| sqwable | <-- noob :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| sqwable | be gentle | 00:00 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr_, the way I understood him was that he has the dependency, but it's not compiling cause it can't see it installed | 00:00 |
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| sqwable | I'm using the maemo sdk virtual machine, compiled the new libfakekey and I'm trying to get matchbox-keyboard compile | 00:01 |
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| sqwable | it says I need to install libfakekey from svn | 00:02 |
| sqwable | I'll just try copying out the file into /scratchbox/usr/lib and see if matchbox-keyboard will compile :) | 00:02 |
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| sqwable | file(s) | 00:02 |
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| MohammadAG | make install it? | 00:03 |
| tobis87 | for compiling, you will need the header.h files, not the lib*.so files | 00:03 |
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| tobis87 | and the *.la *.a files. | 00:06 |
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| sqwable | and what do I do with them? | 00:07 |
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| tobis87 | well, you need them in a path, where they can be found if the other program has to get linked against this library. But I have never copied them manuelly, You should try to install the lib with make install, check that you have set the proper prefix= for ./configure | 00:11 |
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| RST38h | Ahhahahhaa: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/2010-10-11186wp7launch.jpg | 00:22 |
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| haltdef | going backwards with wm7 | 00:23 |
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| johnsq | multitasking 2012 | 00:23 |
| haltdef | wm6.5 just needed to be a bit snappier and more stable, better UI | 00:24 |
| haltdef | job done | 00:24 |
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| RST38h | Am I the onlyone finding those plain blue squares with stuff in them ugly? | 00:25 |
| wmarone | nope | 00:26 |
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| tobis87 | Someone already got Windows NT running on the N900, but this would be good for a laugh as well: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&ie=UTF8&langpair=auto|en&u=http://www.winhistory.de/more/wfp.htm | 00:34 |
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| pupnik | Diane: Ever since I was a child, I've wanted to dance.... so badly. | 00:39 |
| pupnik | Norm: Looks like you got your wish. | 00:39 |
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| GAN900 | pupnik, are you watching /Cheers/? | 00:43 |
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| pupnik | yes GAN900 | 00:51 |
| pupnik | ran many years didn't it | 00:53 |
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| GAN900 | pupnik, yes. | 01:10 |
| GAN900 | pupnik, likely you'll also enjoy Frasier. | 01:10 |
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| kerio | frasier is great | 01:14 |
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| GAN900 | Best spinoff ever. | 01:21 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders. | 01:27 | |
| SpeedEvil | I'm going with Mirror universe Voyager, if that counts. | 01:27 |
| * SpeedEvil dreams of Empress Hoshi. | 01:27 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: jacekowski: https://elektranox.org/n900/images/wireshark/04.png | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | https://elektranox.org/n900/libisi/index.html | 01:35 |
| kerio | bad ca | 01:35 |
| kerio | i'm not going there! | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: ^^^ | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: empress Hoshi :-D yay! | 01:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though Hoshi wasn't Voyager crew, it's been Enterprise NX-01 | 01:38 |
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| jacekowski | hoshi is from enterprise | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Interesting | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | eys | 01:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | oops | 01:42 |
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| jacekowski | hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | There wasn't a mirror voyager - other than the mimetic one. | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 01:42 |
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| pupnik | where'd you meed hoshi jacekowski ... i haven't seen that name in years | 01:55 |
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| jaska | haha, i would have hit my head on the wall infinitely unless i had seen that ldconfig or someone had linked libvte.so.9 to libvte.so.9.2.18.backup instead of the modified libvte.so.9.2.18 | 02:15 |
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| yacc | Anyone got an idea how to make the USB networking visible to maemo? Basically how do I fake that the device is "online" although it's not online via gprs0 nor wlan0? | 02:27 |
| yacc | libicd-network-dummy from Fremantle Nokia-binaries repository or better libicd-network-null <= both packages as described on http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking do not exist :( | 02:28 |
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| yacc | Anyone got an idea how to programmatically from a script to change the hildon/Maemo connection? | 02:49 |
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| na5uta-work | hello. two n00b-questions: is there a special channel for n900-user and exist a german channel? | 02:58 |
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| yacc | na5uta-work, this is the N900 channel, considering that there is exactly one current Maemo (current == version 5) device, the N900. | 03:10 |
| yacc | na5uta-work, German channel, not really, #maemo.de has exactly one user + ChanServ. | 03:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not teh n900 channel | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | It's the maemo channel - there are a number of people with n810, 800, 770 | 03:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | mhm, really 15 users in #n900 | 03:24 |
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| DangerMaus | heh | 03:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yacc: (how to make the USB networking visible) check PC Connectivity Manager package for Diablo. I'd think it might have what you are looking for - maybe even the fremantle pkg works | 03:35 |
| yacc | Well, I managed, I misread devel for testing, enabling devel found the package. | 03:35 |
| yacc | Still it would be really cool if one could add a command to pcsuite-enable.sh so that the connection get's switched to "Dummy" without manual interaction. | 03:36 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yacc: I use usb networking in the n900 a lot, and if the connection is up you see the usb icon, but wifi and gprs will take precedence | 03:36 |
| yacc | Actually, switching Dual/2G/3G from cmdline would be useful too, switching to 2G the moment USB is plugged in, .. | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, pcsuite-enable.sh does exactly the opposite, so quite likely isn't what you want | 03:37 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, yeah, but I want usb0 to be the default route, ... | 03:37 |
| jpinx-eeepc | mine is | 03:37 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer well the recommendation in the wiki page is to add ifup usb0 to pcsuite-enable, and it works fine. | 03:38 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yacc: sort out you routing and network interfaces | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmpf | 03:38 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, routing is not my problem. | 03:38 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yacc: what exactly is the problem? | 03:39 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, my problem are modern Linux apps, e.g. Maemo apps, that use dbus or other modern foobar to detect online/offline state, and they do not even try a connect() call when offline, ... | 03:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PC suite mode is for tethering N900 modem to PC (among other purposes) - so how could it be sane to add PC as N900 default route? | 03:39 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, happens the same on Gnome/KDE desktops nowaday, if you have NetworkManager in operation, and connect say with a 3rd party tool like wvdial say via UMTS to the Internet. | 03:39 |
| yacc | For kmail, evolution, firefox and friends you are offline despite the fact that ping www.google.com works in a xterm. | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I recommend you check PC Connectivity pkg | 03:40 |
| * jpinx-eeepc still doesn't get the problem - | 03:40 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | yacc: I plug in the usb to my laptop and it just connects - no issues | 03:41 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yacc: I can use the laptop wifi, or the n900 wifi or gprs or whatever | 03:41 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Well, technically it makes sense, in a very sick way. I can easily provide an uplink via UMTS modem dialin via the N900 if the PC is the default gateway of the N900. The other way works only if the N900 is meant to be the uplink. | 03:42 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, yeah, but I want to use it the other way. | 03:42 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | works both ways for me | 03:42 |
| jpinx-eeepc | use the n900 as internet connection for the laptop or vice-versa | 03:42 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, not really, because the N900 prefers the UMTS/WLAN route for anything beside the local network. | 03:43 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, if you have no GPRS/WLAN connection, the N900 GUI apps won't believe they are online, ... | 03:43 |
| jpinx-eeepc | prefers ? | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.org/packages/view/pc-connectivity-manager/ | 03:43 |
| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, yeah, it still has the default route via gprs0 (or wlan0) | 03:44 |
| jpinx-eeepc | ah - yea - gotcha now - they do - just give it time | 03:44 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it sees to have to think about searching for another connection | 03:44 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: does that need a reboot? | 03:44 |
| yacc | Anyway, bb in half an hour or so, the dog wants to stretch it's legs, so to say, ... | 03:45 |
| jpinx-eeepc | making application manager connect through the usb to the laptop wifi was sloooooow | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, probably. It's a settings menu | 03:45 |
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| yacc | jpinx-eeepc, well, in my case it makes x11vnc quite a bit faster than WLAN, and the desktop PC has 100mbit Internet connectivity, ... | 03:45 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yacc: sure, once the n900 has decided to se the usb - it's fine | 03:46 |
| jpinx-eeepc | but getting the n900 to use the usb for native gui apps is - for some reason - really slow | 03:46 |
| DangerMaus | wow i got the phone plugged to the tv (cabels out) and the sound is great | 03:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=542298#post542298 <--PC-Connectivity manager | 03:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | DangerMaus: sure, why shouldn't sound be great? The only problem is the picture quality basically sucks | 03:49 |
| DangerMaus | yep | 03:50 |
| * DangerMaus just wooried about the speakers | 03:50 | |
| DangerMaus | the next one needs to putput 1080 | 03:51 |
| DangerMaus | output | 03:51 |
| DangerMaus | though prob onlly get 720 | 03:52 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: good link - all the issues are covered there - loss of wifi after unplugging usb being a real pita | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess when WiFi ceases working it's probably fixable by removing and modprobing the wlan module. Or simply by using "flight mode" or any other method to "powercycle" the wlan chip | 04:15 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 06:54 |
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| * TiagoTiago hears crickets | 07:01 | |
| johnx | crickets hear TiagoTiago | 07:02 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 07:03 |
| johnx | oh, it's no laughing matter. they'll wait until you're not paying attention, then ... *WHAM* they've got ya | 07:04 |
| TiagoTiago | i see | 07:04 |
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| TiagoTiago | Are the N900 speakers, with the default mixer, capable of prducing the (in)famous "Moskito tone" ? | 07:20 |
| TiagoTiago | or is it "Mosquito"? | 07:21 |
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| wmarone | Mosquito | 07:22 |
| TiagoTiago | ok | 07:22 |
| ech0Asus | hey all | 07:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 07:28 |
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| TiagoTiago | Why with X-Chat i see all the join/quit msgs but with Chatzilla i don't? | 07:35 |
| wmarone | because xchat is a real IRC client | 07:38 |
| TiagoTiago | but isn't the channel set to "conference mode", that is supposed to silence those msgs? | 07:39 |
| MohammadAG51 | no, use /ignore to filer them out | 07:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | but why i do see those msgs in Chatzilla in other channels? | 07:42 |
| TiagoTiago | oh | 07:45 |
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| TiagoTiago | ok, i've googled "conference mode" and that is actually a feature in Chatzill, it automaticly kicks in in channels with more than N people in it, the default for N being 150 | 07:46 |
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| TiagoTiago | never noticed it saying anything about it being a Cz feature, i always assumed that was a regular option in IRC servers.... | 07:48 |
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| johnx | TiagoTiago, it's an option for IRC clients. you can probably turn off the messages in xchat if you want | 07:50 |
| TiagoTiago | nah, itms alright, i like seeing those msgs, i'll disable that on my Cz later | 07:51 |
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| TiagoTiago | i asked because i had assumed it was an IRC server functionality and i was trying to understand why different clients reacted diffwrently to it | 07:52 |
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| RST38h | heya johnx | 08:09 |
| johnx | m00f RST38h | 08:10 |
| TiagoTiago | ~conference mode | 08:11 |
| TiagoTiago | balls :/ | 08:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | i think i'll go sleep, cya | 08:44 |
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| bef0rd | ck z | 10:09 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 10:58 |
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| RST38h | Mourning stskeep | 10:59 |
| RST38h | s | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | indeed | 10:59 |
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| vdv | i've problem with keyboard remapping on my n900, i just don't understand how Fn+Left can be bound to Escape if it's already is used as "Up"? | 11:00 |
| vdv | i.e. in factory default Fn+Left is Arrow Up for me | 11:00 |
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| vdv | now i've changed rx-51 to remap Fn+Left to Escape, but it still produces Arrow Up | 11:01 |
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| vdv | ah, i just have a keyboard with only two physically arrow keys | 11:02 |
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| vltR | t.m.o dead? | 11:10 |
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| johnx | vltR, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/talk.maemo.org | 11:20 |
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| PontusOhman | Anyone knows which file to edit to remove the darn BusyBox message?! Is it the /etc/motd file or not? | 11:49 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG51: any chance of a patch for custom keyboard shortcuts? I'll do it if you think it's worth it. | 11:51 |
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| ilius | how to became root inside scratchbox? | 12:09 |
| ilius | [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > sudo apt-get install xserver-xephyr | 12:09 |
| ilius | sudo: must be setuid root | 12:09 |
| ieatlint | fakeroot | 12:10 |
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| ieatlint | haven't used scratchbox in a few weeks, but "fakeroot apt-get ..." as i recall | 12:10 |
| ilius | ieatlint: thanks | 12:11 |
