IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-01-22

mtnbkranyone know of any other "smart" phones that have Native SIP support like maemo on N900 does?   Such as HTC EVO? Got an Asterisk system here and a worker with an HTC Evo, looking for options, or another phone for him00:00
ieatlinti beleive some symbian phones do00:00
MohammadAGthe N95 did00:01
MohammadAGand the E6600:01
jacekowskisymbian phones00:01
jacekowskiand n90000:01
MohammadAGI think the N86 has it too00:01
jacekowskinothing from any other manufacturer00:01
jacekowskiand sip sucks00:01
MohammadAGlol00:01
mtnbkrso, hisHTC EVO will need the sipdroid app as I have been sseing then, or he needs a new phone   lol00:02
ieatlintyou came in here to ask how to get sip support on your [friend's] android phone? :P00:02
mtnbkrieatlint: lol00:02
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mtnbkrand/or to find out if I need to buy him an N90000:03
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pahartikmtnbkr: There is no IPv6 support in SIP client provided by Maemo 500:06
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PaulyMohammadAG: i can take screenshots!00:11
trumeemtnbkr, sip is horrible on N90000:12
trumeejacekowski, sucks on N900 but awesome on N9500:12
shamussip is not that bad on the n800 but still bad00:12
Paulyi forgot how 2 take scrrenshots shift ctrl p?00:12
trumeemtnbkr, sip calls is very choppy on N90000:12
jacekowskisip sucks00:13
trumeejacekowski, on N900 it does00:13
shamusamen sip by it's very nature on the protical levle sucks00:13
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MohammadAGPauly, I know the font is different, sure it's the S60 one?00:13
trumeeshamus, dont care about protocol level. but its implementations on N900 is shitty00:14
shamuscrapy protocols == crapy clients?00:14
trumeeNokia and its partners didnt do a very good job, lcuk ^^00:14
shamusyeah yeah sip is every where but it hates nats00:15
shamussip hates my network like the pleg00:15
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trumeeshamus, there are ways to sort out nat00:15
shamusport forwarding?00:16
trumeeshamus, stun server00:16
ShadowJKif the network makes you constantly switch between 3g and 3.5g, a ping running in the background with suitable size and interval will force it on 3.5 :)00:16
ShadowJKThe thresholds some operators use for upgrading you to 3.5 are kinda close to the tiny amount SIP uses for voice..00:17
DocScrutinizeraiui there's no such thing like switching to 3.500:17
ShadowJKthere is a 1500msec burst of latency when it does switch :-)00:18
ShadowJK(operator dependent)00:18
pahartiktrumee: Best way to solve "NAT problem" is to throw IPv4 away00:18
DocScrutinizerit's like 3g is the established call and 3.5 gets signalled whenever you shout loud enough00:19
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DocScrutinizeror technically, 3.5 is a dynamic property of 3G, not a new connection mode00:20
* shamus is stuck with ipv4 as dam isp refiueses to upgrade to ipv6 and even if they did out cable modem probly is not compatable00:20
lcuktrumee, ?00:21
Pauly<MohammadAG>00:21
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* shamus has never been able to make a sip call from the home network. i can use sip just fine at school but not at home00:22
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trumeelcuk, collabora needs to do some thorough testing of sip on N90000:23
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trumeeshamus, nat issues?00:24
MohammadAGyes?00:24
MohammadAGalterego, ping00:24
shamusyeah thats my guess00:24
Paulysry noob question cant find default scratchbox location trying to show screenshot?00:24
Paulysaved in sdk00:24
MohammadAGachipa, who's decision was it to remove the skip packaging step? :)00:24
ShadowJKof the 3 network operators here, latency in 3g (plain wcdma, network has decided it's not worth to have you on hsdpa): 268, 272, 295.  Minimum amount of data to provoke upgrade from WCDMA to HSPA: 498, 255, 32. Amount of idle time on HSPA before downgrade to WCDMA, seconds: 8, 3, 5. Latency at switchover wcdma -> hsdpa: 1290, 880, 1210 ms00:24
MohammadAG/scratchbox/users/username/home/user/00:25
ShadowJKand latency on hspa: 63, 72, 14800:25
trumeeshamus, define a stun server in N90000:25
MohammadAGI know the font is different00:25
MohammadAGyou don't have to show me a screenshot00:25
achipaMohammadAG: Ididntdoit... but honestly, no idea - I'm not happy with those 'don't X before Y' options that are supposed to (but don't quite) replace that stuff00:25
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bash`hi guys00:26
* shamus has a stun autodetect enableds and it dose not work00:26
Pauly<MohammadAG: oh ok any idea why00:26
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bash`I need to install rootsh without root access :P how to do it?00:26
MohammadAGnope00:26
trumeeshamus, i never had issues with nat over wifi or 3g. but i run my own * server00:26
MohammadAGapplication manager00:26
ShadowJKThe bigger wakeup threshold (498 bytes) for my operator means that N900 stays on WCDMA most of the time if I just have irc going.. though if irc is very active it'll go into hspa and eat 300 - 400 mA for a minimum 8seconds after last activity:(00:26
Paulyid like for the the real n900 to use the s60 font for browser any idea how?00:27
MohammadAGor set R&D mode00:27
bash`my friend has a n900 without internet access, but with the rootsh.deb file00:27
MohammadAGclick on the file00:27
MohammadAGwith the file manager00:27
bash`really it works?00:27
MohammadAGshould00:27
bash`trying now00:27
* shamus has no acess to the house router to adjust settings and has not set up a stun server00:27
MohammadAGif that doesn't work, there's always red pill mode00:27
trumeeshamus, you can use public stun servers00:27
DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsdpa00:28
* shamus has tryed the ekiga one and no joy00:28
trumeeshamus, there is quite a big list at voip-info.org00:28
shamusok00:28
bash`MohammadAG: thank you very much :)00:28
MohammadAGit worked?00:28
bash`yes00:28
MohammadAGand yw :)00:28
MohammadAG:)00:29
MohammadAGachipa, I'm back on 2.0, editing the control and changelog files doesn't change the deb name00:29
trumeeshamus, worst performance i have found is two N900s talking to each other00:29
trumeeshamus, with * in between00:30
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, hey if the radio protocol doesn't require you to stay in wcdma most of the time, or enforce the high latency burst when switching to hspa, or enforce the gigantic energy consumption when in hspa mode with low latency available, then by all means go make a modem that works like that :P00:30
ShadowJKIn the meanwhile I'm just saying what I myself have observed and what others have observed of how these modems work :P00:30
MohammadAGqt creator will try to copy it from somewhere else, and of course, fail00:30
achipaMohammadAG: ? not sure how that's possible... maybe it gets overwritten ? there is now this smart versioning (=UI) in the run config...00:30
achipadon't ask why run builds packages...00:31
ShadowJKThere even exists scripts for 3g routers that automatically try to discover the minimum amount of traffic required to maintain hspa, so that you can click a button on the web interface and activate low latency for your skype and what not :)00:31
MohammadAGachipa, I know, I edited the files through there, it still looks for the old name00:31
MohammadAGit should read control file, not project name00:31
PaulyMohammadAG; DocScrutinizer: thanks guys you always help me with my noobish questions i know im not a real developer or anything close but i am learning things and one day when i know enough i will be but thanks 4 everything00:32
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achipaagreed, but... madde should do just that00:32
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achipai.e. it's still debtools deep down in it's ravaged and soon to be rpmified soul...00:33
MohammadAGPauly, you're welcome00:33
MohammadAGachipa, true, but it's Qt Creator running steps, not MADDE00:34
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PaulyMohammadAG: i think im in here almost everyday asking something stupid lol00:34
MohammadAGyou don't wanna read logs to see what I used to ask00:35
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PaulyMohammadAG: well i usally read the wiki and search forums or google before i come to ask something on here i was suprised that i acually compiled a qt app and it ran on n900! nevr done anything like that :)00:37
achipaMohammadAG: it's a weird mix :) in any case, if you feel it's  a bug, poke me on monday... can't look at it right now00:37
achipaalso didn't forget about the merge request, just was a busy day :S00:38
MohammadAGno worries00:38
achipa(hope to have some docs on how to direct-deploy in the FN wiki next week)00:38
MohammadAGPauly, you'll learn a lot - if you want to :)00:38
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MohammadAGI know I did, thanks to the community00:38
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so the modem needs a lick to switch to 3.5? that's new to me00:39
DocScrutinizerkick*00:39
ShadowJKIt depends on the operator00:39
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DocScrutinizerthat's even more strange00:39
DocScrutinizerI alwys thought the modem enters 3.5 mode automatically00:40
ShadowJKMine needs 498 bytes before switching. Another one needs 32 (so that's basically just any traffic at all)00:40
MohammadAGa lick might work too00:40
MohammadAGhas to be acidic though00:40
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* MohammadAG sits back - gets popcorn - gets ready to read N9 rumor thread00:40
ShadowJKin 3.5 mode my N900 eats massive amounts of power even for the 8 seconds or so of no data moving before it goes down to wcdma00:41
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ShadowJKif data got moved through wcdma instead of hsdpa, the power consumption is smaller and goes down to "idle" faster too00:42
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jacekowskiyou can probably cook popcorn on n900 that's OCed and in 3.5G00:42
MohammadAGpopcorn? pfft, steak ftw00:43
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pupnikleave an irc client running while playing emulators on a train...00:44
jacekowskirotfl00:45
pupnik:)00:45
jacekowskihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_cKTw8cB78&feature=player_embedded00:45
jacekowskihellium "overdose"00:45
pupnikwe are wasting helium in a criminal way right now00:45
shamusim guesign i have a symmetric NAT00:45
MohammadAGo_O00:45
MohammadAGat least she fell in a good way00:46
keriowtf does that mean00:46
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DocScrutinizeraiui the BTS is free to allow the modem to use a special channel ( HS-DSCH  (High Speed Downlink Shared Channel)) and the MT has to send Channel Quality Indicator, CQI frequently. That's why 3(.5)G keeps eating power for several seconds, even when not sending or rcvng data00:46
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MohammadAGshe didn't hit her head :p00:46
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ShadowJKOh I thought that was just the cdma part of it00:47
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shamusok that might be part of my issue i had two routers bother with nat enabled and was on the iner most one00:51
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shamusnope still nota no luck conecting to sip00:53
DocScrutinizershamus: NAT and SIP don't play together nicely, without additional force. You frequently need STUN, and often even that's not enough and your SIP-carrier needs to provide hosted NAT traversal00:53
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DocScrutinizer(or whatever it's called)00:53
shamusyey sip and nat == pain in the ass even with stun00:54
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DocScrutinizerdepemds on the NAT. STUN usually works great for all but symmetric NAT (aka IP and port aware NAT), and it detects sym NAT reliably00:55
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RapakHello00:55
shamussemtric ugh00:55
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shamusand i think the home router is not set up for port awareness00:56
RapakI have a problem with my N900 and I would appreciate some help. I was sending a sms when my touch screen just froze. I restarted the phone but the problem stays. I can't set my lock code. The question is how can I access the phones memory trough computer? I would love to have my contacts etc out from the phone.00:57
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shamusit's a stock wtr45g v2 but i cant change the settings on it as it has been password protected and i have no clue how it's set up00:59
DocScrutinizershamus: some routers are set up not to allow local loopback, means a pkg addressed to the public IP of the NAT from LAN won't go back to the corresponding IP:port of LAN00:59
shamusahh01:00
DocScrutinizerit that case STUN detects a sym NAT even though there isn't - technically01:00
ShadowJKwrt54g needs the occasional reboot too01:00
shamusno were near as often as the dam helken01:01
* shamus is conecting to the belkin wifi router witch is hooked up to the same network as the wrt45g witch is hooked up to the cable modem01:02
DocScrutinizershamus: e.g ZyXEL routers do this01:02
MohammadAGwrt54g owners run stock?01:02
MohammadAGseriously? it's a hacker's router :p01:03
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DocScrutinizeryou can switch that shit off (enable local loopback) via telnet - for ZyXEL01:03
shamusi know but it's my dads01:03
shamusand he passowred protected it01:03
MohammadAGpin + pin hole = win01:03
DocScrutinizermoh loves to talk gibberish01:04
DocScrutinizer:-P01:04
shamuspin + pin hole == wooping joking but still he is very anil when it come to netowrk setup01:04
psycho_oreosmake a deal with him so that you paid for his router and is legally yours and he gets to choose a router of equivalent price01:04
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it's the settings reset hole01:04
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MohammadAGclears password01:05
DocScrutinizershamus: see if UPnP is enabled01:05
shamusdoubt ity prity sure i tryed that already01:05
shamusthe firmwere has not been updated in years if ever01:05
MohammadAGE7 looks sexy01:06
shamusso tempted to shove a hombrewe firm were on on as tell dad to bite me01:06
psycho_oreosshamus, make a deal with him so that you paid for his router and is legally yours and he gets to choose a router of equivalent price01:06
MohammadAGheh01:06
DocScrutinizeraaah - btw: many routers have an ALG, an Application Layer Gateway, means they run a proxy for SIP, and that more often than not is fubar01:06
DocScrutinizeryou should disable it if there's any, and also you chould change 5060 to e.g 506601:07
DocScrutinizercould*01:07
MohammadAGsuggestions for mid-range slightly advanced phones?01:08
shamusyeah yeah well techinicly it's the familys router but he is the so call network god of the house01:08
MohammadAG5530 looks nice01:08
DocScrutinizer5060 -> 5066 is a client side thing01:09
DocScrutinizerbypassing ALG01:09
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DocScrutinizerall common SIP providers support SIP n other than port 5060 as well01:09
DocScrutinizerthe ALG however won't detect 5066 as SIP01:10
jonwilanyone know the package name of the phone dialer app?01:10
DocScrutinizerhaha01:10
DocScrutinizernope, sorry01:11
DocScrutinizerrtcom-dialer-ui is the process name01:11
shamusjonwil: dialcentral?01:11
DocScrutinizerand binary01:11
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DocScrutinizershamus: BS01:11
MohammadAGsame package name prolly01:11
shamusoh shit that rthe google voice one01:12
DocScrutinizerjonwil: a apt-cache search should reveal it then01:12
jonwilwhatever it is, it should appear in the dependancies list of telepathy-ring since it depends on it01:12
jonwilor not01:12
luke-jr[18:09:49] <DocScrutinizer> all common SIP providers support SIP n other than port 5060 as well01:12
DocScrutinizerprolly not01:12
luke-jrwhat⁇⁇?/01:12
luke-jrI haven't seen *any* that do that01:12
