IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-12-19

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alteregoI hate how appman can't even load fscking catalog 1 in 5 times -_-00:30
MohammadAGuse fapman00:31
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spiritdis it possible to run multiple tabs in easy debian?00:32
MohammadAGalterego, go hardcore and use apt-get00:32
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MohammadAGalterego, and if you feel that's not hardcore enough, unpack files manually and write changes to dpkg's status area00:33
GasCanspiritd: Desktop's you mean?00:33
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Pradeepeveryone am new to maemo00:34
Pradeepjust got my n90000:34
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Pradeepis it possible to connect my phone to my LAN network via usb00:36
alteregoit is with a bit of iptables00:37
alteregoOr bridging network interfaces.00:37
Pradeephw? cos i use kubuntu00:38
Pradeepbesides i dont hv any wireless network around00:38
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alteregoNo, no hw00:41
alteregoIt's pretty easy.00:41
alteregoI'd recommend the bridging approach, one command to link two network interfaces together.00:42
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alteregoYou'll need to install bridge-utils under kubuntu and the research brctl00:43
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spiritdGasCan nope ... i mean tabs in terminal00:44
spiritdPradeep you can use sample scripts from openvpn sources00:45
spiritd...for bridging00:45
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Pradeephmmm is dere any tutorial aside d one on maemo site00:50
Pradeephmmm is dere any tutorial aside d one o00:50
alteregoFor what?00:50
Pradeepfor usb networking00:51
Pradeepcos i dont hv wireless around me00:51
Pradeepspiritd what do u mean00:53
alteregoWhat exactly are you trying to do?00:53
Pradeepok nw00:53
spiritdi just heard something about bridging... and i know nice script for creating bridge from 2 and more adapters00:54
spiritdnetwork adapter00:54
Pradeepi got the phone i want to run updates00:54
Pradeepbut i dont have wireless networks around me00:54
alteregoOkay, and you want to run the updates through you home LAN00:54
alteregoFair enough00:54
korhojoawhy not just get pr1.3 and flash it00:54
BCMMthat's dependant on the OS the computer runs00:55
korhojoasuddenly, update00:55
Pradeepnw i want to know if i could connect via my usb to m laptop which connected to d network00:55
alteregokubuntu, he said.00:55
alteregoPradeep: you can00:55
BCMMPradeep: yes, kubuntu does USB networking, and so does the n90000:55
alteregoUnfortunately the easy way I don't know how to do under kubuntu, only ubuntu using the network manager.00:56
Pradeepso hw do i go about it00:56
BCMMimho, the easy way would be to run dnsmasq on the pc, but then again i'm probably weird00:56
alteregoYou need to become root on yhe N90000:56
BCMMalterego: without a network connection to install rootsh with?00:56
* alterego shrugs :)00:56
Pradeepdon that i installed rootsh00:56
Pradeepwhich enabled that00:57
alteregoOkay, become root00:57
alteregoplug N900 in to your computer00:57
alteregoselect pc suite mode00:57
BCMMthe hard way is to just set up the IP address, dns server, and route manually00:57
alteregoon the n900, as root, type: ifup usb000:58
Pradeepdere is default ip of
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Pradeepbut my network is
alteregoNow, on your kubuntu machine  use network manager to edit the usb network interface that now shows00:59
alteregoUnder IPv4 settings, change DHCP to "share this computers internet connection"01:00
Pradeepu mean my mobilebroadband01:00
Pradeepcos i cant see any usb01:00
alteregoWell, it should be there01:01
alteregoBut I guess this is what you get when you use kubuntu over ubuntu01:01
Pradeepi can c wired, wireless, mobile broadband,vpn and dsl01:01
alteregoIt's under wired01:02
alterego"auto usb" under wired connections .01:03
Pradeepstil here01:04
alteregoHrm, can't remember the dhcp command ..01:04
Pradeepu mean using iptables01:05
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alteregoAh, right, now on the N900 as root run udhcpc usb001:06
alteregoAnd try to ping something01:06
alteregolike for instance01:06
alteregoI can't test this setup, it's all hypothetical. But it should work :)01:07
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Pradeepi would try it out01:07
Pradeepare you always in here01:08
alteregoIt should work fine :)01:08
alteregoActually I can test it, hang on.01:09
Pradeepany tips for me01:09
Pradeepi mean apps n all01:09
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Pradeepwas something called h-e-n01:09
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Pradeepa usb app01:09
Pradeepbut did not see it in d repo01:10
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alteregoudhcpc -i usb0 actually01:15
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alteregoAnd I can confirm it works.01:15
alteregoI'm tethered to my netbook, which is connected to the internet through my N900.01:15
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Pradeepwow just nw01:16
Pradeepno other settings at all01:16
alteregoI then setup USB networking as I just described. And now the N900 is using the internet through my netbook, which is using the internet through the N900s modem.01:16
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alteregoBut basically, yeah, that's all you need01:17
alteregosetup 'shared connection' instead of dhcp under auto usb on k/ubuntu network manager, the udhcpc -i usb0 as root on the N90001:17
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alteregoMake sure the N900 isn't connected via 3G or wifi with its' own network settings and you're set01:18
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alteregoI should document a little howto on the meego wiki for this actually, quite a neat setup.01:18
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jacekowskialterego: that configuration has issues01:19
jacekowskialterego: if somebody has like a cable internet where modem is directly plugged in into pc and you have wan ip directly on your ethernet interface01:19
jacekowskishared connection01:21
jacekowskiit will just bridge eth with usb01:21
jacekowskiand that will fail if you have cable internet01:21
jacekowskibecause isp will just issue ip address to one specific mac01:22
alteregoIt uses nat doesn't it?01:22
alteregoI thought ubuntu used NAT ..01:22
jacekowskithere are two options01:22
jacekowskione will bridge01:22
jacekowskione will nat01:22
alteregoWell, good to know.01:22
alteregoDoes it choose at runtime?01:23
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alteregoBecause I told him a specific option :P01:23
alteregoWhich I thought uses nat and puts everything through it's own private subnet01:23
jacekowskiin 9.10 i kde version of network manager there were two options01:23
Pradeepi wish i was on my desk in the office01:23
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alteregoHrm, okay01:24
jacekowskii never used gnome01:24
Pradeepatm am using gprs on the fone01:24
jacekowskibut i suppose gnome by now should have copied that from kde01:24
Pradeepand it so expensive01:24
jacekowskiPradeep: we have it for free01:24
alteregoWell, under ubuntu gnome I think there's just one and its' definitely setting up a private subnet and using nat01:24
Pradeepi just suscribe for only 10mb01:25
jacekowskii'm surprised that you have gsm there at all01:25
Pradeepcant open html unless everything wud finish01:26
Pradeepmtn, glo, airtel, etisalat01:26
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jacekowskii'm not going to say because that would probably get me banned01:27
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jacekowskimy laptop got stolen in nigeria01:28
Pradeepsorry abt that01:28
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Pradeepexcuse me what does overclocking do to your n900 ?01:33
doc|homedid you steal his laptop?01:33
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BCMMPradeep: makes the CPU go faster and burn out sooner01:33
infobot"OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"01:33
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OEXPLHello, so, noob here: This means that the N900 now can have the new and free Ovi Navi stuff? I just haven't my now to see myself.02:01
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ToJa92You already have Ovi Maps on the N900. not sure if navigation is there or not02:04
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OEXPLBut afaik not the newest version.02:04
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ToJa92the news you're referring to is old.. 25th october02:13
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monkeyiqanyone know an app to limit the duration of a call on the n900?02:15
alteregoWait, do I need 11 votes for promotion?!?02:15
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andre__OEXPL: so far Ovi maps navigation is not available for the N900, and for Maemo5 I don't expect it to happen either02:18
alteregoI do, I freakin' need 11 votes -_-02:18
andre__OEXPL, plus in the link you posted there is nothing mentioned about navigation02:18
alteregoStupid (10 out of 10) lie02:18
MohammadAGalterego, no, you need 10 days02:18
Venemo_N900bye bye guys02:18
Venemo_N900good evening02:19
OEXPLyeah I just tough that the suite includes the funny maps02:19
OEXPLPretty cool from nokia, so much money for that phone but they can't keep their promise to make it available for the n900.02:19
alteregoMohammadAG: I do? I thought that was from -devel to -testing02:19
alteregoOh well :)02:19
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MohammadAGno, it's for -testing to extras02:20
OEXPLalterego: When i install meego to it, will I have the maps then?02:20
OEXPLI mean, the navigation02:20
alteregoOEXPL: no02:20
