IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-09-29

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nox-DocScrutinizer, :)00:01
nox-what other apps are affected?00:01
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DocScrutinizerdunno, probably quite some00:02
DocScrutinizerahh, and for the 'status bar applet', this is simpler: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/ext_kb_repeat_enabled --type boolean true00:03
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nox-yes, but maybe i want to switch back to the original behaviour sometime...  (tho that hasnt happened yet)00:04
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DocScrutinizergrr wiki is down?00:05
DocScrutinizeraah, no. After 5 times clicking save and waiting 90s, it finally saved the page00:06
DocScrutinizernox-: s/true/false/ if you ever want to go back00:06
nox-DocScrutinizer, would x apps be affected by the return key problem too?  bc otherwise i guess one could just patch xterm to return a normal return character in keypad mode (or just ignore ks/ke completely?)00:07
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nox-DocScrutinizer, yes i meant `easily w/o having to remember a long command' :)00:08
dRbiGanyone any idea how to rebuild the app menu list?00:08
DocScrutinizerwhy patch xterm, if you can fix the mapping?00:08
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nox-DocScrutinizer, sure if that works...00:09
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DocScrutinizertbh I fear you have to UNpatch xterm, to work correctly with normal CR00:10
nox-DocScrutinizer, i just see that keypad return in an xterm on my desktop pc doesnt send those weird esc sequences either...00:10
nox-in less i mean00:11
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* lardman worries that qtcreator.bin is sat at 100%+ CPU usage still00:11
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DocScrutinizernox-: I have no idea what exactly has been screwed there, but obviously they did it thoroughly00:12
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nox-DocScrutinizer, this only happens in less bc less sends ks/ke, and i dont know how useful keypad mode is on n900's spartan kbd anyway :)00:12
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DocScrutinizernox-: eh? it quite obviously affects every app that uses raw keycodes00:13
nox-ah, out of xterm too?00:13
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DocScrutinizersuch as editors, IRC clients :-), several cmdline programs like less and others that wait for keystrokes00:14
nox-console ones?00:15
nox-or gui?00:15
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DocScrutinizerno idea00:15
DocScrutinizerI'm talking bout terminal here00:15
nox-well there the breakage seems to be in keypad mode00:16
DocScrutinizerI expect we'll see a can of worms popping open if this ever gets fixed properly00:16
DocScrutinizerheard about vnc and whatnot having problems, and once it's fixed at rootcause level, all the apps that work now will break then :-S00:17
nox-but if this affects terminal apps only it could be patched in xterm00:17
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DocScrutinizera typical case of "we did it wrong for xy on 770 back in 1990, so let's keep backward compatibility and mess up everything so it all behaves similarly fubar"00:18
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DocScrutinizerthen call this "differentiation" :-P00:19
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delt@topic (extras repo) which would be why the "maemo-extras" is disabled (greyed out) on the tablet? wild guess -)00:20
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DocScrutinizernope, usually it gets red when an error occurs00:21
DocScrutinizernot disabled00:21
* ShadowJK cleaned sim card contacts with some unknown heavy solvent00:22
delt(connected to charger) ... i just saw it a minute ago, 3 other "catalogs" and the 4th one maemo-extras greyed out00:23
ShadowJKseems to vaguely work... back batt seems stone dead though00:23
DocScrutinizerthe rubber method is clearly the nicer one00:23
delt(in application manager)00:23
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, only had tissue and light petroleum derived grease remover00:24, india has an anti-skype policy, or skype has an anti-india policy?00:24
jacekowskisort of both00:24
jacekowskiindia has antiencryption policy00:24
jacekowskiand skype has antiantiencryption policy00:24
deltahhhh fixed FINALLY *kicks back with a good cold one*00:24
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Arkenoiskype antiantiencryption is not reliable00:25
Arkenoiwe need zRTP00:25
deltok, i can ping the tablet (which is charging in the other room)00:25
deltso there's no telnet/sshd by default?00:26
DocScrutinizer"update partially failed, some repositories aren't available. click details for details" -> "failing repos:, tools"00:26
DocScrutinizerboth got a (!) instead of globe as an icon in catalogs menu00:27
DocScrutinizernot grayed out though00:27
DocScrutinizerclicking one of the (!) catalogs opens a red error log at bottom of usual settings screen00:28
DocScrutinizernot deactivated00:28
deltjacekowski: hehehe00:28
deltand i suppose india would have retaliated with antiantiantiencryption policy by now? =-)00:29
delt1:30 until meeting... time to relax a bit00:30
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DocScrutinizerbut HAM gone mad about the borked repos? it wants to update load applet 0.4.6-5 to version 0.4.6-5 (sic!)00:30
deltboréale beer is good.00:31
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nox-delt, see my log, obama now wants something similar...00:31
infobotnox- meant: delt, see my link, obama now wants something similar...00:31
deltobama bin laden?00:31
delt<--- REALLY not into politics00:32
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MohammadAGpolitics suck00:32
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DocScrutinizeridiots suck00:32
delti just know mr.bean is the new vatican "pope" mascot00:32
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, politicians* :P00:33
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DocScrutinizerif encryption is outlawed, we need steganography00:33
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deltvaccuums suck00:34
DocScrutinizerwill they never learn they got no chance to *forbid*00:34
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RST38hSorry folks, but where do I find postinst scripts?00:34
RST38hfor installed packages00:34
DocScrutinizerin the package?00:34
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure if they are deleted after successful execution. Maybe look into /var/apt/cache or sth like that00:35
RST38hOMG, idiots00:36
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* RST38h spells it: Instinctiv. People. Are. Idiots.00:36
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DocScrutinizeridiots suck00:36
RST38hThey wrote postinst script in freaking PYTHON!00:36
DocScrutinizeroh, I already mentioned this00:36
RST38hSo, no Python,no carrot00:36
MohammadAGthat'll be $5000:36
MohammadAGhand them over, NAO00:36
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RST38hHave you mentioned it in their thread?00:37
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RST38hActually, to be exact, you can insert their carrot all right, but its removal is somewhat complicated00:37
MohammadAG<RST38h> They wrote postinst script in freaking PYTHON!00:37
DocScrutinizerpeople's thread?00:37
marmouteRST38h: for what package is it ?00:37
nox-there's a famous quote, `if privacy is outlawed only outlaws will have privacy'00:37
MohammadAGinfobot, $5000:37
* infobot takes the cash and sucks mohammadag off00:37
deltinfobot, $0.0500:38
DocScrutinizernox-: exactly00:38
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deltnox: heard that one about guns, but guess it holds true for anything, heh00:39
MohammadAGnight peeps00:39
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deltpight neeps MohammadAG00:39
DocScrutinizernox-: until recently USA just forbid exporting of PGP code, so their ECHELON can better do industry spy on western europe countries. Now they gone mad and forbid for their own people :-S00:40
* RST38h gathers some rotten tomatoes and heads to the tmo00:40
nox-DocScrutinizer, oh yeah the 56bit des and `encryption == munitions' nonsense...00:41
delthuman. politics. are. a. failure. 6000 years of history have proven that time and time again and countless times again and again00:41
lardmannight chaps00:41
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DocScrutinizerplus the NSA key in windows :-P00:41
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deltmkay, so let's say i want to compile /usr/src/myfavoriteproject/ to run it on the n810 ..... i need a sdk right?00:42
DocScrutinizerwhich has been explained with even higher plausibility than the whole UFO nonsense00:42
DocScrutinizerwut? /usr/src ??00:43
deltor /tmp/src/whateverproject00:43
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DocScrutinizerI suggest first thing you do is copy it to ~/myproj/src00:44
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deltyeah, /usr/src only has a very few select projects =) (which my normal user account have rwx of course)00:44
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infobotdelt meant: yeah, /usr/src only has a very few select projects =) (which my normal user account has rwx of course)00:45
DocScrutinizeryou're not supposed to have any w on /usr00:45
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deltso root is in trouble....00:45
DocScrutinizeractually nobody usually has to write to /usr, you could even mount r/o00:45
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deltyeah, someone else told me that not long ago.00:46
infoboti heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence300:46
DocScrutinizersee links up ther00:46
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delttbh im the only one using my entire network (this side of the gateway) so unless someone guesses the exact name of something in /usr/src and comes up with some http hack that exploits it through apache or something similar...00:47
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, thanks! cleaning contacts has made it hellovalot more stable00:47
deltbut, yeah i admit, its still a kind of bad habit if i become a network admin some day00:47
DocScrutinizerjust in case you didn't know (and as it seems I'm the last person on this planet to remember) usr is not user, it's something like unix system resources00:48
delts/become/am hired as/00:48
infobotdelt meant: but, yeah i admit, its still a kind of bad habit if i am hired as a network admin some day00:48
DocScrutinizereven supplementary00:48
DocScrutinizeror sharable00:49
sivangDocScrutinizer: I always knew it wasn't user, but did not know what it is00:49
deltmy unix classes were in french, they never taught us that :/00:49
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deltand being ignorant, i always assumed it meant "user"00:50
deltso, me learn other thing new today!00:51
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sivanghow does sb manages to run autotools stuff unmodified for cross compile? I found and old slideswork the explains that this is what makes cross complication not hard.00:51
SpeedEvilShadowJK: :)00:51
sivangShadowJK: address book?00:52
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sivang"Autotools-based build scripts can be run on Scratchbox without modification00:52
sivangwhen building for the target00:52
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deltso, to cross compile /tmp/src/someproject/ to install on the tablet... i need a SDK right?00:52
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: unvarnished paper (such as of some business cards) is a really good contact cleaner00:52
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DocScrutinizerhard and rough enough for dirt, still gentle to contacts00:53
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sivangdelt: yes, either scratchbox or NokiaQtSDK00:53
DocScrutinizeryou won't need the SDK for long. your /tmp project will be gone after next boot :-D00:54
deltQt as in, the kde widget kit?00:54
deltof my pc?00:54
deltnot /tmp on the n810!!00:55
ShadowJKsivang, what?00:55
sivangdelt: you install NokiaQtSDK onto te host, the pc00:55
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sivangShadowJK: "cleaning contacts" -> I thought it was in osso-addressbook00:56
ShadowJKsivang, no gprs was dropping all the time, and also signal alltogether00:56
deltand it modifies my /etc/rc.* stuff to rm -rf /tmp/* on boot?00:56
DocScrutinizerdelt: even worse: Programs must not assume that any files or directories in /tmp are preserved between invocations of the program.00:56
ShadowJKI cleaned the physical contacts on the physical sim card00:56
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deltDocScrutinizer: even my shell scripts don't00:56
sivangShadowJK: ah!00:56
sivangdelt: why do you want to put your source in /tmp ?00:57
deltsivang: to compile, install, and rm -rf00:57
DocScrutinizeryeah, it's complete nonsense00:57
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delti even (usually) have a /tmp/src/ directory00:57
DrWilkenHi, anybody looking into the Extras repository problem?00:57
DocScrutinizerDrWilken: /topic00:58
deltDocScrutinizer: that "ouch" has anything to do with my /tmp/src any chance?00:58
deltoh ok00:58
DocScrutinizerdelt: of course00:58
DocScrutinizerwhat else00:58
deltso ~/src/myproject..... *DUCK*00:58
lindi-delt: /tmp/src kind of fails in a multiuser system :)00:58
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deltOK, I KNOW im not supposed to have read, write, or execute access on my own ~ !!!!!!00:59
* DocScrutinizer suggests ~/myproject/src00:59
DocScrutinizeror ~/projects/myproj/src00:59
deltnow lets say several user accounts need to work on that00:59
nox-then you use a vcs00:59
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DrWilkenI'm guessing that's a yes then... ;) C y'all...01:00
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DocScrutinizerthen create a pseudouser in /home/ourProj01:00
deltnox-: is that a typo and you meant "cvs"??01:00
DocScrutinizerand add this pseudouser to every team menbers groups01:01
delton the same machine/server let's say =)01:01
lindi-delt: version control system, not just cvs but something else too01:01
nox-delt, actually not, but cvs is one of them (an old one tho :)01:01
sivangdelt: vcs is "versoin control system"01:02
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deltexcept the c stands for concurrent, or else it wouldnt make sense in normal spoken/written english01:02
deltanymore than sivang's last sentence01:02
sivangoh right :)01:02
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nox-but yeah i meant version control system01:03
nox-cvs, svn, git, hg...01:03
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nox-that too01:03
delthg is mercurial right?01:04
sivangdamn good one01:04
deltso NokiaQtSDK .... Qt means the GUI toolkit (as used by kde)??01:04
DocScrutinizeryep, basically01:04
sivangdelt: not only for GUI, it is a full abstraction on top of the underlying platform01:04
deltyeah, thats what we're using for schism tracker... works quite well.01:04
deltand maemo's UI runs on top of that?01:05
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sivangdelt: not quite it is actually using gtk+ in the core, and apps are encouraged to use qt01:05
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sivangis this right ?01:05
DocScrutinizerso with Qt you got the future01:05
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delteventually as in "somewhere in the food chain" or as in "we're working on fucking everything up"....?01:05
sivangdelt: ?01:05
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sivanginterestingly this slides say that SB2 support work is ongoing.01:06
sivangDocScrutinizer: is that so?01:06
deltpersonally i prefer gtk apps over kde/qt, and i also prefer to write in good old standard C compared to this mutant hideous deformed monstrosity called C++01:07
DocScrutinizerno idea01:07
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sivangdelt: actually, gtk is not standard C per se ;)01:07
DocScrutinizerand Qt doesn't force you in a all C++ style either01:08
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sivangdelt: yes, it is actually adding/modifying standard C++ to be more like a late binding language, some of the things there remind me of niceties in Python as an example01:09
deltpoint taken into account, and to be revised/considered sometime in the next millenia.01:09
sivangDocScrutinizer: we should work in Forum Nokia ;)01:09
* DocScrutinizer sighs01:09
DocScrutinizerwe should receive a care packet from Nokia every 3 days, if we even considered to do01:10
sivangDocScrutinizer: care, as in social care? ;)01:10
DocScrutinizeras in post-WW-II01:10
DocScrutinizerwith some candybars, a glass of honey, some coffee and cigarettes01:11
deltand beer01:11
sivangDocScrutinizer: that's a bit harsh though don't you think?01:11
DocScrutinizerthough I think I don't like the beer Nokia will send from Helsinki01:11
* sivang heard the beer is quite good.01:12
DocScrutinizergot better one here, from my brewery next door01:12
deltexcept cigarettes, i dont smoke =) though ppl smoking around me never bothers me01:12
sivangDocScrutinizer: well, it is hard to top you - you are in Scotland.01:12
DocScrutinizererr nope01:13
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delt<--- in Scotlanada01:13
sivangDocScrutinizer: ah , okay01:13
sivangI was confusing you with SpeedEvil ?01:13
DocScrutinizerthe area where a brewery per 1000 residents or so01:13
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* sivang wonders what ended with the gconf discussion, I had to run away from the office just then.01:14
sivangDocScrutinizer: where in Franconia?01:15
DocScrutinizerprobably here in franconia we got more breweries than all the rest of this planet together01:15
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sivangDocScrutinizer: close to the french border?01:15
deltspricht jemand hier deutsch?01:15
DocScrutinizer~weather EDDN01:15
