IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-12-02

MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, fix your package, it lacks any binaries and therefore, has no functionality :P00:03
MohammadAGi'm off to bed, gnite :)00:03
MohammadAGhint, don't use $(APPNAME) in debian/rules in install: section, use healthcheck instead00:04
Venemogood night MohammadAG :)00:06
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infobotTomorrow will probably suck too.00:18
alteregoteeheehee, got my app streaming through one of the bluetooth serial ports now :D00:18
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alteregoI think it's safe to say my application has probably the most connectivity options available in any app on the N900 ^.^00:20
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pupnikinfobot must have been written by a Finn00:27
alteregoColumbus has reached 8627 lines of code00:30
alteregoQuite pleased :)00:30
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pupnikwhat your app doo?00:33
alteregoWell, that and data streaming over bluetooth, network and now USB serial emulation.00:34
alteregoAnd logging to file, waypoints, arbitrary bearing indication, track navigation and reverse track navigation.00:35
alteregoBasic handheld GPS stuff.00:35
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: ask for help author00:37
DocScrutinizerno Finn00:37
pupnikinteresting alterego00:42
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pupnikty DocScrutinizer00:43
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BCMMalterego: ooh, is that released at all?00:51
alteregoNo, not yet.00:52
alteregoStill got a few things to do.00:52
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alteregoAnyhow, bed time, night folks.00:53
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infobotTomorrow will probably suck too.01:03
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chem|stwhere does qtirreco store its button configs? I mean the actual code to send (yes I wanna tv-b-gone)01:34
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nomischem|st: It uses lirc as a backend IIRC.01:36
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: have to run now. will answer all yout questions later01:36
chem|stnomis: what about the buttons you setup in it, there has to be some kind of database or config file for those buttons01:36
chem|stDocScrutinizer: ty01:36
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DocScrutinizerconfig is mostly in MyDocs/.irreco or sth like that01:37
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: no .irreco no .qtirreco configs in home.. going to grep / for it01:40
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: i have compiled kernel with NAT support in scratchbox. Can i install it with flasher to N900?01:42
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chem|stwtf why is the folder in MyDocs not listed on double tab01:43
javispedrotrumee: how did you get the kernel source?01:43
trumeejavispedro: apt-get install kernel-source01:44
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trumeejavispedro: apt-get source kernel-source01:44
javispedrodid you run make rx51_def_config to get the .config file?01:44
trumeejavispedro: i copied ./arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig to .config01:45
nomischem|st: took me a while to find them again, ~/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices01:46
trumeejavispedro: Is that kernel complete with all Nokia binary blobs? Dont want to brick my device with modules left out.01:46
nomisbut I guess you found that yourself as well inbetween  :)01:46
javispedrotrumee: there are no binary blobs, and yes, that should be the complete source.01:46
trumeejavispedro: i was under the impression some things were closed source on the device?01:47
javispedrotrumee: but what do you exactly plan to do? did you add modules?01:47
javispedrotrumee: some applications and libraries are closed source, but not the kernel.01:47
trumeejavispedro: i need NAT support in the kernel01:47
trumeejavispedro:  i enabled CONFIG_NF_CONNTRACK=m and NF_CONNTRACK_PPTP=m01:48
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javispedrotrumee: so all you got are two new modules?01:48
javispedrotrumee: then just run make modules_install on scratchbox, go find them in /lib/modules/ and copy to device01:49
chem|stnomis: DocScrutinizer got it ty01:49
chem|stnomis: for qtirreco it is differnet01:49
javispedrotrumee: this way, there's no way you could brick the device :)01:50
DocScrutinizerchem|st: maybe interesting to know irreco is starting lirc by calling /etc/init.d/lirc01:50
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trumeejavispedro: i hope other modules dont depend on these ones.01:50
javispedrotrumee: that you just enabled? how? :)01:50
nomischem|st: when I tried to do the tvbgone thing the stumbling block was, that the lirc on the n900 does (did?) not support raw codes. Which is a problem if you want to unify dozends of different encoding schemes.01:51
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javispedrotrumee: worst issue would be the image being different with any of those enabled. this would mean loading the modules on the device kernel would fail or misbehave. but not a brick.01:51
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trumeejavispedro: thanks, going to try that tomorrow. need to get some sleep now. gn all01:52
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chem|stnomis: I was to grep all powerbuttons from lirc if that helps01:53
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mpoirierCan someone point me out to a wiki that will tell me how to compile the n900 meego kernel.01:53
mpoirierI've been here:
mpoirierand got the  kernel- file.01:53
mpoirierI'm sure you guys have a way of automatically applying the pathes.  I asked on #meego-arm but no luck.01:53
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chem|stmpoirier: wrong channel go to #meego pls01:53
nomischem|st: actually there is a really nice collection of power down codes in the open source tvbgone clone. It requires some reading of C code to understand it though.01:53
chem|stnomis: what does it use for talking to the transmitter?01:54
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nomischem|st: toggeling an IO-pin on a microcontroller.01:55
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chem|stoh the OS device01:56
nomischem|st: in is a WORLDcodes.c file where the codes are stored. They do some funky compression like thing which is a bit hard to track down.02:00
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: I used Irreco on one N900, and the lirc daemon listening to that tcp port, on another N900 which sits as a proxy directly in front of the TV set. Works like a charm :-D02:11
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: all I had to do was change "localhost" to "<IP-of-proxy>" on the remote N900 irreco config02:12
DocScrutinizerplus of course configure proxy accordingly to use the correct LircDevice02:13
DocScrutinizerand start it02:13
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: so you controlled your lirc0 via the listening port?02:15
chem|stDocScrutinizer: by knowing the right code ok02:15
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DocScrutinizerirreco knows the right code02:15
chem|stDocScrutinizer: for a single TV I onlz needed two tries on remote codes to find the right for that specific one without knowing model number or remote model number02:16
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DocScrutinizeraah that code02:16
DocScrutinizeryeah can become annoying and tedious02:16
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nomisDocScrutinizer: tvbgone is a slightly different task than controlling a single tv set. The interesting part is, that it requires lots of different encoding schemes.02:17
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chem|stI am looking for powerbutton lirc codes02:17
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chem|stnomis: no it doesn't02:17
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nomischem|st: ...or raw codes  :)02:18
DocScrutinizernomis: I have no f'ing clue what you're talking about02:18
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chem|stnomis: you just need the lirc codes for all power buttons...02:19
chem|stin case of n900 you are not limited to 230 buttons02:19
DocScrutinizeromg, now I get it02:19
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chem|st(qt)irreco is able to macro-master all codes on a single button and that I wanna use for good02:20
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nomischem|st: yesh, but LIRC forces you to put them into different configuration files, since each file has its own encoding scheme for the individual codes. I am talking about different IR pulses to encode 1's and 0's as well as attention-pulses.02:20
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* DocScrutinizer shakes head02:20
chem|stnomis: the LG one and the Terratec I am looking at look just the same...02:21
nomischem|st: ok, yeah, I did not think about macros.02:21
nomischem|st: look at WorldCodes.c - there are tons of different pulse schemes, there are even different IR-modulation frequencies.02:22
DocScrutinizeruseless effort02:22
chem|stDocScrutinizer: why?02:22
DocScrutinizernomis: yes. So what?02:22
nomisDocScrutinizer: where is the point where I lost you?02:22
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: range of N900 is 3m at best02:22
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nomisDocScrutinizer: which is enough for e.g. restaurants.02:23
DocScrutinizerif you think so02:23
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: I know... but probing some codes while leaving for the toilet at a friends doesn't harm does it?02:23
nomissure, if you're trying to switch all tv sets in a best buy then you're better of building dedicated hardware.02:24
nomisbetter off even.02:24
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timeless_mbpso um02:24
timeless_mbpcan someone get me the menu code for my stupid dvr?02:24
timeless_mbpthe remote died and all i have is an n900 :(02:24
timeless_mbpi have codes for power, and most items, the one i don't have is the one that lets me access my list of recorded programming :(02:25
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: model of dvr and remote?02:25
jogaisn't there a database of those somewhere?02:25
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nomistimeless_mbp: did you find a suitable LIRC config file?02:25
chem|stjoga: not for all02:25
timeless_mbphandan vc-7700 pvr02:25
timeless_mbphow would i find the remote thing?02:26
timeless_mbpnomis: i found a config for a related model02:26
timeless_mbpbut it didn't have the program list menu tiem02:26
DocScrutinizerthe building of a proper codeset is rather trivial, when you approach it the hw centric way. There's a limited number of controller chips, each of which has 2,3, or 4 addr pins to bind the chip to a certain type of appliance. Then there are also some addr bits for manufacturer, and the remaning usually 6 (iirc) bits rae predefined, there's only one valid power key pattern per chip02:26
infobottimeless_mbp meant: but it didn't have the program list menu item02:26
nomistimeless_mbp: might be a good starting point.02:26
nomisDocScrutinizer: what controller chips? That usually is an IR demodulator tied to a pin of the appliance processor.02:27
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: have you found any 'vantage hd 7100' codes for that at it is the same build02:28
DocScrutinizernomis: BS, in the remote you have no demodulator. You got a specialized chip with a LED02:28
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nomisDocScrutinizer: oh, you're talking about the remote.02:28
DocScrutinizerthere's a limited number of such chips02:28
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nomisDocScrutinizer: and your conclusion from that fact is?02:29
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DocScrutinizermy conclusion is that your approach to collect random code files is unnecessarily complicated02:30
timelessnmis: it's a crappy starting point. and i've been there02:31
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nomisDocScrutinizer: and your approach would be?02:31
nomistimeless_mbp: yeah, granted.02:31
DocScrutinizeras mentioned above, the hw centric approach, loking into the datasheets of available controller chips02:31
timeless_mbpnomis: i'd rather someone write something which rotates through a series of pulses02:32
timeless_mbpand asks me if any of them did something02:32
timeless_mbpcan you do that? :)02:32
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: that's what I suggested some weeks ago02:32
nomisDocScrutinizer: implements 20 different protocols (IR pulse encoding schemes) which have up to 16 bits of ID codes and up to 16 bits of key codes. Have fun iterating through these.02:32
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timeless_mbpnomis: so...02:32
timeless_mbpif there are vaguely standard power buttons02:33
timeless_mbpone per protocol02:33
timeless_mbpthen it's pretty easy02:33
timeless_mbpfirst you loop through protocols trying to kill or start the device02:33
timeless_mbpthen having found the right one02:33
timeless_mbpyou loop through codes02:33
nomistimeless_mbp: see above, there is a nice collection for the open source tvbgone hardware. *That* would be a good starting point.02:33
DocScrutinizernomis: so what's your way of having fun? iterating thru random files that have zillions of doublettes and never get the complete code set?02:33
chem|sttimeless_mbp: with about 190 codes you get 90% of all TVs02:33
timeless_mbpchem|st: just fix my stupid dvr :)02:34
nomisDocScrutinizer: I am talking about WORLDcodes.c02:34
DocScrutinizerso what?02:34
chem|sttimeless_mbp: ok I am back on that02:34
DocScrutinizerI'm talking about 5th of april 199802:34
nomisDocScrutinizer: that has all the information needed. It just is not easily suitable for LIRC.02:34
chem|sttimeless_mbp: you may send me your hardware and I try to fix it02:34
timeless_mbpchem|st: geoping02:35
DocScrutinizersorry, this discussion starts to get boring. CYA02:35
nomisI just wonder why nobody implemented Tvbgone for n900 yet, where people have asked for this for ages and it supposedly is so easy.02:37
nomisanyway, I appreciate anyone attemting this.02:37
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: have you got some codes like up and down?02:38
timeless_mbpchem|st: yeah02:38
timeless_mbpi have arrows, numbers, and a bunch of others02:39
timeless_mbpjust not <program list>02:39
chem|sttimeless_mbp: I need the arrows pls02:39
chem|stah not menu is missing? program list02:39
timeless_mbphow about i push the file i have and you figure out what the arrows are?02:39
timeless_mbpprogram list02:39
chem|sthave you tried all the codes?02:40
chem|stfrom close?02:40
chem|stso if I hit on douplets I can figure out02:40
nomisbtw. the logitech harmony remotes are backed by a fantastic database, which unfortunately is very much proprietary. You can configure them by sending some random codes to their server and get a list of matching remote models.02:41
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: have you tried all button codes from your LircDevice? or did you just try random remote definitions from Irreco?02:41
timeless_mbpok, where does irreco stores its files?02:41
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: do you know how bloody horrible irreco is?02:42
chem|sttimeless_mbp: MyDocs/irreco/02:42
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: ~user/MyDocs/irreco02:42
* pupnik approve of tvbgone02:42
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: yes I now02:42
chem|sttimeless_mbp: geopong 49.43891,7.7687702:42
timeless_mbpchem|st: i have a file Handan_DVB-C_500002:42
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: that is the one shipped with lirc DB02:43
timeless_mbpchem|st: hrm, i wonder if i have anyone in the office going there02:43
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: less /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/*02:43
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: that's the file02:43
timeless_mbpand there's no less02:43
timeless_mbp(Sold separately)02:43
nomisDocScrutinizer: when did your dual-N900 trick, did you look at what actually gets transferred there? Button-IDs referring to some lirc config file in the remote N900? Or complete encoding information?02:44
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nomistimeless_mbp: "more" works  :)02:44
DocScrutinizerno I didn't look, as I've seen the info in lirc docs previously02:44
timeless_mbpnomis: so, if you have that file, do you need it from me?02:44
chem|stnomis: on lirc0 udp you send dircet codes usualy02:44
chem|sttimeless_mbp: no02:45
DocScrutinizerand afaik it's symbolic button names02:45
DocScrutinizerthe codes are specified in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/*02:45
DocScrutinizer      begin codes02:45
DocScrutinizer          mute                     0x906F02:45
DocScrutinizer          vol+                     0x40BF02:45
DocScrutinizer          vol-                     0xC03F02:45
nomisDocScrutinizer: so you have to put these config files on the "remote" N900 as well as on your "local" N900 then. Ok.02:46
chem|sttimeless_mbp: what I am looking for is the vantage/handan/globis/something same build atm02:46
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DocScrutinizerfor creating a new button you need those defs in cfg file on remote as well. For operating a ready-made remote you don't need them anymore02:47
chem|stDocScrutinizer: you can do both... the button pointer is nothing more than a pointer to the device file02:47
timeless_mbpchem|st: nick highlight me when you want my attn02:49
