IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-12-26

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* timeless_mbp sighs00:03
timeless_mbpok, is it "Nokia N900" or "Nokia n900" ?00:03
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SwedeMikeit says N900 on the cover.00:03
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FireStorm|thatbetter :D00:04
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FireStorm|bbc 1 if your in the uk :D00:04
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FireStorm|urm up in the flat now :) proper tv and decent laptop :D00:04
Venemo_N900timeless_mbp: capital N afaik00:04
FireStorm|Venemo_N900 what u work as then?00:04
timeless_mbpthanks, *sigh*00:05
DocScrutinizerLOL, now KDE system monitor on a different machine got a segfault00:05
Venemo_N900FireStorm|: I was working as a .Net developer. my contract ended on dec 15th, so now I can devote myself to university :)00:05
FireStorm|:D cool00:06
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DocScrutinizer..while sitting there idle in the background00:06
Venemo_N900lol DocScrutinizer00:06
Venemo_N900FireStorm|: I have my first year in electronic engineering00:07
FireStorm|ah very nice :)00:08
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: hey colleague :-D00:09
Venemo_N900hi DocScrutinizer :)00:10
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: let's hope one day you can really call me that00:10
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Venemo_N900hi pradeep00:20
pradeepVenemo_N900, how was your day00:20
Venemo_N900not bad, thanks for asking00:21
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Muellihm. I think I broke maegirls. Installing via the SDK worked fine. Installing on the N900 with the AppManager GUI didn't. apt-get install maegirls, however, worked. Weird.00:21
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sairsi trying to crosscompile some apps for maemo, it does compile but one missing00:25
pradeepsairs, hi00:25
sairsit only creates .ar file00:25
sairsi would need to preload this so but can i do this with the .a?00:25
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lcukVenemo_N900, grr00:29
Venemo_N900what's up lcuk?00:29
comawhitefMMS is slow :(00:29
lcukyou just left as I was typing to you00:29
Venemo_N900oh, sry00:29
Venemo_N900will rejoin00:29
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timeless_grr, can i haz working wifi?00:31
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DocScrutinizer-8whatever maegirls might be. I could only think of missing or surplus repos in HAM00:37
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DocScrutinizer-8lcuk: merry xmas00:37
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comawhitefMMS only supports 1.0?00:41
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MohammadAG1.0 what?00:43
comawhiteMMS-Version 1.0, while my friends sends MMS-Version 1.200:43
comawhitei was just wondering, not complaining :P00:44
CutMeOwnThroatI ran xsnow a couple of days ago on the N900... since then I'm busy shoveling snow in front of the house... bad mistake00:45
pradeepCutMeOwnThroat, lol00:45
timeless_mbpcomawhite: you could probably file a bug w/ sample data00:46
comawhitewhere would I file a bug at for this?00:47
* SpeedEvil wonders if the person lurking in the channel is awake.00:47
povbotBug 10714: FMMS not working00:47
timeless_mbpseems to indicate there's an fMMS product00:47
comawhitethank you :)00:47
timeless_mbpthus that seems like a good choice00:47
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* timeless_mbp sighs00:48
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* timeless_mbp lost a battery00:50
comawhitehow you lose a battery?00:50
* comawhite always loses his stylus00:50
timeless_mbpdropping it on a messy floor works :)00:51
comawhitetime to clean00:51
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timeless_mbpright, so...00:51
timeless_mbppeople who have opinions about strings00:52
timeless_mbpthere are three ways to download a message:00:52
timeless_mbp<the full thing>00:52
timeless_mbp<something less than the full thing>00:52
timeless_mbp<only its headers>00:52
timeless_mbpthis means that i need 4 strings, those three, plus one to describe what those things are00:53
FireStorm|fooking sms problem doing my nut in :@00:53
timeless_mbpopinions? Jaffa ? MohammadAG ? Venemo_N900 / SwedeMike ?00:53
comawhitemy only grip about mms is the slowness of sending a message (t-mobile issue I'm assuming)00:53
timeless_mbpit's a crappy protocol00:53
alterego"Download" = "Full Message", "Headers Only"00:54
timeless_mbpsolving a problem that mostly doesn't exist00:54
alteregoOr "Preview" maybe00:54
alteregoFor the partial00:54
timeless_mbpalterego: hrm, that sounds good00:54
* FireStorm| lobs his phone out the window and pulls the G1 out the draw!00:56
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timeless_mbpFireStorm|: i'll give you 1USD for it00:56
* timeless_mbp could use another n90000:56
FireStorm|no!!!! unless u take on the 18 month contract?00:59
timeless_mbpsome people don't know how to appreciate a good product :)00:59
FireStorm|is it even worth 1 us?00:59
timeless_mbpto me? sure00:59
comawhitei need a new n900, the usb cable sucks balls00:59
timeless_mbpcomawhite: details?00:59
comawhitei barely touch the phone and it disconnects00:59
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FireStorm|timeless_mbp i like it alot but the SMS "issue" is annoying me00:59
FireStorm|comawhite yer that is a issue on mine, my phone charger don't seem to like it very much but usb is spot on :S00:59
timeless_mbpcomawhite: err, yeah, buy FireStorm| 's00:59
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timeless_mbpor not00:59
FireStorm|but then i use chager on other phone and works spot on00:59
FireStorm|work that one out00:59
timeless_mbpplease be careful, the usb port on the n900 is um... delicate00:59
comawhiteFireStorm|, yeah I spend like 10 minutes getting it to show up in Windows 700:59
FireStorm|that windows 7 fr u :p00:59
comawhitesame thing in Linux00:59
ShadowJKI'd definitely give 200 for a used N900 with no "charging issues" or other hw problems00:59
FireStorm|thats called piss ;p00:59
comawhiteI get "Insufficient power"00:59
FireStorm|ShadowJK it don't have any charging issues00:59
FireStorm|i just think the charger don't like it lol00:59
MohammadAGcomawhite, that's your laptop/underpowered\ desktop for you00:59
comawhitehow is it underpowering :S00:59
ShadowJKFireStorm|, no that sounds exactly like a loose usb port :-)00:59
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ShadowJKit's about to fall off00:59
comawhiteboth are plugged in to the wall (both laptop and desktop)00:59
FireStorm|MohammadAG i get that at work, plugged in all day, unplug phone go to lunch come back n plug it back in and get the error00:59
FireStorm|ShadowJK nar lol!!!! if it falls off it goes back for repair :)01:00
comawhiteFireStorm|, if I get it to work, I have no problems afterwards as long as I don't move it01:00
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* timeless_mbp sighs01:00
timeless_mbpmerging sucks01:00
comawhitefucking nitdroid won't work01:00
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FireStorm|lol comawhite sounds like ur up shit greek with out a padell01:00
ShadowJKI need to bring mine back for repairs, the phone part seems to have desoldered itself or come loose, but I need to buy a second one first as backup to use for the 2 week trip to nokia care.01:01
FireStorm|thats the one!01:01
FireStorm|sorry i'm trying to watch a film, lean down and type on keyboard lol01:01
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comawhiteI wonder if this phone as a warrenty on it or not01:01
ShadowJKYou can enter the IMEI into nokia care site and it tells you01:01
comawhitealso I need to call simplemobile to get my phone number changed, I got like 6 SMS's from people I don't know01:02
FireStorm|i've cracked 3 screens so far :D01:02
comawhitehow the fuck you do that?01:02
FireStorm|1st one01:02
FireStorm|i lost my temper and it hit a wall!01:02
FireStorm|2nd one, i think i had it in pocket climbed into a car n caught the door latch01:03
CutMeOwnThroathappens a lot, does it?01:03
FireStorm|3rd time i have no idea!01:03
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FireStorm|it was in pocket i got out car and walked like 2 mins down the road adn it was cracked01:03
CutMeOwnThroatI meant 1)01:03
* timeless_mbp hates merging01:03
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FireStorm|by car phone warehouse are wanka nd don't cover for it even though u can see no acutal damage to the screen01:03
FireStorm|oh lol CutMeOwnThroat nar i was annoyed at something, so unimportant i can't remeber what lol01:04
CutMeOwnThroatactually also ruined a camera I had in my pocket running into the rail of stairs... really dangerous having stuff in front-trouser pockets01:04
comawhiteFireStorm|, and nokia had no problem replacing it for you?01:04
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FireStorm|i had to pay excess01:05
FireStorm|firs ttime they done it01:05
FireStorm|2 weeks later pic just went off so took it back and they sent it off to nokia n repaired it, think they damaged the lcd cable...01:06
DocScrutinizerFireStorm|: I really can  not parse your sentences :-(01:06
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, it's hard to read the english written by native english speakers :)01:06
FireStorm|i'm sorry01:06
DocScrutinizerI'm just amazed crashanddie hasn't already kicked you, as he did with much more prominent and busy users (raster)01:07
FireStorm|i'm sorry for not speaking proper english!01:07
FireStorm|+ , some where in there :p01:07
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, have you seen austin powers movies, not dubbed?01:07
DocScrutinizerjust avoiding "u", "en", and weird syntax, would help a lot01:08
FireStorm|it's just i'm used to typing like that!!! no idea why cause I don't txt using txt speach :S01:08
DocScrutinizerI said it before, too 7331 speak isn't really appreciated01:08
FireStorm|maybe i'm getting lazy in my old age! :p01:08
DocScrutinizeralso see01:08
infobotsomebody said question was If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
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DocScrutinizerfsck your 'old age', If you wre older then me you'd not be on IRC01:09
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FireStorm|where are you from then DocScrutinizer?01:09
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DocScrutinizerand I can read and understand ~45 languages of this planet. Some of them even spoken by a significant number of other 'normal' human beings01:11
DocScrutinizeryet I have problems to parse your postings01:11
ShadowJK45? :-)01:11
DocScrutinizerIf you count in dialects like C++ vs C# etc, then yes01:11
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FireStorm|i'm quiet surprised at that DocScrutinizer i've never had any one complain about the way i put a sentence together!01:12
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ShadowJKwhat about tlhIngan Hol? :-)01:12
DocScrutinizerNot fluently01:13
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ShadowJKLast election, a candidate for parliament had his website translated to that :)01:14
FireStorm|ShadowJK, you from the uk ?01:15
FireStorm|hmm ok01:15
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CutMeOwnThroatactually you'd be amazed at the age of some people you meet on irc01:29
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MohammadAGCutMeOwnThroat, elaborate :P01:32
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CutMeOwnThroatthat was it already :)01:33
DocScrutinizerwell, on people like MohammadAG I'm really amazed how reasonable they are despite their young age. Other than that I think it's hard to puzzle me on age of users01:35
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FireStorm|:( crap network.com01:36
FireStorm|MohammadAG - that sms issue is annoying01:38
FireStorm|rebooted phone, deleted contact got like 20 msgs from said contact, txt back and now seems ok but with no contact name just number.01:38
CutMeOwnThroatI'm not on irc sooo long and I've seen people of ages roughly between .. 14 and 6201:38
* MohammadAG 's 1701:38
* FireStorm| is 26 :d01:39
* CutMeOwnThroat is older than both but younger than the sum of ages01:39
CutMeOwnThroatno need to elaborate!01:39
comawhiteim 2401:40
* lcuk wonders why people use PM on christmas day for bug questions01:40
lcukhi DocScrutinizer btw01:40
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comawhitelcuk, too dumb to ask in a channel01:40
DocScrutinizerlcuk: o/01:40
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lcukcomawhite, its not even that01:41
comawhitethats why I use /mode +g blocks them from pming you01:41
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lcuknahh i tend to allow by default but i might01:41
MohammadAGblocking PMs isn't a nice thing :P01:41
comawhiteshouldn't be pmingyou for support01:42
comawhitethats why they have a channel for that stuff01:42
MohammadAGtrue, but what if you want to tell the person something that might be negative for him on a channel01:42
* DocScrutinizer moans at +o01:42
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comawhitethe big O01:43
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* FireStorm| can't stop laughing at starsky and hutch!!! it's so funny but yet so crap!01:44
DocScrutinizeractually +votriA01:44
DocScrutinizernot the big one01:44
FireStorm|any one watching the cricket?01:45
Venemo_N900good night guys01:45
CutMeOwnThroatgrasshoppers? in winter?!01:46
FireStorm|night Venemo_N90001:46
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FireStorm|haha cricket!01:46
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* timeless_mbp sighs01:46
FireStorm|also depends where in the world you are, it might not be -19 degrees like it is here :(01:46
* timeless_mbp reversed above and below :(01:46
* MohammadAG sighs with timeless_mbp 01:47
* CutMeOwnThroat maliciously reverses timeless_mbp01:47
MohammadAG3+ hours trying to get delegates working like I want them to01:47
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lcukFireStorm|, ps, read the bug report you asked me to look at, users managed to find a workaround based on the comments I was not going to read tonight01:48
FireStorm|yer i read it and tried it and it dind't work :(01:48
* timeless_mbp sighs01:48
* timeless_mbp has so many things to fix01:48
MohammadAGalterego, I broke my whole example :P01:48
* DocScrutinizer starts to get angry on src packets on his network01:48
lcuktimeless_mbp, wanna learn how to ride a unicycle with me instead?01:48
MohammadAGtext ended up over each other01:48
timeless_mbpno thanks01:48
MohammadAGlcuk, import bicycleriding01:49
lcukwhere are your broken things?01:49
timeless_mbplcuk: tiny hg repo01:49
timeless_mbpi keep forgetting to cross some en_GBs01:49
DocScrutinizerhas to be external brainfsck from a misconf'd machine on same DSL-multiplexer01:49
lcukMohammadAG, i already did bicycle riding01:49
lcukunicycle is differenter01:49
MohammadAGlcuk, import unicycleriding01:50
MohammadAGlcuk, :)01:50
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* lcuk slides over a chocolate bar to timeless_mbp 01:50
MohammadAGI lol'd
lcukwikileaks released santas naughty list didn't they :(01:52
MohammadAGlcuk, did you check if you were on it? :P01:52
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: interested in doing a new version of h-e-n next days?01:53
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lcukMohammadAG, i checked, but you and (speak of the devil) araujo were!01:54
lcukI think araujo got on it for crimes against bacon01:54
MohammadAGlcuk, *shrugs*, what did I do? :P01:54
FireStorm|hmm have they taken wikileaks down now? , i wanted to read it while at wok but "work" blocked it lol01:55
