| Macer | i wonder if meego works on the n900 yet | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| KaffeeJunky123 | I got my n900 last week and I imedietly flashed it with pr1.3 | 00:00 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | works good so faar | 00:00 |
| PaulFertser | KaffeeJunky123: did you immediately install notmynokia after that? | 00:00 |
| Macer | stupid m key seems to always get in the way :) | 00:00 |
| Macer | i should check up on meego | 00:00 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | PaulFertser: nope, is that an application to erase the previous owners data? | 00:01 |
| Macer | i still want a profile desktop | 00:01 |
| Aranel | PaulFertser: well, I thought Maemo 4 community is already dead after N900 release, but It seems like It's not. surprised :) | 00:02 |
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| PaulFertser | KaffeeJunky123: no, that's an application to somewhat rectify the evil move by the shitheads at nokia who decided privacy of their users is not something they need to care about: http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription | 00:02 |
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| KaffeeJunky123 | ah | 00:04 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | so my mobiles number is registered with nokia... | 00:04 |
| chem|st | KaffeeJunky123: yep | 00:05 |
| chem|st | nice move with pr1.2 | 00:06 |
| nox- | yeah /me got a text message when the 1.3 update was avaliabe | 00:06 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | what do they do with those numbers? | 00:06 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | geoprofiling? | 00:07 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | :> | 00:07 |
| nox- | text ppl about updates? | 00:07 |
| soltys | still no pr1.3 for UK-generic ? | 00:07 |
| secyritas | i have somehow avoided my nokia o.O | 00:07 |
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| secyritas | no idea how but i'm not registered and had n900 since pr1.0 | 00:08 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | ofc you didn't subscribe | 00:09 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | I didn't subscribe either | 00:09 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | you just get a small notification about it | 00:09 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | and this notification is an sms | 00:09 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | so they do have your phone number :X | 00:10 |
| Aranel | well, I didnt get that message about 1.3 update, and I didnt get any notification at all. | 00:10 |
| secyritas | same here | 00:10 |
| Aranel | maybe they failed to send it to me, or sth wrong with my GSM carrier :) | 00:10 |
| chem|st | soltys: just because of some freaking law you island ppl have you are in need specialties... flash global version for g. sake | 00:10 |
| soltys | chem|st: I'm not from UK only my n900 comes frome there ;) | 00:11 |
| soltys | *from | 00:11 |
| nox- | what law? | 00:11 |
| chem|st | soltys: why didn't you reflash then? | 00:11 |
| Aranel | why Nokia always giving updates for UK late? I remember they did the same thing when PR1.2 arrived. | 00:11 |
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| chem|st | nox-: no idea but there is no other reason than law to make different fw versions | 00:12 |
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| andax | Aranel: Maybe the sms was catched by your spam filter | 00:12 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | why don't you flash using your computer? | 00:12 |
| soltys | chem|st: I don't have time for it.. and maybe some day there will be update ;) | 00:12 |
| nidO | Aranel: because nokia uk are shit/crap/nonexistant/take your pick | 00:12 |
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| Aranel | andax: I don't have a spam filter for SMS messaging. | 00:13 |
| chem|st | soltys: without more interaction than: start flashing, start recovering backup and a few taps a total of 10 minutes of your time | 00:14 |
| Aranel | well I wonder what is different on UK version anyway, It's the same N900 with same bugs and features, what makes UK ones different? | 00:14 |
| nidO | in terms of functionality, nothing | 00:14 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | maybe you'll get a free pair of rubber boots with the UK version ;) | 00:15 |
| chem|st | Aranel: different fm frequencies? wifi channels? gsm transmitter power? | 00:15 |
| SpeedEvil | The UK version comes in a protective case made from a heinz baked bean can. | 00:16 |
| chem|st | Aranel: the last one would need another firmware for the gsm/gps module | 00:16 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: with biohazard in green letters sprayed | 00:17 |
| chem|st | anyone familiar with pulseaudio rtp sink? | 00:17 |
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| Aranel | yeah but those frequencies,channels and gsm transmitter power is not changing on every update. | 00:17 |
| andax | Aranel: i only need a sms spam filter to shut up nokias annoying sms stuff | 00:17 |
| Aranel | andax: lol you can unsubscribe from it cant you? | 00:18 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | ofc | 00:18 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | but they'll make random prank calls anyways | 00:19 |
| Aranel | lol | 00:19 |
| chem|st | Aranel: yet all but pr1.1.1 have updated drivers and firmwares of most chips | 00:19 |
| andax | no i cant and my phone provider cant block it because nokia somehow sends them without sender numbersen | 00:19 |
| kerio | "Hello? Mr. KaffeeJunky123? PRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" | 00:19 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | "Hello, so you bought a nokia phone, do you happen do be in need of a pair of rubber boots?" | 00:19 |
| andax | -en | 00:19 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | something like that prolly | 00:19 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | Nokia rubber boots | 00:20 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | we all know them | 00:20 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | I guess you guys got a pair too, right? | 00:20 |
| Aranel | rofl | 00:21 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | everyone should have some | 00:21 |
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| Aranel | andax: I'm pretty sure you can. from My Nokia applet on Settings? It will cost you another SMS, It worths :) | 00:22 |
| andax | rubber boots could shield your feets from heavy electromagnetic fields :) | 00:22 |
| andax | ...i guess | 00:23 |
| PaulFertser | It's ironic how you find privacy breach funny instead of offensing :| | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Rubber boots do not shield from EM. | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | They are transparent. | 00:24 |
| Aranel | you will get used to it. Nokia does it, Apple does it, Google does it. | 00:25 |
| andax | Aranel: i deleted my account but they still send me weekly n00b hints via SMS which are frightening me | 00:25 |
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| Aranel | andax: :| well, your last option is calling them and threatening them with a lawsuit. I bet It will work. | 00:26 |
| * Aranel is lucky Nokia Turkey doesn't even care about him a little bit to send spam crap. | 00:28 | |
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| sh0gunk0_ | Hello everyone | 00:28 |
| sh0gunk0_ | please, is there ovi maps 3 already available for Maemo 5? | 00:28 |
| sh0gunk0_ | I remember that Nokia promised it after releasing N900 | 00:29 |
| andax | hi sh0gunk0_ | 00:29 |
| Aranel | lol | 00:29 |
| nidO | got a link to that piece of fiction? | 00:29 |
| tripzero | maemo... 6? | 00:29 |
| sh0gunk0_ | so only ovi 1 currently? | 00:30 |
| sh0gunk0_ | but ovi maps 1 is piece of crap | 00:30 |
| tripzero | yeah, whatever is available | 00:30 |
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| tripzero | yeah, ovi maps 1 is nothing special | 00:30 |
| nidO | ovi maps for symbian and ovi maps for maemo dont use the same versioning. | 00:30 |
| Aranel | afaik It's a different app from Symbian one. | 00:30 |
| sh0gunk0_ | so ovi for maemo 5 is still being updated? | 00:31 |
| sh0gunk0_ | ovi maps * | 00:31 |
| nidO | yes | 00:31 |
| tripzero | not in a while iirc | 00:31 |
| sh0gunk0_ | hm | 00:31 |
| tripzero | maybe bug fixes, | 00:31 |
| tripzero | i haven't seen a new version | 00:31 |
| sh0gunk0_ | does it have search for places? | 00:31 |
| nidO | ofc | 00:31 |
| Aranel | yeah | 00:31 |
| Aranel | here's a better option: Sygic. | 00:32 |
| tripzero | lol | 00:32 |
| sh0gunk0_ | walk GPS navigation? | 00:32 |
| tripzero | Sygic is better... | 00:32 |
| Aranel | it's only great function is, It doesn't suck. unlike the official one. | 00:32 |
| sh0gunk0_ | hm | 00:32 |
| tripzero | but that's a pretty low bar | 00:32 |
| andax | Aranel++ :-) | 00:32 |
| Aranel | .. can I use this minute of silence to post nonsense trolling? :P Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A67ZkAd1wmI | 00:34 |
| tripzero | wtf? | 00:34 |
| Aranel | maybe It will make you smile, and forget about the maps app. | 00:34 |
| Aranel | It makes me angry anyway. | 00:35 |
| Aranel | lol | 00:35 |
| tripzero | rofl | 00:35 |
| kerio | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFm8TsYG0-I <- much better song | 00:35 |
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| tripzero | hmm | 00:36 |
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| tripzero | right, better "song" | 00:37 |
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| Aranel | lol | 00:37 |
| nox- | `This video contains content from Muyap and Sony Music Entertainment. It is not available in your country.' | 00:37 |
| nox- | stupid geoblocking :( | 00:37 |
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| Aranel | Do I have to make an icon for my package to push it to Extras? | 00:41 |
| andax | Aranel: how do i pass such URL from xchat to zoutube? "!zoutube %s"? unfortunately i cant try via console because the console cant find zoutube | 00:41 |
| Aranel | dunno :| I don't use zoutube | 00:41 |
| andax | :/ | 00:41 |
| nox- | zoutube works for anyone? | 00:42 |
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| Myrtti | jacekowski, DocScrutinizer: you can wait until cows come home, but I aint touching no wikipages ;-) | 00:43 |
| jacekowski | Myrtti: you said yesterday that you will | 00:44 |
| Myrtti | and while you're waiting (do remember to breathe!) I'm going to bed | 00:44 |
| Myrtti | jacekowski: the hell I did | 00:44 |
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| Myrtti | good night | 00:44 |
| jacekowski | Myrtti: do you want me to quote it? | 00:44 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: can you hit him with a stick? | 00:44 |
| Aranel | nox-: It looks like working ok for me. | 00:44 |
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| * nox- tries again | 00:45 | |
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| * nox- can tap on `play' as much as i want and nothing happens | 00:47 | |
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| pupnik | adam geiss is one of my minor heroes "Generating Complex Procedural Terrains Using the GPU" Download Demo & Source Code http://www.geisswerks.com/about_terrain.html | 00:48 |
| nox- | `download' too | 00:48 |
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| Creteil | Hi all | 00:48 |
| Creteil | managed to build pingus, but the optification doesn't seem to work :-( | 00:49 |
| Creteil | any help ? | 00:49 |
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| Aranel | nox-: oops, It's not working. It's unresponsive after pressing Play or Download. | 00:51 |
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| nox- | *nod* | 00:51 |
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| andax | i fired up xplanet, it runs but doesnt appear correctly. It only appears for a few milliseconds while closing a window. | 00:55 |
| Aranel | where should I put the .desktop file to make it show on main menu? | 00:55 |
| Macer | ah well. i'm installing 1.3 now | 00:55 |
| Macer | doesn't look like there was much done to it | 00:56 |
| Macer | but i suppose an update is an update | 00:56 |
| andax | Some ideas how xplanet it can be set to be on real desktop background? | 00:56 |
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| sh0gunk0_ | http://noknok.tv/2010/01/22/free-ovi-maps-3-03-on-the-nokia-n97-and-nokia-n900/ | 01:05 |
| sh0gunk0_ | "If you’re a Nokia N900 user, which runs Maemo 5 rather than Symbian, thankfully support is on its way." | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | that's not official nokia statement | 01:05 |
| sh0gunk0_ | January 22, 2010 | 01:06 |
| sh0gunk0_ | aha | 01:06 |
| sh0gunk0_ | ok | 01:06 |
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| lardman|home | evening all | 01:12 |
| KaffeeJunky123 | is meego worth trying it yet? | 01:14 |
| * lardman|home wonders how to set a PythonQt stdout redirect class | 01:14 | |
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| pupnik | don't ever sleep | 01:16 |
| pupnik | you wake up in a different universe | 01:16 |
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| jacekowski | i went to sleep two days ago | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | and woke up in different time zone | 01:17 |
| lardman|home | I went to sleep last night and ended up at the start of a working week | 01:17 |
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| jacekowski | good night | 01:17 |
| lardman|home | night jacekowski | 01:17 |
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| sh0gunk0_ | have Nokia already implemented sim toolkit support in newer Maemo versions? | 01:19 |
| sh0gunk0_ | I used N900 in eraly version and it didn't have it | 01:19 |
| lardman|home | not that I know of | 01:19 |
| sh0gunk0_ | ohhh | 01:19 |
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| sh0gunk0_ | that a really simple basic GSM function | 01:19 |
| sh0gunk0_ | whats the problem | 01:19 |
| lardman|home | what do you want to be able to do? | 01:20 |
| nox- | pupnik, you listen to popwelt.de shows too? :) | 01:20 |
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| sh0gunk0_ | receive encrypted messages from my bank account | 01:20 |
| sh0gunk0_ | sim toolkit required | 01:20 |
| sh0gunk0_ | it is a function which has been available on very very old Nokia phones | 01:21 |
| lardman|home | hmm, I wonder if telepathy could help you there, as it handles the sms stuff | 01:21 |
| lardman|home | afaiu | 01:21 |
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| pupnik | nox-: what is that | 01:22 |
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| pupnik | n900s at 350 euro are pretty darn tempting | 01:22 |
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| nox- | pupnik, a radio show thats kinda left over from old days, he's a storyteller... | 01:23 |
| pupnik | ty nox- is it playing now? | 01:23 |
| sh0gunk0_ | I bought 5 months old N900 for 180 brittish pounds today. Very good condition, valid warranty receipt, everything included, box accessories etc. | 01:23 |
| nox- | no, only sundays 2300cet | 01:23 |
| pupnik | very nice sh0gunk0_ | 01:23 |
| nox- | radio bremen eins | 01:23 |
| nox- | (well show starts at 2200 but the stories start at 2305) | 01:24 |
| sh0gunk0_ | only usb input is somehow broken, as on lots of N900 happens | 01:24 |
| pupnik | boo | 01:24 |
| sh0gunk0_ | but since I have the receipt with valid IMEI etc. I can have free repair in Nokia service | 01:24 |
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| sh0gunk0_ | was it a good deal? | 01:27 |
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| chem|st | anyone an idea how to connect pulse to a rtp/multicast? | 01:30 |
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| andax | sh0gunk0: yeah, usb is somewhat broken here too, and the backlight sometimes flickers | 01:32 |
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| lardman|home | night chaps | 01:34 |
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| lolcat | Hello | 01:35 |
| lolcat | Can the N900 soon call with ubuntu mobile? | 01:35 |
| andax | sh0gunk0: I think you made a good deal | 01:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sh0gunk0_: STK/SAT is all but simple. In fact it's even more difficult to implement in smartphones than on "very old phones". STK by definition needs full control over the whole MMI, and full control means the SIM "directly" controls display in LCD and input from kbd/ts. Friggin hard to implement in a Application-Proceesor + dedicated modem with own OS system architecture | 01:36 |
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| valdyn | lolcat: since they can use the meego stack it should be trivial, we I have no idea what they are doing | 01:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SIM is connected to modem processor only, and LCD is connected to AppProcessor only | 01:37 |
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| lolcat | valdyn: Meego? | 01:37 |
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| valdyn | lolcat: yes? | 01:37 |
| lolcat | Meego stack* | 01:37 |
| valdyn | lolcat: im saying that ubuntu mobile can use whatever meego uses, if they want to. Meego already has calling support. | 01:38 |
| lolcat | Really? So meego is more open-source than maemo? | 01:39 |
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| valdyn | lolcat: yes | 01:39 |
| lolcat | Is it bether? | 01:40 |
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| valdyn | lolcat: meego is a free software project. It's not in a state that makes it suitable for end users, but you can install it. | 01:41 |
| lolcat | So Ubuntu mobile is bether? | 01:41 |
| valdyn | lolcat: i have no idea | 01:42 |
| valdyn | lolcat: looks to me that ubuntu mobile is for tablets, not phones | 01:42 |
| lolcat | Hmm | 01:43 |
| lolcat | Can I run maemo on my desktop? | 01:43 |
| * lolcat misses his N900 | 01:43 | |
| valdyn | lolcat: yes, but why would you do that? | 01:43 |
| kerio | CAN I HAS MAEMO ON DESKTOP | 01:43 |
| lolcat | So i can see the deskto | 01:44 |
| lolcat | While they are fixing my phone | 01:44 |
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| tripzero | lolcat, they have screenshots available for that | 01:46 |
| lolcat | Could I run maemo on a 600mhz duron? | 01:49 |
| lolcat | If I just get a simcard reader, I can have an awesome phone | 01:50 |
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| tripzero | lolcat, you'd be better off with mer probably | 01:55 |
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| tripzero | since maemo consists of a lot of closed components | 01:55 |
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| pupnik | have n900's gone out of production yet? | 02:06 |
| pupnik | i.e. when will they run out in the regular channels? | 02:06 |
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| pupnik | nokia store still sellin em | 02:09 |
| pupnik | hmm, ordering 999 costs 423,576 euro | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you get any free styli? | 02:10 |
| pupnik | free shipping | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, you busted their stock. It didn't even give me 10 :-P not a single one | 02:15 |
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| * SpeedEvil imagines a 120" screen made from a wall of n900s. | 02:17 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I figured this to be a nice use for the remaining FR on stock :-D | 02:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also, beowulf :-D | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | A beowulf cluster rendering a beowulf movie. | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and displaying it on a 120" screen made of quite some tiles | 02:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ (120 / 3.9) ** 2 | 02:22 |
| infobot | 946.745562130178 | 02:22 |
| nox- | is there already a successor if they no longer ship it? | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they do, then there's a successor | 02:23 |
| nox- | ok :) | 02:24 |
| nox- | btw do you know if kexec is supposed to work in madde qemu? | 02:25 |
| nox- | or how you'd swap a kernel there? | 02:26 |
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| ebzzry_ | Hi! Has anyone experienced issues with Swappolube on PR 1.3? | 02:29 |
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| pupnik | here's an idea for Nokia: ship smartphones with user-customizable keyboards. figure out a way to mfgr phones with exactly the symbols people want :P | 02:41 |
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| Termana | good morning | 02:42 |
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| ColdFyre | pr 1.4 is out! | 02:52 |
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| chem|st | ~slap ColdFyre | 02:54 |
| * infobot slaps ColdFyre, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! | 02:54 | |
| Termana | ~lart ColdFyre | 02:54 |
| * infobot gives ColdFyre an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending ColdFyre to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple | 02:54 | |
| Termana | ~pr1.4 | 02:54 |
| infobot | PR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject | 02:54 |
| ColdFyre | :o | 02:54 |
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| Gorroth | got the maemo 5 sdk installed :) | 03:28 |
| Gorroth | now, i just need to read the docs and see if i can't build and package squid | 03:28 |
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| nox- | ok looks like kernel-power doesnt work in madde qemu :) | 03:50 |
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| Gorroth | i have come to the decision that i may never be able to go to meego | 04:00 |
| Gorroth | it uses RPMs | 04:00 |
| Gorroth | i hate the tools associated with those | 04:00 |
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| johnx | Gorroth, ok. we'll miss you | 04:01 |
| Gorroth | why? maemo is right here | 04:01 |
| johnx | well, when all of us are using meego ... | 04:02 |
| johnx | not right away of course :) | 04:02 |
| Gorroth | can't they just get DEBs and make the world a better place? :) | 04:02 |
| * SpeedEvil stabs Gorroth in the face. | 04:02 | |
| Gorroth | go die in a fire | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | If 0.01% of users care abou thte packaging, you've _utterly_ failed as a distro. | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | meego users should never care about that sort of stuff. | 04:03 |
| johnx | yay! distro flamewars in an already small niche community | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - the package manager threads are completely fucking insane. | 04:03 |
| Gorroth | SpeedEvil: it sounds like you have way more of a problem with this conversation than we do | 04:04 |
| Gorroth | see a therapist | 04:04 |
| pwnguin | SpeedEvil: what percentage of maemo users do you think have considered writing and packaging their own software? | 04:05 |
| johnx | Gorroth, there's no constructive conversation that can be had on this topic, and yes all of us are tired of it. SpeedEvil expresses it differently than me, but I think we feel about the same about it | 04:05 |
| pwnguin | i mean, obviously maemo failed | 04:05 |
| pwnguin | even by your own standards | 04:05 |
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| johnx | pwnguin, the reason maemo failed was that there wasn't enough orange | 04:09 |
| johnx | more orange = more better | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: I'm unsure. | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: I suspect way under .1% | 04:09 |
| Gorroth | i'm one thinking about making a package. i'm trying to get a squid package made | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | There is however a difference between that, and the packaging in principle. | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | In that with the right setup, the package can be largely automatically created - in whatever format | 04:10 |
| pwnguin | so your solution is some form of meta packaging format | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | That this doesn't happen is a problem not inherently with the package format, but with the tools. | 04:10 |
| pwnguin | no | 04:10 |
| pwnguin | its a problem with namespaces | 04:10 |
| Gorroth | package managers should be setup to make users happy first and developers happy second. honestly, DEBs make developers happier than RPMs, imo, and both do the same for the end-user | 04:10 |
| Gorroth | well, except the RPM-based tools seem to take forever and a day to find a damn package | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're a developer - I have slightly more sympathy. | 04:11 |
| Gorroth | which makes users unhappy | 04:11 |
| pwnguin | ive never gotten a straight answer from the packagekit people on how it will actually solve problems | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | but way too many users raise this as if it matters. | 04:11 |
| johnx | Gorroth, there's an equal argument on DEB vs RPM for people writing packages | 04:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | When if it's managed right - the user should never need to care. | 04:12 |
| johnx | but seriously, let's just agree to disagree, because *nothing* anyone says here will convince anyone else | 04:12 |
| pwnguin | are there any rpm based distros besides moblin targgeting arm? | 04:13 |
| johnx | fedora comes to mind | 04:13 |
| pwnguin | huh | 04:13 |
| johnx | not sure if their ARM port is "official" but ... meh | 04:13 |
| pwnguin | obviously this doesnt matter because the real meego phone will be atom based ;0 | 04:14 |
| johnx | only time will tell | 04:14 |
| Gorroth | johnx: i beg to differ on convincing people otherwise. if that was the case, we wouldn't have all the package managers in the first place | 04:14 |
| pwnguin | Gorroth: so you can be convinced otherwise? | 04:15 |
| Gorroth | straw man argument there | 04:15 |
| pwnguin | no | 04:15 |
| Gorroth | it is | 04:15 |
| pwnguin | its his point | 04:15 |
| pwnguin | you want a debate | 04:15 |
| Gorroth | no, it's a straw man | 04:16 |
| Gorroth | if you can find one person that can't be convinced, you will think you've won, but it's a logical fallacy | 04:16 |
| johnx | the fact that we have multiple package managers is pretty much the perfect example that it's hard to change people to your point of view about this sort of thing | 04:16 |
| pwnguin | thats not a straw man | 04:16 |
| Gorroth | it is | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | pkgtool ftw. | 04:16 |
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| pwnguin | the point is, the set of people paying attention to this channel have entrenched positions from which nobody will be lured out of | 04:17 |
| pwnguin | therefore, the argument is fruitless and we should focus on important things | 04:17 |
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| pwnguin | like, whether anyone is using connecting to zimbra with n900 | 04:17 |
| Termana | All I have to say is | 04:17 |
| johnx | ...like how to add more orange to meego, thus making it succeed more betterer than maemo did | 04:17 |
| Termana | Gentoo on N900 FTW! | 04:17 |
| pwnguin | heh | 04:17 |
| Gorroth | ewwwww, gentoooo | 04:17 |
| johnx | isn't there like a channel for starting distro flamewars? | 04:18 |
| Termana | You guys can play with your debs and rpms, I'll build from source and forget about you :p | 04:18 |
| pwnguin | surely there's multiple ebuild formats | 04:18 |
| Gorroth | i heard there is just one: broken | 04:18 |
| Gorroth | hehehe | 04:18 |
| Termana | heh | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I recently came up with a fairly convincing argument for why you can bypass GPL with on-device compilation if you have a trusted computing platform. | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Ship all your source as an encrypted tarball, and build only when it arrives at customer. | 04:19 |
| pwnguin | sorta like ubuntu+nvidia | 04:20 |
| pwnguin | but with palladium | 04:20 |
| Termana | Gorroth, Use Harmattan when it comes. Then you have the best of both worlds (for a little while at least) - MeeGo and DEBs | 04:20 |
| pwnguin | so how awesome is pr 1.3? | 04:20 |
| johnx | SpeedEvil, there's some language in the GPL about providing the source in way that most people expect it or something of that nature | 04:21 |
| johnx | pwnguin, it's better than falling down some stairs | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: which doesn't kick in | 04:21 |
| Termana | pwnguin, IT IS REALLY... not awesome. | 04:21 |
| Termana | Don't leave your N900 on the charger over night | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: by not distributing binary, but an encrypted source archive in the format that you recieved it - most of the nasty bits of the GPL go away. | 04:21 |
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| Termana | (with pr1.3) | 04:22 |
| pwnguin | hmm | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | As the 'distributing binary' bits never kick in. | 04:22 |
| pwnguin | the feature set isn't very compelling | 04:22 |
| pwnguin | new libraries | 04:22 |
| Gorroth | Termana: yeah, i'm planning on using it | 04:22 |
| pwnguin | full ovi bs support | 04:22 |
| Gorroth | Termana: i'm gonna keep hope alive! | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Ovi support! OMG | 04:22 |
| nox- | kfgles2 - anyone know whats up with that? kernel-power seems to be missing it? | 04:22 |
| Termana | Who cares about Ovi? :p | 04:22 |
| Gorroth | pwnguin: yeah, i didn't notice any difference with pr1.3. | 04:23 |
| pwnguin | Termana: nokia | 04:23 |
| pwnguin | especially the ovi developers | 04:23 |
| Gorroth | i don't. it's too hard to use | 04:23 |
| Gorroth | they need something slick and native like the iOS app store | 04:23 |
| Termana | pwnguin, you should probably upgrade to 1.3 anyway, especially if you're considering dual booting MeeGo | 04:23 |
| Termana | pwnguin, yeah them and.... that's all :p | 04:24 |
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| pwnguin | i tried the netbook meego and was underwhelmed | 04:24 |
| pwnguin | the only thing i'd possibly care about is banshee ratings sync | 04:24 |
| pwnguin | and from what i can tell, that's not gonna happen | 04:24 |
| Gorroth | oh a netbook, i'd probably just go with ubuntu and unity | 04:25 |
| Gorroth | that's me though | 04:25 |
| Termana | pwnguin, honestly, I don't give to shits about netbook meego. I only care about ARM/Handset | 04:25 |
| Termana | two* | 04:25 |
| pwnguin | right, but that barely booted last i checked | 04:25 |
| Termana | pwnguin, you checked a long time ago then | 04:26 |
| pwnguin | june? | 04:26 |
| Termana | pwnguin, but it's still not everyday ready just yet | 04:26 |
| Termana | pwnguin, it fully boots, it can make phone calls and SMSes, wifi works etc. | 04:26 |
| pwnguin | what about charging? | 04:26 |
| Termana | AFAIK, yes | 04:26 |
| Termana | Unless it's broke in/just before the 1.1 build | 04:27 |
| Termana | it* | 04:27 |
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| Gorroth | does the latest meego handset edition have skype? | 04:28 |
| Termana | Gorroth, no | 04:28 |
| Gorroth | dang | 04:28 |
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| pwnguin | how do you even dual boot with such a tiny flash chip? | 04:28 |
| Termana | pwnguin, SD card | 04:29 |
| pwnguin | i thought that was the death by a thousand latencies | 04:29 |
| Gorroth | lol | 04:29 |
| johnx | not with a class 6 and aggressive cache settings | 04:29 |
| Termana | (or eMMC but that's not the officially supported way, and I wouldn't recommend it anyway, plus you would screw up your Maemo install) | 04:29 |
| pwnguin | hmm | 04:29 |
| Gorroth | nyhacker hackday is coming up | 04:29 |
| pwnguin | havent bought an SD card in a while | 04:29 |
| Gorroth | 3 weeks away | 04:29 |
| Gorroth | me either | 04:30 |
| Gorroth | mine is in my nexus one now | 04:30 |
| Termana | well, honestly it doesn't work that bad on a Class 2 card, just saying | 04:30 |
| pwnguin | whats this about charging though? joke? | 04:30 |
| Termana | pwnguin, no? | 04:31 |
| pwnguin | Termana> Don't leave your N900 on the charger over night | 04:31 |
| Termana | pwnguin, oh right for PR1.3 | 04:31 |
| pwnguin | true or false? | 04:31 |
| Termana | true | 04:31 |
| pwnguin | so i can dual boot an incomplete os, if i buy another fast SD Card | 04:32 |
| pwnguin | and melt the thing when it runs out of battery | 04:32 |
| Termana | If you read through the #maemo logs you'll see some testing has been done. And PR1.3 is not power saving as well as 1.2 when connected to the wallwart charger. So you will potentially wear your N900's CPU out faster (though if you're an overclocker you obviously don't give a shit about this anyway) and potentially wear the battery lifespan down faster | 04:33 |
| pwnguin | hah | 04:34 |
| Termana | pwnguin, you have just completely confused two things | 04:34 |
| Termana | pwnguin, the don't leave it on the charger over night has nothing to do with MeeGo | 04:34 |
| pwnguin | they're both PR1.3 related | 04:34 |
| Termana | No they are not | 04:35 |
| ebzzry_ | Guys, who among you here use the N900 regularly, not overclocked? | 04:35 |
| pwnguin | me | 04:35 |
| Gorroth | who the hell overclocks and n900? | 04:35 |
| Gorroth | with it's shit battery | 04:35 |
| Termana | ebzzry_, before mine got sent to a water grave, I did. And my next N900 won't be overclocked either | 04:35 |
| pwnguin | q3a players? | 04:35 |
| Gorroth | who plays q3a seriously on their phone? | 04:35 |
| ebzzry_ | With autoaim? | 04:36 |
| ebzzry_ | pwnguin: With PR 1.3? | 04:36 |
| Gorroth | maybe autoaim | 04:36 |
| Gorroth | i just couldn't imagine the experience being good | 04:36 |
| pwnguin | ebzzry_: i dont overclock, and am considering the upgrade to pr1.3 | 04:36 |
| Gorroth | ebzzry_: i use the n900, but not overclocked, and only on an occasional basis | 04:37 |
| Gorroth | unless i get squid working | 04:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | why squid? | 04:37 |
| Gorroth | personal reasons | 04:37 |
| pwnguin | obviously so it functions as a snoopable wifi AP | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. With built in side-jacking. | 04:38 |
| Gorroth | if what pwnguin says is as true as it sounds, i don't know anything about that | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | WUT? Schwarzenegger semi-legalized pot? | 04:38 |
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| Termana | DocScrutinizer, link? | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | TV :-) | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | not yet | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a vote tomorrow | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Apparantly | 04:39 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, ;) ah. You could stream it to me? :p | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | and he's not in favour | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, probably that's why he's going to lose | 04:39 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, oh right. Isn't that like Prop 8 or something? | 04:39 |
| pwnguin | we can rename sacremento new amsterdam | 04:39 |
| Gorroth | i hope prop 19 passes | 04:39 |
| Termana | err | 04:39 |
| Gorroth | if it does, i'm going to visit CA | 04:39 |
| Termana | 19 rather | 04:40 |
| Gorroth | suddenly, CA will realize that its tax problems disappear when it gets lots of visitors | 04:40 |
| Termana | 8 is about gay marriages (or rather, against them) | 04:40 |
| pwnguin | narcotourism! | 04:41 |
| Gorroth | woooooooo | 04:41 |
| ieatlint | oh dear god... i can't even get away from the prop19 people here | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Damn, who'd think the country of unlimited madness would same time sentence people to do a life in prison for 3 times found with a joint, and legalize canabis just some 100 miles further | 04:42 |
| nox- | .nl also isnt that far from .de... | 04:43 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: pot is still illegal in california | 04:43 |
| ieatlint | it is no longer a criminal offense, however -- meaning you don't get a trial, you just get a fine | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it isn't. You need a 10 min visit at a doctor to get a "recommendation" | 04:43 |
| ieatlint | pff.... 10min? nah, less time than that | 04:44 |
| Gorroth | if pot is legalized, will the people in prisons for smoking a fatty still stay in prison because it was illegal when they did it? | 04:44 |
| ieatlint | the time it takes to get a medical marijuana prescription depends on how complicated it is to spell your name | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | then buy officially | 04:44 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: fines are based on criminal law. you are entitled to a trial if you want one | 04:44 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: not here you aren't | 04:45 |
