IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-12-18

iluminator101	i am surprised i cant play MP3 audio (audio/mpeg) in n900 why???	00:00
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DocScrutinizer	iluminator101: yeah why? tell us! what's the problem?	00:01
Venemo	iluminator101: you should be able to.	00:02
iluminator101	i am trying to listen to mp3 (audio/mpeg) it says its unsupported but it plays other mp3 not this one	00:02
DocScrutinizer	what's the meaning of "mp3 (audio/mpeg)"?	00:03
DocScrutinizer	or... what's the actual name of the file?	00:03
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DocScrutinizer	how do you try to playback it?	00:03
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iluminator101	media player says audio codec unsupported??/	00:05
DocScrutinizer	(/me recalls this secretary that, when asked how she converted these .doc to .pdf, answered "well, I renamed them" :-P)	00:05
iluminator101	how do i find out what exactly this file is	00:05
Sicelo	DocScrutinizer: :P :D	00:06
crashanddie_	DocScrutinizer: I had a screenshot of a PDF pasted in a word document, because word had the "Email to" option	00:06
DocScrutinizer	no idea, send a big thanks letter to Nokia	00:06
iluminator101	thanks for being helpful	00:06
DocScrutinizer	iluminator101: don't start bitching, it's not our fault	00:07
DocScrutinizer	if you know the song's name, you might find a file somewhere on your storage with a somewhat similar name	00:07
Sicelo	illuminator101: in command line, type /file your_file.mp3/	00:07
DocScrutinizer	Sicelo: he doesn't know where your_file.mp3 is and what's the name	00:08
iluminator101	if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem	00:08
DocScrutinizer	iluminator101: you start to be part of the bitching crowd of lemmings	00:09
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Venemo	iluminator101: can you play this file on your desktop?	00:11
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: : he doesn't know where your_file.mp3 is and what's the name	00:11
iluminator101	venemo on vlc i can	00:12
Venemo	iluminator101: try to open that file with some converter then and convert it to regular mp3	00:12
Venemo	iluminator101: I've got no other ideas	00:12
iluminator101	thanks Venemo	00:13
DocScrutinizer	or, if he knows (he must know to playback with vlc) then he refuses to answer my questions, and that clearly disqualifies him, if the bitching didn't already	00:13
DocScrutinizer	actually Sicelo's answer was the best one, but it's a timesink to try and help unresponsive lusers	00:14
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: do you feel like testing a little app?	00:15
DocScrutinizer	depends	00:15
DocScrutinizer	just feel pissed about phototranslator's abyssmal "take photo" function	00:16
Venemo	it is a puzzle game	00:16
DocScrutinizer	so something "better" might be welcome, if it runs on 1.2	00:16
Venemo	should work on 1.2, but you might have to compile it for yourself	00:17
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DocScrutinizer	nah, can't be arsed to do that now	00:17
Venemo	I can give you a .deb, it should work	00:18
DocScrutinizer	sure, go ahead	00:18
Venemo	it doesn't need anything that's not in 1.2	00:18
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DocScrutinizer	paste the URL, so I can click it :-D	00:18
Venemo	moment	00:19
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* Skald is away: Gone away for now		00:20
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: http://cid-a5ea1bc43dff384c.office.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public?uc=1 (couldn't find a better place)	00:20
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DocScrutinizer	np	00:20
pupnik	well looks like the TSA is now in Canada	00:20
pupnik	< Sketch> i just went to the airport in canada a couple of weeks ago with one of those screwdriver bit set (in pieces) and they wouldn't let me keep it.	00:20
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: it hides the extension (idiotic MS crap), but the _1.0.0_armel one is the .deb	00:20
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: there's also a .tar.gz	00:21
DocScrutinizer	http://cid-a5ea1bc43dff384c.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/puzzle-master^_1.0.0^_armel.deb	00:21
DocScrutinizer	MEH	00:21
Venemo	yes, that's it	00:22
DocScrutinizer	DAMN!	00:22
DocScrutinizer	still I get "ERROR\nWindows Live SkyDrive"	00:22
Venemo	crap	00:22
Venemo	ok, wait a minute	00:23
DocScrutinizer	couldn't you name it a bit saner, maybe without ^	00:23
DocScrutinizer	might help	00:23
Venemo	it doesn't have ^	00:23
DocScrutinizer	actually, so where came that from in my c&p??	00:24
DocScrutinizer	:-o	00:24
* Skald is back.		00:24
Venemo	dunno, probably MS made it crap	00:24
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DocScrutinizer	http://cid-a5ea1bc43dff384c.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel.deb	00:24
DocScrutinizer	sigh, seems I need to use wget and dl it... :-S	00:25
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DocScrutinizer	no idea which mimetype it has	00:25
Venemo	trying to uplad it to FTP, but it seems that doesn't work right now :S	00:26
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DocScrutinizer	60k "text/html" ?	00:27
DocScrutinizer	I bet that's a crappy download-page link, not a proper URL pointing to the file	00:28
Venemo	you're right	00:28
Venemo	ah	00:28
Venemo	my web host changed its name servers and none of the domains there have been directed to the new ones	00:28
DocScrutinizer	http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pcs4__rc4QikVKtL9Vq-KjnN8CXTasiHYSXUKr1KpieLdDrxErcBM4IApLPH3V8Hs58xaucKe1bM-PHxTpJhD6g/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel.deb?download&psid=1	00:28
DocScrutinizer	GRRR	00:28
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Venemo	why don't you just click on the dl link in the browser and dl it?	00:29
DocScrutinizer	just because it's easier to click THAT^^^ link	00:29
DocScrutinizer	forget it	00:30
Venemo	heh	00:30
Venemo	did you succeed?	00:30
DocScrutinizer	installation not possible: missing: libqt4-foobar	00:30
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Venemo	what is foo and bar?	00:30
DocScrutinizer	also libqtm-sensors	00:30
DocScrutinizer	foo=core\|dbus\|gui\|maemo5\|xml	00:31
Venemo	you don't have any of libqt4?	00:31
DocScrutinizer	PR1.2	00:31
Venemo	nah	00:31
Venemo	you should have them	00:31
Venemo	just 4.6	00:31
DocScrutinizer	uhuh	00:31
Venemo	which is binary compatible with 4.7...	00:32
DocScrutinizer	yeah	00:32
DocScrutinizer	but you're rdepending on >=4.7.0-git735737834875147852346366046745	00:32
Venemo	okay	00:32
Venemo	I'll make you a version that depends on 4.6	00:32
Venemo	but it'll be less fun without libqtm-sensors	00:33
Venemo	why don't you upgrade to 1.3?	00:33
DocScrutinizer	because	00:33
DocScrutinizer	there's no way back	00:33
Venemo	and?	00:34
DocScrutinizer	and? if anything I need doesn't work anymore as expected under 1.3 then I'm screwed	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	otoh 1.3 has nothing I need right now	00:35
Venemo	mkay, no worries	00:35
Venemo	hm.	00:36
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Venemo	the DNS of my domain is directed to the new name servers, but still I get a "not found" when I try to access it from a browser	00:37
SpeedEvil	you have to wait for it to proagate	00:37
SpeedEvil	rop	00:37
iluminator101	venemo this is the file type Audio file with ID3 version 2.3.0, contains: RAR archive data, v14, os: Win32	00:37
Venemo	RAR archive data? interesting	00:37
Venemo	SpeedEvil: but I can ping it	00:38
Venemo	SpeedEvil: pinging it goes to the correct IP	00:38
SpeedEvil	Venemo: url?	00:38
Venemo	SpeedEvil: http://venemo.net	00:38
SpeedEvil	I get a IIS 404	00:39
Venemo	SpeedEvil: it gives a generic IIS 404, yes	00:39
DocScrutinizer	RAR isn't mp3 though, is it?	00:39
iluminator101	its an mp3 but more details says Audio file with ID3 version 2.3.0, contains: RAR archive data, v14, os: Win32	00:39
Venemo	SpeedEvil: meaning the hosting guy screwed something up	00:39
SpeedEvil	so there is a webserver at that address, which doesn't know it's supposed to be serving for that name	00:39
SpeedEvil	I think	00:39
Venemo	SpeedEvil: yeah, but I added the domain to the control panel, so it whould work...	00:39
DocScrutinizer	if it were a true mp3 (not sth somebody renamed to .mp3) then it would be playable	00:40
DocScrutinizer	iluminator101: there's a package codecs-extra or similar, in any of the repositories	00:41
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: btw what do you use on 1.2 that you're not sure if it works on 1.3?	00:42
DocScrutinizer	you could install and try to playback, it might know how to deal with that format	00:42
iluminator101	DocScrutinizer, I have that	00:42
DocScrutinizer	quite some bits. e.g. the fix for NK-enter vs proper <CR>, in xterm	00:43
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DocScrutinizer	iluminator101: it's some weird file format, not really a *.mp3	00:44
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: what does this mean?	00:44
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I mean, NK enter vs <CR> ?	00:44
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: this means with that lib installed I can hit the CR button on N900 to fire a less /search	00:45
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: by CR you mean the enter button, right?	00:45
DocScrutinizer	and several other cmdline programs that don't really work with this nonsensical NumericKeaypad-Eneter	00:45
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DocScrutinizer	yay, Numeric-Keypad-Enter	00:46
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: why not simply remap it in the X keymap?	00:46
DocScrutinizer	because that doesn't work	00:46
