IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-02-13

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vi_nokia trolled us00:01
vi_they played teh long game00:01
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johnxvi_, most expensive trolling effort *evar*00:05
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vi_worth it00:05
vi_totally worth it00:05
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pupnik   <<< that looks pretty good hardware-wise00:11
johnxpupnik, this is back to square one in terms of linux ports to phones though00:12
johnxdon't you remember all the winCE 6 devices that took years to get linux running on? that were missing things like power management and modem support for years after the phone was out?00:12
alteregoGod this film is boring00:13
DocScrutinizerjohnx: we got better on that :-)00:13
alteregoI'm going to wait and see what Nokia do in regards to the next device.00:13
pupniktrue enough johnx00:14
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alteregoI would be happy with things continuing as they are.00:14
johnxDocScrutinizer, I'm not disagreeing, but I'm interested in why things are better nowadays? more talented hackers? more device drivers? more common hardware?00:15
alteregoMore open hardware specs, better collaboration, more interest.00:16
alteregoThe devices are more affordable so there is more interest I guess.00:16
johnxalterego, how much does android hurt or help this process?00:16
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RST38hmoo johnx00:17
alteregoWell, that depends on how it's used. It does promote the idea of OSS though00:17
DocScrutinizeractually that'd be the most reasonable option, or at least he most logical one: just cancel meego, assign the crew to maemo, and open up the sources proper, so community truly can contribute. Then ship a linux BSP (Board Support Package) for all future high end smartphones00:17
alteregoEven if ISVs don't always open up completely.00:17
alteregoEven if ISVs don't always open up completely.00:17
RST38hare we still morbid,or getting philosophicalnow? =(00:17
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DocScrutinizerabout >> I would be happy with things continuing as they are.<< this is00:17
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johnxRST38h, thinking about the future :)00:18
RST38hit is all in technicolor00:18
alteregoYeah, well, I'm looking forward to seeing a polished MeeGo handset from Nokia ...00:18
johnxDocScrutinizer, I'm mostly doubtful of how well maemo 5 can be maintained long term as a distribution00:18
DocScrutinizerjohnx: a bit of all00:18
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alteregojohnx: I was thinking of something more up-to-date, with meego binary blobs and community produced user space apps.00:19
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alteregoAt least until we have a full MeeGo system.00:19
RST38hjohnx: here is one possible future:00:20
alteregoWith more refined Ux00:20
johnxalterego, I'm all for that00:20
johnxRST38h, a login page?00:20
RST38halterego: We had a full Mer system, was it of any use?00:20
DocScrutinizerjohnx: and of course andidiot helps a friggin lot when it comes to anti-vendor ports00:20
johnxthe future is web login pages! You've seen it here first!00:20
RST38hah wait00:20
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RST38hhere, feed00:21
johnxDocScrutinizer, in terms of already having u-boot installed and some basic idea of memory addresses and such super low level stuff?00:21
johnxRST38h, still a login page :)00:22
DocScrutinizerwell, all kinds of driver stuff00:22
johnxnm, it's pushing a PDF at me as well00:22
RST38hread it00:22
DocScrutinizerjohnx: SHR more than once took android drivers and alienated them to work in linux00:23
DocScrutinizerand of course with hackers like Harald Welte things become possible you never thought might ever be00:23
johnxDocScrutinizer, I imagine a lot of the hardest work is actually figuring out the right obscure memory ranges to poke in order to make the device do something. In that sense, the Android drivers are probably a very useful resource00:24
SpeedEvilI love the line from one of his presentationns.00:24
SpeedEvil'There is no open-source mobile phone stack'00:24
DocScrutinizerjohnx: yup00:24
SpeedEvil'So, I took 3 months off, and wrote one'.00:24
johnxRST38h, raster's project :) Sooo, people are making sure that meego and LiMo don't end stupidly source incompatible, right?00:25
DocScrutinizerthough Harald disassembled the WinMo6 kbd driver of Eten M800 and wrote a linux driver, during a flight from Germany to Taipei00:25
RST38hjohnx: Dunno. Do you still bet on Meego?00:25
CorsacRST38h: hu, what's that? another OS from samsung?00:25
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johnxRST38h, tenatively: yes. A lot of the manufacturers involved in LiMo don't have great linux track records00:26
RST38hjohnx: the presentation looks like a good start, and one manufacturer the size of Samsung is enough00:26
johnxalso, I'm still doubtful whether any of those phones will show up in the US or EU00:26
johnxremember the motorola linux phones?00:26
RST38hwe will see00:27
Corsacthere's a lot of blue boxes in the diagram though :)00:27
alteregoI'd also love to get my hands on an N9 proto :D00:27
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MohammadAGwho wouldn't00:28
MohammadAGis there a documented way to set a ringtone?00:28
alteregoYou mean programatically?00:29
johnxRST38h, keyword there is MWC. hey, coincidentally, guess what engadget is covering right now? ;)00:29
MohammadAGneed to add the "Set as ringing tone" context menu thingy00:29
alteregoHrm, not sure, I think you just create a wav and stick it in the appropriate location.00:30
RST38h...Such is the word from TechCrunch's well placed sources, who also say that Nokia dedicated only a three-man external team to the development of UI customizations for MeeGo....00:30
RST38hjohnx: dunno it is 1:30 am00:31
MohammadAGbefore we get rid of Elop, can we get rid of abill_uk? :P00:31
alteregoInteresting, well, that explains why the OS development is "slow" :D00:31
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RST38hMOhammad: Much easier to do, just find his mom's phone number, call her, and tell her he is spending time on the Net watching other children photos, nude00:32
johnxRST38h, it's running over the next several days. Guess we'll see whether the 'SLP' phone has the right frequency support very soon ;)00:32
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RST38hjohnx:I hope so00:33
alteregoI'm so annoyed Nokia scrapped Qt, it's almost unbelievable ..00:33
alteregoBurning fucking platform my ass ...00:33
RST38halterego: If you are annoyed, imagine what those trolls are feeling00:33
alteregoI say we stick Elop on a _real_ burning platform and see what he does.00:34
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johnxalterego, I really hope they do the right thing and spin-off or sell trolltech00:34
pupnikcool, X11 supports multiple pointers00:34
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kevloralHello all00:34
GAN900alterego, I'm in.00:34
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SpeedEvilI have an old windows 3.1 manual I can contribute to a pyre.00:34
GAN900Hear he's the 7th largest MSFT stock holder?00:35
alteregoGAN900: heard the same.00:35
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alteregoGAN900: it's so blatantly dodgy profiteering ..00:35
MohammadAGalterego, Qt will live00:35
RST38halterego: "Will he sink? Will he burn? The beast will have his feast tonight!"00:36
MohammadAGnot on Windows Phone 7, but it's still alive00:36
MohammadAGor they might port Qt... /me holds breath, dies00:36
alteregoMohammadAG: I know, but I'd rather be able to actually use it on phones :P00:36
MohammadAGalterego, then get the N9 ;P00:36
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MohammadAGshould be announced tomorrow right?00:37
alteregoWhen is MWC?00:38
johnxlike now00:38
johnxengadget is there :)00:38
vi_so we get n9 tomorrow?00:39
RST38hwe get even more insanity tomorrow00:39
johnxvi_, yeah. just stop by MWC and steal the prototype00:39
vi_does gthat mean i get my n900 meego upgrade now?00:39
johnxvi_, sure. grab a meego daily testing image00:39
johnxRST38h, "May you live in interesting times."00:40
MohammadAGwould be lulz if Nokia's Windows Phone 7 edits got renamed to Maemo 700:40
RST38hjohnx: Yes, Kali Yuga seems to be on, the last few years00:40
MohammadAGLOL @ post that Maemo is 95% open source00:40
vi_so why is n900 stuck with .28 kernel?00:41
apthmm... openness is
* rm_you waves at johnx00:41
MohammadAGvi_, it's on 2.6.37 with MeeGo00:41
johnxvi_, .37 from, but I'm not sure it'll work with the maemo 5 userland00:41
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johnxhallo rm_you :D00:41
vi_oh god, that is a wet dream00:41
rm_youso what's going on in maemo / meego / nokia land?00:41
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rm_youfirst free weekend in a while00:42
johnxrm_you, uhm, RTFNews00:42
rm_youneed to catch up :P00:42
rm_youyeah i saw the microsoft partnership thing00:42
vi_holy shit00:42
vi_you are jokimg right?00:42
RST38hrm_you: clusterfuck00:42
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MohammadAGvi_, no00:42
RST38hrm_you: You will find details on engadget00:43
rm_youheh yeah00:43
rm_youbeen hearing weird things, i always just come here to get it boiled down and with all of the BS and unfounded speculation stripped out00:43
MohammadAG2.6.37-6, in case you missed it00:43
vi_whooa, whats that mo?00:43
johnxrm_you, not a smart move these days. lot's of speculation floating around. even from me :|00:43
MohammadAGvi_, meego kernel as of 8 February00:44
vi_is meego useable?00:44
MohammadAGfor developers00:45
MohammadAG(with a second N900)00:45
johnxsooo, Nokia's going to release a meego phone this year. Mobile World Conference is on now where we're expecting MeeGo phone news from Nokia and a different Linux phone from Samsung00:45
alteregoMohammadAG: did you see my comments earlier about a more up-to-date maemo with meego closed binaries?00:45
MohammadAGalterego, nope00:45
johnxrm_you, after they release the meego phone they're going cut their meego involvement down to R&D mode, for the possible far future00:45
MohammadAG2.6.37 with MeeGo bme?00:45
alteregoBasically, yes.00:46
MohammadAGand MeeGo mce00:46
alteregoI was thinking we could do it for the cssu00:46
alteregoA _proper_ cssu :)00:46
MohammadAGI suggested that months ago, though I think no one noticed it :P00:46
johnxrm_you, Intel says they're still committed to meego dev.  that's everything we *know* boiled down. Now, there's tons of speculation and plans for the future00:46
MohammadAGthe CSSU is proper alterego :)00:46
alteregoWell, I think I mentioned it about 8 months ago too :P00:47
MohammadAGin fact, I'm replacing osso-notificationlightscp in the next CSSU update00:47
rm_youyeah, i imagine00:47
MohammadAGwith a FOSS clone00:47
alteregoWell, we need a complete FOSS user space.00:47
pupnikthis will have gross repurcussions worldwide00:47
MohammadAGalterego, that's why I suggested rewriting parts bit by bit00:48
pupnikwill TI be as eager to open-source their stuff now?00:48
MohammadAGthe mediaplayer was a start00:48
alteregopupnik: they've been eager? :P00:48
MohammadAGI suggest rewriting the control panel applets, those should be easy, then we can fire up portrait mode in the control panel00:48
GAN900johnx, device, not "phone"00:48
alteregoMohammadAG: I think maybe dialer should be next.00:48
MohammadAGFix some Qt bugs, fix hildon-desktop, add portrait support00:48
johnxGAN900, isn't that what the TSA calls a bomb?00:49
jacekowskiand then what00:49
MohammadAGindeed, though DocScrutinizer says it's not feasible00:49
jacekowskiif we won't have phone to use it00:49
MohammadAGthe N900's still there jacekowski00:49
MohammadAGI imagine it'll be there for quite some time00:49
jacekowskin900 is already obsolete00:49
GAN900johnx, I get the impression it could be a tablet.00:49
RST38hjohnx: No, it is what DoE calls a bomb00:49
MohammadAGthe N900 was obsolete from day 100:49
rm_youGAN900 / johnx: yeah, had to be careful not to say "my device" on international flights with n8x0 :P00:49
GAN900johnx, I don't think the timeline for the budget is that clear, either.00:49
kennaeis there an easy way to lock display brightness to custom level and disable the light sensor?00:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I never said it's not feasible00:50
alteregojacekowski: to you maybe, but I'm still happy to use it .. And develop for it ...00:50
MohammadAGthen you said it's hard to do :p00:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I said it's friggin impossible to make sure it's feature-complete00:50
jacekowskialterego: how does it feel to develop on dead platform?00:50
RST38hrm_you: You could have just called it "my junk", fits n8x0 perfectly well =)00:50
alteregojacekowski: quite good thanks ..00:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: a braindead dialer can be written in 10 minutes00:51
rm_youat the time i loved the thing :P00:51
MohammadAGjacekowski, like it felt 12 months ago :P00:51
johnxjacekowski, to develop on a dead platform things that can be used on future hardware? not too bad00:51
RST38hrm_you: rrrrriiiight!!!!00:51
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it can always be feature-complete00:51
alteregojacekowski: it'll be dead to me when I stop using it, I couldn't give a crap about you continual negativity :P00:51
MohammadAGthough Maemo 7 might be out the time that happens00:51
jacekowskijohnx: if there will be future hardware00:51
jacekowskialterego: it's reality00:51
jacekowskialterego: you are overly optimistic00:51
johnxjacekowski, uhm. Are you predicting an end to smartphones?00:51
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: It can't - unless you decompile and RE every single byte of original00:52
alteregojacekowski: it's your reality ...00:52
jogajacekowski, the phone suddenly dies?00:52
alteregojacekowski: to me the platform is still unsurpassed.00:52
johnxalterego, in fact, it's so hot, it's on fire :D00:52
jogaI'm still very happy with it, I don't dev for it but at least it's easy to hack if I want to00:52
alteregoHell, I still write the occasional app for my Acorn Risc PC ...00:52
pupnikto me also00:52
* RST38h sighs and goes to sleep. The idiot box gods were merciful tonight and showed Imaginarium of Dr Parnassus00:52
alteregog'night RST38h00:52
pupnikand there's more fun stuff available for n900 now than ever00:53
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nevertheless a Cdialer would be a really worthy project00:53
johnxRST38h, 'night00:53
jacekowskiwell, telepathy is still there00:53
MohammadAGI'm happy with the mediaplayer rewrite00:53
MohammadAGprogressed a lot today :)00:53
jacekowskiand you can use telepathy as a backend00:53
jacekowskior something00:53
DocScrutinizerand feature completeness against the original isn't the benchmark, our specs and what we need it to do are00:53
alteregoI think we should bring in ofono00:53
kennaecant wait to see your new mediaplayer00:53
pupnikcongrats MohammadAG00:53
MohammadAGyou can see it now00:54
jacekowskiMohammadAG: feature request - single click on/off fmtxd button on now playing screen00:54
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MohammadAGkeep in mind, development was stalled for a month00:54
MohammadAGjacekowski, hmm00:54
alteregojacekowski: why should he do something for a dead platform?00:55
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: see, Nokia MUST (rfc2119) provide e.g 911 dialing even without SIM. If I know and accept a Community-dialer doesn't support that, so what? Nobody can sue me for using a dialer that doesn't support 91100:55
alteregojacekowski: if you're so against developing for a "dead platform" why the f* are you asking for features?00:55
MohammadAGerr, WHAT?00:55
MohammadAGthe stock dialer doesn't call 911 without a sim?00:56
jacekowskii'm not against00:56
jacekowskii'm just asking how do you feel about it00:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: no00:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you got it wrong00:56
MohammadAGah k00:56
MohammadAGgot it00:56
jonwilMaking a bit of progress on Cell Broadcast but seem to have hit some snags00:56
MohammadAGNokia has to provide the functionality, we don't00:56
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nox-heh emergency calls w/o a sim were dropped in germany some time ago...00:56
SpeedEvilIn the UK, that doesn't work either.00:57
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jonwilIs anyone around who knows their carrier is sending cell broadcast messages?00:59
johnxjonwil, how can I test? or look that up?01:00
jonwilI have no idea01:00
jonwilOr is there someone who knows how to dump data from lower down in the stack (i.e. capturing stuff going between the telephony stack and the modem)?01:00
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SpeedEviljonwil: I'd test - ut tmo in the UK doesn't as I understand it, sorry.01:01
MohammadAGalterego, just wondering, are you still doing the video playback window? Cause video listing is now working01:02
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jonwilbtw, whats this about emergency calls? Is someone working on an alternative phone dialer?01:03
kennaenice work with the mediaplayer everyone01:04
kennaeI thought I wont get any new updates/software for my phone but you proved me wrong with the SSU :)01:04
* MohammadAG needs to figure out how to tie QML code with Qt code01:04
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alteregoMohammadAG: yeah, I'm still up for it.01:05
alteregoI'll look at it Monday01:05
MohammadAG looks sexy, doesn't it?01:06
alteregovery nice :)01:07
jacekowskii see nice mirror effect01:07
jacekowskiand other eyecandy stuff01:07
jacekowskibut, does it work?01:07
MohammadAGyes, not for playlists yet though01:08
MohammadAGtry it01:08
MohammadAGjust wget, chmod +x, and run it01:09
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vi_where is the donate to mohammedg button?01:10
MohammadAG/dev/null at the moment :P01:10
kerioput it right next to the "pause" button01:10
kennaevi_: asked the same thing few hours ago :)01:11
DocScrutinizermeh, SLP has waaay too much blue, on page401:11
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moin01:11
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: do *you* like blue?01:12
vi_when you say meego is only suitable for devs what do you mean?01:12
javispedroDocScrutinizer: no?01:12
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DocScrutinizerlike there ->  p401:12
MohammadAGit's not usable on a day to day basis01:12
MohammadAGor hour to hour basis tbh01:12
johnxvi_, it's not finished and can't be used as a day-to-day OS yet, but if you're interested in hacking on it, it does run01:13
MohammadAGthere's no phone daemon, so you can't accept calls unless you have the phone up started for example01:13
vi_bleh, nvm then01:13
* MohammadAG tries to persuade javispedro to join the maemo foss efforts01:14
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DocScrutinizerPM is crap, or simply not existent yet, afaik01:14
johnxvi_, yeah. thanks for the kind words and encouragement01:14
johnxit does get rather warmish ...01:14
MohammadAGnon existent yet01:14
Loveable_rougeyo all , any 1 help i seem to hae lost my email subscription01:14
MohammadAGlocking the screen would be a great addition01:14
vi_very interested in a meego/maemo hybrid though01:14
MohammadAGI tried to listen to something and make a basic daemon today01:15
MohammadAGsomething = dbus/sysfs/etc01:15
MohammadAGcouldn't find anything about the lock switch01:15
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DocScrutinizercheck friggin sensorfw01:15
Loveable_rougeyo all , any 1 help i seem to have lost my email subscriptions , even thou it says im subscribed !01:15
MohammadAGshouldn't that say something on dbus?01:15
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johnxLoveable_rouge, we saw the message the first time.01:16
MohammadAGalterego, any ideas how to add a glow effect?01:16
DocScrutinizerif it actually monitors the switch then yes01:16
MohammadAGthen it doesn't monitor the switch01:16
Loveable_rougefirst was wrong !!01:16
MohammadAGor isn't running :P01:16
vi_loveable wtf are you talking about?01:16
DocScrutinizerbut maybe you just need to check all keycodes in inputX01:16
Loveable_rouge@vi_ maemotalk forums email subscriptions01:17
vi_yeah, its totaly broken for me too01:18
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Loveable_rougeany ideas why ?01:19
DocScrutinizerwhat's broken?01:20
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JartzaI tried nitdroid but it seems like a dead project01:22
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pupniklg optimus 2x looks like nice hardware01:23
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: actually lockswitch isn't related to kbd, so it's questionable if it shows up at all in /dev/inputN. Actually it's linked to a GPIO (watch syslog ;-D ) and I guess there needs to be some driver to provide the proper /sys node so you can check the state, wait for kevents, etc01:25
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DocScrutinizerwait 30s, I'll get the right sysnode for you01:25
DocScrutinizer(in maemo, but...)01:25
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DocScrutinizer$(cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/kb_lock/state) == open01:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: $(cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/kb_lock/state) == closed    ---> locksw engaged01:27
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I don't think this is a module.ko, so support has to be compiled into kernel. /sys path might have changed, but checking a bit in /sys should probably reveal something, or you need to fix the kernel buildtime config01:37
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I looked in all state files01:39
MohammadAGit wasn't there01:40
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MohammadAGdmesg doesn't show changes01:40
MohammadAGI checked all those, I know it's gpio :P01:40
DocScrutinizercan you patebin a find /sys -name state01:40
MohammadAGwell, I'm not on MeeGo now01:41
MohammadAG%2520 <-- is this a space?01:41
DocScrutinizermeh, I guess they thoroughly screwed the kernel config01:41
MohammadAGfound scrollback01:41
chxyes 2520 is a doubel encoded spacde01:42
MohammadAGcool, thanks01:42
DocScrutinizerummm not a single switch01:42
DocScrutinizernor proxysensor, anything01:43
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MohammadAGproximity is there01:43
MohammadAGI noticed changes from enabled to disabled when I covered it01:44
DocScrutinizernot in your pastebin01:44
MohammadAGI know01:45
MohammadAGI had a while true; do cat allthose; done01:45
DocScrutinizerodds are the path changed massively01:45
MohammadAGI think it's either01:45
MohammadAGone of these01:45
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DocScrutinizerfor sure not01:46
DocScrutinizermight be backlight regulator or whatever01:46
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DocScrutinizeror meego kernel is so extremely messed up... :-S01:47
DocScrutinizertwl_reg.NN isn't GPIO, it's GAYA01:48
DocScrutinizerone (2) of the voltage regulators therein01:48
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DocScrutinizerseems meego kernel really is weird01:51
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alteregonice looking ...
