IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-09-19

dneary	Jaffa, Ping?	00:00
MNZ	dneary, I've done 'rm -rf /usr' instead of 'rm -rf usr' before	00:00
MNZ	^C is never fast enough	00:00
dneary	MNZ, That's no big deal, as long as you're not root at the time	00:01
MNZ	of course a bunch of shell scripting later I had everything back to normal	00:01
MNZ	was root	00:01
xqo	oh by the way, can you connect to the N900 with USB and use a shell?	00:01
nox-	yes	00:01
dneary	xqo, use a shell to do what?	00:01
xqo	anything	00:02
dneary	Like in demolition man?	00:02
dneary	But you'd need 3	00:02
xqo	I can plug my Neo Freerunner into my desktop computer and control it with a proper keyboard. can i do that with the n900?	00:02
pexi	nox-, what do you need for that?	00:02
nox-	yes if you install sshd	00:02
xqo	nice..	00:03
dneary	xqo, Ah, you mean can you get a shell on the tablet, from your desktop?	00:03
nox-	might want to use ssh keys tho...	00:03
volts	so my n800 has entered an endless reboot loop and reflashing with the latest diablo image didn't help... should i try --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset ?	00:03
pexi	nox-, i mean can you access the mounted part	00:03
volts	i'm looking at this very old page here: http://blog.worldofcoding.com/2007/02/playing-with-my-n800.html	00:04
xqo	yes, dneary	00:04
johnx	volts, couldn't hurt	00:04
johnx	are you sure the reflash worked though? also, when did it start rebooting?	00:04
dneary	xqo, Then yes	00:05
lcuk	volts, if you think thats old:	00:05
johnx	xqo, it's more convenient to just ssh in over wifi though	00:05
nox-	pexi, via scp? that goes via usb (or wifi) networking not via usb mass storage (which umounts first)	00:05
xqo	johnx, why?	00:05
lcuk	i found a source code offer for a function I like, given in reference to an article written in 1986!	00:05
volts	johnx: it started the reboot loop a few weeks ago, i'm not sure why	00:05
volts	i can still charge the n800 at least	00:05
lcuk	i am pondering contacting the university and seeing whether that offer stands	00:05
johnx	xqo, wifi means no wires :P	00:06
volts	so should i do "sudo flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset -f -R"?	00:06
pexi	nox-, yeah, did google n900 usb networking	00:06
lcuk	johnx, does code retain use after 26 years?	00:06
volts	or are "-f -R" not needed?	00:06
johnx	lcuk, you're using UNIX, aren't you?	00:06
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xqo	i dont have wifi here, i could get it, but i dont mind wires. do you get the cable you need with the phone?	00:06
johnx	volts, no need to include the image	00:06
johnx	it's just setting a flag	00:07
lcuk	johnx, no, its for a graphical bitmap rotation function	00:07
johnx	xqo, yeah, is the same one used for syncing ;)	00:07
lcuk	its advertisting uber optimising	00:07
lcuk	as they had to do	00:07
johnx	lcuk, why not? are bits different nowadays? are angles of rotation different?	00:07
lcuk	and would be perfect for the task I need	00:07
lcuk	johnx, my point	00:07
lcuk	so I think I will contact the uni and have a see	00:08
volts	johnx: ah thanks, then i should just do "sudo flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset"?	00:08
johnx	I mean, algorithmically we've come a long way since then, so changes are good it's not the most optimal	00:08
nox-	xqo, thats also what i thought doing at first, but then i just got an usb wifi dongle that does ap mode and plugged that into a freebsd box :)	00:08
johnx	volts, yeah. you might need to turn on rd mode though	00:08
lcuk	johnx, i believe the same or similar implementation exists in the middle of the doom engine	00:08
johnx	I don't remember if that happens implicitly or if it's separate	00:09
lcuk	i just like the purity of thinking this is a simple single function :)	00:09
volts	johnx: ah, how would i do that?	00:09
johnx	lcuk, well, that's 15+ years old too	00:09
lcuk	sure	00:09
johnx	volts, flasher --help	00:09
johnx	can't think of it right now	00:09
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: (you also might know who else) sorry?	00:10
lcuk	johnx, its the same logic as I was thinking to code it myself, its just the number of variables and complexity of the operation keeps blocking	00:10
xqo	do you use Maemo or Meego on the N900? because its compatible with Meego right?	00:10
volts	johnx: ah i see, i think it's probably --enable-rd-mode	00:10
volts	brb...	00:10
lcuk	i started and failed the other night and braindumped the equation in pseudocode	00:10
lcuk	then found the article which described it in same manner	00:10
crashanddie	does anybody know why sjgadsby pinged me on twitter about some audiopulse LGPL violation?	00:11
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johnx	xqo, there will be a meego port to N900. it's underway	00:13
luke-jr	xqo: MeeGo doesn't really exist yet	00:13
johnx	but maemo software won't magically work in meego	00:13
luke-jr	xqo: officially, it's not supported. but Nokia does pay people to work on it.	00:13
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xqo	then.. the n900 wont reeally be superupdated in the near future even though the n9 is coming?	00:14
kerio	xqo: there will be meego, if that's what you're asking	00:14
johnx	xqo, not officially, no	00:14
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MNZ	I'm pretty sure the N900 will be one of the first (if not THE first) device to run meego	00:15
johnx	also, given historical evidence, it's likely that a lot of developers will jump to the N9 and start making meego software as soon as it's available	00:15
kerio	MNZ: i thought it ran meego already	00:16
johnx	MNZ, well, technically it is the first I think	00:16
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johnx	but it will never run an official commercially supported version of meego, IIUC	00:16
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MNZ	well I don't really care. What I really care about right now is hwo to snoop on dbus messages	00:17
kerio	dbus-monitor?	00:17
DocScrutinizer	MNZ: check mdbus	00:17
DocScrutinizer	or use dbus-monitor	00:17
xqo	what is G2?	00:17
xqo	someone said the G2 is N900 and Desire combined	00:17
johnx	it's an HTC Desire Z, runs android	00:17
johnx	no relation to the N900 in terms of hardware or software	00:18
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johnx	closes hardware to the N900 is the Verizon Droid and the iPhone 3GS	00:18
kerio	the verizon droid?	00:18
johnx	motorola Milestone, I think?	00:18
johnx	kerio, it's a carrier re-branded phone,	00:19
xqo	http://www.zurb.com/article/438/-podcast-of-peter-skillmans-talk-on-innov by the way, if you're interested.	00:19
kerio	the motorola droid, isn't it	00:19
wmarone	droid is being used by verizon	00:19
kerio	the droid is a closed piece of crap	00:19
wmarone	they all are	00:19
wmarone	all motorola phones are	00:20
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johnx	kerio, but verizon calls it the droid, motorola calls it the milestone, IIRC	00:20
kerio	yeah but the droid actually prevents you from running custom kernels	00:20
wmarone	well	00:20
wmarone	the -droid- doesn't	00:20
johnx	so do most carrier branded Android handsets, IIRC	00:20
wmarone	the milestone does	00:20
kerio	at a hardware level	00:20
pexi	It's very easy to copy a mobile phone . it takes about 8 hours to take apart a phone and laser scan the whole thing. It will take another 2 to 3 weeks and mimic and build any phone out there. The bar for delivering reasonable hardware has really come down.	00:21
pexi	wut	00:21
johnx	pexi, yeah, a little questionable	00:21
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pexi	and what about the patents and torpedos	00:23
pexi	i donno	00:23
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jacekowski	kerio: it's not on hardware level as far as i know	00:23
jacekowski	kerio: it's on cpu rom firmware level	00:24
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kerio	jacekowski: it doesn't make it any less bad	00:24
wmarone	the kernel lock is enforced by ARM's TrustZone	00:24
wmarone	which checks the bootloader on startup	00:24
volts	oh wow, it works now	00:24
jacekowski	wmarone: nope	00:25
jacekowski	wmarone: trustzone has nothing to do with it	00:25
jacekowski	wmarone: it's m-shield	00:25
wmarone	m-shield?	00:25
Corsac	that'll be the case for harmattan and meego too, afawk	00:25
jacekowski	yep	00:25
volts	oddly it booted after disabling RD mode	00:25
volts	http://blog.worldofcoding.com/2007/02/playing-with-my-n800.html still works :)	00:25
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jacekowski	wmarone: it's the thing that verifies bootloader	00:26
volts	but it only got stuck on a white screen while in RD mode	00:26
jacekowski	wmarone: and anything else you want it to verify	00:26
jacekowski	wmarone: and it's using trustzone to make it "safe"	00:26
jacekowski	wmarone: so you can't tamper easily with m-shield	00:27
jacekowski	wmarone: because all it is is just bootloader hardcoded into rom that's doing everything	00:27
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: and if anybody is going to make me flash a m-shield enabled NOLO to my phone, that requires a signed kernel and possibly the signing key isn't public (as otherwise it's worthless anyway), believe me I'll find him wherever he hides in this universe, and feed him this crap	00:32
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: you already have a m-shield enabled NOLO	00:33
DocScrutinizer	but not one that requires a signature on kernel	00:33
jacekowski	well, nolo is m-shield enabled	00:35
jacekowski	but it's not configured to enforce anything except signed bootloader	00:35
jacekowski	which is quite pointless	00:35
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jacekowski	because you can just chainload another bootloader using nolo	00:35
jacekowski	it can even be nolo again	00:36
DocScrutinizer	I thought NOLO is the botloader	00:36
DocScrutinizer	bootloader even	00:36
jacekowski	yeah, but nolo can only load images in specific format	00:36
jacekowski	and has some limitations	00:36
DocScrutinizer	yeah we know it will load any correctly formated binary, no matter if a kernel or uBoot or whatever	00:37
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noobmonk3y	anyone know why /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input reads -40 as a temperature at times?	00:39
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: how's key management handled? Will TI sign Nokia's NOLO? or do they ship 3430 with Nokia's pubkey in ROM? or are they deploying one standard secret key to all OEMs?	00:40
noobmonk3y	he Mo	00:40
jacekowski	from limited info i was able to find	00:40
noobmonk3y	hey*	00:40
jacekowski	you need some special toolkit	00:40
jacekowski	to flash key into cpu	00:40
DocScrutinizer	oh, so Nokia themselves flash their oubkey to 3430 ROM	00:41
DocScrutinizer	pubkey*	00:41
jacekowski	yep	00:41
jacekowski	and that's probably why bootloader is using all that trustzone stuff	00:42
jacekowski	so you can't do anything with key from outside bootloader	00:42
DocScrutinizer	so you could disable (or not enable) m-shield on a fresh CPU?	00:42
jacekowski	i don't have official docs	00:42
jacekowski	i just have limited info i found on many websites	00:42
jacekowski	but i belive so	00:43
jacekowski	that's why i was thinking about wiping it using x-rays	00:43
DocScrutinizer	lemme rephrase: when I replace OMAP3430 SOC with a spare from digikey, will it still load NOLO?	00:43
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MohammadAG	<noobmonk3y> anyone know why /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input reads -40 as a temperature at times? <-- isn't this borked by design?	00:43
MohammadAG	afaik SpeedEvil knows about it	00:43
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: no	00:44
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: nolo uses HS stuff from cpu	00:44
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no	00:44
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: for example, see the qemu problem	00:44
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: and you can't get HS version unless you are nokia or any other big vendor	00:44
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: qemu can't run N900 NOLO	00:44
DocScrutinizer	:-/	00:45
jacekowski	nolo that qemu is running isn't that different from n900 nolo	00:45
DocScrutinizer	what's HS?	00:45
jacekowski	highsecurity	00:45
DocScrutinizer	FFS	00:45
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jaska	hitlersecurity	00:46
noobmonk3y	jacekowski, LED 4 Fail, ever get to the bottom of the LED selftest?	00:46
noobmonk3y	lol Mo	00:46
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DocScrutinizer	noobmonk3y: what's the problem with LED selftest? I can tell you some bits about LP5523	00:46
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noobmonk3y	cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest - > just getting a LED 4 FAIL, saw a log saying Jace got it, but cant find much more out about it	00:47
jacekowski	yeah, mine is failing as well	00:47
DocScrutinizer	ouch	00:47
jacekowski	i'm not bothered	00:47
noobmonk3y	jace -> mine was fine 10 mins ago, not now	00:47
noobmonk3y	so thinking it cant test 4 unless it's in a certain position, etc	00:48
noobmonk3y	ie, something needs to be happening	00:48
MohammadAG	muhahaha	00:48
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:~# cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest	00:48
MohammadAG	OK	00:48
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:~#	00:48
noobmonk3y	;)	00:48
noobmonk3y	but would be useful to know what 4 is, so i can try to explain led 4 fail	00:48
noobmonk3y	ffs! LED 1 FAIL now!!!	00:48
luke-jr	I want to get my N900 to share GPS via Bluetooth	00:48
noobmonk3y	i wonder if it is a speed thing? tests too quick :P lol	00:48
luke-jr	anyone to help? :P	00:48
* MohammadAG fast forwards 10 minutes		00:48
MohammadAG	YOU FAIL	00:48
MohammadAG	:P	00:48
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MohammadAG	would be lulz if it said that	00:49
noobmonk3y	sorry luke-jr no idea	00:49
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* noobmonk3y makes a special MohammadAG version of healthcheck.... just fails everything		00:49
MohammadAG	I was an app to send messages via BT	00:49
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luke-jr	I think the problem is getting this stupid Mac to recognize N900 as a GPS	00:49
noobmonk3y	you were? lol	00:49
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MohammadAG	want* LOL	00:49
DocScrutinizer	noobmonk3y: lp5523 kernel driver is doing the selftests, deciding if a particular LED is ok by A/D'ing the voltage over LED. It mustn't be too high or too low	00:50
noobmonk3y	the only google on "cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest" brings up yours and Jace's convo on irc logs, not the greatest documented thing on earth :P	00:50
noobmonk3y	hmmmmmm ... that makes sense	00:51
noobmonk3y	thanks Doc!	00:51
noobmonk3y	so, if the device is oc's on charge etc... that could feck it	00:51
jacekowski	it shouln't	00:51
noobmonk3y	oc'd*	00:51
jacekowski	shouldn't*	00:51
noobmonk3y	shouldn't but could?	00:51
DocScrutinizer	noobmonk3y: yep	00:51
noobmonk3y	makes sense!	00:51
noobmonk3y	ish	00:51
noobmonk3y	as much sense as the french language (*waits for abuse)	00:52
MNZ	French is le shit!	00:52
noobmonk3y	;)	00:52
DocScrutinizer	merde alors	00:52
jaska	viva le merde	00:52
jaska	(or something)	00:53
DocScrutinizer	vive la merde	00:53
jaska	ah	00:53
noobmonk3y	i'm gonna need a bible of information to go alongside the new healthcheck	00:53
noobmonk3y	merde is female?	00:53
DocScrutinizer	iirc	00:53
jacekowski	merde is shit in french	00:53
MNZ	female shit?	00:53