nomisI was hoping that one could send the information from the config file head via that protocol. Then a standalone tv-b-gone app would be easier and would not necessarily involve lots of config files.02:51
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: lazy sucker, did you look into /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* ? Have you checked if there's a button name like "proglist"?02:51
timeless_mbpno such button02:52
DocScrutinizerwhat's the name of the controller chip def file you got there, first of all?02:52
nomistimeless_mbp: could you put that file into a pastebin?02:52
timeless_mbpnomis: pastebin=pain, gimme a bit02:53
nomistimeless_mbp: I recommend installing "pastebinit" on your laptop, not sure if it is available for the n900 itself though  :)02:53
chem|sttimeless_mbp: go to download from DB go to handan.. there it is you lazy bastard! :)02:54
DocScrutinizernomis: it is02:54
nomisah cool.02:54
timeless_mbpchem|st: ???02:55
chem|stif you do not have that in irreco I have it in qtirreco ;)02:55
chem|stjust found it in the database and had a look at qtirreco and found it02:55
javispedroI just found a leak02:56
javispedroevil, evil javispedro.02:56
chem|stif you are looking for remotes you need the remote model not the dvr model02:56
timeless_mbpirreco's ui for db stuff is a disaster02:56
timeless_mbphow the **** would i know the remote model?02:56
* DocScrutinizer throws some hemp and pitch at javispedro02:56
timeless_mbpi have to guess the category for the <whatever>02:56
timeless_mbpwhich is totally random02:56
chem|sttimeless_mbp: if you are downloading finished remotes with buttons you may look for the device you want to handle02:56
nomischem|st: is the available database browsable via web somewhere?02:57
timeless_mbpchem|st: ok, in irreco where the heck is the db thing?02:57
DocScrutinizerin the intrnetz?02:57
chem|sttimeless_mbp: have youy got things like digibox?02:57
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: what DocScrutinizer said ;)02:58
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: sorry02:58
timeless_mbpi don't have internetz02:58
timeless_mbpi have irreco02:58
timeless_mbpor however they spelz it02:58
timeless_mbpin irreco the only thing i see under handan is the 5000 thing02:58
DocScrutinizerso youre doomed, loser!02:58
chem|sttimeless_mbp: I got two options to download remotes, one shows brands and one shows kind of hardware02:59
DocScrutinizerirreco downloads new remote definitions from internet02:59
chem|stnomis: yes02:59
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: my phone is connected to the internet02:59
timeless_mbpbut as a user, all i see is irreco02:59
chem|sttimeless_mbp: EYES TO ME...03:00
* DocScrutinizer sighs03:00
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javispedrowhen all you see is irreco...03:00
timeless_mbpchem|st: ok03:00
timeless_mbp[ignoring DocScrutinizer ]03:00
chem|sttimeless_mbp: you got the thing by hardware?03:00
timeless_mbplet's say i have nothing running on my n90003:00
timeless_mbpand the dvr is on03:00
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timeless_mbpand has cable running through it03:00
javispedroDocScrutinizer: there, fix applied! I was leaking an entire pixmap no less!03:00
nomischem|st: can you point me to it? My google-fu fails me at the moment.03:00
* javispedro prays for the poor users03:01
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timeless_mbpchem|st: what do you want me to do?03:01
myuok so is this easy debian thin03:01
myulike a kernel?03:01
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: you're amazingly obdurate to accept help03:01
* timeless_mbp is totally confused03:02
timeless_mbpoh, and i'm ignoring DocScrutinizer per instructions from chem|st03:02
chem|sttimeless_mbp: create a button with your damn code... the remote file is BN59-00685A03:02
DocScrutinizerin /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/*03:02
javispedromyu: no. it's more like a chroot.03:02
myuoh I was afraid it was a kernel03:03
myuill try it out now03:03
timeless_mbpchem|st: is the file i had03:03
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timeless_mbpwhat the heck is BN59...?03:04
timeless_mbpsorry, end user here03:04
myuits the code on your remote03:04
chem|stthe remote you are looking for03:04
myudont use the tv code03:04
myuuse the remote code03:04
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: in irreco menu you got a button "download remote" which gets you predefined complete remotes - those may or may not have the button you need03:04
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: we are looking for the blue butoon right?03:05
timeless_mbpit's a button labeled "PVR" on the physical remote...03:05
timeless_mbpdo you want a picture of the remote?03:05
* timeless_mbp is confused03:05
timeless_mbpagain, end user here03:05
DocScrutinizerin "edit remote" you can create new buttons, and select functions for them, from the set of functions defined in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* which you can download in "edit remote" menu by "Download from LircDB"03:05
timeless_mbpmy n900 has nothing running03:05
timeless_mbpwalk me through it by telling me what application to open03:06
timeless_mbpwhat buttons to click03:06
chem|sttimeless_mbp: go in edit remote mode03:06
timeless_mbpin which application?03:06
timeless_mbpreally, i don't have anything open, stop jumping around03:06
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: HELL, isn't that what I just did??03:06
chem|sttimeless_mbp: ok now I get it...03:06
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: he told me to ignore you03:06
timeless_mbpi'm going to ignore you until he tells me to stop03:06
timeless_mbpsorry, end users can't handle overload03:06
javispedrolemming mode!03:07
timeless_mbpand it's 3am!03:07
DocScrutinizerI can't handle morons03:07
chem|sttimeless_mbp: do what he said! NOW! grml03:07
* timeless_mbp goes to try to figure out what <he> said03:07
* javispedro should be doing something else.03:07
* timeless_mbp launches Irreco03:07
* timeless_mbp taps system menu03:07
pupnikthat's always a difficult thing to work out javispedro03:07
* timeless_mbp taps Download remote03:07
chem|stthe remote is stored as digibox->handan->your device model03:07
ieatlintthis is like some fun passive aggressive argument going on here03:08
myuso irreco can handle set-top boxes?03:08
chem|stieatlint: shut the fsck up!03:08
timeless_mbpthere's no Handan under digitbox03:08
chem|stmyu: no03:08
infobottimeless_mbp meant: there's no Handan under digibox03:08
ieatlintchem|st: them's fightin' words03:08
myuaw =\03:08
timeless_mbpdid you skip a step? like <clicking refresh> ?03:08
myuits still a great app tho03:08
myuone of my favorites03:08
chem|sttimeless_mbp: you may need to scroll up as it starts butt up for some reason03:08
myuI love trolling my schools displays with it03:09
timeless_mbpdigibox has:03:09
myuand its also usefull cause I lost a few remotes =|03:09
timeless_mbpatv+, division, eurovox e5100, hitachi03:09
timeless_mbpkaon, k-e2270co, maximum,03:09
javispedro.oO(And to think I got flamed when I said that having ir-tx ONLY -- no rx -- was a stupid thing to do because no end user would be able to set it up)03:09
timeless_mbpsamsung, sharp, sky, thomson, Yes03:09
timeless_mbpdid you skip a step? like tapping refresh?03:09
chem|sttimeless_mbp: you need to scroll as it starts at the bottom for some reason03:10
timeless_mbpthat's the *ENTIRE* Digibox list03:10
timeless_mbpscreen captures if you don't believe me...03:10
timeless_mbpdid you want me to tap refresh?03:11
chem|sttimeless_mbp: I open up and see sky, tata sky, topfield, vestel03:11
* timeless_mbp taps refresh03:11
chem|sthit refresh03:11
timeless_mbpno change03:11
chem|sttimeless_mbp: try scroll up AND down03:11
timeless_mbpwhat version of irreco should i be using?03:11
myudont get the older one03:12
myuits qtirreco03:12
timeless_mbpmyu: you're being ignored because i'm listening to chem|st until he tells me to listen to someone else03:12
chem|stmyu: shouldnt matter but03:12
timeless_mbpi'm using irreco until he tells me to use something else03:12
chem|sttimeless_mbp: I tell you03:12
myuwhy would you take orders from someone youve never met03:12
timeless_mbpchem|st: so what should i use?03:12
myuhe could be trolling you for all you know03:12
timeless_mbpmyu: someone will slap him for me03:13
chem|sttimeless_mbp: they may screwed with the lists and I cannot guide you to it as I dont know how the list is build in irreco03:13
DocScrutinizermyu: nah, irreco just fine here03:13
timeless_mbpchem|st: so you want me to use qtirreco?03:13
chem|stDocScrutinizer: did you find the remote and can guide him?03:13
* timeless_mbp closes irreco03:13
* timeless_mbp launches qtirreco03:13
chem|sttimeless_mbp: wait a sec03:13
timeless_mbpnow what?03:13
chem|sttimeless_mbp: you got it installed?03:14
chem|stthen go on03:14
* timeless_mbp pauses w/ qtirreco open and a blank screen03:14
DocScrutinizerchem|st: no, he's not listening, and I feel like wasting my time03:14
timeless_mbpnow what?03:14
chem|sttimeless_mbp: go qtirreco and do the same again!03:14
* timeless_mbp taps the system menu03:14
* timeless_mbp taps download remote03:14
timeless_mbpnow what?03:14
chem|sttimeless_mbp: download from DB03:15
* timeless_mbp closes dialog03:15
chem|sttimeless_mbp: there are two03:15
* timeless_mbp taps system menu03:15
* timeless_mbp taps download from db03:15
* timeless_mbp gets a totally different dialog03:15
chem|stthen Digibox.. and so on03:15
timeless_mbptap digibox?03:15
timeless_mbpok, err wtf?03:16
DocScrutinizerdamn, someone have mercy and hand him his troll-certificate03:16
timeless_mbpi see something w/:03:16
timeless_mbp1 2 3 4 hchdown chup03:16
timeless_mbpmenu <power?> TV voldown volup03:16
timeless_mbpi do not see much03:16
chem|stnow go into edit mode03:16
* timeless_mbp taps system menu03:16
* timeless_mbp taps edit remote03:16
chem|stadd button03:16
timeless_mbpnew button?03:17
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I thought you ran out of those after your last visit to tmo ;)03:17
* timeless_mbp taps new button03:17
chem|stjavispedro: I got some handy03:17
chem|stchoose a picture for your button03:17
chem|sttap the button to do so03:18
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* timeless_mbp selects a crappy picture03:18
blackthornehow can I turn the USB mass storage device mode off03:18
chem|stor just enter PVR in the top text box03:18
blackthornewith the cable plugged into my computer?03:18
timeless_mbpblackthorne: eh?03:18
DocScrutinizersafely remove on PC03:19
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timeless_mbpblackthorne: when you're in mass storage mode, your device is a *SLAVE*03:19
timeless_mbpyou have to have the master (PC) release it03:19
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: EYES TO ME! it is 2:19 over here03:19
blackthorneyes but I can't access its memory03:19
timeless_mbpthat means eject/safely remove/whatever03:19
nomistimeless_mbp: I suggest you to focus on your Remote thing  :)03:19
DocScrutinizerblackthorne: or simply what I toldya03:19
blackthornebecause after doing that03:19
timeless_mbpchem|st: ok03:19
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timeless_mbpso i gave it a picture03:19
timeless_mbpand a name03:19
timeless_mbpclick add?03:19
chem|sttimeless_mbp: now tap 'add' on the right hand side03:19
* timeless_mbp taps add03:20
timeless_mbpthere's a blank commands area03:20
chem|sttimeless_mbp: scroll to PVR and ADD THE DAMN THING!03:20
blackthorneafter unmounting the device from my computer I still can't access the device memory from the maemo terminal03:20
timeless_mbpthe commands area is blank!03:20
* chem|st gave birth... just now03:20
blackthorneit appears connected03:20
timeless_mbpdid you want me to select something in remotes?03:20
chem|sttimeless_mbp: tap the remote first (the BN59 thing on the left03:20
* timeless_mbp taps bn59...03:21
timeless_mbpthe p section has:03:21
timeless_mbppmode, psize, pause, play, power03:21
javispedroblackthorne: "unmounting" means you're using unix-like. I haven't yet mastered how to do that without replugging the cable.03:21
timeless_mbpthere's no PVR03:21
* DocScrutinizer heads out for valium and a strong painkiller03:21
blackthornejavispedro: yes, I wanted to avoid replugging the charging cable03:21
pupnikenjoy each pain free day03:22
myushit I forgot to make a backup03:22
DocScrutinizerblackthorne: there's no other way to re-connect USB03:22
myubefore installing easydeb image03:22
myuwell ill make sure to before running it03:22
chem|sttimeless_mbp: ehrm fsck03:22
* timeless_mbp busy waits on chem|st 03:22
myuoh I can make one while it dls probably03:22
timeless_mbpchem|st / DocScrutinizer : thanks for taking time to try this end user walk through experience03:23
DocScrutinizerchem|st: fsck while editing a remote??03:23
timeless_mbpchem|st: if you want, you can offer for me to listen to DocScrutinizer03:23
* DocScrutinizer [ignores timeless_mbp ]03:23
timeless_mbpbut if you do that, do him a favor and explain what went wrong :)03:23
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timeless_mbpotherwise he'll walk me through the same brick walls03:23
chem|sttimeless_mbp: to late for DocScrutinizer now...03:24
timeless_mbpok :)03:24
* timeless_mbp shrugs03:24
chem|sttimeless_mbp: do you have a picture of the remote handy?03:24
timeless_mbpchem|st: i have an n900 and the remote03:24
timeless_mbpa picture is a snap away...03:24
* timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to start the camera03:25
timeless_mbpok, my n900 has a picture of the remote03:25
chem|sttimeless_mbp: nevermind...03:28
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chem|sthave you got your remote handy?03:28
timeless_mbpbut it doesn't WORK03:28
timeless_mbpwhich is why i'm not using it :)03:28
chem|stwhat is the model number03:28
timeless_mbpwhere is the model number?03:28
timeless_mbpall it says is HANDAN03:28
chem|stbakc or battery slot03:29
DocScrutinizerHAHA, I wondered how long it'll take till finaly that question03:29
timeless_mbpHIPS1-3(HD-CL) ?03:29
timeless_mbpMADE IN CHINA ?03:29
timeless_mbpUM-4/AAA/R03 ?03:29
nomisHR-A408 sounds good.03:29
* timeless_mbp runs out of text03:29
chem|sttimeless_mbp: please look at this and figure which button is your pvr03:30
timeless_mbpnot my remote03:30
timeless_mbpmy remote ^03:30
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timeless_mbpthe button i care about is the one SW of CHv03:31
timeless_mbpor west of Time Shift03:31
chem|sttimeless_mbp: I would get through all buttons of that samsung remote and try!03:33
chem|stat least all buttons shown on the remote first load should work as labeled03:34
chem|sttimeless_mbp: you fscked your remote not me!03:34
chem|steducated guess "i" button03:35
chem|stor info03:35
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timeless_mbpi is the bottom right button of my remote03:35
timeless_mbpwell, as pictured it's top right...03:35
chem|sttimeless_mbp: or all buttons the picture diff spits in your face03:36
nomistimeless_mbp: looking at your "Handan_DVB-C_5000" file suggests, that an alternative approach would be to add "dummy buttons" to this file, consisting of - lets say - the missing codes in the 0x288* - 0x289* range. That is just a handful of codes and you might be lucky.03:36
timeless_mbpnomis: i'd kinda like a commandline tool which could just do that03:37
timeless_mbpit's a royal pain using the ui for this03:37
timeless_mbpthe editors (Both Irreco and QtIrreco) are crap for adding/editing/touching buttons03:37
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chem|sttimeless_mbp: stylus!03:37
chem|stoff to bed ladies!03:38
Texratgood night chem|st03:38
timeless_mbpgood night03:38
timeless_mbpchem|st: so03:38
timeless_mbpi tried the buttons 1..403:38
timeless_mbpwell, actually all the buttons from the remote you got me to download03:39
nomistimeless_mbp: yeah, unfortunately I am not fully up to date regarding the commandline lirc tools.03:39
timeless_mbpnone of them seem to do anything03:39
timeless_mbpso i suspect the remote you got me to install is a dud :)03:39
timeless_mbpsince even power doesn't seem to do anything...03:39
timeless_mbpalthough that might just be qtirreco sucking :)03:39
nomistimeless_mbp: uh, I don't think that I recommended any file.03:39
chem|sttimeless_mbp: then you may go with nomis idea... night all03:39
timeless_mbpnomis: <you=chem|st >03:40
nomisok  :)03:40
timeless_mbpand yes, i've considered adding ranges03:40
timeless_mbpbut really, the editor is so painful03:40
timeless_mbpand, have you used vi on the n900? :)03:41
timeless_mbpi've written apps in it03:41
timeless_mbpbut i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy03:41
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timeless_mbperr, wtf03:43
* DocScrutinizer wonders how timeless_mbp would react on finding a filed bugreport as crappy and missing any proper info, as the noise heard on this chan for some 60min now03:43
nomistimeless_mbp: lirc comes with the "irsend" commandline tool.03:43
nomistimeless_mbp: I am not sure how to invoke it properly, but that should be fairly easy to figure out.03:43
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: read the log03:43
timeless_mbpi offered things at various times03:43
timeless_mbppeople didn't ask for them03:43
timeless_mbpi asked if i should use refresh03:43
timeless_mbpi asked if they wanted a picture of my remote03:43
DocScrutinizeryou ASKED03:43
timeless_mbpi want steps to reproduce03:44
DocScrutinizeryou never did answer anything03:44
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timeless_mbpi gave as much info as i had03:44
timeless_mbpi do not know the model of my remote03:44
timeless_mbpi do not know how to find the model of my remote03:44
DocScrutinizeryou know ls though03:44
nomishey, can we stop the fighting please?03:44
timeless_mbpi can't ls my remote!03:44
