IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-01-12

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Gyjfhave anyone managed to get ettercap-ng to work?00:22
Gyjfit says command not found via terminal00:23
Gyjfas root ofc00:23
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piggzMohammadAG: ok, fixed by running dh_make outside of sb to ensure the files are correct00:30
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blue_ledany chance to find debug symbols @ bme_RX-51 ?01:11
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alteregoblue_led: nope :P01:20
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blue_ledstart to construct one. i ask because i don't want to invent "hot water".01:23
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alteregoblue_led: eh? construct debugging symbols?01:32
alteregobme is a closed binary01:32
alteregoWhat are you actually trying to do?01:32
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nox-maybe it could be loaded into ida?01:33
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jacekowskiit can be loaded into ida01:35
jonwilWhat could be loaded into IDA?01:35
jacekowskibut symbols are not there01:35
jacekowskiblue_led: what are you trying to achieve01:35
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jonwilAre there any kernel options I should enable to get the most out of my N900 on linux? (or any kernel options that will help with development for it)?01:48
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alteregojonwil: depends what you're developing.01:50
jonwiljust general software01:51
alteregoIf you're developing something that requires an absent kernel module then yes.01:51
jonwilI dont mean the kernel on the N900, I mean the kernel on my desktop01:51
jonwili.e. things to turn on so I can talk to the N90001:51
alteregoWhy would that do anything?01:51
alteregoWell, usb networking is basically all you really need.01:51
alteregoAnd if you're using a relatively new distro you should be fine out-of-the-box.01:52
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jonwilwell its a recent Gentoo build01:52
alteregoGod knows then :P01:53
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MrBawbpahartik: did you install pand from a package or build it yourself?01:54
jonwilwhich USB networking option do I need?01:55
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pahartikMrBawb: Maemo does not seem to have "pand" but newer BlueZ implementation of PAN01:57
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alteregojonwil: just plug the N900 in to your computer, select pc suite mode and see if a new usb0 ethernet device shows up in ifconfig02:00
MrBawbpahartik: oh, so that pand command was on your non-maemo machine?02:00
ieatlintpand is deprecated02:01
alteregoOr, you can use wifi, and not worry about usb networking.02:01
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alteregoieatlint: got your present by the way :)02:01
MrBawbieatlint: what's the replacement for it?02:01
pahartikMrBawb: And on workstation I have used various versions of "pand" provided by Debian for PowerPC02:01
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ieatlintgood stuff.. pretty quick for $3 in postage :)02:01
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alteregoieatlint: yeah, thanks, I tested your app too, worked perfectly using my visa card, I'll try some more stuff when I have the opportunity.02:02
jacekowskisome credit card scams going around?02:03
ieatlintMrBawb: i don't recall the daemon name, but the entire system was revamped with bluez 3.002:03
alteregojacekowski: no, nothing like that :P02:03
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alteregoieatlint, MrBawb it's not a seperate daemon anymore, I believe it's a configurable module.02:04
alteregoAt least, you just need to edit you conf file to enable it.02:04
ieatlintwell, maybe, did you actually verify my app doesn't send me your cc #? :P02:04
alteregoieatlint: actually yes :P02:05
alteregoTurned off net and checked the source :D02:05
ieatlintgood :)02:05
alteregoNo offence, but if you're not cautious :D02:06
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jacekowskiwhat are you talking about02:06
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alteregoieatlint: give jacekowski that link02:06
alteregoI don't have it off hand02:06
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alteregojacekowski: it's a magnetic stripe reader that interfaces via the microphone input02:07
ieatlintyes, sorry, am slightly distracted for a sec as gf is bitching at me over IM :P02:08
jacekowskialterego: all tracks?02:08
alteregojacekowski: there's a company in the US that developed a card payment solution terminal for mobile phones.02:08
jacekowskiyeah i remember that02:08
jacekowskior something like that02:08
alteregojacekowski: No, I think it's just one.02:08
alteregoMight be two,02:08
alteregoieatlint: knows more :D02:08
ieatlintsquare is the company02:09
ieatlinti steal their dongle02:09
ieatlintthe code is 100% my own02:09
jonwilCan you decode barcodes with a N900?02:09
alteregojonwil: yes02:09
ieatlintbut you can make your own dongle02:09
alteregojonwil: check mbarcode in extras02:09
ieatlintthe application can read any track02:09
ieatlintthe dongle i've given alterego can only read track 2 as it is (but can be easily modified to read track 1 as well)02:09
ieatlintmono audio input == only one track can be read at a time02:10
alteregoAh yes, didn't think about that :D02:10
alteregoDoes it actually generate stereo output?02:10
ieatlintthe n900 is only able to do mono i'm told02:11
alteregoieatlint: yes, I know, but the dongle generates two channels?02:11
ieatlintbut the code itself is not platform specific02:11
ieatlintno, the dongle is mono, designed for mobile phones which are almost exclusively mono02:11
alteregoYes, right, just checking.02:12
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ieatlintbut it is very much so possible to create an audio dongle that produces stereo output, reading two tracks simultaneously02:12
alteregoI ran your app on my laptop too btw :D02:12
ieatlintmay or may not work on laptop :P02:13
ieatlintit's hardware dependent02:13
ieatlintthe dongle is designed to work with audio jacks for headsets (mono input, stereo output)02:13
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ieatlintit won't work with a stereo audio input on a computer in my experience... some laptops do have headset jacks (my thinkpad does, and some macbook pros do i know)02:14
ieatlintof course, it's a pinout issue... would be easy to change in theory02:14
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jacekowskiieatlint: what about sticking small uC in there and decoding everything02:15
jacekowskiand then transmitting it via microphone02:16
ieatlintwould require i design my own hardware02:16
ieatlintand would be much more difficult for others to duplicate than a cassette tape head + resistor02:17
jacekowskiwhat are you waiting for02:17
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ieatlint(that's all the dongle that reads it is -- cassette tape head and a resistor to prevent feedback that would erase the magstripe)02:17
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jacekowskiit would be nice to implement evm02:18
SpeedEvilITWM capacitor02:18
jacekowskigood night02:19
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ieatlintalterego: if your id card has a magstripe on it, i'll likely harass you to give me the specs on it (nothing identifying, just the format so i can add support to decode it)02:20
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alteregoieatlint: I'll be happy to help, things like store cards and stuff would be cool.02:23
ieatlintyeah, i have some ideas on how i can better format the page that shows unknown data02:25
alteregoieatlint: I was thinking of implementing your code as a daemon which starts when it detects the headset and if it picks up a valid magnetic strip, starts up a finance app and displays how much it thinks is left in your account :)02:25
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ieatlintwould be easy in theory02:26
alteregoYeah, not sure how practical though ;)02:26
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ieatlintyeah, i wasn't going to comment on that :P02:26
alteregoBut I'm brainstorming a mobile finance app at the moment so thought it'd be interesting.02:26
amtiWhat's the best email-client with caledar? ms exchange or google caledar arent available.02:27
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alteregoamti: we don't have one, we have a calendar and we have an email client.02:27
ieatlintwell, the code that's out is all GPL02:27
ieatlintand i could be open to other licensing depending on the circumstances02:28
amtialterego, just talking globally - because you can install debian-packages to n900, I could sync that calendar from that to my phone02:28
amtiglobally is wrong term, but hopefully you got what I meant you to got :P02:28
amtiatm I have calendar and I want to sync another calendar to my n900 calendar. I want to sync it because managing the calendar is much easier with pc and via some accessibble software.02:29
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alteregoieatlint: neah, I wouldn't use your code for personal gain and there isn't really any practical use for it except what square intended.02:39
alteregoThat and curiosity.02:39
ieatlinti have one in mind02:39
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alteregoHeh, cool. :)02:51
* RST38h moos02:51
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eichiwhich free application is the best for car, cycling and walking routing on n90002:52
SpeedEvildunno if sygic does car routing at all.02:53
eichiwith openstreetmap data02:53
SpeedEvilwalking routing02:53
eichiits not free at all?02:53
SpeedEvilno - sygic isn't free02:53
SpeedEvilwell - it's free as in guantanamo.02:54
eichii want a open source one with osm data02:54
eichii know, navit is usable, but not very good ui02:54
SpeedEvilThe data is good where you are?02:55
eichiand maemo mapper allways use this damn tiling, doenst it?02:55
eichiSpeedEvil: yea, perfect02:55
SpeedEvilyou want vector?02:55
SpeedEvilWhere are you - .de?02:55
eichitübingen, germany02:55
eichiall around here, osm is very nice02:56
SpeedEvilOSM seems to be an obsession with some in .de02:56
SpeedEvil(not that that's a bad thing)02:56
nomisa friend has run out of stuff to map in his hometown. He now maps all the fireplugs.02:56
eichi;) yeah, i did more then 500kms of streets and ways in osm in my lifetime ;=)02:57
nomis(they by default don't show up in the map, but the data is there...  :)02:57
SpeedEvilOh - you mean street-water-fire?02:57
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nomisthe stuff the fire brigade connects their hoses to.02:58
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eichi thats one of the cites i did02:58
eichi and this too - parents home02:59
SpeedEvilSurvey, or armchair?02:59
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SpeedEvilI've been mapping some with my n900.03:01
jonwilMaybe I should join open street map and start mapping objects in my area (or writing code to get a usable nav app on the N900 with support for Australia)03:01
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blackthornemapping networks?03:01
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blackthorneis there dropbos for n900?03:02
eichi thats an article about me, explaining openstreetmap in an computer magazine ;P03:02
eichibut its german, sorry03:03
jonwilCan you read GPS coordinates in your own N900 software and how hard is it to convert those coordinates to OpenStreetMap coordinates?03:03
SpeedEviljonwil: EAsy.03:03
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SpeedEviljonwil: there is an OK mobile editor.03:03
eichijonwil: you record your gps data and then you open an editor, to "paint" the roads and tag them as highway etc. its very funny experience03:03
SpeedEvilpotlatch sort-a-works03:03
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SpeedEvilThe existing camera app geotags the photos.03:04
SpeedEvilThough suckily03:04
eichiand osm2go is live-mapping. mans you can paint roads while you waling on them03:04
povbotBug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places)03:04
SpeedEvilI plan on adding a compass to my n900, to aid mapping.03:04
jonwilOne thing I want to look at writing is an app for reading Google Transit Feed data and using it on the N90003:05
blackthornewhat about dropbox on N900?03:05
SpeedEvilCheck the TOS03:05
SpeedEviljonwil: you probably can't.03:05
jonwilThe specs for the Google Transit data is open03:05
dotblankWjhats google tranist?03:06
SpeedEvilterms and conditions for much google data are quite restrictive.03:06
jonwiland many transport operators (including my local one) provide Google Transit Feed data files for people to use03:06
SpeedEvilFor example, you cannot legally cache google-maps tiles.03:06
jonwilThe license on the files my operator provides is fairly liberal03:06
* SpeedEvil wishes his local bus operator provided live data.03:07
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SpeedEvilI have problems with getting stupidly tired when out.03:07
SpeedEvilAnd getting on the wrong bus.03:07
SpeedEvilThis is ... not fun.03:07
jonwilGoogle Transit is a system where public transit operators provide data to Google (and optionally to the general public for use in other apps) that define routes, stops etc03:07
jonwilaha, Google renamed the spec to "General Transit Feed Specification"03:08
jonwilI intend to play with the "General Transit Feed Specification" data provided by my local operator03:08
SpeedEvilSome of the stops info has been imported into OSM03:09
SpeedEvilIn some cases03:09
blackthornewhat about dropbox on N900?03:09
