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| zap | Can you sort phone contacts into different groups on N900? | 00:00 |
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| zap | Also, how do I save the phonebook onto the SIM card? | 00:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 00:16 |
| infobot | methinks optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet one, two | 00:16 |
| ShadSEC2 | Doc, do you currently have that way implemented on your phone? | 00:20 |
| ShadSEC2 | moved the /usr I mean | 00:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope, as this requires editing the system init files, which in turn may break my system any time on arbitrary updates via SSU | 00:27 |
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| ShadSEC2 | Docscrutinizer I havent checked that but, aren't those ssu's very infrequent? and couldnt you just check what it will be affected beforehand? | 00:35 |
| ShadSEC2 | btw, there are lots of binaries in usr that really should be on fast media (ie Xorg) | 00:36 |
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| ShadSEC2 | I have been shocked after seeing how many extras-devels programs are there (without simlink to /opt)... Isn't people suppossed not doing that? | 00:38 |
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| nickaugust | can I put maemo 5 on my n810? | 00:40 |
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| adna | Greetings. Anyone here understand the arcanum of .rtcom-eventlogger/el.db? | 00:42 |
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| adna | I want to do a select on the SMS messages in the database to see the latest one... | 00:43 |
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| pH5 | adna: select * from Events where event_type_id=7; | 00:48 |
| pH5 | you can order by start/end/storage_time and limit then. | 00:49 |
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| adna | pH5: Thanks! So event_type_id 7 is SMS? | 00:56 |
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| adna | pH5: I can't seem to find a clear description of how to query the database. | 00:58 |
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| adna | pH5: ...and the difference between el.db and el-v1.db..? Is there a lucid source describing this online? | 01:00 |
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| pH5 | v1 is the new one post-pr1.2 I believe | 01:07 |
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| pH5 | 7=sms I got from the EventType table. | 01:08 |
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| pH5 | in general, .tables and select * from sqlite_master; were useful sqlite3 commands | 01:08 |
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| ioan | hi. is privoxy available for n900? where? | 01:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | its not available for fremantle | 01:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: (fast media) It seems to me you're mixing two things: ELF on fast storage, and the loaded program's execution speed. Those are largely unrelated. Esp X I'd guess is just loaded to ram *once* and then it's mostly as irrelevant as it gets how far the storage is where the X ELF had been | 01:20 |
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| ShadSEC2 | docscrutinizer time for full boot is important | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh really? | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | more important than a clean rootfs with some free space? | 01:22 |
| ShadSEC2 | you mean it wont really matter loading Xorg from emms than unifs? | 01:22 |
| ShadSEC2 | probable there wont be much difference on second thought | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | exactly for X i'd guess it will slow down boot by maybe 2s and doesn't matter at all during normal operation | 01:23 |
| ShadSEC2 | I fully agree that there needs to be a solution that avoids the absurd optifying thing | 01:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably less than 2s | 01:23 |
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| ShadSEC2 | for me, whatever the solution that solves it, its ok... everything will be better than me having to do most of the stuff on a chroot to dont break base os | 01:24 |
| ShadSEC2 | and also the availability of apps would improve LOTS | 01:25 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for really time critical executables that for whatever reason must stay in /usr/bin and can't go to /bin (which is stll / !) you can have a symlink from /usr/bin to any arbitrary folder on NAND (how's about /opt :-P ), which would keep the executable on same "fast" storage it is now. No reason to keep whole /usr on NAND and symlink 2/3 of the files to /opt because on NAND there's just no space | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's call it "speedification" :-P | 01:30 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: why would you need something like that | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | on contrary to ptification you need to speedify only very few selected pkgs | 01:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kerio: I don't. ShadSEC2 does, it seems | 01:31 |
| kerio | i'd say we abuse /usr/local/ | 01:32 |
| kerio | /usr/local/ on NAND, /usr/ on eMMC | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | like what? | 01:32 |
| ShadSEC2 | Docscrutinizer, but doing that, unless it is done and supported by nokia, its complex enough to be prone to "compability" (ie breakage) problems | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, feasible | 01:32 |
| kerio | i'm still not convinced that packages should need to be on the NAND | 01:32 |
| ShadSEC2 | need? not | 01:33 |
| kerio | wtf are you running | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadSEC2: see my post some 30 lines above | 01:33 |
| kerio | then it's meaningless | 01:33 |
| kerio | have the executables you need to boot on /bin/ and mount /usr/ from the eMMC | 01:33 |
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| kerio | /home/ should be another partition on the eMMC, btw | 01:33 |
| kerio | and drop that MyDocs crap | 01:33 |
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| ShadSEC2 | Yes, you say it is not needed to "speedify" and probably you are right | 01:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | all faintly time critical binaries are preloaded anyway, and fixed to RAM so they won't swap out (another thing that needs review) | 01:35 |
| kerio | with what? the sticky bit? | 01:36 |
| kerio | i thought that never worked on linux | 01:36 |
| ShadSEC2 | I think MyDocs crap is because nokia thinks all user stuff should be available for direct mount on windows by usb | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not sticky bit, it's some other special thing I forgot about | 01:36 |
| kerio | ShadSEC: well that means that nokia is full of shit, isn't it | 01:36 |
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| kerio | there were a thousand better ways to do that | 01:37 |
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| ShadSEC2 | yep, but they dont really intended this to be truly open, i guess it was just a side effect... | 01:37 |
| kerio | huh? it's the successor of the N8x0 | 01:37 |
| kerio | it was never meant to be a phone for users, come on | 01:37 |
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| kerio | the user niche of the n900 are hardcore lunix users who want a cool, powerful toy with linux to hack and watch cat videos on youtube | 01:38 |
| kerio | (oversimplifying) | 01:39 |
| kerio | *on | 01:39 |
| ShadSEC2 | well, if they intended it, they failed in things could have been done better for that | 01:39 |
| kerio | well of course they did | 01:39 |
| kerio | namely, the optification, the fact that mydocs is vfat, bme, pulseaudio (and the binary filters)... | 01:39 |
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| ShadSEC2 | I lost 3 days just trying to figure out how to manage wlan0... and even if I have, it has been having to accept i2d and wlancond are really in control of it... that's not what I would name OPEN | 01:41 |
| kerio | and it's *still* the best smartphone/tablet on the market... | 01:41 |
| kerio | so shame on you, Nokia | 01:41 |
| ShadSEC2 | for the mydocs being vfat is not so bad | 01:41 |
| kerio | shame for making such an awesome device with this stupid, stupid bugs | 01:41 |
| wmarone | vfat is about the only truly cross platform filesystem, sad as it is | 01:41 |
| kerio | well, not exactly bugs | 01:42 |
| kerio | wmarone: sshfs is cross platform | 01:42 |
| ShadSEC2 | in my tests, mounting loop files barely adds any overhead in comparison to directly mouting a partition | 01:42 |
| kerio | and open | 01:42 |
| wmarone | sshfs isn't available by default on Windows | 01:42 |
| ShadSEC2 | you still have the image size limit though | 01:42 |
| kerio | who cares | 01:42 |
| wmarone | kerio: I do | 01:42 |
| Robot101 | wow | 01:42 |
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| ShadSEC2 | and yes, it is the best smartphone/whatever in the market | 01:43 |
| kerio | wmarone: so download psftp | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: :-D | 01:43 |
| wmarone | why, when wifi is slower than USB transfer? | 01:43 |
| ShadSEC2 | my only choice.. and in fact it is as near to perfection that precisely that is what bothers me more... with just a few flaws being corrected it would be | 01:43 |
| kerio | usb networking | 01:43 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: I remember why I quit this channel :P | 01:43 |
| wmarone | not supported by default on windows :P | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: it's not really bad | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | they just got their 5 min | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: I had my 5 min before | 01:44 |
| kerio | i'm just mad at nokia :( | 01:44 |
| Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: yeah but when I'm in bed on my N900 and I get tempted to join in... :P | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | says enough about quality and usability of device :-) | 01:45 |
| Robot101 | fine to read nonsense on irc and /part - not good enough to try and speak sense - seems to make my life better imo :) | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: ...so stay with us a bit longer, it'll get better soon :-) | 01:46 |
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| Robot101 | I'll sleep on it :D | 01:46 |
| Robot101 | 'night | 01:46 |
| kerio | did i scare him away? i didn't mean to do that :( | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: I suggested to fix the eMMC VANILLA image file so it only flashes /home partition while leaving VFAT untouched | 01:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this would allow to ship rootfs COMBINED with matching /opt binaries (or whatever you call the directory then) | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Robot101: topic "how to get rid of optification" | 01:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, also 'night | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | or ttyl | 01:51 |
| Robot101 | 'night :) | 01:51 |
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| pupnik_ | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/nokias-plug-and-touch-turns-your-hdtv-into-a-giant-n8-video/ cute tricks with n8 | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | but... does it blend? | 01:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | feels like lcuk invented it | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then you'd probably have to place the N8 5 feet away _on top of a bacon_ :-D | 01:57 |
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| pupnik_ | :( | 02:08 |
| pupnik_ | :) | 02:08 |
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| AirBender | Hello | 02:11 |
| AirBender | any clues about a N900 succesor? | 02:11 |
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| AirBender | a new model (may be the word succesor doesn't exist XD) | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | There are various assorted new models of phone - but nothing really a direct successor. | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | rumour has it there'll be a N9 | 02:14 |
| AirBender | ok | 02:14 |
| AirBender | seems to me that nokia still doesn't make a bet for maemo devices | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | but not anything to hold your breath and keep your purse closed, if you consider getting a maemo phone | 02:15 |
| AirBender | or meego... | 02:15 |
| AirBender | so N900 still the best maemo phone for some time... | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 02:16 |
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| AirBender | too bad... | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, just good enough | 02:16 |
| AirBender | are you in europe? | 02:17 |
| mavhk | switching to meego's slowed them down a bit, plus apparently the hardware people pick what OS they want to use inside nokia, not the other way around | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 02:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | AirBender: why? need a cdma phone? | 02:18 |
| AirBender | I was preparing myself to buy an N900 | 02:18 |
| AirBender | then I checked the broadband bands available in N900 | 02:19 |
| AirBender | and end of story | 02:19 |
| AirBender | I needed 1900 MHz | 02:19 |
| AirBender | and it has 1700 | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeek, third world aka USA? | 02:19 |
| AirBender | third world aka Southamerica very similar to USA in spectrum usage | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 02:20 |
| AirBender | Chile | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's really not nice then | 02:20 |
| AirBender | yes | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh EDGE isn't THAT bad | 02:20 |
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| AirBender | yes, but I want HSXPA | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, then you are quite out of luck | 02:21 |
| AirBender | unfortunately | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | buy expensive proprietary crap build to order for Chile carriers | 02:22 |
| AirBender | I'm waiting for a new >= N900 device with different modem | 02:22 |
| AirBender | may be it's just better to wait for something LTE | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | unlikely there'll ever be any. GSM Cert is expensive, and if it's a smal market and also a niche product | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | LTE might come, in a few years, yes | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Also for various reasons, multiband is getting cheaper | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | which can help | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | and also Chile might decide to do their own proprietary nonstandard thing once again | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you always need to do the cert for 1900 UMTS separately, which will cost $$$$$($) | 02:25 |
| mord | viva Chile | 02:25 |
| mord | nm me | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: probably rapuyama even would be technically capable of 1900 UMTS | 02:27 |
| Appiah | What version of bluez does PR1.2 have? | 02:28 |
| Appiah | and is there a site where I can check these things? | 02:28 |
| Appiah | oh | 02:29 |
| Appiah | sorry | 02:29 |
| Appiah | http://maemo.org/packages/view/bluez/ | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 02:29 |
| Appiah | I feel so stupid | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 02:29 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 02:47 |
| lolloo | hi | 02:48 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can tether a mobile phone TO the N900, using the phone as a modem for the N900? | 02:49 |
| kerio | probably | 02:49 |
| kerio | try with bluetooth | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | N900 had to die on the last day of the week. | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | What timing. | 02:50 |
| kerio | GeneralAntilles: heh :( | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, new one should be here Monday. | 02:51 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | good luck | 02:53 |
| lolloo | Appiah, whatd oes bluez do? | 02:53 |
| TiagoTiago_ | it's the name of the bluetooth stack on linux, no? | 02:54 |
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| lolloo | what does bluez do? | 02:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | It's dead, Jim :-S | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: what did you do? | 02:59 |
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| Appiah | lolloo: bluetooth | 03:03 |
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| TiagoTiago | ok, they are paired and the mobile is on remote soim mode, what now? | 03:10 |
| TiagoTiago | sim* | 03:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | do i need to install anhything to enable teethering ingternet FROM a mobile phone TO the N900? | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58570 TiagoTiago | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | but | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | you'd need to do it the other way round, and the stack won't know how to deal with it | 03:20 |
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| TiagoTiago | so it's not possible? | 03:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I've not investigated it. | 03:22 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, there is a link for doing it backwards in that thread | 03:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Neat | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle it's just another linux box, and you can configure the routes as you'd like. | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | In practice, ICD and wlandconfd get intheway | 03:27 |
| nox- | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking | 03:27 |
| nox- | some info also in there | 03:27 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | where in that page? | 03:38 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | ah, the part about installing the dummy/null from -devel? | 03:40 |
| nox- | yeah | 03:42 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | would it be possible to tune the N900 camera to not show dark bands when shooting a CRT screen? | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Generally not. | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | The problem is that much of the light of a CRT is emitted immediately as the electron beam strikes it. | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | What may work is using fcam | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | set the gain to minimum | 04:00 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i mean tune the timming so it opens the "shutter' when the screen starts to be scanned, then closes when it finishes, and the dark band is always between frames | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Doesn't work like that | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | The CRT is continually painted from top to bottom. | 04:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | isn't the dark band the period between the last pixel and the first pixel? | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | If you look at it in any 1/1000th of a second interval, you'll see one bright horizontal line, with the rest of the picture comparatively dim | 04:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i know | 04:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | The rolling shutter on the camera will also not typically 'roll' at exactly 50/60hz per screen height | 04:03 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | but the dark band isn't when the last line is scanned and the first is about to be? | 04:03 |
| TiagoTiago_ | hm | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It's an interaction between the rolling shutter, and the brightly illuminated line | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Try for example taking a pic rotated 90 degrees. | 04:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | rolling scan, i see | 04:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | you can't have all the lines of the sensor sensing at once | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | The rolling shutter on the camera has a certain number of lines 'active' at once. | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | These are all integrating light, for the exposure time that is desired. | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | If the frame is read out in 1/5th of a second, is 1000 pixels high, and you need a 1/500th second shutter. | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Then initially lines 1-10 are enabled, and allowed to expose for 1/500th of a second. Then line 1 is read out, and line 11 starts exposure. | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Every 1/5000th of a second, another line is read out, and another starts exposure. | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Fcam may be adequate - if you turn the brightness down - if you can - or use a neutral density filter - sunglasses may work - and turn the gain down with fcamera - ISO. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't have a CRT plugged in ATM, so I can't play. | 04:08 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | so far my tests with Fcamera seems to indicate it's higly dependent on the position of the camera (or the screen in relation to the camera), a setting that keeps the screen fully painted also makes it completly dark if you tile the camera jsut a tad | 04:12 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | tilt* | 04:13 |
| iluminator101 | i am looking for a user agent for firefox on n900? | 04:13 |
| TiagoTiago_ | and it gets all stripey if i take a picture :/ | 04:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | hmm | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | The ISO may actually wind down the rolling shutter, which may make things eorrse. | 04:17 |
| TiagoTiago_ | :/ | 04:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I guess the only option is a neutral density filter. | 04:17 |
