IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-10-22

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Venemo_N810good night guys00:17
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ieatlintwow, what city is that?00:25
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GAN900kerio, Hand Banana!00:26
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DocScrutinizerlo GAN90000:29
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ieatlintno more banana00:29
Goliath23can someone please try to install buliscores from extras-devel and tell me if it works?00:30
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javispedrocould anyone confirm me that on this page :00:37
javispedro"Sitting on table(left edge down)" is wrong?00:37
lcukhiya TermanaDesire00:37
javispedrodisregard that, I think I'm swapping this somewhere..00:38
lcukjavispedro, yeah you are i just confirmed it00:39
javispedrothanks lcuk!00:39
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lcukwhen sat on desk on its stand would be another one:   0,-450,-900 (ish)00:41
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orospakrso, with almost half a week with my N900, I've got to say that one of the biggest weaknesses is the lack of hardware navigation buttons like Android mandates. (Home, Back, End, and Call in particular. Menu would be good too)00:41
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ieatlintah, what a great time to live in... i fill out a form on a website, and 30min later unhealthy food is delivered to my door00:42
RST38hjavis: accelerometer docs are correct00:43
lcukieatlint, wow, you work too hard!00:43
* SpeedEvil has done 99.9% of grocery shopping in last year online.00:43
ieatlintlcuk: dude, i have to walk all the way to the door when they knock00:43
lcukfor thousands of years mankind has been able to merely shout for dinner from his wife :P00:43
lcukyou must be mixing up the hunter gathering with the cooking ;)00:44
SpeedEvilWith the aid of wget, awk and friends to sort by price.00:44
javispedroyeah, I'm starting to become crazy after rotating and rotating and rescaling stuff00:44
ieatlintoh, i do that with my gf... but she's not here right now00:44
RST38hlcuk: I am afraid that is gone now, too.00:44
lcukRST38h, yes00:44
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* RST38h mourns decline of humanity, etc00:45
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RST38hsleep time00:47
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ieatlintooh, 2.6.36 is out00:49
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SpeedEvilCompletely random query. I'm looking for some stock/book-keeping package, that will enable me to track both budget, and stuff like how many bean-cans I have, and how much stock I have at average use-rate of them.00:55
SpeedEvilI don't expect this to be on maemo - but is there a generic linux package?00:55
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sivangArGGu^^: same here, been busy again with day job to heavily. I'm considering though only concentrating in mobile development and working on meego stuff..01:02
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corecodeoh wow, seems something in gtalk changed; can't get a connection with my n900 anymore01:12
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corecodeanybody using gtalk to n900?01:12
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crashanddieturn wifi on.01:15
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ArGGu^^sivang ok01:18
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sivangcrashanddie: it is more than that- I've been having trouble connecting to gmail the last week or so, even though everything was set network wise.01:24
sivangcrashanddie: I wonder if some protocol patch is neded.01:24
crashanddiecorecode == sivang?01:24
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sivangcrashanddie: hrm no :) but I just noted I also experienced this issue lately01:26
crashanddienot had any issues here01:26
crashanddieprobably your ISP/mobile provider doing some foo.01:27
sivangcrashanddie: it does seem to be better through 3G data , so yes :)01:27
sivangcrashanddie: still take a while to login, but eventually succeeds.01:27
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sivangcrashanddie: how's that project going that you told me about?01:30
* sivang is hacking on a pyhon based key/value store with plugin backend architecture01:31
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javispedrooh, yet another company using the (old) logo01:43
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javispedroas maemo logo01:44
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TermanaDesireMy n900 is dead01:46
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TermanaDesireSomeone in the family allowed it to take a swim for a while it seems01:47
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iliusI can not find Maep cache files anyway!!01:50
iliusBut thats claet01:50
iliusthats clear it does not download maps more than one time01:51
SpeedEvilTermanaDesire: :(01:51
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TermanaDesireSpeedEvil - I am a sad panda. And I don't think drying it out will help. The sim tray is discoloured so, I think in the water for too long01:55
TermanaDesireIt was in*01:55
sivangTermanaDesire: :/01:56
sivangTermanaDesire: if I get to work for a major phone vendor and its software products I promis to buy you a new one and send it to you01:56
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TermanaDesireHa ha thanks sivang ;p01:57
sivangTermanaDesire: although this things annoys me greatly, just as someone bumped into me in Munich and trashed the iris of the N900 camera and it is now squicky and broken, still you have to udnerstand this are just things :) and people are more important, although those amazing devices can help keep you company when people are not avail or failed you :)|01:58
TermanaDesireI know some people that will. Be happy though01:58
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sivangTermanaDesire: that will buy you a new N900 ?01:58
TermanaDesireDesire users. Since I'll be making sure meego works good on it now, instead of just my half hearted port01:59
sivangSpeedEvil: ?02:00
DocScrutinizerTermanaDesire: remove batery *immediately*02:01
sivanghey DocScrutinizer02:02
TermanaDesireDocScrutinizer: already have02:02
Pavlov_i used to have a calendar synced using exchange sync on my n90002:02
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Pavlov_but i apparently don't anymore02:02
Pavlov_but i have all the stuff in my calendar still02:02
Pavlov_whats the best way to delete all of that stuff?02:02
DocScrutinizerTermanaDesire: then dry the device for at least 2 weeks, at a warm place02:02
sivangits alive!!!!02:03
sivangor can be brought, alive02:03
sivangat least.02:03
* sivang feels like Frenkenstein02:03
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TermanaDesiresivang: Ha ha. Well I hope this works and brings it alive02:04
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TermanaDesireDocScrutinizer: okey dokey thanks. Now to find somewhere warm02:05
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DocScrutinizerTermanaDesire: was the water sufficiently clean? or you should really rinse the device with demineralized water02:06
javispedroouch, sorry to hear that.02:06
TermanaDesireDocScrutinizer: not sure. I woke up and found it out of the water02:07
DocScrutinizerwhich water?02:07
DocScrutinizera muddy lake with fish and green?02:07
TermanaDesireDocScrutinizer: I don't know, it wasn't near water when I found it02:07
DocScrutinizera toilet with cleaner chemicals?02:08
javispedromagic water!02:08
TermanaDesireNo, it would have been some sort of sink water I would say02:08
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DocScrutinizerTermanaDesire: well, usually electronic devices have no water soluble substances inside that can break from water. It's just the corrosion from water + voltage, or the dirt in the water remaining between contacts after H2O evaporated. So if you're removing all voltage sources fast enough, and thoroughly dry the device, and there's no residues left from dirt in the water, there should be a fair chance to recover it02:11
corecodesivang: yea02:12
corecodesivang: something is fishy02:13
DocScrutinizerspeakers etc might suffer02:13
corecodewtf it works02:13
corecodefrom linux02:14
corecodemaybe the windows thing doesn't work02:14
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pupnik   Unusual Disk Latency discovered in server room.  (no spoilers)02:25
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nox-old but still funny :)02:47
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javispedrovirtually as restricting as iphone's, or even worse03:20
javispedro"no games of russian roulette" wtf??03:20
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nox-maybe that relates to chatroulette? :)03:20
javispedroalso, you cannot portray apple as an enemy in your shooting game =)03:21
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ieatlintoh god, they're doing it all again03:23
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* nox- wonders when osx will need to be `jailbroken' too...03:23
ieatlintthe anti-competitive clause... "Apps that look similar to Apple Products or apps bundled on the Mac, including the Finder, iChat, iTunes, and Dashboard, will be rejected"03:23
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ieatlintnox-: that's just scaremongering... there is absolutely no discussion or suggestion from anything even kind of reliable to suggest that apple will restrict software like that on osx03:24
TermanaDesirenox-: what do you think they are doing it for03:24
TermanaDesireAs soon as enough apps are on the store and eeveryone is rosy03:25
ieatlintthey're doing it because it's an awesome way to make money -- look at steam03:25
TermanaDesireThey will lock it down sand make you their bitch03:25
ieatlintintel just launched a near-identical (but less restricted in various ways) version for windows last month03:25
TermanaDesireEverything g*03:25
ieatlintand are prepping for a linux release in the near future (meego target)03:26
* TermanaDesire kills virtual keyboard03:26
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ieatlinti will say i like this rule: 7.6 In general, the more expensive your app, the more thoroughly we will review it.03:26
javispedromental note: make my first os x avail on app store for $003:27
javispedro*my first os x virus =)03:27
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ieatlinti have to say, i like that intel allows people to use gpl software in their app store (including handling the source code distribution for you)03:29
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ieatlintallows people to write an app under the gpl, and release it for $1003:30
nox-do they allow bsdl/mit/boostl too?03:30
ieatlinti didn't ask... would need to look it up03:30
ieatlinti would assume bsd at least03:31
TermanaDesirenox-: they aren't copyleft so it doesn't matter03:31