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alteregomaemo maps has navigation02:20
andre__true - navigation is available. but not voice output for it02:20
alteregoNo, no voice02:21
alteregoUnlikely to get it either.02:21
OEXPLso the ovi stuff on maemo has navigation - but no voice?02:21
OEXPLor on meego02:21
alteregoNo navigation at all on MeeGo02:21
GAN900OEXPL, if you want long term support, pick another company.02:21
MohammadAGMeeGo has no navigation right now02:21
MohammadAGyou're better off buying Sygic02:21
tremnite all, sweet dreams02:22
GAN900OEXPL, if you're unhappy with Nokia, call up Nokia Care and tell them.02:22
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GAN900(it might help)02:22
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alteregoAh, quarantine ends on the 26th, lame02:27
* alterego goes to sleep02:27
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OEXPLDo we recieve map updates on the n900?02:28
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andre__OEXPL: as map data is loaded nearly everytime (if it's not still in the cache) from a server via an internet connection, I'd guess that they sometimes do update some data on the server02:34
OEXPLhmm, ok, thx.02:35
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comawhitehehe Nokia doesn't sell the N900 on their website anymore02:48
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mikki-kuncomawhite: seems they want to cut of noobs joining the developer circles and taking up their time...03:02
opdf2is there any newsgroup downloader app in the repo?03:03
comawhiteMikaT, lol03:04
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comawhitemikki-kun, *03:05
mikki-kunx) you made that already twice :D03:05
comawhiteI did?03:05
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mikki-kunsome time in the past you did :)03:08
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* comawhite shrugs03:09
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jtabto transfer a block of text from a textfile into a browser, what are the keystroke commands please? I thought it was Ctrl-v, but that's not working for me04:45
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ebzzry_Is there a graphviz port for Maemo 5?04:57
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luke-jrebzzry_: I expect you can compile it w/o changed05:01
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ebzzry_Is there a way to change bookmark icons in the desktop?05:25
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Termanagood morning08:17
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DocAvalanchesorry for noise, need to use-refresh my nicks08:18
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TermanaDocScrutinizer: why? nicks don't expire on freenode08:20
joerg_relogintemsure they do08:20
TermanaOr well, at least if you have the grouped in to the one nick they don't08:20
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Termanahave them*08:20
TermanaI have a build up of nicks that I never use :p08:20
DocScrutinizerif somebody else reclaims that nick, freenode staff may give it away if it's not actively used08:21
TermanaDocScrutinizer: but don't you think they will see the fact that you are just cycling into those nicknames? :p08:22
DocScrutinizersure, nickserv has a recently-used date for each nick08:22
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Gh0stybacking up my n900 (copying all files from the storage mode)09:03
Gh0styand then I guess I'll also have to hook it up in pc suite mode to transfer some scripts I placed in /root ? :p09:04
psycho_oreosyou won't backup all the stuff you installed if you're copying stuffy through storage mode09:04
Gh0stybut this is point a09:04
Gh0stypoint b is in ssh mode copy over some scripts09:04
Gh0styand point c is save a backup which i made through the backup tool :)09:04
Gh0stythen its time for a reflash09:05
Gh0stythat should be safe enough? :P09:05
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psycho_oreosI was thinking of using something like rob's backup tool09:07
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Gh0styrob's backup tool?09:12
psycho_oreosyeah, its not available in extras yet but its a very handy tool for backing up stuff, I might have a bookmark link somewhere but I have to forewarn you that it does have a bit of a catch on its own09:13
Gh0stywhat do you mean by catch?09:14
Gh0styit will eat my dog? :p09:14
Gh0stydont understand why nobody made a "full backup" tool actually09:14
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Gh0stysomething which just writes the whole device filesystem to the SD card09:14
Gh0styofcourse this means you need to clean off the excess data first09:15
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Gh0styeven backing up goes slow now :/09:15
Gh0stydespite the fact i just rebooted the phone09:15
Gh0styits seriously badly behaving lately09:16
Gh0stymessed a bit too much with it i guess :p09:16
Gh0styand its still on top of an ota pr1.3 update also09:16
Gh0styok lets see now ... the instructions on how to flash your device :)09:18
DocScrutinizerbackup menu is supposed to do a full backup09:19
Gh0stydoes backup menu also backup files I put myself in /home/user or /root ?09:19
DocScrutinizerrestoring a full backup after flash is obviously useless, except for rollback of that flash09:19
Gh0styyes thats my point09:19
Gh0styif all else fails just rollback09:20
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Gh0styproblem number 109:20
Gh0styflasher is i38609:20
Gh0styand I don't have a linux machine with i386 anymore09:20
Gh0styah the manual says I can just force install09:21
luke-jrGh0sty: it won't work tho09:22
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Gh0stywhat wont?09:23
Gh0styforce architecture installed the deb file ...09:23
luke-jrsure, but it won't run09:23
luke-jrforce = break my system09:23
Gh0stythe tool wont work?09:24
Gh0stywhy do they even bother to put in the manual that you can just install it like that ??09:24
Gh0styI'll try, see where I end up ...09:24
luke-jrif it DOES work, then you DO have i386 :P09:24
Pradeepgood morning everyone09:25
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Pradeepn900 is not suppose to be a fone a piece of hardware awesome09:26
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Gh0styluke-jr: ofcourse my laptop also has i386 libs and stuff09:29
Gh0stynot all things work x64 ... :/09:30
Gh0stydespite the fact that companies should stop building i386 software :/09:30
DocScrutinizerwtf my Pentium Dualcore isn't a I386 compatible CPU anymore??09:30
Pradeepso do you prefer 32bit hardware09:30
Gh0stymost just screw you ... you have 64 bit oh thats not (yet) supported09:31
Gh0stylike this flasher thing09:31
Gh0stycommon half of the pcs in the homes are now 64 bit ...09:31
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DocScrutinizerso what?09:32
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Gh0styI installed my windows 64 bit and my linux 64 bit, got 4G mem in most machines so at least they can use it ...09:32
Gh0styotherwise its a waste of the hardware :p09:32
DocScrutinizeryou don't say they forgot how to work with 32bit instruction set?09:32
Gh0stybut on that part windows is better then linux09:32
Gh0styfor some reason they compile everything with 64 bit architecture09:33
Gh0stydespite the fact that a browser does not really have any benefit from this (to name one app) I think09:33
DocScrutinizerhell an i7 probably still could emulate 8088 with proper microcode09:34
Gh0styon windows you see beautifully some stuff running 32, others 64 ... on ubuntu in particular you see all kinds of problems comming from 32 bit apps they want to force in 64 bit mode09:34
Gh0stylol ok sorry my previous expression was maybe malformed ... :)09:34
Gh0stylet me put it this way then:09:34
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Gh0stythey should stop making ONLY i386 stuff09:34
Pradeepi think i agree there but but 64bit apps dont qork on i386 system even widows09:34
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, ubuntu is caca from this ass
Gh0styat least package it also for x6409:35
DocScrutinizeror for my take on buntkuh09:35
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Gh0styyeah ok ... :p09:36
Gh0styalready figured that you are a purist :)09:36
Gh0styI don't particularry like ubuntu that much, but in the end my debian unstable looked a lot like it but less integrated09:36
Gh0styso a couple of years back I switched my desktop and laptop to ubuntu09:37
Gh0styservers however stay debian :)09:37
TermanaGh0sty, I don't understand wtf your talking about. Ubuntu doesn't compile for i386 at all09:37
DocScrutinizerthe problem is Mr Shuttleworth and his canonical mafia not only integrated, but thought they can own linux and reinvent it. Even worse, they were successfull on this evil plan09:38
Gh0styyes there is the issue with the company behind it yes ...09:39
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Gh0stybut I'm not that much interested in politics09:39
DocScrutinizernow as much poor mislead nitwits think Canonical invented linux and called it buntkuh, as there are morons who think Gates invented GUI09:40
DocScrutinizeror, for a popular example: ...who think internet == http://09:41
Gh0styhehe :)09:41
Gh0styyeah well thats the younger generation I think09:41
Gh0stysooo clean :p09:41
Gh0styfresh firmware :)09:42
Gh0stynow lets do the emmc09:42
TermanaDocScrutinizer: tell me again why you are calling it buntkuh?09:42
DocScrutinizerbuntkuh a checkered cow09:42
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DocScrutinizercorrectly named Fleckvieh09:43
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Pradeepnope apple invented the gui09:47
Gh0styok ...09:48
Gh0styafter the emmc update09:48
Gh0styall menus have blocks09:48
Gh0styin stead of text09:48
Gh0styand colors are all fucked09:48