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| pupnik_ | "Know ye not, who would be free themselves must strike the blow?" - Lord Byron | 04:27 |
| mord | iä! - h.p. lovecraft | 04:28 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | wait, does it require a PC to tether a cellphone to the N900? | 04:31 |
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| pupnik_ | not over the hotspot app TiagoTiago_ | 04:40 |
| ahynes1 | Anyone around who can help me reflash my N900? | 04:41 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | i need it over bluetooth, the cellphone is a N73, no wifi there :/ | 04:41 |
| johnx | just to report in from the other side: jailbreaking iphones/ipods is a world of pain | 04:41 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ahynes1: what kind of help do you need? | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 04:42 |
| infobot | [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | See that ahynes1 | 04:42 |
| ahynes1 | Well, I've been running power kernel for a while... | 04:42 |
| johnx | and though I complain about maemo sometimes, it beats the hell out of the alternatives for people who want to hack up their phone | 04:42 |
| ahynes1 | and I tried installing multiboot power kernel and it won't boot... | 04:42 |
| ahynes1 | I've read that I should be able to just flash the kernel and get in, | 04:43 |
| pupnik_ | johnx: can you download apps to a jailbroken ithing? | 04:44 |
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| johnx | pupnik_: yeah. kinda, I guess | 04:47 |
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| johnx | I'm actually jailbreaking them from work to *remove* functionality | 04:47 |
| johnx | s/from/at/ | 04:47 |
| infobot | johnx meant: I'm actually jailbreaking them at work to *remove* functionality | 04:47 |
| pupnik_ | bad functionality johnx ? | 04:47 |
| TiagoTiago_ | don't want the employees using the work WiFi to surf for porn? | 04:48 |
| johnx | We use them as kind of 'kiosk' style devices for playing videos. And our users are customers. And those customers are actually teenagers. | 04:48 |
| johnx | We really just want it to play video | 04:48 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 04:49 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | there is probably a cheaper way to get videoscreens | 04:49 |
| nox- | i was just about to say... | 04:49 |
| jaem | Quick question: IIRC the N810 will run from the charger without a battery inserted, but is there any reason why I should not do that? | 04:49 |
| johnx | Don't even ask me why we're using those things, it was made before I was even an employee | 04:49 |
| johnx | jaem: it won't run without the battery | 04:50 |
| johnx | AFAIK | 04:50 |
| jaem | johnx: I' | 04:50 |
| jaem | I'm fairly certin it does, but I haven't tried in over a year. | 04:50 |
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| * jaem is having a bad typing day :/ | 04:50 | |
| johnx | jaem: I'd be interested to hear your results. I could test an N800 here if your N810 isn't close by | 04:51 |
| jaem | What I was wondering was whether it would be problematic to do so if it /is/ possible | 04:51 |
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| jaem | johnx: Sure, although I'll check my N810 now too. | 04:51 |
| johnx | if it actually works, then no, I don't see a reason, because it means they made specific provisions to let it run without the battery | 04:51 |
| jaem | johnx: Use-case is that I have it in the car-mount, strapped to my equipment rack, and I want to have it always-on as a quick feeds/messages/todos screen in my room. | 04:52 |
| jaem | No need for a battery in that case, since it will always be plugged in. | 04:52 |
| johnx | well, you need the battery because it won't run without one ;) | 04:53 |
| * johnx just tested his N800 | 04:53 | |
| jaem | It won't /turn on/ without a battery, but it won't turn /off/ when you remove it - at least, not yet. | 04:53 |
| TiagoTiago_ | if yuo pull the battery while plugged tot he wall? | 04:53 |
| * jaem just tested his | 04:53 | |
| TiagoTiago_ | k | 04:54 |
| jaem | johnx: It looks like it wasn't meant to be done, at least, though. | 04:54 |
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| jaem | Is it going to harm the battery, though? I assume it just runs from the charger once the battery is fully charged, right? | 04:55 |
| TiagoTiago_ | a while ago i was told that even if the N900 stayed running with just the wall there was still the risk that when it gets busy it will need energy faster than the wall provides | 04:55 |
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| jaem | TiagoTiago_: That is possible in general, but I can't speak to these specific cases. | 04:56 |
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| jaem | I know that happens sometimes when plugged into a laptop, but the wall charger provides >=2x the current. | 04:56 |
| jaem | I would think that it would be designed for that not to be an issue. | 04:56 |
| jaem | Ah, well. I 'll worry about it later | 04:58 |
| jaem | Cheers | 04:58 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | cya | 04:58 |
| TiagoTiago_ | do i need a PC in order to use a mobile phone as modem for the n900? | 05:01 |
| johnx | eh? you want to use another phone as a modem for the N900? | 05:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | yep | 05:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | a N73 to be specific | 05:02 |
| johnx | bluetooth? wifi? | 05:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | bt | 05:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | N73 ddon't got WiFi | 05:03 |
| johnx | well, I bet it's *possible* | 05:04 |
| johnx | you'd need to configure BT DUN by hand, somehow and stop ICD from interfering I think | 05:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37710 | 05:05 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i'm not sure exactly what i'm supposed to do though | 05:05 |
| johnx | you're supposed to guess and test, then write a wiki page to help others :) | 05:06 |
| TiagoTiago_ | and it seems i might need a PC to work as a middleman between the two devices | 05:06 |
| SpeedEvil | It's one of these in principle possible things. | 05:06 |
| johnx | probably don't need the PC | 05:06 |
| johnx | you just need the bnep0 device to be up | 05:06 |
| TiagoTiago_ | but i'm not understand what they are saying i should do completly | 05:06 |
| SpeedEvil | But not easy | 05:07 |
| TiagoTiago_ | understanding* | 05:07 |
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| johnx | TiagoTiago_: you're trying to do something advanced that very few people have done. This is one of those situations where you may have to do a little research about the tools involved | 05:08 |
| johnx | and if you're still stuck, ask specific questions | 05:08 |
| TiagoTiago_ | but in that thread they didn't manage to make it work? | 05:08 |
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| johnx | dunno | 05:09 |
| johnx | I haven't read through that whole thread | 05:09 |
| johnx | it's probably theoretically possible, and it'll be a great way to learn about bluetooth networking for you ;) | 05:10 |
| TiagoTiago_ | heh | 05:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, got a text message, went to unlock it, unlocked but the touchscreen was unresponsive. | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Could lock and unlock it (no unlock slider screen, though). | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I tapped the battery out, now it dies after about 15 seconds at the Nokia logo (hard shutoff with no LCD cleanup). | 05:20 |
| TiagoTiago_ | :( | 05:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plugging it into a power source causes it to try to boot, go to steady amber LED then crash and repeat. | 05:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | RX-51, so who knows. | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | On a 3GS now. | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the worst. | 05:21 |
| TiagoTiago_ | Can it be reflashed if it stayes in constant amber? | 05:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Haven't gotten that far yet. | 05:22 |
| * johnx hangs his IT hat up by the door, drinks | 05:24 | |
| johnx | mornin' GeneralAntilles. sorry to hear about that | 05:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really feels like a hardware failure. | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Prototype | 05:25 |
| johnx | only HW failure for me so far is the stylus silo | 05:25 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | what happened there? | 05:28 |
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| johnx | I let someone else hold it to give me directions in the car, they took the stylus out, checked directions, jammed the stylus back in at an angle and now the stylus doesn't want to fit in | 05:28 |
| johnx | I assume it's not totally uncommon | 05:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it's flashing. | 05:29 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles: awesome. I think that's a very good sign | 05:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, first reboot crashed on bouncy status dots. | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Second reboot seems to be crashing at the same spot. | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not a great sign. | 05:31 |
| johnx | did you flash fw and emmc? | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just FW | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Downloading eMMC now. | 05:32 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles: do you have data on the emmc you want to get back? | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not particularly | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, I have books and whatnot I'd rather not have to regather. | 05:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | but nothing I don't have scattered backups of. | 05:33 |
| TiagoTiago_ | johnx: wow, is the stylus intact? that's some freaky accident! 0.0 | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | 52 minutes to download eMMC | 05:36 |
| TiagoTiago_ | hm, what is that tiny hole next to the stylus? | 05:36 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: phones | 05:37 |
| TiagoTiago_ | what? | 05:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Or lanyard, if you'te thinking of the other side | 05:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Headphones | 05:37 |
| TiagoTiago_ | it's between the TV-out hole and the place you stick the stylus | 05:37 |
| * lcuk peeks in | 05:38 | |
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| TiagoTiago_ | it looks like those holes that have a button in the bottom you stick a paper clip in to reset devices | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | mic | 05:38 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ah! | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I think paper clip in it would do bad things | 05:39 |
| TiagoTiago_ | good to know | 05:39 |
| TiagoTiago_ | the slightly bigger hole in the other side is mean for a strap, right? | 05:39 |
| TiagoTiago_ | meant* | 05:40 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 05:40 |
| johnx | isn't that hole the mic? | 05:40 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago_: yeah, it bent some metal clip inside | 05:41 |
| * johnx eats dinner | 05:41 | |
| TiagoTiago_ | the second one i asked about is the one close to the status LED | 05:41 |
| johnx | later | 05:41 |
| TiagoTiago_ | but on the side | 05:41 |
| lcuk | johnx, i believe it is the mic | 05:42 |
| TiagoTiago_ | don't pull out or stick in the sylus while on a call, it's loud | 05:43 |
| TiagoTiago_ | stylus* | 05:43 |
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| lcuk | the other hole near the usb port is for the lanyard | 05:43 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | lcuk, where are you from? | 05:44 |
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| lcuk | TiagoTiago_, Manchester, England. | 05:45 |
| TiagoTiago_ | hm | 05:45 |
| * lcuk finishes beer and sleeps | 05:46 | |
| lcuk | gnite \o | 05:46 |
| TiagoTiago_ | interesting, "lanyard" , i didn't knew that word, but aparently it's quite popular, a whole Wikipedia article about it | 05:47 |
| jpinxN900 | TiagoTiago_: http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/guides/Nokia_N900_UG_en.pdf | 05:47 |
| TiagoTiago_ | cya | 05:47 |
| jpinxN900 | TiagoTiago_: there's a good diagram showing what all the "holes" do ;) | 05:47 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | thx | 05:47 |
| KosKuklin | guys, who knew when new maemo update out? | 05:48 |
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| jpinxN900 | TiagoTiago_: or http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/n900/specifications | 05:48 |
| TiagoTiago_ | KosKuklin: it would show in the device itself, no? | 05:49 |
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| wmarone | KosKuklin: no mention of another update has been made, nor has any release date been announced | 05:50 |
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| KosKuklin | TiagoTiago_: yap ) | 05:50 |
| KosKuklin | wmarone: thx | 05:50 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ahah! It isn't called a "lanyard" in that PDF! :P | 05:53 |
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| luke-jr | is there a Quassel client for Maemo yet? | 05:55 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | ~Quassel | 05:58 |
| TiagoTiago_ | :( | 05:58 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol "Note: in France, you are only allowed to use WLAN indoors>" | 05:59 |
| TiagoTiago_ | s/>/. | 05:59 |
| TiagoTiago_ | erm, that is not it? | 05:59 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 05:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, no improvement with eMMC. | 06:36 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, but the emmc flashed cleanly? | 06:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 06:37 |
| johnx | is there a microsd card in it? | 06:37 |
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| johnx | (forgive the obvious questions) | 06:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope | 06:37 |
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| johnx | well, that leaves a couple options, but we rapidly end up doing some more serious hacking. up for it? | 06:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Dunno, what are we talking about? | 06:39 |
| johnx | well, what I'm thinking about is loading something like meego onto a microSD, then use flasher to load a kernel that looks for root on microSD | 06:39 |
| johnx | then get in there and do some good old fashioned troubleshooting on the linux command line | 06:40 |
| johnx | maybe you can use it to attach some logging and see where the boot process fails | 06:40 |
| johnx | s/boot/maemo boot/ | 06:40 |
| infobot | johnx meant: maybe you can use it to attach some logging and see where the maemo boot process fails | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mmm, I have MeeGo on an SD already. | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Need to get it from my 5800 though. | 06:41 |
| johnx | you might be SOL anyways, but it could be something unnecessary failing that's making the whole thing unusable | 06:41 |
| johnx | I'm also not totally convinced it's not some type of NAND or eMMC failure | 06:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stanza can't do HTML eBooks. | 06:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | How helpful. | 06:43 |
| * GeneralAntilles shuts down his brain until Monday. | 06:43 | |
| johnx | yeah I know the feeling | 06:43 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders where he stuck that MeeGo kernel | 06:44 | |
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| iluminator101 | is there user switcher agent firefox add for maemo firefox??? | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where in the world are the kernels? | 06:47 |
| johnx | not on the meego codedrop site? | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where the hell is the codedrop site? | 06:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Google apparently hates MeeGo-N900. | 06:47 |
| johnx | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 06:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, found it. <_< | 06:48 |
| johnx | the first rule about meego club is you don't tell google about meego club | 06:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Same behavior with the MeeGo kernel as before I flashed. | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia logo for about 10-15 seconds | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then death. | 06:51 |
| TiagoTiago_ | did you flash the bootloader to load straigyht from the card? | 06:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Oops, maybe not. | 06:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fail flasher args | 06:53 |
| coffeecat | Google hates it ? :( | 06:53 |
| coffeecat | but my someday dream is to dual boot meego and android | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, there's fbconsole. | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Black screen . . . waiting | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ho hum | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Boots MeeGo, apparently. | 06:54 |
| johnx | zoom! off to the races | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Now, NAND or eMMC? | 06:55 |
| johnx | just run fsck on one, then the other | 06:55 |
| johnx | and, uhm, maybe a non-destructive bad-blocks test? or is that not a good idea on flash? | 06:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Loading the console took about 3 weeks last time I booted MeeGo. | 06:55 |
| * GeneralAntilles pokes at USB net. | 06:56 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Can't even see the prompt behind the menu. | 06:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too late at night to deal with this nonsense. | 07:00 |
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| jpinxN900 | where does one find the Alt key function on the N900? | 07:06 |
| TiagoTiago_ | A game i don't remember which says the Fn key is ALt-Gr, but i dunno | 07:08 |
| TiagoTiago_ | are there any free DNS tunneling services out there? (somthing where you would set up your client and use their servers) | 07:11 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: what did you do? :P | 07:37 |
| Stskeeps | (yes, i do intend to help, just wondering what happned) | 07:39 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago_: beware, T-Mobile blocks them | 07:40 |
| Termana | yello | 07:40 |
| TiagoTiago_ | my carrier is TIM | 07:41 |
| TiagoTiago_ | (AKA Telecom Italia Mobile) | 07:43 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago_: obviously I wouldn't know what other carriers do | 07:46 |
| TiagoTiago_ | and they can't do much if i'm using it over WiFi | 07:46 |
| luke-jr | except block it | 07:48 |
| TiagoTiago_ | How would they block stuff i'm doing over WiFi? | 07:50 |
| TiagoTiago_ | "Not enough memory to display document" trying to open a PDF :( | 07:52 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago_: presumably you want DNS tunnel to bypass blocks. DNS tunnels can also be blocked. | 07:59 |
| TiagoTiago_ | but they are a cell phone carrier, they can't do anything about my usage of WiFi networks | 08:00 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | WOuld it be ok if i symlinked /var/temp to /home? | 08:25 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | i mean, to somewhere inside /home | 08:26 |
| mkpaa | is there some straight forward way to boot n810 from external memory card and/or is there a good howto somewhere? | 08:27 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | seems everyone that knows stuff is asleep or otherwise AFK right now :( | 08:30 |
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| flux | europe is still asleep.. | 08:35 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol, this sucks, i jsut deleted a bunch of stuff and went check how much free space i had now, and now i have even less | 08:36 |
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| RST38h | moo. | 09:17 |
| bef0rd | hi. | 09:19 |
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| TiagoTiago | can i symlink /user/lib/perl to somewhere inside /home or is it required before it's monunted? | 10:21 |
| TiagoTiago | mounted* | 10:21 |
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| TiagoTiago | can i symlink /user/lib/perl to somewhere inside /home or is it required before it's mounted? | 10:32 |
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| TiagoTiago | :( | 10:37 |
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| ieatlint | someone would have to have a pretty thorough understanding of the init scripts to give you a definite answer | 10:44 |
| spinningcompass | TiagoTiago: You can symlink to a non-existent file if you want. | 10:44 |
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| ieatlint | heh, you can also ignore pedantic unhelpful comments from people who are so bored they think it's hilarious you typed "user" instead of "usr" | 10:46 |
| kerio | LOL HE TYPED USER INSTEAD OF USR | 10:46 |
| kerio | ok, that's done | 10:46 |
| ieatlint | :P | 10:46 |
| kerio | why would perl be needed for the boot :| | 10:46 |
| ieatlint | yeah, odds are if a boot script does use it, it does it after /home is mounted | 10:47 |
| spinningcompass | TiagoTiago: Until /home is mounted, an attempt to call the softlinked file will return 'file not found' or similar, but you can still do it. When the /home dir has been mounted, the link will resolve properly. | 10:47 |
| TiagoTiago | dunno, last time i moved a language intepreter out of it's place withnout being completly sure it was safe it turned out it wasn't | 10:48 |
| kerio | the n900's directory structure is fucked up | 10:48 |
| kerio | accept it | 10:48 |
| jpinxN900 | heh - I'll drink to that ;) | 10:49 |
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| ieatlint | a lot of maemo is fucked up :P | 10:49 |
| ieatlint | linux on a mobile feels like how linux was on desktops back in 2002 | 10:49 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 10:50 |