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jonwilThe first thing I want is something that lets me input a stop number and tells me what buses are due next (so I dont have to waste a phone call calling up the information line to find it out)03:10
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SpeedEvil blackthorne03:13
SpeedEvilI don't know if that's got a UI though03:14
SpeedEvilor if it's a backend03:14
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jonwilhmmm, the license for this data is surprisingly sane. It just says "dont use our trademarks without permission", "if you use our data you must tell people where you got the data from" and  "no warranty applies to this data"03:15
SpeedEviljonwil: nice03:15
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ebzzryHi! If I want to package an existing Debian package for ARM, where do I start?03:18
jonwilfinally found a set of 4 wallpapers for my N900 that I like :)03:18
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jonwilnext thing I need to find for my N900 is something to protect it so it wont be damaged03:19
SpeedEviljonwil: I recommend a were-tiger.03:19
SpeedEviljonwil: Or a brigade of amazons.03:19
jonwilI was thinking more of a leather case :P03:19
jonwilwell not necessarily leather03:19
SpeedEvilAlternatively, I got a cheap crap case from ebay that works well.03:19
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SpeedEvilthough mine were all clear03:21
dotblankebzzry, well I would modify the changes file and make sure it gets updated to the right repo.. I would also use apt-get source to get the package03:21
* timeless_mbp curses03:22
timeless_mbpmy stupid lenovo ideapad decided to go to sleep in the middle of an scp03:22
jonwilshould I be worried about fingerprints on the N900 touchscreen?03:22
dotblanktimeless_mbp, :(03:22
jonwilWhat should I use to keep the screen clean?03:22
SpeedEviljonwil: a t-shirt03:22
timeless_mbpjonwil: worry about scratches03:22
timeless_mbpfingerprints aren't a problem03:22
SpeedEviljonwil: personally, I got a pack of 10 cheap protectors03:22
ebzzrydotblank: Thanks, and with regards to written documentation, where should I begin?03:22
* timeless_mbp sighs03:23
SpeedEviljonwil: I've used a couple - for scratches that would have utterly destroyed the screen03:23
timeless_mbpthis stupid transfer should have finished by now03:23
* timeless_mbp curses insane systems03:23
RST38halterego: More data on that crash03:23
dotblankebzzry, I would just basic packaging skills then I would learn how to do maemo packaging03:23
dotblankubuntu uploads video tutorials of debian packaging03:23
jonwilI will have to hunt around to see if I can find some somewhere reasonably local to me (ordering from03:23
ebzzrydotblank: OK03:23
jonwilfrom Europe is too expensive)03:24
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RST38halterego: I have found that if you are not touching the device, Columbus appears to work. It crashes when you take the device and start rotating it. The compass starts rotating wildly left and right, then the application crashes03:24
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SpeedEviljonwil: there are global sellers that ship that locally to you.03:24
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RST38halterego: From the lookof it, it may be dividing by 0 at some point03:25
jonwilwell I have seen local shops that have 1000s of mobile phone covers and cases for all different models so I will check to see if any of em have one for a N90003:25
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SpeedEviljonwil: that works too.03:26
SpeedEviljonwil: I'd strongly recommend a protector, personally.03:26
SpeedEvilscreen protector03:27
jonwilI definatly intend to acquire a screen protector as soon as I can find something suitable03:27
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alteregoRST38h: thanks for the info, I'll look into it in the morning. :)03:27
RST38halterego: btw, I am still failing to understand WHAT the compass shows03:28
SpeedEvil I got03:28
SpeedEvilRST38h: It's the best estimate of the course of your n90003:28
RST38halterego: it seems to jump 180o in a second or so03:28
alteregoRST38h: your heading03:28
SpeedEvilRST38h: walk forward a bit03:28
RST38hheading to WHAT?03:28
alteregoIf you're not moving the gps error :)03:28
RST38hah, ok03:28
SpeedEvilRST38h: oldpos-newpos03:29
RST38hSoooo... it looks like that may be rhe crash reason03:29
alteregoI'll be adding a bit of intelligence into it before 1.003:29
RST38hI am rotating the device in my hands, but never walking with it, so it provides for some realy wild heading display03:29
RST38hAnd THAT may crash it03:29
alteregoWell, that shouldn't cause a crash, but we'll see.03:29
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alteregoYeah, the landscape portrait switching may be showing an underlying issue.03:30
alteregoBut my accel seems to have stopped working atm so I can't test it.03:30
RST38hbtw, can you use accelerator to improve heading display? =)03:31
RST38hJust rotated device into portrait mode, 5 seconds and...oops. Crashed.03:31
SpeedEvilRST38h: basically not03:31
alteregoRST38h: no, but I can use it to detect real movement.03:31
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SpeedEvilRST38h: without other knowledge 'n900 is clamped into a vehicle' - the accel gives no orientation info03:32
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alteregoWell, real acceleration, which may help in ascertaining whether I should display a heading or not.03:32
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SpeedEvilRST38h: As you can spin the n900 around the gravity axis without causing any accel at all03:32
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RST38halterego: another small suggestion - remove the word "Graph" from all the graph legends03:33
RST38halterego: It is kinda clear that they are graphs :)03:33
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alteregoRST38h: well, maybe not to some :P03:34
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alteregoBut yeah, I just thought it looked cool ^_^03:35
RST38halterego: AFAIK, it will look like "Aha! This translation string is missing!" to most developers03:35
alteregoLike the rest of the UI ;)03:36
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alteregoThere are no translations currently, though I will be supporting that in my v2 roadmap03:36
RST38hbtw, have you seen Nokia's own Sports Tracker?03:37
alteregoWell, I may have seen some shots of it a while ago in labs03:38
RST38hHas similar functionality to Columbus. Pretty damn decent for a Symbian app.03:42
RST38hYou may want to steal a few features / screen layouts from it =)03:42
alteregoHeh, maybe.03:43
dotblankwhat is arm113603:43
alteregootoh, I want to finish it at somepoint so I can do other apps :P03:43
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nox-hm is it normal that iwconfig says `security mode:open' even tho im using wpa2?03:57
alteregonox-: probably04:00
nox-hm ok04:00
nox-as long as its not a security hole... :)04:01
alteregoThink it depends on a few driver factors04:01
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alteregoSo it's not suprising at least :)04:01
nox-wpa2 with a long enough pw should still be safe, right?04:02
SpeedEvillong, random04:02
SpeedEvilisn't a good phrase forex04:02
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* nox- did something like dd bs=256 count=1 </dev/random|(LANG=C tr -dc '[:graph:]')04:03
SpeedEvilthat's prolly OK.04:05
nox-good :)04:05
chxthere was a good article about how three random english word is safer than various random alphanumeric characters04:06
BCMMhow OT is t-mobile uk's upcoming policy change? (it was the best way of getting an n900 in hte UK until recently)04:06
SpeedEvilquite on topic04:06
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BCMMi'm wondering if anyone here has successfully got out of the contract early, with their n900, over this04:06
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SpeedEvilBCMM: The 20 quid for 6 months PAYG deal is quite reasonable, even at 500M (of video) per month04:07
nox-chx, hm link? :)04:07
alteregoBCMM: lots when it happened to vodafone customers last year.04:08
BCMMSpeedEvil: it's 500MB of anything, per month04:08
BCMMalterego: yeah, but t-mobile isn't vodafone04:08
alteregoBCMM: look at the t.m.o thread :)04:08
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SpeedEvilBCMM: yes - 500M, but after 500M, streaming, and 'large files' break04:08
BCMMi know that, legally, i can get out, but in practise i need to convince t-mob of that, since i'm not going to hire a lawyer04:08
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alteregoBCMM: ofcom defines the rules, if your bill increases by more than 5 percent due to a policy change you can cancel.04:08
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SpeedEvilSo your bill may not increase04:09
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BCMMalterego: huh, awkward. it won't increase the bill, they'll just stop providing a service while still charging the same...04:09
alteregoSpeedEvil: indeed,04:09
SpeedEviljust you won't be able to stream after the 10th of the month or whatever04:09
chxnox-: shoudl be somewhere
chxnox-: shoudl be somewhere here04:09
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chxnox-: told you04:09
alteregoBCMM: good point, not entirely sure then I'd have to look at the T&C04:10
chxtwitter is awesome when crossed with packratius.04:10
BCMMSpeedEvil: and i'm not sure the £20 a month thing i'm in is a good deal - this contract is effectively still paying for hte n90004:10
SpeedEvilBCMM: yeah - 20/6 mo - internet booster for PAYG04:10
chxi tweet anything interesting i read and if i need a link later, it's on delcious. siiiiiimple.04:10
SpeedEvilBCMM: that's all ou pay, if you make no calls/text04:11
BCMMif i could get out of it, i could have a pretty similar contract, sim-only, with three, for £10 a month04:11
BCMMand get my 1GB of data back...04:11
BCMM"Sorry, but My T-Mobile is offline at the moment."04:11
* lucent perks up at mention of T-Mobile04:11
SpeedEvilthat's annoying.04:12
BCMMsome kinda parable there, about not actually investing in infrastructure to support extremely predictable demand04:12
SpeedEvil3 here is not of use, as they do not own 900/800MHz spectrum, so don't fall back on 2G04:12
SpeedEvilWhich is useless where I am04:12
BCMMi'm amazed i've seen this story in about three places, and they haven't contacted me about it yet... they're clearly being DDOS'ed by customers trying to find stuff out04:12
BCMMSpeedEvil: 3 has no 2G network at all?04:13
lucentwhat is "3" a reference to, hm04:13
BCMMlucent: the mobile phone network called "3" (just to confuse people)04:14
BCMMi think they started out when 3g was new and shiny, causing a bit of confusion04:14
lucentbloody hell04:14
alteregoIt's Chinese04:14
lucentthanks for clearing that up BCMM04:14
BCMM(same kinda confusion the bloody iPhone 3G causes)04:14
chx3 is *Chiense* ? wth? I thought they are British.04:14
chx  i see04:15
lucentI'm on a T-Mobile USA plan, um, "Even More 500" post-paid with a $10/mo addon for unlimited Internet04:15
lucentit's a $45.66/mo bill USD after taxes04:15
lucentanyone suggest how I could get away with it for cheaper?04:16
SpeedEvilBCMM: As I understand it, no.04:16
SpeedEvilBCMM: they used to use Oranges network for fallback - but I guess the Orange/t-mobile deal screwed that up04:17
BCMMSpeedEvil: oh, i was just about to mention the orange thing (saw it in the wiki article)04:17
BCMMyeah, it's annoying that t-mob does this just when i was thinking it was looking pretty good because of the Orange roaming thing04:17
wmaronelucent: not anymore, since even t-mobile just changed up their unlimited plan and eliminated the $10/mo version04:18
nox-chx, ah this three english words recommendation assumes the cracker can only test 100 passwords per seconds...04:18
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chxnox-: one can presume that does not matter -- the relative speedup would be roughly equivalent.04:19
nox-yeah but for wifi security youd need more that three words obviously04:19
BCMMSpeedEvil: sure they don't have a 2g partner any more?04:19
lucentwmarone: oh, stay with it, then?04:20
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nox-(or just stick do random strings, im not going to type them in here anyway, thats what i have wired/usb network for)04:20
lucentspeaking of wireless, and maemo, sometimes I have to reboot to get a gprs connection to work04:21
lucentanyone else experience that?04:21
wmaroneI had that a couple times04:22
wmaroneusually if I hop on wifi for a while04:22
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lucentoh, mine happens when I'm on a bus, between coverage zones04:22
BCMMlucent: are you sure it has to be a reboot? have you tried going into flight mode and back?04:22
wmaronein and out of flight mode doesn't fix it, taking phonet up and down doesn't fix it04:23
lucentflight mode and back?   yes, sometimes that helps, but also I've had it where for several days no matter which coverage zone I was in, it could make and receive calls but GPRS data would not connect04:23
lucentreboot and it worked instantly04:23
wmaronelucent: does the GPRS connection disappear entirely from the connections list as well?04:23
lucentwmarone: negative, it keeps retrying, and I could (and did) retry manually from the connections list04:24
lucentI'd like to know if there is some kind of logging or what I can run to get it "in the act" next time this happens04:24
wmaronemine's worse then04:24
nox-lucent, here when 3g is down (happened twice for several days each) i have to force gsm or it would keep disconnecting and connecting again probably trying to connect to 3g in vain...04:27
BCMM "Stream music and videos using services like YouTube and Spotify on compatible phones." - 3 officially "gets" the internet more than t-mob.04:27