DocScrutinizernot even that. Xerox Palo Alto research center invented GUI09:48
DocScrutinizerand the mouse09:48
Gh0styflash attempt number 209:51
korhojoaany of you guys lost your microusb?09:53
korhojoamine is failing09:53
Gh0styNOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first, then the eMMC image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image!09:54
DocScrutinizerso mouse was invented not by PARC09:54
Gh0styeurgh what?09:54
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: screw that09:54
Gh0stythe device will reboot after you flash the fiasco09:54
Gh0styI should interrupt that boot process??09:54
DocScrutinizerproper instruction is: if you want to flash eMMC/VANILLA, the di that first, omit -R in flasher cmd, power down N900 by removing battery after flashing, then flash COMBINED after that09:55
Gh0styso first the emmc and then the combined? :o09:57
Gh0styah yes the -R is reboot09:57
Gh0stydoh stupid manual!09:58
DocScrutinizeryes, and stupid users who did a rollback on my edits, just because they thought they know better. "I can *READ* and in it's written you *MUST* do the other way round. Jorg, we don't accept your corrections"09:59
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korhojoawell aren't we harsh today10:00
Venemohi guys10:00
Gh0stywell he is right10:00
Gh0styso can't blame him10:00
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* Gh0sty nominees DocScrutinizer as help of the day10:01
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Gh0styif you come to fosdem its already 2 beers waiting for you ;p10:01
* korhojoa nominates DocScrutinizer as "most like a #debian user"10:02
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DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: what's your problem?10:07
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DocScrutinizer(rollback) see >> 22:56, 19 June 2010 (Talk) (21,483 bytes) (It seems that you should flash the fiasco then the emmc, not the other way around...)<< and also >> 16:16, 11 June 2010 Joerg rw (Talk | contribs) (21,483 bytes) (→Flashing the eMMC in the N900:  sequence changed, though if really not booting it doesn't matter)<<;   >> 22:09, 29 June 2010 Joerg10:44
DocScrutinizerrw (Talk | contribs) (22,315 bytes) (Undo revision 36095 by (Talk) It seems?? Please get higher competence and better rationale before correcting my edits)<<  and  >>12:10, 30 June 2010 Mohammad7410 (Talk | contribs) (22,272 bytes) (Undo revision 36377 by Joerg rw (Talk))<<  in You also might want to check IRC log of this chan, same period of time, for10:44
DocScrutinizerextended discussions of the topic, all coming to the final result ""for now the sequence eMMC(VANILLA) first, *THEN* rootfs(COMBINED) is the more failsafe method"10:44
Venemoafaik the sequence doesn't matter as long as you don't boot up between them. right?10:48
RobbieThe1stI wonder... I don't think flashing the emmc, rebooting, then (attempting to) flash the combined image would hurt anything... It just wouldn't actually -boot- correctly inbetween10:49
RobbieThe1stAnd as the rootfs/combined image copies over all needed optfs files on first boot...10:49
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DocScrutinizerI corrected the wiki, did an undo, I did an undo on the undo, MohammadAG did an undo on the undo on the undo. I explained to MohammadAG why this isn't really a good idea, his comment was WTTE "you can do an undo to the undo to the undo to the undo, *I* won't undo my undo anyway"10:50
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: that's exactly the rationale why I changed the recommended sequence in wiki10:51
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: if you do it the other way round, an accidental boot in between (that's actually easy to happen) will ruin everything10:52
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DocScrutinizera possible reason why you should flash COMBINED *first* is, it *might* install a new NOLO version and/or other updated system components that have new functions to deal with changes in eMMC setup, so a new VANILLA img would need those new functions. Anyway *for now* - i.e. with the VANILLA img we got now - this is not the case, and the sequence eMMC/VANILLA *first* (don't boot though it doesn't instantly break if you do accidentally), THEN10:57
DocScrutinizerrootfs/COMBINED is _clearly_ the better instruction to give10:57
DocScrutinizerI can't be arsed to edit wiki a third time though10:57
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RobbieThe1stFixed for you11:10
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Loomgot my n900 2 days ago and i still haven't figure out where the delete key is11:12
Loomany help?11:12
RobbieThe1stIt's like shift+backspace11:14
RobbieThe1stOr alt+backspace11:14
Loomye shift backspace is11:15
RobbieThe1stJust checked. It's shift+backspace, though beware that it might not work on -all- applications11:15
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: still here?11:16
Gh0stypost times out in 10 minutes11:17
Gh0stywill post it on my blog later :)11:18
Loom1 more question. how do you close a dialog or channel window in xchat ?11:18
Gh0styhmm however I could first check if the images are there ... thats a plan :)11:18
Gh0styrevision 1.1 comming up :P11:18
DocScrutinizerstill here, yes11:18
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TermanaGive us a high five, just aced a test11:20
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: s/ wait a minute and //11:24
DocScrutinizerLoom: there's a [   x   ] button on bottom of the chan-tabs list, in my xchat11:25
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: also the most safe method is to first plug USB, then insert battery. Rationale: sometimes device boots up on inserting battery11:26
Loomin n900?11:26
DocScrutinizerlardman: morning11:26
lardmanhi DocScrutinizer11:26
DocScrutinizerLoom: yes11:26
Loomfucked up the colors can.t see shit wait11:27
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KotCzarnywho wants to test my visualizer?11:32
Loomthat issue because you have the channel switcher in tabs mode i guess11:32
Loomi can't find an x on tree mode11:33
Loomthx tho11:33
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KotCzarnyshameless plug warning11:35
KotCzarnyextras-devel: apt-get install osc11:35
Venemohi NooBmonk3y11:35
KotCzarnyreport any issues with install, features, etc11:35
NooBmonk3yMorning alls!11:36
NooBmonk3yhey Ven!11:36
* NooBmonk3y is preparing to go back to windows today :P ubuntu has been fun, but missing photoshop :P11:36
KotCzarnyphotoshop is overrated11:36
KotCzarnyand pricey11:37
KotCzarnydo you support paid apps?11:37
VenemoNooBmonk3y: good news:
NooBmonk3ylol thats a random question for a sunday morning ... i support apps that work for me :)11:37
NooBmonk3yyay! well done Ven!11:37
VenemoNooBmonk3y: you can btw use gimp or wine for photoshop11:38
KotCzarnynoobmok3y: just using them is supporting11:38
NooBmonk3ywine just doesnt seem to always work, and i cant get my head around gimp and scripts etc11:38
KotCzarnyanother way: virtualbox + photoshop11:38
comawhiteonscreen german keyboard is weird11:38
KotCzarnyworks nicely11:38
KotCzarnyand doesn't need to dualboot11:39
VenemoNooBmonk3y: gimp is the same thing, just has a bit different ui11:39
KotCzarnyand leave cozy linux shell11:39
NooBmonk3yKotCzarny, if i had a decent enough pc i woulda just run ubuntu virtualized, but i dont :p and windows has got more of what i need at the mo :)11:39
NooBmonk3yi do however have an older pc i may set back up with buntu one day11:39
KotCzarnybut remember, your safety is at the stake11:39
KotCzarnywhat if they start checking peoples pcs?11:39
comawhitetook a long time to find the 'ß' key11:39
KotCzarnyand confiscating any with illegal software?11:39
NooBmonk3yillegal? :) - i have a full copy of adobe cs5 and windows lol11:40
KotCzarnygood for you11:40
KotCzarnythen i have no more questions11:40
NooBmonk3yhehe :P11:40
KotCzarnyuse what works for you11:40
KotCzarnyyou have old pc and expensive software11:41
KotCzarnywhich is unlikely combination11:41
NooBmonk3ycos i used to have a good pc 6 months ago11:41
KotCzarnywhich means you either lie11:41
NooBmonk3yi moved out and left my pc with my brother11:41
KotCzarnyor are lazy11:41
NooBmonk3yfamily pc ;)11:41
NooBmonk3ymove out  = no money ;)11:41
KotCzarnyfamily pc and notebook for all!11:41
NooBmonk3yback in a bit!11:42
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alteregoI have many computers, but I really only use netbook, notebook and N90011:42
KotCzarnyi use my x40 the most11:42
alteregoI'm looking for something to use my desktop as, thinking of turning it into a media system.11:43
KotCzarnyand n900 as a phone + game console11:43
threshthere's like 3 games for n90011:44
KotCzarnynot true11:44
KotCzarnyjust compile one yourself -> done11:44
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: not fixed for me, sorry. The description still is misleading. Compare  to
KotCzarnyand now it's one more with venemo's addition11:45
Gh0sty @ DocScrutinizer11:45
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Gh0styput it all in functions so now if you want to change the order ... :p11:45
Gh0stynext up: going to make it possible to define the EMMC and ROOT images :)11:45
Gh0stybut first a shower :p11:45
RobbieThe1stDocScrutinizer: I'm not sure what you want there...11:45
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Venemothresh: just for you :)
thresh;) thx11:47
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Termanahey crashanddie_11:47
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: "extra comments..." ?? :-D11:48
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Gh0styah yes :)11:48
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Gh0stythats the space where i want to define "parameter -R root image location and -E emmc location11:48
Gh0styor something11:48
Gh0stywill get fixed after shower ;)11:48
