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| Venemo_N810 | good night guys | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
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| RST38h | Tonight: http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4867/img0161i.jpg | 00:23 |
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| ieatlint | wow, what city is that? | 00:25 |
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| javispedro | simcity | 00:25 |
| kerio | TONIGHT | 00:26 |
| kerio | YOU | 00:26 |
| GAN900 | kerio, Hand Banana! | 00:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lo GAN900 | 00:29 |
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| ieatlint | no more banana | 00:29 |
| Goliath23 | can someone please try to install buliscores from extras-devel and tell me if it works? | 00:30 |
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| TermanaDesire | Morning | 00:37 |
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| javispedro | could anyone confirm me that on this page : | 00:37 |
| javispedro | http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers | 00:37 |
| javispedro | "Sitting on table(left edge down)" is wrong? | 00:37 |
| lcuk | hiya TermanaDesire | 00:37 |
| javispedro | oh | 00:38 |
| javispedro | disregard that, I think I'm swapping this somewhere.. | 00:38 |
| lcuk | javispedro, yeah you are i just confirmed it | 00:39 |
| javispedro | thanks lcuk! | 00:39 |
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| lcuk | when sat on desk on its stand would be another one: 0,-450,-900 (ish) | 00:41 |
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| orospakr | so, with almost half a week with my N900, I've got to say that one of the biggest weaknesses is the lack of hardware navigation buttons like Android mandates. (Home, Back, End, and Call in particular. Menu would be good too) | 00:41 |
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| ieatlint | ah, what a great time to live in... i fill out a form on a website, and 30min later unhealthy food is delivered to my door | 00:42 |
| RST38h | javis: accelerometer docs are correct | 00:43 |
| lcuk | ieatlint, wow, you work too hard! | 00:43 |
| * SpeedEvil has done 99.9% of grocery shopping in last year online. | 00:43 | |
| ieatlint | lcuk: dude, i have to walk all the way to the door when they knock | 00:43 |
| lcuk | for thousands of years mankind has been able to merely shout for dinner from his wife :P | 00:43 |
| lcuk | you must be mixing up the hunter gathering with the cooking ;) | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | With the aid of wget, awk and friends to sort by price. | 00:44 |
| javispedro | yeah, I'm starting to become crazy after rotating and rotating and rescaling stuff | 00:44 |
| ieatlint | oh, i do that with my gf... but she's not here right now | 00:44 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am afraid that is gone now, too. | 00:44 |
| lcuk | RST38h, yes | 00:44 |
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| * RST38h mourns decline of humanity, etc | 00:45 | |
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| RST38h | sleep time | 00:47 |
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| ieatlint | ooh, 2.6.36 is out | 00:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Completely random query. I'm looking for some stock/book-keeping package, that will enable me to track both budget, and stuff like how many bean-cans I have, and how much stock I have at average use-rate of them. | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't expect this to be on maemo - but is there a generic linux package? | 00:55 |
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| sivang | ArGGu^^: same here, been busy again with day job to heavily. I'm considering though only concentrating in mobile development and working on meego stuff.. | 01:02 |
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| nox- | moin | 01:05 |
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| corecode | oh wow, seems something in gtalk changed; can't get a connection with my n900 anymore | 01:12 |
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| corecode | anybody using gtalk to n900? | 01:12 |
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| crashanddie | turn wifi on. | 01:15 |
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| ArGGu^^ | sivang ok | 01:18 |
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| sivang | crashanddie: it is more than that- I've been having trouble connecting to gmail the last week or so, even though everything was set network wise. | 01:24 |
| sivang | crashanddie: I wonder if some protocol patch is neded. | 01:24 |
| sivang | needed. | 01:24 |
| crashanddie | corecode == sivang? | 01:24 |
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| sivang | crashanddie: hrm no :) but I just noted I also experienced this issue lately | 01:26 |
| crashanddie | not had any issues here | 01:26 |
| crashanddie | probably your ISP/mobile provider doing some foo. | 01:27 |
| sivang | crashanddie: it does seem to be better through 3G data , so yes :) | 01:27 |
| sivang | crashanddie: still take a while to login, but eventually succeeds. | 01:27 |
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| sivang | crashanddie: how's that project going that you told me about? | 01:30 |
| * sivang is hacking on a pyhon based key/value store with plugin backend architecture | 01:31 | |
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| javispedro | oh, yet another company using the maemo.org (old) logo | 01:43 |
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| javispedro | as maemo logo | 01:44 |
| javispedro | http://www.dataviz.com/ | 01:44 |
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| TermanaDesire | Well... | 01:46 |
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| TermanaDesire | My n900 is dead | 01:46 |
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| TermanaDesire | Someone in the family allowed it to take a swim for a while it seems | 01:47 |
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| ilius | I can not find Maep cache files anyway!! | 01:50 |
| ilius | But thats claet | 01:50 |
| ilius | thats clear it does not download maps more than one time | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | TermanaDesire: :( | 01:51 |
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| TermanaDesire | SpeedEvil - I am a sad panda. And I don't think drying it out will help. The sim tray is discoloured so, I think in the water for too long | 01:55 |
| TermanaDesire | It was in* | 01:55 |
| sivang | TermanaDesire: :/ | 01:56 |
| sivang | TermanaDesire: if I get to work for a major phone vendor and its software products I promis to buy you a new one and send it to you | 01:56 |
| sivang | :) | 01:56 |
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| TermanaDesire | Ha ha thanks sivang ;p | 01:57 |
| sivang | TermanaDesire: although this things annoys me greatly, just as someone bumped into me in Munich and trashed the iris of the N900 camera and it is now squicky and broken, still you have to udnerstand this are just things :) and people are more important, although those amazing devices can help keep you company when people are not avail or failed you :)| | 01:58 |
| TermanaDesire | I know some people that will. Be happy though | 01:58 |
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| sivang | TermanaDesire: that will buy you a new N900 ? | 01:58 |
| TermanaDesire | Desire users. Since I'll be making sure meego works good on it now, instead of just my half hearted port | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | :( | 01:59 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: ? | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | ^ | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | TermanaDesire: remove batery *immediately* | 02:01 |
| sivang | hey DocScrutinizer | 02:02 |
| TermanaDesire | DocScrutinizer: already have | 02:02 |
| Pavlov_ | i used to have a calendar synced using exchange sync on my n900 | 02:02 |
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| Pavlov_ | but i apparently don't anymore | 02:02 |
| Pavlov_ | but i have all the stuff in my calendar still | 02:02 |
| Pavlov_ | whats the best way to delete all of that stuff? | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | TermanaDesire: then dry the device for at least 2 weeks, at a warm place | 02:02 |
| sivang | its alive!!!! | 02:03 |
| sivang | or can be brought, alive | 02:03 |
| sivang | at least. | 02:03 |
| * sivang feels like Frenkenstein | 02:03 | |
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| TermanaDesire | sivang: Ha ha. Well I hope this works and brings it alive | 02:04 |
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| TermanaDesire | DocScrutinizer: okey dokey thanks. Now to find somewhere warm | 02:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TermanaDesire: was the water sufficiently clean? or you should really rinse the device with demineralized water | 02:06 |
| javispedro | ouch, sorry to hear that. | 02:06 |
| TermanaDesire | DocScrutinizer: not sure. I woke up and found it out of the water | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | which water? | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | a muddy lake with fish and green? | 02:07 |
| TermanaDesire | DocScrutinizer: I don't know, it wasn't near water when I found it | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | a toilet with cleaner chemicals? | 02:08 |
| javispedro | magic water! | 02:08 |
| TermanaDesire | No, it would have been some sort of sink water I would say | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TermanaDesire: well, usually electronic devices have no water soluble substances inside that can break from water. It's just the corrosion from water + voltage, or the dirt in the water remaining between contacts after H2O evaporated. So if you're removing all voltage sources fast enough, and thoroughly dry the device, and there's no residues left from dirt in the water, there should be a fair chance to recover it | 02:11 |
| corecode | sivang: yea | 02:12 |
| corecode | sivang: something is fishy | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | speakers etc might suffer | 02:13 |
| corecode | wtf it works | 02:13 |
| corecode | from linux | 02:14 |
| corecode | gah. | 02:14 |
| corecode | maybe the windows thing doesn't work | 02:14 |
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| pupnik | http://blogs.sun.com/brendan/entry/unusual_disk_latency Unusual Disk Latency discovered in server room. (no spoilers) | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 02:42 |
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| nox- | old but still funny :) | 02:47 |
| nox- | http://www.serverwatch.com/news/article.php/3889516/Tilera-Quanta-Bank-on-Low-Power-High-Density-Web-Servers.htm | 02:47 |
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| * DocScrutinizer sighs, just for the sigh | 03:17 | |
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| javispedro | http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/apples-mac-app-store-review-guidelines-posted-will-photoshop/ | 03:19 |
| javispedro | virtually as restricting as iphone's, or even worse | 03:20 |
| javispedro | "no games of russian roulette" wtf?? | 03:20 |
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| nox- | maybe that relates to chatroulette? :) | 03:20 |
| javispedro | also, you cannot portray apple as an enemy in your shooting game =) | 03:21 |
| nox- | haha | 03:22 |
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| ieatlint | oh god, they're doing it all again | 03:23 |
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| * nox- wonders when osx will need to be `jailbroken' too... | 03:23 | |
| ieatlint | the anti-competitive clause... "Apps that look similar to Apple Products or apps bundled on the Mac, including the Finder, iChat, iTunes, and Dashboard, will be rejected" | 03:23 |
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| ieatlint | nox-: that's just scaremongering... there is absolutely no discussion or suggestion from anything even kind of reliable to suggest that apple will restrict software like that on osx | 03:24 |
| TermanaDesire | nox-: what do you think they are doing it for | 03:24 |
| TermanaDesire | As soon as enough apps are on the store and eeveryone is rosy | 03:25 |
| ieatlint | they're doing it because it's an awesome way to make money -- look at steam | 03:25 |
| TermanaDesire | Bam | 03:25 |
| TermanaDesire | They will lock it down sand make you their bitch | 03:25 |
| TermanaDesire | And* | 03:25 |
| ieatlint | intel just launched a near-identical (but less restricted in various ways) version for windows last month | 03:25 |
| TermanaDesire | Everything g* | 03:25 |
| ieatlint | and are prepping for a linux release in the near future (meego target) | 03:26 |
| * TermanaDesire kills virtual keyboard | 03:26 | |
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| ieatlint | i will say i like this rule: 7.6 In general, the more expensive your app, the more thoroughly we will review it. | 03:26 |
| javispedro | mental note: make my first os x avail on app store for $0 | 03:27 |
| javispedro | *my first os x virus =) | 03:27 |
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| ieatlint | i have to say, i like that intel allows people to use gpl software in their app store (including handling the source code distribution for you) | 03:29 |
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| ieatlint | allows people to write an app under the gpl, and release it for $10 | 03:30 |
| nox- | do they allow bsdl/mit/boostl too? | 03:30 |
| ieatlint | i didn't ask... would need to look it up | 03:30 |
| nox- | ok | 03:31 |
| ieatlint | i would assume bsd at least | 03:31 |
| TermanaDesire | nox-: they aren't copyleft so it doesn't matter | 03:31 |