DocScrutinizer	my french lessons in school are some 35 years ago	00:53
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noobmonk3y	lol	00:54
jacekowski	i'm going to sleep	00:54
jacekowski	i've been to sheffield an back today	00:54
jacekowski	and had enough	00:54
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DocScrutinizer	I've been too shuffled	00:55
MNZ	I'm not that familiar with dbus, so someone help me out here: how would I find out which program is sending a certain signal/message/whatever-it-is-called	00:55
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DocScrutinizer	if it's not mentioned in the trace, then I'm rather lost	00:56
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DocScrutinizer	I guess somehow you can get the progID from the dbus sender numeric 'anonymous' ID	00:57
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MNZ	signal sender=:1.92 -> dest=(null destination) serial=63 path=/org/kernel/class/input/input15; interface=org.kernel.kevent; member=remove	00:57
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SpeedEvil	noobmonk3y: The temperature measury thing is deprecated hardware.	00:58
SpeedEvil	noobmonk3y: It may or may not work.	00:58
noobmonk3y	Ty SpeedEvil :) :)	00:58
MNZ	what the hell are these things? something is broadcasting the kernel's /sys/class/input stuff over dbus.... how do I find what?	00:58
noobmonk3y	Assuming there is no way to get it in any other form/piece of hardware?	00:58
SpeedEvil	What do you want?	00:58
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noobmonk3y	I'm just digging into all the hardware for Healthcheck, and pulling things i find out :)	00:59
noobmonk3y	takes a loooong time cat'ing everything on the n900 :P	00:59
SpeedEvil	ah	00:59
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MohammadAG	There's a kernel module afaik	00:59
MohammadAG	that shows the correct temp	01:00
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MohammadAG	(from the sensor next to the battery)	01:00
noobmonk3y	hehe, tis ok, thought that was the case, as OMAP deprecated it after that model :P - according to their website, must have just been flakey in that 1	01:00
MohammadAG	or from the battery itself, not sure	01:00
noobmonk3y	MohammadAG, the battery one is flakey too	01:00
MohammadAG	but it's in kernel-power, if you can get the source it can be compiled for omap1	01:00
MohammadAG	/sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input <-- this is the battery one :P	01:01
noobmonk3y	Mo, that is what i am reading	01:01
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MohammadAG	I know, but there's a kernel module which reports the correct temp	01:02
noobmonk3y	i think it just reads it better lol, anyway , too complicated for healthcheck	01:02
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osaka	hello, came to ask if anyone else is having an issue with n900 not alerting on incoming SMS all the time? no vibration or sound or on-screen message, but if you open the conversation it's there	01:03
osaka	i've noticed it only with one contact, too :/	01:03
noobmonk3y	osaka, specific texts? i ask, as it is possible to send a non-alert text	01:03
noobmonk3y	(Back in the day i had a tool to do that was quite funny) - but these days, companies can do it, even the vodafone text centre, (Text via outlook) allows you to send non-alert texts)	01:04
osaka	sometimes it does alert from the contact's sms's but not always, and it's a girl i doubt who knows how to send a non-alert text	01:04
noobmonk3y	osaka, any chance she is sending it from a pc or website?	01:04
osaka	nah, def her phone	01:04
noobmonk3y	just thinking a checkbox could be out of place?	01:04
noobmonk3y	hmmmmm	01:04
noobmonk3y	in that case, no idea :\|	01:04
noobmonk3y	sorry :(	01:04
osaka	blergh	01:05
noobmonk3y	Does sound like that is happenning though	01:05
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osaka	i even tried closing the conversation, locking the keys and screen	01:05
osaka	and put the phone on my lap	01:05
osaka	she answered 2 minutes later and i didnt notice til 1 hour after	01:05
noobmonk3y	sounds very odd... just tell her she's not special no more, and move on :P	01:05
osaka	feels bad, man	01:05
noobmonk3y	Night alls - off to bed :)	01:06
osaka	thanks anyway, night	01:06
noobmonk3y	not a prob	01:06
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ShadowJK	The sensor right next to the battery is accessed through twl4030 madc. I don't know any non-nokia software that does this.	01:09
ShadowJK	It probably accesses the battery fuel gauge chip's internal temperature sensor instead	01:09
ShadowJK	I thought omap34xx_temp/temp1_input was the SOC temperature...	01:10
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SpeedEvil	the /sys/class/power//temp is the battery monitor chip temp	01:10
ShadowJK	There's no temperature sensor inside the battery... Well, there's one in the mugen battery, but it's not supposed ot be there, so it creates all sorts of interesting issues for normal maemo system :)	01:10
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yep, me too	01:10
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DocScrutinizer	battery temp is supposed to be twl4030 ADCIN0	01:12
ShadowJK	and the mugen thermistor would be accessed through a different line on twl4030 madc from the thermistor that's in the battery bay	01:12
DocScrutinizer	BSI (mugen thermistor) is ADCIN4	01:13
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osaka	anyone else have any clue about the missing sms notifications?	01:14
DocScrutinizer	iirc all those ADCINn are multiplexed to a single 12bit A/D converter	01:15
nox-	osaka, also no blue light?	01:15
DocScrutinizer	there are like 8 in total	01:15
osaka	no, nothing	01:15
osaka	only hint about a new text is that it's there in the conversation	01:16
nox-	o_O	01:16
osaka	no call notify or whatever installed either	01:17
osaka	only app that has to do with conversations is the desktop inbox widget but that cant be it, no?	01:17
nox-	something to do with her phone that sends something `strange'?	01:17
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osaka	sometimes it alerts about her sms's though	01:18
osaka	i think	01:18
nox-	i never used that widget	01:20
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chadi	osaka: if you have the conversation with that contact open, you won't be alerted, AFAIK	01:24
osaka	i know	01:25
osaka	if it's topmost	01:25
osaka	and i've tried closing _everything_	01:25
osaka	and then locking the phone	01:25
osaka	and still it wont alert	01:25
chadi	oh, no idea then	01:25
nox-	almost sounds as if her phone is doing something `strange'...	01:26
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osaka	how can it be her phone	01:27
nox-	well i dont know the sms protocol but maybe there are things in there that could cause this	01:28
nox-	like some `dont alert' bit or whatever	01:28
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osaka	meh, can't find anything on the web that'd fix it	01:35
osaka	thanks anyway, night	01:35
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MNZ	o/ night folks	01:55
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mode14	so can i install maemo on my iphone ?	02:05
mode14	oops	02:06
mode14	wrong peeps	02:06
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	02:28
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TermanaDesire	Morning	02:41
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MohammadAG	https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-September/028014.html hmm?	03:16
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: Did you see poke about bug 2563, btw?	03:21
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2563 Please provide an attribution line for replying	03:21
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, yes, it's already in the SSU repo, added it about a week ago :P	03:23
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Ah, cool.	03:23
MohammadAG	but I lost the metapackage, and reprepro isn't working on the server	03:23
MohammadAG	fixed ssh on my router today	03:23
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MohammadAG	had a redirect which points any port 22 crap to my N900	03:23
Jaffa	Heh	03:23
MohammadAG	so if i ssh to the maemo autobuilder I end up on my N900	03:24
Jaffa	Oops	03:24
* Jaffa has 3.90.7-1 of modest, FWIW		03:24
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, that should be the newest one....	03:29
MohammadAG	Jaffa, send me an email with a word or two, I'll reply	03:29
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Hmm, attribution line doesn't seem to work. Still get '------- Original message ------'	03:29
Jaffa	MohammadAG: addr?	03:29
MohammadAG	got it?	03:29
MohammadAG	I /notice'd it	03:29
Jaffa	clever	03:30
MohammadAG	:P	03:30
Jaffa	Sent	03:30
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Jaffa	Was there ever an announcement about the repo, btw?	03:32
MohammadAG	no, as I said, GPG is failing on me	03:33
Jaffa	Need a hand (not now, shouldb e in bed)	03:33
Jaffa	?	03:33
MohammadAG	sure, can we check it out tomorrow?	03:34
MohammadAG	I'll ask lma if we have more problems	03:34
MohammadAG	Sent a reply	03:34
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, got the reply?	03:35
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, if you don't have the same reply try to	03:36
MohammadAG	rm /var/cache/apt/archives/modest_3.90.7-1_armel.deb	03:36
MohammadAG	apt-get --reinstall install modest	03:36
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timeless_pidgin	Anyone here know anyone working on pidgin?	03:37
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TermanaDesire	Do bird trainers qualify?	03:38
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: Ooh, after apt-get clean, the version in /var/cache/apt/archives is different size.	03:39
ALoGeNo	any way to run maemo in qemu? (not meego), or any way of emulate the whole maemo?	03:39
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Is bug 3700 patch included, btw?	03:39
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3700 Put signatures not on top in replies (thereby not forcing top-post)	03:40
luke-jr	ALoGeNo: no	03:40
ALoGeNo	in the wiki i dont see clean	03:40
timeless_pidgin	Only if they can train this bird to leave fewer tirds and use smaller prints	03:40
ALoGeNo	hey luke-jr ! kk ty	03:40
Jaffa	MohammadAG: YAY! It's wonderful and working	03:40
Jaffa	MohammadAG: I'd not've thought about the archives. Wonderful.	03:40
timeless_pidgin	Alogeno: maemo can run in system-qemu	03:40
Jaffa	MohammadAG: And bug 3700 is included :-)	03:40
timeless_pidgin	Jaffa: including bugs is awful. Include fixes! Not bugs!	03:41
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: s/bug/patch on bug/	03:41
MohammadAG	LOL	03:41
MohammadAG	Jaffa, I should've bumped version numbers when I updated the packages :)	03:42
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Yes; yes you should ;-p	03:42
* Jaffa reinstalls everything in the repo to make sure it's current		03:42
timeless_pidgin	So, no pidgin trainers? :-(	03:44
ALoGeNo	timeless_pidgin, how? you have some link or so please?	03:44
timeless_pidgin	Nope :-)	03:44
ALoGeNo	you mean maemo without X no?	03:44
ALoGeNo	something like meego?	03:45
timeless_pidgin	Roughly, qemu w/o system-qemu doesn't handle threads well. So graphical applications that need threads and useful debuging need system-qemu	03:45
ALoGeNo	with meego qemu image you cant don nothing.. keyb dont work mouse dont work.. not x..	03:46
timeless_pidgin	maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/read/d6eca3a26a6911df9735417902e5b02db02d/	03:46
ALoGeNo	oky doky timeless_pidgin :) you are so kind	03:46
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timeless_pidgin	www.lmgtfy.com/?q=system+qemu+maemo	03:47
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TermanaDesire	No bird trainers that can do that :p. Have you tried the official channel for pidgin, if they have one timeless_pidgin?	03:48
timeless_pidgin	You've spent your one free question	03:48
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, the new hildon-desktop needs to have /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini edited if you want the scrolling fix, I'll make it default to 0.99	03:48
timeless_pidgin	Nope, i suppose i could...	03:48
TermanaDesire	If they know someone working on pidgin*	03:49
* timeless_pidgin hops along		03:49
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ALoGeNo	wow timeless_pidgin , sometimes the correct key words in google does miracles.. tnx	03:50
timeless_pidgin	Alogeno : i tried giving them to you a couple of times...	03:52
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ALoGeNo	thank you very much timeless_pidgin :)	03:57
MohammadAG	bah	03:58
MohammadAG	Firefox had a problem and crashed. We'll try to restore your tabs and windows when it restarts.	03:58
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sandstorm\|mobile	hey, I cant see userlist on xchat what might be the problem?	04:11
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timeless_pidgin	Re firefox, load about:crashes	04:12
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timeless_pidgin	Note to self: shoot opera for being stupid	04:49
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SpeedEvil	I wish pidgin was a little less retarded.	04:58
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wmarone	but then it wouldn't be pidgin	05:00
SpeedEvil	My major objection is with either pidgin, or some unnamed contributor to the linux 2.4 kernel.	05:02
SpeedEvil	In 2.4 times, you could do sockdown() on a network descriptor in /proc/nnn/fd/	05:02
SpeedEvil	Even if it was not your own.	05:02
SpeedEvil	This let you tear down connections without waiting for the stack to timeout, f you knew rthe connection had gone away.	05:03
SpeedEvil	But with pidgin - you have to disable and then reenable the account to do that.	05:03
SpeedEvil	In practice, I kill and restart it.	05:03
SpeedEvil	I should setup a bouncer.	05:03
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timeless_pidgin	Heh	05:21
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timeless_pidgin	I finally was told how to hide the useless formating bar in pidgin	05:22
SpeedEvil	timeless: I find it useful to have the tab bar down the right-hand-side. Oh - and you can make channel name aliases for the tab bar.	05:22
SpeedEvil	I have tabs OSM HOS MD ...	05:23
SpeedEvil	right click on a chat in the buddy list, and set an alias	05:23
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timeless_pidgin	How do i get tabbar on right?	05:24
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SpeedEvil	buddy window - tools ->preferences->interface -> tabs	05:27
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timeless_pidgin	How do i get the buddy window?	05:30
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SpeedEvil	what version is thsi?	05:32
timeless_pidgin	Oops browser crashed	05:32
timeless_pidgin	Dunno, version me?	05:32
timeless_pidgin	I had a buddy window. I lost it.	05:33
timeless_pidgin	I can't find it anymore	05:33
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timeless_pidgin	ii pidgin 2.7.3-0nix2	05:34
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SpeedEvil	ah - I'm on 2.5.9	05:34
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timeless_pidgin	Err	05:37
timeless_pidgin	How do i not see the tabbar when i don't need it?	05:37
timeless_pidgin	And how do i open the buddy window w/o quiting?	05:37
SpeedEvil	Unsure.	05:38
SpeedEvil	I always have it visible	05:38
SpeedEvil	Is this on maemo?	05:38
timeless_pidgin	Yup	05:38
SpeedEvil	ah - right - it'll have been wierdised.	05:38
