| derf | The stuff like, "All variables in shared memory are placed at the same address" is just insane, too. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| derf | You can work around it by declaring a struct to avoid having to do all the address calculations yourself. | 00:00 |
| * lardman|home had not seen that | 00:00 | |
| derf | But it's like, come _on_ people, this is what compilers are for. | 00:00 |
| lardman|home | I don't need to use shared memory though, so perhaps that was also the thought of the CUDA designers ;) | 00:01 |
| trumee | can applets be triggered from commandline? | 00:02 |
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| LjL | is Tear a good choice for a web browser on OS2008, or does it have pitfalls i have so far (in my 30 seconds test) missed? | 00:04 |
| * lardman|home wonders how much texture memory his GTX 470 has | 00:04 | |
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| pupnik | LjL: i liked the speed a lot | 00:05 |
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| PhonicUK | lardman|home, I'm pretty sure its 1.25GB for a stock 470 | 00:05 |
| LjL | pupnik: so far i like that it has kinetic scrolling and that i can search google from the address bar (not just "i'm feeling lucky" style) | 00:06 |
| lardman|home | PhonicUK: thanks, well that's more than enough for my needs | 00:06 |
| LjL | are there any other gems from Mer (i believe Tear is from Mer, anyway?) i might want to try out? | 00:08 |
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| pupnik | LjL: wish i'd installed a gps logger so i could have nailed the guy who stole my device :D | 00:35 |
| pupnik | in fact, it's tempting to set that situation up :) | 00:35 |
| LjL | :( | 00:35 |
| LjL | a potentially expensive experiment :P | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Nailbomb works better. | 00:36 |
| merlin1991 | ouch | 00:38 |
| merlin1991 | I awlays thought you guys are friendly ;) | 00:38 |
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| lardman|home | yeah, but you need a bucket to catch him then | 00:41 |
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| Per_n900 | I have a n800 that i never really used. Is there anything newer than os2008 that will work on it? Debian or something? | 00:44 |
| LjL | is MyTube supposed to be working, with the patch at http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=612619&postcount=308 ? | 00:45 |
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| jonwil | all my reverse engineering and development efforts seem to be going nowhere :( | 00:51 |
| lardman|home | no! | 00:52 |
| lardman|home | what's up jonwil ? | 00:52 |
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| jonwil | Cant seem to get anywhere with my reverse engineering efforts | 00:52 |
| lardman|home | well yeah, I sort of got that bit ;) | 00:52 |
| lardman|home | but what specifically? | 00:53 |
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| jonwil | well I have been trying a few different things | 00:53 |
| jonwil | been trying to reverse engineer the isi/phonet stuff for GPS (as well as the interface to liblas) without success | 00:53 |
| jonwil | Also been interested in reverse engineering and cloning libcal, again no joy | 00:54 |
| lardman|home | some of the GPS stuff is in the wiki isn't it? | 00:54 |
| jonwil | small bits of it | 00:54 |
| jonwil | but nowhere near the full story | 00:54 |
| lardman|home | Well I was reverse engineering init (from the Tab) and likewise no immediate sucess, nasty compilation | 00:55 |
| lardman|home | though init is quite small, but it is statically compiled which makes life harder | 00:56 |
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| jonwil | I did find one thing for IDA that has helped a bit | 00:57 |
| lardman|home | not aqualung? | 00:57 |
| jonwil | nope | 00:57 |
| jonwil | that never worked | 00:57 |
| jonwil | It lets you parse header files and it generates a type library file for it | 00:57 |
| jonwil | that you can load | 00:57 |
| jonwil | which then gives you all the typedefs and structure and enums | 00:58 |
| lardman|home | hmm, sounds interesting | 00:58 |
| jonwil | so things like gboolean or DBusMessage or whatever | 00:58 |
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| lardman|home | what's that called? | 00:58 |
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| jonwil | depending on various factors it may also automatically recognize imported functions | 00:58 |
| jonwil | tilib. But I doubt you have access to the place I found it :) | 00:59 |
| jonwil | What version of IDA are you using? | 00:59 |
| lardman|home | 5.something | 00:59 |
| jonwil | 5.5? | 01:00 |
| lardman|home | which works with aqualung | 01:00 |
| jonwil | the thing I have is for 5.5 | 01:00 |
| lardman|home | dunno will have to check, i think before that though, is quite old | 01:00 |
| lardman|home | ah ok | 01:00 |
| jonwil | 5.5 is the newest I can find | 01:00 |
| lardman|home | am tempted to write my own decompiler, would be quite interesting, but time consuming | 01:00 |
| lardman|home | never ideal when you have something you want to get done :) | 01:01 |
| jonwil | yeah | 01:01 |
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| lardman|home | I've got to hit the sack, got a meeting first thing tomorrow, but would be interested to chat about your reverse engineering problems, perhaps over the weekend if you're about | 01:02 |
| lardman|home | otherwise give me a shout next week | 01:02 |
| lardman|home | anyway night all | 01:02 |
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| jonwil | Maybe someone needs to win lotto and buy a copy of the new IDA PRO HexRays ARM decompiler and use that :P | 01:03 |
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| jonwil | Although I have been pulling apart some x86 binaries from the SDK and HexRays isn't a magic bullet there either :P | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: Find a name inthe executable, and then turn up at their door with a large amount of alcohol. | 01:04 |
| jonwil | Our best hope for GPS is either that Nokia publishes the isi/phonet calls or that Nokia releases GPS for N900 MeeGo with a much smaller (and therefore easier to reverse engineer) set of closed bits | 01:04 |
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| jacekowski | jonwil: there is info for that in spec | 01:05 |
| javispedro | jonwil: that just happened: http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ | 01:05 |
| jonwil | I seen those before | 01:05 |
| jonwil | they cover most of isi/phonet | 01:05 |
| jonwil | but not GPS | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | gps as well | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: ^^^^ oops too slow | 01:05 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | 20:03 < DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: luke-jr, whom-it-may-concern: ISI specs actually mention how to talk GPS and even AGPS to cmt, it's called Modem LCS (Location Server) there. ((actually Mickey found this, so credit goes to him)) | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-10 20:09:55] <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: g2, i_modem_lcs_fp.pdf | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | LCS = LoCation Server | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | … | 01:06 |
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| luke-jr | jonwil: also, I reverse engineered the GPS protocol like a year ago | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | V 11.0 Wireless Modem 10-Nov-2010 MSW-04.03 | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | and released example code that works with gpsd | 01:07 |
| jonwil | from what I saw on the wiki, that's just parts of it. agps wasnt covered at that point | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | no, I didn't mess w/ AGPS | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | read those docs DocScrutinizer linked | 01:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ^^^ footnote of i_modem_lcs_fp.pdf | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's quite fresh | 01:08 |
| jonwil | hmmm, those docs dont seem to match the N900, liblas is sending to a resource 80 whereas the LCS server in those docs is listed as being resource 144 | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | problem with ISI is it's an incredibly universal concept, which inevitably multiplies complexity | 01:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there might be spec-violations in BB5 CMT | 01:13 |
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| javispedro | at least the 3d location report packet seems to match =) | 01:14 |
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| jonwil | which packet is the 3D location report packet? | 01:17 |
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| Psi | anyone know if the EU's "one charger for all" chargers will do fast charge on n900 | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | yes | 01:23 |
| Psi | nice | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | as long as it complies with usb standard | 01:24 |
| jacekowski | but it should | 01:24 |
| jacekowski | unless it's apple charger | 01:24 |
| Psi | i mean the wall chargers | 01:24 |
| jonwil | The good news is that since the GPS phonet messages are in the modem spec, getting Nokia to release the specific specs for the n900 cellmo (to support GPS on MeeGo) should be easier :P | 01:25 |
| Psi | anyone know whats happening with meego lately? | 01:26 |
| Psi | ive heard some strange things | 01:26 |
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| bjv | how's fast charge supposed to work with usb? | 01:28 |
| ieatlint | uh, for the n900, it bridges data +/- | 01:30 |
| ieatlint | is that actually part of the usb spec though? | 01:30 |
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| ieatlint | the bridging the data pin method is the standard adopted now i think | 01:30 |
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| ieatlint | the usb3. spec allows something like 800mah-1ah to be drawn as i recall though, but no phones support that methinks | 01:31 |
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| jollymushr0om | hey | 01:32 |
| bjv | ah, right http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_1.zip | 01:32 |
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| jollymushr0om | is this the right place to ask some general questions about that os? | 01:33 |
| bjv | ##linux | 01:34 |
| bjv | but, yes | 01:34 |
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| jollymushr0om | is this application manager gui used to be not that stable? | 01:35 |
| javispedro | jonwil: MODEM_LCS_SB_RRC_REF_LOCATION or so I think. | 01:35 |
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| javispedro | or MODEM_LCS_SB_RRC_LOCATION_INFO ... | 01:36 |
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| skrullis | what's the name of the root device on nokia n900? I need to mount it | 01:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | /dev/mmcblk0p? | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | 0 Ithink is root | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | err - no | 01:39 |
| Sc0rpius | "rootfs" I don't think it's mapped in /dev | 01:40 |
| Sc0rpius | it's like tmpfs | 01:40 |
| bjv | df -h always tells me what is what | 01:40 |
| skrullis | so how can I mount it then? if it's not in dev :) | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | /dev/mtd5 is root | 01:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | it's ubifs | 01:40 |
| javispedro | skrullis: but, but, but why you'd want to do that? | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | skrullis: why do you think you need to mount it | 01:41 |
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| skrullis | SpeedEvil: lol | 01:41 |
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| skrullis | I just booted the device with an initrd :) | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius | I'm talking (via IM) with a coworker she's a beautiful girl of only 25 years old | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius | I wish I could be at least 10 years younger right now | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | cat /proc/cmdline | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6 | 01:42 |
| javispedro | skrullis: in that case you should know that mount a ubi volume is not as trivial as a ext3 one; you'll have to google a bit | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, now that's really polite and nice: | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | This interface is used to forward a privacy notification (notification or verification) from | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | the network. When the network wants to determine the position of the terminal, it can | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | first ask the terminal for permission. When the network invokes the privacy | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | notification in the terminal, it can either ask the terminal to request acceptance from | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the user (verification), or it can tell the terminal to notify the user, but not ask the user | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | for acceptance (Notification). | 01:43 |
| javispedro | that's when a hammer comes handy. | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:44 |
| skrullis | javispedro: ok... | 01:44 |
| skrullis | SpeedEvil: thanks | 01:44 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: can we somehow block that? | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: thanks! I tortured /etc with find -name *pre*init* all night long :-P | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: with a hammer, like javispedro said | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm, unsure where it's getting the mtd partition number from in there | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: or with a nice MU-metal sleeve to shield all 1.8GHz(?) GPS signals | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: or with a shorting plug for X6200 GPT RF test connector | 01:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Or you operate a 4G device near the phone. | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, the question is: can we make the device reliably signal when network is asking for a location report | 01:49 |
| skrullis | is it possible to access the ubifs over usb? | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's way more useful than obscuring the true GPS location | 01:50 |
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| skrullis | so I can mount it on my laptop | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | *spoofing* GPS location however would be a really nice idea, as nobody would expect that | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | skrullis: No. Not withthe usual software. | 01:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Youcould in principle do nfs | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | It's easy. | 01:50 |
| DrGrov | Good evening guys and gals | 01:50 |
| DrGrov | What is the news around here? :) | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (spoofing) | 01:51 |
| skrullis | the problem is that my phone doesn't boot, I was hacking a few files and know I need to undo the changes... or format it :( | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 01:51 |
| infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Im;ess upi | 01:51 |
| skrullis | (well, it boots and it doesn't do anything else, over and over again) | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | See above. | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | skrullis: beware to deplete battery | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | skrullis: you'll fall in a deadlock | 01:52 |
| skrullis | so it doesn't charge without os? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | as device doesn't charge while bootlooping, and doesn't flash with empty bat | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 01:53 |
| DrGrov | Anyone interested in the Nokia press conference scheduled for tomorrow? Or actually today... | 01:53 |
| skrullis | f*ck. Thanks for telling me | 01:53 |
| javispedro | skrullis: so you're new to the device, killed maemo and already playing with a custom initrd without learning to reflash first? =) | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | DrGrov: tomorrow. | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | brave new user | 01:54 |
| DrGrov | SpeedEvil: Yes, tomorrow for most of you guys :) | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | http://twitter.com/#!/nokia | 01:54 |
| DrGrov | SpeedEvil: It is today for me since it is 2 AM here. | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | 7h:35 min anyway | 01:55 |
| skrullis | javispedro: well I've had it a while and got pissed on the vfat user system (i tried to uncompress the linux kernel source on it and the filesystem went crazy because of to many files) so I was going to do my new ext2 automount and obviously i did bad things | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Simply flashing it should work fine. | 01:57 |
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| DrGrov | SpeedEvil: My plan is to stay awake until I read that 9:30 Finnish time scheduled memo | 01:57 |
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| DrGrov | SpeedEvil: I know, I am an idiot with a capital I | 01:57 |
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| DrGrov | Nobody got any theories on what Elop will announce tomorrow? | 01:58 |
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| DrGrov | I need someone to talk to about this before it drives me insane | 01:58 |
| flat` | :o | 01:59 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov: maybe you are taking this a bit too seriously? | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yay | 01:59 |
| Proteous | he will announce that he will not step down and will stay in office until September and then everyone will shake shoes at him | 01:59 |
| skrullis | thanks for help guys. sleeptime | 01:59 |
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| DrGrov | Per_n900: Well, perhaps yes now that you're saying so. | 02:00 |
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| DrGrov | Per_n900: I think just that it is very important for us Finns to see where Nokia is heading | 02:00 |
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| Per_n900 | DrGrov: I see. All I know is that I promised myself in 1998 to never again buy anything microsoft related so if Nokia adopts windows phone 7, thats it for me with the nokias :( | 02:03 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Yeah, I really hope that Elop is not cooking it up with Mr. Ballmer and throwing a M$ party later | 02:03 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: I fear though Elop have been cooking the soup already a long long time with M$. | 02:04 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov, I seriously think that would be the end for Nokia. Microsoft is already dead but they just keep floating like a dead fish or something. | 02:05 |
| GAN900 | They're licensing iOS. | 02:05 |
| GAN900 | That's the only explanation. | 02:05 |
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| Gorroth | yeah, MSFT is so dead... | 02:05 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov: Yes, thats not at all impossible. | 02:05 |
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| DrGrov | Per_n900: I still wonder why Elop was allowed to leave MS otherwise. There has to be a corpse buried somewhere. | 02:06 |
| Gorroth | allowed? how could they force him to stay? | 02:06 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: Well not in the sense they allowed him to stay or made him stay. More like he had a plan already from the beginning to integrate Windows Phone 7(8 when they arrive?) into Nokia's strategy. | 02:07 |
| Gorroth | oh | 02:07 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: Sorry, that was a poor explanation from the beginning. | 02:07 |
| Gorroth | no, it's okay | 02:08 |
| DrGrov | My dream scenario is that Elop announces the resignation of McDowell, Öistämö, Savander and the rest of these "high-end" executives and get down and dirty and clears house once and for all. | 02:08 |
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| DrGrov | And in the process keeps Symbian as the main platform and keeps the MeeGo view open and integrates it when it is suitable | 02:09 |
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| Gorroth | well, i still wanna see meego happen | 02:10 |
| DrGrov | I would not care so much about this otherwise except that after the N97 I promised myself to never go with Nokia if they do not do something to bring the joy back. The N8 somehow gives that joy back, at least a bit. But still a long way to go. | 02:10 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: Me too, I really want MeeGo to happen. For me that is the logical next step in developing Nokia in the right direction. | 02:10 |
| Gorroth | i think so too | 02:10 |
| DrGrov | Android for me is too crowded already with Samsung, HTC etc. | 02:11 |
| DrGrov | No need to crowd it even more with Nokia also competing in a segment that is way overcrowded. | 02:12 |
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| DrGrov | Gorroth: Would you stick with Nokia even if they go with Windows Phone 7 ? | 02:12 |
| Gorroth | nah | 02:12 |
| Gorroth | i don't really stick with them as it is | 02:12 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: Ok :) | 02:13 |
| jonwil | I would not buy a Windows Phone phone from anyone, Nokia included | 02:13 |
| Gorroth | i have my n900, but i really just use my nexus one | 02:13 |
| DrGrov | jonwil: I agree with you on that. | 02:13 |
| Gorroth | oh, i don't think windows phone looks bad, but it needs some backend work on some things that bother me | 02:13 |
| Gorroth | like SD card expansion and what not | 02:13 |
| DrGrov | I think that Nokia could fix those issues but would the customers still believe in Nokia? | 02:14 |
| DrGrov | Damn this Mr. Elop! You have mixed up my brain completely with your crypting sayings LOL | 02:15 |
| Gorroth | all they need are some compelling products; people are fickle | 02:15 |
| Per_n900 | Gorroth, there is also the issue of trust. MS cant and should not be trusted with anything, and google is no better. But I guess everybody values different tings. | 02:15 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: I completely agree with you on that Google can not be trusted. | 02:15 |
| Gorroth | Per_n900: that's a personal decision. i have no problem using google and/or microsoft | 02:16 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: I have tried to tell my wife that not to trust Google with too much information etc. She has a Galaxy S at the moment. | 02:16 |
| Gorroth | i have a nexus one, and i love giving google my info | 02:16 |
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| DrGrov | I think my wife is a bit of a nerd actually like me :) | 02:16 |
| Gorroth | anything i wouldn't care about someone knowing anyway | 02:16 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: Yeah, then it is no worries there. It is a personal preference anyhow :) | 02:17 |
| DrGrov | My wife actually told me to try and come to sleep some time tonight.... That is 3 hours ago already :D | 02:17 |
| DrGrov | Seems like I'm not going to bed :D | 02:17 |
| Gorroth | heh | 02:17 |
| Per_n900 | Google and NSA are homies since a long time back, and I really do not like the NSA or any other agency like that. | 02:18 |
| Gorroth | i have some differential equations to do in a while. i want to prove a theorem "i came up with" to directly solve exact first-order linear ODEs | 02:18 |
| jonwil | I think the lack of control over Windows Phone that Microsoft gives OEMs would hurt nokia | 02:18 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: I do agree with you on that last thing you said about not trusting agencies like the NSA or similar agencies. | 02:18 |
| Gorroth | so i can then use that on my homework | 02:18 |
| Per_n900 | But I am slightly paranoid when it comes tho things like that. | 02:18 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Paranoid, well that is a perfectly good approach to things today. I am also paranoid, slightly though only | 02:19 |
| DrGrov | jonwil: You mean Nokia would lose the control of the products they develop? | 02:19 |
| jonwil | yes, Microsoft places too many hardware and software limits on OEMs | 02:20 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: You better not rely on my answers regarding anything mathematical nor such things LOL :) | 02:20 |
| Gorroth | haha :) | 02:20 |
| Gorroth | i actually know that more advanced people know theorems better than this, but it was awesome discovering this with a question the professor asked | 02:21 |
| Gorroth | because now i can solve them all in a couple steps vs. the 10 steps the others will use | 02:21 |
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| DrGrov | Gorroth: Give me an example. Dying to know :) | 02:21 |
| Gorroth | i take it you know what a total derivative of a multivariate function is? | 02:22 |
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| DrGrov | jonwil: Agree with you. Microsoft is locking their "stuff" and only keep the key themselves. That can and would seriously hurt Nokia. | 02:22 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: Sure | 02:22 |
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| DrGrov | Gorroth: Let's say so | 02:22 |
| jonwil | I think Microsoft is locking things down for what it believes are good reasons though | 02:23 |
| Gorroth | DrGrov: well, a total differential of a function is also known as an exact equation in first-order ODEs | 02:23 |
| DrGrov | Gorroth: NO! I do not want to know anymore! Too much information! LOL! | 02:23 |
| Gorroth | and in this case, you can use some sort of method to solve them, but it takes several steps, depending on how many variables there are | 02:23 |
| Gorroth | ok :) | 02:23 |
| Gorroth | actually, i have to eat | 02:23 |
| wmarone | jonwil: sure, anything that keeps users in their ecosystem is a good reason, for them | 02:23 |
| DrGrov | jonwil: Yes, they presume and think their reasons are good. | 02:24 |
| DrGrov | I would think Nokias ecosystem would be lost somehow if adapting Microsofts ecosystem thinking. | 02:24 |
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| DrGrov | Where would Ovi be put for example? | 02:24 |
| DrGrov | It would be like shooting yourself in the leg somehow. | 02:25 |
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| DrGrov | But perhaps things would be solved, not too confident though if Windows Phone is the right way to go. | 02:26 |
| DrGrov | I strongly still believe MeeGo is the answer for Nokia. | 02:26 |
| ieatlint | there's something really kind of morbidly funny at the prospect of nokia ditching linux for windows :P | 02:27 |
| DrGrov | And as I said already, getting rid of too much "yes-yes executives" would be a good thing to start from | 02:27 |
| DrGrov | ieatlint: It sure is, now that you say it in a sentence LOL | 02:27 |
| * jonwil wonders what the easiest way to wire up to a DBUS signal would be | 02:27 | |
| ieatlint | well, it's reasonable to believe they're looking at diversifying | 02:28 |
| ieatlint | not dropping meego, but still using another platform... | 02:28 |
| ieatlint | if they bring qt to windows mobile 7, it'll be interesting | 02:28 |
| ieatlint | and they better be damned clear tomorrow about what's happening at least.. suspense hurts everyone, especially their stock price | 02:29 |
| jonwil | WM is .net only | 02:29 |
| jonwil | is there a QT port for .net? | 02:29 |
| ieatlint | indeed... so unlikely for qt | 02:29 |
| ieatlint | but it'd be interesting :P | 02:29 |
| Per_n900 | .not mm ah yes. | 02:29 |
| ieatlint | watch them come up with a QML interpretor that can run in .net | 02:29 |
| DrGrov | ieatlint: They sure as hell need to be clear tomorrow. It is painful to see Nokia wandering about without any "purpose". | 02:30 |
| DrGrov | As a Finn I do hate this current Nokia state that they are in. Nothing happening, just promises after promises and no delivery. | 02:31 |
| ieatlint | finland is going to get screwed by it all.. | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ieatlint: The alternative is that tomorrow, they open-source _everything_ - and provide free hardware docs and everything. | 02:31 |
| jonwil | Good news everyone. I am seeing "incoming_cell_broadcast" in my syslog | 02:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | jonwil: :) | 02:32 |
| ieatlint | the leaked memo already says they're moving major operations out of espoo | 02:32 |
| DrGrov | I consider myself a quite good loyal customer since I have bought the N97, N900, N8 and countless of phones over the years. | 02:32 |
| ieatlint | and they just bought a massive building out here in silicon valley | 02:32 |
| jonwil | I am definatly not loyal to Nokia. | 02:32 |
| DrGrov | I am not going to be a loyal customer much longer though | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I consider myself a loyal customer since I bought both my phones from nokia over the years. | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | 3310 -> n900 | 02:33 |
| ieatlint | hah | 02:33 |
| DrGrov | SpeedEvil: :) | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I hope the n900 will last as well. | 02:33 |
| ieatlint | well i know that part of tomorrow's announcement will be to push their "calling all innovators" stuff for the n8 | 02:33 |
| DrGrov | Yeah, Finland will be screwed. But the politicians in this country are all a bunch of yes-yes persons doing the best for themselves. | 02:33 |
| ieatlint | will be a new offer to try and get more people into it | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Fart apps of the world unite! | 02:33 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: hey, by that logic I'm then a Nokia fanboy! | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yaySatellite C_NO satellite_cno Value range: 0 to 63 Satellite code phase Fractional GPS chips fractional_chips Value range: 0 to 1023 ;; Doppler doppler Value range: -32768 to 32767 ;; Multipath indicator multipath_indicator Constant:... ;; Pseudo range RMS error pr_rms_error Value range: 0 to 63 | 02:34 |
| jonwil | Scandinavians have invented some cool products and brands | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ^^^ | 02:35 |
| DrGrov | jonwil: Yes they have. For example Swedish smokeless tobacco known as SNUS! =) | 02:35 |
| DrGrov | jonwil: Yes they have. For example Swedish smokeless tobacco known as SNUS! =) | 02:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Oooh! | 02:35 |
| jonwil | Nokia (inventor of the best phone ever made :), IKEA, SAAB, LEGO to name a few | 02:35 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov: Ah snus! You like grov I presume? | 02:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm. | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Is fractinal GPS chips an integer? | 02:36 |
| * jonwil has an apartment full of IKEA furniture | 02:36 | |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Sure do ;-) My lip is full of Grov Lös at the moment. No, Grov portion but I will crack up a good can of pure ultra fresh Grov Lös right about now. | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Satellite code phase Fractional GPS chips fractional_chips Value range: 0 to 1023 | 02:36 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: I like Ettan as well. I keep changing from brand to brand but always go back somehow to Grov. | 02:37 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov, have yo tried göteborgs rape? | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Sure - is that an integer I meant. | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, sure | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 02:37 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: I have always 3-5 different flavors in the fridge and freezer. Stockpiling :) Yes of course, Göteborgs Rape I have as well about 1 roll (10 cans). | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | size in bytes: 2 | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Satellite code phase Whole GPS chips whole_chips Value range: 0 to 1022 | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Pity - that gives a resolution of ... 300m on the code phase. | 02:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | Where's this from? | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | zip:/home/jr/Documents/N900/docs/Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip/i_modem_lcs_wm_isi_m.html#MODEM_LCS_PSEUDO_RANGE_DATA_SEQ_001_000 | 02:38 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov, I really like göteborgs! I Smoke, and when I tried to replace cigarettes with snus, well... Now i smoke and do snus :) | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:38 |
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| * jonwil hates people who smoke | 02:40 | |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Me too :) I smoke 2-4 cigarettes per day and using snus about 1-1,5 can per day. I've been snusing for the past 15 years, 16 years later this year. | 02:40 |
| jonwil | Seeing a family member in hospital with cancer caused by smoking will do that to ya | 02:40 |
| BugBlue | snus... | 02:40 |
| BugBlue | isn't that illegal here? | 02:40 |
| Kilroo | On IRC? | 02:40 |
| DrGrov | jonwil: I have seen that as well. A relative though. | 02:40 |
| BugBlue | no in the EU Kilroo | 02:41 |
| BugBlue | it's illegal to sell in the EU except sweden | 02:41 |
| Kilroo | Ah. | 02:41 |
| Per_n900 | BugBlue: where?? Snus illegal, I would hate that... | 02:41 |
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| DrGrov | BugBlue: No, it is legal to use but illegal to sell except Sweden | 02:41 |
| Kilroo | I'm going to go on not knowing what you mean, because it amuses me to sit here and think "Well, my alarm clock has a snus button." | 02:41 |
| DrGrov | My next snus stockpiling will be a gigantic stockpiling | 02:41 |
| DrGrov | Kilroo: Snus is a smokeless tobacco product made in Sweden. | 02:42 |
| Per_n900 | haha the snusbutton :) | 02:42 |
| Sc0rpius | I stopped smoking like 11 years ago | 02:42 |
| BugBlue | DrGrov: yes, that's what I said :) | 02:42 |
| jonwil | why is it illegal then? | 02:42 |
| jonwil | what makes it different to regular tobacco | 02:42 |
| Sc0rpius | smokeless or nicotineless? | 02:43 |
| BugBlue | javispedro: because they outlawed selling it in 1992 after alarming research | 02:43 |
| BugBlue | sweden got exception when joining the EU in 1994 | 02:43 |
| Sc0rpius | Sweden... Yngve Malmsteen is from there"! | 02:43 |
| Sc0rpius | that's all I know about Sweden :( | 02:43 |
| BugBlue | javispedro: sorry, I ment jonwil | 02:43 |
| BugBlue | ETAB-- | 02:44 |
| Per_n900 | Malmsteen is all you need to know about sweden really :) | 02:44 |
| DrGrov | That "alarming research" was not conducted with Swedish snus but American version of snus | 02:44 |
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| jonwil | Scandinavia ftw | 02:46 |
| DrGrov | Yes, Scandinavia ftw | 02:46 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov, you dont speak swedish do you? | 02:47 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Jo, jag talar svenska. | 02:47 |
| Kilroo | Doesn't Sweden also have some kind of like...tar-flavored candy? | 02:47 |
| DrGrov | Kilroo: In Finland we have it as well. | 02:47 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov, fantastiskt! )ag är obildad, varför gör så många finnar det? | 02:47 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Inte så många egentligen. Ca 5,5% eller 6% vad det nu är är finlandssvenskar. Alltså är tvåspråkiga. | 02:48 |
| Per_n900 | Kilroo, yes, and we eat rotten fish from cans a few times a year, rather strange really. | 02:48 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Det beror på att många av tvåspråkiga bor på västkusten av Finland. Egentligen från Karleby i norr till Åbo och Helsingfors i söder. | 02:49 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: Endera förälder är oftast finsk eller svensk och vice versa. Min pappa är svenskspråkig och mamma finskspråkig. | 02:49 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov, I have learned something new! I tried to learn finnish when I dated a finnish girl, but its a hard language. | 02:50 |
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| DrGrov | Per_n900: It sure is a difficult language. | 02:52 |
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| DrGrov | Per_n900: From which part of Sweden are you? | 02:52 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov: My family is scatterd all around the country, but I used to live in stockholm until very recently. I got fed up with people there, quit my job and moved to dalarna, right in the middle of nowhere. | 02:54 |
| Proteous | I prefer rotten grapes or barley | 02:54 |
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| Per_n900 | DrGrov: and I am one of the people that thinks that our modern way of living is coming to an end, and it is wise to prepare for change in any way one can, hence the move to a less crowded area. | 02:57 |
| pupnik | where's dalarna? | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I really love those names: MODEM_LCS_RRC_POS_MEASURED_RESULT_REQ | 02:57 |
| pupnik | Per_n900: | 02:57 |
| pupnik | oh nm | 02:58 |
| Per_n900 | pupnik, dalarna is kind of in the middle of sweden. | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | the REQuest is actually the result of a GPS fix, while MODEM_LCS_RRC_POS_MEASURED_RESULT_RESP is just a short ACK on that | 02:58 |
| pupnik | what kind of work Per_n900 ? | 02:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Wireless Modem API - another nice way to lose your mind | 03:01 |
| Per_n900 | pupnik: I used to do security systems for banks, prisons and places like that, if that was what you was asking. | 03:01 |
| pupnik | neato | 03:01 |
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| * DocScrutinizer tries desparately to wipe those flyshits of his screen... åååååå | 03:04 | |
| jonwil | so anyone here know anything about dbus signals? | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | off* | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | few | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's got to know about them? | 03:06 |
| jonwil | How can I talk to one | 03:06 |
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| javispedro | "talk to a signal"? | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | somebody is sending them, and you may listen, ...or not | 03:06 |
| jonwil | thats whta I mean | 03:06 |
| jonwil | how can I listen to one | 03:06 |
| jonwil | I can see it in dbus-monitor | 03:06 |
| jonwil | now I want to wire up to it and dump the data | 03:06 |
| javispedro | well you first have to choose a dbus binding.. | 03:06 |
| javispedro | either low level, or glib's ones. | 03:06 |
| javispedro | if it's low level google for dbus_add_watch | 03:07 |
| javispedro | if it's glibs one it's just getting the proxy object and listening to normal glib signals, it will convert them for you | 03:07 |
| Sc0rpius | wow | 03:07 |
| Sc0rpius | DocScrutinizer you never sleep`? | 03:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer BURPs on proxy objects | 03:08 | |
| Sc0rpius | 'cos I can see you talking here 24/7 with no breaks | 03:08 |
| javispedro | sleep is for the weak! | 03:08 |
| Sc0rpius | and it's actually 2 am where you are? | 03:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no, I faked your [CTCP] CTCP-TIME-req answer :-P | 03:08 |
| Sc0rpius | :( | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it's 2:09 on my PC | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you're right, I should try and get some breakfast | 03:11 |
| Sc0rpius | haha | 03:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sc0rpius: I'm too old to sleep | 03:16 |
| Sc0rpius | don't worry, you'll sleep when you're dead | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly :-D | 03:17 |
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| jonwil | anyone know how to use dbus_bus_add_match? | 03:29 |
| jonwil | cant find anything of value on google | 03:29 |
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| DrGrov | Damn I hate this waiting | 03:35 |
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| DrGrov | Anyone own a Nokia N8 ? | 03:47 |
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| pupnik | no | 03:49 |
| DrGrov | Ok | 03:50 |
| DrGrov | Just thought, haven't got any confirmation about the new PR 1.1 firmware... | 03:50 |
| DrGrov | Not sure though how someone can get it before others. | 03:50 |
| DrGrov | Does Nokia always do firmware upgrades in steps and make it available in different regions on different times? | 03:51 |
| pupnik | i don't know | 03:51 |
| DrGrov | Ok, thanks though. | 03:51 |
| DrGrov | Gotta be patient and still wait | 03:51 |
| pupnik | how do you like the n8? | 03:52 |
| DrGrov | Beginning of week is more likely next month | 03:52 |
| DrGrov | I do love the N8 | 03:52 |
| pupnik | i think its' beautiful | 03:52 |
| pupnik | and wow, what a camera | 03:52 |
| DrGrov | I agree, it is beautiful | 03:52 |
| DrGrov | Yes, the camera is extremely good | 03:52 |
| DrGrov | Makes absolutely fantastic close up pictures | 03:52 |
| pupnik | i did some comparisons to the n900 camera | 03:52 |
| pupnik | and it was better | 03:52 |
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| DrGrov | Not done any 720p HD video yet since I have not found anything to film but hopefully I will find something come spring | 03:53 |
| pupnik | but i find the n900 camera good enough | 03:53 |
| DrGrov | Yes, I liked the N900 camera as well. Good enough pictures and clearly good to use on a daily basis. | 03:53 |
| DrGrov | The N8 though I gotta love even if I have taken some longer distance pictures. | 03:54 |
| DrGrov | pupnik: You've seen some nice videos with the N8 and its 720p HD video capture? | 03:54 |
| pupnik | mmm. i never tried that | 03:55 |
| pupnik | just took some comparison pics | 03:55 |
| DrGrov | Ok | 03:55 |
| pupnik | the styling is beautiful on n8 | 03:55 |
| pupnik | so much better than asian stuff | 03:56 |
| DrGrov | I do not like the HTC way of styling the phone | 03:56 |
| pupnik | i would have preferred the N8 with a kickstand | 03:57 |
| DrGrov | pupnik: This has to be my favorite N8 video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r8Hm-GKvJ4 | 03:57 |
| DrGrov | Yes, now that you mention it. It feels difficult to watch a movie with the N8 without the kickstand | 03:58 |
| pupnik | are you happy with the OS? it seemed fine to me except for the lockups | 03:59 |
| DrGrov | What lockups? | 03:59 |
| pupnik | well i didn't see the recent releases | 03:59 |
| DrGrov | I have had no issues with lockups | 04:00 |
| pupnik | good | 04:00 |
| DrGrov | Ah well, today with Ovi Maps it kind of locked up due to my mistake. | 04:00 |
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| pupnik | i was thinking of selling my camera and getting the n8 | 04:00 |
| pupnik | but it would have still been too expensive for me | 04:01 |
| DrGrov | I was pressing a few times extra since it lagged a bit so I got a error that I can not do that | 04:01 |
| pupnik | ah | 04:01 |
| pupnik | that is often a torture test for software | 04:01 |
| DrGrov | But that is just not a problem luckily. | 04:01 |
| DrGrov | I just exited the Maps and re-entered and no issues nor problems | 04:01 |
| pupnik | i don't see why people say symbian can't be modern | 04:02 |
| DrGrov | Yeah, me neither. | 04:02 |
| DrGrov | I really love Symbian since it makes at least my life a whole lot easier | 04:02 |
| DrGrov | I think it is modern in its own way. | 04:02 |
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| pupnik | it's just a belief that has spread among the phone crowd | 04:03 |
| DrGrov | Yes, unfortunately people tend to go with what is the "in" of the moment. | 04:03 |
| DrGrov | Symbian "was" in but not anymore. | 04:03 |
| DrGrov | I will not go back to an Android OS based phone. I have the Galaxy 3, the mini Galaxy S and I must say I am far from satisfied. | 04:04 |
| pupnik | interesting! | 04:04 |
| DrGrov | Why interesting!? :) | 04:04 |
| pupnik | not many people have experience with both | 04:04 |
| DrGrov | Ah yes, that is true. | 04:05 |
| pupnik | maemo is fun for me because i know how to make it do what i want | 04:05 |
| DrGrov | Yes, I love Maemo too :) | 04:05 |
| DrGrov | I had it do what I wanted but still it found a better home. I sold it for a reasonable and cheap price for my cousin. | 04:06 |
| pupnik | is he a linux person? | 04:06 |
| DrGrov | Yes, he is. He is the reason I got into Linux in the first place. | 04:06 |
| pupnik | i don't think maemo needed to be abandoned. just a few more 800x480 phones | 04:07 |
| pupnik | bigger, smaller... | 04:07 |
| pupnik | cheaper, more expensive | 04:07 |
| pupnik | so much effort got thrown away | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 04:08 |
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| pupnik | none of my annoyances were unfixable | 04:09 |
| DrGrov | No, Maemo could easily co-exist with Meego/Symbian if Nokia tells that tomorrow. | 04:09 |
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| DrGrov | I do not see the problem. | 04:09 |
| pupnik | and there's a lot of fun software for it now. put on speakers that don't need software filtering. oled display... | 04:10 |
| pupnik | 4 row keyboard | 04:10 |
| pupnik | 1500mAh+ battery | 04:10 |
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| pupnik | let ppl install meego on the same device if they want | 04:12 |
| pupnik | maybe a modular camera system | 04:12 |
| APTX | not really a linux person myself, but I like being able to do what I want with my phone | 04:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik: The camera is already replacable. | 04:15 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Admittedly, there aren't anysuitable replacement cameras AIUI | 04:15 |
| pupnik | ah | 04:15 |
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| pupnik | it looked detachable indeed | 04:16 |
| DrGrov | pupnik: Will Meego somehow be a fully functional thing on the N900 eventually? | 04:17 |
| pupnik | i don't know | 04:17 |
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| DrGrov | pupnik: I hope so, then I will get myself a N900 again :) | 04:21 |
| pupnik | i wish for slightly improved device | 04:21 |
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| pupnik | is not so impossible :( | 04:23 |
| pupnik | but nokia wants to make giant steps | 04:24 |
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| * jonwil wonders who around here might be able to ping the right people at Nokia about getting the correct GPS/LCS info/packet formats for the N900 | 04:26 | |
| jonwil | which is one of the 5 pieces of info I wish I had at this point | 04:26 |
| pupnik | eh | 04:27 |
| pupnik | would 'gpsmon' help you? | 04:27 |
| jonwil | nope, it wont | 04:30 |
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| jonwil | whats needed is documentation on the packet formats and messages for the specific isi/phonet cell modem firmware on the N900 | 04:30 |
| jonwil | those that apply to the N900 | 04:31 |
| blackthorne | Hi | 04:31 |
| blackthorne | Anyone tried chat roulette on the n900? | 04:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | the camera does not work with flash. | 04:32 |
| blackthorne | Ohhhh | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: what's missing/different? | 04:34 |
