IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-12-13

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MohammadAG	NooBmonk3y, I just used the 07 Dec image	00:01
lolloo_	why does it keep booting to meego	00:01
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lolloo_	i cant stop it !	00:02
MohammadAG	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.80/1.1.80.9.20101207.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.80.9.20101207.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 NooBmonk3y	00:02
lolloo_	i cant flash my phone anymoe, u-boot keeps booting into meego	00:03
MohammadAG	remove the battery, run flasher till it says Waiting for device or whatever, connect the USB, insert battery	00:04
NooBmonk3y	ty Mo! :) :)	00:05
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MohammadAG	yw	00:06
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NooBmonk3y	lol was 150kb/s and going sloooooooooooow, now randomly 1.5mb/s lol	00:07
NooBmonk3y	and dropping back down again :(	00:07
NooBmonk3y	back to 150 :(	00:07
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Saviq	hi all, do you maybe have an explanation of this behavior with the N900 battery - when reflashed, clean, it lasted 4-5 days on light use, but when I synced some music, that dropped to about 2 days...	00:09
Termana	good morning	00:10
Saviq	I'm thinking about maybe tracker being a bit aggressive on the CPU? does it scan when on battery and not directly requested?	00:10
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comawhite	how are the ovi maps (latest firwware)?	00:10
NooBmonk3y	Saviq, never got more then 14 hours, you don't use it enough :P	00:12
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NooBmonk3y	morning Termana	00:12
Saviq	NooBmonk3y: not me, my wife	00:12
Saviq	NooBmonk3y: I'm getting 1-1.5 days at the most	00:12
NooBmonk3y	:P	00:12
lolloo_	guys, even when i connect my charger to my phone u-boot start	00:12
lolloo_	and lets me into meego	00:13
NooBmonk3y	lolloo_, is it on the memory card?	00:13
lolloo_	yes but i have remove the memory card	00:13
Saviq	lolloo_: you need to either remove the sd card or write 'run noloboot'	00:13
NooBmonk3y	random!	00:13
Saviq	lolloo_: you have removed the sd card and you're still getting meego!?	00:13
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Saviq	that doesn't sound right, unless you've flashed it onto the device itself	00:14
lolloo_	no but it turns off the phone	00:14
lolloo_	and i when i plug the charger u-boot starts again	00:14
Saviq	lolloo_: yes, that's normal	00:14
NooBmonk3y	lolloo_, guide says "If you are unable to get back into Maemo, please follow http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware in order to reflash your device. This will destroy your current Maemo setup, but return your device to a working state"	00:14
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lolloo_	really?	00:14
Saviq	when you didn't have uboot it still started a minimal maemo system	00:15
Saviq	to handle the charging	00:15
lolloo_	but when i keep pressing U it still boots to u-boot	00:15
Saviq	and that's exactly what happens now	00:15
NooBmonk3y	or "For the technically minded, you can flasher '-F <firmware image> -u' and 'flasher -f zImage -R' to get your original kernel back and hopefully get back to your current Maemo setup. If you have used other kernels than PR1.3 kernel as is required, this will not work."	00:15
lolloo_	ok minimal maemo system	00:16
lolloo_	but u-boot starts	00:16
lolloo_	and no light	00:16
lolloo_	but i can see it booting.	00:17
Saviq	lolloo_: that's normal when you connect a charger	00:17
lolloo_	ok what shall i do, i know how flash procedure goes	00:17
Saviq	U only works when connecting to a USB port	00:17
Saviq	lolloo_: the procedure is the same	00:17
lolloo_	yes thats the problem, i cant let my pc recognise my phone as flash nokia	00:18
MohammadAG	blame windows	00:18
lolloo_	heh	00:18
lolloo_	strange, when i connect my charger while its off, u-boot starts	00:19
lolloo_	and then lets me go to meego	00:19
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Saviq	meego or maemo?	00:19
lolloo_	even without turning on the phone	00:19
lolloo_	meego	00:20
Saviq	with the sd card out?	00:20
MohammadAG	that's not possible	00:20
lolloo_	with sd card out it run noloboot automatically	00:20
NooBmonk3y	thats what i thought	00:20
jacekowski	uboot is in nand	00:20
lolloo_	but the phones turns off	00:20
Saviq	lolloo_: and that's standard behavior when connecting to a charger	00:20
jacekowski	but probably has no checking for sd card	00:20
Saviq	jacekowski: it does	00:20
Saviq	jacekowski: it tries the mmc and runs nolo otherwis	00:21
Saviq	+e	00:21
MohammadAG	default is mmc, indeed	00:21
lolloo_	yes it run noloboot but after that it turns off	00:21
lardman	night all	00:21
Saviq	lolloo_: when connecting to a PC the device should be 'hijacked' by flasher	00:21
NooBmonk3y	night lardman	00:21
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MohammadAG	run it again	00:21
MohammadAG	that's normal	00:21
MohammadAG	night larsivi	00:21
lolloo_	your right Saviq	00:21
* MohammadAG sighs, sorry		00:22
lolloo_	but it doest	00:22
lolloo_	not	00:22
MohammadAG	windows	00:22
Saviq	yeah, that's probably the issue	00:22
MohammadAG	it can't enumerate devices quickly	00:22
NooBmonk3y	night alls ;) - may try meego tomorrow ;)	00:22
MohammadAG	night NooBmonk3y	00:22
jacekowski	MohammadAG: nah	00:22
jacekowski	MohammadAG: nolo will wait	00:22
NooBmonk3y	ty for your help earlier mo, see ya'll 2moro	00:22
jacekowski	MohammadAG: for a while	00:22
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jacekowski	MohammadAG: it's only internal ROM that's impatient	00:23
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, idk, never flashed with windows, but uboot immediately starts	00:23
MohammadAG	less than a second	00:23
lolloo_	yes uboot imediatly starts!	00:23
jacekowski	with U pressed?	00:23
lolloo_	yes	00:23
jacekowski	that shouldn't happen	00:23
Saviq	jacekowski: yes, same here	00:23
jacekowski	unless they changed something in new nolo	00:23
Saviq	lolloo_: that's because flasher on windows does not 'hijack' the device fast enough	00:24
lolloo_	yes maybe	00:24
jacekowski	Saviq: there is no need for that	00:24
* Arkenoi thinks about designing alternate back cover (with better stand and maybe even microsd to sd slot converter) and manufacturing it in china.. would you buy such a thing?		00:24
lolloo_	but when connecting charger meego start even without turning on the phone	00:24
MohammadAG	on ubuntu it works nicely	00:24
MohammadAG	jacekowski, no, U works on ubuntu, told you it's windows	00:24
Saviq	jacekowski: oh wait, actually it waits when U is pressed _while_ turning on	00:24
Saviq	lolloo_: tried that ^?	00:24
jacekowski	Saviq: if nolo detects 5V on usb port it will wait	00:24
jacekowski	untill some timeout	00:25
jacekowski	i don't remember how long	00:25
Saviq	jacekowski: uboot starts immediately here	00:25
Saviq	like half a second	00:25
jacekowski	if enumeration happens	00:25
jacekowski	it will stay like that for very long time	00:25
jacekowski	otherwise will switch off	00:25
Saviq	unless I keep U pressed	00:25
jacekowski	or boot linux	00:26
jacekowski	possibly	00:26
jacekowski	i never disassembled 1.3 nolo	00:26
jacekowski	just 1.2	00:26
luke-jr	1.3 has new NOLO?	00:26
jacekowski	yes	00:26
jacekowski	there are some minor changes	00:26
Saviq	lolloo_: try pressing U _while_ connecting the USB cable	00:27
jacekowski	but i never looked what are they exactly	00:27
Saviq	lolloo_: stays on flash-mode until I disconnect it	00:27
MohammadAG	(or run flasher-3.5 -R)	00:27
lolloo_	yes i keep it open	00:28
lolloo_	but it doesnt catch it	00:28
Saviq	lolloo_: "open"? you mean pressed?	00:28
lolloo_	i mean flasher	00:28
lolloo_	and also 'u'	00:29
Saviq	ah ok	00:29
lolloo_	bok now i removed mmc,	00:29
lolloo_	rmeoved back cover	00:29
lolloo_	and connected charger	00:29
lolloo_	but keeps rebooting	00:29
lolloo_	and doesnt recharge	00:29
MohammadAG	well, something's wrong with your modules then	00:29
Saviq	lolloo_: do you mean to flash or to recharge?	00:29
MohammadAG	Saviq, I think he has the kernel without the modules	00:30
lolloo_	how can i solve that?	00:30
lolloo_	it keeps rebooting	00:30
MohammadAG	flash stock kernel	00:30
lolloo_	while charger plugged	00:30
lolloo_	i would love to flash,	00:31
lolloo_	but	00:31
lolloo_	u-boot starts and ignores key 'u'	00:31
MohammadAG	that's impossible	00:31
lolloo_	wow	00:31
MohammadAG	since it's not the kernel that handles U	00:31
MohammadAG	hold U, then plug the cable	00:31
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lolloo_	even when holding 'u' u-boot starts ignoring me	00:33
MohammadAG	u-boot isn't even present when you should be holding U	00:34
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lolloo_	so strange, that penguin keeps showing up	00:35
lolloo_	even with u key presses and then i plug usb	00:35
Saviq	lolloo_: why do you connect the charger?	00:35
lolloo_	just checking	00:36
MohammadAG	k, do this	00:36
MohammadAG	plug in the USB	00:36
MohammadAG	when uboot starts, press any key	00:36
lolloo_	ok	00:36
MohammadAG	type reset, press enter and immediately hold U	00:36
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lolloo_	it ignores u! and the penguin shows up	00:37
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lolloo_	ok rmeoved mmc, back cover, connected usb, booted to u-boot, pressed anykey	00:41
lolloo_	typed reset and imediatly pressed 'u'	00:41
lolloo_	but it still keeps booting back to u-boot	00:41
lolloo_	as if nothing pressed	00:41
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MohammadAG	k, windows is retarded, usb a hub (might not work) or boot into linux	00:42
lolloo_	alright	00:42
lolloo_	maybe windows.	00:42
MohammadAG	thp, ping	00:42
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lolloo_	thanks Moh. i will try ubuntu live cd.	00:47
lolloo_	reset command is good one too.	00:47
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crashanddie	Jaffa: pong	00:56
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MohammadAG	LOL? ^	01:33
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BCMM_	MohammadAG: does your client not show you global notices?	01:42
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MohammadAG	it does	01:43
MohammadAG	but the notice came in 5 minutes after it quit	01:43
BCMM_	heh, didn't notice that	01:44
BCMM_	that sounds like quite a database issue...	01:44
thp	MohammadAG: pong	01:44
MohammadAG	hey thp :) you've worked with parsing .desktop files before right?	01:45
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Jaffa	crashanddie: was pondering on who it was you tapped up for MohammadAG's efforts.	01:49
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Arkenoi	btw did anyone ever successfully got flash 10.1 from TI?	01:50
MohammadAG	thp, thought you might be interested in http://i53.tinypic.com/qqtv6s.jpg, as it's hardcoded to those apps for now	01:50
MohammadAG	Stskeeps did, don't bother asking him though	01:51
Arkenoi	wow	01:51
Jaffa	And it's shit	01:51
Arkenoi	so it is really possible	01:52
MohammadAG	^	01:52
Arkenoi	almost sure it is shit, as it has no hw acceleration anyways	01:52
Arkenoi	any other problems with it?	01:52
MohammadAG	probably doesn't include flash 10.1 features	01:52
MohammadAG	i.e you're better off with a sed'd version	01:52
Arkenoi	10.1 which is not really 10.1? omfg.	01:55
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MohammadAG	anyone used quilt in here?	01:56
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Termana	MohammadAG, what do you want to know? Is it a complex problem? :p	01:58
MohammadAG	Termana, why do I have a feeling you've never used it?	01:59
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Termana	MohammadAG, sure I have, the MeeGo kernel tree uses quilt	01:59
Termana	So I've used it. Just not much	02:00
MohammadAG	oh nice :)	02:00
MohammadAG	how do I specify strip level?	02:00
MohammadAG	I've tried QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt push -a -q fold -p0, but it isn't working	02:00
jacekowski	-p1	02:02
javispedro	I do not think "accelerated" Flash 10.1 mobile exists.	02:02
MohammadAG	jacekowski, that's default, I want it set to 0	02:03
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javispedro	MohammadAG: you do not specify strip level	02:03
javispedro	suposeddly you should not fiddle with quilt's made patches	02:03
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javispedro	if you want to insert an external patch, either apply it then quilt diff or just quilt import it	02:04
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MohammadAG	it's not quilt made	02:04
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Termana	MohammadAG, you have added the patch to quilt's patch list?	02:05
MohammadAG	yes	02:05
MohammadAG	meh, I'll just patch it in manually	02:05
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Termana	Have you tried making it -p num rather than -pnum	02:06
javispedro	ah, you are using fold	02:06
Termana	Probably won't make a difference, but some things are fiddly.	02:06
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* javispedro fails to parse MohammadAG's command line		02:07
javispedro	does quilt accept two commands in one invocation or what?	02:07
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thp	MohammadAG: what's hardcoded?	02:11
MohammadAG	the apps	02:11
thp	MohammadAG: or more specifically: what's that in the screenshot? ;)	02:11
MohammadAG	thp, ever used a 5800?	02:12
MohammadAG	http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/19/0,,i=193488&sz=1,00.jpg	02:12
thp	ah, so you are patching hildon-desktop to show that bar when you come from the edge of the screen?	02:14
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MohammadAG	no, it's just a media bar that shows (actually, should, no code yet) when you touch the proximity (the 5800 has a dedicated button)	02:15
MohammadAG	and it's not patching hildon-desktop, it's completely ignoring it :P	02:15
thp	nice concept. would love to see that	02:15
thp	you need code for parsing .desktop files?>	02:15
MohammadAG	yeah, to set the shortcuts	02:16
thp	python? or c?	02:16
MohammadAG	(it's in Qt btw)	02:16
MohammadAG	C++ :P	02:16
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thp	there's a .ini-style file reader i think	02:16
MohammadAG	ever worked with Qt signals btw?	02:17
thp	yes	02:17
MohammadAG	trying to do something like connect(ui->button1, SIGNAL(clicked()), this, SLOT(openApplication(QString("mediaplayer"))));	02:17
thp	that does'nt work ;)	02:17
MohammadAG	as expected :)	02:17
thp	you can't pass a QString there like you do	02:18
thp	you can only connect the signal directly	02:18
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thp	i.e. SIGNAL(clicked()), SLOT(openApplication())	02:18
MohammadAG	yeah, I know that	02:18
MohammadAG	but I want something that passes a string	02:18
thp	there you can then use a switch with QObject::sender()	02:18
MohammadAG	oh	02:18
MohammadAG	that's new to me	02:18
thp	it might not be kosher, but "Works for me(tm)"	02:19
thp	-> Warning: This function violates the object-oriented principle of modularity. However, getting access to the sender might be useful when many signals are connected to a single slot.	02:20
thp	MohammadAG: and QSignalMapper might allow to do things like "send string as parameter for when button1 is the source", but i've heard it might be slow	02:21
* MohammadAG violates OOP		02:22
thp	maemo.org is down	02:25
jacekowski	you have to say "akamai sucks"	02:25
jacekowski	and it will start working again	02:25
MohammadAG	amsn_0.98.4-maemo0.tar.gz 49% 6824KB 54.7KB/s 02:08 ETA	02:25
MohammadAG	still working for me ^	02:25
MohammadAG	(drop.maemo.org at least)	02:26
jacekowski	repository.maemo.org is somewhere else	02:26
MohammadAG	my bad then :)	02:26
MohammadAG	though it's up for me	02:26
MohammadAG	(m.o)	02:27
thp	MohammadAG: and i want to see that app launcher :) not only with apps, but with scriptable actions if possible	02:27
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MohammadAG	thp, where did you get the docs for switching the sender?	03:00
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GeneralAntilles	Hmm, when did Stephen ship the first bug jar?	03:35
GeneralAntilles	2008?	03:35
pronto	i have a bug :o	03:36
pronto	http://pronto185.com/n900/camera/Omg.wtf.ahhh.12_12_2010.jpg	03:36
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myu	OH FUCK	03:39
myu	I hate those things	03:39
myu	so much	03:39
myu	I think that one is big enough to eat a mouse	03:39
johnx	pronto, which component was that in? "kitchen-counter" or "floor"?	03:39
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pronto	johnx: floor	03:40
johnx	yeah, floor is pretty buggy it seems :\|	03:40
myu	need to debug the floor	03:40
myu	imo	03:40
pronto	i agree	03:41
krayon	Install surface-spray-git	03:41
GeneralAntilles	myu, they eat other bugs.	03:41
myu	and rats	03:41