| ieatlint | everything is janky and feels like a hack | 10:50 |
| mavhk | that's because desktops from 2002 are about as powerful as mobiles | 10:50 |
| ieatlint | nah, not quite | 10:50 |
| ieatlint | but it isn't a processing power issue | 10:51 |
| * jpinxN900 has his N900 hooked up by ssh over usb to a laptop and everything runs ok:) | 10:51 | |
| ieatlint | except perhaps some of the hacks are done to try and save battery or similar | 10:51 |
| psycho_oreos | the issue there is nokia switching over to BL-5J for n900.. the battery is relatively smaller compared to its predecessors. Makes you wonder why | 10:52 |
| jpinxN900 | probably a weight issue | 10:52 |
| ieatlint | obvious guess is size issues | 10:52 |
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| mavhk | now everyone's making 4" phones, nokia could have lead the way, and sold even less n900s | 10:54 |
| psycho_oreos | I wouldn't think of either.. 1) it has lower battery capacity rating 2) because its a new battery, the battery itself is harder to source. Thankfully me younger brother owns x6 and I can see that it uses the same battery as n900, so when it comes to battery sourcing I could also refer x6 or people would get confused over n900 | 10:54 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | btw, would it be ok to optify microB? | 10:54 |
| psycho_oreos | hopefully n9 will be nokia's revenge tact from their linux on phone device side. n900 generally itself hasn't been too bad but it still remains as a highly geeky device (requires tinkering and general acceptance for what its worth) for users/owners to maintain ownership of a device after 6 months `novelty period' | 10:57 |
| TiagoTiago_ | I want Nokia to release a N900 G2 , learning from the mistakes made with the N900 and fromt he feedback from the community etc, but still a N900 | 10:58 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm skeptic of the new nokia CEO.. he may or may not persue n9 and linux on phones/tablets any further | 10:59 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | I don't like how they lost all the zeros but still wanna make it be the successor of the N900 | 10:59 |
| ieatlint | i was drinking with a guy who works for nokia "on an upcoming meego phone" on tuesday night | 10:59 |
| ieatlint | that was about as specific as he could get with anything, but hopefully we'll be hearing more soon | 10:59 |
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| ieatlint | psycho_oreos: hard to say... i think symbian has reached end of life | 11:00 |
| TermanaDesire | That's right the new CEO will make windows phone 7 phones | 11:00 |
| TiagoTiago_ | :( | 11:00 |
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| ieatlint | my guess is the discussion going on is whether to really move on this meego thing, or start looking at android | 11:01 |
| TiagoTiago_ | that would be better than going Windows but still not good | 11:01 |
| kerio | android sucks balls | 11:01 |
| ieatlint | it sells though | 11:02 |
| ieatlint | and nokia needs a selling product badly | 11:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | it probably mostly the hype from being from Google plus general marketing | 11:02 |
| psycho_oreos | ieatlint, I'd personally vouch the versa, symbian has been predominantly on the nokia's standard devices and it could also partially be one of the reasons why nokia is earning revenue. Alas the issue is not only that.. judging by the new CEO has some close ties with Microsoft (being ex- and what not) he would probably be inclined to see symbian as being the major OS for phones (because symbian does have some similarity to windows on phones) | 11:02 |
| mavhk | symbian will be the new dumbphone os, meego the new smartphone os | 11:03 |
| mavhk | probably should rename them cheapphone and expensivephone | 11:03 |
| ieatlint | psycho_oreos: no doubt symbian is one of the biggest money makers for nokia | 11:03 |
| ieatlint | maemo is a footnote... | 11:03 |
| kerio | maemo is a toy | 11:03 |
| mavhk | ieatlint: probably something even lower eg s40 makes even more money for them | 11:04 |
| kerio | even corporations like toys | 11:04 |
| ieatlint | but you can't keep sitting on a dying technology and adding patches and hope shit happens | 11:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | IMO, if they treat it properly, it's gonna be the new Symbian | 11:04 |
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| ieatlint | nokia sales are down 40%.. and that's symbian sales | 11:04 |
| TermanaDesire | But i don't think thats how they are positioning meego | 11:04 |
| mavhk | there's a delay in n900 v2 because of meego merge | 11:04 |
| kerio | n900v2? | 11:05 |
| ieatlint | additionally, symbian was never able to get into the US market much | 11:05 |
| kerio | new rev? | 11:05 |
| TiagoTiago_ | WAsn't it because Nokia didn't advertise much in the US nor tried to offer devices compativle with the technologies the carriers used? | 11:05 |
| ieatlint | intel is throwing a lot of weight onto meego, and if that materialises even for just netbooks, the name recognition could be good going back to phones | 11:05 |
| psycho_oreos | ieatlint, and alas meego might also be following down the same path as maemo. That's what my main concern is.. because maemo lacked audiences when nokia only made maemo NIT it was seen as relatively a niche market for it to aim at. The n900 was their comeback for it as a phone with extra gadgets but that didn't fly well when linux on phone seems to be quite new for them. I'm just hoping the new CEO won't kill meego | 11:05 |
| ieatlint | TiagoTiago: they used to | 11:06 |
| ieatlint | the nokia 6600 was heavily marketed.. was my first smartphone | 11:06 |
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| ieatlint | psycho_oreos: yeah, it's a distinct possibility | 11:06 |
| ieatlint | which is why my bet is they'll head the android route if the new ceo tells meego to fuck itself | 11:07 |
| ieatlint | i think we will see a nokia meego phone, but it may be as niche as the n900 | 11:07 |
| TiagoTiago_ | Maemo/Meego has lots of potential, they just need to play their cards right | 11:07 |
| psycho_oreos | ieatlint, its only a matter of time before the new CEO nominates the new market tactic.. if its `sink or swim' it'll be an end for nokia's linux on phone adventure | 11:07 |
| kerio | nah, meego is now a joint project | 11:07 |
| ieatlint | and if shit doesn't shape up for meego in the next 6 months.. it'll be gone, at least as a nokia product, but likely as a product in general | 11:07 |
| mavhk | kerio: just whatever their next meego phone is | 11:07 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: that would be the wrong thing though | 11:08 |
| kerio | i mean, the n900 didn't sell well for nokia, that's for sure | 11:08 |
| mavhk | symbian is still weird to program for, I hear | 11:08 |
| TermanaDesire | Other phone makers probably wont join MeeGo until they know its going to succeeded | 11:08 |
| TiagoTiago_ | relaly? i thought it sold more than they expected | 11:08 |
| kerio | but it still helped them figure out wtf to do with a really-high-end phone | 11:08 |
| TiagoTiago_ | really* | 11:08 |
| TermanaDesire | Succeed * | 11:08 |
| psycho_oreos | kerio, I know but my personal thoughts will be that, it'll be a hard and fast tactic for nokia as a whole to get back in touch with the rest of the world. Symbian has been on the forefront of nokia's tools and would be seen as heroic but not maemo because it lacked phone functionality as such | 11:09 |
| TermanaDesire | Damn autocorrect | 11:09 |
| mavhk | maemo 5 is just not finished enough for mass adoption | 11:09 |
| ieatlint | TermanaDesire: well, intel has lined up a number of partners with meego (not so much for the handset profile, of course) | 11:09 |
| psycho_oreos | mavhk, symbian is and that's the reason why I hated its control tactics.. waited for n900 to come out locally and I got it | 11:10 |
| *** mrmoku is now known as mrmoku|away | 11:10 | |
| TiagoTiago_ | IT kinda feels like they rteated the phonefication of Maemo as a hobbie project isntead of putting the company power into it | 11:10 |
| mavhk | n900 is a linux computer with a built in phone | 11:10 |
| ieatlint | if meego is on notebooks sold at common retail outlets, and in bmw cars, the name recognition for a nokia phone running it would be beneficial | 11:10 |
| TermanaDesire | ieatlint: netbooks are a low risk area and one that is becoming leas relevant it seems | 11:10 |
| TermanaDesire | Less* | 11:11 |
| ieatlint | eh... i wouldn't say that | 11:11 |
| ieatlint | low risk, yes | 11:11 |
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| mavhk | intel hates netbooks on the hardware side, less profit per item | 11:11 |
| ieatlint | but i don't think tablets will kill them off | 11:11 |
| psycho_oreos | if only nokia was serious about marketing linux on phone as would google does with its android, it may also would have seen as a killer platform rather than neglecting the `niche market' after seeing android hit the world by storm (well almost) | 11:11 |
| TermanaDesire | The ipad has halved netbook sales | 11:11 |
| mavhk | TermanaDesire: actually that's wrong | 11:11 |
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| mavhk | stupid reporters making stuff up | 11:12 |
| ieatlint | intel is also pushing tablets with meego | 11:12 |
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| ieatlint | in fact, a meego tablet on an intel chip comes out on tuesday | 11:12 |
| psycho_oreos | lol intel is probably reminded of their woes with atom CPU | 11:12 |
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| ieatlint | it's no ipad killer, that's for sure | 11:12 |
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| mavhk | silly intel, getting rid of their ARM division | 11:12 |
| ieatlint | ergh, intel had an arm division? | 11:13 |
| psycho_oreos | yes | 11:13 |
| TermanaDesire | Intel trying to use x86 in the mobile arena is not a good idea IMO | 11:13 |
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| ieatlint | somehow intel licencing cpu arch from another company seems... weird | 11:13 |
| TiagoTiago_ | they used to make them, no? | 11:13 |
| psycho_oreos | strongARM is what it was called before it was sold off to Marvell | 11:13 |
| kerio | ARM is efficient, x86 is not | 11:13 |
| kerio | that said, i'll happily buy a n900 with an i7 | 11:13 |
| mavhk | yeah, DEC invented the strongarm, sued intel, somehow intel got their strongarm division | 11:14 |
| psycho_oreos | though ARM requires cross compiling.. or specific arch compiling, x86 doesn't because it can be seen as `one suit fits all' type of approach | 11:14 |
| ieatlint | so long as you have SSSE3 | 11:14 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: my server runs ARM | 11:14 |
| TiagoTiago_ | the N900 is already a guzzler with it's current processor.... | 11:14 |
| TermanaDesire | But x86 is starting with a power sucking disadvantage over arm | 11:15 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago_: yeah, but those i7s are some dope shit | 11:15 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 11:15 |
| psycho_oreos | kerio, that's nice but you still have to compile stuff for armel more or less :) | 11:15 |
| mavhk | x86 is just a risc core with an emulator sucking battery power | 11:15 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: yeah of course | 11:15 |
| ieatlint | cross compiling doesn't need to be that bad | 11:15 |
| ieatlint | although doing it in windows is a joke | 11:15 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought x86 was more of a CISC compared to RISC hence that's why ARM et. al. is winning over the x86 due to the lack of instructions and therefore overhead | 11:16 |
| ieatlint | but the nokia sdk for the n900 is simple and decent | 11:16 |
| TermanaDesire | Mavhk - that's actually a partial myth. I had a link on it discussing it the other day. | 11:16 |
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| mavhk | TermanaDesire: the 50% or the risc core? | 11:16 |
| psycho_oreos | cross compiling can be daunting for people who are unaware of the terms. I know of some people whom uses their n900 to compile stuff natively via chroot rather than using scratchbox environment on their PC | 11:17 |
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| TermanaDesire | The core I believe. Ill go see if I bookmarked the link | 11:17 |
| mavhk | the only real reason to have x86 is windows nt | 11:17 |
| ieatlint | i think the other major issue with meego is that intel seems to be running it more (at least at the moment), and they kind of see the word ARM as a taboo, with slogans like "meego runs best with intel" (seriously) | 11:17 |
| ieatlint | they're risking alienating their open source community base | 11:17 |
| mavhk | TermanaDesire: yeah, it's a massive simplification, but in general, x86 chips have power sucking hardware to convert x86 instructions into the actual stuff the cpu runs | 11:18 |
| TiagoTiago_ | is it ok to optify flash? | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: nah, we're actually an equal participant (ARM) in meego, but you have to recall you went to a meegozone / intel event | 11:19 |
| psycho_oreos | well Intel sold their strongARM division and focused on small x86 for embedded chipsets (hint: moorestown) it seems as though n9 would probably be seen as a likely possibility to have its cores and what not replaced by Intel's SoC solution | 11:19 |
| mavhk | obviously nokia saw that android beat them and they needed partners to compete, intel still thinks someone will make an x86 phone | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: same kind of slogans will come if ARM showed stuff :) | 11:19 |
| TermanaDesire | Didn't bookmark it but what your expanded explanation is basically what it said mavhk | 11:19 |
| kerio | android is iOS for the cheap | 11:19 |
| ieatlint | Stskeeps: yeah, perhaps i'm really seeing things with a terrible bias at the moment | 11:19 |
| ieatlint | all i can say is the people who went coming from an intel background seemed leave just confused, and the people coming from the maemo background understood the presentations more, but also seemed just confused at the spin | 11:20 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm pretty sure the meego on ARM won't last long.. if anything it'll be released on either dev phones or initial batch before intel tries to push through their SoC for ARM-free device | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | uhm.. | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:21 |
| mavhk | win phone 7 is designed to complete with iphone 1, now 3 years later android's the more open platform and microsoft are behind again | 11:21 |
| TiagoTiago_ | is it ok to optify flash? | 11:21 |
| kerio | android is still crap though | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: i've been along from day zero of meego ARM port, so i know what the state of the actual work is | 11:21 |
| mavhk | why kerio? | 11:21 |
| TermanaDesire | ieatlint: my guess - nokia x86 device coming ;) | 11:21 |
| kerio | you're just sucking on a different dick | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | psycho_oreos: that's a weird theory | 11:21 |
| kerio | google's instead of apple's | 11:21 |
| psycho_oreos | right now the unreleased n9 still sports ARM which is rather nice but its still far too early to speculate on whether or not n9 will be using ARM core entirely or because of the joint venture, Intel would be seen as dominant in wanting to make their products fly | 11:22 |
| ieatlint | Stskeeps: oh, i definitely believe nokia is keeping along with arm on meego | 11:22 |
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| Stskeeps | ieatlint: and not only nokia | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | chipset vendors like STE, TI as well | 11:22 |
| ieatlint | cool then | 11:23 |
| TermanaDesire | psycho_oreos: I have no doubt the n9 will be arm, but after that... | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | and we've seen broadcom guys round too | 11:23 |
| mavhk | psycho_oreos: the day an x86 phone becomes popular is the day after the human race accepts asbestos gloves aren't bad for you | 11:23 |
| psycho_oreos | TermanaDesire, after that we'll have to see what nokia's new CEO decides of meego project, which is also a bit of a grave concern for me | 11:23 |
| ieatlint | well, i'm hoping shit goes together on it all | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | psycho_oreos: please keep seperate nokia meego and meego.com | 11:24 |
| TermanaDesire | Yeah but broadcom provides some or the other for x86 don't they stskeeps? | 11:24 |
| ieatlint | i'll be curious as well to see if meego is actually to maintain a unified community | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | TermanaDesire: not sure if broadcom has x86 | 11:24 |
| ieatlint | i suppose i should join #meego-arm heh | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | be welcome, we sit quite a large of people there | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | and view our logs to see our work | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:24 |
| psycho_oreos | mavhk, it'll only be a matter of time. Intel does seem they're willing to push it through | 11:25 |
| psycho_oreos | Stskeeps, o.O ok | 11:25 |
| ieatlint | we'll see if intel does too... moblin didn't exactly get the backing it needed either | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | psycho_oreos: meego.com platform is ARMv7 and Atom, which isn't going away for the forseeable future | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: well, judging by the attitudes some of the intel people show, they're not exactly community builders.. | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | and by that i don't mean the community manager, but the coders | 11:26 |
| ieatlint | indeed | 11:26 |
| TiagoTiago_ | Does Maemo uses Adobe Flash (like for interface, or decoding the hands video or somthing) or is it only used in web browsers? | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | you have to meet these people in person to understand them a bit better instead of their email style | 11:26 |
| kerio | haha using flash for that is LOL | 11:26 |
| ieatlint | makes me wonder if the meego community will fracture | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | TiagoTiago_: no, we use sane codecs | 11:27 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ok | 11:27 |
| psycho_oreos | Stskeeps, ahh ok | 11:27 |
| TiagoTiago_ | so that means its safe to optify it? | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: i think it's going more towards integration at least in terms of ARM and X86, because we suffer a large deal of the same problems | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | cos the actual hardware differences make little sense underneath qt | 11:27 |
| ieatlint | Stskeeps: yeah... a lot of questions... it could turn out really well | 11:28 |
| ieatlint | i wish i could afford to go to dublin | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | ieatlint: my hope is that we have something really cool by 1.2.. | 11:28 |
| ieatlint | get a neutral/nokia spin on it all, heh | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | 1.1 is already cool but .. | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | not product ready | 11:28 |
| ieatlint | yeah, people seem very unsure of what is making 1.1 | 11:28 |
| TiagoTiago_ | why call it somthing above 0.* if it's not product ready? | 11:29 |
| ieatlint | have heard conflicting reports about qtmobility and qt 4.7 being there | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | qt4.7 and qtmobility is there | 11:29 |
| ieatlint | cool | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | 1.1 is cool from the pov it's a lean and mean qt platform | 11:29 |
| ieatlint | and libmeegotouch premieres with 1.1 too right? | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | libmeegotouch is already there | 11:29 |
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| Stskeeps | and that 1.1 is bloody easy to port to devices | 11:30 |
| ieatlint | huh, thought 1.0 lacked the handset/tablet ux | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | 1.0 did | 11:30 |
| psycho_oreos | broadcom on meego *shudders*, sure enough they recently decided to open up their sources on their latest wireless LAN chipsets but there's still not a great deal of support for the chipsets that are not covered by any of their native linux counterparts (namely most of the ones in wl) | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | it came in early 1.1 phases | 11:30 |
| ieatlint | ah, ok | 11:30 |
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| Stskeeps | a platform that's essentially "build a kernel, drop in root file system, put in your modules, add in your GLESv2/EGL libraries, boot Xorg", is really difficult to not like | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | in order to get a proof of concept | 11:32 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | wtf?! on a documentary on tv they say this guy that shot this girl that rejected him was deemed unfit for trail and now lives as a free man 0.0 | 11:33 |
| ieatlint | she should've known better | 11:33 |
| TiagoTiago_ | if a murderer is unfit for trail, he must also be unfit to be free | 11:34 |
| TiagoTiago_ | trial* | 11:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: I was thinking about how to answer such init script Q in a more technical manner | 12:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: as a general rule of thumb nothing in /usr must be used before drives are mounted (though I seem to know meamo is violating this) | 12:10 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: yeah, my vague thoughts | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | perl looks non-critical | 12:11 |
| ieatlint | best solution i could think of, was to make a bash wrapper script for perl itself, and log when it's run | 12:11 |
| ieatlint | then boot the device and see the log | 12:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep, I thought of same for all /usr/bin :-D | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply mount without noatime | 12:12 |
| TiagoTiago_ | hm | 12:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 12:13 |