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alteregoOkay, think I've finished this run of refactoring now.01:56
* lcuk starts his01:57
DocScrutinizerWUT? crimes against bacon??01:57
alteregoI might actually be able to push this to gitorious tomorrow ^.^01:57
DocScrutinizerburn him!01:57
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lcuknahhh DocScrutinizer01:58
FireStorm|lol @ lcuk thats brillant!01:58
* lcuk nods01:59
lcuki had my fill of pigs in blankets today01:59
* lcuk considers promoting them to main meal status01:59
DocScrutinizerblankets? :-o02:00
* DocScrutinizer is cursing his strictly technical English02:01
DocScrutinizerI know what a blanket is, though02:01
DocScrutinizerjust I think it's probably not quite tasty02:01
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DocScrutinizerTHIS looks tasty02:02
alteregoWell, it all seems to be working still :)02:02
FireStorm|lol lcuk, mum managed to bur them!!!! and i made her cook some new ones!02:02
lcuktracy bought two packs a couple of weeks ago02:02
lcukbecause she knew once I saw them I would want them cooking before xmas02:03
FireStorm|ended up with proper susages and  proper bacon!!!02:03
FireStorm|haha brillant02:03
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lcukanyway, I shall go raid the fridge for some grub \o02:03
FireStorm|to be fair though it was the first time we cooked in new kitchen, all neff appliances. Induction hob, and 2 thermo somethign ovens!02:04
* DocScrutinizer frowns at the technically poor vacuum in his fridge02:04
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ??02:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, ?02:07
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: interested in doing a new version of h-e-n next days?02:07
MohammadAGSure, I should fix the open filemanager option02:08
DocScrutinizerI'd like to augment some of the scripts, and even tackle the mount issue on a root level (udev)02:08
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DocScrutinizerto start with, I have a better version of collecting dust here since weeks02:09
* MohammadAG thinks he should update git02:11
DocScrutinizerh-e-n.git -  a good plan to update that02:12
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I also have a few ideas about beautifying the GUI02:14
FireStorm|bloody wireless is so shit in this house :(02:14
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DocScrutinizerFireStorm|: check AP channel - there might be lots of collisions or noise (microwave oven etc)02:14
DocScrutinizerswitching e.g 1 -> 9 is sometimes doing miracles02:15
FireStorm|DocScrutinizer yer i know, i'm sat next ot it and it' says i got a weak signal!02:15
FireStorm|maybe time to do a firmware upgade, i think ti's about 8 years old!02:16
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, concepts with paint accepted :P02:16
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DocScrutinizererr? paint as in "our app needs more color"? or are you asking for drawings of the new GUI?02:17
FireStorm|an app that wants a gui drawn in paint is a failure!!!!!!02:17
FireStorm|paint is for when ur stuck at bored n you draw random pictures, not designing app gui's lol!02:18
DocScrutinizerpaint is for home improvement02:18
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, however you want to push your concepts :P02:18
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DocScrutinizer*ABSTRACT* descriptions. I'll compose a formula in tex02:19
DocScrutinizeror maybe I like to have a bit of fun and get my hands dirty with Qt designer and C sourcecode02:20
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DocScrutinizerthe weird thing about Qt GUI: it's really hard to publish patches for that02:21
alterego9,256 lines in Columbus.02:21
alteregoWe need moar02:21
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FireStorm|hmm bed or some GTA 402:24
* timeless_mbp curses02:25
timeless_mbpthis is so bloody annoying02:25
MohammadAGI so hate this piece of shit  8433 mohammad  20   0  304m  57m  16m S   38  1.5  12:31.21 npviewer.bin02:25
DocScrutinizerGTA04? man, there's not even been GTA03, except those 3 prototypes02:25
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: what platform are you on?02:26
DocScrutinizerwhatever npviever might be02:26
timeless_mbpthat' nppluginwrapper,02:26
timeless_mbpwhich is third party crap02:26
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, x64, ubuntu02:26
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, flash02:26
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: it's a plugin wrapper02:26
timeless_mbpfor idiots who insist on using a 64bit browser02:27
FireStorm|but i do know hwere ur coming from and red dead redeption is shit!02:27
* alterego coughs02:27
timeless_mbpbecause having wider pointers really helps w/ browser perf02:27
SpeedEvilI could believe that flash could easily use more than 4G02:28
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MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, it's not my fault the OS is x64 :P02:28
DocScrutinizerPETAbyte address range for framebuffer :-P02:28
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, well with 32 bit browser it crashes when it grows to 4G or so :-)02:28
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: it's your fault for using a 64bit browser instead of a 32bit one02:28
CutMeOwnThroatof course... only way you can address all those tons of memory that a browser needs02:28
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SpeedEvilkillall plugin-container works on 32 bit too now02:32
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FireStorm|go on the english 37 for 2 :D02:33
timeless_mbpShadowJK: seriously, it's been 9 months for the normal people who don't run alpha/beta software02:33
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timeless_mbpbut if you want to run a third party's hack w/ 64bit browsers, feel free02:34
timeless_mbpjust don't expect support from me02:34
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ShadowJKYes well, except on ARM, I haven't used 32bit browser for like 4 years or something, and before that I just didn't run flash :/02:34
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: and why again did you want to run a 64bit browser?02:34
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timeless_mbpi mean, really, did you even have 4gb of ram in 2006?02:35
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ShadowJKAt the time my distro sneakily installed it, along with npviewer thingy. Then I discovered I could have flash enabled without entire browser crashing first time I hit a flash ad banner, and fell in love :-)02:35
timeless_mbp(you do realize that your 64bit process used more ram to address the same data because you grew its pointers, right?)02:35
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comawhitehow can I test my application out without building a deb file for it (i have no idea how to write a deb file)02:37
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* alterego contemplates how to make his UI more cross platform friendly.02:37
comawhitedon't use gtk+ :P02:38
alteregoI'm using Qt already.02:38
timeless_mbpcomawhite: write the debian/<bits> anyway02:38
alteregoBut there are quite a few Maemo5 specifics.02:38
timeless_mbpyou could use MADE/MADDE02:38
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comawhitewill do02:38
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comawhitetimeless_mbp, how hard is it to write a deb?02:39
comawhitesince I use cmake02:39
timeless_mbpnot hard02:39
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alteregoI think I'll do a: columbus-mobile columbus-desktop and columbus-common.02:39
alteregoThat should cover everything.02:39
timeless_mbpit's 3 files (debian-binary, data.tar.gz, control.tar.gz)02:39
timeless_mbp(or something like that)02:39
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ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, what about 64bit flash and 64bit browser, does that also go through new plugin-container thing?02:42
comawhitetimeless_mbp, found this:
timeless_mbpShadowJK: there's no currently supported 64bit flash, but yes, it would02:42
ShadowJKgetting 32bit versions of all the libraries needed for firefox and flash sounds kinda daunting :-)02:43
timeless_mbpShadowJK: it really shouldn't be that bad02:44
timeless_mbpotoh, it might be02:44
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timeless_mbpit kinda depends on how lame your platform is :)02:45
timeless_mbp(windows just sprinkles magic wow64 pixie dust around)02:45
alteregog'night folks02:45
ShadowJKit'd be cool if middle click or open in new tab opened up new tab, but didn't actually start loading it until you pressed a "do it" button, at which point it'd load all the newly opened tabs with the pages you wanted.. So then you could queue up a bunch of websites, go do something else, and come back and read it all in one go without waiting in between :-)02:47
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timeless_mbp"add bookmark"? :)02:47
ShadowJKBut you still have like 5 minutes in total of loading time02:48
timeless_mbpyou can ask the browser to open all bookmarks from a folder as tabs...02:48
ShadowJKOh :-)02:48
ShadowJKcan fennec do this too?02:49
timeless_mbpi don't think fennec includes a foot gun02:49
timeless_mbpbut you can probably buy one separately or build one yourself02:49
* timeless_mbp could be wrong02:49
ShadowJKmicrob is pretty good at "reading web forums" case :-)02:49
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lcukShadowJK, hm02:54
lcukyou mean an option like "do not load new tabs until activated"02:54
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ShadowJKno I mean a way to postpone actually loading tabs, so that the page you are opening them from stays responsive02:55
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lcukstaying on current page just prepares it02:55
ShadowJKlike when I read a forum, I don't want to click an individual thread, wait 30 seconds for it to load, read it, click back, wait 30 seconds for index to load, etc02:55
lcukwithout actually contacting site02:55
lcukuntil you change to the tab02:55
ShadowJKI want to pick threads of interest, and I want those to be loaded in batch while I'm doing something else, so that I can read them all without load times in between02:56
ShadowJKand then go to the next page of the index, and repeat02:56
lcukthats middle click02:56
lcukat least desktopish02:56
ShadowJKYeah I just noticed that in fennec the tab with the "index page" i'm opening the tabs from slows down and becomes somewhat unusable until the newly opened tab has finished downloading02:57
ShadowJKwhich makes it mostly equivalent to visiting the thread without opening new tab02:57
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DocScrutinizerscrew forum02:58
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lcukShadowJK, right02:58
lcukso giving uber priority to focused tab02:58
lcukyou dont leave that tab02:58
lcukthe others dont get to make connections02:58
ShadowJKI guess I could iptables block all traffic while reading the index page :)02:59
DocScrutinizerprobably wget is the only tool to somehow cope with forum PITA02:59
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DocScrutinizera synthesis of wget and rsync :-D03:00
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MohammadAGalterego, ping03:19
MohammadAGor actually anyone who can guess font sizes easily :P03:19
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DocScrutinizer51you don't need to guess - 72PT are one inch03:32
DocScrutinizer51unless your screen is massively misconfigured or cheating, like maemo N900 screen obviously is03:34
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DocScrutinizer51s/y is/y doesv03:36
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DocScrutinizer51well, I guess owning a tesla doesn't magically improve your skills. Even less those of other crash dummies03:39
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GeneralAntilles1DocScrutinizer51: a vanity plate like that does make you look like a fool, though.03:43
DocScrutinizer51tesla however is really cool. I'd love to paricipate in development03:43
DocScrutinizer51err I didn't notice. what's it been?03:44
GeneralAntilles1"85 MPG"03:44
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DocScrutinizer51too much native background needed03:45
nox-`miles per gallon'03:45
GeneralAntillesYeah, he's bragging about the fuel economy rating of his $100k car.03:46
GeneralAntillesGood day to carry the camera.03:46
DocScrutinizer51while that's a BS bogus value anyway03:47
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DocScrutinizer51he could as well mention miles / mg plutonium or rats/day03:48
GeneralAntillesThus the irony increases.03:49
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DocScrutinizer51actually CO2/mile is a meaningful unit03:51
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DocScrutinizer51including that from TCO / manufacturing / recycling / etc03:52
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: no MWKN this week?03:52
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, Saturday.03:53
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DocScrutinizer51yeah today is saturday. in 2 days ther's logical MWKN day03:54
GeneralAntillesI'm assuming Jaffa's still going to send me an Etherpad link sometime tomorrow afternoon.03:54
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DocScrutinizer51he said he thinks it won't publish this time03:55
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51: oh?03:57
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DocScrutinizer51check backscroll or log03:58
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51: ah, see it.04:01
GeneralAntillesI can't say I'd mind. Working again tomorrow.04:01
MohammadAGwhy does one get more progress in coding at 4 AM?04:03
DocScrutinizer51meh. ctl-F on microb needs setting focus to the irclog input field to actually jump to the first match :-/04:04
MohammadAGI managed to botch up fapman to make it show a list (that I'll just copy to the mediaplayer - just using fapman for testing purposes so I don't ruin my code :P)
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MohammadAGwhich seems kinda broken, for now, but it's fun :D04:04
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DocScrutinizer51ctl-F search in microb is completely broken04:13
DocScrutinizer51I wonder how this ever made it beyond QA04:13
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DocScrutinizer51sometimes it works for repeated search by simply hitting CR. Usually it needs some scrolling or even setting focus to some input field of page to find first occurance. next occurance is almost impossible to jump to04:18
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp: ^^^04:18
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timeless_mbpyeah well04:18
timeless_mbpsearching is hard04:18
timeless_mbpand i'm not sure there was any qa done on it04:18
nox-oh wow and i thought that was a `only me' bug...04:19
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timeless_mbpwe mostly ignored the fact that it wasn't great04:19
DocScrutinizer51any hints how to work around?04:19
timeless_mbpi know i experienced it internally04:19
timeless_mbpum, i think you've found the major workaround04:19
nox-i think that was one of the reasons i tried fennec... :/04:19
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nox-(which as someone else put it, `eats ram like candy' ):04:20
timeless_mbpcandy sounds yummy04:20
* timeless_mbp stares at a failed merge and cries04:20
DocScrutinizer51ooh, did I mention that zooming makes hit located somewhere outside viewport?04:20
* timeless_mbp asks DocScrutinizer51 to rephrase that in English04:21
