decided they are already screwed, so it's a nice legal way to Harakiri, I mean, how many successful Microsoft partners are there? And what's the ratio between these and partners that got screwed over? | 21:33 |
| kerio | 0 and 0 | 21:33 |
| chx | just wait with those two zeros | 21:33 |
| Venemo_N900 | :D | 21:34 |
| kerio | unsuccessful is 8 and ∞ | 21:34 |
| kerio | or something | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | FUCK! | 21:34 |
| chx | you know well that there ARE succesful MS partnerships just not many | 21:34 |
| chx | and it's also somewhat.. fashionable? to just hate MS for being MS | 21:34 |
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| Sc0rpius | what a way to be stupid. Microsoft Smartphones are less than 4% of the market share, why would ANYONE go for that? | 21:34 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: ? | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | now get out the marines to stop this public enemy Elop! | 21:34 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: :D | 21:34 |
| chx | but in case you have not realized, MS changed a lot lately and actually became friendlier with open source | 21:35 |
| chx | i am not saying this is a good move | 21:35 |
| chx | but i want somewhat be more objective | 21:35 |
| Venemo_N900 | chx: friendlier? not really. | 21:35 |
| Venemo_N900 | chx: they're just pretending | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | chx: STFU | 21:35 |
| piggz | no, only down 14.5% http://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=BIT:NOK1V | 21:35 |
| Sc0rpius | "only" | 21:35 |
| piggz | ;) | 21:35 |
| chx | http://www.microsoft.com/web/drupal so this is pretending? | 21:35 |
| yacc | Venemo_N900, it's only like 15% down between yesterday and today, ... | 21:36 |
| Venemo_N900 | chx: yes, it is | 21:36 |
| Sc0rpius | let's see how it reacts on monday with this announce of Nokia USA president... | 21:36 |
| Venemo_N900 | yacc: oh, sorry. | 21:36 |
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| piggz | yeah, monday will be interesting | 21:36 |
| chx | yeah Monday will be another 10-15% down | 21:37 |
| Sc0rpius | I bet | 21:37 |
| Jaffa | I knew it dropped - hadn't realised it continued to drop as the day went on. 13:30 - that'll be when US came online. And look at those volumes... | 21:37 |
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| villager | wonder how low ms waits for it to get before buying nokia | 21:39 |
| Jaffa | Why bother buying them? | 21:39 |
| Jaffa | They'll build the hardware you want and take on the capital expenditure risk, whilst paying *you* for an OS which you were developing anyway... | 21:40 |
| jaska | (and which nobody wanted) | 21:40 |
| timeless_xchat | microsoft's code hosting platform (codeplex) supports Mercurial (and sponsors it) | 21:40 |
| yacc | chx, well, they've choosen to become yet-another-hardware-provider with little to say about the software. Android would have allowed them at least to participate and to provide their own add-on value, ... | 21:41 |
| kerio | timeless_xchat: otoh, microsoft's "open source" licenses aren't really that open | 21:41 |
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| Venemo_N900 | timeless_xchat: since you are an insider, how do you feel about this stuff? | 21:41 |
| timeless_xchat | kerio: gpl is tainting | 21:41 |
| kerio | and that's why i use ISC | 21:41 |
| villager | Jaffa: well, I figured chances are that if they don't buy, nokia would go bankrupt and thus couldn't serve their purpose | 21:41 |
| timeless_xchat | no idea how bad the ms licenses are | 21:41 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, kind of less tainting then the typical commercial license, I'd say ;) | 21:41 |
| kerio | >get former executive CEO | 21:42 |
| kerio | >make share drop | 21:42 |
| kerio | >buy when the price is low | 21:42 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, for Phone 7, the range of allowed hardware is rather tiny, ... | 21:42 |
| timeless_xchat | venemo: i'm glad that ovi will die eventually | 21:42 |
| kerio | >PROFIT! | 21:42 |
| timeless_xchat | yacc: which? | 21:42 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, that's why all WinPhone7 phones look like clones, ... | 21:42 |
| kerio | (there's no "???" there) | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Howdy, timeless_xchat. | 21:42 |
| timeless_xchat | heya | 21:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | timeless_xchat: also, what'll happen to Qt? | 21:42 |
| timeless_xchat | venemo: i'm hoping for more management causualties | 21:43 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, basically, MS decided to go half-way between Android that has wide range of allowed hardware even for the Google-Marketplace, and Apple, which has a tendency to Singleton implementations, ... | 21:43 |
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| timeless_xchat | i only heard of one last night (?) | 21:43 |
| timeless_xchat | plus the one someone just mentioned | 21:43 |
| jaska | they will just rename it nokia ikkuna (ikkuna = window, ovi = door) | 21:43 |
| Venemo_N900 | mhm | 21:43 |
| jaska | :D | 21:43 |
| timeless_xchat | yacc : seems reasonable | 21:43 |
| timeless_xchat | jaska: shhh | 21:44 |
| timeless_xchat | don't give them any bad ideas | 21:44 |