| infobot | from memory, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet one, two | 12:13 |
| TiagoTiago_ | would it be safe to optify the whole /usr folder? | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, you also need to sanitize the bugs somebody introduced - means move some needed binaries from /usr/bin to /bin | 12:14 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i see | 12:15 |
| jpinxN900 | has anyone managed to actually replace maemo with "real" debian using the maemo drivers for the nokia hardware? | 12:15 |
| TiagoTiago_ | and no way to know which ones need that untill after trying having them not there? | 12:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | possibly also /usr/share/? | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | read all initscripts - or make a script read them :-P | 12:16 |
| TiagoTiago_ | talking about that, i lost the link to that tutorial for bash scripting someone here gave me, could you gimme it again? | 12:17 |
| TiagoTiago_ | please* | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompls | 12:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_toc.html#SEC_Contents | 12:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/info/shell/script.hints | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno what's the last one | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.cit.griffith.edu.au/~anthony/info/shell/ looks usefull | 12:22 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | thx | 12:25 |
| RST38h | Oh yeaaah: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/nokias-plug-and-touch-turns-your-hdtv-into-a-giant-n8-video/ | 12:26 |
| TiagoTiago_ | interesting | 12:28 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | "you don't have to physicly touch it, but it does help" that's what she said! | 12:33 |
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| RST38h | moo raster | 12:45 |
| TiagoTiago | ~moo | 12:45 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 12:45 | |
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| raster | RST38h: boo! | 12:51 |
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| kerio | µ! | 12:55 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a keyboard layout creator/editor for the N900 with GUI? | 12:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: not since I last suggested somebody is building one | 13:32 |
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| TiagoTiago | well, at least someone is working on it | 13:33 |
| TiagoTiago | any idea on the progress? | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | really? | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | who? | 13:33 |
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| TiagoTiago | hm, no one then? I guess i misread what you said | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, probably my wording was adequately fuzzy | 13:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | We discussed it here some months ago, and somebody might have started on it, or not | 13:35 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, i see | 13:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually I thought somebody did | 13:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | can't recall details | 13:36 |
| MNZ | 'ello folks | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo MNZ | 13:37 |
| TiagoTiago | howdy | 13:37 |
| MNZ | howsit going with y'all | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | uh, reading a bit of shell script poetry for leisure :-) | 13:39 |
| TiagoTiago | Microsoft's Keyboard Layout Creator would be a great inspiration IMO, it does have some lame flaws here and there, but the general idea and the way you set the keys are a worthy inspiration | 13:39 |
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| MNZ | anything major happening? nokia gone bankrupt, someone run maemo on the iphone, pigs flew, or anything? | 13:40 |
| TiagoTiago | not that i know of, but that doesn't mean much | 13:40 |
| lcuk | mmmm flying pre-bacon | 13:40 |
| TiagoTiago | just ignite the atmosphere and you're served :P | 13:41 |
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| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, read any perl poetry? | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yuck | 13:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: LOL | 13:43 |
| MNZ | heh, you're missing out then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Perl | 13:45 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | interesting | 13:49 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i wonder what other languages allow for such trcikery | 13:49 |
| MNZ | and don't forget JAPH, Just Another Perl Hacker. | 13:50 |
| MNZ | Tiny little scripts that look totally innocent but manage to somehow print out 'just another perl hacker' | 13:50 |
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| MNZ | http://www.cpan.org/misc/japh <--- this stuff is AMAZING. Not all JAPHs though | 13:55 |
| TiagoTiago_ | talk about free time | 13:58 |
| MNZ | heh | 13:58 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago_, one does not find tiem to make perl scripts, its the result of sleeping on the keyboard mostly | 13:59 |
| lcuk | someone just got it to compile | 13:59 |
| MNZ | hey don't diss on perl! This is beauty at its finest | 13:59 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i once fought sleep programming for so long that the characters on screen actually became a bunch of ants and started running around | 14:00 |
| raster | lcuk: i thought perl scripts are the results of peoples pet cats walking across their kbds while editors are open. | 14:00 |
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| lcuk | raster, that implies forethought to open a code editor | 14:00 |
| MNZ | :| you guys have no idea what you can do with one line of perl | 14:00 |
| MNZ | one line of well thought of perl, that is | 14:01 |
| raster | lcuk: nah - accidentally opened editors | 14:01 |
| raster | people left theirt machines and did something useful | 14:01 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i have a good idea what can be acomplished, but no idea on how to | 14:01 |
| raster | cats walked across kbd and invented perl scripts | 14:01 |
| raster | :) | 14:01 |
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| raster | MNZ: u have no idea what you can do with a cat :) | 14:01 |
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| MNZ | raster, haha well if cats can write perl then I want one :P | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | raster: :-))) | 14:02 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer51: doc! | 14:02 |
| lcuk | hey debianites \o have a question: supposing I download (via git or other) a source package and cd into its folder, is there a dpkg-* command for getting the builddeps, this of course assumes the source was not in the repository already. | 14:02 |
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| lcuk | ^ that is not possible according to debian folks | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | perl makes my eyes bleed | 14:03 |
| psycho_oreos | I doubt it, I think dpkg-* requires sources with debian patches, namely a directory under the source tree to have debian/* | 14:03 |
| raster | lcuk: u mean just magically create a deb from ANY source? | 14:03 |
| MNZ | lcuk, how about grep Depends debian/control | 14:03 |
| MNZ | oh | 14:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | looking at those examples of perl code, it seems to me the language itself doesn't enforce obfuscated code, but it is flexible enough to allow twisted levels of it | 14:04 |
| lcuk | raster, i want to run "make" on the package I just git clone'd | 14:04 |
| MNZ | you mean no debian/ ? | 14:04 |
| lcuk | MNZ, sure | 14:04 |
| MNZ | TiagoTiago_, exactly. Except all the hackers with their obfuscation are giving it a bad rep :( | 14:04 |
| raster | lcuk: dpkg has nothing to do with you being able to run make | 14:05 |
| lcuk | i have put a note in the readme about the builddeps | 14:05 |
| raster | its your job to provide builddeps | 14:05 |
| lcuk | raster, make doesnt think about it, but for packages with debian/ folder it should work | 14:05 |
| raster | not upstream src | 14:05 |
| MNZ | lcuk, just ./configure the package and see :P | 14:05 |
| raster | they have no clue what distro u run | 14:05 |
| raster | what version | 14:05 |
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| lcuk | MNZ, no autotools | 14:05 |
| raster | and what packages have those deps | 14:05 |
| TiagoTiago_ | perhaps someone should relelase a perl variant that will not copile code that isn't obfuscated | 14:05 |
| raster | and even how they can get installed | 14:05 |
| raster | no upstream can sanely handle that | 14:05 |
| lcuk | raster, the debian/ folder does contain everything but the Depends: line isnt formatted for use with apt :P | 14:06 |
| raster | oh it has a debian dir? | 14:06 |
| lcuk | most do | 14:07 |
| raster | with all the right debian packahing info for that src? | 14:07 |
| lcuk | yes | 14:07 |
| MNZ | lcuk, can you re-explain the situation? | 14:07 |
| raster | dpng-buildpackage -r fakeroot | 14:07 |
| lcuk | cant build package | 14:07 |
| raster | (in the dir that has debian/) | 14:07 |
| lcuk | because the build deps arent yet installed | 14:07 |
| raster | then install them | 14:07 |
| lcuk | what are they? | 14:07 |
| raster | the debina pkg info should have all of that | 14:07 |
| MNZ | just grep for 'Depends'. what's wrong with that?? | 14:08 |
| lcuk | MNZ, sure but it takes mucking around for each one | 14:08 |
| raster | lcuk: the build fails with src (makefiles or configure) complaining of missing deps or headers etc?? | 14:09 |
| MNZ | no, quick regexp for clean up and just shoot through 'xargs apt-get install' I suppose. There WAS a command for this... hold on | 14:09 |
| lcuk | MNZ, sure its a quick regexp | 14:09 |
| lcuk | but every developer who gets a package from git may have to do the same thing | 14:10 |
| raster | or there is a Build-Depends: | 14:10 |
| MNZ | lcuk, this package is not in the repos ? | 14:10 |
| lcuk | the dpkg-whatthefuckarethebuilddeps would be simpler | 14:10 |
| raster | and u want those build deps installed for u in 1 simple command? | 14:10 |
| lcuk | raster, installed or listed yes | 14:10 |
| raster | well if u can list - u can install | 14:12 |
| lcuk | sure | 14:12 |
| raster | as such the build-depends line isnt just a pckg list | 14:12 |
| raster | but also specific version depsn etc. too | 14:12 |
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| lcuk | basically the same operation that apt-get builddep [package] has | 14:13 |
| lcuk | but for source folders | 14:13 |
| raster | hmm | 14:14 |
| raster | well normally u'd want apt-get build-dep | 14:15 |
| lcuk | yes - but in the case of maemo, downloading a debian package source and trying to port/bring it to maemo | 14:15 |
| lcuk | the debian package usually expects the whole debian repositories are available | 14:16 |
| lcuk | this just isnt the case and usually need to build multiple things | 14:16 |
| raster | yeah | 14:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | another interesting problem: how to check initscripts for not using 'nonexistent' commands (like /usr/sbin/foo which due to usr not mounted would fail on boot)? thought along some ;;which 'strings init.d';; - of course a bit more sophisticated, Or mount rootfs (which has /usr now) without noatime. Or sed a wrappermscript to log invocations for every bin in /usr/(s)bin. Are there better/existing ideas/tools? | 14:18 |
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| raster | lcuk: no command i know of to do that | 14:22 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer51, grep for "/usr" | 14:22 |
| raster | other than writing a script of your own | 14:22 |
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| lcuk | raster, indeed, hence me asking its just something I have noticed with many packages I have gotten | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: yeah, not that you mention it, it's highly questionable why /usr/* should be in path (if any at all) of initscripts | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/not/now/ | 14:24 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: lcuk: yeah, now that you mention it, it's highly questionable why /usr/* should be in path (if any at all) of initscripts | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks fellas | 14:24 |
| MNZ | lcuk, some intelligent grepping reveals that you can list build-deps... but only after building XD so if you have a binary or you can already do a dpkg-buildpackage then you can list stuff | 14:25 |
| MNZ | You can check for yourself: | 14:26 |
| MNZ | for i in `find /usr/share/man -iname "dpkg*"| xargs`; do echo $i; zcat $i | nroff| grep -i --color depend; done | 14:26 |
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| lcuk | MNZ, great little chicken and egg one isnt it :) | 14:26 |
| MNZ | lcuk, yeah it's pretty weird | 14:26 |
| TiagoTiago_ | why the regular clock isn't set the same way the clock is set when you insert a new SIM? | 14:26 |
| lcuk | i just added an apt-get line in the README notes | 14:26 |
| lcuk | so getting from git and trying to build is as simple as possible | 14:27 |
| lcuk | i wonder how other systems deal with similar | 14:27 |
| lcuk | ie, is there an rpm equiv | 14:27 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago_, internal battery for clock foobar? | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then... we not only got init.d/*, we also got event.d (upstart), and especially buggering: there are scripts that run *after* >>mount /dev/mmcfoo /usr<< which of course may use all of the usr/(s)bin cmds. How to tell which are the scripts/events that lack a mounted /usr ? | 14:29 |
| TiagoTiago_ | no, i mean, when you insert a new sim, you get a clock with arms for hours and minutes, and you drag each arm to set the time like on a physical clock, but then during regular use, you just scroll thru a list of numbers | 14:30 |
| lcuk | ahhh | 14:30 |
| lcuk | one uses gtk itself the other doesnt | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: grep usr /etc/init.d/* just gives too much to get me anywhere | 14:31 |
| lcuk | ok | 14:31 |
| RST38h | moo lcuk | 14:31 |
| TiagoTiago_ | that type of inconsistency reinforces the impression Nokia didn't put enough effort in the N900 :/ | 14:31 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago_, hmm | 14:32 |
| lcuk | i, for one, have seen incredible effort put in by nokia on the n900 | 14:32 |
| lcuk | and everyone else besides | 14:32 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago_, tell you what | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: yep, the initial settings app is MUCH better than that usual incredible scroll-lists crap for date and time | 14:33 |
| lcuk | you implement that funky clock as a gtk widget | 14:33 |
| lcuk | push it towards maemo extras | 14:33 |
| lcuk | get it working perfectly | 14:33 |
| TiagoTiago_ | there is lots of great things, but also lots of stuff that seems like they didn't finish what they started and jsut released it | 14:33 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if that date/time scroll lists already got a number in crashanddie's twentifive | 14:36 | |
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| Papayawhip | hi guys, maybe a stupid question, but i couldn't find the ubuntu-desktop-development-vmware-image. only the ubuntu server edition, which isn't preconfigured. do u know where i can find it? | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err, hold it. the calendar settings in that osso-startup-settings thingy actually is even worse than standard one. I wonder if zenity is fixable and usable as a template for dates setting | 14:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | why doesn't the welcome setup screen not use the hildon scrollable lists | 14:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Scrollable lists are stupid | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | At least for 0-59 | 14:41 |
| RST38h | I am sure some UX designer thought them "cool" | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | They are cool. | 14:41 |
| BugBlauw | that welcome screen list sucks big time | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Cool != good | 14:41 |
| RST38h | And no actual testing has been done to insure their usability =) | 14:42 |
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| merlin1991 | Papayawhip, the desktop image is MIA atm | 14:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I love the 'we wrote the spec, it's perfect, we don't need actual reports of usability' approach. | 14:43 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 14:43 | |
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| Papayawhip | merlin1991: MIA? ^^ | 14:43 |
| Papayawhip | dont know this alias^^ | 14:43 |
| merlin1991 | missing in action :D | 14:44 |
| Papayawhip | ah :D | 14:44 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: That is not the funniest thing | 14:44 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: The funniest thing was when Maemo5 Style Guide explicitely told developers to remove features to make their UI simpler :) | 14:44 |
| TiagoTiago_ | that doesn't sound right | 14:45 |
| alterego | TiagoTiago_: have you ever used Maemo4? | 14:45 |
| alterego | Diablo on N8x0? | 14:45 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i can't say i have | 14:45 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ditto | 14:45 |
| alterego | Well, if you had, you'd know that that doesn't sound too far from the truth ;) | 14:45 |
| alterego | Difference between Maemo 4 and Maemo 5, +1 Pretty Graphics, -100 features :) | 14:46 |
| TiagoTiago_ | some features could actually make thigns simpler, so it isn't removing features, there gotta be a better algorithm for achiving useful simplicity | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Idiot mode. | 14:47 |
| * MohammadAG pokes alterego | 14:47 | |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 14:47 |
| alterego | Insight :) | 14:47 |
| alterego | Hello MohammadAG | 14:47 |
| mkpaa | (I already asked thsi early in the morning, but now that someone is awake) is there some straight forward way to boot n810 from external memory card and/or is there a good howto somewhere? | 14:47 |
| MNZ | lcuk, slightly change the grepping patter and came up with: dpkg-checkbuilddeps debian/control | 14:48 |
| MNZ | lcuk, that command is in the package dpkg-dev: /usr/bin/dpkg-checkbuilddeps | 14:48 |
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| ShadowJK | I think there's a clone to sd howto on wiki.maemo.org somewhere.. | 14:49 |
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| lcuk | oooh MNZ cool | 14:49 |
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| mkpaa | shadow, do you refer to this http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card ? | 14:51 |
| ShadowJK | probably, i've never done it myself | 14:53 |
| TiagoTiago_ | have you guys seen that sawpollube thing on TMO? | 14:54 |
| TiagoTiago_ | s/sqpollube/swappolube | 14:55 |
| TiagoTiago_ | erm, why it doesn't work with me? | 14:55 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ah, doubletypoe :( | 14:55 |
| MNZ | syntax error | 14:55 |
| MNZ | s/syntax/syntax/ | 14:55 |
| MNZ | or infobot is asleep | 14:55 |
| MNZ | ~botsnack | 14:55 |
| infobot | thanks, MNZ | 14:55 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | heh | 14:56 |
| TiagoTiago_ | anyway, have you guys seen it? | 14:56 |
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| TermanaDesire | alterego: what features is maemo 5 missing compared to Diablo. I've used both and haven't really noticed anything missing. | 14:57 |
| mkpaa | so flashing initfs is only way to boot from external card? | 14:57 |
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| alterego | TermanaDesire: filemanager is much limited | 14:58 |
| alterego | TermanaDesire: basically just a load of config options and things were removed. | 14:58 |
| TiagoTiago_ | the other day i went out, it was a very sunny day, the screen of my N900, at full bright, looked darker than indoors, disapointing :( | 14:59 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | why is it so hard to have a LCD screen that takes advantage of external lighting? | 15:06 |
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| pexi | TiagoTiago_, i have been wondering that too becase there are some projects where ppl have build video projector from a laptop screen panel and old school projectors | 15:11 |
| pexi | and it looks fine | 15:11 |
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| RST38h | TiagoTiago: Have you considering googling for the answer why? :) | 15:16 |
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| yabbapappa | why oh why I just can't use .hide() to hide tabs in qt | 15:23 |
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| MohammadAG | X-Fade, ping | 15:31 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | is it ok to have a file named the same as a folder? (in the same fodler obviously) | 15:35 |
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| MNZ | TiagoTiago_, no | 15:35 |
| TiagoTiago_ | then i'm stumped | 15:36 |
| TiagoTiago_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37198 | 15:36 |
| TiagoTiago_ | what do i need to do in the step where it says i should have a file with the "echo nameserver..." named /etc/ppp/ip-up.d ? | 15:38 |
| MNZ | that's not the file's name | 15:38 |
| MNZ | just create a file in that dir | 15:38 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | hm, ok | 15:39 |
| MNZ | dirs that end in .d usually have all their files parsed as config files by whatever prog | 15:39 |
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| MohammadAG | why can't the auotubilder access repository.maemo.org :( | 15:39 |
| MohammadAG | W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release.gpg Could not connect to repository.maemo.org:80 (92.123.155.66). - connect (111: Connection refused) | 15:40 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | crap, it seesm there are a bunch of correctiong tot he instructions but isnrtead of editing the original post they comment about it bellow int he thread | 15:41 |
