IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-10-25

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oshincould these qt libs in extra-dev required for playing with qml cause trobles installing pr1.3?00:35
DocScrutinizercan't see why00:36
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sivang1.3 is released?00:49
sivangand no note on MLs?00:50
sivangDocScrutinizer: ^ hey :)00:50
alteregoNo, 1.3 isn't released yet, I'm hoping it'll be out in the next couple of weeks.00:50
alteregoWould be nice if it coincided with the MeeGo 1.1 release.00:50
alteregoThough there's no reason for that to actually happen ^.^00:50
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sivangalterego: right :)(00:51
sivangReading the backlog, there has been some interesting discussion going on here00:51
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sivangbiological weapons of mass destructions, etc00:52
alteregoCan't say I've been paying much attention to be honest ;)00:52
sivangfrals: have you set a mms gateway for your app? :)00:52
sivangfrals: given Stskeeps 's remakrs.00:52
* sivang is just being silly00:52
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sivangalterego: my python key value store prototype passses all tests, I'm now setting up lenny chroot for packaging00:53
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sivangalterego: do you remember how python stuff are packages these days in debian by any chance?00:53
sivang(terribly off topic)00:53
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sivangalterego: last I did that it had only python-central00:54
alteregoCan't say I used anything special to generate my backages.00:54
alteregoJust cp'd them in my debian/rules file to where they were supposed to be.00:54
sivangalterego: well, you sort's have to wire into python's setuptools00:54
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* javispedro concludes that, at this point, tmo is still worth it.00:55
alteregojavispedro: why now?00:55
javispedroI think SNR has slightly improved since the crazy days00:55
sivangalterego: hmm, so the proper way is to have this setuptools deal with it, and only call it from debian/rules00:55
sivanganyway, I'm off to #debian@ oftc00:55
alteregoCheck out someone elses package, like one of the pymaemo guys.00:55
sivangcheer all, see you later when I'vefinished my little project.00:55
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javispedroalterego: let's say I've got quite useful PMs, and slightly above the SNR I expected on the preenv thread.00:56
alteregoGood for you :)00:57
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javispedroit has remind me of the first days of drnoksnes, and back then, while there was still complains about the decaying SNR on tmo, I would not have said it was "awful"00:57
javispedroyou still have to avoid flamewar topics like the plague, though.00:58
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javispedrobut the worst offenders have already gone to "greener" pastures I say.00:58
alteregoI can't, I'm like a fly to a flourescent ^.^00:58
alteregoYeah, heh00:58
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* alterego attempts to build mtf00:59
javispedroalterego: which target?00:59
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alteregojust my laptop00:59
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javispedrox86, debian-like?01:00
javispedrowell, tbh my knowledge is rusting a bit already :(01:00
alteregox86_64 ubuntu 10.0401:00
javispedrogood luck :)01:01
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alteregoCan't be that hard? :P01:02
javispedrowhen I first tried it it seemed unsurmountable01:02
javispedroI submited some patchs to make it build on x86_64..01:02
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javispedrooh, all ahve been merged.01:03
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alteregoWill probably take a while though ..01:04
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javispedronaa, 0.01% the time needed to built qt itself.01:04
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pupnikok do you guys let women act like tv show queens?01:05
pupnikdo you actually let women whip you around like they do on the telivision?01:05
DocScrutinizer51tv show queen, what a paradoxon01:05
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pupniki think the television makes women think they can act like children, DocScrutinizer5101:06
alteregopupnik: probably01:06
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DocScrutinizer51~trout pupnik01:06
* infobot slaps pupnik around a bit with a large trout!01:06
DocScrutinizer51~attack pupnik01:06
pupnikwell what do you guys think about carol01:06
spinningcompasspupnik: Carol who?01:07
pupnikmy girl01:07
alteregocarol who?01:07
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing pupnik01:07
pupnikcarol chen01:07
alteregoDon't know her.01:07
alteregoAnyhow, g'night bed time for me ..01:07
pupnikshe got all upset because i chose to fix my furnace instead of drive 320km to pick her up from the airport01:07
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spinningcompasspupnik: Why are you telling us this?01:07
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pupniki think women who act like kids should get outed01:08
trumeeanybody tried/using sygic?01:08
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spinningcompasspupnik: Why are you expressing that opinion in an IRC channel whose purpose is in contemplation and furtherance of Maemo?01:08
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pupnikthis is a dead end channel of old farts01:09
trumeewas wondering whether sygic lets mediaplayer play in the background?01:09
spinningcompasspupnik: You've mistaken this channel for your mother's bedroom. Sorry...01:09
DocScrutinizer51ohnoes, sheduled event: pupnik getting philosophical01:09
pupnikjavispedro: try kotczarny's new osc program! it is fun!  #liqbase01:09
javispedropupnik: linkie?01:10
trumeealso, since sygic runs fullscreen is it possible to goto home screen without invoking hardware keyboard.01:10
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trumeewas wondering whether mediaplayer could skip a track by pressing camera button.01:12
trumeewill be quite useful while running sygic.01:12
trumeeunfortunately cant find a car mount which can take my otterbox. so cant use keyboard if i run sygic maps.01:13
trumeenot many sygic users here i guess.01:13
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javispedrotrumee: no, I do not have sygic. Does it mute the media player really?01:19
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trumeejavispedro, it was a question :)01:20
javispedroah :P01:20
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mavhcgah, now my touchscreen is deadish, damn you n81001:21
trumeejavispedro, but guess it should mute it otherwise voice navigation would be tricky.01:21
jacekowskiwell, using phone as satnav is PITA anyways01:22
jacekowskijust use tomtom01:22
trumeeadvantage is that it is portable01:22
jacekowskitomtom is portable as well01:23
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jacekowskiit's probably even lighter than n90001:23
trumeetomtom i agree is better as sat nav01:23
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jacekowskiand cheaper01:23
trumeebut i carry my N900 in my pocket but dont carry tomtom everywhere i go.01:24
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jacekowskiwell, but why you need voice navigation when you're not in a car?01:24
trumeejacekowski, walking?01:24
jacekowskicar navigation for walking01:25
jacekowskinot very efficient01:25
trumeejacekowski, most satnavs can suggest routes for walking01:26
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trumeeeasier to look into a phone for map than carry a tomtom in a hand01:27
jacekowskinot sygic01:27
trumeeless of embarrassment on the street :p01:27
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javispedrosygic doesn't do routes for walking?01:28
javispedrounbelievable. even ovi maps does.01:29
kerioovi maps does stuff? since when? :O01:29
jacekowskionly advantage of sygic over ovi maps is voice01:29
jacekowskiwhich is why i don't understand why nokia is not planning to add it01:29
javispedroroute recalculation? not requiring stupid internet to search for pois?01:30
javispedros/requiring stupid/stupidly requiring01:30
jacekowskithat's minor problems01:30
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jacekowskieasy to fix01:30
javispedrolike voice.01:30
jacekowskinokia just abandoned it apparently01:30
DocScrutinizer51HAH, voice guidance is sooo simple01:31
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DocScrutinizer51if you don't need a decent just in time guidance01:31
javispedroeven if were über rocket science (which it isn't) they already have it in the form of symbian ovi maps!01:31
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trumeejacekowski, has it been abandoned?01:32
trumeethere was a blog from nokia that they were working on it for maemo.01:33
DocScrutinizer51but when I was involved in developing GPS guidance at Siemens automotive, it wasn't exactly simple to schedule the announcements accordingly01:33
javispedroso sure about that.01:33
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: i mean, they already did it for another platoforms01:33
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jacekowskii'm still tempted to be able to dualboot tomtom software and maemo01:42
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jacekowskipretty much all required stuff is already there in kernel01:43
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DocScrutinizer51@nice idea01:44
DocScrutinizer51a *01:44
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MOUDI installed Cisco VPNC but i cannot find the program in my phone, where can i find it?01:47
trumeejacekowski, wow is that possible?01:48
trumeejacekowski, can tomtom binaries run on N900?01:49
jacekowskiinstruction set is compatible01:49
jacekowskiin terms of binary compatibility01:49
jacekowskibut tomtom is using framebuffer01:49
jacekowskiand n900 gps is connected to rapuyama01:50
jacekowskiso it it wouldn't be plug and play sort of style01:50
jacekowskibut somebody ran it on other linux based pda long time ago01:50
MOUDis there any sql client that can be used and connect to a database via VPN?01:51
jacekowskidepends on database01:52
keriowhy is the fact that's a vpn important?01:53
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MOUDI use cisco VPN to work from home01:54
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kerioa vpn is another network interface01:54
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MOUDbasically what i want to do is... connect to cisco vpn and then run my sql queries using a sql program01:57
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kerioso do that01:58
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Maceranybody know the cyanogen # ?02:03
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Macerwant to se if i can get it installed on a cliq02:03
pupnikwe need an app to track politicians02:03
pupnikanybody who sites one of those cocksuckers enters the location to an openstreetmap database02:04
Macerpupnik: cnn doesnt have an app?02:04
pupnikwe need an app to track every politician02:04
pupnikreal time02:04
Macerlike i said... cnn ;)02:04
pupniklet's do it02:04
pupnikany foss facial recognition software?02:05
pupnikthe submissions would need verification02:05
pupnikfor e.g. politician getting out of car in front of ritz hotel02:05
pupnikyou'd need to be able to flash those satanic lizards02:06
pupnikand then do a shazam-type lookup02:06
pupnikto match their skin mask02:06
pupnikwe could also do a genocide game02:06
pupnikfor maemo02:06
pupnikbecause we just loled at genocide for the past 20 years02:07
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Macermy gf has my n900 and i have her cliq02:08
Macerwhy do i feel like she is driving around in my corvette while i have a pinto?02:09
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MOUDso, how can I do that?02:10
jacekowskipupnik: opencv02:10
jacekowskipupnik: and you could hack cctv network02:11
jacekowskipupnik: or mobile phone network02:11
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jacekowskior oth02:11
pupniki'm up for talks02:12
pupnikthese pompous asses02:12
pupnikwho pretend to have 'authority;02:12
ieatlintMacer: you have the pinto, but i'm not sure i'd call the n900 corvette02:12
pupnikare just the fucktards from grade school02:12
pupnikdo you want to let the stupid kids rule you?02:12
ieatlintlet's call it a delorean... it's got some cool stuff, but ultimately is an underpowered niche joke with no support02:12
jacekowskiieatlint: but it's a time machine02:13
pupnikpompous asses should be made fun of02:13
ieatlintjacekowski: oh yeah, it's also fucking awesome like that02:13
pupniklike in soviet times02:13
pupnikwe are in the same times in the west02:13
pupnikthe usa hires a million people to spy on the world?02:13
pupnikinsane soviet idiocy02:14
jacekowskiyou've chosen them02:14
pupnikit will be self destructive02:14
jacekowskiit's only your fault02:14
jacekowskiand you are only to blame02:14
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ieatlintare you on some sort of meth high?02:14
jacekowskii don't vote02:14
ieatlinthyperactive and paranoid == awesome02:14
jacekowskito protest against government02:14
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pupnikieatlint: i'm way ahead of most idiots in the tyranny analysis situation. and i've been proven right for 17 years.  and nobody disproves anything i say.02:15
pupnikyou're a scared little momma's boy who doesn't want to observe wider flows02:15
jacekowskipupnik: because it's all the same thing02:16
jacekowskipupnik: for 17 or more years02:16
jacekowskijust under different names02:16
ieatlintpupnik: i'm surrounded by people like you far too often, and despite your self-proclaimed clairvoyance of politics and life, the thing you seem most dense to perceive is that the rest of us a don't give a fuck02:16
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pupnikieatlint: you don't understand why people care about maemo02:17
pupnikand please keep showing us how you take the horse thing up your cloaca02:17
ieatlintpeople don't care about maemo :P02:17
SpeedEvilI do.02:17
ieatlintpeople in general don't, i mean02:18
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pupnikwhat would you do if you lived in nazi germany?02:20
pupnik"i would stop the murders!@!!!@!#"02:20
pupnikwell you live in nazi germany now02:20
pupnikmillions are being killed02:20
pupnikand you don't even notice it02:20
pupnikthat's how fucked in the head you all are02:20
pupnikall of ou02:20
ieatlintthat's a loaded question, i don't live in nazi germany and i can't hope to guess how i would handle such circumstances02:20
pupnikyou watched 2 million people be killed02:21
pupnikand said nothing02:21
ieatlinti somehow don't recall that02:21
pupnikthat's this insanity thing02:22
ieatlintprobably because you're talking out of your ass02:22
pupnikno because reality is that bent02:22
asjieatlint: ignore pupnik, he gets drunk and goes off like this once a month or se02:22
pupnikwe just had a genocide02:22
pupnikand we all talked about video games02:22
ieatlintasj: fair enough02:22
DocScrutinizer51pupnik: stop ihsulting people02:22
pupnikwe just had a genocide02:22
pupnikand we all talked about video games02:22
pupnikand the murderers are plotting a new genocide02:23
pupniktime to work on open-source anti-missile projects02:24
pupnikand networked airspace observatoin02:24
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pupnikanything to prevent these motherfuckers from terminator mode02:24
GAN900Wrong number from ANOTHER credit collection angency.02:24
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pupnikstfu GAN90002:24
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* GAN900 will murder Linda Klempz.02:24
pupniktopic is serious02:24
GAN900pupnik, nou.02:25
pupnikyou goin jew on us?02:25
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DocScrutinizer51pupnik: I warned you not to offend or insult people!02:25
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ieatlintwell, now that that's over, i can go back to my genocide02:26
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javispedromid-life crisis, they say. I'm too young to understand it either way.02:28
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: you can hide the banhammer now :)02:28
DocScrutinizer51not sure about it02:28
DocScrutinizer51and it's tedious on N90002:28
DocScrutinizer51to switch02:28
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mavhcmy n810 is dying, what should I replace it with?, around same price, no contract02:38
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SpeedEvilDyning how?02:39
SpeedEvilwlso - where ar eyou?02:39
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mavhctouchscreen is going, battery charging is messed up02:40
oshindon't want to consider an N900?02:41
SpeedEvilAre you sure it's not just needing a nrew battery?02:41
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mavhctoo expensive02:41
SpeedEvilAlso - I think you can get touch panels02:41
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mavhcapparently I could replace the connector cable, but that's tricky, and they're not cheap02:42
oshinwill china make multitouch resistive screen for n900?02:44
SpeedEvilA clone display/screen is easy02:45
SpeedEvilA panel adding new functionality is hard, as it would require actual work.02:45
SpeedEviland drivers02:45
oshini won't want a capacitive screen.02:46
oshini am a painter.02:46
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ShadowJKand a new touchscreen controller02:52
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jpinx-eeepcoshin: I can buy clone n900's here so I'm sure you can et screens03:04
jpinx-eeepcmavhc: what's "too expensive" - I got my 6 month old 2nd-hand N900 for just under US$30003:07
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mavhcthat'd be ok03:07
jpinx-eeepcmavhc: depends what ccountry you're in - look on locally based internet auctions, etc03:09
mavhcI'll check ebay03:10
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javispedroon a desktop file, "Version" is supposed to mean Desktop file spec version03:18
javispedronearly everyone is misusing it (including me)03:18
javispedro(and some Nokians, of course)03:19
javispedroit should be 1.0, not your apps version.03:19
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Termanagood morning03:33
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (vesion) I remarked that a few days ago here03:36
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internetishardhey, why does evopedia load wiki pages at about the same speed as over the web04:01
internetishardI've a whole 13gb database on a microsd04:01
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internetishardalso, how do you choose which app opens which type of file in file manager?04:05
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cehtehevopedia runs a local webserver and has to uncompress every page, quite some overhead for such a little device i guess (and possibly unoptimized programming practices too)04:12
cehtehhey why dont just put the offline wikipedia on a squashfs and done04:12
internetisharddoes evopedia support that?04:13
internetishardYeah, the whole reason I did this was for instant access - I usually have internet acces04:13
cehtehno idea, but the community kernel dies and any browser which can access file:// will do04:13
internetishardhow do I get hildon-thumbnail and all those to not index shit on mmc1?04:13
SpeedEvil~/config/tracker IIRC04:15
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SpeedEvil /tracker/tracker.cfg04:15
SpeedEvil# List of directory roots NOT to index and NOT to watch (separator=;)04:16
internetishardwhere is /tracker?04:17
SpeedEvil /home/user/.config/tracker/...04:19
DocScrutinizerwhereis, err find /home -name '*tracker*'04:19
internetishardthanks, I just did /media/mmc1/ - all of it04:23
internetishardDocScrutinizer, how would you recommend I speed up evopedia?04:23
internetishardI've the latest wiki dump of 12gb from the evopedia site04:23
DocScrutinizersorry, no idea04:23
DocScrutinizercheckout wikireader source, somewhere in ... err forgot.04:24
DocScrutinizerOpenmoko wikireader04:24
DocScrutinizermight have some solutions04:24
internetishardwell is fennec normally slow?04:25
internetishardI mean, opera usually seems a lot faster.. there seems to be some unnecessary waiting before a page loads04:26
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cehtehlets try this squashfs idea :)04:27
* cehteh thinks evopedia is dead slow too04:27
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cehteh eta 12m 36s ...04:28
cehtehmhm :)04:28
cehtehthe wikipedia server is a bit slow :P04:29
internetishardSorry, I don't completely follow04:29
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internetishardIt looks like evopedia has squashfs support04:29
internetishard I'm trying to decipher from this04:30
internetishardcehteh, which wiki dump did you get? It seems like they used to be in different formats, but mine is just a bunch of .dat files adding up to 13gb04:31
cehtehack here too04:32
cehtehi just followed the evopedia instructions04:32
internetishardI feel newb04:32
cehtehbut i am now getting a 7z dump from and convert that to squashfs04:32
internetishardI mean, I think the hardware should be able to handle it since I open some pretty big (20mb+) pdfs seemingly instantly04:32
cehtehthe 7z is 3.2GB ... doing that on the server for a try04:32
cehtehi can make the squashfs available when this experiment works04:33
cehteh(no need for evopedia then :P)04:33
internetishardwhat compression is the format we're using?04:33
cehtehi dont know what evopedia uses04:33
internetishardevopedia has some cool shit though, it indexes stuff in a way that makes searching quick... it just cant open the pages quick (how do we know this isn't fennec's fault?)04:34
cehtehneither exactly what squashfs uses, but in my experiments it turned out compressing quite well04:34
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cehtehwell, will take 15 minutes .. downloading 3.2gb is a bit slow :P04:38
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internetishardk, what do you think about fennec causing the slowness?04:43
cehtehguess thats reasonable :P04:46
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cehtehtried microb instead? well here microb with evopedia isnt really fast either04:46
cehtehok i have the dump, unpacking, repacking to a squashfs .. will take a bit too :P04:48
trip0has anyone built anything against qt4-experiemental?04:54
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trip0this qt 4.7 "experimental" stuff is kinda unnecessary.  name it the same as the 4.6.x packages and let them get updated05:12
cehtehbah 7z is slow :P05:15
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javispedrofrom reading the accelerometer driver, it already uses interrupts for something05:54
rasterDocScrutinizer51:  DOC!!!05:54
DocScrutinizer51didn't I say that?05:54
DocScrutinizer51raster o/05:55
DocScrutinizer51javispedro: what it doesn't use is the highpass filter05:55
DocScrutinizer51raster: too much trouble with real life05:55
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rasternot real life05:58
* raster kicks real life in the nuts05:58
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internetishardany success cehteh?06:35
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cehtehdoing other things, no time06:36
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keriowhere's MNZ :(09:18
keriomy pulseaudio sucks, i have to let out my anger at someone09:19
TermanaWhy MNZ?09:19
TermanaThere is plenty of others that can be forsaken.09:20
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PontusOhmanIf I can't find the wireless-tools and python-location in the extras-devel... Where to get them?09:43
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tekojoanyone have a scratchbox install running?10:03
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tekojocould someone run an apt-get update?10:05
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rmrfchiktekojo: apt-get update works fine11:17
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tekojormrfchik: thanks11:22
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RST38hAh, PR1.3.11:44
fralsomg what where?!11:45
djszapidoes one have idea why 'ar' binary is not linked dynamically agaisnt libbfd on armv7 ?11:45
Corsachmhm, will have to wait this evening :)11:45
djszapi* against11:46
zogg__RST38h not out yet11:46
infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever11:47
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mece"Latest software release for Nokia N900 is 20.2010.36-2"11:48
ZogGmece - so?11:48
ZogGmece it's test release11:48
ZogGand the most trustfull info is dev-nokia11:48
mecewhy would they mention a test release on the official support page?11:48
mecethat makes no sense11:48
ZogGmece likethose thing never happened11:48
ZogGwhy would they mention the release of the 32 week when it's 42 week now?11:49
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ZogGis maemo libfkash only in /usr/lib/browser/plugins?11:49
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timeless_mbpZogG: what's libfkash?11:51
ZogGtimeless_mbp just replaced with the one from android11:52
ZogGnt working =)11:52
meceZogG, well it says 36 there, and they would not release this weeks build this week, since that would not have been tested yet. And uk users got pr1.2 over ssu before it appeared on tablets-dev. So both points are null and void. Doesn't mean pr1.3 is out though.11:52
timeless_mbpmece: fwiw, releases do end up having rather old numbers11:52
ZogGmece let's pray for best, maybe they are pissed of leaked release?11:52
johnxtablets-dev has historically gotten releases later, quite a bit of the time11:52
mecetimeless_mbp, that's what I meant.11:53
ZogGcause if it's the same as the leaked one - it's not that cool =(11:53
timeless_mbp36-2 is the right release though11:53
timeless_mbpso it should be pr1.311:53
X-FadeThere are always 3 places where updates are released.11:53
timeless_mbpit's what i've been running for a while11:53
ZogGX-Fade on my phone, yours and nokia lab?11:53
mecetimeless_mbp, thanks11:53
X-FadeFor windows flasher on, for linux on tablets-dev and SSU.11:53
ZogGbut than it means leaked one was final pr1.3?11:54
