IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-09-27

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DocScrutinizer51meh, why did I think hald-addon-bme is talking to hald via dbus...00:09
MohammadAGn00b! :P00:10
johnxDocScrutinizer, because that would be a simple and straightforward use of technologies already present :)00:11
johnxalso, HAL is dead00:11
DocScrutinizer51alas not on maemo :-D00:11
DocScrutinizer51or wait, did you just say maemo stinks? :-P00:12
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johnxmeh. linux distros age fast00:16
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johnxbut no, I don't have a particular fondness for maemo as a distro00:16
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h4waiiI'm not sure I'd call Maemo a "distro"00:17
h4waiiBut that's just semantics.00:17
Venemohey guys00:17
johnxh4waii, if it's not a distro, what is it?00:18
* johnx is curious00:18
Venemomy N900's battery is completely fried... it is turned on and the yellow LED doesn't light up when I plug in the charger00:18
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Venemodid I just kill it or it will charge eventually?00:18
h4waiiDid you drain it completely and absolutely?00:18
johnxwait, the device runs and boots?00:19
Venemoit has turned off00:19
h4waiiLeave it plugged in for 4 hours minimum.00:19
Venemosorry, not on, off00:19
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johnxyup. just let it sit there for a bit, before trying anything more drastic00:19
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achipayou might want to try the fridge maneuver00:19
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Venemoso, if I will just leave it on the charger overnight, it will charge?00:20
Venemoachipa: fridge maneuver??? :D what's that?00:20
h4waiiIf not, then come back and we'll diagnose.00:20
johnxVenemo, it might. but until you're sure it won't, there's no point in doing anything more invasive00:20
h4waiifridge/freezer mode is to slow down chem degradation. It's far from useful at this point in time.00:20
Venemowell, I'll just leave it on the charger and see it in the morning then00:21
h4waiiGood plan.00:21
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tybolltmy vibrator seems to have borked real bad00:22
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johnxtybollt, O_o;00:23
tybolltthe device had to be sent from repairshop to factory00:23
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h4waiiA physical issue?00:23
tybolltjohnx: :) You took the bait - eh :)00:23
achipah4waii: not just degradation, actually, brought my N810 back to life...00:23
johnxcouldn't resist :)00:23
tybolltthe vibrator in my n900 stopped working00:24
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tybolltfigured I had installed some app that had borked it00:24
achipaoh, THAT vibrator (phew)00:24
tybolltbut flashed it and still problems00:24
johnxhey oshin :)00:24
oshinhi johnx00:24
h4waiiHELLO FRIEND00:24
oshinanyone know how to auto-mount the second ext3 partition on the microsd?00:25
Venemookay guys, thanks for helping00:25
tybolltand now last week th repair shop told me they had to ship the device off site to fix it00:25
h4waiiinit script?00:25
oshinlike a step by step guide00:25
h4waiiThere is none, AFAIK.00:25
oshinI see.00:25
h4waiiWiki up for upstart / event.d00:26
h4waiiPlease post your file before you commit it, however.00:26
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oshintoo busy..00:29
oshini should be able to just override fstab in some rc?00:30
oshinlike echo something >>00:30
h4waiiAFAIK, fstab is generated at boot00:30
DocScrutinizer51reflashing due to bootloop will keep you real busy00:30
oshini was concerned00:31
oshinmay be just install sysklogd and mount it with a daemo00:32
* oshin feels too far overengineering.00:32
h4waiiupstart is the easiest way. Use it.00:32
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oshinok, thanks.00:32
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oshinuse it to modify fstab right?00:32
oshinjust to make sure since i may remove the microsd all the time.00:33
oshinand want it automounted when i put it back.00:33
h4waiiUse it to mount your filesystem.00:33
tybolltso anyone else had their rabbi^W n900 vibrator bork on them?00:33
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oshinI see. will take a look at that thanks.00:34
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h4waiiUse upstart to mount it on boot, and then modify fstab for auto-mount.00:34
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yaccGuess this is an FAQ, but how does the future of Maemo/N900 look? Any other devices planed? Or is it an dead end?00:34
oshinah ok.00:35
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asj_yacc: the future is called meego00:35
oshinunless new device is resistive, my n900 is irreplaceable00:36
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h4waiiYour N900 will always be irreplaceable.00:36
oshinbut what if someone take it back from the next century when the time machine was invented?00:36
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pupniki was also tempted to comment oshin00:37
h4waiiThe tense in your post just blew my mind.00:37
oshinpardon my none-gnlish!00:37
yaccasj_, ok, so how's the relationship Meego/Maemo, and are there any Meego devices even announced?00:37
asj_yacc: is my name google? ;p00:38
MNZI'm still trying to wrap my head around the person who is going to take it back from the next century when the time machine was invented in the future. Why don't I ever make such cool statements?00:39
oshinI have no idea for what to do with starcraft00:39
oshinsorry, i meant, upstart00:39
oshinit's late here.00:39
MNZdammit you are good00:40
* oshin OTL00:40
h4waiioshin; upstart will allow you to script something on a specific "boot event"00:40
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oshinh4waii, I must create some file in event.d?00:41
h4waiiYou must.00:41
* SpeedEvil imagines that returning erotica.00:41
oshinI see, got the picture.00:41
SpeedEvil #3400:41
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h4waiiThis is most likely safe...00:42
h4waiistart on started hildon-desktop00:42
h4waiistop on starting shutdown00:42
h4waiiconsole none00:42
h4waiimount -t ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p2 /mntpoint00:42
h4waiiend script00:42
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h4waiiYou'll want to change your "event" of start on started hildon-desktop00:42
yaccasj_ well google suggests that Nokia won't be showing anything this year, and Intel has just shown a tablet and smart TV based on Meego, not much of devices, looks to me?00:42
SpeedEvilOr you cheat.00:42
oshinthanks! logged, will try once the torrent finished.00:42
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SpeedEvilAnd you add mount -t ... to a 'queen beecon' on the desktop set to tun once at startup of display.00:43
h4waiiThat's a much safer way, yes.00:43
oshingood idea00:44
oshinor i may use cron for that?00:45
oshinbad idea.00:45
h4waiiYou could use cron and @boot00:45
h4waiifcron is compiled, but it doesn't support @boot00:45
oshinI see.00:45
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asj_yacc: that's all the info I have, plus so close to xmas they wouldn't want to canobalize their n8 sales eh?00:46
h4waiiUp to you. I'd recommend what SpeedEvil said and use QB. I, myself, use upstart.00:46
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sivangpupnik: 'sup? any news about meego-arm with call audio working?00:47
johnxyacc, watch the nokia meego conference coming up in a month or two00:47
* sivang removed a whole lot of crap from the deivce00:47
oshinusing queen beacon and I may have to waste a space for it? or can I tell it to disappeared after use?00:47
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sivangso got more room on rootfs, and I can ssh again and everything. Now to spank off pesky promximityd00:48
SpeedEviloshin: I've not investigated it much. I use a script which mounts, and if it does not mount, as it's mounted, dims the dislpay down tho the hardware minimum level.00:48
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* oshin nods.00:49
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SpeedEvilWhich is significantly below the UI minimum level with brightness-applet00:49
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NirtalDoes anyone know how I can get a boot menu?00:49
kerioSpeedEvil: huh?00:49
kerioa script that's what?00:49
SpeedEvilecho 2 >/sys/class/backlight/acx565akm/brightness00:50
SpeedEvilmakes the screen its hardware minimum brightness00:51
sivangSpeedEvil: ah nice, didn't know you can lower it below the brightness-applet00:51
sivangSpeedEvil: below what it offers, that is00:51
sivangSpeedEvil: you mean below the leftmost knob?00:51
h4waiiThe left most knob is at like 20 pts00:52
SpeedEvilI should compile the brightness widget with patches.00:52
SpeedEvilBut meh.00:52
h4waii2 into brightness is good for running it with FlipClock as a bed-side clock00:52
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: alas any change of ambient light will reset it00:52
SpeedEvilFlipclock is a nice full-screen clock00:52
h4waiiDoc, no. Notifications will, however.00:53
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keriothat... displays the time if you flip the n900?00:53
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I don'tfind it a problem as I typically use it with sipe-brightness-widget - which tends to mostly lock the brightness, and also as I'm using it in total darkness00:53
SpeedEvilkerio: no - it's like an old-fashioned flip-clock00:53
DocScrutinizer51h4waii: no? what's that what I've seen here then? 1min ago00:53
SpeedEvilwith flip-letters00:53
h4waiiI've never experienced that, Doc.00:54
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oshini tried that clock and i thought it was a little ugly.00:54
h4waiiSo theme it.00:55
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oshini use night mode one00:55
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oshinbut i thought it is still ugly.. but i am still using it.00:55
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oshini want to theme it but.. too lazy00:55
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oshini am working as a graphics designer btw.00:56
sivangh4waii: as well as desktop activity00:56
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oshinso a little picky on any already good looking things.00:57
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* sivang continues trying setting up USB networking for Qt Creator, this time on the laptop.00:57
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* sivang crosses fingers the usb networking module won't halt the kernel of 9.04 as well00:57
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oshinany luck so far with the usb host mode?00:58
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oshinI see, just want to mount my camera00:58
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SpeedEvilThere is a technically poor method released that works for many peple.00:58
SpeedEvilIt does not work for some, or with some peripherals.00:58
sivangoshin: that almost sounded like something infobot would say :)00:59
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h4waiiMount your camera?01:00
SpeedEvilAt the moment, it's akin to opening a lock by hitting the surround of the lock with several precisely spaced hammers to make the lock jump open.01:00
oshinh4waii, just copy image from camera01:00
SpeedEvilRather than actually using a key.01:00
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sivangh4waii: yes01:00
* johnx always liked the idea of the eyefi SD cards01:01
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keriojohnx: how do you configure them?01:01
kerioi always wondered01:01
SpeedEvilIt's a mess.01:02
SpeedEvilThey are designed really to upload to a central server.01:02
johnxSpeedEvil, search: eyefi site:hackaday.com01:02
sivangam I using psswitcher unknowingly?01:02
SpeedEvilyou have to fake being the remote server on your local network if you don't want them to do that.01:02
oshineyefi sounds cool01:02
h4waiiDid you install it, knowingly?01:02
johnxsome of the newer ones seem more flexible01:02
sivangand is this mime64 looking chunk normal in a package description?
sivangh4waii: no01:03
sivangh4waii: it is suspiciously coming from extras,so I figured something pulled it in01:03
SpeedEviljohnx: ah - k - this was commenting as of the release a couple of years ago, I haven't looked at nre advances.01:03
sivangh4waii: is it doing anything good?01:03
sivangspeakers on/off ? never thought about it before01:03
johnxSpeedEvil, I think the situation might still be that you need to pretend to be the remote server01:03
h4waiiIt's just an icon.01:03
h4waiisivang - I use PSSwitcher every day.01:03
johnxbut there's at least some docs on it01:04
sivangh4waii: how do you access it from the UI?01:04
johnxif the N900 wasn't my 'main' camera I might be arsed to actually buy one and hack it up01:04
* sivang googles01:04
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: I love the hammering lock analogy, but how'd you come to say those hits are precise? :-D01:04
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h4waiiAccess what?01:04
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SpeedEvilThough I in some ways want a mode with even less interaction. Open shutter, press button, take picture, close shutter - auto-upload.01:05
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: precisely placed does not mean in particularly well-chosen spots.01:05
sivangh4waii: psswitcher, /me tries to find the garage page for it01:05
h4waiiEasily achieved with dbus, rsync/unison01:05
h4waiisivang - it's in Settings at the bottom.01:05
johnxprecise != accurate01:05
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sivangh4waii: yes, I am trying to spot it but nothing, what's it caled?01:07
* sivang marks it for removal01:07
sivangand shortcutd should go away as well01:07
h4waiiIf it's not there, you obviously don't have the package a). installed or b). configured properly.01:07
oshinfcam always freeze my other cameras01:07
oshinthere was a fcamera update last night, didn't try though..01:08
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sivangoff it goes then..01:08
sivangHAM is so slow, good I managed to ssh back in again.01:09
jacekowskisivang: use fapman01:10
sivangmoinmoin nox-01:10
sivangjacekowski: better application manager?01:10
jacekowskifaster application manager01:10
oshinis transmission working with file larger than 4GB?01:10
nox-moin sivang01:11
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nox-oshin, not if they are on fat, tho thats not transmission's fault01:11
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oshinnox-, like.. even the file in the torrent were separated into a few file and all of them smaller.01:12
oshinbut if the total sum of the file were too large, it won't work either.01:12
nox-well _that_ sounds more like a bug01:13
oshinwonder if that was fixed01:13
sivangand finally I have gfind!01:13
oshini am happily using rtorrent over ext301:13
nox-(or a missing _FILE_OFFSET_BITS definition)01:14
nox-ah hm01:14
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nox-oh rtorrent, ok01:14
nox-that i use too (tho not yet on n900)01:14
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oshinit works perfectly.01:15
oshinand I can run it in screen01:15
oshinno need to open any window all the time.01:15
vltRhello all, can anyone help me? is there possibility to boot maemo5 without running hildon at startup?01:16
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h4waiiIf you have to ask that, no.01:16
* h4waii jerk-mode01:16
oshinlike showing good old login prompt?01:17
oshintry ctrl-alt-f1 yet?01:17
sivanganybody care to toss me the gfind line again from today's afternoon?01:17
vltRhow to put f1 on n900?;>01:17
sivanghehe h4waii01:18
oshinyou want to start your own wm?01:18
oshinor x11?01:18
sivangah, I take it you guys got those questions all the time now?:-)01:18
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vltRwell, so maybe you know another solution of my problem: I was playing around with 'theme customizer', and after saving changes its rebooting when starting hildon01:18
vltRstil reboot, reboot, reboot ... ; (01:18
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h4waiiI don't suppose you have bootmenu installed?01:19
vltRi dont01:19
pupniksivang: i haven't made plans to do anything with meego yet01:19
* oshin pats on your shoulder.01:19
oshincan you be quick enough to ssh into it?01:20
h4waiiHe can't even get a UI up.01:20
h4waiiHe won't be able to get connectivity.01:20
oshinah i see..01:20
h4waiiHe can't start USB networking01:20
pupniklike most of the world, i'm just holding my breath, looking down at the yawning drop-off and the train of cars pulling me down into it01:20
oshini didn't know network depends on ui01:20
h4waiiIt doesn't01:20
vltRare you sure there is no any magical shourtcut at startup that would help me? :D01:20
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h4waiibut how do you plan on starting it, with out being able to input anything?01:20
oshinautomatic wifi connection?01:21
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oshinneed to turn on ssh manually?01:21
h4waiiDoes your device connect to the network before the UI is up?01:21
h4waiiSSH is started fairly early in boot seq.01:22
oshinno idea, but my home computer don't start in ui01:22
vltRssh is set to OFF at startup01:22
vltRon my n90001:22
sivangpupnik: no response yet, but this isprobably since it is sunday01:22
h4waiiBecause I can still see my wLAN icon flashing AFTER the UI is present.01:22
johnxvltR, if you could get a command line, would you be able to fix it?01:22
vltRfor sure01:22
oshini see01:22
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johnxtwo things to look at then: maemo rescue on sd card and turning off watchdog with flasher01:22
sivangwhat will happen if I set VDSO = 0 permenantly on a ULV laptop?01:23
h4waiiRescue boot kernel with single user mode?01:23
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vltRthank you, going to look 4 it01:23
johnxsivang, what does the ULV have to do with anything?01:23
sivangjohnx: don't know, just asking..01:24
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johnxah, simple answer then01:24
johnxVDSO will be permanently off on your ULV laptop01:24
sivangjohnx: hehe01:25
javispedroyou will lose some performance when running  32 bits apps01:25
h4waiiIf you bought a ULV laptop, you're already under the bar for performance.01:26
johnxh4waii, performance is relative01:26
sivangh4waii: yeah, it bites me all the time- especially when trying to do more than one thing at a time.01:27
javispedrosivang: don't disable vdso. upgrade scratchbox instead.01:27
h4waiijohnx, fair enough.01:27
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johnxI mean, my desktop was an A64 3000+ until a week or so ago ;)01:28
sivangjavispedro: that's the py installer, how can I upgrade it?01:28
johnxa ULV would compare favorably to that01:28
javispedrojohnx: hey, I too recently upgraded from such a setup :)01:28
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h4waiiInstall a new package?01:28