timeless_pidgin	Does anything else exist?	05:38
SpeedEvil	I can't run maeo on my laptop.	05:39
timeless_pidgin	Why not?	05:39
SpeedEvil	native	05:39
timeless_pidgin	mer exists in iso form	05:39
lcuk	SpeedEvil, all hildon is open	05:39
SpeedEvil	That is not maemo.	05:39
lcuk	there might be a few apps missing	05:39
lcuk	but they can be filled up from extras	05:40
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SpeedEvil	I'm sorry - if vital apps such as 'Blocks' cannot be there, I'm not using it.	05:40
SpeedEvil	:)	05:40
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timeless_pidgin	Define "cannot"	05:42
timeless_pidgin	I had blocks and friends on my x86 mer	05:42
timeless_pidgin	... I used a nokia internal repo...	05:42
timeless_pidgin	;-)	05:42
SpeedEvil	torrent?	05:43
SpeedEvil	:)	05:43
timeless_pidgin	Fwiw, iiuc, blocks was a third party app that nokia kinda imported	05:43
SpeedEvil	yeah.	05:43
timeless_pidgin	No :-b	05:44
SpeedEvil	Along with the bugs.	05:44
timeless_pidgin	Ayup	05:44
timeless_pidgin	That part sucked	05:44
timeless_pidgin	game over. You loose (slut)	05:44
SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 I was thinking of.	05:44
povbot	Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug	05:44
timeless_pidgin	Nice	05:47
Robot101	timeless_pidgin: not that 3rd - I thought it was nokia bangalore?	05:48
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timeless_pidgin	Hrm, i thought it was brazil	05:53
timeless_pidgin	Indt	05:53
timeless_pidgin	I could be wrong	05:53
timeless_pidgin	I didn't think nokia bangalore was involved in maemo until more recently...	05:54
timeless_pidgin	If at all...	05:54
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ALoGeNo	hey guys i need the SDK to run madde?	08:04
ALoGeNo	toolchain or so?	08:04
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sobczyk	ALoGeNo: no	08:44
sobczyk	just the qt creator	08:46
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jacktheripper	since there's no more save/load state in psx4all (WHY?), is there at least some option to pause rendering ?	09:50
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jaem	How do I kill matchbox on Diablo and keep it dead? It keeps respawning?	10:40
jaem	That last sentence wasn't a question. :S	10:40
johnx	replace it with something a script named matchbox that starts and just sleeps forever?	10:41
johnx	s/something//	10:41
infobot	johnx meant: replace it with a script named matchbox that starts and just sleeps forever?	10:41
jaem	johnx: Sure, but I'm wondering what makes it respawn in the first place. matchbox-remote -exit does not work.	10:42
MNZ	jaem, probably init scripts. not sure about Diablo, but if it uses upstart then probably 'stop matchbox'	10:42
johnx	probably watched by the watchdog?	10:42
jaem	MNZ: It might be init scripts, but it doesn't use upstart, IIRC	10:42
jaem	johnx: Which watchdog?	10:42
TermanaDesire	I don't think Diablo used upstart	10:42
johnx	jaem, that's left as an exercise to the reader (aka, I don't know)	10:43
jaem	johnx: Heh... fair enough	10:43
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DocScrutinizer	hmm	12:05
n900_user	hello good evening everyone. I'm not sure what is wrong with my n900, but I don't seem to have an /apps/osso/hildon-home folder..why could that be? I'm on or should be on PR 1.2	12:05
johnx	I don't have that either. are you sure that's the exact path?	12:06
DocScrutinizer	grep -r matchbox /etc -- should help but he's gone it seems	12:06
n900_user	is that something I install or is that something that should be already on my n900 because of PR 1.2? Is it possible that I did not completely reset my n900 back to factory before I upgraded to 1.2?	12:06
johnx	why do you think you need that directory?	12:06
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n900_user	johnx: if you look at this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62091&page=8 they are talking about running those commands to resize the icons	12:07
n900_user	i for some reason don't have that command...and i'm wondering what the problem could be.	12:07
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timoph	those gconf things are not paths in filesystem	12:10
johnx	n900_user, if you don't know what a command does, you should read up on it	12:10
johnx	gconftool is well documented	12:10
n900_user	johnx: i know what the command does, but the problem is that I don't have those paths on my n900. I just don't know if I did something wrong when I reset it months ago when PR 1.2 came out or not. I'd hate to having to wipe again to factory default because I've already got so much on my phone right now.	12:11
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n900_user	timoph: so my phone is completely normal if I don't have those things? because I do not see a single folder starting with /apps/	12:12
jpinx	I can't find a config file for sshd in the n900's maemo - does it not exist and can I create one and if so, where and what to call it?	12:12
timoph	n900_user: yes	12:12
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johnx	n900_user, you don't know what the command does if you think those are paths on your filesystem	12:13
johnx	jpinx, it's in /etc/ssh and it's called sshd_config	12:14
jpinx	johnx: I was able to ls that, but when I went to cat it it says no such file	12:14
johnx	are you root?	12:15
DocScrutinizer	jaem: (away): $AF_INIT_DIR/matchbox.sh -> #!/bin/sh # Matchbox window manager startup/shutdown script	12:15
jpinx	yep ;)	12:15
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johnx	jpinx, run cat /etc/ssh/sshd_config	12:16
jpinx	hang on - there's 2 - one is ssh_config and he other is shd_config	12:16
jpinx	so which one do I play with to get X-forwarding to work?	12:17
alterego	sshd like he said	12:17
johnx	jpinx, you should play with whatever file you're told to edit in the howto you're following ;)	12:18
jpinx	johnx: :)	12:18
jpinx	johnx: I actually want to forward X froma chroot - no howto's for that ;)	12:19
johnx	jpinx, are you running a separate x server in the chroot?	12:19
jpinx	johnx: yes	12:19
johnx	and things run in the chroot connect to it normally?	12:20
jpinx	johnx: I've only been doing cl stuff up till now	12:20
jpinx	this instance of irssi is running int the chroot on the n900 and contrrolled from my eeepc ;)	12:21
jpinx	ssh over usb, with the eeepc wifi doing the gateway	12:21
johnx	you know irssi is available in extras or extras-devel/testing, right?	12:21
jpinx	johnx: yea - I installed it in maemo too, but i am spending all my time in the chroot now and wanted to get maybe links2 -g to work over ssh	12:22
jpinx	I started with the standard chroot supplied by maemo and then went on to modify it a bit	12:23
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psycho_oreos	n900_user, those directories that you can't see are virtual hives, they don't exist on the real filesystem	12:24
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n900_user	psycho_oreos: thanks for checking up on that. i just wonder why all those people then say that they can successfully use those commands in order to resize their icons/shortcuts	12:25
johnx	jpinx, yup. what you're tring to do isn't actually that simple. I would draw out a network diagram for yourself including maemo and the debian chroot as separate machines, then try and follow a howto and substitute in the right things for your setup	12:25
psycho_oreos	think of it as like registry entries under windows	12:25
DocScrutinizer	jaem: $LAUNCHWRAPPER_NICE_TRYRESTART start "$SVC" $PROG -- does what it says: tryrestart, it uses DSME afaik	12:25
jpinx	johnx: you're right - I have paper sketches of it all over the table here - to try and make sure I don't miss a "link"'	12:26
psycho_oreos	n900_user, its a good idea to read the thread from the beginning, there's a script which would automate getting the stuff that is maybe required for it to work including matan's modified hildon-home	12:26
johnx	(or if you read the manpage for gconftool you'd know what it actually does ... )	12:27
johnx	n900_user, ^	12:27
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psycho_oreos	I don't think the manpage would be easily available on the n900 itself :) there's a script or something that goes around truncating manpages to save space	12:28
johnx	it is available on google though	12:28
psycho_oreos	or scratchbox env :)	12:28
johnx	if you type: man gconftool into google, the first hit is the manpage for gconftool	12:29
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DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: apt-cache search mandb	12:31
DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: my manpages are very easily available n N900	12:31
johnx	wow. will that do the right thing and un-truncate existing pages, then optify the result?	12:32
* MohammadAG51 just woke up		12:32
MohammadAG51	existing pages are poof, gone	12:32
MohammadAG51	although i started a package which does that, i realized it might cause failed installations	12:33
MohammadAG51	plus it's too cumbersome, you have to reinstall all packages on the system	12:33
johnx	well, you could make a 'man' command that reinstallls the package that owns the manpage, then displays it :D	12:34
MohammadAG51	right now it has man-db-pages	12:35
MohammadAG51	those contain pages for most commands you'll want to man anyways	12:35
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johnx	but not the pages for the busybox versions, right?	12:37
MohammadAG51	probably not	12:37
MohammadAG51	i.e tar is gtar	12:37
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* MohammadAG51 doesn't use busybox		12:37
johnx	ah, it hasn't quite pissed me off enough to stop using it yet	12:38
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johnx	mmm. I <3 deals.woot.com. ninja grappling hook: $17.36	12:40
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Jaffa	Morning, all	12:53
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DocScrutinizer	grr	12:53
Jaffa	MohammadAG51: Need a hand with GPG?	12:53
DocScrutinizer	moo mo	12:53
DocScrutinizer	screw messybox, manpages fr useless cruft are useless anyway	12:53
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johnx	DocScrutinizer, thank you for you for your valuable opinion. however, if you want to write any script that you plan to distribute you do actually need to know busybox	12:55
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stef_204	hi, new to n900. i just added http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel for extra devel mirror but getting error 404. Is there another url for it?	12:57
DocScrutinizer	johnx: that's kinda sadly correct	12:58
johnx	stef_204, that part seems right	12:59
johnx	it might be the 'components' field that you mistyped though	12:59
johnx	or the other one ...	12:59
johnx	let me see what mine says, one sec	12:59
stef_204	ok, i used this--on bottom of page http://nokia-n900.com/office-viewer-for-nokia-n900/	12:59
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stef_204	http://www.mobiledownloadblog.com/2010/01/download-freoffice-maemo-application.htm	13:00
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stef_204	I meant that one ^^	13:00
DocScrutinizer	johnx: but actually script writers of initscripts should even better have known about the differences between messybox and a decent shell plus coreutils, to avoid breaking init when messybox is replaced by a more sane setup	13:00
stef_204	Distribution: freemantle	13:00
stef_204	Components: free	13:00
johnx	DocScrutinizer, which is often why I need to know busybox, so I can avoid breaking maemo or on "better" shells	13:01
johnx	stef_204, misspelled fremantle ;)	13:01
stef_204	Distrib perhaps is wrong? I see there is also freemantle 1.2 and 1.3	13:01
stef_204	johnx: yikes ;)	13:01
johnx	:)	13:01
johnx	also, am I like the last one who noticed a 1.3 in the extras repo? does that mean anything or ... ?	13:02
DocScrutinizer	johnx: I'm afraid the really nasty busyboxisms aren't even mentioned in busybox manpages - if there even is such a thing	13:02
stef_204	lemme correct that. what's teh deal with using fremantle instead of fremantle-1.2 or fremantle-1.3 ?	13:02
johnx	DocScrutinizer, there is. on their website. haven't found a discrepancy yet, but obviously YMMV	13:02
DocScrutinizer	johnx: nope, for now that 1.3 is just a link to prepare for a bright future :-)	13:03
johnx	stef_204, if I had to guess, I'd bet that fremantle just pointed to whatever the 'current' release was	13:03
stef_204	johnx: ok	13:03
johnx	fremantle-1.2 should be safe too I suppose	13:03
stef_204	ok thanks.	13:03
stef_204	anyone here running openoffice applications on n900?	13:04
johnx	speaking for myself, I'm not a masochist	13:04
stef_204	johnx: me neither, which is whay I am trying to get some feedback	13:05
stef_204	;)	13:05
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jpinx	even I don't do that :)	13:05
johnx	my experience is that it's pretty glacial on even modern notebook/desktop hardware	13:06
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stef_204	johnx: ?? I run openoffice on my laptop (linux mandriva) and no problems--perhaps I didn't understand your last comment	13:07
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johnx	dunno. it just seems pretty heavy and slow even on a machine with 1GB of RAM	13:07
jpinx	stef_204: are you in a chroot?	13:08
jpinx	OOo is for big desktops ;)	13:08
stef_204	jpinx: no, haven't gotten there yet	13:08
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jpinx	running stuff like OOo and gimp onthe n900 is just - well, I won't	13:09
stef_204	I have 2 GB's RAM on laptop and owrks fine. Compatibility with formatting with MS Office is not that great though, e.g. PowerPoint presentation formatting gets a bit screwed up and that's annoying	13:09
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stef_204	but how can I complain when it's free.....? ;)	13:09
jacekowski	yeah, quality/price is a lot better than everything else	13:10
stef_204	jacekowski: yep	13:10
jacekowski	but quality itself is just poor	13:10
jacekowski	but well, you get what you've paid for	13:10
stef_204	jacekowski: that's a bit harsh, IMHO	13:10
jacekowski	well, i remember staroffice	13:11
stef_204	what do oyu guys recomment for MS Office documents (that is free) for the n900? FreOffice?	13:11
jacekowski	from sun	13:11
jacekowski	and then opensource version of it openoffice	13:11
jacekowski	and i don't think it was improved a lot since when it was opensourced by sun	13:11
johnx	jacekowski, well, we can be sure the period at sun will look like a high point compared to oracle ...	13:12
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stef_204	I keep having to reboot into Windows from Linux when I have to do some serious editing on a Client PowerPoint where a few of us are working on same presentation	13:12
psycho_oreos	you could run windows in virtual machines env	13:13
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jacekowski	what's the point	13:13
jacekowski	if you can run native windows faster	13:13
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stef_204	psycho_oreos: I'd love to but I am not sure I have the space on my HDD. would mean I wd have to can the actual Windows install and use the freed-up space for the VM	13:14
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stef_204	I tried to VMware Windows converter once and didn't work out that great--super slow but must have been becasue I was running VM on a network drive	13:15
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psycho_oreos	the point is that you won't need to reboot/dual boot if you have windows under virtualised environment, and the performance is quite minimal unless you're doing multitasking under both OS :p	13:15
