IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-09-29

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nox-	DocScrutinizer, :)	00:01
nox-	what other apps are affected?	00:01
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DocScrutinizer	dunno, probably quite some	00:02
DocScrutinizer	ahh, and for the 'status bar applet', this is simpler: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/ext_kb_repeat_enabled --type boolean true	00:03
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nox-	yes, but maybe i want to switch back to the original behaviour sometime... (tho that hasnt happened yet)	00:04
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DocScrutinizer	grr wiki is down?	00:05
DocScrutinizer	aah, no. After 5 times clicking save and waiting 90s, it finally saved the page	00:06
DocScrutinizer	nox-: s/true/false/ if you ever want to go back	00:06
nox-	DocScrutinizer, would x apps be affected by the return key problem too? bc otherwise i guess one could just patch xterm to return a normal return character in keypad mode (or just ignore ks/ke completely?)	00:07
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nox-	DocScrutinizer, yes i meant `easily w/o having to remember a long command' :)	00:08
dRbiG	anyone any idea how to rebuild the app menu list?	00:08
DocScrutinizer	why patch xterm, if you can fix the mapping?	00:08
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nox-	DocScrutinizer, sure if that works...	00:09
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DocScrutinizer	tbh I fear you have to UNpatch xterm, to work correctly with normal CR	00:10
nox-	DocScrutinizer, i just see that keypad return in an xterm on my desktop pc doesnt send those weird esc sequences either...	00:10
nox-	in less i mean	00:11
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* lardman worries that qtcreator.bin is sat at 100%+ CPU usage still		00:11
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DocScrutinizer	nox-: I have no idea what exactly has been screwed there, but obviously they did it thoroughly	00:12
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nox-	DocScrutinizer, this only happens in less bc less sends ks/ke, and i dont know how useful keypad mode is on n900's spartan kbd anyway :)	00:12
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DocScrutinizer	nox-: eh? it quite obviously affects every app that uses raw keycodes	00:13
nox-	ah, out of xterm too?	00:13
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DocScrutinizer	such as editors, IRC clients :-), several cmdline programs like less and others that wait for keystrokes	00:14
nox-	console ones?	00:15
nox-	or gui?	00:15
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DocScrutinizer	no idea	00:15
nox-	hm	00:15
DocScrutinizer	I'm talking bout terminal here	00:15
nox-	ah	00:15
nox-	well there the breakage seems to be in keypad mode	00:16
DocScrutinizer	I expect we'll see a can of worms popping open if this ever gets fixed properly	00:16
nox-	:)	00:16
DocScrutinizer	heard about vnc and whatnot having problems, and once it's fixed at rootcause level, all the apps that work now will break then :-S	00:17
nox-	but if this affects terminal apps only it could be patched in xterm	00:17
nox-	oh	00:17
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DocScrutinizer	a typical case of "we did it wrong for xy on 770 back in 1990, so let's keep backward compatibility and mess up everything so it all behaves similarly fubar"	00:18
nox-	heh	00:18
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DocScrutinizer	then call this "differentiation" :-P	00:19
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delt	@topic (extras repo) which would be why the "maemo-extras" is disabled (greyed out) on the tablet? wild guess -)	00:20
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DocScrutinizer	nope, usually it gets red when an error occurs	00:21
DocScrutinizer	not disabled	00:21
DocScrutinizer	iirc	00:21
* ShadowJK cleaned sim card contacts with some unknown heavy solvent		00:22
DocScrutinizer	eew	00:22
delt	(connected to charger) ... i just saw it a minute ago, 3 other "catalogs" and the 4th one maemo-extras greyed out	00:23
ShadowJK	seems to vaguely work... back batt seems stone dead though	00:23
DocScrutinizer	the rubber method is clearly the nicer one	00:23
delt	(in application manager)	00:23
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, only had tissue and light petroleum derived grease remover	00:24
delt	...so, india has an anti-skype policy, or skype has an anti-india policy?	00:24
jacekowski	sort of both	00:24
jacekowski	india has antiencryption policy	00:24
jacekowski	and skype has antiantiencryption policy	00:24
DocScrutinizer	lol	00:24
delt	ahhhh fixed FINALLY kicks back with a good cold one	00:24
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Arkenoi	skype antiantiencryption is not reliable	00:25
Arkenoi	we need zRTP	00:25
delt	ok, i can ping the tablet (which is charging in the other room)	00:25
nox-	http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/27wiretap.html?_r=1	00:26
delt	so there's no telnet/sshd by default?	00:26
DocScrutinizer	"update partially failed, some repositories aren't available. click details for details" -> "failing repos: maemo.org, tools"	00:26
DocScrutinizer	both got a (!) instead of globe as an icon in catalogs menu	00:27
DocScrutinizer	not grayed out though	00:27
DocScrutinizer	clicking one of the (!) catalogs opens a red error log at bottom of usual settings screen	00:28
DocScrutinizer	not deactivated	00:28
delt	jacekowski: hehehe	00:28
delt	and i suppose india would have retaliated with antiantiantiencryption policy by now? =-)	00:29
delt	1:30 until meeting... time to relax a bit	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	but HAM gone mad about the borked repos? it wants to update load applet 0.4.6-5 to version 0.4.6-5 (sic!)	00:30
delt	boréale beer is good.	00:31
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nox-	delt, see my log, obama now wants something similar...	00:31
nox-	s/log/link/	00:31
infobot	nox- meant: delt, see my link, obama now wants something similar...	00:31
delt	obama bin laden?	00:31
nox-	:)	00:32
delt	<--- REALLY not into politics	00:32
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MohammadAG	politics suck	00:32
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DocScrutinizer	idiots suck	00:32
delt	i just know mr.bean is the new vatican "pope" mascot	00:32
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, politicians* :P	00:33
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delt	http://www.deimos.ca/funnyhaha/nouveau_pape.jpg	00:33
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DocScrutinizer	if encryption is outlawed, we need steganography	00:33
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delt	vaccuums suck	00:34
DocScrutinizer	will they never learn they got no chance to forbid	00:34
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RST38h	Sorry folks, but where do I find postinst scripts?	00:34
RST38h	for installed packages	00:34
DocScrutinizer	in the package?	00:34
MohammadAG	/var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst	00:35
RST38h	thanks	00:35
DocScrutinizer	I'm not sure if they are deleted after successful execution. Maybe look into /var/apt/cache or sth like that	00:35
RST38h	OMG, idiots	00:36
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	00:36
* RST38h spells it: Instinctiv. People. Are. Idiots.		00:36
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DocScrutinizer	idiots suck	00:36
RST38h	They wrote postinst script in freaking PYTHON!	00:36
DocScrutinizer	oh, I already mentioned this	00:36
RST38h	So, no Python,no carrot	00:36
MohammadAG	that'll be $50	00:36
MohammadAG	hand them over, NAO	00:36
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DocScrutinizer	MUHAHAHAAAAHAAAAAAA	00:37
RST38h	Have you mentioned it in their thread?	00:37
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RST38h	Actually, to be exact, you can insert their carrot all right, but its removal is somewhat complicated	00:37
MohammadAG	<RST38h> They wrote postinst script in freaking PYTHON!	00:37
DocScrutinizer	people's thread?	00:37
MohammadAG	LMFAO	00:37
marmoute	RST38h: for what package is it ?	00:37
nox-	there's a famous quote, `if privacy is outlawed only outlaws will have privacy'	00:37
nox-	:)	00:37
RST38h	instinctiv	00:37
MohammadAG	infobot, $50	00:37
* infobot takes the cash and sucks mohammadag off		00:37
delt	infobot, $0.05	00:38
DocScrutinizer	nox-: exactly	00:38
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delt	nox: heard that one about guns, but guess it holds true for anything, heh	00:39
MohammadAG	night peeps	00:39
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delt	pight neeps MohammadAG	00:39
DocScrutinizer	nox-: until recently USA just forbid exporting of PGP code, so their ECHELON can better do industry spy on western europe countries. Now they gone mad and forbid for their own people :-S	00:40
* RST38h gathers some rotten tomatoes and heads to the tmo		00:40
nox-	DocScrutinizer, oh yeah the 56bit des and `encryption == munitions' nonsense...	00:41
delt	human. politics. are. a. failure. 6000 years of history have proven that time and time again and countless times again and again	00:41
lardman	night chaps	00:41
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DocScrutinizer	plus the NSA key in windows :-P	00:41
nox-	right	00:41
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delt	mkay, so let's say i want to compile /usr/src/myfavoriteproject/ to run it on the n810 ..... i need a sdk right?	00:42
DocScrutinizer	which has been explained with even higher plausibility than the whole UFO nonsense	00:42
nox-	haha	00:43
DocScrutinizer	wut? /usr/src ??	00:43
delt	or /tmp/src/whateverproject	00:43
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DocScrutinizer	I suggest first thing you do is copy it to ~/myproj/src	00:44
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delt	yeah, /usr/src only has a very few select projects =) (which my normal user account have rwx of course)	00:44
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delt	s/have/has/	00:45
infobot	delt meant: yeah, /usr/src only has a very few select projects =) (which my normal user account has rwx of course)	00:45
DocScrutinizer	you're not supposed to have any w on /usr	00:45
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delt	so root is in trouble....	00:45
DocScrutinizer	actually nobody usually has to write to /usr, you could even mount r/o	00:45
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delt	yeah, someone else told me that not long ago.	00:46
DocScrutinizer	~optification	00:46
infobot	i heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3	00:46
DocScrutinizer	see links up ther	00:46
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delt	tbh im the only one using my entire network (this side of the gateway) so unless someone guesses the exact name of something in /usr/src and comes up with some http hack that exploits it through apache or something similar...	00:47
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ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, thanks! cleaning contacts has made it hellovalot more stable	00:47
delt	but, yeah i admit, its still a kind of bad habit if i become a network admin some day	00:47
DocScrutinizer	just in case you didn't know (and as it seems I'm the last person on this planet to remember) usr is not user, it's something like unix system resources	00:48
delt	s/become/am hired as/	00:48
infobot	delt meant: but, yeah i admit, its still a kind of bad habit if i am hired as a network admin some day	00:48
DocScrutinizer	even supplementary	00:48
DocScrutinizer	or sharable	00:49
sivang	DocScrutinizer: I always knew it wasn't user, but did not know what it is	00:49
delt	my unix classes were in french, they never taught us that :/	00:49
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delt	and being ignorant, i always assumed it meant "user"	00:50
delt	so, me learn other thing new today!	00:51
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sivang	how does sb manages to run autotools stuff unmodified for cross compile? I found and old slideswork the explains that this is what makes cross complication not hard.	00:51
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: :)	00:51
sivang	ShadowJK: address book?	00:52
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sivang	"Autotools-based build scripts can be run on Scratchbox without modification	00:52
sivang	when building for the target	00:52
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sivang	"	00:52
delt	so, to cross compile /tmp/src/someproject/ to install on the tablet... i need a SDK right?	00:52
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: unvarnished paper (such as of some business cards) is a really good contact cleaner	00:52
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DocScrutinizer	hard and rough enough for dirt, still gentle to contacts	00:53
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sivang	delt: yes, either scratchbox or NokiaQtSDK	00:53
DocScrutinizer	you won't need the SDK for long. your /tmp project will be gone after next boot :-D	00:54
delt	Qt as in, the kde widget kit?	00:54
delt	of my pc?	00:54
delt	not /tmp on the n810!!	00:55
ShadowJK	sivang, what?	00:55
sivang	delt: you install NokiaQtSDK onto te host, the pc	00:55
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DocScrutinizer	delt: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#TMPTEMPORARYFILES	00:55
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sivang	ShadowJK: "cleaning contacts" -> I thought it was in osso-addressbook	00:56
ShadowJK	sivang, no gprs was dropping all the time, and also signal alltogether	00:56
delt	and it modifies my /etc/rc.* stuff to rm -rf /tmp/* on boot?	00:56
DocScrutinizer	delt: even worse: Programs must not assume that any files or directories in /tmp are preserved between invocations of the program.	00:56
ShadowJK	I cleaned the physical contacts on the physical sim card	00:56
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delt	DocScrutinizer: even my shell scripts don't	00:56
sivang	ShadowJK: ah!	00:56
sivang	delt: why do you want to put your source in /tmp ?	00:57
delt	sivang: to compile, install, and rm -rf	00:57
DocScrutinizer	yeah, it's complete nonsense	00:57
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delt	i even (usually) have a /tmp/src/ directory	00:57
DrWilken	Hi, anybody looking into the Extras repository problem?	00:57
DocScrutinizer	ouch	00:57
DocScrutinizer	DrWilken: /topic	00:58
delt	DocScrutinizer: that "ouch" has anything to do with my /tmp/src ...by any chance?	00:58
delt	oh ok	00:58
DocScrutinizer	lol	00:58
DocScrutinizer	delt: of course	00:58
DrWilken	:D	00:58
DocScrutinizer	what else	00:58
delt	so ~/src/myproject..... DUCK	00:58
lindi-	delt: /tmp/src kind of fails in a multiuser system :)	00:58
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delt	OK, I KNOW im not supposed to have read, write, or execute access on my own ~ !!!!!!	00:59
* DocScrutinizer suggests ~/myproject/src		00:59
DocScrutinizer	or ~/projects/myproj/src	00:59
delt	now lets say several user accounts need to work on that	00:59
nox-	then you use a vcs	00:59
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DrWilken	I'm guessing that's a yes then... ;) C y'all...	01:00
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DocScrutinizer	then create a pseudouser in /home/ourProj	01:00
delt	nox-: is that a typo and you meant "cvs"??	01:00
DocScrutinizer	and add this pseudouser to every team menbers groups	01:01
delt	on the same machine/server let's say =)	01:01
lindi-	delt: version control system, not just cvs but something else too	01:01
nox-	delt, actually not, but cvs is one of them (an old one tho :)	01:01
sivang	delt: vcs is "versoin control system"	01:02
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delt	except the c stands for concurrent, or else it wouldnt make sense in normal spoken/written english	01:02
delt	anymore than sivang's last sentence	01:02
delt	:)	01:02
sivang	oh right :)	01:02
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nox-	but yeah i meant version control system	01:03
nox-	cvs, svn, git, hg...	01:03
sivang	bzr	01:03
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nox-	that too	01:03
DocScrutinizer	:-)	01:04
delt	hg is mercurial right?	01:04
nox-	yeah	01:04
sivang	yep	01:04
sivang	damn good one	01:04
delt	so NokiaQtSDK .... Qt means the GUI toolkit (as used by kde)??	01:04
DocScrutinizer	yep, basically	01:04
sivang	delt: not only for GUI, it is a full abstraction on top of the underlying platform	01:04
delt	yeah, thats what we're using for schism tracker... works quite well.	01:04
delt	and maemo's UI runs on top of that?	01:05
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DocScrutinizer	eventually	01:05
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sivang	delt: not quite it is actually using gtk+ in the core, and apps are encouraged to use qt	01:05
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sivang	is this right ?	01:05
DocScrutinizer	so with Qt you got the future	01:05
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delt	eventually as in "somewhere in the food chain" or as in "we're working on fucking everything up"....?	01:05
sivang	delt: ?	01:05
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sivang	interestingly this slides say that SB2 support work is ongoing.	01:06
sivang	DocScrutinizer: is that so?	01:06
delt	personally i prefer gtk apps over kde/qt, and i also prefer to write in good old standard C compared to this mutant hideous deformed monstrosity called C++	01:07
DocScrutinizer	no idea	01:07
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DocScrutinizer	hmm	01:07
sivang	delt: actually, gtk is not standard C per se ;)	01:07
DocScrutinizer	and Qt doesn't force you in a all C++ style either	01:08
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sivang	delt: yes, it is actually adding/modifying standard C++ to be more like a late binding language, some of the things there remind me of niceties in Python as an example	01:09
delt	point taken into account, and to be revised/considered sometime in the next millenia.	01:09
sivang	DocScrutinizer: we should work in Forum Nokia ;)	01:09
* DocScrutinizer sighs		01:09
DocScrutinizer	we should receive a care packet from Nokia every 3 days, if we even considered to do	01:10
sivang	DocScrutinizer: care, as in social care? ;)	01:10
DocScrutinizer	as in post-WW-II	01:10
sivang	hehe	01:10
DocScrutinizer	with some candybars, a glass of honey, some coffee and cigarettes	01:11
delt	and beer	01:11
DocScrutinizer	yessss	01:11
sivang	DocScrutinizer: that's a bit harsh though don't you think?	01:11
sivang	;)	01:11
DocScrutinizer	though I think I don't like the beer Nokia will send from Helsinki	01:11
* sivang heard the beer is quite good.		01:12
DocScrutinizer	got better one here, from my brewery next door	01:12
delt	except cigarettes, i dont smoke =) though ppl smoking around me never bothers me	01:12
sivang	DocScrutinizer: well, it is hard to top you - you are in Scotland.	01:12
DocScrutinizer	err nope	01:13
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delt	<--- in Scotlanada	01:13
sivang	hrm	01:13
DocScrutinizer	Franconia	01:13
sivang	DocScrutinizer: ah , okay	01:13
sivang	I was confusing you with SpeedEvil ?	01:13
DocScrutinizer	the area where a brewery per 1000 residents or so	01:13
DocScrutinizer	yup	01:13
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* sivang wonders what ended with the gconf discussion, I had to run away from the office just then.		01:14
sivang	DocScrutinizer: where in Franconia?	01:15
DocScrutinizer	probably here in franconia we got more breweries than all the rest of this planet together	01:15
DocScrutinizer	Mittelfranken	01:15
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: close to the french border?	01:15
delt	spricht jemand hier deutsch?	01:15
DocScrutinizer	~weather EDDN	01:15