| DrGrov | Damn this waiting for 9:30 AM Finnish time | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: aiui the ofono people used that spec we mentioned before | 04:34 |
| jonwil | well GPS is definatly different | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's possible | 04:35 |
| jonwil | liblas is sending packets to a resource ID 84 | 04:35 |
| blackthorne | SpeedEvil: Does the cam works with html5? | 04:35 |
| jonwil | and yet PN_MODEM_LCS in those headers is 144 | 04:35 |
| jonwil | It would also be very usefull to know what values of AT_MODEM_ISI_VERSION, MODEM_CALL_ISI_VERSION, SMS_ISI_VERSION etc match the N900 cellmo firmware | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet there's a way to query cmt | 04:38 |
| flat` | 0nnnnpppoà | 04:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flat`: ???? | 04:39 |
| blackthorne | damn, vimeo doesn't work on the n900. How do they dare to use it on the official website as a flash showoff | 04:40 |
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| jonwil | so yeah it would be good to get the right GPS info for N900 cellmo firmware. With that, someone could write open-source GPS for MeeGo and go down that route instead of waiting for Nokia to port liblas, location-daemon, location-proxy etc :) | 04:56 |
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| blackthorne | why is everyone so annoyed about n900 gps all the time? | 04:59 |
| blackthorne | does it have a problem? | 04:59 |
| fellu | I dont have any problem with it | 05:00 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: You are in Germany, right? | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mhm | 05:05 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: You are not tired? Time over there is 04:05? | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 05:06 |
| jonwil | I have no problem with N900 GPS | 05:06 |
| DrGrov | Just wondering, you seem to be like me. Like being up during the nights | 05:06 |
| jonwil | but people using MeeGo on N900 with a non-working GPS certainly do | 05:07 |
| yigal | not like me 7pm in old California | 05:10 |
| yigal | no burning the midnight oil | 05:11 |
| yigal | ok so you weren't actually chit chatting | 05:11 |
| yigal | owell my bad | 05:12 |
| yigal | just saying temperature in the 70s with blue skys in Winter isn't too bad | 05:13 |
| * johnx shakes first at you from the still coolish/dampish north | 05:13 | |
| yigal | :D | 05:14 |
| * jonwil wishes he had some headers for libisi (or some other n900 code for sending isi packets so I could test stuff out) | 05:14 | |
| yigal | yes, sorry Southern California it's really a country in its own right | 05:14 |
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| jonwil | Its too hard to disconnect the ofono isi code from the rest of ofono :P | 05:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | yigal: only places not freezing to death are CA and FL | 05:15 |
| yigal | ya it's just our economy that's frozen over | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | nah, it's US moral that's at 0 kelvin | 05:22 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, jeez. Who pissed in your cheerios :P | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fsckng killing innocent Reuters reporters, helping Dads and possibly also childs (shit, missed them), then asking for same treatment for the ones publishing the video | 05:24 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: What happening is that about? Egypt or? | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, even WE over here are ashamed for the USA for being on same planet | 05:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | nah, Iraq | 05:26 |
| yigal | lol | 05:26 |
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| yigal | that's the new product from Apple right, the iRack? | 05:27 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, sooo, just FYI, when make you sweeping generalizations about all the people in a country, it tends to make people feel defensive | 05:27 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: Ah yes, you have also seen the documentary on ITV called The War You Don't See? | 05:27 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: I can recommend that documentary for you which tells very much in case you haven't seen it. | 05:28 |
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| pupnik | I think i saw part of that | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what about generalization when here everybody been a nazi? | 05:29 |
| pupnik | btw anyone in GB wants some great noodle-paste i'm putting together another order | 05:29 |
| pupnik | GB/UK | 05:29 |
| yigal | Jew in California | 05:29 |
| DrGrov | johnx: I kind of agree with DocScrutinizer on that thing but though I believe the problem is more the government, not the people. | 05:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | those wo don't speak out loud and stand up against are as guilty as the frontmen | 05:30 |
| pupnik | i agree with DocScrutinizer51 of course | 05:31 |
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| yigal | there's speaking and then there's action and both are necessary in pov | 05:31 |
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| johnx | DrGrov, I was against the war in Afghanistan, to say nothing of Iraq. I voted against Bush. | 05:31 |
| johnx | If you want to alienate people who agree with you, go ahead though | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | here in Germany a radio or TV moderator or politician honestly suggesting to kill Asange would go to prison | 05:32 |
| DrGrov | johnx: That is not my intention. | 05:32 |
| johnx | DrGrov, right. that last one wasn't aimed at you ;) | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | in US you get visitors | 05:32 |
| DrGrov | johnx: Ok, no problem :) | 05:32 |
| johnx | should have prefixed it with the right nick. my bad ... | 05:32 |
| DrGrov | johnx: Good, I was also against the war in Afghanistan and of course more so Iraq. Never Bush. | 05:33 |
| DrGrov | johnx: But I do have my own non American reasons for those opinions though. Nothing to do with the people but as I mentioned more to do with the politicians. | 05:34 |
| johnx | I dearly wish we could figure out a way to fix our voting system to make it easier for third parties to gain ground | 05:34 |
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| johnx | well, figuring it out is one thing, getting it enacted is another | 05:34 |
| DrGrov | I really do hope Assange gets out clear and free from those rape accusations | 05:34 |
| yigal | johnx: it's rediculous right now | 05:34 |
| yigal | the number of | 05:34 |
| yigal | representatives per citizen | 05:35 |
| DrGrov | Perhaps it's just me but I feel that the American government is sticking its nose into business that is not theirs to be decided | 05:35 |
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| yigal | yes well that's in general what the world does | 05:35 |
| DrGrov | johnx: What is the general opinion of Barack Obama in the U.S ? | 05:35 |
| yigal | bad for local business | 05:35 |
| johnx | DrGrov, generally positive I think. Though I'm here in Seattle and politics tend to be pretty liberal around here | 05:36 |
| DrGrov | johnx: I see. I think Obama could perhaps be a long term solution to gain some kind of stability. | 05:36 |
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| johnx | If he can manage to keep the healt care reform from getting killed, I think he'll have had an overall positive impact | 05:37 |
| yigal | yes but have you been following the abortion issues surrounding the health care measure | 05:37 |
| DrGrov | Yes, I have. It is insane | 05:37 |
| yigal | yes, I really hope we can get something reasonable passed | 05:37 |
| johnx | yigal, not as closely as I should have (/me reads the cliff notes) | 05:37 |
| yigal | johnx: it's pretty bad, imo | 05:38 |
| pupnik | non-interventionism is a clear, constitutional credo | 05:38 |
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| yigal | best of wishes gentlemen I'm off | 05:40 |
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| DrGrov | pupnik: Care to get the link for that documentary? | 05:43 |
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| pupnik | http://www.viddler.com/explore/TruceAssholes/videos/7/ [ The War You Don't See - John Pilger ] | 05:45 |
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| jonwil | I dont think ANY politician has been willing to consider REAL healthcare reform in a way that delivers better outcomes for people | 07:56 |
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| RobbieThe1st | jonwil: Of course not. It wouldn't make them money. | 08:00 |
| jonwil | REAL reform means introducing genuine competition so people can switch to a cheaper provider anytime they like without loss of cover | 08:00 |
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| jonwil | and it means an end to the "corporate health plan" and the large number of people who cant afford to quit their job in case they cant find a new one with coverage | 08:01 |
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| jonwil | Australia has it right, they have basic health-care for everyone plus a large choice of private health care options for better service in hospitals or for coverage of things like dental work, glasses etc | 08:04 |
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| mece | hello | 08:05 |
| jonwil | hi | 08:05 |
| mece | It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. | 08:06 |
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| jonwil | its up now | 08:12 |
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| * rtyler is sad | 08:15 | |
| pupnik | why? | 08:15 |
| rtyler | if meego is canned, what will my successor to the n900 be :( | 08:15 |
| pupnik | who says it is? | 08:16 |
| rtyler | awafaa of openSUSE fame posted about MeeGo for netbooks dying out, then this: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/us-nokia-meego-idUSTRE71832O20110209 | 08:16 |
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| RST38h | rtyler: It is absolutely clear we are all gonna die. | 08:18 |
| RST38h | rtyler: Andtheendoftheworldiscoming too | 08:19 |
| pupnik | Hasn't it been obvious that maemo and now meego needed to be on a variety of devices? | 08:20 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Obvious to whom? | 08:20 |
| pupnik | us old hats | 08:20 |
| RST38h | pupnik: If you ask Stskeeps for example, he is quite happy hacking at the core OS, does not need it to be onany devices | 08:20 |
| rtyler | heh | 08:21 |
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| rtyler | pupnik: I think Nokia just doesn't have the cajones to build a tablet and a smartphone | 08:21 |
| rtyler | both of which meego could do well at | 08:21 |
| RST38h | OMG we have got another armchair analyst | 08:22 |
| pupnik | how about a 3", a 4" and a 5" phone? | 08:22 |
| wmarone | rtyler: nvidia is a logic/silicon company, not a smartphone/tablet company | 08:22 |
| wmarone | I'm sure they're plenty happy to just sell chips into other devices | 08:22 |
| rtyler | s/nvidia/nokia I presume? | 08:22 |
| wmarone | ah yes | 08:23 |
| * wmarone needs to go to bed | 08:23 | |
| rtyler | heh | 08:23 |
| wmarone | I just took the tegra powered tablet I had back to the store | 08:23 |
| RST38h | why? | 08:23 |
| wmarone | useless | 08:23 |
| * rtyler find tablets boring tbh | 08:23 | |
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| RST38h | wmarone: in what way? | 08:23 |
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| wmarone | RST38h: for all the reasons I should have known better, and bought my N900 for | 08:24 |
| wmarone | too big, no real use, and wifi only | 08:24 |
| wmarone | oh and the terrible TN screen | 08:24 |
| RST38h | well, has to be pocketable, as I have said before :) | 08:24 |
| wmarone | right | 08:24 |
| RST38h | otherwise, a laptop does just as well and better | 08:24 |
| wmarone | my goal was to get meego running on it, and I did to a degree | 08:25 |
| pupnik | except no battery life | 08:25 |
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| wmarone | RST38h: yes, I plan on redirecting the money towards an E-350 based netbook at some point | 08:25 |
| wmarone | now that my aspire one can barely hold itself together :/ | 08:25 |
| RST38h | netbook != laptop | 08:25 |
| wmarone | sure | 08:26 |
| RST38h | pupnik: modern laptops can do 6-8 hours | 08:26 |
| pupnik | but the standby sucks | 08:26 |
| RST38h | pupnik: and you normally store them plugged in anyway | 08:26 |
| pupnik | i'm going to be using my thinkpad x200 tablet with wwan/gps for a while | 08:27 |
| pupnik | but with 1-2 spare batteries | 08:27 |
| pupnik | it can get about 8 hours with all powersaving on, screen brightness unusably dark | 08:29 |
| pupnik | and a brand new 4600mAh pack | 08:29 |
| pupnik | right now my real use is about 3 hours | 08:29 |
| RST38h | Lenovos suck and thusdo not count =) | 08:30 |
| pupnik | i looked a long time, didn't see anything i liked better | 08:31 |
| pupnik | a c-8 with 800x480 and maemo5 would make me real happy | 08:32 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Personally, I'd love to see a high-res, high-powered tablet PC with a Maemo 5 interface. It's -responsive-. | 08:34 |
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| qhubekela | nick Sicelo | 08:37 |
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| jonwil | Even the simplest looking parts of Maemo can be more complex | 09:02 |
| jonwil | like the cell operator name status bar widget :P | 09:02 |
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| Mece_ | hell | 09:19 |
| Mece_ | o | 09:19 |
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| Coke | Any idea how to get hold of EPS attachments from an e-mail? The email has one of them little icons for attachment, it's 24.5M and the author said "here are the originals for print" etc, yet I cannot find any menu option to save the attachments. How can I save/view them? | 09:27 |
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| Sazpaimon | well,it's 7:30. the finanial briefing press materials are going to be released any second now | 09:31 |
| Coke | How active is Maemo? If I file a bug on this (this problem has been consistant for the last year) is there any chance of an update? I mean, will Maemo get updates? | 09:32 |
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| skrullis | i started the meego rescue mode on my n900 through an initrd (i run maemo normally). The led shines yellow when booted. Is that a sign that it is charging? | 09:37 |
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| franz_ | http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft/ | 09:38 |
| Mece_ | Coke, well community ssu updates at least. | 09:39 |
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| Coke | What are ssu updates? | 09:39 |
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| Coke | Mece_: I noticed this bug last year, haven't seen any updates for it since. | 09:40 |
| * Mece_ facpalms as he reads the open letter | 09:41 | |
| Coke | I tried sylpheed (iirc), it works, but the UI really isn't adapted to a small screen. | 09:41 |
| Coke | It's as if the code testing to show "save attachments" option in the menu fails to see the attachments. | 09:41 |
| Coke | The code to test for that little clip icon works, it shows up. | 09:42 |
| Mece_ | Coke, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 09:44 |
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| Corsac | Mece_: is there a summary changelog for the CSSU? | 09:47 |
| Mece_ | Corsac, probably, dunno where. am to stunned by nokiawin7 fail | 09:49 |
| Mece_ | "Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year." | 09:50 |
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| sivang | hi all | 09:54 |
| trx2 | win phone... terrible | 09:54 |
| Corsac | Mece_: not too sure how well intel likes that :) | 09:55 |
| Corsac | the “strategic partnership” between them is a bit betrayed by that | 09:55 |
| Corsac | (though MS wasn't exactly happy to see Intel going the OS road) | 09:56 |
| trx2 | and what are intel's plans for meego? does anyone know? | 09:56 |
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| Corsac | trx2: don't think they intend to ship a device, though they do intend to have a handset UX running on top of intel hw | 09:57 |
| Corsac | (like aava stuff) | 09:57 |
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| Trewas | and they specifically say that microsoft tools will be used for development, bye bye qt | 10:00 |
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| jhb1 | just had a python-qt book arriving. Not worth reading it anymore? | 10:02 |
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| trx2 | why is this bye bye to qt? | 10:05 |
| jonwil | If Nokia wanted to kill whats left of their smartphone business, adopting Windows Mobile is the way to do it | 10:05 |
| trx2 | qt is cross platform | 10:05 |
| trx2 | i make qt apps for windows | 10:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | jonwil: Exactly what I'm thinking | 10:05 |
| jonwil | Even Android would be a far better fit for Nokia than Windows | 10:05 |
| trx2 | jonwil exactly | 10:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | Microsoft probably offered them a -lot- of money | 10:05 |
| jonwil | since with Android they could completly rewrite the userland for that famous "nokia experience" | 10:06 |
| Sazpaimon | so what happens to qt as a company | 10:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, they are still working on Meego apparently | 10:06 |
| Sazpaimon | no, they're still working on launching a meego product | 10:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | one device in the next year, and who knows what happens after that | 10:07 |
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| Sazpaimon | i mean after that, what happens to qt as a whole | 10:07 |
| Sazpaimon | nokia bought trolltech, did they not? | 10:07 |
| Shadikka | well, now Trollsoft bought Nokia | 10:07 |
| haj | god dammit.... | 10:08 |
| Sazpaimon | will they just abandon qt as a company? That would completely destroy their reputation from the OSS community | 10:08 |
| haj | some kind of phone with meego must show up... | 10:08 |
| Sazpaimon | who says it has to be a phone | 10:08 |
| Sazpaimon | it can just be some slate tablet | 10:09 |
| RobbieThe1st | I think QT'll stick around; if only with what Intel makes | 10:09 |
| toadpole | i read somewhere that MeeGo has been restructured into the computers department | 10:09 |
| haj | Sazpaimon: I say.. I don't want a tablet.. I want a smartphone ;) | 10:09 |
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| toadpole | so possibly it'll be for netbooks | 10:09 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, I'd be surprised if they don't throw a 3G+ phone module in whatever it is | 10:09 |
| RobbieThe1st | Considering the effort so far in making Meego work as phone software | 10:10 |
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| Coke | Qt lived before Nokia and will live after. | 10:10 |
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| Sazpaimon | qtlived because it had a company backing it | 10:11 |
| Coke | Now that it's LGPL it will probably continue growing in usage by others. | 10:11 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, definitely | 10:11 |
| Sazpaimon | the only thing I can hope is that nokia releases meego with it's UX experience and it can be flashed onto other devices | 10:11 |
| Coke | Forget about MeeGo. | 10:11 |
| Coke | Maemo will be the best mobile device platform for years to come. | 10:12 |
| Sazpaimon | meego's pretty much the same idea | 10:12 |
| Sazpaimon | just rpms instead of debs | 10:13 |
| Sazpaimon | but hey, you can install apt on fedora | 10:13 |
| Coke | it's not about the package manager | 10:13 |
| Coke | it's about how things are organized and the general philosophy | 10:13 |
| haj | Coke: It still would be nice to have a more powerfull device than the N900 for it.. | 10:13 |
| Coke | maemo is a fully fledged linux system that just has an UI slick enough to use on a phone | 10:13 |
| Coke | haj: yep. don't hold your breath. | 10:13 |
| haj | Coke: I'm not.. :) | 10:14 |
| Coke | Sazpaimon: in all fairness, I've only tried the intel meego | 10:14 |
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| Sazpaimon | i'd like to see forward ports of maemo, but quite frankly i dont see it happening | 10:14 |
| Coke | but that's the first stumbling block, vendors are trying to lock down their respective meego to their own hardware | 10:14 |
| Sazpaimon | besides, we haven't seen nokia's handset ux for meego | 10:14 |
| toadpole | you know, i love maemo and meego to death, but i have to say it just doesn't have the fluidity of iOS and android | 10:15 |
| Coke | Nokia is going to go with Winmo 7 and then leave the smartphone business forever. | 10:15 |
| Coke | toadpole: have you tried meego on a phone? | 10:15 |
| toadpole | yup, using it on an n900 | 10:15 |
| Coke | using the intel ui? | 10:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Toadpole: edit /etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini and set the value to 1 | 10:15 |
| Sazpaimon | Coke, that's the only UI available for meego | 10:16 |
| toadpole | ( RobbieThe1st ): whats that do? | 10:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | toadpole: Makes things "iphone-smooth", seriously | 10:16 |
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| Sazpaimon | nokia hasn't shown their UI yet. It was expected they would do it at the MWC, but now, who knows | 10:16 |
| Coke | toadpole: I tried using meego on a few devices, it crashes | 10:16 |
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| Sazpaimon | one has to wonder how long nokia and microsoft were in talks | 10:16 |
| Coke | In my book, MeeGo is not stable and not fit for use, not even on a laptop or netbook | 10:16 |
| toadpole | it wouldn't work on the two netbooks i tried it on | 10:16 |
| toadpole | some problem or the other | 10:17 |
| Shadikka | In other news, Nokia's stock is going dooooooown. | 10:17 |
| Sazpaimon | because there was an awful lot of silence from nokia in the last year | 10:17 |
| Shadikka | -9% at the moment. | 10:17 |
| Coke | Nokia had a great idea, but they didnt market it properly. Now they are desperate and desperate people do stupid things. | 10:17 |
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| Coke | they ditched the lead designer from one of the most popular hand held OS' on the planet in favour of a marketing guy from a company (MS) who havent done jack shit for the mobile or laptop market. | 10:18 |
| Coke | MS haven't improved anything on their system over the last 20 years | 10:18 |
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| Coke | that's who nokia intends to team up with | 10:19 |
| Coke | good plan. Apple will buy them for a nickle in five years | 10:19 |
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| Khertan | Morning all ! | 10:20 |
| Khertan | What cruel news this morning | 10:20 |
| jonwil | This move from Nokia is up there with "New Coke" on the list of "bad business decisions made by big companies" | 10:20 |
| RobbieThe1st | Coke: Nah; Microsoft could do -nothing- for their os, and it'd still give em loads of money for 20 years or more | 10:20 |
| RobbieThe1st | Cause of all the legacy software | 10:20 |
| jonwil | Windows Mobile has already been a flop | 10:21 |
| jonwil | WP7 that is | 10:21 |
| Coke | RobbieThe1st: true, the reason MS sucks is because the customers allow it | 10:21 |
| Coke | but they've lost a lot over the last 10 years | 10:21 |
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| Pavlov | its too early to throw in the towel on wp7 | 10:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | What... 7% of the desktop market? | 10:21 |
| VladNistor | http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488004 | 10:21 |
| Coke | apple has a significant chunk of the desktop market, they have an even bigger chunk of the laptop and well. They own mobile devices right now. | 10:21 |
| jonwil | desktop and mobile are 2 totally different things | 10:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | Eh, I threw in the wps towel when they tried to be like Apple | 10:22 |
| VladNistor | in case you missed the press release :) | 10:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | s/wps/wp7 | 10:22 |
| franz_ | even if wp7 were to really "save" nokia | 10:22 |
| franz_ | they are simply not relevant to me, personally, anymore | 10:22 |
| jonwil | The big mistake Microsoft made on WP7 is that they coped all the bad things from Apple (like the locked un-hackable OS) and none of the good things | 10:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 10:23 |
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| jonwil | Windows Mobile was so popular because the handsets (especially from HTC) were so hackable and customizable | 10:24 |
| ShadowJK | Gartner says it's even between symbian and android, with RIM and IOS both at 15% | 10:24 |
| jonwil | and you could write all sorts of apps with no need to pay anyone anything | 10:24 |
| Pavlov | 'Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.' | 10:24 |
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| Coke | jonwil: I always said that winmo 6.5 was better than ios and android | 10:24 |
| Coke | in fact, it's easier to write Qt apps on winmo than it is on Maemo | 10:24 |
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| Khertan | Pavlov: but with which support ? | 10:25 |
| Khertan | Pavlov: and did you think it ll be a success ... i don't ... how dev can believe in a plateform where the manufacturer do not believe in it | 10:25 |
| Khertan | Pavlov: so an other poor ecosystem | 10:26 |
| Pavlov | my crystal ball is a bit blurry | 10:26 |
| jonwil | I think if Nokia had chosen Android they could have really made something. Replace all the Android UI layer and UX with the "familiar nokia experience" (as one commercial | 10:26 |
| jonwil | one commercial I saw put it) | 10:26 |
| Pavlov | short term is hard to say | 10:26 |
| Coke | isnt it that douchebag Elop who instigated this bullshit? | 10:26 |
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| Pavlov | er, shor term not sure how it would work out | 10:26 |
| Pavlov | longer term, hard to say | 10:26 |
| jonwil | and then underneath the Nokia | 10:26 |
| jonwil | UI/UX, release a more open Android OS than other vendors are doing | 10:27 |
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| Coke | android is fucked from the start | 10:27 |
| Coke | plagued by a very bad design | 10:27 |
| Pavlov | hm? | 10:27 |
| Coke | its a bad hack version of linux with a bad hack of java on top | 10:27 |
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| Khertan | Pavlov: it ll be like maemo ... sidelined project, few support, few sell, few dev ... | 10:27 |
| Coke | had they used a proper linux system with support for native libraries, etc, it'd be different | 10:27 |
| Pavlov | Coke: native libs work fine on android | 10:28 |
| Pavlov | welcome to the ndk | 10:28 |
| Coke | Pavlov: then how come they have such a hard time porting qt? | 10:28 |
| Pavlov | "they"? | 10:28 |
| Coke | enthusiasts working with lighthouse | 10:28 |
| jonwil | Android isn't using X | 10:28 |
| Pavlov | dunno | 10:28 |
| jhb1 | Hi *, I think I made an error when modifying /etc/event.d/rcS-late, now the n900 won't boot anymore. Anything else besides reflashing? | 10:28 |
| Coke | how come I can't run my ARM quake 3 on it? etc | 10:28 |
| Pavlov | did you try? | 10:29 |
| Pavlov | my app on android is 99.9999% native code | 10:29 |
| Pavlov | and a lot of it | 10:29 |
| RobbieThe1st | jhb1: Unless you've got Backupmenu or something, no | 10:29 |
| Coke | Pavlov: what toolkit? | 10:29 |
| Pavlov | mostly our own | 10:29 |
| Coke | Can I run my PyQt apps that run on Maemo on android? | 10:29 |
| Coke | well then | 10:29 |
| Coke | I don't have time to write my own toolkit | 10:29 |
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| Coke | the fact of the matter is, Android is cut of from most linux things because of it's faulty design | 10:30 |
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| jhb1 | RobbieThe1st: ah, the daemons of backup got me again. I though 'I should install backupmenu, but didn't do. Should have.... Thanks for your advice | 10:30 |
| Pavlov | android isn't trying to be linux | 10:30 |
| Coke | The only hope for a decent platform right now is Intel morestown and MeeGo. | 10:30 |
| Pavlov | not in the slightest | 10:30 |
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| * melmoth just came to say goodbye :-) | 10:31 | |
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| jonwil | Why won't someone just sell a range of phones running a genuine Linux platform | 10:31 |
| Coke | Which cuts them off from seriously good software. | 10:31 |
| Coke | jonwil: intel is working on it | 10:31 |
| Coke | they have a developer version out | 10:31 |
| Khertan | Coke: python apps run on android | 10:31 |
| Coke | Khertan: not with Qt | 10:31 |
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| Khertan | Coke: not tryed yet | 10:32 |
| Coke | I'm not interrested in running a little snippet script, I'm interrested in porting a suite of applications | 10:32 |
| Coke | I want to run GIMP on my phone | 10:32 |
| jonwil | No way Intel will be successful with mobile phones | 10:32 |
| Coke | jonwil: no but perhaps some other mobile device | 10:32 |
| Khertan | Coke: i didn't want to run GIMP ... but want to be able to code pyqt apps on it | 10:32 |
| Coke | if they get a pad with phone capabilities I'll buy it | 10:32 |
| jonwil | I dont want a pad with 3G | 10:32 |
| Khertan | Coke: the best candidate is still n900 :) | 10:32 |
| Coke | Khertan: please let me know if you are successful | 10:33 |
| Coke | Khertan: I run pyqt on my n900 | 10:33 |
| jonwil | What I want is a mobile phone with all the important features of a modern smartphone | 10:33 |
| Coke | I want a real keyboard on my phone too | 10:33 |
| jonwil | but running a good Linux operating system | 10:33 |
| Khertan | Coke: :) I code directly on it :) (KhtEditor, Khweeteur, ....) | 10:33 |
| jonwil | with a physical qwerty keyboard | 10:33 |
| Coke | Khertan: when I dont have time to port I run X forwarding | 10:33 |
| Khertan | jonwil: +1 | 10:34 |
| Coke | Maemo is the most capapable mobile OS today and will be for some time unless MeeGo really gets going. | 10:34 |
| Khertan | Coke: indeed | 10:34 |
| Coke | One thing is certain though: no more Nokia phones for me. | 10:34 |
| Coke | I smelled bad intentions when I first heard Nokia had recruited the failure Elop | 10:35 |
| toadpole | the press release says: With Nokia's planned move to Windows Phone as its primary smartphone platform, Symbian becomes a franchise platform, leveraging previous investments to harvest additional value. | 10:35 |
| Mece_ | Coke, well it says they will release one meego device | 10:35 |
| jonwil | basically what I want is the hardware of the HTC Desire Z or Motorola Milestone, the open-source software base of MeeGo (and the general openness of MeeGo), the famous nokia UX and the level of support/updates/improvements of iOS | 10:35 |
| Coke | MS can't make software and are unable to sell devices, why get the leader of the losing team? | 10:35 |
| toadpole | whats that supposed to mean? no future symbian investment? | 10:35 |
| Khertan | oh my god ... -10,42% | 10:36 |
| Khertan | http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/shares/shareinformation?Instrument=HEX24311 | 10:36 |
| RobbieThe1st | Coke: MS probably payed them a rediculous amount | 10:36 |
| Coke | You think that's the case? | 10:36 |
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| Pavlov | toadpole: yeah, i wouldn't expect any real new symbian investment | 10:36 |
| Pavlov | run it out on the low end side of things | 10:37 |
| Pavlov | until it stops making money | 10:37 |
| Pavlov | is what i'd do! | 10:37 |
| jonwil | If MS has paid Nokia money for this, Nokia will have to disclose such information and we will find out soon enough | 10:37 |
| RobbieThe1st | You mean like Intel did? Until they got caught | 10:37 |
| Coke | jonwil: you don't know many accountants, do you? :) | 10:37 |
| Coke | Money isn't real, good accountants can do magic with it. | 10:38 |
| Pavlov | I actually think tihs is a decent move for nokia | 10:38 |
| Pavlov | but it is all in the details | 10:38 |
| toadpole | anyone know an android phone that was even half as good as the n9 could have been? | 10:38 |
| Coke | Except, nobody will buy their phones. | 10:38 |
| Pavlov | which aren't clear yet | 10:38 |
| Coke | what is MS market share? under 1% ? | 10:38 |
| Pavlov | where? | 10:38 |
| Pavlov | on mobile? | 10:38 |
| Coke | yes | 10:38 |
| Coke | on phones specifically | 10:38 |
| Pavlov | 2% in the US? | 10:39 |
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| dotblank | ugh windows phones | 10:39 |
| Pavlov | but that doesn't really mean anything | 10:39 |
| Pavlov | 2 years ago, android has 0 marketshare | 10:39 |
| Coke | every customer and software vendor I've seen looked at winmo 7, shook their heads and then ported from winmo 6.5 to ios or android | 10:39 |
| Khertan | it s funny elop talk about a good ecosystem is important, and day later he announce switch to wp7 which have a worst one than Meego | 10:39 |
| Coke | Pavlov: the difference is, Android is pretty solid | 10:39 |
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| Pavlov | WP7 is almost solid | 10:39 |
| dotblank | did he actually announce that? | 10:39 |
| Coke | Pavlov: no it isnt | 10:39 |
| Pavlov | yeah it is | 10:39 |
| Coke | Ok, we disagree then. | 10:39 |
| dotblank | that they are switching to WP7 | 10:40 |
| Pavlov | they need to release a native development kit | 10:40 |
| Pavlov | dotblank: yes | 10:40 |
| toadpole | ( Pavlov ): i wouldn't bet on it... it's an MS product, it'll take years to get it right | 10:40 |
| jonwil | I think Nokia's real problem was that they have nothing. Maemo was dead the moment MeeGo appeared and MeeGo is far from usable for a mainstream consumer smartphone | 10:40 |
| Pavlov | they need to polish the OS | 10:40 |
| Khertan | Pavlov: and an great os | 10:40 |
| ShadowJK | Apparently Windows Mobile still outsells WP7 | 10:40 |
| jonwil | WebOS, iOS and Blackberry are closed and not an option for Nokia | 10:40 |
| Pavlov | toadpole: they have a history of making their 2nd or 3rd releases pretty solid | 10:40 |
| dotblank | well as long as they still developm meego | 10:40 |
| Coke | Pavlov: they have to replace their UI, it's not user friendly in the slightest, ditch silverlight, make it less restrictive and rewrite the core from scratch | 10:40 |
| jonwil | so that left WP7 or Android | 10:40 |
| Pavlov | the core is fine | 10:40 |
| kerio | HOW DO YOU LIKE DEM WINDOWS | 10:40 |
| Pavlov | continue to merge with windows 8 | 10:40 |
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| Khertan | Pavlov: until you use it | 10:40 |
| kerio | :( | 10:41 |
| Coke | Pavlov: I disagree with you again. | 10:41 |
| kerio | so... was the decision to shoot itself in the foot something related to shareholders or what? | 10:41 |
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| Coke | However. If Nokia has a rather liberal end user license maybe we'll see a Qt port for windows too | 10:41 |
| Pavlov | part of their UX is quite interesting, part of it needs more work | 10:41 |
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| jonwil | I think the #1 thing Microsoft could do to improve Windows Phone 7 and its prospects for long term survival is to dump the developer license fees | 10:41 |
| MohammadAG | uh what's the announcement? | 10:41 |
| dotblank | Yea I don't see how WP7 would make sense without a Qt port | 10:41 |
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| Coke | Pavlov: it still felt crippled compared to android, ios and maemo | 10:42 |
| Pavlov | why does Qt factor in? | 10:42 |
| Khertan | MohammadAG: a suicide one | 10:42 |
| jonwil | Maybe retain fees for submitting to the WP7 marketplace | 10:42 |
| Pavlov | you've got to think total reset | 10:42 |
| jonwil | but ditch the requirement to pay fees just to write your own software for the thing | 10:42 |
| Coke | Pavlov: because that's the toolkit I use when I want to reach many target platforms | 10:42 |
| Coke | Pavlov: if I write using MS SDK I can only run it on MS | 10:42 |
| Coke | if I use Apple's SDK I can only run on ios | 10:42 |
| Coke | if I use android SDK I can only run on Android | 10:42 |
| Coke | etc | 10:42 |
| Pavlov | right -- and Qt doesn't help you on any of those | 10:42 |
| Khertan | Coke: and only for one version of windows | 10:42 |
| dotblank | I saw someone was working on a qt android port in the works | 10:43 |
| Pavlov | i understand why you as a developer want Qt | 10:43 |
| Coke | Our systems are ported to windows xp, windows vista, windows 7, linux 32, linux 64, Maemo and OSX. | 10:43 |
| ThreeM | omg | 10:43 |
| dotblank | I also work on an iphone one as well | 10:43 |
| Pavlov | but that isn't the same as it making sense for Nokia or Microsoft | 10:43 |
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| ThreeM | Nokia will use Windows 7 Phone series | 10:43 |
| ThreeM | wtf?! | 10:43 |
| Khertan | Pavlov: qt can be used to write end user apps on symbian, meego, (soon Android), and is present in WebOS | 10:43 |
| Coke | oh it also runs on winmo 6.5, but nobody is using it any more. | 10:43 |
| Coke | still maintaing a port tho | 10:43 |
| kerio | i don't get how would it work - those 4 things have *completely* different UX paradigms | 10:43 |
| kerio | you'll still going to rewrite the whole of your UI | 10:43 |
| Pavlov | Khertan: the first 2 are dead, and no one is using webos right now | 10:43 |
| Coke | Khertan: you think Qt will run and integrate properly on android? | 10:44 |
| ShadowJK | I think you're doing it wrong if you need to port between linux32 and linux64 ;p | 10:44 |
| dotblank | I guess there is still intel for meego | 10:44 |
| Khertan | Coke: there was some announce about it | 10:44 |
| Coke | dotblank: yes! I'm hoping morestown will be awesome | 10:44 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: or you're doing it very very right | 10:44 |
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| Coke | Khertan: all I've seen is the blogs of the hobby development of lighthouse | 10:44 |
| Coke | I wondered why Nokia didnt jump on lighthouse like a cat on tuna, but now it's painfully clear. | 10:44 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, no I think you're doing it very wrong :P | 10:44 |
| Khertan | dotblank: intel never do a great support of their os ...look at moblin | 10:44 |
| dotblank | yea | 10:45 |
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| toadpole | maybe its time for intel to get more into smartphones | 10:45 |
| Coke | I've managed to crash MeeGo horribly, it's not production ready | 10:45 |
| Mece_ | http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 | 10:45 |
| Khertan | dotblank: look in the meego bug tracker in netbook ... seems they will stop evolution on netbook ux | 10:45 |
| Coke | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqpVP414WJo | 10:45 |
| dotblank | honestly I could care less about netbook UX | 10:46 |
| Coke | that's the only one Ive seen, the development platform | 10:46 |
| dotblank | there are like 10 distros that can fill that role | 10:46 |
| RST38h | DocScrutinizer: Can I set the topic ? =) | 10:46 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: ok, port psyco to x64 | 10:46 |
| kerio | go ahead | 10:46 |
| Coke | dotblank: oh, but the meego UI is actually ver nice | 10:46 |
| toadpole | Qt will continue to be the development framework for Symbian and Nokia will use Symbian for further devices; continuing to develop strategic applications in Qt for Symbian platform and encouraging application developers to do the same. With 200 million users worldwide and Nokia planning to sell around 150 million more Symbian devices, Symbian still offers unparalleled geographical scale for developers. | 10:46 |
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| Coke | if MeeGo didnt crash like a drunk turkey I'd use it on our work laptops | 10:46 |
| dotblank | "Microsoft would make available the existing free Windows Phone Developer Tools; Visual Studio 2010, Expression, Silverlight and the XNA Framework to developers. Together, we will provide guidance for developers wishing to port their applications to Windows Phone. " | 10:47 |
| dotblank | that makes me sick | 10:47 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, it's doing almost only things that according to the C standard produces undefined behaviour :) | 10:47 |
| toadpole | so no small time developers, unless they plan on making visual studio freeware | 10:47 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: well it's the only way | 10:47 |
| MohammadAG | Oh | 10:47 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: So, Android for us now? | 10:47 |
| Coke | so guys... if nokia releases a meego phone, should one buy it? | 10:47 |
| toadpole | i would | 10:48 |
| Coke | it's a canundrum. on one hand, i want a new linux phone | 10:48 |
| MohammadAG | When can I kill Elop? | 10:48 |
| RST38h | Coke: Whom are you asking? | 10:48 |
| Coke | on the other hand that money will help sponsor MS | 10:48 |
| MohammadAG | slowly, in front of a BSOD | 10:48 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, need an unfucked uncrippled and not locked down device too | 10:48 |
| kerio | Coke: hug CSSU and don't let it go for the n900, buy the n9 and hope for a matching thing i suppose | 10:48 |
| toadpole | there's no need to get personal about it, Coke | 10:48 |
| Coke | basically I will be paying to ditch my system | 10:48 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: The correct question is HOW not WHEN | 10:48 |
| RobbieThe1st | No way in heck Nokia'll pay MS anything | 10:48 |
| Ken-Young | Coke, I'd buy it, but I'll bet no such phone is ever released by Nokia. | 10:48 |
| RobbieThe1st | Probably the other way around | 10:48 |
| dotblank | wouldn't it still be possible to put meego on a nokia wp7 anyway | 10:48 |
| zutesmog | Hmm time to start getting ophono stack working on ununtu I think. | 10:48 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Many Androids fit | 10:48 |
| Mece_ | i need to buy a bunch of N900's | 10:48 |
| Coke | RobbieThe1st: not pay like that | 10:48 |
| zutesmog | s/ununtu/ubuntu/ | 10:48 |
| infobot | zutesmog meant: Hmm time to start getting ophono stack working on ubuntu I think. | 10:48 |
| toadpole | ( Ken-Young ): they've said they would release one by the end of the year | 10:48 |
| Coke | but, Nokia would use the N9 revenues to develop MS phones | 10:48 |
| ShadowJK | dotblank, not if their wp7 phones are like their symbian phones, locked down | 10:49 |
| kerio | haha, ununtu | 10:49 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Although the dev environment is majorly bonsaied, yes | 10:49 |
| Coke | and with them partnering up with my old nemesis, it's a no go | 10:49 |
| Pavlov | Mece: might have a few hundread for sale soon! | 10:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | possibly | 10:49 |
| toadpole | ( Coke ): it's not like you're not getting anything for your money | 10:49 |
| Mece_ | Pavlov. cheap? | 10:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | Meh; I'd buy it to show support for the MeeGo brand | 10:49 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, so there's gainroot or similar there too? | 10:49 |
| Pavlov | dunno | 10:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | Provided it's good | 10:49 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: yea | 10:49 |
| Pavlov | depends what we decide to do | 10:49 |
| Coke | toadpole: true. that's also true for iphone buyers, but the slave workers who manufacter them might still be a concern. | 10:49 |
| dotblank | Seriosuly i'm not happy with android being the linux phone | 10:49 |
| Coke | I mean, for your own feelings. | 10:49 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Not with every phone but with most | 10:49 |
| Mece_ | today, the awesomeness of N900 turned legendary | 10:49 |
| Ken-Young | toadpole, Didn't they say they're release a Meego-related device? That might not be a phone. Anyway, who'd trust anything they say now? | 10:49 |
| kerio | Nokia expects 2011 and 2012 to be transition years, as the company invests to build the planned winning ecosystem with Microsoft. OH COME ON | 10:49 |
| kerio | who decided this? | 10:50 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: What puts me off is the lack of SSHD and a decent video player | 10:50 |
| Mece_ | wow. just like 2010-2011 | 10:50 |
| MohammadAG | so let me get this straight | 10:50 |
| MohammadAG | they killed Maemo 5 | 10:50 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: But I guess you can't have everything and some things need time... | 10:50 |
| dotblank | really I feel like MS is also a dying brand as well | 10:50 |
| jonwil | Windows Phone 7 is MORE locked down than iOS | 10:50 |
| zutesmog | I think Nokia will divest themselves of Qt or release it entirely open source. | 10:50 |
| toadpole | ( RST38h ): i think there's a VLC for android | 10:50 |
| MohammadAG | They encouraged Qt development, killed M5 development | 10:50 |
| Mece_ | MohammadAG, hehe... well cssu ftfw! | 10:50 |
| RST38h | toadpole: No. | 10:50 |
| MohammadAG | then they encouraged QML development | 10:50 |
| Coke | zutesmog: it's LGPL already, how can it get more open source? | 10:50 |
| dotblank | what if they kill Qt | 10:50 |
| Coke | How? | 10:51 |
| Pavlov | zutesmog: that'd be my bet | 10:51 |
| Shadikka | dotblank: Not with Windows and Office, no. | 10:51 |
| Coke | it's on gitorious. the sources are there. | 10:51 |
| MohammadAG | then switched to a platform that doesn't use QML | 10:51 |
| toadpole | they're saying they won't kill Qt | 10:51 |
| Mece_ | did you read this? http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 | 10:51 |
| zutesmog | canonical could by the trolltech assets | 10:51 |
| dotblank | yea but i'm talking later | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: That was chaotic frenzy of rats on a sinking ship | 10:51 |
| MohammadAG | How much is a Nexus S again? | 10:51 |
| Shapeshifter | lolmicrosoft | 10:51 |
| Pavlov | there is no reason to keep Qt around | 10:51 |
| zutesmog | they seem keen on qt at the moment | 10:51 |
| Pavlov | MohammadAG: hold out for the Atrix or other Tegra2 based phone | 10:51 |
| Shapeshifter | But I want a meego phone ;_; | 10:51 |
| dotblank | Qt is big.. I can see intel and ubuntu getting buddy buddy | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: I would also suggest the Atrix *or* the supposedly incoming Dell Opus One | 10:52 |
| MohammadAG | I'd rather hack a phone and get MeeGo on it than use a WP7 device | 10:52 |
| Coke | Qt is the worst thing that could happen for MS, Apple and Google. | 10:52 |
| zutesmog | yep very, Qt/Unity on a smartphone maybe | 10:52 |
| Coke | They don't want portability, they want lockability | 10:52 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Dell will be more hackable than Motorola | 10:52 |
| jonwil | I dont care who makes it, I want a nice OPEN phone | 10:52 |
| kerio | jonwil: openmoko freerunner | 10:52 |
| zutesmog | Maybe MS want a decent ui toolkit in Qt ;-) | 10:52 |
| kerio | :P | 10:52 |
| Coke | perhaps some vendor will sell blank phones in the future? | 10:52 |
| Coke | with complete hw specs | 10:52 |
| Coke | (or decent enough to make linux run on it) | 10:52 |
| Shapeshifter | Coke: oh you | 10:53 |
| jonwil | The N900 is the closest you can get to an open phone | 10:53 |