Psianyone know if there is an app to stream the desktop to a upnp dlna server over n900 wifi?04:22
DocScrutinizer51on a zoomed page, *if* search actually scrolls, then to a location quite offset to real match location04:22
* timeless_mbp tries to decide if is spam04:23
timeless_mbpPsi: you want to replace VNC with DLNA?04:23
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Psiyeah, pretty much04:23
Psijust an idea04:23
MohammadAGYAY finally! :D04:23
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timeless_mbp ?04:23
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: what is that?04:24
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, the mediaplayer rewrite, or the testing base for the list (fapman in this case)04:24
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: can you replace the title and status lines? :)04:24
timeless_mbp"Select packages", "0 package(s) marked",...04:25
timeless_mbpkinda confusing =b04:25
MohammadAGthose are fapman's04:25
MohammadAGas you can see, this list's missing the artist/album info, as well as song length
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: btw, are you borrowing strings or using your own?04:26
timeless_mbpi dropped 'Now playing' from my localization04:26
MohammadAGUsing my own, chances are the strings will be replaced when the package mediaplayer is removed04:27
MohammadAGunless I'm mistaken, then that can easily be fixed04:27
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* timeless_mbp goes back to merging04:27
DassuBtw, does anybody know of alternative for gecko-mediaplayer-plugin for the maemo 5?04:27
MohammadAGbut it's translatable ;)04:27
MohammadAGnot me, sorry04:27
Dassuworking gecko-mediaplayer-plugin would be cool but it would require all those gnome libaries04:27
timeless_mbpDassu: what's the use case?04:28
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, are the strings (.mo files) part of the mediaplayer package?04:29
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: they're part of -l10n- packages04:29
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, so if I remove the mediaplayer package, they'd stay there?04:29
timeless_mbpdo you clean up orphans?04:30
MohammadAGnot really04:30
timeless_mbpthen yeah. they should survive04:30
timeless_mbpbut beware04:30
timeless_mbpmy localization changes their strings04:30
timeless_mbpso it isn't a good idea to assume a given string04:30
* timeless_mbp goes back to being confused by a merge04:31
DocScrutinizer51microb is closed?04:31
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer51: the ui is closed04:31
DocScrutinizer51hmm, wonder if that's blocking debugging of search function04:32
* timeless_mbp shrugs04:32
timeless_mbpprobably not04:32
timeless_mbpthe ui is rather trivial04:32
timeless_mbpit more or less just calls verbs04:32
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timeless_mbpthere's also an eal-test app somewhere04:33
Dassutimeless_mbp: I like to use greasemonkey script that replaces flash-player with embedded video.04:35
timeless_mbpDassu: hrm, ok, why? :)04:36
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Dassutimeless_mbp: because flash is unnecessarily heavy for video04:45
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timeless_mbpDassu: you have numbers to support this?04:46
DassuYou dont need numbers. It is that obvious04:47
DassuJust try out Flash on any linux based system and then try same video with gecko-mediaplayer-plugin04:49
DassuIt is true that flash is quite light on windows but on the Linux that's a whole other story04:49
nox-does flash on n900 use dsp for video?04:49
SpeedEvilmplayer on n900 plays flash videos that flash plays at 2-4fps or so, at 100fps04:49
nox-haha ok04:51
SpeedEvilThis was of course just one test - but...04:51
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nox-well it shows a trend at least :)04:52
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* MohammadAG can actually flip between windows while playing a higher quality flash video (360p) with mplayer than with (240p)04:53
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timeless_mbpDassu: most linux distributions don't have source code access to flash04:56
timeless_mbpand don't spend a year trying to optimize it for a single hardware paltform04:56
SpeedEvilFlash can be surprisingly good in some cases on n90004:57
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Dassutimeless_mbp: there is no source code for flash at all...04:59
timeless_mbpDassu: um04:59
Dassuit is close source04:59
* timeless_mbp ponders05:00
SpeedEvilAdobe clearly does spend time optimising it for windows though.05:00
timeless_mbpDassu: where do you think binaries come from?05:00
timeless_mbpsanta claus?05:00
Dassutimeless_mbp: aargh, dude I meant that the source code is not publicly available05:00
Dassutimeless_mbp: the binaries came from adobe05:01
timeless_mbpDassu: ok05:01
timeless_mbpthe binaries came from nokia05:01
timeless_mbpbecause *we* paid for source access05:01
timeless_mbpso we could pay *our* team to optimize it05:01
DassuCan I have a source for that?05:03
timeless_mbpif you pay us a couple of million dollars, perhaps05:03
timeless_mbpbut you'll probably get it cheaper if you offer those millions of dollars to adobe..05:03
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timeless_mbpoh, you mean "someone to confirm that i'm not lying"?05:03
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luke-jrDassu: timeless_mbp is an official Nokia employee that worked on the browser05:04
Dassuoh oke05:04
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: which I must say is actually probably one of the best parts of Maemo 505:04
luke-jrafter using it more than I used to05:04
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luke-jr'best' as in 'impressively stable and standards implementing"05:04
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SpeedEvilbrowser is good05:05
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Psianyone know of a trick to using google maps on the nokia browser, is there anyway to scroll the map other than the little touch arrow buttons that jump half the map at a time?05:05
SpeedEvilyou know how to enable 'pointer mode' ?05:05
Psiive seen that pointer mode in the terminal app05:06
Psilooked for it in browser but didnt find it05:06
Psibut yeah, thats what i want, how do you get it in the browser?05:06
timeless_mbpPsi: you haven't learned how to use the browser yet :)05:06
timeless_mbpyou're missing most of its power05:06
Psiyeah, i figured there was a way05:07
SpeedEvilslife finger into left of screen, about a quarter up05:07
luke-jrbetter question is how to zoom Google Maps mobile05:07
SpeedEvilthen tap on that -> icon05:07
timeless_mbpluke-jr: that's a good question05:07
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timeless_mbpluke-jr: from memory you can sometimes double tap to zoom05:07
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timeless_mbpfor zooming out you can search for something on another scale05:07
timeless_mbp(totally lame on both counts, better answers more than welcome)05:08
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: double-tap does a MicroB-zoom05:09
timeless_mbpluke-jr: it shouldn't if you're in interactive mode..05:09
timeless_mbp(see lesson psi is supposed to be learning..)05:10
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Psiyeah, thanks05:10
Psifound it05:10
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Psiare there any other hidden buttons?05:10
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timeless_mbpPsi: that's the main hidden item in the browser05:11
timeless_mbp(other than about:config)05:11
timeless_mbpthere was actually video lectures for the n90005:11
infobottimeless_mbp meant: there were actually video lectures for the n90005:11
Psiany useful settings in about:config05:11
timeless_mbp(it was designed to be a series)05:11
timeless_mbpfor the most part we like to think that the settings are tuned reasonably well05:12
Psiexcellent, the pointer mode also fixed a problem i was having on another website05:13
SpeedEvilI would love to see numbers on how many people that are moving on from the n900 diddn't find the little pointer05:13
Psithat was really the only thing annoying me about the browser, its awesomely done05:13
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: most of them i'd bet05:15
timeless_mbpi want to strangle the UI designers and the PM05:15
PsiSpeedEvil: yeah05:15
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: the modes were supposed to be introduced by the browser home page05:15
timeless_mbpfailing to do that more or less ensured that most people wouldn't discover it05:15
SpeedEvilthen someone decided to nuke the homepage?05:16
Psii find it unususal that ive never found it by accident05:16
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: i don't remember exactly what happened05:16
timeless_mbpbut there definitely was a  plan/proposal to have it explained in the initial page05:17
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: sadly, we get no credit for thinking about it05:17
timeless_mbpand along comes fennec which does it right05:17
timeless_mbp(their state page for a while had drag hints to show off the two side bars)05:17
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Psistill not heard back from rovio about the angry birds bug i found05:18
Psiguess they are pretty busy05:18
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timeless_mbpyou broke angry birds?05:18
Psiwell i finished all the free levels with 3 stars and noticed i could play the locked levels even tho there was no data for them.  It loads an empty level, says youve won it 2 sec later then locks up05:19
Psithen you run the game again and you can click the next level you dont have :P05:20
Psihere, i took a pic
* lcuk thinks the next level pack will have a Psi pig in it05:21
Psihere is what a level looks like when there is no data for it,  i guess the slingshot loads at point 0,0 which is inside the gound :P
SpeedEvilI ***'d all of the paid levels, then was going for ****05:23
SpeedEvil(*** it, then get a significantly better score)05:23
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SpeedEvilSome of them are bastards05:23
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Psithe last free level took me ages to get on 3 star05:23
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Psiim not sure what triggered the first nonfree level to unlock05:24
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* SpeedEvil wonders why xchat run on n900 displaying on the desktop has no input box.05:33
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Psianyone know what components are inside the n900 tvout cable?05:36
lcukmetal wire afaik05:36
* nox- suspects composite05:36
SpeedEvilPsi: gerbils05:36
lcukoccasionally theres some electrons05:36
SpeedEvilPsi: It's just a simple cable - there is a complex DAC and colour encoder in the SoC05:37
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SpeedEvilIn principe it can do quite high-res over sync-on-green monitors05:37
Psiso no little pcb in that 1-3 cable plastic lump05:37
* timeless_mbp prefers lemmings over gerbils05:39
MohammadAG :D05:40
nox-SpeedEvil, oh its somethine else than composite video?05:41
Psiso it detects its a tvout cable and not headphones just from the load resistance of speakers or 05:41
SpeedEvilnox-: No, it's just composite video05:42
Psi.... or 75 ohm video05:42
SpeedEvilPsi: it detects a 75 ohm or lower load on video out05:42
Psimakes sense05:42
SpeedEvilIf you want to drive a audio line-in, you can short tvout with a paperclip05:42
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timeless_mbpnox-: *rotfl*05:48
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timeless_mbpanyone here use MfE?05:54
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* nox- <3 mutt05:57
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* timeless_mbp gets totally confused06:09
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nox-timeless_mbp, i dont use exchange :)06:19
nox-sorry if that wasnt obvious...06:19
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daxtDoes anybody use Recaller here ?06:34
Psii do06:35
Psiit seems to work fine, i have a folder of all my calls06:35
daxtPsi how did u configure it to record calls ?06:35
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* Psi looks06:35
daxti notice that Recaller slows my N900 :(06:35
Psiin the options i have it set to autorecord06:36
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Psisource=phone and format=aac06:36
daxtmy settings are the same06:36
daxtyet Phone gets horribly slower06:36
Psionce i accidently clicked record and it was running for a day or something :P06:37
Psihad a 1GB file06:37
daxtstorage space is not an issue since we have 32 GB ;)06:37
Psidaxt: how slow is slow?06:37
daxti tried to uninstall Recaller , and uninstaller in the App manager took around 5 minutes to appear06:38
daxtthat is way too slow06:38
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Psiyou mean its slow to browse packages?06:38
Psii get that on all packages, the whole package app is slow06:38
Psii didnt think it was anything to do with recaller06:39
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Psianyone without recaller and who's never installed it care to tell use if your package manager is really slow to download the package list and display anything06:41
daxtit was package manager slow because recaller was running06:42
Psirunning as in recording or just active in memory?06:42
daxtand when i stopped the recaller deamon , package manager works fine06:42
daxtrunning in recording06:42
daxtprobably due to AAC codec  , which eats alot of CPU ?06:42
Psiwhy are you trying to install packages while on the phone?06:43
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daxti was unable to do kill PID06:43
daxtcoz system was that slow06:43
daxtPsi  i guess i shud change the codec  and experiment with it06:44
daxtFLAC would be nice option06:44
Psiit stops itself once your call ends06:45
Psii dont see how/why you are using the package manager while on a phonecall06:45
daxtno no no06:46
daxtnot while on the phone call06:46
daxtwhenever i click on something recaller start to record06:46
daxtthat is another prob i have06:46
Psiwhat do you mean "click on something"?06:47
daxtlets say i change the profile06:47
daxtto silent mode06:47
daxtrecaller start recording06:47
Psiso the icon changes to green?06:47
* Psi puts his phone into silent mode06:48
daxtall i want recaller is to record my calls06:48
Psijust put my phone to silent and recaller did nothing, still red06:48
Psiso it looks like yours is currupt or something06:48
daxtwhat is the version u have ?06:49
Psiof recaller or phone os?06:49
daxtdid u install it via apt-get or installer script ?06:49
daxtmaemo v and recaller v06:49
Psirecaller 2.106:49
daxtHow did u install it ?06:50
daxtvia apt-get or installer script ?06:50
Psiphone maemo 5 version 20.2010.36-2.00206:50
daxtPsi how did u install it ?06:51
Psiim not sure06:52
Psibut i think it was through the package manager06:52
daxti installed via installer script06:52
daxtits where i have gone wrong i guess06:52
daxtlet me follow your way06:52
Psitried to kill it with a -9 ?06:53
Psibut yeah, remove it and install from package manager and try that06:54
Psiim pretty sure i first came across the app when browsing the apps in the package manager and installed it from there06:54
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daxtPsi what is the repository which Recaller is contained06:56
* Psi looks06:56
* Psi waits while app manager loads the list06:56
Psithis will take a minute06:56
Psior 206:57
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daxtits recaller 2.106:59
Psihm.. i cant tell07:00
Psiit doesnt show up because i have it installed already07:00
Psii can tell you what repos i have setuo07:01
daxtmaemo 5 20.2010.