ZogGthat is not sweet =(11:54
timeless_mbpZogG: if you call leaking it to a leak11:54
ZogG1)there were more bugfixes after11:54
* timeless_mbp finds that to be an amusing way to leak something11:54
mecetimeless_mbp: well it's been out on teh intertubes for a couple of weeks11:54
timeless_mbpZogG: you'd rather people wait *another* two months?11:54
ZogGtimeless_mbp, maybe Nokia got it from forum with leaked one and released it?11:55
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ZogGtimeless_mbp i would wait for better release11:55
timeless_mbpyou're nuts11:55
ZogGdidn't waited so much before someone mentioned it would be released11:55
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ZogGtimeless_mbp, it might be last release, so i rather wait11:55
* timeless_mbp can't follow the logic11:55
* mece neither11:56
timeless_mbpif 36-2 is the last release, why wait?11:56
timeless_mbpanyway, i've been happy w/ 36-2 for a while now11:56
asj__wow 36-2 eh? woudda thought it wouldn't take that long to get through qa11:56
timeless_mbpit isn't perfect certainly, and there are bugs i'd like to see fixed11:56
ZogGtimeless_mbp because i would like to have last release with as much improves as i can11:56
ZogGso i would wait for 77-2 =)11:56
johnxasj__, anyone who follows Nokia's previous releaes :)11:56
timeless_mbpyou do realize that 53 is the max number, right?11:57
timeless_mbpit's a week number11:57
timeless_mbpranging from 00, 0 .. 5311:57
timeless_mbpdon't ask how 0 and 00 differ11:57
ZogG<timeless_mbp> anyway, i've been happy w/ 36-2 for a while now // there would be no later, that's my point11:57
ZogGtimeless_mbp didn't know that anyway  want 7711:57
mecejohnx, well pr1.2 was week 19 and released week 2211:57
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ZogGi have a question11:58
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ZogGin setting menu in about thing, i got n900 version - unknown11:58
ZogGwhy would it be ? =)11:58
asj__mece: well except it was probably supposed to be wk12 ;)11:58
timeless_mbpZogG: there are some files it uses to calculate that11:58
timeless_mbpif they're unhappy, it'll say that11:58
johnx7 weeks is probably the upper end of the spectrum. might be a sign that they want it to be right so they don't have to go back ...11:58
* timeless_mbp can't remember if one of them is the pr metapackage11:58
VladNistor-ofZogG, you're overclocking :)11:59
mecejohnx, yep11:59
timeless_mbpjohnx: 42-36 = 6, not 7, right?11:59
ZogGVladNistor-of nope - i don't =)11:59
johnxtimeless,  isn't it week 43?11:59
timeless_mbpoh brother11:59
timeless_mbpjohnx: i wouldn't know12:00
* timeless_mbp doesn't use week numbers12:00
VladNistor-ofZogG, you have a custom kernel then probably12:00
johnxdate '+%W'12:00
ZogGit's the last release for us12:00
timeless_mbpdo i look like a Finn?12:00
ZogGmakes me sad12:00
Corsactimeless_mbp: you're an ical user?12:00
ZogGVladNistor-of don't think so12:00
timeless_mbpCorsac: i'm mostly a gCal user i suppose12:00
timeless_mbpand the maemo calendar12:00
VladNistor-ofthe custom kernel is the only reason for missing version number in about I know of12:00
ZogGdamn why i can't update cause of libsdl-gfx1.2-412:01
RST38hZogG: So let me clarify, the official pr1.3 is the same as the leaked pr1.3? :)12:01
RST38hmoo johnx12:01
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johnxm00f RST38h12:01
ZogGRST38h are you asking me? as the dates says - it s =(12:02
crashanddietimeless_mbp, you're a Maquis -- US guerilla infiltrated inside the European persona.12:02
meceI guess I need to reinstall my original hildon-desktop to be able to upgrade normally.12:02
RST38hZogG: I see.12:02
* VladNistor-of doubts the leaked version is the same as pr1.3 will be12:02
meceZogG, RST38h is telling you. VladNistor-of, doubting doesn't make it less so.12:03
timeless_mbpVladNistor-of: leaks don't exist12:03
timeless_mbpbut the thing on the nokia page which claims that 36-2 is real shouldn't be lying12:03
meceI'm gonna take a leak right now.12:03
VladNistor-ofmece, if it were ready, they would have no reason to keep it back.12:03
timeless_mbpnow that there's a real thing out there, you're free to use it12:03
meceVladNistor-of, it was in QA.12:04
timeless_mbpVladNistor-of: eh?12:04
timeless_mbpimages are made12:04
timeless_mbpthen they're tested12:04
timeless_mbpthen after basic testing, they go to other testing12:04
timeless_mbpthen they go to wider testing12:04
timeless_mbpthen they go to management to get release approval12:04
timeless_mbpthen they go to you12:04
meceVladNistor-of, what timeless_mbp said.12:04
RST38hthen everyone switches to Android.12:04
Corsacthen you find bugs12:04
sp3000I thought there was a maze there somewhere12:04
VladNistor-ofi dunno how Nokia does it, but I believe packages are tested, not images12:05
Corsacthen you're eaten by a grue12:05
RST38hActually, it probably happens somewhere between step #2 and step #312:05
timeless_mbpVladNistor-of: we test images12:05
timeless_mbpnot packages12:05
timeless_mbpRST38h: i think closer to step #112:05
timeless_mbpbut whatever floats your boat12:05
VladNistor-ofmy bad then12:05
timeless_mbpsp3000: the maze is somewhere between steps 4 and 512:05
timeless_mbpVladNistor-of: that's "we" being the entire group12:06
timeless_mbpindividual teams which make individual packages might test individual packages12:06
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timeless_mbpbut even that is relatively unlikely12:06
KhertanHello all !12:06
timeless_mbpthe browser team doesn't ship one package, we might ship ~1012:06
timeless_mbpso we'd test our *packages* as a set12:06
timeless_mbpi'm actually not sure i know of *any* teams which ship only one package12:06
VladNistor-ofBut if you test an image and see problems you'll make a new one with fixes, so that's why i said that if pr1.3 would be different from the particular image "leaked"12:07
timeless_mbpperhaps the kernel team? but even they need to test against an image to ensure they haven't broken too many other packages12:07
timeless_mbpif we see problems, we file bugs12:07
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timeless_mbpwhether or not we make fixes is a management decision12:07
meceI guess it depends on if the bug is a blocker12:08
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timeless_mbpheck, we might make fixes to our local packages, but those changes can be excluded if management doesn't want them12:08
ZogGlol argued with guy about harm of symlink use flag for kernel in gentoo, after long arguing i just got answer that he updates kernel more often than system =)12:08
Khertantimeless_mbp, ah ... the management ....12:08
johnxaaand, is down12:09
johnxfun times12:09
timeless_mbpKhertan: you're noticing a pattern?12:09
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VladNistor-ofis 1.3 out now or why are we talking about it again? :))12:10
meceanyway the "leaked" is 20.2010.36-2, as is pr1.3. It's leaked because it was in the hands of end users before it was done testing. It has nothing to do with the results of the testing12:10
johnxVladNistor-of, I'd point you to an interesting talk.m.o thread, but t.m.o is down ...12:10
timeless_mbpVladNistor-of:  according to, it's out12:10
Khertantimeless_mbp, hum .... i'm currently working on implementing a unspecified feature before fixing critical bugs in on of our software because our management team say that fixing bug doesn't bring money12:10
hahloleaks remains me wikileaks, does techno companies employees also leak there or is it only politics :)12:10
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Khertanso yes ... it s about the same pattern everywhere :)12:11
timeless_mbpKhertan: business as usual?12:11
RobbieThe1stYea. *sigh*12:11
Khertantimeless_mbp, exactly :)12:11
meceVladNistor-of, apparently you can install it with the software updater from windows. Or so says nokia support here:
johnxKhertan, pattern? like a design pattern?12:11
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VladNistor-ofthanks, johnx, timeless mbp12:11
timeless_mbpmece: someone should try using that in Wine12:11
* timeless_mbp wants to know if it works12:11
meceboyer-moore pattern matching12:11
johnxdesign pattern #134: sneak bug fixes into feature releases to get them past management12:12
Khertanjohnx :)12:12
RST38hZogG: Just confirms that Gentoo is for serial kernel compilers12:14
johnxRST38h, I think we should just classify it as a mental health disorder: Constant Kernel re-Compile Syndrome (CKCS)12:15
timeless_mbpRST38h: but i want to meet parallel kernel compilers!12:15
crashanddieis "serial kernel compilers" like "serial killer" but in the geek world?12:15
crashanddie"Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you."12:15
johnxcrashanddie, yes. a lot of us read slashdot :)12:16
ZogGeveryone is checkin' for pr1.3 as the whole tmo is lagging?12:16
VladNistor-ofno over-the-air update yet it seems.12:16
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johnxVladNistor-of, some people got it, apparently12:16
crashanddiejohnx, well, as being a +5 funny, I'm pretty sure a google of that sentence points to /. anyway :)12:16
crashanddiejohnx, "But that AC was me!"12:16
VladNistor-ofi just updated the package list with fapman12:17
jacekowskifap fap fap12:17
johnxVladNistor-of, keep in mind that Nokia's repository servers use geo-DNS12:17
johnx... to route you to an akamai cache near you12:17
johnxsome will take longer to update than others12:18
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X-FadeShouldn't be more than an hour though.12:18
crashanddieso 1.3 is actually released?12:18
crashanddieworth putting in the topic?12:18
crashanddiechangelog about somewhere?12:18
X-FadeThere is no SSU nor linux flashable one out yet.12:18
ZogGRST38h just confirms that idiots are out there =)12:18
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VladNistor-ofyeah, it shoulnd't take to long. I'm in Romania btw, so no joy here12:19
ZogGVladNistor-of i'm in israel no joy here as well12:19
crashanddieZogG, "either"12:19
johnx"shouldn't" and "won't" aren't the same thing :)12:19
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johnxsame as "theory" and "practice"12:19
* VladNistor-of agrees12:20
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie12:20
ZogGit bugs me that there is not jerusalem or any israel city timezone when you config n900 for the first time in the time zone lists12:20
timeless_mbpZogG:  bah12:20
*** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | | | PR1.3 being released slowly but surely. Be patient."12:20
*** crashanddie sets mode: -o crashanddie12:20
timeless_mbpit bugs me that i can't pick HEL as my timezone and keep my language/region as NAM12:20
ZogGyou have to go to map thing to set it =(12:20
alteregoslowely but surely?12:21
kerioand what's NAM?12:21
timeless_mbpHELsinking NorthAMerica12:21
infobottimeless_mbp meant: HELsinkini NorthAMerica12:21
crashanddie"Hell sinking"?12:21
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: freudian slip?12:21
KhertanNuclear Ammunition Machine12:21
crashanddietimeless_mbp, or maybe you're watching fat chick porn? "Hell's Bikini?"12:22
timeless_mbpi presume i don't want to know?12:22
ZogGcrashanddie \o/12:22
Khertanhi crashanddie  :)12:22
crashanddieHey Khertan12:22
Corsacit might be a bit cold to be in bikini in helsinki though12:22
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ZogGso if it's out there where is it12:22
alteregoIs tmo okay?12:22
ZogGdamn =)12:22
Corsac(and in slip too)12:22
alteregoCan't seem to access it12:22
johnxalterego, down for me as well (also down for
Khertantimeless_mbp, i ve a question for you ... i ve try qtwebkit on n900 it seems faster than microb ... what is the main diff between the both engine ?12:23
timeless_mbpKhertan:  age?12:24
alteregojohnx: thanks :)12:24
Khertantimeless_mbp, age ?12:24
timeless_mbpor probably about 24 months to be more precise12:24
alteregoAlways good to know it's not just me12:24
ZogGis it me or TMO is down?12:24
timeless_mbpKhertan: did you branch qtwebkit based on when microb branched from mozilla-central?12:24
Khertantimeless_mbp, it s not a reason firefox on n900 is worst :)12:24
timeless_mbpor did you take one from roughly today?12:24
sp3000hell sin keep?12:24
Khertantimeless_mbp, yep on my n800 webkit was faster ... but with a poor render :)12:25
MyrttiDocScrutinizer51: wtf? [20:05] < DocScrutinizer> Myrtti: now what alarm is due for that?12:25
sp3000Khertan: like links! :D12:25
timeless_mbpKhertan: anyway, ask a stupid question, get the answer you get12:25
timeless_mbptake it or leave it12:25
keriodillo ftfw12:25
Khertantimeless_mbp, but i think my question wasn't well explain :)12:26
kerioi should tell lcuk to port dillo to liqbase12:26
timeless_mbpi think that qualifies as stupid, yes12:26
keriolcuk: port dillo to liqbase12:26
Khertantimeless_mbp, the question was more about the main tech diff between gecko and webkit12:26
Khertantimeless_mbp, you can qualify it as stupid, it s your right :)12:26
timeless_mbpKhertan: http://
* timeless_mbp kicks chrome for being stupid12:27
keriostupid but fast!12:27
Khertanbut stupid12:27
keriobut fast!12:27
timeless_mbpkerio: running into a wall fast doesn't help me12:27
kerioif you're fast enough, you break the wall12:27
johnxKhertan, totally different codebase, with very different goals (originally), started at different times, by different people, in different environments12:27
alteregotmo back up now12:28
timeless_mbpjohnx: fwiw, webkit was actually forked from khtml by mozilla engineers12:28
timeless_mbp(well netscape engineers who had been working on gecko and were hired by apple to make webkit)12:28
sp3000it's all a grand conspiracy really12:28
timeless_mbpanyway, microb makes certain additional tradeoffs12:28
johnxtimeless_mbp, I was thinking KHTML vs Netscape though :)12:28
timeless_mbpjohnx: i suspected you might have been12:29
ZogGgood news12:29
alteregoWhy isn't 1.3 on tablets-dev if it's been released?12:29
timeless_mbpalterego: that's a bannable question12:29
johnxalterego, sometimes tablets-dev is behind the and even the SSU release12:29
timeless_mbpthere are a bunch of different places where releases have to go12:29
alteregoNo manual download then?12:30
johnxnot yet12:30
timeless_mbpyou can wait a few hours12:30
timeless_mbpit should be there by Wednesday :)12:30
alteregoYeah, I know :)12:30
timeless_mbpyou've been waiting 2 months12:30
timeless_mbpwhat's another 2 days?12:30
johnxor install a windows VM, and use the Nokia updater12:30
* timeless_mbp shakes head12:30
alteregoWaiting? Meh :P12:30
* johnx flips back to vmware player12:30
timeless_mbp… end users… no sense of scale12:30
alteregoI'm just bored and want something to do :P12:30
timeless_mbp /perspective12:30
timeless_mbpalterego: try Wine12:31
timeless_mbplemme know if it works12:31
alteregoHeh, wine on n900.12:31
timeless_mbpnote that you only need to convince the updater to *download* the image12:31
ZogGDeaDBeeF hitted maemo12:31
timeless_mbpnot flash it12:31
ZogGRST38h, ^12:31
thpKhertan: i can't login to using Khweeteur 0.0.37 - are you aware of this issue?12:31
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sivanggood morning eerybody12:32
* sivang wonders if Harmattan apps development can happen on the 1.3 SDK upgrade12:32
Khertanthp,  yep12:32
Khertanthis ... grrr oauth is full of bugs12:32
sivanghey timeless_mbp12:32
sivangtimeless_mbp: 'sup?12:32
alteregosivang: should do, though you may need the harmattan ui framework12:32
timeless_mbppoking hg12:32
Khertanthp, there is some problem with datetime when loggin12:33
RST38hZogG: Not until they maemoize it.12:33
Khertanthp, sometime you have less than 5s to enter the token and validate ti12:33
thpKhertan: ugh.. that does not really work right now with having to select it, etc..12:33
ZogGRST38h what you mean maemoize it?12:33
sivangalterego:I guess it will be released soon into sb12:33
thpmaybe you are using the machine-readable oauth api and that one has this time limit?12:33
ZogGRST38h it's port optified as i understand12:34
RST38hZogG: That menu bar basically saus "I know how to compile stuff under Linux but I cannot code"12:34
thpKhertan: also, maybe you can use QtWebKit inside your app to auto-grab the token once its displayed?12:34
sivangtimeless_mbp: ah, on what code?12:34
sivanghey thp :)12:34
Khertanthp, yep this is why i m playing currently with qtwebkit :)12:34
thpsivang: hey12:34
crashanddieZogG, how weird, that screenshots shows one fucked-up font. Did you break your device?12:34
ZogGRST38h, it even has portrait mode - what are you talikng =)12:34
KhertanHarmattan <<< it s not a dead project ?12:34
timeless_mbpsivang: hg-crew12:34
ZogGcrashanddie it's not mine =)12:35
petteriRST38h: i can code :D12:35
crashanddiepetteri, no, you can't.12:35
petteripatches are wellcome12:35
VladNistor-offorum is back12:36
sivangcrashanddie: booo12:36
ZogGpetteri is it your code?12:36
ZogGpetteri is it your port*12:36
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TermanaDesireAnyone that knows about disassembly of the n900 around?12:37
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TermanaDesireSo everyone disappears...12:37
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petteriZogG: I just compiled it in scratchbox12:38
kerioTermanaDesire: i know for a fact DocScrutinizer broke his n900 while disassembling it12:38
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kerioand he's an EE12:38
petteri, but will update it later when I have time12:38
kerioso that should either question his ability as a EE, or the feasibility of disassembling the N90012:38
pettericrashanddie: please send patches if you have problems with the port12:38
kerioor both, i guess12:38
kerioDocScrutinizer: ;)12:39
crashanddiepetteri, I don't use your app :)12:39
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TermanaDesirekerio: mine won't turn on already so I'm not so worried about breaking it12:39
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kerioi recommend nokia care12:39
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TermanaDesireI just want to open it and stab the board12:40
pettericrashanddie: ok12:40
thpKhertan: great, khweeteur is one of the most promising twitter apps on the n900, so i'd love to use it with as well12:40
keriodo that from the outside12:40
kerio*way* more satisfying12:40
thp(only problem is I might be bugging you with feature requests like merging and posts that are the same once it starts working :p)12:40
TermanaDesirekerio: nokia care will do nothing it's been in water12:40
kerioof course it will12:40
kerioif you give them money12:40
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kerioless money than you'd need to buy another one12:40
sivanghow do phones get into water?12:41
crashanddieby dropping them over the loo12:41
Khertanthp, :) it s a good idea :)12:41
sivangcrashanddie: that happend to me once with a stupid samsung of my terrible ex,12:41
crashanddiecause or effect?12:42
TermanaDesireNot by the loo for me12:42
ZogGpetteri so announce it on forums and push it to repos?12:42
sivangcrashanddie: heh12:42
Khertanthp, the main problem i have with the bugs ... is that i cannot reproduce it with my account12:42
TermanaDesireMy little brother dunked it while I slept12:42
sivangcrashanddie: since then I'm prefer to die than to go over the toilet with my N90012:42
crashanddieI guess that's one good thing for the iPad12:42
crashanddieit doesn't fit in the bowl12:42
TermanaDesireReminder : don't keep phones in your pocket with little kids12:42
timeless_mbppetteri: get rid of the menubar12:43
Khertancrashanddie, mouarf !12:43
petteriZogG: I will do it later when it is ready12:43
petterimore ready :)12:43
crashanddieKhertan, I helped out a friend on his shitty django website12:43
crashanddieI asked for an iPad as payment12:43
timeless_mbp1. get rid of the menubar12:43
timeless_mbp2. switch to outlook style 2 lines per message = 2 lines per track12:43
Khertancrashanddie, and now ... what you will do with it ?12:44
timeless_mbp3. don't chop off duration like that12:44
TermanaDesireDocScrutinizer: ping12:44
crashanddieKhertan, dunno, as I said when it was announced, keep it in the living room for couch-surfing while watching the news or sitting next to gf while watching movie?12:44
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petteritimeless_mbp: it requires quite a lot of work. It is mostly straight recompile in scratchbox. The GUI is the same as it is the desktop version. I have not done anythin else than added rotation support12:44
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timeless_mbp4. don't use a tiny volume triangle. show volume as a percentage or something and when tapped then show a 400+px wide widget12:44
timeless_mbp5. don't use a button border to indicate active state12:45
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timeless_mbpanyway, that's enough of a basic list :)12:45
Khertancrashanddie, and you think that you will have hand free while watching movie with gf ?12:45
crashanddieKhertan, yeah, she's not too sticky12:46
petteritimeless_mbp: thanks for the tips12:46
timeless_mbpfwiw, i'd probably do Album, Track, Duration on one line. and Playing, Title on the next12:46
Khertancrashanddie, lol12:46
timeless_mbpactually, probably put the title line above the artist line12:46
timeless_mbppetteri: also, does it make sense to show the artist in the title area?12:47
timeless_mbpi'd imagine the title is more useful12:47
timeless_mbp6. ^12:48
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crashanddie"Museum offers night on a magic mushroom: Visitors to Berlin's Museum for Contemporary Art can book themselves a night in an installation which includes a floating hotel room on a platform shaped like a mushroom at a cost of 1,000 euros"12:48
crashanddieI was hoping for another kind of magic mushroom :(12:49
sivangcrashanddie: hehe12:49
sivangcrashanddie: you shoudl come here, or go to India :)12:49
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: does it include some padded surface to fall off onto?12:49
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crashanddieOh hang on12:52
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crashanddieAnyone fancy buying a human head? just 22000 euros:
Khertana palm game natively (or near) on maemo :)12:54
lcukKhertan, your bug tracker has a bug12:54
lcukkathy and I tried filing a bug on it on sunday morning12:55
Khertanlcuk, ?12:55
Khertanoh really ?12:55
Khertanwhat s the problem ?12:55
lcukand it would not accept that and kept saying the math question was wrong12:55
lcukand I know it was early, but we tried multiple times12:55
lcukkathy has a screenshot12:55
lcukwe were filing something based on a bug in khweeteur12:55
Khertanlcuk, didn't have any problem12:59
RST38hHow can I check for PR1.3 availability from a desktop browser? Is there a URL?12:59
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tybolltRST38h: please; no trolling13:00
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YabbaHello, is today d-day for pr1.3? Because I install something called 20.2010.36-2 right now...13:01
lcukKhertan, now try it from n900 :P13:01
PontusOhmanYabba: > Yeah, that's the new FW for N90013:02
tybolltseriously, 1.3 today?13:02
Khertanlcuk, ah ...13:02
Khertanlcuk, with microb ?13:02
sivangit is?13:02
tybolltpontus: Hej! Verkligen, 1.3 idag?13:02
Khertanlcuk, or ff13:02
sivangno announcment nothing?13:02
tybolltsomeone please; a changelog for 1.3?13:02
lcukKhertan, microb13:02
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ZogGRST38h check the livepr1.3.org13:03
RST38htybollt: What trolling???13:03
RST38hZogG: No, seriously, what is the URL for the repository?13:04
lcukKhertan, get hold of kathy, she has screenshot of both the bug report and actual problem we were trying to highlight13:04
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tybolltRST38h: well, my apaologies then... :-S13:04
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Khertanlcuk, lol... i didn't have any problem13:05
Khertanmaybe it s related to something else13:05
PontusOhmanTake a look here:
KhertanKathy never come on irc, isn't it ?13:06
PontusOhmanLatest software release for Nokia N900 is 20.2010.36-2 *13:06
RST38hComes here every now and then13:06
tybolltKhertan: she does visit here yes, however, not very often.13:06
PontusOhmantybollt: > Du har ju maemosweden and meegosweden att hänga i också om du vill ;)13:06
timeless_mbpen-* please :)13:07
tybolltPontusOhman: oh fan, visste inte :-o13:07
tybollttimeless_mbp: jajaja13:08
tybollttimeless_mbp: changelog, please?13:08
* tybollt pokes timeless_mbp w/ a rusty fork13:08
X-Fadetybollt: andre will probably publish it when he has time.13:09
Milhousemaemo and meego forum infra seems unable to cope with load today...13:09
timeless_mbptybollt: yeah, i'll leave it to andre13:09
tybolltX-Fade: you're in the committee right? Can't you give him a gentle nudge? :)13:09
Milhousetoo much excitement, clearly.13:09
timeless_mbptybollt: not much point, it's pretty safe to assume he'll do it13:10
X-Fadetybollt: He's not online, so can't do that ;)13:10
timeless_mbpa nudge is only worth doing if it doesn't arrive w/in a week13:10
Khertanarg ... it s hard to test my package with all this timeout13:10
tybolltA release w/out a changelog is like a hot fudge sundae ... w/out the hot fudge... :-S13:10
timeless_mbphe's either already working on it, in which case nudging is just annoying13:10
Milhouse"Nokia don't do changelogs" - always been the case with maemo, although the last release wasn't too bad I have to admit.13:11
timeless_mbpor has something "much" more important he's working on, in which case the nudge would have to be ignored anyway and is thus both bothersome and counterproductive13:11
jacekowskihmm, with lirc13:11
tybolltthe point is; annoy the man until he releases it13:11
jacekowskihave anybody tried to controll air conditioning?13:11
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FauxFauxlirc is so terrible. :s13:11
tybolltjacek: Say what?13:11
timeless_mbpjacekowski: beyond turning the knob to control "cooling", adjusting a target temperature on a thermostat, or simply turning it on / off?13:11
Venemo_N810hi guys13:12
timeless_mbpMilhouse: err13:12
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: i just want to use my phone instead of remote13:12
timeless_mbpthere have been changelogs for maemo for a long time13:12
timeless_mbpjacekowski: x10?13:12
sp3000also, food13:12
timeless_mbpsp3000: now? i'm planning to do it ~2pm :(13:12
Milhousetimeless: it's been discussed often and Nokia/Maemo have always been reluctant to produce detailed changelogs. The situation has improved under Andre, but only to the extent of pulling out the public bug fixes13:13