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: :(	00:46
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: for my usecase, remapping works fine. I can input all of the Hungarian accented characters with Fn key combos	00:47
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I'm building you a "DocScrutinizer Edition" of the app :P	00:47
DocScrutinizer	but generally speaking I don't bother to look into my crystal ball to tell which app or lib or bugfix will break on pr1.3	00:48
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Venemo	understandable	00:49
Venemo	hm	00:51
Venemo	what is the MIME type for .deb?	00:51
PhonicUK	application/x-deb	00:51
Venemo	ookay	00:52
Venemo	Doc, it works now	00:52
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PhonicUK	btw hi everyone :)	00:52
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel.deb	00:52
Venemo	PhonicUK: good evening :)	00:52
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PhonicUK	btw while I'm about, can anyone help me with a PR 1.3 problem?	00:53
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I removed the libqtm dependency, plus linked against libqt4 (>=4.6.0)	00:53
PhonicUK	the Wifi is misbehaving, for some reason it can't seem to get an IP address	00:53
PhonicUK	but everything else on the wireless is fine	00:53
Venemo	PhonicUK: isn't it a router-related problem?	00:53
PhonicUK	nope, the router is fine	00:53
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: try the link, tell me if it is still misbehaving	00:54
PhonicUK	it hands out an IP to anything else, and before I updated to 1.3 the phone was fine too	00:54
DocScrutinizer	still the same	00:54
PhonicUK	but after i reflashed, it refuses to behave	00:54
DocScrutinizer	>=4.7	00:54
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: naaah. no way	00:54
PhonicUK	Android on the same device can connect too	00:54
Venemo	moment	00:54
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Venemo	PhonicUK: is this error specific to a wireless, or your N900 fails to receive an IP on any wireless?	00:55
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PhonicUK	not sure, not got any other networks to try with	00:55
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: please set a marker in packet description, so I can tell it actually uses the downloaded version and not any cached one	00:55
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: a marker?	00:56
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: no, I screwed it up.	00:56
DocScrutinizer	a short notice, a remark, a typo, whatever	00:56
Venemo	okay	00:57
Venemo	balh	00:59
Venemo	this is shit	00:59
Venemo	I wrote to my control file libqt4-dev (>= 4.6.0)	00:59
DocScrutinizer	yeah, commonly known shit :-D	00:59
Venemo	and if I unpack the .deb, it is 4.7.0.......	00:59
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DocScrutinizer	9 out of 10 apps can't install with these incompatible dependencies now	01:00
Venemo	yes, but why does the build system cheat me?	01:00
DocScrutinizer	no idea	01:00
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DocScrutinizer	I seem to remember X-Fade tought me the buildhost tries to always find the lowest compatible version of a dependency. MAybe that's borked. Or the 4.6 version isn't compatible to your source	01:01
Venemo	it is.	01:02
PhonicUK	aha!	01:02
PhonicUK	it was my router being retarded	01:02
DocScrutinizer	also do you actually build on buildhost?	01:02
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DocScrutinizer	or locally?	01:02
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: nope, I build with madde on wincrap, but if it fails, I'll boot into Linux and try there	01:03
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* DocScrutinizer doubts the results will differ		01:03
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Venemo	scratchbox's dpkg-buildpackage is a bit smarter than madde's	01:03
DocScrutinizer	aah yes, quite possible	01:04
Venemo	isn't there an option in dpkg to skip the dependency check?	01:04
DocScrutinizer	no idea	01:04
DocScrutinizer	I installed via HAM anyway	01:04
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i have builder made on same scripts	01:04
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: and it's installing using apt and therefore latest version	01:04
jacekowski	Venemo: yes	01:04
jacekowski	Venemo: --force-all	01:05
lardman	bloody segfaults	01:05
lardman	grumble, grumble	01:05
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel_for_doc.deb try this with dpkg --force-depends or --force-all	01:07
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: that way we'll se if they're really binary compatible	01:09
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: btw you can install Qt 4.7 on PR 1.2	01:10
MohammadAG	they aren't	01:10
MohammadAG	PSFreedom fails to load on 1.2	01:11
Venemo	hmpfh.	01:11
Venemo	shouldn't you be sleeping?	01:11
MohammadAG	woke up	01:11
Venemo	:(	01:11
MohammadAG	thought it was 6, apparently it's 1	01:11
* MohammadAG grumbles		01:11
Venemo	I made a Puzzle Master version specifically for Doc	01:12
MohammadAG	4.7 binaries don't work on 4.6	01:12
Venemo	removed the qt mobility parts from it and specified >= 4.6.0 in the control file for qt	01:12
Venemo	apparently, my build system cheats and it puts >= 4.7 there regardless	01:12
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: if you add the SDK repo on your device, you'll be able to install qt 4.7 from there. don't install anything else from there though.	01:13
MohammadAG	cause the libraries are 4.7.1	01:13
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Venemo	MohammadAG: how can I select the 1.2 target in madde?	01:13
MohammadAG	you need to downgrade i tnink	01:14
MohammadAG	think*	01:14
Venemo	gah, the update removed the pr12 target! this is nonsense.	01:14
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: does it work with --force?	01:15
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MohammadAG	in reality, it expects you upgraded :P	01:16
MohammadAG	the deb deps don't matter	01:16
MohammadAG	it'll say something about failing to load a lib	01:16
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Venemo	will madde 0.6.72 build for pr1.2?	01:16
MohammadAG	probably not	01:16
Venemo	why not?	01:16
MohammadAG	do a	01:17
Venemo	it is a quite old version	01:17
* lardman feels immense relief at having fixed segfault, even though he doesn't quite understand how or why		01:17
MohammadAG	mad apt-get install libqt4-dev=4.6.2 or whatever the version was	01:17
Venemo	MohammadAG: there's no apt in madde.	01:17
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* MohammadAG sighs		01:18
GAN900	Why are there no FOSS retail solutions that don't suck. . . .	01:18
Venemo	it would be great if DocScrutinizer would actually tell us what the result was	01:18
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer sucks.	01:20
GAN900	Wait, what result?	01:20
Venemo	if he is able to install that package with --force-depends or not	01:21
DocScrutinizer	result: collapse on load game, no tab-expansion in shell on puz<tab> and Puz<tab>, so no further info	01:21
Venemo	thx	01:21
Aranel	MohammadAG: just wanted to say: your mediaplayer replacement looks awesome :) I hope to see it working.	01:21
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MohammadAG	LOL back to this	01:21
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: well then MohammadAG was right.	01:22
MohammadAG	Aranel, thanks :D	01:22
spiritd	Aranel which one?	01:22
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: it is located in /opt/puzzle-master/	01:22
MohammadAG	Venemo, i think he's complaining it's not in $PATH	01:22
spiritd	send me some screenshots :)	01:22
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: please read backscroll	01:22
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I read it, interesting	01:23
Aranel	spiritd: that one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66275&page=10	01:23
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: does the /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master binary exist?	01:23
DocScrutinizer	no idea	01:23
Venemo	could you please check it?	01:23
DocScrutinizer	do you need to know?	01:23
Aranel	spiritd: It's open-source and already supports portait mode it seems. Even dreaming about the possibilities makes me happy :)	01:24
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: ok, never mind	01:24
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DocScrutinizer	IroN900:~# ll /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master	01:24
DocScrutinizer	-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 615687 2010-12-18 00:03 /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master	01:24
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, what happens when you run that?	01:24
Ken-Young	Does anyone know of a way to export the list of Internet Radio Stations from the Maemo 5 media player as, for example, an ASCII file?	01:25
DocScrutinizer	the same?	01:25
DocScrutinizer	aaaah, you ask me to tell you what results my arsing around with invoking binaries from shell that aren't ever meant to get invoked that way will give? :-P	01:26
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Venemo	ok, never mind	01:27
DocScrutinizer	/opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master: symbol lookup error: /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master: undefined symbol: _ZN9QListData11detach_growEPii	01:27
Venemo	nice! :D	01:27
MohammadAG	yep	01:27
MohammadAG	that's the error i get/got	01:27
MohammadAG	(when running 4.7 bins with 4.6.2 libs)	01:28
Venemo	so it seems that binaries linked to 4.6 will run on 4.7, but it won't work in the opposite direction	01:28