johnxkerio, ultra low voltage intel processor01:28
h4waiiBuild it from source?01:28
javispedrosivang: no way I know of, read manual setup and do that instead01:28
johnxusually less than 1.6GHz01:28
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sivangulv 410001:29
javispedrosivang: or possibly, disable vdso during install then upgrade sbox and reenable it.01:30
sivangjavispedro: yes, that is what I thought I should do- upgrading is like changing the sources like and apt-get upgrade?01:30
sivangjavispedro: or do I need to build from source?01:30
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sivangjavispedro: 1.3GHz here01:30
sivanger, that was for kerio01:30
javispedrosivang: actually you only need scratchbox-core (one package). so either fetch it from or build it.01:31
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oshinoff, thanks guys01:31
sivangI got overly attracted by the fact it is less than 2kg and can run for almost 5 hours straight on battery under Ubuntu01:31
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mavhcraw GHz numbers don't matter of course01:32
mavhcculv 1.3Ghz will be faster than 1.6GHz atom at most things01:32
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h4waiiMy N900 performs faster than a 1.6GHz Atom01:33
johnxsivang, everything is a compromise. I wouldn't say you made the wrong choice if you carry it all over the place01:33
johnxh4waii, at what clock speed? :P01:33
johnxalso: running the same software?01:33
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sivangjohnx: yes, exactly, it is serving me in conferences and lots of travelling quite nicely01:33
h4waiiMy TI-86 performs faster than a 1.6GHz Atom.01:33
h4waiiSo in short, Atom sucks. Use anything else.01:34
sivangI just wish it wouldn't lose keystrocks while not on charger and doing alot of background processing01:34
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sivangwhich happens both under windows 7 and ubuntu01:34
johnxsivang, tweak the freq scaling01:34
johnxor is it some kind of lower-level thing?01:35
sivangwho knows.. might be the fact that when it does so, the keyboard gets dramatically heated, so this maybe contributing to as well01:35
sivangbut I will try freq scaling, did not think to tweak there01:35
h4waiiSpin your drive down more.01:36
h4waiiThat's what's causing your heat.01:36
sivangh4waii: where do I tweak it in 9.04?01:36
johnxand let it run at faster speeds on battery. remember "race to idle"01:36
opdf2anyone familiar with flags in the el-v1.db, where sms is stored?01:36
sivangjohnx: well, not really, it is by far the most reliable piece of machine I got so far.01:36
johnxopdf2, 'flags'? such as?01:37
h4waiiopdf2 - which flags?01:37
opdf2flags that indicate SMS failed, pending, permanent error etc01:37
h4waiiGood question. I have no idea.01:38
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opdf2I opened the db in an sqllite browser, I can't figure it out01:38
h4waiiExport it and take a look? lol01:38
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johnxopdf2, do you have experience in databases in general?01:39
opdf2No not really01:39
h4waiiIt wouldn't be a hard entry to see, johnx01:39
sivangjohnx: right, it seems to be running on max freq on battery, but adding the applet errored that I won't b able to change it either due to configuration or lack of support01:40
h4waiisivang - BIOS option?01:40
opdf2Here's the problem: I can send and receive SMS fine. My received texts show up fine in Conversations app01:40
johnxsivang, upgrade to a newer release. :) you know you want to01:40
opdf2but sending out does not show up in the app, although the party receives it01:41
johnxthere's a Flags table01:41
johnxthat gets my vote01:41
sivangjohnx: of the laptop? :)01:41
sivangh4waii: I will check, thanks for the tips h4waii  and johnx01:41
h4waiiopdf2 - sounds like the DB is corrupt. Does this happen for only one recipient or all?01:41
sivangh4waii: I have now great storke responsiveness, as the SDK installation process makes it humm and humm01:42
h4waiiJust as I imagine.01:42
h4waiiLet me tell you what happened01:42
h4waiiA message came in while you were deleting a different message?01:42
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sivangit also comes with some sort of a firmware linux version that has firefox and stuff01:42
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sivanguseful for recovery and use as an internet point without booting an OS01:43
opdf2No. It began when it claimed an SMS was still pending01:43
h4waiiIf you remove the conversation entry, does it persist?01:43
opdf2but the SMS was not pending because the party actually recevied it01:43
pupnikthanks sivang, very kind01:43
h4waiiThe entire conversation with the person, that is.01:44
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opdf2I can always do that, but I kinda wanted to figure out what was wrong01:44
opdf2I tried restoring a backup db, but it happened again01:44
h4waiiSome entries in your database as misaligned.01:44
h4waiiWithout hand tagging every single entry, I'm not sure of a better way to fix it - apart from blowing it all away.01:45
sivangpupnik: I'm trying as I am interested, but couldn't find anything concrete. It can't be that community will be limited to plain app development, it must be more invovled in the core.01:45
h4waiiand I don't just mean the single conversation thread. I'm talking the entire database.01:46
sivangpupnik: and "fetch the source" or twiddle through the bug list with the hope the something is not "NB" or to guess at who's working on it or not.01:46
sivangpupnik: does not count enough as community engagement, at least for me. But that's an issue of early projects, it was the same in Ubuntu as well when we started with it.01:46
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opdf2Yeah, I probably will do that01:47
pupnikwell said sivang01:47
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opdf2although I want to know why it happened01:47
h4waiiI chalk it up to janky-ness.01:48
pupniki'm quite committed to the meego phone as a user, not sure about porting yet. i'm definitely concerned about the resources being invested in getting pulse up to scratch.01:49
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sivangpupnik: yes, I recall the threads about the work it might require ontop of what was invested alrady...01:50
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luke-jr__so I need a babyfeeding chart app like now :p01:52
pupniksivang: are there developers who are already up-to-speed with pulseaudio internals, who could be brought-in to do project-work?  T01:52
luke-jr__does anything useful exist, or do I need to write my own?01:52
SpeedEvilluke-jr: there is one01:52
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: I vaguely recall testing it prefunctrraliy.01:52
SpeedEvilDaddies little helper / dlh?01:53
SpeedEvilIf your baby bursts, remember to submit a bug.01:53
sivangSpeedEvil: ?01:54
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sivangpupnik: google says no :/01:55
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SpeedEvilroute -n|grep|awk '{print $1}' |xargs -n 1 route del01:57
SpeedEvilI should open eyes before hitting return.01:57
javispedroxargs: command not found01:58
sivangpupnik: found that when googling for the pulseaudio principle developer(s) -
nox-oh pupnik you got a meego device?01:59
SpeedEvilThere are no meego devices.01:59
SpeedEvilThere are devices that can run meego.01:59
SpeedEvilThere is as yet no native meego device.01:59
nox-heh ok im just wondering since he said his n900 died... :)02:00
nox-or shall i say :(02:00
SpeedEvilpupnik: :(02:00
javispedroSpeedEvil: Aava02:00
SpeedEviljavispedro: Bless you.02:00
pupniki love the way the n8 and leaked prototypes look.  the lust-force is strong with this one02:00
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: … who weighs the baby every feeding?02:01
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I assumed that was the sort of thing you were looking for.02:01
sivangSpeedEvil: hehe02:01
* sivang rotfls02:01
pupnikcan't you install a baby stomach reserve meter that rings the low-battery bell when it's hungry?02:01
SpeedEvilIt's the only thing that comes to mind, anyway.02:01
SpeedEvilpupnik: I want that.02:01
SpeedEvilpupnik: Well - a similar device.02:02
SpeedEvilpupnik: But transcutaneous glucometry is hard.02:02
pupnikmaybe an insulin alarm02:02
nox-haha pupnik02:02
SpeedEvilI don't have diabetes - I'd just like to keep my blood-glucose a bit more stable than it is at times.02:02
pupnikbluteooth -- why not nox?02:02
sivangSpeedEvil: you have a baby?02:02
javispedropupnik: your n900 broke down? :(02:02
nox-.oO(we are borg, you will be assimilated...)02:03
pupnikyeah few months ago02:03
SpeedEvilsivang: Unfortunately, barring really wierd ninjas, no.02:03
sivangSpeedEvil: so what's all of that feeding talk?02:03
* sivang wants in the joke02:03
luke-jr__sivang: need a useful app to track baby feeding02:03
sivangluke-jr__: ah, nice02:03
luke-jr__ideally in tonal tims02:04
pupnikyou know what i should do - these orphans, javispedro - the crude games that need the simple gui work to make them fun02:04
SpeedEvilluke-jr: you mean you just want to set a ml/day - and total it? Does DLH actually require daily weights?02:04
pupnikparticularly ones with no upstream updates :)02:04
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I am unsure if 'siggy' - a budget tracking app - can do that.02:05
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: start time, end time, ml made, ml consumed, totals02:05
SpeedEvilah - it can't02:05
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: it doesn't seem to REQUIRE weight…02:05
luke-jr__but it doesn't hide it etiher02:05
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luke-jr__which means I need to horizontal scroll02:05
SpeedEvilml made?02:05
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luke-jr__oz made02:05
sivangbabies are hard to maintain02:05
SpeedEvilwhy would you keep track of that?02:05
luke-jr__who uses ml?02:05
sivangand they don't come with manuals02:05
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I use ml/g exclusively when cooking.02:06
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I have a 0.1g/1000g scale I use.02:06
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sivangso sdk installer hangs, and "Executer accepted request to abort" but is lying02:06
SpeedEvil(it boots faster than my regular kitrchen scale)02:06
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luke-jr__SpeedEvil: bottles are proof SI is broken IMO02:06
sivangSpeedEvil: for cooking? wawo, I just pour indgridants according to "eye" measure02:07
luke-jr__measurements are always done in 10 ml. Tell me why they're not using cl?02:07
luke-jr__and in the rare exceptions, they always use x5 ml02:07
SpeedEvilsivang: I'm also trying to accurately ytack calorie intake - for diet purposes.02:07
luke-jr__never x1,x2,x3,x4,x6,x7,x8,x902:07
SpeedEvilsivang: Though I do find the .1g handy for consistrent spicing.02:07
SpeedEvilluke-jr: you forgot 454ml and stuff.02:07
sivangSpeedEvil: maybe if you are dealing with very dominant spices02:07
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luke-jr__SpeedEvil: never seen that used for bottles02:08
SpeedEvilluke-jr: imperial equivalents.02:08
sivangSpeedEvil: for diet it makes sense , if you manage do , drop a line02:08
SpeedEvilMaybe they've gone hard-metric now.02:08
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: no, bottles are generally measured in oz02:08
SpeedEvilsivang: - a sucky web 2.0 site - but it is helpful.02:08
luke-jr__the ones I have with ml only have multiples of 1002:08
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javispedropupnik: yeah. they're also often the funniest ones02:08
SpeedEvil - my weight over the past 12mo ish.02:09
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javispedropupnik: btw I missed what happened to your n900 (or I forgot :P)02:09
pupniksome water splashed on the keyboard and apparently crept-in unnoticed02:09
pupnikor un-prevented02:09
pupnikat that point the speakers were already dying though02:10
sivangSpeedEvil: nice02:10
pupnikand the keyboard was worn-through :D02:10
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: more useless units?02:10
sivangSpeedEvil: how tall are you?02:10
SpeedEvilsivang: Nothing really complex, just portion control, and thinking a bit more about what I actually like to eat vs what I do. For example, I used to have a big bowl of cereal for breakfast. I actually prefer what I'm currently having - which is date porridge.02:11
javispedropupnik: :(02:11
javispedroI had to rma mine once because of a broken speaker02:11
SpeedEvilluke-jr: BMI is somewhat odd yes.02:11
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luke-jr__SpeedEvil: Kg02:11
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luke-jr__SpeedEvil: nobody knows what Kg actually means02:11
SpeedEvilsivang: Throw oats, milk, dates in a small glass bowl onto the way to the toilet, hit nuke for 3 mins, and it's lovely and hot when I'm done.02:12
sivangSpeedEvil: I'm 32 at my BMI last time I checked, and strictly speaking it is obeys02:12
luke-jr__gotta go google it and find out what it is in lbs02:12
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I measure everything in kg.02:12
pupnikjavispedro: it's a very good thing i didn't release anything that bypassed XPROT02:12
javispedropupnik: yeah, being more careful now02:12
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: in any case, what's your weight in normal lbs?02:12
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javispedropupnik: even though I have to wonder if "sudden mute speaker syndrome" is really caused by that02:12
SpeedEvil!math 2.2*77.502:12
pupniklbs just sounds like blubber when you speak it out02:13
sivangSpeedEvil: I reduced to 2 meals per day, mostly, almost no carbs, no milk, mostly lean protein and meat occasionally but it is slow...02:13
SpeedEvilsivang: I diddn't.02:13
luke-jr__fatty. :P02:13
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SpeedEvilsivang: The early portion of that graph - when I was losing 1Kg/week - 10% of my calories was coming from chocolate.02:13
SpeedEvilBecause I like chocolate.02:13
luke-jr__maybe I should eat some chocolate02:13
luke-jr__I weigh 100-110 lbs02:14
sivangSpeedEvil: well, it also has lots of sugar which can contribute to calorie burning, but so is coffee and I drink a lot of it02:14
luke-jr__95 if I get lazy02:14
SpeedEvilluke-jr: A whole lot less than I did.02:14
pupnikjavispedro: is there anything interesting you are doing with performance / libs / emus / gfx?02:14
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I'm aiming at maybe 10lb down from where I am now, but it's not urgent.02:14
sivangSpeedEvil: the problem with the sugar in modern chocholate is that it strains your pancreas and that's not good.02:15
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: I'm convinced that no matter what my intake is, I won't break 11002:15
sivangluke-jr__: some people are blessed genetically02:15
* sivang is amazed at how cool it is to be offtopic here.02:15
SpeedEvilluke-jr: I bet that is not the case.02:16
javispedropupnik: no, nothing at the moment. on tmo someone is porting gbSP02:16
* SpeedEvil feeds luke-jr 800 sticks of butter.02:16
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luke-jr__SpeedEvil: 110 was with me making active efforts to gain weight02:16
SpeedEvilluke-jr: are you very active?02:16
SpeedEvilsivang: yeah - well - eaten in moderation, nothing is bad.02:17
johnxluke-jr, don't worry. in another couple years your metabolism will take a nose dive and you'll gain 30lbs overnight right around your middle :P02:17
sivangSpeedEvil: that's what I'm doing right now. I had a bad period after my ex left but now I'm really cutting down on the amount02:17
pupnikjavispedro: could a texel/surface shader be applied to the entire maemo5 desktop02:17
javispedropupnik: that is already done by hildon-desktop (it's the "blur effect")02:18
javispedroso yes, but you have to patch hildon-desktop02:18
pupnikok can you trigger it.. aarrrrrr02:18
sivangjohnx: yes, that is something people do not understand- time passes by we have to prepare for when things change and break over time, and as one of my physicians once said "They will break!"02:18
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: even iocane powder?02:18
pupniki wanted an accelerometer thing that blurred and sharpened tablet depending on how far away you hold it02:18
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johnxsivang, the other thing people don't understand is how much harder it is to lose / gain weight depending on your life-style and what kind of food is available around you02:19
sivangjohnx: especially to loose, I gained the weight quite easily :-(02:20
johnxI was 30lbs less a bit over a year ago when I had no car and was trying to save money on food ;)02:20
SpeedEvil1sivang: I found the above website of use anyway. I basically haven't gone for diet  food route, but portion control. For example, roast pork, potatos, apple-sauce with nice gravy. Is lots nicer than a couple of bowls of no-sugar muesli.02:20
sivangSpeedEvil1: I hate muesly :-)02:20
* johnx actually likes museli and yogurt02:20
sivangSpeedEvil1: it is terrible02:20
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sivangjohnx: I used to like Yogurt until I realized milk so somewhat evil ;)02:21
sivangSpeedEvil: but true, it is impractical to try and eat what you won't as yourself, that's why people fail at diests all the time02:21
johnxvegetarian here, so I need the protein/calcium from it anyways02:21
sivangjohnx: it just makes me unwell, others are fine with :)02:21
johnxah, bummer02:22
pupnikyou carry more bacteria in your gut than human cells in your body02:22
* luke-jr__ eats some extra meat to make up for sivang02:22
sivangpupnik: and more nerves in your brain :)02:22
johnxluke-jr, wrong nick :)02:22
sivangluke-jr__: hheh02:22
luke-jr__does'nt matter really tho02:23
sivangpupnik: than in your brain :)02:23
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: that's an awesome idea. Adopt a vegan.02:23
luke-jr__SpeedEvil: LOL02:23
SpeedEvilGive them a list of the extra meat you've eaten for them.02:23
sivangmy vegan friends at work claim they get everything from plants02:23
johnxluke-jr, doesn't matter anyways. It's a proof of concept. BTW, I'll make sure to use more proprietary software to make up for you :>02:23
luke-jr__johnx: I am now eating chicken tenders for you.02:23
sivangso they don't touch eggs or milk02:23
johnxluke-jr, using vmware right now :D02:24
luke-jr__johnx: go ahead, your loss :D02:24
pupniktoday, a little bird fell down into a sticky mouse trap.  as i tried to pull its legs off i broke them.02:24
sivanggotta get sleep02:24
sivangand usb networking was no go today as well :/02:24
pupnikgood night sivang02:24
luke-jr__pupnik: feed it to johnx02:24
sivangnight pupnik02:24
johnx'night pupnik02:24
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pupnikwhat options are there to do an OSM style FOSS 'mobile craigslist'?02:25
johnxmobile craigslist? like searchable my lat/lon?02:26
pupnikyeah, and very convenient to add items with photo02:26
pupnikno name needed - just ping the userid hash if you want to arrange a negotiation/purchase02:27