lucentoh! good point, hey I do not have 3G service here anywhere, it always says "2.5G"04:27
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lucentmy 3G is turned off in settings,04:28
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timeless_mbpoh right04:29
timeless_mbpbefore traveling, do try to install Maps04:29
timeless_mbpanyone ever try using Ovi Suite to download maps?04:29
* timeless_mbp has 20mins to do that04:29
* lucent admits affirmatively04:29
lucentit was a run-around, never worked correctly04:29
lucentnot to say it can't work, I just tried and then decided reflash was easier04:30
SpeedEvilBCMM_: fairly sure04:33
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timeless_mbpnox-: oh right04:38
* timeless_mbp wonders how well it deals w/ upgraded datasets04:40
nox-heh i wondered about that too...04:40
lucentopinion time, is Ovi Maps "good enough" ?04:40
nox-i also like cloudgps (if you dont need routing)04:41
timeless_mbpsorry, i have to get a ride to the airport, no time to chat04:41
timeless_mbplucent: good enough for *what*?04:41
timeless_mbpi'm about to go on international roaming for over a week04:42
lucentfor the casual user, traveling and needs a map04:42
timeless_mbpnormally i'd use google maps while in europe04:42
timeless_mbpbut California is rather large (even LA is large)04:43
lucentnew to me, thanks for the hint about google maps mobile04:44
lucentis it using Geo Location plugin?04:44
timeless_mbptap the little round dot near zoom04:45
timeless_mbpyou have to give it permission (once)04:45
timeless_mbpif you're using 1.3 it isn't a plugin, it's an integrated feature of the browser04:45
timeless_mbp(it used to be an extension)04:45
lucentoh, got it.  doesn't work here though :/   I'm thinking how do I get it to ask me, if I accidentally deny it04:46
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lucentMicroB 3.6 says "about:"04:46
lucentdon't mind me!  enjoy your trip04:47
timeless_mbpoh right, missing international flights ==BAD BAD BAD04:47
nox-yeah enjoy timeless_mbp :)04:47
timeless_mbpthanks all04:47
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* SpeedEvil missed a bus yesterday, it wasn't fun.04:53
SpeedEvilNot an international flying bus though.04:53
lucentsensing a Harry Potter reference in this one04:55
lucentI have a pretty nice solar panel, how to regulate the voltage from it though04:56
lucentwant to charge USB devices (N900) on the go04:56
lucentnominal I think is 21V at 3.0A04:57
SpeedEvilA SMPS of some form.04:58
SpeedEvilYou want a SMPS that can take the peak unloaded voltage - which would be probably 32V or something, and make it 5V@1A or so.04:59
SpeedEvilCan you work a soldering iron?04:59
lucentah, yes05:00
lucentneed to research, what is "SMPS"05:00
SpeedEvilSwitch Mode Power Supply05:00
* MohammadAG screwed with his physics teacher once and connected a LED to his N900's usb port05:01
lucentthat's a really neat idea you've got05:01
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: ?05:01
SpeedEvillucent: where are you in the world?05:02
MohammadAGpowered a LED from the N900's USB05:02
MohammadAGinstead of getting it powered throgh some similar power supply05:02
lucentSpeedEvil: USA located.  I've got a really nice portable solar panel, and currently an AGM lead acid battery ... not very portable05:02
SpeedEvillucent: If you leave the battery in circuit, it's easy.05:03
lucentyeah that's true.  If I want to backpack with this setup though, that AGM weighs 26lbs05:03
lucentnot gonna happen!   what do you think?   LiPo ?05:03
* nox- doubts youd need that big a solar panel anyway to charge a phone05:04
nox-(unless you need it for other stuff too :)05:04
SpeedEvil - looks reasonable05:05
lucentvery true nox- and I'm not "in need" of a solar panel, it's like I could have a plain old rotary telephone but naw, I've got a N900. What's up? :)05:05
SpeedEvil31V in may be a bit low though05:05
lucentSpeedEvil: gotta find spec sheet, it's a Global Solar P3 62W05:06
lucentoh wow, $10.20 usd not outrageous, add a case... hmm05:06
SpeedEvil ah - that's 36V - probably more comfortable05:06
SpeedEvilI would add a 1.5A quick-blow fuse.05:07
lucentSpeedEvil: drifting off topic!  you have experience with "anderson powerpole" connectors?05:07
lucentthanks for the help05:10
SpeedEvilMay be of use.05:10
ds3linear -> SMPS or a huge battery to boil off stuff05:11
SpeedEvilthe above module is a really good fit actually05:12
lucentthink I will still need a battery, though.05:12
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SpeedEvilyou need a battery charger of some form05:12
lucentPanel spec sheet says Open Circuit Voltage 28VDC @ 4.2A05:12
lucenterr.. sorry 4.2A is short circuit current05:12
SpeedEvilopen circuit voltage is at 0 current05:12
ds3or get a charge controller05:12
SpeedEvilanyway - ##electronics05:13
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MohammadAGsignal sender=:1.12 -> dest=(null destination) serial=5746 path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_1d6b_2_musb_hdrc; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=PropertyModified05:27
MohammadAGis sent over dbus when a charger is connected05:27
MohammadAGbme is off05:27
MohammadAGmight be useful, so i'll drop that here05:28
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ieatlintwhat's the safe way to install uboot on the n900 with the power kernel?06:05
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oscilliki'm having some MAJOR trouble trying to reflash my N90006:07
oscillikcan anyone help?06:07
FauxFauxoscillik: Not without any details FUUUUUUUUUU.06:08
SpeedEvilwhat problems06:08
infobotsomebody said flashing was
oscillikfollowed the steps on the wiki to the letter for reflashing the eMMC first and then the FIASCO image06:08
FauxFauxTHEN WHAT?!  Do tell us.  The suspense is killing me.06:09
oscillikit flashes the eMMC fine, when i try flashing the FIASCO image it goes through really quick and then just ends at the commandline with "using flashing protocol Mk II"06:09
oscillikdumps me back to command prompt, and the N900 is left looking like this06:10
oscillik(trying to upload the picture)06:12
oscillikand here's a pastebin of the output i get on the terminal on my computer06:16
MohammadAGoscillik, flash FIASCO then eMMC06:17
MohammadAGI really was against changing the sequence in the wiki06:17
oscillikMohammadAG: that goes directly against what the wiki says06:17
MohammadAGsince flashing the eMMC requires a different flashing mode06:17
MohammadAGoscillik, the wiki is fucked up06:17
SpeedEvilyou've tried rebooting?06:17
MohammadAGflash FIASCO then eMMC06:17
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, he shouldn't reboot in between flashes06:17
MohammadAGignore the wiki, flash the fiasco, then flash the eMMC06:18
MohammadAGdo not use -R06:18
oscilliktrying now06:19
* MohammadAG pets ubuntu06:19
* MohammadAG hides Windows from boot selection menu06:19
oscilliki think that's worked now, thanks MohammadAG06:22
oscillikwas having a panic attack06:22
MohammadAGdon't worry, you can't brick the N90006:22
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* oscillik uses Crunchbang Linux on his laptop06:28
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RobbieThe1st...Well, -this- is interesting. One of my disks apparently has a bad block at LBA 1250259400. Problem is, my last partition only goes to 1250258624 and the last sector I can write with DD is 1250259399 - one sector less.07:02
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ShadowJKdd stops at first error by default07:05
RobbieThe1stThing is, on -earlier- bad sectors, I was able to write zeros to it and all was fine.07:05
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RobbieThe1st(I'm assuming the HD reallocates it if needed)07:06
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RobbieThe1stHm... Maby with badblocks...07:11
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: stop telling BS and start to support your concerns with some facts! What's your concern with the new sequence? I never heard of a "different flashing mode", please elaborate. The "do not use -R - DO NOT BOOT" part is stated in the wiki at least 5 times07:16
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm not telling BS07:17
MohammadAGflashing the eMMC is not done in the same flashing mode as the rootfs07:17
MohammadAGfeel free to try it, I also failed to flash eMMC first then FIASCO07:18
DocScrutinizerso what? (even if that were true)07:18
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MohammadAGthe N900 can switch from the first flashing mode to the second, but not vice versa07:18
MohammadAGfor some reason07:19
DocScrutinizer >>[f you are flashing the N900 with the eMMC image, follow the instructions below. Also see troubleshooting section, bullet 6:"If you cannot establish..."]<<, >>When flashing the eMMC content, always flash the eMMC/VANILLA image first, and then flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image.07:23
DocScrutinizerDo not boot up the device between the two i.e do NOT use the -R parameter at the end! Rationale: on accidental booting in between the 2 flash processes, the sequence formerly suggested (rootfs first) will result in a broken system. The sequence "eMMC first, then rootfs" is checked back with Nokia affiliates and is proven to work. The former advice on was not based on any facts for the recent eMMC VANILLA image. It's07:23
DocScrutinizerfixed now and in line with this wiki]<<    >>if you don't get proper message "Image(s) flashed successfully in 27.821 s (9199 kB/s)!" after flashing the rootfs finished, please refer to bullet "If you cannot establish a connection with N900..." in troubleshooting section below.<<  ::>> Insert battery while holding "u" key. You can release the key as soon as screen turns07:23
DocScrutinizeron and shows the USB logo. Flashing shall start automatically. (after flashing has finished, remove battery ->(1.) 2.) Repeat same procedure for each image to flash (sequence: eMMC first, then rootfs). So far this procedure always worked, given your PC side has no problems.<<07:23
SpeedEvilThe above image could be useful for 'this is what your n900 will look like if you do it wrong07:25
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm just stating my experience07:28
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DocScrutinizerand telling "the wiki is wrong, don't use -R" is nonsense. in fact if oscilik had followed the wiki, he hadn't faced any problems07:33
DocScrutinizerNOLO is known to sometimes not resume properly from a flashing process. I don't think that's exactly depending on sequence of imgs that get flashed. And even if it were, the remove-battery method is more clumsy but absolutely foolproof, while the rootfs_then_eMMC method is maybe nifty and convenient but highly prone to do it wrong07:33
ArkanoiD-i think i'd prefer n9 to run maemo5, just faster. even with all that bugs unfixed. i am afraid too many things will get broken :-/07:33
DocScrutinizer(...known to sometimes not resume) guess why all the flasher examples from Nokia always had the -R, though that's actually not meant to be used unless you flash a new NOLO, according to flasher README07:35
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, dude, did you ever flash eMMC then fiasco or are you basing off assumptions?07:35
MohammadAGone would assume flashing both ways doesn't matter, but it fails from eMMC to FAISCO07:35
DocScrutinizerdude, have you never seen it failing when doing FIACO to eMMC?07:36
MohammadAGno, if done properly07:36
DocScrutinizerthat's a good one, yeah07:37
MohammadAGno seriously07:38
fralsMohammadAG: ive never seen anything done properly fail07:38
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MohammadAGfrals, :P07:38
DocScrutinizerthe fact that bullet 6. is merely virtually impossible to do anything wrong makes all debates about rootfs-first a moot exercise07:39
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pipnukjavispedro seems to never be around irc now07:51
pipnuk(good for him)07:51
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timeless_xchathello world08:18
* timeless_xchat made it to the first flight (which is probably going to depart late)08:19
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* SpeedEvil has been spending the last month missing public transport.08:21
SpeedEvilThough mostly busses in my case.08:21
SpeedEvilWell - entirely busses.08:21
timeless_xchatthat sounds awkward08:23
SpeedEvilgetting on wrong bus, etc.08:24
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Dassuis there a profile changer widget available for maemo?09:58
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crashanddiebest youtube video in a long time:
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lcukcrashanddie, bring forth The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch10:36
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pipnuknice SpeedEvil :)11:14
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JaffaMorning, all11:18
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KevinBHi dudes12:46
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KevinBDid someone eever had tthis problem when booting meego, got stuck on mtdroop ready (n of n+1) and each boot n increments12:47
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alteregoKevinB: ask in #meego-arm12:51
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MohammadAGalterego, would #ifdef ! Q_WS_MAEMO_5 work?12:57
MohammadAGaway from an IDE, fixing code using wordpad :/12:57
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mecealterego, hey12:57
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DassuMohammadAG: do  you believe that IDE is essential for bug finding and if so, why?12:58
mecealterego, is your gl enabled app "ugly" ?12:58