| pupnik_ | thank you ubuntu for making 'sudo' an easy way to identify linux n00bs on job applications | 12:12 |
| ieatlint | pupnik_: how's that? | 12:12 |
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| TermanaN900 | ieatlint, you should never need sudo | 12:13 |
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| TermanaN900 | only pussies log in as anything but root | 12:13 |
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| TermanaN900 | :p | 12:14 |
| ieatlint | :P | 12:14 |
| ieatlint | i've got probably 4 terminals open to root on my local machine right now, so i totally agree | 12:14 |
| BCMM | ieatlint: real ones? | 12:14 |
| BCMM | or screen? | 12:14 |
| BCMM | also, do you guys run your IRC clients as root? | 12:15 |
| ieatlint | ptty i guess... not based on login | 12:15 |
| ieatlint | and no, i'm not an idiot | 12:15 |
| ieatlint | i don't run chat programs, browsers, etc as root | 12:15 |
| pupnik | ieatlint: it's not useless, but "sudo" wasn't in use by anyone when i learned unix and later linux. It's not a canonical linux command. | 12:16 |
| pupnik | HAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 12:16 |
| pupnik | get it? | 12:16 |
| ieatlint | that's the worst pun i've heard in hours :P | 12:16 |
| pupnik | :) | 12:16 |
| ieatlint | and yeah, sudo was not in popular use when i learnt linux, and i'm still far more likely to use a root shell than sudo, heh | 12:16 |
| TermanaN900 | pupnik, ha. | 12:17 |
| pupnik | there's more than one way to do it | 12:17 |
| johnx | BCMM, real, physical VT102s :) | 12:18 |
| BCMM | hah | 12:18 |
| BCMM | yeah, i suppose the linux console isn't a real terminal either | 12:18 |
| ieatlint | i was recently told that an interesting way to test someone's competency is to give them a root console on a box with no internet access, type "chmod -x /bin/chmod" and tell them to fix it | 12:18 |
| johnx | sorry about the slow response, the other VT is busy, so I'm stuck on the line printer :/ | 12:19 |
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| * johnx promptly breaks chmod | 12:19 | |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: with gcc it's easy | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:19 |
| BCMM | ieatlint: well, it's a terrible solution, but off the top of my head, you could cp chmod to a filesystem where everything was executable | 12:19 |
| Myrtti | I guess I'm a noob then... oh well. | 12:20 |
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| ieatlint | there are a LOT of solutions... which is kind of the point | 12:20 |
| ieatlint | Stskeeps: and do you mean by just writing your own chmod? | 12:20 |
| pupnik | i'd remount with a different mask | 12:20 |
| pupnik | i think | 12:21 |
| ieatlint | using sys/stat.h chmod().. | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: right | 12:21 |
| BCMM | johnx: that's a great image, now i'm sure that ieatlint has at least five VT100s, arranged on a curved desk | 12:21 |
| TermanaN900 | ieatlint, you couldn't write your own, how are you going to make it executable without chmod? | 12:21 |
| ieatlint | pupnik: the the idea is also not to fuck up other things on the system... remounting with executable permissions is not ideal | 12:21 |
| johnx | BCMM, and he slides his 60's rolly chair between them, clacking away on the keyboards | 12:21 |
| ieatlint | TermanaN900: gcc outputs programs with +x already | 12:21 |
| vis | huh, vt100, that is some luxus hardware. i only have vt52 | 12:21 |
| TermanaN900 | ieatlint, ah | 12:22 |
| pupnik | nice question ieatlint | 12:22 |
| ieatlint | my solution was this: "cp /bin/ls ~/blah; cat /bin/chmod > ~/blah; blah +x /bin/chmod" | 12:22 |
| TermanaN900 | personally if it was just my personal box I'd just reboot into a live system, mount the file system and fix it | 12:22 |
| TermanaN900 | :p but I guess that's not what would be looked for | 12:22 |
| ieatlint | but yes, you can write a replacement to chmod in c, python, php, or many other languages | 12:22 |
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| BCMM | ieatlint: oh, that seems kinda obvious now... | 12:23 |
| johnx | seriously, you guys need to do more packaging ;) | 12:23 |
| johnx | don't you have install? | 12:23 |
| johnx | install -m 755 ./chmod ./chmod-foo | 12:23 |
| ieatlint | TermanaN900: well, i bastardised explaining the situation... the idea is that you had to do this on a production machine that can't go down, etc | 12:23 |
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| TermanaN900 | ieatlint, right :p which is why i said my own personal machine and "this isn't the solution that would be looked for" ;) | 12:24 |
| ieatlint | pupnik: but yeah, i've never been asked the question in an interview, but it's supposed to be one that lets people actually think and come up with creative solutions | 12:24 |
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| ieatlint | apparently there are an insane number of solutions... | 12:27 |
| pupnik | argh ieatlint - nice one | 12:27 |
| johnx | I bet | 12:27 |
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| johnx | though ... reinstalling the package comes to mind :) | 12:27 |
| johnx | If I was interviewing someone and the qualifier was 'on a production system' I think I'd be happy to hear that 'non-creative' answer ;) | 12:28 |
| BCMM | ieatlint: well yeah, there are also a load of file managers that let you modify permissions | 12:29 |
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| ieatlint | johnx: that assumes that they have it cached on the system | 12:29 |
| johnx | ieatlint, why? did inet access go away as well? | 12:30 |
| nidO | johnx that was the very first restriction | 12:30 |
| * johnx sheepishly scrolls back to re-read ... | 12:30 | |
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| ieatlint | eh, the scenario is that you can't go online... it's a very hypothetical question, not a real world scenario :P | 12:30 |
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| johnx | for sure :) I just didn't read carefully | 12:31 |
| ieatlint | this is also one of the most sane answers i've seen, and i was completely unfamiliar with it... just run "/lib/ld-2.11.2.so /bin/chmod +x /bin/chmod" | 12:31 |
| ieatlint | (adjusting the ld version, etc) | 12:31 |
| TermanaN900 | how about this - fix the permissions on a machine after "chmod 4777 -R /" | 12:32 |
| johnx | I was thinking something like that should work | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | i thought that'd be ld-linux.so though | 12:32 |
| * TermanaN900 cackles | 12:32 | |
| ieatlint | TermanaN900: you're just fucked there | 12:32 |
| TermanaN900 | ieatlint, i know :p | 12:32 |
| ieatlint | it's not realistic to try and fix that :P | 12:32 |
| johnx | assuming your package manageing system is good, it's not *totally* impossible | 12:33 |
| johnx | lots of by-hand work though | 12:33 |
| TermanaN900 | johnx, do you do packaging for a distro or something? | 12:33 |
| TermanaN900 | :p | 12:33 |
| johnx | TermanaN900, I did mer for a while :) | 12:34 |
| johnx | then realized that running a distro, or even a fork of a distro, is *totally insane* | 12:34 |
| TermanaN900 | johnx, if I asked you how will the world end, you would start "well if you start up your package manager..." | 12:34 |
| TermanaN900 | :p | 12:34 |
| johnx | I believe in relying on my tools as much as possible so I can be maximally lazy | 12:35 |
| TermanaN900 | heh :p | 12:35 |
| ieatlint | that's a good policy :P | 12:35 |
| johnx | one of the virtues of a programmer (or sysadmin...) | 12:35 |
| ieatlint | someone who will spend 12 hours finding a way to automate something in a reliable and sane way instead of the 15min to do it by hand is going to win :P | 12:35 |
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| vdv | i want to swap Ctrl and Backspace key positions, is that a bad idea? | 12:36 |
| superchode | gents. have an e-mail question/problem. | 12:36 |
| superchode | does anyone get a 'not available on server' error when trying to access mail? | 12:36 |
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| vdv | backspace is under "common_keys" category and Ctrl under "modifiers" category | 12:37 |
| johnx | vdv, the keys aren't removable ;) | 12:37 |
| TermanaN900 | lol | 12:37 |
| vdv | johnx, not physically :) | 12:37 |
| vdv | but just mappings | 12:37 |
| superchode | i have two mail accounts set up on the N900... both access gmail accounts. one works perfectly, the other kicks out 'not available on server' errors a lot. | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | ieatlint: bah, busybox to the rescue XP | 12:37 |
| johnx | vdv, aaaah, got it. no problem. xmodmap is probably your friend unless it's not :) at the very least a reboot will fix anything you do with xmodmap | 12:37 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer2: another good solution :P | 12:37 |
| johnx | superchode, POP3 or IMAP? | 12:38 |
| superchode | IMAP | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | the FIRST good use for messybox I ever found :-P | 12:38 |
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| johnx | superchode, and other machines accessing that account don't have problems? | 12:38 |
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| superchode | no. i can log into gmail any time from a browser (n900 or PC) and access the mail account | 12:39 |
| TermanaN900 | DocScrutinizer, busybox!? That's a worse answer than recommending the slap chop / sham wow guy fix it :p | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | also there's been some elf-loader you could cal much the same way like a python interpreter or whatever | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | linldr chmod | 12:40 |
| vdv | johnx, you mean perhaps xkbcomp | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | if only I'd find the name | 12:40 |
| johnx | vdv, I don't think I meant that. :) but that might work as well | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | you probably also can cp, or ln, or whatever chmod and during that change to +x | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | mc probably megaeasy | 12:43 |
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| ieatlint | oh god, you just suggested mc? :P | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | YESSIR! | 12:44 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, install was what I used ;) | 12:44 |
| ieatlint | what are the odds any production machine has mc installed? hehe | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on sysop | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | mine has :-P | 12:44 |
| ieatlint | is this where you argue that a sysop that's going to remove execute permissions of chmod is the sysop who will have mc? :P | 12:45 |
| johnx | if you're on DocScrutinizer's machine you'll find a nice cozy mc. if you're on mine, you may find mc aliased to rm -rf $HOME | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: I argue a sysop that removes x from chmod needs to be removed from duty | 12:45 |
| ieatlint | isn't that what i just said? | 12:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw who said "production"? | 12:48 |
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| ieatlint | see, i ask one question and rile up the whole channel :) | 12:49 |
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| johnx | hmm, should be able to just hexedit the raw filesystem on disk :) | 12:49 |
| ieatlint | indeed, just pull up the inode and a calculator | 12:51 |
| ieatlint | just need to flip one bit | 12:51 |
| kerio | mc rules | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | (gdb) run | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Starting program: /root/x | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | /bin/bash: /root/x: Permission denied | 12:52 |
| kerio | what is x? | 12:52 |
| johnx | if you pass init=/foo/bar to linux, I wonder if it checks if bar is executable ... | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | a copy of chmod as it happens :-P | 12:52 |
| kerio | johnx: heh, rebooting to use chmod? | 12:53 |
| johnx | kerio, or do it in a vm/qemu/whatever is available | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: good point :-) | 12:53 |
| kerio | can't you just write a program that uses the chmod syscall? | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | (hexedit) | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, a python 10 liner for example | 12:54 |
| ieatlint | python 1 line :P | 12:54 |
| johnx | kerio, yup. but someone beat you to that answer :) your answer needs to be original | 12:54 |
| kerio | ieatlint: import os; os.system("/bin/chmod whatever")? | 12:55 |
| ieatlint | ok, so 2 lines.. :P | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahahahaaaaaaaaaa | 12:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | try it!!!! | 12:55 |
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| ieatlint | can also use tar | 12:55 |
| kerio | i thought chmod was a shell command :| | 12:55 |
| ieatlint | probably rsync | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 12:55 |
| TermanaN900 | kerio, that wouldn't work | 12:55 |
| TermanaN900 | (the two liner) | 12:56 |
| ieatlint | oh, i misread what kerio wrote... s/os.system/os.chmod/ | 12:56 |
| kerio | there's a os.chmod? | 12:56 |
| kerio | wtf | 12:56 |
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| ieatlint | err, actually "os.chmod( '/bin/chmod', 0755 )" | 12:56 |
| ieatlint | and yeah, chmod is a standard c function in sys/stat.h (man 2 chmod for docs) | 12:57 |
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| kerio | a sysadmin that does chmod a-x chmod is not going to have gcc or python installed | 12:58 |
| kerio | i mean, unless he's an idiot | 12:58 |
| ieatlint | python likely would be | 12:58 |
| kerio | ieatlint: not really | 12:59 |
| kerio | if we're talking about a really hardened box | 12:59 |
| ieatlint | ok, i stand by my solution :) | 12:59 |
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| BCMM | chmod is a standard c function and a program who's primary purpose is to call it | 13:00 |
| BCMM | like stat, and various other things | 13:00 |
| TermanaN900 | kerio, where was it ever required to be a hardened box? :p It just couldn't go online and couldn't go down. Expanding on the original requirements doesn't make sense. I hope you never interview me (:p) | 13:00 |
| kerio | i started reading at the mention of mc | 13:01 |
| kerio | i have no idea what's before that in the scrollback | 13:01 |
| ieatlint | TermanaN900: eh, the whole point of the question is to stir up creative thought/discussion | 13:01 |
| ieatlint | commenting that those solutions, while valid in principal, may not be workable on many systems is valid | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # cp `which chmod` x; halley:~ # cp `which date` y; halley:~ # ./y Tue Oct 12 11:59:27 CEST 2010 halley:~ # cat ./x >./y; halley:~ # ./y --help Usage: ./y [OPTION]... MODE[,MODE]... FILE... | 13:02 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: you're root | 13:02 |
| kerio | duh | 13:02 |
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| kerio | you're not going to have write access as a user to a partition without noexec | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | err sorry? was the task now to use chmod on chmod WITHOUT ROOT PRIV?? | 13:03 |
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| TermanaN900 | ieatlint, no not defy me! :P kidding | 13:03 |
| kerio | i have no idea what's the task :| | 13:03 |
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| TermanaN900 | do not* | 13:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hi all | 13:03 |
| Myrtti | have a cookie. | 13:03 |
| kerio | can i have a cookie | 13:04 |
| johnx | hallo RobbieThe1st | 13:04 |
| kerio | ??????????????????????????????????? | 13:04 |
| Myrtti | you can all have a cookie if you just move on ;-) | 13:04 |
| kerio | i read that as "RobbieTheist" | 13:04 |
| RobbieThe1st | :P | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, forgot to mention: halley:~ # ./x -bash: ./x: Permission denied | 13:04 |
| TermanaN900 | Myrtti, are you kidding? we have nothing better to do :p | 13:05 |
| ieatlint | Myrtti: telling geeks to move on is one of those truly hopeless requests.. | 13:05 |
| Myrtti | ieatlint: I know, but it doesn't hurt to try | 13:05 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: so do "./y 0755 ./x" :P | 13:05 |
| ieatlint | although at that point, you'd just end up with two executable local copies of chmod, ./x and ./y | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # ./y 0755 ./x | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # ./x | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ./x: missing operand | 13:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | ... Why are we copying chmod again? | 13:06 |
