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| MohammadAG51 | does the N900 support C#? | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| tripzero | mono is not in the repo iirc | 00:06 |
| tripzero | but imho, would be cool if it was... | 00:07 |
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| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, yes'ish | 00:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | i hear | 00:14 |
| Noobmonk3y | not that i would actually know ;) | 00:14 |
| fnordianslip | MohammadAG51: I've found my USB F/F adapter. You still need something? | 00:14 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, there is a mono compiler | 00:16 |
| lcuk | but to use it | 00:16 |
| MohammadAG | fnordianslip, nope, just keep it close, you'll need it in a few days :P | 00:16 |
| lcuk | you have to add new things into scratchbox | 00:16 |
| fnordianslip | okey dokey :) | 00:17 |
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| * MohammadAG has a suggestion, please consider it, pretty please? :P | 00:47 | |
| MohammadAG | Israel for next year's conference! :P | 00:47 |
| kerio | you mean palestine? | 00:48 |
| MohammadAG | indifferent tbh | 00:49 |
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| MohammadAG | but you're more likely to hear rumors about being shot there than in IL :P | 00:49 |
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| Malin_ | anyone using the N900 in Norway with netcom, and now how to recive mms without opening via the mms-reader on netcom's webpage? | 00:59 |
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| lcuk | hmm Malin_ | 01:02 |
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| lcuk | were the defaults already available on the APN config? | 01:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | fmms | 01:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | malin | 01:04 |
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| lcuk | Malin_ even. SpeedEvil hmm I hadn't considered that fmms isn't actually on everyones machines yet! | 01:06 |
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| kerio | fmms is not, nor it will be, on my n900 | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | kerio, can I ask why? | 01:10 |
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| kerio | because MMSes are just a way for phone companies to make even *more* money by transporting bits | 01:11 |
| kerio | crappy specs, crappy support on most phones, stupid restrictions on most carriers, and overall absolutely *no* advantage over emails | 01:12 |
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| lcuk | kerio, it has many advantages and the restrictions are there based on historical stuff, every codebase is the same | 01:12 |
| kerio | what advantages? | 01:13 |
| lcuk | but the power of sending a 0 config (normally!) photograph to someone person to person is immense | 01:13 |
| kerio | my phone company sends me a sms when i get an email on the associated email address | 01:13 |
| kerio | lcuk: except that most people don't have MMSes configured | 01:13 |
| kerio | and won't care | 01:13 |
| lcuk | my phone company sends me a photo when someonesends it me | 01:13 |
| lcuk | and have done on every phone I have used | 01:13 |
| lcuk | i have never gotten an email on my phone | 01:14 |
| lcuk | well, outside gmail | 01:14 |
| lcuk | my mum hasnt got email configured | 01:14 |
| kerio | [insert ur mom joke] | 01:14 |
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| lcuk | kerio, grow up | 01:17 |
| kerio | i don't want to grow up :( | 01:17 |
| lcuk | reasonable enough, does your mum have email setup on her phone? | 01:19 |
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| kerio | lcuk: well, no | 01:29 |
| kerio | but she has a crappy phone anyway | 01:29 |
| kerio | not worth watching photos on such a tiny screen | 01:29 |
| kerio | plus i'm not sure her MMSes work | 01:29 |
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| lcuk | kerio, try it, surprise her and send a pic of you smiling :) | 01:45 |
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| Kevvy9 | Click ------> #tdwiki-voteout <------ click it | 01:55 |
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| Malin_ | lcuk: I have fmms on my phone, so I am pretty sure I can send mms, but I have not sucseeded in reciving one yet | 02:15 |
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| Malin_ | I hear someone says I have to be disconnected from wifi, to recive mmms | 02:23 |
| Malin_ | ooops, mms | 02:23 |
| Malin_ | But it late here, so I have to go to bed :) | 02:24 |
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| massoud | Hi there late :) | 02:37 |
| massoud | what should be the best/nicest way to sync my n900 w/ my debian ? | 02:37 |
| kfx | sync what | 02:39 |
| massoud | sync agenda/contacts/messages | 02:40 |
| massoud | kfx : i am using kontact/kde on my debian | 02:40 |
| kfx | massoud: that has been the subject of a kde google summer of code project two years running | 02:41 |
| jarkkom | I guess you could make both sync to google calendar | 02:41 |
| kfx | they almost got it working last year and this year they started from scratch | 02:41 |
| jarkkom | except it keeps on breaking in mysterious ways | 02:41 |
| kfx | so currently yes you need some form of middleware | 02:41 |
| jarkkom | actual calendar database is just sqlite database though, so hacking that isn't too difficult | 02:42 |
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| massoud | kfx: any middleware working in the meantime ? | 02:42 |
| massoud | thanks for this update on the g summer of code info | 02:43 |
| kfx | I've had reasonable results using sogo,syncevolution,and kontact or thunderbird | 02:43 |
| kfx | but sogo is not easy to set up | 02:43 |
| kfx | you might try using scheduleworld or some such, or if you have no objections to google just sync to their stuff on both ends | 02:44 |
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| massoud | kfx: so i should try sogo, syncrevolution and kontact ? | 02:46 |
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| kfx | massoud: you need to be very good at configuring software on linux for sogo to be your solution | 02:47 |
| kfx | it requres installing a large-ish gnustep software stack, then sogo, then a funambol connector with a correctly configured tomcat instance | 02:47 |
| kfx | I used centos to simplify things a bit, but it is not a trivial task | 02:47 |
| kfx | then you have to manually configure syncevolution the old-fashioned "create a million text files" method | 02:48 |
| kfx | and also spend a lot of time praying | 02:48 |
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| massoud | kfx: wouah funambol + tomcat :) | 02:50 |
| kfx | funambol ships tomcat, that's how it talks to the world by default | 02:50 |
| kfx | after several days of trying to cram a wildcard cert plus intermediate certs into tomcat I just proxied the goddamn thing behind apache :/ | 02:51 |
| luke-jr | lol | 02:51 |
| massoud | lol | 02:51 |
| kfx | I hate just about every aspect of java | 02:52 |
| kfx | but the keystore is phenomenally retarded | 02:52 |
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| fredrinN900 | how to get xchat on maemo to run in fullscreen? | 03:50 |
| pupnik | last one i used didn't support that fredrinN900 | 03:52 |
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| fredrinN900 | strange | 03:52 |
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| fredrinN900 | what clients do people use on their n900? | 03:53 |
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| pupnik | irssi here fredrinN900 | 03:55 |
| pupnik | xchat is very popular though | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | xchat here | 04:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | ctrl-enter | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | I wish there was a Quassel client build | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Would be nice. | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | With a quassel-text-client too | 04:04 |
| luke-jr | pfft text clients | 04:04 |
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| n900evil | What was the alternative to camkeyd? | 04:14 |
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| fredrinN900 | speedevil: thanks | 04:16 |
| fredrinN900 | and tab? | 04:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | I believe the default binding is alt-rightarrow | 04:16 |
| fredrinN900 | for nick autocomplete? | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | alt-space | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | shift space even | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I havre it set as shift-rightarrow | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | makes you wonder what idiot designed the NIT keyboards | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | to omit the tab key | 04:17 |
| fredrinN900 | SpeedEvil: nice | 04:17 |
| fredrinN900 | true | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | personally, I mapped the Fullscreen key to tab on my N810, but n900 does't hae it :/ | 04:18 |
| TermanaDesire | luke-jr: what other mobile device includes a tab kettle? | 04:18 |
| TermanaDesire | Key* | 04:18 |
| SpeedEvil | settings -> advanced -> keyboard | 04:18 |
| TermanaDesire | Tab kettle as well though | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | TermanaDesire: all the Sharp handhelds? | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: ? | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: the Settings app can make the N900 keyboard grow? | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:19 |
| TermanaDesire | luke-jr: yeah and how outdated are those things now? | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | You set it right, and an IBM clicky keyboard pops out. | 04:19 |
| * fredrinN900 is happy with nickcomplete and fullscreen | 04:19 | |
| luke-jr | TermanaDesire: quite. Hence my $800 bounty toward a good handheld. | 04:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Be careful you don't enable this in a pocket | 04:19 |
| fredrinN900 | and ctrl + backspace for multitaks | 04:20 |
| TermanaDesire | SpeedEvil: :p so that's the n900's Easter egg | 04:20 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 04:20 |
| SpeedEvil | 14 people have been killed by activating the church organ keyboard. | 04:22 |
| fredrinN900 | :) | 04:22 |
| TermanaDesire | And you know what the n900's Christmas present is don't you? | 04:22 |
| fredrinN900 | pr1.3 | 04:23 |
| TermanaDesire | BME | 04:23 |
| * TermanaDesire cackles | 04:23 | |
| fredrinN900 | eh? | 04:24 |
| * fredrinN900 want gnome cheese photobooth for the front cam to take party pics :D | 04:25 | |
| fredrinN900 | even for the back cam | 04:26 |
| fredrinN900 | what do people use the front cam for? | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | … | 04:27 |
| luke-jr | which side do you consider front? | 04:28 |
| TermanaDesire | Lol | 04:28 |
| luke-jr | I use the 5 MP side for taking pictures and videos | 04:28 |
| luke-jr | and the VGA side for video calls | 04:28 |
| fredrinN900 | vga | 04:28 |
| TermanaDesire | luke-jr is obviously our resident nut case | 04:28 |
| luke-jr | … | 04:29 |
| fredrinN900 | i've only used it for vidcalls myself | 04:29 |
| fredrinN900 | both gmail and skype vidcalls | 04:29 |
| TermanaDesire | luke-jr: how could you not know what he meant by front? | 04:29 |
| asj | TermanaDesire: he's very pedantic | 04:30 |
| luke-jr | TermanaDesire: when I hold my N900 in the car, the 5 MP side is in the front. | 04:30 |
| luke-jr | when it sits flat on my desk, the VGA side is front | 04:30 |
| fredrinN900 | would like to have a virtual cam aswell so i could show pics or just stream music over skype | 04:30 |
| fredrinN900 | be remote dj :D | 04:30 |
| luke-jr | … | 04:30 |
| TermanaDesire | luke-jr: I see, so you view the screen by looking at it in the mirror? | 04:30 |
| fredrinN900 | on skypeparties | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | fredrinN900: if you're going to be a remote DJ, just use MPD | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | TermanaDesire: no | 04:31 |
| asj | TermanaDesire: 2 mirrors otherwise it's backwards ;) | 04:31 |
| johnx | fredrinN900, huh, that's kind of an interesting idea | 04:31 |
| fredrinN900 | nah, more people have skype installed | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | … | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | no, they don't. | 04:31 |
| luke-jr | more people have Windows Media Player installed | 04:31 |
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| luke-jr | which AFAIK can stream Shoutcast fine | 04:31 |
| fredrinN900 | webcamstudio is nice on ubuntu | 04:31 |
| fredrinN900 | luke-jr: true | 04:32 |
| johnx | would be cool to have a 'screencast' virtual input for v4l | 04:32 |
| fredrinN900 | a vloopback driver exist | 04:32 |
| johnx | might not do the trick for video very well though | 04:32 |
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| luke-jr | would be nice if we could get a Skype that was compatible with something other than Windows tho | 04:33 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, eh? our skype can't call linux/mac? | 04:34 |
| luke-jr | johnx: not with video | 04:34 |
| fredrinN900 | yes | 04:34 |
| wmarone | linux/mac clients are out of date | 04:34 |
| johnx | ugh | 04:34 |
| johnx | that's pretty lame | 04:34 |
| wmarone | yup | 04:34 |
| fredrinN900 | eh, lame | 04:35 |
| fredrinN900 | if true | 04:35 |
| luke-jr | no good reason for the limitation etiher afaik | 04:35 |
| luke-jr | just a codec mismatch | 04:35 |
| wmarone | luke-jr: nope, but only skype can fix it | 04:35 |
| luke-jr | N900 probably has the right codec, but Skype won't use it | 04:35 |
| luke-jr | wmarone: Nokia can't fix the N900 to support the old codec? | 04:35 |
| wmarone | doubtful | 04:35 |
| wmarone | I suspect it's entirely something within the skype libraries | 04:36 |
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| luke-jr | :/ | 04:36 |
| wmarone | either on the N900 or in the linux/mac clients | 04:36 |
| luke-jr | I'm sure on the Linux/Mac cleints | 04:36 |
| luke-jr | N900 it would seem Nokia has code for | 04:36 |
| wmarone | seem | 04:36 |
| luke-jr | it'd be outright irresponsible for them to ship a blob they don't have code or | 04:37 |
| luke-jr | for* | 04:37 |
| wmarone | not really, i'd be more surprised if that wasn't common practice | 04:37 |
| johnx | luke-jr, you know they do that for other things anyways. why is it surprising? | 04:37 |
| luke-jr | johnx: do they? | 04:47 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, uhm, the SGX drivers for one? | 04:59 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: Nokia doesn't have the code for those⁇ | 04:59 |