daxtis this the same as yours ?07:03
psycho_oreostoo many dots but I would say the same except installed different locality07:03
Psinokia applications / noki asystem software update / ovi / / mozilla multi catalog / tools / extra-devel / extra-testing /07:03
Psiyeah, i dunno what the end part of the version number means07:04
daxtpsycho_oreos  of course i am from south asia :)07:04
psycho_oreosvarious releases, indian release, south africa, USA, asia, etc07:04
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psycho_oreosits pretty well documented on the I think for firmware downloads07:05
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psycho_oreosotherwise both of you are running the same base version, PR1.307:06
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daxti close to FLAC codec on the Recaller and now System seems to be fast but 1.01 minute file is 3.4 mb07:08
psycho_oreosand you have a newer version Psi for recaller, most likely because you have enabled extras-devel/extras-testing, my recaller version states 2.007:08
daxtunusual ?07:08
psycho_oreosdaxt, not sure07:09
daxtnow the system responsiveness is much better07:09
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psycho_oreosI'd probably check the recording to see if it works or its corrupt07:10
Psiyeah, i probably should turn off extra-devel07:10
Psinever had a prob yet tho07:11
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daxtPsi what do u think about FLAC over AAC ?07:11
psycho_oreosnot an ideal thing as you are grabbing the bleeding edge stuff but if you really wanted to be on the bleeding edge or have you device deliberately set that way then you can leave it on07:11
Psidaxt: never really thought about it07:12
PsiAAC seems fine07:12
daxtya but it eats alot of CPU07:12
Psicant say ive noticed07:12
Psibecause when its recording im on a call07:12
psycho_oreosFLAC is free/open, AAC remains mostly part of Apple07:13
daxttry to record while your not on call by clicking on record button07:13
daxtand see how the system responds07:13
daxtthen u shud be able to notice07:13
daxtFLAC is the new mp3 :)07:13
psycho_oreosnot to many however who still thinks mp3 is a widely used format despite the lawsuits07:14
daxttime to switch to FLAC07:14
Psiseems fine07:15
Psimaybe a little slower07:15
Psibut not enough to really notice07:15
lolloois there battlefiled badcompany2 stats widget for N900?07:15
lollooanyone know a ventrilo client for N900?07:15
Psifine was 1MB and i had it recording for about 1min07:16
Psiwasnt talking or anything tho, just background music07:16
Psithe biggest aac file i have in the folder is 10MB07:16
Psideleted that 1GB one i accidently made when i left it on :P07:17
Psigunna install the overclocked kernel in a month when my warrenty expires07:17
Psithat should be fun07:17
psycho_oreosmy biggest aac is 511MB, I've used aac recording at the time because I couldn't get media player on n900 to play flac files (little did I know I was missing ogg support at the time hence that's why its not working)07:19
Psiive still not bothered to buy a usdcard for my n90007:20
Psionboard 32gb is awesome07:20
psycho_oreosneither have I07:20
psycho_oreoslol I'll get another 32 or so GB class 6 or better microSD once it comes out and the prices becomes cheaper07:21
daxtwhy do u need another sdcard when u have 32 gb ????07:22
psycho_oreosthe need for ext2/3 type storage is much more ideal to work with rather than meddling with fat3207:22
psycho_oreosand plus it isn't true 32GB, its 29GB when its shared with /home anyway07:22
psycho_oreos /home and swap07:23
daxtwell even 29 GB is more than enuf07:23
daxtu r not shooting porn videos , r u ?07:24
psycho_oreosyeah but the fat32 doesn't really honour linux attributes well07:24
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psycho_oreoslol does that matter? :) in the very least when and if I get my own microSD I can then install android port, meego, etc which by then it should be all stable.. and store files in which I can meddle with the attributes in full rather than having to make do with fat3207:25
daxtis there a way to make the onboard one ext3 ?07:26
daxtguys i got another issue , when ever i changes the battery , N900 forgets it's current time07:29
daxtis there a way to fix it ?07:29
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lolloothis will fix it07:55
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daxt_guys time in my N900 does not get synced , what could be the issue , any console command to make it happen ?08:34
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lcukinstall network time thingy08:38
lcuk> ntpd -s08:39
lcukis what I run on my desktop to sync clock, afaik its same on n90008:39
daxt_thanks lcuk08:40
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daxt_great , it worked !!!!08:44
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Termanagood morning08:57
xDaReaperxNo one responds at #nitdroid09:00
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lollooits sunday!09:38
lolloowhat do you think?09:38
lolloook am out! laters! awesome sunnyday today!09:39
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bluenemohi guys. i was wondering how close the n900 was to the openmoko. my questions were if i could 1: remove maemo overall for debian and 2: install maemo in LVM2 with dm_crypt11:13
psycho_oreosI don't have openmoko to test but I wouldn't say that it would be all that close, n900 has lots of proprietary blobs11:14
psycho_oreosunless you want to start re-adopting stuff that were later ported to meego which is more open source in some retrospects to get them back onto debian.. lots of messing around imo and meego is still very much WIP11:15
petteridebian on n900:
bluenemoi dont think i quite get it :) is meego now the choice for the n900?11:17
bluenemocool meego uses btrfs :) that rocks@!11:19
psycho_oreosmaemo contains proprietary components, some of which actually utilise hardware functionality of the n900. Without proprietary components n900 would not function as it is such as phone calling.. meego is where there's community devs from maemo working to make meego work on n900 by creating open codes so that there's no proprietary components and all that jazz.. however because the individual components that were made open on meego won't necessarily work for11:20
psycho_oreosdebian or whatever other distro you want to install so then it needs to be ported from that to make it work with the distro you choose11:20
bluenemohm ok i c11:21
psycho_oreosbut meego and meego porting to n900 are both works in progress, so they are not complete and expect things to crash.. even when you make debian to work with those once proprietary codes for the various built-in chips on n90011:21
bluenemohm ok.. well i'd wouldnt hurt me to have a few properitery stuff running on it.. whats improtant for me is that i can crypt it right.. how far do i have access to the internal 32gb? can i make them appear like, say /dev/sdX ?11:24
bluenemois it shown like that on the devices cmd line or when i attach it via usb?11:26
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psycho_oreosthe proprietary components won't work with other distribution without being ported and porting requires source code plus knowledge to be able to hack to make it work11:27
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bluenemohm yes i know. i thought about just using both, debian and maemo, booting whatever whenever i need it11:27
bluenemobut most importantly, both needs to be in LVM2 and dm_crypt11:28
psycho_oreosbluenemo, the link petteri mentioned on the front page pretty much describes what happens when you try installing debian on n900, no phone calling capability because the driver is proprietary11:28
ShadowJKMeeGo is using oFono for calls, and I think that's open. Atleast jebba made phonecalls in, I think, Fedora on N900 using it..11:29
ShadowJKprobably no UI exists though :)11:29
bluenemothe debian wouldnt need to support phone calling for me, i'd need umts and wlan basicly..11:30
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psycho_oreosno idea on umts but I suspect it may be closely related to the phone functionality11:41
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bluenemocan i access the NAND only via this flasher tool?11:44
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ShadowJKI wouldn't write to it manually from N900, if that's what you're asking.11:46
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ShadowJKIt's not a block device and shouldn't be treated as such11:48
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bluenemoShadowJK and others, thank you a lot for your help. i'm not quite shure if i should buy it..11:58
bluenemoit seems fun so far if your not a total linux freak.. i think using it and staying normal user with maemo is fun, but developing for it i'm not shure..11:59
* trumee thinks his headache might be due to squinting at the small N900 screen12:01
bluenemolol :) trumee i thought there were some x11vnc capabilitys and stuff?12:02
trumeeEasier to use N900 in bed than a laptop :)12:03
bluenemohas nobody ever tried LVM and dm_crypt? basicly thats the most important thing for me..12:03
trumeeBut increasing the xchat font has helped a bit.12:03
bluenemotrumee, lol :)12:03
bluenemoi like using my t60p in bed :)12:03
ShadowJKN810 was better for that, bigger screen :)12:04
bluenemoi mean the NAND wouldnt be crypted of course... kernel and grub is not crypted normaly as well (as you couldnt decrypt it then ;) but the rest has to be..12:05
ShadowJKthe nand isn't a normal block device, and ubifs doesn't work on block devices12:06
ShadowJKlvm deals with block devices12:06
bluenemoi know, i wont want to crypt the nand, only everything else12:07
ShadowJKI'd just run stuff from a microsd card and keep the nand mostly untouched with a "backup" os dulboot style12:07
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bluenemobut i cant crypt maemo, can I ?12:07
ShadowJKWell, /home is ext3 so it would be possible12:08
ShadowJKhowever, fitting it into the init scripts would be "interesting" :)12:08
bluenemolol :)12:08
bluenemohow many partitions are there normally?12:09
ShadowJK3 on the emmc12:09
ShadowJK768M swap, 2gig /home and /opt, fat32 for the rest of the 32g12:09
ShadowJKemmc = integrated 32gigabyte (marketing bytes) mmc12:10
bluenemomarketing bytes :D12:11
ShadowJK32 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000 bytes :)12:12
keriothey call it SI12:12
bluenemoand maemo is installed by say dd an image to the device? or is it like installing a 'normal' linux (from a cd ur usb boot stick or sth)?12:13
bluenemour = or12:14
ShadowJKkinda like dd12:14
kerionever dd a NAND12:14
ShadowJKactual real dd is a bad idea to use on nand, it might accidentally work on some devices but will fuck up on others12:15
Venemoit's a bit more than dd afaik. eg. the flasher tool can account for errornous sectors and such.12:15
Venemoyou'd need to ask DocScrutinizer, he knows more about this12:15
bluenemook thank you guys12:15
bluenemoi saw this youtube vid where a guy told about maemo running debian in a vm.. can maemo run vm's?12:16
ShadowJKhe meant chroot12:16
bluenemook thought so12:17
bluenemowould be fun with 600mhz arm xD12:17
bluenemohm well well. i think if i dont want to only develop i'd have to use maemo.. but as I have customer information i cant afford not to run around with it crypted..12:18
bluenemoi'd be interested in developing as well, also i dont very much appreciate properitary 'traps'..12:19
ShadowJKWell you probably need quite some devloper skills to get encryption setup anyway12:20
bluenemoon maemo yes, shure12:20
bluenemoi read meego uses btrfs.. that supports encryption as well. do you know anything about meego and crypt?12:21
Venemobluenemo: ask that on #meego12:22
bluenemobtrfs is sooo cool btw :)12:22
bluenemook i'll do that yes12:22
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bluenemoShadowJK, about the partitions: you said /home is ext3, what about /opt (and what is /opt for overall?)? where is the rest of the 32gb mounted? does it have to be fat32?12:26
bluenemogoogeled for /opt, seems obsolete.. you propably didnt meant that /opt has a own partition, did you?12:31
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bluenemois that info correct? /home (2G)   and   /home/user/MyDocs (27G)12:33
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: thinking of putting a message up saying "no MWKN cos of Xmas holidays"12:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: i.e. no issue today12:47
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RobbieThe1stbluenemo: /opt is essentially symlinked to /home/opt, on the /home partition12:55
bluenemook thx12:55
RobbieThe1stbluenemo: And most 3rd-party apps should be stuck in there, because Nokia didn't just symlink /usr/share etc...12:56
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alteregoA qml text rpg game ..12:58
alteregoSeems ironic somehow.12:58
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ShadowJKbluenemo, maemo doesn't like it if MyDocs isn't vfat/fat3213:05
keriothat's why you make it a 200mb partition13:07
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bluenemook thanks for the advice guys. the meego guys send me a link where ppl crypted /home and the /home/foo (28gb)13:08
trumeeanything interesting out there in Boxing day sale?13:08
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* trumee would like to buy a dockstar or another joggler if on sale13:09
timeless_mbpbluenemo: fwiw vmware demo'd using an n800 for virtualization13:10
timeless_mbpso it's technically possib13:10
keriodockstars are like 25$13:10
kerioyou cheapskate13:11
trumeekerio, not in UK, go for about £4013:11
kerio(they also suck, buy a sheevaplug)13:11
trumeekerio, i thought they were based on sheevaplug13:11
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trumeethey have more usb ports than sheevaplug13:12
kerioand less ram13:12
kerioand no jtag/serial13:12
kerioand you know how sheevaplugs always have troubles booting from usb? that's still there13:12
kerioexcept that booting from usb is pretty much your only option13:12
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keriobecause there's no jtag/serial so if you fuck up the flashing you bricked it13:13
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kerio(that can be solved if you build a serial port though, the pins are still there)13:13
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bluenemogoodbye guys, thanks a lot for your help and merry xmas13:17
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* timeless_mbp tries to pull a Mer out of a hat13:24
alteregoIs that a Christmas joke? :P13:25
xDaReaperxlaugh ppl13:29
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alteregoNote to self, "Stop reading stupid tmo threads about MeeGo and Nokia Dali device"13:45
RobbieThe1stDali device?13:46
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alteregoDon't ask.13:47
alteregoIt's supposed to be the codename of the N900 successor.13:47
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alteregoWe _know_ as much about it as we knew about the N900 when it was called "Rover".13:48
alteregoPeople should stop guessing and making stupid assumptions. It spreads FUD and tends to make everyone look like idiots.13:48