myu	its just childhood trauma	03:41
myu	irrational fears	03:42
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	03:42
GeneralAntilles	This is what I usually see crawling around: http://extension.entm.purdue.edu/urban/new_urban/images/changlu_pics/American_cockroach2.jpg	03:42
* Jaffa should go to bed.		03:43
javispedro	the "bed" component is also buggy.	03:43
javispedro	there's no escape.	03:43
Jaffa	01:43 local time is not a sensible time to have been watching Matt Smith on Craig Ferguson's chat show.	03:43
Jaffa	javispedro: At least I can reboot my brain	03:43
GeneralAntilles	But tomorrow's only Monday.	03:44
Jaffa	Work, tho'	03:45
krayon	GeneralAntilles: Ours are better: http://australian-insects.com/imguploads/Australian-Cockroach.jpg	03:45
GeneralAntilles	krayon, but do yours FLY?	03:45
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krayon	GeneralAntilles: Actually, I've never seen them fly :/ So either they can't ... or are just somewhat reluctant to do so whilst I'm trying to kill them.	03:47
GeneralAntilles	krayon, interesting. Evidently yes, and we've got a lot of those here in Florida, too.	03:49
GeneralAntilles	Apparently fairly closely related.	03:49
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Jaffa	This sounds like a conversation about the sequels to Tremors now ;-)	03:50
Jaffa	Mine don't fly, but they are bi-pedal heat seakers.	03:50
GeneralAntilles	That series had disturbing longevity.	03:50
* Jaffa never saw the TV series; nor Tremors 4 (IIRC)		03:51
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myu	aus has some pretty hardcore spiders	03:54
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myu	im pretty sure id shit myself over there	03:54
myu	in a rural area of course	03:55
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody know why the N900 hardware meetings were cancelled?	03:56
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: ping Stskeeps on #meego ;-)	04:00
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa: I'm sure he's not awake.	04:00
pronto	and the floor is de-bugged	04:00
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: He'd be stupid to in his TZ.	04:00
Jaffa	Oh.	04:00
Jaffa	Right.	04:00
Jaffa	Gone.	04:00
Jaffa	G'night	04:00
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa: but if you want to try to dig out the reason in the morning if I don't catch him before I go to bed. . . .	04:00
GeneralAntilles	night	04:00
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pronto	http://pronto185.com/n900/camera/Hahaha.i.win.this.time.mr.evil.bug.12_12_2010.jpg see, floor= debugged	04:03
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comawhite	since maemo is "dead" will the control be given to the community to allow work to be added etc? or not?	04:31
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luke-jr	comawhite: nope :/	05:01
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comawhite	luke-jr, lame	05:02
luke-jr	u	05:03
luke-jr	:p	05:03
* comawhite throws a windows phone 7 at luke-jr		05:04
* SpeedEvil watches as the phone hits luke-jr and bounces off in a strangely kinetic flowing manner.		05:05
javispedro	"Spurious DMA IRQ" -- first time I see it :)	05:05
javispedro	well, time to go. cya.	05:06
MohammadAG	http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediabar you know you want it	05:06
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MohammadAG	http://i53.tinypic.com/qqtv6s.jpg ^	05:07
MohammadAG	I'll up source tomorrow, too tired now :/	05:07
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ShadowJK	comawhite, community did updates for Maemo4, I expect to see the same thing for Maemo5, though once MeeGo comes out on an actual device people will jump there anyways..	05:09
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comawhite	ShadowJK, probably so, but people will still have it for another year or so. Depending on prices and also depending on how MeeGO picks up in the market	05:13
comawhite	ShadowJK, If the MeeGo phone is like the N900 but better (from all the reasons I heard bad of the N900), then I would see more people leaving the N900 behind	05:14
comawhite	But not at the start	05:14
comawhite	for at least a few months if any	05:15
ShadowJK	Yeah unfortunately it looks like many of the things that make N900 good is getting thrown away :)	05:16
comawhite	But if I don't like the meego phone that comes out, i'll just use my n900 until a better one	05:16
comawhite	ShadowJK, I hope the hell not	05:16
comawhite	ShadowJK, from what I've seen the n900 is capable of doing, I don't want anything gone, only improved and more added	05:16
comawhite	like I want the phone to expand the screen to full front screen, keep the IR, a better gui system, lighter, faster	05:17
comawhite	maybe more memory	05:17
ShadowJK	I saw this interview with Nokia design vice executive or something, he said something like that phones these days kinda suck because they can only be used by staring at the screen, so they're going to remove all hardware keys (?!)	05:17
comawhite	and batter battery	05:17
comawhite	all hardware keys?	05:18
ShadowJK	nfi	05:18
comawhite	what voice activation everything?	05:18
comawhite	i never liked voice controlled apps	05:18
comawhite	too glitchy	05:18
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ShadowJK	I don't think it makes sense, if you want to use it without looking at it you need more interfaces with tactile feedback so you don't have to actually look at where you're pressing on the touchscreen	05:19
comawhite	The N900 is very powerful, but it never really took off so to speak	05:19
ShadowJK	Definitely more memory though, it's the biggest weakness	05:19
ShadowJK	all that stuttering	05:19
comawhite	i get my phone wednesday ;P	05:19
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comawhite	i didn't really see the fat problems other users complained, because i got to touch one in my job interview and it wasn't what people claimed	05:20
comawhite	but that's only my opinion	05:20
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ShadowJK	Well.. There's alot of people that are like "Oooh, it has a shoot-self-in-foot feature! Hmm.. I don't know how to use it, but there's a thread on the forum how to shoot self in foot, I'll ask there and follow the instructions unless they tell me to go back to page 1 and read the instructions already posted" (3 days later) "Hey I shot myself in the foot, this phone sucks! You suck!"	05:22
comawhite	Well I use Gentoo, I shot myself in the foot for months trying to understand that distro, now I enjoy it and love it :)	05:22
comawhite	i still get critised for loving Gentoo :P	05:23
ShadowJK	And then there was this guy yesterday that was like "Why does it corrupt my filesystem all the time? I overclocked to 2Ghz and undervolted, but that's unrelated"	05:23
comawhite	moron	05:23
comawhite	it's a cell phone, it's not suppose to be overclocked	05:24
comawhite	sure it's a OS on steroids	05:24
comawhite	but that's besides the point	05:24
ShadowJK	btw, luke is the local stallman, and he's also been trying to get KDE running on his N900 :-)	05:25
comawhite	hehe	05:25
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comawhite	i hope KDE can run on it one day, but i want to see that more on meego when it's released	05:26
comawhite	but tbh, i think the meego phone will have more memory	05:26
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comawhite	how's meego on the n900?	05:27
ShadowJK	no power management atm, it doubles as handwarmer	05:27
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comawhite	hehe	05:27
ShadowJK	gotta run, good luck with the n900 and have the firmware images and flasher utility ready for when you shoot self in foot ;-)	05:28
comawhite	ShadowJK, what about nitroid?	05:28
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comawhite	hehe later	05:28
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blackthorne	hi	07:06
luke-jr	≡	07:09
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DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: (buy) actually I would	07:52
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RST38h	Well. Moorning.	08:01
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DocScrutinizer	morning RST38h	08:05
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RST38h	http://gizmodo.com/5712693/watch-the-metrodome-collapse-from-the-inside	08:52
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lfod-	damn, i heard about it, crazy, can you imagine if that happened during gametime?	08:57
RST38h	yes.	08:57
RST38h	would be mighty spectacular, too.	08:57
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DocScrutinizer	considering the fact that this clip made it on virtually avery TV station's newsflash on this globe, I bet the royalties easily will buy the new roof	09:03
doc\|home	they're replacing a very similar style roof here in Vancouver	09:04
doc\|home	it's costing 5-600million...	09:04
doc\|home	the new one can't even be opened or closed when it's raining...	09:04
* RST38h wonders what prevented the arena owners from hiring a few migrant workers to clean the roof		09:05
doc\|home	federal law? :)	09:06
DocScrutinizer	I could go outside for an hour or two, and then contribute with a few near-fatal snow and icicle falls to pavement	09:06
doc\|home	It's probably a bonus for them. now they can get the local government to buy them a new roof. (again, this is what happened here in Vancouver)	09:06
RST38h	doc: It is not Germany, they are still allowed to hire help in the US=)	09:07
doc\|home	RST38h: hah, that kind of stupidity's not limited to Germany :)	09:07
RST38h	Oh well. TTG to work.	09:09
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: what prevented them - pure ignorance I guess. At a certain point in time it's too late then	09:09
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DocScrutinizer	btw "video not available" - HAHA	09:12
DocScrutinizer	toldya thy know how to make money out of that	09:12
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DocScrutinizer	get your ticket for next big roof collapse now, and have your 10% discount	09:14
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Termana	good morning	10:15
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NooBmonk3y	Mornin :)	10:18
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NooBmonk3y	hmmm if flashing meego, is it possible to do it via the usb cable to the memory card, as i have no externally memory card reader :P (Just checking :\|)	10:27
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NooBmonk3y	(ie connected to the n900, with memory card in)	10:27
X-Fade	NooBmonk3y: Yes, the memory card shows up as a mass storage device.	10:28
NooBmonk3y	:) yay! - as it had nitrdoid on it, it seems to be showing up as 2 partitions	10:28
X-Fade	Another option is to copy the image to the device and dd to the memory card :)	10:28
NooBmonk3y	/dev/sde1 1 180060 5761919+ c W95 FAT32 (LBA)	10:28
NooBmonk3y	/dev/sde2 180061 242560 2000000 83 Linux	10:29
NooBmonk3y	assuming sde2 is the nitdroid one :P	10:29
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NooBmonk3y	ahhh well dloaded it to the pc, so this command should work sudo dd bs=4096 if=<raw_image> of=/dev/sdX	10:30
NooBmonk3y	eeeek, sudo dd bs=4096 if=<raw_image> of=/dev/sde	10:30
X-Fade	If you are really sure sde is the right one.	10:31
NooBmonk3y	hehehe - i do like the amount of warnings :P	10:31
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NooBmonk3y	Disk /dev/sde: 7948 MB ... it is an 8gb memory card :)	10:32
NooBmonk3y	(the only 8gb card :) )	10:32
X-Fade	NooBmonk3y: That sounds ok then.	10:32
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NooBmonk3y	hmmmm 30 mins till work... lol	10:33
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NooBmonk3y	i really should be less nervous when i flash, done it enough lol	10:36
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NooBmonk3y	shoulda asked.... roughly how long should it take? lol	10:43
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X-Fade	Depends on the write speed of your card.	10:44
NooBmonk3y	oooo probably slowish, class 4 i think	10:44
X-Fade	MB/s * image size :)	10:44
X-Fade	Well the other way around and devide by.... hmm need more coffee.	10:45
NooBmonk3y	ahhh okies :)	10:45
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NooBmonk3y	lol	10:45
NooBmonk3y	done yay!	10:45
NooBmonk3y	1946157057 bytes (1.9 GB) copied, 188.778 s, 10.3 MB/s	10:46
X-Fade	sync to be sure.	10:46
NooBmonk3y	sync?	10:46
X-Fade	type 'sync', hit enter.	10:47
NooBmonk3y	doh, doesnt say that on the wiki :P	10:47
NooBmonk3y	just booted down	10:47
X-Fade	Well. It should be ok if you don't have writeback cache enabled ;)	10:47
RobbieThe1st	When you shutdown the N900 it will auto sync	10:47
NooBmonk3y	oo its doing something :\|	10:48
X-Fade	Yeah, on proper shutdown you should be fine.	10:48
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NooBmonk3y	lol X-Fade i'm hoping it is just gonna work, but then doesn't everyone ;)	10:48
NooBmonk3y	eeeek 8 minutes till work :P	10:49
NooBmonk3y	ok, well i have a very random white pointer on a black screen, so somethings happenned	10:49
NooBmonk3y	yay! meego screens seem to be loading	10:50
NooBmonk3y	wohoooooooooooo	10:50
NooBmonk3y	and boooger, back in 8 hours! have a good day, and thank you X-Fade !	10:50
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Noobmonk3y	thanks again X-Fade , booted into meego fine :) see what they mean about being in development, hehe	11:26
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X-Fade	Noobmonk3y: yeah, no performance optimizations yet.	11:28
Noobmonk3y	hehe, not a problem, its just to start looking at how to develop on it :) enough for me :)	11:29
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DocScrutinizer	(shutdown) won't help to finish a sync for mass storage mode dd. You need to "safely remove" on your PC	12:00
DocScrutinizer	(bs=4096) why that? it's extremely small a blocksize	12:01
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DocScrutinizer	s/blocksize/buffersize; as that better tells what this parameter actually does	12:01
DocScrutinizer	bs=1M is sorta fine	12:02
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer, was just using meego install guide from the meego site	12:03
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lcuk	Noobmonk3y, which guide specifically, share a link to help add context :)	12:39
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Noobmonk3y	lcuk, link is on my home pc, i am at work on n900 lol, will go look	12:55
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Noobmonk3y	lcuk, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC	12:56
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alterego	Noobmonk3y: not using uboot? :)	13:01
Noobmonk3y	alterego, yup i am	13:02
Noobmonk3y	its working :)	13:02
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Noobmonk3y	would be nicer to have a select screen like multiboot though	13:02
alterego	Cool :)	13:02
alterego	Yeah	13:02
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Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG's package for kernel v6 works very well!	13:04
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Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: ping	13:16
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hrw	TMO users are fun	13:25
Venemo_N900	hehe	13:26
hrw	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66767 thread made me laugh	13:27
hrw	I wontfix-ed all my nokia related bugs and it turned to 9 pages discussion...	13:27
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BCMM	is there any way to reset the DSP without rebooting?	13:29
Corsac	hrw: wow, I missed the end of support announcement	13:29
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, pong	13:31
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, oh so it doesn't brick devices? cra... yay	13:31
hrw	MohammadAG: your qt mediaplayer is packaged somewhere?	13:32
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MohammadAG	hrw, http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer it's just a UI clone for now	13:33
hrw	ok	13:33
alterego	mohammediaplayer! :D	13:33
* alterego chuckles		13:33
hrw	MohammadAG: QML or normal Qt Designer ui files?	13:33
BCMM	MohammadAG: as in, there is no backend yet, or as in it uses the old backend for now?	13:34
MohammadAG	Qt designer	13:34
* MohammadAG stabs alterego		13:34
MohammadAG	no backend yet	13:34
lcuk	lol alterego	13:35
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Noobmonk3y	lol MohammadAG , not bricked it yet anyway!	13:35
BCMM	is there mpd for maemo?	13:35
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ZogG	BCMM i think yes	13:42
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ZogG	there are mpd and xmms2	13:42
ZogG	BCMM i think it's in repos even	13:43
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Venemo_N900	is the media player coming along nicely MohammadAG?	13:44