| ieatlint | i think they also said lgpl | 03:31 |
| * DocScrutinizer powers up the MTHEL array and programs target identifying patterns for any sw coming from Cupertino for maemo | 03:31 | |
| ieatlint | well, they aren't copyleft, but there is the question if they'll handle source distribution for you without it being gpl, and display licences as required to end users | 03:32 |
| nox- | TermanaDesire, ok | 03:32 |
| * DocScrutinizer melts down a BTS tower with one of the MTHELs, just for the fun of it, and to test once more | 03:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, we got 6 TV chan here since ~1988, including RTL (RadioTelevisionLuxemburg). Some couple a' years ago all went DVBT and more chan and also actually less quality (artifacts etc). Now they claim they want to harvest the "digital payback" and use channels 60+ for some sorta weird WiMAX. RTL transponder is in that range, so now no more RTL over the air, first time since >20y. Hooray for technical progress | 03:40 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: wouldn't be worse than here, where they have basically restandarized "national" dvb-t three times already and aiming for the fourth | 03:44 |
| javispedro | .... requiring new decoders where firmware was not updatable / decoder cpu not powerful enough ... | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't it nice how they always try to get the best for us (or was it *from* us?) | 03:44 |
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| javispedro | that's 2010 technical progress for ya! | 03:46 |
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| ieatlint | heh, they've only ever changed the broadcast tv format once here since it was first introduced | 03:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you know the movie "Contact" with Jodie Foster? | 03:46 |
| javispedro | one of my favourites | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | in 10 years, when they answer, nobody here will have the equipment to decode :-S | 03:47 |
| javispedro | haha | 03:47 |
| ieatlint | :P | 03:47 |
| javispedro | good point actually. | 03:47 |
| javispedro | a year ago or so I found a floppy of mine with .pcx pictures on it | 03:48 |
| javispedro | were not a OSS user, I would've had a hard time opening them... | 03:48 |
| ieatlint | i like that .. "we can't change the tv broadcast format again! how will we be able to understand the aliens when they talk to us if we do?!" | 03:48 |
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| ieatlint | i've heard politicians say weirder things though | 03:49 |
| javispedro | for sciencie! | 03:49 |
| javispedro | bah. | 03:49 |
| javispedro | seriouuuusllllllllllly... why couldn't Nokia get some commercial game devs on board. | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | cause commercial grade devels aren't allowed at Nokia :-P | 03:51 |
| javispedro | the 30th most popular games could all be ported in, like, 3 minutes. they're already ported from random weirdo mobile phones | 03:51 |
| javispedro | the pre does not have any drm at all, even the store is a damn debian repository | 03:51 |
| javispedro | so what's the excuse?? | 03:51 |
| ieatlint | too niche | 03:52 |
| ieatlint | maemo has reached end of life on the n900 | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | *differentiation* X-P | 03:52 |
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| javispedro | and guess what? the pre 1 is getting webos2 | 03:52 |
| * javispedro has a "lack of faith moment"... hopefully there's no darth vader nearby to strangle him | 03:53 | |
| * DocScrutinizer snaeks up behind javispedro | 03:53 | |
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| ieatlint | what stll most bothers me is a lack of decent maps | 03:55 |
| * javispedro curses and blasphemes | 03:56 | |
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| javispedro | $ cp -r /some/nfs/big/dir/ . | 03:56 |
| javispedro | Bus error | 03:56 |
| TermanaDesire | Just on the subject on TV broadcasts - here in Australia all analog TV is being switched off in December | 03:56 |
| TermanaDesire | Merry Christmas! | 03:56 |
| javispedro | TermanaDesire: and a happy new analog^W digital year! | 03:57 |
| ieatlint | TermanaDesire: happened here in the states recently | 03:57 |
| javispedro | how the fsck can a nfs read fail with bus error. | 03:57 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! Is anybody here using pidgin from -testing? | 04:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: depends on what a buserror really means | 04:22 |
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| MrPPS | hey, just wondering how you hit the "Alt" key in the terminal of the N900? i'm running irssi, and can't seem to change the channel using alt (have the same trouble using Finch) | 04:27 |
| MrPPS | thanks | 04:27 |
| Noma_ | Esc is also meta-key | 04:27 |
| MrPPS | so just hitting esc + 2 say would do it? | 04:28 |
| MrPPS | excellent | 04:30 |
| MrPPS | that works | 04:30 |
| MrPPS | thanks so much | 04:30 |
| MrPPS | ! | 04:30 |
| javispedro | NASA finds gold on the Moon! | 04:32 |
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| * javispedro is surprised at the sgx's power... hmpf. | 04:43 | |
| ieatlint | ;) | 04:43 |
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| TermanaDesire | javispedro: that's the power of sgx | 04:53 |
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| javispedro | http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/preenv/shots/game3.png (going to remove it soon...) | 04:53 |
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| TermanaDesire | javispedro: I meant all the quits - anyhow what game is that? :p | 04:56 |
| javispedro | I don't even know the full name =) Some Pre game. | 04:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | How is pre stuff sold - is there a marketplace? | 05:00 |
| javispedro | yep | 05:00 |
| javispedro | behind the scenes it is basically a repo | 05:01 |
| javispedro | ovi store-style. | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:01 |
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| javispedro | There are also homebrew apps -- including someone's port of my own SNES emulator -- but of course the screenshots aren't as flashy. | 05:03 |
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| javispedro | No wonder Ari Jaaksi went to Palm/HP =) | 05:05 |
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| raster | maaa | 05:54 |
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| Termana | good morning raster | 05:57 |
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| raster | Termana: and a fine top 'o tha morning to ya! | 05:58 |
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| vdv | have anybody tried to get jdk or jre on n900 running? or is it really impossible? | 06:21 |
| jpinx-eeepc | vdv: haven't tried yet - but it's on my todo list ;) | 06:22 |
| vdv | jpinx-eeepc, do you maybe use some usenet reader? | 06:24 |
| ShadowJK | i thought I saw a jre in extras | 06:24 |
| ShadowJK | extras-* | 06:24 |
| ShadowJK | or atleast on tmo | 06:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | nope - for a money market application | 06:24 |
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| pigeon | there's icetea6 in the repo, which is a jre | 07:35 |
| pigeon | javac is included too in fact... | 07:35 |
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| pigeon | sorry, icedtea6, is the package name. | 07:37 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Just out of curiosity, does talk.maemo.org stop responding once in a while for you guys? | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | there's a backup script problem i think | 08:46 |
| RobbieThe1st | That makes sense - CPU overload = no connections being handled? | 08:46 |
| sejo | is maemo still being developed? like bugfixes etc? | 08:47 |
| sejo | or is all the work put in meego? | 08:47 |
| Stskeeps | yes, there's bugfixes still but not features probably | 08:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | It depends on who's doing it. There are definately third-party developers still working on it. Nokia however... It's as Stskeeps said. | 08:48 |
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| sejo | k | 08:49 |
| sejo | thx | 08:49 |
| * RST38h moos at Stskeeps | 08:49 | |
| Stskeeps | moo | 08:49 |
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| sejo | hmm tablets-dev down? | 08:50 |
| sejo | need the EMMC image | 08:50 |
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| sejo | going for a full reset bugger still gives internal errors | 08:51 |
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| sejo | An error occurred while processing your request. | 08:54 |
| sejo | Reference #97.c959d50.1287726738.5e594b6 | 08:54 |
| Stskeeps | internal errors? overclocked? | 08:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:54 |
| sejo | for http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 08:54 |
| sejo | Stskeeps: nope | 08:54 |
| sejo | that's for the website | 08:54 |
| sejo | I get internal errors with the sharing plugins | 08:54 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: troll | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: no, seriously, people have been getting emmc bad sectors cos of overclocking | 08:55 |
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| sejo | basicly if i can't get it working today I'll switch to another phone (really need it) | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:55 |
| sejo | I didn't overclock my n900 | 08:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | What error are you running into, specifically? | 08:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | And, how to reproduce? | 08:56 |
| sejo | RobbieThe1st: Internal Error: Application "Settings" closed | 08:56 |
| sejo | when trying to add a sharing account | 08:56 |
| slonopotamus | i get good mmc sectors cos of overclocking | 08:56 |
| slonopotamus | and clear screen view :P | 08:56 |
| slonopotamus | oh, and good 3g connection | 08:56 |
| sejo | RobbieThe1st: go to settings, then sharing accounts, add whatever you want and it crashes | 08:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'll try | 08:56 |
| slonopotamus | and OC makes my daughter sleep longer (she stops waking up at 6am if i overclock my n900) | 08:57 |
| sejo | I'm trying the twitter one (that uses the pixelpipe) | 08:57 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: those events have similar connection to OC as mmc bad blocks | 08:57 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I don't see any twitter sharing account on mine | 08:58 |
| RobbieThe1st | slonopotamus: Yea, I don't have any issues either. | 08:58 |
| sejo | been running into it for the last week | 08:58 |
| sejo | RobbieThe1st: it's in the app manager | 08:58 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, I'm guessing there's a glitch with that specific plugin then | 08:59 |
| RobbieThe1st | Probably -not- your N900 | 08:59 |
| sejo | RobbieThe1st: you get the same error with the ovi plugin or the flickr plugin | 08:59 |
| sejo | there are bugs about it | 09:00 |
| sejo | with full traces | 09:00 |
| sejo | waiting for them to be fixed | 09:00 |
| RobbieThe1st | Huh - I don't; I just get "input username and password" | 09:00 |
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| RobbieThe1st | And as I don't have any accounts with any of those vendors... | 09:00 |
| sejo | RobbieThe1st:https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10089 | 09:01 |
| povbot | Bug 10089: Cannot create Flickr sharing account: "Internal error. Application 'Settings' closed." | 09:01 |
| sejo | it's the same error | 09:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | So, point is, it's a glitch in the software. Flashing your eMMC's not going to help | 09:02 |
| RobbieThe1st | You can try installing a 3rd-party application that does something similar, or just go without | 09:02 |
| sejo | bleh | 09:02 |
| sejo | new phone then | 09:03 |
| sejo | it's a shame I adore my n900 | 09:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | What the hell do you -need- twitter for anyway? | 09:03 |
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| sejo | RobbieThe1st: we have an internal status.net install (client I work for) and I need to upload certain pics to it | 09:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | Especially considering you have things like TweeGo, or just a web-browser... | 09:03 |
| sejo | tweego doesn't work with pi.pe | 09:04 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm... You could always ask about that in the TweeGo topic on the forums | 09:04 |
| RobbieThe1st | Or, what about simply using the browser? | 09:05 |
| sejo | RobbieThe1st: that's a drag to upload pics | 09:05 |
| sejo | that's how i do it now | 09:05 |
| sejo | but it takes way too much time | 09:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm... I'd make a post on the forums | 09:05 |
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| sejo | what for? there are already posts about the error, no fix resulted in that | 09:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | Being a Linux phone, I'm sure someone would have a solution like "download this script, then run ./twitterupload.sh ./path/to/upload/ | 09:06 |
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| RobbieThe1st | The N900's greatness is in its -non- nokia stuff. Nokia, honestly, didn't do very well in making it. | 09:07 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hm... | 09:08 |
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| johnx | they did great with the hardware | 09:08 |
| psycho_oreos | somewhat | 09:08 |
| johnx | I love the "well our SoC supports these things, so let's make sure our phone supports them." | 09:08 |
| sejo | I like the phone but it's weird i'd use to be able to do the pi.pe uploads | 09:09 |