DocScrutinizertelepathy-ring should be in rdepends of dialer, but not the other way round01:13
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: you probably never tried01:13
shamusin short sip +SOHO == pain but solvable with a bit of poking with a pointy stick01:14
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: nope, I assume they'd document it somewhere01:14
DocScrutinizerthey don't01:15
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, rtcom-call-ui01:15
DocScrutinizeror that :-P01:16
MohammadAGhow didn't I notice that...01:16
DocScrutinizer(sorry, coffee is too thin for me to wake up)01:16
MohammadAGthe description is epic01:16
DocScrutinizertime for 1264843001:16
MohammadAGrtcom-call-ui - RTCom Call UI01:16
MohammadAGso descriptive01:17
DocScrutinizeryeah, shoot them at the wall, with real BS01:17
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DocScrutinizerand I don't mean bullets of frozen BS, I mean lots of stinking warm BS01:18
DocScrutinizerprobably best fired from old cannons01:20
jonwilok, sounds like rtcom-call-ui only talks to telepathy over a dbus interface. That means that if you wanted to implement something that pre-processes phone call requests you could hack telepathy-ring to use a slightly different dbus name then build a translation layer that talks over the real dbus name.01:21
jonwilit looks like its only using dbus anyway01:21
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DocScrutinizeror make that owl shit - might teach them wisdom01:22
jonwilas for GPS, all the secret stuff is in the location-server daemon which is another impossible-to-reverse-engineer blob01:23
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DocScrutinizerbut I guess we can't do that or we'd lose 75% of our gifted developers01:23
DocScrutinizer"pkg: foobar grobbler. Desc: grobbles foobar" seems to be a common practice01:25
DocScrutinizerand for me should become one of the killer criteria of QC01:26
pupnikwow DocScrutinizer - there is no match for regexp grobbler01:26
jonwilso yeah not sure if its worth digging further into GPS/location01:26
pupnikbut that's a fantastic name01:26
DocScrutinizer>>missng comprehensive description -> rm -rf, userdel<<01:27
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DocScrutinizermail $USER -s "your promotion of foobar grobbler got deleted and your accound nuked" you can do better dude, try again!01:30
DocScrutinizeraccount*01:30
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: thanks for update. Yes if that's actually the case that telepathy is completely d-bus based API, then I know we could intercept the dbus msgs, by implementing a proxy or whatever01:34
DocScrutinizeralas dbus has no generic means to intercept and mangle msgs, that I know of01:35
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DocScrutinizerumm, is this session or system bus?01:36
DocScrutinizersession bus would be rather simple01:36
jonwilunsure01:36
DocScrutinizercompared to system01:36
DocScrutinizerhell, we should hack telepathy-ring to support hooks01:37
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DocScrutinizerthe only really proper way to implement this01:37
DocScrutinizererr telepathy at large, not sure about the ring bit01:38
* DocScrutinizer pondering01:40
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DocScrutinizergiven the fact rtcom-call-ui clearly is a session thing (it has a X gui), the dbus call should be session bus01:41
DocScrutinizergiven the fact we got only one non-multitasking modem, it might be system bus as well01:41
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DocScrutinizernah, but several users might use SIP connections concurrently, so clearly session01:42
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jonwilok, so would we need to clone telepathy-ring to add something usefull to this?01:42
DocScrutinizera call always is a session action01:42
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jacekowskii'm looking now at that windows phone01:42
jacekowskiand it's really nice01:42
jonwilor would cloning that be a waste of time?01:43
DocScrutinizerdepends01:43
jacekowskii really hope it would do something to iphone01:43
jonwildepends on what?01:43
DocScrutinizerfor call intercepting it's enough to hack generic telepathy on dbus-interface level, as I gather calls via GSM and calls via SIP are using the same telepathy API, and that's the API we want a hook in it01:44
DocScrutinizeraiui telepathy-ring is the gsm-specific blob01:45
jonwilyes it is01:45
DocScrutinizerunrelated to SIP01:45
jonwilso would it be worth trying to clone?01:45
DocScrutinizerwe want to intercept all calls, not only gsm calls01:45
jonwilok, so we dont need to clone it for anything then01:46
DocScrutinizerprolly not01:46
jonwilI will remove it from my "stuff worth trying to clone" list01:46
jonwilthe only reason its likely closed is that it uses closed dbus interfaces to talk lower in the stack to the CSD daemon01:47
jacekowskiwhat would be the best is do full reverse of modem firmware01:47
jacekowskiand therefore phonet interface01:47
jonwilthats not likely to happen :P01:47
DocScrutinizerhmm, I guess you could ask staff@colabora (lcuk, Robot101) about the reasons it's closed01:47
jacekowskijonwil: that's not exactly precise01:48
jacekowskiwe already know a bit about phonet01:48
MohammadAGwe just need a bit more devs01:48
jacekowskimore time01:48
DocScrutinizerand the signing key01:48
DocScrutinizer:-P01:48
jacekowskiwe don't have to modify it01:48
jacekowskiha01:49
jacekowskii just had an idea01:49
DocScrutinizerok, then it's feasible01:49
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MohammadAGtime?01:49
jacekowskiwhat about trying to flash firmware from other rapuyama based phone01:49
MohammadAGwe have all the time we need01:49
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jacekowskiif that works01:49
jacekowskithen there is a chance01:49
jonwilisnt phonet documented via ofono and www.wirelessmodemapi.com?01:49
jacekowskijonwil: no01:49
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's not a very new idea, anyway an interesting project, though it prolly gives you a brick01:50
jacekowskijonwil: only not important parts of it01:50
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, worst case scenario = crossed out sim01:51
DocScrutinizerwell, I thought http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com is pretty complete01:51
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sure01:51
MohammadAGwe already know how maemo reacts to a failed modem01:51
jonwilwhich bits of the interface to the modem are not documented? Anything telephony related will be documented by ofono eventually01:51
jonwilsince ofono will implement all telephony bits01:51
DocScrutinizerjonwil: any service monitor mode might or might not be implemented in cellmo FW but never will get documented01:52
MohammadAGstart porting telephony01:52
MohammadAGofono*01:52
jonwilcant port ofono to n900 without throwing away other large parts of the phone that rely on the old telephony stack01:52
jonwilLots of the apps would need to be replaced01:52
jonwiland if you do that, you may as well just go to MeeGo01:53
DocScrutinizerthat's the crux01:53
MohammadAG<jonwil> Lots of the apps would need to be replaced01:53
MohammadAGphone01:53
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jonwilSMS would need replacing01:53
MohammadAGreverse engineer the rest01:53
DocScrutinizermaps01:53
MohammadAGput a compatibility wrapper01:53
DocScrutinizerconversations01:53
MohammadAGwrapper01:53
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jonwilin any case IMO its not worth trying to port ofono to maemo01:54
psycho_oreosanyone know where fapman reads the sources.list?01:54
DocScrutinizerfor sure it's not01:54
jonwilthere is nothing ofono supports that the current telephony stack does not support01:54
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, /opt/fapman(tab)01:54
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, ta01:54
MohammadAGyw01:55
MohammadAGmeh01:55
DocScrutinizerWUT? fsckng fapman writes to /opt???01:55
MohammadAGyes01:55
SpeedEviljonwil: The dogma that closed source is good.01:55
DocScrutinizer~nuke fapman01:55
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at fapman ... B☢☢M!01:55
jonwilI don't like closed source01:55
MohammadAGlots of apps write to /opt :p01:55
DocScrutinizerI'll create a daemon to track down, kill -9, and apt-get remove purge all those01:56
MohammadAGwho does01:56
MohammadAGapt-get writes to /opt01:56
MohammadAG:P01:56
DocScrutinizerehh?01:56
MohammadAGcache01:57
DocScrutinizeron installing, yes01:57
DocScrutinizernah01:57
MohammadAGls -l /var/cache/apt/archives01:57
DocScrutinizerplease don't tell me apt-get holds a cache on /opt01:57
MohammadAGh-e-n was almost about to write to /opt01:57
MohammadAGthen hit myself01:57
MohammadAGI hit*01:57
BCMMMohammadAG: heh, for what?01:57
MohammadAG.hostmode alive status file01:58
jacekowskithere is folder for that01:58
jacekowski /var/run/01:58
jacekowskior you could use shm01:58
jonwilbtw, csd-sms plugin exports something called IncomingCBS via something (probably dbus). Nothing I can find on the phone uses that though.01:58
DocScrutinizerI'm simply pushing a fix that changes permissions of /opt to go-w, and owner to install-admin01:58
DocScrutinizerthen add apt-get group install-admin01:59
DocScrutinizerdone01:59
DocScrutinizerthat's how a decent system config should have looked like from beginning01:59
DocScrutinizermodulo ~optification02:00
MohammadAGheh02:00
DocScrutinizerbut that's not related here02:00
MohammadAGwell02:00
MohammadAGwhere else would one write?02:00
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DocScrutinizerhell, to /home maybe02:00
MohammadAGas root?02:00
DocScrutinizeryes, even as root02:00
Psiheh, got samba/apache2/php5/cups working on n900, what else can i overload it with02:01
MohammadAGo_O02:01
MohammadAGstart a hosting service02:01
DocScrutinizerthough root's home usually is /root02:01
jacekowskigood question02:01
jacekowskihow is that cell broadcast working02:01
jacekowskicell just sends it every so often02:01
MohammadAG/root is on /02:01
jacekowskiand that's all?02:01
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yes02:02
jonwilok, so going over my list, WiFi signal strength is already made available, someone with UI skills I dont yet have would need to write the status bar plugin for it.02:02
jonwilreverse engineering telepathy-ring is a waste of time02:02
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I told MohammadAG about /ver/run. Seems he nce again doesn't like to listen02:02
MohammadAGwoah woah woah02:03
jonwilsince we can hook the dbus interface above telepathy instead02:03
MohammadAGdid I say I write to /opt?02:03
DocScrutinizerjonwil: status bar applet for WIFI is closed, so replacing it by a better version is hard or even impossible02:04
jonwilok, which applet is it?02:04
MohammadAGdon't make me port network-manager02:05
MohammadAGit's related to the closed icd202:05
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG should know it02:05
SpeedEvilCan't you simply uninstall the status-bar-applet?02:05
MohammadAG/usr/lib/hildon-desktop/connui-internet-status-menu-item.so02:05
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, or move the desktop file, same effect02:06
DocScrutinizerthanks MohammadAG02:06
MohammadAGanytime02:06
MohammadAG/usr/lib/hildon-desktop/connui-cellular-status-item.so02:06
MohammadAGis the 3G one02:06
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DocScrutinizerlibovipromotionwidget.so  WAAAH, rm -fffff02:09
jonwilok, so for the wifi thing would we need to reverse engineer connui-internet-status-menu-item.so or would it be enough to just write something new and remove the old plugin?02:09
DocScrutinizergood question02:09
MohammadAGwrite new, replace it02:09
MohammadAGof course, we don't know where icd2 lives...02:10
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: assuming tha tthe thing driving it does not object to it going missing02:10
MohammadAGexactly02:10
MohammadAGlet's try02:10
Jeenxmy n900 is tethered to my laptop in order to get internet.  is there a way show whats on the phone on the laptop?02:10
MohammadAGremoved02:10
Jeenxdid that amke any sense?02:10
jonwilits just a status bar widget that calls functions to get the status02:11
jonwilor may register callbacks02:11
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: now I guess try to boot to see if you hit any dogs02:11
MohammadAGneed a quicky02:11
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, R&D, doesn't make a diff02:11
MohammadAGbut02:11
SpeedEvilah02:11
MohammadAGwhat's the command to open connection dialog?02:11
MohammadAGit's on the dbus page02:12
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, actually02:12
MohammadAGmaemo should boot02:12
DocScrutinizerJeenx: try sftp://rot@n90002:12
MohammadAGand networking will work02:12
DocScrutinizerJeenx: try sftp://root@<n900-IP>02:12
MohammadAGit already works without it (see h-e-n + ethernet)02:13
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: I was meaning - what if ICD is tied to it more than we thought, and ICD has a watchdog02:13
MohammadAGyeah02:13
jonwilthere is no reason why ICD cares about the UI layers above02:13
MohammadAGdevice would bootloop02:13
SpeedEviljonwil: No, there isn't.02:13
SpeedEviljonwil: That doesn't mean it's not the case.02:13
JeenxDocScrutinizer: on the phone or the laptop?02:13
DocScrutinizeron laptop02:13
DocScrutinizerJeenx: check usb-networking wikipage02:14
MohammadAGk02:14
Jeenxthanx02:14
MohammadAGtime to kill icd202:14
DocScrutinizerkill, pussycat, kill!02:14
pupnikno no.  "Faster pussycat!  Kill, kill!"02:15
MohammadAGam I here?02:15
pupnikis the proper incarnation02:15
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: no02:15
MohammadAGkilling icd2 restarts telepathy02:15
MohammadAGtest02:16
MohammadAG~ping02:16
infobot~pong02:16
DocScrutinizer~ding02:17
infobotdong02:17
MohammadAG~ping02:17
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infobot~pong02:17
SpeedEvil~king02:17
infoboti guess king is Dessimat0r02:17
MohammadAGactually02:17
DocScrutinizer~pong02:17
infobot~ping02:17
MohammadAGtelepathy continues to run02:17
MohammadAGM680-03-4_RD_001:~# while true; do killall -9 icd2; done02:17
MohammadAGnice hostname, i must say02:17
MohammadAGcouldn't resist, sorry02:18
DocScrutinizermuhahaha02:18
MohammadAGit looks so much geekier than Nokia-N90002:18
MohammadAGanyway02:18
MohammadAGicd2 can be replaced02:18
DocScrutinizerIroN900 and t900 here ;-)02:18
MohammadAGbut02:18
MohammadAGthe first time i killed it02:19
DocScrutinizert900 sounds like arnold02:19
MohammadAGwlan0 disassociated and associated again02:19
MohammadAGhmm02:19
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MohammadAGhow would one do a 3G connection?02:20
DocScrutinizererr?02:20
MohammadAGor would a rewrite cover that too?02:20
jonwillooking at connui-internet-status-menu-item.so, it doesnt look insanely hard to clone. I think I might try it, it doesnt seem to be calling that many undocumented calls02:20
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MohammadAGif it's easy to initiate a 3G connection02:20
MohammadAGthen i'd say rewrite icd202:20
MohammadAGwl1251 is open02:21
MrBawbit's not too hard, as long as the other parts stay the same02:21
jonwilno, icd2 would be a pain in the ass to rewrite02:21
jonwilit talks to a lot of closed low level libs02:21
DocScrutinizernonono, icd2 has lots of really (this time I mean it) cute stuff to handle connections and connection handover02:21
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MohammadAGwhat's the dbus to open connui dialog :P02:22
DocScrutinizerwhich dialog?02:22
jonwilyeah icd2 seems line one of those things whereby even if you reverse engineer it, you will be forever finding corner cases you missed in your reverse engineering02:22
DocScrutinizerjonwil: exactly02:23
DocScrutinizerand Nokia seems to be really proud of that paticular bit of proprietary IP02:23
jonwilwonder what meego is doing there?02:23
* jonwil checks meego repos02:24
DocScrutinizernetwork manager I guess02:24
DocScrutinizerMnetworkmanager :-P02:25
MohammadAGbad news02:26
jonwilbad news what?02:26