| Coke | like u can buy blank desktops today | 10:53 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, the Nexus S has a basic MeeGo port | 10:53 |
| Shapeshifter | Coke: jester | 10:53 |
| jonwil | if you want something with somewhat recent hardware | 10:53 |
| dotblank | someone should develop thier own phone on the u8500 platform | 10:53 |
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| Coke | Shapeshifter: optimist :) | 10:53 |
| dotblank | some small electronics company | 10:53 |
| jonwil | I think part of the problem for Nokia is that the cell carriers HATE open | 10:53 |
| Coke | the biggest issue all my friends have with n900 is the lack of a decent spotify port | 10:54 |
| jonwil | which is why so few cell carriers sold the N900 | 10:54 |
| Pavlov | biggest issue my friends had with the n900 is the screen | 10:54 |
| Pavlov | and the size | 10:54 |
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| Pavlov | and battery life | 10:54 |
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| Pavlov | mostly the screen | 10:54 |
| kerio | well, having a n900 justifies you from using *any* cellphone data plan with your computer | 10:54 |
| Shapeshifter | Coke: spotify is evil | 10:54 |
| dotblank | Actually I found battery life to be great now | 10:54 |
| Khertan | Pavlov: battery is an issue ... indeed | 10:54 |
| Shapeshifter | Coke: use grooveshark instead | 10:54 |
| Arkenoi | Pavlov, what's wrong with the screen, despite size? | 10:55 |
| dotblank | Also tmo seems to be glitched with my data plan on my n900 so... free 3g for me | 10:55 |
| Pavlov | resistive | 10:55 |
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| Pavlov | no one knows how to use them | 10:55 |
| Pavlov | i've literally watched people try and move things with their finger for at least a minute | 10:55 |
| Pavlov | without success | 10:55 |
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| Shapeshifter | the n900 has an awesome screen. I'm still astonished every time I see one of those desire HD screens and all that lot, their pixels are so chunky and bad | 10:55 |
| MohammadAG | Shapeshifter, the groove client is dead | 10:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | Shadikka: Amen | 10:56 |
| dotblank | MohammadAG, ah yea I really need to get on that | 10:56 |
| Pavlov | Shapeshifter: yeah, the actual display part of the screen is pretty nice | 10:56 |
| Pavlov | just the touch part | 10:56 |
| Shapeshifter | Pavlov: I also like that it's resistive. Ever checked out mypaint? plus the accuracy you get for controlling possible apps which have not been written for a mobile device | 10:57 |
| Khertan | Pavlov: personnaly i like the touch part ... not like this unaccurate iPhone touch part ! | 10:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 10:57 |
| dotblank | well lets not get into a screen type debate | 10:57 |
| Shadikka | Heh, now that's some tab confusion again. | 10:57 |
| dotblank | both are good for certain things | 10:57 |
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| Shadikka | Five people with nicks starting with "sha" here :) | 10:58 |
| Coke | Anybody else snowed in? | 10:58 |
| dotblank | nope | 10:58 |
| merlin1991 | nope | 10:58 |
| kerio | nope | 10:58 |
| Pavlov | nope the snow got canceled too | 10:58 |
| Coke | couldn't get to work today | 10:58 |
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| Shadikka | Nope, no snow here, just lots of wind | 10:58 |
| Shadikka | well, no snowfall :P | 10:59 |
| Arkenoi | why not just make n900i with 512Mb RAM? it resolves almost all problems n900 has. | 11:00 |
| Khertan | Arkenoi: indeed :) | 11:00 |
| Coke | Arkenoi: why not N9 with a for row keyboard and new hw? :) | 11:00 |
| Coke | it'd be the best phone even if it runs an outdated maemo | 11:00 |
| Arkenoi | pavlov: i do not give a f**k. capacitive screens are "sexy" but that's all. resistive ones are better. | 11:01 |
| Khertan | Arkenoi: noone study for a modification hack to add ram to the n900 ? | 11:01 |
| Khertan | The screen isn't the point to fight ... taking out wp7 is ! | 11:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yes | 11:02 |
| Khertan | Nokia n9-01 : http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4692/nokiaphone.jpg | 11:02 |
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| * Arkenoi won't by a device without a keyboard. | 11:04 | |
| Arkenoi | and they say it is delayed again anyways, so meego is dead i think. | 11:05 |
| jaska | ditto | 11:05 |
| dotblank | lol everyone is freaking out in all the Qt channels as well | 11:05 |
| jaska | guess i need to mirror the nokia n900 repos locally incase they drop them | 11:05 |
| Ken-Young | jaska, Good point. | 11:05 |
| Coke | Hehe, my buddy just ordered the latest HTC with android, he's ditching is N900 immediately. | 11:05 |
| Arkenoi | a new one is scheduled to 2012, and the world will end anyways. | 11:05 |
| Coke | Out of spite. | 11:06 |
| dotblank | I'll never ditch my n900 | 11:06 |
| dotblank | I still love it | 11:06 |
| toadpole | me too | 11:06 |
| Coke | dotblank: he wants nokia to go bankrupt, doesnt want to promote them in any way shape or form it seems | 11:06 |
| toadpole | though i wouldn't mind getting an additional qwerty android | 11:06 |
| Coke | he's a device geek | 11:06 |
| * SpeedEvil wakes up. | 11:06 | |
| dotblank | where I am noone has even seen my phone before | 11:06 |
| * Arkenoi 'd better buy another n900 as spare device just in case this one dies. There is no migration option anyways. | 11:07 | |
| dotblank | I could lie and say it runs a special version of android | 11:07 |
| SpeedEvil | So - windows 7 running under qemu is the new way forward? | 11:07 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders actually looking at announcement. | 11:07 | |
| SpeedEvil | Was anything substantive revealed? | 11:07 |
| merlin1991 | yes | 11:07 |
| dotblank | oh man | 11:07 |
| merlin1991 | :D | 11:08 |
| Shapeshifter | Govs in europe and other places are switching to linux quite happily. maybe some day a gov will put a policy in place that communication devices used for the gov need to be open as well, e.g. for security reasons and then there would be an actual economic demand for such devices | 11:08 |
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| dotblank | SpeedEvil, nokia is switching to WP7 | 11:08 |
| merlin1991 | SpeedEvil, nokia wp7 and meego dead | 11:08 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: nothing i've seen yet | 11:08 |
| dotblank | well meego isn't dead there is still intel | 11:08 |
| merlin1991 | not exactly that words but kinda | 11:08 |
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| Khertan | dotblank: so it s dead :) | 11:09 |
| merlin1991 | I'm waiting for a press release from intel | 11:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | And symbian remains at the low end? | 11:09 |
| dotblank | yea | 11:09 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: i think symbian is just on a death march | 11:09 |
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| Pavlov | until it stops making money | 11:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | maybe I should buy some n900 replacement parts just in case | 11:09 |
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| dotblank | I mean I would think there are enough people that would want a completely open phone | 11:10 |
| jaska | guess i need to get some cheapo backup (nonsymbian) dumbphone | 11:10 |
| dotblank | I'm astonished its taken this long | 11:10 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Because they are bureaucratic marketroids? | 11:12 |
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| Scelt | oh man Nokia, what did you do now? | 11:12 |
| rmrfchik | so, big crying? | 11:13 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Who additionally live in their own imaginary world where WP7 is a stunning success, and not 1.5% of North American market? (below WM6.5 with 3%) | 11:13 |
| rmrfchik | two losers had united. | 11:13 |
| mavhc | how near is meego to being able to compete? | 11:13 |
| Scelt | rmrfchik: as a Finn, a very big one | 11:13 |
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| rmrfchik | i was afraid of this. when I whined about dropped maemo, i said "they will drop meego as well". damn, I didn't expect they will adopt windows | 11:14 |
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| Arkenoi | btw there was dalvik for meego already | 11:15 |
| ShadowJK | who gives a shit about dalvik :( | 11:15 |
| mavhc | what does that imply? | 11:15 |
| dotblank | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg&feature=player_embedded | 11:15 |
| Ken-Young | rmrfchik, I figured they'd at least make one meego device before dropping it. TTheir ADHD is getting worse. | 11:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | It's cause the new CEO's from MS | 11:15 |
| ShadowJK | if anything I'd want to run meego on some android hardware :P | 11:15 |
| dotblank | this is so rage inducing | 11:15 |
| Arkenoi | ShadowJK, it could make android fanboys happy (and there is plenty of them) | 11:16 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: javispedro says WebOS is worth a look | 11:16 |
| Trewas | Ken-Young: they still promise to make one meego phone | 11:16 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Linux underneath, with native devkit based on SDL | 11:16 |
| rmrfchik | Ken-Young: doesn't help meego. they will have to support 3 SDK: qt/meego (I hope, this will one sdk), Symbian and wp7 | 11:16 |
| dotblank | "Mobile consumers want, like bing" | 11:16 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, yeah sounds nice | 11:16 |
| Ken-Young | Trewas, I don't think so, they promise to make "a meego-related device". THat might not be a phone. | 11:16 |
| rmrfchik | Ken-Young: developers will just abandon meego | 11:16 |
| frikinz | promise LOL | 11:17 |
| Ken-Young | rmrfchik, Yup | 11:17 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, HP seems to suck :-( | 11:17 |
| RobbieThe1st | "people like bing"? Really now... | 11:17 |
| Trewas | Ken-Young: well, a tablet is also possible come to think of it | 11:17 |
| Ken-Young | Yup | 11:17 |
| Ken-Young | Nothing is also possible. | 11:17 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Why? They have got rid of Fiorina. They fired Hurd | 11:17 |
| rmrfchik | I think HP's webOS will have big success. | 11:17 |
| Khertan | The only hope we can have is that they let TrollTech separate from them | 11:17 |
| RobbieThe1st | I haven't seen anyone who cares and doesn't use google. Bing is -only- used by people who don't care. | 11:17 |
| mavhc | bing has 100% of the marketshare of people who don't know how to change their search engine | 11:17 |
| RobbieThe1st | Exactly | 11:18 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: With all the main assholes gone, HP has good chances | 11:18 |
| dotblank | Wow.. i don't think elop has nokia's best interests in mine | 11:18 |
| Khertan | else nokia will kill Qt with them | 11:18 |
| dotblank | I think hes going for MS | 11:18 |
| rmrfchik | RST38h: indeed | 11:18 |
| dotblank | in mind* | 11:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | I suspect I'll be keeping my n900 for a couple of years, and buying a replacement when it fails | 11:18 |
| rmrfchik | webos ftw, win7 is so backward. | 11:18 |
| mavhc | why not android? | 11:18 |
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| Ken-Young | RobbieThe1st, I just orderd another N900... | 11:18 |
| Khertan | mavhc: java ... burk | 11:19 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, you can write C as well | 11:19 |
| rmrfchik | Khertan: you can use scheme on android ;) | 11:19 |
| RobbieThe1st | For me, the N900 syncs perfectly with my computer. That is, I drag and drop files onto it. And it works. | 11:19 |
| ShadowJK | it's not even java | 11:19 |
| RobbieThe1st | Who cares about iTunes or Zune | 11:19 |
| Khertan | http://punchcard.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/pypalm-for-palm-webos-development/ | 11:19 |
| Khertan | crashanddie: nope ... prefer python ... and python isn't useable to run end user apps on android | 11:20 |
| mavhc | can't you do like jython? | 11:20 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: Drag and drop? cron + rsync | 11:21 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, as someone looking for a job, you shouldn't disqualify yourself by saying "I'm a python developer" | 11:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah. | 11:21 |
| Khertan | crashanddie: ? | 11:21 |
| SpeedEvil | 'I'm a developer that knows python' | 11:21 |
| crashanddie | only bad developers limit their scope to a single language: the language has relatively little importance. | 11:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Which implies you're willing to learn. | 11:21 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_smartphone_agreement/ <-- bye bye Nokia... been nice knowing you | 11:22 |
| Khertan | crashanddie: SpeedEvil: indeed ... | 11:22 |
| mavhc | what's this scripting layer for android thing? | 11:22 |
| chem|st | Khertan: where are you from? | 11:22 |
| alterego | I still believe it MeeGo, but we need newer arm hardware | 11:22 |
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| alterego | mavhc: jscript? :) | 11:22 |
| crashanddie | chem|st, he's in Paris | 11:23 |
| chem|st | ty | 11:23 |
| Khertan | chem|st: france | 11:23 |
| chem|st | a amazon headhunter was tracking me down somehow (lab123.com) | 11:23 |
| maybeArgh | amazon is on the prowl for kindle devs atm apparently | 11:23 |
| chem|st | california but visas not before june | 11:24 |
| mavhc | Can I use SL4A to write a real Android application or embed SL4A scripts in my application? -- Yes | 11:24 |
| crashanddie | you don't want to be a kindle dev | 11:24 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Why not? | 11:24 |
| crashanddie | actually: You do not want to be a dev for Amazon, unless you're a manager in the EC2 department | 11:24 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: it is linux 2.6.26 afair | 11:24 |
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| crashanddie | Amazon is 100% customer focused. If you announce delays, you get *massacred* | 11:25 |
| SpeedEvil | ' With the demotion of MeeGo from "platform" to "project", and Torres' surprise departure, we can draw our own conclusion.' - Torres=? | 11:25 |
| chem|st | crashanddie: it is lab123 looking for coders not amazon | 11:25 |
| crashanddie | sure | 11:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | SpeedEvil: I'm not the sort of person who "syncs" or anything. I drag and drop files where I want them to go(or use cp). | 11:25 |
| crashanddie | RobbieThe1st, 2nd or 3rd time you're saying the same thing? STFU? | 11:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | crashanddie: see his response? | 11:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | Just saying.. | 11:26 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil, http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/corporate-governance/group-executive-board/alberto-torres | 11:26 |
| crashanddie | Executive Vice President, MeeGo Computers, Mobile Solutions | 11:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 11:26 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: by now I would say get a new device and put maemo5-with-CSSU on it and you got your massmarket... | 11:26 |
| SpeedEvil | :. | 11:26 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: If the new devices aren't locked down. | 11:26 |
| SpeedEvil | And... | 11:26 |
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| ruskie | "Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year." <-- I ... | 11:27 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs at the news. | 11:27 | |
| ruskie | ... wonder what this will actually be... | 11:27 |
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| pillum | hey, how do i delete files with filebox | 11:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: A CD. | 11:27 |
| ruskie | :) | 11:27 |
| ruskie | I guess I need to get myself a backup N900 | 11:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Or a t-shirt. | 11:27 |
| chem|st | ruskie: that is what I thought lately | 11:27 |
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| ruskie | chem|st, I've had plans on getting a second one for a while | 11:28 |
| SpeedEvil | 'I wanted a meego device, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt' | 11:28 |
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| orlok | http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/nokia-microsoft-in-smart-phone-alliance/story-e6frfkur-1226004642957 | 11:28 |
| orlok | :-( | 11:28 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: exactly | 11:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | orlok: Late on that one | 11:28 |
| Scelt | I grief. Cu and stay strong | 11:28 |
| chem|st | orlok: you are late | 11:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Meego related product - promise kept. | 11:28 |
| ruskie | and maybe one of the S40 devices as a backup phone after everything else breaks down... | 11:28 |
| orlok | my N900 is the only phone i've been able to use without it being a pain | 11:28 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, good point... | 11:28 |
| pillum | Is it even possible to delete files with Filebox? :S | 11:28 |
| orlok | Any other non-droid linux based phones coming out? | 11:29 |
| pillum | OpenMoko :D | 11:29 |
| chem|st | I will never buy a android/iphone/wp7 phone so I will wait till those freaks do something useful | 11:29 |
| SpeedEvil | orlok: Openmoko related one keeps making noise. | 11:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | In a small way. | 11:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Truly hideous problem OM has is that their volumes will be tiny. | 11:30 |
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| orlok | reckon nokia will abandon the linux tablet? | 11:30 |
| SpeedEvil | So their prices/performance are unattractive, or their initial profit margin is tiny. | 11:30 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, the other problem they have imho is they lack decent design... | 11:30 |
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| Pillum | can you hear me? | 11:30 |
| kerio | just copy maemo | 11:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Pillum: no. | 11:30 |
| Pillum | oh, thats bad :( | 11:30 |
| kerio | Pillum: nope | 11:30 |
| kerio | yeah, that's pretty bad | 11:31 |
| ruskie | orlok, well nokia speek seems to say it'll be an R&D project(I thought this is what it was so far)... | 11:31 |
| orlok | hm | 11:31 |
| Pillum | so, does any of you guys use filebox for n900? | 11:31 |
| jonwil | If OM could get some decent hardware (say 3G/3.5G cell data for a start along with 3D graphics) they might stand a chance | 11:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: It was supposed to be the new way forward for all highend devices at one point. | 11:31 |
| Pillum | its a pita to use terminal to delete multiple files | 11:32 |
| Pillum | does any of you guys use filebox for n900? | 11:32 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: 3D graphics is easy - all the SoCs come with it built in. 3G/3.5G is annoyingly hard. | 11:32 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: Vendors are not interested in selling tiny volumes. | 11:32 |
| jonwil | Maybe the best answer for 3G is to find a vendor willing to sell something similar to the guts of one of those USB 3G broadband sticks | 11:33 |
| jonwil | except with voice support | 11:33 |
| mavhc | just buy a nexus s and put meego on it | 11:33 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: Modules are possible, but add bulk and cost. | 11:33 |
| jonwil | Nexus S has no physical QWERTY | 11:34 |
| mavhc | g2 then | 11:34 |
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| MohammadAG | what's the G2? | 11:34 |
| jonwil | No-one makes an Android handset with physical qwerty that isn't locked down | 11:34 |
| jonwil | a GSM one that is | 11:34 |
| * orlok actually has a few GSM modules lying about | 11:34 | |
| Pillum | meep meep beep | 11:34 |
| jonwil | Milestone from Moto has bootloader locks and you cant replace the kernel | 11:34 |
| orlok | work makes an arm+linux based GSM data modem | 11:34 |
| mavhc | g2 was rooted months ago | 11:35 |
| jonwil | HTC G2/Desire Z is locked and you have to use funky exploits to unlock it to the point where you can replace the kernel | 11:35 |
| orlok | so i bagged a few units used for debugging and prototyping before they were turfed | 11:35 |
| kerio | i want a smartphone with a "closed" modem | 11:35 |
| orlok | serial, ethernet, a button and some LED's. and a SIM socket | 11:35 |
| Pillum | MohammadAG: hows the progress with your open media player? | 11:35 |
| orlok | kerio: what, that relace the A in AT with an X or something? :) | 11:36 |
| kerio | orlok: well, the FCC wants modem code to be signed and unhackable | 11:36 |
| orlok | yay yet another obsucated version of hayes | 11:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | orlok: It's not that. | 11:36 |
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| kerio | but hey, a little bug in the sign checking... | 11:36 |
| orlok | ahh | 11:36 |
| orlok | yeah, i get it | 11:37 |
| SpeedEvil | orlok: You can do really nasty shit to the network with an uncontrolled radio. | 11:37 |
| orlok | yup yup | 11:37 |
| orlok | like the guys that decided to tap into their motorola brick those many years ago | 11:37 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: fuck yeah | 11:37 |
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| kerio | what happens if you have a phone where you can do that? | 11:38 |
| kerio | i mean, to you | 11:38 |
| orlok | kerio: seen the recent picocell research? | 11:38 |
| jonwil | btw what was said about vendors not wanting to sell in small quantities, why would Samsung or Marvell or TI be willing to sell an ARM SOC to OpenMoko for a small-production-run device any more than vendors for cell modems would be? | 11:38 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: It's the way the market is. | 11:38 |
| orlok | kerio: software controlled radio based picocell, IIRC.. they could do some nasty stuff | 11:38 |
| Pillum | OpenMoko has even worse support than maemo | 11:39 |
| Pillum | why would anyone use uit | 11:39 |
| mavhc | with 4 $15 phones you can crack GSM | 11:39 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: 3G vendors typically need to do a moderate amount of suppot work to get a design working with a customer. | 11:39 |
| * range stabs nokia in the eye. | 11:39 | |
| orlok | jonwil: well, the support required to get the chip properly integrated into a new bit of hardware for one | 11:39 |
| range | So they go from one of the most open eco systems in that area to the most closed one they could find? | 11:39 |
| SpeedEvil | jonwil: If they need to do this support work for 5000 chips, they're not interested. | 11:39 |
| range | They poured shitloads of work into Qt and into their UX and they go to an OS whichs only great feature is the snazzy UI? | 11:40 |
| range | Can someone pinch me please? | 11:40 |
| * Pillum pinches range | 11:40 | |
| orlok | kerio: there was a demonstration in the past few months, at a hacker con i think.. iirc they got fcc permission to demonstrate | 11:41 |
| SpeedEvil | orlok: they did not need permission. | 11:42 |
| Pillum | orlok: do you mean ccc conference at berlin? | 11:42 |
| SpeedEvil | orlok: As they were operating in a permitted for amateur radio band - which happened to overlap a european band | 11:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | eu cellphone band | 11:43 |
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| Pillum | they needed a permission of the german official | 11:43 |
| orlok | ahh | 11:43 |
| orlok | coulda sworn it was at one of the yank conventions | 11:44 |
| mavhc | why do smartphones cost more than laptops? | 11:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - I was referring to defcon 18 | 11:44 |
| orlok | yeah defcon sounds like what i was thinking about | 11:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | mavhc: Because laptop parts are widely sourced, and putting together a low-end laptop isn't that challenging. | 11:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Using 10* less power or more and still getting acceptable performance costs. | 11:45 |
| Pillum | how do i get mslug to run on mame ? | 11:45 |
| Pillum | itt always says missing rom or chd immage | 11:45 |
| range | Pillum: So I was awake. Damn. | 11:46 |
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| jhb1 | haha: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ | 11:47 |
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| ruskie | hmm Huawei E1550 actually supports voice calls apparently... so something like a smart/touch book could work with this... I guess | 11:47 |
| ruskie | Nokia Windows Phones (get used to that phrase) <-- I can't get used to this... makes me want to throw up each time I read it :( | 11:48 |
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| range | Oh, so this time they pissed of all community members? Qt, Symbian and Maemo/Meego? | 11:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | if they don't yield something like N9 my next device may either be another n900 or I'm jumping across to android | 11:49 |
| ruskie | I'm not jumping to android... | 11:49 |
| Pillum | is it sure that nokia uses windows mobile? | 11:49 |
| Shapeshifter | range: everyone. probably even windows fanboys xD | 11:49 |
| psycho_oreos | there's a big news headline, look under google news | 11:49 |
| ruskie | Pillum, yes | 11:49 |
| Pillum | ohhh ;( | 11:50 |
| Pillum | i cant believe | 11:50 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't fancy windows phone with that stupid windows icon as a button, its more `eat your face' than apple's iphone which sticks on the back of the device and thus isn't a button | 11:50 |
| mavhc | calm down dear, it's just an os | 11:51 |
| psycho_oreos | android maybe ugly with only linux kernel being the one closest to somewhat a little like linux but the rest is garbage.. too bad. n9 would have been my device if they didn't axe it | 11:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | you've never seen WP7 phones have you? | 11:51 |
| ruskie | psycho_oreos, have they? | 11:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | ruskie, its still rumours that they've axed it, I'd be really disappointed if n9 never comes out or something equivalent to n9 in terms of specs. | 11:52 |
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| mavhc | making 1 phone with each OS isn't a strategy either | 11:53 |
| mavhc | so why don't you like android? | 11:53 |
| ruskie | crappy UX? | 11:54 |
| Pillum | closedness | 11:54 |
| ruskie | java? | 11:54 |
| Pillum | java | 11:54 |
| Pillum | lol | 11:54 |
| psycho_oreos | that was the problem with nokia, maemo/meego were never meant to take on the world stage because nokia only wanted to focus mainly on symbian. This is why maemo lacked features and hence when it came to n900 as the last stand it failed | 11:54 |
| ruskie | psycho_oreos, they should have focused on symbian | 11:55 |
| range | It feels a bit like when oracle bought sun. | 11:55 |
| ruskie | and kept maemo/meego as R&D until they got something viable | 11:55 |
| range | *wrong* | 11:55 |
| mavhc | java, c, python, lua, perl, rhino | 11:55 |
| alterego | N900 wasn't supposed to be a last stand. | 11:55 |
| psycho_oreos | ruskie, they did until they axed like 50% of employees. Thus I'm not happy with symbian in many aspects either | 11:55 |
| Ken-Young | It feels like when Compaq bought DEC. | 11:55 |
| mavhc | nokia never took software seriously | 11:56 |
| jonwil | my god even the simplest-seeming of plugins can be so hard | 11:56 |
| jonwil | so complex | 11:56 |
| psycho_oreos | though N900 does seem like the last stand.. running pretty much what is heralded as the last maemo operating system | 11:56 |
| jonwil | like the cellular network name status widget | 11:56 |
| ruskie | mavhc, non-news really | 11:56 |
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| mavhc | indeed, that's why I bought a droid | 11:56 |
| mavhc | when my n810 died | 11:57 |
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| ruskie | for a tablet I'll be happy with a touchbook | 11:57 |
| mavhc | well, it still works, just have to plug in a mouse | 11:57 |
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| ruskie | for a phone device... the n900 was nice since it combined what I needed from a mobile device with a basic phone | 11:57 |
| Ken-Young | Is there any video feed of the press conference available? | 11:57 |
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| Pillum | i wont believe any of the news until the conference at barcelona | 11:58 |
| Noma | http://www-waa-akam.thomson-webcast.net/uk/dispatching/?event_id=2dd7139793f7dc9f43109186244f14dc&portal_id=369401748e8249f142a700d8098a3473 | 11:58 |
| ruskie | Pillum, this is from the horses mouth so to speak... | 11:58 |
| mavhc | ruskie: what about the UX? | 11:58 |
| ruskie | mavhc, of the N900 ? | 11:58 |
| ruskie | perfect for me | 11:58 |
| ruskie | mobile computer... | 11:58 |
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| ruskie | the meego handset UX is crap... the droid UX is crap... the icrud UX is crud... atleast for my needs | 11:59 |
| ruskie | I need something that behaves like a normal desktop computer... | 11:59 |
| jonwil | WP7 ux is crap | 11:59 |
| ruskie | not something that behaves like a phone | 11:59 |
| jonwil | Best ux I have seen on any phone to date is n900 | 11:59 |
| mavhc | of android | 11:59 |
| ruskie | if I want something that behaves like a phone I'll buy well a phone... with physical keypad... | 11:59 |
| ruskie | mavhc, as said... it's phone centric... | 12:00 |
| mavhc | phone's just an app | 12:00 |
| ruskie | no | 12:00 |
| ruskie | the entire UI is built around that app | 12:00 |
| mavhc | examples? | 12:00 |
| _berto_ | the webcast should be starting now, nokia.com/press | 12:01 |
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| Pavlov | yeah | 12:01 |
| ruskie | the device in essence is meant to be used as a phone... everything that runs on top is just nice shiny candy... | 12:01 |
| Pavlov | it is | 12:01 |
| ruskie | same as symbian... | 12:01 |
| joga | someone knows if this is still up-to-date info? http://www.techknots.com/mobiles/wp7-limitations | 12:02 |
| psycho_oreos | symbian is more like locked down version of windows | 12:02 |
| jonwil | what I wouldn't give for libconnui header files (and headers for related libs) | 12:02 |
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| Pavlov | joga: looks a little dated | 12:02 |
| Pavlov | but some is still accurate | 12:02 |
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| ruskie | it would be nice if everything for the N900 could be opened up... now that they basically put a bullet in the already dead horse... | 12:03 |
| * ruskie needs food... | 12:03 | |
| kerio | yeah, having source code to rapuyama would be cool | 12:03 |
| Pavlov | joga: they've announced some stuff about the mango update, as well, but no date yet | 12:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Webchat is starting - but you need to register - see above nokia.com/press | 12:03 |
| joga | Pavlov, k | 12:03 |
| Pavlov | wish they'd start -- i'd like to go to sleep | 12:05 |
| jonwil | Just having source code for the things that arent in some way sensitive would be nice | 12:05 |
| Pavlov | starting now | 12:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Talk starting now. | 12:06 |
| alterego | ruskie: we have meego now | 12:06 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes he was there with some eggs. | 12:06 | |
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| SpeedEvil | 'A war of ecosystems' - so we're pitching in with the losing side. | 12:07 |
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| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, heh s/eggs/grenades/ | 12:08 |
| SpeedEvil | This is last years speech isn't it? | 12:08 |
| SpeedEvil | s/meego/wp7/ | 12:08 |
| Pavlov | heh | 12:08 |
| Pavlov | the real question is: when is the first phone | 12:09 |
| psycho_oreos | might even be better if you smited elop with a small cake | 12:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | Any bets that he says the word meego once? | 12:10 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah as in `we decided to break up with Intel in terms of meego development' :p | 12:10 |
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| * psycho_oreos is gutted | 12:10 | |
| stevomanu | yo all have a major issue using ubuntu10.10 every time i connect my n900 it crashes my pc anybody any idea ?>? | 12:10 |
| Pavlov | SpeedEvil: and if he does, that he calls it maygo? ;) | 12:11 |
| psycho_oreos | stevomanu, I don't have that version of ubuntu and I sort of found the issue was related to the USB hub I was connecting the device to | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | stevomanu: Odd. Do you get an oops or something? | 12:11 |
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| stevomanu | nope just dies out , if i boot windows its all fine !! but ubuntu an backtrack both crash !! | 12:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Damn - I really wish I had eggs now. | 12:12 |
| stevomanu | psycho_oreos its the same in all of my usbs | 12:12 |
| jonwil | If I was there, I would hit elop with a pie, not eggs | 12:13 |
| jonwil | :P | 12:13 |
| alterego | stevomanu: works fine for me, even with two N900s connected simultaneously. | 12:13 |
| psycho_oreos | stevomanu, weird, not sure then. | 12:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh my god! It has hotmail! I'm getting it. | 12:13 |
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| stevomanu | my n900 has just come back from nokia broken usb , its every since that but cant really see thats the problem # | 12:13 |
| Pavlov | hotmail might be better than ovi mail | 12:13 |
| jonwil | so many things I could do for the N900 (on either Maemo or MeeGo) if I just had a few pieces of information/headers :P | 12:15 |
| Pillum | jonwil: what do you want to do | 12:15 |
| Pillum | ? | 12:15 |
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| jonwil | Firstly there is cell broadcast (which is definatly possible if we knew the right way to connect to/listen for the IncomingCBS DBUS signal | 12:16 |
| Pavlov | this feels to me like they havent fully put a plan together yet | 12:16 |
| zutesmog1 | i wonder if any of the closed drivers might get opened up under the "meego open source project" | 12:16 |
| zutesmog1 | :-) | 12:16 |
| jonwil | I cant see any of the N900 binary blobs being opened up | 12:17 |
| jonwil | either for Maemo or MeeGo | 12:17 |
| zutesmog1 | :-( | 12:17 |
| jonwil | All of the binary blobs are closed for valid reasons | 12:17 |
| jonwil | like the BME which is closed due to risk of battery damage | 12:17 |
| jonwil | and the PowerVR blobs | 12:17 |
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| Pillum | jonwil: mediaplayer is closed for what? risk of playing bad music? :D | 12:18 |
| jonwil | lots of stuff was closed on Maemo because of other reasons like | 12:18 |
| jonwil | "product differentation" | 12:18 |
| jonwil | which was the case for a lot of UI code on Fremantle | 12:18 |
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| zutesmog1 | which is sort of irelevant now | 12:19 |
| jonwil | yeah it would be good to see more Maemo Fremantle code | 12:19 |
| jonwil | but I dont see it happening :( | 12:19 |
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| zutesmog1 | maybe a last hurrah ! | 12:20 |
| jonwil | Also on my wishlist is N900 GPS on MeeGo which right now is non-existent. If Nokia documented the isi/phonet calls for the N900 GPS, that could be solved | 12:20 |
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| Pavlov | i want my nokwinpho | 12:21 |
| zutesmog1 | can't see anything the community does now can either compromise nokias direction or maemo/meego dev group :-) | 12:22 |
| kerio | how much did nokia's stock crash? | 12:22 |
| Pillum | i will drop a bomb on nokia if theyll release n9 with win or wont release it at all | 12:22 |
| joga | 9 point something percent? | 12:23 |
| Khertan | kerio: -9.44% currently | 12:23 |
| ruskie | omg | 12:23 |
| Pillum | im cereal | 12:23 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, it went under 0 | 12:23 |
| Khertan | 9.56 | 12:23 |
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| ruskie | hopefully they haven't signed anything yet... | 12:24 |
| Pavlov | he said t | 12:24 |
| mavhc | how much is MS paying them to do this? | 12:24 |
| * jonwil wishes he had the Cellmo-headers and Cellmo-icpr82-headers packages that used to exist in nokia-binaries but don't exist there anymore | 12:25 | |
| ruskie | probably the other way | 12:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh. | 12:25 |
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| zutesmog1 | done deal nothing will change for 2 years when it dawns on them that it wasn't a good move :-j | 12:25 |
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| * jonwil also wishes he had access to the Symbian source code that was published one but is now no longer available for download | 12:26 | |
| mavhc | Ms would pay nokia not to use android | 12:26 |
| Pillum | the ineternet nevar forgets | 12:26 |
| zutesmog1 | 100 mill to not run dalvik is my guess | 12:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I read that as meego device - one phone - and then no more. | 12:27 |
| Pavlov | yeah | 12:27 |
| SpeedEvil | With all devs then being pushed onto w7 or symbian | 12:27 |
| Pavlov | symbian will be going away too | 12:28 |
| Pavlov | except maybe s40 | 12:28 |
| Noma | s40 is not symbian | 12:28 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - I mean the low end. | 12:28 |
| ruskie | hopefully s40 sticks around | 12:28 |
| mavhc | http://code.google.com/p/python-for-android/downloads/list | 12:28 |
| ruskie | but just in case need to get one of those for my own use if ever it arises | 12:28 |
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| ruskie | mavhc, why does there need to be "for-something"... | 12:29 |
| ruskie | I don't need python for maemo | 12:29 |
| ruskie | or ruby for maemo... | 12:29 |
| ruskie | it's the same core as on the desktop... | 12:29 |
| ruskie | anything that needs a "for-something" isn't the same | 12:29 |
| zutesmog1 | unfortunately python for android has no real ui though you could in theory do it sdl | 12:29 |
| zutesmog1 | s/sdl/vi sdl/ | 12:30 |
| infobot | zutesmog1 meant: unfortunately python for android has no real ui though you could in theory do it vi sdl | 12:30 |
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| Khertan | zutesmog: really ? | 12:30 |
| zutesmog1 | s/vi/via/ | 12:30 |
| zutesmog1 | yeah pygame supposedly runs on android | 12:31 |
| kerio | yeah, but i suspect devs want something integrated with the UI | 12:31 |
| Khertan | zutesmog: it s ok for game ... but ouch making a application ui with pygame is a long path | 12:31 |
| zutesmog1 | yep so its still not a great story | 12:32 |
| * jonwil still needs to find someone with access to 2 different wireless networks, both of which they can see at the same time | 12:32 | |
| Khertan | does it s possible to code directly on device on android ? (java, or something else) to do end user app like i do it with my n900 ? | 12:33 |
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| kerio | well at least we can hope that nokia will release full source code of qt and maemo | 12:33 |
| jonwil | qt is already fully open source | 12:33 |
| Khertan | kerio: lol ... i doubt they will | 12:33 |
| jonwil | maemo being more open would be great | 12:33 |
| jonwil | but it wont happen | 12:33 |
| jonwil | unfortunatly | 12:33 |
| MohammadAG | Qt's open... | 12:33 |
| mece | well cordia will be awesome | 12:33 |
| mece | I hope | 12:33 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: i thought it was still with that weird license | 12:34 |
| zutesmog1 | pyjamas python bindings for webkit might be an alternative for android in the near term but its all a work around | 12:34 |
| jonwil | no, QT is LGPL last I checked | 12:34 |
| MohammadAG | Khertan, probably not | 12:34 |
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| MohammadAG | I think Android doesn't even have python | 12:34 |
| Coke | you can run python through jython iirc | 12:34 |
| mece | this ms garbage makes me more enthusiastic about fully open source meego | 12:35 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Android has got its own scripting language | 12:35 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Java! =) | 12:35 |
| nomis | kerio: QT is LGPL, but you *can* buy a commercial license if you want to change and distribute QT without making your changes public. | 12:35 |
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| mece | hahha | 12:35 |
| RST38h | Why would you need Python, with Java being so perfect? | 12:35 |
| ruskie | rofl | 12:35 |
| zutesmog1 | :-) | 12:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Lol | 12:36 |
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| kerio | RST38h: python >>>>>>>>>>> java | 12:37 |
| ruskie | hahahaha | 12:37 |
| kerio | s/>/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/g | 12:37 |
| infobot | kerio meant: RST38h: python >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>... | 12:37 |
| zutesmog1 | maybe something will come of pypy on arm - we can only hope | 12:37 |
| MohammadAG | I'm thinking of starting Mer v2 | 12:37 |
| kerio | i still haven't tried pypy :| | 12:37 |
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| kerio | yay, there's mac binaries now | 12:38 |
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| range | jonwil: Ask me again this evening (european time) or over the weekend: I do have access to two different networks in my appartement :) | 12:39 |
| range | jonwil: Or tell me what you're looking for. | 12:39 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: I have got a better idea | 12:40 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Rather than hold onto this or that Linux distro, why not use that goddamn QML/QtQuick to create a platform-agnostic mobile desktop/app suite? | 12:41 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Then use other peoples' work in putting Linux onto Android phones | 12:42 |
| jonwil | I think the way forward is something like what happened to OpenSolaris when Oracle bought Sun | 12:42 |
| Pavlov | grr | 12:42 |
| jonwil | a community project was set up to replace those bits that got in the way of forward movement... | 12:43 |
| jonwil | range: are you comfortable with compiling things for the N900 and loading them onto the phone? | 12:43 |
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| range | jonwil: Um, not really, no. | 12:44 |
| ruskie | http://www.road.de/en/index.html <-- hmm | 12:44 |
| jonwil | ok, well I can provide a binary file | 12:45 |
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| range | At least I don't have anything set up to do so at the moment. | 12:45 |
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| jonwil | are you comfortable running this binary then? | 12:45 |
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| range | Well, I see you're well known around here - if my n900 still works after that :) | 12:45 |
| range | BBIAM. | 12:46 |
| jonwil | dont worry, this file is tested on my N900, its just a logging thing, worst that could happen is if you leave it running too long and it somehow fills up all space on wherever /var/log lives | 12:46 |
| jonwil | but the logging is only small amount | 12:46 |
| jonwil | and you can turn it off any time | 12:46 |
| jonwil | so there is no risk of that | 12:47 |
| alterego | Which will cause you device to enter an infinite reboot loop :P | 12:50 |
| alterego | s/you/your | 12:50 |
| jonwil | well the test should be concluded long before it can full the device up | 12:50 |
| jonwil | its a matter of "copy some files to the device, run a shell script to load the test policy plugin, do some wireless network things, run another shell script to unload the plugin, copy off the log file" | 12:51 |
| alterego | Sure, depending how full it is already :d | 12:51 |
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| alterego | otoh, Symbian suddenly doesn't seem so bad :D | 12:58 |
| psycho_oreos | yuck | 12:58 |
| ruskie | hehe | 12:58 |
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| lolloo | ya | 13:00 |
| lolloo | bad news for nokia | 13:00 |
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| psycho_oreos | if getting symbian is just to be loyal with nokia after the fallout of maemo, one needs to get their head checked. | 13:01 |
| lolloo | agreed | 13:01 |
| alterego | Heh, that's not what I'm saying | 13:02 |
| alterego | I'm just saying, I'd rather Symbian than WP | 13:02 |
| psycho_oreos | I'd rather android or even iOS over WP | 13:02 |
| psycho_oreos | symbian is like a defunct child of windows | 13:03 |
| alterego | Symbian, with a nice Qt UX would be great imo | 13:04 |
| ZogG | LOL | 13:04 |
| ZogG | i just read it | 13:04 |
| psycho_oreos | symbian is no better than iOS, locking down user's rights | 13:05 |
| ZogG | let's go troll #meego | 13:05 |
| range | jonwil: I have no problem with reflashing the phone when something goes wrong or running "unstable" software. | 13:05 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, ping | 13:05 |
| psycho_oreos | making it look pretty won't make the overall user experience any better for tinkerers | 13:06 |
| jonwil | ok, great | 13:06 |
| ZogG | range, i get bluescreen on flashing =( | 13:06 |
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| ZogG | i don't get it, when there is one loser with one Os and other loser with other, why do they think that together they wouldn't be double losers? | 13:07 |
| ZogG | simple math | 13:07 |
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| Khertan | i didn't consider nokia as 0 (until tomorrow) | 13:09 |
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| Khertan | ZogG: but anyway 0*1 = 0 ... same result | 13:09 |
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| ZogG | Khertan until today | 13:11 |
| ZogG | Khertan, that's the time to make your own company with meego phones =) | 13:11 |
| alterego | ZogG: I've been thinking the same :D | 13:12 |
| * jonwil wishes he could find that @!$%$^@#$ Symbian source code :P | 13:13 | |
| alterego | Heh | 13:13 |
| ZogG | but it wouldbn't work | 13:13 |
| alterego | bbl | 13:13 |
| ZogG | only cause if you succeed Nokia will sue you and use all your hard work | 13:13 |
| ZogG | but seriously, how hard it's to buy phone by parts | 13:14 |
| ZogG | even without nice looking case | 13:14 |
| jonwil | all I can find for Symbian is links to the no-longer-existent source code and announcements about it :( | 13:15 |
| psycho_oreos | there's lots of chinese n900 clones, it shouldn't be too hard for one to get them to create n900 with some leaked n9 internal specs | 13:15 |
| jonwil | Most of the chinese clones are using low-quality hardware | 13:16 |
| alterego | expensive | 13:16 |
| psycho_oreos | that's true but there are some that can do clones of n900 in proper if I'm not mistaken | 13:16 |
| psycho_oreos | there's not much other choice considering nokia decides to desert the maemo/meego community in favour of wp7 | 13:17 |
| Khertan | ZogG: it s an idea | 13:17 |
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| ZogG | m9 is nice phone | 13:18 |
| ZogG | and as well you don't need n9 specs | 13:18 |
| ZogG | as you can use your own | 13:18 |
| compengi | sorry i was disconnected | 13:18 |
| compengi | does anybody has issues with GPS? | 13:19 |