timeless_mbpthe remote is dead!03:44
timeless_mbpi gave the filename03:45
timeless_mbpi asked if the file name is sufficient03:45
myudid you check the ir?03:45
timeless_mbpsomeone said yes03:45
timeless_mbpmyu: sorry, what?03:45
timeless_mbpyou have my attn, what do you want me to do?03:45
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: you know you should earn a /kick for this shit! >><timeless_mbp> i can't ls my remote!03:45
timeless_mbpi tried new batteries03:45
myuput in frech batt. and point it at your camera03:45
myuthen press buttons03:45
timeless_mbpmyu: does my n900 count as a camera?03:46
timeless_mbpif not, i can find a better one03:46
myuyeah it does03:46
* timeless_mbp opens n900 camera lens03:46
timeless_mbpblue light appears in remote03:46
myuits not dead03:47
myuwell you cant get it to work, so thats not really relevant, unless its a universal remote03:47
nomistimeless_mbp: does it work for the button in question as well?03:47
* timeless_mbp sobs03:47
DocScrutinizermyu: technically it still can be dead, if the crystal got detuned, due to impact03:47
timeless_mbpthe remote works03:47
timeless_mbpit really wasn't working before!03:48
myuhe means test the button that you need03:48
myuon the camera03:48
myuoh its working now03:48
nomisyay, even more wasted 60 minutes now  :-)03:48
timeless_mbpthis is so unfair03:48
myuwelp you shouldve listened to me in the first place!03:48
DocScrutinizerno, that is trolling at its best03:48
javispedroI just love how opensource works.03:48
myusee, done in 3 minutes03:48
timeless_mbpmyu: thanks :)03:48
timeless_mbptrust me, i've lost ~8 weeks of programming03:49
timeless_mbpi would not *intentionally* lose 8 weeks of programming03:49
myunp man03:49
timeless_mbpso... can the n900 camera be used to learn the button signals? :)03:50
* timeless_mbp wants the n900 to back up the ir remote03:50
nomistimeless_mbp: you're now morally obliged to work on understanding lirc and make tvbgone for the n900 work.03:50
nomistimeless_mbp: no, the framerate is not high enough.03:50
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: that's been discussed ad nauseum maybe 6 months ago03:50
timeless_mbpnomif you walk me through what needs to be done...03:51
DocScrutinizernomis: we (well actually I) came up with some ideas to work around that framerate issue03:51
nomisDocScrutinizer: oh? Willing to share the gist of it?03:52
DocScrutinizernomis: you can use aliasing to deduce the real signal, as it's usually repeating. You also can use bar patterns in a single frame, when holding IR directly to lens03:53
DocScrutinizerI even did a video giving some indication it might be feasible03:53
nomisDocScrutinizer: Mhm, I wonder if the proximity sensor is a) sensitive in the relevant spectrum and b) can be polled fast enough.03:54
DocScrutinizeralso ALS is way too slow03:54
nomisDocScrutinizer: where is the video?03:54
DocScrutinizerdunno if and where I published it03:55
DocScrutinizernomis: the signal baudrate of CIR is considerably low03:56
javispedro(that's what I got from point the cam to a slightly stronger than your average remote ir signal)03:56
DocScrutinizerit's just the carrier that's impossible to detect03:56
nomisDocScrutinizer: If anyone ever manages to extract IR codes with the n900 camera I'll be deeply impressed. However, I doubt the feasibility.03:56
nomisIt is way easier to hack together a small µC board, hooking an ir-detector to it and let it do the heavy lifting.03:57
DocScrutinizerI wonder if anybody (@ fcam team?) will manage to get slomo video into N90003:57
javispedroit's even easier to sit down, do nothing, and rant about why they didn't put a damn detector in the n900.03:57
DocScrutinizerall depends on what you can do to the cam chip03:57
nomis(or even use an ir transistor to try detecting the carrier frequency)03:57
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nomisDocScrutinizer: do you know which make the proximity sensor is?03:58
DocScrutinizerthat's aslo been duscussed. easily accomplished via hs-jack03:58
BCMMDocScrutinizer: are there any detailed docs on the cam itself? does it use a physical shutter?03:58
DocScrutinizernomis: nope, but obviously an ntegrated pulsed reflective IR detector, with integrated logics for controlling03:59
nomisDocScrutinizer: why "obviously"?03:59
BCMMjavispedro: the reason i wish there was a IR detector is that the tv-out lead isn't quite long enough...04:00
DocScrutinizerBCMM: no phy shutter for shure. fcam team claims the docs are available, also other cam app house sayd the same04:00
BCMMDocScrutinizer: well, what's the fastest you can take photos with fcam :)04:00
DocScrutinizernomis: from inspection with camera and looking at the schamtics04:00
BCMMdoes fcam even do video stuff?04:01
myu"video stuff"?04:02
DocScrutinizerwhatever it does, it tinkers with cam chip settings04:02
DocScrutinizeraaah BlessN900 was the name04:02
DocScrutinizerthey said N900 is the only device where you can get specs and datasheets for camchip04:03
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myublessn900 screwed up my camera sadly04:03
BCMMDocScrutinizer: oh, as in use the n900-specific bits of fcam as an example of low-level messing with the camera's chip04:03
myueverytime id engage the lens cover it would start up and crash04:03
BCMMusually that fixes itself on restart...04:04
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myuI had to restore04:05
myubut it was cool after, id dl it again because it was an easy fix04:05
DocScrutinizernomis: a chip with VDD, GND, and signal-out pins can't work like pulsing IR without integrated logic04:05
myuI think it was cause I got it off -devel04:05
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Texrathey DocScrutinizer04:06
DocScrutinizerhey Texrat :-D04:06
Texratyou seem to be having fun tonight04:07
DocScrutinizernot more than usual04:07
DocScrutinizerTexrat: what makes you say that?04:07
Texratjust a lotta chatting ;)04:08
DocScrutinizermost of it was timeless_mbp though :-P04:08
timeless_mbpirreco is such a mess :)04:08
DocScrutinizerthat's a statement we can agree upon easily04:09
javispedrolet's liven things up even more04:09
javispedroany suggested mythbusters episode to watch?04:09
DocScrutinizerooh poor mans mcgyver? I hate it, it's so.... stupid04:09
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javispedrodunno, asking04:10
javispedroI think I already watched mcgyver one04:10
timeless_mbpjavispedro: just get mcgyver04:10
timeless_mbpaccept no substitutes :)04:10
DocScrutinizertest a hanging bridge stability, but forget to fix the cables in rigid cable blocks04:10
* javispedro wanders through wikipedia episode list04:11
myuhey how do I right click in easy-debian?04:12
myugot it04:12
nomisDocScrutinizer: mhm, It is a pity that the "Reflective Optical Switch" doesn't have a proper part number. Or did I miss it? The "N1540" seems to be some coordinate for locating the chip in the device.04:12
myuyou hold the tap like in microb04:12
DocScrutinizerthey built a model, and placed it on two supports, without fixing the cables to anything rigid04:12
javispedromyu: thank god, because I was about to say "you can't".04:13
DocScrutinizernomis: yes, alas these schematics are missing part numbers for all parts04:13
DocScrutinizerN1540 is the schematics name04:14
nomisDocScrutinizer: the IR light sent out from this is modulated?04:15
BCMMgiven a good approximation to diffuse lighting (cloudy day), i wonder how hard it would be to get a 3d image by comparing a photo with and without flash...04:16
DocScrutinizernomis: low freq, like a few per second04:16
nomisDocScrutinizer: oh, then this is probably due to power saving.04:16
nomisDocScrutinizer: then I doubt that there is additional logic in the sensor.04:17
DocScrutinizersure there is04:17
DocScrutinizerwhat else would do the pulsing?04:17
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nomisDocScrutinizer: there could be some internal more-or-less passive components (like a small resonant circuit) that gets set in its frequency by the "prog" resistor. Or they are really evil and switch the power supply.04:20
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DocScrutinizerthe power supply is not a dedicated one04:20
* nomis looks for the "other end" of the BTB connector04:21
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nomisSo if that pulse indeed affects the sensing side of the sensor as well, there is indeed no chance of abusing this.04:25
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nomisfor that we'd need a datasheet  :)04:26
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DocScrutinizernomis: It has to affect sensing side as well. There needs to be a latch04:26
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DocScrutinizerI'm pretty sure the output isn't pulsed like the IR is, rather it's latched on every IR pulse and sticks to this level until next pulse04:27
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nomisgood point.04:27
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DocScrutinizertoldya it's useless for CIR detection04:28
nomisheh, this might even explain the (for me) piss poor response time when removing the phone from my ear and waiting for the UI to reappear...   :)04:28
DocScrutinizermight be, yes04:28
nomisDocScrutinizer: sorry for not immediately buying everything someone tells me.04:29
DocScrutinizerI'm quite sure it can't be significantly faster than a few 100ms04:29
pupnikany of you have a hack to make minitube more reliable with slow youtube feed?04:30
pupniki grepped around the source to find a buffer to increase but no luck04:30
DocScrutinizernomis: when I do, you usually can :-D unless I include terms like "AIUI", "IIRC", "AFAIK" or "probably"04:30
DocScrutinizer...or "I'm quite sure" :-D04:30
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nomisDocScrutinizer: I don't buy this.   :-)04:31
DocScrutinizergood boy04:31
nomisI actually wonder if that statement is not somewhat paradoxical in itself, since it included the very terms you told me to distrust.  :-))04:33
myuoh nm04:33
myuI really ought to stop looking for help, I know im capable of solving most of these issue04:33
myuI think im just scared to brick my phone04:33
DocScrutinizernomis: congrats, you passed the test04:33
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* nomis stops this line of thought and ponders hitting the bed.04:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: what did he win?04:34
DocScrutinizermy respect :-D04:34
javispedroin $?04:34
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nomisjavispedro: EUR for me please  :]04:35
DocScrutinizerI like it when people want to understand why I came to certain conclusions, and they refuse to stop asking for that info04:35
DocScrutinizerin the end that's the whole point about why such a community is fun04:36
nomisDocScrutinizer: I am still not convinced about the IR-capture-by-camera thing though, although I probably am no longer in a state to follow the argument.04:36
DocScrutinizernomis: it's a very fuzzy idea yet. There's some indications it *might* be feasible, in one way or another04:37
nomisDocScrutinizer: ...unless you manage to crank out 1000fps (maybe with a very small AOI) bright enough to see the IR.04:37
DocScrutinizerno POC though yet04:37
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nomisfrom image manipulation I know that it is possible to refocus unsharp images computationally, which strikes me as a similiar problem, but you have to know a lot about the relevant convolution kernel there.04:38
DocScrutinizernomis: given the fact we have some knowledge about the properties of the signal we expect to see, we can use some ciute filtering04:38
nomis(the captured IR signal is unsharp over the time)04:38
BCMM_nomis: you could use a filter that cut out light other than your IR to help with that04:39
BCMM_bright enough to see the ir, i mean04:39
DocScrutinizergiven the fact it's a repetitive signal, we can even do further simplifications04:39
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nomisBCMM_: mhm, you need an awful lot of light to shoot images with 1000fps, I doubt that a IR led in a as-cheap-as-possible IR would cut it.    When using lower fps with fancy filtering magic it is a different beast though.04:41
DocScrutinizernomis: then if we could also exploit side efects of the optical sensor in cam that usually are considered undesirable...04:41
DocScrutinizerwe could (theoretically) reduce the frame dimensions to 1x104:43
DocScrutinizerso reducing the needed bandwidth on video bus04:43
BCMM_nomis: yes, but reducing the noise would help. slightly.04:43
DocScrutinizerholding the remote LED directly to the lens will drastically improve S/N04:44
BCMM_DocScrutinizer: you can resize the image on the camera chip?04:44
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DocScrutinizerobviously. Video is taken at VGA or sth like that, while still shots are 2 different possible formats by themselves04:45
BCMM_oh, of course04:45
DocScrutinizerso yes, you can select different formats04:46
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nomisDocScrutinizer: depending on the camera chip it *might* be necessary to read out a very significant portion of the chip area (and then throwing away most of the information for 1x1). I am not really an expert on that, but I know that some camera sensors need that for some reason.04:46
DocScrutinizerI doubt you can select 1x1. But that's sth to check back with datasheet04:46
BCMM_i suppose i'm slightly startled that it varies arbitrarily rather than having a full-res and video-res setting04:46
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nomis(having no clue on camera chips I can only do a hazardeous guess, that it might be necessary to drain charges from the chip to avoid them influencing the interesting parts)04:47
nomisI once did linux-driver programming for these cameras: - but they put the heavy lifting of sensor control into a FPGA. Lots of weird parameters though.04:48
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DocScrutinizerstill IIRC the cam module offers exposure times of down to 1/100004:49
nomisyeah, but this does not necessarily translate to 1000fps. The cameras mentioned above did go down to 10µs IIRC, but the maximum framerate was like 100fps or so.04:50
nomis(there is a ton of infrastructure between CPU and sensor though...)04:51
BCMM_DocScrutinizer: ah, but how long does it need in between to read and reset the ccd?04:51
DocScrutinizerthat's not exactly relevant when doing a number of samples across a repetitive signal04:52
BCMM_might be using words wrong, but what i meant was "stuff has to happen between exposures, therefore framerate will be less than 1/exposure"04:52
DocScrutinizerif only you can trigger the shot down to the 1/1000 resolution precision04:53
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: you know how the old e.g. atary video digitizers for still video worked? They took 400 pixel per frame (1/60s), exactly one pixel per svan line. You had to keep the video signal steady for 640 frames so the digitizer was able to grab the whole image04:59
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DocScrutinizerCIR signals are similarly steady over time05:00
nomisDocScrutinizer: do you remember that I think the first iphone produced massively warped videos, because they did exactly this?   :-)05:01
nomisi.e. exposing/reading the sensor line by line.05:01
BCMM_you mean photos of moving things?05:01
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: photos aka still video05:01
BCMM_there are some spectacularly wrong iphone pics of spinning things05:02
nomisBCMM_: or was it photos? I don't recall exactly.05:02
BCMM_DocScrutinizer: anyway, you lost me with that arguement, either because i don't know much about cir or because i should sleep05:03
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: CIR is sending a repetitive signal, means it repeats in a constant manner in a fixed framerate. You can sample such a signal to arbitrary detail, by picking just one sample out of every period05:04
BCMM_aah, i see05:05
nomis...hoping that the capture framerate is relatively prime to the IR "framerate".05:05
DocScrutinizerwell, precision is limited by sum of all jitter you got in your set05:05
BCMM_pattern repeats, so you can take a lot longer than the length of the pattern to record the pattern05:05
nomisBCMM_: oh wow  :-)05:06
nomisHmm, my DSL just reconnected, telling me that I urgently need to go to bed. It is 4.07am. Night all   :-)05:07
BCMM_ someone linked this one here a few weeks ago, i think05:07
DocScrutinizernight nomis05:07
BCMM_hah, i've done that too05:08
BCMM_sadly, there's cable here...05:08
BCMM_but i'm off too05:08
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DocScrutinizerW*T*F??! snow effect js :-(((05:09
* DocScrutinizer adds to his blacklist05:10
DocScrutinizernomis: of course, like with any oscilloscope, when using sampling you need to tune your sampling freq to the "framerate" of the observed signal05:12
DocScrutinizernomis: there our knowledge about what we expect to see comnes in05:13
DocScrutinizerwe can tell from our results if we tuned correctly or not05:13
DocScrutinizerin fact, as we know about the complete limited set of possible input signals, we can distinguish between them by much less precise probing results then what I sketched above05:16
DocScrutinizera sampling with a sample freq of 50/s and a sample window of maybe 1/100s might be perfectly sufficient to distinguish what signal we got05:17
DocScrutinizerit happens 50/s freq and 1/100s apperture time is what we might get with ordinary video05:18
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DocScrutinizerbtw the task to detect a CIR in a video is much like the GPS filtering. You compare what you got to all possible signal patterns by running the predefined patterns thru correlators together with the video. The correlator with the highest output is indicating what input signal you got - it's the same one as that used to create the reference pattern you fed to that correlator05:28