ieatlinti think they also said lgpl03:31
* DocScrutinizer powers up the MTHEL array and programs target identifying patterns for any sw coming from Cupertino for maemo03:31
ieatlintwell, they aren't copyleft, but there is the question if they'll handle source distribution for you without it being gpl, and display licences as required to end users03:32
nox-TermanaDesire, ok03:32
* DocScrutinizer melts down a BTS tower with one of the MTHELs, just for the fun of it, and to test once more03:34
DocScrutinizerhmm, we got 6 TV chan here since ~1988, including RTL (RadioTelevisionLuxemburg). Some couple a' years ago all went DVBT and more chan and also actually less quality (artifacts etc). Now they claim they want to harvest the "digital payback" and use channels 60+ for some sorta weird WiMAX. RTL transponder is in that range, so now no more RTL over the air, first time since >20y. Hooray for technical progress03:40
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: wouldn't be worse than here, where they have basically restandarized "national" dvb-t three times already and aiming for the fourth03:44
javispedro.... requiring new decoders where firmware was not updatable / decoder cpu not powerful enough ...03:44
DocScrutinizerisn't it nice how they always try to get the best for us (or was it *from* us?)03:44
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javispedrothat's 2010 technical progress for ya!03:46
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ieatlintheh, they've only ever changed the broadcast tv format once here since it was first introduced03:46
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DocScrutinizeryou know the movie "Contact" with Jodie Foster?03:46
javispedroone of my favourites03:47
DocScrutinizerin 10 years, when they answer, nobody here will have the equipment to decode :-S03:47
javispedrogood point actually.03:47
javispedroa year ago or so I found a floppy of mine with .pcx pictures on it03:48
javispedrowere not a OSS user, I would've had a hard time opening them...03:48
ieatlinti like that .. "we can't change the tv broadcast format again! how will we be able to understand the aliens when they talk to us if we do?!"03:48
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ieatlinti've heard politicians say weirder things though03:49
javispedrofor sciencie!03:49
javispedroseriouuuusllllllllllly... why couldn't Nokia get some commercial game devs on board.03:50
DocScrutinizercause commercial grade devels aren't allowed at Nokia :-P03:51
javispedrothe 30th most popular games could all be ported in, like, 3 minutes. they're already ported from random weirdo mobile phones03:51
javispedrothe pre does not have any drm at all, even the store is a damn debian repository03:51
javispedroso what's the excuse??03:51
ieatlinttoo niche03:52
ieatlintmaemo has reached end of life on the n90003:52
DocScrutinizer*differentiation* X-P03:52
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javispedroand guess what? the pre 1 is getting webos203:52
* javispedro has a "lack of faith moment"... hopefully there's no darth vader nearby to strangle him03:53
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ieatlintwhat stll most bothers me is a lack of decent maps03:55
* javispedro curses and blasphemes03:56
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javispedro$ cp -r /some/nfs/big/dir/ .03:56
javispedroBus error03:56
TermanaDesireJust on the subject on TV broadcasts - here in Australia all analog TV is being switched off in December03:56
TermanaDesireMerry Christmas!03:56
javispedroTermanaDesire: and a happy new analog^W digital year!03:57
ieatlintTermanaDesire: happened here in the states recently03:57
javispedrohow the fsck can a nfs read fail with bus error.03:57
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ebzzryHi! Is anybody here using pidgin from -testing?04:07
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: depends on what a buserror really means04:22
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MrPPShey, just wondering how you hit the "Alt" key in the terminal of the N900? i'm running irssi, and can't seem to change the channel using alt (have the same trouble using Finch)04:27
Noma_Esc is also meta-key04:27
MrPPSso just hitting esc + 2 say would do it?04:28
MrPPSthat works04:30
MrPPSthanks so much04:30
javispedroNASA finds gold on the Moon!04:32
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* javispedro is surprised at the sgx's power... hmpf.04:43
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TermanaDesirejavispedro: that's the power of sgx04:53
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javispedro (going to remove it soon...)04:53
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TermanaDesirejavispedro: I meant all the quits - anyhow what game is that? :p04:56
javispedroI don't even know the full name =) Some Pre game.04:56
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SpeedEvilHow is pre stuff sold - is there a marketplace?05:00
javispedrobehind the scenes it is basically a repo05:01
javispedroovi store-style.05:01
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javispedroThere are also homebrew apps -- including someone's port of my own SNES emulator -- but of course the screenshots aren't as flashy.05:03
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javispedroNo wonder Ari Jaaksi went to Palm/HP =)05:05
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Termanagood morning raster05:57
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rasterTermana: and a fine top 'o tha morning to ya!05:58
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vdvhave anybody tried to get jdk or jre on n900 running? or is it really impossible?06:21
jpinx-eeepcvdv: haven't tried yet - but it's on my todo list ;)06:22
vdvjpinx-eeepc, do you maybe use some usenet reader?06:24
ShadowJKi thought I saw a jre in extras06:24
ShadowJKor atleast on tmo06:24
jpinx-eeepcnope - for a money market application06:24
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pigeonthere's icetea6 in the repo, which is a jre07:35
pigeonjavac is included too in fact...07:35
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pigeonsorry, icedtea6, is the package name.07:37
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RobbieThe1stJust out of curiosity, does stop responding once in a while for you guys?08:45
Stskeepsthere's a backup script problem i think08:46
RobbieThe1stThat makes sense - CPU overload = no connections being handled?08:46
sejois maemo still being developed? like bugfixes etc?08:47
sejoor is all the work put in meego?08:47
Stskeepsyes, there's bugfixes still but not features probably08:47
RobbieThe1stIt depends on who's doing it. There are definately third-party developers still working on it. Nokia however... It's as Stskeeps said.08:48
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* RST38h moos at Stskeeps08:49
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sejohmm tablets-dev down?08:50
sejoneed the EMMC image08:50
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sejogoing for a full reset bugger still gives internal errors08:51
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sejoAn error occurred while processing your request.08:54
sejoReference #97.c959d50.1287726738.5e594b608:54
Stskeepsinternal errors? overclocked?08:54
sejoStskeeps: nope08:54
sejothat's for the website08:54
sejoI get internal errors with the sharing plugins08:54
slonopotamusStskeeps: troll08:55
Stskeepsslonopotamus: no, seriously, people have been getting emmc bad sectors cos of overclocking08:55
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sejobasicly if i can't get it working today I'll switch to another phone (really need it)08:55
sejoI didn't overclock my n90008:55
RobbieThe1stWhat error are you running into, specifically?08:55
RobbieThe1stAnd, how to reproduce?08:56
sejoRobbieThe1st: Internal Error: Application "Settings" closed08:56
sejowhen trying to add a sharing account08:56
slonopotamusi get good mmc sectors cos of overclocking08:56
slonopotamusand clear screen view :P08:56
slonopotamusoh, and good 3g connection08:56
sejoRobbieThe1st: go to settings, then sharing accounts, add whatever you want and it crashes08:56
RobbieThe1stI'll try08:56
slonopotamusand OC makes my daughter sleep longer (she stops waking up at 6am if i overclock my n900)08:57
sejoI'm trying the twitter one (that uses the pixelpipe)08:57
slonopotamusStskeeps: those events have similar connection to OC as mmc bad blocks08:57
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RobbieThe1stI don't see any twitter sharing account on mine08:58
RobbieThe1stslonopotamus: Yea, I don't have any issues either.08:58
sejobeen running into it for the last week08:58
sejoRobbieThe1st: it's in the app manager08:58
RobbieThe1stWell, I'm guessing there's a glitch with that specific plugin then08:59
RobbieThe1stProbably -not- your N90008:59
sejoRobbieThe1st: you get the same error with the ovi plugin or the flickr plugin08:59
sejothere are bugs about it09:00
sejowith full traces09:00
sejowaiting for them to be fixed09:00
RobbieThe1stHuh - I don't; I just get "input username and password"09:00
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RobbieThe1stAnd as I don't have any accounts with any of those vendors...09:00
povbotBug 10089: Cannot create Flickr sharing account: "Internal error. Application 'Settings' closed."09:01
sejoit's the same error09:01
RobbieThe1stSo, point is, it's a glitch in the software. Flashing your eMMC's not going to help09:02
RobbieThe1stYou can try installing a 3rd-party application that does something similar, or just go without09:02
sejonew phone then09:03
sejoit's a shame I adore my n90009:03
RobbieThe1stWhat the hell do you -need- twitter for anyway?09:03
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sejoRobbieThe1st: we have an internal install (client I work for) and I need to upload certain pics to it09:03
RobbieThe1stEspecially considering you have things like TweeGo, or just a web-browser...09:03
sejotweego doesn't work with pi.pe09:04
RobbieThe1stHm... You could always ask about that in the TweeGo topic on the forums09:04
RobbieThe1stOr, what about simply using the browser?09:05
sejoRobbieThe1st: that's a drag to upload pics09:05
sejothat's how i do it now09:05
sejobut it takes way too much time09:05
RobbieThe1stHm... I'd make a post on the forums09:05
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sejowhat for? there are already posts about the error, no fix resulted in that09:06
RobbieThe1stBeing a Linux phone, I'm sure someone would have a solution like "download this script, then run ./ ./path/to/upload/09:06
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RobbieThe1stThe N900's greatness is in its -non- nokia stuff. Nokia, honestly, didn't do very well in making it.09:07
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johnxthey did great with the hardware09:08
johnxI love the "well our SoC supports these things, so let's make sure our phone supports them."09:08
sejoI like the phone but it's weird i'd use to be able to do the uploads09:09
