IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-10-05

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`Francesca_Lucchhow do i  ake screen shots in n900?00:03
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merlincoreythere's an app for that, too00:04
merlincoreyI've always wanted to say that in a non-i-zone00:04
merlincoreybut yeah there's an app that does screenshots/screencasting00:04
SpeedEvilgenerally a good thing to install00:05
merlincoreyyeah I like that one - odd that it adds a little meter AND does screenshotting but hey :P00:05
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DocScrutinizera mandatory thing to install00:12
Venemois it possible to install the Diablo SDK alongside the Fremantle one?00:14
timeless_mbpVenemo: using scratchbox?00:16
DocScrutinizeryacc: sounds are also played for loss/establishing of connectivity00:16
Venemotimeless_mbp: yes, for now00:17
DocScrutinizerthen a warning sound is played for bat-low notifications00:17
timeless_mbpVenemo:  basically you create a distinct scratchbox for each sdk00:17
timeless_mbpwell, one for x86-diablo, one for arm-diablo, one for x86-fremantle, one for arm-fremantle00:17
timeless_mbpyou just switch between them...00:17
Venemotimeless_mbp: yes, that much I know00:18
Venemotimeless_mbp: the question is, where do I get the packages for the Diablo SDK?00:19
Venemotimeless_mbp: there's no download link on
luke-jr_I need an app that does an alarm every N hours, allowing me to reset it early00:19
luke-jr_any ideas?00:19
timeless_mbp ?00:19
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Venemotimeless_mbp: k, thanks00:20
DocScrutinizeryacc: first you could try "for f in /usr/share/sounds/*; do echo $f; aplay $f; sleep 1; done" and find out which sound exactly it was that pestered you00:21
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DocScrutinizer51luke-jr_: alarmed?00:27
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* lardman hates writing GUI code00:52
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johnsqlardman: it is easy text box and let enter the commands.00:55
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lardmanif only00:55
lardmantrying to get my head around pyqt00:55
Chanipyqt ftw :)00:56
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lardmancan you add a layout to a layout? Seems not, quite confusing coming from GTK+00:57
CarnequeHey all, anyone know if MeBook reads pdf files?00:57
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lardmanhmm, seems rather than being able to group together widgets in H or V Boxes, one needs to generate a GridLayout and set the exact positions01:02
lardmanshame that01:02
Chanilardman: yes you can add a layout to a layout.01:03
Chaniqt is very anti-exact-positions ;)01:03
lardmanoh right01:04
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lardmanwell that is good, I wonder why my IDE was moaning at me01:04
Chaniit should be something like layout1.addLayout(layout2)01:04
Chanioh, IDEs..01:04
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lardmanyeah that was what I was doing01:04
Chanilardman: qt designer?01:04
lardmannah, am using Spyder01:04
lardmanis PyQT01:04
Chanioh. never heard of it01:04
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* Chani makes a note01:04
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lardmannor me, just wanted something that worked under Windows and did completion01:05
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lardmanis a bit like MATLAB, which is nice for me01:05
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lardmanah, I think I need to s/set/add01:06
Chanilardman: btw, #qt is a good channel for questions like that :)01:06
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lardmanChani: yeah, I was more just thinking out loud, but I guess I should head there and ask if I have problems01:07
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lardmanooo! I'm happy, I have a GUI finally working (under Windows at least, but it's a start)01:09
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nuovodnahi, i receive this error with "apt-get dist-upgrade" : pymaemo-optify but is not going to be installed01:10
lardmanI always find it's that effort to get the first UI up and running that is the worst, then it's just modification01:10
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nuovodnabut pymaemo-optify is installed (extras-devel active)01:10
* lardman likes algorithms, not presentation01:10
* Chani usually starts by modifying an existing app ;)01:10
lardmanChani: yeah I was considering that, but thought (foolishly) that it would be quicker to write from scratch than dig out something similar01:11
Chanipyqt + .ui files dynamically loaded = stupidly easy UI prototypes01:11
lardmannot so fond of .ui files tbh01:12
lardmanI'd prefer to see the code01:12
Chanieh.. depends on the situation01:12
lardmanand I also don't much like QT Designer01:12
pupniktell me of your homeworld, usul01:12
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lardmanit's a bit half-hearted in terms of UI 0design - can't drag stuff around and resize, hard to add items to layouts or other widgets, etc01:13
Chanifor fairly straightforward, static UIs (say, a config dialog or a toy app) ui files are much easier and maintainable. for a more complex, dynamic UI you end up wanting code.  ...or you can use both :)01:13
lardmansure, I just don't see much time saved using it really01:13
Chanilardman: I never had problems dragging things around... I tend to only resize the main dialog though, everything else follows its layout and if it's not the right size then I didn't do the layout right ;)01:14
lardmanfor me perhaps, but not next time round, etc01:14
lardmanre layouts - that may be my failing there, the only GUI design tool I've used is the dreaded VB, which sets absolute positions and sizes, so is a bit hard to get away from that thinking01:15
lardmancan't argue that VB produces code quickly though ;)01:15
Chanidesigner's layouting can be a bit fiddly at times, though. I never tought the draggable layouts, I always right-click a widget to set its layout01:15
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infobotChani meant: designer's layouting can be a bit fiddly at times, though. I never touch the draggable layouts, I always right-click a widget to set its layout01:16
Chaniaand I really need sleep :P01:16
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lardmanIf I have widgets in the UI already, I had all sorts of troubles trying to insert a layout into iirc a QGroupBox widget01:16
lardmanas the widget was 2 pixels high and wouldn't let me insert anything01:17
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lardmanbut again that may be my fault, as perhaps I needed to wrap something in a layout, or not01:17
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lardmanshame the little tree diagram showing widgets and layouts doesn't allow dragging and dropping of the various bits and bobs to change things when it's hard to do in the graphical representation01:18
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lardmanChani: night night, thanks for the help :)01:22
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luke-jr_DocScrutinizer51: is that an app?01:22
DocScrutinizerthough not for debian afaik01:23
DocScrutinizeror gebtoo01:23
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luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: thinking for Maemo atm01:28
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lcuk2DocScrutinizer, you got an internal schematic of n900?01:31
lcuk2around the stylus slot especially01:31
DocScrutinizererr, sorry?01:31
lardmanwhere's qwerty when you need him? ;)01:32
DocScrutinizerwhat's an internal schematic?01:32
lardmanlcuk2: I have one, but not handy, can send it to you tomorrow - schematic iirc and pics01:32
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lcuk2lardman, :) awesome, thanks01:32
lcuk2something appears to have been forced into it01:33
lcuk2and its broken01:33
DocScrutinizer(i got friggin transition failures with mhd though :-( No fun)01:33
lcuk2can get a stylus in, but not out01:33
lardmanI've got the disassembly guide thing which should show the hw layout01:33
lardmanotoh a quick search of e.g. rapidshare might get you the pdf this evening01:33
DocScrutinizerlcuk2: why don't you ask for what you really need?01:34
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, transition failures?01:34
DocScrutinizerlardman: all this is easily available and well documented where to get it01:34
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, uninstall mhd, install my modified desktop, then install matan's01:35
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MohammadAG51you're probably missing pr1.2 libs01:35
MohammadAG51ignore that, don't install mine, you're on 1.1.101:36
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: weird shit. dialer refuses to change screen orientation until I click on the menu and select (e.g.?) "rotation". This very moment it rotates accordingly and then is sticky there again01:36
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, did you reboot after installation?01:36
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: nope, clean PR1.2 here01:36
DocScrutinizererr, good call01:36
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, btw, matan's deb only has the hildon-desktop binary01:37
MohammadAG51you need the new transitions.ini01:37
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DocScrutinizeranyway efect was weird, transitions/screen-rotation only took place when opening a new window01:38
MohammadAG51yeah, happens here sometimes01:38
MohammadAG51uninstall mhd, install that, then install mhd01:38
MohammadAG51or just extract transitions.ini01:38
lcuk2based on your photos here01:38
* MohammadAG51 downgrades lcuk201:38
DocScrutinizermeh, why isn't that in the dependen... errr it's a .deb :-S01:38
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lcuk2the circled highlight on my device has a metal tab sticking out01:39
MohammadAG51lcuk2, can't you bend it back in?01:39
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lcuk2i might be able to now I have seen photos01:40
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lardmannighty night MohammadAG5101:42
lardmanhey SpeedEvil01:42
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babsher_are there any minimal distributions of maemo out there. Like ones with not GUI01:44
DocScrutinizerdamn DSL outage01:44
DocScrutinizerlcuk2: what exactly is your question?01:45
wmaronebabsher_: not really, since there are no other distributions of Maemo01:45
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DocScrutinizerI looked at the photos, but don't really understand your problem01:45
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babsher_I have heard of people building there own images01:45
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lcuk2DocScrutinizer, dont fret :) I knew you had taken photos of the internals of n90001:46
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wmaronesure, but they cannot redistribute them01:46
lcuk2i needed to see one from around the stylus hole01:46
babsher_ok well that is fine01:46
babsher_How would you go about doing that then.01:46
DocScrutinizerlcuk2: all the photos I took are on that page you referred to01:46
babsher_can you do it with scratch box01:46
DocScrutinizerin original resolution and all01:47
lcuk2DocScrutinizer, yes and I found that after I spoke in here.01:47
lardmanbabsher_: what sort of image do you want to create?01:47
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babsher_well i just want a shell with python01:47
lcuk2babsher_, no ui?01:48
babsher_ya no ui01:48
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lardmanmight be worth looking at the Meego image builder then01:48
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lardmanotherwise there's OE01:48
babsher_i have messed around with oe a bit01:49
babsher_i never got it to compile though01:49
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lardmanbabsher_: Meego is more up to date01:49
babsher_do you have a link01:49
lardmanand afaiu the build process, quite similar01:49
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lardmanThere's a link there for Meego Image Creator, which is what you will want01:51
babsher_ok i found it01:51
babsher_thanks for the help!01:51
lardmannp, I hope it will do what you need01:51
babsher_looks like it is for fedora01:52
lardmanbuild system? Yeah01:52
lardmanchroot so Stskeeps suggests01:52
babsher_i am running ubuntu. maybe i could get a fedora virtual machine01:53
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lardmanping Stskeeps tomorrow01:53
DocScrutinizerlcuk: so what's your problem? can't pull out stylus?01:54
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: if that's your problem, it most probably isn't caused by the spring you marked in your picture01:56
lardmanI do hate the way the PyQt docs are all repros of the C++ stuff01:56
lardmanstill using C++ code to boot01:57
wmaronepandaboard requires removal of 28 resistors and jumpering of 28 connections to activate the parallel display lines01:57
DocScrutinizerhmm, sounds fair enough01:58
DocScrutinizerafter all removing 0402 or 0603 isn't really an art01:58
babsher_looks like there are Debian packages, for the meego image creator01:58
lcukDocScrutinizer, i have stylus out now, but ive got a metal shard sticking out in the stylus canal01:59
lcukso i can push it in, then it gets trapped on the ledge of the stylus01:59
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DocScrutinizerweird scary FFS02:00
lcukyeah, its a bit rubbish, I cant insert tweezers to pull the shard into different pos02:00
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lcukand it just flexes when I press it02:00
DocScrutinizerI wonder though how such thing can happen02:00
DocScrutinizernah, you need to disassemble02:01
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lcukthere appears to be more of a gap now towards the body of the device02:01
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lcuklooks like it was pushed at an angle02:01
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lcuki cant' its my n0002:01
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* lardman hits the sack, night all02:05
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SpeedEvillcuk: how did that happen?02:09
SpeedEvillcuk: Oh - someone jammed it in your hole.02:09
SpeedEvilI forgot.02:09
lcukSpeedEvil, IDK put stylus back in after a couple of weeks02:09
keriothat's what she said02:10
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SpeedEvilHave you considere nokia care?02:10
lcukSpeedEvil, I have only just discovered it02:10
lcukand never heard of it before02:10
evilrobIm not figuring out how to enable google traffic in mappero. there is a tile set for it, but how do i turn it on?02:11
lcukmy stylus hole has teeth.02:11
keriofeed it bacon02:11
lcukmy n900 runs on bacon already02:11
evilrobmmm bacon02:12
lcukI replaced the BL-5J battery with BA-ON02:12
SpeedEvillcuk: Someone elsehitthesame problem02:12
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lcukhmm SpeedEvil link02:12
evilrobmappero help?02:13
SpeedEvilLook at the logs about a week to four weeks ago.02:13
lcukevilrob, not sure :$02:13
lcukkerio, - == C02:13
keriowhat's a BA-ON02:14
lcukmmmm BA-ON02:14
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keriowe gotta make a bacon-cell battery02:14
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evilrobthats the only app i really want but dont have.  i have more than i want otherwise02:15
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kerioa bacon app?02:15
lcukevilrob, search help docs02:15
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evilrobcant now. driving.02:16
lcukkerio, bacon-cells are nearly as awesome as alcohol powered fuel cells02:16
keriobut that would make the bacon-powered battery a perpetual motion machine02:16
lcuki do like the idea of the BA-ON battery02:16
SpeedEvilFound a few pogo-pins.02:17
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lcukSpeedEvil, still curious about the stylus issue02:18