DocScrutinizer	moo jacekowski	13:15
jacekowski	boo	13:15
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: that charging	13:15
psycho_oreos	stef_204, hard drives aren't expensive these days lol	13:16
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: it's using very safe values	13:16
stef_204	psycho_oreos: I know and I agree, but canning my actual windows install is a big step since I use high end applications that only run on windows so not sure I have the mettle to mess with that and be stuck....we'll see	13:17
DocScrutinizer	eh? which one now? bme? hw default? jrbme scripts?	13:17
jacekowski	nolo	13:17
DocScrutinizer	nolo!!	13:17
DocScrutinizer	:-P	13:17
jacekowski	so it looks like nolo was supposed to be able to charge dead phone to level when it's bootable	13:17
DocScrutinizer	yeah, engineers are conservative, or dead :-P	13:17
jacekowski	i mean, fully bootable	13:17
jacekowski	but something went wrong	13:18
DocScrutinizer	ohh?	13:18
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psycho_oreos	stef_204, I didn't say you have to can windows completely you can convert that windows install into virtualised environment to save you from installing windows and configurating it all again	13:18
DocScrutinizer	did tests yesterday, everything went fine	13:18
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DocScrutinizer	hw recovery charge til 3.0, nolo charge til 3.3, then normal act_dead	13:19
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jacekowski	is 3.3V enough to boot a phone?	13:19
DocScrutinizer	did this like 4 times in a row (discharging cell was the most pain)	13:19
stef_204	psycho_oreos: that's what I had done before except wasn't a good experience because, since I had no space available on my HDD for the VM, I stuck it into a network drive and tried to run the converted install from there. To say it was slow is the understatement of the year	13:19
MohammadAG51	Jaffa, just a bit, doing some physics hw	13:20
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: given NOLO is software running on the phone, it seems 3.0 is enough to start up the hw	13:20
jacekowski	well, but charging is stopped	13:20
DocScrutinizer	who's doing that??	13:21
jacekowski	bme	13:21
DocScrutinizer	here nobody stopped charging	13:21
jacekowski	bme stops charging on startup	13:21
psycho_oreos	stef_204, which comes back to the point of actually buying portable hard disks.. you'll only need it to migrate windows into virtualised environment, once you're satisfied, you can get rid of the proper windows install and run windows from virtualisation.. either that or upgrade your network setup, it sounds like you are still using something like 100Mbit connection :)	13:21
jacekowski	checks usb connector	13:21
DocScrutinizer	except NOLO when un 'u' mode	13:21
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jacekowski	and then starts charging again	13:21
DocScrutinizer	that may be correct	13:21
jacekowski	so you have couple ms	13:21
DocScrutinizer	yup	13:22
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jacekowski	which could be enough to make phone shutdown	13:22
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DocScrutinizer	...which might be enough to tear down system on a crappy weak cell	13:22
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johnx	psycho_oreos, heh. I was until a couple months ago :P	13:22
johnx	not everyone has a huge hardware budget just becase they have an N900 ...	13:23
psycho_oreos	johnx, doesn't mean you have to be, just need to think outside the box for a moment or two :)	13:23
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stef_204	psycho_oreos: I guess you are right theoretically--it's when I go to practical or implementation phase that things get bogged down--which is my fault as I haven't set aside enouth time to really do a good job on that whole conversion	13:23
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: obviously a cell with a Z to cause a voltage drop of 0.3+ on maybe 500mA is to be considered dead	13:24
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psycho_oreos	stef_204, its just a thought, rather than having to dualboot, which creates some small downtime and a little inconvenience	13:24
psycho_oreos	johnx, speaking of which I'm still using the age old 10/100Mbit switch, so I'm not that rich either :p	13:24
stef_204	psycho_oreos: absolutely, I totally agree. and I have wanted to do it for quite some time. But I got cold feet when the converted windows ran so slowly and didn't explore further for lack of time	13:25
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: well, i was using bench power supply to run my phone	13:25
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: and it required well over 1A	13:25
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: also you battery contacts etc have to be good condition (clean, low Z)	13:25
jacekowski	yeah, but that's gold plated	13:26
DocScrutinizer	WUT???	13:26
DocScrutinizer	over 1000mA???	13:26
jacekowski	yep	13:26
jacekowski	on boot	13:26
DocScrutinizer	FFS!!	13:26
DocScrutinizer	what the hell is going on there?	13:26
jacekowski	rapuyama starts on full speed	13:26
jacekowski	omap starts	13:26
jacekowski	with everything running on full speed	13:27
DocScrutinizer	during transition from NOLO to act_dead?	13:27
jacekowski	backlight on full brightness	13:27
jacekowski	no, dead -> nolo	13:27
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psycho_oreos	stef_204, it sorta pays to have a nice working setup where possible, but look whos talking, I don't have my windows machine for gaming and its sitting right next to me with no OS, with no proper SATA cable, etc :)	13:27
DocScrutinizer	that's really bad	13:27
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stef_204	psycho_oreos: yeah, aren't we all the same.... :)	13:27
DocScrutinizer	esp since there seems to be little to no hysteresis in twl4030 VDD_ok detection	13:28
jacekowski	that could explain some reboot loops	13:28
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psycho_oreos	stef_204, heh, the dilemma which I guess most or all of us share :) too little time too much projects floating around	13:28
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: but "backlight full brightness" on NOLO start??	13:28
jacekowski	yeah, i'm not sure about that	13:29
johnx	psycho_oreos, then we end up on IRC, using up the little time we have. heh :)	13:29
jacekowski	but that's probably default	13:29
DocScrutinizer	I am. there is no backlight with NOLO	13:29
stef_204	jacekowski: obsolutely	13:29
jacekowski	at least it looks like it boots on full brightness	13:29
stef_204	*absolutely ;)	13:29
jacekowski	try to switch it off and on	13:29
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sivang	hi all	13:29
sivang	Is the radio part of the media player in Maemo open source?	13:29
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psycho_oreos	johnx, I consider IRC as a way to make us look more sociable and a way to get out of project hell hole that spins around and round :)	13:30
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: system boot or hw boot	13:30
DocScrutinizer	?	13:30
jacekowski	hw boot	13:30
sivang	I want to create an interenet radio app	13:30
DocScrutinizer	we need to define a few more clear terms, it seems	13:30
sivang	for only for internet radio, nothing else.	13:30
DocScrutinizer	hw boot does NOT enable backlight	13:30
johnx	psycho_oreos, I consider it the thing I mean to look at only while waiting for file transfers and stuff that has to do with my actual project	13:31
DocScrutinizer	you get "NOLO" on a unlit screen, and charging starts (yellow flashing)	13:31
johnx	then i end up forgetting about that stuff and suddenly it's 3:30AM	13:31
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psycho_oreos	heh its always the case :)	13:31
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DocScrutinizer	IRC has eaten my days and spoiled my life :-P	13:32
jacekowski	hmm	13:33
jacekowski	when was charger connected?	13:33
jacekowski	ok, dead phone with no battery	13:33
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: ??	13:34
jacekowski	ok, now pull out a battery	13:34
jacekowski	and put it back in	13:34
jacekowski	press power on button	13:34
jacekowski	lcd comes on with NOKIA logo and lcd on full brightness	13:35
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DocScrutinizer	that's already system boot	13:35
DocScrutinizer	on <3.3 it's supposed to shut down in less than 5s	13:35
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DocScrutinizer	triggered by bme	13:36
DocScrutinizer	without bme it shuts down hard on 3.0	13:36
Stskeeps	power on button != system	13:36
jacekowski	hmm, take a look at	13:36
jacekowski	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking/serial_dump	13:36
jacekowski	[ 0.333] Über-cool backlight fade-in took 9 ms	13:36
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: that's actually weird	13:37
DocScrutinizer	I don't see backlite on NOLO running	13:37
vanadismobile	hai	13:37
jacekowski	hmm, different hw version	13:37
jacekowski	different lcd?	13:37
DocScrutinizer	maybe NOLO does this just before loading system kernel	13:38
sivang	DocScrutinizer: 3.3?	13:38
vanadismobile	is it possible to put a file on the desktop like a shortcut?	13:38
jacekowski	there are at least 4 lcd types that nolo supports	13:38
alterego	christ, for a 10Mbit connection this is going damn slow.	13:38
DocScrutinizer	sivang: 42?	13:38
sivang	DocScrutinizer: :)	13:38
jacekowski	do you have same lcd as i do@?	13:38
kontio	hi maemo testers, new version of querymee is in extras testing, please start testing and if OK vote: http://bit.ly/cxreVB	13:38
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: I bet I do	13:38
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: also the type of LCD is largely irrelevant, as it is at very end of control chain	13:39
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jacekowski	well, it may be just defaults of lcd that decide on backlight status	13:39
jacekowski	as nolo may be not touching it at all	13:39
jacekowski	but then, why is that message on console	13:39
DocScrutinizer	no idea	13:40
DocScrutinizer	as said above it may be a function of NOLO done the very moment it loads kernel	13:40
sivang	DocScrutinizer: you said something about 3.0 and 3.3, what were these?	13:40
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jacekowski	dmesg \| grep LCD	13:40
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: 3.0V is hw bootup threshold. 3.3V is NOLO boot system threshold	13:41
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: what does it say on yours?	13:41
jacekowski	acx565akm	13:41
jacekowski	?	13:41
sivang	DocScrutinizer: good to know	13:41
DocScrutinizer	and also 3.3V seems bme gracefull system shutdown, while 3.0 is hw brute force shutdown	13:41
sivang	so no fs flushout?	13:42
sivang	with 3>	13:42
DocScrutinizer	on hw shutdown? dunno	13:42
Stskeeps	very brute shutdown	13:42
DocScrutinizer	I'd think twl4030 still signals kernel about pending hard shutdown in 5s or sth	13:43
* sivang tries to install acceleromymote		13:43
sivang	or wahtever its spelled :)	13:43
jacekowski	all shutdowns go trough mce	13:43
jacekowski	hjmm, not mce	13:43
jacekowski	that other thing	13:43
DocScrutinizer	dsme?	13:43
jacekowski	yes	13:43
DocScrutinizer	yup	13:43
jacekowski	and start timer	13:43
DocScrutinizer	except maybe hw 3.0 shutdown	13:44
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jacekowski	well, bme should signal shutdown before that	13:44
jacekowski	so it should never get to 3V shutdown	13:44
DocScrutinizer	twl4030 rises an IRQ, then shuts down hw. I guess. The IRQ "IRQ_PWRFAULT" should cause kernel to immediately stop sheduling (freeze all processes), do a sync, and prepare for doom	13:45
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: yes, exactly. bme does shutdown of system 0b 3.3	13:46
DocScrutinizer	s/0b/on	13:46
jacekowski	btw. i was thinking about external battery charger	13:47
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jacekowski	like 4x1.5V battery	13:47
jacekowski	do you know if anybody tried 6V on that port	13:47
DocScrutinizer	but you can stop bme, or repeatedly poweron system, which will run with backlight and all for some few seconds each time, or keep nolo in 'u', and you'll reach 3.0 hard shutdown	13:48
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: (6V) no idea	13:48
jacekowski	bq24150 can do 25V	13:48
DocScrutinizer	no, it can survive 25V	13:48
jacekowski	yeah, i would expect it to operate at 6V	13:49
DocScrutinizer	though there's more than just bq24150 on VBUS	13:49
jacekowski	i'm not sure about melting other stuff that's connected to vbus	13:49
alterego	Strange, look s like my dads vista machine blocks ssh out :/	13:49
jacekowski	http://kyon.pl/img/17085,cat,dog,strip,comparison,.html	13:50
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: :-D	13:51
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: well, 6V might be OK (don't quote me on that)	13:59
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DocScrutinizer	but odds are bq24150 will rise an error flag, and bme is stopping charging. I'd at very least use a LD-regulator to 5V	14:01
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DocScrutinizer	consideing voltage of one primary cell might be from 1.2 to 1.6, a booster and just 2 or 3 cells might serve much better anyway	14:03
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DocScrutinizer	this concept is commonly known as mintybox charger	14:03
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koffeekan	hello all	14:04
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: CA-146C dongle is a convenient booster and OV protector	14:05
koffeekan	anyone awake?	14:05
DocScrutinizer	no	14:05
koffeekan	ohai	14:05
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koffeekan	i have a question about my n770 and gpecalendar on os2007he	14:06
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koffeekan	all i want is a calendar to keep track of my appts on the n770 but these dependencies are driving me nutz	14:07
DocScrutinizer	~ask	14:07
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	14:07
koffeekan	lol	14:07
koffeekan	os2007he has older versions of libsoup, libc6 etc. is it possible to update these easily? or is there another calendar app?	14:08
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koffeekan	alternatively, is there a sound fix available for 2008he that actually works for the n770? also is it worth it to do the 48mhz speed bump and install to mmc?	14:12
DocScrutinizer	it's 770, the N came with N800	14:13
koffeekan	:/	14:14
DocScrutinizer	seems few users have working 770 nowadays	14:14
koffeekan	well crap	14:14
koffeekan	i was given this by one of my friends for help with an art installation, was nib sealed	14:15
alterego	god damnit this download is taking forever.	14:15
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koffeekan	welp i guess i will be using my ipod touch instead	14:17
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DocScrutinizer	koffeekan: anyway you'll have to linger on here for a day or two, to meet someone who can answer your questions regarding 770	14:18
koffeekan	ok	14:19
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alterego	I've got a working 7u0	14:21
alterego	770 ..	14:21
alterego	Though it sits in a drawer doing nothing :)	14:21
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koffeekan	lol	14:21
koffeekan	i just want a calendar so i could use it for an organiser	14:22
alterego	Right next to the N800 and the N810	14:22
knightstalker	Hello,I wanted to know if I can install macchanger on my Maemo(to change mac),or is there any other ways?	14:22