DocScrutinizerN900 exploded XD02:26
MohammadAGdbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.icd_ui /com/nokia/icd_ui com.nokia.icd_ui.show_conn_dlg boolean:false02:26
MohammadAGreturns no saved connections02:26
MohammadAGactually no connections at all02:27
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DocScrutinizerthat's expected bahviour?02:27
MohammadAGoh right02:27
* MohammadAG facepalms02:27
MohammadAGi killed icd202:27
MohammadAGxD02:27
jonwilok, so reverse engineering icd2 is out of the question (although some of its plugins may be fesable if there is a legitimate use case for cloning them)02:28
DocScrutinizerumm, yep02:28
jonwilany of the icd2 plugins worth reverse engineering?02:29
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jonwileither the network or policy plugins?02:29
DocScrutinizericd2 licence change request might work though, if we got a real itch to scratch02:29
DocScrutinizerpolicy, YEAH02:30
jonwilI think we could write our own policy plugin if we wanted to02:30
jacekowskihmm, are you sure that cell broadcast is just pushed from tower02:30
jacekowskibecause it looks like you may have to register to recieve it02:30
DocScrutinizerpolicies are braindead, no way to implement nice policies02:30
MohammadAGok02:30
MohammadAGscrew replacing icd202:30
MohammadAGit got messy02:30
DocScrutinizers/nice/smart/.02:30
SpeedEviljacekowski: you need to register with the modem to tell it you are interested in CBS02:31
SpeedEviljacekowski: so it sends you them02:31
SpeedEvilAIUI02:31
MohammadAGstatus bar applet can be easily replaced02:31
MohammadAGI could do it, but I'm a gtk noob02:31
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: subscription to CBC is going to modem, so it starts listening02:31
MohammadAGDo I see any volunteers02:32
* MohammadAG hears javispedro, even while he's offline02:32
MrBawbmy libicd-3g-ipv6 module could be changed to do ipv4, I don't know if that's really useful though02:32
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: SMS-CB definitely is a connectionless point-to-many protocoll02:32
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: braodcast at its best02:33
DocScrutinizerjonwil: I'm absolutely sure we won't run short on topics for your RE todo list :-)02:35
jonwilok so for icd2 we have the icd2 binary, icd2 policy plugins, network_eap plugin, network_gprs plugin, network_ipv4 plugin, network_wlan plugin, network_wps plugin, libicd_settings, libicd_log, libicd_dbus02:35
jonwilAny of those worth doing?02:35
jonwilI dont think a license change request for icd2 is likely to go anywhere02:35
DocScrutinizerprolly not02:35
MohammadAGit is02:35
MohammadAGvery likely02:36
jonwilwhy do you say that?02:36
* MohammadAG points to trash02:36
jonwil:)02:36
jonwilok, so any of those bits of icd worth trying to clone?02:36
MohammadAGclone the status bar applet first02:36
MohammadAGit's easy to do02:36
SpeedEvilAnd beneficial.02:37
jonwilyeah its on the list02:37
MohammadAGalso02:37
SpeedEvilAs wifi status would be nice02:37
MohammadAGadd signal02:37
jonwilbut is there anything in icd2 worth adding to the list?02:37
MohammadAGyea02:37
SpeedEvilA nice little varying antenna, and maybe colour for open/closed02:37
MohammadAGnope02:37
DocScrutinizerand I couldn't say from those names you listed which of them are the interesting ones02:37
jonwilok, so I wont put any of icd2 stuff on the list then02:37
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, or the same icon02:38
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MohammadAGbut modify the waves02:38
jonwilthe "good bits" will be in the icd2 binary and maybe the libicd_xxx libraries02:38
DocScrutinizerdepends on usecases and what they would touch02:38
MohammadAGmake it 5-waves02:38
MohammadAGshow signal02:38
jonwilnone of which are worth cloning02:38
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: that's what I mean02:38
jonwilI mean none of which are clonable02:38
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MohammadAG:)02:38
jonwilicd2 daemon is too hard02:38
jonwilpolicy plugins could be done02:38
jonwilbut do we have a use case for cloning those?02:39
MohammadAGneed to learn C and Gtk02:39
SpeedEvilICD doesn't let you do all sorts of potentially interesting stuff.02:39
DocScrutinizerjonwil: yes, have smarter policies02:39
DocScrutinizerjonwil: priorities02:39
DocScrutinizerjonwil: conditional priorities even02:39
SpeedEvilFor example, you can't tether the phone to your computers internet.02:39
jonwilso the policy plugins are what control network priorities and stuff?02:40
MohammadAGbut you can tether your computer's inte... nevermind02:40
SpeedEvilAnd PAN is entirely unsupported02:40
DocScrutinizeryes, a very common unsupported one02:40
MrBawbSpeedEvil: the n900 getting internet access via pan?02:40
DocScrutinizer(tether to PC's internet)02:40
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SpeedEvilMrBawb: in principle02:40
MrBawbgetting internet via usb should be possible with just a icd plugin02:40
SpeedEvilMrBawb: Or indeed, tethering through bluetooth on another phone02:41
SpeedEvilOr via host-mode, through a dongle.02:41
MrBawbgetting internet via pan is also possible via an icd plugin02:41
DocScrutinizerand managing priorities for all of those02:41
SpeedEvilyeah02:42
SpeedEvilIn many ways the UI is harder than the low-level02:42
SpeedEvilUI and policy framework02:42
MohammadAGyou know02:42
MohammadAGNokia spent time on Maemo 502:42
MohammadAGsadly, most of that time went to waste02:42
SpeedEvil:/02:42
MohammadAGthe more i compare stock mediaplayer to mine02:43
MohammadAGthe more things I find02:43
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MohammadAGthe small details they looked at are hard to spot, and hard to code02:43
MohammadAGlike if you notice02:43
jacekowskihmmm02:44
MohammadAGthe now playing indicator is destoryed/hidden+stopped on each window switch02:44
jacekowskiJan 22 00:43:48 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .597141> isiclient_sms_run(): SMS_STATE_START (sms_pp_routing_req, sms_gsm_cb_routing_req, [sms_storage_status_update_req], sim_sms_req_read_parameter)02:44
jacekowskiJan 22 00:43:48 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .604588> resp_cell_broadcast_subscription(): Incoming cell broadcast receive status:0 OK02:44
MohammadAGand recreated on each window02:44
jacekowskiJan 22 00:43:48 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .604832> resp_sms_subscription(): Incoming sms receive status:0 OK02:44
SpeedEvil]02:44
SpeedEvilThe coding style and choice of which bits to open in maemo makes sense.02:44
MohammadAGnow playing window is always recreated, a bit sad02:44
MohammadAGtime and memory waster02:45
SpeedEvilIf you start out from the perspective of 'Ok - we want to make an openish phone, but we absolutely don't want to allow other phone makers to gain anything from what the community codes'.02:45
SpeedEvil'What bits do we need to close, and how should we obscure them to make them hard to reverse engineer'.02:46
SpeedEvilreverse engineer by the community.02:46
SpeedEvilA large number of interconnected non-documented daemons, that all talk to each other, and you can't replace piecemeal - is pretty much spot-on for that.02:46
jacekowskican anybody check if csd has watchdog registered with dsme?02:47
jacekowskior some other nasty stuff02:47
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: o.O02:47
MohammadAGkill it02:47
MohammadAGif it starts again / reboots device02:47
jacekowskii don't want to reboot my phone02:47
jacekowskithat's why i'm asking02:47
MohammadAGWhat's the binary name?02:47
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jacekowskicsd02:48
SpeedEvilgrep -r csd /etc/rc.d02:48
BCMMSpeedEvil: it does all seem like a bit of a waste of effort - don't we already have a open set of daemons that rely on each other? (network manager, HAL, etc.)02:48
MohammadAGjust stop it02:48
MohammadAGstop csd02:48
BCMM(yes i know HAL is dieing)02:48
MohammadAGsame as bme02:48
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yep, exactly (obscure...)02:49
jacekowskii don't want to stop it02:49
jacekowskican anybody just kill it and tell me if it reboots a phone02:49
MohammadAGit starts again02:49
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MohammadAGso yes, there's a watchdog02:49
SpeedEvilBCMM: It's not a waste from the right perspective.02:50
MohammadAGkilling it = no sim icon02:50
SpeedEvilBCMM: the perspective is making damn sure that china can't use stuff the community develops to make a nice usable smartphone running a maemo derivative.02:50
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that's what bites their own arses now, for meego XP02:51
SpeedEvilBCMM: and to sidetrack community effort away from reimplementing the stuff that might help them, as it's too hard, letting them do easy stuff that doesn't help a third party manufacurer at all.02:51
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yep02:51
SpeedEvilThey are trying to be IBM - pre-breakup.02:51
SpeedEvilHey!02:51
SpeedEvilIBM pre-breakup also sold most of its computers through a leasing model.02:52
SpeedEvil:)02:52
SpeedEvil(though admittedly they leased them directly)02:52
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pupnikwould MS-DOS have taken the market by storm without the clones?02:52
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pupnikmaybe meego needs cheap hardware to succeed02:52
SpeedEvilpupnik: I mean IBM - back when IBM used to not sell mainframes. They would only lease you one - the software came free. Often with source.02:52
pupnikah ok02:52
SpeedEvilpupnik: Closed source really took off (as I understand it) once this went away, and you actually had to buy software.02:53
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pupnikhmm...02:54
DocScrutinizerI just find it incredibly lame of Nokia to tell us a bout their interest in safety, differentiation, safety, quality, when it comes to rationale why some bits need to keep closed. I see the Nokia internal structures and hirarchies causing such crap excuses to come and even believed by those spreading them, and I don't like it02:56
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SpeedEvil'And of these, differentiation is king'02:58
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DocScrutinizerthe running gag of maemo "we can't open core apps, however crap and buggy they are. We want to differentiate (to the inferior)" XD02:59
DocScrutinizerir short: "that's not a bug, that's a feature"03:00
nox-DocScrutinizer, btw have you seen this bug?  wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request03:01
nox-ap is maybe 2m away...03:01
nox-and when i see those i get them until i click disconnect and then connect again03:01
DocScrutinizerPSM03:01
nox-psm?03:01
DocScrutinizerpower saving mode03:01
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DocScrutinizerit's a timing thing, based on exact scheduled slots of active time03:02
nox-hmm03:02
nox-is it fixable?03:02
DocScrutinizerif the AP doesn't implement it correctly, then that's probably what you'll get03:02
nox-oh its an ap thing...03:03
nox-well this is hotapd03:03
DocScrutinizernox-: maybe your AP has config options you can tweak03:03
nox-hostapd even03:03
DocScrutinizerlike freq of beacons sent03:04
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DocScrutinizeralso there seem to be parameters directly related to PSM - some AP allow tuning them03:04
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nox-oh no the beacons get sent, i see them in wireshark...03:04
pupnikwonder if you can get bacon-scent cologne03:04
DocScrutinizeryeah, but the freq range is from 10/s .. 0.1/s03:05
DocScrutinizereven 50/s seens sometimes03:05
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jonwilok, so for ICD2, the policy plugins are on my todo list. The icd2 daemon is too hard.03:06
DocScrutinizernox-: anyway you never should use hidden SSID03:06
jonwilThe libraries (libicd_settings, libicd_dbus and libicd_log) are pointless03:06
jonwilsince only icd2 uses them03:06
DocScrutinizeron none of your configured connections03:06
jonwiland the network plugins are useless since we can write our own if we need to03:07
nox-hmm03:07
jonwilbtw there seems to be a libicd-network-usb package03:08
jonwiloh wait thats in extras-devel03:08
DocScrutinizernox-: if you got one single connection configured with hidden SSID, then your WLAN in N900 needs to actively ping every AP with hidden SSID it detects -> TX -> battery consumption03:08
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nox-aah03:08
jacekowskidoes anybody have info about content of that cbsms?03:09
DocScrutinizerwell, it *might* try be a smartass and only ping the AP with correct MAC, but then that's not how connections are supposed to work - aiui03:10
javispedroclearly not as it won't store the mac03:10
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: data structure of the particular SMS?03:10
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: which content? which cbsms?03:11
jacekowskiyes03:11
jacekowskiyes03:11
jacekowskidunno03:11
jacekowskihttp://pastebin.com/eGt5WzZE03:11
DocScrutinizersee wikipedia, cell broadcast03:11
jacekowskidoes this mean anything to you03:11
DocScrutinizerit's ost likely octet coded 7bit03:11
jonwilSo you actually recieved a cell broadcast message on your N900?03:12
jonwilOr did you get it from some other phone?03:12
jacekowskiit's on my phone03:12
jacekowskiit's recieveing it03:12
jacekowskii just see that there is no handler installed for it03:13
jacekowskibut it's getting as far as libsms.so03:13
DocScrutinizerit's obviously mentioning a tel number at start03:13
jonwilso the answer is that no DBUS handler is registered to recieve the relavent dbus information?03:13
jacekowskinope03:13
jacekowskiit's low level03:13
SpeedEviljacekowski: So the modem can do it?03:14
SpeedEvilGreat.03:14
jacekowskihttp://pastebin.com/ZrQRHSiR03:14
jacekowskijonwil: something like that03:14
DocScrutinizerI don't think that's a sms-cb03:14
DocScrutinizerit has a phone number03:14
SpeedEvilOh - yeah03:14
jonwilI think for CBSMS all we need is to interrogate the IncomingCBS item03:14
jonwilits clearly some kind of dbus thing03:15
jonwilbut how you talk to it I cant tell03:15
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SpeedEvilThat is t-mobile UKs SMSC03:15
SpeedEvilThe phone number03:15
DocScrutinizerI'm still putting hope into 10870 and 834703:15
jacekowskiwhat is that?03:15
DocScrutinizerbug 1087003:16
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/10870 Open source libsms and libsms-utils03:16
DocScrutinizerbug 834703:16
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available03:16
MohammadAGjavispedro, kind of enough to donate a status menu app?03:16
DocScrutinizergo vote for it. Don't let quim gil close it as wontfix03:16
SpeedEvilSMSC is the SMS service centre.03:16
jacekowskiis every network sendind cbsms?03:17
SpeedEviljacekowski: no03:17
jacekowskiis t-mobile sending cbsms?03:17
javispedroMohammadAG: a "status menu app" of what?03:17
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, voting != fixing03:17
MohammadAGjavispedro, just a "Internet connections" rewrite03:17
javispedroO.o03:17
javispedroMer again?03:17
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: not every03:18
SpeedEviljacekowski: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_message_service_center03:18
DocScrutinizerbut a lot of the european ones, in one chan or another03:18
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jacekowskii know what a smsc is03:18
MohammadAGjavispedro, yes, muhahaha03:18
MohammadAGjavispedro, but seriously, can you?03:18
jacekowskithing is i don't know what to expect03:18
jacekowskiis it message sent every couple seconds03:18
jacekowskiis it even sent by t-mobile?03:19
MohammadAGIt needs to get wifi AP name, call the connection dialog via DBus and when switched to 3G, get AP name03:19
jacekowskior i have to get prepaid simcard on another network03:19
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's great03:19
MohammadAGeasy and straightforward03:19
javispedronot really03:19
javispedrothere's the entire connection UI03:19
MohammadAGno03:19
MohammadAGthat's not part of it03:19