alteregoDoesn't look like it has karl zeiss ..01:54
* SpeedEvil doesn't give a shit.01:54
* SpeedEvil wants a reasonable diameter lens.01:54
DocScrutinizerfind /sys -name '*regulator*'01:55
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DocScrutinizer^^^that's maemo kernel01:55
DocScrutinizerno 12 regulators, at weird addr on i2c_omap.1/i2c-1/01:56
DocScrutinizerthat looks outright wrong01:56
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DocScrutinizermight this be a config for some beagleboard or whatever?01:57
DocScrutinizermeh, now ^^^ that's the answer to vi__'01:58
DocScrutinizers question01:58
DocScrutinizermeego, almost there. Next week we'd ship version 1.1¡01:59
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blackthornemeego isn't dead?02:03
blackthornei've heard that partnership with Microsoft for the high range smart phones02:03
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DocScrutinizermeego is a pile of sourcecode, it can't die. The question is who's keeping up the support and development for it, for which platform, on which level02:07
Sc0rpiusand who will care02:07
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DocScrutinizerIntel will, of course02:07
Sc0rpiusif there are no devices for it, nobody will care.02:07
DocScrutinizernot for handset UX though02:07
Sc0rpiusthen for netbooks?02:07
DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing like a device for an OS. There's OS support for devices, and that's the question, as mentioned above02:08
Sc0rpiuswe'll see02:09
Sc0rpiusto me it's dead right now.02:09
Sc0rpiuswho will develop applications to an OS that is not sold in any device?02:09
Sc0rpiusnobody will.02:10
DocScrutinizerthat's a much better way to put it02:10
DocScrutinizerand yes, I agree on that02:10
Ken-YoungIf there's a decent meego phone released, I'll at least port some code for it.02:12
blackthorneDocScrutinizer: even though, I think Sc0rpius was trying to figure out for what devices does MeeGo will offer support for, putting the things the way you want it02:13
blackthornenetbooks? tablets?02:14
DocScrutinizerobviously not for handset UX02:14
DocScrutinizerIntel is in tablet business aiui, then I heard some car manufacturer is planning to use meego for entertainment (dummy up the childs on backseat)02:15
blackthornethe stock owners, mostly non technical guys seem to be right this time when punishing Nokia for lack of focus02:15
Ken-YoungDoes the fact that Microsoft is not pushing WP7 for tablets, combined with the mothballing of meego, mean that Nokia has no tablet ambitions at all anymore?02:16
blackthorneKen-Young: Microsoft has software for tables02:16
Ken-Youngblackthorne, But not WP7-based, as I understand it.02:16
blackthorneactually they started long time ago, before Apple02:16
blackthorneKen-Young: it's enough to take out room for Nokia02:17
DocScrutinizerElop said they'll ship a meego *device* in 2011. I suspect that'll be a tablet02:17
Ken-Youngblackthorne, Aren't they pushing a derivative of regular Windoze for their tablets, though?02:17
blackthorneKen-Young: yes, that's why I don't see nothing good out of it for Nokia02:17
blackthorneNokia bet a lot with Qt, what are they going to do with it?02:18
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Pavlov_i doubt they do anything with Qt02:18
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Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, That would make sense, but since it just an experimental device for them, it still would mean Nokia has not real tablet ambitions.02:18
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timelessanyone here familiar w/ facebrick02:18
blackthornetoo much for experimental stuff... first it was Maemo, now MeeGo is just an experiment too?02:18
ieatlintthere's a decent possibility that qt will be released under a bsd licence02:19
blackthorneieatlint: currently it's LGPL, right?02:19
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Ken-Youngblackthorne, Beware of manufactures that release "developers' sneak peak" devices.02:19
ieatlinti don't have the details of the actual sale of qt to nokia, but implies that they left an option for the kde foundation to release qt under a bsd licence02:20
alteregoblackthorne: it's not an experiment. It is a real project, a project now that Nokia will only be using for innovations and r&d.02:20
ieatlintblackthorne: yes, it's LGPL and GPL for free i think02:20
blackthorneieatlint: but that was Trolltech property. KDE had anything to say about it?02:20
alteregoblackthorne: the platform is still under development and still has a good chance to be the future.02:20
ieatlintalterego: you're kidding yourself... nokia is sidelining meego and cutting its budget massively02:20
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ieatlintblackthorne: dunno, that kde page certainly implies they do02:21
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alteregoieatlint: so? The project isn't run by Nokia ffs.02:21
timelessieatlint: who announced budget cuts for whatever?02:21
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alteregotimeless: ++02:21
ieatlintuh, let me get the slide02:21
blackthorneI've read that Symbian is still going to be used! So it's WM7, Symbian, MeeGo for Nokia? 2 of them have to go02:21
ieatlintand when one of the two major partners of meego drops out, it takes a platform that would struggle for acceptance and subjigates it even more02:22
_trinewhat I want to know is,, is the channel name going to change to microgo02:22
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timelessblackthorne: you missed s4002:22
alteregoieatlint: hasn't happened yet, and people have been saying that will happen after the first meego device is released.02:22
SpeedEvilMeego is producing one more device withnokia.02:22
blackthornetalking about the smart phones02:22
SpeedEvilThey've committed to.02:22
timelessSpeedEvil: no, we're producing *one* device02:22
ieatlintSpeedEvil: they committed to meego as their major platform too02:22
timelesswe (MeeGo) have produced *zero* devices to date02:22
SpeedEviltimeless: Err - yes02:23
timelessour previous incarnation (Maemo) produced one phone :)02:23
ieatlintthe n9 is cancelled, nokia has decided meego will not be a major platform for them... they did say they would produce a device, but i wouldn't count on it02:23
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SpeedEvilThey also said it'd be a phone.02:23
SpeedEvilThat may have been a mis-statement in passing though.02:23
pupnikcan companies sell phone kits without fcc/ce certification?02:23
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Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, Is that official?02:23
timelesspupnik: in India or China perhaps?02:23
SpeedEvilKen-Young: It was announced at ~12:31 on the stream from
ShadowJKCE is self-certified ;p02:24
SpeedEvilKen-Young: I wasn't however recording it.02:24
SpeedEvilCE can be self-certified - if you're sure of yourself.02:24
Ken-YoungSpeedEvil,  Well, that's a bit of good news, at least.02:24
ieatlintSpeedEvil: the statements i saw just said a 'meego device'02:24
MohammadAGalbum view working in open source media player02:24
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SpeedEvilieatlint: It wasn't in any of the statements I saw - it was during the QA02:24
ShadowJKwhen they said meego device I assumed slapping Nokia sticker on Lenovo Ideapad and doubling the price ;p02:24
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timeless> Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.02:25
ieatlintyeah, what i read said just 'device'02:25
pupniki don't see the use for netbook Os's02:25
timeless'MeeGo-related product'02:25
Pavlov_meego stickers02:25
timelessall of those words are key02:25
SpeedEvilIt's a source CD.02:25
Pavlov_maybe they will produce stuffed meego animals02:25
alteregoMeh, anything Elop says is balls ..02:26
timelesspavlov: with a usb port? :)02:26
Pavlov_meego branded boots?02:26
* SpeedEvil realises!02:26
Ken-YoungMeego branded pink slips, for their programmers.02:26
alteregoI just want a freakin' t-shirt!02:26
timelessi'm pretty sure i have a meego tshirt02:26
SpeedEvilThey've said they have the freedom to brand windows phone 7 as they like.02:26
timelessi have no idea where it is02:27
* rm_you waves at timeless02:27
SpeedEvilThis means that the meego device will actually be a theme for windows phone.02:27
rm_youcrazy times, eh :P02:27
timelessso, i tried Facebrick02:27
timelessit doesn't work02:27
ieatlintanyway, no one should count on a nokia meego device ever hitting a retail store... it may happen, they've said it'll happen, but based on their statements, it wouldn't make financial sense to do so02:27
timelessand i can't get the native facebook client to work either02:27
timelessieatlint: the 770..n810 didn't make financial sense02:28
rm_youi had some issues once with a weird version of the account integration library, had to apt-get upgrade manually to get it fixed02:28
timelessthat didn't stop us from shipping them02:28
timelessthe n810 wimax edition didn't either02:28
ieatlinttimeless: yeah, and they hired a new ceo to turn around their falling profits and eliminate things that didn't make sense02:28
Ken-YoungI'm surprised facebrick became abandonware.   THe developer seemed so enthusiastic, initially.02:28
timelesswe even shipped that02:28
_trineThis could be more than the end of meego it could be the beginning of the end of Nokia02:28
ieatlintlooks like he's doing just that02:28
alteregoI dunno, this community has a lot of talent. They'd be very stupid to miss the opportunity.02:28
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timelessKen-Young: oh, it's abandon-ware? shame02:28
alteregoBut clearly they are stupid ...02:28
Ken-Youngtimeless, I think so.02:28
timelessinternetishard: please don't irc as root@02:28
internetishardwhat can I do ahead of time to this android app I'm building to hasten portability to the nokia?02:28
dotblankSpeedEvil, what?02:29
internetishardtimeless, I will if I want, sorry it bothers you.02:29
Pavlov_build it on the web02:29
dotblankSpeedEvil, so pretend the wp7 isn't actually wp7 but instead meego02:29
MohammadAG<timeless> so, i tried Facebrick02:29
timelessMohammadAG: yeah...02:29
MohammadAG<timeless> it doesn't work02:29
timelessMohammadAG: yeah...02:29
MohammadAGfacebook fucked up their API, libqfacebook was broken02:29
MohammadAGand it was broken more than once, so I guess the dev got fed up02:30
timelessMohammadAG: does that explain why the native client doesn't work?02:30
timelessfacebrick gives an error parsing a feed02:30
MohammadAGwhat native client?02:30
timelessi have a VoIP account option for Facebook02:30
MohammadAGyou mean Chat?02:30
timelessis that not native?02:30
timelessi guess?02:31
MohammadAGif you're talking about chat, I just signed in02:31
MohammadAGseems to be working fine02:31
rm_youyes, there is a base facebook client that shipped with the device02:31
rm_youi havent tried it in a while02:31
rm_youlet me check02:31
MohammadAGthat's just jabber with an icon on top02:32
ieatlintalterego: bleh, finally found it..
MohammadAGit was added when facebook exported their chat servers via jabber02:32
ieatlintthat page has a slide that visualises their future meego r&d spending02:32
rm_youno, there's another one, that has a home widget02:32
ieatlintit's not numbers, but it's a very obvious clue as to what their plans are02:32
DocScrutinizertimeless: wait wait02:32
MohammadAGthat works too rm_you02:32
DocScrutinizertimeless: you're saying meego devision of Nokia is planning to build a device with Nokia, right?02:33
ieatlintand you can see the green "meego" block turn into a green too-small-for-text sliver02:33
timelessDocScrutinizer: 'with nokia'?02:33
DocScrutinizerwell, meego has no reflow street02:34
DocScrutinizerso I guess it's like with OM and FIC, one subdivision is ordering hw from another subdivision02:34
DocScrutinizeranyway, key point of my question has been "YOU (meego division of Nokia) are building a device"?02:36
timelessom? fic?02:36
DocScrutinizernevermind that02:36
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ieatlint also suggests that a meego phone by nokia could be announced at MWC just the same, and has a couple rumours about it02:36
timelesswell, that's what the press release said02:36
timelessi have to trust it02:36
DocScrutinizeryeah, but press release didn't mention WHO is building the meego-related product02:36
ieatlintintel made that same mistake ;p02:36
internetishardwhat can I do ahead of time to this android app I'm building to hasten portability to the nokia?02:37
timelesshrm, it didn't...02:37
* timeless looks for evidence that MeeGo computers will build the meego-related product02:37
DocScrutinizerwho inside the many subdivisions of Nokia...02:37
timeless is amusing02:38
DocScrutinizertimeless: that'S what I'm asking. If it were meego branded rubber boots, then probably it weren't meego *computers* division to build it02:38
timelessfair enough02:38
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timelessafaik we don't have a rubber boots division02:38
timelessand i believe there's a legal agreement that says tires are to be built by nokian instead of nokia02:39
DocScrutinizeryou know I'm not talking hard facts here :-)02:39
timeless - DocScrutinizer Oops. Lost?  Don't worry, it's not serious, but it looks like the page you've requested isn't available.02:39
DocScrutinizerbut aiui the Nokia MeeGo subdivision is very phone-centric02:39
timelessDocScrutinizer: we're very one product centric ;-)02:40
timelessok, this nokia searching stuff is hard02:40
timelessi can't find proof that our one product is the one nokia plans to ship02:41
DocScrutinizerand was your focus changing massively regarding type of your product to build, recently?02:41
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DocScrutinizerok, thanks. :-D02:42
ieatlintyeah, i know nokia employees didn't get any real advanced warning02:42
timelesssure we did, our family told us to read articles in the NYT!02:42
timelessor WSJ! or WPost!02:42
ieatlintyeah :902:42
timelessplus, we got a twitter alert about two turkeys and an eagle!02:43
timelessalthough, i doubt most of us had twitter alerts for turkeys or eagles...02:43
ieatlinti wish everyone at nokia luck over the next few weeks when the pink slips start going out :(02:43
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DocScrutinizerpink slips ? o.O02:45
rm_you(termination notices)02:45
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ieatlintheh, yeah, guess it's an americanism... it's based off notion that layoff notices are on pink slips of paper02:46
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Ken-YoungLike "green cards".02:47
DocScrutinizerlike green mankini02:47
budfiveKen-Young: green cards are actually pink02:48
ieatlinthaha, yeah.. not actually green02:48
ieatlintand layoff notices aren't actually pink (typically, anyway)02:48
DocScrutinizerand borat really looks awesome in a green mankini02:48
ieatlintwe also call the title/certificate of ownership for a vehicle a "pink slip", oddly (also not typically pink)02:49
* timeless nods02:49
timelesswe're kinda funny about our colors02:49
timelessgot a pair of rose colored glasses?02:49
timelessactually, i think the majority of finns here have pairs they could give up02:50
DocScrutinizerwell, our drivers' licences here actually are pink (have been), but they are just caled cardboard02:50
* javispedro notes the lemmings have already forgot about how bad MS is now that the noksoft phone "concepts" are out, what with the engadget post having +2500 drools02:50
ieatlintheh, all i can say is i went out today and bought an android phone02:51
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DrGrovGood evening guys and gals02:51
DocScrutinizertimeless: seems to me like they'll terribly need those rose colored glasses soonish02:51
Ken-Youngieatlint, Why the rush to abandon maemo - nothing works anymore poorly than it did last Thursday.02:52
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: microkia, not noksoft02:53
ieatlintKen-Young: nothing works any better than it did a year ago really either... also, my mobile carrier had an awesome deal for this weekend, heh02:53
javispedroDocScrutinizer: hey, I love doing Nok* word games. DrNokSnes, remember? =)02:53
ieatlintgot a phone with a $499 retail price for $4002:53
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mikki-kunuhhhh, any bash pros around?02:56
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budfivemikki-kun: ask and find out :)02:57
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mikki-kuni did switch my PS1 on my n900, and tried adding color, but that kind of killed it badly...02:57
Ken-YoungThey may be too bashful to respond.02:57
mikki-kunmy PS1 is "\t \e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h \e[34m>\e[0m "02:57
mikki-kunand when i input there, when ssh'd to my n900 more that 113 chars it resets the line and starts writing at the beginning of the line, overwriting PS1 and what is typed before that02:58
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DocScrutinizerthat's probably also libvte03:00
DocScrutinizernot bash03:00
DocScrutinizerI've seen similar oddities with xterm and bash on SHR & FR03:01
mikki-kunshr and fr is? :)03:01
derfmikki-kun: You have to surround the escape codes with \[ \] or the spacing gets screwed up.03:01
mikki-kunswitching if colors is makeing the line work03:01
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DocScrutinizerFreeRunner, Openmoko phone03:01
mikki-kunderf: i'll try :)03:02
timelessieatlint: actually, isn't community update coming along? that's something better than 1.303:02
budfivederf: confirmed. that fixes it03:02
mikki-kunderf: so like this? "\t\[ \]\e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h\[ \]\e[34m>\[ \]\e[0m"03:03
pupnik"This video contains content from Al Jazeera. It is not available in your country. "03:03
pupnikwhat the fuck is wrong with Germany??03:03
timelesspupnik: possibly wwii consequences03:03
nox-pupnik, o_O03:03
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pupnik   << can you see this?  (al jazeera)03:04
nox-this still exists
nox-uh no03:04
nox-silly stuff...03:05
ieatlinttimeless: not going to solve any of my big criticisms, or improve the hardware performance.  i've been waiting for the n900's successor.  i read friday's release to say that it may never happen, or at the very least, won't happen anytime soon03:05
ieatlintmy n900 is 15months old, and nothing has even been announced to replace it03:05
timelessieatlint: actually, i think you misread the release03:05
timelesslemme look more carefully03:05
ieatlintnot waiting around any longer03:05
pupniknox-: yes but the content is blocked here -03:05
timeless> Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.03:05
ieatlintno matter the wording, it doesn't announce any specific phone or give a release time other than "this year"03:05
* SpeedEvil passes timeless /dev/urandom.03:05
* javispedro waits for tracker to "deindex" 7000 pictures03:05
timelessieatlint: "this year" should be 201103:06
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ieatlintyes, but there's a good 10 months left of it03:06
pupnikall al jazeera youtubes seem to be censored in germany03:06
SpeedEvilI'm personally happy for hardware to be at the end of the year.03:06
SpeedEvilAs I have a device in good condition.03:06
* javispedro thinks it'll probably be released by the end of the year03:07
nox-pupnik, wtf03:07
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mikki-kundashavoo: ahhhh, i got it and thanks a lot for that \o/03:07
ieatlintmy device is in good condition, but the warranty is gone, the device underpowered versus competitors, and the maps are a joke03:07
nox-pupnik, this still runs from here:
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mikki-kunanybody who wants to try it out: PS1="\t\[ \]\[\e[34m\][-\[\e[32m\]\u\[\e[34m\]-\[\e[0m\]\h\[ \]\[\e[34m\]>\[ \]\[\e[0m\]"03:07
nox-just not the videos linked from it...03:07
* trumee__ is trying out nitdroid03:08
* trumee__ maybe will have to move to android someday03:08
trumee__irc client on android is rubbish03:09
trumee__xchat is much better03:09
javispedroandroid itself is rubbish =)03:09
mikki-kuntrumee__: why not use ssh and screen for linux-based clients?03:09
pupniknox-:  that one works03:10
trumee__i use znc on my desktop and connect to it using xchat03:10
nox-pupnik, wtf is wrong with youtube...03:10
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trumee__mikki-kun, no idea how to do nick completion on android03:10
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mikki-kunno tab button?03:12
SpeedEvilGet a galaxy tab.03:13
SpeedEvilThat must have a ta button.03:13
trumee__mikki-kun, cant find it03:13
DrGrovGive me a list of 3 phones I should consider to use after I bash in the N8 with a sledgehammer03:13
timelessyeah, i couldn't get the irc client for android to do anything useful03:13
trumee__i was hoping to test swype, but android market doesnt list it03:13
timelessDrGrov: what did you have before the n803:14
timelessand why in the world did you buy the n8?03:14
* jonwil wishes he could figure out why his cell broadcast SMS test code was broken03:14
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DrGrovtimeless: I bought the N8 for the camera and multimedia stuff.03:14
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* jonwil wishes he had a way to do a low level packet capture of the cell broadcast SMS packet being sent from the cell modem back to the AP side03:14
DrGrovtimeless: I had a N900, then a Samsung Galaxy 3 and then the N8.03:15
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mikki-kunjonwil: maybe setup an own cell tower?03:15
timelessDrGrov: you require 12mpix ?03:15
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jonwilthe cell broadcast SMS messages are being recieved03:16
DrGrovtimeless: It has served me well. No, not a new phone. 5 could even be enough. Now I am more into the actual phone.03:16
DrGrovtimeless: Not so much into the geeky stuff, surely I want geeky stuff but it is not the most important.03:17
jonwilwhat I need to figure out (by dumping the low level packets e.g.) is whether the issues with decoding them come from my test code03:17
jonwilor from the lower level code in libsms and libcsd-sms03:17
timelessDrGrov: i presume you don't want/need a hardware keyboard03:17
timelessyou don't require hackable since you got the n803:17
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* timeless would just get an iphone403:18
DrGrovtimeless: A hardware keyboard, physical keyboard. That makes things a whole lot easier though.03:18
DrGrovtimeless: Nah, not an iPhone. Do not want to become such a user.03:18
DrGrovtimeless: Other suggestions?03:19
jonwilIf I wasnt a N900 user (and didnt care about hackable) I would choose the HTC Desire Z or Motorola Milestone03:19
timelessi haven't heard good things about the milestone03:19
mavhcthere's hackable and there's hackable03:19
jonwilif I didn't care about physical keyboard, one of the Galaxy S family would be my choice03:19
DrGrovtimeless: Would you suggest a HTC Legend or a HTC Desire HD?03:20
trumee__facebook app on android is nice03:20
mavhcI have a milestone03:20
timelesstrumee__: ooh, i should try that!03:20
* timeless wonders where the nitdroid n900 is03:20
DrGrovtrumee__: Yes, that is nice. My soon-to-be-wife got the Galaxy S.03:20
jonwilIf you dont care about physical keyboard, the Galaxy S family are the best Android handsets out there03:20
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DrGrovjonwil: I am seriously getting upset again. Depressed also.03:21
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jonwilwhy are you depressed03:21
DrGrovI mean that again I am into my old habits of changing phone like it is my underwear.03:21
trumee__timeless, couldnt get youtube/flash to work though03:21
trumee__timeless, on nitdroid 0.0.903:22
timelessoh, is there a way to upgrade nitdroid?03:22
timelessdoes it auto offer/update?03:22
DrGrovjonwil: That is why I am getting depressed.03:22
DrGrovjonwil: Since I know that once I start changing phones I will not stop... :/03:22
trumee__timeless, i dont think so. but i am not an expert03:22
trumee__closing apps on android is so unintuitive.03:23
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jonwilhmmm, might post to the dev mailing list asking if anyone knows how to dump low level cellmo packets03:24
pupnikminimize app, then start task killer, then kill app03:24
mavhcdon't close them then03:24
DrGrovjonwil: You think I would benefit from changing back to the Galaxy 3 for the time being so I can get used to Android again before eventually buying something else?03:24
nox-pupnik, wtf really?03:25
jonwilWhat was wrong with your N900?03:25
EdLinDrGrov: I'd suggest an HTC HD2 if you want hackable non-n900 phone, it runs Android very well, and can also run Meego and WM6.5, WP7, and Ubuntu, among other things in emulation.03:25
mikki-kuni have seen quite a few devices so far and the G2 and Nexus 1 look nice, as does Moto Defy (is a bit sturdy, at least from the looks)03:25
mavhcthe point is you don't have to close apps03:25
DrGrovEdLin: What are the prices on the HTC HD2 at the momen?03:26
pupniknox-: well yes03:26
jonwilyeah the HTC HD2 seems to be the "little phone that could"03:26
pupnikbut you shouldn't need to do that03:26
EdLinDrGrov: free on contract refurbished, t-mobile is retiring it.03:26
budfiveanybody played with the webos devices? pre looked pretty interesting a while back03:26
mikki-kunjonwil: well, i wish you the best of luck with hacking and have fun while doing so. i hope and am pretty sure you will be successful... maybe try it once while on a booze ^^03:26
DrGrovEdLin: Is it SIM unlocked?03:27
nox-pupnik, and that when most)?) apps are java too?  how much ram do androids usually have? :)03:27
EdLinDrGrov: if you want it without a contract, you can get it for a little over $200 on ebay.03:27
mavhcmoving from maemo to webos would just be being awkward03:27
jonwilI dont drink alcohol :)03:27
DrGrovEdLin: Ok, that is a reasonable price at least :)03:27
EdLinDrGrov: tmobile us will give you the unlock code after 40 days.03:27
DrGrovWhat is the easiest way to get music on the Galaxy 3? Via memory card perhaps?03:27
jonwilI considered webos when I was shoping for my new phone but then HP bought Palm and I have blacklisted HP03:27
pupnikwebos devices don't have landscape keyboard03:27
EdLinif you ask for it03:27
jonwilso I rejected webos03:27
pupnikwhat's bad about hp jonwil ?03:27
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DrGrovEdLin: Will it work in Europe as a 3G phone with HSPA/HSDPA capacity?03:28
mavhctheir sauce03:28
EdLinDrGrov: no, for that you'll need to get a european hd2.03:28
trumeeNitdroid rebooted my device!. Back in maemo and lovely xchat03:28
mikki-kunjonwil: maybe it would help once ^^ not saying it will, it might just give you an inspiration :) (i for one drink very rarely as well, maybe once every 6 months, if i find the time)03:28
DrGrovHow can I know which battery is for the Galaxy 3? I have 2 Samsung batteries which look scarely similar03:28
jonwilI get enough inspiration from the large quantities of Coca-Cola I consume :)03:29
mikki-kunDrGrov: no ID infos on them?03:29
mikki-kunjonwil: if you think so :) maybe switching to pepsi would help already XD03:29
DrGrovmikki-kun: Ah yes, stupid me :) Perhaps too focused on disappointment :)03:29
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jonwilcoke > pepsi03:29
EdLinDrGrov: American 3g phones won't work in general on european 3g networks, except the n8 which is pentaband.03:29
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mikki-kunDrGrov: no problem ^^03:29
DrGrovI think now it is time to really shut down the N8 and leave it in the shelf and get down and dirty with the Galaxy 303:29
jonwilI have spent quite a few nights since getting my N900 staying up until early in the AM drinking cola and trying to reverse engineer stuff03:29
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DocScrutinizerEdLin: citation needed03:30
DrGrovMemory card is the easiest way to get music onto the Galaxy 3?03:30
jonwilDon't drink Pepsi unless I have no other choice (i.e. when I am at KFC)03:30
mikki-kunjonwil: i know what you mean with either stuff for studies to do or browsing infos for how to hack my gentoo installs even nicer :)03:31
EdLinDocScrutinizer: T-Mobile uses AWS, AT&T mostly uses non-EU bands also.03:31
DocScrutinizerso that's no statement about phones, no?03:31
EdLinDocScrutinizer: phones don't usually support 3 different 3g schemes.03:31
EdLinDocScrutinizer: it would make the radio too expensive.03:32
* jonwil is glad he is switching to a new carrier03:32
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jonwilThe old carrier is building a UMTS850 network03:32
mikki-kunjonwil: which one you switched to?03:32
EdLinDocScrutinizer: nokia did make a radio that supports all of them though, and put it in the n8.03:32
jonwilwell I switched from Vodafone Australia to TPG Mobile (who are a reseller of Optus Australia)03:32
jonwiljust waiting for my new SIM to be activated03:33
mikki-kundid anybody hear, nokia "sub-CEO" of usa got a kick and a Microsoft guy took over...03:33
jonwiland my number to be ported over03:33
jonwilthen I will get an email and I will know to switch SIMs03:33
mikki-kunDrGrov: you mean this one?