| johnx | they might. I'd bet they actually don't | 05:00 |
| luke-jr | … | 05:00 |
| luke-jr | there should be a law against selling a product you can't vouch for | 05:00 |
| johnx | so if they didn't design every chip in the device, they couldn't sell it? | 05:01 |
| luke-jr | if they don't have the designs for it ;p | 05:01 |
| wmarone | nothing would get done | 05:01 |
| wmarone | certainly an improvement | 05:01 |
| johnx | luke-jr, no more trade secrets? | 05:02 |
| luke-jr | wmarone: more like all of a sudden everyone goes open source | 05:02 |
| wmarone | well, no | 05:02 |
| luke-jr | wmarone: they wouldn't have a choice. | 05:02 |
| luke-jr | johnx: trade secrets are … trade | 05:02 |
| luke-jr | not design | 05:02 |
| wmarone | luke-jr: do tell, why would anyone put in the effort to design a circuit if they could sell it once? | 05:02 |
| luke-jr | wmarone: nobody said they could only sell it once | 05:03 |
| wmarone | sure | 05:03 |
| wmarone | every corporation interested in the bottom line | 05:03 |
| luke-jr | and if that were in fact the case, they just need to set the price right | 05:03 |
| wmarone | nah | 05:03 |
| wmarone | they'd just go to trade-secret and find a way to make the chip opaque to x-ray and self destruct when decapped | 05:04 |
| luke-jr | that'd be illegal | 05:04 |
| kfx | ⁇ | 05:04 |
| kfx | what the hell | 05:04 |
| kfx | this can't be easier than just typing ?? | 05:05 |
| johnx | kfx, hand writing recognition? | 05:05 |
| pupnik | skype has been around for a long time with a very useful binary vector into many systems behind firewalls | 05:05 |
| kfx | I think you mean "...recognitio" | 05:05 |
| kfx | oh that's like three unicode chars too | 05:06 |
| kfx | nice | 05:06 |
| kfx | I miss 1987 | 05:06 |
| pupnik | i miss not having to deal with internationalization | 05:06 |
| pupnik | back when learning a program was intensive work enough to make the language irrelevant | 05:07 |
| kfx | stupid plan9 had to make utf-8 libs that made sense | 05:07 |
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| kfx | then evvverybody had to get in on it | 05:07 |
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| vkvraju | Hi All, | 05:25 |
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| vkvraju | Am I the only one seeking noise here? | 06:00 |
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| fredrinN900 | no | 06:41 |
| fredrinN900 | none european people with borked sleeping schedule? | 06:43 |
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| * fredrinN900 needs some good podcasts | 06:44 | |
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| Termana | fredrinN900, This Week in Google or The Linux Action Show? | 07:00 |
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| lolloo | hello there | 07:08 |
| lolloo | why isnt maemo notifier plugin for xchat not working for m N900? | 07:08 |
| lolloo | it doent notifiy me neither with sounds or lights | 07:09 |
| lolloo | how can I edit the text config for the plugin? | 07:09 |
| lolloo | maybe there is someline coding need to be changed | 07:09 |
| lolloo | any you guys know whereor how I can edit the file for the plugin? | 07:10 |
| Termana | lolloo, do you often forget where you leave your keys? | 07:10 |
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| lolloo | where is the place of the file? | 07:10 |
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| lolloo | which directory I can find in xchat notifier plugin | 07:10 |
| lolloo | ? | 07:10 |
| Termana | Because apparently you often forget that you ask the same question every day and fail to realise that the same people who gave you an answer last time are the same regulars that idle here. | 07:11 |
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| lolloo | no one gave me an answer | 07:11 |
| lolloo | and I think its ok to ask many times. | 07:11 |
| lolloo | until someone replies | 07:11 |
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| lolloo | so where can I find the file directory? | 07:11 |
| lolloo | for xchat maemo notifier | 07:12 |
| lolloo | plugin | 07:12 |
| lolloo | is it hard for you to answer? | 07:12 |
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| lolloo | I know the directory is something /.xchat2/ | 07:13 |
| lolloo | but what is something | 07:13 |
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| lolloo | where can I find that directory | 07:14 |
| lolloo | where is it on my phone? | 07:14 |
| johnx | dude. if someone knows and wants to answer they will | 07:14 |
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| johnx | if you're annoying to the people who know the answer, they're less likely to help you | 07:14 |
| lolloo | am giving hints | 07:15 |
| johnx | you're being annoying, which is why I'm not helping you. Dunno about other people. A lot of the people who know probably already have you on /ignore | 07:15 |
| fredrinN900 | or sleep | 07:19 |
| lolloo | omg all that | 07:20 |
| lolloo | whatever | 07:20 |
| pupnik | lolloo: you can open a shell and do a "ls -al |more" to see what hidden directories are in your cwd | 07:21 |
| pupnik | along with all other stuff | 07:21 |
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| lolloo | Alright! | 07:23 |
| fredrinN900 | :) | 07:24 |
| fredrinN900 | good boy | 07:24 |
| Termana | You could find just hidden directories/files with "find . -name ".*" | more" | 07:24 |
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| Termana | Rather then list everything | 07:24 |
| fredrinN900 | less | 07:25 |
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| jansy | hi trying to ssh to laptop.In xterminal and type ssh but keep getting -sh: ssh: not found | 07:26 |
| fredrinN900 | you need to install ssh | 07:27 |
| jansy | i have ssh daemon switched on | 07:27 |
| fredrinN900 | client | 07:27 |
| jansy | like openssh ? | 07:27 |
| fredrinN900 | not server | 07:27 |
| fredrinN900 | openssh client | 07:28 |
| jansy | thanks mate I'll try | 07:28 |
| fredrinN900 | yes | 07:28 |
| fredrinN900 | np | 07:28 |
| fredrinN900 | report back | 07:28 |
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| pupnik | probably got distracted by its' own tail | 07:41 |
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| johnx | For the record, I don't have a problem with people asking questions, even lots of questions. I do get annoyed when people act like they deserve help simply because they exist and especially when they don't use google and/or RTFM | 07:44 |
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| Termana | Oh he's gone | 07:45 |
| Termana | gees - I wish we had laws to prevent being from being such dumb arses | 07:46 |
| Termana | :P | 07:46 |
| johnx | I really think he didn't know about /ignore ... | 07:46 |
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| Termana | Most of the channel has him on ignore. I don't simply because I hate putting people on ignore. Makes it hard to follow IRC conversations if that person is actually being useful and apart of it. | 07:47 |
| luke-jr | /ignore is for people who can't ignore mentally? :P | 07:48 |
| johnx | luke-jr, true enough. I'll be the first to admit that's me. Though when I'm in a state of mind where the noise distracts me, I just turn off *all* the noise ;) | 07:49 |
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| dospod | hi old friends | 09:12 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | who's he calling old? | 09:17 |
| dospod | everyone that was here around 2 years ago | 09:18 |
| Termana | jpinx-eeepc, no one he's only saying hi to anyone that is old | 09:18 |
| Termana | :P | 09:18 |
| * jpinx-eeepc qualifies -- new here - but old everywhere else :( | 09:19 | |
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| Termana | jpinx-eeepc, would it make you happier if I get the hell off your lawn? | 09:21 |
| jpinx-eeepc | heh | 09:21 |
| mece | LOL | 09:24 |
| mece | daaaaaamn! Stupid pre mob. | 09:24 |
| mece | http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html | 09:24 |
| dospod | anybody still use a n800 | 09:25 |
| mece | dospod, I believe quite many do actually. | 09:26 |
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| dospod | I may be trying to get ahold of one again soon | 09:26 |
| dospod | miss the damn thing so much | 09:26 |
| mece | why not n810? | 09:28 |
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| dospod | the only thing I liked about them was the keyboard.... | 09:29 |
| dospod | plus I only have spare sd cards so I want the n800 | 09:29 |
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| mece | I thought the keyboard was the only thing different.. | 09:30 |
| dospod | only one card slot and its mini sd | 09:31 |
| jjo | yeah, different memory cards in all the tablets | 09:32 |
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| dospod | kinda lame | 09:32 |
| mece | I see. Not something that would affect me in any way, but then again I've never had one :) | 09:33 |
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| dospod | the n800 was so nice for me when I had it my sophomore and junior year of high school | 09:34 |
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| dospod | on the fly torrent downloading for when I visited family , xchat , browser, games, media support, webcam , etc... | 09:34 |
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| dospod | well I got class at 9 tommorow so goodnight everybody | 09:39 |
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| mece | omg it's wednesday! | 10:12 |
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| mece | which hence forth shall be known as MeeGoday | 10:13 |
| Termana | mece, why? | 10:13 |
| Termana | Nothing special is happening with MeeGo today, why would you call it MeeGoday? :P | 10:14 |
| mece | meego weekly build come wednesdays. Unless there's trouble. | 10:14 |
| mece | Stskeeps, is there trouble? | 10:14 |
| Termana | Oh right, the weekly build :P I guess that's exciting | 10:14 |
| mece | Termana, well it's the most exciting thing happening happening in meego on this side of development. | 10:15 |
| mece | Termana, this side being the side that doesn't develop meego. | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | mece: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/HandsetTestReport/N900Sanity20100921 | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | no not horribly | 10:16 |
| Duckboot | Stskeeps: No Highlights? | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | Duckboot: the bigger highlights were in earlier | 10:17 |
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| mece | LOL | 10:17 |
| mece | eh unable to launch browser ey... well that's a bit of a bummer. | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | mece: i just spent my evening yesterday debugging the issue | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | i officially hate fennec from now on | 10:18 |
| mece | Stskeeps, did you find the fault? | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | mece: it's a reproducable problem | 10:20 |
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| * RST38h yawns | 10:45 | |
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| RST38h | helo lcuk | 10:47 |
| johnx | m00f RST38h | 10:47 |
| RST38h | moo johnx | 10:47 |
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| johnx | RST38h, what's new in your half of the world? | 10:49 |
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| lcuk | hey RST38h johnx | 10:50 |
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| RST38h | johnx: rain. | 10:51 |
| rmrfchik | wazzup | 10:51 |
| johnx | so rain is new huh? yet another thing that seattle invented | 10:51 |
| RST38h | ehhehe | 10:52 |
| johnx | we had rain before it was cool | 10:52 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:56 |
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| spinningcompass | Scotland invented rain, but Thomas Edison filed the first patent. | 11:00 |
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| crashanddie | spinningcompass: Scotland invented rain? | 11:04 |
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| johnx | crashanddie, yeah. but seattle made it cool | 11:07 |
| RST38h | johnx: and will have rain long after there is somebody to enjoy it =) | 11:07 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, trends do seem to stick around even after it seems like all their fans have moved on | 11:08 |
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| jacktheripper | we're losing! http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html | 12:02 |
| Papayawhip | vote for the n900 :D http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html it shouldn't loose against palm pre^^ | 12:02 |
| jacktheripper | rofl | 12:02 |
| Papayawhip | pwned xD | 12:02 |
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| SunilThaha | Hi, could you please give pointers on how to get the libimmvibe installed in my scratchbox? | 12:05 |
| SunilThaha | I am talking about the lib in this link - http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_nokia-applications_explicit_armel/immvibe/3.4.52-maemo0/ | 12:05 |
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| Stskeeps | not sure you can | 12:06 |
| SunilThaha | Stskeeps, is that reply for me? | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 12:07 |
| SunilThaha | oh ... why is it that I cannot install that in scratchbox ? | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | it's authenticated by the device ID, i think | 12:07 |
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| SunilThaha | Stskeeps, I did not get you | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | basically that lib is not a 'maemo' api, to my knowledge, ie, no development headers for it | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | and it is only downloadable by the device itself | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | (n900) | 12:08 |
| SunilThaha | so you mean to say .. there is no libimmvibe-dev package available? | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 12:10 |
| SunilThaha | I am confused .. how is it useful to have a lib installable only in device and there isn't a dev package there | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 12:12 |
| jacktheripper | anyone knows when's the poll ending ? | 12:12 |
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| jacekowski | yesterday | 12:14 |
| jacekowski | hmm, today | 12:14 |
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| jacktheripper | :/ | 12:15 |
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| Papayawhip | aww and the desktop development image is still missing -.- | 12:17 |
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| Papayawhip | and wow... one torrent seeder | 12:18 |
| Papayawhip | can somebody upload the latest raw ubuntu desktop development image? | 12:21 |