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MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, UI is almost done, lardman's been looking at adding mafw to it	13:47
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, http://i53.tinypic.com/qqtv6s.jpg	13:47
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Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: good news :)	13:47
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: hm, what's this stuff?	13:47
Venemo_N900	some sort of always-on shortcut widgets, or a bug?	13:48
MohammadAG	Venemo_N900, mediabar, similar to the 5800's, but since the N900 has no button for it, it's using the proximity	13:48
MohammadAG	shortcut widget, activated by the sensor	13:49
Venemo_N900	mhm	13:49
MohammadAG	http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediabar	13:49
MohammadAG	uploading source in a bit	13:49
alterego	Does compositing work for that width MohammadAG ?	13:49
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Venemo_N900	interesting	13:49
MohammadAG	alterego, composoting is?	13:49
Venemo_N900	why not with the camera button?	13:49
MohammadAG	alterego, it's ignoring the whole desktop	13:49
alterego	Does transparency effects work?	13:49
alterego	Yes, I know.	13:50
MohammadAG	yes	13:50
MohammadAG	i was surprised it worked	13:50
alterego	Wicked	13:50
MohammadAG	Qt::QA_TranslucentBackground or sth	13:50
MohammadAG	s/QA/WA/	13:50
infobot	MohammadAG meant: Qt::WA_TranslucentBackground or sth	13:50
alterego	I want media player controls	13:51
Venemo_N900	:)	13:51
MohammadAG	alterego, I want transitions :P	13:51
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alterego	MohammadAG: where's the source? I'll give you a patch	13:51
MohammadAG	alterego, sec, making a git page is hard on the N900	13:52
alterego	I'm thinking scroll in from the side and fade in with opacity.	13:53
Venemo_N900	good idea :P	13:53
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Venemo_N900	but let's use the camera key and not the sensor	13:53
Venemo_N900	I always accidentally cover the sensor...	13:54
MohammadAG	why?	13:54
MohammadAG	i'm adding a timeout	13:54
alterego	Doesn't matter yet	13:54
MohammadAG	like hold for 2 seconds	13:54
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alterego	Shortcuts can be changed.	13:54
MohammadAG	but the sensor is _ALWAYS_ on, so it's better to use it for something good i suppose :P	13:54
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Finally got around to checking out Qt Media Player (really needs a good name, I still suggest Omp for its similarity to 'Amp')	13:55
alterego	Mohammedia player	13:55
alterego	I can't help it :D	13:55
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: make it configurable then please :P	13:55
MohammadAG	looks like Macromedia	13:56
Jaffa	alterego: Hardly incites additional contribution, does it? :-p	13:56
alterego	Jaffa: he's going to work on Flash 10.1 next, Mohammedia Flash 10.1	13:56
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MohammadAG	/kick alterego	13:57
alterego	:)	13:57
alterego	You love it :P	13:57
Venemo_N900	hehehe	13:58
MohammadAG	it sounds better than Maemohammad :P	13:58
alterego	:)	13:58
Venemo_N900	alterego: your sense of humor is approaching lcuk's :P	13:58
lcuk	nahh	13:58
alterego	I'm not that disturbed .. Yet ..	13:59
Venemo_N900	:D	13:59
lcuk	a quote from #liqbase	13:59
lcuk	* lcuk rubs his nipple in appreciation	13:59
lcuk	<lcuk> big circular motions too :P	13:59
* alterego wonders what was being apprciated at that time ..		13:59
Venemo_N900	hehe	13:59
lcuk	<lcuk> KotCzarny, i am enjoying my very sensitive nipple :)	13:59
jacekowski	hmm, it's 11:59 and i'm already bored	13:59
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lcuk	http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_configure_the_TrackPoint	13:59
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lcuk	(incase you pervs thought I meant anything other than computer nipple)	14:00
jacekowski	nipples?	14:00
jacekowski	tits?	14:00
alterego	Heh	14:01
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MohammadAG	alterego, http://gitorious.org/mediabar/mediabar	14:06
alterego	Looking at it now	14:07
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alterego	Think I'd prefer it as QML though :P	14:08
Corsac	lcuk: you mean your clit?	14:09
MohammadAG	I know I'm supposed to use the pid of the program (how do I get that in Qt?) instead of 1, but... wth	14:09
Corsac	(#243)	14:09
MohammadAG	alterego, don't get me started :P	14:09
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MohammadAG	meh, LaunchApplication doesn't return anything	14:10
* MohammadAG adjusts code		14:10
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alterego	error proximityd not found :D	14:17
* alterego installs		14:18
MohammadAG	good thing I added that	14:18
MohammadAG	but the app still launches	14:18
alterego	Yes	14:18
MohammadAG	(got no idea how to break launch from the constructor	14:18
MohammadAG	)	14:18
alterego	QApplication::exit() ?	14:18
MohammadAG	that works from the constructor?	14:19
Venemo_N900	yes	14:19
alterego	Anyhow, erm, does it not hide yet?	14:19
MohammadAG	last time I checked it didn't :/	14:19
MohammadAG	Mediabar: ERROR: proximityd not found!	14:20
MohammadAG	Mediabar initialized,	14:20
MohammadAG	nope, doesn't work	14:20
alterego	Then you're doing it wrong :P	14:20
MohammadAG	no	14:20
MohammadAG	not at launch	14:20
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MohammadAG	afaik, I can't do this from the constructor	14:20
alterego	How do I get it to hide ?	14:20
alterego	Yes you can	14:20
MohammadAG	click a button	14:20
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MohammadAG	http://gitorious.org/mediabar/mediabar/blobs/master/widget.cpp#line43	14:21
MohammadAG	then why's that ignored? :)	14:21
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alterego	How do you get it to appear again then?	14:21
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MohammadAG	tap the sensor	14:22
alterego	It's not doing anything :/	14:22
MohammadAG	hmm	14:22
MohammadAG	start proximityd (why isn't that stuff started automatically...)	14:22
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: Because it eats battery :)	14:23
alterego	It is, and it is running :P	14:23
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, nope, the sensor is always on	14:23
Venemo	hi	14:23
MohammadAG	X-Fade, and the service should be always on	14:23
alterego	Ah ,"respawning too fast" ..	14:23
alterego	Great ..	14:23
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Are you sure about that?	14:23
MohammadAG	yes	14:23
X-Fade	Even if the screen is locked?	14:24
MohammadAG	two sensors, front and back, are always active	14:24
Venemo	MohammadAG: what's the problem?	14:24
MohammadAG	not sure about that, but afaik yes	14:24
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chem\|st	re	14:24
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chem\|st	has anyone experiences with gorillamobile and n900 yet?	14:25
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alterego	I think the problem is actually proximityd	14:25
alterego	It doesn't appear to be sending any signals ..	14:25
MohammadAG	well, it has to be initialized first	14:26
MohammadAG	which is what I do in the constructor	14:26
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MohammadAG	so CTRL+C and start it again	14:26
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alterego	Still nothing.	14:27
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MohammadAG	alterego, figured it out yet?	14:35
* lardman remembers he is supposed to check the bugtracker for mBarcode bugs		14:35
jacekowski	i just had WTF moment	14:35
jacekowski	when i looked at calendar	14:35
jacekowski	how does it know when somebody has birthday?	14:35
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lardman	gets data from the contacts app	14:36
trx	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66938	14:36
trx	anyone tried this before?	14:36
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alterego	MohammadAG: nope	14:36
jacekowski	is it avrcp profile or something else?	14:37
lardman	I think that's a wired headphone isn't it?	14:37
trx	yes	14:37
alterego	MohammadAG: I'll try restarting my device and see if that makes a difference.	14:38
MohammadAG	alterego, trying it on another device over ssh	14:38
BCMM	there seem to be several plugins to use MSN IM in maemo. anyone know the difference or have a recommendation?	14:39
MohammadAG	alterego, worked without a reboot (though I did start it as root)	14:40
Venemo	BCMM: Pecan has a bug which the author has been failing to repair for more than a half year	14:41
BCMM	Venemo: thanks!	14:41
Venemo	BCMM: Haze fails to log in about 50% of the time, and is buggy	14:41
BCMM	i didn't see one called haze...	14:42
Venemo	BCMM: it is in the "pidgin protocols plugin..." package	14:42
BCMM	what about "MSN protocol plugin for conversations and contacts"?	14:42
Venemo	BCMM: Butterfly (the plain "MSN protocol plugin") is working most of the time, sometimes it can't login and says "network error"	14:43
BCMM	thanks	14:43
BCMM	Venemo: that just happens with everything i think. their servers fail.	14:43
Venemo	all in all, none of them is very good for everyday use	14:43
BCMM	well, MSN IM itself probably isn't	14:43
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Venemo	it can't login even when I can from desktop	14:44
Venemo	so... something's wrong there	14:44
BCMM	Venemo: windows desktop?	14:44
Venemo	BCMM: yep.	14:44
Venemo	BCMM: I sometimes log in from Linux too (with Empathy)	14:44
BCMM	i think they have different servers for different protocol versions	14:44
MohammadAG	alterego, try running dbus-send --dest=proximityd.method.change --type=method_call --print-reply /proximityd/method/change proximityd.method.change.Change string:turnOn int32:1	14:44
BCMM	(or something)	14:44
jacekowski	BCMM: jabber + transports is the best option	14:45
Venemo	BCMM: that's possible, but anyway it's annoying as hell	14:45
BCMM	and the ones for older protocols version go wrong quite a lot, probably to dissaude people from relying unofficial clients	14:45
BCMM	jacekowski: that's internet services that bridge jabber and MSN, right?	14:45
jacekowski	yes	14:45
jacekowski	msn will drain battery a lot more than jabber	14:46
BCMM	ah	14:46
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jacekowski	so you can let your jabber server do all stuff	14:46
BCMM	jacekowski: thanks, i'll look at that - how does one do that?	14:46
Venemo	BCMM: your best bet would be trying Pecan and see if you encounter its bug	14:46
Corsac	as if jabber wasn't draining battery like a mad	14:46
jacekowski	BCMM: find jabber server that has transports to msn, create account, register with transport, and use it	14:46
jacekowski	Corsac: msn uses a lot more	14:47
jacekowski	jabber is one of lightest protocols avaliable	14:47
BCMM	ugh, just remembered taht MSN doesn't let you log in from two clients at the same time	14:47
jacekowski	esspecialy if you need multiple protocols	14:47
jacekowski	because then you have one jabber connection and server deals with transports	14:47
BCMM	is it possible, using a jabber transport, to recieve incomming MSN messages on more than one machine at once?	14:47
jacekowski	yes	14:48
lardman	BCMM: you can log in from 2+ clients at the same time with the M$ client	14:48
BCMM	cool, thanks	14:48
jacekowski	but that depends on server	14:48
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jacekowski	some will only send messages to higher priority client	14:48
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BCMM	jacekowski: do servers that do that offer free accounts?	14:48
jacekowski	it all depends on config	14:48
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BCMM	lardman: using unofficial MSN clients, i find that the server disconnects me if i login elsewhere	14:48
BCMM	jacekowski: and do you have a server you would recommend?	14:49
jacekowski	BCMM: i'm using my own server	14:49
lardman	BCMM: yes quite	14:49
jacekowski	BCMM: i don't trust other people	14:49
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BCMM	talking of battery life, is there currently any way to transport skype instant message over literally anything other than skype?	14:51
jacekowski	there were some attepnts	14:51
jacekowski	but failed	14:51
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BCMM	so how do these jabber transports work? you still register a proper MSN account, right?	14:53
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chem\|st	BCMM: yes	14:54
BCMM	well, thanks a lot of the advice	14:54
chem\|st	BCMM: and transports are available for most IM stuff	14:54
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chem\|st	BCMM: like ICQ and others	14:55
BCMM	chem\|st: do you have a jabber server you'd recommend?	14:55
chem\|st	BCMM: no I am oldschool jabber.org	14:55
chem\|st	BCMM: that has no transports or I do not know about ;)	14:55
BCMM	i don't really know much about jabber... different jabber servers largely peer with one another, right?	14:56
jacekowski	BCMM: yes	14:56
BCMM	any idea of MSN/windows live messenger has a test or echo service/	14:57
chem\|st	BCMM: http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/general-other-im-news/33739-connect-google-talk-aim-msn-yahoo.html	14:57
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chem\|st	guess you already got an gAccount	14:57
chem\|st	BCMM: no voip transport on most serverss	14:58
BCMM	is a "jabber id" username@server.tld?	14:59
chem\|st	yes	14:59
Macer	wow	14:59
Macer	freezing :)	14:59
chem\|st	Macer: exactly	14:59
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Macer	chem\|st: like -100 wind chill in chicago today. i should have called off from work	15:00
Macer	lol	15:00
chem\|st	BCMM: ok just read the article I posted to you myself... heavy work around... maybe there is something easier than that aailable	15:00
jacekowski	Corsac: not really heavy workaround	15:01
jacekowski	BCMM: yes	15:01
jacekowski	BCMM: it looks like an e-mail	15:01
chem\|st	Macer: and what was the actual temp. ?	15:01
jacekowski	BCMM: for examply my jid: jacekowski@jacekowski.org and my mail: jacekowski@jacekowski.org	15:01
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chem\|st	jacekowski: you meant me I guess	15:01
chem\|st	jacekowski: you setup a jabber to connect to another jabber to connect to your IM...	15:02
Corsac	jacekowski: ?	15:02
chem\|st	Corsac: type he was talking to me	15:02
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jacekowski	chem\|st: don't flatter yourself	15:03
chem\|st	jacekowski: ?	15:04
jacekowski	yeah, it was to you	15:05
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Shahab	hello	15:10
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Shahab	i cannot sign in to my yahoo acount	15:12
Shahab	what should i do	15:12
auenf	i cannot sign into my geocities account	15:12
javispedro	morning	15:12
Shahab	i give this error . not signed in	15:13
Shahab	pleas help me !	15:13
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Shahab	hm.?!	15:14
Venemo	Shahab: forgot your password?	15:15
Shahab	nono !	15:15
Shahab	i can sign in to my acount by pidgin	15:15
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Shahab	but	15:16
Venemo	[14:12] <Shahab> i cannot sign in to my yahoo acount -> so this was a lie	15:16
Shahab	in conversation and contact	15:16
javispedro	.oO(Probably he's asking on #maemo because he's talking about a Maemo application being unable to login)	15:16
javispedro	which could cause if Yahoo killed third party clients. again.	15:17
Venemo	well then there's a Maemo version of Pidgin, use that	15:17
javispedro	s/cause/happen	15:17
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chem\|st	Venemo: good one ;)	15:22
Venemo	chem\|st: :P	15:23
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chem\|st	be nice ppl... the sheep will thank you!	15:23
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OS6081	hello! Someone can tell me the output of "ls /usr/share/sharing/services" on his n900,pls ?	15:29
Venemo	OS6081: as root or as user?	15:30
Venemo	OS6081: as user, it's 'flickr.service.xml ovi.service.xml'	15:30
OS6081	tks!	15:31
OS6081	I have to understand why "share by email" is not working!	15:31
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ag0ny	I am looking for a possibility to use the N900 as microphone. I have a soundsystem connected to the line out and play music from the phone. Now I am looking for a software that lets me talk to the N900 and send my voice to the soundsystem. Is there a software for this?	15:35
ag0ny	At best with a voiceover function for the internal media player	15:36
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javispedro	ag0ny: pulseaudio itself does that	15:37
chem\|st	ag0ny: pulseaudio.org may not be your friend but is the handler	15:37
chem\|st	ag0ny: I tried to get networking working and remained trying...	15:38