| ieatlint | lol | 13:06 |
| RobbieThe1st | Remember, even if "chmod" is missing, you can always just type "busybox chmod ..." | 13:06 |
| johnx | RobbieThe1st, we're just having fun tackling a hypothetical problem :) | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOT ON *ANY* OF MY MACHINES :-S | 13:07 |
| ieatlint | and busybox is a potential solution | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 13:07 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 13:07 |
| TermanaN900 | DocScrutinizer, just your N900 | 13:07 |
| ieatlint | i don't think busybox's chmod has any fewer features than the standard /bin/chmod | 13:07 |
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| johnx | RobbieThe1st, this is what started it: | 13:08 |
| johnx | <ieatlint> i was recently told that an interesting way to test someone's competency is to give them a root console on a box with no internet access, type "chmod -x /bin/chmod" and tell them to fix it | 13:08 |
| Myrtti | oh no, you're spreading it around... | 13:08 |
| RobbieThe1st | ieatlint: That's cause it -is- busybox chmod. Just symlinked | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: chmod a-x `which chmod` | 13:08 |
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| ieatlint | RobbieThe1st: uh, the n900 it is | 13:08 |
| johnx | Myrtti, it has good viral ability :) | 13:08 |
| ieatlint | haha, i made you all think | 13:09 |
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| TermanaN900 | RobbieThe1st, we're discussing generally, not on the N900. I doubt it would be a requirement for an N900 not to go down :p | 13:09 |
| Myrtti | huh? | 13:09 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Fair enough, | 13:09 |
| * Myrtti doesn't think of anything other than pinnk yarn | 13:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: | 13:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | So, what's the answer? I'm interested now? | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # file `which chmod` | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | /bin/chmod: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, stripped | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | a lot of answers | 13:10 |
| TermanaN900 | RobbieThe1st, the channel has come up with a lot of answers - check the log | 13:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | I joined after that, though...? | 13:10 |
| jacekowski | 42 | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I like my "cat `which chmod` >arbitrary executable | 13:11 |
| ieatlint | topic has a link to channel logs if you're bored enough to read it | 13:11 |
| TermanaN900 | RobbieThe1st, mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | 13:11 |
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| johnx | RobbieThe1st, the log is in the topic :) | 13:12 |
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| johnx | it's public | 13:12 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Yea, I'm lookin | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | the answer to use mc was discussed controversial | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 13:12 |
| ieatlint | hehe | 13:12 |
| ieatlint | try suggesting emacs next | 13:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 13:13 |
| johnx | some winners: cat /bin/chmod > file-with-exec-permissions. install -m 755 chmod chmod-foo. hexedit the fs on disk. use the chmod syscall from your language of choice | 13:13 |
| johnx | and /lib/ld-linux.so /bin/chmod +x /bin/chmod (that's IIRC) | 13:13 |
| johnx | still looking for original answers, that aren't just variations on a theme :) | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ld-linux!!!!! | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: thanks | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-10-12 11:39:26] <DocScrutinizer> also there's been some elf-loader you could cal much the same way like a python interpreter or whatever | 13:15 |
| BCMM | johnx: anything wrong with "use a file manager"? | 13:15 |
| TermanaN900 | johnx, you forgot busybox. DocScrutinizer has it installed on all his machines | 13:15 |
| BCMM | (needn't be graphical or anything) | 13:15 |
| TermanaN900 | :p | 13:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | :P | 13:15 |
| johnx | BCMM, it means you're uncreative, but practical :) | 13:15 |
| TermanaN900 | BCMM, like mc? | 13:15 |
| BCMM | TermanaN900: yeah, like mc | 13:15 |
| johnx | maybe that's what your interviewer is looking for... | 13:15 |
| * DocScrutinizer searching for the heavy boots with steel caps | 13:15 | |
| pupnik | A N810-sized phone/tablet could accomodate a 3000 mAh battery http://i.imgur.com/50MDa.jpg :/ | 13:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Heck, if you forget everything else, you could even go so far as to boot off an external system disk, and chmod from there. | 13:15 |
| BCMM | i like the "hexedit the partition" one, but's it's a really bad idea | 13:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | also, my own branded solution: php -r "chmod('./testfile',0777);" | 13:16 |
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| johnx | RobbieThe1st, I think it was decided that bringing the system down lost you 'points' | 13:16 |
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| TermanaN900 | lol | 13:17 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Yea, true enough. But better than nothing | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: an idea for *real* men! | 13:17 |
| johnx | BCMM, I've done that to reset a password before :) | 13:17 |
| BCMM | johnx: woah, what sort of password? | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: heh, me too | 13:17 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: no, real men use a magnitised needle | 13:17 |
| johnx | it was on an irix box, and I didn't have another irix-running machine. just a normal encrypted password in /etc/passwd | 13:18 |
| ieatlint | bah, that's more effort than needed to reset the password... just add "init=/bin/bash" to the kernel config line | 13:18 |
| BCMM | i have no idea about irix | 13:18 |
| ieatlint | unless grub is password protected.. then yeah, need a boot disk or similar :) | 13:18 |
| BCMM | ieatlint: that's what i was gonnn say, but i guess it doesn't apply to irix | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: and the smartasses even scratch the HDD like a vinyl record player :-P | 13:18 |
| johnx | BCMM, neither did I :) | 13:19 |
| ieatlint | yeah, i don't know irix at all | 13:19 |
| johnx | ieatlint, I know it uses the same type of encryption for passwd files that linux did in the same era ;) | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: the easiest way is to set userid of a good record in etc/shadow to 0 | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | good==known password | 13:20 |
| vdv | is modest now better than in older firmware? | 13:20 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, if you can't mount the fs, and can't escalate to root, the only safe move is to replace a string of n characters with a string of n characters | 13:20 |
| RobbieThe1st | Anyway guys, I've got a PyQT4 problem/question: I have a python script that creates a tasktray icon. I have a context menu, an an "launch application" option on it. I have that connected to a function which makes the GUI window I want. That all works fine | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply use john :-D | 13:20 |
| johnx | also, I didn't know *any* passwords on that box | 13:21 |
| BCMM | johnx: encryption, or hashing? | 13:21 |
| pupnik | and let me hot-swap them / cycling batteries as needed without reboot | 13:21 |
| RobbieThe1st | But, as soon as I click that option and open the window, the task-tray icon stops responding to right-clicks(No more context menu). | 13:21 |
| johnx | BCMM, you're probably right. that would be hashing | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: 0000 is a valid userID I guess | 13:21 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, try it on *your* irix 5.x box and tell me if it works :P | 13:21 |
| ilius | what repo i add inside scatchbox (ubuntu) to install libsigc++ | 13:22 |
| johnx | anyways, I already said I didn't know *any* passwords on it | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: though given the plain text format of shadow I guess " 0" for "4711" will also work | 13:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | will an indigo do? | 13:23 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, go for it. mine was an O2 | 13:23 |
| johnx | tell me how it works out tomorrow :) | 13:23 |
| * johnx sleeps now. 'night all | 13:23 | |
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| TermanaN900 | night johnx | 13:24 |
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| yacc | Anyone got an explanation how the N900 can reboot spontaneously? It plays the Nokia sound after the Nokia logo, but goes directly to the screen instead of asking for the PIN? | 13:29 |
| SpeedEvil | An unhelpful answr is whenany hardware or software watchdog kicks in. | 13:29 |
| TermanaN900 | Is that two questions or one? | 13:30 |
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| yacc | SpeedEvil, first question is, how can the user do such a reboot, without PIN request? | 13:31 |
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| yacc | SpeedEvil, and second, where can I figure out what might be the watchdog that triggers that? | 13:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | What's your device currently doing? | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - not following closely - horribly tired. | 13:32 |
| yacc | TermanaN900, actually just one, I just wondered how it came that it does not ask the PIN either, which signifies to me mostly that it's not a normal reboot. | 13:32 |
| yacc | SpeedEvil, it's connected via Dummynetwork and USB and sitting just right of my PC mouse :) | 13:33 |
| yacc | Showing the desktop | 13:33 |
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| yacc | Ooops, just happened again, it reboots just now. | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Does it ever get to the 'normal' state. | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | And do you have a pressing reasonnot to reflash it. | 13:36 |
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| yacc | Well, it's in normal state between the reboots. | 13:37 |
| yacc | I can ssh into, the desktop is fully there, I can start apps, ... | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | cat /proc/boot_reason | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | will show the boot reason | 13:38 |
| yacc | sw_rst | 13:38 |
| yacc | software reset? | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | My next step would be to install syslogd, and configure it to log remotely to your desktop | 13:39 |
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| yacc | SpeedEvil, ah, thx for confirming that I have to do that, wondered if there is a "cheaper" way for lazy gits like me :-P | 13:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 13:42 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:42 |
| yacc | There is :) | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | sw-reset, hehe. some nasty software thinks it has to reboot (I bett 100 quid on dsme) | 13:43 |
| yacc | /dev/mtd2 seems to show the kernel oops, ... | 13:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, if there was a kernel oops then /dev/mtd2 holds it. If there's been none then what you see there is obsolete | 13:43 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Well, after a sw_rst it's probably more less current, I'd guess. | 13:44 |
| yacc | [ 436.695037] mtdoops: Ready 5, 6 (no erase) | 13:45 |
| yacc | [ 436.695037] Kernel panic - not syncing: Fatal exception in interrupt | 13:45 |
| yacc | Guess that's the last one, not very informative :( | 13:46 |
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| yacc | So, okay, how do I get rid of the "poweruser" kernel, just apt-get remove --purge will also restore the normal kernel to boot? | 13:47 |
| yacc | With a longer runtime I've got a kernel oops "NULL pointer derefence", interestingly, the backtrace suggests it happens in an interrupt too => musb_interrupt -> do_pio_rx -> __bug | 13:49 |
| yacc | oops, yet another sw_rst | 13:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yacc: nope, apt-get remove will either do nothing or break your device | 13:51 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yacc: why not just flash the kernel via the flasher utility? | 13:51 |
| yacc | RobbieThe1st, because I've never done it before? | 13:51 |
| yacc | ;) | 13:51 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: So how do I return to the normal kernel the correct way? | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: you need to flash the stock kernel to get rid of powerkernel | 13:51 |
| yacc | How? | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | check power kernel howto, it's explained there afaik | 13:52 |
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| yacc | google seems to help :) | 13:52 |
| timeless_xchat | it's snowing! | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | BLAAARGHH | 13:52 |
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| jpinx | does screen exist for installation in the n900? | 13:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 13:53 |
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| jpinx | which repo ? Ican't put my finger on it. | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | tools? | 13:53 |
| timeless_xchat | and an awesome snowflake landed on my jacket, but i couldn't take a picture with my n900 because i was on the phone! | 13:54 |
| * jpinx looks again... | 13:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer | can't remember, check chanlog - 2..3 days back | 13:54 |
| RobbieThe1st | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 | 13:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | timeless_xchat: xsnow | 13:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless_xchat: photo? "Wanted! dead or alive (preferably dead)"? | 13:55 |
| * DocScrutinizer hates snow | 13:55 | |
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| jpinx | RobbieThe1st: thanks - got it :) | 13:57 |
| RobbieThe1st | NP | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx: for a lazyman's repo setup check the link in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools :-D | 13:58 |
| TermanaDesire | Anyone want to explain what the lock switch actually does? | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | TermanaDesire: It blanks the screen | 13:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | TermanaDesire: and means it does not respond to further touchscreen input unless i't sunlocked | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Or unblanks of course, if it's blank | 13:59 |
| jpinx | TermanaDesire: stops you calling the police by accident ? :) | 13:59 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Sorry, any url for me? Your search - "power kernel howto" N900 - did not match any documents. | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | TermanaDesire: it causes a GPIO to go low when lockswitch engaged :-D | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: *my* search? | 14:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yacc: afaik on installing pkg kernel-power it explains where to read about details and how to revert to stock kernel. Titan has answered with a RTFM several times on such questions | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: sorry I myself never ever installed power kernel, so nfc | 14:04 |
| TermanaDesire | So it changes a gpio, blanks the screen with the sys node, stops touchscreen input (with a sys node?) Is that it? | 14:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | roundabout | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course it's a bit more complicated | 14:05 |
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| TermanaDesire | And the chipset starts doing power management when the screen is blanked? | 14:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically it's mce that's doing all this | 14:06 |
| jacekowski | power managment is working all the time | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, the chipset always does power mgmt | 14:06 |
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| obsidieth | which version of maemo5 should i be flashing onto my n900 | 14:07 |
| jacekowski | latest | 14:07 |
| obsidieth | alrighty. | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | unlike e.g. OM Freerunner the OMAP NITs don't do any suspend on screen locking | 14:08 |