johnxthe N900 is like an example of everything an OMAP3 will support09:09
RobbieThe1st is this sort of what you want?09:09
sejothat might help yes09:10
sejostill annoyed that the software provided doesn't work09:10
RobbieThe1stYou can try downloading and extracting it; Its Python, so it'd work09:10
RobbieThe1stSo do the other 10,000+ people complaining on the forums09:11
johnxsejo, by "software provided" you mean the 3rd-part sharing plugin?09:11
RobbieThe1stThat too...09:11
sejono even the flickr one doesn't work09:11
sejonor the ovi one09:11
johnxworks for me (tm)09:11
johnxI wonder if there's not something else going on ...09:11
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sejothere probably is that's why I wanted to flash it completely09:12
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RobbieThe1stWell, you can always try09:13
johnxif it were me (and I actually cared about the sharing plugin, and really wanted to prove where the bug was), I'd: 1) reflash firmware and eMMC 2) beat on the flickr plugin before even restoring your data09:13
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johnxthen restore your data and play with flickr more, then install the twitter plugin09:14
sejojohnx: that was the goal but I can't download the EMMC image09:14
johnxmaybe reverse those last two steps ...09:14
johnxwhy not?09:14
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sejoach now it works09:14
sejoserver gave an error09:14
johnxyou're welcome :)09:14
sejoReference #97.c959d50.1287726738.5e594b609:14
sejodid you fix the server?09:14
johnxmy presence causes people to not be able to reproduce problems :)09:14
johnxnah, I don't work for nokia09:15
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johnxmy job isn't to fix things, just take the credit09:15
ieatlinti think i might know you then09:16
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sejoso first the combined flash then the EMMC right?09:16
RobbieThe1stWait an hour or so09:16
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johnxsejo, flash one, than the other without rebooting09:17
sejoRobbieThe1st: eh?09:17
johnxas long as you don't reboot in between it doesn't matter09:17
RobbieThe1stI assume it's a temporary priblem09:17
johnxnow here's an interesting thing, while playing with the sharing setup I managed to cause the same error as in the bug report09:17
sejoit's been giving me problems since beginning of the week09:17
johnxbut I can't repro it ...09:17
sejojohnx: try to add an account, delete it and add it again... it will fail09:18
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johnxdeleted, re-added, validated (ovi)09:19
johnxI don't want to risk losing my flickr profile and needing to reflash :)09:19
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johnxyou could also probably add your account through gconf09:20
johnxor clean up the settings related to it09:20
sejojohnx: if I found it I could indeed09:20
johnxwant a hint?09:20
sejoi deleted the .signond/userinfo.xml09:21
sejobut that didn't help09:21
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RobbieThe1stHm... can it be manually entered via vim?09:23
RobbieThe1stBeing a Linux system, I assume so, if you can find the right config file09:23
sejowell I looked at it... but it was all garbled09:23
sejono xml in there09:23
johnxwild. looks like it's really config'ed on disk instead of in gconf09:23
sejojohnx: but where?09:24
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sejoin the signond?09:24
johnxbut it's not in gconf09:24
sejonope it isn't09:24
johnxI did: gconftool -R / | grep -C10 -i sharing09:24
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sejoi should strace it09:24
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johnxI found /apps/maemo/sharing with a key (?) "done = true"09:25
johnxbut that doesn't make much sense09:25
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johnxalso, I don't have a .signond at all09:25
RobbieThe1stAsk Sts?09:25
johnxI have a .signon but its contents are "user_db.xml" (which is binary)09:25
Stskeepsi don't know jack09:25
sejoyeah that's the one09:26
johnxRobbieThe1st, nah. I need him to get back to work on MeeGo09:26
* johnx cracks the whipe09:26
johnx<- tired09:26
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johnxwow. I have no idea what kind of data is contained in that file ...09:27
johnxand neither does the 'file' command on my desktop09:27
johnxsoooo, good luck. I've got work stuff to do, but if you need me to double-check something you can ping me09:28
sejojohnx: k thx anyway09:28
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lardman|homemorning chaps09:38
lardman|homeanyone know if QtMobility contacts works on the N900 contacts data yet?09:38
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jarkkomlardman|home, at least it's supposed to:
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sejojohnx: after full reflash everything works10:10
sejonow to reinstall the apps i had :p10:10
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johnxsejo, darn. I wished I asked you to do a dump of gconf's /apps/maemo/sharing10:20
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crashanddie_morning geeks10:27
crashanddie_hey sejo, how are you?10:28
sejojohnx: if i ever reflash it i'll do it10:28
crashanddie_apologies for yesterday, btw10:28
sejocrashanddie: good, finally got the twitpic stuff working10:28
crashanddie_integration with the API?10:28
sejocrashanddie: no apologies needed...10:28
crashanddie_Or with the media sharing thingie on N900?10:28
sejocrashanddie: media sharing10:28
sejoit doesn't crash anymore a full reset (EMMC and COMBINED) was needed though10:29
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luccinii have a queation this tweak flah ive reading about its bad isnt it?10:45
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lucciniis there an alt way to update flah for maemo 5?10:46
lucciniadobe or marcomedia10:46
luccinii see10:46
ieatlintor rather, yes, it's bad; no, there's no way to upgrade it10:46
lucciniits a shame for a portable computer to not be able to update flash player10:47
ieatlintblame adobe10:47
luccinior nokia witch lock it rite?10:47
ieatlintthey don't release an updated linux arm version, and we don't get it10:47
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Myrttilock what?10:48
ieatlintno, there is no lock of any kind like that on the phone10:48
lucciniwell as far as i know nokia they lock things like flash players on most phones from being updateing10:48
lucciniso is there no marcomedia as alt?10:49
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luccinior shockwave10:49
psycho_oreosmacromedia was bought by adobe10:49
ieatlinti can't speak to symbian, but on maemo, there is no lock like that, at all10:49
lucciniw\e they are called10:49
luccinii see10:49
MyrttiFlash is a proprietary software from Adobe. If they don't compile one for ARM, then there is no Flash.10:49
ieatlintwere adobe to release an updated linux arm flash player, it would work on the phone, with or without nokia's consent10:49
Myrttithey've done one ages ago, that's the one you've go10:49
psycho_oreosand no, you can upgrade flash if you can compile the source for it which Adobe will never offer for free10:50
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psycho_oreosadobe-flashplayer is actually visible inside installed packages10:50
luccinii see same thing happends with microsoft silverlight10:51
luccinisome pages needs silvelight witch phones dont support10:52
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lucciniand there isnt a browser that has flash plugins that be able to update?10:53
luccinilike firefox on a windows pc10:53
psycho_oreoswindows pc runs on x86 architecture which is completely different from N900's ARM architecture10:54
Myrttithe problem is the flash, not the browser10:54
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psycho_oreosand no there's no real alternatives as mentioned previously10:54
ebzzryHi! Is the current fcamera in -testing compatible with Titan's kernel?10:54
lucciniwell as far as i kniow firefox has its own flah player rite?10:54
* RST38h sighs10:54
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RST38hlet us just make "flash player" a bannable subject already...10:55
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lucciniits just a need to have app10:55
lucciniits needed in most webpages10:55
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ieatlintto be pedantic, browsers don't update flash10:56
kerioebzzry: i think so10:56
luccinii see10:56
Myrttiisn't gnash or swfdec compilable on ARM?10:56
ebzzrykerio: the last time I tried it, it almost bricked my device.10:56
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ieatlintanyway, you're talking to a bunch of people who have no control10:56
RST38hluccini: Here is a thread for you. Make sure you read the whole thread. Somewhere in the middle, there are instructions on how to get latest flashplayer 10 work on your N900.10:56
RST38hluccini: Make sure you read the whole thing before you come back here with questions about flashplayer, ok?10:57
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ebzzrykerio: Do you have things that would confirm that it is indeed safe?10:59
luccinito many pages and not enuough time to read11:00
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RST38hYou think we have enough time to hear the same sentiments again and again here?11:01
psycho_oreosindeed the impatient gets really desperate and lazy11:01
lucciniwell if you guys know it then make a tut for it11:01
psycho_oreosbiting the hand that feeds11:01
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lucciniif you dont wanna support oters with maemo then you shouldnt be here rite?11:02
achipaLet's keep it short. Flash must die, not because of the tech, but because of how it's run. Qt Quick is the new Flash. EOT.11:02
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Termanaachipa, agreed that Flash must die.11:03
psycho_oreosyou obviously haven't been here long enough luccini.. you don't go complaining when someone gave you a pointer11:03
X-FadeThe main reason for flash still to exist is playing web video. If browsers finally will handle this themselves, we should be ok. :)11:03
TermanaAlso, you *can* *cough* get an update for Flash for OMAP3 *cough*. But if you can't find it yourself, I'm not helping you.11:03
X-FadeBut that one is still not using hardware accell, right?11:04
TermanaX-Fade, no it's not afaik11:04
X-FadePretty useless then :)11:04
TermanaX-Fade, but I mean, that doesn't put you in a worse position than before :p11:05
lucciniwell i should thank you i guess seems its going to take a couple of days but ok i just might get a beter phone next time11:05
X-FadeNo, but doesn't improve much either.11:05
Termana(Since Flash isn't accelerated on the n900 to begin with IIRC)11:05
TermanaX-Fade, I think people are only looking for Flash 10 for the fact that sites are flicking the switch on Flash 911:06
X-FadeWell, it isn't accelerated on other phones either.11:06