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.09.28 2150 UTC; Dew Point: 50 F (10 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 100%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 50 F (10 C); Visibility: 4 mile(s); Wind: from the W (280 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT)01:16
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deltich hab ein wenig gelernt01:16
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DocScrutinizernope, not even infobot01:16
sivangDocScrutinizer: 10c, great01:16
sivangDocScrutinizer: don;t ask, I'm a winter type.01:16
delthe is, raeli?01:17
delt"use a pun, go to jail" :D01:17
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deltok, better get ready for meeting... cya all01:19
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sivangwhat a nice pic-
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* sivang -> (night, sleep);01:29
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h4waiiArgh. 4 random reboots today.01:30
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lollooguys, how can I know if someone is connected to my SSH server on my N900?01:59
mgedminwould 'w' tell you?02:00
jpinx-eeepcusers ?02:00
mgedminor 'who'?02:00
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kerioyou should never doubt that02:01
mgedmindon't make fun of hoary unix command names02:01
jpinx-eeepclolloo: how would they connect ? Bluetooth?02:01
kerioif you are, then it means that your security is crap02:01
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keriomgedmin: huh? i know of w and users02:01
mgedminI didn't know of /usr/bin/users, but I know of /usr/bin/who02:02
lollooif they are connected to me wirelessly via SSH how would I Know their IP?02:02
mgedminw/who will tell you02:02
lollooshall I type it in X-terminal?02:03
nidOyes, just type who02:03
nidOand it shows you logged in sessions02:03
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lolloowho command didnt show my friends IP02:05
lolloohe is connected right now via SSH02:05
lolloobut I cant seem to see his IP02:06
keriohack into his gibson!02:06
lolloook my friend02:06
lollooit show alot of things02:07
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* timeless_pidgin waves from um... Liverpool? 02:16
lcukhi timeless_pidgin02:16
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nox-where are you going to timeless_pidgin?02:16
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lcuklukes girlfriend lives 1 click away form liverpool02:17
h4waiilolloo, so look for whichever port you're running SSHd bound on02:18
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lcukrotation rotation rotation02:20
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lolloook h4waii, I know the port... how do I list the IPs connected to that port?02:22
mgedminnetstat -tn02:22
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mgedmin(without the -n it will likely show hostnames)02:22
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keriolcuk: <.< v.v >.> ^.^02:25
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lollooyes thank you!02:25
lcukg:D konami code?02:25
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keriono, it's a rotation02:25
lcuki need to go rotation of bitmaps so i can rotate everylike like the sketches :)02:26
lcukand my god whiskey is strong02:26
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keriodon't code while drunk!02:26
lcukeven if its new code?02:26
keriothat's how windows ME started02:26
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lcuki have been blockin on a certain function for a while02:27
* lcuk attacks it02:27
ShadowJKgot kicked offline again for 1.5h, only reboot worked :/02:27
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* lcuk has been rebooting his brain02:28
lcukwell that wasnt so bad i managed to loginto scratchbox02:29
timeless_pidginHi lcuk02:31
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lcuk\o timeless_pidgin02:32
lcukhow was ireland02:33
* ShadowJK suspects if he orders new sim card from operator, they'll silently drop multisim and data service... :/02:33
* SpeedEvil holds up a tube of conductive epoxy.02:36
* SpeedEvil wonders if you can get conductive hotmelt.02:36
timeless_pidginIreland was good02:36
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timeless_pidginI'll try to put up photos at some point02:36
lcukcool timeless_pidgin02:37
lcukhow long are you in liverpool for?02:37
timeless_pidginThrough Sunday or thereabouts02:37
lcukwhere is next on the agenda?02:39
lcukbtw, someone mentioned mxr was giving strange warnings02:39
lcukin the head of each result page02:39
lcukdid not prevent the contents, but showed a big "Warning:" label02:39
lcukdid not show on the meego mxr02:40
lcukthink it was DocScrutinizer02:40
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lcukdid i mention how strong this whiskey was?02:41
lcukhey b-man`02:44
ieatlintmmm, whiskey02:44
b-man`hello lcuk :)02:44
lcukhows the traffic light02:44
* b-man` just got back from a cross-country meet and is exhausted02:44
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lcukwhu cant i have an irc to chat system like #fmcg has \@/ i could type with my eyes closed02:45
b-man`_everyone_ is making jokes about my traffic light xD02:45
lcukthey are cool02:45
lcukyou got yourself something awesome02:45
b-man`yeah :)02:45
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b-man`brb - dinner02:47
lcukc++ is strange02:47
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DocScrutinizer51lcuk: mxr is really broken02:48
lcukDocScrutinizer51, unsynced?02:48
DocScrutinizer51it doesn't just show warnings, it also shows "fatal" on search pages, and consequently also has not a single refernce href on any function or var02:49
DocScrutinizer51basically the x in mxr lost its meaning02:50
* lcuk shakes head that this drink is far too much alcohol for one human to cope with02:50
lcukok well I am sure timeless_pidgin will try and solve it as soon as possible :)02:50
lcukbut he is afc for a while02:51
lcuki am heading into code02:51
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* GeneralAntilles yawns.03:03
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timeless_pidginIf someone happens to know when the xref broke, that'd help03:25
timeless_pidginAlso is it broken for all roots or only some?03:25
timeless_pidginBut please catalogue answers and send me an email. I won't look before next week.03:26
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kwtmHi. I'm trying to remap my N900 keyboard to contain the commonly used symbols <>[]{}`|^~@% . Am I able to use Shift-Sym as a key combination to produce new symbols?03:27
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RangasameeeDudes, I have a proposition for buying a n900 and n81003:43
Rangasameeen810 is half the price ($140)03:43
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kwtmRangasameee: No contest: n900 is much more useful since you can get a cell phone data plan.  If you can't, then ok to consider 810.03:43
RangasameeeDo you think I will help get enough performance by installing maemo over it (N810)03:44
RangasameeeI already have droid03:44
RangasameeeI want to play with new builds of maemo/meego03:44
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Rangasameeekwtm, do you think n810 will be slow for maemo03:45
kwtmGood question.  I don't know.  Since it comes with Maemo (4, I think), I would say it shouldn't be too bad.03:45
kwtmFor me it's more a matter of the hardware.  But I have no experience with the 810, so you should check out the forums for comments.03:46
kwtmOr come back to the channel in about 6 - 12 hours; it will be much more active.03:46
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Rangasameeekwtm, Kool, I will check it03:50
Rangasameeewhat are you using?03:50
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kwtmn900. Go anywhere, be connected.  If I wanted to be restricted to someone's wifi area, I would have gotten a netbook.04:03
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pupniki'd like to be on triton worrying about network reception, directing new robot mining operations04:04
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kwtmYou could use your n900 on triton, but the roaming charges would kill you.04:05
johnxRangasameee, you want an N900 if you're planning to play with meego, unless you're willing to wait for the Nokia N9 or whatever04:05
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kwtmYESSSS!!!!  YES YES Yes Yes yes yes . . .04:11
kwtmer, don't mind me.04:11
* kwtm is finally able to get his N900 keyboard to make sense.04:11
* kwtm wonders why no one else seems to be using Shift-Alt to generate a whole new set of characters without resorting to that Alt-Sym key to call up the virtual keyboard.04:12
* kwtm is getting addicted to using emotes instead of actually talking.04:13
pupnikshft-alt eh04:13
pupniki've added a few of my own04:14
* kwtm no longer needs to worry about having to type [c] [d] [space] [Shift] [Sym] [tilde] [tilde] just to navigate to the home dir04:14
pupnikwhat do you type?04:14
kwtmNow I type [Shift] [Alt] [y].  But I can press Shift/Alt at the same time.04:15
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kwtmAlso, when I call up those symbols, I don't get the whole screen turning blurry and then being overlaid by a table of symbols just to type one symbol.04:16
pupnikyeah i never used that04:16
kwtm--which I have to type TWICE because the first time it thinks the tilde is some accent I'm going to add to a letter.04:16
kwtm---- which doesn't make sense because that accent is only ever added to the letter N.  So why doesn't it just type the letter n-with-tilde already?  I mean, am I going to type tilde-f or something???04:17
pupnikhmm i don't have to do that -04:17
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kwtmI also took the liberty of removing the at-sign from the space bar.  I mean, the space bar should be space bar whether you're holding down shift or alt or whatever.04:17
pupniki'm torn between the n900 and the mini-laptop04:17
kwtmpupnik: Does the mini-laptop have DVD drive?04:18
ShadowJKwhich minilaptop?04:18
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* nox- finally got the fennec 2.0 nightly installed...04:25
pupnikhow is it nox?04:27
nox-so far seems alright04:27
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pupnikyou know, a 4.5 vs 3.5 inch screen could give 1024x600 resolution with similar density to the n90004:29
pupnikimagine that extra inch when webbrowsng04:30
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luke-jr_pupnik: imagine? you mean just look at a N810?04:32
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johnxhe said an inch, not half an inch04:33
johnxanyways, it's kinda useless without more pixels as well04:34
luke-jr_resolution only affects quality04:34
johnxand quality affects legibility04:35
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ShadowJKthe n810 screen is nicer to look at, but it could also be because the os lets you fullscreen everything and doesnt waste space on huge ui elements04:37
johnxnever really had much time with an N810, just my N800. the N810 was transflective, right?04:38
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johnxI'd actually be perfectly happy with a bigger screen04:40
johnxseems to be the direction things are swinging again04:41
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deltso, thanks to you guys i have a working n810 instead of a brick =)04:49
kwtmI get a bigger screen by holding my n900 closer to my eye.04:49
johnxdelt, woo!04:49
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kwtmIn fact, I have a bigscreen TV.  But only for my left eye. :)04:49
delthaha, im near sighted, so i prefer a smaller screen closer to my eye(s)04:49
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delti like watching movies comfortably on my bed with the laptop on my stomach =) much better than even a huge tv more than 2 meters away04:50
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deltso, the thing is still in "r&d mode". pros/cons of leaving it like that vs. putting it back to normal?04:51
kwtmYeah, baby!!!  Escape key with Shift-Alt-Bksp instead of having to tap that screen!04:51
johnxkwtm, so I bet you hate '3D' TVs and movies just about as much as I do :)04:51
GeneralAntillesWhy hate 3D movies?04:52
johnxdelt, heard rumors it ends up leaving some clocks on during idle and marginally reduces battery life. not sure if that's true or not04:52
delt"3D" as in crt? hehe04:52
kwtmjohnx: I guess for 3d movies I'd buy another N900, hold it up to my right eye, and then make sure the two N900's are in sync.04:52
deltah ok thanks for the heads-up04:52
kwtmI would use duct tape to tape it to my head since it can get tiring holding up the two N900's.04:52
GeneralAntilles3D is only good in a movie theater.04:53
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GeneralAntillesThe tech sucks too much for it to be non-stressful in home usage.04:53
johnxGeneralAntilles, I don't have stereoscopic vision and I already have bulky glasses, so I get to pay extra to wear uncomfortable glasses04:53
kwtmjohnx: Lasik?04:53
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johnxdetached retina a while ago04:53
GeneralAntillesjohnx, oh really?04:53
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johnxit's like totally not a big deal, *except* 3D movies04:54
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delthum, ok now to get rid of this ridiculous vfat partition and use that as a root fs.....04:54
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deltkernel supports ext2/3fs?04:54
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johnxas a module04:55
delt(the default one in latest os2008)04:55
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deltthe purpose of that being, other than NOT being able to use an ext3 root fs??04:55
deltand saving like 4kb of kernel space04:55
johnxis it really 4K? I think you made that number up ;)04:56
deltno, the number 4096 existed before04:56
delti just pulled it out of my ass as the size of the ext2/3 driver =)04:56
johnxanyways, it doesn't matter. it's on the initrd anyways04:56
deltoh ok04:57
johnxthere are a couple good tutorials on booting from SD04:57
deltso it CAN use an ext3 root filesystem04:57
johnxthere's a script that does it for you04:57
johnxcan't remember what it's called04:57
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deltoh, i would like to take a look at it04:58
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deltbouncing baby boioioiooiiiiing04:58
deltkick him see if he bounces again :D04:59
deltquestion: n810 working normally, but plugged to USB, does it still use up the battery?05:00
johnxit doesn't charge over USB, if that's what you're asking05:00
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deltyeah, determined that yesterday. btw this is completely retarded, but moderately amusing
johnxheh. yeah. saw that a bit ago :)05:02
kwtmjohnx: Detached retina probably no big deal because you have another one, but that one has now become ULTRA precious.  Take care!05:02
johnxkwtm, I do. and I'm totally paranoid about it too05:02
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deltjohnx: what happened to your eye?05:03
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kwtmDOn't blame you for no lasik.  Just curious --answering is optional: detached retina just because of the way you are, or something happened (injury, external illness)?05:03
johnxdelt, retina detached. kwtm happens more often to people who are extremely nearsighted05:03
deltunknown command line option --answering-is-optional05:03
johnxit's because of the shape of the eye05:04
deltkwtm.. isnt that kwtm's nick?05:04
kwtmHey, how did you know that kwtm's nick was kwtm?05:04
johnxas far as I can tell, it "just happened", though maybe I got hit in the head the day or so before I noticed it05:04
kwtmOh, I see what you're saing.  That phrase was addressed to me, delt.05:04
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deltkwtm: because whoever it is, it matches his/her/its nick.05:05
deltah ok05:05
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kwtmSo, johnx, family Hx of glaucoma, I'm guessing?05:05
deltthought like, hit autocomplete key by mistake or something05:05
johnxkwtm, nope, AFAIK05:05
johnxburned up too much luck :)05:06
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johnxdelt, I think this might be the most recent release of the 'clone rootfs to sd card' script:
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deltthanks noted05:08
johnxoh, and backup before you run that script :)05:09
johnxthere is a non-zero chance that something can go wrong05:10
deltwhat's on the 2gb internal flash of the n810 by default (factory shipping)05:11
johnxsome sample files05:11
johnxbut it's where user files get saved mostly05:11
deltoh johnx 22:09 < delt> thanks noted05:11
johnxmaps get put there as well05:12
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deltdunno if you caught that before quit05:12
johnxgot back just in time for it05:12
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deltoh, swap is mostly a file on the 2gb vfat partition?05:13
infobotdelt meant: oh, swap is normally a file on the 2gb vfat partition?05:13
johnx(I spend so much time in the console that ctrl+w means ;backspace a word' in my head not 'close a tab/window')05:13
deltok, what if i decide to split that in 3..... a 256mb swap, a 64mb windows partition, and the rest an ext3fs05:14
deltthen use that as root fs05:14
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johnxthen there isn't a script for you and you have to write your bootmenu file manually05:15
deltwhich is what i normally do, but i'm not as familiar with this hardware.05:15
johnxit's the boot process mostly that's weird05:15
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deltanyway, taking a good look at the script you linked above, thanks btw05:16
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delt"There are internal (mmcblk0) and external (mmcblk1)" so this is specific to the 810?05:17
johnxthe N800 has two SD card *slots* instead of a soldered-on sd chip and a miniSD slot05:18
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deltyeah, and they kept the same device names on the n810, first "slot" being the internal chip05:19
deltso, time to install sshd and do some reading.....05:19