DassuMohammadAG: what debugger do u use and do you prefer gui over non gui?12:59
MohammadAGDassu, no, I don't12:59
MohammadAGgdb, use it over ssh most of the times, in Qt Creator other times12:59
MohammadAGis this an interview?12:59
mecealterego, my app is ugly and slow with opengl and pretty and fast without. I'm doing something wrong.12:59
meceLOL MohammadAG :D12:59
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danyhi there13:18
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danyis there still only OpenGL ES support or also to the standard OpenGL ?13:21
X-Fadedany: Only ES, standard OpenGL will never happen.13:22
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danyX-Fade, Can I ask you why?13:22
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X-Fadedany: Hardware doesn't support it.13:22
danyX-Fade, uhm damn it13:23
danyI have this error:13:23
dany/usr/include/GL/freeglut_std.h:115:20: error: GL/glu.h: No such file or directory13:23
X-FadeAll mobile hardware does ES, there is a trend of everything moving to ES as lowest.13:23
danyso are you saying that is not possible to solve it?13:23
X-Fadedany: Forget that. You need to change code.13:23
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smokudany, OpenGL API is to complicated.  simplified OpenGL ES can do the same and more, so why bother.  even desktop OpenGL is going the same route.13:24
danyX-Fade, so I have to change the code and use the ES version?13:24
chem|stieatlint: package arrived ty13:24
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danythanks guys13:25
danyah one last thing13:25
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danyif I have a program in standard OpenGL, how much is it hard to port to OpenGL ES?13:25
chem|stDocScrutinizer: will try to make it to the post office today13:26
X-Fadedany: Check that page ;)13:26
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chem|stieatlint: was there one more to ship in europe/germany as you sent 6?13:29
chem|stDocScrutinizer: 1 or 2 for you?13:30
danyI tried to install the es version but I got: Package opengles-sgx-img-common-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package.13:30
danyThis may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or13:30
danyis only available from another source13:30
danyand the same fot the other apt-get commands13:31
chem|stdany: maybe in a repo you have not setup or is not set active13:31
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chem|stlook at for details where they are in13:32
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* chem|st got struck by nvidia 32bit lightning while upgrading 64bit kernel modules13:33
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alteregochem|st: spoke to ieatlint lastnight :P13:34
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alteregoThink you may have missed him though13:34
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Chiku01does someone use "FM RDS Notify" ?13:34
alteregoI'm sure someone does ..13:34
danythe repository is this: Fremantle Nokia-binaries explicit armel .Is there any website where I can find the exact string to write in the sources.list?13:35
Chiku01does it stream music into car radio ?13:35
alteregodany: you've deleted your default catalogues?13:36
chem|stalterego: well he might not be up yet ;)13:36
danyalterego, I'm using scratchbox right now13:37
danynot the nokia13:37
sandst1dany: Accept this and you'll get the string
chem|stChiku01: music tags you mean?! and I don't know but the details tell it should do13:37
alteregodany: ah, well you need to run the nokia proprietary installer script to get the sources.list entries13:38
danysandst1, that is only for the nokia binaries.. I need another repository13:38
sandst1dany: ookay13:38
alteregoOh yeah, that too.13:38
danyalterego, I did it13:39
Chiku01chem|st, not only tags, as fm music emmitter from N90013:40
danyno one?13:42
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chem|stChiku01: th RDS notifyer does not send anything but RDS13:43
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chem|stdany: repositories are listed in the wiki...13:43
infobotrepositories are frequently old.13:43
infobotchem|st: thanks13:44
* infobot takes the cash and sucks mohammadag off13:44
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pipnuki was just commenting on the utility of women13:46
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crashanddiepipnuk, stfu13:46
pipnuki didn't write that 'clever' infobot line13:46
infobotHoogah Hoogah wah wah *takes of the box* *dances around showing of the cpu and memory* Ah yeah you likey my little HD no?13:47
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crashanddie~bj pipnuk13:47
crashanddieaww :(13:47
chem|stpipnuk: not everything sucking you off is a woman13:47
crashanddievampires, vacuums, black holes, men.13:48
crashanddiea fleshlight13:48
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alteregoI think my accel is broken :H13:50
alteregoOh, started working again.13:51
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chem|stcehteh: do you want one of those magnetic stripe readers?13:56
chem|stcehteh: would at least be a reason for a meetup some day ;)13:57
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chem|st~seen DocScrutinizer13:58
infobotdocscrutinizer is currently on #maemo (6h 25m 54s) #meego (6h 25m 54s) #openmoko (6h 25m 54s) #infobot (6h 25m 54s) #openmoko-cdevel (6h 25m 54s). Has said a total of 7 messages. Is idling for 6h 18m 11s, last said: 'the fact that bullet 6. is merely virtually impossible to do anything wrong makes all debates about rootfs-first a moot exercise'.13:58
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Chiku01is it possible as real usb pen drive ? so you put you live os image somewhere and plug on computer usb and boot on you live os image ?14:01
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chem|stChiku01: should be possible at least in "off" state14:02
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Chiku01chem|st, off sate ? you mean turn off your N900 before plug on computer usb ?14:02
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chem|stChiku01: just try... I would guess if your bios does the proper commands you will be booting of it wether off or not14:03
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chem|stthough it does not work as pendrive on my car radio as it exports to many partitions I guess (and the manual reads something about not to use mediaplayer-pen-drives)14:04
Chiku01in which folder you will install your live image ?14:04
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chem|stexternal card14:05
Chiku012 sujects different14:05
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Chiku01it doesn't any relation about pendrive and car roadio14:06
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chem|stehrm my car radio has an usb port and I was not able to use my n900 as pendrive on it14:07
Chiku01about car radio, I will test stream music later on my car14:07
MohammadAGchem|st, I'm able to do that14:08
MohammadAGnot my car, but still :p14:08
MohammadAGthough it did corrupt my partition once, stupid cars14:08
Chiku01my friend got one car radio with usb port too, I should try tu plug on it and see if there is any folder14:08
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danyI didn't find them in wikipedia.. I find only the standard repositories14:08
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chem|stMohammadAG: I was scared of that and stopped trying, somehow it started to export "something" without mounting it properly from then on, so in windows it looks like 2 not reachable drives14:09
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chem|stdany: not wiki.maemo.org14:09
MohammadAGchem|st, plugging in the N900 always does that till you select mass storage mode14:09
chem|stMohammadAG: even with pc suite mode?14:10
MohammadAGyes, on windows at least14:10
MohammadAGlinux is fine14:10
chem|stwel selected ms-mode with busy MyDocs does export a drive as well14:10
chem|stgot no linux at my office :(14:11
Chiku01mydocs is fat partition ?14:11
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chem|stMohammadAG: the export and drive enumeration looked random to me as sometimes it happens and sometimes not (win)14:12
danychem|st, ok I'm going to check it cheers14:13
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danyI don't find it. the package that I want is this:
danyit says that I need Fremantle nokia-applications explicit armel14:16
danydeb fremantle/sdk free non-free14:16
danydeb-src fremantle/sdk free14:16
danydeb fremantle/tools free non-free14:16
danydeb-src fremantle/tools free14:16
danydeb fremantle free non-free14:16
danydeb fremantle/MYKEY nokia-binaries14:16
danythis is my sources.list14:16
X-Fadedany: it is in nokia binaries.14:18
X-Fadedany: The one with the key.14:18
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danyX-Fade, so why I get that error message?14:22
X-Fadedany: I don't see an error message?14:23
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danyPackage opengles-sgx-img-common-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package14:23
X-Fadedany: opengles-sgx-img-common-dev_0.20100611.6+0m5_armel.deb14:24
X-Fadedany: That is in nokia-binaries.14:24
danyso I need to: apt-get opengles-sgx-img-common-dev_0.20100611.6+0m5_armel.deb14:24
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danyand that one? the one listed in
trxwhere are kernel modules in scratchbox?14:25
trxi need modules.dep but its not where it should be ;/14:25
trx/lib/modules/ is empty :/14:26
psycho_oreosmaybe try running modinfo on a loaded module14:27
chem|stX-Fade: my scratchbox does tell the same14:28
chem|stX-Fade: no opengles at all14:29
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danychem|st, are you trying to install opengl?14:30
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chem|stdany: I am looking for your package14:32
danychem|st, I ok thanks :)14:32
chem|stbut hang with my not setup armel target14:33
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chem|stsbox_cputransparency_method not set, but I cannot choose any...14:34
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trxpsycho_oreos cant, modprobe cant find that file either..14:35
danychem|st, I think you have to select the QEMU emulator when you're doing the setup14:36
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chem|stdany: ?14:38
danyyou said that you got sbox_cputransparency_method not set14:40
danyI had this error and I solved modifying the setup selecting the QEMU14:40
chem|stdany: I have nothing to select...14:41
danywhen you type: sb-menu and choose setup14:42
danyyou have to select stuff14:42
chem|styes but there is an empty page14:42
danyafter don't you get a blue screen with written stuff like: exit, setup etc14:43
chem|stthe cpu frequency page is just empty14:44
chem|stwell there is a "none" on top14:44
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danyyou can find qemu in the select devkits page14:46
danyI have to go to lunch see you later!14:46
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mgedminwhat's the maemo 5 screenshot key?  ctrl+alt+s?15:04
mgedminI mean shift15:04
* mgedmin googles and finds it's ctrl+shift+p15:09
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alteregomgedmin: ctrl+shift+p15:11
mgedminwhere does it put the screenshot?15:11
alteregosaves to: ~/Mydocs/.images/Screenshots15:11
mgedminoh, I feel stupid now15:12
mgedminls -lrt obviously doesn't show hidden directories15:12
* mgedmin wishes for an imgur sharing service plugin15:13
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mgedminor some other similar image sharing site that's not flickr, facebook or ovi15:13
MohammadAGmgedmin, photobucket and tinypic available15:15
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* mgedmin is waiting for the app manager to finish whatever it's doing and show him the app list15:16
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mgedminyfrog, twitpic -- do any of those sites require an account?15:16
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mgedminok, yfrog requires an account15:21
mgedminI already feel like I'm yak shaving here15:21
* mgedmin installs sharing-cli15:22
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mgedminI'm confused -- sharing-cli wants two filenames, one for source image (clear so far), one for destination (huh?)15:26
mgedminok, it works nicely with scp %s server:path/%s15:28
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mgedminsame filename appears to be used for both %s'es (maybe the second is just the basename)15:28
mgedminnow how do I get ssh to pop up a GUI password dialog if my ssh-agent doesn't have my key?15:29
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pahartikmgedmin: "scp" requires "-p" or timestamp is lost...15:30
SpeedEvilThat sounds handy15:32
mgedminit's awesome15:32
mgedminexcept unfriendly15:32
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mgedminthis seems to be all the documentation it has:
MohammadAGI want a CLI that opens the share dialog15:32
mgedminok, this is something else: it's a share dialog service that runs a CLI program15:32
* mgedmin searches for ssh-askpass implementations -- zero :(15:33
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SpeedEvilI'm being stupid - where do I download this.15:36
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pipnuk  /me is currently eating  'Dimensional Force'  Satay sauce with noodles ... so good15:43
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pipnukall other sauces i've tried are practically inedibly salty/msg-laden by comparison15:45
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jhb|afkSpeedEvil: its in the repos15:54
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jonwilWhat sort of battery life should I be getting from my N900? I charged it up to "battery full" last night and now about a day later, its telling me its nearly flat again16:34