| timeless_xchat | with our luck, they'll miss the smily and implement it | 21:44 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, with Phone7, they've specified hardware which is kind of 1-2 years old (because that's the time frame they've planned on), compared to current Apple/Android offerings, ... | 21:44 |
| timeless_xchat | anyway, symbian's been dead for years | 21:44 |
| kerio | you know, symbian isn't that bad | 21:45 |
| kerio | it's really not flexible, but it's not bad | 21:45 |
| kerio | i mean, it has copypaste | 21:45 |
| Venemo_N900 | timeless_xchat: I was hoping that the announcement will be symbian EOL, and not this horseshit. | 21:45 |
| timeless_xchat | venemo : yeah, me too | 21:45 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, well, Symbian makes a fine OS for "feature-phones" nowadays, and what Nokia is really missing, is the Market experience, I mean Ovi is a joke, ... | 21:45 |
| timeless_xchat | anyway, the good thing is that the ceo said there has to be responsibility and accountability | 21:46 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, there are J2ME download sites that are nicer than the Ovi store, ... | 21:46 |
| timeless_xchat | he also wants to put decision making at the right levels | 21:46 |
| timeless_xchat | all of these are laudable goals | 21:46 |
| timeless_xchat | no clue if they'll be implemented | 21:46 |
| kerio | the world needs less markets and more repositories | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | (<timeless_xchat> venemo: i'm hoping for more management causualties) just holler if we can help :-D | 21:48 |
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| yacc | kerio, well, I can live with the N900 quite well, but you know the bean counters want to be able to charge per "app", hence dpkg/apt won't do, ... | 21:48 |
| kerio | i'd say that nokia is in this situation because of the beancounters | 21:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer ramps up the MTHELs | 21:49 | |
| kerio | so i wouldn't necessarily trust them with these decisions | 21:49 |
| Venemo_N900 | ~nuke elop for being a moron | 21:49 |
| * apt prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at elop for being a moron ... B☢☢M! | 21:49 | |
| yacc | kerio, possible, as I said the amount that I've spent on the Google Market is not exactly huge, it's about perception, ... | 21:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer reprograms apt's terget tracker for "DevelopersDevelopersDevelopers" | 21:50 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | target* | 21:50 |
| yacc | But then, I guess somebody in Finland decided that they had to press that RED BUTTON labeled "DO NOT PRESS NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS" ;) | 21:50 |
| timeless_xchat | i'm sitting at an anual dinner, nokia contributed its standard 10kEUR | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | last slap-up meal | 21:51 |
| evilbulg1rian | hi, i installed multiboot-kernel-power and now i get multiboot screen but phone powers off after. any ideas on how i can fix? i tried ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R with no luck removing the multiboot menu | 21:51 |
| yacc | Btw, which donkey decided to use a non-standard connector for the N8? | 21:51 |
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| alterego | Non standard for what? | 21:52 |
| ShadowJK | I thought N8 was musb a or b, or ab? | 21:52 |
| timeless_xchat | it's a good meal w/ real kosher meat - a rarity in .fi | 21:52 |
| alterego | evilbulg1rian: probably watchdog | 21:52 |
| * yacc managed to buy a "Host USB" cable at the local Nokia shop, just to discover a couple of minutes later that it does not fit the MicroUSB slot of his N900, ... | 21:52 | |
| evilbulg1rian | alterego: never mind pushed B on the multiboot meny and it booted | 21:53 |
| timeless_xchat | yacc : i hope they let you return it | 21:53 |
| ShadowJK | yacc, of course it doesn't, n900 doesn't have usb host | 21:53 |
| evilbulg1rian | alterego: now il try to re-install mutiboot-kernel-pwer per wiki | 21:53 |
| yacc | ShadowJK, a very popular misconception, the connector is a rectangle form factor, ... | 21:53 |
| yacc | timeless_xchat, they let me return it immediatly, but the funny thing is two Nokia employees sold it to me when I showed them the N900 and asked for a MicroUSB host cable, ... | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, square port | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | same as the one on the N800 (or was it N810...) | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | the one that switches to OTG properly | 21:54 |
| ShadowJK | no | 21:54 |
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| yacc | ShadowJK, it does not have official host support, inofficial I've somehow heard it's somehow working, which is not the point, I've been hunting for that cable not for my N900, it's more useful for the Archos tablets, ... | 21:55 |
| ShadowJK | Well, N800 has MiniUSB, which is now deprecated in the usb standard | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG | oh, thought it was microUSB | 21:55 |
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| MohammadAG | anyways, the port is square, instead of the one on the N900 | 21:55 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: N810 has standard microusb | 21:56 |
