| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: try 'echo r >/proc/driver/musb_hdrc' - maybe also 'u' | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: see, that's exactly what we need to do for hostmode: find the proper 'magic sequence' so it works even without 'proper hub' | 00:02 |
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| MohammadAG | apologies, apparently the hub was working, the drive was sleeping | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | hostmode as it is now relies on HNP which involves VBUS meddling and a lot of timing critical things regarding electrics of the USB port. That's the reason it works with one peripheral and refuses to work with another one of same type - though both are for example memsticks 1G, the one may have different power consumption than the other so VBUS discharges with a different rate | 00:06 |
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| MohammadAG | ARGH | 00:07 |
| Hoxzer | ....yes | 00:07 |
| nidO | man, its amazing just how far *backwards* the availability of decent tablets has gone since the release of the ipad :< | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | I'm using the kernel without CD/DVD support | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol...errhmhrm | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | apt-worker needs to die | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | indexer needs to die | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG | thumbnailer too | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | friggin thumbnailer freezes my device after first camshot, whe trying to watch the photo shot | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously it thinks it has to thumbnail the 13GB of mp3 :-S | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~curse the guy that had the idea to use a general index for media | 00:11 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, the guy that had the idea to use a general index for media ! | 00:11 |
| MohammadAG | actually, it reindexes your whole library, just for the hell of it | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | comes in handy when you try to take more than one photo at a time | 00:12 |
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| FauxFaux | Heh, I put 6gb of 10+MP photos in my home directory, it wasn't greatly happy about that. | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd call it a ***BUG*** | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | tracker/thumbnailer IS a bug in itself | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | and HOORAY we see same bullshit in meego(-core?) | 00:14 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I don't mind tracker (on a quad core i7 running off AC) | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | but "you can send patches once we released 1.1" - suuuuure | 00:14 |
| MohammadAG | but when tracker decides to kick in when the battery low sound goes, then it indexes the whole library till the battery dies is something I don't appreciate | 00:15 |
| MohammadAG | when the battery dies, the tracker database gets corrupt | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice | 00:15 |
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| MohammadAG | so when you start up again -> (no songs), (no videos), (no images), sometimes corrupt /home | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think you at least can forbid indexing while on battery | 00:15 |
| nidO | tbh its hardly just maemo/meego though, I have to wonder every time I ever see/use any kind of media application that mandatorily builds/maintains its own index of your content if the software's designers have ever actually used any kind of media software | 00:16 |
| MohammadAG | then it rapes the battery again | 00:16 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I never recharge | 00:16 |
| MohammadAG | I always charge the batteries externally | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: yep, it's as well unbearable config option | 00:16 |
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| MohammadAG | charging externally is epic | 00:17 |
| MohammadAG | you get to wait twice the time | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the whole mafw or whatever it's called relies on this BUG | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole system architecture is completely useless as far as it is faintly connected to tracker. And it's obviously impossible to discuss system architecture | 00:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even for meego | 00:20 |
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| pupnik | i almost just said a stupid thing | 00:22 |
| pupnik | lucky for you i didn't | 00:22 |
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| * DocScrutinizer heads out to get a wodka, for the shock and luck in this almost fatality | 00:23 | |
| pupnik | cheers DocScrutinizer | 00:24 |
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| pupnik | so is this libpcap plus modem info turning up interesting things yet? | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: I posted a link to wireshark dissecting modem commands recently, didn't you notice that one? | 00:25 |
| pupnik | i vaguely recalled some chatter about it - don't recall the link | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | https://elektranox.org/n900/images/wireshark/04.png | 00:27 |
| pupnik | oh | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | https://elektranox.org/n900/libisi/index.html | 00:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 00:28 |
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| ShadowJK | did luke see that? | 00:29 |
| pupnik | hey is that gps data an 'unadvertised feature' of the phone operation? | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | DocScrutinizer SpeedEvil: jacekowski: https://elektranox.org/n900/images/wireshark/04.png | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-12.log.html#t2010-10-12T01:35:29 | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | DocScrutinizer luke-jr_: ^^^ | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-12.log.html#t2010-10-12T01:36:09 | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so, dunno if luke-jr_ noticed it, I tried to let him know | 00:31 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik, well not really. It's just that the GPS is connected to the phone side | 00:31 |
| pupnik | oh how droll | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 00:32 |
| pupnik | seems that could have been kept seperate | 00:32 |
| pupnik | maybe not i guess it depends on what's on the market | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | BB5 needs access t GPS for satisfying the 'localization' requirements of 3GPP | 00:33 |
| pupnik | what's the scoop DocScrutinizer | 00:33 |
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| pupnik | ahh ok ty | 00:33 |
| pupnik | who got that requirement into 3GPP? | 00:34 |
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| fcrochik | DocScrutinizer51: sorry for jumping into the moving train from time to time but: I see 10 decimal places on your screenshot and I only get 4 with Qt Mobility... | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | executive | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | I need another N900 | 00:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | emergency services, like paramedics... police... FBI??? | 00:34 |
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| MohammadAG | FBI, cause they're totally after you | 00:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fcrochik: that's not exactly my screenshot | 00:35 |
| MohammadAG | I'm surprised google never made it to your list DocScrutinizer | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | google has no direct control over the GSM OTA protocol (yet?), so it's useless for them | 00:36 |
| pupnik | i imagine that GPS could be really helpful for the provider to finetune their network | 00:36 |
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| pupnik | get more feedback on local conditions | 00:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: for that they won't rely on user devices | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | too unprecise, and not really needed | 00:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not unprecise in aggregate | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and BTS aren't dynamically tuned | 00:37 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, DVD plays, sort of | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | largely the BTS freq, locations, and power and directional properties are based on calculations of a model of the whole terrain | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: :-D | 00:39 |
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| MohammadAG | if I play the vob files, it works, but... | 00:39 |
| MohammadAG | MPlayer was compiled without libdvdread support. | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm sure the poor little 600MHz cpu is overwhelmed by the decoding | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 00:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so the question why it's there is quite legitimate | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (libdvdread) | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | someone compile it for me, I have to go to bed :P | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | 'nite moh | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | night o/ | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fcrochik: there's a bug ticket for that (4 decimals of lon/lat) - I'd guess opened by SpeedEvil | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | was related to geotagging the camera photos though | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tzz, why do you leave ZNC, moh? | 00:45 |
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| ioan | hi. any good google voice applications? | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 00:46 |
| fcrochik | DocScrutinizer51: ah... hopefully this is not the only bug....because even with only 4 decimal places my gps jumps like crazy when I am stationary | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, should stabilze after a few minutes though | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask SpeedEvil - he's the god of GPS | 00:47 |
| pupnik | thanks DocScrutinizer - thanks for the info again! - exactly what i was curious about :) | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw pupnik | 00:48 |
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| pupnik | well. conditions might get more dynamic sooner than we like | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which conditions? | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | fcrochik: See http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS | 00:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | fcrochik: 50% of points - in good conditions - fall within a 2.2m radius circle. | 00:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | fcrochik: 99.8% of points fall within a 60m radius. | 00:51 |
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| nox- | moin | 00:53 |
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| fcrochik | SpeedEvil: very cool info... so it must be an issue with qt mobility... I have to test outside my house... inside my position changes every second and by maybe some 20m or so.... | 00:53 |
| fcrochik | SpeedEvil: and I am on the second floor right by the window on a house ... | 00:54 |
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| achipa | fcrochik: precision != accuracy | 00:54 |
| achipa | those two cna be very distinct in the gps realm | 00:54 |
| achipa | s/cna/can/ | 00:54 |
| infobot | achipa meant: those two can be very distinct in the gps realm | 00:54 |
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| fcrochik | SpeedEvil: one question (now that you know that you are the GOD of the GPS): qt mobility allows you to set the interval to get positions reported.... any guidance here? once a second? 10 times a second? | 00:55 |
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| fcrochik | SpeedEvil: I mean...now that I know you are ... :) | 00:58 |
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| fcrochik | I guess this is the perfect opportunity for me to announce my new app (just uploaded to extras-devel): a native front end for google maps... | 01:00 |
| CreamyG | anyone know how to change the configure command in ESbox or maybe eclipse? | 01:00 |
| fcrochik | http://maemo.org/packages/view/geeps/ | 01:00 |
| CreamyG | hmmm that sounds too good to be true man | 01:00 |
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| fcrochik | some screenshots: http://maemo.crochik.com/home/geeps | 01:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | fcrochik: The raw hardware does not return data more than once a second typically as I understand it. | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | fcrochik: Also - some windows are GPS-opaque vunctionally | 01:23 |
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| fcrochik | SpeedEvil: thanks for the info... my application plots the position regardless of the street so it is quite interesting to see google maps x gps position....is I was using it to guide a car or something I would cut many corners literally | 01:27 |
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| mcunix | sera | 01:29 |
| mcunix | come si imposta la passwd di root da shell dell' N900 | 01:29 |
| mcunix | ? | 01:29 |
| nox- | i dont speak spanish (or whatever that is), but the default root pw is empty | 01:30 |
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| nox- | just need to install the rootsh package... | 01:30 |
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| achipa | mcunix: sudo gainroot | 01:33 |
| achipa | mcunix: passwd | 01:33 |
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| achipa | (in case you were asking how to set the root pass) | 01:33 |
| achipa | if not... oops | 01:33 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy may also be interesting to you fcrochik | 01:34 |
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| mcunix | achipa: enable RD mode if you want to break your device | 01:35 |
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| fcrochik | SpeedEvil: thank you... if you decide to try my app let me know what you think... it seems that this is one of your areas of expertise... | 01:37 |
| achipa | mcunix: aha, install rootsh from extras first, no root hanky-panky until you do that | 01:38 |
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| CreamyG | cool i'm installing your gps thing fcrochik | 01:42 |
| fcrochik | CreamyG: let me know how you like it | 01:43 |
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| ioan | any IPv6 gurus here? | 01:44 |
| ioan | google voice plugin works fine if I connect to the internet over wifi. If I connect using T-Mobile's IPv6, the browser works, the email works... but google voice plugin can't connect. | 01:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 01:46 |
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| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: DocScrutinizer: why do I need to see that? | 01:53 |
| luke-jr_ | more like, did that guy see my work, or is he trying to repeat it? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry for disturbing you | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't happen again | 01:54 |
| CreamyG | fcrochik, i got it installed but i had to manually install the libqt-location first | 01:55 |
| CreamyG | also it went to "other" instead of location/navigation in the menu | 01:56 |
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| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: … | 01:56 |
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| fcrochik | CreamyG: did you install using the application manager or fap? it should handle the dependencies... I guessed the name of the group... probably it is not location :) | 01:57 |
| CreamyG | fcrochik: app manager, it listed it as a problem and said it won't install on the details tab, although i didn't actually try clicking install to verify it doesn't auto install. | 01:58 |
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| nox- | ioan, read up on net neutrality... (i.e. tmobile just wanst to charge you for voice calls) | 01:59 |
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| ioan | nox-: the problem seems to be in the google voice plugin. I can do whatever I want in the browser on google voice website with IPv6, and the plugin just connects to same website... | 02:15 |
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| wmarone | wow | 02:30 |
| wmarone | mediabox seriously needs to be profiled | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | meh, google voice. I'd probably rather use skype, and I hate skype | 02:30 |
| wmarone | its excess cpu usage killed my battery ~4 hours earlier than it would otherwise have | 02:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | skype? or GV? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | though both prolly do | 02:33 |
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| wmarone | no no, mediabox | 02:34 |
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| wmarone | though I would not expect reasonable battery life on either of those :) | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | It's probably not. The CPU really has a tough time draining the battery in 4h | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | the radios - easily | 02:35 |
| wmarone | nono, my battery gave up ~4 hours -earlier- | 02:35 |
| wmarone | it's been going since 7 AM | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | especially GSM | 02:35 |
| nox- | 3g needs less power than gsm? | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | no, more. | 02:36 |
| nox- | ah ok :) | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | twice to three times in some cases | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err, 3G *is* a flavour of GSM | 02:36 |
| nox- | hah ok | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (not really though) | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I am at the moment streaming 700kbps video over 3g | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, missing my booksmarks from laptop. no link to the dsl speedtest page here in my pub | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Discharging at 100mA with the screen off. | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | and connected to USB | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wut video with screen off? | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also 700kb over UMTS with 100mA | 02:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | tethering. | 02:39 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 cursing mce | 02:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~kill mce | 02:40 |
| * infobot shoots a inverse anti-photon gun at mce | 02:40 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | kbd backlight is random | 02:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | no way to fic that shit | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | see? | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | blindtyping | 02:41 |
| rtyler | any of you chaps find that modest chews up a godawful amount of CPU? | 02:41 |
| * rtyler wishes there were a better mail client in maemo5 | 02:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | modwst??? naaw | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | claw | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I uninstalled modest. | 02:42 |
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| rtyler | SpeedEvil: what do you use? | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nuttin? | 02:42 |
| rtyler | NO MAIL! OH NOES! | 02:42 |
| rtyler | :D | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | rtyler: I rarely use mail. | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | rtyler: on the phone | 02:43 |
| rtyler | ah | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, nonsense | 02:43 |
| rtyler | DocScrutinizer51: does Claws integrate well like maemo5 does? | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | prolly not | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | never gave it a try | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | rtyler: I tend to find myself using my phone for several things. Either watching TV while washing up, listening to podcasts, or occasional IRC in the garden, and photos. | 02:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | Comparatively little browsing or email. | 02:44 |
| rtyler | heh, I use it primarily for both of those :P | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Largely BBC content actually. | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Sky at night ++ get_iplayer++ | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | browsing yes. email? noooo way | 02:45 |
| ioan | the special 3G connection I have for IPv6 seems like doesn't use any battery :-) I mean if I don't use the phone, the battery lasts for 2-3 days with the connection ON all the time | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | email's not twitter | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | ioan: data connectiuon 'up' - uses almost no power. | 02:46 |
| rtyler | DocScrutinizer51: what does that have to do with anything? i)I | 02:46 |
| rtyler | o_O* | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I guess meaning it doesn't need checked very often. | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | reading email means I either regret doing that or I want to answer. Answer appropritely on N900? c'mon | 02:47 |
| ioan | SpeedEvil, tell me master, how do I make the google voice plugin work on ipv6? | 02:47 |
| rtyler | DocScrutinizer51: email is also used by lots of folks for say, production alerting/notifications | 02:48 |
| rtyler | I can fire off pretty good replies on the n900 in most cases | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ioan: I have no clue, I've never tried the google voice plugin, I was under the imnpression it required a third party SIP service. | 02:48 |
| rtyler | it's just that I can't do much while using modest <_< | 02:48 |
| nox- | SpeedEvil, iplayer-- sky at night used to be on the web for everyone and now its geoblocked... :( | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rtyler: granted | 02:48 |
| rtyler | mediaplayer skips terribly when using mail | 02:48 |
| * rtyler grumbles | 02:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | nox-: well - yes. | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not me though | 02:48 |
| ioan | SpeedEvil: I use it just to send receive sms... so it doesn't need anything except the plugin. I didn't try the voice part tho | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | nox-: http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2010-October/000175.html | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | ioan: ah | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | isn't the plugin x86 only? | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | OR am I misunderstanding. | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I use sms to notify me about urgen things | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | much better than mail | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I even get sms notifications on new mail :-P | 02:51 |
| nox- | SpeedEvil, heh nice :) | 02:51 |
| luke-jr_ | ioan: any idea if IPv6 works with prepaid? | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err read Ur Q | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: it's gonna vary with provider I imagine. | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: There is relatively little need. | 02:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: as they can NAT the ipv4 without problems. | 02:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | how's payg related *technically* to ipv6?? | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not. | 02:55 |
| luke-jr_ | SpeedEvil: I'm talking specific to T-Mo | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't tried ipv4 with t-mo | 02:55 |
| luke-jr_ | which doesn't have PAYG data | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | (though I'm on t-mo uk) | 02:55 |
| luke-jr_ | T-Mo IPv6 is some kind of beta | 02:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | And I'm streaming video on my PAYG data | 02:55 |
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| luke-jr_ | well, technically PAYG has data for ONLY their Sidekick (Hiptop) phones | 02:56 |
| luke-jr_ | which I presume don't support IPv6 | 02:56 |
| luke-jr_ | so the question is, do I want to risk losing *all* connectivity by admitting I use something else? | 02:56 |