jonwilAnd I havent used the internet or made any calls in that time16:34
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marmoutejonwil: did you let app run ?16:34
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X-Fadejonwil: But you watched 4 hours of video and played 2 hours of 3D games? :)16:35
jonwilI didnt use the phone much at all16:35
jonwilcertainly no 3D or video16:35
Gyjfyep the battery kinda sucks16:35
Gyjfi have to charge it every day16:36
jonwilConsidering Nokias are usually known for their killer battery life, I am surprised at this16:36
jonwilI got better battery life with my crappy Motorola Z616:36
Gyjfmost everything has better batterylife than the n90016:37
jonwilI guess the real question is, is it the hardware that's crap (causing the battery drain) or the software being crap and using up more battery than it should be?16:37
Gyjfits a small computer, not a phone16:38
SpeedEvilThe phone - idle - logged into wifi - lasts 5 days here16:38
nomisGyjf: that holds true for every smartphone.16:38
Gyjfso its not surprising that it takes much bat16:38
SpeedEvilDo you have any software that polls the internet16:38
SpeedEvilat all16:38
Gyjfi use wifi/games on mine tho16:38
jonwilunless the N900 includes some out-of-the-box then no16:38
Gyjfand the power user kernel16:39
DocScrutinizer~ctl-sh-p is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer16:39
Gyjfif that changes anythong16:39
SpeedEviljonwil: Some wifi APs do not properly support power-saving, making the n900 use _much_ more power when logged into them16:39
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jonwilwell my N900 isnt even connected to WiFi, just 3G16:39
jonwilwould being on 3G drain more battery?16:40
X-Fade3G eats way more than wifi.16:40
SpeedEvilNot of irself.16:40
SpeedEvilIf you have no internet connection up.16:40
Gyjfdoes the powersaving features lower the range /quality of wifi?16:40
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SpeedEvilAnd are in a reasonable signal area.16:40
X-FadeEspecially when you are moving around.16:40
SpeedEvilGyjf: not really16:40
SpeedEvilGyjf: it may add slight delays16:40
SpeedEvilGyjf: ping goes from 20-400ms say16:41
jonwilhmmm, I think I know a possible cause. Sometimes when I pull the phone out of my pocket, its sitting on the screen you get if you press the "gear wheel" configure desktop icon16:42
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jonwilso it must be pressing that by accident when I put it into pocket/take it out16:42
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jonwilwould that prevent the power-save mode from activating as fast?16:43
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yaccjonwil, if you do not explicitly 3G (eg. pulling big files, surfing sites that need it), you are usually better served by 2G. Alternatively, I've stopped worrying so much about battery after having bought an external charger and a 2nd battery ;)16:44
Gyjfbut GSM have been severly cracked, we cant use that :P16:45
Gyjfpeople will spy on us :O16:45
yaccGyjf, if you really rely on your plain text communication to be safe, you've got other issues ;)16:45
Gyjfi do use ssl for irc at least :P16:46
Gyjfwell im just kidding, 3g has also been cracked, but not as bad16:46
jonwilwould heat cause a higher rate of battery drain?16:46
SpeedEvilunless you lock it on 3g - a 3g jammer is trivial16:46
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yaccGyjf, I know that GSM is rather cracked, but consider how easy it would be to install a software bug say on your mobile, ...16:47
Gyjfill have to look in to that :D16:47
Gyjfi know16:47
Gyjfbut then theyd had to have my root password16:48
Gyjfor use a silent root exploit :/16:48
yacc*scratch-head* What happens if I do the following: N900's wlan0 and usb0 happen to be in the same bridge device, and wlan0/usb0 get the same IP address assigned, so I'm basically getting two physical devices on the same bridge being possible delivery routes for a given IP address, ...16:50
yaccNever explored the fun of abusing bridges that way.16:50
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Gyjfcan you even do that?17:22
Gyjfthen you have to have the same mac on both interfaces17:23
Gyjfdoing that would be like dividing by 017:23
danyhi there17:23
luke-jryacc: you don't sound like you understand what a bridge is17:24
danyI tried: apt-get install hostmode-gui but I got: coudn't find package hostmode-gui17:24
danydo you know where can I find it?17:24
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Gyjfis there a possibility to use the n900 *as* a usb keyboard?17:27
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mikki-kunGyjf: you mean pluging the n900 via micro-usb into another device and then just typing?17:29
Gyjfpreferably, the output beeing scriptable also17:30
mikki-kuni don't think that is possible17:30
Gyjfaw :(17:30
mikki-kunbut that is just my guess17:30
Gyjfit would be great to just plug it in and run like a bash file17:31
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mikki-kunrun it like a bash file?17:31
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Gyjfjust input predefined keys as a keyboard to the pc17:32
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Gyjffor example, first hotkey for the terminal then run other comands17:32
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mikki-kunhm... so like using it as a gamepad?17:35
crashanddieyacc, there already is an app in the Extras repo (or extras testing? I forget -- it definitely passed devel though) that posts your contact list, including emails, and phone numbers, to /dev/null17:36
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crashanddiejust as a "proof of concept" of how easy it is to fool the QA processus implemented in Maemo17:36
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danydoes anyone know how can I use the usb-host mode ? I tried to install the package but I didn't find it
danyI tried also that link17:37
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yacccrashanddie, that's why I love my N900, I do not recommend it to non-nerds ;)17:37
lcukcrashanddie, ?17:37
danythere are cpp files but no README or doc at all17:37
crashanddielcuk, I launched the idea once, had a few people tell me they'd do it, without telling me what app17:38
mikki-kundany: we have hostmode on repo...17:39
mikki-kun*in the17:39
lcukcrashanddie, but your description is odd17:39
danymikki-kun, which one?17:39
mikki-kunh-e-n it is named17:39
lcukand if you know theres a malicious app in extras then shouldnt you be talking to people17:39
lcuknot about bypassing qa17:40
mikki-kunthe package i mean17:40
danymikki-kun, uhm ok so have I to add to sources.list?17:40
crashanddieit's not malicious17:40
mikki-kunahhh, no, the repo was uhh *checking*17:40
crashanddielcuk, AFAICT, there were three kinds of people who did it: known contributors (common submissions to extras), newcomers (0 day account), and someone with a old account with maybe 1 or 2 submissions17:40
mikki-kunbut that you have the name of the app :)17:40
crashanddiedon't know how many of those did it17:40
crashanddieI don't know what app it is, I've just been told it passed devel.17:40
lcukcrashanddie, but which apps ?17:40
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lcuk-devel is not QA tested at all and nothing to do with anything17:41
danyI m going to check17:41
mikki-kuncan't recall anymore whether it was devel or extras, but i would go and search devel17:41
crashanddielcuk, oh well, then I guess it passed testing?17:42
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crashanddieI don't remember to be honest, this was when I was back in Australia17:42
crashanddieso nearly a year ago now17:42
smokuwhich clean theme for maemo would you recommend?17:42
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BCMMi'm wondering if t-mob UK's changes are going to bother me; anyone know if they provide a way to see data usage from previous months?17:49
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, any progress with mafw?17:51
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crashanddiefound a flat though :)17:51
MohammadAGalso, another thing, did you ever notice why pause/play actually starts a song from the start?17:51
crashanddienever looked into it, tbh17:52
crashanddieprobably a wrong signal firing17:52
crashanddieor we're not providing the position17:52
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MohammadAGI'd imagine that mafw would handle that, rather than the UI...17:53
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GAN900crashanddie, in France still?17:57
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jonwilIs there any place where community-developed replacements for Nokia closed source components are discussed or posted?17:58
jonwilI dont mean like alternative browsers or media players17:58
jonwilbut enhancements to the official software17:58
jonwilor in the case of closed source bits, drop-in replacements17:58
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andre__jonwil: no one place, but and mailing lists18:02
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andre__like Media Player currently18:03
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DocScrutinizerdany: see:18:03
infobotmethinks hostmode is
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jonwilsounds like I should subscribe to maemo-developers then18:04
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danyDocScrutinizer, ok18:07
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danyDocScrutinizer, I already have seen that page18:08
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DocScrutinizerdany: well, in post #1 MohammadAG explains how to install this pkg18:09
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draglyAre the extras-cauldron lists down? I haven't see any new messages since Jan 9.18:11
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* mgedmin delurks, sees the vastness of scrollback, decides not to read it18:11
mgedminactually I forgot what I was going to talk about18:12
mgedminah, grr, the native google reader client18:12
mgedminhere's what its menus look like:
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* mgedmin is once again surprised by the nonexistence of bugzilla.maemo.org18:12
mgedminstupid fingers, why do you type "bugzilla." instead of "bugs."? it's longer!18:13
danyDocScrutinizer, cool I'm going to check it, thank you very much!18:13
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* mgedmin finds
DocScrutinizerdany: also read post #9. And you probably want to skim the whole thread when you're really interested in hostmode18:14
sharjeel_how do i find if i have a UK version of n900?18:14
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danyDocScrutinizer, yes I think so.. thanks again18:14
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* mgedmin finds his other bug was also already reported:
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ZogGMohammadAG, hey18:18
sharjeel_how can i find the version of my firmware?18:20
yaccluke-jr, I think I understand what a bridge is, but I haven't thought far enough, as the bridge does not care about IP addresses, and wlan0 and usb0 have different MAC addresses the bridge won't care. The only thing is how the ARP cache reacts, my guess would be that it takes the MAC address that replies faster (alternatively it could the MAC address that answers last), and use that till the entry expires, which means that only one path (WLAN or USB) will be18:20
yacc used to send data to the N900, while the N900 will do the same, probably deciding at random too.18:20
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, right, wrong state18:23
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MohammadAGZogG, hey18:23
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ZogGMohammadAG sup, i saw your pks singer, would you release it to maemo repos? =)18:24
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MohammadAGnot sure if it's legal ZogG18:24
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danyDocScrutinizer, same problem.. couldn't find package i2c-tools18:25
MohammadAGgeohot got taken to court, wouldn't want to increase the pain on his ass :P18:25
ZogGright after sony sues geohotz =)18:25
ZogGMohammadAG, i thought you left the scene releated stuff18:25
luke-jryacc: a bridge is a switch18:26
luke-jryacc: broadcasts on one side are retransmitted on the other18:26
luke-jryou basically combine the two networks18:26
MohammadAGZogG, this is related to the other server, not the scene, I don't give a crap about them ;)18:26
ZogGbtw i don't get it how is it usefull? if devs release their apps they should do it singed by now, so ...?18:26
luke-jrso if there's PCs using the same IP on each side, they conflict as if they were plugged into the same switch18:26
mgedminsharjeel_, osso-product-info in an xterm _or_ settings -> about device18:26
DocScrutinizerdany: bash up MohammadAG :-)18:27
MohammadAGZogG, less channel spam on other server18:27
* MohammadAG runs - hides18:27
luke-jryacc: also, the slave interfaces effectively cease to have MAC addresses; all interaction happens through the bridge and its one MAC18:27
MohammadAGdany, do you have -devel enabled, or are you installing debs manually18:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: <dany> DocScrutinizer, same problem.. couldn't find package i2c-tools18:27
ZogGMohammadAG have you install CFW?18:27
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm guessing he's clicking the .deb18:27
MohammadAGZogG, sure, why not18:27
DocScrutinizeryeah, probably18:28
danyMohammadAG, I'm installing with apt-get18:28
ZogGMohammadAG i play jailbroken games so i don't hurry18:28
MohammadAGHawt or Nawt?