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timeless_mbptybollt: a release w/o a changelog is like a hot fudge sunday w/o the detailed ingredient list indicating exactly how much fat each sprinkle adds13:13
Milhousetimeless: in the early days there were no changelogs, mind you everything used to change from one release to the next so hardly surprising.13:13
timeless_mbpMilhouse: i did the browser release notes around maemo3 iirc13:14
timeless_mbpor maemo413:14
timeless_mbpi know people appreciated them, but the reality is that the source input is garbage13:14
timeless_mbpwhich is ironic when you consider that maemo process requires *everything* go into a debian/changelog file13:14
Milhousetimeless: yeah, but I'm talking about the whole system, not just one app (thanks btw)13:14
alteregoCan we start speculating about 1.4 now?13:15
alteregoQt 4.8?13:15
timeless_mbpthe problem is that the stuff that went into those debian/changelog files by virtue of being mandatory was mostly junk to satisfy a process requirement13:15
Venemo_N810timeless, what do you mean by the source input is garbage?13:15
timeless_mbpalterego: it Qt 4.8 is needed for the MeeGo to be used in some hypothetical Nokia MeeGo first offering13:15
Milhousetimeless: yep, there was public criticism of some entries - there may even be a bug entry for it13:15
Venemo_N810alterego, why do you ask?13:16
Khertanalterego, before you should make a thread that pr1.3 didn't bring new feature and say that nokia ignore you and that you sell your device13:16
timeless_mbpthen it's a reasonable bet on Qt 4.813:16
timeless_mbpotoh, if 4.8 won't be in that first offering, it's reasonable to bet against it13:16
Milhousewondering if a full battery is sufficient to install PR1.3... very slow update process.13:16
ShadowJKCould you guys stop releasing software updates, that cesspool by the name of t.m.o. is not responding :/13:16
timeless_mbpShadowJK: lol13:16
alteregoKhertan: noted, I'll also mention at how MeeGo is the bastard son of intel and nokia and will never see the ligght of day, hahah13:16
Milhouset.m.o and forum.meego have both gone down - same infra. whoops. :)13:16
tybollttimeless_mbp: boo :P13:17
ShadowJKI should call Nokia Care and see if they've fixed my N900 yet13:17
MilhouseIs Qt 4.7 in PR1.3?13:17
becksbtw, is unreachable ?13:17
Khertanso this is really PR1.3 ? with Qt 4.7 ?13:17
Venemo_N810what, 1.3 has been released for real?13:17
Milhousebecks: yep, as is the meego forum.13:17
timeless_mbpbecks: only mentioned 10 times in the last 5mins13:17
beckstimeless_mbp: sorry...13:17
tybolltbecks: yeah, the kiddies are probably jizzing their pants over this release13:17
beckstybollt: lol13:17
sp3000oh just put in the topic already ;)13:18
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phrykI wonder what would happen, if google started to completely ignore all icmp packets from one day to the other…13:20
ShadowJKwould that be your 20% project at google?13:20
phrykmy what?13:21
ShadowJKgoogle employees have one day per week to work on their own random projects13:21
phrykoh god13:21
phrykone reason more to work for google13:22
crashanddieworking at Google must suck ass13:22
ZogGi heard there is project googlenet13:22
Venemo_N810and if it is good enough, it'll be productized13:22
phrykI am thinking about doing that anyways13:22
phrykcrashanddie: why that?13:22
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ZogGand googlenoid13:22
Venemo_N810like gmail13:22
phrykwork environment at google is pure awesome13:22
crashanddieDid an interview for them, the only thing they showed me for 2 hours was "Look, FREE CAFETERIA! Look, FREE GYM! Look, FREE BILLIARD! Look, FREE WII!"13:23
xnt14Is down for anyone?13:23
crashanddieWhen asked if I could see the actual work spaces, they said "Well you'll have plenty of time to see those if you pass the interviews"13:23
sivangcrashanddie: they asked me mind boogling python question to try and use python as c, not like!13:23
phrykcrashanddie: lol13:23
Milhousexnt14: no works for me, what's the problem? ;-)13:23
sivangxnt14: not for the faint of heart :)13:23
ZogGKhertan i have 11 only13:24
Khertan11 ?13:24
xnt14Milhouse, sivang: it gives me "connection reset"13:24
ZogGand dist-upgrade doesn't work of dependies problem or something13:24
KhertanZogG, ah yes i ve some depandancy problem :)13:24
ZogGKhertan about this one
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crashanddieGoogle these days is more of a sect than a company.13:25
Khertanbut this was just to see which package are updated13:25
ZogGKhertan pr1.3?13:25
KhertanZogG, it seem's13:25
KhertanZogG, my nit is downloading13:26
Khertanwill see13:26
ZogGi didn't get it yet13:26
xnt14nevermind, it loaded now. :)13:26
Venemo_N810is there a changelog?13:26
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Termanacrashanddie, like apple?13:28
Khertanlol didn't install ask for pc suite13:28
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danielwilmsVenemo_N810: hey, the changelog is here:
Venemo_N810danielwilms, thx13:30
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lardmanis this OTA? We won't need a specific image/components for the pre-summit devices?13:30
KhertanYouhou ! Qt4.713:30
Khertani got an OTA13:31
Khertanbut ask for pcsuite13:31
Khertani don't want to flash13:31
Khertanso trying to made some place to see13:31
Venemo_N810danielwilms, this is for the sdk, right?13:31
Milhousegetting errors from the Opera repository after the upgrade - 404 not found, so will disable.13:35
Venemo_N810danielwilms, is there one for the device?13:35
ZogGMilhousecause it changed to pr1.3 from pr1.3 ?13:36
danielwilmsVenemo_N810: yep, that's for the SDK13:37
Milhouseyeah, looks like 1-3 has been appended13:37
danielwilmsfor the device I don't know, but I can try to figure out13:37
X-FadeInteresting new packages added are: dsme-dev dsme-thermalobject-surface libqt4-declarative python-xcbgen qt4-declarative-qmlviewer13:38
X-FadeFor SDK that is.13:38
Venemo_N810well the latter are self-explanatory13:39
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Venemo_N810but what can one do with dsme-dev13:39
ZogGi even don't know what firmware i have i think i got global last update as i flashed13:39
ZogGbut not sure =)13:39
* sivang tries to update13:39
ZogGno updates here =(13:39
sivangbut is only shows me updates for ukeyboards and other13:39
sivangstil checks for updates, takes it a good while13:40
tybolltcrashanddie: indeed, you see people entering google all the time - rarely see anyone leaving...13:40
Venemo_N810is there a fw file for flashing too?13:40
PontusOhmanF*CK! Why can't they do it right from the begining... To update now I need a freaking Winbloat machine :@13:41
sivangX-Fade: yes, so the nice guys from Helsinki were right. The dsme "docs" got released13:41
sivangor sort of13:42
Venemo_N810PontusOhman, why?13:42
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PontusOhmanVenemo_N810: > Got the update on my phone right now... But when I wanted to update it tells me I need a PC to continue :@13:43
MilhouseI've posted a message in the Maemo5 thread on the opera forum asking them to add a symlink from to which is what they did for PR1.2. Hope they read it soon.13:43
ZogGPontusOhman ерфт игн ЗС =)13:43
ZogGthan buy PC =)*13:43
KhertanPontusOhman, same here13:43
Venemo_N810PontusOhman, that sux13:44
PontusOhmanAnd for us with Linux it's no go13:44
jaskahrm, no fiasco images, guess ill wait then :|13:44
KhertanPontusOhman, i think cleaning root is the answer13:44
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KhertanPontusOhman, but i can't point you on how to do, as the thread explaining how to is on t.m.o which is down13:45
PontusOhmanZogG: что13:45
Venemo_N810PontusOhman, I agree with Khertan... make room on rootfs13:45
viszi can't see no update13:45
viszatleast no OTA13:45
Milhousevisz - what language is your device?13:45
KhertanPontusOhman, remove extra devel if installed13:46
viszwell i'm not in a hurry13:46
Milhousevisz: certainly available in the UK (I'm using the Global image). maybe other languages are being rolled out?13:47
ZogGf#k my version is unknow (13:47
Milhouseanyone know the cause of the "conflicting distribution" warning with PR1.3?13:47
X-FadeZogG: Just re-install the meta package then.13:47
PontusOhmanKhertan: > They are removed ^^13:48
Milhouse"W: Conflicting distribution: fremantle-1.3 Release (expected fremantle-1.3 but got )"13:48
ZogGX-Fade maemo package?13:48
X-FadeMilhouse: Yes.13:48
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MilhouseX-Fade: Do tell :)13:48
ZogGX-Fade trying to unisntall kernel utf and ntfs support13:48
ZogGshould nitdroid kernel and kexec do this?13:48
MilhouseX-Fade: Is there a fix?13:48
X-FadeI still need to remove the symlink and properly index the fremantle-1.3 repo.13:48
X-FadeOn the server end.13:48
MilhouseX-Fade: aha, ok thanks. will wait patiently. :)13:49
X-FadeMilhouse: Or edit your catalog entry and put fremantle-1.2 in there ;)13:49
ZogGX-Fade are you repo admin ?13:49
X-FadeZogG: Yes.13:50
tybolltso nokia asked to have TMO downed so as to not spread any gossip about the release, eh?13:50
Milhouseso far pr1.3 does feel snappier - might be just my imagination but opening apps (email, conversations, contacts, xterm) is instant, no delays.13:50
tybollt<-- tin-foil-hat-ON13:50
SurfaMilhouse, so is said13:51
ZogGX-Fade is the package name is mp-freemantle-003-pr and how do i force to reinstall13:51
X-FadeZogG: just apt-get install it?13:51
tybollt"speed improvements" is one of those lovely things you can just spout and noboy will be able to quantify it so dumb users everywhere just buys right into it :)13:51
X-Fadetybollt: Well it has a lot less swapping, so it will indeed be faster.13:52
Milhouseemails should open much quicker thanks to the notification icon close bug being squashed (bug 11139)13:52
povbotBug Long delays in email interface13:52
timeless_mbpoddly internally we spend a lot of time measuring speed13:52
ZogGX-Fade says it newest one - nothing to do =)13:52
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SpeedEvilIs it OTA yet?13:54
Milhousewaiting for browserd to wake up still means first page load in microb is sloooow. one reason why I prefer Opera, but then when I hit a page with flash (eg. BBC News) I hancker for microb. I wish that could be fixed, it really lets microb down badly.13:54
MilhouseSpeedEvil: Yes, at least for English/Global13:54
ZogGdamn and i have unknown version at all =(13:55
infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever13:55
* SpeedEvil ponders what customisation he has that would be wiped out.13:55
ZogG<jacekowski> ~pr1.3 //selfban?13:55
tybolltSpeedEvil: Pondering flashing?13:57
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SpeedEviltybollt: something like that13:58
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tybolltwhat is a 'meego developer'?14:01
tybolltuser -> sign nda -> meego developer?14:01
Stskeepswhat ndas?14:01
tybolltStskeeps: :)14:02
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tybolltso again, what makes one a meego developer then?14:02
sivanganyone has a clue?14:02
Vertig0A developer that develops meego, tybollt?14:02
sivangtybollt: the fact he gets commit access to b.m.c ?14:02
Milhousetybolt: anyone capable of downloading a file, copying to a microsd and running flasher to boot their device.14:02
Milhousetybolt: I think it's meant in the broadest sense14:03
ccookeSo... In lieu of t.m.o, is there a changelog or such document for pr1.3 yet?14:03
tybolltshould be14:03
ccooke(or any feedback at all?)14:03
Milhouseccooke: not yet.14:03
ccookeMilhouse: cheers14:03
* RST38h still thinks that to qualify as "enabling meego boot", PR1.3 should have contained a runtime selection, even via a key held during bootup14:03
Milhouseccooke: seems quicker, so claims of "performance improvements" seem genuine, at least so far! :)14:03
RST38hNobody is going to be pulling/inserting SD cards on the permanent basis14:04
MilhouseRST38h - would have been nice, very slick and garned some kudos too.14:04
tybolltMilhouse: how did you quantify that? Before and after results using microb?14:04
tybolltMilhouse: what scripts are you using what apps do you have installed... etc etc :)14:04
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sivang1.3 downlaoind over the air14:04
* sivang goes to lunch14:04
MilhouseRST38h - I don't pull my card, I just dd to it while it remains in the device.14:04
RST38hIs there a changelist somewhere?14:04
tybolltRST38h: apparently "andre is working on it"... is all I got14:05
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Milhousetybollt: yep, it "feels" quicker. My most often used apps (email, conversations, contacts) now start up "super quick" (c) Steve Jobs14:05
tybolltMilhouse: Wow, some proof you got there :)14:06
Milhousetybolt: hey, go do your scientific tests yourself. I've only had it 30 minutes.14:06
crashanddiewoop de fucking woop. "It feels faster"14:06
crashanddieMaybe Nokia should release a placebo PR every month, and in 6 months, the N900 will be faster than a quad core xeon.14:07
Milhousecrashanddie: surely that's all that fcking matters?14:07
tybolltcrashanddie: :-D14:07
Milhousecrashanddie: I'll wait patiently for your in depth and scientific testing. When can we expect it?14:08
Venemo_N810crashanddie, yeah14:08
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ccookeMilhouse: how's about the indication that we'd be able to dual-boot meego?14:08
crashanddieNokia PM: "OK, The files have been updated, send out the PR!" Nokia engineer 1: "So what exactly did we change?" Nokia engineer 2: "The file last modified date timestamp"14:08
VladNistor-ofjust got the OTA in Romania, but i need to wait until I get home. I also need to uninstall M-AG's modest to be able to upgrade.14:08
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RST38hcrashanddie: you perfectly well know that Nokia cannot release a PR every month14:08
Milhouseccooke: what indication? it was all a misunderstanding.14:08
RST38hcrashanddie: It has to go through several layers of testing, certificaiotn, and approval14:08
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ccookeMilhouse: I was expecting that :-)14:08
RST38hcrashanddie: Very important business, that PR is...14:09
crashanddieRST38h, QA scripts for "touch"?14:09
Shapeshifteroh lol14:09
Shapeshifterdidn't expect this14:09
sivanganybody has an idea, shout14:09
kkeany ideas how to separate music from audiobooks/application sound files in n900 mediaplayer? it's annoying to hear some navigation software "turn left at the next intersection after 300 meters"-stuff in middle of music14:09
kkeand parts of audiobooks14:09
tybolltMilhouse: he didn't assert it is faster - YOU asserted it is faster indeed, so either you put up or shut up :-)14:09
sivangor rather, why would this have changed since last upgradE?14:09
Shapeshifterso I assume I don't have to take any precautions for this PR as it doesn't do much?14:10
crashanddieMilhouse, I don't really care about it. I'm just amazed at the plethora of "it feels faster/snappier", when really, it's just thanks to a reboot for most users who had it on for the past couple months or so.14:10
Milhousetybollt: Someone asked MY opinion!!! Jeezz.... tough crowd.14:10
Milhousecrashanddie: I've been rebooting/starting apps long enough to know if they're "feel" quicker14:10
Milhousecrashanddie: Sorry I don't have the nanosecond timing that you crave14:10
crashanddieMilhouse, and it really isn't against you, just the general communities (be it Maemo, Android or iOS) doing exactly the same thing for every update.14:10
SpeedEvilkke: exclude from search14:11
Venemo_N810kke, try to separate them by metadata... eg, album, artist, etc14:11
SpeedEvilkke: See...14:11
Milhouseit was a snapshot opinion, what more do you expect for something that has only been available a few hours? blimey.14:11
SpeedEvilkke: ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg14:11
* alterego sighs14:11
kkeSpeedEvil: hmm ok cool14:11
crashanddieMilhouse, how about we just let this boat float away silently? :)14:11
alteregoI juss wanna firmware image.14:11
Milhousecrashanddie: agreed. :)14:12
SpeedEvilkke: exclude the dirs they are in14:12
tybolltMilhouse: that's picosecond to you...14:12
crashanddietybollt, femtoseconds?14:12
Venemo_N810alterego: no image on tablets-dev?14:12
Milhousevenomo: not yet14:12
crashanddietybollt, or maybe even zeptoseconds?14:12
nidOam I actually reading this right that the ota image needs 84.5mb of rootfs space?14:13
Milhousenid0: sounds about right - mine was 84.3MB14:13
Venemo_N810nidO, if that is the case, then lol14:13
tybolltbut yeah, what crashie says... it's the general "zOMG this is so much faster thatn $PRIOR_RELEASE" w/out ever actually verifying that...14:13
ZogGmy version is unknown and reisntalling mp-fremantle-003-pr didn't help here14:14
nidOVenemo_N810, yeah thats the lol i've run up against, app manager is telling me to fo and use pc suite :\14:14
Venemo_N810nidO, or make enough room on rootfs14:14
nidO74mb free atm, to my knowledge even a fresh flash is only a couple of mb more than that14:15
Shapeshifterwhere am I supposed to dig up 20mb of root space... /me disables -devel14:15
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alteregoAnd tmo is still screwed14:15
X-FadeMilhouse: Can you see if updating Extras now works without the warning?14:15
X-FadeMilhouse: Should be fixed now.14:15
Venemo_N810see the various moveroot scripts or uninstall -devel stuff14:15
nidOsee my comment re a fresh flash. this update cant expect more rootfs space than a clean install provides without having to move shit, surely14:16
RST38hLet us wait for 7+ days and see if the performance degradation is there yet14:16
RST38hIf the device still becomes dead slow in 7 days.... Well you know...14:17
MilhouseX-Fade: Verified fixed, many thanks! That was quick, although I don't have any accurate timings to verify this blah blah. ;)14:17
X-FadeMilhouse: It is just one of those todo items on a release day ;)14:17
Shapeshifterif this doesn't do anything, why should I be bothered with updating even.14:17
Shapeshifterand moving stuff14:17
Shapeshiftersilly update...14:17
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MilhouseShapreshifter: emails open quicker (and provably so!) :)14:18
X-FadeQt 4.7 is the big change.14:18
Shapeshiftermh :|14:18
Venemo_N810qt 4.7 rulz14:18
MilhouseI'll just go install alt of those wonderous Qt 4.7 apps... oh.14:18
ShapeshifterI always had some 65mb free, now it's 55 for some reason after a reboot. lame. and disabling -devel didn't do anything14:19
jacekowskihmm, it looks like camera flash is brighter during flash than during any other operation14:19
ZogG would be down if everyone checksif TMO is down?14:19
SpeedEviljacekowski: that's because it is14:19
X-Fadejacekowski: Of course. There is flash and flash light mode.14:19
X-Fadejacekowski: Flash is 250mA, flashlight is 50mA or so ;)14:20
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xkr47PR1.3 ?14:22
dolpmmm.. should 1.3 be at
Milhousexrk47: yes, it's out14:22
Milhousedolp: yes, eventually14:23
andre__dolp: always takes longer14:23
Venemo_N810dolp, notyet14:23
dolpoh ok.. how much longer? :)14:23
dolphours? days? weeks?14:23
toggles10 mins, it's uploading14:23
tybolltwoot, I just got it OTA14:23
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Shapeshifterargh dpkg14:23
Shapeshifterwhy so complicated...14:23
tybolltShapeshifter: dun worry lad, it'14:24
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eraniisn't this upgrade 20.2010.36-2 just pr1.2 update?14:24
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tybolltShapeshifter: dun worry lad, it'll soon be rpm and yum all around (goes to the corner to vomit)14:24
Venemo_N810erani, no14:24
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Venemo_N810tybollt, rpm yes, yum no14:24
jacekowskiis it OTA for UK?14:24
Shapeshiftertybollt: I don't know rpm but by now I doubt it's worse than apt...14:24
Shapeshifter /deb14:24
Milhousejacekowski: yep, got it here in south london14:24
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eranii'm in finland and my phone just notified of the fw upgrade14:25
Milhousejaceokowski: mind you, i picked it up over WiFi14:25
lardmanyeah also downloading here in Bath14:25
SpeedEvillardman: I hope you have accidental damage insurance.14:25
lardmanSpeedEvil: ;)14:25
tybolltShapeshifter: You will learn how indeed it CAN be worse, a great fucking deal worse, than apt/deb :-)14:25
alteregofff, I might just do OTA14:26
alteregoI don't wanna though :(14:26
SpeedEvilI doubt OTA will work for many, due to the reported stupid space needed14:26
Shapeshiftertybollt: really? Like in debians packaging files (which there are many of) the syntax needs to be spot-on, like "two spaces at the beginning of that line or else I'll screw your dog"14:26
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tybolltVenemo_N810: ah pardon me then, I suppose moblin invented their own whee... wrapper for rpm then?14:26
Shapeshifterand there's a billion files involved in making the simplest of packages14:26
lardmanhmm, I've got a Summary saying it requires PC Suite, and conflicts with libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img14:27
MilhouseSpeedEvil: Worked fine for me, but then I don't have that much cr@p on my device. :)14:27
RST38hWhat? Another wrapper?14:27
Shapeshifterand then there's all those completely superfluous states like "installed but not configured"14:27
Venemo_N810tybollt, I dunno, Stskeeps told me it's not yum14:27
tybolltRST38h: you tell me? :S14:27
RST38hlardman: Should nto require PC Suite14:27
RST38hlardman: But you better get rid of those libs14:27
lardmanRST38h: just what the update summary says in HAM14:27
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* RST38h probably connected via US-based network proxy, still no update here14:27
RST38hlardman: try apt-get14:28
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Shapeshiftertybollt: so, how would I go about finding out which packages I installed came from extras-devel?14:28
tybolltehr... ask RST, he's the expert :)14:28
tybolltbut I suppose dpkg -l some some could tell you?14:29
togglesdammit... qtlocation..14:29
lardmanok, so removing libqt4-test removes python2.5-qt414:29
Shapeshiftertybollt: no. packages usually don't know where they come from14:29
lardmanno worries there really14:29
Venemo_N810why not just remove it?14:29
tybolltShapeshifter: fair enough, then I've no idea.14:30
lardmanand CloudGPS pulled in the libgles1 dep14:30
nidObrain party also uses libgles114:30
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vdvdoes anybody use claws mail? is it possible to hide from tasklist, but still receive mails? has it daemon?14:30
tybolltto be perfectly honest I didnt even restore my backup onto my device after getting it back from the shop...14:31
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tybolltoh and the beauty of it is I just started a new gig so I get new phone numbers en masse... so doing the backup restoration thing will mean effectively merging phonebooks14:31
tybolltoh sweet baby jeebus :-|14:32
Shapeshiftertybollt: well do you know how to list all packages in a repo?14:32
xkr47"Maemo 5 - Download now via WLAN to get the latest" ... WLAN ? :)14:33
tybolltShapeshifter: For *deb based distros that is always provided as a list on http someplace.. (google -> ubuntu deb repo for instance)... so I'm guessing provides some similar14:34
Venemo_N810ask X-Fade14:34
asj__xkr47: ?14:35
ZogGgot update14:35
Shapeshiftertybollt: have you used any other package managers for linux before?14:35
psycho_oreoshmm usually with apt it keeps a list of the contents in a repo or the repo site14:35
xkr47that was the comment for the update..14:35
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tybolltShapeshifter: what point are you making? :)14:35
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Milhousexkr47: WLAN == WiFi14:36
xkr47are they saying "WLAN" to avoid people accidentally updating via 3G14:36
xkr47I prefer USB networking ;-)14:36
lardman~curse HAM for its stupid "Operation is in progress please wait" messages without any visible activity indication14:36
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, HAM for its stupid "Operation is in progress please wait" messages without any visible activity indication !14:36
xkr47it should be installed by default14:36
asj__xkr47: moving 86megs over 3g might be bad for some people14:36
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Shapeshiftertybollt: if it had aptitude, I could do something like sudo aptitude search "?origin (<repository>) ?installed"14:36
tybolltShapeshifter: if you want me to rain on your parade and list each and everyone of the EPIC FAILs in yum, sure I'll do it.14:36
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RobbieThe1stYou guys actually -use- the app manager? Ouch.14:37
Shapeshiftertybollt: yes please, because I don't know anything about it14:37
lardmanRobbieThe1st: only when I have time to waste14:37
SpeedEvilUK - no update found14:37
RobbieThe1stBetween apt-get and (occasionally) FAM///14:37
MilhouseRobbieThe1st: Not if I can help it.14:37
tybolltShapeshifter: Hmm good point, so aptitude isn't ported then?14:37
* SpeedEvil checks version.14:37
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RobbieThe1st"sudo gainroot", "sudo apt-get update", "sudo apt-get install app". Some of the most time-saving commands imaginable14:37
nidOupdate's finally going for me after clearing out libgles1-sgx-img14:37
tybolltSpeedEvil: ORLY? Even we in .se have got it OTA now...14:37
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SpeedEvilupdate in app-manager, and I get nuffink14:38
lardmanSpeedEvil: Works for me14:38
RobbieThe1stBye all14:38
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jacekowskinothing here14:38
Shapeshiftertybollt: nah. I'd really just need a list of all packages, I'm looking for that html atm, because then I could do cat the-list | grep $(dpkg -l | awk -F '\t' '{print $2}')14:38
jacekowskino update for uk14:38
Shapeshiftertybollt: nah. I'd really just need a list of all packages, I'm looking for that html atm, because then I could do cat the-list | grep $(dpkg -l | awk -F '  ' '{print $2}') actually14:38
jacekowski~rant nokia14:38
lardmanjacekowski: works for me14:38
th3hatei got libqtm updates in app manager from nokia software update catelog, but they coflict with every qt 4.6 package, how do i install them?14:38
jacekowskilardman: do you have UK firmware?14:38
jacekowskilardman: or global?14:38
lardmanUK afaik14:38
