IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-01-17

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andre__Robotnixon: what is BBM or whatsapp? maybe describe the functionality instead?00:01
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MohammadAGandre__, BlackBerry Messenger is BBM00:02
MohammadAGWhatsApp is a rip off, imo00:03
MohammadAGyou need internet on both devices, and you send SMSs00:03
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MohammadAGhaving skype/MSN or another IM is equal to the functionality00:03
MohammadAGbut sadly, fart apps are successful on iPhones, so it became a trend00:03
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andre__so basically Avahi/Bonjour/Zeroconf?00:03
MohammadAGno, it's not called IM to the user, it's called SMS00:04
MohammadAGfrom a technical point of view...00:04
MohammadAGthey're the same00:04
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andre__ah, so basically Avahi/Bonjour/Zeroconf with some string changes (s/IM/SMS/)? :-P00:04
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MohammadAGoh and they take your mobile number and full name to make your "username"00:06
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RobotnixonI would rather use something like msn or skype anyday00:06
MohammadAGothers search for your username using the number stored on the server00:06
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MohammadAGit's like a mini-facebook privacy-wise00:06
Robotnixonbut seeing that "the world" is no inclined to that kinna stuff00:06
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Robotnixonand all of my "normal" friends have blackberrys and are constantly using bbm00:07
MohammadAGyou need new friends :P00:07
Robotnixoni figured there is nothing really stoping the n900 from gaining that funtionality right?00:07
MohammadAGyeah, except BlackBerry M. being for BlackBerries, and WhatsApp being closed source00:08
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MohammadAGyou need to ask the companies to come up with an app, and seeing how development is discouraged on Maemo 5, it's a lost cause00:09
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MohammadAGunless they do it in Qt for MeeGo etc etc00:09
Robotnixonwell we dont really need one00:09
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RobotnixonI mean find another phone that has all the proticals built in so seamlessly like on the n90000:10
RobotnixonI honestly just want to be able to laugh at there dumb phone message system by showing them that I can run it on mine00:11
Arkenoiwow. there is software for iVirt that allows reading SMS and IM. iVirt is damn expensive, but..00:11
alteregoI thought BBM was reverse engineered?00:13
alteregoAt least I could have sworn there was a BBM app for symbian00:13
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Arkenoibut $350 for a digital watch.. hell, my watch phone was $150 two years ago.00:16
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alteregoInteresting to see all the MeeGo core apps use handcoded UIs00:32
* Venemo_N900 tried skype video call today on n900, and it worked00:32
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alteregoOh, I suppose MTF doesn't work in Qt Designer.00:32
Venemo_N900alterego: mtf doesn't have a designer00:32
alteregoObviously ..00:33
Venemo_N900alterego: and that stuff also precedes QML00:34
alteregoSure, two completely different things though00:35
alteregoThe fact is, currently MeeGo 1.2 uses MTF00:35
alteregoNot QML00:35
alteregoSo any apps developed for 1.2 should use MTF00:35
alteregoDespite what anyone says :P00:35
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Venemo_N900but it also supports qt 4.7 which also supports qml00:36
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alteregoMeeGo doesn't support QML yet though00:36
alteregoNot really.00:36
alteregoNot until Qt Components is released and included.00:36
alteregoIt's fine for the odd app that doesn't need to look and feel like the MeeGo UX00:36
alteregoBut if you're writing MeeGo UX apps then MTF is the only real option.00:37
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alteregoAnd I'm working on a small utility to manage cellular data connections.00:38
javispedroRST38h: managed to test the non-acrobatic hildon-desktop?00:38
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alteregoInteresting, MeeGo seems to automagically absorb service configuration messages :)00:41
GeneralAntilles. . . .00:41
Venemo_N900javispedro: non-acrobatic hildon-desktop00:41
* GeneralAntilles wonders why his desktop keeps randomly rebooting when he's not home.00:41
Venemo_N900javispedro: ?00:41
javispedroVenemo_N900: without the rotation animation00:41
Venemo_N900javispedro: transition disabled?00:42
javispedrono, code removed, in an effort to make it faster...00:42
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Venemo_N900if timeout is set to 0, the transition will be disabled00:43
Venemo_N900(in transitions.ini)00:43
Venemo_N900javispedro: can I play multiplayer with N900 openttd and pc?00:43
javispedronot really, it will be relayout gtk+ apps 3 times00:43
javispedroVenemo_N900: tell me =)00:43
AranelAny advices on non-profit hosting? Our website @ MeeGoTurkey is hungry for more RAM (=money) which I don't have.00:44
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Venemo_N900javispedro: tell what?00:44
javispedroVenemo_N900: if it works00:44
Venemo_N900Aranel: oh. havent tried00:44
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Venemo_N900javispedro: couldn't we fix it to relayout only once?00:46
javispedrothat's the non-acrobatic h-00:46
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javispedrohowever, it's not yet acceptably fast. so next step would be to try to see how it invokes xrandr00:47
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lardman|homehmm, broken N900 really is a pita for testing00:52
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lardman|homewell I'm going to take the lack of a response to mean they don't want it back, so I'll try to send it off to get it repaired00:55
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lardman|homedamn, checking with IMEI it was in warranty, with WLAN MAC it's out of warranty (not unsurprisingly)01:00
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SpeedEvillardman|: good luck01:00
SpeedEvillardman|: where is this warranty checker.01:01
keriowait, why?01:01
SpeedEvilI feel tempted to send in my n900.01:01
kerioalso all N900s are still under warranty, aren't they01:01
kerioi seriously need to fix mine01:01
SpeedEvilI dunno - I am unsure - I thought I rememberred a 1 year warranty01:02
SpeedEvilbut the product page says 201:02
lardman|homemine's more than a year old01:02
lardman|homeoh right01:02
lardman|homedoes *#06# work on the N900?01:03
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lardman|homeif so, which of the numbers does it give?01:03
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Venemo_N900lardman|home: try it. it works01:04
lardman|homeVenemo_N900: phone doesn't work, hence my trying to get it fixes01:04
lardman|homealterego: thanks01:04
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SpeedEvilthe original proof of purchase,  which clearly indicates the name and address of the seller, the date and  place of purchase, the product type and the IMEI or other serial  number.01:07
lardman|homeok, with my IMEI it's in warranty01:07
SpeedEvilI'm fairly sure I don't have that01:07
alteregoApparently mine is still in Warranty :)01:07
lardman|homedoes one need all of the above?01:07
SpeedEvilIt says so on the warranty page you linked01:07
lardman|homehmm, I didn't read the small print01:07
SpeedEvilI don't know how flexible they are.01:08
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* alterego begs forum nokia for an N801:08
SpeedEvilThey can't legally require something it's not reasonable for you to have though.01:08
Venemo_N900alterego: what for?01:08
lardman|homeI guess I should give them a ring and ask then01:09
alteregoCross platform development :P01:09
lardman|homeah, it only says if possible bring a proof of purchase01:09
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Venemo_N900alterego: :)01:10
Venemo_N900alterego: yeah I want a symbian device too to port puzzle-master01:10
Venemo_N900alterego: probably the department of applied informatics can lend me one though :)01:12
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lardman|homehmm, filled out the form and it bumped me and is now saying the system is unable to check01:21
lardman|homeI'll have to phone them up tomorrow I think01:21
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* SpeedEvil checks, and finds his nokia care points are 50 miles away.01:22
SpeedEvilThat's not really very caring.01:22
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Venemo_N900where do you live SpeedEvil?01:22
SpeedEvilFife, Scotland.01:23
SpeedEvilThe nearest ones are glasgow/edinburgh01:23
lardman|homeI couldn't get that map thingie to load01:24
lardman|homestuck on "loading Store Types..."01:25
SpeedEvilOf course, it offers a free download of the new version of ovi maps.01:25
Venemo_N900bye now guys, and good evening01:26
* lardman|home fires up IE as FF4 doesn't seem to like that page01:26
lardman|homecu Venemo_N90001:26
Venemo_N900everyone have a nice day tomorrow :)01:26
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alteregoInteresting, so meego test is down using 'rpm'01:27
alteregoI wonder if the maemo test uses 'dpkg'01:27
* lardman|home heads for bed01:32
lardman|homewill let you know how I get on with Nokia's warranty dept tomorrow01:32
alteregoThat's annoying .. Wont install my RPM01:32
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jacekowskii spoken once with somebody from scotland with very funny accent01:32
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SpeedEvilWas it welsh?01:33
jacekowskinah it was scottish01:34
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yaccJust wondered, by does the event database do not store an end_time for outgoing calls?01:40
Paulytrying to port qtwitter to maemo 5 using qt creator but im not sure about depencies01:40
yaccOk, seperate table, ...01:42
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Paulyis there a way i can build it without dependencies01:43
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yaccOk, no seperate table, so I still wonder how to get the duration of a call from the events db.01:44
Paulyi see all it needs is qoauth and qca but qca and qoauth are already copiled for maemo 5 but are named with an lib in front of them.01:46
MohammadAG51just edit debian/control01:47
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Paulysry as u can see ive really never compile anything01:48
Paulythank u01:48
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* alterego contemplates porting columbus to MeeGo ..01:51
* MohammadAG51 yawns01:51
jacekowskiwhat's the point01:52
jacekowskimeego will be obsolete soon01:52
jacekowskipeople said same things about maemo01:52
jacekowskiand where are we now01:52
jacekowskisame thing will happen to meego01:53
alteregoActually, I always thought Maemo was a research project.01:53
alteregoWe've known Maemo was a research project since the get go.01:53
PaulyMohammadAG51: sry again but qt creator wont build the pro file to make debian package? im lost i been reading faqs all day lol01:53
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trumeei am playing some music over bluetooth. How do i find out how much cpu is the bluetooth eating up?01:55
PaulyMohammadAG51 should i be using scratchbox instead? because im running qt creator on windows 701:55
BCMMtrumee: top?01:55
trumeetop is not showing anything related to bluez01:55
MohammadAG51that's what i'm used to01:56
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PaulyMohammadAG51  i think so cause it should be a simple port because it was already ported to diablo01:57
Paulyand all the dependencies are already compiled for maemo501:58
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DocScrutinizertrumee: why should bluez eat any cpu cycles?02:20
DocScrutinizertrumee: aiui audio gets streamed to the BT chip quite in a similar way it usually gets streamed to AIC34 soundcard02:21
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Paulyim reading maemo5 sdk virtual image wiki trying to figure this out02:24
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DocScrutinizerPauly: I think that's an image for vmware et al, and afaik it's rather bitrotten and hard to update02:26
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jonwildoes anyone know how to send isi/phonet messages to the cell modem on the N900 inside fremantle/maemo? The MeeGo ofono device-specific code for the n900 claims to have cell broadcast SMS code and I want to see if I can get the same to work on the N900 inside fremantle02:28
jonwile.g. via a libcbsms or something02:28
BCMMjonwil: does anybody actually broadcast those?02:30
jonwilMy operator uses it to broadcast a name for the cell tower02:31
jonwilwhich is usually the suburb the tower is in02:31
jonwilor a name like "Perth Airport"02:31
BCMMoh, that's how those work02:31
BCMMmy nokia 3410 was able to know the names of cell towers02:32
BCMMsadly, O2 didn't seem to use those, but I saw them abroad a few times02:32
BCMMit was kinda useful02:32
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BCMMi was wondering if i could see those on the n900 (and if t-mobile has them)02:32
jonwilHence the wish to figure out how to send the isi/phonet messages02:32
jonwilto see if I can replicate the sequence used by the isi modem for cbsms02:33
jonwilI mean the isi modem driver in ofono02:34
jonwilhmmm, maybe I should make a post about my idea. Not sure if it would be better on or on the maemo-developers list02:35
alteregodefinitely maemo-developers :P02:36
jonwilso maemo-developers is where all the gurus hang out?02:36
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alteregoYeah, pretty much.02:37
alteregoLess static from normal users aswell.02:37
jonwilok, great02:37
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jonwilGiven the number of people in here that didnt know what CBSMS was used for, I shall add that bit to my message so its clear why its worth having support for it02:42
muellisoftAh. I'm going nuts with scratchbox, dh7 and python-setuptools. I am hit by that problem: but following these instructions doesn't fix it. It works locally, but not for the builder. weird02:42
PaulyDocScrutinizer: im trying to compile a qt app for maemo502:43
muellisoftI also use debhelper7 which adds another dimension of problems, I feel.02:43
javispedromuellisoft: what's your app's package name?02:44
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muellisoftjavispedro: pwnitter. Feel very free to fix it ;-)02:44
muellisoftIt's really annoying me.02:44
javispedrounfortunately, I see that the last build was OK?02:45
muellisoftjavispedro: the builds are fine ;-) The builder just puts the wrong shebang for some very weird reason02:46
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muellisoftjavispedro: any idea?02:50
javispedrokeep trying for the time being02:53
muellisoftwell. I can't concentrate anymore anyway. So I'm packing up. Thanks anyway.02:55
jonwilok, I posted to the list regarding my idea for Cell Broadcast SMS02:55
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jonwiland I explained why having CBSMS support would be of value (i.e. cell tower IDs/names)02:55
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jonwillets hope the gurus can help with some of the deep level know-how required to talk to the cellular modem.02:56
javispedromuellisoft: still there?02:56
javispedromuellisoft: your build-depends are mostly empty, this can't be good.02:56
muellisoftjavispedro: yes02:56
javispedromuellisoft: try depending on python2.5-dev or the like02:57
Paulyi cant build anything im soo sad i think im retarded or something02:58
javispedrosince you're not installing any version of python, the autobuilder is likely using the SB one (since there's no other one)02:58
muellisoftjavispedro: nah. dependencies are fine. It's some scratchbox environment issue. You don't much to "build" Python packages anyway02:58
javispedromuellisoft: try it =)02:58
javispedromuellisoft: you need the python interpreter to install it, as I see. that means it depends on python.02:58
muellisoftjavispedro: you might have a point.02:59
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muellisoftokay. I'm adding python-runtime | python2.5-runtime  as build dependency as Hermes does that as well.03:00
muellisoftAnd I'm submitting the package and leavign for my bed.03:01
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javispedromuellisoft: it worked03:13
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javispedroaw, he just left.03:13
javispedronext time I'm requesting payment beforehand :)03:14
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javispedrosomeone is mirroring extras-devel03:28
javispedroincluding non-free.03:28
jonwilI see no reason why N900 cant do CBSMS on Fremantle, everything indicates the kernel and cellmo firmware can do it when MeeGo is installed :)03:29
jonwilits just a matter of writing code for it :P03:29
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SpeedEvilhave you tried it on the n900?03:32
jonwilSomeone at Nokia wrote code specifically for the n900 that pertains to cbsms. So presumably that person had info that it is compatible and would work.03:33
javispedronot really03:33
jonwilAs for actually trying it, that's why I made the list post03:33
javispedron9 will continue using phonet03:33
jonwilwell this code was in a file called n900.c03:34
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javispedrowhat code?03:34
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jonwilthat contains a call to ofono_cbs_create in it03:35
jonwilwhich is specifically for cell broadcast03:35
javispedrogood point.03:35
DocScrutinizerstill it might need a cellmo fw update, to work on N90003:38
javispedroI do not think meego comes with one..03:38
jacekowskiquestion is03:39
jacekowskiwhat is that cbsms03:39
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jacekowskiand what's the point of it03:39
DocScrutinizerwhich of course would be installable for maemo as well, as soon as it would be published for meego03:39
jacekowskiand does any network support it03:39
jonwilits used when towers send a tower name or suburb or postcode or coordinates03:39
jonwilfor one thing03:39
javispedroDocScrutinizer: (being pessimistic) internal cellmo fw to put meego ofone to a test; never released publicly03:39
SpeedEvilMany providers use cell-broadcast SMS03:39
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: my thoughts03:40
jonwilWe need someone running (or willing to run) MeeGo or ofono on their N900 who can test it out and see what happens, that would answer it once and for all.03:40
javispedrorunning meego is not a black art these days, see #meego =)03:41
DocScrutinizerthough - not intending to be overly pessimistic - I jst say we need an actual test03:41
SpeedEvilAnd whos provider sends cbsms03:41
jonwilmine uses cbsms03:41
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jonwilwell I posted to the devel list, maybe that will shake something loose03:42
DocScrutinizerI doubt03:42
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DocScrutinizeryu should give meego a try. It's allegedly painless to install dualboot, and you're da man that knows about the meego CBSMS03:43
jonwilisnt there a way to run meego from a memory card?03:43
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jonwilgot a link to the howto?03:44
javispedroyou can run it without flashing the boot loader even, if that's what you mean03:44
DocScrutinizerit's the preferred way03:44
javispedrousual procedure is flash a bootloader the run it from the mmc card03:44