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lcukjohnxI let someone else hold it to give me directions in the car, they took the stylus out, checked directions, jammed the stylus back in at an angle and now the stylus doesn't want to fit in02:19
lcukholy crap johnx, snap!02:19
lcukthanks for the tip SpeedEvil02:20
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evilrobit appears mappero has no help, but a thread02:24
SpeedEvillcuk: It was someone that passed the n900 to someont to look at something, and they jammed trhe stylus in wrong02:24
lcukyes I found it02:25
SpeedEvilyeah. I sometimes fail at actually reading the words on the screen.02:25
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pupniki love this omap3 portable with 4200mAh battery02:25
pupnikit just needs to get built02:25
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lcukpupnik, I would like something with uptime calculated in months even with always on? :D02:26
lcukhow long do eink devices last?02:27
SpeedEvilWell - I have got a battery that will do about a month.02:28
SpeedEvilAnd it is portable - sort-of.02:28
ShadowJKshoulder strap?02:28
SpeedEvilCar battery.02:28
* SpeedEvil sighs.02:28
ShadowJKbackpack then02:28
SpeedEvilI wish mechanical prototyping was easier.02:28
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SpeedEvilI want to make a little thing that is maybe the same size as the n900, you drop it on the floor, and then step on it 100 times to get enough charge to recharge the phone.02:29
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ShadowJKmy new sim-issue fix attempt: padding everywhere EXCEPT sim bay02:36
kthomas_vhI'll try that :)02:37
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ShadowJKactually im just padding one side of battery bay right now02:42
ShadowJKto elevate battery away from sim holder02:42
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pupniklcuk: unfortunately the market is not aligned with my tastes in portables.  1000-1500mAh batteries with omap3 class SOCs are about 3x too small for me.  I want a real full-day and that means 3000+ mAh02:45
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pupnikthere are a few guys who agree with my priorities in terms of power vs battery, and that's the openpandora guys02:46
* ShadowJK is using 2400mAh battery with n900 and it's not enough for comfortably streaming music during a day at work02:48
jaskao.O? theres a larger battery for n900? where?02:49
ShadowJKmugen power02:49
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jaskahmm, i wonder if i can get them in .fi somehow02:50
ShadowJKthey ship worldwide02:50
ShadowJKif you have a cc02:51
jaskai presume thatd require a credit card02:51
SpeedEvilI've been pondering making a backup pack.02:51
ShadowJKor paypal02:51
pupnikwhy not make a n901 with 1500mAh battery, n810 speakers and a 4-row keyboard...02:52
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loufoque_what is the name of the N900 successor and where can I find info about it?02:52
lcukSpeedEvil, make a magazine that can take BJ-4L02:52
ShadowJKThere is no info about a successor02:52
lcukthen you load that into n90002:52
ds3much rather have the old 800 style w/o the keyboard. just a handful of buttons02:53
DocScrutinizerpupnik: simple answer? Making hw is fsckng expensive02:53
luke-jr_ShadowJK: liar :P02:54
luke-jr_loufoque_: IIRC engadget had a teardown02:54
ShadowJKluke-jr, there are rumours and speculation, sure02:54
FIQ|n900i prefer having a keyboard than not having it02:54
lcukds3, everyone has their own02:54
loufoque_lcuk: i thought they said it would be out very soon02:54
lcukI would rather just run same apps on all of them02:54
ShadowJKluke-jr, and didnt that turn out to be e7 or c6-01 or something?02:54
loufoque_nokia N9 i think it was called02:54
lcukds3, interested to see how well liqbase would run on iphone hardware for instance02:55
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ds3lcuk:L yes02:55
ds3s/L //02:55
infobotds3 meant: lcuk:yes02:55
FIQ|n9004-row-keyb :D02:55
pupnikDocScrutinizer: thanks, good answer02:55
luke-jr_pfft 402:55
lcukfor people like pupnik who like the pandora, I would like same things there02:56
luke-jr_I want at least 602:56
ds3keyboard is nice but buttons are more usable02:56
luke-jr_ds3: nonsense02:56
luke-jr_touchscreen can replace buttons easily02:56
FIQ|n9006 would be useful indeed if done right on such a small device02:56
ds3keep the 5Mpixel camera but put it back on that pop out thing02:56
lcukmy pocket loox had foot buttons like the n80002:56
DocScrutinizerpupnik: molds for a 3 parts case are ~100k$02:56
ds3luke-jr: screen is too small for that02:56
luke-jr_FIQ|n900: half the problem with N900 is that it's too effing small02:56
ds3I sorely miss teh D-pad02:57
FIQ|n900as long as it fits in the pocket02:57
luke-jr_FIQ|n900: C760 fit in my pocket02:57
FIQ|n900and has phone+linux functionalty02:57
luke-jr_and it was 2x the side of N81002:57
FIQ|n900i'm happy02:57
jaskait probably wont fit in my old htc-p4350 belt case with that tho02:57
DocScrutinizerpupnik: then you need keyboard, PCB (which never is right on first 3 takes), FCC cert (another 100k) etc etc02:57
pupnikDocScrutinizer: look at all the 'silly looking' plastic around the n900 battery... do you think a bigger one would have been possible?02:57
FIQ|n900that was a big pocket02:57
lcukthe N8 would be cool to run on02:57
ds3luke-jr_: as in the Z?02:58
lcukas would the n9702:58
luke-jr_ds3: yes02:58
DocScrutinizerpupnik: nope, not significantly. Most of that silly looking plastic actually has a function02:58
luke-jr_N810 and N900 fit in my pocket and had room to spare for other stuff02:58
luke-jr_which is nice, but not as nice as a quality handheld02:58
ds3round up funding, let's build one :D02:58
* ShadowJK remembers having N810, cellphone and gps receiver in one pocket02:59
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jaskahmm, need to look into finding that 2400mAh bat in .fi tomorrow.. its 3 in the morning :D02:59
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: cargopants02:59
luke-jr_ds3: as I've said many a time, whoever makes a handheld fitting my needs gets my business (~$800)02:59
jaskabeing a large person with large pockets helps.. used to carry a 8.9" display laptop02:59
ds3luke-jr: only problem is NRE's are > 20x that :(03:00
luke-jr_IMO, a handheld should fit comfortably in a shirt pocket03:00
ds3making it isn't that hard03:00
luke-jr_N900 is so small, it falls out far too easy03:00
ds3non-recurring engineering costs...basically R&D expenses03:00
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: in my jeans the pocket holds a whole 0.5L beer bottle, though it's not really comfortable - and looks somewhat err obscene03:00
wmaroneshirt pocket... for electronic devices?03:00
luke-jr_ds3: also, it doesn't need to include software ;)03:01
luke-jr_wmarone: why not?03:01
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wmaroneisn't that where your pens go? ;)03:01
pupnikwhat's your ideal tablet/phone screen size?03:01
luke-jr_wmarone: pens? for what?03:01
ds3luke-jr: I am not including software costs03:01
luke-jr_pupnik: between 4" and 5"03:01
pupniksame here luke-jr_03:01
ds3not like there are suitable software floating around :/03:01
luke-jr_ds3: I'd probably just run Gentoo :P03:01
ds3luke-jr: I just happen to have a 4.8" LCD....03:01
jaskahmm, jeans back pocket easily holds 1.5 liter bottle :)03:02
DocScrutinizerpupnik: 5'03:02
pupnikall the older folks in my area think n900 screen is *WAYYY* too small and high DPI03:02
jaskaalbeit one cant sit when its there03:02
ds3the outdoor visible LCD is quite nice03:02
wmaronehigh dpi can be accounted for, though I would like a larger physical screen03:02
* b-man_ wonders what luke-jr_ would do without Gentoo :)03:03
wmarone(with a corresponding resolution increase)03:03
pupniktry switching between n800/n810 and n900  - and back again... see how the experience feels03:03
DocScrutinizerwell, a lot of people here would have preferred N810 form factor for N900, but alas the N900 is 'somehwat' designed for mass market03:03
ShadowJKmeanwhile, market today makes N810 look more uptodate than N900, for form-factor :)03:04
DocScrutinizeryeah :-P03:04
luke-jr_b-man_: beofre Gentoo I used LFS03:04
luke-jr_pupnik: high DPI never hurts. definitely too small tho03:04
DocScrutinizerpupnik: doing that frequently03:05
luke-jr_ShadowJK: N810 also has a 4G version :P03:05
DocScrutinizeryeah sure, luke-jr_03:05
ShadowJKi dont think it actually would work with my wimax though :)03:06
pupnikDocScrutinizer: for me, going back to the N810 screen always causes this "aah, relief!" feeling03:06
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DocScrutinizerthe weird feeling as if the screen is 4 times as large03:06
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DocScrutinizerand also I like the N810 kbd better, completely contrasting common sense03:07
ShadowJKwell, the bigger and more keys are nicer03:08
DocScrutinizerwell, the symbols mapping is weird03:08
ShadowJKbut the shape and material of n900 keys are better03:08
luke-jr_they are?03:10
pupnikoh much03:10
luke-jr_oh well03:11
pupnikthe higher curve, plus the better defined click-point makes typing much better03:11
luke-jr_nothing compares to C760 :P03:11
ShadowJKmostly I like N810 keyboard because it takes less than average 2 keypresses per char to enter an ip03:11
luke-jr_to enter IPs, I tend to enter numbers, then go back and add .03:11
pupnikjust take those n900 sized keys and give me a full laptop keyboard layout :)03:11
pupnik6 rows :P03:12
nox-zaurus :)03:12
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luke-jr_N900's small keys wouldn't be so bad if they were more distant :p03:12
nox-actually i usually only have problems with that when having to press two adjacent ones at once03:13
luke-jr_nox-: not typing one-handed?03:13
luke-jr_that is, using one hand to hold it and type03:13
luke-jr_(eg, when driving)03:14
nox-hm true i rarely do that...03:14
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ShadowJKyou could steer with your knee03:14
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pupnikwell if you kept the n900 size keys, you could fit a full freakin laptop keyboard into the n810 case03:17
pupnikman, i wish we could manufacture stuff without these moulds03:17
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pupnika spray-plastic printer or smth :/03:18
DocScrutinizercompletely off topic: what's the name of our solar system, our sun, our earth? I mean, you got (maybe) a star/sun/system called Aldebaran, and it might have planets that are usually called Aldebaran-1, *-2, *-3 etc. So is our Earth called Sol-3, or maybe our sun is called Earth? or what?03:18
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: IIRC, the name Sol is unofficial and just popular scifi :/03:19
luke-jr_and names are what people call things03:19
DocScrutinizeryeah, so what is our system called in a map of the galaxy?03:20
luke-jr_maybe that's where "Sol" came from :o03:20
luke-jr_could be Central or something tho since the universe orbits Earth03:21
babsher_terran system?03:21
babsher_or that is what it is in star trek03:21
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ShadowJKsol is more sensible than terran system03:22
DocScrutinizeryeah, probably our sun's name is Sol Terrae03:22
DocScrutinizersounds odd03:22
luke-jr_at least Sol, by popular usage03:22
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DocScrutinizerI prefer to think I'm living on Sol-303:22
luke-jr_unlike people, the sun has no free will to decide what it wants to be called :P03:23
pupnik  << this is exactly what waiting for openpandora feels like :)03:23
luke-jr_completely off-topic: why do people feel the need to subject everyone else to their national laws?03:23
ShadowJK"The Sun is currently traveling through the Local Interstellar Cloud in the Local Bubble zone, within the inner rim of the Orion Arm of the Milky Way galaxy."03:24
ShadowJKit's all pretty sun-centric :)03:24
DocScrutinizersun==Sol, hmm03:24
ShadowJKI imagine they'll figure out the naming when ambiguity starts beoming and issue03:24
luke-jr_currently the entire human population could fit in the state of Texas comfortably, so why couldn't we have a few thousand nations which citizens all agree with (to a reasonable extent) their own nations' laws?03:24
luke-jr_eg, why have competing political parties when the country can just be split in two direcitons?03:25
luke-jr_and why do people try to invent an "international law" to force their rules on other nations?03:25
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DocScrutinizerwhy have nations at all?03:26
luke-jr_DocScrutinizer: because anarchy is inherently flawed?03:26
DocScrutinizerhmm, really?03:26
luke-jr_people are naturally evil03:26
DocScrutinizerand some of those goven and rule my life :-S03:27
pupnikthat's also called "the hobbsian myth"03:27
luke-jr_anarchy could only remotely work if people were naturally good03:27
ShadowJK"Its formal name in the English language is, per the International Astronomical Union, the Sun (capitalized as a proper noun).[172]  The Latin  name Sol, for the Sun god of the same name, pronounced /ˈsɒl/ (rhyming with doll) in English, is widely known but not common in general English language use; the adjectival form is the related word solar.[173][174]  "Sol" is, however, the modern word for "Sun" in many other languages"03:27
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: :-))03:28
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* luke-jr_ votes to use Sol03:29
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luke-jr_on another off-topic, is there a simple way to package fonts for Maemo?03:29
FIQ|n900sv-sun=sol :d03:29
luke-jr_eg, without a whole cross-compiler setup03:30
* FIQ|n900 wants dejavu sans mono as a font possible to chose in various menus, including xchat03:30
wmarone800x480 at less than 7" is a pain to find in a non-raw-panel setup :/03:31
luke-jr_Dejavu isn't free03:32
luke-jr_but I would like my Console font03:32
FIQ|n900it isn't?03:33
luke-jr_not completely03:33
ShadowJKoh wow, I switched xchat to droid sans mono03:33
ShadowJKand it's perfectly readable at size 803:33
luke-jr_Dejavu is "free" like Microsoft's "free" licneses, IMO03:33
FIQ|n900droid sans mono is nice03:33
FIQ|n900but i prefer dejavu03:33
luke-jr_I prefer Console.03:33
luke-jr_which is bitmap, but nice03:34
FIQ|n900isn't console courier new?03:34
luke-jr_afaik it was homegrown for KDE 303:34
luke-jr_and dropped with KDE 403:34
luke-jr_I've added a number of characters to my local copy03:34
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nettworkerCan I send sms via ssh?03:41
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nettworkerpupnik: How?03:46
pupnikgo search... fmms or smth03:47
nettworkerfmms is for mms03:47
ShadowJKfmms is for sending and receiving mms03:47
nettworkerI want to send a SMS03:47
nettworkerVia ssh03:48
nettworkerI saw the sms package, and I think that would be nice03:48
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ieatlintthere's instructions on how to do it on that page (dbus is your best option)03:49
DocScrutinizeroh, ieatlint was faster :-D03:50
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DocScrutinizerraster: ?? whats up?03:51
rasterDocScrutinizer: dook!03:51
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nettworkerDocScrutinizer: I am too dumb to do that xD03:52
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DocScrutinizernettworker: if I understand correctly, you'll get where you want, by entering: pnatd<CR>at<CR>at+cmgf=1<CR>at+cmgs="+4991155500011"<CR>this is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works<^V><^V><^C>03:59
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: nettworker: if I understand correctly, you'll get what you want, by entering: pnatd<CR>at<CR>at+cmgf=1<CR>at+cmgs="+4991155500011"<CR>this is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works<^V><^V><^C>04:00
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FIQ|n900that was some line noise D:04:02
DocScrutinizeror even >> echo -e 'at\rat+cmgf=1\rat+cmgs="+4991155500011"\rthis is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works\026\026' | pnatd04:02