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| Necc | no. GPS works fine. it is prooved ages ago. | 13:20 |
| compengi | i opened ovi maps and left the device for ~20 minutes, it couldn't connect | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | Well, at least the CSSU will last longer now :) | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | No obvious N900 successor! | 13:21 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:21 |
| compengi | showed all the time, searching gps | 13:21 |
| Necc | OVI map turns off the GPS after a specified time due to energy safe reasons | 13:22 |
| Necc | *save | 13:23 |
| Necc | aaarg time to drink another ice coffee | 13:23 |
| * Khertan think it ll be time to study how to do some mods hacks to add memory in n900 | 13:23 | |
| ZogG | Jaffa i think we should make MohammadAG new leader and open our own company =) | 13:23 |
| * Sicelo supports ZogG's idea | 13:24 | |
| * mece also | 13:24 | |
| ZogG | i want to talk to DocScrutinizer about it | 13:25 |
| * Khertan like it too ... but put MohammadAG has a leader is bad idea ... his tech skill can be used better than wasting them in leading team :) | 13:25 | |
| ZogG | as he has some experience | 13:25 |
| ZogG | Khertan disagreed | 13:25 |
| compengi | Necc, hmm.. how do i get it work then | 13:26 |
| Khertan | i see it more as a tech leader | 13:26 |
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| ZogG | the problem of big compnies that doesn't work with free software is that they have leader that doesn't give a shit and understand how it works in OpenSource | 13:26 |
| Necc | can i ask for a little help? months ago i installed "advanced clock plugin", possibly one of the firsts versions. I uninstalled it quite a while now, but inside "Settings" application, there are still a menu point labeled: "Advanced Clock Plugin" however i uninstalled it. There are any way to remove it from the "Settings"? | 13:26 |
| ZogG | and he doesn't care about devs and you | 13:26 |
| Necc | compengi use something else then OVI maps, or use mobile/wifi network for A-GPS functionality | 13:27 |
| compengi | btw where do i see the satellites | 13:27 |
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| ZogG | Necc try to reinstall and uninstall again | 13:27 |
| Necc | you need 3-rd parity apps for this | 13:27 |
| ZogG | compengi, in the sky =) | 13:27 |
| Necc | ZogG: can't it says some error | 13:27 |
| ZogG | what errors | 13:28 |
| ZogG | did you try t force it? | 13:28 |
| compengi | ZogG, very intelligent answer | 13:28 |
| Necc | force? | 13:29 |
| Necc | dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/advanced-clock-plugin_0.15.3_armel.deb (--unpack): | 13:30 |
| Necc | trying to overwrite `/opt/maemo/usr/bin/advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui', which is also in package advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui | 13:30 |
| Necc | of course the file do not exists, i removed it manually | 13:30 |
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| ZogG | Necc apt-get install -f package | 13:32 |
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| compengi | Necc, what other navigation app do you suggest | 13:33 |
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| ZogG | compengi try mappero | 13:33 |
| Necc | compengi i don't use any, but i read maemo bugs months ago about this, i just wrote down what i read | 13:33 |
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| ZogG | i need DocScrutinizer !! | 13:34 |
| Necc | ZogG: same error as above (apt-get install -f advanced-clock-plugin) | 13:34 |
| ZogG | Necc try clean autoremove and check comands | 13:34 |
| Necc | apt-get clean | 13:35 |
| Necc | crap | 13:35 |
| Necc | too many window open... not like if this helps but i'll see | 13:35 |
| Necc | no change... | 13:36 |
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| erstazi | Well, Nokia is leaving n900 users in the dust. | 13:38 |
| Necc | Nokia *DO NOT* leaves N900 users in the dust... | 13:38 |
| LinuxCode | Nokia always left people in the dust, as no updates were made for mameo after a few years anyway | 13:39 |
| erstazi | LinuxCode: agreed | 13:39 |
| LinuxCode | however, now that meego is there | 13:39 |
| erstazi | even since Nokia 770 | 13:39 |
| LinuxCode | and the linux foundations runs it | 13:39 |
| LinuxCode | Im hopeful | 13:39 |
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| erstazi | I wonder where this partnership with microsoft will leave meego, even. | 13:40 |
| LinuxCode | and longer term, I hope we can get the meego stuff thats important, into Fedora | 13:40 |
| ZogG | no updates for meego now | 13:40 |
| LinuxCode | so I can run the distribution I want | 13:40 |
| ZogG | ooo ooos nokia is not realing it =) | 13:40 |
| Necc | honestly, sometime you people what updates do you hope for? infinite lifetime updates or what? | 13:40 |
| erstazi | haha | 13:40 |
| LinuxCode | erstazi, Noia is dropping meego,, from what I read, apart from for its tablets | 13:40 |
| LinuxCode | if they ever make tablets | 13:41 |
| psycho_oreos | they plan to | 13:41 |
| Per_n900 | I seriously can not believe this. I am done with nokia, I love my n900, but this is just... No. Microsoft, windows phone 7, sigh. | 13:41 |
| LinuxCode | until windows tablet OS comes along | 13:41 |
| LinuxCode | now that they will do arm | 13:41 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 13:41 |
| GAN900 | Oh fuck me. | 13:41 |
| erstazi | maybe NITDroid is looking good. | 13:41 |
| psycho_oreos | `Extending the scope of Qt further will be our first MeeGo-related open source device, which we plan to ship later this year. Though our plans for MeeGo have been adapted in light of our planned partnership with Microsoft, that device will be compatible with applications developed within the Qt framework and so give Qt developers a further device to target.' - http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 | 13:41 |
| LinuxCode | erstazi, loooks ok, but I am not keen on android | 13:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | out of all that briefing, only once was meego mentioned in one paragraph.. good one nokia | 13:42 |
| Necc | don't make me laugh with such restricted OSes like windows phone 7 | 13:42 |
| LinuxCode | psycho_oreos, I give that a year maybe two | 13:42 |
| erstazi | LinuxCode: agreed, but there seems to be a future there at least | 13:42 |
| psycho_oreos | LinuxCode, maybe never! even better | 13:42 |
| LinuxCode | of sorts | 13:42 |
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| LinuxCode | as long as meego carries on dev work, I dont care | 13:42 |
| LinuxCode | be it with Nokia or with other partners | 13:42 |
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| erstazi | agreed, as long as meego carries on dev work, I am fine. | 13:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer pukes | 13:43 | |
| erstazi | I just felt that was a slap in the face with their partnership. | 13:43 |
| Per_n900 | Once again, Microsoft has held back the progress of things that would make things better. I have had it with them sons of... | 13:43 |
| erstazi | nah, Microsoft is just doing what others are doing (including iOS and to a lesser extent, Android). Walled Garden approach. I just thought Nokia wouldn't go to that length. | 13:44 |
| nidO | what would you rather they do, turn down nokia's request to buy and use their not-half-bad operating system on their phones? | 13:44 |
| erstazi | From one extreme to the other, is the shocker to me. | 13:44 |
| nidO | yeah, thats what companies like to do, turn away sales. | 13:44 |
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| LinuxCode | the worrying this is this | 13:45 |
| LinuxCode | mobiles were pretty shit the last years, because there wrre only a few systems out there | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | now, if we once again end up with 2 systems | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | one of which is ....open-sih | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | ish | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | the other completely closed | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | You forgot WP7 | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | yeah and that one | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | ;-p | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | 3.6% market share ? | 13:46 |
| LinuxCode | or whatever it was | 13:47 |
| erstazi | WP7 had 1.5% in Q4 | 13:47 |
| BCMM_ | that may change with nokia pushing it now... | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | or that | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, aww :) | 13:47 |
| erstazi | Nokia had something like 33% or something. | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | Microsoft 2009 | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | 13:47 | |
| LinuxCode | 8.7% | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | Microsoft 2010 | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | 13:47 | |
| LinuxCode | 4.2% | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | thats by gartner | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | thats not very encouraging | 13:47 |
| LinuxCode | in terms of Nokias point of view | 13:48 |
| erstazi | Microsoft definitely got the most out of this. | 13:48 |
| LinuxCode | which is why this whole saga baffles me | 13:48 |
| LinuxCode | I think Nokia doesnt get, that people like familiar things | 13:48 |
| LinuxCode | hence ipod>iphone | 13:48 |
| Per_n900 | Will this end with Microsoft buying up nokia? Its not like that is not the way the used to do things to get rid of competition... | 13:48 |
| Ken-Young | Well, at least I never have to learn Qt. | 13:49 |
| LinuxCode | or Android users using android phones | 13:49 |
| GAN900 | I shoulda fallen back to sleep instead of rolling over and picking up the phone. | 13:49 |
| nidO | my query is more the timing really - If nokia could get a raft of wp7 phones out the door in a few months tops then fine, but supposedly this is going to be a 2 year transition which will only see a select amount of devices in that time | 13:49 |
| erstazi | I guess they are still releasing a Meego Device. | 13:49 |
| LinuxCode | mainly because all they want to do is chat, use google products | 13:49 |
| LinuxCode | the stuff they do at home | 13:49 |
| nidO | I dont get how 2 years could apparently not be long enough to sort symbian's ui, and get meego fully going | 13:49 |
| erstazi | nidO: agreed | 13:49 |
| mece | i wonder. the meego device, will obviously be a project phone with no future. Which means it could be awesome for hackers | 13:50 |
| Ken-Young | erstazi, Do you still believe things that Nokia says they will do? | 13:50 |
| LinuxCode | nidO, I would ahve ditched symbian a long long time ago | 13:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | What was the earliest contact mentioned withMS - I think I heard november. | 13:50 |
| erstazi | Ken-Young: no, but they even said this in the press release today (or yesterday) | 13:50 |
| Ken-Young | erstazi, Tomorrow, they will say something different. | 13:50 |
| * GAN900 should get up and catch the sunrise. | 13:50 | |
| erstazi | Ken-Young: I am a naturally born skeptic | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: It may also be a tablet | 13:50 |
| LinuxCode | I bet you, had they chosen Android, instead of WP7 | 13:50 |
| markinfo | http://images.derstandard.at/t/12/2011/02/11/1297223689873.jpg Do you know these man? | 13:50 |
| LinuxCode | their share price would have gone up 10% | 13:51 |
| erstazi | LinuxCode: haha, no joke | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | LinuxCode: Yup. | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | LinuxCode: They are _fucking_scared_ of china though. | 13:51 |
| LinuxCode | well, they need to be scared of themselves | 13:51 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, As well they should be. | 13:51 |
| LinuxCode | android is probably a lot chaper than WP7 | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-touch-screen-tft-lcd-google-android-1-6-tablet-pc-w-wifi-samsung-s3c6410-667mhz-41984 | 13:51 |
| LinuxCode | so handsets be cheaper | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | For example | 13:52 |
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| LinuxCode | not a phone or ? | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | No, it's not. | 13:52 |
| LinuxCode | quite nice, I must admit | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | It's just an example of what's out there from random devs. | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | The parts that make it poor are generally not the parts that actually cost money. | 13:53 |
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| mece | SpeedEvil, yeah, I have a feeling it is a tablet. But I'd rather have a phone. if it has a keyboard. | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | That much - if done right. | 13:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's QC and engineering. | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - not cost per-unit money | 13:53 |
| kerio | markinfo: developers developers developers developers | 13:54 |
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| LinuxCode | SpeedEvil, tablets for me are glorified remote controls | 13:54 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 13:54 |
| Necc | so anyone any idea how can i get rid of remained junk "Advanced Clock plugin" menupoint inside "Settings"? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4469013/temp/Screenshot-20110211-125122.png | 13:54 |
| LinuxCode | I am sorry to say | 13:54 |
| akikhaw | 91 million shares traded so far today, that's quite a bit :) | 13:54 |
| kerio | the form factor of nokia internet tablets is actually really nice | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Necc: I would reinstall the latest version, and tehn uninstall it | 13:54 |
| mece | LinuxCode, they are quite nice though. But if it's just one device, I want a phone with a keyboard. I don't need a tablet for anything. | 13:54 |
| kerio | way better than those crappy android tablets | 13:54 |
| kerio | (or the ipad lol) | 13:54 |
| erstazi | Necc: let me do a search on packages | 13:54 |
| Necc | dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/advanced-clock-plugin_0.15.3_armel.deb (--unpack): | 13:55 |
| Necc | trying to overwrite `/opt/maemo/usr/bin/advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui', which is also in package advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui | 13:55 |
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| kerio | mece: is the n900 ok? | 13:55 |
| LinuxCode | mece, which si why I went for a N900 | 13:55 |
| LinuxCode | not an android device | 13:55 |
| mece | kerio, the n900 is the best device ever. | 13:55 |
| GAN900 | 2 years cracks me up | 13:55 |
| LinuxCode | as I could not find an android device with keybaord | 13:55 |
| kerio | because the n900 is perfectly fine for me and i'd really want a n900 but thinner and with some real ram | 13:55 |
| Necc | output of apt-get -f | 13:55 |
| LinuxCode | besdies the fact, Im banking on meego | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Thinner with a keyboard is _hard_ | 13:55 |
| erstazi | Necc: did you try to reinstall the package and then remove it? | 13:55 |
| mece | kerio, but one day it will be a little slow, and I will want something new | 13:55 |
| LinuxCode | I need/must have/want meego parts in Fedora | 13:55 |
| erstazi | kerio: agreed | 13:55 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: n9 prototype photos :) | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: AIUI, 512M would be 'easy' upgrade | 13:55 |
| LinuxCode | mobile units should only be mere conduits | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | As would 720MHz | 13:56 |
| LinuxCode | like you buy a pc | 13:56 |
| markinfo | kerio, Stephen Elop & Steve Ballmer | 13:56 |
| mece | kerio, so I'm hoping there will be a phone with full linux stack and lots of memory and a keyboard. | 13:56 |
| GAN900 | For all of the furious arm waving, they really aren't better off than they were yesterday. | 13:56 |
| kerio | you know what, a n900 with a faster cpu and more ram is ok | 13:56 |
| kerio | and with a better and/or bigger battery | 13:56 |
| mece | kerio, that is exactly what I want. | 13:56 |
| ruskie | GAN900, they are worse off... look at the nokia stock ;) | 13:56 |
| mece | n900 is perfect for me. | 13:56 |
| erstazi | kerio: at least we can *replace* our battery | 13:56 |
| Necc | doesn't matter what i type into apt-get, i ALWAYS get that message whenever i try to mess with that package | 13:56 |
| kerio | mece: well a full linux stack means nothing | 13:56 |
| kerio | unless you mean that you also want linux on the modem | 13:56 |
| mece | kerio, well | 13:56 |
| kerio | which could already be the case, but we don't know | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: LOL | 13:57 |
| ruskie | kerio, well cpu is fast enough imho... but bigger screen and more ram certainly... | 13:57 |
| kerio | having the source code for rapuyama would make lots of things better | 13:57 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, agreed | 13:57 |
| kerio | (and the private key for signing would be even better - but still, only the source would be fine) | 13:57 |
| timeless_xchat | jonwil: QT is apple proprietary. Qt otoh is LGPL+others | 13:57 |
| mece | kerio, regardless, I want an n900 with more memory and bigger screen. pretty much. also "not android" is a very important feature. | 13:57 |
| kerio | nah, bigger screen would make it unwieldy | 13:58 |
| ruskie | kerio, a 4" screen wouldn't | 13:58 |
| mece | and I want Qt | 13:58 |
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| Psi | only extra features i'd want in a new n900 would be faster cpu so apps in easydebian were quicker and HD tv out | 13:59 |
| * RobbieThe1st wants a n900 with a larger, high-res screen and dual-core chip :P | 13:59 | |
| kerio | in order of what's plausible: more RAM (!!!!!!!!!), faster CPU, slightly thinner, hd out, bigger/better battery, bigger screen | 13:59 |
| Psi | yeah, dualcore cpu would be good | 13:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | The n900 has something like 12 cores. | 14:00 |
| * xkr47 just wants to buy redundant n900:s while you can still get them | 14:00 | |
| MohammadAG | I wonder what the cost of a self-built device would be | 14:00 |
| Necc | RobbieThe1st: wait the new fantastic does not existing N9 to be released :P | 14:00 |
| MohammadAG | or we could convince OpenMoko to do it :P | 14:00 |
| RobbieThe1st | :P | 14:00 |
| Psi | heh | 14:00 |
| Necc | i would love my N900 if it would include 512MB physical RAM | 14:00 |
| xkr47 | I love my n900 as it is! | 14:01 |
| mece | I already love my n900. | 14:01 |
| Psi | yeah, the ram does get a bit full when you have samba and apache running :P | 14:01 |
| ruskie | xkr47, I think atleast a few of us will buy a spare n900 if not two | 14:01 |
| xkr47 | yeah | 14:02 |
| xkr47 | good | 14:02 |
| xkr47 | :) | 14:02 |
| mece | me too | 14:02 |
| mece | definately going for a spare n900 | 14:02 |
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| Ken-Young | I bought a spare this morning. | 14:02 |
| ruskie | spare n900 and some s40 device as well for when that dies | 14:02 |
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| mece | s40 wasn't going away they said | 14:02 |
| * rmrfchik sold n900 and happy ;) | 14:02 | |
| ruskie | I don't really trust them much at this point... | 14:02 |
| xkr47 | the price is slightly down from the original, nice | 14:03 |
| Psi | i dont think ill get a spare, as much as i love the n900 i think there will probably be somemthing better available when mine dies | 14:03 |
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| xkr47 | lol 18 n900s sold this morning in local computer shops | 14:03 |
| xkr47 | sorry it was yesterday, doh | 14:03 |
| ruskie | hmm 533 eur new... | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: exactly, I need another 1 or two | 14:04 |
| xkr47 | 429e here | 14:04 |
| ruskie | xkr47, lucky | 14:04 |
| ruskie | I'll hev to check around... and check at the official importer... but I'm guessing this is their price | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I'd hoped for cheap used ones now | 14:04 |
| xkr47 | who would sell.. :) | 14:05 |
| _berto_ | live webcast again -> nokia.com/press | 14:05 |
| ruskie | 265 used here | 14:05 |
| ruskie | well used new | 14:05 |
| xkr47 | wow 185 used | 14:05 |
| ruskie | by someone who doesn't want it | 14:05 |
| ruskie | warranty and all | 14:05 |
| ruskie | 180 from some ppl | 14:06 |
| ruskie | that's a more acceptable price point | 14:06 |
| xkr47 | yeah | 14:06 |
| xkr47 | to buy multiple :) | 14:06 |
| ruskie | hehe | 14:06 |
| ruskie | I was thinking just one spare | 14:07 |
| ruskie | if the hw is anywhere as durable as the n5110 was I'm expecting a good solid 5 years of runtime from one... | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia stream started again | 14:07 |
| xkr47 | :) | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | 'strategy and financial briefing. | 14:07 |
| xkr47 | let us know | 14:07 |
| ruskie | I wonder how much further their stock will crash | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | '3 buisness objectives we must pursue' 1. Reinforce leadership in mobile phones. | 14:08 |
| akikhaw | elop can talk atleast, at last quarterly, he spoke the stock back up from a ~8% crash | 14:08 |
| akikhaw | just hoping he can do the same again today :p | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | 2. Collect underpants | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | 3. ??? | 14:08 |
| ruskie | winpho certainly isn't leadership in mobile phones... | 14:09 |
| nidO | •Elop clarified that MeeGo will ship this year but "not as part of another broad smarpthone platform strategy, but as an opportunity to learn." | 14:09 |
| nidO | head > gun > trigger | 14:09 |
| GAN900 | As a Nokia investor, color me fscking pissed. | 14:09 |
| RST38h | GAN: You actually invested? | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah - he's basically saying meego was too slow and too risky. | 14:09 |
| RST38h | A true believer! | 14:10 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, sometime in 2006. It was a gift. *g* | 14:10 |
| akikhaw | RST38h: 90% of my stocks were in nokia :p | 14:10 |
| Necc | ahh sorry for asking it again but http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4469013/temp/Screenshot-20110211-125122.png -> how can i remove that junk function from there by *NOT* using dpkg or apt-get? (Please /query me as i can not follow this extremely fast chat and i can't read everyone's answer. thank you) | 14:10 |
| nidO | I cant see how development of meego can be going so slowly they cant get a decent product in place within the next 2 years | 14:10 |
| akikhaw | or, are, still | 14:10 |
| Per_n900 | Too slow and too risky, that sounds like wndows phone 7 to me. | 14:10 |
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| GAN900 | nidO, Nokia is an old, slow, ineffectual company. | 14:11 |
| GAN900 | They clearly couldn't manage to ship their grandmother an iPod. | 14:11 |
| ruskie | broken internals really | 14:11 |
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| ruskie | nothing wrong with old... | 14:11 |
| GAN900 | ruskie, indeed, but it's a symptom with Nokia, not a point of pride. | 14:12 |
| ruskie | but they should have had business phone section that makes tried and tested devices... an general population section that would do all of the fancy feature phones for teens and joe averag... | 14:12 |
| kerio | did they really say "We need to go deeper"? | 14:12 |
| kerio | I N C E P T I O N | 14:12 |
| ruskie | and a r&d environment for all the new stuff that the other two could use... | 14:12 |
| akikhaw | hmm, that explains a lot | 14:12 |
| nidO | GAN900: 2 *more* years on top of the more-than-a-year theyve already had for meego, is beyond rediculous for what was supposedly going to be their high end | 14:13 |
| akikhaw | inception was actually a documentary | 14:13 |
| ruskie | and for the love of all that is sane... don't make them compete... but cooperate... | 14:13 |
| RST38h | nid0: Well they have killed every single viable Maemo product/project | 14:13 |
| nidO | MS got wp7 from start to done in substantially less time than that, and its effectively a sideline project for MS | 14:13 |
| GAN900 | What the hell are they going to sell in the mean time? | 14:13 |
| RST38h | nid0: They killed Diablo (perfectly good platform) | 14:13 |
| GAN900 | Nobody will want to buy zombies from them. | 14:13 |
| RST38h | nid0: Then they killed Fremantle. | 14:13 |
| RST38h | nid0: Then they killed that Qt framework of theirs. | 14:13 |
| nidO | RST38h, exactly, and I cant for the life of me see why theyre repeating it. beyond pissing off a lot of devs, switching to wp7 isnt in my book an inherantly bad thing, as someone that's actually used it it's not shabby | 14:14 |
| ruskie | maybe with an experimental section that can play with all the other OSes out there... | 14:14 |
| nidO | but taking 2 bloody years to do it is beyond crazy | 14:14 |
| RST38h | nid0: You mean they will switch to WP7 in 2 years? | 14:15 |
| nidO | supposedly the next 2 years are a "transition period" which suggests to me that anything they do release in that period will be relatively sparse, and essentially testbed devices | 14:15 |
| ruskie | or simply unsupported for more than a week | 14:15 |
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| range | mv nokia foxconn2 | 14:16 |
| akikhaw | personally i read that as "2 years until the offical funeral of symbian" | 14:16 |
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| akikhaw | eg. wm and symbian side by side for 2 years | 14:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | nidO: Or they could mean that symbian mid-high range goes over to wm over that period, and new devices ASAP | 14:16 |
| akikhaw | if they don't announce a new device, or two at barcelona its going to be very bad for them | 14:17 |
| akikhaw | (that comes out very soon) | 14:17 |
| nidO | well, he had no announcement for a phone today, which suggests it could be a good 6-12 months before a wp7 nokia arrives | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 14:17 |
| akikhaw | the phone announcements should come at barcelona, not today | 14:18 |
| * ZogG mp> the.big.bang.theory.s04e15.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv [1280x720 H264 24.000fps] | 14:18 | |
| SpeedEvil | If there was a device coming down the pipe, it'd be announced today to improve share price. | 14:18 |
| nidO | they may be waiting on mwc, but it seems to me if they have anything coming anytime soon, showing it off at the same time as announcing the partnership woulda been smarter than waiting for mwc | 14:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm. That last comment was certainly as if there is no device coming down the pipe. | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | 'right now, ... chipset suppliers, ...' | 14:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | And ad-revenue from maps. | 14:19 |
| Scorcerer | i'm sorry if this is inapprioprate here, but i just have to say this to someone high in Nokia management: MORONS | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I, for one, welcome our new windows overlords. | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | (not really) | 14:21 |
| Scorcerer | please, don't say anyhing with the makers of windows company name, i already have a headache, and it's not helping | 14:22 |
| Scorcerer | what is nokia hoping to gain with this? | 14:22 |
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| ruskie | Scorcerer, nothing | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Scorcerer: 'stellar hardware, great software, a wonderful value propisition' | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Scorcerer: To quote the president. | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | (speaking right now) | 14:23 |
| ruskie | hmm stock did rise a bit... | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | nokia.com/press/ | 14:23 |
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| ruskie | http://wmpoweruser.com/summary-of-nokia-microsoft-deal-in-3-images/ | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | They basically considered that meego was too slow in coming out, and starting from 'zero' - it wasn't going to be a starter. | 14:24 |
| nidO | the kicker for nokia is going to be if intel and other backers can get meego out on moorestown, and have it pick up some decent traction | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah. | 14:24 |
| alterego | I still think the real action is around meego arm | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Possibly. | 14:25 |
| nidO | the problem for meego arm now though is that while the os is there all fine and dandy | 14:25 |
| alterego | At least in the short term 1-2 years | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Wasn't nokia the partner moslty pushing the ARM side? | 14:25 |
| Scorcerer | hope so | 14:25 |
| nidO | it needs a big name to actually ship devices using it | 14:25 |
| alterego | I funny or not, think Nokia still may be the first vendor to ship a meego handset | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's not a tablet. | 14:27 |
| ruskie | I do wonder if after that device they'll keep going on meego... | 14:27 |
| nidO | it wont help much if they ship one then forget about it, which is almost exactly what elop seems to have said will happen | 14:27 |
| ruskie | atleast as an R&D project | 14:27 |
| alterego | nidO: well, what he said was a development device would ship. | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Todays phrase of the day. | 14:28 |
| alterego | this year, it seems they're being careful about saying anything specific about the future of meego .. | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | 'Our primary strategy is windows phone'. | 14:28 |
| nidO | "not as part of another broad smartphone platform strategy" to me suggests theyll ship the one device, and itll have no nokia/ovi/anything services support | 14:28 |
| kerio | can we ask nokia to make a new hardware revision for the n900? | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: We can. | 14:28 |
| ruskie | kerio, sure but they'll just stuff fingers in ears and go lalalalalalala | 14:28 |
| kerio | will they answer affirmatively? | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: yes. | 14:28 |
| kerio | awesome, let's do that | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: If you show up with an order for 250K | 14:29 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: I think we could do that ... | 14:29 |
| ruskie | hmmm nokia stock is certainly rising | 14:29 |
| kerio | ok, we need 249519 more people | 14:29 |
| alterego | kerio: actually we need a viable strategy | 14:29 |
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| lolloo | http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=b15171a6&page=32 | 14:30 |
| alterego | Maemo, MeeGo, where now :/ | 14:30 |
| jonwil | What is wrong with the N900 as it stands now? | 14:30 |
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| jonwil | hardware-wise that is | 14:31 |
| alterego | I for one will continue to stand behind meego for as long as Nokia continue to help us. | 14:31 |
| kerio | jonwil: are you kidding | 14:31 |
| jonwil | I think its good hardware | 14:31 |
| ruskie | could do with more ram | 14:31 |
| kerio | it has like 10 bytes of ram | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Better swap algorithms can help enormously. | 14:31 |
| ruskie | beyond that... frankly don't see any other reason | 14:31 |
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| alterego | I for one will continue to stand behind meego for as long as Nokia continue to help us. | 14:31 |
| kerio | ruskie: i did a tiny list before | 14:31 |
| alterego | jonwil: it is, but what about next year. want a compass, hdmi out at 1080p resolutions and probably some more stuff. | 14:31 |
| jonwil | I am not interested in compass or HDMI | 14:32 |
| alterego | That'd I'd be interested in. | 14:32 |
| alterego | jonwil: well, you're a minority :P | 14:32 |
| nidO | jonwil, plenty of other people are tho | 14:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - he implied that meego device was a smartphone. | 14:32 |
| ruskie | people need to get together and define some sort of a mobile spec for pluggable devices... | 14:32 |
| nidO | personally, i'd just rather a less godawful keyboard | 14:32 |
| jonwil | The #1 thing I hope for from Nokia is continued support for MeeGo N900 non-oss blobs (open-souring of them would be good but that wont happen) | 14:32 |
| * andrewfblack just shakes his head has no idea what to say this morning | 14:33 | |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Pluggable devices don't work. | 14:33 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, not usb... | 14:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: I keep meaning to write a FAQ why modular doesn't work for mobile devices. | 14:33 |
| kerio | jonwil: hdmi is kinda useless, yeah | 14:33 |
| alterego | andrewfblack: :( It is a truely sad day for everyone. | 14:33 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, really why doesn't it? | 14:33 |
| ruskie | nobody never tried really | 14:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Ok. being modular has many, many costs. | 14:33 |
| jonwil | I hope also that features not currently working on N900 MeeGo can be made to work | 14:34 |
| jonwil | i.e. GPS | 14:34 |
| kerio | jonwil: more ram(!!!!!!!!!!!), more cpu (!!), slightly thinner, better antenna placement, bigger screen (no front facing camera) | 14:34 |
| jonwil | and battery status stuff | 14:34 |
| jonwil | and whatever | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Firstly. You have to reimplement stuff over boards - decoupling and stuff. 2 boards is more expensive to make than one. | 14:34 |
| alterego | jonwil: gps is almost done, as is camera and decent power management | 14:34 |
| jonwil | How is GPS on MeeGo being done? | 14:34 |
| jonwil | and camera and PM? | 14:34 |
| alterego | Same as maemo really | 14:34 |
| jonwil | so GPS is just a port of location-daemon and friends from Maemo? | 14:35 |
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| ruskie | SpeedEvil, what about single board with standardised package slots... so that all you need is drop in whatever chip you want? | 14:35 |
| alterego | jonwil: yes | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Secondly, if you have a user-pluggable module, you need a connector (which is unreliable) a outer shell for the module, an inner shell and cover for the module. A weaker cover or chassis, as you've got extra holes. | 14:35 |
| ruskie | and if it's absent ignore it | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: And extra decoupling componenets. | 14:36 |
| jonwil | I hope for binary blobs on MeeGo N900 only where absolutely necessary | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Then you run into other issues like there will always be wasted space if you pick a given module size. | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Mobile high-pin-count connectors are _hard_, and expensive. | 14:37 |
| Khertan | ruskie: http://www.buglabs.net/products | 14:37 |
| ZogG | http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=NOK1V.HE | 14:37 |
| jonwil | the ISI commands for GPS ARE documented in the wireless modem docs that Nokia published | 14:37 |
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| Khertan | ruskie: http://www.buglabs.net/intro | 14:37 |
| E0x | http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft/ | 14:37 |
| jonwil | Its just that the docs on that site dont match the actual GPS commands used for the N900 GPS | 14:37 |
| E0x | sad day for me | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Then there are other issues like antennas not matching. | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | get it, modular DOES NOT FLY for small devices | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | You can do modular. It can work. | 14:38 |
| jonwil | so if Nokia can document the proper GPS commands for N900, all the GPS blobs can go away | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | too clunky, too many source of failure | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | But expect 1.5-2* the price, and 1.5-2* the volume, and 0.8* the batery life. | 14:38 |
| jonwil | and we can write a backend for whatever open-source GPS/location thing exists | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | And 0.1* the reliabilirty. | 14:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | jonwil: gpsd | 14:38 |
| alterego | I think this summerises my dispair http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image21.png | 14:38 |
| ZogG | now i got it | 14:39 |
| jonwil | so yeah Nokia documents the isi/phonet stuff and let the community write a gpsd backend for n900 | 14:39 |
| ZogG | Nokia is failing again and again coz they used to release ready to use phone and OS and only small bugfixes are needed after | 14:39 |
| ZogG | while maemo and meego should be long term developed OS | 14:39 |
| jonwil | instead of investing effort into porting the clunky stuff from Maemo | 14:39 |
| ZogG | no i mean not that | 14:40 |
| * jonwil wonders if power stuff is going to mean more binary blobs | 14:40 | |
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| jonwil | or if all the important closed PM bits will end up in bme | 14:40 |
| ZogG | look n700 maemo2 or what ever, n800 maemo 3 n81*0 maemo4 n900 maemo5 | 14:40 |
| ZogG | but it's not same maemo | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | in the end what's the use of modular? to pay 4* the price, to have a device where you can leave out 20% so X*4*0.8, and in the end the case has to cary thin air instead of the expensive modules you left out? | 14:41 |
| ZogG | while android 2.3 is the same android 2.2 just with new features | 14:41 |
| * jonwil agrees that modular doesn't work | 14:41 | |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, what do you mean? | 14:41 |
| ruskie | modular doesn't work because nobody bothered to find a way to make it work | 14:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Frankly - you're wrong. | 14:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | ruskie: The issues have been explored for over 60 years or so. | 14:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: There has been enormous pressure to find some nice generic solution - it hasn't happened. | 14:42 |
| markinfo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg ...you must see. | 14:43 |
| markinfo | the music is the best. | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | let me put it this way: it's quite common in industry do build *one* hw that has it all, then - by *drilling holes tru traces or the like* - switch off comfort functions and sell two products: foobar-basic, with holes, and an expensive foobar-XXL without those holes | 14:43 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, a) it requires cash b) requires out of box thinking c) cellcos aren't interested d) phone manufcatrures don't want to carry the cost and brunt of the research... | 14:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | ruskie: I'm talking about the generic electronics market - this is not only an issue with phones. | 14:44 |
| markinfo | but is it symbolic that the Microsoft logo is half hidden? | 14:44 |
| kerio | well nokia is really good at hardware | 14:44 |
| jonwil | What I want to know is what OS cell carriers would like to have seen Nokia support | 14:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: The other problem is that while you do in fact get plug-in modules for 3G - say - they are all a differnet size and shape. | 14:44 |
| kerio | so maybe this won't totally suck | 14:44 |
| SpeedEvil | If you say you want a module of a given size and shape, the cost will be ruinous. | 14:45 |
| kerio | nah who am i kidding, this will suck badly | 14:45 |
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| ruskie | well I guess my point was that everyone needs to agree on common module sizes for certain stuff... | 14:45 |
| ruskie | from manufacturers to designers etc... | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: 'common module sizes' = wasted space | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Why would makers want to make modules bigger than they can? | 14:46 |
| chem|st | microsoft sucks... and any time a product is close to die they change its name and announce it as new feature rich BS being exactly the same apart of logo and naming... | 14:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: this topic has been discussed for weeks literally, in the last 4 years, in OM community alone, by dozens of savvy people, and THERE IS NO WAY to make a B2B connector design compensate for the cheap-as-dirt chips you leave out | 14:47 |
| chem|st | ^^ | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's simply more expensive to build in empty space into a device, than to populate it with the right chips | 14:48 |
| ruskie | makes no sense to me but ok... | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - look at how upgradable laptops are. | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically not, with very, very limited exceptions. | 14:49 |
| * ruskie still wishes for an upgradable laptop | 14:49 | |
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| ruskie | until such time won't have a laptop | 14:49 |
| chem|st | you may change 3 things... RAM, PCIs-cards and HDDs... | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Laptops aren't upgradable for the same reason mobiles aren't - largely. | 14:49 |
| alterego | "Another thread about Nokia and WP7" wtf | 14:50 |
| BCMM_ | fsck upgradable, even just replaceable parts would be nice | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: then your 'laptop' will have the form factor of a mini tower | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Connectors and packaging is hard. | 14:50 |
| ruskie | s/hard/expensive/ | 14:50 |
| chem|st | on mine they saved the 15c for the second pcie connector as it was not needed | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The most unreliable bits of any system are generally the connectors. | 14:50 |
| ruskie | yet I had everything else fail so far BUT the connectors | 14:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | On what? | 14:51 |
| ruskie | desktop | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the most clunky part of any system are the service doors | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | By connectors, I mean internal board-board connectors in a mobile device. | 14:51 |
| Khertan | one small pc seller, sell upgradable laptop in Paris | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | guess why iPhone has no swappable battery | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Large connectors can do things that small ones can't. | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | too clunky | 14:51 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, I don't really care if I need to take the whole device appart to do the upgrade... | 14:51 |
| ruskie | so don't really care for service doors... | 14:51 |
| Khertan | but it s look like more a pc towel with keyboard put on the side that something else | 14:51 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: it would brake their design... | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | And how reliable do you think your mobile tower will be if you bounce it around like a mobile? | 14:52 |
| ruskie | considering I don't bounce around any electronic gear... | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly, as you need a second wall inside, to protect electronics from user, you need a emovable back cover, whatnot else | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: You do not treat your mobile phone as gently as your desktop. | 14:52 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, gentler | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Put a G meter on it. | 14:53 |
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| ruskie | my desktop will get a kick every so often... | 14:53 |
| chem|st | ruskie: you got a screenprotector? | 14:53 |
| ruskie | hard one enough to leave dent in the chassis | 14:53 |
| ruskie | chem|st, yup | 14:53 |
| chem|st | ruskie: you do not need that if you are gentler with it than with your desktop... | 14:54 |
| ruskie | and it's in a soft semi-hard shell... that is in another bag | 14:54 |
| * RST38h eagerly awaiting Texrat commit suicide right in his blog =) | 14:54 | |
| nidO | I have no protector on mine | 14:54 |
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| chem|st | nidO: +1 | 14:54 |
| ruskie | chem|st, well the screenprotector is mainly on it because it's a privacy guard... | 14:54 |
| ruskie | i.e. polarized to only be viewable straight on | 14:54 |
| chem|st | ah fixed angle | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, sorry I'll leave you alone here. Mobile Modules discussion is so.... *yawn* | 14:54 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: I would love to kick those designer asses only once! | 14:55 |
| LjL | not much space to install things on on the N810 :\ | 14:55 |
| nidO | it occurs to me all this exclusivity dealing with nokia could be the major thing that hurts wp7 as a platform and "ecosystem" | 14:55 |
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| ruskie | chem|st, basically if I had a way to input pin and other things into the device without needing to use the touchscreen or to have them visible why I type them in... I wouldn't get a screenprotector... | 14:56 |
| chem|st | nidO: wp7 is not exclusive to nokia | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: you probably want to do your very own optification on N810 | 14:56 |
| nidO | chem|st: no, but nokia's ability to apparently change whatever the hell they like with it is | 14:56 |
| LjL | my what? O.o | 14:56 |
| nidO | HTC werent even allowed to use Sense on it | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 14:56 |
| infobot | hmm... optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 | 14:56 |
| nidO | so what other manus are going to bother pushing wp7 when nokia are the only ones allowed to differentiate it? | 14:56 |
| ruskie | nidO, all those with current valid contracts that won't expire for the next 5 years ? | 14:57 |
| Khertan | nidO: nokia will probably not personnalize it too much | 14:57 |
| Khertan | put a link to ovi ... who know ? | 14:58 |
| chem|st | will be pretty straight as they got no time to modify much... | 14:58 |
| nidO | Khertan: no, they've said they probably wont, but I dont imagine HTC are too chuffed when they want to, but cant, and nokia have been allowed to, but wont. | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Interesting - they say meego invesrtment will continue. | 14:58 |
| nidO | whats the incentive for HTC to keep pushing WP7 against nokia rather than just getting back fully behind android | 14:58 |
| chem|st | they will try to get it rtunning stable on some hardware put it together and TADA new device in april | 14:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | nidO: Same as anyone else | 14:59 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, I've heard that much but apparently once decoded it's something along the lines of: This will be R&D in the long term | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | nidO: HTC is not scared of nokia - somewhat. | 14:59 |