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: I won't do that another time. Include a symlink from /usr/bin/puzzle to /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master	01:28
MohammadAG	it's x86/64 all over again	01:29
MohammadAG	no wait...	01:29
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: ok, don't worry. I'll make a binary for you that's linked against 4.6	01:29
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, do symlinks take some kbs?	01:29
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DocScrutinizer	nonsense	01:29
DocScrutinizer	they take exactly one block	01:29
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DocScrutinizer	if your linked path isn't like 700chars	01:30
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: so you're saying that I should make a symlink to /usr/bin?	01:31
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MohammadAG	luckily I had a shell script for hen :P	01:31
DocScrutinizer	yep	01:31
MohammadAG	otherwise you would've killed me	01:31
SpeedEvil	They don't take one block - they take one directory entry.	01:31
SpeedEvil	err	01:31
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: will 'ln -s /opt/puzzle-master/puzzle-master /usr/bin/' in the postinst do the trick?	01:32
* MohammadAG wonders if DocScrutinizer noticed that /usr/bin/hostmode is a shell script and not a symlink		01:32
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: one inode, no?	01:32
MohammadAG	yes Venemo	01:32
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I noticed that	01:32
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SpeedEvil	I realised as I wrote that that I don't actually know if they're stored in the directory inode	01:32
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I even watched when it got suggested to do it that way	01:33
jacekowski	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut1kGmOhzWQ	01:33
SpeedEvil	I thought they took up space in df -i - but not in df	01:33
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, aren't symlinks better?	01:33
DocScrutinizer	depends	01:33
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DocScrutinizer	don't ask me on what. Maybe on your mod on day of creation	01:34
DocScrutinizer	mood	01:34
MohammadAG	heh	01:35
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SpeedEvil	yeah - ln -s jfkjfd fdkjdkjf	01:35
DocScrutinizer	generally a script will add a useless process, unless you do something useful in script (then it's not useless), or you do exec (then there's no new process)	01:35
SpeedEvil	df -i goes down by one, df doesn't change	01:35
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alterego	Say I'm writing a contact web front end, if I use an evolution backend to store contact information, would it be easy at a later date to integrated MS Outlook/Exchange?	01:35
SpeedEvil	(ext3)	01:35
alterego	~integrate ..	01:35
DocScrutinizer	a shell script works on fs that don't know links (FAT?), but also is slower and eats more memory	01:36
DocScrutinizer	possibly lots more	01:36
DocScrutinizer	mem, not storage	01:37
SpeedEvil	It's quite light on busybox	01:37
DocScrutinizer	yeah	01:37
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SpeedEvil	But FAT doesn't do executables	01:37
SpeedEvil	typically on maemo	01:37
DocScrutinizer	it could	01:37
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: here you go: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel_for_doc_1.2.deb	01:37
Venemo	it also makes a symlink for you	01:38
DocScrutinizer	so deb it or HAM it?	01:38
DocScrutinizer	i.e. do I need --force-foo?	01:38
SpeedEvil	That connection stalls out	01:38
Venemo	whatever works. this is now linked against 4.6	01:38
SpeedEvil	oh	01:38
SpeedEvil	local net issues	01:38
Venemo	you shouldn't need force	01:38
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DocScrutinizer	so clicking the link should be fine :-)	01:39
Venemo	yes, it should	01:39
* MohammadAG stabs HAM		01:39
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: I don't have another N900 with 1.2 to test it on, but unpacking the deb now tells it needs 4.6.2, and it works on my 1.3 N900	01:40
DocScrutinizer	missing: libqtm-sensors	01:40
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Venemo	naaaa	01:40
Venemo	no way	01:40
MohammadAG	heh	01:40
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MohammadAG	shlibs:depends?	01:41
Venemo	hmpfh	01:41
SpeedEvil	dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of puzzle-master:	01:41
SpeedEvil	puzzle-master depends on libqtm-sensors; however:	01:41
SpeedEvil	Package libqtm-sensors is not installed.	01:41
Venemo	how the hell did that slip in there?	01:41
Venemo	okay	01:42
Venemo	I'll do one more try	01:42
DocScrutinizer	Venemo: yeah, it's getting more nice every time	01:42
DocScrutinizer	""#include mathlib //it could be useful eventually""	01:44
DocScrutinizer	:-P	01:44
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.0.0_armel_for_doc_round3.deb	01:45
Venemo	should be totally pr1.2-proof now	01:45
DocScrutinizer	actually, this comment was triggered by me thinking about loading libqtm-sensors on runtime, and check if that fails	01:45
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Venemo	well it doesn't acutally use that lib, just forgot to take out one more occurrence from the control file	01:46
Venemo	anyway, try the last link, that should be okay	01:46
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* DocScrutinizer51 curses apt-worker		01:47
Venemo	~nuke apt-worker	01:47
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at apt-worker ... B☢☢M!		01:47
DocScrutinizer51	HELL wonder if it ever finishes	01:47
DocScrutinizer51	YEAH, now try again	01:48
Venemo	umm?	01:48
MohammadAG	killall apt-worker fixes that for me	01:49
MohammadAG	then i replaced it with a shell script	01:49
DocScrutinizer51	NICE :-)	01:49
MohammadAG	echo "fuck off HAM" = no more CPU usage	01:49
Venemo	hmm... how interesting... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=892288#post892288	01:50
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* MohammadAG likes MeeGo again		01:51
MohammadAG	SGX makes it pleasant to use	01:52
MohammadAG	videos rotate in meego	01:52
Venemo	nice	01:52
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: does the stuff work now? :)	01:52
MohammadAG	though the samples were 240p :P	01:52
DocScrutinizer51	I ROCK!	01:52
Venemo	:)	01:53
MohammadAG	no, you scrutinize	01:53
Venemo	according to Puzzle Master, he rocks	01:53
Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: you can change the difficulty (puzzle size) in menu/settings if you get bored by the default one	01:54
DocScrutinizer51	Venemo: VERY nice	01:54
Venemo	thx DocScrutinizer51	01:54
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: oh, and I left the accelerometer option in the settings ui, but it won't do anything for you since I removed the relevant code to make it work on 1.2	01:55
DocScrutinizer51	Venemo: yes	01:55
DocScrutinizer51	4*4	01:55
Venemo	I play with 5×5 nowadays	01:56
Venemo	I guess the very difficult ones require the stylus	01:57
* MohammadAG still tries to use multitouch		01:57
Venemo	:D	01:57
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* Venemo was actually thinking about using the multitouch API for capable harware		01:58
Scor\|	hello	01:58
Venemo	hello Scor\|	01:58
* MohammadAG sends Venemo a Qt-less iPhone		01:58
Venemo	MohammadAG: nah. I'm talking about N8, C6, and E7	01:58
MohammadAG	i know :P	01:59
Scor\|	is this good place to ask question about usb networking between n900 and linux box ?	01:59
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Venemo	Scor\|: yes, it is	01:59
Venemo	Scor\|: what's your question?	01:59
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Scor\|	i kinda worked it out already, but have some minor deails to polish	01:59
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Scor\|	my linux box is a gentoo laptop, and on it i bridged eth0 and N900 together	02:00
Scor\|	and on N900 itself i used guide from wiki.maemo.org	02:00
Venemo	Scor\|: I recommend using the application called Mad Developer on the N900. launch it and select "usb networking" then "unix network"	02:00
Scor\|	oh, thanks, that should simplify some things	02:01
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Venemo	Scor\|: works with a single click, plus minimal setup on your desktop	02:01
* MohammadAG needs to sleep		02:01
MohammadAG	night	02:01
Venemo	MohammadAG: then go to sleep	02:02
Venemo	good night :)	02:02
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: should you ever want to try the accelerometer-enabled version, I think you may be able to update your libqt4 from the SDK repo	02:02
Scor\|	Venemo: it works already, i just wanted to ask if it's possible to start usb0 using simple command like ifup when it's set to dhcp in /etc/network/interfaces	02:02
lardman	night night all	02:02
DocScrutinizer51	Venemo: thanks. what will accel do?	02:02
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Venemo	Scor\|: oh, I dunno that, sorry	02:03
MohammadAG	Venemo, read me a story about open source vs closed source	02:03
Scor\|	sure, no problem	02:03
Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: the pieces will drift as you tilt the N900	02:03
Venemo	MohammadAG: :)	02:03
MohammadAG	in a way that doesn't annoy you, but adds life to the game :P	02:03
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Venemo	nah	02:04
Scor\|	Venemo: how can i install that "Mad Developer" app using apt ?	02:04
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Venemo	Scor\|: not sure which repo it's in	02:05
Scor\|	extras, i got it in app manager	02:05
Venemo	Scor\|: 'apt-get install mad-developer' should do it	02:05
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Scor\|	yup, it works :)	02:06
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Scor\|	there should be some shearch function...	02:06