infobot	Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.09.28 2150 UTC; Dew Point: 50 F (10 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 100%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 50 F (10 C); Visibility: 4 mile(s); Wind: from the W (280 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT)	01:16
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delt	ich hab ein wenig gelernt	01:16
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DocScrutinizer	nope, not even infobot	01:16
sivang	DocScrutinizer: 10c, great	01:16
DocScrutinizer	brrrrrr	01:16
sivang	DocScrutinizer: don;t ask, I'm a winter type.	01:16
delt	he is, raeli?	01:17
delt	hehe	01:17
delt	"use a pun, go to jail" :D	01:17
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delt	ok, better get ready for meeting... cya all	01:19
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DocScrutinizer	cya	01:19
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sivang	what a nice pic- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_BW_4.JPG	01:22
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* sivang -> (night, sleep);		01:29
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h4waii	Argh. 4 random reboots today.	01:30
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lolloo	guys, how can I know if someone is connected to my SSH server on my N900?	01:59
mgedmin	would 'w' tell you?	02:00
jpinx-eeepc	users ?	02:00
mgedmin	or 'who'?	02:00
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kerio	why...	02:00
kerio	you should never doubt that	02:01
mgedmin	don't make fun of hoary unix command names	02:01
jpinx-eeepc	lolloo: how would they connect ? Bluetooth?	02:01
kerio	if you are, then it means that your security is crap	02:01
lolloo	internet	02:01
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kerio	mgedmin: huh? i know of w and users	02:01
mgedmin	I didn't know of /usr/bin/users, but I know of /usr/bin/who	02:02
lolloo	if they are connected to me wirelessly via SSH how would I Know their IP?	02:02
mgedmin	w/who will tell you	02:02
h4waii	netstat	02:02
lolloo	shall I type it in X-terminal?	02:03
nidO	yes, just type who	02:03
nidO	and it shows you logged in sessions	02:03
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lolloo	who command didnt show my friends IP	02:05
lolloo	he is connected right now via SSH	02:05
kerio	netstat	02:06
lolloo	but I cant seem to see his IP	02:06
kerio	hack into his gibson!	02:06
lolloo	ok my friend	02:06
lolloo	hahaha	02:06
lolloo	it show alot of things	02:07
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* timeless_pidgin waves from um... Liverpool?		02:16
lcuk	hi timeless_pidgin	02:16
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nox-	where are you going to timeless_pidgin?	02:16
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lcuk	lukes girlfriend lives 1 click away form liverpool	02:17
h4waii	lolloo, so look for whichever port you're running SSHd bound on	02:18
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lcuk	rotation rotation rotation	02:20
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lolloo	ok h4waii, I know the port... how do I list the IPs connected to that port?	02:22
mgedmin	netstat -tn	02:22
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mgedmin	(without the -n it will likely show hostnames)	02:22
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kerio	lcuk: <.< v.v >.> ^.^	02:25
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lolloo	yes thank you!	02:25
lcuk	g:D konami code?	02:25
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kerio	no, it's a rotation	02:25
lcuk	indeed	02:25
lcuk	i need to go rotation of bitmaps so i can rotate everylike like the sketches :)	02:26
lcuk	and my god whiskey is strong	02:26
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kerio	don't code while drunk!	02:26
lcuk	even if its new code?	02:26
kerio	that's how windows ME started	02:26
lcuk	:)	02:26
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lcuk	i have been blockin on a certain function for a while	02:27
* lcuk attacks it		02:27
ShadowJK	got kicked offline again for 1.5h, only reboot worked :/	02:27
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* lcuk has been rebooting his brain		02:28
lcuk	well that wasnt so bad i managed to loginto scratchbox	02:29
timeless_pidgin	Hi lcuk	02:31
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lcuk	\o timeless_pidgin	02:32
lcuk	how was ireland	02:33
* ShadowJK suspects if he orders new sim card from operator, they'll silently drop multisim and data service... :/		02:33
* SpeedEvil holds up a tube of conductive epoxy.		02:36
* SpeedEvil wonders if you can get conductive hotmelt.		02:36
timeless_pidgin	Ireland was good	02:36
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timeless_pidgin	I'll try to put up photos at some point	02:36
lcuk	cool timeless_pidgin	02:37
lcuk	how long are you in liverpool for?	02:37
timeless_pidgin	Through Sunday or thereabouts	02:37
lcuk	where is next on the agenda?	02:39
lcuk	btw, someone mentioned mxr was giving strange warnings	02:39
lcuk	in the head of each result page	02:39
lcuk	did not prevent the contents, but showed a big "Warning:" label	02:39
lcuk	did not show on the meego mxr	02:40
lcuk	think it was DocScrutinizer	02:40
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lcuk	did i mention how strong this whiskey was?	02:41
b-man`	lol	02:43
lcuk	hey b-man`	02:44
ieatlint	mmm, whiskey	02:44
b-man`	hello lcuk :)	02:44
lcuk	hows the traffic light	02:44
* b-man` just got back from a cross-country meet and is exhausted		02:44
b-man`	LOL	02:44
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lcuk	whu cant i have an irc to chat system like #fmcg has \@/ i could type with my eyes closed	02:45
b-man`	_everyone_ is making jokes about my traffic light xD	02:45
lcuk	:D	02:45
lcuk	they are cool	02:45
lcuk	you got yourself something awesome	02:45
b-man`	yeah :)	02:45
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b-man`	brb - dinner	02:47
lcuk	c++ is strange	02:47
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DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: mxr is really broken	02:48
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, unsynced?	02:48
DocScrutinizer51	it doesn't just show warnings, it also shows "fatal" on search pages, and consequently also has not a single refernce href on any function or var	02:49
DocScrutinizer51	basically the x in mxr lost its meaning	02:50
* lcuk shakes head that this drink is far too much alcohol for one human to cope with		02:50
lcuk	ok well I am sure timeless_pidgin will try and solve it as soon as possible :)	02:50
lcuk	but he is afc for a while	02:51
lcuk	i am heading into code	02:51
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* GeneralAntilles yawns.		03:03
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timeless_pidgin	Hrm	03:25
timeless_pidgin	If someone happens to know when the xref broke, that'd help	03:25
timeless_pidgin	Also is it broken for all roots or only some?	03:25
timeless_pidgin	But please catalogue answers and send me an email. I won't look before next week.	03:26
timeless_pidgin	Sorry	03:26
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kwtm	Hi. I'm trying to remap my N900 keyboard to contain the commonly used symbols <>[]{}`\|^~@% . Am I able to use Shift-Sym as a key combination to produce new symbols?	03:27
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Rangasameee	Dudes, I have a proposition for buying a n900 and n810	03:43
Rangasameee	n810 is half the price ($140)	03:43
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kwtm	Rangasameee: No contest: n900 is much more useful since you can get a cell phone data plan. If you can't, then ok to consider 810.	03:43
Rangasameee	Do you think I will help get enough performance by installing maemo over it (N810)	03:44
Rangasameee	I already have droid	03:44
Rangasameee	I want to play with new builds of maemo/meego	03:44
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Rangasameee	kwtm, do you think n810 will be slow for maemo	03:45
kwtm	Good question. I don't know. Since it comes with Maemo (4, I think), I would say it shouldn't be too bad.	03:45
kwtm	For me it's more a matter of the hardware. But I have no experience with the 810, so you should check out the forums for comments.	03:46
kwtm	Or come back to the channel in about 6 - 12 hours; it will be much more active.	03:46
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Rangasameee	kwtm, Kool, I will check it	03:50
Rangasameee	what are you using?	03:50
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kwtm	n900. Go anywhere, be connected. If I wanted to be restricted to someone's wifi area, I would have gotten a netbook.	04:03
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pupnik	i'd like to be on triton worrying about network reception, directing new robot mining operations	04:04
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kwtm	You could use your n900 on triton, but the roaming charges would kill you.	04:05
johnx	Rangasameee, you want an N900 if you're planning to play with meego, unless you're willing to wait for the Nokia N9 or whatever	04:05
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kwtm	YESSSS!!!! YES YES Yes Yes yes yes . . .	04:11
kwtm	er, don't mind me.	04:11
* kwtm is finally able to get his N900 keyboard to make sense.		04:11
* kwtm wonders why no one else seems to be using Shift-Alt to generate a whole new set of characters without resorting to that Alt-Sym key to call up the virtual keyboard.		04:12
* kwtm is getting addicted to using emotes instead of actually talking.		04:13
pupnik	shft-alt eh	04:13
pupnik	nice	04:13
pupnik	i've added a few of my own	04:14
* kwtm no longer needs to worry about having to type [c] [d] [space] [Shift] [Sym] [tilde] [tilde] just to navigate to the home dir		04:14
pupnik	what do you type?	04:14
kwtm	Now I type [Shift] [Alt] [y]. But I can press Shift/Alt at the same time.	04:15
pupnik	nice	04:15
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kwtm	Also, when I call up those symbols, I don't get the whole screen turning blurry and then being overlaid by a table of symbols just to type one symbol.	04:16
pupnik	yeah i never used that	04:16
kwtm	--which I have to type TWICE because the first time it thinks the tilde is some accent I'm going to add to a letter.	04:16
kwtm	---- which doesn't make sense because that accent is only ever added to the letter N. So why doesn't it just type the letter n-with-tilde already? I mean, am I going to type tilde-f or something???	04:17
pupnik	hmm i don't have to do that -	04:17
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kwtm	I also took the liberty of removing the at-sign from the space bar. I mean, the space bar should be space bar whether you're holding down shift or alt or whatever.	04:17
pupnik	i'm torn between the n900 and the mini-laptop	04:17
pupnik	ummmmm	04:18
kwtm	pupnik: Does the mini-laptop have DVD drive?	04:18
pupnik	no	04:18
ShadowJK	which minilaptop?	04:18
pupnik	x200t	04:18
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* nox- finally got the fennec 2.0 nightly installed...		04:25
pupnik	how is it nox?	04:27
nox-	so far seems alright	04:27
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pupnik	you know, a 4.5 vs 3.5 inch screen could give 1024x600 resolution with similar density to the n900	04:29
pupnik	imagine that extra inch when webbrowsng	04:30
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luke-jr_	pupnik: imagine? you mean just look at a N810?	04:32
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johnx	he said an inch, not half an inch	04:33
johnx	anyways, it's kinda useless without more pixels as well	04:34
luke-jr_	nonsense	04:34
luke-jr_	resolution only affects quality	04:34
johnx	and quality affects legibility	04:35
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ShadowJK	the n810 screen is nicer to look at, but it could also be because the os lets you fullscreen everything and doesnt waste space on huge ui elements	04:37
johnx	never really had much time with an N810, just my N800. the N810 was transflective, right?	04:38
ShadowJK	yes	04:39
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johnx	I'd actually be perfectly happy with a bigger screen	04:40
johnx	seems to be the direction things are swinging again	04:41
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delt	hello	04:48
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johnx	evenin'	04:48
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delt	so, thanks to you guys i have a working n810 instead of a brick =)	04:49
kwtm	I get a bigger screen by holding my n900 closer to my eye.	04:49
johnx	delt, woo!	04:49
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kwtm	In fact, I have a bigscreen TV. But only for my left eye. :)	04:49
delt	haha, im near sighted, so i prefer a smaller screen closer to my eye(s)	04:49
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delt	i like watching movies comfortably on my bed with the laptop on my stomach =) much better than even a huge tv more than 2 meters away	04:50
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delt	so, the thing is still in "r&d mode". pros/cons of leaving it like that vs. putting it back to normal?	04:51
kwtm	Yeah, baby!!! Escape key with Shift-Alt-Bksp instead of having to tap that screen!	04:51
johnx	kwtm, so I bet you hate '3D' TVs and movies just about as much as I do :)	04:51
GeneralAntilles	Why hate 3D movies?	04:52
johnx	delt, heard rumors it ends up leaving some clocks on during idle and marginally reduces battery life. not sure if that's true or not	04:52
delt	"3D" as in crt? hehe	04:52
kwtm	johnx: I guess for 3d movies I'd buy another N900, hold it up to my right eye, and then make sure the two N900's are in sync.	04:52
delt	ah ok thanks for the heads-up	04:52
kwtm	I would use duct tape to tape it to my head since it can get tiring holding up the two N900's.	04:52
GeneralAntilles	3D is only good in a movie theater.	04:53
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GeneralAntilles	The tech sucks too much for it to be non-stressful in home usage.	04:53
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I don't have stereoscopic vision and I already have bulky glasses, so I get to pay extra to wear uncomfortable glasses	04:53
kwtm	johnx: Lasik?	04:53
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johnx	detached retina a while ago	04:53
GeneralAntilles	johnx, oh really?	04:53
GeneralAntilles	Ouch.	04:53
johnx	meh	04:53
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johnx	it's like totally not a big deal, except 3D movies	04:54
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delt	hum, ok now to get rid of this ridiculous vfat partition and use that as a root fs.....	04:54
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delt	kernel supports ext2/3fs?	04:54
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johnx	as a module	04:55
delt	(the default one in latest os2008)	04:55
delt	gaaah	04:55
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delt	the purpose of that being, other than NOT being able to use an ext3 root fs??	04:55
delt	and saving like 4kb of kernel space	04:55
johnx	is it really 4K? I think you made that number up ;)	04:56
delt	no, the number 4096 existed before	04:56
delt	i just pulled it out of my ass as the size of the ext2/3 driver =)	04:56
johnx	anyways, it doesn't matter. it's on the initrd anyways	04:56
delt	oh ok	04:57
johnx	there are a couple good tutorials on booting from SD	04:57
delt	so it CAN use an ext3 root filesystem	04:57
johnx	yeah	04:57
johnx	there's a script that does it for you	04:57
johnx	can't remember what it's called	04:57
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delt	oh, i would like to take a look at it	04:58
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delt	bouncing baby boioioiooiiiiing	04:58
delt	kick him see if he bounces again :D	04:59
delt	question: n810 working normally, but plugged to USB, does it still use up the battery?	05:00
johnx	it doesn't charge over USB, if that's what you're asking	05:00
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delt	yeah, determined that yesterday. btw this is completely retarded, but moderately amusing http://communitizer.blogspot.com/2008/04/self-charging-n810.html	05:01
johnx	heh. yeah. saw that a bit ago :)	05:02
kwtm	johnx: Detached retina probably no big deal because you have another one, but that one has now become ULTRA precious. Take care!	05:02
johnx	kwtm, I do. and I'm totally paranoid about it too	05:02
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delt	johnx: what happened to your eye?	05:03
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kwtm	DOn't blame you for no lasik. Just curious --answering is optional: detached retina just because of the way you are, or something happened (injury, external illness)?	05:03
johnx	delt, retina detached. kwtm happens more often to people who are extremely nearsighted	05:03
delt	unknown command line option --answering-is-optional	05:03
johnx	it's because of the shape of the eye	05:04
delt	kwtm.. isnt that kwtm's nick?	05:04
kwtm	Hey, how did you know that kwtm's nick was kwtm?	05:04
johnx	as far as I can tell, it "just happened", though maybe I got hit in the head the day or so before I noticed it	05:04
kwtm	Oh, I see what you're saing. That phrase was addressed to me, delt.	05:04
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delt	kwtm: because whoever it is, it matches his/her/its nick.	05:05
delt	ah ok	05:05
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kwtm	So, johnx, family Hx of glaucoma, I'm guessing?	05:05
delt	thought like, hit autocomplete key by mistake or something	05:05
johnx	kwtm, nope, AFAIK	05:05
johnx	burned up too much luck :)	05:06
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johnx	delt, I think this might be the most recent release of the 'clone rootfs to sd card' script: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=25714	05:08
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delt	thanks noted	05:08
johnx	oh, and backup before you run that script :)	05:09
johnx	there is a non-zero chance that something can go wrong	05:10
delt	what's on the 2gb internal flash of the n810 by default (factory shipping)	05:11
johnx	some sample files	05:11
johnx	but it's where user files get saved mostly	05:11
johnx	AFAIR	05:11
delt	oh johnx 22:09 < delt> thanks noted	05:11
johnx	maps get put there as well	05:12
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delt	dunno if you caught that before quit	05:12
johnx	got back just in time for it	05:12
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delt	oh, swap is mostly a file on the 2gb vfat partition?	05:13
delt	s/mostly/normally/	05:13
infobot	delt meant: oh, swap is normally a file on the 2gb vfat partition?	05:13
johnx	yeah	05:13
johnx	(I spend so much time in the console that ctrl+w means ;backspace a word' in my head not 'close a tab/window')	05:13
delt	ok, what if i decide to split that in 3..... a 256mb swap, a 64mb windows partition, and the rest an ext3fs	05:14
delt	then use that as root fs	05:14
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johnx	then there isn't a script for you and you have to write your bootmenu file manually	05:15
delt	which is what i normally do, but i'm not as familiar with this hardware.	05:15
johnx	it's the boot process mostly that's weird	05:15
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delt	anyway, taking a good look at the script you linked above, thanks btw	05:16
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delt	"There are internal (mmcblk0) and external (mmcblk1)" so this is specific to the 810?	05:17
johnx	kinda	05:17
johnx	the N800 has two SD card slots instead of a soldered-on sd chip and a miniSD slot	05:18
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delt	yeah, and they kept the same device names on the n810, first "slot" being the internal chip	05:19
johnx	yup	05:19
delt	so, time to install sshd and do some reading.....	05:19
johnx	they also kept the same SoC, and most of the same board	05:19
johnx	yup	05:19
delt	SoC == System On Chip?	05:20