| obsidieth | i was a little confused at there being a 2009 build above latest on the page. | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | obsidieth: the naming is plain insane | 14:08 |
| obsidieth | PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 | 14:08 |
| obsidieth | i assume thats the ticket. | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | TermanaDesire: however - whenthe screen is off, that enables it to close down lots of functional units. When the screen is locked, power use canbe when idle under 1/00th of the battery caapcity per hour | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | 1/200 | 14:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OSSO_VERSION='RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_MR0' OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION='10.2010.19-1' | 14:10 |
| TermanaDesire | SpeedEvil: so when you blank the screen it power saves more? | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | obsidieth: yes | 14:10 |
| obsidieth | word. | 14:10 |
| obsidieth | also, you guys use the n900 for skype much? | 14:10 |
| obsidieth | having some pretty serious quality issues lately | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | TermanaDesire: noob! yes of course, as the backlight won't eat large amounts of power then | 14:11 |
| TermanaDesire | DocScrutinizer: I meant besides the obvious :p | 14:12 |
| jacekowski | obsidieth: where are you from? | 14:12 |
| obsidieth | i am australian. | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | TermanaDesire: Xserver knows it doesn't need to refresh, so all apps are much more idle | 14:12 |
| jacekowski | hmm, yeah, get global firmware | 14:12 |
| jacekowski | and | 14:12 |
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| jacekowski | well, skype over 3g isn't the best thing | 14:12 |
| obsidieth | i only use it on my wifi | 14:13 |
| obsidieth | the same call from a pc is fine, but on the n900 | 14:13 |
| obsidieth | is kinda dies every 5 seconds | 14:13 |
| obsidieth | for maybe 1 second | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | hmm, wifi problem? | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | disable power saving | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | and check again | 14:13 |
| obsidieth | could it be power save settings or something i wonder | 14:13 |
| jacekowski | or dtim could mess up things | 14:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wkan PSM | 14:13 |
| obsidieth | hm? | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | kype is evil | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | wlan PowerSavingsMode | 14:14 |
| obsidieth | the n900 wouldnt be having trouble with my encryption maybe jacekowski? | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | but skype is BS | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: It's not the backlight. The backlight at the lowest level uses consuiderably less poewer than the amount used by the LCD /CPU | 14:14 |
| jacekowski | no, it's most likely power sawing | 14:14 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: kype? | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | TermanaDesire: | 14:15 |
| obsidieth | right. ill have a little experiment once i reflash. | 14:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you've seen the wireshark cellmo dissect? | 14:16 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 14:18 |
| jacekowski | who made it? | 14:18 |
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| Corsac | Harald Welte, I guess | 14:21 |
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| PontusOhman | Anyone knows which file to edit to remove the darn BusyBox message?! Is it the /etc/motd file or not? | 14:25 |
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| Aura | Domo Arigato Gozaïmasu. | 14:26 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Not your search, but "power kernel howto" your keywords :-P | 14:27 |
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| alterego | bored bored bored | 14:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: Harald?? | 14:29 |
| Aura | HellOlAloHallOhayo.. I HI.. SALUT bonjour guten tag good morning coucou ohayo saluté hasta siempre la victoria. | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aura: first and last warning | 14:29 |
| Aura | Sorry for Sephiroth | 14:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Aura: wtf Sephiroth? please say a turing-test compatible sentence! | 14:31 |
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| Gh0sty | :P | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aura: who are you? a fsckng bot? | 14:32 |
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| *** Aura was kicked by DocScrutinizer (come back when you got better things to say, and bother to answer) | 14:32 | |
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| Aura | I'm Ze | 14:33 |
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| Corsac | DocScrutinizer: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/gsm/ | 14:33 |
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| Aura | I'm Zarka. | 14:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok | 14:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's a bit better now | 14:34 |
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| Aura | i"m not Stanley Kubrick ! | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aura: you got a N900? | 14:35 |
| Aura | I love N900 | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | but do you HAVE | 14:36 |
| kerio | Aura: if a woodchuck could chuck wood, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck? | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aura: you're still under turing test. I'm not convinced and tend to ban you in a minute | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | give us one meaningful sentence please, preferably related to the topic of this chan | 14:38 |
| obsidieth | ah god. | 14:38 |
| obsidieth | flasher program cannot see it by usb apparently. | 14:38 |
| kerio | so a bot that passes the turing test would be allowed in here? | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: sure :-D | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aura: hi! | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: How does that make you feel? | 14:38 |
| kerio | eliza bots suck | 14:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh | 14:39 |
| Aura | Haah Haak | 14:39 |
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| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b Aura!*@* | 14:39 | |
| *** Aura was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) | 14:39 | |
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| ilius | how to share a local folder between ubuntu and scratchbox? | 14:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bindmount ? | 14:41 |
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| ilius | DocScrutinizer: inside or outside of sb? | 14:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | depends on location of folder and where you need it :-D | 14:42 |
| ilius | DocScrutinizer: thats outside of sb, and I need it inside of sb. but there is no command bindmount inside of sb | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably mount inside sb from outside sb, as the other way round is easy via full path like /scratchbox/home/users/foo/bar/users/xxx/yyy | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you need to do the bindmount cmd outside of sb | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that'S the whole point of a chroot | 14:43 |
| TiagoTiago | cat /dev/urandom | espeak | 14:44 |
| TiagoTiago | :D | 14:44 |
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| obsidieth | ar. certainly doesnt work. | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, we finally knopw how TiagoTiago creates his posts here :-P | 14:44 |
| TiagoTiago | xP | 14:44 |
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| TiagoTiago | lol, it just said "macromedia" O.O | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ilius: type 'mount' in a shell of your host system, while scratchbox is started, to see examples of other bindmounts | 14:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ilius: you need to create a similar mount for your 'local folder' | 14:46 |
| ilius | # mount /data /scratchbox/home/ilius/data --bind | 14:48 |
| ilius | mount: mount point /scratchbox/home/ilius/data does not exist | 14:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so create it! :-) (mkdir might help) | 14:48 |
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| ilius | /home/ilius/data exists inside sb | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, strange | 14:50 |
| ilius | i created /scratchbox/home/ilius/data and mounted | 14:50 |
| ilius | but not affect inside sb | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | please do a ls -l /scratchbox/home/ilius/data | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | err wut? "...inside sb"? You need to issue the mount cmd *outside* of sb | 14:52 |
| ilius | DocScrutinizer: its ok (many contents) outside of sb | 14:52 |
| ilius | DocScrutinizer: i meen i can not see contents inside of sb | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, as mount failed | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ls -l /scratchbox/home/ilius/data && mount --bind /data /scratchbox/home/ilius/data || echo "you missed the right shell (host, not sb) or you have no proper mountpoint dir" | 14:54 |
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| ilius | DocScrutinizer: it prints contens of /data | 14:55 |
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| ilius | DocScrutinizer: but /home/ilius/data is empty inside of sb | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine, so a 'mount' shall show a bindmount from /data to /scratchbox/home/ilius/data | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't think that's correct | 14:56 |
| TiagoTiago | i wonder what dreams i might have if i sleep with espeak reading /dev/urandom...... | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: I sleep with TV on, that's absolutely the same :-P | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ilius: in sb do 'touch /data/findme'; outside do find /scatchbox -name findme -ls | 14:58 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: that will kill your entropy pool! :( | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope it won't | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's urandom | 14:59 |
| kerio | yeah | 14:59 |
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| ilius | DocScrutinizer: solved! the correct command was: mount /data /scratchbox/users/ilius/home/ilius/data --bind | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | toldya | 15:01 |
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| ilius | DocScrutinizer: two times of username | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes sb is quite messed up | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | find -name findme will have shown you the correct path | 15:02 |
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| tobis87 | Hi, anyone read this paper? http://wiki.meego.com/File:MSSF_OLS2010.pdf | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf is that? | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: security framework | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | blargh! | 15:05 |
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| tobis87 | a total nightmare: "It must not be possible to change critical device parameters" "Providing services such as Music Store or Application Store requires device to support copyprotection. "It allows to have protection for scripts and data files, which do not have ELF header. " .... | 15:05 |
| RST38h | "Microsoft has loaded Windows Phone 7 with jargon that's more obfuscatory than explanatory, such as tiles and hubs. The "tiles" are really just widgets, and the "hubs" are really just application welcome screens" | 15:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep! | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | security framework is just to lock in user and give control of user's device to industry. everything else can be done without such BS | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: personally i see it as a way to keep my device safe while having it be more promiscious than a american college on exchange in europe | 15:07 |
| tobis87 | If you use your own kernel it will use open mode, "However in open mode, chipset security generates different keys which are incompatible with normal mode keys. This makes it impossible to get an access to copy protected content." | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | american college student, girl, on exchange in europe, that is | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: You see it wrong, sorry | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: we can debate all the time, but of course DRM is part of it | 15:08 |
| tobis87 | Does this mean, I can use a different kernel _or_ listen to the music I have buyed? | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | evidently there are "secure" unix servers around since ages. All additional 'security' means depriving user of rights and transfer control over those rights to another instance | 15:08 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: And, I am afraid, it is not an opinion, but a fact of life | 15:08 |
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| Stskeeps | tobis87: pretty much - don't support DRM music :) | 15:08 |
| RST38h | I.e. having this "protection" will do nothing to keep your device safer from actual threats (viruses, trojans, etc) | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | tobis87: exactly | 15:09 |
| RST38h | It will keep the content you buy safe from your attempts to copy it, of course | 15:09 |
| RST38h | But there is exactly zero personal value to you in this | 15:09 |
| tobis87 | Well, I could also just want to use a application I buyed. This is madness. | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: ACK, FULL ACK | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and nobody seems to get it | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | a pity | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i'd personally run it in open mode and set my own policies, but fair enough | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you can do this without that crap called "security foo" | 15:10 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: The whole point is that you have no control of it, content owners do | 15:11 |
| sx0n | security is good thing? | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: well, i don't buy DRM music anymore, tbh | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sx0n: omg | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Same here | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i did it once and it burnt me | 15:11 |
| Venemo_N900 | timeless: ping | 15:12 |
| sx0n | DocScrutinizer, i don't understand the crying about it. It is not end of the world. | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Which, of course, renders this whole "security architecture" useless, as people will either buy DRM-less stuff or "steal" it | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | if meego's going on several devices, by god, i'd want to have a proper security architecture | 15:13 |
| RST38h | Whatever is easier | 15:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sx0n: sorry but that's a BS statement | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | and something greater than 'current user' | 15:13 |
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| kerio | lol drm | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | sx0n: when I cut off your right hand, that's also not "the end of the world" | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I want my devices - ideally - to be a _complete_ brick if someone steals it. | 15:13 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Securing Unix/Linux is a well researched subject, where there is almost no place for innovation | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Ideally I would like it to come with an embedded thermite charge. | 15:13 |
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| kerio | SpeedEvil: so help us write n900nuke! | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I do not want the new 'owner' to be able to flash it. | 15:14 |
| sx0n | DocScrutinizer, :) | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: how do i make sure gpodder doesn't explode my battery? | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: So, whatever "new security architecture" you see, it is most likely snakeoil | 15:14 |
| Venemo_N900 | SpeedEvil: why not with a small nuke? | 15:14 |