MohammadAGi removed it here03:19
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: what's great?03:20
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DocScrutinizera SMS coming in every few seconds - smells like SMS-CB03:20
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_Broadcast03:20
jacekowskiehh03:20
jacekowskii don't have that03:20
MohammadAGjavispedro, dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.icd_ui /com/nokia/icd_ui com.nokia.icd_ui.show_conn_dlg boolean:false03:20
jacekowskiand i'm asking if it's what i should expect03:20
MohammadAGthat calls the dialog03:20
jacekowskiand if i should expect it on t-mobile03:20
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: >>>A Cell Broadcast message page comprises 82 octets, which, using the default character set, equates to 93 characters. Up to 15 of these pages may be concatenated to form a Cell Broadcast message. Each page of such a CB message will have the same message identifier (indicating the source of the message), and the same serial number. Using this information, the mobile telephone is able to identify and ignore broadcasts of already03:21
DocScrutinizerreceived messages.03:21
jacekowskii know that part03:21
MohammadAGjavispedro, I'd do it, but I'm a gtk noob :P03:21
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jacekowskiah03:22
jacekowskihmm, ok, crap03:22
jacekowskishit03:22
jacekowskino cell broadcast on t-mobile03:22
Jartzagtk is easy03:22
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: try to decode the octets to 7bit chars to see if that's some meanngful text. You can use the python code somewhere in wiki, on phone control iirc (sending SMS via dbus)03:23
MohammadAGJartza, I hate C's syntax03:23
MohammadAG(this again...)03:23
jacekowskiekhm03:23
Jartzahmm03:23
MohammadAGhate translates to idk in my book03:23
JartzaI don't :)03:24
jacekowskii love C03:24
javispedroMohammadAG: completely non interested though.03:24
jacekowskiand asm03:24
BCMMjacekowski: t-mob UK?03:24
jacekowskiyes03:24
JartzaI hate C++.03:24
MohammadAGjavispedro, i'll give you an N903:24
MohammadAGwhen it's out03:24
JartzaQt is my only reason to use C++ :)03:24
MohammadAGI only know Qt :P03:24
JartzaC is nice. Simple enough.03:25
BCMMi'm just now learning C++ and Qt, and it seems pretty nice to me03:25
Jartzabut I've only done just a bit of asm03:26
BCMMi like C, but felt like i was missing something a lot like a class to separate stuff into bits that break independently03:26
MohammadAGi hate the priv thingy in C03:26
MohammadAGhow you define everything at the top03:26
MohammadAGand make an instance of that every time03:26
JartzaI wrote more asm when I was using C64 back in the times :)03:26
MohammadAGalso, worrying about memory isn't my best skill03:26
Jartzanowadays just some simple initialization parts when doing "embedded" devel03:27
BCMMin much the same way that in the brain-dead BASIC variant i first learned to program, i felt that there was something missing which i later learned was a "function"03:27
Jartzalike initializing the vectors for arm etc...03:27
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BCMM(it only has subroutines that didn't take parameters)03:28
Jartzabut I do write and teach C++03:28
Jartzabecause of Qt03:28
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JartzaI wish I had more time03:29
pupnikMohammadAG: you might get more identifiable results if you attached a test image for people to photograph03:29
JartzaI could participate to meego somehow more03:29
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Jartzawould be nice03:30
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pupnikuse it and fix what 'sucks' for you03:31
JartzaI am using and teachig people how to develop to meego03:32
Jartzathat just takes most of my time03:32
MohammadAGpupnik, hm?03:33
MohammadAGneed 2 more batteries03:33
jacekowskido you know any user friendly music shop?03:33
MohammadAGamazon?03:34
MohammadAGor the ubuntu one store03:34
MohammadAGor iTunes :P03:34
jonwilok, so I am looking at my reverse-engineering todo list. Are any of the other desktop widgets worth reverse engineering or just the internet one?03:35
pupnikMohammadAG: can you phrase your question in the form of a sentence?03:35
* SpeedEvil ponders.03:36
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you managed to decode parts of that SMS?03:36
MohammadAGpupnik, image of what?03:36
MohammadAGyou kinda lost me03:36
jonwilok, so are any of the other desktop widgets worth reverse engineering?03:37
javispedrowhat is so fun about the internet status bar applet? it probably even uses the standard icd2 api03:37
SpeedEviljonwil: you mean like the calendar?03:37
SpeedEviljavispedro: Well - it lacks signal strength, which is quite fundamental03:37
jonwilfor wifi signal strength03:37
javispedroah, the miniicon03:37
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: nope, that's probably something else03:37
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: t-mobile isn't sending cell broadcasts03:38
jacekowskii'll get vodafone sim tomorrow03:38
javispedrowell, that was a feature of the n8x0 one.03:38
DocScrutinizerhow do you know?03:38
jacekowskigoogle03:38
MohammadAGlol03:38
SpeedEviljonwil: GPS - indicating if it can recieve any satellites at all - if it can't - then it's unlikely to ever get a position.03:38
DocScrutinizerI think t-mob actually shall send SMS-CB, to identify area03:38
MohammadAGjavispedro, you could also add tap-n-hold to disconnect03:38
DocScrutinizerin chan#50 iirc03:39
SpeedEviljonwil: So if you turn it on, it might flash grey - then flash white - picking up at least one sat, then go solid when it has a fix03:39
MohammadAGor to ifdown wlan003:39
javispedroso it's more like a "Advanced ICD2 Applet" thing03:39
MohammadAGyeah03:39
jacekowskiJan 22 01:16:36 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: com.nokia.phone.net: get_network_time_info returned: y:100 m:100 d:100 h:100 m:100 s:100 tz:100 dl:10003:39
SpeedEviljacekowski: yeah - that's a 'bug' on the network I thing03:39
SpeedEvilk03:39
javispedroMohammadAG: you can probably code such applets in Qt, if you're that interested.03:39
MohammadAGhow?03:39
jonwilfor CBSMS its all about finding out how to poke the IncomingCBS dbus thing03:40
MohammadAGand I'd rather learn Gtk :P03:40
jonwilat least thats my guess03:40
MohammadAGfaster startup time03:40
SpeedEvilhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1016303:40
povbotBug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device.03:40
javispedronow that's an interesting thing =)03:40
MohammadAGdoes gtk work with C++?03:40
javispedrothere's gtkmm03:40
jacekowskiwell03:41
jacekowskiJan 22 01:03:31 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .327915> resp_cell_broadcast_subscription(): Incoming cell broadcast receive status:0 OK03:41
MohammadAGbut it's not the same eh? :P03:41
javispedrothere's even some nokia maemomm stuff, but... probably rotting03:41
jacekowskiJan 22 01:05:12 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .333317> resp_sms_subscription(): Incoming sms receive status:0 OK03:41
jacekowskicsd is indicating that everything is ready to recieve sms and sms-cb03:41
jacekowskibut nothing happens03:41
jacekowskihttp://pastebin.com/PiHD76Mn03:41
MohammadAGmay I ask03:41
jacekowskithat's what happened when i sent text to myself03:41
MohammadAGwtf is cell broadcast?03:41
jacekowskiMohammadAG: i don't know03:42
SpeedEviljonwil: Also - battery meter would be nice.03:42
javispedroand a better question is03:42
MohammadAGit never worked in IL03:42
javispedrohas cbsms ever been used by any telco since the nineties for anything remotely useful? =)03:42
MohammadAGthe only difference I saw on symbian when i enabled it was the tower got lit up03:42
BCMMMohammadAG: a way to send a message to every device connected to a tower03:43
jonwilfor CBSMS its all about finding out how to poke the IncomingCBS dbus thing, assuming the network sends CBSMS messages then that dbus interface should somehow reiceve it03:43
MohammadAGBCMM, my operator does that with text messages03:43
MohammadAGhow do they differ :P03:43
MohammadAGbesides being annoying03:43
jonwilas for status bar widgets, fm transmitter status plugin is not worth reverse engineering03:43
BCMMMohammadAG: all of the devices are *supposed* to receive it03:43
javispedroI remember at least mine used to send me stuff about the "name" they gave to the cells (which usually was nearest town with a certain population), and that was nice (channel ninety-something iirc)03:43
javispedrobut they no longer do that...03:43
MohammadAGjonwil, that one was fully rewritten03:43
MohammadAGby qwerty1203:43
jonwilok03:44
BCMMMohammadAG: in theory, it is useful in emergencies. dunno if anyone uses it03:44
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's not necessarily indicating that the modem is correctly configured to actually recieve any SMS-CB. It could as well be a valid rsponse to a configuration command that in fact unsubscribes to all channels03:44
jonwilbluetooth headset status, bluetooth status, bluetooth transfer status, none of those are worth reverse engineering03:44
MohammadAGBCMM, hmm, so I need to upgrade my mobile so I don't miss 201203:44
BCMMMohammadAG: but someone here told me that it's how some phones on some networks are able to display the name of the cell (usually the name of hte area it's in or the building it's on top of)03:45
MohammadAG:P03:45
MohammadAGah03:45
MohammadAGthat cell info03:45
MohammadAG(that's cell broadcast?)03:45
BCMMis that a different system?03:45
jonwilyes thats cell broadcast03:45
MohammadAGthey're different options on symbian03:45
BCMMMohammadAG: dunno, but somebody in here said it was03:45
javispedrosee my little story above =)03:45
MohammadAGwell03:45
MohammadAGit's neat how it knows your location instantly03:45
jacekowskii'm going to sleep03:45
javispedroMohammadAG: usually you'll find a settings screen with a list of "channels" like 10, 25, 30, etc.03:46
BCMMi wish more networks would do that, it's kind of interesting03:46
MohammadAGbut... it's not too helpful if I'm lost03:46
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BCMMwould've been a lot more useful before GPS, to be honest03:46
jonwilok, so I will clone connui-status-menu-item03:46
BCMMi mean, before GPS was common in phones03:46
MohammadAGthere was a hotel in turkey03:46
jonwilalso status-area-applet-battery03:46
MohammadAGthat somehow said you were in the lobby03:46
BCMMi've never seen working cell info in the UK03:46
MohammadAGor restaurant03:46
MohammadAGthat kinda amazed me03:46
MohammadAGjonwil, there's a python clone for that btw03:46
BCMMMohammadAG: heh, i was going to mention turkey - everywhere seems to have cell info there03:46
SpeedEviljonwil: the battery meter for example can be improved - the hardware can tell us teh charge of the battery, when charging, for example.03:47
MohammadAGif you're doing it in C03:47
BCMMthat was actually useful too, like having GPS on my 341003:47
MohammadAGremember that it handles "Charging", "Battery Low"03:47
MohammadAGetc03:47
jonwilcant see it worth cloning ham-notifier-status-menu-item or ham-updates-status-menu-item03:47
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: like is that of teh any use03:47
BCMMsince they all seemed to be named after major landmarks they were on top of03:47
MohammadAGjonwil, those are open source03:47
SpeedEviljacekowski: sure.03:47
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: voltage while charging will be bit off03:47
jacekowskisignificant bit03:47
SpeedEviljacekowski: It's not voltage - it's the charge meter03:47
jacekowskias in, energy in/out?03:48
SpeedEviljacekowski: It integrates battery cunt to measure charge03:48
SpeedEvilcurrent03:48
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (settings screen) on 6210 Nokia this was a config dialog where you enter the numeric SMS-CB channel, plus a symbolic name for your convenience03:48
jacekowskiwhere does battery have cunt?03:48
MohammadAGit has 3 at the top, +, -, and whatever the third one is03:48
BCMMjacekowski: ask Yahoo Answers.03:49
Robot101jonwil: SMS wouldn't need replacing if you replaced csd with ofono - the open source ring shouldn't need too much work to replace the closed one03:49
jonwilwe dont need to replace SMS at all03:49
Robot101jonwil: the problem is it would break the dialer more - USSD and emergency calls I guess03:49
BCMMthe third one doesn't make it explode?03:49
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: and 6210 power consuption noticably increased on subscribing to any SMS-CB channel, as the receiver couldn't enter deep sleep anymore03:49
MohammadAGRobot101, nah03:49
Robot101signal strength and offline mode and stuff would be the annoyance03:49
MohammadAGit'll break it completely03:49
jonwilall we need to do is to find the right dbus calls to talk to the dbus cbsms interface03:49
jonwilIncomingCBS or whatever it is that libcsd-sms exports03:50
MohammadAGdbus-monitor --system?03:50
jonwilNot sure what sort of dbus thing it is03:50
Robot101MohammadAG: no, the conversations app is really similar between sms and IM, there are just a couple of extra interfaces for SMS03:50
MohammadAGsystem for sure03:50
MohammadAGi doubt it's dbus03:50
Robot101but they're in librtcom-telepathy-glib which is on git.collabora.co.uk at least03:50
DocScrutinizerRobot101: We think replacing the whole telephony stack of maemo by an ofono based one is unfeasible03:51
MohammadAGRobot101, It's telepathy for both03:51
MohammadAGyou're talking about replacing the stack03:51
MohammadAGnot the UI03:51
MohammadAGUI replacement is planned after the mediaplayer03:51
MohammadAGmaybe we can get a less shitty scrolling experience03:51
jonwilthe IncomingCBS thing is definatly dbus03:51
MohammadAGidk why they went with a crippled webOS-like conversations screen03:51
Robot101I was mostly thinking about jonwil's cbsms obsession, if he could replace csd with ofono, and update ring, he'd be able to fsck around with whatever he wanted03:52
jonwilwell I gave up my CBSMS obsession03:52
MohammadAGring's closed03:52
DocScrutinizerjonwil: so we should be able to get proper info regarding that, from Nokia or any of their affiliates03:52
* DocScrutinizer pokes Robot10103:52
jonwilsince my carrier isn't even sending CBSMS03:52
Robot101MohammadAG: there's a new ring which works with ofono03:52
MohammadAGah03:53
Robot101I am *very sure* you can make that work with the existing SMS UI03:53
MohammadAGwell, that makes sense03:53
MohammadAGyes03:53
MohammadAGyou're right03:53
MohammadAGtelepathy-* works03:53
jonwilreplacing csd with ofono is out of the question, too many other bits of the system are tied to it03:53
MohammadAGwhat about contacts03:53
MohammadAGphone app03:53
Robot101contacts doesn't touch csd at all, and only requests calls / chats via the call and conversation apps03:53
Robot101ok well contacts has a sim contacts plugin03:54
Robot101but who cares about sim contacts03:54
MohammadAG...03:54
DocScrutinizerRobot101: that's not the aproach we think will pan out03:54
MohammadAGif who cares was enough03:54
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MohammadAGI would've pushed a zImage of 2.6.35 that mounted /03:55
MohammadAGwho cares about the rest of the system03:55
Robot101I don't actually know what you're working on or trying to achieve at all03:55
MohammadAGI'm trying to achieve mer03:55
jonwilits clear that libsms and csd-sms on Fremantle have support for Cell Broadcast SMS03:55
Robot101I'm just pondering the whole csd/ofono thing, and someone said SMS would break - I think that's the only thing that wouldn't ::D03:55
jonwilSMS-CB03:55
DocScrutinizerwe are after getting cell broadcast to work on stock maemo03:55
MohammadAG(I think)03:55
jonwiland thats what we want to get working03:55
MohammadAGmer was awesome03:56
MohammadAGshould be revived03:56
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Robot101fmms probably has quite some clues about csd's SMS APIs03:56
Robot101and you might find some nokians working on ofono atm used to work on csd03:56
DocScrutinizerhmm a good point03:56
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Robot101and, did anyone try dbus introspecting it? I dunno if it works but its a good start03:57
* MohammadAG pokes frals 03:57