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javispedro	chem\|st: there's some incompatibility with modern pulseaudio client libraries and the older maemo version	15:38
javispedro	chem\|st: there are some threads on tm	15:38
javispedro	o	15:38
javispedro	I've done it at least twice, so it is doable. I used the debian lenny libraries.	15:39
chem\|st	javispedro: not only that but the way nokia cut off its balls makes it quiet hard to handle	15:39
javispedro	tbh I do not think it is Nokia's fault.	15:40
javispedro	(well, save for keeping an outdated version...)	15:40
chem\|st	javispedro: it is run as system-wide daemon what is not recommended and actually never needed	15:40
javispedro	chem\|st: note that the pulseaudio author itself says "not recommended ... save for embedded systems"	15:41
chem\|st	javispedro: "if realy needed that way"	15:41
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javispedro	actual quote is here: http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/SystemWideInstance	15:42
javispedro	chem\|st: it says "it makes sense to use the system-wide mode in embedded systems where no real notion of a user exists" (which is exactly what Maemo is)	15:42
chem\|st	javispedro: we have "user"	15:42
javispedro	chem\|st: single user.	15:43
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chem\|st	so what?	15:43
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Venemo	and PA is run as "user", yes	15:43
chem\|st	Venemo: no it is run as "pulse"	15:43
Venemo	hm	15:43
Venemo	so there's a special account for PA?	15:43
Venemo	interesting	15:43
javispedro	chem\|st: no real notion of user.	15:43
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chem\|st	javispedro: how do you control the daemon? I never got a clue how to do that without braking somethin	15:44
javispedro	install pulseaudio-extra package and run pacmd	15:44
javispedro	(pulseaudio-extra iirc, maybe -utils or -modules-extra)	15:45
chem\|st	javispedro: as user and as root you get a there is no server running for your user	15:45
javispedro	ah yes, you need to load the console module	15:45
Necc	Venemo: check /etc/passwd	15:46
chem\|st	javispedro: but how do I load a module without being able to tell pulse?	15:46
Necc	there's a lot of different users with no shell for different processes	15:46
* MohammadAG wants a C++ IDE for the N900 :/		15:46
javispedro	chem\|st: edit default.pa and reboot	15:46
chem\|st	javispedro: ah ok sure	15:46
javispedro	chem\|st: iirc there's actually a comment in that file telling you how to do it (cause Nokia had to it ot debug I guess)	15:46
Venemo	Necc: you are right :) thx	15:47
chem\|st	;)	15:47
Venemo	MohammadAG: there's KhtEditor, but that needs a little bit of work	15:47
alterego	MohammadAG: still no joy	15:47
MohammadAG	alterego, run the dbus command I gave you	15:47
MohammadAG	then run the app	15:47
MohammadAG	fyi, I added a QTimer (not yet comitted since i'm away from the laptop), to it	15:48
MohammadAG	so it should only show if the proximity was held for some time	15:48
MohammadAG	(will make it customizable later)	15:49
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alterego	Yeah, that's working.	15:49
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MohammadAG	nano's cool with syntax highlighting	15:50
DocScrutinizer	a noob question: how to edit (cut, concatenate, audio-edit) videos taken on N900, prior to sharing them?	15:50
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: without also using a PC?	15:50
DocScrutinizer	yep	15:50
DocScrutinizer	of course	15:50
Venemo	DocScrutinizer: no idea :(	15:51
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javispedro	chem\|st: I just remembered that there's a command lime parameter to make pulseaudio drop to a cmd line after daemonizing. You might want to use that for a quick hack.	15:52
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javispedro	chem\|st: (by stopping pulse then starting it mimicking what the init.d script does)	15:52
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: there was talks about a video editor app (pitivi?), I'm not sure they went anywhere	15:55
javispedro	ok, this made me laugh.	15:57
javispedro	So I tell this guy "Maybe what you're saying sounds like nonsense to me because neither of us are native speakers", trying to be humble all while saying he's talking bullshit	15:58
javispedro	the guy's answer? "you should then use google 'transliterator'!!! [sic]	15:58
alterego	Weird ..	15:58
alterego	Can't get it to animate	15:58
Venemo	what is a 'transliterator'?	15:58
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javispedro	Venemo: I think he meant "translator", but got it wrong.	15:59
Venemo	hehe :D	15:59
* javispedro ponders leaving the niceties apart..		16:00
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DocScrutinizer	http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/AboutPulseAudio#Details priceless	16:01
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alterego	Interesting.	16:07
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, look at that: http://rudd-o.com/en/linux-and-free-software/how-pulseaudio-works/images/pulseaudio-diagram.png?isImage=1 makes it obvious why most apps today (remember: ALSA been THE audio standard on linux until recently) are way better off without PA	16:08
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MohammadAG	alterego, got a patch? :P	16:09
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: ALSA suxs!!	16:09
alterego	MohammadAG: working on it :P	16:09
DocScrutinizer	BS, PA sux!!	16:09
MohammadAG	sound sux, sets pc to mute	16:09
Venemo	none of them sux	16:09
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MohammadAG	seriously, let's grow up, but first...	16:10
MohammadAG	KDE SUX!!!1!	16:10
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DocScrutinizer	and actually it hasn't any offer that's better than pure ALSA, on their own site http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/AboutPulseAudio#Details, except "playback on a different machine"	16:10
javispedro	actually alsa also has rtp support	16:11
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javispedro	so it could be used for network audio	16:11
javispedro	but seriously, both ALSA and PA are awfully complex monsters.	16:11
DocScrutinizer	while introducing heeluva overhead with all those TCP and whatnot layers	16:11
* MohammadAG failed to start a gnome vs KDE war		16:11
javispedro	MohammadAG: try on #meego, more qt people there	16:12
Venemo	MohammadAG: KDE doesn't sux, it is just unusable	16:12
* MohammadAG opens a "I'm buying an iPhone thread" on tmo		16:12
* MohammadAG moves the " back one word		16:12
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Venemo	MohammadAG: there're already many threads like that	16:12
MohammadAG	javispedro, it's still sane in there	16:12
ag0ny	javispedro: Could please give further details as to how forwarding mic to line out can be done?	16:12
MohammadAG	well, partially	16:12
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javispedro	ag0ny: where do you want to forward it? You should have some experience with doing it previously or this is just going to be to long to explain	16:13
javispedro	NOOOOOOOOOOOoo	16:14
* javispedro accidentally closes the tab where I was writing a lengthy rebuttal troll post		16:14
MohammadAG	javispedro, ouch	16:14
* MohammadAG would just rewrite it		16:14
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MohammadAG	that's why i never close tabs, and end up with 20+ tabs at shutdown	16:15
javispedro	the new post is not going to be the same, not in the mood any longer =(	16:15
ag0ny	javispedro: I want to forward it to line out	16:15
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javispedro	ag0ny: use a cable. =).	16:16
javispedro	well, speaking seriously, is that a windows machine?	16:16
Macer	hm	16:17
javispedro	I have no idea how to do networked audio on windows	16:17
Macer	swapped over to nitdroid	16:17
X-Fade	Sure, what is your meego.com account?	16:18
ag0ny	javispedro: No, its nothing network...is only using the n900 as microphone. The hifi-system ist connected via the line out jack	16:18
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, mohammad7410, but are you on the right channel? :P	16:19
javispedro	ag0ny: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I totally misunderstood you.	16:20
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Yeah, I know.. :)	16:20
DocScrutinizer	MUHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAaaaa OMFG!!! >>The Device Chooser will discover other sound servers running on the LAN by using Zeroconf/Avahi technolgy. Therefore make sure to compile PulseAudio with Avahi support and load the Zeroconf module on all machines on the LAN.<<	16:20
javispedro	ag0ny: open a terminal, type "pacat -r \| pacat"	16:20
javispedro	and enjoy	16:20
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: let me guess: you hate both PA and Avahi?	16:21
DocScrutinizer	YEP!	16:21
MohammadAG	and gnome	16:21
BCMM	the network thing is the only useful feature of PA, as far as I can see	16:21
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MohammadAG	and gconf... wait, who doesn't hate that?	16:21
BCMM	and as far as i can see, it hardly every actually works	16:21
javispedro	MohammadAG: gconf rules!	16:21
alterego	MohammadAG: got something working but its' a bit shit.	16:21
DocScrutinizer	I simply ignore gnome, as far as possible. Alas it always is crossing my way in shape of g* shit	16:22
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MohammadAG	alterego, define shit :P	16:22
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: is there anything you like =)	16:22
MohammadAG	javispedro, seriously?	16:22
lcuk	javispedro, lol	16:22
DocScrutinizer	yeah! bash for example :-D	16:22
* MohammadAG waits for a nick change:		16:22
javispedro	heh	16:22
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alterego	MohammadAG: I tell you want, I'll give you the patch ;)	16:23
MohammadAG	there it is ^	16:23
* javispedro jiggles		16:23
alterego	MohammadAG: I think I have a solution though, but I'll have to work on that myself in a bit.	16:23
alterego	Need to have a shower.	16:23
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MohammadAG	got a prebuilt binary?	16:24
MohammadAG	oh, k	16:24
javispedro	ag0ny: you might need to install pulseaudio-utils, use "rootsh apt-get install pulseaudio-utils" (no need to enable any repository)	16:24
MohammadAG	rootsh has been deprectated	16:25
javispedro	ah.	16:25
javispedro	so what's it these days?	16:25
alterego	MohammadAG: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/mohammediabar/	16:25
MohammadAG	root for a shell	16:25
* MohammadAG grumbles		16:25
alterego	:D	16:25
alterego	I'm sorry, I really can't help it ...	16:25
MohammadAG	is that associated with me till I die?	16:26
alterego	;)	16:26
* javispedro uses "rootify", which enables "sudo -s"		16:26
* alterego uses ssh root@localhost		16:26
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* javispedro hits alterego for wasteful use of encryption		16:26
alterego	I've never used rootsh or whatever ..	16:26
alterego	Would you prefer I use telnet? :P	16:26
MohammadAG	alterego, no binary?	16:26
alterego	MohammadAG: look now	16:27
MohammadAG	qmake; make is slow on the N900 :P	16:27
alterego	(refresh	16:27
alterego	Unfortunately can't seem to use QPropertyAnimation, so I had to create my own animation from QTimeLine	16:27
alterego	And to force it to update I need to hide and show.	16:28
alterego	I support update might work actually.	16:28
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alterego	Hrm, no, that doesn'#t work ;)	16:29
MohammadAG	side to side would've been nice :P	16:29
alterego	I do however, have an idea, but, like I said I need a shower then I'll try and mock something up ;)	16:29
alterego	Also, the buttons are too big.	16:29
alterego	It makes the icons look crap :P	16:29
MohammadAG	alterego, you seem to like small buttons more :P	16:30
* alterego has just had an idea		16:31
alterego	You know how android has that swipe down thing for notifications?	16:32
alterego	Why don't we have something like that for this.	16:32
javispedro	swipe down from the top on the screen in n900 works badly	16:33
alterego	Do you mind if I steal your idea and work on a mediaplayer control?	16:33
javispedro	because of the sensitiviness issues in corners	16:33
alterego	javispedro: sure	16:33
alterego	Worth a try though	16:33
javispedro	I tried already, don't remember why though...	16:33
alterego	We could also hook into power button, so as the power menu comes down our widget goes up :)	16:34
javispedro	I think systemui eats the power button events..	16:34
javispedro	I wanted to use the powerbutton for preenv.	16:34
alterego	Sure but they're emitted over dbus	16:34
javispedro	not sure.	16:35
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alterego	yeah button press is on the system bus for the power button	16:35
javispedro	I think we already had this conversation..	16:36
alterego	anyway, I gotta jump in the shower	16:36
javispedro	I remember explaining that for some reason there is a d-bus event 2 sec-s after a button press	16:36
alterego	bbiafm	16:36
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* lardman thinks it would be nice to have a contacts app that handles relationships too		16:41
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ag0ny	javispedro: I got pulseaudio-utils installed now	16:49
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javispedro	ag0ny: type "pacat -r \| pacat" and press intro	16:54
javispedro	then shout to the n900	16:54
javispedro	(on terminal, of course)	16:54
ag0ny	Thats basically working, but its not overlay to the mediaplayer?	16:57
ag0ny	overlaying	16:57
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javispedro	what do you mean? it mutes the media player?	16:57
jacekowski	javispedro: pacat?	16:57
ag0ny	no, it does not	16:57
ag0ny	javispedro: I don't hear my voice, only the title played by the media player	16:58
javispedro	jacekowski: pacat. what?	16:58
javispedro	ag0ny: yeah, you're right. hmpf.	16:59
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* javispedro curses		17:00
javispedro	you'll need to modify the policy...	17:00
javispedro	or use another media player, like mplayer	17:00
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ag0ny	How would I modify the policy?	17:01
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javispedro	using mplayer would be easier	17:04
javispedro	and mplayer is a cmd line application, so you get the idea =)	17:04
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GAN900	Jaffa, lot of front page content looks nice.	17:08
Jaffa	GAN900: Long week! Thanks for your help, as ever.	17:08
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scoobertron	The nokia RSS widget restricts post titles to 2 lines. Does anyone know if this can be changed? (I am using it for twitter and it is cutting off the end of tweets).	17:30
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andre__	scoobert1on, don't think so. it's quite dead software	17:37
Venemo	scoobert1on: I've always wanted to make an RSS widget	17:37
lardman	Sounds like we've all realised too late in the day that we should have replaced all the built-in apps	17:38
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lardman	shame Nokia didn't just come out and say that nothing would get fixed so we would have got on with it before the platform was (nearly) EOL	17:38
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SpeedEvil	yep.	17:39
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Venemo	lol lardman	17:39
lardman	Hmm, that came out sounding more bitter than I intended, I'm not, I just think it's a shame we're getting cracking now when we could have done it earlier	17:39
SpeedEvil	lardman: I completely agree unfortunately.	17:40
SpeedEvil	lardman: It's the curse of many open projects.	17:40
lardman	I'm not bothered, but I always assumed that these easy bugs and even cool features would get fixed so it wasn't worth wasting my time doing something that would soon be replaced	17:40
lardman	s/replaced/sorted out	17:41
SpeedEvil	lardman: For example - SHR - the current openmoko community project - is in the state that if it was like this 2 years ago - and there is no real fundamental reason it couldn't have been if OM corporate had had a big public list of stuff they're not doing.	17:41
alterego	Crazy, that usb ethernet adapter doesn't need more power?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IyeSNGCWTA	17:41
* GAN900 isn't sure he likes being able to smell again.		17:42
BCMM	this is why you need to clean even when you have a cold?	17:42
javispedro	SpeedEvil: I wouldn't put my finger on wheter having such a list would have changed anything here	17:42
lcuk	GAN900, yeah we have been able to smell you for a while now	17:42
lcuk	perhaps you should shower more often :P	17:42
* lardman unplugs his smello-usb add-on		17:43
SpeedEvil	javispedro: I dunno.	17:43
GAN900	lcuk, yes, but my beard's still better than yours. :P	17:43