DocScrutinizercreating reference patterns can be done by a model of the cam chip, feeding it with original CIR signals05:30
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DocScrutinizers/original/synthesized "original"/05:31
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: creating reference patterns can be done by a model of the cam chip, feeding it with synthesized "original" CIR signals05:31
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lcuknomis, i missed scrollback, but did bcmm indicate that the camera on n900 can be forced into a REALLY low resolution with high framerate?05:51
lcuksomething like 16*16 or 32*3205:51
lcuklike a mouse sensor?05:51
lcukinitial testing I tried I couldnt get the camera to work by specifying a framerate (the n810 used to let me)05:52
myudoes anyone have a favorite web browser for the n900?05:54
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lcukmyu, yes, microb05:56
DocScrutinizerlcuk: that's what we were discussing. BCMM had doubts it can be done05:57
DocScrutinizerlcuk: the framerate is probably contrlled by OMAP's cam interface05:58
DocScrutinizerand range limited by both OMAP cam interface and cam chip specs05:59
lcukDocScrutinizer, scrollback indicates its for IR reading06:03
lcuki have a different purpose06:03
DocScrutinizeryep, but the method intended is similar06:03
lcukyip, hence me perking06:03
DocScrutinizerlow resolution and high framerate06:03
DocScrutinizeranyway, the main camera is controlled via I2C-3, the bus that also has accelerometer and BTFM06:04
DocScrutinizerwe'd need the datasheet to understand how to talk to this I2C set of registers06:05
DocScrutinizernot how, rather *what*06:05
DocScrutinizerlooks rather straight forward, once we got the cam module datasheet06:06
DocScrutinizervideo data interface is a 2 line differential (clk+/- and data+/-)06:07
lcukDocScrutinizer, or just talk v4l06:07
DocScrutinizerquite certainly you need to configure OMAP hardware to meet the particular signal06:08
lcukthe n810 camera surprised me with its flexibility06:08
lcukjust iwth normal interfaces06:08
SpeedEvilThe front o the back ds?06:08
lcukSpeedEvil, main camera06:08
SpeedEvilthe back camera is sort-of-there06:09
lcukthe one with flash06:09
SpeedEvilnot a great datasheet06:09
DocScrutinizermeh, dead06:09
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DocScrutinizerahhh finally06:10
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myuhey anyone seen a bug on easye debian06:20
myuwhere the packet installer just doesnt work06:20
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ok, if it maters: the data clk is generated by cam module, not by OMAP06:20
myuunless you do it from the n900's menu06:20
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: no that can't be real X-P : ""About electrical shutter, will be effected 2 flames after.""06:41
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you got any useable data in that table on p.9-11 ? I only got empty cells, except those in yellow06:43
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DocScrutinizertbh that's one of the ugliest most crappy ds I ever seen06:44
SpeedEvilI've not really looked at it in more detail06:47
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DocScrutinizeralso I'm painfully missing that embedded object "Command Setting_v1.7.xls"06:49
SpeedEvilnot seen any more than the bare doc06:49
DocScrutinizerhah, actually you can "activate OLE object" to make it pop up. I *hate* .doc06:56
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Termanagood morning06:56
DocScrutinizermorning Termana06:59
DocScrutinizerFormula is as follows06:59
DocScrutinizerVCO [MHz] = EXTCLK * CKVAR_DIV / 306:59
DocScrutinizerCCP2 [Mbps] = VCO / { ( LVDSCK_DIV + 1 ) * ( VCO_DIV + 1 ) }06:59
DocScrutinizerspck [MHz] = VCO / { ( SPCK_DIV +1 ) * ( VCO_DIV + 1 )07:00
DocScrutinizerFrame rate [fps] = { spck / ( IA_H * IA_V ) } * 1,000,000  ( IA_H and IA_V : H and V values of Image area readout with blanking. )07:00
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: 10-1 Picture size setting07:02
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DocScrutinizerH_COUNT[10:0] -> selection of  horizontal clock count including blanking07:04
DocScrutinizerV_COUNT[12:0] -> Selection of total Vertical line count including blanking. Setting rage is from 84d to 2730d.07:05
DocScrutinizerso minimum frame size is 84 lines07:06
DocScrutinizerlcuk: seems ok for mouse07:06
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: max exposure time is obviously frame time - 4 lines. So for long exposure times you might want to reduce the clocks as of above formula07:27
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DocScrutinizerI jusz wonder if this indigestible crap looks any better whn opened in M$ word, than it does in OOo07:29
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: SpeedEvil: you might be interested in Stingray_sensor_mode_setting_calculator OLE object2 in SMIA95_AF_camera module_APL_09051108:07
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SpeedEvilnow asleep though08:14
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slonopotamushuh. /me got X not starting on desktop due to clock skew08:18
RST38hmorning slonopotamus08:21
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slonopotamusRST38h: smth like that, yep08:22
RST38h"Why 10% of Your Friends on Twitter and Facebook Will Be Nonhuman in Five Years"08:23
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RST38h(and then they provide a lame explanation =))08:24
* slonopotamus has neither and doesn't care08:25
RST38hSame here08:25
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DocScrutinizerwhat's twitter and facebook?08:29
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RST38hsome websites08:30
DocScrutinizerguess I don't care :-D08:30
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: websites for those who failed to setup irc client :/08:31
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: thanks for pointing me at that datasheet anyway08:31
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: yeah, that's what they told me08:32
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: help08:35
timeless_mbphow do i find an branch in HEL?08:35
slonopotamusso 1. kdm has ServerTimeout and kills X if it didn't start in that time. 2. i have ntp-date run on boot 3. i enabled parallel startup so X and ntp-date run in parallel. 4. for some reason, systoh was = no so system clock wasn't synced to bios. 5. one lucky day X didn't startup anymore because bios clock was > 1 min late so ntp-date advanced it too much so kdm thought timeout expired and killed X :D08:35
timeless_mbp is useless08:35
* pupnik sets out tea08:36
RST38hslono: kinky08:36
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pupnikslonopotamus: hooray for programmers assuming a correct clock08:37
pupnike.g. pandaboard doesn't have a rtc08:38
RST38hpupnik: Some things, you just have to assume to be working08:38
* RST38h has a horror story about the clock btw08:38
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slonopotamusmeh, network issues08:40
slonopotamusdid you receive my msg about kdm? :)08:40
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slonopotamushehe :)08:41
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RST38hSee this:
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RST38hWhat this little page isn't telling you is that once in a while your CX:DX will tick backwards08:42
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DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: haha, nice story :-D08:44
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: maybe i should post it to dailywtf :)08:46
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: actually there's a reason for the suggested sneaking sysclock adjust mode08:47
DocScrutinizerone of the cases where it actually bites you to do what's deprecated: adjust systime hard08:47
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: err... the point is that i _didnt_ adjust system clock08:49
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: so over time clock shift became bigger08:50
DocScrutinizeryou didn't, but ntp did08:50
slonopotamusuntil one day when it grew up to ~ value of ServerTimeout :)08:50
DocScrutinizerbzzzzzz, you're out08:50
DocScrutinizersystem clock, not hw clock08:50
slonopotamushow you want to adjust time without... err... adjusting it?08:51
slonopotamusi did adjust system, but didn't touch hw, right08:52
DocScrutinizerthere's a pull-it mode08:52
DocScrutinizerlemme mangrep it for you08:52
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: i just ran ntp-date/ntp with default settings08:53
slonopotamusthe only non-default thing here is enabling of parallel service startup08:54
DocScrutinizerIf       the  -x  option is included on the command line, the clock will never be stepped and only slew corrections will be       used.08:54
DocScrutinizerman ntpd08:54
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DocScrutinizermanaging times/clocks in unix is an art08:55
DocScrutinizer...that very few seem to master08:55
slonopotamusi just used default init script08:57
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: actually it's kdm bug. kernel does provide functions for _relative_ waits that are not affected by system time changes09:03
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: you wouldn't believe it but most init scripts are wrong on this09:03
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DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: e.g. it's really a bad idea to do a hwclock --systohc on system shutdown09:04
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: that's exactly how i fixed this bug09:05
DocScrutinizerbetter have a cronjob to do something along the line >hwclock --set `netdate`09:05
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: why it's bad?09:05
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DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: because your system clock can be (and more often than not actually is) off by some seconds when shutting down09:06
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: afaik, i have ntpd on that box so it should correct.09:07
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: and it is a desktop with on/off ~ twice a day09:08
DocScrutinizernow hwclock updates /etc/adjtime to ""correct"" the perceived skew of hw clock (which actually is a skew of sysclock), which results in massively incorrect time after it got ""adjusted"" - on next boot09:08
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DocScrutinizeras an absolute rule, you MUST NOT use hwclock --systohc on any occasion other than when you *know* you synced sysclock at this very second (or at least minute)09:09
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.09:09
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: sysclock is constantly corrected by running ntpd, i don't see why you expect massively incorrect time09:10
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DocScrutinizerthat's why a hwclock --set `netdate`  is way better09:10
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DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: if your network is down you'll probably not get much of your ntpd09:11
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DocScrutinizersee, this is the scheme used in most initscripts, and it *usually* works as everybody assumes same as you do. ""my sysclock is correct"". If so then probably you'd never need any hwclock. It's the one time in a year when it's NOT correct on system shutdown, that will start an ever growing mess09:13
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: well, i just told you what problems i got _without_ systohc sync :)09:13
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DocScrutinizerand I told you how to handle it in a better way than most distros do by default09:14
slonopotamushwclock is needed to get some time until first clock sync is done09:15
DocScrutinizerwhy set hwclock to sysclock, assuming you had a sync to ntp recently? When you as well can use ntpdate (or ntptime/nettime whatever) to make *sure* hwclock is set to a correct time09:15
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: do you think I need to learn about what for we need hwclock09:16
slonopotamusgentoo does hctosys very early in boot process09:16
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NooBmonk3yurggghhh its early09:17
slonopotamusand without hctosys we'll have zero time without network, no?09:17
NooBmonk3yand snowy.......09:17
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: what's your problem with --hctosys?09:17
DocScrutinizeror are you still teaching me?09:18
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: original one :)09:19
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: hw clock became too much late09:19
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: and i suspect things would be even worse if hw clock has ahead of actual time09:19
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DocScrutinizersorry, you completely lost me09:19
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slonopotamus_DocScrutinizer: so, you suggest never writing to hardware clock?09:22
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DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: does >hwclock --set `ntpdate`  look like I suggested that?09:23
slonopotamus_okay :)09:24
DocScrutinizerhave a cron job that executes something like that once a day09:24
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slonopotamus_still, it is funny :P09:24
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DocScrutinizerthe major annoyance is ntpdate has been retired, and ntpd -q isn't exactly a full replacement09:36
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DocScrutinizerseems nowadays there's no more command to get ntp-time without same moment messing around with sysclock09:37
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DocScrutinizerso the contemporary approach would be a >ntpd -qg && hwclock --systohc; in crontab09:39
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DocScrutinizerannoying, really09:40
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* NooBmonk3y yawns09:42
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NooBmonk3yMorning Termana09:45
Termanamorning NooBmonk3y09:46
NooBmonk3yits oh so quiet in here :|09:46
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* NooBmonk3y w00000000ts09:48
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG, you are a legend09:48
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NooBmonk3yused your control/rules and it now packages!09:48
NooBmonk3yi think there may be something borking the rules or control file in qt creator 2.0.1 :|09:48
NooBmonk3y(well 2.1.0 RC)09:49
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NooBmonk3ywb doc09:49
NooBmonk3yoff to work09:49
NooBmonk3yhave a good day alls09:49
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DocScrutinizermeh, dsl down and killed my linux network subsystem, had to do an init.d/network restart09:51
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meceGaah! Why doesn't this thing work? Could someone explain how Component.onCompleted: positionViewAtIndex should work? This thing does nothing. NOTHING!10:27
* mece is talking about qml, in case you wondered.10:27
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thpmece: #qt-qml might be a good place to ask question :)10:32
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mecethp, oh there's a specific qml room :D10:41
mecethp, thanks10:41
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DocScrutinizerwtf is qml?10:56
meceDocScrutinizer, :P11:03
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DocScrutinizer51yeah, I guess I will get, like, infinity/26^3 hits11:05
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meceDocScrutinizer51, I made it "feeling lucky" so you wouldn't have to scroll :)11:20
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javehow would I go about making a n900 access internet through a windoze pc connected over usb?11:26
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Venemo_N900usb networking?11:27
DocScrutinizererr, isn't that #1 FAQ and hasn't been answered to yield a convenient solution a single time yet11:28
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javeok Thanks11:29
javesorry then11:29
Appiahjave: if you install the ovi suite you can get a "connect to internet" button :)11:29
DocScrutinizerit seems it's not really possible11:29
nidOAppiah: thats not what he needs11:29
Appiahoh the n900 using the host comp for internet11:30
Appiahthink I did that on linux O_o not windows11:30
javeit ought to be possible at least, I did it on linux11:30
javewindoze I dont know so well11:30
chem|stgooooooood morning viehhet... wrong channel...11:31
DocScrutinizerit will not pan out with maemo's connection manager11:31
javeok, but doing some ifconfig magic in a script would be fine on the n90011:31
Appiah <-- is that it?11:31
Appiahor something in the right way...11:31
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DocScrutinizerusually I want people talking other people into USB networking, just to find them coming back asking "now I can ping internet via PC, but still microb/HAM/whatever is asking me to start up a network connection"11:32
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: usually I watch people talking other people into USB networking, just to find them coming back asking "now I can ping internet via PC, but still microb/HAM/whatever is asking me to start up a network connection"11:33
Appiah ?11:34
DocScrutinizerAppiah: yep, you won the prize :-D11:35
