IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-10-25

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oshin	could these qt libs in extra-dev required for playing with qml cause trobles installing pr1.3?	00:35
DocScrutinizer	can't see why	00:36
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sivang	1.3 is released?	00:49
sivang	and no note on MLs?	00:50
sivang	DocScrutinizer: ^ hey :)	00:50
alterego	No, 1.3 isn't released yet, I'm hoping it'll be out in the next couple of weeks.	00:50
alterego	Would be nice if it coincided with the MeeGo 1.1 release.	00:50
alterego	Though there's no reason for that to actually happen ^.^	00:50
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sivang	alterego: right :)(	00:51
sivang	Reading the backlog, there has been some interesting discussion going on here	00:51
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sivang	biological weapons of mass destructions, etc	00:52
alterego	Heh	00:52
alterego	Can't say I've been paying much attention to be honest ;)	00:52
sivang	frals: have you set a mms gateway for your app? :)	00:52
sivang	frals: given Stskeeps 's remakrs.	00:52
* sivang is just being silly		00:52
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sivang	alterego: my python key value store prototype passses all tests, I'm now setting up lenny chroot for packaging	00:53
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sivang	alterego: do you remember how python stuff are packages these days in debian by any chance?	00:53
sivang	(terribly off topic)	00:53
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sivang	alterego: last I did that it had only python-central	00:54
alterego	Can't say I used anything special to generate my backages.	00:54
alterego	Just cp'd them in my debian/rules file to where they were supposed to be.	00:54
sivang	alterego: well, you sort's have to wire into python's setuptools	00:54
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* javispedro concludes that, at this point, tmo is still worth it.		00:55
alterego	javispedro: why now?	00:55
javispedro	I think SNR has slightly improved since the crazy days	00:55
sivang	alterego: hmm, so the proper way is to have this setuptools deal with it, and only call it from debian/rules	00:55
alterego	Dunno	00:55
sivang	anyway, I'm off to #debian@ oftc	00:55
alterego	Check out someone elses package, like one of the pymaemo guys.	00:55
sivang	cheer all, see you later when I'vefinished my little project.	00:55
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alterego	o/	00:56
javispedro	alterego: let's say I've got quite useful PMs, and slightly above the SNR I expected on the preenv thread.	00:56
alterego	Good for you :)	00:57
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javispedro	it has remind me of the first days of drnoksnes, and back then, while there was still complains about the decaying SNR on tmo, I would not have said it was "awful"	00:57
javispedro	you still have to avoid flamewar topics like the plague, though.	00:58
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javispedro	but the worst offenders have already gone to "greener" pastures I say.	00:58
alterego	I can't, I'm like a fly to a flourescent ^.^	00:58
alterego	Yeah, heh	00:58
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* alterego attempts to build mtf		00:59
javispedro	alterego: which target?	00:59
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alterego	just my laptop	00:59
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javispedro	x86, debian-like?	01:00
javispedro	well, tbh my knowledge is rusting a bit already :(	01:00
alterego	x86_64 ubuntu 10.04	01:00
javispedro	good luck :)	01:01
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alterego	Can't be that hard? :P	01:02
javispedro	when I first tried it it seemed unsurmountable	01:02
javispedro	I submited some patchs to make it build on x86_64..	01:02
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javispedro	oh, all ahve been merged.	01:03
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alterego	Will probably take a while though ..	01:04
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javispedro	naa, 0.01% the time needed to built qt itself.	01:04
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javispedro	*build	01:04
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pupnik	ok do you guys let women act like tv show queens?	01:05
pupnik	do you actually let women whip you around like they do on the telivision?	01:05
DocScrutinizer51	tv show queen, what a paradoxon	01:05
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pupnik	i think the television makes women think they can act like children, DocScrutinizer51	01:06
alterego	pupnik: probably	01:06
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DocScrutinizer51	~trout pupnik	01:06
* infobot slaps pupnik around a bit with a large trout!		01:06
DocScrutinizer51	~attack pupnik	01:06
pupnik	well what do you guys think about carol	01:06
spinningcompass	pupnik: Carol who?	01:07
pupnik	my girl	01:07
alterego	carol who?	01:07
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing pupnik		01:07
pupnik	carol chen	01:07
alterego	Heh	01:07
alterego	Don't know her.	01:07
alterego	Anyhow, g'night bed time for me ..	01:07
pupnik	she got all upset because i chose to fix my furnace instead of drive 320km to pick her up from the airport	01:07
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spinningcompass	pupnik: Why are you telling us this?	01:07
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pupnik	i think women who act like kids should get outed	01:08
trumee	anybody tried/using sygic?	01:08
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spinningcompass	pupnik: Why are you expressing that opinion in an IRC channel whose purpose is in contemplation and furtherance of Maemo?	01:08
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pupnik	this is a dead end channel of old farts	01:09
javispedro	=)	01:09
trumee	was wondering whether sygic lets mediaplayer play in the background?	01:09
spinningcompass	pupnik: You've mistaken this channel for your mother's bedroom. Sorry...	01:09
DocScrutinizer51	ohnoes, sheduled event: pupnik getting philosophical	01:09
pupnik	javispedro: try kotczarny's new osc program! it is fun! #liqbase	01:09
javispedro	pupnik: linkie?	01:10
trumee	also, since sygic runs fullscreen is it possible to goto home screen without invoking hardware keyboard.	01:10
pupnik	chanie	01:10
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trumee	was wondering whether mediaplayer could skip a track by pressing camera button.	01:12
trumee	will be quite useful while running sygic.	01:12
trumee	unfortunately cant find a car mount which can take my otterbox. so cant use keyboard if i run sygic maps.	01:13
trumee	not many sygic users here i guess.	01:13
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javispedro	trumee: no, I do not have sygic. Does it mute the media player really?	01:19
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trumee	javispedro, it was a question :)	01:20
javispedro	ah :P	01:20
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mavhc	gah, now my touchscreen is deadish, damn you n810	01:21
trumee	javispedro, but guess it should mute it otherwise voice navigation would be tricky.	01:21
jacekowski	well, using phone as satnav is PITA anyways	01:22
jacekowski	just use tomtom	01:22
trumee	advantage is that it is portable	01:22
jacekowski	tomtom is portable as well	01:23
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jacekowski	it's probably even lighter than n900	01:23
trumee	tomtom i agree is better as sat nav	01:23
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jacekowski	and cheaper	01:23
trumee	but i carry my N900 in my pocket but dont carry tomtom everywhere i go.	01:24
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jacekowski	well, but why you need voice navigation when you're not in a car?	01:24
trumee	jacekowski, walking?	01:24
jacekowski	car navigation for walking	01:25
jacekowski	not very efficient	01:25
trumee	jacekowski, most satnavs can suggest routes for walking	01:26
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trumee	easier to look into a phone for map than carry a tomtom in a hand	01:27
jacekowski	not sygic	01:27
trumee	less of embarrassment on the street :p	01:27
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javispedro	sygic doesn't do routes for walking?	01:28
javispedro	unbelievable. even ovi maps does.	01:29
kerio	ovi maps does stuff? since when? :O	01:29
javispedro	touché.	01:29
jacekowski	only advantage of sygic over ovi maps is voice	01:29
jacekowski	which is why i don't understand why nokia is not planning to add it	01:29
javispedro	route recalculation? not requiring stupid internet to search for pois?	01:30
javispedro	s/requiring stupid/stupidly requiring	01:30
jacekowski	that's minor problems	01:30
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javispedro	"minor"?	01:30
jacekowski	easy to fix	01:30
javispedro	like voice.	01:30
jacekowski	nokia just abandoned it apparently	01:30
DocScrutinizer51	HAH, voice guidance is sooo simple	01:31
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DocScrutinizer51	if you don't need a decent just in time guidance	01:31
javispedro	even if were über rocket science (which it isn't) they already have it in the form of symbian ovi maps!	01:31
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DocScrutinizer51	ack	01:32
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trumee	jacekowski, has it been abandoned?	01:32
trumee	there was a blog from nokia that they were working on it for maemo.	01:33
javispedro	yesssssssss	01:33
DocScrutinizer51	but when I was involved in developing GPS guidance at Siemens automotive, it wasn't exactly simple to schedule the announcements accordingly	01:33
javispedro	so sure about that.	01:33
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: i mean, they already did it for another platoforms	01:33
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jacekowski	i'm still tempted to be able to dualboot tomtom software and maemo	01:42
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jacekowski	pretty much all required stuff is already there in kernel	01:43
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DocScrutinizer51	@nice idea	01:44
DocScrutinizer51	a *	01:44
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MOUD	Hello	01:47
MOUD	I installed Cisco VPNC but i cannot find the program in my phone, where can i find it?	01:47
trumee	jacekowski, wow is that possible?	01:48
trumee	jacekowski, can tomtom binaries run on N900?	01:49
jacekowski	instruction set is compatible	01:49
jacekowski	in terms of binary compatibility	01:49
jacekowski	but tomtom is using framebuffer	01:49
jacekowski	and n900 gps is connected to rapuyama	01:50
jacekowski	so it it wouldn't be plug and play sort of style	01:50
jacekowski	but somebody ran it on other linux based pda long time ago	01:50
MOUD	is there any sql client that can be used and connect to a database via VPN?	01:51
jacekowski	depends on database	01:52
MOUD	Oracle	01:52
kerio	why is the fact that's a vpn important?	01:53
trumee	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=11681	01:53
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MOUD	I use cisco VPN to work from home	01:54
kerio	so?	01:54
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kerio	a vpn is another network interface	01:54
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MOUD	basically what i want to do is... connect to cisco vpn and then run my sql queries using a sql program	01:57
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kerio	so do that	01:58
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Macer	crap	02:03
Macer	anybody know the cyanogen # ?	02:03
pupnik	?	02:03
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Macer	want to se if i can get it installed on a cliq	02:03
pupnik	we need an app to track politicians	02:03
pupnik	anybody who sites one of those cocksuckers enters the location to an openstreetmap database	02:04
Macer	pupnik: cnn doesnt have an app?	02:04
pupnik	no	02:04
pupnik	we need an app to track every politician	02:04
pupnik	real time	02:04
Macer	like i said... cnn ;)	02:04
pupnik	let's do it	02:04
pupnik	any foss facial recognition software?	02:05
pupnik	the submissions would need verification	02:05
Macer	lol	02:05
pupnik	for e.g. politician getting out of car in front of ritz hotel	02:05
pupnik	you'd need to be able to flash those satanic lizards	02:06
pupnik	and then do a shazam-type lookup	02:06
pupnik	to match their skin mask	02:06
pupnik	we could also do a genocide game	02:06
pupnik	for maemo	02:06
pupnik	because we just loled at genocide for the past 20 years	02:07
pupnik	lol	02:07
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Macer	my gf has my n900 and i have her cliq	02:08
Macer	why do i feel like she is driving around in my corvette while i have a pinto?	02:09
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MOUD	so, how can I do that?	02:10
jacekowski	pupnik: opencv	02:10
jacekowski	pupnik: and you could hack cctv network	02:11
jacekowski	pupnik: or mobile phone network	02:11
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jacekowski	or oth	02:11
jacekowski	both	02:11
pupnik	i'm up for talks	02:12
pupnik	these pompous asses	02:12
pupnik	who pretend to have 'authority;	02:12
ieatlint	Macer: you have the pinto, but i'm not sure i'd call the n900 corvette	02:12
pupnik	are just the fucktards from grade school	02:12
pupnik	do you want to let the stupid kids rule you?	02:12
ieatlint	let's call it a delorean... it's got some cool stuff, but ultimately is an underpowered niche joke with no support	02:12
jacekowski	ieatlint: but it's a time machine	02:13
pupnik	pompous asses should be made fun of	02:13
ieatlint	jacekowski: oh yeah, it's also fucking awesome like that	02:13
pupnik	like in soviet times	02:13
pupnik	we are in the same times in the west	02:13
pupnik	the usa hires a million people to spy on the world?	02:13
pupnik	insane soviet idiocy	02:14
jacekowski	you've chosen them	02:14
pupnik	it will be self destructive	02:14
jacekowski	it's only your fault	02:14
jacekowski	and you are only to blame	02:14
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pupnik	you/me/we	02:14
jacekowski	no	02:14
ieatlint	are you on some sort of meth high?	02:14
jacekowski	i don't vote	02:14
ieatlint	hyperactive and paranoid == awesome	02:14
jacekowski	to protest against government	02:14
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pupnik	ieatlint: i'm way ahead of most idiots in the tyranny analysis situation. and i've been proven right for 17 years. and nobody disproves anything i say.	02:15
pupnik	you're a scared little momma's boy who doesn't want to observe wider flows	02:15
jacekowski	pupnik: because it's all the same thing	02:16
jacekowski	pupnik: for 17 or more years	02:16
jacekowski	just under different names	02:16
ieatlint	pupnik: i'm surrounded by people like you far too often, and despite your self-proclaimed clairvoyance of politics and life, the thing you seem most dense to perceive is that the rest of us a don't give a fuck	02:16
pupnik	hahahaha	02:16
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pupnik	ieatlint: you don't understand why people care about maemo	02:17
pupnik	and please keep showing us how you take the horse thing up your cloaca	02:17
ieatlint	people don't care about maemo :P	02:17
SpeedEvil	I do.	02:17
ieatlint	people in general don't, i mean	02:18
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pupnik	right	02:19
pupnik	what would you do if you lived in nazi germany?	02:20
pupnik	"i would stop the murders!@!!!@!#"	02:20
pupnik	well you live in nazi germany now	02:20
pupnik	millions are being killed	02:20
pupnik	and you don't even notice it	02:20
pupnik	that's how fucked in the head you all are	02:20
pupnik	all of ou	02:20
ieatlint	that's a loaded question, i don't live in nazi germany and i can't hope to guess how i would handle such circumstances	02:20
pupnik	you watched 2 million people be killed	02:21
pupnik	and said nothing	02:21
ieatlint	i somehow don't recall that	02:21
pupnik	right	02:21
pupnik	that's this insanity thing	02:22
ieatlint	probably because you're talking out of your ass	02:22
pupnik	no because reality is that bent	02:22
asj	ieatlint: ignore pupnik, he gets drunk and goes off like this once a month or se	02:22
pupnik	we just had a genocide	02:22
pupnik	and we all talked about video games	02:22
ieatlint	asj: fair enough	02:22
DocScrutinizer51	pupnik: stop ihsulting people	02:22
pupnik	we just had a genocide	02:22
pupnik	and we all talked about video games	02:22
pupnik	and the murderers are plotting a new genocide	02:23
pupnik	lol	02:23
pupnik	time to work on open-source anti-missile projects	02:24
pupnik	and networked airspace observatoin	02:24
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pupnik	anything to prevent these motherfuckers from terminator mode	02:24
GAN900	Wrong number from ANOTHER credit collection angency.	02:24
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pupnik	stfu GAN900	02:24
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* GAN900 will murder Linda Klempz.		02:24
pupnik	topic is serious	02:24
GAN900	pupnik, nou.	02:25
pupnik	you goin jew on us?	02:25
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DocScrutinizer51	pupnik: I warned you not to offend or insult people!	02:25
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pupnik	ok	02:25
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javispedro	hmpf.	02:26
ieatlint	well, now that that's over, i can go back to my genocide	02:26
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javispedro	mid-life crisis, they say. I'm too young to understand it either way.	02:28
javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: you can hide the banhammer now :)	02:28
DocScrutinizer51	not sure about it	02:28
DocScrutinizer51	and it's tedious on N900	02:28
DocScrutinizer51	to switch	02:28
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mavhc	my n810 is dying, what should I replace it with?, around same price, no contract	02:38
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SpeedEvil	Dyning how?	02:39
SpeedEvil	wlso - where ar eyou?	02:39
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mavhc	touchscreen is going, battery charging is messed up	02:40
oshin	don't want to consider an N900?	02:41
SpeedEvil	Are you sure it's not just needing a nrew battery?	02:41
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mavhc	too expensive	02:41
SpeedEvil	Also - I think you can get touch panels	02:41
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mavhc	apparently I could replace the connector cable, but that's tricky, and they're not cheap	02:42
oshin	will china make multitouch resistive screen for n900?	02:44
SpeedEvil	no	02:44
SpeedEvil	A clone display/screen is easy	02:45
SpeedEvil	A panel adding new functionality is hard, as it would require actual work.	02:45
SpeedEvil	and drivers	02:45
oshin	:(	02:46
oshin	i won't want a capacitive screen.	02:46
oshin	i am a painter.	02:46
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ShadowJK	and a new touchscreen controller	02:52
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jpinx-eeepc	oshin: I can buy clone n900's here so I'm sure you can et screens	03:04
jpinx-eeepc	mavhc: what's "too expensive" - I got my 6 month old 2nd-hand N900 for just under US$300	03:07
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mavhc	that'd be ok	03:07
jpinx-eeepc	mavhc: depends what ccountry you're in - look on locally based internet auctions, etc	03:09
mavhc	I'll check ebay	03:10
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javispedro	hmpf.	03:18
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javispedro	on a desktop file, "Version" is supposed to mean Desktop file spec version	03:18
javispedro	nearly everyone is misusing it (including me)	03:18
javispedro	(and some Nokians, of course)	03:19
javispedro	it should be 1.0, not your apps version.	03:19
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Termana	good morning	03:33
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: (vesion) I remarked that a few days ago here	03:36
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internetishard	hey, why does evopedia load wiki pages at about the same speed as over the web	04:01
internetishard	I've a whole 13gb database on a microsd	04:01
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internetishard	also, how do you choose which app opens which type of file in file manager?	04:05
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cehteh	evopedia runs a local webserver and has to uncompress every page, quite some overhead for such a little device i guess (and possibly unoptimized programming practices too)	04:12
cehteh	hey why dont just put the offline wikipedia on a squashfs and done	04:12
internetishard	does evopedia support that?	04:13
internetishard	Yeah, the whole reason I did this was for instant access - I usually have internet acces	04:13
cehteh	no idea, but the community kernel dies and any browser which can access file:// will do	04:13
cehteh	does	04:13
internetishard	how do I get hildon-thumbnail and all those to not index shit on mmc1?	04:13
SpeedEvil	~/config/tracker IIRC	04:15
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SpeedEvil	/tracker/tracker.cfg	04:15
SpeedEvil	# List of directory roots NOT to index and NOT to watch (separator=;)	04:16
SpeedEvil	NoWatchDirectory=$HOME/MyDocs/core-dumps/;$HOME/MyDocs/cities/;$HOME/MyDocs/.sou	04:16
internetishard	where is /tracker?	04:17
SpeedEvil	/home/user/.config/tracker/...	04:19
DocScrutinizer	whereis, err find /home -name 'tracker'	04:19
DocScrutinizer	or http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	04:20
internetishard	thanks, I just did /media/mmc1/ - all of it	04:23
internetishard	DocScrutinizer, how would you recommend I speed up evopedia?	04:23
internetishard	I've the latest wiki dump of 12gb from the evopedia site	04:23
DocScrutinizer	sorry, no idea	04:23
DocScrutinizer	checkout wikireader source, somewhere in ... err forgot.	04:24
DocScrutinizer	Openmoko wikireader	04:24
DocScrutinizer	might have some solutions	04:24
internetishard	well is fennec normally slow?	04:25
internetishard	I mean, opera usually seems a lot faster.. there seems to be some unnecessary waiting before a page loads	04:26
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cehteh	lets try this squashfs idea :)	04:27
* cehteh thinks evopedia is dead slow too		04:27
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cehteh	eta 12m 36s ...	04:28
cehteh	mhm :)	04:28
cehteh	the wikipedia server is a bit slow :P	04:29
internetishard	Sorry, I don't completely follow	04:29
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internetishard	It looks like evopedia has squashfs support	04:29
cehteh	really?	04:29
internetishard	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39871 I'm trying to decipher from this	04:30
internetishard	cehteh, which wiki dump did you get? It seems like they used to be in different formats, but mine is just a bunch of .dat files adding up to 13gb	04:31
cehteh	ack here too	04:32
cehteh	i just followed the evopedia instructions	04:32
internetishard	same	04:32
internetishard	I feel newb	04:32
cehteh	but i am now getting a 7z dump from wikipedia.de and convert that to squashfs	04:32
internetishard	I mean, I think the hardware should be able to handle it since I open some pretty big (20mb+) pdfs seemingly instantly	04:32
cehteh	the 7z is 3.2GB ... doing that on the server for a try	04:32
cehteh	i can make the squashfs available when this experiment works	04:33
cehteh	(no need for evopedia then :P)	04:33
internetishard	what compression is the format we're using?	04:33
cehteh	i dont know what evopedia uses	04:33
internetishard	evopedia has some cool shit though, it indexes stuff in a way that makes searching quick... it just cant open the pages quick (how do we know this isn't fennec's fault?)	04:34
cehteh	neither exactly what squashfs uses, but in my experiments it turned out compressing quite well	04:34
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cehteh	well, will take 15 minutes .. downloading 3.2gb is a bit slow :P	04:38
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internetishard	k, what do you think about fennec causing the slowness?	04:43
cehteh	guess thats reasonable :P	04:46
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cehteh	tried microb instead? well here microb with evopedia isnt really fast either	04:46
cehteh	ok i have the dump, unpacking, repacking to a squashfs .. will take a bit too :P	04:48
trip0	has anyone built anything against qt4-experiemental?	04:54
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trip0	this qt 4.7 "experimental" stuff is kinda unnecessary. name it the same as the 4.6.x packages and let them get updated	05:12
cehteh	bah 7z is slow :P	05:15
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javispedro	hm.	05:54
javispedro	from reading the accelerometer driver, it already uses interrupts for something	05:54
DocScrutinizer51	;yes	05:54
raster	DocScrutinizer51: DOC!!!	05:54
DocScrutinizer51	didn't I say that?	05:54
javispedro	:P	05:54
DocScrutinizer51	raster o/	05:55
raster	howgoes?	05:55
DocScrutinizer51	javispedro: what it doesn't use is the highpass filter	05:55
DocScrutinizer51	raster: too much trouble with real life	05:55
raster	nooooooooo	05:58
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raster	not real life	05:58
* raster kicks real life in the nuts		05:58
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internetishard	any success cehteh?	06:35
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cehteh	doing other things, no time	06:36
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kerio	where's MNZ :(	09:18
kerio	my pulseaudio sucks, i have to let out my anger at someone	09:19
Termana	Why MNZ?	09:19
Termana	There is plenty of others that can be forsaken.	09:20
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PontusOhman	If I can't find the wireless-tools and python-location in the extras-devel... Where to get them?	09:43
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tekojo	anyone have a scratchbox install running?	10:03
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tekojo	could someone run an apt-get update?	10:05
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rmrfchik	tekojo: apt-get update works fine	11:17
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tekojo	rmrfchik: thanks	11:22
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zogg__	hey	11:28
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RST38h	Ah, PR1.3.	11:44
frals	omg what where?!	11:45
djszapi	does one have idea why 'ar' binary is not linked dynamically agaisnt libbfd on armv7 ?	11:45
Corsac	hmhm, will have to wait this evening :)	11:45
djszapi	* against	11:46
zogg__	RST38h not out yet	11:46
zogg__	!pr1.3	11:47
zogg__	~pr1,3	11:47
zogg__	~pr1.3	11:47
infobot	STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever	11:47
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mece	ZogG: http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/n900	11:47
mece	"Latest software release for Nokia N900 is 20.2010.36-2"	11:48
ZogG	mece - so?	11:48
ZogG	mece it's test release	11:48
ZogG	and the most trustfull info is dev-nokia	11:48
mece	why would they mention a test release on the official support page?	11:48
mece	that makes no sense	11:48
ZogG	mece likethose thing never happened	11:48
ZogG	why would they mention the release of the 32 week when it's 42 week now?	11:49
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ZogG	is maemo libfkash only in /usr/lib/browser/plugins?	11:49
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timeless_mbp	ZogG: what's libfkash?	11:51
ZogG	libflash*	11:51
ZogG	timeless_mbp just replaced libflash.so with the one from android	11:52
ZogG	nt working =)	11:52
mece	ZogG, well it says 36 there, and they would not release this weeks build this week, since that would not have been tested yet. And uk users got pr1.2 over ssu before it appeared on tablets-dev. So both points are null and void. Doesn't mean pr1.3 is out though.	11:52
timeless_mbp	"nt"?	11:52
timeless_mbp	mece: fwiw, releases do end up having rather old numbers	11:52
ZogG	mece let's pray for best, maybe they are pissed of leaked release?	11:52
johnx	tablets-dev has historically gotten releases later, quite a bit of the time	11:52
mece	timeless_mbp, that's what I meant.	11:53
ZogG	cause if it's the same as the leaked one - it's not that cool =(	11:53
timeless_mbp	36-2 is the right release though	11:53
timeless_mbp	so it should be pr1.3	11:53
X-Fade	There are always 3 places where updates are released.	11:53
timeless_mbp	it's what i've been running for a while	11:53
ZogG	X-Fade on my phone, yours and nokia lab?	11:53
mece	timeless_mbp, thanks	11:53
timeless_mbp	heh	11:53
X-Fade	For windows flasher on nokia.com, for linux on tablets-dev and SSU.	11:53
ZogG	but than it means leaked one was final pr1.3?	11:54
mece	eyup	11:54
ZogG	that is not sweet =(	11:54
timeless_mbp	ZogG: if you call leaking it to nokia.com a leak	11:54