| * SpeedEvil is glad he doesn't live in the USA. | 02:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rule of thumb: if you use same APN, you'll use same tech service | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | billing is a different thing | 02:57 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer51: but if they want to, they can force me to another APN | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes, anytime | 02:58 |
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| luke-jr_ | T-Mo has been known to kick people off the Hiptop plan if they find out you don't have one | 02:58 |
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| luke-jr_ | since Hiptop doesn't support IPv6, requesting the beta would be admitting to using a different device | 02:58 |
| luke-jr_ | ergo, I could get cut off | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yuck | 02:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | for 25€ i get 5GB/mo here plus a bonus on top worth 60min voice or 120 sms. more than enough (we don't pay for inbound call minutes here) | 03:02 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer51: they also only allow Unlimited Data subscribers on the IPv6 beta | 03:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I have a bonus account worth 10h of voice now | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and every 5 months my regular account has enough to pay the 30 bucks | 03:06 |
| dolp | should QMessageManager's countMessages() count all messages in el-v1.db? or how does it work? | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | tbh I give no f..k on ipv6 _ they should just offer a decent way to config the NAT | 03:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm just happy with NAT keeping internet noise away from my GSM radio | 03:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~status | 03:27 |
| infobot | Since Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 210 modifications, 2561 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 1286 commands. I have been awake for 26d 14h 28m 37s this session, and currently reference 117348 factoids. I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 8858.66/215.38 child 0/0 | 03:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 stares on 0 morons 0 dunnos in disbelief | 03:28 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | *ve? | 03:35 |
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| Billynkid | Quick query anyone here used their n900 with ubuntu one music? | 03:39 |
| Billynkid | Having a slight problem not sure if it should be filed as a bug under maemo or ubuntu | 03:40 |
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| Billynkid | The problem is tracks downloaded have no mp3 extension as such they do not appear as track under media player or mediabox? | 03:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | correct | 03:42 |
| Billynkid | So is that Ubuntu or maemo? | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | missing extension probably confuses tracker - not that it could get worse with tracker anyway | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's errr... PLEASE KILL TRACKER WITH FIRE | 03:43 |
| Billynkid | I'd say maemo as rythmbox the app syncing the mp3 with the N900 recongnizes them | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the guy who decided on this system architecture as well | 03:44 |
| Billynkid | Can't it just read the header and work it out the way linux does? | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a mediaplayer plugin to play arbitrary files or even directories (yes, dirs as in unix mkdir) | 03:45 |
| Billynkid | Extensions r so winblows | 03:45 |
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| Billynkid | Really | 03:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tracker concept was born with a gashead | 03:46 |
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| Billynkid | Does plugin have a name? | 03:47 |
| Billynkid | Does it mean mediaplayer/box sees the files? | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | this mediaplayer plugin is somewhat flawed as it plays directories in no particular sequence (or probably the native inode sequence) | 03:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for the name you have to wait until HAM finishes startup :-D | 03:48 |
| Billynkid | Yeah noticed that too. | 03:48 |
| Billynkid | HAM? | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | hildap app manager | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | hildon wtf | 03:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ahh, btw: check out mussorgsky - a nice tool | 03:50 |
| DangerMaus | heh | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck, I deinstalled that plugin :-/ | 03:50 |
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| GermanME | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/aircrackng/ <- does anybody know if this package should include airodump-ng too or where i could get airodump seperately for os2007he? | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | airodump is included | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if it works (except for chan #6) | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, OS2007 - sorry NFC | 03:53 |
| GermanME | just saw somebody using it on youtube running on the n770, so there seems to be some hope ^^ | 03:54 |
| GermanME | couldn't get airodump-ng to start yet, it keeps saying it doesn't know the command, but it's good to know it actually should be in the package, thx so far | 03:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GRILO | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | mafw-grilo-source plugin for fremantle media player | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | in mediaplayer root window (musc, video, radio, random) open menu, click 'plugins' | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | Billynkid: ^^^ | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's "filesystem" allowing to playback arbitrary files and whole folders. It has quirks but is the *Right Thing* | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | never tested "Jamendo", "SHOUTcast", and "Youtube" plugins | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | but actually this pkg made my day(s) | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart tracker | 04:03 |
| * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking tracker's head off | 04:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~burn tracker | 04:03 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over tracker, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 04:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer | damn I'm not such an idiot I can't manage to copy my mp3 to the right folder | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and thumbnailer is even MUCH worse, not only showing your p0rn pics from last hidden drawer in photoviewer, but also all irreco buttons and other shit you never knew you even have | 04:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "hello landlord, look here! that's what you need to fix in my flat. slide right or left to get to next photo" ... "OOOPS, that's a picture of my appendix surgery" *W*T*F*!! | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | well done NOKIA! really! exorbitantly well done, your MMI designers are just gods of wisdom | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, I'm doing usability resaerch, and you can hire me! | 04:10 |
| luke-jr_ | if you have pr0n pics, you deserve to be exposed >☺ | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | but meh, with meego everything will be cheesecake and singing birds... nah wait - tracker and thumbnailer becoming mandatory parts of meego? | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: interested in my abscess I documented for my doctor? | 04:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'll send it to you... ooopsie once more, clicked one pos off and sent goatse | 04:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly, tracker/thumbnailer is the most retarded concept I ever got to know of | 04:17 |
| luke-jr_ | it was retarded when KDE did it too | 04:17 |
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| luke-jr_ | they called it Nepomuk | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 04:17 |
| luke-jr_ | everyone hates it | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't make it better? | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | though on KDE you got proper filemanagers and stuff, to stick with directory tree for arbitrary file types | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo/meego is *relying* on this shit, and doesn't even offer a proper alternative. Not even community based plugin pkgs can completely fix the basic issue, due to "we want to keep it closed source - to DIFFERENTIATE" MUHAHAHAHAHAAaaa | 04:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and on meego when asking "is this really a good concept" you get flames and kicks and "you're free to send patches *after* we implemented the BS as defacto standard" | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~debian meego | 04:24 |
| * infobot tells meego to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! | 04:24 | |
| nox- | .oO(i guess thats the same kind of thinking that got us x startup with black screen, no cursor and ctrl-alt-backspace disabled...) | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: sorry you lost me, please elaborate | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's 'that's' | 04:26 |
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| nox- | this `userfriendliness' stuff | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, the "tracker is for noobs and winzombies" thinking? | 04:27 |
| nox- | yeah | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:27 |
| nox- | for ppl that dont know what a dir is or that cant read urls... | 04:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just like .documents, like "sudo gainroot", like VFAT (well, I'm not that harsh on this particular one)... | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | like "no access to ~/*"... in HFM | 04:30 |
| nox- | yeah | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | nor anywhere lese in system | 04:30 |
| nox- | and noone ever bothered to test things like less or mutt in their xterm :) | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | grant me one hour with the usability guys in a closed room, please | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, what's less??? we got messybox | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and we consider to remove xterm from stock image | 04:31 |
| nox- | eww | 04:31 |
| nox- | ..and replace it with putty or what? :) | 04:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you'll get security framework instead, then you'll never ever again need root or console or cmdline or... | 04:32 |
| nox- | err well _then_ i might just as well get an iphone and jailbreak it :( | 04:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WTF has this device -what's it called ? N900, RX-51 - a hw keyboard? that's not what we at Nokia products thought it should look like | 04:33 |
| nox- | (i mean i thought the point of maemo was that you _dont_ need to `jailbreak' it to make it useful...) | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the point in maemo never has been geek compatibility. It's always been about getting a *free* (as in beer) OS - at least for some parts of Nokia | 04:36 |
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| openstandards | Hi all i'm having trouble with sfdisk i run the command and my n900 replies with command not found | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's been a few advocats of FOSS (especially Quin I guess), but the management that owns the money wasn't interested in FOSS ever | 04:37 |
| * luke-jr_ hasn't really seen Quim advocate for free software. | 04:38 | |
| openstandards | grrr ok my bad you need to sudo to use it | 04:38 |
| luke-jr_ | just make excuses for things being closed | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | they didn't even understand what community or FOSS means | 04:38 |
| openstandards | what are you lot talking about | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | openstandards: use 'root' (or sudo gainroot)! | 04:39 |
| luke-jr_ | Nokia | 04:39 |
| openstandards | DocScrutinizer, yeah thanks i figured it out | 04:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | openstandards: cfdisk is more userfriendly than sfdisk, I'd think | 04:40 |
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| openstandards | to be fair thou alot of nokia's work has ended up in upstream in distros, shame that maemo died out to quick | 04:41 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: IIRC cfdisk isn't ideal for SSD? | 04:41 |
| luke-jr_ | openstandards: really? what? | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: maybe you got a point there | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | sfdisk is rather powerful it seems | 04:41 |
| openstandards | well wasn't telepathy backed highly by nokia and they did hire a lot to work on gstreamer | 04:42 |
| luke-jr_ | shrug | 04:42 |
| luke-jr_ | telepathy quite frankly seems broken by design | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and gstreamer has been around for years | 04:43 |
| luke-jr_ | in any case, anything depending on glib is wasted effort | 04:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ohnoes, me seems has to leave now -it's getting political once more | 04:43 |
| luke-jr_ | :p | 04:44 |
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| openstandards | DocScrutinizer, yeah thats true but theres no denying that the n700 etc... has helped the desktop... | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | err? | 04:44 |
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| openstandards | well nokia has pushed their tablets for years, alot of that stuff has ended up in the n900 | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, if you are talking about friggin PulseAudio breaking my carefully optimized 10 year old ALSA config for desktop, then yes, you're right | 04:45 |
| luke-jr_ | openstandards: the GTK desktop sucks, as it always has :P | 04:45 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: hahaha | 04:45 |
| * openstandards likes gnome :) | 04:45 | |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, http://matt.bottrell.com.au/uploads/Pics/linuxaudio.png | 04:46 |
| nox- | :) | 04:46 |
| luke-jr_ | btw, why the *#(%&#( is T-Mobile sending me a SIM card via UPS? | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | naw, starts wit g*, like gconftool and gstreamer, and g*** | 04:47 |
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| luke-jr_ | is there some reason they can't just stick it in an envelope? | 04:47 |
| nox- | luke-jr_, maybe they want a tracking #? | 04:47 |
| openstandards | luke-jr, is it costing you any extra? :D | 04:47 |
| luke-jr_ | openstandards: no, but probably slower | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: *L*O*L* | 04:48 |
| luke-jr_ | Friday to Wednesday | 04:48 |
| luke-jr_ | pretty sure an envelope would have got here Sat or Mon | 04:48 |
| luke-jr_ | ' | 04:48 |
| openstandards | the sip stack for the n900 seems ok must admit | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: BTW this diagram is incorrect (or call it BS) | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | where's OSS today? | 04:49 |
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| luke-jr_ | openstandards: the SIP stack predates 770 too | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ALSA soundcard drivers are native, not OSS | 04:49 |
| nox- | well libasound _can_ go via oss too if you reall need it | 04:50 |
| nox- | (like we sometimes do on freebsd :) | 04:50 |
| nox- | really | 04:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, everything *can* use OSS, but that diagram is as wrong as it gets, regarding what's a standard linux audio system nowadays | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | even 3 years back | 04:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even twinkle has OSS audio device support, though it's kinda deprecated (like OSS at large since, err 2002?) and probably not working anymore | 04:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now PA is raiding the scene and boldly claiming it's going to fix all the flaws in ALSA that actually are not in ALSA but in PA | 04:58 |
| nox- | haha | 04:58 |
| nox- | chrome for example needs alsa | 04:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | example? ALSA dmix, PA dudes say it never worked - for me it works flawlessly and like a charm, since I fixed my config, but !!PA!! is eating 30% cpu by mixing idle streams. So what's the broken mixer of the both? | 05:00 |
| nox- | i wonder if its about `userfriendliness' again... | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | granted, ALSA config is a nightmare, mainly due to missing or abyssmal docs. But is that a good reason to discard the code/software instead of fixing the docs? | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | and, is PA doc any better? | 05:02 |
| nox- | yeah im not disagreeing with you... | 05:02 |
| openstandards | why do some bother with oss? | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | who does? | 05:03 |
| nox- | the oss like we have on freebsd has in-kernel mixing and per-app volume control for example... | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | OSS is actually officially deprecated, since years | 05:03 |
| nox- | on linux, yes | 05:04 |
| openstandards | when i used arch alot did | 05:04 |
| openstandards | that was about two years ago tho | 05:05 |
| nox- | so freebsd users neither need an .asoundrc nor any `sound daemons' usually | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: (per app vol, mixing) great - seems it's on par with ALSA, almost at least :-D | 05:05 |
| nox- | just sayin' :) | 05:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, another evidence you can live (much better) *without* that PA abomination | 05:06 |
| nox- | exactly | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, night peeps | 05:07 |
| nox- | sweet dreams... :) | 05:08 |
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| johnx | hallo all :D | 05:12 |
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| b-man` | hey johnx :) | 05:59 |
| johnx | hey :D | 05:59 |
| johnx | what are you hacking on these days? | 05:59 |
| b-man` | trying to get meego's sgx stuff running on debian on my N900 :) | 05:59 |
| johnx | fun fun :) | 06:00 |
| b-man` | btw i turned 18 yesterday :) | 06:00 |
| johnx | congrats | 06:00 |
| b-man` | this week is full of signing paperwork lol | 06:00 |
| b-man` | so what have you been up to? :) | 06:01 |
| johnx | hacking on meego on pandora a bit | 06:02 |
| johnx | right now I'm putting up my own OBS though | 06:02 |
| b-man` | awesome - how well is it running? | 06:02 |
| johnx | It runs ok with the pandora 2.6.27 (28?) kernel, but there are font rendering issues | 06:03 |
| b-man` | hmm | 06:04 |
| johnx | meego really targets 2.6.35, so I'm trying to get the N900 SGX kernel drivers patched in | 06:04 |
| johnx | it's a bit out of my depth, so the progress is pretty slow :| | 06:05 |
| b-man` | i've been having trouble getting udev to recognise the internal and external memory from within debian on 2.6.28/2.6.35 | 06:06 |
| b-man` | plus bme is having issues | 06:06 |
| johnx | which debian? squeeze? unstable? | 06:06 |
| b-man` | squeeze | 06:07 |
| johnx | is N900 using HAL? is squeeze still using HAL, or did it finishing transitioning away? | 06:07 |
| johnx | s/N900/N900 Maemo 5/ | 06:08 |
| infobot | johnx meant: is N900 Maemo 5 using HAL? is squeeze still using HAL, or did it finishing transitioning away? | 06:08 |
| b-man` | it's using upower/policykit | 06:08 |
| b-man` | same stuff as meego | 06:08 |
| johnx | ah, I meant for the memory cards | 06:08 |
| b-man` | no hal | 06:08 |
| johnx | well, that's lucky at least :) | 06:08 |
| b-man` | i'm thinking of using upower/policykit from meego instead to see if it fixes the problem | 06:09 |
| b-man` | and if that does not work, i'll have to live with hal :) | 06:10 |
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| johnx | everyone's dropping it though. doesn't really seem like a good long term option ... | 06:10 |
| b-man` | yeah | 06:11 |
| b-man` | which is why i'm trying my best to avoid it ;) | 06:11 |
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| johnx | what are you using for a desktop? | 06:13 |
| b-man` | Toshiba Satellite | 06:13 |
| johnx | I mean in debian :P | 06:13 |
| b-man` | oh lol, gnome :) | 06:13 |
| johnx | gah. isn't that like painful? | 06:13 |
| b-man` | i'm thinking of adopting meego's ux though | 06:13 |
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| b-man` | yes | 06:14 |
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| johnx | why not just come over to meego? | 06:14 |
| b-man` | dunno, i just feel compelled to do things myself :) | 06:14 |
| johnx | fair enough | 06:14 |
| johnx | that's how you learn after all :) | 06:15 |
| b-man` | indeed :) | 06:15 |
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| b-man` | anyways, g2g - need to go to bed as i have school tomorrow, c ya johnx | 06:16 |
| johnx | enjoy :) | 06:16 |
| johnx | 'night | 06:16 |
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| e1ioan | epage, are you around here? | 06:36 |
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| Jaizuke | hi | 06:50 |
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| andrewfblack | Anyone ever able to get internet connect from another phone on N900? | 07:03 |
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| ludens | andrewfblack: you mean using mobile-hotspot? | 07:17 |
| ludens | never tried it | 07:17 |
| ludens | but should work | 07:17 |
| ludens | that or bluetooth | 07:18 |
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| andrewfblack | ludens: was trying the other way to get internet to my N900 | 07:20 |
| andrewfblack | N900 wont connect to work network and no cell service on it so wanted to connect to my blackberry | 07:20 |
| ludens | oh i see | 07:21 |
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| ludens | no idea but shouldnt it be able to act as a bluetooth modem | 07:22 |
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| Jaizuke | I dont think the blackberry method would work, blackberry is too secure you can't even tether via bluetooth to alaptop | 07:28 |
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| openstandards | should the n900 report a sd card being corrupt if its been formatted to ext3 | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 08:35 |
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| openstandards | ok, cheers i was thinking i had done something wrong | 08:36 |
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| openstandards | the linux support for it is half baked :( | 08:37 |
| openstandards | i hope meego is better | 08:37 |
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| wmarone | linux support for what? | 08:40 |
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| luke-jr_ | wmarone: N900 I would assume | 08:45 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | where does one go to find out what repo has a package - in my case I am looking for screen | 08:48 |
| openstandards | well for a while i've been thinking the sd card is messed up just because the gui tells me it can't read it when it can basically | 08:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | jpinix: its in the tools repo. Just a second | 08:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 | 08:50 |
| noodles900 | RobbieThe1st: thanks - that's the same link as you gave me yesterday, but it does not specify the line to add to my sources list | 08:50 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yes it does. | 08:51 |
| RobbieThe1st | Under "Installation" | 08:51 |
| luke-jr_ | openstandards: at least it didn't try to format it for you ;) | 08:51 |
| openstandards | luke-jr, too true :) | 08:51 |
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| noodles900 | RobbieThe1st: thanks - forgive my incompetence - I am used to just working the cli and adding a simple line to a sources.list ;) | 08:54 |
| RobbieThe1st | ... | 08:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | It -says- the deb line | 08:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | quote: If you prefer to edit configuration files yourself instead of using the Application manager, add these lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list | 08:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | # fremantle tools | 08:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | deb http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools free non-free | 08:56 |
| noodles900 | RobbieThe1st: yep - got that thenks | 08:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | np | 08:57 |
| noodles900 | it's done, installed and broken :/ | 08:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | ? | 08:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | What's broken? | 08:57 |