| nidO | SpeedEvil: yeah, none. may as well stick to android and ditch windows again | 14:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | nidO: HTC is scared of china - in the long term, and the commoditisation of android. | 14:59 |
| nidO | which leaves wp7 as, effectively, a nokia exclusive | 14:59 |
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| ruskie | I wonder if anyone actually introduced Elop to the cluebat... | 15:01 |
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| LjL | DocScrutinizer: uhm... unless i'm mistaken, doing that properly would mean recompiling everything to use a different directory structure. what about i symlink /usr/share to the eMMC instead? doing it with /usr might be a bit too much i guess, but somehow /usr/share feels safer | 15:01 |
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| ruskie | LjL, actually it's exactly what you said... symlinking a lot of stuff from another partition | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: the correct way to do is to *mount*, not symlink | 15:02 |
| ruskie | true | 15:02 |
| ruskie | and hope nothing breaks | 15:02 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer: so i should repartition the eMMC? :\ | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: and no, no need to recompile anything | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: yes | 15:02 |
| LjL | is the eMMC much slower than the rootfs? | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or use bindmounts on directories living on eMMC | 15:03 |
| ruskie | I was considering getting some n8x0 devices as upnp players/control points for home... | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: not that much | 15:03 |
| LjL | i'll investigate bindmounts then, i'm not keen on repartitioning, right now | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LjL: ...and your overall user experience will get better even, as you can have more space on rootfs, and place some files with heavy traffic there | 15:04 |
| LjL | hmm, rootfs porn... | 15:04 |
| * LjL kids | 15:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer | LjL: the only catch is: you need to do these bindmounts early in init process, prior to accessing any of the bits in /usr | 15:05 |
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| LjL | /etc/fstab won't do? | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | this might incluse some mv of a few binaries from /usr/* to /* | 15:06 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: you mean like IT SHOULD BE DONE in a real unix system? | 15:06 |
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| kerio | with the stuff in /usr/ not necessary to the boot process before mounting volumes? | 15:06 |
| LjL | yeah that's the idea of /usr as i knew it :P | 15:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: see ~optification | 15:06 |
| kerio | i know, i know | 15:06 |
| kerio | i'm just saying that whoever put binaries required to boot in /usr/ needs to be shot | 15:07 |
| LjL | well... if i only do it with /usr/share, there shouldn't be an issue with boot, methinks? | 15:07 |
| kerio | LjL: maybe! | 15:07 |
| LjL | *crosses fingers* | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | for example on maemo5/N900 it's a *bug* that parts of PA are in /usr/* while early in init they use PA to playback the shakehands video | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ergo PA needs to move from /usr/* to /* | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | at least that's what FHS says /usr is meant to be like | 15:09 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: no, we need to stop with the bullshit video | 15:09 |
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| kerio | there's no reason why the boot process requires audio | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the better alternative :-D | 15:10 |
| kerio | or, at least requiring pulseaudio | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: exactly | 15:10 |
| kerio | *requires | 15:10 |
| ruskie | kerio, there are some libs that stuff in /bin requires from /usr/lib as well | 15:10 |
| kerio | ruskie: and whoever put them there needs to be shot as well | 15:10 |
| javispedro | morning. | 15:10 |
| kerio | why the hell do we use busybox | 15:11 |
| kerio | i thought not having to rely on a shitton of libraries was one of the reasons | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: then somebody had a gashead when installing those bits in /bin depending on /usr/lib instead of /lib | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: moaning | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: yep | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 15:12 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 15:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | generally executables depending on /usr/* go to /usr/(s)bin, NOT /(s)bin | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | To be fair, using 'normal' tools on a low memory device is insane. | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | nonsense | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | busybox uses less RAM, starts builtin processes faster. | 15:14 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, when defininng low memory as it used to be... 8MB... | 15:14 |
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| ruskie | when you have 256mb of mem... there is no sane reason... | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: That's not really true - it's not only RAM | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: using busybox as a login shell, THAT *IS* insane | 15:15 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: +1 | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ash uses a whole lot less memory on startup than bash. This means it's faster when memory is contended | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 15:15 |
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| javispedro | also, it doesn't fork as often as bash. | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and how do I care for my xterm?? | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I give a flying F about forks | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | For interactive use, it's not an issue | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not arguing against bash for interactive. | 15:17 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, talking about busybox ash with most options disabled? or something like dash? | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dudes, I got 256MB RAM plus lots of swap on this device. My last laptop running full sized Opensuse10 had 192MB, and a 300MHz P-II, and I got KDE running on it | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus bash OF COURSE | 15:18 |
| javispedro | and yet if you try to run KDE on the N900 it will be deadly slow. | 15:18 |
| ruskie | javispedro, yes but the cause isn't the device | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus manpages, though it had a 12GB HDD | 15:18 |
| ruskie | it's the coders... | 15:18 |
| javispedro | when it happens for one application, it's the device. | 15:19 |
| ruskie | now-a-days nobody bothers to even remotely optimize their code | 15:19 |
| javispedro | *it's the coders ;) | 15:19 |
| javispedro | when it happens for each application... | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Whatever the shell is on the n900 | 15:19 |
| ruskie | javispedro, not really... | 15:20 |
| javispedro | what I just what to mean is that sadly the performance of the N900 is not comparable to a 300 Mhz laptop. | 15:20 |
| ruskie | javispedro, I can run midori vs firefox... and there will be a huge difference... | 15:20 |
| javispedro | see | 15:20 |
| RST38h | moo javispedro | 15:20 |
| javispedro | I run Eclipse on my Celeron 333Mhz with 96MiB of RAM (yes, 96MiB) | 15:20 |
| RST38h | javispedro: having fun? =) | 15:20 |
| javispedro | however, I've tried to do so on the N900 -- disaster. | 15:20 |
| RST38h | (and the first mistake is obviously to run Eclipse) | 15:21 |
| javispedro | RST38h: yes, having fun =) | 15:21 |
| javispedro | RST38h: reading #meego too I guess, so you having fun too :) | 15:21 |
| ruskie | javispedro, good for you... I've seen eclipse bring a lot better systems than that to a crawl | 15:21 |
| RST38h | javispedro: oh yes | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: guess why. Just because there's not even 50MB *free* RAM left over on N900 | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | with all those UIs fixed to mem | 15:21 |
| * jonwil wishes he could find someone who has contacts at nokia and can ask about possibility of n900 GPS isi/phonet info and some other stuff :P | 15:22 | |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: naa there's way more than that, they're not fixed to mem. | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually. | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I just checked | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | sh& | 15:22 |
| RST38h | javispedro: The Tentacled One is going to be mightily constipated on all this food tonight | 15:22 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: see .desktop files, they have a field which indicates at which values of free mem they're pinned into memor | 15:22 |
| javispedro | RST38h: probably mine as well. | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | uses 208K RAM, bash& 164k | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Surprising | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It wasn't that way last time I lookd | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really, as messybox comes with all that useless halfarsed cruft builtin | 15:23 |
| Coke | Are there any employees at Nokia working with things like Qt, PySide and MeeGo still? | 15:23 |
| ruskie | SpeedEvil, what where you checking? | 15:23 |
| ruskie | ps aux? | 15:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Well, I hope that for you, this is not a moment for catharsis etc =) | 15:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | no - unique memory used | 15:24 |
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| ruskie | SpeedEvil, what tool did you use? | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.selenic.com/smem/download/ - the 'smem' python script | 15:24 |
| ruskie | ahh | 15:24 |
| lardman | X-Fade: ping | 15:25 |
| * jonwil doubts he will ever be able to complete any of his | 15:25 | |
| jonwil | his N900 reverse engineering projects | 15:25 |
| ruskie | on my desktop system... dash 132 | bash 1628 | zsh 2672 | 15:26 |
| * jonwil doubts he will ever get any of the info he is seeking | 15:26 | |
| ruskie | don't think I have a busybox around on this... | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: Is that uss? | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | unique set size - the unique mapped pages? | 15:27 |
| ruskie | yup | 15:27 |
| lardman | jonwil: use it as a reason to write your own decompiler? ;) | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: you need to run at least two copies of each shell | 15:27 |
| Khertan | SpeedEvil: smem ... hum ... | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | RSS counts mapped pages. This includes multiply mapped pages. If your app maps libc - you don't actually want to count that memory in the memory footprint. | 15:28 |
| ruskie | zsh 2664 bash 1544 dash 60|64 | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | USS is unique set size - pages used only by this process. PSS is proportional set size. This counts 1/150th of libcs pages, if there are 150 processes using it | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly guys. Bothering about 208k vs 164k of RAM(!!)? c'mon. There's simply NO sane reason to have messybox as your login shell. There's a lot of sense in using it as scripting shell during init though | 15:29 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, not really... dash can do things probably better | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm nt arguing it's good for login shell. | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: eeh? sorry? | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | At least on n900, ash started lots faster than bash. | 15:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | in some test cripts I did a bit ago. | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | STARTED? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | how did you start it? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | from a shell I gues? | 15:31 |
| ruskie | load time really depends on the binary size in the end | 15:31 |
| ruskie | if you want to see what outperforms try a few 1000+ loops | 15:31 |
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| kkal | sad day today | 15:31 |
| ruskie | some things actually run better in bash than in other things | 15:31 |
| kkal | no? | 15:31 |
| ruskie | kkal, yup | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I was doing that sort of stuff - benchmarking 'realistic' startup scripts. | 15:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | There were meego devices in HW devel. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | More than one. | 15:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | These are being repurposed as windows phones. | 15:32 |
| ruskie | well if you want best peformance there you want a single unified boot script... | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: In busybox, lots is bundled in the same binary | 15:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | starting - for example - dd - is lots faster | 15:33 |
| Khertan | SpeedEvil: i like smem ! | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | I want best manageability | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Lol. Someone mentioned throwing chairs. :) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I don't care much about what OS I'm deleting to flash maemo/meego/SHR to the device. Be it W7 or sybian or andridiot | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | I was wondering if tehre might be any scope for support of meego on a 'specs only' basis for the community. | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't care about the lemmings buying latest 'cool stuff' - be they happy with W7 | 15:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: now that'S a good point to rise to Nokia | 15:36 |
| Khertan | Ouch QML Use really more memory ! | 15:36 |
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| Khertan | Khweeteur use 14.8Mb while just a list of tweet from khweeteur in QML use 27.7Mb | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | extremely compelling to them, as it costs them nothing and earns them community driven meego for their eventually coming smartphones-meego | 15:37 |
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| Khertan | DocScrutinizer only if there is still a community | 15:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia: sell your phones with "choose your OS" option! unique in the market | 15:39 |
| Khertan | DocScrutinizer: it ll be an idea :) | 15:40 |
| ruskie | definately interesting | 15:40 |
| ruskie | they should partner with always innovating... they seem to have a clue about that | 15:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, with added windows button? :) | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | N9 - comes with W7, Andridiot, and meego. Sybian next year. You choose! | 15:41 |
| * jonwil doesn't have the skills to produce his own ARM decompiler | 15:42 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia needs to learn they are seling HARDWARE, not OS | 15:42 |
| jonwil | and even if I had one, it wouldn't help with some of the tricky stuff | 15:42 |
| Khertan | DocScrutinizer: Integrated Sybian ? | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 15:42 |
| Khertan | :) | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 15:42 |
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| * jonwil would give ANYTHING for a set of libisi header files :P | 15:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: you know the names to ping | 15:44 |
| jonwil | which names are those? | 15:44 |
| jonwil | remind me again | 15:44 |
| * jonwil forgets stuff | 15:44 | |
| * alterego finds it important to make notes. | 15:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer | stskeeps, tekojo, collabora maybe | 15:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | jonwil, if anything I think qwerty12 did have something like de-ice plus probably whatever fancy scripts he has ontop of it to decode the stuff | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | even quim gil | 15:44 |
| psycho_oreos | too bad he left for the android realm | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: first addressee: council | 15:45 |
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| jonwil | ok, so I should ping the council? Or ping stskeeps? Or tekojo? | 15:46 |
| ruskie | hmm sad stock went a bit up... then straight down again | 15:46 |
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| alterego | I doubt Collabora could help, I could ask if you want though. | 15:46 |
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| crashanddie | I hereby announce I am no longer interested in any Maemo or Nokia related projects. Please only highlight me for funny and/or entertaining stuff. | 15:47 |
| jonwil | collabora probably cant share the info I need (if they even have it), only Nokia can | 15:47 |
| crashanddie | feel free to take my ops, whatever. | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: NOOOOO, so I can't do that, or otherwise no ops anymore here :-P | 15:47 |
| crashanddie | who fucking cares? | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 15:48 |
| crashanddie | not like this channel will be of any interest 6 months down the line | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Will to some. | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's probably sadly right | 15:48 |
| alterego | 6 months isn't too long. | 15:48 |
| psycho_oreos | the tombstone has been set | 15:48 |
| jonwil | Just need to find the right people to ping to ask if getting this info is possible (along with describing the use case for it) | 15:49 |
| jonwil | if the Council is the right place to start, I need contact details for that | 15:49 |
| ruskie | 13:32: 7.33 0.82 (10.01%) <-- whoa... | 15:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer off for booze, with funeral march and lots of tears shed | 15:49 | |
| Noma | is there any considerable little independent mobile phone company that could make linux phones with decent hardware? | 15:49 |
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| alterego | Awwww | 15:49 |
| Noma | there could be market for such | 15:49 |
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| alterego | And I was thinking updated maemo ssu with up-to-date meego binary blobs | 15:49 |
| alterego | Maybe even hardfp ... | 15:50 |
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| * crashanddie gets ready to pre-order an iPad 2, and buys some random Android tablet | 15:50 | |
| RST38h | crash; Don't forget to get a crackberry | 15:50 |
| ruskie | Noma, http://road.de | 15:50 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, already have that :) | 15:50 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, have had for quite some time | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Noma: basically - the problem is you can't be a small little independant mobile phone company that makes competitively priced smartphones with 3G | 15:50 |
| psycho_oreos | they'll soon have plabook | 15:50 |
| psycho_oreos | s/plabook/playbook/ | 15:51 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: they'll soon have playbook | 15:51 |
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| lardman | jonwil: there's also a justification page in the maemo wiki which might be worth filling out | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Noma: Simply as the pricing structure of the electronics market, and electronics production works against you. | 15:51 |
| psycho_oreos | Noma, have a look at openmoko :) | 15:51 |
| Noma | SpeedEvil: they don't have to necesserily be competitively priced, the geek community could still be interested | 15:51 |
| lardman | so have Nokia now jumped into bed with M$ or was I dreaming this morning? | 15:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Noma: Really? | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Noma: You'd have bought a n900 at twice the price? | 15:51 |
| alterego | Pandora project can do it? :D | 15:51 |
| psycho_oreos | lardman, its official already | 15:51 |
| psycho_oreos | then there's aava mobile :p | 15:52 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: N900 was competitively priced? | 15:52 |
| Noma | if my choices are HTC Desire Z for 600 euros and Nokia N900 for 1000 euros, I would've bought the latter | 15:52 |
| lardman | Atom, poor power consumption | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://goldelico.de/Hardware.html http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04&referer=Neo Freerunner | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 15:52 |
| psycho_oreos | alas it did run moblin :) | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | idiots | 15:52 |
| lardman | well apparently Nokia are still planning to release a Meego device this year | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | <http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04&referer=Neo Freerunner> | 15:53 |
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| psycho_oreos | that'll probably be a tablet based as rumours say | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | lardman, what's the point, really? | 15:53 |
| lardman | works for me | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | or http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04&referer=Neo%20Freerunner ?? | 15:53 |
| psycho_oreos | rumours have already said that they've axed n9 | 15:53 |
| lardman | crashanddie: well one does have to hope that mobile Linux will survive | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | lardman, you honestly believe people will dev for a device that has no chance of offspring? | 15:53 |
| lardman | though really Symbian without all the crap would be a better mobile kernel | 15:54 |
| crashanddie | I'm not going to waste my time with any of that shit | 15:54 |
| xkr47 | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/nokiawebcast-4.pdf-page-32-of-38.jpg | 15:54 |
| lardman | crashanddie: people dev for Linux because it's a religion, devices are not that important | 15:54 |
| lardman | not everyone I hasten to add | 15:54 |
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| crashanddie | lol xkr47, Symbian is worse off than MeeGo? | 15:55 |
| lardman | so do we have a read on what will happen to Meego? Apparently it will still be a business entity for Nokia, but presumably very long range | 15:55 |
| alterego | I will develop for what I have, I hope I continue to have the quality and flexibilty to do so in what we've had with the NITs | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: It was mentioned as a smartphone during the talk | 15:55 |
| xkr47 | crashanddie, the meego:symbian percentage seems the same as meego:wp7 | 15:55 |
| alterego | lardman: quim tweeted "midterm innovation" in regards to meego | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | lardman, [10:57:32] <crashanddie> "Nokia’s one-year collaboration with the chip maker Intel called MeeGo, to produce a new generation of Nokia smartphones, will become a long-term open-source project designed to develop new kinds of devices, Mr. Elop said." | 15:56 |
| crashanddie | [10:57:50] <crashanddie> Translation: We're not going to be spending any more money into it. It's Open Source. If you want something, build it. | 15:56 |
| crashanddie | [10:58:35] <crashanddie> Also, nice lapsus: I thought MeeGo was about an OS platform, not "devices". | 15:56 |
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| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, funny how it wasn't stated here as a smartphone: http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 | 15:56 |
| jonwil | where is this justification page? I cant find it on the wiki | 15:56 |
| lardman | alterego: thanks | 15:57 |
| lardman | crashanddie: yeah, agreed | 15:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: I'm not saying it wasn;'t - however, it was clearly mentioned as part of the smartphone strategy | 15:57 |
| lardman | jonwil: /me looks | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: In the talk beginning an hour ago | 15:57 |
| lardman | is this event on now? The one we all thought might announce a new Meego phone? | 15:58 |
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| jonwil | btw if anyone knows where to get the previously-available-but-not-available-anymore Symbian code, that would be great :) | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | At around 12:32 GMT specifically | 15:58 |
| psycho_oreos | SpeedEvil, I didn't bother watching/listening to the talk, am still absolutely gutted by elop's indelible decision on adding wp7 to its range of mobile/cell phone OS | 15:58 |
| marmoute | lardman: you mean the one where they announce they choosed Windows Portable 7 ? | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | psycho_oreos: yeah | 15:59 |
| javispedro | classic joke: http://i.imgur.com/dMX1f.png | 15:59 |
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| lardman | marmoute: I thought that was a press release rather than a talk? | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 15:59 |
| range | http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1502.html | 15:59 |
| lardman | jonwil: http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Licensing_change_requests and http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages | 16:00 |
| * jonwil has about 7 or so requests for headers/info that he wants for various things | 16:00 | |
| jonwil | 7 or so things I want | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | having used an iphone for a day now | 16:00 |
| lardman | I think they need to be added to bugzilla, see the link on that first wiki page | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | I can't see those 100000 apps | 16:00 |
| lardman | MohammadAG: jumped ship already then? ;) | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | most of them are duplicates :/ | 16:01 |
| lardman | search the market for "fart" | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, nah, it's my dad's | 16:01 |
| psycho_oreos | probably only available after jailbreaking *snickers* | 16:01 |
| lardman | that will give the 10k apps ;) | 16:01 |
| jonwil | I dont think adding to bugzilla will get anywhere | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, don't think I could jailbreak an iPhone 4 with the latest software | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, searched for "fart", it's still loading :P | 16:02 |
| jonwil | there are already about 50 bugs in bugzilla for things where info is wanted from Nokia and none of them are going anywhere | 16:02 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | first iPhone lock up | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | no apps start | 16:02 |
| lardman | jonwil: I know, but then when you approach someone about it you point to the bug | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: clearly shows Mr Elop has NFC | 16:03 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, ahh iphone 4 eh? heh that's going to be a bit of a tough nut to crack | 16:03 |
| lardman | you will need to talk to people, the bug won't do the job, but it is a central point of explanation, justification, etc | 16:03 |
| jonwil | ok, makes sense | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | when do we rebel against Elop? | 16:03 |
| jonwil | some of the items I want already point to bugzilla bugs | 16:04 |
| MohammadAG | i was a lot happier yesterday | 16:04 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: :( | 16:04 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: are you a stock holder? | 16:04 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, no, I just equally hate all other OSes | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: What do you have to do with Elop? | 16:05 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, Elop's reaction was about as stupid as the ones you see in theatres: They look at the greatest expenses (in theatres, that's human salaries and movies), and slash the ones they can: employees. The thing is, employees are the ones who sell you food, the part of the theatre that has the greatest profit margin on it. So instead of giving people the tools they need, for long-term improvement, they slash whatever | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | they see, for instant gratification. | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, he tied Nokia with Microsoft | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | I hate microsoft | 16:05 |
| lardman | jonwil: get people to vote for them, then go chasing Nokians | 16:05 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: So, why is it bad? | 16:05 |
| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, gutted is a good word for it. | 16:05 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: We get to see TEH DRAMA | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, know the feeling when you get something, and it's taken away from you? | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: ack | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Never got anything from Elop | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, we also don't get a usable mobile device any time in the near future. | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | Ari got nokia into Linux, Elop took that to Windows | 16:06 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h, that's not true | 16:06 |
| RST38h | GAN: Android + a set of files | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, you get windows on your next device | 16:06 |
| ArGGu^^ | Reason to love maemo is open source and Qt, I hope that there will be meego phone :S | 16:06 |
| psycho_oreos | GAN900, if only I lived in EU to witness that conference with a bottle of motolov cocktail handy... | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | android sucks | 16:06 |
| RST38h | GAN: (not the computer files too) | 16:06 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h, Maemo + MeeGo got a massive surprise buttseks from Elop. | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not learning Java | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, Android? | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | Fuck off. | 16:06 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, you can code C in android | 16:06 |
| javispedro | ok, let's panic. | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | Tried that with the Nexus One | 16:07 |
| RST38h | GAN: I am simply choosing from available alternatives | 16:07 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: it's in London, I could have got a train there in less than an hour :D | 16:07 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, yeah, let's | 16:07 |
| GAN900 | Wanted to put my eyes out. | 16:07 |
| javispedro | PANIC!!!!!! PANIC!!! I'm iN DENIAL! This CAN'T be TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 16:07 |
| RST38h | TEH ENDOF THE WORLD COMIN | 16:07 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, and the UI? | 16:07 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, also, Java is a very good thing on your CV | 16:07 |
| RST38h | RUN FOR TEH HILS!!!! | 16:07 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, I'm not fond of it :P | 16:07 |
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| GAN900 | Unfortunate thing is the blow mobile open source took today. | 16:07 |
| lardman | ah sod Android, just buy the device and port Meego to it | 16:07 |
| MohammadAG | I'd so get an iphone now | 16:07 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Nowadays, Java is not a good thing on your CV | 16:07 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG, chances are, you won't be fond of your job either, but you still need the money you whore. | 16:08 |
| MohammadAG | if it was open source | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZE | 16:08 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: C# is though ;) | 16:08 |
| GAN900 | Now we're really down to Android's evil. | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and BYE | 16:08 |
| lauri | Hello, can anyone tell me OpenDUNE key bindings? None of the keys seem to work! | 16:08 |
| javispedro | SACK EVERYTHING YOU CAN BEFORE IT DISAPPEARS! | 16:08 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, dude, Java on my CV got me a 120k a year job aged 24. | 16:08 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, I'd imagine carrying a bottle of motolov cocktail wouldn't fancy the bouncers at the front, though really maybe people should throw lemons at elop | 16:08 |
| * MohammadAG bitchslaps crashanddie | 16:08 | |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Now you are a legacy coder ;) | 16:08 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, no, now I code C++ :) | 16:08 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: Apples would be more interesting | 16:08 |
| RST38h | PILLAGE! KILL! HUMP THE GEESE! | 16:08 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: see? | 16:08 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 16:09 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, nah apples won't make elop any smarter | 16:09 |
| MohammadAG | I like the iPhone's BT stack | 16:09 |
| alterego | :) | 16:09 |
| kerio | hump the geese? | 16:09 |
| MohammadAG | you can pair other mobiles, you can only connect to headsets | 16:09 |
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| alterego | My only concern is Qt Mobility | 16:09 |
| alterego | And where that is heading. | 16:09 |
| MohammadAG | gotta love steve jobs | 16:09 |
| javispedro | Qt is dead. | 16:09 |
| alterego | javispedro: bullshit :P | 16:09 |
| javispedro | IT IS DEAD!!! | 16:09 |
| alterego | NO IT ISN'T | 16:10 |
| psycho_oreos | it isn't | 16:10 |
| alterego | Stop being a drama queen | 16:10 |
| lardman | what is the name of this conference thingy going on atm? | 16:10 |
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| alterego | lardman: divide and conquer | 16:10 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, Java demand rose 1.13% between Feb 2010 and Feb 2011. Meanwhile, over the same period, C lost 1.62%, C++ 1.26%, and PHP 3.03%. Only Python is the big winner: gaining 2.72%. | 16:10 |
| GAN900 | Global Markets something or other. | 16:10 |
| psycho_oreos | nokia luvs microsoft | 16:10 |
| MohammadAG | gtk is dead too javispedro :P | 16:10 |
| lardman | GAN900: thanks | 16:10 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: *more panic* | 16:10 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:10 |
| alterego | LOUD NOISES! | 16:11 |
| psycho_oreos | zomg.. and the death of some gnome projects | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fscking wish I had some 10k to invest in puts and calls today | 16:11 |
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| * psycho_oreos watches as they wither :p | 16:11 | |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, we're dead too | 16:11 |
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| rmrfchik | MohammadAG: java the language is learning you | 16:11 |
| MohammadAG | meh | 16:11 |
| MohammadAG | bored on Windows and iTunes | 16:11 |
| * MohammadAG reboots, throws iPhone | 16:11 | |
| psycho_oreos | we're already dead :) maemo doesn't exist in nokia's vocabulary anymore | 16:11 |
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| * E0x i see dead ppl ! | 16:12 | |
| MohammadAG | Nokia doesn't exist in everyone's vocabulary | 16:12 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: *clings to his pre* no, I'm not dead, I still have a few months left! | 16:12 |
| alterego | Look on the brightside, no more fscking Ovi Suite. | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, you're dead, face it! | 16:12 |
| * JockeTF loves Maemo 5. | 16:12 | |
| MohammadAG | you know | 16:12 |
| javispedro | alterego: actually, more Ovi Suite. | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | Look at the good side of things | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | as much as I used to rant about MeeGo | 16:12 |
| psycho_oreos | its a well deserved title for nokia to not be in everyone's vocabulary, after what elop did | 16:12 |
| alterego | javispedro: Microsoft Ovi Suite? | 16:12 |
| psycho_oreos | it was just epic | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | I think I'll start working on it | 16:13 |
| javispedro | alterego: they do not plan to kill the brand... | 16:13 |
| MohammadAG | no | 16:13 |
| javispedro | alterego: and their budget for services will be as this year. | 16:13 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia Zune | 16:13 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: :D | 16:13 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia Vista? | 16:13 |
| javispedro | so | 16:13 |
| psycho_oreos | nokia kin 3 | 16:13 |
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| alterego | Nokia Zuvi | 16:13 |
| javispedro | UNFORTUNATELY, Nokia switched to .NET instead of E17 as I used to say. | 16:13 |
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| javispedro | which toolkit they will use next year? | 16:13 |
| alterego | lets have some product differentiation please. | 16:13 |
| Khertan | http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/1135263739290 | 16:14 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, asm | 16:14 |
| psycho_oreos | kin 3 by nokia | 16:14 |
| kerio | lol :( | 16:14 |
| MohammadAG | Nicrosoftia? | 16:14 |
| psycho_oreos | macrohard | 16:14 |
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| erstazi | micronokia | 16:15 |
| javispedro | noksoft | 16:15 |
| MohammadAG | what's the status for NOK's stocks? | 16:15 |
| RST38h | micronok | 16:15 |
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| DrGrov | Well | 16:16 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: down | 16:16 |
| erstazi | Wall Garden levelness: WP7 > iOS > Symbian > WebOS > Android > Maemo/Meego | 16:16 |
| alterego | Monika | 16:16 |
| DrGrov | Good day all | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | meego >SHR | 16:16 |
| psycho_oreos | nokisoft | 16:16 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: going up ... | 16:16 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, duh, how much? :P | 16:16 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, you can't be serious | 16:16 |
| DrGrov | This is a fucking disgrace with Nokia | 16:16 |
| javispedro | DrGrov: PANIC, RUN!! | 16:16 |
| erstazi | there is SHR support for N900? surprising | 16:17 |
| RST38h | Mohammad -7% or so | 16:17 |
| DrGrov | I will sell my Nokia N8. Anyone interested? | 16:17 |
| * GAN900 takes away javispedro's coffee. | 16:17 | |
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| MohammadAG | the pic is lulz http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=942123&postcount=9 | 16:17 |
| psycho_oreos | eww n8 | 16:17 |
| Andy80 | I will sell my N900 and C7 and buy a Samsung Galaxy :P | 16:18 |
| DrGrov | I gotta rid of my fucking Nokia phones now since I will commit suicide otherwise | 16:18 |
| akikhaw | it's not going up, it's going further down. -11.52% atm on live chart | 16:18 |
| RST38h | akikhaw: no shit sherlock | 16:18 |
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| GAN900 | Well, good news is that I now know what career direction I'm NOT going to be pursuing. | 16:18 |
| psycho_oreos | won't be long before NOK reaches its newest low :) | 16:18 |
| LjL | is there some patch or something for MyTube or other YouTube playing programs that actually makes them work on OS2008 nowadays? | 16:19 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: Yes, I will panic and run the fuck away from Nokia LOL | 16:19 |
| DrGrov | Luckily I don't have any Nokia shares | 16:19 |
| javispedro | GAN900: a pity :( | 16:20 |
| DrGrov | WTF? | 16:20 |
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| DrGrov | Elop says in Finnish business news that "investers will understand the Microsoft connection eventually" | 16:20 |
| GAN900 | Well, now I can pursue my dream of becoming . . . a wedding photographer! *g* ;) | 16:20 |
| RST38h | GAN: Bad news is that a similar outcome may await you in just about any large corporation | 16:20 |
| trx | -11.03% | 16:21 |
| erstazi | GAN900: just become your own boss (via 1099) | 16:21 |
| trx | lol.. | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | what if people stopped getting married? | 16:21 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe we could all get a metal file and start shaving off the nokia logo off the n900, then proudly taking a photo of it and putting it on one tmo thread showing our love for nokia :) | 16:21 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, true enough. | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | I mean, most people live with gfs nowadays :P | 16:21 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: He will photograph pets | 16:21 |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG, them I'm well and truly fucked. | 16:21 |
| GAN900 | Perhaps I could become a PI. | 16:21 |
| trx | yeah, what if instead of getting married, they switch to WP7? | 16:21 |
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| MohammadAG | trx, I see what you did there | 16:22 |
| trx | :) | 16:22 |
| mikhas | GAN900, PI in times of facebook? | 16:22 |
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| mikhas | what could you find out that people wouldn't already post themselves? | 16:22 |
| jhb1 | maybe nokisoft is a good thing in the end: the r&d made the fantastic n900, and now that they have the go ahead for another experimental device, maybe they create a fantastic n9+ without the constraints of the mainstream company? | 16:22 |
| javispedro | lol | 16:23 |
| DrGrov | -11,40% | 16:23 |
| DrGrov | This is going to -20 aroundish stilll | 16:23 |
| javispedro | nokia.taleo.com is being emptied as we speak. | 16:23 |
| javispedro | *.net | 16:23 |
| GAN900 | mikhas, maybe provide Facebook searching services for old people? | 16:23 |
| mikhas | brilliant idea! | 16:24 |
| DrGrov | You guys like Elop's action or? | 16:24 |
| javispedro | I like it very mu... -- GRAB THE PITCHFORKS! GET HIM OUT OF OFFICE BEFORE HE DOES MORE DAMAGE! | 16:24 |
| erstazi | javispedro: what is that? | 16:24 |
| javispedro | erstazi: nokia job postings | 16:25 |
| lardman | jhb1: I was thinking the same, no need to go mainstream now ;) | 16:25 |
| erstazi | javispedro: ah | 16:25 |
| RST38h | javispedro: They started removing job postings? | 16:25 |
| psycho_oreos | frozen lemon bazooka anyone? time to aim that at elop | 16:25 |
| alterego | jhb1: actually I see that happening for the opposite reason. The next "NIT" will probably be a lot more like previous NITs in that they use components they use a lot in their other handsets to reduce costs. So hopefully we'll get the same shiny hardware that their new high end line will have. | 16:26 |
| Khertan | http://www.elop.org/ | 16:26 |
| lardman | alterego: though with those closed components again in that case | 16:26 |
| psycho_oreos | one can only hope but only time will tell | 16:26 |
| RST38h | Khertan: OMG | 16:26 |
| javispedro | RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=942235 | 16:27 |
| MohammadAG | what if Nokia employees do what Egypt did? | 16:27 |
| DrGrov | This is definitely the end for me with a Nokia, ever | 16:27 |
| FauxFaux | I'm glad that didn't load. | 16:27 |
| alterego | lardman: such is the price we will always suffer. They've never shown any indication of changing that and some of it has nothing to do with them. | 16:27 |
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| lardman | alterego: :nod: | 16:27 |
| trx | Khertan hahaha | 16:27 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: what if the country does? I'm sure some finns might not like this... | 16:27 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, what was that? closed areas off to the public access? :) | 16:27 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: I am a Finn actually | 16:27 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: I am seriously considering suicide atm | 16:28 |
| DrGrov | javispedro: And I am fucking pissed | 16:28 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Imagine what the guy will feel when he comes to the new work and finds out... | 16:28 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, err, no, rebel against Elop | 16:28 |
| alterego | DrGrov: :( lots of beers will be drunk in Tampere and Helsinki tonight I fear. | 16:28 |
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| alterego | DrGrov: on the bright side, lots of beers will be drunk in Helsinki and Tampere tonight! | 16:28 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, I so wish that would happen, in fact people should really start throwing shit at him | 16:28 |
| erstazi | -11,76% | 16:28 |
| alterego | DrGrov: also, consider banning Elop from your country, I hear he's in London at the moment :P | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: You do not rebel against your CEO | 16:29 |
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| nae | What do you think the chances are that we'll be able to load a different OS onto the Nokia/MS phone? | 16:29 |
| alterego | nae: no chance | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: You say "Aye aye, my dearest leader" and continue on the new course | 16:29 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Under assumption that he knows better | 16:29 |
| nae | alterego: why are you so convinced? | 16:29 |
| DrGrov | alterego: Elop should get the fuck out now. | 16:30 |
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| DrGrov | alterego: I will go with some Finlandia vodka myself. A lot more pain relieving than beer | 16:31 |
| alterego | nae: because if they can decide to completely screw the world and opt for WP7, what makes you think they'll make that line in the slightest open? | 16:31 |
| psycho_oreos | its possible to load another OS, the guys who did chevronWP7 (WP7 jailbreaker tool) were being given a free WP7 phone and were asked to join the ms team. However in turn they must no longer publish their tool online. Supposedly newer WP7 may have alternative OS capability through probably some `power' menu | 16:31 |
| javispedro | ha,ha. | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | doooown doooown doooooown | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | -12.5% | 16:31 |
| alterego | DrGrov: well, I hope we all survive, I have a couple of doomsday scenarios in my mind at the moment that were started by the announcement this morning. | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | -12.75% | 16:31 |
| javispedro | we are going DOOOOWN ... ♬ | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | -12.87% | 16:32 |
| DrGrov | alterego: I sure as hell hope that everyone that has Nokia shares got rid of them already before the shit hit the fan | 16:32 |
| alterego | psycho_oreos: they probably work in the cafateria :P | 16:32 |
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| alterego | DrGrov: they'll recover .. | 16:32 |
| RST38h | alterego: depends | 16:32 |