| johnx | the N900 is like an example of everything an OMAP3 will support | 09:09 |
| RobbieThe1st | http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Upload_Photos_to_TwitPic_with_Python_for_Symbian_Devices is this sort of what you want? | 09:09 |
| sejo | that might help yes | 09:10 |
| sejo | still annoyed that the software provided doesn't work | 09:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | You can try downloading and extracting it; Its Python, so it'd work | 09:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | So do the other 10,000+ people complaining on the forums | 09:11 |
| johnx | sejo, by "software provided" you mean the 3rd-part sharing plugin? | 09:11 |
| RobbieThe1st | That too... | 09:11 |
| sejo | no even the flickr one doesn't work | 09:11 |
| sejo | nor the ovi one | 09:11 |
| johnx | works for me (tm) | 09:11 |
| johnx | I wonder if there's not something else going on ... | 09:11 |
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| sejo | there probably is that's why I wanted to flash it completely | 09:12 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, you can always try | 09:13 |
| johnx | if it were me (and I actually cared about the sharing plugin, and really wanted to prove where the bug was), I'd: 1) reflash firmware and eMMC 2) beat on the flickr plugin before even restoring your data | 09:13 |
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| johnx | then restore your data and play with flickr more, then install the twitter plugin | 09:14 |
| sejo | johnx: that was the goal but I can't download the EMMC image | 09:14 |
| johnx | maybe reverse those last two steps ... | 09:14 |
| johnx | why not? | 09:14 |
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| sejo | ach now it works | 09:14 |
| sejo | server gave an error | 09:14 |
| johnx | you're welcome :) | 09:14 |
| sejo | Reference #97.c959d50.1287726738.5e594b6 | 09:14 |
| sejo | did you fix the server? | 09:14 |
| johnx | my presence causes people to not be able to reproduce problems :) | 09:14 |
| johnx | nah, I don't work for nokia | 09:15 |
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| sejo | LOL | 09:15 |
| johnx | my job isn't to fix things, just take the credit | 09:15 |
| sejo | hehe | 09:15 |
| ieatlint | i think i might know you then | 09:16 |
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| sejo | so first the combined flash then the EMMC right? | 09:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | Wait an hour or so | 09:16 |
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| johnx | sejo, flash one, than the other without rebooting | 09:17 |
| sejo | RobbieThe1st: eh? | 09:17 |
| sejo | k | 09:17 |
| johnx | as long as you don't reboot in between it doesn't matter | 09:17 |
| sejo | k | 09:17 |
| RobbieThe1st | I assume it's a temporary priblem | 09:17 |
| johnx | now here's an interesting thing, while playing with the sharing setup I managed to cause the same error as in the bug report | 09:17 |
| sejo | it's been giving me problems since beginning of the week | 09:17 |
| johnx | but I can't repro it ... | 09:17 |
| sejo | johnx: try to add an account, delete it and add it again... it will fail | 09:18 |
| johnx | nope | 09:18 |
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| sejo | hmm | 09:19 |
| johnx | deleted, re-added, validated (ovi) | 09:19 |
| johnx | I don't want to risk losing my flickr profile and needing to reflash :) | 09:19 |
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| johnx | you could also probably add your account through gconf | 09:20 |
| johnx | or clean up the settings related to it | 09:20 |
| sejo | johnx: if I found it I could indeed | 09:20 |
| johnx | want a hint? | 09:20 |
| sejo | sure | 09:20 |
| sejo | i deleted the .signond/userinfo.xml | 09:21 |
| sejo | but that didn't help | 09:21 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hm... can it be manually entered via vim? | 09:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | Being a Linux system, I assume so, if you can find the right config file | 09:23 |
| sejo | well I looked at it... but it was all garbled | 09:23 |
| sejo | no xml in there | 09:23 |
| johnx | wild. looks like it's really config'ed on disk instead of in gconf | 09:23 |
| sejo | johnx: but where? | 09:24 |
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| sejo | in the signond? | 09:24 |
| johnx | dunno | 09:24 |
| johnx | but it's not in gconf | 09:24 |
| sejo | nope it isn't | 09:24 |
| johnx | I did: gconftool -R / | grep -C10 -i sharing | 09:24 |
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| sejo | i should strace it | 09:24 |
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| johnx | I found /apps/maemo/sharing with a key (?) "done = true" | 09:25 |
| johnx | but that doesn't make much sense | 09:25 |
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| johnx | also, I don't have a .signond at all | 09:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | Ask Sts? | 09:25 |
| sejo | hmm | 09:25 |
| johnx | I have a .signon but its contents are "user_db.xml" (which is binary) | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | i don't know jack | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:25 |
| sejo | yeah that's the one | 09:26 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, nah. I need him to get back to work on MeeGo | 09:26 |
| * johnx cracks the whipe | 09:26 | |
| johnx | s/whipe/whip/ | 09:26 |
| johnx | <- tired | 09:26 |
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| johnx | wow. I have no idea what kind of data is contained in that file ... | 09:27 |
| johnx | and neither does the 'file' command on my desktop | 09:27 |
| johnx | soooo, good luck. I've got work stuff to do, but if you need me to double-check something you can ping me | 09:28 |
| sejo | johnx: k thx anyway | 09:28 |
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| Myrtti | *yawn* | 09:30 |
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| lardman|home | morning chaps | 09:38 |
| lardman|home | anyone know if QtMobility contacts works on the N900 contacts data yet? | 09:38 |
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| jarkkom | lardman|home, at least it's supposed to: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0/#platform-compatibility | 09:43 |
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| sejo | johnx: after full reflash everything works | 10:10 |
| sejo | now to reinstall the apps i had :p | 10:10 |
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| johnx | sejo, darn. I wished I asked you to do a dump of gconf's /apps/maemo/sharing | 10:20 |
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| crashanddie_ | morning geeks | 10:27 |
| sejo | arf | 10:28 |
| sejo | morning | 10:28 |
| crashanddie_ | hey sejo, how are you? | 10:28 |
| sejo | johnx: if i ever reflash it i'll do it | 10:28 |
| crashanddie_ | apologies for yesterday, btw | 10:28 |
| sejo | crashanddie: good, finally got the twitpic stuff working | 10:28 |
| crashanddie_ | integration with the API? | 10:28 |
| sejo | crashanddie: no apologies needed... | 10:28 |
| crashanddie_ | Or with the media sharing thingie on N900? | 10:28 |
| sejo | crashanddie: media sharing | 10:28 |
| crashanddie_ | nice | 10:29 |
| sejo | it doesn't crash anymore a full reset (EMMC and COMBINED) was needed though | 10:29 |
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| luccini | helo | 10:45 |
| luccini | i have a queation this tweak flah ive reading about its bad isnt it? | 10:45 |
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| luccini | is there an alt way to update flah for maemo 5? | 10:46 |
| ieatlint | no | 10:46 |
| luccini | adobe or marcomedia | 10:46 |
| luccini | i see | 10:46 |
| ieatlint | or rather, yes, it's bad; no, there's no way to upgrade it | 10:46 |
| Myrtti | o___0 | 10:46 |
| luccini | its a shame for a portable computer to not be able to update flash player | 10:47 |
| ieatlint | blame adobe | 10:47 |
| luccini | or nokia witch lock it rite? | 10:47 |
| ieatlint | they don't release an updated linux arm version, and we don't get it | 10:47 |
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| Myrtti | lock what? | 10:48 |
| ieatlint | no, there is no lock of any kind like that on the phone | 10:48 |
| luccini | well as far as i know nokia they lock things like flash players on most phones from being updateing | 10:48 |
| luccini | so is there no marcomedia as alt? | 10:49 |
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| luccini | or shockwave | 10:49 |
| psycho_oreos | macromedia was bought by adobe | 10:49 |
| ieatlint | i can't speak to symbian, but on maemo, there is no lock like that, at all | 10:49 |
| luccini | w\e they are called | 10:49 |
| luccini | i see | 10:49 |
| Myrtti | Flash is a proprietary software from Adobe. If they don't compile one for ARM, then there is no Flash. | 10:49 |
| luccini | sad | 10:49 |
| ieatlint | were adobe to release an updated linux arm flash player, it would work on the phone, with or without nokia's consent | 10:49 |
| Myrtti | they've done one ages ago, that's the one you've go | 10:49 |
| Myrtti | t | 10:49 |
| psycho_oreos | and no, you can upgrade flash if you can compile the source for it which Adobe will never offer for free | 10:50 |
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| psycho_oreos | adobe-flashplayer is actually visible inside installed packages | 10:50 |
| luccini | i see same thing happends with microsoft silverlight | 10:51 |
| luccini | some pages needs silvelight witch phones dont support | 10:52 |
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| luccini | and there isnt a browser that has flash plugins that be able to update? | 10:53 |
| luccini | like firefox on a windows pc | 10:53 |
| psycho_oreos | windows pc runs on x86 architecture which is completely different from N900's ARM architecture | 10:54 |
| Myrtti | the problem is the flash, not the browser | 10:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | and no there's no real alternatives as mentioned previously | 10:54 |
| ebzzry | Hi! Is the current fcamera in -testing compatible with Titan's kernel? | 10:54 |
| luccini | well as far as i kniow firefox has its own flah player rite? | 10:54 |
| Myrtti | no? | 10:54 |
| luccini | flash* | 10:54 |
| * RST38h sighs | 10:54 | |
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| RST38h | let us just make "flash player" a bannable subject already... | 10:55 |
| luccini | lol | 10:55 |
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| luccini | its just a need to have app | 10:55 |
| luccini | its needed in most webpages | 10:55 |
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| ieatlint | to be pedantic, browsers don't update flash | 10:56 |
| kerio | ebzzry: i think so | 10:56 |
| RST38h | luccini: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37922 | 10:56 |
| luccini | i see | 10:56 |
| Myrtti | isn't gnash or swfdec compilable on ARM? | 10:56 |
| ebzzry | kerio: the last time I tried it, it almost bricked my device. | 10:56 |
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| ieatlint | anyway, you're talking to a bunch of people who have no control | 10:56 |
| RST38h | luccini: Here is a thread for you. Make sure you read the whole thread. Somewhere in the middle, there are instructions on how to get latest flashplayer 10 work on your N900. | 10:56 |
| RST38h | luccini: Make sure you read the whole thing before you come back here with questions about flashplayer, ok? | 10:57 |
| luccini | lol | 10:59 |
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| ebzzry | kerio: Do you have things that would confirm that it is indeed safe? | 10:59 |
| luccini | to many pages and not enuough time to read | 11:00 |
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| RST38h | You think we have enough time to hear the same sentiments again and again here? | 11:01 |
| psycho_oreos | indeed the impatient gets really desperate and lazy | 11:01 |
| luccini | well if you guys know it then make a tut for it | 11:01 |
| psycho_oreos | biting the hand that feeds | 11:01 |
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| luccini | if you dont wanna support oters with maemo then you shouldnt be here rite? | 11:02 |
| achipa | Let's keep it short. Flash must die, not because of the tech, but because of how it's run. Qt Quick is the new Flash. EOT. | 11:02 |
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| Termana | achipa, agreed that Flash must die. | 11:03 |
| psycho_oreos | you obviously haven't been here long enough luccini.. you don't go complaining when someone gave you a pointer | 11:03 |
| X-Fade | The main reason for flash still to exist is playing web video. If browsers finally will handle this themselves, we should be ok. :) | 11:03 |
| Termana | Also, you *can* *cough* get an update for Flash for OMAP3 *cough*. But if you can't find it yourself, I'm not helping you. | 11:03 |
| X-Fade | But that one is still not using hardware accell, right? | 11:04 |
| Termana | X-Fade, no it's not afaik | 11:04 |
| X-Fade | Pretty useless then :) | 11:04 |
| Termana | X-Fade, but I mean, that doesn't put you in a worse position than before :p | 11:05 |
| luccini | well i should thank you i guess seems its going to take a couple of days but ok i just might get a beter phone next time | 11:05 |
| X-Fade | No, but doesn't improve much either. | 11:05 |
| Termana | (Since Flash isn't accelerated on the n900 to begin with IIRC) | 11:05 |
| Termana | X-Fade, I think people are only looking for Flash 10 for the fact that sites are flicking the switch on Flash 9 | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | Well, it isn't accelerated on other phones either. | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, but the version number hack works fine for that. | 11:06 |