| noodles900 | Setting up screen (4.0.3-0.3osso4+0m5) ... | 08:58 |
| noodles900 | /var/lib/dpkg/info/screen.postinst: line 23: /usr/sbin/add-shell: not found | 08:58 |
| noodles900 | install-info(/usr/share/info/screen.info): no file /usr/share/info/dir, retrieving backup file /var/backups/infodir.bak. | 08:58 |
| RobbieThe1st | well, does typing "screen" produce an error? | 08:58 |
| noodles900 | the applicaion appears to work, but what's the file-not-found and using backups all about? | 08:59 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Ignore it. Most likely whoever made the package didn't do it quite right, or forgot something | 09:00 |
| RobbieThe1st | if it -runs-, you can safely ignore most errors | 09:00 |
| jpinx-eeepc | eeek :/ | 09:01 |
| jpinx-eeepc | but ok -- thanks | 09:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, NP | 09:01 |
| * jpinx-eeepc is used to debain stable -- no errors ;) | 09:01 | |
| luke-jr_ | Debian is a real distro :P | 09:01 |
| * RobbieThe1st is running Debian Squeeze x64 currently | 09:02 | |
| luke-jr_ | there is no such thing as x64 >_< | 09:02 |
| * jpinx-eeepc is running squeeze in a chroot in the n900 | 09:02 | |
| RobbieThe1st | x86_64 then, close enough | 09:02 |
| * luke-jr_ is running Gentoo stable on N900 | 09:02 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | poor luke-jr_ :( | 09:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | ^^ | 09:03 |
| jpinx-eeepc | "Genttoo" and "stable" can not appear in the same sentence without quotes ;) | 09:03 |
| luke-jr_ | heh | 09:03 |
| * jpinx-eeepc can't decide whether to learn more meaemo or make maemo more debian ;) | 09:04 | |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, erm, aside from the hildon-desktop and other packages, I'm not sure whats's different..? | 09:05 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Sure, BusyBox is the default shell, but that's more a matter of space-saving, and bash is availaible | 09:05 |
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| * noodles900ch has busybox and lxde on the eeepc | 09:06 | |
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| noodles900 | Hmm - let's see if I can break screen | 09:10 |
| Ljrn900 | try a fork | 09:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | screen -dm apptolaunch | 09:11 |
| noodles900 | heh | 09:11 |
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| * Ljrn900 ponders if anyone has forkbombed N900 | 09:11 | |
| noodles900 | RobbieThe1st: this is me in screen in maemo | 09:12 |
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| noodles900ch | and this is me chrooted into squeeze, in a screen | 09:12 |
| RobbieThe1st | :P | 09:12 |
| noodles900 | has anyone got bitlbee to install on maemo? | 09:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | Meh, I haven't made a chroot myself; not sure what it would gain me | 09:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | I haven't really run into things that would run under that that won't directly that I could actually use | 09:13 |
| noodles900 | RobbieThe1st: to be honest the chroot was a quick way for me to ge working on the n900 while I learned a bit abou8t maemo | 09:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | Fair enough | 09:14 |
| noodles900 | Hmm -- no bitlbee in the repos | 09:14 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I dunno... I wonder if Runescape would run any better on Debian-OpenJDK via a chroot than it does on the current version of IcedTea6 for Maemo... | 09:15 |
| noodles900 | RobbieThe1st: probably ;) | 09:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | ..Why? | 09:16 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Wouldn't it run worse or something, being as its an extra level of OS between the processor and the app..? | 09:17 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | the chroot really has no overhead to speak of | 09:19 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | goddam -- getting lost amongst screens within screens :( | 09:20 |
| RobbieThe1st | screen -r 's handy | 09:20 |
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| noodles900 | what's -r do? | 09:23 |
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| RobbieThe1st | reconnect | 09:24 |
| TermanaDesire | jpinx-eeepc: except having to load up the extra libc etc. into memory | 09:24 |
| RobbieThe1st | And if there's more than one, it'll list them | 09:24 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | RobbieThe1st: screen session in the eeepc, contains ssh to n900 screen session. | 09:25 |
| jpinx-eeepc | also contains ssh into screen session in chroot in n900 ;) | 09:25 |
| jpinx-eeepc | which - just for fun - has ssh tunnelling into a remote box for http proxy | 09:26 |
| lcuk | morning #maemo | 09:27 |
| RobbieThe1st | Ouch | 09:27 |
| jpinx-eeepc | RobbieThe1st: I have to cope with some serious "filtering" byt ISP's here ;) | 09:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | It's more the several-layers of screens between it and you | 09:29 |
| RobbieThe1st | But yea, I use one of those ssh tunnels myself; I love it. | 09:29 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yea - well - the connection is like a dialup anyway - so speed is not an issue | 09:29 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | and again - I set it up in the chroot for ease, but now I am getting more familiar with maemo, that will go away | 09:30 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, erm, it shouldn't matter - syntax is the same | 09:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | You will need the ssh-client package though | 09:32 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Anyone famialiar with PyQT? | 09:37 |
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| JZA | hi I need help | 09:52 |
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| RobbieThe1st | With? | 09:52 |
| JZA | how can I flash my maemo to the latest firmware I am using Mandriva 2010 | 09:52 |
| RobbieThe1st | Download the flasher utility | 09:52 |
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| JZA | and I get a message saying Unable to enumerate USB devices! | 09:53 |
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| RobbieThe1st | run as root | 09:53 |
| JZA | I did | 09:53 |
| RobbieThe1st | Paste the full message here? | 09:54 |
| JZA | ./flasher-3.5 -F ../RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin -f -R | 09:54 |
| JZA | thats the command I put | 09:54 |
| jpinx-eeepc | maybe as root and not sudo? | 09:54 |
| RobbieThe1st | Which is correct | 09:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | sudo should be able to do it as well, fakeroot probably can't | 09:54 |
| RobbieThe1st | What's the error message | 09:54 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: depends on his sudo config maybe | 09:54 |
| JZA | RobbieThe1st: the full message is huge, let me pastebin it | 09:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | K | 09:55 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, probably but *shrugs* I usually do sudo -i anyway | 09:55 |
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| RobbieThe1st | what's sudo -i do? | 09:55 |
| JZA | http://jza.pastebin.com/gaNj5by8 | 09:56 |
| psycho_oreos | RobbieThe1st, gives you root shell | 09:56 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I mean vs regular sudo | 09:56 |
| jpinx-eeepc | why not use su? | 09:56 |
| jpinx-eeepc | *shrugz* | 09:57 |
| psycho_oreos | sudo -i gives you bash prompt provided that you have yourself on sudoers list with rights to execute bin/bash or whatever and using your own password | 09:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | Ah | 09:57 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, afaik that requires root password not user's password | 09:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | q | 09:57 |
| psycho_oreos | s/bash/shell/g | 09:57 |
| psycho_oreos | s/bash/shell/ | 09:57 |
| JZA | RobbieThe1st: so? | 09:58 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Um, try "rmmod cdc_phonet" | 09:58 |
| RobbieThe1st | and rmmod phonet | 09:58 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Otherwise, a Ubuntu LiveCD may be a good idea | 09:59 |
| JZA | rmmod cdc_phonet and then try the same? | 10:00 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 10:00 |
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| JZA | RobbieThe1st: why will it work on ubuntu but not on the rest? | 10:03 |
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| RobbieThe1st | It should work on most | 10:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | I just -know- it works on Ubuntu and Debian | 10:03 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | when I run apt-get -f install . it tries to remove almost everything :( I'm trying to resolve dependencies for bitlbee | 10:06 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | RobbieThe1st: any clues? http://paste.debian.net/96001/ | 10:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | Do you, by chance, have a Debian repo in there? | 10:11 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | nope - here's the attempted install of bitlbee .. http://paste.debian.net/96002/ | 10:12 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Do an apt-get update | 10:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | It looks like one of the dependancies conflicts with an important package | 10:13 |
| jpinx-eeepc | sources -- http://paste.debian.net/96003/ | 10:13 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | yea - I did the update after adding the tools repos you gave me about ten minutes ago | 10:14 |
| RobbieThe1st | I'd post on the Maemo forums; I've never seen anything like it aside from a major conflict | 10:14 |
| jpinx-eeepc | oki doki | 10:14 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I'll need to join the forums :( | 10:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Not a big deal | 10:15 |
| timeless_mbp1 | hey Stskeeps, et al, i've been asked (by TI) to note that the Flash 10.1 arm thing is really not for end users | 10:15 |
| *** timeless_mbp1 is now known as timeless_mbp | 10:15 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | and go back to using bitlbee in the chroot ;) | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp1: quite aware | 10:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Why not, specifically? | 10:15 |
| timeless_mbp | specifically it's really targeted at vendors | 10:15 |
| timeless_mbp | to show off features and to help them look at modern chips from TI | 10:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | That's silly | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | at least, that's the short of it, i got a sizable email on the subject | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: um | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine you're a hardware vendor | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | you're in the business of selling NEW hardware to NEW or existing customers | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: my goal was to evaluate it on top of meego arm so that was good enough for me | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't have any dealings with end users | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't have support contracts to end users | 10:17 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: indeed | 10:17 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: each trial you offer incurs some overhead | 10:17 |
| RobbieThe1st | Nah, what I mean is that Adobe already has this. They should be giving copies out also. Either that, or providing this to all TI-based devices | 10:17 |
| timeless_mbp | there are support costs | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | i noted the performance in fennec-qt was horrid under meego and hence it was worth seeing if it was a meego-fennec problem or if it worked under microb | 10:17 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: well, that's more or less the point | 10:17 |
| timeless_mbp | end users should be getting flash10.1 from either adobe or nokia (their vendor) | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | not from TI | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | so, basically, our fennec-qt sucks on meego ;) | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | TI's release isn't targeted at end users | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it's targeted at companies like Nokia | 10:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | So the real question is: How come TI has it, yet everyone else doesn't? Why isn't Nokia or Adobe providing it yet(well, I know the reason: Money)? | 10:19 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: roughly, instead of you trying to get a trial from TI, you should complain to Nokia (/Nokia Care) about the fact that it's missing | 10:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: that isn't the reason | 10:19 |
| timeless_mbp | Adobe _probably_ isn't releasing it yet because it probably isn't finished/good enough for whatever their standard is | 10:19 |
| timeless_mbp | (or perhaps because they have a stupid entangling license agreement w/ another company) | 10:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | Nokia _probably_ isn't releasing it yet for probably similar reasons, or perhaps because someone decided to sit on it, or that there was some other schedule for it, or not to do it, or because someone's being annoying | 10:20 |
| RobbieThe1st | Either way, it means that -- realisticly -- we won't get it for months, unless someone breaks their agreement and it gets leaked | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | I can't speak for Nokia | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | even if i actually do know something about nokia's plans | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | (and i try very hard not to know *anything* about Nokia's plans) | 10:20 |
| RobbieThe1st | Can you go ask them about it, or bring up our wishes as users? | 10:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: yeah, well | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 10:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | That sucks | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | pointless, be a proper user and complain to Nokia Care directly | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i've said this before and i'll say it again: | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia Care like all other support systems works on a bucket based system | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | each complaint is sorted into a bucket | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | if the bucket overflows, someone gets pestered about it | 10:22 |
| timeless_mbp | your goal as an annoyed customer is to manage to get your problem into an overflowing bucket | 10:22 |
| timeless_mbp | we *do* get bothered by nokia care when an issue gets raised too often | 10:22 |
| timeless_mbp | basically end users do have power here, but not as a silent majority | 10:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | Do you know any specific words/methods to make sure you get into the "release Flash 10.1" bucket? | 10:22 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I suppose I could go make a forum topic with the link and proper keywords; try to get the hundred+ people complaining about it into the right area | 10:23 |
| timeless_mbp | ideally it'd be more like "My n900 can't visit site X, it says it requires Flash 10.1" | 10:24 |
| timeless_mbp | preferably X should be both relatively consistent and fairly major | 10:24 |
| timeless_mbp | if X is a hobbyist site, someone will figure out you're gaming and try to ignore you | 10:24 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, I don't offhand know of site X. so that's really your first step.. | 10:24 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hm... I suppose it'd have to be either Youtube or - what's that other major streaming site? | 10:25 |
| Myrtti | RobbieThe1st: calling/emailing/visiting nokia care is always better than a forum topic | 10:25 |
| Myrtti | RobbieThe1st: that way they *have* to deal with you | 10:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | Myrtti: Forum topic's there before I was, and that's where people -are | 10:25 |
| Myrtti | I've said this so many times it's getting boring, but "other people's stupidity doesn't warrant yours" | 10:26 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: afaik youtube "works" | 10:26 |
| timeless_mbp | generally speaking the major one is youporn | 10:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and i don't remember if that works | 10:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | ... I'm trying to figure out the best way to solve the problem here | 10:27 |
| Myrtti | vimeo / ustream / bambuser etc | 10:27 |
| Myrtti | I have no idea if those work either | 10:27 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm, what about veoh | 10:27 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 10:27 | |
| timeless_mbp | it really isn't ok for me to *organize* this | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | since that'd be me wagging the dog (my employer) | 10:28 |
| * Myrtti is trying to ignore timeless_mbp very hard ;-) | 10:28 | |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 10:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, I know. That's why I'm going to do it, I'm just asking you pointed questions about how to best do it | 10:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | ;) | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, what i'm saying here is nothing new, i've said it before (in this channel) on a number of occasions | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | bothering whichever company's support group (in numbers) is always right | 10:29 |
| RobbieThe1st | First time I've seen it though; Only found this channel a good week ago | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | remember that support tickets cost money, so someone is supposed to monitor them | 10:29 |
| Myrtti | I feel so old now ;_____; | 10:29 |
| RobbieThe1st | I thought they just ignored them entirely | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | nah | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | that'd be stupid | 10:30 |
| Myrtti | support tickets are complaints from paying customers | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | you get a really bad reaction if customers discover you're ignoring your support line | 10:30 |
| Myrtti | forum posts etc can be made by anyone | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | they tell their friends not to buy the product because the support is bad | 10:30 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, judging by the complaint posts I see in the forum... | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | no company, not even really dumb companies, can afford to do that | 10:30 |
| Myrtti | "forum posts etc can be made by anyone" | 10:30 |
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| RobbieThe1st | That happened like six months ago. Everyone I've seen says that they think nokia's support is the worst ever. Sure, it may not be official, but its close enough | 10:31 |
| Myrtti | it's not totally unique or new trick to rig forum posts this or that way by a third party | 10:31 |
| Myrtti | not that I'm saying it's done on t.m.o, but it is possible | 10:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey avs, did i mention i have a shiny chip-id card? :) | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | (i've already lost the pin, but..) | 10:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, sure, but when you are talking about accounts that have been around for months, and have lots of other, on-topic posts... it would be hard to fake. So, while I agree its possible, I'm just saying that -realisticly-... | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | :o | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | Google Chrome just offered me a beta via a popup notice from the w7 taskbar | 10:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | (no, google chrome was not running, the only things running are Windows Update [busy] and AV [weekly scan]) | 10:34 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Evil! | 10:34 |
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| * RST38h yawns and stretches | 10:38 | |
| * timeless_mbp waits for windows update to finish | 10:38 | |
| RST38h | Sooo, what is new and exciting? PR1.3? N9? Meego Devices switching to Dalvik? | 10:38 |
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| Myrtti | lollololollers | 10:39 |
| jpinx-eeepc | RobbieThe1st: posted that on users maillist | 10:39 |
| RobbieThe1st | Alright I guess; I never watch mailinglists so... | 10:39 |
| jpinx-eeepc | where else should I try? | 10:39 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Forum. talk.maemo.org | 10:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | Most questions get a response, that I've seen | 10:40 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Aaach -- too many places -- ok | 10:40 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Oh, that reminds me: timeless, do you know anything about the mtd_utils (specificly nandwrite etc.) that come with the N900? | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 10:46 |
| RobbieThe1st | Alright then | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: i thought they're not bundled | 10:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | Really? No nandwrite? | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: i think when i need stuff like that i go to the internal who owns it and ask them to fix | 10:47 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I'm trying to find a nand-safe way to read/write images of the rootfs. I've already got a ramdisk chroot, so I can safely do it, but... I can't find any man-pages on this stuff! | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | there are rare advantages to employment + being onsite :) | 10:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | I get grumped at for using DD (which, admittedly, has some problems with bad blocks), but I can't fix it, as I can't find any information on -how- to do so. >.< | 10:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, I suppose there are | 10:49 |
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| mece | RobbieThe1st, well how does the flasher do it? | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | no one in their right mind uses dd | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | and there's no "fix" | 10:50 |
| RobbieThe1st | It doesn't read it. That's one problem right there | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't a bug | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | just a behavioral disconnect | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | dd = raw i/o | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | flash = system that *will* have bad blocks | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | hence => use a different tool | 10:51 |
| RobbieThe1st | Um... Fix as in "make some sort of nokia-flasher flashable rootfs image" | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: then mkfs.ubifs based on the root image :P | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure there are tools for that | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 10:52 |
| mece | You want to save "state" of the device, amiright? | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: that's what i do locally | 10:52 |
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| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: rsync to microsd, mkfs.ubifs on computer | 10:52 |
| mece | yay! new meego image :) | 10:52 |
| RobbieThe1st | Ok, so working at the file level then? | 10:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: btw, is it faster to rsync to uSD or [ip] ? | 10:53 |
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| Stskeeps | good question | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | i think i rsync actually | 10:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | please find out :) | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | rsync can be used for either | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | (rsync is too versatile) | 10:54 |
| RobbieThe1st | Thing is, the whole goal of this project is to build a system that will backup and restore N900 state images -without- using a computer. So, using mkfs.ubifs on the computer won't really work. I did figure out a way to just make and restore tarballs of files, which also should work... | 10:54 |
| RST38h | How do I find out the IP address on a plain vanilla Maemo5? | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: well, you cn technically mkfs.ubifs on device | 10:55 |