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johnx	yeah	05:21
delt	fm radio would have been nice, but :) so would star trek voyager technology heh	05:21
nox-	ah thats only in n900?	05:21
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nox-	(fm radio)	05:21
delt	ok, be back later to report failure.	05:22
delt	uh, or sucksess.	05:22
johnx	nox-, N800 and N900 :)	05:22
nox-	but not 810?	05:22
johnx	correct	05:23
nox-	huh	05:23
johnx	but only N900 got that awesome FM transmitter	05:23
nox-	heh	05:23
* nox- not even tested that one yet, does it sound alright?		05:23
johnx	yup, if it's close to the radio antenna and you have a good 'empty' station to broadcast over and you point the N900 the 'right' direction	05:24
johnx	which is to say, for me it works great. other people don't always have the best luck it seems	05:24
nox-	audio quality is good too?	05:25
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johnx	for FM radio shrugs	05:25
nox-	:)	05:25
nox-	well some ppl have fancy car stereos etc...	05:25
johnx	my tape deck doesn't even work	05:26
johnx	I waited long enough that I have two pieces of tech that work perfectly together :D	05:26
nox-	hehe	05:26
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kwtm	johnx: This is before or after "apt-get install fm-boost"?	05:34
johnx	before	05:34
johnx	I did do the thing to prevent it from cutting off the FM transmitter when something (like a charger) is plugged in, but it appears they did that for good reason :)	05:35
johnx	charging while it's FM broadcasting does seem to interfere with the FM signal (static and such)	05:35
kwtm	It's a bit unusual --FM usually captures well, so that a signal of strength 5 from a medium-distance source will be easily overpowered by a signal of strength 5.2 from a closer source. It's not fade-in / fade-out like AM.	05:36
kwtm	What about the infrared, speaking of peripheral connections? I can't seem to get my ir to work, but I can't confirm whether it's software or hardware or my IR lens is just dirty.	05:37
delt	fm broadcasting?	05:37
delt	n900?	05:37
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johnx	delt, yeah. well fm "transmitter"	05:38
kwtm	n900 has a FM transmitter. Did you not know?	05:38
johnx	broad is a bit generous in this case	05:38
delt	johnx: sounds any good at like, a few meters range?	05:38
johnx	sounds good from maybe 1.5 - 2m	05:38
microlith	kwtm: what about the IR is giving you trouble?	05:38
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johnx	as long as the N900 is parallel to the antenna	05:38
delt	ah. bronadcasts in stereo?	05:39
johnx	kwtm, do you have a camera you can aim at the IR transmitter to see the light?	05:39
johnx	delt, i think so	05:39
kwtm	Installed "PyKake" which failed to control my Canon SLR camera. Now I need some other way to test to see where it failed.	05:39
delt	only thing missing then would be a line-in other than mic ("other" t/r/s/other socket)	05:39
kwtm	johnx: I have a Canon XTi, but how can I see the light? Is it supposed to show up on some indicator?	05:39
kwtm	delt: Why do you need something other than mic? COuldn't you just hook up whatever it is (e.g. tape player audio out) to the mic in line?	05:40
johnx	kwtm, unless your camera is really well filtered, you should be able to point it at the IR transmitter and look through the viewfinder and see a light	05:40
kwtm	Although I think the mic in is mono.	05:40
kwtm	johnx: What do you mean? The IR led is visible to the naked eye?	05:41
delt	heh, turns out this script does exactly that 22:15 < delt> ok, what if i decide to split that in 3..... a 256mb swap, a 64mb windows partition, and the rest an ext3fs	05:41
johnx	kwtm, visible to your camera :)	05:41
johnx	delt, ah, cool :) never ran it on an N810 ...	05:42
johnx	kwtm, err, sorry, not viewfinder in your case. I mean the LCD preview thing	05:43
kwtm	Ohhhhh!!! I have a real SLR. It doesn't have a "LCD preview" thing.	05:43
johnx	no video mode?	05:44
kwtm	Will it show up on a camera for which the IR remote was not intended?	05:44
johnx	yeah, it's just a function of the camera's CCD being sensitive to infrared	05:44
kwtm	No video mode. When I said "real SLR" I meant "real (cheap) SLR".	05:44
kwtm	That's great! I have a digital camera on .. my .... Nokia ........ N900 ................ um, never mind.	05:45
kwtm	Okay, I'	05:45
johnx	mirror :)	05:45
johnx	maybe two mirrors	05:45
kwtm	Okay, I'll use my Canon Powershot SD1100. (Hey, Canon, do I get some $$ for product placement?)	05:45
johnx	I actually liked the super cut down XTi. Didn't have one but I think that's what my sister has.	05:46
delt	just wondering, how come osso-xterm doesn't obey $DISPLAY env.variable or -display on command line?	05:46
johnx	delt, lots of maemo apps from Nokia don't :)	05:47
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johnx	it's just trying to fit in	05:47
delt	like, to have a term window running from the tablet, but usable on this (pc) screen+keyboard	05:47
johnx	use VNC for that I guess	05:47
johnx	dunno if there's a better option	05:47
delt	is there a vncserver for maemo?	05:48
delt	i know there's a vncviewer, which is cool	05:48
johnx	yeah	05:48
delt	and very practical	05:48
johnx	I think it's in extras	05:48
delt	there is a server too?	05:48
johnx	yes. I think so	05:49
johnx	I think it's in Extras	05:49
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delt	and ssh/sshd is also on my to-install list	05:49
* lcuk makes note that sleep is impossible after whiskey consumption		05:49
johnx	sleep is for the weak	05:52
delt	oh duh maemo-extras was disabled, thats why it was greyed out earlier and not showing up in red when the repo was down	05:52
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kwtm	johnx: Agree that sleep is for the weak. And I am weak about 8 hours a day.	05:53
johnx	sometimes I wish my body felt like sleeping at a normal enough time that I could get 8 hours :)	05:54
johnx	but it's fun to hang out the the guys in EU when they wake up	05:55
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delt	the application manager should show me the contents of all catalogs in tools -> "application catalog" right?	05:55
delt	or do i need to choose one or another?	05:56
johnx	it shows you some of the contents of all of them	05:56
johnx	only packages in a certain category show up in the GUI app manager	05:56
johnx	all of them are available from apt-get though	05:56
delt	when i got it it had stuff preinstalled, and the app manager showed me tons more	05:57
johnx	might have had extras-devel on there as well	05:58
johnx	start with extras though ;)	05:58
delt	wish i could have backed up that too, but there is apparently no way to mount the 256mb useless-root-fs over usb	05:58
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franz_	quick question, where are those battery graphics from: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4891003731_f558a4a0f0_b.jpg	05:59
delt	dude, this is ludicrous. "ALL" shows me exactly 12 items	05:59
franz_	I thought it was black plastic, but they look slightly different	05:59
lcuk	franz_, ask the owner of the picture	06:00
lcuk	delt, what warings/errors does it show	06:00
lcuk	it does sound like you have one or other repository faults	06:00
delt	none, at least not in the ui's main window	06:00
lcuk	thats kinda helpful to yourself	06:00
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delt	meaning...?	06:01
lcuk	fyi, the internal "backup" tool actually backs up both repositories and packages installed lists	06:01
johnx	menu -> tools -> log	06:01
lcuk	whats in the repositories list though menu -> application catalogues	06:02
delt	yeah, but the device was bricked. somehow with r&d mode enabled the 2gb partition showed up as the SECOND partition over usb, and now fresh install it shows up as first partition.	06:02
johnx	lcuk, keep in mind. this is an N810	06:02
lcuk	johnx, ahh	06:03
delt	ah, shows "failed to refresh" on maemo-extras	06:03
delt	with a red X at the left	06:03
lcuk	should give an error code (404 403 etc)	06:03
johnx	so now look at the log	06:03
johnx	tools -> log	06:03
lcuk	i believe the error is listed there	06:03
lcuk	E:Connect_Ur_Wifi	06:04
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delt	W: GPG error (i assume W for Warning?)	06:04
johnx	yeah. that's expected	06:04
johnx	run check for updates again	06:05
johnx	and hit the refresh icon at the bottom right	06:05
delt	E: failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/......... Sub-process gzip returned an error code	06:05
lcuk	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=828888#post828888	06:05
delt	extras repo is back up? (seeing the notice from earlier in the topic got removed)	06:06
lcuk	check that	06:06
lcuk	thats live now	06:06
lcuk	it just popped on vaispy	06:06
lcuk	sounds like m.o is having issues perhaps	06:07
delt	check for updates, refresh, no go :/	06:08
delt	still shows extras as disabled.	06:08
delt	with that item selected, i get the error (same one from the logs) twice under it	06:10
johnx	unrelated: has anyone else noticed that the N800 just felt better in the hand than the N810 or N900 does?	06:10
asj	no	06:11
johnx	and I have my answer :)	06:11
luke-jr_	lol	06:11
luke-jr_	N810 was certainly better than N900	06:12
delt	never held a n800 or a n900 so dunno	06:12
lcuk	n810 had one massive major horrid problem i had to build a whole cradle for	06:12
delt	certainly bulkier than an ipod nano or sandisk e2x0	06:12
lcuk	it was impossible to almost fall asleep at night and hold/move pages nicely	06:12
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delt	lcuk: what do you mean by hold/move pages while falling asleep?	06:16
lcuk	delt, i read a lot	06:16
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delt	ok... so what is "holding" a page?	06:17
lcuk	with my old pocket loox machine, i could grasp device in my knuckle and fall asleep whilst turning pages using its real buttons	06:17
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MrPPS	hey, has anyone else had trouble with the extras repository in the last 12 or so hours?	06:17
delt	YES	06:17
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johnx	heh	06:17
lcuk	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=828888#post828888 << MrPPS	06:17
johnx	heh. perfect time to reflash my N800 :\|	06:17
delt	was in the topic earlier today, and now my tablet cant access it	06:18
delt	which sucks because i would very much have a sshd server on it, and a vnc viewer(+ server if there is one) would be quite welcome as well	06:19
delt	s/very much/very much like to/	06:19
lcuk	delt, it has all (inc server)	06:19
infobot	delt meant: which sucks because i would very much like to have a sshd server on it, and a vnc viewer(+ server if there is one) would be quite welcome as well	06:19
MrPPS	fair enough - so no fix yet?	06:19
* lcuk has another cig then liws back down		06:19
lcuk	lies	06:20
delt	lcuk: sh (xterm) tells me "not found" for ssh and sshd	06:20
delt	16gb mini sd card is on my to-buy-soon list.....	06:21
MrPPS	ah, so its part of the upgrade	06:21
lcuk	delt, you are having repository issues	06:21
lcuk	openssh	06:21
lcuk	is the metpackage	06:21
lcuk	meta	06:22
lcuk	installing both client and server	06:22
MrPPS	so if update manager wont let you edit the repository dist, how do we update to 1.3?	06:22
delt	lcuk: in other words, apt-get openssh?	06:22
delt	without the ? duh	06:22
lcuk	in a generic sense, do not worry about the repository list	06:22
lcuk	nobody needed to change it from fremantle to fremantle1.2 did they :P	06:22
lcuk	(manually)	06:22
johnx	delt, apt-get install openssh	06:23
MrPPS	mine just installed that way :P	06:23
johnx	but it will show up in the list of packages	06:23
MrPPS	how should i edit it back to fremantle	06:23
delt	ah thanks =) been a while since i used debian-like package managers	06:23
lcuk	MrPPS, you dont need to	06:23
* lcuk melts his brain and goes to sleep		06:24
MrPPS	lcuk: if its currently set to 1.2, will 1.2 be symlinked to 1.3 then?	06:24
delt	sigh what if i make a COPY of busybox $ cp busybox su && chmod +s su	06:25
johnx	MrPPS, if you didn't muck with the manually, everything will be taken care of. if you did muck with it, change it back to whatever it was before	06:25
delt	s/$ /$ cd \/bin && /	06:25
johnx	delt, what are you trying to do?	06:25
delt	su root	06:26
delt	but a symlink to busybox can't be +s	06:26
delt	and im not particularly fond of hardlinks, even for regular files	06:26
johnx	so, if what you're suggesting actually works, wouldn't that let anyone with shell access on any linux get root? :)	06:27
delt	oh, editing the /etc/sudo* files appropriately of course	06:27
delt	what was the name of that "gainroot" package?	06:28
johnx	rootsh	06:28
delt	thx. fortunately right now the tablet is still in r+d mode, so it "should" work or so i've read	06:29
johnx	ah, right :)	06:29
johnx	forgot about that	06:29
delt	hmm, says "E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)	06:30
MrPPS	johnx: i didn't "muck" with it manually, but i did add the extras repo's manually after purchasing the phone	06:31
johnx	delt, are you root?	06:31
delt	yeah	06:31
MrPPS	i followed instructions on the website, adding fremantle-1.2 as the dist, and free non-free as the options	06:31
johnx	do you have package manager open?	06:31
delt	well, in that xterm yeah	06:31
delt	oooh duh	06:31
johnx	MrPPS, if it's fremantle-1.2 right now I think you can just change it to fremantle and everything should be fine	06:32
MrPPS	alright, thanks	06:32
johnx	but wasn't extras included by default, just disabled?	06:32
delt	nope, closed app. manager and same error	06:32
johnx	delt: ps aux \| grep apt	06:32
johnx	see if app manager left something behind	06:32
delt	yeah, i just enabled it (after fresh re-flash) and it was disabled	06:32
delt	enabled it, now it seems to not-work just fine	06:33
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delt	gaaaah where is the \| on that keyboard :/	06:33
delt	i figured out pressing the "chr" button (btw, is there any way to configure those extra characters?)	06:34
johnx	add it to the shortcut bar on your xterm	06:34
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delt	tried that on my old install, character "bar" ... didnt work	06:35
delt	with an uppercase or lowercase B... i think i tried both	06:35
johnx	what about pipe?	06:35
johnx	see what it's called on your linux desktop	06:36
delt	first thing that came to mind, didnt work either ... but dont remember if i tried both Pipe and pipe	06:36
johnx	xev and hit the \| key	06:36
delt	"bar" in lowercase	06:37
delt	should be the same in maemo right?	06:37
delt	even though it's a heavily modified X11	06:37
delt	s/it's/it looks like/	06:37
infobot	delt meant: even though it looks like a heavily modified X11	06:37
johnx	yeah, I think	06:38
delt	aha, process "/usr/libexec/apt-worker", root, SWN	06:39
delt	killall apt-worker killed it, no need for kill -9	06:40
delt	reading package lists.... (quickly showed % then "Done")	06:41
delt	Building dependency tree, Reading state information... Done	06:41
johnx	we're ok without the details unless there's a problem :)	06:41
delt	E: Couldn't find package rootfs	06:41
johnx	rootsh	06:41
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delt	FACEPALM can you send me a baseball bat, sledge hammer or something, that would do my head some good	06:42
johnx	:)	06:42
delt	really, excuse me but this is not excusable.	06:43
delt	same with rootsh, E: cant find package rootsh	06:43
johnx	ah, well maybe I was wrong on that one	06:44
* johnx checks		06:44
delt	same with openssh...wtf??	06:44
johnx	apt-get update	06:45
johnx	I still think extras never properly refreshed	06:45
delt	oh, i need a local list of packages...?	06:45
delt	what about 23:42 < delt> reading package lists.... (quickly showed % then "Done")	06:45
johnx	it was reading the local package lists into RAM	06:46
johnx	actually, the apt-worker you killed might have been doing that update ...	06:46
delt	errors about extras again.... then at the end E: some index files failed to download, blahblah	06:47
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johnx	what's the error it says?	06:47
johnx	404? 403? timeout? failed to resolve?	06:48
delt	uh 2sec, changing xterm to a smaller font because this is ridiculous	06:50
delt	and white/grey on black background instead of white background... this is aggressing my eyes	06:50
delt	wish i still had that "droid" font... was perfect for xterm on that screen	06:51
delt	s/font/font pack/	06:51
infobot	delt meant: wish i still had that "droid" font pack... was perfect for xterm on that screen	06:51
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delt	hey, the internal 2gb chip isnt even mounted!!	06:54
delt	was gonna do apt-whatever \| tee some file on there and stick it from the usb drive to my web directory, .... ??	06:54
johnx	is the N810 plugged into your PC?	06:55
delt	yeah, usb cable	06:55
delt	and r+d mode is on	06:55
johnx	can't have the same FS mounted in two places ;)	06:55
delt	i agree with that, but its not mounted on the pc	06:55
johnx	but the N810 can't know that	06:56
johnx	unplug the USB cable and the N810 will remount it	06:56
delt	so there's an auto-mount-unmounter, that checks for usb connection...?	06:56
delt	ah ok	06:56
delt	oh btw, battery meter is still full..... any cmdline to show percentage of charge?	06:56
johnx	think there's an app that does	06:57
johnx	or a dbus request or something	06:57
delt	been what, 2 hours running and plugged on the usb?	06:57
delt	anyway, ill check that later	06:57
delt	ah, there it is.	06:58
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delt	just wondering, what if mmc2 is busy and i plug the usb cable?	07:02
delt	it just doesnt show up as a storage device?	07:03
johnx	correct	07:03
johnx	and your N810 will pop-up some type of warning/error/complaint/plea for help	07:03
delt	heh	07:03
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kwtm	wait, the infobot will actually obey vi commands??	07:05
kwtm	s/wait/Wait/	07:05
infobot	kwtm meant: Wait, the infobot will actually obey vi commands??	07:06
kwtm	s/info/Info/	07:06
infobot	kwtm meant: wait, the Infobot will actually obey vi commands??	07:06
kwtm	s/i/I/g	07:06
infobot	kwtm meant: waIt, the Infobot wIll actually obey vI commands??	07:06
delt	abcde	07:06
delt	s/a/A/ -e /b/B/ -e c/C/	07:06
delt	-e s/a/A/ -e /b/B/ -e c/C/	07:07
johnx	no	07:07
kwtm	s/the$.*$will/THE\1WILL/	07:07
delt	hehe	07:07
johnx	it understands s/a/b/ and s/a/b/g	07:07
kwtm	s/the(.*)will/THE\1WILL/	07:07
delt	http://www.deimos.ca/miscjunk/apt-get.out.txt	07:08
kwtm	s/?./?!/	07:08
kwtm	I think I have to be the last one who spoke.	07:08
kwtm	s/I/i/	07:08
infobot	kwtm meant: i think I have to be the last one who spoke.	07:08
kwtm	s/.k/KK/	07:08
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kwtm	Okay, so no wildcards.	07:08
kwtm	s/[a-z]o/o/	07:09
luke-jr_	…	07:09
johnx	delt, yeah. try to grab that file on your desktop and see if it's a valid gzip file	07:09
delt	um, dont see any link to a .gz file?	07:12
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johnx	delt, line beginning: "Failed to fetch ... "	07:13
johnx	in your apt-get.out.txt	07:13
delt	duh facedoublepalm	07:13
delt	<--- stiupd and witardid ):-	07:13
johnx	no worries	07:14
delt	uh	07:14
delt	[pts/8][user@deimos]:~/n810/apt-get$ wget http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz	07:14
delt	Length: 1602 (1.6K) [text/html]	07:15
delt	Saving to: `Packages.gz'	07:15
delt	[pts/8][user@deimos]:~/n810/apt-get$ file Packages.gz	07:15
delt	Packages.gz: ASCII text, with CRLF, LF line terminators	07:15
johnx	heh	07:15
johnx	yeah, about what i thought	07:15
delt	html code	07:15
johnx	so the repo is borked for some people, including you	07:15
johnx	it happens from time to time	07:15
johnx	the whole thing is on akamai and falls apart in a light breeze	07:15
delt	http://www.deimos.ca/miscjunk/Packages.gz.txt	07:16
delt	so the problem is on the server's side?	07:16
johnx	yes	07:17
johnx	definitely	07:17
delt	same problem as the maemo-extras repo?	07:17
johnx	that is the maemo extras repo	07:17
rohanpm	the topic explains that extras is broken	07:18
