IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-09-12

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`Francesca_Lucchhumm solarwolf game dont work can anyone help me?00:02
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, they tested this?00:11
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DocScrutinizerthey published an app that used those IR commands directed to CMOS cam chip. Alas I think it was the mag issue of end of March, 1st of April ;-D00:12
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nox-moin00:27
DocScrutinizermoin00:27
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nox-moin DocScrutinizer00:28
* GAN900 is out of cookies. :(00:29
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MNZ51evening folks00:30
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heyyaDocScrutinizer, lol I just read all of that, and then april 1st tagline bologne!00:35
heyyahaha00:35
heyyaor punchline, rather00:35
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crashanddiewhat the fuck are you on about?00:50
MNZ51does it matter?00:51
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felipecis there a tool to measure the battery drain?01:05
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Stskeepsfelipec: FTD, possibly01:07
Stskeepswell, or the community tools for battery graphing01:07
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felipecStskeeps: right, but I don't need graphing, just measure the drain in say one minute (or a configurable period of time)01:08
Stskeeps:nod:01:09
Stskeepsi would cook up something with libbmeipc personally01:09
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DocScrutinizerI wouldn't give a sh... about bme lies and rather use values from bq27200 directly01:16
felipecDocScrutinizer: but that module is only available in special kernels, right?01:17
DocScrutinizernope, you can read out via I2Ctools01:17
felipecDocScrutinizer: yeah, that's another method01:18
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DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management#Powerscript01:19
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SpeedEvilfelipe: that does 5s, as the hardware is 5s period01:19
SpeedEvilIt seems to idle at around 6mA load - if you redirect to a file01:20
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GNUtoo|laptophi,01:20
GNUtoo|laptopI've the lastest kernel source and it still does that:01:20
GNUtoo|laptophttp://pastebin.com/6dFgLE9f01:20
GNUtoo|laptopwith the rx51 maemo defconfig01:21
GNUtoo|laptopkernel was from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/01:21
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felipecDocScrutinizer: SpeedEvil: yeap, that seems to be what I want01:23
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itsMEhello everyone01:28
DocScrutinizerfelipec: there's also ShadowJK's script that reads out a lot more from bq27200 chip. Not just actual current but also precise elapsed mAh discharge (relative reading_new - reading_old)01:28
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DocScrutinizerfelipec: alas I seem to lack any pointer to that script01:28
itsMEhas anybody managed to successfully use gtk eventbox in c?01:29
felipecDocScrutinizer: but I need a special kernel01:29
ShadowJKno01:29
DocScrutinizerwhy?01:29
itsMEgreat thanks01:30
DocScrutinizerall you need is I2Ctools01:30
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ShadowJKitsME, sorry i wasn't replying to you01:30
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: where to download or otherwise get your script? isn't it on any wiki page yet?01:31
itsMEwell i dont even know if its the right place, maybe theres some other channel for developerrs01:31
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ShadowJKWell I've only ever offered it to people who ask for it in irc01:32
ShadowJKiirc http://enivax.net/jk/n900/bq.tar01:32
ShadowJKmaybe01:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: can't you add at least a link to it, to http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter01:32
DocScrutinizer?01:32
ShadowJKI'd rather not01:33
DocScrutinizerOr I do if you don't mind01:33
DocScrutinizerhmm, why?01:33
ShadowJKI think I'd want to expand SpeedEvil's script to include network packets :)01:33
MNZ51there's also SpeedEvil's power drain script01:33
ShadowJKthen it'd be like 10X more useful for power debugging01:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I have a sort of proto-script that tries tocap _everything_01:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: But it's not finished.01:34
SpeedEvilAnd meh.01:34
DocScrutinizeryeah, nice. But a plain script to read out FULL info from bq27200 and nothing else, would be nice as well01:34
GNUtoo|laptopDocScrutinizer, does that ring a bell: http://pastebin.com/6dFgLE9f ?01:35
GNUtoo|laptophi btw01:35
GNUtoo|laptopthe kernel doesn't compile01:35
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, also if it's not published anywhere public I don't need to finish it ;D01:35
DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: sorry, but no01:35
ShadowJKbut go ahead if you want to01:36
GNUtoo|laptopok01:36
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felipecGNUtoo|laptop: which kernel triggered that?01:37
GNUtoo|laptopthe official one I bet:01:37
GNUtoo|laptophttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/01:37
GNUtoo|laptopthe last one01:37
GNUtoo|laptopand a previous one too01:37
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: weird, I've compiled the internal kernel many times01:38
GNUtoo|laptopah ok01:38
GNUtoo|laptopmaybe wrong defconfig01:38
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GNUtoo|laptopI took the rx51 one in arm/defconfig01:38
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: can I just take kernel_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz or do I need to do something else?01:39