| RST38h | (i.e. no additional tools installed) | 10:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | RST: ifconfig | 10:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | may need to be run as root though | 10:55 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: open xterm | 10:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it's in sbin not bin (ie not $PATH) | 10:55 |
| RST38h | ah, thanks | 10:55 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Ok, so type "/sbin/ifconfig". There you go | 10:56 |
| timeless_mbp | /sbin/ifconfig | 10:56 |
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| mece | scout is a great app. just sayin' | 10:57 |
| RST38h | Nah, no real IP. Pity, but expectable | 10:57 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hm... Just a question, and I'm sure there's a simple answer for it. So, I chroot to my ramdisk, unmount the rootfs and mount it to, say, /tmp/rootfs. Is there anything that will get screwed up by doing "rm -rf /tmp/rootfs/*" before restoring files to it? | 10:58 |
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| mece | RST38h, what do you mean no real ip? | 10:59 |
| dneary | hi | 10:59 |
| crashanddie | hey dneary | 10:59 |
| mece | dneary, hi | 10:59 |
| dneary | hi anddia | 10:59 |
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| dneary | anddie | 10:59 |
| crashanddie | anddie? | 10:59 |
| RobbieThe1st | RST: You can always go to www.whatismyip.org to find your external IP | 11:00 |
| TermanaN900 | nearhe | 11:00 |
| dneary | Yeah | 11:00 |
| dneary | Crash Anddie | 11:01 |
| dneary | A funny way to spell Andy, but hey, it's IRC | 11:01 |
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| dneary | Ppl dont no how 2 spl here | 11:01 |
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| crashanddie | you just broke my sarcasmeter | 11:02 |
| TermanaN900 | dneary, what's funny about that is that for a while i actually thought that's what he's nick said until i actually checked the spelling on it | 11:02 |
| dneary | crashanddie, http://thomasbeagle.net/files/care-o-meter.gif | 11:03 |
| mece | heh | 11:03 |
| crashanddie | TermanaN900, When I started out IRC in the early 90s, Undernet had a 9char limit on nicknames | 11:04 |
| crashanddie | TermanaN900, which meant my nick was "CrashandD" | 11:04 |
| crashanddie | because I was mainly in dutch channels, people thought it was "kras hand" (scratch hand) | 11:04 |
| TermanaN900 | lol | 11:05 |
| crashanddie | I can't believe I just told a story from nearly two decades ago | 11:05 |
| RST38h | mece: I am behind NAT. Hence, no real external IP to ssh to. | 11:05 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, reverse SSH? | 11:05 |
| RobbieThe1st | If you have access to the router, you can port-forward | 11:05 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: too complicated for a cow. | 11:06 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, not really complicated once you wrap your head around, or are we talking about peanut brain power? | 11:06 |
| mece | RST38h, then I guess you don't know without consulting your nat or whatsmyip.org or some other place that gives your ip | 11:06 |
| mece | like sshing somewhere and see there where you're connecting from? | 11:07 |
| crashanddie | dneary, talking about spelling, in Amsterdam, I had someone ask me if you were Romanian or something, because your French was good, but sounded a tad weird at times. When I said you were Irish, they replied "Ah yes, different alphabet doesn't help" | 11:07 |
| crashanddie | To this day, I'm still not sure if they were joking or not. | 11:08 |
| mece | I agree that the irish alphabet is difficult | 11:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | gaelic/celtic? | 11:15 |
| dneary | crashanddie, Funny :) | 11:20 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp, Ogham | 11:20 |
| * timeless_mbp waits for a computer w/ a working web browser to become available | 11:21 | |
| dneary | crashanddie, Romanian was already funny - I guess they never heard me speak English? | 11:21 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp, We've had those for years | 11:21 |
| dneary | (/me drops OT chatter for now...) | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | my n900 is syncing and i want to watch status, my mac is spending all its memory on windows, and windows is updating java | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | => no browser hosts | 11:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, java's done. reboot! | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | (the reboot was for the w7 updates which i installed first, not for java, but..) | 11:22 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Ah, that's one thing I like about linux: Never having to reboot after updates | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | grr | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | why does everyone think I'm "Josef"? | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | it's bad enough people think I'm Tim Eless | 11:24 |
| joga | RobbieThe1st, well, you have to boot sometimes, or just the old stuff will be in memory | 11:24 |
| joga | and of course when the kernel is updated unless you use magic trickery | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: linux really isn't better | 11:25 |
| SpeedEvil | joga: if you start/stop daemons - then stuff goes away | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | in theory there's a in kernel patcher for kernel stuff | 11:25 |
| SpeedEvil | joga: very little remains in RAM. | 11:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, for me it just installs the new kernel on the next reboot. So while technically I'd have to reboot | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but if you have libraries loaded for critical services, you're going to somehow need to get those kicked | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | at a certain point you might as well reboot | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and you're insane if you think the windows approach is bad | 11:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | I can generally finish my session, go to bed, and then tomorrow have it all updated | 11:25 |
| joga | SpeedEvil, yeah but some core libs probably stay until you reboot or make a big effort | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | consider that you have an n900 running PR1.2 | 11:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | which is *how* stale? | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | most ubuntu boxes i visit are nearly as bad (or worse) | 11:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, by stale, you mean? | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i mean most of the apps have updates that you don't have | 11:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | I've got the latest updates in extras-devel, so... | 11:26 |
| SpeedEvil | core apps | 11:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: omigosh! | 11:27 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: hmm? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | mountains moved. the earth shook. my patch for symbian was commited! | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: scary | 11:27 |
| mece | wow | 11:27 |
| RobbieThe1st | What, one step closer to a stable, working OS? Wow | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | nah | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | it was a giant spelling patch | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | just to see how their patch management system works | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the answer is poorly, and rather slowly, but it does work | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll provide a url once i get a working browser available near this irc client | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: actually, i suspect that it means that the time to integrate a patch into symbian is better than the time to get a fix into maemo | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | for maemo my estimate has been 18 months | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i think it took around 10 months for my patch to land in "for next release" | 11:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | and if they're doing a half year release cycle, that should mean the patch gets out in <18 :o | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | well, next question is when it lands in a product release | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i know | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | but they have 7 months to beat the 18 month number for maemo | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | (which is report => product release) | 11:31 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, I'm glad that at least most of Maemo's OSS, so people can go develop their own patches and get them applied before the snail reporting system finally gets around to it | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | it's not really, but ok | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | 43% | 11:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: this was reported to the symbian foundation using their open bug tracker (bugzilla) | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | based on their open source (mercurial managed) repositories | 11:33 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Then, why does it take so darn long? | 11:33 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:33 |
| RobbieThe1st | Actually, though, I meant about the 18-month Maemo cycle | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: oh | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: morn | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | that's basically "find a bug past the freeze date for a product which isn't shipping" | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | that means: | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. wait for that product to get out the door | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. wait for its replacement to get out the door | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | that generally averages to around 18 months | 11:34 |
| RobbieThe1st | It seems like, on Linux based systems like these, you should have monthly or bi-monthly updates to the firmware, provided its bugs that are found | 11:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | well | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | monthly is definitely out | 11:36 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Framework's already in place, all that would be needed is to upload new packages as-needed | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | it takes a month or so to test+certify an image | 11:36 |
| RST38h | ...and here we go again. | 11:37 |
| RobbieThe1st | RST? | 11:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: that said, from my perspective as an engineer, i agree | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | and as someone working on security, i want to be able to push a release w/in 2 weeks | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | but from seeing how things are done in a big company (and nokia is big) | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it just isn't practical | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | aiming for 6 months is unfortunately realistic, and 3 months is optimistic | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | and by the time you reach 6 months you start competing for resources | 11:38 |
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| RobbieThe1st | It seems like the security and issues like this should be left to individual OS/device team groups, so you guys would end up doing the whole find > test > betatest > release cycle yourself | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | the groups aren't organized in any way that helps any of this | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | currently things are organized more or less by product | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. delivery of a complete stack for the n900 | 11:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | which means that if you e.g. want to update the browser, you have to ensure that the media player doesn't regress while playing newer media content from a third party | 11:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | which might have changed its codec to be one that doesn't work well w/ the *unchanged* media player | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | it's possible to have an update scuttled because of something like that | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | (in general it isn't quite that bad, but..) | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | the idea is that you do *not* want to ship an update which regresses things | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | people *must* trust the update process | 11:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | so, there's a general belief (in management) that it's better to be late than early + buggy | 11:42 |
| RST38h | One more time: update all non-critical packages (i.e. not requiring certification) and push them to Extras-devel or some other non-legally-binding repo | 11:42 |
| RobbieThe1st | While I understand that this won't happen, it seems like this should be dealt with through "devel", "testing" repos - Then, these things can be tested with a lot of people, etc. | 11:42 |
| RST38h | Let users test them, collect bug reports, stir, repeat | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: i'm not opposed | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | but to do that, you need a real team of people (not paid by nokia) to manage the reports | 11:43 |
| RST38h | That is the problem: NOBODY is opposed, but it is just not getting DONE. | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | actually converting them to something useful | 11:43 |
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| RST38h | Guess what, we have even got people who manage reports | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | really? | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | andre doesn't count here | 11:43 |
| RST38h | well, b.m.o is being managed rather well, isn't it? | 11:43 |
| RST38h | Why doesn't Anfre count? | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | he's paid to do <x>, and this would be above <x> | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | you're asking for additional workload | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | (not sure who Anfre is btw) | 11:45 |
| RobbieThe1st | And again, on my side of things as the user: I run into a battery-eating bug, like the hildon-desktop bug. Now, it pretty much makes the device hard to use if not "broken" until its fixed; even a minor regression would be worth a fix. Fortunately, some kid managed to make a patch for it and provided a good fix, but still... | 11:45 |
| TermanaN900 | timeless_mbp, i think he means Andre | 11:45 |
| RST38h | Ok. Have one person do bug reports management. Properly. | 11:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: imagine if the update included something which was that battery eating bug | 11:46 |
| andre__ | (Proper bug reports management also involves developers and I don't really see them in bugs.maemo.org yet.) | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine if most of the testers encounter it but can't figure it out | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: yet is optimistic | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | at this point i think that boat isn't going to sail | 11:46 |
| RST38h | Testers are not supposed to "figure it out". They are supposed to correclty report observed behaviour. | 11:47 |
| RST38h | Developers are supposed to figure it out and fix it. | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: not correct | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | ideally QA figures it out | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | developers are supposed to fix | 11:47 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, the thing is, despite the best practices you guys are using, it still got into PR1.2. So, yes, it will happen occasionally, which is why releasing a fix as soon as possible should have priority and shouldn't take months. | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Have you ever seen QA figuring out the cause of a bug? | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | but keep in mind that you're asking to split resources | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: sure, for 10 years in realm:mozilla.org | 11:48 |
| RST38h | I mean, real, full-time, salaried QA? | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 11:48 |
| RST38h | mozilla must be special then | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | the salaried people @netscape, @sun, @ibm, @moco | 11:48 |
| RST38h | QA runs tests and reports testing results, afaik | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | (sun and ibm weren't specifically mozilla related) | 11:48 |
| RST38h | They do not do debugging | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | you're also missing a class of engineer | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | sun/oracle and friends have it | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | they aren't developers, they're engineers who actually do customer oriented analysis/debugging | 11:49 |
| * timeless_mbp can't remember the shiny title for that | 11:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | (microsoft has them too, and they posted a "we're hiring" ad w/in the past 4 months iirc) | 11:50 |
| RobbieThe1st | Slightly off topic here, do you see any changes happening thanks to the new CEO etc.? | 11:51 |
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| RST38h | timeless: TCE/TME? | 11:52 |
| RST38h | timeless: these are not QA | 11:52 |
| RST38h | And yes, they do shitloads of debugging, they are just not QA :) | 11:52 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: nothing worth speaking about | 11:53 |
| RobbieThe1st | Sad. Oh well. | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia generally does reorgs every 12-24 months anyway | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | and someone said one was scheduled for around now | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | which means things would have shifted anyway... | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | he did come to visit the office, and was apparently well received | 11:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | but it's really way too early for him to have a significant effect on things | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | beyond the obvious bits where people come/go because management changes | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | one surprise i got was meeting someone who joined *because* the new ceo joined (and he arranged to start the same day) | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | that to me shows some amount of confidence from others in him, which is probably one of the more meaningful indicators one can have this early | 11:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 11:56 |
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| RST38h | or it may show a certain amount of incincerity ;) | 12:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, sorry, it was only 8 months, not 10 months for the symbian landing | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | and afaict it's only landed in their internal repo, not the public hg | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | but still, if i understand their schedule, it will probably beat the maemo 18 month average | 12:16 |
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| RST38h | So, which one is it: too few developers or too many roadblocks they have to jump over to do their work? | 12:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | roadblocks and roads | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | one developer is given e.g. 20 roads to go down | 12:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | consider my symbian bug http://developer.symbian.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=1948 | 12:24 |
| povbot | Bug 1948: is not accessible. | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | i gave one developer an extra road to go down | 12:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | roads: | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. Symbian^3 ("stable") | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. Symbian^4 ("future") basic work | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. Vacation :) | 12:25 |
| RST38h | Eeek | 12:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | 4. My extra task for him = one more road | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | in reality he probably had 5-20 roads for point 1 | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and another 5-30 for point 2 | 12:25 |
| RST38h | And doing this in an evolutionary way, sharing components that are the same, is definitely NOT a solution? | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and vacation involves planning, doing, reading email to recover | 12:26 |
| RST38h | Also, isn't this a task for his project manager to correctly serialize different tasks and assign them to different people? | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | (it took me ~8 days to recover from a 1 month vacation) | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | ah | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want to look at it that way, then too few developers | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | for my bug, it was properly serialized | 12:26 |
| RST38h | Ok, so too few developers | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it was incredibly unimportant | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | thus it deserved to be stuck at the very bottom of the pile | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | well... | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you do know that adding developers doesn't magical get things done faster, right? | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | the managers here don't | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | they seem to think that doubling or tripling a team will magically double or triple productivity | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the reality is that new devs have to learn the stack, which generally means slowing down existing devs by asking for help (one way or the other) | 12:28 |
| jarkkom | current troubles at nokia have been discussed quite a lot in finnish press but someone counted like 300+ people with "vice president" title at nokia | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | jarkkom: heh | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | (doesn't shock me at all) | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia is "top heavy" | 12:28 |
| jarkkom | or as someone said that's too many people who can say "no" to feature while getting "yes" means going to CEO level | 12:29 |
| RST38h | timeless: of course, it depends on the task at hand | 12:30 |
| jarkkom | timeless_mbp, also middle management.. I had a friend who was at Research and he reported to 4 different managers, he figured out if he simply stopped showing up it would probably takes couple of years before they'd notice | 12:30 |
| RST38h | Three excavators will not dig a tight hole faster than one | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | jarkkom: i have around that many managers | 12:31 |
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| RST38h | But in this particular case, with this bug, it could be handled by some other person (not subsystem owner) perfectly well | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | when people ask me who my manager, i have to stop and think | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | after i bit, i ask them "what do you mean?" | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: actually, no | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | the problem w/ a bug like this is that it incurs merge conflicts to any other pending work | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | plus there /might/ actually be some changes buried in it which are in fact dangerous | 12:32 |
| Appiah | hmm no changes to bug #6907. Kinda sucks when the music just starts playing after a phone call >_> | 12:32 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6907 Media Player widget suddenly starts music after Phone call ends | 12:32 |
| Appiah | thought this was fixed in PR1.2 | 12:32 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 12:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | Appiah: my personal gripe: | 12:32 |
| Appiah | hmm? | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | [still] Camera doesn't work while on a Call | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not trying to record a video , just take a photo of something i see | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | but that's illegal while i'm on the phone | 12:33 |