| ShadowJK | N800 has MiniUSB, N810 has MicroUSB | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | qgil's online on tmo | 21:56 |
| ShadowJK | The N8 cable doesn't fit in n800 :) | 21:56 |
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| MohammadAG | the N8 OTG cable doesn't fit in the N900 | 21:56 |
| ShadowJK | that too | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | though the USB one does, it's a normal microUSB cable | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | I wouldn't use it though, it's too tough to take out | 21:57 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, I was just hunting for that cable, not necessarily for the N900, ... | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | I felt I was removing the port, not the cable | 21:57 |
| ShadowJK | The cables are designed so that OTG cable only fits in OTG devices, and the "pc <-> device" cable fits in both OTG and non-OTG devices | 21:57 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, seems like I'll have to order it, ... | 21:57 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG don't say you got n8 as well? | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, it's not mine, but yeah | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | I had it since November I think | 21:58 |
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| ZogG | stop feeding Nokia =) | 21:58 |
| yacc | ShadowJK, considering the form factor of the cable it's hard to believe, but then, who cares,... | 21:58 |
| ZogG | i bet half of shares of Nokia is MohammadAG's =) | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | I did | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | that's why I suggested an iPhone for my dad | 21:59 |
| jaska | this reminds me i need to check my n810 uptime | 21:59 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: did you sell everything? | 21:59 |
| kerio | TO MICROSOFT? | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | no | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | I sold Microsoft to Apple | 21:59 |
| kerio | how did that work out? | 21:59 |
| jaska | 258 days :D | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | muhahaha | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, Nokia stocks gone under 9000 | 22:00 |
| kerio | omfg | 22:01 |
| MohammadAG | is there any C app that sets volume? | 22:01 |
| kerio | alsa-mixer | 22:02 |
| kerio | OH WAIT | 22:02 |
| * timeless_xchat runs out of power | 22:03 | |
| timeless_xchat | later all | 22:03 |
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| kerio | timeless' power level... it's not over 9000 ._. | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the truth about the Nokia-M$ deal, and other terrible decisions made by Nokia: http://www.ritsch-renn.com/Alle_Eier/Inhaltsverzeichnis/SC_c_t.gif | 22:04 |
| pupnik | http://imgur.com/SINJe funny | 22:04 |
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| MohammadAG | kerio, using mafw... | 22:05 |
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| kerio | pupnik: it doesn't load | 22:05 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, :) | 22:05 |
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| pupnik | well you can finish the sentence kerio :) | 22:07 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: :D:D:D | 22:07 |
| kerio | pupnik: it still doesn't load | 22:07 |
| pupnik | i wonder why | 22:07 |
| nox- | `slashdotted'? | 22:08 |
| pupnik | can you load that? http://imgur.com/gallery/SlbMN | 22:08 |
| kerio | i mean, it loads half of that | 22:08 |
| kerio | and i can load the gallery | 22:08 |
| pupnik | i think it being incomplete is part of the joke | 22:08 |
| kerio | :< | 22:09 |
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| kerio | i expected something like that, but the rest isn't white or something | 22:09 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, qlistwidget.h:285: candidates are: QList<QListWidgetItem*> QListWidget::items(const QMimeData*) const | 22:12 |
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| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: use qDeleteAll | 22:13 |
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| MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, tried that | 22:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://imgur.com/gallery/1cjkL damn, it works every single time | 22:27 |
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| pupnik | http://imgur.com/gallery/kb3mC Cat .. chaos! | 22:28 |
| maybeHere | http://i.imgur.com/abXmL.jpg | 22:29 |
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| pupnik | nice maybeHere :) | 22:34 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 22:37 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/ http://i.imgur.com/abXmL.jpg" | 22:37 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 22:37 | |
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| LjL | is Vagalume (on OS2008) refusing to authenticate for anybody else? | 22:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eeew vaga | 22:41 |
