IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-11-10

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crashanddie"Sri Lanka launches local pornstar manhunt: Sri Lankan newspapers on Tuesday published pictures of mainly women police said had acted in locally produced pornographic films, part of a court-ordered crackdown and the latest sign of growing social conservatism."00:00
crashanddieWouldn't that be a womanhunt?00:00
javispedrocrashanddie: eternal debate00:02
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keriocrashanddie: and more to the point... name?00:05
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DocScrutinizerIT LIVES!00:13
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javispedroIT DOES!00:13
javispedro... what lives?00:13
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I've already seen it mentioned in some parts00:14
javispedroDocScrutinizer: a few tweets more and you will experience the pm storm00:14
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javispedroso, Pre was similar to N900, and Pre2 is probably going to be similar to N9..00:40
javispedroomap3630, lsm303dlh magnetomer..00:40
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SpeedEvilI have that on a wishlist to go into the n90000:41
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tobis87The omap-aes driver has been fixed and hostmode is coming slowly but surely. What is next, hardware accelerated Pulseaudio and RE injection driver?00:43
javispedroit comes quiet depreciation and slow death as the next device sinks in.00:44
tobis87Depends on how many apps there will be for meego.00:44
tobis87and the security architecture.00:44
GeneralAntillesPre2 would be cool if it didn't have such a terrible screen.00:45
* javispedro agrees with GAN00:46
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GeneralAntillesAnd weren't effectively portrait-only.00:46
GeneralAntillesThat sucks.00:46
GeneralAntillesHooray, new lens is here!00:46
* GeneralAntilles runs away.00:46
* SpeedEvil congratulates GeneralAntilles on his delivery from Arissa.00:47
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tripzeron900 cannot be repaired :(00:50
tripzerobut i think they are going to replace it for free!00:50
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ds3anyone know of a low profile micro USB connector?00:55
ioanhi. is it possible to use python 2.6 or later on n900?00:55
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SpeedEvilds3: I was going to make some, never got around to it though00:59
sjkI wish that someone will make a zsh package for Maemo :)00:59
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Termanagood morning01:00
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crashanddieMohammadAG51: CoD BO gets a solid 90% approval rate in reviews, take away advertisement bias, and it's probably closer to 75, 80%01:02
DocScrutinizer51yuck, 'good morning' at 00:00:3101:02
crashanddieactually, it's only like 9AM for Termana01:03
crashanddieplus, the whole "good morning when joining, good evening when leaving" IRC internationalisation thingy01:03
javispedrowhich works01:04
Termanayeah, 9:30 for me :p Plus I was about to type what crashanddie just said :p01:04
alterego11pm here01:04
Termanacrashanddie, you reading my mind or something?01:04
javispedroalso, depending on how broken your life is 00:00 might be "good morning" :)01:04
Termanaare you*01:04
alteregoI should probably hit the hay01:04
crashanddieTermana: well, I used to live in Oz for a while, had that thing on auto-type.01:04
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Termanacrashanddie, you don't have the link for that page someone showed with it on it do you?01:05
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infobotmethinks ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
DocScrutinizer51was what you meant to say01:05
crashanddieMind reading. #maemo has it.01:05
crashanddieI've been having a couple of weeks with 3AM-6AM nights, I'm going to hit the sack early for once01:06
crashanddielater all01:06
Termanacya crashanddie01:06
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javispedroApaches Declare War On The Oracle at Delphi Over Java01:09
javispedroah, slashdot still knows how to make me laugh.01:10
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internetishardthe DST switch left all of my calendar entries behind!01:21
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internetishardUpdate automatically, is, of course, checked in the clock app... Any ideas?01:23
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olgadoes anyone have any idea if it is possible to connect to 802.1x EAP w/ TTLS/PAP on an n800? I've been googling this for the last two hours to no avail...01:26
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: i blame you01:26
javispedroolga: not with the stock software01:26
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: you sent me fmtx-faker modified fmtxd01:26
olgajavispedro: is it possible w/ 3rd party tools?01:28
javispedroolga: yes; do you know wpa_supplicant?01:28
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olgajavispedro: yep it is a conf script01:29
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javispedrounfortunately, this currently requires a lot of work01:29
javispedroyou need to patch a kernel module, then patch wpa_supplicant.01:29
olgais there a tutorial somewhere?01:29
javispedroI wrote but it assumes you know how to build Debian packages.01:30
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olgajavispedro: ok thank you for the pointers, looks like i have quite a bit of reserch to do01:32
olgajavispedro: at least i know it can be done :)01:32
tugrikevening :)01:33
javispedroolga: yes, with the entire set (including libicd-wpa) it works very well, including autoconnecting.01:33
tugrikthe Internet says the maximum micro SD size the n900 can support is 32gig - I presume this is the case?  Can't see any reference to the size in the manual - I presume because 32gig was the biggest when it came out?01:33
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javispedrothere are no microSDHC >= 32GiB01:34
tugrikhow about microSD?  I'm presuming it doesn't support microSDHC?01:34
javispedrojacekowski: SDXC =)01:35
jacekowskiwithout HC you can't go above 2 or 4G01:35
tugrikand yes, my knowledge of that market is a bit rubbish javispedro01:35
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tugrikok... more than a "bit rubbish" then ;)01:35
jacekowskiyeah just SD allows up to 4G01:35
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tugrikah, does it support sdhc?01:35
jacekowskijavispedro: hmm, it should be electrically compatible01:36
javispedrothe simple answer is that you might cards bigger than 32GiB to work but it will not be standard so some devices may or might now be able to read/write cards touched by the Maemo device (or viceversa)01:36
javispedrohum... vive le free grammar!01:36
jacekowskicurrent SD 2.0 spec works nly up to 32G01:37
jacekowskieven though SDXC itself supports more01:37
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jacekowskibut i suppose n900 could work with bigger sdxc cards01:37
jacekowskiassuming that there will be driver01:37
javispedrothe issue here is the filesystem01:38
olgajavispedro: using this patch i can connect to the full EAP with TTLS & PAP?01:38
jacekowskias it's compatible in terms of connections and stuff01:38
jacekowskijavispedro: fat32 can do 128G iirc01:38
javispedroolga: no, I'm giving it to you because you will be able to watch TV with it!01:38
jacekowskihmm more01:38
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jacekowski2T+ according to wiki01:39
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javispedrojacekowski: but the SDXC standard says no FAT; exFAT.01:39
javispedrothe question is.01:39
jacekowskijavispedro: as recommended01:39
jacekowskijavispedro: it's still just a block device01:39
jacekowskijavispedro: and you can use whatever you want01:39
javispedrojacekowski: not exactly01:39
javispedrojacekowski: yes, you can use whatever you want, but then it will be out of spec01:39
olgajavispedro: ah sorry just confirming. not first language01:39
javispedrojacekowski: sd standard mandates specific filesystem01:40
jacekowskijavispedro: well, sdhc specs uses fat3201:40
javispedrojacekowski: say goodbye to logo01:40
javispedrofor example01:40
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jacekowskiwell, not really01:40
jacekowskiyou can sell cards preformated in exfat01:40
jacekowskiand then user can do everything01:41
jacekowskieverybody is happy01:41
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javispedrojacekowski: crappydevice X is perfectly to then reject the card, and in fact some chinese devices have rejected FAT32 < 2 GiB cards01:41
javispedro*perfectly in his right01:42
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javispedrosolution: don't buy crappydevice,  I know :)01:42
jacekowskii was thinking that we were talking about n900 support for cards bigger than 64G01:43
javispedroyes, I'm using that as an example of what will happen01:43
jacekowskihow often do you swap cards01:43
javispedrotbh, microSD: never.01:44
javispedrobut plain SD: a lot.01:44
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jacekowskihow do you fit plain SD in n900?01:44
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viszcut it a bit?01:44
cehtehhammer :)01:45
javispedrojacekowski: I do not know what we're discussing here, as my initial point was, quoting the horrible grammar:01:46
javispedro<javispedro> the simple answer is that you might cards bigger than 32GiB to work but it will not be standard so some devices may or might now be able to read/write cards touched by the Maemo device (or viceversa)01:46
cehtehthe n900 was announced only to support up to 16gb ... did that change with 1.3?01:49
jacekowskibecause only 16g cards were avaliable at the time01:49
jacekowskiit's all just software thing01:49
jacekowskinot hardware01:49
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jacekowskiand software can be changed01:50
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ds3SpeedEvil: hmmm don't you have a problem with the connector sticking out and just tempting someone to decapitate it off?01:59
internetishardwhat is the fix to change all of the calendar entress before DST back to their correct hour?02:01
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jacekowskiinternetishard: i'm not sure if that's going to work at all - but it's very likely that entries are stored in sqlite02:04
jacekowskiinternetishard: and then simple sql query could work02:04
jacekowskibut i'm not sure if sqlite assumption is true02:04
internetishardwhat is going to work?02:04
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internetishardwhen the time changed the other day all of my crap load of calendar entrees were set an hour back02:05
jacekowskiyeah it's sqlite302:06
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internetishardso what should I do?02:08
jacekowskiupdate components set DateStart=DateStart+3600, DateEnd=DateEnd+3600;02:10
jacekowskisomething like this02:10
jacekowskii mean like sqlite3 ~/.calendar/calendardb02:12
jacekowskiand then type that02:12
jacekowskimake a backup02:12
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Proteouswhos idea was it to have two people with nicks that start with ja and are the same lenght02:33
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Proteousmakes it look like someone is talkin to themselves02:33
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GAN900If someone wanted to get a ~$500 laptop with good Linux compatability, what would be recommended these days?02:52
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merlin1991all my acers so far had good linux compatibility :D02:59
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chxGAN900: no brand in specific. Think in models.03:11
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chxGAN900: especially if you do not want more than integrated graphics , every laptop has pretty good linux compatibility. They are not that different any more. They build on Intel chipsets with Intel CPUs. Almost all.03:13
javispedroif you can find a page of some geek's experiences with a concrete model, the better :)03:13
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* javispedro has found those quite useful in the past and thus has written some already03:14
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SpeedEvilPowesaving can vary regrettably though03:15
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javispedroon a modern laptop the rule of thumb is "half the idle battery life, about the same battery life on stress"03:16
javispedro(save for -- usually positive -- exceptions, but I find them rare)03:16
SpeedEvilI need to do the git bisect thing to work out why my laptop is using more power.03:17
nox-and/or powertop?03:18
SpeedEvilnot helping03:18
javispedropowertop is usually good for extreme cases03:18
javispedronot "the little things"03:18
javispedrothat when talking about idle might very well be in the hours03:19
nox-mm ok03:19
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SpeedEvilpowertop also doesn't help for someone accidentally screwing up powersave.03:25
SpeedEvilon a device03:25
DocScrutinizerleaving audio amp powered up... screwed RAM refresh... whatnot. No way to detect with powertop03:28
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DocScrutinizeron a contemporary laptop you probably got ~30 subsystems, each with the potential to suck battery if configured in an odd way03:30
javispedrolater versions of laptop do have some kind of expert system to help with that03:31
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javispedrothat make random suggestions (if some USB device is keeping USB controller awake -> suggest unplugging device)03:31
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javispedroyet... nowhere near as useful when you get down to a certain number.03:33
* javispedro has an acer5820tg and the min he's reached is around 9W03:33
javispedrowhich is still ~7h of battery life, far from the ~10h it gets with win7...03:34
SpeedEvilI also need to do a quick audit of the schematic of my laptop, for candidates.03:36
javispedroI've not gotten down that level yet :)03:36
javispedroI am yet on the dissasembling windows drivers stage :)03:36
chxi found that compat-wireless helps a ton with battery life03:36
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chxprevious versions did not allow me to powersafe on the wifi03:36
javispedrofor ex. this one laptop has a windows daemon that kills power to dvd unit03:37
chxhm, powertop helps you w that, but a daemon certainly is better03:37
javispedroI didn't found similar concept in the kernel yet so I wrote a similar userspace daemon03:37
chx(and i have a thinkpad and i permanently killed the power on the dvd by placing it in the cupboard)03:37
javispedronet result is -1W03:37
chxwow where is that available? :)03:38
javispedrochx: it is very acer timelinex specific:
javispedromissing there is the script in the gnome keybindings that maps eject button to -> echo 1 > power && eject03:40
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javispedroof course, no warranty :)03:44
javispedrouse under your own peril03:44
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ebzzryHi! Is there a pdf reader for fremantle with proper portrait mode?03:51
javispedroby "proper" do you mean "reflowing"?03:52
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ebzzryPardon me for the ambiguity. Proper hear would mean 1) fit to width 2) upward and downward scrolling (not sideways), and 3) automatic reorientation03:54
javispedronot sideways = reflowing?03:54
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ebzzryjavispedro: possibly?03:55
javispedroyou see, pdf is an awful format for ebook exacting because reflowing it is a hard (tm) problem03:55
infobotjavispedro meant: you see, pdf is an awful format for ebook exactly because reflowing it is a hard (tm) problem03:55
ebzzryjavispedro: In evince, for example, when you rotate a document, to say left, scrolling happens sideways.03:55
SpeedEvilPDF blows.03:56
ebzzryjavispedro: PDF may be an awful format, but that's the file format of a lot of technical documents.03:56
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javispedroyour best bet is running pdf2txt on it03:57
javispedrothat's what most commercial pdf reflowers do either way.03:57
javispedro(for untagged pdfs that is)03:58
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ebzzryHmm. I can imagine that would be horrible for technical LaTeX manuals.03:58
javispedroif you have the source, generate html or even rtf03:59
ebzzryjavispedro: Hmm, RTFs. What RTF reader would you suggest to use?04:00
javispedrothe free dataviz wordtogo viewer worked fine :)04:00
javispedrothe paid one is actually worse on this regard, because it won't reflow rtf for some weird reason.04:00
ebzzryWorse? Bad.04:01
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ebzzryThat's bad for a premium version.04:01
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javispedrowell, they for some reason I'll never understand got on the Qt hype, rewrote the entire application in Qt, and of course the net result was something horrible that looks ugly, is slow, and does not integrate with the system input method04:02
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javispedrobut that's another story.04:02
* javispedro would KILL whoever made that decision.04:02
ebzzryI would kill whoever made the decision to make / so small (or not making /usr a separate partition)04:09
SpeedEvil / is a 256M device04:13
SpeedEvilthere are no >256M devices in that form factor04:13
SpeedEvilOr there weren't04:13
ebzzrySpeedEvil: Hmm04:14
SpeedEvilThat's not the issue anyway.04:14
SpeedEvilThe issue was this ass-hatted /opt nonesense.04:15
SpeedEvilunix  boxes have been mounting /usr that is on a larger filesystem since maybe the year after unix was invented.04:15
javispedrowhile we're at it,04:17