johnx"send to ..." "moblist"02:27
pupnikdata structures ... key by lat/lon stored in a BSP tree?02:28
johnxBSP tree?02:29
pupnikbinary space partition02:29
johnxdon't really think that needs to be over-engineered02:29
johnxwhat about like an RSS feed or something?02:29
pupniki am in the habit of finding the potentially sticky data structure questions early-on02:30
pupnikrss feed doesn't address my questions about how to partition and access the information02:31
pupniki guess any simple database02:31
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johnxerr, partition?02:32
johnxI kinda figure there was a PHP server side bit that you queried with a URL and got back an RSS feed that matched what you wanted?02:32
johnxor is the idea to be some kind of peer-to-peer thing?02:32
jarkkomif you work with that kind of data just use postgresql or any database GIS extensions02:33
vltRyuuupy, fresh reflashed n900;)02:33
johnxbeen writing some PHP/mysql stuff lately. "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail"02:33
pupnikwell it goes to show how weirdly i think about things in the first few minubtes johnx02:33
jarkkombecause then you can do area searches and it's probably better optimized than any homegrown system02:33
johnx"database GIS extensions" as in stuff at the SQL level?02:34
jarkkomlook up PostGIS for example02:34
* johnx RTFMs02:34
jarkkombasically it includes data types and query extensions useful for geospatial data02:34
pupnikthanks jarkkom02:34
johnxthanks jarkkom02:34
johnxwe should have been using this at work for the last year ...02:35
pupnikmaybe this makes more sense as a 'web app'02:35
pupnikor a simple website with a post form for the image upload02:35
johnxpupnik, web app + native client02:35
johnxalways a good approach02:35
johnxwider audience is necessary for this kind of thing02:36
pupnikwhat about a serverless design02:36
pupnikdownload the app and enter your forsale items02:36
johnxwould you PUSH data to other peers?02:36
pupnikyou could look for peers physically nearby with wifi or bluetooth02:37
pupnik'i also have item for sale'02:37
johnxit feels like something like that should sit one level down02:37
johnxlike some kind of library for finding other devices locally and querying $something02:38
pupniksomething that lets you broadcast a service type02:38
pupnikor advertise rather02:39
pupnik"hi! i belong to tux-swingers!  ask me about my wife!"02:39
johnxso would that be listening servers and a broadcast query02:39
johnxor periodic broadcast advertise?02:39
pupnikcould abuse the essid to advertise a service type or multiple ones02:40
johnxwifi ad-hoc?02:40
johnxthat's not very power friendly02:40
johnxalso interferes with a connection to a base-station02:41
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pupniki just have this image of broadcast/discover with a decentralized, no-administration, network02:41
SpeedEvilUnless you have a very high density of users, p2p does not work02:41
johnxit would work really well at a meego convention though ;)02:42
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javispedroand when you have a very high density of users, p2p doesn't scale well =)02:45
johnxpupnik, I think there are two ideas here: 1) a more location aware craigslist 2) a way to locate other mobile phones that are just beyond visual range in an urban/indoor environment02:45
pupnikyes good point02:46
pupnik2) locate users with other mobile phones who are making some kind of offer related to physical proximmity02:46
SpeedEvilFor BVR use, I don't think bluetooth quite cuts it.02:47
javispedroand countless other companies that want to do similar things02:47
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johnxalso reminds me of the link-local jabber thing02:48
johnxdoes that actually work, BTW?02:48
javispedrothat's something that looks quite well on powerpoints but I will personally never understand it02:48
SpeedEvil got mentioned by Steven Fry on last weeks Top Gear.02:48
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pupnik"Grinder - Meet Guys Near You"???02:59
johnxwelcome to the future02:59
SpeedEvilpupnik: I saw it on Top Gear.03:01
* SpeedEvil is not interested in guys that way. :)03:01
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pupnikwell that's pretty much the type of thing we'll see more i guess03:03
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sivangright, so I can let if off ;)03:03
sivangwhats' the normal stock free space on rootfs?03:03
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sivangI'm at 2.6M03:04
SpeedEvilThat's a bit low.03:04
SpeedEvilDo you have gnu find installed?03:04
sivangI do now, yes03:04
SpeedEvilgfind / -size +100k -ctime -1003:04
SpeedEvilWil tell you what files over 100K have been touched in the last 10 days.03:05
sivangSpeedEvil: ah, I thought finding +2M is good enough03:05
SpeedEvilgfind / -mount03:05
SpeedEvilor that03:05
sivangSpeedEvil: right, I already added this to not wait forever03:05
SpeedEvilgdu -x /|sort -nk103:06
sivangI thought apt-get clean would have cleared all the dpkg cruft03:06
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sivangSpeedEvil: hmm, no gdu03:07
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SpeedEvilthe busybox du does not support -x alas03:07
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SpeedEvil- stay in one filesystem03:07
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sivangi'll install it, just a ec03:08
SpeedEvilActrually - it does03:08
SpeedEvilso just du -x|sort -nk103:08
sivangI wish it had maxdepth03:08
SpeedEvilthat's why sort is handy03:08
sivangyes, it is03:09
sivangI wish HAM would allow to mark more than one app for removal03:12
sivangSpeedEvil: it is possible to reflash the whole device? I want to learn to do that.03:12
sivangSpeedEvil: including the eMMC03:12
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infobotmethinks flashing is
sivangSpeedEvil: even though the tool is not open source03:12
javispedrohah, too late!03:12
sivangthanks guys03:12
johnxyup, javispedro. infobot PMed me to tell me I was too late actually :)03:13
infobot:), javispedro03:13
sivangit does that?!03:13
sivanglike a female, indeed.03:13
sivang"Too late, scare off me!"03:14
* sivang did not mean to be unpolitically correct.03:17
jpinx-eeepcor politically incorrect?03:18
javispedro"sivang: you seem to have some misconceptions about those 'females'. Maybe you'd like to try the previously mentioned iphone application?"03:18
* sivang apologizes to the ladies, I guess one very neat death experience cant count for all 'em03:18
sivangjavispedro: remind me of it?03:18
sivangjavispedro: I was fighting with splunk and rsyslog when you guys discussed it03:19
jpinx-eeepcsivang nearly killed a lady ?  :/03:19
sivangjavispedro: heh03:19
sivangjavispedro: other way around,03:19
sivangjpinx-eeepc: she always made me die03:19
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sivangjpinx-eeepc: in a non physically violent way03:19
sivangshe's married with children now, so all is good :)03:20
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sivangwhy do themes get stored to rootfs?!03:20
jpinx-eeepcconsider yourself reprieved ;)03:20
johnxsivang, where on the rootfs?03:20
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sivangerr, I just rmeoved it.. let me backlog the terminal03:21
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johnxsivang, ls -ld /usr/share/themes03:23
sivangivisteel was there as well03:23
sivangand I wiped it and earned a lot back03:23
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johnxsivang, kthx. I got it. now run the command I gave you03:25
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sivangjohnx: oops repeated last paste, stupid buffer03:26
johnxyou don't need to paste the result, just read it03:26
johnxI already know what the answer is03:27
sivangjohnx: 67203:27
sivangjohnx: what does all this mean?03:27
johnxwhere the heck did you get 672?03:28
sivangthat's the size...03:29
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johnxif you were to run the command I gave you, you'd realize it was a symlink to /opt, ie, not on the rootfs03:30
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johnxnow see, that's *not* the command I gave03:31
johnxthe trailing '/' makes a difference03:31
sivangbad bad me03:31
johnx:) no problem03:31
johnxI thought you were being difficult on purpose03:31
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sivangsorry :/ /me retries03:32
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johnxsorry to be stubborn, but I'd much rather hand out the tools than the results ;)03:32
johnxwell that's special03:33
johnxare you on PR1.2?03:33
sivangno, I am trying to delete stuff to be able to go there :)03:33
sivangthere are some stuff on /opt/themes though03:34
sivangI guess thopse were properly optified03:34
sivangin contrast to stock stuff03:34
johnxsorry for being stubborn earlier :)03:34
sivangwhat'\s more interesting is that space in rootfs goes a bit up, then down again and up to the same size03:34
sivangthorugh apt operations03:34
johnxif you use apt-get from the CLI a lot, remember to use apt-get clean03:35
sivangjohnx: do it al the time, maybe it is writeback'd ?03:35
johnxit only applies to packages you've installed, but it can make a big difference03:35
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sivangI see, btw, anything I could get rid off fire and forget way from this:
johnxare those your biggest files?03:37
johnxwell, you could apt-get remove rsync03:37
sivangyes, but I need it to back up the rootfs and eMMC before reflashing.., what about the .bin cache files from apt?03:38
sivangand the the ipyhon is obvious03:38
sivangjohnx: seems like it (biggest files)03:38
johnxthe apt files will just get remade when you try to upgrade03:38
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sivanghow is the one stock theme called?03:40
sivangI want to remove everything else03:40
johnxthere are two stock themes, I think03:40
johnxjust use dpkg -S /path/to/theme03:41
johnxshould tell you which package owns it03:41
johnxI just ended up backing up and reflashing03:41
johnxseemed to work out ok for me03:41
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sivangI'll do that and that's it I guess...03:44
sivangnice, ipython removed but all its file are there- shouldn't havenever installed something liekthat onto the tablet03:44
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johnxuse dpkg -S on the files03:44
johnxmaybe they're owned by a related package03:44
sivangjohnx: will do03:45
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sivangjohnx: I'm getting addicted to this platform- the more I twiddle with it, the more fascinating it gets.03:46
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johnxit'll be even nicer in meego I think03:46
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johnxshould be a bit closer to a 'regular' linux distro03:46
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nox-meego doesnt use apt tho, right?03:50
johnxit uses yum03:50
johnxI've resolved to give it a fair chance03:51
sivangjohnx: yes, that what I liked in it the first place. It is my phone, but actually is a debian on the go03:51
sivangthere's is no much point in favoring one packaging scheme to another these03:51
sivangyum is quite usable for experience03:51
sivangand caters for an apt experience on centos and fedoras03:52
sivangfor me at leas,03:52
johnxyup, if I didn't give it a fair chance, it would just be me being lazy03:52
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sivangI don't get what's more eating the space on rootfs03:54
sivanganyway, really time to sleeping- I've past my daylight zone03:55
sivangnight all, again03:55
johnx'night sivang03:55
sivangnight johnx , thanks so much for you help.03:55
johnxno problem. good luck :)03:55
sivangwill need it ,thanks03:56
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b-man`johnx, - it'd be awesome to get this going on the N900 :)03:57
b-man`it would be an interesting experiment03:58
johnxit would03:58
* SpeedEvil ponders the app he most wants on n900.03:58
SpeedEvilGod continuous speech recognition is high on there.03:58
johnxb-man`, at this point, I don't think I could even offer you many hints on where to start that you don't already know :D03:59
nox-.oO(why do .jp sites always(?) use strange fonts...)04:00
johnxnox-, so your question is "Why do Japanese sites use Japanese fonts?"04:01
SpeedEvilnox-: Because they're lazy, and won't learn english.04:01
nox-nah i meant for english text04:01
johnxthe fonts look normal here04:01
johnxI think it's your config04:01
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nox-well the spacing is pretty wide04:02
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johnxyeah, that's because they're using the latin part of a japanese font04:02
nox-ah :)04:02
johnxthough, I don't see it on the site that was linked, so I think it's a problem with the font your browser is choosing04:03
nox-heh ok04:03
johnxI do remember seeing it in the past though04:03
nox-maybe i need to install more japanese fonts then :)04:03
SpeedEvilThe font is not terrible here, it's not great thoguh.04:03
nox-yeah it just looks like monospace with wide spacing04:04
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johnxpupnik, still thinking about that mobile craigslist thing. were you thinking about it in passing, or were you planning to actually make it?04:11
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SpeedEvilEbay and craigslist and amazon have fundamental problems with being functional monopolies.04:19
SpeedEvilIt's damn hard.04:19
SpeedEvilTo break into an established market04:20
johnxI don't have a problem working with craigslist, but they don't have an API04:23
johnxand I've heard they purposefully make changes to keep people from scraping their site04:23
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doc|homemobile craigslist?04:41
johnxdoc|home, something like that04:41
doc|homehow does that work?04:41
johnxmainly thinking about ways to get better location data into craigslist postings04:42
johnxand then act on that data to return better results to the person searching04:42
luke-jr__johnx: no, Unicode annoyingly defines separate codepoints to wide Latin chars04:42
luke-jr__which are often used in Japanese software04:42
johnxsuch as input systems04:43
doc|homejohnx: is accuracy of location really that important? Generally if it's in the same city most people are happy.04:43
johnxdoc|home, kinda. I'm willing to drive 5mi to save $30, but I'm not willing to drive 50mi04:43 covers an area centered around seattle that extends 50mi+ in all directions04:44
doc|homefair enough then04:44
johnxand maybe I'd like to pic up something really common on the way home from work, but if there isn't one near me I'd rather buy it new than drive too far from it04:45
johnxs/from it/for it04:45
SpeedEvilCraigslist is basically fail in my part of the world.04:46
johnxSpeedEvil, is there a regional site that works better?04:47
johnxthen give it time04:47
SpeedEvilFor example - the largest nearby town - 140k population.04:47
SpeedEvilCategory 'appliances'04:47
SpeedEvilThere are two listed.04:47
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doc|homemaybe people are very fond of their older style appliances :)04:48
johnxis there a good market for used appliances?04:49
johnxit's also possible that 'appliances' just isn't something people sell used to each other all that often04:49
luke-jr__try 'refrigerator'04:51
johnxThough really, hitting critical mass for something like a classified site takes a long time04:51
SpeedEvilAppliances for example with a 25 mile range has 130 hits on ebay04:51
johnxah, then ebay is just more popular in your area04:53
johnxdo you think it has to do with localization?04:53
luke-jr__I think it has to do with pizza.04:53
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SpeedEvilcraigslist was basically US only for a long time04:54
johnxeven now, it seems like (for example) is mostly used by English speakers04:55
johnxand none of the interface is localized04:55
johnxthat's a really unfortunate omission, IMHO04:55
SpeedEvilIt's not a localisation issue.04:55
SpeedEvilIn scotland, we can mostly understand americans.04:56
johnxI didn't know where you were :)04:56
jpinx-eeepcSpeedEvil: ya reckon?04:57
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SpeedEvilThe words at least. :)04:59
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*** povbot has joined #maemo05:13 [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support:
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andax<SpeedEvil>nox-: Because they're lazy, and won't learn english. <- unfortunately it is the opposite: computer scientists dont seem to learn something else than *"%&&/(*! english05:27
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johnxandax, nah. lot's learn C and Python and Scheme and Java, not just English05:30
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SpeedEvilandax: Also - you forgot the closing bracket and quote.05:32
andaxi learned some C too, because it seems there is no other language that works, which doesnt change the fact that some lines of the language looks like ASCII-vomitus :-)05:32
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andaxthough, i believe C could be much nicer with more different characters than ASCII characters in its ontology and nomenclature.05:48
* pupnik slingshots andax back to neptune05:48
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andaxSo that it could be called Überlanguage *g*05:49
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johnx26 letters ought to be enough for anyone05:50
johnxserial > parallel05:50
andaxjohnx, but only because keyboards have to be tiny today :-)05:52
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johnxis this more to your liking?
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andaxjohnx, pretty cool, blinking lights support was even better at that times :)05:57
johnxand quite portable too! :D05:57
andaxjohnx, i like that one as well
johnxlooks like my car's electrical system05:57
johnxexcept smaller keyboard ...05:58
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andaxit is a moog synthesizer06:02
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andaxpupnik, why neptune? its hot as hell here *sweat*06:12
pupnikcause Uranus was full06:14
* pupnik ducks06:14
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luke-jr__andax: I agree.06:24
luke-jr__johnx: not all characters are letters06:24
luke-jr__for example, >=06:24
luke-jr__could be ≥06:24
luke-jr__and == could be ≡06:25
johnxserial > parallel06:25
johnxI never said otherwise06:25
johnxwait, I bet your an emacs guy :)06:25
infobotjohnx meant: wait, I bet you're an emacs guy :)06:26
johnxhm. I don't appear to have a font installed that deals with that ...06:26
luke-jr__johnx: and there's only two places to get one :D06:26
luke-jr__one is me. the other is Armagetron Advanced.06:27
luke-jr__though the latter case requires trunk06:27
johnxand the question is: do I care enough to ... sorry got distracted, going back to what I was doing06:27
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andaxthanks luke-jr (and whow, i can see them correctly)06:29
luke-jr__andax: you got Arma trunk? :p06:31
andaxI guess no. Which ARMA?