| * timeless_mbp curses managers | 12:33 | |
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| Appiah | haha what? | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | (or ui designers, whichever) | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | try it yourself... | 12:33 |
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| Appiah | never ever thought of taking a picture while I'm on the phone | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | to perfectly reproduce, set up a skype account (no money required), call +1800555TELL w/ skype | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a free call | 12:34 |
| Appiah | ah skype test center? | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | then try to take a photo | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a real us phone service | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | +1-800-xxx-xxxx are free via skype | 12:34 |
| Appiah | I see | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | as are +(xx)800 numbers for various european countries | 12:34 |
| jarkkom | did they give any reason? I know that everything involving camera has some pretty weird legal restrictions around it | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | (and 1888/1877/1866 the other toll free numbers) | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | jarkkom: supposedly a requirement to play a click sound | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | so yeah, basically it's some idiot's legal restriction | 12:35 |
| jarkkom | yeah that's legal requirement in some regions | 12:35 |
| Appiah | cant it send that out of the speaker meanwhile then? | 12:35 |
| Appiah | just the stupid click sond | 12:35 |
| Appiah | sound* | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc the regions don't include countries our product is sold | 12:35 |
| crashanddie | sure it can | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | s/our/where our/ | 12:36 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: iirc the regions don't include countries where our product is sold | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | but... | 12:36 |
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| crashanddie | just look at the fact that even with headphones plugged in, some sounds are still sent on the loudspeakers | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | the reality is that people blame lots of things on lawyers | 12:38 |
| Appiah | think I'm gonna remove the media player widget for now... cant have my music starting randomly after calls when im at the office.. | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't the lawyers' fault | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | and there's generally a way to avoid the problem and still get work done | 12:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's sometimes a matter of thinking creatively (for about 5s) | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | but that can be a really big problem in certain countries | 12:39 |
| RobbieThe1st | ...Like provide a "global" version with the required functionality that can be user-flashed | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: no | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | like Appiah's thought "can't it send that out of the speaker..." | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | global versions wouldn't protect anyone from legal liability at all | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone dumb enough to suggest that *would* be slapped by the lawyers | 12:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | Wouldn't it be the user's fault then? | 12:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | probably not | 12:40 |
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| Appiah | eeeep I dont wanna be slapped by lawyers =( | 12:40 |
| jarkkom | legal system in middle east where that is pressing issue doesn't quite work that way | 12:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | If the user manages to download a version(or modifiy it themselves) that's not designed for their region/device, its still Nokia's fault? | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: often it is | 12:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | e.g. if the user takes a nokia phone and uses it to crash a cellular network | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia will get the blame | 12:41 |
| RST38h | timeless: There is a version control system to make merging easier | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: ever tried merging 2000 changes? | 12:41 |
| Appiah | wait , so they can punish companies for using open OSs? | 12:41 |
| RobbieThe1st | Then, how does Nokia protect itself? | 12:41 |
| RST38h | And if some developers do not do frequent commits of their work, they are doing their work wrong | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp:accesssec timeless$ grep '^@@' .hg/patches/*|wc -l | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | 918 | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | so i only had 918 changes | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | not 2000 changes | 12:42 |
| RobbieThe1st | Appiah: It would be more like blaming Microsoft because someone got a virus and it brought down their network | 12:42 |
| RST38h | timeless: Yes, I did. Hence, frequent commits of work-in-progress. | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | but if you have a couple of pending changes of your own... | 12:42 |
| jarkkom | Appiah, in many countries they can and will punish companies for whatever reason they feel like, just look at issues RIM is having right now | 12:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | jarkkom++ | 12:42 |
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| Appiah | RIM jarkkom ? | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Appiah: please don't assume the world is rational | 12:43 |
| Appiah | timeless_mbp: I try not to | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | and please don't assume that the only part of the world that isn't rational is corporations | 12:43 |
| RobbieThe1st | huh; what happens if the company doesn't have a presence in the area? | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Appiah: google RIM UAE | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | RobbieThe1st: global companies *want* to be able to have a presence | 12:43 |
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| crashanddie | RobbieThe1st, actually, if Microsoft had a contract with someone to provide a "secure operating system" that in any way "would not bring down their network", then they could | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | and ignoring that, it can mean that all of their employees are forbidden to travel there | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise they might risk imprisonment | 12:43 |
| Appiah | err | 12:44 |
| Appiah | censorship | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Appiah: um, yeah | 12:44 |
| Appiah | *sigh* | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | the real world is not the utopia you think it is | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | look at China | 12:44 |
| RobbieThe1st | crashanddie: Yet, I don't think Nokia(etc) has ever said that their device/os is perfectly secure? How could that work then? | 12:44 |
| Appiah | woaah I never thought the world was an utopia | 12:44 |
| RST38h | it is the utopia you do not think it is | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | a guy gets a nobel prize or something, his wife gets sent to prison | 12:44 |
| RobbieThe1st | And yea, things need to be changed. Probably forcefully. | 12:44 |
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| RST38h | well, he has got his nobel prize exactly for risking to be sent to prizon | 12:45 |
| RST38h | So, I do not see how this is irrational | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | there was another case somewhere else in SE Asia where a guy got into further trouble because someone else tried to *visit* him | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: his wife didn't get a prize | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | just prison | 12:45 |
| RST38h | Well, next time Osama bin Laden tries visiting YOU, make sure you cover the aftermatch in your blog | 12:46 |
| RST38h | (if you will still have one) | 12:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think my blog's web server is currently down | 12:46 |
| RST38h | Well, lacking the guy himself, his family is the next logical target | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 12:46 |
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| RST38h | So, no, the Chinese may be cruel, but they are by no means absurd | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | lacking the company | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | the next logical target is empoyees | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | to use RST38h's logic for my point | 12:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | which was exactly what i wanted to express | 12:47 |
| RST38h | Instead, try that US kid who brought a toy gun to school and has been banned from the state school system for a year now | 12:47 |
| RST38h | Actually, employees are a piss poor target | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Appiah: fwiw, a colleague of mine couldn't visit the US for a while | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | because his company had pending litigation | 12:47 |
| RobbieThe1st | It seems very hard to do anything multi-national; have -any- features different on a per-region basis... | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | if he visited, he'd have been stuck in jail until the trial was resolved | 12:48 |
| RST38h | Although they can be used as such at the times of dire need. See Russian Government vs. British Petroleum case | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | so don't think that this is a SE-Asia or ME only thing | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | employees/companies are affected even in the "civilized" world | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | countries do not like to be messed with | 12:49 |
| RST38h | You want highranking employees though | 12:49 |
| RST38h | I.e. yourself are not at risk | 12:49 |
| RST38h | (or me, for this reason) | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and they generally do not care who they hurt | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: when i say colleague, i mean a fellow engineer of roughly the same pay grade as me, working in my team | 12:49 |
| RST38h | Well, a state is not a person, so normal human taboos (like ethics) do not apply | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | sure a country will try to take the highest person it can | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | arresting a CEO is much better than a janitor | 12:50 |
| RST38h | Corollary: When you see a state make a stately move, run for your life :) | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | but if all you can get is a secretary, you might take it | 12:50 |
| RST38h | Arresting a secretary or an engineer is useless | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | depends | 12:51 |
| RST38h | I mean, some stupid middle eastern monarchy may do it on a whim | 12:51 |
| RST38h | But states like China or Russia will either go for the top manager or some systemic move that prevents company from functioning | 12:51 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: have you read "On the Wings of Eagles"? | 12:51 |
| RST38h | No | 12:52 |
| timeless_mbp | some companies do care about their employees | 12:52 |
| timeless_mbp | EDS apparently was one | 12:52 |
| timeless_mbp | (pretty amazing story btw, worth the read) | 12:52 |
| RST38h | EDS? Yea, right... :) | 12:52 |
| * RST38h will not comment on this particular statement :) | 12:53 | |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: yeah, general views of EDS aside | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | what they did there was good | 12:54 |
| jarkkom | it isn't that long ago when bunch of nokia siemens guys got arrested for couple of weeks once because Iran and UAE are arguing about bunch of islands | 12:54 |
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| jarkkom | their fishing trip included extra vacation time in iran | 12:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:55 |
| * timeless_mbp shouldn't be laughing … at all | 12:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Iran+arrests+three+Nokia+Siemens+employees+in+Persian+Gulf/1135227804843 | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | seems to be jarkkom's item | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i should note that Nokia Maps isn't very good | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | you can try it yourself, you can visit "Detroit, Canada" | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | (technically that's really more of a German sourced feature than a Finnish sourced feature, but...) | 12:59 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | Ha! Try using the maps here :( | 13:01 |
| Appiah | timeless_mbp: had a friend apply for a student visa (US) and waited like the instruction said some days for (maybe it was 3) for a response. after 5 days he sent another one since he didnt get any response. He got a answer 1 day after day and they declined him beacuse he sent 2 :) | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 13:02 |
| RST38h | timeless: The keyword is Iran. | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: *shrug* | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | UAE isn't much better | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Same | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | RIM ended up w/ trouble in *most* ME countries | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Petty middle eastern monarchies, Do not go there. | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Same for most of the Africa, | 13:02 |
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| RST38h | And yes, I can tell you a few really savory stories about people getting in trouble in the US, straight out of the blue | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | of note, Iran isn't a monarchy :) | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | (not that the difference matters) | 13:04 |
| RST38h | Not yet, right | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, democracies in those countries wouldn't make things better | 13:04 |
| RST38h | Should go through at least one hereditary power transfer | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: yeah well… until then it isn't technically a monarchy | 13:04 |
| RST38h | That last statement is too deep for the scope of this discussion | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | and even then, that means you're calling N. Korea a monarchy | 13:05 |
| RST38h | Yes, I am | 13:05 |
| RST38h | Any problems with that? | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | Iraq and Afghanistan are "democracies", but that doesn't help | 13:05 |
| marmoute | RST38h: monargie as nothing to do with hereditary transfert | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | you need a rational educated middle class | 13:05 |
| * timeless_mbp lets marmoute cover that point | 13:05 | |
| RST38h | Iraq and Afghanistan are two US-occupied shitholes | 13:05 |
| RST38h | And, in the latter case, the US helped making it a shithole in the 80s. | 13:06 |
| RST38h | Otherwise, it would be a semi-normal post-socialist failed state by now. :) | 13:06 |
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| Myrtti | oh christ, I read about Facebook new security features for 5 minutes, and you've already moved over to the crazyhouse stuff | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 13:08 |
| marmoute | One day, our beloved french president dismiss monarchical accusation by saying "I'm not the son of my predecessors". when people raised that monarchy as nothing to do with this he quickly evade the question. | 13:12 |
| marmoute | This was "fun" | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | url-ref? | 13:13 |
| marmoute | timeless_mbp: for the french stuff or the hereditary stuff ? | 13:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | the whole blob? | 13:15 |
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| marmoute | The french stuff is quite old I'm not sure to find it. The hereridary stuff: Any monarch definition in a decent dictionnary | 13:17 |
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| TermanaN900 | That's funny, you think being the french president he would just surrender to the questions | 13:18 |
| TermanaN900 | YEEAHH | 13:19 |
| marmoute | timeless_mbp: I can't find non french report. | 13:19 |
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| alterego | pahaha: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/13/film_week/ | 13:27 |
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| lardman|home | alterego: looking for nsfw.com and accidentally went to nsfw.org? ;) | 13:42 |
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| alterego | lardman: :D | 13:42 |
| * lardman hasn't looked at nsfw.com yet, is it work-safe? | 13:43 | |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 13:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | Apart from all the nsfw | 13:46 |
| lardman | hmm | 13:46 |
| lardman | note to self, never trust SpeedEvil ;) | 13:47 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | dammit - anyone got the usb networking to really work - including the use of a laptop hosts wifi as the gateway for things like application manager? | 13:52 |
| pupnik | I think Nokia is making a mistake not saying N900 will officially get 'meego' as an upgrade. | 13:52 |
| pupnik | I mean... Build a bridge, guys. | 13:53 |
| openstandards | lmao @ SpeedEvil, thanks.... good thing i ain't at work :) | 13:53 |
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| pupnik | So what are the market surveys saying people want smaller phones with less battery life | 13:54 |
| openstandards | also would give them a good testing platform too | 13:54 |
| openstandards | I like the size of the n900, and i just keep an extra battery in my wallet :) | 13:55 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, I have, but in my setup I have desktop going through wired | 13:56 |
| psycho_oreos | and for that you need dummy networking, its explained in that same usb networking page | 13:56 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: yea - I tried the dummy network, but it didn't seem to do it -- maybe I'll try again... | 13:59 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, if its successful you should have dummy network option under networks | 14:00 |
| jpinx-eeepc | openstandards: that means powering down the whole device - a very poor solution | 14:00 |
| psycho_oreos | and if its right it should be selected with personal IP address showing the ip address of usb0 | 14:00 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: yea - i got that before,. Maybe i need to try different options on it | 14:00 |
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| openstandards | jpinx-eeepc, the battery life isn't too bad if you don't keep on your wifi...etc | 14:01 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: ok - thanks - I'll persevere tonight and see if I can make it behave | 14:01 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, well in the wiki for that there's two ways, I think they initially mention using null but they later recommended dummy and then specified ways in which you can get dummy network to appear | 14:01 |
| jpinx-eeepc | openstandards: I have stuff running all the time, even when not online, so powering down is not an option | 14:02 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: yes - I was using dummy | 14:02 |
| openstandards | fair enough, then those external battery packs exist | 14:03 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: I use thiss eeepc as a thin client to ssh in for the sake of the kbd and screen, and for now the wifi - 'cos it's a crappy public wifi with web-based login | 14:03 |
| jpinx-eeepc | openstandards: 50% increase in the bulk of the battery would probably double it's capacity | 14:04 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, lol you can still use n900 solely to connect those public wifi, maccas out where I live have similar setup but really its easy to setup usb networking | 14:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | and only add maybe 1mm to the phone | 14:04 |
| openstandards | bigger batteries do exist but i don't think you can use the camera then, bad bad design flaw in the after market battery | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, ping | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ... | 14:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | s/.../pong/ | 14:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | got a ph0, disassembled the device, sorta, but I hesitated to take out the ribbon | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | nod | 14:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | reassembled it, screen's still moving | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 14:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | I might remove the ribbon | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | proly slider mech defect | 14:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | then tighten the slider itself | 14:09 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i'm not surprised really, fell a long distance yesterday | 14:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | car braked, so it flew a bit | 14:09 |
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| MohammadAG51 | btw DocScrutinizer, I cycled the bouncer, no more lag | 14:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | (jumped to next server) | 14:10 |
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| openstandards | has anyone tried the neopwn packet injection driver | 14:10 |
| openstandards | ? | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 14:10 |
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| MohammadAG51 | openstandards, yes, it works | 14:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | I cracked my school's WEP | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: they will shoot you one day | 14:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, I used hostmode to pull off some docs from the teacher's flash, I told her about it after I pulled them though lol | 14:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | noobs! | 14:12 |
| openstandards | takes hours to write to sd :( | 14:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | dd from sd to eMMC, whole device will hang | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | takes hours to cp from sd to eMMC | 14:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, the whole device crashed when I wanted to dd if=SD of=somewhereoneMMC | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | no need to dd, a simple cp will do | 14:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | I only had 1MB of files on the SD... | 14:14 |
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| openstandards | thats what i'm doing tar to /dev/mm ...... started at 9ish this morning its now noon | 14:14 |
| Myrtti | dd has a tendency to be oversimplifying | 14:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, and for hostmode, mounting on /media/somefolder WILL rape the CPU | 14:15 |
| Myrtti | and thus making things more difficult | 14:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | tracker kicks in, indexes the flash drive or DVD | 14:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | then thumbnailer follows | 14:15 |
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| MohammadAG51 | when you remove the flash, it thinks you deleted the files, reindexes whole device | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | cp -a did same for me | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | after 10 min the last process froze | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | swap being usual suspect | 14:17 |
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| MohammadAG51 | yeah, and the kernel bug | 14:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | iirc X-Fade said the issue with writing to eMMC was reduced in 1.3 | 14:17 |
| ShadowJK | People refer to a "kernel bug", but the one I've seen quoted is a bug introduced after the ancient kernel on n900? | 14:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | issue with writing ? have no, over ass rage I got err 13MB/s | 14:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | Any -right- way to remove the thumbnailer? As in, any way to make it work "on-demand", and just thumbnail as icons are shown? | 14:18 |