comawhitehow much will watching an avi cause on the battery?11:49
DocScrutinizerquite a bit11:49
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comawhiteaww nuts11:49
KotCzarnyif it's over 50% cpu it's going to dry out fast11:49
KotCzarnyrun top in another window or any status bar cpu visualizer11:50
comawhitei don't have the phone yet, probably won't until monday, fucking usps >.<11:50
comawhitehave to wait the full 8 days >.<11:51
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GNUtoo|laptophi, what program is responsible of that:
GNUtoo|laptopand what dbus calls?11:53
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alteregoUse dbus monitor and find out yourself?11:55
lardmanhow does (Extras) promotion work for packages that something relies on?11:55
lardmani.e. deps11:55
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: read -p "$*"  probably isn't what you want to do11:55
Gh0stywell its just some old junk code i copied :p11:55
Gh0styi'll have to check later11:55
Gh0styjust recovering my backup right now first :)11:55
alteregolardman, I thought deps were dragged in11:55
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Gh0styDocScrutinizer: thats why its also a timed pastebin :p11:57
Gh0stythe final version will be put on my blog ...11:57
Gh0stythis one is a "fast first write"11:57
lardmanalterego: yes I think they are, I'm wondering whether deps can be upgraded and how they are then pulled in in their upgraded form (i.e. after the main package has gone in already)11:58
Gh0styalso the motto why I run linux: script once, never do again :)11:58
Venemolardman: if a package is promoted to Extras, any lib that it depends on is also promoted11:58
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lardmanand if you subsequently upgrade some of those deps11:59
lardmanI'm thinking of mBarcode, and the plugins11:59
lardmanhow to release new versions of the plugins and for them to end up in Extras too11:59
RobbieThe1stGh0sty: Ain't -that- the truth11:59
lardmanI guess they need to be promoted explicitly12:00
lardmanok that's fine12:00
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alteregolardman: yeah, I'm pretty sure they do too :)12:00
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lardmanok that's fine, just thought I should check12:02
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Gh0stydamn I would never have realised I have 300M of software installed (at least thats the memory required to re-download my apps)12:13
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lardmanpresumably they don't think it will all end in drowning then12:31
DocScrutinizererr, anybody claiming BL-5J is a LiPo _Polymer_ LiIon cell?12:31
RST38ha moment12:32
RST38hlardman:fire seems to experience a renessance12:32
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RST38hTry flood,fire,disease,earthquake,nuclear,antichrist,asteroid12:33
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RST38hAntichrist is a virtual no-show12:33
RST38hSo is the asteroid though12:34
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: 300M? seems rather reasonably lean nowadays :-)12:36
Gh0stywell not going to install the power kernel for starters and a couple others :P12:38
Gh0styfirst take a backup after the clean reinstall12:38
Gh0stythen install power kernel again :)12:38
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chadiHello world. I was going through the transitions.ini thread, and was applying a few to try, but at a certain point, I got stuck to one transition file, and even if I replace it with the original, or with any other transitions file, I don't see a difference anymore. What went wrong? I didn't apply any theme12:54
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Venemochadi: maybe the new ini is wrong, thus HD falls back to the previous one13:00
Venemochadi: if you reboot, that may help too13:00
chadiwell, the point is that I am rolling back to the original one which is not wrong13:01
chadiyeah bus is there a solution that does not involve rebooting?13:01
Venemoopen a root terminal13:03
Venemo'killall hildon-desktop'13:03
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chaditried that, it messes up my phone application (no longer rotates)13:06
chadithank you anyway13:12
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sivanghello maemoers13:16
lardmanhi sivang13:18
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DocScrutinizeranybody looked closer at /sys/power/idcode ?13:44
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sivanghey lardman13:45
DocScrutinizermight this be the true device serial# ?13:45
* lardman wonders why gnuplot-nox is taking soooo long to unpack on his Ubuntu machine13:45
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DocScrutinizerIDCODE: 4b7ae02f13:46
DocScrutinizerProduction ID: 00000000 00000000 000000cc cafeb7ae13:46
DocScrutinizerDie ID: 0c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f6000413:46
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* lardman is forced to reboot and use MATLAB as gnuplot is holding up installing Octave13:48
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DocScrutinizersunday game: do a `cat /sys/power/idcode|grep Die` and post here :-)14:12
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DocScrutinizerDie ID: 18005014 040361c2 00000000 129e000414:12
jacekowskiIDCODE: 4b7ae02f14:12
jacekowskiProduction ID: 00000000 00000000 000000cc cafeb7ae14:12
jacekowskiDie ID: 0f01f00f 04036abf 00000000 4e38000414:12
DocScrutinizerDie ID: 0c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f6000414:13
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DocScrutinizerIDCODE and Production ID seem always the same14:14
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DocScrutinizerwe got already 4 Die IDs though now14:15
MohammadAGDie ID: 0101701d 04036817 00000000 232c000414:15
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* noobmonk3y waves14:16
noobmonk3ylo alls14:16
DocScrutinizerlo noobmonk3y14:16
noobmonk3yhey doc :) - having a good wkend?14:16
DocScrutinizerHC needs to learn to show Die ID :-D14:16
noobmonk3ywhats a die id?14:16
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noobmonk3ylo Venemo14:16
DocScrutinizerobviously a serial# of some chip Die14:16
Venemohey noobmonk3y14:17
MohammadAGhey noobmonk3y14:17
noobmonk3ywhy is it whenever i hear Die, i think of the Simpsons... "Die Bart Die"14:17
noobmonk3yhey Mo :014:17
* MohammadAG remembers Die from germany14:17
MohammadAGwhen I was there, all ads had Die in them14:18
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Venemothat's because Germans want you to die14:18
Venemoin reality, 'die' is a pronoun in German :)14:18
MohammadAGthe i think14:19
Gh0styoh btw you might know if it's true DocScrutinizer ... someone told me that if you hook n900 up to a pc and not pick storage or pc suite mode (so just tap next to the menu) it will only charge at 100mA in stead of 500mA if you pick either?14:19
DocScrutinizerour beer is frequently "hell"14:19
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: not sure about it14:19
Gh0styhe got that from a guy working at nokia itself14:20
Gh0stybut perhaps thats been fixed by pr 1.2 or 1.314:20
Gh0styi got the advice at the 1.1 times ... :p14:20
DocScrutinizeryou can find out easily, by watching the actual charge current flowing into the batery: bq27200.sh14:20
Gh0stywhere is that script ? :/14:20
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DocScrutinizerdunno if ShadowJK wants to publish the URL14:23
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: you should invoke that script via ssh over wlan, and lock your screen14:24
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DocScrutinizerotherwise too much of the 500mA expected will go into system to power backlight etc14:24
DocScrutinizerinvoke with parameter 10, to get continuous listing14:25
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DocScrutinizermA col, - is discharge14:27
DocScrutinizerTTE is Time To Empty for cell, TTF corresponding to charge-complete14:27
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DocScrutinizerRSOC are % of capacity left, as seen by battery gauge chip - sometimes this differs largely from what bme thinks it is14:28
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DocScrutinizerthe mV and mA are rather correct anyway14:30
MohammadAGbme is crap14:30
MohammadAGwhere's the script again?14:30
DocScrutinizera full battery has >4000mV, an almost empty one <360014:30
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I expect the value given out by the script to be less than bme right?14:30
DocScrutinizerwhen the chip got out of sync, e.g. by swapping battery, then it can have random bogus numbers for all those calculated values14:31
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DocScrutinizerthis chip is supposed to be mounted to battery cell, not inside the device14:32
MohammadAGLOL I restarted bme14:33
MohammadAGbattery went from full to red14:33
DocScrutinizerbme is nuts14:34
DocScrutinizerbme even writes shit to CAL - go figure14:34
crashanddie_bme is the perfect example of an app that should have received tons of unit testing and robustness checking, but didn't.14:34
alteregocrashanddie_: do you know that for a fact?14:37
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: the battery chip is a chip designed to be part of a battery pack?14:43
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MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, why is the browser non-composited by hildon?14:43
Scorcereris it possible to install new protocol to the bullitin communicator on N900 ?14:43
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: um14:44
timeless_mbpyou do realize you're asking about code that's 3 years dead, right?14:44
BCMMScorcerer: you mean the conversations app?14:44
DocScrutinizerBCMM: yes14:44
Scorcereri think so14:44
BCMMScorcerer: it is indeed14:44