GNUtoo|laptopyou need the maemo patches01:39
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GNUtoo|laptopmaybe I'll try manually01:39
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: kernel_2.6.28-20101501+0m5.diff.gz ?01:40
GNUtoo|laptopyes01:40
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, here's my unfinished always-running charge script conversion, filled with dead code and pointless crap, haven't cleaned it up yet after converting it to always-on: http://pastebin.com/m4uMMRgm01:41
ShadowJKThere's some lines of SpeedEvil and you surviving in there still ;p01:41
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ShadowJKI guess I should make it query bq27200 directly too instead of examining the logfile of my bq27200 script ;D01:42
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: is enivax.net down?01:42
ShadowJKnope, but the dns likes to die01:42
ShadowJKmy current bq27200 script, taken right off of my device just now http://pastebin.com/bPiqjzVa01:43
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felipecwhoa... I just want to calculate battery drain to compare different codecs01:44
ShadowJKlol01:45
SpeedEvilThe one from the power page is probably sanest for that felipec :)01:47
MNZ51felipec, you are talking about gstreamer codecs right?01:48
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ShadowJKAlthough for long term comparison you might want to compare NAC01:49
felipecMNZ51: more like FFmpeg codecs through GStreamer API :)01:49
felipecwhat does i2cget -y 2 0x55 0x14 w do?01:49
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ShadowJKIt sends a request on i2cbus 2, to address 0x55, requesting to read the Word size register 0x1401:50
ShadowJK.. which is the average current register01:50
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ShadowJK0x55 on i2c bus 2 is the battery meter01:50
DocScrutinizeraka bq2720001:50
felipecok, so it doesn't matter how often you use it01:50
MNZ51felipec, you will find that most codecs will drain much less power through the default gstreamer pipeline01:51
DocScrutinizernope, not for anything important. Though each run will use a bit of power01:51
MNZ51except for ogg01:51
ShadowJKthere are no registers with side effects in bq2720001:51
MNZ51and potentially mp3 might be better on ffmpeg.01:52
SpeedEvilfelipe: It only updates evety 5.12s01:52
felipecMNZ51: I locked the frequence, and top showed significantly better performance... but what do you mean by "default pipeline"?01:53
ShadowJKoffline mode and screen off is almost a requirement to do accurate measurements since ambient light conditions and the contents on the screen will affect backlight power level...01:53
ShadowJKI wouldn't find it inplausible if ffmp3 was better than the default mp3 decoder :)01:54
SpeedEvilhttps://datatype.helixcommunity.org/Mp3dec01:54
SpeedEvilalso01:54
SpeedEvilfelipe: top lies.01:54
SpeedEvilfelipe: It doesn't know about cpufreq01:54
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, he said he locked frequency ;)01:54
SpeedEvilfelipe: 10%@600MHz may use more power than 50%@250MHz01:54
ShadowJKcpuidle effects are probably interesting too...01:55
MNZ51felipec, most video decoding is done on the DSP (separate processor)01:55
felipecSpeedEvil: I'm aware of that :) I work in Nokia and I've done many CPU measurements01:55
SpeedEvilk01:55
SpeedEvilThrere are all sorts of wackos here. :)01:56
ShadowJKhm, I should convert my script to use "i2cget" instead of "./i2cget"01:56
felipecMNZ51: yeah, I know, I wrote gst-dsp :)01:56
felipecbut I'm working on gst-av now, to get decent audio decoding with FFmpeg01:56
MNZ51!!01:56
SpeedEvil:)01:56
SpeedEvilAwesome.01:56
MNZ51maemo  is not abandoned!!01:56
ShadowJKfelipec, I take it you saw tkulve's vorbis vs mp3 battery benchmarks? :-)01:57
ShadowJK(they're ancient)01:57
DocScrutinizerbut still interesting01:57
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felipecShadowJK: yes, I helped him a bit... gst-av is mentioned there01:58
StskeepsMNZ51: gst-dsp is a pretty universal omap3 component, even on angstrom or other linux OS'es.01:58
felipeche said he wanted to switch to it, but apparently he's been to busy lately01:58
SpeedEvilI'm unsure if the DMA unit is smart enough and lower power than the CPU core that it can decode 1s@600MHz say, then drop it to the codec with the CPU off01:58
ShadowJKnot sure if I've ever seen C4 during audio playback, but I've atleast seen C3, iirc..01:59
MNZ51stskeeps I was unaware of that01:59
StskeepsMNZ51: we naturally have it in meego/n900 too (but not yet active for various legal reasons)01:59
lcuk"<MNZ51> maemo  is not abandoned!!"  << you have been helping yourself, of course its not!02:00
MNZ51have you guys seen/tested gstreamer_ti??02:01
felipecShadowJK: but I want to measure libvorbis vs ffvorbis, libflac vs ffflac, and nokiamp3dec vs ffmp3: I definitely don't want to run the tests until the device runs out of battery =/02:01
MNZ51lcuk indeed :)02:01
lcukMNZ51, speaking of which, how is the hardware EQ looking?02:01
MNZ51lcuk I just got all the kernel parts working right today morning02:02
ShadowJKfelipec, ok check if you can get repeatable and sensible results with SpeedEvil's script.. If not, we'll have to read the NAC register instead02:02
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lcukawesome!02:02
felipecShadikka: you mean the Powerscript?02:02
MNZ51lcuk now need to dig into ways of integrating into the UI02:03
ShadowJKbq27200 integrates current-in and current-out measurements into NAC, so it's better suited for longer than 5 second measurements :P02:03
ShadowJKfelipec, yeah the one on the wiki02:03
SpeedEvilfelipe: the script I wrote above I've never seen it give measurements that seem inaccurate.02:03
SpeedEvilI need to put a scope on the battery, but it seems consistent.02:03