DocScrutinizer( s/<^V>/<^Z>/  in line 2 above)04:03
SpeedEvilthat doesn't work04:03
SpeedEvilpnatd doesn't do SMS04:03
DocScrutinizerhmm, so why is this example code there?04:04
SpeedEviloh - sorry04:04
DocScrutinizerchild = pexpect.spawn('pnatd');  child.send('at+cmgs="+XXXXXXX"\r');04:04
* FIQ|n900 wants a phonenumber04:05
DocScrutinizerfor what?04:05
FIQ|n900would be pretty useless but still. D:04:06
DocScrutinizerdefine please04:06
FIQ|n900oh, nothing04:06
FIQ|n900lol luke-jr04:07
DocScrutinizernah, no lol, perfectly ok, basically04:07
nettworker~/MyDocs $ pnatd <CR>at<CR>at+cmgf=1<CR>at+cmgs="+4799411160"<CR>this is a SMS to you, and I dunno if it works<^V><^Z><^C>04:07
infobotthat's too long, nettworker04:07
nettworker-sh: syntax error: redirection unexpected04:07
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* DocScrutinizer sighs04:08
ShadowJKyou're supposed to replace <cr> with pressing enter04:08
FIQ|n900infobot tried to parse it as a factoid :D04:08
DocScrutinizerand ^Z by control+"Z"04:09
DocScrutinizerand ^V is just wrong (lookup error in 'man ascii')04:09
luke-jr_I bet ^Z is wrong too04:10
luke-jr_probably ^C too04:10
ieatlintor just copy one of the 3 scripts on that wiki page and run it using python...04:10
luke-jr_probably you just want ^D at the ned04:10
ShadowJKpnatd expects a real terminal04:10
FIQ|n900man ascii=ascii table04:10
DocScrutinizerprobably child.send(chr(26)); isn't exactly ETX04:10
ShadowJKand doesnt care about ^D04:11
nettworkerOh fuck this, I use bluetooth04:11
* FIQ|n900 didn't know that04:11
ShadowJKit expects modem hangup or sth04:11
ieatlintthe script looks simple and effective04:11
nettworkerDo I have to edit the script?04:12
nettworkerOr just run?04:12
nettworkerAnd do my phone have phyton?04:12
ieatlintjust run it04:12
ieatlintand it will tell you how to use it04:12
DocScrutinizernettworker: you need to replace XXXXXXXX with your dest tel#04:12
DocScrutinizerno it wont04:13
ieatlintapparently it takes two command line arguments, so for instance to send a message to "999", "python 999 'test message'"04:13
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: the has a help print message if run with no arguments04:13
DocScrutinizerpffft, maybe the first or 3rd one04:13
DocScrutinizernot the 14 line one starting with import pexpect04:14
DocScrutinizerwhich obviously is the one I was referring to04:14
ieatlintnah, the top one using qtmobility and calling itself ssms.py04:14
DocScrutinizermeh, what am I doing here?04:15
ieatlintnot drinking enough04:15
DocScrutinizeryes, exactly04:15
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DocScrutinizeralas I usually have no drinks on stash at home04:15
ieatlintwtf... how'd you manage that?04:16
ieatlinthopefully .de doesn't cut off alcohol sales at night then04:16
DocScrutinizeryou bet it does04:16
ieatlint2am like here? :(04:17
ieatlintwtf time is that04:17
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DocScrutinizerbad time for searching for a drink04:18
nettworkerDocScrutinizer: Go to amsterdam! They have 420 all nigth!04:18
ieatlintheh, pot was just decriminalised here04:19
nettworkerieatlint: It is just decriminalised there too04:19
ieatlintwell, personal use amounts04:19
nettworkerOnly legal place is Portugal04:19
nettworkerieatlint: It is illegal in Amsterdam04:20
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ieatlintwhatever.. i never touch the stuff myself04:20
nettworkerIt is just acepted04:21
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nettworkerieatlint: Neither do I04:21
nettworkerI use it the same way I use alcohol04:21
nettworkerI dont inhale xD04:21
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ieatlintwell, i drink alcohol.. i do not drink pot04:22
* luke-jr_ is all for outlawing pot, alcohol, and caffeine04:22
ieatlintor inhale it, ingest it, or otherwise cause it a product of it to enter my bloodstream04:22
* doc|home is all for outlawing silly laws04:22
ieatlintluke-jr_: damn mormons04:22
babsher_is there a good tutorial out there for meego and kickstart scripts?04:22
* nettworker is all for oulawing fat, fat people, stupid food, and reffined sugar04:22
ieatlintalso, you forgot dancing on your list of things to ban04:22
nettworkerbabsher_: #meego04:23
doc|homeieatlint: and the french04:23
ieatlintnah, french is a reasonable thing to ban04:23
nettworkerluke-jr_: Horsebackriding should be banned04:23
doc|homenettworker: why not go all the way... what are horses even good for anyway?04:23
babsher_everyone at #meego is dead04:23
luke-jr_those aren't chemically addictive AFAIK04:23
ieatlintdoc|home: gelatin04:23
doc|homeieatlint: see fat04:23
nettworkerdoc|home: And you can get addicted to horses!04:24
nettworkerluke-jr_: Reffined suger is, also fat.04:24
ieatlintfat is delicious04:24
ieatlintnah, sugar is actually non-fat in itself04:24
nettworkerluke-jr_: I have never seen anyone being able to stop eating fat...04:24
luke-jr_I hate fat04:24
nettworker99% of the worlds population is addicted to fat04:24
ieatlintthis anti-bacon sentiment is alarming to me04:24
luke-jr_and being unwilling is not being unable04:24
nettworkerBan it instead of drugs04:24
luke-jr_chemical addiction != addiction04:24
nettworkerOnly a few people are addicted to drugs (and the cause of addiction is phsycologic problems, treat them, dont jail sick people)04:25
nettworkerluke-jr_: Banning drugs is like banning depression, pointless and does more harm than good.04:25
luke-jr_nettworker: not pointless04:25
luke-jr_people profit off the chemical dependency of others'04:25
* ieatlint votes we do not get into a drug discussions here04:25
ieatlintit's worse than the political ones04:26
luke-jr_and convince people to get addicted04:26
doc|homeluke-jr_: stupid people will always do stupid things, no matter what you ban04:26
luke-jr_I am starting withdrawl now, actually04:26
luke-jr_doc|home: everyone is stupid at some point04:26
doc|homeluke-jr_: and must be responsible for that themselves04:26
nettworkerluke-jr_: You can use the same arguments to ban depression as to ban drugs. Depression kills people, ruins families, makes you stop taking care of yourself, and is bad for your health. It even kills people, far more people than drugs. If you ban it less people would be depressed and less people would get harmed by it. Except jail doesnt remove psychologic problems or discourage people from getting them. They only hide them bether.04:27
luke-jr_people shouldn't have to be exposed to stuff like this04:27
luke-jr_nettworker: you can't sell depression or market it to chilren04:27
nettworkerluke-jr_: What stuff?04:27
luke-jr_nettworker: chemical addictives04:27
doc|homeluke-jr_: banning it never means they're not exposed to it. See war on drugs04:28
nettworkerluke-jr_: If you have haf a mind, you can prevent getting adicted. You cant remove drugs, if you in an ideal society could it migth be a pont. But why give the mafia the money?04:28
babsher_drugs really are not bad it is just how you use them that matters.04:28
nettworkerAnd addiction has a cause, it is not the chemical. Glue is legal, still people doesnt snort it every day. People know it is bad.04:29
luke-jr_nettworker: you can't prevent chemical addition except by avoiding consuming it04:29
ieatlintok, despite this truly interesting and productive debate, i'm going to go get some food04:29
ieatlintand maybe beer04:29
ieatlintdelicious beer04:29
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr_: WHAT? you can not sell depression? Tell that to BILD newspaper04:29
doc|homeluke-jr_: so, how is it our responsibility/right to protect idiots from themselves?04:29
nettworkerluke-jr_: I can use crystal meth once a month and not get addicted. I can smoke heroin every third day, I can do valium on a weekly basis.04:29
nettworkerluke-jr_: Limit the usage04:29
ieatlintbe sure to let us know what conclusion you guys come to on how the world should handle drugs04:30
luke-jr_doc|home: it's the government's04:30
ieatlinti'm very anxious to hear04:30
luke-jr_nettworker: moderation makes a good argument.04:30
doc|homeluke-jr_: it's not though. It's none of their business.04:30
luke-jr_doc|home: it is.04:30
nettworkerieatlint: Legalise everything, sell it at pharmacies. And educate the people. In addition you should treat psychologic problems and treat addicts.04:31
doc|homeluke-jr_: what a person does with their body is that person's responsibility. Look at the fiasco that was prohibition and is the drug war.04:31
babsher_the war on drugs is just a big jobs program04:31
luke-jr_it only turned out a fiasco for other reasons04:31
nettworkerluke-jr_: And how can I know how to moderate myself? Education, I need to be able to make an informed choice. I don't need the goverment to take that choive for me.04:31
doc|homeluke-jr_: it's a fiasco nonetheless04:31
babsher_the amount of money that the spend is gigantic04:31
luke-jr_nettworker: education takes time04:31
doc|homeluke-jr_: I say these things as a person who doesn't drink, smoke or do any drugs and things doing them is stupid.04:32
ieatlintnettworker: note that i have family members with a history of vicodin, heroin and valium addiction, an aunt and uncle who run a rehab clinic, and i live in a city filled with homeless people with addiction problems -- your arguments are invalid to me, rebutted by the reality that i see daily04:32
luke-jr_modern society introduces chemical addictives into children's diets earlier than age 404:32
nettworkerluke-jr_: Can you point to a single country that have had any luck with banning drugs?04:32
doc|homeluke-jr_: modern society? I think you mean parents04:32
luke-jr_nettworker: I can't point to a single modern country that operates responably04:33
luke-jr_doc|home: who make up modern society04:33
nettworkerieatlint: Why did they start taking the drugs in the first place?04:33
doc|homeluke-jr_: individuals, who make choices04:33
nettworkerluke-jr_: How can you ban drugs? I can think of at least 15 things in my house I could get high off...04:33
ieatlintanyway, i'm actually off to get food... tschüß04:33
luke-jr_nettworker: getting high != chemical addiction04:33
luke-jr_I'm sure there are countless ways to get high without getting addicted04:34
doc|homeluke-jr_: the thing is, what you think is responsible may be different to what I think is responsible. Why do you have the right to say what is responsible for other people?04:34
johnxsex can be addictive. let's ban it04:34
nettworkerluke-jr_: So why does someone risk getting addicted? Certanly a normal healthy teen with knowledge wouldn't get him/herself addicted to heroin.04:34
luke-jr_doc|home: government has that power because it is delegated to it by God04:35
johnxnettworker, agree on horse riding04:35
nettworkerluke-jr_: May it be that the cynical drug dealers misinforms and tries to sell stronger drugs?04:35
doc|homeluke-jr_: god? are you joking me?!04:35
nettworkerjohnx: WHat about anal sex? It is also mpre dangerous as cannabis04:35
luke-jr_nettworker: the problem is people addicted younger04:35
johnxdoc|home, no. he's trolling you :)04:35
doc|homeluke-jr_: what if I don't believe in your god? you still have a right to dictate rules to me via that government?04:35
luke-jr_doc|home: God still exists, even if fools deny it.04:35
doc|homejohnx: I've heard weirder things uttered on this network, fully believed04:36
nettworkerluke-jr_: If they sold it at a pharmacy it wouldnt be drug dealers selling it on the street and exponating people too it04:36
doc|homeluke-jr_: ooook then. I'm going to go over here now ---->04:36
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nettworkerluke-jr_: In a typical day I get offered drugs three times.04:36
luke-jr_government obtains its power from God, and has a duty to recognize Him as king04:36
johnxluke-jr, you misspelled "flying spaghetti monster" as "God". It's funny 'cause you seem to care a lot about grammar and spelling04:36
luke-jr_my baby is crying. DLH to the rescue04:37
johnxnettworker, probably we should just simplify it as 'any act or substance that can alter moods'04:37
nettworkerjohnx: That is the law in Norway. They can with the law, seize water if it gets sent over the border.04:38
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doc|homenettworker: meh, in most countries they just change the laws if they want to do such things.04:38
johnxI can just imagine the careful legalese that allows normal weather patterns to cross Norway's borders :)04:39
DocScrutinizerjohnx: damn this definition, that'll include just about everything, at least for me04:39
nettworkerWhy cant you see that too legalise everything would make the problem smaler+04:39
nettworkerAll the money could go to rehab04:39
johnxDocScrutinizer, communicating is probably in the list as well04:39
nettworkerWe would have rehab for every third inhabitant. We could rehab people before they got a drug problem!04:40
johnxare you advocating pro-active mental healthcare? what are you, some kinda pinko hippy?04:40
DocScrutinizernettworker: I fully support your point04:41
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nettworkerjohnx: Yes, treat people before they get sick! People that are likley to get psychologic problems should be treated before they show any symptoms.04:43
DocScrutinizerhmm, now my support starts to fade somewhat04:44
* pupnik flanges nettworker 04:44
nettworkerWell that isnt my view on drugs, but I think everyone that wants someone to talk to (a professional) should get one.04:44
DocScrutinizerhmm, that sounds better04:45
* nox- agrees that prohibition usually only makes matters worse04:47
DocScrutinizerbtw a friend of mine who is streetworker of a NGO helping junkies, has completely same POV - as that's the POV of almost every sane NGO and individuals really involved in that topic on a scientific or analytic way04:47
nettworkerNGO? POV?04:48
DocScrutinizernon governmental organization,04:48
infobotPoint Of View04:48
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nettworkerI think it makes sence. But the availebility of treatment to abusers is important. Although I think it should remain optional, as long as you're not hurting someone else than yourself.04:49
DocScrutinizeras is with any other help you may search for or refuse, from society. Like diagnostics and treatment of cancer, smoking, alcohol addiction, sec addiction, being fat, depressive...04:50
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pupnikhanging around IRC or internet04:56
nettworkerDocScrutinizer: I want help for sex adiction! It would be great to meet a bunch of nymphomaniacs.04:57
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johnxlcuk2, hey. did you hilight me a couple hours ago?04:58
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pupniki need a blender scene with woods, hils, creek, rocks,05:25
johnxI have a blender05:25
johnxyou could make a milkshake05:25
johnxnot sure about fitting a creek or hills in it. also: don't put rocks in a blender. learned that one the hard way ...05:26
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pupnik   homemade flight simulator... ....05:51
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gggspupnik: That's `homemade'?!05:59
gggsyou know they've got something like that where I like, but paradoxically it costs more than a joy-flight in a real aircraft06:01
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gggsthey were running an older version of MS FS due to licensing issues with FSX apparently, and constantly had issues with the three or four networked Windows PCs that made it work06:06
gggsa lot of fun though, a real ultra-light and a big backyard would be even better06:08
ds3why not flightgear06:09
gggsds3: ?06:10
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ds3flightgear is opensource, IIRC06:12
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gggsI think he said they were running FS 2k3, probably a more polished product than FlightGear06:16
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gggsIf someone could port FlightGear to the N900, you could connect it to a big-screen TV and use the accel. sensors as the yolk06:20
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MohammadAG51i hate it when the bookmarks UI doesn't show the URL bar07:58
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gggsDoes anyone else's N900 stutter the first few seconds of an audio track?08:03