| psycho_oreos | alterego, *shrugs* I'm sure they wouldn't want to work there forever :) | 16:33 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Can you link to where you are following the NOK share? My Finnish business news are fucking slow on updates | 16:33 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, with 0 experience in a company, I know better | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.finanzen.net/realtimekurs/Nokia | 16:33 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Thanks, time to closely monitor the fall of Nokia | 16:33 |
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| MohammadAG | the only way he can fix this is if he says devices will dual boot MeeGo and WP7 | 16:34 |
| mikhas | also, http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOK&ql=0 | 16:34 |
| nae | alterego: all that makes me hope it will be open is just that, blind hope. I don't see what nokia has to gain from making it closed. | 16:34 |
| MohammadAG | and android | 16:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, but what? still retain that stupid windows button? | 16:34 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: ha-ha. For Microsoft, dual-boot means running two versions of Windows. | 16:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | and only ntfs/fat32 is supported | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, replace it with a small LCD button | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG | that changes to a home button on other OSs | 16:35 |
| GAN900 | Is it April 1st anywhere? Please? | 16:35 |
| DrGrov | I wonder what is my next phone then... Any good suggestions? :) | 16:36 |
| javispedro | GAN900: be happy, Nokia will continue to develop Meego on the alternate universe (</fringe quote>) | 16:36 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, if that also comes with the phone as standard then yeah that would probably also boost the sales of nokia devices | 16:36 |
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| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, that would rescue their stocks, sort of | 16:36 |
| zap_ | hello, windowserz | 16:36 |
| RST38h | javispedro: but it will be steam powered there | 16:36 |
| psycho_oreos | DrGrov, I'm looking at nexus S | 16:36 |
| RST38h | javispedro: and made of copper | 16:36 |
| DrGrov | My wife is fucking kill me with Aqua - Barbie Girl fucking shitt! | 16:36 |
| zap_ | any1 crazy left to develop for meego here? | 16:37 |
| DrGrov | She is happy I am suffering like a cancer patient.... | 16:37 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, as in if they do that in conjunction with allowing booting of meego/android | 16:37 |
| RST38h | DrGrov: Is it a good thing or a bad thing? | 16:37 |
| DrGrov | RST38h: That is a really bad thing. | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | I love that song, on mute | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | zap_, me | 16:37 |
| psycho_oreos | zap_, meego isn't founded solely by nokia alone | 16:37 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 16:37 |
| trx | they wont make dual boot we know it | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | alternatives aren't looking nice | 16:37 |
| javispedro | It is also funded by Intel, which might actually be more interested in Android for x86. | 16:38 |
| javispedro | neat, good looking future. | 16:38 |
| DrGrov | I think I will call Nokia and demand a fucking refund on my N8 since they have fucked up | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo isn't dead... | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG | yet | 16:38 |
| Per_n900 | We are talking about microsoft, there will be no dual boot possibilites. | 16:38 |
| psycho_oreos | or at least x86 for portable markets, continuing the push with atom/moorestown | 16:38 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Talk to raster. | 16:38 |
| javispedro | =) | 16:39 |
| * MohammadAG waits for that "Elop deletes meego.gitorious.org/*" headline | 16:39 | |
| xDaReaperx | aww i'm sure Nokia wouldn't give up that easy | 16:39 |
| xDaReaperx | on meego | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | This isn't Nokia | 16:40 |
| zap_ | they already did | 16:40 |
| zap_ | yep, it's MS Nokia | 16:40 |
| GAN900 | Nothing good ever came from Canada. | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | I wouldn't be surprised if the next device was called Nokia Elop | 16:40 |
| rmrfchik | xDaReaperx: they give up maemo alredy | 16:40 |
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| rmrfchik | xDaReaperx: and meego is intel's child. easy to drop | 16:40 |
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| RST38h | GAN: As I said before and was rebuffed, EVIl CANADIANS! =) | 16:41 |
| MohammadAG | s/drop/abort/ | 16:41 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Michael Moore agrees! :) | 16:41 |
| psycho_oreos | heh heralding the great historian who literally melded microsoft and nokia hands together. Powered by WP7 | 16:41 |
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| MohammadAG | I wonder if the Nokia logo is Elop and Steve ballmer shaking hands | 16:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | elop with the smaller hand | 16:42 |
| * javispedro mentally plays nokia tune ♬ ♪ | 16:42 | |
| Khertan | hum ... and they will fire people ... | 16:42 |
| DrGrov | I am sure the next new MS Nokia logo will be a happy fucking smile from Elop with a caring hand of Ballmer on his head. Like a fucking retard being caressed | 16:43 |
| psycho_oreos | might even be ballmer's right hand man too, ballmer will be greeting him saying `good job soldier!, now time for us to get rid of the fins!' | 16:43 |
| * Khertan is listening Freedom - Rage Against The Machine ♬ ♪ | 16:43 | |
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| Per_n900 | Elop is all microsoft, he only has their interest at heart. Is it just me that thinks microsoft planned this all along? This is why elop is at nokia at all? | 16:43 |
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| DrGrov | Per_n900: I knew that Elop had planned this fucking shit all along | 16:43 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: You remember when I told you yesterday about that there is a corpse buried when Elop left MS for Nokia? | 16:44 |
| Khertan | DrGrov: i think elop was put here by something else which plan the thing | 16:44 |
| Per_n900 | DrGrov: I do, and I completely agree with you! | 16:44 |
| MohammadAG | Elop used to work at MS? | 16:44 |
| Khertan | MohammadAG: yes | 16:44 |
| DrGrov | Khertan: Well yes, Elop got himself put there by someone. Perhaps not Ballmer but someone else. | 16:44 |
| Per_n900 | MohammadAG: as far as I know YES | 16:44 |
| DrGrov | Per_n900: I agree with you too! :) | 16:44 |
| MohammadAG | And they gladly hired the asshole? | 16:45 |
| DrGrov | Elop has been in charge of Microsoft Office stuff at Microsoft before he got the CEO position at Nokia | 16:45 |
| * MohammadAG cries | 16:45 | |
| xDaReaperx | lol | 16:45 |
| xDaReaperx | Nokia got stolen | 16:45 |
| ptl | two years and a half ago he was president of the business division of microsoft and signed an older deal with nokia | 16:45 |
| doc|home | last I checked, Office was one of the few useful things microsoft is doing... | 16:45 |
| Per_n900 | Microsoft kind of got him in. Nokia was doing bad things and microsoft could not have that. If you know your history, microsoft has done things like this many times before. | 16:46 |
| doc|home | Per_n900: how and why would they do that? | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG | so this was a conspiracy? | 16:46 |
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| Khertan | MohammadAG: maybe ... maybe not | 16:46 |
| DrGrov | I am 100% sure this was a conspiracyt | 16:47 |
| Per_n900 | MohammadAG: I dont know, but I would sure think so. | 16:47 |
| javispedro | a conspiracy to fsck you all? | 16:47 |
| ptl | No, not this OS deal, but in August 2009 ”The worldwide leader in software and the world’s largest smartphone manufacturer have entered into an alliance that is set to deliver a groundbreaking, enterprise-grade solution for mobile productivity. Today, Microsoft Business Division President Stephen Elop and Nokia’s Executive Vice President for Devices Kai Öistämö announced the agreement, outlining a | 16:47 |
| ptl | The plan was to bring “Microsoft Office Mobile and Microsoft business communications, collaboration and device management software to Nokia’s Symbian devices.” | 16:47 |
| DrGrov | Yes, a conspiracy to fuck us royally | 16:47 |
| ptl | What happened? Two and a half years later the same Stephen Elop announced that Symbian will be deprecated. | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | dooooooooown! I'll buy at 7.00 | 16:47 |
| ptl | source: http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ | 16:47 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I don't think it's getting that low. | 16:48 |
| DrGrov | NOK is surely getting under 7.00 | 16:48 |
| DrGrov | It will drop down to 5 something still | 16:48 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, chances are stock prices will be divided by 0 | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ASK 7.06 | 16:49 |
| Per_n900 | Microsofts only way to compete when the products the produce sucks, is to use foul play. Study the history of microsoft and you will see. | 16:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | there's a good docu-drama for that, its called pirates of the silicon valley :) | 16:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, I buy at 7.01 | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 16:49 |
| psycho_oreos | why bother | 16:50 |
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| psycho_oreos | you're going to lose money either way | 16:50 |
| alterego | You know, the more I try to digest this the more I'm thinking "wtf" ... | 16:50 |
| Khertan | -13,20% | 16:51 |
| Khertan | 7.10 | 16:51 |
| alterego | I'm trying to see this from a corporate standpoint. | 16:51 |
| GAN900 | alterego, idiocy. | 16:51 |
| Khertan | DocScrutinizer still going down | 16:51 |
| alterego | And even that makes me puzzled. | 16:51 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, more proof the company is being run by blind dinosaurs. | 16:51 |
| javispedro | alterego: yeah, I can find virtually no justification. | 16:51 |
| javispedro | why gates? just why? | 16:51 |
| alterego | This is such a huge move, and it just doesn't make sense. | 16:51 |
| Khertan | GAN900: i didn't think it s dinosaurs ... but i more thinking of some hobbying ... | 16:52 |
| alterego | Except the obvious CEO being an MS mole. | 16:52 |
| javispedro | it's like they just ignored the entire market, suddenly decided MS was #3 in market share and merged with them. | 16:52 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, they're asking to get bankrupt | 16:52 |
| javispedro | reminds me of one Dilbert episode... | 16:52 |
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| alterego | I know he's the CEO, but seriously, did no one think "Wait a minute, this isn't a good idea." | 16:53 |
| alterego | The amount of trust they've lost and will lose .. | 16:53 |
| GAN900 | Apparently the board didn't. | 16:53 |
| GAN900 | Thus, dinosaurs. | 16:53 |
| Khertan | alterego: they surely said ... it s bad idea ... but i didn't care, ms give me enough money on a suiss account ... | 16:54 |
| alterego | Brand loyalty, stability and rock hard platforms is why Nokia are great. | 16:54 |
| javispedro | I think I just saw an BrainSuck Industries (A dogbert company) OVNI | 16:54 |
| Khertan | javispedro: and innovation ... | 16:54 |
| RST38h | alterego: I am sure they have got a PPT presentation that shows how perfect and idea it is | 16:54 |
| javispedro | s/OVNI/UFO =) | 16:54 |
| RST38h | alterego: Words "synergy" and "paradigm" are almost surely used | 16:54 |
| alterego | This just seems like someone has rotated one of those game show boards and gone with it. | 16:54 |
| Khertan | javispedro: Object Volant Non Identifié ? | 16:55 |
| nae | the reg article says there's no mention of exclusivity, so why do we assume that nokia will screw the dev community even more by not letting them put another OS on the phone. Back when big OEM pc makers were making deals with MS, MS didn't have them stop people loading other OSs onto the hardware | 16:55 |
| alterego | Or the guy at the wheel of the ship thought "fuck it" and just span it round randomly. | 16:55 |
| javispedro | Khertan: yeah =) | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, some fonds have a limit at 7.08 (-1.0 from day before) | 16:55 |
| Khertan | javispedro: french ? | 16:55 |
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| DrGrov | Is there any way to watch that whole press conference when Elop fucks Nokia? | 16:55 |
| javispedro | Khertan: actually no, it's the same acronym in spanish | 16:55 |
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| alterego | DrGrov: I'm sure there will be, I'll probably look tomorrow. | 16:56 |
| Khertan | javispedro: actually no .. did you plan it ? or reborn in a next life in france ? | 16:56 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:56 |
| javispedro | Khertan: believe me it is :) | 16:56 |
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| alterego | I just feel really sad for all the Nokians, they've just been continually f'd. | 16:57 |
| javispedro | it's just the stress of the PANIC! | 16:57 |
| Per_n900 | Is there something we all can do about this? | 16:57 |
| javispedro | Per_n900: killing spree!! | 16:57 |
| Khertan | alterego: did they said how people they will fire ? | 16:57 |
| alterego | Per_n900: watch and wait. | 16:57 |
| jhb1 | alterego: well, it might be outdated hardware by the time it sees the magical device. But then there is the option that in 6 months time its "we scrapped it, because Ballmer told us to'. I am just glad that they only lost it after making the n900 | 16:57 |
| alterego | Khertan: no, but I imagine it will be substantial. | 16:57 |
| GAN900 | alterego, seriously. Thoughts go out to Nokians and their families affected by this tragedy. | 16:57 |
| alterego | GAN900: indeed :/ | 16:58 |
| alterego | Even qgil seems to be like "wtf, computing ... computing ... computing ... BSOD!!!" | 16:58 |
| Khertan | alterego: i read in a finnish news that around 1000 people go out and walk in the street to manifest again this decision | 16:58 |
| DrGrov | For the whole of Finland as a country this is really a death blow | 16:58 |
| alterego | Khertan: wow | 16:58 |
| alterego | DrGrov: I know, it's devistating really. | 16:59 |
| GAN900 | Look on the bright side, if MeeGo Devices is going back in the closet, we might see a 770 Mark II in 2014! | 16:59 |
| javispedro | GAN900: good point! | 16:59 |
| javispedro | let's go back to what made Maemo fun. | 16:59 |
| DrGrov | alterego: I thought that Nokia would finally learn a lesson but no, get a real fuck up to run the company. | 16:59 |
| DrGrov | I will go now and buy a new phone | 17:00 |
| DrGrov | Any suggestions? A easy phone without any Nokia shit? | 17:00 |
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| DrGrov | I put away a few hundred euros just in case this fucking thing happened yesterday | 17:00 |
| DrGrov | So, a new easy phone without any connection to Nokia? | 17:00 |
| DrGrov | Shoot guys | 17:00 |
| alterego | DrGrov: blackberry? | 17:00 |
| alterego | DrGrov: just don't go to India! | 17:01 |
| Khertan | DrGrov: the samsung 3210 http://gadgetsmedia.vamban.com/2011/02/Samsung-Metro-3210-Mobile-Phone-With-3G-HSDPA-Connectivity-Price-in-India-Reviews-Technical-Specifications-Photos.jpg | 17:01 |
| DrGrov | alterego: There is no Blackberrys here :( | 17:01 |
| * MohammadAG pukes | 17:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer | c'mom ASK 7.04 | 17:01 |
| Per_n900 | In all honesty, I think this just may go down in history as the most stupid decision ever made. Sigh. | 17:01 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:01 |
| DrGrov | Khertan: Not a samsung :( | 17:01 |
| DrGrov | How about a LG? | 17:01 |
| alterego | No offence to those it may inadvertantly effect but. Fuck you American Corporatism! | 17:01 |
| DrGrov | alterego: AGREED! :) | 17:02 |
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| alterego | DrGrov: not sure the build quality is that great with LGs | 17:02 |
| Khertan | alterego: ok the traduciton wasn't good ... it s hundred ... not thousand ... | 17:02 |
| alterego | So, what does Europe seriosuly have now? :D | 17:02 |
| Khertan | alterego: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Yli%2Btuhat%2Bnokialaista%2Bmarssi%2Bty%25C3%25B6paikaltaan/1135263739290&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1 | 17:02 |
| Khertan | alterego: alcatel ... | 17:03 |
| Khertan | Mouahahahahah | 17:03 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | seve dot oh one BUUUUUUYYYY!!! | 17:03 |
| DrGrov | alterego: The TV I have from LG has good build quality. Not sure though as you say about phones | 17:03 |
| MohammadAG | Nexus S? | 17:03 |
| javispedro | alterego: I saw the news of this on local TV today and that was their point. They were putting a heavy anti-americanism spin on the it. | 17:03 |
| alterego | DrGrov: tbh, I'm running on old info, the fact is, even now, nothing beats a Nokia imo :( | 17:03 |
| DrGrov | Never Google | 17:03 |
| psycho_oreos | hahaha it was worse enough that the boards of Nokia had to sack that outgoing CEO, its even worse that the boards elected someone whose backgrounds were with microsoft whom now took a shot a stabbing their back | 17:04 |
| psycho_oreos | what irony | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | iPhone? :P | 17:04 |
| javispedro | alterego: "what does europe have in comms right now: nothing" | 17:04 |
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| DrGrov | Fuck no, no iPhone | 17:04 |
| javispedro | alterego: that's why they mentioned they had asked the EU commision | 17:04 |
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| alterego | javispedro: :/ | 17:04 |
| javispedro | (being a spanish network they mentioned telefonica as another european asset in comms, but I say HA) | 17:04 |
| Khertan | (16:04:25) javispedro: alterego: "what does europe have in comms right now: nothing" <<< alcatel and thales | 17:04 |
| doc|home | <alterego> No offence to those it may inadvertantly effect but. Fuck you American Corporatism! | 17:04 |
| DrGrov | alterego: So you think I should stay with the N8 even though we got royally fucked in kiesher? | 17:04 |
| Khertan | thales do the satellites :) | 17:05 |
| alterego | The EU are too worried about Egypt at the moment. :D | 17:05 |
| doc|home | alterego: that's kinda irrelevant | 17:05 |
| Khertan | alterego: also | 17:05 |
| alterego | DrGrov: yes, give it time, the N8 is a beautiful device. | 17:05 |
| DrGrov | alterego: Can I hold you personally responsible for that quote that the "N8 is a beautiful device" ? :) | 17:05 |
| LjL | when programs on my OS2008 say "resuming", what does that mean? have they been hybernated somehow? and if so, why don't they do that instead of saying "out of memory" when i'm out of memory? | 17:05 |
| psycho_oreos | polished turd ;) | 17:05 |
| alterego | DrGrov: at least it isn't running Windows Phone! :D | 17:06 |
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| DrGrov | alterego: Ah yes, the N8 is still running Symbian | 17:06 |
| alterego | LjL: they do if they're coded right :P | 17:06 |
| LjL | ah | 17:06 |
| Khertan | LjL: did you prefer ... i out of memory... crash you loose informations ? | 17:06 |
| psycho_oreos | which isn't the one that's going to axed big time | 17:06 |
| DrGrov | I gotta get some shopping done, a lot of vodka and food to last for the weekend. | 17:06 |
| LjL | Khertan: who mentioned crashes? | 17:06 |
| DrGrov | Be back a bit later though | 17:06 |
| Per_n900 | Is there any chance meego will run on the n8? | 17:06 |
| alterego | Exactly what I said earlier. Suddenly Symbian doesn't seem so bad! | 17:06 |
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| Khertan | :) this is the other way ... do not managing that you are out of memory ... | 17:07 |
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| javispedro | hey, I hate WinMo. But Symbian is STILL crap. | 17:07 |
| Khertan | javispedro: .... both are crap | 17:07 |
| javispedro | I'm not that desesperate yet ;) | 17:07 |
| Khertan | but at least ... symbian have QT ! | 17:07 |
| jonwil | ok, thats got those bugs filed | 17:08 |
| javispedro | you know what will happen when they point out they can now use MS VS to develop. | 17:08 |
| GAN900 | Gonna be a loooong weekend. | 17:08 |
| * javispedro can't wait for mwc | 17:08 | |
| jonwil | I didnt ask for source for stuff, I only asked for header files (figuring that header files are a lot more likely to happen) | 17:08 |
| javispedro | thank god, I didn't register to the Nokia QT dev event =) | 17:09 |
| jonwil | I have one existing bug plus 4 new bugs I just filed | 17:09 |
| Khertan | 7,08 € -13,45% | 17:09 |
| jonwil | existing bug is for cell broadcast stuff | 17:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 7.02... | 17:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 7.01 BUUUUYY! | 17:10 |
| yacc | Ah, Nokia decided to go for the Seppuku option ;) | 17:10 |
| jonwil | new bugs are for cellmodem headers (including GPS and stuff) plus libisi headers, libbmeipc headers, connectivity UI library headers and ICD policy plugin stuff | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, 7.00 | 17:10 |
| javispedro | jonwil: everything is dead just close shop like everyone else and panic! | 17:10 |
| javispedro | jonwil: (joking) good work! | 17:10 |
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| jonwil | now I just need to figure out who to ping with these bugs (and what to say) | 17:11 |
| Khertan | http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ | 17:11 |
| * alterego imagines Nokia scrapping Qt Dev days and giving out MSDN licenses to those that are eager and keen to get butt raped. | 17:11 | |
| Khertan | It s a fucking bad Day ... nokia switching to WP7 ... Lopsi 2 adopted by french gouv (restrain net neutrality, and liberties) ... | 17:12 |
| javispedro | riot! | 17:12 |
| crashanddie | hahaha | 17:12 |
| jonwil | Personally I think that if Microsoft wants Windows phone 7 to succeed, they need to scrap the need to pay a development fee to develop for the platform (still have a fee if you want to actually submit apps to the marketplace though) | 17:12 |
| Khertan | javispedro: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Yli%2Btuhat%2Bnokialaista%2Bmarssi%2Bty%25C3%25B6paikaltaan/1135263739290&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1 | 17:12 |
| jonwil | And they should also release "Visual Studio Express for Windows Phone 7" | 17:13 |
| Khertan | for free | 17:13 |
| jonwil | which would be like the current Visual Studio Express editions but specifically targeting WP7 | 17:13 |
| jonwil | yes for free | 17:13 |
| Khertan | jonwil: and provide Qt | 17:13 |
| jonwil | MS arent going to provide QT or native code at all | 17:13 |
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| Khertan | so it s a fail | 17:13 |
| jonwil | unless someone wants to port Qt to 100% .net code and create Qt# or something, I cant see it happening | 17:14 |
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| javispedro | however. | 17:14 |
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| javispedro | MS VS is more known than Qt. | 17:14 |
| javispedro | From a brand PoV. | 17:14 |
| jonwil | but yeah releasing the tools for free and letting people dev on real hardware for free will really boost WP7 adoption | 17:14 |
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| Khertan | jonwil: we can't do c on WP7 ? | 17:14 |
| trx | who cares about microsoft | 17:14 |
| jonwil | nope, only .net | 17:14 |
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| trx | you can develop qt apps for win | 17:14 |
| jonwil | WP7 is .net only | 17:14 |
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| trx | you just need .dlls | 17:15 |
| javispedro | omg god is dead. | 17:15 |
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| trx | :) | 17:15 |
| javispedro | hello trx, we're alone =) | 17:15 |
| trx | as i was saying, you just need qt dlls | 17:15 |
| trx | and there are no problems :) | 17:15 |
| javispedro | trx: we've been split | 17:15 |
| javispedro | noone's listening =) | 17:15 |
| javispedro | and not being logged either. | 17:16 |
| trx | yeah, you are listening :) | 17:16 |
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| javispedro | ah, silence. | 17:16 |
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| jonwil | ok, so having filed these bugs, who is the best person to ping about them? stskeeps? council? tekojo? someone else? | 17:17 |
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| javispedro | gentlemen. | 17:18 |
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| javispedro | we've just travelled into the alternate universe's freenode!! | 17:18 |
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| trx | yeah :) | 17:19 |
| javispedro | where the microsoft-nokia merger did not happen | 17:19 |
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| javispedro | and thus everyone is asleep | 17:19 |
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| trx | thats a nice universe :) | 17:19 |
| GAN900 | Oh thank god. | 17:19 |
| javispedro | however, Maemo was based on NetBSD instead of Linux :( | 17:20 |
| trx | :/ | 17:20 |
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| javispedro | get ready to go back to the normal universe =) | 17:22 |
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| * DocScrutinizer opens the champagne for the welcome drinks | 17:22 | |
| javispedro | back into the normal universe! =) | 17:22 |
| jonwil | ok, so having filed these bugs, who is the best person to ping about them? stskeeps? council? tekojo? someone else? | 17:22 |
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| * DocScrutinizer hands javispedro a glass of champagne. "welcome!" | 17:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer | council, stskeeps, tekojo | 17:23 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-11.log.html#t2011-02-11T17:18:36 ;) | 17:23 |
| jonwil | how do I contact council then? | 17:23 |
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| javispedro | jonwil: put into -community list | 17:24 |
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| jonwil | and say what exactly? | 17:24 |
| * javispedro 's going back to work now | 17:24 | |
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| javispedro | jonwil: propose your plan.... | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | time for 12648430 ☕ | 17:25 |
| * jonwil wouldn't know what to say in such a formal proposal | 17:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer | this doesn't have to be formal. even rant allowed ;-) | 17:26 |
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| jonwil | ok | 17:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though your chances are better without rant, and a clear crisp description of problem and planned action to tackle it, needed support etc | 17:27 |
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| jonwil | should I send one mail for all my different things or multiple mails? | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | one mail per topic | 17:30 |
| jonwil | ok | 17:30 |
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| jonwil | will send the mail tommorow, its too late in the evening for me to be sending important mails such as these | 17:30 |
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| jonwil | too tired | 17:30 |
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| jonwil | cya later guys | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cya | 17:33 |
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| Guest20599 | How is the N900's battery life? | 17:47 |
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| Guest20599 | I could get one for free but I'm a bit worried because I'm used to my Nokia 1208 with 1-2 weeks of stand-by battery life. | 17:48 |
| Khertan | Guest20599: Depends on your use and network coverage | 17:48 |
| Khertan | Guest20599: it could be 2 hour to 8 days | 17:49 |
| melmoth | i dont usually dont use network, and recharge it every days. | 17:49 |
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| Guest20599 | I see. | 17:50 |
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| Guest20599 | Well, I suppose I could give it a shot. | 17:51 |
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| orospakr | well, folks, sad news today. | 17:54 |
| kkal | orospakr: lol. | 17:55 |
| kkal | not actually. it IS a sad day, just the fact that quite a few individuals have showed up to express condolances is depressing and funny | 17:56 |
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| orospakr | "Over a thousand Nokia employees walk out in protest in Tampere, Finland." | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh! :-D | 18:00 |
| orospakr | I've been dreading the announcement all week. | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | fo reel? | 18:00 |
| orospakr | from twitter. so who knows? | 18:00 |
| Robot101 | orospakr: I'd guess those guys work on Symbian... | 18:00 |
| trx | they should make a riot and take over | 18:00 |
| orospakr | Robot101, yeah, I suspect as much. | 18:00 |
| trx | whatever they are doing | 18:00 |
| trx | anything is better than this.. | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: could you help with ISI .h ? | 18:01 |
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| kkal | symbian is open source, what are the chances of it living as a fork? | 18:01 |
| Robot101 | absolutely none | 18:01 |
| Robot101 | Nokia already shitcanned the Symbian Foundation and took the source offline | 18:01 |
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| Robot101 | nobody cared to contribute anything, at all | 18:01 |
| kkal | oh :( | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: we got the public wirelessmobileapi specs for ISI, but they are not correct for BB5 RAPUYAMA N900 cmt | 18:02 |
| Khertan | 6,94 € -15,16% | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 18:03 |
| Khertan | DocScrutinizer: buy tim | 18:03 |
| Khertan | e | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Khertan: I spent all my virtual money when ASK 7.01 | 18:04 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: I don't know anything about this... check ofono source code is the only idea I have | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, the question is where from ofono got their specs. Parts of ISI aren't dealt with in ofono, e.g GPS | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the specs in wirelessmobileapi are not correct for GPS | 18:05 |
| Khertan | DocScrutinizer : Nokia is the worst performance of the day | 18:05 |
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| Khertan | on the market | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan: you bet it is | 18:05 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: the ISI code in ofono is all from Nokians | 18:05 |
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| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: so they got their specs inside somewhere :) | 18:05 |
| Khertan | and alcatel-lucent go up ... (i didn't know if they still made mobile phone) | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: :nod: so whom to prod to get those ""leaked"" | 18:06 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: people on #ofono? you could always go ask if anyone knows how $foo works | 18:06 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: but they might be busy/distracted/drinking today | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL, of course | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: thanks a lot | 18:07 |
| Khertan | lol alcatel made Android Phone today ... | 18:07 |
| Khertan | (alcatel is a french phone maker) | 18:08 |
| crashanddie | "Nokia said today it has named Chris Weber as President of Nokia (US), and head of Markets, North America. He spent 16 years at Microsoft in a number of senior executive roles, including sales, marketing and professional services. " | 18:09 |
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| Khertan | crashanddie: lobbying .... | 18:09 |
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| Per_n900 | its a takeover. It was planned. | 18:10 |
| trx | MS staff is taking over.. | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | byebye Mubarak | 18:10 |
| Khertan | action go down | 18:10 |
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| trx | -15 for now | 18:10 |
| Khertan | and ms will be able to bough it at interesting price | 18:10 |
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| Khertan | 6,89 € -15,77% | 18:10 |
| trx | if it continues to fall like this | 18:11 |
| trx | i will be able buy nokia | 18:11 |
| trx | :) | 18:11 |
| NIN101 | and make everything open source | 18:11 |
| NIN101 | :-) | 18:11 |
| crashanddie | Erhm... Khertan, Nokia still has a MC of what, $35B? | 18:11 |
| trx | i wouldnt even think about it, just press the "go open source" button | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan: WTF?, 6.96 ASK here | 18:11 |
| Khertan | ouch ... someone didn't explain they that they should jump far ... else they will bloat them on the Pillar of the burning plateform ? | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | it would have to drop *drastically* before MSFT can buy them | 18:12 |
| Khertan | DocScrutinizer: it s moving fast | 18:12 |
| trx | DocScrutinizer Nokia Oyj6.92-1.24 | 18:12 |
| trx | -15.20% | 18:12 |
| ruskie | already 15% drop??? | 18:12 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/ <-- hmm | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | Khertan & trx NYSE? | 18:12 |
| Khertan | 6,93 € -15,28% now :) | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | ruskie: look at the graph - it's not that much down since last month | 18:12 |
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| crashanddie | Khertan & ruskie: if you're looking at the NYSE, please fix your browser and look at the shares in $ | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Khertan: seems you're watching another stock exchange | 18:13 |
| trx | http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/aktier/shareinformation?Instrument=HEX24311 | 18:13 |
| Per_n900 | Having a CEO completely loyal to microsoft is a takeover. The rest is just formalities, you will see. | 18:13 |
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| ruskie | crashanddie, http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOA3.DE might not be even watching the right... but seems to be right for me... | 18:14 |
| Khertan | crashanddie: it s an european company ... so € | 18:14 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:14 |
| trx | eur, yes | 18:14 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, that has nothing to do with it, LOL | 18:15 |
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| crashanddie | I could have a small company in Switzerland and be publicly traded in YEN | 18:15 |
| Khertan | i know ... just joking | 18:15 |
| Khertan | crashanddie: did you know i work 2.5 year to do software that make performance report ? :) | 18:15 |
| crashanddie | I did not | 18:15 |
| crashanddie | You fancy getting a python dev job in Paris? | 18:16 |
| ruskie | also why would I want to see it in $ ? | 18:16 |
| ruskie | considering I'm in europe and use euros everyday? | 18:16 |
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| crashanddie | Well, Nokia Corp is down 13.6% | 18:16 |
| crashanddie | and is traded in USD | 18:17 |
| Khertan | crashanddie: a position was just cancelled (for c++/qt for symbian / meego) three hour ago, and i m waiting answer from one | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | we're going to need someone who can use Robot Framework and to develop our public high-level API | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | well, I don't know if I have the budget to "need someone", but I can always have a word with HR if you want | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | BID 6.94 ASK 7.01 | 18:18 |
| Chiku | so more open OS for mobile ? | 18:18 |
| Corsac | http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5d&s=MSFT&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=NOK | 18:18 |
| Sc0rpius | down 13.6%? that must be because the announcement of Windows Mobile phone | 18:18 |
| Sc0rpius | phones | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG | Well, Egypt was successful, the guy left | 18:18 |
| Sc0rpius | good for them | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-11 17:10:19] <DocScrutinizer> byebye Mubarak | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG | Time to start planning the same for Elop | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest lynching him before he vanishes with 70 billion, like Mubarak did | 18:19 |
| lolloo | alllllllah akbaaaaaaar | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably too late though, the contract with M$ is already signed | 18:20 |
| lolloo | hehe | 18:20 |
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| crashanddie | contracts can be broken | 18:21 |
| SpeedEvil | We could make them change their minds! Just buy more of the meego device than all the other windows devices! | 18:21 |
| crashanddie | basically, Nokia should go back into startup mode | 18:21 |
| Per_n900 | I think nokia has alot more that would be of interest to MS, QT for example. | 18:21 |
| crashanddie | well, not Nokia -- the people responsible for Maemo / MeeGo. | 18:21 |
| crashanddie | Get Ari Jaaski back, Quim and timeless in a dusty office. | 18:21 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Fundamental problem is you need several millions in VC to do a prototype phone. | 18:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd contribute a few hundred tops - but... | 18:23 |
| ruskie | I'm guessing M$ is getting access to the nice fat patent portfolio as well... | 18:23 |
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| ruskie | well I guess it helps that they'll keep the S40 investments going... | 18:29 |
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| Khertan | crashanddie: why not ... where is it located, what the purpose of the project ? | 18:31 |
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| * ZogG xmms2> Rage Against The Machine - Killing In The Name Of [2009] | 18:32 | |
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| MohammadAG | I still think Mer v2 should be done | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | then a prototype community device | 18:34 |
| Per_n900 | MohammadAG, that is not a bad idea. | 18:34 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, talked to DocScrutinizer , not a good idea =( | 18:35 |
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| MohammadAG | switching to WP7 wasn't a good idea either | 18:35 |
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| Sc0rpius | http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/ | 18:35 |
| ZogG | though if there are people to organize anything and preorder money it can work | 18:35 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG, what mer v2 are you talking about btw? | 18:36 |
| vi_ | nooooooo | 18:36 |
| vi_ | wp7 | 18:36 |
| vi_ | :( | 18:36 |
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| vi_ | i am going to sick in my own mouth | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | "MeeGo" in the front of the bus :-D | 18:36 |
| Sc0rpius | what? | 18:36 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG, writing maemo bits as foss bit by bit | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not talking about bme and the likes | 18:37 |
| BluesLee | interesting day | 18:37 |
| Sc0rpius | Nokia will be so screwed | 18:38 |
| Sc0rpius | with Windows | 18:38 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG it would stay maemo | 18:38 |
| ZogG | maemo6 | 18:38 |
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| BluesLee | honestly we shouldt care ... always look on the bright side of life ... | 18:39 |
| BluesLee | now all :-) | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>...3000 people working at Nokia’s Tampere facility (which will be closed down)...<< WTF?! | 18:39 |
| ruskie | seriously? | 18:39 |
| Sc0rpius | well everybody working at Symbian will be laid off eventually | 18:40 |
| Khertan | DocScrutinizer: 600 are megoon | 18:40 |
| Kaadlajk | DocScrutinizer: that is a translation error | 18:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | omm k | 18:40 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, a better maemo | 18:40 |
| Kaadlajk | DocScrutinizer: original finnish article does not say anything about closing down | 18:40 |
| BluesLee | i thought 1000? | 18:40 |
| Khertan | Bye .... | 18:40 |
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| Khertan | Just say about hundred person in the street at 14h00 | 18:41 |
| Khertan | bye | 18:41 |
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| ZogG | BluesLee, totally right, oh wait... where is bright side in it exactly? | 18:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: actually I sympathize with that idea (mer'ed maemo5) | 18:43 |
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| BluesLee | ZogG: i expected such a deal so i am not suprised at all, things change ... if not meego that webos or whatever ... | 18:44 |
| Sc0rpius | now all QT would disappear as well | 18:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though, farnkly, Nokia shall move their lazy stinky arse and open up the sources, as maemo isn't on their sales list anymore | 18:44 |
| ZogG | Sc0rpius Qt | 18:44 |
| Sc0rpius | Qt | 18:45 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, and sent us batteries | 18:45 |
| ZogG | lilon | 18:45 |
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| ZogG | i have an idea | 18:46 |
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| ZogG | we sent DocScrutinizer to Nokia, he got CEO job, than he go to Ms and got CEO there and than he announce bankrupt | 18:47 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer: somebody has to pay the lawyers for opening sources :-/ | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | at OM we had NDAs with some hw suppliers, and we carefully checked when those NDAs expired and immediately published stuff as soon as they did | 18:47 |
| Gh0sty | nokia going into sea with microsoft ... :P | 18:47 |
| Gh0sty | thats a bad joke :) | 18:47 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, if things like this are done, we'll be done quick https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11913 | 18:47 |
| povbot | Bug 11913: cloned notification light applet with proper portrait mode dialog | 18:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: need of lawyers to open docs of any kind is *largely* overestimated | 18:48 |
| RST38bis | well. moo. | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | Sc0rpius, doubtful | 18:48 |
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| Sc0rpius | we'll see | 18:49 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer: generalization of complex processes is largely overpopular ;-) | 18:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe, yeah. Though I've done that process | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I'm not pulling this outa my arse | 18:50 |
| ruskie | wouldn't lawyering only be needed with those bits that might be somehow related to something from some patent or other? | 18:52 |
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| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, I remember times when I was in HEL when every second answer to my questions was "That involves lawyers". I don't think that laws changed in the meantime... | 18:52 |
| Choom | how's the news about the switch to windows phone being digested around here? | 18:52 |
| ruskie | Choom, can you guess? | 18:52 |
| andre__ | Choom: My coffee still tastes good ;-) | 18:52 |
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| Choom | is it possible that the N900 will end up being both the first and last linux phone from nokia? | 18:52 |
| ruskie | Choom, they did say they'll have one meego device | 18:53 |
| merlin1991 | "device" | 18:53 |
| RST38bis | yes it is possible, says the 8-ball | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme put it that way: if 'somebody' would take a 64GB usb stick, copy the sources et al, clean it to s/Nokia/NNNN/, and upload it to rapidshare or wikileaks or whatever, I bet absolutely nothing bad would happen to Nokia Inc. | 18:53 |
| RST38bis | Doc: funny way to state things | 18:54 |
| RST38bis | Doc: I mean what MORE can happen to Nokia INc.? | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...than what happened today. Actually nuttin | 18:55 |
| Choom | ruskie: isn't meego essentially dead too? | 18:55 |
| Sc0rpius | well next step is filing for bankrupcy and the total disappear of the company | 18:55 |
| ruskie | Choom, only if nokia suddenly became the linux foundation | 18:55 |
| Sc0rpius | so there are worse things that can happen | 18:55 |
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| Sc0rpius | if I was Nokia, I would have killed Symbian anyway at least two years ago, and all phones today would be Maemo "7" or something | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: I wonder if Elop asked 157 lawyers if what he did today was OK with them and their screwed view of reality | 18:57 |
| trx | he doesnt have to | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, probably yes. That's why it turned out to be like it is | 18:58 |
| trx | ms has plenty of lawyers.. | 18:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | trx: @M$ lawyers write the code | 18:58 |
| trx | um, you're probabbly right.. | 18:59 |
| Choom | what happened "today"? | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I really doubt Nokia has to *pay* a lot for lawyers telling them they are allowed to open up sources (C) Nokia that were closed due to BS like "differentiation" | 18:59 |
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| trx | if they dont want to open it up, they could at least give the source to the council or something | 19:00 |
| trx | so that at least someone can fix the bugs if they are scrapping it anyway | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: actually meego gets maemo sources, while maemo community never will - go figure | 19:02 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, we can rewrite parts | 19:03 |
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| MohammadAG | implement what Nokia didn't | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: That's not the point - though I mostly agree | 19:03 |
| NIN101 | Drivers are the most important thing if you ask me. | 19:03 |
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| MohammadAG | support a platform Nokia failed to do | 19:04 |
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| frals | DocScrutinizer: opensourcing a component is not as easy as throwing (l)gpl on it and then releasing, as you surely know | 19:05 |
| MohammadAG | frals, Nokia isn't doing both afaik | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: depends on what you're referring to | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: per definition it is | 19:06 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer: but most likely not legal to do so ;-) | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: actually not even any gpl needed, just publish or make available the code and it's open source | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: WTF could be illegal in publishing my own code? | 19:07 |