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| MohammadAG | nice someone broke the builder | 15:42 |
| MohammadAG | it used to be able to access it a week or two ago, now it doesn't | 15:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: it's dead, Jim | 15:55 |
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| Carneque | Is it possible to identify that the device connecting to a certain webpage is the N900? | 15:59 |
| Carneque | Through javascript maybe? | 15:59 |
| alterego | The user-agent HTTP header | 16:00 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, and so will somebody else if they don't show up today :P | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | are there any garage admins other than X-Fade? | 16:01 |
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| * noobmonk3y waves | 16:02 | |
| Carneque | alterego, the accept is specified on the server level? | 16:03 |
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| Carneque | or within the page? | 16:05 |
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| Carneque | nm, I got it | 16:06 |
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| Carneque | If anyone already has this javascript code available let me know... to request the headers and identify the phone as N900 | 16:11 |
| Carneque | thanks | 16:11 |
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| MNZ | Carneque, it's in navigator.userAgent IIRC | 16:15 |
| MNZ | alert(navigator.userAgent) and see | 16:15 |
| MNZ | not sure how cross-browser that is though | 16:16 |
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| RST38h | "Security personnel may find the termination of a subject that is not strictly alive problematic, however field tests have shown that sufficient gross physical trauma will render a subject non-animate." | 16:20 |
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| GAN800 | How does anybody call an iPhone usable. . . . | 16:22 |
| RST38h | Depends on the intended use, I guess | 16:22 |
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| GAN800 | Whatever it is, it's a good thing I'm only stuck with this thing until Monday | 16:24 |
| * luke-jr hopes the same goes for him too | 16:25 | |
| anunakin | Hi All! | 16:25 |
| luke-jr | Carneque: N900 isn't a phone. You can run any browser on it. Unlikely there's any simple way to ID it as a device. | 16:25 |
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| anunakin | I need to know how to connect n900 to internet using 3G on another cellphone? | 16:26 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 16:26 |
| ShadowJK | i guess easiest is to run joikuspot or equivalent on the other cellphone | 16:26 |
| anunakin | but it is for use N900 like a hotspot.. | 16:27 |
| anunakin | I want use another cell with N900, like on N810 ... | 16:28 |
| luke-jr | [06:46:25] <alterego> Difference between Maemo 4 and Maemo 5, +1 Pretty Graphics, -100 features :) | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN800: 800 :-D | 16:28 |
| GAN800 | Piece of shit | 16:29 |
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| MohammadAG | LOL | 16:29 |
| luke-jr | ... | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | 810>800 | 16:29 |
| ieatlint | Carneque: the user agent can give you a decent clue to the phone | 16:30 |
| ieatlint | on the default fennec browser, it says "maemo" and "n900" in the user agent | 16:30 |
| ieatlint | on opera, it says "maemo" in the user agent | 16:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anunakin: seems pretty few n900 users considered this a useful scenario, so there's probably only hints from n8x0 times how to tether external GSM modem to a maemo device | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | on N810 I used BT PAN | 16:33 |
| anunakin | I looking on bt pan too | 16:33 |
| anunakin | I just bought my N900, and have on N810... | 16:33 |
| noobmonk3y | anyone know a good place to see examples of pyqt QtMultimediaKit ? | 16:33 |
| ShadowJK | anunakin, no I did not suggest you run joikuspot on N900. I suggested you run joikuspot on the other phone, or equivalent software | 16:33 |
| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, no, make your own :P | 16:34 |
| * noobmonk3y grumbles | 16:34 | |
| MohammadAG | there are some examples in the repo, but they're C++ afaik | 16:34 |
| noobmonk3y | poo | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: modulo there's usually no such thing for other phones | 16:34 |
| anunakin | I have two sim cards, one have a 3G internet only plan, and another sim has a commom plan | 16:34 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, joikuspot even works on my ancient E70 :) | 16:34 |
| anunakin | internet only plan is very cheap | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ooh | 16:34 |
| dneary | w00t_, Ping? | 16:35 |
| dneary | w00t_, Did you get my email? | 16:35 |
| anunakin | and with ulimited traffic | 16:35 |
| anunakin | unlimited | 16:35 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, probably the only reason joikuspot for n900 exists is all the people coming from symbian whined at joiku software to port it to n900... | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I see | 16:36 |
| dneary | infobot, seen w00t_ | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | never been much interested in joghurt sport | 16:36 |
| infobot | w00t_ is currently on #maemo #meego, last said: 'moin thiago_home btw :)'. | 16:36 |
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| dneary | infobot, Thanks. How long ago did he say that? | 16:36 |
| infobot | dneary: de nada | 16:36 |
| dneary | If I didn't know better, I'd say infobot was a real person | 16:37 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizer: what's yoghurt sport? | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 16:37 |
| infobot | thanks, DocScrutinizer | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | ~botsmack | 16:38 |
| infobot | OWW! | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary: errr joku spot | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG | JoikuSpot sucks for including an omap1 only module | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | and being closed source etc.. | 16:39 |
| Carneque | thanks guys for the help on that... just saw your comments | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | and doing lots of shit really | 16:39 |
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| MohammadAG | it should've stayed on symbian | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | it works like shit on maemo | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: he's on travel to london | 16:39 |
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| MohammadAG | voting's kinda tough :P | 16:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh MohammadAG, let's sell a package containing a reduced set of coreutils :-D | 16:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course not based on the GPL ones | 16:41 |
| anunakin | I compiled x48 emulator to N900 | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's call it yoghurt core | 16:41 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, is $10 good enough? | 16:41 |
| anunakin | Works very well | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: fine with me | 16:41 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders selling the luxury version of *# :-P | 16:44 | |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what does it do? | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | comes with a 5 pages pdf about SSC, plus maybe some queenbeecon config files to do particular SSC the 'convenience way' | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | or, even better, some vcards to add virtual contacts holding SSC, to addrbook | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | surname: phonecontrol; firstname:disable_all_redirections; number:##002# | 16:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the longer I think about it, the less of a pun it feels like. Maybe I really should shoot such a thing into OVI | 16:52 |
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| ieatlint | well, i just learnt something... "cervical" can refer to one's neck | 16:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, is this related? :-D | 16:55 |
| ieatlint | i'm just going to say yes | 16:56 |
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| * DocScrutinizer is concerned about his cervical integrity | 16:56 | |
| ieatlint | yeah, i've got some cervical pain myself | 16:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I hope ovi doesn't break your neck usually | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise fail to see the link | 16:58 |
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| ieatlint | what's the cost to publish with ovi? i seem to recall seeing an annual 50EUR at some point | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds affordable | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Ovi will take your sanity away | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way, not possible here :oP | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Doc: 30% of sales *and* EUR50/year is not affordable | 16:59 |
| ieatlint | there was also some extra fee for signing the application, but not sure if that applies to the n900 | 17:00 |
| RST38h | More like adding insult to the injury (generic CC processor will take 10-15%) | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's gross | 17:00 |
| ieatlint | RST38h: 30% for standard sales, they keep 40-50% for sales that aren't simple credit card transactions | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeew | 17:00 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: ah, even "better" | 17:00 |
| RST38h | and for that you are getting what? | 17:00 |
| ieatlint | google is $25 one time fee... apple is $100, but i don't know if that's one-time or per year | 17:01 |
| RST38h | onetime | 17:01 |
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| Termana | per year | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | now I see why OVI is such an incredible success | 17:01 |
| Termana | Unless they changed it | 17:01 |
| RST38h | Yea, it is a perfect place | 17:01 |
| ieatlint | the new intel store that is going to be tied into ovi is $100/year... not sure if ovi will adopt that as well | 17:01 |
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| RST38h | The new Intel store will become even bigger success | 17:02 |
| Termana | RST38h, left them at home did you? | 17:02 |
| RST38h | left whom? | 17:03 |
| Termana | RST38h, your sarcasm tags | 17:03 |
| Termana | :P | 17:03 |
| RST38h | oh those...I just never closed the opening one. | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, I'll simply change the hw lockcode on +#-luxury installation (of course with prior asking user to click the [only possible] OK button), then ship the new hw lock when payment comes in :-P | 17:03 |
| RST38h | Doc <-- talking gibberish | 17:04 |
| ieatlint | no, it's an awesome plan | 17:04 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, you do that for the paid version, and make them pay for the paid version by saying you'll send them their new lockcode | 17:05 |
| Termana | for the free version* | 17:05 |
| Termana | err damn it | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | "you are installing *#-luxury. This sw costs 10$. [ok] [agree]" -> change device lock code | 17:05 |
| Termana | you do it for the free version, to force them to buy the paid version | 17:05 |
| ieatlint | yeah, that's what he was saying :P | 17:05 |
| RST38h | Using punctuation marks in application names should be punishable by something. | 17:06 |
| * RST38h have not yet figured out the right punishment | 17:07 | |
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| Termana | RST38h, punch-uation is the punishment | 17:07 |
| * RST38h was thinking in terms of hand-copying a few volumes of Encyclopedia Britannicaor something | 17:07 | |
| GAN800 | I keep trying to tap outside the dialogs | 17:07 |
| RST38h | ahhahah | 17:07 |
| RST38h | does this abomination even have an irc client? :) | 17:08 |
| GAN800 | Colloquy | 17:09 |
| GAN800 | $1.99 :/ | 17:10 |
| GAN800 | Copy paste makes it impossible to move the insert point | 17:10 |
| Termana | GAN800, you iPhone user, you! | 17:11 |
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| GAN800_ | For about 2 more days. :( | 17:11 |
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| Termana | GAN800_, are you having your N900 repaired or something? | 17:12 |
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| *** GAN800_ is now known as GAN800 | 17:12 | |
| * RST38h checked out Colloquy source code | 17:12 | |
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| RST38h | ObjectiveC. Funny stuff. | 17:12 |
| ieatlint | the way to fuck with him is to send him urls for really awesome stuff | 17:12 |
| ieatlint | RST38h: it's iphone.. yeah, objectivec | 17:13 |
| RST38h | Looks like C with a diarrhea | 17:13 |
| Termana | ieatlint, you mean flash content? | 17:13 |
| Termana | :P | 17:13 |
| ieatlint | Termana: nah, any link | 17:13 |
| ieatlint | it's not like he can just click on it and stay on irc :P | 17:13 |
| Termana | ieatlint, :P he can actually in iOS4 | 17:13 |
| ieatlint | go ahead, switch apps and ... oh ... right ... :P | 17:13 |
| RST38h | what about iphone multitasking? hasn't Jobs allowed it? | 17:14 |
| ieatlint | hehe, yeah, the handful of apps that have pre-approval for it | 17:14 |
| Termana | Colloquy takes advantage of Apple's concurrency apis | 17:14 |
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| Termana | See what I did there? | 17:14 |
| * Termana troll face | 17:14 | |
| Termana | concurrency vs multitasking | 17:14 |
| GAN800 | Termana: No September proto whose NAND or eMMC iscaput | 17:15 |
| GAN800 | So, I ordered a new one | 17:15 |
| Termana | GAN800, ouch. Well I guess that means you like it better than anything else on the market right now | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN800: you always should have a spare on your shelf | 17:16 |
| Termana | Hard to tell, when you slag it so much :P | 17:16 |
| GAN800 | Died 2 days before my lease was up. Gottalove that. | 17:16 |
| GAN800 | Yeah, my spare is on loan to a friend | 17:16 |
| TiagoTiago_ | Doc, don't forget to intercept the powerbutton, add the locking thing to the boot process, and shutting down SSH etc | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago_: nah, that's a package for the silly | 17:18 |
| RST38h | GAN: Just copied all the data and apps off my proto to a new N900 | 17:18 |
| RST38h | GAN: Going to pass the proto to the next Moscow-based guy in the queue | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | even changing lock code to anything different than default 12345 will cause the intended pay enforcement mechanins go fail | 17:19 |
| RST38h | BTW, data migration has been pretty uneventful | 17:19 |
| RST38h | Doc: I know it is a stupid question, but what does your application do? =) | 17:19 |
| ieatlint | it asks for $10 | 17:19 |
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| ieatlint | isn't that enough? | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo, exactly | 17:19 |
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| GAN800 | Seriously. Useless as a mobile computer | 17:20 |
| TiagoTiago_ | in my experience, migration is one of the aspects where Nokia excels | 17:20 |
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| RST38h | Well, Symbian migration is a pain | 17:20 |
| RST38h | But Maemo5 ended up being pretty straightforward | 17:20 |
| TiagoTiago_ | it was a breeze to migrate my stuff from my 3650 to my N73, and then from my N73 to my N900 | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: * DocScrutinizer ponders selling the luxury version of *# :-P --- <DocScrutinizer> comes with a 5 pages pdf about SSC, plus maybe some queenbeecon config files to do particular SSC the 'convenience way' | 17:21 |
| TiagoTiago_ | didn't even need a PC or cables | 17:21 |
| RST38h | GAN: iPhone is not a mobile computer. It is a religious artifact. | 17:21 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | RST38h: lol | 17:21 |
| SwedeMike | I'm always amazed how little vendors seem to care about making it easy to migrate from one of their phones to another of the same vendor. It's as hard/easy to go to another vendor as buying a new from from the same vendor as the old phone. | 17:21 |
| GAN800 | Although I like having remote software for everything from INSTEON to Roku or you coffee maker | 17:22 |
| RST38h | Doc: Coooooooooooooool | 17:22 |
| TiagoTiago_ | SwedeMike: Nokia hasn't disapointed me in that aspect so far | 17:22 |
| Termana | I didn't need to do any data migration with my Desire. I just signed in and it had everything waiting for me, email, contacts... :P | 17:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, isn't it? X-P | 17:22 |
| * RST38h reading through a long thread where iPhone users explain to the thread originator that he REALLY does not need to be able tocopy mp3 files to a device or play by folder | 17:23 | |
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| TiagoTiago_ | Termana: is that oen of those thigns where htye keep the data on a server where people hack into to get gossip about famous people? | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: even better than fart-app | 17:23 |
| RST38h | Because iTunes handles everything for him, including getting all the music, and if he has got an mp3 file, he has most likely pirated it anyway | 17:23 |
| RST38h | Whcih is BAD. | 17:23 |
| Termana | TiagoTiago_, personally I don't do anything that I don't care about people knowing - so whatever Tin Foil Hat Man :P | 17:24 |
| SwedeMike | like, why is there no way to sync the t9 dictionary between devices? | 17:24 |
| Termana | If someone wants to know about my lonely life they can go ahead. | 17:24 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ah, yeah, those details aren't included | 17:24 |
| TiagoTiago_ | if i decide to stop paying my carrier all my data is still with me | 17:25 |
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| Termana | TiagoTiago_, don't bash me too much, I own an N900 too :P | 17:25 |
| RST38h | It has never been your data to begin with! | 17:25 |
| TiagoTiago_ | heh | 17:25 |
| Termana | RST38h, lol | 17:25 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: play by folder? useless crap, see maemo mediaplayer | 17:25 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Yea, maemo mediaplayer is useless crap. | 17:25 |
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| GAN800 | 3rd party stuff will, though. | 17:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN800: ooh, somebody made a real app out of my simple idea to put up some shellscript for playlist generation? | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN800: or were you referring to 3rd party mediaplayers? | 17:28 |
| RST38h | Doc: There is an easier way ;) | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | which one? | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Doc: Search extras for "grilo". Install it. Go to the app menu in the mediaplayer. | 17:29 |
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| GAN800 | DocScrutinizer: Yes | 17:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer googling grilo | 17:30 | |
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| TiagoTiago_ | that's cricket in portuguese (at least brazilian portuguese) | 17:30 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | as in the bug, not the sport | 17:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: nice, alas useless as it doewsn't sort files in a folder - they are displayed and added like found in inodes | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or sorted by size or any other non-obvious and useless criteria | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 02 03 11 07 09 05 01... | 17:43 |
| RST38h | Doc: That I am not sure about. I would sort by name of course. | 17:44 |
| RST38h | Doc: If it does not, email the author | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah | 17:44 |
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| RST38h | javispedro moo | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | a pitty, such a nicely integrated usefull feature, and then that | 17:45 |
| *** TiagoTiago_ has left #maemo | 17:45 | |
| javispedro | moo | 17:45 |
| *** TiagoTiago_ has joined #maemo | 17:45 | |
| * javispedro curses | 17:46 | |
| javispedro | I say "gimme the source so I can reproduce it" and I get a half .c file that doesn't even compile, not to mention it doesn't link because it's missing 99% of the project | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lol | 17:47 |
| RST38h | javispedro: nice, what project? =) | 17:47 |
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| javispedro | it's all on tmo | 17:47 |
| *** jee has left #maemo | 17:47 | |
| *** jee has joined #maemo | 17:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what's tmo? :-P | 17:48 |
| Sampppa | talk.maemo.org | 17:48 |
| javispedro | _our_ tmo. | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~tmo | 17:48 |
| infobot | somebody said tmo was http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic | 17:48 |
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| javispedro | ~cookie | 17:48 |
| infobot | Hey javispedro, zip 48603 is Saginaw Saginaw MI | 17:48 |
| RST38h | hmm | 17:48 |
| jee | what doing£¿ | 17:49 |
| jee | talk£¿£¿£¿ | 17:49 |
| javispedro | broken charset warning | 17:49 |
| jee | (¨t_¨s)# | 17:49 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 17:50 | |
| RST38h | jee: you may want to turn that uniceode off. | 17:50 |
| jee | hello£¿£¿£¿ | 17:50 |
| TiagoTiago_ | jee>hello£¿£¿£¿ | 17:50 |
| TiagoTiago_ | was that intentional? | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | MTHELs powering up! | 17:51 |
| jee | nono | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 17:51 |
| * DocScrutinizer switching MTHELs to standby again | 17:52 | |
| jee | I'm using opera will not be used uniceode | 17:52 |
| TiagoTiago_ | what is a MTHEL? | 17:52 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 17:52 | |
| jee | Where are you from ah? | 17:53 |