lcukMNZ51, of course!02:03
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, no I mean current consumption varies alot for me as-is, that it might be difficult to see the "big picture" from several 5 second readings02:04
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felipecGNUtoo|laptop: I'm seeing the same compiler error... let me diff with the internal repo02:05
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GNUtoo|laptopfelipec, ok thanks a lot !!!02:05
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: why should it be inconsistent? It's just not appropriate for long time average evaluations02:06
DocScrutinizerfelipec: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter#Software02:06
SpeedEvilI just postprocess it.02:06
DocScrutinizerhas pointer to ShadowJK script now, which also offers long term NAC mAh values from bq2720002:07
SpeedEvilawk to average over 30s, 60s, ...02:07
SpeedEvilNAC is in rartehr big units02:07
SpeedEvilIt's hard to get equivalent accuracy to simply adding the instant readings unless you have a long baseline.02:08
MNZfelipec, have you evaluated TI's own gstreamer plugin for decoding over the DSP before?02:08
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I'd rather say postprocessing introduces an ever rising error, while NAC is always quite accurate02:09
ShadowJKbut more granular.. nothing is perfect :)02:10
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Sure.02:10
DocScrutinizerof course within limits of resolution02:10
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the absolute error in the NAC reading is quite high though02:10
felipecShadowJK: well, I'm running an ffmp3 test, and it seems to revolve around 60mA, however, when I go to offline mode it bumps to 200mA02:10
felipecI think that's the bug Igor was talking about02:10
ShadowJKis that without sim?02:10
SpeedEvilfelipe: it's unplugged from the charger?02:11
ShadowJK(and usb)02:11
felipecMNZ: I really dislike that software stack: gst-ti -> codec-engine -> dmai -> dsp-link02:11
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felipecMNZ: plus dsp-link needs *a lot* of reorganization that already happened in dsp-bridge02:12
felipecI think I tried to compile it once... I gave up02:12
MNZfelipec, same here02:12
MNZafter a 1.6gb download and 2 wasted days02:12
DocScrutinizerthe only correct way to get precise values is having a local logfile, device not connected to USB, not registered to GSM and WLAN, and issueing an initial sleep 120, during which you need to switch off screen02:13
felipecMNZ: gst-dsp -> dsp-bridge, that's way easier, plus dsp-bridge is now upstream (on staging), and TI has a small package for the binaries, just put them on /lib/dsp, and you are good to go :)02:14
pigeonanyone knows which tweeter client is supposed to work now?02:14
DocScrutinizerthen playback same media file for some 10min, and stop and read out bq27200 NAC02:14
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DocScrutinizermake sure you have volume set to 1 step above mute, and preferably wired headset plugged in02:15
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felipecpigeon: you want to post messages only, or see your friend updates and so on?02:16
pigeonboth, just that both witter and tweego won't login anymore.02:17
pigeonyou know, those oauth changes and stuff.02:17
lcukpigeon, for now I believe Khweeteur02:18
felipecDocScrutinizer: yes, I know all those tricks to get good measurements, except that I was using the Nokia internal tool02:18
lcukbut its very -dev02:18
lcukKhertan_ has been developing it02:18
lcukand it works with the oauth stuff02:18
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felipecDocScrutinizer: so how do I read the NAC?02:19
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SpeedEvilStupid internets.02:19
felipecDocScrutinizer: but here GSM off actually seems to affect negatively02:19
SpeedEvilfelipe: I missed the answer - you are unplugged?02:19
SpeedEvilBecause that's very odd.02:20
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DocScrutinizerfelipec: (read NAC) see bottom of http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter#Software. (GSM off negative) that's REALLY odd02:20
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: it seems some files are missing02:21
GNUtoo|laptopah ok02:21
DocScrutinizerfelipec: (GSM) what exactly means "GSM off"?02:22
MNZquick question, is there any particular reason why we can't run audio decoding algorithms on the DSP?02:22
felipecDocScrutinizer: not in offline mode02:22
SpeedEvilMNZ: The DSP is a seperate functional unit.02:22
SpeedEvilMNZ: Waking it up is not free.02:22
DocScrutinizerfelipec: so what else if not in offline mode?02:22
SpeedEvilfelipe: by not GSM do you mean locked to 3g?02:23
felipecMNZ: it _can_ be done... it's just that NEON is good enough02:23
GNUtoo|laptopfelipec, will there be a new release?02:23
DocScrutinizerfelipec: actually offline mode is mandatory02:23
MNZSpeedEvil, sp decoding, say, a 4 minute mp3 file is not really worth the hassle?02:23
SpeedEvilfelipe: because 3G uses stupid power02:23
GNUtoo|laptopof the kernel sources02:23
SpeedEvilMNZ: I would say that in principle working out how to fastest possible decode - say - 1M of audio to raw is a net win. Then you go to sleep, and just throw that out via DMA02:24
SpeedEvilMNZ: I'm unsure.02:24
felipecMNZ: it might be that just passing audio buffers around consumes more CPU than the whole decoding on NEON, it's hard to tell, maybe not if it's properly implemented, but at least the numbers I saw with OpenMAX IL were pretty bad02:24
DocScrutinizerfelipec: nota bene a missing SIM does *not* mean cellmo is off. Au contraire it eats probably vast amounts of power searching for all available carriers to possibly issue a 911 call02:25
SpeedEvilIf you're simply dribbling data out at a low rate from the DSP it's probably a clear lose.02:25