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saLOUtdoes the n900 support turn-by-turn navigation with ovi maps?14:03
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alteregoCool, my app can be promoted to extras now :D14:06
RST38hNo customizable desktop and no Flash in N9? =)14:06
alteregoRST38h: bullcrap :P14:06
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* RST38h especially liked "And as long as our development environment is impossible14:07
RST38hto use (the new security framework can hopefully be disabled) we won't14:07
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RST38hget apps eithere."14:08
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alteregoI just think it's pointless guessing all the time.14:11
alteregoAnd it just makes otherwise seemingly reasonible and intelligent people come across as just as idiotic as the kiddiots that talk there :/14:11
RST38halterego: I think you are missing the point. Look at guy's email address.14:12
alteregoYou mean the meego list ?14:13
TermanaWho cares what Nokia does aren't we all going iPhone and Android anyway?14:13
Termana.... Anyone?14:13
saLOUtalterego: does the n900 support turn-by-turn navigation with ovi maps?14:14
alteregoBut not voice guidance14:15
saLOUtalterego: thx14:15
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iliusi'm looking for a good music player that could play FOLDERS as playlist (musics without tags and ID3)15:04
iliusMadiaBox was good before the recent new version!15:05
iliusand Canola seems to run only in full screen mode15:06
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RST38hFixed MSlugX at the cost of hacking it.15:16
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linglinghi all. have a small problem with installing new nitdroid:when mount /dev/mmcblk1p2 /and it says: "mounting.... failed: no such file or directory"  any solution?15:22
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iliusany suggestion for a good music player?15:37
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Loomany1 knows in which folder the shortcuts for the deskop are ?15:55
Loomi had made a shortcut and the icon disapeared when i rebooted15:56
Loomand now it doesn't let me make it again15:56
trumeeilius, mplayer?15:57
Loomfor the transmission it was15:58
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iliustrumee: command line?16:00
iliustrumee: and where is the package?16:00
trumeeilius, apt-get install mplayer16:01
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timeless_mbptrumee: did i ever get you to test my packages?16:11
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* timeless_mbp finally got around to making an update16:12
trumeetimeless_mbp, what packages?16:13
anthonieHello all, anyone here tried Kubuntu Maverick? Looking for some pointers to boot it from SD16:13
timeless_mbptrumee: alternate en-* locales16:13
trumeetimeless_mbp, do i need them?16:13
timeless_mbptrumee: if you aren't using en-US/en-GB as a UI language then they won't do much16:13
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timeless_mbpbut otherwise, you're welcome to try them16:14
* Trizt likes timeless_mbp GB localisation16:14
timeless_mbpTrizt: wanna try an update?16:14
trumeetimeless_mbp, i am using en-GB. But what is the advantage of using your packages?16:15
timeless_mbptrumee: non crappy English16:15
trumeedoes it fix dictionary or something. or changes the UI?16:16
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* timeless_mbp sighs16:18
* timeless_mbp finally finds the widget to silence this new n90016:18
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xDaReaperxHymn Awash16:19
* timeless_mbp has a set of n900s for testing :)16:19
timeless_mbp:(, what's my wifi password? :)16:19
xDaReaperxhow many ?16:19
timeless_mbphrm, two on my chest, one on the table16:21
* timeless_mbp will probably return one tomorrow16:21
xDaReaperxyou have nitdroid installed ?16:21
timeless_mbpnot yet, but i have a brand new 8gb uSD card sent to me from ca.us16:22
timeless_mbpso i could install it there :)16:22
trumeetimeless_mbp, do i need a restart?16:23
timeless_mbptrumee: not really16:23
timeless_mbpif the screen sorta collapsed, then it did most of the changes already16:23
xDaReaperxi think it's better to install it on eMMC16:23
xDaReaperxits faster on eMMC , after all you can also OC it16:24
timeless_mbpthere are a couple of stragglers (browser) which you'd have to kill16:24
timeless_mbpxDaReaperx: i'm not really worried about perf16:24
trumeetimeless_mbp, any place obvious where i should see the UI change?16:24
timeless_mbptrumee: did the ui collapse?16:24
timeless_mbpif not, you probably are using the other english and didn't realize it :)16:24
timeless_mbpbut the launcher is the obvious place16:24
trumeetimeless_mbp, didn't notice it16:25
timeless_mbpcheck control panel and verify which locale you're using16:25
trumeetimeless_mbp, ok i see an extra British English icon in the control panel.16:27
timeless_mbptrumee: right, but open the normal language thing16:27
timeless_mbpdoes it say you're using british or american?16:27
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timeless_mbpif you're using american, then you'd need to install american (or switch to british using the normal picker)16:27
trumeesays English(UK)16:27
timeless_mbpwell, go to the launcher16:28
timeless_mbpwhat do you see as the label for the globe?16:28
timeless_mbpdo you remember what it used to say?16:28
trumeeno :(16:28
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timeless_mbp(you can switch back to nokia strings using the 'british english' control panel item)16:29
trumeeah. Ok it changed from Web to Browser. ok got ya!16:31
timeless_mbptrumee: yep16:31
alteregoDo you need bug tracking fields in library packages?16:31
timeless_mbpalterego: it'd be nice to have them16:32
timeless_mbpQt is buggy16:32
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timeless_mbpGStreamer and gstreamer components are buggy16:32
alteregoJust wondering if it's a packaging requirement for promotion of libs along with my package.16:32
MohammadAGusers are buggy16:32
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: those too, yes16:32
alteregoEach user should come with a bug tracking field? :D16:33
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MohammadAGalterego, they're probably be WONTFIX'd :P16:34
* RST38h moos evilly16:34
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RST38halterego: Just have a click-through licensing agreement where user promises to shut up and not complain about any "issues" he finds with your app.16:37
alteregoI like that16:37
RST38hDon't forget to include "accidental loss of family members" and "dementia" on the list of issues covered16:38
luke-jrso he can complain about intentional loss of family members?16:39
luke-jror that click-through licensing agreements are invalid?16:39
RST38hso he CANNOT16:40
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* timeless_mbp *hates* packaging16:43
timeless_mbpif a ui package foo 0.1-9 depends on bar and baz16:43
timeless_mbpand the user has foo 0.1-816:43
timeless_mbpupdating foo doesn't pull in newer versions of bar/baz :(16:43
luke-jrwhy would it?16:44
MohammadAGunless you depend on the new version of bar and baz16:45
MohammadAGwhich seems quite umm, reasonable16:46
Triztdon't >= work?16:46
timeless_mbpluke-jr: convenience to lazy packagers16:46
MohammadAGwell, lazy packagers are buggy :P16:46
timeless_mbpwhy should i have to constantly update my meta package controls each time i update the transcluded packages16:46
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: that's part of the definition of lazy, yes :)16:46
timeless_mbpso, if i have:16:47
timeless_mbpDepends: x (>= 1),16:47
timeless_mbp y (>= 1),16:47
timeless_mbpX-Foo: hgi16:47
timeless_mbpit's ok for me to have a trailing comma? dpkg doesn't care?16:47
MohammadAGweren't you depending on bar and baz, not x and y?16:47
MohammadAGuse consistent examples :P16:47
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: different problem :)16:47
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, hmm, never tried it16:48
MohammadAGdpkg-buildpackage is a perl script I think16:48
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: because you want your meta package to depend on newer versions?16:51
timeless_mbpluke-jr: ?16:51
luke-jr[09:46:45] <timeless_mbp> why should i have to constantly update my meta package controls each time i update the transcluded packages16:51
timeless_mbpluke-jr: but that's busy work16:51
alteregoI should really create a local mirror of the maemo repositories so I can work on my own autobuilder stuff without caining my bandwidth16:52
timeless_mbpit's also the reason that Maemo5 updates suck16:52
luke-jrmake them all the same version and use variables16:52
timeless_mbpif there was a way for Maemo5 to mean "show this item if any of its dependencies have newer versions available"16:52
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, hah, HAM :P16:52
timeless_mbpthen we'd have been able to do easier updates16:52
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, users should be using apt-get16:52
* timeless_mbp reminds MohammadAG that a user by definition doesn't use apt-get16:53
timeless_mbphey, does zenity have a curses mode?16:53
* timeless_mbp doesn't seem to have x1116:53
MohammadAGSegmentation fault ha16:55
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alteregoYou've been getting a lot of those recently :P17:11
alteregoI'm about to head home now.17:12
* Trizt waves to alterego 17:12
* alterego is feeling way too fat again ..17:12
alteregoThink I might have eaten a bit tooo much17:13
Dassuhmm :(17:13
Triztnah, that's impossible, take some more17:13
DassuI have a problem of not gaining any weight17:13
nox-thats the problem with holiday seasons...17:13
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alteregoYeah, my mom made me a goody bag :D17:14
Dassualterego: it is important for my body to receive enough energy fo muscle growth. Any tips for that?17:14
alteregoProtein :)17:14
alteregoYou need to excercise though.17:14
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Dassu:o I do excercise once a week17:15
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timeless_mbpalterego: so...17:15
timeless_mbpyou have the ability to control how messages download17:15
timeless_mbpoptions are "Headers only", "Preview", "Full message"17:16
timeless_mbpthere needs to be a label17:16
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timeless_mbp"Download" doesn't work17:16
timeless_mbpI could use "Message headers only", "Message preview" and "Full message"17:16
timeless_mbpsound ok?17:16
alteregoYeah, sounds good :)17:16
timeless_mbphrm, "Message previews" and "Full messages" ?17:16
alteregoI don't think that matters.17:17
alteregoIt's implied ..17:17
alteregoI prefer the singular form anyway, don't know why :)17:17
timeless_mbpyeah, i do too17:17
timeless_mbpthe problem i had was 'headers' threw me17:17
timeless_mbpbut thinking about it, it means headers for *one* message17:17
alteregoYes, exactly.17:18
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timeless_mbpoh brother17:18
timeless_mbpso, there's a checkbox "Sync sent items"17:18
timeless_mbpan account has "Sent" and "Sent items"17:18
timeless_mbpi don't know what "sent items" is17:19
timeless_mbpoh, and for kicks...17:19
timeless_mbpthe accounts i'm using are configured to "Sync sent items"17:19
timeless_mbpthe Sent folder has 2 items, and Sent items has 1 item (not the same as either of the two in Sent)17:20
timeless_mbpDear lazy maemo nokia messaging web, "WTF does this widget do?"17:20
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: you claimed you use Nokia Messaging?17:21
timeless_mbpcan you open account settings for nm, in synchronization, is "Sync sent items" checked?17:22
timeless_mbpif so, can you tell me what it does?17:22
timeless_mbpif not, would you be willing to risk trying it and then telling me what it does? :)17:22
MohammadAGIt syncs your sent folder with the one on the web afaik17:23
MohammadAGso you can see sent items from (for example) on the N90017:23
MohammadAGand vice versa, emails sent from the N900 show on gmail.com17:23
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: right17:24
timeless_mbpis that "Sent" or "Sent items" ?17:24
timeless_mbpor does it effectively sync "Sent" with "Sent items"?17:24
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timeless_mbpso the fact that it's out of sync here is an anomaly? oh good17:25
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: and if you send a message using it'll appear in "Sent" via nokia messaging? (eventually)17:26
MohammadAGit should17:26
* MohammadAG checks17:26
MohammadAGsent items from are on my device17:27
alteregoAnyhow, bbiab17:27
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: in 'Sent'17:27
timeless_mbp(as opposed to 'Sent items')17:27
* MohammadAG checks the string he hes17:27
timeless_mbpnot yet localized by me, coming up in about an hour17:28
timeless_mbponce i get these silly corners understood17:28
MohammadAGheh, it decided to get stuck17:28
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timeless_mbpah! that's more like it! :)17:28
MohammadAGyes, in "Sent"17:28
timeless_mbpi presume 'Sent items' also has the same content? :)17:29
* MohammadAG wonders why they use a GtkButton for New message17:29
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MohammadAGbut only in the Nokia Messaging window17:29
MohammadAGthe rest of modest uses a HildonButton17:29
timeless_mbphow are you determining this?17:29
* timeless_mbp is too lazy to pull up the source17:29
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nidOthe difference between "sent" and "sent items" is purely poor coding and laziness17:29
MohammadAGit's still loading lol17:29
timeless_mbpnidO: not true17:30
timeless_mbpw/o checking this check box, 'Sent' and 'Sent items' are divorced17:30
MohammadAGfor the Gtk vs hildon thing, you can clearly see it from the styling17:30
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: what theme?17:30
timeless_mbpone is a local folder and the other is a remote folder17:30
MohammadAGdefault one17:30
MohammadAGhildon buttons have a gradient17:30
nidOyes true, "sent" is the folder name that's been used by mailservers for the best part of 2 decades for sent mail17:30
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: :o17:30
MohammadAGGtk buttons are gray with no gradient17:30
timeless_mbpyeah, i misunderstood how many levels of nm there were17:30
timeless_mbpnidO: not true17:31
nidOthen client devs (mainly stemming from outlook express) started defaulting to calling a sent items folder as "sent items"17:31
MohammadAG2 I think17:31
nidOwhich then gets created by the client17:31
MohammadAGthe mainwindow, which feeds folders to modest17:31
MohammadAGor that's how I think it does it17:31
MohammadAGthat main window (for nm) uses a GtkButton17:31
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: accounts list, folder list, folder17:31
timeless_mbpi was looking at folder list and went into folder and saw no difference17:32
timeless_mbpi needed to exit accounts list to get to modest17:32
timeless_mbpand then i saw17:32