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gggsHave you ever managed to fix it? It's embarrassing with company08:07
pupnikdoes it only happen with built-in audio player gggs ?08:10
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gggspupnik: I'm not entirely sure, I'll have to try it with mplayer next time08:12
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gggsIt's like, "Hey my phone is awesome, it's got a 32GB SSD and plays most formats! Watch" *play* "I wo,o,o,o,uld do anythi,i,i,i,ing"08:14
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nox-maybe its just swapping?08:16
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gggsWell that's what I thought, but even with nothing else happening and vm params set, it seems to skip at the start of tracks, and occasionally through them08:17
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luke-jr_gggs: to make it worse, it's not a phone and is *supposed* to be able to play videos ;/08:32
luke-jr_that being said, mine hasn't had any issues playing most normal files08:32
luke-jr_just the insane uncompressed video I captured at the full 5 MP from the N900 cam08:32
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gggsI've played XviD movies through the TV-out, and they came out alright, if not a little less smooth, H.264 gets maybe 5-10 fps, but skipping during mp3/ogg playback...?!08:34
TermanaDesiregggs: it seems to do that while dimming the screen or turning it off (the screen)08:35
gggs600MHz isn't much, but my old 486 could playback audio without skipping... with a SB1608:35
luke-jr_gggs: 486 DX or SX?08:36
TermanaDesireWell actually, I don't know if that's true for the media player but it is when listening to grooveshark with the groove app08:36
gggsTermanaDesire: Yea I've noticed that too, also sometimes while updating cellular position08:37
gggsluke-jr: 486DX2-66!08:37
luke-jr_gggs: try it on SX08:37
luke-jr_with Linux, X11, etc :P08:37
luke-jr_keep in mind Windows NT could do almost everything we do today on 16 MB RAM08:38
CreamyG31337was your 486 running a multitasking OS at the time? you ever look at the quality of mp3s now and back in 1992 you will see a problem with playing those on a 48608:38
jogathere were mp3s in 1992? :)08:38
CreamyG31337yeah maybe not...08:39
jogacan't remember08:39
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luke-jr_I don't recall MP3 changing at any time08:39
jogawiki says 199308:39
luke-jr_today the average bitrate might be 160 kbit, but it started out at 128 kbit08:39
luke-jr_not much difference really08:39
jogabut back then it was mostly modules for me at least08:39
gggsI could playback Quicktime movies on it, I used to get demo CDs with magazines08:39
luke-jr_CDs on a 486?08:40
CreamyG31337if you look at the mp3 decoder settings in winamp for example, its got settings "full, half, quarter" to downsample toe output for your sweet 486 or whatever08:40
jogaI used to play a CD game on a 28608:40
jogathe kind where there's prerendered scenes08:40
luke-jr_Myst is that old?08:40
jogamyst is pretty old08:40
jogawhich reminds me
luke-jr_I thought Myst+CD was like Pentium age08:40
CreamyG31337then again n900 has a DSP so it shouldn't skip on mp3s if the OS is threaded correctly and the diskIO isn't too high08:41
luke-jr_or maybe I'm thinking burner08:41
jogaI had myst when I had a 486 I think. the game I played on the 286 was some other game08:41
luke-jr_joga: Myst is like the first CD game…08:41
jogaor uh...maybe it was a 386 but really low mhz08:41
jogaluke-jr_, I wouldn't bet on that08:41
XisdibikThe Millers began working on Myst in 1991 and released it for the Macintosh computer on September 24, 199308:41
jogabut I didn't buy myst when it was released :)08:42
luke-jr_joga: it was at least the killer app08:42
luke-jr_CD-ROM became mainstream *because* of Myst08:42
jogathe version I had was in russian08:42
jogaimagine the confusion ..08:42
joga(I'm not russian) :)08:42
luke-jr_anyhow, back before Myst everyone used floppies08:43
luke-jr_they only went out and bought CD-ROM drives to play Myst08:43
jogasome people still use floppies for some reason08:43
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ieatlintjust do a raid0 floppy array08:45
ieatlintit's awesome08:45
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gggsGod-damn I hated floppy disks, thanks for bringing that piece of history up08:46
* luke-jr_ smacks ieatlint08:46
gggs"The disk you have inserted is not formatted, would you like to format it now?"08:46
luke-jr_and gggs08:46
luke-jr_gggs: funny, Maemo gives me a similar message every boot…08:46
luke-jr_just calls it MicroSD08:46
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gggsTrue, I think I killed a 1-yr-old mSD card a few months ago under the same circumstances08:47
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gggsI still think it's impressive that my N900 has more processing power, higher resolution screen, megabit networking, and more storage than some PC's I've had in the past08:53
gggsAlthough Nokia could release an `N350' consisting of a bash shell and I'd still be happy08:54
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ieatlinteh... a standard arduino/atmel that can be the size of a pack of gum and run several hours on a coin battery is roughly comparable in power to a 28608:59
ieatlintand costs ~$1508:59
ieatlintgranted, the $600 n900 is comparable in power to a standard computer from around 2001...08:59
ieatlintbut it can't play skifree :(09:00
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wmaronefullscreen Jezzball for the N90009:01
wmaronekiller. app.09:01
gggsDoes it need to run SkiFree? Duke3d ftw09:02
ieatlinti'm pretty sure it'll run duke nukem forever when it comes out09:03
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gggsieatlint: EasyDebian + WINE + skifree.exe?09:08
psycho_oreosyou gotta love the flexibility of N900, make a phone call, surf the net through it and then being able to ssh into the device09:09
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ieatlinti don't feel like perverting my device quite that much09:12
jacekowskiyou forgot about have call cut in the middle because watchdog decides to reboot09:13
* wmarone tries to remember the last time the watchdog rebooted his phone09:13
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gggspsycho_oreos: I have moments where I'll be watching mp4 lectures on my N900, connected to the uni's wifi, with a browser in the background, running Skype, a graphics calculator, my schedule, and sending sms at the same time, and still be struck with awe at the neatness of it09:19
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psycho_oreosgggs, its the cool things that a real multitasking OS with a decent hardware specs can get you these days :)09:20
sivanggood morning09:21
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gggspsycho_oreos: It is :) My old Nokia 6300 single-tasking started irritating me, so I got an N78, which mostly sucked but multi-tasking was neat, and I've been happy with my N900 since I got it 3 months ago09:27
gggssivang: Afternoon09:28
psycho_oreosgggs, similar story to mine except I lost my motorola v3 and got meself N95-1 (which sucked, if I did get rid of it I would have said good riddance but alas n900 doesn't have some of the goodies here and there from n95-1) and now n90009:29
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sivangpsycho_oreos: what goodies are you missing?09:30
gggspsycho_oreos: I had a V600, which I think had similar firmware to the V3, I'm surprised you hated the N9509:31
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sivangyes, N95 is well appreciated among power users and hackers of all sorts of hats.09:31
psycho_oreossivang, alarm clock doesn't do workdays :) it'll still sound on weekends and so I can't really turn that off easily, there's another thing that I also forgot and then there's pynetmony09:32
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psycho_oreosgggs, I hated because it was a phone that gave me nothing but pain.. it crashed alot, then it won't allow me to multitask properly.. and the OS was a hard nut to work with.. can't install programs without signing them.. and they have to be signed before they can be installed.. I had to literally crack the phone.. plus camera/video shutter sounds.. lame.. cannot be disbaled09:33
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: gggs, I hated because it was a phone that gave me nothing but pain.. it crashed alot, then it won't allow me to multitask properly.. and the OS was a hard nut to work with.. can't install programs without signing them.. and they have to be signed before t...09:33
gggsThe Moto' had the worst predictive text ever invented, you'd be typing something like `predictive', but after the `v' it would become `jkfccjqr'09:33
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psycho_oreosI always turn predictive typing off, never liked it since day one with ericsson t39mc using T9 dictionary09:34
sivangpsycho_oreos: you can choose the days you want to alarm to go off so choose all of them excluding the weekend :)09:34
sivangpsycho_oreos: pynetmoney is the net monitoring tool?09:34
Surfait's easy to say that something 5 year old was bad, but did you have any better options that time?09:36
psycho_oreossivang, well put it this way, I have multiple alarms going off sequentially (at 10 minute intervals) and I can't simply go around unsetting weekdays by hand once I'm fully awake.. I must turn them off as the alarms keeps on sounding one by one.. on n95-1 I could just unset the day that I was on and that I'm awake as not a working day and the rest of the alarms won't continue to sound09:36
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psycho_oreossivang, yes, albeit active09:36
keriopsycho_oreos: huh... sneeze09:37
psycho_oreosSurfa, had I knew about it I would have gotten old htc phone (running linux)09:37
psycho_oreoskerio, ?09:37
Surfaand you're sure that would have been better option?09:38
gggspsycho_oreos: That's similar to what I found with the N78, although I've heard the N95 had horrible battery life. I know what you mean by closed OS, you couldn't even do basic modifications like remove the useless `share online' icon from the homescreen09:38
psycho_oreosSurfa, I'm sure I would have been alot happier than dealing with the likes of signed packages and having to install things like ROMpatcher (which could brick yer phone easily) just to get things to work the way that I want09:39
Corsachmhm, does someone know if it's possible to get guess location from a random ip using geoclue?09:39
SurfaCorsac, why not?09:39
sivangpsycho_oreos: the mony thing not open source just freeware right?09:40
psycho_oreosgggs, there's lot more than just that but you get what I mean.. my brother now has a x6-16GB which I played not long ago.. it seems to have opened up a little but I bet its still very restrictive09:40
gggsBut for it's time, it was a groundbreaking phone, it's just than compared to Maemo, Symbian looks older than MacOS 909:40
CorsacSurfa: it seems that the api doesn't provide a way to give it IP address09:40
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CorsacSurfa: I'm not too sure but it seems that it'll only pick the address of the currently routed interface or something09:40
psycho_oreossivang, its open source, the whole thing is written in python but the number of packages one must sign and install in order to get all the functions of the pynetmony working can be a little daunting09:41
gggspsycho_oreos: You can sign .sis files with your own certificate, but you have to go to a Chinese website to get one09:41
sivangpsycho_oreos: installing apps to symbian is undergoing revamping. you can self sign or even get you built apps signed by ovi for free IIRC09:41
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psycho_oreosgggs, yeah I found that out later on.. its still alot of hassle.. that opda site09:41
SurfaCorsac, it appears that you're right..09:41
sivangpsycho_oreos: nice, and you're sure you did not find this for N900? I might take a try and package it / port it09:41
psycho_oreossivang, too bad I've already got my share and had enough of dealing with symbian and its tight arse procedures09:42
CorsacSurfa: ok, so I guess I'd need to ask hostip directly09:43
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psycho_oreossivang, there's no equivalent..the devs on that project moved onto android and the software is known as gmon.. alas n900 has the capability of passive monitoring for wifi which is probably more ideal to harness than using active probing.. I constantly dream the idea of porting it across to n900 but too much projects on my hand right now09:43
gggsThere were some really nice applications for S60v3 that aren't really matched by N900. Ovi Maps for instance, SportsTracker09:44
psycho_oreosovi maps is a laughing farce really.. ovi team just seems to be so obnoxious on their stance with n900 users09:45
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gggsI avoid anything Ovi* like the plague, but Ovi Maps was a nice application, especially with voice guidance09:45
psycho_oreosn95-1 (sorry you must pay for turn by turn navigation).. n900 (sorry turn-by-turn isn't available for your device).. epic fail09:45
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psycho_oreoswell beyond ludicrous09:46
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psycho_oreosthey'll just charge whichever type owners they choose and because n900 is a niche market running linux.. they probably just don't have time.. like their ovi store09:47
gggsI was in love with the Female(British) voice09:47
keriogggs: TMI09:48
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psycho_oreosand most of the ovi stuff is literally made for windows.. so they just shrug off linux users/n900 owners09:48
gggsCome on, it was a cute British accent ``Turn... right at the next... intersection''09:48
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psycho_oreosI never heard of it but I'd say that'd be cool for espeaktime :D09:49
gggs``You have reached your destination'' made me feel like I'd found a secret level of Tomb Raider09:49
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sivangpsycho_oreos: it would probably be nice to have the GSM and UMTS probing , is passive probing availabel there as well ? (-is this like promiscious mode?)09:51
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psycho_oreossivang, afaik for pynetmony gsm/umts were passive but it doesn't log nearby stations servicing other areas or other network providers.. it only shows and logs your own network info and the current one you are on.09:53
sivangpsycho_oreos: okay, good enough09:53
psycho_oreossivang, wlan and bt probing were both active type probing (I've verified the wlan portion and I'm sure you can't really passively monitor bt unless you have a specific chipset, specific subtype of a chipset and special firmware)09:54
sivangpsycho_oreos: okay, thanks for the info. I'll look it up, it being python could help make the porting quicker but not sure until I see the source.09:56
psycho_oreosthe cool thing with pynetmony was also the ability to work with GPS receiver, if you have that on yer phone and you have installed the .sis package for GPS, you can see where roughly the APs, BTs and Cell Towers were along with exporting them out to .kml (only for wlan)09:57
johnxthat sounds like kismet circa 200209:57
psycho_oreoskismet only does wlan however unless you get bt addon but even at that there's no cellular/mobile tower tracking :)09:58
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johnxthat's true, but towers aren't exactly state secrets and bluetooth devices tend to be ... mobile09:59
sivanganyway, I'm off to get some coffee and breakfast.09:59
johnxbut I'm just a cranky old man :)09:59
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psycho_oreostowers are usually company secrets but not at a high level imo.. they don't have a public listing of cell phone towers, their exact MNID, etc addresses, co-ordinates :) and bluetooth well, computers, GPS nav devices, etc uses bluetooth10:00
Corsac(opencellid can provide some information)10:01