johnxthey also kept the same SoC, and most of the same board05:19
deltSoC == System On Chip?05:20
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deltfm radio would have been nice, but :) so would star trek voyager technology heh05:21
nox-ah thats only in n900?05:21
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nox-(fm radio)05:21
deltok, be back later to report failure.05:22
deltuh, or sucksess.05:22
johnxnox-, N800 and N900 :)05:22
nox-but not 810?05:22
johnxbut only N900 got that awesome FM transmitter05:23
* nox- not even tested that one yet, does it sound alright?05:23
johnxyup, if it's close to the radio antenna and you have a good 'empty' station to broadcast over and you point the N900 the 'right' direction05:24
johnxwhich is to say, for me it works great. other people don't always have the best luck it seems05:24
nox-audio quality is good too?05:25
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johnxfor FM radio *shrugs*05:25
nox-well some ppl have fancy car stereos etc...05:25
johnxmy tape deck doesn't even work05:26
johnxI waited long enough that I have two pieces of tech that work perfectly together :D05:26
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kwtmjohnx: This is before or after "apt-get install fm-boost"?05:34
johnxI did do the thing to prevent it from cutting off the FM transmitter when something (like a charger) is plugged in, but it appears they did that for good reason :)05:35
johnxcharging while it's FM broadcasting does seem to interfere with the FM signal (static and such)05:35
kwtmIt's a bit unusual --FM usually captures well, so that a signal of strength 5 from a medium-distance source will be easily overpowered by a signal of strength 5.2 from a closer source.  It's not fade-in / fade-out like AM.05:36
kwtmWhat about the infrared, speaking of peripheral connections?  I can't seem to get my ir to work, but I can't confirm whether it's software or hardware or my IR lens is just dirty.05:37
deltfm broadcasting?05:37
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johnxdelt, yeah. well fm "transmitter"05:38
kwtmn900 has a FM transmitter.  Did you not know?05:38
johnxbroad is a bit generous in this case05:38
deltjohnx: sounds any good at like, a few meters range?05:38
johnxsounds good from maybe 1.5 - 2m05:38
microlithkwtm: what about the IR is giving you trouble?05:38
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johnxas long as the N900 is parallel to the antenna05:38
deltah. bronadcasts in stereo?05:39
johnxkwtm, do you have a camera you can aim at the IR transmitter to see the light?05:39
johnxdelt, i think so05:39
kwtmInstalled "PyKake" which failed to control my Canon SLR camera.  Now I need some other way to test to see where it failed.05:39
deltonly thing missing then would be a line-in other than mic ("other" t/r/s/other socket)05:39
kwtmjohnx: I have a Canon XTi, but how can I see the light?  Is it supposed to show up on some indicator?05:39
kwtmdelt: Why do you need something other than mic? COuldn't you just hook up whatever it is (e.g. tape player audio out) to the mic in line?05:40
johnxkwtm, unless your camera is really well filtered, you should be able to point it at the IR transmitter and look through the viewfinder and see a light05:40
kwtmAlthough I think the mic in is mono.05:40
kwtmjohnx: What do you mean?  The IR led is visible to the naked eye?05:41
deltheh, turns out this script does exactly that 22:15 < delt> ok, what if i decide to split that in 3..... a 256mb swap, a 64mb windows partition, and the rest an ext3fs05:41
johnxkwtm, visible to your camera :)05:41
johnxdelt, ah, cool :) never ran it on an N810 ...05:42
johnxkwtm, err, sorry, not viewfinder in your case. I mean the LCD preview thing05:43
kwtmOhhhhh!!!  I have a real SLR.  It doesn't have a "LCD preview" thing.05:43
johnxno video mode?05:44
kwtmWill it show up on a camera for which the IR remote was not intended?05:44
johnxyeah, it's just a function of the camera's CCD being sensitive to infrared05:44
kwtmNo video mode.  When I said "real SLR" I meant "real (cheap) SLR".05:44
kwtmThat's great!  I have a digital camera on .. my .... Nokia ........ N900 ................ um, never mind.05:45
kwtmOkay, I'05:45
johnxmirror :)05:45
johnxmaybe two mirrors05:45
kwtmOkay, I'll use my Canon Powershot SD1100.  (Hey, Canon, do I get some $$ for product placement?)05:45
johnxI actually liked the super cut down XTi. Didn't have one but I think that's what my sister has.05:46
deltjust wondering, how come osso-xterm doesn't obey $DISPLAY env.variable or -display on command line?05:46
johnxdelt, lots of maemo apps from Nokia don't :)05:47
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johnxit's just trying to fit in05:47
deltlike, to have a term window running from the tablet, but usable on this (pc) screen+keyboard05:47
johnxuse VNC for that I guess05:47
johnxdunno if there's a better option05:47
deltis there a vncserver for maemo?05:48
delti know there's a vncviewer, which is cool05:48
deltand very practical05:48
johnxI think it's in extras05:48
deltthere is a server too?05:48
johnxyes. I think so05:49
johnxI think it's in Extras05:49
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deltand ssh/sshd is also on my to-install list05:49
* lcuk makes note that sleep is impossible after whiskey consumption05:49
johnxsleep is for the weak05:52
deltoh *duh* maemo-extras was disabled, thats why it was greyed out earlier and not showing up in red when the repo was down05:52
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kwtmjohnx: Agree that sleep is for the weak.  And I am weak about 8 hours a day.05:53
johnxsometimes I wish my body felt like sleeping at a normal enough time that I could get 8 hours :)05:54
johnxbut it's fun to hang out the the guys in EU when they wake up05:55
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deltthe application manager should show me the contents of all catalogs in tools -> "application catalog" right?05:55
deltor do i need to choose one or another?05:56
johnxit shows you some of the contents of all of them05:56
johnxonly packages in a certain category show up in the GUI app manager05:56
johnxall of them are available from apt-get though05:56
deltwhen i got it it had stuff preinstalled, and the app manager showed me tons more05:57
johnxmight have had extras-devel on there as well05:58
johnxstart with extras though ;)05:58
deltwish i could have backed up that too, but there is apparently no way to mount the 256mb useless-root-fs over usb05:58
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franz_quick question, where are those battery graphics from:
deltdude, this is ludicrous. "ALL" shows me exactly 12 items05:59
franz_I thought it was black plastic, but they look slightly different05:59
lcukfranz_, ask the owner of the picture06:00
lcukdelt, what warings/errors does it show06:00
lcukit does sound like you have one or other repository faults06:00
deltnone, at least not in the ui's main window06:00
lcukthats kinda helpful to yourself06:00
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lcukfyi, the internal "backup" tool actually backs up both repositories and packages installed lists06:01
johnxmenu -> tools -> log06:01
lcukwhats in the repositories list though menu -> application catalogues06:02
deltyeah, but the device was bricked. somehow with r&d mode enabled the 2gb partition showed up as the SECOND partition over usb, and now fresh install it shows up as first partition.06:02
johnxlcuk, keep in mind. this is an N81006:02
lcukjohnx, ahh06:03
deltah, shows "failed to refresh" on maemo-extras06:03
deltwith a red X at the left06:03
lcukshould give an error code (404 403 etc)06:03
johnxso now look at the log06:03
johnxtools -> log06:03
lcuki believe the error is listed there06:03
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deltW: GPG error (i assume W for Warning?)06:04
johnxyeah. that's expected06:04
johnxrun check for updates again06:05
johnxand hit the refresh icon at the bottom right06:05
deltE: failed to fetch Sub-process gzip returned an error code06:05
deltextras repo is back up? (seeing the notice from earlier in the topic got removed)06:06
lcukcheck that06:06
lcukthats live now06:06
lcukit just popped on vaispy06:06
lcuksounds like m.o is having issues perhaps06:07
deltcheck for updates, refresh, no go :/06:08
deltstill shows extras as disabled.06:08
deltwith that item selected, i get the error (same one from the logs) twice under it06:10
johnxunrelated: has anyone else noticed that the N800 just felt better in the hand than the N810 or N900 does?06:10
johnxand I have my answer :)06:11
luke-jr_N810 was certainly better than N90006:12
deltnever held a n800 or a n900 so dunno06:12
lcukn810 had one massive major horrid problem i had to build a whole cradle for06:12
deltcertainly bulkier than an ipod nano or sandisk e2x006:12
lcukit was impossible to almost fall asleep at night and hold/move pages nicely06:12
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deltlcuk: what do you mean by hold/move pages while falling asleep?06:16
lcukdelt, i read a lot06:16
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deltok... so what is "holding" a page?06:17
lcukwith my old pocket loox machine, i could grasp device in my knuckle and fall asleep whilst turning pages using its real buttons06:17
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MrPPShey, has anyone else had trouble with the extras repository in the last 12 or so hours?06:17
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lcuk   << MrPPS06:17
johnxheh. perfect time to reflash my N800 :|06:17
deltwas in the topic earlier today, and now my tablet cant access it06:18
deltwhich sucks because i would very much have a sshd server on it, and a vnc viewer(+ server if there is one) would be quite welcome as well06:19
delts/very much/very much like to/06:19
lcukdelt, it has all (inc server)06:19
infobotdelt meant: which sucks because i would very much like to have a sshd server on it, and a vnc viewer(+ server if there is one) would be quite welcome as well06:19
MrPPSfair enough - so no fix yet?06:19
* lcuk has another cig then liws back down06:19
deltlcuk: sh (xterm) tells me "not found" for ssh and sshd06:20
delt16gb mini sd card is on my to-buy-soon list.....06:21
MrPPSah, so its part of the upgrade06:21
lcukdelt, you are having repository issues06:21
lcukis the metpackage06:21
lcukinstalling both client and server06:22
MrPPSso if update manager wont let you edit the repository dist, how do we update to 1.3?06:22
deltlcuk: in other words, apt-get openssh?06:22
deltwithout the ? duh06:22
lcukin a generic sense, do not worry about the repository list06:22
lcuknobody needed to change it from fremantle to fremantle1.2 did they :P06:22
johnxdelt, apt-get install openssh06:23
MrPPSmine just installed that way :P06:23
johnxbut it will show up in the list of packages06:23
MrPPShow should i edit it back to fremantle06:23
deltah thanks =) been a while since i used debian-like package managers06:23
lcukMrPPS, you dont need to06:23
* lcuk melts his brain and goes to sleep06:24
MrPPSlcuk: if its currently set to 1.2, will 1.2 be symlinked to 1.3 then?06:24
delt*sigh* what if i make a COPY of busybox $ cp busybox su && chmod +s su06:25
johnxMrPPS, if you didn't muck with the manually, everything will be taken care of. if you did muck with it, change it back to whatever it was before06:25
delts/$ /$ cd \/bin && /06:25
johnxdelt, what are you trying to do?06:25
deltsu root06:26
deltbut a symlink to busybox can't be +s06:26
deltand im not particularly fond of hardlinks, even for regular files06:26
johnxso, if what you're suggesting actually works, wouldn't that let anyone with shell access on any linux get root? :)06:27
deltoh, editing the /etc/sudo* files appropriately of course06:27
deltwhat was the name of that "gainroot" package?06:28
deltthx. fortunately right now the tablet is still in r+d mode, so it "should" work or so i've read06:29
johnxah, right :)06:29
johnxforgot about that06:29
delthmm, says "E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)06:30
MrPPSjohnx: i didn't "muck" with it manually, but i did add the extras repo's manually after purchasing the phone06:31
johnxdelt, are you root?06:31
MrPPSi followed instructions on the website, adding fremantle-1.2 as the dist, and free non-free as the options06:31
johnxdo you have package manager open?06:31
deltwell, in that xterm yeah06:31
deltoooh *duh*06:31
johnxMrPPS, if it's fremantle-1.2 right now I think you can just change it to fremantle and everything should be fine06:32
MrPPSalright, thanks06:32
johnxbut wasn't extras included by default, just disabled?06:32
deltnope, closed app. manager and same error06:32
johnxdelt: ps aux | grep apt06:32
johnxsee if app manager left something behind06:32
deltyeah, i just enabled it (after fresh re-flash) and it was disabled06:32
deltenabled it, now it seems to not-work just fine06:33
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deltgaaaah where is the | on that keyboard :/06:33
delti figured out pressing the "chr" button (btw, is there any way to configure those extra characters?)06:34
johnxadd it to the shortcut bar on your xterm06:34
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delttried that on my old install, character "bar" ... didnt work06:35
deltwith an uppercase or lowercase B... i think i tried both06:35
johnxwhat about pipe?06:35
johnxsee what it's called on your linux desktop06:36
deltfirst thing that came to mind, didnt work either ... but dont remember if i tried both Pipe and pipe06:36
johnxxev and hit the | key06:36
delt"bar" in lowercase06:37
deltshould be the same in maemo right?06:37
delteven though it's a heavily modified X1106:37
delts/it's/it looks like/06:37
infobotdelt meant: even though it looks like a heavily modified X1106:37
johnxyeah, I think06:38
deltaha, process "/usr/libexec/apt-worker", root, SWN06:39
deltkillall apt-worker killed it, no need for kill -906:40
deltreading package lists.... (quickly showed % then "Done")06:41
deltBuilding dependency tree, Reading state information... Done06:41
johnxwe're ok without the details unless there's a problem :)06:41
deltE: Couldn't find package rootfs06:41
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delt*FACEPALM* can you send me a baseball bat, sledge hammer or something, that would do my head some good06:42
deltreally, excuse me but this is not excusable.06:43
deltsame with rootsh, E: cant find package rootsh06:43
johnxah, well maybe I was wrong on that one06:44
* johnx checks06:44
deltsame with
johnxapt-get update06:45
johnxI still think extras never properly refreshed06:45
deltoh, i need a local list of packages...?06:45
deltwhat about 23:42 < delt> reading package lists.... (quickly showed % then "Done")06:45
johnxit was reading the local package lists into RAM06:46
johnxactually, the apt-worker you killed might have been doing that update ...06:46
delterrors about extras again.... then at the end E: some index files failed to download, blahblah06:47
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johnxwhat's the error it says?06:47
johnx404? 403? timeout? failed to resolve?06:48
deltuh 2sec, changing xterm to a smaller font because this is ridiculous06:50
deltand white/grey on black background instead of white background... this is aggressing my eyes06:50
deltwish i still had that "droid" font... was perfect for xterm on that screen06:51
delts/font/font pack/06:51
infobotdelt meant: wish i still had that "droid" font pack... was perfect for xterm on that screen06:51
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delthey, the internal 2gb chip isnt even mounted!!06:54
deltwas gonna do apt-whatever | tee some file on there and stick it from the usb drive to my web directory, .... ??06:54
johnxis the N810 plugged into your PC?06:55
deltyeah, usb cable06:55
deltand r+d mode is on06:55
johnxcan't have the same FS mounted in two places ;)06:55
delti agree with that, but its not mounted on the pc06:55
johnxbut the N810 can't know that06:56
johnxunplug the USB cable and the N810 will remount it06:56
deltso there's an auto-mount-unmounter, that checks for usb connection...?06:56
deltah ok06:56
deltoh btw, battery meter is still full..... any cmdline to show percentage of charge?06:56
johnxthink there's an app that does06:57
johnxor a dbus request or something06:57
deltbeen what, 2 hours running and plugged on the usb?06:57
deltanyway, ill check that later06:57
deltah, there it is.06:58
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deltjust wondering, what if mmc2 is busy and i plug the usb cable?07:02
deltit just doesnt show up as a storage device?07:03
johnxand your N810 will pop-up some type of warning/error/complaint/plea for help07:03
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kwtmwait, the infobot will actually obey vi commands??07:05
infobotkwtm meant: Wait, the infobot will actually obey vi commands??07:06
infobotkwtm meant: wait, the Infobot will actually obey vi commands??07:06
infobotkwtm meant: waIt, the Infobot wIll actually obey vI commands??07:06
delts/a/A/ -e /b/B/ -e c/C/07:06
delt-e s/a/A/ -e /b/B/ -e c/C/07:07
johnxit understands s/a/b/ and s/a/b/g07:07
kwtmI think I have to be the last one who spoke.07:08
infobotkwtm meant: i think I have to be the last one who spoke.07:08
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kwtmOkay, so no wildcards.07:08
johnxdelt, yeah. try to grab that file on your desktop and see if it's a valid gzip file07:09
deltum, dont see any link to a .gz file?07:12
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johnxdelt, line beginning: "Failed to fetch ... "07:13
johnxin your apt-get.out.txt07:13
deltduh *facedoublepalm*07:13
delt<--- stiupd and witardid ):-07:13
johnxno worries07:14
delt[pts/8][user@deimos]:~/n810/apt-get$ wget
deltLength: 1602 (1.6K) [text/html]07:15
deltSaving to: `Packages.gz'07:15
delt[pts/8][user@deimos]:~/n810/apt-get$ file Packages.gz07:15
deltPackages.gz: ASCII text, with CRLF, LF line terminators07:15
johnxyeah, about what i thought07:15
delthtml code07:15
johnxso the repo is borked for some people, including you07:15
johnxit happens from time to time07:15
johnxthe whole thing is on akamai and falls apart in a light breeze07:15
deltso the problem is on the server's side?07:16
deltsame problem as the maemo-extras repo?07:17
johnxthat is the maemo extras repo07:17