timeless_mbpScorcerer: there are only 20 or so such available for download in extras14:44
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: must i repeat myself?14:44
BCMMScorcerer: the conversations app is the thing that does SMS, skype IM, jabber and so on14:44
MohammadAGYes, I do realize that14:45
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MohammadAGdoes it matter?14:45
Scorcererthat was what i've been looking for, thanks14:45
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: a quick search shows that using _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED_WINDOW gives you a perf win14:45
timeless_mbpbecause it tells the window manager to stop screwing with you14:45
timeless_mbpgiven that browsers need to not be screwed with14:45
timeless_mbpit makes sense14:45
BCMMMohammadAG: does that mean that the batteries themselves have no built-in overcharge protection and so on?14:45
BCMM(this would influence how scared I am by 3rd party battery chargers)14:46
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, why does it to be not "screwed" with?14:46
* timeless_mbp sends MohammadAG to an English school14:46
DocScrutinizerBCMM: why do you ask MohammadAG ?14:46
timeless_mbpplease come back when you can phrase that in the form of a grammatically correct sentence14:46
* timeless_mbp can't parse it14:47
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm not sure14:47
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: compositing adds cpu overhead and copies and what not14:47
timeless_mbpthe browser needs to be responsive14:47
timeless_mbpand needs to paint  fast14:47
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: afaik for EU a protection chip is mandatory14:49
DocScrutinizerBCMM: bq27200 is no protection chip though14:49
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's no14:52
jacekowskionly thing that is mandatory is that battery will not explode14:52
jacekowskithey don't care how it's done14:52
DocScrutinizerhmm, yes14:52
DocScrutinizeranyway, if you're interested in details: for a nice example14:53
* timeless_mbp kicks acrobat reader14:55
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timeless_mbpit replaced my perfectly working builtin pdf reader14:55
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: use foxit reader14:55
timeless_mbpjacekowski: does it run on osx?14:56
jacekowskiprobably yes14:56
jacekowskihmm, no14:56
BCMM"use foxit reader" - nah, it's simpler than that: don't use adobe reader14:56
ShadowJKfor UL certification the battery needs to be part of a system with under/overcharge protection afaik14:57
BCMMnothing else sucks to a comparable extent14:57
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timeless_mbpBCMM: sadly my web browsers are stupid15:00
timeless_mbpso 'don't use adobe' is hard15:00
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, heh, 4.28 overcharge seems low and 2.3 overdischarge threshold seems very low :)15:00
* ShadowJK remembers back when you could tell netscape what program to use to view pdf files :-(15:01
timeless_mbp● Do not use the battery in other than the following conditions. Otherwise, the battery might cause heat generation, damage.15:01
timeless_mbpCharge: 0°C ~ +45°15:01
RST38hstill can, no?15:01
timeless_mbpso, the n900 shouldn't be used in finland for 8-10 months of the year?15:01
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SwedeMikedo you regularily charge it in cold?15:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: see page 6515:02
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: 5.2 Required Protection Circuit15:03
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crashanddie_MohammadAG: how's the media player going?15:09
crashanddie_MohammadAG: sorry I haven't been able to check up much on progress, been quite busy?15:09
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crashanddie_s/busy?/fucking busy!/15:10
infobotcrashanddie_ meant: MohammadAG: sorry I haven't been able to check up much on progress, been quite fucking busy!15:10
* ShadowJK forgets exactly at what voltage Li-Ion starts degrading badly15:11
ShadowJKbut iirc it's right around 2.3?15:11
DocScrutinizerBCMM: see 7.2.17, p.68 -> overcharge completely charged cell @ 4.5V for 2h: no fire, no smoke, no explosion15:11
ShadowJKI'd like to see results of repetitive testing, not just one-shot tests :)15:12
ShadowJK(as damage from overcharge and overdischarge is cumulative)15:13
jacekowskiit will just vent15:13
jacekowskiand stop working15:13
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: after that test, there will be no further tests with this DUT :-P15:13
DocScrutinizeronly test left over: how to get rid of a killed LiIon15:13
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: using that other phone as an example is kinda ironic15:13
timeless_mbpgiven that people here were present when it decided to smoke15:14
timeless_mbpmy n900 contributed :)15:14
DocScrutinizerBS, nothing smoked15:14
timeless_mbpit did something15:14
* timeless_mbp can't remember who was present15:14
DocScrutinizerit got hot, as it is supposed to, until the charge pump feeding 500++mA to N900 switched down correctly, @ 120°C IIRC15:15
jacekowskiwhat would happen if you would apply 1kV onto that battery15:15
jacekowskiwould it explode or not15:16
ShadowJKthe cool thing is that there was actually people who could tell if it was supposed to do thator not :D15:16
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, kinda odd how no charge termination current is mentioned15:17
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DocScrutinizerthe "you mustn't keep it floating" was an 'inofficial' advice to me from cell manufs15:18
DocScrutinizerand obviously Nokia bme designers didn't ever hear about that advice15:18
ShadowJKI've never actually seen proper specs that didn't specify termination :)15:18
ShadowJKNo I think they did, they just failed at implementing it15:18
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DocScrutinizerquite possible15:19
ShadowJKor rather, the people who made the hardware didn't talk to the people who made bme who didn't talk to the people that made the usb code in kernel15:19
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DocScrutinizerthey had no DocScrutinizer to do that kind of diplomatic mission15:20
DocScrutinizeractually most companies don't see the need for such a position15:21
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ShadowJKSomehow i get the impression it's kinda bad in the first place to have 4 people each working on their own tyre for the car and with no visibility into what the other 3 dudes are doing, and adding a fifth guy to run in betweem these guys seems like a band-aid fix :)15:24
zeltakmorning guys..been busy latley so havent had time to hang to much in the irc :) im having issues again with my n90015:24
luke-jrGh0sty: "ofcourse" nothing. all things *do* work in x86_64 (there is no such thing as x64), although idiot companies like Nokia refuse to provide the source required to exercise fair use15:25
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zeltakatfer i charge it at night it the morning its freezed. i cant do anything unless i take out the battery, it only happens after a ful nights charge..anyone encountered anything like this?15:25
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ShadowJKThat sounds very strange. Haven't heard of anyone experiencing that15:25
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: Actually, IIRC the newer CPUs have all "forgotten" 16-bit ;)15:26
luke-jrand it's stupid to demand I install my OS twice (64-bit and 32-bit)15:26
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* luke-jr is glad he has a 64-bit flasher15:27
jacekowski64bit is a failure15:27
jacekowskimost of stuff i have don't work on 64bit windows15:28
luke-jrjacekowski: that's a Windows fail15:28
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luke-jrand/or you just use crap15:29
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: yes, some new CPUs emulate 16bit cmds when they run into them15:29
DocScrutinizerthrow exception and a lib is responsible to do the emulation15:29
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luke-jrthat's not the CPU emulating15:30
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Gh0stylol seriously?15:31
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Gh0stybut ok running still 16 bit stuff on a new computer ... makes no sense15:31
Gh0styunless for embedded development :p15:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: it's not like 4 guys doing the same and not knowing of each other. It's more like the guy mountng the tyres tries to understand what the tyre manufacturer tells him about rubber vulcanization. They don't even talk the same language15:32
Gh0stycouple of months ago tried to debug a problem with a pascal programm giving an error on an industrial pc which got upgraded by a desktop15:32
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Gh0styfor time calculation pascal uses cpu speed15:32
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Gh0styand when your cpu is fast enough you get an overflow :P15:32
Gh0styits a known bug, there is even a patcher for it on the internet :)15:33
Gh0stycrazy infact that they didnt count on the fact your cpu could get too fast :P15:33
Gh0stythose industrial pcs are type 486 - p1 and the pc they replaced it with was a p3 700Mhz or something :)15:34
Gh0stylucky they still found such a fast pc with an isa slot ... :)15:34
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you need an ambassador who did rubber vulcanization *and* handling a impact wrench, to translate between them15:35
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: especially sw-devels like to take assumptions about how hw works. They can't imagine it doesn't work like they think it _should_15:37