| ShadowJK | And really only applies to multi-device situations | 14:18 |
| ShadowJK | where one device is significantly faster/slower than the other | 14:18 |
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| * ShadowJK wants one device per function :( | 14:21 | |
| ShadowJK | dedicated swap device | 14:21 |
| ShadowJK | dedicated application device, and device for media storage | 14:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer tries to calculate how long it takes minimum to fill a class2 16G uSD, fails, wanders off for coffee and a hot lemmon | 14:21 | |
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| ShadowJK | 2.5 hours or so | 14:24 |
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| wazd | hi all | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 14:24 |
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| ShadowJK | About 6 with write-seek heavy load going on simultaneously on the source card :) | 14:24 |
| ShadowJK | 6-12.. | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 14:25 |
| ShadowJK | I accidentally bought a Class 2 microsd once | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | it actually felt faster than a class 6 fullsize SD card | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | in my N800, swapping to it | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if this class6 SD is dual/quad channel or something, would explain why it seems slower | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | larger blocks | 14:27 |
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| ShadowJK | 8G vs 16G | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | could be | 14:27 |
| wazd | Jaffa: ping? :) | 14:27 |
| neekers | to set up using a c compiler and c++ compiler, is this the proper command? sb2-init -c /usr/bin/qemu-arm armv7 /home/nick/arm-2010q1/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc /home/nick/arm-2010q1/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ | 14:27 |
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| ShadowJK | scary | 14:29 |
| neekers | heh | 14:30 |
| neekers | what i wrote? | 14:30 |
| ShadowJK | yah | 14:30 |
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| neekers | i keep getting a /lib/cpp fails sanity check when i run .configure in sb2 | 14:31 |
| neekers | i added the second compiler with sb2-init and it didn't complain but it didn't solve the sanity check error either... | 14:32 |
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| neekers | i know that sb2 lets you change the target on the fly but can you change the compiler? | 14:33 |
| ShadowJK | I'm entirely clueless about sb and sb2 :) | 14:34 |
| neekers | don't you use sb2 with maemo? | 14:34 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: I've got libicd-network-null installed and done the two commands specified, but not the last two optional ones. What needs restarting to make it effective? | 14:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 14:35 |
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| MohammadAG51 | how do I convert an mp4 file to mpe | 14:35 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: and done killall icd2 | 14:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | mp3 | 14:35 |
| ShadowJK | I use the vm image that comes preinstalled with something painful.. | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | how do i convert a zoo into a rabbit? | 14:36 |
| RST38h | Doc: Kill every animal but the rabbit? | 14:36 |
| neekers | meat grinder | 14:36 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, you should see null network or something like that, do you see that entry? | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | look, with mp4 it's the same :-P | 14:37 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, under internet connection | 14:37 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yep - selected that | 14:37 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, seriously, I want to remove the video stream | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | kill it :-P | 14:37 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, try surfing the web now through n900, it should use yer laptop's wifi | 14:38 |
| ShadowJK | mplayer file.mp4 -ao pcm -aofile sound.wav -vo null -vc dummy ; lame sound.wav sound.mp3 ; rm sound.wav | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | seriously NFC. I guess some video edit apps might have an option to save audio separately | 14:38 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it does . but it's application manager that was not connecting before | 14:38 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | running appl mngr now.... | 14:39 |
| pupnik | Just saw a 1987 Cheers where a joke was made out of Frasier's brand-new _Cell_Phone_ ringing in his suitcase, and Carla picking up the payphone in the back of the bar because she was fooled by the ringing of the cell phone. | 14:39 |
| Jaffa | wazd: pong | 14:39 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, imo if the browser works through it then application manager or whichever other applications that utilises the dbus should be able to connect by now | 14:40 |
| mece | MohammadAG51, something like mplayer -dumpaudio video.mp4 -dumpfile sound.wav | 14:40 |
| mece | oh, ShadowJK's was better :) | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | mece, that dumps the raw audio, in whatever format it is | 14:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer utters a toast on ShadowJK | 14:40 | |
| ShadowJK | and raw aac usually "doesn't work" since information required for playback is stored in the container | 14:40 |
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| mece | ShadowJK, good to know :) | 14:41 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: I had the browser working before, but not app mngr | 14:41 |
| ShadowJK | it'd work to extract mp3 though, because each mp3 frame is essentially self contained | 14:41 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: it says it's checking for updates... very slow.... | 14:41 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, yeah which is weird imo, when I checked the connection with browser its usually a tell tale sign | 14:42 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, yup HAM is like that :) | 14:42 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: ok - progress bar is moving -- just ;) | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: what did you say is your daywork? | 14:43 |
| ShadowJK | I didn't | 14:43 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, had it been me I would have gkrellm running on the USB host to see the network activity | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm sure you occasionally mentioned it | 14:43 |
| smooph | Hi anybody here try the kubuntu mobile for the n900 | 14:43 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: it says (no updates available) | 14:43 |
| smooph | ? | 14:43 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: but that could mean anything... | 14:44 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, yeah but if there would be an error it would show that and if you check under the repositories instead of green circle you get red circle with white asterisk marked on the repository lines | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: whatever it is, your boss oughta be damn happy about you | 14:44 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: where do the repos show up? | 14:45 |
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| MohammadAG51 | ShadowJK, thanks | 14:45 |
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| ShadowJK | Now I'm getting paranoid, what have I done | 14:46 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | Bah! Operation in progress - please wait :( | 14:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe, demonstrating a rarely found level of knowledge and professionalism for a long continuous period - that's all | 14:47 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, lol I have CPU/MEM status bar for that, after HAM gets the files it needs to do loads of stuff which usually hogs CPU.. but after hogging CPU it dives down and its generally ok for one to check the repos | 14:47 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: so how do I know when it's munching or just sulking? | 14:48 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, you can't imo.. you can only tell if its busy or not with HAM and using the CPU/MEM status applet | 14:49 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | where do I get that? | 14:49 |
| jpinx-eeepc | if HAM isn't behaving :( | 14:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | any recommednations for video editors? | 14:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | need to mix music with a video | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | load applet is mandatory, like RPM meter in a car | 14:50 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, its in the normal repos afaik, I didn't get just that I got one that bundles that with screenshot and video recording tool | 14:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | I drive without an RPM meter | 14:50 |
| * psycho_oreos checks his under HAM | 14:50 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: Hmm . applicaation manager has the little rotsting wand thing going on here.... | 14:51 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, yeah its still doing its job lol | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: load applet | 14:52 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: system tools? | 14:52 |
| psycho_oreos | oh mine is already done (despite enabling red pill mode) | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: HAM for me takes like 5min to 'open' | 14:52 |
| jpinx-eeepc | whic catalogue | 14:52 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | what's the name of the applet in the listing? | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: no idea really, I'd guess load applet should be in extras now | 14:53 |
| jpinx-eeepc | sheesh I wish it was just apt-get install foo | 14:53 |
| psycho_oreos | yup as DocScrutinizer said, load applet.. and go into All, start typing in the letters for the name of the app | 14:53 |
| psycho_oreos | you can | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | name: "load applet" | 14:53 |
| psycho_oreos | load-applet it is if you're doing it via apt-get in CLI | 14:55 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I lovve it - "do you agree that this might totally brick your device" WTF? :) | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | let me goog... err apt-cache search that for you :-) | 14:55 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it's coming.... | 14:55 |
| jpinx-eeepc | but then - so is Xmas.... | 14:55 |
| psycho_oreos | reminds me of some bloke ranting on in the tmo threads about putting as much warnings on extras-devel and extras-testing repos | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# apt-cache search load|grep applet | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | load-applet - Show CPU and memory usage, take screenshots, record screencasts. | 14:56 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | w00t - it says it's installed | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | what did w0ot to it? | 14:57 |
| jpinx-eeepc | so HAM must be using the wifi on my laptop over the usb network | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 14:57 |
| * jpinx-eeepc updates again.... | 14:57 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, a particularly nice and annoying part | 14:58 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yikes - there's all kinds of little gremlins in the taskbar now | 14:58 |
| openstandards | is usb host mode working with the n900 now? | 14:58 |
| psycho_oreos | well there you go usb networking is working now | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | kinda, yes | 14:59 |
| jpinx-eeepc | openstandards: yes -- as of 5 minut6es ago :) | 14:59 |
| openstandards | kinda? | 14:59 |
| openstandards | :) | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824197#post824197 | 14:59 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: ok - two little bargraphs - which one is telling me what? | 15:00 |
| openstandards | i love the n900 | 15:00 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, first bar (left) is CPU, second bar (right) is MEM | 15:00 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: that page should be in the topic here ;) | 15:00 |
| openstandards | the community that works on it is outstanding | 15:00 |
| jpinx-eeepc | OOooer - red cpu | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: duh, why? | 15:01 |
| jpinx-eeepc | updating again | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: aiui red means system cpu load | 15:01 |
| jpinx-eeepc | psycho_oreos: cool - that's making sense now :) thanks a bunch :) | 15:01 |
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| * jpinx-eeepc fires up a few apps to see the redbars... | 15:02 | |
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| jpinx-eeepc | Hmm .. of course you can only see the bars in the desktop toolbar, not when the app window is open... :/ | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | while true; do :; done | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | watch cpu hit the roof | 15:03 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx-eeepc, no worries.. and if you see red flashing (only the top most block on one bar or two if at worst) it means its using almost all CPU load | 15:03 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yea - i guessed that ;) Is there a way to see the load bars when an app window is open? | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | make sure you got a second xterm open, and maybe nice the loop suggested above :-) otherwise killing it might get hard | 15:04 |
| dolp | QMessageManager countMessages function is brokeeeeen.. anyone tried it? | 15:04 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: that'll make it fry eggs :p | 15:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep :-P | 15:05 |
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| * jpinx-eeepc goes for food | 15:06 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | testing unplug/replug....u | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: (is there a way) sure, usually the status bar is visible with app windows as well, no? | 15:07 |
| jpinx-eeepc | nope | 15:07 |
| _trine | has anyone else noticed recaller making several identical recordings for 1 event ? | 15:07 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: my bad - I had it fullscreen | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | friggin bs apps like ovi maps or canola think they know better how to display this :-/ | 15:08 |
| jpinx-eeepc | maps and stuff are totally useless to me out here | 15:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | USA and europe only I suppose | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | how silly is *that*? go for fullscreen, then emulate the top bar | 15:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | the browser is the only app I have found that actually goes fullscreen - the rest still reserve top or bottom... | 15:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer is cursing indicator LED not blinking blue despite inbound mail - just a green charging indication | 15:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: ovi maps also is fullscreen *always* | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | the status area shown upper left in ovi maps screen is a fake | 15:13 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I Hmm' | 15:14 |
| * jpinx-eeepc fires up maps | 15:14 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | looking for GPS... | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | xchat easily goes fullscreen on ctrl-enter, as does xterm on klicking the toolbar fullscreen icon | 15:14 |
| jpinx-eeepc | boy is it slow compared to te iphone | 15:15 |
| jpinx-eeepc | irssi is in an Xterm, so reserves a bottom bar for virtual Esc Ctrl etc | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 15:16 |
| jpinx-eeepc | heh - maps is only about 1000kms out | 15:16 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it's got me in HoChiMinh | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | one of the worst things in ovi maps is it's re-rendering all the street names for every single pixel of window moving - useless cpu load | 15:17 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | yea - it's trying to render the whole of SE Asia in pretty colours now... | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: odds are it gets you to "center of your country" until a real GPS fix got established | 15:18 |
| _trine | has anyone had a problems with 'recaller' making multiple recordings ? | 15:19 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I'll leave it running to see how it gets on | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | _trine: yes | 15:19 |
| _trine | DocScrutinizer, was there a solution | 15:19 |
| jpinx-eeepc | but it's just as well I am not lost in a taxi!! :) | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | _trine: reboot, and disable nottifications :-S | 15:20 |
| _trine | DocScrutinizer, which modifications ? | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | notifying every 30s "ongoing record: 123456432_foo_bar.acc" | 15:21 |
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| _trine | DocScrutinizer, I dont understand | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | _trine: seems it's happening when I finish a call before far end answered | 15:22 |
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| _trine | I was wondering if there were multiple instances of 'recaller' somehow | 15:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | _trine: my problem was recaller popping up a notification every 30s about "recording active: <name of file>", after I did a call and finished it without far end responding | 15:23 |
| _trine | well its not done that yet here | 15:24 |
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| _trine | but it is making several recordings of the same event | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | the major PITA of recaller is it's running as a desktop widget | 15:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | dammit - cpu on red, stomach on empty :( | 15:24 |
| _trine | DocScrutinizer, yes I agree but I dont know of anything better to do the same job | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | so aiui you a) got no proper distinct process to monitor, kill etc, and b) you probably actually get multiple recaller instances when you got multiple desktop widgets | 15:25 |
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| _trine | DocScrutinizer, yes I did have a widget on 2 different screens but I have corrected that now,, one of the widgets was hiding underneath another | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | see? | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's been the cause | 15:27 |
| _trine | DocScrutinizer, yes I'm waiting for when I need to use my phone again to test that now | 15:28 |
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| _trine | I dont want to waste a call for just a test | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | some people exploiting that "bug" to have one recaller instance for phonecall recording, another one configured to be used as dictaphone etc | 15:29 |
| _trine | I like the bar code reader app | 15:29 |
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| _trine | DocScrutinizer, thats a good idea I never thought of doing that | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I actually kinda hate that concept, it's kinky | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | recaller should become a proper app, rather than a widget | 15:31 |
| _trine | I tried 'recorder' app and thats terrible | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | with proper daemon started via initscript, to auto-record calls (or maybe even hook into dbus-scripting) | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | running a whole app (even multiple instances) under the cloak of hildon-desktop widget manager (whatever the real name of this one) is a disgusting idea | 15:33 |
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| fcrochik | DocScrutinizer51: you just gave me another idea for mycontacts: auto record calls from a group of contacts.... This way one can record for example just the work related calss | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fcrochik: check barisione 's per contact ringtones pkg. It has plugin API to do other nice things depending on data stored to contacts | 15:37 |
| fcrochik | DocScrutinizer51: tor | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | tor? | 15:38 |
| fcrochik | DocScrutinizer51: I saw that but mycontacts (my app) does other stuff too.... | 15:38 |
| GAN900 | Sponsorship emails sure are taking forever. | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lo GAN900 | 15:39 |
| fcrochik | DocScrutinizer51: TOR=seems that communi on the n900 does not handle the tab right | 15:39 |
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| fcrochik | DocScrutinizer51: word prediction and TAB for nicknames needs some fine tunning | 15:41 |
| dneary | amigadave, Ping? | 15:41 |
| dneary | amigadave, I'm running through the getting started docs again | 15:41 |
| dneary | & it seems like we're missing a "testing your package on your N900" section in the Packaging article | 15:42 |
| dneary | What do you think? | 15:42 |
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| amigadave | dneary: pong | 15:45 |
| amigadave | good idea, what sort of testing do you envisage? | 15:45 |
| amigadave | looking at the package contents, testing installation, etc.? | 15:46 |
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| dneary | Well, I just tried to install hello.deb on my n900 and got "invalid package" | 15:48 |
| dneary | Basically, how to copy a .deb onto the phone & install it | 15:48 |
| dneary | bbiaw... | 15:49 |
| dneary | (appointment) | 15:49 |
| amigadave | ok | 15:49 |
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| _trine | dneary, from a console use dkpg -i app.deb | 15:50 |
| _trine | dpkg | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, landlord cutting the ivy and now my phone landline is dead :-/ | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, I couldn't resist, disassembled my device | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG | and the ribbon | 15:52 |
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| GAN900 | Hi, DocScrutinizer51. | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: for any reason? | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | yes, slider's a bit creaky, device fell twice in a month | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 15:56 |
| MohammadAG | one of those situations was close to yours, bed sheets | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | The worst enemy! | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you happen to have it in a case? | 15:56 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | no scratches, it fell on a soft surface, but the slider has a ~1mm gap | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | soft surfaces are usually worse than hard surfaces | 15:57 |
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| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer51: haha... good thing you're not on dsl | 15:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | disassembling is easy. reassembling and not breaking it... isn't | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ieatlint: yeah, cursing the burriedness of "switch to wlan if available" | 16:00 |
| crashanddie_ | disassembling arm binary code is a bitch though | 16:00 |
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| Myrtti | I dropped my Nexus One on Sunday and it cracked a bit, and I was scared shit of "just push it back in place, dumbass" | 16:01 |
| ieatlint | rj11 is easily repaired... just annoying | 16:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it's not exactly rj11, but yes. He just called me announcing a 60min downtime to find a better path for the cable, now that it's cut anyway XD | 16:03 |
| dsg | huh, my n900 just rebooted in my pocket | 16:03 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 pondering tethering N900 to LAN | 16:04 | |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, and then god said, let there be light! | 16:10 |
| MohammadAG | my N900 powered on xP | 16:10 |
| jaska | and there was blue screen! | 16:10 |
| MohammadAG | though seriously, WHY THE FUCK is the ribbon this light? | 16:11 |
| ShadowJK | 128 grams | 16:11 |
| MohammadAG | it's lighter than the tape | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | More fatigue resistance I suspect | 16:11 |