| kerio | blow up speakers and flash, overload the cpu | 15:14 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, write garbage directly to nand? | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: You do not use bad batteries. | 15:14 |
| kerio | overclock it to 2ghz and let it run without checks | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: Overvoltaging CPU is in principle possible AIUI | 15:14 |
| kerio | then flash the bootloader | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: worse. no snakeoil but a logical trojan selling industry DRM as 'security' | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Doc: Sometimes, yes. | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Possibly other subsystems. | 15:15 |
| RST38h | Not always. | 15:15 |
| Venemo_N900 | ~nuke the guys who steal SpeedEvil's N900 | 15:15 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at the guys who steal SpeedEvil's N900 ... B☢☢M! | 15:15 | |
| Stskeeps | kerio: ah, good one | 15:15 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: BTW, it is important to note that the goal of computer security is not to deal with every imaginable threat | 15:15 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: But to deal with the most likely threats. | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no, but currently any app i can install can do -everything- | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | which is not good | 15:16 |
| kerio | the goal of computer security is to deal with every imaginable threat in a sensible way | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Well, Unix avoids it by not giving every app root privileges | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah, tell that to postinst scripts in debian.. | 15:16 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: why is it not good | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Implement the same in Meego, and you have solved 75% of security issues | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: there's SElinux, md5sum and a lot of other 'security' stuff. We DO NOT WANT security framework, as it has exactly one new thing: DRM | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Meego is not debian based. | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: well then disable it, be happy | 15:17 |
| kerio | stop shrugging off *your* responsibilities | 15:17 |
| tobis87 | sx0n: It is all about this: "Comparing to personal computers where users have more control over the device (...) mobile device users do not expect that they need to make complicated configuration of the device." This implies that because users don't _need_ it, there is no use to have them access to parts of the system. | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | and we all know DRM spells Digital Restrictions Management | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | and stop whining about it | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: BTW, you can also consider this problem from the social point | 15:17 |
| mece | oh my. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/12/apple_trademark/ | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you don't get it, eh? | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: no, i do get it | 15:17 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: if you're not willing to *think* while you install random programs, i say you deserve the worse | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Make it REALLY easy to report/discuss apps found in a repo | 15:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: when we got that shit implemented in bootloader, then there's no way back | 15:17 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 15:18 | |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Make the app manager show red flags for apps with a lot of negative feedback | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: tmo shows this doesn't work | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I wish there was a gsmdump with cheap hardware. | 15:18 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Actually, it does work | 15:18 |
| kerio | to install programs, you need root privileges | 15:18 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: It may not work for adolescent tmo lemmings, but they are not your audience | 15:18 |
| kerio | beyond that point, whatever you do is *your* fault | 15:18 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: They will find a way to brick their preciouses anyway | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | sigh | 15:18 |
| kerio | am i the only one that doublechecks *every* sudo command he executes? | 15:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | Nope | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | my point is - i'd like to control what apps does on my devices, end of story | 15:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | me too | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: 99% of people will not install an app that has a lot of VISIBLE negative feedback | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | i don't care for DRM | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Yea, ACLs then | 15:19 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: so look at the source | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | which noone has found a good day to deal with | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: With some intelligent GUI on top | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Noone ever tried | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | s/day/way/ | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: use SElinux - end of story | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | kerio: the world isn't open source | 15:19 |
| *** hrw is now known as hrw|afk | 15:19 | |
| mece | Aaaha comedy gold in the "I want to DELETE my ACCOUNT" thread on tmo! | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: When they say "security" they mean DRM and device locking | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: BTW, if you really want to discuss the topic in detail, you should probably chat with Arkenoi | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WUT | 15:20 |
| Myrtti | I want a device that works. | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot!!!! | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Who can continue on this topic for hours :) | 15:20 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: either you stop and *think* about what you're doing, or you have to let someone else do that for you (see walled garden etc.) | 15:20 |
| kerio | infobot! noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | Myrtti: buy a winmoob7 then :-P | 15:21 |
| RST38h | (and he really knows what he is tlaking about, unlike yours truly :)) | 15:21 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Tried a kitchen knife already? | 15:21 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: yeah, I slash myself a little everytime a stupid flamewar starts | 15:21 |
| sx0n | tobis87, sounds bad for gadget heavy users. maybe linux/meego is going to mainstream and these things are required by content creators such as game makers. | 15:21 |
| Myrtti | (not really) | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: probably, but my angle is: i bloody want a framework where i can set up security policies, even on dbus, where i can use my apps in a fairly normal way, without having to seperate out in multiple unix users | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | sx0n: exactly | 15:22 |
| Venemo_N900 | Stskeeps: isn't SELinux okay forthat? | 15:22 |
| kerio | Stskeeps: and i want a blowjob from angelina jolie | 15:22 |
| Myrtti | I wish I knew where my cables are, I need to learn how to find out what makes my N1 crash | 15:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: use SElinux - end of story | 15:23 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: rather complex to shoot after things | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | so, you're okay with selinux but not with a minimal set of it? | 15:24 |
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| Stskeeps | interesting | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol! you suggest 'security framework' getting so much simpler?? | 15:24 |
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| Myrtti | wheeee | 15:24 |
| Myrtti | yay, we now have something else to discuss about | 15:24 |
| * Myrtti waits for it... | 15:25 | |
| sx0n | angelina jolie has new movie in theaters :) | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: sorry, you obviously don't get it. security framework has absolutely nothing in common with SElinux - the least some DRM shit that blocks user from own device | 15:25 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: and SELinux can't be modded in such a way that you can't get to your own stuff? | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus SElinux is a kernel thing, while security framework starts in bootloader or even earlier, in ROm/HW | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | frankly, if you want a policy enforced, there's only one way to do it | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | in bootloader | 15:26 |
| vdv | does anybody know some newsreader for maemo? | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: on-die bootloader. | 15:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | Vdv: there are bunch of RSS readers | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | otherwise it's init=/bin/bash bullshit | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: exactly, for the one that has control over the bootloader -wait who's that for N900? | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: so, let's leave nokia out of this for a second | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | definitely not | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | what if this proposal was written be let's say, paul vixie, in his free time | 15:27 |
| Termana | Here we go | 15:27 |
| vdv | Venemo_N900, but newsgroups | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | would you have reacted in the same way to the technical merits? | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | if bootloader gets security framework the your device is owned by somebody else | 15:28 |
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| Venemo_N900 | vdv: i dunno | 15:28 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i'd rather say 'pre-installed' policy instead | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I react to this shit in same way whoever mentions it wherever | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: which can be overwritten with your own | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahahahahahaaaaaa | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: well, i'll remember to say 'DRM' next time i want you pissed off then :) | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | you're attacking this because of the possible uses, - i could say the same about people using tor for child porn | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | i'm looking at the technical merits | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: try to 'overwrite policy' on milestone! | 15:30 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: well, at least we even have a open mode | 15:30 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, IF Nokia implements that. Just saying. | 15:30 |
| Termana | :p | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | for how long? why do we need that shit? to have a reason to hail Nokia?? | 15:30 |
| sx0n | "jailbreak" mode | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | sx0n: won't work | 15:31 |
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| Termana | Just because Nokia shows that it's there and possible doesn't mean that they will implement it. But we already know it's suppose to be implemented in non-carrier phones | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | a properly done security framework is 'safe' | 15:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | infobot's not here | 15:32 |
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| infobot | Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | frankly, i wouldn't mind this kind of framework since it opens up a lot of different opportunities, such as that i don't have to worry if someone steals my n900 and i have naked pictures of myself on it | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ciao | 15:32 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 15:32 |
| Venemo_N900 | ~botsnack | 15:32 |
| infobot | :), Venemo_N900 | 15:32 |
| Termana | Don't want to know. | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for that you don't need security framework, as it's NOLO/BL that does kernel *flashing* | 15:33 |
| sx0n | Stskeeps, as "content provider" you don't like your pictures to be misused :) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's sufficient to have a proper pin-querying kernel, plus a password in NOLO for flashing | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | if I have npo control of the BL, and the BL has full control over the kernel to load and its signature then the device got owned by BL manufacturer and I have been deprived of my permissions | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka ownership of the device | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: then don't buy that device, simple as that | 15:35 |
| sx0n | i am writing few apps and i surely want money out of those if someone want's to pay. certainly too much security that could not be "unsecured" is bad for hackerz | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I already have that device | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: then sell it and practice what you preach | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you are suggesting to implement a 'robbery' | 15:36 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, syou need to be a little less strong with your analogies and descriptive terms and not shock value | 15:36 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, who said the N900 is going to get this at all? | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: what, the nekkid pictures? | 15:36 |
| Venemo_N900 | :D | 15:36 |
| lcuk | now, is the removable memory card going to be encrypted? | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: or *you* just fsck off and don't push security framework | 15:36 |
| lcuk | is it going to be formatted not FAT? | 15:36 |
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| lcuk | or are your naked pictures going to remain usable in windows? | 15:36 |
| tobis87 | I agree selinux is hard to implement, I like grsecurity. | 15:37 |
| Termana | lcuk, are you looking to get Stskeeps' naked pictures? | 15:37 |
| Termana | :p | 15:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seriously, don't force feed me that dogfood | 15:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pissed | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | bye | 15:37 |
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| lcuk | no Termana I am interested to know how security policy on device protects pictures stored on mmc | 15:38 |
| lcuk | or will the camera never offer to store photos there? | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: with a bit of g_file_storage magic you can do this with encryption | 15:38 |
| lcuk | evil bit? | 15:38 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, think about it, i can remove the mmc and pop it into my other reader | 15:38 |
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| lcuk | and users WILL expect that to work | 15:39 |
| kerio | full disk encryption | 15:39 |
| kerio | lol | 15:39 |
| lcuk | your naked pictures are not safe | 15:39 |
| lcuk | now, sensible security policy: do not allow naked pictures to be taken if you dont want them exposed. | 15:39 |
| kerio | how fast would truecrypt on n900 be? | 15:39 |
| Myrtti | I vote for cheesecake. Smudge it all over the MMC, and your problems are solved. | 15:39 |
| Myrtti | also, eat some. | 15:40 |
| kerio | omnomnom | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: that restricts my freedom! | 15:40 |
| Venemo_N900 | SELinux should be sufficent to protect the system itself | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N900: it's like shooting elephants with nuclear bombs, though | 15:40 |
| Venemo_N900 | protecting naked pictures doesn't make any sense | 15:41 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, no, take all the naked pictures you want dude | 15:41 |