X-FadeYeah, but the version number hack works fine for that.11:06
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TermanaX-Fade, except for sites that use new Flash 10 features11:06
X-FadeIndeed, but are there much of those out there?11:06
TermanaX-Fade, not really sure. I disable flash most of the time for anything I touch :p11:07
RST38hachipa: Just yesterday, the subject of using QtQuick for somethign useful came up on #meego. Looks like it is a bit too early for that.11:07
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RST38hTermana: It would probably be fun to make a survey of all these Flash-loving Maemo users, asking them for URLs they need Flash10 to access11:09
achipaRST38h: I'm not saying QtQuick is already there right now, Flash has a 10+ year headstart, but QtQuick *CAN* cover every aspect of what Flash does, and potentially better on the long run11:09
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RST38hTermana: My guess is that 70% will say that they do not have any Flash10-specific URLs in mind, while the remaining 30% will give Facebook URL :)11:09
RST38hachipa: Yea, and then it becomes the same thing as Flash. Even using the same ECMAScript :)11:10
TermanaRST38h, mmm. I only use it on the desktop for YouTube videos that won't display as HTML5 and on the N900 I used an application to view youtube, and I didn't use flash for anything else11:10
RST38hYouTube does not require Flash10 though, does it?11:10
TermanaRST38h, I don't think so, to my knowledge. But I was just commenting on my general use of flash at all11:11
achipaRST38h: the same thing except it is Free and more powerful and more cross platform and... need I go on ?11:11
RST38hMmmm, probably not, I understood your excitement.11:11
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crashanddie_don't try to divide 1g by 25k on Google11:12
Termanacrashanddie_, you naughty boy - did you crash one of Google's servers?11:12
achipacrashanddie_:  why ? does it send to police to your address ?11:12
crashanddie_I just got yelled at by boltzmann11:12
Termanacrashanddie_, accidentally divide by 0?11:12
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JaffaMorning, all11:13
Termanamorning Jaffa11:13
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dnearyIt seems to take me longer & longer to get through email every morning11:15
X-Fadedneary: That will only get worse ;)11:17
lcukhey guys \o11:18
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ebzzryIs there a way to enable/disable extras-testing on the command line?11:30
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luccinianywyas bai imheading of buying a dongle for laptop way easyer to use flash and all needing for internet , phones just shouldnt have interne if there is lack of support11:34
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ieatlinti agree, if a phone can't replace my desktop entirely, it's clearly inferior and should not exist11:36
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lucciniyeah whats the deal for an internet phone as they call it nowdays if it dont have support for the most needed thing flashplayer11:37
lucciniits not just maemo but symbian also11:37
RobbieThe1st... The only thing you need flash player for is videos, mostly11:37
luccinithey lack flash support to11:37
luccininot realy11:37
ieatlintluccini: you should get an iphone then11:37
ieatlintit'll solve your problems11:38
luccinithere are flash ebsites like logitech.com11:38
RobbieThe1stThere are a few websites which use it for navigation. The authors should be strung up and shot.11:38
rasterRobbieThe1st: i disagree. i want to see the flashing animated banner and fullscreen advertisements.11:38
RobbieThe1stBut even then, the N900's got flash support11:38 has been at least 30 minutes, and he is STILL raving about flash player?11:38
RobbieThe1straster: :P11:38
rasteri want to feel like i have been a good consumer today and watched my fill of advertising11:38
RST38hmoo, raster11:38
lucciniiphone is shit inothing hear anything thentroubles abot it froom  my cousins11:38
fluxrst38h, the more raving, the more likely flash 10 will get rapidly ported to n900!11:39
RST38hyou should just get yourself a pair of light-up LED horns and install a mirror behind your monitor11:39
ieatlintmore specifically, without flash, how i can i watch
rasterRST38h:  burrp11:39
RobbieThe1stBah, that's the thing - I have flash support on my computer. Full, 10.1 x64 support that works perfectly. I use it about twice per day on average11:39
RobbieThe1stMost of the time, noscript blocks it for me11:39
edheldilapple does not want flash because it would harm their revenue from appstore11:39
RST38hflux: obviously, how have I missed that!11:39
lucciniwell i use it daily for xdcc bots11:40
fluxto be fair, I would have liked to use google streetview from n900, but it doesn't work anymore after they upgraded the service to flash1011:40
RobbieThe1stAs an aside, after using the "tweak flash player" script, I -tried- to find a site that wouldn't work. I couldn't :\11:40
fluxother than that.. hmm..11:40
RobbieThe1stYoutube worked fine11:40
lucciniim one of those anime lovers and daily there is an eps to download11:40
RobbieThe1stWell, frigging download it then11:40
RobbieThe1st.flv files generally play fine in mplayer11:40
RobbieThe1st's what I do11:40
luccinijust that flash player sux i cant access those sites11:41
rasterieatlint: indeed. how could your life be fulfilled without being able to watch that11:41
ieatlinti believe gstreamer on the phone has flv support as well (assuming compatible codec, which is likely)11:41
RobbieThe1stForget about it already, and complain to the management11:41
luccinii cant help it lol11:41
Termanaluccini, piss off and go buy your fucking dongle11:41
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luccinibeing an otaku aint easy11:41
RobbieThe1stWould a ban make it easier?11:41
psycho_oreoswho here have access to their n900 right now? preferably through shell or something like that. I need an unmolested copy of /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/pulse/xpolicy.conf11:41
ieatlintraster: my point exactly! it was a proud day when i could play that on my phone11:41
ieatlinta proud, proud day11:41
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psycho_oreosieatlint, thanks11:43
ieatlintraster: as a side note, that domain is perhaps the most interesting url shortener i've ever come across11:44
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Termanaieatlint, that animation is just strange. :p11:46
ieatlintyes, but also a tad hilarious11:47
RobbieThe1stum... what?11:47
RobbieThe1stI went to that link, I just saw the text of the conf file11:47
ieatlintdifferent link11:47
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psycho_oreosieatlint, would you happen to have tried hacking the silent mode?11:52
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ieatlinti've not modified any pulseaudio related config file11:53
ieatlintin fact, about the only thing that modified standard pr1.2 on my n900 is the power kernel11:53
psycho_oreoshmm bugger, oh well thanks anyways. Trying to get sounds playing through even if the N900 is in silent11:53
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ieatlintthat may not be at all easy... if you bypass as much of pulseaudio's interace as possible, you might have some luck11:54
ieatlintbut i doubt it11:54
psycho_oreosThere is this: but it requires one to have far more knowledge11:55
povbotBug 6694: libplayback missing -doc package11:55
crashanddie_"Waiting for some inspiration, but lacking the human interaction"11:56
psycho_oreoswhat sort of interaction is needed? :o11:58
ieatlintpsycho_oreos: are you writing an app, or trying to configure mplayer or similar?11:58
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psycho_oreosieatlint, trying to get apps working despite N900 is set into silent mode.. this affects a wide variety of apps including the phone UI11:59
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ieatlintsomehow that strikes me as not a bug, but a feature12:00
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ieatlinti don't want my phone to make noise when i put it on silent, be a phone call, or some random app12:00
psycho_oreosbut what if you've got headphone/headset even bluetooth device at that?12:01
Termanatake it off silent?12:01
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TermanaIf you have headphones or a bluetooth speaker in, the only sounds that should play (if they do or not I don't know) is the camera sounds12:02
Termana(through the device instead)12:02
psycho_oreoswell that works but when it comes to receiving phone calls with bluetooth headset N900 will play the ringtone before the bluetooth headset will also play the ringtone12:02
RST38hDr Watson to play Bilbo Baggins in "Hobbit".12:02
f0rkb0mbwow just using xchat on my N900, have to admit thats the cleanest GUI ive seen so far12:03
f0rkb0mbcompared to gftp or irreco for example12:03
crashanddie_"A shareholder of Inc sued the company's board members, accusing the ordained ministers of failing to profit from the "goldmine" potential of the namesake Internet property, according to a lawsuit."12:03
Termanapsycho_oreos, well if that's the case, and it's not suppose to do that, then it's a bug. But you don't make an app to play sounds when it's silent :p12:03
psycho_oreosTermana, no but I rather play it through external sources if they are connected apart from N900's actual speakers12:04
psycho_oreoswhat if you're at work and you want to listen to your own music without it playing through the speakers or using NIT's media player?12:05
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psycho_oreossee its funny, NIT's media player can actually play sounds even if the device is actually in silent mode.. but other apps can't12:06
psycho_oreosand I mean through bluetooth headset in this particular instance12:06
psycho_oreosSince mplayer and pianobar silence with silence mode it's gotta be setting a system volume down.. but the official media player apps such as Youtube and Music use a different volume area that gets around the "silencing".12:07
psycho_oreosbleh I forgot to enclose that in quotes.. meh12:08
psycho_oreosand apparently its a bug that has been fixed/resolved into a version which is not publicly available12:08
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TermanaWell, that was nice. Apparently xorg was saying "Hey there, I'm just going to crash and restart on you for no good reason, is that ok? OF COURSE IT IS, LAL ALLALALA :D))"12:14
psycho_oreosthat's not as bad as having an alarm going off almost randomly because the device was lagging.. you find yourself humiliated in front of others and forced your device to poweroff12:16
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psycho_oreosnothing on the screen and no buttons to mute the alarm as you panic and hit the poweroff12:18
f0rkb0mbbeen there... many times haha12:24
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RST38hah, heya konttori12:41
X-FadeHmm after scratchbox-isms, are we now also getting Qt SDK-isms?