| derf | DocScrutinizer: Patents. | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 19:07 |
| frals | might be licensed from someone else, patents, etc | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | patents on calendar, SUUURE | 19:08 |
| frals | it needs to be verified its not breaking any previous agreements or anything, which i guess is a costly process | 19:08 |
| frals | hey apple patented icons didnt they? ;P | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | even if there were, an anonymous code drop wouldn't have any impact on patent trolling scene | 19:08 |
| derf | Someone tried to patent doule-clicking. Why wouldn't they patent a calendar? | 19:08 |
| Choom | there's also the FCC / CE compliance issue | 19:08 |
| frals | "anonymous code drop", you mean, breach of contract? | 19:08 |
| lolloo | Uninstalling Mubarak ... █████████████100%██████████████ | 19:09 |
| derf | But, 3rd party code is more likely for calendar. | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | what f'ing contract?? with whom?? | 19:09 |
| frals | who would the "anonymous code drop" come from? | 19:10 |
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| frals | i interpret is a a dev or something, which would probably have signed a contract with his employer | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, either there's a (C) Nokia header in a file, then ->publish immediately. Or there's a header (C) ACME Colabora, then ->don't publish, post a "sorry NDA" | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | easy as this | 19:11 |
| frals | id love to live in your b/w world :-) | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: hahaha | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my worls actually is B/W, as in B=1 W=0, I form ascii chars and even poems out of that | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a header in a .c or .h usually isn't colored | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's friggin clear | 19:13 |
| GAN900 | frals, andre__. :) | 19:13 |
| BCMM | anyone know how to make ordinary sound come out of the earphone (like sound from a call)? | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | either you own the source or you don't | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if you own, you publish after cleaning it, so nobody can prove it's actually yours. | 19:14 |
| BCMM | and can i mess stuff up by manually copying alsamixer settings from a call? | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you don't own, and you are a guy playing nice, you won't break contracts with yozr partners and won't publish their IP | 19:15 |
| trx | even if it does cost money, why cant they do this one last thing for us and do whatever they want later.. | 19:15 |
| NIN101 | yes, it would be at least a good away present. | 19:15 |
| frals | doing "nice things" doesnt generally provide cashflow, which is what investors care about, hence managers care about it :[ | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | trx: +1 | 19:16 |
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| frals | pretty sure many devs share your views, thou. | 19:16 |
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| trx | after all, you guys made software that helped sell the n900 | 19:16 |
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| trx | as soon as i heard of n900 and hen i bought one | 19:17 |
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| trx | maemo and h-e-n* | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: those managers must get fired, as they can't think about tomorrow, their idea about how business and esp customer relationship and corporate identity works obviously ends 60min from now with next newsflash and stock exchange reports. And you've seen what that gets them, today | 19:18 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: time to change the topic? | 19:18 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 19:18 | |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: suggestion: "LIVE ON #maemo: FALL OF NOKIA" | 19:18 |
| piggz | so, guys, its been pretty doom and gloom on twitter with the news..but....will there be anything as good as the n900? ..... will the next meego device be a phone? | 19:18 |
| javispedro | ;) | 19:18 |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | damage done, go ahead whining, nobody will care" | 19:18 | |
| * frals retires back to the kitchen and the beers | 19:19 | |
| trx | lol | 19:19 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 19:20 | |
| SpeedEvil | piggz: At 12:32 today, I heartd something that implied to me the next meego device is to be a phone. | 19:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I wasn't recording though. | 19:20 |
| jacekowski | wooot | 19:21 |
| jacekowski | nokia with windows? | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 19:21 |
| javispedro | good morning jacekowski | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | finally! | 19:21 |
| javispedro | and happy doomsday | 19:21 |
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| jacekowski | i may just get an iphone | 19:22 |
| piggz | SpeedEvil: that i suppose is a silver lining...i only hope that qt development stays on, its a great toolkit | 19:22 |
| slonopotamus | so... nokia's dead? :) | 19:22 |
| javispedro | good morning and happy doomsday to you slonopotamus too | 19:22 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro: ohai | 19:23 |
| marmoute | javispedro: morning ? it's 18h30 here ! | 19:23 |
| javispedro | ~tell marmoute about ugt | 19:23 |
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| trx | meh, we have our n900's... when they are dead, we can allways carry our desktops arround :) | 19:23 |
| * marmoute tell javispedro about "gug" | 19:23 | |
| jacekowski | and i have a headache | 19:23 |
| Tukanfan | hmm, actually thinking of buying a n900 - never been into smartphones before, but linux | 19:24 |
| marmoute | ok ok | 19:24 |
| jacekowski | Tukanfan: you would be buying very dead platform | 19:24 |
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| Sc0rpius | I actually think the best thing I have ever done in my life was buying the N900 | 19:25 |
| merlin1991 | Tukanfan, if you want to play around, get one on ebay, other than that it's outdated running a dead os | 19:25 |
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| Tukanfan | jacekowski: don't you think the community still will be around for some time? | 19:25 |
| pupnik | it's the best device in the world merlin1991 | 19:25 |
| merlin1991 | for playing around doing dev, being a geek, ... | 19:26 |
| jacekowski | Tukanfan: not for much longer | 19:26 |
| piggz | merlin1991: thx for the positive outlook! afaict, n900 is still one of the most advanced phones....no other phone has such great features built in, like connecting to all my IM accounts | 19:26 |
| merlin1991 | and pupnik I own one myself and I'm proud of it :D | 19:26 |
| Juozapas | but it will be possible to run meego on n900 ? | 19:27 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, yes. | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | 2011-02-10.173519+0000GMT.txt:(07:16:56 PM) SpeedEvil: I think they're going to try to use W7 as a fill-in till meego is ready. | 19:28 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 19:28 | |
| pupnik | this is literally a victory for satan | 19:28 |
| frals | heh, got a txt from a friend.. "2 Steves doesnt make the Jobs" | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hurry or I'll buy those remaining N900 to pile up a stockof spares | 19:28 |
| Juozapas | ;] | 19:28 |
| Tukanfan | Are you guys then keeping your n900's for as long time as possible, or do you switch platform? | 19:28 |
| Juozapas | i will keep it | 19:29 |
| NIN101 | keep. | 19:29 |
| merlin1991 | SpeedEvil> In principle, yes., that's the main problem with the n900, in principle everything is possible but you need to ignore all the -devel warnings and spend time with the device | 19:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Keep. | 19:29 |
| jhb1 | keep | 19:29 |
| Juozapas | and after few years maybe some other phone with meego | 19:29 |
| merlin1991 | keep | 19:29 |
| GAN900 | Tukanfan, to what? :( | 19:29 |
| SpeedEvil | And hope the meego phone is nice. | 19:29 |
| NIN101 | We need more real linux phones out there. | 19:29 |
| Per_n900 | I dont know what I would switch to, there really is nothing to switch to in my opinion. | 19:29 |
| Tukanfan | GEAN900: Yeah, excactly... | 19:29 |
| SpeedEvil | And that it sells well, and w7 doesn't and nokia leaps back aboard meego in desperation. | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | keep | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | for next 5 years minimum | 19:30 |
| Juozapas | :)) | 19:30 |
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| ptl | SpeedEvil: I think at that time Nokia will not exist anymore | 19:30 |
| javispedro | then, better start stocking n900s. | 19:30 |
| ptl | or even if it exists, will have no remaining resources | 19:30 |
| Juozapas | is there any meego phone already ? | 19:30 |
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| ptl | nope | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't give a shit about more linux phones out there. I'm happy with my stash of linux phones here | 19:31 |
| ptl | I give a shit. | 19:31 |
| ptl | I want a phone with meego. | 19:31 |
| Juozapas | there only problem with n900 is lag | 19:32 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, I want more RAM. :( | 19:32 |
| merlin1991 | hm n900 for 6,50 on ebay here | 19:32 |
| NIN101 | DocScrutinizer, basically I agree. But what do you wanna do if your n900 etc. gets too much outdated? | 19:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I actually wouldn't know what for | 19:32 |
| linuxplatform | this years biggest disappointment, Nokia & Microsoft | 19:33 |
| linuxplatform | come on | 19:33 |
| javispedro | Get a Macintosh! | 19:33 |
| pupnik_ | you don't understand how these things work NIN101 | 19:33 |
| pupnik_ | a N900 CAN NOT BE OUTDATED BY A WINDOWS PHONE | 19:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: how would it get outdated? | 19:33 |
| NIN101 | I mean the hardware | 19:33 |
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| javispedro | hi pupnik_ , happy doomsday :) | 19:33 |
| pupnik_ | hi javispedro | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | carriers tearing down 3G? :-P | 19:33 |
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| Tukanfan | What about intel? Would like to know what they're thinking in this mess | 19:33 |
| pupnik_ | dumbsday | 19:33 |
| javispedro | pupnik_++ | 19:34 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG | copying schemas into a deb isn't illegal is it? | 19:36 |
| javispedro | the stock is just 14% down and stabilizing, nothing is going to happen. | 19:36 |
| Per_n900 | What should we do? Try to help get meego running good on n900 or keep developing maemo? Stupid question? | 19:36 |
| ptl | I want a Samsung Meego Powr Dluxe 4G or with dual superdragon processors, 1 GB RAM, 2 GHz and 15 MP camera or any fashionable name like that. | 19:36 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: you can copyright a gconf schema file, but I don't think Nokia^W Microsoft is going to pursue that. | 19:36 |
| Juozapas | Per_n900: meego is a future i think | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, lies, we're all gonna die | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, mmk | 19:36 |
| Per_n900 | It would be a real shame to see this community dissolve, that is for sure. | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | then osso-applet-notificationlight will be replaced with a FOSS rewrite in the CSSU, thanks to nicolai | 19:37 |
| javispedro | Per_n900: maemo.org already didn't have anything to do with nokia | 19:37 |
| Juozapas | yeah ... looks like it is only question of time | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | doubt it | 19:38 |
| NIN101 | javispedro: It has | 19:38 |
| pupnik_ | where is your pride, finland. stick with linux. windows IS evil. | 19:38 |
| MohammadAG | finland isn't responsible for this, canada is :P | 19:38 |
| * ruskie waits for the: Linus uses a WinPho7 | 19:38 | |
| javispedro | Linus uses Android, that is shocking enough for me. | 19:38 |
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| * MohammadAG waits for the: Linux kernel was developed on Windows | 19:39 | |
| * DocScrutinizer throws a 1800g powerblock at ptl | 19:39 | |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: minix | 19:39 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, that's what was planted in your head, as a kid | 19:39 |
| MohammadAG | that's what they WANT you to believe | 19:39 |
| Per_n900 | javispedro: ok, fair enough, but it seems everybody here wants different things. | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | it was written on a early build of Windows 7 | 19:40 |
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| MohammadAG | an* | 19:40 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: quite early build then | 19:40 |
| * slonopotamus orders openpandora. and ftw. | 19:40 | |
| javispedro | good stuff. | 19:40 |
| Sc0rpius | Linux kernel was developed on Windows | 19:41 |
| Sc0rpius | and Linus is an ass | 19:42 |
| uhsf | I'd like to comment here about the disaster, but my thoughts have mostly been posted already, in a slightly more peaceful way. | 19:42 |
| javispedro | uhsf: feel free to panic. | 19:42 |
| Juozapas | ;] | 19:43 |
| merlin1991 | uhsf, this is officialy a channel of rage today, go ahead :) | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""Joe Hacker reveals WinMo7 is actually a linux-based OS with a funny skin created by a student at M$, and much closed to linux mainstream than for instance Android ever was"" :-P | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | closer* | 19:43 |
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| MohammadAG | what if Ari gets palm to use MeeGo? o_O | 19:44 |
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| ruskie | that might be interesting | 19:45 |
| sebsauer | yoh piggz :-) | 19:45 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: what for. They have their toolkit already. | 19:45 |
| javispedro | if anything they will use it as a base. | 19:45 |
| javispedro | and if that's all you care about, well... WebOS already uses a sane userspace. | 19:46 |
| ruskie | it does? | 19:46 |
| javispedro | openembedded. | 19:46 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, Nokia had more than one toolkit :P | 19:46 |
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| javispedro | save for lack of X11 and Bluez, it's on sanity level that's good enough for me, and way higher than Android's stupid mess. | 19:47 |
| MohammadAG | I hate both tbh | 19:48 |
| ruskie | what does it use instead of x or bluez? | 19:48 |
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| MohammadAG | well, dislike | 19:48 |
| wmarone | obviously we need to push hp to move webOS to wayland and meego :) | 19:48 |
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| javispedro | ruskie: qt for embedded, and something propietary for bt. | 19:48 |
| ptl | http://investors.nokia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=107224&p=irol-stockchart ---> still going down | 19:48 |
| uhsf | What future can you forsee now on maemo/meego if there is no successor for the N900? | 19:48 |
| jacekowski | death | 19:48 |
| MohammadAG | most users will be gone, developers will stay | 19:49 |
| ruskie | javispedro, hmm and you can pop open an xterm? and get root? | 19:49 |
| javispedro | ruskie: yes.... | 19:49 |
| jacekowski | sane is nice | 19:49 |
| jacekowski | portable is even better | 19:49 |
| vi_ | mohammed aka mo, what are the ekrnel modules that are tying the n900 to .28 kernel | 19:49 |
| ptl | meego will end up on netbooks, the netbooks will shrink to the size of tablets then tablets will shrink to be smartphones and then Meego will thrive. | 19:50 |
| vi_ | i.e. the closed ones | 19:50 |
| luke-jr | vi_: there are none afaik | 19:50 |
| wmarone | there are no closed kernel modules | 19:50 |
| ruskie | javispedro, hmm what exactly is the issue with webos then? | 19:50 |
| javispedro | ruskie: HP. Since they've rised to power they've already replaced dbus with a propietary ipc system. | 19:50 |
| vi_ | there must be or why are we still on .28 kernel? | 19:50 |
| luke-jr | vi_: but just because they are open, does not make them compatible with >.28 | 19:50 |
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| luke-jr | vi_: Maemo does not work with real Linux | 19:50 |
| luke-jr | only Nokia's modified version | 19:51 |
| luke-jr | MeeGo is not using .28 | 19:51 |
| vi_ | ok let me ask a different way | 19:51 |
| javispedro | ruskie: however, recently they've been talking again with webos-internals (basically their equivalent of maemo.org) so there might be hope... | 19:51 |
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| Naikel | actually I'm pretty sure Linux kernel was developed on BSD | 19:51 |
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| Sc0rpius | and I thought netsplits were a thing of the past... | 19:51 |
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| BCMM | Sc0rpius: why? | 19:51 |
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| * slonopotamus fails to order openpandora, they don't ship here | 19:51 | |
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| slonopotamus | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ this is especially funny | 19:51 |
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| BCMM | anyone know anything about making use of the n900's internal earphone? | 19:51 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 19:51 |
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| ruskie | wth was that | 19:51 |
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| wmarone | ruskie: freenode being awesome | 19:52 |
| piggz | lo sebsauer | 19:52 |
| piggz | sebsauer: what brings you here, you want to join in the rage? | 19:52 |
| vi_ | why is ubuntu mobile unable to use phone function? | 19:52 |
| ruskie | javispedro, hmm how about open and documented? | 19:52 |
| vi_ | lack if gsm chip driver? | 19:52 |
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| ruskie | ubuntu is useless for everything | 19:52 |
| jacekowski | yes | 19:52 |
| luke-jr | vi_: no, just because Ubuntu sucks | 19:53 |
| uhsf | I don't know why but it's like I knew all along that that Nokia/Meego was DOA since the Intel partnership last year. | 19:53 |
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| uhsf | Nokia didn't died today, it died one year ago. | 19:53 |
| javispedro | ruskie: it is obviously NOT open.... | 19:53 |
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| javispedro | which is a pity, if they gpl'd their frameworks they would probably be on a compatetive level of openness. | 19:54 |
| ruskie | javispedro, so basically other than the few GPL components that they might use... nothing else... | 19:54 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 19:54 |
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| javispedro | envision maemo with the current % of openness and add closed gtk, browser, and hildon to the mix. | 19:54 |
| ruskie | fun | 19:55 |
| javispedro | what's left? parts of base distro. | 19:55 |
| sebsauer | piggz: no, I am just lurking and probably pointing ppl at http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 which says MeeGo will continue and Qt will be on there WP7 :) | 19:55 |
| piggz | sebsauer: ?? i read qt would _not_ be on wp7 | 19:55 |
| uhsf | Maemo was so close to be perfect on the N900. If Nokia would have keep improving Maemo instead of starting all again from scratch with Meego, we would have plenty of great Maemo devices to choose from by now. | 19:55 |
| sebsauer | piggz: what source? | 19:55 |
| vi_ | why did nokia shit on me? | 19:55 |
| Sc0rpius | I agree | 19:55 |
| Sc0rpius | and actually Nokia should have ditched Symbian when the N900 was released and release all phones after that with Maemo, even the low-end phones | 19:56 |
| vi_ | low end phones cant handle maemo | 19:56 |
| RST38h | how lively here and on #meego... | 19:56 |
| ruskie | s40 is still great | 19:56 |
| Sc0rpius | a "reduced" version of Maemo | 19:56 |
| vi_ | symban makes even the lowest of the low a smartphone | 19:56 |
| Sc0rpius | for low-end phones | 19:56 |
| crashanddie_ | Sc0rpius, maemo 5 wasn't ready for mass production | 19:56 |
| Sc0rpius | why not? | 19:57 |
| Sc0rpius | it was actually great in the N900 | 19:57 |
| Sc0rpius | the first release | 19:57 |
| ruskie | for a subset of people | 19:57 |
| crashanddie_ | Sc0rpius, the team wasn't big enough, the QA was ridiculously bad, and the amount of stupid bugs was unbearable | 19:57 |
| Sc0rpius | well too bad, that's called "lack of a good management" | 19:57 |
| RST38h | crash: and these issues were impossible to fix? | 19:57 |
| Sc0rpius | beacuse Maemo had the potential, back in 2009, to be today the most powerful (and pretty) mobile OS | 19:58 |
| ruskie | probably undesired | 19:58 |
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| Sc0rpius | every bug is fixable. | 19:58 |
| Sc0rpius | you name a bug, and gimme the source code, I'll fix it. | 19:58 |
| crashanddie_ | the code wasn't open | 19:58 |
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| crashanddie_ | MfE? Closed source. Browser? Closed source (IIRC). Etc. | 19:59 |
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| crashanddie_ | Conversations? Closed source. | 19:59 |
| ruskie | crashanddie_, I thought only the front end for conversations is | 19:59 |
| crashanddie_ | Mediaplayer? Closed source. | 19:59 |
| ruskie | the backend is telepathy isn't it? | 19:59 |
| crashanddie_ | yeah. | 19:59 |
| ruskie | as for mfe... that's m$... until they open the protocols it'll remain close and broken | 19:59 |
| crashanddie_ | erhm... Exchange is an open protocol | 20:00 |
| ruskie | hahahahahaha | 20:00 |
| slonopotamus | crashanddie_: oh really? | 20:00 |
| crashanddie_ | it isn't? | 20:00 |
| ruskie | nope | 20:00 |
| crashanddie_ | I dunno, I had access to some pretty awesome doc in my last company | 20:00 |
| ruskie | Exchange == MAPI | 20:00 |
| piggz | sebsauer: will find source after i find osme pants! | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhsf: are you crossposting? | 20:00 |
| ruskie | the EU did some arm bending | 20:00 |
| slonopotamus | crashanddie_: actually no. reverse-engineered | 20:01 |
| ruskie | but nothing really came out of it... | 20:01 |
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| ruskie | else I would expect tbird to have support | 20:01 |
| ruskie | there actually is some stuff for mapi in samba4 | 20:01 |
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| ruskie | not sure how well it works... and iirc it's only evolution that has some support | 20:02 |
| crashanddie_ | Anyway, people who say Maemo was open are just pulling some red cloth over their eyes | 20:02 |
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| crashanddie_ | And drinking the Nokia koolaid | 20:02 |
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| piggz | sebsauer: http://www.carrypad.com/2011/02/11/meego-qt-and-nokia-feb-11th-2011/ | 20:03 |
| MohammadAG | <crashanddie_> Mediaplayer? Closed source. <-- MafwPlaylist, please? :) | 20:06 |
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| sebsauer | piggz: Nothing but speculations and I doubt your source got it. Qt is the bridge that brings there 3 platforms together. | 20:06 |
| sebsauer | but that's imho too | 20:06 |
| sebsauer | we will see | 20:07 |
| piggz | sebsauer: i hope you are right, most of my skills ar ein Qt! | 20:07 |
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| APTX | not having Qt in wp7 is a retarded idea for nokia. It's doing the exact same thing using Qt was supposed to fix | 20:09 |
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| GAN900 | Well, I guess some good has come of it | 20:11 |
| GAN900 | Elop fixed Egypt. | 20:11 |
| pupnik_ | anybody use webos? | 20:11 |
| ieatlint | nokia should've gone webos :( | 20:11 |
| ieatlint | hp would've played game | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG | GAN900, I hope Egypt can fix Elop then | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | mv nokia microkia | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG | mv nokia microsoft /dev/null | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | mv Elop /dev/null | 20:13 |
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| ruskie | cat /dev/zero > /dev/Elop | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | dd if=/dev/urandom of=Elop-core | 20:14 |
| ieatlint | eelopacalypse 2011 | 20:14 |
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| pupnik_ | hahah | 20:14 |
| ieatlint | minus one extra e | 20:14 |
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| MohammadAG | umm | 20:14 |
| MohammadAG | how do I check if dpkg versions are bigger than the other? | 20:14 |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Join our Elop bashing week 11.2-18.2." | 20:15 | |
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| MohammadAG | s/bigger/newer | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, e | 20:16 |
| ieatlint | so the other hilarious thing... meego conference for spring is due to open registration and cfp on monday | 20:16 |
| MohammadAG | X-Fade would know, but it's the weekend so ;P | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | was about to suggest a bathroom balance | 20:16 |
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| ieatlint | i guess with intel's support and nokia saying "no, we're dropping meego entirely", it's still going on | 20:16 |
| GAN900 | ieatlint, screw Elop. | 20:16 |
| RST38h | BTW, there will be a FRUCT conference in Moscow this March, where Meego guys are supposed to tlk about Qt programming | 20:16 |
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| RST38h | Guess, everyone will be in pretty funeral mood... | 20:17 |
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| MohammadAG | RST38h, I'd come, but I'm not used to subzero temperatures :P | 20:17 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Middle of March is rather vegetarian 0..+5 | 20:17 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Very wet though | 20:18 |
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| ieatlint | i can't get the time/money for a trip to moscow to see depressed developers drink vodka | 20:18 |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/" | 20:18 | |
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| MohammadAG | Jan 19 17:02:48 <X-Fade>dpkg --compare-versions X gt Y <-- found it! | 20:19 |
| vi_ | plz email me code fr bme | 20:19 |
| vi_ | what exactly is bme? | 20:19 |
| RST38h | battery management daemon | 20:20 |
| RST38h | if you do not know what it is, you do not need it | 20:20 |
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| Proteous | infobot nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo | 20:21 |
| uhsf | by curiosity, what is your back up solution now if your N900 ever dies in the future? buy another N900? | 20:21 |
| Proteous | it's n900s all the way down | 20:21 |
| vi_ | i know it is the battery managment entity! however i am asking what tasks does it perform? | 20:22 |
| * ShadowJK has two N900's | 20:22 | |
| * ruskie needs to buy one or two as well | 20:22 | |
| ShadowJK | almost 2 year warranty left on second n900 :) | 20:22 |
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| ruskie | and they are cheap on the local ebay-equiv | 20:22 |
| Juozapas | :) | 20:22 |
| ruskie | 180eur for a new with 2 year warranty | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | get a spare #3 and #4 | 20:23 |
| uhsf | what HP just announced for WebOS seems like the second best option, at least the hardware is new. but I'm not sure I would be comfortable with the software. | 20:23 |
| ruskie | ppl got them in various packages with phone companies and are now selling them | 20:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi_: why do you ask? | 20:23 |
| * MohammadAG needs another 2 N900s for a project :/ | 20:24 | |
| trumee | HP should grab the opportunity and open its UI. | 20:25 |
| Juozapas | but is it possible that users will run updates for n900 for long time ? | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi_: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME | 20:25 |
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| ieatlint | so the n9 is dead, symbian is dead, and meego and qt just got kicked in the balls | 20:25 |
| * trumee finds it pathetic that Palm Pre lacks any sip software | 20:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Juozapas: why do you want to run updates? I for one always shudder when I have to do | 20:26 |
| ieatlint | and we have intel over here crying, hoping that it didn't burst a testicle so they can still have kids | 20:26 |
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| * RST38h idly considers putting together a handset ui | 20:26 | |
| Juozapas | DocScrutinizer: i mean bug fixes and all that stuff | 20:27 |
| trumee | ieatlint: has there been any official announcement from intel? | 20:27 |
| ieatlint | yes | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Juozapas: I'd hope there won't be too much bugs coming up in a few months | 20:27 |
| trumee | ieatlint: link? | 20:27 |
| ieatlint | "While we are disappointed with Nokia’s decision, Intel is not blinking on MeeGo" | 20:28 |
| ieatlint | let me find link | 20:28 |
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| ieatlint | http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego | 20:29 |
| ieatlint | a google search of that quote yields 64 sources right now | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11913 Closed source settings applet replaced by open source clone, thanks to nicolai | 20:29 |
| povbot | Bug 11913: cloned notification light applet with proper portrait mode dialog | 20:29 |
| Juozapas | :)) | 20:29 |
| Choom | without a platform, meego is useless | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG | hopefully, this'll trend | 20:29 |
| ieatlint | Choom: we'll see tablets and netbooks... | 20:30 |
| vi_ | nokia have just assfucked themselves in teir own asses | 20:30 |
| trumee | ieatlint: thanks | 20:30 |
| ieatlint | heh, i'm sure that nokia employees feel more assfucked than anyone else right now | 20:30 |
| Juozapas | :D | 20:31 |
| ieatlint | "oh hey, those huge projects you just spent the last 2 years on? yeah, haha, about that..." | 20:31 |
| Choom | ieatlint: I doubt anyone is willing to follow that path, especially with androind to compete against | 20:31 |
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| ieatlint | "now go sit around awkwardly and see if we start handing out pink slips" | 20:31 |
| vi_ | good, can som1 capitalise on this bad feeling and get one of them to steal all the code for maemo and upload it to teh piratebay? | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: actually meego is maybe fine for tablets, but Intel just ignores (like Nokia does) that a OS for a PHONE has quite a different set of major design goals than a tablet OS | 20:31 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: "wait for your pink slip" | 20:31 |
| pupnik | vi_: or wikileaks ;) | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and meego-arm never looked like it's getting into shape IMHO | 20:32 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: indeed | 20:32 |
| ieatlint | and i could see meego working quite well for a tablet | 20:32 |
| ieatlint | including with qt/qml... which, if the right devs get into it, can really do some awesome stuff | 20:32 |
| ieatlint | much more so than what you'd see on an android platform, or rim, or ipad | 20:32 |
| trumee | what is the deal with WebOS. Is it a normal linux OS with just a closed UI? | 20:33 |
| ruskie | trumee, from what I understand something along those lines... | 20:34 |
| RST38h | trumee: Linux, no X11, HTML5-based "normal" SDK, SDL based native SDK | 20:34 |
| trumee | RST38h: no normal linuxy things like ssh, openvpn, shell scripts, python work fine? | 20:34 |
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| ieatlint | there is a terminal with linuxy things | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | I need openvpn to access my email :/ | 20:35 |
| ieatlint | i've heard awesome things about webos | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | "It's not a phone, it's a computer on your palm" - I should have noticed 2 years ago the misconception at Nokia regarding this | 20:35 |
| ruskie | javispedro explained it before... | 20:35 |
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| trumee | ieatlint: that is a relief | 20:35 |
| trumee | ruskie: ? | 20:35 |
| javispedro | hi again. | 20:35 |
| ruskie | about webos | 20:35 |
| trumee | ruskie: ah, i need to check the log | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia as well as whole meego-arm taskforce never realized a phone is NOT just a miniaturized computer | 20:36 |
| trumee | javispedro: can qt apps be ported with a recompile over to webos? | 20:37 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, but but but that's what I want it to be | 20:37 |
| javispedro | trumee: yes, qt over a sdl framebuffer works | 20:37 |
| javispedro | trumee: however, hardly "native feel": | 20:37 |
| trumee | javispedro: nice | 20:37 |
| javispedro | s/:/. | 20:37 |
| RST38h | Doc: you are taking Nokia's marketing department output too seriously | 20:37 |
| trumee | javispedro: ah. i see | 20:37 |
| RST38h | Doc: N97 has been labelled a computer.And n95 ~ | 20:38 |
| RST38h | too. | 20:38 |
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| WP7 | >.<! | 20:38 |
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| WP7 | WHYYYYYYYYY :( | 20:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /nick-remane WP7 WM7 | 20:38 |
| WP7 | why wm | 20:39 |
| Juozapas | ;]] | 20:39 |
| WP7 | isn't it WP :p | 20:39 |
| ruskie | it's windows phone | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | winMo | 20:39 |
| ruskie | they ditched mobile | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 20:39 |
| WP7 | it's Windows Phone | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 20:39 |
| WP7 | damn man | 20:39 |
| WP7 | seriously | 20:39 |
| WP7 | this sux | 20:39 |
| Proteous | windows 7 phone series 7 phone | 20:40 |
| Proteous | 7 | 20:40 |
| Choom | I don't mind windows -- as a replacement for symbian | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | mailto:elop@nokia.com | 20:40 |
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| ieatlint | i hear WP and i think word perfect | 20:40 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, you mean he actually reads that? | 20:40 |
| RST38h | Doc: Goin' to mailbomb poor chap? =) | 20:40 |
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| ieatlint | i'm not sure if a word perfect phone would be scariar | 20:40 |
| MohammadAG | Choom, this isn't #symbian :P | 20:40 |
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| javispedro | KILL KILL KILL | 20:41 |
| javispedro | DIE DIE DIE | 20:41 |
| Choom | MohammadAG: I don't think the move to windows intended to replace the linux platforms either, it's just a casualty | 20:41 |
| Choom | I'll happily buy their windows phones | 20:41 |
| ieatlint | if nokia wanted to save a bit, they'd let users install meego on the forthcoming wm7 phones | 20:41 |
| Choom | sucks that my n900 is condemned to be one of a kind | 20:41 |
| MohammadAG | no, it's not a casualty | 20:42 |
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| MohammadAG | MeeGo was the #1 priority for Nokia | 20:42 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo and Qt | 20:42 |
| ruskie | from what I've read it'll just have a severely reduced budget | 20:42 |
| RST38h | no | 20:42 |
| javispedro | I guess that a full Linux platform can't never be a #1 priority. | 20:42 |
| Choom | MohammadAG: so why were they going to release the N9 with symbian? | 20:42 |
| MohammadAG | Choom, they weren't | 20:42 |
| MohammadAG | who said the N9 was going to have symbian? | 20:43 |
| Choom | ? | 20:43 |
| javispedro | when it seemed like it was going to happen (because it didn't happen), a microsoft buyout puts a nice end to it. | 20:43 |
| Choom | MohammadAG: they did? it's in the product page, I think | 20:43 |
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| MohammadAG | the N9 wasn't even announced... | 20:43 |
| ieatlint | all the rumours said meego, and the n9 has never been announced | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: [2011-02-11 14:39:45] <DocScrutinizer> Nokia: sell your phones with "choose your OS" option! unique in the market | 20:43 |
| Juozapas | so no n9 at all ? | 20:43 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: you misunderstand, it's more important when *I* say it | 20:43 |
| ieatlint | it's part of my whole arrogant elitist attitude, you see | 20:44 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: _no_ big device manufacturer is going to do that. if anything, expect such an important change to come from a sw only manufacturer first. | 20:44 |
| Choom | then I must be confusing something | 20:44 |
| MohammadAG | Devices should be announced on monday, if any | 20:44 |
| javispedro | on monday, Nokia had qt dev sessions planned =) | 20:44 |
| MohammadAG | yes, you're confusing the N9 with the E7 | 20:44 |
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| ieatlint | javispedro: you mean like how i can change the bootloader and such on the n900? | 20:45 |
| ieatlint | none will ever do it, you're right | 20:45 |
| Choom | I'm confusing it with the N8 | 20:45 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: you can also change it on some htc devices. | 20:45 |
| ieatlint | just like the google adp1, google nexus one, etc | 20:45 |
| javispedro | so what. | 20:45 |
| ieatlint | so the point is they are capable | 20:45 |
| RST38h | #symbian issoooo quiet tonight | 20:45 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: bootloader is not even 0.1% of what is needed. | 20:45 |
| ieatlint | and by just leaving that hole open, they can satisfy a nerd base | 20:45 |
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| ieatlint | eh... it's more than 1%, but yes, i realise the driver support required | 20:46 |
| javispedro | you don't even need bootloader support to run other OSes. | 20:46 |
| javispedro | if the main kernel is sane enough. | 20:46 |
| uhsf | what about the possibility of flashing WP phones to install Meego instead? would the hardware be too different? | 20:46 |
| javispedro | so, way less than 0.1% :D | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you must be mad, regarding your IRC channels | 20:46 |
| vi_ | im still getting my n900 meego upgrade right? | 20:46 |
| ieatlint | good point, i'm sure window's is | 20:46 |
| ruskie | vi_, what upgrade? | 20:46 |
| ieatlint | just like i'm sure that kexec was enabled on android phones | 20:46 |
| ieatlint | you know, what with their sane kernel | 20:47 |
| Choom | vi_: you were never meant to | 20:47 |
| vi_ | meego 1.3 for n900 | 20:47 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: sane android kernel? :( | 20:47 |
| ruskie | vi_, where did you get that idea? | 20:47 |
| Choom | the n900 is a maemo platform, you can install meego on it, but it was never intended to be supported | 20:47 |
| ruskie | officially that is | 20:47 |
| ieatlint | Choom: have you installed meego on it? :P | 20:47 |
| vi_ | yeah but n900 is meego development platform | 20:47 |
| vi_ | ergo meego works on n900 | 20:47 |
| Choom | ieatlint: no, I actually do like maemo | 20:47 |
| ruskie | it's a reference platform | 20:47 |
| ieatlint | it's not workable.. at all | 20:48 |
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| ruskie | ieatlint, mostly due to meego limitations atm | 20:48 |
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| ieatlint | it just gives an X interface and the api | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | dudes, actually there's no such thing like hw tailored to match any particular OS | 20:48 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: oh, with microsoft there is. | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's always just a question of OS supporting the hw | 20:48 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: read about their crappy sd slot requeriments, and gfx, and .. | 20:49 |
| Choom | DocScrutinizer: my keyboard has windows keys | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/hw/mobile device platform/ | 20:49 |
| flailingmonkey | not like it matters, the whole thing will be locked down with DRM | 20:49 |
| javispedro | http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831 (windows phne 7 sd slot requeriments) | 20:50 |
| flailingmonkey | I guess this sits well with the management, who never liked/groked open source | 20:50 |
| ieatlint | no no, MS software is known for being open, free, secure and stable | 20:50 |
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| javispedro | a fun read. | 20:50 |
| flailingmonkey | they'll keep the management, and lose the engineers | 20:50 |
| Choom | flailingmonkey: quite frankly I don't care much about "open source" either | 20:50 |
| Choom | to me, open source means poorly documented, in most cases | 20:51 |
| flailingmonkey | NOK stock down 8% yesterday from rumors, and today has dropped another 14% | 20:51 |
| Choom | I do, however, like maemo's "desktop" feel | 20:51 |
| ieatlint | flailingmonkey: indeed... other companies are about to pick up a good number of qualified people | 20:51 |
| ieatlint | if nokia doesn't lay them off, they'll quit | 20:51 |
| Choom | it feels like a proper unix system | 20:51 |
| flailingmonkey | I guess Elop thought that Wall Street would be happy with the announcement, but they can sense desperation without having to know technical details | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: aaaaha, so windows is a synonym for good complete comprehensive documentation of system internals then? | 20:52 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: AHAHAHAHA. oh, you just made me smile :) | 20:52 |
| vi_ | so nokia have lost almost 25% of their market value in 2 days? | 20:52 |
| flailingmonkey | anyone who thinks that close source leads to better documentation is simply ignorant of reality | 20:52 |
| javispedro | vi_: also alienated their customer base and employees. | 20:52 |
| * vi_ in unreal tournament announcer voice | 20:52 | |
| vi_ | HOLY SHIT! | 20:53 |
| ieatlint | vi_: closer to 20%, but slightly under | 20:53 |
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| Choom | DocScrutinizer: no, but unless you are developing drivers or debuggers, that's unlikely to affect you | 20:53 |
| flailingmonkey | i'm pretty sure the 14% is 14% of the 92% remaining yesterday. apparently $8 billion lost in market value though | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 20:53 |
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| vi_ | 8bn | 20:53 |
| vi_ | holy fucking ass | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: so maybe the fee to get development tools for WP7 is, then | 20:54 |
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| ieatlint | i still expected them to go with qtopia | 20:54 |
| vi_ | that is more money than scotland | 20:54 |
| WP7 | :( | 20:54 |
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| pupnik | the cancer from redmond has metastasized again | 20:54 |
| Choom | DocScrutinizer: microsoft has their own development tools | 20:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Choom: orly? | 20:55 |
| flailingmonkey | I understand why people associate open source with poor documentation. you can actually see whether the docs are poor. with proprietary often times you have to pay for the "docs" and so assume you'd get something worth while | 20:55 |
| Choom | and there's a free / express version of them if you don't feel like paying for more | 20:55 |
| javispedro | not for wp7 | 20:55 |
| WP7 | =( | 20:55 |
| javispedro | WP7: go away, you're not loved here. | 20:55 |
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| flailingmonkey | also, anyone can write an open source program. and most people don't like documenting. but that doesn't lead to closed source projects magically getting good docs | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Choom: now THAT'S REALLy GREAT! I get a express/light/crippled version for free. Incredibly generous | 20:56 |
| deno | Hi there | 20:56 |
| flailingmonkey | apparently they will make the WP7 dev tools free, something they announced | 20:56 |
| blue_led | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2011/02/11/google-makes-job-offer-to-nokia-engineers | 20:57 |
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| flailingmonkey | very smart | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | still I don't give a fsck yet on redmond crap | 20:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they couldn't even pay me to use it | 20:57 |
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| flailingmonkey | agreed | 20:57 |
| deno | doing apt-get source kernel in the scratchbox environment what kernel I'll get? | 20:58 |
| deno | If I want the latest n900 kernel, | 20:58 |
| javispedro | deno: the good one. | 20:58 |
| vi_ | mmm, symbian sdk was free. so what. | 20:58 |
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| Choom | the thing about the n900 to me is that I can, in many cases, simply cross-compile software and run it on my phone | 20:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I've been thru with M$ the very moment I first installed DrDOS insted of their crappy MSDOS | 20:58 |
| Choom | that's the only loss windows represents for me | 20:58 |
| LjL | any clue why trying to install Pidgin results in my OS2008 installer saying that libhildon-extras1 is not available? | 20:59 |
| flailingmonkey | some people are like "well WP7 sounds good, whats wrong with that?" the real fundamental change is that Nokia will stop its (very grudgingly made) progress towards open source, and be quickly back in its comfortable proprietary womb | 20:59 |
| Choom | in any case my phone isn't going anywhere any time soon | 20:59 |
| deno | javispedro, but I'm looking for the kernel that provides both the overclocking and h-e-n support | 20:59 |
| vi_ | then get powerkernel 46 bro | 20:59 |
| korhojoa | 'bro' | 20:59 |
| deno | vi_, are you speaking with me? | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | deno: yes, kernel-power is the one for you | 21:01 |
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| deno | DocScrutinizer, do you know where can I get it? | 21:03 |
| deno | I m looking in the maemo packages | 21:04 |
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| WP7 | Who played Snake on Youtube? :) | 21:04 |
| deno | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/kernel-power-flasher/2.6.28-maemo46/ | 21:05 |
| deno | it should be this | 21:05 |
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| WP7 | DocScrutinizer: u ever played snake on youtube? | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, doesn't parse | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I played snake on Nokia 6210, and I played back music videos from youtube on N900 | 21:08 |
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| deno | there are 3 files: | 21:09 |
| deno | 2e832a595d6c7150d44e85e7db2339711066kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46.dsc | 21:09 |
| deno | 6324494f7d2bc81269af681e71b18fd267389527kernel-power_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz | 21:09 |
| deno | a38be528ca38ed86259410a2bca8f8c33193461kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46.diff.gz | 21:09 |