johnx	anyways, got to go for a bit	07:18
delt	uh. i think i better get a brain transplant asafp	07:18
johnx	'later all	07:18
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kwtm	How do we get the topic?	07:18
kwtm	You mean the repo server is broken? Wow. :(	07:18
delt	depends on your irc program?	07:18
beford	try /topic	07:18
delt	oh	07:19
delt	i just mapped ctrl+t to run /topic DUUUH	07:19
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delt	Tune in to ktwm for the best maemo-extras in town! That is, if your tablet has an FM tuner!	07:21
delt	Tune in to kwtm for the best maemo-extras in town! That is, if your tablet has an FM tuner!	07:21
delt	sry i acnt spel	07:22
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delt	mkay.... so gonna check again tomorrow, i think it's sleep time for me	07:25
delt	good night all	07:26
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CreamyG	hmmm you guys should look at this: http://psx-scene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67178	07:26
CreamyG	douchebags at sony suing everyone, they named psfreedom too	07:27
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slonopotamus	1. take n8x0. 2. disable wifi energy savings. 3. connect to wifi. 4. wait until battery is discharged. 5. put it on charger. 6. go to sleep (~8h) 7. suddenly discover that your tablet is only 50% charged	08:01
slonopotamus	i have only one question. what the fuck?	08:02
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Stskeeps	it doesn't just switch to AC mode you know	08:03
Stskeeps	:P	08:03
slonopotamus	Stskeeps: i don't care what it does or not. i put it on charger and expect it to fe fully (okay, or almost fully) charged after it sit on it for 8 hours	08:05
Stskeeps	:nod: but if you use more energy than you put into it..	08:05
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slonopotamus	then it wouldn't charge at all.	08:06
slonopotamus	but it did and indicator showed it isn't charging when i woke up.	08:06
Stskeeps	hrm	08:07
Stskeeps	dunno	08:07
RST38h	Stskeeps: I am not sure the using-more-energy case ever happens with the dedicated wall charger.	08:07
RST38h	Stskeeps: as it does not limit the current	08:08
slonopotamus	idle wifi without energy savings kills battery in less than 8 hours. 4-6 afair.	08:08
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: go talk to bme and ask on various data to explore the problem	08:08
Stskeeps	:P	08:08
RST38h	slonopotamus: You woke up, and it was not charging from the power supply?	08:08
RST38h	slonopotamus: Happened to me several times lately.	08:09
slonopotamus	RST38h: yep. though it was plugged in	08:09
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ShadowJK	was it glowing blue or shining green or glowing green?	08:14
ShadowJK	glowing/pulsing	08:14
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slonopotamus	...	08:15
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slonopotamus	it was grey n800	08:16
ShadowJK	oh, n800	08:16
ShadowJK	well then, was the d-pad steady blue or blinking blue fast or blinking blue slow?	08:16
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ShadowJK	And did you unplug charger before you observed battery icon at 50%	08:17
slonopotamus	d-pad stays off when charging	08:18
slonopotamus	tray icon said it isn't.	08:18
slonopotamus	it was 50% both with and without charger	08:18
slonopotamus	and don't tell me about broken charger cable.	08:19
ShadowJK	mine doesn't stay off when charging	08:19
slonopotamus	configurable in settings afaik	08:20
RST38h	slonopotamus: I suspect this happens when you lock it too fast after plugging it in	08:20
RST38h	slonopotamus: this is the only idea I have got about the problem =(	08:21
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ShadowJK	has it happened before?	08:22
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* ShadowJK has never had it happen on his n800		08:23
* RST38h actually has it happen on his n900		08:23
slonopotamus	RST38h: "lock it too fast" - ???	08:23
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ShadowJK	except when charging with a non-nokia charger that puts out too much current sometimes	08:23
RST38h	slonopotamus: there is a lock switch at the right side	08:23
slonopotamus	RST38h: how it affects charging?	08:24
RST38h	slonopotamus: when you toggle it right when plugging in the charger, n900 sometimes does not go into chargin mode	08:24
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slonopotamus	...	08:24
RST38h	pr1.2	08:24
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slonopotamus	it was n800, damnit. next.	08:24
slonopotamus	if it didn't charge, it wouldn't survive 8 hours with disabled wifi energy savings	08:25
slonopotamus	so it did charge and then stopped	08:25
RST38h	hm	08:26
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* ShadowJK was going to guess it went to full and tripped on battery overvoltage during pwm switch on cycle or on dc adapter overcurrent :-)		08:27
RST38h	complicated.	08:27
ShadowJK	though typically it just goes into reboot loop when the former happens :)	08:28
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ShadowJK	the battery icon used to hang for me alot, and get stuck not updating	08:29
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ShadowJK	no tooltip/info when tapping it was sure sign	08:29
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quanttrom	hm, is there anybody here using the "Faster Application Manager" App?	08:30
slonopotamus	it is advanced power applet and it didn't hang	08:30
quanttrom	v0.6.5 ?	08:30
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slonopotamus	ShadowJK: whatever, you can try to reproduce :)	08:31
ShadowJK	hm, what data source does that thing use?	08:31
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slonopotamus	btw, is there smth like batterygraph for diablo?	08:34
slonopotamus	ShadowJK: i used plain nokia wall charger	08:34
ShadowJK	Well it either didn't trigger recharge again after reaching full (sw prob), or it correctly popped up a "Not Charging" dialog while you were away due to some now unknown factor :)	08:34
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slonopotamus	i can try that again	08:35
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ShadowJK	not that it actually tells you why it's not charging	08:35
ShadowJK	hiding information from users is userfriendly, remember	08:36
slonopotamus	i was away because i don't have a habit of watching how my devices charge, you know. especially when i sleep	08:36
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slonopotamus	well, recharging is easy to check, one just needs to take fully charged tablet (still connected to charger) and start intensive battery drain	08:38
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slonopotamus	100% cpu usage drains whole battery in just 2 hours :)	08:39
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ShadowJK	well also tap the battery icon when it gets full, if it recommnds you unplg charger to save electricity you know it hasn't yet tripped at that point	08:40
slonopotamus	okay, new topic. anyone knows what software dims screen in maemo?	08:41
slonopotamus	and turns it off	08:41
slonopotamus	(screen)	08:41
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slonopotamus	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_armel/xserver-xomap/1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.104+0m5/ says i uploaded package to fremantle sdk :)	08:44
ShadowJK	is that 100% cpu AND wifi without psm? screen off or on and at what brightness? :)	08:46
slonopotamus	2h is just 100% cpu, everything else off	08:46
ShadowJK	ah	08:47
slonopotamus	(i compile on it sometimes :P)	08:47
ShadowJK	when it start rebootng when you plug in charger, replace battery	08:47
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kwtm	Anyone have URL of that web page again with all the useful dbus signals like how to switch to silent profile, how to send an SMS by dbus, etc.?	09:34
mece	wow.. ctrl-jmk<space>l fascinates me...	09:35
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Corsac	Jebba has a nice page about that	09:36
Corsac	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS	09:36
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mece	soo.. What's up with extras today?	09:59
johnx	up and down	10:00
* johnx bets on akamai problems		10:00
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Stskeeps	my bet is on x-fade on vacation	10:01
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mece	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11348	10:08
povbot`	Bug 11348: maemo.org Extras repository fails to refresh	10:08
pexi	http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Id=547	10:11
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smooph	Hi I have a technical question ... I know there is phones with 2 sim-cards ... I acctually don't know how they work but I would like to know if it would be possible to use the n900 with another sim-card. I am thinking a of virtual image of the other sim as a device. This would probably have some narly possibilities as to having a sim for different providers which offer free calls to their network	10:15
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pigeon	is there any advantage or disadvantage of using the maemo sdk+ instead of the one from nokia?	10:48
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vltR	is extras repo working right now? still getting error when refreshing :/	10:50
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DocScrutinizer2	nslu2-log: ?	11:54
DocScrutinizer2	nslu2-log: info	11:54
DocScrutinizer2	nslu2-log: help	11:54
DocScrutinizer2	nslu2-log: status	11:54
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DocScrutinizer2	povbot`: ?	11:55
povbot`	DocScrutinizer2: Error: "?" is not a valid command.	11:55
DocScrutinizer2	povbot`: info	11:56
povbot`	DocScrutinizer2: Error: "info" is not a valid command.	11:56
Stskeeps	povbot takes care of the normal logging	11:56
DocScrutinizer2	povbot`: help	11:56
povbot`	DocScrutinizer2: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.	11:56
johnx	~lart major software devs for not agreeing what ctrl+w means	11:56
* infobot executes killall -KILL major software devs for not agreeing what ctrl+w means		11:56
DocScrutinizer2	Stskeeps: checking robots for correct info about their site and master	11:56
johnx	suitable	11:56
johnx	~botsnack	11:56
infobot	johnx: aw, gee	11:56
DocScrutinizer2	Stskeeps: just not kicking povbot and nslu as I know them	11:57
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DocScrutinizer2	temp: what's up with your nick and registration?	12:01
merlin1991	damn you johnx, I tried what ctrl + w is in xchat D	12:01
johnx	why do you think I left and came back like 3 times	12:01
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johnx	ctrl+w is 'delete word' in bash, and firefox on mac, it's switch window in vim, and close window in most linux stuff	12:02
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johnx	>_<	12:02
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DocScrutinizer2	delete word(s) is easy with ctr-shift-left - then bs	12:05
johnx	I try to stay off the cursor keys	12:05
DocScrutinizer2	why that?	12:06
johnx	have to move off the home row	12:06
DocScrutinizer2	lol	12:06
DocScrutinizer2	for ctrl-shift-left you actually have to do by far nastier things	12:06
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johnx	errr, ctrl-shift isn't too bad	12:07
DocScrutinizer2	esp on N900	12:07
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johnx	heh. well there's that :)	12:08
johnx	I don't spend all day typing on my N900 (blessedly)	12:08
DocScrutinizer2	I wouldn't have expected you're concerned about homerow on N900, though it took a while till I realized that	12:09
johnx	ahaha	12:09
* johnx gets back to micro-optimizing his thumb typing, and practicing DVORAK on his N900		12:09
DocScrutinizer2	duh :-O	12:10
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DocScrutinizer2	I still hit 'm' instead ' ' on N900, as my thumbs haven't yet forgotten the N810. Switching to dvorak - can't imagine	12:14
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johnx	I still miss the Zaurus 5500's layout ...	12:15
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johnx	also: we've taken waaaay too long circling back from Trolltech/Qtopia on the Zaurus to Nokia-Trolltech/Qt on Meego	12:16
johnx	feels like we could have done less than half of the API breaks	12:17
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DocScrutinizer2	:nod:	12:24
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DocScrutinizer	smooph: SIM access is direct hw interface from modem to card holder. There's few you can do from linux domain	12:26
smooph	DocScrutinizer: I thought so, I wonder why ;)	12:27
DocScrutinizer	because this is a Nokia device and not Openmoko GTA04 ;-P	12:28
DocScrutinizer	For GTA04 I designed 6 'eavesdropping' GPIO from SoC to SIM holder. This would've allowed to do such things you think of	12:29
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DocScrutinizer	smooph: but for emulating / cloning a SIM you first have to read out the secret crypto key from a valid SIM, and that's not simple or even impossible nowadays with contemporary SIM hw	12:32
smooph	yeah I just thought it be really nice ... to have something like carrier specific contacts ... call jim(tmobile) with your tmobile sim = charge 0$ ... call judy (vodafone) with voda sim ... and so on	12:34
DocScrutinizer	you regularly need multi-SIM hardware to do this	12:35
DocScrutinizer	SIMs can't be copied or emulated (short story)	12:36
smooph	yeah I just thought ... anything can be cloned whatever the encryption might be	12:37
smooph	well just an idea	12:37
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DocScrutinizer	smooph: SIM isn't a simple (maybe encrypted) data storage, it's a processor that's answering a challenge-response authentication scheme. This isn't easily cloneable	12:41
DocScrutinizer	you usually can not read out the cryptographic key that's used to generate the response form challenge	12:42
DocScrutinizer	from*	12:43
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smooph	understand	12:44
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crashanddie	"What happens in the smartcard, stays in the smartcard"	13:01
secyritas	:D	13:01
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DocScrutinizer	except RF emissions and power line modulations :-P	13:04
crashanddie	docscrutinizer: have you seen the latest GnD smartcard which uses an optocoupler for data transfer so that there is no leak?	13:06
DocScrutinizer	they hacked the 'old' SIMs by closely observing power consumption and timing of response, and - using this info together with known details of hw and algo implementation - deduced the key from that, iirc	13:07
crashanddie	it can also use a small built-in battery which provides up to 20 seconds of power so that the smartcard can do computations without being influenced	13:07
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: heh, no didn't realize yet	13:08
crashanddie	don't know if this is public data yet so shouldn't talk about it.	13:08
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DocScrutinizer	GnD == Gaerke & Devrient ?	13:09
crashanddie	Giesecke and Devrient?	13:10
crashanddie	I still have one of their microSD smartcards	13:10
DocScrutinizer	something yeah	13:10
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crashanddie	pretty cool stuff, working on getting a browser on Android to use the certs on the card for SSLv3	13:10
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	13:11
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crashanddie	for a long time, I wanted to work something out so that I could use bluetooth to unlock a computer, just by presenting my phone to it	13:11
crashanddie	and thus using the certificates for session unlock, but I just never had the time to write a bluetooth-to-sc bridge	13:12
crashanddie	(on the windows side)	13:12
crashanddie	too many ideas, not enough time...	13:13
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: now go figure - new german ID has 'smartcard' built in for auth over IT, but they missed the obvious chance to have a printed capacitive numeric keyboard on device (= ID card) to enter the PIN in a safe way	13:14
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tobis87	DocScrutinizer: Are there already photo's availible of zapped ID cards? I heard you can use the microwave to break the rfid chip.	13:18
DocScrutinizer	so every single terminal where you use that ID to authenticate yourself can keylog the PIN for every ID card used there	13:18
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DocScrutinizer	tobis87: sure you can, bt why would you do that?	13:18
DocScrutinizer	you have to pay a fsckng $$ on top of a ID card without that function	13:19
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corecode	meh	13:21
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crashanddie	docscrutinizer it's the main issue with smartcards at the moment, you have to trust the terminal to be perfectly safe. The day there is a worm that goes on those terminals and logs PIN codes the whole industry is going to go down like a stack of cards	13:22
tobis87	DocScrutinizer: Well, I don't like the idea to carry a chip with me, which can get activated remotely with my fingerprints on them, at least on the passport I think fingerprints are stored.	13:22
crashanddie	or at least be seriously hurt. For a long time I've been pushing my old company's CTO to invest in a card that could do the whole PIN challenging on-board rather than on-terminal.	13:22
DocScrutinizer	tobis87: that's a completely different story	13:23
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DocScrutinizer	storage of biometric parameters on ID cards and passports has nothing to do with the authentication you can get now for new ID cards	13:24
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: on board means have MMI on the card, no?	13:25
DocScrutinizer	as I assume the actual calculation of auth algo is done on board anyway	13:25
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crashanddie	MMI?	13:27
crashanddie	going for food	13:27
DocScrutinizer	(hmm, a capacitive 1Mpixel fingerprint scanner also should be easily implementable on a smartcard)	13:27
DocScrutinizer	Man Machine Interface	13:28
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DocScrutinizer	for a display e-ink is the technology of choice I guess	13:29
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, are you talking about fleshlight again?	13:30
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: definitely err... probably not. What's fleshlight	13:30
lcuk	ahem, a man machine interface	13:31
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DocScrutinizer	you can call it HID if you like that better than MMI	13:32
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: we're talking about smartcards - what they are now, and what they should be like	13:33
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: enetering PIN (or any other means of user authenticating to the smartcard) should not rely on the terminal hw - even less it should need special software on a ISA PC	13:35
* RST38h suggests Hardware User Interface		13:36
DocScrutinizer	or any sw for that behalf	13:36
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: read backscroll	13:36
DocScrutinizer	printed capacitive numeric kbd is pretty simple to implement on a smartcard	13:37
RST38h	Doc: Definitely Hardware User Interface,	13:37
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RST38h	smartcards that accept user input already exist though, I have seen them in the news	13:37
DocScrutinizer	yep	13:38
* DocScrutinizer pondering about accoustic feedback from card, using piezo effects in the card itself		13:38
DocScrutinizer	damn, another 3 patents spoiled :-P	13:39
tobis87	Why do we need a new authentication method with the ID anyway? There are already machine readable characters on the front which could get used for authentication. The whole idea seems to me as useless as the new eBrief.	13:39