DocScrutinizer and siblings will reveal sth I guess03:45
jonwilI dont have a memory card reader that reads microsd :(03:46
javispedrooh, you have one03:46
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BCMMjonwil: do you have an n900?03:46
jonwiloh ok, so you can use the N900 to prepare the memory card?03:46
DocScrutinizerFSCKNG MEEGO WIKI!!! even case sensitive, not to mention missing index pages, e.g. for >
BCMMeven if you can't, doesn't it export the uSD slot as USB mass storage?03:47
jonwilbut that doesnt let you run fdisk etc on it03:47
javispedroit dos03:48
BCMMyou can't run fdisk on MSC devices?03:48
javispedroonly for muSD though03:48
BCMMMSC things are block devices03:48
jonwilin any case I might play with some stuff later and see what shakes loose03:48
DocScrutinizernice :-P >>NOTE: Read the whole guide before doing any steps from this guide to make sure you understand everything.<<03:49
javispedroDocScrutinizer: a sane disclaimer03:49
DocScrutinizershould get standard on each and every page03:49
DocScrutinizerin whole web :-D03:49
javispedropretyt much03:49
jonwiltop of my list is that I plan to take the list of packages on my n900 (from /var/lib/dkpg/info) and remove from that list all the ones which exist in the "free" repo. Then after that I will see from the list of whats left if there is anything else thats open source in the meego repos03:50
jonwilala the way I found MCE in the meego repos03:50
javispedronote also that guide does not mention uboot, it stops leaving the n900 kernel intact03:50
javispedrojonwil: start from here03:50
jonwilyep, I saw that page03:51
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javispedroimho I'm not expecting surprises03:51
jonwilfinding open mce code was a surprise :)03:51
javispedronot for me though, I thought it was already open =)03:52
jonwilnope, it wasnt03:52
DocScrutinizerI adore the SIGUSR1 detour - for sure it's confusing hell out of noobs :-P03:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: blame Stallman, for not adding --verbose to dd03:55
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DocScrutinizerdd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null& pid=$!; kill -USR1 $pid ; # PRICELESS03:56
DocScrutinizeresp without proper explanation or any suggestion about ^C03:56
javispedrothat will just start dd, then print something equivalent to "0% done; but copying at ludicrous speed"; then hang (while dd copies)03:57
javispedroof course, all the user sees is 0%.03:57
javispedrounless he keeps sending USR1..03:58
BCMMat least on bash, you mean pid={!}03:58
DocScrutinizerfrom another term: ""kill -USR1 $pid ""  won't even work :-P03:58
BCMMi mean, pid=${!}03:58
DocScrutinizerthis is NOT windows, env vars are NOT global03:58
BCMMenv vars are global on windows?03:59
javispedronot on nt03:59
DocScrutinizerNFC, what's windows ? :-D03:59
BCMMi was gonna say, people use those for all sorts of stuff in .bat s03:59
SpeedEvilThe underlying cbs.c has only intel copyrights, and refers only to a qualcom modem03:59
javispedroSpeedEvil: not atmoded, isimodem04:00
DocScrutinizerpop goes the bubble04:00
BCMMthat'd be a fantastic race condition... another program is trying to use your loop variable "i"04:00
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SpeedEviljavispedro: ah04:01
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* DocScrutinizer really gets a headache trying to figure why everybody and his dead dog suggests ""sudo gainroot""04:02
BCMMDocScrutinizer: suggests as in says it's the correct way to get root?04:03
DocScrutinizerhas nobody ever done a simple ""cd"" after ""sudo gainroot" and then mused about where that got him?04:03
BCMMand does /usr/bin/root count as a dead dog?04:03
DocScrutinizerBCMM: err sorry?04:04
SpeedEviljavispedro: I was meaning that the cbs stuff does not seem to have come from nokia, so its inclusion may not mean that there is cbs support04:04
BCMMDocScrutinizer: the root command is a script that says "exec sudo gainroot --use-su"04:05
BCMMwithout a hashbang, weirdly04:05
javispedroSpeedEvil: this one says "Nokia".04:05
DocScrutinizerBCMM: if I got you right then you got it wrong: /usr/bin/root has ""exec sudo gainroot --use-su""04:05
DocScrutinizerwhich is the correct way to get root, while a mere ""sudo gainroot"" is EVIL04:06
BCMMoh, you mean it's wrong if you don't ---use-su. nm04:06
DocScrutinizeras it keeps env of "user"04:06
BCMMi didn't know the env determined the homedir04:06
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javispedrotheoretically, it keeps whatever env the sudoers file says04:06
javispedroon Maemo, that is HOME, DISPLAY <period>04:07
* javispedro would like to upgrade sudo since recent versions have per-cmd line environment-to-keep lists 04:08
DocScrutinizerthe missing shebang is actually strange and probably another fsckng busyboxism04:08
javispedromeaning you can properly make sudo -s discard HOME..04:08
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: due to the fact sudo also gives you a new shell, this new shell will deal with all the rest of your env, via ~/.profile04:09
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i don't understand at all... i thought that things other than native binaries were executed either by invoking the interpreter defined in the hashbang, or using BINFMT_MISC04:10
BCMMi really hope they haven't set that up to execute everything with /bin/sh...04:10
DocScrutinizerBCMM: welcome to the club. it works in bash as well04:10
BCMMDocScrutinizer: sorry, what works in bash as well? /usr/bin/root?04:11
BCMMreading the hashbang isn't the shell's business, is it?04:12
DocScrutinizererr, it's not afaik04:12
DocScrutinizerthat's a clib or kernel thing04:13
javispedroI suggest you read your nearest posix spec04:13
DocScrutinizerlinldr or what's it called04:13
BCMMDocScrutinizer: oh good, i was just feeling too embarrased to ask if it was libc or the kernel :)04:13
javispedroiirc the entire shebang thing is completely non-standarized04:13
toresbeThe shebang is in the kernel on Linux04:13
javispedrothe standard dictates that the shell runs non-recognized binary files, period.04:14
BCMMthat's why that works04:14
DocScrutinizerduh WUT?04:14
toresbejavispedro: the shebang is registered as a binary format in the kernel04:14
DocScrutinizershell will "source" any binary garbage?04:14
BCMMjavispedro: so if it doesn't have a shebang and isn't one of the formats the kernel recognises, it just gets executed by the shell?04:15
DocScrutinizerthis sounds utterly odd04:15
BCMMhow does that work? hasn't the shell already given up control to the kernel by the time somebody works out if it's a kernel-supported format or not?04:15
javispedroI do not remember the exact wording, but it was something like that04:15
SpeedEvilstrace ./f04:16
SpeedEvilexecve("./f", ["./f"], [/* 44 vars */]) = -1 ENOEXEC (Exec format error)04:16
SpeedEvil(random garbage, bash)04:16
javispedroSpeedEvil: "the shell"04:16
DocScrutinizerthen shell should throw syntax errors on random garbage files04:16
SpeedEvilsame with 'ls' in it04:16
posixguys, the Nokia Ovi Suite won't allow you to upload musics to the N900 flash? it only shows the memory card04:16
posixanything i can do to force it to write to the phone memory?04:16
BCMMso how does binfmt_misc decide what to launch? magic numbers?04:16
javispedro$ dd if=/dev/urandom of=test bs=512 count=104:17
javispedro$ chmod a+x test04:17
SpeedEviljavispedro: what I did04:17
javispedro$ ./test04:17
javispedro./test: línea 1: error sintáctico04:17
javispedroLANG=C => syntax error04:17
SpeedEviljavispedro: shell?04:17
DocScrutinizeryes :-P04:17
SpeedEvilbash here04:17
toresbeBCMM: binfmt_misc is one of the format identifiers in the kernel, there are others04:18
DocScrutinizersorry for lame pun04:18
BCMMtoresbe: yes, but it's the one that supports the use of plugins to run "interpreters" for stuff04:18
javispedronevertheless, note that I thought this was one piece of dark trivia in the posix (or was it sus?) standard04:19
javispedroI did not think bash would implement it =)04:19
BCMMit allows you to do things like make ./foo.exe start wine04:19
toresbeAs I'm brushing my teeth I don't feel like a thorough check of the kernel code but I'd assume it checks for ASCIIness.04:20
DocScrutinizerkernel mimetypes \o/04:20
javispedrotoresbe: not the kernel, the shell04:20
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SpeedEviltoresbe: here at least - ls\n will not execute04:20
DocScrutinizerit checks for ""#!""04:21
javispedrotoresbe: if you try a c app with exec() call, you will ENOEXEC as SpeedEvil saw above04:21
BCMMjavispedro: any idea at which point something decides to let the shell deal with it, rather than the kernel?04:21
toresbeI would assume the kernel gets a go first.04:21
SpeedEvilas the shell04:21
BCMMhang on, do you mean the running shell gets it, or the posix shell, /bin/sh?04:22
SpeedEvilexe-rwxr-xr-x 1 user users 3 2011-01-17 02:16 f04:22
SpeedEvilbash-3.1$ strace ./f04:22
SpeedEvilexecve("./f", ["./f"], [/* 44 vars */]) = -1 ENOEXEC (Exec format error)04:22
DocScrutinizersee file (1), magic (5)04:22
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javispedroSpeedEvil: strace does not use the shell to exec f but calls exec() directly04:22
toresbebut f is random data, right? So not very ASCII?04:22
javispedrotoresbe: yes, kernel gets a go first.04:23
javispedroexecve("/home/javier/test", ["/home/javier/test"], [/* 52 vars */]) = -1 ENOEXEC (Exec format error)04:23
javispedroopen("/home/javier/test", O_RDONLY)     = 304:23
toresbeanyway, bedtime. Buenos noches, señores y señoras. Or something.04:23
javispedro(on $ strace bash -c "/home/javier/test" )04:23
toresbeLa llama es un cuadrupedo.04:24
javispedroah, dark unix trivia =)04:24
javispedrocompletely useless04:24
javispedroif you ever wanted to know about dark windows trivia, see
* javispedro is going to grab it for bedtime tonight04:25
javispedro(dark windows trivia also completely useless, ofc)04:26
toresbeIf I wanted to become familiar with strange decisions made by the Microsoft developer team in the mid-1980s, I'd boot Windows 7.04:26
javispedrohey, I'd love the kind of decisions they make because idiot devs assumed something they should't have assumed04:27
javispedrolike the guy who saw that pids got reused at 65536, assumed this meant pid_t was 16 bit04:27
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javispedromakes you want to punch them in the face04:27
toresbeif you think observing their design is painful, try using it in a professional context.04:28
BCMMtalking of windows oddity that won't go away, can anybody explain COM1 and NUL?04:28
DocScrutinizerudev rules, anybody?04:28
toresbeSpeaking of a professional context; bedtime!04:28
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nox-BCMM, comes from dos (or cp/m even?)04:29
DocScrutinizerCP/M \o/04:29
BCMMspecifically, why it is impossible to rename a file to either04:29
BCMMand what on earth will happen if i create a file with such a name using NTFS-3g?04:29
javispedrobecause "the shell is smarter than you" reasons04:29
javispedrothere's no technical reason on nt anymore04:30
DocScrutinizerBCMM: what will happen? of course your HDD will explode ;-D04:30
nox-javispedro, cmd.exe and `smart' in one sentence? :)04:30
javispedrobut someone is his infinite wisdom decided to prevent you doing that just in case.04:30
DocScrutinizerprotecting the ancestors04:31
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javispedroor the idiot devs, as per above04:31
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DocScrutinizeriirc you really can bring down a win98 with a disk that has a file */COM104:32
nox-and btw did you know that windows also used 32bit crc as `secure hash' in at least once place? :)04:32
chxi doubt it's just cmd that stops you from accessing those files04:32
chxi suspect somethign way, way deper04:32
javispedrochx: it's the graphical shell, explorer.exe04:32
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chxonly that deep?04:33
javispedrochx: unless you're talking about 9x, in which case: everything.04:33
chxnot the vfs driver?04:33
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DocScrutinizerchx: exactly04:33
javispedrothey're idiots, but not that idiot.04:33
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: they *Are* not maybe, but they *have been*04:33
chxwell, you know, you can't put a slash in a unix filename04:33
chxnor, i think, a chr(0)04:33
BCMMchx: COM1 seems to actually still exist, at some level, since "edit com1" hangs CMD04:34
javispedroedit is probably a dos app?04:34
chxtry sending some data to the serial port04:34
javispedrodoes it run under 64 bits?04:34
BCMMjavispedro: yeah, it's the old DOS text editor04:34
chxtry smthng like notepad or i dunno04:34
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nox-<DocScrutinizer> javispedro: they *Are* not maybe, but they *have been* - thats also what i think04:35
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DocScrutinizeractually the COMn, NUL, PRT bug has a beard to the toes and once been really nasty04:36
BCMMchx: heh, notepad com1 produces a dialog saying "incorrect function"04:36
javispedroeither way, time to go04:37
chxthere were malware using those names, cant remember what04:38
DocScrutinizerAnd I still believe in creating a file /ms/is/gashead/NUL on a floppy and inserting that into a win<NT box will cause it to emit magic blue smoke04:38
javispedrodoubt it, you might not be able to delete the file04:38
javispedrobut it won't crash04:38
DocScrutinizerNUL might be "harmless", COM1 is evil iirc04:39
javispedroalso doubt it04:39
DocScrutinizeras well as LPT / PRN04:39
javispedrothey have no longer any meaning to the kernel04:39
javispedroit's just userspace04:39
DocScrutinizerno longer, yes. I said win < NT04:39
javispedroah, sorry.04:40
javispedroyes, then, completely right.04:40
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DocScrutinizerso it's completely clear to me why redmond will forbid COM files 2035 still04:41
chxDocScrutinizer: but you know why this happened, dont you?04:44
chxDocScrutinizer: 'cos the first QDOS didnt have directories but it wanted to copy the Unix device files04:44
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DocScrutinizerbecause Billyboy stole Dos from some hacker?04:44
SpeedEvilCON /... is a CPM legacy isn't it?04:45
chxhe didnt steal it04:45
chxhe bought it04:45
DocScrutinizeryeah, for a really too low/high price (depending on point of view)04:45
chxwell it was the business of the decade04:45
chxthey already knew how much IBM will pay for them04:46
chx*to them04:46
DocScrutinizertoo low compared to the money he got from IBM for it. Too high for what it gave to users04:46
nox-SpeedEvil, i thought so too but wasnt sure04:46
nox-(too long ago... :)04:46
SpeedEvilI think I've dumped most of my CPM memories.04:46
SpeedEvilI used it briefly on a word-processor type thing04:46
nox-the \ still lives on tho at least...04:46
DocScrutinizeryear wordmaster - great piece of sw04:47
BCMMchx: ah, was wondering why dev node equivalents were always in the current directory...04:47
DocScrutinizeryeah even04:47
chxcome on04:47
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nox-wasnt it wordstar?04:47
chxyou are Tom Hacker04:47
DocScrutinizerwordmaster was the hacker edition04:47
nox-haha ok04:47
BCMMwhy would anybody create a system without directories after directories had been invented anyway?04:48
chxand someone shows up at the door with 50 000 dollars in 198104:48
chxto buy an OS that made no money for you04:48
BCMMmeh, i guess that's just a special case of "why was DOS such a step backwards?"04:48
chxyou do not ask whether to jump just how high04:48
DocScrutinizerused it a lot until ~198504:48
nox-BCMM, bc 8bit cpus only had 64k address space maybe04:48
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chxthis whole world is built on hacks04:49
nox-oh yeah04:49
nox-and reinvented wheels and nih04:49
DocScrutinizerDOS was a "just for my own purposes PoC" OS written by some hacker, who told Billyboy "It doesn't work and it's bullshit - you know that!"04:50
chxthe IAPX 432 did not want to happen04:50
chxso they implemented the 8086 in ... what six weeks?04:50
SpeedEvilchx: and that was a hack04:50
chxcant remember but it was something like that04:50
nox-ibm should have used 68k for their first pc...04:50
SpeedEvilchx: the iapx wasn't ever going to be a sane processor. The compiler screwed it basically.04:50
DocScrutinizerthose were the days04:51
SpeedEvilAIUI anyway.04:52
SpeedEvilWay before me.04:52
BCMMDocScrutinizer: originating as a "just for my own purposes PoC" isn't always such a bad thing:. recognise this? "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones."04:52
chxIntel, to this day, is a marketing company04:53
DocScrutinizerI seem to recall having seen this as well, yeah04:53
chxthey could not design a decent CPU if their life depend on it04:53
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chxBCMM: well, there are many to this day who would argue with you that thing is a hobby and not serious04:54
BCMMchx: given the architechture they're staying compatible with, haven't they done pretty well in recent years?04:54
DocScrutinizeryeah, and 8086 has been commonly attributed as braindead04:54
nox-chx, i guess the engineers could just marketing prevents them...04:54
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BCMMchx: it kinda makes you wish somebody would throw that sorta effort at a nice architechture... the results would be amazing04:55
chxnox-: i dunno, they wanted a CPU that could perform with a sane wattage envelope that they went back 10+ years in time tweaked it and relaunched as Atom.04:56
chxI always had doubts of Intel's capabilities as a true innovator but the Atom proved it .... if the Itanic didnt.04:57
DocScrutinizerItanic LOL04:58
chxDvorak is often full of shit,2817,2339629,00.asp but this is golden04:58
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BCMMdoes anybody actually know how scalable ARM is? i mean, would it be possible for somebody with sufficient resources to design an ARM core that competes with modern x86 in performance terms?05:00
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chx it wasnt me who came up with Itanic....05:01
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BCMMd'aww, mac fanbois bashing Intel05:02
BCMMkidna feel sorry for them05:02
chx"The next level was the basement, in fact. Hopefully Intel won't come up with any more bright ideas like the Itanium. We can't afford to excavate another level down."05:03
chxwell, in fact, the Atom was -- but , this time, people quickly realized it's a pos and the netbook became a dud esp with the ipad on top...05:04
SpeedEvilThe atom was an awesome chip.05:05
SpeedEvilThe chipsets to go with it however, blew.05:05
SpeedEvilIf the chipsets were as good as the atom, things would have looked a bit different now05:05
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DocScrutinizer>>It took us to the next level. But we didn't know that the next level was below us, not above. The next level was the basement, in fact.<< X-D05:08
chxYes. Told you that article is golden :D05:09
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DocScrutinizer""yesterday we stood at the edge to abyss. Today we are one step ahead""05:11
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DocScrutinizervery popular saying here in Germany05:12
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chxI thought that was a Hungarian joke about socialism and capitalism.05:21
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posixi think that one is said all around the world lol05:33
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SpeedEvilDoes anyone happen to know if there is a nice way to turn the flashlight on from shell?05:44
SpeedEvilI vaguely recall some hack I did with v4lctl05:44
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RobbieThe1stHeh. I'm now a card-carrying member of the N900 Hardware Hackers club.