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| Termana | X-Fade, except for sites that use new Flash 10 features | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | Indeed, but are there much of those out there? | 11:06 |
| Termana | X-Fade, not really sure. I disable flash most of the time for anything I touch :p | 11:07 |
| RST38h | achipa: Just yesterday, the subject of using QtQuick for somethign useful came up on #meego. Looks like it is a bit too early for that. | 11:07 |
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| RST38h | Termana: It would probably be fun to make a survey of all these Flash-loving Maemo users, asking them for URLs they need Flash10 to access | 11:09 |
| achipa | RST38h: I'm not saying QtQuick is already there right now, Flash has a 10+ year headstart, but QtQuick *CAN* cover every aspect of what Flash does, and potentially better on the long run | 11:09 |
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| RST38h | Termana: My guess is that 70% will say that they do not have any Flash10-specific URLs in mind, while the remaining 30% will give Facebook URL :) | 11:09 |
| RST38h | achipa: Yea, and then it becomes the same thing as Flash. Even using the same ECMAScript :) | 11:10 |
| Termana | RST38h, mmm. I only use it on the desktop for YouTube videos that won't display as HTML5 and on the N900 I used an application to view youtube, and I didn't use flash for anything else | 11:10 |
| RST38h | YouTube does not require Flash10 though, does it? | 11:10 |
| Termana | RST38h, I don't think so, to my knowledge. But I was just commenting on my general use of flash at all | 11:11 |
| achipa | RST38h: the same thing except it is Free and more powerful and more cross platform and... need I go on ? | 11:11 |
| RST38h | Mmmm, probably not, I understood your excitement. | 11:11 |
| crashanddie_ | hmm | 11:11 |
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| crashanddie_ | don't try to divide 1g by 25k on Google | 11:12 |
| Termana | crashanddie_, you naughty boy - did you crash one of Google's servers? | 11:12 |
| crashanddie_ | nope | 11:12 |
| achipa | crashanddie_: why ? does it send to police to your address ? | 11:12 |
| crashanddie_ | I just got yelled at by boltzmann | 11:12 |
| Termana | crashanddie_, accidentally divide by 0? | 11:12 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:13 |
| Termana | morning Jaffa | 11:13 |
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| dneary | Morning | 11:15 |
| dneary | It seems to take me longer & longer to get through email every morning | 11:15 |
| X-Fade | dneary: That will only get worse ;) | 11:17 |
| lcuk | hey guys \o | 11:18 |
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| ebzzry | Is there a way to enable/disable extras-testing on the command line? | 11:30 |
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| luccini | anywyas bai imheading of buying a dongle for laptop way easyer to use flash and all needing for internet , phones just shouldnt have interne if there is lack of support | 11:34 |
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| ieatlint | i agree, if a phone can't replace my desktop entirely, it's clearly inferior and should not exist | 11:36 |
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| RST38h | ok. | 11:37 |
| luccini | yeah whats the deal for an internet phone as they call it nowdays if it dont have support for the most needed thing flashplayer | 11:37 |
| luccini | its not just maemo but symbian also | 11:37 |
| RobbieThe1st | ... The only thing you need flash player for is videos, mostly | 11:37 |
| luccini | they lack flash support to | 11:37 |
| luccini | not realy | 11:37 |
| ieatlint | luccini: you should get an iphone then | 11:37 |
| ieatlint | it'll solve your problems | 11:38 |
| luccini | there are flash ebsites like logitech.com | 11:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | There are a few websites which use it for navigation. The authors should be strung up and shot. | 11:38 |
| raster | RobbieThe1st: i disagree. i want to see the flashing animated banner and fullscreen advertisements. | 11:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | But even then, the N900's got flash support | 11:38 |
| RST38h | Hmm...it has been at least 30 minutes, and he is STILL raving about flash player? | 11:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | raster: :P | 11:38 |
| raster | i want to feel like i have been a good consumer today and watched my fill of advertising | 11:38 |
| raster | :) | 11:38 |
| RST38h | moo, raster | 11:38 |
| luccini | iphone is shit inothing hear anything thentroubles abot it froom my cousins | 11:38 |
| flux | rst38h, the more raving, the more likely flash 10 will get rapidly ported to n900! | 11:39 |
| RST38h | you should just get yourself a pair of light-up LED horns and install a mirror behind your monitor | 11:39 |
| ieatlint | more specifically, without flash, how i can i watch http://nig.gr/whiteblack.swf | 11:39 |
| raster | RST38h: burrp | 11:39 |
| flux | (&released) | 11:39 |
| raster | :) | 11:39 |
| RobbieThe1st | Bah, that's the thing - I have flash support on my computer. Full, 10.1 x64 support that works perfectly. I use it about twice per day on average | 11:39 |
| RobbieThe1st | Most of the time, noscript blocks it for me | 11:39 |
| edheldil | apple does not want flash because it would harm their revenue from appstore | 11:39 |
| RST38h | flux: obviously, how have I missed that! | 11:39 |
| luccini | well i use it daily for xdcc bots | 11:40 |
| flux | to be fair, I would have liked to use google streetview from n900, but it doesn't work anymore after they upgraded the service to flash10 | 11:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | As an aside, after using the "tweak flash player" script, I -tried- to find a site that wouldn't work. I couldn't :\ | 11:40 |
| flux | other than that.. hmm.. | 11:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | Youtube worked fine | 11:40 |
| luccini | im one of those anime lovers and daily there is an eps to download | 11:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, frigging download it then | 11:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | .flv files generally play fine in mplayer | 11:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | 's what I do | 11:40 |
| luccini | just that flash player sux i cant access those sites | 11:41 |
| raster | ieatlint: indeed. how could your life be fulfilled without being able to watch that | 11:41 |
| ieatlint | i believe gstreamer on the phone has flv support as well (assuming compatible codec, which is likely) | 11:41 |
| RobbieThe1st | Forget about it already, and complain to the management | 11:41 |
| luccini | i cant help it lol | 11:41 |
| Termana | luccini, piss off and go buy your fucking dongle | 11:41 |
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| luccini | being an otaku aint easy | 11:41 |
| RobbieThe1st | Would a ban make it easier? | 11:41 |
| psycho_oreos | who here have access to their n900 right now? preferably through shell or something like that. I need an unmolested copy of /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/pulse/xpolicy.conf | 11:41 |
| ieatlint | raster: my point exactly! it was a proud day when i could play that on my phone | 11:41 |
| ieatlint | a proud, proud day | 11:41 |
| raster | indeed | 11:42 |
| raster | :) | 11:42 |
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| ieatlint | psycho_oreos: http://tehinterweb.com/xpolicy.conf | 11:43 |
| psycho_oreos | ieatlint, thanks | 11:43 |
| ieatlint | np | 11:43 |
| ieatlint | raster: as a side note, that domain is perhaps the most interesting url shortener i've ever come across | 11:44 |
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| Termana | ieatlint, that animation is just strange. :p | 11:46 |
| ieatlint | yes, but also a tad hilarious | 11:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | um... what? | 11:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | I went to that link, I just saw the text of the conf file | 11:47 |
| ieatlint | different link | 11:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | ah | 11:47 |
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| psycho_oreos | ieatlint, would you happen to have tried hacking the silent mode? | 11:52 |
| ieatlint | nope | 11:52 |
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| ieatlint | i've not modified any pulseaudio related config file | 11:53 |
| ieatlint | in fact, about the only thing that modified standard pr1.2 on my n900 is the power kernel | 11:53 |
| psycho_oreos | hmm bugger, oh well thanks anyways. Trying to get sounds playing through even if the N900 is in silent | 11:53 |
| psycho_oreos | o.O | 11:53 |
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| ieatlint | that may not be at all easy... if you bypass as much of pulseaudio's interace as possible, you might have some luck | 11:54 |
| ieatlint | but i doubt it | 11:54 |
| psycho_oreos | There is this: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6694 but it requires one to have far more knowledge | 11:55 |
| povbot | Bug 6694: libplayback missing -doc package | 11:55 |
| crashanddie_ | "Waiting for some inspiration, but lacking the human interaction" | 11:56 |
| psycho_oreos | what sort of interaction is needed? :o | 11:58 |
| ieatlint | psycho_oreos: are you writing an app, or trying to configure mplayer or similar? | 11:58 |
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| psycho_oreos | ieatlint, trying to get apps working despite N900 is set into silent mode.. this affects a wide variety of apps including the phone UI | 11:59 |
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| ieatlint | somehow that strikes me as not a bug, but a feature | 12:00 |
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| ieatlint | i don't want my phone to make noise when i put it on silent, be a phone call, or some random app | 12:00 |
| psycho_oreos | but what if you've got headphone/headset even bluetooth device at that? | 12:01 |
| Termana | take it off silent? | 12:01 |
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| Termana | If you have headphones or a bluetooth speaker in, the only sounds that should play (if they do or not I don't know) is the camera sounds | 12:02 |
| Termana | (through the device instead) | 12:02 |
| psycho_oreos | well that works but when it comes to receiving phone calls with bluetooth headset N900 will play the ringtone before the bluetooth headset will also play the ringtone | 12:02 |
| RST38h | Dr Watson to play Bilbo Baggins in "Hobbit". | 12:02 |
| RST38h | Cute. | 12:03 |
| f0rkb0mb | wow just using xchat on my N900, have to admit thats the cleanest GUI ive seen so far | 12:03 |
| f0rkb0mb | compared to gftp or irreco for example | 12:03 |
| crashanddie_ | "A shareholder of Bible.com Inc sued the company's board members, accusing the ordained ministers of failing to profit from the "goldmine" potential of the namesake Internet property, according to a lawsuit." | 12:03 |
| Termana | psycho_oreos, well if that's the case, and it's not suppose to do that, then it's a bug. But you don't make an app to play sounds when it's silent :p | 12:03 |
| psycho_oreos | Termana, no but I rather play it through external sources if they are connected apart from N900's actual speakers | 12:04 |
| psycho_oreos | what if you're at work and you want to listen to your own music without it playing through the speakers or using NIT's media player? | 12:05 |
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| psycho_oreos | see its funny, NIT's media player can actually play sounds even if the device is actually in silent mode.. but other apps can't | 12:06 |
| psycho_oreos | and I mean through bluetooth headset in this particular instance | 12:06 |
| psycho_oreos | Since mplayer and pianobar silence with silence mode it's gotta be setting a system volume down.. but the official media player apps such as Youtube and Music use a different volume area that gets around the "silencing". | 12:07 |
| psycho_oreos | bleh I forgot to enclose that in quotes.. meh | 12:08 |
| psycho_oreos | and apparently its a bug that has been fixed/resolved into a version which is not publicly available | 12:08 |
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| Termana | Well, that was nice. Apparently xorg was saying "Hey there, I'm just going to crash and restart on you for no good reason, is that ok? OF COURSE IT IS, LAL ALLALALA :D))" | 12:14 |
| psycho_oreos | that's not as bad as having an alarm going off almost randomly because the device was lagging.. you find yourself humiliated in front of others and forced your device to poweroff | 12:16 |
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| psycho_oreos | nothing on the screen and no buttons to mute the alarm as you panic and hit the poweroff | 12:18 |
| f0rkb0mb | been there... many times haha | 12:24 |
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| RST38h | ah, heya konttori | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | Hmm after scratchbox-isms, are we now also getting Qt SDK-isms? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/effing_0.2.0-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 12:44 |
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| RST38h | Nokia staff working on Symbian development in Cambridge were sent home yesterday, while the London crowd sloped off early after being told that 300 will lose their jobs | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | url? | 12:51 |
| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/22/nokia_layoffs/ | 12:51 |
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| ieatlint | i've been told in no uncertain terms to never trust anything theregister.co.uk prints | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Then don't. | 12:52 |
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| ieatlint | indeed | 12:53 |
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| dRbiG | getting rid of symbian - finally | 12:55 |