mece	'ello	13:39
DocScrutinizer	probably I'd be rich if I would visit a lawyer instead of IRCing all day XP	13:39
mece	Stskeeps, so no more prebuilt images for meego on N900?	13:40
DocScrutinizer	tobis87: authetication != identification	13:40
Stskeeps	mece: repo.meego.com now :)	13:40
DocScrutinizer	!= readout of a few data from a piece of plastic	13:40
Stskeeps	mece: prebuilt images go on, just not from tablets-dev as we don't need no pesky EULA	13:40
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mece	Stskeeps, aaah now I found it. I was browsing around repo.meego.com but couldn't find the images at first.	13:45
Stskeeps	meego-handset-armv7l-n900	13:46
FIQ\|n900	o hai linux guys, any idea of a pretty lightweight but still usable linux distro for portable using? (placing on a usb stick)	13:47
jacekowski	make your own(tm)	13:47
FIQ\|n900	Ah, the greatest of them all!	13:47
FIQ\|n900	but seriously, my linux experience is too small for it	13:48
jacekowski	i have gentoo based distro on my 2G sony microvault	13:48
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FIQ\|n900	hm, ok	13:48
jacekowski	micro vault tiny*	13:48
mece	Still, I think I'll wait for xterm and browser to work. :)	13:48
jacekowski	http://static.skattertech.com/media/2006/07/microvaulttiny.jpg	13:49
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: Today is release day, correct?	13:49
DocScrutinizer	DamnSmallLinux (some 50MB)	13:49
Stskeeps	Jaffa: yes, it's on repo.meego.com	13:50
FIQ\|n900	Yeah, though about that	13:50
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: Did I miss the release announcement, or has it not gone out yet?	13:50
Stskeeps	Jaffa: it usually comes day after when QA has verified	13:50
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Ah, cool	13:51
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Stskeeps	Jaffa: and this is like rc1 or something..	13:51
FIQ\|n900	But i've heard that it isn't a nice distro for using, it's something you just use to got some power from small machines	13:51
FIQ\|n900	Or will it actually be customizeable without installing tons of libs?	13:51
DocScrutinizer	dunno	13:51
Jaffa	Stskeeps: So http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.90.4.20100928.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ is this week's?	13:51
Stskeeps	Jaffa: think so	13:51
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Cool, thanks	13:51
FIQ\|n900	Still, 50MB for a DE, some usable applications, is pretty good	13:52
DocScrutinizer	FIQ\|n900: if you have a stick >=2GB, you're probably free to install whatever desktop distro you like. Or have a look at Knoppix	13:52
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FIQ\|n900	Well, i've a 16GB used for N900, but i will preferally use a card that is 1GB	13:52
FIQ\|n900	so yea..	13:52
Jaffa	Stskeeps: The comment about "we might remove email from 1.1" was a little worrying in terms of dogfooding :-/	13:53
FIQ\|n900	I could go and buy an USB stick, but still	13:53
DocScrutinizer	http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/	13:53
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: Does this include the modem code?	13:54
tobis87	FIQ\|n900: Distro for the desktop or the n900?	13:54
Stskeeps	Jaffa: yes	13:54
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FIQ\|n900	tobis87: desktop but portable	13:55
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FIQ\|n900	ä	13:55
sivang	Stskeeps: almost done with backing up, reflashin so I will hopefull be able to start testing the image mysefl as well :) Expect bugs	13:55
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FIQ\|n900	er, -a	13:55
FIQ\|n900	brb	13:55
tobis87	FIQ\|n900: TinyMe is a nice distro, it copies the whole image to ram (copy2ram)	13:56
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lardman	morning chaps	13:56
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DocScrutinizer	lo lardman	13:56
lardman	hey Doc	13:57
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lardman	I was browsing the Maemo.org news page, and saw this: http://www.allaboutmeego.com/features/item/12145_Indoor_Location-Future_tech_fr.php	13:57
lardman	any thoughts as to how it works?	13:57
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lardman	only one transmitter apparently, and using either WiFi or BT (at least no new hw needed and in the 2.4GHz range)	13:58
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Qhubekela	hello	13:58
lardman	hi Qhubekela	13:58
Qhubekela	i just got here from the Maemo wiki	13:59
merlin1991	lucky for you you didn't say I just got here from tmo ;)	13:59
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Exciting	13:59
Duckboot	Stskeeps: Where is the test logs again?	14:00
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Stskeeps	Duckboot: forum.meego.com , look at the n900 preview thread	14:00
Stskeeps	we refer to them there	14:00
Duckboot	Stskeeps: Thanks	14:00
FIQ\|n900	<tobis87> FIQ\|n900: TinyMe is a nice distro, it copies the whole image to ram (copy2ram)	14:01
FIQ\|n900	That feature wouldn't suite me that well as i want to actually store things as well	14:01
FIQ\|n900	(it's question about an USB stick, not a live CD)	14:01
Qhubekela	how does TinyMe compare with DSL?	14:04
tobis87	FIQ\|n900: It should be possible to install it onto a USB stick as well, I like that it uses LXDE	14:04
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ghostcube	ehlo :)	14:05
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FIQ\|n900	<tobis87> FIQ\|n900: It should be possible to install it onto a USB stick as well, I like that it uses LXDE	14:06
FIQ\|n900	and disable the copy2ram thing as well? nice	14:06
ghostcube	hmmm i gto my urpo and vlc-remote working now, knots client drive me nuts lulz	14:06
ghostcube	ah and i noticed smplayer cant play mp4 but kmplayer can do so.	14:07
FIQ\|n900	lxde is nice indeed	14:07
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tobis87	FIQ\|n900: Well you can choose to copy to ram or not on boot... But I have not tried it to install onto a usb stick, I used it to convert an existing partition to sw raid.	14:09
FIQ\|n900	ah, ok	14:09
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lcuk	lardman, there has to be >1 for triangulation, they afaik only show one photo of one such transmittor	14:10
lcuk	its similar to the location stuff we all discussed a while ago	14:10
lardman	lcuk: indeed, but the author says he was told that only one transmitter is required	14:11
lardman	you could get away with one, as long as it was directional	14:11
lardman	radials like aircraft use	14:11
lcuk	i suppose if you also used the compass	14:12
lardman	i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHF_omnidirectional_range	14:12
lardman	lcuk: yeah, but you can't know the angle at which the signal comes to you	14:12
lardman	unless the signal encodes the angle, like a VOR	14:12
DocScrutinizer	lardman: duh, it's 'cheating' paired with a really fuzzy article about what it actually does. I am raher sure it's a MIMO WLAN AP that uses special signal processing to analyze position of mobile WLAN transmitter based on reflections and differences from multiple directional antennae	14:13
nidO	you can, the signal itself can transmit the angle it's being broadcast at	14:13
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nidO	the opposite of that + location of the box also being broadcast + calculation of strength of signal = position of device	14:13
DocScrutinizer	lardman: so the whole positioning calulations are not done in MT but in AP, I'm absolutely sure	14:13
lardman	nid0: exactly, but the signal has to encode the angle	14:13
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lardman	docscrutinizer: so that is effectively a single box with directional transmitters pointing in different directions?	14:14
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: mobile sends a WLAN signal, AP compares the signals with a huge table of references obtained from a previous calibration	14:14
lardman	oh I see	14:15
DocScrutinizer	nope, directional receivers	14:15
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lardman	so like some of the more advanced AGPS stuff	14:15
lcuk	hmmm DocScrutinizer that doesnt sound right	14:15
DocScrutinizer	like determining position of a Lion (or whatever) by receiving signal of a collar	14:16
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: mhm?	14:16
lcuk	well since clientside localised trangulation based on signals is a "trivial" calculation, it seems overly complex to re build it to work backwards	14:17
lardman	how much info can the chipset obtain about the signal to be able to identify it?	14:17
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lardman	lcuk: yeah but only one transmitter (box) and also multipath/variable attenuation because of indoors-ness	14:18
lcuk	but i suppose the easiest is to mail them and request clarification	14:18
lcuk	lardman, the tx box is high in the ceiling	14:18
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: there's extremely simple indoor localisation based on signal strength of several AP in same building. But that's not what the article says	14:18
lardman	there it was, but the blurb reckons it would work inside a normal building	14:19
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: true triangulation MT receiver based is an extremely complicated thing and needs special hardware. That's also not what the article says	14:19
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, ahem - gps calculations are done client side	14:20
lcuk	and thats extremely complicated and multipoint traingulation	14:20
lardman	dedicated hw	14:20
DocScrutinizer	comparing the actual signals of the antennae of a MIMO AP with some reference you got during a calibration phase is rather simple and should work with a single AP	14:20
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lcuk	in other matters, jaffa i spotted this which relates in some way to the haptics improvements for gtk we talked about http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19510-nokia-sets-its-sights-on-a-real-touchscreen.html	14:21
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lardman	perhaps video is not the best medium to explain that one :)	14:23
lcuk	heh	14:23
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Jaffa	lcuk: Yeah, I saw. Very cool.	14:29
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DocScrutinizer	hrmhrm, haptic improvements for gtk? o.O	14:37
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DocScrutinizer	ohnoes, another concept planned for GTA04 now hits markets from another manufacturer	14:40
kerio	grand theft auto?	14:42
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lardman	hmm, /me reads article saying that Ovi Maps is far less hungry than Google Maps	14:46
DocScrutinizer	kerio: there's no absolutely confirmed story about what GTA meant in Openmoko	14:46
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lardman	probably because it's always spinning the CPU keeping itself and the task switcher busy	14:46
DocScrutinizer	but for sure not grand theft auto	14:46
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pexi	lardman, so whot, gps eats battery anyway :)	14:47
* DocScrutinizer eats batteries		14:47
DocScrutinizer	for breakfast	14:47
lardman	pexi: yeah, but saying it;s less hungry, which presumably means bandwidth/battery/cpu is quite amusing seeing how crap Ovi Maps is on the N900	14:47
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pexi	lardman, true dat :)	14:48
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pexi	they showed only blank towns @ balkan :)	14:49
lardman	I do hope Meego improves the maps and calendar stakes as these are two of the main things I do with the phone and they are rubbish	14:49
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pexi	gladly i had paper map with me :)	14:49
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Appiah	does OVI maps have turn by turn now?	14:49
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lardman	Appiah: on Symbian iirc	14:49
Jaffa	lardman: The calendar's not too bad.	14:49
Appiah	I mean on the n900	14:50
maybeWTF	Appiah: yes, but without voice directions	14:50
lardman	Jaffa: it works, but it's not very user friendly	14:50
Appiah	aah	14:50
pexi	how can you get reliable two-way calendar syncing work?	14:50
ilius	Recaller sound quallity is not good for you?	14:50
lardman	Jaffa: could be much better and quite easily. And yeah I could write my own but I really don't have the time	14:50
pexi	i have tried emergin/exchange/kimi with google calendar <> n900 calendar	14:51
pexi	nothing really works fluently	14:51
lardman	I don;t care too much about exchange, I'd just like it to look nicer, have more flexibility over event alarms, etc.	14:53
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pupnik	lardman: for barcode recognition, is there a stage where you normalize the contrast of the region dected to be a barcode? (throwing out the rest of the image)	14:55
pupnik	detected	14:56
lardman	pupnik: is handled by zbar	14:56
pupnik	ah ty	14:56
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lardman	but yeah there probably will be	14:56
pupnik	so i might have a chance with a low-contrast barcode? or fat luck...	14:57
lardman	may be	14:57
pupnik	it makes reflections so much worse...	14:57
lardman	if not have a chat to spadix in #zbar	14:57
pupnik	ah thanks	14:57
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sivang	re	15:37
* sivang is on the train		15:37
pupnik	hi	15:38
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sivang	hey pupnik , 'sup?	15:40
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ShadowJK	This is pretty interesting. I have a dd image of a USB flash disk that has been used in my sheevaplug for awhile. It failed a few weeks ago. However, the interesting thing is that I used ext3, and never ran fsck	15:45
ShadowJK	when I now run fsck, I get alot of file corruption..	15:45
ShadowJK	Without fsck, it looks fine :)	15:45
Stskeeps	heh	15:45
ShadowJK	flash is really evil :)	15:45
kerio	woo! sheevaplug!	15:46
kerio	my sheevaplug zeroed a 4gb SD while it has the "lock" switch set to lock	15:46
kerio	:)	15:46
kerio	*had	15:46
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sivang	someone should tell marvel about it :)	15:54
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pupnik	i would like faster flash drives	15:54
n900evil	I want my car back on the road.	15:54
* n900evil is now known as busevil.		15:55
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lardman	busevil...? Modern bus with computer built in I wonder...?	15:56
n900evil	running meego.	15:57
lardman	of course ;)	15:57
n900evil	You climb out through the window. This is a result of the innovative package manager.	15:58
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* lardman curses HAM for making me wait for things to be installed/uninstalled rather than letting me look at other things		15:59
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mgedmin	You push the STOP button. The bus is busy swapping so it ignores you for a couple of kilometers	15:59
lardman	:)	16:00
lardman	also if the bus is backed up, you may not get swapped out when you want	16:00
n900evil	swap fragmentation is bad.	16:01
defragger	is it possible to create my own .desktop file to open osso-xterm with some commands like ssh servername?	16:02
lardman	does anyone know how QThread prevents me using widget classes within its run() method?	16:02
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ShadowJK	It's possible. fmboost basically does this	16:02
lardman	defragger: .desktop to a script	16:02
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satmd	ShadowJK: corrupted superblock? try anothe copy with fsck	16:02
defragger	ah ok i will try that	16:02
defragger	with terminal true right/	16:02
ShadowJK	satmd, superblock was fine	16:03
ShadowJK	satmd, the fun thing is that I get all data back fine when i DONT run fsck	16:03
ShadowJK	if I run fsck, data starts getting corrupted :)	16:03
mgedmin	are you running fsck on a mounted partition, ShadowJK?	16:04
ShadowJK	no	16:04
sx0n	lardman, because ui runs in main thread?	16:05
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lardman	I know why you shouldn't do it, just wondering if I can access members of a widget-derived class without penalty - I guess so	16:06
lardman	well I'll try it and see anyway	16:07
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dRbiG	o'right now someone point me to where Maemo keeps the magic file with [Desktop Entry] stuff ;)	16:29
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ghostcube	hmmm is it safe to install the custom libsoup for knots2 or is there any devel version of it with ssl support?	16:30
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MohammadAG	/usr/share/applications/hildon/	16:34
MohammadAG	/usr/share/applications/hildon-home for widgets	16:34
dRbiG	MohammadAG: googled that already but thank you... however, i have an issue that when i for example open the add desktop shortcut menu i have some items listed two times (doubled), like they were defined in to places - which is annoying - any idea where a 'master list' of apps can be stored?	16:36
dRbiG	and it still seems that when i uninstall catorise i get only 14 icons	16:36
dRbiG	this time looks like some list is half empty or broken	16:37
dRbiG	all started after uninstalling mymenu which was way worse than catorise	16:37
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dRbiG	i wish there was some way to categorize the apps the way i like from the gui	16:38
dRbiG	even simple category approach of palmos would be much better	16:38
dRbiG	than either having all thrown at once or some categories made by someone which i do not agree with	16:39
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flexxxv	Hy; I'm trying to use the EFF script from here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62731	17:03
flexxxv	But I get all the time: sh: -eq: argument expected	17:04
flexxxv	here is the pastebin: http://pastebin.com/xwXMDAte	17:04
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VenemoN900	Hey guys	17:16
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mgedmin	pwsafe's add icon is broken	17:21
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flexxxv	her is a log: http://pastebin.com/sSANspyY	17:27
flexxxv	could it be that EFF is broken because of hostmode?	17:27
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MohammadAG	where did you get that script?	17:29
flexxxv	here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62731	17:31
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flexxxv	It should be for automatic scanning of frequencies	17:31
kerio	WARNING: You must type "root" NOT "sudo gainroot" or else......dont worry it wont brick your N900 but you will get many many errors and you will have to restart your phone.	17:31
kerio	wtf	17:31
kerio	i wouldn't touch that with a 10 feet pole	17:31
flexxxv	kerio: some peoplel had success with that	17:33
flexxxv	kerio: and root and sudo gainroot are not exactly the same	17:33
kerio	they... are	17:33
MohammadAG	for fuck's sake	17:33
MohammadAG	kerio, no	17:33
kerio	cat `which root`	17:33
MohammadAG	indent your code people!	17:33
MohammadAG	seriously	17:33
MohammadAG	kerio, they're not the same	17:33
MohammadAG	in ways I don't know about	17:34
MohammadAG	but root has env variables set properly, dbus-send works fine with it	17:34
MohammadAG	with sudo gainroot some shit doesn't work	17:34
kerio	it makes no sense	17:34
MohammadAG	like dbus-send, themes etc...	17:34
MohammadAG	I know	17:34
kerio	"root" is just a shell script that does sudo gainroot	17:34
flexxxv	but it use "--use-su"	17:34
ghostcube	root is set by flashing maemo with a special option or?	17:35
kerio	oh, that's it then	17:35
MohammadAG	rootsh	17:35
ghostcube	so you have a real root	17:35
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kerio	so "root" doesn't make a full root login	17:35
kerio	and by "root" i mean "sudo gainroot --use-su"	17:36