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andax"Arma, an extinct Choco language" lol06:36
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johnxmmmm, chocolate flavored languages06:36
andaxawesome :)06:37
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luke-jr__andax: Armagetron Advanced06:56
luke-jr__andax: besides me, AA trunk is the only source for a font to display them correctly ;P06:56
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deltfinally have the USB cable for my n810 .... plugging it to the PC has no effect without turning the n810 on?08:26
deltand when i do turn it on, it just keeps rebooting like it does not connected, except a blue "usb" logo is visible in the upper right for a second08:27
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deltonly way to get it to stop rebooting is to take out the battery08:30
jogawhat happened to it?08:30
delti moved stuff from /usr/share to the 2gb partition, and forgot it was a WINDOWZ PARTITION.08:31
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deltso... no symlinks, no UID/GID on files, no rwx flags, ......08:32
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deltfinally have the USB cable for my n810 .... plugging it to the PC has no effect without turning the n810 on?08:32
deltand when i do turn it on, it just keeps rebooting like it does not connected, except a blue "usb" logo is visible in the upper right for a second08:32
tank-manso you want to flash it or what?08:32
deltthen it shows a white screen with black rectangles in upper right and lower left, then reboots08:32
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deltno, i just want to mount the partitions from a PC and fix it08:33
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tank-manif its off, nothing will show up on yoru pc08:33
deltmove the stuff back, see if that helps, if not, see if i can put the uid/perms/etc. the way they were08:34
deltotherwise at least keep a backup of stuff thats on it now08:34
johnxflash a rescue kernel to it and boot from micro sd08:34
deltdun have a SD card :(08:35
johnxthe linux kernel is what provides the logic to let a PC access the file system08:35
deltok.... so what fucktard decided that a few things missing from /usr/share makes the device unusable?08:36
johnxturn off watchdog, see if it boots then08:36
deltuh, how?08:36
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delttried holding down about every combination of buttons while turning it on08:37
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joga(it's an n810)08:37
deltn810 here, not n90008:37
deltsame still works?08:37
tank-manlol ...08:37
johnxyes, googling still works if you have an N81008:38
deltok, found this
deltwhich i think i already read, and wasn't very useful.08:39
jogaI found this
deltoh, what is "r&d mode"08:39
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deltah, "flasher" ... source code available?08:40
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deltso wtf would trigger the watchdog to reboot anyway... kernel panic?08:42
johnxlots of things08:42
deltbecause of /usr/share/locale and /usr/share/( stuff) missing???08:42
johnxthe gtk theme08:42
johnxicons, that sort of thing08:42
deltso how do i see the standard kernel bootup?08:43
johnxflash modified initrd or kernel08:43
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delthow do i flash just the kernel onto it?08:44
deltor do you mean use a SD card?08:44
johnxflasher -k kernel -f08:44
infoboti guess flasher is
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deltoh and most importantly, is there a cross-compiler to even compile a kernel for arm cortex from a pc?08:45
johnxN810 has an ARM11, not a cortex A808:45
johnxand yes, of course there is08:45
johnxbut not for windows I imagine08:45
deltlinux here08:45
johnxdunno what you mean by PC08:45
deltlinux slackware running on standard pc08:45
johnxyou can get the maemo SDK from nokia, or just the cross compiler from probably code sourcery08:46
johnxor bootstrap your own08:46
deltso i could also put the real binutils commands etc etc...instead of busybox?08:46
johnxalongside, not instead of08:46
deltoh, that would be just as good08:47
johnxthey're already packaged I think08:47
deltso, flasher..... available from nokia's website i would guess?08:47
infobotit has been said that flasher is
deltkind of tired, will take care of all this tomorrow....08:48
deltgood night and thx for the info08:48
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RST38hheya johnx08:49
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johnxhey RST38h08:51
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johnxjust on way to store08:51
johnxback in a bit08:51
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RST38hEnjoy, punks:
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pexiyeah, and they copied that from a small innovative company that introduced 2001-2002 fully java-based touchscreen phone with sliding and acc meter effects :)11:02
pexiactually only htc desiree has beaten that ux (for me)11:04
pexidonno what happened to that company but it sure didn't make it11:05
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jarkkomI'm pretty sure nokia actually had online app store in 2004/2005 unlike that article says because I did some contract work on one11:09
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jarkkomthough it might've just been typically nokia to have multiple competing managers each pushing their own thing and ruining it for everyone11:10
pexiyeah, sonera sure did that :)11:12
pexiactually they gave the same projects to diff groups and the winning one was chosen to lead etc11:12
jarkkomprobably main reason why app store thing failed was that symbian was just terrible to code for and there were only handful of 3rd party apps11:13
Lopihas anyone heard of ?11:14
jarkkompeople threatened to quit if you made them write symbian code11:14
StskeepsLopi: yeah, almost drove her mad :)11:14
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Lopidoes it work well?11:15
Stskeepsnot really, and is outdated11:15
Lopihm, anything else out there like it?11:16
Stskeepsbest way is meego11:16
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jacktheripperhello, I'm trying to follow the packaging guide on the maemo wiki to create a debian package of libwnck. I followed everything mentioned but I don't get the binary in the its package or the headers/doc in its dev package. What am I missing !?11:36
LopiStskeeps, does rkirti still come to the maemo irc?11:37
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rmrfchikjacktheripper: do you have "install ..."  in debian/rules?11:42
jacktheripper"install: " yes, as a template I think11:43
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jacktheripperI mean I didn't mess with it11:44
jacktheripperfirst time I'm doing packaging. So be patient :D11:45
jarkkomanyone know what's easiest way to make whole layout (containing just QLables) clickable?11:45
jarkkomdoes just extending widget class and setting that custom class as widget for layout work?11:45
rmrfchikjacktheripper: it should install your files11:47
rmrfchikpastebin your debian/rules11:47
rmrfchikASAP as I have to go soon ;)11:47
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rmrfchikI think this will not work: $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp install11:50
jacktheripperwell, it's not mentioned in the wiki that I should modify anything11:51
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rmrfchikdo you use autotools?11:57
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jacktheripperyes I think11:58
jacktheripperit's not my source code11:58
rmrfchikcheck debian/tmp dir11:59
rmrfchikany your files?11:59
jacktheripperthey're libwnck compiled12:00
jacktheripperwith headers12:00
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rmrfchikso, they should be in deb files then12:00
jacktheripperthey aren't for some reason12:01
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jacktheripperat least not in data.tar.gz12:01
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jacktheripperdata.tar.gz just has copyright and changelog in /usr/share/doc/libwnck/12:02
rmrfchikhave no idea :(12:03
jacktheripperthanks for the help anyway :D12:04
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Khertan_Hi !13:08
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Khertan_Does the bluetooth mac address is like tcp/ip mac address with a range attributed to one developpers ?13:09
kerioi think so13:09
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Khertan_does we know which range is attributed to n900 ?13:11
SpeedEvilIt's probably the range allocated to broadcom13:13
SpeedEvilthe hardware manufacturer of the bluetooth device.13:13
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JaffaMorning, all13:17
Jaffatekojo: ping13:17
tekojoJaffa: morning13:17
Jaffatekojo: Who, in X-Fade's absence, can change the council@ mail alias?13:18
tekojoferenc or eero, at least13:20
tekojoI'll ping13:20
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Jaffatekojo: Thanks13:22
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Khertan_SpeedEvil: hum ... will be difficult to differenciate n900 from other device using the same chipset13:25
satmdby mac? yes13:26
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satmdbut luckily bluetooth has mechanisms to enumerated device services13:26
SpeedEvilI mean yes.13:28
SpeedEvilYou can't generally tell devices from their ID alone.13:28
SpeedEvilSimply as it's the bluetooth devices ID you're measuring, and that will be shared among many makers of end-user hardware13:28
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crashanddiemrmoku|away, you can deactivate your away script. We don't care.13:45
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flexxxvMohammadAG51: ping13:53
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flexxxvMohammadAG51: Are you now intrested in logs? because on one hand you say the thread is only there to attract developers and on the other you want some logs (but i was told here on irc that syslog isn't enogh).13:55
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mecehow goes things?13:58
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DocScrutinizer>> That said, changing your nick is a lesser sin than public /away messages, because it's easy to filter out. <<14:06
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: what makes you think that's a script? Maybe mrmoku|away changed his nick voluntarily to document he's 2 weeks on holiday14:07
tybolltDocScrutinizer: public away messages? Ugh do people say 'me too' still, too? :)14:08
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DocScrutinizertybollt: heh?14:08
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DocScrutinizerwhat fsckng public away message?14:09
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DocScrutinizerIRSeekBot: ?14:10
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DocScrutinizerIRSeekBot: status14:10
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DocScrutinizerIRSeekBot: help14:10
DocScrutinizerIRSeekBot: info14:10
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*** IRSeekBot was kicked by DocScrutinizer (tell your master to check with chanops/owners and to obey general IRC bot rules (about identifying him) when implementing you)14:12
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DocScrutinizerzash: thanks for the link :-)14:17
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mece"Warning: Promotion of packages depending on libsdl-ttf2.0-0 has been  disabled. We hope to remove this blockage as soon as possible."14:22
meceso what should the dependency be? is it libsdl-ttf2.0 ?14:23
* RST38h laughs satanically14:23
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Jaffamece: achipa is your man; I think libsdl-ttf2.0, but Nokia have caused (again) an enormous mess.14:24
RST38hWell, this is a pretty old problem, so "again" may not apply :)14:25
meceThe two packages are the same, right?14:25
mecein terms of content14:25
iliusdoes Global image contain all regions?14:26
jacekowskiit's image for all regions except ones that have region specific image14:27
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: LOL14:30
iliuswhats the different between regions? only localization?14:31
DocScrutinizerilius: like india, UK, err... Vodafone :-P14:31
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DocScrutinizerilius: nobody knows for sure. Some might be regulatory (WLAN channels etc), some are pretty clear (for the chinese version :-D)14:32
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DocScrutinizerindia missing skype afaik14:33
iliusDocScrutinizer: and sim card?14:33
DocScrutinizernot afaik14:33
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DocScrutinizeras a general rule the global version works great for all regions14:33
meceSegway company owner dies in freak segway accident.14:34
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Appiahmece: ?14:35
AppiahMillionaire owner of Segway firm dies in freak accident after riding one of his two-wheel machines off a cliff14:35
Appiahoh my14:35
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RST38hAppiah: Noooo?14:39
Appiahdont worry14:39
DocScrutinizerwhere's the "rumour has it he committed suicide after reading too much tmo" part?14:39
Appiahthey wont stop making em14:39
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DocScrutinizeror wait, is this OT maybe?14:40
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Appiaha n900 o a segway would be cool14:40
Appiah(now we are back on topic?)14:41
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DocScrutinizer""No, Ladies and Gentlemen, let me demonstrate the cool new autopilot AI in Segway advanced!"" Garry, WTF did you do to the repositories? FUUUuuuu....<splash>14:44
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TermanaI don't even...14:49
TermanaWhat idiot rides a segway near a cliff anyway?14:49
DocScrutinizera 64y old idiot that bought Segway earlier this year because he thought it's cool to own the company building the thing he loves so much14:50
Appiahmaybe he was trying something new, trying to bring the segway into "extreme" sports14:51
jogaI got to try out a segway once, it was pretty funny14:51
DocScrutinizerI think you can find similar incidents for Ferraris, paragliders, whatnot14:51
jogathis is way more cool;txt#ixzz10BctgSfs14:52
* DocScrutinizer wonders what's an 'utter plonker'14:52
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PeYKaRHi dudes, I'm facing with e disaster :D14:52
PeYKaRafter flashing, my n900 does not detect my SIM card. any idea?14:53
jacktheripperguys ? I'm trying to package this library for maemo (my first ever debian package), I get all files created in debian/tmp but not in the actual .deb package. What am I missing ?14:53
TermanaPeYKaR, flashed an older image than the one you had on there?14:54
Termana(eg. PR 1.1.1 when you had 1.2 on there, or whatever)14:54
PeYKaRTermana, i don't know what version it was. but i flashed with latest version (maemo 5) USA14:54
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nidOcheck the fw version installed14:56
TermanaPeYKaR, Put a thin piece of cardboard/folded paper in the sim tray before putting your sim in, to hold it tight there14:56
PeYKaRTermana, i just worked fine before flashing...14:56
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iliusi flashed the same version (RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM) but there was absolutely no problem with sim card14:58
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DocScrutinizerjoga: (the bad guys would give up on general principle) that's exactly the American Way of omnipotence misconception. The bad guys will have big fun on on playing shooting clay pigeons with those badass soldiers14:59
iliusPeYKaR: maybe solve with that paper14:59
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PeYKaRlet me try15:00
DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: check firmware version, clean SIM contacts, check for PEBKAC15:01
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togglesi hate E: PEBKAC15:02
DocScrutinizerwho doesn't15:02
togglessucks when it's your mum too15:03
infobotPEBKAC: Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.15:03
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alteregoAlmost finished the food menu now :)15:04
alteregoWhich means, I've almost finished the site.15:04
alteregoWell, content wise, then I have to work on refining the style.15:04
merlin1991why don't you say 95% of computer errors, straight ?15:05
PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, what is PEBKAC?15:05
alteregoGot another meeting this evening, so hopefully he'll be happy with what I've got.15:05
alteregoOh, crap, wrong channel ...15:05
DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: see backscroll15:05
* merlin1991 wants live partitions shrinking!15:06
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merlin1991and scp over usb to the n900 is slow, really slow15:07
DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: there's actually some reports about poorly manufactured SIM cards not contacting to the gold springs that well, so you have to support it someway (I usually suggest some layers of scotchtape to the back of SIM, rather than messing around with paper inlays)15:07
DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: but when your SIM worked flawlessly before the upgrade, it's quite unlikely it borked on mere coincidence15:08
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PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, any idea? :-/15:09
DocScrutinizer>90% are user errors though, not correctly closing and locking the SIM holder15:09
DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: make sure your image is the most recent COMBINED file, then reflash that one15:10
DocScrutinizernokia download site is quite confusing, easy to pick the wrong image file15:11
PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, i flashed with: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin (PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1)15:11
DocScrutinizerlooks ok15:11
PeYKaRmentioned: Latest Maemo 5 USA release for Nokia N90015:12
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DocScrutinizermaybe try global version instead15:12
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DocScrutinizerdunno about the USA version15:12
PeYKaRI'm in iran, but i don't think it is a regional limit, because my friends flashed their owns with USA version.15:12
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DocScrutinizermight conflict with a previous global version PR1.1.115:12
DocScrutinizerUSA has some rather screwed carriers, maybe the modem firmware for USA actually is different15:14
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DocScrutinizerlike "do not accept any Iran SIM" X-P15:15
PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, I'm downloading Middle East version... maybe makes it work15:15
DocScrutinizerI suggest to use global version15:15
PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, ow, will download it too :)15:16
DocScrutinizerwell, middle east might have some RTL text support that you like to get - tbh I got nfc what's the differences between the global and localized versions of PR15:16
DocScrutinizerjust know a global device is supposed to work globally15:17
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PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, i think so :P15:17
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crashanddiedocscrutinizer: are you actually doing it on purpose to be nearly un-understandable?15:21
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crashanddie"rtl tbh nfc pr"15:22
crashanddieyou read like a mismanaged middle-manager :P15:22
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TiagoTiagoany idea why the builtin media player somtimes will switch to another weradio bookmark while playing ?15:24
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merlin1991crashanddie, doc only has the long term irc disorder ;)15:25
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SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: I would guess it's coming to the 'end' of a track due to a temporary glitch.15:30
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TiagoTiagoshouldn't it just stop playing? webradio bookmarks aren't supposed to be a playlist......15:31
SpeedEvilI dunno15:32
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TiagoTiagois there a way i can create a subfolder for webradio nbookmarks so ii can control to which stream it will switch to when it glitches like this?15:34
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SpeedEvilDunno. I'm just hypothesising.15:36
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TiagoTiagoit makes sense, when it happens it always skips to the bookmark that comes after it15:37
SpeedEvilIs there a 'loop' mode?15:37
Khertan_hum... t.m.o down15:37
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crashanddieX-Fade, what did you do again?15:38
MohammadAG51he killed m.o.15:38
crashanddieKhertan_, it's working here...15:38
MohammadAG51crashanddie, passed the test yet?15:38
crashanddieMohammadAG51, not before the next couple months, lol15:38
crashanddieMohammadAG51, you know, I have a job, and all :)15:39
MohammadAG51school counts as a job :P15:39
crashanddieno it don't :P15:39
TiagoTiagothe only loop mode is with stored audio files, and it doesn't loop a single file, but all of them15:39
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Khertan_crashanddie: uh ... didn't for me :(15:41
TiagoTiagoit counts if you're a teacher15:41
PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, I did not hold "u" button first time I flashed. but second time I reflashed it with holding "u". maybe it is because of that? isn't it?15:41
MohammadAG51and a student15:41
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DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: unlikely15:45
DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: either flashing succeeds or it fails completely, leaving device in original state15:45
DocScrutinizeronly way to create a borked flashing is to prematurely abort the process after it started to actually flash the device15:46