DrGrovDamn this03:33
EdLinmikki-kun: that's the third former microsoft employee to take an executive position since elop took over, it's a coup, not a partnership.03:33
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DrGrovmikki-kun: Yes, that one03:34
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mikki-kunEdLin: you know what my mind thinks: ":| let's go on a hunt for microsoft guys"03:34
mikki-kunDrGrov: the screen-size seems rather small03:34
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EdLinDrGrov: 400x240?!03:34
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mikki-kunEdLin: hey, i am a Finn and am highly offended by what is happening to Nokia -.-03:35
DrGrovmikki-kun: I have it already actually. It is a phone I had as my 2nd phone03:35
EdLinDrGrov: and tft from samsung? That's not exactly a high-end android phone.03:35
DrGrovEdLin: Read my last writing and you will understand03:35
EdLinand you don't want a low-end android phone, trust me on this, I had a cliq xt.03:35
DocScrutinizerEdLin: that all sounds correct, but is no facts. Obviously N900 can work with some US 3G networks. And afaik a lot of those supporting all US 3G bands at least support some rest-of-world bands as well, so will work with some e.g European carriers, just like the european phones work with some US carriers03:35
DrGrovEdLin: I actually love the phone, not getting too used with it last time though.03:36
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jonwilThe good news is that I found a few things out about the N900 cellmo stuff. Firstly I found out that the the SMS part of the N900 modem is using SMS isi interface version 5.1 (which is present in the documentation I have from
EdLinDocScrutinizer: none support all US 3g bands....03:36
EdLinexcept the n8.03:36
DrGrovSo how do I know which battery should go with the Galaxy 3? I have 2 different damn small Samsung batteries in front of me03:36
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jonwilSecondly I found out that the location stuff is using an ISI interface version NOT in the docs I have03:36
EdLinanyhow, the question was, does the American T-Mobile HD2 support european 3g? The answer to that is no.03:36
EdLinyou have to get a European HD2.03:37
otwieraczIs available to start maemo without /usr?03:37
DocScrutinizerDrGrov: I'd guess when it fits, it should work03:37
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Ok, it fits actually and says 1500mAh03:37
DocScrutinizerI mean that'd be utterly silly of Samsung to build two mechanically identical noncompatible batteries03:38
mikki-kundoes here anybody have a sports-band for his n900?03:38
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: The other battery is for my Samsung S560003:38
EdLinDocScrutinizer: there's more to tmobile US's AWS scheme than the bands, by the way, they use the bands differently than in the EU.03:38
DrGrovNot sure it is the same though03:38
otwieraczI'm trying to move my n810 /usr to mmcblk0p1 (internal mmc), but I want to know what to do if I make a mistake.03:39
DrGrovAnd I gotta find the damn charger also from somewhere :D03:39
otwieraczIs there any rescue console for maemo?03:39
otwieraczEg. textmode, or something.03:40
DocScrutinizerEdLin: I just don't care. If I want to know if a phone works in EU, then I don't ask which carriers it accepts in US, I rather simply look at the device's specs03:40
mikki-kunotwieracz: uhhh, wait... /usr from your n810 to the n900?03:40
EdLinDocScrutinizer: if you don't care, why did you interfere in my answering a question someone else was asking? ;-)03:40
DocScrutinizerEdLin: if you can't read a short answer of me, why do you interfere with my mood?03:41
otwieraczmikki-kun: no, no03:41
otwieraczI need more space at / and I want to move /usr to mmcblk0p1.03:42
mikki-kunon the n810 or n900? for the n900 i can say from what i read it will render your device unbootable03:42
DocScrutinizerotwieracz: see03:42
aptextra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and ...03:42
DocScrutinizerotwieracz: there are things in /usr that MUST be in / instead, Nokia messed it up03:43
luke-jrQt doomed?03:43
DocScrutinizerduh N81003:43
DocScrutinizerprobably even worse03:43
EdLinluke-jr: Nokia is doomed too, look at all of the other mobile partnerships Microsoft made.03:44
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otwieraczListen - I want to mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 at /usr03:44
otwieraczfrom fstab.03:44
luke-jrotwieracz: good luck.03:44
luke-jrotwieracz: unless you're making your own OS…03:44
otwieraczIt makes difference?03:44
otwieraczProbably it wouldn't there's no difference for apps - it's /usr anyway.03:45
luke-jrotwieracz: Maemo won't boot if /usr isn't in the main rootfs03:45
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otwieraczSo stupid.03:46
otwieraczAny good reason for this?03:46
luke-jrno reason would be a good reason by definition03:46
otwieraczAnd any other ideas how to get more space at /?03:46
EdLinotwieracz: rm -rf /03:47
otwieracz/dev/mtdblock4          249.5M    216.4M     33.1M  87% /03:47
mikki-kunEdLin: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0p0  :)03:47
otwieracz33mb, quite a few...03:47
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EdLinmikki-kun: I prefer /dev/random, it makes the results more interesting03:48
mikki-kunfor anyone trying this what i wrote... it will basically kill your device03:48
EdLinyeah, don't try this at home kids03:48
mikki-kunEdLin: that will take ages... urandom is there a bit faster...03:48
mikki-kunEdLin: and random needs input from you, so move your mouse XD03:49
* jonwil wishes he could find a solitare game for his N90003:49
otwieraczrandom won't work fine.03:49
timelessjonwil: there is one03:49
jonwilCant find anything in HAM03:49
otwieraczit's true random from input devices.03:49
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jonwilunder "games"03:49
otwieraczurandom have entropy.03:49
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timelessjonwil: hrm, good question. i've seen it03:50
mikki-kunotwieracz: random takes your input as it's entropy pool.... if you make no input the pool is drained and no further input possible :)03:50
* timeless wonders why downloads can't find it03:50
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otwieraczmikki-kun: as I tell.03:51
jonwilmaybe the solitare thing is only in -testing or -devel03:51
jonwilwhich I dont have enabled03:51
otwieraczwhatever, how to make more free space?03:51
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budfiveanybody here using tmobile US's contractless $10/mo unlimited data service?03:52
rm_youbudfive: i believe johnx is?03:53
rm_youi *was* on the plan but then when i got my own account they figured out i had a smartphone and switched me03:53
budfiverm_you: ok03:53
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budfiverm_you: I was using that just fine, but they downgraded me to 200mb one fine day without telling me03:54
luke-jrbudfive: what?03:54
luke-jrwhere do yuo see this service?03:54
DocScrutinizer(<otwieracz> Any good reason for this?)  <DocScrutinizer> otwieracz: there are things in /usr that MUST be in / instead, Nokia messed it up  --- what of this has been unclear?03:54
SpeedEviljonwil: Where in the world are you?03:55
SpeedEviljonwil: Oh - UK - I forgot03:55
budfiverm_you: they aren't saying anything about me using a smartphone, but are still refusing t o undo whatever they did. wondering if somebody knows something03:55
SpeedEviljonwil: Oh - somewhat out.03:55
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budfiveluke-jr: up until very recently, tmobile's contractless service had a $10/mo unlimited data option for dumb phones03:55
rm_youbudfive: i think i may have heard something a while back about them planning to cap their data service somehow03:55
luke-jroh, that's only with a voice plan though03:55
rm_youbut assumed there would be warning03:55
otwieraczDocScrutinizer: it will be in /03:56
* luke-jr struggles to maintain his effectively 10-USD-every-3-months-for-unlimited-data plan03:56
DocScrutinizererr, you said you want to move it?03:56
budfiverm_you: I'm not completely sure. Really seems like somebody screwed up. I talked to the rep, who spent 20 minutes figuring out that whatever happened shouldn't have happened, but couldn't undo it03:57
DocScrutinizerotwieracz: please, stop playing stupid03:57
jonwilI like Australian mobile plans, they are so sane compared to what you get in say, the USA03:57
otwieraczThere will be /usr with the same files like previous.03:57
luke-jrbudfive: yeah, I hate how mistakes can't be undone at TMo03:57
luke-jrthey screwed up my last SIM card, so I had to pay for a replacement03:57
luke-jrthey wouldn't even waive the cost of the new one03:57
budfiveluke-jr: seemed like the 20 minutes was wasted, since he couldn't do anything anyway03:57
budfiveluke-jr: what service are you using?03:58
otwieracz /usr will be mountpoint.03:58
DocScrutinizerthere will be NOT, unless I misunderstood you want to move and mount it, which obviously means there's a state before mounting where it's not in /03:58
DocScrutinizerand init scripts need things from /usr prior to you getting to moint it03:58
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otwieraczbefore rootfs is mounted?04:00
otwieracz(so before fstab)04:00
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jonwilI found the ISI headers I wanted in the QT SDK download04:00
otwieraczeverything needed for that early stage isn't in initfs?04:01
luke-jrbudfive: T-Mobile04:01
budfiveluke-jr: what's your $10/3months scheme?04:02
luke-jrbudfive: Sidekick plan. Allowed to have the daily fee expire with 1 minute remaining, then refilled before the 1 minute expires.04:03
luke-jrwithout the daily fee, texting and voice are prohibited, but not data04:03
budfiveluke-jr: hmmm. is that somethng that's long grandfathered?04:03
luke-jryeah, pretty much04:04
luke-jrit's like $1/day + 15 cents/min04:04
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otwieraczlinuxrc looks quite interactive - boot options (mmc, usb), how to use it?04:05
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DocScrutinizerotwieracz: no idea. I first didn't realize you were asking about diablo/N810. N900 has no initrd. I'd nevertheless guess you will run into problems on N810 as well04:05
DocScrutinizerotwieracz: serial console I guess04:05
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DocScrutinizeralso NB that N900 init doesn't care about fstab, except for creating it fresh on every boot04:07
otwieraczI wosh that there is no some hotkey and *poof*, I see console, not nokia logo.04:07
DocScrutinizeralas that's not how it works. You need a fixture jig and a serial terminal04:08
DocScrutinizerto contact the testpoints under battery (on N810 I think they are beneath battery)04:08
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otwieraczI saw.04:09
aptDocScrutinizer meant: to contact the testpoints under battery (on N810 I think they are aside battery)04:10
DocScrutinizernah, under battery as well04:11
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GeneralAntillesDid Texrat coin Elopocalypse05:09
wmaronedon't know, it could have come from anywhere05:09
SpeedEvilElopalypse scans better.05:11
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil: yeah, it does.05:11
GeneralAntillesCatching up on the news is giving me indigestion.05:11
GeneralAntillesSomebody cheer me up.05:11
* SpeedEvil passes GeneralAntilles the happy gas.05:12
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GeneralAntillesFuck me, I need a day off.05:17
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* pupnik dcc's GeneralAntilles a rosy-cheeked professional gal05:18
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* GeneralAntilles should stop posting to Talk from work on the N900.05:49
GeneralAntillesMy coherence goes out the window.05:49
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zerojayShorten that.05:56
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zerojayStop Talk.05:56
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GeneralAntilleszerojay: surprisingly it's better this weekend than it has been in months.06:07
GeneralAntilleszerojay: also: Howdy!06:07
GeneralAntillesHow's kicks?06:07
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zerojayNot too bad. I haven't been threatening to jump off the balcony like poor Texrat seems close to doing. Heh.06:07
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GeneralAntillesYeah, he does get wrapped up emotionally in this shit.06:10
GeneralAntillesI should talk, though, I've been on the very edge of throttling somebody at work the past two days.06:10
GeneralAntillesMWKN tomorrow is going to be very cathartic, I think.06:11
zerojayI don't really have the anger and emotion about it because I blasted all of it out back when the Maemo -> MeeGo switch happened.06:11
GeneralAntillesHopefully Jaffa will be able to trim some of the more vitriolic stuff. :D06:12
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GeneralAntillesYeah, bad enough the bastards put us through THAT mess.06:12
GeneralAntillesBut then to lead us around like a bunch of idiots for 12 months.06:12
Ken-Youngzerojay, Compared the this week, the maemo abandonment was nothing, I think.06:12
zerojayKen-Young: When that happened, I knew THIS would happen, it was just a matter of time.06:13
GeneralAntillesAt least there were positive possibilities with MeeGo.06:13
Ken-Youngzerojay, I was more gullible, I guess.06:13
GeneralAntillesI can't believe I didn't see it coming.06:13
GeneralAntillesSelf delusion, I guess.06:13
Ken-YoungRight up until Friday morning I was a believer.06:13
zerojayLet's see... having the basic message be "we don't want community" from the start was great.06:13
zerojayIncluding hiring a community manager that did nothing but push people away. That was pretty cool.06:14
timelessGeneralAntilles: at least they led you guys around06:14
timelessone of the things noted by he new ceo is an absolute lack of leadership06:14
GeneralAntillestimeless: I'm feeling particularly bad about those people whose livelihoods are going to be screwed with by this.06:14
timelessGeneralAntilles: i don't06:15
Ken-YoungThere's leadership - leadership from Redmond.06:15
zerojayHonestly, it's not like Nokia had a whole ton of choice here if they wanted to even come close to being in the race, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it.06:15
timelessfinland gets what it deserves06:15
timelessstick all your eggs in one basket06:15
GeneralAntillestimeless: hehe, well, they're not all Finns.06:15
timelessand some day you're get a mess06:15
apttimeless meant: and some day you'll get a mess06:15
GeneralAntilleszerojay: well, I think they had an opportunity to make something happen with MeeGo last year.06:15
GeneralAntillesBut I don't know why they squandered that away.06:15
timelessGeneralAntilles: management insisted on changing directions a number of times06:16
timelessand generally there was no punishment for doing this06:16
timelessjust 6month setbacks06:16
zerojayThe only way I felt that there was going to be any sort of chance of anything really happening was if they stayed on Maemo and continued on with it.06:16
zerojayInstead, they threw it all out and started over.06:16
pupniki felt that way too zerojay06:16
timelesszerojay: power struggles work that way06:16
timelesswe lost ours06:17
timelessmy team lost more than most06:17
GeneralAntilleszerojay: Maemo had not long term viability.06:17
zerojayThen they didn't have anything on the high-end phones.. so they pushed Maemo/MeeGo out into the limelight WAY before it was ready.06:17
GeneralAntillestimeless: hopefully the dinosaurs will die off sooner rather than later.06:17
timelessGeneralAntilles: i was initially worried06:17
GeneralAntillesA multi-vendor platform is the only answer to Android.06:17
zerojayBut I always felt that MeeGo being #1 for them was always a stop-gap measure to keep people happy until they had something else.06:17
timelessthe announcement only showed a couple of casualties06:18
Ken-Youngzerojay, Well, if they hadn't have pushed it out then, we'd probably have no maemo devices at all.06:18
zerojayI just never guessed it would have been "use another company's OS", honestly.06:18
timelessbut i've heard of a couple since the announcement06:18
zerojayKen-Young: We already had a Maemo device.06:18
timelesszerojay: the os isn't so important06:18
timelessit's the ecosystem, which includes a store and apps06:18
pupnikyou guys are the best community though ... <sniff>06:18
timelessremember nokia's store was....Ovi06:18
Ken-Youngzerojay, But that one wasn't really ready either.06:18
zerojayThey weren't pushing it as the company savior at the time. :)06:19
timelessMS's marketplace solves the 'ovi' problem06:19
pupniki thought apt-get solved the 'ovi problem'06:19
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timelessas for apps, i don't think Ovi managed to attract many apps06:19
GeneralAntilleszerojay: yeah, I couldn't have pictured that from Nokia.06:19
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GeneralAntillesCan't really picture it still.06:19
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timelesswhereas MS probably has managed more06:19
Ken-YoungSo who's most screwed within Nokia - the Symbian guys, the Qt guys, or the Meego guys?06:20
timelessKen-Young: the symbian guys have been dead for years06:20
GeneralAntillesProbably Symbian most immediately.06:20
timelessand if they didn't know that, they deserve what they got06:20
pupnikfor crapps we could get android ones06:20
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, zombies can only be so screwed.06:20
rm_youSYmbian developers are dead on the inside? :P06:20
zerojayThe Symbian guys couldn't possibly be screwed. They knew it was dead long ago. How they still had 1500 people on it is... just... I can't even think of how that happened.06:20
* rm_you now pictures a room of zombies drooling on keyboards in front of monitors with the symbian logo06:20
timelessThe Qt v. MeeGo question is interesting06:20
GeneralAntillesQt seems like it has plenty of opportunities outside Nokia.06:22
GeneralAntillesI really wonder what's going to happen to that division, though.06:22
GeneralAntillesGiven it's no longer prominent in Nokia's future strategy.06:22
* GeneralAntilles sighs.06:22
GeneralAntillesI hate Stephen Elop.06:22
zerojayKDE's potentially the most screwed victim in all of this, lol.06:22
GeneralAntillesYour moment of zen for the weekend:
Ken-Youngzerojay, Why is that?06:23
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zerojayKen-Young: They rely on QT.06:23
timelesszerojay: not really06:24
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I think that image has been shooped. No huge sweat stains under Ballmer's arms. :/06:24
timelessQt is open source06:24
zerojayYeah, I'm aware. :)06:24
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GeneralAntilleszerojay: hehe.06:24
luke-jr1 year till BSD licensed Qt?06:24
* GeneralAntilles shudders at the thought of using Android.06:25
zerojayAs an end-user, I like it.06:25
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: join me in putting Gentoo on whatever devices suit me? XD06:26
luke-jrmaybe GTA04?06:26
zerojayWhen my phone got bricked because my provider sent out a firmware update with a bootloader filled with nothing but FFFFFFF.. I had a hard time going back to using the N900, honestly.06:26
GeneralAntillesI've used Android06:26
GeneralAntillesI hated every minute of it.06:26
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GeneralAntillesGoogle's evil and Android is the black hole of open source.06:27
zerojayThe black hole of open source? How do you figure?06:27
GeneralAntillesCo-opting a whole generation of developers to sink time into an "open source" project that doesn't resemble anything vaguely Open Source06:28
GeneralAntillesWhen you contribute to Android, you only contribute to Android.06:28
GeneralAntillesAll you're doing is enabling Google's advertising machine.06:28
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timelessGeneralAntilles: sounds like fun06:29
GeneralAntillesThere's far too much optimism coming out of people making money off MeeGo for me to take it seriously.06:31
GeneralAntillesSounds just the same as it did last February.06:31
GeneralAntillesSo far that's gotten us exactly nowhere.06:31
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zerojayMaybe that's part of the lure of Android. No longer feeling like you are spinning your wheels. I can tell you one thing, I had no idea what to do with myself when I walked into a cell phone store and actually found accessories for my phone. lol06:32
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zerojaySame thing with the apps. "Oh, this is what it's like to actually get support from companies, not just Nokia begging them to make something for us."06:34
wmaroneGeneralAntilles: I'm borrowing the "black hole of open source" label06:34
zerojayAndroid won't ever be as much of a PC in the pocket as Maemo or the N900 was.06:35
zerojayI think I lost years of my life waiting for stuff in Gentoo to compile, hehe.06:35
luke-jrzerojay: you wait for it?06:36
zerojayWhen you compile from stage 1, yes, you sure do.06:36
Ken-YoungI wonder if Nokia would consider simply providing the binary blobs needed to allow a community port of meego to whatever there highest end WP7 phone is.   After all, they might sell a significant number (n900ish volumes) of that phone to consumers who would never consider purchasing it otherwise.06:38
wmaroneKen-Young: not a chance, especially not with Microsoft involved06:40
zerojayAnd wmarone would know.06:40
zerojayWMArone. <--- :)06:40
* wmarone listens to his PlaysForSure music06:41
wmaroneoops, drm server went down06:41
zerojayfailrone. :/06:41
pupnikcan i get a refund from sellers who bundle windows in germany?06:45
GeneralAntilleswmarone: that's why Google is so much more evil than Apple.06:45
GeneralAntillesApple doesn't really pretend to be something it's not. You know what you're getting into from the start (unless you're a fool).06:46
pupniki'm happy with how unixy mobile devices are in 2010 :)06:47
wmaronepupnik: well, they're quite unixy but it's irrelevant if the end user can't take advantage of it should they want to06:50
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pupnikcould android be modified to be more gnu/linuxy?06:51
wmaroneit could, but that's pointless06:52
wmaronesince doing so would break you away from google06:52
wmaroneand you'll be stuck06:52
pupnikit would suck less...06:53
pupnikrun X11 on another framebuffer...06:53
Ken-Youngpupnik, It would suck differently.06:53
pupnikwoohoo Ron Paul won the CPAC straw poll again06:54
Ken-Youngpupnik, Those guys are True Believers.06:54
pupnikno they dis-believe what government tells them :)06:55
pupnikand that usually gives you a head start on figuring out the truth06:56
pupnikpower and honesty don't go together06:57
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pupnik“I think we need to make a distinction between two different kinds of searches — informational and commercial,” he said. “If you search ‘cancer,’ that’s an informational search and on those, Google is amazing. But in commercial searches, Google’s results are really polluted."07:05
pupnikyea we noticed..07:05
Ken-YoungWhy doesn't Google just blacklist sites like eHow for search?07:06
tank-manlearn to search?07:06
tank-manyou can use "-ehow"07:06
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zerojayKen-Young: They're supposed to roll out something soon for all that.07:07
Ken-YoungMost casual searchers won't do that, so they get eHow crap (and other content farms).07:07
pupnikKen-Young: they do punish sites that game the search engine07:08
Ken-Youngpupnik, Not very successfully, it appears.07:08
tank-mancompare "how to do everything" and "how to do everything -ehow"07:09
tank-manyou just need the right search terms07:09
Ken-YoungSo users of Google are supposed to maintain their own lists of crap sites, and disallow them in their search queries?07:10
zerojayGoogle's in the middle of working on something to get rid of the content farms from results.07:10
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zerojayHeard it's supposed to be ready soon, but who knows.07:11