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RobbieThe1stSurprisingly enough, it works.05:49
chxwhat is that??05:51
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RobbieThe1stIt's a jumper wire going from the + terminal of the main battery to the + terminal of the backup battery(now replaced with a capacitor)05:52
RobbieThe1stFor... Certain Reasons, my backup battery wasn't working at all, even after I replaced it with a capacitor. Now, it'll keep the time with the main battery out for a few seconds, at least.05:53
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: :)05:53
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RobbieThe1stProvided that cap holds 4V without dying... I'll be fine.05:54
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I2Cset?06:10
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: err what?? a wire?06:11
RobbieThe1stYea. Aand a now missing contact on the board where the battery's + terminal was -supposed- to go.. <_<06:12
DocScrutinizerform $.2V main bat plus, to a contact of GAIA that's supposed to operate at MAX 3V06:12
RobbieThe1stNo, no worry about that - That's my problem - the contact to GAIA doesn't exist any more.06:13
RobbieThe1stI... wasn't carefull enough when putting the cap on, and managed to pull the contact off the board.06:13
DocScrutinizersounds as odd as it can get06:14
RobbieThe1stYes. But it's better than nothing.06:14
DocScrutinizernope, I guess it's as useless as nothing06:14
RobbieThe1stLet me just say this: Before, when I pulled out the main battery, the clock instantly reset(nothing to power it). Now, it at least lasts long enough for me to put in a new battery06:15
DocScrutinizerwhat's that capacitor supposed to do then? Power the whole device, via main battery + contact?, I don't think that can pan out06:15
RobbieThe1stWith the device off, it will.06:15
RobbieThe1stI'm guessing it has something to do with the RTC working at a lower voltage than the rest of the device...06:16
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DocScrutinizernevertheless I'd connect plus of backup battery to C4257 instead of hooking it up to main battery plus06:19
RobbieThe1stI couldn't find it.06:19
DocScrutinizerwhere's the problem?06:19
RobbieThe1stI found that cap on the schematic, but I couldn't find it on the PCB layout diagram.06:20
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* pahartik would want Nokia N900 to suspend-to-disk when battery is low or user requests for that06:22
SurjikalIs there a way to write to the phone's microphone device? I'd like to playback some music, for example, in a phone conversation.06:23
RobbieThe1stHm... that could use part of the swap partition I assume... Though I'm not sure how much power it would take to write that much data..06:23
DocScrutinizerit's M8, component side, next to L420206:24
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DocScrutinizerleft to C420506:25
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RobbieThe1st1 sec, let me pull up the diagram06:26
RobbieThe1stWhich page? 16 or 17?06:26
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I vaguely remember I2c is awkward, as you have to unload modules that will  break the camera06:27
RobbieThe1stAnd which grid location?06:27
DocScrutinizerthe notorious i2c occupied issue06:27
DocScrutinizerI guess you know how to decide which side of that C is "hot"06:31
RobbieThe1stI think one's ground, so I could just check continuity..06:31
DocScrutinizeryep, with a very-low-voltage meter06:32
RobbieThe1st..I'm going to have to get/find myself some -very- thin wire; it's going to have to be routed around one corner of the camera module, and then half way across the board again on the other side..06:32
DocScrutinizeryep, then even inside the can, thru some hole I think to be founf in a corner next to the C06:34
SurjikalSounds intense, what are you guys doing?06:35
DocScrutinizervery thin wire anyway isn't that hard to find. I got some insanely thin copper-varnish wire here  0.05mm dia06:35 60750906:36
DocScrutinizerI'd recommend 0.15mm though06:36
SpeedEvilwhy not replace the battery?06:37
jacekowskitoo simple06:38
DocScrutinizererr, he did06:39
DocScrutinizerread backscroll06:39
DocScrutinizerreplaced by goldcap aiui06:39
RobbieThe1stAand I wasn't thinking when I did so, and managed to break off the + contact on the board06:41
DocScrutinizerpad came off06:41
DocScrutinizerquite usual06:41
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DocScrutinizertoo high or too low temp of iron, too much force applied -> damage done06:42
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RobbieThe1stBTW, what temp should I have my iron? I've been using it around 325C06:43
RobbieThe1st(I've got a temp-controlled 60w chinese unit)06:44
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jacekowskilittle bit too warm06:46
jacekowskimelting point of 60/40 solder is under 200C06:47
jacekowskiand going a lot above that is pointless06:47
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DocScrutinizerbtw, why around cam module? I'd route the wire around the PCB edge next to power button, behind B2B-connector, to golden RF test connector marked (4) and then bend to left and down the trench between the 2 cans and straight into the can next to your destination06:48
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: this isn't 60/40 though. RoHS06:49
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jacekowskiwell, it's still too warm06:49
jacekowskirohs stuff melts at under 250C06:49
DocScrutinizermo moh06:49
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jacekowskithat reminds me06:49
jacekowskii have to go to sleep06:49
jacekowskigood night06:49
RobbieThe1stAlright... I'll try 270C next time..06:50
SpeedEvilNight jacekowski06:50
DocScrutinizerI'd suggest 30006:50
DocScrutinizerfor desoldering06:50
DocScrutinizer270 for soldering might work ok06:50
MohammadAG51oh yay, soldering talk06:51
RobbieThe1stAlright, I'll try that.06:51
DocScrutinizerdon't forget acid free flux, for soldering06:51
RobbieThe1stDunno about that; I've got my 60/40 Radioshack-branded solder, and a tub of radio-shack flux..06:52
RobbieThe1stI -think- the 60/40 rozin-core solder is acid-free06:52
MohammadAG51I thought radioshack went bankrupt and closed down06:53
SpeedEvilOn a related matter - anyone happen to know how to call the camera from shell?06:53
RobbieThe1stNope; they are around still... Though they don't sell that much in the way of parts; far more cellphones and toys than bits.06:54
DocScrutinizerliquid activated resin flux should be fine. Never use cheap flux that's not clearly marked as use for electronic06:54
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: naah - I mean the proper UI06:54
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, good luck with that06:54
MohammadAG51maemo-invoker maybe06:54
Surjikalcamera-ui looks promising06:55
RobbieThe1stHm. I can't find my disasembly guide; How will I be removing the can and then replacing it?06:56
RobbieThe1st(metal cover over those components)06:56
MohammadAG51Surjikal, doesn't work06:56
Surjikalbut it just hangs for a couple of seconds and then closes. I'm looking at the trace now.06:56
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: caaaarefully ;-)06:56
RobbieThe1stFair enough.06:56
RobbieThe1stAnd, what, solder it back into place if needed? :P06:57
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: you'll need a pinpoint very smal knife, and open up one latch after the other. A tedious task that easily takes 20min06:57
MohammadAG51which reminds me06:59
MohammadAG51how do I start image-viewer from terminal?06:59
DocScrutinizerit's a snap-on lid, with ~80 latches. Don't worrky too much about the lid, you can bend it into shape after opening06:59
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DocScrutinizeryou need to be really careful though not to pry off other components when opening the lid07:00
RobbieThe1stI'll try to remember that.07:00
DocScrutinizerwell, that particular lid looks easy07:01
DocScrutinizerit's large, and easily accessable from at least 2 sides07:01
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DocScrutinizerI think it has been the easiest one to open07:02
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RobbieThe1stThat's good.07:03
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MohammadAG51RobbieThe1st, flasher (on-device binary) can be used to flash an N900 from another one07:08
MohammadAG51using h-e-n07:08
MohammadAG51think I tested it by sending the MeeGo kernel to my device from a classmate's07:09
RobbieThe1stOh. Cool07:09
DocScrutinizeryou may want to cover solder points and contacts nearby C4257 hot end with some solder stop varnish, so you don't have too much problem removing the inevitable solder blobs ;-)07:09
MohammadAG51you know07:09
RobbieThe1stWhat does kernel_power_flasher use?07:09
MohammadAG51as much as the N9 might suck (hardware-wise)07:09
MohammadAG51umm, do-kernel-update or sth07:10
MohammadAG51that's just a script for flasher07:11
MohammadAG51Kindly supply at least one image. Thank you. - BioShock reference anyone?07:11
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DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: for opening the lid, you want to start at a corner, gently pushing up the latches on both sides from corner up and left. It will snap back a 20 times until you got the first 6 latches free, then it gets much easier07:13
RobbieThe1stI'll try to remember that. Or just come in here when I'm about to do it..07:14
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: bioshock? a terrorist website?07:16
MohammadAG51video game, the guy talking to you always says "Kindy do xxyy"07:17
RST38hWell. Moo.07:17
RST38hMohammad, Doc, hello07:17
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass07:17
MohammadAG51hey RST38h07:18
SurjikalCould "telepathy-stream-engine" be used to play back audio on a cellular phone call?07:19
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SurjikalIm able to record cellular calls, but I can't figure out how to actually play back audio. Has this been done before?07:23
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DocScrutinizerI seem to recall the question has been asked before. I guess that doesn't help07:25
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SurjikalI was probably the one asking heh. I guess I'll poke around some more.07:25
DocScrutinizerumm, there's a thing called tonegen, somewhere in alsa/PA, that probably generates DTMF audio and plays this to GSM modem "mic" input07:26
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DocScrutinizerI'd guess you could playback arbitrary sounds same way07:27
DocScrutinizerat least meego sources might have tonegen07:28
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SurjikalThat is exactly the kind of info I was looking for, thanks you very much!07:28
DocScrutinizerplease share your findings, I'm interested in that topic as well07:29
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SurjikalWill do07:29
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SurjikalMy ultimate goal is to create a software voice mail, that way I can dodge my provider's rediculous fee.07:30
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MohammadAG51funny how it just woks on symbian07:39
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DocScrutinizerwtf, apt-worker-thread eaten up 4:00.000 of CPU time, and running07:42
MohammadAG51nuke it07:43
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notsladwhat is the best cell phone to get with the meamo or meego OS?07:44
DocScrutinizerit indeed finished :-P07:44
notsladI intend to keep my phone for the next four years or so :^)07:44
DocScrutinizerN900, the best and only07:45
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notsladDocScrutinizer: hmm... are the specs of the n900 still strong.. n900 came out late 2009, didn't it?07:45
DocScrutinizeryes, and yes07:46
notsladDocScrutinizer: I was hoping for a phone capacitive screen.. though it looks like the resistive screen isn't too bad..07:46
MohammadAG51if you want a 4 year device07:46
MohammadAG51You wouldn't complain about a year old one :P07:47
DocScrutinizerbut you should buy 2 of them then :-D07:47
DocScrutinizernotslad: I prefer this r-ts over any c-ts plus hotdog for stylus07:48
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notsladMohammadAG51: hehe.. I've had my current phone since 2006 :^)  I want to make sure my next one will last just as long :^)07:48
MohammadAG51if only I could last that long :P07:49
DocScrutinizerwell, when treated with love, N900 can last at least one year - evidently07:49
notsladMohammadAG51: itz hard... everyone showing me all sorts of fancy features and all this nifty stuff they can do with their new phones year after year.. :^)07:49
DocScrutinizerunless you got a lemon07:49
notsladhas anyone tried to port meego or meamo to the n8? :^)07:50
MohammadAG51wouldn't even attempt to07:50
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Neccand will never be ported07:51
Neccsymbian =/= linux07:51
MohammadAG51that's not exactly a limitation07:51
MohammadAG51you're not running one in the other07:51
DocScrutinizerhehe, funny idea though07:52
MohammadAG51it's like saying mac =/= windows07:52
Neccyeah but that is still a cellphone... not a PC where you press a button on the keyboard, and select something else drive to boot from07:53
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Neccups the N8 also lacks of that too07:53
MohammadAG51no kb is not a limitation either07:54
MohammadAG51in theory, you can port it07:54
MohammadAG51in practice, the symbian community is noobish07:54
* notslad just read that the n9 will be running Symbian :^(07:55
notsladI really wish Nokia would give up on this "we support both Symbian and Meamo" business..07:55
notsladbut thatz probably already been said here before..07:55
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DocScrutinizeryou shouldn't bother that much about random reads, esp from the interwebs07:57
MohammadAG51N9? Symbian? bullshit? yep07:57
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MohammadAG51that's the E7, commonly referred to as the N907:58
DocScrutinizerwhat N9 btw ;-P07:58
chxHere, i have a bridge to sell to you if you believe that07:58
MohammadAG51sorry, already have a bridge here07:58
DocScrutinizerA fortess here07:58
notsladI think I'd prefer a fortress.. I like stability in my applications07:58
DocScrutinizernice one, MohammadAG51 knows it07:59
MohammadAG51i called it the Golden Gate07:59
notsladhmmm... says the N9 is rumoured to come out in 2011...07:59
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MohammadAG512011 ends in 11+ months08:00
DocScrutinizerthat's a char swap, they meant 210108:00
MohammadAG51and gsmarena is bullshit08:00
MohammadAG51it's not a snapdragon08:00
MohammadAG51it's an omap08:01
MohammadAG51probably OMAP308:01
chxI read a fantastic review on the N8 that was written as if the N8 was released in 2008 :)08:01
DocScrutinizermeh, don't spam the chan - this site isn't worth a comment08:01
MohammadAG51the vkb on pr1.2 is very crsppy08:01
notsladsry.. just trying to seperate fact from fiction :^)08:01
MohammadAG51crappy grr08:01
luke-jranyone here familiar with Sandy Bridge?08:02
luke-jr says compatible with P67 chipset; any reason it wouldn't work with H67?08:02
wmaronethe memory controller is in the CPU, if it's DDR3 it'll work08:02
luke-jrgood point08:03
* luke-jr gives Mushkin a weird look for only listing P6708:03
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DocScrutinizertime for a walk to the shop, before that evil daystar rises08:04
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chxso yeah , hackers and vampires are not that different....08:07
notsladchx: except in their diet08:08
notsladchx: ... unless the vampire *is* a hacker..08:08
chxyou mean, you do not live on blood?08:08
* notslad doesn't want to admit that he's only a script kiddie08:09
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notsladlol.. reviewers can't seem to make up their mind about the N9.. some say it is a replacement for the N900 and others for the N8... I guess it all depends on where you're coming from08:15
loft306i- in out yet?08:16
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notsladloft306: if you're asking if the n9 is out yet, it isn't...  I just found a website spreading rumours that it *might* launch next month during the Mobile World Conference08:27
notsladloft306: ... based on a tweet08:28
notsladloft306: course, you can by the Chinese knockoff for ~$110(US) if you wanted...08:29
loft306haha that would prob get seized by customs for wo fcc cert08:29
notsladI don't know.. it looks like they just mimicked the looks..08:30
loft306they got goood here in milwakkee seiving the knock off ipads08:30
chxwell, no, in fact the Chinese have in finished Meego and released the real N9 just noone believes them08:30
loft306yeah was junt looking at it08:31
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Termanagood morning08:32
notsladanyone know if Meego need to be jailbroken to get to the command prompt?08:33
notsladTermana: hello08:33
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wmaronenotslad: depends on what the handset vendor does/carrier tosses on top08:34
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notsladwell.. time for me to go unconscious..08:38
notsladit was nicing ranting with everyone...08:39
notsladl8r :^)08:39
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epphey, i installed multiboot and now i cant get power kernel to install again09:03
epphow can i manually install it09:03
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DocScrutinizermultiboot is "installing" kernels on every single boot - that's why it's *deprecated*. To get a kernel into multiboot you have to install it to multiboot infrastructure, you must not simply install a new kernel as that most of the times means you'll have to reflash ( - that's why multiboot is *deprecated* ;-P )09:16
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DocScrutinizerthere's power kernel with uBoot, which IMHO is a much better concept than multiboot09:18
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DocScrutinizerwhile multiboot basically does "swap the HDD of your PC", uBoot is a true sane bootloader-menu and allows you to boot into optional partitions and storage devices, instead of swapping the content of the one booting storage09:21
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DocScrutinizerpester nitdridiot folks to adapt their booting scheme to uBoot rather than force users to use a nasty dangerous hack for booting their OS09:23
DocScrutinizerI'm temped to remark that's in line with general android mindset - they never did nor do they now bother too much about coexistence with other OS09:25
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DocScrutinizeryou're aware each time you're booting, multiboot flashes the kernel to same location on NAND, and unlike eMMC and even root ubifs, that kernel partiton neither has any wear leveling nor does it cope exactly good with too many worn out blocks. And we all know flash storage has a limited number of write cycles until burnout09:30
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: what's up with your alter ego? what's about #mhd09:35
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, ZNC is offline for some reason09:35
MohammadAG51so i'm only on #maemo till it's back09:35
MohammadAG51is the ##mhd link gone?09:36
DocScrutinizeryou got better latency with that other ZNC server?09:36
MohammadAG51it is09:36
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, didn't work as expected09:44
MohammadAG51says invite only09:44
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DocScrutinizerhow's that fsckng forward syntax?09:44
MohammadAG51can't find it09:46
MohammadAG51ask in #freenode i guess09:46
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DocScrutinizerworks again09:52
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DocScrutinizerfreenode seems to have the annoying habit to reset +i +f09:53
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RobbieThe1st>.< I weep for humanity. I was just handed a php script someone made to stick on our site. It's fairly simple, getting stats from a MySQL DB. The author is supposed to be "majoring in this stuff", and yet he DIDN'T BOTHER TO VALIDATE POST INPUT. Which means that a sql-injection attack would be trivial.09:55