| ShadowJK | oops, 181 | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Thicker generally means more strain onbending | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the flimpsy part is the b2b connector though, plus the piggybacked 2nd layer FPC jumper patch on there | 16:14 |
| MohammadAG | true, but the PS3 uses almost the same ribbons (they don't clip like this though - they go in a latch and you seal that), and they're much heavier and bend a lot more | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | PS3 got moving FPC? where? | 16:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | dvd? | 16:15 |
| kerio | not a lot of people notice that | 16:16 |
| kerio | because PS3 HAS NO GAEMS | 16:16 |
| vis | there's tekken? | 16:17 |
| vis | no need for other games | 16:17 |
| kerio | pff tekken | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you'd bet the laser block FPC - which is the only one I see moving on a PS3 - is a whole lot smaller and thinner than the screen ribbon in N900 | 16:17 |
| kerio | street fighter > tekken any day of the week | 16:17 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: slot loading drive | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: so what? | 16:18 |
| kerio | maybe that's the moving part | 16:18 |
| kerio | i'd say the rest is pretty... static | 16:18 |
| kerio | \_o_/ | 16:18 |
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| kerio | MohammadAG: what else moves with a ribbon cable? | 16:19 |
| kerio | i mean, in a ps3 | 16:19 |
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| MohammadAG | moving? nothing | 16:19 |
| n900-space | hi all | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | not moving, a lot | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | big fail | 16:20 |
| * MohammadAG disassembles again | 16:20 | |
| kerio | wait, why do they use ribbon cables for static things | 16:20 |
| crashanddie_ | because they're easier to assemble by machines | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: it's usual nowadays | 16:20 |
| * RST38h yawns and sticks a screwdriver into whatever Muhammad is disassembling | 16:20 | |
| crashanddie_ | It's Mohammad | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: start with your own N900? | 16:21 |
| crashanddie_ | http://www.freethunk.net/russells-teapot/jesus-meets-muhammad.jpg | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, ironic reason | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | so you don't use the drive on a PC, yet on the slim it's a SATA cable | 16:23 |
| DarkNostril | i got some other funny religious things i found here | 16:23 |
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| ieatlint | crashanddie_: i'm often criticised for my tasteless and offensive jokes, but i think you definitely win today | 16:25 |
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| crashanddie_ | How about you piss the fuck off and let me be? | 16:25 |
| ieatlint | oh, you misunderstand, i'm not criticising | 16:25 |
| ieatlint | :) | 16:25 |
| crashanddie_ | my bad, then. | 16:26 |
| ieatlint | i usually target christians myself... they're more plentiful where i live, and much more righteous | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 16:26 |
| Myrtti | healthy hobbies etc... | 16:27 |
| ieatlint | eh, my hobby doesn't include telling others about how a mythical figure named god disapproves of them and how they're going to suffer an eternity in hell for being who they are | 16:29 |
| Myrtti | no, it includes telling others how you disapprove them | 16:31 |
| Myrtti | irony ftw | 16:32 |
| Myrtti | ;-) | 16:32 |
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| ieatlint | very true, but with god on their side, it shouldn't matter | 16:32 |
| Myrtti | I must've transported to an alternate universe where all this makes sense somehow | 16:33 |
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| Myrtti | instead of being a venue for discussing maemo, it's a place for discussing monarchies, heredity of rule, north korean hamburgers and religion | 16:34 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, took out ribbon again, still working | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | your model was probably defective | 16:37 |
| * MohammadAG waves | 16:37 | |
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| GAN900 | Myrtti, clearly we need new hardware. | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG51: that's what I (and implicitly Nokia repair) thought as well | 16:39 |
| Myrtti | GAN900: my brain needs less memory | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, tethering N900 to laptop (knetworkmanager) wasn't as simple as I thought it should be | 16:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | I just did it old-skool - and wrote a pppd conf | 16:55 |
| SpeedEvil | pppd call t-mobil | 16:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | yay, fixed it | 16:56 |
| jaska | pppd call ghostbusters | 16:56 |
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| crashanddie_ | jaska, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiH1wNmZTII | 17:01 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | ... | 17:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | where's a link to the theme maker for the N900? | 17:02 |
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| blua | Good morning! After it sat in the junk drawer for years, I finally got my old n800 working again :) :) :) | 17:15 |
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| blua | I got OS2008 on it now and I would love some suggestions for fun things to install that don't need a hardware keyboard. | 17:16 |
| crashanddie_ | blua, enable host mode and connect USB keyboard to it? :) | 17:19 |
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| blua | heheheh... might pick up a nice bluetooth keyboard later. Any ideas for nice touch only programs? It's just a nice toy at this point. I really thought it was never coming back. | 17:20 |
| crashanddie_ | blua, host mode enables you to connect any USB device to it... | 17:21 |
| blua | Can you explain that or point me to documentation for it, please? | 17:21 |
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| crashanddie_ | plenty of results on google for "N800 usb host mode" | 17:22 |
| blua | sure enough... | 17:22 |
| crashanddie_ | http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2008/01/usb-otg-easy-way.html | 17:22 |
| crashanddie_ | seems to be promising | 17:22 |
| crashanddie_ | blua, other fun things: get an arduino to control a hardware lock, then bluetooth shield, then program the n800 to be your own unlocking key | 17:23 |
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| blua | *taking notes* | 17:24 |
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| RST38h | Can I power USB handwarmer off my N900 using USB OTG? | 17:24 |
| crashanddie_ | no | 17:24 |
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| RST38h | Or should I simply run the PSX emulator and use N900 itself as a handwarmer? | 17:25 |
| blua | That would take a lot of juice. | 17:25 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, yup | 17:25 |
| blua | oh there's the punchline.. that was funny :) | 17:25 |
| blua | Any game suggestions? | 17:25 |
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| crashanddie_ | lcuk, I want liqbase-enabled multi-n900 4-in-a-row and naval battle | 17:27 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie_, go for it then | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: meego n900 makes an -excellent- handwarmer. | 17:31 |
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| ShadowJK | ah no, this sandisk class 2 card seems as slow as I'd expect | 17:33 |
| ShadowJK | 25 kilobytes/sec or so :) | 17:34 |
| ShadowJK | 4k random writes | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | blua, FBReader. | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | NumptyPhysics | 17:35 |
| blua | Thank you, gan. | 17:35 |
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| dRbiG | hello! | 17:48 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, that's funny. iozone is claiming it's doing 64k random writes, but iostat shows it as 128k random writes | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | might mean that worst case performance is worse than 25 kilobytes/sec on the sandisk class 2 card :) | 17:53 |
| Jartza | I, ozone | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | strace | 17:54 |
| ShadowJK | It might be kernel joining together two requests despite iozone requesting synchronous | 17:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: hmm, so your estimation of 6..12h is correct then? :-S | 18:02 |
| ShadowJK | no that was more optimistic | 18:02 |
| ShadowJK | by a factor of 100 or so | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm, 177h | 18:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, 25kB/s is a plain joke, not even sufficient for audio recording | 18:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's ... :x ... BAD | 18:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I really wonder what made my N900 freeze on copying from sd to emmc via mass storage mode, while reading from sd worked, as well as writing to emmc | 18:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cache messed up? | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | or buffers? | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | Oh it deadlocks sometimes | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | and all mmc traffic more or less dies | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | when it froze, both the OMAP and even the one core on my laptop were 100% busy on IOwait | 18:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a rather frightening experience to unplug the N900 to recover | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | odd question, but how did freerunner deal with mmc access? | 18:13 |
| ieatlint | intlock | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | the expected massive fs corruption didn't happen though | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | just wondering if we genuinely have a bad mmc chip | 18:13 |
| ShadowJK | dunno, it performs better than most stuff i've seen :-) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: sorry, no expert here | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | it "just worked" | 18:14 |
| ShadowJK | I suspect freerunner wasn't loading it as heavily though? | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for sure not | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | and especially we didn't have 2 concurrent interfaces there, only one uSD on the system | 18:15 |
| lindi- | ShadowJK: DocScrutinizer: what sort of debugging facilities are typically used for kernel debugging on n900? | 18:15 |
| ShadowJK | Well N900 is actually somewhat sensible, N8x0 had one interface and two mmcs :P | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | lindi-: if only I knew a decent answer to this | 18:16 |
| * ShadowJK vaguely recalls seeing a potential deadlock fix go into 2.6.36 or later maybe | 18:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | lindi-: printk :-P | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but yes, looks like a genuine kernel bug rather than a "bad emmc" | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...chip | 18:17 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, but roughly speaking, copying huge amounts of crap right at boot when other stuff is starting up, while tracker and whatever is groping around looking at the emerging files, and with the ram (or lack of) that N900 has, I'd pretty much expect it to take forever | 18:18 |
| ShadowJK | especially with OS running off of mmc | 18:18 |
| ShadowJK | Just imagine every additional stream to or from mmc removes a 0 from the baseline performance :P | 18:19 |
| ShadowJK | a 0 from the end | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | who the hell would copy large amounts of stuff on boot time? | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and then... TRACKER eeeeeeeeeeeek blargh | 18:21 |
| ShadowJK | The act dead thing or whatever mode N900 does SSU in actually has more benefits than just reducing number of open file handles so that the filesystem doesn't become full :-) | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | DIE tracker DIE | 18:22 |
| ShadowJK | It also makes sure there's only like 3 or 4 simultaneous things going on | 18:22 |
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| ShadowJK | first-boot optification is also done under pretty minimal state :-) | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't it irony that sd/mmc seems is less suited for concurrent access than a HDD with physically moving heads? | 18:24 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what about SSDs? | 18:24 |
| ShadowJK | Depends on the SSD :-) | 18:25 |
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| Venemo | I heard there are pretty nice ones | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | those have smart controllers with huge amounts of buffer ram | 18:25 |
| ShadowJK | You can roughly divide them into two camps: before and after intel | 18:25 |
| Venemo | just their price is not very nice | 18:25 |
| ShadowJK | the ram isn't actually used for buffering, you know :-) | 18:25 |
| Venemo | ShadowJK: before and after intel? :D | 18:25 |
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| ShadowJK | Everything before intel's x-25 came out was ultraslow in real life use. SLow as in "Why did my computer pause for a whole second, I just wrote a one-line IM?" | 18:26 |
| Venemo | intel's ssd is so great then? | 18:26 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 18:26 |
| ShadowJK | and there's of course alot of stock left of the pre-intel era, they still built (and build) new SSDs using old controllers | 18:27 |
| jacekowski | but only -e and -m | 18:27 |
| jacekowski | -v version is slow | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then there's also the single-level vs multi-level thingy to consider | 18:28 |
| Venemo | so if I ever wanna buy an SSD, I should buy an intel one? | 18:28 |
| jacekowski | x25-e | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, latest generation intel MLC outperforms first generation intel SLC pretty much | 18:28 |
| jacekowski | that's only one worth buying | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | -v isn't fast, but it isn't slow either :-) | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: but I heard MTBF is some magnitudes higher | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | on MLC | 18:30 |
| kerio | do they have 1tb SSDs for 100€ yet? | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | err lower, means more errors | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: LOL | 18:30 |
| Appiah | haha | 18:30 |
| kerio | they fail then | 18:30 |
| ShadowJK | See, intel is squeezing the market. First they came in and outperformed everyone else by a factor of over 9000 (srsly), but were more expensive. Then other competitors figured out how to make SSDs that didn't suck, ones there were only quarter or half speed of intel's, instead of being 9000 times slower, and also cheaper, which was nice for consumers. Then intel's second generation bumped up performance, AND was cheaper than the competitors.. And now inte | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | l is squeezing at the value end with their -v drives :) | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, the idea is that you run your OS on the SSD, and put your porn on rotating media | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | it's not like you view hundreds of randomly selected jpegs per second anyway. | 18:31 |
| ieatlint | intel got beat though | 18:31 |
| Appiah | but if you had SSD , you COULD | 18:31 |
| ieatlint | fusion-io | 18:31 |
| Appiah | 4 monitors | 18:32 |
| Appiah | scripts just download pics | 18:32 |
| Appiah | putting them on all 4.. | 18:32 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah there are SSDs that perform better than intel's now | 18:32 |
| kerio | downloaded pr0n? wtf | 18:32 |
| kerio | pr0n is in the cloud, noobs | 18:32 |
| Appiah | well some like to go old school | 18:33 |
| kerio | so get VHSes | 18:33 |
| Appiah | :) | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | .oO(XXX) | 18:33 |
| ieatlint | fusion io eliminated the bottleneck of the controller intended for hdds and went with a specially designed controller.. but it suffers from proprietary costs and software | 18:33 |
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| ShadowJK | http://www.anandtech.com/show/2954/5 | 18:36 |
| crashanddie_ | People are stupid | 18:39 |
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| crashanddie_ | "We've finished collecting money for the gift for <some colleague>'s twins. Feel free to recommend gift ideas." "OK, what is our budget?" "We don't feel it is necessary to disclose that information." | 18:40 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah, suggest twin hookers | 18:41 |
| Lynoure | crashanddie_: not necessarily stupid, possibly evil. | 18:41 |
| Lynoure | crashanddie_: one reason not to disclose is to keep part of the money. | 18:41 |
| crashanddie_ | No, I just suggested two BMW R1200GS Adventure bikes -- with stabilisers. | 18:43 |
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| Venemo | is it possible to read the g_debug output of Hildon-Desktop somehow? | 18:49 |
| luke-jr_ | wrong question | 18:49 |
| luke-jr_ | of course it's *possible*… | 18:50 |
| Venemo | luke-jr_: okay, I'll refine the question then. :) | 18:50 |
| Venemo | luke-jr_: how can I read the g_debug output of Hildon-Desktop? | 18:50 |
| luke-jr_ | I think the real question is, how difficult is it? :P | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: install syslog | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | d | 18:50 |
| toggles | crashanddie_: so i saw one parked outside the cafe i had lunch in today, explain the big scoop under the lights.. | 18:51 |
| toggles | looks like a great way to shovel dirt/water into the donk | 18:51 |
| crashanddie_ | sorry? | 18:51 |
| crashanddie_ | oh, the beemer? | 18:51 |
| toggles | BMW R1200GS | 18:51 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, Have you ever seen this happen before: I've packaged a hello, world Hildon app as an armel .deb in Scratchbox, copied the package over to my N900, and when I select it, I get the message "Unable to install 'hello'.\nIncompatible application package." | 18:51 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: thanks | 18:51 |
| crashanddie_ | toggles, yeah, it is a beast | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: Section: user/ missing or something | 18:52 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: although I'm not familiar enough with it... could you please help? | 18:52 |
| dneary | h-a-m needs user/? | 18:52 |
| crashanddie_ | toggles, definitely not for everyone, I drove one a couple times -- the torque is massive, and it really feels robust and everything | 18:52 |
| crashanddie_ | toggles, but I don't think I'll get one, after all. | 18:52 |
| toggles | crashanddie_: you're not onswering my question. | 18:52 |
| toggles | s/onswering/answering | 18:52 |
| crashanddie_ | you asked a question? | 18:52 |
| toggles | never mind. | 18:53 |
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| crashanddie_ | toggles, oh, the eagle beak? | 18:53 |
| crashanddie_ | I'm guessing it's so that you can use it to hunt dear, or something | 18:53 |
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| toggles | i think it's purpose is to shovel water/dirt into the donk. bad idea | 18:54 |
| crashanddie_ | s/dear/deer/ | 18:54 |
| infobot | crashanddie_ meant: I'm guessing it's so that you can use it to hunt deer, or something | 18:54 |
| crashanddie_ | that or maybe some engineering thing that reduces airdrag/vibrations we don't understand? | 18:54 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: okay, installed syslogd. I also found some docs on the net about it, but I'm still not sure what to do with it | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: for manual installed debs, yes | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog | 18:56 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: those files will contain what I'm looking for? | 18:57 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: /var/log/messages is not present and /var/log/syslog does not contain what I'm looking for | 19:00 |
| dneary_ | Stskeeps, You were right. Adding the right Section in debian/control did the trick | 19:01 |
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| dneary_ | OK... application installed on N900 & works. Cool! | 19:03 |
| dneary_ | Still doesn't appear in the application list - I guess I need an icon | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary_: start from xterm for a first test? | 19:05 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: currently it only seems to display messages from the kernel and a few other processes | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: a wild guess: enable debugging output in hildon desktop , and/or rise debug verbosity? | 19:07 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but how do I do that? | 19:07 |
| dneary_ | DocScrutinizer: sure - long done | 19:08 |
| dneary_ | Allow me to explain - I am running through the beginner developer docs for Maemo | 19:08 |
| dneary_ | As if I were a beginner | 19:08 |
| dneary_ | And in the "Getting started" page, there was no link to anything resembling "compiling & packaging" - so I put that in | 19:09 |
| dneary_ | And from the packaging page, there was no info on testing & deploying - so I'm linking to that | 19:09 |
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| dneary_ | And now I'm thinking for basic fit & finish (icon, desktop file, etc) the documentation isn't quite as clear as it could be | 19:10 |
| GAN900 | dneary_, cool. | 19:10 |
| dneary | GAN900, I'm also switching between 2 laptops regularly :) | 19:10 |
| dneary | GAN900, So - if you were to explain to someone who didn't know, how would you explain the minimum steps to follow? | 19:12 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps / luke-jr: will the line 'hildon-desktop /var/log/hildon.log' in /etc/syslog.conf do the trick? | 19:13 |
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| Venemo | it doesn't work... | 19:15 |
| Venemo | :( | 19:15 |
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| Venemo | could anyone help me please? | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | dneary, didn't know what? | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | less +/thermal /etc/sysinfod.conf o.O | 19:19 |
| dneary | GAN900, the minimum steps to follow (once you have a package) to have an icon launcher in the application list | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | Ah, don't ask me. :P | 19:20 |
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| GAN900 | I've never put anything in the application list in my life. | 19:20 |
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| GAN900 | Get your icon, get your .desktop, make sure you're interacting with libosso OK. | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: everything not mentioned explicitly in syslog.conf will show up in default desination (i.e. var/log/syslog) - adding a line like your suggestion won't make any nonexisting logger output appear magically | 19:21 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: so how do I make a new logger output for hildon-desktop? | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | you need to check source or docs of HD to find how to enable logging | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | quite likely syslog.conf isn't involved | 19:23 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: well, HD simply uses g_debug to print stuff. I simply would like to have a way to see what it is printing | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | as it is just for distributing input from logger() calls to different destinations | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry I have nfc bout g_debug | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if it's using logger() then the output should show up in syslog | 19:25 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: well the problem is, me neither. Stskeeps suggested syslogd for it | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if it's using XprintX() then odds are this will stow up on stdout/stderr | 19:26 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: well, I guess it does | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | plus I'd expect g_debug is conditional depending on some flag or env var or gconf key or whatever | 19:27 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: do you know how to read that? | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | stdout/err? | 19:28 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: yes | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | start hildon esktop from a console/xterm and you'll see the prints there | 19:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or do a 'hildonfdesktop | logger' in the startup script | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | to pipe stdout to logger to syslog | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry but without looking at it all I can tell is mere handwaving | 19:30 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: no problem, I'm glad you have an idea | 19:31 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: I guess I can't simply start it from console | 19:32 |