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javispedroeven though I think the N9 will just ship an eMMC04:17
javispedroand a even smaller nand flash for possibly bootloader and that's about it.04:17
SpeedEvilThere is little reason not to - if you can do swap to emmc - and live with the bandwidth issues - not do that.04:18
SpeedEvilAs the on-die bootloader code is 48K or so, and is plenty to boot from emmc04:19
SpeedEvilthat's the ROM04:19
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javispedromy evil project I probably cannot talk about is going well04:35
javispedroworld domination here I come04:35
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ebzzryjavispedro: I'm looking forward to it.04:53
javispedrowell, let's engage step one. hit the sack! cya.04:54
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Gorrothi'm interested in seeing the N905:06
Gorrothbut for now, I'm busy turning the N900 into the ultimate "top secret pocket computer" that is ued for "cool stuff"05:06
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Gorrothspeaking of which, i'm updating libnet- in extras-devel to libnet-1.1.5-1 very soon... tonight maybe05:07
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Gorrothhope the N9 works on t-mobile05:10
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Proteousgot a cheap 3m pocket projector off of today05:37
Proteoushooked it up to my n900, works quite well05:37
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Gorrothoh, sweet05:39
GorrothProteous: use it to show an impromptu porn at your nearest major city05:39
Gorroththen run when the cops show up05:39
ProteousI'm in the middle of making a bluetooth SNES controller05:39
Gorrothwith the n900?05:39
Proteousthat will connect to my n900 yes05:40
Gorroththat sounds like not fun to use :(05:40
Gorrothyou mean the n900 will be an emulator then?  and not the controller?05:40
Gorrothokay, that sounds awesome then05:40
Proteousplaying nes/snes games on the built in keyboard sucks05:41
Gorrothi thought you were going to use the n900 itself as a controller, and i couldn't imagine that being fun05:41
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Proteousbut having a portable wireless nes/snes system that can project a 50in picture on a wall is cool :P05:41
Gorrothyeah, that is awesome05:41
Gorrothyou should take that to your local major city and do it05:42
Gorrothand run when the cops show up05:42
Gorrothjust run05:42
Gorrothdo it05:42
ProteousI just wish the bluetooth keyboard support on the n900 wasn't so fuxored up05:42
Gorrothalso act surprised and say something about how they're after you05:42
Proteousuh huh :P05:42
Gorrothyeah, i ahven't tried using any bt stuff on the n900 other than a headset05:43
Proteouskeyboard support is disabled by default, and even when you reenable it the keymappings are all messed up05:43
Gorrothhave to use a lot of xmodmap?05:43
Proteousyeah and it's wonkey05:44
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GAN900Wee, understaffed hardware-division-beholden software developers suck05:46
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johnxGAN900, they suck for being beholden to the hardware division?05:51
johnxor it sucks for them?05:51
Gorrothhmm, i thought the n900 had the option to do video calls on skype now05:52
Gorrothbut i can't find that anywhere05:52
johnxit's in the 'phone' app itself after you make a skype account05:53
Gorrothyeah, i have a skype account05:53
Gorrothi've been using audio skype on there for a long time05:53
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GAN900johnx, seems a big part of Nokia's problems are related to the hardware division settings all of the requirements.05:59
johnxGAN900, true. just sounded like you were bashing the software developers because of the situation :P06:04
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johnxhallo andrewfblack :D06:06
andrewfblackjohnx: Hey06:06
* andrewfblack must have pissed people off with his Clock App Blog Post06:07
andrewfblackpeople are even thumb downing my Theme Announcement Blog Posts now06:07
johnxI just switched to the new maemo-org theme, too06:08
andrewfblacklike it?06:08
johnxprobably the first theme I really feel like I can live with since digital nature06:09
johnx(I missed the first version of the maemo-org theme ...)06:09
andrewfblackjohnx: Yeah I really should have updated maemo-org months ago06:09
johnxthe faenza icons look great on maemo as well. I'd been using them on my desktop for a couple months06:10
andrewfblackI'm still not in love my background but when ever I talk about changing it some people get upset so I just leave it lol06:10
johnxI use a panorama pic that I've been using since forever06:11
johnxbut I've never used the background that came with the theme ;)06:11
andrewfblackMost of that was shazosbourne I just did a few dozen of them he is the one that really work hard on those.  I'm doing a new set of smiles to match the style as well should be out this week06:11
johnxeven back to the windowmaker days06:11
johnxhot sauce06:11
andrewfblackI found a wood floor background that just looks awsome with the icons and the colors, the wood has a slight orange color to it06:12
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johnxone of the ones on
andrewfblackbtw If I have anything to say about it maemo-org will be the first community theme for Meego Handset.06:13
andrewfblackjohnx: yeah06:13
andrewfblackI also got some custom desktop switcher icons i made for the left, right,1,2,3, and 406:14
johnxI guess the meego colors are purple and greyish. It's weird but I'm really a big fan of orange hilights in themes06:14
andrewfblackjohnx: I'm should change the name I guess but I will be doing this orange/grey theme in Meego, guess calling it maemo-org will confuse Meego people06:16
johnxa bit :)06:16
johnxI almost think you should do it06:16
andrewfblackI'll have to come up with a name for it06:16
johnxbut I'm sometimes amused by other people's confusion, so I might not be a good judge ...06:17
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andrewfblackMaybe I'll call it Something(maemo-org)06:17
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andrewfblackits about 60% down now no way to change themes in Meego to test it, might be able to just copy files over I guess06:18
andrewfblackjohnx: thats not bad06:18
pauly_hi i need help06:18
johnxhi pauly_. what's up?06:18
pauly_i recorded some vids off n90006:18
pauly_and they wont play throut the video out composite?06:19
pauly_any ideas?06:20
johnxso they play in the video player? what happens when you play them with the video out cable plugged in? do they appear on the N900 screen but not the tv?06:21
johnxas much info as possible please06:21
GAN900johnx, well, I'm not super impressed by most of them, either.06:21
pauly_thats exactly what happens06:21
GAN900andrewfblack, hey-oh.06:21
andrewfblackGAN900: Whats up06:22
GAN900andrewfblack, delivered a big project this evening. Looking forward to a (quiet) rest of the week and then Dublin.06:23
johnxGAN900, but you're still here :)06:23
johnxpauly_, do other videos play fine on the tv?06:23
GAN900johnx, sucker for punishment?06:24
johnxdoes anything show up on the tv when you plug in the cable? like the normal desktop?06:24
andrewfblackGAN900: Nice, wish I could be there but like the last shows I'm going to be working lol these things always happen when I'm working 72 hours a week and can't get off06:24
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pauly_yes everything shows up06:24
GAN900Well, they scheduled it during the week, so who's surprised. ;)06:25
pauly_but when i play videos it goes blank06:25
johnxGAN900, the thought that MeeGo is probably the last real alternative to iOS/Android?06:25
GAN900johnx, raster was teasing Samsung's unannounced MeeGo killer yesterday.06:25
johnxGAN900, yeah. I saw06:25
johnxmy statement stands06:25
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GAN900More depressing than heartening, these days, that MeeGo is the last hope.06:26
johnxraster is super-talented, and I'm excited for him, but I think Samsung is pretty clearly in the Android camp06:26
andrewfblackGAN900: Looks like there wont be a Florida Linux Show to go to this year btw.06:26
GAN900andrewfblack, tangent was saying nobody had organized anything.06:26
andrewfblackGAN900: yeah I've been watching there site and still says they are looking for a place to have it.06:27
GAN900Saves a couple of exhausting days, anyway.06:27
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andrewfblackGAN900: lol come on it was fun you got a turkey sandwich for free06:27
andrewfblackand a coke06:28
andrewfblackok I made out better I got a sheeva plug but hey its still in the box lol06:28
GAN900Need to set yourself up something stupid06:28
johnxnot so impressed with the sheeva/guru-plug06:29
GAN900Like a frontdoor monitor.06:29
GAN900Should be cheaper for that hardware06:29
andrewfblacklol I know just no time to play with it06:29
andrewfblackjohnx: I'm not either but I won mine in a fixed contest I'm I didn't complain06:29
johnxGAN900, the guru-plug basically can't even run without cooling modifications06:29
GAN900An Arduino is most suitable for many of its applications, unfortunately.06:29
GAN900johnx, oh?06:29
johnxyeah. had an order in, surfed the forums, most were essentially DoA06:30
johnxso I canceled and got a really nice Q-nap with great debian support06:30
johnxsimilar CPU, more expensive. totally worth it06:30
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andrewfblackGAN900: I have  been considering starting a Panhandle, Southeast Alabama, Soutwest Georgia Meego Local Network that is if I can get off my butt and really get into things again.06:33
GAN900Not much concentration out there.06:33
GAN900Might be more rewarding once things start shipping.06:34
andrewfblackGAN900: yeah that is what I'm thinking which is why I havn't moved on it yet06:34
andrewfblackHas anyone considered that after Meego Launches and maemo starts to shrink its going to be hard to find 10 people to vote for application updates?06:35
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ShadowJKThe visibility and discoverability of that voting thing is nonexistant too06:37
ShadowJKplus the vote buttons don't work on my computer unless I edit the URL :-)06:39
johnxandrewfblack, did you get enough votes to get in extras yet?06:42
andrewfblackstill need 3 more since someone down voted it with no comments
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johnxlooks like you only need 2 more :)06:46
andrewfblackthats all I need now :)06:47
andrewfblackmaybe one day I will learn the right way to package my themes instead of the crazy way I do it06:48
johnxheh. well, you can learn it for meego06:49
andrewfblacklol maybe06:49
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Gorrothi have to say i really like the ubuntu theme on the n90007:39
Gorrothit makes it look a lot more modern, IMO07:39
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andrewfblackOnly need 1 more vote on my theme
|njsf|andrewfblack i'll test it08:09
andrewfblack|njsf|: thanks08:09
|njsf|last few times I noticed though that the alarm repeat days and time of disabled entries were just numbers08:10
andrewfblack|njsf|: yeah its a known problem with themes.  There is a fix for it I'm going to try on my next version08:10
andrewfblackIt seems that the alarm has trouble with some font colors.08:11
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|njsf|ok I'll install it knowing that is not there yet and no snafus happening will vote it up08:11
|njsf|the an-droid theme and black plastic got it right08:12
|njsf|most others not08:12
andrewfblackok, yeah I talked to d-iivil that bug has been around since start of maemo5  and fix was just recently found08:13
|njsf|and I use alarm enough to annoy me and uninstall themes who fail that part08:13
andrewfblackfunny thing is I use white for that color but they say the color of the font is the problem08:13
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|njsf|there you seem to have 11 now08:18
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andrewfblackwell I got 11 up and 1 down so it equals 10 thanks08:19
andrewfblacknow I just have to wait 4 more days lol08:20
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Gorrothwhat happens when you vote for it08:20
Gorrothbuilding an ettercap maemo package now :)  i've already got squid and libnet in extras-devel now08:21
Gorrothonce i test that the build packages up nicely here, i'll ship it off to for inclusion to extras-devel :)08:21
Gorrothbtw, squid has transparent proxy support and ssl bump in it08:22
|njsf|Gorroth voting is to promote package from extras testing to extra08:22
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|njsf|you developer commit to extras dev which may have unstable packages08:23
|njsf|you developer promote to extras testing once you feel it is stable08:23
Gorrothnow, when you get promoted, is a maintainer assigned to the package like they do in debian or ubuntu?08:23
Gorrothor do you stay on as maintainer?08:23
andrewfblackyou stay maintainer08:24
Gorrothjust submitted ettercap08:25
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Gorrothwe'll see if the autobuilder can build it; it's possible i forgot a dep or something08:25
Gorrothand then i can finally get to testing squid and ettercap this week :)  along with wireless AP abilities >:)08:26
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Gorrothdamn it; the build failed08:27
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* slonopotamus yawns08:29
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Gorrothwhy are you yawning, sir?08:30
Gorrothoh yeah08:32
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andrewfblackI found a couple of colors that fix the bug but I can't find one I like08:34
Gorrothwoooooo!! ettercap finished building for armel and i386 on maemo's autobuilder08:36
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* slonopotamus tries to stop reading it as 'utter crap' :P08:38
Gorrothit is far from that :)08:38
Gorrothjust waiting for it to hit extras-devel08:39
Gorrothhonestly not sure why it's taking so long08:39
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andrewfblackI didn't know my phone could get a STD I guess we don't need virus protection for phones.,2817,2372409,00.asp08:45
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Gorrothettercap-ng is now up on extras-devel08:48
Gorrothhave fun h4x1ng!08:48
Gorrothnow i just need to build some sort of GUI that makes this whole thing easy to use08:49
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Gorrothandrewfblack: well, i recently learned about digital glory holes scattered across NYC08:59
Gorrothand i'm going to hook my N900 up to one this weekend if my USB dongles arrive08:59
Gorroth -- digital glory holes08:59
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lolloohellooo0oo guys09:24
lollooneed your help please09:24
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lollooI updated power kernel just now09:24
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lolloobut now I cant use multiboot menu09:24
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lolloowhen I choose power kernel its says not availible09:25
lolloowhat shall I do?09:25
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lollooneed you help guys09:25
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lollooI cant boot to power kernel anymore after the update09:26
lollooI updated power kernel just now09:26
lolloomaybe I need to edit the multiboot file using leaf pad09:26
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lolloobut can someone please show me where I can find it09:27
lolloowhere I can find the file for multiboot items09:27
lollooguys where can I find multiboot items files so I can edit it09:28
lolloofor the new power kernel09:29
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crashanddie_lolloo, we're not the power kernel support channel, frankly09:45
crashanddie_lolloo, would suggest you ask on tmo, or contact the power kernel maintainer/developers directly.09:45
lollooalright, thanks09:46
crashanddie_that being said09:46
crashanddie_ask MohammadAG first :P09:46
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RobbieThe1stHi all09:52
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RobbieThe1stHm... Resizing the optfs/MyDocs partitions would be so much easier with parted... I wonder if the debian ARM packages would work..10:02
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javeis it possible to save waypoints in the map aplications? for instance, to find my way back to a particular place.10:05
andaxwhoever did it, thanks for adding poppler-utils to repos, after all :-)10:05
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crashanddie_why the hell do I always get 15 mod points?10:10
crashanddie_(on slashdot)10:10
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chibi-taigai have a problem, my radio stopped worlking10:13
chibi-taigait says "cantload fm radio driver module"10:13
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chibi-taigawhat can i do about it10:14
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jacekowskichibi-taiga: have you tried rebooting?10:15
chibi-taigayes it worked yesterday , i use radio everyday and now it stopped working10:16
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jacekowskithat wasn't the question10:17
jacekowskihave you rebooted your phone?10:17
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zeltakmorning..anyone know of a prog to record phone calls for the n900?10:17
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chibi-taigathere is one for record phone calls10:18
chibi-taigai use it10:19
chibi-taigasearch for recaller10:19
zeltakthx chibi-taiga10:19
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crashanddie_note that in some countries it's illegal to record phone conversations without the other person's consent/knowing.10:20
jacekowskicrashanddie_: in most countries you can record it and then ask for consent to store it10:21
chibi-taigawell here at the netherlands these kinds of things arnt lilligal10:21