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: well, you should file a bug, but I can provide the files to you... just let me try and see if they really fix the problem02:25
SpeedEvilIt's only a win if you're decoding 'massive' chunks of data at once.02:25
GNUtoo|laptopfelipec, ok thanks02:25
SpeedEvilThere is also the question if the DMA unit can be awake with the sound serial unit, with the rest of the CPU asleep.02:27
SpeedEvilI think it can - but I need to read the datasheet a bit more.02:27
felipecSpeedEvil: I'm not sure what you mean by DMA unit, but I think the biggest factor is the fact that audio data must come back to ARM side in order for pulseaudio to process it02:28
SpeedEvilfelipe: I'm ignoring pulseaudio for the moment.02:28
MNZfelipec, speaking of pulseaudio.......02:28
SpeedEvilI'm considering what the absolute minimum power to play mp3 is that the hardware can do.02:29
MNZAIUI the DSP can be programmed to pipe data directly to the codec chip for output..?02:29
SpeedEvilMNZ: I don't think that's quite how it works.02:29
MNZwith the right connections in the HW of course, unless I'm missing something else02:30
felipecSpeedEvil: MNZ: yes, the DSP can output audio directly02:30
SpeedEvilAh - K.02:30
SpeedEvilI've not read it in detail.02:30
felipecbut that doesn't fit Maemo architecture02:30
pigeonah, wait, i spoke too soon, witter works, i just need to blow away my old config, and configure oauth stuff in the settings.02:30
lcukno volume control etc?02:30
MNZfelipec, I kinda want to bypass the whole PA fiasco02:30
MNZlcuk, volume control can be done by the audio codec02:31
GNUtoo|laptopabout audio and pulseaudio etc...I bet the pulse plugin does something special to get rid of the buffer underruns02:31
lcukMNZ, but that opens up whole ball of other stuff02:31
MNZyeah, like stopping playback when a call comes in...02:31
lcukdoesnt the audio have to have channels managed and switch to higher priority tasks etc02:31
* lcuk nods02:31
SpeedEvilAt least in principle, pulseaudio is open. So you can find out the calls it makes simply.02:32
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SpeedEvilHowever - pulling out pulseaudio will break calls02:32
lcukthats an awful lot02:32
SpeedEvilUnless I'm confused.02:32
SpeedEvilThat is phonecalls.02:32
lcukthe dsp improvement would have to be pretty drastic at this point02:32
felipeclcuk: no cheap speakers exploding protection :)02:32
* ShadowJK discovered today that stopping ohmd makes calls come through speakers instead of earphone :D02:32
SpeedEvilfelipe: there is a IIR filter in the codec02:32
MNZfelipec, I'm kinda working on a solution to that :D02:32
SpeedEvilfelipe: that works fine.02:32
lcukfelipec, yeah, that too02:33
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* lcuk has exploded ears atm02:33
MNZthere are two filters actually02:33
* lcuk would like to use dsp as a blitter one day :P02:33
MNZhehe02:33
lcukespecially on 8x002:33
felipecMNZ: the hardware supports it... but I'm not sure how maemo sw might interfere02:33
pigeonand i'll try Khweeteur too02:33
lcukpigeon, as I said Khertan_ is working hard and responding to things02:34
lcukso if you do try it, discuss with him and help improve it with him02:34
MNZfelipec, I'm improving the audio codec's driver right now, and I've got the IIR filter and 3D effects working so far.02:34
SpeedEvil:)02:34
MNZany hints on where to look if we are to pass data from dsp to audio codec directly?02:34
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lcukgive it to PA :D02:35
felipecMNZ: you mean from the DSP side?02:35
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felipecMNZ: I'm not sure, TI calls that DASF02:36
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MNZfelipec, yeah. I would have to mess with the code that's sent to the dsp right? I'm just not sure what kind of messing around is needed02:37
pigeonlcuk: sure02:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK:(charging script) nice :-). Would you like me to edit a few things?02:37
SpeedEvilMNZ: yes - you'd need to code stuff on the DSP02:37
MNZSpeedEvil, the question is more like do I have to reimplement the codec driver?02:38
SpeedEvildunno02:38
felipecMNZ: I haven't touched much DSP side code =/02:38
lcukmnz, the dsp is scary and few who venture into it ever come out alive!02:38
lcukit changes them.02:38
MNZlcuk, I know that now :/02:38
SpeedEvilI don't know if you can do 'pipes' onthe DSP02:38
SpeedEvilthat is - redirect the 'normal' output and do stuff with it02:39
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, my TODO list is something like: move low battery detection and warning from bq27200.sh to charge.sh, add the LED notification back in, handle error codes, check parameters after error codes02:39
felipecSpeedEvil: yes, it's possible02:39
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (exploded ears) testing codecs via headset? or your son screaming?02:39
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SpeedEvilInteresting.02:39
MNZso any pointers on where I should start reading would be greatly appreciated :D02:40
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felipecMNZ: I think you should ask in #linux-omap, or the mailing list02:40
lcukDocScrutinizer, burst eardrum a few weeks ago. i yawned and it (re)ruptured it.02:40
felipecor #beagle02:40
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yes, along that line. Also a few flws are there I'd like to fix02:40
lcuk(had an infection in 2006)02:40
SpeedEvilI vaguely remember someone here was playing with DSP02:40
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: FSCK! :-/02:40
lcukthats what I said02:40
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, like?02:41
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lcukalong with many other strong words02:41