MohammadAGdany, then apt-get update, something's wrong with your lists18:28
danyMohammadAG, I'm going to try it thx18:28
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: for you, is NOLO *always* hanging after flashing VANILLA, and *never* hanging after flashing COMBINED?18:31
danyMohammadAG, with that I see it cool!18:31
danythank you very much18:31
DocScrutinizerthank you for testing h-e-n :-D18:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it doesn't hang, the device auto boots, even without -R18:32
MohammadAGdany, :)18:32
MohammadAG /me dies18:32
MohammadAGsure, a media bar = extra bass in the mediaplayer18:33
kerioMohammadAG: NAWT18:33
MohammadAGkerio, f off :p18:33
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: anyway, I'll aughment wiki to include something to make you happy :-)18:34
MohammadAGIf you're MohammadAG, flash FIASCO first, then eMMC?18:36
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DocScrutinizersomething along that line, yes. :-)18:37
DocScrutinizeractually I'll elaborate on the advantages and downsides of both methods18:37
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MohammadAGsomeone should patch -R so it randomizes image flashing sequences18:39
MohammadAGthat way, everyone's happy18:39
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DocScrutinizerAnd I might include something like "if you're as cute and experienced as MohammadAG then probably the eMMC_last method is the method of choice for you. If you are a noob and feeling uncomfortble with all this cmdline stuff, then follow the method in "troubleshooting" "18:39
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MohammadAGX-Fade, cauldron lists dead?18:44
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MohammadAGbuilder down?18:46
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: moh's mediaplayer needs proper kbd shortcuts. Please do *not* copy osso MP here, it's basically unusable, without any way to fast-forward/rewind, and maybe even a way to set playback pointer numerically. I watched Dr House yesterday and it was merely inpossible to skip the ad-breaks18:46
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, scrolling can be done with the keyboard, that's a start :P18:47
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, hate that.18:47
alteregoThe lack of decent skipping in video player18:47
MohammadAGalterego, weren't you doing that part? :P18:48
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: osso mediaplayer just supports spacebar for start/stop, and left/right-arrows for skip-to-prev/next18:48
alteregoYes, probably.18:48
DocScrutinizertrying to advance playback pointer a 2min in a 90min video is merely impossible18:49
MohammadAGyeah, hate that part too18:49
MohammadAGhold to forward would be nice indeed18:49
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DocScrutinizernot really, you'll find yourself skipping to next when trying to forward very short time-leap18:50
danyI installed that package18:50
danyI require the kernel-feature-usbhost package18:51
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DocScrutinizerbetter: left/right = FF/REW, hold for increasing speed FF/REW, sh-left/right for skipping to prev/next18:51
danyI m going to install it, thx :)18:51
DocScrutinizerdany: kernel-feature-usbhost is a feature that's provided by power-kernel recently18:52
DocScrutinizerit is not any package on its own18:52
danyDocScrutinizer, so how can I install it? it says that indeed18:53
dany... is a virtual package provided by kernel-power-flasher18:53
DocScrutinizerinstall power kernel, then nstall h-e-n18:53
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I'm still wondering if we really want that dependency in h-e-n GUI18:54
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: we got the runtime check for API version that should do this18:54
toadphoneWhy is there always at least one repository that's down? .18:55
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danyDocScrutinizer, ok I'll try it18:55
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you might in turn want to improve install instructions in h-e-n thread post#118:56
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, h-e-n had more downloads than thread views18:57
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: >> To install: Install hostmode-gui from -devel, the package depends on kernel-feature-usbhost, so it should be compatible with any kernel that provides this (in debian/control), kernel-power provides this, and therefore, if no other kernel that does provide it is supported, it will be installed.<< is a bit terse18:57
DocScrutinizeralso hard to parse for users not that good in English language18:58
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DocScrutinizerI suggest you edit it a bit to have full sentences, full names with links (e.g for "" -devel "")18:59
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: one square dongle or two?19:02
DocScrutinizerhmm, If you ask it like that, I'd say 2 are fine. One for testing, one for analyzing (read: disassembling) :-)19:03
chem|stDocScrutinizer: anything else?19:04
DocScrutinizerhmm, what?19:04
DocScrutinizera pizza salami+peperoni maybe :-D19:05
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DocScrutinizeror are there any discounts available atm? uSD32G for only 2.99$? ;-) Honestly, dunno what you mean19:06
chem|stDocScrutinizer: nvm, packed and shipped 2morrow19:07
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DocScrutinizercool, thanks19:07
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pipnukcan we has a dsp-based midi player19:10
lardmananyone else noticed the autobuilder ml is broken?19:12
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MohammadAGlardman, scroll some lines up, it seems broken since 9 Jan19:13
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lardmanyeah I know, I was wondering if it was supposed to still be broken19:13
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MohammadAGpinged xfade19:14
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lardman|goneMohammadAG: cool19:14
lardman|gonecu chaps day after tomorrow19:14
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pipnukcheers lardman|gone19:19
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pipnuka good channel.  full of people who can spell.19:20
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danyit worked, I installed the h-e-n successfully19:21
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danyI'm trying a usb token19:22
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danythere is the red light but when I watch /media there isn't nothing. I read that it should be mounted automatically, isn't?19:22
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pipnukcat /proc/partitions ?19:24
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danythere are 4  things like mmcblk0 p1 p2 p319:25
danyand sda119:25
pipnukblk0 is your internal storage device... p1,p2,p3 are the partitions on it19:26
danyuhm ok19:26
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pipnukas you insert a sd card you will see additional device revealed in /proc/partitions19:27
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MohammadAGdany, there's a mount button19:27
pipnukand if you attach a usb storage device you should se another19:27
danyMohammadAG, I pressed it19:27
danypipnuk, I have a memory card installed (the sd card I think)19:27
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danythere is also the red light19:28
pipnukit looks like the kernel has not recognized a valid storage device then19:28
danydamn it19:28
MohammadAGhe has sda119:28
danyMohammadAG, maybe is the memory card19:28
danythe sda119:29
MohammadAGmkdir -p /media/sda1 && mount /dev/sda1 /media/sda119:29
danyuhm I'm going to try it19:29
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MohammadAGthat's mmcblk119:29
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danyand so.. what is the internal memory?19:29
danypipnuk said that mmcblk0 is the internal memory19:30
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danyah ok19:30
MohammadAGmmcblk0 internal19:30
MohammadAGmmcblk1 SD19:31
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danybut I haven't mmcblk119:31
MohammadAGsd[a-z] anything else19:31
danyso how is possible19:31
MohammadAGno microSD19:31
danyI haven't in /proc/partitions19:31
MohammadAGgot a uSD?19:32
danyI don't have checked :)19:32
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danyanyway, it should be listed there19:32
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mece~seen Venemo19:33
infobotvenemo <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 18h 56m 46s ago, saying: 'Saviq: mozilla's'.19:33
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danyit worked! but I can't umount it :D19:39
danydevice is busy19:39
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
danyall solved.. it was enought to press VBUS boost on19:40
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* ZogG xmms2> pornophonique - sad robot ["8-bit lagerfeuer" 2007]19:41
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meceI'm trying to build for qt app for maemo with Venemo's notification thingamagig, but seems I'm missing some important bits of hildon-notification19:45
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pipnukthanks zogG - interesting
mecewait.. found some info.19:56
MohammadAGmece, what notification?19:56
meceooh I think it worked...19:56
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meceI had the wrong include paths.19:57
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lardmanI couldn't stay away20:15
lardmanthe knights who say ?20:15
lcukthe very same.20:15
lardmanwell I have nothing to do development on so I can now sit and waste my time chatting to you lot :D20:16
lcuki fixed an odd bug development wise last night20:16
lcukmajor performance regression in graffiti wall :)20:16
ZogGpipnuk you can download them for free from that p2p site where artists share their music themselves20:17
RST38hlardman: come up with something!=)20:17
lardmanI'm waiting for an Android device with OMAP and a kb20:18
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lardmanfor Meegoisation20:18
lcuklardman, whats the data bandwidth available on bluetooth?20:20
ZogGlardman what device?20:21
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RST38hWhy OMAP though?20:22
lardmanRST38h: existing gpu20:22
lardmannot so sure about the snapdragon stuff20:22
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lardmanI'm tempted by the Motorola Milestone 2, uses the same PowerVR as the N900, but a later OMAP20:23
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lardmanbut I'm still a bit concerned about the efuse and how easy it is to flash images to the device, I need to do some more research20:23
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lardmanlcuk: no idea, sorry20:23
lardmanlcuk: from wikipedia v2.0+EDR = 3Mb/s20:24
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lcuklardman, is that why for the bluetooth earpieces you had to reencode audio?20:26
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lardmanthough actually some can accept mp3 data and do the decoding themselves20:26
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lcukahh cool20:27
lcukit was just with hearing today that theres wireless graphics cards20:27
lardmanI think the other part of the reason for SBC was so the earpieces could be really cheap20:27
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ieatlintthat's kinda weird20:30
LjLuhm, did anything special happen recently that may have made N8x0's be worth more on ebay?20:30
MohammadAGhow do I get a list of build depends?20:30
MohammadAGthere's shlibs:Depends for dependencies...20:31
lcukMohammadAG, I never got a satisfactory answer to this20:31
ZogGnice website20:31
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lcukyou mean you cloned a source repository20:31
lcukwhich has /debian subfolder20:31
lcukand now you want to find out how to build it ;)20:32
lardmanLjL: transitioned from being old to vintage? ;)20:32
LjLuhm :P20:33
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lcukmy n810 handled itself admirably this last weekend20:33
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MohammadAGmy N900 didn't20:34
MohammadAGwhich has led to me complaining about devices :p20:34
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lcukwhat did you do to it?20:34
MohammadAGnothing, it's been giving SGX recovery problems in dmesg20:35
MohammadAGit also went nuts the other day20:35
MohammadAGthis is the task switcher:
lardmanwhen last siwtched on my N900 was stuck between two desktops, was an odd look20:36
lardmanbut at least I had some colours ;)20:36
MohammadAGthough I'm surprised it showed in a screenshot, unless the screenshot's taken through hardware20:36
MohammadAGthat stayed on till I rebooted actually20:36
lardmangrabbed from the framebuffer20:36
ZogGfail0verflow has just released all their PS3 tools THEY made (most likely a response to the lawsuit).20:37
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lardmanhave you reflashed?20:37
MohammadAGnah, I find reflashing too big of a loss20:37
MohammadAGtoo much effort in restoring stuff I've done20:37
lardmanwhat about kernel + kernel modules?20:37
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lcukMohammadAG, hrm20:37
ZogGreflash os fro pu.. little cats =)20:37
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lcukis that a one off thing then20:37
MohammadAGit's fine now, but...20:38
MohammadAGI sometimes get SGX Hardware recovery triggered in dmesg20:38
MohammadAGit recovers, and I notice a framedrop20:38
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lcukyou sometimes need recovering20:38