alterego	koffeekan: google calendar? :)	14:22
koffeekan	and os2008he is too unstable, 2007he is a sweetspot	14:22
alterego	koffeekan: agreed,	14:22
alterego	I'm still quite suprised a 10Mbit connection is getting worse than 2Mbit speeds ..	14:23
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koffeekan	god i just wish i could get gpe working	14:23
koffeekan	its so slick	14:23
alterego	If I knew it was going to be this slow I would have just done it at my home ..	14:23
alterego	I also feel slightly dirty download Windows 7 Ultimate ..	14:24
alterego	+/download/downloading	14:24
dneary	Hi	14:24
dneary	Jaffa, w00t: about?	14:25
alterego	Do we have the source to the connection manager status bar applet?	14:26
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Jaffa	dneary: pong	14:27
Stskeeps	w00t's still travelling to my knowledge	14:27
dneary	Jaffa, I feel terrible	14:27
Jaffa	dneary: w00t is on a flight, AFAICT	14:27
* alterego gives dneary a hug		14:27
DocScrutinizer	lo dneary	14:28
dneary	Hi all	14:28
dneary	alterego, Thanks	14:28
dneary	Jaffa, Anyway, you saw my email last night, I see	14:29
alterego	:)	14:29
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Jaffa	dneary: Yup; apparently the council are in deliberations.	14:29
Stskeeps	meh, what's an election without scandals	14:29
Stskeeps	:P	14:29
Jaffa	zactly	14:30
alterego	hahah	14:30
dneary	Jaffa, Basically, I said "Oh, that's really serious, you'll have to be thrown out of the election. More comments below." And then below there was "Only kidding, thius seems like a minor omission. Here's what I suggest you do..."	14:30
DocScrutinizer	scandals?	14:30
dneary	Jaffa, So, uhm, victim of my own sense of humour.	14:30
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koffeekan	ho-ly shit	14:31
koffeekan	i switched repository for maemo extras to bora and the install worked	14:32
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koffeekan	it was on chinook >.<	14:32
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	14:33
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koffeekan	oh man i am a hurf mcdurf tonight	14:34
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defragger	where are the repositories in maemo saved? my /etc/apt/sources.list is empty	14:35
Jaffa	dneary: heh	14:37
koffeekan	anyone know of a good theme for 0s2007he on 770?	14:37
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RST38h	<yawn>	14:54
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knightstalker	Hello,I wanted to know if I can install macchanger on my Maemo(to change mac),or is there any other ways?	14:55
tank-man	sounds evil :)	14:55
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defragger	what package contains sdl-config?	14:56
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knightstalker	tank-man?	14:56
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tank-man	knightstalker, not many legit reasons to change mac address	14:57
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knightstalker	tank-man,I assume auditing security/security tests are legal	14:58
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tank-man	i havent done it but it is possible from the forum topics ive seen	14:59
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knightstalker	Okay,I'll search Soon! :P	15:00
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MohammadAG	does anyone have a link to the guy who replaced the N900's port with a mini USB one?	15:01
MohammadAG	Jaffa back :)	15:01
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: 'lo. Just about to eat :)	15:03
SpeedEvil	why not replace it with the right part?	15:03
MohammadAG	Jaffa heh, kk	15:03
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famicom	Hi, i got my n900 running meamo 5 3 days ago	15:13
famicom	I love it, but i wanna know a little bit more before i start pulling apart the meamo platform	15:13
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famicom	Can i seperate my personal/professional workflows	15:14
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famicom	right now, i have personal and business conversations in SMS/IM mixed with eachother	15:15
famicom	also, on my HTC Touch Pro 2, there was this syncing service "Microsoft MyPhone" which allowed me to sync notes, sms messages, phonenumbers, photos, media, etc etc over HDSPA/G3 to a remote webservice	15:16
famicom	is something similar possible with the Meamo platform	15:16
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sandstorm	is there any good compilation of N900 tweaks in terms of performance and battery life on a single thread or site? thanks for help.	15:22
sandstorm	an upto date if available.	15:23
dneary	sandstorm, There's a wiki page	15:23
dneary	But honestly the advice there isn't great	15:23
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SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management	15:23
dneary	But I'm not really able to improve on it	15:24
SpeedEvil	It's not user friendly though.	15:24
SpeedEvil	I need to polish it and get it nice, but life is getting in the way	15:24
SpeedEvil	Basically.	15:24
MohammadAG	Qt Creator is a bit hard to use	15:24
SpeedEvil	Don't use screen at max brightness unless you can avoid it. Don't use anything that polls over 3G, don't use skype ever.	15:25
jpinx	SpeedEvil: I'll drink to that - skype EATS battery and bandwidth	15:25
sandstorm	hmm	15:25
kerio	omnomnomnom	15:26
sandstorm	I didnt even enabled 3g from my gsm provider	15:26
sandstorm	I knew it drains battery much	15:26
kerio	nah, any kind of active data connection does that	15:26
sandstorm	its automatically on 2.5g, do you suggest me to enforce it to 2g ?	15:26
sandstorm	if there is no active data flow, 3g is harmless ?	15:27
sandstorm	instead of telecomunnications data packets of course.	15:27
kerio	an active, idle 3g connection is hardly measurable	15:27
sandstorm	lets assume I talk to my friend 10 minutes, will there be difference in battery drainage between 2g and 3g ?	15:28
jpinx	sandstorm: not sure about "idle" in 3g, but these connections are always pinging and generally keeping themselves alive, so there will always be usage	15:28
sandstorm	that's what I was thinking as well	15:28
sandstorm	so that if I dont need 3g why to enable it.	15:28
sandstorm	I only use internet via wifi	15:29
sandstorm	but what about 2.5g and 2g	15:29
jpinx	sandstorm: all the connections use a lot of power - wifi too	15:29
famicom	here's something i find interesting	15:29
kerio	jpinx: nah, idle connection (with no data) are really low on battery usage	15:29
sandstorm	I wonder if I should enforce 2g with the network switcher application	15:29
sandstorm	I know but I cant avoid wifi at some point	15:30
sandstorm	I dont use it constantly though	15:30
famicom	on my touch pro 2 running windows mobile 6.5, i could use mobile internet and mobile IM all day long and the battery would be fine	15:30
famicom	with the n900 it's drained before i even get back from whatever it is i'm doing outside	15:30
* jpinx wonders why someone would want a mobile to be alwys online		15:30
famicom	jpinx work	15:30
Corsac	or just have a jabber connection always on	15:31
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famicom	that too	15:31
sandstorm	no ideas on 2.5g and 2g ?	15:31
famicom	jpinx is there a way to kill off connections	15:32
sandstorm	other question is, if I disable some of the 4 desktops, would it make a significant sense in terms of battery?	15:32
famicom	i mean, even if i adjust my own usage behavior, it would be nice if i can get apps acting rude eating power to play nice	15:32
jpinx	famicom: sure	15:33
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jpinx	sandstorm: use the switch to put the screen off, don't wait for the timeout	15:33
sandstorm	I didnt mean that	15:33
jpinx	turn the volume down	15:34
sandstorm	as default we get 4 desktops on hildon	15:34
sandstorm	I only use 3 or 2 of them	15:34
jpinx	we do?	15:34
sandstorm	I do at least	15:34
jpinx	I have never bothered with those	15:34
famicom	ugh, using applications written by others at times is like having to take care of another parent's kid, "I don't care what your parent allows you to do, in my house (computer) you follow my rules!"	15:34
jpinx	who's hildon?	15:34
famicom	it's an app	15:34
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famicom	well not an app	15:34
famicom	but a collection of apps for a desktop environment	15:35
sandstorm	the original hildon	15:35
sandstorm	not mohammad's	15:35
famicom	peace be upon him	15:35
jpinx	tbh there's too much "dressing" and not enough functionality for my taste	15:36
jpinx	there isn't even a decent calendar	15:36
famicom	write one	15:36
famicom	the platform is completely open, if you don't like something, fix it	15:36
jpinx	I have better things to do ;) so I install a chroot and install what I really need there ;)	15:37
famicom	there we go :)	15:37
sandstorm	what is missing in calendar at your point of view?	15:38
Jartza	not everybody can fix things	15:38
jpinx	sandstorm: try scrolling one week at a time	15:38
SpeedEvil	sandstorm: killing off the desktops should have almost no effect	15:38
sandstorm	hmm	15:38
jpinx	sandstorm: try making a note for a day and seeing it in the monthly view	15:38
Corsac	sandstorm: multiple syncable calendars	15:39
sandstorm	SpeedEvil: allright then, eliminated that, thanks for info	15:39
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SpeedEvil	sandstorm: what sort of battery life are you seeing?	15:39
SpeedEvil	Oh	15:39
famicom	Jartza true, but those people should either learn to fix it, or they should provide clear instructions for those who can fix it what they should fix	15:40
SpeedEvil	Also - make sure your AP is power-saving proprly if using wifi	15:40
* jpinx gets a day with "medium" usage		15:40
SpeedEvil	famicom: Providing clear instructions takes time.	15:40
sandstorm	SpeedEvil: not a too bad one, but if I have the chance, I will try to improve it and the performance. the visuals are not the top priority for me. performance and battery life are. I got like 2 days average of battery life.	15:40
SpeedEvil	famicom: And can be disheartening if you do it several times and nothing happens	15:40
famicom	if it doesn't work, it means you need to try something different, and try again	15:41
Jartza	famicom: I agree to some point. but personally I also appreciate just input from users, even in form "I just don't like it".	15:41
SpeedEvil	2 days is generally fairly good, unless it's idle.	15:41
SpeedEvil	I've gotten up to around 8 with it all-but idle.	15:41
famicom	Jartza, this is true :)	15:41
sandstorm	a noobish question, is the code of Nokia's calendar open source?	15:41
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famicom	what i hate is people with a sense of entitlement (I USE YOUR STUFF, THEREFORE YOU MUST TREAT ME LIKE A KING)	15:41
SpeedEvil	sandstorm: No. It's an awesome bitr of nokia IP.	15:41
jpinx	well - if someone owns up to writing the calendar I can provide polite and constructive critique ;)	15:42
Jartza	famicom: well, in traditional world the customer should be the king :)	15:42
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famicom	not really, only if you pay for it	15:42
Jartza	of course, open source changes things, especially if the customer isn't a paying one	15:43
jpinx	but I know some of the guys who put their souls into the software are a bit toucht	15:43
jpinx	touchy	15:43
SpeedEvil	I have no problem with the customer being king. If he lends me a handmaiden or two, he gets _much_ better service.	15:43
famicom	price = cost of resources + value of time + value of expertise	15:43
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famicom	exactly :)	15:43
SpeedEvil	Semi-seriously - random RL stuff is taking _way_ too much of my energy.	15:43
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jpinx	RL stuff ?	15:43
SpeedEvil	Real Life.	15:44
Jartza	unfortunately joe avderage-user just buys a phone, installs software and doesn't care where the software came from :P	15:44
SpeedEvil	It's what happens when you step away from the computer.	15:44
jpinx	ah - it's random computer stuff that gets in my way :)	15:44
jpinx	like having to find a calender that works ;)	15:44
Jartza	and joe average still thinks hes a paying customer	15:44
famicom	and joe average can go fuck himself	15:45
sandstorm	:O	15:45
jpinx	jpe average did pay - he paid nokia	15:45
SpeedEvil	It would be awesome if the company would allocate .1% of the purchase price to bugfixes.	15:45
DocScrutinizer	~RL	15:45
infobot	well, rl is Real Life (the bad world out there), or known as the Big Blue Box (tm). Conways game using only rational numbers	15:45
Jartza	famicom: they sometimes do. and buy an iphone/android :)	15:45
SpeedEvil	And there was some way to aggregate consumer wants on bugfixes.	15:45
famicom	customers are like misbehaving children, it's bad behavior and needs to be corrected	15:46
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famicom	SpeedEvil there is	15:46
Jartza	I don't think it's customers fault that they have application manager in phone they bought	15:46
jpinx	I have a girlfriend with an iphone, and the n900 is much better in many ways, but is let down by details	15:47
famicom	probably	15:47
Jartza	but... off to cooking :)	15:47
famicom	but if the overall experience is better, it's a better product	15:48
famicom	clear and simple	15:48
jpinx	I have never Ãless than 6 apps running at thesame time - and ofen many more	15:48
sandstorm	I can't see userlist on xchat, anyone experiencing that?	15:48
* jpinx uses irssi		15:48
MohammadAG51	enable it?	15:48
SpeedEvil	sandstorm: yes	15:48
SpeedEvil	sandstorm: you need tot urn it on.	15:48
DocScrutinizer	sandstorm: F7 - err, menu-view-userlist	15:48
sandstorm	SpeedEvil: the problem is, its already turned on :O	15:48
SpeedEvil	Top menu -> xchat -> view userlist	15:49
SpeedEvil	IIRC	15:49
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DocScrutinizer	sandstorm: then try pulling right border to the center of screen	15:49
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sandstorm	I see a little border	15:49
sandstorm	on the left	15:49
sandstorm	when I turn it on	15:49
DocScrutinizer	it's sized to zero width	15:49
SpeedEvil	actually	15:49
sandstorm	but dunno how to drag it	15:49
SpeedEvil	top-window	15:49
SpeedEvil	then view	15:49
SpeedEvil	then userlist	15:49
SpeedEvil	to toggle	15:49
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sandstorm	letme test	15:50
DocScrutinizer	or change the related numeric value in .xchat/xchat.conf	15:50
sandstorm	userlist already got the check besides it	15:51
sandstorm	I see a border on left	15:51
sandstorm	but cant expand it	15:51
sandstorm	hmm	15:51
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sandstorm	dont know how it got zeroed in size	15:51
sandstorm	by itself	15:51
SpeedEvil	oh - right - I thought you wanted it off	15:52
SpeedEvil	drag the bar on the very right of the screen to expand it	15:53
sandstorm\|mobile	finally i could expand it by trying to drag it with stylus	15:53
DocScrutinizer	gui_pane_left_size = 111; gui_pane_right_size = 494;gui_ulist_hide = 1 gui_ulist_left = 0 gui_ulist_pos = 3 gui_ulist_resizable = 1 gui_ulist_show_hosts = 0 gui_ulist_sort = 0 gui_ulist_style = 0	15:53
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sandstorm\|mobile	but it was not so easy letme say	15:53
DocScrutinizer	in /home/user/.xchat2/xchat.conf	15:53
DocScrutinizer	oh, you managed to drag it :-)	15:54
sandstorm\|mobile	tyvm for that internal info	15:54
sandstorm\|mobile	yes it was challenging :p	15:54
sandstorm\|mobile	hmm i wonder if i can align it to right	15:55
DocScrutinizer	(how it got zeroed in size) think it comes with defaults set up like that :-/	15:55