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| ieatlint | and that's a rumour that was reported yesterday... symbian^3 allegedly will be the final major release, with bugfixes only in the future | 12:57 |
| ieatlint | guess they figure meego 1.2 will be polished enough to hit mainstream | 12:57 |
| RST38h | That is not the "rumour" reported yesterday | 12:57 |
| RST38h | Yesterday "rumour", reported by a Nokia blogger, was that they are dropping ^n naming scheme, and just oncentrate on Symbian, with Qt as UI | 12:58 |
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| RST38h | Which I believe only when Eikon/Avkon are gone, but not a second before that. | 12:59 |
| dneary | RST38h, I guess keeping up with exponential growth was too hard | 12:59 |
| jaska | exponential bloat?:) | 12:59 |
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| dneary | RST38h, So the next release will be 2sym^4? | 12:59 |
| dneary | Then 3sym^4 | 13:00 |
| dneary | etc | 13:00 |
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| dneary | Or even, sym^4+1 | 13:00 |
| dneary | sym^4+2 | 13:00 |
| dneary | sym^4+3 | 13:00 |
| dneary | ... | 13:00 |
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| RST38h | dneary: Dunno, my personal opinion is that starting with Nokia buying out Symbian Foundation, they all went on hallucinogenic mushrooms | 13:01 |
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| RST38h | dneary: You can clearly see it from their web site artwork, the weird naming scheme, various promises, and so on | 13:01 |
| ieatlint | RST38h: http://www.taloussanomat.fi/informaatioteknologia/2010/10/21/nokia-symbian-4--puhelimia-ei-tulekaan/201014655/12 is what i was referring to, not from a nokia blogger... granted i don't speak finnish, so my understanding of the article is through a somewhat poorly translated interpretation... | 13:02 |
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| ieatlint | but it seems to state that symbian has been discontinued in favour of meego | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | on smartphones maybe, but it's useful for low-end phones | 13:03 |
| RST38h | dneary: + they dropped UIQ people who actually had a clearer idea of the future for Symbian UI (but failed to produce a reliable product) | 13:03 |
| ieatlint | but, as said, i may be missing something very big here due to the translation | 13:03 |
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| ieatlint | and i'm unfamiliar with the source so as to regard it as authoritative | 13:04 |
| toggles | meego home now | 13:04 |
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| petteri | ieatlint: it just says what RST38h already said | 13:04 |
| petteri | they are not dropping symbian only the naming changes | 13:04 |
| dneary | RST38h, That seems like a good reason to get rid of people... | 13:04 |
| ieatlint | petteri: ah, ok | 13:05 |
| dneary | Lunch | 13:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mooo wazzup? | 14:26 |
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| dneary | andre__, Just CCed you on a discussion I just got CCed on, about what to do with Qt documentation bugs that get reported to Bugzilla | 14:42 |
| dneary | andre__, I'd appreciate your feedback | 14:42 |
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| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=VR+Tunnel+Live+Wallpaper+for+Android&aq=f 3d (perspective) wallpaper for android (can n900 do this??) | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: you got further details about your water induced fatality? | 14:51 |
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| pupnik_ | or does it require a compass or something to get absolute position? | 14:51 |
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| phryk | how do i get around the easy setup thing for wlan? | 14:52 |
| phryk | i just want to input the damn psk | 14:52 |
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| Termana | DocScrutinizer, hmm, well when I first tried plugging it in (before I felt the water), it would immediately go to a green light, now it sits on yellow for a second and then fades to green | 14:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: heh, that's why I ask :-S you're killing the device by trying to operate it 'premature' means prior to drying it for 2 weeks | 14:54 |
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| jacekowski | Termana: you have to submerge it in distilled water | 14:55 |
| jacekowski | Termana: and clean it with it | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | even when it seems like working flawlessly odds are your device suffers from corrosion due to remaining water plus electricity | 14:55 |
| jacekowski | Termana: but ideally you would take it apart | 14:55 |
| jacekowski | Termana: and clean just pcb | 14:55 |
| jacekowski | Termana: to avoid more damaging components that can be damaged by water | 14:55 |
| Termana | Is it better to take it completely apart for drying anyway? | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I suggested that yesterday - seems it doesn't really help | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: yes | 14:56 |
| jacekowski | well, rectified spirit then | 14:56 |
| jacekowski | 96% pure alcohol | 14:56 |
| Termana | But I suppose I need a torx screwdriver for that :p | 14:56 |
| jacekowski | yep | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: if you dare. Then for sure you also should rinse PCB with deminaralized water | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus a PH0 | 14:56 |
| jacekowski | or pure alcohol | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | or PH1? | 14:57 |
| jacekowski | that's better | 14:57 |
| jacekowski | because it dries faster | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 14:57 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that's what electronics cleaning stuff is based on | 14:57 |
| jacekowski | or isopropyl alcohol | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | some of the plastic or varnish might get damaged by alcohol | 14:57 |
| Termana | For some reason, I would hate to see myself squirting more water on it :p | 14:58 |
| jacekowski | that's not water | 14:58 |
| jacekowski | it only looks like water | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | get over it | 14:58 |
| Termana | heh | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | destilled water is a technical substance | 14:58 |
| jacekowski | take it apart and use isopropyl alcohol if you have it or some vodka | 14:59 |
| jacekowski | or distilled water | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's even poison - muhaha | 14:59 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, anyway, you think it's a bad thing that the light has decided to change to yellow to green from just green? | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | NO!!! vodka! NEVER! | 14:59 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: ? | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | vodka is more dirty than tap water | 15:00 |
| jacekowski | i don't want to know what you drink | 15:00 |
| jacekowski | but if you have like 50% of alcohol in it | 15:00 |
| jacekowski | then there isn't much stuff that can be in it | 15:00 |
| jacekowski | but yeah it isn't the best thing to use | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: use demineralized water. then dry for 2 weeks. and everything will be fine | 15:01 |
| andre__ | dneary, thanks, will take a look later | 15:01 |
| dneary | andre__, Thanks | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you already ruined it by inserting bat & trying to switch on too early | 15:01 |
| Termana | Where am I suppose to get demineralized water at 10:30pm in the middle of nowhere to? | 15:01 |
| Termana | :p | 15:01 |
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| jacekowski | Termana: garage | 15:03 |
| jacekowski | Termana: where do you live? | 15:03 |
| jacekowski | Termana: it's the same stuff you use for car bateries | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: well, I suggested you just try to dry it. if you encounter contact problems or it doesn't work after 2 weeks, then you still may rinse it with demineralized water | 15:03 |
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| Termana | jacekowski, in a rural town. I'm about 70km for any sane town, and that's not a big town. To get to one of those you need to travel 250km :p | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's suboptimal, but better than messing around with it now, by using inapropiate means | 15:04 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, mmhmm. You still didn't really say weather the light thing was a good or bad thing :p | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a bad thing as you tried to switch on the phone | 15:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | doing this you recharged the fixed backup battery which with a bit of luck got discharged during first incident without corroding the traces and solder points do shit | 15:06 |
| RST38h | "Nokia has bowed to international pressure and agreed to end the cruel and unusual practice of programming natively for the Symbian OS. | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | now it's charged again and continues to corrode traces | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: +1 | 15:07 |
| hrw | what would be reaction of maemo community if I would takeover package in extras-devel? original maintainer does not respond to emails or itt posts | 15:07 |
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| Stskeeps | hrw: generally just ask on maemo-developers i think | 15:07 |
| Termana | I'm thinking of buying a safe | 15:07 |
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| RST38h | hrw: Have done that twice | 15:07 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: I am not subscribed there | 15:07 |
| Termana | If it starts working again, I'm going to lock it in the safe | 15:07 |
| RST38h | hrw: As long as your changes are non-trivial and make it better, why not? | 15:07 |
| hrw | I am a bit tired of apmefo situation. author is MIA, my unofficial package has fixes and improvements | 15:08 |
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| RST38h | hrw: Ah, cool, can I make a personal request? | 15:08 |
| hrw | RST38h: yes - but only in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56844&page=7 thread | 15:09 |
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| hrw | RST38h: there are other users | 15:09 |
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| RST38h | hrw: done | 15:11 |
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| hrw | replied: "not by me" | 15:12 |
| * hrw -> lunch | 15:12 | |
| Conspirest | any idea about pr 1.3 | 15:13 |
| hrw | ~pr1.3 | 15:13 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 15:13 |
| Appiah | ~pr2.0 | 15:14 |
| Appiah | :D | 15:14 |
| Conspirest | good one | 15:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Appiah: ?? | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Appiah: you better check the diferent 1.x versions prior to earning a ~lart for talking about pr>1 | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 15:20 |
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| RST38h | Dumb question: how do I change an X11 window title? | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, X does have window titles? | 15:23 |
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| RST38h | the wm does | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 15:24 |
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| mgedmin | (more context needed: from xterm? from a C program linking to libX11? from qt?) | 15:25 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: from a C program of course | 15:29 |
| RST38h | I said "X11" after all :) | 15:30 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h, you want to set the WM_NAME and _NET_WM_NAME window properties then | 15:30 |
| mgedmin | the first has type STRING, the second UTF8_STRING | 15:30 |
| mgedmin | there's also WM_ICON_NAME and _NET_WM_ICON_NAME, used when the window is minimized | 15:31 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | Someone help me with shell script: how can I compare date of modification between two files and then do action desired based on the result? | 15:34 |
| D-Iivil_Work | (in N900) | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: aha, thanks =) | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | disclaimer: I've never actually used libX11 | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | it's possible it has some kind of XSetWindowTitle() function | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | instead of forcing you to deal with X window properties directly | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | I'd suggest you take a look at some small app's (xmag, e.g.) sources | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | D-Iivil_Work: if [ fileone -nt filetwo ] | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | then | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | echo newer | 15:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | fi | 15:39 |
| D-Iivil_Work | SpeedEvil, that easy :D | 15:39 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | SpeedEvil, what I googled was just more or less complex awk scripts :D | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't know whrer hte correct list of arguments for the busybox sh is. I look at man bash, and see if stuff works | 15:40 |
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| D-Iivil_Work | SpeedEvil, so in that example the "fileone" is the one that's being checked if it's never than "filetwo"? | 15:40 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:41 |