jacekowskicrashanddie_: so you can record conversation that's unaffected by person knowing that it's recorded10:21
RobbieThe1stIn the USA, even, it varies by state.10:21
jacekowskichibi-taiga: it is10:21
chibi-taigano since they all do it10:22
jacekowskichibi-taiga: you have to let other person know at some point that it's recorded10:22
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zeltakheheh thx for thre legal advice but my attorney actually requested i record the call :)10:22
chibi-taigaanyways about my radio module10:22
jacekowskichibi-taiga: and have you noticed that at start of every phone call to some more official place it says "this call may be recorded/monitored/something"10:22
jacekowskizeltak: attorney?10:22
chibi-taigacan it be fixed?10:22
jacekowskizeltak: where are you calling10:22
jacekowskichibi-taiga: answer my question10:23
jacekowskichibi-taiga: have you restarted your phone10:23
jacekowskichibi-taiga: remove battery10:23
jacekowskichibi-taiga: and start it again10:23
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zeltaki live in the us but an visiting now in israek10:23
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crashanddie_chibi-taiga, only as long as you don't distribute the recording10:23
zeltakanyway thx for the info10:23
andax. o O ( in some countries, the brain counts as data storage and in some not )10:23
chibi-taigauhm kay ill try10:23
chibi-taigain a few mins10:24
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crashanddie_jacekowski, same in the UK, only legal if you don't share the recording with a 3rd party10:25
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CutMeOwnThroatI don't think you're allowed to in Germany at all...10:29
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CutMeOwnThroatand it won't be able to be used in courts and such10:29
CutMeOwnThroatwould be fun to prepend a "this call can be monitored for quality assurance, if you disagree with this policy, hang up now" to your calls with an automated voice :)10:30
CutMeOwnThroatdamn companies are doing it to you why shouldn't you be allowed to do everyone else in reverse10:31
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nidOyou can, nothing stopping you10:31
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CutMeOwnThroatalthough it might be a bit weird if it's you calling someone10:31
nidOwell, if you're calling someone that has that message their end, you dont need to give it to them10:32
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CutMeOwnThroatI don't think that they tell you they're recording automatically gives you the right to record as well10:33
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nidOwell in the uk it does - all companies here very specifically word their messages as "this call may be recorded" rather than "we may record this call" as the former gives permission both ways, which allows either party to share the recording10:34
CutMeOwnThroathm, that wording sounds familiar, I never thought of it that way10:36
CutMeOwnThroatI thought it just means this message may or may not be recorded, as they might only be recording selected ones?10:36
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CutMeOwnThroatnot so sure about German law... you might not even be allowed to record calls with that warning10:37
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johnxCutMeOwnThroat, "might be a bit weird if it's you calling someone" Haven't you gotten one of those emails with the massive signatures about how  the information included above is confidential and you're obligated to destroy it if the sender accidentally sent it the wrong person?10:43
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achipaX-Fade: ping10:53
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* timeless_webchat cries10:58
* johnx gives timeless_webchat a cookie10:59
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timeless_webchatjohnx: i don't suppose you know of a way to set up per connection proxies on os x?11:00
johnxcan you react to connection events?11:00
johnxI mean, adium does11:00
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johnxwhy not just bring the proxy up when a connection comes up that matches a certain string11:01
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timeless_webchatyou want me to write a program to do something my n900 can do?11:03
timeless_webchatoh gosh11:03
johnxsorry, I should have said: d-bus owns. mac os fails :D11:04
timeless_webchati was typing, and microsoft's autoupdate had launched for a critical update11:04
timeless_webchatand the dialog came up while i was typing11:04
timeless_webchatso my <space> key went to the app instead of this window11:04
X-Fadeachipa: pong11:04
* timeless_webchat thanks apple for sucking11:04
johnxthe mistake you made was letting that auto-updater thing on your machine in the first place11:04
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andax"this call may be recorded" is also heard at some company phone calls, at isp and mobile providers in particular. i believe it is practized the same in germany11:05
timeless_webchatjohnx: not very automatic11:05
timeless_webchati had to manually open it from help>check for updates11:05
andax+is also heard here in switzerland11:05
johnxaaah, ok. the *other* updater thing11:05
timeless_webchatoddly, i opened it from word 200811:05
timeless_webchatand i believe it's offering me an office 2011 update11:05
johnxit'll probably delete 2008 and install a trial of 201111:06
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timeless_webchati have both installed11:08
chibi-taigawell it didnt work11:08
timeless_webchattimeless-mbp:TemporaryItems timeless$ du -sh .11:08
* timeless_webchat feels great11:08
chibi-taigaso any other options to fux radio?11:08
timeless_webchatand if i'm not mistaken, it has *multiple* copies of the same stupid updater11:09
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timeless_webchatchibi-taiga: do i want to know what you did to your radio?11:09
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chibi-taigait says "error cant load radio module"11:10
johnxchibi-taiga, run dmesg, paste output to pasite.org11:10
timeless_webchatit doesn't say that11:10
timeless_webchatbecause "cant" isn't a word11:10
johnxin a terminal11:10
timeless_webchatdmesg != dmseg11:10
johnxuhm, hmm11:10
chibi-taigahow dol i do that?11:11
timeless_webchattransposing characters or randomly omitting them aren't good ideas11:11
johnxtimeless_webchat, you left out the period at the end.11:11
chibi-taigaso i just have to type dmseg?11:11
timeless_webchatjohnx: I'm not using sentence capitalization.11:11
johnxchibi-taiga, yeah, then copy the last screen or so of lines and put them on pastie.org11:12
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chibi-taigaso what part?11:12
johnxactually, it'd be best if you caused the 'can't load radio module' error again, then ran dmesg11:12
chibi-taigaits quite alist11:13
* timeless_webchat kicks someone11:13
johnxchibi-taiga, all of it would be nice. paste it to pastie.org11:13
timeless_webchatthat's just evil11:13
chibi-taigaeh cant it log it?11:13
timeless_webchatdmesg > ~/MyDocs/dmesg.txt11:13
crashanddie_timeless, rm -rf -- *mpkg11:14
timeless_webchatcrashanddie_: yeah yeah11:14
timeless_webchatalready donee11:14
crashanddie_k :)11:14
tybolltchibi-taiga: ye my friend is complaining ALOT about the radio shitz :S11:14
tybolltchibi-taiga: it is known br0cken then?11:14
johnxcrashanddie, aaaah, I was going to try and get him to create some insane bash pipeline to do it11:15
chibi-taigagimme a sec trying to save it as log11:15
CutMeOwnThroatjohnx, yeah... the existance of those emails doesn't invalidate _anything_ what I said about weird...11:17
johnxCutMeOwnThroat, just that you'd be in good company :)11:17
CutMeOwnThroatjohnx, for a certain value of "good"11:18
chibi-taigahow can i save it on ms?11:18
X-Fadeachipa: 4.7.5-maemo1, right? :)11:18
chibi-taigait cant creat the txt11:18
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johnxchibi-taiga, what?11:19
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chibi-taigaif i try to creat a txt11:23
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crashanddie_johnx, for i in `find . -name *mpkg`; do rm -rf $i; done?11:24
johnxcrashanddie, I think that will show the same error though11:24
crashanddie_that's the whole point :D11:24
johnxchibi-taiga, type it exactly as he did: dmesg > ~/MyDocs/dmesg.txt11:24
johnxthere is no space between ~ and /11:25
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chibi-taiga my mbad11:25
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timeless_webchatwould rm -rf "$i" in that case have worked?11:25
chibi-taigawhere can i upload txt?11:26
johnxchibi-taiga, pastie.org11:26
crashanddie_timeless, nope11:26
timeless_webchatopen it in notes/browse and copy it11:26
timeless_webchatthen paste it into pastie.org11:26
crashanddie_timeless, to check, do a touch "-foo"11:26
crashanddie_should yell that option o is invalid11:27
timeless_webchat"'$i'" ? :)11:27
* timeless_webchat hates unix command parsing11:27
timeless_webchatthe windows approach is safer :)11:27
johnxtimeless_webchat, fine. we're sending you back to DOS11:27
crashanddie_timeless, well, no, that would try to delete '$i'11:28
crashanddie_not $i11:28
timeless_webchatfor /f "usebackq" ...11:28
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crashanddie_touch "'-foo'" > results in file '-foo'11:28
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timeless_webchatanyone here get email from
timeless_webchati'm trying to figure out how evil they are11:29
crashanddie_pretty evil11:29
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crashanddie_second google hit for is a mcafee advisor website11:29
timeless_webchatseems to mark them as evil11:29
timeless_webchatthe mcafee site isn't very negative on them sadly11:29
timeless_webchatit basically says "we scanned and found nothing wrong, they're innocent"11:30
timeless_webchatthe comments say "they're evil"11:30
timeless_webchatbut that's "below the fold"11:30
sivangmeh, stupid web jouranlist bashing symbian11:30
johnxtimeless_webchat, the fact that it's hit #2 probably means that everyone is trying to figure out if they're evil11:30
sivangbut I think he took it from arstechnica11:30
* sivang tries to find the original article11:30
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sivanghey timeless_webchat , what's a parcel service?11:31
timeless_webchatsivang: a spam delivery service :)11:31
timeless_webchatseems to offer various major retail providers11:32
timeless_webchattry google: inurl:delivery.net11:32
johnxchibi-taiga, are you on PR1.3? are you using a custom kernel (kernel-power) and/or overclocking? Did you install the fm radio app before upgrading to PR1.3?11:33
sivangtimeless_webchat: heh11:33
sivangtimeless_webchat: sounded like so11:33
chibi-taigano overclocking11:33
chibi-taigalike i said yesterday it worked fine11:33
chibi-taigaand today it doesnt11:33
chibi-taigaand yes i kave a linux kernal installed11:34
chibi-taigaupdate well i think a week ago i did that and i reinstalled everything i had on it11:35
crashanddie_after 3 days trying to find why a song by the lostprophets sounded so familiar, I found the song it reminded me of11:35
johnxchibi-taiga, did you reboot between yesterday and today? take any app updates? install anything new? drop your phone on the ground and stomp on it?11:36
timeless_webchatcrashanddie_: ... and?11:36
crashanddie_timeless_webchat, nothing, just that. My inner OCD-abiding part is put to rest.11:36
chibi-taigahumm i did install something 2 days ago the h-e-n11:36
chibi-taigabut it failed11:37
chibi-taigali e most applications11:37
timeless_webchatwhat was the song?11:37
crashanddie_timeless, the chorus, part where they sing "We're holding on, we're holding on"
johnx"but it failed like most applications": expand on that a bit11:37
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chibi-taigawell after upgrade os11:38
crashanddie_timeless, sounds exactly the same as The Von Bondies C'mon C'mon
chibi-taigaall applications are gone right?11:38
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chibi-taigaso i reinstalled them11:38
sivangoverclocking looks scary11:38
sivangjudging by the document11:38
chibi-taigaand some failed11:38
chibi-taigamost likely bcuz the files/apps already existed but aint in the hkey like in windows11:39
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chibi-taigabut i dont know how to wipe tha application memory11:39
johnxwhen you say you updated the OS, did you reflash or use the OTA update?11:40
chibi-taigai used nsu311:40
chibi-taigathats all i did11:40
johnxhave you tried rebooting since your radio stopped working?11:41
chibi-taigayes and remove battery as surguested11:41
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TermanaHold on a second11:42
TermanaYou didn't say what I think you just said11:42
TermanaThe HKEY like in Windows? As in... the Windows Registry?11:42
TermanaHA :p11:42
Termanachibi-taiga, there's no such thing on Linux11:42
nidOnix systems dont work anything like that11:43
chibi-taigaapps arnt registered yet they are in the memory11:43
johnxchibi-taiga, try this in google: "error can not load fm radio driver module" site:talk.maemo.org11:43
sivangcompare (seems to be the original) with -,7340,L-3981858,00.html , note the surreal image.11:44
timeless_webchatTermana: well11:44
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timeless_webchatif you treat gconf and the file system as equivalent to hkey11:45
Termanadon't say gconf11:45
Termanapre-emptive strike11:45
timeless_webchatthen his analogy isn't terrible11:45
timeless_webchatit ain't wonderful11:45
timeless_webchatbut it ain't terrible11:45
* timeless_webchat isn't sure how stupid nsu is11:45
* timeless_webchat hasn't used it w/ an n90011:45
timeless_webchator at least, not in 3+months11:45
chibi-taigai installed that h-e-n so could it be that?11:46
johnxtimeless_webchat, I get the feeling that it's a known, solved problem with the way radio app looks for kernel modules11:46
johnxthat's why I suggested that specific google search ;)11:46
chibi-taigaso if i uninstall that its fixed?11:46
chibi-taigait failed on install though yet its there11:47
johnxhuh? when you go to install it, it fails?11:48
achipaX-Fade: no, actually not that one :) libmeegotouch :)11:48
chibi-taiga when i installed hen yes11:48
timeless_webchatwhat the heck is h-e-n?11:48
chibi-taigalike  i said it fails on install on some apps11:48
sivangmy question as well11:48
johnxtimeless_webchat, also: find ./ -type f -print0 | xargs -0 rm11:49
Termanasivang, A lot of us here probably don't read/write the other language on the second page you linked to, so it's hard for us to compare :p11:49
timeless_webchatjohnx: -maxdepth 1 ?11:49
johnxtimeless_webchat, damn. you caught the trap *shakes fist*11:49
achipaX-Fade: kill all versions of it in extras-* free11:50
johnxchibi-taiga, ah, and you're using the -devel repository. great :P11:50
achipa(note free, that's the important part :) )11:50
X-Fadeachipa: Of 4.7.5* or everything?11:50
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chibi-taigai guess yes11:51
chibi-taiga i use all repositorys11:51
johnxthat's not a very good idea. often packages in -devel are broken. otherwise they'd be in testing11:51
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johnxI'd try to uninstall the radio app and reinstall it from extras or extras-testing if it's there11:52
timeless_webchatusers are funny11:52
chibi-taigaahh i see11:52
RobbieThe1stBasically: If you use extras-devel, you are giving up any right to complain when things break.11:52
johnxotherwise, you'll need to look at the thread you found in that google search, and try and figure out what solution people already came to, to solve it11:52
chibi-taigai use this fater application installer11:53
sivangTermana: I've been trying to find the english version of this pinhead's article, to no avail11:53
crashanddie_I still believe that project has to be renamed11:53
sivangTermana: the image for me was too much-11:54
chibi-taigayes faster11:54
sivangTermana: someone is going too far to note how "bad" symbian is, and I just found another article by the same dude, praising the N8, but giving it a low mark for the price11:54
chibi-taigaso i have to diable that devel?11:54
* RobbieThe1st crosses fingers and hopes that the maemo scratchbox installs/compiles properly on my x86_64 system, and that he doesn't have to try to kludge something together from the version in apt.11:55
nidO"for the price"? The economics of an n8 are about the last thing he can complain about, its crazily cheap compared to practically anything else comparable11:55
chibi-taigaok so i uninstall hen11:55
sivangTermana: he goes to great length using terrible death descriptions which is uncalled for in such a "technical" article.11:55
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timeless_webchatRobbieThe1st:good luck w/ that11:56
RobbieThe1stchibi-taiga: Note that "h-e-n" is experimental hostmode support, and uses it's own kernel, which means you may have to reinstall the default kernel to completely remove it11:56
JaffaMorning, all11:57
johnxtimeless_webchat, also, does that "network location" thing help with keeping proxy settings from being "on for everything"?11:57
RobbieThe1stI'm just hoping the ia32-compatibility libs allow it to work, and/or it ends up compiling.11:57
timeless_webchatjohnx: the thing w/ automatic?11:57
timeless_webchatit's only for your network order11:57
timeless_webchatit's totally useless11:58
* timeless_webchat kicks apple for misplacing the widget11:58
timeless_webchati.e. no!11:58
johnxtimeless_webchat, also, can be used to disable interfaces. it seems. (didn't realize that order was anything but cosmetic, I must admit ...)11:58
sivangmorning Jaffa11:58
timeless_webchatyeah, it isn't totally cosmetic or totally useless11:59
timeless_webchatit's just misplaced11:59
timeless_webchatand terribly confusing11:59
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timeless_webchatbecause it's perfectly logical for a certain location's ethernet to need a different proxy11:59