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RobbieThe1stI haven't taken a single PHP class, and I know enough not to do that..09:56
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seiflotfyhey guys10:37
seiflotfyi know ths is not a place to ask10:37
seiflotfybut my n900s brightness is very low10:38
seiflotfyi can hardly see anything10:38
seiflotfyi dont know how this happened10:38
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nidOthe obvious question hangs in the air10:40
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phrearchanyone an idea how to speed up the application management app, searching for updates?10:46
phrearchit takes like 2 minutes or more :S10:47
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nidOthe best way is to stop using it and install fapman instead10:48
phrearchaha thanks. never heared of that10:49
phrearchsomehow i cant install anything from the console anymore as well. something about failing to get a lock, while im root10:49
nidOyou need to have the app manager closed10:50
nidOand it needs to not be automatically checking for updates10:50
MohammadAG51any physics geeks here?10:50
phrearchok thanks10:50
nidOMohammadAG51, what kinda level physics?10:51
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MohammadAG51electron volts to joules10:51
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MohammadAG51can't remember the equation I need :P10:51
X-FadeMohammadAG51: YFGI? :)10:54
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MohammadAG51~wtf YGFI10:54
infobotGee...  I don't know what YGFI means...10:54
MohammadAG51~wtf YFGI10:54
infobotGee...  I don't know what YFGI means...10:54
MohammadAG51ah, V = eV * 1.6x10^1910:55
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reeniginEesreveRi have a linux based c++ app i wrote. How can I compile it to run on  maemo/n900?11:01
DocScrutinizer51~yfgi is you fucking google it11:02
infobotDocScrutinizer51: please, watch your language.11:02
infobotrumour has it, rtfm is Read The F*cking Manual (TM). It is a suggestion to do your homework before posting a question. Sometimes used as RTFM $SPECIFIC_MANUAL to refer to a specific source of information. See also
phrearchsomeone tried maemo on qemu?11:04
reeniginEesreveRDocScrutinizer, please google it for me11:04
reeniginEesreveRDocScrutinizer, aren't you here to help others out?11:04
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reeniginEesreveRI dont think it is a bad thing to google for someone else11:05
reeniginEesreveRok, then kindly please shut yourself up11:05
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reeniginEesreveRthank you11:05
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MohammadAG51he wasn't even talking to you11:06
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infobotmaemosdk is, like,
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DocScrutinizer51reeniginEesreveR: piss off, nobody invited you into a convo between me and MohammadAG5111:06
MohammadAG51read that11:06
reeniginEesreveRThnks MohammadAG5111:06
reeniginEesreveRDocScrutinizer, i thought you were telling me to rtfm11:07
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reeniginEesreveRI politely asked a question and the response i got was RTFM11:07
reeniginEesreveRnaturally i' feel insulted11:09
DocScrutinizer51what makes you think you got any response??11:09
delphidoes anyone else have problems with libconic, i my callbacks are never called :/11:09
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delphiso i cant check if it actually connected the phone to the internet or not..11:10
reeniginEesreveRmaybe you should see the chat log above and see when i joined in asked the question and you responded.11:10
DocScrutinizer51you had no exclusive lease on that channel11:10
phrearchhm, some repository is quite slow to update11:11
delphior should i ask, is libconic's wiki page up to date?11:11
nidOitll be devel, if you have it enabled11:11
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reeniginEesreveRMohammadAG51, is it possible to run gcc on n900 itself?11:15
delphihm, so nobody uses libconic?11:17
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phrearchhm cool. chromium works on n90011:23
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phrearchseems that overclocking is not enabled anymore with the power kernel?11:25
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MohammadAG51reeniginEesreveR, yes11:47
MohammadAG51though I highly suggest using a chroot11:47
MohammadAG51as / is only 256MBs11:47
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RST38hAm I missing something, or is Maps really written in JavaScript?12:14
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muellisoftRST38h: yep. XulRunner + JavaSCript foo. Really ugly. Also, all the widgets are customl, i.e. no system widgets which makes it a pain to update.12:16
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RST38hmuellisoft: holy shit, no wonder it is slow and a memory hog =(12:19
RST38hBut it probably also means the Maps UI can be modified? =)12:19
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paulyhi im downloading linux cause qt creator in windows is giving me problems but was wondering which is the best linux disto 2 download debain or ubuntu12:34
paulycause apperntly ubunutu 10.04 has some kinda issue on the wiki12:35
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mikki-kunbest linux? depends on what you need and want to do with it12:35
khertan_and your use12:36
khertan_and many other things :)12:36
nidOif you're new to *nix and are using it on a desktop, ubuntu is likely to be your best start12:36
paulyya i know12:36
paulybut on wiki12:36
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paulyit says 10.04 has some issuies12:36
khertan_10.04 isn't the more recent versions12:36
paulywith scratchbox12:36
khertan_scratchbox have issue everywhere :)12:37
nidO10.10 is the current release afaik12:37
paulylol okay12:37
paulyya i have that downloaded12:37
mikki-kunwhy not go gentoo? only thing needed there is the ability to read and follow the rules :)12:37
paulysee im trying to port one qt app to maemo512:37
nidOyeah the main problem with reading the rules is that theyre like 459864590 pages long12:38
paulyive used ubuntu for a while i was just figuring which was best for scratchbox12:38
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mikki-kunnidO: you seem to have gotten the wrong pages then... baseinstall of gentoo can be done in 15 minutes12:39
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paulyqtwiiter wont seem to build cause the lib qoauth12:39
khertan_mikki-kun: base install is base ...12:39
paulyisnt there but i know there is an libqoauth12:39
khertan_mikki-kun: it s a long step for a new user12:39
paulyim good with ubuntu goona do that12:40
paulythanks for the help12:40
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paulywhich is better qt creator or maemo5 sdk?12:41
nidOeven the instructions for a base install are about 15 pages long these days, this compares to "keep clicking yes" for something like ubuntu12:41
Naibthe install guide I have for gentoo is 1/3 of an A412:41
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Naiband a gentoo install can be kicked off with 1 command and you can just walk away. no need todo anything else12:42
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khertan_Naib: yep but maintainning the system is time consuming12:43
Naibno not really12:43
paulyhey guys im burning ubunutu 10.10 so im good with the distos12:43
Naibemerge --sync && emerge @world -uvDNa12:44
khertanNaib: it s more than usual distro12:44
Naiband browse while that work12:44
khertanNaib: and you have 1 chance on 5 to break something12:44
NaibI have had more issues keeping this NUbuntu box at work working then I do the 5 gentoo boxes I have12:44
khertanNaib: yeah ... ubuntu :)12:44
mikki-kunkhertan_: usually libs break on bin-based like ubuntu, gentoo resolves them via emerge12:44
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* khertan use a debian stable12:45
sig^lenny's always sooo late  ):12:45
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khertanmikki-kun: yeah most ubuntu problem are bin-based ...12:45
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mikki-kunwhy nit recommend then debian?12:46
paulyive been meaning to do this been trying 2 get rid of windows7 but i had all my files on it with nowhere to backup but the shrink util actually worked so now i can install ubuntu yay!12:46
Naiblol Debian.... want mysql4 depending on mysql5  DERP12:46
AppiahNaib: ?12:47
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khertansig^: yep late but stable12:47
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keriosqueeze is recent12:47
kerioand almost stable12:47
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khertankerio: testing12:47
paulybrb got to install the linux12:48
kerioyeah, but it's been frozen12:48
khertankerio : indeed12:48
sig^"they" say squeeze is almost frozen12:48
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khertanmikki-kun: about break last time it was bin based ... but thing not implemented in the source code of a lib12:51
khertanmikki-kun: some thing having segfault12:51
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phrearchhm, i installed multiboot power-kernel, but im affraid my n900 not booting anymore :(12:51
khertanmikki-kun: but i'm far to be an expert on gentoo :)12:52
khertanmikki-kun: more a simple user :12:52
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mikki-kunsegfault is bad :)12:52
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khertanmikki-kun: and too be honest i ve see the difference on my old pc, but now with the new config i didn't see one12:53
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mikki-kunphrearch: what did you do and how come you are afraid of your n900 not booting anymore12:53
phrearchmikki-kun: i installed multi-boot-power from devel, and i end up in a white n900 bootscreen without offering any options to boot in12:54
Appiahaaah ok12:54
mikki-kunphrearch: did you try to boot it with your keyboard closed?12:54
phrearchehm, checking12:55
mikki-kunand afair multiboot is not anymore the best solution12:55
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phrearchhm oops12:55
phrearchhope i dont have a brick now :)12:55
mikki-kunyou wanted nitdroid running?12:55
phrearchwell, yea or meego.12:55
phrearchis there any way i can undo this?12:56
TheJhello. i want to try the debian version of mozilla-plugin-vlc on my N900. anyone know how to get it?12:56
phrearchshould have thought about that before i started hehe12:56
AppiahTheJ: download it12:56
mikki-kunuboot is currently in development, but the guys are thinking on a better way of doing that stuff as the NAND where the bootkernel gets written to can at some point break..12:56
TheJtried apt-get12:57
TheJdidnt work12:57
Appiahwell it's not in maemo repo..12:57
mikki-kunphrearch: i am not sure of the procedure in total, but you could flash the kernel only as in *searching*12:57
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AppiahTheJ: if its from debian you need to get it from debian..12:57
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Appiaharmel 1.1.3-1squeeze12:58
AppiahGood luck...12:58
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mikki-kunphrearch: (but read the whole page there)12:58
phrearchhm, if i press 0 in the bootmenu it returns an error: cant flash kernel, required files not found12:58
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phrearchhm, but i cant access the device12:59
phrearchill read up12:59
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mikki-kunphrearch: beware though, it could in a worst-case scenario render your rootfs flashed12:59
mikki-kunbtw, when you boot up, do you see the nokia-logo?13:00
TheJthanks appiah :)13:00
ShadowJKHeh. I went to what used to be my local Nokia Care authorized repair shop. They said Nokia has cancelled all repair shops in the country, and that you now have to send it directly to the repair center. However, they are not permitted to tell you the name and address of the repair center, and the repair center does not accept devices shipped by end users anyway. wtf  :)13:00
phrearchmikki-kun: yes13:00
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mikki-kunShadowJK: call headquarters in finland and tell them they f'd up in the country you live in :)13:02
ShadowJKmikki-kun, yeah, I'm in finland..13:02
ShadowJKIf they fuck up their home country I can't imagine what they're doing abroad :)13:03
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mikki-kunShadowJK: mitä helvetiä?! Ö.ö13:03
khertan_ShadowJK: lol13:03
Sicelohi all :)13:03
phrearchhm, probably should dl pr 1.3 ?13:04
phrearch(im located in the netherlands)13:04
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Siceloplease tell me if Claws mail on the N900 supports IMAP-IDLE13:04
ShadowJKOh actually, looks like SCF does accept private individuals mailing in their broken devices... but I had to search forums to find out who has the nokia repair now13:04
mikki-kunShadowJK: still i'd call headquarters especially then and tell them what the heck are they up to with doing so...13:04
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ShadowJKphellarv, global works on everything13:04
ShadowJKmikki-kun, I already sent a mail through that Contact nokia thing on their website..13:04
mikki-kungood :)13:04
phrearchhm, and flasher for linux requires an ancient libusb :(13:05
ShadowJKThe store I went to said they can send it in for me, but since I didn't buy it from them (I bought it from Nokia), they'll have to charge me extra13:05
phrearchthe docs say i should both flash eMMC and FIASCO13:05
mikki-kunphrearch: you don't have to13:06
mikki-kunFIASCO is for the rootfs13:06
mikki-kunwhich pr had you running so far?13:06
pahartikphrearch: "maemo-flasher-3.5" requires x86 Linux... Which is not good at all...13:06
phrearchhm, no 64 bit version?13:07
ShadowJKIt only needs libc and libusb..13:08
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* ShadowJK ran it on his Fedora Core 64 bit after installing some x86 package13:08
pahartikphrearch: No PowerPC, ARM, Alpha, SPARC, MIPS, [...] binary13:08
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ShadowJKI think there's an arm binary13:08
phrearchShadowJK: it asks for a particular libusb version. Did you compile that manually?13:09
ShadowJKiirc someone flashed their N900 from their other N90013:09
ShadowJKApparently my antiquated version of fedora had that version13:09
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mikki-kuni am running the most up to date libusb-version13:10
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ShadowJKI seem to have libusb-0.1.12-2013:11
TheJincompatible application package for the mozilla-plugin-vlc :(13:11
pahartikShadowJK: Not at ""13:11
ShadowJKah, it's preinstalled on N900 ;D13:12
phrearchehm maemo flasher ?13:12
ShadowJK2.8.2.1 it seems13:13
ShadowJKOh wow, flasher-3.0 was available in amd64 version13:14
* ShadowJK has it on his hd still13:14
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phrearchi got the version from there13:14
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phrearchah, installed multilib version of libusb which fixed it13:15
eichihello. is there no openstreetmap routing for mappero? the google one is damn bad for walking13:15
phrearchok, lets see how this brick can become a phone again. i guess its not possible to keep my contacts intact?13:15
ShadowJKflashing emmc would kill contacts for sure13:16
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phrearchi got a file called RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin. thats the whole FIASCO thing?13:16
mikki-kunphrearch: that is the complete FIASCO13:17
ShadowJKthe emmc image has "emmc" in the name, so that thing is the plain fiasco image13:18
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pahartikShadowJK: Maemo has "flasher v2.8.2 (Jan  8 2010)" here... That could work... But I do not have another Nokia N900, just Nokia 77013:18
phrearchmikki-kun: ah found RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin on
ShadowJKYou'd also need to get your healthy N900 into hostmode :)13:18
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ShadowJKIf you wrecked your N900 with some random broken multiboot package from -devel, flashing just the fiasco image should work, I think13:19
phrearchhm big red text: When flashing eMMC always also flash FIASCO rootfs - NEVER boot the device between the two flashes.13:19
mikki-kunphrearch: that will flash all your personal info :)13:19
mikki-kunphrearch: you won't need it :)13:20
phrearchgood lesson for the next time i guess :-)13:20
mikki-kunif you don't want to flash your personal data as well13:20
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phrearchhm, im dling emmc content now from the nokia site13:21
phrearchim just a bit concerned about the red text, warning against writing eMMC without the fiasco image13:21
mikki-kunShadowJK: i think with the multiboot-thing even flashing just the kernel is sufficent13:21
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mikki-kunphrearch: so you just want your n900 to boot again, right? :)13:22
phrearchyea, i guess so :)13:22
mikki-kunthen you only need the FIASCO :)13:22
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ShadowJKphrearch, I would not flash emmc. I would first try flashing only the fiasco "combined" image.13:22
mikki-kunthe n900 is seperated into the rootfs and the emmc13:22
phrearchok cool. thanks13:22
mikki-kunthe rootfs is FIASCO :) (there is all system relevant data inside)13:23
Paulynow im getting the Host kernel VDSO support is incompatible with scratchbox.13:23
Paulytrying to install scratchbox13:23
mikki-kunin the emmc there is just additional place and data for like MyDocs and such :)13:23
phrearchnice to try this anti-brick protection13:23
mikki-kunessentially the n900 can work without the emmc :)13:23
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phrearchis there a way i could inreversibly change this n900 into a brick?13:23
mikki-kunand i might suggest you only flash the kernel and not the whole rootfs :)13:24
phrearchwithout destroying it physically i mean ;)13:24
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phrearchaha, thats possible as well13:24
mikki-kunphrearch: kill the stuff that loads NOLO13:24
mikki-kunbootloader of the n90013:25
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phrearchhm, flasher-3.5 -F <FIASCO image> -f , thats all?13:25
phrearchi guess the device should be on13:26
mikki-kunyou can even kill nolo afaik, but the thing that loads nolo is essential and can only be made working again with a debugger that connects to the battery-pins (which gives you a terminal to the NAND of the n900)13:26
mikki-kunsudo ./flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R13:26
mikki-kunthat is the command :)13:26
mikki-kunaccording to the wiki13:27
mikki-kunand to get your device into flashing mode insert your usb-cable to the computer13:27
mikki-kunthen hold the "u" button on the n900's keyboard, while you plug the micro-b end of the usb-cable into the n90013:27
mikki-kunhold the u-button for a couple of seconds (so the usb-icon on the upper right won't go away)13:28
mikki-kunand then you are good to go and execute the command i copied :)13:28
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Paulyinstalling scratchbox i love google its the best for searching for help with errors13:29
mikki-kunthis command will just flash the kernel (which i hope is sufficent)13:29
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mikki-kuni gave up on scratchbox and let the others do the dirty work :)13:29
phrearchgot it. thanks13:29
Paulyi just trying to port one app13:30
Paulythat was already port to diablo13:30
phrearchthere were multiple country versions of the fiasco. global is ok?13:30
PaulyQtwitter its a qt twitter app13:30
mikki-kunphrearch: global should be ok :)13:31
phrearchmikki-kun: ok thanks13:31
mikki-kuni think country specific versions are just so that the wifi is broadcasting in allowed freqencies and such13:31
mikki-kunand some countries don't allow the fm-transmitter13:32
phrearchaha ok13:32
phrearchhm, it returns an error claiming usb interface: device or resource busy13:32
phrearchthe n900 is in flash modus i think13:32