rohanpmthe topic explains that extras is broken07:18
johnxanyways, got to go for a bit07:18
deltuh. i think i better get a brain transplant asafp07:18
johnx'later all07:18
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kwtmHow do we get the topic?07:18
kwtmYou mean the repo server is broken?  Wow. :(07:18
deltdepends on your irc program?07:18
befordtry /topic07:18
delti just mapped ctrl+t to run /topic *DUUUH*07:19
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deltTune in to ktwm for the best maemo-extras in town! That is, if your tablet has an FM tuner!07:21
deltTune in to kwtm for the best maemo-extras in town! That is, if your tablet has an FM tuner!07:21
deltsry i acnt spel07:22
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deltmkay.... so gonna check again tomorrow, i think it's sleep time for me07:25
deltgood night all07:26
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CreamyGhmmm you guys should look at this:
CreamyGdouchebags at sony suing everyone, they named psfreedom too07:27
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slonopotamus1. take n8x0. 2. disable wifi energy savings. 3. connect to wifi. 4. wait until battery is discharged. 5. put it on charger. 6. go to sleep (~8h) 7. suddenly discover that your tablet is only 50% charged08:01
slonopotamusi have only one question. what the fuck?08:02
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Stskeepsit doesn't just switch to AC mode you know08:03
slonopotamusStskeeps: i don't care what it does or not. i put it on charger and expect it to fe fully (okay, or almost fully) charged after it sit on it for 8 hours08:05
Stskeeps:nod: but if you use more energy than you put into it..08:05
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slonopotamusthen it wouldn't charge at all.08:06
slonopotamusbut it did and indicator showed it isn't charging when i woke up.08:06
RST38hStskeeps: I am not sure the using-more-energy case ever happens with the dedicated wall charger.08:07
RST38hStskeeps: as it does not limit the current08:08
slonopotamusidle wifi without energy savings kills battery in less than 8 hours. 4-6 afair.08:08
Stskeepsslonopotamus: go talk to bme and ask on various data to explore the problem08:08
RST38hslonopotamus: You woke up, and it was not charging from the power supply?08:08
RST38hslonopotamus: Happened to me several times lately.08:09
slonopotamusRST38h: yep. though it was plugged in08:09
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ShadowJKwas it glowing blue or shining green or glowing green?08:14
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slonopotamusit was grey n80008:16
ShadowJKoh, n80008:16
ShadowJKwell then, was the d-pad steady blue or blinking blue fast or blinking blue slow?08:16
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ShadowJKAnd did you unplug charger before you observed battery icon at 50%08:17
slonopotamusd-pad stays off when charging08:18
slonopotamustray icon said it isn't.08:18
slonopotamusit was 50% both with and without charger08:18
slonopotamusand don't tell me about broken charger cable.08:19
ShadowJKmine doesn't stay off when charging08:19
slonopotamusconfigurable in settings afaik08:20
RST38hslonopotamus: I suspect this happens when you lock it too fast after plugging it in08:20
RST38hslonopotamus: this is the only idea I have got about the problem =(08:21
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ShadowJKhas it happened before?08:22
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* ShadowJK has never had it happen on his n80008:23
* RST38h actually has it happen on his n90008:23
slonopotamusRST38h: "lock it too fast" - ???08:23
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ShadowJKexcept when charging with a non-nokia charger that puts out too much current sometimes08:23
RST38hslonopotamus: there is a lock switch at the right side08:23
slonopotamusRST38h: how it affects charging?08:24
RST38hslonopotamus: when you toggle it right when plugging in the charger, n900 sometimes does not go into chargin mode08:24
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slonopotamusit was n800, damnit. next.08:24
slonopotamusif it didn't charge, it wouldn't survive 8 hours with disabled wifi energy savings08:25
slonopotamusso it did charge and then stopped08:25
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* ShadowJK was going to guess it went to full and tripped on battery overvoltage during pwm switch on cycle or on dc adapter overcurrent :-)08:27
ShadowJKthough typically it just goes into reboot loop when the former happens :)08:28
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ShadowJKthe battery icon used to hang for me alot, and get stuck not updating08:29
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ShadowJKno tooltip/info when tapping it was sure sign08:29
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quanttromhm, is there anybody here using the "Faster Application Manager" App?08:30
slonopotamusit is advanced power applet and it didn't hang08:30
quanttromv0.6.5 ?08:30
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slonopotamusShadowJK: whatever, you can try to reproduce :)08:31
ShadowJKhm, what data source does that thing use?08:31
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slonopotamusbtw, is there smth like batterygraph for diablo?08:34
slonopotamusShadowJK: i used plain nokia wall charger08:34
ShadowJKWell it either didn't trigger recharge again after reaching full (sw prob), or it correctly popped up a "Not Charging" dialog while you were away due to some now unknown factor :)08:34
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slonopotamusi can try that again08:35
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ShadowJKnot that it actually tells you why it's not charging08:35
ShadowJKhiding information from users is userfriendly, remember08:36
slonopotamusi was away because i don't have a habit of watching how my devices charge, you know. especially when i sleep08:36
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slonopotamuswell, recharging is easy to check, one just needs to take fully charged tablet (still connected to charger) and start intensive battery drain08:38
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slonopotamus100% cpu usage drains whole battery in just 2 hours :)08:39
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ShadowJKwell also tap the battery icon when it gets full, if it recommnds you unplg charger to save electricity you know it hasn't yet tripped at that point08:40
slonopotamusokay, new topic. anyone knows what software dims screen in maemo?08:41
slonopotamusand turns it off08:41
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slonopotamus says i uploaded package to fremantle sdk :)08:44
ShadowJKis that 100% cpu AND wifi without psm? screen off or on and at what brightness? :)08:46
slonopotamus2h is just 100% cpu, everything else off08:46
slonopotamus(i compile on it sometimes :P)08:47
ShadowJKwhen it start rebootng when you plug in charger, replace battery08:47
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kwtmAnyone have URL of that web page again with all the useful dbus signals like how to switch to silent profile, how to send an SMS by dbus, etc.?09:34
mecewow.. ctrl-jmk<space>l fascinates me...09:35
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CorsacJebba has a nice page about that09:36
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mecesoo.. What's up with extras today?09:59
johnxup and down10:00
* johnx bets on akamai problems10:00
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Stskeepsmy bet is on x-fade on vacation10:01
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povbot`Bug 11348: Extras repository fails to refresh10:08
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smoophHi I have a technical question ... I know there is phones with 2 sim-cards ... I acctually don't know how they work but I would like to know if it would be possible to use the n900 with another sim-card. I am thinking a of virtual image of the other sim as a device. This would probably have some narly possibilities as to having a sim for different providers which offer free calls to their network10:15
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pigeonis there any advantage or disadvantage of using the maemo sdk+ instead of the one from nokia?10:48
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vltRis extras repo working right now? still getting error when refreshing :/10:50
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DocScrutinizer2nslu2-log: ?11:54
DocScrutinizer2nslu2-log: info11:54
DocScrutinizer2nslu2-log: help11:54
DocScrutinizer2nslu2-log: status11:54
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DocScrutinizer2povbot`: ?11:55
povbot`DocScrutinizer2: Error: "?" is not a valid command.11:55
DocScrutinizer2povbot`: info11:56
povbot`DocScrutinizer2: Error: "info" is not a valid command.11:56
Stskeepspovbot takes care of the normal logging11:56
DocScrutinizer2povbot`: help11:56
povbot`DocScrutinizer2: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.11:56
johnx~lart major software devs for not agreeing what ctrl+w means11:56
* infobot executes killall -KILL major software devs for not agreeing what ctrl+w means11:56
DocScrutinizer2Stskeeps: checking robots for correct info about their site and master11:56
infobotjohnx: aw, gee11:56
DocScrutinizer2Stskeeps: just not kicking povbot and nslu as I *know* them11:57
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DocScrutinizer2temp: what's up with your nick and registration?12:01
merlin1991damn you johnx, I tried what ctrl + w is in xchat D12:01
johnxwhy do you think I left and came back like 3 times12:01
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johnxctrl+w is 'delete word' in bash, and firefox on mac, it's switch window in vim, and close window in most linux stuff12:02
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DocScrutinizer2delete word(s) is easy with ctr-shift-left - then bs12:05
johnxI try to stay off the cursor keys12:05
DocScrutinizer2why that?12:06
johnxhave to move off the home row12:06
DocScrutinizer2for ctrl-shift-left you actually have to do by far nastier things12:06
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johnxerrr, ctrl-shift isn't too bad12:07
DocScrutinizer2esp on N90012:07
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johnxheh. well there's that :)12:08
johnxI don't spend all day typing on my N900 (blessedly)12:08
DocScrutinizer2I wouldn't have expected you're concerned about homerow on N900, though it took a while till I realized that12:09
* johnx gets back to micro-optimizing his thumb typing, and practicing DVORAK on his N90012:09
DocScrutinizer2duh :-O12:10
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DocScrutinizer2I still hit 'm' instead ' ' on N900, as my thumbs haven't yet forgotten the N810. Switching to dvorak - can't imagine12:14
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johnxI still miss the Zaurus 5500's layout ...12:15
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johnxalso: we've taken waaaay too long circling back from Trolltech/Qtopia on the Zaurus to Nokia-Trolltech/Qt on Meego12:16
johnxfeels like we could have done less than half of the API breaks12:17
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DocScrutinizersmooph: SIM access is direct hw interface from modem to card holder. There's few you can do from linux domain12:26
smoophDocScrutinizer: I thought so, I wonder why ;)12:27
DocScrutinizerbecause this is a Nokia device and not Openmoko GTA04 ;-P12:28
DocScrutinizerFor GTA04 I designed 6 'eavesdropping' GPIO from SoC to SIM holder. This would've allowed to do such things you think of12:29
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DocScrutinizersmooph: but for emulating / cloning a SIM you first have to read out the secret crypto key from a valid SIM, and that's not simple or even impossible nowadays with contemporary SIM hw12:32
smoophyeah I just thought it be really nice ... to have something like carrier specific contacts ... call jim(tmobile) with your tmobile sim = charge 0$ ... call judy (vodafone) with voda sim ... and so on12:34
DocScrutinizeryou regularly need multi-SIM hardware to do this12:35
DocScrutinizerSIMs can't be copied or emulated (short story)12:36
smoophyeah I just thought ... anything can be cloned whatever the encryption might be12:37
smoophwell just an idea12:37
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DocScrutinizersmooph: SIM isn't a simple (maybe encrypted) data storage, it's a processor that's answering a challenge-response authentication scheme. This isn't easily cloneable12:41
DocScrutinizeryou usually can not read out the cryptographic key that's used to generate the response form challenge12:42
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crashanddie"What happens in the smartcard, stays in the smartcard"13:01
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DocScrutinizerexcept RF emissions and power line modulations :-P13:04
crashanddiedocscrutinizer: have you seen the latest GnD smartcard which uses an optocoupler for data transfer so that there is no leak?13:06
DocScrutinizerthey hacked the 'old' SIMs by closely observing power consumption and timing of response, and - using this info together with known details of hw and algo implementation - deduced the key from that, iirc13:07
crashanddieit can also use a small built-in battery which provides up to 20 seconds of power so that the smartcard can do computations without being influenced13:07
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: heh, no didn't realize yet13:08
crashanddiedon't know if this is public data yet so shouldn't talk about it.13:08
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DocScrutinizerGnD == Gaerke & Devrient ?13:09
crashanddieGiesecke and Devrient?13:10
crashanddieI still have one of their microSD smartcards13:10
DocScrutinizersomething yeah13:10
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crashanddiepretty cool stuff, working on getting a browser on Android to use the certs on the card for SSLv313:10
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crashanddiefor a long time, I wanted to work something out so that I could use bluetooth to unlock a computer, just by presenting my phone to it13:11
crashanddieand thus using the certificates for session unlock, but I just never had the time to write a bluetooth-to-sc bridge13:12
crashanddie(on the windows side)13:12
crashanddietoo many ideas, not enough time...13:13
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: now go figure - new german ID has 'smartcard' built in for auth over IT, but they missed the obvious chance to have a printed capacitive numeric keyboard on device (= ID card) to enter the PIN in a safe way13:14
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tobis87DocScrutinizer: Are there already photo's availible of zapped ID cards? I heard you can use the microwave to break the rfid chip.13:18
DocScrutinizerso every single terminal where you use that ID to authenticate yourself can keylog the PIN for every ID card used there13:18
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DocScrutinizertobis87: sure you can, bt why would you do that?13:18
DocScrutinizeryou have to pay a fsckng $$ on top of a ID card without that function13:19
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crashanddiedocscrutinizer it's the main issue with smartcards at the moment, you have to trust the terminal to be perfectly safe. The day there is a worm that goes on those terminals and logs PIN codes the whole industry is going to go down like a stack of cards13:22
tobis87DocScrutinizer: Well, I don't like the idea to carry a chip with me, which can get activated remotely with my fingerprints on them, at least on the passport I think fingerprints are stored.13:22
crashanddieor at least be seriously hurt. For a long time I've been pushing my old company's CTO to invest in a card that could do the whole PIN challenging on-board rather than on-terminal.13:22
DocScrutinizertobis87: that's a completely different story13:23
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DocScrutinizerstorage of biometric parameters on ID cards and passports has nothing to do with the authentication you can get now for new ID cards13:24
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: on board means have MMI on the card, no?13:25
DocScrutinizeras I assume the actual calculation of auth algo is done on board anyway13:25
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crashanddiegoing for food13:27
DocScrutinizer(hmm, a capacitive 1Mpixel fingerprint scanner also should be easily implementable on a smartcard)13:27
DocScrutinizerMan Machine Interface13:28
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DocScrutinizerfor a display e-ink is the technology of choice I guess13:29
lcukDocScrutinizer, are you talking about fleshlight again?13:30
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: definitely err... probably not. What's fleshlight13:30
lcukahem, a man machine interface13:31
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DocScrutinizeryou can call it HID if you like that better than MMI13:32
DocScrutinizerlcuk: we're talking about smartcards - what they are now, and what they *should* be like13:33
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: enetering PIN (or any other means of user authenticating to the smartcard) should not rely on the terminal hw - even less it should need special software on a ISA PC13:35
* RST38h suggests Hardware User Interface13:36
DocScrutinizeror *any* sw for that behalf13:36
DocScrutinizerRST38h: read backscroll13:36
DocScrutinizerprinted capacitive numeric kbd is pretty simple to implement on a smartcard13:37
RST38hDoc: Definitely Hardware User Interface,13:37
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RST38hsmartcards that accept user input already exist though, I have seen them in the news13:37
* DocScrutinizer pondering about accoustic feedback from card, using piezo effects in the card itself13:38
DocScrutinizerdamn, another 3 patents spoiled :-P13:39
tobis87Why do we need a new authentication method with the ID anyway? There are already machine readable characters on the front which could get used for authentication. The whole idea seems to me as useless as the new eBrief.13:39