| ieatlint | they're based on civil law | 04:45 |
| ieatlint | you don't go to a criminal court | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | tomorrow they are just about to go without that "recommendation" | 04:45 |
| Gorroth | you are still entitled to a trial | 04:45 |
| Gorroth | you can just not pay | 04:45 |
| ieatlint | it's on par with a speeding ticket | 04:45 |
| Gorroth | speeding tickets are criminal offenses | 04:45 |
| ieatlint | yeah, try not paying a speeding ticket :) | 04:45 |
| ieatlint | nope | 04:45 |
| Gorroth | yes | 04:45 |
| Gorroth | you should read up on your laws | 04:45 |
| ieatlint | it's called an infraction in CA law | 04:45 |
| Gorroth | which is a criminal infraction | 04:46 |
| pwnguin | im pretty sure the definition of criminal vs civil is who shows up to court | 04:46 |
| ieatlint | it's treated as a civil offence | 04:46 |
| pwnguin | ie, your neighbor doesnt sue you for speeding | 04:46 |
| nox- | FATAL: Module kfgles2 not found. | 04:46 |
| ieatlint | and it's the same as 1oz of pot possession now | 04:46 |
| nox- | hm | 04:46 |
| Gorroth | okay, well, you try getting a few traffic tickets and see what happens to your driver's license for all those "civil offenses" that are actually criminal offenses | 04:47 |
| pwnguin | but im no lawyer, with no law degree, and no bar exam under my belt | 04:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders what all those canabis consumers that do their time in jail will think when looking outside and see all those other people walk by with joints in their hands | 04:47 | |
| ieatlint | the revocation of a driver licence has nothing to do with paying tickets | 04:47 |
| ieatlint | it's based on a point system | 04:47 |
| pwnguin | DocScrutinizer: presumably a governor would issue a blanket pardon | 04:48 |
| Gorroth | a point system written in criminal law | 04:48 |
| Gorroth | you really should learn your basic laws | 04:48 |
| ieatlint | anyway, feel free to try and ask for a trial by jury... you know, because you're guaranteed that for all criminal charges against you | 04:48 |
| Gorroth | you have the right to a trial by jury or judge | 04:48 |
| Gorroth | and you are protected by the 5th amendment | 04:48 |
| Gorroth | it is definitely a criminal offense | 04:49 |
| Gorroth | and the officer has the right to arrest you for it | 04:49 |
| ieatlint | the 5th amendment doesn't apply to california courts man :P | 04:49 |
| ieatlint | only federal | 04:49 |
| ieatlint | parts of it are replicated in state law | 04:49 |
| ieatlint | such as right not to incriminate yourself | 04:49 |
| Gorroth | the 5th amendment applies to ANY criminal proceeding | 04:50 |
| ieatlint | ... in federal court | 04:50 |
| Gorroth | in any court | 04:50 |
| Gorroth | you better hope you never get arrested. the cops are going to talk you out of your rights | 04:50 |
| ieatlint | heh, you're woefully misinformed | 04:51 |
| pwnguin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution | 04:51 |
| ieatlint | sorry, i'm basing my views on what a friend who passed the bar in california has told me, what i know from friends who have gotten infractions, and what the associated press reports | 04:51 |
| Gorroth | no, you're honestly not very smart with your rights | 04:51 |
| Termana | I can only comment on Australia, but here it is a criminal offence. Civil offences are torts against another civilian. Criminal offences are against Her Majesty, The Queen of England II (Regina)/Governor-General/State. | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't that the 1. § in american right: "you don't have to be informed" ? | 04:52 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: case in point.. if i go to small claims court and sue you for $50, are you entitled to a jury? | 04:52 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: that is a civil matter | 04:52 |
| Gorroth | you are damn confused | 04:53 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: is that a yes or no? | 04:53 |
| Gorroth | it is irrelevant | 04:53 |
| Gorroth | it is a civil matter | 04:53 |
| ieatlint | no, it's a convenient example to show that california law is sovereign from federal law | 04:54 |
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| pwnguin | well, the 14th amendment complicates that | 04:54 |
| Gorroth | no, sorry, you are trying to quote the 10th amendment, but that is wrong | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | criminal is individual sued by authority, civil is individual vs individual (though sometimes virtual entity) | 04:54 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: actually i'm referencing the 7th | 04:55 |
| Gorroth | the US Constitution stands above state law | 04:55 |
| Gorroth | and your 5th amendment applies to any criminal proceeding | 04:55 |
| ieatlint | it stands above state law, yes, but it is not enforceable in a state court | 04:55 |
| Gorroth | it absolutely is | 04:55 |
| ieatlint | appeals to it are done in federal court | 04:55 |
| nox- | anyway here's how to watch the madde qemu boot: (cd /home/maemo/.madde/0.6.72/runtimes/rx51-fremantle-pr12 && LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/maemo/.madde/0.6.72/madlib DISPLAY=:0.0 ~/.madde/0.6.72/madlib/qemu-system-arm-0.12.50-madde3 -M n900 -mtdblock RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.nand -sd RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.emmc -clock unix -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp:127.0.0.1:6666-:22,hostfwd=tcp:127.0.0.1:13219-:13219,hostfwd=tcp:127.0.0.1:14168-:14168 -serial | 04:55 |
| nox- | stdio) | 04:55 |
| pwnguin | ieatlint: how's the market for lawyers right now? | 04:56 |
| Gorroth | if you think a state court can imprison you because you didn't answer a few questions in a criminal court, you are just wrong | 04:56 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: the state independently guarantees the right to not incriminate yourself | 04:56 |
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| pwnguin | "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. " | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | in a country where every deputy *IS* the law, the whole dispute is rather moot | 04:56 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: the state may have additionaly reinforced that, but it's for show. the US Constitution is what really grants you your protection in this matter | 04:57 |
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| ieatlint | Gorroth: well, i'm oddly going to go with what i've seen, and what a friend who has passed the bar has explicitly told me | 04:58 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, sir I have something to tell you | 04:58 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, I... AM... THE LAW | 04:59 |
| Termana | :p | 04:59 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: okay. well, if it comes to you and me in a criminal court case, and my not answering questions is what saves me, i'll gladly plead the 5th. you, however, can spout off whatever you like | 04:59 |
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| ieatlint | Gorroth: there's no reason to put words in my mouth to service disinformation | 05:00 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc | 05:00 |
| ieatlint | i explicitly said that the right to not incriminate yourself in a court of law is preserved in CA law | 05:00 |
| Gorroth | yes, it may be additionally held, but even if it wasn't, it doesn't mean jack | 05:00 |
| ieatlint | 5th amendment doesn't apply to being questioned by the police... | 05:00 |
| ieatlint | it's not a court of law | 05:00 |
| Gorroth | they could have a law that says the opposite, but it doesn't mean jack | 05:00 |
| Gorroth | 5th amendment most certainly does apply to police officer interrogations | 05:01 |
| Gorroth | you are stupid | 05:01 |
| Gorroth | and that is all | 05:01 |
| pwnguin | anyways, regarding offenses made legal | 05:01 |
| ieatlint | heh | 05:01 |
| pwnguin | there was a guy in jail in georgia | 05:01 |
| pwnguin | for statuatory rape | 05:02 |
| pwnguin | during his sentence the law was changed and he'd be a free man, but there was a shitstorm about the governor not pardoning this person | 05:02 |
| Termana | ieatlint, Gorroth: Gorroth is correct. Their is a reason it is the United States. Each state has enter into an agreement of the United States Constitution. The state court cannot prosecute you for rights granted to you by the Constitution and by extension the Federal laws allowed to be provisioned under the Constitution. | 05:02 |
| ieatlint | law is far more complicated than that :P | 05:03 |
| Termana | The Hierarchy is simple, Constitution, Federal law, State Law, County Law. | 05:03 |
| pwnguin | but seriously | 05:03 |
| pwnguin | who would opt for a trial | 05:03 |
| Gorroth | Termana: well, the 10th amendment allows states to override federal law if the constitution didn't grant the power to the feds | 05:04 |
| pwnguin | heh | 05:04 |
| pwnguin | the 9th and 10th are mostly useless | 05:04 |
| Termana | Gorroth, you're possibly (probably) correct on that. | 05:04 |
| pwnguin | just ask scalia | 05:05 |
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| * DocScrutinizer puts a mark on his trolling calendar | 05:06 | |
| Termana | Also, just because the Federal court has Appellate jurisdiction, doesn't change the law you are to be prosecuted under | 05:06 |
| Termana | As ieatlint has suggested (that this was the case) | 05:06 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: back to the original issue, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20018327-503544.html | 05:06 |
| Termana | It doesn't matter what court you are in, you are being prosecuted under the same law | 05:06 |
| ieatlint | first paragraph sums it up | 05:06 |
| ieatlint | Termana: not at all true | 05:07 |
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| ieatlint | a california court cannot enforce federal laws, nor can a federal court enforce a state law | 05:07 |
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| ieatlint | this is why we have federal and state courthouses all over | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | california court has to*obey* fed law | 05:07 |
| pwnguin | in as much as the 14th amendment forces their hand | 05:08 |
| ieatlint | no, although the constitution does require that each state set up a system of justice based on the federal system | 05:08 |
| Termana | ieatlint, the different courts may have different original jurisdiction that does not mean that a lower court can prosecute in their own way | 05:08 |
| pwnguin | Termana: orly? | 05:09 |
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| Termana | Yes, really. | 05:09 |
| ieatlint | federal and state courts are separate hierarchies | 05:09 |
| ieatlint | the california state supreme court cannot have its ruling appealed to the us supreme court, for instance | 05:09 |
| ieatlint | nor vise-versa | 05:10 |
| pwnguin | im trying to remember which northeastern state has untrained country judges | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | except if CA supreme ruling is based on laws that are in conflict with fed | 05:10 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: special case, but yes | 05:11 |
| Termana | ieatlint, special case? It's exactly what we're discussing | 05:11 |
| luke-jr | ieatlint: hey | 05:11 |
| ieatlint | how so? | 05:11 |
| ieatlint | hey | 05:11 |
| Termana | ieatlint, a state trying to uphold a law which is in conflict with federal law/courts or the constitution | 05:12 |
| ieatlint | yes, which is why things like prop19 will immediately face legal challenges | 05:12 |
| Termana | So now you're agreeing with my original statement. You are prosecuted under the same laws no matter what court you are in. | 05:13 |
| pwnguin | how about this | 05:14 |
| pwnguin | nobody smoke until the smoke clears on the subject ;) | 05:14 |
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| ieatlint | Termana: no, not at all | 05:14 |
| Termana | Because a state court cannot prosecute you if the federal courts/law or constitution is in direct conflict on the matter | 05:14 |
| Termana | A federal court cannot prosecute you if it is in violation of the constitution. | 05:15 |
| luke-jr | Termana: prove it. | 05:15 |
| ieatlint | if prop19 passes, a local state court cannot say "fuck 19, federal law says it's illegal, so we're charging you" | 05:15 |
| Termana | ieatlint, good luck with the appeal on that. | 05:15 |
| Termana | They'll be charged | 05:15 |
| ieatlint | not by state courts | 05:15 |
| luke-jr | I have personally witnessed state courts infringe on one's US Constitution rights | 05:16 |
| ieatlint | hell, as the law stands right now, a state criminal court cannot charge me for 1oz or less of pot | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | if prop19 was against fed legislation, then no way it ever made it such far | 05:16 |
| Termana | luke-jr, ok sorry I should be more clear. A state court can, but that doesn't mean it will last | 05:16 |
| luke-jr | Termana: the state's supreme court ruled that the Constitution doesn't apply to all cases. | 05:16 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: it is, and the US attorney general has said he will go after people who violate federal drug laws | 05:16 |
| nox- | isnt it often more about who has more money to spend on lawyers etc? | 05:17 |
| ieatlint | nox-: always, yes | 05:17 |
| ieatlint | "the colour of american justice is green" | 05:17 |
| luke-jr | Termana: specifically, that cases involving children's "well-being" void the Constitutional rights | 05:17 |
| luke-jr | for the sake of the children | 05:18 |
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| Gorroth | ieatlint: prop 19 is a clear-cut 10th amendment issue. the feds will lose | 05:19 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: good luck there | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, when I ponder about it... SURE, USA is THE country to teach other nations about freedom and democracy and right | 05:19 |
| luke-jr | what about prop 0x19? | 05:19 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: also, any state can pass a law stating you cannot have tatoos. upon entering the state, you could be arrested. you'd win. | 05:19 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: lol | 05:19 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: democracy is retarded | 05:19 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: you are just completely ignorant about the law. you should learn what you're talking about before entering a debate on it | 05:20 |
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| Gorroth | ieatlint: i don't care what your "lawyer bar friend" said. he probably was talking about something else or was a first-year that didn't know anything | 05:20 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: you've been misled :P | 05:20 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: i've read up on it and seen more case outcomes than you have, obviously | 05:20 |
| ieatlint | states do make restrictions like that all the time | 05:20 |
| ieatlint | try and bring a bunch of dildos to texas for instance | 05:20 |
| Gorroth | sure they do. and then they get slammed if they step on the US Constitution | 05:21 |
| ieatlint | or hell -- try and bring some fruit into california in your car | 05:21 |
| Gorroth | have you ever actually heard about supreme court rulrings? | 05:21 |
| luke-jr | Gorroth: you assume people can tolerate a wait for an appeal | 05:21 |
| Gorroth | anyway, it's obvious you aren't open to learning the truth. you wish to be dogmatic in your ignorance, and i can take no part in it | 05:21 |
| Gorroth | luke-jr: that is irrelevant | 05:21 |
| luke-jr | if you cannot appeal, it doesn't matter if they're doing stuff illegal | 05:21 |
| ieatlint | you're going to be rudely awakened one day | 05:22 |
| Gorroth | luke-jr: that is beside the point | 05:22 |
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| Gorroth | ieatlint: i'm sorry, but i'm not. you will be when you let your rights get stomped. it's people like you that are letting our freedoms erode | 05:23 |
| luke-jr | my point is that in practice, the State is above the law. | 05:23 |
| Gorroth | and you disgust me | 05:23 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: you're grossly mistaken.. i'm extremely well informed of my rights, and impressively i'm still not an asshole to police officers | 05:23 |
| Gorroth | luke-jr: that isn't the case. there are several counter-examples, but i don't wish to find them now | 05:23 |
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| Gorroth | luke-jr: for anyone willing, the option is there to fight, and people do | 05:24 |
| ieatlint | i live in this crazy area called the middle, where i'm not a fanatic, but i support the ACLU | 05:24 |
| ieatlint | and i've seen the legal system "work" | 05:24 |
| luke-jr | Gorroth: sometimes the cost of fighting is greater than the cost of surrender | 05:24 |
| luke-jr | even if you win | 05:24 |
| Gorroth | ieatlint: no, based on what you said, you will clearly let your rights be trampled. | 05:24 |
| Gorroth | have fun with it, ieatlint | 05:24 |
| ieatlint | fanaticism in all its forms is disturbing to me | 05:25 |
| Gorroth | what does fanaticism have to do with this discussion of how the US legal system is setup | 05:25 |
| ieatlint | your blinded by your biases, and spew hatred onto those who differ. you end up marginalising your beliefs in the eyes of most people | 05:25 |
| luke-jr | do you decline to show ID when flying on airplanes? | 05:25 |
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| Gorroth | luke-jr: no, because you have no right to fly | 05:26 |
| ieatlint | you lost any respect when you chose to attack me, and make a wild accusation | 05:26 |
| luke-jr | Gorroth: so? | 05:26 |
| luke-jr | it's still optional. | 05:26 |
| Gorroth | it's not optional if you want on the plane, because you don't have the right to fly | 05:26 |
| luke-jr | it is optional. just tell them you opt not to show your ID. | 05:26 |
| luke-jr | you still get to fly. | 05:27 |
| luke-jr | you also get the full security pat-down | 05:27 |
| Gorroth | and they will kindly tell you you can't fly, because you have no right to fly | 05:27 |
| ieatlint | oh, and apologies to everyone else in here... i should've never said a word about anything so off topic, let alone carry it on uselessly for so long :P | 05:27 |
| * luke-jr has actually flown without showing ID ☺ | 05:27 | |
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| Gorroth | ah, yes, actually, that makess sense, luke-jr ; i do remember seeing someone do that in front of me | 05:27 |
| Gorroth | they just ask them more questions | 05:28 |
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| Gorroth | ieatlint: yeah, it would've been best if you just learned that you aren't well-informed about how the legal system works and couldn't even tell the difference between a civil and criminal case | 05:28 |
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| ieatlint | Gorroth: please refrain from further insults and let the issue rest | 05:29 |
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| Gorroth | ieatlint: oh, you are telling me to stop now? do you just like to get the last word in or something now? it's just a fact you don't know case law well at all and clearly don't understand your rights. that's all i am saying | 05:30 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: i'm pleading for sanity at this point, nothing more | 05:30 |
| Gorroth | okay, i will stop talking about it, safe in the sanity of knowing i'm right and you're wrong :) | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | so seems I started it in some strange way, now I plead to have the last word on it. OT ALARM! | 05:31 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: :P | 05:32 |
| ieatlint | i apologised :) | 05:32 |
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| Gorroth | just one last thing, ieatlint , read california penal code 15 and 16 | 05:36 |
| Gorroth | okay, that's all | 05:36 |
| ieatlint | Gorroth: dude, just drop it | 05:36 |
| ieatlint | move on | 05:36 |
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| Gorroth | okay, i will. i take it you won't read it then. :-/ | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gorroth: please take it elsewhere | 05:37 |
| Gorroth | already been done taken :) that was the last thing he needed to know :) | 05:38 |
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| Termana | wow, looks like I had to walk away before it got really messy. | 05:43 |
| Termana | Anyway, something OT | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: stfu and eat your rice :-P | 05:43 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, did you say yesterday that the PR1.3 awake-on-charger issue was related to the rouge kernel activity | 05:44 |
| Termana | -the | 05:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: please rephrase | 05:44 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, with regard to the PR1.3 issue how the N900 will stay awake and at higher frequencies when using a wallwart charger than on PR1.2, what exactly is causing it? | 05:45 |
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| Termana | Kernel? BME? Something else? etc. | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | something in kernel, as it also shows with 1.3 kernel on a 1.1.1 rootfs | 05:45 |
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| Termana | DocScrutinizer, so switching back to a PR1.2 kernel should fix the issue? (assuming the slightly older kernel isn't for some reason incompatible with the new rootfs, radio etc.) | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 05:47 |
| nox- | oh so just install kernel-power despite it still being for 1.2? | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 05:48 |
| nox- | mmh | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it fits and works | 05:48 |
| nox- | heh it does seem broken in madde qemu... | 05:48 |
| nox- | with 1.2 rootfs | 05:48 |
| nox- | FATAL: Module kfgles2 not found. | 05:48 |
| nox- | anyone willing to test? ;) | 05:49 |
| nox- | (could be qemu issue afterall...) | 05:50 |
| Gorroth | hmm, i should install kernel-power on pr1.3? i have kernel-maemo | 05:50 |
| nox- | if you're willing to take rescue actions should it not boot, yeah | 05:51 |
| Gorroth | oh, based on the kernel-power info, at least, it says i should use that to transition to the new kernel-power name. doesn't really say anything else | 05:51 |
| Gorroth | i mean i don't think i'm having any problems, but i don't know | 05:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, old kernel with new rootfs is highly prone to break. New kernel on old rootfs is usually much less problematic | 05:53 |
| nox- | mh | 05:53 |
| nox- | anyone willing to update kernel-power for 1.3? | 05:54 |
| Gorroth | which one is the new kernel? kernel-power is what i gather | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | as new kernels should keep compatibility to older versions, and kernel doesn't care much about rootfs | 05:54 |
| nox- | 1.3 has a new kernel | 05:54 |
| nox- | kernel-power still seems to be from 1.2 | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | with a bug | 05:54 |
| nox- | yeah 1.3 has a bug | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | (1.3) | 05:54 |
| Gorroth | wait, you guys just confused me :) is kernel-power the one you recommend, or kernel-maemo? on 1.3 here | 05:55 |
| nox- | kernel-power if you're willing to experiment (and report back :) | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I recommend you stay with stock 1.3 until further investigations | 05:56 |
| nox- | yeah 1.3 is safer | 05:56 |
| Gorroth | DocScrutinizer: meaning kernel-maemo then i guess, since that's what came installed when i upgraded with the OTA update | 05:56 |
| nox- | yep | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 05:56 |
| Gorroth | okay, exceellent | 05:56 |
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| Gorroth | i'm not willing to experiment on that aspect; so, i'll just take 'er nice an' easy with the stock kernel :) | 05:57 |
| Gorroth | maybe later | 05:57 |
| nox- | just dont leave on charger for unecessarly long time then | 05:57 |
| Gorroth | ok | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, the bug isn't affecting you much anyway | 05:57 |
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| Gorroth | okay. i'll just charge it while i'm able to watch it, like at work | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: on pre 1.3 kernels we had same behaviour only for USB host attached to N900 | 05:58 |
| nox- | ah when testing hostmode? | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it was intentional (though I dunno why) | 05:59 |
| Gorroth | from what i read earlier in this chat, leaving the power connected will kill the battery? | 05:59 |
| danu | guys , do you guys have any success in running GMapCatcher on N900 ? | 05:59 |
| nox- | ah no other way around (right?) | 05:59 |
| Termana | Gorroth, that's not exactly what I said | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: attach any pre-1.3 device to a host PC and watch CPU freq | 05:59 |
| Gorroth | Termana: i probably misunderstood then | 06:00 |
| nox- | yeah ok | 06:00 |
| Termana | I said it will degrade the battery at a higher rate | 06:00 |
| Gorroth | oh, okay | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: bug in pr1.3 is just it does same thing for charger now | 06:00 |
| Gorroth | well, thanks for the warning; i wasn't aware of that at all | 06:00 |
| nox- | ok | 06:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | keeping backlight always-on also had same cell-wearing effect since 1.0, as charging never stops | 06:01 |
| budfive | I'm using kernel-power with 1.3 | 06:02 |
| budfive | works fine | 06:02 |
| danu | do you guys have any success in running GMapCatcher on N900 ? | 06:02 |
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| nox- | budfive, ah cool | 06:02 |
| nox- | budfive, from extras or from extras-devel? | 06:02 |
| budfive | nox-: errr... Probably extras-devel | 06:02 |
| budfive | nox-: they're all in my sources.list, so if there's a choice it's probably using the extras-devel one | 06:03 |
| nox- | mind doing a quick apt-cache policy? :) | 06:03 |
| budfive | sure. hold on | 06:03 |
| Gorroth | budfive: dpkg -l | grep kernel-power ... what version does it list? | 06:03 |
| budfive | yeah, i know. hold on. looking for phone | 06:03 |
| danu | do you guys have any success in running GMapCatcher on N900 ? | 06:04 |
| Gorroth | hehe, you can't just ssh to it by now? :-P | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | danu: please!!! | 06:04 |
| danu | sorry Doc | 06:04 |
| danu | nobody was replying to me | 06:04 |
| budfive | Gorroth: can't have network on all the time. too much drain | 06:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | so probably nobody had an answer | 06:04 |
| Gorroth | yeah | 06:04 |
| budfive | package version 2.6.28-maemo40 | 06:04 |
| budfive | uname -r shows 2.6.28.10power40 | 06:05 |
| danu | Doc it sounds like it is | 06:05 |
| Gorroth | if i get squid setup, i'm buying that huge battery adapter they have for the n900. the one that makes it look like you're holding a late 90s PDA | 06:05 |
| Gorroth | so i can keep it on a long time | 06:05 |
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| nox- | budfive, thx | 06:05 |
| Gorroth | thanks budfive | 06:05 |
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| Gorroth | looks like the extras-devel then, because i just have extras-testing enabled, and it doesn't go up that high | 06:06 |
| budfive | Can anybody enlighten me about any changes to the bootloader in 1.3? Supposedly it can dualboot meego. What changed exactly to make that happen? | 06:06 |
| nox- | yep 2.6.28-maemo40 def. looks like extras-devel | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | budfive: fud, nonsense, missconception | 06:07 |
| Gorroth | budfive: i'm not sure exactly what you need to do, but i know it can boot a second OS from the SD card | 06:07 |
| Gorroth | i don't know how to set that up though | 06:07 |
| budfive | Don't particularly want to mess with meego, but I'll want to mess with the kernel in the near future. | 06:08 |
| budfive | flasher should still work as before? | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | budfive: they (allegedly) fixed kexec in pr1.3 kernel. But that's really unrelated to real dualboot | 06:08 |
| danu | guys Can you suggest me a good alternative to GMapCatcher except Ovi maps on N900 where i can browse maps offline ? | 06:08 |
| budfive | k. thanks | 06:08 |
| Gorroth | budfive: yeah, i'm not in the meego camp either. i might stay in the maemo camp for a while once i get this thing setup how i like | 06:08 |
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| budfive | danu: tangogps, mappero, maep, ... | 06:10 |
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| danu | TY budfive , i am checking them now | 06:11 |
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| opdf2 | I had qik when it was free | 06:31 |
| opdf2 | updated to 1.3, now its not free in ovi | 06:32 |
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| nox- | yeah thx again from me too budfive, /me mack on kernel-power now too | 06:32 |
| opdf2 | I have a backup, how can install free qik again | 06:32 |
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| nox- | dpki -i? | 06:43 |
| nox- | (if you are lucky) | 06:43 |
| nox- | dpkg -i even | 06:44 |
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| nox- | hm the official tangogps deb needs libcurl3-gnutls, in which repo is that? | 06:49 |
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| Gorroth | running configure script for squid and my options to it in the maemo 5 sdk scratchbox... sweet! it finished | 06:59 |
| Gorroth | let's see if this code actually builds or not | 06:59 |
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| Gorroth | if i can get a package built, i'll submit it to the maemo repo people | 07:02 |
| Gorroth | hopefully someone other than me will enjoy it too | 07:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, select service in dialer doesn't work anymore, to do SIP calls. Also I can't find that "use SIP for phone calls" config option. Where was that? | 07:03 |
| budfive | DocScrutinizer51: do you use sip AND a cell number, or purely sip? | 07:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | both, otherwise select service wouldn't make sense | 07:08 |
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| budfive | DocScrutinizer51: which number do you give to people? | 07:11 |
| budfive | I got a sip account to complement my cell recently, with the goal to only have my cell number be publicly visible | 07:11 |
| Gorroth | well, squid built on the X86 fremantle sdk | 07:11 |
| Gorroth | now i guess i have to try on the armel version | 07:12 |
| budfive | any way to make calls to the cell number redirect to sip if the phone isn't connected to the cell network that you know of? | 07:12 |
| budfive | the gsm redirect codes don't work for whatever reason | 07:12 |
| Termana | budfive, in answer to your question before, MeeGo/N900 uses a chainloaded u-boot solution to dual boot. Also, the kernel will not work on Maemo, because it is a mainline kernel and mainline kernels have rejected several interfaces that Maemo relies on, which MeeGo has ditched. | 07:12 |
| Termana | and mainline has* | 07:13 |
| Termana | (there is only really one mainline :p) | 07:13 |
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| budfive | Termana: ok... I'm a bit confused. I've only been running the packaged kernel-power kernel, which presumably has the maemo-specific patches applied to it | 07:14 |
| budfive | Termana: and as for the bootloader, it goes nolo->uboot->linux ? | 07:15 |
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| Termana | budfive, exactly. You flash a combined u-boot image as a kernel, which contains u-boot and the Maemo kernel. NOLO will load u-boot see if you have a valid kernel on your SD card, if it does it will boot that one, if not it will boot the combined one and boot Maemo | 07:16 |
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| Termana | budfive, as to why the MeeGo kernel won't work, it's because MeeGo uses a mainline kernel. So the N900 patches have been put into Linus' tree and then that's pulled by MeeGo and used (with some extra patches on top by that's not in consideration here). But Linus' (or rather maintainers for the mainline tree) have rejected some kernel interfaces which Maemo relies on, so those patches didn't go upstream into Linus' tree. MeeGo doesn't | 07:18 |
| Termana | rely on these interfaces | 07:18 |
| ham5 | how do I edit the gconf.xml with out them reverting back when I reboot? | 07:18 |
| ham5 | s/edit/change | 07:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | budfive: install starhash-enabler | 07:20 |
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| budfive | DocScrutinizer: whoa. wait. the codes are disabled without it? | 07:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 07:21 |
| budfive | Termana: thanks | 07:21 |
| budfive | DocScrutinizer: ok. crazy. is doing the gsm redirection the way to go? | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually | 07:22 |
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| johnx | off-topic: anyone ever play with i2o? (not i2c!) | 07:23 |
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| budfive | DocScrutinizer: is it possible for the provider to lock down the redirection number? I'm unable to change the voicebox number in the n900 gui, which makes me suspect funny business from tmobile | 07:24 |
| andrewfblack | budfive: I think that might be set by the sim card | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite usual | 07:24 |
| budfive | so if you can't change it, is there a way for the call to be automatically transferred to the sip number? | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 07:26 |
| budfive | great :) | 07:26 |
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| Gorroth | oh yeah! squid built with all my options under the FREMANTLE_ARMEL scratchbox | 07:32 |
| Gorroth | i hope this means good things when i try running it in the simulator, which will have to happen tomorrow | 07:33 |
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| Gorroth | wb DocScrutinizer | 07:34 |
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| ebzzry_ | Hi! Does anyone here knows how frequent RobbieThe1st logs in here? | 07:47 |
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| TermanaDesire | ebzzry_: often | 07:59 |
| SpeedEvil | !seen robbiethe1st | 08:00 |
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| ebzzry_ | Termana: Thanks. | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~seen robbiethe1st | 08:03 |
| infobot | robbiethe1st <~robbiethe@174-31-2-220.spkn.qwest.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19h 59m 45s ago, saying: 'Quick question: I have a ash script with a loop: while [ -n '$(ps | grep "^ $pid")' ]; do <- it works on my debian box with busybox's ash, but when I actually run the script, it doesn't exit the loop when $pid exits'. | 08:03 |
| ebzzry_ | I want to know how does BackupMenu work. | 08:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which detail? | 08:05 |
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| ebzzry_ | Where are the images stored, for example. | 08:06 |
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| ebzzry | Hmm, do some applications, presumably compatible with PR 1.2, become incompatible with PR 1.3? | 08:17 |
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| TermanaDesire | Its presumably a possibility that it maybe the case | 08:31 |
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| TermanaDesire | Does that not not answer your question? | 08:32 |
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| johnx | ebzzry, yes. I think I ran into an incompatibility with libgles1 (or similar) | 08:32 |
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| ebzzry | Is it documented? Is it reproducible? | 08:33 |
| ebzzry | What are the implications of it? | 08:33 |
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| johnx | I think armagetrod (or gltron?) or something like that | 08:33 |
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| johnx | it had to do with apps that depend on a certain version of gles1 | 08:33 |
| johnx | which is quite different than gles2 | 08:34 |