mikki-kunremove the n900 from the usb13:33
mikki-kuntake the battery out for a couple of secs13:33
mikki-kuninsert your battery back (don't turn it on or let it turn on :) )13:33
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phrearchthe device autodetected matched the phone13:34
mikki-kunand then try the flashing again with the u-key being pushed down while you insert the usb-cable :)13:34
phrearchok thanks13:34
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phrearchhm, "Suitable USB device not found, waiting."13:36
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mikki-kunit can take some time :)13:36
mikki-kunlike 10 secs or so..13:36
alteregoI prefer the turn N900 off then plug it in approach13:36
alteregoWorks everytime 90 percent of the time13:36
SpeedEvilIn principle, do that with the n900 face-down, so you can't easily drop the battery13:37
alteregoOh, reboot loop?13:38
phrearchok thanks13:38
alteregoI've never had to use the 'u' key approach13:38
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mikki-kunphrearch: here some steps in this video :)13:38
phrearchow nice13:39
trxanyone had problems with libconic callbacks not working?13:39
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* SpeedEvil ponders posting a 'steps' video link, but decides against, owing to them being shit.13:40
phrearchaha, some warning about using the front usb connectors13:40
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paulyinstalling sdk yay13:41
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phrearchhm same message :(13:42
phrearchError claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy13:42
alteregoAre you running as root?13:42
alterego:/ Never had that issue either ..13:42
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paulythank god for the maemo5 wiki would have never figured out how to install this13:44
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phrearchhm, ill try the flasher under windows13:45
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mikki-kuni heard this might work as well "remove your battery, insert the usb into the n900, hold down the u-key and insert your battery13:45
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mikki-kunthat doesn't sound good...13:47
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phrearch__hope its just a libusb thing13:49
paulygod the maemo5 sdk takes forever to install13:49
mikki-kunpauly: yup, it takes forever :/13:49
paulynever had that problem and ive reflashed like 2 times this week alone lol13:50
mikki-kun2 times this week? wow13:50
alteregopauly: you must be trying hard :)13:50
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alteregoI've only flashed on firmware updates.13:50
alteregoAnd arguably I never needed to do that ..13:51
paulyi closed the app man while it was working13:51
paulyeverything got messed up13:51
paulyits so greatthat it dont effect emmc13:51
paulywow how many things does this need to download13:52
paulyi gather its to late to ask but which is better qt creator or the scratchbox13:53
alteregopauly: depends what you're developing.13:53
alteregoNokia Qt SDK (Qt Creator) is best for app development.13:53
paulyporting qt app13:53
alteregoThen Nokia Qt SDK is probably your best bet.13:53
paulyi ttried it on windows 713:54
paulybut got confused13:54
alteregoAh, well you can't use scratchbox on windows :)13:54
paulyhah  happy hacking13:54
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paulyjust installed ubuntu 10.1013:54
alteregoPersonally, I use both.13:54
alteregoscratchbox is really useful for getting your packaging sorted for uploading to extras-devel13:55
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alteregoBut I've also integrated Qt Creator with scratchbox, so you can run & test maemo apps from Qt Creator in scratchbox, which is really cool too.13:55
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phrearch__hm on windows its just stalling on suitable usb device not found, waiting13:57
paulyim like a real noob13:58
paulyi was trying to copmile qtwitter for maemo5 from source code using the pro file in qt cretaor13:58
mikki-kunphrearch__: hm... sorry, i am out of ideas :/13:59
paulybut the dependcies messed me up but i realized all the libs i need are aleady ported to maemo5 just renamed with lib in front of them13:59
pahartikShadowJK: Would it be reasonably easy to boot Maemo with microSDHC as "/", "/home" and "/home/user/MyDocs"... And then flash firmware upgrade?14:00
phrearch__hm, an option is that also windows vista 64 has issues14:00
AranelOuch :| I did "ln -s /opt/ejre/bin /usr/bin" how can I revert this back!?14:00
ptlrm /usr/bin/bin would revert it14:00
phrearch__trying the ubuntu live cd14:00
ptlunless you had no /usr/bin14:01
ptlis this the case with meego?14:01
Aranelptl: Maemo 514:01
ptlit has /usr/bin, doesn't it? if there is already a /usr/bin directory, that command would just create a /usr/bin/bin link under /usr/bin pointing to /opt/ejre/bin14:02
Aranelptl: yes it has, and looks like /usr/bin/bin does exist, so I'm going to remove it :) Thanks :)14:03
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AranelI was really scared like hell, I thought It would overwrite /usr/bin :|14:04
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phrearch__hope this fixes it14:05
pahartikAranel: "ln" does not overwrite without "-f"14:05
phrearch__is it possible to brick the device by flashing it wrongly?14:06
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alteregophrearch__: unlikely.14:07
phrearch__hm ok, glad to hear14:07
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phrearch__vista doesnt find the n900 at all, even with the unsigned driver startup14:08
nidOif you're using a 64bit os you'll need to flash it using something else14:08
nidOjust load a nix livecd, either instead of windows or in a vm14:08
phrearch__im dling an ubuntu 32 livecd atm14:08
phrearch__ok hope that will fix it14:08
ThreeMwhy not flash with NSU?!14:09
Aranelpahartik: which makes me happy ^^14:09
chem|st"the box said 'Windows Vista or better' so I installed linux"14:09
pahartikAranel: Acknowledged14:10
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phrearch__anyway, glad i finally made my hands dirty by messing up the kernel14:11
phrearch__good reason to learn something more about the n900 :)14:11
ptlI bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab. The tablet is one of the finest android devices out there, and still I miss my N900 so much. I find it infinitely superior to Android in many aspects...14:13
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ptlit was a pain to set up dropbear sshd to run on my Tab14:14
ptlit is so easy on the N90014:14
ptland the plethora of open source software available to the n900... Android does not even come close14:15
RobbieThe1stN900 = Most awesome device ever.14:15
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ptlit is14:15
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ThreeMi like my device too :)14:16
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lardmanptl: I just bought a tab and am planning to port Meego to it14:20
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trxanyone using LibConIc? my callback functions are never called, i check if signal is connected, and it is, but the lib never calls my callback function... Any ideas, or where might i ask for info?14:20
lardmantrx: code?14:21
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paulystill installing sdk14:22
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trxlardman  <-- its pascal but its pretty much the same...14:24
trxit opens a new connection as it should14:25
alteregoWhy on Earth are you using pascal?14:25
trxand everything is fine, except the callback function is never called14:25
alteregoAre you setting up a main loop?14:26
trxalterego im delphi coder14:26
alteregoRemember you need to have a g_main_loop instance ..14:26
trxyes, i am14:26
trxlib is opening a new connection14:26
trxthat part works fine14:27
ptllardman: I'll be interested on it greatly :D14:27
phrearch__hm cool. the ubuntu livecd approach worked14:28
phrearch__kernel is flashed14:28
trxalterego im not opening g_main_loop directly, that part is handled by my ide..14:28
trxfor example, liblocation's callbacks are fine14:28
trxthey work as they should, only with this i have problems14:29
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phrearch__hm i end up in the multiboot menu again14:29
lardman is some code that mBarcode uses14:29
lardmannot Pascal mind you ;)14:29
trxnot a problem14:29
phrearch__option 0 now works again! :D14:30
eichisomeone uses the sms counter widget? doenst work here. only shows black14:30
phrearch__cool, still have everything intact14:30
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phrearch__pfew thanks for the help. glad its ok again14:31
phrearch__should i uninstall the multiboot thing?14:31
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paulyomg so cool14:35
paulygot maemo5 sdk14:36
phrearch__nice, does it work on non-ubuntu as well?14:36
paulyya mostly any disto14:37
paulyjust dont windows14:37
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phrearch__thats fine14:37
phrearch__does it run in an armel emulator?14:37
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paulyi think14:38
RST38hUnless it is Ubuntu or Debian, you will be facing some trouble14:38
paulyomg its so fast makes me want to overclock14:38
paulymy n90014:38
paulymines past 850 dosent work14:39
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phrearch__ok, maybe i should try that in an openvz container then14:39
phrearch__so if i want to use a multiboot power kernel, whats the best way to do it, without me bricking my device again?14:40
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lardmandon't use multiboot, use u-boot14:54
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phrearch__ok, i also want kernel-power. should i install u-boot for kernel-power v46 then?14:56
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phrearch__hm, bricked it again :S14:58
phrearch__can i custom load the kernel from uboot?15:00
RST38hMeanwhile: "Sheep thefts in Britain likely connected to rising global food prices"15:00
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RST38hlcuk: THAT bad? =)15:00
lcukRST38h, IDK, ask lardman he has specific affinity to sheep15:01
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lardmanyou weren't supposed to share my sordid secret ;)15:02
paulyif i want to compile a app in scratchbox how do i get it there15:02
paulywhere do i download the sorce code to?15:02
lcukpauly, run the scratchbox session, and use scp/git clone/wget just like you do in any other session15:03
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paulyokay thanks15:04
lcukpauly, or failing that, from your "normal" linux / the scratchbox user ~ is: /scratchbox/users/gary/home/gary/15:04
lcuk(obviously replace the username with yours15:04
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RST38hlardman: food shortages? =)15:07
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* lardman 's N900 is being picked up tomorrow for a warranty repair, hopefully15:09
* SpeedEvil cues the Casualty music.15:10
* jonwil wishes he didnt have to reinvent the wheel (aka libisi)15:10
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paulygot it downloaded what i needed using git15:27
kpomancan someone please tell me if there is a tool able to save battery when idle by underclocking the cpu, but also able to overclock when needed ? the most used one ?15:28
paulyif an app depends on something but its already compiled in extras devel15:28
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paulyIn file included from xmlparser.h:29,                  from xmlparser.cpp:24: twitterapi.h:35:22: error: QtOAuth: No such file or directory??15:30
paulywhen using qmake15:30
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Venemo_N900I installed kernel-power. which other package is required for USB host mode?15:37
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Venemo_N900is it hostmode-gui?15:39
trxlardman thank you very much! i was missing : dbus_connection_setup_with_g_main()15:39
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GyjfVenemo_N900 h-e-n15:40
Venemo_N900Gyjf: there is no such package15:41
Venemo_N900Gyjf: there is one named hostmode-gui15:41
Gyjfwhat respositories do you have?15:41
paulyim sad15:41
Venemo_N900Gyjf: extras-devel and sdk repo15:41
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Venemo_N900Gyjf: hostmode-gui created an icon called h-e-n though15:42
Gyjfmaybe it changed name or something15:42
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paulyis there a way i can build without the dependencies?15:43
paulythere renamed in the extras-devel repos15:44
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paulyi need qtoauth, qca, qca-ossl15:45
paulybut in extras devel there called libqoauth, libqca, libqca-ossl i think?15:46
lardmanchange the deps in the control file then15:46
paulyi dont think there is one15:47
paulyits qt source souce15:47
lardmanI see15:47
jacktheripperyou just need to install the dev packages of those mentioned.15:48
lardmanwell it should still have build deps15:48
paulyusing scratchbox install the libqca libqca-ossl and libqtoauth15:48
paulyokay thanks!15:49
paulyim gonna try that15:49
jacktheripperinstall libqca-dev and libqca-ossl-dev and libqtoauth-dev if those exist15:49
paulyokay ill look on garage maemo15:50
paulyi think there there15:50
jacktheripperumm no, just apt-get install them15:50
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paulyi dont think i have devel enabled on the scratchbox15:52
jacktheripperyou should.15:52
jacktheripperit's libqca2-dev btw15:52
paulythanks so much help15:52
paulyill just edit the sources list file and add the devel repo right?15:53
kpomanmmm what would be the best app to have the phone change cpu from 125 to 850MHz15:53
paulyits easy15:53
jacktheripperpauly, libqca2-dev and libqoauth-dev, install those and try after adding extras-devel15:54
jacktheripperkpoman, I think that when you overclock, the phone still drops down to 125mhz or 250mhz when idle.15:55
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paulyjacktheripper i add devel in both armel and x86 targets?15:55
kpomanjacktheripper: yep I am looking for an app that could change this and autostart15:55
kpomanor some widget15:55
jacktheripperpauly, depends on what you're trying to do, are you trying to build a package to install on the device ?15:56
jacktheripperpauly, you could just work on the armel target if so, but you won't lose anything if you add it to both15:56
paulyi am15:56
paulyokay thanks15:56
paulysry im a noob15:56
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jacktheripperkpoman, not sure what app does that best.15:57
kpomanjacktheripper: do you use any ? what is the most popular one at least to see it in screenshots / facts15:58
jacktheripperkpoman, I don't overclock, that's why. You could try googling the forum.15:58
Gyjfanyone tried the Nitendo DS emulator for n900?15:58
jacktheripperGyjf, yes, too slow.15:59
Gyjftoo bad :/15:59
Gyjfthe playstation emu then?15:59
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jacktheripperit's pretty good for some games, slow on a minority. But it's getting better!16:00
phrearch__hm, with uboot installed and multiboot at the same time, would it be possible to flash the kernel again?16:00
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phrearch__i prefer to have multiboot gone though16:01
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paulyjacktheripper: i added deb fremantle free non-free16:01
paulyto the sources list but it didnt work?16:01
Gyjfso, a game like Crash Bandicot 3, would that run fine?16:01
jacktheripperpauly, did you apt-get update ?16:01
Gyjfor tekken16:01
paulyGPG error: fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'16:02
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jacktheripperGyjf, I'm not sure, check the forum. There's a compatibility list too. games like FFVII and GT2 work well I think16:02
paulyim thinking i typed it wrong16:02
Gyjfi was worried since even the GBA emulatow was slow16:02
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jacktheripperpauly, I don't think GPG is a problem, did you try apt-get install ?16:04
jacktheripperGyjf, yeah, optimization problem, hardware is capable.16:04
paulyi tried apt-get update16:04
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Gyjfyea, thought so16:04
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jacktheripperpauly, try apt-get install libqca2-dev libqoauth-dev16:05
Gyjfare there any good native games that use the camera/accelerometer or such?16:05
jacktheripperGyjf, there's a program that prepares a palm pre environment on the N900 and runs many of its games, search the forum16:06
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paulygot it16:06
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paulyjacktheripper: still get same error when trying to make16:08
paulywitterapi.h:35:22: error: QtOAuth: No such file or directory16:08
paulymaybe it cant be ported? idk it was ported to diablo16:09
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jacktheripperpauly, not sure how to solve that, but the problem lies in not finding /usr/include/QtOAuth/QtOAuth which you just installed, check if it's there.16:14
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paulyya its there16:15
RST38hNokia has confirmed that it's terminating the music service formerly known as Comes With Music in most of the territories in which it operates, including the UK, by the end of the year.16:15
paulyjacktheripper: ya its there16:15
RST38hdidn't work?16:15
jacktheripperpauly, hrmm not sure16:15
paulythis is like ther first thing ive compiled from source16:16
pauly i think im doing something wrong but im not sure16:16
paulyqmake and then make, right?16:17
jacktheripperI have no idea16:17
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MohammadAG51Comes with Music, leaves without it16:17
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paulyive been tring for 3 days to install this16:20
paulycompile it16:20
ArkenoiRST38h, it was quite obvious that it is better to do what you can do reasonably well, i.e. phones, and stop fucking with fashion thingies like "we want to make money from services and infrastructure" (read: make our phones incompatible with those who do it well because of our own lame child)16:20
ArkenoiI wish nokia finally get some agreement with google about really *good* services integration and will focus on MAKING PHONES!16:20
jonwilIMO Symbian is outdated and should go, at least for the highest-end phones16:21
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Gyjfis it only me who cant find how to capture video with the n900?16:21
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: would it work if I connected a USB HDD to the N900 with host mode with an Y-cable whose other end I connected to the wall charger for power?16:22
MohammadAG51i suggest you rtfm :p16:22
Gyjfwhere is the setting for video/still?16:22
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MohammadAG51under the X button16:22
MohammadAG51there's an A16:22
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: I also ask for your opinion on this one16:22
MohammadAG51click it16:22
Gyjfaah thankyou16:22
Gyjfit was set on macro16:22
MohammadAG51you'll see the light16:22
Gyjfso i just thought that was the macro settingd lol :P16:23
MohammadAG51Venemo_N900, fire away16:23
RST38hArkenoi: <sigh>16:23
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: see above my post to DocScrutinizer16:23
RST38hArkenoi: Android.16:23
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Venemo_N900Arkenoi: if you know this well, why don't you start your own cell phone company?16:24
infobotaw, gee, Venemo_N90016:25
ArkenoiRST38h, others do it, even without adopting android.16:26
ArkenoiRST38h, almost any platform works flawlessly with google services except those made by Nokia16:26
khertan_Arkenoi: hum ... false ... freerunner have some problem too16:27
khertan_blackberry too :)16:27
ptlstop flaming maemo.16:27
Venemo_N900ptl: I agree with you!16:29
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MohammadAG51see the DVD vid :p16:30
Venemo_N900does it work the same way?16:30
MohammadAG51it's a Y cable connected to my PC/PS316:31