| jacekowski | download it from www | 12:21 |
| jacekowski | not via torrent | 12:21 |
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| Papayawhip | it's missing | 12:21 |
| Papayawhip | there is only the server version with nothing in it | 12:21 |
| jacekowski | http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/download.html | 12:22 |
| Papayawhip | klick the link | 12:22 |
| Papayawhip | you will see there is no desktop image | 12:23 |
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| Papayawhip | i dont know why nokia removed this image | 12:23 |
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| Papayawhip | i just want to open eclipse and develop my application... in this case i have to build my own image... and this sucks | 12:25 |
| MiXu- | It was pretty old | 12:25 |
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| Papayawhip | MiXu-: apt-get upgrade should solve this | 12:26 |
| MiXu- | And besides the old image didn't even have the qt tools | 12:27 |
| MiXu- | This just in from #qt: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html | 12:28 |
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| MiXu- | If you want scratchbox then that you'll have to install yourself | 12:29 |
| MiXu- | But why bother when you can run stuff directly on the N900 | 12:29 |
| Papayawhip | sdk and scratbox have their own repos. i think this is no problem to keep this up to date | 12:30 |
| lcuk | MiXu-, scratchbox helps with larger builds and full build system compatability | 12:30 |
| crashanddie | also, historically, due to the rootfs size issue, installing build-essential on the NIT really crippled the device in terms of usability (as did most ill-thought applications) | 12:31 |
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| Papayawhip | use somone this image? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/PC/vpc-sdk/ | 12:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moo | 12:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a 'noob' question: how should I do a (preferably) *complete* backup of kernel and rootfs of a N900, prior to reflashing? | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | i rsync rootfs to a sd card with -aHx | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess kernel backup is futile | 12:53 |
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| Stskeeps | kernel.. well, it's certainly an interesting task | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | grab it from a FIASCO image or the deb | 12:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok, maybe I got neither of both | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | but actually that's not my problem ATM, and in the end who cares about PR1.1 :-P | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | also FIASCO for second and >>Third Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900<< still on Nokia's server | 12:58 |
| Scelt | frals: what library you use to rescale mms images? it takes amazingly long time comparing to the efficiency of f.e. imagemagick | 12:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: mind to toss me the rsync line for c&p, I'm still waiting for coffee to kick in ;-) | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | rsync -aHx / /microsd | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | ext3 fs preferred | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | and then i make a ubifs out of it | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | and refresh | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | er, reflash | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | as it happens, I got a ext3 partition of ~4GB on my card :-D | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | (check mer-project.blogspot.com) | 13:05 |
| Papayawhip | hmh prefer rsync backup to a remote machine :D | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks :-) | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Papayawhip: I was pondeing the same, but my laptop also is @98% or sth (thanks to scratchbox :-/) | 13:06 |
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| Papayawhip | you should buy a big NAS :D | 13:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | isn't it funny you need xxGB of development system to build a 4MB kernel :-P | 13:08 |
| Papayawhip | hehe | 13:09 |
| Papayawhip | http://pastebox.de/3EWvgaQY4q/ this is my backup script | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | (buy NAS) waiting for someone to sponsor it XD | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | a decent dsktop PC with 1 or 2 TB storage would maybe help as well | 13:10 |
| kerio | i have a nas :3 | 13:11 |
| nidO | my nas is just a pc | 13:11 |
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| Papayawhip | the acer 340 nas is a nice device... but with windows homeserver as default operationg system -.- | 13:11 |
| nidO | 5x750gb drives in raid5 with a hot standby works nicely | 13:12 |
| kerio | i have a sheevaplug + a 1tb usb drive | 13:12 |
| Papayawhip | nice^^ | 13:12 |
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| Papayawhip | just have 2x2TB (raid 1) and one 1TB for transport | 13:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | should backup to one of my net boxes :-P | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe even load off the whole scary scratchbox to there | 13:14 |
| Papayawhip | yep, but u should create a tar first :D | 13:14 |
| nidO | big amounts of storage is supercheap and easy these days :< | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | my coffe isn't supercheap, everything else another class of considerations | 13:15 |
| Papayawhip | if i understand the amazon cloud pricing list... 1TB net storage 2$ / week? | 13:15 |
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| jacekowski | yeah | 13:16 |
| jacekowski | just storag | 13:16 |
| jacekowski | storage | 13:16 |
| Papayawhip | jep | 13:16 |
| jacekowski | but you have to pay for transfer | 13:17 |
| jacekowski | and for request | 13:17 |
| nidO | via s3 it's what, 1.5 cents per gb per month isnt it, then transfer costs on top of it | 13:17 |
| kerio | :o | 13:17 |
| kerio | it's a lot! | 13:17 |
| kerio | i would buy more HDs, but the problem is that i only have one usb port on the sheevaplug | 13:17 |
| kerio | ._. | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | use a hub :-P | 13:18 |
| Shadikka | USB hubs aren't that expensive | 13:18 |
| kerio | using a hub is just not the same thing | 13:18 |
| kerio | and i'm using one | 13:18 |
| Shadikka | heh, quite a timing | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | USB sucks tbh | 13:18 |
| kerio | it does | 13:18 |
| * Papayawhip is waiting for organic HDD's :P | 13:18 | |
| kerio | but meh, all i have to do is download massive amounts of music, videos and softwar | 13:18 |
| kerio | e | 13:18 |
| kerio | i mean, $LEGAL_STUFF | 13:18 |
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| Papayawhip | vote! vote! vote! :D http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html | 13:19 |
| merlin1991 | nah we're beaten, gotta stand to that | 13:20 |
| Papayawhip | hmh, we have the bigger community | 13:20 |
| Papayawhip | and more skills in manipulateing software xD | 13:21 |
| merlin1991 | yeah, script the hell out of that page | 13:21 |
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| merlin1991 | b0rk the database, corrupt the idea of votes | 13:22 |
| Papayawhip | it was just a joke -.- | 13:22 |
| merlin1991 | + write me an ati driver for my x300 so I have decent opengl support again :D | 13:22 |
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| merlin1991 | I could play quake based games 2 years ago, but now running the radeon driver, 5 fps :/ | 13:23 |
| lcuk | it seems people have forgotten how to optimise and make things fast | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | WAAAAH, rsync not found. apt-get fails due to missing space and unmet dependencies | 13:24 |
| frals | Scelt: PIL, aka python imaging library or something | 13:24 |
| lcuk | perhaps its all the layers of redirection and complexity | 13:24 |
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| Scelt | frals: why not imagemagick or something more efficient? PIL takes a hell lot of a time to finish up a little scaling process :( | 13:25 |
| merlin1991 | well in my case it's crappy support for my hardware, and I don't see any updates that will help me in the future :( | 13:25 |
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| kerio | PIL is cool | 13:27 |
| kerio | dammit we're losing | 13:27 |
| kerio | guys, start the scripting | 13:27 |
| lcuk | frals, does PIL include an internal C optimised scaling function | 13:27 |
| lcuk | or are you doing the scaling pixel by pixel in native python code/ | 13:28 |
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| lcuk | kerio, sell it better | 13:28 |
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| kerio | start the scripting please? | 13:28 |
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| merlin1991 | hehe :D | 13:28 |
| lcuk | Those pesky palm pre guys hid the voting from us, but now we know, its time to get a move on and vote :P | 13:28 |
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| kerio | "I have heavyly customised my phone to do just about what ever i want. They have patches for just about anything for this phone and if you wanted to run other os on it (which i dont know why you would) you can also do so on the palm pre. Right now i have mine overclocked ot 1ghz. Can the n900 do that? I hope pre takes it all!!!!!" | 13:30 |
| frals | Scelt: because at the time it was meant to be the easy solution, didnt expect people to actually use it... :D | 13:30 |
| merlin1991 | what? | 13:30 |
| frals | Scelt: should probably switch imagemagick, but i have almost no time to dev on fmms atm | 13:31 |
| Scelt | frals: hah, gotcha. but maybe it's time to make it better | 13:31 |
| frals | Scelt: patches welcome thou! ;-) | 13:31 |
| lcuk | Scelt, was just gonna say ^^ | 13:31 |
| kerio | write a PymageMagick | 13:31 |
| lcuk | frals, does fMMS allow transfer of patch files? :p | 13:31 |
| lcuk | N900 - including super MMS | 13:32 |
| Scelt | frals: I guess that. If it were perl, I would patch it but no time nor passion to learn python | 13:32 |
| frals | lcuk: you can mms a patch file yes | 13:32 |
| lcuk | :D | 13:32 |
| frals | lcuk: it might get lost in traffic depending on operator thou | 13:32 |
| kerio | and it costs | 13:32 |
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| lcuk | kerio, not the point here, people who want to use the service will | 13:33 |
| frals | Scelt: understandable, dropping an example in the fmms thread on tmo would be welcome thou | 13:33 |
| kerio | oh, sure | 13:33 |
| kerio | it doesn't stop MMSes from being evil | 13:33 |
| kerio | even more evil than SMSes, actually | 13:33 |
| Scelt | frals: example of code or idea? | 13:34 |
| lcuk | kerio, its not evil to make someone smile | 13:34 |
| kerio | you mean to make $phone_company's_CEO smile? | 13:34 |
| kerio | sure | 13:34 |
| Scelt | frals: where I can find the fmms source code? | 13:34 |
| lcuk | frals, based on what you said, can you send any binary data down the wire? | 13:35 |
| lcuk | and is there a size limit? | 13:35 |
| lcuk | (if so, what is it) | 13:35 |
| kerio | and where's my autovoting script :( | 13:36 |
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| Scelt | frals: damn. have moved permanently to Finland? | 13:36 |
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| lcuk | Scelt, no, he stayed where he was, just hacked the gps sats to show he had moved a few hundred miles east | 13:38 |
| Scelt | miles? | 13:38 |
| Scelt | no miles here | 13:38 |
| Scelt | lcuk: but maybe you can find the "permanently" word in my sentence. meaning not just a few months work trip but really living among the best of the people | 13:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems I have to try cp -ax instead of rsync | 13:40 |
| frals | Scelt: gitorious.org/fmms - example code is fine, even if its perl (but please keep it readable for nonperl ppl ;)) | 13:40 |
| frals | lcuk: yes, depending on operator, e.g. my swedish operator doesnt limit file size or format | 13:41 |
| jarkkom | you can't probably put binary data through real MMSC, they do have this content support check mechanism that will just redirect mms to email/web display if they think your phone can't handle it | 13:41 |
| lcuk | frals, awesomeness | 13:41 |
| frals | Scelt: yes ;) | 13:41 |
| jarkkom | arbitrary binary data that is | 13:41 |
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| * lcuk ponders new MMS media types :) | 13:41 | |
| Scelt | frals: kewl. where you living at? in the center of Helsinki? | 13:41 |
| kerio | lcuk: steganography! | 13:42 |
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| jarkkom | but of course with N900 you can hack the headers to be whatever you want and tell MMSC you support everything | 13:42 |
| kerio | i thought fmms already did that | 13:42 |
| lcuk | kerio, no, that would only be a few bytes embedded within a picture | 13:42 |
| kerio | lcuk: so send more pictures ;) | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | cp: invalid option -- x | 13:43 |
| lcuk | frals just said basically its an accessible data port | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | BusyBox v1.10.2 | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | FUCK busybox | 13:43 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: my sheevaplug uses a full ubuntu 9.04 by default, and it has 512mb of internal flash | 13:43 |
| lcuk | oi, as an op around here you should abide by the same manners as others DocScrutinizer | 13:43 |
| kerio | the n900 has... 65 times that? | 13:43 |
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| frals | Scelt: yeah, sw part of punaovouri | 13:44 |
| Scelt | :D | 13:44 |
| kerio | lcuk: i think there's an explicit exception in the swearing rule | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ack, sorry | 13:44 |
| kerio | "no swearing, except when directed towards busybox" | 13:44 |
| Scelt | frals: you may just call it rödberg as it's known amongst finns as rööperi | 13:44 |
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| Scelt | frals: did you move for a work or a woman? | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | Scelt: most common reasons to move to finland? | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, apt-get is screwed, busybox is screwed, and I'm out of ideas how to backup this rootfs | 13:46 |
| Scelt | Stskeeps: only reasons I can think of moving to another country | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | Scelt: lower tax helps sometimes | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:47 |