pupnikaccording to NYT this stuff is ongoing07:13
rm_youyeah i have that problem at work... we are rewriting search forms and we changed them from "pages and pages of text-boxes for each specific attribute related to a thing" and made it more google-like, in that now it's one box that just searches over all the same information as before, but all at the same time. turns out users are too stupid to understand how to search for things that way07:16
rm_youthey type in "dog" and complain because they get like 10,000,000 results, and the top one isn't "the lifespan of a cocker-spaniel with diabetes", and then complain that our search doesn't work07:17
rm_youso frustrating07:18
EdLinrm_you: my roommate types in everything to google as a question in a complete sentence. somehow he manages to get search results that make sense doing it.07:19
rm_youyeah, i find that works sometimes, not sure how... thinking they just filter like 75% of the search terms that are smaller than four letters :P07:19
EdLinthey don't filter "and"07:20
rm_youor basically, any word that is an article07:20
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EdLinthey used to do that, read on a google blog they no longer filter articles indiscriminately.07:20
rm_youwell, they DO technically filter "and"... it becomes part of the way they run the query, not technically a word in the search :P07:21
rm_youyeah, i remember when it was impossible to search for "the who" :P07:21
EdLinyeah, unless you put it in double quotes.07:21
pupnikhave you seen the 'new?' reading-level parameter you can give in advanced search?07:23
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pupnikbtw if you need product names with no google hits, i have a couple07:23
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ketashow sad... i thought i can buy truly good open phone in future, one that fits perfectly with my needs08:50
blackthorneisn't Android supposed to be that?08:54
blackthorneoh... you said good phone, sorry. never mind08:54
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ketaswell the answer seems to be in devices that are able to run several os'es easily... but that's not going to happen either08:58
blackthorneketas: there aren't many mobile devices that are able to run several OS's decently08:59
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blackthornewell, if there is one, I can't recall08:59
ketasbecause they are locked to one, yes... much more than regular computers09:00
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jonwilbah, still cant find anyone who can help me with testing stuff for my Cell Broadcast SMS work :(09:15
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TheJgood morningstar09:35
RST38h[Bonus points for sing the original CGA palette]09:35
jonwilI just thought of another reason why the N900 is far better than most of the Android handsets from HTC, Moto etc09:38
ketasgod, windows logo on nokia device09:38
jonwilUnlike HTC and Moto, Nokia complied with the GPL and other OSS licenses from day one09:38
jonwilHTC continues to release devices that violate the GPL (and then releases source code months later that may not actually match what was shipped on the device or may be incomplete or missing HW drivers)09:39
ketasnoone cares about that nowadays, it's sad09:39
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TheJanyone here using the powerkernel v46.. just wondering is it worth to update?09:40
sgevare there means to unlock a SIM to make it open sim?09:40
sgevand if so how can this be stopped09:40
sgevwith symbian phones i mean09:40
RST38hSIM or phone?09:40
ketasunlock a sim?09:40
ketaswhat you mean09:41
sgevso it works on different networks09:41
ketasthe sim?09:41
ketasor the phone09:41
sgevlike GSM sims09:41
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RST38hSIM cannot work on different networks09:41
RST38hSIM is tied to a network.09:41
ketaswell it can roam09:41
RST38hIt may work on other networks in roaming mode09:41
sgevRST38h: in roaming09:41
sgevbut i mean if you want to trace someone09:41
RST38hBut I guess this is not what this particular individual want09:41
sgevlike say you lost a phone09:42
sgevare there ways they can block you from trsacing it?09:42
RST38hsgev: Sorry, cannot answer your question, it does not parse.09:42
ketasi don't understand either09:42
sgevif a phone is list, like a GSM phone i mean09:42
sgevhow do you track it09:43
ketaslike a blacklist?09:43
sgevyes IMEI09:43
sgevcan the IMEI be changed or something?09:43
RobbieThe1stIf the original sim is in it, you can probably ask for the location. Several countrys have blacklists of IMEI numbers; a blacklisted IMEI won't be allowed on the network09:43
ketasyou want to change imei?!09:43
sgevnot i09:43
sgevcan people change it so they're not being tracked?09:44
ketashow this helps09:44
TheJput a tin foil hat on?09:44
ketasyou can switch a phone09:44
RobbieThe1stSomeone could turn it off, or remove the sim09:44
RST38hIMEI has nothing to do with SIM cards09:44
RST38hCards have IMSI09:44
sgevwell i mean tracking a phone and the sim09:44
sgevwhich is IMEI and IMSI09:44
sgevif they do turn it off, then?09:45
RobbieThe1stMind you, if someone wanted to sell a stolen phone, they'd probably sell it overseas09:45
RST38hsgev: Ok, your question is best to be answered at
sgevbut there is no way to circumvent the SIM to make it untraceable is there?09:45
ketasuntraceable sim?09:45
sgevthe oly possible way is they turn it off or remove the SIM09:45
RST38hBecause it is really difficult to understand what you are asking about, but Google may figure it out, eventually09:45
sgevim asking if im lost my phone09:45
sgevcan it be traced09:45
TheJuse a old phone thats imei is not registered, and an prepaid sim09:45
RST38hsgev: Yes, theoretically it can be traced by IMEI09:46
sgevand tracing the SIm too?09:46
RST38hsgev: Practically, you are out of luck because nobody will be doing this for you09:46
ketassim can be tracked too09:46
RobbieThe1stYou can install custom software for tracking it09:46
RST38hNobody will use your SIM card, so forget about IMSI09:46
sgevok and nobody can actually manipulate the inner workings of a SIm to make it untraceable can they09:46
RST38hThrowing away the SIM card is the first thing a thief would do09:47
ketaswell sim is supposed to be subscriber identifying module09:47
sgevyes but they wouldnt try to modify anything in there to make te SIM work and still not get caught?09:47
RST38hsgev: You can throw the SIM away and then it is untraceable09:47
sgevi get that09:47
RST38hSo, do not repeat the same question.09:47
sgevbut im asking if people do anything to the SIM to make it work that makes it untraceable?09:47
ketassim is id of customer09:47
sgevthere's no such means to do it is there?09:47
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ketasif you lost phone and it's still on with sim card, for example, my operator allows it's tracking09:48
TheJuse different prepaid sims in different phones, switch off after ransom call, wipe fingerprints and toss the phone.09:49
sgevyeah but if the guy dumps the sim you;re sol09:49
ketasi can log in and find it's location09:49
sgevand by the time they track your IMEI09:50
ketasthen, if they are stupid, you can track phone's usage with imei09:50
sgevyou'd be in who knows where09:50
sgevnot wortht the effort09:50
sgevwho does the tracking for the IMEI?09:50
sgevthe local telco or the phone brand?09:51
EdLinsgev: if you don't want someone to know where you are, don't use a bloody cell phone. Finish. The police and courts routinely use cell phone records to trace alibis, for example.09:51
EdLinsgev: imeis are registered by an international organiation.09:51
TheJin my coyntry its the police with the operator09:51
sgevthats nice, who tracks it?09:51
EdLinsgev: all cell carriers belong to it.09:51
ketasyes, police here too09:51
EdLinsgev: and get the records09:51
ketasyou can report stolen phone and give it's imei09:51
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JaffaMorning, all10:44
ketassun didn't rise today10:50
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jonwilAnyone here know how to dump the communications between the cell modem and the AP?11:25
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jonwilapplications processor that is11:25
jonwilnot the tower11:25
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psycho_oreosnot without the right hardware and a rogue cell :)11:34
MohammadAGsuppose an open source dialer was done11:38
MohammadAGcan we add 3G video call support?11:38
flailingmonkeymind would be blown11:39
flailingmonkeyby that you don't just mean XMPP/Jingle video cacll11:40
aptflailingmonkey meant: by that you don't just mean XMPP/Jingle video call11:41
MohammadAGI'm not sure what it's called11:41
jonwillooks like I can use tcpdump to dump the phonet messages11:42
jonwiland then analyze them with a wireshark plugin11:42
jonwilas for 3G video call, it depends on whether the cell modem firmware supports the lower level interfaces required11:42
MohammadAGit probably does11:43
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flailingmonkeythe google chat video calls work using an XMPP extension called Jingle. Skype... well I have no idea, but in both cases they're just having library calls made I bet11:44
MohammadAGthose aren't 3G video calls11:45
flailingmonkeythen we are talking about the same thing :) the real 3G video calls, I have no clue11:46
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flailingmonkeydoes maemo 5 currently support 3G video calls (with closed source dialer)?11:47
jonwilnope, it doesnt support 3G video calls11:48
Corsacbut you can do jabber video calls over 3G11:48
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trumeeCorsac, that is besides the point11:50
flailingmonkeyapparetly 3G video calls use or are based on 3G-324M?11:50
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kerio⁃/detach #11:54
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flailingmonkeywouldn't it need to get configuration for your 3G service provider, to use the right gateway,billing, etc11:58
phellarv11111111111111111111ider, to use the right gateway,billing, etc [10:58] [phellarv(+i)] [2:#maemo(+Cc111111:59
GNUtoo|laptopbtw is it possible to have an initramfs?12:00
GNUtoo|laptopfor instance I'd like to try the omap3 hardware encryption......on a rootfs12:00
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GNUtoo|laptopoops wrong channel12:01
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xkr47does anyone have some software for the n900 to automatically download the necessary stuff for agps to get going?12:05
MohammadAGAGPS works out of the box12:05
xkr47for example when I connect my usb it could download the latest info so I wouldn't have to connect over 3g later when I go out hiking12:05
xkr47now I activate some program using gps at home before I leave and then immediately turn it off12:06
xkr47maybe I should just write a small program that just starts gps briefly when connected to internet over usb12:07
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korhojoaxkr47: that works. you could also just use something like launching gpsjinni and then closing it half a minute later12:08
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flailingmonkeymy understanding of how agps works in the N900 is that it sent tower signal data to a server, and gets back the necessary gps "hints" for satellite stuff?12:08
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xkr47korhojoa, ok thanks12:09
korhojoaflailingmonkey: it does indeed do that. i do think it stores almanac info too12:09
korhojoaso it would lessen the use of the data12:09
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flailingmonkeywould be helpful for it to do so12:09
korhojoathe almanac is what you need for getting the fast lock12:10
korhojoathat's how some gps navigators connect within seconds of powering on12:10
korhojoatomtoms for instance "plug it in to your computer and enjoy fast locks for two weeks!"12:10
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chxtwo weeks? and then?12:11
jonwilwell finding out all the secrets of the GPS stack on Maemo is on my todo list :)12:12
flailingmonkeyright because without the almanac info, it takes a lot longer to get a gps fix12:12
alteregochx: then you have to plug it in again.12:12
chxhonestly, the most exciting and most disappointing gps are the new garmins12:12
korhojoahow so?12:13
chxi dont drive and i travel lots and i was very excited about cityXplorer --  but 10 usd/eur for a map per city that does not include updates? is this a joke?12:13
jonwilright now though I need to finish my emerge update world on Gentoo, then emerge wireshark, compile the wireshark plugin and load this packet capture12:13
korhojoatheir wristwatch models are interesting though12:13
korhojoachx: 'acquire' the maps online12:13
jonwilNokia Maps on the N900 is good enough for me as someone who doesn't drive12:13
chxas far as i am aware cityxplorer is the only offline gps that has public transportation info12:14
chxkorhojoa: tsk, tsk12:14
korhojoai'm now stuck without sygic since i got a new n900, so the imei changed12:14
jonwilsince I dont drive, the top-down view is fine12:14
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korhojoathere's a 3D view too12:14
chxjonwil: no public transport info in there.12:14
jonwilyeah that's the downside12:14
psycho_oreosthere's GeePS, which utilises Google maps, but it has its own flaws12:14
jonwilI want to see someone write an open source GPS app using OpenStreetMap map data12:15
jonwiland then overlay General Transit Feed Specification data (which is what Google uses for its public transit stuff) on top12:15
korhojoajonwil: AGTL uses openstreetmap data12:15
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alteregoColumbus will be use OSM12:16
alteregousing ..12:16
alteregoColumbus, what a fucking waste of my  time.12:16
korhojoahow so?12:16
chxpsycho_oreos: this? public transit? offline?12:16
alteregoI thought ... "Write a sleek GPS app" .. "It'll be mature and ready for the next device" ...12:16
alteregoFfffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Nokia!12:17
jonwilan open-source cross-platform GPS app with free map data that provides voice guidance and other important features would be a GREAT thing12:17
korhojoawell, just start over with WP7 (trollface.jpg)12:17
korhojoaheh. make it run on qt12:17
alteregoI spent a year learning Qt and developing Columbus ..12:17
psycho_oreoschx, yes that. Not sure on public transit, doubt it. Offline mode? won't work, data isn't being cached I bet12:17
korhojoaqt runs on wp7, right?12:17
alteregokorhojoa: no12:18
korhojoaor of it doesn't: make a qt lib for ot12:18
alteregokorhojoa: that seems to be one of Nokias agreements with MS, no Qt.12:18
korhojoaFUCK THAT12:18
jonwilI think a lot of it is simply that WP7 is .net only12:18
jonwiland there is no .net port of QT12:19
jonwileven if there was a .net port of QT it wouldn't make cross-platform-ness any easier12:19
ketasbe quiet and let microsoft do it's job, it will be gentle12:19
jonwilsince .net and regular C++ arent the same12:19
korhojoaketas: "bend over, bite your lip"12:19
jonwilI dont intend to sit there and take it from Microsoft12:19
alteregoI heard WP development was mainly silver shite ...12:20
jonwilI havent spent a cent on Microsoft software in years and I have no intention to start now12:20
jonwilThe only GOOD thing Microsoft makes is mice12:20
jonwiland even then they dont make the mouse I like anymore12:20
ketasmicrosoft doesn't make mice12:20
korhojoa"ahh, yes. feels great, doesn't it? trust me, closed source will keep this interaction hidden from everyone else"12:20
jonwilI have a mouse right here that says Microsoft on it12:20
alteregoI've got a well sexy Microsoft Mouse my gfs mum got me for xmas.12:20
dotblankjonwil, you know tMS's mice are actually logitech12:20
ketaskorhojoa: hahaha12:21
dotblankits just rebranded12:21
jonwilmaybe Microsoft has changed lately but I know that they used to make mice12:21
korhojoaketas: it'd be fun if it wasn't true12:21
jonwilor at least did the design and stuff and then had an OEM makes them12:21
korhojoajonwil: the original explorer series :312:21
alteregoI got one of those wireless arc mice. Really nice :)12:21
alteregoPerfect for my lappy.12:21
ketasi want phones able to run several oses12:21
dotblankthis ^12:22
jonwilI have a Microsoft Intellimouse Optical with the 2 side buttons and wish I could find another one exactly like it12:22
korhojoaget vmware on it12:22
jonwilthere is a lack of non-sucky mice around these days12:22
Venemo_N900interesting that the crappy nokia announcement that denounced meego actually boosted irc on both #maemo and #meego12:22
dotblankoh yea I know12:22
korhojoa"fuck it, we'll do it without them"12:22
ketasbut hw?12:22
ketasnokia makes good hw12:23
dotblankwe can build our own phones on the 8500 platform12:23
jonwilAll the mice out there are wireless (which suck), tiny notebook mice (also suck) or "basic"12:23
korhojoais that the dual cortex design?12:24
alteregoI think this wireless mouse is very good ...12:24
jonwilAll I want in a mouse is a decent optical sensor, nice large easy-to-hold form factor, standard USB HID interface (with no wireless) and nice big buttons (including the left and right side buttons)12:24
jonwiland a scroll wheel12:24
jonwilbut no-one makes the mouse I want12:25
* APTX has a razer mouse12:25
ketaswhat you think about new logitech wheel?12:25
jonwilIt was hard enough finding a keyboard I liked (ended up with a Logitec)12:25
ketastilts left and right12:25
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ketasi mean you scroll up and down, press down, left, right12:26
ketasvery useless12:26
korhojoaAPTX: which one? i've got the copperhead and the mamba12:26
APTXDiamondback 3g12:26
jonwilnever really liked Logitech mice so if MS have stopped making their own mice designs, I dont know where my next mouse will come from12:26
APTXgot it as a present12:26
korhojoai do like my trackball though.12:26
* APTX likes it12:27
korhojoaAPTX: same here, i got mine as presents12:27
* ketas tracks korhojoa's balls12:27
korhojoano! track my point!12:27
ketas---> .12:27
korhojoatrackpoints > trackpads12:27
jonwilI hate laptops with trackpads or worse still those little nubs12:28
korhojoatouchpads, whatever12:28
jonwilI would always use an external mouse with a laptop12:28
RobbieThe1stNubmouse FTW12:28
korhojoathe nubs are awesome.12:28
ketasheck, what to do with 18Mp camera in mobile phone12:29
jacekowskiketas: HD porn12:29
korhojoaketas: take hq upskirt photos12:29
ketas18Mp tiny lens, 1mm sensor12:29
korhojoawell then. we've defined why.12:29
ketassomething like that12:29
korhojoaadd a flash. alternatively, get someone to flash12:30
psycho_oreosdotblank, too bad that platform doesn't have hardware keyboard12:30
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ketaskorhojoa: hahaha12:30
ketasso women make best pictures?12:31
Venemo_N900dotblank: tell us when you built a phone. we may buy it :)12:31
ketasthey flash well12:31
* chx has a Lenovo T400s and have the trackpad disabled.12:31
flailingmonkeyI have really liked the Razer Orochi12:31
dotblankI think that might a big project12:31
chxThese trackpoints are really the best things evah12:31
RobbieThe1stTrackpad's good for one thing: Scrolling12:31
dotblankwould need help from say... all of you12:31
korhojoachx: pretty much, yes.12:31
RobbieThe1stI use my trackpad and trackpoint on my T50012:31
flailingmonkeywe'll just hack the shit Noki-doze phone and slap meego on it12:32
* alterego tries to think of fun things he can do with 2 N900s and an N95 8G12:32
flailingmonkeyWP7 is all about Silverlight, not even C#... so I don't even know wtf its about12:33
RobbieThe1stWell heck, if I've got to hack my phone, I'd want an x86-compatible chip at least...12:33
RobbieThe1stThen there's -no limit- to the stuff you could run12:33
psycho_oreosexcept it drains battery like hell and its more expensive12:33
korhojoaalterego: dgps + 3D video streaming and use the n95 as a reverse camera12:34
ketasi own older t6012:34
ketashas both point and pad12:34
ketassometimes point is good12:34
RobbieThe1stPsycho: Bigger battery, then!12:34
flailingmonkeylots of use of point and it starts to drift to one side12:34
ketaslaptop's clit12:35
RobbieThe1stRelease the clit for 30 secs, and it stops the drift12:35
flailingmonkeyi realized, but its frustrating that it happens at all12:35
ketasbuggy hw?12:35
psycho_oreosRobbieThe1st, and that would add even more cost to the device itself :) have a look at aava mobile12:35
korhojoait's because of how it detects movement12:36
RobbieThe1stI figure Intel's gonna be building them with Intel procs12:36
RobbieThe1stBut I mean... if I've got to hack it in the first place.12:36
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RobbieThe1stNot going to -buy- a locked-down phone anyway12:36
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alteregoIntel will, but other ISVs wont.12:38
maybeWTF old? :P12:38
RobbieThe1stAdmittedly, though... a 5" device that can run a full OS and x86-compatible windows games would be frigging sweet. Even with 4hrs of full-speed batterylife12:39
korhojoaRobbieThe1st: so a oqo?12:39
flailingmonkeylolol ogo12:39
RobbieThe1stNo clue what that is12:40
flailingmonkeygoogle will rescue you12:40
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DocScrutinizer~wtf oqo12:41
aptGee...  I don't know what oqo means...12:41
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RobbieThe1st Cool... but too expensive. :\12:43
RobbieThe1stI see what you mean though. Kubuntu mobile on that, though..12:43
ketasi want n90012:44
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RobbieThe1stSomething like that -might- be my upgrade/replacement when my n900 breaks12:46
RobbieThe1stProvided I can get a good OS on it12:47
RobbieThe1stHonestly, Maemo 5 on that'd be nice.12:47
psycho_oreostoo bad OQO doesn't have phone capability unlike n900 :D12:47
RobbieThe1stIt's got a sim, doesn't it? So it could probably be added via some custom firmware...12:48
RobbieThe1stwhat with that OSS GSM stack12:48
korhojoaoqos do voip, if nothing else12:48
RobbieThe1st'Course they do - any PC can12:49
psycho_oreosit has WWAN capability12:50
ketassomeone said wondered if he should buy 10 n900's so it will last until he dies12:50
ketass/said //12:50
aptketas meant: someone wondered if he should buy 10 n900's so it will last until he dies12:50
psycho_oreosactually that's optional that WWAN12:51
jaskai wouldnt expect gsm&co to be here a lifetime12:51
psycho_oreosn900 can operate without a SIM and plus with USB hostmode, you could still attach a different sort of modem up :p12:52
jaskausb->somefuturebus->someevenmorefuturebus->wtfmodem :)12:52
ketaswtfmodem :)12:53
ketasone that makes wwtffffwwtfff sounds12:53
jaskawireless transfer functionality modem! (backronym!)12:53
psycho_oreosUSB v3.0 has already been made but that has backward compatibility. I'm sure latter generations of USB should more or less also incorporate the same basic feature as the original USB v1.112:53
korhojoah-e-n, enable usb to light peak converter12:53
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flailingmonkeythat's old, usb to quantum-entanglement-modem12:55
ketasquantum field transceiver12:55
flailingmonkeya real wtfmodem12:55
psycho_oreosand whomever decides to buy 10 n900 will soon find out what a waste of money :) hopefully12:56
ketasi wonder if ballmer blowed elop or what12:56
RobbieThe1stLoads of money!12:57
jonwilEven if nothing ever changes, the software on the N900 is still up there as some of the best phone software I have ever used12:57
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RobbieThe1stPlus, Elop obviously believes in Microsoft12:57
dm8tbrbtw: I'd vote for 'Wireless Technology (from the) Future'12:57
jonwiland with the Community SSU, its going to get even better I hope12:57
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psycho_oreosits not like there won't be any more linux phones out there :) it just means that there will be a bit of a wait12:58
ketasi hope there's light in the end of the tunnel12:58
psycho_oreosplenty have been slain in the past12:59
jonwilI think there are too many vested interests against a linux phone for it to become mainstream or succeed13:00
jonwilCarriers dont like linux phones because of their openness13:00
MohammadAGsigh, can't get artist view working :/13:00