lardmanbut then again it's a pre-summit device, so who knows14:39
RST38hlardman: You haven't returned yours yet?14:39
tybolltShapeshifter: again... it seems highly reasonable to probide it via html, certainly seeing as ubuntu and debian does so.14:40
lardmanRST38h: I asked if I could keep it to keep working on and was told yes14:40
lardmanRST38h: I didn't pick up one at the summit14:40
Venemo_N810lardman, what are you working on?14:40
Shapeshiftertybollt: can't find it :| I'd need to extract the Packages.gz14:40
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MilhouseNow on Nokia Conversations, but doesn't say anything we didn't already know:
RST38hlardman: Same here14:40
Shapeshiftertybollt: but then I'm just as far as apt-cache dumpavail14:40
RST38hlardman: Mine went to the next guy though, I bought myself a new one14:41
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ZogGanyone had problem with python2.5-minimal and pymaemo-optify?14:41
RST38hpymaemo-optify sucks.14:41
Shapeshiftertybollt: and apt-cache doesn't take a repo argument14:41
Shapeshiftertybollt: or at least I don't see one14:42
MohammadAG51it doesn't14:42
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ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: do you know how to list all packages that reside in a repo?14:42
RST38hit should show repository names during dumpavail though14:42
ZogGRST38h yes, can't upgrade cause of it14:42
RST38hZogG: Remove all Python packages.14:43
ShapeshifterRST38h: doesn't14:43
ZogGRST38h, it would remove a lot of stuff i use and need and love =)14:43
eranithe "Brilliant just got better" link in site takes the user to the older news from May...14:43
eraninothing big but just mentioned :o14:43
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PontusOhmanEpic Fail on Nokia just now... The update manager in my phone tells me to hock up my phone to a Windows PC with Nokia PC Suite! Nokia PC Suite isn't compatible with N900 :@14:46
Stskeepsor use flasher14:46
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, apt-cache something14:46
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: orly14:47
PontusOhmanStskeeps: Have they released it as a flash?14:47
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, apt-cache pkgnames14:47
lardmanhmm, slightly worrying my screen has gone black14:47
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: excuse me?14:47
tybolltPontusOhman: Ovi suite is14:47
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: My question was, how I could list all packages that are available in extras-devel14:47
RST38hShapeshifter: packrat14:47
crashanddielardman, Once you go black, there's no way back.14:47
PontusOhmantybollt: > Yeah, on Winbloat ^^14:48
ZogGso how can i fix this python thing without actually removing all python apps?14:48
tybolltcrashanddie: :-D14:48
lardmancrashanddie: is it doing something in the bg then?14:48
RST38hJust remove Python and all Python apps14:48
MohammadAG51apt-cache stats Shapeshifter14:48
lardmanor are you taking the mick? :)14:48
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ZogGRST38h =(14:49
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: what do you mean? that just prints stats. I mean a *list* of one package name per line, listing all packages14:49
_davidx_Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?14:49
PontusOhmanStskeeps: > No flashfile here. http://tablets-dev.[D[D[D[D[
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tybolltplease someone KB _davidx_, obvious spambot :-)14:50
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, dude, i already answered that14:50
MohammadAG51apt-cache pkgnames14:50
SpeedEvildpkg -l14:50
_davidx_are you sure i'm a spambot?14:50
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, he asked for all packages in the repo, not the ones installed :)14:50
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: but that lists *all* packages, not just those of a given repo14:50
SpeedEvilinstall all packages14:50
crashanddie_davidx_, identify yourself14:50
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, disable other repos14:51
MohammadAG51don't know any other way14:51
_davidx_i'm a person14:51
MohammadAG51umm, sec14:51
crashanddietybollt, he's australian14:51
_davidx_i'm actually a bot designed to pass the turing test14:51
crashanddietybollt, might be a bit weird14:51
_davidx_am I passing?14:51
eraniOTA update successful here o/ from quick walkthrough it seems that OS and transistions speeds have increased greatly...14:51
Stskeeps_davidx_: with your sentence above you did not14:51
tybolltcrashanddie: fair enough...14:51
DocScrutinizer_davidx_: your post didn't look like, so prove14:51
_davidx_prove what?14:51
_davidx_that i'm not a spambot?14:51
DocScrutinizerk, god enough for me :-D14:52
_davidx_it better be14:52
lardmanCan someone who has applied the OTA update tell me if you get a black screen, and if so how long does it last for before rebooting?14:52
crashanddie_davidx_, "it better be"?14:52
tybolltwhat's $DEITY to do w/ this doc? :P14:52
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, Nokia-N900:/opt/var/lib/apt/lists# cat repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages | grep Package | grep -v Packaged | sed s/Package\:\ //g14:52
_davidx_it better be "good enough".14:52
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eranicrashanddie: didn't last long. the whole update took 15min and reboot for about ~15-20sec14:53
crashanddiethis is good enough for me too, bitch14:53
eranilardman: i mean14:53
lardmanerani: did you have a working screen throughout?14:53
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eranino, when the update process began the screen locked and I used the slider to unlock to see the progress bar14:53
lardmanah, perhaps that's it14:54
lardmanphew, thanks14:54
DocScrutinizermonday morning madness?14:54
lardmanDocScrutinizer: got to be something to take away the pain of a Monday ;)14:54
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, got what you wanted? :)14:54
sivangmine told me there's not enough battery for the upgrade14:54
sivangthat's nice14:55
* sivang will plug into the wallet and retry14:55
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: thanks!14:55
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: was this really necessary?14:55
MilhouseBless him, finally Peter the marketing bloke gets around to spreading the word...!/PeterMeeGo/status/2868250721214:56
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MilhouseIf this were Google or Apple, they'd have been spinning this for weeks already.14:56
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eranioh, nice to see that all contacts' portrait photos got better resolution back again :) with 1.2 they somehow blurred after syncing with FB && merge14:56
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Scelterani: so you got OTA update already?14:57
alteregoProbably tweeting because he can't access tmo :)14:57
eraniScelt: yeah14:57
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alteregoIt's on nokia conversations now too.14:57
MohammadAG51OTA what?14:57
tybolltMilhouse: You've to consider that Nokia don't really want or care for N900... it's like the cinderella of mobile phones...14:57
MohammadAG51pr1.3 came out?14:57
Scelterani: what operator?14:57
MohammadAG51wait is this pr1.3?14:57
eraniall menus and calendars work now without glitching or slowing down \o/ yay14:57
* tybollt tilts MohammadAG51 w/ frals14:58
eraniScelt: elisa @ FI14:58
MohammadAG51erani, what update14:58
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Scelterani: I have saunalahti so I think I should get it too14:58
MohammadAG51pr1.3 better not come out14:58
tybolltwhy not?14:58
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Already did.14:58
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StskeepsMohammadAG51: who said fremantle was dead ;)14:59
Scelterani: did you do any changes or just updated thru app manager?15:00
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MohammadAG51Stskeeps, sorry about #meego lol15:00
eraniMohammadAG51: 20.2010.36-2 was the codename, it seems that it is the pr 1.3 update yeah. has the news too15:00
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MohammadAG51Stskeeps, Qt 4.7 has a bug, I hope it isn't there in...15:00
eraniScelt: just backed up everything and updated via app manager15:00
Scelterani: odd, I see no trace about pr1.3415:00
MohammadAG5136-2 is the leaked testing image15:00
eraniMohammadAG51: -.o'15:01
eranigot it via official repos though15:01
keriooh shit i can't upgrade :<15:01
MohammadAG51yes, but it has bugs15:01
MohammadAG51erani, install psfreedom15:01
MohammadAG51tap title bar15:01
MohammadAG51click kernel messages15:02
X-FadeMohammadAG51: 20100909.15:02
MohammadAG51if it shows black text on black bg, it still has the bug15:02
MohammadAG51X-Fade, ?15:02
X-FadeMohammadAG51: That is the git snapshot.15:02
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Khertanhumm ... style warn about installing via nokia update15:03
sivangwhat's that dreadful parameter to the kernel to allow sb qemu to run?15:03
Khertanneed more rootfs space15:03
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lardmanhmm, well it's certainly running quite snappily15:04
togglesman, that was an easy flsh15:04
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secyritashmph, app manager does not offer pr1.3 for leaked img15:04
eranioooooh, media player works in portrait. gonna love that @ school15:04
Scelterani: I see it now. fapman failed to see it before15:04
totalizatorhi, why I can't install binary-only packages for diablo4.1.2_armel in scrathbox?
lardmansivang: echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled ?15:06
lardmansivang: there's another if it's not exposed there15:06
sivanglardman: thanks15:06
Sceltdamn, memory errors again with OTA15:07
eranioh well, the portraid media player was a bug anyways... managed to enjoy 1min of it =)15:07
Sceltmemory full I mean15:07
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Shapeshiftermhhhhh. something is wrong with the n900's grep. This: should print the line: echo "asdf lol bar" | grep -F "$(echo 'foo'; echo 'bar')" but it doesn't.15:07
PontusOhmanThe question is now: How to update if you can't update thru the phone because you need Winbl0at =/ And no flasher file is out yet :(15:07
Shapeshifterso grep -F is broken.15:07
lardmansivang: sudo sysctl vm.vdso_enabled=015:07
lardman iirc15:07
nidOPontusOhman: free root space, remove conflicting software15:08
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togglesanyone know if they fixed the swap issue?15:09
Scelterani: how much free on root fs? I have 65 MB15:09
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: busybox tools are not gnu15:09
DocScrutinizer51Shapeshifter: messybox grep15:10
Shapeshifterah right.15:10
tybolltso 1.3 is there on my device15:10
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils15:10
tybolltI'm a wee bit dsimayed there are no pink dancing unicorns or anything... nokia - you could've done so much better :(15:11
Khertan <-- still not available15:11
Shapeshiftermhh. where did bash get installed, even?15:11
ShapeshifterI have it installed but /bin/bash is busybox15:11
PontusOhmannidO: > The darn update manager tells me to plug my phone into a Winbl0at PC using Nokia PC Suite O_O15:11
KhertanPontusOhman, :)15:11
PontusOhmanThat's epic Fail15:12
nidOPontusOhman: yep, means you either have too little rootfs space, or a conflicting package15:12
DocScrutinizer51lol even15:12
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nidO2 of which were identified here a little while ago15:12
nidOhave you checked to ensure you have neither installed?15:12
SceltnidO: which ones?15:12
MohammadAG51is there a way to suppress the usb dialog?15:12
tybolltMohammadAG51++ I'd like that too15:12
nidOlibqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img15:12
tybollt</AOL user>15:12
PontusOhmanit'sthe libqt4 test....15:13
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DocScrutinizerUSB dialog?15:13
meceMohammadAG51, pingelypong15:13
MohammadAG51mass storage/pc suite DocScrutinizer15:14
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eraniScelt: how do i check it15:14
PontusOhmanAhaa! The Healthcheck was the enemy :p15:14
DocScrutinizermodprobe -r g_nokia, someting along that line?15:14
KhertanMohammadAG51, remove the module :)15:14
Scelterani: df -h in terminal for example15:15
tybolltie the FUCKING annoying dialog that always pops up when you least need/want it :)15:15
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, i need g_nokia15:15
Scelterani: df -h | grep -i rootfs15:15
KhertanMohammadAG51, are you sure ?15:15
mecenew versions of qt mobility it seems too. nice.15:15
viszis there an app to copy clipboard content from n900 to desktop pc (linux)?15:16
eraniScelt: 84mb free15:16
Scelterani: ok, thx15:16
viszor should i do some xsel magic?15:16
MohammadAG51no, i don't need it15:16
MohammadAG51it's actually removed15:16
SceltI try to remove libqt4-test first15:16
viszwould be useful for barcode purposes15:16
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KhertanMohammadAG51, i ve a conflict with the hildon-desktop package you have made15:17
KhertanMohammadAG51, and pr1.3 any idea on how to remove it ? :)15:17
sivanganyone else have trouble upgrading Scratchbox?15:17
meceKhertan, reinstall original from repos15:17
PontusOhmanBBL :)15:18
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MohammadAG51mece, right, but what's the version number :P15:18
mecewait I'll check15:18
Khertanit s on the nokia repository ... cannot browse it15:18
meceI believe15:19
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MohammadAG51apt-get install hildon-desktop=1:2.2.138-1+0m5 Khertan15:19
meceoh.. ok then15:19
mece here is .14015:20
meceyou need a backslash before the + btw.15:20
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DocScrutinizerhehe, pr1.3? nevermind, I did apt-get remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr, so seems it doesn't pester me :-P15:20
Shapeshifterbut wait. dpkg -L bash3 tells me /bin/bash is bash, yet grep -F is still broken in that bash.15:21
Khertanhildon-desktop is already the newest version.15:21
MohammadAG51Khertan, --reinstall15:21
SpeedEvilgrep is not a bash internal15:21
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MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, install grep-gnu15:21
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ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: thanks15:21
KhertanReinstallation of hildon-desktop is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.15:21
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: WFM15:22
meceKhertan: try this:
Khertanit doesn't try to download it15:22
mecedpkg -i15:22
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: PATH=/usr/bin/gnu:$PATH15:22
Khertanmece, thx15:23
Khertanreinstalled :)15:23
Khertanlet see if it s works now15:23
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MohammadAG51Khertan, maybe you had my package pinned? rm /etc/apt/preferences15:24
Khertanalready done :)15:24
Khertanwas pinned15:24
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Khertanbut i ve remove the pref before asking to you :)15:25
Khertanroh an other conflict15:25
MohammadAG51dpkg -r it15:25
MohammadAG51it conflicts with the leaked image15:25
MohammadAG51actually, it no longer does...15:26
Khertanit does15:26
eranioh well, the image gallery performance is still a slight disappointment... i usually have a large portion of images with me and it's quite laggy -.o'15:26
Khertani m trying to upgrade ota15:26
Khertanwith a pr1.215:26
MohammadAG51erani, gtk, sadly15:26
MohammadAG51i'm on 1.3 (leaked)15:27
MohammadAG51now it installs15:27
tybolltMohammadAG51: can haz QT apps? :'(15:27
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Khertanarg ... removing libqt4-test will remove python2.5-qt415:27
MohammadAG51Khertan, right, that's the one that conflicts15:28
eraniwonder if the qt versions will be ported to n900 too when they are ready...15:28
MohammadAG51no Qt versions afaik15:28
MohammadAG51unless someone makes one15:28
eraniyou mean of the official nokia software?15:28
alteregoRight, laptop now has ubuntu 10.10 on it ..15:29
felipechmm, so PR1.3 can't be updated OTA?15:29
eranifelipec: it can15:29
alteregoWell, it can15:29
Khertanfelipec, but remove python2.5-qt4 ...15:29
Shapeshiftermeh, my masterplan has failed15:29
tybolltso any idea what specific new featuers 1.3 brings to the table?15:29
Khertantybollt, bug fixes15:29
tybolltother than the highly fuzzy "it's faster"15:29
tybolltKhertan: shrug... olrit15:30
Shapeshifterwget -q -O - | grep "Package: " | awk '{print $2}' | /usr/bin/gnu/grep  -F "$(dpkg -l | awk -F '  ' '{print $2}')" was supposed to list all packages installed which are in extras-devel but there's the problem that many packages are in extras-devel but *also* in extras.15:30
Shapeshifterso complicated.15:30
tybolltShapeshifter: There you go, I told ya!15:30
Shapeshifterpacman -Sl community | grep "$(pacman -Q | awk '{print $2}')"15:30
SpeedEvilremove all packages in extras-devel15:31
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Flyser__Hey. is it possible to update to PR 1.3 using Linux (so no nokia suite) and _without_ reflashing the whole thing using nokia flasher?15:31
felipecerani: Khertan: ok, I'll try that once this slow backing app finishes15:31
Flyser__MohammadAG51: was that the answer to my question?15:32
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Shapeshifterso, if I have made a backup (which also saves the currently installed apps), and I uninstall some applications now to free some space, and then update the PR, and then restore the backup, all the applications should be reinstalled, right?15:32
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Flyser__too bad :-(15:32
meceFlyser__: you can update with apt-get or app manager I suppose :)15:32
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mecedownloading 84Mb... yawn15:33
meceperhaps I should have gone wlan before I did this15:33
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meceoh damn, nevermind this is really fast!15:34
mece25% done now..15:34
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Flyser__mece: does that actually work?15:34
Shapeshifterdear I just hope meego wont be as broken as maemo.15:34
SceltShapeshifter: it won't. Much more broken :-D15:34
tybolltShapeshifter: Well duuuh, it's linux - OF COURSe it'll be...15:34
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: exactly15:34
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KhertanShapeshifter, there is nothing broken on maemo15:35
Shapeshiftertybollt: what's that supposed to mean15:35
meceFlyser__, well I'm installing now, we'll see.15:35
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SpeedEvilAnyone else in the UK not seeing the update?15:35
ShapeshifterKhertan: busybox, crippled gnu-tools, totally messed up mounting/partitioning15:35
KhertanShapeshifter, take a look in details to see if there is no package conflict15:35
Shapeshifterno man pages by default15:35
eraniShapeshifter: what do you mean by "broken os"15:35
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: me, but I'm not UK15:35
KhertanShapeshifter, one point :)15:35
tybolltthe man page bit is a bastard15:36
Khertanexcept for man :)15:36
SpeedEvilThey are not broken gnu tools.15:36
SpeedEvilThey are not gnu tools.15:36
MohammadAG51X-Fade, any idea when the bin will be out15:36
MohammadAG51man-db-n900 :P15:36
SpeedEvilThis is the right decision - it will make 99.99% of users experience better.15:36
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SpeedEvilAs the busybox tools are lighter-weight and load faster/use less RAM for scripting.15:37
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils15:37
Shapeshifterwell they could use zsh... :D15:37
SpeedEvilthe issue is not zsh or bash or sh15:37
Shapeshifteralso much faster, more lightweight than bash but complete shell15:37
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SpeedEvilIt's that grep and shell - for example - are the same binary largely.15:38
X-FadeMohammadAG51: No, but that should not be that long.15:38
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tybolltShapeshifter: zsh is that fucker that even tab completes hostnames and shit?15:38
MohammadAG51X-Fade, can you remove a package for me15:38
SpeedEvilThis means that execing busybox grep is _substantially_ faster than forking a truly seperate process.15:38
Shapeshiftertybollt: hostnames? well I guess that is doable but it doesn't do that by default. Do you know bash-completion?15:38
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Sure.15:38
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: yeah but it's no use that it's faster if it's broken.15:38
tybolltShapeshifter: sure do - not all the intrinsics but yeah...15:39
MohammadAG51X-Fade, someone was here in #maemo and they removed my whole packages page15:39
DocScrutinizerthe only ``issue'' is the fubar initscripts relying on busyboxisms15:39
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: But it's not broken for 99.99% of users.15:39
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SpeedEvilShapeshifter: and the .01% should just install gnu tools.15:39
X-FadeMohammadAG51: ??15:39
MohammadAG51X-Fade, psfreedom non-free15:39
MohammadAG51keep the free version15:39
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raimowhy can't I install pr 1.3 over wlan? it asks me to update via pc suite, but apparently pc suite doesn't support n900 ?15:40
DocScrutinizerwhich part of ~messybox did you ignore?15:40
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ShapeshifterX-Fade: oh, btw, could you please remove this package? I've written you an email and asked in here before but I guess you didn't notice.15:40
raimohave anyone managed to install the pr 1.3 update?15:40
DocScrutinizermessybox is neither broken nor "not broken for 99.99%" - it's just not an interactive shell15:41
meceLOL wife called and exactly as the dialer appeared the installation set phone to offline mode.15:41
maybeWorkso uhm... is there any kind of changelog for that 80mb update thingy?15:41
Scelterani: 15:40:53 < raimo> have anyone managed to install the pr 1.3 update?15:41
eranioh :P15:42
X-FadeShapeshifter: Hmm I must have really missed that.15:42
Sceltmece: something to talk about at home15:42
X-FadeShapeshifter: Every version from every repo?15:42
ShapeshifterX-Fade: yes, that package is completely deprecated in favour of "reaction face-off"15:42
raimomaybeWork: bug+performance updates and ovi services support is what I've heard15:42
th3hate_rx51is it safe to delete /usr/lib/locale/"locale-archive" from rootfs, if i'm satisfied with english only?15:43
raimoerani: so you got it installed? how did you do it? It won't install it over-the-air for me15:43
ShapeshifterX-Fade: thanks15:43
eraniraimo: OTA via WLAN @ App manager15:43
Sceltraimo: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img15:43
raimoScelt:  ?15:43
Sceltraimo: those packages need to be removed in order to install OTA15:43
raimoah okay15:44
Sceltat least worked for me15:44
Flyser__erani: without nokia pc suite?15:44
eraniFlyser__: yeah15:44
chem|st&%§)(*'"42"$(/ bootcycling after upgrade to PR1.3... flashing again wtf15:44
DocScrutinizerchem|st: o.O15:44
chem|straimo: yes it installed and settings and browser were missing so I restarted into bootcycle15:45
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chem|straimo: if you are missing enough free space it asks you to upgrade via suite15:45
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: had that with 1.2 and now with 1.3...15:46
raimochem|st: okay, thanks15:46
MohammadAG51enable r&d mode?15:46
* DocScrutinizer wonders why tmo is MIA, lol MUAHAHAHAAA15:46
felipecanybody knows how to query for orphan packages?15:46
raimowould've helped if it would've actually told me that.. :]15:46
Flyser__how much free space is needed?15:46
phrykthe application manager tells me that for the current update i need the nokia pc suite15:46
phrykwhich apparently only exists for windows??15:47
eraniFlyser__: no idea, but I had 84mb of rootfs mem and it installed15:47
chem|stFlyser__: 80Mb15:47
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raimophryk: [15:45] <    chem|st> | raimo: if you are missing enough free space it asks you to upgrade via suite15:47
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chem|sterani: it is not rootfs I guess15:47
phrykah okay15:47
SceltFlyser__: I have 65 Mt and lets me to go for OTA instead of pc suite15:47
Flyser__I have exactly 80.4MB and it wont install15:47
chem|stit installed with 66MB free / at mine15:47
meceFlyser__, it's a conflicting package15:47
Flyser__lets delete some stuff :)15:47
eraniFlyser__: have you removed those packages Scelt mentioned15:47
eraniyeah :P15:47
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phrykwhere is the apt-cache again?15:48
SceltFlyser__: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img15:48
RST38hheya javispedro15:48
DocScrutinizerhi javispedro15:48
mecephryk, it's not in / anymore15:48
Flyser__Scelt: no. is it safe to do so?15:48
chem|stphryk: I guess in /home/user somewhere isnt it?15:48
Shapeshifteroh wow, this script is *golden*
sivangScelt: yes restriticions for OTA somewhat relaxed or what?15:48
sivangsame here15:48
SceltFlyser__: I had to remove few apps with those packages but nothing important15:49
Shapeshiftergit-core isn't optified and used up 14.4mb on rootfs :|15:49
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: joining in monday-1.3-madness ? :-)15:49
MohammadAG51javispedro, have a nice cup of pr1.315:49
Sceltsivang: seems so15:49
javispedrotoo bad15:49
raimoI take it PakageView should see those packages ? it shows absolutely nothing for me15:49
javispedroPR1.3 release has slashdotted tmo15:49
javispedrowhich means I won't get engadget'd for preenv =)15:49
chem|stnow flashed 1.2 reinstated settings only and upgrade to 1.3 (again)15:49
Sceltraimo: to terminal, root and then dpkg -l | grep libgles15:50
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mecewow this updating is not super fast...15:50
MohammadAG51X-Fade, removed psfreedom from non-free?15:50
mecedownloading went in a jiffy but the updating is going slooooow15:50
X-FadeMohammadAG51: yes.15:50
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felipecShapeshifter: how about this? dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size;10}\t${Package}\n' | sort -k1,1n15:51