ZogG	1)there were more bugfixes after	11:54
* timeless_mbp finds that to be an amusing way to leak something		11:54
mece	timeless_mbp: well it's been out on teh intertubes for a couple of weeks	11:54
timeless_mbp	ZogG: you'd rather people wait another two months?	11:54
ZogG	timeless_mbp, maybe Nokia got it from forum with leaked one and released it?	11:55
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ZogG	timeless_mbp i would wait for better release	11:55
timeless_mbp	...	11:55
timeless_mbp	you're nuts	11:55
ZogG	didn't waited so much before someone mentioned it would be released	11:55
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ZogG	timeless_mbp, it might be last release, so i rather wait	11:55
* timeless_mbp can't follow the logic		11:55
* mece neither		11:56
timeless_mbp	if 36-2 is the last release, why wait?	11:56
timeless_mbp	anyway, i've been happy w/ 36-2 for a while now	11:56
asj__	wow 36-2 eh? woudda thought it wouldn't take that long to get through qa	11:56
timeless_mbp	it isn't perfect certainly, and there are bugs i'd like to see fixed	11:56
ZogG	timeless_mbp because i would like to have last release with as much improves as i can	11:56
ZogG	so i would wait for 77-2 =)	11:56
johnx	asj__, anyone who follows Nokia's previous releaes :)	11:56
timeless_mbp	you do realize that 53 is the max number, right?	11:57
timeless_mbp	it's a week number	11:57
mece	LOL	11:57
timeless_mbp	ranging from 00, 0 .. 53	11:57
timeless_mbp	don't ask how 0 and 00 differ	11:57
ZogG	<timeless_mbp> anyway, i've been happy w/ 36-2 for a while now // there would be no later, that's my point	11:57
ZogG	timeless_mbp didn't know that anyway want 77	11:57
mece	johnx, well pr1.2 was week 19 and released week 22	11:57
mece	iirc	11:57
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ZogG	i have a question	11:58
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ZogG	in setting menu in about thing, i got n900 version - unknown	11:58
ZogG	why would it be ? =)	11:58
asj__	mece: well except it was probably supposed to be wk12 ;)	11:58
timeless_mbp	ZogG: there are some files it uses to calculate that	11:58
timeless_mbp	if they're unhappy, it'll say that	11:58
johnx	7 weeks is probably the upper end of the spectrum. might be a sign that they want it to be right so they don't have to go back ...	11:58
* timeless_mbp can't remember if one of them is the pr metapackage		11:58
VladNistor-of	ZogG, you're overclocking :)	11:59
mece	johnx, yep	11:59
timeless_mbp	johnx: 42-36 = 6, not 7, right?	11:59
jacekowski	42	11:59
ZogG	VladNistor-of nope - i don't =)	11:59
johnx	timeless, isn't it week 43?	11:59
timeless_mbp	oh brother	11:59
timeless_mbp	johnx: i wouldn't know	12:00
mece	hahah	12:00
* timeless_mbp doesn't use week numbers		12:00
VladNistor-of	ZogG, you have a custom kernel then probably	12:00
johnx	date '+%W'	12:00
ZogG	it's the last release for us	12:00
timeless_mbp	do i look like a Finn?	12:00
ZogG	makes me sad	12:00
Corsac	timeless_mbp: you're an ical user?	12:00
ZogG	VladNistor-of don't think so	12:00
timeless_mbp	Corsac: i'm mostly a gCal user i suppose	12:00
timeless_mbp	and the maemo calendar	12:00
VladNistor-of	the custom kernel is the only reason for missing version number in about I know of	12:00
ZogG	damn why i can't update cause of libsdl-gfx1.2-4	12:01
RST38h	ZogG: So let me clarify, the official pr1.3 is the same as the leaked pr1.3? :)	12:01
RST38h	moo johnx	12:01
mece	quite.	12:01
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johnx	m00f RST38h	12:01
ZogG	RST38h are you asking me? as the dates says - it s =(	12:02
crashanddie	timeless_mbp, you're a Maquis -- US guerilla infiltrated inside the European persona.	12:02
mece	I guess I need to reinstall my original hildon-desktop to be able to upgrade normally.	12:02
RST38h	ZogG: I see.	12:02
* VladNistor-of doubts the leaked version is the same as pr1.3 will be		12:02
mece	ZogG, RST38h is telling you. VladNistor-of, doubting doesn't make it less so.	12:03
timeless_mbp	VladNistor-of: leaks don't exist	12:03
timeless_mbp	but the thing on the nokia page which claims that 36-2 is real shouldn't be lying	12:03
mece	I'm gonna take a leak right now.	12:03
mece	brb.	12:03
VladNistor-of	mece, if it were ready, they would have no reason to keep it back.	12:03
timeless_mbp	now that there's a real thing out there, you're free to use it	12:03
mece	VladNistor-of, it was in QA.	12:04
timeless_mbp	VladNistor-of: eh?	12:04
timeless_mbp	images are made	12:04
timeless_mbp	then they're tested	12:04
timeless_mbp	then after basic testing, they go to other testing	12:04
timeless_mbp	then they go to wider testing	12:04
timeless_mbp	then they go to management to get release approval	12:04
timeless_mbp	then they go to you	12:04
mece	VladNistor-of, what timeless_mbp said.	12:04
RST38h	then everyone switches to Android.	12:04
Corsac	then you find bugs	12:04
sp3000	I thought there was a maze there somewhere	12:04
VladNistor-of	i dunno how Nokia does it, but I believe packages are tested, not images	12:05
Corsac	then you're eaten by a grue	12:05
RST38h	Actually, it probably happens somewhere between step #2 and step #3	12:05
timeless_mbp	VladNistor-of: we test images	12:05
timeless_mbp	not packages	12:05
timeless_mbp	RST38h: i think closer to step #1	12:05
timeless_mbp	but whatever floats your boat	12:05
VladNistor-of	my bad then	12:05
timeless_mbp	sp3000: the maze is somewhere between steps 4 and 5	12:05
timeless_mbp	VladNistor-of: that's "we" being the entire group	12:06
timeless_mbp	individual teams which make individual packages might test individual packages	12:06
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timeless_mbp	but even that is relatively unlikely	12:06
Khertan	Hello all !	12:06
timeless_mbp	the browser team doesn't ship one package, we might ship ~10	12:06
timeless_mbp	so we'd test our packages as a set	12:06
timeless_mbp	i'm actually not sure i know of any teams which ship only one package	12:06
VladNistor-of	But if you test an image and see problems you'll make a new one with fixes, so that's why i said that if pr1.3 would be different from the particular image "leaked"	12:07
timeless_mbp	perhaps the kernel team? but even they need to test against an image to ensure they haven't broken too many other packages	12:07
timeless_mbp	hrm	12:07
timeless_mbp	no	12:07
timeless_mbp	if we see problems, we file bugs	12:07
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timeless_mbp	whether or not we make fixes is a management decision	12:07
mece	I guess it depends on if the bug is a blocker	12:08
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timeless_mbp	heck, we might make fixes to our local packages, but those changes can be excluded if management doesn't want them	12:08
ZogG	lol argued with guy about harm of symlink use flag for kernel in gentoo, after long arguing i just got answer that he updates kernel more often than system =)	12:08
Khertan	timeless_mbp, ah ... the management ....	12:08
johnx	aaand, talk.maemo.org is down	12:09
johnx	fun times	12:09
Khertan	;)	12:09
timeless_mbp	Khertan: you're noticing a pattern?	12:09
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VladNistor-of	is 1.3 out now or why are we talking about it again? :))	12:10
mece	anyway the "leaked" is 20.2010.36-2, as is pr1.3. It's leaked because it was in the hands of end users before it was done testing. It has nothing to do with the results of the testing	12:10
johnx	VladNistor-of, I'd point you to an interesting talk.m.o thread, but t.m.o is down ...	12:10
timeless_mbp	VladNistor-of: according to europe.nokia.com, it's out	12:10
Khertan	timeless_mbp, hum .... i'm currently working on implementing a unspecified feature before fixing critical bugs in on of our software because our management team say that fixing bug doesn't bring money	12:10
hahlo	leaks remains me wikileaks, does techno companies employees also leak there or is it only politics :)	12:10
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Khertan	so yes ... it s about the same pattern everywhere :)	12:11
timeless_mbp	Khertan: business as usual?	12:11
RobbieThe1st	Yea. sigh	12:11
Khertan	timeless_mbp, exactly :)	12:11
mece	VladNistor-of, apparently you can install it with the software updater from windows. Or so says nokia support here: http://europe.nokia.com/support/download-software/device-software-update?n900=	12:11
johnx	Khertan, pattern? like a design pattern?	12:11
*** florian_kc is now known as florian		12:11
VladNistor-of	thanks, johnx, timeless mbp	12:11
timeless_mbp	mece: someone should try using that in Wine	12:11
* timeless_mbp wants to know if it works		12:11
mece	boyer-moore pattern matching	12:11
johnx	design pattern #134: sneak bug fixes into feature releases to get them past management	12:12
Khertan	johnx :)	12:12
RST38h	ZogG: Just confirms that Gentoo is for serial kernel compilers	12:14
alterego	Heh	12:14
johnx	RST38h, I think we should just classify it as a mental health disorder: Constant Kernel re-Compile Syndrome (CKCS)	12:15
timeless_mbp	RST38h: but i want to meet parallel kernel compilers!	12:15
crashanddie	is "serial kernel compilers" like "serial killer" but in the geek world?	12:15
crashanddie	"Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you."	12:15
johnx	crashanddie, yes. a lot of us read slashdot :)	12:16
ZogG	everyone is checkin' for pr1.3 as the whole tmo is lagging?	12:16
VladNistor-of	no over-the-air update yet it seems.	12:16
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johnx	VladNistor-of, some people got it, apparently	12:16
crashanddie	johnx, well, as being a +5 funny, I'm pretty sure a google of that sentence points to /. anyway :)	12:16
crashanddie	johnx, "But that AC was me!"	12:16
VladNistor-of	i just updated the package list with fapman	12:17
jacekowski	fap fap fap	12:17
johnx	VladNistor-of, keep in mind that Nokia's repository servers use geo-DNS	12:17
johnx	... to route you to an akamai cache near you	12:17
johnx	some will take longer to update than others	12:18
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X-Fade	Shouldn't be more than an hour though.	12:18
crashanddie	so 1.3 is actually released?	12:18
crashanddie	worth putting in the topic?	12:18
crashanddie	changelog about somewhere?	12:18
X-Fade	There is no SSU nor linux flashable one out yet.	12:18
ZogG	RST38h just confirms that idiots are out there =)	12:18
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VladNistor-of	yeah, it shoulnd't take to long. I'm in Romania btw, so no joy here	12:19
ZogG	VladNistor-of i'm in israel no joy here as well	12:19
crashanddie	ZogG, "either"	12:19
johnx	"shouldn't" and "won't" aren't the same thing :)	12:19
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johnx	same as "theory" and "practice"	12:19
* VladNistor-of agrees		12:20
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		12:20
ZogG	it bugs me that there is not jerusalem or any israel city timezone when you config n900 for the first time in the time zone lists	12:20
timeless_mbp	ZogG: bah	12:20
*** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| PR1.3 being released slowly but surely. Be patient."		12:20
*** crashanddie sets mode: -o crashanddie		12:20
timeless_mbp	it bugs me that i can't pick HEL as my timezone and keep my language/region as NAM	12:20
ZogG	you have to go to map thing to set it =(	12:20
kerio	HEL?	12:20
kerio	wtf	12:20
alterego	slowely but surely?	12:21
kerio	and what's NAM?	12:21
timeless_mbp	HELsinking NorthAMerica	12:21
timeless_mbp	s/g/i/	12:21
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: HELsinkini NorthAMerica	12:21
crashanddie	"Hell sinking"?	12:21
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: freudian slip?	12:21
Khertan	Nuclear Ammunition Machine	12:21
crashanddie	timeless_mbp, or maybe you're watching fat chick porn? "Hell's Bikini?"	12:22
timeless_mbp	i presume i don't want to know?	12:22
ZogG	crashanddie \o/	12:22
Khertan	:)	12:22
Khertan	hi crashanddie :)	12:22
crashanddie	Hey Khertan	12:22
Corsac	it might be a bit cold to be in bikini in helsinki though	12:22
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ZogG	so if it's out there where is it	12:22
alterego	Is tmo okay?	12:22
ZogG	damn =)	12:22
Corsac	(and in slip too)	12:22
alterego	Can't seem to access it	12:22
johnx	alterego, down for me as well (also down for downforeveryoneorjustme.com)	12:23
Khertan	timeless_mbp, i ve a question for you ... i ve try qtwebkit on n900 it seems faster than microb ... what is the main diff between the both engine ?	12:23
timeless_mbp	Khertan: age?	12:24
alterego	johnx: thanks :)	12:24
Khertan	timeless_mbp, age ?	12:24
timeless_mbp	or probably about 24 months to be more precise	12:24
alterego	Always good to know it's not just me	12:24
ZogG	is it me or TMO is down?	12:24
timeless_mbp	Khertan: did you branch qtwebkit based on when microb branched from mozilla-central?	12:24
Khertan	timeless_mbp, it s not a reason firefox on n900 is worst :)	12:24
timeless_mbp	or did you take one from roughly today?	12:24
sp3000	hell sin keep?	12:24
Khertan	timeless_mbp, yep on my n800 webkit was faster ... but with a poor render :)	12:25
Myrtti	DocScrutinizer51: wtf? [20:05] < DocScrutinizer> Myrtti: now what alarm is due for that?	12:25
sp3000	Khertan: like links! :D	12:25
timeless_mbp	Khertan: anyway, ask a stupid question, get the answer you get	12:25
timeless_mbp	take it or leave it	12:25
kerio	dillo ftfw	12:25
Khertan	timeless_mbp, but i think my question wasn't well explain :)	12:26
kerio	i should tell lcuk to port dillo to liqbase	12:26
timeless_mbp	i think that qualifies as stupid, yes	12:26
kerio	lcuk: port dillo to liqbase	12:26
Khertan	timeless_mbp, the question was more about the main tech diff between gecko and webkit	12:26
Khertan	timeless_mbp, you can qualify it as stupid, it s your right :)	12:26
timeless_mbp	Khertan: http://http://arewefastyet.com/	12:26
timeless_mbp	http://arewefastyet.com/	12:27
* timeless_mbp kicks chrome for being stupid		12:27
Khertan	:)	12:27
kerio	stupid but fast!	12:27
Khertan	but stupid	12:27
kerio	but fast!	12:27
timeless_mbp	kerio: running into a wall fast doesn't help me	12:27
kerio	if you're fast enough, you break the wall	12:27
crashanddie	GAN900, http://twitpic.com/2zw0s8	12:27
johnx	Khertan, totally different codebase, with very different goals (originally), started at different times, by different people, in different environments	12:27
alterego	tmo back up now	12:28
timeless_mbp	johnx: fwiw, webkit was actually forked from khtml by mozilla engineers	12:28
timeless_mbp	(well netscape engineers who had been working on gecko and were hired by apple to make webkit)	12:28
sp3000	it's all a grand conspiracy really	12:28
timeless_mbp	anyway, microb makes certain additional tradeoffs	12:28
johnx	timeless_mbp, I was thinking KHTML vs Netscape though :)	12:28
timeless_mbp	johnx: i suspected you might have been	12:29
ZogG	good news	12:29
alterego	Why isn't 1.3 on tablets-dev if it's been released?	12:29
timeless_mbp	alterego: that's a bannable question	12:29
johnx	alterego, sometimes tablets-dev is behind the nokia.com and even the SSU release	12:29
timeless_mbp	there are a bunch of different places where releases have to go	12:29
alterego	Urgh	12:30
alterego	No manual download then?	12:30
johnx	not yet	12:30
timeless_mbp	you can wait a few hours	12:30
timeless_mbp	it should be there by Wednesday :)	12:30
alterego	Yeah, I know :)	12:30
alterego	Hahah	12:30
timeless_mbp	you've been waiting 2 months	12:30
timeless_mbp	what's another 2 days?	12:30
johnx	or install a windows VM, and use the Nokia updater	12:30
* timeless_mbp shakes head		12:30
alterego	Waiting? Meh :P	12:30
* johnx flips back to vmware player		12:30
timeless_mbp	… end users… no sense of scale	12:30
alterego	I'm just bored and want something to do :P	12:30
timeless_mbp	/perspective	12:30
timeless_mbp	alterego: try Wine	12:31
timeless_mbp	lemme know if it works	12:31
alterego	Heh, wine on n900.	12:31
timeless_mbp	note that you only need to convince the updater to download the image	12:31
ZogG	DeaDBeeF hitted maemo	12:31
timeless_mbp	not flash it	12:31
ZogG	RST38h, ^	12:31
ZogG	http://imglink.ru/pictures/23-10-10/319c31cfa9dcda9783956c5998502795.jpg	12:31
thp	Khertan: i can't login to identi.ca using Khweeteur 0.0.37 - are you aware of this issue?	12:31
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sivang	good morning eerybody	12:32
* sivang wonders if Harmattan apps development can happen on the 1.3 SDK upgrade		12:32
Khertan	thp, yep	12:32
Khertan	this ... grrr identi.ca oauth is full of bugs	12:32
ZogG	http://23.fi/deadbeef-n900/	12:32
sivang	hey timeless_mbp	12:32
sivang	timeless_mbp: 'sup?	12:32
alterego	sivang: should do, though you may need the harmattan ui framework	12:32
timeless_mbp	poking hg	12:32
Khertan	thp, there is some problem with datetime when loggin	12:33
RST38h	ZogG: Not until they maemoize it.	12:33
Khertan	thp, sometime you have less than 5s to enter the token and validate ti	12:33
Khertan	it	12:33
thp	Khertan: ugh.. that does not really work right now with having to select it, etc..	12:33
ZogG	RST38h what you mean maemoize it?	12:33
sivang	alterego:I guess it will be released soon into sb	12:33
thp	maybe you are using the machine-readable oauth api and that one has this time limit?	12:33
ZogG	RST38h it's port optified as i understand	12:34
RST38h	ZogG: That menu bar basically saus "I know how to compile stuff under Linux but I cannot code"	12:34
thp	Khertan: also, maybe you can use QtWebKit inside your app to auto-grab the token once its displayed?	12:34
sivang	timeless_mbp: ah, on what code?	12:34
sivang	hey thp :)	12:34
Khertan	thp, yep this is why i m playing currently with qtwebkit :)	12:34
ZogG	RST38h, http://23.fi/kuvat/deadbeef-n900.png	12:34
thp	sivang: hey	12:34
crashanddie	ZogG, how weird, that screenshots shows one fucked-up font. Did you break your device?	12:34
ZogG	RST38h, it even has portrait mode - what are you talikng =)	12:34
Khertan	Harmattan <<< it s not a dead project ?	12:34
timeless_mbp	sivang: hg-crew	12:34
ZogG	crashanddie it's not mine =)	12:35
petteri	RST38h: i can code :D	12:35
crashanddie	petteri, no, you can't.	12:35
petteri	:/	12:35
petteri	patches are wellcome	12:35
crashanddie	wellcum?	12:36
VladNistor-of	forum is back	12:36
sivang	crashanddie: booo	12:36
ZogG	petteri is it your code?	12:36
crashanddie	counter-boo	12:36
ZogG	petteri is it your port*	12:36
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TermanaDesire	Anyone that knows about disassembly of the n900 around?	12:37
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TermanaDesire	So everyone disappears...	12:37
TermanaDesire	:p	12:37
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petteri	ZogG: I just compiled it in scratchbox	12:38
kerio	TermanaDesire: i know for a fact DocScrutinizer broke his n900 while disassembling it	12:38
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kerio	and he's an EE	12:38
petteri	, but will update it later when I have time	12:38
kerio	so that should either question his ability as a EE, or the feasibility of disassembling the N900	12:38
petteri	crashanddie: please send patches if you have problems with the port	12:38
kerio	or both, i guess	12:38
kerio	DocScrutinizer: ;)	12:39
crashanddie	petteri, I don't use your app :)	12:39
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TermanaDesire	kerio: mine won't turn on already so I'm not so worried about breaking it	12:39
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kerio	i recommend nokia care	12:39
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TermanaDesire	I just want to open it and stab the board	12:40
petteri	crashanddie: ok	12:40
thp	Khertan: great, khweeteur is one of the most promising twitter apps on the n900, so i'd love to use it with identi.ca as well	12:40
kerio	do that from the outside	12:40
kerio	way more satisfying	12:40
thp	(only problem is I might be bugging you with feature requests like merging identi.ca and twitter.com posts that are the same once it starts working :p)	12:40
TermanaDesire	kerio: nokia care will do nothing it's been in water	12:40
kerio	of course it will	12:40
kerio	if you give them money	12:40
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kerio	less money than you'd need to buy another one	12:40
sivang	how do phones get into water?	12:41
sivang	mystery	12:41
crashanddie	by dropping them over the loo	12:41
Khertan	thp, :) it s a good idea :)	12:41
sivang	crashanddie: that happend to me once with a stupid samsung of my terrible ex,	12:41
crashanddie	cause or effect?	12:42
TermanaDesire	Not by the loo for me	12:42
ZogG	petteri so announce it on forums and push it to repos?	12:42
sivang	crashanddie: heh	12:42
Khertan	thp, the main problem i have with the identi.ca bugs ... is that i cannot reproduce it with my account	12:42
TermanaDesire	My little brother dunked it while I slept	12:42
sivang	crashanddie: since then I'm prefer to die than to go over the toilet with my N900	12:42
crashanddie	I guess that's one good thing for the iPad	12:42
crashanddie	it doesn't fit in the bowl	12:42
TermanaDesire	Reminder : don't keep phones in your pocket with little kids	12:42
timeless_mbp	petteri: get rid of the menubar	12:43
Khertan	crashanddie, mouarf !	12:43
petteri	ZogG: I will do it later when it is ready	12:43
petteri	more ready :)	12:43
crashanddie	Khertan, I helped out a friend on his shitty django website	12:43
crashanddie	I asked for an iPad as payment	12:43
timeless_mbp	petteri:	12:43
timeless_mbp	1. get rid of the menubar	12:43
timeless_mbp	2. switch to outlook style 2 lines per message = 2 lines per track	12:43
Khertan	crashanddie, and now ... what you will do with it ?	12:44
timeless_mbp	3. don't chop off duration like that	12:44
TermanaDesire	DocScrutinizer: ping	12:44
crashanddie	Khertan, dunno, as I said when it was announced, keep it in the living room for couch-surfing while watching the news or sitting next to gf while watching movie?	12:44
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petteri	timeless_mbp: it requires quite a lot of work. It is mostly straight recompile in scratchbox. The GUI is the same as it is the desktop version. I have not done anythin else than added rotation support	12:44
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timeless_mbp	4. don't use a tiny volume triangle. show volume as a percentage or something and when tapped then show a 400+px wide widget	12:44
timeless_mbp	5. don't use a button border to indicate active state	12:45
timeless_mbp	(play)	12:45
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timeless_mbp	anyway, that's enough of a basic list :)	12:45
Khertan	crashanddie, and you think that you will have hand free while watching movie with gf ?	12:45
Khertan	:)	12:45
crashanddie	Khertan, yeah, she's not too sticky	12:46
petteri	timeless_mbp: thanks for the tips	12:46
timeless_mbp	fwiw, i'd probably do Album, Track, Duration on one line. and Playing, Title on the next	12:46
Khertan	crashanddie, lol	12:46
timeless_mbp	actually, probably put the title line above the artist line	12:46
timeless_mbp	petteri: also, does it make sense to show the artist in the title area?	12:47
timeless_mbp	i'd imagine the title is more useful	12:47
timeless_mbp	6. ^	12:48
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crashanddie	"Museum offers night on a magic mushroom: Visitors to Berlin's Museum for Contemporary Art can book themselves a night in an installation which includes a floating hotel room on a platform shaped like a mushroom at a cost of 1,000 euros"	12:48
crashanddie	I was hoping for another kind of magic mushroom :(	12:49
sivang	crashanddie: hehe	12:49
sivang	crashanddie: you shoudl come here, or go to India :)	12:49
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timeless_mbp	crashanddie: does it include some padded surface to fall off onto?	12:49
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crashanddie	Oh hang on	12:52
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crashanddie	Anyone fancy buying a human head? just 22000 euros: http://www.plastination-products.com/Silicone-specimens/Human/Head/Whole-head/Head-trigeminal-nerve::435.html	12:53
Khertan	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD98O0rVev0	12:53
Khertan	a palm game natively (or near) on maemo :)	12:54
Khertan	hihi	12:54
lcuk	Khertan, your bug tracker has a bug	12:54
lcuk	kathy and I tried filing a bug on it on sunday morning	12:55
Khertan	lcuk, ?	12:55
Khertan	oh really ?	12:55
Khertan	what s the problem ?	12:55
lcuk	and it would not accept that and kept saying the math question was wrong	12:55
lcuk	and I know it was early, but we tried multiple times	12:55
lcuk	kathy has a screenshot	12:55
lcuk	we were filing something based on a bug in khweeteur	12:55
crashanddie	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqJDuZIcQ34	12:56
crashanddie	"SUP-RITE"	12:58
Khertan	lcuk, didn't have any problem	12:59
RST38h	How can I check for PR1.3 availability from a desktop browser? Is there a URL?	12:59
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tybollt	RST38h: please; no trolling	13:00
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Khertan	lcuk, http://khertan.net/khweeteur/bugs	13:00
Khertan	:)	13:00
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Yabba	Hello, is today d-day for pr1.3? Because I install something called 20.2010.36-2 right now...	13:01
lcuk	Khertan, now try it from n900 :P	13:01
PontusOhman	Yabba: > Yeah, that's the new FW for N900	13:02
tybollt	seriously, 1.3 today?	13:02
Khertan	lcuk, ah ...	13:02
Khertan	lcuk, with microb ?	13:02
sivang	it is?	13:02
tybollt	pontus: Hej! Verkligen, 1.3 idag?	13:02
Khertan	lcuk, or ff	13:02
sivang	no announcment nothing?	13:02
tybollt	someone please; a changelog for 1.3?	13:02
lcuk	Khertan, microb	13:02
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ZogG	RST38h check the livepr1.3.org	13:03
RST38h	tybollt: What trolling???	13:03
RST38h	ZogG: No, seriously, what is the URL for the repository?	13:04
lcuk	Khertan, get hold of kathy, she has screenshot of both the bug report and actual problem we were trying to highlight	13:04
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tybollt	RST38h: well, my apaologies then... :-S	13:04
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Khertan	lcuk, lol... i didn't have any problem	13:05
Khertan	mouarf	13:05
Khertan	:)	13:05
Khertan	maybe it s related to something else	13:05
PontusOhman	Take a look here: http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/n900	13:05
Khertan	Kathy never come on irc, isn't it ?	13:06
PontusOhman	Latest software release for Nokia N900 is 20.2010.36-2 *	13:06
RST38h	Comes here every now and then	13:06
tybollt	Khertan: she does visit here yes, however, not very often.	13:06
PontusOhman	tybollt: > Du har ju maemosweden and meegosweden att hänga i också om du vill ;)	13:06
timeless_mbp	en-* please :)	13:07
tybollt	PontusOhman: oh fan, visste inte :-o	13:07
tybollt	timeless_mbp: jajaja	13:08
tybollt	timeless_mbp: changelog, please?	13:08
* tybollt pokes timeless_mbp w/ a rusty fork		13:08
X-Fade	tybollt: andre will probably publish it when he has time.	13:09
Milhouse	maemo and meego forum infra seems unable to cope with load today...	13:09
timeless_mbp	tybollt: yeah, i'll leave it to andre	13:09
tybollt	X-Fade: you're in the committee right? Can't you give him a gentle nudge? :)	13:09
Milhouse	too much excitement, clearly.	13:09
timeless_mbp	tybollt: not much point, it's pretty safe to assume he'll do it	13:10
X-Fade	tybollt: He's not online, so can't do that ;)	13:10
timeless_mbp	a nudge is only worth doing if it doesn't arrive w/in a week	13:10
Khertan	arg ... it s hard to test my package with all this timeout	13:10
tybollt	A release w/out a changelog is like a hot fudge sundae ... w/out the hot fudge... :-S	13:10
timeless_mbp	he's either already working on it, in which case nudging is just annoying	13:10
tybollt	no	13:11
Milhouse	"Nokia don't do changelogs" - always been the case with maemo, although the last release wasn't too bad I have to admit.	13:11
timeless_mbp	or has something "much" more important he's working on, in which case the nudge would have to be ignored anyway and is thus both bothersome and counterproductive	13:11
jacekowski	hmm, with lirc	13:11
tybollt	the point is; annoy the man until he releases it	13:11
jacekowski	have anybody tried to controll air conditioning?	13:11
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FauxFaux	lirc is so terrible. :s	13:11
tybollt	jacek: Say what?	13:11
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: beyond turning the knob to control "cooling", adjusting a target temperature on a thermostat, or simply turning it on / off?	13:11
Venemo_N810	hi guys	13:12
timeless_mbp	Milhouse: err	13:12
jacekowski	timeless_mbp: i just want to use my phone instead of remote	13:12
timeless_mbp	there have been changelogs for maemo for a long time	13:12
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: x10?	13:12
sp3000	also, food	13:12
jacekowski	x10?	13:12
timeless_mbp	sp3000: now? i'm planning to do it ~2pm :(	13:12
Milhouse	timeless: it's been discussed often and Nokia/Maemo have always been reluctant to produce detailed changelogs. The situation has improved under Andre, but only to the extent of pulling out the public bug fixes	13:13