psycho_oreosthough android on the other hand with only linux kernel to prove its very small origins to linux itself seems to be selling like hot dogs.. I think the issue is that there are entities whom expect too much from a different sort of community in mind13:02
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aptpsycho_oreos meant: though android on the other hand with only linux kernel to prove its very small ties to linux itself seems to be selling like hot dogs.. I think the issue is that there are entities whom expect too much from a different sort of community in mind13:03
rzrhow much is n900 now ?13:03
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Jartza430e in finland at least :)13:03
* alterego starts drafting a hardware requirements specification.13:04
psycho_oreosare you also going to fund it? :p13:04
rzri am wondering how many unsold unit can remain ...13:04
rzrand about ophono will intel keep it ?13:05
haltdefso guys, any ideas what would cause the n900 to randomly swap left and right audio channels? it's really starting to irritate me :P13:05
otwieraczI have problem with my maemo in n810 - I can't install bigger apps beucase of not enough free space in / - can I move some files to internal 2GB card?13:06
rzrotwieracz: sure13:06
rzrotwieracz: use ln -fs :)13:06
rzrotwieracz: i had a script for that13:07
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psycho_oreoshaltdef, could be plenty, ranging from poor cable, to poor audio connectivity and maybe even the packages you've installed13:08
otwieraczrzr: I was thinking about whole /usr - but I heard that maemo won't boot if /usr isn't at rootfs.13:08
rzrnot /use13:08
rzrnot /usr , du /home 1st13:09
haltdefit happens with different earphones, randomly flips them, gives me a heart attack when it does .. only pckage I can think of is headphone daemon13:09
rzrthen /var/13:09
psycho_oreosand I probably wouldn't use ln -s on those directories, if anything I'd do binding mounts, but heck I don't even have N810, only N90013:09
otwieraczhome and var summary takes about 60megs.13:10
psycho_oreoshaltdef, it could be the jack that might be playing up, what about bluetooth headphones/headsets?13:10
DocScrutinizerjaska: 2G -> 3G -> LTE -> YouNeverLiveAsLong13:10
otwieraczusr 227MB...13:10
haltdefonly pair I have aren't noise cancelling and sound awful :P13:10
haltdefeverything's fine when I'm actively trying to fix it ofc13:10
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psycho_oreosdefine actively fixing13:11
haltdeftrying to make it happen, googling, asking you guys13:11
haltdefI have no idea what's going on :P13:11
psycho_oreosno tinkering with the audio jack in the process? like twisting the head of the jack whilst its plugged into the device?13:12
DocScrutinizerjaska: we got 2G since ~20 years now, and I can't see it vanishing any time soon13:12
aptpsycho_oreos meant: no tinkering with the audio jack in the process? like turning the head of the jack whilst its plugged into the device?13:12
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haltdefit'll switch them when the device isn't being touched13:13
ketashow this can change channels?13:13
ketasthe plug13:13
otwieraczrzr: maybe some dirs from /usr?13:13
psycho_oreosand the only pair that you have which doesn't have noise cancelling and sounding awful is wired or wireless (bluetooth)?13:13
DocScrutinizerjaska: 3G is here since some few years and will live on for long time13:13
haltdefI haven't tried bluetooth yet, might be worth a try13:14
psycho_oreosI'd give that a try if you do happen to have bluetooth headphone/headset with of course the usual speakers covering both left and right ear.. not those stupid one sided based headsets13:15
psycho_oreosif it does it there, then its a software issue, otherwise it might be a hardware issue13:15
haltdefyea I have a2dp ones13:15
rzrJartza: yea 400 EUR in france too13:15
DocScrutinizerjaska: after 3G we get LTE which is "Long Term Evolution", meant to be even longer perspective, and afaik has 3G compatibility as inherent feature13:15
* ketas imagines two one ear headsets paired to phone13:16
DocScrutinizerhaltdef: oh, your weird R/L issue again?13:18
haltdefn900 has been misbehaving a lot recently, random hangs, battery draining in standby .. considering it's *just* a phone and mp3 player now (got a viliv n5, pocketable win7) it's starting to upset me heh13:18
DocScrutinizergiven the insanely complex software side of maemo audio that will be a hard one to track down13:19
psycho_oreosit might even be linked to hardware faults13:20
psycho_oreoss/faults/faults or defects/13:20
aptpsycho_oreos meant: it might even be linked to hardware faults or defects13:20
haltdefdon't fancy going back to my xperia x1 if so :P13:21
DocScrutinizeron ALSA I'd suggest to plug in a type-file-plugin someway down the audio stream, close to "DAC" aka audio card, and see if the recorded file also has the switches, which would mean it's a mere sw issue13:21
DocScrutinizerthere are odds it actually is a I2S interface getting out of sync, which easily could cause L/R swap13:22
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DocScrutinizeror simply "somebody" swapping channels in didital or analog in codec chip13:23
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DocScrutinizerscratch the I2S note, AIC34xx is hooked up to CPU via MCBSP2 and I don't think that can swap channels as easily as I2S13:27
otwieraczrzr: O moved /var and /home to /media/mmc2, created symlinks /home → /media/mmc2/home and /var → /media/mmc2/home and it reboots whole time :(13:27
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otwieraczI can do something with reboot loop?13:30
rzrotwieracz: i would ln some specifict subdirs not the parents one13:30
rzrotwieracz: use flasher13:30
jaskadoc: not sure how long people will live.. but i was thinking at 2050-2060 timeline13:30
otwieracz„flasher”, what do you mean?13:30
ketasyou fucked it13:30
otwieraczketas: I know :(13:31
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DocScrutinizerI'm waiting for my coffee to take effect, so just a suggestion: (haltdef) we might check if AIC34xx registers can get read and dumped by I2Cget/I2Cdump, so we could track down when something fishy is going on with audio mixer setup causing this L/R swap13:33
haltdefI have no idea what that means :|13:34
otwieraczrzr: So, i must reflash it?13:35
DocScrutinizerAIC34 is the mixer aka audiocard/ADC chip. It has a friggin lot of registers to to do all sorts of fancy things. It is hooked to CPU via I2C bus for control. You might be able to read out the registers using i2cdump tool13:35
haltdefso get a dump from that when the swap happens13:36
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DocScrutinizerand compare to when no swap is active13:37
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DocScrutinizerotwieracz: HELL!! :-( Didn't we tell you EXACTLY that, just 12h ago?! DIDN'T WE??!13:39
DocScrutinizerust in case you forgot13:40
aptfrom memory, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence313:40
otwieraczDocScrutinizer: You tell about /usr.13:41
rzrotwieracz: u'll have too13:41
rzrotwieracz: but u can save files before13:41
rzrotwieracz: but you already move /home13:41
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otwieracz/dev/mmcblk0p1 shouldn't be destroyed?13:43
DocScrutinizerfair enough, sorry I forgot to mention /var13:43
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rzranyway i'll give u a list of *FILES* to be ln'ed13:46
rzrit's safer that linking dirs13:46
DocScrutinizerrzr: how's that safer?13:46
DocScrutinizerotwieracz: I suggest you read the few links mentioned in ~optification, and keep in mind Nokia never gave a F... about FHS13:48
DocScrutinizerthen you'll understand a lot better what can be done, what and why can't13:48
rzrbecause if some process tried to access some file in that dir and if it unmounted it wont find it13:48
rzrmount --bind could be an option too13:48
rzrotwieracz: next time check how big is /home13:49
DocScrutinizerthat's what I suggested13:49
otwieraczrzr: about 40MB.13:49
rzru can save some space in :13:49
rzrand other pdf files13:50
otwieraczHmm - maybe other way – I can't install apps on mmcblk0p1?13:50
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rzrotwieracz: fat3213:51
DocScrutinizermkfs.ext3 ftw13:51
otwieraczI have ext3.13:52
DocScrutinizerrzr: you are aware he's on diablo/N810?13:52
rzrdo i am13:52
rzrso i am13:52
DocScrutinizerfine :-D13:52
otwieraczI will be right back – dinner.13:53
otwieraczAnd ROM is downloading…13:53
MohammadAGI miss that song, it reminds me of the N95 :|13:53
DocScrutinizerI miss ~1500 records, reminds me of times when I was younger13:54
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DocScrutinizerlol? not funny14:04
rzrjust live in the past like we're doing w/ our n8x014:05
rzri wish i can install amigaos in it14:05
DocScrutinizerworkbench you mean?14:05
rzryes same stuff14:05
Triztfeels like we all will keep on living in the glorious past with the new deal and the end of Nokia14:06
otwieraczOK, let's flash14:06
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Triztrzr; ain't there a UAE for the 8x0?14:06
rzrTrizt: if there is a future , nokia will have to follow it , we wont follow nokia blindly14:07
DocScrutinizerLet's Dance14:07
rzrTrizt: i think i read some posts mention about it14:07
TriztI have it for my n900 and installed the kickstart rom I had, just haven't taken the time to setup workbench yet14:08
otwieraczHah, It's alive!14:08
rzri dont feel arrow keys can replace the big black joystick i had on my a50014:08
Triztrzr; should be possible to make some hack and use a joystick14:08
rzrTrizt: i guess u have all you need for14:08
rzrTrizt: and plug an external floppy disk :)14:09
Triztrzr; yeah :)14:09
rzrTrizt: i miss this sound too14:09
DocScrutinizerrzr: that's what h-e-n is for :-P14:09
Triztrzr; the WB I have a backup of has a bunch of PowerPC binaries too, so need to "wash" them out first14:09
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otwieraczWhatever – what about installing software in internal flash?14:10
rzrTrizt: maybe u can reuse those AIAB images14:10
DocScrutinizerotwieracz: should work14:10
DocScrutinizerlike on every other linux/unix14:11
rzri would hack something using /opt14:11
jonwilI have a problem, on the N900 chess app, on the start screen, there are dropdown lists to select player 1 and opponent. The dropdown arrow for these dropdown lists is corrupt.14:11
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rzrand use symlinks14:11
jonwilYet for every other app with the same dropdown list, its correct14:11
jonwilideas anyone?14:11
Triztrzr; don't know, but I really want to use the programs I had like AmIrc (still haven't seen any as good which uses GUI) and my dopus5...14:12
DocScrutinizerrzr: for sure the simplest nobrainer. That's why Nokia used that path :-D14:12
otwieraczDocScrutinizer: I can tell application manager where to install apps?14:12
DocScrutinizerbut there's mv, and ln14:12
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jonwilbah, why is this chess app screwing up :(14:13
DocScrutinizerjonwil: found .h?14:13
jonwilfound .h for what?14:14
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DocScrutinizeryeah that's my question :-)14:14
DocScrutinizer[2011-02-13 03:00:34] <jonwil> I found the ISI headers I wanted in the QT SDK download14:14
jonwilYeah, I did, I found header files for the cell modem14:15
jonwili.e. pn_location_isi.h and friends14:15
jonwilthe location header definatly matches the N90014:15
jonwilthey appear to be what was in the cellmo-headers and cellmo-icpr82-headers14:16
jonwilthat were in the repos14:16
jonwiland then removed14:16
jonwilI think they were removed because they contain various internal information14:16
jonwillike internal intranet URLs14:16
jonwiland email addresses14:16
jonwiland changelog entries14:16
jonwiland things14:16
jonwilbut they are definatly of value14:16
jonwiland I intend to use them14:16
DocScrutinizerWTF!!! FAILEWALE Nokia14:16
jonwilfor my reverse engineering anyway14:16
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: could you post me these files / URL / howto?14:18
jonwilThats the download I am using14:19
jonwilthe one I installed rather14:20
jonwilwith the .h files14:20
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MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/QtSDK$ find -name pn_location_isi.h14:20
jonwilbah, cant seem to solve this chess glitching :(14:24
DocScrutinizerjonwil: UMMM windows??? :-o14:24
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jonwilthat SDK has options for windows and linux14:24
DocScrutinizerfound it14:25
SpeedEviljonwil: Great - still looking for CBS voulenteers in places where they send CBs? Or did you work it out.14:25
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jonwilStill want someone to run my test thingo for CBS14:25
jonwilbah, stupid chess app14:25 WTF?!14:25
jonwiltried everything except a reflash to fix my chess app and no go :(14:26
jonwilthe glitching14:26
FIQ|n900jonwil: i checked it up14:26
FIQ|n900the arrows is glitchy here too14:26
jonwilchecked what up?14:26
SpeedEvilI will offer free nails, for anyone helping jonwils CBS efforts. (collect from my floorboards)14:27
jonwilok, so it might be a bug in the chess app14:27
jonwilI posted to maemo-developer with details of my CBS thing14:27
LjLwhat do you say, Jabber with gateways, or telepathy-haze, to use say MSN on OS2008?14:27
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DocScrutinizerdownloading 25MB of --- what THE HELL am I going to do with this?14:27
jonwilhmm, the chess app is open-source so I could try and fix the glitch14:27
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SpeedEviljonwil: Oh - you responded to my comments on maemo-devel - I was simply referring to stuff like you're doing, and hostmode.14:27
SpeedEviljonwil: And the bits of maemo that were closed and undocumented, but that released meego code has somewhat documented.14:28
jonwillike which bits?14:28
jonwilYou mean like ofono14:28
jonwilvs closed telephony stack14:29
FIQ|n900hrm, anyone knows some good site to upload a file >1GB for downloading?14:29
FIQ|n900yeah, though about that14:29
DocScrutinizerCBS? I guess you mean SMS-CB14:29
SpeedEvilIs it likely to be a popular file?14:29
jonwilyes, SMS-CB14:29
FIQ|n900but i don't think the person who will UL it would like it14:29
FIQ|n900SpeedEvil: no14:29
FIQ|n900just for me and a friend14:29
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FIQ|n900he uploads, i download14:30
SpeedEvilOr rsync between you14:30
FIQ|n900could work14:30
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SpeedEvilOr ...14:30
FIQ|n900...we are both on windows :P14:30
SpeedEvilShare your disk drive to the internet, then have him copy the file there.14:30
SpeedEvilFIQ|n900: seriously - you have windows FTP daemons.14:31
SpeedEvilOr even DCC the file.14:31
FIQ|n900yeah, FTP could work, as i said14:32
jonwilif I could only get this damn wireshark isi plugin to work properly on my gentoo box, I could examine this packet dump I made with tcpdump14:32
jonwilcontaining at least one confirmed Cell Broadcast SMS (confirmed via dbus-monitor)14:32
FIQ|n900but i tried to setup ftp on my machine (for own use) some time ago w/o luck14:32
FIQ|n900worked fine locally, but trying to connect remotely, just the login worked, then some error i was unable to fix occured14:33
dos1DocScrutinizer: looks like it's statically compiled graphical installer (that .run file) :P14:33
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SmithGuys, what IRC client you use on your n90014:34
SpeedEvilSmith: xchat14:34
FIQ|n900and irssi is available14:34
FIQ|n900if you prefer it14:34
otwieraczssh + shell + irssi14:34
DocScrutinizer51those IDIOTS offer binaries to install things??14:34
dos1DocScrutinizer51: Qt4 based, but not themed to systsem... it reminds me Windows ;o14:34
SmithI use qutim now14:34
SpeedEvilFIQ| scp?14:34
FIQ|n900as said14:34
FIQ|n900so no ssh (well, not easily at least)14:35
DocScrutinizer51I WANT A TGZ!14:35
dos1both with graphics, and with type of installation (binary)14:35
dos1DocScrutinizer51: did you try to download that ~500MB file?14:35
dos1maybe that's tgz14:35
dos1(that one without "(online)" ;))14:35
DocScrutinizer51what friggin 500MB14:35
SpeedEvilFIQ: wander over to ##windows, and ask how to transfer files between two machines on the internet14:35
FIQ|n900hrm, sounds like a good idea :p14:36
FIQ|n900since most people in here uses linux14:36
BCMMi haven't read the scrollback, but is the n900 involved at all? the SMB server in extras(-something) is pretty good, imho14:37
BCMMkinda want it for my desktop, actually, since it's so much easier than samba for the basic insecure file-serving setup14:37
BCMM(and there's nothing wrong with that; you just don't share anything that you wouldn't put on your HTTP server)14:37
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DocScrutinizerdos1: LINK14:39
aptdos1 meant: DocScrutinizer:
dos1DocScrutinizer: on the right side there is "Download version for"14:40
dos1that's also run file14:41
DocScrutinizeryeah!! >:-( and selecting linux32 gives me that bullshit14:41
DocScrutinizer~lart Nokia14:41
* apt gets a hotmal account and SPAMs Nokia14:41
DocScrutinizernot good enough!14:41
DocScrutinizer~lart Nokia14:42
* apt gives Nokia an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending Nokia to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple14:42
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Pillumi wanted to free up my root space14:45
Pillumso i deleted some locale files14:45
DocScrutinizerplease could somebody tar up that shit an up to RS?!14:45
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ^^^?14:46
Pillumbut i messed up my system14:46
Pillumnow i only see placeholder strings14:46
DocScrutinizertoo bad14:46
Pillumhow can i reinstall the locales?14:46
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DocScrutinizeror simply copy over from the disk image you made for sure, prior to such massive tweaks14:47
Pillumis there a simple command for it?14:47
Pillumlol unfortunately no14:47
DocScrutinizerit's just one command line, starting with >>flasher...14:48
LjLwish the keys of the N810's keyboard weren't so damned hard to press14:48
DocScrutinizersorry, I'm in a grumpy mood. Maybe somebody else has better advice14:48
Pillumpersonal thing or upset because of elop? :D14:49
DocScrutinizernah, general Nokia idiocy14:49
DocScrutinizeroffering a 500MB BINARY to install something14:50
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DocScrutinizerwhich I only need for some 10k of .h they thought was a brilliant idea to remove from their repositories14:50
Pillumman this doesnt work without a pc14:51
rzrDocScrutinizer: fell lucky they did not provide a vm disk image14:51
DocScrutinizerLOL yeah14:51
Pillumanyone has a dump of his locale strings folder?14:51
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DocScrutinizerdefine "his locale strings folder"14:52
rzrPillum: os ?14:52
DocScrutinizerrzr: fremantle I guess14:53
Pillumn900 pr1.314:53
DocScrutinizerthough unclear which version14:53
DocScrutinizersorry, no 1.3 here14:53
DocScrutinizerotherwise a pleasure14:53
Pillumwhy no 1.3? is there a newer update or didnt you want to flash 1.3?14:54
Pillumwhats the reason?14:54
* FIQ|n900 has pr1.3 but no dump of /usr/share/locale14:54
DocScrutinizertar- czf  /usr/share/locale ??14:55
Pillumwould you please dump it and upload it anywhere?14:55
DocScrutinizerthe syntax might need fixing14:56
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Pillumbtw do you guys know any good irc cliengt for n900 besides irssi14:56
Pillumirssi isnt showing some names for me14:56
merlin1991xchat :)14:56
ketasPillum: why?14:56
FIQ|n900tar -cvf /usr/bin/locale i guess you meant14:56
JaffaGAN900: Doing a few script tidy-ups so we can support multiple URLs against an article (and it shows the hostname). Do you still want an editor byline option against each one?14:56
ketaswhat do you mean irssi isn't showing some names14:57
Pillumisnt showing some names like my own name and other names if they use /me14:57
Pillumand the highligted names are in light yellow14:57
Pillumso i cant read them14:58
pahartikPillum: Wrong theme14:58
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: well, I suggested -z for  --compress, --uncompress              filter the archive through compress14:58
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: well, I suggested -z for  -z, --gzip, --gunzip, --ungzip              filter the archive through gzip14:59
FIQ|n900-cvfr even14:59
Pillumxchat is even less readable for me15:00
Pillumdark background with dark font color15:00
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DocScrutinizerPillum: that's easily(!) configurable15:01
Pillumi didnt find any settings for it :D15:01
DocScrutinizerduh, you didn't15:02
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FIQ|n900settings preferences colors15:02
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pahartikPillum: Edit "~/.irssi/default.theme"15:03
DocScrutinizermenu -> settings -> Preferences "[colors]"15:03
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javispedroACCESS is on the pdf you sent me yesterday about that LiMO platform15:04
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ???15:04
DocScrutinizermoo javispedro15:04
javispedroACCESS, current owners of BeOS, makers of the cancelled-before shipping "Access Linux Platform" which ... used Gtk+!15:05
Pillumso, does anyone upload the locale folder15:05
javispedromoo DocScrutinizer15:05
javispedroet all15:05
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: can you help out Pillum ? he needs /usr/share/locale of 1.315:06
javispedroit's copyrighted..15:06
JaffaPillum: Get it from the SDK?15:07
javispedroseems I also deleted anything other than esES15:08
DocScrutinizersimple, download and install ~5GB15:08
Pillumlol xD15:08
javispedroeither way I was going to get a list of packages that made that folder up, but saw that is stupid: all of the packages are named *-l10n-<lang> ;)15:08
javispedrofor ex skype's es_ES: "skype-ui-l10n-eses"15:09
javispedroso reinstalling those should help.15:09
DocScrutinizerPillum: see what I meant with "friggin idiots are publishing 500+MB binaries for installing"?15:09
Pillumyeah i see15:10
Pillumi want meego so bad now15:10
psycho_oreosjavispedro, curiously, why is locale copyrighted?15:12
psycho_oreosthey have il0n packages under extras-devel which adds extra entities iinm under locale15:12
* DocScrutinizer desparately googles and scans torrents for a file like ~/QtSDK.tgz15:12
javispedronot nokia.15:12
* psycho_oreos points to zh-{CN,HK,TW} packages, as well as Greek, etc15:13
DocScrutinizeror even /Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-20.2010.36-2-slim/usr/include/ISI/icpr82/pn_location_isi.h.*15:13
GNUtoo|laptopbtw about battery, there are calibration stuff in /dev/mtd115:14
RST38hheya javispedro15:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: AU SECOURS!15:14
GNUtoo|laptopis /dev/mtd1 meaning decoded or just the format?15:14
javispedroRST38h: saw the LiMO PDF?15:15
dos1DocScrutinizer: i'll upload it when it finishes downloading here :P15:15
dos1DocScrutinizer: you can also ask mickeyl to do that :D15:15
DocScrutinizerdos1: yo da man!15:15
RST38hjavispedro: Yes, have been drolling over it yesterday15:15
RST38hjavispedro: That is Samsung though, not LiMo in general15:15
javispedroRST38h: it seems to be the remains of the access linux platform15:15
RST38hjavispedro: With Rasterman working on it15:15
javispedroyeah, merged with EFL (but still very much Gtk+ centric...)15:15
DocScrutinizerdos1: so I gather I don't need to inform Mickey about jonwil's great finding15:16
dos1DocScrutinizer: yup ;) he is already amazed and excited: D15:16
javispedroRST38h: don't the later slides example remind you of something?15:16
RST38hjavispedro: they can be remains of bin Laden's own Akbar Linux platform, I do not give a shit as long as these guys deliver15:16
otwieraczIs there any easy way to create custom keymap for n810?15:16
javispedroRST38h: (hint: PilotMain ;) )15:16
RST38hjavispedro: They started the effort around the time Maemo5 was made public15:16
javispedroRST38h: ACCESS is the current owner of both the old PalmOS and also BeOS15:17