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: btw, not sure if there was a problem with psfreedom itself but this morning there was an update of psfreedom and I let it install and went away and when I came back the n900 wouldn't come back from sleep and I had to remove the battery15:52
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eranioh, just found a strange bug of the 1.3... when you open the app menu from desktop and browse to the bottom of the list and a bit outside of it (where it should bounce back the icons) it just jams and tick by tick gets back to normal15:52
foxfellHi all. Who tried to run nokia pc suite uneder wine?15:52
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: why Nokia broke the traditional scheme of releasing on Friday, when next Monday is holiday and everybody off for a week?15:52
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Shapeshifterfelipec: nice. doesn't show space used exclusively on rootfs, though15:52
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: I guess because that got delayed? ;)15:52
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Oli```foxfell: Not worth it. Virtualbox is the only way to run it on a Linux machine.15:53
javispedroso, is tablets-dev keeping up? Or I should not even try? :)15:53
foxfellOli```: no alternatives?15:53
chem|stjavispedro: nope15:53
chem|stjavispedro: still 1.215:53
Oli```foxfell: not really, no15:54
chem|stthats why I just flashed 1.2 and upgraded to 1.315:54
DocScrutinizerfoxfell: who would need that crap on linux anyway?15:54
Oli```foxfell: if you're just flashing, you can flash from Linux IIRC15:54
felipecfoxfell: Oli```: it probably can't work through a virtual system15:54
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Oli```felipec: it does15:54
felipecfoxfell: Oli```: of course there is... use flasher15:54
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foxfelltnx guys15:55
ebzzryHi! Is there a way to invoke the "back" button in windows programatically?15:55
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, can't see how it can be related :)15:55
infobotrumour has it, flashing is
javispedrogive me back tmo!15:55
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MohammadAG51X-Fade, thanks, can you refresh the description?15:55
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: :-P15:55
DocScrutinizer[2010-10-25 14:46:29] * DocScrutinizer wonders why tmo is MIA, lol MUAHAHAHAAA15:56
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Will get updated automatically.15:56
MohammadAG51X-Fade, description too? it wasn't updated when i updated the package15:56
foxfellFlashing the rootfs on your N900 will reset the device back to factory settings. sounds bad15:56
javispedroDocScrutinizer: abstinence syndrome!15:56
MohammadAG51foxfell, no15:57
sivangDocScrutinizer: missing in action? what happened to it?15:57
MohammadAG51flashing the eMMC will15:57
raimoI wonder if using third party application manager like the Faster App Manager for pr update is doomed to fail?15:58
* sivang wonders how flasher detects which is the eMMC, extended storage, SD etc15:58
DocScrutinizersivang: nobody knows. History will show where and why it got lost in famous battle of 1.315:58
raimobecause it started updating without any complains.. :]15:58
sivangDocScrutinizer: HAHAHA15:58
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sivangI did see flasher is rather wise about that-15:58
sivangknowing what not to destry15:58
sivangwhich is nice15:58
Oli```foxfell: Updating by flashing is still pretty abrasive. It knocks out anything installed. You'd probably do better to wait for the OTA update.15:58
sivangOli```: not so much15:59
felipecfoxfell: that's what the Nokia PC would do, AFAIK15:59
maybeWTFnothing wrong with a bit torched earth now and then15:59
felipecfoxfell: that's why you need to backup15:59
Oli```sivang: that's my experience of it15:59
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sivangOli```: you upgrade, you move away to a different storage, you flash, restore everything and viola15:59
felipecfoxfell: of course you could try to free space so that OTA works15:59
sivangOli```: was a breeze for me, even better than OTA15:59
sivangbut yes, I'd hate to say-15:59
sivangI did remove stuff that was not neccessary15:59
sivange.g. every package that I decided I don't use anymore- got purged16:00
sivangand then reflashed16:00
Oli```That said, if you're drowning in clutter, a reflash is a good way to get back to a nice sane set of defaults. Just make sure you backup anything you might want.16:00
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Shapeshifterso, how would I be able to find out which package conflicts with the PR update?16:01
KhertanShapeshifter, in the update screen16:01
Khertanin ham16:01
Khertanclick on Maemo Update16:01
Khertanthen details16:01
ShapeshifterKhertan: thanks!16:02
Khertan2 or 3 notebook you will see the details16:02
meceupdate with appmanager walked flawlessly.16:02
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KhertanShapeshifter, for me it was libqt4-test, and a package that replace hildon-desktop :)16:02
chem|stmece: grats16:03
* Oli``` wishes his OTA update would show up16:03
sivangOli```: I actually regret storing the settings, yes16:03
DocScrutinizerKhertan: WTF is the wiki page summarizing all that?16:03
mecethe slowness of the uk release again. annoying.16:03
sivangOli```: since it brought me back to clutter of tweakui and other things16:03
sivangOli```: should have just restored everything else16:03
sivangDocScrutinizer: the wiki page summerziing the update and the changeset?16:03
rmrfchikemmmm... what are you do updating?16:03
KhertanDocScrutinizer, the wiki ?16:04
meceI needed to dpkg -i this file: after that it was smooth sailing.16:04
KhertanDocScrutinizer, don't know ... was down16:04
DocScrutinizerand conflicting pkg and 42, yes16:04
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meceanyway I'm off. ta.16:04
maybeWTFstarting the update with power bar at 1/3rd = good idea c/d?16:04
sivangDocScrutinizer: I'm surprised as well. this seems the most discrete upgrade ever in free software ? :)16:04
sivangmaybeWTF: it will tell you if it has enough battery16:04
sivangmaybeWTF: told me to plug to waller16:04
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mecesame here. used usb cable though. worked fine. took about 15 minutes to upgrade.16:05
maybeWTFhehe, nice16:05
meceseriouslt though. I'm off.16:05
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raimoI just used Faster Application Manager to OTA update and it seemed to go through just fine16:06
raimoalthough the nokia application manager wouldn't run it16:06
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: honestly, wouldn't it be more sane to *first* publish the fiasco img and changelog and stuff, *then* a day later enable the SSU?16:06
rmrfchikwell, sorry if it was answered. is apt-get upgrade safe for 1.3?16:06
sivang"its complicated"16:06
javispedroyou should really use the builtin apt manager16:06
sivangbetween HAM and FAPMAN16:06
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Yes16:06
javispedroit does more stuff that a plain apt-get upgrade16:07
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rmrfchikjavispedro: hmm, for example?16:07
DocScrutinizerrmrfchik: apt-get upgrade is *never* safe16:07
javispedrormrfchik: including but not limited to "tuning" compression ratos for the ubifs16:07
rmrfchikDocScrutinizer: hmm. you ruine my world.16:07
sivangjavispedro: oh dear16:07
sivangjavispedro: that is something out of this world, I was nto aware.16:07
rmrfchikjavispedro: ok, thanks16:07
fluxapt-get upgrade is safe in a way that you can always reflash the device?-)16:07
sivangjavispedro: how did you find out it does that?16:07
javispedrosivang: iirc since pr1.216:07
sivangjavispedro: from changelog?16:08
rmrfchikt.m.o is down? ;)16:08
javispedrosivang: sorry, mxr doesn't not yet index pr1.2 code seems, get hildon-application-manager src pkg16:08
alteregoHow popular can t.m.o be ..16:08
alteregoIt's been down for about 6 hours now.16:08
Khertanflux, not really ... image isn't available yet :)16:08
DocScrutinizerflux: beating the brick wall is alway safe as you can recover by healing your bones :-P16:08
Shapeshifteralterego: "I updated to PR1.3 and now everything is broken"16:08
X-Fadealterego: Wait for reggie to wake up ;)16:08
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fluxkhertan, well, you can upgrade the previous version, you're not (much) worse off than what you started with :)16:08
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Khertanflux ... hum ... true16:09
alteregoShapeshifter: "PR1.3 ruined my life, now I can't rant about how awful it is on t.m.o NOKIA cens0rs!"16:09
sivangjavispedro: k, thanks for the tip16:09
DocScrutinizeralterego: it's not down, it's just MIA16:09
DocScrutinizeralterego: aka lemmings running a DDoS16:09
javispedroyea, with enough patience you can still reach it16:09
javispedro(contributing to the slashdotting)16:10
alteregoAll those Android fanbois16:10
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sivangso 1.3 ruins the installation?16:10
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javispedrosivang: found it!
rmrfchikand changelog are ...16:10
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* sivang thanks timeless for mxr16:10
ElAngelothat's what i'd like to know too...16:10
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sivangjavispedro: thanks16:10
ElAngelowhat do we get in 1.3 ?16:10
jaskaa new version number!16:11
ShapeshifterElAngelo: you get 2 hours of caring for your device to make it able to update OTA.16:11
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* javispedro plans to reflash either way16:11
javispedroI think I'm still using pr1.1 modest....16:11
rmrfchikPR1.3 -- enlarge your version number!16:11
Milhousebug fixes16:12
ElAngelois Shapeshifter the channel troll now?16:12
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Milhousethe changelog has been posted on t.m.o. but nobody can read it.16:12
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crashanddieElAngelo, and you are?16:12
raimookay well the bulid in app manager still shows the maemo update after updating with the faster app manager, but now it allows an OTA update. so I'm running that now :D16:13
sivangjavispedro: oh that you are in pain, my friend, modest is still not as good as it could be IMHO, but 1.1 was a nightmare16:13
crashanddieElAngelo, because as I recall, Shapeshifter has been around here a heckuvalot longer than you have.16:13
raimoI'm supriced if I don't manage to f*ck something up with this..16:13
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ElAngelocrashanddie: don't know... just a user16:13
javispedrosivang: I had patched it and never bothered to forward port stuff to 1.2 =)16:13
the_lordHi! is there a place where I can see the changelog of PR 1.3 ?16:13
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GAN900I love websites with a thousand and one in-window popup ads, advisements and survey requests.16:13
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ElAngeloi just scrolled up a couple of lines and saw Shapeshifter trolling all over the channel16:13
javispedroGAN900: web 3.0!16:13
sivangjavispedro: ah, I see16:14
Stskeepsdid anyone spot 'And there’s even more great news. Ovi Music Store is now accessible right from your N900 (where available). You can use your inbuilt browser to access and download your favorite tunes straight to your device in DRM-free format.' ?16:14
* MohammadAG saw it16:14
javispedroStskeeps: wtf16:14
MohammadAGcouldn't care less16:14
sivangStskeeps: actually that was somewhat known in the sprint already :)16:14
raimodoes that meant it's free?16:14
GAN900Stskeeps, shill. :P16:14
MohammadAGraimo, no, it means it's DRM-free16:14
sivangStskeeps: one of the reasons for me to upgrade as well16:14
crashanddieElAngelo, sorry, you must have some foo I don't, I've not seen Shapeshifter troll anyone.16:14
Stskeepsi could reason with DRM-free music and paying for it.16:15
StskeepsDRM'ed music, fuck no16:15
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crashanddieI want lossless encoding on music I pay for16:15
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: so drop that idea of security framework!16:15
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sivangDocScrutinizer: There's a such?16:16
ElAngelothen i misunderstood the quotes16:16
crashanddieElAngelo, it would appear so indeed.16:16
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eraniStskeeps: yeah... I buy all of my music there so that was a nice upgrade :)16:16
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javispedroI would be happy about such a thing16:17
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crashanddie~factinfo pr1.316:17
infobotpr1.3 -- created by noobmonk3y <> at Tue May 25 07:13:59 2010 (153 days); last modified 1h 30m 44s ago  by DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 45 times, last by hrw, 27s ago.16:17
javispedrogives me good vibes about "open mode" kernel in harmattan security framework16:17
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eraniit was literally as painful as shooting my own leg when I bought a 20 song collection album and I had to tap the download icon one by one at each song, wait for the page to refrest etc...16:17
sivangjavispedro: feels like a hack, is thee no lib for playing with mount?16:18
crashanddieDocScrutinizer, somehow, I knew it could only be you :P16:18
sivangjavispedro: re
javispedrosivang: well, there's this "mount" syscall ;)16:18
sivangjavispedro: but it was not used :-PP16:18
infobot[pr1.2] available since early Tuesday morning. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update16:18
MohammadAG~forget pr1.316:19
infoboti forgot pr1.3, MohammadAG16:19
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: best most precise and accurate info I could offer to infobot16:19
sivangMohammadAG: dangerous to the device?16:19
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sivangjavispedro: execing commands like mount scares me...16:19
MohammadAGsivang, huh?!16:19
sivangjavispedro: from a c program16:19
sivangMohammadAG: you made infobot forget 1.316:19
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crashanddiesivang, you know what's really scary? Calling rm -rf from a perl script.16:20
javispedrosivang: well.. the entire thing already runs on root, what could go wrong? ;)16:20
crashanddieyou never know what that / might turn into16:20
sivangjavispedro: HA HA HA HA16:20
* javispedro notes that until recently, ALL, ALL, EACH and EVERY program on the Palm Pre ran as the root user16:20
MohammadAG~pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update16:20
infobot...but pr1.3 is already something else...16:20
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MohammadAG~forget pr1.316:20
infoboti forgot pr1.3, MohammadAG16:20
MohammadAG~pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update16:20
infobotokay, MohammadAG16:20
javispedroMohammadAG: pm with infobot instead of such noises16:21
infobotwell, flashing is
MohammadAGjavispedro, <infobot> Stop abusing forget!16:21
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rmrfchikwell, app manager dont want to upgrade system. it wan ovi suite to do it16:21
crashanddie~no, pr1.3 is is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday 25th October 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update16:21
Arkenoii bet OTA won't pass again16:21
Khertanrmrfchik, conflick package ... go to details and remove conflicting package16:21
javispedrono wonder16:21
rmrfchikArkenoi: chmoke16:21
crashanddieMohammadAG, please don't insult us by using american date format16:21
javispedroeveryone here uses extras-devel,16:21
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crashanddiejavispedro, nope, I don't16:22
rmrfchikKhertan: ah.. it may be MohammadAG's fixes :)16:22
Khertani don't too16:22
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javispedroand I counted every time someone uploaded a package breaking SSU there: it's in the hundreds.16:22
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javispedrocrashanddie: and did OTA work for you?16:22
MohammadAGcrashanddie, lol it wasn't on purpose, I just copied the date from Ubuntu's top bar16:22
sivangcrashanddie: hehe16:22
crashanddiejavispedro, dunno, N900 is with the gf16:22
MohammadAGMonday, October 25 2010 <-- is how it's output from the top gnome-panel16:22
Khertanrmrfchik, yep MohammadAG fixes and python2.5-qt416:22
Arkenoiactually OTA *never* worked for anyone with reasonable number of apps installed16:22
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crashanddieMohammadAG, then gnome-panel is obviously broken.16:22
sivangrmrfchik: that means you need to reflash, fwiw16:22
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, heh16:23
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javispedroArkenoi: I'm 100% sure it would work here, but that's because I smell apps breaking it from a hundred miles16:23
rmrfchiksivang: i will revert modest, pulse and desktop16:23
Arkenoiso i do not expect it to work now, either16:23
rmrfchikwill see16:23
KhertanArkenoi, works for me ... just remove conflicting package16:23
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viszoh, now i have PR1.3 at OTA16:23
javispedro(unfortunately, and due to sdl-ttf bug, most of my apps also break it... :( )16:23
sivangArkenoi: yes, but I guess this is not something for Maemo to solve already16:23
MohammadAGfunny, I don't get any updates on the leaked 1.316:23
povbotBug 9089: Upgrading Maemo itself (nokia official recommended upgrade) failed with "no enough space" on target device.16:23
viszwith Sonera Finland16:23
MohammadAGmeaning the released 1.3 is actually a released testing image?16:23
ArkenoiKhertan, ah, yes, and spend a few hours trying to find out which one is to blame and even more cleaning up / space16:24
X-Fadejavispedro: ttf was changed in pr1.316:24
kPb_in_i just update my n900.. how can i check if its pr 1.3 or not?16:24
eranikPb_in_: go to settings -> device information16:24
nidOArkenoi: or just look16:24
Oli```Is there a reason I can't see the update in update manager? I'm in the UK on an unlocked, unbranded straight-from-nokia N900.16:24
Arkenoisivang, that's what i expected16:24
eraniit should be running fw version 20.2010.36-216:24
javispedroX-Fade: everyone who upgraded to borked package will be able to SSU?16:24
Shapeshifter"You can now enter a lowercase letter at the beginning of a sentence." is my favourite bugfix for 1.316:24
KhertanArkenoi, it take me 10min16:25
alteregokPb_in_: in the settings application goto about product and the version should say 20.2010.36-216:25
chem|stOli```: nope16:25
MohammadAGjavispedro, no, but they will be able to downgrade to the old one16:25
Khertanjust read the detail in the update16:25
javispedroX-Fade: or -- more like everyone who upgraded to it will NOT be able to? :)16:25
kPb_in_erani, u meant About product?16:25
chem|stShapeshifter: **16:25
eranikPb_in_: err, yes :P16:25
javispedroX-Fade: (not blaming you ofc)16:25
Arkenoistill flash 9, i guess?16:25
kPb_in_erani, alterego cool thanx :)16:25
Oli```chem|st: so I should be able to see it?16:25
SceltShapeshifter: where's the changelog?16:25
RST38hMohammad: I have got your SSU installed (no PR1.3 yet). Anything I should know about?16:25
javispedroMohammadAG: not until -devel is rebuilt!16:25
X-Fadejavispedro: No idea, why don't you try it out ;)16:25
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alteregoCan /scratchbox be a symlink?16:26
javispedroalterego: it can be a bind mount...16:26
kPb_in_PR 1.3 was suppose to bring meego dual boot right?16:26
chem|stOli```: I had that problem with 1.2 it showed in the install pages but not in the update page16:26
KhertanShapeshifter, mine is the fix in the QListView scrolling :)16:26
X-FadekPb_in_: No.16:26
chem|stkPb_in_: yes16:26
MohammadAGchem|st, no16:26
crashanddieI just had an email from some headhunter16:26
viszkPb_in_, i don't know, but what i read from the blog, it gives the ability to do a dual boot16:26
DocScrutinizeralterego: rm -rf /scratchbox, a nice way to kill your system16:27
ShapeshifterKhertan: what does it do?16:27
tybolltcrashanddie: googlers?16:27
MohammadAGno no no!16:27
chem|stMohammadAG: thats what they said?!16:27
crashanddietybollt, dunno16:27
raimolooks like my way of first updating with Faster Application Manager and then with the build in one worked :p16:27
* tybollt was headhunted for the current job...16:27
MohammadAGPR1.3 brings kexec patches to the kernel by default16:27
raimoalthough it didn't allow me to update with the build in one first16:27
raimoI had like 68Mt free16:27
crashanddietybollt, the guy is basically telling me off for them having _my_ CV in _their_ records, and that I'm not fit for the job.16:27
KhertanShapeshifter, the viewport didn't remember well is original position16:27
MohammadAGit doesn't allow dual booting without a boot menu16:27
KhertanShapeshifter, it s fixed in qt4.7 :)16:27
eraniumm, is ovi store working for you guys? I can't click on anything on the store site after opening it from main menu16:27
chem|stMohammadAG: ah well16:27
Khertancrashanddie, as usual16:27
ShapeshifterScelt: couldn't find a changelog but apparently there's one on tmo but google hasn't cached it yet (or I couldn't find the cached version). Just hear-say from some random maemo page16:27
tybolltcrashanddie: uhm... did you even apply for it..?16:27
MohammadAGKhertan, check QTextBrowser in 4.716:28
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: BS, nigerian 2.016:28
chem|stMohammadAG: keep sorting nuts for size pls16:28
SceltShapeshifter: okay16:28
crashanddietybollt, hint, I never applied. I sent him a response explaining I didn't apply for anything, and he responded by saying "Please stop wasting my time"16:28
KhertanMohammadAG, :)16:28
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chem|stcrashanddie: behave!16:28
MohammadAGKhertan, I think it's broken :P16:28
crashanddieDocScrutinizer, no no, the company is legit, and so are the phone numbers.16:28
tybolltcrashanddie: that's when you are to reply by means of dead cats in his mail or some such ;)16:28
DocScrutinizerso spam their phone16:28
Khertancrashanddie, most of time if i ve free time ... i wait for a meeting16:28
Khertanto insult them :)16:28
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Khertanit s more funny16:29
tybolltcrashanddie: anyway that was alarmingly retarded of that bloke... :-/16:29
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RST38hnot unusual though16:30
KhertanYouhou ... Khweeteur Scrolling bug magically fixed by Qt4.716:30
tybolltRST38h: Really? I've only ever really had ... positive exeperience of the head hunters...16:31
rmrfchikhehehe, it was /etc/apt/preferences with pinned modest16:31
tybolltI may be the odd one out16:31
KhertanRST38h, usual in france16:31
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rmrfchikremove preferences before upgrading16:31
tybolltKhertan: A rude frenchman? YOU DON'T SAY!?!?!16:32
* sivang boogles at freeswitch not passing and inbound call16:32
sivangtybollt: hehe16:32
Khertangot the same experience ten or twenty time16:32
DocScrutinizerrmrfchik: thou shalt not play with pins!16:32
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auenferr, maemo update?16:32
sivangauenf: so it seems16:32
tybolltDocScrutinizer: Needles however... ;)16:32
rmrfchikDocScrutinizer: blame MohammadAG!16:32
eranioh well... it seems that after the update ovi store website doesn't work correctly for half of the time -.-16:32
tybolltrmrfchik: We all do...16:32
auenf1.3, or something minor?16:32
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DocScrutinizerI'm blaming MohammadAG since a week, for not building my kernel16:33
rmrfchikit hope it will not format my home partition16:33
hawaii_Why would it?16:34
rmrfchikI'm blaming MohammadAG  for bad weather here16:34
Khertannumber look like the same as the leaked firmware16:34
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rmrfchikhawaii_: dunno. I expect all from nokia16:34
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auenfhmm, update claims to be 20.2010.36-216:34
tybolltDocScrutinizer: can I join this facebook club?16:34
DocScrutinizerwtf is facebook?16:35
rmrfchikDocScrutinizer: do u know /facepalm?16:35
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rmrfchikit's the same, but with books16:36
javispedroDocScrutinizer: Facebook is the opposite of Orwell's 1984' "Memory Hole"16:36
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auenffacebook is where only part-time computer users go to play flash games16:36
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DocScrutinizerwatch the doc to lrn2troll16:36
javispedroauenf: and full-time, from watching students's monitors =)16:37
DocScrutinizerrmrfchik: wouldn't be bricks much more effective?16:37
DocScrutinizerthan books16:37
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chem|stauenf: where do fulltime computer geeks play flash games?16:37
auenfjavispedro, students dont have anything else to do but play facebook games it seems16:37
seba_quick question. I updated some qt mobility libraries (after removing libqt4-xxx), I see update available from apt-get but nothing in app manager. Should I use apt-get or just wait more?16:38
auenfchem|st, on their N900's16:38
chem|stauenf: true16:38
Arkenoiwell, i have 20mb free on /, i guess i should not even bother to try OTA, as expected :-/16:38
chem|stauenf: I got no flash games...16:38
Shapeshifterauenf: what is much more disturbing is that so many developers seem to have nothing better to do than *write* facebook games16:38
dolpso how does the maemo/meego dualboot system work?16:38
auenfbut they dont limit themselves facebook games, they actually play real games16:38
Stskeepsdolp: it shows an interactive flash demo and people can't tell the difference.16:39
l0up_ahh, uninstalled libgles1-sgx-img and got OTA update working..16:39
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chem|stdolp: with a bootloader16:39
auenfhmm, 0:3716:39
Shapeshifterl0up_: was the same for me. it killed off a couple of games16:39
auenfthats not a good time to start installing a maemo update16:39
auenfwill sleep instead16:39
rmrfchikArkenoi: just uninstall shit and clean root16:39
chem|stArkenoi: try it depends on other space than /16:39
rmrfchikrootfs                  227.9M    199.9M     23.8M  89% /16:40
rmrfchikthis is _during_ installation16:40
jacekowskiN9 looks nice16:40
MohammadAGjacekowski, ?16:40
chem|stjacekowski: subjective...16:40
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: poor trolling16:40
seba_is apt-get update the right way? ... anyone?16:40