TiagoTiagoor flash a bad image, no?15:47
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DocScrutinizeryes, but that's a successful flashing of a borked image then, not a borked flashing of a good image15:47
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TiagoTiagoif there is bad contacts in the USB cable and you bump it during flash, will itr finish prematurelly or is there the chance it will send corrupt daata and jut keep flashing to the normal end?15:49
SpeedEvilUSB is generally checksummed15:49
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PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, hooray, yaaay, worked like a charm :) Middle East version :)15:49
SpeedEvilat quite a low level15:49
PeYKaRDocScrutinizer, tnx dude :)15:49
DocScrutinizerPeYKaR: you're welcome15:49
TiagoTiagowhy do you like middle east version?15:49
PeYKaRTiagoTiago, scroll up :D15:50
TiagoTiagothen why  thumbdrives get bricked if you pull out too soon?15:50
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: (bad contacts) aiui the flashing process is secured by checksum15:50
TiagoTiagohm, i don't see why you would want the ME instead of the Global version, was that mentioned before i came?15:51
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: because you rip the the filesystem, just like with pulling plug of any arbitrary computer15:51
TiagoTiagook, ut what about when you just bump it without completly removing it?15:52
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: actually for flash drives it's even worse, as the blocksize of an aborted "sector" write isn't 512 bytes as on former HDD, but something like 256k15:53
merlin1991lol I love it how I have to apt-get remove rhytmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, to stop rhythmbox from segfaulting :D15:53
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seif_hey guys15:53
seif_my n900 tells me Device (memory card corrupted)15:54
seif_any idea how i can fix that15:54
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
DocScrutinizeronly simple way15:54
MohammadAG51wtf mate15:54
TermanaDocScrutinizer, for a corrupted external memory card?15:55
DocScrutinizerwho said 'external' except of you15:55
MohammadAG51that is external15:55
MohammadAG51mine always says that15:55
MohammadAG51cause fremantle is too retarded to detect ext315:55
DocScrutinizeractually seif_ provided so few info I shouldn't have answered at all, first instance15:56
seif_MohammadAG51, i dont have a memory card in yet15:56
MohammadAG51flashing it is15:56
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psycho_oreosI've fixed that issue with external flash to work with ext3, alas camera-ui app won't save photos to ext315:56
* MohammadAG51 apologizes to DocScrutinizer 15:56
TiagoTiagowhat if you simlink to it?15:56
DocScrutinizer(got a date and I'm late, so I try to answer faster on IRC X-P... to compensate)15:57
GAN900Hooray for Nokia's proprietary differentiation.15:57
MohammadAG51vfat can't have symlinks15:57
DocScrutinizerGAN900: YEAH!!15:57
sp3000which differentiation is this15:57
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TiagoTiagogood luck Doc *crosses fingers hoping Doc'll get some*15:58
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: I made a 4G partition and shrunk mydocs onto this.15:58
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: good luck.15:58
* MohammadAG51 has a 3GB /opt15:58
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: Then a 26G remainder.15:58
DocScrutinizer""we differentiate in  that we force user to use borked apps""15:58
GAN900sp3000, camera-ui, at the moment.15:58
TiagoTiagoah, yeah, you gotta save to vfat15:58
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, you know what we're doing in hostmode's development15:58
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sp3000what, there's a better nonprop alternative at hand? :)15:58
psycho_oreoswouldn't corrupted mean the partition itself is not mountable? I've had that issue awhile back, corrupted internal storage but the data remains visible and intact when connected to host PC, after mounting and checking the contents15:58
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: date with a doc to fix my left arm :-S15:59
MohammadAG51# Real hackers don't read docs.15:59
MohammadAG51we read docs15:59
GAN900sp3000, there would be if Nokia had opensourced it.15:59
TiagoTiagooh, lol15:59
sp3000there is that15:59
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GAN900sp3000, point being, most of Nokia's differentiation code just plain sucks.15:59
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, heh my solution was to create loopfs and mount them through there.. I have not been able to repartition that 29GB (and not willing to)15:59
sp3000sure :)15:59
sp3000can't the host fsck it just fine?15:59
TiagoTiagoi would call that an appointment and not a date, dates are usually the romantic kind15:59
sp3000or, wasn't that the traditional solution16:00
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RST38hGAN900: MicroB (and Symbian browser) are Nokia differentiation code16:00
RST38hAnd the DO NOT suck16:00
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RST38hSymbian address book and (to some degree) media player do not suck either16:00
sp3000...on the ooutside? :)16:00
MohammadAG51Maemo isn't what I expected it to be though16:01
SpeedEvilMaps sort-of-doesn't suck.16:01
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RST38hSo, I would avoid the "sucks" qualifier16:01
TiagoTiagoMicroB's settings are randomlly generated each time i load it, they are not saved at all16:01
SpeedEvilthe connection agent is annoying.16:01
RST38hThey are saved here16:01
MohammadAG51most sites said "open device"16:01
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MohammadAG51false advertising sucks16:01
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GAN900RST38h, browser-ui sucks.16:01
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: It is an open device.16:02
RST38hGAN: Got 2-3 warts16:02
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: It's the most open phone out there.16:02
MohammadAG51the system isn't16:02
RST38hGAN: What sucks is Nokia unwilling to fix them16:02
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: (repartition) see for repartitioning the easy way, during VANILLA flashing16:02
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MohammadAG51i agree it's the most open phone, but it's not an open phone16:02
GAN900RST38h, yeah, that's the worst part.16:02
RST38hFor example, not providing saved setting for the freaking reflow feature16:02
TiagoTiagothe device itself isn't quite open, lots of proprietary hardware16:02
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GAN900At least they could let the community take over.16:03
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: I would say that nokia n900 - at the time of launch - was significantly more fundamentally open than the openmoko neo1973 a year later.16:03
RST38hGAN: Stuff like this can be fixed by community in a week16:03
GAN900TiagoTiago, like what?16:03
MohammadAG51TiagoTiago, hardware can't be closed16:03
MohammadAG51drivers can be16:03
RST38hGAN: 'cause it is trivial technically16:03
SpeedEvilAs it basically functioned, and let devs do stuff to provide apps for users.16:03
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: sorry, my non-technical english conversation skills suck like hell16:03
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SpeedEvilOpen devices can suck if they have a bad software stack.16:04
TiagoTiagoAnyone can get their hands on the plans for the ARM processors or the GSM modem?16:04
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, thanks for that but I'm not too particularly interested in it :) hopefully once I get my 32GB mmc I'll be able to allocate the entire thing as ext3 for more scratch spaces16:04
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TiagoTiagoif yes, what are the license for those plans?16:05
RST38hTiagoTiago <== hardly knows what he is talking about16:06
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SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: you can get your hands on the ARM processor specs. Though not the TI implementation of it. And the full docs of a GSM/HDSPA/... modem.16:06
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: It will not be cheap, and will come with NDAs.16:07
TiagoTiagodoesn't sound open16:07
RST38hSpeedEvil: I wonder what he is going to do with these specs16:07
SpeedEvilYou also need a billion dollar fab to instantiate the ARM chip.16:07
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TiagoTiagoaren't specs just numbers, like component count and performance measurements/expectations?16:08
SpeedEvilFull specs of the ARM chip includes detailed mask design and VHDL/... glue logic.16:08
DocScrutinizerraster: hi :-D16:08
TiagoTiagoi see16:08
SpeedEvilFull specs are what would enable you to make your own device from sand and rocks.16:10
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DocScrutinizernothing out there in this universe comes with FULL specs of that kind16:10
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jacekowskiTiagoTiago: well, you have specs of specific arm chip that are just numbers and how to use it16:11
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: and you have specs from arm that have full design of chip16:11
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TiagoTiagoi see16:12
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DocScrutinizeranyway, I like to try and catch that appointment. Need my arm for the future16:12
TiagoTiagogood luck, cya16:13
* MohammadAG51 gives DocScrutinizer an ARM Coretex-816:13
MohammadAG51ShadowJK, ping16:14
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TiagoTiagoIf you gotta pay and sign a NDA, or reverse engineer the thing to get the plans for the hardware, i don't think you can call that hardware open16:15
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SpeedEvilARM will sell you the plans outright.16:15
SpeedEvilIt will be hideously expensive.16:15
TiagoTiagowithout a NDA?16:15
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SpeedEvilNo, much, much more.16:16
TiagoTiagowhy isn't it on Wikileaks or some torrent sites already?16:16
merlin1991got some spare cash MohammadAG51 ? :D16:16
SpeedEvilA sizeable fraction of the value of company ARM.16:16
MohammadAG51merlin1991, i wish16:16
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jacekowskii think not so much16:16
TiagoTiagoSo basicly you would have to buy the IP becoming the new owner?16:17
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SpeedEvilIf you want the rights to distribute it.16:17
* MohammadAG51 pays 200kk and makes a new CPU16:17
jacekowskii mean they get most of their money from fee that you pay for each unit manufacture16:17
MohammadAG51is FOOT FET-9 a good name?16:17
jacekowskii mean i saw a development board16:18
jacekowskithat had fpga instead of real cpu16:18
Venemohi guys16:18
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TiagoTiagoall these busyness talk is just confirming the thing is closed16:19
Venemomy N900's battery is totally dead, and it won't charge either on the wall charger or a USB cable16:19
jacekowskitry to reboot16:19
jacekowskihadr reboot16:19
TiagoTiagoperhaps your usb port is dead?16:19
jacekowskiand it may be your failing usb port failed16:19
Surfait may well be died battery too16:19
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Venemoit is shut down16:19
Surfathat's exactly the way it behaves as it dies16:19
Venemoand it won't turn on16:19
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MohammadAG51Surfa, not if bme isn't running16:20
SpeedEvilVenemo: Unplug battery. Leave out for a minute. Plug battery back in. Attach to wall-charger.16:20
TiagoTiagowould plugging to the wall without the battery be a good idea?16:20
SpeedEvilVenemo: Leave for an hour.16:20
SpeedEvilVenemo: Do you happen to have a voltmeteR?16:20
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: no16:20
SurfaMohammadAG51, doesn't really mean anything16:20
MohammadAG51Surfa, actually, it does16:20
SurfaMohammadAG51, i have seen plenty of devices behaving such way if battery doesn't work16:20
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, hmm? DocScrutinizer's hotswap depends on that16:20
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VenemoSpeedEvil: I don't have one right now16:21
VenemoSpeedEvil: I plugged it out and in, and left it on the wall charger for over 8 hours16:21
MohammadAG51Surfa, stop bme, the device will cold shut down when the battery's dead16:21
VenemoSpeedEvil: although I didn't wait a minute before plugging it back16:21
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: It also relies on setting teh device in a very specific condition first16:21
SpeedEvilVenemo: a minute shouldn't really be needed.16:22
SpeedEvilVenemo: had you got any indications that your USB connector was dodgy?16:22
MohammadAG51my device charges fine when it's dead16:22
MohammadAG51cold dead16:22
VenemoSpeedEvil: no16:22
VenemoSpeedEvil: although I did stop bme, so I think the battery is simply dead16:22
SpeedEvilVenemo: Do you get a light when you plug in the charger?16:23
MohammadAG51bq27xx chaeging should always kick in16:23
SurfaVenemo, if i were you i'd try out other battery in the first place and try anything else afterwards16:23
SpeedEvilHardware charging should always start then on flat battery, and give orange light.16:23
SpeedEvilOnce the device boots initally though things can go wrong.16:23
MohammadAG51even without a battery16:23
TiagoTiagosteady orange (or amber depending on your eyes and semantics)16:24
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Appiahabout charging: this morning I plugged the charger in on the n90016:24
crashanddieor yellow16:24
Appiahand the n900 shut down16:24
Appiahthis has happend to me before16:24
MohammadAG51without a battery and with a broken kernel, you can start the device without a battery16:24
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TiagoTiagodid it come back? or stayed off?16:24
Appiahand I need to take out the battery and insert it again to be able to start it16:24
TiagoTiagooh, wow16:25
Appiahhappend last week too =/16:25
VenemoSpeedEvil: nothing happens when I plug in the charger. no LEDs16:25
TiagoTiagois it hot?16:25
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TiagoTiagois the usb port loose at all?16:25
VenemoTiagoTiago: no16:25
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VenemoTiagoTiago: it is not loose, and the N900 doesn't get hot16:26
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SpeedEvilVenemo: Do you also not get any lights when plugged into a computer?16:26
TiagoTiagodid you use it in a moist environment or dropped any liquids on it?16:26
VenemoSpeedEvil: indeed16:27
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VenemoTiagoTiago: no, I didn't16:27
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sivanghi all!16:27
SpeedEvilVenemo: My first attempt would be to unplug battery for a minute, to ensure it's not a state problem. Then I'd go looking for a multimeter.16:28
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sivanglo rodarvus :)16:28
TiagoTiagowhy people on Africa can use their mobiles as wireless wallet even for things like vending machines and I have to a significant percentage of minuimum wage just to browse the web on my mobile?   :/16:28
TiagoTiagohave to pay a significant*16:29
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jacekowskiTiagoTiago: ekhm, where?16:29
MyrttiTiagoTiago: because it's probably different technology16:29
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TermanaTiagoTiago, because you my sad friend, live in America and not Africa. That's why.16:30
Myrttior Europe16:30
TiagoTiagono, i blame the governament and the carriers16:30
Appiahhey its the land of the free right?16:30
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: Where ar eyou?16:30
Myrttipassive aggressive complaining always helps16:30
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: I forgot.16:30
Appiahfree to take any charge(rate?) :)16:30
MyrttiI find it most consoling16:30
TiagoTiagotoo many taxes and the carriers want too big profits for too little service16:30
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VenemoSpeedEvil: so what do I do with a multimeter?16:31
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SpeedEvilVenemo: set it to volts. Measure the voltage between the + and - connections on the battery16:32
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TiagoTiagoDo you want me to tell you where you should stick it?16:32
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Venemowell, I don't have a multimeter with me16:32
Venemosorry, I was not familiar with the meaning of the word in English :(16:33
TiagoTiagowould licking the battery work?16:33
TiagoTiagosorry, i was just being silly16:33
sivangTiagoTiago: same here16:34
TiagoTiagoa multimeter is a device that measures a bunch of electricity related properties of stuff, can be used to check the charge of batteries if set correctly16:35
TermanaIs there anyway to get the N900 camera to, you know, not suck?16:35
SpeedEvilTermana: in what way16:35
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SpeedEvilIt is astonishing for what it is.16:35
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TermanaSpeedEvil, all my pictures turn out blurry and dark16:35
Termana(even with the flash)16:35
SpeedEvilBut you can only get so much performance out of something 6*6mm16:35
SpeedEvilIn the dark?16:35
VenemoTiagoTiago: yeah, I figured that out :) thanks :)16:36
TermanaSpeedEvil, in the light16:36
SpeedEvil - all my recent pics are n90016:36
SpeedEvilI'd not say they suck.16:36
sivangTermana: just don't try dark photos with it, and it is quite good.16:36
TiagoTiagodidn't they break some records in the N8 with some optics and material tricks?16:36
SpeedEvilfcam will do very good efforts in the dark.16:36
sivangSpeedEvil: yet another app? :)16:36
sivangfast cam?16:37
SpeedEvil(the composition of the pictures may suck)16:37
sivanglike fam16:37
viszalso lack of details in the target helps16:37
SpeedEvilBut the dynamic range/resolution are acceptable.16:37
TiagoTiagowhat is you guys' opinions on that Bless900 prog?16:37
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sivangSpeedEvil: I had troulbe falling asleep knowing I did not managet to set up USB networking :)16:37
dsgn900 camera is really shitty in low-light, but good for outdoors in daylight16:37
SpeedEvildsg: It's OK for slow-shots indoors with fcam.16:37
Venemosivang: use Mad Developer16:37
jpinx-eeepcdsg: I get not bad results with flash16:38
TiagoTiagoI saw on the web some night videos taken with N900 and they looked surprisingly good16:38
visz <- one of my favourite N900 pictures16:38
sivangah, fcam the research project16:38
sivangfunny I read about it 3 motnhs ago and frogot16:38
dsgSpeedEvil: Hm, haven't tried fcam :)16:38
crashanddievisz, that ain't an N900, THAT'S NOTRE DAME!16:38
sivangVenemo: yes, but that doesn't make me not need to setup networking16:38
crashanddiesame difference16:38
viszoh, right16:39
viszCathédrale Notre-Dame-de-Strasbourg16:39
SpeedEvilfcam can produce OK pictures where the PR1.1 viewfinder would have been black.16:39
SpeedEvilPR1.2 got lots better with night mode.16:39
sivangI have some pretty nice ones from somewhere very nice in Europe :)16:39
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sivangoh ! I must continue my persuit to flashing but before backing up but for that I need USB networking :-P16:39
TiagoTiagothat beaked thing photo was taken with a N900?16:40
sivangvidoes are better than photos in the dark, even with my PR1.1.16:40
TiagoTiagowhy are you still using the older PR?16:40
VenemoSpeedEvil: okay, I now separated the battery for more than a minute. put it back, put the N900 on the charger. no effect16:41
TiagoTiagoyou're placing the battery in the right position, right?16:41
SpeedEvilVenemo: I would be leaning towards hardware problems.16:42
VenemoTiagoTiago: yes...16:42
* MohammadAG51 suggests charging it externally16:42
TiagoTiagobtw, check the contacts on both ends see if the metal plates aren't bent out of the way16:43
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MohammadAG51TiagoTiago, Venemo knows his shit :P16:43
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VenemoTiagoTiago: they are not bent in any way. This happens since the battery was depleted yesterday, so I would bet this is an issue with the battery itself16:44
MohammadAG51or the bq chip16:44
MohammadAG51and it only appeared yesterday since the bat was depleted16:44
VenemoTiagoTiago: before you ask, no, I didn't short-circuit it. neither did I throw it into fire, nor any ridiculous stuff like that16:45
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover16:45
MohammadAG51did you drink consume the battery as an energy drink?16:45
VenemoDocScrutinizer: you are the third one today recommending that. :)16:46
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: and it isn't working16:46
TiagoTiagodo you happen to be flying over the Bermuda triangle, or have you witnessed any hauntings latelly?16:47
DocScrutinizerthen your hardware is broken (or more likely you're not exactly following the recomendations, or have a borked firmare image on your sevice)16:47
dsgVenemo: Sounds similar to my first n900, USB connector ripped the track up from the PCB so it stopped charging in the middle of the night, in the morning it was permanently dead16:47
VenemoDocScrutinizer: no, I simply stopped bme and let it deplete16:47
TiagoTiagoit's not even lighting up steady, so i don't think it can be a firmware issue16:47
VenemoDocScrutinizer: the LED doesn't light up16:47
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, firmware can't affect the bq afaik16:47
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sivanghey MohammadAG5116:48
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sivangDocScrutinizer: there's something enchanting with the word "b0rk3d"16:49
MohammadAG51i'm off16:49
MohammadAG51hi sivang16:49
MohammadAG51studying, cya16:49
VenemoMohammadAG51: goodbye16:49