Robot101dbus-monitor --system is also likely to be helpful03:57
MohammadAGi already suggested that03:57
DocScrutinizerRobot101: please have a look into bug 834703:57
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available03:57
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DocScrutinizerRobot101: dbus introspection is known to be unsupported in all Nokia closed source components03:58
BCMMgah, how does one determine which row of a QListView is currently selected?03:58
jacekowskiJan 22 01:59:03 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: com.nokia.phone.net: get_network_time_info returned: y:100 m:100 d:100 h:100 m:100 s:100 tz:100 dl:10003:59
jacekowskii'm just wondering wtf is this?03:59
SpeedEvilhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1016303:59
povbotBug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device.03:59
SpeedEviljacekowski:03:59
DocScrutinizerRobot101: so we'd need a guru that drops us a magic dbus incantation to csd-sms to put cell broadcast to work, according to jonwil's findings03:59
jacekowskiRarok: and dbus is useless for that04:00
jacekowskiRobot101: nothing is sent over dbus from csd that would be usefull at all04:00
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's a borked GSM time msg04:00
jonwilfmms works higher level by plugging into wappush or something04:00
* MohammadAG patches rootsh to ask if a user is a noob and prevent all access with a user-removable status file in ~ 04:00
MohammadAGroot access for noobs is dangerous04:01
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG is dangerous04:01
jonwilyeah fmms is using com.nokia.WAPPushHandler04:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, indeed04:02
jonwilas for SMS-CB, it seems like there is a dbus interface/path called Phone.SMS which exports something below it called IncomingCBS04:02
jonwilso for CBSMS, we just need to figure out how to talk to that interfface04:03
DocScrutinizerand that's hard to figure by mere guessing04:03
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DocScrutinizerand pretty sure we don't want to replace csd by ofono, just to get some clue how to use the API04:07
jonwilok, so I am going to give up on messing with the GPS stuff, reverse engineering location-daemon is too hard04:07
MohammadAGi think someone reverse engineered it before04:07
jonwilwell I am not going to do it, its too hard for me :)04:08
MohammadAGi think04:08
jonwilMy RE todo list so far is "keep looking into IncomingCBS maybe to see how it works", "produce clone of ICD policy plugins", "04:08
SpeedEviljonwil: the protocol has been done for the GPS hardware04:08
jonwilok04:08
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jonwil"produce clone of connui-internet-status-menu-item","produce clone of status-area-applet-battery"04:08
DocScrutinizermodulo AGPS afaik04:08
jonwilInvestigate audio routing and consider reverse engineering those bits that are closed04:09
javispedrothe only closed bits are mostly some 3gpp codec related stuff that is also currently a blob in meego04:10
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ??04:10
javispedrowell, and the actual policy itself. but that's compiled prolog =)=04:10
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DocScrutinizeraah for audio04:11
jonwilanyone know what module-nokia-music, module-nokia-record, module-nokia-voice are for?04:11
DocScrutinizerjonwil: what javispedro just said04:11
DocScrutinizermostly04:12
jonwilThose blobs are open in MeeGo but closed in maemo04:12
jonwiland in maemo they talk to libbmeipc04:12
javispedromusic probably does the "enhacements" (aka distortions), dunno about record, voice is routing04:12
javispedrothey talk to libbmeipc because they have to know the temperature of some chip and for some reason04:12
DocScrutinizerrecord probably does AEC04:12
MohammadAGgod i love the battery meter04:13
MohammadAGfrom "50" to "low"04:13
DocScrutinizeranother explanation was they need to playback bme borne audio notifications04:13
javispedrodoubt that, it would be much easier for the ie battery applet to play them04:14
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DocScrutinizer:nod:04:14
MohammadAGhildon-desktop plays touchscreen events btw04:14
javispedroDocScrutinizer: can you think of any reason a voice codec could want the temperature?04:14
DocScrutinizerxprot for sure is querying the device temperature04:14
MohammadAGyeah04:14
MohammadAGso it doesn't go out of tune04:14
DocScrutinizerhahaha04:14
javispedroso there you have the bmeipc dep04:15
SpeedEvilSo it could work out the delay between speaker and mic due to speed of sound.04:15
SpeedEvilIt should also read GPS altitude.04:15
javispedro=)04:15
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I was shy to post that comment :-P04:15
MohammadAGshould check if a medium is present too04:15
MohammadAGif not, use electromagnetc waves04:15
jonwilso module-nokia-voice, module-nokia-record and module-nokia-voice have nothing to do with audio routing?04:16
javispedrothe truth is that the nokia record module is actually the one that triggers battery self-destruct when it hears the magic word.04:16
DocScrutinizerterribly insane niche of maemo bme/audio04:16
javispedrojonwil: voice does.04:16
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MohammadAGbtw04:17
javispedrovoice is the "executive" part of the audio routing framework04:17
MohammadAGwhy does battery empty stutter?04:17
jonwilwhats module-policy-enforcement for?04:17
MohammadAGxpolicy.conf i guess04:17
DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6399704:18
DocScrutinizerprobably it's a prolog interpreter04:18
MohammadAGthat thread scares me04:18
jonwilmodule-policy-enforcement on meego has nothing to do with prolog04:19
javispedrohum04:20
DocScrutinizersee alsaped maybe04:20
jonwilok, so I intend to play with all 4 of those modules (policy-enforcement, voice, record and music04:20
javispedroI probably confused voice and enforcement04:20
jonwiland reverse engineer this stuff in conjunction with the MeeGo code04:20
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javispedrogrep for /com/nokia/policy/decision and you'll find the one receiving orders from ohmd and executing them04:21
DocScrutinizerI'd guess voice and record are complementary, where voice has AEC. Music has xprot04:21
DocScrutinizeralso iirc voice is dealing with that insane syncing of PCM stream to GSM 20ms timeslices04:22
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: will you eventually write up a mini-howto or similar whitepaper about that stuff?04:23
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javispedrothe minihowto will be the code =)04:23
DocScrutinizerlol04:24
SpeedEvilUmm...04:24
javispedro(of how to use/confuse the stuff -- not wanting to replace any of it..)04:24
SpeedEvilA bug is marked as a duplicate.04:24
SpeedEvilBut the original bug is fixed.04:24
SpeedEvilAnd the duplicate is not.04:24
MohammadAGneed - global - orientation - fix04:24
SpeedEvilIs this not a duplicate then?04:24
DocScrutinizerhmm04:24
SpeedEvil(https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163)04:25
povbotBug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device.04:25
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: philosophically it's not a duplicate then, if the assumptions are true04:25
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pupniki have the problem with caring about audio and video04:28
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pupnikand the past couple of years has been like watching a fat lady in a razorblade suit dive into a pool filled with children04:30
pupnikin slow motion04:30
jonwilis there any benifit reverse engineering the alarm/clock statusbar item?04:31
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: try ->tablet-mode ->phone-mode. This triggered a GSM time msg and device setting time correctly from GSM, for me04:32
* javispedro notes04:32
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javispedromany people have tried to make a usable & open version of maemo, and many have failed/moved to meego.04:32
DocScrutinizerjonwil: sure there is: select different formats/fontsets04:32
javispedrostart with a small set, and start now.04:32
javispedrootherwise you will soon realise the magnitude of the work to be done and move on =)04:33
jonwilheh, hard work doesnt phase me04:33
pupnikhttp://grammar.about.com/od/alightersideofwriting/a/FazePhasegloss.htm   faze, actually04:34
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Jartzahmm04:38
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163 - the second to last message04:38
povbotBug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device.04:38
SpeedEvilAlso - the above has interesting log entry mentioning cell broadcast04:39
SpeedEvilAlso - confirming bug if you see the same behaviour - does not sync to GPS time. (some places do not broadcast proper times)04:39
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: my comment was in reply to 1016304:41
SpeedEvilyes - there are time messages sent - they are malformed04:42
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DocScrutinizer:nod: carriers are known to send crap04:42
jonwilok, so I have decided to put the following on my RE list: pulseaudio audio routing and policy control (those 4 closed modules), the IncomingCBS DBUS message, the ICD2 policy plugins, the connui-internet-status-menu-item status bar widget, the status-area-applet-battery status bar widget and the usb_plugin status bar widget04:43
SpeedEviljonwil: Great!04:43
jonwilis it worth doing the cellular status bar widget (the other one I was considering)04:43
SpeedEvilI'm unsure.04:44
SpeedEvilI suppose in principle you could add cell-information to it04:45
SpeedEvilsee the package netmon04:45
Jartzahmmh.04:45
SpeedEviland 'live' signal strength.04:45
* jonwil adds connui-cellular-operator-home-item and connui-cellular-status-item to the list then04:46
SpeedEvilI don't see much benefit in those though.04:46
jonwilok, if there is no benefit I wont bother04:46
javispedrowhile we're at it, add connui-iapsettings-wlan04:46
jonwilconnui-iapsettings is the package name04:47
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javispedronope iirc, the're has to be a plugin per iap type04:47
javispedro*there04:47
nox-heh gpsrecorder got a quick fix, nice :)04:47
jonwilany other control panel/settings things worth cloning?04:48
jonwildoubt it04:48
javispedrowell, you'll find reasons for any of them..04:48
jonwilthe wifi I will do04:49
SpeedEvilThe 'alarm' widget in principle could be handy for people writing clones04:49
jonwilsince there is a use case04:49
SpeedEvilI'm not aware of any though04:49
jonwilclear use case04:49
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jonwilok, so the todo is pulseaudio, CBSMS, icd2 policy plugins, connui-internet-status-menu-item, status-area-applet-battery, usb_plugin, connui-iapsettings-wlan04:53
jonwilis connui-conndlgs-wlan usefull for wlan stuff?04:53
jonwilI think it is04:53
javispedroif you're going to rewrite it, you can add the missing eap modes to it04:55
jonwilwell my plan is to just produce a 1:1 clone of these items for now04:56
jonwiland let someone else enhance their functionality04:56
javispedrowell, good luck.04:56
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eichihello, is one of the big repositories down at the moment ? extra devel?05:23
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nox-its doing it again :(05:54
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nox-no hidden ssid notworks configured anymore...05:54
nox-wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request05:54
nox-DocScrutinizer, or do you think i need to reboot the device too?05:54
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DocScrutinizernox-: the comment about hidden SSIDs wasn't meant to cure this particular problem. It's probably unrelated05:59
nox-hm05:59
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DocScrutinizerI guess this issue is caused by AP missing to exactly schedule the times for TX to N90006:01
nox-well its unlikely to be the `ap' too, i still saw several beacon frames intermixed with each probe request/response...06:01
DocScrutinizernox-: first of all, test if the problem vanishes when you set PSM in N900 wlan connection setting to "off"06:02
nox-hmm special scheduling reqs?06:02
nox-ok lets see...06:02
SpeedEvilthe scheduling happens inside the wireless firmeware AIUI06:03
SpeedEvilAnd the AP wireless firmware - it's not low-level06:03
DocScrutinizersure, on both ends06:03
SpeedEvilnot high level06:03
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nox-still ap sends several beacon frames fer second and n900 still doesnt seen them sometimes, thats kinda weird...06:06
nox-s/fer/per/06:07
infobotnox- meant: still ap sends several beacon frames per second and n900 still doesnt seen them sometimes, thats kinda weird...06:07
nox-and n900 was constantly sending probe requests which the ap answered too...06:08
pupnikalien probes06:13
nox-haha06:13
nox-hm and why is it even sending probe requests when no hidden ssids are configured anymore...06:17
nox-and if its bc of n900 powersaving settings would that mean the powersaving stuff is kind of turning off the wifi rx behind the wifi driver's back?06:22
SpeedEvilyes06:23
SpeedEvilthat's how it works06:23
nox-ooh06:23
SpeedEvilthe radio is powered down for 95% of the time06:23
nox-well then i understand...06:23
SpeedEvilIf it works - it's great.06:23
SpeedEvilI get ~a week uptime idle, connected to wifi.06:23
nox-just the constant probes it sends will eat power too, right?06:24
nox-well a week uptime sounds nice06:24
SpeedEvilIt doesn't probe - it wakes up a few times a second to ask if the AP has any packets.06:24
SpeedEvilAt a scheduled with the AP time.06:24
nox-hm06:25
nox-but it sends several packets per second for that?06:25
SpeedEvilI tried to read the details of the wifi spec, but my head exploded.06:25
nox-heh i didnt even read that much of this stuff yet...06:26
SpeedEvilI'm not actually sure if it sends, or if it just wakes and checks for a transmitted packet from the AP06:26
nox-well here it definitely was sending06:26
SpeedEvilIt does have to send fairly frequently so the AP keeps it registered06:26
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SpeedEvilYou get no syslog messages at all06:26
SpeedEvilwhen it's working06:26
nox-yes thats why i thought theres something wrong...06:27
nox-and then i saw the probes/responses intermixed with the beacon frames06:28
nox-which aren't there when its working06:28
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nox-SpeedEvil, did you have wifi powersaving enabled when you got the week uptime?06:36
SpeedEvilyes06:37
SpeedEvilwithout it's more like 20h06:37
nox-hm ok so this test isnt the desired config...06:39
nox-did you have powersaving on `medium' or on `max'?06:39
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SpeedEvilmax06:40
nox-ok thats what i had before too06:40
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management06:40
SpeedEvilsee script in06:40
nox-the one with the bq27x00_battery ?06:42
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nox-oh i also have power kernel could that have something to do with it?06:42
SpeedEvilit should work with and without bq*06:43
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* nox- installs libicd-network-usb too while he has extras-devel enabled07:07
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mediahi07:16
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nox-hm around 300 mA, 150 events07:21
* nox- disables extras-devel again07:24
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SpeedEvilIs that with screen off?07:28
nox-no07:28
nox-and with wifi on07:28
nox-now testing w wifi and screen off07:29
SpeedEvilleave it running in an xterm, and lock screen07:29
nox-i just waited for it to turn off by itself07:29
SpeedEvilOr that07:29
nox-ah thats better, 15 mA, 70 events07:30
nox-now lets see w screen off and wifi on07:31
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nox-wow still 200 mA07:31
nox-and it wasnt even sending anything...07:32