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jacekowskithere is a video on youtube16:41
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: ?16:41
Stskeepsdolp: technically we don't really require pr1.3 for it..16:41
Myrttijacekowski: an official Nokia video?16:41
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rmrfchikseba_: I do16:41
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Stskeepsdolp: we'll be using u-boot16:41
rmrfchikseba_: more over, upgrading is on the way16:41
DocScrutinizerdolp: boot chainload16:41
oshincan I update pr1.3 without windows?16:41
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jacekowskioshin: yes16:41
oshinit says something about nokia suite16:41
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DocScrutinizerdolp: unrelated to pr1.316:42
eranierr, jacekowski isn't that just e7...16:42
sivangso anything on the positive side for today? :)16:42
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dos1Nokia PC Suite message should be placed in topic I think ;)16:42
* javispedro wonders what happened to those days where the question was "can I update to XXX with windows?"16:42
sivangbesides TMO missing in action, pr1.3 issues etc16:42
seba_rmrfchik, thanks. will go with that then.16:42
sivangjavispedro: heh16:42
MohammadAGjacekowski, E7, meh16:42
Myrttioh jebus, his speech makes my teeth grate16:43
rmrfchikseba_: I was said to use app manager for upgrade. And I followed advise16:43
hrwso how much space in rootfs is needed for upgrade?16:43
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DocScrutinizerprolly 47M as usual :-P16:44
petterioshin: for me helped to remove these packages: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img . Before that it would not upgrade16:44
auenfyup, all the 'n9' stuff that was previewed (that all still had symbian ui) is just the E716:44
* GAN900 is sorely tempted by a MacBook Air.16:44
seba_I wonder why nothing come up in app manager while apt-get shows 66mb of available archives16:44
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chem|stseba_: dont install!16:44
oshinpetteri, ok, thanks a lot.16:44
ArkenoiAs expected, it wants me to flash via USB :-/16:45
alteregoGAN900: NOOOOOO!!!!!16:45
javispedroGAN900: the very same GAN-the-netbook-hater is interested in Apple's Netbook offerings? =)16:45
hrwDocScrutinizer: thx16:45
chem|stit is about 80 and as ussual it will break because of the missing 25mb16:45
auenfneed to flash via usb cause not enough rootfs?16:45
sivangauenf: what's E7?16:45
sivanggpd: don't go THERE!!!16:45
hrw41M free - time to regain space16:45
erani :P16:45
Arkenoi*AS EXPECTED*, there is no further diagnostics.16:45
sivangthat was16:45
auenfn8 with a keyboard essentially16:46
sivangGAN900: don't go there!! We must fight the temptation!16:46
sivangauenf: I ee16:46
sivangor should I say, I eee16:46
hawaii_Er, not really.16:46
javispedroerani: lol16:46
hawaii_It has the same "build" as the N8.16:46
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MohammadAGwhy isn't /var/lib/dpkg optified?16:47
MohammadAGit gets huge16:47
hawaii_It has an EDoF camera, and drops microsd, however.16:47
auenffar too many phone buyers buy on design of the phone only ;)16:47
hawaii_It feels great.16:47
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hawaii_But the nHD resolution kills it, IMHO.16:47
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: because HAM is moving it dynamically to MyDocs?16:47
rmrfchikoj, kernel is updating... my overclocks!!!16:47
sivangMohammadAG: good question16:47
GAN900javispedro, netbook hater?16:48
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, impossible16:48
* GAN900 currently owns a Mini 9.16:48
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, that16:48
sivangDocScrutinizer: oh16:48
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MohammadAGthat's /var/lib/apt16:48
MohammadAG/var/lib/dpkg is NOT optified16:48
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sivangGAN900: stick to it, don't help Apple ales16:48
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: wild guess, nothing more16:48
sivangGAN900: *sales16:48
eranii own an eeepc 1000h w 10.10 right now, but my personal opinion would be that I'd never buy a thousand-dollar mini-pc...16:48
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GAN900I'd like something that can handle RAW, though.16:48
sivangGAN900: LG T380 UV16:49
* rmrfchik uses eee 901. it's just a magic with my debian16:49
sivangGAN900: great machine, apart for very screwed up keyboard.16:49
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rmrfchikbut it so suck in c++ for n900 development :(16:49
GAN900sivang, you'll be very disappointed by my Mac Pro, then. :P16:49
sivangGAN900: once I get meego onboard it, it will be even better16:49
sivangGAN900: oh:/16:49
GAN900sivang, screwed up keyboard is a non-starter.16:49
tybolltGAN900: which one? The new thin one?16:50
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sivangGAN900: well, I have a hunch it is ubuntu's too obtrusive throttling or something, so need to test with meego16:50
alteregoherm, scratchbox hathor does not have svn devkit packages :/16:50
rmrfchikwell.. seems like it was updated OK. at least, it asked me pin16:50
sivangGAN900: I was able to build Qt 4.7 on it in 4 hours, including everything. Not bad for a netbook no?16:50
javispedroGAN900:didn't you something alone the lines of "a tablet/nit for mobile stuff, a laptop/workstation for big stuff"?16:51
sivangalterego: were you able to upgrade your 1.2 sb?16:51
sivangalterego: it completely brok emine16:51
javispedroalterego: grab apophis devkits, they work16:51
javispedrosivang: what you mean? I use hathor sb since it was released16:51
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alteregosivang: luckily I'm actually just reinstalling my laptop.16:51
GAN900javispedro, I'm now needing something that can handle 18MP photos on the road, though.16:52
auenfbetter get an alienware then16:52
RST38hGAN: A camera maybe? =)16:52
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tybolltGAN900: thinkpad X201s, core i7, 6GB RAM, SSD, ~1kg. That's what I have :)16:53
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alteregoIt's kind of annoying, I always thought tablets-dev was the first to get updasted.16:53
* lbt touches "update"16:53
MohammadAGholy shit16:53
MohammadAGsdk update16:53
sivangMohammadAG: broke completely16:53
* sivang will reinstall Maemo SDK16:53
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Khertanouch ... they slow down scrolling ...16:54
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* RST38h trembles at the thought of updating SDK+/SB2 16:54
Khertanin pr1.316:54
sivangthat's bad16:54
lbt"to update you must use PC suite..." ?16:54
KhertanRST38h, do python code no need for sdk and sb216:54
sivangit was already slow in 1.216:54
Khertanlbt, now touch the details16:54
sivanglbt: the infamous upgrade bug16:54
hrwKhertan: in qt?16:54
MohammadAGsivang, how16:54
Khertanlbt, and remove the conflicting package you see :)16:54
dolpmadde update..16:54
lbtit just says "backup"16:54
GAN900Khertan, how could scrolling get slower. . . .16:55
Khertanlbt, before the intall :)16:55
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MohammadAGreinstalling is for the faint hearted :P16:55
KhertanGAN900, there is less inertia16:55
Khertanhrw, in hildon-desktop16:55
* GAN900 facepalms.16:55
GAN900It's like Nokia hates usability.16:55
Khertanhrw, :)16:55
MohammadAGless inertia = faster scrolling16:55
lbtKhertan: thanks.... non-obvious :)16:55
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JaffaTsk. TMO down?16:56
KhertanMohammadAG, ==more touch down to scroll == so more16:56
DocScrutinizertmo MIA16:56
MohammadAGJaffa, yes16:56
MohammadAGKhertan, where?16:56
JaffaMohammadAG: Any chance of a fremantle-1.3.1 with the Modest patches?16:56
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alteregoSo, is there an updated madde sysroot too? :D16:56
KhertanMohammadAG, hildon-desktop application menun16:56
alteregoAnd Nokia Qt SDK?!16:56
sivangKhertan: I did not see any conflicting packages16:56
Khertanhopefully it s not the case in microb16:57
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GAN900"New update! We threw in some bug fixes, but we need to figure out how to make it less usable and more obnoxious."16:57
Khertanouf ...16:57
MohammadAGKhertan, check transitions.ini16:57
rmrfchikdamn.. not enough memory for install16:57
MohammadAGJaffa, sure, I was waiting for 1.316:57
KhertanMohammadAG, never touch it :)16:57
MohammadAGJaffa, now I can announce the SSU, when I fix HAM and make it accept it16:57
KaffeeJunky123can maemo make phone calls with a nokia n900 ;P?16:57
Khertanrotate in khweeteur is faster too16:57
* DocScrutinizer YAWNS at all 1.3 hype16:57
javispedroGAN900: hey, better than the last time where they less usable part was not trivially noticed :)16:57
MohammadAGKhertan, I'm asking you to16:57
KhertanMohammadAG, where is it located ?16:58
MohammadAGKhertan, check if /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini has deceleration_rate16:58
* DocScrutinizer doesn't see a single point in updating right now16:58
hawaii_Neither me.16:58
KhertanDocScrutinizer, Qt4.716:58
Khertanfix many bugs :)16:58
alteregoI can see this being a bit of a fail ..16:59
DocScrutinizerI fixed all bugs that annoyed me, without 1.316:59
KaffeeJunky123qt4.7? that's newer stuff than my desktop runs16:59
alteregoWe all update to PR1.3 and there's no Nokia Qt SDK to develop with16:59
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hrwKhertan: rotating in khweeteur was awful...16:59
tybolltDocScrutinizer: that means you have the changelog then?16:59
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KaffeeJunky123I thought maemo was focused on hildon ui?16:59
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tybolltalterego: isn't that the exact same "chicken or the egg" problem that struck us last time around? :-S17:00
* KaffeeJunky123 just ordered a nokia n900 yesterday and is very eager to find out about maemo stuff17:00
eraniwelcome on board17:00
StskeepszImage-2.6.28-20103103+0m5 is PR1.3 kernel?17:00
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hrw1007 packages to upgrade - nice set17:00
alteregoWell, I suppose we have scratchbox ....17:00
KaffeeJunky123erani: not quite yet, the phone is yet to be delivered17:01
auenf<DocScrutinizer> I fixed all bugs that annoyed me, without 1.3 <-- mail client?17:01
Khertanalterego, Nokia Qt SDK is useless !17:01
Shapeshifteroh damn17:01
* GAN900 contemplates attempting the upgrade on EDGE17:01
KaffeeJunky123erani: I hope my prior linux experience will help with maemo, I'm using debian stable as my main os on my desktop.17:01
DocScrutinizerthere's no bug annoying me in modest, as I largely ignore modest17:01
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Shapeshifterthe hildon desktop conf was overwritten ....17:01
alteregoPR1.3 is now on tablets-dev17:01
jacekowskimodest is slow and slow17:01
jacekowskiand slow17:01
sivangalterego: what do you mean? wouldn't the nokia qt sdk work on Maemo 1.3?17:01
Shapeshifterwhy do they do that. that's what I call broken17:01
MohammadAGWHAT, THE, FUCK17:02
auenfalternative to modest then?17:02
tybolltMohammadAG: ???17:02
KaffeeJunky123that's what I call make backups inb4 updating ^^17:02
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MohammadAGit's older than my package17:02
ShapeshifterKaffeeJunky123: configs aren't supposed to be deleted on linux.17:02
alteregoNo UK varient ..17:02
MohammadAGKhertan, it's quite awesome really :)17:02
KaffeeJunky123Shapeshifter: I know, but just in case17:02
MohammadAGjacekowski, modest is old old old, I'll update my package for 1.317:02
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DocScrutinizerauenf: Konversation/Kmail17:02
KhertanMohammadAG, ? the .ini ?17:03
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X-Fadealterego: not yet.17:03
MohammadAG<alterego> PR1.3 is now on tablets-dev where?17:03
DocScrutinizerauenf: and even that is at it's limits with my mail17:03
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alteregoX-Fade: well, I always use the global variant anyway ^.^17:03
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KaffeeJunky123Shapeshifter: you never know when updates'll blow up things, it's not a linux only rule17:03
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MohammadAGhildon-desktop in 1.3 is not the latest git source17:03
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javispedrowell, PR1.3 is released, start wishing for PR1.4. rinse-repeat.17:04
alteregoNo updated eMMC content though ^.^17:04
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ShapeshifterKaffeeJunky123: on linux, the rule is: don't overwrite configs and if you have to put a new config in place because of broken compatiblity, then make a backup before doing so.17:04
maybeWTFjavispedro: think big. PR1.6!17:04
Khertanjavispedro, last hildon-desktop :)17:04
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ask for ~pr1.5!17:04
Khertanhum ... map start faster17:04
* alterego starts speculating about PR1.417:04
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javispedroPR1.4 will end world hunger! again!17:04
maybeWTFdoes it have voice navigation now?17:04
alteregoMaybe we should just start trolling users on tmo17:04
* maybeWTF ducks & covers17:04
KaffeeJunky123Shapeshifter: wich simply means some packet maintainer fucked up the update17:04
phrykdid anyone get the new maemo update working without the pc suite??17:04
ShapeshifterKaffeeJunky123: some *nokia* package maintainer ^^17:05
Arkenoiwhere is pr1.3 fiasco image? i give up with ota.17:05
eraniphryk: yeah17:05
RST38halterego: tmo down, too many lemmings today, too loud screams17:05
ShapeshifterKhertan: I don't think it starts faster17:05
KaffeeJunky123Shapeshifter: nothing less to expect from them I guess17:05
eranimaybeWTF: no there's not17:05
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phrykerani: how much space did you have free on /17:05
alteregoCan everyone wait until I've downloaded it though, I don't want to have to wait an hour for the image to download if everyone starts ripping it ..17:05
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MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/Desktop/PR1.3$ md5sum RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin17:05
MohammadAGb9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784  RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin17:05
MohammadAGthat's the leaked image17:05
KaffeeJunky123I see the N900 as a nerd toy capable of making phone calls, is that about right?17:05
MohammadAGb9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784  RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin this is the official one17:06
alteregoIf you'd all kindly wait 7 minutes for my download to complete ;)17:06
eraniphryk: 84mb17:06
phrykKaffeeJunky123: seems right17:06
maybeWTFKaffeeJunky123: pretty much17:06
phrykerani: i have 81.2mb free17:06
RST38hmohammad, yes, we know17:06
KaffeeJunky123so it is what I want =)17:06
MohammadAGleaked = official, I'm disappointed17:06
javispedrodoesn't surprise me.17:06
phrykerani: sure that it was the update that came out today? o_O17:06
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secyritasMohammadAG: lol, then I flashed the official one for nothing ...17:06
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eraniphryk: yeah :P double and triple-checked today17:06
javispedroMohammadAG: "disappointed" is the only word that comes after a PR update. You eventually realize it and stop wishing for those :)17:06
erani(not really, but yeah it's the correct one)17:06
Khertanjavispedro, having qt4.7 make me happy :)17:07
eraniI'm actually looking forward to Qt Ovi Maps with the voice navigation to N900... but I'm quite sceptical for it to come on the device, but you never know...17:07
hawaii_No voice nav, sir.17:07
alteregoDamn, the leaked was the official global image?17:07
GAN900I really wish17:07
ShapeshifterMeh. no good. modest still doesn't upload sent emails using IMAP17:08
GAN900somebody would replace Nokia17:08
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alteregoOr maybe the chinese have hacked tablets-dev ..17:08
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rlinfatiHi, on pr1.3 (ota version) the repository for OVI is ? is correct ?17:08
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sivangthat is funny17:08
ShapeshifterGAN900: isn't intel replacing nokia? ^^17:08
phrykerani: weird, ill try to free the remaining 2mb :/17:08
hrwShapeshifter: you expected sane mailer in maemo?17:08
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KaffeeJunky123Shapeshifter: aren't there dozens of other mail clients you could possibly use?17:08
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so version number was identical for leaked and current?17:08
sivangalterego: so I need to do work in between, 1.3 does not have a compatble qt sdk yet?17:08
Shapeshifterhrw: expect? no. have a glimmer of hope? yes17:08
sivangalterego: or madde cross compilation env or am I fuding?17:09
eraniphryk: no rush, Scelt had only ~60mb free, but you'll have to remove two packages to do the update (if you have them installed)17:09
alteregosivang: should do in scratchbox, but no madde sysroot17:09
sivangalterego: ah I see, back to the good 'o days17:09
phrykerani: which ones?17:09
ShapeshifterKaffeeJunky123: not really. they're not made for mobile use. apart from the sent mail thing and the fact that you cannot select text when viewing an email, modest is okay.17:09
Shapeshifterat least for me17:09
sivangalterego: how did you confirm that, tried deploying from creator to the new 1.3 running image?17:09
eraniphryk: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img17:09
hrwShapeshifter: lose all hope the ones who use maemo - or sth like that wrote one guy eons ago...17:09
alteregoGAN900: do you think a lot of our frustration and ill will towards Nokia, in fact I don't have any, but most peoples is actually because, what other company can anyone say they've worked so hard and close to for the past 4 years?17:10
eranisorry, took some time to scroll the logs for those pkg names...17:10
sivangKaffeeJunky123: it is also quite slow17:10
alteregoFor a community.17:10
fralsShapeshifter: hold shift and select the text you want?17:10
GAN900alterego, and what other company exists that manages to deliver a platform and product that's half as much as what Maemo is?17:10
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, version number? meh, md5sums are equal17:10
alteregoMaybe because I'm not interested, but does microsoft/MSDN ever do what Nokia have done for/with us?17:10
sivangalterego: things aren't that bad. Maemo was and still provides the best development experience in my taste.17:10
Shapeshifterfrals: !!!17:11
sivangre: openess and able to tinker with down stuff17:11
lardmanAnyone have any working QtMobility QContact related code?17:11
alteregosivang: I don't think things are bad at all, I'm still having fun17:11
Shapeshifterfrals: thanks! I didn't know about that :<17:11
KaffeeJunky123sivang: as long as emacs runs on it :>17:11
fralsMohammadAG: md5sum are broken afaik ;-)17:11
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: your bug-bashing was a 110% success stroy it seems17:11
eranibesides - you don't have to pay 99$ per year to develop on n900 \o/17:11
SpacedOutIf I upgrade to PR 1.3 do I loose the power kernel or do I wait for a new power kernel or what?17:11
alteregoI'm merely talking about GAN900's snipe at Nokia a minute ago :P17:11
phrykerani: i have neither of those17:11
sivangit's just that this community has already gotten used to so high standards, that they like to affection-complain about stuff.17:11
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eraniphryk: strange17:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784  RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin17:11
sivangerani: right!17:11
MohammadAGb9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 Official17:12
phrykerani: let me first try again17:12
fcrochiklardman: I have... mycontacts17:12
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phrykremoved lots of packages on my way^^;17:12
alteregoIf I'd known that, I would have got the leaked ;)17:12
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Shapeshifternokia will send you the source code of open source stuff used in maemo on CD if you request it by mail xD17:12
Commander1024phryk, and most of them were solely on emmc card, I suppose17:12
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alteregoWhen did the leak leak, it was only thursday last week wasn't it?17:13
fralsShapeshifter: np :)17:13
ShapeshifterI wonder if someone ever ordered one of those CDs.17:13
MohammadAGfrals, I'm thinking some other person (or company) is broken17:13
hawaii_alterego, Oct 8th.17:13
alteregoflashing n900 now17:13
MohammadAGQTextBrowser has a bug in the leaked version17:13
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MohammadAGI hope it's because of it being compiled against 4.6.217:13
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sivangoh YEAH!17:13
povbotBug 8747: Ringing tone selector crashes Settings application17:13
MohammadAGalterego, the image is dated week 3617:13
javispedroXXX has a bug!17:14
sivangso this is what 1.3 i about!17:14
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: could be fun to try :-)17:14
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sivangit is about my own precious bug that died some time ago...:-D17:14
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sivangthanks andre__17:14
* javispedro 's not getting any bugzilla spam, so... bad luck.17:14
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javispedro"try again next PR!"17:14
sivangpeople, we should all agree it is fun to be here, right?17:15
sivangjavispedro: HAHAHA17:15
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MohammadAGsivang, SDK update worked17:15
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sivangMohammadAG: okay, then something was crapped here17:15
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ask infobot about next PR, like ~pr1.4 and esp ~pr1.5 !17:15
GAN900sivang, hardly anymore.17:15
Shapeshifter lol nokia17:16
povbotBug 9963: Geolocation status in IM stops working after connection problem17:16
lardmanfcrochik: ah, great, will take a look17:16
eraniShapeshifter: :D17:16
Shapeshifter"Not critical enough to fix in Maemo5" it's *broken* half of the time17:16
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sivangShapeshifter: it is better to conceal your location, trust me.17:17
KaffeeJunky123they're probably focusing on maemo617:17
andre__sivang, sure :)17:17
GAN900"We don't have any resources committed to improving Maemo. It's still supported, though!"17:17
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fcrochiklardman: what are you looking for?17:17
sivangandre__: the problem is, I had some trouble reproducing after 1.2, I will try harder after 1.317:17
KaffeeJunky123you've the source code, so there are chances the community will fix it17:17
GAN900jaska, clearly the issue.17:17
lardmanfcrochik: adding a new contact17:17
sivangandre__: I wish we could add automatic regression testing for that17:18
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lardmanfcrochik: I'm parsing MECARDs decoded from QR code barcodes and trying to add them to the db17:18
sivangandre__: I mean, it is quite expansive to find out those things, so once we found it, it is better to memorate it for eternity17:18
fcrochiklardman: I haven't tried that... mycontacts is "readonly"17:18
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GAN900KaffeeJunky123, depends. We don't have source for many things.17:18
lardmanfcrochik: ok, well at least I can see how you got the correct QContactManager backend17:18
KaffeeJunky123GAN900: that's pretty stupid then ^^17:19
lardmanrather than just trying each in turn until one works which is my current method17:19
fcrochiklardman: cool idea! there is an example on git ...can't remember where I saw17:19
jaskadisable agps?:D17:19
DocScrutinizerwhere's the friggin changelog to convince me I want pr1.3?17:19
lardmanfcrochik: yeah I'm using an example I found, but I get an error, so thought I'd try to use something that is proven to work17:19
Shapeshiftersivang: how so?17:19
fcrochiklardman: that is the easy part....just use the default constructor.... there is only one backend for the n900... maemo517:20
lardmanDocScrutinizer: it's far snappier, that alone is worth it17:20
Shapeshiftersivang: all people in my jabber contacts are people I know personally. and I'm not that paranoid about anything else17:20
lardmanfcrochik: ah ok17:20
sivangShapeshifter: kidding :)17:20
sivangShapeshifter: I personally don't like to share location, that's all17:20
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GAN900andre__, has your job description been changed to "For the purpose of posterity" yet? :P17:20
DocScrutinizerlardman: sorry when I have a hard time believing in that17:20
fcrochiklardman: you won't find the souce code for mycontats on the repository but feel free to let me know and I will get you whatever I have17:20
lardmannp :D17:20
lardmanfcrochik: ok cheers17:21
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andre__GAN900: what job description? I thought I'd simply s/maemo/meego  :-P17:21
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: from a qt pov it might be very well be snappier (qt4.7)17:21
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DocScrutinizerlardman: are you sure this "much snappier" claim isn't caused by mere fact of reflashing clean, or simply removing cruft pkgs?17:22
lardmanDocscrutinizer: I did OTA17:22
* MohammadAG hates human psychology17:22
lardmanand only removed a couple of packages to clear some space, none of which run all the time17:22
MohammadAGwhy? cause it's shit17:22
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Shapeshifterit doesn't feel snappier to me17:23
xDaReaperxPR 1.3 yay !17:23
GAN900andre__, yeah, but they have Intel people to do your job in MeeGo. :P17:23
* MohammadAG remembers when someone said his device felt snappier cause of OCing, checked their device, it was @ 600MHz17:23
xDaReaperxhow will i know when the update comes on my phone ?17:23
MohammadAGhe only thought it was OC'd, and so, it felt snapper17:23
lardmanShapeshifter: oh, oh well17:23
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ACK!!17:23
maybeWTFMohammadAG: so the trick is to underclock?17:23