johnxI suppose so. I just hoped that the state of the art had advanced a bit more than it has in the last 8 years10:01
psycho_oreosbut it is quite interesting to see what sort of bluetooth names you get just by scanning and logging them, the names usually. Same goes with the names of APs10:01
* psycho_oreos has never heard of opencellid10:01
sivangpsycho_oreos: here's there's a map of all the towers and which company they belong to, environment preservation policy10:03
psycho_oreossivang, btw
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gggswas there a lightning strike near a freenode server, because my entire screen is full of ping timeouts and join messages10:38
jpinx-eeepcdoesn't take much to fill a n900 screen ;)10:39
psycho_oreosno idea but it could have been anything including latency issues10:39
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gggsjpinx-eeepc: You're reading this on an N900, or an eeepc?10:41
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jpinx-eeepceeepc since 5 minutes ago10:41
* jpinx-eeepc needs to change his nick more accurately10:41
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crashanddiejpinx-eeepc, please don't10:42
crashanddieseriously, everyone, stop thinking you're so important that everyone in the rooms you share needs to know at any instant where you are, and what you use.10:43
crashanddieIt's pretty much the same as people tweeting "Taking a crap"10:43
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fluxthe best solutions are always technological. /ignore nicks parts quits :-)10:44
sivangthe xephyr part of refuses to start for me, anybody an idea what to check besides the obvious yet odd params change for tinyX and X ?10:44
crashanddieor /ban idiotswithstupidchangingnicknames.10:44
ds3but but tweeting taking a crap is such a nice feature :D10:44
johnxcrashanddie, no one cares that you care.10:44
* gggs changes name to gggs-servicing_your_mum10:45
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crashanddiegggs, I would recommend you don't do that too often unless you want to be banned ad vita eternam10:46
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johnxanyways. it does make sense in the case of being on a phone, where your typing speed is affected and you don't want people to keep sending you youtube links10:46
sivangright, so loosing -kb works10:46
crashanddiehow loose?10:46
johnxsee. I didn't rise to the bait10:47
crashanddiejohnx, well, having two nicknames is fine, and use whichever is appropriate10:47
crashanddiejohnx, but don't go switching continuously between the two is all I'm asking.10:47
ieatlinti support unprovoked agro attacks of people as well10:47
johnxyes sir. thank you sir10:47
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ieatlintespecially when their actions in no way actually affect me10:47
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ieatlinti feel that my two statements there are truisms10:48
johnxsee, since we know he's on a netbook with flakey wifi, we knew he'd get disconnected sooner or later :D10:48
crashanddieI don't actually see joins/parts :P10:48
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johnxI see ping timeouts. they're everywhere. some of them don't even realize they timed out ...10:49
sivangcrashanddie: haha, I did it again :-p10:49
crashanddieI'm really starting to hate geolocation based on IP :(10:49
sivangcrashanddie: why?10:49
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johnxhaving to set it up for something?10:50
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ieatlintman, flash sucks ass... it appears to have crashed on my desktop, so it has an artefact about 300x500 pixels that's blocking the screen on all my workspaces, and the only way to get it to go away appears to be to kill my browser... but i don't want to close everything i have10:50
crashanddiebecause I'm getting all the crappy results when searching google. I don't care about french results, i want english.10:50
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cehtehieatlint: no session saver plugin?10:50
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ieatlintcehteh: eh.. it does, but it never is too elegant about it10:50
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johnxieatlint, kill the subprocess that's drawing it?10:51
johnxalso: flashblock10:51
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ieatlintyeah, have flashblock on n900 and my laptop... i don't know why i don't here10:51
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ieatlintprobably because i'm awesome like that10:51
ieatlintand it's running inside chromium so i can't just kill the process10:52
crashanddiesivang, shouldn't -kb be -keybd10:52
crashanddie-keybd driver [,,options]      Specify the keyboard driver and its options10:53
sivangcrashanddie: should file a bug report ?10:53
crashanddieI don't even have any clue as to what this stuff is :P10:53
crashanddieI'm just reading the help section of tinyx, and seeing there's -keybd rather than -kb :p10:53
johnxugh. kdrive. ugh10:53
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johnxa fair number of the arguments are documented by 'strings X | less'10:54
dnearyI feel like an idiot10:56
dnearyI don't use git often...10:56
crashanddiewhat'd'ya need?10:56
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dnearyAnd now I want to do a local commit (not a push)10:56
crashanddiegit commit -a -m "My message"10:56
dnearyI have some modified files, and one untracked file which I don't want to be committed10:56
dnearygit commit -m "my commit message" gives me a list of changed files, but doesn't commit them10:57
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ieatlintgit add <list of siles>10:57
ieatlintgit commit -m "my message"10:57
ieatlintbleh, s/siles/files/10:57
dnearygit commit -m "message" -uno doesn't do much better10:57
ieatlintonly list the files you want to add10:57
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dnearyieatlint, This is on a git clone10:58
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crashanddiedneary, pastebin output of git status10:58
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dnearyAh - perhaps I need to do a git branch first to create a local branch10:58
crashanddiegit doesn't have concepts of read-only repos10:58
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crashanddieso you should be able to commit, even if it's a clone.10:58
ieatlintah.. i'm not nearly as proficient at git as i'd like :P10:58
merlincoreyread the pro git book10:58
merlincoreyget a github account10:59
dnearymerlincorey, This is a git clone of a gitorious repository :)10:59
crashanddiemerlincorey, want to really understand git? Then try to install gitorious locally :)10:59
merlincoreydneary: is gitorious like gitolite?10:59
dnearymerlincorey, And (since I'm not quite a neophyte here) I was hoping that I'd just missed something silly in initialisation10:59
crashanddiemerlincorey, no, gitorious is like github, a hosting service11:00
dnearyAnd I believe that would be git branch11:00
crashanddiemerlincorey, but they only allow open source hosting.11:00
merlincoreygitolite will let you do repository hosting with read only access and control of branches too11:00
merlincoreycheck it out on github11:00
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dnearymerlincorey, Not really helping...11:01
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merlincoreydneary: oic11:01
merlincoreydneary: excuse me11:01
merlincoreydneary: let me not really help some more11:01
dnearymerlincorey, I appreciate your time, really11:02
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merlincoreydneary: thanks, me too - have a good night and good luck11:02
merlincoreyI need to pass out11:02
crashanddiedneary, echo "ds.patch" >> .gitignore11:02
crashanddiedneary, git add .11:03
crashanddiedneary, git commit -a -m "message"11:03
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dnearymerlincorey, Just - I'd have preferred if you started with a question (maybe to figure out whether I knew anything at all) before launching into "read a book, spend a few hours experimenting"11:03
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crashanddieor alternatively, git add <file> for all the files you wish to track11:03
dnearycrashanddie, I don't need to create a branch first?11:03
crashanddieyou can11:03
crashanddieif you want to11:03
crashanddiebut it's not required11:03
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crashanddiegit branch keyword11:04
crashanddiethen git add, etc11:04
crashanddiegit will carry the changes over to the new branch until commited11:04
dnearyDo I also need to add .gitignore to .gitignore? :)11:05
crashanddieagain, you can, not required.11:05
crashanddiemost repos have their own .gitignore, which is useless clutter. i like to include it personally11:05
dnearyAh - without it, I'm getting the same thing (.gitignore untracked file)11:05
crashanddie(i like to include .gitignore inside .gitignore so I don't annoy others with it)11:06
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dnearyStill getting the list of modified files, but not seeing a new commit being created11:06
crashanddiedid you git add?11:07
JaffaMorning, all11:07
crashanddiedneary, either git add ., or git commit -a11:07
dnearyDo I need to, after "git clone <repos>; git checkout -b working;"?11:07
crashanddienot necessarily11:07
crashanddieerr, wait, what11:07
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dnearySo -a is pretty much always necessary when you're committing, then? I don't get it11:09
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crashanddieNo, it just tells git to include all the files that it noticed have been added11:10
crashanddieNormally afterwards, you shouldn't have to include it anymore11:10
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crashanddiejust add a newline to the end of index.html to see if it works11:11
crashanddiebasically, -a = "All the local changes"11:12
dnearyNope - doesn't commit11:12
dnearyWithout -a or the git add, it is the equivalent of git status11:12
dnearyWhich is a bit weird :)11:12
dnearyI can live with it, though11:12
crashanddieor if you only want to commit a single file, git add <file>, then git commit11:12
dnearyWorks if I just put the filename on the command line11:12
crashanddieI'm explaining badly, you ought to get a book written by someone who knows how to hold a thought for more than 5 seconds.11:12
dnearycrashanddie, You've been very helpful. Thanks.11:13
Jaffadneary: "git add" allows you to build up your shopping basket of things to commit.11:13
dnearyJaffa, Yeah, I'm getting the general idea now11:13
dnearyIt doesn't work like svn ci...11:13
* Jaffa is still very much a git noob.11:13
crashanddiedneary, I have this printed on 4 * A3 pages on my wall:
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peb_Hi folks, good morning11:15
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pebMore perhaps a Linux question: How do I get aware on the computer, when (and that) my N900 got connected via USB cable? Just by tracing the /var/log/messages file? I need to trigger (some) actions as soon as the littleBugger got attached ...11:22
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Stskeepspeb: lsusb?11:22
johnxpeb, dbus11:22
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johnxlusb would be simpler, but I guess you'd have to poll ...11:22
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dnearyThanks crashanddie11:31
RST38hmoo johnx11:32
johnxm00f RST38h11:32
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johnxRST38h, maybe you'd know. why am I up at 1:30AM?11:33
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RST38hjohnx: You are not up.11:39
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RST38hjohnx: You are either asleep (and we are all a dream) or dead (and then I have no idea what I am doing here)11:40
johnxworse than that. I'm manually applying patches to my kernel ...11:40
ieatlintbah, 1:30 is early11:40
ieatlintthe bars are still open11:40
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johnxieatlint, out of curiosity, how much do you sleep per night?11:41
ieatlintuh, ~811:41
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thpmgedmin: any chance of getting "dict" (for Fremantle) promoted from extras-devel to extras-testing?11:59
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RST38hthp: So, Symbian^3 still requires Avkon, even in Qt programs?12:01
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thpRST38h: for things like fixing screen rotation, i think so12:05
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RST38hthp: Yes, but you also had to do CAknAppUi?12:07
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thpRST38h: no, i just did a copy'n'paste of that snippet - everything else is just qt.12:08
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RST38hheya wazd12:10
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RST38hConsistent exchange of dates, Nokia will continue. MeeGo business responded Ari Jaaksi last week announced to leave the company, Ilta-Sanomat said on Tuesday.12:10
RST38h(sorry for Google Translate messing it upa bit)12:11
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JaffaRST38h: Erk12:16
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RST38hWell, we kinda heard about it last week from a finnish guy, right?12:18
RST38hSo it was true in the end12:18
sivangwho was it?12:19
sivangactually, doesn't matter.12:19
RST38hsivang: doesn't matter12:19
sivanghey TermanaN900 :)12:19
sivangTermanaN900: did I miss yet another internet meme? :-p12:20
TermanaN900sivang, the meme was bad. Not knowing who Ari is, that is a bannable offence! :p12:20
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StskeepsTermanaN900: head of meego devices12:20
sivangTermanaN900: I know who he is!12:21
sivangTermanaN900: I just didn't know who said he'll be living, that's all :)12:21
Sargun_Screenwho is ari?12:21
TermanaN900Stskeeps, well done, you have earnt you're golden star12:21
sivangTermanaN900: and I've been following his posts12:21
* RST38h points in the general direction of google.com12:21
sivangStskeeps, please note to people that I do know who he is, everybody who ever saw a Nokia MeeGo devices or first heard of N900 back then knows who Ari is :)12:22
TermanaN900sivang, then why did you ask who it was ;p12:22
RST38hTermana: Apparently, he though it was funny12:22
sivangTermanaN900: I asked who was the guy who announced it unofficially :)12:22
TermanaN900sivang, suuurreee :p12:22
sivang11:18 < RST38h> Well, we kinda heard about it last week from a finnish guy, right?12:22
JaffaIt's a *bit* unnerving.12:23
TermanaN900Anyway, why are so many people leaving Nokia? :p12:23
sivangso I thought that was some finnish guy who leaked this here on the channel12:23
Sceltlosing thei faith I suppose12:23
RST38hJaffa: You mean, more unnerving than droppipng support for the current phone, deprecating the next phone even before it has been released, and promising some "new" meego device at some unspecified point in the future?12:23
* RST38h cackles evilly, Shelob-style12:24
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JaffaRST38h: Fair point12:24
TermanaN900RST38h, traitor12:25
sivangdoes it really matter if someone leaves or stays?12:25
sivangI mean, I don't think it is something to worry about.12:25
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kirmapure speculation: jaaksi leaving could be positioned in the transition where Qt is aimed to become the dominant internal development platform, not only as the platform being developed, but also as basis for the internally developed applications (think of Symbian^4 bundled applications and so on)12:26
TermanaN900sivang, well i mean, 3 people in higher positions have left, so :p12:26
kirmathe organization of things would be expected to change at that point anyway12:26
sivangTermanaN900: which should probably be more concered at the lower level of people exchange as this truly can affect quality of releases and the software in general.12:27
sivangkirma: indeed12:27
kirmaQt is the platform from that point, not really Symbian or MeeGo/Harmattan12:27
TermanaN900Anyway, I'll be more worried if Nokia introduces any Windows phones12:27