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timeless_mbp	tybollt: a release w/o a changelog is like a hot fudge sunday w/o the detailed ingredient list indicating exactly how much fat each sprinkle adds	13:13
Milhouse	timeless: in the early days there were no changelogs, mind you everything used to change from one release to the next so hardly surprising.	13:13
timeless_mbp	Milhouse: i did the browser release notes around maemo3 iirc	13:14
timeless_mbp	or maemo4	13:14
timeless_mbp	i know people appreciated them, but the reality is that the source input is garbage	13:14
timeless_mbp	which is ironic when you consider that maemo process requires everything go into a debian/changelog file	13:14
Milhouse	timeless: yeah, but I'm talking about the whole system, not just one app (thanks btw)	13:14
alterego	Heh	13:14
alterego	Can we start speculating about 1.4 now?	13:15
alterego	Qt 4.8?	13:15
timeless_mbp	the problem is that the stuff that went into those debian/changelog files by virtue of being mandatory was mostly junk to satisfy a process requirement	13:15
alterego	:D	13:15
Venemo_N810	timeless, what do you mean by the source input is garbage?	13:15
timeless_mbp	alterego: it Qt 4.8 is needed for the MeeGo to be used in some hypothetical Nokia MeeGo first offering	13:15
Milhouse	timeless: yep, there was public criticism of some entries - there may even be a bug entry for it	13:15
Venemo_N810	alterego, why do you ask?	13:16
Khertan	alterego, before you should make a thread that pr1.3 didn't bring new feature and say that nokia ignore you and that you sell your device	13:16
timeless_mbp	then it's a reasonable bet on Qt 4.8	13:16
timeless_mbp	otoh, if 4.8 won't be in that first offering, it's reasonable to bet against it	13:16
Milhouse	wondering if a full battery is sufficient to install PR1.3... very slow update process.	13:16
ShadowJK	Could you guys stop releasing software updates, that cesspool by the name of t.m.o. is not responding :/	13:16
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: lol	13:16
alterego	Khertan: noted, I'll also mention at how MeeGo is the bastard son of intel and nokia and will never see the ligght of day, hahah	13:16
Milhouse	t.m.o and forum.meego have both gone down - same infra. whoops. :)	13:16
Khertan	arf	13:17
alterego	Hahah	13:17
tybollt	timeless_mbp: boo :P	13:17
ShadowJK	I should call Nokia Care and see if they've fixed my N900 yet	13:17
Milhouse	Is Qt 4.7 in PR1.3?	13:17
becks	btw, http://talk.maemo.org/ is unreachable ?	13:17
Khertan	so this is really PR1.3 ? with Qt 4.7 ?	13:17
Venemo_N810	what, 1.3 has been released for real?	13:17
Milhouse	becks: yep, as is the meego forum.	13:17
timeless_mbp	becks: only mentioned 10 times in the last 5mins	13:17
becks	timeless_mbp: sorry...	13:17
tybollt	becks: yeah, the kiddies are probably jizzing their pants over this release	13:17
becks	tybollt: lol	13:17
sp3000	oh just put http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/talk.maemo.org in the topic already ;)	13:18
Venemo_N810	lol	13:18
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phryk	I wonder what would happen, if google started to completely ignore all icmp packets from one day to the other…	13:20
ShadowJK	would that be your 20% project at google?	13:20
phryk	my what?	13:21
ShadowJK	google employees have one day per week to work on their own random projects	13:21
phryk	oh god	13:21
phryk	awesome	13:22
Khertan	tybollt, http://pastebin.com/K8RAgg2j	13:22
Venemo_N810	yeah	13:22
phryk	one reason more to work for google	13:22
crashanddie	lol	13:22
crashanddie	working at Google must suck ass	13:22
ZogG	i heard there is project googlenet	13:22
Venemo_N810	and if it is good enough, it'll be productized	13:22
phryk	I am thinking about doing that anyways	13:22
phryk	crashanddie: why that?	13:22
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ZogG	and googlenoid	13:22
Venemo_N810	like gmail	13:22
phryk	work environment at google is pure awesome	13:22
crashanddie	Did an interview for them, the only thing they showed me for 2 hours was "Look, FREE CAFETERIA! Look, FREE GYM! Look, FREE BILLIARD! Look, FREE WII!"	13:23
xnt14	Is talk.maemo.org down for anyone?	13:23
crashanddie	When asked if I could see the actual work spaces, they said "Well you'll have plenty of time to see those if you pass the interviews"	13:23
Venemo_N810	yes	13:23
sivang	crashanddie: they asked me mind boogling python question to try and use python as c, not like!	13:23
phryk	crashanddie: lol	13:23
Milhouse	xnt14: no works for me, what's the problem? ;-)	13:23
sivang	xnt14: not for the faint of heart :)	13:23
ZogG	Khertan i have 11 only	13:24
Khertan	11 ?	13:24
xnt14	Milhouse, sivang: it gives me "connection reset"	13:24
ZogG	and dist-upgrade doesn't work of dependies problem or something	13:24
Khertan	ZogG, ah yes i ve some depandancy problem :)	13:24
ZogG	Khertan about this one http://pastebin.com/K8RAgg2j	13:24
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crashanddie	Google these days is more of a sect than a company.	13:25
Khertan	but this was just to see which package are updated	13:25
ZogG	Khertan pr1.3?	13:25
lardman	morning	13:25
Khertan	ZogG, it seem's	13:25
Khertan	ZogG, my nit is downloading	13:26
Khertan	will see	13:26
Khertan	:)	13:26
ZogG	i didn't get it yet	13:26
xnt14	nevermind, it loaded now. :)	13:26
Venemo_N810	is there a changelog?	13:26
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Termana	crashanddie, like apple?	13:28
Khertan	lol didn't install ask for pc suite	13:28
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danielwilms	Venemo_N810: hey, the changelog is here: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt	13:29
Venemo_N810	danielwilms, thx	13:30
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lardman	is this OTA? We won't need a specific image/components for the pre-summit devices?	13:30
Khertan	Youhou ! Qt4.7	13:30
Khertan	i got an OTA	13:31
Khertan	but ask for pcsuite	13:31
Khertan	i don't want to flash	13:31
Khertan	so trying to made some place to see	13:31
lardman	k	13:31
Venemo_N810	danielwilms, this is for the sdk, right?	13:31
Milhouse	getting errors from the Opera repository after the upgrade - 404 not found, so will disable.	13:35
Venemo_N810	danielwilms, is there one for the device?	13:35
ZogG	Milhousecause it changed to pr1.3 from pr1.3 ?	13:36
danielwilms	Venemo_N810: yep, that's for the SDK	13:37
Milhouse	yeah, looks like 1-3 has been appended	13:37
danielwilms	for the device I don't know, but I can try to figure out	13:37
X-Fade	Interesting new packages added are: dsme-dev dsme-thermalobject-surface libqt4-declarative python-xcbgen qt4-declarative-qmlviewer	13:38
X-Fade	For SDK that is.	13:38
Venemo_N810	hmm	13:38
Venemo_N810	well the latter are self-explanatory	13:39
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Venemo_N810	but what can one do with dsme-dev	13:39
Venemo_N810	?	13:39
ZogG	i even don't know what firmware i have i think i got global last update as i flashed	13:39
alterego	Heh	13:39
ZogG	but not sure =)	13:39
* sivang tries to update		13:39
sivang	OTA	13:39
ZogG	no updates here =(	13:39
sivang	but is only shows me updates for ukeyboards and other	13:39
sivang	stil checks for updates, takes it a good while	13:40
ZogG	=(	13:40
tybollt	crashanddie: indeed, you see people entering google all the time - rarely see anyone leaving...	13:40
Venemo_N810	is there a fw file for flashing too?	13:40
PontusOhman	F*CK! Why can't they do it right from the begining... To update now I need a freaking Winbloat machine :@	13:41
sivang	X-Fade: yes, so the nice guys from Helsinki were right. The dsme "docs" got released	13:41
sivang	or sort of	13:42
Venemo_N810	PontusOhman, why?	13:42
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PontusOhman	Venemo_N810: > Got the update on my phone right now... But when I wanted to update it tells me I need a PC to continue :@	13:43
Milhouse	I've posted a message in the Maemo5 thread on the opera forum asking them to add a symlink from http://deb.opera.com/maemo/dists/fremantle-1.3 to http://deb.opera.com/maemo/dists/fremantle which is what they did for PR1.2. Hope they read it soon.	13:43
ZogG	PontusOhman ерфт игн ЗС =)	13:43
ZogG	than buy PC =)*	13:43
Khertan	PontusOhman, same here	13:43
Venemo_N810	PontusOhman, that sux	13:44
PontusOhman	And for us with Linux it's no go	13:44
jaska	hrm, no fiasco images, guess ill wait then :\|	13:44
Khertan	PontusOhman, i think cleaning root is the answer	13:44
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Khertan	PontusOhman, but i can't point you on how to do, as the thread explaining how to is on t.m.o which is down	13:45
PontusOhman	ZogG: что	13:45
Venemo_N810	PontusOhman, I agree with Khertan... make room on rootfs	13:45
visz	i can't see no update	13:45
visz	atleast no OTA	13:45
Venemo_N810	hm	13:45
Milhouse	visz - what language is your device?	13:45
visz	finnish	13:46
Khertan	PontusOhman, remove extra devel if installed	13:46
visz	well i'm not in a hurry	13:46
Milhouse	visz: certainly available in the UK (I'm using the Global image). maybe other languages are being rolled out?	13:47
ZogG	f#k my version is unknow (	13:47
Milhouse	anyone know the cause of the "conflicting distribution" warning with PR1.3?	13:47
X-Fade	ZogG: Just re-install the meta package then.	13:47
PontusOhman	Khertan: > They are removed ^^	13:48
Milhouse	"W: Conflicting distribution: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3 Release (expected fremantle-1.3 but got )"	13:48
ZogG	X-Fade maemo package?	13:48
X-Fade	Milhouse: Yes.	13:48
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Milhouse	X-Fade: Do tell :)	13:48
ZogG	X-Fade trying to unisntall kernel utf and ntfs support	13:48
ZogG	should nitdroid kernel and kexec do this?	13:48
Milhouse	X-Fade: Is there a fix?	13:48
X-Fade	I still need to remove the symlink and properly index the fremantle-1.3 repo.	13:48
X-Fade	On the server end.	13:48
Milhouse	X-Fade: aha, ok thanks. will wait patiently. :)	13:49
X-Fade	Milhouse: Or edit your catalog entry and put fremantle-1.2 in there ;)	13:49
ZogG	X-Fade are you repo admin ?	13:49
X-Fade	ZogG: Yes.	13:50
tybollt	so nokia asked to have TMO downed so as to not spread any gossip about the release, eh?	13:50
Milhouse	so far pr1.3 does feel snappier - might be just my imagination but opening apps (email, conversations, contacts, xterm) is instant, no delays.	13:50
tybollt	<-- tin-foil-hat-ON	13:50
Surfa	Milhouse, so is said	13:51
tybollt	well	13:51
ZogG	X-Fade is the package name is mp-freemantle-003-pr and how do i force to reinstall	13:51
ZogG	?	13:51
X-Fade	ZogG: just apt-get install it?	13:51
tybollt	"speed improvements" is one of those lovely things you can just spout and noboy will be able to quantify it so dumb users everywhere just buys right into it :)	13:51
X-Fade	tybollt: Well it has a lot less swapping, so it will indeed be faster.	13:52
Milhouse	emails should open much quicker thanks to the notification icon close bug being squashed (bug 11139)	13:52
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11139 Long delays in email interface	13:52
timeless_mbp	oddly internally we spend a lot of time measuring speed	13:52
ZogG	X-Fade says it newest one - nothing to do =)	13:52
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SpeedEvil	pr1.3?	13:53
SpeedEvil	Is it OTA yet?	13:54
Surfa	yes	13:54
Milhouse	waiting for browserd to wake up still means first page load in microb is sloooow. one reason why I prefer Opera, but then when I hit a page with flash (eg. BBC News) I hancker for microb. I wish that could be fixed, it really lets microb down badly.	13:54
Milhouse	SpeedEvil: Yes, at least for English/Global	13:54
ZogG	damn and i have unknown version at all =(	13:55
jacekowski	~pr1.3	13:55
infobot	STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever	13:55
ZogG	damn	13:55
* SpeedEvil ponders what customisation he has that would be wiped out.		13:55
ZogG	<jacekowski> ~pr1.3 //selfban?	13:55
Venemo_N810	lol	13:57
tybollt	SpeedEvil: Pondering flashing?	13:57
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SpeedEvil	tybollt: something like that	13:58
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tybollt	http://thenokiablog.com/2010/10/13/nokia-n900-pr13-dual-boot-meego/	14:01
tybollt	so	14:01
tybollt	what is a 'meego developer'?	14:01
tybollt	user -> sign nda -> meego developer?	14:01
sivang	nda?	14:01
Stskeeps	what ndas?	14:01
Stskeeps	:P	14:01
tybollt	Stskeeps: :)	14:02
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tybollt	so again, what makes one a meego developer then?	14:02
sivang	http://paste.pocoo.org/show/280347/	14:02
sivang	anyone has a clue?	14:02
Vertig0	A developer that develops meego, tybollt?	14:02
sivang	tybollt: the fact he gets commit access to b.m.c ?	14:02
Milhouse	tybolt: anyone capable of downloading a file, copying to a microsd and running flasher to boot their device.	14:02
Milhouse	tybolt: I think it's meant in the broadest sense	14:03
tybollt	yeah	14:03
ccooke	So... In lieu of t.m.o, is there a changelog or such document for pr1.3 yet?	14:03
tybollt	should be	14:03
ccooke	(or any feedback at all?)	14:03
Milhouse	ccooke: not yet.	14:03
ccooke	Milhouse: cheers	14:03
* RST38h still thinks that to qualify as "enabling meego boot", PR1.3 should have contained a runtime selection, even via a key held during bootup		14:03
Milhouse	ccooke: seems quicker, so claims of "performance improvements" seem genuine, at least so far! :)	14:03
RST38h	Nobody is going to be pulling/inserting SD cards on the permanent basis	14:04
Milhouse	RST38h - would have been nice, very slick and garned some kudos too.	14:04
tybollt	Milhouse: how did you quantify that? Before and after results using microb?	14:04
tybollt	Milhouse: what scripts are you using what apps do you have installed... etc etc :)	14:04
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sivang	1.3 downlaoind over the air	14:04
* sivang goes to lunch		14:04
Milhouse	RST38h - I don't pull my card, I just dd to it while it remains in the device.	14:04
RST38h	Is there a changelist somewhere?	14:04
tybollt	RST38h: apparently "andre is working on it"... is all I got	14:05
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RST38h	mghm	14:05
Milhouse	tybollt: yep, it "feels" quicker. My most often used apps (email, conversations, contacts) now start up "super quick" (c) Steve Jobs	14:05
andre__	aha?	14:06
tybollt	Milhouse: Wow, some proof you got there :)	14:06
Milhouse	tybolt: hey, go do your scientific tests yourself. I've only had it 30 minutes.	14:06
crashanddie	woop de fucking woop. "It feels faster"	14:06
tybollt	:)	14:07
crashanddie	Maybe Nokia should release a placebo PR every month, and in 6 months, the N900 will be faster than a quad core xeon.	14:07
Milhouse	crashanddie: surely that's all that fcking matters?	14:07
Appiah	:D	14:07
tybollt	crashanddie: :-D	14:07
Milhouse	crashanddie: I'll wait patiently for your in depth and scientific testing. When can we expect it?	14:08
Venemo_N810	crashanddie, yeah	14:08
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ccooke	Milhouse: how's about the indication that we'd be able to dual-boot meego?	14:08
crashanddie	Nokia PM: "OK, The files have been updated, send out the PR!" Nokia engineer 1: "So what exactly did we change?" Nokia engineer 2: "The file last modified date timestamp"	14:08
VladNistor-of	just got the OTA in Romania, but i need to wait until I get home. I also need to uninstall M-AG's modest to be able to upgrade.	14:08
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RST38h	crashanddie: you perfectly well know that Nokia cannot release a PR every month	14:08
Milhouse	ccooke: what indication? it was all a misunderstanding.	14:08
RST38h	crashanddie: It has to go through several layers of testing, certificaiotn, and approval	14:08
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ccooke	Milhouse: I was expecting that :-)	14:08
RST38h	crashanddie: Very important business, that PR is...	14:09
crashanddie	RST38h, QA scripts for "touch"?	14:09
Shapeshifter	oh lol	14:09
Shapeshifter	didn't expect this	14:09
sivang	anybody has an idea, shout	14:09
kke	any ideas how to separate music from audiobooks/application sound files in n900 mediaplayer? it's annoying to hear some navigation software "turn left at the next intersection after 300 meters"-stuff in middle of music	14:09
kke	and parts of audiobooks	14:09
sivang	http://paste.pocoo.org/show/280347/	14:09
tybollt	Milhouse: he didn't assert it is faster - YOU asserted it is faster indeed, so either you put up or shut up :-)	14:09
sivang	or rather, why would this have changed since last upgradE?	14:09
Shapeshifter	so I assume I don't have to take any precautions for this PR as it doesn't do much?	14:10
crashanddie	Milhouse, I don't really care about it. I'm just amazed at the plethora of "it feels faster/snappier", when really, it's just thanks to a reboot for most users who had it on for the past couple months or so.	14:10
Milhouse	tybollt: Someone asked MY opinion!!! Jeezz.... tough crowd.	14:10
Milhouse	crashanddie: I've been rebooting/starting apps long enough to know if they're "feel" quicker	14:10
Milhouse	crashanddie: Sorry I don't have the nanosecond timing that you crave	14:10
crashanddie	Milhouse, and it really isn't against you, just the general communities (be it Maemo, Android or iOS) doing exactly the same thing for every update.	14:10
SpeedEvil	kke: exclude from search	14:11
Venemo_N810	kke, try to separate them by metadata... eg, album, artist, etc	14:11
SpeedEvil	kke: See...	14:11
Milhouse	it was a snapshot opinion, what more do you expect for something that has only been available a few hours? blimey.	14:11
SpeedEvil	kke: ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg	14:11
* alterego sighs		14:11
kke	SpeedEvil: hmm ok cool	14:11
crashanddie	Milhouse, how about we just let this boat float away silently? :)	14:11
alterego	I juss wanna firmware image.	14:11
Milhouse	crashanddie: agreed. :)	14:12
SpeedEvil	kke: exclude the dirs they are in	14:12
tybollt	Milhouse: that's picosecond to you...	14:12
crashanddie	tybollt, femtoseconds?	14:12
Venemo_N810	alterego: no image on tablets-dev?	14:12
Milhouse	venomo: not yet	14:12
crashanddie	tybollt, or maybe even zeptoseconds?	14:12
tybollt	heh	14:13
alterego	Nope	14:13
nidO	am I actually reading this right that the ota image needs 84.5mb of rootfs space?	14:13
Milhouse	nid0: sounds about right - mine was 84.3MB	14:13
Venemo_N810	nidO, if that is the case, then lol	14:13
tybollt	but yeah, what crashie says... it's the general "zOMG this is so much faster thatn $PRIOR_RELEASE" w/out ever actually verifying that...	14:13
ZogG	my version is unknown and reisntalling mp-fremantle-003-pr didn't help here	14:14
Shapeshifter	meh	14:14
nidO	Venemo_N810, yeah thats the lol i've run up against, app manager is telling me to fo and use pc suite :\	14:14
Venemo_N810	nidO, or make enough room on rootfs	14:14
Shapeshifter	damn	14:14
nidO	74mb free atm, to my knowledge even a fresh flash is only a couple of mb more than that	14:15
Shapeshifter	where am I supposed to dig up 20mb of root space... /me disables -devel	14:15
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alterego	And tmo is still screwed	14:15
X-Fade	Milhouse: Can you see if updating Extras now works without the warning?	14:15
X-Fade	Milhouse: Should be fixed now.	14:15
Venemo_N810	see the various moveroot scripts or uninstall -devel stuff	14:15
nidO	see my comment re a fresh flash. this update cant expect more rootfs space than a clean install provides without having to move shit, surely	14:16
RST38h	Let us wait for 7+ days and see if the performance degradation is there yet	14:16
RST38h	If the device still becomes dead slow in 7 days.... Well you know...	14:17
Milhouse	X-Fade: Verified fixed, many thanks! That was quick, although I don't have any accurate timings to verify this blah blah. ;)	14:17
Shapeshifter	now	14:17
X-Fade	Milhouse: It is just one of those todo items on a release day ;)	14:17
Shapeshifter	if this doesn't do anything, why should I be bothered with updating even.	14:17
Shapeshifter	and moving stuff	14:17
Shapeshifter	silly update...	14:17
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Milhouse	Shapreshifter: emails open quicker (and provably so!) :)	14:18
X-Fade	Qt 4.7 is the big change.	14:18
Shapeshifter	mh :\|	14:18
Venemo_N810	qt 4.7 rulz	14:18
Milhouse	I'll just go install alt of those wonderous Qt 4.7 apps... oh.	14:18
Shapeshifter	I always had some 65mb free, now it's 55 for some reason after a reboot. lame. and disabling -devel didn't do anything	14:19
jacekowski	hmm, it looks like camera flash is brighter during flash than during any other operation	14:19
ZogG	http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com would be down if everyone checksif TMO is down?	14:19
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: that's because it is	14:19
X-Fade	jacekowski: Of course. There is flash and flash light mode.	14:19
X-Fade	jacekowski: Flash is 250mA, flashlight is 50mA or so ;)	14:20
Venemo_N810	lol	14:20
Shapeshifter	;_;	14:20
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xkr47	PR1.3 ?	14:22
dolp	mmm.. should 1.3 be at tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?	14:22
Milhouse	xrk47: yes, it's out	14:22
Milhouse	dolp: yes, eventually	14:23
xkr47	\o/	14:23
andre__	dolp: always takes longer	14:23
Venemo_N810	dolp, notyet	14:23
dolp	oh ok.. how much longer? :)	14:23
dolp	hours? days? weeks?	14:23
toggles	10 mins, it's uploading	14:23
tybollt	woot, I just got it OTA	14:23
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Shapeshifter	argh dpkg	14:23
Shapeshifter	why so complicated...	14:23
tybollt	Shapeshifter: dun worry lad, it'	14:24
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erani	isn't this upgrade 20.2010.36-2 just pr1.2 update?	14:24
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tybollt	Shapeshifter: dun worry lad, it'll soon be rpm and yum all around (goes to the corner to vomit)	14:24
Venemo_N810	erani, no	14:24
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Venemo_N810	tybollt, rpm yes, yum no	14:24
jacekowski	is it OTA for UK?	14:24
Shapeshifter	tybollt: I don't know rpm but by now I doubt it's worse than apt...	14:24
Shapeshifter	/deb	14:24
Milhouse	jacekowski: yep, got it here in south london	14:24
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erani	i'm in finland and my phone just notified of the fw upgrade	14:25
Milhouse	jaceokowski: mind you, i picked it up over WiFi	14:25
lardman	yeah also downloading here in Bath	14:25
SpeedEvil	lardman: I hope you have accidental damage insurance.	14:25
lardman	SpeedEvil: ;)	14:25
tybollt	Shapeshifter: You will learn how indeed it CAN be worse, a great fucking deal worse, than apt/deb :-)	14:25
alterego	fff, I might just do OTA	14:26
alterego	I don't wanna though :(	14:26
SpeedEvil	I doubt OTA will work for many, due to the reported stupid space needed	14:26
alterego	Heh	14:26
Shapeshifter	tybollt: really? Like in debians packaging files (which there are many of) the syntax needs to be spot-on, like "two spaces at the beginning of that line or else I'll screw your dog"	14:26
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tybollt	Venemo_N810: ah pardon me then, I suppose moblin invented their own whee... wrapper for rpm then?	14:26
Shapeshifter	and there's a billion files involved in making the simplest of packages	14:26
lardman	hmm, I've got a Summary saying it requires PC Suite, and conflicts with libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img	14:27
Milhouse	SpeedEvil: Worked fine for me, but then I don't have that much cr@p on my device. :)	14:27
RST38h	What? Another wrapper?	14:27
Shapeshifter	and then there's all those completely superfluous states like "installed but not configured"	14:27
Venemo_N810	tybollt, I dunno, Stskeeps told me it's not yum	14:27
tybollt	RST38h: you tell me? :S	14:27
RST38h	lardman: Should nto require PC Suite	14:27
RST38h	lardman: But you better get rid of those libs	14:27
lardman	RST38h: just what the update summary says in HAM	14:27
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* RST38h probably connected via US-based network proxy, still no update here		14:27
RST38h	lardman: try apt-get	14:28
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Shapeshifter	tybollt: so, how would I go about finding out which packages I installed came from extras-devel?	14:28
tybollt	ehr... ask RST, he's the expert :)	14:28
tybollt	but I suppose dpkg -l some some could tell you?	14:29
toggles	dammit... qtlocation..	14:29
lardman	ok, so removing libqt4-test removes python2.5-qt4	14:29
Shapeshifter	tybollt: no. packages usually don't know where they come from	14:29
lardman	no worries there really	14:29
Venemo_N810	why not just remove it?	14:29
tybollt	Shapeshifter: fair enough, then I've no idea.	14:30
lardman	and CloudGPS pulled in the libgles1 dep	14:30
nidO	brain party also uses libgles1	14:30
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vdv	does anybody use claws mail? is it possible to hide from tasklist, but still receive mails? has it daemon?	14:30
RST38h	no	14:31
tybollt	to be perfectly honest I didnt even restore my backup onto my device after getting it back from the shop...	14:31
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tybollt	oh and the beauty of it is I just started a new gig so I get new phone numbers en masse... so doing the backup restoration thing will mean effectively merging phonebooks	14:31
tybollt	oh sweet baby jeebus :-\|	14:32
Venemo_N810	hehe	14:32
Shapeshifter	tybollt: well do you know how to list all packages in a repo?	14:32
xkr47	"Maemo 5 - Download now via WLAN to get the latest" ... WLAN ? :)	14:33
tybollt	Shapeshifter: For *deb based distros that is always provided as a list on http someplace.. (google -> ubuntu deb repo for instance)... so I'm guessing maemo.org provides some similar	14:34
Venemo_N810	ask X-Fade	14:34
Shapeshifter	._.	14:34
asj__	xkr47: ?	14:35
ZogG	got update	14:35
Shapeshifter	tybollt: have you used any other package managers for linux before?	14:35
psycho_oreos	hmm usually with apt it keeps a list of the contents in a repo or the repo site	14:35
xkr47	that was the comment for the update..	14:35
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tybollt	Shapeshifter: what point are you making? :)	14:35
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Milhouse	xkr47: WLAN == WiFi	14:36
xkr47	are they saying "WLAN" to avoid people accidentally updating via 3G	14:36
RobbieThe1st	yea	14:36
xkr47	I prefer USB networking ;-)	14:36
lardman	~curse HAM for its stupid "Operation is in progress please wait" messages without any visible activity indication	14:36
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, HAM for its stupid "Operation is in progress please wait" messages without any visible activity indication !	14:36
xkr47	it should be installed by default	14:36
asj__	xkr47: moving 86megs over 3g might be bad for some people	14:36
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Shapeshifter	tybollt: if it had aptitude, I could do something like sudo aptitude search "?origin (<repository>) ?installed"	14:36
tybollt	Shapeshifter: if you want me to rain on your parade and list each and everyone of the EPIC FAILs in yum, sure I'll do it.	14:36
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RobbieThe1st	You guys actually -use- the app manager? Ouch.	14:37
Shapeshifter	tybollt: yes please, because I don't know anything about it	14:37
SpeedEvil	Odd.	14:37
lardman	RobbieThe1st: only when I have time to waste	14:37
SpeedEvil	UK - no update found	14:37
RobbieThe1st	Between apt-get and (occasionally) FAM///	14:37
Milhouse	RobbieThe1st: Not if I can help it.	14:37
tybollt	Shapeshifter: Hmm good point, so aptitude isn't ported then?	14:37
* SpeedEvil checks version.		14:37
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RobbieThe1st	"sudo gainroot", "sudo apt-get update", "sudo apt-get install app". Some of the most time-saving commands imaginable	14:37
nidO	update's finally going for me after clearing out libgles1-sgx-img	14:37
tybollt	SpeedEvil: ORLY? Even we in .se have got it OTA now...	14:37
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SpeedEvil	update in app-manager, and I get nuffink	14:38
lardman	SpeedEvil: Works for me	14:38
RobbieThe1st	Bye all	14:38
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jacekowski	nothing here	14:38
Shapeshifter	tybollt: nah. I'd really just need a list of all packages, I'm looking for that html atm, because then I could do cat the-list \| grep $(dpkg -l \| awk -F '\t' '{print $2}')	14:38
jacekowski	no update for uk	14:38
Shapeshifter	tybollt: nah. I'd really just need a list of all packages, I'm looking for that html atm, because then I could do cat the-list \| grep $(dpkg -l \| awk -F ' ' '{print $2}') actually	14:38
jacekowski	~rant nokia	14:38
lardman	jacekowski: works for me	14:38
th3hate	i got libqtm updates in app manager from nokia software update catelog, but they coflict with every qt 4.6 package, how do i install them?	14:38
jacekowski	lardman: do you have UK firmware?	14:38
jacekowski	lardman: or global?	14:38
lardman	UK afaik	14:38
lardman	but then again it's a pre-summit device, so who knows	14:39
RST38h	lardman: You haven't returned yours yet?	14:39