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| ebzzry | OK. What about show-stopping incompatibilities? Are there any? | 08:34 |
| johnx | not that I've found | 08:35 |
| johnx | but I don't have many apps installed | 08:36 |
| johnx | did you google? | 08:36 |
| johnx | did you read talk.maemo.org? | 08:36 |
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| mece | hello hello maemonians | 09:21 |
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| Termana_ | mece, hello slave boy | 09:28 |
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| mece | lol | 09:29 |
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| mece | is there an app for modifying browser user agent or does one do that directly? | 09:32 |
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| valdyn | mece: use the search function in the app manager? | 09:34 |
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| valdyn | mece: HideUserAgent | 09:35 |
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| ieatlint | alright, the riot outside was funny at first, but now it's just getting ridiculous | 09:37 |
| mece | thanks valdyn, I was going to pretend I'm a palm pre :) | 09:37 |
| mece | ieatlint, riot? Where? | 09:37 |
| ieatlint | san francisco | 09:37 |
| johnx | aaaah, you guys are having a riot and you didn't invite me | 09:39 |
| johnx | ? | 09:39 |
| mece | ieatlint, what is it about? Teabagger party, prop8 or what? | 09:39 |
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| ieatlint | you can come out and join, it's still going strong | 09:39 |
| ieatlint | mece: no, something far far lamer | 09:39 |
| ieatlint | baseball. | 09:39 |
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| mece | ieatlint, noooo | 09:39 |
| johnx | <_< | 09:39 |
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| mece | ieatlint, that is lame. | 09:40 |
| johnx | wow...that sucks | 09:40 |
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| ieatlint | no one cared about baseball here, and then we won the league championship, and now it's an awesome excuse to start fires and throw bottles | 09:40 |
| mece | hahaha | 09:40 |
| ieatlint | they're actually throwing bottles at the firefighters that are responding to the fires, and stealing their firehoses | 09:41 |
| johnx | just tell them $local_politician wants to shut down funding for $local_team and they live at $place_you_want_demolished | 09:41 |
| mece | johnx, for reals | 09:41 |
| mece | ieatlint, attacking firefighters is always constructive... | 09:41 |
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| ieatlint | http://twitpic.com/335z8h a beautiful night in the city.. | 09:43 |
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| johnx | that's some craziness | 09:44 |
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| johnx | (this actually makes someone else's blog entry make a lot more sense now ...) | 09:45 |
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| crashanddie | sup #maemo | 09:59 |
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| mece | hmm perhaps this could be useful: http://forums.precentral.net/gsm-pre/234260-ipk-fetcher.html | 10:03 |
| * mece is experimenting with preenv | 10:03 | |
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| anger | has someone managed to use ms office communicator on n900? | 10:08 |
| Surfa | yes | 10:09 |
| anger | I suppose it only works with pidgin, not with the default messenger app? | 10:09 |
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| Surfa | it's possible with suitable plugins also with default messenger app | 10:09 |
| anger | really? | 10:09 |
| anger | what plugin exactly? | 10:09 |
| anger | I installed the office communicator plugin for pidgin, but it was only visible in pidgin | 10:10 |
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| Surfa | can't help you with details, but it's possible anyway :) | 10:11 |
| anger | :) | 10:11 |
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| anger | You have office communicator listed on your account list? | 10:11 |
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| anger | or do you use sip? | 10:12 |
| chem|st | anger: what is office communicator? another office 2010 bug ehrm feature? | 10:13 |
| Surfa | anger, yes I do | 10:13 |
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| Surfa | not sip | 10:13 |
| danu | Hello guys , i am looking for a tool to swap between mass storage mode and pc suite mode for N900 , rather than unplugging and plugging in the usb cable , is there such a tool available ? | 10:13 |
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| Stskeeps | morn wazd | 10:14 |
| anger | chem|st: similar to msn messenger, just integrates a bit better to outlook etc | 10:14 |
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| anger | chem|st: and includes video confrences and desktop sharing, etc | 10:14 |
| chem|st | anger: so MS skype?! | 10:15 |
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| anger | and most important, it's an enterprise app, so companies buy it :) | 10:15 |
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| anger | chem|st: pretty much so | 10:15 |
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| anger | you just have to pay for this :) | 10:16 |
| danu | i am looking for a tool to swap between mass storage mode and pc suite mode for N900 , rather than unplugging and plugging in the usb cable , is there such a tool available ? | 10:16 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Not sure, though it -is- possible to mount the eMMC while connected via USB(as readonly at least) | 10:18 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, so, how is the armv6 build going? any snags yet? | 10:19 |
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| danu | i am seriously fed up with unplugging and plugging the usb cable | 10:19 |
| danu | i dont want to hurt my N900 :( | 10:19 |
| johnx | <- wrong channel | 10:19 |
| RobbieThe1st | so, wait... why do you need to switch, again? | 10:19 |
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| mece | danu why are you plugging and unplugging? | 10:20 |
| danu | since i am on linux , in order to switch to mass storage mode from pc suite mode , i have to unplug and plug the cable | 10:20 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, but I mean, why do you need to switch between modes? | 10:20 |
| danu | sometimes i have to copy files into N900 | 10:21 |
| danu | and sometimes i have to use internet on N900 | 10:21 |
| mece | danu scp is your friend | 10:21 |
| danu | i cannot do both with same mode | 10:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | ^^ | 10:21 |
| danu | scp is good | 10:21 |
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| danu | but i prefer a tool to switch those modes :D | 10:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | Not sure that's possible | 10:21 |
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| danu | it shud be possible | 10:21 |
| danu | its a matter of research i guess | 10:22 |
| mece | only reason I've had to plug the usb cable is to use flasher to boot meego. | 10:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | But, heck, with linux - You can just use the filemanager to login via ssh | 10:22 |
| mece | danu, no wlan? | 10:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | drag+drop support is easy | 10:22 |
| danu | lets say i am on storage mode on N900 , i cannot use internet on N900 | 10:22 |
| mece | danu, erm wot? | 10:22 |
| danu | and when N900 is on PC suite mode , i cannot use internet on the PC | 10:23 |
| tybollt | woot | 10:23 |
| danu | sorry No Wlan | 10:23 |
| danu | i am using usb networking | 10:23 |
| danu | :D | 10:23 |
| mece | danu, aah so you use your n900 for 3g tethering? | 10:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | danu: Put it on pc-suite mode, then use ssh for everything else | 10:23 |
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| johnx | ssh / sftp / sshfs is the way to go | 10:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | You can use SSH for internet access - setup a tunnel between devices, or for file copying | 10:24 |
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| johnx | only need to switch to usb mass storage for huuuge file transferes | 10:24 |
| danu | okay | 10:24 |
| mece | hm what's the command for refreshing icon cache again? gtk icon cache something something? | 10:24 |
| mece | hmpf | 10:24 |
| danu | until i get a tool to switch modes , i am going to use ssh :D | 10:24 |
| danu | thanks for the tip guys :D | 10:24 |
| mece | found it. gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor | 10:25 |
| danu | another thing , i am using maep and mappero for maps on N900 , but not really satisfied with it , any other alternatives ? | 10:26 |
| andrewfblack | danu: geeps | 10:26 |
| danu | andrew thanks let me test it | 10:27 |
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| danu | andrew : does it support offline tracking ? | 10:28 |
| Jaffa | mece: You're not supposed to need that since PR1.1 (it became a no-op) | 10:29 |
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| RobbieThe1st | offline tracking? | 10:30 |
| danu | lets say once the maps are downloaded , then that app does not need internet again | 10:31 |
| danu | that is what i wanted to mean | 10:31 |
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| RobbieThe1st | So, if you don't have a data plan, it | 10:31 |
| RobbieThe1st | 's still usable? | 10:31 |
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| kerio | RobbieThe1st: hmm, no | 10:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | Wait... what GPS-software -does- allow that? | 10:33 |
| danu | here 3G is expensive | 10:33 |
| RobbieThe1st | i.e. download maps at home, use it on-the-go without internet | 10:33 |
| danu | so i am sharing my broadband with N900 | 10:33 |
| danu | and use it to download maps into N900 | 10:34 |
| danu | so when i am on the go , app shud use the downloaded maps for tracking | 10:34 |
| danu | exactly Rabbie ! | 10:34 |
| aquatix | danu: i can recommend Sygic | 10:34 |
| aquatix | works offline | 10:34 |
| aquatix | and works quite well here | 10:35 |
| danu | Sygic does not have maps for my country :( | 10:35 |
| aquatix | oh :( | 10:35 |
| aquatix | really? it has a lot of maps | 10:35 |
| aquatix | may i ask which country you're from? | 10:35 |
| danu | of course i am from Sri Lanka :D | 10:35 |
| danu | even ovi maps are not available :( | 10:35 |
| danu | only google maps work | 10:35 |
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| aquatix | :( | 10:36 |
| danu | so app has to use google maps and has to work without internet :D | 10:36 |
| danu | maep works but map images are blurred | 10:37 |
| Myrtti | sounds hilarious and repetetive | 10:37 |
| danu | Myrtti of course | 10:37 |
| danu | its hard to explain | 10:37 |
| danu | :D | 10:37 |
| danu | app has to use saved google maps when i am on the go | 10:37 |
| aquatix | hey Myrtti :) | 10:38 |
| mece | rednecks vs aliens sounds like a good game.... | 10:38 |
| aquatix | i think there's some app for caching google maps and/or openstreetmap | 10:38 |
| danu | gmapcatcher shud be the tool | 10:39 |
| danu | for that | 10:39 |
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| danu | but i am not sure whether its ported into N900 | 10:39 |
| aquatix | mece: interesting subject | 10:39 |
| mece | let's see if it works on N900 then... | 10:39 |
| Myrtti | listening to SF police scanner they just relieved the coppers working overtime | 10:39 |
| danu | mece , good luck :D | 10:40 |
| mece | danu, :) | 10:40 |
| Jaffa | RobbieThe1st: Wayfinder did exactly that in Diablo; and - as aquatix says - I believe Sygic works the same. | 10:41 |
| Jaffa | Any GPS software which requires a network connection for one or more of: maps, searching, routing is just not a go-er for me; since I mostly use GPS when driving around Europe and don't want to be paying a fortune for roaming data. | 10:41 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 10:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | Sygic might be a good idea, but its too pricy for me now | 10:46 |
| danu | also Sygic has no maps for my country :( | 10:46 |
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| RST38h | Well...moo. | 11:02 |
| mece | hmpf. apparently the ipkfetcher doesn't actually fetch the ipk's :/ | 11:03 |
| mece | only creates a dummy that can be upgraded with palm pre catalog app. | 11:03 |
| danu | guys , when i connect the N900 on PC Suite Mode , I can access internet on N900 , but not on the PC , definitely due to a dns issue , do you know any solution to this ? | 11:06 |
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| jacktheripper | is it possible to send two fake simultaneous touch inputs to an application ? | 11:09 |
| jacekowski | not at the moment | 11:11 |
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| jacekowski | there is no touch support at the moment | 11:11 |
| jacekowski | it's all using mouse events | 11:11 |
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| RobbieThe1st | danu: /etc/resolv.conf | 11:11 |
| danu | # Generated by NetworkManager | 11:12 |
| danu | nameserver 192.168.2.1 | 11:12 |
| danu | this is what on my PC | 11:12 |
| danu | shall i add more dns into that ? | 11:12 |
| jacekowski | danu: hmm, how are you connecting to internet on pc | 11:12 |
| RobbieThe1st | It can't hurt | 11:13 |
| danu | via my ADSL router | 11:13 |
| jacekowski | danu: i mean just connecting phone in pc suite mode isn't going to do it | 11:13 |
| jacekowski | hmm, so ok | 11:13 |
| jacekowski | you have adsl router | 11:13 |
| jacekowski | so how is n900 related | 11:13 |
| jacekowski | i mean it's your adsl router/your pc problem | 11:13 |
| danu | i guess so | 11:13 |
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| RobbieThe1st | danu: have you followed the wiki page? | 11:14 |
| danu | nope | 11:15 |
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| danu | u mean usb networking wiki page ? | 11:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | yea | 11:15 |
| danu | i managed to get Internet working on N900 following that | 11:15 |
| jacekowski | what are you doing? | 11:15 |
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| jacktheripper | jacekowski, is there *touch* input specifically, or it's all done using multiple mouse cursors on linux ? | 11:16 |
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| jacekowski | jacktheripper: there is no touch support on linux | 11:17 |
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| defragger | button | 11:18 |
| defragger | ups | 11:18 |
| defragger | wrong window sorry | 11:18 |
| danu | yay now internet works both on N900 and PC !!!! | 11:18 |
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| RobbieThe1st | webOS, however... | 11:21 |
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| jacekowski | jacktheripper: and multitouch is not there as well | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | RobbieThe1st: that's vendor specific implementation | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | using non standard sdl extensions | 11:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | Do we have any non-standard sdl extensions on the N900? | 11:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | if only for single-touch | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | nope | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | it's all done via mouse | 11:21 |
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| jacekowski | and on n900 we have X for display | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | and sdl is working on top of that | 11:21 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Out of curiosity, is there a way to adjust the amount of pressure needed for a "click" to register? | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | no | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | it's just how resistive touchscreen works | 11:21 |
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| X-Fade | Well, that is not entirely correct. | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | you have to push it for two resistive layers to touch | 11:21 |
| X-Fade | Preasure is being measured. | 11:21 |
| X-Fade | *Presure | 11:21 |
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| RobbieThe1st | or, can you tell the -size- of the touched area? | 11:21 |
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| jacekowski | X-Fade: as far as i know it's only contact surface | 11:21 |
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| X-Fade | No, it has a lot of levels. They are available. | 11:21 |
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| jacktheripper | paint uses pressure sensitivity, try it | 11:21 |
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| jacekowski | but is it based on real pressure or just surface? | 11:21 |
| danu | anybody had success with gmapcatcher ? | 11:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | does it matter either way? | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | yes | 11:22 |
| jacekowski | it will behave differently with a stick and differently with a finger | 11:22 |
| jacktheripper | if this http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/projects/mpx/ could be ported.. | 11:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | You should be able to get it to respond to a lighter touch by setting the size-threshold at least | 11:22 |
| jacekowski | jacktheripper: there was something about something similiar being implemented in vanilia xorg | 11:23 |
| jacekowski | jacktheripper: but i'm not sure if it ever got implemented fully | 11:23 |
| jacekowski | anyways | 11:23 |
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| jacekowski | time to do some work | 11:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | thing is, I have a screen protector and find it very handy to use a mechanical pencil lead to touch buttons(mainly on the Almost TI calculator)... but it's hard to get presses to register. They do, but it takes quite a bit of force | 11:24 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I recall the N770 having an adjustment for that - you could set the level(defaulted to '40') | 11:24 |
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| jacktheripper | ubuntu 10.10 actually does have multitouch support, I'll look into later | 11:26 |
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| SkyscraperN900 | hi | 11:40 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Quick little question - Using busybox tools, what would be the best way to get the available bytes number from a specific line of df? I've already figured out that "df | grep ^/dev/mmcblk0p1" gets the correct line - What's the best way to separate it? | 12:20 |
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| RST38h | cut? | 12:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | I messed with that, but ran into an issue with multiple tabs - cut doesn't like them | 12:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | ideally, it'd be something like an advanced regular expression - [[:space:]]{1,} is perfect for selecting one or more tabs... But I don't know of any way to get back only selected chunks | 12:23 |
| RST38h | awk? | 12:23 |
| pupnik_ | even simpler is the 'cut' command | 12:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | alright, I'll look into it | 12:24 |
| pupnik_ | unix was designed for exactly such stuff | 12:24 |
| sx0n | tr | cut | 12:24 |
| RobbieThe1st | heh, yea | 12:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | Perfect. Current solution: "busybox df | grep ^/dev/mmcblk0p1 | tr '\t' ' ' | cut -d ' ' -f 4" <- free space on MyDocs | 12:29 |
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| sx0n | charming | 12:30 |
| RobbieThe1st | And this is why I'm never going back to Windows if I can help it | 12:31 |
| sx0n | yep. | 12:31 |
| sx0n | sed is also capable tool but little more challenging | 12:32 |
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| ajf_ | how do I change the close button in the top right to a back button in a C/GTK/Hildon application? I can't see any relevant function in HildonWindow or the GTK additions documentation | 12:35 |
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| alterego | weird, camkeyd injects key presses instead of using the dbus call to get to the dashboard. | 13:00 |
| agi | 1;3C | 13:02 |
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| alterego | ~seen Venemo | 13:07 |
| infobot | venemo <~communi@netacc-gpn-4-61-231.pool.telenor.hu> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 33m 16s ago, saying: 'hey Noobmonk3y'. | 13:07 |
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| PaulFertser | iksaif: hey, i do not get it. How do they plan to release the fix if it's only for the 1.1 branch? Do they plan to update qtmobility in the repos to 1.1 or what? | 13:24 |
| PaulFertser | iksaif: i mean who's managing the official maemo repos (not extras)? Should he be notified an update is a must? | 13:25 |
| jacekowski | they don't plan to | 13:32 |
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| X-Fade | Qtm is a separate meta package, so in theory it can be easily updated. | 13:34 |
| PaulFertser | X-Fade: it would be rather nice. There's a critical error making some gps-using apps segfault on start. | 13:35 |
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| alterego | PaulFertser: what error? | 13:36 |
| alterego | My app works fine that uses the GPS | 13:36 |
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| PaulFertser | jacekowski: "David Laing: I'll do what I can from my end to get the fix integrated as soon as possible." http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-646 | 13:36 |
| alterego | Is it a known bug? | 13:36 |
| PaulFertser | alterego: ^^ see this url. | 13:36 |
| alterego | Thanks | 13:36 |
| PaulFertser | The fix is already committed to the 1.1 branch. | 13:37 |
| alterego | Oh, nasty | 13:37 |
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| alterego | We don't really have small updates for maemo | 13:37 |
| alterego | Not even security patches ;) | 13:37 |
| PaulFertser | alterego: who manages the repository (not extra?) then? | 13:38 |
| alterego | nokia? :) | 13:38 |
| PaulFertser | alterego: why can't he gradually update it when needed? | 13:38 |
| alterego | Because they need to go through all that QA testing stuff :P | 13:38 |
| X-Fade | PaulFertser: The SSU repos are managed by Nokia. | 13:38 |
| alterego | And release new images onto tablets-dev | 13:39 |
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| alterego | This sounds like a job for MohammadAG51 and his community SSU ;) | 13:39 |
| PaulFertser | X-Fade: lol, and that's called Maemo community :) | 13:39 |
| mece | could I have an uname -a from a standard pr1.3 kernel plz? | 13:40 |
| X-Fade | PaulFertser: No, the nokia ones. | 13:40 |
| alterego | PaulFertser: no, Nokia firmware updates :P | 13:40 |
| alterego | mece: Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown | 13:40 |
| mece | alterego, thanks | 13:40 |
| alterego | np | 13:40 |
| mece | is this different from, say, titan's whatnot kernel? | 13:41 |
| X-Fade | Anyway, qtm lives in the Nokia apps repo. Which can update without a firmware release. | 13:41 |
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| X-Fade | So that will make it a lot easier for it to be updated. | 13:41 |
| alterego | mece: no idea, I think so | 13:41 |
| psycho_oreos | mece, yes, the versioning is different | 13:41 |
| PaulFertser | X-Fade: i'm sorry for being unclear again. What i implied was: "maemo community is weak and _still_ can't manage to convince nokia to do the right thing wrt repositories". | 13:41 |
| mece | psycho_oreos: ok, thanks. | 13:41 |
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| mece | psycho_oreos, do you have that installed? Could you show what it says? | 13:41 |
| alterego | PaulFertser: I think that's a bit harsh, have you personally tried to move Nokia to do something? | 13:41 |
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| X-Fade | PaulFertser: Do you have something constructive to add or are you just being a troll? | 13:42 |
| PaulFertser | Just being a troll, and i'm stopping now. | 13:42 |
| alterego | :) | 13:42 |
| psycho_oreos | mece, I have it installed and have the versioning changed.. I think from memory, titan's kernel version would be something like 2.6.28.power-?? (where ?? equates to the version number installed) | 13:42 |
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| PaulFertser | alterego: in fact i think that if _all_ maemo community councils threatened to resign, it would make nokia listen. Nobody's tried that yet afaik. And i'm not making any personal attacks here while i'm being constantly bullied, so it doesn't seem like discussing this topic here can lead me anywhere. | 13:45 |
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| alterego | PaulFertser: I don't think Nokia would care if the council went on strike or resigned. | 13:45 |
| alterego | And the community is a lot more than just the council, the council are our channel to Nokia. | 13:45 |
| alterego | If you have a problem, then go to a council member and get the to raise it to Nokia | 13:46 |
| gomiam | . | 13:46 |
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| PaulFertser | alterego: already did. PR1.2 privacy breach. The only council who cared resigned by now. That's all that happened. The majority of the community is unaware of the problem. | 13:47 |
| alterego | Really? | 13:47 |
| PaulFertser | afair | 13:47 |
| alterego | I think a lot of peopel _area_ aware of that proble, | 13:47 |
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| alterego | ~problem | 13:47 |
| infobot | [problem] http://i.imgur.com/VO1NP.jpg | 13:47 |
| alterego | And we, the community, have a fix for that issue | 13:48 |
| PaulFertser | alterego: rather a workaround. | 13:48 |
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| alterego | It's Nokia's policy to have that MyNokia crap, what did you expect to actually happen? | 13:48 |
| mece | thanks psycho_oreos. | 13:49 |
| alterego | Do you think N900 users should be treated differently to other Nokia customers? | 13:49 |
| alterego | Personally, I'd settle for them treating us the same ^.^ | 13:49 |
| psycho_oreos | mece, nw | 13:49 |
| PaulFertser | alterego: after they discovered the error (no opt-out for some users) they should have published sources for cherry (so everybody could be sure about what info went to nokia) and release a really fixed version with a 100%-errorfree opt-out option. | 13:49 |
| PaulFertser | Since they didn't and nobody resigned in the protest, well, that's the community choice to be treated like that. | 13:50 |
| alterego | The opt out is give your phone back .. | 13:50 |
| alterego | It says this on the box. | 13:50 |
| PaulFertser | Now i +q myself. | 13:50 |
| phellarv | mece: About http://is.gd/gC3Ec - "You must be using the PR1.3 kernel and nothing else." - Does this mean that if I'm using Titans Kernel, I cannot use your guide? | 13:50 |
| X-Fade | PaulFertser: What makes you think it was an error. | 13:50 |
| mece | phellarv, well, might be. | 13:50 |
| mece | phellarv, if you don't mind reflashing, feel free to try it ;) | 13:51 |
| alterego | It isn't an error, we may not like it, but it's intentional and it's Nokia policy. | 13:51 |
| phellarv | mece: I take that answere as a challenge ;-P | 13:51 |
| X-Fade | PaulFertser: It is written on the box: Registration via SMS required. | 13:51 |
| X-Fade | PaulFertser: If you don't like that, don't buy it in the first place? | 13:51 |
| alterego | I think, in some ways, we should think ourselves lucky, the fact our system is so open we can hack it to not send the sms | 13:52 |
| Sargun_Screen | dude | 13:52 |
| alterego | How do you think all those Symbian useres feel? They can't do sch*t :P | 13:52 |
| Myrtti | resigned? I thought their term just came to a predetermined end. | 13:52 |
| mece | phellarv, Stskeeps says he's fairly certain it wont work. I look forward to your test results :D | 13:52 |
| PaulFertser | X-Fade: i do not think that's accurate. For mynokia services registration is required. But it's not said anywhere that using mynokia is required for using the phone. I've carefully read the related bugreport and saw some photos of package etc. | 13:52 |
| alterego | (my photos) :D | 13:53 |
| PaulFertser | alterego: Freerunner _is_ an open system. What you've get there is loosy compromise. | 13:53 |
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| PaulFertser | s/there/here with n900/ | 13:53 |
| infobot | PaulFertser meant: alterego: Freerunner _is_ an open system. What you've get here with n900 is loosy compromise. | 13:53 |
| Sargun_Screen | n900 vs. freerunner | 13:54 |
| * alterego sighs | 13:54 | |
| Myrtti | you people need more cheesecake | 13:54 |
| PaulFertser | And tofu | 13:55 |
| alterego | Why is it, as soon as you mention the word open, people assume you mean every last nook and cranny. | 13:55 |
| tybollt | Myrtti: sssssh you | 13:55 |
| alterego | We're all well aware of "how" open maemo is on the N900. | 13:55 |
| * tybollt is drooling now | 13:55 | |
| tybollt | aaaaagh cheeeeeeeescake | 13:55 |
| alterego | And imo Freerunner is no competition. | 13:55 |
| alterego | That is why I'm here. | 13:55 |
| Myrtti | tybollt: guess am I, I've had a cup of lowsy coffee and bilberry soup | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | i vote we rename 'open' as interpreted by the gnubies to 'goatse' | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | which explains the issue more clearly | 13:55 |
| alterego | tybollt: mmm :) Give me some :D | 13:56 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: agreed :D | 13:56 |
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| PaulFertser | /part ragequit | 13:56 |
| alterego | Chill out! :P | 13:57 |
| tybollt | /part EM0QUIT (myrtti will like that one :) | 13:57 |
| Sargun_Screen | Myrtti: dude, give me cheesecake. | 13:57 |
| andax | how fast is the micro sd reader? makes it a difference to use class 4 micro sd cards instead of class 3 cards? | 13:57 |
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| Sargun_Screen | N900 > Freerunner IMHO | 13:57 |
| Sargun_Screen | PaulFertser: don't you remember me :-P | 13:57 |
| Myrtti | Sargun_Screen: who? | 13:57 |
| PaulFertser | Sargun_Screen: hi dude, sure i do. | 13:57 |
| Sargun_Screen | Myrtti: You said I could have more cheesecake. | 13:57 |
| Sargun_Screen | I want some | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: I'd be rather careful to suggest such nonsense like "don't buy, it's mandatory, it stand on the box". It might easily turn to the worse *for Nokia*. This is not a oopsie then, that's easily considered fraud, and competitors might sue Nokia, as well as customers. Also the writing on the box is all but clear in that respect - for me it implies I need SMS reg for *OVI* | 13:59 |
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| alterego | IT also said "This is an Ovi device" | 13:59 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: It says "This is an OVI device" before it. | 13:59 |
| Myrtti | oh, it's always confusing when people refer to me as dude | 13:59 |
| X-Fade | You also need activate an iphone, same difference. | 14:00 |
| alterego | Sure, and google control all of your data on Android, so we're fine :P | 14:00 |
| X-Fade | I personally don't like it, but it is not new. | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: (ovi device) exactly | 14:00 |
| alterego | I don't care :D | 14:00 |
| alterego | Well, it's slightly annoying the amount of times I reflash my device, but the flag is stored on the emmc and I don't flash that as often, so I guess it's okay . | 14:01 |
| PaulFertser | lol, it's "slightly" annoying they're trying to rape you but since you are wearing some "decent enough" protection you do not care, what an attitude. | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: it also sais somewhere "this is a bluetooth device" (OWTTE) - doesn't mean you can't use the phone without BT | 14:02 |
| X-Fade | Your EU money at work: http://blog.symbian.org/2010/11/01/euromillions-for-the-symbian-ecosystem-e22m-committed-to-next-generation-technologies-for-symbian/ | 14:02 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Ahhahahahaha | 14:03 |
| * RST38h does not understand where "google rapes you" mentality is coming from | 14:04 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: see, I get a N900 *because* I don't want google to store my contacts, and I checked all available info about m5 before ordering a N900. It's fraud on Nokia's side to implement such a mandatory dependency only after I bought the device and declare this a normal thing without opt-out | 14:06 |
| PaulFertser | Many BY citizens do not understand why some people feel too constrained in their country too. Probably that's an ex-USSR mentality of not caring about being constrained. :| | 14:07 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: You know that my law you are allowed to return your device within x days, right ;) | 14:07 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: what's m5? | 14:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: haha, x being what? period from 1.0->1.2?? | 14:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maemo 5 aka fremantle | 14:08 |
| RST38h | Paul: Google is not BY | 14:08 |
| RST38h | Paul: Apples are not oranges. | 14:09 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: i used an anology to illustrate my idea. | 14:09 |
| PaulFertser | I know analogy is not proof, everybody does in fact. | 14:09 |
| RST38h | Paul: Analogy between two unrelated unsmilar entities is not an analogy | 14:09 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: oh, of course. anyway, was something evil hapenning, or was that hypothetical? | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: check wiki about compulsory registration to mynokia | 14:10 |
| BCMM | RST38h: you see, the n900 is a bit like a car | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | alias rotten cherry | 14:10 |
| Shapeshifter | uh, wtf... is it impossible to edit the imap server address for an account in modest? do I really have to delete the account? what about the mails..... o_o | 14:10 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: i find those entities similar in some respect, you do not, here we just disagree. I'm just talking about people caring about their freedom. | 14:10 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i though that just sms spammed you occasionally? | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's just enough | 14:11 |
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| RST38h | Paul: Except that I am talking about reality and you seem to be talking to your perosnal demons :) | 14:12 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: ok | 14:12 |
| RST38h | Because in reality, you 1) have a choice of not using Android 2) have a choice of not using Android apps | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, NOBODY is spamming me with SMS, and if Nokia thinks they may start it and wake me at 4'o clock in the night by sending me spam SMS while usually every SMS inbound is a RED ALERT for me - figure what I'm feeling to do to Nokia | 14:13 |
| RST38h | In fact, you can SSH from an Android phone to a remote server of your liking, or use a third-party web-based interface to store addresses and send emails | 14:13 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: soviet citizens had a choice of defending their freedom and going to jail, or not defending and not going. | 14:13 |
| BCMM | anyway, is it possible to adjust file associations for the file manager and email client and so on? i want PDF email attachements to open in Evince. | 14:13 |
| Myrtti | PaulFertser: oh for gods sake | 14:13 |
| RST38h | Paul: Right. So, if you do not use an Android phone, do you go to jail? | 14:13 |
| Myrtti | PaulFertser: I know several people who don't use Android or any other Google service other than the search, don't have a google account, and they're doing just fine | 14:14 |
| RST38h | Paul: Care to cite the corresponding article of the criminal code, for the country of your liking? | 14:14 |
| Shapeshifter | what is all this commotion about. .. | 14:14 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Google is evil and assrapes you using green robots | 14:14 |
| Shapeshifter | also, imap settings, how do I change them | 14:14 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: my point is that Nokia can actually be pushed to be less evil but community doesn't care enough about that. | 14:14 |
| BCMM | Shapeshifter: bad analogies, i think | 14:14 |
| Shapeshifter | aww | 14:14 |
| RST38h | Paul: Nokia cannot be "pushed" to be anything | 14:14 |
| BCMM | they seem to think google is like stalin, whereas in actual fact nokia is like a car | 14:15 |