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RST38hNokia staff working on Symbian development in Cambridge were sent home yesterday, while the London crowd sloped off early after being told that 300 will lose their jobs12:51
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ieatlinti've been told in no uncertain terms to never trust anything prints12:52
RST38hThen don't.12:52
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dRbiGgetting rid of symbian - finally12:55
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ieatlintand that's a rumour that was reported yesterday... symbian^3 allegedly will be the final major release, with bugfixes only in the future12:57
ieatlintguess they figure meego 1.2 will be polished enough to hit mainstream12:57
RST38hThat is not the "rumour" reported yesterday12:57
RST38hYesterday "rumour", reported by a Nokia blogger, was that they are dropping ^n naming scheme, and just oncentrate on Symbian, with Qt as UI12:58
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RST38hWhich I believe only when Eikon/Avkon are gone, but not a second before that.12:59
dnearyRST38h, I guess keeping up with exponential growth was too hard12:59
jaskaexponential bloat?:)12:59
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dnearyRST38h, So the next release will be 2sym^4?12:59
dnearyThen 3sym^413:00
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dnearyOr even, sym^4+113:00
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RST38hdneary: Dunno, my personal opinion is that starting with Nokia buying out Symbian Foundation, they all went on hallucinogenic mushrooms13:01
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RST38hdneary: You can clearly see it from their web site artwork, the weird naming scheme, various promises, and so on13:01
ieatlintRST38h: is what i was referring to, not from a nokia blogger... granted i don't speak finnish, so my understanding of the article is through a somewhat poorly translated interpretation...13:02
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ieatlintbut it seems to state that symbian has been discontinued in favour of meego13:03
Stskeepson smartphones maybe, but it's useful for low-end phones13:03
RST38hdneary: + they dropped UIQ people who actually had a clearer idea of the future for Symbian UI (but failed to produce a reliable product)13:03
ieatlintbut, as said, i may be missing something very big here due to the translation13:03
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ieatlintand i'm unfamiliar with the source so as to regard it as authoritative13:04
togglesmeego home now13:04
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petteriieatlint: it just says what RST38h already said13:04
petterithey are not dropping symbian only the naming changes13:04
dnearyRST38h, That seems like a good reason to get rid of people...13:04
ieatlintpetteri: ah, ok13:05
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DocScrutinizermooo wazzup?14:26
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dnearyandre__, Just CCed you on a discussion I just got CCed on, about what to do with Qt documentation bugs that get reported to Bugzilla14:42
dnearyandre__, I'd appreciate your feedback14:42
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pupnik_  3d (perspective) wallpaper for android (can n900 do this??)14:49
DocScrutinizerTermana: you got further details about your water induced fatality?14:51
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pupnik_or does it require a compass or something to get absolute position?14:51
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phrykhow do i get around the easy setup thing for wlan?14:52
phryki just want to input the damn psk14:52
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TermanaDocScrutinizer, hmm, well when I first tried plugging it in (before I felt the water), it would immediately go to a green light, now it sits on yellow for a second and then fades to green14:53
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DocScrutinizerTermana: heh, that's why I ask :-S you're killing the device by trying to operate it 'premature' means prior to drying it for 2 weeks14:54
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jacekowskiTermana: you have to submerge it in distilled water14:55
jacekowskiTermana: and clean it with it14:55
DocScrutinizereven when it seems like working flawlessly odds are your device suffers from corrosion due to remaining water plus electricity14:55
jacekowskiTermana: but ideally you would take it apart14:55
jacekowskiTermana: and clean just pcb14:55
jacekowskiTermana: to avoid more damaging components that can be damaged by water14:55
TermanaIs it better to take it completely apart for drying anyway?14:55
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I suggested that yesterday - seems it doesn't really help14:55
DocScrutinizerTermana: yes14:56
jacekowskiwell, rectified spirit then14:56
jacekowski96% pure alcohol14:56
TermanaBut I suppose I need a torx screwdriver for that :p14:56
DocScrutinizerTermana: if you dare. Then for sure you also should rinse PCB with deminaralized water14:56
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DocScrutinizerplus a PH014:56
jacekowskior pure alcohol14:57
DocScrutinizeror PH1?14:57
jacekowskithat's better14:57
jacekowskibecause it dries faster14:57
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that's what electronics cleaning stuff is based on14:57
jacekowskior isopropyl alcohol14:57
DocScrutinizersome of the plastic or varnish might get damaged by alcohol14:57
TermanaFor some reason, I would hate to see myself squirting more water on it :p14:58
jacekowskithat's not water14:58
jacekowskiit only looks like water14:58
DocScrutinizerget over it14:58
DocScrutinizerdestilled water is a technical substance14:58
jacekowskitake it apart and use isopropyl alcohol if you have it or some vodka14:59
jacekowskior distilled water14:59
DocScrutinizerit's even poison - muhaha14:59
TermanaDocScrutinizer, anyway, you think it's a bad thing that the light has decided to change to yellow to green from just green?14:59
DocScrutinizerNO!!! vodka! NEVER!14:59
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: ?14:59
DocScrutinizervodka is more dirty than tap water15:00
jacekowskii don't want to know what you drink15:00
jacekowskibut if you have like 50% of alcohol in it15:00
jacekowskithen there isn't much stuff that can be in it15:00
jacekowskibut yeah it isn't the best thing to use15:00
DocScrutinizerTermana: use demineralized water. then dry for 2 weeks. and everything will be fine15:01
andre__dneary, thanks, will take a look later15:01
dnearyandre__, Thanks15:01
DocScrutinizerunless you already ruined it by inserting bat & trying to switch on too early15:01
TermanaWhere am I suppose to get demineralized water at 10:30pm in the middle of nowhere to?15:01
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jacekowskiTermana: garage15:03
jacekowskiTermana: where do you live?15:03
jacekowskiTermana: it's the same stuff you use for car bateries15:03
DocScrutinizerTermana: well, I suggested you just try to dry it. if you encounter contact problems or it doesn't work after 2 weeks, then you still may rinse it with demineralized water15:03
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Termanajacekowski, in a rural town. I'm about 70km for any sane town, and that's not a big town. To get to one of those you need to travel 250km :p15:04
DocScrutinizerit's suboptimal, but better than messing around with it now, by using inapropiate means15:04
TermanaDocScrutinizer, mmhmm. You still didn't really say weather the light thing was a good or bad thing :p15:04
DocScrutinizerit's a bad thing as you tried to switch on the phone15:05
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DocScrutinizerdoing this you recharged the fixed backup battery which with a bit of luck got discharged during first incident without corroding the traces and solder points do shit15:06
RST38h"Nokia has bowed to international pressure and agreed to end the cruel and unusual practice of programming natively for the Symbian OS.15:07
DocScrutinizernow it's charged again and continues to corrode traces15:07
StskeepsRST38h: +115:07
hrwwhat would be reaction of maemo community if I would takeover package in extras-devel? original maintainer does not respond to emails or itt posts15:07
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Stskeepshrw: generally just ask on maemo-developers i think15:07
TermanaI'm thinking of buying a safe15:07
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RST38hhrw: Have done that twice15:07
hrwStskeeps: I am not subscribed there15:07
TermanaIf it starts working again, I'm going to lock it in the safe15:07
RST38hhrw: As long as your changes are non-trivial and make it better, why not?15:07
hrwI am a bit tired of apmefo situation. author is MIA, my unofficial package has fixes and improvements15:08
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RST38hhrw: Ah, cool, can I make a personal request?15:08
hrwRST38h: yes - but only in thread15:09
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hrwRST38h: there are other users15:09
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RST38hhrw: done15:11
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hrwreplied: "not by me"15:12
* hrw -> lunch15:12
Conspirestany idea about pr 1.315:13
infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever15:13
Conspirestgood one15:14
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DocScrutinizerAppiah: ??15:17
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DocScrutinizerAppiah: you better check the diferent 1.x versions prior to earning a ~lart for talking about pr>115:20
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RST38hDumb question: how do I change an X11 window title?15:23
DocScrutinizerumm, X does have window titles?15:23
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RST38hthe wm does15:23
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mgedmin(more context needed: from xterm? from a C program linking to libX11? from qt?)15:25
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RST38hmgedmin: from a C program of course15:29
RST38hI said "X11" after all :)15:30
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mgedminRST38h, you want to set the WM_NAME and _NET_WM_NAME window properties then15:30
mgedminthe first has type STRING, the second UTF8_STRING15:30
mgedminthere's also WM_ICON_NAME and _NET_WM_ICON_NAME, used when the window is minimized15:31
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D-Iivil_WorkSomeone help me with shell script: how can I compare date of modification between two files and then do action desired based on the result?15:34
D-Iivil_Work(in N900)15:34
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RST38hmgedmin: aha, thanks =)15:36
mgedmindisclaimer: I've never actually used libX1115:36
mgedminit's possible it has some kind of XSetWindowTitle() function15:36