| Scelt | Stskeeps: well yeah, but I doubt of frals getting that much money from Nokia | 13:47 |
| jarkkom | nokia is bit better these days, they used to be really cheap though | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart nokia for not including a rescue system and multiboot by default | 13:48 |
| * infobot whips out a sword and chops nokia in half for not including a rescue system and multiboot by default | 13:48 | |
| Scelt | relying on the good reference | 13:48 |
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| jarkkom | Scelt, it's not like nokia is very prestigious place to work these days with all the troubles they've got so they better pay new hires well :) | 13:49 |
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| Scelt | yeah :) | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp since nobody wants to move to Tempere or HEL really | 13:50 |
| nidO | and they need a lot of them, as theres a mass evacuation underway | 13:50 |
| frals | Scelt: work, my woman is still in sthlm ;< | 13:51 |
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| Scelt | frals: why so? she should be with you. making you dinner, washing dishes etc. | 13:53 |
| kerio | making sammiches in the kitchen!</misogynist> | 13:53 |
| Scelt | sudo make me a sandwich | 13:54 |
| lcuk | why do you think he wrote fMMS - she sends him photos of sandwiches every night! | 13:54 |
| Scelt | frals: if I'm corrent, this example uses imagemagick command just like a terminal call? no mighty libraries. convert = subprocess.check_call(["convert", vars['source_image_fullpath'], "-scale", vars['sizes'][size]['width'] + 'x' + vars['sizes'][size]['height'] + '!', new_path]) | 13:54 |
| frals | Scelt: she still has 6months left in uni before she gets her degree | 13:55 |
| frals | Scelt: looks about right i think, if the binary is 'convert' | 13:55 |
| Scelt | yeah, it is | 13:55 |
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| Scelt | frals: and then she moves to rödberg with you? | 13:56 |
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| Papayawhip | oh my god http://www.deutschepost.de/dpag?tab=1&skin=hi&check=yes&lang=de_EN&xmlFile=link1022792_1022790 | 13:58 |
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| RST38h | Papaya: Not new | 14:04 |
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| Arkenoi | seems that n9 will have two keys more than n900, that's enough for a decent cyrillic keyboard | 14:05 |
| Scelt | Arkenoi: url | 14:05 |
| Scelt | n9 with meego? | 14:05 |
| Arkenoi | yep | 14:05 |
| Scelt | give me an url | 14:06 |
| Scelt | immediately | 14:06 |
| Myrtti | rumours :-< | 14:06 |
| Scelt | I'm keen to know | 14:06 |
| Scelt | Myrtti: ilonpilaaja | 14:06 |
| Arkenoi | there is a lot of photos floating around on the internets | 14:06 |
| Myrtti | Scelt: realisti | 14:06 |
| Scelt | couldn't say it in English :P | 14:06 |
| Scelt | Arkenoi: oh, so just rumours | 14:06 |
| Myrtti | Scelt: "spoilsport" | 14:06 |
| Arkenoi | yep | 14:06 |
| Scelt | Myrtti: okaydokay, next time then | 14:06 |
| Arkenoi | but they are quite consistent from multiple sources | 14:06 |
| Myrtti | I tend not to believe a thing before I see an official press release, but that's just me | 14:07 |
| Scelt | frals: I could do you a patch if I got a clue how to test it in action :P woudln't wanna give you a code I haven't tested at all even though it may work perfectly ;) | 14:07 |
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| lcuk | Scelt, so test test test it yourself | 14:08 |
| Scelt | "if I got a clue how to test it in action" | 14:08 |
| Scelt | damn man, you don't read the whole sentences today | 14:08 |
| frals | Scelt: just giving me the commandline should be enough as its trivial to convert to a python snippet for me | 14:09 |
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| frals | Scelt: how to test it would be to start fmms, tap new mms, attaching a huge image and then try to send and see what happens ;D | 14:09 |
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| Scelt | but first packaging and etc. | 14:09 |
| Scelt | frals: I was hoping you'd say so ;) | 14:09 |
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| johnny_ | hello\ | 14:11 |
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| johnny_ | hey guys i found a new bug wid dis device | 14:12 |
| johnny_ | a serious security bug | 14:12 |
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| Appiah | !! | 14:12 |
| pigeon | only one? | 14:12 |
| Appiah | another one | 14:13 |
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| johnny_ | actually a few | 14:13 |
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| Appiah | so you found a few serious security bugs | 14:14 |
| johnny_ | yep | 14:14 |
| johnny_ | certificate issues | 14:14 |
| Scelt | ju | 14:15 |
| Scelt | wrong channel | 14:15 |
| johnny_ | suggest then | 14:15 |
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| Scelt | frals: convert orig_image -resample newWdithxnewHeight\! new_image -> convert /tmp/1.jpg -resample 128x90! /tmp/2.jpg | 14:18 |
| Scelt | frals: of course you gotta have imagemagick installed | 14:18 |
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| Scelt | frals: there are many different options to do that resizing. resample, sample and scale are wrappers where iirc resample has the best quality and scale is the fastest | 14:20 |
| Scelt | frals: wrappers for -resize | 14:20 |
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| jarkkom | is there some kind of more "maemo-like" (like one in calendar app) date/time selector available in QT, the default one seems kind of clunky on actual device | 14:21 |
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| merlin1991 | uh oh, I think the readeon module is dying on me, random square areas turn into rubish until I force a refresh of the screen | 14:23 |
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| lolloo | pidgin messenger notify plugin is not working om N900 | 14:33 |
| lolloo | how do I know if some one PM me without the phone blinking or making sound? | 14:33 |
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| Appiah | vibrates? :) | 14:33 |
| lolloo | Pidgin doesnt notify | 14:33 |
| lolloo | Pidgin messenger | 14:34 |
| Appiah | what protocols do you use? | 14:34 |
| Appiah | have you searched for bugs? | 14:34 |
| lolloo | msn. IRC, ICQ | 14:34 |
| lolloo | yes, do I need to install python maybe? | 14:34 |
| lolloo | Pidgin messenger doesnt make not even notify sound or blink or vibrate | 14:35 |
| Appiah | PR1.2? | 14:35 |
| lolloo | yes | 14:35 |
| lolloo | is it beacuse I use LED notifier app? | 14:35 |
| lolloo | even Xchat notify plugin is not working | 14:36 |
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| lolloo | how do I know if I am using PR1.2? | 14:37 |
| lolloo | is it in the About | 14:37 |
| merlin1991 | settings about | 14:37 |
| merlin1991 | pr1.2 is something like 10.2010.19-1 | 14:38 |
| lolloo | it says version : 10.2010.19 | 14:38 |
| merlin1991 | should be pr1.2 | 14:38 |
| lolloo | strange | 14:38 |
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| lolloo | doesnt notify me also in xchat nor Pidgin | 14:39 |
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| lolloo | no sound or vibrate or blinking | 14:39 |
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| lolloo | should I flash my firmware again? | 14:40 |
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| lolloo | other notfies like miss call or e-mail is working | 14:41 |
| lolloo | but not for Pidgin | 14:41 |
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| lolloo | Pidgin messenger doesn't notify me | 14:41 |
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| lolloo | so any suggestion? | 15:09 |
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| sp3000 | dunno, maybe they didn't implement that? | 15:11 |
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| lolloo | it is implemntes | 15:16 |
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| maxja | hi | 15:18 |
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| maxja | j | 15:31 |
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| maxja | how can i make maemo xterm beep? | 15:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | guess you're outa luck | 15:50 |
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| flashn | maxja, xset | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | need hostmode testers | 16:01 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG51: !!! | 16:05 |
| * alterego raises hand | 16:05 | |
| alterego | I've got al lthe gear too! :D | 16:05 |
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| alterego | Crap, though not right now, is it okay if I ping you tomorrow morning? | 16:05 |
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| lovelyboy | Hi, I am trying to draw a sphere with Qt/OpenGL ES 2.0, which is using the shading language. I need to build the vertices, texture coordinates and normals arrays for a sphere. So I wonder if there is such an example code for creating a sphere with QT+OpenGL ES 2.0. | 16:09 |
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| jarkkom | lovelyboy, there's one in QT examples http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/4.5/examples/opengl/hellogl_es2 | 16:15 |
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| lovelyboy | jarkkom, i saw that one, but the problem is in that example, it creates a qt icon, which is good. But in my case, the vertices array for a sphere seems much more complex, | 16:17 |
| lovelyboy | and, i guess it needs some kind of math functions to generate such vertices array, as well as the texture coordinates and normals | 16:18 |
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| w00t_ | Jaffa: *some* developers make crap testers of their own (or in fact any) code, certainly :-P | 16:19 |
| maxja | how can osso-xterm beep in maemo | 16:19 |
| maxja | ? | 16:19 |
| maxja | echo -e "\a" doesn't work | 16:19 |
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| Jaffa | w00t_: I'm not sure I've met *any* developer who was _consistently_ good at user testing their code (rather than unit testing & TDDificating it) | 16:44 |
| lopz | hi :) | 16:44 |
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| w00t_ | Jaffa: I'm usually fairly anal about it, I don't think I tend to break stuff often | 16:45 |
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| rmrfchik | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/21/ce-oh-no-he-didnt-anssi-vanjoki-says-using-android-is-like-pe/ | 17:07 |
| rmrfchik | fuuuuuuu | 17:07 |
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| Papayawhip | http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html vote vote vote | 17:09 |
| Papayawhip | we can win :D | 17:09 |
| Termana | rmrfchik, the article points out that Nokia believes fragmenting user experience is a good idea. | 17:09 |
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| rmrfchik | voting for palm.. | 17:10 |
| rmrfchik | ;) | 17:10 |
| Termana | rmrfchik, naughty boy ;) | 17:10 |
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| rmrfchik | Palm Pre 53.07% | 17:10 |
| * Jaffa 's not used a Pre... | 17:11 | |
| Termana | Papayawhip, we're 327 votes behind. Is that even that amount of people still in the Maemo community? | 17:11 |
| Termana | :P | 17:12 |
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| Papayawhip | Termana: today at 9 o clock we was 500 votes behind | 17:13 |
| Papayawhip | we can raise :D | 17:13 |
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| GAN900 | Pre might be cooler with a reasonable screen resolution. | 17:15 |
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| Khertan_ | Hi everyone ! | 17:16 |
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| MohammadAG | Termana, 509 users here, stfu :P | 17:17 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, heh :P come on, do I need to make it clearer for you that I was pulling everyones leg? | 17:18 |
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| jhp | Hi everyone. I have a strange problem. I have a N900 and I have had it with 2 phones now that after some time the volume on the headset gets very low resulting in not being able to hear anyone anymore. Has anyone seen this before? | 17:26 |
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| ShadowJK | hm.. I obtained a USB umts modem | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | Yes, on my prototype. | 17:34 |
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| ShadowJK | it reports its IMEI is 000000000000000 | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | Haven't seen it on a retail unit. | 17:34 |
| ShadowJK | unsurprisingly doesn't work :D | 17:34 |
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| Jaffa | jhp: On the "headset" do you mean the normal speaker? | 17:35 |
| Jaffa | jhp: I had that with a prototype and sent it back. Had two others which have been fine, but there are other reports of it too | 17:35 |
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| Jaffa | jhp: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+call+volume+low | 17:36 |
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| an0therb0x | will there be any more firmware updates for the N900 ? | 17:43 |
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| GAN900 | Maybe one | 17:44 |
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| an0therb0x | i am somewhat surprised with how Nokia has handled the N900, supposedly their first "real" shot in the so called smartphone wars and now it seem it was a misfire .. with the announcement of 4 new s^3 devices | 17:46 |
| kerio | the n900 was never a participant in the smartphone wars | 17:47 |
| kerio | if anything, because it's not a smartphone | 17:47 |
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| an0therb0x | seems like semantics, what is the difference between a "smartphone" and "mobile computer" | 17:53 |
| toggles | fanboys | 17:54 |
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| aslani | from PeterÃMaemoMarketing: N900 was never meant as smartphone,but as mobile computer with phone feature, designed,for predominant landscape use, step 4 out of 5 in taking Maemo to mainstreamsmartphone market. | 17:56 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if android has overtaken nokia in the "smartphone wars" yet | 17:57 | |
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| jhp | Jaffa: Yes, on the normal speaker. The one you hold against your ear. | 17:58 |
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| jhp | I hardly hear anything, and it gets worse and worse every day. | 17:58 |
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| jhp | I can now only use it with the earpeaces. | 17:58 |
| GAN900 | a mobile computer is a laptop with a cellular modem that fits in your pocket. | 17:59 |