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togglesAppiah: the prize is an iphone11:37
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: did that remote disaster work out yesterday?11:40
DocScrutinizernope, he fixed his original remote :-P11:41
Appiahdo want11:41
Appiahso I can sell it11:41
chem|stAppiah: I sat between two iphone people (which actually got iphones) yesterday... no fun11:42
crashanddieyay, it's iPhone users bash time11:43
DocScrutinizerit's iPhone users bash season11:44
DocScrutinizer...since years now11:44
crashanddieLet's bash n900 users11:44
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DocScrutinizerthere's too few of them11:45
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crashanddie"Haha, I can crack WEP networks with MY N900, you silly iPhone user! Look, let me just drop to the terminal and run aircrack... oh shit, is there a power outlet somewhere?"11:45
alteregoWe love minorities here!11:45
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crashanddie"Haha, I have the source code to the whole operating system on my N900, you silly iPhone user. I hope you enjoy your locked down system." iPhone user: "HAM source code?" N900 user: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"11:46
chem|stmv 'find / -type f -iname *iPhone*user*' /dev/null11:46
DocScrutinizererr wut? what's wrong with HAM source?11:46
alteregoHAM is open. Just links with closed crap.11:47
crashanddie"Haha, everytime Apple releases an update for the iPhone, you have to pay for it!" iPhone user: "PR 1.4?" N900 user: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"11:47
DocScrutinizerI'm happy with pr1.211:47
crashanddiesame here11:48
alteregoI'm pretty happy w/ 1.3 tbh11:48
chem|stcrashanddie: we have apt... there will be 1.4...11:48
DocScrutinizerjust sucks all my apps can't get any updates since PR1.311:48
crashanddie"Haha, iPhone users are morons because they pay for all their apps" -- Cuz we all know how good we've treated are game devs... And btw, Angry Birds, ovi store. 'Nuff said.11:48
DocScrutinizereven worse, I couln't re-install them11:48
infobotcrashanddie meant: "Haha, iPhone users our morons because they pay for all their apps" -- Cuz we all know how good we've treated are game devs... And btw, Angry Birds, ovi store. 'Nuff said.11:49
chem|stmore important to me, properly integrated email client with gpg support and threading, autoconnect for wpa-enterprise networks11:51
DocScrutinizerboth not on my agenda, but I can understand it11:52
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chem|stsince 1.3 I get this "no known networks in range" crap everywhere I know more than one network11:52
DocScrutinizerwe should start a wikipage "why we refused to install PR1.3"11:53
chem|stDocScrutinizer: next time I gonna flash I will do 1.2 again11:53
DocScrutinizerchem|st: no luck. As mentioned above I think you can't install most of the apps anymore, for PR1.211:54
DocScrutinizerat least all those in extras-testing and *-devel11:54
chem|stDocScrutinizer: nice11:54
DocScrutinizernokia missed again to split the repo properly11:55
chem|stDocScrutinizer: but you arent able to use it as carnavigation with 1.3 anymore11:55
chem|stdoing version releases looking like SSU is not a good idea11:55
edheldilDocScrutinizer:  do you mean that even after reflash to PR1.2, you are still unable to install apps?11:55
DocScrutinizerrationale: "-devel (and -testing) are not supposed to be stable, so what use is there in keeping old versions for PR1.2?"11:56
DocScrutinizeredheldil: yes, exactly11:56
DocScrutinizerthis doesn't apply for maemo-extras, but I think it appies for most pkgs from *-testing and *-devel11:57
edheldilah, you mean that there are not packages in testing and devel for PR1.211:58
DocScrutinizerplus Nokia still doesn't offer to do a proper *FULL* backup, as in dd if=<rootfs> of=<uSD-img-file>11:58
DocScrutinizeredheldil: yes11:59
edheldilhas not somebody created boot menu backup for this?11:59
DocScrutinizeryes, but that's neither official nor in extras12:00
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DocScrutinizernor is it properly tested and certified to work12:00
DocScrutinizerfor all I know12:00
jacekowskicrashanddie: it's caled socket in civilised world12:01
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chem|stdd'ing a nand isnt a good idea12:01
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, you can't dd mounted filesystem12:01
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DocScrutinizerso I could try if it works for me, and find myself with a broken PR1.2  and have no way to restore it12:01
edheldilchem|st:  why?12:01
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I know12:02
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DocScrutinizeredheldil: you can, but you'll get a mess12:02
chem|stedheldil: + what jacekowski said, reading may not be that a problem but writing it will mess the bad sectors12:03
DocScrutinizerdd is like a snapshot. You know from photography the target shouldn't move while taking the snapshot12:03
jacekowskiasuming that badsectors are not going to move12:04
jacekowskiand i'm pretty m12:04
edheldilnand manages bad sectors internally, the os won't get them, will it?12:04
jacekowskipretty sure that badsectors are done in controller in omap12:04
jacekowskinot in software12:04
jacekowskiedheldil: nah, badsectors are not touched by nand itself12:04
chem|stjacekowski: that will change over time12:04
jacekowskiit's up to controller or software12:04
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: WUT?12:05
DocScrutinizerno bad sectors aware controler there12:05
chem|stjacekowski: that sounds more like flash what you are talking about12:05
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DocScrutinizernand basically has no controller12:06
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jacekowskithere is controler in omap12:06
chem|stjacekowski: make up your mind12:06
jacekowskithat talks to onenand12:06
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HRH_H_Crabhi, i wonder if someone can help. i have the enhanced kernel for power users installed (at least its appearing in my list of uninstallable packages, and i know its been working in the past)12:07
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HRH_H_Crabbut it doesnt seem to be my current kernel.12:07
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HRH_H_Crabi have no ipv6 module or iptables modules12:07
HRH_H_Crabcan anyone assist?12:07
jacekowskiuninstall it12:07
jacekowskiand install again12:07
HRH_H_Crab(if i look at the list of installable packages i cant see any kernels)12:07
HRH_H_Crabi'll give that a try!12:07
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HRH_H_Crabjacekowski: hmmm12:13
HRH_H_Crabit says it cant uninstall it...12:14
meceis it just me that thinks kim jong-il couldn't come up with a good name for his kid so he just named him what they had been calling him all along: young one12:14
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ynavehye !12:18
ynavesomeone tried to setup on ubuntu 10.10 ? i'have alway same error : Error opening terminal: xterm.12:19
ynavebut xterm is installed12:19
pupnikI'm going to have some fake-crab ramen and think about that12:19
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HRH_H_Crab"can only be uninstalled with the application Deinstall-kernel-power"12:21
HRH_H_Crabbut i cant find that application anywhere?!12:22
pupnikubuntu breaks a lot of things12:22
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pupnik   ynave, folowing this i hope12:23
ynavepupnik:  already following :s  that was good with previous ubunt version12:23
chem|stynave: get a proper distribution...12:24
ynavelol no troll please :)12:24
chem|stynave: that was no trolling... I am for real!12:25
ynavewich proper distribution ?12:25
pupnikwhat about setting debug output for the sh script12:25
chem|stynave: starter or expert?12:25
ynavemaemo give package to setup for ubuntu/debian, just easy :(12:25
ynavemiddle expert12:25
ynavebut ubuntu is good for working, etc.. I've no time to setup everything now12:26
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chem|stand you are not tired of ubuntu yet?12:26
ynavelittle yes12:26
ynavebut... time is money12:26
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chem|stfor productive environments you may use debian12:27
chem|stonce setup you may leave it running in that state until someone needs newer libs...12:27
pupnikwould set +e help debug the script?12:28
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pupnikchem|st: yes, with debian there are less people working to break my distro12:28
ynaveyes I love debian from many times12:28
ynavehum just find a workaround :
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pupnikoh nice12:29
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chem|stpupnik: that is what ubuntu is looking like... just yesterday I was told that once upgraded with apt-get the auto-updater refused to work anymore... another very good reason to not use it12:30
ynaveerf does'nt work :s12:31
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pupnikit's kind of like ubuntu is the debian for kids who want to change the world12:32
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pupnikand debian is like the guys 20 years older going 'wut?'12:33
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rtyleranybody had their power connector fail?13:00
rtyleron an n900 that is13:00
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chem|strtyler: please elaborate13:00
rtylercrap like that :(13:01
chem|strtyler: I did not and most of n900 didn't but people crying are more common to be in public than people just having a working phone13:02
rtyleroh, I know13:02
rtylerit's certainly an issue IMHO, I'm just wondering how fast people got it turned aroun13:02
rtylerlooks like being in the US puts me in a tough position13:02
chem|strtyler: it is a design flaw that it is soldered to the pcb but I guess that is another weird USB standard compliant feature!13:02
rtylerthis guy has a good overview of the design failure:
rtylerI didn't get my degree in EE, but even I know not to surface mount connectors like this13:03
rtyler*especially* the bloody power connector13:03
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Termana"this guy" being Texrat13:04
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rtylerI idle too much in here to do proper name recognition, I figured there'd be a chance he'd be lurking 'round here13:05
chem|stTermana: had it on my text line and missed to send before looking on other stuff ;)13:06
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chem|strtyler: I read it only from tabulacrypticum not from IRC...13:07
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Venemo_N900HRH_H_Crab: you can't uninstall it from HAM, you need to run its deinstall thingy from the app menu13:08
chem|strtyler: as I said, I guess it is a USB standard compliance due to it is being a charging port13:08
rtylerbetter back up to my memory card since it's clear that this thing is not going to recharge before repair13:08
rtylerchem|st: USB spec says everything has to be surface mounted on the board?13:08
chem|strtyler: I don't know but I guess they would have done it otherwise clamp mounted like everything else in the device13:09
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chem|steverything but the microusb connector is with springs even the antennas13:10
chem|stwell buttons are not but I guess that is ok13:11
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rtylerwell, it'd be nice if this backup app worked properly :(13:14
* rtyler starts crying13:14
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HRH_H_CrabVenemo_N900: i think i fixed it13:18
HRH_H_Crabi actually had to run some scary commandline deinstaller which popped up a "this can brick your device" warning13:18
HRH_H_Crabbut it all worked o.k.13:18
HRH_H_Crabonce that had completed i was then able to reinstall the poweruser kernel13:18
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BCMMthe term "brick" keeps getting woolier13:19
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BCMMtime was, it meant you had an expensive paperweight. on the n900, some people just mean "time to reflash again"13:19
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TermanaBCMM, soft brick vs hard brick. Since you really can't brick the N900, it's always going to be an assumed soft brick13:20
TermanaUnless the person states otherwise13:20
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BCMMcan't brick? try overclocking.13:21
BCMMbut yeah, originally i think it meant break permanantly in a strictly softwareish way13:21
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BCMMlike overwriting an ibm-compatible's BIOS eeprom with a picture of a kitten13:22
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TermanaTechnically you could overwrite the N900's bootloader and then you would have a "hard brick" (since most people wouldn't have the appropriate JTAG equipment to fix this laying around)13:23
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jacekowskiTermana: bullshit13:25
jacekowskiTermana: you can't brick n90013:25
jacekowskiTermana: N900 rom can boot from usb13:25
rtylerthat sounds like a challenge13:25
jacekowskiTermana: and using that you can flash it without jtag13:25
SpeedEviln900 internal ROM?13:26
Termanajacekowski, hmm ok.13:26
TermanaTested this?13:26
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, coldflash is and next ~200 posts, or
jacekowskiread that log13:26
SpeedEvilThat is - on-die RAM - not onenand, or ...13:26
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: there is ROM inside of omap13:26
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: with small bootloader13:27
SpeedEvilyes - I know - on-die13:27
SpeedEvilIt may not be enabled without pin-strapping I meant.13:27
Termanajacekowski, hmm ok - well that's nice to know13:27
SpeedEvilIf it shows Nokia USB, it can't be the boot rom13:28
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: it can be13:28
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: it's in one of TRMs13:28
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: that if efuses are still OK it will use id's stored there13:28
jacekowskilike VID/PID/names13:28
jacekowskionly way to hard brick n900 is probably overclock it a lot13:29
jacekowskior water13:29
SpeedEvilOr to coldflash >100000 times13:30
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jacekowskiusb connector should last longer13:31
jacekowskibesides, you can always unplug it on host side13:31
jacekowskiand n900 boot rom is reading first couple blocks looking for valid bootloader13:31
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jacekowskiand then will continue to look for other boot devices13:32
jacekowskiso you may end up having to boot phone from serial port13:32
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rtylerI suppose the n900 is the only maemo powered device on the planet isn't it?13:34
noobmonk3yrtyler n800, n810 etc?13:34
infobotrtyler meant: I suppose the n900 is the only maemo powered phone on the planet isn't it?13:34
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rtylerI played with an 800 a while back over a weekend, terribly underpowered IMHO13:35
rtylereven the n900 is a little sluggish these days13:35
rtylersome of Nokia's new Symbian^bleh hardware is pretty stellar though13:35
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noobmonk3ylcuk: is having two bacon baguettes greedy?13:37
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lcuknoobmonk3y, not at all.13:37
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noobmonk3ylcuk:  good good....... i'll inform the boss that i'm not a greedy ... so and so13:38
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pupnikwhat hardware exactly rtyler13:41
rtylerthis guy
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noobmonk3ywritten in april 2010...........13:44
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pupnikyep noobmonk3y13:44
rtylerthe device looks snazzy in most respects, except that whole symbian thing :)13:45
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noobmonk3yrtyler: have you tried symbian 3?13:45
pupniki had no problems using it - i liked symbian3 just fine13:45
pupnikjust not a fun OS to play with13:45
noobmonk3yso why 'except that whole symbian thing'?13:45
noobmonk3yoh fair do's13:45
rtylerI don't doubt that it's usable, but I bought the n900 specifically to support maemo and Linux on my phone :)13:46
noobmonk3ynot all devices suit everyone :)13:46
rtyler(having python around has actually been highly useful)13:46
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rtylerI suppose this means until I get my n900 repaired I'll be doing a lot less goofing off on the train to work and more reading :/13:50
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BCMMhave you been port-scanning those accidental winXP ad-hocs on the train :)13:51
rtylerheh, I've considered it :)13:52
BCMMhave you seen "free public wifi"?13:52
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rtylercertainly, and some hp-setup13:53
rtylerand some ZWIRE*13:53
chem|stI like to send weird pictures to all those people leaving their BT on...13:53
BCMMit's a sort of virus that spreads using human minds and winxp13:53
BCMMwindows xp in some configurations maintains the last ad-hoc you were connected to13:54
rtylerI wish I could flash my old Neo 1973 with a useful operating system13:54
pupnikit would be great to make all the laptops on a train start playing the same sounds at once13:54
rtylerinstead I will have to use this crap windows mobile phone with a partially messed up keyboard :'(13:54
BCMMso someone somewhere started an ad-hoc called "free public wifi"13:54
SpeedEvilBCMM: it's a windows thing.13:54
BCMMand it's spreading around the world13:54