| D-Iivil_Work | Thanks :) | 15:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | man test | 16:02 |
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| RST38h | Hmmm | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Someone impersonating MohammadAG? | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mmh? | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: why would you think that? | 16:11 |
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| RST38h | Doc: check out Guest56585 | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | and an IP in germany? | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | something's weird here | 16:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it seems MohammadAG-51 has decided to /quit which makes ZNC quit the channel. I suggested to him several times not to enable that nickserv enforce option, as he refuses to add credentials to ZNC, so ZNC rejoining IRC doesn't know about authentication and subsequently nick is renamed to guest-nnnn | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: nothing weird here | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | just my server | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 16:16 |
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| RST38h | Complicated. | 16:17 |
| javispedro | morning | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo javispedro | 16:18 |
| RST38h | moorning to you too javispedro | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG-51: FIX your /ns otion enforce !! | 16:19 |
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| MohammadAG | fucking freenode | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, fix freenode! | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | fucking piece of shit keeps lagging | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: no, fsckng user not setting up his options so they match his usage profile | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, freenode, not ZNC | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: either you tell ZNC about your credentials so it can authenticate on behalf of you, or you disable that friggin enforce option which otherwise will rename after 20s | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | 2.4s lag, acceptable I guess (on barjavel.freenode.net) | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I was cycling servers with *status | 16:21 |
| marmoute | MohammadAG: They connection seems ravaged | 16:22 |
| MohammadAG | which apparently is connecting to the same server, sigh | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I can fix ZNC to always connect to kornbluth.freenode.net | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: aah, k | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, can you add the servers here to one freenode list? | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | so when I jump servers it actually does so? | 16:24 |
| MohammadAG | ~ping | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 16:24 |
| infobot | ~pong | 16:24 |
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| MohammadAG | GAN900, ping? | 16:24 |
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| GAN900 | MohammadAG, pong? | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | PM | 16:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IRSeekBot: help | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | IRSeekBot: info | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | IRSeekBot: ? | 16:43 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 16:43 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b IRSeekBot!*@* | 16:44 | |
| *** IRSeekBot was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 16:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer | dopm | 16:44 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 16:44 | |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer: http://www.irseek.com/ | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cba, it's not in irseekbot's cloak, nor does the bot react to any polite query as supposed for all bots | 16:46 |
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| javispedro | "Moreover, the Real-Name and User-Name fields will be informative and may contain the URL of IRSeek." | 16:51 |
| javispedro | may? lol | 16:51 |
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| javispedro | what kind of self-conscious bot they have that "may" choose his own Real-Name? | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm about to recommend on freenode staff to removing cloak from irseekbot | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm about to recommend on freenode staff to remove cloak from irseekbot and ban | 16:53 |
| javispedro | haus haus http://www.irseek.com/show.php?pageid=b5ee393ace4c11dfa755210967edca77&hilite=maemo | 16:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: ?? | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | seen the userlist? o.O | 16:55 |
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| javispedro | yes, I remember that converstation. | 16:57 |
| javispedro | just searched for a random one | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, seems highly unlikely there's been just 18 users in #maemo at that time | 16:58 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I guess the bot only records those that had some lines in the log | 16:58 |
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| ebzzry | Uh, what exactly does org-insert-property-drawer do, in relation to what uwjweq said earlier? | 16:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I guess the master of this bot should read about IRC standard policies regarding bots on IRC/freenode | 16:59 |
| tybollt | ~slap DocScrutinizer | 17:00 |
| * infobot slaps DocScrutinizer, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! | 17:00 | |
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| tybollt | ;-) | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just heard irseekbot service earned a network ban when they started, and freenode staff isn't really in love with them | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so, as I usually have "[x]hide join/quit" - please report to me if that bot returns under any similar name or cloak | 17:19 |
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| RST38h | Hello, Wazd the Second | 17:28 |
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| orospakr | weird. the wifi power saving appears different today; now my ssh sessions and pings are stopping routinely after network activity stops on the device, but yesterday I wasn't getting that effect at all (made sure I'm running the same apps with the same amount of chattiness). same network. | 17:36 |
| javispedro | even network activity from peers could alter power saving behaviour | 17:36 |
| orospakr | hmm. | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | orospakr: consider possible "keep alive" packets from any service like IM, IRC, SIP... | 17:37 |
| orospakr | DocScrutinizer, yup, seems like. | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | they may keep your wlan up and responsive | 17:38 |
| orospakr | also looking into what the difference between max and intermediate is. | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I just know my ZyXEL AP isn't behaving with N900 PSM=max | 17:39 |
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| orospakr | I notice that when my phone hops back on, some of the pings I've sent are immediately replied to. Who is doing this buffering? the AP? | 17:40 |
| javispedro | sent from where? | 17:41 |
| orospakr | javispedro, another machine on the network (a desktop), sent to the n900. | 17:41 |
| javispedro | from computer -- answer: the AP. from n900 -- answer: nobody . | 17:41 |
| orospakr | pings aren't retransmitted by the sender's stack, iirc. | 17:42 |
| javispedro | clearly not. | 17:42 |
| orospakr | so, I'm wondering why I'm getting these bunched up replies when the phone's wifi comes back out of powersave. The phone's wifi cannot receive when it's in power save mode, afaik. | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | they are buffered in AP, as javispedro said | 17:44 |
| javispedro | the AP is buffering the.e | 17:44 |
| javispedro | *them. | 17:44 |
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| orospakr | ah, right. I didn't parse your reply correctly. | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | which means your AP seems to have a minimal idea about how to PSM | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo FatalSaint | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe not | 17:45 |
| orospakr | neat. well, my only remaining question is what the difference is between aggressive and intermediate. maybe just the timeouts? | 17:46 |
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| javispedro | iirc inactivity timer before enabling psm. but not sure. | 17:47 |
| javispedro | btw (gstreamer noob) what to use on n900, playbin or playbin2? | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | PSM=ultra works by RFC1149 | 17:49 |
| orospakr | here's an odd bit: if I'm pinging my n900 with a period of 1s, then the n900's replies should theoretically keep the PSM up indefinitely. | 17:49 |
| pupnik_ | is there a universal bluetooth protocol to exchange 'business cards'? | 17:49 |
| orospakr | however, they do not. the ping will suddenly start timing out. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | psm is rather complex | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | and subtly broken | 17:49 |
| orospakr | SpeedEvil, heuristics, I guess? | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | often | 17:49 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: usually obex+vcard | 17:50 |
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| pupnik_ | ty javispedro | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | somebody shared a pointer to PSM details (aka specs) some time ago, but alas I seem have missed to bookmark it :-S | 17:51 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_profiles#Object_Push_Profile_.28OPP.29 | 17:51 |
| orospakr | man, my office mate is so hardcore that I said "RFC 1149" to him, and he says, "Hmmm. Avian carriers?" | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 17:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, 1. Apr 1999 ~= 1149 | 17:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's easy | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | err 1990, sorry | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then the hint doesn't work anymore :-P | 17:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still the best: >>The bandwidth is limited to the leg length<< X-D | 17:59 |
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| phryk | How do I get to the psk-entry dialogue when having a wlan that supports the weird "Wi-Fi Protected Setup compliant" ones… | 18:11 |
| orospakr | javispedro, I don't know about maemo 5 specifically, but playbin2 - while supporting gapless playback and other fun - is still a little unstable. | 18:12 |
| javispedro | hmm.. I need no fancy features, so playbin1 is it. | 18:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | phryk: sorry, never run into such dialog, but I guess in settings->internet_connections you may config all the details of arbitrary wlan connections | 18:19 |
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| phryk | DocScrutinizer: i have only 3 options there | 18:22 |
| phryk | "Connect automatically", "Search Interval" and "Switch to Wi-Fi when available" | 18:22 |
| phryk | oh wait | 18:22 |
| phryk | theres a connections button | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 18:22 |
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| phryk | yay | 18:23 |
| phryk | thanks | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 18:23 |
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| phryk | DocScrutinizer: Could you also tell me, if you know about a nicer terminal than the default xterm? | 18:26 |
| phryk | they at least don't seem to have urxvt | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, never heard of any alternative terminals | 18:27 |
| phryk | damn | 18:27 |
| phryk | but thanks^^ | 18:27 |
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| dneary | I guess ferenc never made it onto IRC | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | phryk: apt-cache tells me there's osso-xterm (=default), and there's >>xterm - X terminal emulator<< | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, found the answer to window title? | 18:34 |
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| phryk | DocScrutinizer: then i'd rather have the default one ^^; | 18:35 |
| phryk | DocScrutinizer: I guess the "normal" xterm won't even have the touchscreen buttons for tab, etc… | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | xterm is for the SDK | 18:36 |
| phryk | MohammadAG: why that? where's the difference to the osso thing that makes it needed by the sdk? | 18:36 |
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| MohammadAG | tset: unknown terminal type xterm <-- afaik | 18:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | apt-get install xterm works here | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol, but does xterm work? | 18:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, it 'works' | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 18:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moinmoin lcukn900 | 19:06 |
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| lcukn900 | hey doc | 19:08 |
| lcukn900 | doc how do i stop this xchat from loading scrollback after restarting? | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | settings? | 19:09 |
| lcukn900 | my desktop client just starts with a clear window | 19:09 |
| lcukn900 | i looked | 19:10 |