timeless_webchatbut totally not supported11:59
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johnxchibi-taiga, so yeah, since hen uses its own kernel and doesn't include the driver to make your radio work, you probably need to switch back to the default kernel or reflash. that's the kind of thing that happens when you use extras-devel. if you follow this thread, starting with the guy having trouble with the radio, you might be able to figure it out, but you're pretty much on your own I think (this thread:
johnxread.php?t=39753&pp=10&page=233 )12:02
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timeless_webchat... this is what you get if you make it too easy for users to change their foundation12:03
timeless_webchatw/o ensuring they understand what's involved in doing so12:03
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tybolltwhat's the deal w/ the radio app?12:03
johnxtimeless_webchat, and if you make it too hard, everyone has to live with a crappy network selector :>12:03
johnxtybollt, hardcoded path to module12:03
timeless_webchattybollt: if you install a third party kernel12:04
timeless_webchatthings don't work perfectly12:04
timeless_webchatand people complain that random other things are broken12:04
johnxthen, a kernel version mismatch with the radio_ module it looks like12:04
timeless_webchatjohnx: to be fair, someone could provide a third party gui for my problem12:04
timeless_webchatas someone noted it should be possible to listen to notifications12:05
timeless_webchatit wouldn't require screwing w/ kernels12:05
johnxtimeless_webchat, and that would work just about as well as all low-level 3rd party hacks to OSX :P12:05
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timeless_webchatjohnx: um12:05
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timeless_webchati'm using ZFS, which panic'd 5 times yesterday and once the day before12:05
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timeless_webchati don't really blame apple for that12:06
timeless_webchatexcept to the extent that i think the hard disk drive i was using the first time failed12:06
timeless_webchatand i suspect this replacement is failing12:06
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RobbieThe1sttimeless_webchat: On your imac?12:08
* timeless_webchat doesn't have an imac12:08
timeless_webchatonly a g5 and an mbp12:08
mecehey anyone here using Nokia Qt SDK?12:08
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timeless_webchati'm using webchat because my irc clients are flaky memory hogs12:09
RobbieThe1stDoes that have a normal sata laptop drive or an odd one? I know in my mom's imac, I just stuck a (bigger) WD sata drive in it and doubled the space.12:09
timeless_webchatand they log data to disk, which is dangerous when your disk is causing panics12:10
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timeless_webchatfairly normal12:10
MohammadAG51mece, a lot of us probably12:10
MohammadAG51at least i do12:10
timeless_webchati replaced the original w/ a larger one when the original failed12:11
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meceMohammadAG51, I'm kinda struggling on getting the latest qt in there.12:13
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MohammadAG51mece, it keeps saying update available for me, even when i update12:15
meceMohammadAG51, hmm mine never finds any updates. want qt 4.7.1 and qt mobility 1.112:15
meceI think I have to compile them manually though.12:16
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meceproblem is I don't know how to do anything on this pos old windows xp machine12:16
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asj_mece: mobility 1.1.0 came out last night, a little patience?12:17
jarkkomis there n900 package too? betas were only for Symbian12:18
meceasj_, well I would have settled with beta, but couldn't get that fixed either. I need it for work12:18
chibi-taigasorry got dced12:18
mecejarkkom, I don't think it's there yet.12:18
chibi-taigai need to uninstall hen rite?12:19
johnxchibi-taiga, take a look at the log, please12:19
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achipaX-Fade: bonus question - can we add sources to stuff in non-free (yes, weird question, I know)12:23
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MohammadAG51achipa, can't be compiled in autobuilder? :P12:24
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X-Fadeachipa: What are you doing in non-free? I feel a recipe for disaster coming up?12:24
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* timeless_webchat chuckles12:24
* timeless_webchat remembers mozilla and non-free12:25
RobbieThe1stWhat happened?12:25
MohammadAG51on that note, is fennec FOSS?12:25
achipaX-Fade: heh - I fully agree, I just don't know where to put the sources until upstream fixes stuff so it could actually pass through the autobuilder12:25
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timeless_webchatRobbieThe1st: not sure actually12:25
achipa(I put my money on never)12:25
timeless_webchatbasically mozilla wanted to do their own builds using their own build infra12:25
timeless_webchatand post binaries + sources12:25
X-Fadeachipa: Remember you can't mix free and non-free, it is either or. So never change back then.12:26
timeless_webchatthe way free/ is managed, that isn't allowed12:26
timeless_webchatpeople objected to "non-free"12:26
RobbieThe1stAh... Then I think that happened was they just have their own repo, and we users use that.12:26
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timeless_webchatyeah, i think in the end it was mostly settled by just having another repo12:26
achipaX-Fade: apparently there is some envvar munching going on that is 'difficult to do' in autobuilder (sounds weird, but I'll give the benefit of a doubt)12:26
MohammadAG51or post to free without cleaning binaries, but that's bad :P12:26
timeless_webchatyay repo+++++++12:27
X-Fadeachipa: That sounds like a weak excuse.12:27
X-Fadeachipa: Where is the build log?12:27
MohammadAG51achipa, make: nothing to do, good enough of a hint? :P12:27
achipathe binary part of the stuff is already in non-free, for several months now :S12:27
MohammadAG51for even12:27
X-Fadeachipa: Well you can always submit sources to non-free. Just dput sources.12:28
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RobbieThe1stHm, wouldn't it be possible to just upload your binary files as source files? If you can upload python files(which require no compiling)...12:29
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meceX-Fade, wow, I never thought of that. pretty cool.12:29
timeless_webchatfennec is as free as minefield fwiw12:29
timeless_webchatbranded fennec is as free as branded firefox12:29
timeless_webchat(branded fennec = Firefox for Mobile)12:29
X-Fademece: But if the app really isn't non-free then something needs to be fixed, otherwise we would need to remove it from non-free.12:32
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chibi-taigajohnx what am i suppose to find in it?12:39
meceX-Fade, righty.12:39
johnxchibi-taiga, people with the same problem as you12:39
johnx(other people using a custom kernel who lost radio support)12:40
johnxbut the quickest way to fix it is probably to reflash and don't install hen12:40
johnxanyways, off to bed for tonight. good luck12:40
RobbieThe1stAll you have to do is do "apt-get install --reinstall kernel-power kernel-power-flasher"...12:41
RobbieThe1st(for power kernel; not sure what's needed for the regular one)12:41
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RST38hmoo all12:42
RST38hheya johnx, what brings you here in such a late hour?12:42
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johnxRST38h, just about to sleep. was working on meego/obs stuff for fun :)12:43
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DocScrutinizerhell, what? what got h-e-n to do with radio support?12:44
RST38hDoc: You are now responsible for the radio support.12:44
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RST38hDoc: And for every N900 lemmings will brick while running h-e-n.12:45
DocScrutinizerRST38h: thought as much :-/12:45
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johnxDocScrutinizer, radio support involves installing a kernel module ...12:45
RST38hDoc: Ask Mohammad and javispedro for details, they know all about it =)12:46
DocScrutinizerI wonder if h-e-n kernel could rdepend on PR1.3 stock, and we'd of course use the stock modules then12:48
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achipaX-Fade: net dropped... did we haave any conclusion ? apart from 'dont do it' ? :)12:49
RST38hRight now you have to have your own kernel?12:49
DocScrutinizerthere's basically no need for h-e-n kernel specific modules12:49
DocScrutinizerRST38h: yep, as usb is monolitic, not a module12:49
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RST38hDoc: I would suggest a bit different solution12:50
X-Fadeachipa: You can always upload sources to non-free. just dput including source, or source only.12:50
X-Fadeachipa: But if this is for pyqt, I would warn against doing that. As that will create a big mess.12:51
RST38hDoc: Create a combined kernel that includes your usb stuff, overclock stuff (compiled in but turned off by default of course) and a few other useful fixes (android patches maybe?)12:51
achipaX-Fade: libmeegotouch12:51
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RST38hDoc: Then cooperate with Mohammad to host it as part of his community SSU12:51
DocScrutinizerRST38h: that's what MohammadAG51 created yesterday aiui12:51
X-Fadeachipa: just let them dput including source next time.12:51
RST38hDoc: Of course, whatever patches you include there, they must be dormant by default12:51
DocScrutinizerRST38h: they are12:52
RST38hDoc: This feels like an even better solution, because every lemming installing it will be warned of a dangerous-non-maemo-org-repo-experimental-deadly-stuff-stay-away-you-dumbo12:52
DocScrutinizerRST38h: moh created a power-kernel with hostmode yesterday (or 2 days ago?)12:52
achipaX-Fade: "Sources are not available from apt-get because dput does not support DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS export."12:52
achipaX-Fade: does this make sense or do I need coffee ?12:52
RST38hDoc: There should really be a *single* custom kernel with all this stuff12:53
RST38hDoc: Otherwise, you have got a circus, as they are all mutually exclusive12:53
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RST38hCan only have one kernel installed and booted at a time12:53
X-Fadeachipa: *couch*bullshit*cough*12:53
achipaX-Fade: cough*thought so*cough12:54
DocScrutinizerwe need ONE community kernel, which should be power-kernlel+12:54
X-Fadeachipa: Ask MohammadAG51 he uploads to the community repository including source too.12:54
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: t-tan's v41 powerkernel has all the USB hostmode stuff, but commented for now afaik12:56
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DocScrutinizer~seen t-tan12:57
infobott-tan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 151d 15h 16m 46s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'.12:57
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, adding hostmode is easy as piss, tell t-tan to reverse pr1.3's musb_core.c12:58
MohammadAG51he only needs my patch in debian/patches12:58
MohammadAG51sometimes i wish my laptop had WWoL :/12:58
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* MohammadAG51 needs a netbook for school13:00
MohammadAG51today was a complete waste of time, so I decided to skip the rest of the day13:01
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crashanddie_MohammadAG, go to starbucks, rob some chick off her netbook, run, profit.13:01
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MohammadAG51crashanddie_, starbucks went bankrupt here in IL ages ago13:02
MohammadAG51probably 7 years ago13:02
crashanddie_see, too many robberies13:02
crashanddie_poor starbucks13:02
MohammadAG51heh, kosher/not kosher shit13:02
crashanddie_MohammadAG, that's because of people like you13:02
SwedeMikewhen doing IPv6 only APN and NAT64 on the N900, it seems to keep asking for A DNS records even though it doesn't have any Ipv4 connectivity, and when it then can't access the A record (no route to host) it doesn't fall back to IPv6. Is there a knob I haven't turned?13:02
MohammadAG51with all respect, i just call a lot of shit shit13:02
crashanddie_I mean, stealing netbooks off the poor chick that just sits sipping her coffee13:02
crashanddie_how dare you?13:03
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MohammadAG51crashanddie_, were netbooks even popular around that time?13:03
crashanddie_doesn't matter, you were still considering it now13:03
crashanddie_you bastard13:03
MohammadAG51sue me13:03
crashanddie_truth be told, MohammadAG, based on what you eat, I guess your shit could be kosher13:03
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MohammadAG51someone get me a fruppacino13:04
MohammadAG51or however it's spelt :P13:04
crashanddie_fappucino. For those lonely times.13:04
* MohammadAG51 has fapman for that13:05
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crashanddie_If you leave it to cool for 12 minutes, it can be used as a fleshlight13:05
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MohammadAG51leave what cool lol13:06
crashanddie_the fappucino13:06
MohammadAG51eww :P13:09
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alteregoJezus, what are you two talking about :P13:11
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andaxmake -d install fappucino # whatever it is, it sounds like coffee break :)13:11
crashanddie_it's a break alright13:11
nidOim amazed, actually had a direct response from nokia regarding shortcomings in the new ovi suite13:12
MohammadAG51"It's shit, kthxbye"13:12
nidOasking for a bit more info on the problem, they might actually be vaguely thinking about looking into it13:13
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crashanddie_"Lol, u bot fro nokia, nao njoy crap service's"13:13
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MohammadAG51nidO, it's a stunt :P13:14
ohwhyme2Do i need to flash the kernel if I install power42? I cant seem to boot into it with multiboot. I have nitdroid and neopwn installed.13:14
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nidOquite possibly, we'll see if anything actually comes of it, im just quite amazed that i actually got a reply from the bug feedback form13:15
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RST38hA fappuchino? What fappuchino?13:16
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DocScrutinizernidO: random text template answer13:30
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* timeless_xchat sighs13:31
lcuknidO, :) sending a correctly formed question to places should get you a correctly formed answer.  i expect that is the same no matter which contact mechanism you use13:31
timeless_xchatwhere's macsbug when i need it?13:31
lcukif you submit crap, you cannot expect anything other than crap back13:32
nidOlcuk: except, generally, when submitting bug report forms for not-openly-developed software, the submission is generally the last you ever hear of it, especially when it comes to reminding nokia that the n900 exists13:33
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alteregoPlaye dwith a Nokia N8 last night13:33
alteregoWell, I say played with, I had to fix it for someone.13:33
phellarvalterego: Was it any good?13:33
alteregoQuite sleek.13:33
ohwhyme2if i flashed my n900 to use the neopwn kernel does that mean if i flash the power42 kernel, i cant use neopwn?13:33
timeless_xchatalterego: time to fix?13:33
tobis87MohammadAG51: I have made a patch of the hw accel. drivers for the community kernel:
phellarvalterego: Did it have xterm?13:33
alteregoBit annoying, that when you stick it on a table it doesn't sit flat.13:33
DocScrutinizerlcuk: are there maps to find the way to your universe? I usually get crap answers to correct questions13:33
tobis87Please make sure they are only compiled as modules.13:33
lcukDocScrutinizer, which definition of correct are you using? :)13:34
DocScrutinizera correct one :-P13:34
phellarvlcuk: The most correct one?13:34
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tobis87MohammadAG51: I have made a patch of the hw accel. drivers for the community kernel:
lcukDocScrutinizer, obviously you mistyped shibboleet13:37
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DocScrutinizercomment on #44 by Joerg Reisenweber: "shibboleet"13:42
povbot`Bug 9314: Relicense BME13:42
DocScrutinizerI so tempted13:43
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timeless_xchatdocscrutinizer/lcuk: do you guys get the historical reference?13:51
timeless_xchator is xkcd as far as you go?13:51
lcuki didn't know until i just googled it13:54
lcukthats really interesting, a word pronouncable by locals but other people couldnt say :)13:54
crashanddie_windows 7 phones don't support static IP addresses, only DHCP13:55
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auenferr, serious?13:59
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userjohnx youre still here?14:07
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Termanacrashanddie_, auenf, SpeedEvil - they also don't properly support microSD/microSDHC/microSD-whatever14:13
TermanaBut do you really need someone to assure you that WP7 is crap?14:13
auenfso it IS an improvement on wm6.5 then14:13
jarkkomwp7 seems pretty rushed, it works just fine but lots of features you'd expect from phone are simply not there14:14
Termanaauenf, how so?14:14
jarkkomAPI is really limited as well14:14
auenf(version number increase == improvement)14:14
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TermanaAlso, wtf kind of marketing manager do Microsoft have14:14
TermanaWindows Phone 7? Seriously?14:14
nidOmissing obvious features doesnt exactly mean a device will fail14:14
TermanaWhat kind of f-ed up name is that!?14:14
crashanddie_I loved the TV-ads14:14
nidOiOS couldnt be a more obvious example14:15