SpeedEvilBCMM: It starts up in ad-hoc mode.13:54
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SpeedEvilI should do the backscroll reading thing. Or the more sleep thing.13:55
pupnikit's a trojan that sets up an adhoc hotspot?13:55
pupnikthat would be funny too13:55
pupnikall windows users must share their 3g13:55
BCMMpupnik: it's stupider than that13:55
rtylerpupnik: Windows XP has this thing where if there's an ad-hoc network, it'll connect to it, then next time that machine is "out in the wild" it'll advertise that same ad-hoc network13:55
BCMMpeople connect to it wanting free public wifi, and their machines maintain said ad-hoc even after the original machine has gone13:56
pupnikthat's hilarious13:56
BCMMit has actually reached multiple continents13:57
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BCMMi met it in a boring post office queue on my n900 on the same day i heard of it's prevelance in america13:57
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BCMMso it's a sorta virus that includes no executable code whatsoever13:58
rtylerlike American Idol13:59
SpeedEvilIt's more like a prion.13:59
BCMMno code, but the ability to turn things into itself...13:59
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aquatixno, it's not a virus14:02
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aquatixit's (really!) a feature of winxp14:02
aquatixnot sure why it does that though14:02
BCMMwell, it spreads from machine to machine14:02
rtylerbug == feature14:02
BCMMusing a stupid feature14:03
BCMMlike any proper virus14:03
aquatixit just broadcasts its last-used wifi spot14:03
aquatixBCMM: in that regard, true14:03
chem|stlike the safari carpet bomb14:03
BCMMmy point is really that it clearly isn't, but it fits several definitions14:03
BCMMthat isn't infectious14:04
aquatixit's a bit like dna14:04
rtylerdo you guys know how soon Nokia is supposedly going to have a meego phone on the market?14:04
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chem|strtyler: somewhere next summer14:05
* rtyler feels like he's watching openmoko all over again14:06
pupnikhow so14:08
pupnikwhen i think of how awful android 1.6 was14:09
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pupnikand yet all these mfgrs started making phones for it14:09
SpeedEvilIt was free14:10
rtylerpupnik: the openmoko project had some good things going for them with their python + gtk-based stack, then they threw it all away and started over14:10
rtylerfeels very much like Maemo -> MeeGo14:10
rtylerand in the meantime, everybody else that didn't take their eyes off the ball passed them up14:10
pupnikpoor gtk14:10
rtylerthe OSS version of MeeGo phone distribution is beyond a joke14:10
SpeedEvilIf openmoko had a clue, they could have shipped hardware for xmas 200714:10
SpeedEvilI had in march of that year a functional phone.14:11
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rtylerSpeedEvil: if openmoko had a clue, they would have done a lot of things :)14:11
SpeedEvilIt had a few bugs.14:11
SpeedEvilBut it fundamentally worked.14:11
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rtylerI have a 1973 still, I remember getting it and thinking "okay, I'll tinker with this, but it will be X months before I make a phone call? oi"14:11
SpeedEvilI am about to recycle my neo.14:12
rtylerit's just concerning, MeeGo is pretty snazzy for a netbook right now, but the phone version simply isn't there14:12
SpeedEvilInto a microwave oven controller14:12
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rtylerwhich means Maemo5 is pretty much it for the lifetime of this n900 of mine14:12
pupniki don't know if it's smart to tie meego to the flagship phone14:12
rtylerprovided I get it bloody repaired :'(14:12
rtylerpupnik: which flagship phone is that?14:12
pupnikmeego should also run on $300 phones as well14:12
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pupnikand it needs to14:13
* rtyler nods14:13
rtylerthat original $600 USD price tag for the n900 was absurd :P14:13
rtylerI only purchased after it came down to 400 in early autumn14:13
pupnikstill over 400 here14:13
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rtylerpupnik: I'm not sure there are many android phones that are under $30014:14
rtylerthe problem is Nokia couldn't carrier-subsidize the n900 at all, Americans don't like unlocked phones for some reason14:14
pupnikamericans seem susceptible to financial traps14:15
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rtylerI don't know what you're talking about14:15
rtylerbut would you like to hear about this GREAT TIME SHARE OPPORTUNITY?14:15
rtyleralso, could I interest you in some NASCAR collectible plates?14:15
SpeedEvilI want every odd microsecond14:15
BCMMshort term vs. long term14:15
pupnikeuropean telecoms also do horrible things14:16
BCMMif the phone is free upfront, it's free, right?14:16
rtylerBCMM: sounds like a question for philosoratpor14:16
pupniki ask americans how much a phone costs, and they literally answer things like only $50!14:16
rtylerphilosoraptor* rather14:16
BCMMsee also credit cards, the subprime crisis14:16
rtylerBCMM: you should see mattress sales here14:17
rtyler(if you're not American)14:17
rtylerso free sofa right? kthxbai14:17
BCMMwe get that around christmas in the uk14:17
pupnikhowever electronics prices are cheaper there14:17
BCMMon all furniture-type things14:17
rtylerindeed, which is nice14:17
pupniklet's have more currency swings.  It was like christmas when suddenly had the best prices in europe14:18
BCMMwe've been moving towards the us model of "credit is like free money"14:18
rtylerit isn't14:18
Choomnot me14:18
ChoomI've never had any debts14:18
Choomand I'm proud of it14:18
rtylerBCMM: surely somebody would have told me that while I was in school14:18
pupniki also should be making cheese14:19
BCMMChoom: well, we have compulsory debt for students now...14:19
rtylerpupnik: I support cheese, go forth!14:19
BCMMused to be possible to make the lifestlye choice to live within your means14:19
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Choomin fact, the only reason why I even have a credit card is because of online transactions14:20
BCMMbut now that means no uni or rich parents14:20
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rtylerChoom: I use a gold AMEX card for all that, it's technically a charge card with no credit line behind it14:20
BCMMwho doesn't take debit?14:20
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rtylerBCMM: I'd rather deal with a credit card company than my bank with fraud or chargebacks14:21
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rtylerholy crap, qtmoko runs on the 1973 reasonably well14:24
rtylerI might have a linux phone while the n900 is repaired after all14:24
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MohammadAGN8: excellent build quality, for a month at least14:26
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MohammadAGpart above camera is creaky14:26
SpeedEvilrtyler: have you tried shr-t?14:26
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rtylerSpeedEvil: no idea what that is, so nerp14:27
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* rtyler falls asleep14:32
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DocScrutinizerrtyler: \o/14:43
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MohammadAGX-Fade, did you get any response from the SDK team?14:46
apicHi everyone. I flashed the FIASCO image but booted instead of just flashing the VANILLA image afterwards. Can I rescue this situation somehow?14:46
apicI tried Mass Storage mount, but can't access /dev/sdc14:47
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apicWhen I try just flashing FIASCO, I somehow can't stop my N900 from booting (showing the 5 dots)14:47
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apicI use Slackware linux and flasher-3.514:48
apicI flashed with: flasher-3.5 -f -F FIASCO_IMAGE; flasher-3.5 -f -F VANILLA_IMAGE -R14:48
apicBut the 2nd time it can't find the USB device anymore...14:48
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apicNow it can't even open "First Steps", says too little storage...14:49
apicCan I partition the Flash myself?14:49
apicThe integrated MMC?14:50
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chem|stapic: just make sure the partitions are sorted like before size does not matter14:52
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DocScrutinizer51apic: flshing rootfs only is perfectly allowable14:53
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DocScrutinizer51if you want to flash eMMC as well, then flash that first, without bootning (no -R) Then remove battery to stop when done. and go on to flashing rootfs14:55
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apicOk, thanks!14:56
Triscar0i cant find "i am here" and i have added the catalogs14:56
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achipaX-Fade: ping15:00
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frank__question: why does wget appear in the fremantle repository, but not in application manager nor on the website?15:33
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DocScrutinizer"wrong" category15:36
DocScrutinizerapp mngr doesn't show the category wget is in15:36
frank__is the categorisation part of apt-get or maemo?15:37
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DocScrutinizerapt-get install wget15:37
DocScrutinizerthere's also been some red-pill mode15:38
frank__that's safe to do because it's still from the maemo repository, right?15:38
DocScrutinizerwhich afaik makes (or made) appmgr show all catergories15:38
frank__ah, so it's only apt-getting from non-maemo repositories I need to worry about?15:39
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thpfrank__: depends on how you define 'worry about'15:40
DocScrutinizernot exactly, it's apps from maemo-extras-devel you should be careful, and also apt-get upgrade usually breaks your device15:40
MohammadAGred pill was removed, at least the "matrix" way of activating it15:40
Flyser_mobileHi, I am having problems connecting to my ICQ account using the contacts plugin on my N900. Do you have a suggestion, how I can debug my issue?15:41
DocScrutinizeryes, but I *think* the file-edit mode might still work on pr1.3 HAM15:41
DocScrutinizerthough I'm not even sure if it worked in pr1.215:41
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frank__right, so only apt-get install/remove, and only extras, and that'll be safe?15:43
frank__got a N900 yesterday, loving the openness of maemo, but a little afraid of bricking the thing15:44
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DocScrutinizerno problem15:44
DocScrutinizeryou can not "brick" it15:44
pupnikgo forth young man, and hack!15:45
DocScrutinizerworst thing that can happen is you need to (cold-)flash15:45
DocScrutinizerso keep a backup of your system - there's backup app for that15:45
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DocScrutinizeruse it now, to get familiar with it15:46
DocScrutinizeralso for a restore15:46
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DocScrutinizerfrank__: and welcome to the club :-D15:47
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MohammadAGis /sbin/preinit on rootfs?15:47
DocScrutinizerwhere else?15:47
* noobmonk3y has yet to actually see a bricked device... people use that term to often, it aint bricked if you can reflash the thing, lol15:47
DocScrutinizeryou're thinking about how to recover from accidental boot?15:47
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MohammadAGso rootfs is mounted right when NOLO loads the kernel?15:48
MohammadAGno, just thinking of how maemo boots15:48
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DocScrutinizeryes, on maemo5 it's like that15:48
frank__DocScrutinizer: thanks! loving something that includes xterm with the default install :D15:48
Triscar0where can i find the anti thief tool "i am here"? cant find15:49
DocScrutinizerI'm loving it since a year now, though you hear me constantly bitching and swearing15:49
CaCO3Hi all15:49
DocScrutinizerhi CaCO315:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: that's why a full image backup is so problematic15:51
CaCO3I am playing with MohammadAGs pvrcreator application, but I get an error when I use it. So I tried to follow the example from the forum ( but even that does not work for me. Mediaplayer still does not have a splash screen15:51
DocScrutinizeryou'd need to pivot-root out of the initial /, to allow doing a proper dd15:52
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MohammadAGCaCO3, what error?15:52
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CaCO3MohammadAG: It opens my screenshot, but then nothing more happens. The terminal shows this warning:15:54
CaCO3/usr/bin/ Warning: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed15:54
CaCO3  ret =
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MohammadAGworks fine for me15:55
MohammadAGeven after a reflash15:55
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CaCO3hmm, if I interpret it right, then thats as supposed15:56
CaCO3but where is the created pvr file then?15:57
MohammadAGdo you get a file in /home/user/.cache/launch?15:57
CaCO3Nokia-N900:/home/user/.cache/launch# ls15:57                                        
CaCO3pvrcreator is missing there15:57
MohammadAGwhere'd you get then?15:58
CaCO3I renamed anothe rone from that folder15:58
CaCO3for testing15:58
DocScrutinizerwhat does pvrcreator?15:58
CaCO3it makes a splash screen, so the user feels the app quicler loaded15:58
DocScrutinizeroooh, that one15:59
MohammadAGinstall python-gobject (as a test)15:59
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CaCO3python-gobject is already the newest version.15:59
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MohammadAGand i'm assuming you're running as user?16:01
DocScrutinizerso I could replace that fsckng settings load gap clown screen that does nothing and fools me every time, by a nice fsckfinger, so I don't try to tap the button of an image16:01
CaCO3:) yup16:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, exactly16:01
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CaCO3I actually would also preffer a splashscreen instead a screenshot16:01
CaCO3and that should be possible with pvrcreator16:02
MohammadAGthat's what I do with PSFreedom16:02
MohammadAGcode is based on thp's trophae and frals's fMMS16:02
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MohammadAGoh and Jaffa's hermes16:03
MohammadAGinstall fmms and see if it works16:03
CaCO3I saw that, but do not yet understand how to implement it ino my app. So i started with pvrcreator16:03
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thpCaCO3: you just have to tell the window manager to take a screenshot of your app at a "good" time (what a good time is depends on what your app displays16:04
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CaCO3yup, i know16:04
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CaCO3but the pvr file seems not to get used16:04
thpmaybe your window id / window (class?) name does not match?16:05
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thpit could be that you also need to put the WMClass into your .desktop, I don't know16:05
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thpthe definitive answer lies somewhere in the hildon-desktop source if you have the time and motivation to dig into it ;)16:06
CaCO3it works on fMMS, but the screenshot is very low quallity16:06
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thpCaCO3: also, what about trying to improve startup time? showing your window early, delaying loading of other stuff, etc..16:06
CaCO3its python, so its slow anyway, but also I am working on that16:07
thpCaCO3: try putting your imports not at the top of the file, but only after you have created / shown your window - even if you still need to populate the window's contents16:08
CaCO3So i did a "cp se.frals.fmms.pvr", but Media Player still does not have asplash screen16:08
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trxi am trying to build an application for n900 using lazarus but am having troubles translating the headers from c to pascal, do headers for pascal exist somewhere maybe?16:09
CaCO3thp: thanks, i will try that. Also i read that the main file should be small to speed up the start. Is that correct?16:09
thpCaCO3: try it, profile and see if it works for you ;)16:09
MohammadAGthp, you just need a .service file :)16:10
MohammadAG(and of course, you have to put X-Osso-Service in the .desktop file)16:10
CaCO3does mediaplayer have that all by default?16:11
thpMohammadAG: so, h-d only works when apps are started using d-bus activation?16:11
MohammadAGthp, no, the splash screen only works when starting the app with dbus16:12
thperm yeah.. what's what i meant to write ;)16:12
infobotthp meant: erm yeah.. that's what i meant to write ;)16:12
MohammadAGdbus-send --type=method_call /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr string:"$appname"16:12
MohammadAGapparently, it shows the screenshot from where the mouse pointer is16:12
MohammadAGso the screenshot sorta open from the mouse pointer (which is invisible)16:13
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MohammadAGthp, not sure if I've mentioned this here on #maemo, but I've been thinking of making h-d use a darker colour for inactive areas, instead of a blur16:14
MohammadAGlike Symbian^3/MeeGo16:14
thpsounds good :)16:14
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CaCO3Does not work: :(16:15
CaCO3dbus-send --type=method_call /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr string:"mediaplayer"16:15
thpCaCO3: media player is "special". try with some third party app16:16
thp(because i believe it is kept in memory even when closed to improve its startup time)16:16
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CaCO3:) but mediaplayer is the example in the forum16:16