| lcukn900 | theres a scrollback lines option but afaik thats for how much to hold in memory, different to reloading on startup | 19:10 |
| lcukn900 | brb | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | logging / display scrollback from prev session | 19:11 |
| lcukn900 | changing it to 0 had no effect | 19:12 |
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| MohammadAG | lcuk, there's a small . in the top tabs | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | that's actually an arrow to go right/left in tabs | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | click it then <DocScrutinizer51> logging / display scrollback from prev session | 19:13 |
| MohammadAG | lcukn900, ^ | 19:13 |
| lcukn900 | yes i just saw it thanks | 19:13 |
| lcukn900 | thats teeny | 19:13 |
| MohammadAG | very | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yo, xchat not exactly hildonized | 19:13 |
| lcukn900 | those prefs would be better as a longer single pannable page | 19:13 |
| lcukn900 | hmm | 19:13 |
| * MohammadAG wonders how to tie the size of a QWebView with a QMainWindow | 19:13 | |
| lcukn900 | yeah i know | 19:14 |
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| MohammadAG | ~seen Noobmonk3y | 19:14 |
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| infobot | noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust67.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20h 41m 28s ago, saying: 'ish!'. | 19:14 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: setSizePolicy() | 19:18 |
| alterego | or setPolicy() | 19:18 |
| alterego | can't remember | 19:18 |
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| alterego | webview.setSizePolicy(QSizePolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding, QSizePolicy::Expanding)) | 19:19 |
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| ZogG | дщд | 19:25 |
| ZogG | lol | 19:25 |
| ZogG | who is janole on twitter? | 19:25 |
| ZogG | think there is a misconseption of what an open source phone OS means: it's not that you build it, it's that you can learn from the source. | 19:25 |
| ZogG | lol | 19:25 |
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| MohammadAG | ZogG, Gravity developer | 19:28 |
| ZogG | lol | 19:28 |
| ZogG | yeah i read | 19:28 |
| ZogG | but no gravity for n900 =) cause he is too open??? | 19:28 |
| ZogG | btw winamp goes on android | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | idk why he didn't want it on there | 19:29 |
| ZogG | and we never got linux version =) | 19:29 |
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| Myrtti | ZogG: because there's open source free ones that people tend to use and he didn't see a business in it? also AFAIK he wasn't into Qt yet too well when N900 surfaced | 19:34 |
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| rokr1 | hello all | 19:49 |
| rokr1 | PR1.3 | 19:49 |
| rokr1 | bot ? | 19:49 |
| rokr1 | lol | 19:49 |
| secyritas | ~PR1.3 | 19:49 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 19:49 |
| xDaReaperx | PR1.3 is out ? | 19:49 |
| secyritas | :-\ | 19:49 |
| rokr1 | nope | 19:49 |
| rokr1 | but i see in the repository | 19:49 |
| rokr1 | its almost out | 19:50 |
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| rokr1 | last updated 22.10.2010 07:24 for PR1.4 | 19:50 |
| rokr1 | sorry PR1.3 | 19:50 |
| rokr1 | thats today | 19:51 |
| rokr1 | developers are working hard i think | 19:51 |
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| rokr1 | hats off to them and my respect | 19:51 |
| xDaReaperx | yes thats great | 19:51 |
| secyritas | oh you mean http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.3/ ? | 19:52 |
| xDaReaperx | yeah he meant that | 19:52 |
| rokr1 | yes | 19:52 |
| secyritas | it's just a symlink to http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.2/ | 19:52 |
| javispedro | sigh. | 19:52 |
| secyritas | :) | 19:52 |
| rokr1 | still u can do apt-get upgrade | 19:52 |
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| rokr1 | but u may brick the phone | 19:52 |
| rokr1 | lol | 19:52 |
| javispedro | ... | 19:53 |
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| rokr1 | let me change the topic | 19:53 |
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| rokr1 | before i get banned | 19:53 |
| rokr1 | i still have problem | 19:53 |
| rokr1 | with openVPN | 19:54 |
| rokr1 | is there any app for pptp ?? | 19:54 |
| rokr1 | as of now i dont see pppd | 19:54 |
| rokr1 | in repository | 19:54 |
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| rokr1 | MPPE Support | 19:55 |
| rokr1 | any app ?? | 19:55 |
| rokr1 | nay nay | 19:56 |
| rokr1 | knock knock anyone there ?? | 19:56 |
| alterego | "PR1.3 is out?" - Do you have a orange update notification in your status area? -_- | 19:57 |
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| alterego | I think I might stop interacting in #maemo affairs and move to #meego from now on. | 19:58 |
| alterego | Less lusers :) | 19:58 |
| xDaReaperx | Maemo is better than Meego | 19:59 |
| xDaReaperx | Maemo 5 | 19:59 |
| rokr1 | thats a good idea alterego | 19:59 |
| rokr1 | 1 less luser | 19:59 |
| rokr1 | :) | 19:59 |
| rokr1 | ASs'asins crEED | 20:00 |
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| rokr1 | reaperx | 20:01 |
| rokr1 | is there any app for PPTP | 20:02 |
| rokr1 | ?? | 20:02 |
| rokr1 | client ? | 20:02 |
| javispedro | alterego: first rule of #meego: you don't talk about #meego =) | 20:03 |
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| rokr1 | Hal is huge in N900 | 20:05 |
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| rokr1 | have to spare a lot of time to learn | 20:05 |
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| rokr1 | the device | 20:05 |
| rokr1 | its unique | 20:05 |
| rokr1 | i love N900 | 20:05 |
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| xDaReaperx | Did you buy it recently ? | 20:08 |
| rokr1 | yes | 20:08 |
| xDaReaperx | no wonder your so excited about it | 20:08 |
| rokr1 | few months back this | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ZogG: ( it's that you can learn from the source.) wtf?! Learn how I *would* build same shit, if only bootloader would allow me to load an unsigned kernel... Or what? | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart janole and this idiotic notion | 20:18 |
| * infobot executes killall -TERM janole and this idiotic notion | 20:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer | FOSS is not an educational book for the noobs (well, not only). FOSS is supposed to empower me to *change* things, which of course implies I can *build* things and *use* them same way as the original source | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and binaries | 20:20 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, sorry i was rolling j... something important - couldn't answer | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ZogG: assuming this shit was a quote of that janole and not your own opiinion | 20:27 |
| phryk | how do i get ifconfig? | 20:27 |
| MohammadAG | /sbin/ifconfig | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | root | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG | /sbin isn't in $PATH | 20:28 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, yeah that's why it looked stupid, so i quoted. but check this too : "Haters gonna hate. Remember that it's easy to criticize, hard to create, and even harder to lead." | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG | at least not user's | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, heavy site, of course, http://twitter.com/#!/janole/status/28403213367 | 20:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | WAAAAAAAAAAH twitter | 20:29 |
| ZogG | DocScrutinizer51 i'm not stupid, if nokia shows there videos for open phone on youtube from nokia lab, so why wouldn't they release it, f##k lairs =))) | 20:29 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 ponders to create an email user agent that just discards all mails that aren't signed by my cryptokey. Maybe lusers would learn about security framework and signed BL bullsh*t | 20:33 | |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: too early for such geeky dreams | 20:35 |
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| * javispedro ponders if gstreamer implictly creates its own thread to do work, or runs everything off gmainloop | 20:35 | |
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| javispedro | well, easy answer. | 20:35 |
| * javispedro goes test it | 20:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | htop has a setting to show threads :-) | 20:36 |
| javispedro | let's say that my gmainloop won't be running "often", so if it's going to depend on it running, the video is going to play quite slowly | 20:36 |
| javispedro | in a few weeks or so =) | 20:37 |
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| crashanddie_ | You know how I was trying to get my company to move over to git? | 20:37 |
| javispedro | you explained why it is called 'git'? :P | 20:38 |
| crashanddie_ | 6 years of product history committed to git; 340 commits, 400 tags, 5 active branches, 70MB worth of repository. | 20:38 |
| crashanddie_ | javispedro, they're french, they don't understand the word "git" | 20:38 |
| crashanddie_ | they just pronounce it the same as "gite" (hostel) | 20:38 |
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| crashanddie_ | most of them assumed it's because we're "giving a roof" to the source code. Whatever floats their boat. | 20:39 |
| crashanddie_ | I'm not going to burst their bubble. | 20:39 |
| javispedro | 340 commits, 400 tags? O.o | 20:39 |
| crashanddie_ | yeah | 20:39 |
| crashanddie_ | some commits have multiple tags | 20:39 |
| crashanddie_ | "v2.0 is also v2.0.0 and v2.0.0.0" | 20:40 |
| crashanddie_ | no idea why I put quotes around my own sentence. | 20:40 |
| javispedro | nice. | 20:40 |
| crashanddie_ | and you want to know the best part? | 20:40 |
| crashanddie_ | I was all done automagically by the beauty of shell :) | 20:40 |
| crashanddie_ | It was** | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess it's called git because everybody feels like that when first being confronted with it | 20:41 |
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| crashanddie_ | I pulled the tar.gz's from and scp, parsed the name to get the version number, organised by date, so first all the initial version commits and then branching if some version had a posterior date | 20:42 |
| crashanddie_ | and also pulled the changes from a diff changes.txt file :) | 20:42 |
| crashanddie_ | anyway | 20:42 |
| crashanddie_ | 'later | 20:42 |
| crashanddie_ | going home | 20:42 |
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| javispedro | cya | 20:43 |
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| MohammadAG | grr | 21:00 |
| MohammadAG | QProgressBar is broken on both PR1.2 and PR1.3 | 21:00 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: you mean leaked PR 1.3? | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG | does it matter? | 21:04 |
| trumee | rokr1: there is a pptp thread on t.m.o | 21:04 |
| MohammadAG | there's no other one | 21:04 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: since it is not out yet, maybe they could fix it if told. | 21:05 |
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| andre__ | trumee: ROFL | 21:10 |
| andre__ | sorry, that's not how things work. | 21:10 |
| FIQ|n900 | wat | 21:11 |
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| FIQ|n900 | 1.3 leaked _as well_? | 21:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | lol | 21:11 |
| javispedro | ~pr1.3 | 21:11 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 21:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | k | 21:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: that's why ~pr1.3 | 21:14 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 21:14 |
| MohammadAG | putting the progress bar into a layout fixed it | 21:14 |
| * MohammadAG marks as WORKSFORME | 21:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | and MohammadAG permanent mentioning it won't help anything, except call up more trolls asking "ohh, pr1.3??" | 21:14 |
| * MohammadAG patches bugzilla to include a SORTAWORKSFORME | 21:15 | |
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| Goliath23 | hi. is there a way to find out how often my package has been downloaded in extras-devel without making it "call home"? | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw there's also ~pr1.4 and ~pr1.5 | 21:16 |
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| toggles | pr1.4? | 21:17 |
| * toggles ducks | 21:17 | |
| andre__ | Goliath23, for Extras there is, e.g. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/mydicto/# | 21:17 |
| andre__ | no idea for -devel | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | toggles: you forgot "infobot:" or "~" | 21:18 |
| andre__ | oh. maybe also works | 21:18 |
| toggles | DocScrutinizer: is it out yet? | 21:18 |
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| * MohammadAG lhfao-s | 21:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: Goliath23: that's however all downloads sigma, not easy to calculate from this number to the (much lower) number of installations | 21:19 |
| andre__ | oh | 21:20 |
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| * MohammadAG smiles at the basic browser he added to PSFreedom | 21:21 | |
| johnsq | Hi | 21:21 |
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| MohammadAG | what's the header file for the connection dialog? | 21:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andre__: Goliath23: well, actually it's downloads/day, for the different repos, and I'm not sure how older versions of same package are handled in this statistics | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess the number of downloads after a new version is promoted will roughly reflect the actual number if installations in use | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | during the first few days, that is | 21:29 |