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| Khertan_ | rahahahahah !!! Need QT 4.7 to deploy my apps ! | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | isn't qt4.7 in extras-devel? | 18:17 |
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| Khertan_ | Stskeeps: yep but i mean in a pr release :) | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:18 |
| Khertan_ | i cannot push experimental libs to extras :) | 18:18 |
| * Stskeeps hopes that comes | 18:18 | |
| Khertan_ | Stskeeps: it ll :) | 18:18 |
| Khertan_ | it will ... | 18:18 |
| Khertan_ | just be patient | 18:18 |
| Khertan_ | currently i got many bugs report that are qt 4.6 bugs :) | 18:19 |
| Khertan_ | Stskeeps: maybe you can help me and explain me what is a UTF-8 hyphenations i didn't understand :) | 18:19 |
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| Khertan_ | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-1510?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:changehistory-tabpanel | 18:20 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_: no idea | 18:20 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 18:20 |
| Khertan_ | thx anyway | 18:20 |
| Khertan_ | i ask because google translate hyphenations(en) in hyphenations(fr) | 18:20 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 18:21 |
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| Khertan_ | ok i understand ... it s a word truncature :) | 18:22 |
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| Khertan_ | but in utf-8 the truncation symbol isn't the same as the minus symbol :) | 18:22 |
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| luke-jr | Khertan_: what insanity is this? :P | 18:23 |
| luke-jr | not even *Gentoo* has Qt 4.7 yet | 18:23 |
| luke-jr | LTS are bound to be on 4.5 | 18:24 |
| luke-jr | or 4.4 | 18:24 |
| Scelt | frals: did you get that commandline call? | 18:24 |
| kfx | slackware ships qt 4.6 | 18:27 |
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| fredrinN900 | good morning | 18:29 |
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| pog | hello, I'm trying to cusomize my N900. Is there a possibility to sort the application in another way (on the desktop, where all icons are)? Many Icons I dont need. Ohters I need I have to scroll first to the bottom. | 18:43 |
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| luke-jr | pog: yes | 18:44 |
| nidO | you can alter the desktop however you want, and you can re-order things in the application list | 18:44 |
| luke-jr | pog: did you watch the tutorial video | 18:44 |
| luke-jr | ? | 18:44 |
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| pog | i'll will watch it again, may be I havn't recogized that there was a description, when I looked it. | 18:45 |
| GAN900 | pog, tap'n'hold | 18:45 |
| GAN900 | Or Catorize is nice too. | 18:45 |
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| pog | thanks for the hints. | 18:46 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, ApMeFo is looking good! | 18:47 |
| lcuk | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/09/17/is-designing-ui-simple-with-qt/ | 18:47 |
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| lcuk | pog ^ | 18:47 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Pft, no offence to hrw but Catorise is nicer cos it's the shizzle. | 18:50 |
| hrw | Jaffa: no offence taken. Catorise is indeed nicer | 18:51 |
| hrw | ApMeFo allows to create folder and move around them but Catorise does work automatically | 18:51 |
| hrw | both have different users | 18:52 |
| Jaffa | hrw: And it's difficult to rewrite in Qt. And won't work with the flat, iOS-like paged thing of MeeGo | 18:52 |
| * Jaffa nods | 18:52 | |
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| Papayawhip | http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html 30 votes missing^^ | 18:53 |
| luke-jr | vote Palm Pre since N900 isn't a smartphone | 18:55 |
| Papayawhip | it's a smartphone-tablet | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | 15 votes lol | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | that was fast | 18:56 |
| luke-jr | 15 votes means this poll is meaningless | 18:56 |
| kfx | do they even sell the palm pre any more | 18:57 |
| Papayawhip | 10 votes :P | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | 9 | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 18:58 |
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| MohammadAG | haha, 14 | 19:00 |
| bef0rd | palm pre looked nice | 19:00 |
| bef0rd | never used it though | 19:00 |
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| * DocScrutinizer is going to *love* meego GUI, mmmmmm </sarcasm> | 19:02 | |
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| hrw | I played a bit with palm pre. did not liked it | 19:06 |
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| Termana | You will burn in hell if we lose the poll and you didn't vote | 19:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and catorise, while nice by concept, is relying on the fubar categories of repo rsp hildon app manager. I never find anything there in the category I think it might be, so end up with using 'all' in the end, each single time | 19:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ApMeFo is great (though objections regarding the config UI are hard to argue against) | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, does it matter? it's actually two forums and two communities voting | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | the palm pre doesn't beat the nexus | 19:11 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, I see your sense of humour is at an all time low tonight | 19:11 |
| Termana | :P | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | yes, after all I'm cracking networks to get the votes up | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | and.. there's the WEP key | 19:12 |
| MohammadAG | jk :P | 19:12 |
| RST38h | Ok, moo. | 19:12 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, hrw - of course, the biggest winner here is open source :) being able to select the best and even improve tooling knowledge by helping the other ;) | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | also using icon reordering in any of the menus tends to break ApMeFo menus, so after draging around icons you need to start up ApMeFo and save the config again | 19:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk <-- being sugary-positive again tonight | 19:13 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: You've been drinking far too much kool-aid recently. On any new medications? ;-) | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically ApMeFo needs integration into hildon desktop manager, or hildon app launcher | 19:14 |
| lcuk | RST38h, I would be *really* sugary sweet if you would help make an official open source Nokia emulator ;) | 19:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Why not ask hrw? | 19:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: He had one running, on Qemu | 19:14 |
| hrw | lcuk: Nokia provides qemu + maemo5 image in Qt SDK | 19:15 |
| lcuk | thats a good point, but from what I discovered the older nokias are more custom chipsets | 19:15 |
| lcuk | hrw, I mean emulating old school nokia devices | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | 1 vote LOL | 19:15 |
| RST38h | why do you need to emulate an older nokia though? | 19:15 |
| RST38h | ah, I see | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | N900 beats pre! | 19:15 |
| hrw | lcuk: define 'old school' | 19:15 |
| * MohammadAG likes watching cat & mouse shit :P | 19:15 | |
| lcuk | 3210 black&white snake era | 19:15 |
| hrw | haha | 19:15 |
| lcuk | when phones were phones! | 19:16 |
| * MohammadAG found his 3410 | 19:16 | |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Not yet, we need more margin! =) | 19:16 |
| lcuk | and you could punish the buttons without lag or complaints about fingernails or touch sensitivity etc | 19:16 |
| RST38h | you want me to simulate the physical shape too? =) | 19:16 |
| lcuk | nahh | 19:16 |
| lcuk | that can be done like you did the Ti emu | 19:17 |
| lcuk | just replacable faces, nokia has a back catalogue big enough to restock ovi with thousands of the things | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | HP emu >> Ti emu | 19:17 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, http://liqbase.net/liq.20100830_nokia3210.png | 19:21 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: why?=) | 19:21 |
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| lcuk | why not :) everyone has a favourite old phone and it would be kinda cool to have a fully working emulated one | 19:22 |
| * RST38h suggests lcuk buys himself a 20x2 backlit alphanumeric LCD | 19:22 | |
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| lcuk | not the intent RST38h | 19:22 |
| RST38h | Connect it to your PC and scroll email subjects there =) | 19:22 |
| lcuk | oldschool meego UX | 19:22 |
| RST38h | ah now I am getting it | 19:23 |
| RST38h | you want to use this thing for dialing | 19:23 |
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| RST38h | not very difficult, but it is not going to be nearly as nice as the real thing | 19:23 |
| lcuk | :) isn't it a shame we think new things are not going to work as well as old things. | 19:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | generally true :) | 19:24 |
| RST38h | new things are usually cheaper | 19:25 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, ouch. Too bad you weren't here when we put together the categories. | 19:52 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: Believe me, you wouldn't want me around | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | And I agree, I don't think we really hit the mark for the categories. | 19:55 |
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| inkbottle | Is there any workaround for "bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304"? | 20:00 |
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| lcuk | inkbottle, stop putting quotes round the URL and prefix it with http:// generally stops it being a problem | 20:03 |
| lcuk | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304 | 20:03 |
| povbot | Bug 10304: Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations | 20:03 |
| RST38h | btw is there a messaging plugin that shows emails with the rest of the messages? | 20:04 |
| lcuk | inkbottle, are you the reporter? | 20:05 |
| inkbottle | no | 20:05 |
| lcuk | do you experience this problem? | 20:05 |
| inkbottle | but I have this since I upgraded to PR-1.2 | 20:06 |
| inkbottle | yes every time | 20:06 |
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| inkbottle | for both sms and phone calls: can't know who is calling | 20:07 |
| lcuk | inkbottle, I don't see the actual numbers listed from anyone in the comments | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: bug #10304 | 20:08 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304 Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations | 20:08 |
| lcuk | what number is shown on the screen | 20:08 |
| lcuk | and what number is in the contact | 20:08 |
| lcuk | i am reading that DocScrutinizer | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: just suggesting a shorter syntax | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | bug 10304 | 20:09 |
| MohammadAG | naw, that used to work | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | bug 1111 | 20:10 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1111 [TRACKER] Maemo GTK+ 2.10 Regressions | 20:10 |
| MohammadAG | wtf | 20:10 |
| MohammadAG | bug 10304 | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | uniq | 20:10 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: i was verifying: just the same | 20:10 |
| MohammadAG | bug 1111 | 20:10 |
| MohammadAG | WTF | 20:10 |
| lcuk | inkbottle, just the same? please type them! | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: try a new one | 20:11 |
| lcuk | with spaces etc | 20:11 |
| MohammadAG | oh | 20:11 |
| MohammadAG | it ignores dupes | 20:11 |
| MohammadAG | right :P | 20:11 |
| MohammadAG | bug 10305 | 20:11 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10305 Application Manager in PR1.2 says not enough space even though there is. | 20:11 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: you mean i actually call someone (with typing the number) | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: yeah, povbot is a smart sucker | 20:12 |
| lcuk | inkbottle, i dont experience the problem | 20:12 |
| lcuk | so I am just wondering exactly what is shon | 20:12 |
| lcuk | shown | 20:13 |
| lcuk | and what the heck could have changed in it | 20:13 |
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| MohammadAG | still haven't figured out how to update the code in .cpp files from .ui files in Qt Creator | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: :nod: - tel nr matching (and normalizing) isn't exactly trivial. Though aiui Nokia chosen the most simple approach of matching max 7 digits right-aligned | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: qmake iirc | 20:15 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: i m doing some tests | 20:16 |
| lcuk | inkbottle, then please put your findings on the bug report as additional information | 20:17 |
| lcuk | i see many people generalising but not explicitly listing something that can be inserted and tested reproducably | 20:17 |
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| inkbottle | lcuk: I have no real results so far; however I have one information: I leave in France. Numbers are this sort: say 06 99 99 99 99 for a mobile phone; but when it's coming in it could be "+336 99 99 99 99" though it could be displayed by the phone "06 99..." | 20:26 |
| inkbottle | however it's more than seven digits on the right | 20:26 |
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| lcuk | inkbottle, so the phone numbers in contacts have spaces? | 20:28 |
| visz | is there audible bell implementation for xterm? | 20:28 |
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| inkbottle | no it's for you to read | 20:32 |
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| lcuk | inkbottle, I am not the software | 20:32 |
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| inkbottle | :-) | 20:33 |
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| inkbottle | lcuk: ok, I've got it :-) | 20:37 |
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| inkbottle | The incoming call arrives "+336999..." | 20:37 |
| inkbottle | If in your contacts you have an occurrence 06999... it is it that is matched | 20:38 |
| inkbottle | so not matched | 20:38 |
| RST38h | not matched | 20:39 |
| lcuk | does the phone number have dots in it? | 20:39 |