| Myrtti | *snerk* | 14:15 |
| RST38h | Paul: It is a large corporate entity based in Finland, country where you canot even go without a vis | 14:15 |
| Myrtti | BCMM: you have just won the Internets | 14:15 |
| RST38h | Paul: It does not care about you. It does not have to. It is the Phone COmpany. | 14:15 |
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| zutesmog | In fact no public company cares about "any you" only share holders. | 14:16 |
| BCMM | so are file associations harcoded in the ui, or stored in gconf, or what? | 14:16 |
| Myrtti | zutesmog: they care about the average consumer | 14:16 |
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| Myrtti | zutesmog: the problem is that N900 and Maemo 5 aren't average products | 14:17 |
| zutesmog | No they don't, only as far as they can influence them to buy their product | 14:17 |
| Myrtti | zutesmog: indeed | 14:17 |
| Shapeshifter | you can all be happy that google is so rich that they don't yet have to be evil at all. | 14:17 |
| RST38h | correct | 14:17 |
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| Shapeshifter | unlike apple | 14:17 |
| BCMM | publicly-traded companies aren't evil as such. they are just legally oblidged to be entirely amoral | 14:18 |
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| zutesmog | I worked for sun for years and it really tried to do the right thing, engineering cared about products and their customers, but the market insisted that they do things that wheren't in the employees or customers best interests. | 14:18 |
| Gorroth | the good ones care enough not only to get you to buy their product, but to get you liking that product and talkinag about it | 14:18 |
| RST38h | BCMM: A company is not a human being, so it does not have to abide by rules of ethics | 14:18 |
| BCMM | RST38h: exactly | 14:19 |
| Shapeshifter | no. if they produce enough revenue, they can still follow any moral code. they're not pressured as much as a company that doesn't swim in money | 14:19 |
| RST38h | Same goes for states, btw. Too bad some people do not understand that. | 14:19 |
| BCMM | RST38h: and a publicly-traded company does not have a human or small group of humans in control | 14:19 |
| Gorroth | RST38h: the courts might disagree with them being a person in most ways. they get most of the benefits and none of the risk of being a human | 14:20 |
| BCMM | which is why they "don't care" | 14:20 |
| RST38h | So, the rule of thumb is "don't stand where the teeth are, go where it shits golden bricks" | 14:20 |
| zutesmog | Sun had some pretty up their moral statements in its company values (for employees etc.) But the reality of the market meant other things happened. | 14:20 |
| bigbrovar | has anyway been able to get google contact sync to work on the n900 using mail for exchange? | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Gorroth: Yet, they do not have the same liabilities as people | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Besides, Law != Ethics | 14:20 |
| BCMM | a private company with a decent leader and mindset can actually value customers satisfaction for its own sake (as well as for financial reasons) | 14:21 |
| RST38h | but does not have to | 14:21 |
| BCMM | law != ethics is missed a lot lately | 14:22 |
| BCMM | see the parliamentary expenses scandal in the UK lately | 14:22 |
| BCMM | the main excuse was "it wasn't illegal" | 14:22 |
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| Shapeshifter | bah | 14:24 |
| Shapeshifter | I need to get rid of modest | 14:24 |
| Shapeshifter | what a piece of crap | 14:25 |
| Shapeshifter | but how.... | 14:25 |
| RST38h | dpkg -r ? | 14:25 |
| Shapeshifter | alternative? one that runs in the background and fetches mail every x minutes | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: ( return your device within x days ) do you *really* suggest *all* users who feel assraped by nokia cherry should return their maybe 9 months old devices for full refund? Like the dudue who did that for Sony PS when they disabled the linux? | 14:26 |
| Shapeshifter | cherry? the sms? | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription | 14:27 |
| Shapeshifter | while I find it wrong that they do that it's kinda silly to feel assraped because of a single sms. | 14:28 |
| RST38h | It is the PRINCIPLE! | 14:28 |
| Myrtti | more cheesecake | 14:29 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: how is the wiki page going? | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: it's NOT a single SMS. It's a privacy breach as they collect unknown amount of my private data, and they think they are entitled to spam me with SMS | 14:30 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: well it fails anyway | 14:30 |
| jacekowski | btw. is that "feature" removed in 1.3? | 14:30 |
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| jacekowski | or is it just hidden better | 14:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NO, it's NOT! | 14:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for all I know | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: that's the whole point - Nokia didn't even feel like fixing that shit in PR1.3 | 14:32 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: they're asses allright. but it's not like they stole your soul | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: you're sure? | 14:32 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't even know.... in the settings on my device, mynokia only has the unsubscribe button clickable. does this mean I'm subscribed? I don't receive any sms' from nokia.... | 14:35 |
| Shapeshifter | lol but the terms and conditions are ridiculous | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: you walk along the street, I call "STOP, FREEZE" at you, grab you, pull out your purse and take 50ct. Then I put back your purse to your pocket, laugh at you and tell "no move on". You'd shrug and say "oh well it's only 50ct"? | 14:36 |
| andax | thanks for the link DocScrutinizer :) | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: the "unsubscribe" is a "hey dude, if you think what I've done doesn't please you, then give me another 50 ct and *I* will forget I've done it" | 14:37 |
| * Myrtti hands out pop corn | 14:38 | |
| BCMM | aren't there some horrible carriers who charge nasty amounts of money if you send texts with no texting plan? | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: "unsubscribe" sends another SMS to Nokia every time you click it :-P | 14:38 |
| Shapeshifter | lol | 14:39 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: so what are you trying to do now | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: do you think Nokia cares? | 14:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: I tried to start a "send Nokia your cherries" campaign last weekend, but I realized I don't have any channels to do such thing that needs high publicity | 14:40 |
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| andax | Shapeshifter: it is reason enough to boycott nokia, especially because no one cares when the SMS suck like a mosquito and cant be blocked even not by the phone service provider. | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: the dude picking your purse won't give spare coins if you got no 50ct in exact amount | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm persobally temped to click on unsubscribe 200 times, to rise the damage value above a marginality threshold, *then* sue Nokia for recompensating me for the 40EUR | 14:45 |
| andax | this is like selling servers, nit mentioning you have been giving root acccess to a teenage cap gang | 14:45 |
| andax | nit -> not | 14:45 |
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| frals | DocScrutinizer: is it sending an sms each time you press unsubscribe? | 14:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | frals: AIUI yes | 14:47 |
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| roadi | i bricked my n900 with updating from pr 1.2 to 1.3 :( | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | it sends an SMS to unsubscribe, and it doesn't know about subscription state. So what else could it do than 1 SMS / click? | 14:48 |
| roadi | i did the dist-upgrade in the terminal-session | 14:48 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: so what does the campaign do, there's nothing on it on the wiki page | 14:48 |
| X-Fade | roadi: Congrats :) | 14:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: I thought of hundereds of users sending all kinds of (preferably rotten) cherry products to Nokia | 14:49 |
| X-Fade | roadi: You can fix your device by flashing the PR1.3 image though. So it is not really bricked. | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | roadi: you should have done /topc here | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | topic even | 14:50 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: cute. I'm in. Why not put it on the maemo news page and possibly other forums | 14:50 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.tomps.com/shop/polymorph-thermoplastic-250g-p-208.html "Remake Injection Moulded Parts" | 14:50 |
| roadi | X-Fade: is there an known way to debrick wothout flashing? | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | roadi: not treally | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | roadi: No, you shouldn't have done that. | 14:51 |
| X-Fade | roadi: Where did you read to do that? | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | /topic -> ... PR1.3 being released slowly but surely. Be patient. DO NOT apt-get -dist-upgrade! See ~pr1.3 | 14:51 |
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| roadi | DocScrutinizer: irssi and the default screen resolution does not show the full (and important part) text | 14:52 |
| roadi | damn | 14:53 |
| roadi | but okay - my fault. | 14:53 |
| roadi | or is there a way for booting from a sd card and copying all important files? | 14:53 |
| Shapeshifter | roadi: /topic | 14:53 |
| Shapeshifter | so, is there a way of copying all the mails from the sent folder (local) to somewhere else? | 14:54 |
| roadi | Shapeshifter: "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Com" <- i know the /topic command but hey i am not reading 24/7 every topic change. :( | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | roadi: anyway, remove your SIM before flashing PR1.3, and study http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription - if you're concerned about your privacy and money | 14:58 |
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| E0x | morning | 14:59 |
| andax | Shapeshifter: maybe roadi should have asked: "is in maemo an equivalent to PC BIOS accessable to choose a temporary boot device (i.e. SD card)without being a autochthon maemo hacker?" | 15:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andax: answer is: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd | 15:03 |
| roadi | andax: right. btw i dont wanna solder any jtag. ;) | 15:04 |
| roadi | thx | 15:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but that still won't restore your fubar rootfs to a sane state | 15:04 |
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| andax | DocScrutinizer: sounds like a huge amount of work... i remember the n900 was sold as _linux_ phone but as we go along with maemo there is a plenty of things completely different to linux as we knew it | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I know quite a number of sometimes really screwed linux flavours | 15:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maemo not being one of the weirdest | 15:11 |
| andax | DocScrutinizer: full ack | 15:13 |
| jaska | a weirder linux flavor is available on android phones :) | 15:13 |
| aquatix | myeah, an android phone isn't really a linux device | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | OpenEmbedded for example seems has adopted the notion there's no use in a proper user account on an "embedded" device, so /home/root is the only $HOME available (sic!) | 15:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | /system/etc, ha | 15:14 |
| aquatix | DocScrutinizer: :/ | 15:14 |
| aquatix | DocScrutinizer: does it have X? | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:15 |
| andax | is android really weirder? i dont know, i only had a few minutes on a android so far | 15:15 |
| * aquatix loves android btw | 15:15 | |
| aquatix | but you shouldn't think about it as a linux device | 15:15 |
| aquatix | linux is only there in the underpinnings | 15:15 |
| nidO | well its wierder in that its not strictly "a linux device" | 15:15 |
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| nidO | its just a nix kernel running the java system | 15:15 |
| aquatix | java-ish | 15:15 |
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| aquatix | which is less jucky then it sounds :P | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | adridiotisms like wakelocks are more bothering me than java'ish userland apps | 15:17 |
| aquatix | heh, yeah | 15:18 |
| andax | well, the term "linux" usually included GNU. Maybe in debian it was more clearly defined as GNU/linux instead. My preferred definition of linux was the whole systen and not only the kernel. GNU/linux is somewhat unspellable anyway | 15:18 |
| aquatix | it's GNU/Linux anyway | 15:19 |
| aquatix | :P | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | prepare to receive private spanking of RMS :-P | 15:19 |
| madduck | ~flashing | 15:20 |
| infobot | from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 15:20 |
| aquatix | andax: strictly, things like gnome aren't linux-only | 15:20 |
| aquatix | GNU/Linux (or just linux) is really just the kernel | 15:20 |
| andax | yeah, gnome is on opensolaris as well, for example | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, GNU is the userland mainly | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | coreutils-gnu etc | 15:21 |
| aquatix | andax: yeah, used it on regular Solaris in 2000 already, for example | 15:21 |
| Shapeshifter | ._. modest is so fucking broken | 15:21 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: I'm much more concerned about shitty modest than cherry | 15:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | now I have two inboxes | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I couldn't care less about modest. I'm not doing huge mailing tasks on N900, I got webmailers for everything not liftable via modest, and I'm free to patch modest and also to install alternatives like claws | 15:23 |
| aquatix | is claws still being updated for maemo? | 15:24 |
| * aquatix still has 3.7.1 on his n810 | 15:24 | |
| aquatix | which is oldish | 15:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I can't blame Nokia for shipping apps that are crappy but free. I'm highly concerned and upset if Nokia goes rogue though | 15:25 |
| crashanddie | there is no f'ing GNU/Linux. | 15:25 |
| Shapeshifter | the apps aren't exactly 'free'. it's not like you're paying for the hardware only | 15:25 |
| Shapeshifter | free as in freedom, maybe | 15:26 |
| crashanddie | Only Linux, which happens to be GPL. | 15:26 |
| tybollt | crashie: ? do elaborate | 15:26 |
| tybollt | crashanddie: Tell that to toe-cheese Stallman | 15:26 |
| crashanddie | but there is nothing of GNU that is linked to Linux per se. | 15:26 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: old discussion, but GNU/Linux usually refers to linux kernel + gnu toolset iirc. | 15:26 |
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| crashanddie | Shapeshifter, aye, which in the case of maemo, isn't the case at all | 15:26 |
| Shapeshifter | indeed | 15:26 |
| crashanddie | It ships with busybox, which isn't GNU AFAIR | 15:26 |
| aquatix | anyone ported GNU/Hurd to n900? | 15:26 |
| aquatix | (speaking of truly GNU kernels) | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | muhahaha | 15:27 |
| madduck | is the flasher app not available as amd64? | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, afaik | 15:28 |
| madduck | wtf nokia? | 15:28 |
| andax | i believe gnu hurd kernel is a urban legend at all :) | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are instructions on ~flashing how to run the 32bit flasher on a 64bit system | 15:29 |
| tybollt | orly? | 15:29 |
| tybollt | that would've helped me bout three months ago | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | not? | 15:29 |
| * tybollt travels back in time | 15:29 | |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: just whining they weren't there previously ;) | 15:30 |
| alterego | Just install ia32 libs | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 15:33 |
| Shapeshifter | bah | 15:37 |
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| Shapeshifter | I don't understand any of modest' code | 15:37 |
| Shapeshifter | there's so many files. How should one know which does what | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's the Nokia way of "FOSS" (though not invented by them). Just dump enough random undocumented uncommented source on community so nobody will ever dare to touch it :-P It seems this method originally been invented by US lawyers - "You forced us to disclose the files. So here you go, down in the street there are 3 vans full with paper, please unload rapidly!" | 15:50 |
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| flux | so you believe they have internal documentation that's better than provided? | 15:51 |
| Shapeshifter | well, the modest source is actually commented pretty well. Almost prefectly. But I just fail at C or reading 100 C files and knowing what does what | 15:51 |
| Shapeshifter | in the end, you'd have to spend too much time trying to figure out the architechture, while I bet the dude who wrote this would probably need to spend one hour max. to make the sent mails go to the sent mails IMAP folder instead of only having local copies... | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: ^^^ this is your answer :-D | 15:53 |
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| Shapeshifter | why don't they just do it, it's so fucking obvious | 15:54 |
| Shapeshifter | what's the point of IMAP without that | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | Shapeshifter: I guess you could ask pvanhoof for pointers, as he worked on it in the early days at least. | 15:54 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, so, in other words, they are not doing extra effort so that others can easier time diving in.. | 15:56 |
| flux | +have | 15:56 |
| andax | At least the unix man command could link to a internet ressource instead of showing "nothing", like it is done in puppy linux | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: exactly | 15:56 |
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| flux | andax, how does puppy linux do it? | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | andax: ?? | 15:56 |
| madduck | function man() { echo http://manpages.net/$1;; } | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's man-db-n900 pkg | 15:57 |
| mgedmin | there were talks about ubuntu doing something like this | 15:57 |
| mgedmin | there's a dman script out there | 15:57 |
| mgedmin | http://manpages.ubuntu.com/dman | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | madduck: I suggested this ~9 months ago :-) | 15:57 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, modest's imap code is implemented in tinymail | 15:57 |
| flux | mgedmin, well, that's not the same user experience as 'man man' gives ;) | 15:57 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, tinymail.org | 15:57 |
| madduck | DocScrutinizer: sorry, but i applied for the patent. ;) | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | take it :-D | 15:57 |
| flux | (hmph, I meant madduck) | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I consider the approach highly useless anyway, esp for things like "man ifconfig" etc X-P | 15:58 |
| mgedmin | for the record, dman utterly fails to work for me -- and I use ubuntu | 15:58 |
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| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer++ | 15:58 |
| mgedmin | but a networked fallback for random package you haven't installed would be nifty | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ack | 15:59 |
| mgedmin | speaking of which, are dict's online servers down or what? | 15:59 |
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| andax | DocScrutinizer: i installed that package but seems very incomplete. I am also a bit confused which terminal program can run which program. The man script from puppy linux is maintained by barry kauler himself | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | madduck: btw my suggestion was way smarter, substituting "echo " by "dbus-send bla blub..." to launch the browser with correct page | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | madduck: you're free to augment your pattent application :-) | 16:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | pvanhoof: thanks | 16:04 |
| madduck | DocScrutinizer: my browser is not dbus aware and hopefully will never be. your method is flawed. ;) | 16:05 |
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| andax | the somewhat "layered" filesystem hierarchy standard of maemo still makes me nuts | 16:07 |
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| Shapeshifter | dbus? ._ | 16:08 |
| Shapeshifter | how about xdg-open | 16:08 |
| madduck | how about not assuming X? | 16:09 |
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| Khertan_ | Hello all ! | 16:09 |
| Shapeshifter | madduck: point taken | 16:09 |
| panattan | Kaadlajk hi | 16:09 |
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| ShadowJK | whoah, the eastmaze battery actually measures as 1320-1350 with bq27200 | 16:11 |
| ShadowJK | (claimed 1500) | 16:12 |
| * ShadowJK wasn't expecting that much :D | 16:12 | |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: seems to get increasingly difficult for copycats to get cheap reduced-capacity cells. The original ones are way cheaper just for the mere volume built. So they don't go for reduced size but instead for reduced quality. Like cleanroom been contaminated, one day's production sold for pennies with the warning "might catch fire or explode, due to pierced separator" XP | 16:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also it seems rather common in far east to run "dark shifts" and produce any quantity of crappy untested stuff to sell to gray market without knowledge of the company | 16:19 |
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| wazd | Hello everyone | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: see bunnie's report about SD cards | 16:20 |
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| andax | . o O ( also exploding SD cards? oh god... ) | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi wazd | 16:22 |
| wazd | DocScrutinizer: o/ | 16:22 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, well the contaminated stuff is usually lower capacity too :) | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | not necessarily aiui | 16:23 |
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| Shapeshifter | pvanhoof: so apparently, the tinymail queue will send mails. It needs to know the "sendbox" TnyFolder to copy the sent mail to, and that is implemented amongst others by TnyCamelIMAPFolder so I guess it should be simple to have the sent mails saved on the imap folder instead the local one. However, I don't understand how modest determines the folder. The function it uses (in modest-tny-send-queue.c) is this: http://pastie.org/1266696 ... | 16:24 |
| Shapeshifter | ... but I don't get what this is about, I mean, that means that the queue has a 'sentbox' and I'm looking into the code but there's nothing in modest-tny-account.c or modest-mail-operation.c or anything. Do you remember where the sentbox folder gets set? | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: screw IMAP - it's braindead :-P | 16:26 |
| Shapeshifter | it is? | 16:26 |
| madduck | yet there is nothing better | 16:26 |
| mgedmin | ssh ;) | 16:26 |
| madduck | mgedmin: no offline capability | 16:27 |
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| madduck | hard to share mailboxes | 16:27 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, , so in modest there's a api that returns the TnyFolder that will be the sent folder | 16:27 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, that api you have to replace with an implementation that returns a TnyFolder that points to a folder in your IMAP account | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | even rsync seems saner approach to me than IMAP | 16:28 |
| mgedmin | someone once said it's easier to implement universal Internet connectivity than solve the sync problem | 16:28 |
| * mgedmin uses offlineimap, for the record | 16:28 | |
| madduck | same | 16:28 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, that's it. the rest is abstract | 16:28 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, but ask the modest developers; jdapena and sergio villar (on #tinymail on GimpNET and #modest on this IRC server) | 16:28 |
| Shapeshifter | pvanhoof: okay thanks | 16:28 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, or ask on modest's or tinymail's mailinglist | 16:28 |
| panattan | hi guys, is the qwerty backlight controlled by the light sensor? Coz sometime I notice that the keyboard is off :| | 16:29 |
| Turski | DocScrutinizer: rsync sounds like a good idea for mail | 16:29 |
| Shapeshifter | panattan: yes it is. | 16:29 |
| panattan | oh well :) | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: yeah, great approach. I send a mail, then I send it again to upload it to IMAP server's sent-mail folder | 16:29 |
| pvanhoof | Shapeshifter, I don't remember the exact modest_* api , that's too long ago | 16:29 |
| Shapeshifter | right | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | panattan: yes, in mce - lart mce | 16:30 |
| panattan | Shapeshifter i was planning to dissamble my device he he | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, I assume you know anything about mail? Because you're making the kinds of claims a clown would make | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | But go ahead | 16:30 |
| pvanhoof | Perhaps you find somebody who'll actually code your crazy ideas :) | 16:30 |
| panattan | but i'll do to adjust the resistance of the keyboard | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: haha | 16:30 |
| * RST38h hehes at pvanhoof | 16:31 | |
| pvanhoof | rsync a Maildir folder :) | 16:31 |
| wazd | Guys, if anyone can help me with some basic flash script - that would be awesome :) | 16:31 |
| pvanhoof | Could work, it's not exactly close to the use-case "email", but sure | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not a crazy idea, it's what I see happening every day with my friggin local-IMAP account I'm urged to use | 16:31 |
| RST38h | Should I simply remember two of three most despised parts of Maemo? | 16:31 |
| RST38h | Tracker and Modest? =) | 16:31 |
| alterego | Reall wonderful when the N900 goes through it's annoying auto-update process whilst I'm trying to develop with Qt creator .. | 16:31 |
| andax | DocScrutinizer: main channel of puppy is just around the corner, on freenode: /join #puppylinux | 16:31 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, and I'm involved in both :D | 16:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: o/ | 16:31 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: exactly =) | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andax: relevance? context? | 16:32 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, must be me :) | 16:32 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, and in harmattan there will be even more tracker. but email is going to be different :) | 16:32 |
| RST38h | Tar and feathers, QUICK! | 16:32 |
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| pvanhoof | anyway, meeting | 16:32 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: As long as the goddamn daemon does not think it owns my device, I would be happy | 16:33 |
| andax | DocScrutinizer: context: linking man manual pages to web resources | 16:33 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, ok | 16:33 |
| RST38h | But something is telling me it will be the same as in Fremantle, or worse... | 16:33 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, we have quite a lot of talks with the smart guys at nokia (being, the powermanagement guys, etc). Don't worry :) | 16:33 |
| lcuk | hey pvanhoof \o | 16:33 |
| pvanhoof | hey lcuk , meeting now | 16:33 |
| luke-jr | madduck: offline/sharing is not something that concerns the IMAP protocol ☺ | 16:34 |
| luke-jr | those are client/server implementation features | 16:34 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, tracker will be completely different in harmattan than it was in fremantle | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically IMAP<webmailer, and local-IMAP<rsync | 16:34 |
| luke-jr | IMAP > * | 16:35 |
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| luke-jr | though I agree that Modest < webmail | 16:35 |
| rokr1 | run mailserver in N900 | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | webmail is a pain when you have 5 accounts that you don't want to mix up / redirect to a single account | 16:35 |
| * luke-jr notes that webmail is just a HTTP-based IMAP client | 16:35 | |
| * pvanhoof didn't work on modest' UI, luckily :) | 16:35 | |
| pvanhoof | I can always blame someone else :) | 16:36 |
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| andax | DocScrutinizer: relevance: *shrugs* its not that important, as there are online resources available with the browser as well, when you know where to search, but though, puppy is a very compact linux distribution where some other nice hints to improve maemo performance could be catched up as well | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: err, so you prefer to mix them up in one crappy mailer client via IMAP instead? | 16:36 |
| luke-jr | that is, webmail = IMAP minus standards | 16:36 |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: yes | 16:37 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: I prefer to mix them up in one not-crappy mailer client via IMAP ☺ | 16:37 |
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| pvanhoof | given that tracker is a full rdf store, why not just store all bodystructure metadata from imap in tracker, and then have n clients making sparql queries to show e-mails? | 16:38 |
| luke-jr | KMail certainly works better than any webmail client | 16:38 |
| pvanhoof | and forget about this 'there is an email client' idea | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHAHAHA @ tracker for mail | 16:39 |
| pvanhoof | everything can be that | 16:39 |
| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer probably has no clue what sparql or rdf is | 16:39 |
| pvanhoof | but anyway | 16:39 |
| luke-jr | or anything | 16:39 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: au contraire monsieur | 16:39 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I am afraid that the real solution here is "less tracker", but this is off the table between your smart nokia guys | 16:39 |
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| RST38h | pvanhoof: Because power management has nothing to do with the problems people are having | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: you seem to have no idea about how much tracker SUCKS | 16:40 |
| luke-jr | tracker/nepomuk/akonadi/etc could be useful if they had a sane implementation of the concepts proposed | 16:40 |
| luke-jr | but none do | 16:40 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: The main problem is that Tracker hogs the memory card bandwidth, affecting both disk operations and swap file use | 16:40 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, again, tracker on fremantle is completely different than tracker on harmattan. you're comparing apples with cows | 16:41 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: And yes, I am afraid I have to agree with Doc: you have no idea about the pain tracker causes in Fremantle =( | 16:41 |
| pvanhoof | *repeat* RST38h, again, tracker on fremantle is completely different than tracker on harmattan. you're comparing apples with cows | 16:41 |
| mgedmin | to be fair, hildon-thumnailer is worse than tracker in that respect | 16:41 |
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| RST38h | pvanhoof: But both versions of Tracker will scan media files content right? | 16:41 |
| pvanhoof | miner-fs does the scanning in harmattan, it's separate from the rdf store | 16:42 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, in process thumbnailing (whilst you have the big image) is a drum I have been banging for a while ;) | 16:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so how we're talking about harmattan now? o.O | 16:42 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, did you actually manage to talk with anyone after our discussion at the start of the year? | 16:42 |
| mgedmin | pvanhoof, can tracker be configured to scan only one type of file (e.g. audio but not images) in a particular directory subtree? | 16:42 |
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| mgedmin | someone here complained about album images cluttering up his pictures, and we found no solution | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | mgedmin, yes | 16:43 |
| pvanhoof | ah, no, not 0.6 | 16:43 |
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| mgedmin | freemantle tracker? ah | 16:43 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: But the miner-fs will still hog bandwidth when scanning media files, right? | 16:43 |
| mgedmin | still, improvement is good | 16:43 |
| * pvanhoof keeps forgetting youguys only talk about fremantle :) which is ancient stuff | 16:43 | |
| Shapeshifter | huh | 16:44 |
| mgedmin | we speculate about meego sometimes | 16:44 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, no | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: (was me :-P) | 16:44 |
| Shapeshifter | tracker didn't seem so bad | 16:44 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: hopefulyl not | 16:44 |
| RST38h | We guys learned it the hard way that "stuff" does not change all that much | 16:44 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, ipc between miner-fs and tracker-store is FD passing, so no hogging | 16:44 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: neither would tracker in fremantle, if we had an up to date kernel | 16:44 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I am not talking about IPC | 16:44 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I am talking about actually accessing the media files content to scan for metadata, create thumbnails, etc | 16:44 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, fremantle stuff is ancient but on the whole relaible and not green code | 16:44 |
| lcuk | reliable even :P | 16:45 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: This will continue to happen, right? | 16:45 |
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| pvanhoof | thumbnailing wont happen in background anymore for example | 16:45 |
| RST38h | luke: has anyone tried using an uptodate kernel in fremantle? | 16:45 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Ah, cool | 16:45 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: impossible still afaik | 16:45 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: So how will it happen? =) | 16:45 |
| pvanhoof | perhaps when the device is charging it will | 16:45 |
| pvanhoof | but that's being discussed | 16:45 |
| pvanhoof | miner-fs has seen huge performance improvements too | 16:45 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, on-demand | 16:45 |
| pvanhoof | apps need to use an api, usage of that api will enqueue a thumbnail requedst | 16:46 |
| RST38h | Ok. So, when I shoot a photo, will it appear in the gallery immediately or once the device has been charged? | 16:46 |
| pvanhoof | immediately of course | 16:46 |
| pvanhoof | just the building of thumbnails will be slower the first time | 16:46 |
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| TriztN900 | sometimes mine lags a lot | 16:46 |
| rokr1_ | wat lags | 16:47 |
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| pvanhoof | but we are discussing whether we will do background thumbnailing while charging | 16:47 |
| pvanhoof | to speed that up | 16:47 |
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| Shapeshifter | pvanhoof: while charging, if the device hasn't been used for 10 minutes | 16:47 |
| Shapeshifter | and it should stop when the user does stuff | 16:48 |