crashanddie_Translation: "Get a life, get a phone you don't care about. Windows 7"14:15
jarkkomit's huge improvement over wm6.5 anyway14:15
* timeless_xchat spoke w/ a guy from ms last week14:15
timeless_xchathe explained the c+p omission14:15
timeless_xchatthe explanation is actually reasonable14:15
timeless_xchatbasically most times people don't c+p to notepad14:16
crashanddie_What, they forgot the ctrl key?14:16
Termanatimeless_xchat, humour me14:16
jarkkomit's not feature you'll need _that_ often anyway14:16
timeless_xchatthey c+p to load a url in a browser14:16
nidOwell the automated interlinking it has instead is pretty decent and in most cases a lot less clunky than c+p, from the brief tryout iv had with it14:16
timeless_xchator to load an address in maps14:16
crashanddie_yes, and?14:16
timeless_xchatthe idea then is to save people from doing c+p14:16
auenferr, iphone os 3 added c+p14:16
timeless_xchatby providing what they actually want14:16
auenfso that means users DO want c+P right?14:17
timeless_xchatload url14:17
timeless_xchatopen maps14:17
nidOcrashanddie_: the point is that for most people c+p is a means to an end14:17
crashanddie_timeless, so instead of allowing people to forcibly do an action, they're going to rely on recognition to find addresses, phones numbers, etc?14:17
nidOwp7 just provides the end (that most people want) directly, and removes the c+p part14:17
* timeless_xchat goes to drop off lunch tray14:17
Termanatimeless_xchat, that explanation also conveniently overlooks the restriction placed on it14:17
TermanaJust sayin.14:17
timeless_xchattermana: so...14:17
TermanaThey could have both14:17
timeless_xchatthey had research numbers14:17
crashanddie_so, whenever an address isn't properly formatted, as soon as the detection fails, people get buttfucked14:17
nidOthey could, and theyve already said they will14:17
timeless_xchatms doesn't need to do small samples14:17
timeless_xchatthey have *large* samples14:18
SuRfDeMoNWhy does the latest Maemo update require the PC suite ? :(14:18
timeless_xchatjust like google14:18
crashanddie_SuRfDeMoN, it doesn't14:18
timeless_xchatsurfdemon: because you broke your system14:18
nidOSuRfDeMoN: because you either have not enoufh rootfs, or an incompatible package installed, most likely libgles1 from at least 1 game you have installed14:18
crashanddie_~tell SuRfDeMoN about pr1.314:18
crashanddie_~tell SuRfDeMoN about flashing14:18
jarkkomhas there been any news if Maemo5 is getting qtmobility 1.1?14:19
SuRfDeMoNcool, it just kept telling me to use pc suite... seemed stupid a linux based device requires software that only runs on windows to update14:20
SuRfDeMoNthanks for the info I will take a look at it :)14:20
dazoAnyone know how I set the default calendar in the calendar app?  I got 3 calendars active, and it always chooses the one I'm least interested in adding events into ...14:21
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chibi-taigai cant get my radio fixed T.T14:25
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andaxchibi-taiga: is bluetooth on?14:27
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chibi-taigayes its automatic14:28
chibi-taigaError: Cannot Load FM driver14:30
chibi-taigais what i gert14:30
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andaxhmm, radio needs phone cable as antenna, maybe it wants that cable prior to loading the fm driver14:33
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andaxchibi-taiga: have you installed stable version of radio?14:35
andaxmaybe you need to reinstall14:36
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DocScrutinizerandax: read backscroll, we discussed it ~2h ago. The radio driver isn't compatible with your kernel, I'd guess14:38
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sivanghey RST38h14:42
andaxDocScrutinizer: ah, i see, then chibli-taiga needs to look for the appropriate kernel14:42
sivangRST38h: I was just hi'ing14:43
* RST38h feels sorry for AllAboutSymbian guys14:43
andaxchibli-taiga ^14:43
sivangRST38h: all about symbian?14:43
sivangRST38h: re arstechnica article?14:43
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RST38hHow do they manage to produce such cheerful, positive articles, with the straight face?14:43
* sivang googles14:43
andaxohwhyme, he is gone14:43
saahlehapt-get remove modest removed 8 packages. apt-get install modest installed only 1 (modest). is this right?14:44
sivangsaahleh: hmm14:44
saahleh(got every 10 sec an error: 'internal error, application 'e-mail' closed)14:45
RST38hsaahleh: Well, you are not saying which packages have been removed...14:45
sivangsaahleh: tos package were dependeing on it, do apt-cache rdepends on modest14:46
sivangsaahleh: see what you miss14:46
sivangsaahleh: reinstall, possibly14:46
sivangmy 2c14:46
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andax[X] turned off xchat nick auto completion14:49
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TermanaSome applications on the iPhone/iPod Touch have horribly insecure in-app for purchase access. For example one application lists links the the content in a text file in it's folder that can be used to download the content for free and then all you need to do is rename it and copy it into a particular folder on the device14:55
TermanaIncredible :p14:55
javispedroTermana: you know, 90% of iPhone users don't have access to its full filesystem14:56
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Termanajavispedro, that's true (well, I don'14:56
Termanastupid enter key14:56
javispedroand for those who have, virtually no DRM will stop them.14:56
Termanajavispedro, that's true (well, I don't know about the particular statistic of 90% but anyway)14:56
javispedrocompletely made up14:57
javispedrobut I'd guess a similar number.14:57
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Termanajavispedro, anyhow I would still consider better protective measures against my content rather than just slap downloadable links in a text file.14:57
Termana(If I was this particular company)14:58
Termana(And endorsed such measures)14:58
javispedropossibly embed strings in binary to stop a 1% of users14:58
saahlehback again. reinstalling the deps. Will see.14:58
javispedrobtw, morning.14:58
Termanagood morning :p14:59
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jarkkommost of the time you cannot stop determined piracy anyway, so you just do minimum effort to deter casual pirates15:00
marmoute_until determined pirate provide casual one a way to do it casualy15:02
javispedrothen you make it slightly more difficult15:02
javispedrorinse and repeat.15:03
marmoute_and more you fight with pirate more it's pain for legal user.15:03
TermanaThe thing is, I thought they would at least make a check to make sure you purchased the content before downloading it from their servers. No such thing. In fact it will even update the content for you if they have been updated15:03
Termanas/they/the content15:04
javispedroTermana: possibly breaks their CDN15:04
javispedroor makes it more expensive15:04
javispedroso they thought "not worth it".15:04
saahlehmutt isn't available, is it?15:04
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marmoute_saahleh: mutt have trouble with the N900 term setting.15:05
marmoute_They is a work around but I don't remember which15:05
saahlehi've got 'fork failed' errors.15:05
saahlehwhats that?15:06
* javispedro loves "I'm porting Blackberry Messenger to the N900 but I have no coding experience"15:06
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Robot101javispedro: is that with a telepathy backend, or a paintbrush mockup? :)15:10
RST38hjavispedro: so, what is his progress?15:10
javispedronone whatsoever, by the 7th page he already stopped because of "unforeseen legal issues" (??)15:11
saahlehbegin to think reflashing is the best option... :(15:11
RST38hjavispedro: omg15:11
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javispedro*6th page15:17
psycho_oreoshow does one go about installing python2.5-qt4-common (= 4.7.4-maemo0) when one has 4.7.5-maemo1 installed? seems like it needs an older copy15:18
psycho_oreosnevermind, it seems to be in extras-devel15:20
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MohammadAG51javispedro, BB messenger has no API, you need to reverse engineer the crap15:22
javispedroin fact, "port" seems to underrate the amount of work to be done with a 2000%.15:22
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nidOMohammadAG51: that was rather what he was told in the thread, he assumed he could just port whatsapp or similar and several other people in the thread joined him, without any real realisation that they arent actually BBM atall, which is unportable.15:23
MohammadAG51nidO, there is, for BB devices :P15:23
jonwilGood luck porting BBM to anything that isnt BlackBerry15:24
MohammadAG51you don't need luck, it won't happen15:24
jonwilCan anyone tell me if the current firmware for the N900 has any binary kernel modules?15:25
jonwilAlso, how does the graphics stack work?15:25
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MohammadAG51jonwil, kernel is fully open15:26
jonwilthats what I thought to be the case15:26
jonwilthats good news since (unlike Android) we are not tied to kernels from Nokia15:27
jonwiland can run newer kernels if we want :)15:27
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javispedroopen is half of what's needed.15:27
jonwilyeah someone needs to port it :)15:27
jonwilI am very close to pulling the plunge on a N900 as soon as I have enough money to buy one15:27
javispedrowhich has fortunately happened...15:27
jonwilsince it seems like the most open phone you can buy that's actually usable in the real world15:28
jonwilplus it has physical QWERTY which I really like :)15:28
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javispedrothe 3d stack is entirely closed. since you asked...15:29
krayonjonwil: I can tell you I find it more usable and useful than my OpenMoko Freerunner :/15:29
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jonwilis N900 using X?15:29
SpeedEvilkrayon: have you tried latest SHRs though?15:29
SpeedEviljonwil: yes15:29
nidOsigh, cheating search engines is much more complex than it used to be :<15:29
jonwil3D stack being closed was what I thought to be the case15:30
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jonwilsince there is no-one producing GPUs for ARM that are open15:31
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krayonSpeedEvil: Last one I used was from September15:32
jonwilAll the info I am getting is very much making me decide on N900 rather than HTC Desire Z15:32
SpeedEvilOne thing that may influence some is the almost total lack of commercial apps on the n900.15:32
jonwilI dont care about the lack of commercial apps15:33
jonwilsince I dont plan on spending money on apps15:33
SpeedEvilOTOH - you can setup the right repos - and apt-get install build-essentials15:33
SpeedEvil(you probably actually don't want to do that as it fills up / - but still)15:33
nidOlack of commercial apps does also apply to a lack of commercial *free* apps15:33
jonwildoes N900 support memory card expansion?15:33
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psycho_oreosvia microSD cards, yes15:34
alteregoIt has a micro sd card15:34
saahleh-reader :)15:34
alteregoAnd a 32G internal MMC so ..15:34
jonwil32G is nice, much better than my Motorola Z615:35
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jonwilI do not think I will buy HTC Desire Z, not when the only way to load a custom kernel is to use a bug in userland to gain root access, then load a custom kernel module to unlock the flash memory then flash a custom bootloader and then only after that can you flash a new kernel15:36
MohammadAG51X-Fade, repos down?15:36
jonwilN900 can replace the kernel without any special hacks or work15:36
MohammadAG51a friend's getting hash sum mismatch15:36
jonwilThe fact that I dont have to learn all sorts of fancy new stuff to program N900 (i.e. Java on Android or .NET on Windows Phone) is another plus :)15:37
saahlehIt's only because of linux i've got the N900.15:38
saahlehOnly wished i could run gentoo on it :)15:38
jonwilWhat host environment do you need on the desktop to write apps for the N900?15:38
jonwilyeah, Gentoo on a phone would be the ultimate in open :P15:38
krayonjonwil: Yeah it's pretty sweet to be able to just move your linux apps straight over15:38
krayonjonwil: And OMG it's awesome to say "oh, I'll solve this with a bash script" :P15:38
jonwilAlthough you wouldnt want to try an emerge world over a cellular data link :P15:39
MohammadAG51then realize bash is missing15:39
alteregojonwil: you can develop on all the major platforms.15:39
alteregoIt's obviously nicer (imo) to do it on Linux though15:39
javispedrojonwil: saahleh: you can run whatever you want; of course do not later complain if the phone does not work under Gentoo.15:39
jonwilheh :P15:39
jonwilCan I do all development for N900 (new kernel etc) on Windows XP or would I need to get my Gentoo box working again?15:40
saahlehskype and sip works under gentoo :)15:40
javispedrojonwil: you can do as you wish but doing that might be potentially a much daunting task that just setting up a VM15:41
saahlehA new gcc-version would be a problem too... 1d4h on my laptop for emerge -e world...15:42
RST38hExcept that the actual topic of #maemo is...well...Maemo15:42
javispedrowrong channel!15:42
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saahleh:) moving to gentoo15:42
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jonwilI have quite a few app ideas already for if/when I get my N90015:45
alteregoCool, tell me and I'll sell them to you :P15:46
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jonwilI intend to have a go at playing with the Google Transit Feed data my local transit company makes available15:47
jonwilBe nice to have an app on the phone so I dont need to ring the information line all the time for various things15:47
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alteregoBoring :P15:48
alterego(I'm only saying that because I have no idea what you're on about)15:48
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jonwilits about public transport15:49
jonwili.e. buses and trains15:49
jonwilGoogle developed a spec for data such as routes, stops, fares, timetables etc and my local public transport company provides data in this format15:49
jonwilwhich is nice since I take the bus and train everywhere15:50
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saahlehjust take a bicycle...15:50
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jonwilI live too far from the places I go to take the bike15:51
jonwilplus I dont own a bike15:51
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jonwilIf I was to buy a bike, I couldn't afford the N90015:51
mtnmanhello all15:52
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saahlehBut don't think it's offline useable. In my own city i always take my bike. If i'm traveling in my country i don't need it. I know where to look to get the times.15:53
mtnmanit seems that my n900 has started running an access point and dhcp server... anyone know how this may have started and how to turn it off?15:53
saahlehBut in a foreign country, i need it, but don't have a cheap internet connection15:53
saahlehAhh, for 25 euro's you can have a bike.15:54
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saahlehAnd don't go so far :)15:54
jonwilBikes are expensive here in Australia15:55
jonwilplus there is nowhere safe at work to store bikes15:55
mtnmanused bikes are usually a good value15:56
saahlehI'm missing a good sync appl. Just sync my cal, mail todo's etc by usb, bluetooth, wifi with my laptop.15:56
Neccyou mean ovi suite?15:56
saahlehOnly way is to set up a egroupware server, and even that don't work (my webserver hasn't enabled pear...)15:56
krayonjonwil: In the City (Melbourne, dunno about others) they are rolling out those bike racks with bikes you can use and return elsewhere, hire bikes if you will :P15:56
saahlehovi suite for linux?15:57
jonwilMelbourne yes15:57
jonwilPerth no15:57
Neccsure? :p15:57
* f3ew thinks that public transport in his city has a timetable15:57
* mtnman prefers to ride his own bike, use his own computer, etc.15:57
jonwilPerth is too backwards to think of something like that15:57
Termanajonwil: Perth is so bad15:57
Termanajonwil, Oprah didn't visit there!15:57
jonwilBig deal, Oprah is just some TV star15:58
jonwilI dont even watch that junk15:58
TermanaDid I need to explicitly use my sarcasm tags?15:59
mtnmanthe fact that oprah did not visit there speaks volumes (in a positive way)15:59
TermanaBesides, SA is obviously the greatest state. Our current Prime Minister was raised in SA!15:59
lardmanSouth Australia?16:00
lardmanah yes, /me sees what's going on16:00
* lardman also agrees as most of his familiy members live there16:01
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Termanalardman, yes it's the Australian state that you know, is in the South part of Australia.16:01
TermanaDoesn't have our southest point however16:02
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TermanaBut no one cares about Tasmania, so it's cool16:02
jonwilWhat is media playback on N900 like?16:02
Termana:p (Kidding)16:02
jonwiloh wait, its linux so it should have a FFMPEG port16:02
jonwilwhich means it can play anything known to man :P16:02
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lardmansearch on TMO16:03
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SpeedEviljonwil: mplayer is there - but the inbuild media player is OK for me, and can use a lot less battery, as it has hardare accellertionfor some codecs.16:05
jonwilcan the inbuilt media player do OGG?16:05
jonwilOGG audio specifically16:06
Termana"Note I am MAC user and as such" - I already know I shouldn't read this post on t.m.o16:06
lardmanyes, if you add the gstreamer plugin and twiddle the settings so it's recognised16:07
lardmanit's not accelerated though16:07
lardmanagain, take a look on TMO16:07
lardmanin fact I think all that stuff is probably packaged up now, so also take a look at the repos16:07