lcukis that on nights you drink too? *grin*20:38
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# dmesg | grep SGX |wc -l20:38
lcukout of how many frames?20:39
MohammadAGyeah, even SGXs get hangovers20:39
MohammadAGidk, but it's noticeable :P20:39
lcukyou do tend to abuse yours20:39
MohammadAGI can hildon-desktop miss a frame or two with transitions20:39
MohammadAGnah, the SGX is too small to be abused20:39
MohammadAGupgraded my nvidia drivers and my wl drivers20:40
MohammadAGmy laptop suspends in 3 seconds now20:40
MohammadAGit suspends faster than windows!20:40
MohammadAGresumes in 2s20:40
lcukmy laptop suspends instantly20:40
lcukwhen i pop its battery20:40
KevinBIS that true that N900 is not using hardware accelertion on maemo?20:41
MohammadAGyeah, mine does that too, I think we should complain20:41
lardmanI have major issues with wifi with my netbook + Ubuntu20:41
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MohammadAGKevinB, no, that's some bullshit spread on maemo20:41
lardmanKevinB: no, it's not true20:41
MohammadAGlardman, broadcom?20:41
lcukwhat specific operations are accelerated?20:41
MohammadAGI get 634343242s + lag in XChat's indicator, but it's usually 10s or so20:41
* lcuk puts people on the spot20:41
lardmanMohammadAG: you never know, now they;re on the opensource bandwagon perhaps things will change20:42
lardmanlcuk: ui transitions20:42
lardmantask managery thing20:42
KevinBJust heard that some 'task' were software computed means less efficiency20:42
lardmanyeah, so not much at all20:42
MohammadAGsome people think acceleration is not used at all, because of the 0 in /etc/powervr.d/20:42
lardmanMohammadAG: some people don't think20:43
MohammadAGand that changing it to 1 enables SGX acceleration20:43
lardmanand judging by the crap people are talking on TMO atm....20:43
MohammadAGit makes frames go faster, and crashes my device 6 + times a day20:43
lcukwell MohammadAG you have just continued the meme here20:43
MohammadAGlardman, some is an understatement20:43
lcukMohammadAG, you are an active tmo poster :)20:44
jacktheripperactually it never crashed here with that option.. my transitions are lighter though.20:44
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MohammadAGlcuk, you're a lurker, makes us equal20:44
MohammadAGtry opening dialogs and closing them quick20:44
MohammadAGI do that a lot20:44
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MohammadAG :D20:45
lcuki post20:45
lcukand i also don't insult others there20:45
MohammadAGlcuk, I'm not insulting others, just stating facts :P20:46
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MohammadAGsometimes, I'm stumped by some posts20:46
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lcukMohammadAG, thats of course true20:46
lcuki sometimes cannot read my own posts :P20:47
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lcukMohammadAG, i dont lurk that much20:48
KevinBDont you think hildon render kinda slow sometimes, durnig transition or switchingto portrait mode20:48
MohammadAGlcuk, you made a whole wall of pics from the PR1.2 thread :P20:49
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lcukMohammadAG, that thread was made of awesome20:51
lcukand is a great test of browser20:51
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MohammadAGhow do I set up a mailing list?21:01
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vi__yo, i have a serious issue...21:02
ieatlintheh, apparently i missed the whole set of nokia n9 rumours that came out on saturday21:02
lcukMohammadAG, theres a mailing list about that21:02
* lcuk has mailing list overload21:02
JaffaMohammadAG: garage?21:02
vi__my volume keys have stopped changing the volume!21:02
MohammadAGJaffa, private, not related to maemo ;)21:03
JaffaMohammadAG: No-one ever came up with a good alternative when suggesting open solutions like gitorious instead of garage.maemo.org21:03
vi__they make xterm font bigger and smaller so I know they still work however they no longer change the volume!21:03
JaffaMohammadAG: Ah21:03
jacekowskin9 is out/21:03
vi__plese help me!!21:03
JaffaMohammadAG: mailman - but it's a pain21:03
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jacekowskivi__: flash it21:03
Jaffaieatlint: Good ones?21:04
MohammadAGJaffa, hmm, why?21:04
Jaffaieatlint: Until I see one mention 854x480 I won't believe it21:04
JaffaMohammadAG: Just faffy to integrate with your MTA etc. etc.21:04
ieatlintclaims 960x480 res21:04
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ieatlintclose enough to believe?21:04
ZogGkstep is good =)21:04
MohammadAGJaffa, MTA?21:04
ieatlintthe specs it claims would be awesome, but i have absolutely no reason to believe a word on that page21:04
vi__um no21:05
vi__that is not a solution21:05
JaffaMohammadAG: Mail Transfer Agent (exim, postfix etc.)21:05
jacekowskivi__: it is21:05
jacekowskivi__: flash it21:05
Jaffaieatlint: Perhaps21:05
infobotflashing is probably
ieatlintit also claims that the "leaked photos" of the n9 from last august are not correct21:05
Jaffaieatlint: But that reiterates Snapdragon - which is just unbelievable21:06
ieatlintand implies that there may be no hardware keyboard, which would disappoint me21:06
ieatlintyes, it also inexplicably puts the cpu spec on the same line as the screen's spec21:07
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JaffaOMAP3630's almost a given, unless the delay was taken to fundamentally shake up the h/w21:07
GAN900Well, I heard there may be multiple formfactors.21:07
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jacekowskiJaffa: still omap3?21:07
ieatlintthey claim it was hw ready in q4/201021:07
jacekowskiJaffa: i would expect omap421:07
GAN900And switching from OMAP to Snapdragon would be pointless.21:07
MohammadAGJaffa, I see21:07
GAN900jacekowski, 45nm, anyway.21:07
JaffaGAN900: In one go? That'd be *very* brave for Nokia21:07
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MohammadAGieatlint, it's too overspecced to be true21:07
ieatlintMohammadAG: yeah, my thoughts21:07
Jaffajacekowski: Nokia put a lot of effort into OMAP3630 support. Whether that was then bypassed or not, I've no idea21:08
MohammadAG64GB expandable memory <-- microSD ends at 32GBs afaik21:08
ieatlintas i stated, i have no reason to believe a word on that page21:08
MohammadAGSDHC that is21:08
MohammadAGso unless they got SDXC...21:08
jacekowskiJaffa: well, omaps are not so different21:08
GAN900Jaffa, indeed.21:08
jacekowskiMohammadAG: it's just a software21:08
jacekowskiMohammadAG: and linux can do sdxc21:08
GAN900Jaffa, could be staggered, though.21:08
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MohammadAGjacekowski, SDXC has the same hw spec as SDHC?21:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: yes21:09
ieatlintif the specs were roughly correct though, it'd dwarf the hw capabilities of every other phone on the market21:09
JaffaGAN900: Yeah, I'd expect Nokia to *have* to come out with another MeeGo(ish) device next year. Maybe 2H running "real" MeeGo and corresponding with a real MeeGo update to N921:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: it's just different data structures on card itself21:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: but that's software problem21:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: and linux can do it21:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: so n900 can do it21:09
Jaffajacekowski: True; but Nokia've never been rapid in the h/w design stakes. ISTR that the h/w people deliver something and the software teams have/had to build something for it.21:09
MohammadAGieatlint, and my old laptop, so I can't believe that21:10
MohammadAGjacekowski, I see21:10
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MohammadAGI'll wait for something official before looking at android devices :p21:10
ieatlintthat page also claims the symbian^3 update will push the cpu clock on existing devices from 680mhz to 727mhz, heh21:10
ieatlintwell, hopefully the rumour of it being MWC is correct then, because i too am at the stage of looking more and more at android21:11
MohammadAGnothing weird about that21:11
MohammadAGthe 5800XM was increasing from 3XX-ish to 424MHz21:11
ieatlintMohammadAG: oh, i believe it, more than anything else on that page..21:12
ieatlintjust somehow find it vaguely funny21:12
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* GAN900 vomits.21:14
ieatlintcan also say the meego conference in may will be a lot better off with a mobile handset already on the ground21:14
ieatlintheh, yes, this is why i am not on android... there are significant issues i have with it.. but at the end of the day, it has features that nokia seemingly isn't able to keep up with21:14
MohammadAGGAN900, at least they run MeeGo ;)21:14
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]i intent to make a build environment in a virtualbox vm running ubuntu. are there any good guides to learning how to compile source?-21:15
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]needs to be from a newbie persepective21:15
jacekowskiwhat do you know about programming?21:15
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BCMM[DrkGUNMAN-N900]: how to compile stuff in general, or how to cross-compile for maemo?21:16
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]not much appart from scripting. I am trying to get my head around it though. I would like to learn how to cross compile linux source for maemo, particularly try and getr midp working for phoneme21:17
jacekowski[DrkGUNMAN-N900]: start on normal PC21:17
jacekowski[DrkGUNMAN-N900]: and then move to embedded stuff21:17
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]dotblank was very helpful yesterday but i'd like to learn how he did it21:17
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]fair enough. already have the build environment ready on device following the guides and the script provided. now for a standard pc environment.21:19
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MohammadAGwhat about it21:22
vi__so my volume keys dont turn the volume up and down, could that be an issue with dbus?21:22
MohammadAGFYI, if you don't know what dd is, you probably shouldn't experiment with it21:22
MohammadAGjust flash it21:23
MohammadAGit's probably a problem with the status menu volume plugin though21:23
MohammadAGor keyboard-shortcuts or modified hildon-desktop21:23
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MohammadAGbut no, it's not mhd21:23
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MohammadAGthere's an #n900 channel? o_O21:26
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trxnot many users tho21:32
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MohammadAGI saw it in a screenshot on tmo21:33
MohammadAGbut.. why21:33
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trxno idea..21:33
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GAN900It's bad when you get to the point in life where you forget which stores you've been ejected from.21:41
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spiritdMohammadAG ... i tested hostmode with my flashdrive... its lowered my battery from 33% to 18% during 3 mins... is it ok?21:42
spiritdand i copied only one small txt21:42
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MohammadAGyes, the battery meter wasn't exactly 33% when you started21:44
MohammadAGit's too way off21:44
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kerioMohammadAG: is there *some* way to get an accurate battery charge21:53
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MohammadAGstop bme && start bme21:55
MohammadAGdon't come back asking why it dropped half a battery after that21:55
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Mr_Rixaanyone w/ OC active, any sings of battery life extend or better performance22:00
spiritdMohammadAG I started hen and stopped ... still 8,8%22:02
spiritdhm 7,9 now22:02
spiritdis there some command line for stopping bme?22:03
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MohammadAGstop bme22:04
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GAN900Mr_Rixa, really going to depend.22:09
DocScrutinizerspiritd: battery meter is controlled by bme. bme is getting confused when you stop and start it22:10
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DocScrutinizerspiritd: don't worry about meter being much lower after h-e-n quit. It's not reflecting the real situation. h-e-n vboost is eating quite a bit of battery power, but not THAT much22:11
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DocScrutinizerspiritd: bme will sync with true state of battery during several tens of minutes, or when charging battery22:14
spiritdwell... once again copied file... and battery lowered from 8 to 4%22:15
spiritddont say me this is only some bme confusion22:16
Mr_RixaGAN900: Well, thought I'd get it more responsive if I oc it to 900 900 w/ xlv profile.. then thought what will happend to the battery life..22:16
DocScrutinizerno, bme lowered form display:8% to display:4%22:16
spiritdbut if i restart bme by "stop bme" and "start bme" it doesnt change22:16
DocScrutinizerspiritd: why not say you this is bme confusion? If you don't like to hear that, then please don't complain here22:16
trxspiritd you cant expect battery to ignore a stick that is using its power...22:17
GAN900Mr_Rixa, it's gotta be able to clock down or you'll kill it in no time flat.22:17
GAN900Mr_Rixa, judging by your conclusions there I'd probably recommend not overclocking.22:17
spiritdi am just not sure .... thats why am I asking so offensivly :)22:18
Mr_RixaGAN900: sleep drives cpu to 0% ?22:18
spiritdtrx... well but 4% over 1min of connection?22:18
Mr_Rixaso it will be 0 or 90022:18
trxspiritd so what?22:19
trx200 mA22:19