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: ok, but isn't it a problem that the data cords of the wall charger are short-circuited?16:31
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plr___ cinders? :) I receive internal error and after that those are not working until I restart16:32
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: I recall you or Doc saying that they are; and I dunno if it's a problem for the usb hdd16:34
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timeless_xchathow's it going mohammadag?16:50
MohammadAG51you're using a special 5V adapter right?16:50
MohammadAG51fine timeless_xchat, just got home from my exams :)16:50
MohammadAG51thp, thanks!16:50
timeless_xchatdid well, i hope?16:51
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: eh. I couldn't find such an adapter that would convert from microusb female to usb female...16:51
MohammadAG51yep :)16:51
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: that way I have no way of powering it :(16:51
MohammadAG51find a fake iPod charger16:52
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: congrats to the exams btw :P16:52
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: fake ipod charger?16:52
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: how does that look?16:52
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MohammadAG51AC to USB16:54
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MohammadAG51it's a full female USB port16:54
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luke-jrArkenoi: Google can't write code for beans. Just because other idiot-pleaser browsers tolerate this bad code, doesn't make it right.16:55
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: hmmm16:55
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: that should do what I need16:55
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: and since icrap is popular, I should be able to find such a charger easily16:56
maybeWTFTOO SOON16:56
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Venemo_N900maybeWTF: ?16:56
maybeWTFoh wait, jobs isn't dead yet16:56
Venemo_N900maybeWTF: lol16:57
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: although I'm surprised that icrap doesn't have a properitary charger...16:57
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: if I connect a mouse, will the cursor shw up?16:58
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timeless_xchatvenemo_n900 : eh?16:59
timeless_xchatapple has a spiffy set of universal adapters16:59
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: I didn't know16:59
timeless_xchatinterchangable plugs for the various stupid outlets16:59
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: I've never owned an apple product16:59
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timeless_xchatand interchangable charger bits for the various devices17:00
timeless_xchatessentially they've created their own standard17:00
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timeless_xchatbut it's better than the dozens of awkward and incompatible adapters each other vendor uses17:01
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timeless_xchatapple makes good hardware <period>17:01
timeless_xchatthey also charge for it17:01
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, they have one17:01
MohammadAGbut it's like 60 bucks17:01
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: yes, but they make not so good software17:01
nidOfoxconn are indeed a fairly high quality manufacture when they want to be17:01
timeless_xchatyou're free to dislike their software or disagree with their decisions17:01
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luke-jrApple /used to/ make good hardware.17:02
timeless_xchatbut you should respect their hardware17:02
luke-jrNow it's all x86 crap17:02
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: ?17:02
MohammadAGthey have a charger17:02
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: what I don't like is their price to value ratio17:02
timeless_xchatluke-jr: which hardware bothers you?17:02
luke-jrtimeless_xchat: x8617:02
timeless_xchatthe iPhone antenna?17:02
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: oh, so this is why you said I should look for a fake one17:02
timeless_xchatsome phone vendor interested in secrecy was going to screw that up17:03
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, you just need something like this
timeless_xchati was expecting it to be nokia :)17:03
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: mhm17:03
MohammadAGand given I found one in Israel...17:03
timeless_xchatluke-jr, ah well... commodity chips win out17:04
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: ok, I get your point17:04
luke-jrhow about commodity currency?17:04
MohammadAGwhile I was doing the exam17:04
MohammadAGI had the N900 on the charger (:P)17:04
MohammadAGthen when I was done (it had a full battery), I unplugged it17:04
Venemo_N900so? :P17:04
luke-jranyone want Civ 5?17:05
MohammadAG5 minutes later, it said "Recharge battery"17:05
MohammadAGI was like wtf17:05
nidOciv5 is bleh :(17:05
timeless_xchatluke-jr, the yuan?17:05
MohammadAGremoved battery, put it back in, 80% or somethin17:05
MohammadAGbme is crap17:05
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: :D17:05
MohammadAGall devices except mobiles do this properly17:05
phrearch__whats the preferred way to install power-kernel? i cant find it in devel anymore17:05
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: it siphoned your bioenergy and recharged from that17:06
MohammadAGLaptops, they say the laptop is about to go flat, hibernate? Shutdown? GTFO?17:06
trxlets all do a "stop bme" as a protest to nokia :)17:06
Venemo_N900phrearch__: apt-get?17:06
MohammadAGbut no, mobiles decide to shut down on your own17:06
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jonwilOk, just confirmed that there is nothing else usefull in the meego tree other than the MCE code I found before17:06
timeless_xchatmohammadag: bigger devices have more space and can afford more complicated components17:06
phrearch__Venemo: i tried both multiboot-power (but that was for 1.2 i saw later) and uboot, but both left me with an unbootable n90017:06
MohammadAGtimeless_xchat, bme can ask me "Shall I shut down or let your device die, corrupting data and such?"17:07
timeless_xchatmohammadag: i've asked about hibernate17:07
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: my laptop does that17:07
MohammadAGI'd go for the latter, since I _KNOW_ the battery is charged17:07
jonwilfinding that MCE source code in the meego repos was very good though :)17:08
timeless_xchatiirc they insisted that supporting that last minute 911 (112) call was more important17:08
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AranelAnyone want to check out and help me about it? Pleease?17:08
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: ok, first random phone shop on the street didn't have such a charger17:08
MohammadAGonTextChanged(), if text == 911 || test = 112), emergencyButton->show();17:09
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Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: I've never, ever made an emergency call17:12
timeless_xchatmohammadag: the idea is that the cost of suspending gracefully (in terms of battery) is something that the user might want for making that 911 call17:12
timeless_xchatvenemo_n900 : right, but... imagine you have a loved-one who needs that call made17:13
timeless_xchatoh wait, this is a linux channel,  no loved-ones?17:13
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lardmanno 91117:13
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MohammadAGtimeless_xchat, wait, so if I call 911 my battery will extend its life?17:13
* MohammadAG posts on tmo17:13
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: I have a loved one, but she also hasn't used emergency calls yet.17:13
lardmanMohammadAG: ask them to put you through to the loved one you were wanting to call?17:14
timeless_xchatvenemo_n900, and you hope they'll never need to17:14
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: why would se need that call made?17:14
timeless_xchatbut you want them to be able to17:14
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: ok, I get your point17:14
timeless_xchatbecause my loved-ones are in two rooms around me for the first time in years17:14
timeless_xchatand one of their phones was acquired almost entirely for emergency use17:15
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timeless_xchathey, comes with music is dead!17:21
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phrearch__hm, besides uboot, what kernel packages do i need?17:23
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phrearch__hm ok nice. got that working17:27
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phrearch__is overclocking not allowed anymore with kernel-power?17:35
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Venemo_N900so timeless_xchat, if I ask for an "ipod charger", I will get a standard ac to usb converter?17:41
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thpMohammadAG: will you merge it into your H-D build? :)17:45
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MohammadAG51thp, already did17:48
MohammadAG51check your post17:48
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thpnice :)17:49
thpMohammadAG51: it turns out i like that non-blur desaturation much more than the blur effect :p17:49
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Venemo_N900how can I ask Maemo to give me a mouse cursor when I plug in a mouse with h-e-n?17:50
MohammadAG51thp, it's faster, and it looks sexy :)17:50
MohammadAG51automatically, you don't :P17:50
MohammadAG51then use togglemouse17:50
Venemo_N900aah, okay17:50
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Venemo_N900thanks MohammadAG5117:51
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: with this package installed, will the bt hid whatever daemon run continuously too?17:54
Venemo_N900MohammadAG51: it started something called bluetoothd17:55
MohammadAG51that's the normal maemo 5 bt daemon17:56
Venemo_N900ah, ok17:56
Venemo_N900will h-e-n able to recognize a hub with multiple stuff plugged in?17:56
Venemo_N900will h-e-n be able to recognize a hub with multiple stuff plugged in?17:57
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MohammadAG51the USB driver will17:57
Venemo_N900great :)17:57
Venemo_N900all that remains is that ipod charger17:58
timeless_xchatvenemo_n900: you should get a standard ac to usb jack, you get to bring your own usb to usb micro cable17:58
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: I need it to power a USB HDD17:59
* timeless_xchat isn't sure jack is the right word17:59
timeless_xchatvenemo_n900 : ok, usb to whatever :)17:59
Venemo_N900timeless_xchat: since obviously an N900 won't be able to power it :)17:59
timeless_xchatnot sure about its output range17:59
thptimeless_xchat: "powered usb hub"?17:59
timeless_xchatthp: with just one port?18:00
Venemo_N900thp: I don't have a powered usb hub18:00
* timeless_xchat wouldn't call one port a hub18:00
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thptimeless_xchat: "active repeater"?18:01
thpVenemo_N900: just buy a powered usb hub. they are cheap and you can connect more devices.18:01
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timeless_xchatthp: they're probably bigger ;)18:02
Venemo_N900thp: ok, I'll look for one then18:02
timeless_xchatand less shiny18:02
timeless_xchatbut yeah, unless you're traveling internationally, i wouldn't go out of my way to get this apple component18:02
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Venemo_N900you convinced me18:04
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DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: yes if you do that after clicking vbus boost18:25
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DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: in a Y-cable, the "power" trunk has no data wires18:37
Venemo_N900thx DocScrutinizer18:37
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DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: the concern is you mustn't apply VBUS voltage to N900 - no matter internally (vboost) or external VBUS - before you clicked vboost in h-e-n. It's ok though to plug in the USB after clicking vboost, even when it's connected to usb charger and HDD18:42
DocScrutinizeryou should hurry though, there are certain timeouts18:43
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: what would happen if I simply plugged the usb hdd into the n900?18:49
kerioyeah right18:50
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alteregoQt makes quite a nice foundation for a graphics engine :)18:52
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DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: most likely overcurrent protection of vboost converter would trip and vbus voltage drops and booston script errs out18:54
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DocScrutinizereffectively that's blocking hostmode operation until you stop and restart h-e-n18:54
alteregoNow to get my pixel buffer render sorted and set about some nice UI integration18:55
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: hm18:56
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: problem is, I wasn't able to find neither a self-powered hub, nor an adapter for the wall charger, nor an ac->usb charger18:57
DocScrutinizerstrange, AC->USB charges/adapters are sold here in every supermarket and gas station18:58
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DocScrutinizerwell, the large ones at least18:58
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DaReaperDoes Aircrack-ng work with Nokias kernel ?18:59
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: alas I have no idea what advice to give18:59
DocScrutinizerDaReaper: nope19:00
DaReaperor i need Kernel power 46 ?19:00
DaReapershould that do ? ^19:01
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: here they only sell ac->microusb male and ac->miniusb male19:01
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DocScrutinizerhmm, I see. So splice up something DIY?19:02
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: DIY=?19:04
infobotwell, diy is do-it-yourself; sans distro19:04
Venemo_N900I don't have the necessary equipment19:04
DocScrutinizerthen I really don't see how to help you out. ebay?19:05
Venemo_N900if I did, that would be my 1st choice19:05
Venemo_N900nah, I'll just wait for my laptop to return from repair19:05
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DocScrutinizerhow's that going to help? (except for hooking HDD up to laptop rather than N900)19:06
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I don't really need to access the hdd from the n900. it would be fun though19:09
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Venemo_N900ok, I got home19:12
Venemo_N900it recognizes mouse movement, but not clicks :(19:12
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DocScrutinizerjust try what's going to happen when you simply hook it up. Lemme point you to a script that's going to help you a bit...19:17
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Aranel example is not working. It only shows up Skype contacts, not Cellphone ones.19:46
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Venemo_N900Aranel: under what user account do you run it?19:50
AranelVenemo_N900: oops, root. :|19:50
Venemo_N900Aranel: try running it as "user" user19:51
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kpomanhi again !19:51
Araneloh ok It's working now :) Sorry, I forgot that I'm using SSH sometimes.19:51
kpomancan someone please help me, I have Xorg using 50% cpu and it wont stop using it19:52
kpomanis there a way to see what is going on ?19:52
kpomanI checked the logfile and there is nothing interesting there19:52
Venemo_N900Aranel: it is a known thing that you can't access contacts via other accounts19:52
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kpomando someone know if there is a known bug with xorg eating 100% cpu ?20:02
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jacekowskikpoman: it's normal20:03
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kpomanare u kidding :)20:04
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kpomaneven without any action or whatever20:04
kpomanhow do I increase verbose on the logs ?20:04
jacekowskiyou can't20:04
jacekowskithat's all you will get20:05
kpomanit is not normal20:05
jacekowskiif you run htop or something that's enough to cause quite a bit of load on xorg20:05
jacekowskirun htop via ssh20:05
kpomanyep but yesterday I got conky all day and xorg was about 5%20:05
kpomannow it is about 100% all time without stopping20:05
jacekowskimaybe then your cpu was running at higher speed20:06
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kpomannow it is a 850MHz and 50%20:06
jacekowskithat explains it20:06
jacekowskifirst, run it at normal speed20:06
kpomanwhat would cpu speed has to do ?20:07
jacekowskithermal throttling20:07
jacekowskiand ram not running with higher latencies20:07
infobotjacekowski meant: s//20:08
jacekowskilot of possibilities20:08
jacekowskioverclocking is bad20:08
kpomanlet me reboot the phone20:08
jacekowskiand gives you bricked device at best20:08
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kpomanjacekowski: but not constantly overclocking. there is an ondemand governor which should do its job20:09
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jacekowskioverclocking is bad20:09
jacekowskieven running it at 600MHz for longer period of time is bad20:10
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kpomanjust reoboted it. now xorg takes less than 1%20:11
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kpomanbut I already saw it some times get to 50% or 100% without anything particular. like if it was on infinite loop of something20:12
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kpomanjust ran swappolube, let me see if that caused the problem20:15
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TheJdoes someone know how to add a new script to the greasemonkey addon in n900?20:26
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TheJor the folder where i should move the script?20:27
kpomanapparently its not him. let me now see firefox20:29
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kpomanapparently not fennec / firefox neither20:32
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mikki-kunfennec is a ressource-hogger20:39
mikki-kunwe have micro-B which is imo a way better browser20:39
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jacekowskiopera is better20:43
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mikki-kunjacekowski: not if you want flash ;)20:46
* pahartik has ended up using Fennec on Maemo, even though it lacks "load this bitmap image document this time" context menu entry20:46
Venemo_N900Fennec is not bad, it just needs some optimalization20:47
jacekowskiit's firefox based20:48
mikki-kunit takes like 20 secs on my device to load20:48
jacekowskiwell, it takes 10s on full blown desktop to load20:48
jacekowski20s is not so bad on phone20:48
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mikki-kunjacekowski: microB loads in way less time :)20:49
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mikki-kunsure fennec has some nice features, but microB still just loads way faster and is in general more usable somehow20:50
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Venemo_N900microb is also FF-based20:50
mikki-kunyup :)20:50
mikki-kunso why not use the faster fox ;)20:50
Venemo_N900but microb is on the rootfs and is preloaded on startup.20:50
Venemo_N900so it has an unfair advantage20:51
Venemo_N900+ fennec is just beta, not final20:51
wmaroneeven after being loaded fennec is horribly slow :/20:51
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mikki-kunhow can we build our own rootfs?20:51
wmaroneyou don't want to20:52
mikki-kuni've seen how much of a fiasco the FIASCO really is...20:52
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mikki-kunor is it even dirtier?20:52
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: you can put anything on the rootfs if you wanna20:53
mikki-kunVenemo_N900: i wanted to have a flashable image of that so i can have a bunch of different root-fs's20:53