| inkbottle | by the way you can't manually insert a "+" in a contact's phone number | 20:39 |
| inkbottle | but you can by the way of cut and past | 20:39 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: no dots | 20:40 |
| inkbottle | but a "+" in front | 20:40 |
| lcuk | can you please just show me the actual numbers used completely without reformatting because the crus here is very likely what DocScrutinizer said | 20:40 |
| lcuk | crux | 20:40 |
| inkbottle | (dots were for the numbers on the right) | 20:41 |
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| ShadowJK | you can manually insert a +, but for some reason you should NOT press the blue fn key when you try to make a + | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | inkbottle: if it's for privacy, then replace *all* 5 by 3, and 4 by 7 | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: simple | 20:42 |
| lcuk | yes, the digits themselves are mostly unimportant but its the length and structure that is | 20:42 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: the input method for that widget has been switched to "dialpad" or something | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: exactly | 20:43 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: I think you can do it yourself with any text input widget | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka "implicit FN" | 20:43 |
| lcuk | its the same for ip address fields too | 20:43 |
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| inkbottle | lcuk: ok the number displayed for incoming calls is "+33699999999" ie: "plus sign", number 33, and still 9 digits begining with a 6 | 20:43 |
| inkbottle | is it ok? | 20:43 |
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| lcuk | :D | 20:43 |
| lcuk | yes | 20:43 |
| lcuk | and how is that number stored in your address book | 20:44 |
| inkbottle | and then it seems it works; but there must not be "0699999999" in the contact!! | 20:45 |
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| inkbottle | lcuk: when you give a phone number you give "0699999999" | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's odd as I thought Nokia is uing >=7 digits from right for matching | 20:45 |
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| inkbottle | ans the "+" is not accessible when you type numbers | 20:46 |
| inkbottle | and* | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | it IS | 20:46 |
| lcuk | slow down, and dont side track a moment | 20:46 |
| inkbottle | however I put the "+" by cut and past as I said | 20:47 |
| lcuk | so in your contacts, you have "Mum: 0699999999" | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | inkbottle: just press the 'S' key | 20:47 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: yes | 20:47 |
| lcuk | and if your mum calls in on "+33699999999" it works as expected | 20:47 |
| lcuk | and shows "Mum" | 20:47 |
| inkbottle | yes | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, so where's the problem then? | 20:48 |
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| inkbottle | lcuk: but my Mum composes 0699999999; but it arrives "+33699999999" (see?) | 20:49 |
| * RST38h is actually looking for a way to export/import the maemo5 address book | 20:49 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | visz: (audible bell implementation for xterm) afaik there is none | 20:50 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, theres many contact modification/lookup tools | 20:50 |
| lcuk | inkbottle, no | 20:50 |
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| lcuk | i dont see | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | inkbottle: where's the problem? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | inkbottle: it's quite natural when carrier decides to expand to a fully qualified number for signalling | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | oh luke-jr's going to love this | 20:52 |
| * ShadowJK is reading deadtree-magazine | 20:52 | |
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| ShadowJK | they have article on a nokia research project, with the headline "Smart radios arriving in a couple of years" | 20:52 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: It is sort of "modified": the two forms "+33699999999" and "0699999999" refers to the same; but "0699999999" is for human and "+33699999999" for carrier as DocScrutinizer would say :-) | 20:53 |
| ShadowJK | soft radio :) | 20:53 |
| ShadowJK | "cognitive radio" | 20:53 |
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| inkbottle | DocScrutinizer: only since "+33699999999" is arriving, it is not recognized by the phone as one of the contacts | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | inkbottle: again, where is the problem now? | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-09-22 19:38:44] <inkbottle> If in your contacts you have an occurrence 06999... it is it that is matched | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-09-22 19:38:57] <inkbottle> so not matched | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | [ | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-09-22 19:47:29] <lcuk> and shows "Mum" | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-09-22 19:47:39] <inkbottle> yes | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | .oO(???) | 20:55 |
| inkbottle | DocScrutinizer: You have to tell people to put "+33699999999" instead of the usual "0699999999"; but then it's okay yes | 20:57 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> so in your contacts, you have "Mum: 0699999999" | 20:58 |
| inkbottle | So at least it is a workaround | 20:58 |
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| lcuk | <lcuk> and if your mum calls in on "+33699999999" it works as expected | 20:58 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> and shows "Mum" | 20:58 |
| lcuk | <inkbottle> yes | 20:58 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: yes that's what every one does | 20:58 |
| lcuk | inkbottle, ^^ that suggests | 20:58 |
| satmd | the variant 069 is national, the variant +3369 is international | 20:58 |
| lcuk | that putting the 06999.. number is ok | 20:58 |
| satmd | and to add more fun, I see sip:0033 and sip:+33, too | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | satmd: we are aware of that | 20:59 |
| inkbottle | lcuk: as satmd said | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | the sip: part is completely borked though | 20:59 |
| * satmd nods | 20:59 | |
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| inkbottle | so we have to put a copy of this conversation in the bug report | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | inkbottle: satmd basically said nothing to support your abiguous point | 21:00 |
| satmd | :( | 21:00 |
| inkbottle | DocScrutinizer: I will not answer... | 21:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | inkbottle: once you state it doesn't work fpor contacts like 0699999, then - as me *and* lcuk quoted you above - you say it works | 21:01 |
| inkbottle | I'm off bye | 21:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pfft | 21:01 |
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| lcuk | there has to be some reason for it, ahh well | 21:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ok, confirmed, inbound +499112345678 doesn't match contact 09112345678 | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | (PR1.2) | 21:06 |
| nuovodna | hi, is it possible to run Symbian ^3 apps on maemo PR 1.2 ?? | 21:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I'd bet there's a config option to tweak matching, somewhere in gconf | 21:07 |
| ShadowJK | nuovodna, no, and not any other symbian apps either | 21:08 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, add that specific info including example numbers to the bug | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess inkscape will do | 21:10 |
| nuovodna | ShadowJK, thanks | 21:10 |
| satmd | DocScrutinizer: I didn't add anything to his point, but I stressed something QA failed at testing | 21:10 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: really? surely there's an old-Symbian emulator by now? | 21:11 |
| lcuk | it might ping someone who can help DocScrutinizer | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | I'd imagine there'd be greater chances to make a new symbian emulator | 21:11 |
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| ShadowJK | since the old one isn't open source | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | the new one is probably more closed than maemo despite being "open source" :) | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-May/005594.html | 21:12 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 21:47 |
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| TiagoTiago | i heard a dingding and there is a symbol in my status bar alternating between a mail envelope and an S with a orange sparkle, but i don't see any new msg anhywhere; any idea? | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: I'm more tempted to open a new ticket about why community can't fix #10304 | 21:49 |
| frals | [21:47:35] -bartol.freenode.net- Server Terminating. Received SIGTERM | 21:49 |
| frals | :< | 21:49 |
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| kfx | has anyone seen flasher-3.5 output "usb_bulk_write: Input/output error" with "Write failed after 0 bytes"? | 21:50 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, nvm, seems it was just a hiccup | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | kfx: reboot | 21:51 |
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| kfx | Stskeeps: I have, several times | 21:51 |
| TiagoTiago | gotta go do some other stuff, cya | 21:51 |
| kfx | including by removing the battery and waiting an hour | 21:51 |
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| mgedmin | kfx, I think I may have seen that when I accidentally used the wrong options, or passed the wrong filename | 21:52 |
| kfx | hmm | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kfx: in this case it needs rebooting desktop PC though | 21:52 |
| kfx | it's correctly recognizing the diablo image | 21:52 |
| kfx | DocScrutinizer51: I've tried this on two machines | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 21:53 |
| mgedmin | ah! yes, I was trying to write a n810's image onto a n900 or some other such mistake | 21:53 |
| mgedmin | the flasher correctly refused, but didn't provide a clear error message | 21:53 |
| kfx | both linux, though. I wonder if I'd have better luck with the osx flasher | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bad cable? USB port starting to break? | 21:53 |
| mgedmin | and I'm 95% sure the message I got was "write failed after 0 bytes" | 21:53 |
| kfx | Found device RX-44, hardware revision 0808 | 21:53 |
| kfx | followed by | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | kfx: what fiasco image do you use? | 21:54 |
| kfx | Version of 'sw-release': RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR0 | 21:54 |
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| kfx | Stskeeps: I originally tried to flash your meego kernel | 21:54 |
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| Stskeeps | -k ? | 21:54 |
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| kfx | but now I'm just trying to but the nokia diablo image on | 21:54 |
| kfx | Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/L6m5rExZ | 21:55 |
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| Stskeeps | N810, N800? | 21:56 |
| kfx | N810 | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | not sure sorry | 21:56 |
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| kfx | so it goes, I guess | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | kfx: how did you flash the meego kernel? | 21:57 |
| kfx | Stskeeps: I never did | 21:57 |
| kfx | oh you mean what command did I trie | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:57 |
| kfx | s/trie/try/; | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | why does flasher-3.5 identify itself as "flasher v2.5.2"? | 21:57 |
| mgedmin | nvm, mine does too | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nonsense | 21:58 |
| kfx | flasher-3.5 -k vmlinuz-n810-meego-27July -l -b | 21:58 |
| kfx | (I had renamed the file) | 21:58 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, go for it then | 21:59 |
| lcuk | but I would rather you put those specific bits of info into the original report | 21:59 |
| lcuk | since that makes most sense | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lcuk: well, while I'm on bugtracker site anyway, I may do this | 22:00 |
| tripzero | lcuk, seems like our meegotouch bug has gotten very little attention... | 22:01 |
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| tripzero | maybe it's in the wrong component | 22:01 |
| kfx | now I'm afraid to try with the n900 | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | kfx: that looks fully non-destructable | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | kfx: sure your battery just isnt low? | 22:04 |
| kfx | Stskeeps: I thought I was! | 22:04 |
| kfx | I'll leave it charging overnight when I leave work | 22:04 |
| kfx | come back in the morning and maybe the hardware fairies will have fixed everything | 22:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | kfx: you're aware of the problem that proper charging depends on a booting system, and esp N8x0 can do nasty things to your battery if this prerequisite isn't met? | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kfx: afaik N8x0 charging is *completely* sw-controlled by a linux userland process | 22:14 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: if discharging is nasty… | 22:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | discharging till dead probably is | 22:18 |
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| kfx | DocScrutinizer51: that's correct. | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | never stopping t charge like mad would be even more nasty, but chances to encounter this due to failing boot are small | 22:19 |
| kfx | the n810 as it sits has a working diablo install on it | 22:19 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr: sometimes i think you're just a troll... :) | 22:19 |
| luke-jr | … | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kfx: aah, k | 22:21 |
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| RST38h | slono: But, he actually is =) | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | XP | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr's a troll occasionally but he does cool work. | 22:22 |