MohammadAGthe Sent items isn't bad coding17:32
MohammadAGit's bad user understanding :P17:32
MohammadAGthat's you subscribed to your folder on Nokia Messaging's settings site17:32
MohammadAGthe folder on is called Sent items17:32
MohammadAGrename it to something else, and it'll be changed in modest17:32
MohammadAGso it's not a string from modest, it's sent from the server17:33
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: if you sync, will a new folder be created for Sent items that are synceD?17:33
MohammadAGIf you unsubscribe from the folder, and have the option ticked, your sent items will appear in sent17:33
timeless_mbpi can't subscribe to folders w. nokia messaging, right?17:34
MohammadAG"Sent items" is the folder you're subscribed to here
MohammadAGyou can17:34
MohammadAGand there's a bug which no one checked/fixed17:34
MohammadAGbug 8089, I think I reported it a year ago17:34
povbot`Bug Clicking notifications for e-mails in folders displays an error17:34
timeless_mbpeh? we support /<bug#> ?17:35
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timeless_mbpoh interesting17:36
timeless_mbpmaybe bugzilla does support that notation17:36
* timeless_mbp has never used it17:36
timeless_mbp does a redirect to
povbot`Bug 100000: was not found.17:36
timeless_mbp doesn't actually redirect17:37
povbot`Bug 8089: Clicking notifications for e-mails in folders displays an error17:37
MohammadAGit does afaik17:37
MohammadAGyep, it does17:37
timeless_mbpnot a redirect17:37
MohammadAGit was added recently17:37
timeless_mbpthe urlbar here doesn't change17:37
timeless_mbpoh joy17:37
timeless_mbpnew folder gives me:17:37
timeless_mbp[v] Inbox17:37
timeless_mbp[v] Inbox17:38
timeless_mbp[v] Inbox17:38
Triztyou have a lot of inboxes17:38
timeless_mbp[H] Drafts (1)17:38
timeless_mbp[^] Outbox17:38
timeless_mbp ^ Sent17:38
timeless_mbp[=) Nokia Messaging17:38
timeless_mbp[=) account1@whatever17:38
timeless_mbp[=) account1@whatever / Drafts17:39
timeless_mbp[=) account2@somewhere17:39
timeless_mbp[=) account2@somewhere / Drafts17:39
timeless_mbpi guess one of the inboxes is for whatever, one is for somewhere, and the other is a generic one?17:39
timeless_mbpheaven help me if i want to know which is which!17:40
timeless_mbpTrizt: and, i don't, i think MohammadAG would have 5, i only have 3 ! :)17:40
MohammadAGyeah, they aren't merged17:40
timeless_mbpbut how do you know which is which? :)17:40
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timeless_mbpi did something bad17:42
timeless_mbpi tried to create a folder17:42
timeless_mbpand i don't have the keys for the account17:42
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timeless_mbphrm, actually, it worked eventually17:42
* MohammadAG has 3 emails accounts17:44
MohammadAGand 10 folders in one17:44
timeless_mbpyou had gmail, hotmail, live and ovi mail17:44
timeless_mbpwhich did you lose?17:44
* MohammadAG wonders how you remember that17:45
MohammadAGI gave my ovi account to a friend17:45
povbot`Bug 8089: Clicking notifications for e-mails in folders displays an error17:45
timeless_mbpbugzilla never forgets :)17:45
* timeless_mbp is still amused by "Sent from my Nokia N900 using Nokia Mess..."17:46
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MohammadAGit wasn't like that pre-1.2 I think :P17:47
timeless_mbpit could say "Sent using Nokia Messaging from my Nokia..."17:47
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MohammadAGIt was Sent from my mobile computer using Nokia Messaging17:47
timeless_mbpyeah they made it shorter17:47
timeless_mbptoo bad they didn't make the preview button less stupid17:48
MohammadAGthey sorta confirmed that the N900 was the only M5 device17:48
RST38h"Somehow sent by N900 in spite of all the bugs"17:48
timeless_mbpdid you see the button?17:48
MohammadAGwhich one?17:48
* timeless_mbp looks for the pictures17:49
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* timeless_mbp thought that was quite special17:51
MohammadAGthey connected the pressed() (or whatever it is in GTK) the function17:52
MohammadAGtry to scroll from the button17:53
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: which button?17:53
timeless_mbpthe signature one?17:53
MohammadAGthe signature one17:53
timeless_mbpoh right17:53
* timeless_mbp had trouble doing that17:53
timeless_mbpi didn't really think about what it meant17:54
timeless_mbpi thought they were trying to be "helpful"17:54
MohammadAGnope, wrong signal17:54
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* MohammadAG is sometimes amazed at how bad some stuff is coded on maemo17:56
MohammadAGcouldn't they have used HildonPannableArea in the mediaplayer?17:56
* timeless_mbp is amazed that MohammadAG is only *sometimes* amazed by this :)17:57
MohammadAGit took me 6 hours to understand and experiment with delegates properly, but surely someone at Nokia would know that17:57
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TriztI'm trying to use qt-desginer to make a UI, but I don't really manage to get things to look the same on the N900 as it did on the computer, what is the geometry I should use for the window when using menu?17:57
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MohammadAG800x450, use layouts and set the layout for MainWindow17:58
MohammadAGbasically, you can have a layout of 1x1 pixels, and it's stretched when the layout is set17:58
MohammadAGhave a look at
MohammadAGdamn that's old17:59
Triztone of the vertical/horizontal/grid/form I guess you mean?17:59
* timeless_mbp cries18:01
timeless_mbpmerging failed18:01
MohammadAGuse a combination of both, you can never get it right with one ;)18:01
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TriztI used the qtabwidget, and I been down on 800x400, but still part of it gets outside the screen18:02
Triztand buttons usually I have to make huge or else they will be too small on n90018:03
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* timeless_mbp sighs18:23
* timeless_mbp hates merging18:23
* timeless_mbp is terribly confused18:23
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timeless_mbpoh great18:25
timeless_mbpmy merge failed18:25
* Trizt is away for a while or some days18:29
timeless_mbp "%s\n"18:33
timeless_mbp-"Deleting a contact will also remove it from the server."18:33
timeless_mbp+" Deleting this contact will also remove it from %s."18:33
* timeless_mbp wonders where that came from18:34
timeless_mbpjoy, abi break18:34
* timeless_mbp loves those18:34
timeless_mbphey, does anyone have a tool to detect abi breaks?18:35
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alteregotimeless_mbp: ldd ?18:37
timeless_mbpalterego: for .mo files18:37
timeless_mbpalterego: .mo files are generally sent to printf()18:38
timeless_mbppassing garbage values to printf() is a *BAD* idea18:38
timeless_mbpe.g. printf("%s %s %s %s");18:38
alteregodunno what .mo is :)18:38 is a compiled string table used by gettext18:38
timeless_mbproughly "it's a walking disaster"18:38
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alteregoUnfortunately not, but I'm sure it wouldn't be to hard to knock something up.18:39
timeless_mbpespecially if it's used by idiots18:39
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timeless_mbpthe general rule in C for an exported function is: once it's exported, you can't change its arguments, return value, or behavior18:39
timeless_mbpthe same rule needs to apply to po/mo strings18:40
lcuktimeless_mbp, at what point in a project would you say is the right one to consider translations and internationalisation? :)18:40
MohammadAGwhat's abi?18:40
MohammadAGnew fancy word for api?18:40
lcukapplication binary interface18:40
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: application binary interface18:40
alteregoapplication binary iface18:40
lcukyou can have same API but compiled for different cpus18:40
lcukor settings of same cpu18:40
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lcukwhich effect the ABI :P18:40
alteregoBasically it's the linking api between shared libraries and executables.18:40
timeless_mbppeople tend to think of APIs in terms of source level compatibility18:40
timeless_mbpABI is binary compatibility18:41
timeless_mbpyou can say "this source file compiles with that source file"18:41
timeless_mbpbut if the binary you generated from <this source file> doesn't work with the binary generated from <that source file>18:41
timeless_mbpand both binaries are in the wild, then you've made a mess18:41
timeless_mbppeople tend to try to work around getting this right by doing "packaging"18:42
timeless_mbpwhich is basically like trying to string duct tape between exposed wires and volatile explosives18:42
timeless_mbpit might work.. for a little while18:42
alteregoA classic example is how in meego we're moving to  hardfp, which means you can't run chroots for armv7l debian anymore.18:42
alteregoOr maemo bins, or palm pre18:42
* timeless_mbp notes that in theory one could create stubs to deal w/ that18:43
timeless_mbpif this was being done by ms or apple, they'd have been created too18:43
timeless_mbpbut no, we're linux, getting things right isn't a requirement :)18:43
timeless_mbpnor is offering a migration path18:43
timeless_mbp(no, i'm not bitter)18:44
timeless_mbp(but i am hungry)18:44
alteregoBut we have a good speed boost, so it's a worthwhile trade off, and hopefully ubuntu and emdebian will catch up with the hard float stuff.18:44
lcuktimeless_mbp, indeed, and shown elegantly in windows land by being able to run VisiCalc binary18:44
lcukbuilt in 198118:44
lcuk for curious folks, download link is on that page18:46
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DocScrutinizerwasn't there a tool called Qt-Linguist, which deals with that kinda stuff?18:54
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timeless_mbp> He asked back: "Why didn't you just use a ratio?" I replied: "That wouldn't have been as exact." What I didn't tell him was that the program code to do division wasn't working yet...18:56
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: i don't think it deals w/ telling you when you're being stupid18:56
DocScrutinizer(the printf("%s") issue that is)18:56
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timeless_mbpyeah, i don't think i've seen anything in Qt Linguist to handle that19:03
timeless_mbpi could be wrong, i only used it for a bit19:03
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sivangalterego: are their images already with hardfp meego for N900?19:14
sivanghey timeless_mbp19:14
* timeless_mbp is busy cursing some idiots19:14
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sivangtimeless_mbp: heh, cable company?19:14
timeless_mbpnah, people who think it's ok to change a string's contents19:15
sivangtimeless_mbp: translators?19:15
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timeless_mbpwell, technically ui designers doing stupid things to fixed strings which breaks existing translations (me)19:17
timeless_mbpthe coders should of course refuse to allow such crap, but they follow orders like good little robots19:17
Venemohey guys19:18
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jukwhat is bridging in android channel topic? bridging Android apps to this channel, ...19:22
juksorry i said bye there and saw it after part19:25
jukand called n900 next step :P19:25
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jukwheres official chrome can downloaded? or firefox is better19:28
javeI'm trying to compile an app using libvorbis for ogg support, but there doesnt seem to be libvorbis in scratchbox?19:28
luke-jrjuk: MicroB is better19:30
jukjave i think gstreamer pack should have it19:30
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javeI think my apt-get skillz sucks19:30
jukluke, i see19:31
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ShadowJKjave: probably in extras-*?19:35
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jukjave: Filename: pool/fremantle/free/libv/libvorbis/libvorbis0a_1.2.0.dfsg-3.1maemo0_armel.deb19:37
javethats the dev deb?19:38
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jukjave: i can paste my sources.list19:38
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jukjave: if u care ofcouse19:40
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timeless_mbpjuk: x86 or arm scratchbox?19:41
timeless_mbphrm, not that it matters we have both19:42
juktimeless_mbp: juk stands for my initial chars in my name19:43
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javejuk: that would be apreciated19:44
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : , , , , , , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude.19:44
timeless_mbp=> juk19:44
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timeless_mbptrumee: *sigh*19:45
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timeless_mbpanyone here remember how to detect pr1.3 in terms of packages?19:45
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juktimeless_mbp: thanks, choosing...19:46
timeless_mbplcuk: grr19:47
* timeless_mbp goes to see how this code does it today19:47
lcuktimeless_mbp, ?19:47
timeless_mbp  $islibhildon11 = `/usr/bin/dpkg --compare-versions $libhildon12 gt $libhildon1version && echo 1` =~ /^1/;19:48
timeless_mbpis what i'm doing right now19:49
* timeless_mbp should probably continue along that path19:49
* timeless_mbp ponders19:49
juktimeless_mbp: sorry im using ubuntu's pastbin it fastest19:49
timeless_mbpjuk: doesn't matter to me19:49
timeless_mbpjust so long as you don't spam the channel :)19:50
juktimeless_mbp: ah19:52
timeless_mbpa sources.list can easily be >3 lines19:52
jukget it while hot:
timeless_mbpjuk: and you did apt-get update at some point?19:56
timeless_mbplcuk: more or less that link sucks19:56
jukjave are welcome as long as you work for better of n900 and all us19:56
timeless_mbpalmost all of the suggestions there are likely to fail for real users :)19:56
juktimeless no i did not19:57
timeless_mbpyou should :)19:57
jukwhy would i?19:58
sivangtimeless_mbp: in the sysinfo page?19:59
timeless_mbpsivang: i'm a program19:59
sivangtimeless_mbp: osso- stuff does give the version info19:59
timeless_mbpsivang: osso- stuff fails when people brick their system, no?19:59
timeless_mbpe.g. remove the metapackage20:00
timeless_mbpuse a non standard kernel20:00
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* timeless_mbp gets terribly confused by a maze of twisty versions all dissimilar20:00
jave"apt-get update" seems to hang for me in scratchbox20:01
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sivangtimeless_mbp: true20:01
sivangtimeless_mbp: what are you trying to achieve?20:01
timeless_mbpsomething that actually works =b20:02
sivangtimeless_mbp: well, if the system is bricked, there's not much you can ask for20:02
timeless_mbpsivang: removing the meta package or changing the kernel doesn't actually brick it20:02
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timeless_mbpbut it more or less breaks all of the assumptions on that page20:02
sivangtimeless_mbp: do we expect normal users to do that?20:02
sivangtimeless_mbp: normal users fire the terminal and try that? :)20:03
sivangtimeless_mbp: or is it possile from HAM?20:03
timeless_mbpsivang: my target audience is anyone who could wander into this channel20:03