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mtnmanthere is an ogg add on, but support is not available out of the box16:09
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mtnmanhow can i turn off the dhcp server that is now running on my n900?  i have no idea how it got started.16:16
marmoute_/etc/init.d/dhcpd stop16:18
mtnmanmarmoute sure, but how about why is it there in the first place?  there also seems to be a process providing a wireless access point16:19
nidOthat would indicate you installed mobilehotspot or joikuspot.16:20
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mtnmannido: not to my knowledge, but i'll check if either one is installed16:21
nidOif you've magically managed to get a wifi ap running on the device without either of those two though, the rest of the n900 community would love to know how16:21
marmoute_use "dpkg -S" to know from where a file come from16:22
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jonwilCan you use the data connection of a N900 over USB from a PC?16:23
* mtnman hands nido his spare magic wand and a good bit of "abracadabra"16:23
marmoute_% 15:22 marmoute@kraken ~ > dpkg -S /usr/bin/hg-ssh16:23
marmoute_mercurial-common: /usr/bin/hg-ssh16:23
nidOjonwil: theoretically yes16:23
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jonwilJust trying to think of all the things I do with my Motorola Z6 and making sure I can still do them on the N900 :)16:24
nidOOvi suite supports both usb and bluetooth for the n900's data connection, personally i've never managed to get usb to work properly though, but plenty of people have16:24
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SpeedEvilI've used the n900 to stream video to my laptop over 3g whenmy DSL was down yesterday16:28
lcukSpeedEvil, i use my n900 3g to connect to my home computer when my wifi goes offline :P16:28
nidOI had to rely on my n900's 3g connection over bluetooth for 2 weeks when i recently moved16:28
nidOnever wanted to bash my own head in so much in my entire life16:29
mtnmanok well dhcp is not running anymore, but i'm offered a wireless connection called K1500-KGABC123 which is being provided by the n90016:29
mtnmanneither mobile hotspot nor joikuspot shows in the application manager16:31
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SpeedEvilar eyou sure?16:32
SpeedEvildoes it go away if you power off the n90016:32
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mtnmanK1500-KGABC123 shows up on a mac's network config as an available "device" (using a friend's old mac til i repair the p/s on my debian system)16:33
mtnmanspeedevil: if you are talking to me what are you asking if i am sure of?16:34
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nidOthat 1) you have neither of those applications are installed and 2) that the ap is being provided by your n90016:35
crashanddie_mtnman, what version of OSX is it running?16:35
crashanddie_mtnman, when I plug-in my N900 to my mac, it just offers to connect an N90016:35
SpeedEvilmtnman: that you have confirmed that the n900 is providing the hot-spot by turning it off16:35
mtnmanwell i checked the application manager, but haven't checked with dpkg to see if the packages are installed.  they don't show up in application manager.  the ap shows up on a mac's network config as an available "device"16:36
mtnmanwell yes, i have rebooted several times and the hotspot has followed me all day as i travelled across the county (not country!)16:36
SpeedEvilIs there a PC you're also traveling with?16:37
mtnmanOS X 10.5.816:37
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SpeedEvilwindows can do this16:37
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mtnmanno pc, thankfully, and my debian system has a broken p/s16:37
SpeedEvilAlso - turning off the n900 checks that it's not the MAC reporting something bogus16:38
SpeedEvilAlso - acting as an AP will drain the batteries in 4-6 hours, idle.16:38
SpeedEvilso if you're battery has not drained in that time, it's unlikely16:38
mtnmanpower spply16:38
mtnmanok then why does this show up on the network selector for the 900 and the mac?16:39
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SpeedEvilturn off the n90016:39
SpeedEvilwhat happens16:39
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mtnmanok speedevil when i rebooted it the same thing was going on.  if you want i can shut it off again.16:40
mtnmani turned it off overnight and when i started it in the morning, it was still broadcasting16:40
nidOhe said turn it off, not reboot it - as in switch it off, and see if the device is still there on your mac with the n900 turned off16:40
mtnmanit _was_ turned off overnight, but i am shutting down again to please  you16:41
SpeedEvilIt doesn't please me.16:41
SpeedEvilPleasing me would require chocolate cake.16:41
jacekowskimtnman: remove battery and check if network is still there16:42
mtnmanthere is an app for that16:42
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer, went to a real estate company to get some price ideas. They asked how much I was earning, and immediately tried to sell me a 600k place. WTF?16:42
mtnman(choc cake)16:42
jacekowskimtnman: if it's still there then your macshit is a piece of shit16:42
* mtnman is not a mac fan, prefers debian goodness16:42
jacekowskicrashanddie_: they get paid by commision16:42
crashanddie_jacekowski, no, really?16:42
crashanddie_wow, I can hardly believe that, next we're going to hear that investment bankers are on commission as well!16:43
mtnmanreal estate people are really hurting these days.16:43
crashanddie_mtnman, depends which country16:43
SpeedEvilIs 600k a big place where you are?16:43
SpeedEvilSome places that wil get you a mansion.16:43
SpeedEvilSome places a small flat.16:44
crashanddie_SpeedEvil, it's OK, probably a main house with summer house, swimming pool, 6 bedrooms16:44
mtnmanok n900 shut down, the ap is no longer appearing as a choice on the mac network selector thingie.  i have not pulled the battery.16:44
crashanddie_maybe it's a coincidence, and the AP was deactivated just at that time?16:45
crashanddie_You should keep the n900 offline for an hour to make sure.16:45
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mtnmancrashanddie_ the ap "followed" me on a 40 minute bus ride, and a walk from there to my home.   i don't think an hour is going to make me any surer that ap is from the n90016:46
crashanddie_mtnman, sarcasm. Google it.16:46
crashanddie_jacekowski, to be honest, I was actually more thinking around something of 150-200k16:47
crashanddie_which is what any sane real estate agent should be doing, someone comes in to ask for prices, multiply their gross yearly salary by three, and those are the houses you show them16:47
lardmanmight not work in the UK, or are you thinking specifically investment bankers?16:48
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crashanddie_nope, me.16:48
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lardmanI think that estate agents have no clue16:49
crashanddie_lardman, thing is, at 60k a year, I can hope at best to repay 15k a year. So it would take me... 40 years to repay a 600k house.16:50
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lardmanthat's normal-ish16:50
lardmanyou're young enough for that length of mortgage anyway16:50
crashanddie_Normal in my book is 20, 25 years16:50
mtnmanok after shutting down, waiting a few minutes, and starting up, ap K1500-KGABC123 shows as an available network from the n900, but is not showing up on the mac's network selector.16:50
crashanddie_lardman, it's too risky an investment frankly16:51
lcukcrashanddie_, you forget about interest rates.16:51
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crashanddie_lcuk, indeed16:51
lcukso even if you go for the lesser house16:51
lcukyou will still pay the same :P16:51
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lardmancrashanddie_: of course, but the estate agents just want you to buy something16:51
crashanddie_well, they're idiots16:51
lardmanas I said above16:51
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crashanddie_It's just so frigging lame everyone these days is just hoping to make OMG MONIES, rather than providing people with actual service.16:52
nidOwell its them it backfires on, because instead of a 200k sale, they end up with no sale.16:52
nidOso let them keep it up, and theyll either learn or go bust16:52
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mtnmansomeone should clue them in about the bird in the hand vs. two in the bush16:53
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MohammadAG51finally, a pair of headphones16:56
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javispedroso, Nokia's Senior VP of Symbian doesn't understand all the Symbian bashing? :)17:03
RST38hjavispedro: He is prohibited form understanding by his job position17:03
Pauly_i need help i have windows 7 x64 and cant seem to get usb mass storage working with n90017:03
RST38hOk, not he, she17:03
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lardmanPauly_: works for me17:05
javispedroshe's confirming that the Meego and Symbian groups only talk about UI design :)17:05
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Pauly_every time i put it in windows says cant recognize usb device17:06
Pauly_or something like that17:06
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RST38hjavispedro: ?17:06
rmrfchikPauly_: my win7x64 works fine17:07
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mtnmanrmrfchik: im sure that is very comforting to him :D17:07
rmrfchikPauly_: anyway, why u need it as mass storage? can't you use pc-suite mode?17:07
Pauly_idk when i use he ubuntu live cd on this machine works fine?17:07
Pauly_but not windows 717:08
Pauly_dont work either?17:08
lardmando other mass storage devices work?17:08
rmrfchikmtnman: sure, because flashing don't work in 7x64. and my info makes sure that usb-storage working17:08
Pauly_ughh  windows17:09
javispedroRST38h: "And at many different levels between Symbian and MeeGo there is discussion on how do we make functionality the best... let's take NFC for example, or Voice UI ..."17:09
rmrfchikPauly_: try to update drivers in windows for this device17:09
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Pauly_theres no potion for that17:10
lcukPauly_, try using a different usb port perhaps17:10
Pauly_i keep cycling trough 6 of em17:10
lcuksounds like you have fscked up the ports, it used to be really easy to send windows into such a tiz17:11
lardmanwhat does device manager say about the device?17:12
rmrfchikPauly_: open device manager, locate usb device, click properties, click "Update" or sometjinjg like this17:13
MohammadAG51can't seek in music17:13
MohammadAG51Unable to seek stream17:13
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MohammadAG51I think i broke a gstreamer package while trying to get DVDs working17:14
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RST38hjavispedro: I think she is too high in the hierarchy to understand what she is talking about :((17:14
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RST38hjavispedro: Because sure as hell, Meego and Symbian will NOT share NFS driver or most of the NFC stack17:15
Pauly_i give up17:15
rmrfchikPauly_: you can't find device manager? ;)17:15
lardmanPauly_: device manager?17:15
Pauly_it says windows has the most up to date software for unknown device17:15
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* javispedro fortunately has no idea what NFC is17:15
rmrfchikRST38h: what is NFC?17:15
crashanddie_near field communication17:15
crashanddie_smartcards and such17:15
lardmanwhat is the VID/PID returned for the device?17:16
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jacekowskivendor id and product id17:16
Pauly_thanks anyways17:16
Pauly_i hate my pc17:16
RST38hNFC is a built-in rfid chip for payments on the fly17:17
jacekowskiwhat is a problem?17:17
crashanddie_erhm, no it's not17:17
lardmanjacekowski: I know, I'm asking Pauly_17:17
crashanddie_NFC is just an umbrella name for any wireless technology that can only be activated within 4 inches or so17:17
RST38hcrashanddie: In Nokia speak, as far as I can see by current products, it is just an rfid chip17:18
crashanddie_yes, but NFC has nothing to do with payments17:18
crashanddie_be it Nokia-speak or otherwise17:18
RST38hNot that it wasn't useful of course, I like paying tolls with my phone :)17:18
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RST38hcrashanddie: that is the most commonly proposed usage17:18
Pauly_is it HArdware IDs17:18
RST38hcrashanddie: in fact, may be the only one17:18
crashanddie_RST38h, really?17:18
javispedroRST38h: oh. why do I suddenly envision a heavily bearded  man boasting stuff about "portable tracking devices"17:18
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Pauly_usb/unknown comes  up17:19
Pauly_ thanks so much but i give up17:19
Pauly_maybe later17:19
RST38hcrashanddie: Try remembering any mentions of other uses in the press17:19
crashanddie_RST38h, so, opening an office door with your cellphone is out of the question? A lot more people use that than any other NFC use-case in the world.17:19
RST38hcrashanddie: ok but it is still the same rfid thing17:19
crashanddie_not exactly17:20
jacekowskicrashanddie_: all rfid chips can be cloned17:20
jacekowskicrashanddie_: so far nobody produced safe technology for that17:20
crashanddie_NFC for payments is going to require encryption and stuff like that17:20
jacekowskicrashanddie_: well, mifare17:20
jacekowskicrashanddie_: all transport payment systems17:20
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jacekowskilobster cards17:20
lardmanPauly_: if it can't see the VID/PID, the problem lies quite low down17:20
RST38hcrash: Is your credit card number encrypted on that magnetic strip?17:20
jacekowskiand similiar thing17:20
lardmanand nothing to do with the N90017:20
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crashanddie_my previous company was working on a standard that would allow to exchange arbitrary information over the air17:21
jacekowskiRST38h: there is a difference between radio that everybody can read and magnetic17:21
RST38hjacekowski: *4 inches*17:21
javispedro... magnetic that everybody can ready :)17:21
RST38hSo, no, no difference17:21
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javispedroreadily read.17:21
jacekowskiRST38h: pffffff17:21
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jacekowskiRST38h: mifare can do only one inch17:21
jacekowskiRST38h: but you can read it with sensitive antenna from couple meters17:22
RST38hjacekowski: crash said NFC is defined as 4-inches or less17:22
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jacekowskiRST38h: operation range17:22
jacekowskiRST38h: but anybody with sensitive antenna can recieve transmission between base device and card17:22
jacekowskiRST38h: from couple meters distance17:22
RST38hThat is an hw engineering problem to resolve isn';t it?17:22
crashanddie_RST38h, good read on the subject:
jacekowskiit can't be resolved17:22
jacekowskiunless you would shield everything17:23
RST38htoo damn long to copy =(17:23
jacekowskiso card has to be inside of RF shield17:23
jacekowskibut then you can as well use contact cards17:23
jacekowskiand don't have that problem at all17:23
rmrfchikRST38h: you have no, emmm, mouse? ;)17:23
crashanddie_RST38h, I helped writing the RFC for that17:24
javispedromouse on an N900?17:24
RST38hrmrfchik: No in SSH client window, it does not copy across the lines properly17:24
MohammadAG51javispedro, sure, it works17:24
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rmrfchikRST38h: ahh. i use gvim.exe for copy-paste-join when I on windows17:24
javispedroI know, but not common.17:24
MohammadAG51what handles seeking music?17:24
jacekowskiRST38h: unless you do heavy encryption in card that's powered only by radio waves ( which is complicated if it has to be cheap at the same time )17:24
MohammadAG51javispedro, more common than mice on the N817:24
jacekowskiRST38h: everybody can hack it with hardware worth less than £100 + laptop17:25
rmrfchikjavispedro: well, n900 terminal handles copy=paste well17:25
crashanddie_jacekowski, it doesn't have to be cheap17:25
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jacekowskiRST38h: or n90017:25
jacekowskicrashanddie_: if it's for mass use it will have to be cheap17:25
crashanddie_jacekowski, most cards cost at about $8-18 each17:25
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jacekowskicrashanddie_: cost of making chip&magnetic credit card is under £217:25
crashanddie_cost maybe, but what the banks buy them for is $8 for the cheapest crpa17:25
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crashanddie_if you want to go higher than your bog standard 1024 keys, you need to dash out cash17:26
jacekowskiin poland many years ago when you had to use magnetic card sort of thing for payphones on street17:26
jacekowskicheapest card to buy was 5pln and that worked at under £117:26
crashanddie_well, MAGNETIC17:27
jacekowskiand that included 5pln worth of credit17:27
nidOand they were magnetic17:27
nidOthey didnt have a chip as well17:27
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jacekowskilater they started making them chip without magnetic17:27
crashanddie_and even if they have chips, it's the cryptoprocessor inside the chip that's expensive17:27
jacekowskiand then cheapest one is just 10pln17:27
jacekowskiwhich is £217:27
crashanddie_don't forget that old phonecards were just a bunch of transistors that the phonebooth would burn through to remove credit17:28
jacekowskinew ones17:28
crashanddie_no, those were the old chip ones17:28
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crashanddie_in use in France since the late 70s17:29
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crashanddie_France has had a chip-n-pin bank cards since the mid 80s17:29
jacekowskiyeah, new ones like these used in poland are full digital electronic17:29
crashanddie_jacekowski, though, if you want the price, call the UK-based activity office, and tell them you're from any police-force in the UK, and you need to replenish your stock of cards17:30