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thpCaCO3: in that case, MohammadAG should be able to help you ;)16:19
thpCaCO3: also, killing hildon-desktop every now and then might fix things16:20
trxhm, so nobody uses lazarus? :(16:20
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MohammadAGCaCO3, yes, and it works for me, not sure what's different really :/16:24
CaCO3what works for you?16:24
MohammadAGI just generated a pvr file from a 800x424 png screenshot16:24
CaCO3hmm, I guess it might be a problem when i run it asroot? (because SSh is always root)16:25
CaCO3let me try it as normal user16:25
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Triscar0why cant i find anyplace to download "i am here" theif tool?16:27
CaCO3MohammadAG: it doesn work as normal user from terminal either16:28
MohammadAGuse the icon16:28
TermanaBCMM_: This guy is kidding himself right? :p16:28
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CaCO3MohammadAG: it doesn work as normal user from terminal either, but when I start it from the menu16:29
CaCO3and it also gets shown when i stratpvrcreator next time!16:30
CaCO3it works when I start pvrcreator from the menu16:30
CaCO3instead drom the terminaöl16:31
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MohammadAGdbus-send --type=method_call /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr string:"pvrcreator"16:35
MohammadAGshould launch it with the screenshot16:36
Flyser_mobileHi, I am having problems connecting to my ICQ account using the contacts plugin on my N900. Do you have a suggestion, how I can debug my issue? maybe a log file? couldnt find one16:36
CaCO3yup that works16:36
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BCMM_Termana: wrong tab, right?16:39
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TermanaBCMM_: no actually I was saying it here so the guy didn't see it, but it doesn't matter now :P16:40
BCMM_Termana: you need to learn to use /msg16:40
Termana:p I know how to use /msg16:40
TermanaAnyway, we resolved our difference amicably.16:41
TermanaEg. He learned I was right and he was wrong16:41
MohammadAGthat's new16:42
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crashanddieTermana, what time is it in ausland at the moment?16:48
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Termanacrashanddie, in the rather boring southern part of the great ausland it is currently 1:19AM ACEST16:49
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* crashanddie grumbles16:50
crashanddiethe whole world pretty much agreed to the same stupid shit when it comes to time management16:51
crashanddiebut australia manages to have a whole state who just don't change time ever, and another one that is 30 minutes out of synch with the rest of the world16:51
TermanaAre you bagging on my +9:30?16:51
Termanacrashanddie, I think I've discussed this before, but funnily enough I've found some people over the years that I've had to actually CONVINCE that there was a time zone that had a half hour difference. The uneducated fools laughed at me16:52
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TermanaI guess I can't blame them when they probably couldn't even point out their country on a map16:53
frank__what's the location of the jobs executed by /sbin/start?16:53
crashanddieTermana, I had some guy tell me that timezones were just corporations manipulating the good people of the world to make more money (ie, make us use more electricity)16:54
BCMM_Termana: well, it is pretty weird, and there aren't many of them16:54
crashanddieTermana, he even demonstrated his theory by calling one of his (probably only) friends, one in the same timezone, but about a thousand km away (still in France), and asking him "if it was dark outside".16:55
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BCMM_crashanddie: because the Australians would use less electricity if they were nocturnal?16:55
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JaffaYay, Matan's trolling again.17:19
JaffaAnd this time it's at me :-)17:19
GAN900Love it.17:19
GAN900Jaffa the Nokia Mouthpiece.17:20
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GAN900All that critical talk is just a Put On.17:20
JaffaMe love Nokia.17:21
JaffaMe love shiny toys.17:21
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JaffaMe love Marketing's arm up my arse.17:21
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GAN900It's warm and tingly!17:21
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* MohammadAG wants the mediaplayer to be OSS17:24
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GAN900Jaffa, there is the point to be made that Nokia isn't a hive mind.17:25
GAN900Perhaps certain parties see value in the external pressure.17:25
JaffaGAN900: Pfft, you've just had your Council Borg Implants removed.17:25
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GAN900Jaffa, is that what the special debriefing session I can't remember anything about was for?17:29
* RST38h moos at GAN90017:29
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GAN900RST38h, you still suck for not being at the conference.17:34
CaCO3MohammadAG: Is there a way I can include my pvr file into the debain package? i guess the autobuilder will deny it again, as it is a binary file17:35
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MohammadAGthe autobuilder doesn't reject binaries17:40
MohammadAGand what's your app?17:40
CaCO3So can i include a pvr file into the tar.gz?17:40
MohammadAGsee psfreedom17:41
CaCO3I also read somewhere that the pvr files get deleted when you change the theme. Is thatright?17:41
MohammadAGalso see how psfreedom handles this :)17:42
CaCO3ok, thanks17:42
MohammadAGI launch PSFreedom with a shell script in /usr/bin, it checks if the .pvr file is there, if not, it copies it and handles permissions17:42
MohammadAGdon't forget to chown user:users the .pvr file in the postinst, we don't want root owned files in /home/user17:42
CaCO3you say the autobuilder allows binaries. but why did he reject my precompiled .so file? (you remember, shedskin...)17:43
CaCO3what are the roles for it?17:43
jacekowskinon-free repository17:44
jacekowskiif you want to send binaries17:44
MohammadAGit didn't reject it, you weren't doing it right17:44
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jacekowskibut MohammadAG is right17:44
MohammadAGjacekowski, it's only one PVR file17:44
DocScrutinizerfrank__: /etc/event.d17:46
frank__DocScrutinizer: ty, I'm trying to diagnose a problem with openssh without much luck - stopping the server does not kill the child connections17:47
frank__same behaviour using both upstart and init.d methods17:47
thpfrank__: i guess that's on purpose so you are not locking yourself out from the machine if you remotely stop sshd by accident17:49
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frank__perhaps, haven't run into the behaviour before tho17:49
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BCMM_yeah, that's normal17:51
BCMM_stopping the ssh server stops only new connection17:51
BCMM_meaning that it can be restarted without killing existing connections17:51
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frank__hum, only ever really used gentoo, guess I assumed their behaviour was the default. oops17:54
nomisDocScrutinizer: btw. if you're curious: These are the shutdown codes from the open source tvbgone-kit in human readable form:
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nomisDocScrutinizer: I hope I did not mess up with the conversion.17:55
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TiagoTiagohi, ny idea how i can fix  ?17:56
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jigrapis there a way to put compat-wireless into the latest maemo for n810?17:59
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JaffaCaCO3: There's no difference between a .pvr file and a .png file as far as the auto-builder's concerned.18:11
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JaMa|Offcan someone point me to sources of debian/u-boot.bin.gz.b64 used in kernel-power43 (same as power45), it's different than and I haven't found sources for diff18:32
MohammadAGprobably on matan's repos18:35
MohammadAGwherever those may be18:35
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* DocScrutinizer looks into friggin settings.desktop to find the switch to throw, to disale that nonsense pvr thing18:45
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alteregoStrange, just got offered a job from some mobile software company.18:48
* SpeedEvil imagines a van driving round developing software.18:49
alteregoWell, offered is completely the wrong word, just had an enquiry about me applying for a job there.18:49
alteregoAnyone know
jacekowskithat ussualy means they want you to make stuff you make for them so they can make money on it not you18:50
alteregoYes, that's the impression I got.18:51
jacekowskiwell, apply18:51
jacekowskigo for interview18:51
jacekowskiand see what happens18:51
jacekowskiyou don't have anything to lose18:52
alteregoI've sent them my CV,18:52
alteregoSure, my thoughts exactly.18:52
alteregoI'd rather not work for a company that do Android and iPhone development though.18:52
alteregoHe did seem to be concentrating on my Qt experience.18:52
alteregoWhich is positive18:52
jacekowskino company registration number18:52
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jacekowskion their site18:53
alteregoYeah, I'm looking at it now.18:53
alteregoThose are some awful colours.18:53
jacekowskiIncorporation Date:18:54
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jacekowski14 Oct 200918:54
jacekowskiand they had 6 directors in year time18:54
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alteregoI think I'd want a bit more security tbh18:55
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alteregoStill if I don't hear back from any one within the next week, they're at least an option. O_O18:56
alteregoI was just wondering if anyone else had had a similar experience.18:56
jacekowskii've read story of somebody working for web development company in london18:56
jacekowskisimiliar sort of stuff18:56
jacekowskinew company18:56
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jacekowskiremotely + visits to HQ18:56
jacekowskiand at some point late payments started18:56
alterego"Europes #1 iPhone Developer" that's a bold statement.18:57
jacekowskiand well, london18:58
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jacekowskinot really nice place to live in18:59
jacekowskior work18:59
alteregoI don't live there, but it's an easy 40 minutes train journey.18:59
alteregoThey all seem to be iPhone owners.18:59
alteregoNot sure I could take it :D18:59
jacekowskiwell, think about it18:59
SpeedEvil np: The Clash - London Calling.19:00
jacekowskiif you start work at 080019:00
alteregoThey're probably looking for N8 developers, as there are a few 6500 owners in the "crew".19:00
jacekowskithen you have to be in london around 0720 to get trough underground19:00
alteregoI used to have to commute 1hr 30m19:00
alteregoAnd it was half the distance ..19:00
alteregoI like waking up early ..19:00
jacekowskiwhich means you have to wake up around 0600 at latest19:00
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jacekowskiand get back home around 1830-190019:01
SpeedEvilLong days.19:01
SpeedEvilAnd expensive housing.19:01
jacekowski+ pay for your train19:01
jacekowskiwhich is like 2-3k/year19:01
jacekowskiwith underground19:01
jacekowskilondon is a bad evil place19:02
alteregoHeh, it's an option at least.19:02
alteregoWell, tbh, after looking at their site, I don't think it is an option ..19:03
alteregoI'm not that desperate ..19:03
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alteregoThey've got some pretty people working for them though ...19:03
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jacekowskigirls with big boobs?19:03
edheldilbeware of your IP, or they will try to make you unknowingly forfeit your rights to your own proggies :)19:03
alteregoThey all look really trendy.19:04
* edheldil shudders19:04
alteregoYeah, they'll probably cringe when I say I'm releasing my app FOSS :P19:05
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RST38hMeanwhile: RIM Acquires Interface Wizards The Astonishing Tribe19:23
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NooBmonk3yhmmm wheres the best place install an app? /opt/ or /usr/local/bin ?19:28
laasonenHow can I open MicroB's extension-window?19:28
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laasonenNot that. This:
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keriolaasonen: it's in... the menu?19:32
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fralsNooBmonk3y: /opt/healthcheck/ ;P19:32
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laasonenI cant find any plugin settings, from there?19:34
laasonenJust information.19:35
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laasonenkerio: Thanks, I'm blind :D19:36
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BCMM_why does maemo use cfq on mmcblk0?19:42
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slonopotamusbecause it can!19:43
BCMM_i mean, i thought noop typically made sense on hardware with no seek time?19:43
BCMM_sorry, i'm talking about the noop and cfq io schedulers19:44
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slonopotamusno seek time doesn't mean random reads are as fast as sequential :/19:44
CableTwitchQuestion... why am I getting so many invalide certificates?19:44
pavisb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL   is the command , I dont have any such targets what do I do ?19:45
paviI am following
CableTwitchSeek time is maximum time to go from outer to inner, or vice versa. Maximum time spent to find the furthest sector.19:45
paviI accepted the eula and added the respective sources.list but I cant use the apt in my shell because I didnt select any target as none are available19:46
CableTwitchUnless I'm confused, that it.19:46
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alteregopavi: type sb-conf ls -T19:46
BCMM_slonopotamus: fair enough19:47
paviI have used a interactive one to say that there are none :)19:47
pavisb-conf ls -T lists nothing19:48
paviI used sb-menu for an interactive shell19:48
alteregogutted, start again :)19:48
pavialterego, start at which point ?19:48
NooBmonk3ythanks frals  :)19:49
alteregoProbably the beginnig, try to retrace your steps.19:49
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alteregoWell, scratchbox is installed, so probably after then is "safe"19:49
CableTwitchNo-one else has experienced, sya, the ovi store throwing up invalid credentials, etc?19:50
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CableTwitchI guess its just me then.19:51
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trumeeguys, i have built the N900 kernel in scratchbox to get 'NAT' support. Unfortunately, 'modprobe nf_conntrack' is giving me an error "nf_conntrack: disagrees about version of symbol skb_copy_bits".19:56
mykhali have the nokia n900. under media player --> music --> artists, i have '1 album, 1849 songs'. all of those songs were uploaded as albums. how do i get them to be displayed in the proper albums?19:56
trumeeany idea what might be wrong?19:56
pavialterego, this was the error I got while installing maemosdk which I kind of ignored previously
paviits repeating19:57
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trumeeanybody compiled a custom kernel for N900?20:00
nidOspecifically here right now, or in general?20:01
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* NooBmonk3y wakes up20:02
NooBmonk3ylol nidO20:03
pavialterego, I have xterm installed and why isn't it able to launch ?20:03
paviI type xterm in the same terminal and it works20:03
pavidunno why that script wasn't able to launch it20:04
paviwell that step fails but I am still able to /scratchbox/login20:05
pavionly thing it says is sb-conf: No current target20:05
paviwell what happened I accepted more than 2 EULA's today and i get nothing bpph booh20:06
alteregoTo be honest I've only done a manual install.20:07
alteregoIf you're compitent I'd suggest it. Anyhow gotta dash20:07
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paviI am only looking for some targets20:08
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paviThe wiki says "Execute the commands below on the FREMANTLE_ARMEL and FREMANTLE_X86 targets. "20:09
paviand I don't have them to execute them20:09
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paviBTW I am using debian squeeze20:10
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rtylerDocScrutinizer: what were you cheering about :P20:15
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NooBmonk3ylcuk, ... what OS do you have on your multitude of devices?20:26
lcukmaemo meego winxp ubuntu20:27
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lcukNooBmonk3y, ^20:27
lcukmy body has a virus atm20:28
lcukand i cant seem to install norton on it20:28
* lcuk damn flu20:28
nidOso when you say norton you mean cancer right?20:28
NooBmonk3yhave to admit,(not using the lappies atm) missing windows for some things......... (any kind) .. ubuntu is fine, works well, just lacking the generic user satisfaction things like flash working well, adobe cs5 suite etc.......20:29
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lcukNooBmonk3y, ubuntu drives me mad everytime i use it with a really annoying windowing bug thats existed in every version i tried20:31
* lcuk will be glad to get rid of it20:31
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NooBmonk3ylcuk, great for the qt side of things, wish i had a pc that could handle it in a vm ;)20:33
trumeecan i delete /lib/modules in my scratchbox?20:33
nidOtbh iv just always happily stuck with windows on my workstation20:33
NooBmonk3yanyway... healthcheck doesnt seem to be packaging right, again lol20:33