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eichihow can i see, which firmware version of maemo5 i have installed?20:55
jacekowskisettings -> about20:55
jacekowskiit's all in google20:55
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: hm. there is an infamous app called "bootmenu" which makes it possible to make an image from your current rootfs20:55
mikki-kunVenemo_N900: hm, i heard it fails at times pretty hard :)20:56
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KevinBHi guys20:58
KevinBdo you think swaplubbe is really efficient ?20:58
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KevinBI even think it may decrease performance... that s how it feels20:59
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meceI guess it depends entirely on how you use the device.21:01
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meceI haven't tried it in a long time, but it felt slower when I tried it.21:01
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* pahartik certainly hopes that "load image" will appear in Fennec context menu by first release version21:03
mikki-kunfrom my experience it worked better with swapolube21:03
bjvthat's just vfs cache pressure, etc. tuning, yes?21:04
Venemo_N900pahartik: open a bugreport about it21:05
Venemo_N900bjv: yes21:05
mikki-kunbjv: yeah, some kernel-parameters getting tuned21:05
bjvvm/page-cluster is interesting21:06
bjvthat might interact well/poorly with ramzez21:06
jacekowskinot really21:06
pahartikVenemo_N900: Can you refer to bug database interface by URL?21:06
jacekowskiit's just how much data will be swapped at once21:06
bjvwhich could be interesting with ramzez21:06
bjvi feel like swap partition on external card, is still pretty fast21:07
mikki-kunbjv: depends on your card :)21:08
Venemo_N900pahartik: (what a surprise)21:08
bjvbut i can get slammed with 20+ sec waits if i run too many browsers+ maemo mapper21:08
mikki-kunmy class2 certainly should not be used for it ^^21:08
bjvwhere as with ramzez, it runs at about the same pace as swap partition21:08
bjvuntil i exceed the ramzez swap device and go out onto disk21:09
bjvbut even that only puts me in 8sec ish wait territory21:09
bjvwhile running the same workloads21:09
pahartikVenemo_N900: Thank you21:09
Venemo_N900pahartik: yw :)21:10
Venemo_N900pahartik: give me the url of the bug once you open it in order for me to vote21:10
Venemo_N900pahartik: (I would also find this feature useful)21:10
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kpomando someone know something about SmartReflex ?21:15
jacekowskiwhat is the problem21:15
mikki-kunwhat is that?21:15
jacekowskidrivers are broken21:15
jacekowskiit's not working21:15
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kpomanjacekowski: how do I enable it and still have a stable os ?21:16
jacekowskiyou don't21:16
jacekowskiunless you want to write working driver21:16
kpomanjacekowski: how to use it ?21:16
jacekowskiit's builtin cpu thing21:16
kpomanjacekowski: or what to do to have better battery time ?21:16
jacekowskiand there are no working drivers21:16
jacekowskiget better battery21:16
jacekowskinot use skype21:17
jacekowskibut you won't get more than 2 days anyways21:17
kpomanwhat do you mean ? even using nothing I get about 6 hours21:17
jacekowskimaybe 321:17
jacekowskiget new battery21:17
kpomanjacekowski: it is new. completely new phone. got it last week21:17
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jacekowskido you have skype enabled?21:18
Venemo_N900kpoman: reflash with latest release and read the tips on TMO21:18
kpomanjacekowski: yep but did not chat or whatever21:18
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jacekowskidisable skype21:19
kpomanVenemo_N900: I have latest, PR1.3 ? which command line gives enough detail ?21:19
jacekowskikeeping skype enabled keeps connection enabled21:19
jacekowskiand modem is transmitting all the time21:19
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jacekowskiwhich on it's own kills battery21:19
jacekowskiand if you have less than optimal signal it's even worse21:19
kpomanjacekowski: why other phones have fring or msn or skype or whatever and last for many days ?21:19
jacekowskilike what/21:20
kpomanI understand21:20
kpomanwant to use the phone. if not, let me use those old nokia lasting for 5 days21:20
jacekowskithere are no other phones that have skype and last days21:20
jacekowskifirst, n900 is not a phone21:20
jacekowskiit's a tablet21:20
Venemo_N900kpoman: constant data connection will drain your battery. period.21:20
Venemo_N900kpoman: I usually manage to get a day or so of battery life21:21
pahartikVenemo_N900: Reading through list of titles at "" to see if report already exists21:21
kpomanVenemo_N900: yep sure. I already disabled facebook widget and some other stuff... however skype is part of the interest in having a smart phone21:21
lcukjacekowski, technically, the n810 has skype and lasts quite a while.21:21
mikki-kunkpoman: also set-up your mail-receiving times to like once an hour and not every 5 minutes21:21
kpomanmikki-kun: I did that today. put from 5m to 15m for imap21:21
wmaronelcuk: but is it integrated like the N900, or a standalone app like on the iPhone?21:21
Venemo_N900kpoman: well then live with the consequences21:21
mikki-kunset down the brightness a notch or two (i have it on 3) and that will already help you21:21
jacekowskiwell, e-mails are nothing compared to skype21:21
kpomanI also wanted to disable attachment autodownload but seems like the funcionality doesnt exist on modest21:21
lcukwmarone, afaik (its been a while) its integrated :)21:22
mikki-kunkpoman: 15 mins... do you rely that heavily on emails?21:22
lcukits been a long while actually21:22
kpomanmikki-kun: yep lot, I have many hours fuses21:22
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mikki-kunjacekowski: if you have three email-accounts syncing and you get on some ridicolously large emails it will drain your bat21:22
kpomanwork with people from colombia, argentina, brazil, and france21:22
kpomanalmost 8h gap21:22
kpomanmails anytime all the time21:22
Venemo_N900kpoman: 6 hours is quite good with a constant data connection.21:22
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mikki-kunohhhh, and tracker...21:23
* lcuk turns off computer 21:23
mikki-kunthe tracker is said to be somewhat powerhungry at times21:23
kpomanVenemo_N900: how do I tune the phone to work as a blackberry for example21:23
jacekowskibtw. is push working on MfE on N900?21:23
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mikki-kunkpoman: buy a blackberry :)21:24
kpomanVenemo_N900: I mean I used that 8310 bb for say 3 to 4 days21:24
Venemo_N900kpoman: so what then?21:24
mikki-kunkpoman: did you run there skype? :)21:24
kpomanmikki-kun: no skype ... however I think that OVI thing of nokia should be there to help21:24
kpomanand do thing like mail caching21:24
kpomanor whatever21:24
kpomaninstead of spam21:24
Venemo_N900kpoman: increase the e-mail interval. then reduce screen brigness. switch to 2G if you don't need 3G speed.21:24
mikki-kunohhh and are you on 3g or wlan?21:24
kpomanI think BB uses a lot of BB services to optimize network flow or whatever21:25
jacekowskiand dsable skype21:25
jacekowskiwith bb you have server that does all heavy lifting21:25
Venemo_N900kpoman: install autodisconnect. it will disconnect unused data connections21:25
jacekowskiand phone that get's all nice digested data21:25
kpomanthat would be interesting on n900 / ovi21:25
mikki-kunkpoman: that doesn't make stuff better :) running skype does decrease your battery lifetime by some more or less huge amount :)21:25
kpomanor whatever the name of that spam thing is called21:25
Venemo_N900kpoman: and only login to skype if you use it. if not, log out and disconnect21:25
Venemo_N900kpoman: this is all I can tell21:26
kpomanmikki-kun: see, a server could help indexing mails, show only new stuff, allow searching, preview attachments, pass a small part of the text and more if needed, etc...21:26
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Venemo_N900kpoman: there're posts about smartreflex on tmo, but it makes the device freeze and randomly reboot for some people21:27
kpomanVenemo_N900: yep.. that happened to me21:28
jacekowskikpoman: and overclocking makes battery life shorter as well21:28
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kpomanVenemo_N900: maybe this happens with specific kernel. I have the power 46 right now. and got reboots with freq scaing with max 850MHz21:28
Venemo_N900kpoman: HAH21:29
kpomanjacekowski: yes in general, but I suppose you should also put the display and network and all in the equation21:29
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jacekowskioverclocking will break your device21:29
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kpomanI mean, if you stay for 5 minutes waiting for a stuff to load, it will eat maybe more memory than if you stay 3 minutes21:29
kpomanjacekowski: ok I will disable that :p21:29
mikki-kunCaptain CAPS and his crew are present :)21:29
kpomanI dont care much about overclocking21:30
kpomanjust tested today for the first time21:30
Venemo_N900lol mikki-kun :P21:30
mikki-kunkpoman: how much email do you get in an hour?21:30
kpomanmikki-kun: I get about 5 emails per hour21:30
kpomanhalf of them have attachments of more that 1MB21:30
mikki-kunhm... so are you getting the 6h on wlan or 3g?21:30
kpomanmikki-kun: I actually dont have really graphs about battery usage. only today. I put it with full charge at 7AM then at 2PM it was already dead21:31
Venemo_N900kpoman: bring with yourself a charger then.21:32
Venemo_N900kpoman: also buy a car charger21:32
kpomanhad maybe some imap usage (about 20MB of attachments)21:32
kpomannot a lot of stuff21:32
mikki-kun*sigh* i didn't ask about graphs, i asked about whether you use 3g or wlan :)21:32
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kpomanVenemo_N900: I would prefer, by now, to find out what is the common sense to improve bat life21:32
kpomanfor example mail check frequency,21:32
kpomannot do download attachments alone21:32
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kpomanput to 2g instead of 3g (is that true ???)21:33
Venemo_N900kpoman: I already told you about a dozen ways to improve battery life21:33
kpomanI read that SmartReflex is "the must"21:33
kpomanbut is unstable with some configs21:33
kpomanI wonder if we are able to see how to make it stable21:33
Venemo_N900kpoman: there is a status menu applet which allows you to change between 2G 3G and dual with a single click21:34
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kpomanVenemo_N900: yep just installed one to do that21:34
mikki-kunahhhh and don't use widgets which pool data lik every 5 minutes :)21:34
kpomanmikki-kun: took off that facebook thing21:35
kpomandont have that21:35
jacekowskimikki-kun: poll*21:35
Venemo_N900or set the update interval of those widgets to a higher number21:35
mikki-kunjacekowski: ohhh, i thought it was pool ^^21:35
kpomanI think the problem with skype is that its network protocol tries lot of different routes all the time21:35
kpomanto improve comm quality21:35
kpomanso I get all the time like 15 connexions trying to login21:36
kpomanthat sucks21:36
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Venemo_N900SpeedEvil: were you the one with whom I talked about how to run a video in the background?21:38
mikki-kunkpoman: either use it or not :) but if you want better battery life think about what you really need on it21:39
Venemo_N900lcuk: I tried to email Jonny Lamb, but seems that he no longer has the address that is in the package interface21:42
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kpomanmikki-kun: do you know o a good battery logger21:47
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mikki-kunbattery logger?21:48
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kpomanbattery charge logger ... I am right now using battery eye application21:48
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Venemo_N900kpoman: there's batteryeye and batterygraph21:49
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kpomanyep, battery eye seems quite good ... it was not updating but now does :p I was just impatient21:50
kpomanVenemo_N900: do you know if there is an app able to log amount of traffic by PID or whatever ?21:52
kpomanto see who is connecting, how much time, how much data etc...21:52
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kpomanI suppose skype is using a lot of battery but would like to see it in numbers21:52
kpomanand also (general question), is an established tcp connexion the same than a voice communication ?21:52
kpomanin terms of battery usage21:53
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iluminator101is there call forwarding service this way i dont have to give out my real number?21:55
lcukVenemo_N900, which address?21:55
Venemo_N900lcuk: the one that is in his package info21:56
Venemo_N900lcuk: I hot a delivery error for it21:56
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lcukVenemo_N900, pm me the address you are using21:56
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iluminator101is there a service i can get a fake number as a call forwarder, this way i dont have have to give out my real number?21:57
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kpomanSpeedEvil: thank you for the link... let me read it21:58
lcukand Venemo_N900 which specific package name version link21:58
mikki-kuniluminator101: i am not sure, but i guess those forwarders cost money21:58
SpeedEvilkpoman: In short - anything active over 3G is expensive if it uses more than a packet or two every 5 minutes21:58
iluminator101Mikki-kun depends how much they cost21:59
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kpomanSpeedEvil: yep right22:03
kpomanSpeedEvil: seems like, even with a great protocol telling all that is going on (mails, IM, etc...) every 30s, the best one could get is about 24 hours of battery life22:05
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kpomaninterpreting the line with long pings on 2g each 30s22:05
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Venemo_N900kpoman: 24 hours should be more than enough22:05
Venemo_N900kpoman: you just put it on the charger for the night.22:05
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kpomanyep sure, but implying something managing all your IM/etc... server side22:05
mikki-kuni usually put my n900 every night on the charger22:06
mikki-kunkpoman: that would be a security risk to some of us22:06
kpomanSo I guess something really useful for nokia would be to have something useful serverside like blackberry et al22:06
mikki-kuni rahter have my own server doing that22:06
SpeedEvilkpoman: yeah - or on your server22:06
kpomanmikki-kun: there are crypto stuff22:06
kpomanblackberry for example tells it crypts everything22:06
mikki-kunkpoman: still it has to be decrypted and everything encrypted can be decrypted and hacked ;)22:07
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mikki-kunkpoman: it tells, but does it really do in countries like india? ;) nopes, not there22:07
kpomanmikki-kun: yes I know :) but relying on existing technology like ssl or whatever ... openvpn for example22:07
mikki-kunssl can be hacked rather easily22:07
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mikki-kunat least i was told22:08
kpomanmikki-kun: yes but it is quite useful and common22:08
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kpomando you know if there is such a service ? like joining the whole IM/mail/social stuff server side ?22:08
kpomanand able to resume the whole thing every x seconds or whatever22:09
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MrBawbkpoman: I think there are some jabber-based services that do IM aggregation.  I don't know if that would yield power savings, though22:10
kpomanMrBawb: ok thanks for the tip ... I will try to find some info on that ...22:11
MrBawbthere's also bitlbee (irc based IM aggregation), but it doesn't match up well with an IM client22:11
mikki-kunkpoman: tbh i wouldn't use such a feature, if not on my own server...22:11
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kpomanmikki-kun: I mean seems like blackberry makes extensive use of that and battery behaves well22:12
mikki-kunMrBawb: bitlbee is good, but needs an irc client22:12
mikki-kunkpoman: try not using skype a battery charge and see how long it will be online ;)22:12
MrBawbskype seems to be a very chatty protocol22:12
kpomanmikki-kun: ok, with battery eye it will be more noticeable22:13
mikki-kunkpoman: don't trust battery eye too much22:13
mikki-kunjust use your own feeling :)22:13
mikki-kunand was that 6h on 3g?22:14
* alterego contemplates stereoscopic glasses connected to two N900s each running my gfx engine22:14
mikki-kunalterego: you wrote an gfx-engine?? :o22:15
kpomanbtw battery eye seems to bug when connected the device as mass storage22:15
kpomanto a charging pc22:15
alteregomikki-kun: writing :)22:15
pahartikmikki-kun: Makes me think of clever power-saving features in IRC proxy... Would delay messages by few rules to be sent in burst... Would also increase efficiency of compression in SSH port forwarding22:15
kpomanmaybe those mount points22:15
alteregomikki-kun: based on Qt22:16
SpeedEvilpahartik: yes - that would help22:16
kpomando you guys know if there is a way to cirvunvent having both mount point on the pc AND on the device ?22:16
kpomanI mean, when I connect as mass storage, it dismounts from the device, causing apps to die or whatever22:16
kpomanisnt there a -o bind options ?22:16
kpomanor something ?22:16
SpeedEvilCan't work like that.22:16
SpeedEvilThe problem is that teh mass storage mount mounts it as a block device.22:16
mikki-kunpahartik: what do you need ssh for in bitlbee?22:17
SpeedEvilSo, the PC does not do 'delete foo.mpeg'22:17
SpeedEvilIt writes to the FAT, and other control structures, to delete the file22:17
SpeedEvilThis is basically impossible to allow on both sides at once.22:17
kpomanI understand... the only solution would be to mount as a windows share or whatever22:18
SpeedEvilThe only way round it is to build a virtual filesystem, and present that to the PC as a 'real' one.22:18
kpomanpassing via a client server thing22:18
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SpeedEvilThis is complex.22:18
SpeedEvilyes, or that22:18
pahartikmikki-kun: I do not use "bitlbee" but I route IRC, IMAP, HTTP and such through compressed IPv6 SSH port forwarding...22:19
kpomanor maybe to export to windows a kind of fake fs on a ramdisk or whatever that would copy to the local fs22:19
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SpeedEvilkpoman: yes, that works too, but then of course, you have the problem that you can't access it all.22:19
MohammadAGalterego, interesting :p22:20
SpeedEvilkpoman: there isn't a nice soution that lets it work flawlessly with all use-cases unfortunately.22:20
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mikki-kunpahartik: hmmmm, if you have the upload/download you should do it :)22:20
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SpeedEvilpahartik: In principle - you can then do the above by setting up a queue on your server22:21
bjvI just drop everything onto the device via sftp22:21
SpeedEvilpahartik: It simply only sends packets every 30s22:21
pahartikmikki-kun: My Nokia N900 is mobile network IPv6 router 24/7 and Bluetooth PAN when needed by laptop workstation or other devices22:23
pahartikSpeedEvil: "bitlbee" has configurable delay for IRC?22:23
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Venemo_N900hi again22:27
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MohammadAGhi Venemo_N90022:29
Venemo_N900hi MohammadAG22:30
pahartikSpeedEvil: 30 seconds sounds good, but I thought of additional rules... Queue up to 2 messages per nickname per channel, run queue whenever client sends...22:30
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: DocScrutinizer tried to help me but it seems that the N900 will never be able to supply enough power to the hdd22:30
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: he also asked me to reprimand you for not optifying the booston script22:31
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MrBawbpahartik: I setup a bluetooth pan script to auto-configure the interface when it came up. would you be interested in it?22:32