shamusok im thinking the battery is toast on my n800 as it's barly lastign a day in offline mode then agin i recived it with a 350ma charger vs the tipical hevy douty one as that lower power one is "eco frindly" go figure07:33
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SpeedEvilA 350ma one?07:36
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SpeedEvilThat is not hte standard nokia07:36
SpeedEviloh07:36
SpeedEviln800, sorry07:36
SpeedEvilno idea07:36
shamusn900 might be getign the spotlight but n8x0 is still not deat yet07:37
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nox-n800 used a different battery?07:40
kerioshamus: they're both dead as fuck07:41
keriothe n900 is just less rotten07:41
nox-:)07:41
keriowhy, nokia ;_;07:41
nox-ah 20 mA with wifi powersave on max07:46
psycho_oreosiinm n900 is the only one to have a different battery compared to the rest of maemo series07:46
nox-now ill have to wait for the bug to reappear ans check current then...07:47
nox-s/ans/and/07:47
infobotnox- meant: now ill have to wait for the bug to reappear and check current then...07:47
nox-psycho_oreos, oh07:47
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psycho_oreosnox-, and the previous generation had a slightly larger battery, were more readily available. nokia decided to twist our arms with a smaller battery and a completely different variant that shared with x6, 580007:48
nox-:(07:49
mediahey07:51
mediai have openssh installed on my n900. should i set the root pw in order to login as root?07:51
nox-id say you should better disable ssh root logins07:51
nox-(if they arent already)07:52
mediayea. probably better. can i create new accounts just with adduser i guess07:52
SpeedEvilmedia: you get prompted to set a password on installof openssh server07:52
psycho_oreosyou should have gotten ssh status switcher package, that will prompt you to setup root password and provides you easy access to turning on and off sshd07:52
mediaSpeedEvil: i probably forgot07:52
mediaok thanks.07:53
SpeedEvilhmm07:53
nox-and if you're paranoid, use ssh keys07:53
SpeedEvilI'd remove opensshd-client - then reinstall07:53
psycho_oreosits quite easy to disable root login anyway07:54
mediaremoving and reinstalling07:54
mediaim trying to setup meego. need to scp the image to it :)07:55
nox-opensshd-client is to ssh out not to ssh in tho?07:55
mediaremoved all07:55
mediahm dropbear any good?07:55
psycho_oreosI thought it was just simply called openssh-{client,server}07:56
mediayea i used openssh, but i saw another implementaion called dropbear07:57
mediabut im used to openssh, so ill stick to that for now :)07:57
psycho_oreosI've never tried dropbear, wouldn't know how to use it07:57
shamusnever tryed drop bear eather07:57
shamuswas wondering if it would hit the battery less07:58
SpeedEvilnaah07:58
nox-yeah sounds unlikely07:58
shamusas im prity sure i have a roaug deamon or two chewiting thro my battery i know i diabled meta crowler and never enabled modest07:58
SpeedEvilthe main battery use is keeping the radios awake07:59
nox-sshd should only use cpu when someone actually connects to it07:59
psycho_oreostransferring large files over sshd isn't ideal, nor are transferring any system files07:59
SpeedEvilI found out how to get modest to use much less RAM.07:59
nox-yeah ok transfers will eat cpu07:59
SpeedEvilapt-get remove modest07:59
shamushehe good point i do npot even use it08:00
shamusewhy have it08:00
SpeedEvilIt uses ~10-20M of RAM IIRC if you don't use it08:00
shamuso.008:00
psycho_oreosRuskie had a more extreme maemo customisation, cutting down any stuff he doesn't need including all the other locales08:01
psycho_oreosmight even free up more rootfs too08:01
shamuso.008:03
shamusThe following packages will be REMOVED08:03
shamus  camera camera-test hildon-application-framework-rx34-rx4408:03
shamus  libosso-email-interface microphone-test modest multimedia-applications08:03
shamus  osso-filemanager osso-filemanager-ui osso-global-search osso-imageviewer08:03
shamus  osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked08:03
shamusi think not08:03
nox-ok bug is back, now to see the mA08:03
SpeedEvilOdd - I was able to remove modest earlie08:03
SpeedEvilr08:03
shamusdilblo08:04
psycho_oreosyou might be able to remove that single package by holding the other packages08:04
nox-hm 50 mA, still better than the 200 above...08:04
shamusholding?08:05
psycho_oreosecho ``<package> hold'' | dpkg --set-selections08:05
psycho_oreosit prevents automatic updating and may prevent automatic dependency removal08:05
nox-still, 50 mA compared to 15... :/08:08
mediahm, im in. i saw i already had an extra account. seems useradd is not there though08:11
nox-20 mA after reconnecting08:11
psycho_oreosmedia, it is, its under /usr/sbin (meaning root user required)08:11
nox-anyway, need to charge...08:12
nox-bbl08:12
mediapsycho_oreos: ah thanks!08:16
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psycho_oreosmedia, nw08:16
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, any experience with fanoush's bootmenu?08:16
SpeedEvilno08:18
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psycho_oreos*nods* ta, probably fanoush's bootmenu has nothing to do with uboot08:18
nox-and the bug is back yet again... :/08:20
mediahm, for meego i need to dd the memory card, but copying the raw image to n900 first wont fit08:21
nox-now even 70 mA...08:22
mediashould i dd over ssh?08:22
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psycho_oreosI don't think dd over ssh would work08:25
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nox-actually i think it does but netcat would use less cpu08:26
psycho_oreosyou should get a media card writer/reader and dd the content across. There might be another way, that is to shove the image onto n900's /home/user/MyDocs partition08:26
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nox-anyway im off08:27
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mediapsycho_oreos: ok, ill try the last solution. i dont have a card reader08:30
psycho_oreosmedia, how big is the image?08:31
media1.9gb08:32
mediau08:32
mediai just need some way to ssh into the user account08:32
psycho_oreosthat should fit easily onto the large 29GB FAT32 partition08:32
mediasetting a pw on user isnt evil?08:33
psycho_oreosno08:33
mediagreat. its working08:35
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RST38ha109:53
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RobbieThe1stHey guys, what device can I echo a value to to control the multicolor LED?10:38
SpeedEvilIt'smore complexthanthat10:38
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns10:39
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RobbieThe1stSo, hm... without MCE running, how would one do it?10:40
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SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED10:42
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RobbieThe1stAlright, interesting.10:44
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jonwilI am making some good progress reverse engineering connui-internet-status-menu-item11:33
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SpeedEvil:)11:35
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jonwilIt helps that we have example_reminder_status_applet to refer to and that connui-internet-status-menu-item happens to be written similarly to the example11:36
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mikki-kunjonwil: may i ask what connui-internet-status-menu-item does? :)11:38
jonwilIts the status bar UI for WiFi11:38
jonwilor so I was told11:38
jonwiland someone wants to add signal strength reporting to it11:39
jonwilplus its something relatively simple to get started learning reverse engineering of ARM11:39
mikki-kun^^ then i wish you happy RE'ing and lots of fun :)11:40
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Venemohey12:10
VenemoMohammadAG: ping12:11
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psycho_oreosShapeshifter, ping12:37
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SpeedEvilIs there a source for replacement earbuds for the headset, other than the obvious?12:52
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MohammadAGVenemo, happy13:04
MohammadAGbelated birthday13:04
* MohammadAG stabs hildon for taking focus and pressing enter13:04
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alteregoMohammadAG: pong13:14
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MohammadAGalterego, any ideas on how to lower a dialog's height in real time?13:17
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alteregosetFixedHeight13:18
MohammadAGsetGeometry(x(), y(), width(), newHeight) isn't working13:18
alteregoInteresting13:18
MohammadAGit's for rotation13:19
alteregoWhay are you doing this?13:19
alteregoAh yes13:19
MohammadAGit's fine from landscape to portrait13:19
MohammadAGbut from portrait to landscape the dialog's raised13:19
alteregoSo you want to make it smaller?13:19
MohammadAGthen the items are repositioned, so lots of space ends up between the items13:19
alteregoI'd hide/show again13:20
alteregoThat should make it take preferred size13:20
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MohammadAGwouldn't that be visible to the user?13:21
alteregoProbably, try it.13:21
MohammadAGand no, iirc we weren't deleting the dialog every time we close it, and I had the same problem13:21
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alteregoWeird13:22
alteregoUnfortunately I'm not at my computer so I can't test :/13:22
alteregobrb13:23
* MohammadAG tries setFixedHeight()13:23
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pupnik"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far."13:24
pupnik"The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."13:24
RST38hAh! The terror! The suffering!13:25
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pupnikPh'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn13:27
* SpeedEvil does what Wilt does.13:29
SpeedEvilOr something.13:29
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pupnikthe sciences, each straining....13:34
* RST38h suggests a more mundane/terrifying scenario13:34
RST38hScience becomes a routine, making no progress. The economy becomes a routine, slowly making itself insolvent. The society degrades.13:35
dotblankMohammadAG, Are you working on portrait mode support?13:36
alteregodotblank: I'm guessing for mohammedia player13:36
Termanamohammedia player :p13:36
MohammadAGalterego, system-wide's fine by me13:37
MohammadAG:P13:37
pupnikRST38h: you seem to understand this better than almost everyone13:37
RST38hHumans do not go into space, as it is not economically feasible. The computer science stalls at algorithms for lots of sequential turing machines. The medical science stalls due to "ethical concerns"13:37
dotblankI should make my groove program a library much like w00t_  is doing13:37
dotblankthat you can import grooveshark into your player13:37
dotblankthat way*13:37
* SpeedEvil hits RST38h over the head with a falcon-9.13:37
MohammadAGyay13:38
pupniki trhink the medical science runs into the sheer complexity problem - the brain cannot absorb enough to make the deeper correlations13:38
dotblankwhat are you using for audio playback?13:38
RST38hSo, the western society simply winds down, become replaced by more energeticand less fussy Asians13:38
RST38hpupnik: that is too complicated and based on assumptions13:39
RST38hpupnik: there are really much easier and no less depressing end-of-the-world scenarios =)13:39
dotblankGoing into space I think will become very viable when we have a need for helium 313:39
RST38hwe will not have a need for helium 3.13:40
dotblankor was it hydrogen..13:40
TermanaGauging the channel's interest - how many would be interested in a karaoke application that displayed the lyrics to the song and done on-the-fly pitch correction, maybe some other audio effects? (like, Glee Karaoke if you have an iPhone/iPod Touch)13:40
dotblanktritium to be exact13:40
MohammadAGdotblank, mafw13:40
TermanaExcept not gay13:40
alteregoThere's a lot of balls about the N9 lately.13:40
SpeedEvilTermana: I'm not sure it's possible to have non-gay karaoke.13:41
RST38hTermana: nah.13:41
Termanaalterego, balls? I think you mean rumours don't you?13:41
RST38hHe means crystal balls. Don't you have a set?13:41
alteregoI don't believe Nokia are going to move away from OMAP13:42
dotblankWhy have I not heard of mafw before?13:42
dotblankodd13:42
alteregoNokia has a good relationship with TI, I can't see them wanting anything from somehwere else they can already get through their normal TI relations13:43
TermanaRST38h, Ah, mines a bit dusty, but I think it's telling me you're about to experience some coffee enema13:43
RST38hNokia has used non-TI chips in its Symbian^3 phones13:43
alteregodotblank: mafw is maemos' multimedia framework13:43
MohammadAG<Termana> Gauging the channel's interest - how many would be interested in a karaoke application that displayed the lyrics to the song and done on-the-fly pitch correction, maybe some other audio effects? (like, Glee Karaoke if you have an iPhone/iPod Touch)13:43
alteregodotblank: it's basically a dbus api for handling media, playlists and audio routing via gstreamer.13:43
MohammadAGonly if you get a videos.maemo.org13:44
MohammadAGso users can upload their work13:44
Termanaalterego, you can't get x86 chips from TI, if they intended to use x8613:44
alteregoTermana: sure, but that's not this new rumour13:44
alteregoAnd Nokia have shown no interest in atom13:44
TermanaMohammadAG, upload their work? Who said I was going to let people create their own songs and screw up my app with bad music tastes?13:45
MohammadAGyeah, they only used it once - in a netbook13:45
RST38halterego:Nokia has built an Atom-basednetbook before13:45
TermanaSurely everyone wants to sing along to my collection of Justin Bieber?13:45
Termana:P (kidding)13:45
MohammadAGTermana, would be entertaining to watch users sing their library13:45
RST38halterego: And they invested into Meego which is a primarily x86 based Linux distro13:45
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MohammadAG90% will go to the bin of course13:45
alteregoRST38h: not for handset it's not13:46
TermanaMohammadAG, songs would have to be pre-made. You have to have the lyrics and pitch correction in time with the music.13:46
alteregoN900 and arm development is where it's at as far as MeeGo handset development.13:46
MohammadAGTermana, pitch correction? pfft, if your voice sucks don't sing :P13:47
MohammadAG<Termana> Surely everyone wants to sing along to my collection of Justin Bieber?13:47
MohammadAGKICK HIM!13:47
* SpeedEvil starts playing Tatu.13:47
RST38halterego:the "handset"is basically a UI on top of the base OS13:48
RST38halterego: So, yes, handset too (see the Aava reference platform)13:48
MohammadAGthe aava isn't exactly the best way to measure meego's progress :p13:48
pupnikhttp://www.sat24.com/homepage.aspx?culture=de   current cloud patterns over europe13:49
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kerioisn't the aava incredibly l33t13:52
kerio?13:52
MohammadAGso your wallet thinks13:53
pupnika weather 'widget' with satellite+radar for your current location would be useful + cool13:53
MohammadAGI thought there was one, but not a widget13:54
MohammadAGalterego, ta, setFixedHeight() worked13:54
alteregoRST38h: I was merely saying that most development is on the arm side as far as handset is concerned.13:55
MohammadAGwhat would be a bit cool tbh, is a homescreen widget that allows you to launch Qt apps inside it13:55
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MohammadAGthat way, all Qt apps are widget-ified13:55
MohammadAGof course, not all of them will look great13:55
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alteregoRST38h: we can guess as to why that is, but it is the most important configuration for Nokia imo13:55
* MohammadAG hmms http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6876013:56
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alteregoMohammadAG: exactly,14:00
alteregoNokia aren't going to use SE chips for a Cortex A914:00
alteregoThey'll use the OMAP4 from TI ..14:00
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MohammadAGI thought the N9 was an OMAP3 anyway14:03
ShadowJKI'm still betting N9 is omap3 :)14:03