Jaffasivang: Engineers need empassioned leadership.12:27
kirmabut I tend to see many things regarding changes inside Nokia in slightly too optimistic light.12:28
sivangJaffa: true, not saying it is not important, still...12:28
Jaffasivang: And bad leadership causes your engineers to leave ;-)12:28
SceltJaffa: was that Ari Jaaksi a great leader?12:28
sivangwhere there's a change, there's promise12:28
Stskeepsi'm more curious who the replacemnt would be12:29
sivangwe need to embrace12:29
Scelthmph, is ari jaaksi the man who irced here using nick konttori?12:29
kirmaheh even12:30
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kirmagreat leader... like kim il jong? ;)12:30
sivangJaffa: I'm not sure that's a good trait for an engineer. I've been in a lot of places where leadership was crap, but those who had patience and embraced change in leadership profited.12:31
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crashanddiesivang, except that bad leadership causes poor visibility, poor planning, and inherently, poor products12:32
kirmanokia has lots of horribly bad middle management and culture that hasn't worked too much to solve that problem, that's no secret12:32
Jaffasivang: What crashanddie said12:32
JaffaScelt: That'd be Urho Konttori.12:32
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sivangnoted, okay12:32
SceltJaffa: is his real surname Konttori? it means office in Finnish12:33
JaffaAri was, at least, accessible; understood the tech; used the devices and so on.12:33
JaffaWhat he was like to work for, I've no idea.12:33
crashanddieCaused by more-than-needed efforts due to above-average maintenance needs. This creates unnecessary overtime (it's normal to have overtime, but it needs to be required only every once in a while, not 6 days out of 7), and causes people to leave, no matter how much money you throw at them12:33
JaffaWhether MeeGo & Maemo would be somewhere else with someone else in charge, I dunno either.12:33
JaffaScelt: And it's similar in Swedish but yes - that's his name AFAIK.12:33
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SceltJaffa: oknp :)12:34
sivangcrashanddie: true12:35
sivangcrashanddie: this is an issue, if there exists unbalanced work culture it is a problem indeed, wearing engineers and draining their energy.12:36
RST38hJaffa: Bad leadership does not consider engineers a valuable asset12:37
RST38hJaffa: You can always hire new ones off the streets12:37
JaffaRST38h: Indeed.12:37
crashanddieBecause engineers aren't a valuable asset12:37
JaffaRST38h: In some cases, that's true though ;-)12:37
crashanddieIt's the management around them: You can have the best engineers, poorly managed, and they'll produce crap12:37
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RST38hJaffa: When you have hired them off the street a few times in a row,it becomes true enough12:38
RST38hcrash: Problem is, you need to have BOTH parts of the equation right12:38
JaffaRST38h: Really great engineers are as rare as really great managers, IME.12:38
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crashanddieIf you have good management, and this includes appropriate product management, dual track management (hr and tech management shouldn't be done by the same person), good documentation management, then bad engineers will stick out like sore thumbs, and good engineers will shine12:38
JaffaRST38h: And many organisations could probably do better with fewer of each.12:38
crashanddiegood management allows a company to cope with good engineers having issues and being offline for a week or two. Poor management makes a whole company run upside down as soon as someone leaves for holiday12:39
RST38hJaffa: More or less, yes12:40
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crashanddieI'm actually a big supporter of the "Leave often, leave early" when it comes to nearly any job, but even more true for engineering/consulting roles12:42
crashanddieMost newcomers have reached their peak after 6 months-2 years, depending on the size of the company, and the quality of the person12:43
crashanddieAfter that peak, projects will look the same, and the person won't be listened to anymore when it comes to changing infrastructure to improve the workflows/management technique.12:44
crashanddieDay 1: "Oh wow, that's a good idea, let's use that", day 700: "Yeah yeah, you told us that before, but haven't had time for it in the past, and we more urgent things to do"12:44
crashanddieAt that point, the person needs to find a new company, or new part of the same company to move to.12:45
crashanddieAnd management should actually encourage them to leave. It's stupid for management to think they'll be able to retain someone forever.12:45
crashanddieIf management recommends someone for another job (either a sideway movement if less than 12 months of age in the company, or upwards if more than 18 months), they'll have a lot more chances to get it, and management retains the ability to use that person's knowledge when required, if required.12:47
crashanddieBut being blind about the fact the person will leave will cause a pretty bad injury and disconnection when the person finally submits his resignation, and then everyone's screwed.12:47
crashanddieRaise your hand if you've ever spent the last week of work refreshing slashdot because you weren't allowed to touch anything, and people didn't invite you for lunch anymore because it was "sensitive data"12:48
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* SpeedEvil imagines confidential ham.12:56
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tybolltguess my phone was really fuubar14:08
tybollthanded it in for repairs14:08
tybolltgot a new one back14:08
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n900-spacehow do i access Madde console while i'm using a linux pc?14:26
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midas_hi there14:35
midas_i have a small problem with my n900 + exchange 201014:35
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midas_certificate is from startssl and works, but my phone claims that its having a hard time communicating with the server14:36
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crashanddiemidas_, exchange support is flaky at best14:37
crashanddiemidas_, do you know for sure if exchange 2010 is supported?14:37
midas_it was on maemo.org14:37
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midas_that they at least got it to work14:37
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sivaN900i heard exc€hane support is quite bad across distros14:38
midas_i noticed14:39
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RST38hInternet Explorer falls below 50 percent global marketshare, Chrome usage triples14:41
sivaN900midas_: been using it actually?14:44
midas_sivaN900: exchange? yes14:44
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sivaN900midas_: what are the major issues ? on which platform ? has ubuntu managed to do any improvements to open sourse support of it ?14:45
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midas_sivaN900: i used it on my n900..14:46
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sivaN900midas_: ah never had to use it. modest really improved accessing gmail though14:47
sivaN900midas_: in the last pr upgrade14:47
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sivaN900midas_: yes14:48
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sivaN900midas_: after ages on initial run it is somewhat better in fetching headers time and allowing you to work with cached content while download is in progress14:49
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crashanddieMohammadAG51, does maemo use Packages.bz2 on repos?14:54
MohammadAG51i think so14:54
MohammadAG51probably not14:55
MohammadAG51tar doesn't have bzip2 support14:55
crashanddieMohammadAG51, then apt-get wouldn't work, would it?14:55
MohammadAG51maybe Packages.gz14:55
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crashanddieah, indeed14:55
crashanddieMohammadAG51, trying to figure out what the spaniard has on his repo14:58
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crashanddieare the angry birds .debs free distributables?15:03
crashanddieMohammadAG51, look at the "inyeccionmods" line :015:05
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MohammadAG51package contains .ko files15:08
crashanddieit's just the neopwn modules repackaged15:08
crashanddieMohammadAG51, can you run strings on that to see if it's GPL?15:08
crashanddieor are you on your N900?15:09
MohammadAG51crashanddie, doing so right now15:09
MohammadAG51crashanddie, and i'm on the N90015:09
MohammadAG51i have strings on it :P15:09
MohammadAG51first fail15:09
MohammadAG51deb contains another deb15:09
MohammadAG51crashanddie, pipe symbol please15:10
MohammadAG51broke the virtual kbd while trying to get the 1.1 back15:10
MohammadAG51license=GPL, got him15:11
pupnik_i want to build robots that do human jobs15:11
pupnik_to fucking crush all those dumb people i hated in school15:11
MohammadAG51~/MyDocs/.documents/gpl/usr/lib/neomods $ strings *.ko | grep license\=GPL | wc -l15:12
MohammadAG51can i come to court, please :P15:12
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dsgThe mozilla repo's been broken for some days now (invalid Release file), anyone who maintains it?15:15
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crashanddiedsg, Mozilla?15:17
timeless_mbpdsg: um15:18
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timeless_mbpfile a bug15:18
crashanddiedo you have to pay for the angry birds expansion packs?15:18<something>15:18
timeless_mbpbut i just updated fennec today15:18
timeless_mbpso be sure you specify the full repo config, the log message, etc15:19
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timeless_mbpi'm running a fennec build from yesterday (10/04) which i got via a ham update this morning15:19
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MohammadAG51crashanddie, yes15:20
crashanddiewhat's the licence?15:20
MohammadAG51crashanddie, vermagic= preempt mod_unload modversions ARMv715:21
MohammadAG51it's an exact copy15:21
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MohammadAG51crashanddie, same MD515:22
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dsgcrashanddie: Yeah, I guess, was just wondering if the maintainer was perhaps in the channel :)15:24
dsgI'll file a bug.15:24
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crashanddie_MohammadAG51, posted15:33
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MohammadAG51need help reflashing a shitty router15:34
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MohammadAG51crashanddie_, you didn't thank me you bastard15:37
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MohammadAG51lol was jk but.. thanks :D15:39
MohammadAG51lol @ 40315:39
* crashanddie_ sends an email to Rovio, the Angry Birds dev15:40
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lcukRovio responds by firing a bevvy of slightly annoyed voles back at you15:41
Jef91Wow go Ovi Store. Nothing like paying for a game and then having it REFUSE to download.15:41
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MohammadAG51using /var/tmp was a bad choice15:42
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MohammadAG51a simple chmod to prevent access to some folder (say, /opt/ovistore?), then it could dl to that15:42
MohammadAG51but no15:43
MohammadAG51it downloads a deb, directly to /var/tmp15:43
MohammadAG51which can be easily copied from15:43
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Jef91404 error from the download page. Just WOW.15:44
RST38hMohammad: One lemming too many, in that tmo thread?15:45
crashanddie_lcuk, didn't compute, sorry.15:47
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TermanaHmm... was watching some Debconf10 video on upstart. Are men in kilts the usual dress code for Debconf? :p15:54
TermanaI didn't even notice it until the end when the guy in the audience stood up15:55
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StskeepsTermana: i would say its not unusual15:57
luke-jr_would it be unusual to go dressed … normally? XD15:57
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* luke-jr_ wonders how one would reasonably conceal his handgun in a kilt15:59
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SpeedEvilThigh holster16:00
luke-jr_SpeedEvil: that's concealed how?16:01
SpeedEvilConcealed unless you open your legs16:01
luke-jr_you mean under the kilt?16:01
Termanaluke-jr_, I think a better question is why would you take a gun to debconf.16:01
TermanaYou can throw tux dolls at people instead16:01
luke-jr_Termana: because it's foolish to go anywhere unarmed?16:01
TermanaI suppose I'm a fool then16:02
timeless_mbpluke-jr: there's the bag in the front often16:02
luke-jr_Termana: that implies only fools do foolish things :P16:02
timeless_mbpthe yellow thing16:02
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timeless_mbp"Sporran" i guess16:03
SpeedEvilluke-jr: yes16:03
Termanaluke-jr_, besides, I'm always armed16:03
timeless_mbp"military sporrans"16:03
TermanaI have two of em16:03
luke-jr_Termana: fists have been mostly obsolete for millenia :P16:04
luke-jr_unless you're really agile and have some good training :P16:04
TermanaI always ARMed as well16:04
lcukluke-jr_, ahem16:04
luke-jr_then it's just plain impressive :o16:05
TermanaI have two of those as well16:05
luke-jr_lcuk: meha16:05
lcukEtiquette demanded that when entering a friends home any and all concealed weapons would be revealed, the Sgian Dubh would then be taken out and placed in the top of the sock, held securely by the garter.16:05
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lcukso no concealed weapons16:06
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luke-jr_Debconf != friends home16:06
alteregoHoly crap, now Ari's leaving? :'(16:06
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alteregoHe was one of my favourites.16:06
luke-jr_that sentence also implies weapons can be conceiled :P16:07
crashanddie_luke-jr: I thought debian was home to all geeks, without discrimination?16:07
crashanddie_luke-jr: proof:
crashanddie_not that I'd be particularly happy to call those my friends.16:08
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timeless_xchatthat excludes snail mail16:08
luke-jr_crashanddie_: my home is where I live16:08
timeless_xchati have a lot of that stuff16:08
timeless_xchati caught up on tv16:08
timeless_xchatbut only because my dvr ran out of space which meant i lost programming16:09
timeless_xchatplus i need to pick up an id card16:09
crashanddie_lcuk, here:
crashanddie_sad thing is, the first thought that crossed my mind was "Bad use of depth of field, and that tyre is dirty"16:10
timeless_xchatthe standard estimate for catching up on mail is one week for one week16:10
timeless_xchati don't expect to do better16:10
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lcukcrashanddie_, I just thought the dress was nice and was surprised by how little it appeared to ride up basedon her leg16:11
timeless_xchatsp3000, any idea how late the police station for IDs is open?16:11
lcukand did the camera man get any better angles16:11
crashanddie_lcuk, relatively16:12
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crashanddie_probably NSFW:
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lcukhaha the fabric on the dress mustv been more flimsy than I thought, on some of those photos it looks totally see through!16:14
MohammadAG51crashanddie_, I'd hit those rims anytime16:15
sp3000timeless_xchat: dunno16:16
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sp3000you can call and ask right ;)16:16
sp3000looks like it's mainlt 8-16:1516:17
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timeless_xchati'll try to go tomorrow16:17
timeless_xchatdoes "dear lazyweb" only apply to http?16:18
timeless_xchatam i "dear lazyNet?"16:18
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crashanddieI guess that girl was too hot -- looking at another picture of the same photoshoot, my computer BSOD'd16:20
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MohammadAG51nah, windows is a jerk :P16:21
crashanddieactually I think it's due to network access16:21