lcuk	GAN900, sure	17:43
scoobert1on	ok, well failing that, can I get curl or wget anywhere. I have both extra-testing and devel enabled but can't seem to find it anywhere.	17:44
lcuk	but both our moustaches pale compared to: http://liqbase.net/meego.movember.motivator.20101117_073.jpg	17:44
lardman	SpeedEvil: Open source needs some driving force to do stuff that people don't like doing - like docs and prettifying	17:44
SpeedEvil	lardman: I mean open source in the sense of there is source to typical commercial applications, and vendors would often accept patches.	17:45
SpeedEvil	Nothing to do with the licence in this case.	17:45
lardman	sure	17:45
lardman	fixing small things	17:46
GAN900	lcuk, well, he doesn't have a beard.	17:46
SpeedEvil	Rearchitecting is a different question, and requires much more interaction with the community admittedly.	17:46
lcuk	GAN900, he does not need a beard!	17:47
lcuk	that 'tash makes up for it	17:47
BCMM	lardman: plenty of people like prettifying software, don't they?	17:47
lardman	really?	17:47
* SpeedEvil ponders.		17:47
lardman	once it works that's it ;)	17:47
BCMM	do you mean as in cleaning up code, or as in beautifying interfaces?	17:48
SpeedEvil	I could almost do that tash in a couple more weeks with some wax.	17:48
lcuk	there is something that should be a level above open source	17:48
lardman	BCMM: Making pretty interfaces	17:48
lcuk	its not easy getting into a codebase of even fully open source	17:48
lcuk	it should be accessible	17:48
lcuk	:)	17:48
lardman	lcuk: but it's easier than having to write the entire app from scratch again	17:48
SpeedEvil	lardman: sometimes	17:49
lcuk	of course lardman	17:49
lcuk	but in maemo world	17:49
lardman	and that's the alternative I mean	17:49
lcuk	we had a perfectly valid supreme (according to some) media player already	17:49
lcuk	that was open source	17:49
lcuk	s/was/is/	17:49
infobot	lcuk meant: that is open source	17:49
lcuk	canola	17:49
lardman	too slow though	17:49
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lcuk	on n900?	17:50
GAN900	Yes, but it's dead and the libs are bitrotting.	17:50
lcuk	GAN900, gsoc2010 had people working on it	17:50
lardman	it was also closed originally iirc	17:50
lcuk	for m5	17:50
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lardman	and required some large deps	17:50
lcuk	over this summer just gone	17:50
javispedro	and it does not integrate well with fremantle.	17:50
lcuk	it should have come out by now afaik	17:50
lcuk	of course	17:50
lcuk	but that is just one example	17:50
BCMM	lardman: where it is possible to prettify apps without having to understand their internals, plenty of people who maybe don't have the skills to hack the core can enjoy improving the UI	17:50
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lardman	BCMM: I'm simply saying that prettifying is a low priority generally, if it happens at all	17:51
* javispedro admits that he would like the source of the nokia fremantle mediaplayer for laziness+afraid_of_changes reasons		17:51
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BCMM	lardman: for hackers, yeah	17:51
javispedro	it's easier to fix the one bug that would make me dislike the current mediaplayer than change it entirely.	17:52
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lcuk	javispedro, it does integrate very very well :)	17:52
lardman	same here, laziness, though MohammadAG has produced a nice replacement UI and I'm having a look at the mafw backend which should be pretty simple	17:52
BCMM	lardman: i seem to recall much debate over how to put artists that can't code in touch with coders who make ugly stuff	17:52
lardman	BCMM: But the designers need to learn to code as I don't want to have to interpret their instructions and prettify (for example) rather than writing new cool features	17:53
lardman	this changes if it's part of your job, rather than your hobby	17:53
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javispedro	lardman: but using Mohamediaplayer is a change already (it's Qt for a start). Media player is simple enough that this might not matter, but for the rest...	17:54
lardman	javispedro: I quite agree	17:54
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lardman	and equally it's a bit of a waste of time having to write it when a few patches would be enough	17:55
javispedro	I know how this movie ends already :)	17:55
Venemo	javispedro: Mohammediaplayer :D:D	17:55
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BCMM	lardman: well, maybe this is one advantage of stuff like Qt that slightly separates the UI design from the coding	17:57
yacc_	Any way to make icd2 reload it's configuration?	17:58
javispedro	yacc_: IAPs are reloaded every often	17:58
yacc_	javispedro, not often enough I fear in my case, I want to rename "Dummy connection" into "USB connection" just before making icd2 connect it.	17:59
javispedro	are you sure you can do that? the name comes from the plugin	17:59
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lardman	that's another annoyance, why can't the disconnect dialog display the current connection when it displays so you can just click disconnect without needing to wait for the scan to be completed just in case you want to change connection?	18:00
lardman	s/displays/first displays	18:00
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yacc_	javispedro, you can do that, but I want to rename it only inside ifup usb0	18:01
javispedro	yacc_: I mean that the network type plugin is the one telling the UI the name of the found networks, so maybe it has the name hardcoded.	18:01
yacc_	javispedro, no it's not.	18:01
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javispedro	either way, you don't want to reload icd2 config but the plugin config, which is a different story..	18:02
yacc_	gconftool-2 -s -t string /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/DUMMY/name "Dummy network" <= you can enter any string and it's shown.	18:02
javispedro	fortunately the plugin (dummy?) should be open	18:02
yacc_	Actually libicd-network-null	18:02
javispedro	dummy is made by a nokia employee btw	18:02
javispedro	there was also libicd-network-usb, which you might be interetsted in	18:03
javispedro	as it is specific to usb0	18:03
javispedro	and will actually set up / tear down usb0 for yo	18:03
yacc_	javispedro, well, the libicd-network-usb did not work out that well for me, ...	18:03
javispedro	*you	18:03
javispedro	well, no idea why it did not work...	18:05
javispedro	ah	18:06
javispedro	note that icd2 might be caching network results for 30 seconds	18:06
javispedro	iirc.	18:06
javispedro	I do not think you can prevent that without editing the plugin	18:06
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luke-jr	o.o I just herd meego is dead!	18:09
Venemo	luke-jr: wtf?	18:09
javispedro	luke-jr: on talk.maemo.org?	18:09
lardman	heard?	18:09
MohammadAG	car accident	18:09
MohammadAG	he couldn't make it	18:10
javispedro	I just read there that Nokia is going to use Windows 7!	18:10
lardman	or like Buffalo?	18:10
javispedro	oh wait, they already do.	18:10
luke-jr	#mer	18:10
Venemo	wut?	18:10
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luke-jr	TomaszD sed so	18:10
wallblom	please link to this information	18:10
* javispedro jiggles		18:11
wallblom	<3	18:11
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luke-jr	dead men/sw don't speak	18:12
lardman	what's happened to the #mer irc logs?	18:12
luke-jr	http://tinyurl.com/ngroq8 ?	18:12
GAN900	lardman, they're filled with confidential information.	18:12
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lardman	GAN900: ?	18:13
lardman	luke-jr: those stop around May this year	18:13
luke-jr	Wat about teh pizza?	18:13
lardman	GAN900: like moving to Windows you mean ;)	18:13
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GAN900	lardman, like that.	18:14
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TomaszD	it is indeed dead luke-jr	18:14
TomaszD	I've heard it from a man on the street	18:14
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* javispedro prepares the rumor machine		18:15
luke-jr	a man, or /the/ man⁇	18:15
lardman	and in that case s/street/dark alley	18:15
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yacc_	javispedro, works, seems like deleting the DUMMY connection and just adding the two entries makes more sense and works better.	18:17
lardman	TomaszD: go on, where did you hear it?	18:17
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TomaszD	on the corner	18:18
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TomaszD	I was walking from work	18:18
TomaszD	and he told me	18:18
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lardman	ok :)	18:18
yacc_	Wonder if one might be able to even to have a specific USBnet icon in the status bar.	18:18
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* lardman stops worrying		18:18
javispedro	yacc_: you could on Diablo, never tried if it still works in Fremantle.	18:19
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GAN900	TomaszD, damn hipster Nokians.	18:19
javispedro	yacc_: under network_types in gconf you will find "icon" entry	18:19
yacc_	javispedro, well for the moment I'll live without it :)	18:19
yacc_	javispedro, yeah I noticed.	18:19
javispedro	ok :)	18:19
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yacc_	javispedro, the question is where do these strings point to?	18:19
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javispedro	yacc_: standard icon name convention	18:20
yacc_	Anyway, now I just need to add some really sick addons like starting x11vnc automatically, dimming the display and I'm rather happy.	18:20
javispedro	heh	18:20
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* javispedro watches elliot carver appropiately say "there's no news like bad news"		18:21
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yacc_	Another thing I've noticed, my n900 can be rather slow in picking up GSM/UMTS connections (not the data connection, the complete connection is gone and does not pickup for 10-15 minutes, till I manually switch between Dual/2G/3G in which case it registers with the network rather fast)	18:21
yacc_	Any idea?	18:21
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Venemo	yacc_: I experience it too, espeacially in poorly covered areas	18:29
Venemo	yacc_: there are a few metro stations where there should be coverage, but the N900 finds it quite slowly	18:30
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: also a PA "hater"? then you'll adore this: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/pulse.html - esp some of the lengthy posts way down	18:36
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: let's say I dislike it, but not hate.	18:36
yacc_	Venemo, well, inside the city limits of Vienna, Austria, actually crossing most of the city during that 15 minutes.	18:36
DocScrutinizer	btw Lennart admits PA is adding latency, compared to pure ALSA (a rather obvious fact)	18:37
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Venemo	yacc_: mine is not so troublesome	18:37
DocScrutinizer	and he recommends JACK et al stay away from PA	18:37
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: obviously. the question is wheter it adds a measurable amount of latency. because dmix also adds latency.	18:37
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yacc_	javispedro, the only issue being that A1 has no EGPRS inside big cities, OTOH, these stupid jerks have already enabled LTE, ...	18:37
javispedro	yacc_: ETAB ;)	18:38
pupnik	'polyp audio' is hilarious	18:38
* MohammadAG stabs QtDbus		18:38
yacc_	javispedro, ETAB?	18:38
MohammadAG	Tab error	18:38
javispedro	yacc_: you wanted to say Venemo, don't you? :)	18:38
yacc_	javispedro, right ;)	18:38
Venemo	yacc_: ouch	18:39
javispedro	I liked PulseAudio more back when it was Polypaudio. It was simpler.	18:39
Venemo	yacc_: EDGE is quite stable in here	18:39
javispedro	I like the core concept. I think a lot of stuff that ALSA tries to do should be done by a userspace daemon	18:40
javispedro	Pulseaudio is no longer a userspace daemon though, and is more like a multiuse swiss knife	18:40
yacc_	Venemo, yeah, OTOH, since I've got an external charger for my second BL-5J, I can live quite well UMTS/HSDPA, ...	18:40
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yacc_	OTOH, I've got the impression that the n900 can only very roughly estimate the charge of the battery.	18:41
Venemo	yacc_: UMTS, HSPA is also working well when there's coverage. I mostly use dual mode	18:41
yacc_	Venemo, well, EDGE would be my favorite, best compromise between battery and bandwidth.	18:42
yacc_	UMTS/HSDPA drains the battery under 3 hours in constant use, ...	18:42
Venemo	yacc_: yeah. the 2nd best is HSDPA	18:42
Venemo	yacc_: yes, it does drain the battery, but EDGE does that too sometimes	18:43
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: and a lot of stuff that PA does should be done in kernel space	18:43
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javispedro	PA does three things (aiui): abstraction, policy, and mixing.	18:45
javispedro	these should be separate.	18:45
javispedro	I might want abstraction but not mixing (for ex. if I have a hwmix card)	18:45
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: ack	18:47
javispedro	not sure I would want to move any of them to the kernel though.	18:47
javispedro	abstraction would be the first candidate IMHO.	18:47
javispedro	the ALSA API sucks.	18:47
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: even if you don't, mixing is probably better done in a hw related kernel domain	18:48
javispedro	I would kill it will with fire and exporting something more simpler and raw to user space.	18:48
javispedro	*export	18:48
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: not sure.	18:48
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javispedro	even Windows does it in user space these days	18:48
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* DocScrutinizer always thought windows does everything in userspace		18:49
javispedro	pre-vista windows did mixing in kks	18:49
javispedro	s/kks/kernel space	18:49
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DocScrutinizer	windoes has a kernel? (j/k)	18:50
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jacekowski	windows has kernel	18:50
jacekowski	and lot of stuff is done in kernel space	18:50
DocScrutinizer	nah, impooooosible	18:50
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DocScrutinizer	must be a new thing, like post-ME	18:51
javispedro	indeed. hehe.	18:51
jacekowski	it's more like post dos	18:51
jacekowski	that first dos gui already had kernel	18:52
jacekowski	how was it called	18:52
jacekowski	windows 1.0	18:52
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* javispedro notes that if you're non-jokingly asserting that w1.0 had a kernel, the by definition DOS also had one.		18:52
jacekowski	but first real kernel was in win95	18:52
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, there's been a process called "kernl16" or sth, child of GUI, which in turn is child of DOS :-P	18:53
* javispedro notes the same applies to win9x		18:53
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DocScrutinizer	don't mess with me and call an "OS" that's doing cooperative multitasking without any dispatcher a kernel based OS	18:54
* javispedro would		18:55
javispedro	the FreeDOS people do, for ex.	18:55
jacekowski	well, win9x had proper kernel	18:55
yacc_	DocScrutinizer: Windows has no kernel, as the last Windows that I used myself was Windows 95, and that did not have a kernel, ...	18:55
DocScrutinizer	WTF how did we get here X-D	18:55
javispedro	it's a fun topic for CS guys.	18:55
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jacekowski	yacc_: it did	18:55
javispedro	=)	18:55
jacekowski	yacc_: it's called microkernel	18:56
* javispedro hits jacekowski with a spoon		18:56
DocScrutinizer	rotfl	18:56
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GAN900	Ha	18:56
DocScrutinizer	now THAT'S trolling	18:56
DocScrutinizer	:-D	18:56
jacekowski	throw it away it may be seed of a shovel	18:56
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yacc_	jacekowski, well, DOS was not a microkernel, it did filesystem more or less, and a microkernel proper does messaging and potentially memory management, with the filesystem being normally an "userspace" demon, ...	18:57
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jacekowski	yacc_: well windows 9x did exactly that	18:57
jacekowski	and pretty much only that	18:57
jacekowski	memory mamangment	18:57
jacekowski	and schedluing	18:57
jacekowski	scheduling*	18:58
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DocScrutinizer	WIN1.0 did NO memory management	18:58
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DocScrutinizer	that's what BSOD was for :-P	18:58
jacekowski	emm	18:58
jacekowski	9x	18:58
jacekowski	not 1.0	18:58
keesj	winnuke WTF	18:58
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javispedro	9x memory management? pfft.	19:03