tybollt	Shapeshifter: again... it seems highly reasonable to probide it via html, certainly seeing as ubuntu and debian does so.	14:40
lardman	RST38h: I asked if I could keep it to keep working on and was told yes	14:40
lardman	RST38h: I didn't pick up one at the summit	14:40
Venemo_N810	lardman, what are you working on?	14:40
Shapeshifter	tybollt: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ can't find it :\| I'd need to extract the Packages.gz	14:40
lardman	mBarcode	14:40
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Milhouse	Now on Nokia Conversations, but doesn't say anything we didn't already know: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/	14:40
RST38h	lardman: Same here	14:40
Shapeshifter	tybollt: but then I'm just as far as apt-cache dumpavail	14:40
RST38h	lardman: Mine went to the next guy though, I bought myself a new one	14:41
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ZogG	anyone had problem with python2.5-minimal and pymaemo-optify?	14:41
RST38h	pymaemo-optify sucks.	14:41
Shapeshifter	tybollt: and apt-cache doesn't take a repo argument	14:41
Shapeshifter	tybollt: or at least I don't see one	14:42
MohammadAG51	it doesn't	14:42
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: do you know how to list all packages that reside in a repo?	14:42
RST38h	it should show repository names during dumpavail though	14:42
ZogG	RST38h yes, can't upgrade cause of it	14:42
RST38h	ZogG: Remove all Python packages.	14:43
Shapeshifter	RST38h: doesn't	14:43
ZogG	RST38h, it would remove a lot of stuff i use and need and love =)	14:43
erani	the "Brilliant just got better" link in maemo.nokia.com site takes the user to the older news from May...	14:43
erani	nothing big but just mentioned :o	14:43
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PontusOhman	Epic Fail on Nokia just now... The update manager in my phone tells me to hock up my phone to a Windows PC with Nokia PC Suite! Nokia PC Suite isn't compatible with N900 :@	14:46
Stskeeps	or use flasher	14:46
Stskeeps	:P	14:46
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, apt-cache something	14:46
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: orly	14:47
PontusOhman	Stskeeps: Have they released it as a flash?	14:47
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, apt-cache pkgnames	14:47
lardman	hmm, slightly worrying my screen has gone black	14:47
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: excuse me?	14:47
tybollt	PontusOhman: Ovi suite is	14:47
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: My question was, how I could list all packages that are available in extras-devel	14:47
MohammadAG51	sigh	14:47
RST38h	Shapeshifter: packrat	14:47
crashanddie	lardman, Once you go black, there's no way back.	14:47
PontusOhman	tybollt: > Yeah, on Winbloat ^^	14:48
ZogG	so how can i fix this python thing without actually removing all python apps?	14:48
tybollt	crashanddie: :-D	14:48
lardman	crashanddie: is it doing something in the bg then?	14:48
RST38h	Just remove Python and all Python apps	14:48
MohammadAG51	apt-cache stats Shapeshifter	14:48
lardman	or are you taking the mick? :)	14:48
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ZogG	RST38h =(	14:49
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: what do you mean? that just prints stats. I mean a list of one package name per line, listing all packages	14:49
_davidx_	Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?	14:49
PontusOhman	Stskeeps: > No flashfile here. http://tablets-dev.[D[D[D[D[Dnokia.com/nokia_N900.php	14:49
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tybollt	gahahaha	14:49
tybollt	please someone KB _davidx_, obvious spambot :-)	14:50
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, dude, i already answered that	14:50
MohammadAG51	apt-cache pkgnames	14:50
SpeedEvil	dpkg -l	14:50
_davidx_	are you sure i'm a spambot?	14:50
tybollt	crashie?	14:50
MohammadAG51	SpeedEvil, he asked for all packages in the repo, not the ones installed :)	14:50
SpeedEvil	ah	14:50
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: but that lists all packages, not just those of a given repo	14:50
SpeedEvil	install all packages	14:50
crashanddie	_davidx_, identify yourself	14:50
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, disable other repos	14:51
MohammadAG51	don't know any other way	14:51
_davidx_	i'm a person	14:51
MohammadAG51	umm, sec	14:51
crashanddie	tybollt, he's australian	14:51
_davidx_	i'm actually a bot designed to pass the turing test	14:51
crashanddie	tybollt, might be a bit weird	14:51
_davidx_	am I passing?	14:51
erani	OTA update successful here o/ from quick walkthrough it seems that OS and transistions speeds have increased greatly...	14:51
Stskeeps	_davidx_: with your sentence above you did not	14:51
tybollt	crashanddie: fair enough...	14:51
DocScrutinizer	_davidx_: your post didn't look like, so prove	14:51
_davidx_	prove what?	14:51
_davidx_	that i'm not a spambot?	14:51
DocScrutinizer	k, god enough for me :-D	14:52
DocScrutinizer	good*	14:52
_davidx_	it better be	14:52
lardman	Can someone who has applied the OTA update tell me if you get a black screen, and if so how long does it last for before rebooting?	14:52
crashanddie	_davidx_, "it better be"?	14:52
tybollt	what's $DEITY to do w/ this doc? :P	14:52
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, Nokia-N900:/opt/var/lib/apt/lists# cat repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages \| grep Package \| grep -v Packaged \| sed s/Package\:\ //g	14:52
_davidx_	it better be "good enough".	14:52
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erani	crashanddie: didn't last long. the whole update took 15min and reboot for about ~15-20sec	14:53
crashanddie	this is good enough for me too, bitch	14:53
tybollt	,-D	14:53
erani	lardman: i mean	14:53
erani	-.-	14:53
lardman	erani: did you have a working screen throughout?	14:53
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erani	no, when the update process began the screen locked and I used the slider to unlock to see the progress bar	14:53
DocScrutinizer	hohohoh	14:54
lardman	ah, perhaps that's it	14:54
lardman	phew, thanks	14:54
DocScrutinizer	monday morning madness?	14:54
lardman	DocScrutinizer: got to be something to take away the pain of a Monday ;)	14:54
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, got what you wanted? :)	14:54
sivang	mine told me there's not enough battery for the upgrade	14:54
sivang	that's nice	14:55
* sivang will plug into the wallet and retry		14:55
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: thanks!	14:55
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: was this really necessary?	14:55
DocScrutinizer	ok	14:55
DocScrutinizer	:-D	14:55
Milhouse	Bless him, finally Peter the marketing bloke gets around to spreading the word... http://twitter.com/#!/PeterMeeGo/status/28682507212	14:56
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Milhouse	If this were Google or Apple, they'd have been spinning this for weeks already.	14:56
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erani	oh, nice to see that all contacts' portrait photos got better resolution back again :) with 1.2 they somehow blurred after syncing with FB && merge	14:56
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Scelt	erani: so you got OTA update already?	14:57
alterego	Probably tweeting because he can't access tmo :)	14:57
erani	Scelt: yeah	14:57
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alterego	It's on nokia conversations now too.	14:57
MohammadAG51	OTA what?	14:57
tybollt	Milhouse: You've to consider that Nokia don't really want or care for N900... it's like the cinderella of mobile phones...	14:57
MohammadAG51	pr1.3 came out?	14:57
Scelt	erani: what operator?	14:57
MohammadAG51	wait is this pr1.3?	14:57
erani	all menus and calendars work now without glitching or slowing down \o/ yay	14:57
erani	calendar*	14:58
* tybollt tilts MohammadAG51 w/ frals		14:58
erani	Scelt: elisa @ FI	14:58
MohammadAG51	erani, what update	14:58
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Scelt	erani: I have saunalahti so I think I should get it too	14:58
MohammadAG51	pr1.3 better not come out	14:58
tybollt	why not?	14:58
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: Already did.	14:58
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Stskeeps	MohammadAG51: who said fremantle was dead ;)	14:59
Scelt	erani: did you do any changes or just updated thru app manager?	15:00
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MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, sorry about #meego lol	15:00
erani	MohammadAG51: 20.2010.36-2 was the codename, it seems that it is the pr 1.3 update yeah. maemo.nokia.com has the news too	15:00
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MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, Qt 4.7 has a bug, I hope it isn't there in...	15:00
MohammadAG51	wtf	15:00
erani	Scelt: just backed up everything and updated via app manager	15:00
Scelt	erani: odd, I see no trace about pr1.34	15:00
MohammadAG51	36-2 is the leaked testing image	15:00
Scelt	-4	15:00
erani	MohammadAG51: -.o'	15:01
erani	got it via official repos though	15:01
kerio	oh shit i can't upgrade :<	15:01
MohammadAG51	yes, but it has bugs	15:01
MohammadAG51	erani, install psfreedom	15:01
MohammadAG51	tap title bar	15:01
MohammadAG51	click kernel messages	15:02
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: 20100909.	15:02
MohammadAG51	if it shows black text on black bg, it still has the bug	15:02
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, ?	15:02
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: That is the git snapshot.	15:02
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Khertan	humm ... style warn about installing via nokia update	15:03
Khertan	grrr	15:03
sivang	what's that dreadful parameter to the kernel to allow sb qemu to run?	15:03
Khertan	need more rootfs space	15:03
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lardman	hmm, well it's certainly running quite snappily	15:04
toggles	man, that was an easy flsh	15:04
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secyritas	hmph, app manager does not offer pr1.3 for leaked img	15:04
erani	oooooh, media player works in portrait. gonna love that @ school	15:04
Scelt	erani: I see it now. fapman failed to see it before	15:04
totalizator	hi, why I can't install binary-only packages for diablo4.1.2_armel in scrathbox? http://pastebin.com/ivJxf8J4	15:05
lardman	sivang: echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled ?	15:06
lardman	sivang: there's another if it's not exposed there	15:06
sivang	lardman: thanks	15:06
Scelt	damn, memory errors again with OTA	15:07
erani	oh well, the portraid media player was a bug anyways... managed to enjoy 1min of it =)	15:07
Scelt	memory full I mean	15:07
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Shapeshifter	mhhhhh. something is wrong with the n900's grep. This: should print the line: echo "asdf lol bar" \| grep -F "$(echo 'foo'; echo 'bar')" but it doesn't.	15:07
PontusOhman	The question is now: How to update if you can't update thru the phone because you need Winbl0at =/ And no flasher file is out yet :(	15:07
Shapeshifter	so grep -F is broken.	15:07
lardman	sivang: sudo sysctl vm.vdso_enabled=0	15:07
lardman	iirc	15:07
nidO	PontusOhman: free root space, remove conflicting software	15:08
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toggles	anyone know if they fixed the swap issue?	15:09
Scelt	erani: how much free on root fs? I have 65 MB	15:09
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: busybox tools are not gnu	15:09
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: messybox grep	15:10
Shapeshifter	ah right.	15:10
tybollt	Ok	15:10
tybollt	so 1.3 is there on my device	15:10
DocScrutinizer51	~messybox	15:10
infobot	messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils	15:10
tybollt	I'm a wee bit dsimayed there are no pink dancing unicorns or anything... nokia - you could've done so much better :(	15:11
Khertan	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php <-- still not available	15:11
Shapeshifter	mhh. where did bash get installed, even?	15:11
Shapeshifter	I have it installed but /bin/bash is busybox	15:11
MohammadAG51	LOL	15:11
PontusOhman	nidO: > The darn update manager tells me to plug my phone into a Winbl0at PC using Nokia PC Suite O_O	15:11
Khertan	PontusOhman, :)	15:11
DocScrutinizer51	ll	15:12
PontusOhman	That's epic Fail	15:12
nidO	PontusOhman: yep, means you either have too little rootfs space, or a conflicting package	15:12
DocScrutinizer51	lol even	15:12
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nidO	2 of which were identified here a little while ago	15:12
nidO	have you checked to ensure you have neither installed?	15:12
Scelt	nidO: which ones?	15:12
MohammadAG51	is there a way to suppress the usb dialog?	15:12
tybollt	MohammadAG51++ I'd like that too	15:12
nidO	libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img	15:12
tybollt	</AOL user>	15:12
PontusOhman	it'sthe libqt4 test....	15:13
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DocScrutinizer	USB dialog?	15:13
mece	MohammadAG51, pingelypong	15:13
mece	hey	15:13
MohammadAG51	mass storage/pc suite DocScrutinizer	15:14
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erani	Scelt: how do i check it	15:14
PontusOhman	Ahaa! The Healthcheck was the enemy :p	15:14
DocScrutinizer	modprobe -r g_nokia, someting along that line?	15:14
Khertan	MohammadAG51, remove the module :)	15:14
Scelt	erani: df -h in terminal for example	15:15
tybollt	ie the FUCKING annoying dialog that always pops up when you least need/want it :)	15:15
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, i need g_nokia	15:15
Scelt	erani: df -h \| grep -i rootfs	15:15
Khertan	MohammadAG51, are you sure ?	15:15
mece	new versions of qt mobility it seems too. nice.	15:15
MohammadAG51	hmm	15:16
visz	is there an app to copy clipboard content from n900 to desktop pc (linux)?	15:16
erani	Scelt: 84mb free	15:16
MohammadAG51	actually	15:16
Scelt	erani: ok, thx	15:16
visz	or should i do some xsel magic?	15:16
MohammadAG51	no, i don't need it	15:16
MohammadAG51	it's actually removed	15:16
Scelt	I try to remove libqt4-test first	15:16
visz	would be useful for barcode purposes	15:16
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Khertan	MohammadAG51, i ve a conflict with the hildon-desktop package you have made	15:17
Khertan	MohammadAG51, and pr1.3 any idea on how to remove it ? :)	15:17
sivang	anyone else have trouble upgrading Scratchbox?	15:17
mece	Khertan, reinstall original from repos	15:17
MohammadAG51	hmm	15:18
PontusOhman	BBL :)	15:18
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MohammadAG51	mece, right, but what's the version number :P	15:18
mece	doh..	15:18
mece	wait I'll check	15:18
Khertan	it s on the nokia repository ... cannot browse it	15:18
Khertan	403	15:18
Khertan	grrr	15:18
mece	hildon-desktop2.2.140-1+0m5	15:19
mece	I believe	15:19
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MohammadAG51	1:2.2.138-1+0m5	15:19
MohammadAG51	apt-get install hildon-desktop=1:2.2.138-1+0m5 Khertan	15:19
mece	oh.. ok then	15:19
mece	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/h/hildon-desktop/ here is .140	15:20
mece	you need a backslash before the + btw.	15:20
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DocScrutinizer	hehe, pr1.3? nevermind, I did apt-get remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr, so seems it doesn't pester me :-P	15:20
Shapeshifter	but wait. dpkg -L bash3 tells me /bin/bash is bash, yet grep -F is still broken in that bash.	15:21
Khertan	hildon-desktop is already the newest version.	15:21
Khertan	lol	15:21
SpeedEvil	lol	15:21
MohammadAG51	Khertan, --reinstall	15:21
SpeedEvil	grep is not a bash internal	15:21
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MohammadAG51	indeed	15:21
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, install grep-gnu	15:21
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DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	15:21
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: thanks	15:21
Khertan	Reinstallation of hildon-desktop is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.	15:21
Khertan	mouarf	15:22
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: WFM	15:22
MohammadAG51	lol?	15:22
mece	Khertan: try this: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/h/hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop_2.2.138-1+0m5_armel.deb	15:22
Khertan	it doesn't try to download it	15:22
mece	dpkg -i	15:22
mece	:)	15:22
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: PATH=/usr/bin/gnu:$PATH	15:22
Khertan	tgx	15:23
Khertan	mece, thx	15:23
Khertan	reinstalled :)	15:23
Khertan	let see if it s works now	15:23
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MohammadAG51	Khertan, maybe you had my package pinned? rm /etc/apt/preferences	15:24
Khertan	already done :)	15:24
Khertan	was pinned	15:24
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Khertan	but i ve remove the pref before asking to you :)	15:25
MohammadAG51	ah	15:25
MohammadAG51	k	15:25
Khertan	roh an other conflict	15:25
Khertan	libqt4-test	15:25
MohammadAG51	dpkg -r it	15:25
MohammadAG51	it conflicts with the leaked image	15:25
MohammadAG51	actually, it no longer does...	15:26
MohammadAG51	weird	15:26
Khertan	it does	15:26
erani	oh well, the image gallery performance is still a slight disappointment... i usually have a large portion of images with me and it's quite laggy -.o'	15:26
Khertan	i m trying to upgrade ota	15:26
Khertan	with a pr1.2	15:26
MohammadAG51	erani, gtk, sadly	15:26
Khertan	s/with/from	15:26
MohammadAG51	i'm on 1.3 (leaked)	15:27
MohammadAG51	now it installs	15:27
tybollt	MohammadAG51: can haz QT apps? :'(	15:27
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Khertan	arg ... removing libqt4-test will remove python2.5-qt4	15:27
MohammadAG51	Khertan, right, that's the one that conflicts	15:28
erani	wonder if the qt versions will be ported to n900 too when they are ready...	15:28
MohammadAG51	python2.5-qt4	15:28
MohammadAG51	no Qt versions afaik	15:28
MohammadAG51	unless someone makes one	15:28
erani	you mean of the official nokia software?	15:28
alterego	Right, laptop now has ubuntu 10.10 on it ..	15:29
felipec	hmm, so PR1.3 can't be updated OTA?	15:29
erani	felipec: it can	15:29
alterego	Well, it can	15:29
Khertan	felipec, but remove python2.5-qt4 ...	15:29
Shapeshifter	meh, my masterplan has failed	15:29
tybollt	so any idea what specific new featuers 1.3 brings to the table?	15:29
Khertan	tybollt, bug fixes	15:29
tybollt	other than the highly fuzzy "it's faster"	15:29
tybollt	Khertan: shrug... olrit	15:30
tybollt	e	15:30
Shapeshifter	wget -q -O - http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages \| grep "Package: " \| awk '{print $2}' \| /usr/bin/gnu/grep -F "$(dpkg -l \| awk -F ' ' '{print $2}')" was supposed to list all packages installed which are in extras-devel but there's the problem that many packages are in extras-devel but also in extras.	15:30
Shapeshifter	so complicated.	15:30
tybollt	Shapeshifter: There you go, I told ya!	15:30
tybollt	\o/	15:30
Shapeshifter	pacman -Sl community \| grep "$(pacman -Q \| awk '{print $2}')"	15:30
SpeedEvil	remove all packages in extras-devel	15:31
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Flyser__	Hey. is it possible to update to PR 1.3 using Linux (so no nokia suite) and _without_ reflashing the whole thing using nokia flasher?	15:31
felipec	erani: Khertan: ok, I'll try that once this slow backing app finishes	15:31
MohammadAG51	no	15:31
Flyser__	MohammadAG51: was that the answer to my question?	15:32
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MohammadAG51	yes	15:32
Shapeshifter	so, if I have made a backup (which also saves the currently installed apps), and I uninstall some applications now to free some space, and then update the PR, and then restore the backup, all the applications should be reinstalled, right?	15:32
MohammadAG51	:P	15:32
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Flyser__	too bad :-(	15:32
mece	Flyser__: you can update with apt-get or app manager I suppose :)	15:32
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mece	downloading 84Mb... yawn	15:33
mece	perhaps I should have gone wlan before I did this	15:33
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erani	=)	15:34
mece	oh damn, nevermind this is really fast!	15:34
mece	25% done now..	15:34
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Flyser__	mece: does that actually work?	15:34
Shapeshifter	dear I just hope meego wont be as broken as maemo.	15:34
Scelt	Shapeshifter: it won't. Much more broken :-D	15:34
tybollt	Shapeshifter: Well duuuh, it's linux - OF COURSe it'll be...	15:34
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: exactly	15:34
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Khertan	Shapeshifter, there is nothing broken on maemo	15:35
Shapeshifter	tybollt: what's that supposed to mean	15:35
mece	Flyser__, well I'm installing now, we'll see.	15:35
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SpeedEvil	Anyone else in the UK not seeing the update?	15:35
SpeedEvil	Odd.	15:35
Shapeshifter	Khertan: busybox, crippled gnu-tools, totally messed up mounting/partitioning	15:35
Khertan	Shapeshifter, take a look in details to see if there is no package conflict	15:35
Shapeshifter	no man pages by default	15:35
erani	Shapeshifter: what do you mean by "broken os"	15:35
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: me, but I'm not UK	15:35
Khertan	Shapeshifter, one point :)	15:35
tybollt	agreed	15:35
tybollt	the man page bit is a bastard	15:36
Khertan	except for man :)	15:36
SpeedEvil	They are not broken gnu tools.	15:36
SpeedEvil	They are not gnu tools.	15:36
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, any idea when the bin will be out	15:36
Shapeshifter	yeah	15:36
MohammadAG51	man-db-n900 :P	15:36
SpeedEvil	This is the right decision - it will make 99.99% of users experience better.	15:36
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SpeedEvil	As the busybox tools are lighter-weight and load faster/use less RAM for scripting.	15:37
DocScrutinizer	~messybox	15:37
infobot	messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils	15:37
Shapeshifter	well they could use zsh... :D	15:37
SpeedEvil	the issue is not zsh or bash or sh	15:37
Shapeshifter	also much faster, more lightweight than bash but complete shell	15:37
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SpeedEvil	It's that grep and shell - for example - are the same binary largely.	15:38
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: No, but that should not be that long.	15:38
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tybollt	Shapeshifter: zsh is that fucker that even tab completes hostnames and shit?	15:38
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, can you remove a package for me	15:38
SpeedEvil	This means that execing busybox grep is _substantially_ faster than forking a truly seperate process.	15:38
Shapeshifter	tybollt: hostnames? well I guess that is doable but it doesn't do that by default. Do you know bash-completion?	15:38
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: Sure.	15:38
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: yeah but it's no use that it's faster if it's broken.	15:38
tybollt	Shapeshifter: sure do - not all the intrinsics but yeah...	15:39
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, someone was here in #maemo and they removed my whole maemo.org packages page	15:39
DocScrutinizer	the only ``issue'' is the fubar initscripts relying on busyboxisms	15:39
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: But it's not broken for 99.99% of users.	15:39
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SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: and the .01% should just install gnu tools.	15:39
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: ??	15:39
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, psfreedom non-free	15:39
MohammadAG51	keep the free version	15:39
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raimo	why can't I install pr 1.3 over wlan? it asks me to update via pc suite, but apparently pc suite doesn't support n900 ?	15:40
DocScrutinizer	which part of ~messybox did you ignore?	15:40
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Shapeshifter	X-Fade: oh, btw, could you please remove this package? http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemoreactor/ I've written you an email and asked in here before but I guess you didn't notice.	15:40
raimo	have anyone managed to install the pr 1.3 update?	15:40
Scelt	erani	15:41
DocScrutinizer	messybox is neither broken nor "not broken for 99.99%" - it's just not an interactive shell	15:41
erani	Scelt:	15:41
mece	LOL wife called and exactly as the dialer appeared the installation set phone to offline mode.	15:41
maybeWork	so uhm... is there any kind of changelog for that 80mb update thingy?	15:41
Scelt	erani: 15:40:53 < raimo> have anyone managed to install the pr 1.3 update?	15:41
erani	oh :P	15:42
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: Hmm I must have really missed that.	15:42
Scelt	mece: something to talk about at home	15:42
X-Fade	Shapeshifter: Every version from every repo?	15:42
Shapeshifter	X-Fade: yes, that package is completely deprecated in favour of "reaction face-off"	15:42
raimo	maybeWork: bug+performance updates and ovi services support is what I've heard	15:42
th3hate_rx51	is it safe to delete /usr/lib/locale/"locale-archive" from rootfs, if i'm satisfied with english only?	15:43
raimo	erani: so you got it installed? how did you do it? It won't install it over-the-air for me	15:43
Shapeshifter	X-Fade: thanks	15:43
erani	raimo: OTA via WLAN @ App manager	15:43
Scelt	raimo: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img	15:43
raimo	Scelt: ?	15:43
Scelt	raimo: those packages need to be removed in order to install OTA	15:43
raimo	ah okay	15:44
Scelt	at least worked for me	15:44
Flyser__	erani: without nokia pc suite?	15:44
erani	Flyser__: yeah	15:44
chem\|st	&%§)(*'"42"$(/ bootcycling after upgrade to PR1.3... flashing again wtf	15:44
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: o.O	15:44
chem\|st	raimo: yes it installed and settings and browser were missing so I restarted into bootcycle	15:45
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chem\|st	raimo: if you are missing enough free space it asks you to upgrade via suite	15:45
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: had that with 1.2 and now with 1.3...	15:46
raimo	chem\|st: okay, thanks	15:46
MohammadAG51	enable r&d mode?	15:46
* DocScrutinizer wonders why tmo is MIA, lol MUAHAHAHAAA		15:46
felipec	anybody knows how to query for orphan packages?	15:46
raimo	would've helped if it would've actually told me that.. :]	15:46
Flyser__	how much free space is needed?	15:46
phryk	the application manager tells me that for the current update i need the nokia pc suite	15:46
phryk	which apparently only exists for windows??	15:47
erani	Flyser__: no idea, but I had 84mb of rootfs mem and it installed	15:47
chem\|st	Flyser__: 80Mb	15:47
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Flyser__	ok	15:47
raimo	phryk: [15:45] < chem\|st> \| raimo: if you are missing enough free space it asks you to upgrade via suite	15:47
Scelt	nope	15:47
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chem\|st	erani: it is not rootfs I guess	15:47
phryk	ah okay	15:47
Scelt	Flyser__: I have 65 Mt and lets me to go for OTA instead of pc suite	15:47
erani	oh	15:47
Flyser__	I have exactly 80.4MB and it wont install	15:47
chem\|st	it installed with 66MB free / at mine	15:47
mece	Flyser__, it's a conflicting package	15:47
Flyser__	lets delete some stuff :)	15:47
erani	Flyser__: have you removed those packages Scelt mentioned	15:47
erani	yeah :P	15:47
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phryk	where is the apt-cache again?	15:48
Scelt	Flyser__: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img	15:48
RST38h	heya javispedro	15:48
DocScrutinizer	hi javispedro	15:48
mece	phryk, it's not in / anymore	15:48
Flyser__	Scelt: no. is it safe to do so?	15:48
chem\|st	phryk: I guess in /home/user somewhere isnt it?	15:48
Shapeshifter	oh wow, this script is golden http://www.robinhill.me.uk/downloads/pkgsize.py	15:48
javispedro	morning	15:48
sivang	Scelt: yes restriticions for OTA somewhat relaxed or what?	15:48
sivang	same here	15:48
Scelt	Flyser__: I had to remove few apps with those packages but nothing important	15:49
Shapeshifter	git-core isn't optified and used up 14.4mb on rootfs :\|	15:49
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: joining in monday-1.3-madness ? :-)	15:49
MohammadAG51	javispedro, have a nice cup of pr1.3	15:49
Scelt	sivang: seems so	15:49
javispedro	too bad	15:49
raimo	I take it PakageView should see those packages ? it shows absolutely nothing for me	15:49
javispedro	PR1.3 release has slashdotted tmo	15:49
javispedro	which means I won't get engadget'd for preenv =)	15:49
chem\|st	now flashed 1.2 reinstated settings only and upgrade to 1.3 (again)	15:49