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VenemoI think I'll check whether the device works with another battery. if yes, the battery died. if no, then something else is wrong and a warranty repair is in order16:50
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TiagoTiagoremember to check if it can charge other batteries to confirm if it isn't the USB socket gone bad16:51
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VenemoTiagoTiago: good thought16:52
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h4waiiVenemo, no joy?16:53
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Venemoh4waii: I don't have another BL-5J with me, so I dunno16:54
* sivang retires USB networking setup.16:55
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TiagoTiagoi unplugged the charger on mine, it went ploool with the battery indicator red, i quickly plugged the charger back in panic, but then i remembwred i had just checked a few minutes ago and it had full battery, so i unplugged the charger again and now it recognized the full charge....go figure....16:59
h4waiiWhen you plug it in, watch the LED very closely - does it spark just a TAD?16:59
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h4waiiNo, Venemo17:00
Venemoh4waii: nope17:01
Venemoh4waii: not at all17:01
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dsgTiagoTiago: You can't trust the battery meter, especially after a partial charge. This is true of all consumer electronics.17:02
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TiagoTiagoit had been plugged for hours and with the screen off the LED was green17:03
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TiagoTiagoit choked when i pulled the plug the first time, but got it right the seocond time17:03
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h4waiiVenemo, you CAN direct wire lines to the hot and ground on the battery to charge it.17:05
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h4waiiVenemo, but I wouldn't do it for more than an hour or so. Or just buy an external charger and spare BL-5J.17:06
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GAN900Jaffa, ping?17:09
mrmokucrashanddie: sorry for annoying you... will turn it off17:10
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mrmokuzash: yeah, nice link, thanks :)17:10
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crashanddiethanks, much appreciated.17:10
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jacekowskih4waii: there is no hot on battery17:13
jacekowskih4waii: it's positive and negative17:13
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: that happens quite often17:14
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: bme goes haywire17:14
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: you have to reboot17:14
JaffaGAN900: pong17:14
JaffaGAN900: Thanks for doing so much of the issue last night17:14
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TiagoTiagoit seems to be working right now, i'll wait for a bit more and see if the baterry charge indicator doesn't go down, only then i'll reboot (unless somthing else makes me reboot earlier)17:16
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jacekowskiuptime junkie?17:17
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TiagoTiagojust don't wanna reboot when i don't have too17:18
TiagoTiagoright now it seems to be working alright17:18
GAN900Jaffa, I like Engadget's source/via links.17:19
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GAN900Jaffa, can we do something like that for mwkn?17:19
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GAN900Jaffa, and no problem. :)17:19
TiagoTiagothe lowcharge scare seems to have been just a hiccup17:19
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viszunrelated, but cool:
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SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: lshal|grep battery.voltage.current17:19
vatsapi wud like to install qt 4.7 experimental packages on my N900.. i tried googling it... i cudnt get a proper ans.. does "apt-get install libqt4-experimental-*" work on my mobile??17:20
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: 4165 or so = fully charged. 3000= empty.17:20
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SpeedEvilmostly flat then17:20
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SpeedEvil60% or soc harge I mean17:21
TiagoTiagothat was a 417:21
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TiagoTiagoaccording to BatteryGraph it's pretty close to full17:22
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JaffaGAN900: Rather than just "read more"?17:23
SpeedEvilbatterygraph believes the normal API I think.17:24
vatsapi wud like to install qt 4.7 experimental packages on my N900.. does "apt-get install libqt4-experimental-*" work on my mobile?? do i need to uninstall libqt4-maemo5-core  first?17:24
SpeedEvilWhich is broken.17:24
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TiagoTiagoit got like 3 or 4 different lines that move somewhat close together while the charger is unplugged, they all seem to be related to battery charge and they are all near the top17:27
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TiagoTiagook, now the battery charge indicator in the status bar shows a little bit of charge gone, still close to the top17:28
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TiagoTiagoare you saying that if i reboot now it will jump to about half charge left?17:30
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TiagoTiagowell, ok, lets see what hapen17:32
vatsaphello der.... i wud like to install qt 4.7 experimental packages on my N900.. does "apt-get install libqt4-experimental-*" work on my mobile?? do i need to uninstall libqt4-maemo5-core  first?17:33
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TiagoTiagonope, it's still shows the same amount of charge17:34
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TiagoTiagoperhaps the maximum my battery ever gets is significantly lower than it should be?17:37
TiagoTiago_just did17:38
jacekowskistop bme17:39
jacekowskiand discharge it17:39
TiagoTiago_what do you mean?17:39
jacekowskiand charge it as soon as it dies17:39
TiagoTiago_just keep using battery till it dies?17:39
jacekowskibut with stopped17:39
jacekowskistopped bme17:40
jacekowskiso it dies because of low voltage shutdown17:40
jacekowskiand then charge it with dedicated charger17:40
jacekowskithat may help17:40
TiagoTiago_is there a way to do it in jsut a few minutes without harming anything?17:40
jacekowskiit will take hours17:40
TiagoTiago_you mean the wall charger or a separated battery charger?17:40
jacekowskiwall charger17:41
jacekowskiit should go into emergency charge mode17:41
jacekowskiand don't try to start it17:41
jacekowskijust leave it17:41
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TiagoTiagoand that will make it show full battery with a bigger value?17:42
jacekowskinothing else you can do17:42
jacekowskibut it will let bq27000 learn true capacity of battery17:42
GAN900Jaffa, yeah.17:42
TiagoTiagois it dangerous to let it die of low charge? like will there be risk it will mess up the file system?17:43
GAN900Jaffa, since we get that meta-summary thing going for a lot of stories.17:43
jacekowskivery unlikely17:43
h4waiiWould he be telling you to do something that would fubar your device?17:43
GAN900Jaffa, be nice to be able to link to both the real content (a wiki page, perhaps) and the commentary.17:43
jacekowskih4waii: i would17:43
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TiagoTiagoso i run killall bme or what?17:43
jacekowskih4waii: if somebody would be asking stupid questions or stuff i wouldn't have any problems with that17:44
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: stop bme17:44
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: that command17:44
TiagoTiagoand how long after plugging it can i power it back?17:44
jacekowskiwhen it goes out of emergency charge mode17:44
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jacekowskiwhich should be 32 minutes17:44
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vatsaphello everybody... i wud like to install qt 4.7 experimental packages on my N900.. does "apt-get install libqt4-experimental-*" work on my mobile?? do i need to uninstall libqt4-maemo5-core  first?17:44
TiagoTiagoso when it is pulsing orange?17:44
TiagoTiagoi dunno vat17:45
jacekowskiin emergency charge mode it's steady orange17:45
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jacekowskiwhen it disappears emergency charge is finished17:45
TiagoTiagoso when it stops being steady it's safe to turn on again?17:45
h4waiiAre you trolling dude?17:45
h4waiiDo you have a comprehension problem? Serious question.17:45
TiagoTiagoI just wanna be sure so i won't fuck things up17:46
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: i think he mean vatsap17:46
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: you can't fuck it up as such17:46
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: but17:46
TiagoTiago_i won't sue you17:47
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: if you charge it to level when it's barely enough to boot17:47
jacekowskibut not enough to start system17:47
jacekowskiyou may end up in reboot loop17:47
TiagoTiago_so leave it pulsing orange for a bit?17:47
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jacekowskiwhen it will discharge to level when you have to start from emergency charge again17:47
jacekowskiideally when steady orange disappears17:48
jacekowskidisconnect it and then connect back again17:48
jacekowskiif it's still steady orange leave it17:48
jacekowskibut 32 minutes should be enough to charge it17:48
TiagoTiagoi see17:48
jacekowskiif you connect it as soon as it dies17:48
RST38hit is yellow, not orange, isn't it?17:49
h4waiiOh god.17:49
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TiagoTiagoanything you recomend i do to make the battery go down the fastest that would be safe?17:49
h4waiiTurn on everything.17:49
TiagoTiagoi was supposed to be yellow, some call amber, looks kinda orange to me17:50
h4waiiScreen brightness up, always on. GPS, WiFi, BT, FMTX all turned on and transmitting/receiving.17:50
h4waiiand play a video while you're at it.17:50
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h4waiiYou'll cook it in 1 hour and can start recharging it.17:51
crashanddieh4waii, you're trolling. Quit it.17:51
TiagoTiago_i don't think i can use the FM tunner with the transmitter at the same time17:51
h4waiicrashanddie, hardly.17:52
SpeedEvilcellphone is far more significant17:52
crashanddiewell, you are going to quit, whether you agree or not.17:52
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h4waiiI'm not the one asking the same question, over and over.17:52
SpeedEviltransfer data over 3G, turn the brightness up to max, and you're about 70% of max load17:52
h4waiiI've done absolutely nothing to warrant a banhammer.17:52
TiagoTiago_that will cost me lots of money, way to much to compensate the reduced wait17:53
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h4waiiCall your voicemail. Should be free.17:53
TiagoTiago_s/compensate/be worth/17:53
infobotTiagoTiago_ meant: that will cost me lots of money, way to much to be worth the reduced wait17:53
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TiagoTiago_wait, i think the first time might have been right, i'm confused now...17:54
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TiagoTiago_does the FM transmitter consume more or less energy than the builin speakers at full volume?17:56
h4waiiFMTX, logically.17:56
prontoit uses cookies17:56
h4waiiHow so, SpeedEvil ?17:56
SpeedEvilh4waii: because it does.17:56
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TiagoTiago_so i should be blasting it out of the speakers instead of the FMTX in order to drain the battery faster?17:57
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SpeedEvilthough speakers aren't really very draining.17:58
TiagoTiago_more than the FMTX at least17:58
SpeedEvilwatch something streaming over 3G with flash17:58
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TiagoTiago_would trying to launch too much stuff and make the system lag drain battery any significantly faster than leaving the device usable?18:00
h4waiiWhat do you think?18:00
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SpeedEvilWatch something over 3G with flash.18:00
h4waiiTying up the processor will save energy?18:00
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TiagoTiago_i dunno if the processor eats lots of battery when kept at maximum clock18:00
SpeedEvilWith screen brightest.18:00
TiagoTiago_no 3G,  too expensive18:01
SpeedEvilThat will eat lots. Discharge in an hour and a half or so.18:01
h4waiiYou can't use common sense to see it will require more energy at a high clock?18:01
SpeedEvilwifi then - 2.5h or so18:01
SpeedEvilh4waii: No, you can't.18:01
h4waiiSpeedEvil, what?18:01
SpeedEvilh4waii: common sense does not give sensible answers to electronic questions if you don't understand the fundamentals.18:01
SpeedEvilOften locking the CPU to a lower frequency will cause more power to be used.18:02
TiagoTiago_no, i mean, will it use significantly more energy at full clock flipping  so many bits it starts to lag, or i can just keep playing games and it will drain the battery in about the same time18:02
h4waiiTo the specific question he posed, common sense can be used.18:02
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h4waiiIf I am driving at WOT as opposed to half, will it use more gas?18:02
h4waiiI realize the principle of electricity is different, yes.18:03
TiagoTiago_i know  flipping more bits uses more battery, i wanna know if it will make any noticeable difference having it lag or just  keep streaming music, GPS indoors, WIFI no power saving and playing games18:03
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h4waiiBut the primary logic is the same, SpeedEvil.18:04
SpeedEvilh4waii: Druving WOT is most efficient for an internal combustion engine.18:05
daleglassSpeedEvil: that is because CPUs have sleep states. Doing X units of work at low clock speed may cost more power due to taking more time, and having less time to sleep. But if the work never ends, high clock speed will use power faster18:05
h4waiiSpeedEvil, efficiency is not what we're discussing. We're talking about fuel consumption.18:05
h4waiiSpeedEvil, and there are other components that work with the internal combustion engine that do NOT take kindly to the effects of WOT.18:06
SpeedEvilh4waii: See the hypermiling sites for ways to use that in practice to greatly exceed the continuous mileage of a car at pulse.18:06
SpeedEvil(where in practice WOT is not used)18:06
daleglassanyway, if you want to waste cpu power, easy: run in the terminal: cat /dev/zero > /dev/null18:06
h4waiiSpeedEvil, there is a trade-off location where WOT will win, yes. But the problem is reaching it.18:07
jacekowskicat /dev/urandom > /dev/null18:07
TiagoTiago_if it won't make battery go off much earlier than if i just keep listening to music and playing games what would be the point of making the device just lag and heat up without being used?18:08
jacekowskiit is being used18:09
jacekowskiwhen it produces heat it's using energy from battery for it18:09
TiagoTiago_it's being used a a heater and night light, not as a computing device18:09
jacekowskiit doesn't have small ZPM inside18:09
jacekowskiwhich would be nice if it would have18:10
h4waiiTiagoTiago_; out of curiosity, what is your age?18:10
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h4waiiSpeedEvil, I can clearly see the article is biased just from the title stored in the URL.18:10
SpeedEvilh4waii: That does not in principle make it incorrect.18:11
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TiagoTiago_i could be playing or doing other shit on my desktop, but i've developed a sweet tooth for Dstroy latelly......18:11
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SpeedEvilThe basic idea is really very simple. The efficiency of the engine is much larger at significant fractions of the maximum power output than ticking over at 10% or so.18:12
crashanddiei'm off all, have a good one18:13
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TiagoTiago_having your car be powered by pulse blasts sounds quite geeky18:13
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ghostcubehi folks, is it only me or got anyone probs with urpo?18:16
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Myrttiurpo, thihihihi18:18
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ghostcubeFIQ|n900: are you running xchat clienT?18:24
ghostcubeif so set nickserv pw as server pw you authing to late18:24
TiagoTiago_how hard it is to hack the Prius II onboard computer to facilitate those tricks?18:25
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RST38hmoo wazd18:28
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RST38h"The European union has banned by law trading of incandescent light bulbs due to their bad efficiency/ecology reasons (most of the energy is transformed into heat). A company is now trying to bypass this by offering their incandescent light bulb products as a heating device."18:30
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n1x0nI'm not surprised... good , if I want to pay more for my electricity then this is my problem not UE's18:31
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TiagoTiago_thought it's everyone's problem if you use too much electricity i guess18:32
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n1x0nyeah let's ban all too fast graphics cards as well :)18:33
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TiagoTiago_there is a technology that resuses the waste heat of CPUs and GPUs to produce electricity though...18:34
Corsacin some datacenter heat is used to warm swimming pool water :)18:35
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SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: no, there isn't.18:37
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: you can in principle get maybe 10% of the power into a GPU and going out as thermal back into electrical.18:37
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daleglassreminds me, stirling engine cpu fan:
TiagoTiago_if nothing else, you could put a stirling generator with the hot side facing the heat dissipator of the computer and the cold side facing the outside18:38
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wazdRST38h: heya :)18:39
wazdRST38h: how's it going?18:39
TiagoTiago_but i'm pretty sure i read they got some motherboards, or perhaps some video cards or some other computer related hardware that is making the waste heat not be completly wasted18:39
TiagoTiago_lol, when i want the battery to drain fast, it is slow Xp18:40
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: if you do that, you add temperature.18:40
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: if you add an extra 30C, you can extract about 10% of the energy.18:40
SpeedEvil(In principle)18:40
SpeedEvilBut you also make the device run hotter, and add lots of complexity18:40
lcukdepending on host country having a computer pump out excess heat may be a benefit18:41
TiagoTiago_As long as you get the heat away from the delicate components fast enough i imagine there shouldn't be any issues18:41
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TiagoTiago_Do you know of a homescreen widget that is a speedometer of battery consumption?18:43
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SpeedEvilI haven't gotten it done yet.18:44
TiagoTiago_lemme know when you do please?18:44
SpeedEvilsee that script18:44
lcukTiagoTiago_, some of the live wallpapers are high consumers18:45
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TiagoTiago_do you know which one is the biggest?18:45
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lcukno TiagoTiago_ are your hands cold or something?18:46
TiagoTiago_someone here i am not sure the name suggested i turn off bme adn  draint he battery to get a good calibration of battery capacity, i wanna drain my battery fast18:47
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* Stskeeps passes lcuk a plate with bacon18:47
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lcukta dude :)18:47
TiagoTiago_if i keep one of the side arrow keys held down in the home screens they start spinning so fast they go black18:49
SpeedEvilGo to youtube. Play something on loop.18:50
SpeedEvildrained in a couple of hours18:50
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TiagoTiago_hey lcuk did you knew that things get messy if you have liwflow running and set liwflow as livewallpaper?18:51
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tripzerowhat's the battery daemon in maemo? bce?18:52
lcukTiagoTiago_, yes, theres a clear button in the bottom, once i get head into things the options dialog will arrive as well as all the other stuff it has18:53
TiagoTiago_i mean, if you have liqflow standalone running and then you also set liqflow as livewallpaper18:54
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lcukahh well, bug in x11 stuff of mine18:54
lcukim goin tho18:54
TiagoTiago_aight, cya18:55
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TiagoTiago_it's like both of them are fighting to use the screena at the same time18:55
TiagoTiago_i wonder how much heat is dissipated by the air moved by the speakers versus how much heat the speakers themselves genereate18:57
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TiagoTiago_does the battery charge indicator freezes when you stop bme?19:00
sivangis there a reason why I can't find MADDE under "Development" section after enabling all extras- ?19:00
TiagoTiago_do you already have it installed?19:01
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TiagoTiago_hm, now i got a ghost liqflow running, it only shows in certain pixels of some programs....19:03
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sivangTiagoTiago_: I might, let me check.19:04
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TiagoTiago_I it would be a totall waste of processing power (not to mention battery charge), but is there any way i can get somthing liek Winamp's Milkdrop audio "visualizations" on my N900?19:05
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biodihello, anyone interested in participating in an open source study?19:07