sandstorm\|mobile	ah what a bad default setup	15:56
DocScrutinizer	(right) I have, there's a setting in prefs	15:56
sandstorm\|mobile	uilist pos?	15:56
DocScrutinizer	prolly	15:56
sandstorm\|mobile	letme see the prefs first	15:56
DocScrutinizer	cya	15:57
sandstorm	thanks alot	15:57
sandstorm	see you	15:57
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* MohammadAG lurks in #ubuntu		16:14
MohammadAG	it's hostile towards new users	16:14
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lcuk	MohammadAG, its not	16:14
lcuk	but on busy chans its easy for a new user to get drowned out	16:15
lcuk	whenever I am around places like that I look for the little voice and try to respond to them	16:15
MohammadAG	I'm not talking about myself	16:15
MohammadAG	I'm just looking at replies	16:15
MohammadAG	I like the bot though	16:15
lcuk	yeah i idle there myself sometimes	16:15
jpinx	which bot? I think there's several	16:16
MohammadAG	ubotto	16:16
* lcuk lurks in #liqbase		16:16
sivang	MohammadAG: it is? :)	16:17
visz	lots of rtfm?	16:17
MohammadAG	sometimes that's needed	16:17
MohammadAG	~debian visz	16:17
* infobot tells visz to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!		16:17
visz	=)	16:17
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jpinx	:)	16:18
MohammadAG	Upgrading to 10.10, I'm gonna regret this	16:18
sandstorm	:O	16:19
MohammadAG	the Nokia SDK is nice, the Qt Creator it includes it better than the one in the ubuntu repos	16:19
visz	if it's not broken...	16:19
* jpinx passes MohammadAG the root...		16:19
MohammadAG	visz, break it?	16:19
visz	don't upgrade it	16:19
sivang	MohammadAG: you will, I heard it is a pain on some gfx chipsets/board chipset combinations	16:19
lcuk	MohammadAG, then who deals with buntu integration of those components?	16:20
MohammadAG	crap, proprietary NVidia here	16:20
lcuk	u	16:20
MohammadAG	lcuk, not sure	16:20
visz	don't use gnome on my ubuntu netbook remix laptop, but what i've heard the 10.10 makes things worse	16:20
MohammadAG	Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>	16:20
lcuk	getting the latest nokia sdk and qt creator onto ubuntu or preferably meego would be good :P	16:20
sivang	lcuk: there's the ubunut-x ml, but it is not for bug reports or user support, it said launchpad is the address for that these days	16:20
sivang	lcuk: that is VERY easy	16:21
MohammadAG	It doesn't have the Symbian emu though	16:21
MohammadAG	for some reason	16:21
lcuk	sivang, then follow it up?	16:21
sivang	MohammadAG: you have to get the "mobile" sdk	16:21
lcuk	i bet there will be more niggles	16:21
MohammadAG	sivang, i think it's the mobile one	16:21
MohammadAG	has a Maemo emu, but I think the symbian one is for Windows only	16:21
visz	ah, found the appropriate quote: http://bash.org/?152037	16:21
sivang	lcuk: I just downloaded and installed, and Maemo and Symbian emu works fine on a non VT netbook	16:22
sivang	lcuk: using 9.04 I think	16:22
lcuk	visz, "non VT" means nothing	16:22
sivang	note it is just emulation	16:22
visz	huh?	16:22
lcuk	meh	16:22
visz	oh	16:22
lcuk	MohammadAG, i fiddled with liqflow on my laptop	16:22
lcuk	did a flow with 50k particles	16:23
lcuk	it was happy and fully flowing at 25k though	16:23
MohammadAG	lcuk, got a deb?	16:23
lcuk	libliqbase builds happily as does liqbase playground	16:23
lcuk	you had them yourself	16:23
MohammadAG	not on X64 :P	16:23
lcuk	:)	16:23
lcuk	i am using 32b	16:23
MohammadAG	my tablet was x86	16:24
sivang	MohammadAG: ah, you are right I confused with windows, Symbian tooling is available only on Windows	16:24
lcuk	the x64 stuff was on fellow collaboran spyros computer	16:24
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lcuk	he can send me a patch if he gets it working :P	16:24
MohammadAG	I'm looking at C++/Qt atm	16:24
MohammadAG	it looks sorta confusing, coming from python :P	16:24
DocScrutinizer51	lo mo	16:25
MohammadAG	I'm looking at sources, are .h files auto generated or something?	16:25
MohammadAG	or do I just c&p all void lines into one	16:25
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mkpaa	back to questions... what is the easiest way to boot n810 from external memory card? is custom initfs the only way?	16:25
lcuk	MohammadAG, "ntpd -s"	16:25
lcuk	i have to run this after connecting to my network	16:26
* MohammadAG reads visz's quote		16:26
sivang	MohammadAG: you have any knowledge of C++?	16:26
lcuk	to reset clock after removing battery	16:26
MohammadAG	linux is gay, what is ntpd :P	16:26
MohammadAG	jk	16:26
MohammadAG	sivang, not really	16:26
lcuk	it doesnt appear to run when the network connects	16:26
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: .h aren't autogenerated, except for some qt stuff iirc	16:26
MohammadAG	this is Qt	16:26
lcuk	network time daemon	16:26
MohammadAG	lcuk, I asked for that?	16:26
lcuk	and even when I run it from console, it changes time	16:26
sivang	MohammadAG: .h files are like the "interface declerations"	16:26
lcuk	but the clock widget in top left	16:26
lcuk	doesnt refresh	16:27
lcuk	no, i am explaining a bug	16:27
lcuk	or set of bugs	16:27
sivang	MohammadAG: if that means anything to you, so to describe the API funcs/methods a certain component supports or accepts,	16:27
sivang	MohammadAG: or "messages" in OOP speak.	16:27
lcuk	ntpd should update time and refresh the clock	16:27
MohammadAG	sivang, and the .cpp files are the code itself	16:27
lcuk	but it doesnt	16:27
sivang	MohammadAG: exactly	16:27
sivang	MohammadAG: "the implementation"	16:27
sivang	MohammadAG: which should be hidden from the clients (	16:27
lcuk	is there a point in OS where a script can run on network connect?	16:27
sivang	MohammadAG: "users" of the classes	16:27
lcuk	and a way of refreshing the clock	16:27
lcuk	widget	16:27
sivang	MohammadAG: Python has a similar notion with zope.interface	16:28
luke-jr	Ahoy thar lcuk	16:28
lcuk	\o luke-jr	16:28
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: maybe clock updates after 60s?	16:28
luke-jr	lcuk: where be ye pirate hat?	16:28
sivang	MohammadAG: http://wiki.zope.org/Interfaces/FrontPage	16:28
sivang	MohammadAG: twisted has them as well	16:28
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, the first few times I ran ntpd from the console it didnt update	16:28
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: that's weird. date gave correct time?	16:29
sivang	MohammadAG: the .h/.c/.cc stuff is sort of explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_data_type	16:29
sivang	MohammadAG: ADTs	16:29
MohammadAG	and .pro files are like makefiles for Qt?	16:29
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, yes	16:29
lcuk	after ntpd -s	16:29
lcuk	the date is correct	16:29
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: also you want to run hwclock --systohc after adjusting time	16:29
lcuk	but to actually get the widget to refresh	16:29
lcuk	i still have to open time	16:29
lcuk	and save it	16:30
luke-jr	not exactly	16:30
lcuk	no DocScrutinizer51	16:30
lcuk	i want it to happen automatically	16:30
lcuk	after net connect	16:30
DocScrutinizer51	iknowiknow	16:30
lcuk	idk console foo	16:30
lcuk	it took me 6 months to remember ntpd -s ya know	16:30
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: it should probably run ntpdate in ifup script	16:30
DocScrutinizer51	ntpd isn't exactly tailored to fit usecase of sporadic network connectivity	16:31
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lcuk	then store a random flag with now date	16:32
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer51: sure it is	16:32
lcuk	and if we have gone back in time to 2009	16:32
lcuk	run it	16:32
DocScrutinizer51	the daemon doesn't cope well with missing connection	16:32
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer51: in fact, ntpd blocks ntpd	16:32
lcuk	i dont really care about 5 seconds off	16:32
lcuk	but it showing 2009 is a bummer	16:32
luke-jr	err	16:33
luke-jr	blocks ntpdate	16:33
sivang	MohammadAG: sort of I think, I think they are used by qmake to create proper makefiles for make	16:33
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer51: then something is wrong	16:33
MohammadAG	is this void MainWindow::createMenus() like def createMenus() in python?	16:33
MohammadAG	createMenus(self) that is	16:33
luke-jr	even w/o network, ntpd is supposed to calculate skew and counter it	16:33
MohammadAG	sivang, ah, sorta like a configure script	16:33
luke-jr	and on a N810 or N900, it only makes sense to have ntpd check the GPS time every so often	16:33
sivang	MohammadAG: similar but the C++ version is using the method in the class wihtout instantiation, while "createMenus(self)" does.	16:34
sivang	MohammadAG: as far as I understand </grain of salt>	16:34
lcuk	doc, if [ -z "`date\|grep 2009`" ]	16:34
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: anyway enabling automatic adjust in time settings only means it's listening to GSM time msgs	16:34
lcuk	hence me talking about ntpd	16:34
sivang	MohammadAG: it is something else if you use this to declare a method	16:35
sivang	MohammadAG: as the syntax for declaring it is quite similar	16:35
MohammadAG	hmm'	16:35
MohammadAG	helpMenu = menuBar()->addMenu(tr("&Help"));	16:35
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MohammadAG	helpMenu would be the object name?	16:36
luke-jr	tr?	16:36
sivang	MohammadAG: yes, if addMenu returns an instance	16:36
luke-jr	I thought it was _	16:36
MohammadAG	idk, that's the example I'm looking at	16:36
lcuk	MohammadAG, i just found out last night	16:36
sivang	MohammadAG: and menuBar here is supposed produce an instance as well	16:37
MohammadAG	was gonna was what tr was lol	16:37
lcuk	adding a textbox onto liqflow lets text input direct on desktop	16:37
MohammadAG	menuBar is that blue arrow thingy	16:37
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: my ntpd is working just fine as my device is 'always online'. For devices with sporadic connectivity I recommend not using ntpd and instead include ntpdate call to ifup	16:37
MohammadAG	lcuk, nice	16:37
zokier	tr enables translateable strings	16:37
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, i dont care the semantics, i get frustrated seeing clock at 2009	16:37
sivang	http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq03-swedish-chef.html	16:37
sivang	MohammadAG: ^	16:37
lcuk	the internal battery is dead	16:37
lcuk	so needs fixing	16:37
sivang	MohammadAG: about 'tr'	16:38
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: how can I help?	16:38
lcuk	make ntp work and refresh the clock on desktop !	16:38
DocScrutinizer51	sivang: ooh, THAT tr()	16:38
sivang	DocScrutinizer51: :)	16:38
lcuk	even tie it in with the system setting for automatically adjust clock if you feel you have to	16:39
lcuk	:D	16:39
DocScrutinizer51	yeah, I was involved in I18n of twinkle	16:39
* sivang is surprised as the amount of help he has been able to provide so far.		16:39
sivang	:)	16:39
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, loads of people have the clock issue now after popping batteries and sims	16:40
DocScrutinizer51	yeah	16:40
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DocScrutinizer51	weird thing is I got the clock-issue even on running down main bat to <3.0V :-O	16:41
FIQ	hmm	16:41
FIQ	election day today!	16:41
DocScrutinizer51	seems there's a silicon bug stopping main bat supply even from powering RTC, if voltage less 3V	16:42
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lcuk	FIQ, really	16:42
lcuk	wheres the link to the voting page people need to be on?	16:42
luke-jr	FIQ: Arrrr, rather, talk like ye pirate day	16:42
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FIQ	luke-jr, yes, it's the same day this year. :p	16:43
MohammadAG	and the Maverick breakage starts	16:43
MohammadAG	(gedit:11462): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory	16:43
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DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: err nope, scratch my prev statement. I have deinstalled ntpd as it didn't work	16:54
SpeedEvil	works for me	16:54
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm, how often do you roam, SpeedEvil ?	16:55
SpeedEvil	Not very often	16:55
DocScrutinizer51	:nod:	16:56
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DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: changing system time with ntpd or ntptime/ntpdate shouldn't make a diff to doing same with date cmd. I can't see why system status clock applet wouldn't update, except if they use an alarmd or other absolute time alarm to trigger refresh, and due to systime adjusted backwards that alarm 'never' triggers	17:05
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johnsq	Hi	17:16
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DocScrutinizer51	anybody recalls what's the special tweaks of proto devices' firmware? What, if anything, will cease to work when flashing a 'normal' PR1.2 image to a prototype?	17:30
lcuk	huh	17:32
lcuk	how prototypey?	17:32
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: F4	17:33
DocScrutinizer51	whatever that means	17:33
lcuk	hoe do i find out which variants i have ?	17:33
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DocScrutinizer51	dunno	17:34
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DocScrutinizer51	cal?	17:34
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lcuk	there might be a sticker but i cant remember lol	17:35
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DocScrutinizer51	osso-product-info OSSO_PRODUCT_HARDWARE='RX-51' ?	17:36
DocScrutinizer51	anyway, what's been the major diffs of any proto to MP?	17:37
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, the device i am on now doesnt say that	17:37
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MohammadAG	env	17:41
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, afaik the flashing images differ	17:41
MohammadAG	maverick beta 1 is better than lucid xD	17:41
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MohammadAG	at least the thermal sensors work now	17:41
sobczyk	MohammadAG: it's still not final ;)	17:41
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ShadowJK	oh wow, ovi music seems to finally offer me drm-free without complaining my N900 isn't an N-series device	18:03
ShadowJK	maybe I should attempt to create an account again	18:03
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sivang	what's that rapid content widgets creation approach Nokia has ? in which you can create apps for your blog or so through a web interface	18:03
sivang	anybody remembers?	18:03
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ShadowJK	is that what web runtime does?	18:05
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sivang	ShadowJK: it uses WRT, but there was a web interface from somewhere to create the widgets apps	18:08
sivang	(AFAIK)	18:08
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w00t	Jaffa: dne.. not here, pong	18:16
w00t	on a bus, but i have my n900 :)	18:16
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MiXu-	On a train o/	18:19
Jaffa	w00t: See various emails. You're not out (yet ;-))	18:19
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w00t	yeah, kathy informed me.. cant easily get them on n900 coz of the mail client i use (sup) but i shall read asap once i get to the apartment im staying	18:20
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w00t	ty :)	18:22
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Stskeeps	i vote w00t be disqualified for being on a bus	18:22
Stskeeps	:P	18:22
w00t	lol	18:22
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Jaffa	SD69 really pisses me off.	18:30
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Stskeeps	he's a lawyer, he's supposed to be nitpicky	18:41