| LjL | eh, are there alternatives to it? | 22:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I never felt like I need that single option, not to talk about alternatives, But then that's just me | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | for all I can tell, mediaplayer is just fine for me | 22:43 |
| LjL | ok, but mediaplayer doesn't get the music for you :P | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | it doesn't? | 22:44 |
| LjL | well it has radios, true | 22:44 |
| LjL | but you have to pick, among a thousand radios, one that is broadcasting something you might like. and you don't even get to see what they *are* broadcasting without tuning in. | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I managed to tune to exactly the station I planned to listen to, iirc (quite some months if not years back in time, so...) | 22:46 |
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| pupnik | Why not fire elop now? | 22:49 |
| eichi | hello, i thought, I read about an maemo5 application, that reverse looksup numbers in a online telephonebook is i dont have the number in my contacts list. someone knows the name? | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Vagalume: >> Hinweis: Mit der Umstellung der Last.Fm-Radio-API sollen in Zukunft nur noch Abonnenten berechtigt sein, "third-party"-Anwendungen zu verwenden. Momentan ist Vagalume noch verwendbar, ggf. funktionieren nicht alle Sender; ggf. wird es aber in Zukunft nur noch für Last.fm-Abonennten nutzbar sein.<< xl8n: it's expected to cease working | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | eichi: that'd be awesome. Never heard of it | 22:50 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer: actually i was trying it with Libre.fm though | 22:50 |
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| pupnik | some analysis from the Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/ | 22:52 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | LjL, hi | 22:53 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | last time I tried it worked | 22:53 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | and it was this year | 22:53 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | <LjL> is Vagalume (on OS2008) refusing to authenticate for anybody else? | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~reverse Stephen Elop | 22:53 |
| apt | polE nehpetS | 22:53 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | Isn't OS2008 old | 22:53 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | ah I'm on maemo channel | 22:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | sorry | 22:54 |
| LjL | yeah, as a matter of fact the last Vagalume update was in December 2010, so i'm surprised it's not working for me | 22:54 |
| LjL | did you try it with Last.fm or Libre.fm? | 22:54 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | librefm only | 22:56 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | let me try again | 22:56 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | but I'm not on os2008 | 22:56 |
| Gorroth | Nokia and MSFT, sitting in the tree. W-I-N-D-O-W-S | 22:57 |
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| * GNUtoo|laptop reinstall vagalume (I removed it for making some space for wesnoth on the NAND) | 22:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Asked specifically about royalties, Elop said it was er,… complicated, and waved his hands around for a while. He didn't say Nokia was getting CE for free. Instead, he said that there was "a lot of value moving in different directions".<< Read: patents sacrificed | 22:58 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, that would actually be worrying... but I'd more says it's a x-deal... | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Nokia would "have had problems differentiating," with Android, said Elop<< MUHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAha haha ha | 23:01 |
| jacekowski | well, he was right about that | 23:01 |
| jacekowski | they would just became second htc | 23:01 |
| jacekowski | selling same phones for last couple years | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I dunno if Elop or rather differentiation is my personal fav fo rugliest word of the year | 23:02 |
| jacekowski | just bit better hardware every time | 23:02 |
| ruskie | jacekowski, and doing it with WP7 will be what?? just another htc as well... | 23:02 |
| jacekowski | yes but with windows they don't have to compete with htc | 23:03 |
| jacekowski | it's safer bet | 23:03 |
| jacekowski | nokia is phones only company | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, being Balmer's puppy | 23:03 |
| jacekowski | yes, but if they go other way they have bigger chances of getting it wrong | 23:03 |
| jacekowski | and that would be very bad for them | 23:03 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | LjL, it seem to work | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | bs | 23:03 |
| jacekowski | last q of 2010 they sold less symbian phones than androids | 23:03 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | LjL, but I'm not on maemo | 23:04 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | LibreFM | 23:04 |
| jacekowski | so now it's a fact that symbian is a dying platform | 23:04 |
| jacekowski | and there is no hope for symbian | 23:04 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | it works | 23:04 |
| jacekowski | yes but it has bad fame | 23:04 |