Venemo	MohammadAG: btw, DocScrutinizer's version is special. it contains in the package description, "This version is specifically built for the one and only DocScrutinizer!"	02:06
MohammadAG	lol	02:07
DocScrutinizer51	heh!	02:07
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* Venemo wondered if DocScrutinizer51 would notice it :P		02:07
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DocScrutinizer51	I only checked the installs/problems tab :)	02:08
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Venemo	hehe :)	02:08
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Venemo	nah, I'll leave you alone guys, I gotta boot my Fedora and try http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66669	02:09
Venemo	will be back in a few minutes	02:09
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Venemo	brb	02:10
b-man`	saw that this morning :)	02:10
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b-man`	if only i still had my N800, i kinda miss the 4" screen :(	02:10
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Scorcerer	works like a charm, thanks Venemo	02:12
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Venemo_N900	Scorcerer: umm, what?	02:14
Scorcerer	oh, nvm :>	02:14
Venemo_N900	what works like a charm? :P	02:15
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Scorcerer	mad developer + usb networking + bridged ifaces on gentoo :)	02:16
Venemo	hey again folks	02:16
Venemo	Scorcerer: oh, that was you :)	02:16
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Venemo	Scorcerer: you're welcome	02:16
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: the solution was to download an old version of MADDE and use that to build the app for you	02:18
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DocScrutinizer51	eeeew, what a pain	02:19
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DocScrutinizer51	sorry	02:19
Venemo	no problem	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	anyway been worth it :D	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	really nice	02:20
DocScrutinizer51	faces are simple	02:20
Venemo	after the one with the newer version didn't work, it became a challenge for me. if I didn't solve it, I couldn't sleep :P	02:20
DocScrutinizer51	got 90s for 4*4	02:20
Venemo	:)	02:20
DocScrutinizer51	now I'll segfault it :-P	02:21
Venemo	how?	02:21
DocScrutinizer51	nah	02:21
DocScrutinizer51	yust an impossible puzzle from that mp4	02:21
Venemo	ehm.	02:22
Venemo	it just won't open it	02:22
DocScrutinizer51	it did	02:22
Venemo	an mp4?	02:22
Venemo	heh	02:22
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DocScrutinizer51	allegedly even prepared	02:22
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DocScrutinizer51	all black though	02:22
Venemo	yep.	02:22
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Venemo	QPixmap silently fails when it finds a format it can't handle	02:23
Venemo	I forgot to check it, so the game thinks that it is okay	02:24
Venemo	it will not segfault though :)	02:24
DocScrutinizer51	meh	02:24
DocScrutinizer51	one thing	02:24
Venemo	yes?	02:24
DocScrutinizer51	it should keep the "other..." pictures	02:25
Venemo	good idea	02:26
DocScrutinizer51	either that or directly open	02:26
Venemo	okay	02:26
Venemo	hm	02:26
DocScrutinizer51	anyway if it append to the local list, it should keep and have a way to delete from there	02:26
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Venemo	yeah, this is among the planned features	02:27
Venemo	the other one is a setting to change the background	02:27
DocScrutinizer51	errr	02:28
Venemo	that way you can play with darker pictures without issue by setting a white background	02:28
DocScrutinizer51	aaah	02:28
DocScrutinizer51	yes	02:28
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DocScrutinizer51	if you like to get fancy, you can build a histogram for the used colors	02:29
DocScrutinizer51	then auto tune background to complementary	02:29
DocScrutinizer51	or checkered	02:29
DocScrutinizer51	if no unused color	02:30
Venemo	was thinking about it, but I don't know of an easy way to do this	02:30
DocScrutinizer51	cmdline imgtools	02:31
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DocScrutinizer51	or steal from fcam	02:33
jacekowski	hmm, japan	02:33
DocScrutinizer51	hmm?	02:33
DocScrutinizer51	silvian?	02:34
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Macer	so objects within the universe can not travel faster than light but the universe can expand faster than the speed of light?	02:36
Venemo	yes Macer	02:36
Venemo	Macer: and the former is only true until the invention of FTL	02:36
Macer	so how are two objects moving away from one another each traveling at light speed not considered by each observer as traveling faster than light?	02:37
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Venemo	Macer: ask a philosopher	02:37
Macer	wouldn't they appear as traveling 2x the speed of light? :)	02:37
Venemo	maybe yes	02:37
Venemo	I haven't observed anything moving away from me FTL yet :P	02:38
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Macer	you probably have ;) you just dont know it	02:38
Macer	i was more so curious about the universe not having an outer edge	02:38
Macer	odd concept	02:39
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MohammadAG	damn sleepless nights	02:39
Macer	i think the best theory i heard was that our universe was actually the inside of an event horizon :)	02:39
Venemo	MohammadAG: just go sleep :P	02:39
nox-	Macer, you forgot time passes different near light speed...	02:39
MohammadAG	Venemo, i'm in bed	02:40
Macer	there is no such thing as time :)	02:40
Venemo	MohammadAG: I couldn't sleep either while chatting on IRC :P	02:40
* MohammadAG was offline		02:41
Venemo	hm, sorry	02:41
nox-	Macer, in that case, speed becomes meaningless too :)	02:41
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spiritd	installing maemo sdk	02:44
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spiritd	is there some packet generator tool for maemo like hping, nemesis, packeth	02:45
spiritd	?	02:45
DocScrutinizer	Macer: (FTL) you gave the answer: you just dont know it. I.E. that's the base of relativity theory. You are not observing anything absolute, ever. The info about location needs time to reach you, and your time isn't the time of the object moving	02:48
spiritd	where did you learne that? :D	02:48
DocScrutinizer	you learn such things at school, no?	02:49
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Termana	good morning	02:55
MohammadAG	aftermidnight Termana	02:56
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: what to do if an N810 doesn't want to boot into flashing mode?	03:04
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luke-jr	Venemo: there is no flashing mode	03:09
luke-jr	just power it off completely, remove power for a minute, then start flasher before plugging it into PC	03:10
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Venemo	luke-jr: what about the instruction which says long-press the button with the two overlapping rectangles?	03:10
Venemo	luke-jr: does ~flashing lie?	03:11
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alterego	That's for the N8x0s	03:11
alterego	We don't have that button on the N900	03:12
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Venemo	I'm talking about the N810	03:12
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Venemo	alterego: yeah.	03:12
alterego	Oh, well, I'm not sure it's necessary :P	03:12
Venemo	excerpt from ~flashing: N810 WiMAX, N810, N800 and 770: Connect your device to your computer via USB. While holding the Home/Swap button (It's a house on the 770 and N800, and two overlapping rectangles on the N810), power on the device by holding the power button. You should see a Nokia logo in the middle of the screen, and a USB icon in the top right corner.	03:12
alterego	Might have been in earlier f/w version irc	03:12
luke-jr	Venemo: sure	03:13
alterego	Anyhow, g'night folks.	03:13
Venemo	luke-jr: anyway, flasher still says Suitable USB device not found, waiting.	03:14
Venemo	luke-jr: after trying what you said	03:14
luke-jr	Venemo: usually for me that means your host system USB stack is broken	03:14
luke-jr	for mod in {e,u}hci_hcd; do rmmod $mod; sleep 1; modprobe $mod; done	03:14
Venemo	luke-jr: well I was able to flash the N810 about a month ago from the same system	03:15
luke-jr	beware, all USB will shutdown for that	03:15
Venemo	luke-jr: hm. my system runs from an USB HDD, would it be wise to do that? :P	03:15
luke-jr	no	03:15
luke-jr	rather unwise	03:15
luke-jr	to run from USB	03:15
luke-jr	at all	03:15
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luke-jr	unless it's USB3	03:15
luke-jr	which might be sane	03:15
luke-jr	but nfc how it works ☺	03:16
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Venemo	no, not usb 3	03:16
Venemo	hm	03:16
luke-jr	you could reboot I suppose	03:16
luke-jr	the cause of the broken state is, by guessing, NOLO failing to de-initialize the port before handing it over to Linux	03:17
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Venemo	I could try rebooting the pc, yes	03:20
Venemo	but the N810 is in a bricked state now	03:20
Venemo	luke-jr: I was trying this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66669	03:22
luke-jr	then you're screwed	03:22
luke-jr	N810 doesn't charge until it boots	03:22
Venemo	it is fully charged	03:22
luke-jr	not if you keep failing	03:22
Venemo	well since I don't power it up, it won't consume power	03:23
Venemo	nah, I'll reboot the pc and see what happens then	03:23
Venemo	brb	03:23
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spiritd	can I copy to Xephy window?	03:26
spiritd	i mean ctrl+v to forms	03:26
spiritd	btw i have ubuntu 10.04 in vmware... and backspace doesnt work :/	03:26