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: Is he? Not just a git, then?	19:13
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Stskeeps	professional git	19:14
frals	w00t: whereabouts are you staying? ;)	19:17
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w00t	frals: er.. good question	19:37
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* w00t celebrates in the small victory of finally finding the apartment and managing to get internet		19:38
frals	haha	19:38
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* RST38h swears, disabling every single multitouch/tap feature of his new shining Synaptics touchpad.		19:42
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MNZ	RST38h, circular scrolling!	19:43
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RST38h	Whoever came up with an idea that multitouch is somehow "natural" never had to use it himself	19:43
RST38h	MNZ: Gone!	19:43
MNZ	but it's really nice :/	19:43
RST38h	Screw it.	19:43
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MohammadAG	well	19:53
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MohammadAG	backing up the kernel by dd'ing /dev/mtd3 does NOT work	19:53
MohammadAG	device won't boot, but what's interesting is, taking out the battery with the USB connected keeps it on	19:54
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RST38h	still trying to unbrick your device?	19:55
MohammadAG	it's not bricked :P	19:56
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RST38h	ah ok	19:57
* RST38h vaguely remembers someone bricking his device latley		19:58
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lcuk	hrw\|gone, i like your writeup about designing in qt	20:10
lcuk	http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/09/17/is-designing-ui-simple-with-qt/	20:10
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* Noobmonk3y waves		20:23
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Noobmonk3y	lcuk, hows the head/ear?	20:23
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* Noobmonk3y has been a busy boy today - could do with a million people to double check my ramblings :) - http://www.greg-roberts.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=7&Itemid=1		20:24
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lcuk	Noobmonk3y, ear is ok, i can hear again now :)	20:29
lcuk	just got back from walk round country park	20:29
lcuk	jake was jumping in tonnes of muddy puddles	20:29
Noobmonk3y	w000p!	20:29
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Noobmonk3y	sounds good fun!!	20:30
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Venemo	hii guys	20:39
Stskeeps	hi hi	20:40
Noobmonk3y	hey Hey!	20:41
Noobmonk3y	having a good wkend Venemo ?	20:41
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: yeah :)	20:42
Noobmonk3y	:)	20:42
lcuk	hey Venemo \o	20:43
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: I was working on a website for my father from Friday to Saturday without having any sleep... and it is still not complete	20:43
Noobmonk3y	haha i know that feeling spent 5+ hours on a blog today - also designing another website and updating healthcheck! so much for a quiet sunday!	20:43
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, that page is awesome	20:44
Venemo	:)	20:44
lcuk	but it needs to show the photos of it in expected positions as it is put in those positions :P	20:44
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Venemo	Do you guys know of a very lightweight non-resource-hungry Linux distro + desktop environment that I can put on my grandma's Pentium I computer?	20:44
Noobmonk3y	Cheers lcuk!	20:45
Noobmonk3y	yeah, i know - lol lcuk - need to do new Healthcheck screenshots this week i feel	20:45
ShadowJK	You're pretty much out of luck, because ooo or firefox/chrome/whatever is going to want 10X more memory than what the Pentium machine has	20:45
Noobmonk3y	Venemo, pretty sure ubuntu would work, not sure on which version	20:45
Noobmonk3y	Shadow, not sure on that, the pentium should be able to handle the basics	20:45
Noobmonk3y	worth a try anyway	20:46
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: I was first thinking of Fedora (my favourite), but it requires i686 :D	20:46
ShadowJK	Well just consider that in all likelyhood it has less ram than a 770 :)	20:46
Noobmonk3y	lol	20:46
Venemo	ShadowJK: yes! 16 MB RAM if I recall correctly, plus a 150 MHz processor	20:46
ShadowJK	Yeah, give up :)	20:47
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Venemo	it ran Windows 95, but something happened to the machine... I will need to look at it next week when I go home :P	20:47
ShadowJK	Even netscape 3 back in the days was a hog on my P133 32M ram :)	20:47
Venemo	she doesn't have an internet connection, so this is not an issue	20:48
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Noobmonk3y	Venmo, probably cheaper on your time do buy her a £50 second hand pc with 5* the power lol	20:48
Noobmonk3y	I have 7 spare dell optiplex's at the moment :P hehe - but i have a feeling you aint local to me lol!	20:48
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: well, unfortunately no. I live in Budapest	20:50
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Noobmonk3y	ahhhh - will be in greece on sunday next week, still a bit to far away to pop buy	20:50
Noobmonk3y	by*	20:50
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: do you mean £ by Ł ?	20:53
Noobmonk3y	lol i meant popping by, so i could drop it off, you can have one for free, but shipping would cost me £50+ most likely! lol	20:53
Noobmonk3y	+ i'm a lazy bugger, and i hate going to the post office lol	20:54
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: oh, that's not what I meant	20:55
Noobmonk3y	oh lol	20:55
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: I just asked whether you meant british pounds? (are you Brittish?)	20:55
Noobmonk3y	i posted the symbol £ (As is pounds) -did it display oddly on your screen?	20:55
Noobmonk3y	yes, i am :)	20:55
Noobmonk3y	ahhh gotcha	20:55
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: I thought the symbol is £	20:56
Noobmonk3y	it is :)	20:57
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lcuk	Noobmonk3y, the further down the page I go, the more I likey	20:59
lcuk	http://www.greg-roberts.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=7&Itemid=1	20:59
Noobmonk3y	hehehe cheers lcuk! its not all there, but that should give people a) a bit of an insight in terminal commands, and b) some N900 knowledge... Will add useful links to each section and finish the rest. Tis basically gonna be my findings of all of the CAT'ing of terminal i have done lol!	21:00
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Noobmonk3y	(i posted most of that blog from the n900 - but gave up after thumb and eye ache!)	21:01
lcuk	good, you are presenting things well	21:01
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lcuk	and healthcheck is a great tool for people to investigate the device	21:01
Noobmonk3y	:) :) - the most feedback from healthcheck i've actually had is people looking at the code and learning about the n900 - and unexpected benefit :)	21:02
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Noobmonk3y	its kinda odd, as i know i don't code too well, but i love the investigation part - what is odd, is really how badly documented some of the n900 parts are :\| - ie, when i cat something, i'd expect a documented list of what something does either from nokia, manufacturer or supplier, in most cases that is not true (like boot_reason) for example	21:03
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: why do you think you don't code well?	21:03
Noobmonk3y	Venemo, As it ignores all good coding practice to get something to work, there are also errors in it, mainly affecting the tools i used to get information. But it works i suppose :P	21:04
Noobmonk3y	not as messy as it used to be ;)	21:04
lcuk	sounds familiar :)	21:04
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: well, I know the feeling	21:04
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: for Sticky Notes, I had to go for several hacks to get things working as I want them to work	21:05
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: because of the number of these, many people can question my ability to create sane code!	21:05
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Noobmonk3y	hahaha :)	21:06
Noobmonk3y	I think i flit between things to quick to learn standards :P - so getting something working is good enough for me :)	21:06
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: hm, your HDR pictures are amazing	21:07
Venemo	for others to check out: http://www.greg-roberts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=11	21:07
Noobmonk3y	awww cheers!!! :) - i love HDR and photo techniques, all of those have been shot on a 6mp EOS 300D :) hehe, my missues has a 400D (And cross fingers, after my 30th in 2 weeks i may have a better one!) lol	21:08
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: btw, HDR = "High Dynamic Range", you could change it in the menu (which says "High Defined Range")	21:08
Noobmonk3y	http://www.greg-roberts.com/images/Gallery/HDR/webphdr_001.jpg - that was my first ever attempt Venemo :) - came out pretty good	21:08
Noobmonk3y	ooo v good point - it kinda is both though lol	21:08
Venemo	very nice	21:08
Noobmonk3y	depending how pedantic people feel lol	21:09
Noobmonk3y	i did that water tanker one, after reading someones tweet ! hehe - so went out, took the camera, 30 mins later that appeared, got hooked!	21:09
Venemo	:)	21:09
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Noobmonk3y	chadi, bit.ly/d08bo0 :)	21:10
Noobmonk3y	Chadi http://bit.ly/d08bo0 even	21:11
hrw\|gone	lcuk: nice to hear	21:11
MohammadAG51	Noobmonk3y,	21:12
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG51,	21:12
chadi	Noobmonk3y: sweet :)	21:12
Noobmonk3y	cheers chadi :)	21:12
MohammadAG51	save screen estate	21:12
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG51, Speak english	21:13
MohammadAG51	Noobmonk3y, today's pirate day	21:13
Noobmonk3y	ooooooooooo yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr	21:13
Noobmonk3y	isnt every day pirate day?	21:13
MohammadAG51	nar	21:13
MohammadAG51	ye don't the piirate code	21:14
MohammadAG51	on a more serious note	21:14
MohammadAG51	Ubuntu 10.10 ftw	21:14
MohammadAG51	this is the least crappy beta out of canonical	21:14
chadi	can't wait to test multitouch	21:14
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Noobmonk3y	ooo cool!	21:15
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y,	21:15
MohammadAG	in healthcheck	21:15
MohammadAG	you're using a combobox and a button for LED tests	21:15
MohammadAG	why not just use a combobox?	21:15
Noobmonk3y	cos erm, didnt know you could lol	21:16
lcuk	hrw\|gone, using it for a specific purpose and actually managing to get a good looking app out the other end is important for the global process - the qt stuff is coming along nicely	21:16
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, sec	21:18
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timeless_pidgin1	Hello from a ferry.	22:06
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Stskeeps	what country are you in? :P	22:07
timeless_stenali	Well. We're about to depart Scotland	22:08
timeless_stenali	And we'll dock in Northern Ireland	22:08
timeless_stenali	Technically it's all the United Kingdom, which is rather boring...	22:08
timeless_stenali	But scotland has its own domestic parliament :)	22:09
timeless_stenali	Dunno about Northern Ireland	22:09
timeless_stenali	So far this free wifi seems to work. There's also a "movie" wifi network. I'll have to sign off to try it.	22:10
Jaffa	timeless_stenali: There's a Northern Ireland Assembly	22:11
timeless_stenali	We're moving	22:11
timeless_stenali	Oh, "stela line is now on Twitter and Facebook" whatever those are :)	22:12
wazd	hrw\|gone: ping	22:14
wazd	hello everyone :)	22:14
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timeless_stenali	Hi wazd	22:14
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* timeless_stenali waves from some sea		22:14
timeless_stenali	Northern Irish Sea ?	22:14
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* timeless_stenali decides to test bandwidth / latency by trying a SIP call		22:15
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timeless_stenali	One way (inbound audio) sip w/ signaling works :o	22:18
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timeless_stenali	They're showing "the blind side". I'm going to explore... Bye	22:27
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GAN900	Worst weekend ever	22:32
GAN900	New N900 here Monday	22:32
Jaffa	Oooh	22:32
Stskeeps	what happened to the old one?	22:32
GAN900	Bad NAND or eMMC	22:32
Stskeeps	identified by what symptom?	22:32
GAN900	Didn't manage to get to the point where I felt like fighting with MeeGo to check for bad blocks.	22:32
GAN900	By it dying while booting at the Nokia logo	22:33
GAN900	and booting fine from MeeGo on the MicroSD.	22:33
RST38h	interesting	22:33
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Stskeeps	GAN900: hrm, usually not good	22:33
GAN900	Indeed not	22:33
GAN900	Somehow it expired itself to coincide perfectly with the end of the loan period	22:33
GAN900	So back to Finland it goes.	22:34
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Jaffa	GAN900: Own bought one, then?	22:34
GAN900	Yeah	22:34
alterego	I really want a second N900 :(	22:34
Jaffa	New or second hand?	22:34
GAN900	$399 from Amazon	22:34
GAN900	New	22:34
GAN900	Friend is going to pay me for my DDP one that he's been using since I got it.	22:34
w00t	GAN900: well, that worked our kind of well, then	22:35
alterego	I've just got a new work contract, so I might be able to buy a new gadget with the pay :)	22:35
Jaffa	After extensive playing with an N8 (nearly typed R8, I wish!); I've concluded Maemo's still the best looking, most flexible and most integrated (except Ovi) phone for me at the moment.	22:35
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GAN900	Symbian just has too much baggage.	22:35
GAN900	I really hope the new execs at Nokia manage to push things in good directions.	22:35
w00t	Jaffa: I must ask, is S^3 really less shit than prior symbian offerings? :)	22:36
Jaffa	w00t: It is less shit.	22:36
w00t	wow	22:36
w00t	that's no mean feat	22:36
alterego	I was tempted into getting an N8 just for cross device development, as I'd obviously like to target new Symbian handsets too, but I think I might wait for Symbian 4	22:36
GAN900	alturiak: sounds like a good plan.	22:36
alterego	It is less shit, but only because they've spent more than five minutes adding touch functionality.	22:36
Jaffa	w00t: The physical design of the hardware is orders of magntitude better looking than the N900	22:36
w00t	yes, the devices look sexy, at least from what i've seen on videos/etc	22:37
Jaffa	Gives me high hopes for the Harmattan device.	22:37
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w00t	(I haven't seen one)	22:37
GAN900	The bit on Engadget about hardware setting software requirements is just unreal	22:37
GAN900	if unsurprising	22:37
w00t	I like the common theme that seems to run through the hardware	22:37
w00t	(design)	22:37
alterego	Yeah, doest look quite sexsy.	22:37
GAN900	Minus that goddamn capacitive screen.	22:37
Jaffa	The E7 is a beast though; hopefully the Harmattan device won't be anywhere near that big	22:38
w00t	am I the only person that likes big phones?	22:38
w00t	:P	22:38
alterego	I dunno, I like the E7 design, maybe 1/2 an inch smaller though	22:38
w00t	i'd love an E7	22:38
Stskeeps	w00t: well, you probably have something to make up for, without a big phone in your pocket..	22:38