crashanddie_you'll see what the pricing is17:30
jacekowskiand that's using proper cryptography ( system is still secure, after 10+ years since they removed magnetic cards )17:30
jacekowskiand cheapest card you can buy is 10pln including 10pln of credit17:31
jacekowskiso manufacturing cost has to be under that17:31
crashanddie_they don't use proper cryptography mate17:31
crashanddie_I mean, trust me on this, I used to implement these systems and still consult on a regular basis for these companies17:32
crashanddie_There is no company in the world that sells phone cards with cryptoprocessors on them. None, zit, nada.17:32
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crashanddie_They can't even afford to get good cryptoprocessors in their SIM cards, do you honestly expect them to have proper security in anything their margin is even lower on?17:33
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crashanddie_A pretty big insurance company rolled out 8000 smartcards for its employees without changing the smartcard master key -- anyone with a copy of the specific smartcard issuance software they used was able to modify the contents on the card.17:35
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crashanddie_security is at an abysmal level these days. And anyone with a decent understanding of electronics, and encryption/handshaking processes, plus a bit of hardware at his disposal (mainly card readers) could make a pretty nice living if he so desired17:36
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jacekowskiof or like an abyss; immeasurably deep or great.17:37
jacekowskiextremely or hopelessly bad or severe: abysmal ignorance; abysmal poverty.17:37
jacekowskidefinition 1 or 2?17:37
crashanddie_You know all the tolls in Europe? You can get through them with a hotel keycard. Don't need to skim anyone's card, you can make up a number17:38
crashanddie_The only number you need to get right are the 4 first digits on the card, which indicates the bank17:38
jacekowskinot really17:38
crashanddie_yes, really.17:38
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jacekowskion some of them you have to pay cash17:38
jacekowskiand there is no electronic option17:38
crashanddie_ok, automated tolls then17:38
Shapeshifteryou say it's been bettr in th past?17:38
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crashanddie_I'm speaking of mainland europea, not polack land17:39
javispedroalso, you can fake metro passes on most spanish cities =)17:39
jacekowskidartford crossing17:39
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RST38h[state-of-factly] Discovery, arrest, conviction, deportation to .PL17:39
crashanddie_basically: as long as the toll system doesn't get to call in to your bank on the spot, you're good17:39
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crashanddie_so 90% of highway tolls in Europe, 99% in USA17:40
RST38hjavispedro: Washington Metro had the same data written to the ticket in both directions, so that the card could be inserted either way or something17:40
RST38hjavispedro; For a while, people used that to get double rides17:40
crashanddie_RST38h, yeah, the same thing was done in Kiev or some eastern city. Basically, at the exit of the station, you would give your ticket to someone who was traveling in the opposite direction17:41
RST38hcrash: No, that is different17:41
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crashanddie_well, yeah, but same principle -- re-use of same ticket17:42
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RST38hcrash: Nope17:42
RST38hcrash: What you are describing is possible when the gate lets you out of the station for free if you are leaving the same station you entered17:43
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RST38hcrash: It is a really not a technological approach, rather epxloiting a policy loophole17:43
javispedroand even considering how deadly easy is to fake a metro pass, I wonder why people don't do it more often instead of simply not having any pass, risking the Eur50 fine.17:43
crashanddie_erhm, no, that's not what I was talking about17:43
RST38hcrash: Dunno about Kiev, but Moscow metro gates charge you at the entrance17:44
RST38hcrash: So, not possible, at least not here17:44
Shapeshifterjavispedro: what kind of pass? faking one is a serious offence afaik17:44
javispedroit is, but it is also more harder to detect.17:45
crashanddie_RST38h, jacekowski: another document that might be of interested:
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sjkHey! What's the secret repository I should add to app manager to be able to download stuff like zip/unzip?17:49
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Mecesjk, testing it seems:
crashanddie_sjk, please use ~ping rather than pinging people randomly17:51
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Termanacrashanddie_, how do like that?17:51
crashanddie_[KB `Termana@#maemo] [y/n]17:52
Termanacrashanddie_, strange. I CTCP FINGER'ed you17:53
ShapeshifterI have a problem on my n900. I've got 68mb free rootf, 4.1gb opt. Yet when I try to download something in microb to a folder in opt, e.g. .documents I get an error 'not enough memory in target location'. and that error just sticks in front of microb and doesn't even go away. I have to killall -9 browserd. in opera, the download simply never starts. and today, HAM told me it can't install some updates because of lacking space17:53
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Termanacrashanddie_, feel good to be FINGER'ed?17:53
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crashanddie_that's enough17:53
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javispedroyou're evil.17:53
lcukShapeshifter, hm17:53
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javispedroyou're unevil.17:53
lcukdid you alter size of /home partition17:53
lcukcos you shouldnt have 4.1gb in opt17:54
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sjkWhy, oh why, is there not a zsh package? :)17:54
TermanaWell, anyway, with that - I'm going to bed. Good night all17:54
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Shapeshifterlcuk: I didn't mess with the partitioning at all17:55
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Shapeshifteruh sorry, I meant 4.1gb in mydocs17:55
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lcukShapeshifter, so, how much space for /home | opt then? :)17:56
Shapeshifteropt has 153mb. but .documents is in MyDocs....17:56
Shapeshifterand microb and opera fail at downloading files of like 1mb17:57
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n900-spacei just got my n900 back from a friend18:00
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n900-spacehe had it for 2 weeks, and i just noticed he has installed pr1.3 on it18:00
n900-spaceand the device is snappy :)18:01
n900-spacei'm luving it18:01
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kerion900-space: how could you do that18:07
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kerioi wouldn't give my n900 away to save my mother's life18:07
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n900-spacewell, it was away for a month actually18:07
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n900-space2 weeks to 1 friend and then he posted an excellent review of it and the other close friend he wants it for a week18:08
n900-spacehe kept it for 218:08
n900-spacei'm luvin it today :$18:08
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psycho_oreosI've noticed they've tried to push PR1.3 update through OTA, even if you didn't explicitly set to install the new PR1.3 packages.. it seems like the dependencies of the packages link back to PR1.3 so basically its to me forced :)18:13
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: yep18:43
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DocScrutinizerI had not a single working pdate for PR1.2 apps since PR1.3 came out18:44
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, pdate? prior date?18:45
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MohammadAGQt 4.718:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: if you'd were an user of my apps ;)18:46
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* DocScrutinizer wonders whom to give a good let know about that18:48
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realitygapsanyone else having problems adding a 3g connection in pr1.3?18:51
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realitygapsit only lets me add wifi connections and theres no option for packet data18:53
psycho_oreosyou need fapn18:53
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realitygapspsycho_oreos: thx will try that18:53
psycho_oreosrealitygaps, nw18:54
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_trinethe UK update to PR 1.3 worked today19:27
_trine200.2 MB update19:28
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_trineit wipes out everything you had on your phone though19:28
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alteregoWow, I sound like a really nice guy on paper.19:29
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timeless_mbp_trine: you don't need to reflash to do an upgrade19:29
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alteregoMaybe I should add "Serial Killer" to personal interests.19:30
timeless_mbpif you want to do an in place update, you need to ensure your system isn't horribly broken19:30
timeless_mbp1. it must have space for an update.19:30
timeless_mbp2. you must not have removed software the system relies on to do the upgrade19:30
_trineI just followed the update instructions on my phone19:30
timeless_mbp3. you must not have installed software which conflicts with the upgrade (either by depending on versions to be replaced or refusing versions incoming)19:30
* SpeedEvil wonders why there are no parallel killers.19:31
timeless_mbp_trine: your phone would offer you that if it isn't capable of doing an in place upgrade because of 1-319:31
* MohammadAG kills Noobmonk3y with a 200mA pulse19:31
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* timeless_mbp goes off to panic()19:31
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psycho_oreoslet there be bloodshed? behold parallel killers?19:31
* Noobmonk3y dies19:31
_trinetimeless_mbp: it didn't say anything about other options19:31
_trineit just went ahead and up graded19:32
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_trinethen after it was completely erased to new19:32
_trineit's not so bad it's my wifes phone :P19:32
_trineI did hers first19:33
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* MohammadAG kills perverted part of his mind with 20mA pulse19:33
_trinenow I will have to install everything again19:33
MohammadAGsorry, I'm an asshole :P19:33
_trineMohammadAG: is there a new power kernel for 1.3 yet19:34
MohammadAGyes, with hostmode built in19:34
_trineMohammadAG:  sorry my phone just rang bbs19:35
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MohammadAGalterego, central layout can be set at any time right?19:39
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MohammadAGi.e in runtime, it can be reset to something else, right?19:39
alteregoMohammadAG: indeedly19:39
alteregoWell, it always is set at run time :P19:39
MohammadAGyeah, just making sure that it can be set to something else19:40
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alteregoYou'll need to delete the layout you were using though and any children it may contain to prevent a memory leak.19:41
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MohammadAGalterego, even if they're just buttons?19:48
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alteregoIf the buttons are parented to the layout, then if you delete the layout it'll delete all the buttons aswell.19:49
alterego(I don't remember if that's the case though :>19:49
alteregoPretty sure it is.19:49
* alterego asks on #qt ^.^19:50
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alteregoAparrently they're not.19:50
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alteregoCan I recommend creating a QWidget and instead of replacing the layout, replace the QWidget19:52
alteregoThen if you delete the QWidget it'll delete everything associated with it.19:52
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itsfmhi, can anyone tell me what a little piece of paper with a red line through it where normally I would see 3G as a network status means (its next to the battery icon in the status top bar part). and when that showed up SMS stopped working20:00
SpeedEvilSIM error20:01
itsfmany tips on troubleshooting it? I can call out and receive calls and make data connections through t-mobile.20:01
SpeedEvilyou can call out when this happens?20:02
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itsfmya. its been constant 'broken paper' for the last 3 days. I have made plenty of calls, received plenty of calls as well as rebooted the phone several times.20:03
ieatlintitsfm: reseat the sim card and verify the contacts are clean20:03
SpeedEvil\Very odd20:04
itsfmok. I'll try that again. nwo20:04
lardman|homeAny Python experts here?20:04
SpeedEvilIf he (or she) can call out - the SIM is working20:04
ieatlintand yeah, with the sim error you shouldn't be able to call anything but emergency services :P20:04
Maceranybody try easydeb meego yet?20:04
Macerwas just wondering how functional it was20:05
SpeedEvilnot emergency services in the UK20:05
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lardman|homewell anyway, can one use sip to generate bindings for C code, and then cast a python object to said sip generated class?20:07
itsfmthat didn't take care of it. another piece of info.. I have periods where i get floods of sms messages from monitoring systems and it seems like it became a problem when I was getting sms's about as fast as it would take them.20:08
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itsfmany other ideas?20:08
DrWilkencould it be a problem with Your provider?20:08
itsfmI spoke to the provider (t-mobile) and they didn't see anything wrong. also when I try to send it fails right away. doesn't appear to even try to send it just instantly comes up failed to send sms20:08
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javispedroinfobot: do you hate c++?20:11
infobotyes, I hate c++.20:11
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lardman|homeno takers for the Python question then....?20:11
MohammadAGinfobot, do you hate yourself?20:12
infobotyes, I hate yourself.20:12
lizardolardman|home: try asking on #pyqt (if you are using SIP)   or #pyside (if you are using the PySide generator)20:12
lardman|homelizardo: thanks20:12
sivangre all20:14
sivanglardman|home: which python ?20:14
sivanglardman|home: err, which question:)20:14
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lardman|homesivang: trying to implement Python scripting in a Qt app, just wondering if I can use SIP bindings so that I can cast the Python class object to a C++ class and then call methods on it20:17
sivanglardman|home: theoretically you can, but not sure SIP is the good choice for that20:18
sivanglardman|home: I would try and use the what pyside guys have produced, as a binding generator20:18
andaxhow can i check if the wifi sending power? i did set it 10 times lower than default and still have very good signal level 10 meters away from access point behind 2 walls20:18
sivanglardman|home: My own python project got stalled due to bad binding produced by SIP20:18
andaxcheck if its really set20:18
lardman|homethe alternative is to just grab a C++ reference to the Python class object and call the methods on that (in Python) and convert the answers to C++ variables20:19
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lardman|homesivang: I was trying to follow how web2sms got the bindings/Python-scripting-in-C++ working20:19
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_trineMohammadAG: are you still here ?20:19
tobis87andax: iwconfig should show the Tx-Power level20:20
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tobis87or was it the signal, noice level? one of them.20:20
lardman|homethe advantage of casting to a C++ class is that I could use signals and slots, etc. I'll take a look at how PySide does it20:21
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MohammadAG_trine, yes, unavailable for assistance due to fucked up device20:22
Aranelthere was a xterm command to list all installed packages, what was it?20:22
_trineoh dear sorry to hear that20:22
lardman|home looks interesting20:23
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DrWilkenAranel: dpkg -l20:27
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DrWilkenii = installed, rc = configs left over (afair)20:28
lardman|homehmm, problem with my link above is that it requires a Python main(), while I want to call arbitrary Python classes from my C++ main (et al)20:29
* lardman|home curses the many hours he has to spend arsing around with stuff like this and not getting any useful work done20:30
sivanglardman|home: I think this is already done for you through the pyside binding generation, and it was specifically made to allow the signals and slots, hop onto #pyside or mail the mailing list20:30
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lardman|homeok, will try that20:30
sivanglardman|home: the project facilitator is one of the nicest guys I've met , and the brazilian guys are always happy to help and are smart as hell20:30
lardman|homehave to go do some washing up, will ask in a few minutes20:31
sivanglardman|home: PySide is one of the favorites project in Nokia's ecosystem, and allowing others to create more qt style bindings were one of the goals in writing their own binding generator20:31
sivanglardman|home: :)20:31
sivanglardman|home: are you coming to dublin?20:31
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andaxtobis87: i could not find something like Tx-Power:
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* sivang is setting up a lenny chroot, again20:40
andaxshould have been "dpkg -l | grep iwconfig" but doesnt make  a difference20:40