| TiagoTiago_ | unicode usually is not a problem, though some implementations of it do lack accuracy | 17:53 |
| jee | ¡ð | 17:53 |
| TiagoTiago_ | I'm from Brazil | 17:53 |
| jee | ¨O£Ü) | 17:53 |
| jee | ©~©~©~¡ò¯¨R¯¡ò | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser - lrn2google | 17:53 |
| jee | ¨q¦ä¦ä¦ä¨r | 17:53 |
| jee | {/ @ @ /} | 17:53 |
| jee | ( (oo) ) | 17:53 |
| jee | ¦á¦á¦á | 17:53 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 17:54 | |
| javispedro | MTHEL fire! | 17:54 |
| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q jee!*@* | 17:54 | |
| kerio | \o/ | 17:54 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ah, i was thinking it was some sort of in joke | 17:54 |
| javispedro | well, at least the guy was right in that he was using Opera | 17:55 |
| javispedro | CTCP-VERSION: Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; zh-cn) Presto/2.6.30 Version/10.62 | 17:55 |
| javispedro | opera has an irc client now? | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 17:55 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 17:55 | |
| RST38h | Opera does IRC? | 17:55 |
| RST38h | Interesting | 17:55 |
| TiagoTiago_ | perhaps it was some web based irc client? | 17:55 |
| kerio | opera desktop does, i think | 17:55 |
| kerio | Starting with Opera 7.50, there is an integrated IRC (Internet Relay Chat) client. It has all basic IRC features, including DCC file transfer (send/receive files to/from users). | 17:56 |
| javispedro | and broken charset. | 17:56 |
| RST38h | OMG | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus sending ascii gfx BS | 17:56 |
| TiagoTiago_ | perhaps it was bad encodding setting | 17:56 |
| kerio | RST38h: can you say "feature creep"? | 17:56 |
| RST38h | no. | 17:57 |
| TiagoTiago_ | that could have been simply he pasting a multiline text | 17:57 |
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| RST38h | Could, or couldn't have, who cares now... | 17:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't you see the pig head? | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ascii gfx shit | 17:58 |
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| *** jee has joined #maemo | 17:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer | but obviously still with a borked charset | 17:59 |
| *** jee has left #maemo | 17:59 | |
| kerio | why do we need anything other than utf8, right now? | 18:00 |
| kerio | it's 2010, come on | 18:00 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | the ascii gfx may or may not have been Opera's fault | 18:00 |
| javispedro | kerio: I've just been in talks with someone who liked nedit (a bare xlib text editor) | 18:00 |
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| javispedro | guess what? | 18:00 |
| javispedro | nedit doesn't support utf-8 | 18:00 |
| javispedro | pfft. | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | rejoining doesn't remove +q | 18:00 |
| kerio | well then nedit is a crappy editor | 18:00 |
| javispedro | agreed. | 18:00 |
| RST38h | nedit is motif based and it is cool | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't give a shit, jee is free to /query me if he sorted his things | 18:00 |
| javispedro | RST38h: it's motif? O.o | 18:01 |
| Adeon | sounds pretty bad if an editor in this age doesn't support utf-8 | 18:01 |
| RST38h | but I like PICO better, nedit is too smart for me | 18:01 |
| kerio | Adeon: last release was 20041013 | 18:01 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what if opera doesn't have /query xP | 18:01 |
| RST38h | utf-8 is overrated | 18:01 |
| Adeon | haha | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: then I'd say screwit | 18:01 |
| RST38h | Face it, you should all have learned English by now =) | 18:02 |
| javispedro | heh | 18:02 |
| RST38h | (at least to a degree needed to operate computer UIs) | 18:02 |
| kerio | RST38h: half of unicode are ancient glyphs | 18:02 |
| RST38h | kerio: nice! and are you using them? | 18:02 |
| kerio | of course not | 18:03 |
| kerio | my brother does, though | 18:03 |
| kerio | (polytonic greek) | 18:03 |
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| RST38h | kerio: then why not leave unicode use to people who study ancient glyphs? =) | 18:03 |
| lcuk | even using ASCII half of the stuff in the console uses ancient glyphs and runes | 18:03 |
| kerio | RST38h: because µ | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | u | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ASCII most of the chars are normal | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ASCII is 7 bit | 18:04 |
| Adeon | how about my åäö that don't exist in plain ASCII! | 18:04 |
| RST38h | + optional 1 bit if you are using an extra alphabet | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ascii SI is nice though | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ASCII is 7 bit. | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | The high 128 chars are not ASCII | 18:05 |
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| RST38h | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_symbol | 18:05 |
| RST38h | The REAL reason for Unicode. | 18:05 |
| RST38h | (yes, you guessed right, it is PORN) | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | man ascii ftw | 18:07 |
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| RST38h | "Dear Toshiba, really love your laptop, but could you make the keys light up next time?" | 18:09 |
| javispedro | "No. You bought it already, so I already took your money, and I don't care what happens to the company after I leave it." | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, like on iPad vkbd, or what? | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | 'make keys light up' doesn't make sense to me | 18:11 |
| javispedro | I'm thinking mbp-like backlight | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 18:12 |
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| * DocScrutinizer drools over his ever shining keyring | 18:14 | |
| RST38h | Of course, whoever invented these "island" keyboards has to be made to type on them for eternity | 18:14 |
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| kerio | my keyboard works fine | 18:14 |
| kerio | :| | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | 'ever' == >25 years | 18:14 |
| kerio | "island" keyboard | 18:14 |
| javispedro | kill them with fire! | 18:15 |
| kerio | really, what's so bad about them | 18:15 |
| RST38h | Ok, "Firmware 1.3 on its way" thread dissolved into usual lemming chorus, unsubscribing | 18:15 |
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| RST38h | they are pain to type on. | 18:15 |
| * DocScrutinizer burps | 18:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 18:15 |
| infobot | methinks pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... | 18:15 |
| kerio | /dcc send DocScrutinizer education | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo pr1.3 | 18:16 |
| infobot | pr1.3 -- created by noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-178-53-101.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> at Tue May 25 07:13:59 2010 (116 days); last modified at Tue May 25 11:13:27 2010 by crashanddie_; it has been requested 12 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 35s ago. | 18:16 |
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| kerio | infobot: pr1.3 is a bannable subkect | 18:16 |
| infobot | ...but pr1.3 is already something else... | 18:16 |
| kerio | you lack in flexibility, infobot | 18:16 |
| RST38h | ~factinfo moo | 18:16 |
| infobot | moo -- created by mgeary <n=mgeary@166.70.44.49> at Fri Sep 28 15:18:07 2007 (1085 days); last modified at Fri Sep 28 15:19:22 2007 by fungus!n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com; it has been requested 114 times, last by TiagoTiago, 5h 31m 27s ago. | 18:16 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: is there any thread on tmo that doesn't dissolve into that? | 18:17 |
| RST38h | modified by fungus in 2007... mhm | 18:17 |
| RST38h | javispedro: dunno, all I have seen do, eventually | 18:17 |
| javispedro | previously you could prevent that by carefully adding some technobabble in between the thread | 18:17 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Maybe if we select a thread title that does not contain any keywords lemmings are sensitive to... | 18:18 |
| javispedro | but now someone reads between the technobabble and says "this must mean symbian for n900 is coming!!" and ruins the thread | 18:18 |
| RST38h | javispedro: or that chuck norris crap. | 18:18 |
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| lcuk | symbian is nice, and we always say OSS is about freedom of choice | 18:19 |
| javispedro | oh, I don't doubt that. | 18:19 |
| lcuk | I bet some people would like symbian on n900 | 18:19 |
| javispedro | I don't doubt that either. | 18:19 |
| javispedro | I doubt someone is working on it. | 18:19 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Admit you got that infection from RevdKathy? =) | 18:20 |
| lcuk | RST38h, not at all | 18:20 |
| lcuk | I have said for many years that Nokia devices would be great to come with an OS select on first boot :) | 18:20 |
| TiagoTiago_ | Once they open it enough, wouldn't it be easy to port it to the N900 given the hardware is somewhat shared? | 18:20 |
| javispedro | TiagoTiago_: as easy to port as Windows CE! | 18:21 |
| TiagoTiago_ | reallly? | 18:21 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago_, well theres little other things which would need to be solved I believe | 18:21 |
| TiagoTiago_ | like what? | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | especially to N900, with all the nice open hw drivers... err did I say that? | 18:21 |
| lcuk | n900 has no dedicated call/cancel buttons on the facia - i think most/all have them | 18:21 |
| javispedro | well | 18:21 |
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| javispedro | droid devices also "must have" certain buttons | 18:21 |
| lcuk | they would have to be soft buttons etc | 18:21 |
| TiagoTiago_ | there are plenty buttons to choose from | 18:21 |
| javispedro | see nitdroid | 18:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: "If grandmother had balls, she would be granfather" | 18:22 |
| javispedro | where they abuse the camera button / focus button | 18:22 |
| lcuk | yuck | 18:22 |
| RST38h | As things stand though, you have got what you have got, so the answer to all these Symbian/Maemo "proposals" is a no. | 18:22 |
| user_ | can we have windows CE on N900? | 18:22 |
| RST38h | user: Yes, VMWare has done that. | 18:22 |
| user_ | woooot! | 18:23 |
| user_ | VMware is on N900? | 18:23 |
| TiagoTiago_ | you could always add virtual buttons and reduce the reported screen resolution by 16 lines or somthing | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | user_: we don't need no silly VMware | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | we got bochs | 18:23 |
| user_ | hahaha | 18:23 |
| RST38h | user: google, right? | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html | 18:24 |
| user_ | can you link me to discussion for winCE on N900 please. | 18:24 |
| javispedro | pr1.3 thread: someone says "maemo.org repos have fremantle-1.3 section. fremantle-1.3 is coming!!!". someone reminds "fremantle-1.3 is a symlink to 1.2 and was created _by maemo.org_, not nokia". lemmings: <proceed to ignore warning and talk about 1.3 ending world hunger> | 18:24 |
| user_ | why am I user? | 18:24 |
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| user_ | omg | 18:24 |
| user_ | brb need to login | 18:24 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 18:24 |
| user_ | hhaha | 18:25 |
| TiagoTiago_ | just /nick and /nickserv identify | 18:25 |
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| Termana | Lord, please someone kill me before he comes back | 18:25 |
| RST38h | javispedro: just shows how desperate poor abandoned N900 users are =) | 18:25 |
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| lolloo | baaack | 18:26 |
| * Termana runs | 18:26 | |
| RST38h | Termana: there is /ignore command. I use it a lot. | 18:26 |
| lolloo | now thats better | 18:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer knew it, knew it really | 18:26 | |
| lolloo | hahaha | 18:26 |
| javispedro | RST38h: so desesperated someone opened yet another thread about "some ovi maps symbian update not coming to maemo" (like if it wasn't the 999th time) | 18:26 |
| RST38h | javispedro: well, new ones join tmo weekly, and they all want to have their say, if not ovi maps | 18:27 |
| lolloo | I dont get ovi maps! do one really need internet to check his location using gps! | 18:28 |
| javispedro | either that or 20 minutes waiting for gps lock | 18:28 |
| RST38h | Really useful irc command, that /ignore... | 18:29 |
| TiagoTiago_ | doesn't it also keep map tiles in the "cloud", and the route seraching is also aquired from cloudware? | 18:29 |
| javispedro | TiagoTiago_: neither. it just uses the cloud for POI searches. it routes offline and can keep local map tiles cached (even entire countries) | 18:30 |
| RST38h | still wants connection every 5 minutes or so | 18:30 |
| javispedro | yep. | 18:30 |
| lolloo | javispedro, your right | 18:31 |
| lolloo | it takes long | 18:31 |
| RST38h | 20-minute gps lock problem is solvable, albeit in a weird way | 18:31 |
| RST38h | The solution is to run Nokia's GPS diagnostics utility in the background | 18:31 |
| lolloo | wow | 18:31 |
| lolloo | how? | 18:31 |
| RST38h | And let that utility initialize GPS and obtain the position. Usually takes no more than 5 minutes when standing still. | 18:32 |
| javispedro | or warm it at home (or anywhere with wi-fi) | 18:32 |
| lolloo | RST38h, how do one do it? | 18:32 |
| RST38h | that too , but it is less flexible and it will screw up again after you lock/unlock the device | 18:32 |
| javispedro | hum | 18:32 |
| lolloo | mmm | 18:33 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i've read someone say GPSjinni also speds things up | 18:33 |
| javispedro | TiagoTiago_: Ovi has a bug where it will shutdown/power up the gps every often | 18:33 |
| TiagoTiago_ | s/peds/speeds | 18:33 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ah, that sucks | 18:33 |
| RST38h | Not a bug. A feature! | 18:33 |
| javispedro | so any application keeping gps on will "fix it" | 18:33 |
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| Termana | RST38h, of course, its for.... POWER SAVING THATS IT! | 18:34 |
| * lolloo is looking for GPSjinni. | 18:34 | |
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| TiagoTiago_ | i think "jinni" might be a brandname, there is a bunch of progs ending in "jinni" | 18:35 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 18:36 |
| javispedro | why are the lemmings NOT swarming the council thread? | 18:36 |
| *** crashanddie has quit IRC | 18:36 | |
| RST38h | because council is inconsequential | 18:36 |
| RST38h | isn't even considered the right keyword | 18:37 |
| TiagoTiago_ | or perhaps the word "council" sounds too smart for them? | 18:37 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | or perhaps just simply boring | 18:37 |
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| javispedro | clearly not, as they made a 300-page thread when someone thought the council's mission with "getting more features into my device". | 18:37 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 18:38 |
| javispedro | *confused. | 18:38 |
| lolloo | Imagine windows CE with multiboot on N900 | 18:38 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Oh, the keyword there was "features" | 18:38 |
| RST38h | javispedro: You are just confused by the accidental mention of "council" in that thread | 18:39 |
| * javispedro sighs | 18:39 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: But yes, the whole maemo.org looks like a hastily abandoned research project now | 18:39 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i tend to stay away fromt he council talk 'cause i hardly remember anyone's name much less who said what, and they probably have much deeper things to worry about than whatever i might say | 18:39 |
| lolloo | I hate Android | 18:40 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Windows wide open, paper all over the place, cages broken, hungry white mice running around in anticipation of eventual death of cold and starvation | 18:40 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | don't forget headcrabs | 18:41 |
| javispedro | RST38h: read http://blog.jeremiahfoster.com/?p=253 ? :) | 18:41 |
| RST38h | yea, that too, but there are fewer of them now | 18:41 |
| sobczyk | hi, is it possible to use usb networking for internet on n900? for now the UI does not reckognize it | 18:41 |
| TiagoTiago_ | they died of hunger fromt he lack of heads? | 18:41 |
| RST38h | Tiago: Oh, what wonderful headcrabs have we seen before your time! | 18:41 |
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| javispedro | sobczyk: you need libicd-network-usb if you want the proper but possibly a bit hard to install solution, or libicd-network-dummy which is iirc avail on extras and is the "easy half-assed solution". | 18:42 |
| RST38h | Tiago: they moved on, headcrabs only attach to individuals with a brain | 18:42 |
| javispedro | ah, seems libicd-network-usb is also on -devel now. | 18:42 |
| TiagoTiago_ | isn't there instructions for that int he wiki? | 18:42 |
| RST38h | javispedro:well, jeremiah just confirmed my assessment of the situation :) | 18:43 |
| javispedro | TiagoTiago_: yes, about the -dummy one. | 18:43 |
| javispedro | -usb has support for autoconnection, detection of cable removal, etc. etc. | 18:43 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I do wonder how things transform once the next device (Harmattan? or proper Meego?) is out | 18:43 |
| TiagoTiago_ | what about that pc-connectivity-manager thingy? | 18:43 |
| RST38h | javispedro: BTW, makes me wonder how people working on Harmattan feel, do they expect their work to migrate to Meego with minimal changes? | 18:44 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I have no idea. Tbh I predicted m.o would die earlier. Seems there's an influx of new users I didn't predict though | 18:44 |
| lolloo | Whats up with Meego? | 18:44 |
| TiagoTiago_ | the change of name from Maemo really fucked things up, there is like 4 devices in that site, and now they changed the name and it's a matter of "us VS them" :/ | 18:45 |
| javispedro | RST38h: ah, about Harmattan. | 18:45 |
| lolloo | so many hype about it, why? | 18:45 |
| javispedro | RST38h: since Meego is not exactly any unified kind of project (other than the common Qt baseline API) | 18:45 |
| javispedro | RST38h: "harmattan" will be Meego Handset and that's about it | 18:45 |
| RST38h | javispedro: on top of debian base? | 18:45 |
| javispedro | RST38h: guess not. there's not much work done on the "debian base" either. | 18:46 |
| javispedro | possibly because someone knows they're going to drop it. | 18:46 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I remember Nokians saying that Harmattan will still be Maemo, just called Meego for marketing purposes | 18:46 |
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| Termana | RST38h, that's the rough idea | 18:47 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Which makes me wonder what the core of the Harmattangoingto be | 18:47 |
| Termana | RST38h, a hacked up Debian, like Maemo 5 | 18:47 |
| Termana | debs etc. | 18:47 |
| javispedro | RST38h: afaik: harmattan = maemo + "meegotouch". meego handset = meego "core" + "meegotouch". | 18:47 |
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| javispedro | so yes they will kill the "distro" parts of maemo but keep the GUI. | 18:48 |
| RST38h | javispedro: meegotouch is a library layer | 18:48 |
| kerio | can you guys tell me why we're using busybox again? | 18:48 |
| kerio | instead of, you know, true coreutils | 18:48 |
| TiagoTiago_ | space? | 18:48 |
| Termana | kerio, in MeeGo or MeeGo/Harmattan? | 18:48 |
| kerio | in maemo | 18:48 |
| kerio | i hope they didn't keep it on meego | 18:48 |
| RST38h | javispedro: so, the question is wjether harmattan and meego will share the apps layer | 18:48 |
| Termana | kerio, MeeGo has coreutils | 18:48 |
| kerio | yay | 18:48 |
| sobczyk | if I connect n900 as mass storage, the network still works? | 18:48 |
| Termana | kerio, Harmattan will use busybox probably though | 18:49 |
| kerio | what the fuck | 18:49 |
| javispedro | RST38h: you know the official answer: "Use Qt, Luke." | 18:49 |
| RST38h | javispedro: which does not answer the question of course :) | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | suppose I have a package | 18:49 |
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| Termana | kerio, again, as we are currently discussing, Harmattan is basically Maemo 6 renamed. | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | and I'm splitting it into two, one for the UI, and one for the modules | 18:49 |
| RST38h | javispedro: especially considering that there is 1) generic qt 2) meegotouch and 3) symbian qt ui | 18:49 |
| Termana | The core is still the same, the UI is changed | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | then I make the UI depend on the modules | 18:49 |
| javispedro | RST38h: the official answer is: "you do not need to use meegotouch" | 18:49 |
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| MohammadAG | will dpkg complain that it's trying to overwrite when I upgrade both? | 18:50 |
| Termana | kerio, therefore, busybox is still likely to be used in Harmattan | 18:50 |
| javispedro | I have to see how much "native" you can get without resorting to meegotouch. | 18:50 |
| kerio | then harmattan will suck balls | 18:50 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Really? Is it because it is useless or because it does not currently work on Maemo5? =) | 18:50 |
| kerio | javispedro: the point is that you should use qt mobility | 18:50 |
| kerio | and it will automagically work (yeah, right) with every mobile device that uses qt | 18:50 |
| javispedro | kerio: as I once said, midlets reinvented. | 18:50 |
| lolloo | =) | 18:51 |
| kerio | then again, i don't really know what we're talking about | 18:51 |
| kerio | so we might as well talk about bacon | 18:51 |
| javispedro | :) | 18:51 |
| lolloo | :) | 18:51 |
| * RST38h even ported EMULib to meegotouch before finding out that there are no meegotouch libs for Maemo5 | 18:51 | |