RST38hjavispedro: Ah you mean the state saving stuff... It is optional, and there is just a bunch of ways to implement it15:17
javispedroto me, it this really ships, I'm sold.15:17
javispedroHowever, I was already sold on the Emblaze15:18
javispedroand it mostly never happened.15:18
javispedroso the precedents are not good.15:18
RST38hjavispedro: Well let us wait and see15:18
RST38hjavispedro: A lot of Samsung stuff never happens. Their S60 handsets (the first wave) never happened.15:19
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javispedro(the Emblaze was a never-released ACCESS Linux Platform handheld, for the ignorant)15:19
GNUtoo|laptopjonwil, THANKS A LOT!!!!!! (for finding the headers)15:19
RST38hjavispedro: They are really different entities, releasing this stuff. Can't compare.15:19
javispedroRST38h: dunno, the platform looks pretty much the same to me.15:20
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Pillumah crap15:21
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I'd assign the title "hero of the day" to you another time, for another mega brilliant finding - alas topic is crowded right now15:23
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RST38hFujitsu unveils world's first MeeGo netbook, world barely notices15:29
DocScrutinizerto whom it may concern: ancient N900 ISI headers found by brilliant RE hacker jonwil during archaeological research. Experts say it's a giant step ahead to free OS on N900 BB5 based phone15:29
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Pillumwat is this ISI header about?15:29
DocScrutinizertalking to the modem15:29
jonwilThese are the headers you need if you want to talk to the cell modem15:29
Pillumah cool15:30
RST38hPillum: It is written in ancient egyptian and lists hardware registers!15:30
Pillumjonwil: where did youfind the headers?15:32
jonwilIn the Nokia QT SDK15:32
ketascan n900 finally be 100% open source?15:32
jonwilnope, its nowhere near 100% even with MeeGo15:32
jonwilGPU is still closed15:32
jonwilas is BME15:32
jonwiland some other important bits15:33
ketasumm what that bme meaned, again15:33
apti guess bme is
FIQ|n900infiltrate nokia, take the source and flee!15:33
DocScrutinizerI'm hoping for a frustrated Nokia employee to do this for us15:33
FIQ|n900even some MS guy managed to infiltrate it!15:34
Pilluminfiltrate nokia, kidnap elop, profit15:34
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RST38hHow do you profit from Elop? Even Microsoft lost money on Elop15:34
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: BZZZ wrong! that's what they told you15:34
eichisomeone tried maemo5 n900 with f-spot? i thought, it detects the DCIM folder defaults structure. but maybe, not the subfolders of this?! someone has an idea15:35
DocScrutinizerRST38h: however the question remains valid15:36
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: An Elop in the house causes trouble and cost money15:36
DocScrutinizerand don't think anybody will pay for him to get him back, now that mission accomplished15:37
Pillumi really need the locales :(15:37
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RST38hDoc: Who knows, maybe he will conduct a merger with Microsoft, and every single Nokia investor will get his share of the payola15:38
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RST38hDoc: Hell, poor disenchanted Texrat will be able to hang on a golden cord!15:39
RST38hDoc: After all, Nokia does not exist to make you Linux handsets, it exists to make investors money, whatever the method15:40
BCMMi'm somewhat surprised about the MS shares thing - is there no legal conflict of interests with him making a deal with MS?15:41
BCMM(i mean, with the microsoft shares he holds)15:41
RST38hBCMM: Have to be a corporate ethics lawyer to determine that15:41
DocScrutinizerRST38h: what they did so far is the maximum without awakening EU control instances15:41
RST38hBCMM: So, you are asking wrong people15:41
DocScrutinizerthere will be no merger15:41
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RST38hDoc: Which is also ok with me: will provide entertainment during long, boring work days15:42
EdLinthey don't need a merger, elop is busy replacing nokia executives with microsoft employees and firing everyone lower than that on the foodchain.15:43
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DocScrutinizerthe hidden takeover already half done15:43
Pillumwho has pr1.3 installed?15:43
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG has15:44
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PillumMohammadAG: are you there?15:44
RST38hDunno, I think this is unnecessary fear and loathing15:44
SpeedEvilIMO - employing very rich people that don't actually need to worry about their paycheck is a bad idea generally.15:44
SpeedEvilAt least at a managment level.15:44
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SpeedEvilThey don't give a shit about performance bonuses, or ...15:44
SpeedEvilThey're in it to make themselves look good.15:44
SpeedEvilWhich is no the same as making the company look good.15:45
RST38hRather than continue weeping, kicking Finnish corpse, why not start looking at alternatives and how Maemo experience can be brought to them, for cheap?15:45
EdLinRST38h: what, you seriously think they're going to make meego devices now? We'll be lucky if they make one of them.15:45
RST38hEdLin: I do not think. I analyze. Lemmings "think".15:45
LantiziaHey I'm not going to add to the anti-nokia hysteria which I'm sure has gripped here for days now... but I am curious if maemo (not meego) will continue without nokia support and perhaps device-neutral in it's support... maybe even incorporated in to debian mobile.15:45
EdLinRST38h: for making a mobile phone, you need factories, workers, millions of dollars. Got a plan?15:45
Pillumrofl thread at tmo " cant play videos"15:45
Pillumreminds me of the guy who wanted a sex app15:45
RST38hEdLin: Yes. It starts with not making a mobile phone.15:45
EdLinok then, mobile device.15:46
RST38hPlenty of these around. Many with Linux base platforms too.15:46
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RST38hThe UI you are using on your N900 is after all a bunch of apps, with some backends.15:46
EdLinon my n81015:46
EdLinthough my hd2 runs meego15:47
LantiziaBasically I'd love to rip the Nokia tag off my N900, see it as raw and decent hardware... and know Maemo will continue (as a debian initiative) for years to come for it and other mobile devices... how likely is that?15:47
RST38hSo, the main question would be how to implement the bare minimum of these apps and backends and run them on an arbitrary Linux base.15:47
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, the copy of that QtSDK.tgz is the same as the one hosted here or different?
SpeedEvilLantizia: I note that there are still people developing for the openmoko devices.15:48
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RST38hLantizia: it is not.15:48
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: where on that URL did you find a tgz?15:48
LantiziaSpeedEvil, sure but OpenMoko still exists in a basic form15:48
SpeedEvilLantizia: The n900 sold several orders of magnitude more. If compelling open hardware does not come out.15:48
SpeedEvilLantizia: No, it doesn't.15:48
SpeedEvilLantizia: The company basically died with a large pile of unsold phones.15:48
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, none, I guess it isn't :) just trying to find the header file via google and found a pastebin link which detailed that URL15:48
* Jaffa would love a smaller, faster version of the N900 running a bug fixed and less power hungry version of Maemo 5.15:48
lardmanX-Fade: ping15:49
SpeedEvilLantizia: n900 sold _lots_ more phones. And will have a development community for some years.15:49
LantiziaRST38h, so you think Meego is dead and Maemo 6 is not going to be brought back?15:49
EdLinmy n810 still has the occasional new software for it.15:49
* Jaffa wonders about a mini-group going optimisation crazy in the CSSU15:49
RST38hLantizia: dunno15:49
psycho_oreosmeego isn't dead, meego on nokia might be15:49
aptmethinks ssu is
LantiziaSpeedEvil, right but I don't want a development community that's just for one phone... it has a better chance of lasting MUCH longer if it was like android... device neutral.15:50
Jaffapsycho_oreos: MeeGo isn't dead *yet*, but it won't have long to survive unless another major consumer electronics manufacturer gets onboard in a big way...15:50
RST38hJaffa: It is totally possible to implement Maemo5-like apps in QtQuick, on top of the same current Meego or maybe Android15:50
EdLinpsycho_oreos: yeah, meego is going to live on at intel probably, they say they're planning to bring it to real mobiles - automobiles.15:50
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RST38hJaffa: As longas you can compile Qt there15:50
DocScrutinizerJaffa: please teach infobot/apt about CSSU15:50
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, guess I'll be interested in a copy of that :) wonder if dos1 has already finished uploading15:50
aptit has been said that cssu is
SpeedEvilLantizia: For it to be device neutral, there need to be devices for it to be neutral over.15:51
SpeedEvilLantizia: And there basically aren't.15:51
RST38hJaffa: It will not have all the backend stuff that comes with Maemo,but so what15:51
psycho_oreosJaffa, though it has Intel and potentially some interest elsewhere.. one was also notably from fujitsu15:51
LantiziaSpeedEvil, sure any ideas what is a good thing to target?15:51
SpeedEvilLantizia: At least not over phones.15:51
PillumSpeedEvil: do you have pr1 3 installed?15:51
SpeedEvilLantizia: Tehre are no good things to target.15:51
Jaffapsycho_oreos: How many devices do Intel manufacture and sell a year?15:51
Jaffapsycho_oreos: One netbook does not make MeeGo a core plank of their strategy like it was for Nokia15:51
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psycho_oreosEdLin, yeah was telling that to Lantizia, well somewhat15:52
SpeedEvilLantizia: There are no phones that you don't have to root (phones that you have to root means that they may go away next fw upgrade)15:52
LantiziaI was never interested in MeeGo... my interest has always lied in a ubuntu and/or debian initiative for a debian-based mobile orientated distro for 1 or more devices15:52
LantiziaAnd Maemo has the most talent to help lead that15:52
psycho_oreosJaffa, no it doesn't but its too early to decide whether or not will meego die. I'm sure given time with the project being on schedule, it may get adopted elsewhere15:52
EdLinSpeedEvil: you don't have to root webos phones, fwiw.15:53
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PillumSpeedEvil: Lantizia psycho_oreos EdLin: do you have pr1 3 installed?15:53
EdLinPillum: on my n810? no. ;-)15:54
SpeedEvilEdLin: Ok - there are some other phones - but none as I understand it with open 3D and other drivers.15:54
psycho_oreosPillum, yes, and if you're asking about locales, I heard it was copyrighted, not really willing to risk sending a copy15:54
LantiziaI don't wanna see this a Nokia N900 with two dead OS's lol... but rather an OMAP3 based embedded device with lots of OS choices including a decent and regularly updated debian-based one... will rip the Nokia tag off :P15:54
Lantiziaor melt it off - whatever15:54
EdLinSpeedEvil: webos uses SDL for 3d, and even can run x11 sdl because it has a standard glibc and other linux frameworks android doesn't.15:54
SpeedEvilEdLin: AIUI, no accel support. I may e wrong.15:55
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EdLinSpeedEvil: probably right, I haven't kept up with webos x11 development after I sold my pre because I needed a world phone.15:55
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, fyi: <-- it seems that maybe relevant15:56
psycho_oreosdos1, o.O thanks15:56
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LantiziaOK... lets say _none of this happened_ what was going to become of Maemo even if we did have a MeeGo Nokia phone... was a Maemo 6 still on the cards?15:57
ArkenoiActually Nokia has enough resources to make any its phone completely open (replace or buy out any component for which the manufacturer is not willing to release public specs peaceful way) and it would be almost unnoticeable expense compared to overall mobile phones budget. It is just not willing to.15:57
EdLinLantizia: no, why are you asking?15:58
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LantiziaEdLin, well now we know we are likely to loose Nokia support, is that likely to be re-evaluated?15:58
ArkenoiSo all "we cannot do that, we do not own it" is just bullshit15:58
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Arkenoithey kept weening this way since GEOS days, though they could buy GEOS out completely for a change15:59
EdLinLantizia: sure, we could make a new phone os for the n900. They tried doing that with mer on the n810 to update it to have the latest maemo functionality, didn't work out all that well what with so much of the hardware still being closed.15:59
DocScrutinizerthere are some arcane .h in
DocScrutinizerfor those who are interested16:00
JaffaEdLin: And because a working OS is nothing without the apps.16:00
LantiziaEdLin, I don't see the need for a "new" os... why fork what is already started?16:00
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JaffaThe best bet for the N900 is for lots of people to get stuck into the Community SSU, so we can polish the edges and meet our usecases better.16:00
LantiziaJust let Maemo continue with a proper constitution, no company behind it.16:00
EdLinn900 (and n810, etc.) forever!16:01
EdLinat least, until our devices die.16:01
LantiziaI for one NEVER liked the idea of rpm's - sorry old debate I know, but that's just me.16:01
LantiziaEdLin, not if eventually other devices can be supported by Maemo16:01
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LantiziaMaemo certainly has more going for it than OpenMoko and ANGSTROM distro's16:02
EdLinLantizia: if it's not a phone, nobody will buy it, and if it is a phone, better have big pockets brother.16:02
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LantiziaEdLin, I don't care about it being shipped on phones... I'm on about an alternative OS for your mobile device, Maemo could be the lead in that role.16:02
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EdLinLantizia: I'd like maemo on my hd2, it'd beat a half-baked meego which is what I can do now of that nature.16:03
LantiziaAnd with dalvik apps on it, you wouldn't even need to worry about apps working on it from big publishers so much16:03
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LantiziaBasically what I'm saying is if Maemo is still "tied" in some way to Nokia, lets untie it... make it completely independant and community ran16:04
EdLinLantizia: now you got me a bit interested, maemo on htc winmo/android devices sounds like an interesting project.16:04
LantiziaWe can be the underdog OS for people who want a true GNU/Linux mobile OS16:04
Pillumso, if you dont want to sent locale, is there a way to build locale-archive by your own?16:05
Lantiziaespecially for debian/ubuntu lovers who don't want crappy ipkg packages16:05
EdLinLantizia: incidentally, I'm not just saying that because I have an hd2, but because it's a good target for an alternative OS. Namely, there are dozens of htc devices with similar hardware, and secondly, there's a large community on XDA that support alternative OSs.16:05
Lantiziathis doesn't have to be the end, it can be the beginning!16:05
kerionah, it's the end16:05
EdLinI'm not going that far, but it could be interesting.16:05
keriomaemo *does* suck16:06
Lantiziakerio, like fuck it does16:06
* EdLin kicks the troll16:06
apti guess busybox is the swiss army knife of embedded linux.  It combines tiny versions of many common UNIX utilities into a single small executable. It provides replacements for most of the utilities you usually find in GNU fileutils, shellutils, etc.  See
apti guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence316:06
kerioand those are the two things that popped in my mind right now16:06
Lantiziakerio, nothing wrong with busybox on an embedded device...and optification is more of a need of the N900 hardware NOT maemo16:07
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DocScrutinizerkerio: you meant16:07
aptmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils16:07
keriono, it's a stupid shit that was done because nobody at nokia could spend 20 minutes changing the boot scripts to only use /bin16:07
keriolike FHS specifies16:07
kerioit's most definetely not a need of the n900 hardware16:08
keriothere's also the stupid mydocs, the weird virtual directories that collect media files16:08
DocScrutinizerLantizia: BS, optification is an evil heritage from times where they didn't think about it16:08
Lantiziakerio, name me a more compliant GNU/Linux OS that has the popularity of Maemo for mobile devices?16:08
LantiziaI double *ucking dare you lol16:08
kerioi'm not required to16:08
keriomaemo sucks16:08
kerioi only use it because everything else sucks much more16:08
keriobut it *does* suck16:08
Lantizialoving your pessimism16:09
keriowhy isn't the n900 using the hw codec for the media player again?16:09
DocScrutinizerLantizia:that's pragmatism16:09
DocScrutinizerand I agree 100% with kerio16:10
alteregoMeh, some of it is crap, a lot of it, platform wise, is pretty cool.16:10
kerioalterego: oh of course16:10
EdLinLantizia: see this? let's get maemo as another subforum here, under (or above ) meego
alteregoIf we could have a maemo meego hybrid, I'd be well chuffed.16:10
Lantiziathere are crap things with everything damn it!16:10
Lantiziadoesn't mean everything sucks16:10
kerioyes. yes it does.16:10
keriosturgeon's law doesn't make stuff exempt from sucking16:11
DocScrutinizerlife sucks16:11
* DocScrutinizer sucks16:11
DocScrutinizercya :-D16:11
LantiziaEdLin, indeed I'd back that16:11
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psycho_oreosmaemo in its stock form does suck, but once its been converted to run on other forms, those limitations won't be a huge factor. Have a look at nitdroid and meego for example. All in their own partitions. If the base structures were changed to make way for improvements, its not impossible16:13
kerioyeah, we'd need a new build though16:13
kerioMohammadAG: provide a build of maemo that doesn't suck plzkthx16:13
Lantiziatrue but this new build doesn't need to leave the Maemo name behind16:14
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EdLinis maemo (tm) nokia or someone else?16:14
Lantiziaespecially if Nokia are willing to part with the Maemo community anyway16:14
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JaffaEdLin: Maemo is a Nokia trademark. However, they've given the ownership of to the community and have blessed the Community SSU as a means of delivering core OS updates.16:15
EdLinLantizia: they might not be comfortable with that, even if it's open source intelectual property, it is intelectual property.16:15
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EdLinJaffa: that's cool, I like the idea of the community ssu.16:15
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JaffaAlready two closed bits have been replaced with open source, portrait-supported replacements. A good few bugs fixed and patches included to improve Modest's functionality.16:16
kerioit would also be good to have a decent swap algorithm and a base system that doesn't have half of the memory in swap at boot16:16
LantiziaCool sounds like it's on its way then16:16
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Jaffakerio: Indeed. Some low-level and framework optimisations would be cool16:17
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Jaffakerio: Err, you can do that already...16:17
keriono, not completely remove them16:17
JaffaYou want to half remove them?16:17
keriono, i mean16:17
kerioyou can put an empty video there16:17
keriobut it'll still try to load it16:18
kerioand so it'll still require FUCKING PULSEAUDIO16:18
JaffaThere's an ini file16:18
kerioat boot time16:18
javispedroI'm sure you can probably kill the event.d file16:18
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Jaffakerio: Oh, so now you're objecting to the design of Maemo using open source software for audio...?16:18
Jaffakerio: Perhaps you could clarify your rants...16:18
LantiziaI rather think a Debian Mobile base would still be handy for a Maemo flavour, a Debian flavour, a Ubuntu flavour... but apps work on them all16:18
kerioJaffa: one of the reasons we need /usr/ in the root partition is that the boot requires pulseaudio16:19
keriobecause of the hands16:19
kerioalso in general i object to the design of Maemo using *pulseaudio* for audio16:20
Jaffakerio: What would you use instead? Taking into account all the routing stuff needed for A2DP, speakers, headphones & call speaker?16:21
kerioJaffa: alsa16:21
Lantiziapulseaudio is fine16:21
Lantiziaand it already uses alsa too16:21
keriothe n900 takes more cpu for pulseaudio than for mafw-decoder16:22
kerioit makes no sense16:22
Jaffakerio: And you've got an ALSA package which does the same and takes less CPU?16:22
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kerioso... yeah16:23
javispedroso... no, mixing wasn't even in Jaffa's requeriment list =)16:23
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Jaffakerio: An API compatible, feature-complete ALSA replacement of PulseAudio for the CSSU would be great.16:25
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* javispedro partially disagrees that changing something that deeply embedded would be great for a CSSU16:25
Jaffajavispedro: Well, I think my requirement of feature-complete and API compatible would rule it out16:26
RST38hSame here16:26
LantiziaeBay have free listing today... so considering packing my N900 in for Android16:26
RST38hYOu do not want to break the system, just fix the broken parts16:26
EdLinLantizia: I thought you were mr. optimistic?16:26
javispedroJaffa: this is can of worms I do not want to open :(16:26
JaffaLantizia: Weren't you just talking about new OSes and community development?16:26
LantiziaSure I was... only if I know it's going to happen16:26
Jaffajavispedro: RST38h: Agreed. But if I'm living with my N900 for ages to come I'd like it's battery to be a bit better.16:27
LantiziaOtherwise I'll trade Nokia for Google16:27
Jaffajavispedro: RST38h: I'm sure some low-level devs would enjoy doing some profiling and fixing ;-)16:27
Pillumcan someone please send me the output of 'locale -a'16:27
dos1how it came that i didn't know about community SSU? :o16:27
RST38h[whispers] For Tentacled's sake, DON'T try to keep him from it.16:27
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RST38hJaffa: Only if you know exact names of these devs16:28
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RST38hJaffa: Because stuff being open does not mean somebody is willing to work on it16:28
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MohammadAGkerio, a build of maemo?16:28
psycho_oreosdos1, word is passing around more slowly than expected16:29
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Pillumcan someone please send me the output of 'locale -a' please?16:29
JaffaRST38h: You like your low level hacking, don't you? ;-p16:29
kerioMohammadAG: combined+vanilla, yeah16:29
MohammadAGMaemo cannot be built or destoryed, it can only change from one form to another, such as WP716:29
kerioexcept with no pulseaudio, no closed bits and good partitioning16:29
RST38hJaffa: I like being paid and being with my family16:29
MohammadAGRST38h, you have a family?16:30
MohammadAGI always thought you were 19 or sth16:30
LantiziaAny ideas what would be the cleanest way of removing the Nokia tab-badge on the N900?16:30
JaffaLantizia: Dremel16:30
RST38hJaffa: Also like working on my own stuff. Hacking random pieces of community code is much lower priority16:30
LantiziaJaffa, you've done it?16:30
Pillumpsycho_oreos: thank you very very much, sir ;)16:30
* psycho_oreos thought of metal filer16:30
RST38hMohammad: No, I live in a dungeon etc.!16:30
JaffaLantizia: No16:30
Lantiziapsycho_oreos, ah but would it be smooth?16:30
MohammadAGRST38h, ah, that's believable16:30
psycho_oreosPillum, its modified, there's ja_JP as well as zh_{CN,TW,HK} on top of the standard one16:30
RST38hJaffa: Something is telling me this order of priorities is pretty standard16:30