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| Stskeeps | which makes him an acceptable troll | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:22 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: for example? :P | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: which, the trolling part or doing cool work? | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:23 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: NO U | 22:23 |
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| wmarone | I don't think he's a troll, since he actually believes what he spouts :) | 22:23 |
| luke-jr | wmarone: it's truth! | 22:23 |
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| RST38h | After fifteen years of work on Internet Explorer, browser architect Chris Wilson is leaving Microsoft for Google | 22:29 |
| slonopotamus | oh my | 22:29 |
| slonopotamus | i wouldn't let him in :) | 22:29 |
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| Arkenoi | well, ie6 was not bad at all | 22:30 |
| Arkenoi | actually it was the only one that could run on really outdated hardware among so-so "decent" browsers | 22:30 |
| GAN900 | Pff | 22:31 |
| slonopotamus | yay! let the battle begin | 22:31 |
| Shadikka | IE6 has so many sins that one virtue ain't gonna redeem it. | 22:31 |
| Shadikka | Signed, all the web developers in the world. | 22:31 |
| lcuk | tripzero, since I just had a bath, remind me | 22:31 |
| RST38h | LYNX. I wish more "web developers""developed" for it | 22:32 |
| RST38h | Btw, have they added JavaScript to LYNX already? | 22:33 |
| slonopotamus | i doubt | 22:33 |
| wmarone | Arkenoi: only because it was so unbelievably old and decrepit :) | 22:33 |
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| Arkenoi | wmarone, yes, but it was the only thing that could run on p5-75MHz and 32Mb RAM and still provide you reasonable browsing experience | 22:35 |
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| Arkenoi | opera was damn slow, ff out of the question completely | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | mozilla 4 - IIRC - should be fine | 22:35 |
| Arkenoi | nope | 22:36 |
| RST38h | Why do you need web browsers at all? GOPHER was quite sufficient. | 22:36 |
| Arkenoi | it was not, and it had no unicode | 22:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Admittedly it's been a while. | 22:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 22:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't care about unicode. | 22:36 |
| RST38h | Unicode can burn in hell, indeed | 22:36 |
| Arkenoi | i do, as i need cyrillic pages to be displayed properly | 22:36 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, well, it is lesser evil | 22:36 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: cp1251. | 22:37 |
| * RST38h hides now. | 22:37 | |
| jacekowski | childporn1251 | 22:37 |
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| MohammadAG | lol | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | that's kinda fucked up :P | 22:38 |
| kerio | unicode is fucking awesome, RST38h sucks | 22:38 |
| slonopotamus | opera? slow? it was the only usable browser in late 90s (early 90s didn't have internets here yet :) ) | 22:38 |
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| Otto_ | Hi, any1 know how to umount the 200mb ext3 partition? I think my partition needs fixing ... | 22:40 |
| kerio | Otto_: tough luck | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | can't recall a 200MBs ext3 partition | 22:40 |
| Otto_ | the aaa | 22:40 |
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| Otto_ | um | 22:40 |
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| Arkenoi | nope, it was slow. i bet you never tried it on 32Mb RAM. also, forget about linux, win98 worked better for it. | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | om | 22:40 |
| jacekowski | nom nom om | 22:40 |
| kerio | what's the aaa? | 22:40 |
| Otto_ | its /dev/mcc...p2 | 22:40 |
| Otto_ | actually, /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | mmm | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | that's 2G | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | or 30G | 22:41 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 22:41 |
| slonopotamus | jacekowski: yeah, but he said it needs fixing | 22:41 |
| Otto_ | p1 is the massmemory .... yeah that might be the 2G partition | 22:41 |
| slonopotamus | jacekowski: if it is 200M, it definitely needs it. | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | flasb it | 22:42 |
| kerio | heh | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | flash it | 22:42 |
| Otto_ | I've done it too many times already | 22:42 |
| Otto_ | :) | 22:42 |
| Otto_ | my /sys is dated as 1.Jan.1970 :D | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | eMMC | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | then it get's complicated | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | that's ok | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | if eMMC + FIASCO reflash don't fix it | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | it's a HW error | 22:42 |
| slonopotamus | Otto_: what a good day that was. | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | Otto_: that time is ok | 22:43 |
| kfx | http://pastebin.com/c931X9GR sigh | 22:43 |
| Otto_ | :)) | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | Otto_: and you can't do anything about it | 22:43 |
| kfx | time to buy another n810 I think | 22:43 |
| Otto_ | ok thx | 22:43 |
| Otto_ | yeah sounds a bit like HW error since im getting random resets with different firmwares | 22:43 |
| Otto_ | the /var/log is empty always so I don't know how to debugit ... but the resets usually happens when I'mn using apt-get or the application manager | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | what is a bootreason after that reset? | 22:44 |
| BCMM | Re: Otto's problem: is it ok to fsck a partition after remounting it with magic sysrq? | 22:44 |
| mgedmin | remounting read-only, you mean? | 22:44 |
| * wmarone wonders why MfE continues trying to check a deleted MfE account | 22:44 | |
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| Otto_ | I would liek to fsck.ext3 -p it but I donät know how to unmount it safely | 22:45 |
| BCMM | because while i don't think you can trigger it with teh KB, i notice that maemo does retain /proc/sysrq-trigger | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | ehhhh | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | don't | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | that date is on rootfs | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | not on 2G partition | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | and you can't fsck mounted fs | 22:45 |
| Otto_ | well actually the problem is not the date | 22:45 |
| Otto_ | it's fine | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | so what is the problem? | 22:45 |
| BCMM | jacekowski: even if they're mounted read-only? | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | BCMM: yep | 22:46 |
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| Otto_ | Otto_> yeah sounds a bit like HW error since im getting random resets with different firmwares | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | Otto_: what is a boot reason | 22:46 |
| Otto_ | how do I check that | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | cat /proc/bootreason | 22:46 |
| Otto_ | ah | 22:46 |
| jacekowski | after that random reset | 22:46 |
| BCMM | jacekowski: don't most distros check the root filesystem on bootup? | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | and check dsme file that stores stuff | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | BCMM: not anymore | 22:47 |
| BCMM | (and immediately reboot if they have to fix it) | 22:47 |
| BCMM | jacekowski: why's that? | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | journaling | 22:47 |
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| slonopotamus | :/ | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | kernel replays journal on mount | 22:47 |
| Otto_ | Nokia-N900:~# cat /proc/bootreason | 22:47 |
| Otto_ | -> sw_rst | 22:47 |
| Otto_ | thank gof | 22:48 |
| Otto_ | god | 22:48 |
| Otto_ | :) | 22:48 |
| slonopotamus | jacekowski: ext4 journals data too, not only metadata? | 22:48 |
| jacekowski | depends on configuration | 22:48 |
| jacekowski | you can setup ext3 to do full journaling | 22:48 |
| slonopotamus | never heard anyone did that | 22:49 |
| BCMM | jacekowski: also, my gentoo box checks every 28 days or 28 mounts, iirc | 22:49 |
| BCMM | i think ubuntu does the same | 22:49 |
| BCMM | journaling is why it doesn't end up fscking the partition every time it finds it wasn't unmounted cleanly | 22:49 |
| BCMM | most distro still check for consistancy every now and then | 22:49 |
| Otto_ | jacekowski : dsme file : lots of IO errors on dev mmcblk0, sector xxxxx ... also Read-error on swap-device | 22:49 |
| BCMM | ^distros | 22:49 |
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| Stskeeps | Otto_: did you overclock? | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:50 |
| Otto_ | I have fresh pr.12 | 22:50 |
| Otto_ | :P | 22:50 |
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| jacekowski | BCMM: only on ext3 | 22:50 |
| Otto_ | but I tried it sometime ago but it was just at @900mhz and only for a several minutes | 22:50 |
| BCMM | jacekowski: to which bit? | 22:51 |
| jacekowski | BCMM: that checking every 28 mounts | 22:51 |
| jacekowski | and full journaling on any FS is bad idea | 22:51 |
| jacekowski | because data has to be written twice | 22:51 |
| jacekowski | and journaling isn't to stop fscking partition | 22:52 |
| jacekowski | that's very hard to do | 22:52 |
| jacekowski | it's to stop fscking data | 22:52 |
| Otto_ | jacekowski do you think that lots of IO errors in mmcblk0 indicates that my flash is rubbish? | 22:54 |
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| jacekowski | or your cpu | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | Otto_: i'd pretty much send it back for RMA | 22:55 |
| jacekowski | flash it | 22:56 |
| Otto_ | this is a company phone, maybe I just toss it and request for a new one but I would need enoguh of evidence that it is really broken | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | Otto_: I/O error on emmc is usually bad | 22:56 |
| Otto_ | yeah | 22:57 |
| Otto_ | and this wouldnt be the first n900 which has a bad flash | 22:57 |
| Otto_ | I have flashed this phone so many times that I don't think it's a solution anymore | 22:57 |
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| kerio | Ye find yerself in yon N900. Ye see a FLASH. Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS. | 22:59 |
| Otto_ | you don't happen to know if there is (or if it is even poosible) programs that would scan the flash, for example, for reading errors | 23:00 |
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| GAN900 | Warranty? | 23:02 |
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| kerio | that's definetely a program that will fix your flash ;) | 23:03 |
| Otto_ | no these company phones does not come with such a nice program ;) | 23:04 |
| Otto_ | yeah I think there is no more to do | 23:04 |
| jacekowski | badblock could do it | 23:04 |
| Otto_ | thanks guys for the help | 23:04 |
| Otto_ | badlock? | 23:05 |
| Otto_ | block | 23:05 |
| Otto_ | :P | 23:05 |
| jacekowski | badblocks | 23:05 |
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| jacekowski | with S | 23:05 |
| mece | OMG I can't believe n900 beat the pre. Feels good to be in the most rabid community :D | 23:05 |
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| Otto_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50506 | 23:07 |
| Otto_ | there's the same error message mentioned in posts that mine has too | 23:07 |
| Otto_ | verdict: internal memory broken | 23:07 |
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| norayr | hey, people | 23:13 |
| norayr | I have added four keyboard layouts to the ukeyboard project yesterday. | 23:13 |
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| norayr | It can (and will) be used in maemo5 as well, right? | 23:13 |
| Otto_ | jacekowski: badblocks program needs partition to be unmounted so I'm not able to run it on 2G drive | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | badblocks won't help on a flash stotage anyway, aiui | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | physical blocks of a flash chip aren't what the driver thinks they are | 23:16 |
| norayr | and no smartctl to see the count of relocated sectors, as flash does not relocate them afaik | 23:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually the controller should relocate automatically and all the time | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | is there a way to force a connection to a BT device w/o a pairkey? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sectors though, not even logical blocks, but phyical blocks | 23:17 |
| MohammadAG | my old BT Microsoft mouse doesn't have a key, fremantle doesn't allow key-less pairs | 23:18 |
| RST38h | "Michael Jackson Themed MMO In the Works" | 23:18 |
| RST38h | "a massive social gaming experience" with "collaborative in-game activities," | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | fail :-P | 23:18 |
| RST38h | depends | 23:18 |
| Otto_ | DocScrutinizer what you say goes a little over my head but basically if the badblocks reports that it thinks that there are something gone wrong, could it be a indicaiton of a broken flash? | 23:19 |
| lcuk | RST38h, depending on which world it could be cool | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably yes | 23:19 |
| lcuk | having a Thriller area with zombies etc | 23:19 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: did I say "cool"? | 23:19 |
| lcuk | i did | 23:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I have been thinking more in terms of having a Neverland area... | 23:20 |
| Otto_ | DocScrutinizer fair enough. I'm just gatherin as much as evidence for a good "business reason" for a new phone :) | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail | 23:20 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i hadnt | 23:20 |
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| * lcuk is a half life veteran | 23:21 | |
| Otto_ | 0.5% in five minutes... this is gonna take the whole night... better look for a charger | 23:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Otto_: badblocks is definitely doing no good to your flash | 23:22 |
| luke-jr | lol | 23:22 |
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| Otto_ | it's reading the content of the block, saving it to temporary location and re-wrtiting the block with the same data? | 23:23 |
| Otto_ | it's in in-destructibe mode | 23:23 |
| luke-jr | Otto_: fail | 23:23 |
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| Otto_ | please be more accurate | 23:24 |