timeless_mbpwell, you can replace your kernel w/ ham :)20:03
timeless_mbpso yeah20:03
sivangyou mean in an upgrade process?20:03
SpeedEvilMmmm. Honey roast ham.20:04
timeless_mbpno, i mean as a package20:04
timeless_mbpthere are packages to replace your kernel20:04
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sivangtimeless_mbp: well, how do we put something on it that will always work?20:04
timeless_mbpsivang: ?20:04
sivangtimeless_mbp: exclue it from pkg mgmt? make it readonly?20:04
sivangtimeless_mbp: Sorry, I'm not following I guess20:05
timeless_mbpsivang: you're addressing the wrong problem20:05
timeless_mbpthere's nothing wrong w/ people changing components of the system20:05
sivangtimeless_mbp: I'm interested about the problem20:05
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timeless_mbpbut anything else that wants to deal w/ components of the system needs to be careful20:05
sivangtimeless_mbp: what is it?20:05
timeless_mbplocalization replacement which should work in 1.1, 1.2 or eventually 1.320:05
timeless_mbpthere were breaks between 1.2 and 1.3 in addition to the breaks from 1.1 to 1.220:06
sivangI see20:06
timeless_mbpnote that it's perfectly legal for someone to upgrade from 1.0 to 1.1 to 1.2. to 1.320:06
timeless_mbpand my package should survive being installed between any of those upgrades20:06
sivangI wonder what happens if you start from 1.0 now20:06
timeless_mbpiirc it'll do incremental upgrades20:07
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sivangso you want to be ablet o use different translation infra between versions?20:07
jukso hows meego? sucking i hear20:07
timeless_mbpprobably 1.0 => 1.0.1 => 1.1 => 1.2 => 1.320:07
timeless_mbpsivang: not infra20:07
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timeless_mbpbut *need* to use different strings20:07
sivangtimeless_mbp: ah!20:07
sivangI see20:07
sivanginteresting problem indeed.20:07
timeless_mbpbecause some idiot changed foo_string from "%s" to "%s %s"20:07
sivangoh geesz20:07
timeless_mbpthus if i use a "%s %s" string in an older version...20:07
* sivang understands the problem to its fullest now20:07
timeless_mbpnote: technically more than one idiot20:08
timeless_mbp(that makes it all better, right?)20:08
sivangso there's gotta be a way then, I'm sure DocScrutinizer or someone will know :)20:08
timeless_mbpsivang: i already deal w/ it for 1.1=>1.220:09
timeless_mbpi just need to pick the right condition for 1.2=>1.320:09
timeless_mbpand using a meta package or similar is absolutely wrong20:09
sivanghow do you deal with it there?20:09
sivangtimeless_mbp:  I gree completely20:09
timeless_mbpi check for the package that broke the abi fo strings in 1.2 :)20:09
timeless_mbpwhich was libhildon20:09
timeless_mbpfor =>1.3 it looks like i get to check address book20:09
timeless_mbpsince that's the offender i can see20:09
timeless_mbpbut first i need to deal w/ a mismerge or three20:10
timeless_mbpdealing w/ packaging is a minor hickup20:10
timeless_mbp msgid "ai_sb_update_nokia_%d"20:10
timeless_mbp-msgstr "Ovi software (%d)"20:10
timeless_mbp+msgstr "Nokia software (%d)"20:10
* timeless_mbp is amused20:10
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: from a Qt-Linguist perspective "foo %s" and "foo %s %s" are distinct strings that can coexist20:11
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: linguist is stupid20:12
timeless_mbpa localization tool is only as useful as its understanding of inputs20:12
DocScrutinizerok, nevermind then20:12
timeless_mbpyou're looking at input "foo %s" output "%s FOO"20:12
timeless_mbpthe input is "foo_1" the output was "foo %s" the new output is "foo %s %s"20:12
timeless_mbpand linguist would need to compare either a pot or a pair of po's to recognize that there's an abi break20:13
timeless_mbpnote: in some ways nokia gets things right20:13
timeless_mbpif i want to *fix* the US English for a program, I shouldn't have to source hack it20:13
timeless_mbpand i shouldn't be screwed by a code string freeze20:13
timeless_mbpyou solve this by using identifiers in the code instead of _("what you might see %s")20:14
timeless_mbpbut if you use identifiers, you must *not* recycle them20:14
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timeless_mbpand that's where nokia gets things wrong20:14
timeless_mbp-- the other problem with using _("%s - %s") is that you typically fail to provide context20:15
alteregoMy gfs mum got me this neat new mouse.20:15
timeless_mbpwhich means that if you need to translate one as "%s / %s" and another as "%s : %s", your screwed20:15
timeless_mbpagain, using unique identifiers avoids that version of problems20:16
timeless_mbpbut again, you can't recycle an identifier to mean *something else*20:16
timeless_mbpidentifiers are cheap, (unless you're idiots)20:16
DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: nonsense. Qt tr() is looking up translation in a table with primary key 'foo %s',20:16
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer-8: again, that's not how the code works20:16
timeless_mbpit uses tr("my_identifier")20:16
DocScrutinizer-8then the resulting translation is fed to printf()20:16
timeless_mbpyou're making a stupid assumption20:16
timeless_mbpand ignoring the fact that i'm *telling* you that we don't use _() or tr() that way20:17
timeless_mbpand we shouldn't20:17
timeless_mbpfor the reason i describe in the "%s - %s" problem20:17
timeless_mbps/your screwed/you're screwed/20:18
* timeless_mbp needs breakfast, lunch and dinner20:18
jukyaiks goes here20:19
timeless_mbphrm, maybe address book was in the 1.2 abi break?20:19
* timeless_mbp kinda got totally lost20:19
timeless_mbpa maze of twisty strings all similar20:19
timeless_mbp msgid "inpu_ib_quick_layout_switch"20:20
timeless_mbp-msgstr "Keyboard layout switched to %s"20:20
timeless_mbp+msgstr "Keyboard layout swapped"20:20
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer-8: think of that as tr("inpu_ib_quick_layout_switch")20:20
timeless_mbpinpu_ib_quick_layout_switch is the primary key20:20
timeless_mbpand one .ts file has "Keyboard layout swapped" and another has "Keyboard layout switched to %s"20:20
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DocScrutinizer-8now let me say for all I understand how tr() is supposed to work that's a completely wrecked and gimme-trouble way to use it20:27
* timeless_mbp shrugs20:28
timeless_mbptr() and _() are stupid20:28
DocScrutinizer-8tr() when missing .po is using the original string. So original and translation MUST have same number of %variables20:28
timeless_mbpthe way that they were "designed" to work fail for the reasons i've described above for "%s - %s"20:28
lcukDocScrutinizer-8, the way timeless explained it is more sensible than using printf style things in - simply for the case of duplication as he outlined20:29
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer-8: and simply put the "fallback case" is something which package management should solve20:29
lcukand missing translation files are a bug in themselves20:29
timeless_mbpyou shouldn't be allowed to provide a localization that's incomplete20:29
timeless_mbpthat's a *reasonable* requirement20:29
lcuktimeless_mbp, for fremantle we attempted afaik to make EN_GB as default fallback20:30
timeless_mbpotoh, requiring localizers to be able to split themselves in n ways is a mess20:30
timeless_mbplcuk: 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3? :)20:30
timeless_mbpor do you mean that the device's libc will pull in en_GB strings automatically?20:30
lcukhold on I will find the bug, i cant recall off hand whether we had to roll it back20:30
lcukgimme a mo20:30
timeless_mbpi'm going to hunt dinner20:31
timeless_mbpelse i starve20:31
timeless_mbpwhich isn't a good idea20:31
lcuksounds better20:31
lcukenjoy \o20:31
* alterego looks at his 1.0 roadmap20:31
* timeless_mbp picks the n900 w/ a sim and working stuff20:31
DocScrutinizer-8well, you're free to mess up a simple concept any way you like. For  the sake of 'duplicity' (whatever that means) and losing elementary properties like failsafe fallback20:31
alteregoYou have more than one? :D20:32
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jukin the mean time did you know that Christ was circumsized20:32
alteregoMe too20:32
timeless_xchathe was jewish. ..20:32
alteregoI mean, he was a jew ...20:32
timeless_xchatkinda hard to skip20:33
timeless_xchatat age 8 days20:33
timeless_xchatfwiw, there's a way to do it on the 9th day w/o having been sick20:34
* timeless_xchat doubts anyo20:34
* timeless_xchat doubts anyone here would know20:34
DocScrutinizer-8now I finally get why diablo is coming up with shit like 'tana_fi_home_thumbnail' since years - finally \o/20:35
sivangdoes maemo carry /etc/lsb-release?20:35
sivangif it would that would be useful20:35
timeless_xchatthe general rule is to do it on the 8th day even if it's the sabbath20:35
timeless_xchatlsb-release *isn't* useful20:36
sivangsince once the pkg gets installed, it is by spec not supposed to get removed20:36
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sivangtimeless_xchat: well, it is sueful if you use it so :)20:36
timeless_xchatthe general exception is if the boy is ill20:36
timeless_xchatsivang, part of lsb is rpm...20:37
sivangtimeless_xchat: ?20:37
ShadowJKyeah you need rpm for lsb :)20:38
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sivanghrm, or dpkg on debian?20:39
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ShadowJKlsb requires rpm support20:40
sivangwait wait a sec20:40
sivangso, lsb required that rpm will be possible to use on the platform?20:40
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timeless_xchatmore or less20:40
* ShadowJK nods20:40
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sivangI'm a bit surprised20:41
* ShadowJK suspects they picked rpm because most non-rpm distros have tools to deal with rpms anyway20:43
juktimeless_xchat: is there a special qualification for the job20:43
sivangjuk: for circumsicion?20:44
juksivang: yes20:44
sivangjuk: I think you have to be a Rebbi20:45
sivangjuk: with special training for this, nowdays most of them also hold M.D20:45
sivangjuk: well, not most, but those most wanted in the cemermony20:45
DocScrutinizernow by reading backscroll, I notice what you meant with duplicity and '%s - %s' problem. Qt *has* context for that. You either set it explicitly, or it's implicitly taken from source-file name, and maybe also function/object name20:45
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timeless_xchatsivang : no20:46
timeless_xchattraditional a father would do it20:47
timeless_xchatmohel is the term to google20:47
sivangtimeless_xchat: interesting. I was sure you had to take a mohel for that.20:47
DocScrutinizerthis way your "identifiers" are perfect when looking like "foo %s" or even "%s", and you can distinguish between "%s" in one location and "%s" in another. And tell that apart from "%s %s"20:47
juktimeless_xchat: point taken20:47
DocScrutinizerand have sane fallback when pot is missing20:47
timeless_xchatsivang : traditionally = milenia ago20:48
sivangtimeless_xchat: ah :)20:48
DocScrutinizerbut meh, Nokia gets it right sometimes :-P20:48
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luke-jrFeast of the Circumcision is on Jan 1 fwiw20:49
timeless_xchatdocscrutinizer: people don't get context right20:49
timeless_xchatit's almost universally unused20:49
DocScrutinizerok so let's fuck it up fubar, so maybe it gets better than - QED20:49
sivangDocScrutinizer: how do you define the context in this case? where the string is useD? mid?20:49
timeless_xchatdocscrutinizer, screwing up identifiers takes considerably more talent than missing context20:50
DocScrutinizersivang: all that is explained to epic length and detail in Qt linguist manual20:50
timeless_xchatbut yes, our ui designers are talented20:50
timeless_xchatsivang, gettext has a dgettext and a something gettext where you provide context20:50
timeless_xchatbut the reality is that it isn't done right/well/ever20:51
timeless_xchatand it requires *much* more understanding on the part of coders than using identifiers20:51
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timeless_xchatalso people make various stupid assumptions20:51
sivangtimeless_xchat: ah okay, so setting "app context" like you do from gtk?20:51
timeless_xchatlike "english is a useful fallback"20:52
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sivangtimeless_xchat: most apps just define it for the "app" with default, e.g. not providing policy at least as I seen20:52
timeless_xchatif it were useful, or if the user were aware, the user wouldn't use l10n and would stick to english20:52
timeless_xchatfewer bugs20:52
SpeedEviltimeless_xchat: In principle, a language you are partially fluent in is better than no understandable message.20:53
sivangtimeless_xchat: I think so as well, but users don't.20:53
DocScrutinizertimeless_xchat: LANG=C is a useful fallbeck by definition20:53
alteregoHeh, I should probably add translation support to my app/s.20:53
DocScrutinizerfallback even20:53
SpeedEvilThat does kinda assume that that language is english though20:53
timeless_xchati suppose dcgettext is the equivalent. ..20:53
timeless_xchatspeedevil: terrible principle20:54
timeless_xchatnote that _random_long_string_i_can_google is useful20:54
sivangso I can chose domains based on the language for example?20:54
timeless_xchatshort unintelligible english string missing context is not20:55
sivango based on sepcifci msgids I know are changed wrt to argument interpolation order and stuff?20:55
timeless_xchatsivang : you aren't supposed to know about the language20:55
sivangtimeless_xchat: right, so based on "problematic" msgids?20:55
* nox- also often prefers english locale bc translations are often bad/wrong/not understandable20:55
timeless_xchatbut basically you might have "new"/"file"20:55
timeless_xchatand "new"/"folder"20:55
timeless_xchatboth might have the string "new"20:55
sivangnox-: I've never used Hebrew in computers, when someone addresses me in Hebrew I tend to ask him to accept my english typing as I developed no typing skills in it.20:56
timeless_xchatbut a language might need e.g. feminine or masculine for one/the other20:56
timeless_xchatnox: indeed20:56
timeless_xchatlocalizations tend to be awful20:56
timeless_xchatit doesn't help that the originals tend to suck20:56
DocScrutinizerok, >>short unintelligible english string missing context is not<< So Nokia decided it's better to have TANA_FI_HOME_THUMB is better then, rather than have "user %s's homescreen" and provide context in a way Qt tr() was designed to do it20:57
timeless_xchatbut put slightly bad in, get extremely bad out20:57
timeless_xchatdocscrutinizer : err20:57
Arkenoinoticed an annoying thing about n900: if all you have is weak car charger DON'T let it power itself off. Otherwise it will look like that: "see, we have some charger connected, let's power on! oops. battery is empty, shutting down. again. and again.". If you power it off manually, it will have time to charge good enough to survive boot sequence.20:57
DocScrutinizerand your whole rant of last 2h proves how much better it is20:57
timeless_xchatmaemo doesn't use Qt20:57
timeless_xchatso please don't list tr() as the problem20:57
timeless_xchatand really, googling for tana_ whatever would work20:58