mgedmininstead of forcing you to deal with X window properties directly15:36
mgedminI'd suggest you take a look at some small app's (xmag, e.g.) sources15:37
SpeedEvilD-Iivil_Work: if [ fileone -nt filetwo ]15:39
SpeedEvilecho newer15:39
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D-Iivil_WorkSpeedEvil, that easy :D15:39
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D-Iivil_WorkSpeedEvil, what I googled was just more or less complex awk scripts :D15:39
SpeedEvilI don't know whrer hte correct list of arguments for the busybox sh is. I look at man bash, and see if stuff works15:40
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D-Iivil_WorkSpeedEvil, so in that example the "fileone" is the one that's being checked if it's never than "filetwo"?15:40
D-Iivil_WorkThanks :)15:42
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DocScrutinizerman test16:02
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RST38hSomeone impersonating MohammadAG?16:07
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: why would you think that?16:11
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RST38hDoc: check out Guest5658516:14
Stskeepsand an IP in germany?16:15
Stskeepssomething's weird here16:15
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DocScrutinizerit seems MohammadAG-51 has decided to /quit which makes ZNC quit the channel. I suggested to him several times not to enable that nickserv enforce option, as he refuses to add credentials to ZNC, so ZNC rejoining IRC doesn't know about authentication and subsequently nick is renamed to guest-nnnn16:16
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: nothing weird here16:16
DocScrutinizerjust my server16:16
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DocScrutinizerlo javispedro16:18
RST38hmoorning to you too javispedro16:18
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG-51: FIX your /ns otion enforce !!16:19
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MohammadAGfucking freenode16:19
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, fix freenode!16:19
MohammadAGfucking piece of shit keeps lagging16:20
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: no, fsckng user not setting up his options so they match his usage profile16:20
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, freenode, not ZNC16:20
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: either you tell ZNC about your credentials so it can authenticate on behalf of you, or you disable that friggin enforce option which otherwise will rename after 20s16:21
MohammadAG2.4s lag, acceptable I guess (on
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I was cycling servers with *status16:21
marmouteMohammadAG: They connection seems ravaged16:22
MohammadAGwhich apparently is connecting to the same server, sigh16:22
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I can fix ZNC to always connect to kornbluth.freenode.net16:23
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: aah, k16:23
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, can you add the servers here to one freenode list?16:23
MohammadAGso when I jump servers it actually does so?16:24
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MohammadAGGAN900, ping?16:24
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GAN900MohammadAG, pong?16:26
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DocScrutinizerIRSeekBot: help16:43
DocScrutinizerIRSeekBot: info16:43
DocScrutinizerIRSeekBot: ?16:43
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer16:43
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b IRSeekBot!*@*16:44
*** IRSeekBot was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)16:44
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DocScrutinizercba, it's not in irseekbot's cloak, nor does the bot react to any polite query as supposed for all bots16:46
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javispedro"Moreover, the Real-Name and User-Name fields will be informative and may contain the URL of IRSeek."16:51
javispedromay? lol16:51
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javispedrowhat kind of self-conscious bot they have that "may" choose his own Real-Name?16:52
DocScrutinizerI'm about to recommend on freenode staff to removing cloak from irseekbot16:52
DocScrutinizerI'm about to recommend on freenode staff to remove cloak from irseekbot and ban16:53
javispedrohaus haus
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ??16:55
DocScrutinizerseen the userlist? o.O16:55
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javispedroyes, I remember that converstation.16:57
javispedrojust searched for a random one16:57
DocScrutinizerwell, seems highly unlikely there's been just 18 users in #maemo at that time16:58
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: I guess the bot only records those that had some lines in the log16:58
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ebzzryUh, what exactly does org-insert-property-drawer do, in relation to what uwjweq said earlier?16:59
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I guess the master of this bot should read about IRC standard policies regarding bots on IRC/freenode16:59
tybollt~slap DocScrutinizer17:00
* infobot slaps DocScrutinizer, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!17:00
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DocScrutinizerjust heard irseekbot service earned a network ban when they started, and freenode staff isn't really in love with them17:18
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DocScrutinizerso, as I usually have "[x]hide join/quit" - please report to me if that bot returns under any similar name or cloak17:19
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RST38hHello, Wazd the Second17:28
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orospakrweird.  the wifi power saving appears different today; now my ssh sessions and pings are stopping routinely after network activity stops on the device, but yesterday I wasn't getting that effect at all (made sure I'm running the same apps with the same amount of chattiness). same network.17:36
javispedroeven network activity from peers could alter power saving behaviour17:36
DocScrutinizerorospakr: consider possible "keep alive" packets from any service like IM, IRC, SIP...17:37
orospakrDocScrutinizer, yup, seems like.17:38
DocScrutinizerthey may keep your wlan up and responsive17:38
orospakralso looking into what the difference between max and intermediate is.17:38
DocScrutinizerhmm, I just know my ZyXEL AP isn't behaving with N900 PSM=max17:39
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orospakrI notice that when my phone hops back on, some of the pings I've sent are immediately replied to.  Who is doing this buffering? the AP?17:40
javispedrosent from where?17:41
orospakrjavispedro, another machine on the network (a desktop), sent to the n900.17:41
javispedrofrom computer -- answer: the AP. from n900 -- answer: nobody .17:41
orospakrpings aren't retransmitted by the sender's stack, iirc.17:42
javispedroclearly not.17:42
orospakrso, I'm wondering why I'm getting these bunched up replies when the phone's wifi comes back out of powersave.  The phone's wifi cannot receive when it's in power save mode, afaik.17:43
DocScrutinizerthey are buffered in AP, as javispedro said17:44
javispedrothe AP is buffering the.e17:44
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orospakrah, right. I didn't parse your reply correctly.17:44
DocScrutinizerwhich means your AP seems to have a minimal idea about how to PSM17:44
Stskeeps'lo FatalSaint17:45
DocScrutinizeror maybe not17:45
orospakrneat. well, my only remaining question is what the difference is between aggressive and intermediate.  maybe just the timeouts?17:46
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javispedroiirc inactivity timer before enabling psm. but not sure.17:47
javispedrobtw (gstreamer noob) what to use on n900, playbin or playbin2?17:49
DocScrutinizerPSM=ultra works by RFC114917:49
orospakrhere's an odd bit: if I'm pinging my n900 with a period of 1s, then the n900's replies should theoretically keep the PSM up indefinitely.17:49
pupnik_is there a universal bluetooth protocol to exchange 'business cards'?17:49
orospakrhowever, they do not.  the ping will suddenly start timing out.17:49
SpeedEvilpsm is rather complex17:49
SpeedEviland subtly broken17:49
orospakrSpeedEvil, heuristics, I guess?17:49
javispedropupnik_: usually obex+vcard17:50
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pupnik_ty javispedro17:50
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DocScrutinizersomebody shared a pointer to PSM details (aka specs) some time ago, but alas I seem have missed to bookmark it :-S17:51
orospakrman, my office mate is so hardcore that I said "RFC 1149" to him, and he says, "Hmmm.  Avian carriers?"17:51
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DocScrutinizerwell, 1. Apr 1999 ~= 114917:54
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DocScrutinizerthat's easy17:54
DocScrutinizererr 1990, sorry17:55
DocScrutinizerbut then the hint doesn't work anymore :-P17:55
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DocScrutinizerstill the best: >>The bandwidth is limited to the leg length<< X-D17:59
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phrykHow do I get to the psk-entry dialogue when having a wlan that supports the weird "Wi-Fi Protected Setup compliant" ones…18:11
orospakrjavispedro, I don't know about maemo 5 specifically, but playbin2 - while supporting gapless playback and other fun - is still a little unstable.18:12
javispedrohmm.. I need no fancy features, so playbin1 is it.18:12
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DocScrutinizerphryk: sorry, never run into such dialog, but I guess in settings->internet_connections you may config all the details of arbitrary wlan connections18:19
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phrykDocScrutinizer: i have only 3 options there18:22
phryk"Connect automatically", "Search Interval" and "Switch to Wi-Fi when available"18:22
phrykoh wait18:22
phryktheres a connections button18:22
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phrykDocScrutinizer: Could you also tell me, if you know about a nicer terminal than the default xterm?18:26
phrykthey at least don't seem to have urxvt18:27
DocScrutinizersorry, never heard of any alternative terminals18:27
phrykbut thanks^^18:27
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dnearyI guess ferenc never made it onto IRC18:29
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DocScrutinizerphryk: apt-cache tells me there's osso-xterm (=default), and there's >>xterm - X terminal emulator<<18:33
MohammadAGRST38h, found the answer to window title?18:34
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phrykDocScrutinizer: then i'd rather have the default one ^^;18:35