Scelt	raimo: to terminal, root and then dpkg -l \| grep libgles	15:50
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mece	wow this updating is not super fast...	15:50
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, removed psfreedom from non-free?	15:50
mece	downloading went in a jiffy but the updating is going slooooow	15:50
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: yes.	15:50
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felipec	Shapeshifter: how about this? dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size;10}\t${Package}\n' \| sort -k1,1n	15:51
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG51: btw, not sure if there was a problem with psfreedom itself but this morning there was an update of psfreedom and I let it install and went away and when I came back the n900 wouldn't come back from sleep and I had to remove the battery	15:52
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erani	oh, just found a strange bug of the 1.3... when you open the app menu from desktop and browse to the bottom of the list and a bit outside of it (where it should bounce back the icons) it just jams and tick by tick gets back to normal	15:52
foxfell	Hi all. Who tried to run nokia pc suite uneder wine?	15:52
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: why Nokia broke the traditional scheme of releasing on Friday, when next Monday is holiday and everybody off for a week?	15:52
DocScrutinizer	:-)	15:52
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Shapeshifter	felipec: nice. doesn't show space used exclusively on rootfs, though	15:52
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: I guess because that got delayed? ;)	15:52
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Oli```	foxfell: Not worth it. Virtualbox is the only way to run it on a Linux machine.	15:53
javispedro	so, is tablets-dev keeping up? Or I should not even try? :)	15:53
foxfell	Oli```: no alternatives?	15:53
chem\|st	javispedro: nope	15:53
chem\|st	javispedro: still 1.2	15:53
Oli```	foxfell: not really, no	15:54
chem\|st	thats why I just flashed 1.2 and upgraded to 1.3	15:54
DocScrutinizer	foxfell: who would need that crap on linux anyway?	15:54
Oli```	foxfell: if you're just flashing, you can flash from Linux IIRC	15:54
felipec	foxfell: Oli```: it probably can't work through a virtual system	15:54
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Oli```	felipec: it does	15:54
felipec	foxfell: Oli```: of course there is... use flasher	15:54
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foxfell	tnx guys	15:55
ebzzry	Hi! Is there a way to invoke the "back" button in windows programatically?	15:55
MohammadAG51	Shapeshifter, can't see how it can be related :)	15:55
DocScrutinizer	~flashing	15:55
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	15:55
javispedro	give me back tmo!	15:55
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MohammadAG51	X-Fade, thanks, can you refresh the description?	15:55
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: :-P	15:55
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-25 14:46:29] * DocScrutinizer wonders why tmo is MIA, lol MUAHAHAHAAA	15:56
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: Will get updated automatically.	15:56
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, description too? it wasn't updated when i updated the package	15:56
foxfell	Flashing the rootfs on your N900 will reset the device back to factory settings. sounds bad	15:56
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: abstinence syndrome!	15:56
MohammadAG51	foxfell, no	15:57
sivang	DocScrutinizer: missing in action? what happened to it?	15:57
MohammadAG51	flashing the eMMC will	15:57
raimo	I wonder if using third party application manager like the Faster App Manager for pr update is doomed to fail?	15:58
* sivang wonders how flasher detects which is the eMMC, extended storage, SD etc		15:58
DocScrutinizer	sivang: nobody knows. History will show where and why it got lost in famous battle of 1.3	15:58
raimo	because it started updating without any complains.. :]	15:58
sivang	DocScrutinizer: HAHAHA	15:58
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sivang	I did see flasher is rather wise about that-	15:58
sivang	knowing what not to destry	15:58
sivang	which is nice	15:58
Oli```	foxfell: Updating by flashing is still pretty abrasive. It knocks out anything installed. You'd probably do better to wait for the OTA update.	15:58
sivang	Oli```: not so much	15:59
felipec	foxfell: that's what the Nokia PC would do, AFAIK	15:59
maybeWTF	nothing wrong with a bit torched earth now and then	15:59
felipec	foxfell: that's why you need to backup	15:59
Oli```	sivang: that's my experience of it	15:59
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sivang	Oli```: you upgrade, you move away to a different storage, you flash, restore everything and viola	15:59
felipec	foxfell: of course you could try to free space so that OTA works	15:59
sivang	Oli```: was a breeze for me, even better than OTA	15:59
sivang	but yes, I'd hate to say-	15:59
sivang	YMMV	15:59
Oli```	indeed	15:59
sivang	I did remove stuff that was not neccessary	15:59
sivang	e.g. every package that I decided I don't use anymore- got purged	16:00
sivang	and then reflashed	16:00
Oli```	That said, if you're drowning in clutter, a reflash is a good way to get back to a nice sane set of defaults. Just make sure you backup anything you might want.	16:00
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Shapeshifter	so, how would I be able to find out which package conflicts with the PR update?	16:01
Khertan	Shapeshifter, in the update screen	16:01
Khertan	in ham	16:01
Khertan	click on Maemo Update	16:01
Khertan	then details	16:01
Shapeshifter	Khertan: thanks!	16:02
Khertan	2 or 3 notebook you will see the details	16:02
mece	update with appmanager walked flawlessly.	16:02
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Khertan	Shapeshifter, for me it was libqt4-test, and a package that replace hildon-desktop :)	16:02
chem\|st	mece: grats	16:03
* Oli``` wishes his OTA update would show up		16:03
sivang	Oli```: I actually regret storing the settings, yes	16:03
DocScrutinizer	Khertan: WTF is the wiki page summarizing all that?	16:03
mece	the slowness of the uk release again. annoying.	16:03
sivang	Oli```: since it brought me back to clutter of tweakui and other things	16:03
sivang	Oli```: should have just restored everything else	16:03
sivang	DocScrutinizer: the wiki page summerziing the update and the changeset?	16:03
rmrfchik	emmmm... what are you do updating?	16:03
Khertan	DocScrutinizer, the wiki ?	16:04
mece	I needed to dpkg -i this file: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/h/hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop_2.2.138-1+0m5_armel.deb after that it was smooth sailing.	16:04
Khertan	DocScrutinizer, don't know ... was down	16:04
DocScrutinizer	and conflicting pkg and 42, yes	16:04
sivang	heh	16:04
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mece	anyway I'm off. ta.	16:04
maybeWTF	starting the update with power bar at 1/3rd = good idea c/d?	16:04
sivang	DocScrutinizer: I'm surprised as well. this seems the most discrete upgrade ever in free software ? :)	16:04
sivang	maybeWTF: it will tell you if it has enough battery	16:04
sivang	maybeWTF: told me to plug to waller	16:04
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mece	same here. used usb cable though. worked fine. took about 15 minutes to upgrade.	16:05
maybeWTF	hehe, nice	16:05
mece	seriouslt though. I'm off.	16:05
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raimo	I just used Faster Application Manager to OTA update and it seemed to go through just fine	16:06
raimo	although the nokia application manager wouldn't run it	16:06
sivang	heh	16:06
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: honestly, wouldn't it be more sane to first publish the fiasco img and changelog and stuff, then a day later enable the SSU?	16:06
rmrfchik	well, sorry if it was answered. is apt-get upgrade safe for 1.3?	16:06
sivang	"its complicated"	16:06
javispedro	you should really use the builtin apt manager	16:06
sivang	between HAM and FAPMAN	16:06
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Yes	16:06
javispedro	it does more stuff that a plain apt-get upgrade	16:07
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sivang	javispedro++	16:07
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rmrfchik	javispedro: hmm, for example?	16:07
DocScrutinizer	rmrfchik: apt-get upgrade is never safe	16:07
javispedro	rmrfchik: including but not limited to "tuning" compression ratos for the ubifs	16:07
rmrfchik	DocScrutinizer: hmm. you ruine my world.	16:07
sivang	javispedro: oh dear	16:07
sivang	javispedro: that is something out of this world, I was nto aware.	16:07
rmrfchik	javispedro: ok, thanks	16:07
flux	apt-get upgrade is safe in a way that you can always reflash the device?-)	16:07
sivang	javispedro: how did you find out it does that?	16:07
javispedro	sivang: iirc since pr1.2	16:07
sivang	javispedro: from changelog?	16:08
rmrfchik	t.m.o is down? ;)	16:08
javispedro	sivang: sorry, mxr doesn't not yet index pr1.2 code seems, get hildon-application-manager src pkg	16:08
alterego	How popular can t.m.o be ..	16:08
alterego	It's been down for about 6 hours now.	16:08
Khertan	flux, not really ... image isn't available yet :)	16:08
DocScrutinizer	flux: beating the brick wall is alway safe as you can recover by healing your bones :-P	16:08
Shapeshifter	alterego: "I updated to PR1.3 and now everything is broken"	16:08
X-Fade	alterego: Wait for reggie to wake up ;)	16:08
alterego	Heh	16:08
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flux	khertan, well, you can upgrade the previous version, you're not (much) worse off than what you started with :)	16:08
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Khertan	flux ... hum ... true	16:09
alterego	Shapeshifter: "PR1.3 ruined my life, now I can't rant about how awful it is on t.m.o NOKIA cens0rs!"	16:09
sivang	javispedro: k, thanks for the tip	16:09
DocScrutinizer	alterego: it's not down, it's just MIA	16:09
alterego	Heh	16:09
DocScrutinizer	alterego: aka lemmings running a DDoS	16:09
javispedro	yea, with enough patience you can still reach it	16:09
javispedro	(contributing to the slashdotting)	16:10
alterego	All those Android fanbois	16:10
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sivang	so 1.3 ruins the installation?	16:10
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javispedro	sivang: found it! http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle12-20100706/source/hildon-application-manager/src/apt-worker.cc#4802	16:10
rmrfchik	and changelog are ...	16:10
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* sivang thanks timeless for mxr		16:10
ElAngelo	that's what i'd like to know too...	16:10
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sivang	javispedro: thanks	16:10
ElAngelo	what do we get in 1.3 ?	16:10
javispedro	nothing	16:11
jaska	a new version number!	16:11
Shapeshifter	ElAngelo: you get 2 hours of caring for your device to make it able to update OTA.	16:11
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* javispedro plans to reflash either way		16:11
javispedro	I think I'm still using pr1.1 modest....	16:11
rmrfchik	PR1.3 -- enlarge your version number!	16:11
Milhouse	bug fixes	16:12
ElAngelo	is Shapeshifter the channel troll now?	16:12
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Milhouse	the changelog has been posted on t.m.o. but nobody can read it.	16:12
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crashanddie	ElAngelo, and you are?	16:12
raimo	okay well the bulid in app manager still shows the maemo update after updating with the faster app manager, but now it allows an OTA update. so I'm running that now :D	16:13
sivang	javispedro: oh that you are in pain, my friend, modest is still not as good as it could be IMHO, but 1.1 was a nightmare	16:13
crashanddie	ElAngelo, because as I recall, Shapeshifter has been around here a heckuvalot longer than you have.	16:13
raimo	I'm supriced if I don't manage to f*ck something up with this..	16:13
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ElAngelo	crashanddie: don't know... just a user	16:13
javispedro	sivang: I had patched it and never bothered to forward port stuff to 1.2 =)	16:13
the_lord	Hi! is there a place where I can see the changelog of PR 1.3 ?	16:13
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GAN900	I love websites with a thousand and one in-window popup ads, advisements and survey requests.	16:13
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ElAngelo	i just scrolled up a couple of lines and saw Shapeshifter trolling all over the channel	16:13
javispedro	GAN900: web 3.0!	16:13
sivang	javispedro: ah, I see	16:14
Stskeeps	did anyone spot 'And there’s even more great news. Ovi Music Store is now accessible right from your N900 (where available). You can use your inbuilt browser to access music.ovi.com and download your favorite tunes straight to your device in DRM-free format.' ?	16:14
* MohammadAG saw it		16:14
javispedro	Stskeeps: wtf	16:14
MohammadAG	couldn't care less	16:14
alterego	Neat	16:14
sivang	Stskeeps: actually that was somewhat known in the sprint already :)	16:14
raimo	does that meant it's free?	16:14
GAN900	Stskeeps, shill. :P	16:14
MohammadAG	raimo, no, it means it's DRM-free	16:14
sivang	Stskeeps: one of the reasons for me to upgrade as well	16:14
raimo	right	16:14
crashanddie	ElAngelo, sorry, you must have some foo I don't, I've not seen Shapeshifter troll anyone.	16:14
Stskeeps	i could reason with DRM-free music and paying for it.	16:15
Stskeeps	DRM'ed music, fuck no	16:15
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crashanddie	I want lossless encoding on music I pay for	16:15
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: so drop that idea of security framework!	16:15
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: There's a such?	16:16
ElAngelo	then i misunderstood the quotes	16:16
crashanddie	ElAngelo, it would appear so indeed.	16:16
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erani	Stskeeps: yeah... I buy all of my music there so that was a nice upgrade :)	16:16
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hrw	~pr1.3	16:17
infobot	LALALALALALALALALAAAAAA	16:17
javispedro	I would be happy about such a thing	16:17
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hrw	;D	16:17
crashanddie	~factinfo pr1.3	16:17
infobot	pr1.3 -- created by noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-178-53-101.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> at Tue May 25 07:13:59 2010 (153 days); last modified 1h 30m 44s ago by DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 45 times, last by hrw, 27s ago.	16:17
javispedro	gives me good vibes about "open mode" kernel in harmattan security framework	16:17
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erani	it was literally as painful as shooting my own leg when I bought a 20 song collection album and I had to tap the download icon one by one at each song, wait for the page to refrest etc...	16:17
sivang	javispedro: feels like a hack, is thee no lib for playing with mount?	16:18
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, somehow, I knew it could only be you :P	16:18
sivang	javispedro: re http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle12-20100706/source/hildon-application-manager/src/apt-worker.cc#4802	16:18
erani	refresh*	16:18
javispedro	sivang: well, there's this "mount" syscall ;)	16:18
sivang	javispedro: but it was not used :-PP	16:18
MohammadAG	~pr1.2	16:18
infobot	[pr1.2] available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update	16:18
MohammadAG	~forget pr1.3	16:19
infobot	i forgot pr1.3, MohammadAG	16:19
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: best most precise and accurate info I could offer to infobot	16:19
sivang	MohammadAG: dangerous to the device?	16:19
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sivang	javispedro: execing commands like mount scares me...	16:19
MohammadAG	sivang, huh?!	16:19
sivang	javispedro: from a c program	16:19
sivang	MohammadAG: you made infobot forget 1.3	16:19
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crashanddie	sivang, you know what's really scary? Calling rm -rf from a perl script.	16:20
javispedro	sivang: well.. the entire thing already runs on root, what could go wrong? ;)	16:20
crashanddie	you never know what that / might turn into	16:20
sivang	javispedro: HA HA HA HA	16:20
* javispedro notes that until recently, ALL, ALL, EACH and EVERY program on the Palm Pre ran as the root user		16:20
MohammadAG	~pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update	16:20
infobot	...but pr1.3 is already something else...	16:20
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MohammadAG	~forget pr1.3	16:20
infobot	i forgot pr1.3, MohammadAG	16:20
MohammadAG	~pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update	16:20
infobot	okay, MohammadAG	16:20
javispedro	MohammadAG: pm with infobot instead of such noises	16:21
Khertan	~flashing	16:21
infobot	well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	16:21
MohammadAG	javispedro, <infobot> Stop abusing forget!	16:21
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rmrfchik	well, app manager dont want to upgrade system. it wan ovi suite to do it	16:21
crashanddie	~no, pr1.3 is is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday 25th October 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update	16:21
Arkenoi	i bet OTA won't pass again	16:21
Khertan	rmrfchik, conflick package ... go to details and remove conflicting package	16:21
javispedro	no wonder	16:21
rmrfchik	Arkenoi: chmoke	16:21
crashanddie	MohammadAG, please don't insult us by using american date format	16:21
javispedro	everyone here uses extras-devel,	16:21
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crashanddie	javispedro, nope, I don't	16:22
rmrfchik	Khertan: ah.. it may be MohammadAG's fixes :)	16:22
Khertan	i don't too	16:22
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crashanddie	either**	16:22
javispedro	and I counted every time someone uploaded a package breaking SSU there: it's in the hundreds.	16:22
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javispedro	crashanddie: and did OTA work for you?	16:22
MohammadAG	crashanddie, lol it wasn't on purpose, I just copied the date from Ubuntu's top bar	16:22
sivang	crashanddie: hehe	16:22
crashanddie	javispedro, dunno, N900 is with the gf	16:22
MohammadAG	Monday, October 25 2010 <-- is how it's output from the top gnome-panel	16:22
Khertan	rmrfchik, yep MohammadAG fixes and python2.5-qt4	16:22
Khertan	:)	16:22
Arkenoi	actually OTA never worked for anyone with reasonable number of apps installed	16:22
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crashanddie	MohammadAG, then gnome-panel is obviously broken.	16:22
sivang	rmrfchik: that means you need to reflash, fwiw	16:22
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MohammadAG	crashanddie, heh	16:23
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javispedro	Arkenoi: I'm 100% sure it would work here, but that's because I smell apps breaking it from a hundred miles	16:23
rmrfchik	sivang: i will revert modest, pulse and desktop	16:23
Arkenoi	so i do not expect it to work now, either	16:23
rmrfchik	will see	16:23
Khertan	Arkenoi, works for me ... just remove conflicting package	16:23
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visz	oh, now i have PR1.3 at OTA	16:23
javispedro	(unfortunately, and due to sdl-ttf bug, most of my apps also break it... :( )	16:23
sivang	Arkenoi: yes, but I guess this is not something for Maemo to solve already	16:23
MohammadAG	funny, I don't get any updates on the leaked 1.3	16:23
sivang	Arkenoi: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9089	16:23
povbot	Bug 9089: Upgrading Maemo itself (nokia official recommended upgrade) failed with "no enough space" on target device.	16:23
visz	with Sonera Finland	16:23
MohammadAG	meaning the released 1.3 is actually a released testing image?	16:23
Arkenoi	Khertan, ah, yes, and spend a few hours trying to find out which one is to blame and even more cleaning up / space	16:24
X-Fade	javispedro: ttf was changed in pr1.3	16:24
kPb_in_	i just update my n900.. how can i check if its pr 1.3 or not?	16:24
erani	kPb_in_: go to settings -> device information	16:24
nidO	Arkenoi: or just look	16:24
Oli```	Is there a reason I can't see the update in update manager? I'm in the UK on an unlocked, unbranded straight-from-nokia N900.	16:24
Arkenoi	sivang, that's what i expected	16:24
erani	it should be running fw version 20.2010.36-2	16:24
javispedro	X-Fade: everyone who upgraded to borked package will be able to SSU?	16:24
Shapeshifter	"You can now enter a lowercase letter at the beginning of a sentence." is my favourite bugfix for 1.3	16:24
Khertan	Arkenoi, it take me 10min	16:25
alterego	kPb_in_: in the settings application goto about product and the version should say 20.2010.36-2	16:25
chem\|st	Oli```: nope	16:25
MohammadAG	javispedro, no, but they will be able to downgrade to the old one	16:25
Khertan	just read the detail in the update	16:25
javispedro	X-Fade: or -- more like everyone who upgraded to it will NOT be able to? :)	16:25
Khertan	:)	16:25
kPb_in_	erani, u meant About product?	16:25
chem\|st	Shapeshifter: **	16:25
erani	kPb_in_: err, yes :P	16:25
javispedro	X-Fade: (not blaming you ofc)	16:25
Arkenoi	still flash 9, i guess?	16:25
kPb_in_	erani, alterego cool thanx :)	16:25
Oli```	chem\|st: so I should be able to see it?	16:25
Scelt	Shapeshifter: where's the changelog?	16:25
RST38h	Mohammad: I have got your SSU installed (no PR1.3 yet). Anything I should know about?	16:25
javispedro	MohammadAG: not until -devel is rebuilt!	16:25
X-Fade	javispedro: No idea, why don't you try it out ;)	16:25
RST38h	\	16:26
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alterego	Can /scratchbox be a symlink?	16:26
javispedro	alterego: it can be a bind mount...	16:26
kPb_in_	PR 1.3 was suppose to bring meego dual boot right?	16:26
alterego	Urgh	16:26
chem\|st	Oli```: I had that problem with 1.2 it showed in the install pages but not in the update page	16:26
Khertan	Shapeshifter, mine is the fix in the QListView scrolling :)	16:26
X-Fade	kPb_in_: No.	16:26
chem\|st	kPb_in_: yes	16:26
crashanddie	Hmm	16:26
MohammadAG	chem\|st, no	16:26
kPb_in_	??	16:26
crashanddie	I just had an email from some headhunter	16:26
visz	kPb_in_, i don't know, but what i read from the blog, it gives the ability to do a dual boot	16:26
DocScrutinizer	alterego: rm -rf /scratchbox, a nice way to kill your system	16:27
Shapeshifter	Khertan: what does it do?	16:27
tybollt	crashanddie: googlers?	16:27
MohammadAG	no no no!	16:27
chem\|st	MohammadAG: thats what they said?!	16:27
crashanddie	tybollt, dunno	16:27
raimo	looks like my way of first updating with Faster Application Manager and then with the build in one worked :p	16:27
* tybollt was headhunted for the current job...		16:27
MohammadAG	PR1.3 brings kexec patches to the kernel by default	16:27
raimo	although it didn't allow me to update with the build in one first	16:27
raimo	I had like 68Mt free	16:27
crashanddie	tybollt, the guy is basically telling me off for them having _my_ CV in _their_ records, and that I'm not fit for the job.	16:27
Khertan	Shapeshifter, the viewport didn't remember well is original position	16:27
MohammadAG	it doesn't allow dual booting without a boot menu	16:27
Khertan	Shapeshifter, it s fixed in qt4.7 :)	16:27
erani	umm, is ovi store working for you guys? I can't click on anything on the store site after opening it from main menu	16:27
chem\|st	MohammadAG: ah well	16:27
Khertan	crashanddie, as usual	16:27
Shapeshifter	Scelt: couldn't find a changelog but apparently there's one on tmo but google hasn't cached it yet (or I couldn't find the cached version). Just hear-say from some random maemo page	16:27
tybollt	crashanddie: uhm... did you even apply for it..?	16:27
MohammadAG	Khertan, check QTextBrowser in 4.7	16:28
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: BS, nigerian 2.0	16:28
chem\|st	MohammadAG: keep sorting nuts for size pls	16:28
Scelt	Shapeshifter: okay	16:28
crashanddie	tybollt, hint, I never applied. I sent him a response explaining I didn't apply for anything, and he responded by saying "Please stop wasting my time"	16:28
Khertan	MohammadAG, :)	16:28
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crashanddie	tosser.	16:28
chem\|st	crashanddie: behave!	16:28
MohammadAG	Khertan, I think it's broken :P	16:28
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, no no, the company is legit, and so are the phone numbers.	16:28
tybollt	crashanddie: that's when you are to reply by means of dead cats in his mail or some such ;)	16:28
DocScrutinizer	so spam their phone	16:28
Khertan	crashanddie, most of time if i ve free time ... i wait for a meeting	16:28
Khertan	to insult them :)	16:28
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Khertan	it s more funny	16:29
Khertan	:)	16:29
tybollt	crashanddie: anyway that was alarmingly retarded of that bloke... :-/	16:29
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RST38h	not unusual though	16:30
Khertan	Youhou ... Khweeteur Scrolling bug magically fixed by Qt4.7	16:30
Khertan	:)	16:30
tybollt	RST38h: Really? I've only ever really had ... positive exeperience of the head hunters...	16:31
rmrfchik	hehehe, it was /etc/apt/preferences with pinned modest	16:31
tybollt	I may be the odd one out	16:31
Khertan	RST38h, usual in france	16:31
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rmrfchik	remove preferences before upgrading	16:31
tybollt	Khertan: A rude frenchman? YOU DON'T SAY!?!?!	16:32
* sivang boogles at freeswitch not passing and inbound call		16:32
sivang	tybollt: hehe	16:32
Khertan	got the same experience ten or twenty time	16:32
DocScrutinizer	rmrfchik: thou shalt not play with pins!	16:32
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auenf	err, maemo update?	16:32
sivang	auenf: so it seems	16:32
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: Needles however... ;)	16:32
rmrfchik	DocScrutinizer: blame MohammadAG!	16:32
rmrfchik	;)	16:32
erani	oh well... it seems that after the update ovi store website doesn't work correctly for half of the time -.-	16:32
tybollt	rmrfchik: We all do...	16:32
auenf	1.3, or something minor?	16:32
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DocScrutinizer	I'm blaming MohammadAG since a week, for not building my kernel	16:33
rmrfchik	it hope it will not format my home partition	16:33
hawaii_	Why would it?	16:34
rmrfchik	I'm blaming MohammadAG for bad weather here	16:34
Khertan	number look like the same as the leaked firmware	16:34
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rmrfchik	hawaii_: dunno. I expect all from nokia	16:34
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hawaii_	Right.	16:34
auenf	hmm, update claims to be 20.2010.36-2	16:34
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: can I join this facebook club?	16:34
DocScrutinizer	nfc	16:35
DocScrutinizer	wtf is facebook?	16:35
rmrfchik	DocScrutinizer: do u know /facepalm?	16:35
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rmrfchik	it's the same, but with books	16:36
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: Facebook is the opposite of Orwell's 1984' "Memory Hole"	16:36
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auenf	facebook is where only part-time computer users go to play flash games	16:36
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DocScrutinizer	watch the doc to lrn2troll	16:36
javispedro	auenf: and full-time, from watching students's monitors =)	16:37
DocScrutinizer	rmrfchik: wouldn't be bricks much more effective?	16:37
DocScrutinizer	than books	16:37
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chem\|st	auenf: where do fulltime computer geeks play flash games?	16:37
auenf	javispedro, students dont have anything else to do but play facebook games it seems	16:37
seba_	quick question. I updated some qt mobility libraries (after removing libqt4-xxx), I see update available from apt-get but nothing in app manager. Should I use apt-get or just wait more?	16:38
auenf	chem\|st, on their N900's	16:38
chem\|st	auenf: true	16:38
Arkenoi	well, i have 20mb free on /, i guess i should not even bother to try OTA, as expected :-/	16:38
chem\|st	auenf: I got no flash games...	16:38
Shapeshifter	auenf: what is much more disturbing is that so many developers seem to have nothing better to do than write facebook games	16:38
dolp	so how does the maemo/meego dualboot system work?	16:38
auenf	but they dont limit themselves facebook games, they actually play real games	16:38
Stskeeps	dolp: it shows an interactive flash demo and people can't tell the difference.	16:39
l0up_	ahh, uninstalled libgles1-sgx-img and got OTA update working..	16:39
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chem\|st	dolp: with a bootloader	16:39
auenf	hmm, 0:37	16:39
Shapeshifter	l0up_: was the same for me. it killed off a couple of games	16:39
auenf	thats not a good time to start installing a maemo update	16:39
auenf	will sleep instead	16:39