DocScrutinizerprobably I'd be rich if I would visit a lawyer instead of IRCing all day XP13:39
meceStskeeps, so no more prebuilt images for meego on N900?13:40
DocScrutinizertobis87: authetication != identification13:40
Stskeepsmece: now :)13:40
DocScrutinizer!= readout of a few data from a piece of plastic13:40
Stskeepsmece: prebuilt images go on, just not from tablets-dev as we don't need no pesky EULA13:40
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meceStskeeps, aaah now I found it. I was browsing around but couldn't find the images at first.13:45
FIQ|n900o hai linux guys, any idea of a pretty lightweight but still usable linux distro for portable using? (placing on a usb stick)13:47
jacekowskimake your own(tm)13:47
FIQ|n900Ah, the greatest of them all!13:47
FIQ|n900but seriously, my linux experience is too small for it13:48
jacekowskii have gentoo based distro on my 2G sony microvault13:48
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FIQ|n900hm, ok13:48
jacekowskimicro vault tiny*13:48
meceStill, I think I'll wait for xterm and browser to work. :)13:48
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JaffaStskeeps: Today is release day, correct?13:49
DocScrutinizerDamnSmallLinux (some 50MB)13:49
StskeepsJaffa: yes, it's on repo.meego.com13:50
FIQ|n900Yeah, though about that13:50
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JaffaStskeeps: Did I miss the release announcement, or has it not gone out yet?13:50
StskeepsJaffa: it usually comes day after when QA has verified13:50
JaffaStskeeps: Ah, cool13:51
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StskeepsJaffa: and this is like rc1 or something..13:51
FIQ|n900But i've heard that it isn't a nice distro for using, it's something you just use to got some power from small machines13:51
FIQ|n900Or will it actually be customizeable without installing tons of libs?13:51
JaffaStskeeps: So is this week's?13:51
StskeepsJaffa: think so13:51
JaffaStskeeps: Cool, thanks13:51
FIQ|n900Still, 50MB for a DE, some usable applications, is pretty good13:52
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: if you have a stick >=2GB, you're probably free to install whatever desktop distro you like. Or have a look at Knoppix13:52
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FIQ|n900Well, i've a 16GB used for N900, but i will preferally use a card that is 1GB13:52
FIQ|n900so yea..13:52
JaffaStskeeps: The comment about "we might remove email from 1.1" was a little worrying in terms of dogfooding :-/13:53
FIQ|n900I could go and buy an USB stick, but still13:53
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JaffaStskeeps: Does this include the modem code?13:54
tobis87FIQ|n900: Distro for the desktop or the n900?13:54
StskeepsJaffa: yes13:54
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FIQ|n900tobis87: desktop but portable13:55
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sivangStskeeps: almost done with backing up, reflashin so I will hopefull be able to start testing the image mysefl as well :) Expect bugs13:55
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FIQ|n900er, -a13:55
tobis87FIQ|n900: TinyMe is a nice distro, it copies the whole image to ram (copy2ram)13:56
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lardmanmorning chaps13:56
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DocScrutinizerlo lardman13:56
lardmanhey Doc13:57
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lardmanI was browsing the news page, and saw this:
lardmanany thoughts as to how it works?13:57
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lardmanonly one transmitter apparently, and using either WiFi or BT (at least no new hw needed and in the 2.4GHz range)13:58
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lardmanhi Qhubekela13:58
Qhubekelai just got here from the Maemo wiki13:59
merlin1991lucky for you you didn't say I just got here from tmo ;)13:59
JaffaStskeeps: Exciting13:59
DuckbootStskeeps: Where is the test logs again?14:00
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StskeepsDuckboot: , look at the n900 preview thread14:00
Stskeepswe refer to them there14:00
DuckbootStskeeps: Thanks14:00
FIQ|n900<tobis87> FIQ|n900: TinyMe is a nice distro, it copies the whole image to ram (copy2ram)14:01
FIQ|n900That feature wouldn't suite me that well as i want to actually store things as well14:01
FIQ|n900(it's question about an USB stick, not a live CD)14:01
Qhubekelahow does TinyMe compare with DSL?14:04
tobis87FIQ|n900: It should be possible to install it onto a USB stick as well, I like that it uses LXDE14:04
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ghostcubeehlo :)14:05
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FIQ|n900<tobis87> FIQ|n900: It should be possible to install it onto a USB stick as well, I like that it uses LXDE14:06
FIQ|n900and disable the copy2ram thing as well? nice14:06
ghostcubehmmm i gto my urpo and vlc-remote working now, knots client drive me nuts lulz14:06
ghostcubeah and i noticed smplayer cant play mp4 but kmplayer can do so.14:07
FIQ|n900lxde is nice indeed14:07
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tobis87FIQ|n900: Well you can choose to copy to ram or not on boot... But I have not tried it to install onto a usb stick, I used it to convert an existing partition to sw raid.14:09
FIQ|n900ah, ok14:09
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lcuklardman, there has to be >1 for triangulation, they afaik only show one photo of one such transmittor14:10
lcukits similar to the location stuff we all discussed a while ago14:10
lardmanlcuk: indeed, but the author says he was told that only one transmitter is required14:11
lardmanyou could get away with one, as long as it was directional14:11
lardmanradials like aircraft use14:11
lcuki suppose if you also used the compass14:12
lardmanlcuk: yeah, but you can't know the angle at which the signal comes to you14:12
lardmanunless the signal encodes the angle, like a VOR14:12
DocScrutinizerlardman: duh, it's 'cheating' paired with a really fuzzy article about what it actually does. I am raher sure it's a MIMO WLAN AP that uses special signal processing to analyze position of mobile WLAN *transmitter* based on reflections and differences from multiple directional antennae14:13
nidOyou can, the signal itself can transmit the angle it's being broadcast at14:13
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nidOthe opposite of that + location of the box also being broadcast + calculation of strength of signal = position of device14:13
DocScrutinizerlardman: so the whole positioning calulations are not done in MT but in AP, I'm absolutely sure14:13
lardmannid0: exactly, but the signal has to encode the angle14:13
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lardmandocscrutinizer: so that is effectively a single box with directional transmitters pointing in different directions?14:14
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DocScrutinizerlardman: mobile sends a WLAN signal, AP compares the signals with a huge table of references obtained from a previous calibration14:14
lardmanoh I see14:15
DocScrutinizernope, directional receivers14:15
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lardmanso like some of the more advanced AGPS stuff14:15
lcukhmmm DocScrutinizer that doesnt sound right14:15
DocScrutinizerlike determining position of a Lion (or whatever) by receiving signal of a collar14:16
DocScrutinizerlcuk: mhm?14:16
lcukwell since clientside localised trangulation based on signals is a "trivial" calculation, it seems overly complex to re build it to work backwards14:17
lardmanhow much info can the chipset obtain about the signal to be able to identify it?14:17
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lardmanlcuk: yeah but only one transmitter (box) and also multipath/variable attenuation because of indoors-ness14:18
lcukbut i suppose the easiest is to mail them and request clarification14:18
lcuklardman, the tx box is high in the ceiling14:18
DocScrutinizerlcuk: there's extremely simple indoor localisation based on signal strength of several AP in same building. But that's not what the article says14:18
lardmanthere it was, but the blurb reckons it would work inside a normal building14:19
DocScrutinizerlcuk: true triangulation MT receiver based is an extremely complicated thing and needs special hardware. That's also not what the article says14:19
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lcukDocScrutinizer, ahem - gps calculations are done client side14:20
lcukand thats extremely complicated and multipoint traingulation14:20
lardmandedicated hw14:20
DocScrutinizercomparing the actual signals of the antennae of a MIMO AP with some reference you got during a calibration phase is rather simple and should work with a single AP14:20
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lcukin other matters, jaffa i spotted this which relates in some way to the haptics improvements for gtk we talked about
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lardmanperhaps video is not the best medium to explain that one :)14:23
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Jaffalcuk: Yeah, I saw. Very cool.14:29
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DocScrutinizerhrmhrm, haptic improvements for gtk? o.O14:37
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DocScrutinizerohnoes, another concept planned for GTA04 now hits markets from another manufacturer14:40
keriogrand theft auto?14:42
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lardmanhmm, /me reads article saying that Ovi Maps is far less hungry than Google Maps14:46
DocScrutinizerkerio: there's no absolutely confirmed story about what GTA meant in Openmoko14:46
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lardmanprobably because it's always spinning the CPU keeping itself and the task switcher busy14:46
DocScrutinizerbut for sure not grand theft auto14:46
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pexilardman, so whot, gps eats battery anyway :)14:47
* DocScrutinizer eats batteries14:47
DocScrutinizerfor breakfast14:47
lardmanpexi: yeah, but saying it;s less hungry, which presumably means bandwidth/battery/cpu is quite amusing seeing how crap Ovi Maps is on the N90014:47
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pexilardman, true dat :)14:48
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pexithey showed only blank towns @ balkan :)14:49
lardmanI do hope Meego improves the maps and calendar stakes as these are two of the main things I do with the phone and they are rubbish14:49
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pexigladly i had paper map with me :)14:49
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Appiahdoes OVI maps have turn by turn now?14:49
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lardmanAppiah: on Symbian iirc14:49
Jaffalardman: The calendar's not *too* bad.14:49
AppiahI mean on the n90014:50
maybeWTFAppiah: yes, but without voice directions14:50
lardmanJaffa: it works, but it's not very user friendly14:50
pexihow can you get reliable two-way calendar syncing work?14:50
iliusRecaller sound quallity is not good for you?14:50
lardmanJaffa: could be much better and quite easily. And yeah I could write my own but I really don't have the time14:50
pexii have tried emergin/exchange/kimi with google calendar <> n900 calendar14:51
pexinothing really works fluently14:51
lardmanI don;t care too much about exchange, I'd just like it to look nicer, have more flexibility over event alarms, etc.14:53
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pupniklardman: for barcode recognition, is there a stage where you normalize the contrast of the region dected to be a barcode? (throwing out the rest of the image)14:55
lardmanpupnik: is handled by zbar14:56
pupnikah ty14:56
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lardmanbut yeah there probably will be14:56
pupnikso i might have a chance with a low-contrast barcode?  or fat luck...14:57
lardmanmay be14:57
pupnikit makes reflections so much worse...14:57
lardmanif not have a chat to spadix in #zbar14:57
pupnikah thanks14:57
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* sivang is on the train15:37
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sivanghey pupnik , 'sup?15:40
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ShadowJKThis is pretty interesting. I have a dd image of a USB flash disk that has been used in my sheevaplug for awhile. It failed a few weeks ago. However, the interesting thing is that I used ext3, and never ran fsck15:45
ShadowJKwhen I now run fsck, I get alot of file corruption..15:45
ShadowJKWithout fsck, it looks fine :)15:45
ShadowJKflash is really evil :)15:45
keriowoo! sheevaplug!15:46
keriomy sheevaplug zeroed a 4gb SD while it has the "lock" switch set to lock15:46
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sivangsomeone should tell marvel about it :)15:54
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pupniki would like faster flash drives15:54
n900evilI want my car back on the road.15:54
* n900evil is now known as busevil.15:55
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lardmanbusevil...? Modern bus with computer built in I wonder...?15:56
n900evilrunning meego.15:57
lardmanof course ;)15:57
n900evilYou climb out through the window. This is a result of the innovative package manager.15:58
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* lardman curses HAM for making me wait for things to be installed/uninstalled rather than letting me look at other things15:59
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mgedminYou push the STOP button.  The bus is busy swapping so it ignores you for a couple of kilometers15:59
lardmanalso if the bus is backed up, you may not get swapped out when you want16:00
n900evilswap fragmentation is bad.16:01
defraggeris it possible to create my own .desktop file to open osso-xterm with some commands like ssh servername?16:02
lardmandoes anyone know how QThread prevents me using widget classes within its run() method?16:02
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ShadowJKIt's possible. fmboost basically does this16:02
lardmandefragger: .desktop to a script16:02
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satmdShadowJK: corrupted superblock? try anothe copy with fsck16:02
defraggerah ok i will try that16:02
defraggerwith terminal true right/16:02
ShadowJKsatmd, superblock was fine16:03
ShadowJKsatmd, the fun thing is that I get all data back fine when i DONT run fsck16:03
ShadowJKif I run fsck, data starts getting corrupted :)16:03
mgedminare you running fsck on a mounted partition, ShadowJK?16:04
sx0nlardman, because ui runs in main thread?16:05
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lardmanI know why you shouldn't do it, just wondering if I can access members of a widget-derived class without penalty - I guess so16:06
lardmanwell I'll try it and see anyway16:07
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dRbiGo'right now someone point me to where Maemo keeps the magic file with [Desktop Entry] stuff ;)16:29
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ghostcubehmmm is it safe to install the custom libsoup for knots2 or is there any devel version of it with ssl support?16:30
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MohammadAG/usr/share/applications/hildon-home for widgets16:34
dRbiGMohammadAG: googled that already but thank you... however, i have an issue that when i for example open the add desktop shortcut menu i have some items listed two times (doubled), like they were defined in to places - which is annoying - any idea where a 'master list' of apps can be stored?16:36
dRbiGand it still seems that when i uninstall catorise i get only 14 icons16:36
dRbiGthis time looks like some list is half empty or broken16:37
dRbiGall started after uninstalling mymenu which was way worse than catorise16:37
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dRbiGi wish there was some way to categorize the apps the way i like from the gui16:38
dRbiGeven simple category approach of palmos would be much better16:38
dRbiGthan either having all thrown at once or some categories made by someone which i do not agree with16:39
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flexxxvHy; I'm trying to use the EFF script from here:
flexxxvBut I get all the time: sh: -eq: argument expected17:04
flexxxvhere is the pastebin:
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VenemoN900Hey guys17:16
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mgedminpwsafe's add icon is broken17:21
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flexxxvher is a log:
flexxxvcould it be that EFF is broken because of hostmode?17:27
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MohammadAGwhere did you get that script?17:29
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flexxxvIt should be for automatic scanning of frequencies17:31
kerioWARNING: You must type "root" NOT "sudo gainroot" or else......dont worry it wont brick your N900 but you will get many many errors and you will have to restart your phone.17:31
kerioi wouldn't touch that with a 10 feet pole17:31
flexxxvkerio: some peoplel had success with that17:33
flexxxvkerio: and root and sudo gainroot are not  exactly the same17:33
keriothey... are17:33
MohammadAGfor fuck's sake17:33
MohammadAGkerio, no17:33
keriocat `which root`17:33
MohammadAGindent your code people!17:33
MohammadAGkerio, they're not the same17:33
MohammadAGin ways I don't know about17:34
MohammadAGbut root has env variables set properly, dbus-send works fine with it17:34
MohammadAGwith sudo gainroot some shit doesn't work17:34
kerioit makes no sense17:34
MohammadAGlike dbus-send, themes etc...17:34
MohammadAGI know17:34
kerio"root" is just a shell script that does sudo gainroot17:34
flexxxvbut it use  "--use-su"17:34
ghostcuberoot is set by flashing maemo with a special option or?17:35
keriooh, that's it then17:35
ghostcubeso you have a real root17:35
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kerioso "root" doesn't make a full root login17:35
kerioand by "root" i mean "sudo gainroot --use-su"17:36
quanttrom PROMPT_COMMAND='pwd>&7;kill -STOP $$'17:36
quanttrom PROMPT_COMMAND='pwd>&7;kill -STOP $$'17:37