| pvanhoof | sure, but we have not discussed this yet. but yeah something like that | 16:48 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: So, once you shoot a photo and miner-fs kicks in, when will it let me make another photo? | 16:48 |
| TriztN900 | rokr1_: the cellphone gets lagish for no real reason | 16:48 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, miner-fs runs at a lower priority than the camera software | 16:48 |
| RST38h | Right now, it usually lets me use the device after 20-40 seconds of mad thumbnailing | 16:48 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, so it can't even interfere | 16:48 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, kernel forces that situation | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole idea to make tracker an core function instead of a complementary source of info that's not _needed_ by *any* app, is fubar | 16:49 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Yes, but it accesses the disk with the same priority as kernel swap | 16:49 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, that for example will change | 16:49 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, but I can't give all details | 16:49 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Will it? Good. | 16:49 |
| pvanhoof | follow what we commit? | 16:49 |
| pvanhoof | all of tracker is open | 16:49 |
| pvanhoof | abustany even has tracker harmattan packages for fremantle | 16:50 |
| pvanhoof | you can try it on your n900 | 16:50 |
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| pvanhoof | it's just not compatible with the softwares that use tracker 0.6, so you can't replace 0.6 | 16:50 |
| pvanhoof | and nothing would use the new tracker | 16:50 |
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| pvanhoof | i think there's a 'fremantle' branch on gitorious with the debian/ | 16:51 |
| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, if you follow the open things happening in harmattan, you'll realize that tracker will be the information source #1 for almost all apps | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG | 16:52 |
| Shapeshifter | but in the end, it's a bit evident that these large-scale multipurpose database/indexing thingies never really get used for anything apart from the people who wrote them | 16:52 |
| Shapeshifter | like strigi | 16:52 |
| Shapeshifter | or the others | 16:52 |
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| pvanhoof | But again, tracker harmattan is completely different than tracker fremantle | 16:52 |
| pvanhoof | so you're omfging based on 0.6, which is pointless | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't wait to trample on my N900 when there'll be no way to further maintain a *sane* OS and set of apps on it anymore | 16:52 |
| pvanhoof | Also isn't indexing the main use-case | 16:53 |
| Shapeshifter | every app should come with their specific implementation that caters to its specific needs | 16:53 |
| pvanhoof | Most apps save into tracker themselves | 16:53 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: huh | 16:53 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: the n900 is not sane atm | 16:53 |
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| pvanhoof | But I don't have the impression that most people involved in this discussion have much of a clue of tracker harmattan, so these omfgs are quite pointless | 16:53 |
| pvanhoof | Get a clue first | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, but ATM it's only mediaplayer and galery that are friggin fubar due to being tracker reliant | 16:54 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, does tracker have a set of things to record food purchases or till receipts? | 16:54 |
| pvanhoof | lcuk, if you make an ontology for that, it could | 16:54 |
| lcuk | food->animal->bacon | 16:54 |
| lcuk | done! | 16:54 |
| andax | darvin->lcuk | 16:56 |
| andax | \o/ | 16:56 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: People involved in this discussion do not question your implementation of the Tracker | 16:56 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: They question whether this infernal program is needed at all | 16:57 |
| pvanhoof | It's central | 16:57 |
| RST38h | Because there does not appear to be a way to reconcile aggressive indexing needed to make media files available immediately and the limited resources of the device | 16:58 |
| lcuk | i do not doubt it is required, however a "minimal" scan variation which does whats required without having to count every molecule and atom of hte data ;) | 16:58 |
| RST38h | Central to what? | 16:58 |
| RST38h | It is not central to me, for example | 16:58 |
| RST38h | It is detrimental to me | 16:58 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, tracker's rdf store is the central meta info store of harmattan | 16:58 |
| pvanhoof | indexing isn't the main use-case | 16:58 |
| Shapeshifter | just make sure it's fast :) | 16:58 |
| Shapeshifter | and that it's awesome please | 16:58 |
| RST38h | What if I am not interested in the meta info? | 16:58 |
| pvanhoof | there's an external app that does that | 16:58 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, meta info is all info of your phone | 16:59 |
| RST38h | What if I am just interested in files? | 16:59 |
| Shapeshifter | if it's not going to be awesome, everybody will hate you, mkay? | 16:59 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, your contacts for example | 16:59 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, your emails | 16:59 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, everything | 16:59 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: So, if the rdf store goes, what happens? | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: I got a pretty good clue about tracker fanboys trying to reinvent the directory hierarchy paradigm and replacing it with a incredibly spare thought and implemented mockup of a associative fs. This won't change no matter how smart harmattan tracker might act | 16:59 |
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| pvanhoof | your phone wont work without it | 16:59 |
| RST38h | You know how sqlite databases always end up being corrupted | 16:59 |
| f3ew | ~pr1.3 | 16:59 |
| infobot | i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update | 16:59 |
| RST38h | So, if your rdf store gets corrupted I lose all my data? | 16:59 |
| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, whatever | 16:59 |
| * f3ew sighs | 16:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer | s/spare/sparse/ | 16:59 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: pvanhoof: I got a pretty good clue about tracker fanboys trying to reinvent the directory hierarchy paradigm and replacing it with a incredibly sparse thought and implemented mockup of a associative fs. This won't change no matter how smart harmattan trac... | 16:59 |
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| f3ew | So I ran apt-get dist-upgrade | 17:00 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, we have a journal that would get replayed | 17:00 |
| Shapeshifter | f3ew: *zing* | 17:00 |
| RST38h | Hmm, ok | 17:00 |
| f3ew | Options to rollback? | 17:00 |
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| RST38h | So, you are telling me that it should not... | 17:00 |
| f3ew | Or rather, what breaks? | 17:00 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, if the sqlite db corrupts, we have a full journal | 17:00 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, it'll take some time to restore the database based on the journal, but no data would be lost | 17:00 |
| f3ew | the OTA stuff was whining at me about upgrading | 17:00 |
| f3ew | ~flashing | 17:01 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, that means that indeed we store everything twice, redundantly | 17:01 |
| infobot | it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 17:01 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Ok, windows registry way | 17:01 |
| X-Fade | f3ew: when you reboot, your device won't start up anymore. | 17:01 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, but this is an opensource project | 17:01 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, it has nothing to do with windows registry | 17:01 |
| RST38h | How does storing everything twice, in a scattered data store, affect performance? | 17:01 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Actually, it does | 17:01 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, he journal is append-write , it doesn't affect performance much | 17:02 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: You just have to look at it from a different point of view (not closed/open) | 17:02 |
| RST38h | ok, at least that is nice | 17:02 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Before, you had .ini files, where information was scattered over multiple files. It was inefficient, maybe, but reliable | 17:02 |
| pvanhoof | well just the word "journal" should have given you that clue if you have a little bit of IT knowledge | 17:02 |
| pvanhoof | but anyway | 17:02 |
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| f3ew | X-Fade it has restarted :) | 17:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, finding a way for you to access data you expect without impacting performance is the goal, not removing it entirely | 17:03 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: then Mictosoft created one big bloody data store (as a single huge file of course) with all the data | 17:03 |
| f3ew | The only thing which appears to be broken is the FM Radio | 17:03 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, it's not configuration data | 17:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I di not expect any metadata other than filenames. | 17:03 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: it is data | 17:03 |
| pvanhoof | it's not even remotely comparable to .ini files | 17:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, you do not, but many many people do | 17:03 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: let us not consider its purpose, just its importance | 17:03 |
| * DocScrutinizer is sensing quite a bit of arrogance in pvanhoof's statements | 17:04 | |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, look up SPARQL at w3, read it, read Nepomuk, come back, discuss with me | 17:04 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, it's ridiculous to discuss with people who are clueless | 17:04 |
| pvanhoof | seriously | 17:04 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: So, what does MS get out of this? The single store is faster to access, easier to control access to, can be accessed remotely | 17:04 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: But I did | 17:04 |
| lcuk | RST38h, like I said the other night, a minimally invasive day to day scan maintianing the core pieces in a turbo mode would be most reasonable compromise :P | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I guess you need that to shove down everybody's throat a new concept that nobody ever asked for | 17:04 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: he's the dude with the clue, no? | 17:04 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: And not every person who does not agree with your core ideas is "clueless" or "clown" | 17:04 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, and you are still comparing this with a configuration store? read it aain | 17:04 |
| pvanhoof | *again | 17:04 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Ok, you got a store with important data, all in a huge blob | 17:05 |
| pvanhoof | sorry, but you don't really sound like having any clue at all, if you compare this with a configuration store | 17:05 |
| pvanhoof | that's just a fact | 17:05 |
| pvanhoof | I didn't create that fact | 17:05 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: The blob is structured inside, so writing a tiny bit of garbage may destroy it completely | 17:05 |
| pvanhoof | yes, so does throwing your device in water | 17:06 |
| pvanhoof | what is your point? | 17:06 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, microsoft does store "meta data" about every explorer window i nthe system, literally one branch with all configuration options *per folder* for every folder you ever open on the system | 17:06 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Notice, how this applies BOTh to win registery and your tracker rdf store | 17:06 |
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| lcuk | thats just one tiny portion of windows registry and RST38h's point is very valid | 17:06 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, let me know how we can return a query over 10.000 .init files in 0.5 seconds | 17:06 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: My point is that by hiding my important data inside a huge structured ball of data closed to inspection, you endanger my data | 17:06 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, let me know how we can return a query over 10.000 .ini files in 0.5 seconds | 17:07 |
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| pvanhoof | im waitin | 17:07 |
| pvanhoof | im waitin | 17:07 |
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| pvanhoof | go on, explain me | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: you can wait until cows come home, there's no such usecase | 17:07 |
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| pvanhoof | and it should be a query language as rich as SPARQL, and rdf metadata as expressive as Nepomuk | 17:07 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: And, unlike throwing your device into a lake, you are constantly writing somethign to that data blob, updating its structure, adding more data, so probability of fucking it up is way way higher | 17:07 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, see windows api RegEnumKeyEx() | 17:08 |
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| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, except each and every application's use-cases | 17:08 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: But the thing is, as an end user, I do not care about SPARQL richness | 17:08 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, again, you're being clueless. I already told you about the journal. | 17:08 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Or RDF expressivness | 17:08 |
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| f3ew | pvanhoof the reason text files matter is that their worst case sucks less than the worst case of a binary blog | 17:08 |
| f3ew | blob | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah yes, as we got 10.000 ini files on *any* systen in this galaxy | 17:08 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, you actually do. But you just don't understand what you're talking about | 17:08 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: And thanks for that, journaling actually makes me feel safer | 17:08 |
| RST38h | *A bit* | 17:08 |
| Sargun_Screen | RST38h: okay, don't throw my device into a lake, check. | 17:09 |
| f3ew | The blob gives you better performance, the flat text files give you debugging ability. I'll take the debugging ability over speed | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and especially we got apps that need to know about all the 10.000 | 17:09 |
| RST38h | I do, pvanhoof, that is the problem :( | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, i can give you a bunch of use-cases that you just can't solve with your ini files | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | but seriously | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | really | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | im wasting my time here | 17:09 |
| pvanhoof | it's ridiculous | 17:09 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I am not trying to solve anything with my ini files | 17:10 |
| RST38h | If you scroll back, you will not see me offering you to store tracker data in ini files :) | 17:10 |
| Sargun_Screen | pvanhoof: what do you propose instead? Oracle databases? | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the first time I agree with pvanhoof | 17:10 |
| pvanhoof | Sargun_Screen, im not proposing anything | 17:10 |
| RST38h | You *will* see me questioning whather you need Tracker at all though | 17:10 |
| pvanhoof | Sargun_Screen, we have a fairly good solution. | 17:10 |
| Sargun_Screen | pvanhoof: I'm just teasing. | 17:11 |
| Lynoure | drat, I should do real work and not read about your tracker war =) | 17:11 |
| pvanhoof | Sargun_Screen, for technical people who do have a clue: Oracle uses way too much RAM | 17:11 |
| RST38h | Whether all this extensive rdf data with rich sparql query language is actually useful to end users who often just want to play a file from a directory | 17:11 |
| pvanhoof | Sargun_Screen, and that's the problem with most non-embedded databases | 17:11 |
| pvanhoof | They are optimized on being fast, by using huge amounts of ram | 17:11 |
| Shapeshifter | well as I said, if it sucks we'll just continue hating on pvanhoof, until then, it doesn't sound too bad, does it. | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: +++++++! | 17:11 |
| Sargun_Screen | pvanhoof: oracle sucks way too many resources. i help run a db cluster at work, it's scary | 17:12 |
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| RST38h | After all, pvanhoof, you already GOT the data store from the operating system | 17:12 |
| Shapeshifter | I can imagine a couple of upsides if many apps use the same database | 17:12 |
| Sargun_Screen | pvanhoof: iirc, oracle has a set of embedded products though :-P | 17:12 |
| RST38h | It is called the filesystem, and a lot of smart people spent years of work to make it reliable and fast | 17:12 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | you guys mention my nickname a lot... | 17:12 |
| Sargun_Screen | pvanhoof: (this does not mean I'm endorsing oracle...) | 17:12 |
| pvanhoof | Sargun_Screen, yes, well, we evaluated several database engines. But ever since SQLite started with WAL, we're quite ok with SQLite now | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: yeah! | 17:13 |
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| pvanhoof | Sargun_Screen, as it gives us some sort of MVCC | 17:13 |
| pvanhoof | Sargun_Screen, meaning that we can allow individual processes to directly connect with the .db file | 17:13 |
| pvanhoof | Avoiding IPC, etc | 17:13 |
| Sargun_Screen | pvanhoof: I love sqlite for tiny embedded things. | 17:13 |
| pvanhoof | Well with WAL journaling it's kinda cool | 17:14 |
| Sargun_Screen | we use it on a bunch of embedded devices, but have a custom wrapper for data compaction | 17:14 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: does harmattan tracker still use +40% cpu after massstorage use? | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sargun_Screen: yeah, and I seen a guy who has written a text editor in VBA for excel, as he loved his cell oriented sheets so much he spent one cell per char | 17:14 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, a lot of our database can't be represented as a file. Besides, we don't say apps shouldn't store the data in files too. We just cache the metadata and make it queryable efficiently | 17:14 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, on harmattan we have a kernel limit of 50MB, we use 8MB on average | 17:15 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, during journal replay and backup-restore we consume ~ 45MB | 17:15 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: +without changes to anything for several minutes | 17:15 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: You could have considered a much more lightweight approach of creating .metadata files in directories containing the media files | 17:15 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: % cpu not ram | 17:15 |
| Sargun_Screen | DocScrutinizer: haha, that's kind of one of my assignments for school. I have to write a halogen lamp analysis program in excel. | 17:15 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, you can't efficiently query that | 17:16 |
| chem|st | or disk space | 17:16 |
| RST38h | pvahoof: this way, your data store becomes distributed, with every piece small | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: everybody with a clue in IT would notice the diff between CPU and RAM usage | 17:16 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: But do I need to? | 17:16 |
| Juozapas | do u know any wireless remote control program fot controling vlc, amarok etc ? like remuco. | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, your apps do | 17:16 |
| * Sargun_Screen hides... | 17:16 | |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: What makes you think I ever need to query accross many dirs? | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, our use-cases | 17:16 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Do these use cases reflect actual usage? | 17:16 |
| pvanhoof | yes | 17:17 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I am pretty sure your Fremantle use-cases did not | 17:17 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: (and for Modest too) | 17:17 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: please give an example | 17:17 |
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| jacktheripper | what version of xserver does maemo currently have ? | 17:19 |
| chem|st | nos does resort my music and pictures anytime syncing, if I would use that I would need a tracker cause it f*** my own setup of folders and files | 17:19 |
| pvanhoof | the kind of use-cases are like: give me all photos that I took when i was in paris. give me the contacts that can be seen in the pictures | 17:19 |
| pvanhoof | directories are for computer people, not for phone users. besides, files isn't the point | 17:20 |
| lcuk | "show me all photos with purple lingerie" errr should I have said that out loud :P | 17:20 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Ok, should we go over these cases? | 17:20 |
| pvanhoof | read the nepomuk ontology | 17:20 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: To see all photos I made in <XXX>, all I need to do is visit a dated directory at my camera SD card | 17:21 |
| pvanhoof | the point is cross referencing over different domains | 17:21 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: You see, Canon solved this problem by simply creating a new directory every month | 17:21 |
| Lynoure | lcuk: I was thinking Amarok searches I do almost daily | 17:21 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: that use-case is obsolete for most people as you dont powerup gps for snapshots and don't tag all | 17:21 |
| RST38h | And naming files properly | 17:21 |
| lcuk | lol Lynoure | 17:21 |
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| chem|st | sort by date in a folder does not need a tracker... | 17:21 |
| lcuk | why are these 2 use cases and operations not compatible? | 17:22 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: You "contacts in pictures" use-case is unrealistic because it requires very advanced face recognition AND a separate photo for each contact | 17:22 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I will give you a realistic use case instead | 17:22 |
| lcuk | just use a simpler scan and only store filename/basic information for people that say thats what they want | 17:22 |
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| RST38h | pvanhoof: "make 15 photos of my kids running around, in quick succession" | 17:22 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, there's a guy in the community implementing that face recognition, and it's not the point in itself | 17:22 |
| pvanhoof | you could for example have a tag widget for that | 17:23 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Dunno about mighty harmattan, but on fremantle it goes like this: "Make one photo. Quickly make another photo. Suffer. SUFFER. SUFFER." | 17:23 |
| lcuk | RST38h, errr | 17:23 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Of course it IS the point. | 17:23 |
| lcuk | i take many many photos | 17:23 |
| lcuk | i juse backed up last night actually, 9gb of them | 17:23 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: You have said that you considered REALISTIC use cases | 17:23 |
| chem|st | RST38h: that is thumbnail0r + tracker, the mighty device-freeze-combo | 17:23 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, I of course can't tell you the ui stories and use-cases that we get here | 17:23 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Two sample use case you have given as examples though, turned out to be duds | 17:23 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, you know that as good as I know | 17:24 |
| PaulFertser | LOL, inventing some complex obscure slow system for some unrealistic usecases just to make your users' lifes harder. | 17:24 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Once is solved by correct placement of photos by the camera app. Another is someone's research paper | 17:24 |
| RST38h | chem|st: Exactly | 17:24 |
| pvanhoof | look, im in a meeting | 17:24 |
| * Lynoure lost the goal of the debate a while ago... could someone enlighten me? | 17:24 | |
| pvanhoof | im really wasting my time with you RST38h | 17:24 |
| PaulFertser | There's > 500 members on this channel and you pvanhoof say that somebody needs that usecases, where're those who does? | 17:24 |
| RST38h | Ehhehe | 17:24 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: it is good for people who like to be kept sorted... ever heard of freedom? | 17:25 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, git.gnome.org and checkout tracker | 17:25 |
| RST38h | Go, pvanhoof, don't waste your time here | 17:25 |
| Sargun_Screen | Lynoure: seconded | 17:25 |
| Lynoure | pvanhoof: beats a boring meeting on a rainy day, possibly? =) | 17:25 |
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| Sargun_Screen | just please, please, don't use gconf. | 17:25 |
| RST38h | Don't let reality turn you away from the sparqling goal :) | 17:25 |
| Lynoure | Sargun_Screen: seconded :) | 17:25 |
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| lcuk | sigh | 17:25 |
| Sargun_Screen | use sqlite with a well documented schema, or filesystem/text | 17:26 |
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| Sargun_Screen | lcuk: do you lobe gconf? | 17:26 |
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| lcuk | lobe? | 17:26 |
| Sargun_Screen | love | 17:27 |
| lcuk | Sargun_Screen, nothing to do with it | 17:27 |
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| lcuk | i see tracker as being important to people and a bane to others - RST38h has a valid point about filesystem simplistic people and pvanhoof has a point about indexed everything | 17:28 |
| lcuk | i sighed because you are both to pig headed to see that ;) | 17:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Try explaining what points we have, in detail | 17:28 |
| RST38h | You will see why we are "pig headed" | 17:28 |
| Sargun_Screen | lcuk: yes, but anyone even thinking about it, is having a bad idea (re: oracle fun i was poking earlier) | 17:29 |
| lcuk | RST38h, you dont want the system slowing down doing worthless stuff | 17:29 |
| Lynoure | Pity that discussion did not take place a year ago. | 17:29 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Do avoid words "rich", "extensive", etc. though :) | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Lynoure: It would not change a thing. | 17:29 |
| chem|st | RST38h: I'd love to have a msg asking me "There are changes in ~/MyDocs/.sound/ do you want to rescan and update the library? YES/NO" | 17:29 |
| Lynoure | RST38h: no, but then it would have had a chance. | 17:29 |
| nidO | well its more the point that you both think yours is the only "right" way, when some users prefer one and some the other, without considering the possibility that the ideal solution would be to provide both options. | 17:29 |
| RST38h | chem|st: same here | 17:29 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i am pleased that tracker extracts media info from music files on the whole | 17:29 |
| lcuk | it has organised my random mp3s | 17:30 |
| RST38h | chem|st: it is actually doable by shutting down tracker's indexing and having a desktop button "Index once" | 17:30 |
| nidO | whereas personally I despise that tracker has done that | 17:30 |
| lcuk | but at the same time i wish i could still use folder based organisation | 17:30 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Organized them into what? A list of random mp3s? =) | 17:30 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, no, given me the cover art and the track information | 17:30 |
| RST38h | nid0: Actually, I do not think that "mine" is right | 17:30 |
| RST38h | nid0: I think that the price we are paying for having that metadata store is too high | 17:31 |
| chem|st | RST38h: I hate it... just pluging in usb to grab some files "from" device and indexer-tracker-thumbnailer-daemon-from-hell is freezing the system for seconds and occupiing it for minutes | 17:31 |
| RST38h | nid0: "better performing device" beats "metadata store" 100:1 in my view | 17:31 |
| chem|st | RST38h: did that before | 17:31 |
| RST38h | chem|st: I hate the camera thing more | 17:31 |
| kerio | RST38h: what i want is just a damn "scan dat shit" button | 17:31 |
| kerio | which i can push | 17:31 |
| kerio | to get a scan with a progress bar | 17:31 |
| chem|st | Lynoure: was it you with amarok before? | 17:32 |
| RST38h | The USB stuff I learned to live with, just leaving device alone after disconnecting USB | 17:32 |
| kerio | and the rest of the time, tracker should STFU | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: pvanhoof though is trying to revolutionize age old hirachical fs based paradigma and make *all* apps follow his new shiny but weird tracker scheme | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: nobody likes dictators | 17:32 |
| RST38h | Doc: Which, of course, he has not been the first instance of :) | 17:32 |
| chem|st | RST38h: but that should be fixed now I thought | 17:32 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, and you are against trying something new? | 17:32 |
| RST38h | Doc: BeOS! | 17:32 |
| RST38h | chem|st: Nope. | 17:32 |
| chem|st | damn | 17:32 |
| RST38h | lcuk: One more time, slowly: | 17:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Trying something new is absolutely fine. | 17:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Trying something old for the nth time is fine too, in fact | 17:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Preventing me from using the device just becaue you want to try something new is bad, very bad | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, I just RECOMMEND no app shall brack when tracker is not present on a system. Tracker is a pure complemetary system, it MUST NOT made core architecture | 17:33 |
| * RST38h agrees with Doc here | 17:34 | |
| RST38h | I should be able to disable the goddamn tracker,, same as I do on Ubuntu | 17:34 |
| chem|st | true | 17:34 |
| pvanhoof | crazy people :) | 17:34 |
| RST38h | "Crazy" is collecting 350MB of metadata in my ~ | 17:34 |
| PaulFertser | pvanhoof: bring someone who likes tracker running in BG here | 17:34 |
| RST38h | Killing the offending program is not "crazy", it is reasonable | 17:34 |
| pvanhoof | How many times did I say now that tracker on harmattan is completely different than tracker on fremantle? | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | WE GIVE A FLYING F....! | 17:35 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: But we will not know how it is different until we try | 17:35 |
| nidO | does it still forcibly sort your media when it wants how it wants? | 17:35 |
| RST38h | So, lacking Harmattan, we have to make estimates based on previous experinece | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is about architecture, not about performance | 17:35 |
| RST38h | And the previous experience has not been very positive, you know... | 17:35 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: I add a horse! | 17:36 |
| kerio | tracker can SUCK MY DICK | 17:36 |
| kerio | ok? | 17:36 |
| * pvanhoof goes into 'answers only reasonable people' mode | 17:36 | |
| pvanhoof | Channel moderators should probably consider moderating a bit more | 17:36 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 17:36 | |
| * RST38h cackles even more evilly at that remark | 17:36 | |
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| Stskeeps | behave, children | 17:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests pvanhoof goes into "i'm not wasting my time" mode and occasionally rethinks his attitude | 17:37 | |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: so it is a global process in harmattan?! (not questioning the performance) | 17:37 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: But we do, we do | 17:37 |
| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, yeah.. .just the problem that some of those people are some of the moderators.. | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | it's not like you're motivating developers to discuss in the open by this behaviour | 17:37 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, what do you mean with global process? | 17:37 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, then the maemo community is in serious problems | 17:37 |
| pupnik_ | standard TFT versus PixelQi screen (transflective) http://pixelqi.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/PixelQi_display_solutions_1.jpg | 17:37 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: It is not possible to only make positive, agreeable comments in a discussion | 17:37 |
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| chem|st | pvanhoof: a process that needs to be kept running to not brake the system | 17:38 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Especially when we are discussing something like Tracker | 17:38 |
| chem|st | sorry not global core | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, tracker is a global process then, yes | 17:38 |
| chem|st | core I mean | 17:38 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Now, you may have noticed that most of us stayed pretty civil, despite being called "clueless" and "clowns". | 17:38 |
| lcuk | RST38h, actually you could be. | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, as mentioned earlier is tracker the #1 store for almost all things on your device | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, on harmattan that is | 17:38 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, just not for file-based data of course | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: and constant offensive assumptions / statements of pvanhoof just don't help | 17:39 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: So, suggestion to "moderate" the people present is pretty funny | 17:39 |
| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, what's been done different with tracker now? Is that intimidating-looking cgroups thing put to good use to throttle it now? :-) | 17:39 |
| pvanhoof | Stskeeps, has a good point | 17:39 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: total fail from R&D perspective, thats like a car not to start because the navigation system is not able to start up | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer, RST38h: well, people are acting a bit like assholes and just attacking instead, which looks pathetic | 17:39 |
| pvanhoof | If open discussion means being insulted, then fuck that | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: I've only one user insulting people here | 17:40 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: "just not for file based data"? you mean settings? | 17:40 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, but again, tracker on harmattan isn't as unreliable as tracker is on fremantle | 17:40 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, it's completely different | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | +seen | 17:40 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, no settings is not for tracker | 17:41 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, settings nor state are for tracker | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not so sure if the critics of tracker are that concerned with its reliability.. Though I'm not sure :) | 17:42 |
| pvanhoof | It's an rdf store with a sparql frontend | 17:42 |