phrykDocScrutinizer: I guess the "normal" xterm won't even have the touchscreen buttons for tab, etc…18:36
MohammadAGxterm is for the SDK18:36
phrykMohammadAG: why that? where's the difference to the osso thing that makes it needed by the sdk?18:36
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MohammadAGtset: unknown terminal type xterm <-- afaik18:38
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SpeedEvilapt-get install xterm works here18:39
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DocScrutinizerlol, but does xterm work?18:46
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DocScrutinizerwell, it 'works'18:49
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DocScrutinizermoinmoin lcukn90019:06
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lcukn900hey doc19:08
lcukn900doc how do i stop this xchat from loading scrollback after restarting?19:09
lcukn900my desktop client just starts with a clear window19:09
lcukn900i looked19:10
lcukn900theres a scrollback lines option but afaik thats for how much to hold in memory, different to reloading on startup19:10
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DocScrutinizer51logging / display scrollback from prev session19:11
lcukn900changing it to 0 had no effect19:12
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MohammadAGlcuk, there's a small . in the top tabs19:12
MohammadAGthat's actually an arrow to go right/left in tabs19:12
MohammadAGclick it then <DocScrutinizer51> logging / display scrollback from prev session19:13
MohammadAGlcukn900, ^19:13
lcukn900yes i just saw it thanks19:13
lcukn900thats teeny19:13
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DocScrutinizer51yo, xchat not exactly hildonized19:13
lcukn900those prefs would be better as a longer single pannable page19:13
* MohammadAG wonders how to tie the size of a QWebView with a QMainWindow19:13
lcukn900yeah i know19:14
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MohammadAG~seen Noobmonk3y19:14
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infobotnoobmonk3y <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20h 41m 28s ago, saying: 'ish!'.19:14
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alteregoMohammadAG: setSizePolicy()19:18
alteregoor setPolicy()19:18
alteregocan't remember19:18
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alteregowebview.setSizePolicy(QSizePolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding, QSizePolicy::Expanding))19:19
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ZogGwho is janole on twitter?19:25
ZogG think there is a misconseption of what an open source phone OS means: it's not that you build it, it's that you can learn from the source.19:25
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MohammadAGZogG, Gravity developer19:28
ZogGyeah i read19:28
ZogGbut no gravity for n900 =) cause he is too open???19:28
ZogGbtw winamp goes on android19:28
MohammadAGidk why he didn't want it on there19:29
ZogGand we never got linux version =)19:29
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MyrttiZogG: because there's open source free ones that people tend to use and he didn't see a business in it? also AFAIK he wasn't into Qt yet too well when N900 surfaced19:34
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rokr1hello all19:49
rokr1bot ?19:49
infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever19:49
xDaReaperxPR1.3 is out ?19:49
rokr1but i see in the repository19:49
rokr1its almost out19:50
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rokr1last updated 22.10.2010 07:24 for PR1.419:50
rokr1sorry PR1.319:50
rokr1thats today19:51
rokr1developers are working hard i think19:51
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rokr1hats off to them and my respect19:51
xDaReaperxyes thats great19:51
secyritasoh you mean ?19:52
xDaReaperxyeah he meant that19:52
secyritasit's just a symlink to
rokr1still u can do apt-get upgrade19:52
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rokr1but u may brick the phone19:52
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rokr1let me change the topic19:53
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rokr1before i get banned19:53
rokr1i still have problem19:53
rokr1with openVPN19:54
rokr1is there any app for pptp ??19:54
rokr1as of now i dont see pppd19:54
rokr1in repository19:54
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rokr1MPPE Support19:55
rokr1any app ??19:55
rokr1nay nay19:56
rokr1knock knock anyone there ??19:56
alterego"PR1.3 is out?" - Do you have a orange update notification in your status area? -_-19:57
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alteregoI think I might stop interacting in #maemo affairs and move to #meego from now on.19:58
alteregoLess lusers :)19:58
xDaReaperxMaemo is better than Meego19:59
xDaReaperxMaemo 519:59
rokr1thats a good idea alterego19:59
rokr11 less luser19:59
rokr1ASs'asins crEED20:00
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rokr1is there any app for PPTP20:02
rokr1client ?20:02
javispedroalterego: first rule of #meego: you don't talk about #meego =)20:03
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rokr1Hal is huge in N90020:05
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rokr1have to spare a lot of time to learn20:05
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rokr1the device20:05
rokr1its unique20:05
rokr1i love N90020:05
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xDaReaperxDid you buy it recently ?20:08
xDaReaperxno wonder your so excited about it20:08
rokr1few months back this20:08
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DocScrutinizerZogG: ( it's that you can learn from the source.) wtf?! Learn how I *would* build same shit, if only bootloader would allow me to load an unsigned kernel... Or what?20:17
DocScrutinizer~lart janole and this idiotic notion20:18
* infobot executes killall -TERM janole and this idiotic notion20:18
DocScrutinizerFOSS is not an educational book for the noobs (well, not only). FOSS is supposed to empower me to *change* things, which of course implies I can *build* things and *use* them same way as the original source20:20
DocScrutinizerand binaries20:20
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ZogGDocScrutinizer, sorry i was rolling j... something important - couldn't answer20:26
DocScrutinizer51ZogG: assuming this shit was a quote of that janole and not your own opiinion20:27
phrykhow do i get ifconfig?20:27
MohammadAG/sbin isn't in $PATH20:28
ZogGDocScrutinizer, yeah that's why it looked stupid, so i quoted. but check this too : "Haters gonna hate. Remember that it's easy to criticize, hard to create, and even harder to lead."20:28
MohammadAGat least not user's20:28
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, heavy site, of course,!/janole/status/2840321336720:28
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DocScrutinizer51WAAAAAAAAAAH twitter20:29
ZogGDocScrutinizer51 i'm not stupid, if nokia shows there videos for open phone on youtube from nokia lab, so why wouldn't they release it, f##k lairs =)))20:29
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* DocScrutinizer51 ponders to create an email user agent that just discards all mails that aren't signed by my cryptokey. Maybe lusers would learn about security framework and signed BL bullsh*t20:33
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: too early for such geeky dreams20:35
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* javispedro ponders if gstreamer implictly creates its own thread to do work, or runs everything off gmainloop20:35
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javispedrowell, easy answer.20:35
* javispedro goes test it20:36
DocScrutinizerhtop has a setting to show threads :-)20:36
javispedrolet's say that my gmainloop won't be running "often", so if it's going to depend on it running, the video is going to play quite slowly20:36
javispedroin a few weeks or so =)20:37
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crashanddie_You know how I was trying to get my company to move over to git?20:37
javispedroyou explained why it is called 'git'? :P20:38
crashanddie_6 years of product history committed to git;  340 commits, 400 tags, 5 active branches, 70MB worth of repository.20:38
crashanddie_javispedro, they're french, they don't understand the word "git"20:38
crashanddie_they just pronounce it the same as "gite" (hostel)20:38
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crashanddie_most of them assumed it's because we're "giving a roof" to the source code. Whatever floats their boat.20:39
crashanddie_I'm not going to burst their bubble.20:39
javispedro340 commits, 400 tags? O.o20:39
crashanddie_some commits have multiple tags20:39
crashanddie_"v2.0 is also v2.0.0 and v2.0.0.0"20:40
crashanddie_no idea why I put quotes around  my own sentence.20:40
crashanddie_and you want to know the best part?20:40
crashanddie_I was all done automagically by the beauty of shell :)20:40
crashanddie_It was**20:41
DocScrutinizerI guess it's called git because everybody feels like that when first being confronted with it20:41
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crashanddie_I pulled the tar.gz's from and scp, parsed the name to get the version number, organised by date, so first all the initial version commits and then branching if some version had a posterior date20:42
crashanddie_and also pulled the changes from a diff changes.txt file :)20:42
crashanddie_going home20:42
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MohammadAGQProgressBar is broken on both PR1.2 and PR1.321:00
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trumeeMohammadAG: you mean leaked PR 1.3?21:03
MohammadAGdoes it matter?21:04
trumeerokr1: there is a pptp thread on t.m.o21:04
MohammadAGthere's no other one21:04
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trumeeMohammadAG: since it is not out yet, maybe they could fix it if told.21:05
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andre__trumee: ROFL21:10
andre__sorry, that's not how things work.21:10
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FIQ|n9001.3 leaked _as well_?21:11
infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever21:11
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DocScrutinizerandre__: that's why ~pr1.321:14
MohammadAGputting the progress bar into a layout fixed it21:14
* MohammadAG marks as WORKSFORME21:14
DocScrutinizerand MohammadAG permanent mentioning it won't help anything, except call up more trolls asking "ohh, pr1.3??"21:14
* MohammadAG patches bugzilla to include a SORTAWORKSFORME21:15
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Goliath23hi. is there a way to find out how often my package has been downloaded in extras-devel without making it "call home"?21:16
DocScrutinizerbtw there's also ~pr1.4 and ~pr1.521:16
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* toggles ducks21:17
andre__Goliath23, for Extras there is, e.g.