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flexxxvanyway that discussion wont make the script run :D so someone her can see whats wrong?17:37
kerioseeing MohammadAG's indignation at the lack of indentation, i expect a better script that runs in half the time that gives better results in about 20 minutes17:38
keriounless he's busy17:38
kerioMohammadAG: that guy also asks for donations17:39
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MohammadAGzenity's a bit meh17:40
flexxxv:D I just was confused by this line in debug mode: " + expr 60 1" so i'll wait to see what happens. If nothing I maybe should try to compile this:
flexxxvmaybe a better way...17:41
flexxxv@MohammadAG I think the author is thinking about building a c++ app. instead of using zenity17:42
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kerioMohammadAG: hurry!17:43
keriowrite it in c++/qt17:44
flexxxvlol :P17:44
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DocScrutinizeryou're a crazy mad bunch17:46
mgedminwhat the?17:46
mgedminyou call that a script?17:46
mgedminit's a mish-mash of a script and a copy/paste of its output when run with sh -x17:46
keriothere's the real source in the TMO thread17:47
flexxxvmgedmin: define script ;) or ask the author :P17:47
MohammadAGkerio, cba17:47
MohammadAGthough I indented the code, I hate ugly code17:47
mgedminoh noe, the indentation hate is in the original as well17:48
keriodamn, i failed to consider the cba factor :(17:48
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MohammadAG#  Copyright (c) 2010 OEM LTD (HE99116)          # <--????17:49
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jaskapeculiar company name17:50
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lardmanWhat do you chaps think I should use as a notification that mBarcode is currently scanning?17:53
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: fs corruption by fsck is a commonly known side effect of mounting the physical device of a VFAT partition as superfloppy17:53
lcuklardman, is the UI visible at the time?17:53
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flexxxveasiest way to compile armel without setting up a scratchbox? (just one file for a small test)17:54
MohammadAGpaste the code for someone else to compile it17:54
lcuklardman, does the UI update the camera image whilst scanning in not in progress?17:54
DocScrutinizerlardman: use blinkenlights?17:54
flexxxvok I boot the other pc with scratchbox...17:55
MohammadAGLOL was typing that17:55
lardmanyeah, only problem is that your hand tends to be over the blinkedlights17:55
lardmanI was thinking a Cylon-style blip moving back and forth along the "aim here" bar17:56
ShadowJKthat's what symbian does17:56
ShadowJKand then it draws a rectangle around barcode17:56
DocScrutinizerso it must be wrong17:56
lardmanShadowJK: I'll do the drawing eventually, but I need to get the libraries to output that data, so probably not a job for this afternoon17:57
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lardmanin the meantime is there a stock way of sticking a message up on the screen?17:58
DocScrutinizerlardman: btw mbarcode fails epically for me, when used without 'autofocus' checkmarked, which in fact seems to mean autocapture17:58
lardmanDocScrutinizer: you need to half press the shutter button to get it to focus17:58
DocScrutinizeryeah, and then?17:58
lardmanand then point at the barcode17:59
lardmanwhen it detects something it will bring up a results window17:59
MohammadAG    QMaemo5InformationBox::information(this, tr("Some text"))17:59
lardmanwhat's the barcode?17:59
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DocScrutinizertested several17:59
lardmanMohammadAG: thanks, will take a look at that17:59
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lardmanDocScrutinizer: low light?17:59
DocScrutinizeryep, somewhat17:59
lardmanare these 1D codes?18:00
MohammadAGfacebrick's source is ftw to learn Qt from :P18:00
DocScrutinizersome where18:00
lardmanthe 1D code doesn't like low light, needs improving18:00
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MohammadAGwhat's the C++ equivalent of while true; do echo 255 > brightness; done18:00
lardmantry a QR code though, those work well all the time (yay for derf!)18:00
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DocScrutinizerstrange thing is, with autofocus it works like a charm18:01
lardmanthat is strange18:01
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lardmandoes the autofocus turn the flash on?18:01
Milo-any way of using physical keyboard when n900 boots up and asks for pin or lock code?18:01
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DocScrutinizerexcept on low light, where flash fails boldly due to overexposure18:02
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lardmanjust wondering if the fact the focus assist is coming on it giving it a better image to work with18:02
TermanaMohammadAG, while (true) { system("echo 255 > brightness") }18:02
DocScrutinizeryes, on lowlight it does, and then it mostly fails18:02
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TermanaMohammadAG, while (true) { system("echo 255 > brightness"); }18:02
lardmanDocScrutinizer: yeah18:02
MohammadAGthat uses system()18:02
Termanaso? :P18:03
DocScrutinizerTermana: fn(){fn; fn}; fn18:03
MohammadAGI said C++ equivalent of the code, not the C++ code to start a sh18:03
MohammadAG~burn Termana18:03
* infobot pours gasoline all over Termana, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze18:03
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MohammadAGmmm, marshmallows18:04
TermanaMohammadAG, well, I guess you could open the file and then write to the file in C++... not entirely sure weather it would work, but I guess it should18:04
* DocScrutinizer shoots Termana with ashes of 500 burnt OMAP CPUs18:04
crashanddiemohammadAG: while (true) { ofstream of;"brightness"); of << "255"; of.close; }18:05
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* DocScrutinizer starts to prepare a mass kick batch job18:06
* MohammadAG saves crashanddie's code till he figures out how to use QFileSystemWatcher18:06
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crashanddieactually, make that"brightness", ios::trunc);18:07
* DocScrutinizer saves MohammadAG's last words18:07
* MohammadAG kicks DocScrutinizer 18:07
* crashanddie slices mohammadAG's throat18:07
lardmanhmm, is it possible to get rid of a QMaemo5InformationBox once displayed?18:07
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Termana~nuke DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG and crashanddie18:08
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG and crashanddie ... B☢☢M!18:08
* MohammadAG falls down and stabs crashanddie in the nuts18:08
DocScrutinizeryou noobs forgot a nice -n -20 to make it really nasty. Always those halfassed terrorism attacks18:08
crashanddielardman: .hide()18:08
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DocScrutinizernuking a few N900 won't free Palestine :-P18:09
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, but it might start a war in Germany :P18:10
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CutMeOwnThroat* crashanddie slices mohammadAG's throat18:10
lardmancrashanddie: thanks18:10
Termanacrashanddie isn't here crazy man18:10
CutMeOwnThroattsk... tsk...18:10
Termanacan I take a message for you?18:10
merlin1991CutMeOwnThroat, dribbler?18:11
CutMeOwnThroatwithout the r, please18:11
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crashanddiemohammadAG: they usually start theirs wars alone, every 20 years... They managed to keep quiet for 60 years, I'm guessing next week will see WW3 :D18:11
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: see stuxnet X-P18:11
DocScrutinizerwe got better18:12
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merlin1991for some reason I always write dribbler when I mean dibbler :) but the books are awesome18:12
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pupniksome germans are trying to win the tablet war with linux+android18:12
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DocScrutinizerfirst we sell Siemens SPS, then we nuke the atomic plants of enemy via the internets18:12
crashanddiemy IRC screen is all red now :(18:13
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Termanacrashanddie, stop killing people18:13
* MohammadAG just noticed Siemens sounds like semens18:13
TermanaMohammadAG, sea men.18:13
TermanaMohammadAG, see man.18:13
crashanddiemohammadAG: Try to imagine how it sucks to be a marine: "Listen, sea men!"18:13
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pupnikgimme 4.5" 1024x600 (or similar) on next meego device18:14
crashanddienow quickly spam the channel so this shit is removed from the screen18:14
infobotI'm on 108 channels: #debian/896, #maemo/487, #meego/482, #kde/383, #asterisk/220, #gsoc/170, #oe/163, #wowace/161, #wowuidev/158, #htc-linux/155, #openmoko/155, #wowhead/123, #webos-internals/106, #openmoko-cdevel/104, #sc2mapster/96, #utah/68, #asterisk-dev/62, #tomcat/59, #bzflag/58, #uclibc/55, #curseforge/55, #wowwiki/50, #edev/49, #slug/43, #utos/42, #gllug/39, #elinux/37, #uphpu/35, #norganna/32, #ubuntu-us-ut/29, #asterisk-bugs/28, #/27, ...18:15
infoboti've cached 5148 users, 3694 unique users, distributed over 108 channels.18:15
pupniki mean, really 1024, for web browsing....18:15
lardman~lart Ubuntu Lucid Lynx for not allowing me to mount my N90018:15
* infobot cuts Ubuntu Lucid Lynx into thin stripes for not allowing me to mount my N90018:15
Termana~kill pupnik18:15
* infobot shoots a excited graviton gun at pupnik18:15
Termana~cookieslap pupnik18:15
TermanaSomeone needs to add a cookieslap command to infobot18:15
pupnik~lart pupnik18:16
* infobot pours hot grits down the front of pupnik's pants18:16
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: aren't we good boys? ;-P18:16
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: need some more spam?18:16
pupniklet's band together to form the "really annoying 1024x pixel res campaign"18:16
TermanaDocScrutinizer, I think so18:17
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DocScrutinizer~tell Termana about help18:18
Termana~lobotomy DocScrutinizer18:18
* infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on DocScrutinizer18:18
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* DocScrutinizer 's two personalities are still discussing how to answer that attack. Takes a while, have to read what I've just witten18:19
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infobotSince Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 96 modifications, 1352 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 604 commands.  I have been awake for 13d 5h 22m 8s this session, and currently reference 117305 factoids.  I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 4348.22/109.89 child 0/018:20
Termanainfobot, Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?18:21
DocScrutinizergot nfc what 'morons: 0' means, anyway it doesn't look correct18:21
timeless_pidginSp3000 : please ask eero why bluetoothd is running on my n900 when bluetooth is off.18:21
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flexxxvis it normal that the include/media/si4713.h of the kernel headers is emty?18:23
timeless_pidginAlso, if someone could figure out the "proper" way to move 2gb of photos from an mmc to the n900's mass storage w/o having the system slow to a crawl, please let me know...18:23
flexxxvis it normal that the si4713.h of the kernel headers is emty?18:23
flexxxvsry wrong path18:23
DocScrutinizertimeless_pidgin: from a mc to n900? please elaborate18:24
DocScrutinizertimeless_pidgin: copying from microSD to eMMC is known to bring system to a grinding halt18:25
timeless_pidginmv /media/mmc1/DCIM/*NIKON MyDocs/DCIM-card/18:25
DocScrutinizerwriting to eMMC via ass rage mode yields 11MB/s sustainably18:25
timeless_pidginIs there a way to avoid the grinding halt? It kinda sucks...18:26
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DocScrutinizerso it has to be a really nasty strange effect that only shows up when using uSD and eMMC interface concurrently18:26
DocScrutinizerno matter whether directly on system (cp) or via ass rage18:27
timeless_pidginEach folder has 200 photos. And mv deletes a folder when it finishes copying it.18:27
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DocScrutinizerhaven't found a way to copy huge amounts of data from uSD to eMMC the easy way18:28
DocScrutinizeruSD -> laptop /tmp -> MyDocs18:28
timeless_pidginWould mv to $HOME first suck less?18:28
DocScrutinizerprolly not18:29
DocScrutinizernever tested though18:29
timeless_pidginI don't really have a laptop with me...18:29
DocScrutinizerseems concurrent usage of both physical interfaces is somehow messing up the swap, by swapping out in favour of bufers, or sth18:30
kerioDocScrutinizer: try turning off swap18:30
timeless_pidginAlso would rsync from uSD to net suck less? Assume wifi/dsl18:30
DocScrutinizerwas about to suggest that18:30
DocScrutinizerat least that wouldn't bring whole device to a frozen state I guess18:31
DocScrutinizer(suggest) swapoff18:31
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DocScrutinizeror copy only small chunks at a time18:31
DocScrutinizerwith syncs in between18:32
DocScrutinizer(wild guessing and handwaving)18:32
ShadowJKtimeless_pidgin, try this before huge copiesL echo 1 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness18:32
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ShadowJKthen back to 100 after copy18:32
DocScrutinizergoood point18:32
kerioor 018:33
DocScrutinizeralso maybe don't use mv :-P18:33
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DocScrutinizerinstead better use cp18:33
ShadowJK0 is dangerous18:33
ShadowJKbecause you can run out of memory18:34
DocScrutinizerkerio: it will beam you to infinity alef 718:34
ShadowJKand thrn things go crazy18:34
DocScrutinizerif you calculate mem/swappiness18:34
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timeless_pidginWhy would cp be better?18:35
DocScrutinizerwon't destroy your original data before you confirmed it has been synced to destination :-D18:35
timeless_pidginSurely mv isn't dangerous?18:36
DocScrutinizermv across phy devs is18:36
ShadowJKit all starts with emmc hating multitasking, and when you do big IO on emmc, there'll be like 6 concurrent datastreams, which the emmc is able to serve at a grand total of about 400kbyte/s ...18:36
DocScrutinizerif buffers are involved18:36
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timeless_pidginHow pray tell do i confirm 2gb of photos have been properly copied, short of using rsync in the first place?18:37
ShadowJKThat and kernel not knowing your big ass copy is "single use" and you couldn't care less if none of it ended up in ram18:37
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: mv thinks file has been cp'd to destination and purges original file, while actual data bitrots in buffers which never get synced18:37
DocScrutinizerdd it18:39
* MohammadAG wonders if buying his dad an iPhone 4 is a good thing18:40
timeless_pidginOk, how does swapoff -a work?18:40
DocScrutinizerhonestly, best is a find ./whatever -exec "cp {} dest/; sync; "18:40
timeless_pidginIt's hanging. ..18:41
MohammadAGfind on busybox doesn't support -exec18:41
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zashMohammadAG: pipe to xargs?18:41
DocScrutinizerit swaps all out of storage back to ram, and fails if there's not enough memory18:41
MohammadAGI'm just saying18:41
DocScrutinizerif it succeeds, it finally disables the swap partition usage18:42
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I know18:42
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils18:42
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MohammadAGI have a feeling BLIZZARD doesn't have any idea about scripting18:44
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if posting tmo URLs is a ban'able behaviour18:45
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MohammadAGno, but wondering about it is ban'able18:45
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flexxxvMohammadAG: will try soon :D18:46
MohammadAGtry what?18:46
DocScrutinizerno, posting fuzzy URLs that don't precisely point to a particular post is18:46
MohammadAGit's trying to read a non existent file18:46
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, then it means I'm referring to the page18:46
MohammadAGa script should check for a damn file18:47
MohammadAGand if something exits with 1, it shouldn't go on!18:47
flexxxvwait a second. wrong irc channel :P18:48
flexxxvI'm not BLIZZARD. Just to clarify this :P ;)18:48
MohammadAGwell, duh18:49
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DocScrutinizerWTF, function() defs interleaved with single main() lines. My footnails curl up18:50
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timeless_pidginYou realize that i'm 80mb of ram in debt to swap18:50
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TermanaDocScrutinizer, you should probably get the seen to by a doctor18:51
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ShadowJKtimeless_pidgin, swapoff -a is probably not a good idea unless you've just rebooted18:51
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flexxxvI want to compile this: but I'm a noob at c++18:52
flexxxvcant solve the probs with si4713.h18:52
DocScrutinizerno, the dude placing the lines from >>#Temporary... to >>zenity... exactly where they are, this dude *really* should visit a specialist for neural impairment treetment18:53
ShadowJKI don't think swapoff can fail, it'll just get infinitely slower as it gets closer to the end :)18:53
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TermanaApparently he shouldn't have done that18:53
ShadowJK(or maybe it crashes)18:53
flexxxvSo i need the si4713.h but it isn't included at the stock headers :(18:54
ShadowJKso my N900 briefly flashes the crossed out SIM icon and drops cellular data whenever I move around...18:54
* ShadowJK tries pad the sim holder with a piece of paper18:54
jacekowskiShadowJK: swapoff can fail if there is not enough memory18:54
jacekowskiflexxxv: why do you include si4713?18:55
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DocScrutinizerouuuuch, a function called vars(). And it's doing non-reentrant crap like max=`expr $max \* 100`18:56