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: >>Posted by Paul Davis at Tue Apr 8 22:36:03 2008 >>Posted by Lennart at Tue Apr 8 23:01:23 2008	19:08
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: hey, I too sometimes smash F5 waiting for replies to my trolling	19:09
Maka	Warning: ur device has rebooted unexpectedly. Custom Kernel settings have not been loaded	19:09
Maka	why wud this have happened?..	19:10
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: eh? :-D	19:10
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: thought you were remarking the swift response on Lennart's part?	19:10
javispedro	btw I love the recent quoted bug on tmo: "Chess is too hard for casual players". Resolution: WONTFIX: ""Reporter should	19:11
javispedro	learn how to play chess better if he's not able to win the easy level."	19:11
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DocScrutinizer	nah, just giving searchstring pointers to the relevant posts regarding why PA sucks e.g for twinkle, why it's been flawed since beginning and still is	19:11
GAN900	"easy" is brutal.	19:11
GAN900	That bug cracked me up when it was closed.	19:11
javispedro	haha	19:12
DocScrutinizer	Maka: bcos U doing OC?	19:12
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javispedro	on the Palm chess game I used to play I remember there was a difficulty setting where the AI would be fed garbage =)	19:12
Maka	nope..	19:12
GAN900	OC makz thinks supr fast	19:12
Maka	OC was done a long back but i reverted back to the stock settings..	19:13
GAN900	Maka, because something crashed and caused a reboot.	19:13
GAN900	Kernel-power sees the reboot and doesn't load custom settings in case they were the cause.	19:13
Maka	And my device is not as fast as i see in videos of n900..	19:13
Maka	i shud learn a lot more to keep it fast..	19:13
Maka	oh ok thank you Doc and GAN900 :)	19:14
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DocScrutinizer	Maka: use htop and powertop to find out about things slowing down your CPU, or eating up your battery	19:15
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: ah, read that stuff.	19:15
DocScrutinizer	Maka: avoiding apps that do will keep your device fast	19:15
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Maka	Am using Htop but am not damn sure about things it show..	19:16
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: that's why I suggest ALSA should be a simpler thing. different users different needs, and ALSA shouldn't try to catter them all. let user space daemons decide	19:16
Maka	Is there any guide to Htop and powertop?	19:16
javispedro	s/catter/cater (...)	19:16
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DocScrutinizer	Maka: it should show <200 processes and a cpu load <10% usually	19:16
jacekowski	Maka: emm, guide?	19:16
Maka	like wiki pages?	19:16
jacekowski	Maka: emmm	19:16
jacekowski	Maka: it shows you cpu and memory usage	19:16
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: don't shout at him, it's been me who sugested to use those system tools	19:17
Maka	LOL :)	19:17
Maka	guys,u both are my Gurus now :)	19:17
jacekowski	I'M NOT SHOUTING	19:17
DocScrutinizer	Maka: moment please	19:18
Maka	Ya okay lad :)	19:18
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jacekowski	http://linux.die.net/man/5/proc	19:19
jacekowski	here	19:19
jacekowski	all abbreviations are explained	19:19
jacekowski	and other stuff	19:19
DocScrutinizer	Maka: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management#Powertop http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption	19:19
Maka	thanks a lot Jacekowski :)	19:19
Maka	Thanks a lot DOc :)	19:19
Maka	and here is my main prob..	19:20
Maka	even now i face it..	19:20
jacekowski	you can't read?	19:20
slonopotamus	"lad" smth like "pal" but more femalish?	19:20
Maka	some of the icons suddenly disappear from my desktops..	19:20
Maka	why is it?	19:20
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: it's unfortunate also that OSSv4 is mostly dying (no hw support)	19:21
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Maka	@slopotamus:sounds so??	19:21
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GAN900	slonopotamus, more Irish.	19:22
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DocScrutinizer	Maka: vanishing desktop icons (widgets?) are probably caused by one of them aborting on startup	19:22
GAN900	http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lad	19:22
DocScrutinizer	~dict lad	19:22
infobot	Dictionary 'lad' (1 of 5): \Lad\ (l[a^]d), n. [OE. ladde, of Celtic origin; cf. W. llawd, Ir. lath. [root]123. Cf. {Lass}.] 1. A boy; a youth; a stripling. "Cupid is a knavish lad." --Shak. [1913 Webster] There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves and two small fishes. --John vi. 9. [1913 Webster] 2. A companion; a comrade; a mate. [1913 Webster] {Lad's love}. (Bot.) See {Boy's love}, under {Boy}. [1913 Webster].	19:23
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NooBmonk3y	~dict scrutinizer	19:23
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infobot	Dictionary 'scrutinizer' (2): \Scru"ti*ni`zer\, n. One who scrutinizes. [1913 Webster] ;; a careful examiner; someone who inspects with great care .	19:23
NooBmonk3y	just checking :P	19:23
NooBmonk3y	evening alls :)	19:23
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: maybe the mass deployment of PA actually does something good regarding establishing one standard for unix audio interfaces. Alas I have a hard time believing in my own words here	19:26
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: see the extremely long post on that blog, by some zachary(?) dude	19:27
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: it's happening already, see embedded space.	19:27
DocScrutinizer	yeah	19:27
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: it will	19:27
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i mean, PA will spread, everybody will start using it	19:27
javispedro	the question is why does lennart say that people should not use PA api	19:27
javispedro	directly.	19:27
jacekowski	and then some moron will come up with idea that PA i bad	19:27
jacekowski	and it should be done in some other way	19:27
DocScrutinizer	and probably he's right on it :-P	19:28
jacekowski	nothing new	19:28
jacekowski	oss -> alsa -> PA	19:28
DocScrutinizer	yeah	19:28
NooBmonk3y	hmmm meego has decided it is not touch screen anymore :P lol	19:29
DocScrutinizer	but while ALSA targeted some evident flaws of OSS, PA simply is done because "ALSA sucks"	19:29
DocScrutinizer	not really doing anything any better than ALSA, not even docs	19:30
jacekowski	well, only real flaw in alsa is lack of properly done mixin	19:30
jacekowski	g	19:30
javispedro	jacekowski: and horribly complex userspace API.	19:30
javispedro	seriously, 4 layers of abstraction for setting a simple mixer?	19:30
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jacekowski	almost like PA	19:30
DocScrutinizer	lol, exactly	19:30
javispedro	jacekowski: PA actually hides them from you	19:30
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mavhc	open source: because you can never have too much abstraction	19:30
DocScrutinizer	\o/	19:30
javispedro	jacekowski: and does useful things for them, like allowing you to set "Digital Out" profile and the like	19:31
javispedro	s/for them/with them	19:31
DocScrutinizer	haha	19:31
DocScrutinizer	yeah, scroll back to see how easy that is, for a fsckng silly simple mixing of mic with mediaplayer output :-P	19:32
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: please note that is what Nokia wanted.	19:32
javispedro	so, in a sense, PulseAudio allowed them to do weird things like that. shudder	19:33
DocScrutinizer	which should make us boggle	19:33
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javispedro	that's why I was saying the policy part should be separate...	19:33
DocScrutinizer	:-D	19:33
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RST38h	ok, moo aall	19:34
* RST38h is kinda back		19:34
javispedro	killall audiopolicyd	19:34
javispedro	moo RST38h	19:34
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer: why not just bare alsa?	19:34
* DocScrutinizer is kinda gone		19:34
DocScrutinizer	slonopotamus: I'm all for that	19:34
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DocScrutinizer	PA is mere useless, esp for embedded	19:35
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slonopotamus	i just don't see what value it adds	19:35
DocScrutinizer	none	19:35
jacekowski	slonopotamus: no mixing	19:35
jacekowski	that's only reason why bare alsa would have problems	19:36
javispedro	remember my previous argument: three parts: policy, mixing, and abstraction.	19:36
javispedro	that's what pulseaudio "gives".	19:36
javispedro	or tries to give...	19:36
DocScrutinizer	WTF? dmix worked fine for me ever since I did a proper config for it	19:36
RST38h	slono: It lets another open source developer to design his own ultimate audio framework	19:36
slonopotamus	jacekowski: mixing of what?	19:36
jacekowski	microphone	19:36
RST38h	javis: I told you before, multiple open()s of /dev/dsp will give you just that	19:36
jacekowski	dmix can only do output	19:36
RST38h	javis: And yes, theoretically you can make them sockets and mix in user space	19:37
jacekowski	and dsnoop is fubar	19:37
javispedro	RST38h: that's "mixing" part, and it wouldn't on a n900 for ex.	19:37
javispedro	(so, still other two parts to go)	19:37
RST38h	javis: Why?	19:37
javispedro	RST38h: no hw mix	19:37
RST38h	And what other two parts?	19:37
javispedro	policy & abstraction	19:37
RST38h	javis: Oh,you can do sw mix with dev/dsp	19:37
javispedro	in kernel	19:37
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: proof it! what's wrong with dsnoop?	19:37
jacekowski	RST38h: where	19:37
slonopotamus	jacekowski: i have skype working on gentoo desktop with only alsa (no PA, no ESD). what i am doing wrong?	19:37
RST38h	javis: and policy too	19:37
jacekowski	javispedro: you can't	19:37
javispedro	jacekowski: ossv4	19:37
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i never managed to get it working	19:37
jacekowski	javispedro: well, ossv4 breaks kernel policy of not using floats in kernel	19:38
RST38h	javis: As I said, make /dev/dsp* nodes sockets. Let a userspace program handle data from them, mix it, stream to the main /dev/dsp (let us say one without a number)	19:38
javispedro	jacekowski: I agree.	19:38
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DocScrutinizer	it worked on my desktop for, like, 4 years	19:38
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DocScrutinizer	without any problem	19:38
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RST38h	javis: Let the same userspace agent do policies	19:38
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javispedro	RST38h: and you get pulseaudio, but done right =)	19:39
javispedro	which is exactly what I want, a simpler thing.	19:39
RST38h	javis: Well, isn't this what we all want?	19:39
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javispedro	not ALSA!	19:39
* slonopotamus wonders why n900 has 1.5x more processes running than his desktop		19:39
RST38h	javis: And if you do get hw mixing, you replace those extra dev/dsp*s with hw nodes	19:39
RST38h	javis: for as many hw channels as supported	19:39
DocScrutinizer	WHAT??? audio processing using floats?	19:40
RST38h	Yes, Doc.	19:40
DocScrutinizer	what a friggin idiot did that ?	19:40
RST38h	There are smart people like that	19:40
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RST38h	And there are people using floats in video decoding too	19:40
RST38h	And audio decoding. They are Ogg people.	19:40
RST38h	BTW, I suspect that mixing audio in the kernel is no longer that much of a problem	19:41
RST38h	Given the throughput needed and the current CPUs performance	19:42
javispedro	all that I want is a simpler daemon, with a public simplePA-like or OSS-like API. With the three tasks PA does now clearly separated.	19:42
RST38h	Just say it: you hate PA and do not want PA	19:42
javispedro	and get ALSA as out of the picture as possible. Linux-only thing, complex beast.	19:42
RST38h	Same for ALSA	19:42
RST38h	And anything else designed by a megalomaniac	19:42
slonopotamus	what the hell are you talking about?	19:43
slonopotamus	skype does work with bare alsa. what else do you need from audio?	19:43
slonopotamus	and i bet many other softphones do too.	19:43
* javispedro runs out of keyboard batteries =)		19:43
pupnik	nokia wanted policies to manage different app behavior for audio	19:43
pupnik	you can look at the PA config to see how much is going on	19:43
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RST38h	you can do policies without PA	19:44
pupnik	and get it out the door on time?	19:44
RST38h	Yes	19:44
pupnik	k	19:44
RST38h	Want me to tell you how this can be done, with /dev/dsp API, in 1-2 days?	19:44
pupnik	i miss /dev/dsp	19:44
RST38h	1. Implement ioctl() that passes policy ID (a enum) to the driver (or userspace agent)	19:45
DocScrutinizer	do a ps, grep for ped X-P	19:45
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RST38h	2. Make the agent use these IDs when mixing	19:45
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RST38h	[NOTE: Never ever refuse or block open() on the daudio device, if you need to mute a client, simply ignore its data)	19:46
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pupnik	that sounds totally right	19:46
RST38h	Until ioctl() with policy ID passed, assume lowest priority	19:46
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pupnik	i respect the audio opinions of emu devs a lot	19:47
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: sounds like one of my statements of 3 years ago :-D	19:47
RST38h	Again, with only one hw audio channel, make /dev/dsp actual device node, make /dev/dsp* sockets to the userpsace mixer	19:47
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pupnik	yes!	19:47
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RST38h	With /dev/dsp being permanently open by the mixer	19:48
pupnik	note to world: meego does not have to copy ubuntu	19:48
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pupnik	i love it RST38h :) :)	19:48
RST38h	it has to copy redhat instead? :)	19:48
pupnik	RST38h: now what about managing different audio outputs? BT / Headphone / Speaker	19:48
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javispedro	that's one of the three PA parts: abstraction	19:50
javispedro	IMHO that's the one that should be moved to the kernel, if any.	19:50
RST38h	pupnik: main /dev/dsp API	19:51
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RST38h	pupnik: actually, it has been done already with /dev/mixer	19:51
RST38h	Just keep that API	19:51
RST38h	If these are separate outputs (and not just a mux from the same output), keep them as separate /dev/dsps	19:52
RST38h	In this case, userspace agent handles switching	19:52
pupnik	by renaming nodes?	19:52
RST38h	Probably using the same /dev/mixer API	19:52
pupnik	oh ok	19:52
RST38h	Absolutely no need to invent newcrap	19:52
RST38h	There is already enough audio-related crap invented in Linux to burn its authors in their own printouts, a few times	19:53
javispedro	the only issue I can see is that seemingly ALSA makes kernel drivers "easier". But kill the damn user space API and make it a stupid oss-like device.	19:53
RST38h	ALSA makes nothing easier	19:54
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RST38h	ALSA is made by another bunch of people who thought they could address EVERY possible need, and do it "easier" than OSS	19:54
RST38h	(with predictable results)	19:54
RST38h	ALSA is not event fully implemented anywhere outside x86 (and probably SoundBlaster :))	19:55
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RST38h	BTW http://www.oreilly.de/catalog/multilinux/excerpt/ch14-07.htm	19:56
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RST38h	Perfectly sensible API, no idea why all these people went off and built their own sand castles	19:57
chx	ALSA makes me think of the quote from 9 "we had such promise"	19:58
chx	I remember when ALSA started	19:58
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GAN900	How is it *nix audio always sucks so much.	19:59
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javispedro	now move this discussion to #meego and watch an entirely different outcome =)	19:59
* MohammadAG gets popcorn		20:00
RST38h	javispedro: You will be told to use Qt for audio	20:02
RST38h	And not worry about anything else	20:02
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MohammadAG	RST38h, let's try that!	20:03
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pupnik	it's like this was made by web-developers	20:05
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thomasvs	I tried upgrading my n900 to pr1.3; ran into various issues, and used apt-get to resolve them.	20:05
thomasvs	It has now updated a whole slew of packages, but about still mentions the version of pr 1.2, not of 1.3	20:06