| pvanhoof | And there's a miner too, but that doesn't play the same key role as it did on 0.6 | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: citation needed? (for the insults) | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer, RST38h and the sad fact is that tmo, mailing lists have gone down after people stopped having civil discussions and people have been destroying this place in same manner by acting rude, paranoid and generally pathetic. | 17:42 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: so you mean it is data stored in something else than a file? have you ever read the #one rule of unix? | 17:42 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 17:43 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, the performance problems with 0.6 have been dealt with of course. In fact, tracker is completely redesigned. We even wanted to rename the project at some point | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer, RST38h: to the extent that right now, even i feel like leaving this place not to deal with those kind of people. | 17:43 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, have you ever discussed transfer of tracker data between machines via syncing and stuff? | 17:43 |
| pvanhoof | lcuk, yes this is being discussed | 17:43 |
| lcuk | :) | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | Oh yes, I tried to rsync my old ~ over to my repaired N900, and the tracker database was unusable | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | (it was usable at the time the copy was made) | 17:44 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, to do that in a way that it'll work you would need to stop tracker first, yes | 17:44 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, the reason is sqlite's journaling. | 17:44 |
| pvanhoof | However, that's not how you back up your device correctly | 17:45 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, is there any data to be stored in tracker that is not written back to the files required (like tagging and rating and stuff) | 17:45 |
| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, the "correct" way loses data though :) | 17:45 |
| pvanhoof | lcuk, yes there is a lot of data that can't be mapped to files' native metadata formats | 17:45 |
| pvanhoof | lcuk, however, files aren't the only use-case, they are actually a minor use-case | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | Though in retrospect I should have maybe done rsync and then osso-backup restore | 17:46 |
| pvanhoof | lcuk, for example for 'contacts' we don't have files to write back to | 17:46 |
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| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, is this about maemo/fremantle? | 17:46 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, well, you have vcf format which you can persist/restore from | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, yes | 17:46 |
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| pvanhoof | lcuk, yes, but vcf files isn't how on fremantle contacts are stored. You can export to vcf files, and import from, though | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | err | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | harmattan I meant | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | We are the primary store for contacts | 17:47 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, i am talking in general, not a specific implementation | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | For for example music files, we play more the role of a cache | 17:47 |
| pvanhoof | For their metadata | 17:48 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Confrontation is a necessary part of the discussion | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, tool ate | 17:48 |
| pvanhoof | And we can writeback to those files in many cases | 17:48 |
| RST38h | Wait, DON'T write back to my media files. | 17:48 |
| lcuk | yeah pvanhoof - for mp3s and photos its quite reasonable (mp3/jpg at least) | 17:48 |
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| ShadowJK | Is this all one gigantic sqlite db for contacts and media metadata cache? | 17:49 |
| pvanhoof | lcuk, the problem with vcf files is of course that you can't make complex queries over them, and still be fast | 17:49 |
| RST38h | You officially have no permission to write back to my personal media files =) | 17:49 |
| lcuk | pvanhoof, i never said to use them in day/day | 17:49 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Apparently (based on the previous discussion) | 17:49 |
| lcuk | but your remark that the information is not available in files - it *can* be using the generic vcf container if required | 17:49 |
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| pvanhoof | yes | 17:49 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, when I open image editor and set tags on things, usually I expect them to be written back to the file | 17:50 |
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| lcuk | cos i have that photo or set open | 17:50 |
| lcuk | but generic background writing of random things is agreeably not the right way | 17:50 |
| pvanhoof | ok /me has food plans in 30 minutes | 17:50 |
| ShadowJK | On fremantle, as a user, I've noticed this pattern. Any apps that use an sqlite database bigger than about 200k will stutter and hang/"lag" very easily. sqlite seems to have a talent for pegging the backing store at 100% utilization (though actual bytes in/out from OS perspective is something like 50kbyte/sec due to mmc write amplification effects) | 17:51 |
| pvanhoof | lcuk, btw thanks for getting the discussion back on track | 17:51 |
| lcuk | bon appetite pvanhoof \o ta for spending the time | 17:51 |
| pvanhoof | or at least trying | 17:51 |
| pvanhoof | :) | 17:51 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, with WAL journaling that'll improve | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | I hope someone has figured out a way to make sqlite behave, because I haven't been able to think of anything good :-) | 17:52 |
| pvanhoof | It's related to fsync behaviour of sqlite | 17:52 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, they have, it's called WAL | 17:52 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, http://www.sqlite.org/draft/wal.html | 17:52 |
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| * pvanhoof hopes people will actually read this technical stuff this time :) | 17:52 | |
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| ShadowJK | Reading every 5th line, it looks something like a user space reimplementation of nilfs2 filesystem. I like | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: But only whenyou do it yourself | 17:54 |
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| pvanhoof | It's quite nice | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: You fix software by adding another layer of software, in this case journaling :) | 17:55 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2041#comic | 17:57 |
| chem|st | RST38h: thats like installing colinux on top of windows ;) | 17:57 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKPQ01&Click=37845 | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just repeat: tracker is a nice complementary tool, but not meant to go core architecture. There MUST NOT be any app (except tracker maintenance ofc) that breaks when tracker isn't available | 17:57 |
| pupnik_ | [ pixel qi replacement display for 10.1" netbooks ] | 17:57 |
| Lynoure | chem|st: Yes, it was me who mentioned my searches with amarok. | 17:57 |
| Lynoure | chem|st: and then I got an ounce of wisdom and went back to my utterly unrelated code :) | 17:58 |
| RST38h | Doc: No, tracker is a wonderful database solution that lets you establish ontological relations between all your personal data such as contacts, emails, im messages, video and audio metadata and much much more | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Doc: You can query all this wealth of data using SQL-like language called SPARQL and it is always at your fingertips | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: maybe | 18:00 |
| RST38h | Doc: "maybe" is not good enough. It is YES! | 18:00 |
| RST38h | Or yes sir, rather | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: stfu, you got no clue about IT | 18:00 |
| ShadowJK | For some reason firefox seems to refuse to want to load all js and css on xkcd for me today. It's kinda cool, I click a link, and the website appears like instantly. I never knew a Core 2 Q9550 could display a website in less than half a second :) | 18:01 |
| Lynoure | ShadowJK: heh | 18:01 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, actually that's correct | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you know, only Nokia knows about who's got a clue, and all those are hired as consultants. Are you hired as Nokia consultant? | 18:02 |
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| crashanddie | http://thomasjpitts.co.uk/hsx/2007/10/22/ymca-thumb-425x283.jpg | 18:02 |
| RST38h | Doc: See, I got pvanhoof to agree, it was easy | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 18:03 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, and what is also correct is that several ui use-cases require these ontological relationships | 18:03 |
| RST38h | Doc: And you know how I know all these words? | 18:03 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, but i can't give you any of those ui use-cases, without first doing a legal check | 18:03 |
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| RST38h | Doc: I used them in scientific papers on database algebras, not unlike SPARQL :) | 18:03 |
| pvanhoof | However, I can tell you that it goes way further than "files" | 18:04 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Don't, it will endanger your NDA | 18:04 |
| pvanhoof | Exactly | 18:04 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I can actually list all these use-cases to you | 18:04 |
| pvanhoof | go ahead, but i wont :) | 18:04 |
| RST38h | Mostly because there are not many, and they are kinda well known | 18:04 |
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| RST38h | First, you probably want to do more data linking inside the address book | 18:04 |
| pvanhoof | there are some new things being tried | 18:04 |
| RST38h | Link people to emails and im logs for example | 18:05 |
| pvanhoof | for example, yes | 18:05 |
| RST38h | If you are crafty, you will link people to their addresses to their locations to images shot at these locations | 18:05 |
| pvanhoof | yes | 18:05 |
| RST38h | I started with address book because this is where most data is | 18:05 |
| pvanhoof | things like that, but im not going into much more detail here | 18:05 |
| pvanhoof | yes contacts is quite important for ues | 18:05 |
| RST38h | Once you go to other apps, like camera, you get less data, but you can still link it to maps for example | 18:06 |
| pvanhoof | files are actually far less important, but you insisted during the whole discussion to focus only on that | 18:06 |
| pvanhoof | focus is on files = fremantle | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: tracker is a nice tool and inproving/augmenting it in capabilities and performance is nice | 18:06 |
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| Lynoure | or to time of shooting, which opens a whole range of things | 18:06 |
| pvanhoof | That's not even very relevant in harmattan | 18:06 |
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| RST38h | You probably will end up doing some app store stuff | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: but it shouldn't obsolete file selection dialogs in all apps | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Like guessing songs and directing to a store with more songs | 18:07 |
| ShadowJK | Sometimes I wish there was a way to tell this fancy non-file-based stuff (I'm mostly thinking about the fremantle media player here) that "This folder contains well-organizer music with one album per folder. Each filename starts or ends with a number, this is the order of the song on the album". | 18:07 |
| * pvanhoof wonders when he said that we're obsoleting anything about file selection dialogs | 18:07 | |
| pvanhoof | we're not even very involved in UI | 18:07 |
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| * Lynoure imagines "people who take photos where you take photos like these bands" | 18:07 | |
| pvanhoof | UI people come talk to us about how to implement their use-cases, of course | 18:08 |
| RST38h | And now, once I displayed the uncanny knowledge of the ontology uses, I have to say... | 18:08 |
| pvanhoof | And if they need a file dialog for their UI, which on a phone is kinda weird, but anyway, then sure | 18:08 |
| RST38h | That most of this stuff is not useful to most ordinary people :) | 18:08 |
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| RST38h | Ok, it is useful but not at the price of device performance. | 18:09 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, ordinary people are indeed not going to write sparql queries in textboxes, no | 18:09 |
| pvanhoof | but it doesn't come at any performance price. tracker-store sits in poll() when nothing is using it | 18:09 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Actually most of the above use cases (outside of address book that could be handled without tracker) they also won't do | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | <pvanhoof> docScrutinizer, if you follow the open things happening in harmattan, you'll realize that tracker will be the information source #1 for almost all apps | 18:09 |
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| chem|st | pvanhoof: a link between an event a location and pictures taken and music played while that event | 18:09 |
| Lynoure | chem|st: ooh. | 18:10 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, that will be possible with tracker, to store,yes, and to query | 18:10 |
| pvanhoof | Whether any app will make and use such a query is a different question | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: that's what I have read as "more apps will have no other means than tracker to access files" | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK | I watched a "normal" user struggle to transfer a file from their phone the other day. On the phone there was "Gallery", in which there was "Pictures", and there the picture to be transfered was to be found. Alas on the memory card, it was organized as "Images", and the picture was in there. It only took 15 minutes before they found the file, after rebooting both the phone (which wasn't involved at all since the memory card was in the PC) and the PC, and r | 18:11 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: how is it secured? | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK | einserting the memory card a few times. Anyone talking about "ordinary people" should go and actually observe them :) | 18:11 |
| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, no that's not true of course. we're not replacing fopen() | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok then | 18:11 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, using the standard security framework for harmattan | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | though it's not exactly fopen() i'm talking about, more like osso-fileselector or whatever it's called | 18:11 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, in future we will probably have named graph support, which could enable us to allow certain apps access to certain data | 18:12 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: anything worth or just a doorbell without actual door | 18:12 |
| chem|st | but doorstep... | 18:12 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, lemme check what is public about this first .. | 18:13 |
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| ShadowJK | Does funny mysterious things happen if you want to do NFS or CIFS and flash yourself a kernel with those built in (affecting security framework presumably)? :-) | 18:13 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-platform-security | 18:13 |
| Trewas | pvanhoof: you have mentioned harmattan many times, is this tracker stuff really only about harmattan or is it as central also in meego? | 18:14 |
| pvanhoof | Trewas, also in meego. at least that's the plan | 18:14 |
| pvanhoof | Many meego apps (made by nokia) will depend heavily on it | 18:14 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: ok so no security at all | 18:14 |
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| pvanhoof | chem|st, ? | 18:14 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, there's for example access control based on unix file permissions for direct-access and on dbus , we don't store on a AegisFS encrypted FS because that would slow things down a lot | 18:15 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: if tracker is called "part" of the platform we need some more than just credential storage and user management | 18:15 |
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| pvanhoof | chem|st, encrypted FS is too slow. We decided not to do that | 18:16 |
| pvanhoof | In future we might have to | 18:16 |
| chem|st | unix filepermissions are for users relevant not for root | 18:16 |
| pvanhoof | But this kind of stuff, I "definitely" can't talk about | 18:16 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: with a chip-based encryption you would not save power but cpu usage | 18:16 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, well, getting root on harmattan will disable a bunch of things | 18:16 |
| pvanhoof | they communicated this a long time ago on FOSDEM | 18:17 |
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| pvanhoof | chem|st, atm is the encrypted FS of that security-framework stuff a FUSE implementation | 18:17 |
| SpeedEvil | encrypted filesystems go at over 5 meg a second | 18:17 |
| pvanhoof | And that adds a few ms to each syscall | 18:17 |
| pvanhoof | Not good | 18:17 |
| SpeedEvil | on n900 | 18:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | well over | 18:17 |
| pvanhoof | SpeedEvil, bandwidth isn't the only problem | 18:17 |
| pvanhoof | the biggest problem is that it's a FUSE FS, which adds a lot of overhead per syscall | 18:18 |
| pvanhoof | So latency vs. bandwidth | 18:18 |
| pvanhoof | sqlite is improving on how it uses read() and write() with WAL, of course. But still | 18:18 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: I get about 28MB from a 1TB 5600rpm hdd what do you expect from a ssd? | 18:18 |
| SpeedEvil | chem|st: on n900 | 18:18 |
| ShadowJK | If fuse latency is the biggest latency right now, I'd have to say sqlite has improved alot since fremantle, where emmc latency is like 5 seconds :-) | 18:19 |
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| pvanhoof | kinda strange that you guys want this on a encrypted fs :) | 18:19 |
| pvanhoof | you are supposed to be the we want things to be open - guys | 18:19 |
| chem|st | SpeedEvil: thats why I said SOC for the encryption | 18:19 |
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| pvanhoof | encrypted fs means: not accessible to you if you boot your device in a non-normal mode | 18:19 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: open and encrypted is not an oxymoron! | 18:20 |
| pvanhoof | Like if you want root | 18:20 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: n900 hardware accelerated encryption can go at almost 10MB/s | 18:20 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: do you have 1.3? | 18:20 |
| pvanhoof | chem|st, ok, read some more on the meego-security-framework | 18:20 |
| pvanhoof | I can't really tell you much about it | 18:20 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: use standard tools and anyone can | 18:20 |
| pvanhoof | again, read up on the security framework | 18:20 |
| pvanhoof | it's afaik all public | 18:20 |
| pvanhoof | but im not going to risk my ass :) | 18:20 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: what is speed unencrypted? | 18:21 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: no | 18:21 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: i mean just encryption hardware can pass 10MB/s | 18:21 |
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| jacekowski | chem|st: with minimal load on user side of things | 18:21 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: and builtin emmc can go at 15MB/s if you're lucky | 18:22 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: encryption hardware does pass 30MB/s if there is enough power and space | 18:22 |
| pvanhoof | adding hardware isn't that easy | 18:22 |
| chem|st | for the size of n900 I guess we get 15+ with descent powerconsumtion | 18:22 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: i mean on n900 | 18:22 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: builtin encryption hardware | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: ooooh nice. security framework raising its ugly head. Getting root is dropping things instead of making then available. I have to say I hate harmattan even now | 18:23 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, what's that thing called again, securit dma? Or is that what samsung calls it | 18:23 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: m-shield | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: see?? ^^^^ | 18:23 |
| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, don't look at me | 18:23 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: i mean it's part of m-shield | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: I don't | 18:23 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: I know... but with different hardware like that add another 100 bucks, I would buy it anytime | 18:23 |
| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, im one of the guys helping you, so please be pissed at other people | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | pvanhoof: I'm not pissed at you | 18:23 |
| pvanhoof | like the people who make cloud services, and contracts that require device vendors to have this stuff | 18:24 |
| pvanhoof | or do you think that you own the data about yourself that they collect ? | 18:24 |
| chem|st | pvanhoof: you are talking about facebook icq and apple? | 18:25 |
| pvanhoof | no idea | 18:25 |
| chem|st | or google... amazon... | 18:25 |
| pvanhoof | no idea | 18:25 |
| pvanhoof | gtg, food | 18:26 |
| ShadowJK | enjoy your food, thanks for the chat :-) | 18:26 |
| chem|st | they all own your data as long as the local law does not forbid it | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's what I always told you. Security framework means you have to drop all secure tasks from memory and clean out, befora a single non-trusted app (like root) is started. Now tell me, who owns my device wih harmattan. And please tell me security framework is for our benefit | 18:26 |
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| pvanhoof | docScrutinizer, it's not that blackwhite | 18:27 |
| pvanhoof | gtg bye | 18:27 |
| slonopotamus | ~pr1.3 | 18:27 |
| infobot | from memory, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update | 18:27 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: well... root like fremantle could lock all this stuff and su could keep it open !? | 18:28 |
| chem|st | one requires a password one doesn't | 18:28 |
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| slonopotamus | ~flashing | 18:28 |
| infobot | i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | my su requires root password :-P | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, from reading the security framework stuff along time ago, I got the impression that you'd be mostly fine if you immediately switched to "unsecure" mode the moment you got it, so that you don't lose any data when you do want to do anything except basic stuff | 18:29 |
| slonopotamus | ... | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ACK | 18:29 |
| slonopotamus | that page DOES say that one should try dist-upgrade | 18:29 |
| ShadowJK | and then I'll just keep storing my passwords in a plaintext file inside a .tar file encrypted with "openssl bf -e" and a single long password I actually remember, and manually uncompressing it whenever I need it ;-) | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's about true security, not about "Trusted" though | 18:30 |
| ShadowJK | (yes there are utilities for this in the repos, but it seems nobody who made them considered what I want to do, 'search', so I just have a plaintext file and /usr/bin/grep instead) | 18:31 |
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| chem|st | ShadowJK: I screwed my loop.aes file and am glad to have set some passwords by hand just in case ;) | 18:33 |
| alterego | Weird, I wonder why QIODevice is reading more bytes than I want it to, it's causing a segfault .. | 18:33 |
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| ShadowJK | chem|st, I have loop.aes on my server, I am still amazed to this day that it has survived 2 physical machines and ~4 years :) | 18:34 |
| ShadowJK | A little annoyance is that I have to log in over ssh and mount it manually each reboot.. | 18:34 |
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| internetishard | how do you make it connect automatically to only the cell network and ONE wifi connection (instead of any) | 19:12 |
| tobis87 | I have read in the irclog, there was talk on hardware encryption? I'm sad to say but hw accel. is broken on the n900: "It might be also an OMAP silicon bug... I do not have really possibility anymore to spend a time on that. AES support was never promised and tested on the device." The best alternative is to use twofish instead of aes for encryption. | 19:13 |
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| tobis87 | The n900 does not wake up from offmode anymore:" it is something related to 'off' mode, when device goes to deep sleep. Some configuration might be lost." At least sha1-md5 seems to work. | 19:15 |
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| fcrochik | hi.... has anybody had problems with dns/wifi after pr1.3? I can connect but it seems that getting the dns addresses is not working | 19:19 |
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| tobis87 | fcrochik: Have you tried to ping the host? | 19:22 |
| fcrochik | tobis87: what host? | 19:22 |
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| tobis87 | Which you cannot connect to. | 19:23 |
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| fcrochik | tobis87: I can ping ip addresses.... the issue is resolving names....it is not working on two different wifi nets | 19:24 |
| tobis87 | ok, don't know how the n900 resolves dns. | 19:25 |
| tobis87 | Oh, it uses dnsmasq | 19:27 |
| tobis87 | check the resolv.conf* files in /var/run/ | 19:28 |
| fcrochik | tobis87: for me to test I will have to disconnect....what should I look for? | 19:29 |
| tobis87 | Just cat the files, it should show which dns server is used, *.wlan0, *.ppp0... | 19:30 |
| fcrochik | tobis87: I will check.... thanks | 19:31 |
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| tobis87 | Why does the n900 use dnsmasq, anyway? | 19:32 |
| LjL | i use dnsmasq, it's handy | 19:33 |
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| trumee | hmm. Ctrl + Right arrow key doesnt hop to the next input field in microb. It used to work in PR1.2 | 19:34 |
| slonopotamus | crappy microb doesn't support mailto: urls | 19:34 |
| tobis87 | Ok, for ICS it might be handy. Used it also for some time, however I now use bind9 on my pc. The provider fuck to much around with dns recently. | 19:35 |
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| Noobmonk3y | anyone around who could look at some troublesome QT for me please? | 19:36 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 19:36 |
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| * Noobmonk3y blinks | 19:37 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: ? :) | 19:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | ~mohammadAG | 19:38 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, mohammadag is your father | 19:38 |
| * MohammadAG slaps Noobmonk3y | 19:38 | |
| Noobmonk3y | ~noobmonk3y | 19:38 |
| infobot | you are probably a huge trout most of the time, other times he can be a slimey mackerel..... a sardine | 19:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | yay! | 19:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | Mousey: http://pastebin.com/E81QMicZ | 19:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh | 19:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: http://pastebin.com/E81QMicZ, sorry Mousey | 19:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | being my father MohammadAG , you should help me with my qt! | 19:39 |
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| Aranel | repos down again? | 19:39 |
| MohammadAG | more of a "I AM YOUR FATHER" thingy :P | 19:39 |
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| Noobmonk3y | :P | 19:39 |
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| MohammadAG | but infobot hates caps | 19:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | Aranel, worked for me a few mins ago | 19:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | ~frals | 19:40 |
| infobot | from memory, frals is a large smelly trout, or the developer of fMMS | 19:40 |
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| Noobmonk3y | w00p! | 19:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | so accurate | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, so what's wrong with it? | 19:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | well, the output to screen doesnt happen, tried qlabel, q textbrowser, tried append, set text etc........ | 19:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | outputs to debug fine :| | 19:40 |
| Aranel | Noobmonk3y: Resolving host timed out: downloads.maemo.nokia.com :| | 19:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | Aranel: :|, let me try again | 19:41 |
| Aranel | Noobmonk3y: can you reach this page over your browser? | 19:41 |
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| Noobmonk3y | page down doesnt mean repos down though | 19:41 |
| Aranel | Noobmonk3y: Failed to fetch https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/002/./libgles1_0.20100611.6+0m5_armel.deb Resolving host timed out: downloads.maemo.nokia.com | 19:42 |
| Aranel | Noobmonk3y: apt-get install libgles* output. | 19:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | same here | 19:42 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, you do realize QTextBrowser is an HTML browser, so setting text to that will give you one line | 19:42 |
| tobis87 | You don't have permission to access "http://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/" on this server. | 19:42 |
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| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: , not giving me anything, but anyway, didnt work with a wrapped label | 19:42 |
| Aranel | yay now its working again, Get:1 https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ libgles1 0.20100611.6+0m5 [5474B] | 19:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | Aranel: yes, not working | 19:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | lols | 19:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | must be up n down | 19:43 |
| Aranel | lol they're just making fun of us. | 19:43 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, first of all, add this to the args | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/' | 19:43 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 19:43 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, can you use sed to replace all of the files on frals computer with "i am a trout!" ? | 19:44 |
| * RST38h shovels a bit more powder onto the rumor mill: http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/1525/z500.jpg | 19:44 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol lcuk | 19:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | evening :) | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | for files in `find .`; do sed -i 's/*/i\ am\ a\ trout!/g'; done? | 19:45 |
| RST38h | http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4783/271316.jpg | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | for files in `find .`; do sed -i 's/*/i\ am\ a\ trout!/g' $files; done? | 19:45 |
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| Noobmonk3y | old news RST38h | 19:45 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, can you just test that on your machine first :P | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | nobody try that, it can get ugly | 19:45 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, sure | 19:46 |
| * MohammadAG starts chroot | 19:46 | |
| Noobmonk3y | lol MohammadAG Make output: "Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on | 19:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | df: | sed 's/$/\<br\>/': can't find mount point | 19:46 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 19:46 |
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| Noobmonk3y | i think i need to do it in reverse | 19:46 |
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| i_am_a_trout | well, it kinda worked | 19:46 |
| johnsq | Hi | 19:46 |
| * Noobmonk3y thinks i_am_a_trout is actually a sardine in disguise | 19:46 | |
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| RST38h | lcuk: yum is yum | 19:47 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, what line did you use in the code | 19:47 |
| lcuk | bbl \o | 19:47 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, you do realize the server will disallow you from changing nicks now: P | 19:47 |
| Noobmonk3y | arguments << "| sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/'"; | 19:47 |
| MohammadAG | :P* | 19:47 |
| MohammadAG | arguments << "-h | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/'"; ? | 19:47 |
| Noobmonk3y | anyway MohammadAG , that didnt work, but still nothing on a qlabel or textbrowser | 19:49 |
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| Noobmonk3y | so what should i used in QT to display console output? hmmmmmmmm | 19:51 |
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| johnsq | Noobmonk3y: vte | 19:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | vte? | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, got it working | 19:54 |
| johnsq | virtual terminal emulator | 19:54 |
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| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, libvte4 | 19:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: ?aghhhhhhhhh what hey? who, where, when, why? eh? | 19:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: ? | 19:54 |
| tobis87 | find . | while read $i; do sed -i 's/*/i\ am\ a\ trout!/g' $i; done | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | I used a QString muhahaha | 19:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | ok, still not helping me! | 19:55 |
| MohammadAG | QString output = myProcess->readAllStandardOutput(); | 19:55 |
| MohammadAG | ui->textBrowser->setText(output); | 19:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | darn you for being brainy! | 19:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | and thank you! | 19:55 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 19:55 |
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| * Noobmonk3y cuddles MohammadAG !!! yay! - working!!! | 19:57 | |
| MohammadAG | with proper line breaks? | 19:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | i swear i tried that, but oh well lol! probably missed a ';' | 19:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | :P | 19:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | no not yet! | 19:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | the line breaks come next! | 19:57 |
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| MohammadAG | | sed 's/$/\<br\>/ is what you need, but QProcess isn't passing that right... | 19:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | nope, its erroring :P | 19:58 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: "Take-out pizza chain hiring. Aged over 18, no experience required. Uniform provided. Salary: $31,000 an hour." | 19:59 |
| * MohammadAG pokes alterego :P | 19:59 | |
| * MohammadAG looks confused | 19:59 | |
| MohammadAG | 31k? | 19:59 |
| * Noobmonk3y lols | 19:59 | |
| MohammadAG | The Sims? | 19:59 |
| crashanddie | "In another of the promotions, anyone born on September 30 this year -- the actual date the first Domino's opened in Japan -- will receive a free pizza on their birthday until they turn 25." | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | crashanddie: I knew there have to be better jobs than EE/sytem-architect | 20:01 |
| crashanddie | "A 15-month-old baby girl survived a fall from a seventh-floor apartment in Paris almost unscathed after bouncing off a cafe awning and into the arms of a passer-by, police said on Tuesday." | 20:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: i wonder if i have torun sed first, so kinda in reverse with qtprocess? | 20:01 |