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and they never get the idea something could be done in hw that they can do in a friggin monster of sw system as well15:38
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: see bme15:38
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: see BT/Wlan coexistence15:39
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: see crippled driver for LP552315:40
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: see xprot15:41
ShadowJKI think the biggest probkem with bluetooth is that, based on current progress, it will reach day to day usable stability in about 10 years after it's obsolete :)15:41
ShadowJKbluetooth in general, not just n900 :)15:41
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DocScrutinizerotoh sometimes EE is blind to synergy effects coming from sw side. Example: ALS which is redundant to front camera15:43
DocScrutinizermaybe, depending on specs of both15:43
ShadowJKuh the camera probably uses enormous amounts of power :)15:44
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DocScrutinizeryeah, but the way ALS works now, it wouldn't matter too much, given the camera can power-up in 1ms, take one frame, and power-down15:45
DocScrutinizerI've seen designs using frontcam as ALS15:45
ShadowJKals has bigger range too :)15:45
DocScrutinizeryeah, and they have a second sensor inside ALS to substract the IR from that too wide spectrum :-P15:46
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ShadowJKyou even see digital cameras with ALS on same side as lens :)15:46
DocScrutinizeror did you talk about LUX range15:46
ShadowJKyeah lux range15:47
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DocScrutinizerI think you got the picture anyway, no need to throw more examples at you15:48
DocScrutinizerthey are just examples after all, no comprehensive list of any kind15:48
ShadowJKSpeaking of cameras...15:49
ShadowJKanyone thought about putting a small peltier element near the sensor?15:49
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DocScrutinizerthere are such camera designs15:50
DocScrutinizernot in mobile phones though15:51
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DocScrutinizerfor a good reason15:51
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SpeedEvilThere is no need for cooling.15:51
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DocScrutinizerfor ultra low noise you like to15:52
SpeedEvilThere are ambient temp sensors as found in some cameras that will do >>30 second exposures15:52
SpeedEvilconsumer cameras15:52
SpeedEvilwell - prosumer15:52
ShadowJKoh I just noticed how noise free last year's new year's fireworks I videod on n900 was15:53
ShadowJKand I remember it was like -35C that night :)15:53
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yeah, but that sat has some liquid helium in a tank, to cool down the sensor to ~0k :-D15:53
DocScrutinizerK even15:54
SpeedEvilyes - it matters if you're taking long exposures - and critically - have a CCD which has a readout noise in the low single photoelectrons.15:55
SpeedEvilIf you're reading out at video rates - then the noise is huge - dozens or hundreds of photoelectrons.15:56
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DocScrutinizerbottomline: not really feasible for consumer electronics15:56
SpeedEvilWell - there are integrally amplified chips - which are cool.15:57
SpeedEvil TI's impactron series15:57
SpeedEvila solid-state electron-multiplier15:58
SpeedEvil(stupidly expensive)15:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: what's your Die ID? the one with coolest hex string number will win today's lottery :-D15:59
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SpeedEvilIDCODE: 4b7ae02f16:00
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DocScrutinizerthat one never changes16:00
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SpeedEvilDie ID: 10015019 040360df 00000000 35c2000416:01
SpeedEvilDie ID: 0c006012 040364fb 00000000 3876000416:01
DocScrutinizermeh, no leetspeak :-/16:01
SpeedEvilthis is the power supply chip ID?16:02
SpeedEvilwell - twl*16:02
DocScrutinizerI guess so16:02
DocScrutinizerGAIA twl403016:02
DocScrutinizerway better than IMEI :-P16:03
DocScrutinizer(*hint* *hint*)16:03
DocScrutinizerHEH! I also got a 040364fb16:04
DocScrutinizerDie ID: 0c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f6000416:05
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* RST38h being attacked by Turkish spammers16:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: hmm, maybe it's SoC aka OMAP3430, not twl4030?16:18
RST38hSo, what are you all dying from tonight?16:18
SpeedEvilRST38h: snow16:18
derfDelicious foods.16:18
SpeedEvilOr just general being pissed off.16:18
RST38hsnow - check. foods - check. bile - check.16:20
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RST38hWhy the hellam I still alive? =)16:20
SpeedEvilMaybe you are not.16:20
derfRST38h: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.16:20
MohammadAGcrashanddie, nicolai got the renderer working, it updates metadata and can play/pause or skip16:20
RST38hbadder, at least.16:20
MohammadAG(pause actually stops for some reason, minor problem)16:21
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I also got Share via email and BT working, but we need Mafw Source support to populate the list16:22
MohammadAGOh and those things that alterego calls delegates would be nice :P16:22
RST38hMohammad: MediaPlayer+?16:23
MohammadAGone more thing16:24
MohammadAGstarting any Qt application when the desktop is in portrait mode causes a segfault16:24
MohammadAGto test it, do a sleep 10; nameofqtapp in terminal16:24
MohammadAGthen start the phone app and flip to portrait16:25
MohammadAGsee a segfault16:25
DocScrutinizerhehe, famous last words: x does y for some reason. Minor problem.16:25
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* alterego tries to think of a name for his new "accounts" package.16:28
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SpeedEvilalterego: MoNay.16:32
SpeedEvilalterego: More seriously - what sort of accounts thing? I was looking for something slightly less trivial than 'siggy'16:33
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alteregoSpeedEvil: well, it's a custom build web based accouting system for a specific company.16:36
alteregoTo track their customers and status of customer accounts, also sends out automatic monthly/periodical invoices etc.16:36
SpeedEvilAh - I see.16:36
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alteregoOr notifies a member of staff via email that an invoice is ready for print & postage.16:36
SpeedEvilI'm looking for a personal finance solution.16:37
alteregoI just use gnumeric :)16:37
SpeedEvilyeah - ideally I'd like something that worked sanely on the phone.16:38
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alteregoI wonder if anyone does an online personal finance service.16:39
alteregoThose kinds of apps are generally lacking good quality on mobile devices.16:39
alteregoa "MeeGo Cash" app would be cool.16:39
alteregoI'll write it in my app ideas list :)16:40
SpeedEvilI want something more than just chequebook.16:40
SpeedEvilAble to cope with multiple accounts, and cash, and upcoming bills and payments.16:40
alteregoSure, would be realy cool with OCR, you could use it to read in reciepts and graph your spending.16:40
alteregoYeah, that would be cool. Also, budget management, so you can clearly see how much cash you've got left to spend (outside of bills)16:41
aepalterego: s,on mobile devices,,16:41
alteregoAnd add "ghost" periodical budgets for say, bills that happen quarterly, but you need to set a bit aside each month.16:41
SpeedEvilMy ultimately ideal one would have a product database, so I can scan off a can of beans at home - hit 'trash', and it reduces my home stock of beans by one.16:41
Scorcererhow (un)stable are applications in extras-testing ? i mean, with all those warnings that one should use only extras repository i'm not entirely sure i should use it, but on the other hand i'm using gentoo-unstable on my machines so little digging and ustability is normal for me..16:41
SpeedEvilAnd adds it to a shopping list.16:41
alteregoSpeedEvil: that would be cool.16:41
SpeedEvilScorcerer: generally not16:42
SpeedEvilScorcerer: In general - they are fairly stable, and most instabilities can be remedied by uninstalling16:42
alteregoEven if it was as simple as, you scan the items and say what they are and how much they cost when you get home from a shop, then consecutive scans will know when you scan it :)16:42
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SpeedEvilalterego: yes16:42
Scorcererah, so good enough for me :D thanks16:42
SpeedEvilalterego: though added p2p goodness16:42
alteregoSpeedEvil: yeah, you mean host an online product db for people to upload/share to? :)16:43
SpeedEvilScorcerer: using the 'backup' application is not a bad idea - you may also drop your phone in the toilet16:43
SpeedEvilalterego: yes.16:43
alteregoYeah, I'd definitely do that too.16:43
SpeedEvilalterego: Of course, this can lead to feature creep.16:43
alteregoLets do this! :)16:43
Scorcereryea, we don't want that :P16:43
alteregoIn fact, that'd make a nice xmas holiday project.16:44
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SpeedEvilfor example - would be nice to have that info tied to the bacode, and exportable to a diet program16:45
alteregoYeah, you've inspired me, it would be a damn good use of my "semantic core".16:45
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GAN900Nasty day to be at work.16:47
SpeedEvil - was sort-of-interesting, but diddn't really do enough16:48
SpeedEvilI couldn't get it to show me my upcoming balance taking into account already entered bill due dates and income - which is a pretty core feature16:48
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alteregoWould you like to jot down features you'd like to see? and I'll start thinking about the core.16:52