rmrfchik	Arkenoi: just uninstall shit and clean root	16:39
chem\|st	Arkenoi: try it depends on other space than /	16:39
rmrfchik	rootfs 227.9M 199.9M 23.8M 89% /	16:40
rmrfchik	this is _during_ installation	16:40
jacekowski	N9 looks nice	16:40
MohammadAG	jacekowski, ?	16:40
chem\|st	jacekowski: subjective...	16:40
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: poor trolling	16:40
seba_	is apt-get update the right way? ... anyone?	16:40
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jacekowski	there is a video on youtube	16:41
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: ?	16:41
Stskeeps	dolp: technically we don't really require pr1.3 for it..	16:41
Myrtti	jacekowski: an official Nokia video?	16:41
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jacekowski	no	16:41
rmrfchik	seba_: I do	16:41
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Stskeeps	dolp: we'll be using u-boot	16:41
rmrfchik	seba_: more over, upgrading is on the way	16:41
jacekowski	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVznicTiUOI	16:41
DocScrutinizer	dolp: boot chainload	16:41
oshin	can I update pr1.3 without windows?	16:41
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jacekowski	oshin: yes	16:41
oshin	it says something about nokia suite	16:41
oshin	ok	16:41
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DocScrutinizer	dolp: unrelated to pr1.3	16:42
oshin	thanks.	16:42
DocScrutinizer	completely	16:42
erani	err, jacekowski isn't that just e7...	16:42
sivang	so anything on the positive side for today? :)	16:42
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dos1	Nokia PC Suite message should be placed in topic I think ;)	16:42
* javispedro wonders what happened to those days where the question was "can I update to XXX with windows?"		16:42
sivang	besides TMO missing in action, pr1.3 issues etc	16:42
seba_	rmrfchik, thanks. will go with that then.	16:42
sivang	javispedro: heh	16:42
MohammadAG	jacekowski, E7, meh	16:42
Myrtti	oh jebus, his speech makes my teeth grate	16:43
rmrfchik	seba_: I was said to use app manager for upgrade. And I followed advise	16:43
oshin	hehe	16:43
seba_	mh	16:43
hrw	so how much space in rootfs is needed for upgrade?	16:43
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DocScrutinizer	prolly 47M as usual :-P	16:44
petteri	oshin: for me helped to remove these packages: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img . Before that it would not upgrade	16:44
auenf	yup, all the 'n9' stuff that was previewed (that all still had symbian ui) is just the E7	16:44
* GAN900 is sorely tempted by a MacBook Air.		16:44
seba_	I wonder why nothing come up in app manager while apt-get shows 66mb of available archives	16:44
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chem\|st	seba_: dont install!	16:44
oshin	petteri, ok, thanks a lot.	16:44
Arkenoi	As expected, it wants me to flash via USB :-/	16:45
alterego	GAN900: NOOOOOO!!!!!	16:45
javispedro	GAN900: the very same GAN-the-netbook-hater is interested in Apple's Netbook offerings? =)	16:45
hrw	DocScrutinizer: thx	16:45
chem\|st	it is about 80 and as ussual it will break because of the missing 25mb	16:45
auenf	need to flash via usb cause not enough rootfs?	16:45
sivang	auenf: what's E7?	16:45
sivang	gpd: don't go THERE!!!	16:45
hrw	41M free - time to regain space	16:45
sivang	oops	16:45
erani	http://kuvaton.com/browse/15985/mac3.jpg :P	16:45
Arkenoi	AS EXPECTED, there is no further diagnostics.	16:45
sivang	that was	16:45
auenf	symbian^3	16:45
auenf	http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-e7	16:45
auenf	n8 with a keyboard essentially	16:46
sivang	GAN900: don't go there!! We must fight the temptation!	16:46
sivang	auenf: I ee	16:46
sivang	or should I say, I eee	16:46
hawaii_	Er, not really.	16:46
javispedro	erani: lol	16:46
hawaii_	It has the same "build" as the N8.	16:46
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MohammadAG	btw	16:46
MohammadAG	why isn't /var/lib/dpkg optified?	16:47
MohammadAG	it gets huge	16:47
hawaii_	It has an EDoF camera, and drops microsd, however.	16:47
auenf	far too many phone buyers buy on design of the phone only ;)	16:47
hawaii_	It feels great.	16:47
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hawaii_	But the nHD resolution kills it, IMHO.	16:47
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: because HAM is moving it dynamically to MyDocs?	16:47
rmrfchik	oj, kernel is updating... my overclocks!!!	16:47
sivang	MohammadAG: good question	16:47
GAN900	javispedro, netbook hater?	16:48
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, impossible	16:48
* GAN900 currently owns a Mini 9.		16:48
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, that	16:48
sivang	DocScrutinizer: oh	16:48
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MohammadAG	that's /var/lib/apt	16:48
MohammadAG	/var/lib/dpkg is NOT optified	16:48
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sivang	GAN900: stick to it, don't help Apple ales	16:48
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: wild guess, nothing more	16:48
sivang	GAN900: *sales	16:48
erani	i own an eeepc 1000h w 10.10 right now, but my personal opinion would be that I'd never buy a thousand-dollar mini-pc...	16:48
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erani	mini-mac*	16:48
GAN900	I'd like something that can handle RAW, though.	16:48
sivang	GAN900: LG T380 UV	16:49
* rmrfchik uses eee 901. it's just a magic with my debian		16:49
sivang	GAN900: great machine, apart for very screwed up keyboard.	16:49
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rmrfchik	but it so suck in c++ for n900 development :(	16:49
GAN900	sivang, you'll be very disappointed by my Mac Pro, then. :P	16:49
sivang	GAN900: once I get meego onboard it, it will be even better	16:49
sivang	GAN900: oh:/	16:49
GAN900	sivang, screwed up keyboard is a non-starter.	16:49
tybollt	GAN900: which one? The new thin one?	16:50
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sivang	GAN900: well, I have a hunch it is ubuntu's too obtrusive throttling or something, so need to test with meego	16:50
alterego	herm, scratchbox hathor does not have svn devkit packages :/	16:50
rmrfchik	well.. seems like it was updated OK. at least, it asked me pin	16:50
sivang	GAN900: I was able to build Qt 4.7 on it in 4 hours, including everything. Not bad for a netbook no?	16:50
javispedro	GAN900:didn't you something alone the lines of "a tablet/nit for mobile stuff, a laptop/workstation for big stuff"?	16:51
javispedro	*say	16:51
sivang	alterego: were you able to upgrade your 1.2 sb?	16:51
sivang	alterego: it completely brok emine	16:51
javispedro	alterego: grab apophis devkits, they work	16:51
javispedro	sivang: what you mean? I use hathor sb since it was released	16:51
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alterego	sivang: luckily I'm actually just reinstalling my laptop.	16:51
alterego	:D	16:52
GAN900	javispedro, I'm now needing something that can handle 18MP photos on the road, though.	16:52
javispedro	aha!	16:52
auenf	better get an alienware then	16:52
RST38h	GAN: A camera maybe? =)	16:52
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tybollt	GAN900: thinkpad X201s, core i7, 6GB RAM, SSD, ~1kg. That's what I have :)	16:53
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alterego	It's kind of annoying, I always thought tablets-dev was the first to get updasted.	16:53
* lbt touches "update"		16:53
MohammadAG	holy shit	16:53
MohammadAG	sdk update	16:53
sivang	MohammadAG: broke completely	16:53
* sivang will reinstall Maemo SDK		16:53
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Khertan	ouch ... they slow down scrolling ...	16:54
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* RST38h trembles at the thought of updating SDK+/SB2		16:54
Khertan	in pr1.3	16:54
sivang	that's bad	16:54
lbt	"to update you must use PC suite..." ?	16:54
Khertan	RST38h, do python code no need for sdk and sb2	16:54
sivang	it was already slow in 1.2	16:54
Khertan	lbt, now touch the details	16:54
sivang	lbt: the infamous upgrade bug	16:54
hrw	Khertan: in qt?	16:54
MohammadAG	sivang, how	16:54
Khertan	lbt, and remove the conflicting package you see :)	16:54
dolp	madde update..	16:54
lbt	it just says "backup"	16:54
GAN900	Khertan, how could scrolling get slower. . . .	16:55
Khertan	lbt, before the intall :)	16:55
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MohammadAG	reinstalling is for the faint hearted :P	16:55
Khertan	GAN900, there is less inertia	16:55
Khertan	hrw, in hildon-desktop	16:55
* GAN900 facepalms.		16:55
GAN900	It's like Nokia hates usability.	16:55
Khertan	hrw, :)	16:55
MohammadAG	less inertia = faster scrolling	16:55
lbt	Khertan: thanks.... non-obvious :)	16:55
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Jaffa	Tsk. TMO down?	16:56
Khertan	MohammadAG, ==more touch down to scroll == so more	16:56
DocScrutinizer	tmo MIA	16:56
MohammadAG	Jaffa, yes	16:56
MohammadAG	Khertan, where?	16:56
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Any chance of a fremantle-1.3.1 with the Modest patches?	16:56
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alterego	So, is there an updated madde sysroot too? :D	16:56
Khertan	MohammadAG, hildon-desktop application menun	16:56
alterego	And Nokia Qt SDK?!	16:56
sivang	Khertan: I did not see any conflicting packages	16:56
Khertan	hopefully it s not the case in microb	16:57
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Khertan	:)	16:57
GAN900	"New update! We threw in some bug fixes, but we need to figure out how to make it less usable and more obnoxious."	16:57
Khertan	ouf ...	16:57
MohammadAG	Khertan, check transitions.ini	16:57
rmrfchik	damn.. not enough memory for install	16:57
MohammadAG	Jaffa, sure, I was waiting for 1.3	16:57
Khertan	MohammadAG, never touch it :)	16:57
MohammadAG	Jaffa, now I can announce the SSU, when I fix HAM and make it accept it	16:57
KaffeeJunky123	can maemo make phone calls with a nokia n900 ;P?	16:57
Khertan	rotate in khweeteur is faster too	16:57
* DocScrutinizer YAWNS at all 1.3 hype		16:57
javispedro	GAN900: hey, better than the last time where they less usable part was not trivially noticed :)	16:57
MohammadAG	Khertan, I'm asking you to	16:57
javispedro	s/they/the	16:58
Khertan	MohammadAG, where is it located ?	16:58
MohammadAG	Khertan, check if /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini has deceleration_rate	16:58
* DocScrutinizer doesn't see a single point in updating right now		16:58
hawaii_	Neither me.	16:58
Khertan	DocScrutinizer, Qt4.7	16:58
DocScrutinizer	blaarg	16:58
Khertan	fix many bugs :)	16:58
alterego	I can see this being a bit of a fail ..	16:59
DocScrutinizer	I fixed all bugs that annoyed me, without 1.3	16:59
KaffeeJunky123	qt4.7? that's newer stuff than my desktop runs	16:59
DocScrutinizer	:-P	16:59
alterego	We all update to PR1.3 and there's no Nokia Qt SDK to develop with	16:59
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DocScrutinizer	yep	16:59
DocScrutinizer	exactly	16:59
hrw	Khertan: rotating in khweeteur was awful...	16:59
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: that means you have the changelog then?	16:59
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KaffeeJunky123	I thought maemo was focused on hildon ui?	16:59
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tybollt	alterego: isn't that the exact same "chicken or the egg" problem that struck us last time around? :-S	17:00
* KaffeeJunky123 just ordered a nokia n900 yesterday and is very eager to find out about maemo stuff		17:00
erani	welcome on board	17:00
Stskeeps	zImage-2.6.28-20103103+0m5 is PR1.3 kernel?	17:00
alterego	reset	17:00
alterego	Meh	17:00
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hrw	1007 packages to upgrade - nice set	17:00
alterego	Well, I suppose we have scratchbox ....	17:00
KaffeeJunky123	erani: not quite yet, the phone is yet to be delivered	17:01
Khertan	MohammadAG, http://pastebin.com/szqBpswH	17:01
auenf	<DocScrutinizer> I fixed all bugs that annoyed me, without 1.3 <-- mail client?	17:01
Khertan	alterego, Nokia Qt SDK is useless !	17:01
Shapeshifter	oh damn	17:01
* GAN900 contemplates attempting the upgrade on EDGE		17:01
KaffeeJunky123	erani: I hope my prior linux experience will help with maemo, I'm using debian stable as my main os on my desktop.	17:01
DocScrutinizer	there's no bug annoying me in modest, as I largely ignore modest	17:01
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Shapeshifter	the hildon desktop conf was overwritten ....	17:01
alterego	PR1.3 is now on tablets-dev	17:01
jacekowski	modest is slow and slow	17:01
jacekowski	and slow	17:01
sivang	alterego: what do you mean? wouldn't the nokia qt sdk work on Maemo 1.3?	17:01
Shapeshifter	why do they do that. that's what I call broken	17:01
MohammadAG	WHAT, THE, FUCK	17:02
auenf	alternative to modest then?	17:02
tybollt	MohammadAG: ???	17:02
KaffeeJunky123	that's what I call make backups inb4 updating ^^	17:02
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MohammadAG	it's older than my package	17:02
Shapeshifter	KaffeeJunky123: configs aren't supposed to be deleted on linux.	17:02
alterego	No UK varient ..	17:02
MohammadAG	Khertan, it's quite awesome really :)	17:02
KaffeeJunky123	Shapeshifter: I know, but just in case	17:02
MohammadAG	jacekowski, modest is old old old, I'll update my package for 1.3	17:02
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DocScrutinizer	auenf: Konversation/Kmail	17:02
Khertan	MohammadAG, ? the .ini ?	17:03
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X-Fade	alterego: not yet.	17:03
MohammadAG	<alterego> PR1.3 is now on tablets-dev where?	17:03
alterego	:)	17:03
DocScrutinizer	auenf: and even that is at it's limits with my mail	17:03
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alterego	X-Fade: well, I always use the global variant anyway ^.^	17:03
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KaffeeJunky123	Shapeshifter: you never know when updates'll blow up things, it's not a linux only rule	17:03
alterego	MohammadAG: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	17:03
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MohammadAG	hildon-desktop in 1.3 is not the latest git source	17:03
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DocScrutinizer	s/Konversation/Kontacts	17:04
javispedro	well, PR1.3 is released, start wishing for PR1.4. rinse-repeat.	17:04
Khertan	lol	17:04
alterego	No updated eMMC content though ^.^	17:04
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Shapeshifter	KaffeeJunky123: on linux, the rule is: don't overwrite configs and if you have to put a new config in place because of broken compatiblity, then make a backup before doing so.	17:04
maybeWTF	javispedro: think big. PR1.6!	17:04
Khertan	javispedro, last hildon-desktop :)	17:04
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: ask for ~pr1.5!	17:04
Khertan	hum ... map start faster	17:04
* alterego starts speculating about PR1.4		17:04
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javispedro	PR1.4 will end world hunger! again!	17:04
maybeWTF	does it have voice navigation now?	17:04
alterego	Maybe we should just start trolling users on tmo	17:04
* maybeWTF ducks & covers		17:04
KaffeeJunky123	Shapeshifter: wich simply means some packet maintainer fucked up the update	17:04
phryk	did anyone get the new maemo update working without the pc suite??	17:04
alterego	Hah	17:04
Shapeshifter	KaffeeJunky123: some nokia package maintainer ^^	17:05
Arkenoi	where is pr1.3 fiasco image? i give up with ota.	17:05
erani	phryk: yeah	17:05
alterego	Hahahah	17:05
RST38h	alterego: tmo down, too many lemmings today, too loud screams	17:05
Shapeshifter	Khertan: I don't think it starts faster	17:05
KaffeeJunky123	Shapeshifter: nothing less to expect from them I guess	17:05
erani	maybeWTF: no there's not	17:05
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alterego	Arkenoi: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	17:05
phryk	erani: how much space did you have free on /	17:05
alterego	Can everyone wait until I've downloaded it though, I don't want to have to wait an hour for the image to download if everyone starts ripping it ..	17:05
MohammadAG	wow	17:05
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MohammadAG	mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/Desktop/PR1.3$ md5sum RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	17:05
MohammadAG	b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	17:05
MohammadAG	that's the leaked image	17:05
RST38h	wow?	17:05
KaffeeJunky123	I see the N900 as a nerd toy capable of making phone calls, is that about right?	17:05
MohammadAG	b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin this is the official one	17:06
alterego	If you'd all kindly wait 7 minutes for my download to complete ;)	17:06
erani	phryk: 84mb	17:06
phryk	KaffeeJunky123: seems right	17:06
maybeWTF	KaffeeJunky123: pretty much	17:06
phryk	erani: i have 81.2mb free	17:06
RST38h	mohammad, yes, we know	17:06
KaffeeJunky123	so it is what I want =)	17:06
MohammadAG	leaked = official, I'm disappointed	17:06
javispedro	doesn't surprise me.	17:06
phryk	erani: sure that it was the update that came out today? o_O	17:06
alterego	Heh	17:06
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secyritas	MohammadAG: lol, then I flashed the official one for nothing ...	17:06
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erani	phryk: yeah :P double and triple-checked today	17:06
javispedro	MohammadAG: "disappointed" is the only word that comes after a PR update. You eventually realize it and stop wishing for those :)	17:06
erani	(not really, but yeah it's the correct one)	17:06
Khertan	javispedro, having qt4.7 make me happy :)	17:07
erani	I'm actually looking forward to Qt Ovi Maps with the voice navigation to N900... but I'm quite sceptical for it to come on the device, but you never know...	17:07
hawaii_	No voice nav, sir.	17:07
alterego	Damn, the leaked was the official global image?	17:07
GAN900	I really wish	17:07
Shapeshifter	Meh. no good. modest still doesn't upload sent emails using IMAP	17:08
Shapeshifter	crap.	17:08
GAN900	somebody would replace Nokia	17:08
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alterego	Or maybe the chinese have hacked tablets-dev ..	17:08
sivang	hehe	17:08
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rlinfati	Hi, on pr1.3 (ota version) the repository for OVI is https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle1.2/ovi/ ? is correct ?	17:08
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sivang	that is funny	17:08
Shapeshifter	GAN900: isn't intel replacing nokia? ^^	17:08
phryk	erani: weird, ill try to free the remaining 2mb :/	17:08
hrw	Shapeshifter: you expected sane mailer in maemo?	17:08
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KaffeeJunky123	Shapeshifter: aren't there dozens of other mail clients you could possibly use?	17:08
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: so version number was identical for leaked and current?	17:08
sivang	alterego: so I need to do work in between, 1.3 does not have a compatble qt sdk yet?	17:08
Shapeshifter	hrw: expect? no. have a glimmer of hope? yes	17:08
sivang	alterego: or madde cross compilation env or am I fuding?	17:09
erani	phryk: no rush, Scelt had only ~60mb free, but you'll have to remove two packages to do the update (if you have them installed)	17:09
alterego	sivang: should do in scratchbox, but no madde sysroot	17:09
sivang	alterego: ah I see, back to the good 'o days	17:09
phryk	erani: which ones?	17:09
Shapeshifter	KaffeeJunky123: not really. they're not made for mobile use. apart from the sent mail thing and the fact that you cannot select text when viewing an email, modest is okay.	17:09
Shapeshifter	at least for me	17:09
sivang	alterego: how did you confirm that, tried deploying from creator to the new 1.3 running image?	17:09
erani	phryk: libqt4-test and libgles1-sgx-img	17:09
hrw	Shapeshifter: lose all hope the ones who use maemo - or sth like that wrote one guy eons ago...	17:09
Shapeshifter	^^	17:09
alterego	GAN900: do you think a lot of our frustration and ill will towards Nokia, in fact I don't have any, but most peoples is actually because, what other company can anyone say they've worked so hard and close to for the past 4 years?	17:10
erani	sorry, took some time to scroll the logs for those pkg names...	17:10
sivang	KaffeeJunky123: it is also quite slow	17:10
alterego	For a community.	17:10
frals	Shapeshifter: hold shift and select the text you want?	17:10
GAN900	alterego, and what other company exists that manages to deliver a platform and product that's half as much as what Maemo is?	17:10
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, version number? meh, md5sums are equal	17:10
alterego	Maybe because I'm not interested, but does microsoft/MSDN ever do what Nokia have done for/with us?	17:10
DocScrutinizer	LOL	17:10
sivang	alterego: things aren't that bad. Maemo was and still provides the best development experience in my taste.	17:10
Shapeshifter	frals: !!!	17:11
sivang	re: openess and able to tinker with down stuff	17:11
lardman	Anyone have any working QtMobility QContact related code?	17:11
alterego	sivang: I don't think things are bad at all, I'm still having fun	17:11
Shapeshifter	frals: thanks! I didn't know about that :<	17:11
KaffeeJunky123	sivang: as long as emacs runs on it :>	17:11
frals	MohammadAG: md5sum are broken afaik ;-)	17:11
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: your bug-bashing was a 110% success stroy it seems	17:11
erani	besides - you don't have to pay 99$ per year to develop on n900 \o/	17:11
SpacedOut	If I upgrade to PR 1.3 do I loose the power kernel or do I wait for a new power kernel or what?	17:11
DocScrutinizer	sorry*	17:11
alterego	I'm merely talking about GAN900's snipe at Nokia a minute ago :P	17:11
DocScrutinizer	story*	17:11
phryk	erani: i have neither of those	17:11
sivang	it's just that this community has already gotten used to so high standards, that they like to affection-complain about stuff.	17:11
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erani	phryk: strange	17:11
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	17:11
sivang	erani: right!	17:11
MohammadAG	b9f8690318a3be61767826d15b8c1784 Official	17:12
phryk	erani: let me first try again	17:12
fcrochik	lardman: I have... mycontacts	17:12
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phryk	removed lots of packages on my way^^;	17:12
alterego	If I'd known that, I would have got the leaked ;)	17:12
Shapeshifter	mhh	17:12
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Shapeshifter	nokia will send you the source code of open source stuff used in maemo on CD if you request it by mail xD	17:12
Commander1024	phryk, and most of them were solely on emmc card, I suppose	17:12
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alterego	When did the leak leak, it was only thursday last week wasn't it?	17:13
frals	Shapeshifter: np :)	17:13
Shapeshifter	I wonder if someone ever ordered one of those CDs.	17:13
MohammadAG	frals, I'm thinking some other person (or company) is broken	17:13
hawaii_	alterego, Oct 8th.	17:13
alterego	flashing n900 now	17:13
MohammadAG	ffs	17:13
MohammadAG	QTextBrowser has a bug in the leaked version	17:13
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MohammadAG	I hope it's because of it being compiled against 4.6.2	17:13
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sivang	oh YEAH!	17:13
sivang	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8747	17:13
povbot	Bug 8747: Ringing tone selector crashes Settings application	17:13
MohammadAG	alterego, the image is dated week 36	17:13
javispedro	XXX has a bug!	17:14
javispedro	ohnoes!	17:14
sivang	so this is what 1.3 i about!	17:14
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: could be fun to try :-)	17:14
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sivang	it is about my own precious bug that died some time ago...:-D	17:14
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sivang	thanks andre__	17:14
* javispedro 's not getting any bugzilla spam, so... bad luck.		17:14
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javispedro	"try again next PR!"	17:14
sivang	people, we should all agree it is fun to be here, right?	17:15
sivang	javispedro: HAHAHA	17:15
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MohammadAG	sivang, SDK update worked	17:15
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sivang	MohammadAG: okay, then something was crapped here	17:15
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: ask infobot about next PR, like ~pr1.4 and esp ~pr1.5 !	17:15
GAN900	sivang, hardly anymore.	17:15
Shapeshifter	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9963 lol nokia	17:16
povbot	Bug 9963: Geolocation status in IM stops working after connection problem	17:16
Shapeshifter	wontfix	17:16
lardman	fcrochik: ah, great, will take a look	17:16
erani	Shapeshifter: :D	17:16
Shapeshifter	"Not critical enough to fix in Maemo5" it's broken half of the time	17:16
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sivang	Shapeshifter: it is better to conceal your location, trust me.	17:17
KaffeeJunky123	they're probably focusing on maemo6	17:17
andre__	sivang, sure :)	17:17
GAN900	"We don't have any resources committed to improving Maemo. It's still supported, though!"	17:17
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javispedro	GAN900++	17:17
jaska	"supported"	17:17
fcrochik	lardman: what are you looking for?	17:17
sivang	andre__: the problem is, I had some trouble reproducing after 1.2, I will try harder after 1.3	17:17
KaffeeJunky123	you've the source code, so there are chances the community will fix it	17:17
GAN900	jaska, clearly the issue.	17:17
lardman	fcrochik: adding a new contact	17:17
sivang	andre__: I wish we could add automatic regression testing for that	17:18
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lardman	fcrochik: I'm parsing MECARDs decoded from QR code barcodes and trying to add them to the db	17:18
sivang	andre__: I mean, it is quite expansive to find out those things, so once we found it, it is better to memorate it for eternity	17:18
fcrochik	lardman: I haven't tried that... mycontacts is "readonly"	17:18
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GAN900	KaffeeJunky123, depends. We don't have source for many things.	17:18
lardman	fcrochik: ok, well at least I can see how you got the correct QContactManager backend	17:18
KaffeeJunky123	GAN900: that's pretty stupid then ^^	17:19
lardman	rather than just trying each in turn until one works which is my current method	17:19
fcrochik	lardman: cool idea! there is an example on git ...can't remember where I saw	17:19
jaska	disable agps?:D	17:19
DocScrutinizer	where's the friggin changelog to convince me I want pr1.3?	17:19
lardman	fcrochik: yeah I'm using an example I found, but I get an error, so thought I'd try to use something that is proven to work	17:19
Shapeshifter	sivang: how so?	17:19
fcrochik	lardman: that is the easy part....just use the default constructor.... there is only one backend for the n900... maemo5	17:20
lardman	DocScrutinizer: it's far snappier, that alone is worth it	17:20
Shapeshifter	sivang: all people in my jabber contacts are people I know personally. and I'm not that paranoid about anything else	17:20
lardman	fcrochik: ah ok	17:20
sivang	Shapeshifter: kidding :)	17:20
sivang	Shapeshifter: I personally don't like to share location, that's all	17:20
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GAN900	andre__, has your job description been changed to "For the purpose of posterity" yet? :P	17:20
DocScrutinizer	lardman: sorry when I have a hard time believing in that	17:20
fcrochik	lardman: you won't find the souce code for mycontats on the repository but feel free to let me know and I will get you whatever I have	17:20
lardman	np :D	17:20
lardman	fcrochik: ok cheers	17:21
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andre__	GAN900: what job description? I thought I'd simply s/maemo/meego :-P	17:21
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: from a qt pov it might be very well be snappier (qt4.7)	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: are you sure this "much snappier" claim isn't caused by mere fact of reflashing clean, or simply removing cruft pkgs?	17:22
lardman	Docscrutinizer: I did OTA	17:22
* MohammadAG hates human psychology		17:22
lardman	and only removed a couple of packages to clear some space, none of which run all the time	17:22
MohammadAG	why? cause it's shit	17:22
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Shapeshifter	it doesn't feel snappier to me	17:23
xDaReaperx	PR 1.3 yay !	17:23
GAN900	andre__, yeah, but they have Intel people to do your job in MeeGo. :P	17:23
* MohammadAG remembers when someone said his device felt snappier cause of OCing, checked their device, it was @ 600MHz		17:23
xDaReaperx	how will i know when the update comes on my phone ?	17:23
MohammadAG	he only thought it was OC'd, and so, it felt snapper	17:23
lardman	Shapeshifter: oh, oh well	17:23
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ACK!!	17:23
maybeWTF	MohammadAG: so the trick is to underclock?	17:23