DocScrutinizersleep 2802:41
DocScrutinizeris too long02:41
lcukSpeedEvil, lardman02:41
SpeedEvilpossibly02:41
DocScrutinizerhas to become sleep 1502:41
SpeedEvilyes02:41
lcukdoing the bluetooth stuff on 8x002:41
ShadowJKApart from programming it for mugen2400 and ignoring USB cable to host PC scenario entirely02:41
DocScrutinizerovewrtemp throttle has some niche cases where it actually is doing worse than better02:42
DocScrutinizeralso seems to me you're reading out bq27200 die temp rather than battery cell thermistor02:42
ShadowJKYeah I don't know how to read it yet02:42
SpeedEvilthere is no thermistor02:42
SpeedEviloh02:42
SpeedEvilyes - on the mugen there is02:43
ShadowJKthere's one near the battery, in N90002:43
SpeedEvilbut...02:43
DocScrutinizerthere is02:43
SpeedEvilThere is?02:43
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ShadowJKyeah it's connected to gaia madc iirc02:43
SpeedEvilhmm02:43
DocScrutinizersearch schematics, next to twl403002:43
SpeedEvilI thought that was mislabeled02:43
DocScrutinizerShadSEC: EXACTLY02:43
ShadowJKtab tab tab tab...02:43
SpeedEvilAnd it was actually the capacirty indication wire on the battery02:43
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, there are two02:44
SpeedEvilAh.02:44
DocScrutinizersorry capsmock02:44
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ShadowJKtwo battery related things (well, atleast 2) connected to madc.. BSI to capacity indication thingy inside battery, and another to some thermistor that's close to the battery02:44
SpeedEvilHmm.02:45
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: actually, no, the files are not missing... I'm getting the same error on the internal repo =/02:45
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ShadowJKi think the thermistor is one of the exposed components in the battery bay..02:45
ShadowJKi looked up the exact location once but I forget..02:45
DocScrutinizerI had no luck locating it02:45
GNUtoo|laptopfelipec, ah ok, so how come the kernel shipped compiled?02:45
GNUtoo|laptopis there some workarround?02:45
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DocScrutinizerbut I guess it shall be in thermal junction to the metallic bay02:46
SpeedEvilIs it exposed?02:46
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: it probably depends on the compiler, I remember someone from Google fixed that... let me look for the patch02:46
GNUtoo|laptopok thanks a lot!!!02:46
SpeedEvillshal doesn't say anyrthing obvious on temp.02:46
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps once asked my what to ask Nokia about charging, and a told him (among other things) we need to know what values we expect to read from bat temp ADC, when to sgut down for overtemp. Alas no results of all that yet02:47
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, It looked like a surface mounted rectangle like any other to me ;P02:48
SpeedEvilhow much further is bq* ?02:49
ShadowJKmadc has open source driver though, and we can empirically figure out what the numbers mean, right?02:49
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: but maybe it has a level or spring touching it, from metal bat bay02:49
ShadowJKhm02:49
SpeedEvilIs bq27200 round the back off the contacts - I forget02:49
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DocScrutinizerbtemp R1310, twl4030 ADCIN002:51
DocScrutinizerBattery temperature sensor02:51
SpeedEvilHmm.02:52
SpeedEvilBME was polling madc wasn't it02:52
DocScrutinizeryup02:52
DocScrutinizerafaik02:52
felipecGNUtoo|laptop: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.omap/2846102:52
GNUtoo|laptopthanks a lot02:53
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: anyway when battery signals overtemp during *actually* DIScharging (according to bq27200), you MUST NOT throttle charger02:54
DocScrutinizer~211902:54
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.02:54
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yeah I just added it for my own use case02:55
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: seems bme is wrong on that detail as well02:55
SpeedEvilOr possibly just power off02:55
ShadowJKWhere dropping to 550 brings current as reported by bq27200 to around 002:56
felipecDocScrutinizer: yeah, but I notice that when I go to offline mode, the consumption goes up to 200mA02:56
ShadowJKfelipec, is that with a sim card or without? Is wlan0 interface up? There's a bug that leaves it up occasionally, eating about 200 or so..02:57
DocScrutinizerbq24150 charging + bq27200 DIScharging = high system load, "Not enough power for charging!". DO NOT switch off charging, not even on high temp. On critical overtemp start to throttle system load instead02:57
DocScrutinizerfelipec: that's really freakin weird02:57
ShadowJKYou know, with the charger chip's 70-90% efficiency, and the 130-ish mOhm of resistance between charger and battery, and the mugen battery's lower internal resistance, there might be less heat generation with charger fully off :P02:58
felipecShadowJK: with a sim card; normal mode, 3G, wlan + audio playback I get ~60mA. offline mode + audio playback, I get 200mA02:58
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: nonono, you need to throttle system load. Then system power consumption will drop, and temperature will drop, and battery will resume to charge as bq24150 is delivering sufficient power to supply systen *and* charge battery. If temp still too high then, your normal charge trottling will kick in as now battery is not DIScharging any more. Charge trottling will cause battery to discharge again, causing further system load throttling.03:04
DocScrutinizer.. this continues until temperature is going down to a reasonable level03:04
MNZfelipec, do you have any insider information on PA? Is it only needed for speaker protection and audio prioritizing (calls mute other audio, etc) ? or is there more to it?03:09