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TiagoTiago_what would be involved?19:08
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sivanghey lbt19:09
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lbtsivang: hi19:10
TiagoTiago_is it helthy to run lots of stuff to the point of the N900 is hot and keep running till the battery dies?19:10
biodiTiagoTiago_: if you asked me, it would be just me :)19:10
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Khertan_n900Hi !19:13
daleglassbiodi: sure, but I'll be leaving in ~15 min. Please send any questions/links in a private message, and I'll get back to it in a few hours19:13
sivangTiagoTiago_: I did it several times, the machine is intact afterwards but mine's relatively new and I don't do heavey use of it per se.19:14
sivangTiagoTiago_: I like to multitask on it, so...19:14
TiagoTiago_i see19:14
sivangTiagoTiago_: and it does get terribly hot.19:18
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TiagoTiago_yay! the batter is over!19:19
TiagoTiago_time for steady orange19:19
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ShadowJKRST38h, well they make sense in .fi. It's light during summer and people don't use lights. In the winter it's cold and the lights are close to 100% efficient if you think of them as combined heat and lighting devices :)19:24
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TiagoTiago_SEtup a generator to take advantage of the temperature difference between indoors and outdoors19:25
TiagoTiago_and sell electricity19:25
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TiagoTiago_if the yellow light looks orange, is the green  or the red too weak?19:30
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slonopotamustoo strong red? :)19:31
sivangShadowJK: interesting point19:31
TiagoTiago_or that19:31
slonopotamusTiagoTiago_: assuming you're talking about RGB19:32
sivangright, so MADDE is installed19:32
sivangso it is only in the installed apps section19:32
slonopotamusor! you're doing wrong 24-bit -> 16 bit rgb conversion :)19:33
TiagoTiago_when you install somthing it only shows in the installed section (and when there is an update, in the update section)19:33
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sivangTiagoTiago_: yes, would make more sense to just show it in the apps for installation list but have a small icon next to it or some mark that's it is already installed19:38
sivangTiagoTiago_: like the UI version of dpkg -l19:38
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TiagoTiago_Like on Synaptic?19:41
TiagoTiago_or however that is spelled19:41
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evilbulg1rianhi, my n900 seems to get very sluggish after 3 days of uptime. can someone help me track what is cauzing this?19:46
TiagoTiago_hm, i'll see if i can figure out how to rip that "Brace for impact! Heads down! Stay down! Heads down! Stay down!" recording from  that Delta airlines crashlanding to use as ringtone19:46
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sivangno matter what I do, no packets pass onto the USB networking.19:52
* sivang args19:52
jpinx-eeepcTiagoTiago_: not difficult - use audacity19:52
TiagoTiago_i gotta find a good source online19:52
sivangi thought mad-developer would help19:53
sivangit does get the module up, and configured but other than that- nothing works19:53
TiagoTiago_did you try the orientation on the wiki?19:54
sivangTiagoTiago_: yes, a couple of times already- there are a couple, which one were you referring to?19:54
TiagoTiago_there is more than one? I dunno then, i remember seeing one when i was trying to find a way to use another cellphone as a modem for the N90019:54
sivangthere used to be a very simple document someone from FN showed me on a Qt Dev Days, but I can't find it.19:55
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Noobmonk3yfrals lol @your tweet!!19:55
sivangNoobmonk3y: ?19:55
fralsNoobmonk3y: its teh truth :(19:55
Noobmonk3yevening alls!19:55
sivanghey frals19:55
sivangevening Noobmonk3y19:55
Noobmonk3yi are a sweaty betty today!!19:55
TiagoTiago_what did it say?19:56
Noobmonk3yoff to turkey for a day next week i think19:56
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MohammadAG51hi Noobmonk3y19:57
* MohammadAG51 curses school tests, waves bye19:57
Noobmonk3yfrals, come all the way to  greece, within 10 mins the family friend said.... can you fix my pc's please!!! damn greeklish keyboards!19:58
Noobmonk3yhey mo!!!19:58
fralsNoobmonk3y: lol19:58
TiagoTiago_I wanna find the video CNN used on TV, it got the audio perfect,  all the way back from "Brace for impact"19:58
Noobmonk3yand havent slept for 2days!19:58
sivangNoobmonk3y: tell them we don't fix PCs :)19:59
Noobmonk3ylol! :P19:59
TiagoTiago_better, tell them you don't fix PCs that don't speak english19:59
fralsNoobmonk3y: atleast i bet you dont have +8C and cloudy? :P20:00
Noobmonk3yahhhhh 30 and no cloud! :) but was -2 when i left for the airport yesterday at 2am20:00
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sivangit is more +37c in the desert here.20:00
Noobmonk3ylol tiago!20:00
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sivangclouds are nice, they protect you from the damaging sun's radiation20:01
Noobmonk3ysivang, im from the uk, anything above 15 is damn hot!20:01
Myrttidamn right20:01
sivangNoobmonk3y: I'm not from the UK, and it is the same for me :)20:01
sivangNoobmonk3y: at the wrong spot of the globe ;)20:01
sivangMyrtti: *born20:01
sivangerr, Noobmonk3y ^20:01
sivangI think +10c is enough for summer.20:02
Noobmonk3ylol sivang20:02
Noobmonk3ytake it you get no snow!20:02
sivangNO! :-/20:02
sivangand I don't think Santa really visits us, it'll be bad for his blood pressure20:02
vkvrajuHi all20:02
SpeedEvilNoobmonk3y: you have to wait to 16 before you can say that.20:02
SpeedEvilNoobmonk3y: Oh - temperature.20:03
sivangNoobmonk3y: we're lucky to have rain :-p20:03
Noobmonk3y:) that is one thing i dont want in 10 days!!! hehehe20:03
* SpeedEvil looks at the solid grey sky.20:03
sivangNoobmonk3y: Whereabouts in the UK are you?20:03
sivangNoobmonk3y: hehe20:04
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SpeedEvil11C +-1C for the next 2 days, with no sun at all forecast.20:04
TiagoTiago_He flies faster than light at high altitudes and dives on chimneys, i don't think he's worried about his blood pressure20:04
sivangNoobmonk3y: yes, british people keep complaining about the weather, but I tell you it is much nicer to sit in a coffee house when it's 10c a bit cloudy then it is 37c and a desert20:04
Noobmonk3ynear brighton, but in lesvos at the mo!20:04
Noobmonk3ysivang, i agree, but its the same affect reversed, i only want it hot for summer, hehehe20:05
SpeedEvilAnd jumpers are a lot easier than ice-packs.20:05
Noobmonk3yspeed, cold beer is much better than hot chocolate20:05
vkvrajucan anyone help me in converting videos for the N900?20:05
sivangNoobmonk3y: I absolutely loved the weather in Edinburgh20:06
sivangNoobmonk3y: I prefer Coffee so.. :)20:06
vkvrajuif I only want to watch these videos on the N900, what are the best and the optimal settings to be used?20:06
sivangNoobmonk3y: although Little Britian spare it not when talking about recommended vacation destenations.20:06
Noobmonk3y:) :)20:06
TiagoTiago_at most 480 of height, at most 800 of width, i dunno about the rest20:06
sivangNoobmonk3y: they have this piece about the scottish hotel owner :)20:06
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vkvrajuTiago, thanks. Any graphical click-and-convert tool that you recommend20:08
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* sivang -> out , be back later.20:10
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TiagoTiago_I haven't tried converting any videos yet, a few programs i've used in the past are Super (damn link maze int he site to figure out how to download), MediaCoder, and VirtualDub ,, VLC is supposed to be able to do things like that too, but i haven't had sucess figuring out what to do in the past, i didn't tried too hard though20:11
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Noobmonk3yright back to my holiday! ciao alls!!!20:11
TiagoTiago_I mean, i haven't tried converting any videos to use with the N900 yet20:11
Khertan_n900Hi again20:12
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Khertan_n900someone have try qtmobility and the location api ?20:12
Khertan_n900i always got a isValid()==False even after gps got fix20:13
SpeedEvilyou have checked you've got fix using location-test-gui20:13
MohammadAG51an icon in the status menu should be enough for the api to return True20:14
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MohammadAG51mprayertime is in Qt, and uses the location api, but it's C++20:14
Khertan_n900the gps icon stop to blink and stay on so should be enought, isn't it ?20:15
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MohammadAG51though I have no idea about QtMobility, sorry :)20:15
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TiagoTiago_where is that guy about videos?20:16
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digitalsurgeonis there any channel for the nokia qt sdk ?20:16
vkvrajuhi again20:17
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tripzerodigitalsurgeon, #qt ?20:17
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TiagoTiago_vkvraju: i have no idea about what codecs or other details about the format might be make videos be compatible and play smoothly20:18
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vkvrajuTiago, Thats ok. Probably I need to spend some more time on this to find a satisfying result/way20:19
TiagoTiago_TRansfer that video that comes with the N900 to your desktop and check what are the parameters on it20:20
TiagoTiago_~video enconding20:21
vkvrajuFriends, I am quite sure this topic would have already been beaten to death here. But now that Qt 4.7 is out, how realistic is PR 1.3 for our N900.20:21
superchodeso where exactly does one find the source code for an N900 app?20:21
vkvrajuTiago, I think thats a good way to start20:21
TiagoTiago_depends on the app20:21
superchodensschedule is what i'm looking for20:21
TiagoTiago_why infobot didn't say anything? isn't she supposed to make a funny comment about not knowing what i was talking about if she didn't?20:22
Khertan_n900vkvraju : December 201120:22
vkvrajusuperchode : you can go to repos. Go here and search for the app you are looking for. You might get a link to the code for this app20:22
vkvrajuKhertan : lol :)20:23
superchodeyeah, that worked. thanks20:23
TiagoTiago_are you sure it isn't 2012-12-21 ?20:24
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vkvrajuby Dec 2011, I would be expecting 3rd software release for the mystery N920:24
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Khertan_n900vkvraju : hum n900 got two update in one year ... n9 should be out in december so only expect 2nd release :)20:26
TiagoTiago_Why the N900 doesn't support all the H.264 profiles?20:26
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vkvrajuKhertan : It doesn't matter how many updates we got. All it matters is how usable and friendly the device is. Anyways, lets please not debate on the usable part20:27
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vkvrajuBtw Friends, is the End-of-the-Day thing right on schedule ? Or will it be delayed ? If so, I would get into trouble20:28
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TiagoTiago_btw, what happens with the extra 54 pixels from videos recorded at full resolution when played in the N900 itself?20:28
Khertan_n900vkvraju : to be honest, when i see how usable the n900 is think the Meego device will be good too !20:29
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ( incandescent light bulb products as a heating device) and that's exactly what I plan to use them for :-D20:29
Khertan_n900there are displayed out side of the screen20:29
DocScrutinizerRST38h: damn it's be insane to have an electric radiator, if yiou can get light for free from same amount of electric energy20:30
vkvrajuI had scratches there, so couldn't see those extra pixels.20:30
vkvrajuI would give MeeGo a chance till their 1.2 release before I start using it20:31
vkvrajueven 1.2 might be too optimistic20:31
vkvraju1.3 should be correct20:32
Khertan_n900vkvraju : 1.2 should be the first usable release for handset if i understand the roadmap20:32
Khertan_n9001.0 was core release (only a terminal)20:32
vkvrajuKhertan : Nokia reads it as usable, true. But we should read it an Deployable.20:32
Khertan_n9001.1 will be release soon20:32
vkvraju1.2 would be device ready20:33
vkvraju1.3 should be user ready20:33
Khertan_n900so do not expect too much20:33
TiagoTiago_it really annoys me when people rellease 1.* versions that aren't yet really out of beta stage20:33
vkvrajuexactly, I have lowered my expectations20:33
Khertan_n900Tiago 1.0 isn't out of beta stage for netbook20:34
vkvrajuon a side note, how do I reply to particular user here. I am using For some odd reasons, pidgin doesn't allow me to log in20:34
TiagoTiago_if it is still betta it isn't worthy of comming out of zero-point-somthing IMO20:35
DocScrutinizerKhertan_n900: "usable" doesn't mean you'll enjoy to use it20:35
Khertan_n900:) like me ... enter his name + ':'20:35
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Khertan_n900or remap a shortcut for tab20:35
Khertan_n900i m using webchat too20:35
vkvrajuKhertan_n900: testing20:36
vkvrajuoops, that didn't go well20:36
vkvrajubtw, I am very new to this IRC stuff too20:36
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TiagoTiago_ok, pulsing orange again, gonna wait a few more minutes just to be sure and it's boot time20:37
Khertan_n900DocScrutinizer: depends on your usage20:37
Khertan_n900DocScrutinizer : phone call, + 3g internet, and pyqt4 binding will made me a happy user of Meego20:37
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago_: pulsing orange still might mean it's NOLO chaging20:37
TiagoTiago_i pulled out and plugged back and it didn't go back to steady20:37
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago_: give it at least! plus 30min20:37
vkvrajuKhertan : Even I too expect the same thing from MeeGo 1.120:38
TiagoTiago_30minutes, aight20:38
* Khertan_n900 hate fucking website that redirect to wap page !!!! GRRRR20:39
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DocScrutinizerKhertan_n900: what's with your webchat? :-P20:39
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DocScrutinizerare you going to code that via pyqt4 bindings then?20:39
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TiagoTiago_talking about that, why does the OVI store redirects to .mobi ?20:40
MohammadAG51oh nice20:41
MohammadAG51/dev/mtd1 stores the lock code as DES20:41
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MohammadAG51that's kinda retarded20:41
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: :-D20:41
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Khertan_n900DocScrutinizer: webchat ? ... can t use real irc .... block by the isp20:41
DocScrutinizernot the default though - it's 12345 PLAIN TEXT X-P20:41
mgedminssh port forwarding is a useful tool20:42
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TiagoTiago_It's kinda a downer, you buy an expensive device supposed to have desktop web browsing capabilities and the very company that makes it redirects their site to a mobile version when you try to acess it with the device20:42
DocScrutinizerKhertan_n900: I was interested how you'll going to use that with phone call, + 3g internet, and pyqt4 binding20:42
MohammadAG51/dev/mtd2 holds logs, possibly NOLO logs?20:43
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DocScrutinizerkernel panic and OOPS logs20:43
TiagoTiago_MohammadAG51: lots of people are very thankfull for that retardation, there is a whole thread on TMO about recovering forgoten lock codes20:43
MohammadAG51TiagoTiago_, I'm sure stolen phone shops agree20:44
DocScrutinizeryeah and john takes ~0.8s to decode :-P20:44
ShadowJKMohammadAG51, kernel oops i think20:44
Khertan_n900 redirect now to a wap page20:44
MohammadAG51130903.349609] Kernel panic - not syncing: Fatal exception in interrupt20:44
vkvrajubtw, is there a way to see a kernel panic on my n900 ? Can I try it ? Also, when that happens, how do I collect logs ?20:44
Khertan_n900was working well before20:44
MohammadAG51seems so20:44
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MohammadAG51vkvraju, framebuffer kernel20:45
MohammadAG51causes a maximum of 3 reboots at boot up, but works20:45
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vkvrajuso, how do I try it20:45
vkvrajureboot 3 times continously ?20:45
DocScrutinizervkvraju: echo heartbeat > /sys/*/*/led:r*/trigger20:45
TiagoTiago_This convo already happened in the forum, the view there was that the lock code isn't for preventing use by thiefs, but keeping nosy friends out of your deviec while you're going #1 or whatever20:45
DocScrutinizerwith closed kbd and locked screen20:46
MohammadAG51collection of framebugger kernels,
vkvrajuDoc: but then, how would I collect logs and how do I get out of the situation20:47
MohammadAG51typo intended20:47
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vkvrajuI hope it would not cause too much harm to my N900, right?20:47
MohammadAG51no, it won't20:47
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DocScrutinizervkvraju: or simply "cat /dev/kmem"20:47
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TiagoTiago_why powerkernel doesn't come with such an option?20:47
TiagoTiago_or does it?20:48
MohammadAG51what option?20:48
DocScrutinizervkvraju: logs are in /dev/mtd2, you get out of the situation by automatic reboot20:48
vkvrajuSo Moammad: Do I need to install them from that page?20:48
TiagoTiago_the framebuffer thing20:48
MohammadAG51it causes some reboots occasionally20:48
MohammadAG51at boot up20:48
MohammadAG51nothing that affects use though20:48
* timeless_pidgin waves from ...20:48
TiagoTiago_hi timeless20:49
MohammadAG51Bermuda triangle?20:49
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MohammadAG51damn, battery low20:49
* MohammadAG51 kills bme20:49
timeless_pidgin"Ring of Kerry"20:49
vkvrajutried cat /dev/kmem after becoming root. Device just rebooted20:49
vkvrajuis this waht kernel panic is20:49
DocScrutinizervkvraju: yes20:49
TiagoTiago_"kernel panic" sounds like things should burst into flames and scream like a little girl in a horror movie...20:50
vkvrajuI was expecting to see something on the terminal that says Kernel Panic or something of that sort20:50
* MohammadAG51 tries command typed above20:50
DocScrutinizervkvraju: stock kernel has no console20:50
DocScrutinizer(at least none on device - there's a serial console though)20:51
TiagoTiago_those contacts under the battery?20:51
timeless_pidginStock configuration doesn't use it20:52
timeless_pidginIt's terrible for battery life20:52
TiagoTiago_someone should make a battery cover that slips some plugs under the batter and has extrenal plugs for those things20:52
vkvrajutrying to see through that logs under /dev/mtd2. Need to be root for that too20:52
DocScrutinizeryeah, that's why you got flasher flags20:52
infobotTiagoTiago_ meant: someone should make a batteryy cover that slips some plugs under the batter and has extrenal plugs for those things20:52
timeless_pidginTiagoTiago: fail20:52
TiagoTiago_what was the correct syntax?20:53
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DocScrutinizerregex are really hard to get right, it seems20:53
timeless_pidginStronger match20:53
timeless_pidginRegexp matches left to right20:54
TiagoTiago_ah, i see20:54
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timeless_pidginSo you needed to not match the first instance20:54
TiagoTiago_i thought it looked for individual words first instead of just the first match20:54
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DocScrutinizerwhich would've been easy, you just append a " "20:54
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TiagoTiago_hm, good point20:54
TiagoTiago_wouldn't have helped if it was the last word int he msg though20:55
TiagoTiago_i guess that is where punctuation is missed20:55
DocScrutinizerbut it helps on / he /20:55
DocScrutinizerinstead of "helped"20:55
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DocScrutinizers/ he / the /20:56
vkvrajuhmm, looked at the mtd2 logs. Didn't understand even a single bit. God please give strength to all those who debug issues based on these logs20:56
DocScrutinizerhe he he20:56
timeless_pidginYou can include words or letters preceding your match, you just have to include them in the replacement20:56
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(20:56
TiagoTiago_ii think someoone the other day said it's not a real regex thing, it just looks like it20:57
SpeedEvilOn emulators -
timeless_pidginOh, and infobots have broken regexp parsing20:57
timeless_pidginDon't expect wild cards or other symbols to work20:57
vkvrajuwhats this infobot thing U all discussing20:57
timeless_pidginInfobot: you?20:58
infobotsomebody said infobot was better than wowbot20:58
DocScrutinizerthey basically have NO regex parsing, just a very elementary string match20:58
* timeless_pidgin points20:58
infobotwell, infobot is better than wowbot20:58
timeless_pidginInfobot: have a botsnack20:58
infobottimeless_pidgin: thanks20:58
vkvrajuis it a real user or just some spam bot stuff ?20:58
timeless_pidginMousey: die.20:58
infobotSince Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 67 modifications, 1161 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 519 commands.  I have been awake for 11d 8h 9s this session, and currently reference 117289 factoids.  I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3637.57/92.97 child 0/020:58
infobotOld enough, yes please, my place.20:58
TiagoTiago_i think the one they use on the Firefox channel at moznet is smarter, or perhaps i'm thinking of another one20:58
* Mousey huggles TiagoTiago_ 20:59
* Mousey huggles timeless 20:59
Mouseyno hugs20:59
TiagoTiago_group hug!!!!20:59
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* infobot hugs everbody and makes it all better...20:59
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vkvrajuBtw guys, anyone from France here ?20:59