trumeewithout bricking my scratchbox?20:33
NooBmonk3ynidO, moved so qt worked correctly lol - and it is :P20:33
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BCMM_NooBmonk3y: did you just push a version of healthcheck consisting solely of a copyright notice?20:38
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BCMM_you see, healthcheck just updated, and now dpkg -L healthcheck lists only /usr/share/doc/healthcheck/copyright20:44
BCMM_(which of course has been removed by that thing that removes docs)20:44
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MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, did you get my last two messages?20:46
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NooBmonk3yBCMM,  possibly20:48
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  no20:48
* NooBmonk3y is trying to figure out packaging20:49
trumeeHas anybody compiled a CUSTOM kernel here?20:49
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> NooBmonk3y, read last night's logs20:49
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> $(APPNAME) is Healthcheck, debian packaging forbids capitals in the name20:49
MohammadAG* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).20:49
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MohammadAGapt-get source kernel; cd kernel-2.6.28; MAKE="make -j 6" fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b20:50
MohammadAGit's that easy20:50
NooBmonk3ywtf Mo?!20:50
MohammadAGyou might want to change the 6 depending on the number of cores you have20:50
NooBmonk3yno idea what you are on20:50
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NooBmonk3yeasier for me to just remove all caps?20:51
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BCMM_NooBmonk3y: i just checked on my desktop, healthcheck_2.9.4_armel.deb is 8.0kB20:51
NooBmonk3yi'ma fixing, i'ma fixing20:52
MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, check debian/rules, install:20:52
dany_hi all20:52
BCMM_well, no it isn't. my smallest possible file is, but you get the point20:52
BCMM_dany_: g'day20:52
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MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, cd builddir && $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(APPNAME) install20:53
trumeeMohammadAG: i enabled NAT. did make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules_install. and copied the modules to N900. modprobe nf_conntrack returns "disagrees about version of symbol skb_copy_bits, Unknown symbol skb_copy_bits".20:53
MohammadAGChange $(APPNAME) to healthcheck20:53
BCMM_finally. i've been using extras-devel all this time in the hope that stuff will break20:53
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  thats greek to me20:53
MohammadAGtrumee, how did you enable NAT?20:53
NooBmonk3yjust changing all references to lower case20:53
MohammadAGusually, you make rx51_defconfig, change the .config file, make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules, then strip the modules20:54
BCMM_do i know how to read dates? has the following happened yet? 2010-12-03 17:57 UTC20:54
NooBmonk3ytoo late20:54
MohammadAGget my source file from extras-devel20:54
MohammadAG:/ k20:54
MohammadAGfix your .desktop file then20:54
BCMM_i thought not. what is it doing on ?20:54
NooBmonk3yi am :)20:54
MohammadAGthe binary will probably use the name healthcheck20:55
BCMM_it just says date, not what it is the date of20:55
trumeeMohammadAG: emabled Netfiler modules in the kernel.20:55
MohammadAGBCMM_, the build failed, wait it out!20:55
MohammadAGwhere is "the kernel" exactly20:55
BCMM_MohammadAG: i'm not sure i understand... i was just wondering what it was supposed to be teh date of20:55
trumeeMohammadAG: The kernel is in a scratchbox.20:56
BCMM_given that it's next to an event which seems to have happened in the past20:56
MohammadAGwell duh, I mean where did you enable the modules...20:56
trumeeMohammadAG: i copied the modules to /home/user on N900 and did an insmod ./blah.ko20:57
MohammadAGsigh, we're not on the same page are we?20:57
trumeeMohammadAG: seems not :(20:57
trumeeMohammadAG: ah. you mean enabled modules in the kernel?20:58
trumeeMohammadAG: i am a bit lost on what you are on about? I did a make menuconfig in my gentoo box to generate the .config.  And copied the .config over to scratchbox.20:59
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MohammadAGtrumee, that's wrong21:00
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MohammadAGtrumee, make rx51_defconfig, edit the .config file, then go on with make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules21:00
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trumeeMohammadAG: yes, i copied rx51_defconfig to .config. and edited .config outside scratchbox, copied it back to scratchbox and did  make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules21:01
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trumeeMohammadAG: so yes i did start with rx51_defconfig, if that is what you mean.21:02
BCMM_i talked to the libflac8 package maintainer. he said the issue was caused by having a non-nokia version of libsndfile, and now i have no idea who's bug the PA problem is21:02
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BCMM_(pulse links libsndfile, nokia's libsndfile doesn't link libflac)21:02
trumeeMohammadAG: what i am wondering about is that, do all the network modules need to be recompiled after NAT support?21:03
MohammadAGwhy all that?21:03
MohammadAGdo everything in scratchbox21:04
trumeeMohammadAG: ok, i will try again. i was under the impression that make menuconfig doesnt work in scratchbox21:04
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MohammadAGdon't do menuconfig!21:05
MohammadAGjust make rx51_defconfig, it will generate a .config21:05
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NooBmonk3yMohammadAG, you are becoming very authorative ;) hehe21:06
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trumeeMohammadAG: seems it is possible to use make menuconfig ,
MohammadAGas you wish21:08
MohammadAGyou'll just make it harder on yourself21:08
trumeeMohammadAG: problem is i dont know which modules to enable without looking at menuconfig :)21:09
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trumeeMohammadAG: do i use this after compilation?  for FILE in $(find . -name '*.ko'); do strip --remove-section=.comment --remove-section=.note --strip-unneeded $FILE; done21:14
MohammadAGyeah, see debian/rules21:14
trumeeMohammadAG: then make EXTRAVERSION=-omap1 modules_install, and copy /lib/modules to N900:/home/users/kernel21:17
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MohammadAGyeah, or /lib/modules and depmod -a21:19
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trumeeMohammadAG: insmod  kernel/net/netfilter/x_tables.ko returns "x_tables: no symbol version for struct_module"21:21
trumeeMohammadAG: did i bugger something up?21:23
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trumeeMohammadAG: ok, i am not going to do any menuconfig. Will recompile the kernel again, and will NOT edit .config. Will copy the modules over. Hopefully, the modules will remain virgin.21:27
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RST38hGlow-in-the-Dark Uranium Soap21:35
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trumeeMohammadAG: nope, didnt help. Copied the virgin modules over to /home/user/kernel, insmod net/netfilter/x_tables.ko returns "x_tables: no symbol version for struct_module"21:38
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MohammadAGi'll be back at night, probably midnight :P21:39
MohammadAGfriends over21:39
trumeeMohammadAG: no worries. enjoy!21:39
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crashanddie_You guys remember the schedular patch in the Linux kernel?21:54
infobotcrashanddie_ meant: You guys remember the scheduler patch in the Linux kernel?21:54
crashanddie_It bumped our VoIP/SIP server to go from 600 simultaneous calls to 1000.21:54
keriobfs as opposed to cfs^21:55
crashanddie_was that for me?21:56
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crashanddie_then I have no idea what you're talking about :P21:58
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fnordianslipanyone know how i can add the QT target in QT Creator 2.0.1 on my Mac to target QT4.7 as shipped with PR1.3?  It seems that the Nokia QT SDK doesn't support Mac.  I thought the latest madde installer would update the QT target but it doesn't seem to have done so.22:01
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trumeenicolai: was that patch for Calendar widget useful?22:03
trumeejavispedro: i have picked up the kernel compilation from last night.22:04
javispedroand? :)22:04
nicolaitrumee: just started to look at it.22:05
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trumeejavispedro: still on it. compile will finish soon.22:05
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trumeejavispedro: had some problem with "no symbol version for struct_module". but a full kernel compile i think fixes it.22:06
trumeenicolai: cool22:06
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trumeejavispedro: first casualty. insmod x_tables, returns "x_tables: disagrees about version of symbol seq_open_net"22:09
javispedroso, unless you messed up the kernel version you're building vs what's on the device, this is one module you will need to update the kernel image (or some other module) to use22:11
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trumeejavispedro: this is diff between new .config and stock,
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ioan hi, how do I check what version of libicd-network-3g-ipv6 I have installed?22:13
trumeejavispedro: notice on line 46 i have CONFIG_NF_NAT_NEEDED=y, so guess it is not a module?22:14
andre__ioan: dpkg -l packagename22:14
trumeejavispedro: if i actually flash this kernel and the device doesnt boot, is it possible to flash the stock kernel without loosing my rootfs?22:15
NooBmonk3yhmmm is there a template to file/folder structure when building apps? :)22:15
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ioanthank andre__22:16
javispedrotrumee: yes. in fact, you're able to boot a kernel without flashing it. issue here is that kernel is incompatible with existing modules....22:16
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javispedrothe solution would be to change version, add new set of modules, etc. but you end up replicating the power kernel.22:17
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trumeejavispedro: The whole reeason i am not installing power kernel is because, i had very poor pulseaudio performance with it.22:17
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trumeejavispedro: i want to be close to the stock kernel with NAT support.22:18
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trumeejavispedro: how do i flash the stock kernel, if the device fails to boot-up?22:18
javispedrothe device WILL fail to boot up because the kernel you made might be incompatible with the modules that are on the rootfs.22:19
trumeejavispedro: ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f will probably overwrite rootfs.22:19
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trumeejavispedro: i plan to create my own version and install all the modules and flash my own kernel22:19
javispedroso, no way back.22:20
javispedrobackup and cross finger.22:20
trumeejavispedro: i guess with that there will not be any module incompatbility.22:20
trumeeuh oh! doesnt sound good then . you mean i can flash stock over my own kernel without overwriting rootfs?22:20
javispedroyou can.... but if you replaced the modules...22:21
trumeejavispedro: ah! i see what you mean.22:21
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javispedrothat's what I say that ideally you should bump the version number, install modules in a different dir... etc etc22:21
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trumeeflashing will only write the image but will not install the modules.22:21
javispedrothere was a problem with that but I can't recall it atm22:21
trumeejavispedro: why does power kernel use their own flasher?22:22
javispedrothey don't, they just use the ondevice afaik?22:22
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  :)22:22
NooBmonk3yhave updated git, still no packaging luck22:23
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trumeejavispedro: what is kernel-power-flasher?22:23
javispedroprobably what calls flasher on the postinst22:24
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trumeejavispedro: can i simulate kernel-power behaviour but use my own kernel?22:26
javispedrovery probably22:26
javispedroalso, another thing to try22:26
javispedrofor reference, to load a kernel without flashing it22:26
javispedro./flasher-3.5 -l -k vmlinux -b22:26
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javispedroanother thing to try would be to load your kernel; maybe the only incompatible modules are netfilter ones22:27
javispedroso it might boot.22:27
trumeejavispedro: what will the above command do?22:28
javispedrotrumee: read flasher -h ;)22:28
javispedro-Load, -Kernel, -Boot22:28
javispedroboot it without flashing22:28
trumeejavispedro: i see it here  as well,
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trumeejavispedro: so if it doesnt flash then how does it bootup. and i should leave the /lib/modules as it is.22:29
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javispedroa) by booting it b) yes, that is what I was saying would be interesting to test22:30
trumeejavispedro: do i need to shutdown the device before running that flasher command?22:31
trumeei havent actually copied the new modules into /lib/modules, they are still sitting /home/user/kernel on the device.22:31
trumeei didnt want to mess-up the stock modules directory, so was doing insmod from my own folder.22:32
trumeeshall i leave the stock modules as it is and boot up with the new kernel?22:33
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trumeethat was quick, 100% (1706 of 1706 kB, avg. 23706 kB/s)22:36
javispedrothat's what I'm saying22:37
javispedroensure everything works, though22:37
trumeejavispedro: the dots appeared briefly, but now only the charging led is glowing. do i need to switch it off?22:37
javispedro"on" you mean?22:37
trumeejavispedro: after the kernel flash, it is now only showing the charging led. The lcd is off.22:38
trumeejavispedro: so i guess the device is not turned on.22:38
trumeejavispedro: does it mean the bootup failed?22:38
javispedroso, switch it on....22:38
javispedrolaunch flasher again before22:39
trumeejavispedro: ok, switching it on.22:39
trumeecrap. missed the flasher bit. going to try this again.22:39
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trumee a) launch flasher, b)insert usb cable, c) let the flash happen and d) wait.  And i dont have to press 'u' key. correct?22:41
javispedromostly. if you have to switch it on/off, launch flasher again22:42
trumeejavispedro: nope doesnt boot up. It shows the dots flashing for a moment, then everything goes dark.22:42
trumeeso that means the stock /lib/modules are not compatible with my kernel.22:43
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javispedrorun flasher again, hit the power button, wait22:43
javispedroif it fails to boot again there was a way to force it to skip actdead but I don'tremember that either.22:44
javispedrogetting tired :)22:44
trumeeok, the dots are going on for a longer time (this time).22:45
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trumeejavispedro: sorry for all this trouble :)22:46
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trumeejavispedro: i hope i have not corrupted  the rootfs, since i switched it off midway when it was acting dead. At the moment it is showing the dots.22:47
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javispedrothen it probably failed, unplug usb, remove battery, start normally22:50
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trumeejavispedro: yes, it is still showing the dots.22:50
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trumeejavispedro: ok, i used the power button to switch it off and switch it on again. Now it has booted up using the stock kernel.22:52
javispedroso there you have the answer: modules are not compatible :)22:52
trumeejavispedro: so, the only approach left is to go the kernel-power way.22:53
javispedroor research why they're incompatible =)22:54
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trumeejavispedro: guess, easier option will be not to do the research :p22:54
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trumeejavispedro: i suppose, i will have to back-up the rootfs before i flash my own kernel incase boot fails.22:56
trumeejavispedro: if there was a dynamic way to change the symlink /lib/modules/current, that would have been awesome.22:57
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javispedrothat rings a bell22:57
javispedroI think it was related to the problem I was mentioning earlier22:57
trumeejavispedro: i could have booted up my kernel and if it failed, on flashing stock /lib/modules/current symlink would point to the stock modules.22:58
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pupnik   [ Wow! That Was Quick… Obama Administration Deploys Scanner Checkpoints at Bus Stations (Video) ]23:54
Venemohi guys :)23:54
VenemoI attended an event today which was called "Nokia developers' club", and it was quite nice :)23:55
pupnikwhat's that23:56
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk23:56
Venemowell there was a presentation about Qt and related stuff23:57
Venemoplus a free pizza for everyone, and a cup with a Nokia logo23:57
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Venemoand also, people could talk and tell their opinions about Qt Creator and Nokia development in general23:58

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