andre__no idea for -devel21:17
DocScrutinizertoggles: you forgot "infobot:" or "~"21:18
andre__oh. maybe also works21:18
togglesDocScrutinizer: is it out yet?21:18
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* MohammadAG lhfao-s21:19
DocScrutinizerandre__: Goliath23: that's however all downloads sigma, not easy to calculate from this number to the (much lower) number of installations21:19
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* MohammadAG smiles at the basic browser he added to PSFreedom21:21
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MohammadAGwhat's the header file for the connection dialog?21:22
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DocScrutinizerandre__: Goliath23: well, actually it's downloads/day, for the different repos, and I'm not sure how older versions of same package are handled in this statistics21:27
DocScrutinizerI guess the number of downloads after a new version is promoted will roughly reflect the actual number if installations in use21:28
DocScrutinizerduring the first few days, that is21:29
Goliath23alright. thanks a lot21:30
Goliath23doesnt find my extras-devel package (buliscores) though21:33
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Goliath23oh cool thanks21:39
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DocScrutinizeryou'll have to wait some days before real ststistic data shows up there21:40
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Goliath23if someone wants to try it.. there is a game running right now. feedback appredciated! ;)21:40
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oshinhi, anyone know if I could just upload stellarium mobile ? just got it for 1 usd21:45
oshinfrom my country21:45
oshinand since it's gpl21:45
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* MohammadAG wonders how variables and if variable = something in C++ work21:46
oshinspeaking of operator overloading?21:46
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MohammadAG#define PAGE1 "file:///opt/psfreedom/resources/helpimages/Slim/page1.png" <-- is the syntax correct?21:50
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oshinMohammadAG, yes21:51
oshinshould i post it on the thread?21:51
oshini wouldn't violate distributing gpl binary right?21:51
javispedroyou have the source?21:52
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oshinjavispedro, no, about states it's gpl21:52
MohammadAGcontact the maintainer21:52
javispedroif you don't have the source, he's violation the gpl. the resulting binary is not gpl and thus you cannot redistribute it legally.21:52
javispedro*he's violating21:52
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oshinjavispedro, i got it from ovi store.21:53
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* MohammadAG lols21:53
oshinfor 1usd well :)21:53
MohammadAGTHE FUCK?!21:53
oshindidn't have to think much21:53
oshinthey have different price for thai21:53
phrykcan i change the hostname  without running into problems?21:53
oshineverything is much cheaper.21:53
MohammadAGyou paid for GPL licensed apps?21:53
javispedrowhat happened to that story about he changing the license?21:53
MohammadAGphryk, /etc/hostname, yes21:53
oshinwell.. yes.21:53
MohammadAGthe ovi store's QA team is fucked up21:54
oshinbut i'd just call it, support price.21:54
MohammadAGthe ovi store's * is fucked up21:54
oshinlike make ease so i don't need to compile myself.21:54
phrykmohammadag: i meant without getting probs from the device21:54
oshinwell, just want to play it quickly don't blame me for being stupid something..21:54
MohammadAGI can compile it for you for free if I have the source21:54
MohammadAGPhonicUK, as I said, yes21:54
oshini can compile it myself21:55
MohammadAGso can everyone21:55
oshinyeh but..21:55
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oshinjust get it quickly21:55
PhonicUKah tab completion21:55
PhonicUKcarry on21:55
oshinand i know dev will get some money21:55
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MohammadAGLOL didn't notice that, sorry PhonicUK21:55
PhonicUKno worries21:55
* MohammadAG gives PhonicUK a ton of bacon21:56
* PhonicUK drools21:56
oshinjavispedro, btw, he owns the copyright afaict21:56
* PhonicUK sells bacon :D21:56
oshinso he can release it any license he want.21:56
javispedrooshin: in fact, afaik, he doesn't. that's the reason he was having problems to relicense it under a propietary license.21:56
oshinjavispedro, ah21:56
javispedrooshin: rest of stellarium maintainers et al own it.21:56
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oshinthen i shouldn't distribute the binary21:57
javispedroso I wonder how did that end21:57
oshinbut for the sake of that, i feel no guilt to distribute it pirately21:57
oshinthanks, will just move this off topic21:58
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rysiek|plhello guys21:58
rysiek|pl I have a PA 0.9.15 on my n900 and 0.9.22 on my kubuntu laptop; when I try to send a stream from the laptop to the n900, I get:21:59
rysiek|plE: protocol-native.c: protocol error, kicking client21:59
rysiek|pl#pulseaudio guys tell me that it's a nokia/fremantle related mismatch21:59
javispedroiirc this was discussed in talk.maemo.org21:59
rysiek|pljavispedro: yeah, reading that a third time now22:00
oshinMohammadAG, btw, the syntax wasn't a part of language but a preprocessing22:00
oshin#define whatever..22:00
rysiek|pljavispedro: no real solution there (copying n900's PA client libs to the lappy doesn't sound like one)22:00
MohammadAGoshin, so that's not a variable?22:01
javispedrorysiek|pl: building 0.9.10 on the lappy might22:01
oshinno, it's like compiler defined.. more like macro22:01
rysiek|pljavispedro: hmmm... yeah, might. tempting22:01
MohammadAGoshin, so how do I define a variable?22:01
oshinit's an assignment but in a compile time, not runtime.22:01
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MohammadAGoshin, question still stands, const?22:02
oshinchar * something = "something";22:02
javispedrorysiek|pl: either way, if you could research this "nokia mismatch" and document it... =)22:02
MohammadAGwith a space between * and something?22:02
oshinwell, depends on the framework you are using too.22:02
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oshinMohammadAG, up to you22:02
javispedroMohammadAG: you're trying to learn C on a IRC channel?22:02
oshini love space for clean22:02
rysiek|pljavispedro: or I could get back to the "FLOSS in Schools" project I'm coordinating for a foundation here in Poland... ;)22:02
oshinchar *something = ""; that's c variable22:03
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oshini think qt use QString something?22:03
oshinwhich is a class22:03
* MohammadAG forgot about that22:03
oshin you know you can represent string in many ways.22:03
rysiek|pljavispedro: I think I'll just fire up a 0.9.10 compilation on the lappy and hope for the best, leaving the technicalities to more knowledgable22:03
javispedrorysiek|pl: np22:04
* oshin admits finally he didn't know c++22:04
oshin(has seen some chunks)22:04
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petteriI am porting a gtk app n900. When I start it with it works fine, but when I start it from menu, it closes just before the screen goes blank22:12
petteriany suggestions what might be the problem?22:12
oshinmay be you can start it by strace?22:12
oshinor invoke it through a terminal and see if you get some logs22:13
oshinbut there should be a better way to get some logs.22:13
petteriif I start it from terminal it works fine22:13
MohammadAGcheck the .desktop and .service files22:13
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petterii think it is related to screesaver, maybe it stops all apps when the screen goes blank or somehing22:14
MohammadAGthere aren't any screensaver22:14
MohammadAGthere aren't any screensavers*22:14
MohammadAGyay, segfault22:14
ShadowJKno apps are forcibly stopped22:14
ShadowJKnor paused22:15
petteriok... seems strange. The works just fine when run with after screen goes blank22:15
petteri, but not when started from menu22:15
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> check the .desktop and .service files22:16
petteriwhat should I look from those?22:16
petterithey are quite simple done as instructted on the wikipage22:17
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MohammadAGyou made them?22:17
MohammadAGwell that sorta pinpoints the problem :P22:17
MohammadAGpaste the .desktop and .service files on pastebin.com22:17
petteriok, just a sec22:18
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DocScrutinizerI doubt it's related to screen dimming at all. more likely it's the welknown quite after 90s22:19
DocScrutinizerwell known quit22:19
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DocScrutinizerwild guess: stdout unassigned22:20
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, what 90s22:20
DocScrutinizeror some dbus thing maybe22:20
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oshincould be something to do with envvar?22:21
DocScrutinizernever seen this? app closing after some 90 or 120s. I encountered this on fahrplan and a number of other apps22:21
javispedroit is a dbus thing22:21
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I thought he said it doesn't start22:21
petterihmm.. found additional "/" in my X-Osso-Service. I will try to fix it before making anymore questions :)22:21
javispedroeither you're not answering to your "top" (exact method name I don't remember) method call,22:21
MohammadAGoh nvm22:22
javispedroor the bus name you're registering does not match what dbus expects22:22
DocScrutinizer>>... it closes just before the screen goes blank<<22:22
* oshin starts writing down all the symptoms on the whiteboard.22:22
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, sorry, missed that22:23
rysiek|pljavispedro: somebody writes there about "PA Client Libraries" - which are those? do you remember?22:23
DocScrutinizerhi, Greg22:23
javispedrorysiek|pl: libpulse, libpulsecore, ... many to remember.22:24
rysiek|plright, thanks22:24
javispedrorysiek|pl: basically you should build it, install it to a prefix, then LD_LIBRARY_PATH your binary to it.22:24
rysiek|pljavispedro: yeah, that seems the easiest22:24
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Gh0styhow to see the version of maemo? :/22:25
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DocScrutinizeror settings->about22:26
DocScrutinizerpetteri: well, X-Osso-Service is about dbus, so it's most likely exactly what javispedro and I said22:30
petterii think i found it my #define PACKAGE_DBUS_NAME has a typo. I will try to fix it22:32
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Otacon22It is cool to be root just writing "root" on the shell, anyway can I set a password :/ ?22:50
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rpgdudei am having a problem with hermes app22:51
rpgdudewhen i click clear authorisation, nothing happens22:51
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rpgdudei just deleted my facebook account, so i want to clear out the settings22:51
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petterithanks every one. Fixed my bug. It was the dbus name23:03
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MohammadAGyou asked for it23:33
MohammadAG~rape alterego23:33
* infobot takes alterego behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams23:33
MohammadAG(one question, why walmart?)23:33
alteregoYeah, I'm in the UK23:34
alteregoI can't install it MohammadAG23:35
alteregoSome screwed dependency issues23:35
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DocScrutinizerhmm, for Walmart probably check last 10 years' US/UK newspapers23:39
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ieatlintMohammadAG: ever seen the movie deliverance?23:45
ieatlintthat's why23:45
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