andre__	GAN900: yeah, but they suck as much as the Nokians sucked ;-)	17:23
VladNistor	I'm using fapman for the upgrade, hope there won't be any issues	17:23
DocScrutinizer	maybeWTF: the trick is age old and called placebo	17:24
KaffeeJunky123	Intel people	17:24
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KaffeeJunky123	they're focused on their platform only	17:24
sivang	andre__: I should talk to timo and vilvo probably right? :)	17:24
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KaffeeJunky123	doubt they'll do anything about arm	17:24
MohammadAG	no tricks, our brains are shit	17:24
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Stskeeps	andre__: well, at least it seems like your subversive methods are having an effect :)	17:24
* MohammadAG replaces brain with a core i7		17:24
KaffeeJunky123	don't do it	17:24
DocScrutinizer	registry optimizers (WinShit) using this 'trick' all the time	17:25
VladNistor	i wouldn't do that MohammadAG, it can't program itself :))	17:25
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: our brains are quite good. they're just bad at maths.	17:25
MohammadAG	andre__, doesn't https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10294 need a comment of yours :)	17:25
povbot	Bug 10294: Email desktop widget does not display mails from Nokia Messaging accounts	17:25
hrw	VladNistor: I am using good old apt-get ;D	17:25
andre__	sivang: no idea who those both actually are, sorry :)	17:25
hrw	VladNistor: in remote ssh session	17:25
KaffeeJunky123	DocScrutinizer: didn't work for me, auctually those crappy tools tend to make windoze even slower	17:25
sivang	andre__: qa people. nevermind :)	17:25
GAN900	andre__, yeah, convincing they're managers of that is problematic, though.	17:25
KaffeeJunky123	DocScrutinizer: switching to gnu/linux helped though	17:26
andre__	sivang, maybe I have seen them of some list but not on a public mailinglist yet. but they are welcome to ;-)	17:26
VladNistor	hrw, yeah, that should work too. I think fapman doesn't store it's stuff on the small rootfs, so i shouldn't run into the issues some people are having with connecting to a pc	17:26
sivang	andre__: right, I was just looking for meeg-qa ml and failed	17:27
Stskeeps	uhm	17:27
Shapeshifter	fapman giggle	17:27
Stskeeps	there's meego-qa@	17:27
Stskeeps	and it just had a shitload of qa reports posted	17:27
andre__	sivang: so let's take over. I don't care if people have some position on a paper. It's what you do and act ;-)	17:27
patrakov	hi. while trying to work around the "flacs are not seekable" bug, I installed decibel-audio-player (from the official tarball) and all its dependencies	17:27
andre__	it's a great time for that. many things still to define :)	17:28
hrw	VladNistor: to tell the truth tricks which fapman does makes me want to hack fapman to stop doing it	17:28
andre__	Stskeeps, one intel person even answers part of my question on that mailing list (and doesn't answer a few others)	17:28
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alterego	tmo seems to be back	17:29
andre__	MohammadAG, Re 10294: Right. but I wonder what to do as 50% are WONTFIX and 50% are FIXED :-P	17:29
patrakov	problem: it crashes on startup, unless I unset GTK2_RC_FILES. Any existing bug on that? How to debug?	17:29
sivang	andre__: okay, thanks :)	17:29
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: tmo maybe found some time to answer your request - that doesn't mean it's 'back'	17:29
MohammadAG	andre__, add a FIXED...NOT option to bugzilla	17:30
alterego	Heh	17:30
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hrw	another 20 packages to install...	17:30
sivang	andre__: and nice to see you around, are you coming to meego-conf?	17:30
hrw	MohammadAG: you mean NOTABUGFORNOKIA?	17:30
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maybeWTF	KOWABUNGA?	17:30
chem\|st	turtles rule!	17:31
hrw	or just WEDONOTCAREMAYBEINMEEGO	17:31
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sivang	hrw: that'll be better, at least fo rthe community	17:31
chem\|st	WEDONTSPEAKNOAMERICANO	17:31
javispedro	heh	17:31
andre__	sivang, yepp. I even have a talk on MeeGo bugtriaging, but on Wednesday morning and after a party evening. I have the naive hope that some "MeeGo QA" people will attend so one could discuss	17:32
hrw	sivang: but community uses devices which will not be supported in nokiameego	17:32
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hrw	ok, fingers crossed. rebooting n900	17:32
DocScrutinizer	andre__: abandon all hope	17:32
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hrw	sivang: so maemo5 bugs can be fixed or ignored. mostly are ignored	17:33
sivang	andre__: well, even if not,I have some hopes for my talk to create some traction and discussion, qa should be one of the subjects, although there are already quite some :)	17:33
sivang	hrw: some of the wontfix are sad, indeed.	17:33
sivang	the upgrade one the most for me..	17:33
hrw	~hail wdgt_bd_done	17:34
* infobot bows down to wdgt_bd_done and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		17:34
andre__	sivang, when is yours?	17:34
sivang	as it is used as mockery of the platform by other platform owners	17:34
hrw	my phone lost l10n	17:34
sivang	andre__: wed as well I think	17:34
andre__	yay	17:34
hrw	wdgt_va_ago_minutes	17:34
sivang	andre__: and I have timeless to keep me realisitc :)	17:35
VladNistor	hrw, talking about fapman, it stopped after downloading 600/1021 packages	17:35
sivang	andre__: actually, it would help if you could come and provide you view of things, to be recorded and documented	17:35
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sivang	andre__: check the abstrac,t I don't want to log into the site too many times form here:)	17:35
* hrw goes to change cpal_fi_pr_device_language		17:36
javispedro	WHAT. THE.	17:37
hrw	ok, have a nice time /me -> other uds session	17:37
javispedro	libgls1-sgx-img is broken again in this PR?	17:37
javispedro	(I did not try but already getting PMs about it...)	17:37
hawaii_	Define broken.	17:37
javispedro	mismatched version with sgx-img-common	17:37
X-Fade	javispedro: Every update will break apps. As it has strict dependencies.	17:37
javispedro	(uninstallable package)	17:37
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hawaii_	Yes.	17:38
javispedro	X-Fade: the issue is that, not being part of the core image, its version number "falls behind". until someone realizes and bumps it, that is.	17:38
hawaii_	Are we talking post or pre update?	17:38
javispedro	post-update	17:38
hawaii_	Yes, it is broken.	17:38
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javispedro	hah	17:39
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* javispedro prepares for the eventual PM flood, creates gmail filter for @tmo stuff		17:39
tybollt	is there any speculation as to N900 NG what it'll be and when it is due?	17:39
tybollt	there was a (obviously fake) pic floating around...	17:39
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hawaii_	NIT NG? or what?	17:40
hawaii_	the N9 builds "off" the N900	17:40
hawaii_	E7-style device, N900-style internals.	17:40
xDaReaperx	i got this maemo 5 update shown on my mobile should i update guys ?	17:40
xDaReaperx	or charge my battery and update	17:41
sivang	anyway, off to freeswitch	17:41
tybollt	hawaii_: URL? :)	17:42
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hawaii_	IRL.	17:42
xDaReaperx	anyone ?	17:42
tybollt	xDaReaperx: having a fully charged battery prior to updating is always a good idea - good on you.	17:42
xDaReaperx	ok ty	17:42
xDaReaperx	should i update from the mobile	17:42
xDaReaperx	or use flasher ?	17:43
tybollt	sure, why not	17:43
xDaReaperx	ok	17:43
tybollt	try OTA first	17:43
xDaReaperx	cause i read elsewhere you need vanilla emcc or something	17:43
xDaReaperx	ok	17:43
xDaReaperx	i can install meego later right ?	17:43
tybollt	sure you can	17:43
jarkkom	was there any kind of official changelog for pr1.3?	17:43
xDaReaperx	ok ty	17:44
tybollt	jarkkom: everyone's asking, so far nothing...	17:44
tybollt	<-- official FAQ engine today... :-/	17:44
DocScrutinizer	tybollt: thanks for that :-)	17:44
lcuk	<danielwilms> Venemo_N810: hey, the changelog is here: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt	17:45
danielwilms	BTW: hi lcuk	17:45
danielwilms	;)	17:45
lcuk	\o	17:46
* lcuk been busy today		17:46
dolp	is there any details about that dualboot option thing?	17:46
alterego	I was actually just about to test kexec ;)	17:46
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hawaii_	Has work not shifted to uBoot?	17:47
sivang	alterego: ooo	17:47
* sivang hopes for the 1.3 changelog to come soon		17:47
jarkkom	too bad there isn't qt mobility 1.1 yet for n900 as that would've added map widget to qt :\|	17:47
SpacedOut	If I upgrade to PR 1.3 do I loose the power kernel or do I wait for a new power kernel or what?	17:47
sivang	but maybe it can be accessed from the HAM?	17:47
DocScrutinizer	dolp: dualboot as in meego is done via chainloading uBoot bootloader. It's not related to kexec	17:47
* lcuk ponders		17:47
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sivang	sorry for being blank (just say yes!) but what's the power kernel?	17:47
oshin	nokia sucks	17:48
DocScrutinizer	~tell sivang about pr1.3	17:48
alterego	sivang: custom kernel that allows overclocking and has other stuff	17:48
dos1	upgrade to 1.3 from FAM should be safe, yes?	17:48
alterego	Apparently already had working kexec	17:48
oshin	better nuke maemo and stick with nitdroid or meego	17:48
rmrfchik	my favivourite bug with l10n is not fixed	17:48
SpacedOut	sivang: The custom kernel with IPv6 and ext4 etc.	17:48
oshin	they don't bother fixing silly bug that block the usage for my people	17:48
oshin	and don't release the source	17:48
oshin	stupid company with stupid engineers	17:48
* oshin gets away		17:49
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javispedro	dos1: it is better to use application manager -- it will work nevertheless.	17:49
alterego	oshin: you're a nokia employee?!	17:49
* chem\|st patches tybollt with PR1.3 now available at tablets-dev.nokia.com		17:50
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dolp	eMMC image going to be updated? (tablets-dev.nokia.com)	17:52
DocScrutinizer	~tell dolp about flashing	17:52
tybollt	wonder why DocScrutinizer does ~tell tybollt to GTFO all the time :(	17:53
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tybollt	;)	17:53
DocScrutinizer	tybollt: ???	17:53
dolp	doc ok :)	17:53
Gh0sty	is it "normal" that sometimes while charging the orange led does not blink? :/	17:53
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: I was just joking around... never mind :)	17:53
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: I've a terrible sense of humour	17:54
GAN900	Gh0sty, usually means it's not actually charging.	17:54
frals	oshin: yeah, blame the engineers, its probably their fault.......	17:54
DocScrutinizer	sivang: I have to say the linked URL isn't a proper changelog either	17:54
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Commander1024	hmm, running the update via shell on an ssh session is much more convenient, and it doesnt complain about leeching it via umts or because of package conflicts	17:55
javispedro	or emergency charging	17:55
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: noted	17:56
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Appiah	~PR1.3	17:58
infobot	pr1.3 is, like, the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt	17:58
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Arkenoi	any known conflicts for pr1.3? ussd widget? advanced kernel?	17:58
rlinfati	Arkenoi, libqt4-test	18:00
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Gh0sty	GAN900: it is charging, if i look at the screen it shows the battery icon as charging ...	18:00
DocScrutinizer	Gh0sty: MUHAHA	18:00
Gh0sty	what? :p	18:00
Gh0sty	ghosts in the machine? :p	18:00
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DocScrutinizer	~flatbatrecover	18:00
*** ArGGu^^_ is now known as ArGGu^^		18:00
infobot	Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover	18:00
ArGGu^^	Since when upgrading the firmware over ssu requires PC Suite	18:00
MohammadAG	yay	18:00
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: since you have packages in conflict or not enough space	18:00
MohammadAG	QTextBrowser broken even when using 1.3 SDK, nice, it was working on 1.2 and now they broke it	18:00
* MohammadAG cba to open a bug		18:00
alterego	Heh	18:00
MohammadAG	won't be fixed	18:00
ArGGu^^	chem\|st well then I must have conflict with packages	18:00
alterego	MohammadAG: come on, of course it will PR1.4 ftw!	18:00
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: qt4 testing and gles-sdx	18:00
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ArGGu^^	I have not installed none of those	18:00
oshin	frals, for being too stupid to fix a silly bug they invented in PR1.2 and my device can't sms anymore yes, i can blame them.	18:00
MohammadAG	alterego, meh	18:01
chem\|st	uninstall some devel and testing apps...	18:01
oshin	says, SMS	18:01
ArGGu^^	I only have apps from the extra	18:01
sivang	oshin: ah? what kindof bug?	18:01
DocScrutinizer	err, what's up with infobot and services	18:01
sivang	oshin: why does it stop SMS?	18:01
oshin	sivang, text input mess up for my language.	18:01
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DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	18:02
infobot	DocScrutinizer: thanks	18:02
oshin	sivang, and I reported a bug a few months ago	18:02
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: then it is space	18:02
ArGGu^^	Just rembered I have one app that is not from maemo repos	18:02
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DocScrutinizer	WTF??	18:02
oshin	#10747	18:02
kerio	hmm, how do i update with a half-broken usb port?	18:02
kerio	:3	18:03
chem\|st	kerio: wifi?	18:03
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frals	oshin: yes, this is surely all nokia engineers fault, they are all idiots, lets burn em	18:03
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kerio	chem\|st: good point	18:03
kerio	but i updated libsdl	18:03
kerio	so i'm not sure if that will work	18:03
* chem\|st hands matches to oshin		18:03
oshin	frals, I didn't say all.	18:04
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frals	17:48:59 < oshin> stupid company with stupid engineers	18:04
oshin	see there's no all in that	18:04
frals	theres no word indicating anyone specific either	18:05
lcuk	^^^^^ frals is a nokia engineer and one of the worlds leading MMS developers :P	18:05
oshin	frals, then it's your problem.	18:05
oshin	frals, and like I care.	18:05
phryk	maah wtf	18:05
* kerio hugs frals		18:05
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phryk	i can't update because the sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list is fucked up	18:05
frals	sigh	18:05
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phryk	and not the repos i added, but the ones that are there by default o_O	18:06
frals	oshin: please take your nokia complains to nokia care, they are happy to hear them	18:06
fcrochik	I just started a "apt-get dist-upgrade".... am I going to regret it?	18:06
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Shapeshifter	fcrochik: maybe	18:06
frals	fcrochik: if you have devel/testing enabled you might	18:06
oshin	frals, no, i won't, coz that's the reason why i will stop spending time with maemo	18:06
hawaii_	Probably.	18:06
fcrochik	frals: I surely do!	18:06
chem\|st	fcrochik: depends on the active repos	18:07
frals	fcrochik: chances are you will regret it then :)	18:07
chem\|st	frals: with sdk active sure he will	18:07
ArGGu^^	chem\|st remove amsn but still wants pc suite, I have 25,69gb free for my docs and for apps 1,55gb free	18:07
fcrochik	frals: great! I assume trying to stop will be even worst, right?	18:07
kerio	oshin: so please do that	18:07
javispedro	kerio: you did what to libsdl?	18:07
frals	oshin: please dont complain in the maemo community channel then	18:07
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: and /	18:07
kerio	javispedro: updated it	18:07
jarkkom	looks like PR1.3 finally fixed my Ovi suite on my win7 64bit machines	18:07
frals	fcrochik: dunno, im no expert, just going on past mistakes ;D	18:07
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oshin	kerio, i don't care	18:08
phryk	can someone tell me what to put there instead of "./" ? i tried "fremantle-1.2 free non-free" but that did not work	18:08
chem\|st	fcrochik: if it is still downloading just ctrl-c it	18:08
* Arkenoi just never used ovi suite		18:08
javispedro	kerio: is it changed? O.o /me faints	18:08
oshin	frals, i can sure don't care to leave my last words	18:08
fcrochik	chem\|st: no...that is the problem ...it has removed a lot of stuff already	18:08
t_s_o	forum taking a beating?	18:08
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frals	you seem to care a lot for someone whos not caring :)	18:08
chem\|st	fcrochik: what was the install size?	18:08
chem\|st	or dl size?	18:08
fcrochik	chem\|st: don't remember but was a "lot"	18:09
chem\|st	fcrochik: 84MB?	18:09
ArGGu^^	chem\|st 85.7mb	18:09
ArGGu^^	in /	18:09
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: free?	18:09
ArGGu^^	yes	18:09
RST38h	what is the ssu package name?	18:10
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fcrochik	chem\|st: no idea....it is still removing... :(	18:10
RST38h	anyone knows?	18:10
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: then I dont know why it is requesting suite upgrade	18:10
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kerio	should SSU just automagically work?	18:10
chem\|st	fcrochik: screwed... but there is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	18:10
ArGGu^^	chem\|st ok thanks for help	18:10
hawaii_	yes, SSU should "just work".	18:10
fcrochik	chem\|st: one day I will learn to ask the question first....	18:11
chem\|st	fcrochik: while it is deleting and upgrading let backup run	18:11
Khertan	<chem\|st> <<-- probably a conflicting package	18:11
fcrochik	chem\|st: I ran backup first...at least!	18:11
Khertan	libqt4-test is one possible	18:11
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chem\|st	Khertan: is that in extras?	18:12
Khertan	just read what it s say in the details about which are the conflicting package	18:12
Khertan	chem\|st, probably not	18:12
chem\|st	answered yourself	18:12
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Gh0sty	ooh an update for maemo 5 :i	18:12
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Gh0sty	pr 1.3 is out ? :o	18:12
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Khertan	chem\|st, lol	18:12
chem\|st	Gh0sty: you are one of the faster people arent you?	18:12
fcrochik	it seems to be removing EVERY package on the device, including ALL applications	18:12
Khertan	nawak	18:13
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chem\|st	fcrochik: at least anything with hildon or osso in its name...	18:13
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fcrochik	chem\|st: not just....every application (including the ones I created :( )	18:13
xDaReaperx	Does the PR.13 show any changes ? like the browser loads faster ?	18:13
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chem\|st	xDaReaperx: still removing stuff from flashing	18:14
alterego	everything seems the same to me	18:14
xDaReaperx	ok	18:14
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xDaReaperx	yeah must be only bug fixes	18:14
fcrochik	GREAT NEWS! yes! yes.... the phone just crashed! :(	18:14
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xDaReaperx	will the MohammadAG's better kinetic scrolling interfere with the update ?	18:14
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MohammadAG	no, it'll just remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr	18:15
xDaReaperx	ok ty	18:15
alterego	hahah	18:15
xDaReaperx	lol	18:15
chem\|st	xDaReaperx: at first view it seems to be a bit more responsive when on load	18:15
felipec	so there are no release notes?	18:15
xDaReaperx	yeah the browser starts up faster	18:15
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xDaReaperx	i think	18:15
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alterego	I really don't notice a difference ..	18:16
chem\|st	felipec: no	18:16
ArGGu^^	chem\|st in the updates details in summary tab also is that it needs PC Suite	18:16
chem\|st	felipec: at least not for devices	18:16
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DocScrutinizer	oshin: this is a cmmunity channel - send a mail to Nokia if you want to shout at them or let them know you're pissed. We dn't care and can't help	18:16
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: what does the installs show?	18:17
RST38h	Mohammad: Should I remove the generic-pr package before installing PR1.3?	18:17
MohammadAG	o_O	18:17
MohammadAG	how are you installing it?	18:17
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ArGGu^^	chem\|st there is not installs tab :S	18:17
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ahynes1	Has anyone tested PR 1.3 with power-kernel multiboot and or nitdroid?	18:17
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oshin	DocScrutinizer, I won't send one, I don't even bother with that anymore why you?	18:18
RST38h	Mohammad: I still do not have it showing up in the HAM, but going to do it with apt-get install	18:18
oshin	just let it go coz I already gave up.	18:18
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ArGGu^^	chem\|st found the reason the is problems tab and it has conflict with libgles1-sqx-img	18:18
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kerio	so... where's the ssu	18:19
chem\|st	ArGGu^^: that I told you at the beginning	18:19
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MohammadAG	RST38h, you'll need to downgrade all 5 packages first	18:19
oshin	not that I never sent, must let you know, they don't bother, actually i should sue them if I have time. so I let you know so you don't waste time suggesting anyone to do that.	18:19
ArGGu^^	chem\|st yeah but why I have somtehing like that installed :S	18:19
oshin	they don't care my problem.	18:19
RST38h	MohammadAG: could you pastebin necessary lines?	18:19
ArGGu^^	*something	18:19
MohammadAG	RST38h, sedc	18:19
MohammadAG	sec	18:19
felipec	DocScrutinizer: there are some Nokia people here who do care	18:19
felipec	oshin: I don't know what's your problem, but if you reported a bug "a few months" ago, that was probably too late for PR1.3	18:20
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ahynes1	Can anyone who has updated to PR 1.3 post the results of uname -a here?	18:20
kerio	oh shit 93mb of archives	18:20
kerio	is that right?	18:20
kerio	guys, help me here	18:20
chem\|st	kerio: yeah the pr itself is about 84	18:20
kerio	can i just upgrade with apt?	18:21
felipec	ahynes1: Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown	18:21
MohammadAG	ahynes1, August 6 if that's what you want	18:21
chem\|st	try ham first	18:21
oshin	felipec, 3 months ago, my bad then	18:21
kerio	ham doesn't let me :(	18:21
ahynes1	felipec: That's what I was looking for...	18:21
chem\|st	what does it say?	18:21
chem\|st	kerio: use pc-suite?	18:22
kerio	chem\|st: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH	18:22
felipec	oshin: no, it's not your fault, there just wasn't much time to fix that when your bug was posted	18:22
xDaReaperx	i'm using PC suit	18:22
ahynes1	Looks like it doesn't anything substantial the kernel, still 2.6.28 so power-kernel and nitdroid should still work.	18:22
kerio	if i could flash i'd just flash	18:22
chem\|st	kerio: what? if yes you have a conflicting package	18:22
felipec	oshin: anyway, I recommend you contact Nokia customer support	18:23
oshin	felipec, thanks, I did, several time	18:23
chem\|st	libgles1-sgx-img and qt4-test conflict	18:23
oshin	see? I should sue them.	18:24
oshin	but i won't waste my time.	18:24
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oshin	coz I don't use SMS	18:24
chem\|st	oshin: what is it about anyway?	18:24
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oshin	but the rest of others who were cheated	18:24
MohammadAG	pastebin.com down? :P	18:24
oshin	chem\|st, forget about it. don't bother. let it goes, like river.	18:25
MohammadAG	RST38h, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yMQvkDF8	18:25
MohammadAG	that should do it I suppose	18:25
RST38h	Thanks, Mohammad! =)	18:25
DocScrutinizer	oshin: maybe we could fix this problem n community?	18:25
MohammadAG	if not, I'll need to get you the packages from my old SDK :)	18:25
kerio	where should SSU appear, really?	18:25
kerio	apt tells me there are a thousand upgrades	18:25
jacekowski	some people already had it	18:26
RST38h	Will try once I get home from work, looks like US still has not got PR1.3	18:26
oshin	DocScrutinizer, I wasn't sure, there's no source. Thanks for a lot of your helps in the past I really appreciate them.	18:26
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jani	funny thing, tmo is not the fastest webserver today =)	18:26
oshin	may be they need to learn a lesson for not to buy nokia product.	18:26
ahynes1	apt tells me I have 1042 packages to upgrade... I'm about to try an OTA upgrade. Worked nicely when I went from 1.1 to 1.2	18:26
chem\|st	kerio: apt-get remove libgles1-sgx* qt4-test	18:26
javispedro	oshin: sue sue!	18:26
chem\|st	kerio: and look into ham again	18:27
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cosmos	hi	18:27
cosmos	any armel developpers there?	18:27
oshin	javispedro, there are a few more important stuffs I need to spend time in court.	18:27
oshin	javispedro, may be if this happen again in my life, i will.	18:27
DocScrutinizer	oshin: I might want to have a look into it. Is there any bug report where it's precisely described how to reproduce the issue?	18:28
MohammadAG	alterego, is there a way to set background colour explicitly?	18:28
oshin	DocScrutinizer, #10747	18:28
lcuk	oshin, bug 10747 you mean	18:28
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10747 Corrupted Thai text in conversation input box when using backspace.	18:28
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oshin	lcuk, yes.	18:28
lcuk	please use the bugbot correctly it helps people know what you are waffling about	18:28
* DocScrutinizer .oO("maybe related to SMS PDU")		18:28
alterego	MohammadAG: setStylesheet('background-color: #000000');	18:28
kerio	oshin: so don't make mistakes :)	18:28
ArGGu^^	chem\|st got it now to upgrade the libgles1 was in tuxrace depends, so thats whyt it was installed. Thanks for the help.	18:29
oshin	kerio, practically it is impossible to do that.	18:29
cosmos	How to modify Makefile to compile armel?	18:29
cosmos	What are the cflags?	18:29
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xDaReaperx	i'm connecting the n900 using cable and through PC suit , my PC suit also detects the phone , but it keeps telling me to update the device you must use PC suit on your PC	18:31
pronto	is it worth it to upgrade to pr 1.3?	18:31
ahynes1	rst38h: I'm doing an OTA pr 1.3 in the U.S. as we speak	18:32
RST38h	pronto: no, stay with PR1.0	18:32
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RST38h	ahynes1: Does not let me do it	18:32
MohammadAG	alterego, without using styleSheets	18:32
pronto	eh? 1.0? :/	18:32
alterego	MohammadAG: what's wrong with stylesheets?	18:32
RST38h	ahynes1: do you know the exact package name by any chance?	18:32
RST38h	alterego: they are evil?	18:32
DocScrutinizer	อาอา อาอา อาอ hmmm	18:32
sivang	RST38h: he's just a bit irritated :)	18:32
sivang	oops	18:32
sivang	pronto: ^^	18:32
RST38h	alterego: They do not show up in Lynx?	18:32
alterego	MohammadAG: well: hang on, I'll mock up a pastie as it's a couple of line worth	18:32
sivang	pronto: you can upgrade, but not sure what the result will be, handle with care (tm)	18:33
DocScrutinizer	bbl	18:33
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oshin	DocScrutinizer, note that in my language it's Ah, Ah, Ahhhhh, hmmm	18:33
MohammadAG	brb	18:33
sivang	pronto: some of us had some tinkering to be done after the upgrade, or before	18:33
ahynes1	RST38h: I'm doing it from the command line: sudo apt-get upgrade	18:33
sivang	some conflicting packages, et al	18:33
Milhouse	Probably mentioned already but the PR1.3 images are now up on tablet-dev	18:33
sivang	~tell pronto 1.3	18:34
RST38h	ahynes: ok	18:34
ahynes1	Phase one is giving me 242 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 75 to remove and 802 not upgraded.	18:34
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DocScrutinizer	oshin: this is definitely not occurring in any other txt input field, just conversations?	18:34
sivang	~tell	18:34
alterego	MohammadAG: http://pastie.org/1247564	18:34
alterego	Something liek that	18:34
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ahynes1	This is actually from removing a bad app. Next, I'll do apt-get dist-upgrade to get the remaining 802 packages.	18:34
sivang	~tell pronto about pr1.3	18:35
oshin	DocScrutinizer, yes, just the conversation	18:35
sivang	hmm, I am not godo at this	18:35
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MohammadAG	alterego, ty, rebooting	18:35
oshin	DocScrutinizer, may be something to do with the smiley support	18:35