| * pahartik wonders about whether "systemui" can be killed (for restart) without whole system going down | 19:32 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | afaik it's started from dsme, so killing it will restart | 19:32 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: hm, easier than I thought... it is started with Upstart | 19:34 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: okay, I'll be afk for some time... brb | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you need to grep /etc for hildon-sektop, and find+fix the place where it's sttarted | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep, upstart. but probably by dsmetool | 19:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: /etc/X11/Xsession.post/20hildon-desktop:/usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t /usr/bin/hildon-desktop | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | plus another few | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | locations | 19:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q=g_debug+output+of+Hildon-Desktop&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 first hit: >>...log_ignore_debug_handler, main): Disable g_debug output by default. ...<< | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-home/commit/9640011ce829013da531f2a7d04bc53a3cf02c17 | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | It can be enabled via --enable-debug. Fixes: NB#103304 | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: HTH | 20:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, that's src/hildon-home.c though | 20:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | what's the best video container? | 20:05 |
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| MohammadAG51 | I want to output a movie from a project, youtube doesn't support ogv apparently | 20:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: was that you who claimed "anything using glib is broken by design" ? I tend to agree | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | anything using gobject, for sure.. | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:15 |
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| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: could be, though I doubt those exact words | 20:18 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: re | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I dug into glib until I found def of g_debug macro (it's g_log), and it seems it's actually printing unconditionally to stdout aiui | 20:21 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I changed the script to '/usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t '/usr/bin/hildon-desktop | logger'' | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | does it work at all? | 20:22 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what do you mean? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | does it start HD, and does some logs show up in syslog? | 20:23 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: after issuing 'killall hildon-desktop', it is restarted automatically... but I still don't see any logs | 20:23 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: that syslog.conf line I talked about earlier is also there | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | killall won't help as this is handled inside dsme | 20:24 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: reboot? | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to reboot or at least restart the service to put your changes to effect | 20:24 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: it is not possible to restart the service | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suggest you add a "-t MyTag" to logger | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I found out as much, yes :-D | 20:25 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :) | 20:25 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what does that do? | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | -t tag Mark every line in the log with the specified tag. | 20:25 |
| Venemo | is this okay? /usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t '/usr/bin/hildon-desktop | logger -t mytag' | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | if dsmetool knows how to handle such shell style parameters | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | for -t | 20:26 |
| Venemo | hm, is there a chance it doesn't? | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I asked if it works at all | 20:27 |
| Venemo | how can I check if it does? | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise you'd probably need a script doing the real cmd, and just invoke that script from dsmetool, without any parameters etc | 20:27 |
| Venemo | okay, but how can I check whether it works or not? | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, got no better idea than try&error | 20:29 |
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| Venemo | k | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | replace the command string by "date|logger" :-P | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or 'echo foobarboo | logger' | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously this won't launch HD :-D | 20:30 |
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| Venemo | ouch | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | but will show if it works - BEWARE, dsme might bootloop as that cmd sequence quitsvery fast | 20:31 |
| Venemo | this: /usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t 'echo blahblah | logger' made my device reboot...' | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | check dsmetool --help | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | change -t to something less aggressive | 20:32 |
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| Venemo | but the device booted anyways, so I guess it could handle it | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | it might as well pass ' | logger -t mytag' to hildon-desktop as argv[1] | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem is "|" is a shell verb | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | exec?e probably won't know how to handle it | 20:34 |
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| Venemo | I left that command in the script before the reboot... and since it actually booted, I guess it worked | 20:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so the solutions probably is -t '/bin/sh -c \'/usr/bin/hildon-desktop | logger -t mytag\'' | 20:36 |
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| Venemo | hm, there is still no logs from HD | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, because the pipe wasn't handled by dsme like it would've been by a shell | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | My uneducated guess | 20:37 |
| Venemo | hm | 20:38 |
| Venemo | there is bunch of other logs that appeared now, btw... | 20:38 |
| Venemo | hm | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | use ">/path/to/MyLogfile" instead of " | logger" | 20:38 |
| Venemo | k | 20:39 |
| Venemo | will do | 20:39 |
| Venemo | does this look okay? /usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t '/usr/bin/hildon-desktop > /var/log/hildon.log' | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | should - but after all we should make sure we're hammering the right line at all, so just commenting it out will show if it's the line startiing hildon-desktop | 20:44 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: this didn't work either... :( | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then, why use dsmetool at all, kick it out as you don't bother about auto-respawning of hildon-desktop | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | just replace it by a simple "/usr/bin/hildon-desktop > /var/log/hildon.log" line | 20:46 |
| Venemo | without the dsmetool? | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 20:46 |
| Venemo | isn't it dangerous? | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | dsmetool is just restarting the HD process whenever you do a killall, and eventually even may reboot | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, not really dangerous | 20:47 |
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| Venemo | okay, trying | 20:47 |
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| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: what's wrong with glib? | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it starts with a 'g' | 20:48 |
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| slonopotamus | so? | 20:49 |
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| slonopotamus | gcc also starts with g | 20:49 |
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| Venemo | hm | 20:50 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: the log file is still empty | 20:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, but it got created? | 20:50 |
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| Venemo | I created it by hand | 20:51 |
| Venemo | shouldn't I have done that? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you don't know if your line got correctly executed otherwise | 20:52 |
| Venemo | are you sure this is the line where hildon-desktop is started? | 20:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | no, I mentioned abov we should check this first | 20:54 |
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| Venemo | hmm | 20:55 |
| Venemo | well, it no longer respawns after a killall | 20:55 |
| Venemo | so this is gotta be it | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yup | 20:56 |
| Venemo | the UI looks... interesting :D | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | redirect stderr too | 20:56 |
| Venemo | how can I do that? | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | then check hildon-desktop how to enable debug output. odds are it's somehow disabled | 20:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or simply killall hildon-desktop, then restart it from a ssh session | 20:58 |
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| Venemo | hmm... :) good idea | 20:58 |
| SpeedEvil | hildon-desktop is open-source IIRC | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 20:58 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil: we know | 20:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Fair enough. | 20:59 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil: I found some g_debug() calls in its source code | 20:59 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil: but I'd like to see those debug lines in runtime | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but I got no idea what, when, and how it is logging for g_debug | 20:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | s/how/where to | 21:01 |
| Venemo | I started hildon-desktop in an SSH session | 21:01 |
| Venemo | I see some errors, but not the messages I'd like to see | 21:02 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: --enable-debug doesn't do any good either | 21:02 |
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| Venemo | but from the errors that appear, I think I finally found something really interesting | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes, hildon-desktop seems has no --enable-debug option | 21:04 |
| Venemo | luke-jr: can you confirm this? | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's hildon-home | 21:04 |
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| Venemo | yeah | 21:05 |
| dneary | Hrmmm | 21:06 |
| dneary | Anyone here know what each of the fields in a .desktop file means? | 21:06 |
| Venemo | dneary: there is some doc in the wiki about it | 21:06 |
| dneary | Venemo, Not great, though | 21:06 |
| Venemo | dneary: in specific, which field are you interested in? | 21:06 |
| dneary | If you're a first time developer, you get to the Packaging page | 21:07 |
| dneary | Then Packaging/Guidelines | 21:07 |
| dneary | Venemo, I don't know what I want - I just know I want to have my app install properly in the application menu | 21:07 |
| dneary | Venemo, I'm on [[Packaging#Maemo-specific packaging information]] in the wiki | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, version is NOT the app's version. At least so much for now :-) | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's the .desktop file syntax version | 21:09 |
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| Venemo | dneary: here is a working example: http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/sticky-notes/sticky-notes/data/sticky-notes.desktop | 21:09 |
| dneary | Venemo, I have created a hello.install file in debian/ which contains: | 21:09 |
| dneary | hello.desktop usr/share/applications/hildon | 21:09 |
| dneary | Venemo, And I've added an XB-Maemo-Icon-26 field to debian/control with a uuencoded logo | 21:09 |
| Venemo | dneary: what's the issue? | 21:10 |
| dneary | Venemo: The icon | 21:10 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: what resolution/dimensions are you using for your icon? | 21:10 |
| dneary | Do I need to package up a png (and how do I get it to install in the right place) or is the XB-Maemo-Icon field sufficient? | 21:10 |
| timeless_mbp | the icon on n8x0 was 26x26, but the icon for the n900 isn't that dimension | 21:10 |
| timeless_mbp | the xb-maemo-icon is for display an HAM | 21:11 |
| timeless_mbp | s/an/in/ | 21:11 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: the xb-maemo-icon is for display in HAM | 21:11 |
| timeless_mbp | you need something in your .desktop for the icon that appears in the launcher | 21:11 |
| dneary | I'm assuming I need to package it up, install it in the right place, and include a filename root in the Icon: field of the .desktop file | 21:11 |
| dneary | But the docs in the Packaging wiki page aren't really clear on that | 21:11 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: generally the best approach is to look at someone else's package :) | 21:12 |
| Venemo | dneary: the icon in the app menu or the icon in the app mnager? | 21:12 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp, This is why I'm going through the getting started docs :) | 21:12 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp, Let's see if we can't make the docs better | 21:12 |
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| dneary | Venemo, I would like a hello, world application with an icon in the applications menu | 21:12 |
| timeless_mbp | /usr/share/icons/hicolor/{48x48,scalable,32x32}/hildon/fmms.png | 21:13 |
| Venemo | dneary: /usr/share/pixmaps did the trick for me | 21:13 |
| timeless_mbp | Icon=fmms | 21:13 |
| dneary | Venemo, I'm not (at this point) concerned about the application manager (because for the moment I'm still testing my app locally & haven't looked into extras-devel) | 21:13 |
| timeless_mbp | that's all fmms uses | 21:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and it works | 21:13 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp, Presumably I need to do something to Makefile.am to install the DATA files correctly? | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: um, Makefile.am is a build issue | 21:14 |
| Venemo | dneary: for Sticky Notes, I put the icon into /usr/share/pixmaps... and it also works for the app menu :) | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | I don't use automake :) | 21:14 |
| dneary | Or is it in debian/hello.install? | 21:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | hello.install should work | 21:14 |
| dneary | Venemo, How do you do that? | 21:14 |
| dneary | (put the icon in /usr/share/pixmaps) | 21:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | dneary: the .install file is the key here | 21:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | it just needs a valid path to where the file is in your build tree | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | and a path to where oyu want it to go | 21:15 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp, As an autotools guy, I can't help but wonder whether Makefile.am is not a better solution | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. hello.png /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: *shrug* | 21:16 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp, Will that line in the install get through dh_buildpackage? | 21:16 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 21:16 | |
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| * timeless_mbp uses dpkg or something | 21:16 | |
| timeless_mbp | probably not | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary: http://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/anatomy-of-a-desktop-file/ | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | man dh_buildpackage? :) | 21:16 |
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| dneary | timeless_mbp, Another thing I'm not clear on | 21:17 |
| Venemo | dneary: I PM'd you | 21:17 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: at this point he has issues more w/ dh_* than w/ .desktop | 21:17 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: it's dinner time. | 21:17 |
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| dneary | Is it always "application.install" or did I correctly interpret that to mean "s/application/your packagename"? | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless: sorry, I'm ust so fast with digging up proper replies | 21:18 |
| dneary | The filename, that is? | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary: yes, the file can have basically arbitrary name | 21:18 |
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| dneary | OK - let's see... | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | as long as HAM is concerned, and HFM | 21:19 |
| dneary | I copied (48x48 PNG) hello.png into the source directory, ran dpkg-buildpackage | 21:19 |
| dneary | And get a fatal error in dpkg-source: "cannot represent change to hello.png: binary file contents have changed" | 21:20 |
| dneary | I don't understand what this means | 21:20 |
| dneary | Should I make distclean & try again? | 21:20 |
| Venemo | dneary: do you have an SVN client? | 21:20 |
| Venemo | dneary: if you do, checkout a working app, and see how it does this | 21:21 |
| dneary | Venemo, Yes, but this is a local from-scratch package (just to test the docs) | 21:21 |
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| dneary | Ah - I see what you are getting at | 21:21 |
| Venemo | dneary: the docs are crap | 21:21 |
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| dneary | ahem | 21:22 |
| dneary | That's what I'm here for :) | 21:22 |
| Venemo | :) | 21:22 |
| dneary | I had fixed the docs up to "making your first .deb" | 21:22 |
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| Venemo | seems that noone has cared to review it in a long time :) | 21:22 |
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| dneary | now I want to get them better up to "getting your app onto extras-testing" | 21:22 |
| dneary | OK - I'll work on this tomorrow (and actually improving the docs). | 21:23 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:28 |
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| Myrtti | ohai | 21:30 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: thanks for your help :) | 21:30 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I didn't manage to find out how to enable debug output, but from the few error messages I saw, I was able to determine what the error was :) | 21:31 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: so again, thank you very-very much :) | 21:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yw | 21:32 |
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| RST38h | https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_tk25s2F-keM/TLX-I539_2I/AAAAAAAAAA8/gsoa6SypFNg/h120/C:%5Cfakepath%5Cmonkey.png | 21:49 |
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| RST38h | Nokia Launchpad is now free to join | 21:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 21:57 |
| BCMM | RST38h: and what is it? | 21:59 |
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| Goliath23 | hi | 22:07 |
| Goliath23 | I wrote a homescreenwidget using harald fernengels adaptor. now when I show the settings dialog, all "mousePressEvents" to the settingsdialog (QDialog) are eaten by underlying homescreenwidgets (no matter if they are mine or others) .. as long as there's no homescreen widget beneath the location I tap, everything is fine | 22:08 |
| * pahartik found out that "killall -HUP systemui" solves "unlock delay" issue without shutdown | 22:08 | |
| Goliath23 | for the n900 that is ^ | 22:08 |
| Venemo | Goliath23: interesting issue | 22:09 |
| Venemo | Goliath23: ask this on #qt-maemo | 22:09 |
| Goliath23 | Venemo: ah, didn't know that channel! see you there :) | 22:10 |
| Venemo | Goliath23: k :) | 22:10 |
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| Argo | Hello all. I have been having a problem with Pidgin 2.7.3 for maemo4 and I was wondering if someone could help me? | 22:16 |
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| nox- | moin | 22:42 |
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| toggles | qZq! | 22:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ?@?¿ | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi? | 22:55 |
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| toggles | not funny Doc. | 22:58 |
| toggles | yes.. trying to get the damn sdk installed... wtf happened to it? code rot? | 22:58 |
| mcunix | where I download ubuntu mobile 9.04? | 22:59 |
| slonopotamus | vi has two modes, in one it beeps and in second one it corrupts everything | 22:59 |
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| toggles | MohammadAG: thanks.. http://www.nokiausers.net/forum/nokia-n900/31920-howto-get-linux-maemo-sdk-w-emulator-running-3.html#post275834 | 23:03 |
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| BCMM | slonopotamus: ah, but i take a perverse pleasure in using things that confuse other people | 23:08 |
| BCMM | for example, on my desktop, every screen corner is rigged to do something confusing | 23:08 |
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| mgedmin | heh | 23:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I found my usual things are more than confusing to exactly everybody, so no need to take special care | 23:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | if that's not enough, I start telling about my moods | 23:29 |
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| * slonopotamus removed taskbar from his desktop completely and uses hotkeys to switch between apps. veeery confusing for other people :) | 23:30 | |
| slonopotamus | s/for/to/ | 23:31 |
| * joga never had a taskbar to begin with | 23:31 | |
| mgedmin | I replaced my taskbar (gnome-panel) with docky, now I'm confused myself | 23:31 |
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| slonopotamus | joga: almost all DEs have it in default configuration | 23:31 |
| mgedmin | I end up with many xterm windows in a workspace, since I don't see the ones I'd already opened | 23:31 |
| joga | slonopotamus, I don't have a DE :) | 23:32 |
| slonopotamus | joga: consolier? | 23:32 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 23:32 |
| slonopotamus | text mode forever? | 23:32 |
| slonopotamus | porn via libcaca and other fancy stuff :) | 23:33 |
| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: .browser could be interesting | 23:33 |
| joga | slonopotamus, I do have a window manager but do everything except browsing from command line | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: there's a bugs.maemo.org bug, you could ask directly :) | 23:33 |
| joga | or, everything sensible | 23:33 |
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| slonopotamus | err... http://caca.zoy.org/ second thingie from the right is a pile of shit? | 23:35 |
| slonopotamus | left to the bomb | 23:35 |
| sp3000 | and right of the pee and friends, yes | 23:37 |
| sp3000 | at some point you may notice a theme there | 23:38 |
| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: well it can't be respui=false, that doesn't really draw pages | 23:38 |
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| malloc64 | Does anyone know where to find the desktop SDK virtual image? | 23:47 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, hey | 23:53 |
| malloc64 | who, me? | 23:54 |
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