psycho_oreosLantizia, no, but then you can probably get wet sanding paper to smooth it16:31
JaffaRST38h: <shrug/> People scratch their own itches.16:31
psycho_oreosLantizia, and no that was just a wild guess, I've not done it before on mine16:31
Pillumpsycho_oreos: but its from n900?16:31
RST38hJaffa: Yes, but it should be a pretty sore itch16:31
psycho_oreosPillum, from n900 with a few added locales16:31
JaffaRST38h: Not having a phone which I can trust if I'm not near a power point/wifi all day is a pretty big itch.16:32
RST38hJaffa: I.e. your qualitative analysis is ok, but quantative may be flawed :)16:32
Lantiziaunfortunately I think the Nokia word-mark is taller than the tab outcrop itself... so you've still have a bit left behind16:32
Pillumah ok thx16:32
RST38hJaffa: It can be fixed by buying a different phone.16:32
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JaffaRST38h: Which one? Bearing in mind all my other requirements...16:33
Jaffa(which you don't know, but could guess at)16:33
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* alterego sighs, the annoying thing is I think the MS Nokia thing will be a success.16:34
RST38hJaffa: I am currently considering the Streak16:34
alteregoBig lose for the FOSS world16:35
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EdLinRST38h: the streak is pretty bad, actually.16:35
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RST38halterego: Independently from how good it is for FOSS, it will most likely tank16:35
EdLinRST38h: tho it does have good battery life, and is *big*16:35
MohammadAGalterego, they'll succeed for the first time16:35
RST38halterego: Unless Americans miraculously start buying WP7 phones16:35
MohammadAGactually bbl16:35
alteregoI think they may16:35
RST38hEdLin: So, why is it bad?16:36
EdLinRST38h: dell puts horrible OEM customizations on it, for one thing.16:36
RST38halterego: With much friendlier and feature complete Android selling in the identical form factor? No way.16:36
alteregoAfter reading the awful US blogs, the general opinion from normal users etc seem to actually welcome the move.16:36
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RST38hBlogs, as we know, do notconvert to sales:)16:37
RST38hEdLin: Apparently, their 2.2 Android update is much better16:37
EdLinalterego: someone on engadget noticed a disturbing amount of those comments were made by astroturfers with a microsoft network facebook login.16:37
EdLinthat's right, trolling for dollars.16:38
alteregoOh, interesting. But then a lot of people use hotmail :P16:38
EdLinthe latest corporate position16:38
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alteregoI use hotmail ffs.16:38
jacekowskihotmail sucks16:38
jacekowskiit's for microsoft wimps16:38
dos1yup, Windows Phone 7 is not known by normal users, so they can't really say anything about it :D16:38
RST38halterego: Still, maybe Nokia and/or MS come up with some magic trick to sell their stuff, dunno16:39
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dos1some of them are even thinking that it's all about Windows Mobile16:39
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ZogGhaha i have insider of some game porting company for mobiles =)16:39
RST38halterego: Push it onto powerless corporate users, or tie it into desktop Windows16:39
dos1or even Windows 7, that one from PCs ;)16:39
RST38halterego: Or offer it for 1 cent with contracts16:39
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* javispedro notes smartphone pricing is becoming agressive as of lately16:40
RST38hjavis: too many virtually identical models, it has become a commodity16:40
JaffaPrice is the only differentiator.16:41
RST38hSee WiinMo phones of 5 years ago, replace WinMo with Android, multiply sales by 100, and you get what we have now16:41
RST38hMany many relatively cheap, identical, mediocre handsets16:41
EdLinyou can get an n900 new for $350 in the us, cheap for an unlocked unsubsidized smartphone. Only thing cheaper is some midrange android phones with worse hardware like the lg optimus one.16:41
javispedroRST38h: Android is the only mostly responsible for it; previously a sub$100 "phone" with crappy Symbian-clone (aka Nokla) or WM hand't a change. Now one with Android does16:41
javispedro*chance :(16:42
RST38hThat Finn with his pants-pissing remark was rude but on target16:42
RST38hjavispedro: Nokia is also making many cheap S60-based handsets16:42
javispedroyeah, but I think that's effect (they're doing that as of lately), not cause16:43
RST38hmaybe both...16:45
javispedroat this point my opinion is like alterego's, they won't die. but they will never see the same market volume they see these days.16:48
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RST38hfor a company of this size, dying actually requires some effort :)16:49
javispedrothe future in smartphones looks the same as the past. there will be a OS duopoly with one of them being Apple-like/1990'sPalm-like (OS-HW tied) and the other one being Android-like/1990'sWM-like16:49
keriobut nobody liked WM16:49
jacekowski4 years ago nokia was only company selling smartphones16:49
jacekowskinow they are smallest player16:50
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jacekowski2000 years ago there was huge roman empire16:50
jacekowskinow there is small meaningless country left16:50
EdLinjacekowski: we still eat spaghetti16:51
jacekowskithen there was polish empire16:52
GAN900OMAP4 from LG.16:52
jacekowskisame shit again16:52
* GAN900 cries.16:52
jacekowskiand later british empire16:52
RST38hjacekowski: I am sorry, who told you they are the smallest player?16:52
jacekowskisame shit again16:52
jacekowskiRST38h: facts16:52
RST38hGAN: Kneel before your new Korean overlords16:52
jacekowskiRST38h: they sold less symbian phones in q4 than iphones/androids16:53
JaffaGAN900: ?16:53
Per_n900The future of smartphones is probably that smartphones will be your only computer, and the ability to dock it to a monitor and keyboard/mouse, and with an interface that changes to fullblown desktop when docked, kind of like motorola atrix. Atleast, thats what I think :)16:53
RST38hGAN: Bring some gold too16:53
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EdLinPer_n900: the n900 has a video output too. ;-)16:53
RST38hPer: In the future, the smartphone will be intergal part of your gas mask16:54
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EdLinjust add a bluetooth keyboard, and voila, instant open source atrix. without the locked bootloader.16:54
RST38hjacekowski: Do you know the difference between words "small", "smaller", and "smallest" in English?16:54
keriothe n900 needs hd out16:54
RST38hShould I explain?16:54
EdLinkerio: I knew *someone* would mention that. ;-(16:55
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FIQliten mindre minst!16:56
RST38hMeanwhle: Pandora Files For IPO16:56
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EdLinRST38h: pandora is the biggest spyware in the Android market.16:56
Per_n900FIQ: exakt.16:56
EdLinRST38h: they put permissions up the wazoo for that one, and send all your data for who knows what.16:56
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FIQwhy is it there then?16:57
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FIQ(i.e. not removed)16:57
FIQoh, ofc16:57
FIQgoogle loves sending of EVERYTHING16:58
EdLinFIQ: because google doesn't care, as long as they have done their duty and let the sheeple click on the "warning" just like an activex warning, and you know how effective those were.16:58
FIQthat's why16:58
JaffaGAN900: Never had an LG phone, but if they can do a good, open, MeeGo experience in something like an N900 but better, with Qt, bring it on?16:58
* javispedro has only two companies in mind at this point that could put out a Maemo-like experience..16:59
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Jaffajavispedro: ?17:00
javispedronot LG :)17:00
Juozapasname it17:00
rangeYeah, but Samsung already has Bada and HP has WebOS :)17:00
Jaffajavispedro: Palm & Samsung spring to my mind. But Samsung's too successful with Android17:00
javispedrorange: bingo =)17:00
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javispedroJaffa: also bingo :)17:00
JaffaWebOS looks very interesting.17:01
rangeBut still rather closed.17:01
JaffaI've started tentatively exploring whether or not our friends now at HP might be interested in offering Maemo devs a device programme17:01
EdLinrange: what do you mean, webos offers a root prompt, which is more than you can say for an unhacked android phone.17:01
rangeThat's my biggest issue with Nokias move: the 180° turning.17:01
RST38hJaffa: Nice move17:01
RST38hJaffa: If they will listen of course17:02
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JaffaRST38h: Indeed.17:02
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rangeEdLin: Oh. Last Pre I tried to check out used 5 minutes to boot, so I lost interest :)17:02
RST38hJaffa: also check out that SLP .pdf from yesterday17:02
JaffaRST38h: I missed it17:02
EdLinrange: yeah, I hope some of the hardware they're putting it on now will reduce that. 1.5GHz on the pre 3 will help that lots.17:02
rangeEdLin: I actually like the Veer's form factor (WebOS Shuffle) :)17:03
JaffaTouchBook looks nice17:03
JaffaTouchPad, rather17:03
EdLinrange: too small, it needs an adaptor for both headphone and microusb!17:03
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rangeAdaptor probably means no sane headphone amp, which means *blergh*17:04
dos11what amount of free space on / is needed for CSSU?17:04
rangeEdLin: Other than that ...17:04
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EdLinrange: well, if you never use the headphones, and use a touchstone all the time for charging... ;-)17:05
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rangeNeed a sane qwert anyway, if possible. The Pre3 one's might work, I actually liked the one on my Treo 65017:05
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Jaffados11: 10MB or so?17:06
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achipaguys - it's small, if you care, you care, if not, not17:06
EdLinrange: the pre 3 is supposed to be a good qwerty, biggest webos qwerty so-far.17:06
dos1Jaffa: i have 31MB and it complains that there is not enough space :(17:06
achipait's like saying a swiss army knife is crappy because the tools are small...17:06
EdLinRST38h: intel's booth.17:07
EdLinRST38h: I'm sure they are embarassed.17:07
RST38hthank you, Cpt Obvious17:07
Jaffados1: Check the "Problems" tab under "Details" in Application Manager. See also
EdLinRST38h: if you didn't want anyone commenting, don't post a link.17:08
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FIQ is that site even real?17:10
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EdLinanyhow, I have to go for now. bbl17:10
javispedrono shit, it puts "intel" on the picture =917:10
FIQoh, it wasn't17:12
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GeneralAntillesJaffa: up to you.17:14
GeneralAntillesJaffa: LG is Android.17:15
GeneralAntillesSo, no.17:15
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: There're rumours LG's interested in MeeGo...17:15
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GeneralAntillesI'd bet that interest took a beating on Friday.17:16
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LjLdoes anybody know of some free database of wifi geolocation data, that one could use on maemo with some hack to determine position?17:19
LjLi already know of wigle, was wondering about others17:19
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rangeFIQ: I wonder why it says "This is a satire, for the real Qt website go to" at the bottom :)17:23
FIQyeah, didn't notice first :P17:23
alteregohas there been any official announcement in regards to Qt yet?17:28
javispedrosee the official blog17:29
javispedroer... nokia conversations.17:29
LjLwhat does it mean to get "Rescuing software update. Please do not interrupt." on boot on N810? :\17:31
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alteregoLjL: probably means the device died during the last update.17:34
alteregoSo it's trying to complete the process.17:34
alteregoHaven't seen it personally.17:34
trumeejavispedro, Preenv doesnt list in Fap?17:35
javispedrotrumee: preenv is not in user/*17:36
trumeejavispedro, so i need to apt-get it?17:37
BCMMLjL: i've had a similar message on the n900, after powering off while an application was installing17:37
BCMMi guess it detects an inconsistent state indicitive of an interrupted installation and cleans it up17:37
BCMM(it wasn't me, it was an incorrectly-attached mount that pushed the power button for me)17:38
javispedrotrumee: yes17:38
BCMMit's actually a really neat mounting thing, with a tripod attachment thingy17:38
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LjLwhy is geoclue not available for os2008 :(17:54
LjLit's there for 2007!17:54
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lcukdoes anybody know how to do recursive grep, but restrict it to only a certain type of file?18:18
lcukgrep -r "something" .18:18
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lcukis how its working now, but I would like to restrict that to just *.txt for instance18:18
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lcuk:D sorted, "--include=*.txt"18:19
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otwieraczWhat if I flash n810 with wrong device?18:22
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Venemo_N900otwieracz: ?18:23
otwieraczwrong file18:23
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otwieraczI don't know what the hell, but my n810 is again in reboot-loop.18:26
Venemo_N900otwieracz: :(18:26
otwieraczI turned it off, then and and... loop.18:27
Venemo_N900otwieracz: reflash?18:27
otwieraczOnly idea.18:27
otwieraczSo sad that meego isn't usable.18:28
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Venemo_N900otwieracz: yet18:28
otwieraczThis project is alive?18:28
otwieracz(meego for n810)18:28
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timelessotwieracz: pull the battery out18:32
timelessthen pick an image you actually like and arrange to flash that18:33
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Venemo_N900X-Fade: ping18:35
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_nicolai_hey, someone knows what kind of widget,18:46
_nicolai_the brightness control plugin uses18:46
_nicolai_for setting the brightness level?18:46
jonwilbah, GCC is STILL compiling18:49
jonwilthe joys of running Gentoo I suppose :P18:49
Venemo_N900_nicolai_: no idea, but you could see qwerty12's brightness applet18:49
otwieracztimeless: I have any other options than the newest diablo?18:50
Venemo_N900_nicolai_: that probably uses the same widget18:50
kennaehow can I disable the light sensor so I can lock my brightness to one static level?18:51
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kennaeI read about QWB widgets etc but isnt there easyer way18:51
kennaeI dont have QWB and woudnt like to install it just for it18:51
_nicolai_Venemo_N900, good idea, ty.18:51
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Venemo_N900kennae: there is a topic on TMO about this18:52
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otwieracz ← I can choose only from this?18:55
timelessotwieracz: you do, but i'd probably stick with that18:56
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otwieraczSo, newest Diablo...18:58
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trumeejonwil, gentoo is awesome :)19:14
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trumeejonwil, i think luke-jr is running it on N900.19:15
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kennaegot the custom brightness to work, impressive19:28
kennaethanks Venemo_N90019:28
kennaewas easyer than I thought19:28
Venemo_N900kennae: you're welcome19:28
luke-jrotwieracz: Gentoo19:30
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kennaeis there some kind of gallery for QBW widgets?19:35
kennaethe thread is huge19:35
Venemo_N900kennae: no idea19:37
kennaewell, I dont really need anything19:37
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kennaejust bored at work :)19:37
vi_Nwork on a sunday?19:38
kennaeall I use with my phone is terminal and microb19:38
Venemo_N900kennae: what's your work?19:38
kennaeyeah, 12 hours night shift19:38
vi_you on irssi now?19:38
vi_fukin badass19:38
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: ping19:38
kennaeVenemo_N900: I sit and browse web19:39
vi_i dont get pp. using xchat19:39
kennaeeat stuff and watch movies19:39
Venemo_N900kennae: and you get paid for that?19:39
kennaebeen using irssi for 10 years19:39
vi_it rapes the screen space19:39
kennaeVenemo_N900: yes, very good19:39
kennaeim a security guard at a factory gate19:39
vi_how do i direct a comment at a person with irrsi?19:39
kennaeso I can pretty much use my time as I want19:40
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kennaenothing happens here19:40
vi_how do i direct a comment to a specific user19:40
vi_on irssi?19:40
vi_tell me kennae!19:40
kennaewhat do you mean by direct comment?19:41
kennaelike query? or notice?19:41
vi_notice maybe19:41
kennae/notice nick blaablaa19:41
vi_where your nick is highlighted19:41
kennaeyou cant highlight others nick if they havent set highlight on for themselves19:42
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vi_like when ppl respond to my questions my nick is highlighted at the start of the response19:42
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kennaeno magic in it, it does it automaticly if you have set highlight on19:43
keriovi_: like this?19:43
kennaevi_: LIKE THIS?!19:43
keriohuh... write the first letters and push tab?19:43
vi_vi_: lolloo19:44
kennaenew to irssi? :)19:44
vi_kennae: woot19:44
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vi_kennae: eat this!19:44
kennaeyes, it works19:44
vi_nice one, thanks19:44
jacekowskihave you heard latest intell announcment19:44
vi_does it involve you being a disparaging dick?19:44
jacekowskiintel will make meego smartphone19:45
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vi_will it be called n9?19:45
kennaewould love phone thats 2mm thick, big screen, able to answer calls and use terminal19:46
kennaenothing else19:46
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vi_so whos gonnae steal maemo source?19:53
vi_kennae: have you got n900 otterbox?19:54
trumeejacekowski, you are referring to the poster in MWC?19:54
trumeevi_, i have an otterbox.19:54
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vi_did you ever notice how sexy slim n900 becomes when you unbox it?19:55
trumeevi_, yes i did :)19:55
kennaevi_: no19:55
kennaewhats otterbox19:55
trumeevi_, it looks fragile19:55
vi_otterbox is the best case you can get for n90019:55
kennaenever used any boxes for it and its in a good condition19:55
trumeekennae, it is a plastic case19:56
kennaedont need one19:56
vi_with rubber inner layer19:56
vi_and really good screen protector19:56
trumeevi_, my only gripe is there is no car mount which can take otterbox19:56
vi_well some of us just ham fist the shit outta delicate gadgets and need tough armourlite cases for them!19:57
vi_surely somthing can accomodate its girth19:57
vi_look on fleabay19:57
trumeevi_, didnt find anything good. so i remove otterbox when i drive which is a pain19:58
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vi_too right, getting the case of is harder than getting a blowjob from the pope20:00
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vi_trumee: still no mention of n9 though...20:10
vi_trumee: still no mention of n9 though...20:10
trumeewhat the hell does disruption mean.20:10
trumeewhy all the fart talk about disruption20:11
trumeevi_, No new hardware today, they say20:12
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vi_what a load of ass.20:14
vi_a three ass race more like20:16
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vi_does that mean ovi is dead?20:23
trumeevi_, yes think so20:24
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pupniki bet it costs $200k just to get the moulding done for a phone20:24
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trumeeNICE!. "are you a trojan horse" somebody yelled at Flop20:25
chxi know, "I am not Trojan, I am Canadian"20:27
RST38h"But there's one more that's worth noting. For all of the unique elements that Nokia's contributing, Microsoft is contributing to Nokia substantial monetary value towards Nokia because we're contributing all of these things."20:28
RST38hWTF did he mean here? Considering that he has just said that Nokia is paying for WP7 licenses?20:28
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RST38h""When you look at all of the value that we're contributing, the value transferred to Nokia is measured in the Bs, not the Ms." That's billions, not millions, folks."  <=== Is he speaking for Microsoft or Nokia?20:29
chxhe says tranferred TO Nokia20:29
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RST38hchx: Then "we" are Microsoft? =)20:29
RST38hIs he working for Microsoft then?20:30
chxneed to go alas.20:30
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vi_dont go, the party justmstarted20:32
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piggzlol, someone just asked elop if he was a trojan horse at the mwc20:33
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FIQhahah yeah20:34
FIQsaw that20:34
GAN900Yes, yes he is.20:36
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keriohow did he answer?20:36
piggzSomeone just asked Elop if he we as Trojan Horse?A: No. But does understand perception. Conspiracy theory bye bye :)20:37
piggzQuestion: were you a Trojan horse? Board of directors reviewed and accepted the proposal #nokmsft20:37
piggz^ from twitter20:37
RST38hJust because he says he is not, does not mean he is not20:37
vi_norton pro: are you a virus?20:38
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vi_doomsday virus: (shifty eyes)
piggzmaybe my skills wont be completely useless
vi_show me some ff20:39
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vi_fffff'ing hardware nokia20:39
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RST38hmoo javispedro20:45
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vi_what a shit offering at mwc20:51
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vi_he told us nothing20:52
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vi_just more ass about how he loves m$20:52
vi_does anyone think they will unveil this magical meego device this mwc?20:52
Venemogood evening20:54
pupnikvi take it to #meego-bar20:54
VenemoMohammadAG: ping20:54
Trewas666announcing a meego device right now would be somewhat surprising, but so was the whole sell-out to microsoft so who knows :)20:55
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pupnikthe n900 just got better-looking20:58
pupnikbut "The first MeeGo device that will ship this year will take advantage of the Qt framework"20:59
MohammadAGthis year = december20:59
vi_take it to meego bay?20:59
vi_take this to meego bar!20:59
vi_(i am referring to my anus)21:00
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vi_MohammadAG: so what is the conscenus on a maemo meego hybrid?21:01
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cehtehevery handheld device i buyed got toasted so far .. first the apple newton, now the n900 .. maybe i shall buy a WP7 phone just to enforce its fate :P21:09
GAN900Ah, Newton.21:10
GAN900That was a bit of genius right there.21:10
cehtehto early for its time :/21:10
javispedrocehteh: hey, I bought a m130 (then m68k handhelds got the axe), then a T|X (then Palm went offline until the Pre thing), then a N810 =)21:10
RST38hNewton sucked. But Zoomer was really cool.21:10
cehtehand no frre os, no good linux conectivity so its rotting away21:10
cehtehnewton was cool in many ways and still some concepts are way ahead of current smartphones21:11
cehtehglobal search, assistant ...21:11
cehtehthe awesome gestures and clibboard interface21:11
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cehtehbest (but not perfect) handwriting recognition so far (why this got never improved)21:12
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ArkenoiSeems that handwriting recognition is dead, people prefer virtual keyboards21:13
FIQi prefer physical ones21:14