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andaxsivang: wrecked lenny?20:46
sivangandax: well, somehow I always manage to get the chroot halfly working with me having to do stuff like export TERM=xterm and export HOME=.. etc20:52
sivangandax: I follow the same doc everytime and the results are never the same :)20:52
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lardman|homesivang: no, can't make it to Dublin, day job is really busy and I'm not sure if I'll even have my passport handy20:55
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lardman|homein fact I almost certainly won't as I need to send it off tomorrow or the next day20:55
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sivanglardman|home: I see, okay, next time then.20:59
andaxsivang: maybe you separately need to mount dev and proc too for more success20:59
lardman|homesivang: yeah sorry, I originally had a meeting planned for mid-way through the Meego Conf, so hadn't thought I could make it anyway21:00
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MohammadAGif anyone's interested, flashing the N900 takes real1m32.611s21:02
tobis87andax: You need to be root. sudo gainroot and after that iwconfig21:02
MohammadAGas measured by 'time'21:02
sivangandax: yes, doing that after the chroot is ready but on the crapbook it didn't work so well, on the desktop more so :)21:02
sivangMohammadAG: you time the flasher from linux?21:03
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MohammadAGI actually canceled my reflash half way through to measure it21:03
sivangMohammadAG: how did you cancel it half way through and still had usable device afterwards?21:04
MohammadAGyou can't brick it21:04
MohammadAGI canceled it with ^C of course21:05
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sivangMohammadAG: so only on power failure it gets bricked since fs remains inconsistent?21:07
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MohammadAGno, it never gets bricked21:07
andaxtobis87: i am root but there is no iwconfig though21:07
MohammadAGas in, never21:07
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sivangMohammadAG: so how come many people got it bricked during reflash?21:08
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MohammadAGthey don't, they just misuse the term bricked21:09
* MohammadAG wonders why his laptop's CPU's getting raped21:09
MohammadAGfrets on fire, figures21:09
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keriois frets on fire not shit nowadays?21:14
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MohammadAGkerio, it's k21:14
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AranelCan someone check his device to see if there's a or not?21:20 *21:20
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MohammadAGhaven't checked, but it's probably the same as the libhildon-im ones21:23
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tobis87andax: It is part of wireless-tools:
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sivanglardman|home: that's okay, I Know mysefl how it is with work and travel21:33
sivanglardman|home: it is just there are so many names here, who are involved with development, that I'd be nice to meet.21:33
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javispedrowow, according to firefox I've typed on my address bar 1692 times.21:33
sivangjavispedro: interesting21:34
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* Arkenoi tried pigdin (for OTR plugin). OMFG it is ugliness itself.21:36
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AranelMohammadAG: where was it?21:45
AranelMohammadAG: I mean, which directory?21:45
AranelMohammadAG: /usr/lib/ ?21:46
andaxtobis87: it says the package from your link is not compatible and "dpkg -l | grep wireless" gives no result :/21:47
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MohammadAGAranel, can't test, restoring apps21:48
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AranelMohammadAG: ok, thanks ^^21:49
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yaccI wonder if there is a simple way to dim the display from the cmdline?21:53
yaccBasically when I connect USB, I'd like to dim the display (but not lock it, because I need the X11 server to still display something that x11vnc can capture)?21:54
jacekowskiyes there is21:55
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jacekowskibut i don't remember21:56
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: no, hostmode is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer21:58
javispedrowhere do I find hostmode?21:58
AranelLooking for /usr/lib/ - Can somebody kind enough upload it to somewhere? (It should be VERY small file)21:59
javispedrowhere can I find hostmode?21:59
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ??? o.O21:59
javispedrowhere can i find hostmode?21:59
javispedro~where can i find hostmode?21:59
infobothmm... hostmode is
javispedrosorry, testing infobot's features..22:00
javispedrosuch a feature might haven been useful, to parse "how can I X" sentences if X is in the fact database22:00
javispedrorequiring the ~ character beforehand makes it useless...22:01
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DocScrutinizerI'd not like infobot to kick in on arbitrary conversations all the time22:01
javispedrowell, maybe not for the entire set of facts..22:02
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: on a /query with infobot, you don't need the ~ key22:02
javispedroyes, that's why I was testing here..22:02
DocScrutinizerin fact you MUST omit it22:02
javispedrobtw, meego tsg meeting22:02
lardman|homecu later chaps22:02
yaccjacekowski, hint what to look for?22:02
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DocScrutinizeryacc: /etc/mce/mce.ini22:03
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DocScrutinizerI think you might set powersaving mode and timeouts to meet your needs22:04
DocScrutinizer"automagically" :-D22:05
yaccDocScrutinizer: yeah, but I don't want to do it everytime manually.22:05
jacekowskiyacc: it was something in /sys iirc22:05
jacekowskiyacc: or some dbus stuff22:05
jacekowskior some mce stuff22:05
yaccDocScrutinizer: and being plugged into USB is a give-away that the toy will be only accessed via VNC, ...22:05
yaccDocScrutinizer: WLAN contains less info, because connecting via wlan0 I still can be using the tablet as a tablet outside my homeoffice and have home wlan22:06
babsher_has anyone used smscon?22:06
* luke-jr peers at ieatlint22:07
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DocScrutinizeryacc: there's a "don't lock screen while charging" and there's a "powersave mode" or sth similar which aiui dims but not locks screen22:07
DocScrutinizerdunno if those two are mutually exclusive22:07
yaccDocScrutinizer: The idea is to speed up charging on USB, ...22:08
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DocScrutinizerotoh I'd be surprised if this vnc thing would work with dim but not with lock22:09
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yaccDocScrutinizer: Well, dim is irrelevant to x11vnc, it's only interested in the RGB values of the pixels. Locking seems to blank the video buffer.22:10
DocScrutinizerthere's for sure some way to manually force down brightness. Ask SpeedEvil22:11
yaccDocScrutinizer: x11vnc could not care less how much light backlights the pixels ;)22:11
johnsqyacc: try find /sys -iname "*backlight*" or xset or xbacklight22:11
andaxwhen where at that point, when xonnecting to charger i would like to try connect to home wlan and home bluetooth22:12
andaxautomagically :)22:13
yaccecho 1 >/sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/brightness makes the display rather dim :-P22:13
DocScrutinizeryacc: you might automatize by calling the appropriate cmd (I guess some echo 5 >/sys/*/*/brightness) from dbus-scripting22:13
DocScrutinizerandax: you too22:14
yaccDocScrutinizer: Not really that much of an issue, as I'm starting x11vnc from the host via ssh, so one ssh command from the host does not change anything :)22:14
MohammadAGyacc, the scale is from 0-255, so of course, 1 will indeed be dim22:15
yaccDocScrutinizer: as long as I need MadDeveloper to setup the usb0 device so it does not make the kernel panic, I'm in full manual setup mode anyway.22:15
yaccAnyway, when we are at it, is there a way to reboot the device the same way a kernel panic does (well, yes I could create a module that panics, but that seems drastic) => meaning no PIN question on startup?22:16
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DocScrutinizeryacc: afaik any change in ambient light will reset your brightness to default22:16
DocScrutinizeryacc: there's two flavours of reboot cmds via dbus afaik22:17
DocScrutinizersee wiki22:17
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yaccWhat's a cabc mode?22:18
yaccrelating to the backlight?22:18
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DocScrutinizeryeah, it modulates backlight and contrast to safe power22:18
jacekowskiyacc: there is way to reboot system22:18
jacekowskiecho b > /proc/sysrq-trigger22:19
jacekowskias root22:19
DocScrutinizerdunno what cabc means, but it could mean "content aware backlight change"22:19
yaccDocScrutinizer: Fascinating, either my desktop LCD is to the dominating light source, or your theory does not workout, even after turning off the light in the office the display stays dim. :)22:20
DocScrutinizersee diffs between brightness and brightness-real (or whatever it's called)22:20
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DocScrutinizerlol, switch it on again!22:20
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DocScrutinizerwith simple brightness applet at least, the screen reverts to original setting when exposing device (ALS actually) to a bright source of ambient light22:23
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jacekowskithat can be probably worked around somehow22:23
jacekowskisimple gdb script could do the job22:23
DocScrutinizermaybe by deinstalling simple brightness applet22:24
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DocScrutinizeror by nuking mce - it deserves getting nuked anyway22:24
jacekowskii mean disabling ambient light sensor, you can for example attach to process that's reading sensor22:24
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jacekowskiand then just close file responsible for it22:25
DocScrutinizerthat's mce I guess22:25
jacekowskiopen another one22:25
jacekowskiuse dup222:25
DocScrutinizerevil hax0r22:25
jacekowskito replace that fd with something else22:25
jacekowskiand detach22:25
jacekowskimce will not even know what happened22:25
* DocScrutinizer cackles22:25
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jacekowskii used to do similiar trickery to get program from one terminal to another22:26
ieatlintluke-jr: hi22:26
ieatlintnot avoiding you, just really busy :P22:27
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yaccOk, that leaves me with 3 open tickets for the n900 (external charger for the exchange BL-5J, keyboard fixes for x11vnc [a stopgap would be to be able to enter Fn-Sym via vnc] and how to manage to use the webbrowser via vnc) :)22:29
ieatlinti'm at a weird nokia event where they're handing out n8s22:29
jacekowskiyacc: you can remap your keyboard on host22:30
jacekowskiyacc: or change map on n90022:30
jacekowskiyacc: but in both caes it's global change22:30
jacekowskiieatlint: where?22:30
yaccjacekowski, yeah, but I'm missing xmodmap on the n900.22:30
ieatlintsanta clara, california22:30
yaccjacekowski, well, I wouldn't have any issues mapping the right KeySyms on the n900 to some non-existing keys :)22:30
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jacekowskiyacc: it's in tools repo iirc22:30
yaccjacekowski, so x11vnc can generate it.22:31
ieatlint has a list of places where they're doing it next22:31
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yaccjacekowski, google does not yield a fast answer, tools repo?22:32
yaccjacekowski, cancel that.22:32
yaccjacekowski, extras-devel has it as a seperate package.22:32
jacekowskiwell, it's in tools repo as well22:33
jacekowskibut i suppose extras-devel version is probably newer22:33
yaccTyping AltGr-w gives a D via x11vnc, fascinating, ...22:36
jacekowskin900 has different keyboard22:37
jacekowskiand scancodes are not same as on pc keyboard22:37
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javispedroah, wayland!22:45
* javispedro shudders22:45
RST38hRedHat people finally get their sweaty hands on the compositor? :)22:45
javispedrosomeone on slashdot said something about "those Unix haters have now gotten into leading future distributions' design decisions" ;)22:46
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yaccOk, I managed to mess up the X11 server on the n900 just once :)22:48
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* javispedro shudders again22:48
andaxjacekowski: where do you find scancodes for the n900?22:49
RST38hwayland, shmayland, give it a few years22:49
RST38hI would bet 7:3 that wayland will quietly die22:49
javispedroRST38h: my only hope here is that once distros start defaulting to it people start writing actual features to it until we end up with another useful mosnter like current Xorg.22:50
javispedrorinse and repeat.22:50
RST38hjavispedro: and exactly the same performance22:50
javispedrothere's some stuff in the X11 protocol that could get with a rewrite.22:51
javispedrowell, there's QUITE some stuff.22:51
javispedrobut IMHO the general ideas are still quite useful.22:52
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andaxyacc: i managed to remove the theme (originally by accident) and am surprised by the performance gain, on the contrary some apps have problems now22:53
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yaccandax, how did you do that and what problems?22:53
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andaxyacc: now i have 24 windows open without messing x11 dramatically. problems like some missing buttons on windows, white text on white background (calendar app)22:55
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andaxyacc: and photo app is crashing when i want change a photo name (i am not certain if it really has something to do with that)22:56
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yaccThat would suggest that you can get better performance by using a minimal theme?22:57
andaxyacc: yes :)22:57
andaxi have some screenshots to upload....22:58
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luke-jrieatlint: get me one? XD23:02
ieatlinti pasted a link with cities where you can :P23:03
luke-jryou can't just grab an extra? XD23:03
ieatlintnope, they're protecting their stock23:04
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luke-jrieatlint: do you get to keep it? own or lease?23:06
luke-jrMiami is ~5 hrs from me23:06
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ieatlintbut they're sneaky, you have to complete both days23:06
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ieatlintyeah, they collected the damn phones at the end of yesterday23:07
luke-jrlooks like registration isn't open yet23:07
Noobmonk3ylcuk: Kathy wants a knitting counter ;) - hehe23:08
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lcuki know Noobmonk3y23:08
luke-jrwait, N8 is Symbian?23:08
sivangluke-jr: always has been23:08
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Noobmonk3yooo btw lcuk23:08
luke-jroh, it's not N900 + 1?23:08
Noobmonk3yi figured out the qt mobility problem23:08
* lcuk is in #meego atm23:09
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ieatlintyes, it's symbian23:09
ieatlintn9 will be meego23:09
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ieatlinti'm learning all sorts of nasty horrific things about qt on mobile devices, and some symbian specific stuff23:09
ieatlintlike if you want a kinetic scrolling list... then too fucking bad23:10
andaxyacc: i will upload more as soon as i can, there is problem with the host atm:ändäx/albums/show.dml?id=522598223:10
luke-jrmaybe I'll go just for the Qt interaction and stuff23:11
alteregoieatlint: really? Kinetic scrolling has a class for that23:11
alteregoOr you could implement it yourself.23:11
luke-jrnot sure I care about a Symbian phone23:11
alteregoI played with an N8 yesterday.23:11
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ieatlintalterego: please introduce me :)23:11
alteregoIt was alright, though I kept pressing the background behind dialogs instead of hitting the cancel button to my frustration.23:11
ieatlintyes, it supports it using the non-qt toolkit methinks23:12
ieatlintand maemo qt implements kinetic scrolling23:12
ieatlintbut an app i wrote for maemo that runs otherwise fine on this n8 is missing the kinetic scrolling, and much fun on google has not given me anything good23:12
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alteregoStrange, I guess it wasn't built into 4.623:14
alteregoThere's some code you can use though, as an example.23:15
alteregoI really hope they release 4.7 for the N823:15
alteregoQML is something that really needs to be on all their devices ..23:15
ieatlintyeah, there's a flickable demo app23:16
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ieatlintdon't have the time to parse through 1000 lines of undocumented code right now23:16
sivangieatlint: that's not unknown, and there's work ongoing to make cross development easier, but if you could add your account of yoru porting experience, that'd be for great good :)23:16
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ieatlintsivang: the softkeys stuff is also woefully documented... they don't make any of it at all clear23:17
sivangieatlint: so also thp's experience with regards to opengl and other stuff23:17
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blizzowAnyone here have experience setting the SIP client up with the aptela VOIP service?23:30
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DocScrutinizer51generally generic info on SIP provider's helppages, regarding setup of arbitrary softphones, should give all the info you need23:37
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