| Goliath23 | alright. thanks a lot | 21:30 |
| Goliath23 | doesnt find my extras-devel package (buliscores) though | 21:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=buliscores&os=Maemo5&repo=extras-devel | 21:38 |
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| Goliath23 | oh cool thanks | 21:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you'll have to wait some days before real ststistic data shows up there | 21:40 |
| Goliath23 | okay | 21:40 |
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| Goliath23 | if someone wants to try it.. there is a game running right now. feedback appredciated! ;) | 21:40 |
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| oshin | hi, anyone know if I could just upload stellarium mobile ? just got it for 1 usd | 21:45 |
| oshin | from my country | 21:45 |
| oshin | and since it's gpl | 21:45 |
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| * MohammadAG wonders how variables and if variable = something in C++ work | 21:46 | |
| oshin | speaking of operator overloading? | 21:46 |
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| MohammadAG | #define PAGE1 "file:///opt/psfreedom/resources/helpimages/Slim/page1.png" <-- is the syntax correct? | 21:50 |
| oshin | http://lovenacky.endofinternet.org/~id/stellarium_mobile_1_0_3_113373.deb | 21:50 |
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| oshin | MohammadAG, yes | 21:51 |
| oshin | should i post it on the thread? | 21:51 |
| oshin | i wouldn't violate distributing gpl binary right? | 21:51 |
| javispedro | you have the source? | 21:52 |
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| oshin | javispedro, no, about states it's gpl | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG | contact the maintainer | 21:52 |
| javispedro | if you don't have the source, he's violation the gpl. the resulting binary is not gpl and thus you cannot redistribute it legally. | 21:52 |
| javispedro | *he's violating | 21:52 |
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| oshin | javispedro, i got it from ovi store. | 21:53 |
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| * MohammadAG lols | 21:53 | |
| oshin | for 1usd well :) | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | THE FUCK?! | 21:53 |
| oshin | didn't have to think much | 21:53 |
| oshin | they have different price for thai | 21:53 |
| phryk | can i change the hostname without running into problems? | 21:53 |
| oshin | everything is much cheaper. | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | you paid for GPL licensed apps? | 21:53 |
| javispedro | what happened to that story about he changing the license? | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | phryk, /etc/hostname, yes | 21:53 |
| oshin | well.. yes. | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | the ovi store's QA team is fucked up | 21:54 |
| oshin | but i'd just call it, support price. | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | the ovi store's * is fucked up | 21:54 |
| oshin | like make ease so i don't need to compile myself. | 21:54 |
| phryk | mohammadag: i meant without getting probs from the device | 21:54 |
| oshin | well, just want to play it quickly don't blame me for being stupid something.. | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | I can compile it for you for free if I have the source | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | PhonicUK, as I said, yes | 21:54 |
| oshin | i can compile it myself | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG | so can everyone | 21:55 |
| oshin | yeh but.. | 21:55 |
| PhonicUK | eh? | 21:55 |
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| oshin | just get it quickly | 21:55 |
| PhonicUK | ah tab completion | 21:55 |
| PhonicUK | carry on | 21:55 |
| oshin | and i know dev will get some money | 21:55 |
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| MohammadAG | LOL didn't notice that, sorry PhonicUK | 21:55 |
| PhonicUK | no worries | 21:55 |
| * MohammadAG gives PhonicUK a ton of bacon | 21:56 | |
| * PhonicUK drools | 21:56 | |
| oshin | javispedro, btw, he owns the copyright afaict | 21:56 |
| * PhonicUK sells bacon :D | 21:56 | |
| oshin | so he can release it any license he want. | 21:56 |
| javispedro | oshin: in fact, afaik, he doesn't. that's the reason he was having problems to relicense it under a propietary license. | 21:56 |
| oshin | javispedro, ah | 21:56 |
| javispedro | oshin: rest of stellarium maintainers et al own it. | 21:56 |
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| oshin | then i shouldn't distribute the binary | 21:57 |
| javispedro | so I wonder how did that end | 21:57 |
| oshin | but for the sake of that, i feel no guilt to distribute it pirately | 21:57 |
| oshin | thanks, will just move this off topic | 21:58 |
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| rysiek|pl | hello guys | 21:58 |
| rysiek|pl | I have a PA 0.9.15 on my n900 and 0.9.22 on my kubuntu laptop; when I try to send a stream from the laptop to the n900, I get: | 21:59 |
| rysiek|pl | E: protocol-native.c: protocol error, kicking client | 21:59 |
| rysiek|pl | #pulseaudio guys tell me that it's a nokia/fremantle related mismatch | 21:59 |
| javispedro | iirc this was discussed in talk.maemo.org | 21:59 |
| rysiek|pl | javispedro: yeah, reading that a third time now | 22:00 |
| oshin | MohammadAG, btw, the syntax wasn't a part of language but a preprocessing | 22:00 |
| oshin | #define whatever.. | 22:00 |
| rysiek|pl | javispedro: no real solution there (copying n900's PA client libs to the lappy doesn't sound like one) | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG | oshin, so that's not a variable? | 22:01 |
| javispedro | rysiek|pl: building 0.9.10 on the lappy might | 22:01 |
| oshin | no, it's like compiler defined.. more like macro | 22:01 |
| rysiek|pl | javispedro: hmmm... yeah, might. tempting | 22:01 |
| MohammadAG | oshin, so how do I define a variable? | 22:01 |
| oshin | it's an assignment but in a compile time, not runtime. | 22:01 |
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| MohammadAG | oshin, question still stands, const? | 22:02 |
| oshin | char * something = "something"; | 22:02 |
| javispedro | rysiek|pl: either way, if you could research this "nokia mismatch" and document it... =) | 22:02 |
| MohammadAG | with a space between * and something? | 22:02 |
| oshin | well, depends on the framework you are using too. | 22:02 |
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| oshin | MohammadAG, up to you | 22:02 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: you're trying to learn C on a IRC channel? | 22:02 |
| oshin | i love space for clean | 22:02 |
| oshin | lol | 22:02 |
| rysiek|pl | javispedro: or I could get back to the "FLOSS in Schools" project I'm coordinating for a foundation here in Poland... ;) | 22:02 |
| oshin | but.. | 22:02 |
| oshin | char *something = ""; that's c variable | 22:03 |
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| oshin | i think qt use QString something? | 22:03 |
| oshin | which is a class | 22:03 |
| javispedro | yep | 22:03 |
| * MohammadAG forgot about that | 22:03 | |
| MohammadAG | ty | 22:03 |
| oshin | you know you can represent string in many ways. | 22:03 |
| rysiek|pl | javispedro: I think I'll just fire up a 0.9.10 compilation on the lappy and hope for the best, leaving the technicalities to more knowledgable | 22:03 |
| javispedro | rysiek|pl: np | 22:04 |
| * oshin admits finally he didn't know c++ | 22:04 | |
| oshin | (has seen some chunks) | 22:04 |
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| petteri | I am porting a gtk app n900. When I start it with run-standalone.sh it works fine, but when I start it from menu, it closes just before the screen goes blank | 22:12 |
| petteri | any suggestions what might be the problem? | 22:12 |
| oshin | may be you can start it by strace? | 22:12 |
| oshin | or invoke it through a terminal and see if you get some logs | 22:13 |
| oshin | but there should be a better way to get some logs. | 22:13 |
| petteri | if I start it from terminal it works fine | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG | check the .desktop and .service files | 22:13 |
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| petteri | i think it is related to screesaver, maybe it stops all apps when the screen goes blank or somehing | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | there aren't any screensaver | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | there aren't any screensavers* | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | yay, segfault | 22:14 |
| ShadowJK | no apps are forcibly stopped | 22:14 |
| ShadowJK | nor paused | 22:15 |
| petteri | ok... seems strange. The works just fine when run with run-stanalone.sh after screen goes blank | 22:15 |
| petteri | , but not when started from menu | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> check the .desktop and .service files | 22:16 |
| petteri | what should I look from those? | 22:16 |
| MohammadAG | Exec= | 22:17 |
| petteri | they are quite simple done as instructted on the wikipage | 22:17 |
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| MohammadAG | you made them? | 22:17 |
| petteri | yes | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | well that sorta pinpoints the problem :P | 22:17 |
| petteri | why? | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | paste the .desktop and .service files on pastebin.com | 22:17 |
| petteri | ok, just a sec | 22:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I doubt it's related to screen dimming at all. more likely it's the welknown quite after 90s | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | well known quit | 22:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wild guess: stdout unassigned | 22:20 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what 90s | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | or some dbus thing maybe | 22:20 |
| MohammadAG | wtf? | 22:20 |
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| oshin | could be something to do with envvar? | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | never seen this? app closing after some 90 or 120s. I encountered this on fahrplan and a number of other apps | 22:21 |
| javispedro | it is a dbus thing | 22:21 |
| javispedro | basically | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I thought he said it doesn't start | 22:21 |
| petteri | hmm.. found additional "/" in my X-Osso-Service. I will try to fix it before making anymore questions :) | 22:21 |
| javispedro | either you're not answering to your "top" (exact method name I don't remember) method call, | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG | oh nvm | 22:22 |
| javispedro | or the bus name you're registering does not match what dbus expects | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>... it closes just before the screen goes blank<< | 22:22 |
| * oshin starts writing down all the symptoms on the whiteboard. | 22:22 | |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, sorry, missed that | 22:23 |
| rysiek|pl | javispedro: somebody writes there about "PA Client Libraries" - which are those? do you remember? | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi, Greg | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | GregOshin | 22:23 |
| oshin | lol | 22:24 |
| javispedro | rysiek|pl: libpulse, libpulsecore, ... many to remember. | 22:24 |
| rysiek|pl | right, thanks | 22:24 |
| javispedro | rysiek|pl: basically you should build it, install it to a prefix, then LD_LIBRARY_PATH your binary to it. | 22:24 |
| javispedro | it=pulse | 22:24 |
| rysiek|pl | javispedro: yeah, that seems the easiest | 22:24 |
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| Gh0sty | how to see the version of maemo? :/ | 22:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | osso-product-info | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | or settings->about | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | petteri: well, X-Osso-Service is about dbus, so it's most likely exactly what javispedro and I said | 22:30 |
| petteri | i think i found it my #define PACKAGE_DBUS_NAME has a typo. I will try to fix it | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 22:32 |
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| Otacon22 | It is cool to be root just writing "root" on the shell, anyway can I set a password :/ ? | 22:50 |
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| rpgdude | i am having a problem with hermes app | 22:51 |
| rpgdude | when i click clear authorisation, nothing happens | 22:51 |
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| rpgdude | i just deleted my facebook account, so i want to clear out the settings | 22:51 |
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| petteri | thanks every one. Fixed my bug. It was the dbus name | 23:03 |
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| nox- | moin | 23:32 |
| alterego | moan | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | you asked for it | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | ~rape alterego | 23:33 |
| * infobot takes alterego behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams | 23:33 | |
| MohammadAG | (one question, why walmart?) | 23:33 |
| alterego | Yeah, I'm in the UK | 23:34 |
| alterego | I can't install it MohammadAG | 23:35 |
| alterego | Some screwed dependency issues | 23:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, for Walmart probably check last 10 years' US/UK newspapers | 23:39 |
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| ieatlint | MohammadAG: ever seen the movie deliverance? | 23:45 |
| ieatlint | that's why | 23:45 |
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