cehtehsometimes i do .. or hardware keyboads, but the notetaking and sketching app was cool21:14
Arkenoisure, but if you are forced to screen input method..21:14
FIQyeah, then i prefer touch-keyboard21:14
FIQMy old P1i had handwriting, but i didn't like it21:15
Arkenoiwhat i miss on n900 is ability to make combined text and sketch notes21:15
jaskathen i throw the device away21:15
FIQnever did as i told21:15
FIQpreferred the hardware one21:15
RST38hMaemo4 had pretty decent handwriting recognition in fact21:15
cehtehalso speech recognittion .. 10 years ago a expected we will be 'there' someday .. but in fact its rather dead technology (it works but the support/killing app for it is lacking)21:15
RST38has far as it goes of course21:15
jaskaalso it feels like it looks stupid to talk to a device21:16
VenemoRST38h: which was closed source21:16
cehtehRST38h: really? where?21:16
cehtehi never seen it (never had a n810)21:16
RST38hcehteh: They killed it inMaemo521:16
FIQ"Can i phone {{Person}} please?" "Sure! *starting a music app*"21:16
FIQ^ something like that happened when I tried iPhones speech recognization one time21:17
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FIQconclusion: it sucked21:17
cehtehyes .. i really expected this should be solved someday ...21:18
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javispedroRST38h: imho it was crappy, if you try to do continuous recognition you either do it pretty well (ms tablet) or don't and just do "block regonition" (palm)21:18
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RST38hjavispedro: Maemo4 recognition worked relatively well for me, same as on Windows Tablet and much better than WinMo or Palm21:18
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javispedrowell -- surprising21:19
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* pahartik used to like PalmOS (up to version 4) input method21:20
RST38hI still didn't use it though, too many errors21:20
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cehtehbtw is there any support gurantee for the n900/maemo about how long they will provide updates and leave the servers running? i dont expect that to be shut down any time soon but well, i dont think they will run/suppport it for years either21:22
flailingmonkeyno guarantees21:22
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cehtehprolly i should mirror the repository on my server :P21:23
cehtehjust in case21:23
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FIQisn't just semi-official?21:24
FIQi.e. not hosted by Noki21:24
cehtehwho pays for the servers?21:26
MohammadAGhas Nokia announced the N9 yet?21:27
cehtehRegistrant Name:Nokia Corporation21:27
cehtehMohammadAG: nah .. and i wont buy it, i'd rather boycott nokia21:27
DocScrutinizerthere's definitely too much traffic in this chan - battery flat after 5h, awesome¡21:27
cehteh(i didnt planned to buy it anyways, i hope my n900 will last some more years)21:27
MohammadAGcehteh, clearly, we know it's not Nokia's fault21:28
MohammadAGit's its new CEO21:28
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cehtehMohammadAG: yes/no .. even before they wherent really committed to this all21:28
cehtehfrom the start on, it was more a toy product, they never hold their promisies about commitment to maemo/meego, look at ovi, ovi-maps and all other announcements21:29
cehtehplenty of direction changes, allways pissing someone new21:30
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DocScrutinizerFIQ: you suck ;-P Computers aren't used to hear a "please", nor a "can I...?"21:30
javispedroso it was a toy product, for two years it was marketed as a NOT toy product, but now it's bad to being a toy product21:30
cehtehDocScrutinizer: hey if you implement speech recognition with INTERCAL then you need that :)21:30
DocScrutinizerCALL {{NAME}}, SUCKER!!!21:30
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DocScrutinizercall sucker, Mr?21:31
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norayrhey people, anyone knows the difference between png shortcuts in Diablo and Fremantle?21:32
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norayrI am compiling my application (photographic light meter) now21:32
FIQDocScrutinizer, well, it didn't answer like that eihter21:32
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norayrand 64x64 png shortcut is shown smaller than others on n81021:33
FIQi told it to "Phone {{Person}}"21:33
FIQto be exact21:33
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tybolltMohammadAG: N9 - the Windows 7 mobile \o/21:38
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MohammadAGthey had a chance to fix their issues by announcing a MeeGo device21:39
MohammadAGthis has to be by far, the worst year for Nokia21:39
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flailingmonkeyapparently the meego device will not have hardware keyboard. the version with keyboard was "rejected by operators" for having too flimsy a keyboard hinge/slider21:50
flailingmonkeyif only meego device is without hardware keyboard... LOL ridiculous21:51
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flailingmonkeyFlop says the announcement was "well recieved" in some departments of Nokia "for example, our sales department is very excited"21:54
Trewasprobably well received in the sense that they are one of the few department not being axed :P21:54
flailingmonkey"In markets like the United States -- both sales and development -- are excited because they see the way back into that market."21:54
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flailingmonkeyyeah, but I expect that the middle management will make collaboration with US cell operators impossible. same will happen collaborating with M$21:56
DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: >>citation needed<< the version with keyboard was "rejected by operators"21:56
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fralsofc sales are happy, guess is that they are still needed after symbian/meego is cut ;)21:57
DocScrutinizerfrals: yeah, and need to sell less, to earn the wages for the colleafues set free21:58
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flailingmonkeyits only from TechCrunch EU:’s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/21:59
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flailingmonkeythey know that people will "understand" the Windows brand (even if its for Phone) vs. MeeGo, and no more talk about positives of open source. too much of a headache for sales drones22:00
pupnikthe USA model should be destroyed22:01
pupnikin europe there is cell-phone freedom22:01
flailingmonkeymiddle management will be happy to hear the end of all that open source hoopla too22:01
* RST38h got a feeling pupnik added "model" when editing that statement22:01
flailingmonkeyI think Elop must be surrounded by lots of yes-yes people, and doesn't realize how much hate he has created for himself. not just sadness, real burning hate22:02
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pupnikCapt. Malcolm Reynolds: But it ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flying is? Well, I suppose you do, since you already know what I'm about to say.22:04
pupnikRiver Tam: I do. But I like to hear you say it.22:04
pupnikCapt. Malcolm Reynolds: Love. You can learn all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as a turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' before she keels. Makes her a home.22:05
pupnikRiver Tam: Storm's getting worse.22:05
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flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: a link to TechCrunch EU article about version with keyboard,’s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/22:09
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tybolltMohammadAG: I read (these are probably rumours) that they actually had Meego HW all ready and developed, and it was all about announcing and starting production when they were told to scrap it all .. again no idea if those were rumours or what22:30
abas there is nobody to confirm, these are definitely rumours ;)22:30
nox-but yeah i wouldnt be surprised if those operators there would just be scapegoats22:31
flailingmonkeytybollt: the unconfirmed reports of canned HW that was ready for production have been floating around. it doesn't seem unlikely at this point22:33
DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: thanks22:34
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DocScrutinizertybollt: "all ready and developed" is a rather fuzzy term, when it comes to hw massproduction. It's quite obvious there have been working prototypes, yes. If those were ready for primetime aka mass production is a different topic22:35
SpeedEvilAt around 12:20 on the day of the announcement, it was mentionedinthepressconference thatt ehre were several meego handset designs that are being retargeted for wp722:36
SpeedEvilhow complete these are wasn't mentioned.22:36
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DocScrutinizerActually building a shiny looking prototype is rather simple and reasonably quick, just unbearable expensive22:37
* cehteh expects that they only roll out a half baked meego device without any future and then sell it badly to later use that as argument that "people did not want meego" ..22:37
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johnxbut not *that* expensive compared to Nokia's R&D budget22:37
flailingmonkeylike those photoshopped "prototypes" shown off about a Nokia WP7 phone22:38
johnxflailingmonkey, from engadget?22:38
SpeedEvilThe best of all possible worlds would be if the wp7 phones were all meegoable.22:38
SpeedEvilwell - neglecting windows tax22:38
pupnikcan i get a refund for the windows portion if i install meego?22:38
johnxSpeedEvil, hmmmm. Which basically means OMAP3 based with few hardware/firmware barriers put up between the user and 'root' access22:39
flailingmonkeyjohnx: after engadget showed it, it also showed up in today's little presentation made by Elop (Flop)22:39
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VenemoJaffa: ping22:39
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johnxflailingmonkey, yeah, I thought by 'photoshopped' you were implying 'not real.' ;)22:40
flailingmonkeyoh its not real, but only in the sense that it doesn't exist. just mocked up to distract people22:41
cehtehSpeedEvil: I'd agree why dont they just build good hardware and then leave the choice about the OS to the customer22:41
cehtehmaybe even android ...22:41
Venemowhy is it that the N900's modem consumes more power than it can draw from USB?22:42
cehtehno one says that they have to develop and support all this OS'es by themself, as long the specs are sufficiently free and drivers available22:42
pupnikElop is not stupid – he is 7th largest personal shareholder in MS,22:42
cehtehVenemo: because usb can only provide 500mA .. or 1.5A with charger conneced22:42
Venemocehteh: and the modem consumes more?22:43
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johnxVenemo, not by itself, but you *could* get the phone into a state where it's using more power than it can get from USB22:43
johnxfull brightness, max CPU clock, SD card access, cell modem TX at full power22:44
cehtehpupnik: well we may talk in a few years about it, but i see that it is either a dead horse OR nokia becomes a windows hardware company .. both is bad for its currentl customers, no matter about elop's assets22:44
JaffaVenemo: pong22:44
VenemoJaffa: "The Community SSU already contains rewrites of two closed source control panel applets with the added feature of portrait mode support." -> portrait mode support? where?22:45
flailingmonkeyand bad for its current developers22:45
cehtehyeah .. well nokia pissed everyone ..22:45
johnxheh. Somehow it feels almost poetic to be considering buying a WP7 phone with the full intention of never booting it into WP7. Reminds me of running linux on whitebox Windows PCs from the '90s :)22:45
cehtehmostly its developers and community, which is really a shoot in the foot for them22:45
JaffaVenemo: The "TV out" and "notification LED" applets both support portrait mode now.22:45
VenemoJaffa: oh, that's nice22:46
JaffaVenemo: A few more and can be a reality22:46
flailingmonkeypupnik: he'd have been able to sell his MS shares, but once they started talking about that partnership he could no longer do so. he isn't allowed to buy/sell when he has inside knowledge that hasn't been announced to the public22:46
johnxcehteh, and they trade that for everyone developing for WP7. I suppose they consider that a fair trade. Otherwise they wouldn't have done it22:46
cehtehwhat about an open BME?22:46
cehtehwho of the devs here will migrate to wp7, raise hands please ..22:46
flailingmonkeyhe'll get a big chunk of Nokia stock, so he will have to keep Nokia afloat for a while22:46
Venemojohnx: "considering buying a WP7 phone with the full intention of never booting it into WP7" -> no need to. there'll be better alternatives by then22:47
Venemocehteh: I will migrate to MeeGo :P22:47
johnxcehteh, I think this channel tends to be linux fans, not nokia fans. These people will go where Linux is (maybe some to Android)22:47
cehtehfor a consumer there might be not that big difference (while i still think smartphone consumers think before they buy and have reasons for their choice)22:47
cehtehbut for a linux based developer community (unless you run a shop which already does ios apps or so) its very likely a no-go22:48
pupnikwho else has a community22:48
cehtehandroid is not linux and not free (for a lot reasons)22:48
johnxVenemo, I know, but it seems so ... nostalgic in a way. "The more things change, the more they stay the same." That kind of thing22:48
Jaffapupnik: WebOS has a bit of one22:49
Venemojohnx: :)22:49
wmaronewell, it's Linux but not GNU/Linux22:49
cehtehi bet you could port dalvik to other kernels22:49
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Venemocehteh: see 'alien dalvik'22:49
cehtehVenemo: isnt that still linux?22:49
johnxcehteh, "Android is not linux" -> That's why I didn't say it was ...22:49
Venemocehteh: yes, but it doesn't need the android crap22:49
Jaffajohnx: Correct. I don't care about Nokia (apart from some of the people I've come to know), but I did care about the platform which met my usecases best :-/22:49
cehtehbut really on android there is a linux kernel somewhere .. but there is no free choice of tools22:49
VenemoJaffa: 100% agreed22:50
Venemocehteh: yeah22:50
cehtehyes .. my first thought where also about the linux people i know and work there22:50
BCMMwmarone: it isn't even linux... it's an increasingly incompatible fork of the linux kernel22:50
johnxcehteh, kinda. but it's gonna be full of drivers that you can't really use with a normal distro22:50
RST38hand the reason for this discrepancy?22:51
cehtehwhen my n900 dies someday i consider the next 'free, open' phone no matter who produces it22:51
VenemoBCMM: 100% agreed22:51
flailingmonkeythe really concerning issue is that Nokia's approach to open source will soon by like Microsoft's approach to open souce: an unfunny joke22:51
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Venemoflailingmonkey: :(22:51
johnxRST38h, errr? are you asking why people write crappy drivers?22:52
cehtehwell and with the gta04 announed i bite in my ass .. never expected that it gets an upgrade path, thats kindof awesome .. even if its ugly as hell22:52
pupnikBCMM: increasingly?  can't it be merged?22:52
RST38hjohnx: Yes, I am asking if there is a specific reason to write stuff based on linux kernel but incompatible with linux base22:52
wmaronecehteh: gta04 is a non-starter if it's behind the times in terms of connectivity like the previous hardware was22:52
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cehtehiirc they got decent hardware now22:53
wmaroneRST38h: control, obviously22:53
cehtehumts, faster cpu than the n900, dunno about ram22:53
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RST38hwmarone: what control?22:53
admiral0hi can anybody help me?22:53
wmaroneRST38h: the control google has, to take it where they want to22:53
cehtehi dont have a gta02 so i didnt investigated it, but it looks quite cool by now22:53
admiral0i almost bricked my n90022:53
wmaroneand to act unilaterally22:53
flailingmonkeyVenemo: but the middle management will be relieved. open source/development was way too uncomfortable for them =P22:53
admiral0installed nitdroid, but have a custom kernel22:54
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admiral0and have to edit multiboot file22:54
norayrhey people, and what about "maximize" button on n810? what it does? what it sends to the applications, because my application does not go fullscreen when I press that button22:54
Venemoflailingmonkey: yeah, although some people did understand it, like Ari Jaaksi22:54
admiral0where does multiboot search kernels?22:54
johnxRST38h, Getting stuff into mainline is too longterm of a goal for companies to be able to approach with rationality. So they right drivers that are quick hacks but are never of the quality required to get into mainline. They hack up anything in their path, not worrying about whether it breaks other drivers or doesn't work on different architecture22:54
flailingmonkeyVenemo: and it seems they saw the writing on the wall. time for new Finnish phone company? :)22:55
RST38hjohnx:this should fuck them up later in the development cycle though22:55
cehtehDocScrutinizer: do you know how much ram the gta04 will have?22:55
RST38has maintenance costs become too high22:55
Venemoflailingmonkey: :)22:55
johnxRST38h, it does. that's probably part of why some phones don't get newer versions of android. It gets too expensive to forward port the drivers22:55
johnxanyways, off now :) cleaning ...22:56
cehtehwell .. how about an actual kernel for the n900?22:56
cehtehzram will be awesome :P22:56
DocScrutinizercehteh: I seem to recall they don't know yet. Depending on what they can get22:58
cehteh1GB would be extremely awesome .. but i dont really expect that22:58
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dangergrrloh wow, this is an active channel :)23:01
norayrlet me return to my n810 question :)23:01
norayrso I've prepared n810 port of my app23:02
norayrI was using it on n900 before23:02
norayrBy default I have made 800x480 screen size, so on n810 right part of the app is not seen23:02
norayrAnd when I try to press the maximize-like button23:03
norayrwhich is first left on the top of the n81023:03
norayrit does not maximize, because I do not know what to do in order to maximize it23:03
norayrI mean which kind of signal it sends23:03
dangergrrlwhy do they ship the n900 with such a small filesystem for programs?23:03
norayrThat was one question, and another one - my 64x64 png icon which worked well on Fremantle23:04
Venemodangergrrl: you can resize the partitions if you wanna23:04
dangergrrli know23:04
dangergrrlbut it's a chore23:04
norayrlooks small if compared with other icons in the application menu on n81023:04
Jaffanorayr: 48x48 for apps menu on Diablo23:04
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norayrJaffa: thanks23:05
dangergrrli actually bought it to be my main computer while travelling and camping and such23:05
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: see23:05
Venemobman: boo to you too23:05
apti guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence323:05
DocScrutinizerhowdy bman23:06
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bmanhows everything23:06
dangergrrli'm kinda curious if anyone actually does development for the n900 on the n900 itself?23:06
DocScrutinizeryes, some do23:07
bmani did dev work on my n800 with my bluetooth keyboard23:07
norayrdangergrrl: I am23:07
bmanbut touchscreen and coding didnt go well23:07
Venemodangergrrl: I do only testing with the play button in Qt Creator23:07
norayrdangergrrl: I am doing23:07
cehtehi consider that too, put the development tools in a chroot on the µSD23:07
norayrdangergrrl: actually I am compiling it, changing the code a little23:07
norayrmost of the code I write and test on a desktop23:07
cehtehfor small things and scripting language development that should be fairly sufficent23:07
cehtehkernel compiles prolly suck a bit :P23:08
dangergrrland is nokia dropping linux as part of the microsoft deal?23:08
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norayrbecause maemo is basicly Linux, I can write portable code which will run on desktop as well23:08
Venemodangergrrl: not entirely23:08
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dangergrrli'm kinda disappointed that meego is not language neutral already23:09
Venemodangergrrl: what makes you think it is23:09
norayrJaffa: do you remember n810 Diablo left bar size? I mean the most easy solution is to shorten my application23:09
Venemonorayr: just use the layout manager23:09
dangergrrlmaemo is language neutral, you can write gtk apps in any programming language23:09
Venemodangergrrl: you can for meego too, as long as you have a compiler for it23:10
dangergrrli'm an old systems programmer, i don't like c++ or java, i like c23:11
Venemodangergrrl: so then program in C23:11
dangergrrldoes qt even have c bindings?23:11
norayrdangergrrl: meego has GTK23:11
Venemodangergrrl: not that I know of. but you can use Gtk too23:11
norayrdangergrrl: for sure23:11
dangergrrloh, i thought they dropped gtk23:11
Venemodangergrrl: not really23:11
norayrdangergrrl: no, if I search I can find a couple of proofs23:12
wmaroneit's not part of the core build, but it can be installed23:12
dangergrrloh, then i'm cool with it :)23:12
Venemodangergrrl: ^23:12
dangergrrlcan't afford a 32g microsd card right now though23:12
dangergrrlpoor :(23:13
Venemodangergrrl: you can install on eMMC23:13
dangergrrli do want to try meego though23:13
Venemodangergrrl: you can install it on N900's eMMC23:13
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bmanpimpin the tor network today23:15
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DocScrutinizer16G uSD should suffice23:24
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kerioyou mean µSD23:26
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kerioso... elop is the 8th largest individual M$ shareholder23:37
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keriois anyone surprised?23:37
dangergrrli dunno who elop is23:39
nox-i guess `ms puppet' fits23:40
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keriopuppets don't make a shitton of money for themselves23:41
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andre__kerio: so... you believe something posted on a random website23:46
andre__is anyone surprised?23:46
andre__(oops, wrong copy and paste) ;-)23:46
kerioreading reddit titles is all i need23:46
andre__good luck with finding out the difference between fiction and reality then...23:47
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MohammadAGkthxbye lol andre__23:47
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andre__MohammadAG: sorry, way too much bullshit recently (IRC, Mail, interwebs)23:49
andre__...reminds me of Naked Gun 1 when the fireworks shop explodes and the policeman in front tells the rubbernecks "Nothing to see, pass on!" ;-)23:51
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Venemoandre__: :)23:52
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Venemoandre__: how do you feel about friday's news?23:52
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jacekowskirubbernecks should die23:53
jacekowskiesspecialy on motorways23:53
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johnxjacekowski, thanks to modern safety equipment in cars they tend to just crash and be the subject for other rubberneckers23:54
andre__Venemo: good question... maybe :-P23:54
Venemoandre__: yeah, I agree with you23:54
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andre__personally I don't see how adapting to yet another platform fixes the internal organization structure problems that obviously hinder the "Time To Market" process23:55
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Venemoandre__: yeah, me neither23:56
Venemoandre__: conclusion: "Time To Market" didn't play a role in this decision23:56
andre__but I only studied Business, so I don't have to understand this</irony>23:56
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Venemoandre__: :)23:57

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