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| alterego | Hah, the carphonewarehouse just failed, on their phone finder, they have an N8 option when Nokia is selected as the manufacturer, but it comes up with no results. | 15:41 |
| alterego | How lame | 15:41 |
| lcuk | but if someone wants to put them online (perhaps for a magnifying application :P) they will find a way | 15:41 |
| lcuk | i have to go anyway | 15:41 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: I would be surprised if it's slower than 8M/s | 15:41 |
| lcuk | \o | 15:41 |
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| Stskeeps | tobis87: do you have a working SHA1 acceleration btw? | 15:41 |
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| dneary | Hi all | 15:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | o/ lcuk | 15:42 |
| kerio | if you don't want naked pictures of you around, keep clothes on | 15:42 |
| dneary | kerio, That came a bit out of left field... | 15:42 |
| Myrtti | dneary: welcome to the madhouse | 15:43 |
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| Myrtti | so, Zarka... | 15:45 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Sha1 was always working, it had just a strange digest size in /proc/crypto. The error which aes caused could be reproduced I hope it can be fixed, because it is a cpu errata which causes this problem. | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: ok - did you need a new nolo for that? | 15:46 |
| dneary | Myrtti: Be careful, if you keep tickling the kittens like that, you'll get caught for insider trading. | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | for sha1 only | 15:46 |
| Myrtti | awww | 15:46 |
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| tobis87 | Don't know, I tested sha1 the first time, after I already updated nolo. | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:46 |
| Zarka | A lot of Hello from Zanarkand. | 15:47 |
| tobis87 | for which kernel do you need it? | 15:47 |
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| Stskeeps | tobis87: 2.6.35 | 15:47 |
| dneary | Silly question... what's the easiest way to know what version of the SDK I am running from Scratchbox? | 15:47 |
| crashanddie | dneary, /etc/release ? (not sure at all) | 15:48 |
| tobis87 | You will not need my modifications, because they are for using it with 2.6.28 and standalone. | 15:48 |
| dneary | Silly follow-up, if I don't have the latest version, what's the easiest way to upgrade? | 15:48 |
| Zarka | 65.536.16.256.8192 | 15:48 |
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| crashanddie | Zarka, unless you start making sense very soon, you will be banned | 15:48 |
| dneary | crashanddie, Doesn't exist | 15:48 |
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| Myrtti | crashanddie: he was already banned with a different nickname | 15:49 |
| Myrtti | or rather, is | 15:49 |
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| *** crashanddie sets mode: +b *!*@just.dear.apple.org.ru | 15:49 | |
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| ieatlint | wow, i'm glad that making sense requisite isn't applied to me | 15:50 |
| Myrtti | I never make sense but I make witty commentary | 15:51 |
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| TiagoTiago | erm, lol, somthing made espeak go sloooooooooooooow | 15:53 |
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| TiagoTiago | i wonder if i should give it a rest ..... | 15:53 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: But I've got an older version of the driver, because the new is based on ahash, which cannot be backported. So I cannot say if the omap-sham will work, because the new one also uses dma and dma caused these problems. | 15:53 |
| TiagoTiago | lol it keeps repeating "dildodildo" xP | 15:54 |
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| TiagoTiago | "microdildomasculineopoundthroat" lmao | 15:55 |
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| TiagoTiago | "exclamationatyou" | 15:57 |
| TiagoTiago | "a dildo, a ring!" lol | 15:57 |
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| Myrtti | *yawn* | 15:58 |
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| TiagoTiago | lol, it sounds like it's dying very gradually | 16:00 |
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| TiagoTiago | "ilikeUarecutearing!" | 16:04 |
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| crashanddie | TiagoTiago, please stfu | 16:05 |
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| TiagoTiago | i'm quoting espeak reading /dev/random when it says somthing funny :( | 16:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | \s\random\urandom\ | 16:07 |
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| Myrtti | awww, 500 Internal Server Error at youtube... | 16:15 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 16:15 |
| Myrtti | happened after I watched a video about will Old Spice blend... | 16:16 |
| Myrtti | must have been the memes colliding that did that | 16:16 |
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| tobis87 | crashanddie: Any news about the injection drivers? I tried to compile the latest compat-wireless, but the config.mk somehow messes up autoconf. | 16:16 |
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| tobis87 | Myrtti: Works for me, deleting the cookies sometimes helps for youtube. | 16:17 |
| Myrtti | tobis87: I don't doubt it works | 16:18 |
| Myrtti | it was just damn funny | 16:18 |
| tobis87 | :-D | 16:20 |
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| alterego | Hahah: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=838920&postcount=342 | 16:38 |
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| vis | bleh | 16:39 |
| frals | lol | 16:39 |
| vis | trying to map shift-fn-a to adiaeresis ä, but instead i get Adiaeresis Ä | 16:39 |
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| flux | I have a similar proble, I've mapped F12 to ä, but shift-F12 doesn't give me capital ä :) | 16:40 |
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| flux | (on pc, obviously) | 16:40 |
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| kerio | flux: so map it to the combining diaeresis | 16:58 |
| kerio | vis: map it to Adiaeresis | 16:59 |
| flux | kerio, well, my .xmodmap says keycode 0x60 =adiaeresis Adiaeresis | 16:59 |
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| flux | but possibly this kind of stuff should be done with xkbd these days | 17:01 |
| kerio | xmodmap? | 17:01 |
| kerio | :| | 17:01 |
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| vis | kerio, oh wow, that actually worked | 17:05 |
| vis | thanks a bunch | 17:05 |
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| dneary | Still no ide how I might find out the SDK version | 17:18 |
| dneary | Is there an easy way to list all available targets in a scratchbox install? | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | dneary, ls ~/Downloads/*.sh :) | 17:18 |
| dneary | crashanddie, I found sb-menu | 17:19 |
| dneary | Where I can see targets which are configures, and get some version information (but I don't know what that might correspond to) | 17:19 |
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| dneary | I know I didn't update SB since I installed it on the laptop I'm using, and that was a good while ago | 17:19 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps, I was wondering how I can tell within Scratchbox what SDK version I'm running | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | hmm.. in terms of the target? | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | "An armless pianist has won the first series of China's version of the internationally popular television talent show "China's Got Talent. Liu Wei, 23, who lost both his arms at age 10 when he was electrocuted during a game of hide-and-seek, defeated a 7-year-old standup comedian." | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | Oh wow, he beat a 7 yo... | 17:21 |
| jpinx-eeepc | presumably the standup comedian had no legs? | 17:22 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 17:22 |
| lcuk | dneary, inside your scratchbox the packages inside your target can be updated outside of any specific version | 17:22 |
| ieatlint | i'm somehow wondering what chinese standup comedy is like | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: trying to tie it to PR1.x? | 17:22 |
| crashanddie | ieatlint, don't know about stand-up, but even pianists are funny: "He also reportedly won over the judges by commenting, "At least I have a pair of perfect legs."" | 17:23 |
| lcuk | hmm though not sure the best way to confirm | 17:23 |
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| crashanddie | How long has "Britain's got talent" been going for, lcuk? | 17:23 |
| dneary | lcuk, Basically, I'd like to figure out whether I should reinstall the SDK, or whether it's OK to do development on | 17:24 |
| lcuk | IDK, not avid tv fan | 17:24 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, I want to make sure for code samples that I'm compiling & running on PR 1.2 | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | dneary, apt-get update; apt-get upgrade ?? depending on the apt repository config.. | 17:24 |
| dneary | lcuk, And that'll update me to the latest Fremantle SDK? | 17:25 |
| dneary | Cool, thanks | 17:25 |
| lcuk | infact, was sdk repository appended with 1.2 | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: should | 17:25 |
| ieatlint | must use fakeroot to run apt-get correctly in scratchbox | 17:25 |
| TiagoTiago | n. koreans got paper money, and they buy 'burgers on a stand at the fair, at least while foreign reporters got their camera nearby...... | 17:25 |
| ieatlint | TiagoTiago: it's likely not bullshit what the reporters are seeing | 17:25 |
| ieatlint | there is an upper class in north korea like every country... the lower classes the reporters aren't allowed to go near | 17:26 |
| dneary | ieatlint, Thanks | 17:26 |
| TiagoTiago | ironicly their paper money got communist symbols printed in it | 17:26 |
| Myrtti | I see the madhouse has transformed into a random generator now | 17:27 |
| dneary | Getting some warnings because of missing GPG keyrings - ignorable? | 17:27 |
| ieatlint | communism doesn't abolish the existence of money, but rather the capitalist system (although there is no actual communist country, and never has been -- at least not in compliance with marx's ideology) | 17:27 |
| dneary | Myrtti: The meringues danced daisyhead loops. | 17:28 |
| GAN900 | ieatlint, and can't even be, because it's an unworkable system in the real world. | 17:28 |
| TiagoTiago | it's all about power and sttuborness | 17:28 |
| ieatlint | GAN900: i'd agree :P | 17:28 |
| crashanddie | ieatlint, wow there, you're so fucking off topic you're nearly creating your own channel. | 17:28 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 17:28 |
| ieatlint | crashanddie: you remind me of a toblerone | 17:28 |
| Myrtti | y'all just plain crazy | 17:28 |
| Myrtti | oo chocolate | 17:29 |
| crashanddie | ieatlint, quirky, yet delicious? | 17:29 |
| dneary | Stskeeps, A side question: Is the Fremantle GTK+ in GIT somewhere? I'd like to track the delta between the GTK+ base and the Maemo GTK+ branch over its history at some stage (not today) | 17:29 |
| Myrtti | white chocolate or milk chocolate? | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: i think it's on maemo.gitorious.org | 17:29 |
| Myrtti | white plz ^____^ | 17:29 |
| ieatlint | i'll stop now :P | 17:29 |
| TiagoTiago | sorry, i got carried away with the talk about chinese armless penist and legless standup comic and what was showing on my TV right now | 17:29 |
| crashanddie | chinese armless penist? | 17:29 |
| dneary | Ironically, you're stopping just at the point where everyone had lost interest. | 17:30 |
| dneary | crashanddie, All penists are armless | 17:30 |
| ieatlint | dneary: which is unusual for me, i'm told i typically carry on well past that point | 17:30 |
| Myrtti | oh jebus and holy maringue | 17:30 |
| dneary | ieatlint, Ironically, that wasn't ironic at all | 17:30 |
| ieatlint | how ironical of you | 17:30 |
| Myrtti | my sarcasdar bleeps | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | my eye bleeds | 17:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | someone should make a skit in a submarine where the sonar curses like a sailor on each hit and the seamen all get a bit embarassed by it, eventually one of them complains with the captain and the captain explains it will get bleeped in post | 17:34 |
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| tobis87 | GAN900: It depends, it would only work if the system is changed progressivly and not by revolution. Captitalism is also a ideology. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g . But this is really offtopic. | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | TiagoTiago: please stop psoting nonsense | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | youdev/urandom running hotr | 17:35 |
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| Myrtti | I need a brainwash | 17:36 |
| TiagoTiago | that wasn't nonsense, it was a funny thing i came up with | 17:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 passing brain shampoo to Myrtti | 17:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | TiagoTiago: /join #fun | 17:37 |
| Myrtti | the way I misread a few words in that random sentence, now that was funny | 17:37 |
| * crashanddie bets on seamen | 17:37 | |
| Myrtti | yup | 17:37 |
| Myrtti | blinked a couple of times | 17:37 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders. | 17:38 | |
| TiagoTiago | i'll shut up now :( | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Is that pink? | 17:38 |
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| dneary | guys, while I enjoyed formulating meaningless sentences, it seems like the channel is fast becoming a hang-out place where idle chatter has taken over from any talk to do with Maemo | 17:39 |
| dneary | Am I mistaken? | 17:39 |
| TiagoTiago | like i said, i'm shutting up already u.u | 17:39 |
| jpinx-eeepc | can you make a #maemo-offtopic ? | 17:39 |
| Myrtti | dneary: seems to be the common thread of today | 17:40 |
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| dneary | jpinx-eeepc, /join #maemo-offtopic - done | 17:41 |
| jpinx-eeepc | dneary: sure, but to keep it alive when everyone leaves? | 17:42 |
| TiagoTiago | leave a link to it in topic for this channel? | 17:42 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | no-one will use it if there's no-one there... | 17:44 |
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| TiagoTiago | i usually try to not get in the way of on-topic convos with off-topic chatter, today i kinda messed up though.... | 17:46 |
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| crashanddie | damn... now that's a big typo: "no buddy" instead of "nobody" | 17:55 |
| * MohammadAG51 wonders how the meego kernel blanks out NOLO | 17:57 | |
| Stskeeps | blanks out? | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | it turns on the display | 17:57 |
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| TiagoTiago | can the open parts of MeeGo that aren't open on M5 get backported? | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | generic channel for off-topic: #defocus | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I mean how's maemo-offtopic different from foobar-offtopic | 18:09 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer51: people from #maemo are usually there present | 18:09 |
| mikki-kun | or would be | 18:09 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a way to set the server to autojoin people into a channel? (obeying an opt-in/out of course) | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | TiagoTiago: there are some ways to forward you to #defocus, yes :-P | 18:12 |
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| ieatlint | TiagoTiago: if you control the server, yes | 18:12 |
| TiagoTiago | i mean to setup somthing to ask people that join #maemo if they would mind partaking in the parallel offtopic channel and if they say "ok, keep me there too" each they come here they also endup there too | 18:13 |
| TiagoTiago | each time* | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nope | 18:14 |
| TiagoTiago | that would be usefull : | 18:14 |
| TiagoTiago | :/ | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd call that spamming | 18:16 |
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| TiagoTiago | only ask for the first time the person comes | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lol | 18:17 |
| TiagoTiago | or if they say some special keyphrase to change their status in this matter | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rethink | 18:17 |
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| dneary | Hi | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | lo | 18:23 |