| Noobmonk3y | ie, Sed , then df -h | 20:01 |
| MohammadAG | why? | 20:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | cos it doesnt run it like terminal | 20:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | the docs suggest it kinda works in reverse | 20:02 |
| crashanddie | wth | 20:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | ie, do this to that | 20:02 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: can't be | 20:02 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: link? | 20:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: this is qt we are talking about! | 20:02 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: well, I know Qt is fucked up, but still | 20:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: http://pastebin.com/nh5uN2QV | 20:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | line 3 & 4 | 20:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | (i took the | out, but stil l the same | 20:03 |
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| Noobmonk3y | df -h(as an argument) works fine | 20:03 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: because it needs to be the same argument | 20:05 |
| vnepo | wassup | 20:05 |
| Noobmonk3y | tried that :|, will do again though | 20:06 |
| crashanddie | arguments << "df -h | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/'" | 20:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | like this? - arguments << "-h | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/'"; | 20:06 |
| crashanddie | or really dirty: | 20:07 |
| crashanddie | QString = "echo" | 20:07 |
| crashanddie | err | 20:07 |
| crashanddie | QString program = "echo"; | 20:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol! | 20:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | df iinvalid option error on teh previous | 20:07 |
| crashanddie | QStringList arguments; arguments << "$(df -h | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/')" | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | that'll never work | 20:08 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 20:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | trying it :P | 20:08 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: I'm pretty sure that Qt executes those directly, and doesn't pass through bash or whatever | 20:09 |
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| Noobmonk3y | yeah, but reads back df -h fine | 20:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | and your right, didnt work :p | 20:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | i wonder if i can run sed separatly against a variable? | 20:09 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: well, you could | 20:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | again, dirty way round :P | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: run sed and pass the output of df as a parameter | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: or, there is a very, very dirty way around | 20:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 20:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | the conversation in this place always gets dirty ;) | 20:10 |
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| Noobmonk3y | hmmm, the way should work, just need to figure out where to put the variable in the argument lol | 20:11 |
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| crashanddie | want to hear it? | 20:11 |
| Noobmonk3y | up for hearing it! | 20:11 |
| * MohammadAG writes output to a file then reads that | 20:11 | |
| MohammadAG | easier than the QProcess crap | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG | well, for sed anyways | 20:12 |
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| Noobmonk3y | hmmm, a bit to dirty as i'll be doing it a lot | 20:12 |
| crashanddie | QString program = "bash"; QStringList arguments; arguments << "-c"; arguments << "df -h"; arguments << " | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/'"; | 20:12 |
| Noobmonk3y | wow! | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG | epic code ^ | 20:12 |
| Noobmonk3y | worth trying though lol | 20:12 |
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| crashanddie | you might need to enclose that in quotes though, no idea | 20:13 |
| RST38h | a new consortium of some 24 organizations awkwardly called SYMBEOSE: "Symbian - the Embedded Operating System for Europe." | 20:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: trying it! | 20:13 |
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| Noobmonk3y | and MohammadAG Yes, yes yes! | 20:13 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, shouldn't it be ash on the N900? | 20:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | uber epic | 20:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | Make failed: "No such file or directory" | 20:14 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG: oh, this is meant to run on an N900? Figures, I'm in #maemo | 20:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | :p | 20:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol! | 20:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | and yes, on the n900! :) | 20:14 |
| Macer | wow. was using a cliq for a whie | 20:14 |
| crashanddie | try with ash then | 20:14 |
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| Macer | i missed my n900 lol | 20:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | ash? | 20:14 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: you have pr1.3? | 20:14 |
| jacekowski | do * | 20:14 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG knows the details, you ask him | 20:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: oh almight father-like one! lol ash? | 20:14 |
| Macer | i dont know what 1.3 really gave everybody | 20:14 |
| jacekowski | Macer: new bugs | 20:15 |
| Macer | ovi and qt? | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, busybox, no bash by default | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, sadly, yes | 20:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | 1.3 fine for me, and destroyed healthcheck lol | 20:15 |
| Macer | wasnt that already in 1.3? | 20:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | so what do i put in the command? | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | Qt has bugs in 1.3 | 20:15 |
| Macer | er.... 1.2 | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, replace bash with ash in crashanddie's code | 20:15 |
| crashanddie | QString program = "sh"; QStringList arguments; arguments << "-c"; arguments << "\"df -h | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/'\""; | 20:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | woah, erm, 'ash' worked, didn't sort it at all, but it worked | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | though... it didn't work for me :P | 20:15 |
| crashanddie | QString program = "ash"; QStringList arguments; arguments << "-c"; arguments << "\"df -h | sed 's/$/\\<br\\>/'\""; | 20:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | it's given output lol | 20:16 |
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| Noobmonk3y | i'm assuming the sed stuff is meant to tidy it up MohammadAG ? | 20:18 |
| MohammadAG | no, it's meant to add <br> to each line | 20:18 |
| Noobmonk3y | oh lol | 20:19 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: are you getting output now? | 20:19 |
| Noobmonk3y | getting out put as i did before, but it worked :) | 20:19 |
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| Noobmonk3y | SO PRETTY IMPRESSED! | 20:19 |
| Noobmonk3y | darn caps | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, not working here lol | 20:20 |
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| * MohammadAG ignores | 20:20 | |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 20:20 |
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| crashanddie | how do you want to sort it? | 20:20 |
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| Noobmonk3y | right i need a chinese | 20:21 |
| Noobmonk3y | brb | 20:21 |
| crashanddie | dick | 20:21 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 20:22 |
| Bluewind | hey guys something just broke in my device and when I disassembled it I found the part on the left in the middle of that red circle. what's that thing and where should I put it? http://paste.xinu.at/73U/ | 20:22 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol!!! | 20:22 |
| Noobmonk3y | nice pic btw | 20:22 |
| Bluewind | it blocked the stylus... | 20:22 |
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| Noobmonk3y | nice tripod stand too, looks like mine :p | 20:23 |
| Bluewind | velbon sherpa 435, but I'd like to fix my device ;) | 20:23 |
| * MohammadAG pokes DocScrutinizer/DocScrutinizer51 | 20:23 | |
| Noobmonk3y | ahhh it is my tripod, well the same type ;) | 20:24 |
| Noobmonk3y | damn i'm sad | 20:24 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 20:24 |
| Noobmonk3y | back in a bit | 20:24 |
| MohammadAG | Bluewind, DocScrutinizer disassembled his device, he might be able to help | 20:24 |
| Bluewind | thx | 20:24 |
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| cehteh | just leave that part out, the stylus may fall of, but well :) | 20:26 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: i need copy of original pr1.3 fmtxd | 20:27 |
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| Bluewind | cehteh: so that thing just holds the stylus? | 20:27 |
| Bluewind | MohammadAG: thx those pics help. I think I found it | 20:28 |
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| cehteh | Bluewind: yeah i think its the spring which holds the stylus | 20:28 |
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| Bluewind | ok yeah it is | 20:29 |
| cehteh | well looks simple to me to put back in place isnt it? | 20:29 |
| Bluewind | there is a little bit of black plasitc in the circle I drew. that's where the hole of the thing should be | 20:29 |
| cehteh | i never disassembled my device :P | 20:29 |
| Macer | geez | 20:30 |
| Bluewind | nokia could have made that plastic bigger... | 20:30 |
| cehteh | unibody n900's :) | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Bluewind: it actually just makes stylus sliding a little nicer. holding stylus is yet another bit at tip of stylus. Ask lcuk as it seems he had similar problems | 20:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh, chinese is closed on tuesdays | 20:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | bahhhhhhhhhhhhh | 20:37 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: how do you need to sort the df output? | 20:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | well, was just going to tidy it up in a straight line, theoretically i should read each bit and tidy it up into a list though | 20:44 |
| Bluewind | DocScrutinizer51: well for now I just removed it | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's ok I guess | 20:44 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: if you're just going to process everything individually, you're better off not using sed in the first place | 20:45 |
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| Noobmonk3y | yeah, thinking just reading it into a variable, then ripping it apart | 20:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | but displaying it was my first challenge! | 20:46 |
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| tobis87 | Epic dnssec test site: http://test.dnssec-or-not.org/ http://i54.tinypic.com/28r3713.jpg | 20:52 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: QString output = QString(myprocess.readAllStandardOutput()); QStringList outputLines = output.split("\n", QString::SkipEmptyParts); | 20:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | oooooooooooo | 20:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | gimme 2 mins, scoffing my face, will test it :) | 20:53 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hey sjgadsby | 20:55 |
| sjgadsby | Hi, MohammadAG51! | 20:55 |
| sjgadsby | MohammadAG51: I'm looking forward to where the community updates for Maemo 5 might lead. Thank you for working on that project. It's a wonderful thing that you're doing. | 20:57 |
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| orospakr | Hi! I'm very happy with the ACM/PPP tethering mode ("PC Suite" mode) that I can use with NetworkManager, but I think that NAT'ed tethering -- if convenient to turn on -- using usb0 would also be handy. Is there some means of doing that? | 20:58 |
| orospakr | I suspect that I'd need the power-kernel for iptables, at the least. | 20:59 |
| Bluewind | ok reassembled, stylus works and it still boots. thx MohammadAG51, DocScrutinizer51 | 20:59 |
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| dolp | i need a tester | 21:01 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: QStringListIterator listIter(outputLines); while (listIter.hasNext()) { QStringList lineFields = listIter.next().split("\t", QString::SkipEmptyParts); QStringListIterator fieldIter(lineFields); while (fieldIter.hasNext()) { /* iterating over each field! */ } } | 21:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | w000p | 21:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | woah | 21:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | Crash, have you gone into uber geek mode? (Not that i'm not thankful!) | 21:02 |
| crashanddie | well, Qt is easy | 21:03 |
| crashanddie | and it's the first time I'm using it :) | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | your welcome sjgadsby :) | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | and Bluewind | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | Noobmonk3y, crashanddie has always been a coder, a well hidden one :P | 21:04 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ahhh | 21:04 |
| * Noobmonk3y likes it | 21:04 | |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 21:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | ok | 21:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | right, | 21:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | me needs to learn | 21:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | qlistiterator is new to me | 21:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | so i assume i need an include | 21:05 |
| Noobmonk3y | #include <QStringList> | 21:05 |
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| Noobmonk3y | tadaaaaaaaaaa | 21:05 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: I'm a C++ dev by day | 21:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | ahhh cool! | 21:06 |
| dolp | Noobmonk3y: i just chose you to be my tester! :D | 21:06 |
| crashanddie | I code any language I can get my hands on :) | 21:06 |
| * Noobmonk3y is an IT advisor by day, learning every day about IT :) hehe | 21:07 | |
| crashanddie | and when I can be bothered to do so | 21:07 |
| dolp | crashanddie: brainfuck is nice.. learn it | 21:07 |
| crashanddie | brainfuck is old | 21:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | ok question | 21:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | what variable needs to go into the outputlines? | 21:07 |
| Noobmonk3y | (what type?) | 21:07 |
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| Noobmonk3y | wb Mo | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | grr | 21:08 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: scroll up | 21:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | doh! | 21:09 |
| MohammadAG | what use is a cloak when your IP shows up | 21:09 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 21:11 |
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| * Noobmonk3y hacks MohammadAG's cloak | 21:11 | |
| crashanddie | [-]>[-]<>++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<.>+++[<+++>-]<++.---.++++.>+++++++++[<--- ------>-]<+.>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<--------.>+++[<+++>-]<+.>+++++++++[<--- ------>-]<--.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.>+++++[<+++++>-]<---.>++++[<---->-]<-- .>++++[<++++>-]<--.----.--.>+++[<--->-]<+. | 21:11 |
| crashanddie | dolp: [-]>[-]<>++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<.>+++[<+++>-]<++.---.++++.>+++++++++[<--------->-]<+.>+++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<--------.>+++[<+++>-]<+.>+++++++++[<--------->-]<--.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+.>+++++[<+++++>-]<---.>++++[<---->-]<--.>++++[<++++>-]<--.----.--.>+++[<--->-]<+. | 21:11 |
| BCMM | if you want to be identified to services before joining, just use your nickserv password as a server password | 21:12 |
| BCMM | freenode-specific feature | 21:12 |
| crashanddie | isn't it username:password? | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG | oh nice, didn't know that | 21:12 |
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| BCMM | it is not documented enough imho | 21:12 |
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| BCMM | especially with all those channels you want to autojoin, but aren't open to unregistered users | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | BCMM, didn't work | 21:13 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: hmm, let me look at my own settings | 21:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | ok, output is working | 21:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | so gonna use append in the *codey bit* | 21:15 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: yeah, that's what i'm doing | 21:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | while (fieldIter.hasNext()) { | 21:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | ui->textBrowser->append(output); | 21:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | } | 21:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | should work i think! | 21:15 |
| crashanddie | noo | 21:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | no? | 21:15 |
| BCMM | i have my pass as the server pass, and nothing set up to talk to nickserv | 21:15 |
| crashanddie | nope | 21:15 |
| Noobmonk3y | surely it is going through the loop? | 21:15 |
| crashanddie | yeah, but output contains the full df -h output | 21:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | ohhhhhhhhhhhh | 21:16 |
| crashanddie | so it would be fieldIter.next() | 21:16 |
| crashanddie | instead of output | 21:16 |
| Noobmonk3y | So just display linefields? | 21:16 |
| MohammadAG | BCMM, without your username first? | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: use a decent irc client with proper auto-authentication to nickserv, done priot to joining any channels! N00b! | 21:16 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: apparently | 21:16 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it is done prior to joining, but the server's laggy | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG | as always (freenode) | 21:17 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: that isn't really possible | 21:17 |
| * MohammadAG uses a loadfile | 21:17 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: it is, e.g by passing your credentials as server password - at least on freenode | 21:18 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: the method for working out when nickserv has responded would need to be network-specific | 21:18 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: that's exactly what i'm trying to help him do | 21:18 |
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| BCMM | what isn't possible is identify, wait for nickserv to respond, then autojoin | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: MohammadAG51 actually I think it's "nick:pw" for server password | 21:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: well, if NS is friggin lazy then you run into problems. But not if all your cmds are delayed in the internets by same lag | 21:21 |
| BCMM | (without coding network-specific stuff to decode nickserv's response) | 21:21 |
| * Noobmonk3y hmmmmmmmmms | 21:21 | |
| MohammadAG51 | sorta works, but only with some servers | 21:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | not on barjaval.freenode.net | 21:22 |
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| MohammadAG51 | or what's its name | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | /ns id paswd nick; sleep 2; /join bla; /join blub; | 21:22 |
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| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: i'm still a bit lost, but not for lack of trying. It gets the output, removes empty bits, goes through each line and tab's it out nicely....... | 21:23 |
| Noobmonk3y | (is my assumption) | 21:23 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: can you paste the code? | 21:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, how do I add a user to znc? | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | znc -c | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 21:23 |
| pupnik | "If an old and distinguished scientist tells you 'you *can* do that', there's a good chance you actually can. But if that same scientist says 'you *can't* do that' then he may well be wrong." - Vince Cert, 2010 | 21:23 |
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| Noobmonk3y | http://pastebin.com/wsC3zKeM | 21:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or edit znc.cfg | 21:24 |
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| Noobmonk3y | sorry crashanddie missed a barcket at the bottom, it is in my code though | 21:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: line 3,4,5 look odd | 21:27 |
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| Noobmonk3y | oh | 21:27 |
| Noobmonk3y | they are reading in fine though | 21:27 |
| Noobmonk3y | want me to ignore the sed? | 21:27 |
| Noobmonk3y | and just use the df-h? | 21:28 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: http://pastebin.com/AYFM5PjY | 21:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | its the code used earlier, so does read fine | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | you probably meant >>ash -c "x | y"<< but you do >>ash -c x | y<< | 21:28 |
| crashanddie | learn2debug | 21:29 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ;) | 21:29 |
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| Noobmonk3y | i do! | 21:29 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: drop the sed | 21:29 |
| crashanddie | you don't need it | 21:29 |
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| MohammadAG | he does for QTextBrowser to not fuck up text ;) | 21:29 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG: we'll format it afterwards | 21:29 |
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| MohammadAG | QTextBrowser doesn't handle line breaks properly | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | I see | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: also WHY ash??? | 21:30 |
| Noobmonk3y | cos the clever people said so | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | sh is the name, not ash | 21:31 |
| Noobmonk3y | DocScrutinizer: anything clever to add to it? lol ;) | 21:31 |
| user | Did someone too made the experience that the contacts list on the phone was lost after unsubscribing from mynokia or was this one more "odd" coincidence? | 21:32 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: http://pastebin.com/VG0spu79 | 21:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | ok crashanddie its debugging like this http://pastebin.com/bxphsPrr | 21:32 |
| crashanddie | user: bollocks | 21:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 21:32 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: ok, replace \t with " " | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | (space) | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: df -c ?? o.O | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | I left -c? | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | my bad, should be -h | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | hey, I'm doing this while I'm on the phone, yeah? | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 21:34 |
| sp3000 | crashanddie: that's what she sed. | 21:34 |
| sp3000 | eheh. | 21:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: !!!! yay!!! | 21:34 |
| user | unbelievable, i received unsubscription message 2 weeks later and though afterwards i receive an annoying n00b hint per SMS from these Nokia psychos! | 21:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | well not used your last code | 21:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | but the " " change is now reading out secier! | 21:34 |
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| crashanddie | So you get -> Line, --> Field --> Field --> Field? | 21:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | http://pastebin.com/kMK5kiYD | 21:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | almost | 21:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | well yes actually | 21:35 |
| crashanddie | excellent | 21:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | woah, thats kinda beautiful | 21:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | now i can feed that into a table! yay! | 21:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | thank you very very very much! | 21:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | and pfffffffffff to Doc's critisism ;) lol | 21:36 |
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| crashanddie | Hacking away at data, cut it up, slice it and present it in a different format is one of the most fulfilling parts of being a hacker (in my book) | 21:37 |
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| Noobmonk3y | hehe i agree :) - enjoyed it in pyqt :) | 21:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | well, python | 21:37 |
| crashanddie | no matter the language you're using -- be it python, bash (with GNU tools) or perl. | 21:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehe | 21:37 |
| SpeedEvil | awk++ | 21:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | ooo i could even do a QT set of pie charts now :P | 21:37 |
| * user waves for pie | 21:38 | |
| *** user is now known as andax | 21:38 | |
| Noobmonk3y | or a list of bar charts, oooo decisions decisions | 21:38 |
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| * DocScrutinizer spends some CHERRIES for the pie | 21:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer | seems user also has one spare | 21:40 |
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| Reffy | S'up guys. My keyboard sensor decided to break so could someone tell me either where the sensor is located or a Dbus command to make the N900 think the keyboard is open? | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Reffy: ouch. The sensor is a hall switch somewhere above the "E" / "R" keys and is operated by a small magnet in the screen half | 21:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I seem to recall reports where that tiny magnet got loose and messed up kbd slide detection | 21:44 |
| SpeedEvil | search for [79672.052978] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | [79672.193511] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | and similar ind dmesg | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | (take the "above E / R" bit with a grain of salt, I haven't actually looked it up recently) | 21:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | If that is not rpesent, then you're screwed | 21:46 |
| Venemo_ | hihi guys | 21:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | (well - from a functioning properly hardware POV - and reflashing won't help. | 21:46 |
| Venemo_ | hi MohammadAG | 21:46 |
| Venemo_ | :) | 21:46 |
| Reffy | Ok, thanks | 21:46 |
| Venemo_ | can anyone lend me a megaupload account for a small time? | 21:46 |
| crashanddie | Venemo_: thread carefully. | 21:47 |
| BCMM | Venemo_: haha | 21:47 |
| MohammadAG | hi Venemo_ | 21:47 |
| sp3000 | DocScrutinizer, roughly at L, says a short waving at it with a magnet | 21:47 |
| Reffy | ~ $ dmesg | grep kb | 21:47 |
| Reffy | [ 3.133728] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:47 |
| Reffy | [ 4.864227] Registered led device: lp5523:kb1 | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 4.864410] Registered led device: lp5523:kb2 | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 4.864593] Registered led device: lp5523:kb3 | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 4.864746] Registered led device: lp5523:kb4 | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 4.865478] Registered led device: lp5523:kb5 | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 4.865631] Registered led device: lp5523:kb6 | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 227.615264] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 227.888549] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 258.091827] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 258.357330] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 319.513610] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 319.662078] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 327.340881] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | Reffy: !!!! | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 327.818298] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 358.834045] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 21:48 | |
| Reffy | [ 359.021362] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 398.044921] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 398.420288] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| BCMM | wot, no bot? | 21:48 |
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| Venemo_ | Reffy: thx, but I think we get it | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 446.880981] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 447.083892] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 509.466857] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 509.779876] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| soltys | ;xxx | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 936.716857] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| crashanddie | djeezus, DocScrutinizer, a bit quicker? | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 936.966613] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| Venemo_ | lol | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 1091.794952] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed | 21:48 |
| Reffy | [ 1092.013671] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open | 21:48 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +q *!*@cpc3-gors1-0-0-cust41.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com | 21:48 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q Reffy!*@* | 21:48 | |
| soltys | \o/ | 21:49 |
| BCMM | you guys REALLY need a better bot in here | 21:49 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: /cs quiet #maemo nickname | 21:49 |
| sp3000 | our bots are made of meat | 21:49 |
| MohammadAG | I'm curious if chanserv auto set that before DocScrutinizer :P | 21:49 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG: no, I set it | 21:49 |
| BCMM | sp3000: that's why they lag | 21:49 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 21:49 | |
| sp3000 | BCMM: add caffeine! | 21:49 |
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| crashanddie | Reffy: kill your IRC client, then reconnect. PM me when you're done. | 21:50 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 21:50 | |
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| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: -q Reffy!*@* | 21:50 | |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 21:50 | |
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| BCMM | y'all trying to make me break my resolution to quote the matrix less | 21:52 |
| nox- | moin | 21:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moinmoin | 21:52 |
| crashanddie | Reffy: all done? | 21:52 |
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| Reffy | crashanddie: Yeah | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | tztztztz | 21:53 |
| crashanddie | let's not do that again :) | 21:53 |
| andax | reffy: please use http://pastebin.com instead of flooding #maemo | 21:53 |
| Venemo_ | do you guys have an idea about what I can do with a microswitch whose switch has broken off? | 21:53 |
| Venemo_ | I still can switch it with a needle, but it is not so comfortable | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_: throw away? | 21:53 |
| Reffy | I didn't realise it was so much, my bad | 21:53 |
| Reffy | I only glanced at the terminal | 21:53 |
| RST38h | glue a piece of plastic? | 21:53 |
| crashanddie | Reffy: more than 3 lines is too much | 21:53 |
| BCMM | Venemo_: use it to make a device you own slightly more frustrationg? | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: forget it | 21:54 |
| RST38h | heat up the needle and stick it into whatever remains of the switch button? | 21:54 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer: it is soldered onto the board | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | sometimes 5 lines are tolerated | 21:54 |
| RST38h | then cut the needle and glue another piece of plastic to it? | 21:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_: replace it or live with the needle solution | 21:54 |
| Venemo_ | RST38h: I thought about it, but I don't think a glue would last long enough | 21:55 |
| RST38h | put a little bead on top, then a piece of scotch | 21:55 |
| Venemo_ | this is the on/off switch of a Nokia 500 | 21:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo_: obtain a replacement button, and solder it on | 21:55 |
| RST38h | the scotch will not let the bead falloff and the bead will transfer pressure to the switch | 21:55 |
| BCMM | consume the scotch, then try to wield a soldering iron | 21:56 |
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| Venemo_ | RST38h: by scotch, you mean scotch whiskey? :P | 21:56 |
| RST38h | no, I mean sticky tape | 21:56 |
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| Venemo_ | RST38h: ah. | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you ever had success with this, that lasted >1 week? | 21:57 |
| Venemo_ | RST38h: well this thing is less than 1mm, so it would be hard :( | 21:57 |
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| RST38h | Doc: yes | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | anazing | 21:57 |
| Reffy | The sensor is located between the "P" and "O" buttons | 21:57 |
| Reffy | I found the magnet that broke off | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | me never, until finally I gave up on such fixing | 21:58 |
| RST38h | Doc: When done accurately, it is a pretty decent solution, but does not replace a fully functioning switch of course | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Reffy: :-D | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Reffy: sorry I had it in mind from a mirrored view | 21:58 |
| Venemo_ | RST38h: this is a small plastic thing, and the switcher part itself is broken | 21:59 |
| RST38h | Venemo: ok, replace the damn switch and stop buggering us all :) | 21:59 |
| Venemo_ | ah, thx for the advices anyways | 22:00 |
| RST38h | Venemo: You will find a battery powered soldering ironat a local RadioShack or its analog | 22:00 |
| Venemo_ | :) | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_: or simply short the switch with a wire soldered across it. Never bother again :-P | 22:00 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: these are bad idea | 22:00 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: for soldering electronics | 22:00 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer: :) | 22:01 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer: this is a pretty funny story btw | 22:01 |
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| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer: one of my father's colleague has found a bunch of Nokia 500 devices in a river | 22:01 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer: in the exact place where he got robbed a few years ago | 22:02 |
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| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer: after cleaning out the dirt, some of them still work, but the guy didn't exactly know how to disassemble them correctly, so some of them have this swich broken off :( | 22:02 |
| Venemo_ | which is a pity | 22:02 |
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| Venemo_ | btw, surprisingly for a Nokia device, this thing runs Windows CE | 22:04 |
| andax | gas powered soldering irons are cool too | 22:05 |
| andax | or rather hot :) | 22:05 |
| Venemo_ | :) | 22:07 |