quanttrom	PROMPT_COMMAND='pwd>&7;kill -STOP $$'	17:36
quanttrom	PROMPT_COMMAND='pwd>&7;kill -STOP $$'	17:37
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flexxxv	anyway that discussion wont make the script run :D so someone her can see whats wrong?	17:37
kerio	seeing MohammadAG's indignation at the lack of indentation, i expect a better script that runs in half the time that gives better results in about 20 minutes	17:38
kerio	unless he's busy	17:38
kerio	MohammadAG: that guy also asks for donations	17:39
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MohammadAG	zenity's a bit meh	17:40
flexxxv	:D I just was confused by this line in debug mode: " + expr 60 hostmode.py vboost.sh 1" so i'll wait to see what happens. If nothing I maybe should try to compile this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=759219&postcount=82	17:41
flexxxv	maybe a better way...	17:41
flexxxv	@MohammadAG I think the author is thinking about building a c++ app. instead of using zenity	17:42
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kerio	MohammadAG: hurry!	17:43
kerio	write it in c++/qt	17:44
flexxxv	lol :P	17:44
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DocScrutinizer	you're a crazy mad bunch	17:46
mgedmin	what the?	17:46
mgedmin	you call that a script?	17:46
mgedmin	it's a mish-mash of a script and a copy/paste of its output when run with sh -x	17:46
kerio	heh	17:46
kerio	there's the real source in the TMO thread	17:47
flexxxv	mgedmin: define script ;) or ask the author :P	17:47
MohammadAG	kerio, cba	17:47
MohammadAG	though I indented the code, I hate ugly code	17:47
mgedmin	oh noe, the indentation hate is in the original as well	17:48
kerio	damn, i failed to consider the cba factor :(	17:48
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MohammadAG	# Copyright (c) 2010 OEM LTD (HE99116) # <--????	17:49
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jaska	peculiar company name	17:50
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lardman	What do you chaps think I should use as a notification that mBarcode is currently scanning?	17:53
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: fs corruption by fsck is a commonly known side effect of mounting the physical device of a VFAT partition as superfloppy	17:53
lcuk	lardman, is the UI visible at the time?	17:53
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lardman	yep	17:54
flexxxv	easiest way to compile armel without setting up a scratchbox? (just one file for a small test)	17:54
MohammadAG	paste the code for someone else to compile it	17:54
lcuk	lardman, does the UI update the camera image whilst scanning in not in progress?	17:54
DocScrutinizer	lardman: use blinkenlights?	17:54
flexxxv	ok I boot the other pc with scratchbox...	17:55
MohammadAG	LOL was typing that	17:55
lardman	yeah, only problem is that your hand tends to be over the blinkedlights	17:55
lardman	I was thinking a Cylon-style blip moving back and forth along the "aim here" bar	17:56
ShadowJK	that's what symbian does	17:56
ShadowJK	and then it draws a rectangle around barcode	17:56
DocScrutinizer	so it must be wrong	17:56
lardman	ShadowJK: I'll do the drawing eventually, but I need to get the libraries to output that data, so probably not a job for this afternoon	17:57
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lardman	in the meantime is there a stock way of sticking a message up on the screen?	17:58
lardman	Qt	17:58
DocScrutinizer	lardman: btw mbarcode fails epically for me, when used without 'autofocus' checkmarked, which in fact seems to mean autocapture	17:58
lardman	DocScrutinizer: you need to half press the shutter button to get it to focus	17:58
DocScrutinizer	yeah, and then?	17:58
lardman	and then point at the barcode	17:59
DocScrutinizer	then?	17:59
lardman	when it detects something it will bring up a results window	17:59
DocScrutinizer	fails	17:59
MohammadAG	QMaemo5InformationBox::information(this, tr("Some text"))	17:59
lardman	what's the barcode?	17:59
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DocScrutinizer	tested several	17:59
lardman	MohammadAG: thanks, will take a look at that	17:59
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: low light?	17:59
DocScrutinizer	yep, somewhat	17:59
lardman	are these 1D codes?	18:00
MohammadAG	facebrick's source is ftw to learn Qt from :P	18:00
DocScrutinizer	some where	18:00
lardman	the 1D code doesn't like low light, needs improving	18:00
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MohammadAG	what's the C++ equivalent of while true; do echo 255 > brightness; done	18:00
lardman	try a QR code though, those work well all the time (yay for derf!)	18:00
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DocScrutinizer	mhm	18:00
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DocScrutinizer	strange thing is, with autofocus it works like a charm	18:01
lardman	that is strange	18:01
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lardman	does the autofocus turn the flash on?	18:01
Milo-	any way of using physical keyboard when n900 boots up and asks for pin or lock code?	18:01
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DocScrutinizer	except on low light, where flash fails boldly due to overexposure	18:02
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lardman	just wondering if the fact the focus assist is coming on it giving it a better image to work with	18:02
Termana	MohammadAG, while (true) { system("echo 255 > brightness") }	18:02
Termana	?	18:02
DocScrutinizer	yes, on lowlight it does, and then it mostly fails	18:02
Termana	err	18:02
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Termana	MohammadAG, while (true) { system("echo 255 > brightness"); }	18:02
lardman	DocScrutinizer: yeah	18:02
MohammadAG	that uses system()	18:02
Termana	so? :P	18:03
DocScrutinizer	Termana: fn(){fn; fn}; fn	18:03
MohammadAG	I said C++ equivalent of the code, not the C++ code to start a sh	18:03
MohammadAG	~burn Termana	18:03
* infobot pours gasoline all over Termana, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		18:03
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MohammadAG	mmm, marshmallows	18:04
Termana	MohammadAG, well, I guess you could open the file and then write to the file in C++... not entirely sure weather it would work, but I guess it should	18:04
* DocScrutinizer shoots Termana with ashes of 500 burnt OMAP CPUs		18:04
crashanddie	mohammadAG: while (true) { ofstream of; of.open("brightness"); of << "255"; of.close; }	18:05
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* DocScrutinizer starts to prepare a mass kick batch job		18:06
* MohammadAG saves crashanddie's code till he figures out how to use QFileSystemWatcher		18:06
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crashanddie	actually, make that of.open("brightness", ios::trunc);	18:07
* DocScrutinizer saves MohammadAG's last words		18:07
* MohammadAG kicks DocScrutinizer		18:07
* crashanddie slices mohammadAG's throat		18:07
lardman	hmm, is it possible to get rid of a QMaemo5InformationBox once displayed?	18:07
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Termana	~nuke DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG and crashanddie	18:08
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG and crashanddie ... B☢☢M!		18:08
* MohammadAG falls down and stabs crashanddie in the nuts		18:08
DocScrutinizer	you noobs forgot a nice -n -20 to make it really nasty. Always those halfassed terrorism attacks	18:08
crashanddie	lardman: .hide()	18:08
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DocScrutinizer	nuking a few N900 won't free Palestine :-P	18:09
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CutMeOwnThroat	crashanddie!	18:10
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, but it might start a war in Germany :P	18:10
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crashanddie	?	18:10
CutMeOwnThroat	* crashanddie slices mohammadAG's throat	18:10
lardman	crashanddie: thanks	18:10
Termana	crashanddie isn't here crazy man	18:10
CutMeOwnThroat	tsk... tsk...	18:10
Termana	can I take a message for you?	18:10
merlin1991	CutMeOwnThroat, dribbler?	18:11
CutMeOwnThroat	without the r, please	18:11
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crashanddie	mohammadAG: they usually start theirs wars alone, every 20 years... They managed to keep quiet for 60 years, I'm guessing next week will see WW3 :D	18:11
merlin1991	sry	18:11
MohammadAG	lol	18:11
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: see stuxnet X-P	18:11
DocScrutinizer	we got better	18:12
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merlin1991	for some reason I always write dribbler when I mean dibbler :) but the books are awesome	18:12
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pupnik	some germans are trying to win the tablet war with linux+android	18:12
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DocScrutinizer	first we sell Siemens SPS, then we nuke the atomic plants of enemy via the internets	18:12
crashanddie	my IRC screen is all red now :(	18:13
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Termana	crashanddie, stop killing people	18:13
* MohammadAG just noticed Siemens sounds like semens		18:13
Termana	MohammadAG, sea men.	18:13
Termana	MohammadAG, see man.	18:13
crashanddie	mohammadAG: Try to imagine how it sucks to be a marine: "Listen, sea men!"	18:13
MohammadAG	LOL	18:13
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pupnik	gimme 4.5" 1024x600 (or similar) on next meego device	18:14
DocScrutinizer	mememe	18:14
crashanddie	now quickly spam the channel so this shit is removed from the screen	18:14
GAN900	Fools	18:15
DocScrutinizer	~chaninfo	18:15
infobot	I'm on 108 channels: #debian/896, #maemo/487, #meego/482, #kde/383, #asterisk/220, #gsoc/170, #oe/163, #wowace/161, #wowuidev/158, #htc-linux/155, #openmoko/155, #wowhead/123, #webos-internals/106, #openmoko-cdevel/104, #sc2mapster/96, #utah/68, #asterisk-dev/62, #tomcat/59, #bzflag/58, #uclibc/55, #curseforge/55, #wowwiki/50, #edev/49, #slug/43, #utos/42, #gllug/39, #elinux/37, #uphpu/35, #norganna/32, #ubuntu-us-ut/29, #asterisk-bugs/28, #/27, ...	18:15
infobot	i've cached 5148 users, 3694 unique users, distributed over 108 channels.	18:15
pupnik	i mean, really 1024, for web browsing....	18:15
lardman	~lart Ubuntu Lucid Lynx for not allowing me to mount my N900	18:15
* infobot cuts Ubuntu Lucid Lynx into thin stripes for not allowing me to mount my N900		18:15
Termana	~kill pupnik	18:15
* infobot shoots a excited graviton gun at pupnik		18:15
Termana	~cookieslap pupnik	18:15
pupnik	hm,m?	18:15
Termana	Someone needs to add a cookieslap command to infobot	18:15
pupnik	~lart pupnik	18:16
* infobot pours hot grits down the front of pupnik's pants		18:16
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: aren't we good boys? ;-P	18:16
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: need some more spam?	18:16
pupnik	let's band together to form the "really annoying 1024x pixel res campaign"	18:16
Termana	DocScrutinizer, I think so	18:17
Termana	~help	18:17
DocScrutinizer	LOL	18:17
DocScrutinizer	falewale	18:17
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DocScrutinizer	~tell Termana about help	18:18
Termana	~lobotomy DocScrutinizer	18:18
* infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on DocScrutinizer		18:18
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* DocScrutinizer 's two personalities are still discussing how to answer that attack. Takes a while, have to read what I've just witten		18:19
DocScrutinizer	written*	18:19
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DocScrutinizer	~status	18:20
infobot	Since Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 96 modifications, 1352 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 604 commands. I have been awake for 13d 5h 22m 8s this session, and currently reference 117305 factoids. I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 4348.22/109.89 child 0/0	18:20
Termana	infobot, Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?	18:21
DocScrutinizer	got nfc what 'morons: 0' means, anyway it doesn't look correct	18:21
timeless_pidgin	Sp3000 : please ask eero why bluetoothd is running on my n900 when bluetooth is off.	18:21
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flexxxv	is it normal that the include/media/si4713.h of the kernel headers is emty?	18:23
timeless_pidgin	Also, if someone could figure out the "proper" way to move 2gb of photos from an mmc to the n900's mass storage w/o having the system slow to a crawl, please let me know...	18:23
flexxxv	is it normal that the si4713.h of the kernel headers is emty?	18:23
flexxxv	sry wrong path	18:23
DocScrutinizer	timeless_pidgin: from a mc to n900? please elaborate	18:24
DocScrutinizer	timeless_pidgin: copying from microSD to eMMC is known to bring system to a grinding halt	18:25
timeless_pidgin	mv /media/mmc1/DCIM/*NIKON MyDocs/DCIM-card/	18:25
DocScrutinizer	writing to eMMC via ass rage mode yields 11MB/s sustainably	18:25
timeless_pidgin	Is there a way to avoid the grinding halt? It kinda sucks...	18:26
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DocScrutinizer	so it has to be a really nasty strange effect that only shows up when using uSD and eMMC interface concurrently	18:26
DocScrutinizer	no matter whether directly on system (cp) or via ass rage	18:27
timeless_pidgin	Each folder has 200 photos. And mv deletes a folder when it finishes copying it.	18:27
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DocScrutinizer	haven't found a way to copy huge amounts of data from uSD to eMMC the easy way	18:28
DocScrutinizer	uSD -> laptop /tmp -> MyDocs	18:28
timeless_pidgin	Would mv to $HOME first suck less?	18:28
DocScrutinizer	prolly not	18:29
DocScrutinizer	never tested though	18:29
timeless_pidgin	I don't really have a laptop with me...	18:29
DocScrutinizer	seems concurrent usage of both physical interfaces is somehow messing up the swap, by swapping out in favour of bufers, or sth	18:30
kerio	DocScrutinizer: try turning off swap	18:30
DocScrutinizer	yep	18:30
timeless_pidgin	Also would rsync from uSD to net suck less? Assume wifi/dsl	18:30
DocScrutinizer	was about to suggest that	18:30
timeless_pidgin	?	18:31
DocScrutinizer	at least that wouldn't bring whole device to a frozen state I guess	18:31
DocScrutinizer	(suggest) swapoff	18:31
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DocScrutinizer	or copy only small chunks at a time	18:31
DocScrutinizer	with syncs in between	18:32
DocScrutinizer	(wild guessing and handwaving)	18:32
ShadowJK	timeless_pidgin, try this before huge copiesL echo 1 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness	18:32
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ShadowJK	then back to 100 after copy	18:32
DocScrutinizer	goood point	18:32
DocScrutinizer	brilliant	18:32
kerio	or 0	18:33
DocScrutinizer	also maybe don't use mv :-P	18:33
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DocScrutinizer	instead better use cp	18:33
ShadowJK	0 is dangerous	18:33
kerio	why?	18:33
ShadowJK	because you can run out of memory	18:34
DocScrutinizer	kerio: it will beam you to infinity alef 7	18:34
ShadowJK	and thrn things go crazy	18:34
DocScrutinizer	if you calculate mem/swappiness	18:34
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timeless_pidgin	Why would cp be better?	18:35
DocScrutinizer	won't destroy your original data before you confirmed it has been synced to destination :-D	18:35
timeless_pidgin	Err	18:35
timeless_pidgin	Surely mv isn't dangerous?	18:36
DocScrutinizer	mv across phy devs is	18:36
ShadowJK	it all starts with emmc hating multitasking, and when you do big IO on emmc, there'll be like 6 concurrent datastreams, which the emmc is able to serve at a grand total of about 400kbyte/s ...	18:36
DocScrutinizer	if buffers are involved	18:36
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timeless_pidgin	How pray tell do i confirm 2gb of photos have been properly copied, short of using rsync in the first place?	18:37
ShadowJK	That and kernel not knowing your big ass copy is "single use" and you couldn't care less if none of it ended up in ram	18:37
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: mv thinks file has been cp'd to destination and purges original file, while actual data bitrots in buffers which never get synced	18:37
DocScrutinizer	dd it	18:39
DocScrutinizer	:-P	18:39
crashanddie	sorry?	18:39
DocScrutinizer	nevermind	18:39
* MohammadAG wonders if buying his dad an iPhone 4 is a good thing		18:40
timeless_pidgin	Ok, how does swapoff -a work?	18:40
DocScrutinizer	honestly, best is a find ./whatever -exec "cp {} dest/; sync; "	18:40
timeless_pidgin	It's hanging. ..	18:41
MohammadAG	find on busybox doesn't support -exec	18:41
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zash	MohammadAG: pipe to xargs?	18:41
DocScrutinizer	it swaps all out of storage back to ram, and fails if there's not enough memory	18:41
MohammadAG	I'm just saying	18:41
DocScrutinizer	if it succeeds, it finally disables the swap partition usage	18:42
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I know	18:42
DocScrutinizer	~messybox	18:42
infobot	messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils	18:42
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MohammadAG	I have a feeling BLIZZARD doesn't have any idea about scripting	18:44
MohammadAG	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62731&page=7	18:44
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if posting tmo URLs is a ban'able behaviour		18:45
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MohammadAG	no, but wondering about it is ban'able	18:45
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flexxxv	MohammadAG: will try soon :D	18:46
MohammadAG	try what?	18:46
DocScrutinizer	no, posting fuzzy URLs that don't precisely point to a particular post is	18:46
MohammadAG	it's trying to read a non existent file	18:46
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, then it means I'm referring to the page	18:46
MohammadAG	a script should check for a damn file	18:47
MohammadAG	and if something exits with 1, it shouldn't go on!	18:47
flexxxv	wait a second. wrong irc channel :P	18:48
flexxxv	I'm not BLIZZARD. Just to clarify this :P ;)	18:48
MohammadAG	well, duh	18:49
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DocScrutinizer	WTF, function() defs interleaved with single main() lines. My footnails curl up	18:50
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timeless_pidgin	You realize that i'm 80mb of ram in debt to swap	18:50
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Termana	DocScrutinizer, you should probably get the seen to by a doctor	18:51
Termana	that*	18:51
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ShadowJK	timeless_pidgin, swapoff -a is probably not a good idea unless you've just rebooted	18:51
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flexxxv	I want to compile this: http://pastebin.com/3hUG6Eb7 but I'm a noob at c++	18:52
flexxxv	cant solve the probs with si4713.h	18:52
DocScrutinizer	no, the dude placing the lines from >>#Temporary... to >>zenity... exactly where they are, this dude really should visit a specialist for neural impairment treetment	18:53
ShadowJK	I don't think swapoff can fail, it'll just get infinitely slower as it gets closer to the end :)	18:53
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Termana	Apparently he shouldn't have done that	18:53
ShadowJK	(or maybe it crashes)	18:53
Termana	:P	18:53
ShadowJK	grr	18:54
flexxxv	So i need the si4713.h but it isn't included at the stock headers :(	18:54
ShadowJK	so my N900 briefly flashes the crossed out SIM icon and drops cellular data whenever I move around...	18:54
* ShadowJK tries pad the sim holder with a piece of paper		18:54
jacekowski	ShadowJK: swapoff can fail if there is not enough memory	18:54
jacekowski	flexxxv: why do you include si4713?	18:55
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DocScrutinizer	ouuuuch, a function called vars(). And it's doing non-reentrant crap like max=`expr $max \* 100`	18:56