| dneary | I am trying to figure out how to exit an application in Xephyr | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 18:24 |
| dneary | I can't figure it out :} | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | killall ? | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | xkill ? | 18:24 |
| dneary | I don't have the WM shell stuff (the X button, the clock, etc) when I'm in applications | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if your app has no generic way to quit, and is running without a window manager that offers decoration widgets to send a sigterm, then you need to do that any other way | 18:26 |
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| dneary | DocScrutinizer: I'm just running the basic SDK | 18:26 |
| dneary | Shouldn't there be a WM and a panel app running? | 18:27 |
| dneary | Ah | 18:27 |
| dneary | It is there, but it died & didn't respawn | 18:27 |
| dneary | Never mind me | 18:27 |
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| TiagoTiago | why so manhy fonts mangle the dimensions of the box drawing characters? Its the type of thing that if you're not gonna do right, you shouldn't do at all Dx< | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | TiagoTiago: your supposedly on topic comments aren't much better than yout OT random. Please rephrase | 18:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe it's just me, but I didn't really get it | 18:37 |
| crashanddie | docscrutinizer: it's not you | 18:37 |
| TiagoTiago | no one was saying anything so i didn't felt too guilty about it | 18:38 |
| crashanddie | more than one are the people who have expressed unhappy feelings about TiagoTiago's noobish behaviour, often comparing him to a troll | 18:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~tell TiagoTiago about question | 18:39 |
| TiagoTiago | ok, i'll log out for now then, sorry for upseting you | 18:40 |
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| dneary | Is it normal that the browser won't start in the latest updated SDK? | 18:40 |
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| dneary | maemo-launcher message: "child terminated due to exit(Ã =127" | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | umm | 18:41 |
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| MohammadAG51 | updated? when? | 18:41 |
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| dneary | MohammadAG51, This afternoon (as in, apt-get update; apt-get upgrade) | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | ooh, PR1.3 is close :P | 18:45 |
| dneary | I have no idea | 18:46 |
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| dneary | Ah | 18:46 |
| dneary | Seems there's no internet in Scratchbox | 18:46 |
| * MohammadAG51 now does, in a way | 18:46 | |
| MohammadAG51 | two months to go xP | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | though they probably won't make the same mistake again | 18:47 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i.e update builder and sdk to 1.3, cause incompatibilies two months before it's released | 18:47 |
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| MohammadAG51 | so it might be out in less than a week | 18:47 |
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| dneary | In my scratchbox, that is | 18:50 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | oh boy that usb networking thing is so damn flaky | 18:51 |
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| fcrochik | Mohammad/dneary: are you saying that the sdk on scratchbox was updated since pr1.2? I am trying to package a new application and if I compile it on the Nokia SDK it works fine but when I compile on scratchbox and copy to my device I get an unexplainable "Segmention Fault" | 18:53 |
| kerio | does scratchbox run on n900? | 18:53 |
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| alterego | kerio: not likely | 18:54 |
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| dneary | fcrochik, No, I'm just trying to get some sample code working on the SDK & a bunch of stuff I thought used to work isn't working any more | 18:56 |
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| dneary | The browser, notably | 18:57 |
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| dneary | I tried to run it manually & got "browser: symbol lookup error: /usr/bin/browser.launch: undefined symbol: browser_engine_get_plugin_mgr | 18:57 |
| dneary | " | 18:57 |
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| fcrochik | dneary: I didn't think so but got the train moving and thought maybe there was an easier explanation for my segmentation fault... | 18:59 |
| dneary | fcrochik, I was asking earlier how to know which version of the SDK was installed in scratchbox | 19:00 |
| dneary | No-one knew the answer | 19:00 |
| dneary | So I said "what I *really* want is to be sure I'm at the latest version" | 19:00 |
| dneary | and I was reassured that apt-get update; apt-get upgrade would get me there | 19:00 |
| dneary | I think I had PR 1.0 or 1.1 installed before | 19:01 |
| ftrvxmtrx | cat /etc/maemo_version, no? | 19:01 |
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| fcrochik | dneary: I saw that... I actually got the idea from Mohammad post .... :) | 19:02 |
| dneary | ftrvxmtrx, Ah | 19:02 |
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| dneary | Wish you'd been about earlier | 19:02 |
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| dneary | Does that get updated when I apt-get upgrade? | 19:03 |
| ftrvxmtrx | not sure | 19:03 |
| dneary | It's at 5.0update6 Fremantle now | 19:03 |
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| fcrochik | dneary: mine says the same if it is any consolation | 19:04 |
| dneary | fcrochik, Cool | 19:04 |
| fcrochik | dneary: sorry for one more noob question: how do you get the post you send to me to be hilighted? I am still trying to figure out how I can improve communi .. :) | 19:05 |
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| * MohammadAG51 has a copy of PR1.2 sdk, | 19:07 | |
| * MohammadAG51 updates | 19:07 | |
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| MohammadAG51 | fcrochik, type the full nick, or use tab | 19:08 |
| fcrochik | MohammadAG51: cool! | 19:08 |
| fcrochik | MohammadAG51: did it work? | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah | 19:09 |
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| MohammadAG51 | dneary, no sdk update here | 19:10 |
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| * DocScrutinizer mumbles osso-product-info | 19:11 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | fcrochik: highlighting is a feature of your irc client | 19:12 |
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| *** adam__ is now known as mza- | 19:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer | except if somebody is using colors | 19:13 |
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| * MohammadAG51 mumbles cal, i.e mtd1, not on sdk :P | 19:13 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | fair nuff | 19:13 |
| RST38h | well...moo... | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo RST38h | 19:14 |
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| * alterego starts studying QML again | 19:16 | |
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| RST38h | alterego: what stopped it the last time? | 19:23 |
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| RST38h | OMG Karel Jansens is back to tmo! | 19:25 |
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| alterego | RST38h: work :) | 19:26 |
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| RST38h | And he still has his Pandora signature! | 19:26 |
| RST38h | No, I am wrong those were the posts from 2009 | 19:27 |
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| alterego | Urgh, it's annoying doing QML dev on my laptop .. | 19:28 |
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| alterego | No touch screen :( | 19:28 |
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| RST38h | What does QML have to do with touch screen though? | 19:31 |
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| alterego | Nothing, but I'm designing the UI and I just want to touch it :( | 19:33 |
| RST38h | Ah, you touchy feely developer! | 19:36 |
| Myrtti | mmmm, that was a nice dinner | 19:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: luke-jr_ (DrWilken): (my apache problem): /etc/httpd/conf.d got included *after* the dir holding the vhost defs :-P | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so all Options +Index got overridden by the greeter page in apache default host | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | (/etc/httpd/conf.d/welcome.conf) | 20:10 |
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| jacktheripper | which should I use, bootmenu or multiboot ? | 20:13 |
| jacekowski | none of the above? | 20:13 |
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| jacktheripper | umm why not ? | 20:14 |
| jacktheripper | or wasn't that directed to me. | 20:15 |
| RST38h | Study Finds Most Would Become Supervillians If Given Powers | 20:16 |
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| RST38h | Definitely needs further experimentative investigation. | 20:17 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i think my N900's gonna break into two pieces soon | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | gap in slider is getting worse | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: have you checked if maybe the PH0 screws holding/fixing the slider mechanism in body are broken? | 20:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | i probably need a new slider and screws, and a screwdriver | 20:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | or just a screwdriver to tighten it | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | either that then you need a new slider mechanism probably if you can't remove the lower 'half' of the screw from the thread, or your plasic case lower half is broken where the screw heads are | 20:32 |
| vdv | what is the syntax of connecting to remote host via ssh? ssh -l user host:port doesn't work | 20:32 |
| mgedmin | ssh user@host -p port | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | or ssh -l user host -p port | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | if you do it often, edit ~/.ssh/config so it will remember the port for this host | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | and user, too | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or write a shellscript like "#! /bin/sh \n ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@192.168.0.202" | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and edit the ssh parameters there to meet your needs | 20:35 |
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| mgedmin | nah, I suggest .ssh/config | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | (my prefered method) | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | because then it'll work for scp too | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | and for sshfs | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | and for svn checkout svn+ssh://host/... | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, hmm, yes | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | and for everything else, basically | 20:36 |
| DangerMaus | heh | 20:36 |
| * mgedmin pulls hair out cursing xpath | 20:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | but how'll you handle the frigging known_hosts issue? | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | same way you do | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | "StrictHostKeyChecking no" in the right Host section | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | didn't know you can do it in .ssh/config | 20:37 |
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| mgedmin | well, I prefer CheckHostIP no, and sometimes HostKeyAlias thisismyserver | 20:38 |
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| mgedmin | the funny thing is that ssh's -o is a way to put config options on the command line ;) | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | rrrrright | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | :o) <-- fool | 20:39 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, no screwdriver but.. | 20:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | nothing visible | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing isn't much eh? | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there should be a screw head PH0 visible ;-) | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | at bottom of those holes | 20:41 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, they are visible, but the slider's squeaky | 20:41 |
| vdv | mgedmin, thanks that was just -p flag | 20:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | when i tilt it (same as when you remove the screen) | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | tilt it and watch the screw heads! | 20:42 |
| vdv | mgedmin, and strange i have an entry for that host in config | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they move, check if they are loose or the plasic around them is broken and moves too | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they don't move, try to UNscrew them! | 20:44 |
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| MohammadAG51 | nope, nothing like that | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | witha sharp pointed knife e.g. | 20:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | wouldn't they strip? | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | if the srew head falls out after one or two turns of unscrewing it, the screw is broken | 20:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | i know how to handle the ribbon btw, i've worked with some 10 of them | 20:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | so as per tmo rules, I'm an engineer | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | if the screw are really tight and hard to unscrew, then check for other cause of the gap | 20:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | and I declare overclocking safe /sarcasm | 20:46 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: XML is evil, Evil, EVIL | 20:46 |
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| * RST38h curses mgedmin with XSLT "programming", just for lulz | 20:46 | |
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| mgedmin | XML ain't that bad, but it spawned lots of truly evil things | 20:46 |
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| RST38h | yeah | 20:46 |
| mgedmin | eeek! I tried xslt for a week | 20:46 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: You are more of an engineer than 99% of tmo regulars nowadays | 20:47 |
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| jonne|reconnecte | is there a bug with the facebook sharing thing on the n900? | 20:48 |
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| jonne|reconnecte | the 'update album list' doesn't seem to be working any more | 20:48 |
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| jonne|reconnecte | 'update album list' button | 20:48 |
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| * DocScrutinizer mumbles GSDC XMLMaker and laughs hysterically | 20:48 | |
| jonne|reconnecte | oh wait, i changed my facebook password, that must be it | 20:50 |
| jonne|reconnecte | there should've been an error message or something, though | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I invented a whole programming language living in a excel sheet and executed by custom cell functions linked in to excel via dcom or whatever it's been called (VBA / VB) | 20:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer suffocates from laughing like a mad dog | 20:52 | |
| ieatlint | you laugh, but i have a friend who "scripts" in excel | 20:52 |
| wmarone | that sounds evil. very, very evil. | 20:52 |
| ieatlint | it was funny until i realized he was serious | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | my first job was basically converting Excel macros to a C++ app | 20:53 |
| ieatlint | although to make it funnier, this guy also knew cobol | 20:53 |
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| wmarone | I hope he made good money | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | in my case the Excel files were specs, not an actual solution, though | 20:55 |
| mgedmin | which makes it a bit less funny | 20:55 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, unscrewed them, are the top two the ones holding the slider? or are the middle ones involved too? | 20:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | top and middle ones (PH0) are slider - bottom two TX4 are keymat only | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | BE CAREFULL!! WITH THE FRIGGIN FLATCABLE | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't bend or pull it | 21:13 |