andre__GAN900: yeah, but they suck as much as the Nokians sucked ;-)17:23
VladNistorI'm using fapman for the upgrade, hope there won't be any issues17:23
DocScrutinizermaybeWTF: the trick is age old and called placebo17:24
KaffeeJunky123Intel people17:24
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KaffeeJunky123they're focused on their platform only17:24
sivangandre__: I should talk to timo and vilvo probably right? :)17:24
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KaffeeJunky123doubt they'll do anything about arm17:24
MohammadAGno tricks, our brains are shit17:24
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Stskeepsandre__: well, at least it seems like your subversive methods are having an effect :)17:24
* MohammadAG replaces brain with a core i717:24
KaffeeJunky123don't do it17:24
DocScrutinizerregistry optimizers (WinShit) using this 'trick' all the time17:25
VladNistori wouldn't do that MohammadAG, it can't program itself :))17:25
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ShapeshifterMohammadAG: our brains are quite good. they're just bad at maths.17:25
MohammadAGandre__, doesn't need a comment of yours :)17:25
povbotBug 10294: Email desktop widget does not display mails from Nokia Messaging accounts17:25
hrwVladNistor: I am using good old apt-get ;D17:25
andre__sivang: no idea who those both actually are, sorry :)17:25
hrwVladNistor: in remote ssh session17:25
KaffeeJunky123DocScrutinizer: didn't work for me, auctually those crappy tools tend to make windoze even slower17:25
sivangandre__: qa people. nevermind :)17:25
GAN900andre__, yeah, convincing they're managers of that is problematic, though.17:25
KaffeeJunky123DocScrutinizer: switching to gnu/linux helped though17:26
andre__sivang, maybe I have seen them of some list but not on a public mailinglist yet. but they are welcome to ;-)17:26
VladNistorhrw, yeah, that should work too. I think fapman doesn't store it's stuff on the small rootfs, so i shouldn't run into the issues some people are having with connecting to a pc17:26
sivangandre__: right, I was just looking for meeg-qa ml and failed17:27
Shapeshifterfapman *giggle*17:27
Stskeepsthere's meego-qa@17:27
Stskeepsand it just had a shitload of qa reports posted17:27
andre__sivang: so let's take over. I don't care if people have some position on a paper. It's what you *do* and act ;-)17:27
patrakovhi. while trying to work around the "flacs are not seekable" bug, I installed decibel-audio-player (from the official tarball) and all its dependencies17:27
andre__it's a great time for that. many things still to define :)17:28
hrwVladNistor: to tell the truth tricks which fapman does makes me want to hack fapman to stop doing it17:28
andre__Stskeeps, one intel person even answers part of my question on that mailing list (and doesn't answer a few others)17:28
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alteregotmo seems to be back17:29
andre__MohammadAG, Re 10294: Right. but I wonder what to do as 50% are WONTFIX and 50% are FIXED :-P17:29
patrakovproblem: it crashes on startup, unless I unset GTK2_RC_FILES. Any existing bug on that? How to debug?17:29
sivangandre__: okay, thanks :)17:29
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DocScrutinizeralterego: tmo maybe found some time to answer your request - that doesn't mean it's 'back'17:29
MohammadAGandre__, add a FIXED...NOT option to bugzilla17:30
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hrwanother 20 packages to install...17:30
sivangandre__: and nice to see you around, are you coming to meego-conf?17:30
hrwMohammadAG: you mean NOTABUGFORNOKIA?17:30
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chem|stturtles rule!17:31
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sivanghrw: that'll be better, at least fo rthe community17:31
andre__sivang, yepp. I even have a talk on MeeGo bugtriaging, but on Wednesday morning and after a party evening. I have the naive hope that some "MeeGo QA" people will attend so one could discuss17:32
hrwsivang: but community uses devices which will not be supported in nokiameego17:32
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hrwok, fingers crossed. rebooting n90017:32
DocScrutinizerandre__: abandon all hope17:32
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hrwsivang: so maemo5 bugs can be fixed or ignored. mostly are ignored17:33
sivangandre__: well, even if not,I have some hopes for my talk to create some traction and discussion, qa should be one of the subjects, although there are already quite some :)17:33
sivanghrw: some of the wontfix are sad, indeed.17:33
sivangthe upgrade one the most for me..17:33
hrw~hail wdgt_bd_done17:34
* infobot bows down to wdgt_bd_done and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"17:34
andre__sivang, when is yours?17:34
sivangas it is used as mockery of the platform by other platform owners17:34
hrwmy phone lost l10n17:34
sivangandre__: wed as well I think17:34
sivangandre__: and I have timeless to keep me realisitc :)17:35
VladNistorhrw, talking about fapman, it stopped after downloading 600/1021 packages17:35
sivangandre__: actually, it would help if you could come and provide you view of things, to be recorded and documented17:35
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sivangandre__: check the abstrac,t I don't want to log into the site too many times form here:)17:35
* hrw goes to change cpal_fi_pr_device_language17:36
javispedroWHAT. THE.17:37
hrwok, have a nice time /me -> other uds session17:37
javispedrolibgls1-sgx-img is broken again in this PR?17:37
javispedro(I did not try but already getting PMs about it...)17:37
hawaii_Define broken.17:37
javispedromismatched version with sgx-img-common17:37
X-Fadejavispedro: Every update will break apps. As it has strict dependencies.17:37
javispedro(uninstallable package)17:37
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javispedroX-Fade: the issue is that, not being part of the core image, its version number "falls behind". until someone realizes and bumps it, that is.17:38
hawaii_Are we talking post or pre update?17:38
hawaii_Yes, it is broken.17:38
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* javispedro prepares for the eventual PM flood, creates gmail filter for @tmo stuff17:39
tybolltis there any speculation as to N900 NG what it'll be and when it is due?17:39
tybolltthere was a (obviously fake) pic floating around...17:39
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hawaii_NIT NG? or what?17:40
hawaii_the N9 builds "off" the N90017:40
hawaii_E7-style device, N900-style internals.17:40
xDaReaperxi got this maemo 5 update shown on my mobile should i update guys ?17:40
xDaReaperxor charge my battery and update17:41
sivanganyway, off to freeswitch17:41
tybollthawaii_: URL? :)17:42
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xDaReaperxanyone ?17:42
tybolltxDaReaperx: having a fully charged battery prior to updating is always a good idea - good on you.17:42
xDaReaperxok ty17:42
xDaReaperxshould i update from the mobile17:42
xDaReaperxor use flasher ?17:43
tybolltsure, why not17:43
tybollttry OTA first17:43
xDaReaperxcause i read elsewhere you need vanilla emcc or something17:43
xDaReaperxi can install meego later right ?17:43
tybolltsure you can17:43
jarkkomwas there any kind of official changelog for pr1.3?17:43
xDaReaperxok ty17:44
tybolltjarkkom: everyone's asking, so far nothing...17:44
tybollt<-- official FAQ engine today... :-/17:44
DocScrutinizertybollt: thanks for that :-)17:44
lcuk<danielwilms> Venemo_N810: hey, the changelog is here:
danielwilmsBTW: hi lcuk17:45
* lcuk been busy today17:46
dolpis there any details about that dualboot option thing?17:46
alteregoI was actually just about to test kexec ;)17:46
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hawaii_Has work not shifted to uBoot?17:47
sivangalterego: ooo17:47
* sivang hopes for the 1.3 changelog to come soon17:47
jarkkomtoo bad there isn't qt mobility 1.1 yet for n900 as that would've added map widget to qt :|17:47
SpacedOutIf I upgrade to PR 1.3 do I loose the power kernel or do I wait for a new power kernel or what?17:47
sivangbut maybe it can be accessed from the HAM?17:47
DocScrutinizerdolp: dualboot as in meego is done via chainloading uBoot bootloader. It's not related to kexec17:47
* lcuk ponders 17:47
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sivangsorry for being blank (just say yes!) but what's the power kernel?17:47
oshinnokia sucks17:48
DocScrutinizer~tell sivang about pr1.317:48
alteregosivang: custom kernel that allows overclocking and has other stuff17:48
dos1upgrade to 1.3 from FAM should be safe, yes?17:48
alteregoApparently already had working kexec17:48
oshinbetter nuke maemo and stick with nitdroid or meego17:48
rmrfchikmy favivourite bug with l10n is not fixed17:48
SpacedOutsivang: The custom kernel with IPv6 and ext4 etc.17:48
oshinthey don't bother fixing silly bug that block the usage for my people17:48
oshinand don't release the source17:48
oshinstupid company with stupid engineers17:48
* oshin gets away17:49
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javispedrodos1: it is better to use application manager -- it will work nevertheless.17:49
alteregooshin: you're a nokia employee?!17:49
* chem|st patches tybollt with PR1.3 now available at
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dolpeMMC image going to be updated? (
DocScrutinizer~tell dolp about flashing17:52
tybollt wonder why DocScrutinizer does ~tell tybollt to GTFO all the time :(17:53
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DocScrutinizertybollt: ???17:53
dolpdoc ok :)17:53
Gh0styis it "normal" that sometimes while charging the orange led does not blink? :/17:53
tybolltDocScrutinizer: I was just joking around... never mind :)17:53
tybolltDocScrutinizer: I've a terrible sense of humour17:54
GAN900Gh0sty, usually means it's not actually charging.17:54
fralsoshin: yeah, blame the engineers, its probably their fault.......17:54
DocScrutinizersivang: I have to say the linked URL isn't a proper changelog either17:54
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Commander1024hmm, running the update via shell on an ssh session is much more convenient, and it doesnt complain about leeching it via umts or because of package conflicts17:55
javispedroor emergency charging17:55
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sivangDocScrutinizer: noted17:56
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infobotpr1.3 is, like, the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update, or
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Arkenoiany known conflicts for pr1.3? ussd widget? advanced kernel?17:58
rlinfatiArkenoi, libqt4-test18:00
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Gh0styGAN900: it is charging, if i look at the screen it shows the battery icon as charging ...18:00
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: MUHAHA18:00
Gh0stywhat? :p18:00
Gh0styghosts in the machine? :p18:00
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infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover18:00
ArGGu^^Since when upgrading the firmware over ssu requires PC Suite18:00
chem|stArGGu^^: since you have packages in conflict or not enough space18:00
MohammadAGQTextBrowser broken even when using 1.3 SDK, nice, it was working on 1.2 and now they broke it18:00
* MohammadAG cba to open a bug18:00
MohammadAGwon't be fixed18:00
ArGGu^^chem|st well then I must have conflict with packages18:00
alteregoMohammadAG: come on, of course it will PR1.4 ftw!18:00
chem|stArGGu^^: qt4 testing and gles-sdx18:00
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ArGGu^^I have not installed none of those18:00
oshinfrals, for being too stupid to fix a silly bug they invented in PR1.2 and my device can't sms anymore yes, i can blame them.18:00
MohammadAGalterego, meh18:01
chem|stuninstall some devel and testing apps...18:01
oshinsays, SMS18:01
ArGGu^^I only have apps from the extra18:01
sivangoshin: ah? what kindof bug?18:01
DocScrutinizererr, what's up with infobot and services18:01
sivangoshin: why does it stop SMS?18:01
oshinsivang, text input mess up for my language.18:01
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infobotDocScrutinizer: thanks18:02
oshinsivang, and I reported a bug a few months ago18:02
chem|stArGGu^^: then it is space18:02
ArGGu^^Just rembered I have one app that is not from maemo repos18:02
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keriohmm, how do i update with a half-broken usb port?18:02
chem|stkerio: wifi?18:03
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fralsoshin: yes, this is surely all nokia engineers fault, they are all idiots, lets burn em18:03
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keriochem|st: good point18:03
keriobut i updated libsdl18:03
kerioso i'm not sure if that will work18:03
* chem|st hands matches to oshin 18:03
oshinfrals, I didn't say all.18:04
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frals17:48:59 < oshin> stupid company with stupid engineers18:04
oshinsee there's no all in that18:04
fralstheres no word indicating anyone specific either18:05
lcuk^^^^^ frals is a nokia engineer and one of the worlds leading MMS developers :P18:05
oshinfrals, then it's your problem.18:05
oshinfrals, and like I care.18:05
phrykmaah wtf18:05
* kerio hugs frals18:05
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phryki can't update because the sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list is fucked up18:05
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phrykand not the repos i added, but the ones that are there by default o_O18:06
fralsoshin: please take your nokia complains to nokia care, they are happy to hear them18:06
fcrochikI just started a "apt-get dist-upgrade".... am I going to regret it?18:06
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Shapeshifterfcrochik: maybe18:06
fralsfcrochik: if you have devel/testing enabled you might18:06
oshinfrals, no, i won't, coz that's the reason why i will stop spending time with maemo18:06
fcrochikfrals: I surely do!18:06
chem|stfcrochik: depends on the active repos18:07
fralsfcrochik: chances are you will regret it then :)18:07
chem|stfrals: with sdk active sure he will18:07
ArGGu^^chem|st remove amsn but still wants pc suite, I have 25,69gb free for my docs and for apps 1,55gb free18:07
fcrochikfrals: great! I assume trying to stop will be even worst, right?18:07
keriooshin: so please do that18:07
javispedrokerio: you did what to libsdl?18:07
fralsoshin: please dont complain in the maemo community channel then18:07
chem|stArGGu^^: and /18:07
keriojavispedro: updated it18:07
jarkkomlooks like PR1.3 finally fixed my Ovi suite on my win7 64bit machines18:07
fralsfcrochik: dunno, im no expert, just going on past mistakes ;D18:07
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oshinkerio, i don't care18:08
phrykcan someone tell me what to put there instead of "./" ? i tried "fremantle-1.2 free non-free" but that did not work18:08
chem|stfcrochik: if it is still downloading just ctrl-c it18:08
* Arkenoi just never used ovi suite18:08
javispedrokerio: is it changed? O.o /me faints18:08
oshinfrals, i can sure don't care to leave my last words18:08
fcrochikchem|st: no...that is the problem has removed a lot of stuff already18:08
t_s_oforum taking a beating?18:08
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fralsyou seem to care a lot for someone whos not caring :)18:08
chem|stfcrochik: what was the install size?18:08
chem|stor dl size?18:08
fcrochikchem|st: don't remember but was a "lot"18:09
chem|stfcrochik: 84MB?18:09
ArGGu^^chem|st 85.7mb18:09
ArGGu^^in /18:09
chem|stArGGu^^: free?18:09
RST38hwhat is the ssu package name?18:10
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fcrochikchem|st: no is still removing... :(18:10
RST38hanyone knows?18:10
chem|stArGGu^^: then I dont know why it is requesting suite upgrade18:10
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kerioshould SSU just automagically work?18:10
chem|stfcrochik: screwed... but there is
ArGGu^^chem|st ok thanks for help18:10
hawaii_yes, SSU should "just work".18:10
fcrochikchem|st: one day I will learn to ask the question first....18:11
chem|stfcrochik: while it is deleting and upgrading let backup run18:11
Khertan<chem|st> <<-- probably a conflicting package18:11
fcrochikchem|st: I ran backup least!18:11
Khertanlibqt4-test is one possible18:11
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chem|stKhertan: is that in extras?18:12
Khertanjust read what it s say in the details about which are the conflicting package18:12
Khertanchem|st, probably not18:12
chem|stanswered yourself18:12
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Gh0styooh an update for maemo 5 :i18:12
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Gh0stypr 1.3 is out ? :o18:12
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Khertanchem|st, lol18:12
chem|stGh0sty: you are one of the faster people arent you?18:12
fcrochikit seems to be removing EVERY package on the device, including ALL applications18:12
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chem|stfcrochik: at least anything with hildon or osso in its name...18:13
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fcrochikchem|st: not just....every application (including the ones I created :( )18:13
xDaReaperxDoes the PR.13 show any changes ? like the browser loads faster ?18:13
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chem|stxDaReaperx: still removing stuff from flashing18:14
alteregoeverything seems the same to  me18:14
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xDaReaperxyeah must be only bug fixes18:14
fcrochikGREAT NEWS! yes! yes.... the phone just crashed! :(18:14
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xDaReaperxwill the MohammadAG's better kinetic scrolling interfere with the update ?18:14
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MohammadAGno, it'll just remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr18:15
xDaReaperxok ty18:15
chem|stxDaReaperx: at first view it seems to be a bit more responsive when on load18:15
felipecso there are no release notes?18:15
xDaReaperxyeah the browser starts up faster18:15
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xDaReaperxi think18:15
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alteregoI really don't notice a difference ..18:16
chem|stfelipec: no18:16
ArGGu^^chem|st in the updates details in summary tab also is that it needs PC Suite18:16
chem|stfelipec: at least not for devices18:16
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DocScrutinizeroshin: this is a cmmunity channel - send a mail to Nokia if you want to shout at them or let them know you're pissed. We dn't care and can't help18:16
chem|stArGGu^^: what does the installs show?18:17
RST38hMohammad: Should I remove the generic-pr package before installing PR1.3?18:17
MohammadAGhow are you installing it?18:17
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ArGGu^^chem|st there is not installs tab :S18:17
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ahynes1Has anyone tested PR 1.3 with power-kernel multiboot and or nitdroid?18:17
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oshinDocScrutinizer, I won't send one, I don't even bother with that anymore why you?18:18
RST38hMohammad: I still do not have it showing up in the HAM, but going to do it with apt-get install18:18
oshinjust let it go coz I already gave up.18:18
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ArGGu^^chem|st found the reason the is problems tab and it has conflict with libgles1-sqx-img18:18
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kerioso... where's the ssu18:19
chem|stArGGu^^: that I told you at the beginning18:19
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MohammadAGRST38h, you'll need to downgrade all 5 packages first18:19
oshinnot that I never sent, must let you know, they don't bother, actually i should sue them if I have time. so I let you know so you don't waste time suggesting anyone to do that.18:19
ArGGu^^chem|st yeah but why I have somtehing like that installed :S18:19
oshinthey don't care my problem.18:19
RST38hMohammadAG: could you pastebin necessary lines?18:19
MohammadAGRST38h, sedc18:19
felipecDocScrutinizer: there are some Nokia people here who do care18:19
felipecoshin: I don't know what's your problem, but if you reported a bug "a few months" ago, that was probably too late for PR1.318:20
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ahynes1Can anyone who has updated to PR 1.3 post the results of uname -a here?18:20
keriooh shit 93mb of archives18:20
keriois that right?18:20
kerioguys, help me here18:20
chem|stkerio: yeah the pr itself is about 8418:20
keriocan i just upgrade with apt?18:21
felipecahynes1: Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown18:21
MohammadAGahynes1, August 6 if that's what you want18:21
chem|sttry ham first18:21
oshinfelipec, 3 months ago, my bad then18:21
kerioham doesn't let me :(18:21
ahynes1felipec: That's what I was looking for...18:21
chem|stwhat does it say?18:21
chem|stkerio: use pc-suite?18:22
felipecoshin: no, it's not your fault, there just wasn't much time to fix that when your bug was posted18:22
xDaReaperxi'm using PC suit18:22
ahynes1Looks like it doesn't anything substantial the kernel, still 2.6.28 so power-kernel and nitdroid *should* still work.18:22
kerioif i could flash i'd just flash18:22
chem|stkerio: what? if yes you have a conflicting package18:22
felipecoshin: anyway, I recommend you contact Nokia customer support18:23
oshinfelipec, thanks, I did, several time18:23
chem|stlibgles1-sgx-img and qt4-test conflict18:23
oshinsee? I should sue them.18:24
oshinbut i won't waste my time.18:24
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oshincoz I don't use SMS18:24
chem|stoshin: what is it about anyway?18:24
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oshinbut the rest of others who were cheated18:24 down? :P18:24
oshinchem|st, forget about it. don't bother. let it goes, like river.18:25
MohammadAGthat should do it I suppose18:25
RST38hThanks, Mohammad! =)18:25
DocScrutinizeroshin: maybe we could fix this problem n community?18:25
MohammadAGif not, I'll need to get you the packages from my old SDK :)18:25
keriowhere should SSU appear, really?18:25
kerioapt tells me there are a thousand upgrades18:25
jacekowskisome people already had it18:26
RST38hWill try once I get home from work, looks like US still has not got PR1.318:26
oshinDocScrutinizer, I wasn't sure, there's no source. Thanks for a lot of your helps in the past I really appreciate them.18:26
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janifunny thing, tmo is not the fastest webserver today =)18:26
oshinmay be they need to learn a lesson for not to buy nokia product.18:26
ahynes1apt tells me I have 1042 packages to upgrade... I'm about to try an OTA upgrade.  Worked nicely when I went from 1.1 to 1.218:26
chem|stkerio: apt-get remove libgles1-sgx* qt4-test18:26
javispedrooshin: sue sue!18:26
chem|stkerio: and look into ham again18:27
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cosmosany armel developpers there?18:27
oshinjavispedro, there are a few more important stuffs I need to spend time in court.18:27
oshinjavispedro, may be if this happen again in my life, i will.18:27
DocScrutinizeroshin: I might want to have a look into it. Is there any bug report where it's precisely described how to reproduce the issue?18:28
MohammadAGalterego, is there a way to set background colour explicitly?18:28
oshinDocScrutinizer, #1074718:28
lcukoshin, bug 10747 you mean18:28
povbotBug Corrupted Thai text in conversation input box when using backspace.18:28
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oshinlcuk, yes.18:28
lcukplease use the bugbot correctly it helps people know what you are waffling about18:28
* DocScrutinizer .oO("maybe related to SMS PDU")18:28
alteregoMohammadAG: setStylesheet('background-color: #000000');18:28
keriooshin: so don't make mistakes :)18:28
ArGGu^^chem|st got it now to upgrade the libgles1 was in tuxrace depends, so thats whyt it was installed. Thanks for the help.18:29
oshinkerio, practically it is impossible to do that.18:29
cosmosHow to modify Makefile to compile armel?18:29
cosmosWhat are the cflags?18:29
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xDaReaperxi'm connecting the n900 using cable and through PC suit , my PC suit also detects the phone , but it keeps telling me  to update the device you must use PC suit on your PC18:31
prontois it worth it to upgrade to pr 1.3?18:31
ahynes1rst38h: I'm doing an OTA pr 1.3 in the U.S. as we speak18:32
RST38hpronto: no, stay with PR1.018:32
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RST38hahynes1: Does not let me do it18:32
MohammadAGalterego, without using styleSheets18:32
prontoeh? 1.0? :/18:32
alteregoMohammadAG: what's wrong with stylesheets?18:32
RST38hahynes1: do you know the exact package name by any chance?18:32
RST38halterego: they are evil?18:32
DocScrutinizerอาอา อาอา อาอ hmmm18:32
sivangRST38h: he's just a bit irritated :)18:32
sivangpronto:  ^^18:32
RST38halterego: They do not show up in Lynx?18:32
alteregoMohammadAG: well: hang on, I'll mock up a pastie as it's a couple of line worth18:32
sivangpronto: you can upgrade, but not sure what the result will be, handle with care (tm)18:33
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oshinDocScrutinizer, note that in my language it's Ah, Ah, Ahhhhh, hmmm18:33
sivangpronto: some of us had some tinkering to be done after the upgrade, or before18:33
ahynes1RST38h: I'm doing it from the command line:  sudo apt-get upgrade18:33
sivangsome conflicting packages, et al18:33
MilhouseProbably mentioned already but the PR1.3 images are now up on tablet-dev18:33
sivang~tell pronto 1.318:34
RST38hahynes: ok18:34
ahynes1Phase one is giving me 242 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 75 to remove and 802 not upgraded.18:34
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DocScrutinizeroshin: this is definitely not occurring in any other txt input field, just conversations?18:34
alteregoSomething liek that18:34
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ahynes1This is actually from removing a bad app.  Next, I'll do apt-get dist-upgrade to get the remaining 802 packages.18:34
sivang~tell pronto about pr1.318:35
oshinDocScrutinizer, yes, just the conversation18:35
sivanghmm, I am not godo at this18:35
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MohammadAGalterego, ty, rebooting18:35
oshinDocScrutinizer, may be something to do with the smiley support18:35
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DocScrutinizerquite reasonable assumption18:36