MNZ(insider information that can be shared, ie :)03:09
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felipecMNZ: I don't think there's anything internal about it, Jyri Sarha did a presentation about it03:11
felipechttp://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf03:11
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MNZfelipec, yes, I've seen the slides and they're rather vague. And if there's nothing internal... why no sources?03:11
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: for this to work properly, you should differentiate the temperature reading, ans also delay the charge throttling by some 30..60s, so when you throttle system load, you give cell temp some 30s time to idicate it "plans to drop", and not start charge throttling if temp is on its way down03:12
felipecMNZ: pulseaudio is used for many reasons, good latency control, protection of the speakers, audio policy, mixing03:13
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felipecvolume03:13
ShadowJKpeople hate it though when it eats 30% CPU and they could be using that for something else :)03:14
MNZfelipec, all that can be managed without PA. It's only the audio policy that might be tricky, but DocScrutinizer says he's got an answer in the form of an alsa plugin :D03:15
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DocScrutinizermixing: ALSA dmix. latency control: we don't need that, and actually latency with PA is usually even higher than with mere ALSA. Protection of speakers: could have been implemented as a ALSA plugin as well. Audio policy: well I elaborated on that some 23h ago, in this chan.03:15
ShadowJKoh dear god, alsa plugins.. I thought they invented pulseaudio just because alsa plugins were undebugable and unfixable ;P03:15
felipecDocScrutinizer: I don't recall the issues with ALSA dmix, but there certainly were03:16
ShadowJKI've never seen dmix working yet :/03:17
DocScrutinizermhm, not here. I got severe issues with PA mixing instead03:17
felipecDocScrutinizer: and no, the algorithms are proprietary from Nokia, the couldn't be implemented as ALSA plugins without violating the licence, or something like that03:17
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I've never seen it failing03:17
DocScrutinizerLOL03:17
MNZShadowJK, alsa on most systems is running dmix by default as they can't do multiple streams natively, AIUI03:18
DocScrutinizerso we use PA as Nokia doesn't like the licence of ALSA, and also doesn't think it could disclose the code of those 'magic' plugins. Now that's what I call reasonable03:18
ShadowJKMNZ, i think they moved to having pulse open alsa hw direct because dmix was too buggy? ;p03:18
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DocScrutinizerdmix never was buggy, as long as I know about it03:19
MNZShadowJK, I'm on debian right now and they have a deep rooted hate for PA. Audio works like a charm. I can actually do mp3 at close to 1% cpu on my core 2 duo03:19
felipecDocScrutinizer: what do you expect? Nokia to spend a huge amount of money rewriting some internal code that is considered a competitive advantage into something open-source friendly?03:20
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe?03:21
MNZok so there IS some internal stuff, felipec ?03:21
felipecDocScrutinizer: we would be releasing the N900 right now if everything had to be perfect03:21
ShadowJK:)03:21
SpeedEvilfelipe: can you elaborate on what the closed code is for in the audio chain?03:22
DocScrutinizersorry, but that's no argument03:22
MNZjust how much of a competitive advantage though :/ I mean audio mixing and policy??03:22
felipecSpeedEvil: you mean in PA chain?03:22
derfI suspect they more mean acoustic echo cancellation and speech pre/post processing.03:22
SpeedEvilfelipe: yes03:22
DocScrutinizersorry, nothing personal, but I feel I'm building up a mood to argue. So I prefer to part this convo for a while, chilling...03:23
MNZhaha cheers doc :)03:24
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felipecSpeedEvil: I don't recall all the details, but there were quite a lot; echo cancellation, equalizer, speaker protection03:27
SpeedEvilhmm. The PDF I saw on the PA phone interface strongly implied that the phone module did all of that.03:28
SpeedEvilthe echo that is.03:28
SpeedEvilThanks.03:28
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felipecSpeedEvil: no, the phone chip is doing some stuff, but I don't recall exactly what03:29
felipecfortunately PA seems to have it's own echo cancellation nowadays :)03:30
SpeedEvilyeah.03:30
derfWhose code is that?03:30
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felipecderf: I don't know, I've seem some patches from Wim Tayman, from GStreamer/Collabora03:32
derfJust wondering if they're based on the Speex one, or something else.03:33
SpeedEvilHmm. I wonder if the echo cancellation is for skype03:33
SpeedEvil /sip03:33
derfSkype does their own.03:33
MNZso it seems it will not be possible to rip out PA completely because of the closed source stuff depending on it (ie, phone functionality). But for media purposes it looks quite possible to replace PA completely (as far as the info we have goes...)03:34
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SpeedEvilI'm unsure.03:35
derfYes, PA is using the Speex one.03:35
derfFound the patch.03:35
SpeedEvilI think it's possible.03:35
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MNZAFAICT everything's pretty much covered. Anywho, I'll find that out soon enough :D03:37
SpeedEvilGreat work MNZ03:37
MNZ:)03:38
MNZWhich reminds me... anyone willing to do a quick parametric EQ UI for maemo :/ ??? pretty please?03:39
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lcukMNZ, you have to give more info about the available data :)03:42
felipecthe NAC says 10mAh are consumed each 10min03:42
lcukie format, frequency etc03:42