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DocScrutinizercall it twice and you got max=max*1000018:56
MohammadAGflexxxv, code is C, not C++18:57
* DocScrutinizer burps, disgusted18:57
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lardmanhow should one add a widget to a layout in the form designer of QTCreator?18:58
lardmanthe layout appears as a 2 pixel-wide line, but I can't seem to drop anything into/onto it18:59
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flexxxvMohammadAG: ups19:00
flexxxvjacekowski: I think I need  it for struct si4713_rnl and SI4713_IOC_MEASURE_RNL19:01
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flexxxvtobis87: already tried to use but then I get:
GAN900crashanddie, what's in it for me?19:05
ShadowJKI wonder what happened to timeless...19:06
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DocScrutinizergone apeshit while reading that script19:06
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ShadowJKwhat script?19:07
crashanddieGAN900, sorry?19:07
ShadowJKsomeone gave him a script?19:07
DocScrutinizersee link moh pated above19:07
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DocScrutinizerthe most screwed code I've seen since... ages19:08
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flexxxvespeccially I'm wondering about 'struct si4713_rnl' has no member named 'frequency' but for my eyes it looks like has it?19:08
GAN900crashanddie, LinkedIn. :P19:08
DocScrutinizercheck out hempty_a..d() :-O**19:08
crashanddieGAN900, be cool19:08
GAN900crashanddie, and I get the connecting to you?19:09
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ShadowJK2.6.32 isn't the kernel in maemo19:10
tobis87flexxxv: This is the file from the patch file for 2.6.28
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lardmanqt designer really is pretty crap19:11
tobis87Yeah, I know I didn't thought there would be a big difference.19:11
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flexxxvtobis87: thx. now looking for radio-si4713.h :D19:12
crashanddieGAN900, no19:13
crashanddieGAN900, connect with me, and you'll be ubercool.19:13
MohammadAGwhat's the fm radio module called?19:13
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ShadowJKreceiver or transmitter?19:13
GAN900crashanddie, incentive indeed.19:13
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flexxxverror: aggregate 'si4713_rnl rnl' has incomplete type and cannot be defined19:16
flexxxverror: 'SI4713_IOC_MEASURE_RNL' was not declared in this scope19:16
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MohammadAGShadowJK, receiver19:17
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DocScrutinizerdamn, that's been suspense. Honestly I get a thrill like wahtching a horror movie, from reading that script19:19
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tobis87flexxxv: Did you copy it from here? This will not work, the program is written with the headers from 2.6.32 in mind. So the header from 2.6.32 was correct, but you need to correct the header file to work with
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DocScrutinizera particularly nice one: rans=$(zenity -entry-text "root" --title "you must be root"...); eval $rans19:23
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DocScrutinizerit's a grace of konqueror not to allow text-highlight&copy inside the [code] js crap19:26
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: all your indentation won't make it less ugly :-P19:27
MohammadAGindentation is awesome19:28
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slonopotamuslet's try again19:29
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slonopotamusanyone knows what software dims and turns off screen in maemo?19:30
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Stskeepsmce, it hink19:30
slonopotamusdoes it work in mer/meego?19:31
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* slonopotamus sighs19:41
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jacekowskislonopotamus: no19:42
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slonopotamusjacekowski: doesn't work or anyone doesn't know?19:42
jacekowskithere is no mce on mer19:43
jacekowskior meego19:43
Stskeepsjacekowski: mer has powerlaunch19:43
jacekowskithere is something else19:43
Stskeepsand there's xorg blanking19:43
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slonopotamusby "it" i meant "screen dimming and turning off" there19:43
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slonopotamusStskeeps: xorg blanking just makes it black, it still powers screen, isn't it?19:44
ZogGfacebook gonna integrate skype? wtf?19:44
jacekowskiZogG: userlist probably19:44
ZogGsms voice chat19:45
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jacekowskiconnect you meant?19:45
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zashZogG: not just that they want your account and password to scrape contacts19:45
ZogGthey are stealing alos all my free time19:45
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slonopotamusokay, according to omapfb sources, they cannot dim/turn off screen (not implemented)19:47
RST38h"Specialist Morlock was accused by the Army of taking part in all three killings during his deployment in Afghanistan's Kandahar province... Other soldiers in the unit told investigators that the accused ringleader collected fingers and other body parts from Afghan corpses"19:47
RST38h+15 bonus points for his last name19:47
slonopotamusStskeeps: and how meego turns off screen?19:49
Stskeepsslonopotamus: xorg turnoff, afaik19:49
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slonopotamusStskeeps: you use maemo xomap?19:50
Stskeepsno such thing even on m519:50
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slonopotamusi'm on n800 though19:52
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slonopotamuslooking at powerlaunch. Stskeeps, thanks for the pointer19:53
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flexxxvtobis87: think I cant make this to work19:57
flexxxvsomeone else here who wants to do? ;)19:58
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tobis87Why do you want to measure the received noise level? This does not make much sense standalone.20:01
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tobis87Btw, I tired fm radio the first time today, why does it require bluetooth enabled?20:03
MohammadAGFM receiver and BT radio are on the same chip20:04
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flexxxvtobis87: Ijust want a easy binary to read the noise level (one tool one job ;) ) to see how strong the signal is and then use a script for scanning :D20:04
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tobis87So it will use the amount of energy as if I would use bt?20:05
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tobis87Right, but I also have no idea what's wrong with the struct. But for the second error, add #define BASE_VIDIOC_PRIVATE 19220:09
dRbiGlol, now i have a 'Internal error. Application Contacts has been closed.' over and over again20:09
dRbiGmaemo seems to be some kind of software error/problem generator ;)20:10
dRbiGgoogling around, and well, i have the default kernel20:10
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dRbiGlol i've killed the proces that does that and i got myself a free reboot20:13
dRbiGwhat a crap20:13
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flexxxvtobis87: thx20:14
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tobis87flexxxv: And _IOWR seems to be defined in a ioctl.h file, but I don't know which would be correct anyway try #include <asm/ioctl.h>20:16
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tobis87dRbiG: At least you still have control over it, someone else had the problem that his n900 always rebooted, if he got called...20:21
dRbiGlol :D :D20:21
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pupnik"a life devoted to the dream-machine is morally wrong"20:22
tobis87And he got called often, while he was trying to backup his data20:22
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fralsif hes too stupid to activate offline mode after the 2nd time i feel sorry for him :<20:23
* ShadowJK thinks he's narrowed down the reason why N900 and external bluetooth gps receiver only half works, to a single constant that's "wrong"20:23
ShadowJKyay, it works :-)20:24
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dRbiGi okey, does 'apt-get update' does the same as update from the hildon-application-manager?20:24
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tobis87yes, but you have to be root... HAM I think has an entry in /etc/sudoers20:27
MohammadAGHAM doesn't use apt-get directly20:28
MohammadAGit uses /usr/libexec/apt-worker20:28
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tobis87But how does ham than have permission to replace files on root? Then apt-worker must have access.20:30
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sivangso for those wondering about gnome, some of the proejcts being rebranched for the next release are tomoby and zenity20:33
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sivangdoes it make sense to open bug reports for Maemo?20:36
sivangwhen tracker-indexer is re-ran, it makes the GUI seriously unresponsive,20:36
keriotracker is just a single, massive bug20:36
sivangnow this can be tolerated in most of the GUI operations however when you are trying to unlock the device using the swipe dial , or when reciving a call,20:37
sivangit makes it annoying to wait for the UI to come up to answer the person on the other side :)20:37
sivangkerio: :/20:37
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sivangeating ~70% cpu right now20:37
* sivang going back to dinner , be back later20:39
BCMMwhy doesn't maemo use nice a bit more?20:40
BCMMespecially for apt-*, imho20:40
RST38hBecause nice does not help there?20:42
achipayou need ionice for that20:42
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RST38hand hello, javispedro20:42
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sivangachipa: ? ;)20:43
sivanghey RST38h20:43
* sivang tries to recall the way to specify primary and secondary nameserver in resolve.conf20:44
merlin1991just put the secondary in the 2nd line?20:45
merlin1991so the initial request goes to the primary?20:45
DocScrutinizersivang: throttle=1020:46
sivangmerlin1991: this seems to have terrible latency trying to query before20:46
sivangDocScrutinizer: oh, right I should have remembered that discussion. Thanks, I will do this20:46
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opdf2I accidently deleted a folder in MyDocs. WHere can I find a list of the defualt folders created in the emmc?20:49
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mgedminopdf2, you could download the eMMC image, unpack it with flasher, mount it with -o loop, and do an ls20:50
mgedminor you could ask someone here20:50
sivangDocScrutinizer: what did MohammadAG patched in hildon to make it hog less the CPU?20:50
* sivang is curious20:50
lcuksivang, he hasn't patched anything in20:50
tobis87If Blizzard continues updating his script with this speed, he will have rev. 2.0.0 tonight, while really it is in 0.0.2. At least "Copyright (c) 2010 BLIZZARD" is a little bit better than OEM LTD.20:51
lcukhe has reverted a tweak made earlier adjusting the scrolling stuff20:51
lcukOEM Ltf are a legit company according to google20:51
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mgedminopdf2, I've .sounds, .videos, .documents, .images, .maps, Mac OS, cities, DCIM, backups -- I think all the rest were created by me or by some app20:51
opdf2mgedmin:  thank you!20:51
javispedroyou actually only need the first four afaik20:52
javispedroand DCIM20:52
sivanglcuk: oh, the tools page of Joerg links to a package he supposedly patched?20:52
sivangextras stil hosed btw?20:52
* RevdKathy is gald to see lcuk back in IRC20:52
* sivang checks topic20:52
dRbiGwhat app uses cities?20:52
mgedminsivang, extras is unhosd20:52
lcukRevdKathy, :)20:52
RevdKathyor even glad20:52
javispedrodRbiG: ovi maps20:52
lcuktrying normality20:52
mgedminwell, was unhosed maybe an hour ago, when I updated a bunch of stuff20:52
RevdKathyHiya. Nice to see normality20:52
sivanghey RevdKathy20:52
RevdKathyFreenode wasn't the same without yo.20:53
RevdKathyHi sivang20:53
opdf2where is .maps from?20:53
opdf2I don't remember that20:53
* sivang tunrs off the away as he is postoning dinner some more.20:53
opdf2Maps without the . is from sygic I think20:54
* sivang gets no room left on device again20:54
sivangI haven't installed anything and yet I get no room on device agani20:54
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achipasivang:, though that stuff is probably not directly applicable, due to eMMC specifics20:56
achipa~seen normality20:56
RevdKathyHey achipa. :)20:56
infoboti haven't seen 'normality', achipa20:56
mgedminsivang, I seem to remember that running 'sync' triggers the jffs2 garbage collector and can free up some space20:57
mgedminmight be worth a try20:58
mgedminI think these days the biggest hogs are apt's package lists in /var/cache/apt: if you have too many 3rd-party repos, your free space will shrink rapidly20:58
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ShadowJKandre__, what, not even a "Fixed in harmattan"? :-)21:02
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andre__ShadowJK, hehe, on which bug?21:02
ShadowJKbug 1135421:03
povbot`Bug gypsy-daemon can not parse GPRMC message from external GPS receiver21:03
andre__if I don't know whether it's fixed in Harmattan I cannot tell ;-)21:03
andre__I just try to warn to avoid too much expectation...21:03
achipamgedmin: too many ? you mean like extras-testing and extras-devel ? :) those two alone are in the tens of megs21:03
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tobis87Has someone heard of a way to unload a driver which is built-in the kernel? I want to unload the cfg80211 driver and there is a cfg80211_exit symbol listed in /proc/kallsyms, but it is locally.21:04
ShadowJKandre__, I'd like to know what GPS device this thing was tested with to begin with, and whether it was Gates or Buffet that financed the purchase of a such a fancy unit that sends magnetic deviation and what not instead of just bare minimums :-)21:05
DocScrutinizerhi RevdKathy, lcuk21:05
RevdKathyHi DocScrutinizer. How's you?21:06
DocScrutinizerhungry and with a lame left arm :-D21:06
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DocScrutinizerso, qite well21:07
DocScrutinizerquite even21:07
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tobis87Argh, This is the only thing which blocks using the injection driver with the stock kernel...21:09
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DocScrutinizertobis87: if you find a way, please tell me. Would be handy for hostmode as well21:14
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tobis87Well there was a way to disable vdso32 at runtime by writing to 0 to the adress listed in, but this is a sysctl value, I have no idea how I can call a module_exit function... But it has to  be possible, I'm actually shocked that nobody ever found a way to do it, at least I have not found any reference.21:19
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slonopotamusStskeeps, powerlaunch talks to dsme about screen dimming. and, of course, relevant dsme module was not opensourced21:23
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javispedrotobis87: so, write your own module to do that. call it "the kernel breaker"21:23
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MohammadAGthe\ kernel\ breaker.ko21:23
MohammadAGko = knock out lol21:23
slonopotamusStskeeps, all the magic should happen in /mnt/initfs/usr/lib/dsme/
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javispedroMohammadAG: Coccothraustes.ko ("The genus name of Coccothraustes is Greek, meaning kernel breaker") ;)21:26
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
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MohammadAGlol javispedro21:31
tobis87Why? If no other driver rellies on it and the kernel also calls the drivername_exit function on shutdown. Nah, I do not flash the injection kernel, without knowing what he changed in it. I don't need it that much. But I hope cfg80211 will be compiled as module, if the hostmode kernel will become more stable.21:32
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MohammadAGyou can compile the stock kernel with the cfg thingy as a module21:33
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DocScrutinizertobis87: once hostmode kernel is sufficiently stable (and cleaned from rubbish) then for sure we'll also have a look into supporting other things as well21:33
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you tried it?21:34
MohammadAGno, but I am bored21:35
DocScrutinizerfriggin musb_core for example will make kernel panic on boot, when compiled as module, afaik21:35
MohammadAGkernel-power has it done21:36
MohammadAGor the injection one21:36
DocScrutinizerI'd not be too much surprised to find same thing for cfg80211 driver21:36
javispedroDocScrutinizer: oooh, I remember that.  iirc because bme or dsme or someone couldn't find some sysfs file21:36
DocScrutinizeraah yes. of course, you're right21:36
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: exactly. charger detect21:37
tobis87Thanks, there are so many different projects right now. Would be a pain if you have to compile it all for yourself. Hostmode, Pulseaudio, Ramzswap (swap notifier), Hw encryption, Injection...21:37
tobis87Overclocking should be extra21:37
SpeedEvilI wanna do accel-tap-input21:37
DocScrutinizertobis87: I'm hoping for MohammadAG to integrate all into his community repo21:38
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MohammadAGon a related note21:38
MohammadAGcan someone test the repo, pretty please? :)21:38
DocScrutinizerI bet you'll find more volunteers than you could even handle21:39
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FIQ|n900what repo?21:39
DocScrutinizersee :-D21:39
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FIQ|n900Meh, i just asked what you were talking about21:40
FIQ|n900if it would interest me or not21:40
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: that's the point exactly. Do a proper wiki page, listing the details and what it's suposed to do or good for21:41