* Stskeeps runs		22:38
jacekowski	hmm	22:38
alterego	I liked the keynote, "It's _biiiiig_"	22:38
w00t	Stskeeps: oh you	22:38
Jaffa	w00t: The E7 is a very big phone	22:38
jacekowski	looks like failing usb port have failed on my n900	22:38
Trizt	I don't like the design of the new nokias, feels a bit "boring"	22:38
jacekowski	or it's just hmm, something else	22:39
Jaffa	Trizt: I wasn't impressed by the photos until I saw them in the flesh	22:39
GAN900	Trizt: aye.	22:39
GAN900	The N97 had more much interesting styling.	22:39
Jaffa	Too retro & boring for me.	22:39
w00t	shame about the hardware	22:39
alterego	I felt the same about the N810, the pictures don't do it justice. When I got my N810, I thought "Wow, this is a really sexy device"	22:40
* RST38h smirks at the mention of n97		22:40
RST38h	that one was a disaster	22:40
alterego	Though, the N900 was kind of opposite, the pictures make it look prettier than it actually is in person :)	22:40
alterego	Though I do remember thinking, "Wow, this is a bit smaller than I imagined".	22:40
RST38h	n900 is a 5800 on steroids	22:40
GAN900	Way too much plastic.	22:40
RST38h	i.e. not pretty but practical	22:40
Jaffa	And been hit by an ugly stick.	22:40
Jaffa	Repeatedly.	22:40
Trizt	I wish the N900 could have been thinner, otherwise I like it	22:41
Jaffa	Well, it wasn't that bad to start with; but looks really dated and plasticky now	22:41
alterego	I just think the front could be a little nicer :)	22:41
GAN900	At least it feels good to hold.	22:41
alterego	Yeah, that it does.	22:41
GAN900	I dunno if I can deal with the tilted touchscreen.	22:41
Jaffa	And handy in the case of needing a brick to throw through a window for a bit of burglarising.	22:41
RST38h	iPhone is exactly the same size but thinner. It is pain to hold.	22:41
w00t	Jaffa: hahah	22:41
RST38h	Does not feel substantial, as you would expect phone receiver to be	22:42
GAN900	You really have to have a case for the iPhone	22:42
alterego	GAN900: why?	22:42
Trizt	of course I wish it had a multi core cpu and compass and gyro, built in tv receiver, video....	22:42
GAN900	Which is what makes it genius.	22:42
w00t	I have sent my n900 through a window, once	22:42
GAN900	alterego: dunno, just looks really problematic for me.	22:42
Jaffa	Trizt: I'd settle for a teleport; keep the rest.	22:42
Jaffa	w00t: Really?!	22:42
w00t	yes	22:42
w00t	I fell	22:42
w00t	it went flying	22:42
Trizt	Jaffa; yeah, that had been the ultimate feature	22:42
GAN900	iPhone looks really good in specs and pictures, but you still make money on cases.	22:42
alterego	GAN900: I kind of like the idea, but I'll have to use one before I can say I like it or not practically.	22:42
w00t	slight chip in the frame, but hardly noticable	22:42
w00t	no other damage	22:43
RST38h	GAN900: so you made piece with your iphone at last?	22:43
RST38h	s/piece/peace	22:43
GAN900	RST38h: I want to burn it to death.	22:43
RST38h	hm	22:43
GAN900	RST38h: and don't attribute ownership to me.	22:43
RST38h	hmm	22:43
alterego	Heh	22:43
alterego	You really found the iPhone that bad>?	22:43
Trizt	anyone managed to run maemo on an iphone?	22:44
GAN900	Can't stand it	22:44
alterego	Interesting.	22:44
GAN900	iOS is boring to use, the screen sucks, the touchscreen sucks, the formfactor is irritating.	22:44
MohammadAG51	GAN900, what's difference between a production and a preproduction device	22:44
MohammadAG51	N900	22:44
GAN900	Things are always more complicated than they need to be.	22:44
w00t	I tried an iPhone (again) a few months ago, I was pretty underwhelmed really	22:44
GAN900	MohammadAG51: no N900 badge.	22:44
MohammadAG51	i remember you metnioned something about loaders being different	22:44
alterego	I've got a couple of friends that have them, one is a mobile dev, god they're such massive fan boys, touting how great it is.	22:44
GAN900	MohammadAG51: Says property of Nokia on the inside.	22:44
GAN900	MohammadAG51: the HW ID isn't listed in the COMBINED FIASCO images.	22:45
MohammadAG51	GAN900, so only the loader is different?	22:45
alterego	I just want to shout at them, but I refrain and just remember what I can do on my older, but far more flexible N900	22:45
RST38h	MMohammad: "N900" on the outside, yellow badge on the inside, boot loader not compatible with the rootfs images	22:45
GAN900	alterego: I had a local journalist try to tell me Apple invented multitasking when he got his iPhone 4.	22:45
alterego	GAN900: hahahah	22:45
RST38h	Mohammad: I.e. you have to flash it with specially prepared firmware	22:45
MohammadAG51	alterego, oh so we're similar, except I don't refrain	22:45
alterego	Like they invent everything :/	22:45
GAN900	RST38h: changing HW id to flash didn't seem to affect anything.	22:46
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MohammadAG51	RST38h, I assume that's not publically available?	22:46
alterego	GAN900: you can force flash it I believe, but it might be a bit dangerous.	22:46
GAN900	The one thing that's really lightyears ahead of everybody else on Maemo devices is book reading.	22:46
MohammadAG	what's the HW revision in flasher?	22:46
RST38h	Mohammad: It is not, but a letter to dneary or qgil usually solves the problem	22:46
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GAN900	alterego: worked fine on my proto for 3 or 4 times	22:46
alterego	GAN900: one app, many books? As oppose to 4x apps per book? :)	22:47
GAN900	Until my NAND/eMMC died last week, that is, but dunno if that's related. :D	22:47
GAN900	alterego: one USABLE app	22:47
alterego	Heh	22:47
GAN900	Combined with a USABLE screen	22:47
derf	GAN900: They did.	22:47
derf	With "System 6" in 1988.	22:47
derf	Please ignore all the Unices before that.	22:47
alterego	GAN900: what did you honestly think about the display quality of the screen? Colours and such?	22:47
GAN900	derf: who did what?	22:47
derf	Apple.	22:47
GAN900	alterego: N900 or iPhone?	22:47
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alterego	iPhone	22:48
GAN900	The iPhone 4 screen is gorgeous.	22:48
GAN900	Absolutely jaw dropping	22:48
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GAN900	but it's combined with a UI designed for a screen with half the resolution, so it's mostly useless.	22:48
alterego	I should probably pay more attention next time I see them, and they have it on the table infront of them like all iPhoneys do.	22:48
GAN900	iPhone 1G's screen is ugly	22:48
GAN900	3G is meh	22:48
GAN900	3GS is acceptable color and brightness wise but shit resolution.	22:49
RST38h	but 4G! 4G	22:49
RST38h	4G is God!	22:49
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MohammadAG51	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO	22:50
GAN900	derf: oh, multitasking. Yeah, true, but the guy's a Windows user and was referring to the modern mobile space	22:50
GAN900	RST38h: The 4's screen is god.	22:50
MohammadAG51	Maverick uses ubuntu software center as the deb handler	22:50
GAN900	I wish Nokia would order some of those.	22:50
MohammadAG51	i liked seeing file contents grr	22:50
MohammadAG51	what about the "CBD" stuff nokia announced	22:50
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GAN900	MohammadAG51: if the resolution is shit, who cares"	22:51
* RST38h silently prays to the iPhone 4G scren		22:53
GAN900	RST38h: good man.	22:53
MohammadAG	GAN900, hm, indeed	22:53
GAN900	I want Retina on N9	22:53
sandstorm	I heard that Catorize messes up with battery life, is that true?	22:54
GAN900	sandstorm: no.	22:56
MohammadAG	actually, hildon-desktop does WHEN catorize is installed	22:57
MohammadAG	apparently catorize is only 1 page of icon	22:57
MohammadAG	hildon-desktop thinks it reached the end, so it bounces the page, then it thinks it reached the top and bounces it again	22:58
MohammadAG	so it ends up bouncing the page so fast, you can't notice it, but the CPU does	22:58
GAN900	Hildon Desktop is such a half-assed mess.	22:59
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pekuja	where can I find unzip for Maemo?	23:00
MohammadAG	apt-get install unzip	23:00
sandstorm	so Catorize messes up hildon, it drains battery quicker.	23:00
MohammadAG	GAN900, nah, the new version fixes it, the way Nokia ships packages sucks	23:00
pekuja	MohammadAG, doesn't work	23:01
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pekuja	MohammadAG, what repo is it in?	23:01
MohammadAG	enable devel	23:01
pekuja	that's the only way to get unzip?	23:01
mece	testing	23:01
MohammadAG	mentioning the warning about devel is probably a better way to say that, but since I don't promote shit now, I don't	23:02
mece	just click a fremantle armel link here: http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/	23:02
MohammadAG	sandstorm, http://81.216.215.120/maemo/hildon-desktop_2.2.138-1+0m5_armel.deb	23:02
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sandstorm	I will miss Catorize since flat style sucks too much.	23:02
pekuja	mece, thanks	23:03
sandstorm	MohammadAG: is that your version of hildon or is it the new versions of the original one ?	23:03
mece	sandstorm, it's both	23:03
mece	it's MohammadAG's new version of the original one	23:04
sandstorm	I mean is that custom or the original :)	23:04
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sandstorm	ahh I see	23:04
mece	amIright?	23:04
MohammadAG	sandstorm, it's not mine	23:04
MohammadAG	mine lives in the ssu	23:05
sandstorm	since I am a newbie in this stuff, if I install this newer hildon, may I be updating without problems to a new PR and would it be a clean update removing all the remnants back ?	23:05
GAN900	Ignoring the text of the election rules when they've been quoted at you twice is always fun.	23:06
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MohammadAG	technically, it's the same hildon	23:06
MohammadAG	GAN900, you don't seem to like being in the council	23:06
GAN900	MohammadAG: burnt out. Tired of people interpreting things to their liking.	23:07
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sandstorm	!ssu	23:08
MohammadAG	I only heard about the council when the chromium thingy happened	23:08
sandstorm	~ssu	23:08
infobot	from memory, ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU	23:08
MohammadAG	what was done before (honest question, not trolling)	23:08
pekuja	hm, application manager keeps saying the unzip package is incompatible	23:08
MohammadAG	#maemo-ssu for my SSU	23:09
MohammadAG	it's not _S_ SU at the moment	23:09
MohammadAG	dpkg -i ftw	23:09
MohammadAG	HAM sucks	23:09
GAN900	MohammadAG: facilitation stuff	23:09
GAN900	mostly	23:09
GAN900	We handed out sponsorship for the 2009 Maemo Summit	23:09
GAN900	Um, other stuff.	23:10
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GAN900	Helped get maemo.org ready for the Fremantle release	23:10
GAN900	Oversaw the ITt to Talk transition	23:10
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GAN900	Lots of stuff, in summary.	23:10
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MohammadAG	Wasn't here pre-Fremantle	23:11
MohammadAG	always that the N8x0 and 770 ran proprietary shit	23:12
MohammadAG	Android wasn't there, iOS is meh, so I was stuck with Symbian	23:12
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MohammadAG	then came the N900, read about Maemo, it was linux, so I did a facepalm and sold my N97	23:12
w00t	night folks, I need to catch some sleep	23:13
Venemo	MohammadAG: so in your opinion, N8x0 and 770 runs properitary shit, but N900 doesn't?	23:13
MohammadAG	Venemo, I thought it was some Java based OS	23:13
MohammadAG	Venemo, they all do	23:13
Venemo	MohammadAG :)	23:13
MohammadAG	I wonder how many blobs MeeGo on the N900 has	23:14
kerio	MohammadAG: bme and sgx?	23:14
w00t	plus wifi (I think, I might be totally wrong)	23:15
kerio	i thought wifi was open	23:15
w00t	you're probably right	23:15
GAN900	There's a blob, though.	23:15
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TiagoTiago	hi	23:20
Ken-Young	Hi TiagoTiago	23:20
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TiagoTiago	could someone take a look at the script at http://www.gdhpress.com.br/blog/script-vivo-zap/ and tell me if it's safe to run it on my N900 please?	23:21
hrw\|gone	wazd: pong	23:22
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SpeedEvil	Won't work at all TiagoTiago	23:23
SpeedEvil	This is not kde.	23:24
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TiagoTiago	:(	23:25
SpeedEvil	What's it supposed to do	23:26
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TiagoTiago	setup tethering via DUN with bluetooth, to use another cell phone as a modem	23:27
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TiagoTiago	more specificly, it sets things to use one of the carriers from here	23:29
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SpeedEvil	ah	23:32
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jacktheripper	is it possible to hibernate my N900 ?	23:34
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lcuk	jacktheripper, you mean make it a next of twigs and leaves inside a cave and let it sleep for winter?	23:35
lcuk	if so, sure - you jsut need a handy cave	23:35
jacktheripper	does the kernel support USB twigs ?	23:36
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TiagoTiago	is there a "wvdial" for the N900?	23:36
lcuk	jacktheripper, theres been some hacking on stuff I think, you will have to search the forums	23:37
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hrw\|gone	wazd: catch me during my working day - 9-18 europe/warsaw timezone (22:36 now)	23:38
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hrw\|gone	bye	23:38
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TiagoTiago	Speed£ it has instructions about installing that wvdial thing in many distros uncluding debian derivatives	23:40
TiagoTiago	erm	23:41
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: http://81.216.215.120/maemo/hildon-desktop_2.2.138-1+0m5_armel.deb -- you know it messes up apt-get dependencies so you can't install anything after that? I apt-get remove'd the generic-pr metapackage and it's fine since	23:41
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TiagoTiago	SpeedEvil *	23:41
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, it's not mine anyways	23:41
MohammadAG51	it shouldn't though	23:41
MohammadAG51	same number	23:42
grishnav	hi	23:43
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TiagoTiago	SpeedEvil?	23:45
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SpeedEvil	I don't know.	23:45
SpeedEvil	Sorry.	23:46
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TiagoTiago	you can't tell by the commands in that script if it will harm my N900?	23:46
MohammadAG51	what script	23:47
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DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: what in "Won't work at all TiagoTiago, This is not kde." was so hard to understand?	23:48
TiagoTiago	<TiagoTiago> could someone take a look at the script at http://www.gdhpress.com.br/blog/script-vivo-zap/ and tell me if it's safe to run it on my N900 please?	23:48
TiagoTiago	it has instructions for debian derivades(sp?)	23:49
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: It is safe. It will not work.	23:49
lindi-	TiagoTiago: that page is not in english	23:49
TiagoTiago	i know, but i didn't thought the comments etc would matter to read the commands in the script	23:50
TiagoTiago	when reading the*	23:51
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DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: I don't see the use of this script at all. There's other methods on maemo to set up PAN, and also other methods to create a GPRS connection. wvdial seems highly useless on N900 anyway, at least until we get hostmode working	23:57
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