pupnik	i believe that's just an oversight	20:06
thomasvs	my app manager doesn't list maemo5 as an update anymore. Is there a specific pkg that should be installed that I can check for to say 'this is 1.3' ?	20:06
thomasvs	the sources.list.d still only mentions 1.2 too, btw	20:06
thomasvs	the kernel was built Aug 6, which would put it after PR1.2	20:07
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thomasvs	pupnik: you mean they forgot to update the about box ?	20:09
pupnik	thomasvs: i think so, not sure	20:09
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thomasvs	pupnik: hm... what does yours say then ?	20:09
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pupnik	don't have a device to help you with	20:10
pupnik	but i'm pretty sure talk.maemo.org has something about pr1.3	20:10
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: alas not all mixers follow that simple scheme not shown in that nonexistent graphic over there	20:16
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: check WM8753 as used in Freerunner, for example. You're massively lost if you try to tackle that critter with your simplified mixer concept	20:17
DocScrutinizer	AIC34 in N900 is not any much better	20:18
RST38h	Doc: Well, as you have got a software layer for mixing anyway, you can make an approximation	20:18
RST38h	In fact, that is what PA is doing at the moment	20:18
SpeedEvil	AIC is worse in many ways.	20:19
SpeedEvil	How do you model arbitrary filters in sw	20:19
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RST38h	http://focus.tij.co.jp/jp/lit/ml/slyt275/slyt275.pdf ?	20:20
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javispedro	I think you'll eventually need a array of <string,value> mixer controls	20:21
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javispedro	aka the first of the four layers of alsa controls ;)	20:21
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: eeeh what? aproximation? for things like sidetone, or digital filter register settings?	20:23
alterego	Eh?	20:23
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DocScrutinizer	what's the aproximation of micbias switch?	20:26
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DocScrutinizer	of micboost+20dBm?	20:27
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DocScrutinizer	I'd point you to some nice papers/docs and ask how you handle that - if only wiki.om wasn't down right ATM	20:28
javispedro	as I was saying, by an extra set of <string, value> mixer controls	20:29
javispedro	<Mic Boost, Boolean>	20:29
DocScrutinizer	yeah, sure, but not in the way suggested in http://www.oreilly.de/catalog/multilinux/excerpt/ch14-07.htm	20:30
javispedro	what is nice about that is that it is unified	20:30
* alterego sighs		20:30
lardman	who knows about QMaemo5InformationBox::information () ?	20:30
javispedro	ALSA went entirely for the <string, value> way, and you get the issue that user space can't even GUESS what the master volume control is.	20:30
DocScrutinizer	yo	20:31
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DocScrutinizer	that's why you need a second abstraction layer	20:31
* javispedro twitches		20:31
javispedro	but you need one like what pulseaudio does (put the card in "digital profile", "phone mode", etc.), not the useless alsa ones	20:32
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DocScrutinizer	do ps\|grep ped	20:32
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* javispedro twitches again		20:33
DocScrutinizer	that's not paped !	20:33
javispedro	seems that I still have a lot to learn about how the nokia policy thing works	20:34
DocScrutinizer	and we had that concept since ages on OM, called alsa scenarios	20:34
BCMM	are there any "share via service" plugins that use something like omploader?	20:34
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BCMM	also, my USB cable has arrived from Hong Kong!	20:35
* BCMM runs in circles		20:35
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BCMM	(hostmode cable)	20:35
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: ah, the profiles thing was introduced in newer PA versions	20:35
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DocScrutinizer	profiles/scenarios have a massive shortcoming: you can't usually modify them on the fly (see scrollback for the mic mixin issue)	20:37
DocScrutinizer	I developed a concept of merging several scenarios, where for each control it's decided if there's a compatible setting meeting both requests	20:38
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DocScrutinizer	if the scenarios conflict, the one with higher priority is set, and the other audio path is muted	20:39
DocScrutinizer	and the app signalled about that fact	20:39
DocScrutinizer	and the best thing of it: it's completely ALSA :-D	20:40
DocScrutinizer	plus extensions of course	20:40
DocScrutinizer	but those extensions are transparent to all apps using alsa audio	20:41
Choom	I don't see much of a reason to rely on anything other than alsa itself	20:41
Choom	besides alsa being a mess	20:41
MohammadAG	alterego, http://i53.tinypic.com/24vpnj4.jpg (is that small enough?)	20:41
DocScrutinizer	cya	20:41
* Choom still misses the simplicity of OSS		20:41
alterego	MohammadAG: yeah :P	20:42
alterego	I think the buttons would be better vertical and to the right.	20:42
alterego	But that should be configurable ;)	20:42
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MohammadAG	alterego, I was thinking of a slide from the right transition, and hence their location ;)	20:44
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alterego	pfft	20:45
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alterego	You can still slide from the right	20:45
alterego	To the right hand side :P	20:45
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MohammadAG	lol	20:46
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lardman	X-Fade: you about?	20:50
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lardman	or does anyone else know how I link my email to a bugs.maemo.org product?	20:53
NooBmonk3y	?	20:53
lardman	e.g. *@mbarcode.garage.org	20:53
lardman	e.g. *@mbarcode.garage.bugs	20:53
lardman	even	20:53
NooBmonk3y	oh, no idea, :\|	20:53
lardman	I remember setting up the list, but must have forgotten to set my email to receive the reports	20:54
lardman	s/list/tracker	20:54
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pupnik	Things to be thankful for in 2010: the *nixes (android, ios) beat microsoft in the mobiles market. now the world uses unix :) sort of, at least	21:12
RST38h	Tamoggemon Software, based in Germany, has written a book which "takes C++ programmers and transforms them into lean and mean Symbian coding machines".	21:14
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RST38h	As I said, AllAboutSymbian is getting really desperate lately	21:14
javispedro	oh, Tamoggemon	21:15
javispedro	I remember them	21:15
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javispedro	Palm guys	21:15
javispedro	I wrote on their blog in their first days iirc :)	21:15
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pupnik	as long as there are symbian phones there will be a market	21:17
javispedro	I hate it when someone converts "I'm not willing to implement this feature but I will help you do it" to "I will guide you through opening the development environment, find the letter i on the keyboard, find the letter n on the keyboard ... now type int main() { ... "	21:18
pupnik	ew	21:18
javispedro	stop asking dammit.	21:18
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RST38h	cnn.com crashed	21:19
javispedro	dns issue here	21:19
RST38h	yea	21:19
RST38h	same	21:19
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lardman	any way to import iCal etc into the calendar?	21:20
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javispedro	RST38h: http://157.166.224.26/	21:22
RST38h	ah you got the address! =)	21:22
javispedro	thank pdnsd :)	21:22
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: hehe	21:23
DocScrutinizer	is CIA messing up DNS, to kill wikileaks?	21:24
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lardman	anyone know if the Qt apis work with the calendar?	21:27
javispedro	lardman: I believe so	21:27
javispedro	you mean mobility?	21:27
lardman	yep	21:27
javispedro	It should, I do not know if it's stable.	21:28
lardman	hmm, I don't see where it is in mobility though...?	21:29
javispedro	Organizer	21:29
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javispedro	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0/organizer.html	21:29
lardman	ah good stuff	21:29
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lardman	Google still links to the old stuff	21:29
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DocScrutinizer	has Qt got any more sane calendar widget than that idiocy found in e.g. maemo contacts, settings, etc?	21:31
DocScrutinizer	more something like zenity has?	21:31
sp3000	lardman, https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email and add those to the watch list at the bottom	21:31
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DocScrutinizer	btw who's maintaining zenity? the calendar has a flaw	21:33
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DocScrutinizer	or more like a bug	21:34
MohammadAG	qwerty12 afaik	21:35
DocScrutinizer	:-/	21:35
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: could you... ?	21:35
lardman	sp3000: thanks	21:35
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, what's the bug?	21:35
* alterego is building the latest daily meego handset image for the N900		21:35
DocScrutinizer	do a zenity --calendar	21:35
alterego	Might actually get some work done today afterall ..	21:36
DocScrutinizer	try to change to anothe month	21:36
javispedro	alterego: did you succeed in building a recent version of mtf?	21:36
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DocScrutinizer	it works if you grab&swipe on an empty spot	21:36
lardman	sp3000: hmm, actually I don't think that's what I need	21:36
DocScrutinizer	but alas there are monts that have no empty spot either at start of month or at end	21:37
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DocScrutinizer	so you can't get to Oct 2010, from a zenity --calendar	21:38
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alterego	javispedro: yes, eventually.	21:38
alterego	javispedro: well, I built it from git in scratchbox, then I noticed they have their own packaging structure so I tried with dpkg and it failed because of a few build deps that aren't available.	21:38
alterego	Some subscriber framework and an out of date package, can't remember off hand what that is.	21:38
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, looks like a hildon+gtk bug to me	21:38
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DocScrutinizer	and you cant get to August 2011	21:39
MohammadAG	try GTK2_RC_FILES=/ zenity --calendar	21:39
javispedro	alterego: aha, so only deps problems	21:39
MohammadAG	you'll see what I mean	21:39
lardman	sp3000: I want to automatically receive all mbarcode bugs	21:39
DocScrutinizer	DUH!	21:40
alterego	javispedro: yeah.	21:40
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alterego	javispedro: well, and some source changes.	21:40
sp3000	lardman, that'll do it, no?	21:40
alterego	Missing newlines at the ends of some files.	21:40
alterego	Nothing major.	21:40
javispedro	ah, I remember that	21:40
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lardman	sp3000: looks like it just allows me to specify what I want to receive once I'm added to a bug, my issue is that the *@mbarcode.maemo.bugs default email doesn't go to me	21:41
sp3000	lardman, the input at the bottom	21:41
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: well, this GTK"_RC thing has a left/right rotary for month and year, but the swiping up/down is similarly borked	21:41
sp3000	under "User Watching"	21:42
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sp3000	so you want to watch the @mbarcode.maemo.bugs pseudo-users	21:42
lardman	but I am one of those pseudo-users and am not receiving email	21:43
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sp3000	oh, I didn't know it was possible to be one	21:43
lardman	I don't see to be able to put in an email address there	21:44
lardman	it days not recognised, I think it's looking for a username	21:44
lardman	sp3000: well at least I presume I should be, should receive email that is sent to any of those mbarcode.maemo.bugs addresses	21:44
sp3000	hm, I would expect it to take mail (bugzilla doesn't know about other kinds of usernames, the realname is just other text)	21:45
lardman	in which case those addresses aren't real users apparently	21:45
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sp3000	I presumed the pseudo-users would not be receiving mail themselves, just watchers	21:45
lardman	or even pseudo ones	21:45
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lardman	I'll ask X-Fade tomorrow, I've no clue how it's supposed to work I must admit	21:46
lardman	thanks for trying though :)	21:46
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ohh, actually the plain one (w/o GTK2_RC_FILES=/ ) also has the rotary function, only you don't see the arrows, and the hot area is incredibly small, and for me also quite a bit offset	21:46
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sp3000	lardman, timeless_mbp might reappear later, he should understand it too	21:46
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, yep	21:47
lardman	sp3000: cool, thanks	21:47
DocScrutinizer	well I gather it's more a question of a proper GTK theme then, first instance?	21:48
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, yep	21:48
MohammadAG	you can use any theme you want	21:48
DocScrutinizer	though that swiping bug is really annoying	21:48
MohammadAG	I found this btw, http://qtnode.net/wiki/Custom_widgets	21:48
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DocScrutinizer	pff, in fact that's not swiping at all, just another button hot-area where there are no date digits in calendar for that month	21:50
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jacekowski	i was wondering, how is SAW technology coming along	21:54
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jacekowski	is it anywhere close to be usable?	21:54
RST38h	wow, dns is really screwed	21:55
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MohammadAG	any git experts here?	21:58
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javispedro	do you really need an expert or will a noob suffice?	21:58
MohammadAG	noob will suffice I suppose, probably than me :P	21:58
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MohammadAG	I added Venemo as a collaborator	21:59
MohammadAG	but I can't figure out how to let him push the changes	21:59
MohammadAG	he made the commit	21:59
Venemo	I can't push	21:59
javispedro	it's a gitorious issue then	21:59
javispedro	Venemo: error message?	21:59
MohammadAG	nah, seems like a me-being-a-git-noob issue	21:59
MohammadAG	push url is read only	22:00
Venemo	interesting	22:00
javispedro	git itself has no concept of users or permissions	22:00
MohammadAG	shouldn't git clone copy the correct URL?	22:00
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MohammadAG	or does he have to set it	22:00
javispedro	you might have cloned frm the read only URL?	22:00
javispedro	if you cloned from it, it will by default try to push to it	22:00
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MohammadAG	how can he change it?	22:01
javispedro	git config remote.origin.url=newurl	22:01
Venemo	javispedro: http://fpaste.org/ONdh/	22:01
javispedro	"git config --get remote.origin.url" to get it	22:01
javispedro	Venemo: yeah, confirming: you should have cloned from the ssh:// url	22:02
Venemo	javispedro: and http://fpaste.org/Hiti/	22:02
MohammadAG	git config remote.origin.url=git@gitorious.org:mediabar/mediabar.git then?	22:02
Venemo	javispedro: why isn't the git:// working? eh.	22:02
javispedro	MohammadAG: yep	22:02
javispedro	Venemo: I think the only one that works is ssh one :S	22:02
Kaadlajk	guess there is no way to authenticate thru git://	22:03
Venemo	eh.	22:03
MohammadAG	Venemo, git config remote.origin.url=git@gitorious.org:mediabar/mediabar.git	22:03
Venemo	so what should I do?	22:03
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Venemo	MohammadAG: ok, did it	22:03
MohammadAG	git push origin master	22:03
javispedro	now try pushing, and wait for the inevitable error message (you need to setup ssh keys, etc.)	22:03
MohammadAG	you have your ssh key there right?	22:04
MohammadAG	heh	22:04
MohammadAG	try pushing first	22:04
Venemo	javispedro, MohammadAG: still this error message http://fpaste.org/ONdh/	22:04
javispedro	oh	22:04
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javispedro	Venemo: paste output of "git config -l", remove your email address from it if you want	22:05
Venemo	javispedro: http://fpaste.org/bb0w/	22:05