| Otto_ | :) | 23:24 |
| luke-jr | Otto_: badblocks won't do anything other than possibly push it over the edge if it's close | 23:24 |
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| Otto_ | I'm sorry maybe I'm a little retard or something but what do you mean by "push it over the edge"? | 23:25 |
| luke-jr | Otto_: I mean destroy it. | 23:25 |
| Otto_ | how come accessing and writing to flash memory would destroy it? | 23:26 |
| luke-jr | probably won't unless it's really on the edge, but in either case, it won't give you any useful info | 23:26 |
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| luke-jr | because writing to flash is wear and wear eventually destroys | 23:26 |
| Otto_ | eventually yes, but in one run? | 23:27 |
| wmarone | which device is this? | 23:27 |
| Otto_ | n900 | 23:27 |
| wmarone | well yes, which NAND device | 23:27 |
| luke-jr | Otto_: like I said, only if it's on the edge | 23:27 |
| mgedmin | there's only one NAND device on the n900; the other one is an eMMC | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Otto_: a physical block is some 256k on flash, badblocks does a r/w for each 4k logical block inside such a phy block | 23:27 |
| mgedmin | I don't think you can run badblocks on the NAND device | 23:28 |
| wmarone | mgedmin: they're both NAND, one's onenand the other is eMMC :P | 23:28 |
| luke-jr | mgedmin: don't tempt him | 23:28 |
| wmarone | anyway | 23:28 |
| Otto_ | *processing data* | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | so each block gets rewritten at least 64 times | 23:29 |
| Otto_ | yes! | 23:29 |
| Otto_ | so you think that flash won't last more than 64 rewrties? | 23:29 |
| Otto_ | writes | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: 128 since it's non-destructive writetest | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, I'd expect the device to start writing those 4k blocks into a new empty flash block, plus update the mapping table | 23:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and till - due the the controller hiding away phy block swapping for wear leveling - badblocks doesn't give you *any* useful result | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | mgedmin: there is no mapping table afaik | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/til/still | 23:30 |
| mgedmin | writing the whole 128k every time you modify 4k inside it would be insane | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ack | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | err luke-jr | 23:30 |
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| mgedmin | ok, I actually have no idea how the eMMC emulates a block device on top of NAND | 23:31 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: but you can experiment with it | 23:32 |
| mgedmin | sure, send me 10 n900's and I'll experiment | 23:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: start writing a file, block by block. Measure time to write each block. | 23:32 |
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| mgedmin | "how many 4k writes to make the eMMC unusable" | 23:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: if every fourth block takes much more time to write, there is an internal buffer | 23:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: no, that is now what I suggest testing | 23:33 |
| Otto_ | :)) | 23:33 |
| Otto_ | this is getting funny | 23:33 |
| RST38h | you do not want to wear out the eMMC, just find out how it caches block writes | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Otto_: actually the controller is supposed to kick out bad phy blocks in an opaque manner, so if any IO-errors are occurring it's a strong indication the NAND is defect. Though there also might be complete messup of logical structures, which *maybe* could be fixed by a reflash, so I suggest flashing eMMC image (VANILLA) | 23:33 |
| Otto_ | ah, okay | 23:34 |
| Otto_ | so the controller would handle the badblocks "automatically" ? | 23:34 |
| Otto_ | so every block badblocks program write are usable | 23:34 |
| Otto_ | so it's waste of time running it | 23:35 |
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| norayr | If controller will remap "bad" blocks | 23:35 |
| Otto_ | yeah | 23:35 |
| norayr | then you may do dd if=/dev/zero of=yourdevice | 23:35 |
| norayr | because writing to the bad sector will force controller to remap "sectors" | 23:35 |
| Otto_ | every nand flash bad blocks when they are shipped so they must be remapped | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | norayr: or that, even better than reflash | 23:35 |
| Otto_ | genious! | 23:36 |
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| norayr | :) | 23:36 |
| Otto_ | so what exactly dd does, writes all the data ? | 23:36 |
| Otto_ | sorry | 23:36 |
| norayr | disk dump | 23:36 |
| ioan | hi all. where are the app icons kept? | 23:36 |
| satmd | it will overwrite with 0 | 23:37 |
| norayr | which writes from input file to output file | 23:37 |
| Otto_ | so I SHOULD backup | 23:37 |
| Otto_ | first | 23:37 |
| Otto_ | :) | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 23:37 |
| satmd | yes. | 23:37 |
| norayr | if you give /dev/zero as an input file, it will read zeros | 23:37 |
| norayr | and write to the desired destination | 23:37 |
| Otto_ | but | 23:37 |
| norayr | unless it fill whole drive with zeros | 23:37 |
| tripzero | lcuk, the bug where meegotouch apps don't build in maemo | 23:37 |
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| ioan | any idea where are the app icons kept? | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Otto_: you'll want to umount the partition in question | 23:38 |
| Otto_ | yeah but thats the problem | 23:38 |
| Otto_ | how do I umount the 2G partitinoi | 23:38 |
| tripzero | ioan, /usr/share/applications/hildon/ | 23:38 |
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| tripzero | iirc | 23:38 |
| norayr | just umount /dev/mmc1 or something | 23:38 |
| Otto_ | device busy | 23:38 |
| ioan | tripzero: thanks | 23:38 |
| Otto_ | sine /home and /opt are located on the 2G drive | 23:38 |
| norayr | hm. on n810/diablo I do it easily. may be it is busy because there are open files from that partition? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | umount -f | 23:39 |
| Otto_ | and /home/user/MyDocs are the rest what are left after the rootfs and the storage for the programs, the 2G drive | 23:39 |
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| norayr | or because you cd-d there | 23:39 |
| Otto_ | iforcing umount won't help | 23:39 |
| Otto_ | hmm | 23:39 |
| norayr | close all the programs, and run terminal again, become root, and do umount | 23:39 |
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| norayr | you even may reboot the device | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's tricky, and maybe not even feasible | 23:40 |
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| Otto_ | I run lsof | and grepped all programs which were running from the 2G partition and xarged then to killall | 23:40 |
| norayr | in order to make sure nothing uses it | 23:40 |
| norayr | nice :) | 23:40 |
| Otto_ | tried to ujmount afterward | 23:40 |
| Otto_ | didn't work | 23:40 |
| norayr | aha | 23:40 |
| Otto_ | sorry for the typos | 23:40 |
| norayr | and what lsof says? | 23:40 |
| Otto_ | :) | 23:41 |
| Otto_ | there were couple of programs using the partition | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | a lot of processes will respawn when killed | 23:41 |
| norayr | even after the kill? | 23:41 |
| norayr | try to reboot it, srsly | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't help | 23:41 |
| Otto_ | i've rebooted many times | 23:41 |
| norayr | hmmm | 23:41 |
| norayr | ok | 23:41 |
| norayr | you have /home staff there? | 23:42 |
| Otto_ | sorry ? :) | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | camer-ui I guess is one of those respawning processes that have a filehandle to /home | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | a lot of others have handles to /opt | 23:42 |
| Otto_ | yeah | 23:42 |
| Otto_ | and hildon | 23:42 |
| Otto_ | etc | 23:42 |
| norayr | i wonder why some software uses it. if you keep /home staff on mmc, | 23:42 |
| norayr | then | 23:43 |
| norayr | what I would do | 23:43 |
| norayr | just a minute | 23:43 |
| Otto_ | :) | 23:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sshd maybe will survive a umount -f | 23:43 |
| norayr | you have a symlink pointong from your /home/MyDocs or something to mmc, right? | 23:43 |
| Otto_ | home/user/MyDocs | 23:43 |
| norayr | if you sshd as root, yes | 23:43 |
| Otto_ | yeeah | 23:43 |
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| norayr | Do you have another, external card as well? | 23:44 |
| Otto_ | I left it to work :( | 23:44 |
| norayr | I would copy MyDocs to the external card, and edit symlink, or remove, and make a new symlink pointing to the new destination | 23:44 |
| norayr | this way reboot will definitely work | 23:44 |
| norayr | hmmm | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | norayr: the problem isn't MyDocs, the problem is the 2GB /home partition, which happens to have /home/opt as well | 23:45 |
| Otto_ | the MyDocs | 23:45 |
| norayr | ok, then just copy all the info, and then replace the symlink MyDocs pointong to /media/mmcX/MyDocs with the folder MyDocs | 23:45 |
| Otto_ | yeah.. | 23:45 |
| norayr | Yes, I also keep /opt on an mmc | 23:46 |
| Otto_ | rootfs 227.9M 132.2M 91.5M 59% / | 23:46 |
| norayr | on mmc | 23:46 |
| Otto_ | /dev/mmcblk0p2 2.0G 276.5M 1.6G 14% /home | 23:46 |
| Otto_ | /home/opt 2.0G 276.5M 1.6G 14% /opt | 23:46 |
| norayr | :) | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | norayr: see: ---> | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 23:46 |
| infobot | somebody said optification was a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | norayr: it's absolutely nontrivial | 23:46 |
| norayr | ok, but I guess system will work fine without opt | 23:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | should, yes | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least in runlevel S | 23:47 |
| norayr | Then just replace /opt and MyDoc symlinks with a folders with the same name | 23:47 |
| norayr | names | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I fear that's exactly the point, maemo is fubar here | 23:47 |
| Otto_ | "duct tape workaround" | 23:47 |
| Otto_ | :DD | 23:47 |
| norayr | I did it many times. Transferred /home an /opt from external mmc to internal, formatted external, installed meego on it, then, dissatisfied with results, moved everything back to the external | 23:48 |
| norayr | I mean, it's not dangerous. | 23:49 |
| norayr | First, backup your data | 23:49 |
| Otto_ | instead of 2G rootfs user will not lose programs settings as they are stored in the different partition than the partition which is flashed... | 23:49 |
| norayr | I would do it with scp | 23:49 |
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| Otto_ | im on sftp already | 23:49 |
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| norayr | And then you have nothing to loose, umount it, dd zeros on it, move everything back | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Otto_: maybe just do the dd, and forget about ther completely fsckdup fs this will cause. Just remove battery after dd is done, then reflash eMMC | 23:50 |
| Otto_ | so move /home and /opt to external card, symlink then there and after boot the 2G partition should be unmountable | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and rootfs | 23:50 |
| norayr | genau! | 23:50 |
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| Otto_ | that's shoudl do it but I will lose every settings | 23:51 |
| Otto_ | but maybe thats fair enough if it fixes my n900 | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Otto_: do a backup using backup app | 23:52 |
| norayr | If you don't reflash, you don't loose settings | 23:52 |
| norayr | Though I would even reflash it | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | it does an amazingly good job on restoring settings | 23:52 |
| Otto_ | I have noticed that too | 23:52 |
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| norayr | Actually, even if you reflash | 23:52 |
| Otto_ | thanks to apt-get it also very convinient backup/restore | 23:52 |
| norayr | Settings backed up with home | 23:52 |
| norayr | yep | 23:52 |
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| Otto_ | when I flash rootfs will be overwritten, dd will over wrtitten the 2G drive and emmc will overwrite the rest | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd just copy ~user/* somewhere outside eMMC | 23:53 |
| Otto_ | only backup is in external storage | 23:53 |
| Otto_ | emmc = emmc flashing | 23:53 |
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| Otto_ | but | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Otto_: actually you should start 2 dd concurrently. One to the /home device and one to the MyDocs device | 23:54 |
| Otto_ | the emmc flash can be erased with ERASE fiasco file? | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe even do a swapoff and start a third dd to swap partition | 23:54 |
| Otto_ | how about repartioning the whole flash? | 23:55 |
| Otto_ | would it be simplier? | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | can be done during flashing | 23:55 |
| Otto_ | there are good documentation in the internet | 23:55 |
| norayr | you need to write to the "bad" sectors | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | first § | 23:56 |
| Otto_ | wait my atom is still loading | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply do of=mmcblk0 | 23:56 |
| Otto_ | :D | 23:56 |
| norayr | I have recovered my 500gb hdd with reiserfs that way recently | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...this way you'll 'flat-out' the whole eMMC at once | 23:57 |
| Otto_ | yes | 23:57 |
| Otto_ | thats the point of this discussion | 23:57 |
| norayr | exactly :) | 23:57 |
| Otto_ | but | 23:57 |
| Otto_ | they are still mounted | 23:57 |
| Otto_ | ah | 23:57 |
| norayr | And not backed up | 23:58 |
| Otto_ | backup, force dd, re-flash whole thng | 23:58 |
| Otto_ | that's should do it | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | dd won't care when writing to physical device | 23:58 |
| Otto_ | yeah | 23:58 |
| norayr | :) | 23:58 |
| Otto_ | but what if the hw problem is in the controller itself? :) | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | /dev/mmcblk0 doesn't know bout mounts | 23:58 |
| norayr | it's not that likely | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | nor bout partitions | 23:59 |
| Otto_ | I'm emailing my self to work... which was the dd line ? | 23:59 |
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