| deno | the orig is the one unmodified right? | 21:10 |
| javispedro | just do dpkg-source -x *.dsc | 21:10 |
| deno | is there no the original source? | 21:10 |
| deno | uhm | 21:10 |
| deno | so the only important file is the .dsc? | 21:10 |
| javispedro | read it and you will understand what it is. | 21:10 |
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| deno | kk | 21:11 |
| deno | thanks :) | 21:11 |
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| ieatlint | remember, yahoo partnered with microsoft and it saved them.. i'm sure nokia made the right choice | 21:11 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: youtube has a easter egg where you can play Snake on their website | 21:11 |
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| javispedro | and palm, they saved palm too! | 21:11 |
| deno | is like the description | 21:11 |
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| flailingmonkey | yahoo saved microsoft search | 21:11 |
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| flailingmonkey | not the other way around | 21:12 |
| ieatlint | javispedro: you mean hp? | 21:12 |
| ieatlint | flailingmonkey: wrong | 21:12 |
| ieatlint | yahoo uses bing | 21:12 |
| ieatlint | they backend queries to it | 21:12 |
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| uhsf | aren't you amazed by the extreme stupidity of Nokia's leaders? I mean 15% market shares drop in a few hours, I don't know anything about market shares, but even I could've predicted this easily. why so much stupidity is beyond my understanding. | 21:13 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: I hoped you were being ironic. | 21:13 |
| pupnik | can the n900 be 'locked'? i see people writing the network name in auctions | 21:14 |
| ieatlint | javispedro: i'm lying next to a yahoo sysop... i'm not.. | 21:14 |
| ieatlint | nokia just took a page from their book | 21:14 |
| javispedro | hardly | 21:14 |
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| ieatlint | including the severely demoralize all your workers and plan random layoffs | 21:14 |
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| flailingmonkey | yesterday they lost 8%, from the rumors | 21:15 |
| javispedro | everytime some company has an slowly outdating but still big market share operating system, | 21:15 |
| javispedro | the choice of using whatever crap M$ has at that moment appears | 21:15 |
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| javispedro | apple didn't do it, look where they are. | 21:15 |
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| javispedro | palm did it. went bankrupt. | 21:15 |
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| javispedro | bought by hp. | 21:15 |
| ieatlint | palm made their own stuff, and linux based at that | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: yes | 21:16 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: you're failing at palm story :) | 21:16 |
| EdLin | ieatlint: only after years of using Windows Mobile for most of their devices instead of PalmOS | 21:16 |
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| flailingmonkey | I do have to applaud microsoft. a very cunning strike from them | 21:17 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: they had like 70% of smartphone market share. | 21:17 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: now they're battling for the 1% | 21:17 |
| ieatlint | haha, ok, i happily blinded myself to that then | 21:17 |
| deno | will the apt-get source kernel-power command give me the latest power kernel 46 ? | 21:17 |
| EdLin | ieatlint: understandable, the Windows Mobile Treos were a nightmare most of us don't want to remember. | 21:17 |
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| flailingmonkey | does nothing against their competitors who are actually in the market though. Apple must be ecstatic | 21:17 |
| javispedro | and I predict that in two years Nokia will be a shadow of what it is now. | 21:17 |
| pupnik | I remember Microsoft tried to prevent us from having THE INTERNET | 21:18 |
| javispedro | in fact, it is already a shadow of what is was yesterday, considering the layoffs and cuts in R&D spending | 21:18 |
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| flailingmonkey | yup | 21:18 |
| pupnik | if R&D doesn't generate ROI then it's a waste | 21:18 |
| javispedro | from being one of the largest R&D budgets in the world, to a dying noname microsoft hardware-making subsidiary | 21:19 |
| korhojoa | depends on the R&D | 21:19 |
| flailingmonkey | doing only applied research, and no pure research, ensures that you will always be catching up | 21:19 |
| pupnik | korhojoa: exactly how is R&D which doesn't generate returns, a good investment? | 21:19 |
| javispedro | pupnik: by generated long-term returns | 21:20 |
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| javispedro | *generating | 21:20 |
| korhojoa | well, if it generates a brand or assists people outside of your business | 21:20 |
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| wmarone | pupnik: my current project is years away from turning into something profitable. all the peripheral research into raw technologies will basically define how a number of future computing subsystems will be built. | 21:21 |
| korhojoa | pupnik: like IBM doing the watson thinfg | 21:21 |
| wmarone | long-term R&D is never a bad thing, so long as your short term isn't fucked :) | 21:21 |
| korhojoa | thing | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: korhojoa: that's exactly why Nokia should happily afford whatever lawyers' fees they think it might take, to open up maemo source | 21:22 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: they might as well at this point. they'll have no use for it | 21:22 |
| ieatlint | yeah, but they cut meego's r&d by about 75% | 21:22 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: good luck asking Microsoft to open the source of legacy products from one of the companies they just adquired. | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha :-S | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | right | 21:23 |
| flailingmonkey | javispedro: but this deal is the best of both worlds. they basically "own" Nokia, but without having the capital outlays of buying them out | 21:23 |
| uhsf | now that Nokia's dead, my main concern is about the future of open mobile devices. what company could make any interesting hardware in a foreseable future? | 21:23 |
| flailingmonkey | at least until Nokia stock is in the pennies | 21:23 |
| javispedro | flailingmonkey: I hope the EU comission sees through it =) | 21:23 |
| javispedro | they would probably have something to say to an outright buyout. | 21:23 |
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| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: hm. | 21:24 |
| flailingmonkey | uhsf: I think there is space now for a new entry to the industry actually | 21:24 |
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| federico2 | hi there | 21:24 |
| flailingmonkey | uhsf: especially with the soon to be available Nokians (engineers, the management will stick around, happy to return to purely proprietary development) | 21:24 |
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| dos1 | uhsf: if you're Linux-related hacker, then maybe GTA04 will be the way to go :) | 21:25 |
| pupnik | "long term R&D is never a bad thing" <<< - pay MEEEE! i'm an ARTIST!!! | 21:25 |
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| uhsf | dos1: i had a Neo FreeRunner but changed it for a N900, i don't have much interest in GTA04 | 21:26 |
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| uhsf | for example, HP hardware really doesn't cut it either, I think it's Sony that should lighten up and bring Meego to life | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | future Nokia phones are as suited for open mobile linux based OS, as they were before they switched to WP7 | 21:27 |
| flailingmonkey | hey, now they have no excuses for when Nokia WP7 phone doesn't integrate properly with Active Directory, Exchange, and Windows syncing | 21:28 |
| WP7 | lol | 21:28 |
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| WP7 | Nokia shares: -18% !!! | 21:28 |
| javispedro | flailingmonkey: pfft. microsoft does not know how to do a proper exchange client either. | 21:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | -15.7% here | 21:28 |
| WP7 | http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AMSFT%2C+NYSE%3ANOK%2C+ | 21:28 |
| flailingmonkey | javispedro: I said no excuses. I fully expect it to fail in the most agonizing ways | 21:28 |
| WP7 | I hope nokia will fail :) sorry | 21:29 |
| WP7 | then they will pleased to return to meego | 21:29 |
| federico2 | may I join and hope that both will fail? | 21:29 |
| WP7 | Windows should be just on pc's... not on phones | 21:30 |
| WP7 | federico2: Both? U mean meego too? | 21:30 |
| federico2 | nokia and m$ | 21:30 |
| WP7 | ah | 21:30 |
| WP7 | MS wont fail | 21:31 |
| WP7 | at least, they are already failed | 21:31 |
| flailingmonkey | Elop is one ugly ugly guy | 21:31 |
| pupnik | the corrupt US government has a part in this | 21:31 |
| pupnik | they were the ones that pushed software patents on the planet | 21:31 |
| RST38h | pupnik:And the UN. Do not forget the UN | 21:31 |
| pupnik | software patents | 21:31 |
| javispedro | tbh I think I'm with pupnik on this conspiracy theory | 21:31 |
| WP7 | guys.... | 21:31 |
| WP7 | Another Ex-Microsoft appointed as Nokia’s North American President. | 21:32 |
| RST38h | javispedro: YOu mean, you will believe intoUS government overthe Tentacled One??? | 21:32 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/mpeg_la_calls_for_patents_related_to_google_open_source_codec/ | 21:32 |
| javispedro | the tentacled one is to blame! | 21:32 |
| pupnik | ok RST38h do you mean it is not an entity? - that's a fair comment | 21:32 |
| WP7 | http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/11/another-ex-microsoft-appointed-as-nokias-north-american-president/ | 21:32 |
| federico2 | pupnik, more than corrupt, I'd say it's built to work in that way. The bigger a company is the more lobbying can do | 21:33 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer is right, the phones and the chips in them will be just as useful running an open source mobile OS as WP7. but a lot of work goes into ironing out the kinks | 21:33 |
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| javispedro | which means you never get a N900-like thing. | 21:33 |
| javispedro | unless you can counter the previous 1000 experiences. | 21:33 |
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| WP7 | :( | 21:34 |
| * WP7 FAILS! | 21:34 | |
| * WP7 should die! | 21:34 | |
| flailingmonkey | hehehe | 21:34 |
| ieatlint | Speaking at the launch of the partnership, Nokia's chief executive Stephen Elop revealed that there would be "substantial" job losses as a result of the tie-up. | 21:35 |
| * WP7 < iPhone | 21:35 | |
| ieatlint | ok, enough of watching the titantic head slowly towards the iceberg, i'm going to go get food | 21:35 |
| * WP7 iOS * | 21:35 | |
| * WP7 < RIM !!!!! | 21:35 | |
| pupnik | well if hardware is a commodity, can we make a company that sells that plus a working linux OS? | 21:35 |
| ieatlint | ios is cisco, and it always will be | 21:35 |
| *** kerio is now known as KERIO | 21:35 | |
| WP7 | hell, even BB has a better OS :/ | 21:35 |
| *** KERIO is now known as kerio | 21:35 | |
| RST38h | pupnik: you can, go ahead:) | 21:35 |
| EdLin | pupnik: many windows mobile 6 devices can run android. | 21:35 |
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| WP7 | well... | 21:36 |
| WP7 | seems to be right | 21:36 |
| EdLin | pupnik: so it should be possible, my hd2 can run meego and android and ubuntu as well as it's native wm6 or wp7. | 21:36 |
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| WP7 | end of the world = 2012 :p | 21:36 |
| javispedro | EdLin: the reason for that is that hd2=hd7=some other phone I forgot | 21:36 |
| javispedro | EdLin: they just swap the operating system and resell it to you for full price. | 21:37 |
| EdLin | javispedro: hd2 = about any htc device made after it | 21:37 |
| javispedro | for now. | 21:37 |
| EdLin | javispedro: hd2 = desire and n1 fairly exactly. | 21:37 |
| flailingmonkey | if anyone at Nokia really thinks they will be able to "drive and define" the future of Windows Phone, they are completely delusional | 21:37 |
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| EdLin | javispedro: though the best kernels are evo-based | 21:37 |
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| flailingmonkey | lol, Elop tries to counted the "two turkeys don't make an eagle" comment with "Or this: Two bicycle makers, from Dayton Ohio, one day decided to fly." | 21:38 |
| EdLin | I also have an n810, so I do belong here. ;-) | 21:38 |
| flailingmonkey | they certainly must be flying, because they are clearly HIGH off their asses | 21:39 |
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| EdLin | flailingmonkey: studying the history of Palm should show that partnering with a rival, especially Redmond, for your OS is a kiss of death. But elop is a microsoftie himself, who's presided over the destruction of some other companies like Macromedia, so he probably doesn't care about Nokia's long-term interests. | 21:41 |
| flailingmonkey | EdLin: indeed. history shows very clearly how this "strategic partnership" will work out. the investors don't need to know anything about the technical issues, they have seen this happen before | 21:42 |
| EdLin | microsoft is known to eat it's strategic partners for lunch. ;-) | 21:43 |
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| flailingmonkey | from the open letter Elop and Ballmer on nokia conversations, the only thing Nokia is "getting" is "Microsoft development tools will be used to create applications to run on Nokia Windows Phones, allowing developers to easily leverage the ecosystem’s global reach. " | 21:44 |
| flailingmonkey | ugh | 21:44 |
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| vi_ | that is gay, evveryone knows vim is the only sdk you will ever need | 21:45 |
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| pupnik | 'global reich' is more like it | 21:46 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, mind helping out with git? :) | 21:46 |
| vi_ | reducto ad hitlerum much? | 21:46 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: what's the problem? | 21:46 |
| EdLin | vi_: vim? only the original vi(1) is worth using, not recognizing your terminal's arrow keys, ftw! | 21:46 |
| vi_ | lol | 21:46 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG: git makes my brain hurt sometimes | 21:47 |
| vi_ | trading linux for wp7 IS like trading vim for a bowling pin | 21:47 |
| jaska | :D | 21:48 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I need to fix https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11868 | 21:48 |
| povbot | Bug 11868: Pull tinymail sources into gitorious.org/community-ssu | 21:48 |
| MohammadAG | I pulled tinymail, then pushed it to the CSSU repo | 21:49 |
| MohammadAG | although I recall I did a git push origin/tinymail-1-2 master, it pushed the main branch to master | 21:49 |
| javispedro | uh.. | 21:49 |
| javispedro | that is hard (TM) | 21:49 |
| javispedro | I guess that you want there is what git calls to cherry-pic | 21:49 |
| javispedro | k | 21:49 |
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| MohammadAG | I want origin/tinymail-1-2 as master | 21:49 |
| flailingmonkey | i love a lot of things about git. but moving changes around often leads to my ass getting kicked by git | 21:50 |
| WP7 | :( | 21:50 |
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| * WP7 killed MeeGo && Symbian | 21:52 | |
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| jaska | wordperfect 7 | 21:53 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: ah, so you didn't work on any SSU changes for tinymail. you're starting afresh? | 21:53 |
| * SpeedEvil stabs WP7. | 21:53 | |
| uhsf | I think it would be a great time to reunite Maemo and Meego communities into one, to join forces and produce the best open mobile platform, and under a better name by the occasion. | 21:54 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: then you can rename local branches with -m, and push it to some other remote | 21:54 |
| javispedro | s/-m/git branch -m <old> <new> | 21:54 |
| flailingmonkey | moving Meego from their awesome high-end mobile OS to, "a learning, experimental blah blah blah" IS the kiss of death for Nokia dev on Meego Handset | 21:54 |
| *** WP7 is now known as WindowsPhone7 | 21:54 | |
| * WindowsPhone7 rapes MeeGo | 21:55 | |
| Per_n900 | uhsf: I think you could be right. | 21:55 |
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| Per_n900 | WindowsPhone7: thats great. | 21:56 |
| flailingmonkey | uhsf: yeah, unfortunately maemo is in a more useable state, but is burdened by closed code. | 21:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | There has been a fair amount of progress at last at understanding what needs to be done tomake replacement blobs though. | 21:56 |
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| Per_n900 | Is there a point to keep at maemo? Why not join forces with meego? | 21:59 |
| WindowsPhone7 | Per_n900: because meego is not out yet | 22:01 |
| WindowsPhone7 | (usable meego) | 22:01 |
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| WindowsPhone7 | LOL! Nokia stocks are on -19% | 22:03 |
| WindowsPhone7 | xD | 22:03 |
| chx | http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK ? says -16% | 22:03 |
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| ZogG | frals, what is your plans after nokia contract is finished? | 22:03 |
| WindowsPhone7 | http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AMSFT%2C+NYSE%3ANOK%2C+ | 22:03 |
| javispedro | "Some have said that I'm Microsoft's Trojan horse. That's silly- I'm Canadian, duh!" | 22:04 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG what is tinymail? any announcements screenshots? | 22:05 |
| WindowsPhone7 | I feel another "steve jobs / bill gates" comic is coming..... | 22:05 |
| WindowsPhone7 | frals is working for nokia? | 22:05 |
| WindowsPhone7 | i feel sorry for the ones that works @ nokia | 22:05 |
| WindowsPhone7 | Microsoft planned this whole thing from the very beginning | 22:06 |
| Per_n900 | Seriously, can anyone explain why we should not join forces with meego? | 22:06 |
| WindowsPhone7 | Per_n900: I told ou... | 22:06 |
| WindowsPhone7 | [21:01] <WindowsPhone7> Per_n900: because meego is not out yet [21:01] <WindowsPhone7> (usable meego) | 22:06 |
| uhsf | i would have expected most people here moving to meego and let maemo die as it's not supported by anyone anymore. but the thing is not a single meego device was ever released, so all that's left are Nxxx maemo users questioning about the future of open mobile platform | 22:06 |
| Juozapas | check http://nokia.com stupid assholes want to celebrate | 22:06 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG, it's the backend for modest, nothing new | 22:06 |
| ZogG | oh i thought it's instead of it | 22:07 |
| Per_n900 | Windowsphone7: that is not what I asked. | 22:07 |
| WindowsPhone7 | Im not a dev.. so dont ask me :p | 22:07 |
| WindowsPhone7 | I'm just a end user | 22:07 |
| _trine | hey you're all going windows :P | 22:08 |
| WindowsPhone7 | though I rly love to tweak all stuff | 22:08 |
| Juozapas | _trine: :DD | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | Per_n900, no one's stopping you from doing that | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | most of the users here are on #meego | 22:08 |
| _trine | nokia must have gone completely mad | 22:08 |
| uhsf | i think it shouldn't be considered as trolling here to say that meego is the one to look forward to. unless one already has a Nxxx device there is absolutely no point in maemo anymore | 22:08 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: what did you do :( | 22:09 |
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| _trine | its wasnt a burning oil rig they jumped off it must have been a transatlantic airliner | 22:09 |
| Per_n900 | MohammadAG: I know, but why is maemo the better choice? Its just a question. | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, nothing, yet :P | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, trying out gtk | 22:10 |
| WindowsPhone7 | Maemo has better multitasking if you aks me | 22:10 |
| WindowsPhone7 | ask* | 22:10 |
| andre__ | Per_n900, Maemo in a working state. MeeGo is not. ;-) | 22:10 |
| andre__ | now. of course. | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | WindowsPhone7, that's just a UI | 22:10 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: I mean by telling about #meego here =) | 22:10 |
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| WindowsPhone7 | MohammadAG: UI is important if u ask me | 22:10 |
| pupnik | uhsf: maemo is supported | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | I'd rant about RPM vs deb, but meh | 22:10 |
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| MohammadAG | I should rant about MeeGo vs Android vs iOS vs WP7 | 22:11 |
| javispedro | Meego, what Meego? | 22:11 |
| WindowsPhone7 | vs RIM | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | WindowsPhone7, port hildon, UI fixed | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, ha | 22:11 |
| uhsf | today's news is a big hurt for Meego, but it still represents the best hope for an open mobile OS with Intel and some others. such a big hurt that I suggest changing Meego's name to wash up it's tainted Nokian origins | 22:11 |
| WindowsPhone7 | MohammadAG: there was some project going on | 22:11 |
| WindowsPhone7 | porting hildon to meego | 22:12 |
| WindowsPhone7 | afaik | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | I know | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | Cordia | 22:12 |
| javispedro | uhsf: meego was a intel trademark, so that would be stupid. | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | I suggest you stop trolling #meego | 22:12 |
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| skython | Many nokia employees aren't happy with the decition, maybe they should do the same like the people in egypt ^^ | 22:13 |
| *** WindowsPhone7 is now known as HtheB | 22:13 | |
| javispedro | Nokia should hire Mubarak? | 22:13 |
| javispedro | I heard he's looking for a new job. | 22:14 |
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| skython | no, they should stop working and stuff | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | no, they should send Elop to company Mubarak | 22:14 |
| villager | wasn't Intel's project called Moblin before it got renamed to Meego when it merged with Nokia's stuff? | 22:14 |
| RST38h | javispedro: What a wonderful idea! | 22:15 |
| uhsf | pupnik: even if maemo still has some sort of support, we have to admit maemo is dying along with Nxxx devices as there are no successors in sight | 22:15 |
| skython | villager: meego was meant to be a merge of moblin and maemo | 22:15 |
| javispedro | uhsf: by that logic, meego is dying. | 22:15 |
| pupnik | uhsf: you are dying too | 22:15 |
| javispedro | hey RST38h =) | 22:16 |
| villager | skython: yeah that's what I was saying? | 22:16 |
| pupnik | uhsf: you understand now why that's senseless trolling? | 22:16 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Make Mubarak head of developers' relations | 22:16 |
| pupnik | you convey no information | 22:16 |
| pupnik | heh | 22:16 |
| skython | yeah, but it's not quite moblin, it's not just a rename | 22:16 |
| javispedro | he would probably do it better than whoever Microsoft would put there. | 22:17 |
| javispedro | at least Mubarak would offer us some CONTINUITY... | 22:17 |
| villager | skython: ok, I can admit poor wording | 22:17 |
| skython | lol | 22:17 |
| RST38h | javispedro: He would at least notbe spewing marketing garbage at us | 22:17 |
| uhsf | my point is meego is "less" dying than maemo, because it still has Intel and others to hope for new devices. after my N900 dies, maemo is going nowhere 'cause i can't run it on any hardware, that's no trolling, just facts | 22:18 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Just glare evilly | 22:18 |
| villager | but point is anyway... if the nokia part is gone, then meego can perhaps go back to being moblin | 22:18 |
| villager | moblin was a better name | 22:18 |
| javispedro | let's ask the Anonymous guys to ddos nokia.com | 22:19 |
| Per_n900 | I hate to be a schmuck@but I kind of agree with uhsf :) | 22:19 |
| javispedro | yet another marvelous idea. | 22:19 |
| skython | how is the hardware support atm for meego on the n900 ? are the closed source modules from nokia working there already? | 22:19 |
| RST38h | what is the point?they will disconnect nokia.com and make it point to microsoft.com pretty soon now=) | 22:20 |
| Juozapas | ;]] | 22:20 |
| javispedro | microsoft.com/hardware ;) | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | microsoft.com/weego | 22:21 |
| javispedro | maybe a mouse/keyboard manufacturer is what Nokia expects to be in two year. | 22:21 |
| javispedro | s. | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, will they run linux? | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG | or will the mice run symbian and run out of memory | 22:22 |
| javispedro | they will not be compatible with linux. | 22:22 |
| RST38h | -14.89% | 22:22 |
| javispedro | whatever they run is unimportant. | 22:22 |
| HtheB | -17,8 over here | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG | -9000 here | 22:23 |
| RST38h | doesn't look like investors agree with the new ceo | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, who does? | 22:23 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: that was a body count. | 22:23 |
| HtheB | I hope the guys from Myriad will release their stuff soon... So we can at least enjoy sme Android apps :( | 22:23 |
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| MohammadAG | If I was CEO I would've announced MeeGo devices, doubled the pay so devs work double time, release the device next month max | 22:24 |
| RST38h | Which is why you are not a CEO | 22:24 |
| HtheB | MohammadAG for president! | 22:24 |
| RST38h | CEOs do not operate in such concrete terms =) | 22:24 |
| lolloo | hehe | 22:24 |
| lolloo | i vote yes | 22:24 |
| chx | well, Nokia got into an impossible situation | 22:25 |
| MohammadAG | that's how a platform on fire fixes itself, not by spending $4b+ on R&D that results in WP7, which was R&D'd by Microsoft | 22:25 |
| javispedro | http://investors.nokia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=107224&p=irol-stockchart | 22:25 |
| RST38h | Instead, they cultivate an ecosystem, ponder paradigms, and raise internal competition | 22:25 |
| javispedro | official nokia tickets there | 22:25 |
| lolloo | guys I still cant get this to work on my N900 it says media format not supported. | 22:26 |
| lolloo | http://www.rapee3.com/tv/aleslah.php | 22:26 |
| HtheB | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg | 22:26 |
| HtheB | this just makes me cry :( | 22:26 |
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| lolloo | I have done everything. installed codecs | 22:26 |
| HtheB | let's just thumb down that video | 22:27 |
| * _trine installs nice picture of Bill on his N900 | 22:27 | |
| HtheB | Bill? | 22:27 |
| HtheB | Bill Gates? :p | 22:27 |
| HtheB | whos bill anyway :p | 22:28 |
| _trine | this story must have come from the 'you cant make it up department' | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | I wouldn't worry about competition if I were Nokia | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | trying to catch up when you're last isn't hard | 22:29 |
| _trine | if someone had have suggested that the new nokia OS was going to be windows 7 last week they would have been carting you off to the lunatic asylum | 22:30 |
| RST38h | peoplesuggested that before | 22:30 |
| _trine | but as they say a week ia a long time in politics | 22:31 |
| _trine | /ia/is | 22:31 |
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| HtheB | HAHAHHAHHA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaETGNpvpNM | 22:31 |
| HtheB | :D | 22:31 |
| HtheB | lol reactions | 22:31 |
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| RST38h | Nokia workers mourn death of Symbian, thousands walk out | 22:31 |
| RST38h | http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-workers-mourn-death-of-symbian-thousands-walk-out/ | 22:32 |
| javispedro | seems that the finland gov. already says they're going to intervene | 22:32 |
| javispedro | http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/02/pekkarinen_government_help_for_nokia_job_cuts_2357245.html | 22:33 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: will they convict Elop of crimes against the state and execute him? Do finns execute foreign spies? =) | 22:33 |
| RST38h | Or maybe they will swap him for Linus Torvalds? =) | 22:33 |
| HtheB | bend him over! | 22:34 |
| javispedro | RST38h: they're just going to name him a national hero and erect some statues | 22:34 |
| LjL | uh... i reflashed my new N810. before reflashing, my Power button gave options such as "Reboot" and "Soft off", now there's no trace of those. also, now when the screen is off the LED flashes, it didn't do that before. how come? O.o | 22:36 |
| LjL | new=used | 22:36 |
| Dhraakellian | hmm | 22:36 |
| javispedro | they will no longer have to worry about those pesky new technologies | 22:37 |
| Dhraakellian | so, if Nokia were to drop MeeGo Handset, would we get an actual rpm/zypper-based MeeGo phone from someone else? | 22:37 |
| RST38h | yea, nobody ever got fired for buying into microsoft products! | 22:37 |
| * Dhraakellian , being an openSUSE user, would lik that | 22:38 | |
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| Dhraakellian | "No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft" ...except possibly Elop, we hope | 22:38 |
| ieatlint | RST38h: remember, elop is canadian, not american.. you can't blame us for this one | 22:38 |
| Dhraakellian | ieatlint: ⁵! | 22:38 |
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| RST38h | ieatlint: Wait, whom should I blame? Americans or Canadians? | 22:38 |
| javispedro | technically, canada is in america =) | 22:39 |
| Dhraakellian | "blame canada"? | 22:39 |
| ieatlint | canadians, always canadians | 22:39 |
| ieatlint | quebec if possible | 22:39 |
| * RST38h considers, then blames damned Anglosaxons for all the evil | 22:39 | |
| ieatlint | you can blame us for meego though, we do have intel | 22:40 |
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| RST38h | Americans, Canadians, who cares | 22:40 |
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| ieatlint | i suspect we'll have a better idea on monday of how dead meego is | 22:40 |
| RST38h | Idiocy has no citizenship, race, or gender | 22:40 |
| javispedro | ieatlint: why? | 22:41 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: but it has wealth. economic wealth. | 22:41 |
| RST38h | As I said, one can just as well throw together a completely free mobile apps pack in QML/QtQuick | 22:41 |
| ieatlint | javispedro: because that's when the spring meego conference was due to open its registration and cfp | 22:41 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Sometimes. More often, it is just idiocy. | 22:41 |
| crashanddie | http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=6802 | 22:42 |
| RST38h | Will take 3-4 months. Won't be as extensive as anything from Nokia, but at least will be easier to get around and fix bugs | 22:42 |
| javispedro | sadly, estimating it would take only 3-4 months is probably why we're on doomsday today. | 22:42 |
| RST38h | javispedro: nope | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Doing this for free on your own time, without several layers of management is somewhat different from what Meego has | 22:43 |
| javispedro | ok. | 22:43 |
| RST38h | javispedro: First of all, you can do it ad hoc, then quickly discuss the designs and change them on the fly | 22:43 |
| RST38h | javispedro: No design documents, no guidelines, no ux people | 22:44 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Yes, it will be way less professional. But faster. | 22:44 |
| javispedro | good point. | 22:44 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Secondly, I suggest choosing something like QML from the start. | 22:44 |
| RST38h | javispedro: It allows prototyping UI quickly | 22:45 |
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| * javispedro is at this point more sold at anya (webos ui framework) than qml | 22:45 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: As we already know what core apps are needed (address book, messaging view, mail view, calendar, settings), there is no need to spend time defining this part | 22:45 |
| RST38h | enya | 22:45 |
| javispedro | yep | 22:46 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Thirdly, we can drop all the evil parts, such as Tracker and connect to some lighter backends instead | 22:46 |
| RST38h | javispedro: preferably with DBus, basically making various UI elements do dbus calls and show results | 22:47 |
| RST38h | javispedro: again, won't be as solid as Maemo/Meego stuff, but way faster to implement | 22:47 |
| javispedro | Yeah. | 22:47 |
| javispedro | However. | 22:47 |
| flailingmonkey | I think that defining things would be actually helpful, but shouldn't block putting together rough/usable first drafts either | 22:47 |
| javispedro | See FHS | 22:48 |
| RST38h | javispedro: And there won't be core OS to take care about, this can run on any Linux distro | 22:48 |
| javispedro | /OpenMoko. | 22:48 |
| javispedro | or GPE | 22:48 |
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| RST38h | Well,GPE has been a success of sorts | 22:48 |
| RST38h | OpenMoko was a clusterfuck due to mismanagement and general fanaticism of developers (see our friend PaulFertser answering calls from emacs on his mokophone) | 22:49 |
| APTX | http://images.4chan.org/g/src/1297452123406.png | 22:49 |
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| RST38h | If you are doing this with the main goal of FINISHING and SELLING or at least promoting the end result, you will have more chance of success | 22:49 |
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| javispedro | not sure. | 22:50 |
| javispedro | I've seen one-man suites before, and they all usually suck. | 22:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The OM problem wasn't the devs. It was themanagment. | 22:51 |
| Per_n900 | RST38h: I like the part that it will run on any distro. | 22:51 |
| RST38h | javispedro: so you do not make it like those suites | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | They made various poor calls throughout. | 22:51 |
| RST38h | javispedro: you model it on Maemo5 to begin with | 22:51 |
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| javispedro | that might be a good plan. | 22:51 |
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| javispedro | reusing maemo's ui basically. | 22:52 |
| RST38h | javispedro: it may not be ideal, but it is perfectly usable in terms of layout | 22:52 |
| RST38h | your UI elements will comefrom QtQuick components, you won;t be drawing your own | 22:52 |
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| RST38h | Hell, I have just done about 1/3 of this job. In PHP/HTML (!) | 22:54 |
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| RST38h | Alone, in about 1 week, between other jobs | 22:54 |
| javispedro | I have to agree that PIM stuff doesn't seem horribly hard | 22:54 |
| RST38h | So it cannot be all that bad | 22:54 |
| javispedro | also | 22:54 |
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| javispedro | the code for the Pilot PIM applications is basically leaked, | 22:54 |
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| javispedro | and it's pure C, über fast engine. | 22:54 |
| RST38h | yea,but you will probably needmore modern backend | 22:55 |
| javispedro | which I always wanted to use as a base for something =) | 22:55 |
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| RST38h | something built on SQL,with sqlite as default storage + option to use remote sql server | 22:55 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: But something *simple*, as there are no resources to build another sandcastle like Tracker | 22:58 |
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| javispedro | tracker was not built though | 22:58 |
| javispedro | it was reused | 22:58 |
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| RST38h | servicing a sandcastle also takes time =) | 23:00 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: And causes abrasion to sensitive regions. | 23:00 |
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| RST38h | COnstant abrasion, yes, I am scratching all over | 23:01 |
| pupnik | i like RST38h's comments this evening | 23:01 |
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| * javispedro used to use GarnetVM as PIM on the N810 | 23:04 | |
| RST38h | urgh... | 23:04 |
| javispedro | so there's some levels of suckiness I'm willing to accept | 23:04 |
| javispedro | =9 | 23:04 |
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| RST38h | Palm's core apps were pretty well thought out | 23:05 |
| RST38h | But still, using that 160x160 stuff nowadays... | 23:05 |
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| javispedro | well the only use I can see for the extra pixels is ... eye candy. | 23:05 |
| RST38h | more data! | 23:06 |
| jacekowski | so anybody up to date with recent events | 23:07 |
| jacekowski | where are we standing? | 23:07 |
| RST38h | on a burning platform? =) | 23:07 |
| Juozapas | nokia sold us ? | 23:07 |
| merlin1991 | nono | 23:07 |
| javispedro | on a burning platform with a shiny microsoft logo | 23:08 |
| merlin1991 | RST38h, we are jumping from the burning platform | 23:08 |
| RST38h | merlin: You are. | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | less indirectly | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | so what is happening | 23:08 |
| jacekowski | there will be no n9-00 | 23:09 |
| jacekowski | but there will be n9-01? | 23:09 |
| GAN900 | Burn it all with fire. | 23:09 |
| Juozapas | jacekowski: who cares? it will be with windows | 23:09 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: to save you some googling, Symbian set on a timer of about 1-2 years, Meego politely called a "learning tool", and WP& called the main smartphone platform at Nokia | 23:09 |
| javispedro | jacekowski: I wouldn't put my finger on anything like that. pre-fire, n9-01 was the keyboardless model. | 23:09 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, there'll probably be both with WP7. | 23:09 |
| jacekowski | N9 with windows? | 23:09 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: Other small news include more changes to the Nokia management and mass layoffs | 23:10 |
| GAN900 | I keep getting closer and closer to rage mode whenever I think about it. | 23:10 |
| jacekowski | crap | 23:10 |
| jacekowski | so htc will be android OEM | 23:10 |
| merlin1991 | and there is a sidenote about a meego "device" at the end of this year | 23:10 |
| RST38h | + there is a photoshop-worthy picture of Elop and Ballmer...eh....eloping together | 23:10 |
| jacekowski | and nokia will be windows phone 7 oem | 23:10 |
| LjL | uh... i reflashed my new (used) N810. before reflashing, my Power button gave options such as "Reboot" and "Soft off", now there's no trace of those. also, the screen doesn't turn off immediately when i lock, like it did before, long-pressing Power doesn't ask for a confirmation before shutting down, and when the screen is off the LED flashes, it didn't do that before. how come? i assume the previous owner did something, but what? O.o | 23:11 |
| RST38h | GAN900: You can't go to the rage mode, you are working with customers! | 23:11 |
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| jacekowski | hmm, that really sucks | 23:11 |
| jacekowski | lot of open source work and platform that was quite close to being usable just went down a drain | 23:11 |
| jacekowski | what about intel-nokia partnership with meego? | 23:12 |
| RST38h | yes, you can mourn now | 23:12 |
| javispedro | well it didn't went down a drain. it will just never be used. | 23:12 |
| jacekowski | javispedro: that's same thing | 23:12 |
| javispedro | but if you're fanatic enough, you get to use it! | 23:12 |
| javispedro | "Everybody come to the communication meeting Friday! Oh, and you might want to pack up your personal belongings and bring them, just in case." | 23:13 |
| pupnik | LjL: what did you flash with? | 23:14 |
| RST38h | javispedro: There is a fire alarm, and whoever can't get back to the building with his RFID card has been laid off! | 23:14 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, don't I know it. | 23:14 |
| LjL | pupnik: the official image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php | 23:14 |
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| GAN900 | If anybody tries to shoplift today, there will be blood. | 23:14 |
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| * javispedro shoplifts a WP7 phone | 23:15 | |
| * federico2 shopstairs | 23:16 | |
| LjL | pupnik: latest one, of course | 23:16 |
| pupnik | LjL: i don't recall what mine did - perhaps the previous owner used a different OS version | 23:16 |
| DrGrov | I think just for the fun of it I will get the HTC Trophy 7 | 23:17 |
| DrGrov | And manhandle the living hell out of it | 23:17 |
| LjL | pupnik: no, it was the same version number, i checked... | 23:17 |
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| merlin1991 | hm tea-party in #meego | 23:17 |
| LjL | pupnik: i've found out that you can enabled Soft off and Reboot by editing a file in /etc/systemui (or somewhere), but that doesn't explain the rest of the behaviors. i guess i can always try asking the seller | 23:17 |
| javispedro | " Reading through the Microsoft-Nokia press release gave me flashbacks of the IBM-Apple deal that produced Taligent. The wording, the vagueness of the details, and the miasma of mild desperation clinging to both partners is very familiar." | 23:18 |
| pupnik | management never fires the management, do they ;) | 23:19 |
| RST38h | unfortunately. | 23:19 |
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| pupnik | my vision for a high-end nokia phone would be linux-based, that can run webOS and Android apps | 23:20 |
| pupnik | and maemo5 | 23:20 |
| DrGrov | Is there any chance that the board of directors could eventually fire Elop, that rat bastard? | 23:21 |
| RST38h | Ask the board! =) | 23:21 |
| DrGrov | I can't ask the board LL | 23:21 |
| DrGrov | lol | 23:21 |
| korhojoa | pupnik: a vmware hypervisor and what ever os you want? | 23:21 |
| RST38h | Then do not ask US stupid questions. | 23:21 |
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| DrGrov | RST38h: Well, nice fucking mood your're in. | 23:22 |
| DrGrov | *you're | 23:22 |
| pupnik | korhojoa: no, not virtual machines - linux | 23:22 |
| RST38h | True | 23:22 |
| javispedro | hey, it's doomsday. | 23:22 |
| korhojoa | pupnik: but vm's would be nice. | 23:23 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Fire in the circus! | 23:23 |
| pupnik | korhojoa: have you tried dosbox? | 23:23 |
| Tukanfan | are there any big differences between Maemo 5 and WebOS 2.0? | 23:24 |
| jacekowski | yes | 23:24 |
| jacekowski | X | 23:24 |
| RST38h | All the clowns are on fire! They run around the arena and ignite the audience! | 23:24 |
| jacekowski | any news on alien dalvik? | 23:24 |
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| javispedro | the only top executive gone is curiously the meego one. | 23:26 |
| javispedro | btw | 23:27 |
| javispedro | HP just said also that they're not making any more WM/WP stuff. | 23:27 |
| javispedro | HP was at least once the biggest WM licensee iirc. | 23:27 |
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| javispedro | basically, Nokia is now the only WP7 licensee of any importance left. | 23:32 |
| GAN900 | I wish webOS were viable. | 23:32 |
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| RST38h | YOu do not yet know if WebOS is viable or not | 23:33 |
| RST38h | Give it 6 months | 23:33 |
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| javispedro | webOS is not viable either imho, but it will at least be here for the next two years. | 23:34 |
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| javispedro | plenty of time | 23:34 |
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| javispedro | (i do not see it ever getting ahead of its current position in market share...) | 23:35 |
| javispedro | which will probably and ironically be higher than wp7's (it is now =) ) | 23:35 |
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| jacekowski | HP has a lot of funds from other sources to keep that platform running | 23:37 |
| jacekowski | nokia, not really | 23:37 |
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| javispedro | which is a good thing because they're yet to make a profit for hp =) | 23:38 |
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| ieatlint | webos has a larger dev community and (i believe) application base than wp7 | 23:39 |
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| Franciman | hello | 23:40 |
| anidel | ubt they're both very nice OSes... both good alternatives to Android and iOS if one doesn't fancy either/// | 23:40 |
| Franciman | guys what's a good alternative to Eclipse/ESBox to develop Maemo 5 applications ? | 23:42 |
| merlin1991 | depends on what you want to use | 23:42 |
| javispedro | Everytime I see it I still think it's funny they decided to abandon what currently is #1 platform in share for what currently is #10 platform in share =) | 23:42 |
| merlin1991 | if you hopped on the qt train, it'd say qt-creator | 23:42 |
| javispedro | clearly, management was on drugs. | 23:42 |
| FIQ | >.>? | 23:43 |
| FIQ | no meego? | 23:43 |
| merlin1991 | s/it'd/I'd/ | 23:43 |
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| RST38h | ok, sleep time | 23:43 |
| pupnik | cu | 23:43 |
| javispedro | yeah | 23:43 |
| Franciman | merlin1991 , I'd like to start with gtkmm before | 23:44 |
| javispedro | time to say goodbye and thanks for the fish | 23:44 |
| javispedro | and the last one out please take out the lights =) | 23:44 |
| pupnik | cu javispedro | 23:44 |
| javispedro | cya | 23:44 |
| FIQ | ok, i will use my n900 until it gives up, then changing platform. >_> | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, R&D'd drugs, normal ones don't do this much damage | 23:45 |
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| merlin1991 | Franciman, I don't think you have much alternatives in this case, you might try code::blocks, or use something like vim, joe, emacs | 23:46 |
| Franciman | ok , and where can I find a good tutorial on setting up the environment ? | 23:47 |
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| merlin1991 | for the cross-compiler and emulator see http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation | 23:52 |
| uhsf | FIQ: same. but the high price I paid for my N900 meant for me that I expected to use it for at least ~5years. I would expect things to get better in the open mobile world since then. to me it's only annoying to see the situation deteriorate so badly for the platform i chose to give my money to. | 23:52 |
| merlin1991 | Franciman, also check out http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide | 23:52 |
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| Franciman | ok thanks very much merlin1991 | 23:53 |
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