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Venemo	luke-jr: still no luck	03:30
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Venemo	luke-jr: do you have any ideas?	03:31
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spiritd	i ll use official virtual image	03:33
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spiritd	how can i download this https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hping2/ using app manager?	03:41
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Venemo	luke-jr: btw, the N810 can charge itself in its current state	03:50
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spiritd	MohammadAG ... where can I find strace for N900?	03:54
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MohammadAG	sdk repos	03:54
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MohammadAG	http://maemo.org/packages/view/strace	03:54
spiritd	how can i add these repos to N900?	03:55
spiritd	hmm it is in extras-devel ... cant see that...	03:56
spiritd	something wrong in n900	03:56
spiritd	MohammadAG btw how can i download this https://garage.maemo.org/projects/hping2/ using app manager?	03:57
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Venemo	nah, all solved	04:04
Venemo	thx for the help :)	04:04
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spiritd	ohhh... i understand	04:11
spiritd	its for older releases... "diablo"	04:12
spiritd	MohammadAG ... i ment ... i d like to download it for n900 phone not for sdk	04:12
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spiritd	these is fck good... sshd to my phone... love this phone	04:25
Venemo	spiritd: I'm happy :)	04:26
DangerMaus	heh	04:26
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spiritd	ok installed strace //guide http://dabase.com/blog/n900_developer_tips/	04:37
Venemo	nah guys, I'm extremely weary, so I'll say goodbye and leave now	04:39
spiritd	kk bb	04:39
spiritd	gn	04:39
spiritd	:)	04:39
spiritd	even sft works... oh guys... this is totally awsome	04:40
spiritd	sftp	04:40
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DocScrutinizer	hello #maemo	09:13
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luke-jr	O HAI THAR MR DOC SCRUTINIZER OPENMOKO ENGINEER SIR	09:22
DocScrutinizer	HI MR LUKE-JR	09:23
toggles	i'm buying you two the new google laptops	09:23
derf	I'm taking away your Caps Lock keys.	09:24
toggles	they don't have caps lock buttons	09:24
luke-jr	derf: I already threw mine out	09:24
luke-jr	toggles: sweet, can I run Gentoo on it?	09:24
luke-jr	derf: seriously, my keymap uses the Caps key for Dvorak	09:25
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derf	I use mine for Compose.	09:25
luke-jr	but HOLDING SHIFT DOWN AINT HARD	09:25
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derf	IT'S STILL FUCKING ANNOYING, THOUGH.	09:26
luke-jr	derf: but gets me a free laptop?	09:26
derf	You win this round.	09:26
luke-jr	XD	09:26
DocScrutinizer	toggles: you got my shipping addr?	09:28
DocScrutinizer	12648430	09:31
DocScrutinizer	err	09:31
DocScrutinizer	0xC0FFEE	09:32
spiritd	gn	09:32
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RobbieThe1st	To be fair, those laptops have the same key, it's just a multi-function instead of just caps-lock	09:32
RobbieThe1st	Also, in most cases, I'm thinking that the n900's solution would be better anyway - tap or hold shift for shift, tap twice for caps-lock	09:33
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Termana	LOL - my mother got an app on her iPhone called "Ghost Trapper". It sits there with a radar and goes "beep" and shows some lines and dots and stuff on the radar. At the end it does one of those "scary" ghosting coming at you things.	10:29
Termana	She shit her pants! She thought she caught the ghost! :p	10:29
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DocScrutinizer	sigh	10:34
DocScrutinizer	thought fart app would be ultimately the worst it gets	10:34
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RST38h	Termana: Your mother shat her pants? Are you sure we would like to hear about that?	10:39
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Termana	RST38h, well i mean she didn't really shit her pants. She jumped up high, screamed and almost threw the phone	10:42
* DocScrutinizer considers an app to whisper random scary shit at random times at night, when ambient light and noise is low, and no movement		10:43
Choom	that could be interesting	10:44
DocScrutinizer	obviously has to run daemonized or via cronjob	10:44
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Choom	make it so that the noises stop if a light goes on or the phone is moved	10:45
DocScrutinizer	didn't I say exactly that?	10:46
Choom	no	10:46
DocScrutinizer	umm, I meant to	10:46
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DocScrutinizer	for additional schizogenic effect take random samples during day, and process them slightly with e.g. sox, to add reverb and tune pitch or stretch speed. Then use these samples for the scary noises	10:50
Termana	DocScrutinizer has been watching too much NCIS. Except when they did it there, it was activated by a phone call.	10:50
Termana	DocScrutinizer, also you did say exactly that, just in a different way :p	10:50
DocScrutinizer	oh, I rarely watch NCIS and missed that episode	10:50
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Choom	also make sure you use the proximity sensor to check whether the phone is inside a pocket, a bag, or turned upside down before validatin the light sensor's input	10:52
DocScrutinizer	good point	10:52
DocScrutinizer	I think I can integrate all that into h-e-n kernel til mid of March the latest. Then sell exorcist app on ovi, 1. of April	10:54
DocScrutinizer	umm, the poltergeist needs a function to patch healthcheck as well :-D	10:56
DocScrutinizer	"your N900 has been detected to be infected by trinary fleas"	10:57
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DocScrutinizer	"please don't use your phone tomorrow 18:57 til 22:73! The fleas have scheduled a meeting at dark side of second life"	10:59
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DocScrutinizer	btw anybody recalls this hype called "second life" anymore? Got rather quiet about all that :-P	11:01
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Termana	second life as in the game?	11:02
DocScrutinizer	oh that's been supposed to be a game?	11:03
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DocScrutinizer	I thought it was a virtual shop app for Nike and IBM	11:03
Termana	Errmm... I think so. I didn't really use it	11:03
Termana	Didn't interest me, overcomplicated chat with building functions	11:03
Termana	3D building*	11:03
DocScrutinizer	and the first life for pederasts	11:04
Termana	lol	11:05
Termana	I didn't even know what that meant until I looked it up	11:06
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lardman	morning	11:11
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Termana	morning lardman	11:12
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lardman	hi Termana	11:17
DocScrutinizer	https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PROMO-terra-Love-Rug/1561100?ple=h priceless	11:18
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if there's secondlife in secondlife :-P		11:19
DocScrutinizer	"Laptop with secondlife^2 preinstalled. NOMOD/NOCOPY/MOVE L$15000"	11:20
DocScrutinizer	10^9 prims	11:21
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DocScrutinizer	dualcore: 10^12 prims	11:22
lardman	what's a prim?	11:22
DocScrutinizer	I guess a primitive, some buildblock macro	11:22
DocScrutinizer	honestly no idea really. First time in my first life I look at 2ndlife	11:23
lardman	ah I was wondering if it was currency	11:23
DocScrutinizer	nah the currency is Lindon$ iirc	11:24
DocScrutinizer	freely convertable to USD	11:24
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lardman	hmm, it's stopped snowing :(	11:31
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RST38h	is it a good thing or a bad thing?	11:32
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lardman	bad, it's the weekend	11:33
RST38h	ah	11:33
RST38h	Meanwhile: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1339271/Mel-Gibson-called-oven-dodger-claims-Winona-Ryder.html	11:34
doc\|home	wtf does that even mean (there's no way I'm clicking a daily shite url)	11:35
lardman	lol	11:35
lardman	to do with the gas chambers I just found out	11:35
RST38h	doc: Winona Ryder acting as Cpt Obvious for today	11:35
doc\|home	erm	11:35
* doc\|home lost - but doesn't really care		11:35
lardman	anti-semetic	11:35
doc\|home	ok	11:36
lardman	or semitic	11:36
doc\|home	that's an awful url	11:36
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doc\|home	it should be legal to punch tabloid journalists	11:37
RST38h	You would really need it to be legal to do it? Hm.	11:37
doc\|home	I'm not going to jail for one of those useless... people...	11:38
* doc\|home sighs		11:38
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: get a proper irc client - WITH TAB NICK-COMPLETION!	11:39
lardman	DocScrutinizer: mine has troubles with your nicks sometimes	11:39
RST38h	Doc: No.	11:39
doc\|home	so, I'm buying a christmas present for someone back home (Ireland). I'm using an Irish credit card, from an Irish bank, with the billing/delivery address matching the card address. Transaction denied. Why? Because the IP address I'm doing the transaction from is in canada.	11:39
lardman	if it doesn't know whether I'm going to keep typing, doesn't change case for me	11:40
RST38h	doc: I bet you never tried buying anything from an .RU IP address...	11:40
DocScrutinizer	GRRRRR	11:40
doc\|home	RST38h: .ca doesn't exactly have the same rep as .ru :)	11:40
doc\|home	I asked if there was any way around it and the guy said "not without a proxy" :D	11:41
doc\|home	so, he didn't suggest it as such ...	11:41