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DocScrutinizer	quite reasonable assumption	18:36
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sivang	alterego: what's that brush doing?	18:36
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* alterego installs his scratchbox targets		18:36
ml-something	hmm	18:36
alterego	sivang: setting the background color of the widget :)	18:36
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alterego	MohammadAG: oh, and you need widget->setAutoFillBackground(true)	18:37
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RST38h	Ahahaha	18:37
RST38h	Apparently, "I live in United Kingdom"	18:37
RST38h	And not getting PR1.3	18:37
alterego	RST38h: cool, come visit me ::)	18:37
RST38h	Yea, right	18:37
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javispedro	RST38h: You have always lived in Oceania!	18:37
javispedro	RST38h: and the enemy has always been Eurasia!	18:38
alterego	RST38h: just download the image from tablets-dev? Or do you want OTA specifically?	18:38
jacekowski	i want OTA	18:38
RST38h	don't want to flash if I can	18:38
sivang	alterego: hackish!	18:38
sivang	:)	18:38
alterego	Meh, I flashed, screwed up my background image and icons, oh and my wifi ap configs	18:38
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sivang	alterego: wifi config just changed name, gconf editing fixed it	18:39
alterego	sivang, well, it's _the_ way to do it without stylesheets :P	18:39
lolloo	http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/ubuntu-moves-away-gnome	18:39
alterego	Oh, right	18:39
sivang	alterego: as in, the recommended way?	18:39
alterego	sivang: yup	18:39
sivang	alterego: now that I think of it, I forgot how I edited it-	18:39
sivang	alterego: there's a terminal binary for gconf to edit	18:39
chem\|st	alterego: the backup program stores all that in settings...	18:40
* sivang wonders why it changes names		18:40
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macmaN	greets allz	18:40
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alterego	Anyone got a sysroot for PR1.3 then? For madde?	18:41
kerio	hmm, maybe i disabled SSU somehow?	18:42
macmaN	is there any reason to assume RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin md5sum is not correct in the MD5SUMS file?	18:42
macmaN	downloaded it twice now, both checksums are different	18:42
alterego	macmaN: your download is crap? :)	18:42
dolp	alterego: i'd like that too..	18:43
kerio	macmaN: third time's the charm!	18:43
alterego	Heh	18:43
macmaN	PR_COMBINED came through correct	18:43
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macmaN	i'm currently trying to solve the red cross sim icon	18:43
Commander1024	is there a howto / hint how to enable and setup meego 1.1 multiboot?	18:43
macmaN	after today's v20 update went half way and then failed on me	18:43
macmaN	i'm assuming i need to flash back to fresh 1.2 now	18:44
chem\|st	macmaN: pr1.3 is available to flash	18:44
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kerio	so...	18:45
kerio	no upgrades available in HAM	18:45
kerio	the fuck, ham	18:45
ahynes1	Commander1024: I'm doing an OTA upgrade right now. Then I'll see if I can get MeeGo to do anthing.	18:45
macmaN	chem\|st: at http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php ?	18:45
kerio	apt tells me i can upgrade 1000 packages	18:45
chem\|st	macmaN: yes	18:45
ahynes1	I've already installed MeeGo and done chroots to it, but haven't been successful with anything more.	18:45
chem\|st	kerio: have you got tuxracer installed?	18:45
ahynes1	(Although I am multibooting NitDroid nicely)	18:45
kerio	no i haven't	18:45
chem\|st	any other gles game?	18:46
kerio	but i did have to remove a metapackage	18:46
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kerio	to upgrade libsdl1.2-mixer	18:46
macmaN	chem\|st: what the hell, i didnt see them in the list like 2 hours ago :)	18:46
chem\|st	macmaN: they are there for now about 45min	18:46
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_berto_	macmaN: 488809ff96a0a05479d692e9f77aeb4f	18:47
_berto_	isn't it correct?	18:47
chem\|st	kerio: I think the sdl1 is also conflicint	18:47
chem\|st	ing	18:47
kerio	then fuck this shit	18:47
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chem\|st	hehe	18:47
kerio	i really need to fix this port	18:47
macmaN	chem\|st: lol, amazing things happen while you step out to the supermarket to get ben&jerrys	18:47
kerio	:<	18:47
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_berto_	I have the file in my hd and both sums match	18:47
chem\|st	macmaN: not only then!	18:47
macmaN	_berto_: did you generate that md5 from test download?	18:47
MohammadAG	alterego, used styleSheet after all lol	18:47
_berto_	macmaN: I had already downloaded that file some time ago	18:48
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alterego	MohammadAG: :P	18:49
macmaN	_berto_: right... well yeah that checksum is correct but im getting different ones, i have no idea how bits get mangled during downloading	18:49
macmaN	_berto_: i'm downloading PR1.3 now anyway	18:49
chem\|st	kerio: just uninstall some of the larger (in terms of program not size) programs	18:49
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DocScrutinizer51	nonsense	18:52
DocScrutinizer51	uninstalling optifies stuff won't help	18:52
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Aranel	How much free space do I need to install PR1.3 ?	18:55
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Aranel	fyi, I got ~23 megabytes :\| It's quite low.	18:55
hawaii_	Maybe you could try and see if it'll work?	18:55
hawaii_	Learning on your own is a fabulous way to learn.	18:55
Aranel	hawaii_: tried, It doesn't.	18:55
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* hardaker crosses fingers and sips his coffee		18:56
hawaii_	well then free up some space.	18:56
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Aranel	hawaii_: I would like to know that "some space" since It's not a great way to describe quantity.	18:57
hawaii_	Over 42MB.	18:57
lbt	\o/ 1.3 :)	18:57
Aranel	thank you =)	18:58
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* hawaii_ giggles		18:58
DocScrutinizer51	du -x /\|sort -n	18:58
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: if it is asking for pc-suite it is a package conflict, otherwise it wont show or tells that there is not enough space	18:59
DocScrutinizer51	es	18:59
lbt	gltron caused problems with a qtlib4-test library	18:59
DocScrutinizer51	yes	18:59
hawaii_	It will show a package conflict if you select the second tab.	19:00
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chem\|st	lbt: known conflicts are qtlib4-test libgles1-sgx-img and one I forgot about already	19:00
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lbt	chem\|st: they came from the gltron game	19:00
macmaN	chem\|st: yeah i think qtlib4-test conflict fucked me up	19:00
lbt	so removing that fixed it	19:01
jani	i wonder why the test lib is in there in the first place..	19:01
chem\|st	hawaii_: not all people reported that it shows a second tab yet	19:01
chem\|st	lbt: or tuxracer	19:01
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lbt	nod	19:01
chem\|st	or some other game	19:01
jani	judging from the name, its the unittest lib thta comes on qt.	19:01
ahynes1	Well OTA really hosed my device... Looks like it may be time for a flash	19:01
chem\|st	I dont know what found me as I never looked into ham...	19:02
lbt	thought you may want to know :) ... maybe to put something on pmo	19:02
agi	apt shows lots of package to upgrade, but Application Manager does not show the update, should I go with flashing?	19:02
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lbt	my OTA went very smoothly after removing that game	19:02
chem\|st	but I was powercycling and used nitdroid instead to find out about the problem	19:02
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agi	(I don't have those packages that seem to conflict)	19:02
Noma_	what is the quickest way to completely delete all user data from n900?	19:02
lbt	Noma_: tread on it	19:03
sivang	will it tell you there's a conflict before you upgrade?	19:03
hawaii_	rm -rf	19:03
chem\|st	agi: does apt show some about 85-90MB?	19:03
chem\|st	or 30 something?	19:03
sivang	or do I need to make sure to remove it before? or is it written at the link infobot knows about?	19:03
* agi check		19:03
agi	s	19:03
sivang	0:-)	19:03
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sivang	DocScrutinizer51: ^	19:03
MohammadAG	was the Qt SDK updated?	19:03
oshin	btw, a funny things to share, every time I contact nokia care, they always point me to maemo.org to fix all the problem myself.	19:04
agi	chem\|st: 1006 upgrade, needs 83MB	19:04
chem\|st	sivang: only in ham, apt will just hold back other packages but the initial maemo5meta will remove those held back and you are screwed	19:04
chem\|st	agi: that sounds about right	19:04
lbt	Noma_: mkfs of some sort on the user partition is probably the quickest. There may be none user data on there	19:04
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oshin	so if i rant something here, you should also contact nokia care not to point me here.	19:04
agi	chem\|st: yep, no remove or no "not upgraded"	19:05
chem\|st	but the noshow in ham makes me wonder if you got enough space in / and /home/user/	19:05
ccooke	ooh. that's new.	19:05
oshin	(just in the sense of humor)	19:05
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ccooke	Just had a popup to tell me the n900 was drawing more power than the USB cable it was plugged into can deliver, and would I please consider plugging it in to the wall :-)	19:05
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macmaN	well PR1.3 md5sum matches fine... third download of VANILLA underway	19:06
chem\|st	agi: disable testing devel and sdk if you wnat to run dist-upgrade	19:06
chem\|st	macmaN: you do not need to flash mmc image!	19:06
chem\|st	macmaN: at least not if you do not want to	19:07
macmaN	chem\|st: i dont? hmmm	19:07
chem\|st	LOL	19:07
agi	chem\|st: I disabled all repos but nokias already. is it ok to upgrade via apt?	19:08
dolp	how do pr1.3 and madde come along? newer sysroots needed or how does it work? i like to use madde to compile my desktop widgets	19:08
chem\|st	macmaN: yes you dont, the mmc image is there if you fupped your emmc or want a clean device (for selling it or something)	19:08
macmaN	chem\|st: youre right, http://www.maemofanatics.com/how-to-flash-your-nokia-n900/ actually doesnt say anything about vanilla :)	19:08
alterego	dolp: need a new sysroot I told you that earlier :P	19:08
chem\|st	agi: will I be hunted if it doesnt and told yes?	19:08
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agi	chem\|st: nope :)	19:09
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chem\|st	agi: let the backup program run ahead all action	19:09
trumee	PR 1.3 is available?	19:09
agi	sure, thanks a lot chem\|st	19:09
fcrochik	was too much to ask to have the "gtk-update-icon-cache" back? or was it fixed some other way? I hate the blue square icons!!!!	19:09
chem\|st	just to make sure you are clean to flash if something went wrong	19:09
dolp	alterego: i must have missed that line :) but good to know. wondering where to get that sysroot. hopefully soon..	19:09
sivang	so chem\|st will screw me if I use it for the upgrade?	19:10
scoobertron	so does pr1.3 have anything cool? the changelog was cryptic (better app support and performance update)	19:10
chem\|st	fcrochik: all icons showed with proper icons when I installed the 120pkgs again...	19:10
trumee	t.m.s is so slow!	19:10
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fcrochik	sivang: DON'T use dist-upgrade! I screwed my device trying :(	19:10
chem\|st	scoobertron: kexec in kernel	19:10
sivang	fcrochik: I never do that, I use HAM	19:11
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DocScrutinizer51	~pr1.3	19:11
infobot	rumour has it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt	19:11
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chem\|st	trumee: t.m.s?	19:11
fcrochik	chem\|st: that is nice!	19:11
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fcrochik	chem\|st: I am still waiting for the phone to finish reinstalling my applications.... but went to check for the gtk-update just in case	19:12
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chem\|st	sivang: does it tell something in ham or does the package just not show?	19:12
trumee	chem\|st: t.m.o	19:12
chem\|st	fcrochik: and the best... apart of some widgets all desktop icons are back where they used to be ;)	19:13
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sivang	right none of the docs mention anything about conflicting packages	19:13
sivang	chem\|st: I did not try yet	19:13
chem\|st	trumee: the pr slashdotted tmo...	19:13
trumee	chem\|st: crap!	19:13
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sivang	chem\|st: it stopped seeing I do not have enough battery	19:13
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chem\|st	sivang: showing you mean	19:14
sivang	hmm sync files with ovi?	19:14
sivang	interesting	19:14
sivang	that is what it says	19:14
sivang	on that blgo post	19:14
DocScrutinizer51	~dict slashdot	19:14
xDaReaperx	Okay i've updated to PR 1.3	19:14
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sivang	chem\|st: yes	19:14
xDaReaperx	now what ?	19:14
infobot	i could not get info from dict.org 'alarm at /home/ibot/infobot/src/Modules/Dict.pl line 42.	19:14
xDaReaperx	i'm restoring backup	19:14
chem\|st	xDaReaperx: nothing...	19:14
xDaReaperx	where's the portait mode ?	19:14
xDaReaperx	lol	19:14
chem\|st	xDaReaperx: you flashed?	19:14
MohammadAG	alterego,	19:15
MohammadAG	styleSheet worked in scratchbox, not on device :/	19:15
alterego	MohammadAG: hrm,	19:15
alterego	Try doing the brush approach	19:15
alterego	I've almost finished setting up scratchbox so I'll be able to have a bit of a play in a bit myself ;)	19:16
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xDaReaperx_	back	19:16
xDaReaperx_	stupid net keeps disconnecting	19:16
jani	chem\|st: there was slashdot entry about 1.3 ?	19:16
xDaReaperx_	i updated using PC SUITE	19:16
macmaN	mkay, successful boot of pr1.3 it seems	19:17
* wmarone kicks off pr1.3 install		19:17
xDaReaperx_	it shows version : 20.2010.36-2.003 < it's PR 1.3 ?	19:17
scoobertron	jani: not that I can see	19:18
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trumee	Crap, UK version isnt released yet!	19:18
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scoobertron	trumee: Im in the uk and updating ota at the moment	19:19
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MohammadAG	alterego, and it didn't work with the palette	19:19
trumee	scoobertron: i dont want to do ota. i prefer to do via the flasher	19:19
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trumee	scoobertron: i cant seen uk version in http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	19:19
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scoobertron	trumee: my bad, I misunderstood.	19:20
alterego	trumee: uk was first last time, so they thought they'd make us wait this time.	19:20
alterego	I use global anyway	19:20
trumee	alterego: i guess i will use global version this time	19:21
alterego	:)	19:21
trumee	alterego: is there any difference between UK and global versions?	19:21
alterego	There really is no difference	19:21
alterego	I just think it effects SSU availability or something.	19:21
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trumee	hmm. USA version is bigger in size compared to Global version.	19:22
alterego	Oh and some functionality, like in some countries you're not allowed FMTX	19:22
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trumee	alterego: Global doesnt have these restrictions?	19:23
trumee	Is there no change in emmc vanilla version, latest one is RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin?	19:24
* wmarone sighs as flash kills firefox on his desktop		19:24
JamesLittler	There is no EMMC image on tablets-dev, do we use the PR1.2 vanilla or will there be a PR1.3 vanilla uploaded at some point (along with the UK varient)?	19:24
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jani	has there been any proper changelog for the release yet ?	19:25
alterego	trumee: hasn't for me.	19:25
alterego	And we have a working scratchbox environment :)	19:25
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xDaReaperx	can't find a changelog	19:26
trumee	scoobertron: update doesnt give me an ota option	19:27
DocScrutinizer51	there's no need to flash eMMC alias VANILLA for pr1.3	19:27
xDaReaperx	i got OTA option > but it was telling me to update using PC suite	19:27
sivang	xDaReaperx: package conflict?	19:27
DocScrutinizer51	if you want to nevertheless, then the old version is just fine	19:27
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sivang	xDaReaperx: qt4-testlib something?	19:28
xDaReaperx	no i installed it using PC Suite any ways	19:28
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xDaReaperx	i uninstalled all QT apps	19:28
trumee	DocScrutinizer51: wont it be better to flash emmc, since settings might have changed for some programs (just a guess)	19:28
xDaReaperx	and QT 4	19:28
scoobertron	trumee: odd - I doubt it would be due to being on a different network or anything like that.	19:28
xDaReaperx	hey i noticed the Application manager has changed a bit	19:29
sivang	trumee: not neccessary, from experience, but it could help some hconf settings getting crazy	19:29
sivang	gcong	19:29
sivang	err	19:29
sivang	gconf	19:29
xDaReaperx	while showing Install Applications you get a choice to install what apps you want	19:29
xDaReaperx	cool	19:29
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trumee	scoobertron: i have 203 version i think	19:29
trumee	scoobertron: yes check the About product page, definitely 203	19:29
* wmarone watches the actual update begin		19:29
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trumee	scoobertron: is your phone with O2/vodaphone ?	19:30
scoobertron	trumee: im in the middle of updating, so I can't check. though I think I am on the global firmware, which might make a difference	19:30
scoobertron	trumee: nope, t-mobile	19:30
jani	xDaReaperx: install multiple apps at once ?	19:31
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trumee	scoobertron: ah! that explains it.	19:33
trumee	scoobertron: global firmware	19:34
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scoobertron	trumee: interesting - this might be another advantage of going global	19:35
Noobmonk3y	hmmmmmmm	19:35
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Noobmonk3y	before i make a stupid mistake, i have win 7 - should i download ovi suite 2.2 or pc suite 7.1	19:36
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Noobmonk3y	(to connect and update my n900 that is)	19:36
xDaReaperx	Back	19:36
xDaReaperx	now i have to install all apps again .. =/	19:37
xDaReaperx	thats like 860 MB	19:37
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, if you're gonna use QTextBrowser, don't update	19:37
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Noobmonk3y	lol!!!	19:37
Noobmonk3y	i'm not :p	19:37
Noobmonk3y	is it buggered?	19:37
Noobmonk3y	but that will bugger healthcheck instantly	19:38
Noobmonk3y	(the old one)	19:38
trumee	chem\|st: cant see PR1.3 on slashdot.	19:38
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xDaReaperx	whats slashdot ?	19:39
Noobmonk3y	but MohammadAG that didnt answer my Q - installing ovi suite	19:39
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xDaReaperx	don't you guys think the app manager is a bit quicker ?	19:39
vltR	hi.. what images do i have to flash my N900 with to have the whole factory state?	19:39
Noobmonk3y	dunno havent update, same speed as it was yesterday for me ;)	19:39
GAN900	Wee	19:39
Noobmonk3y	Woo	19:39
GAN900	That only took 1.5 hours on GPRS.	19:39
Noobmonk3y	updating?	19:39
GAN900	Yeah	19:40
Noobmonk3y	lol :P	19:40
xDaReaperx	took me half an hour	19:40
xDaReaperx	now i need to install all apps again	19:40
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xDaReaperx	is this normal after updates ?	19:40
* GAN900 didn't reflash.		19:40
xDaReaperx	i restored , it shows my app list	19:40
GAN900	If you do them incorrectly, yes.	19:40
jani	xDaReaperx: now there's a question i wasnt expecting =)	19:40
xDaReaperx	ok	19:41
vltR	hi.. what images do i have to flash my N900 with to have the whole factory state?	19:41
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Noobmonk3y	vltR: surely factory state means last sept/october?	19:42
bef0rd	is it just me or the browser feels faster? :P	19:42
Noobmonk3y	or do you mean the current latest firmware but latest clean buld and flash emmc?	19:42
fcrochik	my first casualty of PR13: mycontacts (alternative) backend will fail to load with qt4.7 and will endup deleting all the groups. It is easy to fix by changing the configuration file but has to be done before you run mycontacts for the first time after upgrade	19:42
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, buggered is an understatement	19:43
vltR	Noobmonk3y: i want to make total cleanup	19:43
vltR	so everything to factory state but with updates :)	19:43
Noobmonk3y	total cleanup doesnt answer my question vltR .....	19:43
Noobmonk3y	factory state = original firmware, you would then be asked to update all the way back to 1.3?!	19:44
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, http://oi54.tinypic.com/11s2f0j.jpg	19:44
DocScrutinizer51	~tell vltR about flashing	19:44
wmarone	reboot...	19:44
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vltR	eh but if i update firmware all my apps will be on the phone.. i dont want that	19:45
GAN900	Pro update.	19:45
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GAN900	MicroB fails to load all pages now.	19:45
Arkenoi	seems that themes support on 1.3 differs somehow: some colors are reverted to default	19:46
javispedro	lol	19:46
ahynes1	vltR - I tried an OTA update, but am now doing a reflash.	19:46
ahynes1	Take a look at http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/02/05/how-to-hard-reset-the-n900-to-the-factory-state/	19:46
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ahynes1	Just use the latest flash file and you should be good.	19:46
wmarone	GAN900: worksforme :/	19:46
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* GAN900 stabs Nokia		19:47
GAN900	Transitions are all jittery now, too.	19:47
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chem\|st	jani: don't know but that's more a figurative description it was nokia'ed?!	19:49
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GAN900	Reboot time.	19:50
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jani	chem\|st: ack ok, so you where only talking about the effect, not the site ;)	19:50
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Noobmonk3y	great ovi suite says there is no update :P	19:52
Noobmonk3y	bahhhhhhhhhhhhh	19:52
Noobmonk3y	yet the phone says there is	19:52
chem\|st	jani: yes :)	19:52
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, why not just SSU?	19:52
MohammadAG	or not update at all :P	19:52
Noobmonk3y	ove ther air?	19:52
Noobmonk3y	meh i would need to remove crap :P	19:52
MohammadAG	or fix HealthCheck, as I said, http://oi54.tinypic.com/11s2f0j.jpg :P	19:52
andyph666	how much space we need to be able to update?	19:53
chem\|st	Noobmonk3y: NOS3 tells...	19:53
DocScrutinizer	andyph666: probably ~50MB	19:53
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andyph666	crap i only have 18 :o any way to see what takes up the most space?	19:54
DocScrutinizer	andyph666: at least that's been the magnitude of free space on root for last few SSU	19:54
Noobmonk3y	lol MohammadAG51 !!!	19:55
MohammadAG	du -h \| grep M	19:55
DocScrutinizer	du -x /\|sort -n	19:55
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, black on black ftw	19:55
MohammadAG	o/ Venemo	19:55
Venemo	hey MohammadAG :)	19:55
andyph666	thanks guys	19:55
andyph666	does it break android or titans kernel?	19:56
Noobmonk3y	can't beleive the textbrowser issue didnt get seen and fixed!	19:56
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mikki-kun	does here anybody have a sports-strap for his n900?	19:56
chem\|st	andyph666: android no titans idk	19:57
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Wizzup	5	19:57
mikki-kun	i was curious how well they do... i'd need one for some casual biking so i can always check which way to go	19:57
Wizzup	pardon...	19:57
chem\|st	videocalling died again?	19:57
scoobertron	enter still doesn't work properly when running ncurses stuff in the terminal sob	19:58
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chem\|st	scoobertron: there is a libvte fix attached at the bugreport	19:58
agi	scoobertron: I hate that one :/	19:58
DocScrutinizer	scoobertron: fix it! http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	19:58
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: the community could fix that one, right?	19:58
mikki-kun	scoobertron: try to remap your key to "return" as value and 'remove' that "XK_Enter" stuff which is there...	19:59
GAN900	Kill me	19:59
chem\|st	Venemo: it is...	19:59
GAN900	Still not working	19:59
mikki-kun	GAN900: that is against the law so we cannot follow your order	19:59
Noobmonk3y	Venemo: next year maybe lol	19:59
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chem\|st	Venemo: Noobmonk3y agi https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=2705	20:00
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: well we could do the fix, then release it through MohammadAG's SSU	20:00
chem\|st	maybe it is now another version did not check yet	20:00
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Noobmonk3y	no idea what the SSU is, that whole thing just confused the buggery outta me	20:00
agi	chem\|st: thanks!	20:01
Noobmonk3y	chem\|st: ?	20:01
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, community repository	20:01
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, when Nokia drops support, you'll need one	20:01
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG51: kinda got it, but it just confused me	20:01
chem\|st	agi: if you installed tell if it is still working well	20:01
Noobmonk3y	lol kk	20:01
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, i.e, from today	20:01
DocScrutinizer	agi: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	20:01
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: MohammadAG started his own SSU(=Seamless Software Update) which provides fixes not yet released by Nokia in the open source packages	20:01
agi	DocScrutinizer: yep, reading thru it :)	20:01
* Noobmonk3y is just uninstalling the world off his N900 so i can do the over the air		20:01
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: it did eliminate some serious PR 1.2 bugs back then	20:01
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, no, they really don't have to announce that they dropped support	20:01
MohammadAG	Venemo, hildon-desktop in my repo is newer than the one in PR1.3, makes me sad	20:02
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scoobertron	interesting. apparently I don't have any repos any more. that is going to be fun to do by mand.	20:02
MohammadAG	modest too I think	20:02
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xDaReaperx	Back	20:02
chem\|st	scoobertron: empty repo lists shoed in 1.2 quiet often	20:03
chem\|st	wait a bit longer with opening the list	20:03
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xDaReaperx	is the app manager slow in loading application list still ?	20:03
scoobertron	seems to be	20:04
xDaReaperx	and did they say there would be portait mode ?	20:04
xDaReaperx	portrait *	20:04
DocScrutinizer	xDaReaperx: you bet it is, why shouldn't it?	20:04
scoobertron	didn't see anything in the release notes	20:04
xDaReaperx	does everything load in portrait ?	20:04
MohammadAG	no	20:04
xDaReaperx	nothing does for me	20:05
xDaReaperx	it feels same as PR 1.2	20:05
xDaReaperx	kind of	20:05
agi	chem\|st: seems to work just fine (re: libvte4)	20:05
chem\|st	agi: nice	20:05
DocScrutinizer	agi: thanks! :-)	20:05
agi	thank you both :)	20:06
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scoobertron	reboot fixed the repo thing. emergency over.	20:06
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vltR	what is FIASCO image?	20:06
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* agi puts libvte4 on hold now		20:07
ZogG	lol	20:07
vltR	i have to flash FIASCO image before flashing emmc... ?	20:07
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chem\|st	agi: it says incompatible application package	20:08
tybollt	there a changelog yet?	20:08
agi	?	20:08
ZogG	so i did aptget -dist-update and in the middle of updating phone turns off and can't turn on - only Nokia on white screen. though ntdroid boots fine. i smell flashing =) good i just backedup before	20:08
DocScrutinizer	vltR: My suggestion is to do it other way round: VANILLA first, then COMBINED	20:08
chem\|st	apt-get install --force-reinstall tybollt	20:09
agi	chem\|st: http://paste.debian.net/98064/	20:09
xDaReaperx	time to start tweeting about the PR 1.3 , so it gets into the news media blogs	20:09