| jacekowski | and people won't buy it | 23:04 |
| jacekowski | if you ask average person on a street they will go for iphone or android | 23:05 |
| jacekowski | nokia needs new platform that will sell or there will be no nokia | 23:06 |
| ruskie | jacekowski, erm??? they don't??? | 23:06 |
| ruskie | how exactly? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>So there you have it. Microsoft is less scary than Google. Given the experiences of Sendo, Palm and Sony Ericsson in teaming up with Microsoft, it's a measure of how significantly perceptions have changed.<< read: "how delusional is Elop's perception, or what a pile of steaming BS he tries to feed us" | 23:06 |
| ruskie | htc trophy aka wp7 phone | 23:06 |
| jacekowski | ruskie: one phone so far | 23:07 |
| jacekowski | well, thing is wp7 market is not so tight yet | 23:07 |
| jacekowski | therefore gives them bigger chance of success | 23:07 |
| ruskie | and an even bigger chance of total catastrophic failure... | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: From a POV of a moile telco, I'm not sure he's wrong. | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: A two provider marketplace is scary. | 23:07 |
| ruskie | and considering previous mobile windows incarnations... and their successes... | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | well, windows CE was a decent os | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | not designed for phones | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | but for tablets | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | but it did the job | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | and it was platform that replaced palm | 23:08 |
| ruskie | I seriously hope samsung will be able to fill in the gap for decent open linux devices... | 23:08 |
| ruskie | jacekowski, actually it was palm that didn't innovate that replaced palm | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | folks, it's NOT about the devices! | 23:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you can run meego on almost every platform you like | 23:09 |
| jacekowski | you just need a platform | 23:09 |
| Corsac | s/can/could/ | 23:09 |
| jacekowski | at the moment we only have aging n900 | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and Elop is just proving his ignorance when talking about meego it this hw centric way | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | see for example SHR (yeah shutup), it's running on platforms: Openmoko, HTC, Palm, N900... | 23:11 |
| pupnik | shr is what? | 23:11 |
| ruskie | the openmoko stuff? | 23:11 |
| pupnik | that's interesting.. | 23:12 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, and is it actually running properly? or haly brokenly? | 23:12 |
| budfive | how's the recent shr? | 23:12 |
| ruskie | on all those platforms... | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and as long as Nokia only would be willing to keep the bootloader uncripp^H^Hsigned and publish specs like they did in wirelessmobileapi.com... | 23:12 |
| Gorroth | guys... it's a phone. and a company. you don't have to use their stuff if you think it sucks | 23:12 |
| Gorroth | motorola is always willing to sell you a simple phone | 23:12 |
| pupnik | Gorroth: go away | 23:12 |
| Gorroth | just telling it like it is | 23:13 |
| ruskie | Gorroth, so is nokia... s40 is according to the info getting more investment | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gorroth: your point please | 23:13 |
| Gorroth | DocScrutinizer: my point is if you don't like it, stop buying | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | my point is: if you came here trolling, you better stay away | 23:14 |
| Gorroth | ruskie: yeah, nokia will sell you cheap phones too | 23:14 |
| Gorroth | DocScrutinizer: i just see a lot of bitching is all | 23:14 |
| ruskie | but this has nothing to do with who will sell me what... | 23:14 |
| ruskie | so I still don't get your point in you entering this conversation | 23:14 |
| jacekowski | Gorroth: the problem is that nokia was only really open source friendly company in years | 23:14 |
| jacekowski | Gorroth: and they made good devices | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gorroth: right ATM I see *you* bitching | 23:15 |
| Gorroth | ruskie: oh, well, just ignore me then | 23:15 |
| Gorroth | DocScrutinizer: nah, just making points | 23:15 |
| Corsac | are you? | 23:15 |
| Gorroth | a lot of whining is going on about Elop | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | go make your points to your flipchart, at home | 23:15 |
| Gorroth | just bringing perspective | 23:15 |
| wmarone | I like how criticising corporations is now somehow bad | 23:15 |
| wmarone | we're just supposed to ignore what they do and go somewhere else | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | we don't want perspective here | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | we want to cry alone | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | without anybody trying to make us happy | 23:16 |
| ruskie | wrong place for perspective... | 23:16 |
| Gorroth | wmarone: yeah, that's how capitalism works | 23:16 |
| wmarone | "apple's walled garden is bad" "go somewhere else!" | 23:16 |