* doc\|home places order using proxy		11:41
RST38h	doc: meaning, they just deny your transactions, and do not start calling your US phone number to warn you of "illegal activity using your credit card"?	11:41
DocScrutinizer	STOP HIGHLIGHTING ME	11:41
doc\|home	DocScrutinizer: pffft, he's not even saying your name :)	11:41
RST38h	Doc: You should downgrade to IRCII, it does not highlight.	11:41
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doc\|home	DocScrutinizer: do you have "doc" in your highlight list?	11:42
doc\|home	RST38h: no, just it's rejected	11:42
RST38h	doc: Proxy. Problem solved.	11:42
DocScrutinizer	doc\|home: yes, "doc:" as somebody else used to use that - also a TAB ignorant	11:42
doc\|home	RST38h: still a hassle and stressful when you're trying to place it in the minutes before work close to christmas :/	11:42
doc\|home	DocScrutinizer: then it's the other guy's fault :)	11:43
doc\|home	RST38h: have the order done now, hope it gets there in time is all	11:43
RST38h	doc: They will not deliver it.	11:43
doc\|home	RST38h: they better!	11:43
RST38h	doc: Never do	11:43
doc\|home	RST38h: what?	11:43
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doc\|home	hahaha	11:44
RST38h	doc: Too late, parcel services are in a mess, you should be happy if they do not lose it at all	11:44
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doc\|home	:D	11:44
doc\|home	RST38h: we'll see :/	11:44
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doc\|home	sleep time, night	11:45
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Termana	DocScrutinizer: I thought you didn't own an n810? :p	12:13
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mikki-kun	blist	13:08
mikki-kun	arghs, sorry, wrong channel ^^'	13:08
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zchydem	hi are there any known issues related on performance and pr 1.3? I have almost N900 with pr1.3 and I installed there only MadDeveloper and ssh, it's really slow in general	13:50
zchydem	"almost clean"	13:50
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pupnik	i've seen a lot of vague complaints	13:52
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alterego	I need two more votes: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xbox360-media-remote/1.0-1maemo2/	13:58
alterego	Someone freakin' do it :)	13:58
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* MohammadAG can't feel his damn body		14:21
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SpeedEvil	Why not?	14:21
MohammadAG	didn't sleep last night, didn't you notice? :P	14:22
SpeedEvil	no.	14:22
MohammadAG	well, couldn't	14:22
MohammadAG	so i've been awake for 24h+	14:22
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SpeedEvil	Fun.	14:22
SpeedEvil	I would suggest finding somewhere nice and flat, and doing handbrake turns there.	14:23
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DocScrutinizer	moin SpeedEvil	14:23
SpeedEvil	Morning.	14:23
MohammadAG	heh	14:24
SpeedEvil	I'm going to sleep again.	14:24
SpeedEvil	It's way too cold to be up.	14:24
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Venemo	hey guys	14:25
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you know anything about lis302 on OM hw?	14:26
SpeedEvil	no.	14:26
DocScrutinizer	k	14:26
SpeedEvil	My OM hw doesn't have one.	14:26
DocScrutinizer	aah	14:26
DocScrutinizer	:-)	14:26
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DocScrutinizer	funny detail I made them consider to have the Nokia driver or a similar IRQ driven concept, after only 2.5y of arguing about it	14:28
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DocScrutinizer	while meego adopts the OM joystick polling approach :-P	14:28
DocScrutinizer	well, however crappy, it's UPSTREAM (uhuhuhuhh)	14:30
alterego	Note to self: CSS != QML	14:30
alterego	No matter how similar it looks.	14:30
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Venemo	alterego: QML is JS, not CSS	14:35
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alterego	Venemo: it feels more like CSS tbh	14:50
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Venemo	alterego: it is JSON if I recall correctly	14:50
alterego	At least the UI	14:51
alterego	Yeah	14:51
Venemo	X-Fade: ping	14:51
alterego	But not JSON	14:51
alterego	It's its' own language really, kind of like JSON, but feels a little more like CSS.	14:51
alterego	But not either	14:51
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Venemo	X-Fade: I have uploaded a package called "puzzle-master" to the autobuilder yesterday evening. I received an OK email about it, but it doesn't appear in the list of the latest builds, not in the repo. could you help me?	14:52
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Venemo	DocScrutinizer: you still rock? :)	14:53
DocScrutinizer	sure	14:55
Venemo	:)	14:55
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Jaffa	Morning, all	15:49
Venemo	morning Jaffa	15:49
alterego	Just need one more vote now ..	15:51
pupnik	preferably from an actual user ;)	15:55
Venemo	:D	15:55
Venemo	in the ideal world of sw developers, there are no actual users	15:56
alterego	yes	15:57
jaska	itd be much better that way	15:58
alterego	My maemo projects I write, basically, for myself.	15:58
alterego	Can't say I've wrote an app for users.	15:58
alterego	I just write things I want, then make them look nice and work nice for users.	15:58
BCMM	one more vote for what?	15:58
alterego	Well, users except DocScrutinizer	15:58
Venemo	hehe, why?	15:59
alterego	Because no one can ever reach his unobtainable standards :)	15:59
Venemo	hah! I was able to! :P	15:59
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Venemo	X-Fade: nevermind, resubmitting the package did the trick	16:10
Venemo	alterego: wanna give it a spin?	16:10
Venemo	alterego: it's in the repo now	16:10
alterego	Cool	16:11
alterego	Yeah, I'll do it in a few minutes.	16:11
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* Skald is back.		16:16
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thresh	hi. is it a known bug that installing overclocked kernel results in v4l not working?	16:22
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andre__	query the bugtracker for overclocked kernels? :-P	16:25
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Venemo	alterego: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=899403#post899403	16:39
Jaffa	Python-folks: anyone know the import for KeyError; and how to generally find such things?	16:41
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Jaffa	My bad. Spelt it wrong.	16:41
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km82rt	Hi!	16:44
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km82rt	I am somewhat frustrated. After kill the fs on the N900 (sudden power loss when dropping it on a hard surface)	16:44
km82rt	I tried to reflash it.	16:44
km82rt	Flashing the fiasco image is no problem	16:44
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km82rt	but I cannot flash the EMMC	16:45
Venemo	km82rt: yeah, I screwed an N900 that way once. I was able to flash both fiasco and emmc, but it just didn't work	16:45
km82rt	There are numerious people in forums with similar problems.	16:45
km82rt	Venemo: What did you finally do?	16:45
Venemo	km82rt: brought it to a repair center, and "forgot" to tell them that I dropped it	16:46
Venemo	km82rt: after a week, they replaced it with a new one, 'cause they couldn't fix it	16:46
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louigiverona	guysoft42, tried updating maemo from N900, it says i need to connect to nokia software.	16:47
km82rt	Venemo: to me this looks like a design error. (hard drop causes power failure --> causes fs corruption --> cannot be fixed....)	16:47
louigiverona	i am on linux there is no nokia software for it	16:47
louigiverona	what should I do?	16:47
nid0	remove the incompatible packages you've installed preventing the ota upgrade from working	16:48
nid0	or free up rootfs space if you've used a load of it	16:48
louigiverona	nid0, how do i know what packages are incompatible?	16:49
nid0	its in the package details for the upgrade	16:49
km82rt	does anyone know which 4 digits on the label are the hwid?	16:49
louigiverona	nid0, thx, i'll try	16:50
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ke^	http://fuuko.libferris.com/maemo/n900/repository/ this is repo for n900 right ?	16:52
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ke^	Cant get my application manager detect the example clawmotia pkg which i why i have add this repo	16:53
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Venemo	I should go now; bye guys	16:54
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km82rt	hi tackat	17:19
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MortimeRR	tackat: how is it in Nuremberg? A lot of snow?	17:20
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alterego	About an inch of snow in 20 mins	17:33
alterego	:)	17:33
alterego	purdy	17:33
lardman	that's impressive	17:35
lardman	no more here really, just 2-3" worth this morning	17:35
alterego	yeah, still snowing a bit, really hope my bus comes to take me into Cambridge tonight.	17:37
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lardman	looks like it might snow again here though, dark skies now	17:39
GAN900	Ha . . . snow.	17:39
GAN900	Was pouring rain this morning.	17:39
Jartza	could't tell, it's been dark for 2 hours already :)	17:39
alterego	heh	17:39
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Jartza	we have less than 6 hours of daylight now in finland :(	17:40
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alterego	aww, that must be pretty depressing :D	17:41
Jartza	yep	17:41
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Jartza	dark when you go to work	17:41
Jartza	dark when you leave home	17:42
GAN900	Screw that.	17:42
Jartza	and about half a meter of snow	17:42