timeless_pidginword: Since Thu Sep  2 13:39:07 2010, there have been 1 modifications and 7 questions.  I have been awake for 24 days, 21 hours, 20 minutes, 18 seconds this session, and currently reference 6301 factoids. Addressing is in require mode.20:59
Khertan_n900i am20:59
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timeless_pidginThe infobot here has a large database. I'm unsure about the quality of its database...21:00
vkvrajucool, I MIGHT have to travel to France for few days for an event21:00
vkvrajuSophia Antipolis Cedex21:01
DocScrutinizertimeless_pidgin: 50% are zip codes21:01
Khertan_n900vkvraju : be carefull there are some strike currently21:01
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vkvrajuoh ok21:01
timeless_pidginDocScrutinizer: ...21:01
vkvrajubtw, it will take me another 10 days before I start21:01
timeless_pidginInfobot: airport code HEL?21:02
vkvrajuand I would be there for only 5-6 days21:02
timeless_pidginInfobot: HEL?21:02
infobotmethinks hel is (Hardware Emulation Layer) This provides software-based emulation of features that are not directly available in hardware.21:02
timeless_pidginInfobot: .br?21:02 is, like, Brazil21:02
timeless_pidginInfobot: area code 512?21:02
infobotwell, area code 512 is Austin and Corpus Christi, Texas21:02
ShadowJKfar out21:02
vkvrajuInfobot: .in?21:02
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TiagoTiago_Infobot: FU21:03
timeless_pidginArea codes/zip codes/country codes21:03
TiagoTiago_lol, not what i expected21:03
DocScrutinizer~listkeys zip21:03
infobotFactoid search of 'zip' by key (21 of 42422): zip 17771 ;; zip 18944 ;; zip 19969 ;; zip 22125 ;; zip 2358 ;; zip 33960 ;; zip 37773 ;; zip 40205 ;; zip 42324 ;; zip 44305 ;; zip 49343 ;; zip 49958 ;; zip 58225 ;; zip 59863 ;; zip 60548 ;; zip 61825 ;; zip 6415 ;; zip 6480 ;; zip 65259 ;; zip 66667 ;; zip 67008.21:03
timeless_pidginSometimes vaguely useful21:03
TiagoTiago_Infobot: ~21:03
timeless_pidginInfobot: zip 9021021:03
infobotfrom memory, zip 90210 is Beverly Hills Los Angeles CA21:03
timeless_pidginInfobot: listkeys hel21:04
infobotFactoid search of 'hel' by key (15 of 340): applix shelf ;; asking if they needed help as the linux version ;; devhelp ;; drywall help ;; eggdrop help ;; eggyknapsweebitoforaclehelp ;; status ;; helix's kiss ;; hello hell ;; hello, ;; hello-world ;; helpvampire ;; jargon hello, sailor!2 ;; linuxhelp ;; markybob help.21:04
vkvrajuSo, Khertan, is Sophia Antipolis Cedex entirely the name of the city21:04
timeless_pidginInfobot: listkeys airport21:04
infobotFactoid search of 'airport' by key (18 of 1802): airport bkk ;; airport bpn ;; airport dca ;; airport evn ;; airport flo ;; airport fod ;; airport gig ;; airport isb ;; airport lca ;; airport mee ;; airport mgf ;; airport mle ;; airport nra ;; airport pgv ;; airport pqi ;; airport pto ;; airport pug ;; airport qdb.21:04
* timeless_pidgin kicks pidgin21:05
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DocScrutinizer~airport hel21:05
infobotrumour has it, airport hel is The code for the airport in: Helsinki, Finland21:05
TiagoTiago_~Lady Gaga21:05
vkvrajuBackstreet Boys21:06
DocScrutinizer~tell TiagoTiago_ about query21:06
Khertan_n900vkvraju : i think but it s in the south of france so didn't know21:06
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Khertan_n900if it s not the name of the city it s  the name of the area21:06
vkvrajuoh ok, i am awaiting visa21:06
Khertan_n900a bit like silicon valley21:06
vkvrajuI think once I have my plans confirmed, I would ask more about it21:07
* timeless_pidgin kick pidgin again21:07
vkvrajuBtw, Infobot didn't answer my previous query21:07
vkvrajuInfobot: .in?21:08
timeless_pidginYou got the syntax wrong :)21:08
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vkvrajuwhats the correct one then?21:08
DocScrutinizer~tell vkvraju about query21:09
vkvrajunot yet, is it lunch time for the bot :)21:09
timeless_pidgin"what is (foo-that-may-or-may-not-exist)?"21:10
TiagoTiago_who is apt?21:10
DocScrutinizerapt is infobot21:10 didn't exist. Someone presumably deleted it21:10
vkvrajuhehe :)21:10
DocScrutinizer~factinfo .in21:10 -- created by timeless_pidgin <> 2m 1s ago; it has been requested once, last by timeless_pidgin, 1m 22s ago.21:10
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timeless_pidginWell, just because it *didn't* exist when you asked doesn't mean it shouldn't exist the next time someone asks :)21:11
TiagoTiago_hm, seems infobot can learn by spying what we say21:11
DocScrutinizer~literal .in21:12
infobot".in" is "India"21:12
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timeless_pidginDepends on whether it's in passive or active mode21:12
vkvrajunow I am confused. whats the deal with this timeless_pidgin. I am new to IRC. So, kindly bear with me21:12
DocScrutinizervkvraju: just forget it21:13
DocScrutinizervkvraju: doesn't mean a thing21:13
timeless_pidginIt doesn't matter21:13
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TiagoTiago_timeless is a person, infobot is a bot21:13
DocScrutinizerhaving some fun with a bot21:13
timeless_pidginAnyone you talk to could be a bot, or a dog21:13
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vkvrajuOk, now I got it. hehe21:13
TiagoTiago_or an FBI agent pretending to be an underaged kid21:13
timeless_pidginSome things you talk to might be people21:14
timeless_pidginRegardless of whether you are talking to people or bots, someone might be upset if you misbehave21:14
vkvrajuso, FBI is interested in maemo? Interesting21:14
DocScrutinizeror an underaged kid pretending to be an FBI agent pretending to be an underaged kid21:14
DocScrutinizerFBI is just interested in *you*21:15
timeless_pidginThe point is that you shouldn't misbehave21:15
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vkvrajuwhat about Interpol, scotland yard? are they here too ? :)21:15
timeless_pidginNor should you make assumptions21:15
timeless_pidginThere are 478 connections21:16
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DocScrutinizertey're spying on FBI :-P21:16
timeless_pidginAt least one of which publishes logs21:16
timeless_pidginWhich are indexed by google21:16
vkvrajuok, now back to topic, when can we expect PR 1.4 for our N90021:16
timeless_pidginInfobot: pr1.4?21:16
timeless_pidginInfobot: pr1.3?21:16
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now.....21:16
timeless_pidginInfobot: pr1.4 is extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.4 is a ban'able subject now.....21:17
infobottimeless_pidgin: okay21:17
vkvrajuInfobot: Kill switch?21:17
* infobot shoots a magneto-ionized anti-photon gun at switch21:17
timeless_pidginInfobot tell vkvraju about pr1.421:17
TiagoTiago_~timebomb vkvraju21:18
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vkvrajuInfobot: Nokia rules21:18
TiagoTiago_balls, infobot doesn't know how to play timebomb21:18
vkvraju:( :)21:18
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vkvrajuTiago, try nuclear bomb. It's a modern bot21:19
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TiagoTiago_the explosive technology is less important than the trigger21:19
vkvrajuwhenever I see that N8, I am getting tempted to go for it. The camera module is really amazing there.21:20
TiagoTiago_like that card ad  says "power is nothing without control"21:21
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TiagoTiago_like that car ad says "power is nothing without control"21:21
vkvrajuwas it Toyota ? :)21:21
DocScrutinizerdamn, I need a coffe21:21
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, pr1.4 is <replay> PR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject21:21
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vkvrajuInfobot: ~pr2.421:22
infobotPR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject21:22
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TiagoTiago_infobot: Who's your daddy?21:22
infobotYOU are, Mr Sexy Pants!21:22
DocScrutinizervkvraju: messing too much with infobot also might count as off topic chan spamming (/me going to kick himself)21:23
* TiagoTiago_ rolls eyes21:23
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DocScrutinizeron a general notice:21:24
timeless_pidginIn other news: ...21:24
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infobottalk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query apt" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)21:24
timeless_pidginOh brother21:24
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timeless_pidginI can't copy a history item21:24
* timeless_pidgin stabs someone 21:24
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* mgedmin says "ouch"21:24
TiagoTiago_why not?21:24
timeless_pidginDocscrutinizer: what number is next!21:24
DocScrutinizerlol, 471121:25
DocScrutinizer~ timeless number is 2721:25
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer21:25
jacekowski~ timeless number21:26
infoboti guess timeless number is 2721:26
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: no, timeless number is 2821:26
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer21:26
TiagoTiago_~timeless umber21:27
TiagoTiago_~timeless number21:27
infobotfrom memory, timeless number is 2821:27
timeless_pidginThat number is correct ?21:27
* timeless_pidgin is about to use it21:27
TiagoTiago_i have no idea21:28
timeless_pidginDocscrutinizer ?21:28
h4waiithis hostmode tester thread has become amazing.21:28
DocScrutinizertimeless_pidgin: I lost track of it21:28
h4waiiMohammadAG; I hope you're having a laugh21:28
DocScrutinizertimeless_pidgin: so might be off a few21:28
timeless_pidginMy entries go to 2421:28
DocScrutinizerk, my memories were 25 initially21:29
timeless_pidginIt's possible i spent 25+21:29
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DocScrutinizerthought I must have missed 1 or 221:29
timeless_pidginDid you find a 25?21:29
MohammadAGh4waii, no, I'm about to shoot myself21:29
DocScrutinizerhard to grep the logs for it21:29
MohammadAGunfortunately I'm not licensed to own a gun21:29
DocScrutinizerno special keyword21:29
vkvrajuare there any docks available for the n900, anyone?21:29
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TiagoTiago_does infobot really learns by observing or only when addressed directly?21:30
h4waiiDude, it's pure awesome.21:30
timeless_pidgin25. History and anything like it (bookmarks) need to support basic operations (like copy). After all, if it's important enough to retrieve, it should be available for copying (grr: microb)21:30
MohammadAGonly when addressed21:30
h4waiiI am dying laughing.21:30
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timeless_pidginTiagotiago: this one is in required mode, or at least as it requires a command char is effectiv21:30
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago_: only by direct addressing21:30
TiagoTiago_We need a Misinfobot, that learns from what anyone says21:30
timeless_pidginEly require21:30
DocScrutinizerthough : ...21:31
timeless_pidginWe don't21:31
DocScrutinizer~seen TiagoTiago_21:31
MohammadAGI wish some mods would get off there arses21:31
timeless_pidginTilde foo is bar21:31
timeless_pidginWould teach it21:31
timeless_pidginSo it isn't technically require21:31
infobottiagotiago_ is currently on #maemo (3h 54m 54s). Has said a total of 152 messages. Is idling for 31s, last said: 'We need a Misinfobot, that learns from what anyone says'.21:31
DocScrutinizerdamn, who killed her?21:31
TiagoTiago_Infobot is currently lagging a bit it seems21:32
timeless_pidginMost learning is probably done in private21:32
h4waii~exec forkbomb();21:32
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TiagoTiago_to suspend the setlments constructions, and then start a regime of random bombing and boobytrapping the building sites untill they learn they shouldn't go there, then one last carpetbombing to clean the mines and let the other people come21:35
TiagoTiago_we need to*21:35
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timeless_pidgin:( the box (run by a friend) which had hosted my blog died. That explains why it's offline :(21:37
TiagoTiago_got backups?21:38
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timeless_pidginIt was mostly restored21:38
TiagoTiago_thats good21:38
timeless_pidginBur the web server itself isn't up21:38
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infobottimeless_pidgin meant: But the web server itself isn't up21:39
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TiagoTiago_DocScrutinizer i got gree light, is it safe to turn it on now?21:47
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TiagoTiago_this is an absurd, doesn't got any mp3 indexed for "heads down stay down" !!21:48 script will show you a nice Cycle Count since Learning: 0 Total Cycle21:48
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TiagoTiago_where do i find that?21:54
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TiagoTiago_hm, wait, thaty wasn't it21:58
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TiagoTiago_googling for that isn't helping22:03
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TiagoTiago_running that command Speed suggested, ith near full charge now, it's about 398322:09
TiagoTiago_lshal|grep battery.voltage.current22:09
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TiagoTiago_SpeedEvil: doing the draining battery thing didn't seem to have changed anything...22:10
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TiagoTiago_oh, it was jacekowski that suggested draining22:12
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TiagoTiago_DocScrutinizer is the script you mentioned there this ?22:16
DocScrutinizernot exactly22:16
TiagoTiago_where do i find that bq script you mentioned?22:17
TiagoTiago_lol, that lhal command now is reporting a 4007 instead of  398322:18
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TiagoTiago_indeed the count is zero22:31
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TiagoTiago_would  that in that same address also be of my interest?22:31
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infoboti guess re is religious education22:34
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sivangTiagoTiago_: hehe22:44
sivang"I'm so happy cause today I managed to mak USB networking work!.." (sung in Nirvana's SLTS tune)22:44
sivangso stupid wok network had the range which is default to setup offered in the wiki , MADDE or anything mentioned about it for that matter.22:45
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sivangI am now using 10.100.10.x and it works like a harm22:45
sivangerr, charm22:45
sivang(laptop is unplugged and is mostly idle so keystrokes are missed)22:46
sivangbut you know what? sb runs surprisingly well on it22:46
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sivangnow we can rock on, not to install sshfs/nfs to rsync for full backup22:46
sivangactually better save it on the uSD22:47
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sivangwhat I don't get it is, once I added my DNS server ip address to the device, it can access the whole wide world. Is ipv4_forward = 1 by default in recent Ubuntus?22:54
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mgedminnot unless you install something like ipmasq22:57
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sivangmgedmin: doesn't seem to have it, why does forwarding works then?22:59
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sivangmgedmin: packages reach the device back without problem, only thing I needed to do was add my DNS in /etc/resolv.conf22:59
mgedminsomething must have turned it on23:00
sivangI should say, packets23:00
* sivang checks23:00
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sivangbtw, for those with whom I discussed the unsupported wifi chip through 9.04 that rumors has it is now in 10.04's kernel is rtl819xSE23:03
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sivangah no more echo > .../ipv4 something, only sysctl?23:07
mgedminboth work23:07
mgedminsysctl is a bit nicer perhaps23:07
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mgedminno jumping through hoops if you need to use sudo23:07
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sivangright, so judging by sysctl v4 forwarding is not enabled23:08
sivangI mean, by the sysctl.conf file23:08
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sivanghey h4waii23:09
sivanghow odd23:10
sivangsysctl reports that it is turned off, maybe network manager has some in built forwarding it does on its own??23:11
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* sivang hates it when things work and he does not know why23:11
h4waiiI am still looking for the config that controls the Phone app rotation.23:11
sivangI prefert them to break otherwise :)23:11
mgedminnetwork manager has an option for internet sharing, but afaiu it turns on that sysctl and spawns dnsmasq as a dns/dhcp server23:12
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sivangmgedmin: dnsmasq is intsalled, but not running23:13
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sivangh4waii: you want to stop it form rotating?23:14
h4waiiI want to know where the config file is.23:15
h4waiiThere is a static text conf23:15
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h4waiiIt's in a dothidden directory.23:15
sivangh4waii: I see, maybe retcomm something ?23:15
sivangthere are two packages, phonet, and phonet-at23:18
* sivang tries to poke at them23:18
h4waiiThat has nothing to do with what I'm looking for.23:18
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h4waiiFFS. Thank you.23:20
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TiagoTiago_well, i'm heading off, cya23:23
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sivangMohammadAG: interestingly, [sudo] password for sivan:23:27
sivangnet.ipv4.ip_forward = 023:27
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sivangMohammadAG: oops, I meant: lsof | grep rtcom | grep ui does not cover the settings file, when is it accessed?23:28
h4waiisivang - what are you talking about?23:28
sivangh4waii: trynig to find what files the call ui proram access23:29
h4waiiFor what purposes?23:29
MohammadAGonly that23:29
sivangMohammadAG: ?23:29
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MohammadAGthe settings file is accessed at the startup of the phone app23:29
MohammadAGkillall -9 rtcom-call-ui23:30
jacekowskithat will reboot your phone23:30
sivangMohammadAG: ah I see23:30
h4waiiHas renice been ported?23:30
MohammadAGit will just kill the phone app23:30
sivangso maybe watch -n1 would help here23:30
jacekowskiand dsme will restart it23:30
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jacekowskiand after you kill it 3rd time dsme will reboot phone23:31
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MohammadAGnot sure about that23:31
MohammadAGbut kiling it once doesn't reboot the phone23:31
sivangjacekowski: what's dsme?23:31
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luke-jr__sivang: some useless daemon in Maemo23:32
sivangoh damn right, the app is there idling until it's is called23:32
luke-jr__it doesn't actually do nything *useful* that I know of :p23:32
jacekowski~dsme is Device State Managment Entity23:32
infobotjacekowski: okay23:32
jacekowskii hope i spelled it right23:32
sivangyes, that's what the deb pkg desc says23:33
sivangbut "Is it alive??" (tm)23:33
sivangor waht does it do?23:33
jacekowskiit's dealing with watchdogs23:33
jacekowskiand keeping important apps alive23:34
sivanglike the phone app?23:34
jacekowskiand xorg23:34
jacekowskiand bme23:34
sivangwatchdogs are central to embedded development, we have one in PlugPC23:34
jacekowskiand pa23:34
jacekowskiwe have loads of them in maemo23:34
sivangjacekowski: is pa important app? :-p </excuse the viciousness>23:35
jacekowskiyeah, sound would die without it23:35
sivangyeah I Know23:35
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sivangbad joke23:35
jacekowskiso unless you replace it it's important23:35
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sivangI tried reading the other day about its routing paradigm23:36
sivangit is one hell of complicate piece of software, at least according to docs about it. (never looked at the sources)23:36
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sivangI guess the watchdog is fairly good, given I'v never seen my phone drop to a terminal23:37
jacekowskiit's complicated solution to simple problem23:37
sivangthat mandriva guy has a fairly nice and drilling address at it23:38
sivanghe also has ideas for improvement, especially with the stream restoration23:38
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sivanghmm, ufw is also disabled so no idea why forwarding works23:39
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MohammadAG~dsme is actually Device State Management Entity23:40
infobot...but dsme is already something else...23:40
MohammadAGthat's why I'm correcting you idiot23:41
MohammadAG~dsme is Device State Management Entity23:41
infobot...but dsme is already something else...23:41
* MohammadAG facesmacks23:41
MohammadAG~forget dsme23:41
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infobotMohammadAG: i forgot dsme23:41
MohammadAG~dsme is Device State Management Entity23:41
infobotMohammadAG: okay23:41
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* sivang wonders what happens on the phone if Xorg is killed23:42
sivangjacekowski: what other watchdogs do we have in the platform?23:43
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jacekowskiread trm and stuff23:43
SpeedEvilIIRC it reboots23:44
jacekowskithere is hardware wd in case dsme dies23:44
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alteregoThat bugger that restarts the device after 30s23:44
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sivangjacekowski: high precision timers?23:45
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jacktheripperhow can I upload into the SDK repos ?23:46
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sivangipv6 forwarding is also disabled23:48
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jacktheripperI'm trying to upload a library to extras, where do I upload the -dev package ?23:55
MohammadAGwhenever I unlock the screen my N900 reboots23:56
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MohammadAGjacktheripper, extras23:57
jacktheripperMohammadAG, development is supposed to be done on the SDK right ?23:57
jacktheripperwell, is the extras repo available for the sdk ?23:58

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