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DocScrutinizer	call it twice and you got max=max*10000	18:56
MohammadAG	flexxxv, code is C, not C++	18:57
* DocScrutinizer burps, disgusted		18:57
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lardman	how should one add a widget to a layout in the form designer of QTCreator?	18:58
lardman	the layout appears as a 2 pixel-wide line, but I can't seem to drop anything into/onto it	18:59
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flexxxv	MohammadAG: ups	19:00
flexxxv	jacekowski: I think I need it for struct si4713_rnl and SI4713_IOC_MEASURE_RNL	19:01
tobis87	flexxxv: http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/include/media/si4713.h?v=2.6.32	19:01
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flexxxv	tobis87: already tried to use but then I get: http://pastebin.com/WZ5rTkTc	19:04
GAN900	crashanddie, what's in it for me?	19:05
ShadowJK	I wonder what happened to timeless...	19:06
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DocScrutinizer	gone apeshit while reading that script	19:06
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ShadowJK	what script?	19:07
crashanddie	GAN900, sorry?	19:07
ShadowJK	someone gave him a script?	19:07
DocScrutinizer	see link moh pated above	19:07
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DocScrutinizer	pasted*	19:07
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DocScrutinizer	the most screwed code I've seen since... ages	19:08
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flexxxv	especcially I'm wondering about 'struct si4713_rnl' has no member named 'frequency' but for my eyes it looks like http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/include/media/si4713.h?v=2.6.32 has it?	19:08
GAN900	crashanddie, LinkedIn. :P	19:08
DocScrutinizer	check out hempty_a..d() :-O**	19:08
crashanddie	GAN900, be cool	19:08
GAN900	crashanddie, and I get the connecting to you?	19:09
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ShadowJK	2.6.32 isn't the kernel in maemo	19:10
tobis87	flexxxv: This is the file from the patch file for 2.6.28 http://pastebin.com/2AN84KAi	19:10
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lardman	qt designer really is pretty crap	19:11
tobis87	Yeah, I know I didn't thought there would be a big difference.	19:11
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flexxxv	tobis87: thx. now looking for radio-si4713.h :D	19:12
crashanddie	GAN900, no	19:13
crashanddie	GAN900, connect with me, and you'll be ubercool.	19:13
MohammadAG	what's the fm radio module called?	19:13
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ShadowJK	receiver or transmitter?	19:13
GAN900	crashanddie, incentive indeed.	19:13
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tobis87	flexxxv: http://pastebin.com/KFWFsXGU	19:13
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flexxxv	error: aggregate 'si4713_rnl rnl' has incomplete type and cannot be defined	19:16
flexxxv	error: 'SI4713_IOC_MEASURE_RNL' was not declared in this scope	19:16
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, receiver	19:17
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DocScrutinizer	damn, that's been suspense. Honestly I get a thrill like wahtching a horror movie, from reading that script	19:19
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tobis87	flexxxv: Did you copy it from here? http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/video4linux/si4713.txt This will not work, the program is written with the headers from 2.6.32 in mind. So the header from 2.6.32 was correct, but you need to correct the header file to work with 2.6.28.	19:23
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DocScrutinizer	a particularly nice one: rans=$(zenity -entry-text "root" --title "you must be root"...); eval $rans	19:23
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DocScrutinizer	it's a grace of konqueror not to allow text-highlight&copy inside the [code] js crap	19:26
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: all your indentation won't make it less ugly :-P	19:27
MohammadAG	indentation is awesome	19:28
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slonopotamus	let's try again	19:29
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slonopotamus	anyone knows what software dims and turns off screen in maemo?	19:30
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Stskeeps	mce, it hink	19:30
slonopotamus	does it work in mer/meego?	19:31
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* slonopotamus sighs		19:41
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jacekowski	slonopotamus: no	19:42
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slonopotamus	jacekowski: doesn't work or anyone doesn't know?	19:42
jacekowski	there is no mce on mer	19:43
jacekowski	or meego	19:43
jacekowski	but	19:43
Stskeeps	jacekowski: mer has powerlaunch	19:43
jacekowski	there is something else	19:43
Stskeeps	and there's xorg blanking	19:43
Stskeeps	:P	19:43
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slonopotamus	by "it" i meant "screen dimming and turning off" there	19:43
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps: xorg blanking just makes it black, it still powers screen, isn't it?	19:44
jacekowski	nope	19:44
ZogG	facebook gonna integrate skype? wtf?	19:44
jacekowski	ZogG: userlist probably	19:44
ZogG	nope	19:44
ZogG	sms voice chat	19:45
ZogG	facebook-coonect	19:45
jacekowski	coonect?	19:45
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jacekowski	connect you meant?	19:45
ZogG	yeah	19:45
ZogG	mistypo	19:45
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zash	ZogG: not just that they want your account and password to scrape contacts	19:45
ZogG	they are stealing alos all my free time	19:45
ZogG	also*	19:46
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slonopotamus	okay, according to omapfb sources, they cannot dim/turn off screen (not implemented)	19:47
RST38h	"Specialist Morlock was accused by the Army of taking part in all three killings during his deployment in Afghanistan's Kandahar province... Other soldiers in the unit told investigators that the accused ringleader collected fingers and other body parts from Afghan corpses"	19:47
RST38h	+15 bonus points for his last name	19:47
slonopotamus	Stskeeps: and how meego turns off screen?	19:49
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: xorg turnoff, afaik	19:49
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps: you use maemo xomap?	19:50
Stskeeps	no	19:50
Stskeeps	no such thing even on m5	19:50
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Stskeeps	fbdev-sgx	19:50
slonopotamus	oh	19:50
slonopotamus	i'm on n800 though	19:52
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slonopotamus	looking at powerlaunch. Stskeeps, thanks for the pointer	19:53
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flexxxv	tobis87: think I cant make this to work	19:57
flexxxv	someone else here who wants to do? ;)	19:58
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tobis87	Why do you want to measure the received noise level? This does not make much sense standalone.	20:01
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tobis87	Btw, I tired fm radio the first time today, why does it require bluetooth enabled?	20:03
MohammadAG	FM receiver and BT radio are on the same chip	20:04
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flexxxv	tobis87: Ijust want a easy binary to read the noise level (one tool one job ;) ) to see how strong the signal is and then use a script for scanning :D	20:04
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tobis87	So it will use the amount of energy as if I would use bt?	20:05
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tobis87	Right, but I also have no idea what's wrong with the struct. But for the second error, add #define BASE_VIDIOC_PRIVATE 192	20:09
dRbiG	lol, now i have a 'Internal error. Application Contacts has been closed.' over and over again	20:09
dRbiG	maemo seems to be some kind of software error/problem generator ;)	20:10
dRbiG	googling around, and well, i have the default kernel	20:10
dRbiG	ehh	20:10
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dRbiG	lol i've killed the proces that does that and i got myself a free reboot	20:13
dRbiG	what a crap	20:13
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flexxxv	tobis87: thx	20:14
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tobis87	flexxxv: And _IOWR seems to be defined in a ioctl.h file, but I don't know which would be correct anyway try #include <asm/ioctl.h>	20:16
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tobis87	dRbiG: At least you still have control over it, someone else had the problem that his n900 always rebooted, if he got called...	20:21
dRbiG	lol :D :D	20:21
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pupnik	"a life devoted to the dream-machine is morally wrong"	20:22
tobis87	And he got called often, while he was trying to backup his data	20:22
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frals	if hes too stupid to activate offline mode after the 2nd time i feel sorry for him :<	20:23
* ShadowJK thinks he's narrowed down the reason why N900 and external bluetooth gps receiver only half works, to a single constant that's "wrong"		20:23
ShadowJK	yay, it works :-)	20:24
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dRbiG	i okey, does 'apt-get update' does the same as update from the hildon-application-manager?	20:24
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tobis87	yes, but you have to be root... HAM I think has an entry in /etc/sudoers	20:27
MohammadAG	no	20:28
MohammadAG	HAM doesn't use apt-get directly	20:28
MohammadAG	it uses /usr/libexec/apt-worker	20:28
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tobis87	But how does ham than have permission to replace files on root? Then apt-worker must have access.	20:30
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sivang	so for those wondering about gnome, some of the proejcts being rebranched for the next release are tomoby and zenity	20:33
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sivang	does it make sense to open bug reports for Maemo?	20:36
sivang	when tracker-indexer is re-ran, it makes the GUI seriously unresponsive,	20:36
kerio	tracker is just a single, massive bug	20:36
sivang	now this can be tolerated in most of the GUI operations however when you are trying to unlock the device using the swipe dial , or when reciving a call,	20:37
sivang	it makes it annoying to wait for the UI to come up to answer the person on the other side :)	20:37
sivang	kerio: :/	20:37
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sivang	eating ~70% cpu right now	20:37
* sivang going back to dinner , be back later		20:39
BCMM	why doesn't maemo use nice a bit more?	20:40
BCMM	especially for apt-*, imho	20:40
RST38h	Because nice does not help there?	20:42
achipa	you need ionice for that	20:42
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RST38h	and hello, javispedro	20:42
javispedro	helo	20:43
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sivang	achipa: ? ;)	20:43
sivang	hey RST38h	20:43
* sivang tries to recall the way to specify primary and secondary nameserver in resolve.conf		20:44
merlin1991	just put the secondary in the 2nd line?	20:45
merlin1991	so the initial request goes to the primary?	20:45
DocScrutinizer	sivang: throttle=10	20:46
sivang	merlin1991: this seems to have terrible latency trying to query 127.0.0.1 before	20:46
sivang	DocScrutinizer: oh, right I should have remembered that discussion. Thanks, I will do this	20:46
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DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	20:46
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opdf2	I accidently deleted a folder in MyDocs. WHere can I find a list of the defualt folders created in the emmc?	20:49
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mgedmin	opdf2, you could download the eMMC image, unpack it with flasher, mount it with -o loop, and do an ls	20:50
mgedmin	or you could ask someone here	20:50
sivang	DocScrutinizer: what did MohammadAG patched in hildon to make it hog less the CPU?	20:50
* sivang is curious		20:50
lcuk	sivang, he hasn't patched anything in	20:50
tobis87	If Blizzard continues updating his script with this speed, he will have rev. 2.0.0 tonight, while really it is in 0.0.2. At least "Copyright (c) 2010 BLIZZARD" is a little bit better than OEM LTD.	20:51
lcuk	he has reverted a tweak made earlier adjusting the scrolling stuff	20:51
lcuk	OEM Ltf are a legit company according to google	20:51
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mgedmin	opdf2, I've .sounds, .videos, .documents, .images, .maps, Mac OS, cities, DCIM, backups -- I think all the rest were created by me or by some app	20:51
opdf2	mgedmin: thank you!	20:51
javispedro	you actually only need the first four afaik	20:52
javispedro	and DCIM	20:52
sivang	lcuk: oh, the tools page of Joerg links to a package he supposedly patched?	20:52
sivang	extras stil hosed btw?	20:52
* RevdKathy is gald to see lcuk back in IRC		20:52
* sivang checks topic		20:52
dRbiG	what app uses cities?	20:52
mgedmin	sivang, extras is unhosd	20:52
lcuk	RevdKathy, :)	20:52
RevdKathy	or even glad	20:52
javispedro	dRbiG: ovi maps	20:52
lcuk	trying normality	20:52
mgedmin	well, was unhosed maybe an hour ago, when I updated a bunch of stuff	20:52
RevdKathy	Hiya. Nice to see normality	20:52
sivang	hey RevdKathy	20:52
RevdKathy	Freenode wasn't the same without yo.	20:53
RevdKathy	Hi sivang	20:53
opdf2	where is .maps from?	20:53
opdf2	I don't remember that	20:53
* sivang tunrs off the away as he is postoning dinner some more.		20:53
opdf2	Maps without the . is from sygic I think	20:54
* sivang gets no room left on device again		20:54
sivang	I haven't installed anything and yet I get no room on device agani	20:54
sivang	darn	20:54
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achipa	sivang: http://linux.die.net/man/1/ionice, though that stuff is probably not directly applicable, due to eMMC specifics	20:56
achipa	~seen normality	20:56
RevdKathy	Hey achipa. :)	20:56
infobot	i haven't seen 'normality', achipa	20:56
achipa	hey	20:57
mgedmin	sivang, I seem to remember that running 'sync' triggers the jffs2 garbage collector and can free up some space	20:57
mgedmin	might be worth a try	20:58
mgedmin	I think these days the biggest hogs are apt's package lists in /var/cache/apt: if you have too many 3rd-party repos, your free space will shrink rapidly	20:58
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ShadowJK	andre__, what, not even a "Fixed in harmattan"? :-)	21:02
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andre__	ShadowJK, hehe, on which bug?	21:02
ShadowJK	bug 11354	21:03
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11354 gypsy-daemon can not parse GPRMC message from external GPS receiver	21:03
andre__	if I don't know whether it's fixed in Harmattan I cannot tell ;-)	21:03
andre__	I just try to warn to avoid too much expectation...	21:03
achipa	mgedmin: too many ? you mean like extras-testing and extras-devel ? :) those two alone are in the tens of megs	21:03
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tobis87	Has someone heard of a way to unload a driver which is built-in the kernel? I want to unload the cfg80211 driver and there is a cfg80211_exit symbol listed in /proc/kallsyms, but it is locally.	21:04
ShadowJK	andre__, I'd like to know what GPS device this thing was tested with to begin with, and whether it was Gates or Buffet that financed the purchase of a such a fancy unit that sends magnetic deviation and what not instead of just bare minimums :-)	21:05
DocScrutinizer	hi RevdKathy, lcuk	21:05
RevdKathy	Hi DocScrutinizer. How's you?	21:06
DocScrutinizer	hungry and with a lame left arm :-D	21:06
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DocScrutinizer	so, qite well	21:07
DocScrutinizer	quite even	21:07
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tobis87	Argh, This is the only thing which blocks using the injection driver with the stock kernel...	21:09
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johnsq	Hi	21:13
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DocScrutinizer	tobis87: if you find a way, please tell me. Would be handy for hostmode as well	21:14
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tobis87	Well there was a way to disable vdso32 at runtime by writing to 0 to the adress listed in System.map, but this is a sysctl value, I have no idea how I can call a module_exit function... But it has to be possible, I'm actually shocked that nobody ever found a way to do it, at least I have not found any reference.	21:19
slonopotamus	meh	21:19
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RST38h	wazZzd	21:22
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, powerlaunch talks to dsme about screen dimming. and, of course, relevant dsme module was not opensourced	21:23
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javispedro	tobis87: so, write your own module to do that. call it "the kernel breaker"	21:23
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MohammadAG	the\ kernel\ breaker.ko	21:23
MohammadAG	ko = knock out lol	21:23
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, all the magic should happen in /mnt/initfs/usr/lib/dsme/libinactivity-blank.so.0.0.0	21:25
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javispedro	MohammadAG: Coccothraustes.ko ("The genus name of Coccothraustes is Greek, meaning kernel breaker") ;)	21:26
Stskeeps	~flashing	21:26
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	21:26
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MohammadAG	lol javispedro	21:31
tobis87	Why? If no other driver rellies on it and the kernel also calls the drivername_exit function on shutdown. Nah, I do not flash the injection kernel, without knowing what he changed in it. I don't need it that much. But I hope cfg80211 will be compiled as module, if the hostmode kernel will become more stable.	21:32
MohammadAG	well	21:32
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MohammadAG	you can compile the stock kernel with the cfg thingy as a module	21:33
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DocScrutinizer	tobis87: once hostmode kernel is sufficiently stable (and cleaned from rubbish) then for sure we'll also have a look into supporting other things as well	21:33
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you tried it?	21:34
MohammadAG	no, but I am bored	21:35
DocScrutinizer	friggin musb_core for example will make kernel panic on boot, when compiled as module, afaik	21:35
MohammadAG	kernel-power has it done	21:36
MohammadAG	or the injection one	21:36
MohammadAG	CONFIG_CFG80211=y	21:36
DocScrutinizer	I'd not be too much surprised to find same thing for cfg80211 driver	21:36
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: oooh, I remember that. iirc because bme or dsme or someone couldn't find some sysfs file	21:36
DocScrutinizer	aah yes. of course, you're right	21:36
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: exactly. charger detect	21:37
tobis87	Thanks, there are so many different projects right now. Would be a pain if you have to compile it all for yourself. Hostmode, Pulseaudio, Ramzswap (swap notifier), Hw encryption, Injection...	21:37
tobis87	Overclocking should be extra	21:37
SpeedEvil	I wanna do accel-tap-input	21:37
SpeedEvil	too	21:38
DocScrutinizer	tobis87: I'm hoping for MohammadAG to integrate all into his community repo	21:38
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MohammadAG	on a related note	21:38
MohammadAG	can someone test the repo, pretty please? :)	21:38
DocScrutinizer	I bet you'll find more volunteers than you could even handle	21:39
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FIQ\|n900	what repo?	21:39
DocScrutinizer	see :-D	21:39
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MohammadAG	lol	21:40
FIQ\|n900	Meh, i just asked what you were talking about	21:40
FIQ\|n900	if it would interest me or not	21:40
MohammadAG	http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo/communityssu.install	21:41