Jartza	and -15C :)	17:42
Jartza	wtf. welcome to finland. \o/	17:42
SpeedEvil	It's gotten down to -15C	17:44
SpeedEvil	here	17:44
SpeedEvil	thought hat was a few days ago at night.	17:44
SpeedEvil	Fife, Scotland	17:44
GAN900	Still getting a solid 10 hours a day here.	17:44
GAN900	Thank goodness.	17:44
Jartza	yeah. I heard that central europe is struggling with snow :)	17:45
Jartza	we're just living with it. struggling doesn't help.	17:45
RST38h	More riots!	17:47
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alterego	I just need one more vote: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xbox360-media-remote/1.0-1maemo2/	17:56
alterego	Some one please :)	17:56
* alterego goes to have a shower.		17:56
backwards_	is it possible to change the sensitivity of the proximity sensor in the N900?	18:00
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SpeedEvil	I believe not - it's a binary output sensor	18:01
backwards_	is it possible that a program which I installed changed the sensitivity?	18:02
backwards_	Because it needs an extreme bright light to "open" the sensor	18:03
SpeedEvil	It's possible something is making it ignore it, yes	18:03
SpeedEvil	hmm	18:03
SpeedEvil	afk - sorry - good luck	18:03
backwards_	thnx	18:04
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Tokz	could someone show me how to use shared folder with wizard mounter and windows 7	18:15
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tackat	MortimeRR: well, some snow. The finnish guys might disagree if I say "a lot" ;-)	18:32
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backwards_	is it possible that a program which I installed changed the sensitivity of the proximity sensor?	18:48
alterego	no	18:48
alterego	Except a new kernel, possibly.	18:48
alterego	Unless the proximity sensor is a gpio switch, in which case, definitely not.	18:49
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backwards_	but the kernel can't be changed by installed software?	18:53
backwards_	I'm not understanding my proximity sensor.. I guess it could be broken, but it's wierd it does react on strong light I think	18:53
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GAN900	Proximity sensor or ambient light sensor?	18:57
backwards_	my screen doesn't switch on when I'm called because my phone thinks it's too dark. That's the proximity sensor right?	18:57
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luke-jr	alterego: proximity sensor is gpio iirc	18:59
luke-jr	backwards_: no	18:59
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luke-jr	backwards_: proximity sensor detects distance to closest object	18:59
luke-jr	light sensor detects brightness	18:59
backwards_	how come the proximity sensor opens when I hold my phone against a halogen lamp, and closes in all other cases?	19:01
timeless_mbp	wow	19:01
timeless_mbp	one of the low numbered Finnish TV channels just showed a test pattern	19:01
timeless_mbp	then it showed black	19:01
timeless_mbp	now it's showing the same test pattern (but silently, thankfully!)	19:01
timeless_mbp	white-yellow-cyan-green-<>	19:01
timeless_mbp	(that's 3 flashes of it)	19:01
alterego	Heh	19:02
* timeless_mbp didn't record the other bits		19:02
timeless_mbp	ah, but now i'm rewarded by a pink panther short :)	19:02
timeless_mbp	this is channel 4 (nelonen?)	19:02
alterego	Heh	19:03
alterego	I still need one more freakin' vote dagnamit!	19:04
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backwards_	couldn't get on your link	19:04
backwards_	is there a way to test the light sensor?	19:05
timeless_mbp	alterego: url?	19:06
ShadowJK	backwards_, strong light will trigger the proximity sensor in some cases	19:06
ShadowJK	like if you have sunlight shining on the remote control receiver of your TV, it stops seeing your remote control	19:07
backwards_	but can I check if the light sensor works? I installed HealthCheck which checks the proximity sensor, but not the light sensor	19:07
ShadowJK	Your assumption that "phone thinks it's too dark" is wrong	19:08
ShadowJK	If it thinks it's dark, it reduces the power of the backlight. If it's in reality very bright, you'd still see the screen contents if that was the case, because the screen is transreflective	19:09
ShadowJK	Do you have a screen protector covering the front camera, light sensor and proximity sensor?	19:09
backwards_	no I don't	19:09
alterego	timeless_mbp: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xbox360-media-remote/1.0-1maemo2/	19:10
backwards_	I had my phone repared last week, they replaced the screen because the old screen was broken	19:10
timeless_mbp	alterego: um, send me an xbox360 and i'll vote for your app :)	19:10
backwards_	something could have gone wrong there I guess	19:11
DocScrutinizer	cat the sysfs nodes	19:12
alterego	pfft, it works :P	19:13
alterego	9/10 thumbs up is a pretty good indication of that :P	19:14
GAN900	alterego, when I get home.	19:14
DocScrutinizer	backwards_: cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state	19:15
alterego	Thanks :)	19:15
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alterego	Still snowing here	19:15
alterego	Probably another 1/2 inch	19:15
alterego	Though, I don't know how you measure these things.	19:15
DocScrutinizer	backwards_: cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0029/lux	19:16
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DocScrutinizer	backwards_: ???!	19:17
backwards_	doc, I did the proximity state and it always says closed unless I use the bright light	19:17
DocScrutinizer	that's weird	19:17
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jacekowski	backwards_: then it's broken	19:17
alterego	hrm, more like 3 or 4 inchs	19:17
DocScrutinizer	bright light would rather make it "open"	19:17
jacekowski	backwards_: proximity sensor has it's own light source	19:17
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: that's what he said	19:18
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: it's closed unless he uses bright light	19:18
DocScrutinizer	err, it not what I meant though. Thanks	19:18
DocScrutinizer	prox sensor seing light means there's an object near that reflects sensor's own IR	19:18
DocScrutinizer	so light=object=closed	19:19
DocScrutinizer	no light=no reflexion=open	19:19
backwards_	so it should be closed when there is something near	19:19
DocScrutinizer	yes	19:19
backwards_	uhw	19:19
backwards_	the second thing you told me gives me "6" don't know what that means?	19:20
DocScrutinizer	6 lux, normal for room with 60W bulb	19:20
DocScrutinizer	hold it to the light, you get like 60	19:20
DocScrutinizer	or 100	19:20
DocScrutinizer	in sun 1000	19:20
backwards_	yep	19:20
backwards_	bright light gives 2689	19:21
backwards_	conclusion is that prox sensor is broken and it's a hardware problem right?	19:21
DocScrutinizer	or 11714, next to a 60W	19:21
DocScrutinizer	well, usually that sensor is always on afaik, and for me it shows 'closed' when I cover left half of device by hand, and 'open' when there's nothing	19:23
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DocScrutinizer	a brigh light of ~8000Lux doesn't cause a 'closed', approaching the bulb about 3cm distance gives closed, but that also seems normal sensor operation	19:25
bakarat	what exactly is the reason for contacting nokia servers if you want to register an email account...?	19:25
DocScrutinizer	checking connectivity afaik	19:26
alterego	bbl	19:26
DocScrutinizer	backwards_: short answer: yes	19:26
DocScrutinizer	backwards_: nevertheless reflash! You never know	19:26
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DocScrutinizer	if error persists on freshly flashed clean rootfs&kernel (COMBINED fiasco img) then it's for sure a hw problem	19:27
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backwards_	oke!	19:29
backwards_	so is that flashing the eMMC too?	19:30
DocScrutinizer	nope	19:30
bakarat	DocScrutinizer, checking connectivity of the pop3 server...?	19:30
DocScrutinizer	do NOT flash the VANILLA file, that's useless	19:30
bakarat	why exactly is that done by nokia?	19:30
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DocScrutinizer	bakarat: aiui the mailer (modest) checks if it can ping an arbitrary addr in internet which happens to be Nokia.	19:31
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bakarat	DocScrutinizer, ah ok, that would make sense	19:31
DocScrutinizer	but maybe it does more, e.g. asking for presets for that mail provider	19:31
bakarat	just making sure cause i read at some point nokia offered a push service where mail was being routed through nokia servers	19:32
bakarat	(not sure when that was nor what model it referred to)	19:32
DocScrutinizer	Nokia could have a database with mail and pop server names and settings for commonly known service providers	19:32
DocScrutinizer	that push is probably nokia-mail	19:33
DocScrutinizer	it's basically a poor idea, as there's no push mail through a NAT, and GPRS frequently is behind a NAT	19:34
ShadowJK	bakarat, if you're using that nokia messaging thing it goes via nokia, and potentially your operator wants money for it	19:34
bakarat	DocScrutinizer, ShadowJK just the default email app on the nokia n900	19:34
bakarat	not sure which one it is	19:34
DocScrutinizer	so your phone has to send NAT keep alive packets all the time to enable push, which is way worse than polling pop3 ince every 15min	19:35
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: uh, bs?	19:35
luke-jr	IMAP IDLE is push, and works fine behind NAT	19:35
DocScrutinizer	or they actually send an SMS to inform you about new mail	19:35
ShadowJK	as long as the NAT doesn't have extremely short expiration of connection tracking	19:35
* ShadowJK has no nat on interwebs		19:35
* luke-jr is finding DD-Wrt's IPv6 support to be broken :/		19:36
DocScrutinizer	typical session timeout on a NAT is 1..10min	19:36