alteregoI should be able to start hacking on it next week :)16:53
alteregoAnyhow, gotta go to the shop now.16:53
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RST38hGreat news for Alien franchise purists, as conceptual artist H.R. Giger has been confirmed as a contributor to the prequel that Ridley Scott is set to begin shooting in February.16:55
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DocScrutinizermuhaha, first all chinese spam mail :-P16:58
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DocScrutinizerthanks to my ex-colleagues of Taipei my spammassassin thinks this is something possibly worth reading X-P16:59
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MohammadAGand once again, a nice youtube application is made worse by custom widgets to play the video17:19
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Venemohi again17:21
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Venemohi Tokmob17:24
Tokmobcould someone help with17:24
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Tokmobi want to access my win 7 shared files via wlan17:25
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Tokmoband dont know how17:25
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Tokmobhave tried wizard mounter with no results17:26
Tokmobbut im a noobie17:26
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Tokmobplease :)17:27
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DokterWHi. Having some issues with customising the default menu. I found the menu file: ~/menus/ with the following permissions: 644. I changed them to: 666. Tried to make some changes, but changes didn't get saved and the file has now the old permissions: 644. Any ideas?17:59
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Tokwhile using wizard mounter18:01
Tokmount: mounting // /media/ Remote_Filesystems/Music@ failed: Permission denied18:01
Tokany ideas?18:01
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tank-manwizard mounter mounts my shares in my home/doc directory18:03
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tank-manmaybe it is talking about the permissions on "/media" directory ?18:03
Toki'm not sure if i know what you mean18:04
mlpugDokterW, maybe it dislikes 666 as its the "devils figure". could it be file ownership issue?18:06
tank-manTok, can you see the windows shares from a linux desktop ?18:06
tank-manor even a windows desktop18:06
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Toktank-man, from what desktop?18:08
tank-manfrom a differnt pc, can you see the windows shares?18:08
Tokfrom my laptop yeah18:09
Tokwin7 on it18:09
joppuTok: are you using homegroup?18:10
joppucheck "advanced sharing settings"18:10
DokterWmlpug: Hmmm... Haven't tried that yet. I'll give it a go. Thanks.18:10
RST38h"A stationary black cylindrical creature camouflaged as a tree. Rammed into all moving objects at roughly 70 meters per second."18:10
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Tokjoppu any ideas?18:11
Tokim in the advanced sharing settings now18:11
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DokterWmlpug: Most files and folders have the owner user:users, but I've also seen user:root. Might give that a go.18:12
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DokterWmlpug: Nope. Didn't work. :(18:14
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joppuTok: do you have password protected sharing on?18:22
tank-mantok, did you enter a username and password in wizard mounter?18:22
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lardmanurgh, I thought I'd fixed my scanning from an image, but apparently not :(18:25
Tokzi did yes18:25
Tokzwindows user username and password?18:26
tank-manyes, the windows user name and password18:26
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Tokzyes that's what i've done18:27
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Tokzstill the same error18:27
Tokzmount: mounting // /media/ Remote_Filesystems/Music@ failed: Permission denied18:29
Tokzwhat does that /media/ mean?18:29
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tank-manthat is the mount point it is trying to use i think18:30
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Macerwhat does meego have that maemo 5 doesn't? i mean. is it simply and updated ui?18:32
Macerand a newer kernel?18:33
RST38hIt has support from major industrial leaders!18:33
Maceri am just curious because i figured the main thing required by an n900 was a kernel and its modules to get all the hardware working18:33
Macerso why not just replace the ui? :)18:34
Macerusing the current maemo 5 kernel and modules18:34
Macercan't you just build stuff against the current working kernel and modules and create a new ui18:34
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Maceri am only curious because getting all the hardware working on the n900 seems to be the biggest hurdle for nitdroid and meego18:35
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Macerbut all the hardware works in maemo5 so why not just use that base and build off that? all the other stuff like qt already "works" for maemo518:37
RST38hMacer: Because Maemo5 kernel has no support from major industrial leaders?18:37
tank-manisnt that like running linux in a windows with a virtual machine?18:38
jacekowski Macer it's linux thing18:38
jacekowskiMacer: incompatibilities between different versions18:38
Tokzi getting really pissed off right now18:38
Tokzi want to get that file sharing working =(18:38
Macerversions of what? :) just build against the working kernel heh18:39
Macerit is confusing. maybe because i am not a dev18:39
Macerbut i have had some boxes run a kernel for many years without problems18:39
Macereven when installing different WMs18:39
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DocScrutinizerpffff, I'm waiting for the next undo of an undo of an undo of an undo.... Maybe takes a while til MohammadAG notices the changes on ~flashing page18:42
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
DocScrutinizer: a good example why wiki sometimes does NOT work18:43
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Macerwell. found out why one of my boxes went down. guess there was a damn screw on the mboard18:52
Macermust have shorted it18:52
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Macerat least it was a really old box :) guess i can rape the parts and make something with them18:52
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DocScrutinizeryeah, a bird cage19:05
woodong50_______ jo19:05
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dotblankIs running REALLY slow?19:09
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Triscar0what prog is a "must have" for n900 ? :D19:13
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DocScrutinizerhi dos119:14
dos1DocScrutinizer: hi!19:15
infobotfrom memory, xyawn is sleep19:15
infobotgood coffee19:16
DocScrutinizerk, better19:16
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VenemoTriscar0: one such a prog is the game called Puzzle Master19:18
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RST38h(Puzzle Master is written by Venemo)19:20
Triscar0hehe okok19:22
DocScrutinizerpuzzlemaster is awesome19:23
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DocScrutinizerTriscar0: your question is a bit to general19:24
Triscar0is there a site where i can browse apps ?19:24
DocScrutinizererrr, yes?19:25
RST38hand there is also,too19:26
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nox-moin DocScrutinizer19:40
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DocScrutinizernox-: pull your lottery ticket! `cat /sys/power/idcode|grep Die`  -  the most leet hex value will earn a FRUBMARFZ19:45
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dotblankok now this is odd19:47
DocScrutinizerand this is even19:47
dotblankgdk pixbuff exists in my sdk19:47
DocScrutinizersorry, getting silly19:47
dotblankI run ./gdk-pixbuf-csource19:48
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dotblankand I get bash: ./gdk-pixbuf-csource: No such file or directory19:48
dotblankcat ./gdk-pixbuf-csource19:48
dotblankELF(t�44(pHH�44�4�4�4���TT�TTT���```HH�H�  Q�td19:48
dotblankso the file exists......19:48
nox-Die ID: 1001501b 04037d20 00000000 79b4000419:48
nox-dotblank, ldd it19:48
nox-hm ok if maemo has ldd...19:49
dotblankthat works19:49
DocScrutinizerfile should suffice19:49
nox-no `not found'?19:49
dotblankbut bash is messed up or something19:49
dotblankim in the arm sbox btw19:49
DocScrutinizerprobably a x86 ELF19:49
dotblankWhat package has that... hmm19:50
dotblankneed an arm version of it19:50
DocScrutinizerfile ./gdk-pixbuf-csource19:50
dotblankELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped19:51
dotblanklol it is arm19:51
nox-if you're on pc wont you need qemu-arm to run that?19:51
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dotblankwell im in the sbox...19:52
Venemohi again19:52
DocScrutinizerhello again19:52
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dotblankdo I also need to install that in the x86 target19:52
VenemoDocScrutinizer: I was able to solve the problem by manually setting an IP address. seems that for some reason the driver wasn't able to request one with DHCP19:53
dotblankok so I switched to the x86 target and it exists19:53
dotblankwhy won't bash run that elf? and in fact say it doesn't even exist19:54
DocScrutinizercould somebody please toss the cmd that hides chan-join-quit, on e.g. irssi? sth like /conference-mode on19:54
DocScrutinizerVenemo: weird19:54
DocScrutinizerthe syslog clearly said "error in libcryptfoobar"19:54
VenemoDocScrutinizer: weird indeed.19:55
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: you're sure you not accidentally associated to neighbour's AP?19:55
VenemoDocScrutinizer: the dmesg is still full of "rtllib_rx_decrypt: decrypt frame error"19:55
VenemoDocScrutinizer: I'm sure :)19:55