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alteregoShadowJK: yes, unless it's been scrapped14:04
MohammadAGit's a bit late to announce an OMAP3 device tbh14:04
alteregoIt was mentioned that it was an OMAP314:04
alteregoNot for Nokia :P14:04
ShadowJKThe speculation about using the new and yet full of bugs omap4 are kinda funny but..14:04
alteregofull of bugs?14:05
alteregoWhat bugs?14:05
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ShadowJKheck omap3 had been used alot before N900 and we still had the rebooting bug :P14:07
ShadowJKand still don't have dvfs or pm in mainline linux afaik..14:07
alteregoPossibly, but it's all being pushed there through MeeGo so ..14:10
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pupnikthis is one of the better places to talk about mee(TM)go ;)14:15
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pupniki'm pretty happy with omap3640 atm - very thrifty power consumption14:16
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GrimSouLhello world14:17
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alteregopupnik: me aswell, I see my N900 having quite a bit of life left in it.14:19
* SpeedEvil passes alterego the ant-killer.14:19
alteregoI've already done more with the N900 than any of the previous NITs14:20
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alteregoand no sign of slowing down, speeding up if anything, with MeeGo work.14:21
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pupnikit's not impossible to imagine a use for dual-core phones though, esp for a high-end device14:22
pupniki would bet whatever was slated for n9 is the 40nm OMAP 3640 @ 1GHZ14:23
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pupnikit's not like they have a magic skunkworks department generating systems-on-a-chip ahead of TI and the rest of the planet14:25
alteregoWell, that's what they originally stated14:25
pupniki never saw any statements14:25
alteregoI'm sure we'll see dual core omap4s this yeah too.14:26
alterego..year14:26
pupnikmhm14:26
RobbieThe1stKinda sad... I mean, if that's all it's got it's not like it's worth getting..14:26
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RobbieThe1stI can get 1.15ghz out of my n900, if I really try..14:26
SpeedEvilIs there a creditable link to what hw of n9 is likely to be.14:27
SpeedEviln9 is intended to run harmattan?14:27
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, yes14:27
alteregoRobbieThe1st: why isn't it worth getting?14:27
alteregoCPU power isn't everything ...14:27
MohammadAGthey like to call it MeeGo/Harmattan14:27
pupnikfor e.g. look how few people learned to do anything with the DSP14:27
RobbieThe1stSpending more money, for the same or less performance?14:27
pupnika second cortex core means no-brainer multi-threading14:28
RobbieThe1stIt's multi-tasking that's the big deal; not having it stutter when a flash file takes up half of one core14:28
alteregoriiight14:29
alteregoIO is my main gripe with the N900 tbh14:29
alteregoIt's more than powerful enough for me.14:30
RobbieThe1stThat -is- true; having more ram would help14:30
psycho_oreosRobbieThe1st, any progress on backupmenu being made available for uboot? :)14:30
RobbieThe1stI don't know how it would be done, sorry. I -think- you can just use the bootmenu-n900 version along with uboot14:31
RobbieThe1stAnd when you boot into Maemo/internal flash from uboot with the KB open... it'll run14:31
BCMMalterego: yeah, practically nothing that most people do has been CPU-bound for years...14:32
BCMMCPUs are for servers, gaming and video encoding. fast IO (which is harder to get) is for boring things like starting programs14:32
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RobbieThe1stThat's sort of my point too - With a nice dual-core 1ghz processor, heavy emulation and nice gaming would be possible. It's not -quite- good enough now.14:34
psycho_oreosRobbieThe1st, hmm ok, well I'm thinking of installing just backupmenu for now from extras-devel and without uboot.. after making appropriate backups I will go experimenting14:34
RobbieThe1stFair enough14:34
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pupnikRobbieThe1st: emulation is about using the hardware efficiently also - see the work done for pandora - pretty much all doable systems are being done14:42
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alteregoI personally prefer to code than play games14:44
RobbieThe1stPerhaps so. But if there's one thing I've learned about computer systems: If an interface is designed to run at X speed, you need X+2/3 to make it run nicely. For example, at 600mhz the N900 feels sluggish. at 1ghz, it feels nice.14:44
pupniki'd say the same for froyo btw14:45
RobbieThe1stI have this feeling that Meego will be developed for a 1ghz processor. As such, in order to make it -really- responsive, we need far more.14:45
pupniki had a responsive gui on a 25mhz NeXT14:46
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RobbieThe1stYea.14:47
pupnikone way to do it is make your OS prioritize any gui movement properly14:47
pupnikwindows 3.1 did it by giving the mouse a hardware interrupt14:48
RobbieThe1stThat's true; Maemo is surprisingly good at that(at least for me)14:48
alteregoMeeGo handset is being developed on the N900 and when it's configured well, it's a nice smooth experience, as far as transitions and ui components.14:48
alteregoBetter than Maemo for Qt suff14:48
alteregoUnfortunately app start times are awful at the moment :)14:49
RobbieThe1stJust FYI - I was running Ubuntu on a 1ghz PentiumM with 1GB of ram; it's -far- less responsive than Maemo is.14:49
alteregoBut, scrolling a listview looks amazing under meego where as all the tear in maemo makes it look jerky14:49
RobbieThe1st(and Mer is -far- worse than that, for some odd reason[no GPU support?])14:49
alteregoProbably yeah14:50
ZogGhello brothers14:50
alteregoMeeGo has newer sgx drivers so that certainly helps14:50
RobbieThe1stOut of curiosity - Have you tried editing "/etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini" and changing the value to 1?14:50
RobbieThe1stIt makes things feel more "consistant"(far less tearing), but a tad bit more sluggish for me.14:51
alteregoI have not,14:51
alteregoI might just turn transitions off completely tbh :P14:52
RobbieThe1stOut of curiosity, would you mind trying it(I assume you've got your n900 handy)? I'd love to see if it happens to more than just me.14:52
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ZogGhow can i take screenshot in portrait mode?15:31
ZogGwith scrot and timeout?15:31
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lopzhi ;)15:33
ZogGhey15:34
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psycho_oreosmaybe if you're using matan's 9-desktop hack you might be able to with Ctrl+Shift+P15:34
ZogGi see the people are saving shabbas here =)15:34
psycho_oreosshabbas?15:34
ZogGpsycho_oreos how can i as i open keyboard and get landscape15:34
pupnikno work! except to pick up poodles15:34
ZogGwait i can slide half keyboard15:35
ZogGwait15:35
psycho_oreoshmm there's an app you can get to set screenshot in a certain time frame15:35
pupnikwhy would rotation break a screenshot i wonder15:35
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psycho_oreosthe other would be a very ugly hack and that is using x11vnc, connecting to it and then screenshot from the client side of x11vnc15:36
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messertingHi, on my N900 (PR1.3) when I press "update" in the package manager there's no update, but if I do "apt-get update;apt-get upgrade" there is this libillumination0 to be updated15:43
messertingIs it safe to update?15:43
psycho_oreosdepends on which repo that deb file is coming from15:45
messertingpsycho_oreos: how can I tell? Can apt-get be more verbose?15:45
SpeedEvilAs I understand it, apt-get upgrade canbreak your system15:46
SpeedEvilOr is that dist-upgrade15:46
SpeedEvilI forget15:46
messertingTried -V option15:46
messertingGot 0.1.20100215-1 => 0.1.20100702-115:46
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psycho_oreosdist-upgrade can break your system15:46
SpeedEvilIs upgrade safe though?15:47
ZogGpupnik cause you can't press buttons =)15:47
ZogGdamn it mistery15:47
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ZogGi did make screensht15:47
ZogGbut can't find it on device15:47
ZogGit's in photos15:47
ZogGbut where on device? it shows that it;s in screenshot dir15:47
psycho_oreosmesserting, you can append -s for simulate, it may then show where it retrieves the file15:47
ZogGbut i don't see it15:47
messertingpsycho_oreos: ok thx15:48
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MohammadAG<SpeedEvil> Is upgrade safe though? | yes15:56
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messertingOk, apt-get -V -s upgrade gives: Inst libillumination0 [0.1.20100215-1] (0.1.20100702-1 Extras:2.0/fremantle-1.316:05
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jacekowskii bought vodafone sim to play with that cbsms16:27
jacekowskii was expecting that they will require my name or sometihng16:27
jacekowskiand they did16:27
SpeedEvilOh.16:27
SpeedEvilPeople of the UK!16:27
jacekowskibut when i told them that i'm john smith they had no problems with it16:27
SpeedEvilWell - cheap people of the UK.16:28
psycho_oreoshow reliable are their service over there anyway?16:28
SpeedEvilt-mobile is offering a free 'blackberry' SIM, with 500M/mo of data on it, activated when you top up 10 quid16:28
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SpeedEvilfor 6 months16:29
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: dunno i just bought it to test cbsms16:29
jacekowskias they are only uk network that is sending it16:29
psycho_oreosjacekowski, fair enough :) let me know if its shit because vodaphone is getting its arse raped down here ;)16:29
SpeedEvilhttp://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-blackberry-sim-cards/16:29
jacekowskiwhere?16:30
psycho_oreosAustralia, they're getting sued by many people for poor quality16:30
psycho_oreospoor quality, poor service16:30
jacekowskiwhat do you mean by quality?16:30
psycho_oreoscall dropouts, lack of connection when moving from a few metres, etc16:30
jacekowskias in crap signal16:31
jacekowskithat's normal thing here16:31
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psycho_oreosand they had the customer's details database left open here too16:31
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psycho_oreosI wonder if matan released updated hildon-home16:33
jacekowskiJan 22 14:34:31 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: ISI_SMS .465545> resp_cell_broadcast_subscription(): Incoming cell broadcast receive status:0 OK16:34
jacekowskiJan 22 14:34:35 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: ISI_SMS .702941> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast16:34
jacekowskiJan 22 14:34:31 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: com.nokia.phone.net: get_network_time_info returned: y:100 m:100 d:100 h:100 m:100 s:100 tz:100 dl:10016:35
jacekowskitime is still useless on vodafone16:35
jacekowskiJan 22 14:35:26 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: ISI_SMS .548705> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast16:35
jacekowskibut cell broadcast is happening16:36
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psycho_oreoswhat was matan's other repo? not the my.arava.co.il one16:42
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jacekowskihmm16:46
jacekowskianybody familiar with dbus?16:46
jacekowskii see function processing that cell broadcast calling dbus_message_new_signal( "/com/nokia/phone/SMS",  "Phone.SMS", "IncomingCBS");16:47
jacekowskisomething like that16:47
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* SpeedEvil sighs.16:53
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jonwilgetting somewhere with the internet status menu item thing, right now I need to understand the mysteries of gconf17:12
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jonwilRemind me never to take a paid job involving development using glib, gtk, gconf or related libraries, no way could I work with this stuff in a paid environment :)17:14
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alteregoWhy do you need to know the "mysteries" of gconf?17:23
alteregoAnd what don't you get? :P17:23
MohammadAGQSettings/ini > gconf17:24
alteregoQSettings doesn't have events17:24
jonwilreverse engineering gconf is a pain17:24
jonwilspecifically finding out where different gconf entries come from...17:25
alteregoWhy are you reverse engineering open source software?17:25
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MohammadAG<alterego> QSettings doesn't have events17:26
MohammadAGthe signal when a value's changed?17:26
alteregoyes17:26
MohammadAGit's kinda neat, but meh17:26
jonwilI am not reverse engineering gconf17:26
jonwilI am reverse engineering something closed that talks to gconf17:26
MohammadAGgconf's open, why r.e?17:26
MohammadAGi know17:27
MohammadAGoh17:27
alteregojonwil: right, well don't say you're reversing gconf then :P17:27
MohammadAGi see alterego already mentioned that :P17:27
jonwilheh :P17:27
MohammadAGjust string the binary17:27
MohammadAGyou'll get all gconf paths as plaintext17:28
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alteregoYeah, that'd work17:29
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alteregoOr, monitor gconf ..17:29
MohammadAGno need17:32
trumeeOT:is there any way to get to a particular month in gmail.com17:33
MohammadAGjonwil, /system/osso/connectivity/network_type17:33
MohammadAGis the only one in the status menu applet17:33
trumeei want to find emails in March 2008. and i have to wade through all the emails clicking on "Older"17:33
lcukn900trumee advanced search works afaik17:34
trumeelcukn900: thanks17:34
trumeelcukn900: nice one. saved me lot of time :)17:35
lcukn900i hear that a lot.17:36
HRH_H_Crabbah17:37
HRH_H_Crabi think my usb could be on the way out.17:37
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HRH_H_Crabam i right in thinking that if it appears to be o.k. (you get an orange flashing light when charging and the usb icon etc) but it seems to not be charging properly, the connection could be working loose?17:37
buntfalkehi17:38
ShadowJKcould be17:38
HRH_H_Crabbah17:38
ShadowJKwhat does "seems to not be charging properly" mean?17:39
HRH_H_Crabwell it just took forever17:39
buntfalkeHow to configure the repo needed for http://maemo.org/packages/view/libicd-network-dummy/?17:40
buntfalkeHow to configure the repo needed for http://maemo.org/packages/view/libicd-network-dummy/ ?17:40
HRH_H_Crabi kept switching between the computer usb charger and the wall charger and it seems to be charged now17:40
buntfalkeSo, I can see the name, but what are the URLs?17:40
HRH_H_Crabim thinking that the connections not clean but at some point it connected well enough to charge.17:40
ShadowJKcould be the dc adapter too17:40
ShadowJKThere should only be a single yellow flash before the glowing starts17:41
HRH_H_Crabits strange17:41
psycho_oreoswhy are you using libicd-network-dummy when there's libicd-network-null?17:41
HRH_H_Crabbecause it was running while connected to the computer17:41
HRH_H_Craband left overnight to charge17:41
HRH_H_Crabbut as soon as i unplugged it, it signalled the battery was empty17:41
HRH_H_Crabso its like it has enough power to run, but not charge the battery17:42
MohammadAGcould be bme being retarded17:42
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HRH_H_Crabnow, i know that sometimes when the battery is too low you must charge from the wall17:42
MohammadAGhappened to me last week17:42
HRH_H_Crabso id put it down to that.17:42
MohammadAGpopped out battery and put it back in, 80 percent battery17:42
HRH_H_Crabyeah i had that once before17:42
HRH_H_Crabit wouldnt charge i popped battery - all good.17:43
HRH_H_Crabbut this morning that didnt seem to work.17:43
HRH_H_Crab:|17:43
buntfalkepsycho_oreos: Cause that's in -devel and -dummy is in a stable, more trusted repo. Either way -- where to find the URLs for the repo? In case I want something else of it?17:43
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HRH_H_Crabhowever, as i say probably by blind luck it seems fully charged now.17:43