bakarat	but long story short, the default email app on the nokia n900 is a generic email app right? not the nokia mail thingy?	19:36
luke-jr	QoS too	19:36
ShadowJK	My router has 2 week timeout on nat. Probably why bittorrent is known to make it run out of ram :)	19:37
DocScrutinizer	bakarat: for everything except maybe nokiamail it is	19:37
bakarat	k thanks :)	19:37
ShadowJK	bakarat, so when I pick "New account" in email, it connects to nokia to "check for service availability". Presumably this has something to do with that thing where operators decide whether you can get nokia messaging or not. Then you get the thing where you get to select Service provider. If you pick Nokia Messaging at this point, I imagine it goes via nokia servers	19:38
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bakarat	ShadowJK, ah ok, i'll just stay clear of that then :P	19:39
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bakarat	if i set up an exchange account (for my work), is it easy to keep the calendar, contacts and whatever else is synced separate from private calendar, contacts etc?	19:41
backwards_	thanks for the help doc! :)	19:41
bakarat	(sorry i'm bombarding you guys with questions :P)	19:41
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DocScrutinizer	this "checking for service availability" could also be STUN, or maybe even UPnP to try pinhole the provider NAT.	19:44
DocScrutinizer	Some SMS and security guru around? How does N900 react on those "silent SMS", can you still detect them?	19:47
DocScrutinizer	Is there a convenient way I (an underprivileged mortal user) may send such a silent SMS to test that?	19:48
luke-jr	what silent SMS?	19:50
DocScrutinizer	hmm, thanks, nvm. hushSMS is the answer	19:52
DocScrutinizer	http://www.silentservices.de/HushSMS.html	19:53
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: doing anything Tuesday?	19:59
DocScrutinizer	why?	19:59
luke-jr	new year!	19:59
luke-jr	http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/calendar/month201101.html	19:59
DocScrutinizer	haha	19:59
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DocScrutinizer	well, I guess I'll celebrate a much more archaic and ancient habit: winter solstice	20:01
DocScrutinizer	nice side effect: after that I'm done at least with xmas	20:01
luke-jr	http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/keyboard/dvorak-tonal.png :P	20:02
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joppu	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/miku-theme/0.9/	20:02
luke-jr	still getting used to using shift for odd numbers	20:03
Shapeshifter	to hell with busybox!!	20:03
Shapeshifter	._.	20:03
Shapeshifter	that is all.	20:03
joppu	anyone care to test and vote?	20:04
joppu	because one vote till extras	20:04
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Venemo_N900	hi guys	20:13
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Venemo_N900	what's up?	20:16
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_nicolai_	Hi	20:43
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Venemo_N900	hey _nicolai_	20:44
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_nicolai_	is someone working on MohammadAG s qtmediaplayer?	20:49
Venemo_N900	he just sent me bunch of code that you sent him	20:49
Venemo_N900	I'll look into it tomorrow	20:50
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_nicolai_	ah, ok.	20:54
Venemo_N900	or at least when I have some time	20:56
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internetishard	how much should ram usage be after a fresh restart?	21:15
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Venemo_N900	internetishard: afaik Linux uses 100% ram. unused ram is wasted ram.	21:17
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer: correct me if I'm wrong	21:17
internetishard	okay	21:17
internetishard	I'm talking about, for example, what shoes in conky	21:17
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Venemo_N900	I dunno that, I don't have conky	21:19
DocScrutinizer-8	as a rule of thumb, I see ca. 50MB swap used, after booting PR1.2	21:19
luke-jr	internetishard: Maemo uses a ridiculous amount of memory	21:19
luke-jr	more than KDE even	21:19
internetishard	tell me about it	21:19
internetishard	why?	21:19
luke-jr	it's GTK?	21:19
internetishard	yeah, 55M of swap here after fresh reboot	21:19
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DocScrutinizer-8	a lot of processes aka apps are preloaded during or shortly after boot	21:20
DocScrutinizer-8	that's basically why so much ram is "used"	21:21
internetishard	If there a more optimal way to manage maemo?	21:21
DocScrutinizer-8	camera-ui, browserd, even modest, phone-ui	21:21
internetishard	and on fresh reboot, you've 150M RAM, and 55M swap used too?	21:22
DocScrutinizer-8	internetishard: if you find and can verify a more optimal way that works for most users the best, then don't hesitate to let us know	21:23
internetishard	I don't know what is using the bulk of memory, but I'd guess that using a more dynamic scheme would be more optimal for more people	21:24
internetishard	Sort of like page faulting at different times	21:24
internetishard	I haven't tested meego yet, does it do much better?	21:25
DocScrutinizer-8	you can set several programs to not preload >effect: more free memory but huge startup delay when invoking one of those that got preloaded to get better latency	21:25
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internetishard	I see... Well I'm mostly concerning with having to restart when the system gets too bogged down	21:25
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internetishard	becoming unresponsive after a few days	21:25
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DocScrutinizer-8	that's usually caused by memory raping programs	21:26
alterego	Well, we're officially snowed in ...	21:26
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spiritd	why after installing new application there is no icon?	21:27
spiritd	or default blue box	21:27
spiritd	how can i fix it?	21:27
alterego	spiritd: there's a bug in hildon	21:27
alterego	restart the device is the simplest way to get it to work properly.	21:28
internetishard	DocScrutinizer-8, what programs memory rape? Is pidgin one of them? I use that the most	21:28
alterego	internetishard: use top, it'll tell you how much memort your apps use.	21:28
internetishard	http://www.mail-archive.com/otr-users@lists.cypherpunks.ca/msg00045.html any idea when OTR will work again, btw?	21:28
* timeless_mbp cries		21:28
spiritd	alterego y ... i though its better was than restart :/	21:29
timeless_mbp	Surf's Up was dubbed into Finnish	21:29
spiritd	way	21:29
timeless_mbp	Why oh Why oh Why	21:29
DocScrutinizer-8	internetishard: that's one of the hard to answer questions	21:29
* timeless_mbp kicks finnish television		21:29
alterego	spiritd: the other way, I think, is to touch the icon file and then the .desktop file.	21:29
internetishard	DocScrutinizer-8: what? when OTR will work is?	21:29
alterego	Though, it might be the other way around.	21:29
spiritd	ok	21:29
alterego	Might try and get my dvb stick to work with usb host today	21:32
Venemo_N900	hehe	21:34
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RST38h	Bank of America Cuts Off Wikileaks Transactions	21:42
RST38h	Hehe	21:42
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DokterW	Hi. Where is the menu file located? When I make changes to the menu they are not saved.	21:45
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Jaffa	DokterW: /etc/xdg/... and/or also under .local - as per the freedesktop.org menu spec	22:11
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DokterW	Jaffa: Awesome! Thanks!	22:12
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huee	hi	22:15
huee	ouch, bad panel :/	22:15
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nox-	moin	22:23
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alterego	Think my battery is starting to fail, It's about 2/3 full and I just took it off charge about 2.5 hours ago	22:28
alterego	And I've barely used it -_-	22:28
huee	alterego: or some battery-eating daemon?	22:29
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Venemo_N900	alterego: depends on how heavily you've used it since then	22:30
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alterego	I've taken 4 photos and that's it.	22:30
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alterego	No wifi connection, just 3G and no traffic anyway, well, no apps open.	22:31
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Venemo_N900	mhm	22:32
Venemo_N900	well then it's indeed failing	22:32
Venemo_N900	I also plugged out mine about 2.5 hrs ago and it's also 2/3 now	22:32
huee	and loadavg?	22:33
Venemo_N900	but I'been on the net, browsed TMO, made replies, emailed, made calls, and reviewed a bunch of stuff on gitorious	22:33
Venemo_N900	half of this from a train	22:34
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spiritd	ok ... packet injection working using neopwn kernel-power and modules + easy debian	22:44
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alterego	Hrm, how long does it take a package to promote from testing to exras once it has 10 votes.	23:09
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alterego	I can't remember itms been a while since I did this last.	23:09
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Venemo_N900	alterego: X-Fade should know	23:09
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alterego	I'll wait, until the week	23:10
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MohammadAG	_nicolai_, thanks :D	23:37
MohammadAG	Haven't been able to reply to the email, I fell asleep :P	23:37
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_nicolai_	no problem, I wasn't sure if was the right email address	23:46
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