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| RST38h | Venemo: it is a rebranded device from some company they bought | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Venemo: that is why poor thing runs WinCE | 22:09 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: exactly right thing if he only needs to solder a single switch | 22:10 |
| crashanddie | "Symbian has been declared "The Embedded Operating System for Europe" by a consortium of European countries and companies, who have agreed to invest a total of 22 million euros (about $31 million at last count), 11 million euros of which will come directly from the European Commission. The idea is the "development of next generation technologies for the Symbian platform," wrote Richard Collins, technology manager for the Symbia | 22:10 |
| crashanddie | http://blog.symbian.org/2010/11/01/euromillions-for-the-symbian-ecosystem-e22m-committed-to-next-generation-technologies-for-symbian/ | 22:10 |
| RST38h | not made for real soldering work of course | 22:10 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: They will buy a giant multi-story ornate bong for $22m | 22:11 |
| Venemo | RST38h: you know that for a fact? | 22:12 |
| RST38h | And finally add the third color to their web site (current ones being black, white, and yellow) | 22:12 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: no | 22:12 |
| RST38h | Venemo: what? the bong thing? | 22:12 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: it will just fuck up circuitry around it | 22:12 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: it's applying 4-6V onto a tip | 22:12 |
| Venemo | RST38h: [21:09:27] <RST38h> Venemo: it is a rebranded device from some company they bought -> this | 22:13 |
| RST38h | ah | 22:13 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: and because of way tip is made he will touch some sensitive parts | 22:13 |
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| Venemo | RST38h: it makes sense | 22:13 |
| RST38h | Venemo: http://nokia500.wetpaint.com/ | 22:13 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/cold-soldering.htm | 22:13 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: this explains it better | 22:13 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Smart2Go, so you can guess what company it was | 22:14 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: never recommend that to newbiew | 22:14 |
| jacekowski | newbie | 22:14 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: or he will end up with loads of not working circuitry | 22:14 |
| Venemo | RST38h: hm I guess that was the company which they bought for their own maps solution right? | 22:14 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: the tip is supposed to be made of ceramics | 22:14 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: So I am not sure how it can apply voltage through the tip | 22:15 |
| RST38h | Venemo: yep | 22:15 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: it's graphite based stuff | 22:15 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/cold-soldering2.htm | 22:15 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: read the article | 22:15 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: it explains it | 22:15 |
| Venemo | RST38h: hm, well this makes sense :) | 22:15 |
| RST38h | ok | 22:16 |
| * nox- wonders if powertop is lying when used with kernel-power... | 22:16 | |
| nox- | claims constant 1.1GHz... | 22:17 |
| nox- | (and i didnt change from defaults) | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | ~oc | 22:17 |
| infobot | [oc] an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | ~overclock | 22:17 |
| infobot | I overclock in winter to keep dpkg's toes warm. | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | ~overclocking | 22:17 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 22:17 |
| nox- | haha well im not overclocking, just use kernel-power bc of kismet and the charger bug... | 22:18 |
| nox- | looking at the sysfs cpu clock confirms 600 MHz or lower | 22:19 |
| RST38h | jacekowski: so it is not the tip that heats up, but the spot you are soldering, as it shorts the tip? :) | 22:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | coldheat is basically junk | 22:20 |
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| Noobmonk3y | stupid q, crashanddie whats the declare name for a qt integer? Qinteger? | 22:21 |
| Noobmonk3y | ie Qstring = string... lol | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG_ | int? | 22:22 |
| Noobmonk3y | sorry QString = string | 22:22 |
| Noobmonk3y | nope :| | 22:22 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ahhhh qint16 and qint32 i think | 22:23 |
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| Noobmonk3y | meh no | 22:24 |
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| Noobmonk3y | hmmmmm | 22:25 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: "int" | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | it aint wanting to use it | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | Aghhhhhhhhhhhhh | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | darn i'm a twat | 22:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | i was using capitals | 22:26 |
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| crashanddie | noob | 22:27 |
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| Noobmonk3y | yup lol | 22:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | ok getting there | 22:28 |
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| Noobmonk3y | have a table | 22:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | iterating thriugh | 22:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | through* | 22:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | and adding each field | 22:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | when the colum = 6 i start on the next row....... | 22:28 |
| Noobmonk3y | using ui->tableWidget->setItem(irow, icol,field); (but it doesnt like field!!! lol) | 22:29 |
| Noobmonk3y | no matchin call for setItem(int&, int&, QString) | 22:29 |
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| MohammadAG | void QTableWidget::setItem ( int row, int column, QTableWidgetItem * item ) | 22:30 |
| Noobmonk3y | :P | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: yes | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qtablewidgetitem.html | 22:31 |
| Noobmonk3y | muhahahahaha | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: with these cheap battery powered irons | 22:31 |
| Noobmonk3y | ui->tableWidget->setItem(irow, icol,new QTableWidgetItem(field)); | 22:31 |
| * Noobmonk3y is learning slow! | 22:31 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol - got all the values into column2 ;) - getting there! | 22:32 |
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| Noobmonk3y | got is in a table though, thats a darn good start! | 22:32 |
| jacekowski | Global Offset Table? | 22:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | ?! | 22:33 |
| tybollt | noob! | 22:33 |
| tybollt | oh and | 22:34 |
| tybollt | I'm getting an android | 22:34 |
| tybollt | so LULZ | 22:34 |
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| ham5 | THANKS | 22:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | ?! | 22:34 |
| ham5 | I was gettin this channel is invite only | 22:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 22:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | sorry just saw your msg | 22:35 |
| nox- | huh | 22:35 |
| ham5 | :) | 22:35 |
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| nox- | maybe you need to known to nickserv? | 22:35 |
| nox- | to be known even | 22:35 |
| ham5 | already was | 22:35 |
| nox- | oh | 22:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | in qt is it var = var+1; or var ++; or something else? | 22:36 |
| nox- | ham5, also logged in? | 22:36 |
| ham5 | ppl been joining lately? | 22:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | 3 mins ago, last join | 22:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | before that 4 mins ago | 22:37 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: you're talking about an int? | 22:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | yup | 22:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | incrementing | 22:38 |
| zokier | ++var; is usually the recommended way | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: var++; ++var; var += 1; var = var + 1; | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | there is no frigging recommended way | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | "it depends on the situation" | 22:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | cool ty! | 22:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 22:38 |
| zokier | *usually* | 22:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | sounds like my kinda coding :P | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | ++var assigns the value before computing the lvalue | 22:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | thats just geeky! | 22:39 |
| crashanddie | var++ computes the lvalue and assigns it before incrementing | 22:39 |
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| crashanddie | int i = 2; int j = i++ ->> i == 3, j == 2. | 22:41 |
| crashanddie | int i = 2; int j = ++i ->> i == 3, j == 3. | 22:41 |
| Noobmonk3y | :| | 22:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | w000t almost there | 22:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | displaying the table! | 22:43 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: if you need help... | 22:44 |
| crashanddie | i'm bored. | 22:44 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol!!! | 22:44 |
| Noobmonk3y | thank you! :) | 22:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | the wine is helping me at the mo! | 22:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | i've gotta learn somehow! | 22:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | youve helped me so much so far, the last bit i'm gonna battle out | 22:45 |
| crashanddie | anyone else got code they need doing? | 22:45 |
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| crashanddie | preferably python/bash/perl. | 22:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehehe | 22:45 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol you can go fix the pyqt healthcheck while i redesign the new one lol | 22:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | pr1.3 killed it | 22:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | DONE!!!!!!!!!! | 22:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | omg | 22:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | it's in a table! | 22:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | df -h is in a bloody table! | 22:46 |
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| Noobmonk3y | now just to tidy up the table ;) | 22:46 |
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| dolp | if someone wants to help me test my little desktop widget app then pm me :D | 22:47 |
| Noobmonk3y | dolp what does it do? :) | 22:48 |
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| dolp | noobmonk3y just little app i made to count sms.. but seems to have some issues with it. need someone with pr1.3 to test it | 22:50 |
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| tripzero | dolp: apt-get upgrade | 22:50 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 22:50 |
| tripzero | then you are the one with pr1.3 to test it ;) | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, apt-get install python2.5-qt4-sip to fix the sip thingy | 22:51 |
| crashanddie | sip? | 22:51 |
| dolp | tripzero: i already have pr1.3 but the app gives me segfault. need someone else to test it.. | 22:51 |
| tripzero | oh | 22:51 |
| tripzero | lol | 22:51 |
| zokier | gdb is your friend | 22:52 |
| * tripzero 's n900 just got shipped off to repair facility | 22:52 | |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: about 8 different errors so far | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | tripzero: what is wrong with it? | 22:52 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: easyish one for ya! | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, paste them | 22:53 |
| crashanddie | fire at will | 22:53 |
| tripzero | although, i'm tempted to jam my sim card in this work n900 unit and 'test' it for a few days | 22:53 |
| tybollt | \o/ | 22:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | I want to add a row to the table, just before i put something into it | 22:53 |
| tybollt | android here I come | 22:53 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ui->tableWidget->setRowCount(ui->tableWidget->rowCount ++) | 22:53 |
| tybollt | desire | 22:53 |
| tripzero | ShadowJK, usb port fell out | 22:53 |
| tybollt | \o/ | 22:53 |
| tybollt | yay | 22:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | i think i went about it the wrong way! | 22:53 |
| tybollt | gogogo android | 22:53 |
| tripzero | which appears to be all too common | 22:53 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: + 1 | 22:53 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: rather than ++ | 22:53 |
| tybollt | can someone KB my retarded ass olready? :) | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | may I? | 22:54 |
| tybollt | yes please | 22:54 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o MohammadAG | 22:54 | |
| tripzero | i need a temporary replacement phone! | 22:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | hmmm, naaa, didnt like that -> ui->tableWidget->setRowCount(ui->tableWidget->rowCount(+1)); | 22:54 |
| tripzero | samsung galaxy S is temping me... | 22:54 |
| * tybollt bends over | 22:54 | |
| tripzero | but i want an n9 | 22:54 |
| *** MohammadAG sets mode: +b *!*johan@*.customers.ownit.se | 22:54 | |
| *** tybollt was kicked by MohammadAG (Requested :P) | 22:54 | |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 22:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | oh god, who gave Mo power | 22:55 |
| tripzero | rofl | 22:55 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: ui->tableWidget->setRowCount(ui->tableWidget->rowCount() + 1); | 22:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | ahhhhhhhhhhhh | 22:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | that makes sense | 22:55 |
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| * MohammadAG negotiates with terrorist over PM | 22:55 | |
| ShadowJK | You're either with us or against us! | 22:56 |
| tripzero | shouldn't you *not* negotiate with terrorists? | 22:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | yay! | 22:56 |
| MohammadAG | Terrorist has switched over to android | 22:56 |
| ShadowJK | or whatever that slogan was | 22:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | working -> now to fit it on a screen! | 22:56 |
| *** MohammadAG sets mode: -b *!*johan@*.customers.ownit.se | 22:56 | |
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| MohammadAG | tripzero, I am one, so I'm allowed to :P | 22:56 |
| tripzero | terrorists with mod powers... what is this world coming too... | 22:57 |
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| MohammadAG | /kick crashanddie should teach you not to trust a random person in #maemo :P | 22:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 22:57 |
| *** MohammadAG sets mode: -o MohammadAG | 22:57 | |
| Noobmonk3y | :P | 22:57 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG | 22:57 | |
| crashanddie | you're right | 22:57 |
| crashanddie | enough of your shit. | 22:57 |
| crashanddie | I think the right sentence that comes to mind... is... | 22:58 |
| crashanddie | "pwned" | 22:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol just realised crashanddie !! | 22:58 |
| tybollt | anyway so for the maemo users here - when work made you use android - how horrible an experience was it? :S | 22:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | It's separated Mounted and on from 'Mounted on' into two cols lol | 22:58 |
| tripzero | tybollt, it was meh for me | 22:58 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG | 22:58 | |
| * MohammadAG does a rage quit | 22:58 | |
| jacekowski | tybollt: i would quit | 22:58 |
| tybollt | no | 22:58 |
| * tybollt slaps MohammadAG w/ frals | 22:58 | |
| crashanddie | tybollt: yeah, you'll need some specific error handling | 22:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | ~seen frals | 22:58 |
| crashanddie | shit, wrong person | 22:58 |
| * tripzero used a nexus one for a few weeks but preferred the n900 | 22:58 | |
| infobot | frals is currently on #meego (4h 22m 19s), last said: 'DocScrutinizer: is it sending an sms each time you press unsubscribe?'. | 22:59 |
| MohammadAG | meh, doesn't work on bouncers | 22:59 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: yeah, you need some specific error handling | 22:59 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol! | 22:59 |
| tripzero | there are some serious annoyances for me with the android UI | 22:59 |
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| tybollt | jacekowski: You dont have a wife and kid to provide for - do you? :) | 22:59 |
| MohammadAG | need to figure out error handling myself :/ | 22:59 |
| tybollt | to EMOQUIT work is not really a solution | 23:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | oo this is gonna be hard | 23:00 |
| MohammadAG | my app always assumed everything went a-OK | 23:00 |
| jacekowski | tybollt: that's your fault | 23:00 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: for example: if (field == "Mounted") { /* add a specific row with the headers */ break; } | 23:00 |
| * MohammadAG lols | 23:00 | |
| jacekowski | tybollt: i can find a new job within a week | 23:00 |
| jacekowski | tybollt: if i'm willing to move | 23:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 23:00 |
| * Noobmonk3y needs more wine | 23:00 | |
| jacekowski | or commute to london | 23:00 |
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| crashanddie | jacekowski++ | 23:01 |
| tybollt | I cant move or commute or shitfuck | 23:01 |
| crashanddie | tybollt: I moved continents and back in about 6 months time because the job was crap | 23:01 |
| tybollt | ja | 23:02 |
| crashanddie | tybollt: lost about 15 grand in the experience | 23:02 |
| tybollt | but not because they made you use an android :) | 23:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | ok back | 23:02 |
| tybollt | crashanddie: I hear you.. | 23:02 |
| crashanddie | tybollt: definitely not, quitting because of android would be a shit reason | 23:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | sooo crashanddie ..... is it best not to determine the "mounted on" in the first part? QStringList lineFields = line.split(" ", QString::SkipEmptyParts); | 23:02 |
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| tybollt | crashanddie: Thank you :) | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: useless | 23:02 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 23:02 | |
| tybollt | awww | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | stupid bot, highlighting me | 23:02 |
| * Noobmonk3y agrees with infobot , safest place to be | 23:03 | |
| tybollt | infobot: EMOHUGGZ | 23:03 |
| tybollt | ~bend over | 23:03 |
| * infobot bends over and spreads legs | 23:03 | |
| crashanddie | android is pretty good to work with. Loads of people put up with Java, Android doesn't have more constraints than saying hardcore J2EE or WebSphere. | 23:03 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, highlighted, good? :P | 23:03 |
| tybollt | is the desire a nice phone? | 23:03 |
| tybollt | I mean, not countring the android part I suppose :) | 23:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | tybollt: yup | 23:04 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: not much difference | 23:04 |
| Noobmonk3y | ohhhhhhhhhk | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wtf is going on in this chan anyway?? | 23:04 |
| pupnik | lack of discipline ;) | 23:04 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: or you could just skip the first line as a whole... | 23:04 |
| pupnik | i honestly don't see an app future between bada and meego unless they make the damn kernel compatible | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: did you set +i for LOLZ?? | 23:05 |
| crashanddie | I set +i? | 23:05 |
| Aranel | I'm getting an error when building my pkg on Scratchbox, It's ok on my host system but can't package it on SB: make: dh: Command not found , make: *** [clean] Error 127 | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no one set +o | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | +i even | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: seems you're having fun with random chanmodes meddling | 23:06 |
| crashanddie | I do? | 23:06 |
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| Aranel | Can't I force it to copy a file to it's destination, without any debian/rules etc? | 23:06 |
| crashanddie | mode/#maemo [+Ccntjf 3:20 ##overflow] | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | uh, isn't the kernel largely irrelevant when not even the same hign level api exists | 23:06 |
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| * crashanddie doesn't see an i in there | 23:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ...while I try to figure why ham5 pesters me about #maemo being +i | 23:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | crash.... | 23:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | i love you | 23:06 |
| Noobmonk3y | what a great suggestion | 23:07 |
| ham5 | pesters? :( | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | and a meego app not being a meego app if it uses stuff from outside the official toolkits/apis ;p | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ham5: sorry | 23:07 |
| crashanddie | ham5: where did you see that #maemo was +i? | 23:07 |
| crashanddie | ~ping | 23:08 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:08 |
| ham5 | I got that for about a half hour, then I decided to msg some ops | 23:08 |
| crashanddie | ham5: when? | 23:08 |
| ham5 | got in about as soon as I msgd doc | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | since he just replied, i'm sure he wasn't there | 23:09 |
| crashanddie | alrighty then | 23:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: If something is not = to something.... if (irow!=0) ? | 23:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | or !iroow=0 | 23:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | irow* | 23:09 |
| zap | Interesting, anybody thought why there are so much commercial games for WebOS, and there are near zero such games for Maemo? | 23:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | Noobmonk3y, latter afaik | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | err | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes, !irow=0 | 23:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh didnt work | 23:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | though wait for crashanddie's answer, he knows more :P | 23:10 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ok, went about it the wrong way | 23:11 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: what type is irow? | 23:12 |
| Noobmonk3y | an int, but i think ther eis an easier way | 23:12 |
| crashanddie | what are you trying to do? | 23:12 |
| Noobmonk3y | listIter.next(); -> just calling that before the while loop - to skip it | 23:12 |
| * nox- just looked in his log from today and didnt see any mode i change | 23:12 | |
| Noobmonk3y | just skipping the top row | 23:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | Yup! | 23:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | that worked! | 23:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | I R Learninginging | 23:13 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: yeah, that's what I said you ought to do in the first place :P | 23:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | It actually looks quite beautiful! | 23:13 |
| crashanddie | about 10 minutes ago. | 23:13 |
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| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: you say, i do, wine ignores sorry! | 23:13 |
| crashanddie | np | 23:13 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hmm, why does apt take longer to read package lists initially? | 23:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | now to autosize/wrap the rows :) | 23:13 |
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| MohammadAG51 | does the eMMC have a "warm up" phase or something? | 23:14 |
| ds3 | got to be gentle with the filament or it will snap ;) | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | you have ram | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | it caches stuff | 23:15 |
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| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: resizeRowsToContents() | 23:16 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: class QTableView | 23:16 |
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| Noobmonk3y | Yay! almost beat you to it | 23:17 |
| Noobmonk3y | just testijng | 23:17 |
| Noobmonk3y | testing* | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: sorry, I'm in a foul mood. Also sorry to ham5. Seems freenode has a bug, as only thing I could imagine is a jointhrottle that kicked in and that should forward to ##overflow, not tell shit about #maemo being +i | 23:17 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: np | 23:18 |
| crashanddie | ham5: if you ever have an issue again, feel free to /mode #maemo to check what's what. Also /msg DocScrutinizer or myself. | 23:18 |
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| crashanddie | we'll react if we're available. | 23:18 |
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| ham5 | no biggie thx for the concern tho | 23:19 |
| Noobmonk3y | hmmm, ok, not bad size 7 font, but fits on the n900 lol | 23:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: afaik != is a valid comparator, and equal to !( = ) | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ! ( == ) | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/equal/equivalent/ | 23:21 |
| tybollt | (.)(.) | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: lol | 23:22 |
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| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: thank you again :) | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh | 23:31 |
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| V-ille | did maps always have the recalculate-route button, or did that arrive with pr1.3? | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >>Obama shot down by tea party activist, who shouts "Take that for not being superman! I believed in you"<< | 23:32 |
| Noobmonk3y | :| | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | V-ille, 1.#e | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | 1.3 | 23:33 |
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| V-ille | I thought that feature wasn't there before | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | it wasnt | 23:33 |
| V-ille | I remember cursing the lack of it, it's good it was added :) | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Seems USA doesn't feel happy unless they have idiots and alcoholics to govern them | 23:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | hmmmm ctrl+shift+P aint working lol | 23:36 |
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| Noobmonk3y | eh | 23:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | screenshots still work for other people? | 23:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | and ctrl+shift+p is right? | 23:37 |
| ham5 | works for me | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ctrl-shift-p is right, and what makes you so damn sure it didn't work | 23:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | cos the files aint there :p | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | no they're not there, they're over there :-P | 23:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a serious note, I also always have a hard time to locate them | 23:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | just checked | 23:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | nothing since last week in screenshots folder | 23:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | but ye i agree, they do vanish alot | 23:40 |
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| Noobmonk3y | hmmm, now how to get a screenshot | 23:41 |
| Noobmonk3y | vnc server maybe lol! -> long winded way! | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | use load applet? | 23:41 |
| Noobmonk3y | Trying, but shortcutd is pissing it off lol | 23:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | cam button is used for something else | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | tzz | 23:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 23:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | its never ending pain in the ass | 23:42 |
| SpeedEvil | wait for it to timeout | 23:42 |
| SpeedEvil | it takes a pic anyway in 20s | 23:42 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 23:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh i never use shortcutd anyway | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, it does | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even better screenshots that don't capture the fadig notifier :-P | 23:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh, not doing anything after 20s | 23:43 |
| Noobmonk3y | wtf is going on | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | you broke it, bloody overclocker! | 23:44 |
| Noobmonk3y | lmfao | 23:44 |
| Noobmonk3y | not overclocked at all :P | 23:44 |
| Noobmonk3y | could it be saving somewhere else? | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | wut, no OC? well, then screenshots can not work :-D | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: that's what I suggested to check by my first rant | 23:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! | 23:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | Date and time has reset to 01/jan 2009! | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 23:45 |
| Noobmonk3y | wohooooooooooooo | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: I'm disappointed. You promised you won't mess around wit time and space of universe anymore! | 23:46 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehehe ;) | 23:47 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: made me i promise | 23:47 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: http://www.greg-roberts.com/hc1.png | 23:47 |
| * mgedmin discovers that brain is not necessary for programming | 23:47 | |
| Noobmonk3y | mgedmin: wine is though | 23:47 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPowc1yM0NQ notion ink -- awesome tegra2 tablet, transflective 1024x600 display (100mW in full sunlight), rear trackpad, swivelable camera | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: that's why I left that habit and leave it to others | 23:48 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: nice one | 23:48 |
| mgedmin | don't give me ideas, Noobmonk3y; the twin crutches of unit tests and version control are barely enough to keep me in line | 23:48 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehe! yay!!! - i'm just getting the basic screens working before i tidy up and clean up! but thats 3 screens done! | 23:48 |
| Noobmonk3y | 8+ more to go! | 23:48 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: good on ya. | 23:48 |
| Noobmonk3y | That one scorlls down, so will need to add some sexy arrors, as qt scrollbars are non existant | 23:49 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol!!! | 23:49 |
| Noobmonk3y | mgedmin: I have a police breathalyser ;) - tis great fun at parties | 23:49 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie: have to admit i'm impressed with how much quicker c++ is app wise, not coding wise lol | 23:49 |
| crashanddie | well... duh | 23:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer is amazed how much quicker crashanddie is compared to Noobmonk3y | 23:50 | |
| Noobmonk3y | 2 weeks to get Healthcheck into maemo.org in pyqt, 2 weeks to do 3 screens in c++/qt, lol | 23:50 |
| Noobmonk3y | DocScrutinizer: less wine | 23:50 |
| Noobmonk3y | and i haven't even looked at packaging yet :| | 23:50 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: C++ will always be faster than Python during execution, without taking into account that C++ is pretty much "native" Qt, whereas python needs glue to connect to the C++ first. | 23:50 |
| kerio | crashanddie: lies! | 23:50 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol! | 23:51 |
| crashanddie | I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a 30-40% speed increase on average. | 23:51 |
| kerio | JITted python beats unoptimized c++ most of the times | 23:51 |
| crashanddie | kerio: and can you use JIT python with Qt? | 23:51 |
| kerio | no idea | 23:51 |
| kerio | pypy is still somewhat of a... pre pre pre pre alpha | 23:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: I bet I can code something in python that's 10000% slower than coded in C | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | (++) | 23:52 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol doc | 23:52 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: sleep(1) vs sys.sleep(10000)? | 23:52 |
| Aranel | Can someone look and tell me wtf is wrong with it?: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/audelicious_1.0.0/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt It's driving me crazy :| | 23:53 |
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| kerio | Aranel: the build failed | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I more though of a for(i=0; i<100000000; i++) vs Qobject i\n | 23:54 |
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| Noobmonk3y | kerio: damn you are good | 23:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | DocScrutinizer geek | 23:54 |
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| kerio | i think it's because debian/rules exited with an error | 23:54 |
| Aranel | kerio: yeah, I don't know why, It's my first package (except the l10n thing, but there was no binaries in that one) | 23:54 |
| crashanddie | kerio: create two apps, but this is the fakecode: create dynamic string list, and string variable mystring. loop 10000 times while doing stringlist.append(mystring + "woohoo") | 23:54 |
| kerio | i could be mistaken | 23:54 |
| crashanddie | kerio: one in python, the other one in STL C++ | 23:54 |
| kerio | crashanddie: why would you do that | 23:54 |
| crashanddie | I bet you $5 that C++ will kick the pants off python, whether it's JIT or not. | 23:55 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lcuk: alive? | 23:55 |
| Aranel | kerio: It's working quite good on Scratchbox. | 23:55 |
| kerio | crashanddie: [mystring + "woohoo"] * 10000 | 23:55 |
| crashanddie | kerio: because memory allocation/augmentation is one of the trickiest things in any language, and that is the only thing that will drive production-worthy performance | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: you got my idea :-9 | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 23:56 |
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| crashanddie | because in 99% of the scenarios, you don't know the size of the data you're going to handle. When you're working with streams, when you're working with complex data structures, when you're working with unknown data structures | 23:56 |
| kerio | ["foo" + "bar"] * 10000 returns instantly for me | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah | 23:57 |
| Noobmonk3y | is the meego conference on at the mo? or was that a while ago? | 23:57 |
| kerio | if you need that kind of dynamic allocation you should use a db | 23:57 |
| kerio | probably | 23:57 |
| crashanddie | WTF? | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | even braindead-JIT will optimize that to 0 | 23:57 |
| crashanddie | dude, kerio, are you serious? | 23:57 |
| kerio | you're saying a list is not enough for you | 23:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer suffocates from coughing | 23:58 | |
| kerio | :< | 23:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | right, space + system done, onto cpu now.... | 23:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer envisions kerio coming up with gnu-sort-2 based on db | 23:59 | |
| crashanddie | kerio: so your answer to "python's list handling isn't fast enough" is "use a database, probably written in C++" | 23:59 |
| kerio | python's lists are quite efficient, afaik | 23:59 |
| kerio | dynamic size and all | 23:59 |
| crashanddie | they are | 23:59 |
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