DocScrutinizerspiritd: yeah, so please do the math xourself. It's impossible, so either you accept bme is telling BS about battery capacity after restarting it, or go on to moan and whine here, but nobody will give you a convenient answer22:20
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GAN900Mr_Rixa, not if you set it to 900/900.22:20
trx200 mA is what n900 can provide via usb22:21
vi__I have a problem with my n90022:21
trxa usb stick doesnt use that much22:21
vi__the volume keys no longer turn the volume up and down22:21
trxso calculate yourself..22:21
DocScrutinizer1250mAh *4% * 60 = mA you need to draw from battery to get that result in real22:21
vi__however they still zoom in browser and xterm22:21
vi__so it is a software error22:22
vi__can anyone sugest why my volume keys dont work and how i can fix it?22:22
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DocScrutinizerspiritd: trx: if you do that math, you can see easily it will be more current than battery could theoretically provide continuously22:24
vi__is the volume keys controlled by dbus?22:25
DocScrutinizerhell, try same test with a freshly charged 100% battery, and you'll see sth like 65% in one minute22:25
DocScrutinizerso YES, it *is* bme confusion and nothing else22:25
MohammadAGit's also global warming DocScrutinizer22:26
DocScrutinizeryeah, and gremlins22:26
DocScrutinizerand abill_uk's ghost22:26
trxpr1.4 too22:26
vi__mohammedag, you know about the finer points of maemo22:26
MohammadAGvolume keys are F4 and F(3/5, can't remember), they're simply captured by the status applet, if not, they fail to do anything except pass F4 and the other key22:26
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vi__oh shi...22:26
kerioMohammadAG: you mean f6/f722:27
vi__I attempted to remap F1-F10 to ctrl+alt+number keys22:27
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vi__perhaps that has buggered it up22:27
DocScrutinizeryou bet it did22:27
vi__another question22:28
vi__is the email applet closed source?22:28
MohammadAGapplet yes, app no22:28
MohammadAGkerio, wanna bet?22:28
DocScrutinizerapplet? never seen any for mail22:28
kerioMohammadAG: no, but i'm really confident22:29
vi__is the size of the applet hardcoded?22:29
DocScrutinizerI put my money on jerio22:29
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DocScrutinizeryou can easily find out in xchat's keybindings22:29
MohammadAGI got my money on alterego's code :p22:30
Mr_RixaGAN900: but then I would have a good pocket warmer ;D22:30
DocScrutinizerwell, maybe xchat code is borked22:30
DocScrutinizercalling the key F6 but actually testing for F4?22:30
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MohammadAGlemme check22:31
MohammadAGI might be mistaken anyway22:31
DocScrutinizerI think it might be F5/622:32
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trxnice idea, for my code editor22:32
trxchange font size via volume buttons :)22:32
DocScrutinizerF7/8 in xchat?22:32
MohammadAGalteregoF4 and F5 are the volume keys btw22:33
* MohammadAG pets his memory again22:33
alteregoMohammadAG: I know .. :P22:34
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MohammadAGalterego, do I have to use "" to point out it's a quote?22:35
MohammadAGit's what you said22:35
MohammadAG"<alterego> F4 and F5 are the volume keys btw"22:35
MohammadAGhappy? :P22:35
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alteregoYes, and thank you22:36
RST38bisheya alterego22:36
MohammadAGthat'll be 50 bucks sir22:36
lcukMohammadAG, collective mgedmin memory is awesome :)22:36
MohammadAGindeed, but what's a mgedmin? :P22:37
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MohammadAG~factinfo $5022:38
DocScrutinizerin xchat it's F7 and F8 anyway22:38
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DocScrutinizerso maybe even alterego is wrong? or xchat source is wrong?22:39
RST38bishmmm...7 windows open, still operable22:40
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, alterego's code works22:40
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MohammadAGtested it in some app22:40
RST38bisxchat? who is invoking its spirit from the Abyss?22:40
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: xchat works as well22:41
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DocScrutinizereven the "change page 1" and "change page -1" cmds mapped to F7 and F822:42
MohammadAGalterego, you were wrong22:42
* MohammadAG takes food away from memory22:43
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MohammadAGat least in the IRC logs you were, your code was right though22:43
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DocScrutinizer    // Swap +/- keys intentionally. The VOL+/VOL- keys are located physically22:48
DocScrutinizer    // on left/right and up/down in landscape/portrait orientation.22:48
DocScrutinizer    key <FK07>  { [     F8      ] };22:48
DocScrutinizer    key <FK08>  { [     F7      ] };22:48
DocScrutinizerless /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-5122:48
MohammadAGF7 and F8 in code above22:49
MohammadAGno need to less anything22:49
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DocScrutinizerwho cares about code? it can be wrong22:51
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pipnukthe US embassy in baghdad takes 1.2 billion dollars a year to run22:53
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DocScrutinizerI suggest to close it for 4 weeks and pass the money saved to me :-P22:55
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ieatlintsorry, we'd rather spend a billion dollars on a foreign country with oil than $10 on you22:56
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DocScrutinizer*sigh* I knew he'd say that22:56
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ieatlintyou should see our plans for canada22:57
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ieatlintfew seem to realize how much of our oil comes from the great white north... we already violate their sovereignty, might as well finish the job and save a few more bucks22:58
pipnukoh canada!22:59
pipnukspeaking of which how are the linux drivers for ati nowadays?23:00
* DocScrutinizer wonders when break-even will happen, and from then on war in oil exporting countries costs more gasoline than it earns you23:00
DocScrutinizercan't take long till we reach that point23:01
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pipnukum... ..... been that way for 20 years23:02
pipnukmercantilism is about special interests, not general interests23:02
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DocScrutinizeresp since it's not just the oil needed for gasoline for F16 and ships and tanks and shit. It's also the coal used to produce the steel for those weaponry instead of replacing oil in heating and energy, and whatnot else23:03
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ieatlintwe just need to find places that won't resist us as much23:04
ieatlinti think canada is an excellent choice23:04
ieatlintor we could invade the falklands, that seemed simple enough23:05
SpeedEvilI've espoused the simple solution (for the UK) of ramping nuclear power up 20 fold.23:05
SpeedEvilPutting all fixed loads (heating, industrial process heat, ...) onto electricity.23:05
SpeedEvilLeaving only the transport fleet on oil.23:05
ieatlintwe're *finally* starting to look at nuclear again here in the states23:06
SpeedEvilWhich we can do a large slice of from internal UK resources.23:06
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ieatlintpeople here freak out about the risk of an accident, what to do with the waste, and how to pronounce the word "nuclear"23:06
SpeedEvilAnd then trying to move to radiocatalathermogenic hydrogen for the rest.23:06
SpeedEvilieatlint: Simple solution - centralise it. I suggest the Centralised Uranium Based Area.23:07
ieatlintCUBA? interesting ..23:07
SpeedEvilieatlint: There is already even a convenient location already named.23:07
ieatlinti like that solution23:07
DocScrutinizerieatlint: only until your fish from mexican gulf not only tastes like oil but also replaces your incandescent bulbs23:08
ieatlinti can't speak with any real amount of knowledge on the topic, but i've been told that due to the age of our nuclear power plants (all dating back at least 30 years, often more), they follow a less efficient process that results in more waste23:08
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Juozapashi is is possible to install ncmpcpp on maemo@n900 ?23:09
ieatlintand then people get all pissy about the transport of the waste (despite the fact they use vehicles that you could shoot RPGs into and the nuclear waste would never leak), and where it ends up ultimately -- often in the middle of the nevada desert in an old mine23:09
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DocScrutinizerhonestly, the amount of waste is irrelevant by now. You got no proper way to deal with what's there already, and you don't increase risk a lot by multiplying that heap of ticking shit23:10
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ieatlintyes, and it's also a joke when you look at the visible health effects of our current system versus the hypothetical and extremely unlikely effects of a system that is proven effective in countless countries23:11
ieatlintand even now, a significant portion of our power comes from nuclear -- just extremely aged plants23:11
ieatlintmaybe the simpsons didn't help :P23:11
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DocScrutinizernah, John Average US citizen lived in a comic strip all his live ever since, no need for Simpsons23:13
DocScrutinizerIt always seemed to me esp US Gvmt thinks real live is like A-team23:13
GAN900Elie Wiesel was just in the store.23:13
GAN900We talked about the weather. . . .23:14
ieatlinti'm also intrigued by the new nissan leaf electric car.. 100mi/160km range, all electric23:15
GAN900Electric cars are too boring.23:15
DocScrutinizermeh, yeah. Tesla23:15
DocScrutinizerextremely boring23:15
ieatlint8h charge on 220v, or reportedly 30min to get to 80% charge on a special 500v charger23:15
SpeedEvilieatlint: I have _SERIOUS_ objections to subsidisng them.23:16
ieatlintyeah, but the nissan leaf costs about $20k + 9.5% tax here23:16
ieatlintand gets you in the HOV lanes23:16
SpeedEvilieatlint: Why the fuck should the rich get subsidies from the poorer.23:16
DocScrutinizerwhatever that means23:16
ieatlinttesla is incredibly expensive, and won't reach full production until 2013 i think23:16
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: hovercraft lanes.23:16
ieatlinthigh occupancy vehicle (or "diamond lanes", "carpool lanes")... lanes that are restricted to vehicles with X people in them to reduce traffic congestion23:17
ieatlintelectric cars here can use them freely23:17
DocScrutinizerJuozapas: I don't even know what that is23:18
derfAlso motorcycles.23:18
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DocScrutinizerJuozapas: if it's a SW then obviously you can install it if somebody made an installable pkg for maemo (or a universal pkg if it's platform agnostic). But maybe it's some HW even?23:20
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Juozapasits a music player for mpd23:20
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DocScrutinizer~dict mpd23:23
infobotDictionary 'mpd' Message Preparation Directory23:23
GAN900SpeedEvil, it also limits technological development to whatever idiotic shit the government can think up.23:24
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smokuAFAIR Music Player Daemon23:25
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smokusomething like XMMS223:25
SpeedEvilGAN900: yes. Another annoyance is I can only install solar/wind solutions from a registered provider. This costs around 10* real costs. However - they then subsidise the generated electricity to a stupid extent.23:28
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SpeedEvilnon-subsidised would pay back for me in ~4 years.23:29
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GAN900Government should stay out of places it's too corrupt and incompetent to be in.23:32
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SpeedEvilIt's fundamentally a good idea.23:33
SpeedEvilSubsidisng to a mild extent solar.23:33
SpeedEvilAs it reduces the need for foreign exchange to buy oil.23:33
DocScrutinizeralas government is too corrupt and incompetent to stay out23:33
SpeedEvilBut then it gets into lobbying from the solar installers who want to insure they get work.23:33
trip0DocScrutinizer, +123:34
smokuGAN900, electric cars boring? +1.   IMO the future is LHG23:34
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smokuyou drive to the gas station, fill a tank with hydrogen in 2 minutes and there you go...23:35
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GAN900I want nuclear powered cars.23:36
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smokufirst we need to invent cold fusion :)23:37
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* SpeedEvil has a nuclear power source next to his genitals.23:37
GAN900Really, though, I'd like something that has the primal appeal of internal combustion.23:37
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ZogG_worknice n9 concepts23:39
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trip0concepts... meh. gimme the real deal!23:39
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smokuGAN900, there are some steam-powered concept cars in the making :)  is that appealing? :)23:45
meceyay verily yay23:47
meceFINALLY got something working23:47
mecei got that little led to blink blue :)23:47
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ZogG_workMohammadAG: your bar can be activeted while phone call?23:49
ZogG_workas well it turns on while screen is locked too =)23:50
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