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ShadowJKfelipec, so that's 60mA03:43
ShadowJKBut like, the precision is only good enough for +- 10% :)03:43
MNZlcuk, I just want an empty shell really... sliders for bandwidth and center frequency and gain, and a selector for filter type. The difficult part (I think) is in figuring out how to integrate this into hildon the Right Way(tm)03:44
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lcukyou can use kitchen scales to accurately determine the weight of a single penny03:44
lcukif you do enough samples with multiples of them :P03:45
felipecShadowJK: well, that matches the AI Average03:45
lcukMNZ, right so you want the input side of it03:45
lcuknot the graphical output03:45
SpeedEvillcuk: Or you are a geek. And your kitchen scales weigh to 0.1g03:45
SpeedEvilhttp://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1748303:46
lcukSpeedEvil, i actually meant bathroom scales03:46
* lcuk is tired03:46
smhargreetings03:46
MNZlcuk, heck if you can graph the curves then all the better :P but yeah the plan was just to have a basic UI as opposed to no ui at all03:46
lcukand I once did it using a lovely pile of pennies03:46
SpeedEvilI have contemplated refitting my bathroom scales with 18 bit ADCs03:46
lcukMNZ, specifically different ends of the spectrum literally03:46
lcukbut something that it would have to do is like a real eq03:47
lcuka single swipe across all the inputs should set the levels of each03:47
MNZlcuk, I'm afraid you lost me03:48
ShadowJKfelipec, getting any usable comparison data btw?03:48
lcukwell if you have a 10 bar EQ - 10 sliders.  you dont want to need to click change each03:48
lcukyou want to be able to run finger horizontally across all03:48
lcukin one swipe03:48
smharI have a small home network. I can connect to it wirelessly using the N900 and I can access the internet to read emails/browse/install applications ..etc . the problem is: although I can ping my router -and browse its admin page- from N900, I can not ping or access my dreambox . any tips?03:49
lcukwhat is your dreambox?03:49
SpeedEvilI guess it's like a dreamcatcher.03:49
SpeedEvilIs it made by indians?03:49
ShadowJKThere's like a PMP/DVR thingy called "dreambox".03:49
ShadowJKi think03:50
MNZlcuk, thing is, it's not a graphical EQ really, mostly because I haven't figured out how to (if it's possible) go from a graphical eq to parameters for a parametric eq (which is closer to what we have)03:50
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nox-ShadowJK is right (i have one too :)03:50
smharoh... sorry. dreambox is my TV satellite receiver -linux based- which is connected to my router using LAN03:51
lcuksmhar, can other devices on your network happily ping or access it?03:51
lcukon your wifi network03:51
nox-can you ping other boxen on your lan from n900?03:51
felipecShadowJK: not yet, now that I know I can get some relatively good number I'll start gathering data for gst-av, and then the alternatives03:52
ShadowJKok :)03:52
smharthe N900 is the only device accessing the network through wifi, the rest all all in LAN using ethernet03:52
SpeedEvilsmhar: you should look at your router config03:52
smharan I can ping/telnet to DB from all the other computers.03:52
lcuksmhar, then I would suggest trying something else on the wifi03:52
lcukand look towards problem being router config03:53
ShadowJKcan you ping your other devices, not counting router?03:53
SpeedEvilsmhar: the router is probably not setup to bridge the two nets03:53
MNZI must get some eye shut time... good night #maemo!03:53
lcuknn MNZ \o03:53
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smharyes. I can ping my other computers from N90003:54
nox-huh03:54
ShadowJK:/03:54
nox-checked packet filter rules on the router?03:55
smharno, will try that03:57
smharok, I tried something else: I pinged N900 from other computers: it worked. I tried pinging DB from other computers: it failed !!03:58
smharprobably the DB does not accept pinging03:59
smhar?03:59
nox-oh03:59
nox-can the n900 get to the dreambox' httpd?03:59
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nox-(and btw mine doesnt block pings tho its also an old one, dm7000)04:00
smharnox-, mine is dm7000 :-)04:01
nox-hm04:01
nox-which firmware do you use?04:01
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nox-anyway try pointing a browser at it04:01
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smharI do not remember.. its been a while since I last updated it, it uses the gemini04:02
nox-ah04:02
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DocScrutinizerk, 9h on WLAN with xchat on 7 chan: bq27k says bat=85%, lshal aka bme says 75%04:06
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smharstupid me . the network cable to the DB was disconnected, probably my 1yr old son :-)   I can ping DB from N900 now04:10
nox-aah :)04:10
nox-now you can try dreamremote :)04:11
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DocScrutinizerfirst level help desk rules: 1. question - is your device plugged into mains?04:11
nox-hehe04:12
SpeedEvil2. Should it be?04:13
SpeedEvil3. Has it burst into flames?04:13
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smharnox-, did you try DreamRemote? is it working with your DB7000?04:14
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nox-no my firmware is too old...04:15
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smharnox-, why not updating it?!04:17
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nox-you know the old saying `if it aint broke dont fix it'? :)04:18
sevarduf it ain't broke it needs more custom feature patches04:19
nox-(actually i read about `boot problems' on dm7000 with newer fw...)04:19
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nox-..and then i just dont felt like messing with it :)04:19