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| TiagoTiago_ | port meegotouch to Maemo5? | 18:51 |
| javispedro | it's already there. | 18:51 |
| javispedro | of course, it looks hardly native. | 18:52 |
| lolloo | is it? where? | 18:52 |
| RST38h | it has been ported but there is no usable package in the repos | 18:52 |
| RST38h | some linkage conflicts, I have heard | 18:52 |
| lolloo | wow | 18:52 |
| lolloo | I would like to check it out | 18:52 |
| javispedro | I have at least run widgetsgallery on fremantle from the repos | 18:52 |
| lolloo | anyone? | 18:52 |
| javispedro | so it worked "once upon a time" :) | 18:53 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 18:53 |
| RST38h | yea, it works | 18:53 |
| RST38h | the demo, I mean ;) | 18:53 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i want somthing that makes a video game "you've won" TADAH! sound when the battery is full | 18:54 |
| Termana | TiagoTiago_, a video game will stop the battery becoming full | 18:54 |
| Termana | no TADAH for you | 18:54 |
| RST38h | ok, time to go hunt down some dinner | 18:54 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 18:54 |
| MNZ | Termana, he wants a ' | 18:55 |
| javispedro | "Review on OVERCLOCKED n900 AND RISKS of oc " | 18:55 |
| MNZ | 'video game you've won tadah'sonud | 18:55 |
| kerio | RST38h: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dailydish/2009/05/bak47-the-gun-that-will-revolt-and-defeat-terrorists.html | 18:55 |
| MNZ | not a video game | 18:55 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 18:55 |
| lolloo | Hahaha | 18:55 |
| Termana | lol | 18:55 |
| Termana | TiagoTiago_, learn to use commas :P | 18:56 |
| TiagoTiago_ | where would the commas go in that sentence? | 18:56 |
| Termana | nevermind :P | 18:57 |
| Termana | It's just how i read it :P | 18:57 |
| lolloo | You'll definitely see the N900 as a reference device for the 1.1 release and most likely the 1.2 release. 1.3 is anybody's guess at this stage, since its not planned for/on the roadmap. | 18:57 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 18:58 |
| lolloo | meego | 18:58 |
| MNZ | I want something that makes a video game's "you've won!" sound effect. <-- not a comma but does the job of diluting the vagueness | 18:58 |
| lolloo | http://wiki.meego.com/images/Nexus3.jpg | 18:58 |
| MNZ | too much free time.... must do something productive.... | 18:58 |
| Termana | lolcat, please do not copy and paste what I say | 18:59 |
| Termana | damn it | 18:59 |
| Termana | lolloo, please do not copy and paste what I say | 18:59 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 18:59 |
| javispedro | Termana: half the channel is /ignoring him | 18:59 |
| lolloo | sorry is it offending? | 19:00 |
| Termana | javispedro, rightfully so | 19:00 |
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| * MNZ preps a mint tea. | 19:01 | |
| TiagoTiago_ | i have not seen a reason for such extreme measures so far | 19:02 |
| sobczyk | anyone remembers the name of project for n900 to improve camera image quality by using accelerometer? | 19:02 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | i remember the fcam peeps tried using an experimental Nokia bluetooth gyroscope | 19:03 |
| lolloo | nokia camera is slow when taking pictures | 19:03 |
| lolloo | how do one solve that issue? | 19:03 |
| TiagoTiago_ | somthing about liquid helium i think | 19:04 |
| lcuk | tracy and I managed to get great shots of a fire breathing dragon with out n900s | 19:04 |
| lolloo | do you guys recommend better app for camera than the stock one? | 19:05 |
| sobczyk | oh yes that one, thx TiagoTiago_ | 19:05 |
| lcuk | with our * | 19:05 |
| Jucato | Hi, I just quickly glanced at the backlog. What's the official plan for Maemo 6? I mean in relation to MeeGo? I saw "MeeGo/Harmattan" but I'm not sure what that means | 19:05 |
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| * lcuk used to take crap photos, but now I have learnt to breath and take considered shots | 19:05 | |
| sobczyk | I tried blessN900 for photos, but you have to have really steady hand or the photos won't look great | 19:05 |
| sobczyk | night photos | 19:06 |
| lolloo | yes your right | 19:06 |
| kerio | and your left too | 19:06 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 19:06 |
| lolloo | need to smoke first before taking a pic | 19:06 |
| kerio | or you won't be able to keep the n900 steady | 19:06 |
| lolloo | anyone got weed | 19:06 |
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| lolloo | calm my nerves | 19:07 |
| sobczyk | n900 can use SDIO? | 19:07 |
| lolloo | whats that? | 19:07 |
| TiagoTiago_ | people were talking about GPIO here the other day, it's ont he wiki | 19:07 |
| sobczyk | plg in devicein SD card port | 19:07 |
| l0up | is it possible to use device speakers and headphone output at the same time, with different audio to both outputs? | 19:07 |
| sobczyk | ie. accelerometer or gps, though it's there already | 19:08 |
| TiagoTiago_ | a gyro or compass would be more usefull with the N900 | 19:08 |
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| sobczyk | just made me wonder and makinga google search for SDIO gyro | 19:09 |
| TiagoTiago_ | don't forget the slot int he N900 is a microSD, not mini | 19:10 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | i dunno fi there are adapters from big to small | 19:11 |
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| jpinxN900 | TiagoTiago_: there are - I use one for the micro card in my normal size slot in the eeepc | 19:12 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i mean the other way around | 19:12 |
| sobczyk | why wouldn't a gyro fir in a micro slot? | 19:13 |
| sobczyk | fit | 19:13 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago_, umm | 19:15 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | i imagine it's more likelly you would find bigger ones | 19:15 |
| lcuk | if it cannot fit in the slot | 19:16 |
| lcuk | at original size | 19:16 |
| lcuk | then where will it live | 19:16 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | it will not be in the slot, the adapter will have a dangling apendage | 19:17 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | the appendage that will go in the tight slot | 19:18 |
| MNZ | l0up, that's not possible without some considerable kernel hacking | 19:18 |
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| ieatlint | dude, it does not sound like sd cards are being discussed here | 19:25 |
| TiagoTiago_ | lol | 19:26 |
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| jarkkom | anyone know if there's any way of disabling flip-to-silence feature on N900? | 19:28 |
| l0up | MNZ: damn, would've been nice.. thought of coding portable djstudio as a hobbyproject :) | 19:35 |
| MNZ | l0up, if you are up for the job really I can look into it and see if it's actually possible | 19:36 |
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| l0up | would be very nice! i think i could use that feature also on another project im working on (simple stepsequencer/sampler) | 19:37 |
| Jaffa | TTOTD: When querying phone tower/cell/LAC info... make sure your N900 has a SIM card in it... | 19:38 |
| MNZ | l0up, is this stuff on garage? links? | 19:38 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, doesnt the device see towers and cells anyway? | 19:38 |
| lcuk | without a sim | 19:39 |
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| lcuk | ie, don't certain countries define still requiring connectivity for emergency services even sans sim | 19:39 |
| lcuk | or am I misremembering something | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Nope, cos it's a side-effect of being *registered* with a towwr | 19:39 |
| l0up | MNZ: not yet, just started real coding last week.. lots of planning and qt learning done :) | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: No, you atill need a SIM - just some countries mandate being able to call 1q2 over any network. | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | Not the UK tho' | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is stupid. | 19:40 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 19:40 | |
| MNZ | l0up, heck I'll gladly take a break from my current blocked state and see what I can do about that :P | 19:41 |
| TiagoTiago_ | if the law requried, would it be possible to call emergency numbers even without a sim? | 19:41 |
| MNZ | l0up, if you are into this audio stuff, are you familiar with IIR filters and/or parametric EQs ? | 19:41 |
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| Jaffa | TiagoTiago_: NAFAIK. You execute code on the SIM and the modem *needs* it | 19:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - no SIM - at+COPS=? | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ERROR | 19:43 |
| TiagoTiago_ | oh, I thought the SIM was only about identification stuff and storing numbers and SMSs etc | 19:43 |
| jarkkom | yes you can place a call without SIM | 19:43 |
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| jarkkom | phone will just signal any nearby basestation that it wants to make emergency call, and BS will kick out existing callers if necessary to make room on air | 19:44 |
| l0up | MNZ: cool! lemme know what you can get out of it.. no, not familiar with filters/eqs (atleast not yet), just started reading about what one can do with phonon | 19:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Or it will utterly ignore you in the UK. | 19:44 |
| l0up | MNZ: only familiar w/ eqs and filters as a user :) | 19:45 |
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| jarkkom | SpeedEvil, well at least on GSM it's requirement to allow emergency calls, even though possible keypad lock | 19:45 |
| MNZ | l0up, ah.. oh well. And phonon :/ | 19:45 |
| TiagoTiago_ | can they track you if you start a DOS initiating emergency calls over and over again, never actually completing it, just going far enough for the base station to give you highre priority? | 19:45 |
| jarkkom | TiagoTiago_, yeah they'll know your IMEI at least | 19:46 |
| jarkkom | and it can be blacklisted if it's clearly malfunctioning terminal | 19:46 |
| jarkkom | but there's easier ways to do denial-of-service on base station if that's what someone wants to do | 19:47 |
| TiagoTiago_ | i wonder what's gonna happen when people finally break the codes cellphone makers need to keep secret to avoid people messing with the networks and shit hits the fan | 19:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - it's fairly broken now. | 19:49 |
| jarkkom | there's no big secrets | 19:49 |
| sobczyk | wasn't it just gsm? | 19:49 |
| l0up | MNZ: well phonon was fist hit when googling about audio/media related info for qt. got better suggestions?:) | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | For several 10s of K, and a fair bit of programming now, you can do cracking in near realtime of calls. | 19:49 |
| TiagoTiago_ | if it's not a secret anymore, why was it necessary for Nokia to waste money walling the cell modem and stuff from us? | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: Because it is unlawful in many places to sell 'hacking equipment' | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is what - at least in UK law - the n900 would be once it was abused. | 19:50 |
| MNZ | l0up, no, not really. I'm just not a fan :D | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The retailer is then obliged to fix it, or is liable to jailtime. | 19:50 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | what is there to fix when the secret is out? | 19:51 |
| SpeedEvil | 3G is more resistant to attacks | 19:51 |
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| sobczyk | wouldn't it be easier and plug directly into cables at base station? :) | 19:52 |
| l0up | MNZ: hehe ok:) well i try to manage with that for start | 19:52 |
| TiagoTiago_ | since you guys seem to know about this security stuff, lemme ask you somthing, can my GSM account have been cloned if i've kept all my old SIM cards of this account with me? (assuming "bad guys" haven't got physical access to any of my SIM cards) | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it - cloning of SIMs is not possible over-the-air. | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | With very old SIMs, you can crack the codes out of them | 19:54 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 19:55 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | but i've got all the old SIMs (over the time i've asked the carrier to upgrade my SIM, for more memory, or even just to get clean undented contacts, but i still have my old ones), so there is no chance my account has been cloned, unless the people in the store cloned the SIMs under the counter, correct? | 19:57 |
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| mece | hello | 20:00 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand, no | 20:01 |
| MNZ | l0up, well turning on both headphone and speaker (same output) is already possible with things as they are (though you will _probably_ need a little patch I wrote for speaker protection... long story) | 20:01 |
| TiagoTiago_ | can i read the long story somehwere? | 20:01 |
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| MNZ | l0up, different outputs though, that will require a considerable change to how the audio codec is used on the N900. Probably not a good idea for everyday use | 20:02 |
| TiagoTiago_ | might also help with that idea of using the N900 as a hearing aid | 20:02 |
| l0up | MNZ: thought so:F well maybe i'll just ditch the djstudio project and get my focus on the sampler/sequencer | 20:03 |
| MNZ | in brief it would render the headphone unusable for 'normal' playback | 20:03 |
| MNZ | l0up, I believe that would be a good idea, yeah | 20:03 |
| MNZ | TiagoTiago_, long story has been discussed several times here, not going to recount :P | 20:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | you can't like create virtual soundcards, and redirect the outputs? | 20:04 |
| l0up | there should be enough work in one project as i havent got the time :P | 20:04 |
| TiagoTiago_ | ah, it was only told in chat? :/ | 20:04 |
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| MNZ | TiagoTiago_, short version: PulseAudio protects speakers by removing bass signals. We can do that in HW instead. | 20:06 |
| mece | is there some sort of general intro to qml somewhere? I seem to be failing on some very basic stuff. Like how can I access something that is a child of something from outside the parent? | 20:06 |
| TiagoTiago_ | hm | 20:06 |
| TiagoTiago_ | what is wrong with bass? | 20:06 |
| MNZ | TiagoTiago_, cheap n900 speakers will die a snappy death when confronted with bass, rumor has it. | 20:07 |
| TiagoTiago_ | that sucks :( | 20:07 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | why those tiny earphones can handle bass so nicelly but speakers in the N900 can't? | 20:08 |
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| mece | TiagoTiago_, well the speakers have to do it a lot louder. | 20:09 |
| TiagoTiago_ | hm | 20:09 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | does the N900 at least does that fake bass with the, i forgot the name now, those fainter lines on top of the main frequency in a spectograph ? | 20:11 |
| mece | it makes sense to strip bass from speakers that can't handle it though. Would make the sound crackle otherwise. | 20:11 |
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| kerio | MNZ: would the audio codec work with hypotetical usb soundcards? | 20:27 |
| MNZ | kerio, sorry I don't follow. The audio codec is a chip on board | 20:29 |
| MNZ | if you want to plug a USB sound card, then by all means go ahead. It just needs to have support (a driver) under linux | 20:29 |
| kerio | yeah but would it be able to route audio through an external soundcard? | 20:29 |
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| kerio | with minor effort on the cpu part | 20:29 |
| MNZ | no it wouldn't. Audio would have to be explicitly sent to the sound card through ALSA | 20:29 |
| kerio | :( | 20:30 |
| kerio | oh well | 20:30 |
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| MNZ | and besides, you would need host mode first :D | 20:30 |
| TiagoTiago_ | what is the name of those fainter lines above the main freuqnecy in a spectograph? | 20:30 |
| kerio | well of course | 20:30 |
| kerio | hmm... peak lines? | 20:31 |
| kerio | no, wait | 20:31 |
| kerio | what lines | 20:31 |
| TiagoTiago_ | in a spectograph, with a pure sine wave, above the bright line at the frequency of the sound, there are a bunch of fainter lines that follow it | 20:31 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | ah, i think that might be it, "harmonics" | 20:32 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | there is a trick for faking bass on speakers that don't make bass that low, it involves reinforcing the harmonics of the bass frequencies that the speaker can play, and the brain will imagine there is actually true bass comming from the speakers | 20:34 |
| TiagoTiago_ | the harmonics the speaker can play for the bass they can't | 20:35 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | it's an auditory illusion | 20:36 |
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| frals | hmm | 21:23 |
| frals | how long is the election open? | 21:23 |
| Jaffa | frals: Ends Wednesday, 23:59 UTC | 21:23 |
| frals | Jaffa: ty | 21:23 |
| frals | not aligned with the swedish election then, typical! ;) | 21:24 |
| Jaffa | frals: One's much more importants ;-) | 21:24 |
| Jaffa | frals: Oh, when I was in Stockholm a couple of weeks ago and saw all the posters, is it the law that they must all take the same format of inconsequential background, portrait shot and a few words? | 21:24 |
| frals | Jaffa: lol | 21:25 |
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| frals | Jaffa: no, they are all just useless :-) | 21:25 |
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| Jaffa | frals: Ah, OK. So much for Swedish design ;-) | 21:25 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, how you your youtube video coming on? | 21:26 |
| frals | Jaffa: yeah.. they should probably hire IKEA designers henceforth ;D | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: It's pushed back until I can get some of the Swedish election organisers on my staff | 21:26 |
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| lcuk | heh | 21:27 |
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| TiagoTiago_ | i think i'll go sleep now finally, cya | 21:38 |
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| MNZ | night TiagoTiago_ | 21:40 |
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| lcuk | errr | 21:42 |
| lcuk | my device is umm not responding | 21:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Have you tried CPR? | 21:43 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, i tried SMS | 21:43 |
| lcuk | i tohught battery had gone | 21:43 |
| lcuk | and was looking for cable | 21:43 |
| lcuk | then a sms came in | 21:43 |
| lcuk | which showed me it was still awake, how odd | 21:44 |
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| nox- | moin | 22:09 |
| ptl | wiki | 22:10 |
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| ShadSEC2 | Anyone knows how to export variables from a shell running iinside Screen so that it is accesible from next created screen window? the obvious export is not working for me.... | 22:13 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: screen -X setenv VAR VAL | 22:13 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: export of course only applies to the current shell and its children | 22:14 |
| ShadSEC2 | lindi, but the variables get created once main script is already running inside screen | 22:14 |
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| lindi- | ShadSEC2: you can run screen -X inside screen | 22:14 |
| ShadSEC2 | and its that same script the one that is launching another script inside a new screen window | 22:14 |
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| lindi- | ShadSEC2: sounds complex. what variable is it? | 22:15 |
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| ShadSEC2 | lindi, I see, but do I have to pass all the vars I want to export in the -X when creating the screen? | 22:15 |
| ShadSEC2 | that's the problem, there are many vars I want to have accesible | 22:15 |
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| lindi- | ShadSEC2: save them to a file and source that file from the scripts that need them? | 22:16 |
| ShadSEC2 | all are variables created during the execution of main script | 22:16 |
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| ShadSEC2 | yep, if theres not other way that's what ill have to do, but its soo ugly :( | 22:17 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: depends on what variables they are :) | 22:17 |
| ShadSEC2 | so I was just wondering if there were some "clean" way | 22:17 |
| ShadSEC2 | what do you mean? | 22:17 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: I don't know, show me the source and I might be able to suggest a more targeted guess :) | 22:18 |
| ShadSEC2 | The source is already more than 40Kb of script :P | 22:19 |
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| lindi- | ShadSEC2: you might be doing it wrong :P | 22:19 |
| ShadSEC2 | They are just variables like AP_MAC, AP_ESSID, CLIENT_MAC, etc.... that I want to have exported for plugins to main program that may be able to use those already set variables | 22:20 |
| ShadSEC2 | that way, the plugin code runs as if it were part of the main program... well, a plugin.... | 22:21 |
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| ShadSEC2 | lindi-, yep, theer are already many wrong things in my code :P | 22:21 |
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| lindi- | ShadSEC2: plugins for a shell script? | 22:22 |
| ShadSEC2 | yep | 22:22 |
| MNZ | This is new. Interesting. | 22:22 |
| ShadSEC2 | perhaps plugin is not the right word.. but intended functionality is that | 22:23 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: usually these "plugins" are children of the main program | 22:23 |
| lindi- | so you can just inherit environment variablesa | 22:23 |
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| ShadSEC2 | it is a children | 22:25 |