Venemo	javispedro: my e-mail address is not in there	22:05
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javispedro	aw sorry	22:06
MohammadAG	can't he just sed the config file?	22:06
javispedro	git config remote.origin.url git@gitorious.org:mediabar/mediabar.git	22:06
javispedro	syntax doesn't have = sign.	22:06
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javispedro	Venemo: "git config remote.origin.url git@gitorious.org:mediabar/mediabar.git" then retry pushing	22:07
ZogG	quimgil	22:07
ZogG	All I have to say about the Nokia strategy is that I like it. And now, with your permission I'm going to do my stuff.	22:07
Venemo	new error: http://fpaste.org/hRIL/	22:07
ZogG	LOLOLOLOLOLOL	22:07
Venemo	ZogG: lol indeed	22:07
ZogG	Venemo you didn't see how he tried to layer me =)	22:08
Venemo	ZogG: I thought you're saying LOL to my link :P	22:08
ZogG	i asked why they advise to developers not to develop for maemo5	22:08
ZogG	and he said something about meego and maemo and symbian	22:08
ZogG	Venemo i was talking about quimgil	22:09
MohammadAG	Venemo, add your public key	22:09
ZogG	MohammadAG good work pal btw	22:09
Venemo	MohammadAG: how do I do that?	22:09
ZogG	wanted to say you several times, didn't have a chance	22:10
ZogG	Venemo why do you use fedora paste? =)	22:10
MohammadAG	got your dashboard, edit ssh keys, and add yours	22:10
MohammadAG	ZogG, thanks :)	22:10
Venemo	ZogG: two reasons. 1) MohammadAG told pastebin is down 2) I use Fedora :P	22:10
ZogG	nope, thank you	22:10
Venemo	ZogG: and \| fpaste works sometimes :)	22:11
MohammadAG	cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub to get your key	22:11
ZogG	Venemo 1) pastie.org and thousands others, 2) are you srs?	22:11
Venemo	MohammadAG: cat: /home/Timur/.ssh/id_rsa.pub: No such file or directory	22:11
javispedro	ssh-keygen -t rsa	22:11
Venemo	ZogG: I am srs. Why?	22:11
ZogG	Venemo creat a key than	22:12
ZogG	Venemo fedora? if so than ubuntu	22:12
* MohammadAG wants a darker Ubuntu theme		22:12
ZogG	MohammadAG there a lot	22:13
Venemo	ZogG: I use Fedora, what's the problem with that?	22:13
MohammadAG	ZogG, same as stock?	22:13
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MohammadAG	Venemo, generated a key?	22:13
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Venemo	MohammadAG: yes, I did	22:14
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ZogG	MohammadAG you want 1 as stock but darker or dark theme?	22:14
Venemo	now I made an SSH key and I uploaded it to Gitorious	22:14
Venemo	ha!	22:15
Venemo	commit succeded! :)	22:15
Venemo	or push	22:15
Venemo	whatever	22:15
javispedro	http://gitorious.org/mediabar/mediabar	22:16
javispedro	it works :)	22:16
Venemo	why don't I see my commit on Gitorious?	22:16
javispedro	well I do ...	22:16
javispedro	refresh, or just wait.	22:16
Venemo	oh, I see it now too	22:16
Venemo	MohammadAG: does it work?	22:17
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MohammadAG	javispedro, how do I sync changes?	22:18
javispedro	MohammadAG: git pull	22:18
MohammadAG	git pull?	22:18
Venemo	javispedro: thank you very-very-VERY much for your help :)	22:18
Venemo	javispedro: Git hates me :(	22:18
javispedro	Venemo: just hope it doesn't break in the near future =)	22:19
MohammadAG	heh, failed	22:20
Venemo	well then just backup your changes, delete the directory, then clone again	22:20
javispedro	hah	22:20
javispedro	failed due to what? local changes?	22:20
javispedro	bah, I've spent the entire afternoon on hold here just in case I got called from work and nothing happened.	22:22
* javispedro curses		22:22
MohammadAG	nvm, fixed it	22:22
Venemo	so MohammadAG, does the stuff work for you?	22:22
MohammadAG	yes, just doing minor changes, you got rid of the timeout :)	22:23
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Venemo	MohammadAG: sorry for that, I got rid of most of the DBus code	22:24
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MohammadAG	noticed that, thanks :)	22:26
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Venemo	MohammadAG: the question is, does it work?	22:26
MohammadAG	yep, also added the timeout back and it still works :)	22:27
MohammadAG	btw, does it matter where #includes are? you moved it from the .h to the .cpp file	22:27
Venemo	MohammadAG: just the DBus include	22:27
alterego	Does the N900 work well on Verizon?	22:28
MohammadAG	yeah, why?	22:28
Venemo	MohammadAG: that's because there is no DBus code in the .h, so no need for it to be there?	22:28
MohammadAG	hmm	22:28
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MohammadAG	but the .h file is included anyways	22:28
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Venemo	yes	22:28
Venemo	this is a general good practice anyway	22:28
lcuk	oh, hi b-man` \o	22:29
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MohammadAG	Venemo, you removed setWindowAttribute(Qt::WA_TranslucentBackground); :P	22:29
b-man`	hey lcuk :)	22:29
Venemo	MohammadAG: yes, because the rest of the window is transculent anyway	22:30
lcuk	b-man`, you got the green light to come on then	22:30
Venemo	MohammadAG: you can readd it, I was just experimenting with stuff	22:30
* lcuk pokes Venemo and MohammadAG		22:30
Venemo	hello lcuk o7	22:30
MohammadAG	Venemo, setAttribute(Qt::WA_TranslucentBackground);*	22:30
b-man`	lcuk: rofl	22:31
MohammadAG	Venemo, oh, that's because the buttons are borked	22:31
MohammadAG	install alphathemefix :P	22:31
Venemo	MohammadAG: what's that?	22:31
b-man`	lcuk: I've been busy teaching myself how to properly solder for a project i'm working on	22:31
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lcuk	b-man`, oooh	22:31
* lcuk once had a job fixing circuit boards		22:32
MohammadAG	Venemo, it replaces the buttons with borders with borderless buttons	22:32
b-man`	it involves JeeNodes :)	22:32
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MohammadAG	it's how PSFreedom's buttons look nice	22:32
Venemo	MohammadAG: oh.	22:32
b-man`	(JeeNode is basically an arduino with a radio)	22:32
lcuk	ooh	22:32
MohammadAG	b-man`, OC your N900 and solder with it, nice little tool isn't it?	22:32
b-man`	LOL	22:33
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Venemo	MohammadAG: hehe	22:33
lcuk	actually theres other ways to warm up an n900	22:33
MohammadAG	Venemo, shall I make the buttons small or not?	22:33
lcuk	some people are reporting being able to fry bacon on the keyboard	22:33
Venemo	MohammadAG: a bit smaller, yes	22:33
Venemo	MohammadAG: and maybe flat	22:33
b-man`	lcuk: what kind of equipment did you work on? :)	22:33
Venemo	MohammadAG: something like on the 5800?	22:33
lcuk	MohammadAG, which ui are you discussing?	22:33
lcuk	b-man`, vending machine coin mechs	22:34
Venemo	lcuk, the Media Bar	22:34
b-man`	heh	22:34
lcuk	b-man`, learning about just how a coin is detected as real and its value and how it rejects fakes whilst it bounces down a short pathway is awesome	22:34
* lcuk liked the piezo bounce unit best		22:35
lcuk	at the end of a run, it hit a piezo wall which detected a certain frequency/voltage spike	22:35
lcuk	different coins have different results	22:35
b-man`	cool :)	22:36
lcuk	I think of that stuff every time I put a coin in a machine and smile :)	22:36
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MohammadAG	<lcuk> actually theres other ways to warm up an n900	22:38
b-man`	lcuk: that'd be a great subject for the science channel's "How Stuff Works" show :)	22:38
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MohammadAG	use it with a nipple	22:38
lcuk	b-man`, there probably is already	22:39
lcuk	another stage involves coils and induction	22:39
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lcuk	MohammadAG, o_O	22:41
lcuk	nipples to do what?	22:41
MohammadAG	to heat it up	22:41
MohammadAG	you've been working with nipples for some time now, I've got logs!	22:41
b-man`	lol	22:42
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Venemo	MohammadAG: yeah, but his are artifical ones	22:42
MohammadAG	mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/.xchat2/xchatlogs$ cat FreeNode-#liqbase.log \| grep nipple* \| wc -l	22:43
MohammadAG	12	22:43
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lcuk	:$	22:43
MohammadAG	:P	22:43
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lcuk	when also tied in with boob it probably looks quite bad	22:43
lcuk	MohammadAG, at the conference revdkathy wanted me to make an app	22:44
lcuk	liqballs	22:44
* lcuk declined.		22:44
MohammadAG	LMFAO	22:44
b-man`	oh god XD	22:44
DangerMaus	boobs and balls hmmm	22:44
* lcuk now hopes #liqbase does not end up as a XXX channel		22:45
* MohammadAG invites friends		22:45
b-man`	lcuk: shhhh!!!!!!!1	22:45
Venemo	lcuk: well then, thank me for not posting pics and vids when you guys asked for them... :P	22:45
lcuk	i did not ask	22:46
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lcuk	in that case anyway :P	22:46
MohammadAG	<KotCzarny> venemo: pics or it didn't happen :P	22:46
MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> s/pics/vids/	22:46
MohammadAG	it wasn't him :P	22:46
* lcuk considers removing boobie touch video though		22:46
* MohammadAG didn't see that one		22:46
Venemo	unfortunately, in English the word 'you' means plural and singular too	22:46
MohammadAG	or did I...	22:46
lcuk	hold on ill post it	22:46
MohammadAG	NSFW?	22:47
lardman	hmm, anyone else have qt-mobility-organiser installable?	22:47
lardman	s/s/z	22:47
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.packard.bell.multitouch.boobies.fail.20100402_003.mp4	22:47
lcuk	actually, very safe for work :P	22:47
lcuk	MohammadAG, it was even on youtube for a short while o_O	22:47
lcuk	lardman, not tried	22:48
lcuk	wheres the giturl?	22:48
MohammadAG	I thought desktops were connect to AC so they don't auto sleep	22:48
MohammadAG	damn windows	22:48
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lardman	javispedro: as you pointed it out, have you been able to install the organizer (sic) stuff on an N900?	22:49
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javispedro	lardman: unfortunately I tried before it was even packaged	22:50
javispedro	I clearly remember there was a maemo5 organizer backend .so file	22:50
lardman	is it packaged? I didn't see it in the repo	22:50
javispedro	I mean the entire qtmobility	22:50
javispedro	look for qtm-*	22:50
javispedro	or qtm =)	22:50
javispedro	hmm	22:51
javispedro	cannot find it	22:51
lardman	not just me then :)	22:51
MohammadAG	lol lcuk	22:53
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Arkenoi	lcuk, is it capacitive one?	22:54
javispedro	no idea what they did with the package	22:54
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lcuk	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta/organizer.html	22:54
lcuk	organiser api is mobility 1.1	22:54
lcuk	its nott in 1.0	22:54
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javispedro	oh.	22:55
lcuk	the qtmobility meta package was created in a way which should allow updating it	22:55
lcuk	however, since complete packaging for qtm 1.1 is not even yet fully available	22:55
lcuk	(i have been talking to qtm guys and community hacker from meego	22:55
lcuk	and he has offered initial packaging for meego rpm stuff	22:55
* lcuk guesses that 1.1 debs are in need of the same kind of love		22:56
lardman	fair enough, just wondering if I can use qtm eventually on the N900 or if I need to go back to the raw calendar backend api	22:56
lcuk	lardman, its entirely feasible	22:56
lcuk	and should be added as candidate for the community ssu as they both get organised	22:56
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alterego	Error: failed to create image : Failed to apply configuration to image	22:57
* javispedro sighs		22:57
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javispedro	yet another topic that will some day be talked about on the "maemo5 support" thread	22:58
lardman	ah well, on that note I think I'll head to the TV, can't be arsed to work out how the calendar-backend stuff works tonight	22:58
MohammadAG	is this right? if(QSettings().value("main/timeout").toString().isEmpty() \|\| QSettings().value("main/timeout").isNull())	22:58
MohammadAG	QSettings().value("main/timeout").setValue(1500);	22:58
lcuk	lardman, how would a frontend work?	22:58
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lardman	lcuk: that's the name of the lib: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/calendar-backend/	22:58
lcuk	lardman, get the latest libraries into your scratchbox and run qmake; make	22:59
lcuk	?	22:59
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lcuk	>> hacking	23:01
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: why not check the .toInt value? If there's no proper int inside the setting, the compare should fail anyway	23:13
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GAN900	If we can reimplement most of the Maemo 5 applications before Christmas, do we get to call Nokia a band of incompetent idiots?	23:15
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MohammadAG	GAN900, question is, can we?	23:18
MohammadAG	I can redo all the UIs, can you implement the backends?	23:18
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SpeedEvil	I will give anyone who succeeds in such a task a gold bar for christmas (*)	23:22
SpeedEvil	* May be 24 carat gold, with a core of chocolate.	23:22
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GAN900	MohammadAG, no, I'm just a cheerleader. :P	23:24
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b-man`	:)	23:25
pupnik	did anybody ever get pulseaudio running without xprot speaker protection on n900	23:27
pupnik	? i'm curious whether that was most of the cpu load, or whether it was caused by PA itself	23:27
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otwieracz	Hello.	23:28
otwieracz	Does anybody have pidgin with working GPG?	23:28
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Triscar0	is there a support channel for SMScon ?	23:31
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djszapi	hey, how can I open a html file in offline mode ? What is the browser name on n900 ?	23:35
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BCMM	djszapi: if you select an HTML file in the file manager, it opens in the browser	23:36
SpeedEvil	file:///	23:36
SpeedEvil	or that	23:36
BCMM	also, you can type file:// urls in the address bar	23:36
djszapi	so what is the programname if I would like to do it from cli ?	23:36
BCMM	(meaning that, contrary to popular opinion, the n900 does ship with a non-locked-down file browser)	23:36
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SpeedEvil	I don't think you can start the browser from the commandline cleanly	23:38
SpeedEvil	\	23:38
SpeedEvil	you can call it by DBUS	23:38
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Triscar0	someone here who has smscon? or knows about another good tracking-mobile prog?	23:39
Triscar0	cant get smscon to work:\	23:39
djszapi	how can I play songs on a html page, like builtin ff player of xine and so on on my N900 ?	23:39
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MohammadAG	alterego, was the shower enough inspiration for transitions? :P	23:42
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alterego	Well, I had the idea for fixing the transitions before I had the shower :P	23:46
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MohammadAG	so the idea went down the drain?	23:49
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alterego	No, I got side tracked.	23:50
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alterego	:P	23:51
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alterego	I'll have a look at it in a bit :P	23:51
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MohammadAG	alterego, check the latest commit	23:52
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alterego	Oh, that's nice :)	23:54
alterego	You're using the proper API. Now isn't that a lot cleaner :D	23:54
NooBmonk3y	hmmm linuxy question, whats the best way to share my movie collection from ubuntu, so my xp laptops can see it? :)	23:55
SpeedEvil	samba?	23:55
MohammadAG	alterego, it's not me who made the commit :P	23:55
MohammadAG	NooBmonk3y, install ubuntu on the laptops	23:56
alterego	Heh	23:56
MohammadAG	what? you asked for the best way	23:56
NooBmonk3y	lol Mo :P	23:56
NooBmonk3y	:\|	23:56
pupnik	:)	23:56
mece	alterego, quick question	23:56
MohammadAG	alterego, got a gitorious account?	23:56
pupnik	samba is a straightforward way to serve your files. if you want some blingy movie-only solution maybe uPnP	23:56
alterego	Yeah	23:57
alterego	"tswindell"	23:57
pupnik	and for streaming video to n900 or remote devices i still like ukki's "knots2" server	23:57
pupnik	being able to seek in streams is great	23:57
* alterego is slightly dissappointed he can't build a madde sysroot		23:57
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MohammadAG	alterego, added	23:58
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alterego	fanks	23:58

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