pahartikSpeedEvil: And since I use "proxy" module of Irssi, would be nice to get rules implemented in it...22:32
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: :P22:32
pahartikMrBawb: Sure I would like to see22:33
MrBawbpahartik: ok22:33
MohammadAGbooston is just some kbs22:33
MohammadAGdoes it _have_ to be optified? :P22:33
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: I don't care :P talk about it with Doc22:34
MohammadAGthe notorious lcuk, always lurking around22:34
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SpeedEvilpahartik: did you get that last burst of 5 lines?22:35
Venemo_N900(he is always lcuking around)22:35
* lcuk became notorious when?22:35
* SpeedEvil imagines lcuk as a rapper.22:35
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lcukMohammadAG, when did I become notorious? was it sometime during my Magnum marathon yesterday?22:36
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MohammadAG(what marathon? lol)22:36
SpeedEvilpahartik: (08:31:45 PM) SpeedEvil: yes - for IRC you want more than a dumb client It's pretty simple in principle to do.  As you 'never' want to bother the n900 to have it respond to ping requests from the sever22:36
SpeedEvil: I was meaning - this may have a point if you insert it not in the IRC, but in the general compressed feed22:36
pahartikMrBawb: Current state is that I just have to "z ; q ; v ; x" after connecting workstation... Most important commands I store to one character aliases in Maemo device22:36
lcukMagnum P.I. first series DVD22:36
lcukthe intro credit music isn't introduced until the 12th episode o_O (which is on now!)22:37
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pahartikSpeedEvil: Acknowledged22:39
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, lcuk would rap about maemo I guess22:40
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mikki-kunhm... how can i get the "IP" of my n900 when it is only connected to 2g?22:43
MrBawbphellarv: it uses dbus-scripts to notice the pan interface goign up/down22:43
MohammadAGmikki-kun, same way you do when it's connected to wifi22:43
MohammadAGand why does it matter, most operators won't let you do anything other than interwebz22:44
MohammadAGtimeless_xchat, got updates for gettext, I'm assuming they're safe?22:44
mikki-kunMohammadAG: i was thinking about using said connection to send 2 commands in case it gets stolen (and using that connection to ping my server the ip it currently uses) one rendering nolo broken and the other to forcing it to shut down :)22:45
timeless_xchati've roasted two computers22:45
timeless_xchati'm not here except to ask for help22:45
mikki-kuntimeless_xchat: wow, medium, or bloody? :)22:45
pahartikmikki-kun: "ip ad"22:46
MohammadAGmikki-kun, breaking NOLO in case it gets stolen eh22:46
jacekowskinolo can be fixed22:46
jacekowskii was thinking about encryption22:46
jacekowskiand breaking encryption keys22:46
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MohammadAGbut it's a bit extreme22:46
timeless_xchatmikki-kun: 99% of one computer's file system isn't available22:46
timeless_xchatincluding a network enabled terminal22:47
MohammadAGat least 1%'s there22:47
mikki-kunjacekowski: who knows how to properly flash nolo? ;)22:47
timeless_xchatthe other is a server and its web service is down22:47
infobotcoldflash is, like, and next ~200 posts, or
MohammadAGhe does22:47
mikki-kunand who else besides him? :)22:48
MohammadAGit's documented22:48
mikki-kunwhere is it properly documented?22:48
MohammadAGso, everyone who can RTFM22:48
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MohammadAGsee wiki page above22:48
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Venemo_N900well said MohammadAG22:50
mikki-kund'oh, sorry i didn't see the wiki-link :/22:50
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mikki-kunit kinda went in one eye and went out the other without staying in my brain22:50
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mikki-kunbut who knows nolo is broken? :)22:51
mikki-kunnot many users out there even know what the n900 is capable of :)22:51
mikki-kunbut encryption is another point i might add :)22:51
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jacekowskimikki-kun: i do22:51
mikki-kunhas anybody se far experience with encryption on the n900?22:52
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mikki-kuncurious how much it might slow the n900 down22:52
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Venemo_N900depends on what you wanna encrypt and how22:53
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, DocScrutinizer51 ping22:53
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mikki-kunVenemo_N900: full emmc and the microSD :)22:57
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Venemo_N900mikki-kun: filesystem-wide encryption?22:58
mikki-kunhm, how much is that different from containers?22:58
MohammadAGthat's a CPU raper22:59
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: interesting idea, but it would definitely kill the usability of your device23:00
mikki-kunMohammadAG: you tried encrypting the FS's?23:01
MohammadAGno, theorically, it's a CPU raper23:01
MohammadAGneed to a way to test for hostmode alive23:03
MohammadAGalterego, if I hide() a MainWindow, what's the only way to restore it?23:03
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: show()23:03
MohammadAGtray icons aren't supported I think23:03
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, it's hidden23:04
MohammadAGnow window at all23:04
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: hide() = setVisibility(false) and show() = setVisibility(true)23:04
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: what would you like to achieve?23:04
pahartikMrBawb: Are your scripts going to end up in "Maemo wiki"?23:05
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, hiding h-e-n's mainwindow on X if hostmode is active23:05
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: to what end?23:05
MrBawbpahartik: I want to package them properly eventually23:05
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, hiding it completely23:05
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: I thought the way to disable hostmode is to close h-e-n23:06
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MohammadAGsome users want it to stay active23:06
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: well maybe you should consider making it a statusbar applet or a control panel applet23:06
MohammadAGstatus bar is Gtk, I failed epically with DBus there23:06
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MohammadAGI mean, I got the applet and all23:07
Venemo_N900you already have expertise with cp applets23:07
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MohammadAGthose are Qt23:07
MohammadAGyou can have Qt applets23:07
MohammadAGbut not Qt status bar items23:07
Venemo_N900gtk isn't that hard23:08
Venemo_N900anyway, I can help when I get back my damn laptop23:09
Venemo_N900I hope they'll really repair it23:09
MohammadAGthe applet is done23:09
MohammadAGbut DBus-Glib or whatever it's called is hard23:09
Venemo_N900what if you call QtDBus?23:09
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MohammadAGfrom Gtk?23:09
* MohammadAG shrugs23:09
Venemo_N900yes, why not23:09
MrBawbMohammadAG: what difficulty are you having with dbus-glib?23:10
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Venemo_N900of course you'll need c++ files and your headers marked with extern c23:10
MohammadAGMrBawb, can't figure it out :P23:10
MohammadAG applet23:11
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I retried with fully charged battery23:12
MrBawbMohammadAG: I have some code that calls dbus through the glib interface, would that help?23:12
mikki-kunMohammadAG: may i ask how you removed the blur?23:12
MohammadAGI didn't, thp did :)23:13
MohammadAGMrBawb, anything would help really23:13
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: the hdd makes a much louder sound but still seems to be unable to spin up23:13
MrBawbMohammadAG: there is also:
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I don't get any error message from h-e-n though23:14
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MohammadAGMrBawb, thanks, I'l ll have a look at those when I update h-e-n, should be soon :)23:14
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Venemo_N900not much is missing, but it still doesn't work... :(23:17
mikki-kunMohammadAG: hm, is it in your hildon modification or does it work independantly?23:18
MohammadAGmikki-kun, thp made the patch, not me23:18
mikki-kunahhhh, so it is a patch :) i thought a setting :)23:19
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, what are you doing?\23:19
mikki-kun*searching the forums for it*23:19
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: it was my second try with the usb hdd, this time with full battery23:20
MohammadAGbattery doesn't matter23:21
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MohammadAGwhat steps are you doing?23:21
Venemo_N900it matters!23:21
Venemo_N900with low battery, the script tells me battery low23:21
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MohammadAGyou can do hostmode on 1% battery life23:21
MohammadAGwhat script o_O23:21
Venemo_N900no I can't.23:21
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MohammadAGyes, you can23:21
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer's new booston script23:22
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MohammadAGuse the one from -devel23:22
Venemo_N900it told me to charge my battery23:22
MohammadAGI'll have a look at DocScrutinizer's stuff and wrap it up nicely23:22
Venemo_N900he sent me it himself and told me to replace the original one23:22
Venemo_N900after replacing booston, the gui also uses his new script23:23
mikki-kunMohammadAG: ohhh, wow you even built a desaturate-hildon out of thp's patch :) can i just install that and my already installed patches like vertical settings will just work or do i have to reapply them again?23:23
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lcukMohammadAG, configurator.23:23
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, yes, I know, but use the old one, it's the one we all tested23:23
wmaronehm, HAM isn't woring anymore :/23:23
MohammadAGlcuk, hum?23:24
lcukfor people to have a hildon with all patches included23:24
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: anyway. with low-charged battery the hdd led lit up and the hdd gave a very silent clicking sound23:24
lcukconfigurator to allow people to turn things on/off23:25
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: now with fully charged battery, the hdd _almost_ spins up!23:25
MohammadAGyou're supposed to plug in external power first23:25
MohammadAGthen plug it into the N90023:25
Venemo_N900yes I know, but I have no way to power it externally23:25
MohammadAGlcuk, I'm a gconf noob, except if it's in Qt :p23:25
MohammadAGthen it won't work23:25
MohammadAGthe N900 can't power up an HDD23:25
Venemo_N900yes, but it almost works :P23:26
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MohammadAGand my DVD drive starts spinning then spits the disc out :p23:26
mikki-kunVenemo_N900: hm, would SSDs work via h-e-n?23:26
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BCMMmikki-kun: what exactly is a USB flash drive?23:26
MohammadAGSSDs would work23:26
MohammadAGthey're like a big flash anyway23:27
BCMMisn't a USB stick just a small, cheap SSD powered by the USB?23:27
lcukonly if the interface card used stays under the current draw23:27
mikki-kunBCMM: i know what a flash-drive is, but i didn't recall anymore how much more and HDD needs compared to an SSD :)23:27
MohammadAGand an SSD is an expensive, SSD, powered by... SATA23:27
MohammadAGHDDs spin, SSDs don't23:27
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: other question: why doesn't mouse clicks work?23:28
BCMMUSB HDDs typically have a mains adapto23:28
mikki-kunMohammadAG: i can show you also spinning SSDs =p23:28
MohammadAGthey do23:28
BCMM(if they're just an enclosure for a standard desktop or laptop hard drive, that is - the ipod classic was a USB-powered hard drive)23:28
Venemo_N900BCMM: my main problem is, I haven't got a means to connect the power trunk of the Y-cable to a power source23:29
mikki-kunmaybe those 1.8" drives could be made to spin up23:29
BCMMand my ipod classic worked fine with H-E-N,23:29
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: the mouse movements are weirdly regnized, but clicks not at all. that's with my usb mouse23:30
mecegrr argh! Why is my qml wrapper so much slower than qmlviewer?23:30
mikki-kunBCMM: :) thanks for the ino :)23:30
MohammadAGmece, pure Qt ftw23:30
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, hmm23:30
MohammadAGI have bt-hid-scripts and mice work fine23:30
mecewell it's the pure qt bit that makes it slow...23:31
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: mhm23:31
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MohammadAGmece, pure Qt on its own ftw23:31
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: and the mouse moves very weirdly23:33
MohammadAGyeah, that's normal, you need a patched driver23:33
MohammadAGwhich bt-hid-scripts has afaik23:33
MohammadAGNokia tried hard to cripple the SW side of hostmode :P23:34
Venemo_N900I installed it23:34
Venemo_N900maybe a reboot is required?23:34
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: oh, and my hub also doesn't work okay23:35
MohammadAGoh, you didn't reboot?23:35
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Venemo_N900well, all the linux people say, rebooting is unnecessary23:36
Venemo_N900I'll reboot.23:36
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MohammadAGWe are maemo23:37
* MohammadAG giggles23:37
kerioI AM THE CONTENT23:37
kerioI AM THE MEDIUM23:37
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BCMMlinux doesn't typically require rebooting. however, sometimes hardware does...23:38
jacekowskiwindows doesn't typically require rebooting. however, sometimes hardware does...23:39
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Gyjfwindows *does* require reboots23:41
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: it works!!!23:41
Venemo_N900Gyjf: linux too.23:41
Venemo_N900Gyjf: those who say otherwise lie23:41
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MohammadAGkerio, loved that ad23:41
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, :)23:41
jacekowskiGyjf: my laptop has over 100 days uptime23:41
jacekowskiGyjf: and has windows 7 running over it23:41
MohammadAGkerio, though I recall most ads said open, not 47% open :P23:42
jacekowskion it*23:42
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MohammadAGthough I have to say, being with this community was enjoyable23:42
MohammadAGhopefully, MeeGo won't kill that23:42
MohammadAGalso, is it me that only thinks tmo > meego's forums design wise?23:43
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: why do you say "was"? are you leaving us: :(23:43
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mikki-kunMohammadAG: why even bother looking over there? i kind of think meego will be like android :/23:43
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MohammadAGyes, I'm joining the Motorola Startac community23:44
MohammadAGdeveloping for one-lined monochrome devices ftw23:44
MohammadAGmikki-kun, iAndroid actually, a merge of both23:44
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: any extra info about hostmode+hubs?23:44
trip0MohammadAG, is leaving the community?23:45
Venemo_N900hey, meego is nice23:45
mikki-kunMohammadAG: :((((23:45
Venemo_N900handset ux sux.23:45
wmaronehandset ux is meant for handsets23:46
MohammadAGI'm just kidding lol23:46
MohammadAGit still sucks :p23:46
wmaroneI like smoku's idea of porting hildon to meego23:46
wmaroneseeing as how there's no actual reference tablet ux23:46
MohammadAGwe all do23:46
mikki-kunwell, but meego will keep the noobs out of our territory :)23:46
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: I realized that I have here my roommate's externally powered HDD!! :D23:47
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MohammadAGthat would work23:47
mikki-kunVenemo_N900: get a non-powered one and try it with the n900 all alone23:47
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: works!23:47
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: read back. i already did.23:48
mikki-kunohhhh, then why did you say "externally powered HDD"?23:48
mikki-kunthat one confuses me now23:48
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: so. I have _my roommate's_ externally powered one, which I found 5 minutes ago23:49
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: and my own, which is not externally powered23:49
mikki-kunahhhh, ok ^^23:49
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: you get it?23:49
mikki-kunso you tried on two :)23:49
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Venemo_N900the non-externally powered one almost works, but can't spin up. :(23:50
mikki-kunyou are trying a 2.5" i assume23:50
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Venemo_N900mikki-kun: correct.23:52
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: the externally powered one is 3.5" in an enclosure which has an AC adapter23:52
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: is it possible that this bt mouse package messed up something with x input?23:53
mikki-kunhm, BCMM said he was able to power his ipod classic (1.8" hdd)23:53
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: oh, yeah. I lost my remapped kblayout23:53
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, why?23:54
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: well I said almost23:54
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MohammadAGseriously, trying an HDD is a lost cause23:54
BCMMi thought the n900 was able to power pretty much anything that conforms to USB specs?23:54
* MohammadAG continues on h-e-n powered missile launcher23:54
Venemo_N900nah. tomorrow I'll get me an usb-to-vga too.23:54
MohammadAG5V @ 200mA23:55
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BCMMi mean, the ipod charges from a PC, so presumably draws the maximum permitted current23:55
MohammadAGnormal ports are 500mA I think23:55
MohammadAGyes, but the N900 can't supply more than 200mA23:55
mikki-kunhm, aren't there even low-power 2.5" hdds which are extra slow only at like 4500 rpm?23:55
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BCMMMohammadAG: you're porting a driver for one of those USB missile launchers?23:55
BCMMMohammadAG: huh, so why didn't the ipod cause problems?23:55
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: this is not one of those23:55
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MohammadAGno, I'm making my own, nuclear missiles and all23:56
BCMMi think it was pretty much flat, but i plugged it in and read files from it just fine23:56
mikki-kunVenemo_N900: i am just saying :) those might work23:56
* MohammadAG waits for government to read logs23:56
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: :)23:56
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BCMMMohammadAG: going for the record for connecting "peripherals" that are larger than the device?23:56
MohammadAGnah, I already did that23:56
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: hm. the israelian government already knows that the palestinans are making missiles against them :P23:57
mikki-kunit's fun how much we can do with the n900 due to some seriously intelligent hackers ;)23:57
BCMM(they need to make a USB version of those FireWire-based fighter jets)23:57
Venemo_N900mikki-kun: agreed :)23:57
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mikki-kunand it makes me laugh at those iphone users when i can show them the bling-bling mohammad&co give us :>23:58
Venemo_N900hehe :23:58
mikki-kuncan android users even switch themes? Ö.ö23:58
mikki-kunfrom what i see the can only change their wallpaper23:59
Venemo_N900who knows?23:59
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Venemo_N900android is disgusting23:59
BCMMpresumably it is possible, if not easy, since there are hardware manufacturers who extensively mess about with the android UI23:59
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BCMMmaybe they have source for more than users do, though23:59
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