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| lindi- | ShadSEC2: then it should inherit the environment variables automatically | 22:25 |
| ShadSEC2 | but for some reason, exported variables from main script are not being accesible in spawned screens | 22:25 |
| ShadSEC2 | yep, thats what I thought | 22:25 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: are you sure they are children? | 22:26 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: look at "ps --forest -eo pid,cmd" | 22:26 |
| ShadSEC2 | lemme check | 22:26 |
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| ShadSEC2 | lindi-, I am not sure what to look for..... | 22:35 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: can you put the output online? | 22:36 |
| ShadSEC2 | that would a be a bit complex while the program is running... ill redirect to file and transfer afterwards | 22:37 |
| ShadSEC2 | but now I think the child it is not of the main script running | 22:38 |
| ShadSEC2 | but a child of screen itself | 22:38 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: that's what I guessed too | 22:38 |
| ShadSEC2 | screen -t "plugin" xxxxx/plugin <- this is how it is spawned | 22:39 |
| ShadSEC2 | even if it is being spawned from the main script it is screen creating it | 22:39 |
| lindi- | yes | 22:39 |
| ShadSEC2 | so.... better stop thinking about it, and just export the vars to file and source it from the plugin? | 22:40 |
| lindi- | ShadSEC2: is screen really a dependency of your app? | 22:40 |
| ShadSEC2 | absolutely | 22:40 |
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| ShadSEC2 | in fact what my app does is managing several process running in different screens | 22:41 |
| lindi- | hmm :) | 22:41 |
| ShadSEC2 | well, Ill do the export and sourcing so that I can go on, and Ill have time to rethink it sometime later... | 22:42 |
| ShadSEC2 | thanks lindi- | 22:42 |
| mintux | i have a problem here.sometimes my desktop freeze it means.no shortcuts or widget doesn't click.but task menu works and clickable and i habe to open my softwares from app manager not shortcut from desktop.i have to shutdown my phone and turn it on again and its very boring | 22:43 |
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| mintux | how can i restart my desktop and shortcuts or solve my problems? | 22:43 |
| mintux | without reboot phone | 22:44 |
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| johnx | killall hildon-desktop might work | 22:45 |
| johnx | or it might force a reboot your phone if hildon-desktop can't be restarted quickly enough | 22:46 |
| mintux | if i kill hildon.my shortcuts doesn't appear | 22:47 |
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| johnx | it can take a bit of time | 22:47 |
| mintux | i did killall | 22:49 |
| mintux | i don't have no shortcuts on my desktops and widgets.how to appear them? | 22:50 |
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| johnx | when you killall hildon-desktop the system should restart it | 22:51 |
| johnx | if it didn't you probably need to reboot | 22:51 |
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| mintux | great i asked here for not rebooting.there is no way to restart my widgets | 22:53 |
| johnx | I said it might work *shrugs* | 22:54 |
| johnx | it's worked for me plenty of times, but it sounds like something else is wrong if this happens all the time | 22:54 |
| * lcuk slides down a firemans pole and into the chan | 22:54 | |
| * MNZ starts a fire | 22:55 | |
| mintux | if i clicked on settings icon i can see close icon on the shortcuts but shortcuts doesn't appear | 22:56 |
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| lcuk | MNZ, !!! | 22:57 |
| MNZ | mintux, try this '/etc/init.d/hildon-desktop start' | 22:57 |
| lcuk | I watched ghostbusters last night, best movie I have seen in ages | 22:57 |
| lcuk | really well done with an expansive workup and terric story | 22:57 |
| lcuk | which movies over 5 years old have you seen recently? :p | 22:58 |
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| MNZ | lcuk, Nell | 22:58 |
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| lcuk | MNZ, was it good? | 23:09 |
| MNZ | lcuk, beyond amazing. Though not everyone's cup of tea I'd imagine. | 23:10 |
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| xqo | hello, what is the first meego-phone called? | 23:13 |
| xqo | n900s successor? | 23:13 |
| nox- | i think there are only rumours (n9?) | 23:13 |
| xqo | oh. | 23:14 |
| xqo | any estimates on when it will be out? | 23:14 |
| kerio | lcuk: (not 5 years old) have you watched Kick-Ass? | 23:14 |
| xqo | im considering whether or not to buy the n900, trying to find out if im making a mistake buying old hardware | 23:14 |
| mgedmin | xqo, I'm under the impression it comes out some time late this year | 23:14 |
| xqo | oh, okay. | 23:14 |
| kerio | old hardware? it's not even 1 year old | 23:15 |
| mgedmin | I think it's likely it'll be announced during the MeeGo conference in november | 23:15 |
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| xqo | even still, it has half the ram of todays phones, only 3g and it is pretty expensive for being so old. | 23:15 |
| xqo | but as far as i can tell, there are no alternatives with the same kind of freedom | 23:16 |
| xqo | or? | 23:16 |
| pexi | no | 23:18 |
| kerio | only 3g? | 23:18 |
| kerio | :o | 23:18 |
| pexi | buy it and try it | 23:18 |
| kerio | it's some really dope shit | 23:18 |
| kerio | it's really worth it | 23:19 |
| kerio | even though it has some really, REALLY stupid flaws | 23:19 |
| xqo | like what? | 23:19 |
| pexi | it is going to be some kind of technological achievement in the future anyway | 23:19 |
| kerio | pulseaudio, the bme, busybox, optification | 23:19 |
| xqo | whats that, kerio | 23:20 |
| pexi | and as a smartphone, you don't really get smart options | 23:20 |
| johnsu01 | ughh, n900 won't get past the bright NOKIA screen now, then it just turns itself off | 23:20 |
| xqo | im contemplating whether or not to get the n900, the HTC Desire, or the Samsung Galaxy S. | 23:20 |
| johnsu01 | it got a few raindrops on it last night but really very little :/ | 23:20 |
| xqo | what do you think? | 23:20 |
| kerio | xqo: stupid audio system, stupid battery system, stupid shell environment, stupid file hierarchy | 23:21 |
| kerio | xqo: buy the n900 | 23:21 |
| kerio | it's worth it | 23:21 |
| pexi | well I prefer desire more as a phone, but didn't get use to it's touch screen for writing (ircing) | 23:21 |
| pexi | and all the services and applications worked like a charm | 23:21 |
| pexi | web browsing was flawless | 23:22 |
| kerio | xqo: see, those are phones | 23:22 |
| kerio | the n900 is a tablet | 23:22 |
| pexi | but n900 is still a superb toy | 23:22 |
| kerio | the n900 is *the* toy | 23:22 |
| wmarone | I think the "tablet" designation got moved up a couple inches ;) | 23:22 |
| pexi | yep :) | 23:22 |
| xqo | im looking for a phone to call and text with, but i want some freedom, that i hear android doesnt really have? | 23:23 |
| kerio | xqo: the day after the one i bought the n900, i was busy changing the X11 keymap files to have more symbols | 23:23 |
| xqo | is n900 no good as a phone? assuming the user is a nerd | 23:23 |
| kerio | that's the level of freedom | 23:23 |
| kerio | huh? why would a nerd need a phone to call | 23:23 |
| kerio | ;) | 23:24 |
| xqo | but what do you think? n900 as phone or no? | 23:24 |
| wmarone | it's fine as a phone | 23:24 |
| pexi | btw can you turn off that blinking of screen when someone calls you? :) | 23:24 |
| pexi | hard to hit the accept call button :) | 23:24 |
| kerio | nerds need a "phone" to surf the web, chat on IRC and watch pr0n | 23:24 |
| xqo | wmarone, really? it doesnt sound too bad, but someone mentioned it is kind of clunky because you have to start the gsm-app and stuff before you can call | 23:24 |
| kerio | gsm-app? :o | 23:25 |
| wmarone | gsm-app? | 23:25 |
| kerio | are you kidding | 23:25 |
| wmarone | I hit the phone icon and call :) | 23:25 |
| kerio | xqo: are you a nerd? | 23:25 |
| kerio | if you are, then buy it | 23:25 |
| kerio | you won't regret ir | 23:25 |
| kerio | it | 23:25 |
| xqo | so if i want a phone i can install whatever i want on, use the debian-repositories, use a terminal, use python, and call/send SMS with, ill get the n900? | 23:25 |
| kerio | yup | 23:26 |
| nox- | yep | 23:26 |
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| luke-jr | xqo: no | 23:26 |
| kerio | luke-jr: huh | 23:26 |
| nox- | only when you multitask `too much' it can get a bit slow bc of swapping :) | 23:26 |
| luke-jr | xqo: you can't install whatever you want on N900 | 23:26 |
| xqo | alright, but still, it is kind of old yes? and MeeGo is coming. Will it not be just outdated hardware? | 23:27 |
| luke-jr | xqo: the specs aren't open enough | 23:27 |
| luke-jr | it's already outdated hardware, really | 23:27 |
| xqo | i thought the stack was free, and the schematics were leaked, luke-jr? | 23:27 |
| luke-jr | 256 MB RAM is so 2009 | 23:27 |
| luke-jr | xqo: schematics don't give you enough to write drivers | 23:27 |
| kerio | we have no idea when the n9 will be on the shelves | 23:27 |
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| wmarone | there's only two system binaries, SGX and BME | 23:28 |
| xqo | this one, kerio? http://img.gfx.no/722/722463/topp.788x554!.jpg | 23:28 |
| kerio | xqo: yeah, the NokBook Pro | 23:28 |
| kerio | :) | 23:28 |
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| luke-jr | wmarone: BME is replaced, practically | 23:28 |
| wmarone | good, then only one left | 23:29 |
| Adeon | my cat is more cute | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | but I don't think SGX stands alone yet | 23:29 |
| * luke-jr ponders what else | 23:29 | |
| wmarone | the only bits left, IIRC, are firmware | 23:29 |
| kerio | Adeon: does your cat run MeeGo? | 23:29 |
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| Adeon | I think it runs some sort of feline OS | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | wmarone: NOLO | 23:29 |
| wmarone | yes, nolo | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | that's not firmware. | 23:29 |
| Adeon | it doesn't have a proper user interface | 23:29 |
| kerio | and of course the thing that runs on rapuyama | 23:29 |
| kerio | you know, the phone | 23:30 |
| luke-jr | kerio: that's firmware, from the N900 standpoint | 23:30 |
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| pexi | i've heard that n9 is coming q1/2011 | 23:31 |
| xqo | then.. buy n900 or wait? | 23:31 |
| luke-jr | xqo: depends on what you want | 23:31 |
| luke-jr | xqo: and your budget | 23:31 |
| luke-jr | if you can afford to buy another device within a year, get N900 | 23:31 |
| luke-jr | cuz I don't expect another device to be remotely competitive with N900 before then | 23:32 |
| luke-jr | if you're happy using Maemo and MeeGo, N900 should also be fine | 23:32 |
| kerio | not to mention the n9 will cost a lot, especially on day1 | 23:32 |
| pexi | but its just a rumour and no NDA broken | 23:32 |
| kerio | pexi: "just a rumor" = COOL STORY, BRO | 23:33 |
| pexi | yep ;) | 23:33 |
| kerio | s/rumor/rumour/ | 23:33 |
| infobot | kerio meant: pexi: "just a rumour" = COOL STORY, BRO | 23:33 |
| luke-jr | pexi: I heard it was coming out in a week | 23:33 |
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| johnsu01 | reflashed and still won't finishing turning on :( | 23:33 |
| xqo | what about the desire? | 23:33 |
| MNZ | I heard it too. It was very loud. | 23:33 |
| luke-jr | my wife heard it was coming out in 2012 | 23:33 |
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| kerio | johnsq: you're lying | 23:33 |
| kerio | also reflash the eMMC too | 23:33 |
| luke-jr | my 2 year old says we're both wrong, and it's coming out 2043 | 23:34 |
| pexi | xqo, solid smartphone with great user experience, only lacks physical keyboard | 23:34 |
| johnsu01 | kerio: did both | 23:34 |
| xqo | pexi, but compared to the n900? | 23:34 |
| luke-jr | xqo: N900 isn't a phone. If you want a phone, get something else | 23:34 |
| pexi | and the price was really cheap in here for a while.. like 260e | 23:34 |
| pexi | some operator campaing | 23:34 |
| luke-jr | xqo: you can't compare a phone to a non-phone, unless you mean strictly hardware | 23:34 |
| kerio | xqo: the N900 is a tiny computer that also does some phone calls and sends a couple of SMSes | 23:34 |
| MNZ | n900 > n9 by approximately n890 | 23:35 |
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| pexi | xqo, well, it depends what you want to do | 23:35 |
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| kerio | it's a smartsmartphone | 23:35 |
| johnsu01 | while connected to USB power, it just has the grayed-out screen, and does a quick vibration every minute or so | 23:35 |
| xqo | but how well does it work for that? Im buying this because i need something to call/sms with, but also because i want something fun to play with. | 23:35 |
| johnsu01 | green light is solid on | 23:35 |
| xqo | is it shit to use as a phone? | 23:36 |
| kerio | nah, it's fine | 23:36 |
| pexi | as we have stated, buy it and try it - u can get cheap used one and sell it if u don't like it :) | 23:36 |
| luke-jr | xqo: if you don't mind waiting 5 seconds before you can answer calls | 23:36 |
| luke-jr | xqo: and don't need MMS | 23:36 |
| kerio | luke-jr: that's a gross overestimation | 23:36 |
| luke-jr | kerio: not at all | 23:36 |
| kerio | also why can't the guy that's calling you wait for 5 seconds | 23:36 |
| * johnsu01 has mms and does not wait that long to answer a call | 23:36 | |
| xqo | what do you mean, is it sluggish or something? | 23:36 |
| luke-jr | kerio: by the time my N900 gets the call, he's already waited 4 or 5 | 23:36 |
| pexi | what about the blinking screen? can you hack it? | 23:37 |
| kerio | johnsu01: no you don't, your n900 is FUBAR | 23:37 |
| luke-jr | xqo: very, over time; always, when rotating the screen | 23:37 |
| johnsu01 | kerio: yes :( | 23:37 |
| pexi | (sorry, haven't googled it) | 23:37 |
| luke-jr | kerio: err, I mean 4 or 5 rings there :p | 23:37 |
| * johnsu01 checks the warranty | 23:37 | |
| kerio | xqo: the n900 still beats both those phones you mentioned, really | 23:37 |
| luke-jr | xqo: reboot it once a week and it's just the 4-5 second rotation delay | 23:37 |
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| xqo | how big is it by the way? | 23:39 |
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| luke-jr | xqo: too small | 23:39 |
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| luke-jr | vy x by x de Mt | 23:40 |
| frals | luke-jr: MMS works fine :p | 23:40 |
| kerio | frals: shameless plug eh | 23:40 |
| frals | ^^ | 23:40 |
| luke-jr | frals: if "fine" means "not at all" | 23:40 |
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| frals | luke-jr: WORKSFORME | 23:40 |
| wmarone | luke-jr lacks any and all tact | 23:40 |
| * noobmonk3y needs a guniea-pig!! - anyone got their n900 and a headset to hand? | 23:40 | |
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| frals | noobmonk3y: ye | 23:41 |
| luke-jr | wmarone++ | 23:41 |
| noobmonk3y | frals - can you play something through it and test cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0060/volume | 23:41 |
| johnx | xqo, my N900 has been working rather well. Other people seem to install background processes and 3rd party widgets and then wonder why things get slow over time | 23:41 |
| noobmonk3y | just adding healthcheckythings, but got no headset :P hehe | 23:41 |
| noobmonk3y | evening btw frals ;) | 23:41 |
| noobmonk3y | was singing your praises on the UK vodafone forums last week, and got someones fmms working, hehehe | 23:42 |
| luke-jr | johnx: so in other words you, to make it work sanely you need to not use it except as a phone? :P | 23:42 |
| noobmonk3y | (Was only there to winge at them about something else!) | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | johnx, recently, vasvlad released the xscreensavers along with the live wallpaper stuff | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Xscreensaver | 23:42 |
| lcuk | if you see the wiki page | 23:42 |
| noobmonk3y | :P | 23:42 |
| lcuk | it includes information about how much cpu each uses | 23:42 |
| johnx | luke-jr, 3rd party *apps* are fine. 3rd party daemons and widgets may or may not come with memory leaks. the N900 will not prevent you from doing something stupid, so use your own brain | 23:42 |
| pexi | xqo, if you want python, n900 is your friend | 23:43 |
| lcuk | I wonder if we could get this sort of rating onto packages | 23:43 |
| frals | noobmonk3y: evenin :) | 23:43 |
| lcuk | so that when looking in on downloads | 23:43 |
| lcuk | you could say "show me the lightcpu ones only" | 23:43 |
| pexi | though pys60 is nice too | 23:43 |
| lcuk | "show me the heavyweights" | 23:43 |
| noobmonk3y | lcuk, hmmmm... more of a cpu tally! (Ie, all running at once = high load etc) | 23:43 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, you also might know who else | 23:43 |
| luke-jr | johnx: it's the PR1.2 included apps that leak | 23:44 |
| noobmonk3y | one on its own, even being bad, wont be too evil | 23:44 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, etc | 23:44 |
| luke-jr | daemons* | 23:44 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, which ones | 23:44 |
| frals | noobmonk3y: it seems to increase/decrese with volume | 23:44 |
| noobmonk3y | yayyyyyyyy | 23:44 |
| johnx | luke-jr, the most trouble I've had is with the web browser, and even that only happens on occasion | 23:44 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I forget. Check the logs for my study. | 23:44 |
| noobmonk3y | can detect mute too, wohooooo | 23:44 |
| lcuk | please dig out the url and I will have a read | 23:44 |
| johnx | xqo, when are you looking to buy? | 23:44 |
| noobmonk3y | thanks frals :) | 23:44 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: no idea | 23:44 |
| xqo | monday, joelpet | 23:44 |
| frals | np :) | 23:44 |
| lcuk | hi noobmonk3y btw | 23:45 |
| xqo | monday, johnsq | 23:45 |
| lcuk | and frals \o | 23:45 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I have no usable computer at the moment. | 23:45 |
| xqo | monday, johnx | 23:45 |
| noobmonk3y | hehe, heya lcuk! | 23:45 |
| frals | o/ lcuk | 23:45 |
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| xqo | ive almost decided to go for the n900, but i want to know how sluggish it really is? | 23:45 |
| johnx | xqo, Meego world is happening in early November and almost certainly an announcement of some type will be made then. It might not mean a device is going on sale immediately though | 23:46 |
| xqo | is luke-jr just being really negative, or does it get slow and sluggish? | 23:46 |
| noobmonk3y | frals - anyidea on max/min? | 23:46 |
| luke-jr | xqo: "nusance", not "useless" | 23:46 |
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| noobmonk3y | or min i assume is 0? | 23:46 |
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| johnx | xqo, luke-jr is very negative, and also has a bias against Nokia. ask him about it | 23:46 |
| frals | noobmonk3y: bah, closed everything.. i *think* i was at max and it said 37 or smth | 23:46 |
| luke-jr | johnx: what bias? | 23:46 |
| johnx | luke-jr, do you like Nokia? | 23:46 |
| lcuk | xqo, yes, you can overload your n900 | 23:46 |
| noobmonk3y | xqo, mine is running smoothly :) - allways has, works fine :) | 23:46 |
| lcuk | just like any computer | 23:46 |
| noobmonk3y | ty frals | 23:46 |
| lcuk | you are bring it to its knees if you try hard enough | 23:47 |
| luke-jr | johnx: indifferent, if you exclude all the reasoned dislikes from their products | 23:47 |
| pexi | there are coming interesting other meego phones also | 23:47 |
| frals | pexi: any links? | 23:47 |
| lcuk | but the system is strong, its pretty much 5 years of the best gtk ui and is as close to debian as you will see | 23:47 |
| pexi | sorry | 23:47 |
| pexi | :) | 23:47 |
| pexi | well i hope they can get the package working on time | 23:48 |
| johnx | xqo, I think the answer about whether you will like it really depends on your usage. If you want something you can use everyday as a phone, but you also want to hack on it, there really isn't anything else in its class | 23:48 |
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| xqo | thanks, im getting pretty excited about it. | 23:49 |
| pexi | buy and try | 23:49 |
| johnx | xqo, a warning about 'using the debian repositories': you can't use them directly | 23:50 |
| johnx | some people have setup a chroot and installed debian that way, but it's not 100% foolproof and the general consensus is that it slows things down noticeably | 23:51 |
| kerio | still, it lets you run openoffice and gimp | 23:51 |
| johnx | right. | 23:51 |
| johnx | also, the N900 will not prevent you from doing something dumb and making your phone unbootable | 23:52 |
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| pexi | hope they don't overprotect the n9 | 23:52 |
| noobmonk3y | ty frals - 3 more things added to healthcheck, on a roll tonight :) | 23:52 |
| johnx | ... and I see that as a good thing: preventing you from doing a lot of dumb things may prevent you from doing one very clever thing | 23:52 |
| kerio | johnx: third law of robotics | 23:52 |
| johnx | kerio, heh :D | 23:53 |
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| noobmonk3y | lcuk, ooooo the leds on the n900 have a selfcheck function :) | 23:54 |
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| noobmonk3y | or is that known, and i'm just finding out?! | 23:54 |
| johnx | Full disclosure: I also find alias rm="rm -i" to be annoying, as well as the 'trash can' concept on desktops, and I think we should take the obvious warning labels off everything | 23:54 |
| johnx | back in a min | 23:55 |
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| dneary | w00t, w00t_: Ping? | 23:56 |
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| volts | hello | 23:56 |
| nox- | oh yeah that rm -i alias is not good (also when ppl get used to it and then end up using a box that doesnt have it...) | 23:56 |
| MNZ | rm -rf / | 23:57 |
| MNZ | ^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C | 23:57 |
| dneary | MNZ, Yeah, I feel a bit like that... | 23:59 |
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