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crashanddiesometimes when I SCP or stuff, it BSOD16:21
sivangcrashanddie: it helps you appreciate OSs that don't, Windows is actually supporting open source.16:22
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pupnik_^^ do want16:31
crashanddiehmm, actually it's the network card16:32
MohammadAG51use linux16:32
MohammadAG51or hackintosh the shit16:32
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crashanddieMohammadAG51, corporate computer16:37
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lolcat^My N900 keeps rebooting on startup16:38
crashanddieMohammadAG51, I don't have admin access on my computer :)16:39
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jacekowskii have an idea16:41
jacekowskihow to solve swap problem16:41
RST38hreally? wonderful!16:41
jacekowskiwhat is a size of block on emmc?16:41
RST38hhave you figured out what to do with the bodies, too?16:42
SpeedEviljacekowski: 130K or so16:42
SpeedEviljacekowski: but these are erase blocks16:42
SpeedEviljacekowski: read blocks are 512 bytes16:42
jacekowskiyeah, so if we force it to swap 128k blocks16:42
SpeedEvilDoesn't help16:42
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RST38hBeautiful solution, Captain16:42
SpeedEvilWell - it does16:42
RST38hUnfortunately, it is already set to something like 256kB16:43
jacekowskiand read 128k blocks16:43
SpeedEvilbut - what happens if you have freed 31 of those 32k pages16:43
jacekowskiso whole block is freed and can be reused16:43
SpeedEvil31 of those 4K pages16:43
CarnequeAnyone know if the USB OTG issue ever get further attention?16:43
RST38hAnd quite a few people claim that setting it to a SMALLER size improves swap performance16:43
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SpeedEvilIt's basically horribly complex.16:43
RST38hCarneque: define "further"16:44
SpeedEvilCarneque: yes.16:44
jacekowskiimagine that it tracks emmc block sizes16:44
jacekowskiand when any page from block is read back16:44
CarnequeI wasn't active in that thread that looked like it got nasty towards the end, ending in June16:44
jacekowskiit sends all pages to prefetch queue16:44
meceYesssss! Got a maemo project at work :)16:44
RST38hLinux swapping algorithms know nothing of MMC block sizes16:44
CarnequeSo I saw this thread and I was interested...16:44
jacekowskiand system will clean erase block16:44
MohammadAG51mece hand it over16:45
jacekowskiRST38h: that's why i said imagine16:45
meceMohammadAG51, sure. I'll take the paycheck though.16:45
RST38hThey are configurable though and currently set to swap out in 256kB clusters16:45
SpeedEviljacekowski: The erase handling is inside the emmc.16:45
RST38hjacekowski: I can just imagine a faster MMC.16:45
* MohammadAG51 burns the project 16:45
jacekowskithat can't be changed16:45
meceActually it's Qt, but development on maemo to start with.16:45
SpeedEviljacekowski: There is a little embedded controller inside that that manages erase behaviour, you can't change this.16:45
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CarnequeIs there a new thread on taht guys?16:45
MohammadAG51Qt is awesome16:45
jacekowskibut you can change software16:45
jacekowskiso it swaps always 128k blocks16:46
RST38hjacekowski: Neither can linux swapping code, unless you know VERY WELL what you are doing. Do you?16:46
meceMohammadAG51, hehe16:46
SpeedEviljacekowski: doesn't help16:46
jacekowskion block boundariess16:46
SpeedEviljacekowski: you swap out 128K fine - that works well.16:46
jacekowskiand when it has to read something it will read 128k16:46
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RST38hSpeedEvil; it is set to 6, i.e. 256kB16:46
SpeedEviljacekowski: now, what happens when 8/32ths of this block is freed?16:46
jacekowskithat's impossible16:46
jacekowskiit will free 100% of blokc16:47
SpeedEviljacekowski: it's not that simple.16:47
SpeedEviljacekowski: you're assuming that swap clusters are the same as VM pages.16:47
SpeedEvilThey're not16:47
crashanddieSpeedEvil, then a quarter will go to heaven16:47
meceMohammadAG51, anyway, I had one project before, and that was pretty sweet, but did it in gtk. It was before the official qt for maemo. Now I'm thinking QML + Qt or something like that. It's a proof of concept so the requirements are sortof loose.16:47
SpeedEvilyou can't go to 128K pages without basically shredding the system.16:47
SpeedEvilthe VM system16:47
meceanyway, makes me happy :)16:47
jacekowskii'm not planning to16:47
jacekowskibut i'm planning to read multiple pages at once16:48
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jacekowskimost likely related16:48
CarnequeAnyone on that keyboard, new thread?16:48
jacekowskias swap is sort of kept defragmented16:48
SpeedEviljacekowski: It's not.16:48
jacekowskiso amount of pages unswapped that are not going to be used will be minimal16:48
SpeedEviljacekowski: There is nothing attempting to defragment swap.16:49
SpeedEvilYou need to add a swap defragmentor.16:49
jacekowskijust how it behaves makes it swap related pages together16:49
jacekowskiat least on start16:49
SpeedEvilThere is no such thing as a related page.16:49
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SpeedEvilPages contiguously in RAM are not required at the same frequency.16:50
jacekowskipages are swapped based mostly on LRU16:51
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jacekowskiso if program was swapped16:51
jacekowskiand it starts doing something with data that was swapped16:51
jacekowskithere are two things that are very likely to happen16:51
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SpeedEvilI'm not disagreeing.16:52
jacekowskiit will access more than 512b page16:52
SpeedEvilIt's just the current swap algorithm does not know this.16:52
SpeedEvilAnd you need to teach it.16:52
jacekowskinot really16:52
jacekowskilru is enough16:52
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jacekowskipages with content that's related will be ussualy swapped at the same time16:53
jacekowskiand will ussualy be required at the same time16:53
SpeedEvilIf you're arguing for always swapping in 128K blocks of 32 pages, then you decrease the efficiency of swap.16:53
SpeedEvilAs when you swap in a desired page, often, undesired pages will come with16:53
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SpeedEvilThe simplest way round this would be to write those back out contiguously.16:54
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jacekowskiyeah, but it may be better to unswap 128k and then swap again16:54
SpeedEvilBut there are better ways like circular buffers.16:54
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jacekowskibecause that will tend to keep swap less fragmented16:54
jacekowskiand on eMMC it may make it faster16:55
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SpeedEvilI need to put my nice blueprint in.16:55
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SpeedEvilI've got a partially written writeup of ideas on this.16:55
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SpeedEvilBasically, you can do it with a near-trivial nbd client16:55
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SpeedEvilIt would be lots better with hooks into the swap algorithm so you knew about pages that are no longer desired.16:56
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SpeedEvilBut if you don't care much about absolute size of pagefile, it doesn't matter16:56
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crashanddieanyone remember that google wave developer rant video?17:04
tybolltsure do :)17:05
tybolltand now ... BWAHAHAHAHA :)17:06
crashanddieIt's like it has disappeared from the web17:06
tybolltcrashanddie: sorry no I don't17:06
tybolltcrashanddie: again... BWAHAHAHAHA17:06
crashanddiehow so?17:06
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tybolltyeah where's wave today?17:06
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crashanddieNo, I'm talking about the google developer who made a video where he said he was disgusted that he'd been working for x years on wave, and it was cancelled because a bunch of dimwits couldn't use it17:07
jacekowskibasicaly how swap works is that non used pages are added to a queue17:07
mcepldoes anybody know about any better channel for help with syncing N900/Maemo with syncevolution to synevolution as HTTP server?17:07
tybolltcrashanddie: oh sorry not what I meant17:08
jacekowskiand if memory is required pages from that queue are swapped17:08
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jacekowskiso pages in queue are quite ordered17:08
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mceplwhen running syncevolution/N900 against syncevo/Linux I get on server this error ... any ideas, what's wrong?17:08
jacekowskiwhich makes them ordered in swap as well17:08
mcepllocal syncevo is syncevolution-
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n900-spacein this directory C:\NokiaSDK\Maemo\4.6.2\targets nothing shows up? Thats wrong right ?17:12
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sx0nstop fscking it.17:18
lolcat^I need my phone!17:19
jacekowskilow battery probably17:19
jacekowskior rebootloop for some other reason17:19
pupnik_possibly username 'lolcat^' is the reason17:21
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sivangpupnik_: :p17:25
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sivangchaps, it mostly seems that you need to get a warranry replacement if the phone enters that mode and mostly by car charging or possibly using a non stable non nokia approved charger?17:30
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sivanghuh, I used the word chaps, how odd.17:31
sivangnon stable wrt voltage here17:32
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timeless_mbpi was on vacation when bm(oz)o 600k was filed — almost certainly riding around the ring of kerry17:58
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GAN900Ari's officially gone, eh?18:34
sivangGAN900: where did you read it?18:34
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alteregoI read it on planet maemo18:35
* sivang searches18:35
GAN900Sourced from Talous Sanomat18:35
StskeepsGAN900: yeah, official18:36
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jaskaalso its a compound word.. taloussanomat :D18:39
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dnearyWho's the bot?18:43
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togglesso engadget says we get meego hardware by the end of 201018:44
togglesthat would be nice.18:44
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togglesStskeeps: good job on "providing" those drivers btw, when can we have them?18:45
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Stskeepstoggles: you'll have to go through me first, bwhaha!18:46
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togglesit's actully shaping up nice by the looks of the video18:46
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alteregoYeah, that is much better than what I was using a week ago :P18:48
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teilzeitstudentis there some magic to having new ringtones listed in the "Select Ringtone" dialog? The files are in .sounds/Ringtones and I can selected/play them using the "More" dialog... but they do not appear in the list automatically.18:48
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* sivang wonders how does Eldar gets the devices to write about them and leak18:54
pupniksivang - you haven't seen this one before:
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sivangpupnik: heh, yes18:59
sivangI think I have18:59
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alteregoCan anyone else access ?19:12
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ikke-thi, what do you use for #ifdef for diablo?19:13
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SpeedEvilalterego: Iget a 'fuck off, site is broken' message19:14
ikke-tis #ifdef Q_WS_HILDON19:15
alteregoSpeedEvil: same here, that's annoying.19:15
ikke-tfor both diablo and fremantle?19:15
alteregoSpeedEvil: thanks for confirming it's not just me then ^.^19:15
alteregoSpeedEvil: is it some "apparent" DNS issue?19:15
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SpeedEvilOh - I got an actual GIF when I loaded - now it's just text19:29
alteregoOh, heh.19:31
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E0xheeh nice!19:37
E0xi was trying do this19:37
E0xbut is already done now19:37
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timeless_xchatanyone remember my last number?19:57
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Chibi-Taigahey guys, i have a questioon , i installed an application/tool that changed "charging led status into clock charging led status" or something but how can i remove it ? its not in application list20:08
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keriotimeless_xchat: i bet it's 420:14
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Chibi-Taigahow can i restore my led status ?20:15
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Chibi-Taigaguess no one can help me ?20:16
lcukChibi-Taiga, sounds odd20:17
lcuktake a screenshot20:17
lcukand show whats different20:17
Chibi-Taigauhh ?20:17
lcuktake a photo20:18
lcukyou say its doing something different20:18
lcukit might jog someones memory20:18
Chibi-Taigait was an application i downloaded and installed20:19
Chibi-Taigaand it changed the led status when charging or something20:19
Chibi-Taigaim looking up what it was called on google20:20
lcukChibi-Taiga, sigh20:20
lcukthere is no clock on the led status20:20
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Chibi-Taigaok , i dont remember clearly whati t was but it changed the led flasing20:22
Chibi-Taigalike charging, and standby20:22
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Chibi-Taigajust tell me how i can restore that20:23
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Chibi-Taigathere is no logging rite ? that logs what you did with the hone ?20:26
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Chibi-Taigacharging led clock is it called20:27
Chibi-Taigait indicates the charging led pattern to indicate time20:27
lcukChibi-Taiga, IDK and if you can't explain yourself perhaps you can just remember which you installed yourself20:27
Chibi-Taigai just said20:28
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lcukits listed on there20:29
lcukyou know the app name now20:29
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Chibi-Taigayeah i go look again . maby i missed it20:30
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Chibi-Taigaits abit anoying that led this way , also when i remove charger it stays orange blinking20:30
Chibi-Taigai thought it changed collors on battery fuel20:31
Chibi-Taigabtw, is there a way for n900 to reat ntsf formatted memeory sticks ?20:32
Chibi-Taigasometimes there are files i download and they are over 4gb20:33
Chibi-Taigaand fat dont support that20:33
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Mouseyhi internets!20:36
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MNZaah channel sweet channel20:41
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Stskeeps'lo MNZ20:41
Stskeepshow's it going?20:41
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MNZpretty messy, but 'tis going nonetheless20:41
MNZI just moved out to an apartment on my own! woohoo!20:42
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Stskeepswoo :)20:42
SpeedEvilMNZ: Congratulations!20:42
SpeedEvilMNZ: Try not to set it on fire too much.20:43
* MNZ writes that down20:43
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MNZwhat's worrying me right now though is frying the hard disk of my laptop if I turn the microwave on20:43
MNZanyone know if that can actually happen or if it's just modern wive's tales?20:44
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SpeedEvilI use my laptop on top of my microwave quite often.20:44
MNZwhile it's working??20:45
SpeedEvilIt's at a convenient height to use while cooking.20:45
SpeedEvilmicrowave is counter-top20:45
GAN900Hopefully the microwave is leaking that much radiation.20:46
SpeedEvilwifi works20:46
GAN900Also: microwaves don't qualify as cooking. :P20:46
SpeedEvilIt gets slightly slower.20:46