VenemoDocScrutinizer: at Budapest I do connect to a neighbours AP (unprotected wifi), but that goes without issue :P19:56
Venemoanyway, problem solved.19:56
nox-dotblank, you may have some `exec arm binaries with qemu-arm' setup thats messed up (and that i forgot the name of)19:57
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dotblanklol there is no libgdk-pixbuff19:59
dotblankin the maemo package repos20:00
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macmaNanybody know who to talk at nokia to to get osso-media-player open sourced? :)20:40
macmaNtalk to*20:40
macmaNi wonder why it isnt20:40
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alteregoWhat's the point?20:41
alteregoAnyway, a few people are currently writing a clone of the media player.20:41
alteregoWhich is better, :)20:41
javispedroalterego: UNLESS you like Gtk+ ;)20:41
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macmaNwell i happen to like osso quite well and would simply like to patch a few things20:42
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javispedromacmaN: unfortunately it's not going to happen at this point20:43
javispedrounless you have a million dollars..20:43
macmaNbest bet is meego huh20:44
macmaNi'd like to get some life out of this n900 until meego actually arrives20:45
macmaNsome more*20:45
DocWwe can only hope that vlc gets better.20:45
alteregoSpeedEvil: thanks :)20:45
SpeedEvilalterego: There are so many shiny bits possible - but some are probably way out of the scope of an initial porject20:46
alteregoSpeedEvil: sorry, what was supposed to be a simple trip to the shop turned into a massive winter snow adventure because I locked myself out of my flat.20:46
SpeedEvilSnow is fun!20:46
alteregoStill, feature wishlists are always good.20:46
SpeedEvilI've just been clearing snow off my poly-tunnel by moonlight.20:46
SpeedEvilAs I've been feeling lousy today, and diddn't get up till recently20:47
alteregoAuto cash/coin count is a bit, well, out there ;)20:47
SpeedEvilyes - that was simply random ideas.20:47
SpeedEvilSpread cash out on table, no coin overlapping, and just scan n900 over it.20:48
alteregoWould be cool.20:48
SpeedEvilIt's a pretty simpe in principle OCR task20:48
alteregoBut there are lots of different currencies etc.20:48
alteregoSo much to take into account.20:48
SpeedEvilyeah - I was assuming it'd only work for one currency at a time20:48
alteregoWhat if you could use the touch screens pressure sensitivity to weigh your money :D20:48
* alterego chuckles20:49
SpeedEvilThe aim would be to roughly count your cash, not to identify numismatic rarities in your pockets.20:49
SpeedEvilthough I'd love to fit one of those to vending machines.20:50
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GAN900SpeedEvil, hehe, that one's been waiting in the Rolsdex for a while, hasn't it? *g*20:54
berniesince yesterday, gstreamer is whacked on my n900. no sound even during phonecalls. any idea?20:55
bernieI rebooted a couple of times, but no effect. I'm running fremantle 1.320:55
SpeedEvilSound on my n900 has broken - pulseaudio won't start20:55
SpeedEvilI'm on 1.2 here20:55
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SpeedEvilI haven't yet investigated it20:55
GAN900SpeedEvil, "numismatic rarities in your pockets"20:56
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bernieSpeedEvil: does the mediaplayer say "format not supported" when trying to play any mp3?20:57
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SpeedEvilit plays no sound at all21:00
SpeedEvilover the whole device21:00
SpeedEvilpulseaudio does not start21:00
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javispedroSpeedEvil: open root terminal and type something like "pulseaudio --system"21:01
javispedrowatch stdlog+stderr21:02
SpeedEvil****************** INIT DONE ************* E: voice-sidetone.c: Cannot open /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_enable21:02
SpeedEvil then it dies21:02
SpeedEvilwith a segfault21:02
SpeedEvilIt works with power kernel21:02
SpeedEvilI have no idea - I've had no time to diagnose21:03
javispedroiirc you might need to chmod some /sys entries21:03
javispedrocheck /etc/event.d/pulseaudio21:03
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SpeedEvilah - chmod fixed that error - but it still segs21:04
javispedrowell, if you have time, point gdb to it...21:05
javispedroor look for the debug-level cmd line parameter21:05
javispedroor log-level, not really remember.21:05
DocScrutinizeraah, nvm21:06
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SpeedEvilI'm robably just going to flash it21:06
DocScrutinizernever wase a steady bug21:06
DocScrutinizerstrace probably just fine21:07
DocScrutinizergdb bt even better21:08
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SpeedEvilI completely agree - in principle.21:10
DocScrutinizerat very least you could keep a coredump21:11
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SpeedEvilBut I'm in the middle of making presents for christmas, and I'd like music while I'm doing it.21:13
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SpeedEvilProgram received signal SIG57, Real-time event 57.21:13
SpeedEvil0x40399798 in poll () from /lib/
SpeedEvil0x40399798 <poll+104>:cmnr0, #4096; 0x100021:13
SpeedEvil(gdb) c21:13
SpeedEvildoes not enlighten21:13
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javispedroyeah, that should not terminate it -- you can prevent the rt signals from breaking into gdb but don't remember how21:14
javispedro(from the top of my head)21:14
SpeedEvilwell - it's at the same point it cores.21:14
SpeedEvilor moments after21:14
* javispedro agrees with DocS but thinks this being pr1.2 will make it harder to reproduce/debug21:15
RST38hmoo javispedro21:15
nox-handle SIGfoo nostop21:16
javispedrohey RST38h21:16
infobotflashing is, like,
SpeedEvilAnd I have no idea why I'm not being offered 1.321:16
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javispedrothe future, today!21:18
weeedaris there a way to get this working on n900?21:19
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weeedari tried installing via .deb and just got packet incompatible21:21
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SpeedEvilWere the problems with crhome ever fixed?21:23
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (not offered) uninstalled maemo metapkg?21:26
SpeedEvildon't think so21:26
alteregoYou mean the licensing stuff?21:26
SpeedEvilI've not done anything wierd21:26
alteregoThat meant we couldn't distribute it on ?21:26
SpeedEvilalterego: yes21:26
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SpeedEvilBy 'fixed' I mean sorted so it could be, or was externally available21:26
alteregoHaven't heard anything, who was the package maintainer?21:27
SpeedEvildon't remember21:27
alteregoOh, the maintainer had it on his site iirc21:27
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weeedaris there a jabber clientt supporting MUC?21:33
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JaffaSpeedEvil: alterego: the maintainer wasn't interested in us helping talk to the people C&Ding for it to be on maemo.org21:39
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DocScrutinizer51Jaffa: surprise? I gather it's a adridiot project?21:57
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JaffaDocScrutinizer51: jackwski22:22
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Venemohi again guys22:29
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MohammadAGalterego, got a new profile on tmo? :P22:59
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DocScrutinizer51hmm, my new kbd slide sound function even better. It can be disabled :-P23:16
MohammadAGyay, net split23:16
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, would pulling out a microSD card from the N900's slot without the back cover protection thing cause any damage?23:17
ShadowJKcould corrupt the filesystem and/or corrupt entire eraseblocks on the card23:17
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SpeedEvilAlso - it risks a nuclear explosion of between 8 and 14 megatons.23:18
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DocScrutinizer51could even damage the whole card23:18
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, forgot to mention umount23:19
MohammadAGwhat if it was unmounted first?23:19
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DocScrutinizerthen it's mostly safe23:20
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DocScrutinizeruhuh, no netsplit but a scheduled rerouting23:27
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alteregoThat's weird.23:31
alteregoSomeone must be taking the piss MohammadAG23:31
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MohammadAGno, that's his nick, and that ^ is your new nick23:32
alteregoI dunno, I don't like it :P23:33
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alteregoAnyhow, think it's bed time now.23:35
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Pradeepalterego hi tried it today it work23:40
Pradeepbut could not update my app23:40
Pradeepi mean update my phone23:40
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Pradeepalterego, you there23:43
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infobotsomebody said flashing was
MohammadAG<alterego> Anyhow, think it's bed time now.23:44
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Pradeepi connect my n900 via usb to my computer on a LAN23:46
Pradeepit worked but i could not update my firmware23:47
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Pradeepit would always ask me for my preffered connection and LAN was inclusive23:47
PhonicUKhey all23:48
PhonicUKwhats the state of the various PSX emus these days?23:48
Pradeepeven when i did apt-get ugrade it did not update it23:48
Pradeepbut is it possible23:48
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Pradeepany clue23:51
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