povbot`Bug 9700: media art not syn'd with artist name and song playing20:58
DocScrutinizermeh, I'm out. couldn't bother less to argue about that new old stupidity in maemo20:58
sivangDocScrutinizer: hehe, cheers Doc20:58
sivangArkenoi: creds go to DocScrutinizer for giving the input for this FEA20:59
timeless_xchatone other design feature of identifiers:20:59
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timeless_xchatyou can immediately recognize when a localization is broken20:59
timeless_xchatand what to fix20:59
timeless_xchatif someone uses "PERCENTs", you might never realize it isn't translated properly21:00
sivangI'm out as well, be back later.21:00
* timeless_xchat doesn't know where percent is on this keyboard 21:00
alteregoOn the N90021:01
alteregoIt's under sym menu :/21:01
alteregoIt's kindof annoying for me actually.21:01
timeless_xchatalterego, i don't have sym menu :)21:01
alteregoI might replace dollar and euro to pipe and percent ..21:02
alteregoWell, euro â‚21:02
alteregoI might still use dollar a lot when scripting.21:02
timeless_xchatis my bottom row21:03
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Arkenoitoday is the first time i see a usb flash drive that does not work with n90021:04
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timeless_xchatyou adapt usb often?21:05
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Arkenoinot really21:07
Arkenoithe connector is ok, i tried with another flash and it worked21:08
timeless_xchathow big is the drive?21:08
timeless_xchatcould be exfat21:08
timeless_xchatafaiu, the SD "standard" is somewhat of a joke21:10
timeless_xchatthere are lots of levels21:11
luke-jralterego: wtf is â‚?21:11
timeless_xchatand then there are the actual cards21:11
luke-jrEuro is €21:11
timeless_xchatsounds like you guys have encoding issues21:11
timeless_xchatiirc a-hat-prefix means latin-121:12
alteregoluke-jr: that was me pressing the Euro button on the N900 through xterm, ssh, screen, and irssi :P21:12
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luke-jrtimeless_xchat: I thought Latin-1 was an 8-bit encoding21:12
luke-jralterego: it didn't work right21:12
alteregoObviously ...21:13
timeless_xchatluke-jr, when decoders don't like things they tend to be split21:13
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timeless_xchatoh cute21:14
timeless_xchatxchat here is using "latin/unicode hybrid"21:14
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jukwell thanks for warmth, good night21:15
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* timeless_xchat kicks browser-ui-find21:18
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timeless_xchatthe way it passes enter to web pages is ...21:18
timeless_xchatawesome :(21:18
janne123i have reflash problem with my nokia n900 and i must do it because i'll sell it tomorrow21:19
janne123i tried flasher 3.5 but i21:19
timeless_xchatIf you input the pound sign as UTF-8 and convert back to ISO 8859-1, it gains a capital A hat (Â) before the pound sign.21:19
janne123it doesnt work*21:19
janne123can someone help me?21:19
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timeless_xchatluke-jr, so i got it backwards :)21:19
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* timeless_xchat would probably be happy trading sym for percent21:23
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luke-jrtimeless_xchat: I'm UTF-8 though21:23
timeless_xchatluke-jr, his wire is twisty21:23
janne123i need help reflashing nokia n900, could someone help me?:)21:24
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
janne123i read it but i have little problem21:25
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psycho_oreosany of you guys use instinctiv without microSD card inserted into n900? if so does it work without errors?21:25
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* ShadowJK fails at mind reading21:26
psycho_oreosShadowJK, at my question?21:27
ShadowJKno at the guy that's just saying "it doesnt work" without explaining what he did and what happened next21:28
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DocScrutinizerjanne123: yes, someone *could* - if and only if you're providing sufficient info about what you did and where it failed and how21:29
janne123C:\Program Files\maemo\flasher-3.5>flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_21:30
janne123PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R21:30
janne123flasher v2.5.2 (Sep 24 2009)21:30
janne123RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: %m21:30
janne123C:\Program Files\maemo\flasher-3.5>21:30
janne123sry, i jusdt tested it again:)21:30
janne123so why it doesn't work?21:30
timeless_xchatare you an admin?21:31
ShadowJKno idea21:31
psycho_oreosseems like you split the filename in half and the rest of the command21:31
timeless_xchatis it w64?21:31
DocScrutinizeryour file is not located in current directory?21:31
janne123i just knew problem21:31
* timeless_xchat thinks docscrutinizer wins the tea leave reading contest21:32
DocScrutinizerjanne123: afaik even windows supports tab filename expansion now21:32
timeless_xchatnt4 supported it...21:32
alteregoHas done for a while in "dos prompt"21:32
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* timeless_xchat doesn't recall if 9x ever got that, it might not have21:33
janne123it works21:33
janne123i forgot to move file to right directory21:33
ShadowJKYou probably also want to flash both images, without the -R flag, as this one only replaces the OS and not your files and settings.21:33
DocScrutinizerjanne123: enter >> flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_ << then pres tab key. It should expand the RX-51_ part to full filename. If it doesn't you need find actual location of file21:33
timeless_xchatyeah, docscrutinizer wins the tea leave reading contest21:33
* psycho_oreos recalls there was a version of windows where you can enable tab completion for command prompt under tweakui21:33
timeless_xchatpsycho: nt4/5 had interesting defaults21:34
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janne123how u explain this, when i bought phone and old user used opera browser, i installed it with fast application manager and it remembered passwords etc21:34
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: good point21:34
janne123should i free up rootfs or something?21:35
psycho_oreostimeless_xchat, hehe its been awhile since I last tampered with an old windows machine/setup21:35
psycho_oreosjanne123, the passwords might not be saved under the flashed location, it might be stored under /home or the eMMC portion21:36
DocScrutinizerjanne123: read the wiki page about flashing. FIRST flash eMMC/VANILLA, THEN flash COMBINED as you did above21:36
timeless_xchatpsycho: from memory, the defaults were sane as of 5.121:36
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ShadowJKjanne123, yeah that's what I'm saying, you want to flash both images. The one you just did, but not with the -R flag which causes reboot and is warned against everywhere, and then the emmc image (there's a "vanilla" in the filename)21:37
DocScrutinizer(s)he's gone?21:37
psycho_oreostimeless_xchat, heh so maybe win2000 may not have it then :)21:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: nope, eMMC *first*21:37
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timeless_xchatpsycho, it wasn't that it didn't support it21:38
timeless_xchatit was more a matter of defaults21:38
timeless_xchati think ms was worried about breaking something21:38
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timeless_xchatso they left the default behavior21:38
janne123oh, only network problem21:38
timeless_xchatthe nice thing about cmd21:38
psycho_oreosthen again win2000 had nt kernel21:39
DocScrutinizerjanne123: wb21:39
DocScrutinizerjanne123: read the wiki page about flashing. FIRST flash eMMC/VANILLA, THEN flash COMBINED as you did above21:39
timeless_xchatis that you have keys for generic completion and for directory completion21:39
janne123i flashed succesfully so why i should read flashing quides anymore?21:40
timeless_xchatto the extent that my desktop pc runs anything, it runs w2k21:40
timeless_xchatjanne123, because you did it wrong21:40
timeless_xchatthere are two flash targets21:40
DocScrutinizerjanne123: you came here and asked for help. If you don't like the advice you get, please rethink21:40
timeless_xchatand you generally want to flash both at once21:40
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timeless_xchatjanne123, but as docscrutinizer notes, it's poor form to ask for help and then ignore it21:41
janne123i wanted to reflash, is this wrong now?:)21:41
timeless_xchatgo READ the wiki21:41
timeless_xchatdon't do things21:41
timeless_xchatgo READ the wiki21:41
DocScrutinizeryou might have private data on eMMC 32GB storage, which isn't cleared by what you did21:41
psycho_oreosjanne123, unless you want to leave the previous user's data intact you might want to also flash eMMC21:41
ShadowJKIf you want to wipe the N900 before selling it, then you want to flash both images. You just reflashed the OS. Your old settings and files are still there, like how you described what happened with opera.21:42
janne123oh i understand21:43
janne123but next problem, how i find quide;)21:43
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
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janne123eMMC is the 32GB memory what i try to format, right?21:47
timeless_xchatgo READ the wiki21:48
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janne123Flashing the eMMC in the N900 <-- this part of quide, i think:)21:48
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* timeless_mbp is home21:51
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janne_123so, i flash eMMC file like in quide and then pr1.3. file like before today WITHOUT booting?21:54
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janne_123not too hard, i hope21:58
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timeless_mbpit's just a matter of following instructions...22:00
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GAN900Jaffa,  mwkn yes/no?22:02
janne_123i just think why i cant include -R, what -R means in this thing?22:02
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ShadowJK-R means reboot22:03
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janne_123big fail if i write it:)22:03
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DocScrutinizerI hope my recent edit made the wiki even a bit more clear (though not regarding -R)22:04
janne_123but when i flash FIASCO, why i cant reboot because i have flashed eMMC before that?22:05
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DocScrutinizerjanne_123: actually, since new sequence of 1.:eMMC/2.:rootfs got into wiki, the -R thing isn't such a big fail anymore22:06
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janne_123so i can write -R now?22:06
DocScrutinizeryou *can* on second flashing22:06
DocScrutinizeryou probably need to power down device manually after first flashing22:07
janne_123second flashing? do u mean i shouldnt write -R now when i flash it?22:07
ShadowJKiirc you can do them after eachother while keeping usb connected22:07
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's what we all would expect, but which turned out not to work usually22:08
ShadowJKhm, it worked for me when I did it :/22:08
DocScrutinizerjanne_123: no, please don't use -R22:08
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: without intermediate reboot?22:09
janne_123DocScrutinizer, thanks, it was clear answer, i forget -R in this time:)22:09
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yeah22:09
ShadowJKI flashed without -R, device stays in flashing mode, I flashed the second image22:10
DocScrutinizerI never tried by myself, but heard several complaints about it doesn't work22:11
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: time to publish a flashing script, I guess :-)22:12
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van_merry christmas22:18
DocScrutinizerecho "please remove battery and plug in the N900 USB to PC. Then hit Enter on PC" && read && echo "please insert the battery now" && $FLASH-EMMC-WITHOUT-MINUSR && echo "flashing eMMC done, now starting to flash COMBINED. If process hangs, please remove and re-insert battery" && $FLASH-COMBINED && echo "flashing process succeeded!"22:18
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infobotDocScrutinizer: :)23:00
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RST38hEvening. Or something.23:07
RST38hDocScrutinizer: How is suffering tonight?23:07
DocScrutinizerRST38h: real fun. can't decide whether to head out searching for food, or investigate some weird cookie from containing a token to download img-files23:09
RST38hIsn't bit too late for foraging?23:09
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Arkenoiwhat is error -71 for USB device?23:10
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lcukhey RST38h \o23:12
RST38hehlo lcuk23:12
DocScrutinizerwonder if "POST /nokia_N900.php device=3472728636&submit=send" is needed, or if it will suffice to "POST /nokia_N900.php device=3472728636&agree=I+accept"23:15
Arkenoiactually that problematic flash drive *works*. but it takes about 2-3 minutes to successfully enumerate23:15
* DocScrutinizer also wonders how to send a HTTP POST at all, with anything different to a plain netcat23:17
DocScrutinizerand obviously not with a browser :-)23:18
DocScrutinizeraiui wget can't do that?23:18
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: which brand and model?23:19
Arkenoithere are "device descriptor read/64 error -71"s and "device not accepting address XX, error -71" before that.23:20
Arkenoijetflash transcend 16Gb23:21
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: yeah, this read/64 error -71(?) seen frequently. No idea what that means23:21
DocScrutinizerI'd have to dig it up in source23:22
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DocScrutinizer(cookie) also will that cookie always have a name of nokiaN900d11agreed22 ?23:30
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DocScrutinizermeh, I think there's no sane way to implement a custom FIASKO img file download, with low effort (i.e. inside a script)23:32
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: been faster than you :-D23:33
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timeless_mbpsorry, i'm staring at nokia-messaging23:33
DocScrutinizercorrected my typo before you did :-)23:33
timeless_mbpgood for you :)23:33
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DocScrutinizertalking bout typos:23:35
* timeless_mbp sighs23:35
* timeless_mbp kicks something23:35
* DocScrutinizer throws an 'a' at flsher23:35
* timeless_mbp goes back to do things again23:35
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timeless_mbpfile a bug, there are people who actually fix those pages :o23:35
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timeless_mbpTrizt: ok, so, i've gotten a slightly better set up23:47
timeless_mbpunfortunately you get to do the uninstall + reinstall flavor because it isn't a version bump23:47
* timeless_mbp goes to fish for a better package for a certain file23:48
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