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: that's the point exactly. Do a proper wiki page, listing the details and what it's suposed to do or good for	21:41
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, it's still not announced actually	21:41
MohammadAG	I'm not sure if HAM will upgrade	21:41
FIQ\|n900	mohammedAG, i've that activated already	21:41
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MohammadAG	I need a stock PR1.2 tester	21:41
DocScrutinizer	well, point me to a howto	21:42
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FIQ\|n900	btw, i happily tried a dist-upgrade some time ago, fully aware about the high screwup risk, but it failed. D:	21:43
RST38h	Mohammad: Forget HAM, not being able to do this with HAM will cut down on the number of lemmings	21:43
javispedro	and actually, I wonder if putting so many Weapons of Mass Destruction in the capable hands of lemmings is a good idea...	21:43
RST38h	FIQ: You actually expected it to succeed and ruin your setup?	21:44
FIQ\|n900	Not really	21:44
FIQ\|n900	but i think it was worth a try. :3	21:44
RST38h	javispedro: Actually, a VERY good idea, as long as they do not come to you asking "WHAT DOES THIS BUTTON DO???"	21:44
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delt	hello	21:45
tobis87	Yeah, if hw encryption becomes eventually stable, the mantainer seems to be too busy fixing bugs for Meego I assume right know and I cannot debug it, since the kernel crash doesn't leave anything in /dev/mtd2 and he surely has jtag... Anyway applying this patch would be very helpfull, since it increases the speed of the omap-sha1-md5 driver: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=72a1179ed41e0fc6bd5eb58e	21:45
RST38h	Mohammad: what are changes to your copy of ham?	21:45
delt	extras repo still broken? :(	21:45
FIQ\|n900	i downloaded some upgrades to hildon-* though	21:45
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: ping me later if you still need a tester.	21:46
MohammadAG	RST38h, it still sucks, I'll do a proper changelog once someone confirms this works	21:46
SpeedEvil	I'm going to sleep.	21:46
SpeedEvil	Busses suck.	21:46
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: I'm temped to place a single line like 'sudo cp /dev/null /dev/mtd' somewhere	21:46
RST38h	Doc: ah, please, do	21:47
* SpeedEvil has just walked 3 miles home.		21:47
RST38h	tmo.	21:47
delt	SpeedEvil: what country are you in?	21:47
SpeedEvil	Scotland.	21:47
SpeedEvil	The busses to be fair are on schedule.	21:47
delt	oh. must be around 6 pm there?	21:47
FIQ\|n900	hoever, the only thing preventing a dist-upgrade is busybox, but i don't care that much (as it's way unstable atm)	21:47
DocScrutinizer	without further explanation, but a tempting topic consisting of some buzzwords	21:47
SpeedEvil	And are somewhat usable.	21:47
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SpeedEvil	It's just I misread the timetable when tired.	21:47
delt	well, good nap =)	21:48
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RST38h	SpeedEvil: Is it still ok to kill locals with an arrow any day of the week, except when there is market in the town? =)	21:49
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: so many people have tried that on ubuntu forums they now have to show the banhammer when someone tries to do that to "poor" lemmings =)	21:50
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: hehe yes	21:50
MohammadAG	tobis87, want a stock kernel with cfg compiled as a module?	21:50
FIQ\|n900	oh, and btw, that optification shellscript, does someone have it?	21:50
RST38h	tmo is not an ubuntu forum	21:50
FIQ\|n900	i always end up with lots of crap in locales	21:50
MohammadAG	not tested, won't write /dev/zero to your mtds	21:50
DocScrutinizer	FIQ\|n900: eh??	21:50
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer: someone linked a maemo optify shell script for freeing up root space (moving tmp deb location, moving locale, python and other things)	21:51
tobis87	MohammadAG: Yes would be nice.	21:52
DocScrutinizer	FIQ\|n900: I'd guess that's not applicable nowadays, as all those should already be optified	21:52
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MohammadAG	done, LD [M] net/wireless/cfg80211.ko	21:52
* MohammadAG waits for dpkg-buildpackage to finish		21:52
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SpeedEvil	Personally, I'd quite like to arrange it so that if the emmc breaks, it boots, and you get telephony	21:53
SpeedEvil	At least 4 people here have been hit by that	21:53
mgedmin	so you can call tech support and complain?	21:53
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MohammadAG	I want another OS for only telephony or cameras	21:53
MohammadAG	camera*	21:53
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you're sure about the dev/zero part? XP	21:53
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, no :P	21:53
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SpeedEvil	mgedmin: So if I drop it, break the MMC, I can call 999 and report my broken leg	21:54
MohammadAG	leg = MMC solder leg?	21:54
SpeedEvil	no.	21:54
SpeedEvil	The one of 8 limbs I use to locomote.	21:55
SpeedEvil	2, I mean 2.	21:55
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javispedro	heh.	21:55
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mgedmin	(psst! most people have four)	21:55
* slonopotamus sends curses to powerlaunch author(s)		21:55
DocScrutinizer	lol	21:56
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil the spider	21:56
tobis87	So you only changed the makefile and it has still extraversion=-omap1? The modules on it should still be compatible, right?	21:56
* SpeedEvil is re-watching Babylon 5.		21:56
MohammadAG	mgedmin, nope, only 3 here	21:56
MohammadAG	right leg, left leg, middle leg	21:56
* MohammadAG laughs pervertedly		21:57
mgedmin	limbs are more than just legs	21:57
ds3	SpeedEvil: who's showing B5?	21:57
SpeedEvil	ds3: edonkey.	21:57
slonopotamus	ds3, mplayer	21:57
javispedro	bittorrent	21:57
ds3	Oh	21:57
slonopotamus	well, you got the idea	21:57
javispedro	=)	21:58
SpeedEvil	ds3: I have them on VHS somewhere, so I don't feel very guilty.	21:58
slonopotamus	pirate vhs of course? :)	21:58
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SpeedEvil	It's legitimate to time-shift.	21:58
MohammadAG	tobis87, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/cfgasmodule/	21:58
MohammadAG	kernel is 2.6.28-omap1, beware!	21:58
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: timeshift like 'watch download now, upload to the internets later' ?	21:59
MohammadAG	I don't really have to provide GPL code, it's the stock kernel with a changed .config	22:00
javispedro	MohammadAG: "beware" using the standard kernel?	22:00
MohammadAG	javispedro, no, beware as it will overwrite stock kernel :)	22:00
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MohammadAG	i.e modules in /lib/modules/	22:00
* MohammadAG has preboot SSH access		22:01
tobis87	Thanks :-D	22:01
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: Time shifting 16 years, though?	22:01
MohammadAG	tobis87, I suggest you install backupmenu	22:01
mgedmin	legitimate timeshifting is "watch download now, buy DVD at some point in the future (unless I cannot find it, or forget)"	22:01
MohammadAG	so if something wrong happens you can replace modules easily	22:01
MohammadAG	(ssh)	22:01
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: It's discriminating against people without eidetic memory.	22:01
MohammadAG	you don't have to use the backup features of it, just start up an SSH server	22:01
MohammadAG	if everything works fine, remove it	22:01
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: ADA/DDA FTW	22:02
nandan	I am running gcc -Wall -g hello.c -o helloworld in [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~]	22:02
nandan	i got error as	22:02
slonopotamus	no idea wtf is ada/dda, but ftw, yep	22:02
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: what I suggested	22:02
Jaffa	slonopotamus: Americans with Disabilities Act (US) or Disability Discrimination Act (UK)	22:02
nandan	SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set	22:03
mgedmin	audio CDs had labels like this... something about analog recording/digital mixing/analog mastering?	22:03
Jaffa	slonopotamus: I'm sure we can claim lack of photographic memory as a (widespread) disability.	22:03
Jaffa	mgedmin: AAD, ADD, DDD :-)	22:03
Jaffa	mgedmin: I've still got a couple which prominently say which	22:03
tobis87	MohammadAG: Is there not a parameter for the flasher to load the kernel remotely? I could add the cfg80211 manuelly later.	22:03
mgedmin	x86 had ADD and DDD instructions, IIRC	22:03
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Jaffa	mgedmin: 6502 has ADA, IIRC	22:03
SpeedEvil	mgedmin: DAA says fuzzy memory	22:03
SpeedEvil	mgedmin: I don't think there was a DDD	22:04
MohammadAG	tobis87, yes	22:04
MohammadAG	flasher-3.5 -k zImage -l -b	22:04
slonopotamus	i hate those of you who decided to use autotools in their projects	22:04
javispedro	slonopotamus: you hate quite a lot of people then =)	22:04
mgedmin	no DDD, but there was an AAA	22:04
slonopotamus	javispedro, it's their fault	22:04
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mgedmin	it would be hard to make an AAA CD	22:05
mgedmin	autotools rule	22:05
tobis87	Thanks, first time booting a custom kernel...	22:05
mgedmin	nandan, I think you may have created the scratchbox target incorrectly?	22:05
mgedmin	how did you do it?	22:05
nandan	okk	22:05
nandan	how should i correct scratchbox target	22:06
slonopotamus	mgedmin, autotools is a slow, ugly, hard-to-debug piece of crap.	22:06
nandan	now	22:06
slonopotamus	especially libtool	22:06
nandan	any link	22:06
javispedro	autotools flame! i am already missing yesterday's gconf flame	22:06
MohammadAG	tobis87, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/cfgasmodule/zImage if you cba to extract	22:06
mgedmin	nobody loves libtool	22:06
slonopotamus	mgedmin, why the hell everyone uses it then?	22:07
nandan	i googled but not got gud sol.	22:07
slonopotamus	i think 95% of libtool users can't explain why they need libtool in their project	22:07
slonopotamus	(because they don't need it actually)	22:08
mgedmin	nandan, I ran maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh under bash, and I think it worked fine...	22:08
DocScrutinizer	WAAAAAA libtool	22:08
* DocScrutinizer headdesks		22:08
mgedmin	it's something like sb-conf st fremantle-armel -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 -t qemu-arm-sb	22:08
mgedmin	or maybe -t qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2	22:08
mgedmin	I really don't remember :/	22:08
nandan	okk	22:09
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I could help you out of that :-P gconf SUCKS!	22:09
tobis87	MohammadAG: Is this the same file as the zImage-2.6.28-20101501+0m5.fiasco inside the deb?	22:09
slonopotamus	hehe	22:09
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: gconf RULES! thanks!	22:09
mgedmin	scratchbox is a bit of a BIG PAIN IN THE posterior	22:10
slonopotamus	javispedro, it doesn't solve any real problem.	22:10
javispedro	mgedmin: WHAT? scratchbox rules!	22:10
mgedmin	yeah, well, you go and help nandan then	22:10
* javispedro sighs		22:10
MohammadAG	tobis87, no, you have to extract that	22:10
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* mgedmin cackles maniacally		22:10
MohammadAG	flasher-3.5 -F zImage*.fiasco -u	22:10
nandan	sb-conf st fremantle-armel -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 -t qemu-arm-sb	22:11
nandan	gives	22:11
nandan	sb-conf: No such CPU-transparency method: 'qemu-arm-sb'.	22:11
nandan	Perhaps you forgot to select the devkit which includes it.	22:11
tobis87	so this is the extracted fiasco	22:11
slonopotamus	w/e. this damn powerlaunch cannot ./autogen.sh from svn	22:11
mgedmin	sb-conf st fremantle-armel -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 -t qemu-arm-sb -d perl:debian-etch:qemu:doctools:svn:git	22:12
mgedmin	-d lists devkits	22:12
mgedmin	and then you also need sb-conf rs ... and sb-conf in ...	22:12
slonopotamus	and after fixing it wants gconf and gtk o_O	22:12
mgedmin	I couldn't be bothered to figure everything out so I gave in and ran the installer script	22:12
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DocScrutinizer	anybody encountered problems with extras repo during last ~8h ?	22:41
DocScrutinizer	hmm	22:42
DocScrutinizer	anybody used HAM update or install successfully during last ~8h?	22:43
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		22:43
mgedmin	o/	22:43
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. \| Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid"		22:43
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mgedmin	today I noticed a blinking "there are updates!" icon and updated with HAM showing me no errors	22:44
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mgedmin	yesterday when I noticed a blinking "yay updates!" icon, I could update a few apps, but HAM also complained about extras being not-up-to-date-because-of-an-error	22:44
mgedmin	so I'd say the error that plagued extras yesterday was fixed	22:44
DocScrutinizer	k, thanks	22:44
mgedmin	or maybe random CDN cache effects made me see it in one network but not in another one	22:45
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: I tried, but it failed	22:47
sivang	"some sources could not be fetched" thing	22:47
* mgedmin tries now		22:47
sivang	now, is there an modest equivalent to tracker-processes -t ?	22:47
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mgedmin	works fine	22:48
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tobis87	Loading the custom kernel, causes the device to hang, but it even looks as if it starts charging, blinking led, black background... Would flashing the kernel make a difference?	23:23
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ShadowJK	fucking sim card	23:24
jacekowski	it maybe rapuyama failing	23:24
jacekowski	may be*	23:24
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ShadowJK	yeah :/	23:24
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ShadowJK	it's only failing when I move around more actively tho	23:25
ShadowJK	it works fine when I sit still	23:26
ShadowJK	could be antenna or sim card holder too I suppose?	23:27
SpeedEvil	I am calling tmo tomorrow to get a new SIM	23:28
RevdKathy	Goodnight all	23:28
SpeedEvil	Night.	23:28
ShadowJK	nini	23:28
ShadowJK	I have a second card with me	23:28
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ShadowJK	somewhere..	23:29
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: antenna - nope	23:30
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sivang	damn latency..	23:31
ShadowJK	I've seen the same icon displayed when I've intentionally obstructed signal at random intervals before tho	23:32
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sivang	is there a way to shutdown evlution data server and modest?	23:40
sivang	simialr to tracker-processes -t?	23:40
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* sivang thinks of killing the dsme		23:41
pupnik	despite zero privacy, i use webmail, cause clients always seem to be headache prone	23:41
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: there are simpler methods to trigger reboot	23:42
ShadowJK	I hate webmail, I've never found one light enough to not have huge ui latencies due to browser spending cpu rendering	23:42
sivang	DocScrutinizer: is there wa way then to selectively disable those apps?	23:42
ShadowJK	or one close enough latency-wise :/	23:42
sivang	why do I need evolution data server if I never use exchange?	23:43
sivang	ShadowJK: well, you can use gmail's imap no?	23:43
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sivang	if only modest would have liked it...	23:43
DocScrutinizer	what, modest? should be really simple, evo prolly as well	23:43
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sivang	I really need to test it using after I upgrade to 1.2	23:43
DocScrutinizer	comment them out in init ?	23:43
sivang	I heard there were a couple performance improvements done to it in 1.2	23:44
sivang	symbian's mail client is superb with regard to using gmail as an imap backend, on the contrary	23:44
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: can I like /etc/init.d/modest stop?	23:44
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: or remove it from inittab and restart?	23:44
DocScrutinizer	if there's a /etc/init.d/modest then prolly yes	23:45
sivang	there isn't :/	23:45
sivang	that's why I was asking.	23:45
* sivang recheks		23:45
Shadikka	Why did I read that as /etc/init.d/molest	23:45
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jacekowski	modest is kind of a disaster	23:47
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kerio	because modest uses your emails in a inappropriate way	23:47
jacekowski	like what?	23:48
jacekowski	looking them under skirts?	23:48
sivang	hehe	23:48
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kerio	show me your headers baby	23:48
DocScrutinizer	sivang: /etc/osso-cud-scripts/*	23:48
DocScrutinizer	sivang: /etc/osso-rfs-scripts/*	23:49
* sivang wonders wy it is not in a normal linux std location and naming		23:49
* sivang pokes		23:49
DocScrutinizer	sivang: /etc/init.d/as-daemon-0	23:50
* sivang tomboys		23:50
DocScrutinizer	generally 'grep -r modest /etc	23:50
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: I was just abou to do that before you responsed :-)	23:50
sivang	jacekowski: why is inspecting the headers taking so long?	23:50
jacekowski	well, i suppose because it's opening 100s of e-mails	23:51
jacekowski	and reading part of them	23:51
DocScrutinizer	PPID of modest is 1	23:51
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: that happens when parent terminates	23:51
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	23:51
jacekowski	or gets killed	23:51
DocScrutinizer	or it's started by init	23:51
jacekowski	that's an option too	23:52
sivang	jacekowski: the symbian reader does the same no? it does it in fraction of the time	23:52
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jacekowski	nope it doesn't	23:52
jacekowski	i suppose it's using proper database with stuff	23:52
sivang	jacekowski: it only downloads the headers and not part of the message?	23:53
sivang	jacekowski: it also notified you of the email before the web ajax updates your browser window, rad!	23:53
jacekowski	downloading and reading them every time is different	23:53
sivang	*notifies	23:53
sivang	ah I see	23:53
jacekowski	symbian downloads them and then reads them and then it's stored somewhere	23:53
jacekowski	and modest as kerio said reads them every fucking time	23:54
sivang	geez	23:54
sivang	I see	23:54
sivang	so sybmian mail diffs for the new stuff only?	23:54
jacekowski	i'm not sure how symbian is it doing	23:54
jacekowski	but i would expect that it reads headers once	23:54
sivang	anyway, modest was not killed it	23:54
jacekowski	and writes them into some sort of index/database file	23:54
* ShadowJK never managed to access his email with any symbian mail client...		23:55
jacekowski	and uses that	23:55
sivang	jacekowski: when it does that, it provides progress as well - so you don't wait and think what's happenoing	23:55
sivang	ShadowJK: works like a pure charm	23:55
sivang	for me at least	23:55
sivang	but it appeasr sybmian mail downloads the header quite much faster, or maybe it is just because of the headers arriving in	23:56
sivang	and you see them	23:56
sivang	it also takes it tons of time to show the folders	23:56
sivang	odd	23:56
sivang	anyway, enough ranting, I wuold be better attempting ptaches	23:56
sivang	it is suprising how much difference showing progress makes for the user.	23:57
sivang	it can make certain software look as if it is operating faster than those that do not have a proper progress.	23:57
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kerio	ui does matter	23:58
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sivang	modest wouldn't die..	23:59
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