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it's still not announced actually21:41
MohammadAGI'm not sure if HAM will upgrade21:41
FIQ|n900mohammedAG, i've that activated already21:41
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MohammadAGI need a stock PR1.2 tester21:41
DocScrutinizerwell, point me to a howto21:42
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FIQ|n900btw, i happily tried a dist-upgrade some time ago, fully aware about the high screwup risk, but it failed. D:21:43
RST38hMohammad: Forget HAM, not being able to do this with HAM will cut down on the number of lemmings21:43
javispedroand actually, I wonder if putting so many Weapons of Mass Destruction in the capable hands of lemmings is a good idea...21:43
RST38hFIQ: You actually expected it to succeed and ruin your setup?21:44
FIQ|n900Not really21:44
FIQ|n900but i think it was worth a try. :321:44
RST38hjavispedro: Actually, a VERY good idea, as long as they do not come to you asking "WHAT DOES THIS BUTTON DO???"21:44
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tobis87Yeah, if hw encryption becomes eventually stable, the mantainer seems to be too busy fixing bugs for Meego I assume right know and I cannot debug it, since the kernel crash doesn't leave anything in /dev/mtd2 and he surely has jtag... Anyway applying this patch would be very helpfull, since it increases the speed of the omap-sha1-md5 driver:;a=commit;h=72a1179ed41e0fc6bd5eb58e21:45
RST38hMohammad: what are changes to your copy of ham?21:45
deltextras repo still broken? :(21:45
FIQ|n900i downloaded some upgrades to hildon-* though21:45
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: ping me later if you still need a tester.21:46
MohammadAGRST38h, it still sucks, I'll do a proper changelog once someone confirms this works21:46
SpeedEvilI'm going to sleep.21:46
SpeedEvilBusses suck.21:46
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I'm temped to place a single line like 'sudo cp /dev/null /dev/mtd' somewhere21:46
RST38hDoc: ah, please, do21:47
* SpeedEvil has just walked 3 miles home.21:47
deltSpeedEvil: what country are you in?21:47
SpeedEvilThe busses to be fair are on schedule.21:47
deltoh. must be around 6 pm there?21:47
FIQ|n900hoever, the only thing preventing a dist-upgrade is busybox, but i don't care that much (as it's way unstable atm)21:47
DocScrutinizerwithout further explanation, but a tempting topic consisting of some buzzwords21:47
SpeedEvilAnd are somewhat usable.21:47
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SpeedEvilIt's just I misread the timetable when tired.21:47
deltwell, good nap =)21:48
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RST38hSpeedEvil: Is it still ok to kill locals with an arrow any day of the week, except when there is market in the town? =)21:49
javispedroDocScrutinizer: so many people have tried that on ubuntu forums they now have to show the banhammer when someone tries to do that to "poor" lemmings =)21:50
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hehe yes21:50
MohammadAGtobis87, want a stock kernel with cfg compiled as a module?21:50
FIQ|n900oh, and btw, that optification shellscript, does someone have it?21:50
RST38htmo is not an ubuntu forum21:50
FIQ|n900i always end up with lots of crap in locales21:50
MohammadAGnot tested, won't write /dev/zero to your mtds21:50
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: eh??21:50
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer: someone linked a maemo optify shell script for freeing up root space (moving tmp deb location, moving locale, python and other things)21:51
tobis87MohammadAG: Yes would be nice.21:52
DocScrutinizerFIQ|n900: I'd guess that's not applicable nowadays, as all those should already be optified21:52
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MohammadAGdone,   LD [M]  net/wireless/cfg80211.ko21:52
* MohammadAG waits for dpkg-buildpackage to finish21:52
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SpeedEvilPersonally, I'd quite like to arrange it so that if the emmc breaks, it boots, and you get telephony21:53
SpeedEvilAt least 4 people here have been hit by that21:53
mgedminso you can call tech support and complain?21:53
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MohammadAGI want another OS for only telephony or cameras21:53
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you're sure about the dev/zero part? XP21:53
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no :P21:53
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SpeedEvilmgedmin: So if I drop it, break the MMC, I can call 999 and report my broken leg21:54
MohammadAGleg = MMC solder leg?21:54
SpeedEvilThe one of 8 limbs I use to locomote.21:55
SpeedEvil2, I mean 2.21:55
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mgedmin(psst! most people have four)21:55
* slonopotamus sends curses to powerlaunch author(s)21:55
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil the spider21:56
tobis87So you only changed the makefile and it has still extraversion=-omap1? The modules on it should still be compatible, right?21:56
* SpeedEvil is re-watching Babylon 5.21:56
MohammadAGmgedmin, nope, only 3 here21:56
MohammadAGright leg, left leg, middle leg21:56
* MohammadAG laughs pervertedly21:57
mgedminlimbs are more than just legs21:57
ds3SpeedEvil: who's showing B5?21:57
SpeedEvilds3: edonkey.21:57
slonopotamusds3, mplayer21:57
slonopotamuswell, you got the idea21:57
SpeedEvilds3: I have them on VHS somewhere, so I don't feel very guilty.21:58
slonopotamuspirate vhs of course? :)21:58
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SpeedEvilIt's legitimate to time-shift.21:58
MohammadAGkernel is 2.6.28-omap1, beware!21:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: timeshift like 'watch download now, upload to the internets later' ?21:59
MohammadAGI don't really have to provide GPL code, it's the stock kernel with a changed .config22:00
javispedroMohammadAG: "beware" using the standard kernel?22:00
MohammadAGjavispedro, no, beware as it will overwrite stock kernel :)22:00
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MohammadAGi.e modules in /lib/modules/22:00
* MohammadAG has preboot SSH access22:01
tobis87Thanks :-D22:01
JaffaSpeedEvil: Time shifting 16 years, though?22:01
MohammadAGtobis87, I suggest you install backupmenu22:01
mgedminlegitimate timeshifting is "watch download now, buy DVD at some point in the future (unless I cannot find it, or forget)"22:01
MohammadAGso if something wrong happens you can replace modules easily22:01
SpeedEvilJaffa: It's discriminating against people without eidetic memory.22:01
MohammadAGyou don't have to use the backup features of it, just start up an SSH server22:01
MohammadAGif everything works fine, remove it22:01
JaffaSpeedEvil: ADA/DDA FTW22:02
nandanI am running gcc -Wall -g hello.c -o helloworld in [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~]22:02
nandani got error as22:02
slonopotamusno idea wtf is ada/dda, but ftw, yep22:02
DocScrutinizermgedmin: what I suggested22:02
Jaffaslonopotamus: Americans with Disabilities Act (US) or Disability Discrimination Act (UK)22:02
mgedminaudio CDs had labels like this... something about analog recording/digital mixing/analog mastering?22:03
Jaffaslonopotamus: I'm sure we can claim lack of photographic memory as a (widespread) disability.22:03
Jaffamgedmin: AAD, ADD, DDD :-)22:03
Jaffamgedmin: I've still got a couple which prominently say which22:03
tobis87MohammadAG: Is there not a parameter for the flasher to load the kernel remotely? I could add the cfg80211 manuelly later.22:03
mgedminx86 had ADD and DDD instructions, IIRC22:03
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Jaffamgedmin: 6502 has ADA, IIRC22:03
SpeedEvilmgedmin: DAA says fuzzy memory22:03
SpeedEvilmgedmin: I don't think there was a DDD22:04
MohammadAGtobis87, yes22:04
MohammadAGflasher-3.5 -k zImage -l -b22:04
slonopotamusi hate those of you who decided to use autotools in their projects22:04
javispedroslonopotamus: you hate quite a lot of people then =)22:04
mgedminno DDD, but there was an AAA22:04
slonopotamusjavispedro, it's their fault22:04
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mgedminit would be hard to make an AAA CD22:05
mgedminautotools rule22:05
tobis87Thanks, first time booting a custom kernel...22:05
mgedminnandan, I think you may have created the scratchbox target incorrectly?22:05
mgedminhow did you do it?22:05
nandanhow should i correct scratchbox target22:06
slonopotamusmgedmin, autotools is a slow, ugly, hard-to-debug piece of crap.22:06
slonopotamusespecially libtool22:06
nandanany link22:06
javispedroautotools flame! i am already missing yesterday's gconf flame22:06
MohammadAGtobis87, if you cba to extract22:06
mgedminnobody loves libtool22:06
slonopotamusmgedmin, why the hell everyone uses it then?22:07
nandani googled but not got gud sol.22:07
slonopotamusi think 95% of libtool users can't explain why they need libtool in their project22:07
slonopotamus(because they don't need it actually)22:08
mgedminnandan, I ran under bash, and I think it worked fine...22:08
DocScrutinizerWAAAAAA libtool22:08
* DocScrutinizer headdesks22:08
mgedminit's something like sb-conf st fremantle-armel -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 -t qemu-arm-sb22:08
mgedminor maybe -t qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb222:08
mgedminI really don't remember :/22:08
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I could help you out of that :-P gconf SUCKS!22:09
tobis87MohammadAG:  Is this the same file as the zImage-2.6.28-20101501+0m5.fiasco inside the deb?22:09
javispedroDocScrutinizer: gconf RULES! thanks!22:09
mgedminscratchbox is a bit of a BIG PAIN IN THE posterior22:10
slonopotamusjavispedro, it doesn't solve any real problem.22:10
javispedromgedmin: WHAT? scratchbox rules!22:10
mgedminyeah, well, you go and help nandan then22:10
* javispedro sighs22:10
MohammadAGtobis87, no, you have to extract that22:10
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* mgedmin cackles maniacally22:10
MohammadAGflasher-3.5 -F zImage*.fiasco -u22:10
nandansb-conf st fremantle-armel -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 -t qemu-arm-sb22:11
nandansb-conf: No such CPU-transparency method: 'qemu-arm-sb'.22:11
nandanPerhaps you forgot to select the devkit which includes it.22:11
tobis87so this is the extracted fiasco22:11
slonopotamusw/e. this damn powerlaunch cannot ./ from svn22:11
mgedminsb-conf st fremantle-armel -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 -t qemu-arm-sb -d perl:debian-etch:qemu:doctools:svn:git22:12
mgedmin-d lists devkits22:12
mgedminand then you also need sb-conf rs ... and sb-conf in ...22:12
slonopotamusand after fixing it wants gconf and gtk o_O22:12
mgedminI couldn't be bothered to figure everything out so I gave in and ran the installer script22:12
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DocScrutinizeranybody encountered problems with extras repo during last ~8h ?22:41
DocScrutinizeranybody used HAM update or install successfully during last ~8h?22:43
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*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | | | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. | Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid"22:43
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mgedmintoday I noticed a blinking "there are updates!" icon and updated with HAM showing me no errors22:44
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mgedminyesterday when I noticed a blinking "yay updates!" icon, I could update a few apps, but HAM also complained about extras being not-up-to-date-because-of-an-error22:44
mgedminso I'd say the error that plagued extras yesterday was fixed22:44
DocScrutinizerk, thanks22:44
mgedminor maybe random CDN cache effects made me see it in one network but not in another one22:45
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sivangDocScrutinizer: I tried, but it failed22:47
sivang"some sources could not be fetched" thing22:47
* mgedmin tries now22:47
sivangnow, is there an modest equivalent to tracker-processes -t ?22:47
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mgedminworks fine22:48
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tobis87Loading the custom kernel, causes the device to hang, but it even looks as if it starts charging, blinking led, black background... Would flashing the kernel make a difference?23:23
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ShadowJKfucking sim card23:24
jacekowskiit maybe rapuyama failing23:24
jacekowskimay be*23:24
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ShadowJKyeah :/23:24
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ShadowJKit's only failing when I move around more actively tho23:25
ShadowJKit works fine when I sit still23:26
ShadowJKcould be antenna or sim card holder too I suppose?23:27
SpeedEvilI am calling tmo tomorrow to get a new SIM23:28
RevdKathyGoodnight all23:28
ShadowJKI have a second card with me23:28
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: antenna - nope23:30
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sivangdamn latency..23:31
ShadowJKI've seen the same icon displayed when I've intentionally obstructed signal at random intervals before tho23:32
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sivangis there a way to shutdown evlution data server and modest?23:40
sivangsimialr to tracker-processes -t?23:40
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* sivang thinks of killing the dsme23:41
pupnikdespite zero privacy, i use webmail, cause clients always seem to be headache prone23:41
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DocScrutinizersivang: there are simpler methods to trigger reboot23:42
ShadowJKI hate webmail, I've never found one light enough to not have huge ui latencies due to browser spending cpu rendering23:42
sivangDocScrutinizer: is there wa way then to selectively disable those apps?23:42
ShadowJKor one close enough latency-wise :/23:42
sivangwhy do I need evolution data server if I never use exchange?23:43
sivangShadowJK: well, you can use gmail's imap no?23:43
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sivangif only modest would have liked it...23:43
DocScrutinizerwhat, modest? should be really simple, evo prolly as well23:43
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sivangI really need to test it using after I upgrade to 1.223:43
DocScrutinizercomment them out in init ?23:43
sivangI heard there were a couple performance improvements done to it in 1.223:44
sivangsymbian's mail client is superb with regard to using gmail as an imap backend, on the contrary23:44
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sivangDocScrutinizer: can I like /etc/init.d/modest stop?23:44
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sivangDocScrutinizer: or remove it from inittab and restart?23:44
DocScrutinizerif there's a  /etc/init.d/modest then prolly yes23:45
sivangthere isn't :/23:45
sivangthat's why I was asking.23:45
* sivang recheks23:45
ShadikkaWhy did I read that as /etc/init.d/molest23:45
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jacekowskimodest is kind of a disaster23:47
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keriobecause modest uses your emails in a inappropriate way23:47
jacekowskilike what?23:48
jacekowskilooking them under skirts?23:48
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kerioshow me your headers baby23:48
DocScrutinizersivang: /etc/osso-cud-scripts/*23:48
DocScrutinizersivang: /etc/osso-rfs-scripts/*23:49
* sivang wonders wy it is not in a normal linux std location and naming23:49
* sivang pokes23:49
DocScrutinizersivang: /etc/init.d/as-daemon-023:50
* sivang tomboys23:50
DocScrutinizergenerally 'grep -r modest /etc23:50
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sivangDocScrutinizer: I was just abou to do that before you responsed :-)23:50
sivangjacekowski: why is inspecting the headers taking so long?23:50
jacekowskiwell, i suppose because it's opening 100s of e-mails23:51
jacekowskiand reading part of them23:51
DocScrutinizerPPID of modest is 123:51
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that happens when parent terminates23:51
jacekowskior gets killed23:51
DocScrutinizeror it's started by init23:51
jacekowskithat's an option too23:52
sivangjacekowski: the symbian reader does the same no? it does it in fraction of the time23:52
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jacekowskinope it doesn't23:52
jacekowskii suppose it's using proper database with stuff23:52
sivangjacekowski: it only downloads the headers and not part of the message?23:53
sivangjacekowski: it also notified you of the email before the web ajax updates your browser window, rad!23:53
jacekowskidownloading and reading them every time is different23:53
sivangah  I see23:53
jacekowskisymbian downloads them and then reads them and then it's stored somewhere23:53
jacekowskiand modest as kerio said reads them every fucking time23:54
sivangI see23:54
sivangso sybmian mail diffs for the new stuff only?23:54
jacekowskii'm not sure how symbian is it doing23:54
jacekowskibut i would expect that it reads headers once23:54
sivanganyway, modest was not killed it23:54
jacekowskiand writes them into some sort of index/database file23:54
* ShadowJK never managed to access his email with *any* symbian mail client...23:55
jacekowskiand uses that23:55
sivangjacekowski: when it does that, it provides progress as well - so you don't wait and think what's happenoing23:55
sivangShadowJK: works like a pure charm23:55
sivangfor me at least23:55
sivangbut it appeasr sybmian mail downloads the header quite much faster, or maybe it is just because of the headers arriving in23:56
sivangand you see them23:56
sivangit also takes it tons of time to show the folders23:56
sivanganyway, enough ranting, I wuold be better attempting ptaches23:56
sivangit is suprising how much difference showing progress makes for the user.23:57
sivangit can make certain software look as if it is operating faster than those that do not have a proper progress.23:57
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kerioui *does* matter23:58
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sivangmodest wouldn't die..23:59
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