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sivangalterego: what's that brush doing?18:36
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* alterego installs his scratchbox targets18:36
alteregosivang: setting the background color of the widget :)18:36
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alteregoMohammadAG: oh, and you need widget->setAutoFillBackground(true)18:37
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RST38hApparently, "I live in United Kingdom"18:37
RST38hAnd not getting PR1.318:37
alteregoRST38h: cool, come visit me ::)18:37
RST38hYea, right18:37
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javispedroRST38h: You have always lived in Oceania!18:37
javispedroRST38h: and the enemy has always been Eurasia!18:38
alteregoRST38h: just download the image from tablets-dev? Or do you want OTA specifically?18:38
jacekowskii want OTA18:38
RST38hdon't want to flash if I can18:38
sivangalterego: hackish!18:38
alteregoMeh, I flashed, screwed up my background image and icons, oh and my wifi ap configs18:38
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sivangalterego: wifi config just changed name, gconf editing fixed it18:39
alteregosivang, well, it's _the_ way to do it without stylesheets :P18:39
alteregoOh, right18:39
sivangalterego: as in, the recommended way?18:39
alteregosivang: yup18:39
sivangalterego: now that I think of it, I forgot how I edited it-18:39
sivangalterego: there's a terminal binary for gconf to edit18:39
chem|stalterego: the backup program stores all that in settings...18:40
* sivang wonders why it changes names18:40
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macmaNgreets allz18:40
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alteregoAnyone got a sysroot for PR1.3 then? For madde?18:41
keriohmm, maybe i disabled SSU somehow?18:42
macmaNis there any reason to assume RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin md5sum is not correct in the MD5SUMS file?18:42
macmaNdownloaded it twice now, both checksums are different18:42
alteregomacmaN: your download is crap? :)18:42
dolpalterego: i'd like that too..18:43
keriomacmaN: third time's the charm!18:43
macmaNPR_COMBINED came through correct18:43
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macmaNi'm currently trying to solve the red cross sim icon18:43
Commander1024is there a howto / hint how to enable and setup meego 1.1 multiboot?18:43
macmaNafter today's v20 update went half way and then failed on me18:43
macmaNi'm assuming i need to flash back to fresh 1.2 now18:44
chem|stmacmaN: pr1.3 is available to flash18:44
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keriono upgrades available in HAM18:45
keriothe fuck, ham18:45
ahynes1Commander1024: I'm doing an OTA upgrade right now.  Then I'll see if I can get MeeGo to do anthing.18:45
macmaNchem|st: at ?18:45
kerioapt tells me i can upgrade 1000 packages18:45
chem|stmacmaN: yes18:45
ahynes1I've already installed MeeGo and done chroots to it, but haven't been successful with anything more.18:45
chem|stkerio: have you got tuxracer installed?18:45
ahynes1(Although I am multibooting NitDroid nicely)18:45
keriono i haven't18:45
chem|stany other gles game?18:46
keriobut i did have to remove a metapackage18:46
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kerioto upgrade libsdl1.2-mixer18:46
macmaNchem|st: what the hell, i didnt see them in the list like 2 hours ago :)18:46
chem|stmacmaN: they are there for now about 45min18:46
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_berto_macmaN: 488809ff96a0a05479d692e9f77aeb4f18:47
_berto_isn't it correct?18:47
chem|stkerio: I think the sdl1 is also conflicint18:47
keriothen fuck this shit18:47
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kerioi really need to fix this port18:47
macmaNchem|st: lol, amazing things happen while you step out to the supermarket to get ben&jerrys18:47
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_berto_I have the file in my hd and both sums match18:47
chem|stmacmaN: not only then!18:47
macmaN_berto_: did you generate that md5 from test download?18:47
MohammadAGalterego, used styleSheet after all lol18:47
_berto_macmaN: I had already downloaded that file some time ago18:48
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alteregoMohammadAG: :P18:49
macmaN_berto_: right... well yeah that checksum is correct but im getting different ones, i have no idea how bits get mangled during downloading18:49
macmaN_berto_: i'm downloading PR1.3 now anyway18:49
chem|stkerio: just uninstall some of the larger (in terms of program not size) programs18:49
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DocScrutinizer51uninstalling optifies stuff won't help18:52
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AranelHow much free space do I need to install PR1.3 ?18:55
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Aranelfyi, I got ~23 megabytes :| It's quite low.18:55
hawaii_Maybe you could try and see if it'll work?18:55
hawaii_Learning on your own is a fabulous way to learn.18:55
Aranelhawaii_: tried, It doesn't.18:55
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* hardaker crosses fingers and sips his coffee18:56
hawaii_well then free up some space.18:56
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Aranelhawaii_: I would like to know that "some space" since It's not a great way to describe quantity.18:57
hawaii_Over 42MB.18:57
lbt\o/ 1.3 :)18:57
Aranelthank you =)18:58
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* hawaii_ giggles18:58
DocScrutinizer51du -x /|sort -n18:58
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: if it is asking for pc-suite it is a package conflict, otherwise it wont show or tells that there is not enough space18:59
lbtgltron caused problems with a qtlib4-test library18:59
hawaii_It will show a package conflict if you select the second tab.19:00
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chem|stlbt: known conflicts are qtlib4-test libgles1-sgx-img and one I forgot about already19:00
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lbtchem|st: they came from the gltron game19:00
macmaNchem|st: yeah i think qtlib4-test conflict fucked me up19:00
lbtso removing that fixed it19:01
janii wonder why the test lib is in there in the first place..19:01
chem|sthawaii_: not all people reported that it shows a second tab yet19:01
chem|stlbt: or tuxracer19:01
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chem|stor some other game19:01
janijudging from the name, its the unittest lib thta comes on qt.19:01
ahynes1Well OTA *really* hosed my device...   Looks like it may be time for a flash19:01
chem|stI dont know what found me as I never looked into ham...19:02
lbtthought you may want to know :) ... maybe to put something on pmo19:02
agiapt shows lots of package to upgrade, but Application Manager does not show the update, should I go with flashing?19:02
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lbtmy OTA went very smoothly after removing that game19:02
chem|stbut I was powercycling and used nitdroid instead to find out about the problem19:02
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agi(I don't have those packages that seem to conflict)19:02
Noma_what is the quickest way to completely delete all user data from n900?19:02
lbtNoma_: tread on it19:03
sivangwill it tell you there's a conflict before you upgrade?19:03
hawaii_rm -rf19:03
chem|stagi: does apt show some about 85-90MB?19:03
chem|stor 30 something?19:03
sivangor do I need to make sure to remove it before? or is it written at the link infobot knows about?19:03
* agi check19:03
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sivangDocScrutinizer51: ^19:03
MohammadAGwas the Qt SDK updated?19:03
oshinbtw, a funny things to share, every time I contact nokia care, they always point me to to fix all the problem myself.19:04
agichem|st: 1006 upgrade, needs 83MB19:04
chem|stsivang: only in ham, apt will just hold back other packages but the initial maemo5meta will remove those held back and you are screwed19:04
chem|stagi: that sounds about right19:04
lbtNoma_: mkfs of some sort on the user partition is probably the quickest. There may be none user data on there19:04
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oshinso if i rant something here, you should also contact nokia care not to point me here.19:04
agichem|st: yep, no remove or no "not upgraded"19:05
chem|stbut the noshow in ham makes me wonder if you got enough space in / and /home/user/19:05
ccookeooh. that's new.19:05
oshin(just in the sense of humor)19:05
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ccookeJust had a popup to tell me the n900 was drawing more power than the USB cable it was plugged into can deliver, and would I please consider plugging it in to the wall :-)19:05
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macmaNwell PR1.3 md5sum matches fine... third download of VANILLA underway19:06
chem|stagi: disable testing devel and sdk if you wnat to run dist-upgrade19:06
chem|stmacmaN: you do not need to flash mmc image!19:06
chem|stmacmaN: at least not if you do not want to19:07
macmaNchem|st: i dont? hmmm19:07
agichem|st: I disabled all repos but nokias already. is it ok to upgrade via apt?19:08
dolphow do pr1.3 and madde come along? newer sysroots needed or how does it work? i like to use madde to compile my desktop widgets19:08
chem|stmacmaN: yes you dont, the mmc image is there if you fupped your emmc or want a clean device (for selling it or something)19:08
macmaNchem|st: youre right, actually doesnt say anything about vanilla :)19:08
alteregodolp: need a new sysroot I told you that earlier :P19:08
chem|stagi: will I be hunted if it doesnt and told yes?19:08
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agichem|st: nope :)19:09
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chem|stagi: let the backup program run ahead all action19:09
trumeePR 1.3 is available?19:09
agisure, thanks a lot chem|st19:09
fcrochikwas too much to ask to have the "gtk-update-icon-cache" back? or was it fixed some other way? I hate the blue square icons!!!!19:09
chem|stjust to make sure you are clean to flash if something went wrong19:09
dolpalterego: i must have missed that line :) but good to know. wondering where to get that sysroot. hopefully soon..19:09
sivangso chem|st will screw me if I use it for the upgrade?19:10
scoobertronso does pr1.3 have anything cool? the changelog was cryptic (better app support and performance update)19:10
chem|stfcrochik: all icons showed with proper icons when I installed the 120pkgs again...19:10
trumeet.m.s is so slow!19:10
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fcrochiksivang: DON'T use dist-upgrade! I screwed my device trying :(19:10
chem|stscoobertron: kexec in kernel19:10
sivangfcrochik: I never do that, I use HAM19:11
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infobotrumour has it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update, or
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chem|sttrumee: t.m.s?19:11
fcrochikchem|st: that is nice!19:11
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fcrochikchem|st: I am still waiting for the phone to finish reinstalling my applications.... but went to check for the gtk-update just in case19:12
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chem|stsivang: does it tell something in ham or does the package just not show?19:12
trumeechem|st: t.m.o19:12
chem|stfcrochik: and the best... apart of some widgets all desktop icons are back where they used to be ;)19:13
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sivangright none of the docs mention anything about conflicting packages19:13
sivangchem|st: I did not try yet19:13
chem|sttrumee: the pr slashdotted tmo...19:13
trumeechem|st: crap!19:13
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sivangchem|st: it stopped seeing I do not have enough battery19:13
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chem|stsivang: showing you mean19:14
sivanghmm sync files with ovi?19:14
sivangthat is what it says19:14
sivangon that blgo post19:14
DocScrutinizer51~dict slashdot19:14
xDaReaperxOkay i've updated to PR 1.319:14
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sivangchem|st: yes19:14
xDaReaperxnow what ?19:14
infoboti could not get info from 'alarm at /home/ibot/infobot/src/Modules/ line 42.19:14
xDaReaperxi'm restoring backup19:14
chem|stxDaReaperx: nothing...19:14
xDaReaperxwhere's the portait mode ?19:14
chem|stxDaReaperx: you flashed?19:14
MohammadAGstyleSheet worked in scratchbox, not on device :/19:15
alteregoMohammadAG: hrm,19:15
alteregoTry doing the brush approach19:15
alteregoI've almost finished setting up scratchbox so I'll be able to have a bit of a play in a bit myself ;)19:16
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xDaReaperx_stupid net keeps disconnecting19:16
janichem|st: there was slashdot entry about 1.3 ?19:16
xDaReaperx_i updated using PC SUITE19:16
macmaNmkay, successful boot of pr1.3 it seems19:17
* wmarone kicks off pr1.3 install19:17
xDaReaperx_it shows version : 20.2010.36-2.003 < it's PR 1.3 ?19:17
scoobertronjani: not that I can see19:18
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trumeeCrap, UK version isnt released yet!19:18
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scoobertrontrumee: Im in the uk and updating ota at the moment19:19
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MohammadAGalterego, and it didn't work with the palette19:19
trumeescoobertron: i dont want to do ota. i prefer to do via the flasher19:19
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trumeescoobertron: i cant seen uk version in
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scoobertrontrumee: my bad, I misunderstood.19:20
alteregotrumee: uk was first last time, so they thought they'd make us wait this time.19:20
alteregoI use global anyway19:20
trumeealterego: i guess i will use global version this time19:21
trumeealterego: is there any difference between UK and global versions?19:21
alteregoThere really is no difference19:21
alteregoI just think it effects SSU availability or something.19:21
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trumeehmm. USA version is bigger in size compared to Global version.19:22
alteregoOh and some functionality, like in some countries you're not allowed FMTX19:22
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trumeealterego: Global doesnt have these restrictions?19:23
trumeeIs there no change in emmc vanilla version, latest one is RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin?19:24
* wmarone sighs as flash kills firefox on his desktop19:24
JamesLittlerThere is no EMMC image on tablets-dev, do we use the PR1.2 vanilla or will there be a PR1.3 vanilla uploaded at some point (along with the UK varient)?19:24
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janihas there been any proper changelog for the release yet ?19:25
alteregotrumee: hasn't for me.19:25
alteregoAnd we have a working scratchbox environment :)19:25
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xDaReaperxcan't find a changelog19:26
trumeescoobertron: update doesnt give me an ota option19:27
DocScrutinizer51there's no need to flash eMMC alias VANILLA for pr1.319:27
xDaReaperxi got OTA option > but it was telling me to update using PC suite19:27
sivangxDaReaperx: package conflict?19:27
DocScrutinizer51if you want to nevertheless, then the old version is just fine19:27
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sivangxDaReaperx: qt4-testlib something?19:28
xDaReaperxno i installed it using PC Suite any ways19:28
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xDaReaperxi uninstalled all QT apps19:28
trumeeDocScrutinizer51: wont it be better to flash emmc, since settings might have changed for some programs (just a guess)19:28
xDaReaperxand QT 419:28
scoobertrontrumee: odd - I doubt it would be due to being on a different network or anything like that.19:28
xDaReaperxhey i noticed the Application manager has changed a bit19:29
sivangtrumee: not neccessary, from experience, but it could help some hconf settings getting crazy19:29
xDaReaperxwhile showing Install Applications you get a choice to install what apps you want19:29
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trumeescoobertron: i have 203 version i think19:29
trumeescoobertron: yes check the About product page, definitely 20319:29
* wmarone watches the actual update begin19:29
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trumeescoobertron: is your phone with O2/vodaphone ?19:30
scoobertrontrumee: im in the middle of updating, so I can't check.  though I think I am on the global firmware, which might make a difference19:30
scoobertrontrumee: nope, t-mobile19:30
janixDaReaperx: install multiple apps at once ?19:31
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trumeescoobertron: ah! that explains it.19:33
trumeescoobertron: global firmware19:34
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scoobertrontrumee: interesting - this might be another advantage of going global19:35
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Noobmonk3ybefore i make a stupid mistake, i have win 7 - should i download ovi suite 2.2 or pc suite 7.119:36
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Noobmonk3y(to connect and update my n900 that is)19:36
xDaReaperxnow i have to install all apps again .. =/19:37
xDaReaperxthats like 860 MB19:37
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, if you're gonna use QTextBrowser, don't update19:37
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Noobmonk3yi'm not :p19:37
Noobmonk3yis it buggered?19:37
Noobmonk3ybut that will bugger healthcheck instantly19:38
Noobmonk3y(the old one)19:38
trumeechem|st: cant see PR1.3 on slashdot.19:38
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xDaReaperxwhats slashdot ?19:39
Noobmonk3ybut MohammadAG that didnt answer my Q - installing ovi suite19:39
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xDaReaperxdon't you guys think the app manager is a bit quicker ?19:39
vltRhi.. what images do i have to flash my N900 with to have the whole factory state?19:39
Noobmonk3ydunno havent update, same speed as it was yesterday for me ;)19:39
GAN900That only took 1.5 hours on GPRS.19:39
Noobmonk3ylol :P19:40
xDaReaperxtook me half an hour19:40
xDaReaperxnow i need to install all apps again19:40
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xDaReaperxis this normal after updates ?19:40
* GAN900 didn't reflash.19:40
xDaReaperxi restored , it shows my app list19:40
GAN900If you do them incorrectly, yes.19:40
janixDaReaperx: now there's a question i wasnt expecting =)19:40
vltRhi.. what images do i have to flash my N900 with to have the whole factory state?19:41
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Noobmonk3yvltR: surely factory state means last sept/october?19:42
bef0rdis it just me or the browser feels faster? :P19:42
Noobmonk3yor do you mean the current latest firmware but latest clean buld and flash emmc?19:42
fcrochikmy first casualty of PR13: mycontacts (alternative) backend will fail to load with qt4.7 and will endup deleting all the groups. It is easy to fix by changing the configuration file but has to be done before you run mycontacts for the first time after upgrade19:42
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MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, buggered is an understatement19:43
vltRNoobmonk3y: i want to make total cleanup19:43
vltRso everything to factory state but with updates :)19:43
Noobmonk3ytotal cleanup doesnt answer my question vltR .....19:43
Noobmonk3yfactory state = original firmware, you would then be asked to update all the way back to 1.3?!19:44
DocScrutinizer51~tell vltR about flashing19:44
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vltReh but if i update firmware all my apps will be on the phone.. i dont want that19:45
GAN900Pro update.19:45
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GAN900MicroB fails to load all pages now.19:45
Arkenoiseems that themes support on 1.3 differs somehow: some colors are reverted to default19:46
ahynes1vltR - I tried an OTA update, but am now doing a reflash.19:46
ahynes1Take a look at
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ahynes1Just use the latest flash file and you should be good.19:46
wmaroneGAN900: worksforme :/19:46
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* GAN900 stabs Nokia19:47
GAN900Transitions are all jittery now, too.19:47
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chem|stjani: don't know but that's more a figurative description it was nokia'ed?!19:49
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GAN900Reboot time.19:50
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janichem|st: ack ok, so you where only talking about the effect, not the site ;)19:50
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Noobmonk3ygreat ovi suite says there is no update :P19:52
Noobmonk3yyet the phone says there is19:52
chem|stjani: yes :)19:52
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, why not just SSU?19:52
MohammadAGor not update at all :P19:52
Noobmonk3yove ther air?19:52
Noobmonk3ymeh i would need to remove crap :P19:52
MohammadAGor fix HealthCheck, as I said, :P19:52
andyph666how much space we need to be able to update?19:53
chem|stNoobmonk3y: NOS3 tells...19:53
DocScrutinizerandyph666: probably ~50MB19:53
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andyph666crap i only have 18 :o any way to see what takes up the most space?19:54
DocScrutinizerandyph666: at least that's been the magnitude of free space on root for last few SSU19:54
Noobmonk3ylol MohammadAG51 !!!19:55
MohammadAGdu -h | grep M19:55
DocScrutinizerdu -x /|sort -n19:55
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MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, black on black ftw19:55
MohammadAGo/ Venemo19:55
Venemohey MohammadAG :)19:55
andyph666thanks guys19:55
andyph666does it break android or titans kernel?19:56
Noobmonk3ycan't beleive the textbrowser issue didnt get seen and fixed!19:56
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mikki-kundoes here anybody have a sports-strap for his n900?19:56
chem|standyph666: android no titans idk19:57
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mikki-kuni was curious how well they do... i'd need one for some casual biking so i can always check which way to go19:57
chem|stvideocalling died again?19:57
scoobertronenter still doesn't work properly when running ncurses stuff in the terminal *sob*19:58
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chem|stscoobertron: there is a libvte fix attached at the bugreport19:58
agiscoobertron: I hate that one :/19:58
DocScrutinizerscoobertron: fix it!
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VenemoNoobmonk3y: the community could fix that one, right?19:58
mikki-kunscoobertron: try to remap your key to "return" as value and 'remove' that "XK_Enter" stuff which is there...19:59
GAN900Kill me19:59
chem|stVenemo: it is...19:59
GAN900Still not working19:59
mikki-kunGAN900: that is against the law so we cannot follow your order19:59
Noobmonk3yVenemo: next year maybe lol19:59
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chem|stVenemo: Noobmonk3y agi
VenemoNoobmonk3y: well we could do the fix, then release it through MohammadAG's SSU20:00
chem|stmaybe it is now another version did not check yet20:00
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Noobmonk3yno idea what the SSU is, that whole thing just confused the buggery outta me20:00
agichem|st: thanks!20:01
Noobmonk3ychem|st: ?20:01
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, community repository20:01
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, when Nokia drops support, you'll need one20:01
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG51:  kinda got it, but it just confused me20:01
chem|stagi: if you installed tell if it is still working well20:01
Noobmonk3ylol kk20:01
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, i.e, from today20:01
VenemoNoobmonk3y: MohammadAG started his own SSU(=Seamless Software Update) which provides fixes not yet released by Nokia in the open source packages20:01
agiDocScrutinizer: yep, reading thru it :)20:01
* Noobmonk3y is just uninstalling the world off his N900 so i can do the over the air20:01
VenemoNoobmonk3y: it did eliminate some serious PR 1.2 bugs back then20:01
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, no, they really don't have to announce that they dropped support20:01
MohammadAGVenemo, hildon-desktop in my repo is newer than the one in PR1.3, makes me sad20:02
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scoobertroninteresting.  apparently I don't have any repos any more.  that is going to be fun to do by mand.20:02
MohammadAGmodest too I think20:02
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chem|stscoobertron: empty repo lists shoed in 1.2 quiet often20:03
chem|stwait a bit longer with opening the list20:03
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xDaReaperxis the app manager slow in loading application list still ?20:03
scoobertronseems to be20:04
xDaReaperxand did they say there would be portait mode ?20:04
xDaReaperxportrait *20:04
DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: you bet it is, why shouldn't it?20:04
scoobertrondidn't see anything in the release notes20:04
xDaReaperxdoes everything load in portrait ?20:04
xDaReaperxnothing does for me20:05
xDaReaperxit feels same as PR 1.220:05
xDaReaperxkind of20:05
agichem|st: seems to work just fine (re: libvte4)20:05
chem|stagi: nice20:05
DocScrutinizeragi: thanks! :-)20:05
agithank you both :)20:06
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scoobertronreboot fixed the repo thing.  emergency over.20:06
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vltRwhat is FIASCO image?20:06
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* agi puts libvte4 on hold now20:07
vltRi have to flash FIASCO image before flashing emmc... ?20:07
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chem|stagi: it says incompatible application package20:08
tybolltthere a changelog yet?20:08
ZogGso i did aptget -dist-update and in the middle of updating phone turns off and can't turn on - only Nokia on white screen. though ntdroid boots fine. i smell flashing =) good i just backedup before20:08
DocScrutinizervltR: My suggestion is to do it other way round: VANILLA first, then COMBINED20:08
chem|stapt-get install --force-reinstall tybollt20:09
xDaReaperxtime to start tweeting about the PR 1.3 , so it gets into the news media blogs20:09