SpeedEvilGAN900: And yes, they do.20:46
SpeedEvilGAN900: The microwave is merely a heating tool.20:46
SpeedEvilLike a frying pan, a ban marie(sp?), or a clay oven.20:46
SpeedEvilFor some tasks, they are exceptional.20:47
SpeedEvilFor example, making 100g of a couple of minutes.20:47
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mc_teohas there been an reports of the pdf reader having memory leaks?20:48
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SpeedEvilOr warming up deep-frozen food to 0C, so you can slice it.20:48
mc_teoor messing up hildon?20:48
SpeedEvilNot heard any.20:48
SpeedEvilpdf reader is a bit broken though20:48
mc_teoall my exam papers are in pdfs20:49
mc_teoso i look them up quite reguarly20:49
timeless_xchatkerio, it has to be closer to 3020:50
keriotimeless_xchat: 42!20:50
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mc_teoso anyway20:54
mc_teoso i look them pdf reader quite reguarly20:55
mc_teoi noticed that things like the url bar in the browser doesnt show up20:55
mc_teowell doesnt show suggestions from history after i opened it20:55
mc_teountil i restart the phone20:55
mc_teoi open them in the browser20:55
mc_teoso it could be the .pdf handler for opening it20:56
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pupnik  UFO shut down chinese airport21:06
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E0xanybody is working in  a backporting of the graphic driver of meego to maemo 5 ?21:07
Venemohi guys21:07
pupnikwhat for E0x21:07
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E0xvsync ?21:07
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Chikuany vlc player on n900 ?21:17
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Chibi-Taigaguys is there a way for n900 to read ntsf file system ?21:18
wmaroneif you load the kernel module, probably21:19
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wmaronewhat are you trying to read that's formatted NTFS?21:19
keriowhat's ntsf21:19
Chibi-Taigaa file system of windows21:19
Chibi-Taigait alows files over 4gb21:19
Chibi-Taigabut my n900 dont reconize it21:20
kerioNorthwest Traffic Safety Foundation?21:20
wmaroneit's the only non-obsolete, data safe filesystem windows understands21:20
haltdefwhat about exfat?21:20
keriooh, ntFS21:21
wmaroneexfat is proprietary garbage21:21
kerioyou said ntsf21:21
Chibi-Taigamy bad21:21
haltdefoh noes21:21
wmaroneit's explicitly not data safe, and MS has patented the crap out of it21:21
Chibi-Taigawell , is there a way to alow files over gb for n900 ?21:21
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Mouseyapt-cache show ntfs-3g21:22
Chibi-Taigaim a linux noob21:22
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Chibi-Taigawhats ext3 ?21:23
timeless_mbpChibi-Taiga: samba + /home/user21:24
timeless_mbp(if you grow /home/user to be big enough anyway...)21:24
Chibi-Taigagrow ?21:25
timeless_mbpwindows understands CIFS natively :)21:25
timeless_mbpwell, /home is only 2gb out of the box :)21:25
timeless_mbpso you'd either have to reformat MyDocs as ext3 (or ntfs + get driver), or resize MyDocs and /home21:26
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Chibi-Taigaits about the sd21:27
Chibi-Taiganot the phone memory'21:27
Chibi-Taigabut i can format it as exexfat under windows21:28
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timeless_mbpwell, whatever21:30
timeless_mbpyour n900 can have 4 volumes21:30
timeless_mbp /, /home, MyDocs, uSD21:30
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Chibi-Taigai see21:31
intelinsidergood evening21:31
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Chibi-Taigaohwell, there is no p;ugin to let n900 read ntsf rite ?21:33
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MohammadAG51it's ntfs21:34
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wmaronefor a real shocker21:35
Chibi-Taigamy bad21:35
wmaronego to your x terminal and type "apt-cache search ntfs"21:35
Chibi-Taigaits just a habbit21:35
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wmaronelo-and-behold there's a kernel module for NTFS (read only probably)21:35
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MohammadAG51you can compile the kernel with built in read/write ntfs support21:36
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wmaronethey added full write support in 2.6.28?21:36
MohammadAG51i did it in the hostmode kernel, cba to redo it for other kernels21:37
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MohammadAG51that's what the .config says21:37
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wmaroneI thought it had that nasty "as long as the filesize doesn't change" limitation still21:37
keriodid someone try lastmeasure on microB?21:37
MohammadAG51idk, didn't really try it, i hate ntfs21:38
wmaroneno argument there21:38
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MohammadAG51i'd rather use raw and edit blocks manually :p21:39
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Chibi-Taigait cant find apt-cache21:39
Chibi-Taigaerr nvm21:39
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wmaronemy forehead hurts real bad now21:39
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Stskeepsheaddesking too much?21:41
jacekowskikernel ntfs support is still poor21:41
jacekowskisince ntfs-3g in kernel ntfs was pretty much abandoned21:41
wmaroneStskeeps: no, just far too hard...21:41
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crashanddieDon't remember who replied to my Google Wave question earlier, but I found the link again (thank you safari!)
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lcukdoes anyone know of a beard simulation site?  if anyone has info, please respond to my tweet
SpeedEvillcuk: ?22:13
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lcuklol SpeedEvil thats a woven fake beard22:13
lcukI was thinking more digital simulation22:13
SpeedEvilSimulation cannot replace the awesome 3D22:14
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lcukSpeedEvil, true22:14
lcuki have a proto beard already22:14
lcuki just need to model and shape it into awesomeness22:14
lcukand wanted to consider a selection22:14
crashanddielcuk: there was this japanese site that allowed you to it22:14
crashanddielcuk: they even gave you the steps on how to recreate said beard22:15
lcuki went to the link22:15
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SpeedEvilFor a free software advocate, tehre is only one option.22:15
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lcuki have been looking on22:16
lcukand wondering about transposing my avatar behind them all22:16
lcukto see22:16
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crashanddie"Beards can make you EXTREMELY manly and sexy, so be sure to watch out for wild, crazy women who might mob you"22:17
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lcukthats true crashanddie22:18
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GAN900crashanddie, ha22:18
crashanddieGAN900: not yours, though.22:18
GAN900crashanddie, clearly.22:19
lcukRT: @RevdKathy @lcuk Hope beard simulators work better than knitting pattern simulators - struggling with the logo!22:19
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lcukok time to get out the gimp22:21
crashanddieis that a euphemism for a picture of self?22:21
MNZI remember this blog with this guy who cut his beard into a bunch of styles22:21
crashanddieYou know, with all those names like git, gimp, and libcaca, I'm wondering if OS devs have a wicked sense for humour22:22
MNZfound it
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MouseyMNZ awesome22:24
lcukMNZ, thank you!22:24
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MNZhave fun and stay safe heh22:24
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septiqhi, how can i fully replicate one n900 filesystem to another ?22:25
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lcukseptiq, theres threads about doing exactly this, hold on22:27
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septiqthanks lcuk22:28
lcukwhether it works22:28
lcukwhether its what you need22:28
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lcukis down to your requirements, but its being hammered out in a mighty thread22:28
* lcuk wants "click show thanked posts only" on these kinds of threads22:28
lcukto weed out good from bad22:28
MNZmore beardy goodness:
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lcukMNZ, that is a sham hairdresser!22:30
lcukits in demo mode22:30
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lcukthank you tho :D22:30
lcuk:D the beard functions work22:31
MNZyeah I noticed it's a demo but it does pretty much work22:31
MNZI'm not sure which parts are closed22:32
septiqlcuk: is it possible to flash the second n900 using OSX or should i install Nokia flashing software in a VMware container ?22:32
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infobotit has been said that flashing is
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MohammadAGcan someone post the output of ls -l /usr/lib/libhildon-im*22:38
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crashanddieseptiq: yes, the flasher works fine on OSX22:39
jacekowskijacekowski:~# ls -l /usr/lib/libhildon-im*22:39
jacekowskils: cannot access /usr/lib/libhildon-im*: No such file or directory22:39
jacekowskion debian22:39
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septiqcrashanddie: cool, url ?22:39
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MohammadAGdebian doesn't have hildon :P22:39
crashanddieseptiq: the one lcuk gave you, please pay attention.22:39
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MohammadAGah, thanks22:41
MohammadAGI have missing symlinks22:41
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MohammadAGtrying to get the PR1.1 keyboard back on PR1.222:43
lcukMohammadAG, is there a patchset available for the desktop keybindings?22:44
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lcukand can it be applied over the latest gitorious master?22:44
MohammadAGhmm, Matan's?22:44
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MohammadAGI'll look into them after this, though sadly this can't be released, the binaries aren't open22:45
lcukare there specific bindings which make more sense than all of them22:45
lcukthats not sadly, regressing the keyboard doesn't give much benefit22:45
lcukHIM is a tricky subsystem22:45
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MohammadAGlcuk, indeed it is22:48
MohammadAGbut Matan's patches are for hildon-desktop22:48
MohammadAGnot HIM22:48
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lcukMohammadAG, you were talking about the vkb and stuff, thats HIM related I believe.  distinct and different to matans hildon patches22:49
MohammadAGI need R&D mode back22:49
MohammadAGI'm referring to the virtual keyboard22:49
MohammadAGthe one on PR1.2 is shit compared to the 1.1.1 one22:50
MohammadAGI'm not sure why they redesigned it22:50
MohammadAGit was perfect on 1.022:50
MohammadAGmeh, not working22:52
MohammadAGI need the old binaries22:52
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timeless_mbphey guys?22:56
timeless_mbpis's search index working right now?22:56
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ShadowJKseems so22:58
lcuktimeless_mbp, yes22:59
timeless_mbpsorry about that23:00
timeless_mbpi need to remember to update the paths when i change file systems23:00 lives in roughly /home/timeless/....23:00 lives in /data/...23:00
timeless_mbpand i need to tell mxr to update its paths, otherwise you get unhappy stuff23:01
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meceStskeeps, ping?23:06
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babsher_does anyone know how to use the  bootmenu-n900 package23:09
babsher_i want to boot from my sd card23:10
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MohammadAG51thanks jacekowski recovered my vkb23:15
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hoffimy complete menue have really crazy names23:25
hoffimy clock displays only; wdget_va_24h_time23:26
DocScrutinizerwut, mxr is well again?23:26
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lcukhoffi, translations hmm23:28
hoffisry for my bad english :(23:29
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hoffidoes anyone have an idea?23:32
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* DocScrutinizer spanks timeless_mbp with a marshmallow whip23:35
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timeless_mbpif something else is broken, please let me know23:36
timeless_mbphoffi:  yeah, you're using a broken locale23:36
timeless_mbppick another23:36
DocScrutinizerthe whip for breaking it, the marshmallow part for fixing it :-D23:36
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: i didn't really break it23:36
timeless_mbpwell, i kinda did, i suppose23:36
timeless_mbpthe break was in two pieces: 1. copying over a new index w/o updating paths. 2. the os changed23:36
DocScrutinizeranyway the X in mxr is back to purpose23:37
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* DocScrutinizer doing a happy dance23:37
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DocScrutinizerreally was wondering how to edit those dozens of bookmarks from maemo to megoo (or whatever it's called)23:38
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septiqlcuk: i bricked my second (restored) n900, it now loops on the nokia logo (backlight switched off)23:40
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infobotSend email to with details if you believe that you have bricked your ipaq23:41
DocScrutinizerprobably you should ~flash23:42
septiqDocScrutinizer: where is the app for OSX ?23:42
DocScrutinizerand observe the very serious warning about low battery and flashing23:42
DocScrutinizersorry, I'm ther only person here who got NO apple branded devices23:43
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DocScrutinizerI guess ~flash will tell you all you need23:43
septiqDocScrutinizer: i followed all steps usb connected23:43
infobotmethinks flashing is
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septiqi removed/replaced the battery, now backlight shines on the nokia logo and the led is white,then the devices turns off23:45
DocScrutinizererr what?23:45
DocScrutinizerI suppose it does that when you try to switch it on, no?23:46
DocScrutinizerso what happens when you DO NOT try to switch it on, just connect it to NOKIA ORIGINAL wallcharger?23:46
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DocScrutinizerhonestly your battery simply is flat23:47
DocScrutinizerif you managed to get a proper clean rootfs on N900, then just recharge it *without switching on* until green light. If you have managed to get both a flat battery AND a borked rootfs, then you are in a severe pinch23:48
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infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover23:51
DocScrutinizerthis ONLY works with PROPER rootfs23:51
septiqDocScrutinizer: actually i have just flashed my rootfs with BackupMenu so it may be the issue23:53
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septiqDocScrutinizer: it is now charging (orange led) and constantly rebooting (backlight off, short vibration every minute)23:54
DocScrutinizerthat's actually DIScharging your batery23:54
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septiqi have another charged battery will try with it23:55
LJrN900discharge DocScrutinizer's brains23:55
DocScrutinizerand with flat battery and borked rootfs you neither can charge battery any more, nor can you flash a proper rootfs23:55
septiqDocScrutinizer: i have a 2nd device23:56
LJrN900DocScrutinizer, can boot rescue image w/ BME23:56
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septiqLJrN900: BME ?23:57
LJrN900septiq, battery charger23:57
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DocScrutinizerLJrN900: rescue image??23:57
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septiqi'm on the way to flash my n900 device using maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386, my device is french so i will use RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin image, right ?23:59
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