| jacekowski | shit happened and we have to deal with it in our own way | 23:16 |
| Gorroth | in fact, it was capitalism that brought nokia to this decision | 23:16 |
| wmarone | Gorroth: I'll still criticize what I consider bad decisions and poor policy | 23:16 |
| Gorroth | wmarone: okay, and i'll bring perspective | 23:16 |
| wmarone | corporations aren't supposed to be immune from criticism | 23:16 |
| wmarone | unless they're just allowed to roll over everyone and do whatever they want | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gorroth: if you don't like our topic here, you aren't forced to join this channel | 23:17 |
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| wmarone | (and yes I realize they enjoy the almost total lack of consumer protections in the US) | 23:17 |
| Gorroth | meh. i'm in the whole "i don't really care what nokia does" camp. best thing about it is i can either choose to buy their stuff in the future or someone else's. i just don't care much in the end | 23:17 |
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| ruskie | Gorroth, then why exactly are you in here? | 23:17 |
| wmarone | Gorroth: obviously if you don't care then this isn't the place to be | 23:17 |
| wmarone | I bought my N900 precisely because I -did- care | 23:18 |
| Gorroth | ruskie: well, i still like maemo. i thought the topic of discussion was that OS | 23:18 |
| wmarone | Gorroth: and it'll probably slowly return to that | 23:18 |
| ruskie | in a week or two... | 23:18 |
| wmarone | as much as it can | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gorroth: please, don't make up basic boolean logics as your new paradigm to teach us so we'll see the truth | 23:18 |
| Gorroth | i care to the point that it works for me | 23:18 |
| Gorroth | DocScrutinizer: oh, sorry, didn't see you there | 23:18 |
| Gorroth | i think you might have said a few things i wasn't reading | 23:19 |
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| pupnik | linux kernel on htc devices seems like a happy thing | 23:20 |
| ruskie | pupnik, if you can provide a GNU or BSD style userspace that is accessible and root access... then it would be happier still... | 23:21 |
| wmarone | lack of xorg compatible video drivers is not :/ | 23:21 |
| LjL | GNUtoo|laptop: uhm ok, thanks for checking. i will try with another account | 23:21 |
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| pupnik | http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-022.htm [ The Windows MetaFile Backdoor ] - Trojan horse malware manufacturer coming soon, to a phone near you? | 23:27 |
| wmarone | ? | 23:28 |
| wmarone | the old WMF bug (who uses WMF files?) | 23:28 |
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| pupnik | wmarone: it's a good FUD article against M$ | 23:38 |
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| wmarone | pupnik: well, anything from GRC is highly suspect | 23:42 |
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| chx | wmarone: why | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: is that Beavis and Butthead? | 23:43 |
| wmarone | chx: he prefers hype over accuracy and has a habit of making doomsday predictions | 23:44 |
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| chx | sure. | 23:44 |
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| wmarone | he actually opposed XP because he was afraid of what would happen if the average user had access to the NT TCP/IP stack | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >>English is a very subtle language. You can tell from the context. We don't have to tell you we're talking about good hackers or bad hackers. There are both. And just listen to what we're saying, and I think it'll be obvious. What I say when people - and I get this all the time still. And I just say, look, we're trying to communicate in a language, a common language. And if most people don't understand "cracker" and they do understand " | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | hacker," that's the word we're going to use.<< OMFG! Who has been teaching your ignorant audience about the meaning of hacker to be a bad thing? | 23:48 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, the media... since the 80s or so iirc | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and meanwhile not even judges do understand it's not a sufficient fact for 10 years doing time, when you wear a T-shirt with "I'm a hacker!" | 23:49 |
| pupnik | hah | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now they do same shit pivoted 90°, with "terrorist". Look at "environment-protection terrorists" or whatever you call it in US | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | And CIA publicly states it's their duty to spread that point of view all over the world | 23:52 |
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| federico2 | LOLWUT?! | 23:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so yeah. Of course! Why extradite Assange to the USA? Let's just tell the fuckin Europeans to shoot him for us | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | muhaha, implemented video listing in open source media player, scrolling through it kicks the shit out of the stock media player | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | <3 Qt | 23:54 |
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