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| mgedmin | or poke holes in it | 21:14 |
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| dRbiG | does n900 has any packet filter by default? | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 21:15 |
| * Mousey thinks . o O ( iptables? ) | 21:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui you need power kernel to get netfilters | 21:16 |
| * Mousey oooohs | 21:16 | |
| dRbiG | i don't want any packet filters, i'm just having some weird problems with repositories again | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | so how will netfilters/iptables/chains help there? | 21:17 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, if the code existed within xl spread sheet cells it was written in vba and the host object instance had access to the entire model, no dcom required | 21:17 |
| dRbiG | they don't, i was thinking that if there were any they might be the problem | 21:17 |
| lcuk | :P | 21:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: it was prototyped in VBA, then ported to VB to 'obfuscate' and also speed up (though that wasn't really the point) | 21:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn this was a cute but weird application | 21:19 |
| lcuk | yeah, its not the first or last time people have stored code in a spreadsheet | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 'code' was in a hidden excel sheet, so users were copying and mailing it with their inventory list | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | or order form or whatever | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | the dcom extensions added menu points to excel, and also did several checks etc automativcally on every project file open/close/save that had such a hidden code sheet | 21:21 |
| lcuk | sneaky | 21:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the code itself had functions to reference indirect or indexed or symbolic to content of the sheets of project holding data, so the format of the data sheets was relatively free | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | like "give me the 3rd nonempty cell from left, in a row 2 below the row containing a cell with 'netto'" | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | the for loops were nested any depth and somewhat linked with the corresponding <tag> </tag> xml marks | 21:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus the icing on top was a simple treeview graphical editor to mark ranges in a sheet and then select where to insert these values to the XML tree, with which tags, attributes etc - for the coding illiterate users | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | this treeview created 'sourcecode' to the hidden code sheet | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | though obviously a subset of the full power of the language definition | 21:33 |
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| ShadowJK | ah great, my set of cheap china batteries and charger (undoubtedly highly dangerous) arrived | 21:44 |
| ShadowJK | but no n900 :( | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-(( | 21:45 |
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| trumee | guys, is it possible to set-up a static interface for usb networing in NetworkManager? | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, now I recall my boss (customer) back when even registered a few software patents on details of that XMLMaker, mentioning me as the original author :-D | 21:46 |
| trumee | i am stuck in a hotel with a very poor wifi connection. only wifi on laptop works and so want to connect N900 via usb networking | 21:46 |
| * ShadowJK is tempted to disassemble one of these batteries instead | 21:47 | |
| trumee | added issue is that network manager works on my opensuse 11.3 pc but traditional networking is giving me pain. | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | whf is wifi on N900 not working while wifi on laptop does? | 21:47 |
| ShadowJK | presumably laptop has bigger antenna | 21:47 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: coz, the antenae in n900 is tiny compared to laptop | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 21:48 |
| trumee | so anybody understands knetworkmanager? | 21:48 |
| kthomas | yeah, but my laptop has a 6" cable to the antenna, which is a lot of attenuation. | 21:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I found N900 wlan being more sensitive than most of the wlan sticks and builtin of laptops I ever used | 21:48 |
| trumee | ifconfig shows n900 interface here. but i dont know how to set it up in knetworkmanager | 21:48 |
| kthomas | plus the manufacturer randomly cut the cable length... | 21:49 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i have n900 and laptop sitting side by side. N900 simply drops the connection whereas laptop is chugging along | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: knetmanager should be really simple | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dict knete | 21:50 |
| infobot | could not find definition for knete | 21:50 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: where do setup a static interface, which one do i select wired/wireless/mobile broadband/vpn/dsl ? | 21:50 |
| kthomas | trumee, the chipset in your laptop is going to be many decibles more sensitive, and perform better with respect to noise interference | 21:50 |
| kthomas | mostly due to component size | 21:51 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i cant find any place to specify n900 interface (and also cant see eth0 and eth1 either) | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: config connections -> the tabs are for wireless, GPRS, DSL, ethernet... | 21:52 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: yes, which one do i select amongst these? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | for wireless? obviously wireless | 21:53 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: does usb networking fall under wireless? | 21:53 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Host_configuration_on_Debian_Lenny | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, for sure not | 21:54 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: so where do i set static ip for /dev/n900 ? | 21:54 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i dont have /etc/network/interfaces on opensuse. although even if it was there knetworkmanager wouldnt see it | 21:55 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: my best guess is that i need "Wired" connection, but there is no way to find out whether knetworkmanager is setting /dev/eth0 (actual wired connection) or /dev/n900 | 21:56 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: any suggestions? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, actually not. I managed this via yast-networkcards, and after that knetworkmanager was aware of the 'nic' | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | but what you need isn't a nic for N900 aiui | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | you want PC to be a nic *to* N900 | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | or a router actually | 21:59 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: so i need to add the N900 nic in yast and then knetwork manager will see it? | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I honestly doubt this can be configured via knetworkmanager | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: yes, then you can access internet via N900 GPRS | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | by simply selecting it in knetworkmanager | 22:01 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: http://dragly.org/2010/07/18/connect-to-your-n900-while-developing-via-usb/ doesnt work for me | 22:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | trumee: sorry, I've never bothered to do this with N900, just have a few scripts and experience in connecting Freerunner to internet via USB networking, using laptop as router/NAT | 22:02 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: no worries | 22:03 |
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| vdv | is there any keyboard shortcut to show apps menu? | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | check out mhd | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/repo.html | 22:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Modified_Hildon_Desktop, also keyboard-shortcuts - A package that adds keyboard shortcuts for launching applications. | 22:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav -> 2 : Go to launcher. | 22:09 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, mhd crashes my device a lot, at least with thp's patches | 22:11 |
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| MohammadAG51 | could be the alt+tab | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever thp patches might be | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhd works like a charm here | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | * [thp] (~thp@Maemo/community/contributor/thp): Thomas Perl | 22:13 |
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| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 22:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I suppose he didn't patch perl into HD? | 22:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so it's nice to know who's thp, but I still got nfc what's thp patches | 22:17 |
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| VladNistor | hello everyone! i'm trying to repartition my flash with "Solution #6: Custom repartitioning from a linux PC" from http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash | 22:25 |
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| VladNistor | when I run ~/n900-rescue-initrd$ rpm2cpio nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm | cpio -vid it says http://pastebin.com/3KNSzu6q | 22:26 |
| VladNistor | basically, permission denied | 22:26 |
| VladNistor | I'm on Ubuntu 10.10 | 22:26 |
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| VladNistor | should I just go sudo!! ? | 22:27 |
| yacc | Wondering, does the wifi hotspot app support infrastructure mode, or only adhoc wlan connections? | 22:27 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: solved it. ifconfig n900 192.168.2.4 | 22:35 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: simple solution, no messing about with knetworkmanager | 22:35 |
| VladNistor | yacc, Mobile hotspot is adhoc as far as I can tell, just ran it and connected from the laptop | 22:36 |
| yacc | VladNistor, as I have no readily available laptop, and mobile hotspot does not want to work, I just wondered if it's worth the bother, ... | 22:37 |
| yacc | ;) | 22:37 |
| VladNistor | i dunno, i had to wait for it to connect to the gprs before it worked :) | 22:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | trumee: :nod: that's the simple part though | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | VladNistor: what are you tying to do? | 22:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just increase size of /home partition? | 22:41 |
| VladNistor | well decrease the mydocs partition and make 1-2 ext4 ones | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | VladNistor: check http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2nd box | 22:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | should give you a few ideas | 22:43 |
| VladNistor | thanks DocScrutinizer | 22:44 |
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| VladNistor | lol, i ended up using the meego wiki as the commands in the maemo one seem to be incomplete... shrinking /dev/sdb1 :) | 22:59 |
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| yacc | I wonder what the use of libdvdread is for a device like the N900, ... | 23:08 |
| ni1s | yacc, playing dvd images? | 23:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | playing DVDs even? | 23:18 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders idly if libdvdreadmwill obsolete libdecss | 23:19 | |
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| ShadowJK | i think it does | 23:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | err libdvdcss is the correct name | 23:22 |
| VladNistor | awesome, i got Input/output error during write on /dev/sdb while resizing the vfat partition... | 23:22 |
| VladNistor | and then Invalid argument during seek for write on /dev/sdb | 23:22 |
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| VladNistor | good thing I saved most of my data... | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG51: couuld you try hooking up your external drive to N900 and playback a video DVD? | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | VladNistor: err, on sdb aka eMMC? that's not exactly a good thing to have IO errors there | 23:24 |
| VladNistor | yeah DocScrutinizer51, on there while using gparted. but I had it chack the partition afterwards and it says it's ok | 23:25 |
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| MohammadAG | muhahaha http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=839508#post839508 | 23:26 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, hmm, why does it have to be a video DVD? Normal DVDs work | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | how do I play a DVD though, I doubt the internal media player plays them | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: I wanna know if decss works | 23:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | you'd think a contact of ubuntu and meego maintainer and whatnot might have heard of (1) strings and (1) grep and google | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~lart busybox | 23:32 |
| * infobot takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down busybox's throat until busybox puts on 150lbs | 23:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~messybox | 23:32 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, that's what i was thinking (ubuntu guy) | 23:33 |
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| * MohammadAG51 used grep | 23:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also I never heard of motd being hardcoded to a shell startup | 23:33 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer51, how do I actually play the DVD? | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | meh, I never did - on any PC | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'd guess mplayer or vlc or similar might do it | 23:34 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 23:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | lo | 23:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG51: maybe you find an app that rdepends on libdvdread ;-) | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | damn freenode lag | 23:39 |
| MohammadAG | I freaking hate freenode, other servers don't lag, at all | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: try a different server? | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | good, it cycled me to the next server | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | 0.6s lag | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | 0.2, nice, it was 1000+ | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | I was replying to the povbot logs | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | eeeew | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, freenode's DNS based 'load balancing' is quite random and usually nonsense for me. I mean what's the use of connecting to a freenode server 1000s of miles away while the nearest one is close enough to shout over | 23:50 |
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| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: that's how DNS works | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | DNS hierarchy isn't exactly duplicating any geographical or backbone topoligy | 23:51 |
| luke-jr_ | at least for IPv4 | 23:51 |
| luke-jr_ | I think IPv6 is supposed to fix that a bit | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: yep, well understood | 23:51 |
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| VladNistor | yay, resize worked the second time :D | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh | 23:52 |
| MohammadAG | it spins! | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | catweazle: "move the tape along the he | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | head" | 23:53 |
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| MohammadAG | nice, stuck in a_suspend | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | should've used the proper hub | 23:56 |
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