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HRH_H_Crabi might try and invest in a standalone battery charger and avoid using usb altogether.17:43
HRH_H_Crab:|17:43
HRH_H_Crabbloody paranoid about that connection from all ive been reading.17:44
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psycho_oreosbuntfalke, its in nokia-binaries17:45
chiwawa_42Hi ! I'm looking for a way to flash my N900 from anything else than windows. Any hint ?17:45
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buntfalkepsycho_oreos: which is located where?17:45
xDaReaperxHi17:45
HRH_H_Crabchiwawa_42: i think you can flash it from any os that supports tftp17:46
xDaReaperxis there any chances of running Java games ?17:46
xDaReaperxusing MicroEmulator ?17:46
xDaReaperxmore like .jar files17:46
HRH_H_Crabthere is some key sequence that sets it up as a tftp client when you power it on iirc17:46
chiwawa_42HRH_H_Crab: great ! thanks for the hint, i'll look for a howto17:47
chiwawa_42about the OS image, is PR1.3 the latest avaible ?17:47
MohammadAG~flashing17:47
infobotit has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware17:47
MohammadAGyes17:47
psycho_oreosbuntfalke, http://repository.maemo.org17:47
buntfalkeuh. *facepalm*17:49
buntfalkethanks psycho_oreos :-D17:49
psycho_oreosbuntfalke, btw you need a token (once accepted to nokia's eula) for the use of nokia-binaries in scratchbox.. its under http://repository.maemo.org/dists/maemo5.0/nokia-binaries/<token>/nokia-binaries/libi/17:50
psycho_oreoss/dists/pool/17:51
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: buntfalke, btw you need a token (once accepted to nokia's eula) for the use of nokia-binaries in scratchbox.. its under http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/nokia-binaries/<token>/nokia-binaries/libi/17:51
Venemohey guys17:51
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alteregoHappy birthday Venemo17:52
Venemothanks alterego :)17:53
Venemoalterego: how did you know? :P17:53
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buntfalkepsycho_oreos: thanks. what would the advantage of -null be?17:57
buntfalkeexcept for "it's free"?17:57
psycho_oreosbuntfalke, it seems to be recommended as `better' when you are following the guides for setting up USB networking17:58
* buntfalke read that, too17:59
buntfalkestill dunno why though :/17:59
psycho_oreosyou can't read the source of dummy, so how can you really trust it? plus you can't compare the two when there's no sources for dummy18:00
psycho_oreosI think the answer sort of becomes evident18:00
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MrBawbhm, anyone know anything about usb gadget mode?  I'm trying to get my n900 to pretend to be a hid device.  I have the gadgetfs module loaded, but everything trying to use it just segfaults18:01
psycho_oreosits much like using a proprietary driver which uses `black magic' to make it work versus an open sourced driver which hides nothing and can be made verbose to give you more control18:01
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buntfalkepsycho_oreos: oh...the -dummy is not just non-free in the debian sense, it's even closed? I see.18:03
buntfalkethanks18:03
jonwilCan you run a GDB remote on the N900 device (so you can talk to it from a desktop GDB install)?18:03
psycho_oreosbuntfalke, afaik from google searches libicd-network-dummy is available in nokia-binaries.. and nokia-binaries obviously means no source codes18:04
buntfalkejonwil: gdb has a remote protocol which you can push over virutally anything afaik. serial, tcp, ...18:04
jacekowskijonwil: you can18:04
jonwilok, what do I install and run on my N900 then?18:04
jacekowskiapt-get install gdb18:05
buntfalkejonwil: gdb :-)18:05
jacekowskiit's all in manual18:05
buntfalkejonwil: it's nothing n900 special18:05
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Arkenoisomething makes my phone incredibly slow after 2 days uptime.. could be crochik mycontacts..18:06
jacekowskinope18:07
jacekowskiit's known problem18:07
jacekowskiuse swappolube18:08
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RST38h2 days? no.18:13
RST38hand donot use swappolube, it is90% snakeoil18:14
jacekowskiisn't swappolube moving swap around?18:16
RST38hno18:16
jacekowskiok18:16
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: everybody has same token18:18
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buntfalkejacekowski: haha, that's funny :-) i like that idea. (same token)18:21
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TiagoTiagohi18:22
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TiagoTiagodo we have a GUI'd editor for the hardware keyboard on the N900 yet?18:23
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buntfalkeTiagoTiago: i thought i saw one in extras? might misremember...18:24
chiwawa_42damn flashing procedure, I think I messed it up. N900 rebooted after the eMMC althoght i didn't ask for it (no -R). Now, sticking the USB cable while holding the U key does nothing. Any way to recover that ?18:27
chiwawa_42correction, it's back on the bcklit-less "nokia" screen with the USB logo, but flasher is still waiting for device18:29
TiagoTiagothere is one for the symbols virtual keyboard and one for the regular virtual keyboards (which actually is mostly a text editor with error checking and a few other specialized functions), but not for the hardware keyboard itself18:30
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jacekowskichiwawa_42: strange18:37
jacekowskichiwawa_42: power it off18:37
jacekowskichiwawa_42: as in, remove battery18:37
jacekowskichiwawa_42: and wait18:37
TiagoTiagoi remember a while ago someone here said there was one in the works, dunno if it still is18:37
jacekowskichiwawa_42: and try doing it again18:37
chiwawa_42jacekowski: yeah, just did that, i'm installing the flasher on a linux box instead of a mac now18:38
jacekowskiekhm18:38
jacekowskiyou expect it to work on mac18:38
chiwawa_42expectED18:38
jacekowskimac has so fubar usb stack that it makes me want to cry18:38
chiwawa_42well, thought the built a flasher for it, so it *should* have worked18:38
chiwawa_42but you're right, that was foolish of me18:39
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* kerio flashed perfectly fine on os x18:39
chiwawa_42ok, starting over under linux, first step is looking good18:43
HRH_H_Crabchiwawa_42: apologies for putting you on the wrong path with my tftp nonsense and thanks to MohammadAG for putting you right!18:43
chiwawa_42FUCK, second command rebooted the n900 before flashing it...18:44
HRH_H_Crabchiwawa_42: from what i hear it should be pretty tricky to kill it, so just relax and keep going18:44
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chiwawa_42trying again...18:45
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chiwawa_42HRH_H_Crab: no problem, I corrected it when realizing tftp would first require an ethernet port and IP stack, so I looked for "command line flashing n900" and got that right18:47
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chiwawa_42great, it's back alive and up to date; It just scarred the shit out of me18:49
RST38hMinorly hilarious list: https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/blocklist/18:49
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RST38hjavispedro: thanks for the radio! it is the first maemo radio that works for me19:13
MohammadAGwhat's it called again?19:15
javispedrocfmradio19:16
javispedroRST38h: recently updated to fix a bug where it scrolled madly on the presets list19:16
javispedrounfortunately the fix involved going deeper into the gtk+ madhouse so...19:16
MohammadAGwhy do gtk apps start up faster than Qt ones?19:17
javispedrobecause the libs are constantly keep in memory by the system19:17
javispedro*kept19:17
MohammadAGhmm19:17
MohammadAGwhen it says Bluetooth turned on19:18
MohammadAGshouldn't it actually turn on?19:18
MohammadAGoh, worked second try19:18
MohammadAGoh nice19:18
MohammadAGno headset requirement19:18
MohammadAGyay19:18
MohammadAGno kinetic scrolling19:19
MohammadAGthis is awesome19:19
javispedroit has autoscan, and will name presets by the rds data when you first tune into them19:21
MohammadAGwhy does it have more than 107 labeled?19:21
MohammadAGI thought the hardware supported upto 107.919:22
javispedrothat's a not a client app problem, but a kernel driver problem. I just read whatever the kernel says for min/max.19:22
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javispedroon my region at least v4l says 87.5 -> 108.019:27
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MohammadAGhow does fmradio-wide gets all frequencies?19:28
* MohammadAG ponders a modded kernel driver that exposes all ranges19:28
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javispedrothey probably either do that or change the region on the fly19:29
MohammadAGbroadcom radio chip right?19:29
javispedroyep19:30
keriov4l-ctl can select *all* the supported frequencies19:30
keriobut even on region "Other" (which should support everything) the UI still doesn't show 10819:30
kerioit reaches 107.919:30
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MohammadAGor Japan wide band19:30
javispedrowhich UI?19:31
javispedrowith mine on stock europe I can tune to 108.0 just fine19:31
MohammadAG.bottom_frequency= 76000,19:31
MohammadAG.top_frequency= 108000,19:31
keriothe "FM transmitter" dialog19:31
javispedroaaaaah.19:31
ds3maybe it is just writing to the PLL registers?19:31
w00t_dotblank: if you want to use (or contribute) to libgroove in some way, you're welcome19:31
w00t_I don't have much plans to expand it, so19:31
javispedrokerio: I at least was talking about fmrx :)19:32
kerioooh19:32
kerioi see19:32
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keriowho the hell uses that19:32
dotblankw00t_, alright.. its probably a bit outdated since the recent api changes19:33
dotblankbut I havn't checked yet19:33
w00t_dotblank: it works, at least, I have no idea if it's in good condition though :)19:33
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w00t_(I spent last night fixing it)19:33
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dotblankYea I really think libgroove is the way to go19:35
dotblankthen you could implement a file handler too like groove://songid19:35
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pupnik_who has experience with PreENV?20:12
pupnik_http://www.precentral.net/x-plane-9   X-plane 9 for Palm Pre (prenv? N900 also?)20:12
RST38hyes.20:13
javispedroI love that one, btw.20:15
* RST38h is going togive HAWX another try20:16
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RST38hjavispedro: btw, is having a few old-style radio backgrounds completely out of the question?20:17
MohammadAGRST38h, open source, fix it :p20:17
javispedrothe widget is rendered by cairo vector stuff, not by blitting pixmaps, so it might be hard20:18
RST38hMohammad: currently having toruble fixing some non-open-source things...20:18
javispedrounless all you want is the background20:18
RST38hjavispedro: All I want is the background20:18
RST38hjavispedro: no fancy stuff20:18
RST38hAnd I think wazd had the right background somewhere20:19
javispedrowell, I guess that should be easy enough, but I won't put it in the main builds (I personally prefer the current UI so far)20:19
RST38hwhy not make it optional?20:20
RST38hit does not change the UI after all20:20
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javispedroit depends on how gtk+ does it, I'm pondering if I will need to learn about how to make transparent cairo surfaces20:21
RST38hgtk has something like set_bg_bitmap20:22
RST38hfor a widget20:22
jonwilRST38h, what non-open-source things are you having trouble with?20:24
RST38hjonwil: various things.20:24
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javispedrojonwil: so, how's your rewriting maemo thing going? :)20:24
jonwilheh, I am not rewriting maemo, just cloning a few usefull bits that might help people out :)20:25
pupnik_good20:25
jonwilstill knee deep inside libconnui and connui-internet-status-menu-item20:25
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jonwilif libconnui-dev pacakge existed I would be much further along :P20:26
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buntfalkehow to keep the screen from turning off after some time when /not/ connected to the charger?20:30
lardman|homebuntfalke: settings > display iirc20:31
MohammadAGjavispedro, wanna hop on board? :P20:31
lardman|homehey chaps, how's things?20:31
* MohammadAG continues rewriting stock control panel applets20:31
RST38hlardman: gnarly!20:31
lardman|home:)20:31
MohammadAGbuntfalke, simple-brightness-applet, hold the icon in the status menu20:31
* lardman|home has just done oil change and brakes on his car, been a long day's worth20:32
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MohammadAGRST38h, groovy20:32
buntfalkeMohammadAG: thanks20:32
buntfalkelardman|home: that doesnt offer this20:32
buntfalkelardman|home: only "keep illuminated when charging"20:32
lardman|homebuntfalke: gives you a timeout when not charging doesn't it? Also see MohammadAG's post above20:33
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buntfalkelardman|home: ack20:34
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jonwilAfter I get somewhere with this applet (or if I decide to stop and move onto something else20:39
jonwilthen I will have a go at battery appley20:39
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jonwilapplet20:39
jonwilthat is status-area-applet-battery20:39
jonwilwhich should be fairly simple20:40
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johnsqHi21:05
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DocScrutinizerbuntfalke: simple brightness applet21:08
DocScrutinizeroh21:09
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DocScrutinizernm21:09
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piggznightmare, n900 has now been in for repair for ~10 days! using an aged nokia 580021:17
Venemopiggz: I agree, it is a nightmare21:17
piggzaltho, nokia maps works! ;) .... closely follwoing the ovi maps thread21:18
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Venemohehe21:19
Venemodoes anyone have any experience with lvm?21:19
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jacekowskii do21:21
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trumeeVenemo, any plans of bumping sticky notes to extras?21:30
Venemotrumee: yes21:30
Venemotrumee: it didn't happen yet though21:31
Venemotrumee: do you think the current release is stable enough?21:31
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trumeeVenemo, i am using yellow notes now after a recent reflash. it was working well before21:31
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trumeeVenemo, have stopped using things from -devel atm.21:32
Venemotrumee: ah, understandable21:32
Venemotrumee: you can dl the .deb from the package interface21:32
* trumee has crazy logic that apps from devel screw up Sip on the device21:33
trumeeVenemo, nobody had compaints about it on tmo21:33
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trumeeVenemo, after your last update21:33
Venemotrumee: okay, you convinced me :)21:34
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Venemojacekowski: the situation is already solved, but thanks :)21:34
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MohammadAGalterego, http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/rotatedlabel/blobs/master/qrotatedlabel.cpp :P22:25
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DocScrutinizer51~botsnack22:57
infobotDocScrutinizer51: thanks22:57
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maemo__hello23:50
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ArGGu^^hi23:55
ArGGu^^aa he quit already :S23:56
ArGGu^^spend whole day to figuring how to get current artist and title from maemo mediaplayer :S23:58
ArGGu^^via dbus I mean23:59
MohammadAGmetadata-changed23:59
MohammadAGoh23:59
MohammadAGget23:59
ArGGu^^MohammadAG I got working23:59
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ArGGu^^but spend the damm whole day for it :S23:59

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