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ShadSECAnyone knows what else is playing with wlan connections besides wlancond?04:23
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SpeedEvilicd04:24
SpeedEvilicd2 even04:24
ShadSECand why I can connect to a wlan from commandline but not doing the same when wlancond is stopped, that is whats driving me crazy04:24
SpeedEvilThe closedpartrs are really annoying in this case.04:26
ShadSECSpeedEvil, you say to me?04:26
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SpeedEvilyes04:27
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SpeedEvilThe interactions of icd and wlancond are not transparent04:27
ShadSECnever heard about icd2, doing some reasing thanks :)04:27
SpeedEvilAnd inmany cases get inthe way04:28
bef0rdHey, is it possible to restore Nokia files from the built in emmc? I formatted it by accident :P04:28
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ShadSECand is there any steps to free wlan from their interaction while I am managing it?04:28
ShadSECi mean, any steps already documented i could follow, i dont seem to find anything about it04:28
SpeedEvilNo public way04:28
SpeedEvilIt's a closed sourcethingy04:29
ShadSECurgh04:29
SpeedEvilI want to tether over wifi.04:29
ShadSECSo, basically, i cant FREELY manage wlan without some process messing it?04:29
SpeedEvilAnd it gets in the way trhere.04:29
SpeedEvilAs I understand it, yes, you can't.04:29
ShadSECmadness :S04:30
SpeedEvilYou can kill wlancond and icd - but obvious problems then happen04:30
ShadSECwlancondd i thought everything was ok, until i noticed then something is missing for everything to work alright04:30
ShadSECgezz, i lost all past night thinking it was my fault04:31
SpeedEvilWhat are you trying to do?04:32
ShadSECat this time, i am porting one program i made some years ago for running on openwrt04:32
ShadSECsimilar to airoscript04:33
SpeedEvilwhat's it do?04:33
ShadSECdo you know airoscript?04:34
SpeedEvilNo.04:35
ShadSECoh ok, anyway, its not the same...04:36
ShadSECits the part where i need to setup a regular connection to an ap where it is giving trouble04:36
ShadSECit only associates if wlancond is running04:37
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ShadSECbut then it just steps into when it feels like04:37
ShadSECwlancond or whatever is messing with my setup04:37
SpeedEvilyeah. :/04:37
SpeedEvilyou have iwconfig?04:38
SpeedEviland friends04:38
ShadSECyep04:38
ShadSECits what i am using to setup it up04:38
ShadSECthe problem is whatever is messing with my connection afterwards04:38
ShadSECsometimes sooner, sometimes later04:38
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ShadSECwell, if I wlancond is the main offender i guess its time to strace it till death :)04:45
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nox-this any help?  http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Networking04:48
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ShadSECmmm, the disconnect internet d-bus call is interesting04:55
lolloois there a program for n900 that lets me copy text from it and then paste it on the pc?04:55
ShadSECi supposse theer are many more dbus calls not documented there, righ?04:56
nox-lolloo, you could use sshd + screen i guess...04:57
ShadSEChow have people get to know about all those dbus calls? maybe there is some source for all of them or just reverse engineering?04:57
ShadSECsource i mean, documentation or something04:58
SpeedEvilreverse engineering04:58
SpeedEvilAIUI04:58
SpeedEvilceck the authorr04:58
ShadSECor a standard.. i never heard about those dbus calls before n90004:58
SpeedEvilof the wiki04:58
ShadSECi see, so then that main source that there is for now04:59
ShadSECthats04:59
DocScrutinizerintrospection04:59
DocScrutinizerthough lots of the Nokia specific systems don't support dbus introspection05:00
lolloonox- , ssh? what is it?05:00
nox-oh is that like apple blocking tracing of itunes on osx?05:01
nox-lolloo, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openssh05:01
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lolloonox- , thanks05:02
ShadSECinteresting05:02
DocScrutinizermdbus2 might come in handy05:02
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ShadSEClolloo, there is no simple way to do that that i know of05:03
nox-well screen should support copy/paste but yes its not `that' simple :)05:04
DocScrutinizer>> mdbus2 -i drops you into a shell mode, where you can interactively explore services and call methods using readline command line completion and history.05:04
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lollooif there was a website link on my n900, and I wanted to send it to the pc.. mmm maybe I need notepad?05:08
SpeedEvilpastebinit05:10
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zokieror use some url shortener05:20
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ShadSECwlancond is NOT stepping into my setup... now lets see if it is just something missing or is it another program....05:28
ShadSECI guess this is another of the ways ppl is using to document dbus calls:05:30
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ShadSECread(4, "l\1\0\1\0\0\0\0\357\5\0\0\216\0\0\0\1\1o\0\33\0\0\0/com/nokia/wlancond/request\0\0\0\0\0\6\1s\0\22\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\32\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond.request\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\6\0\0\0status\0\0\7\1s\0\5\0\0\0:1.89\0\0\0",05:30
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ShadSEChahaha05:37
ShadSEChere it is :)05:37
ShadSECread(4, "l\1\0\1@\0\0\0M\6\0\0\266\0\0\0\1\1o\0\33\0\0\0/com/nokia/wlancond/request\0\0\0\0\0\6\1s\0\22\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\32\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond.request\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\24\0\0\0settings_and_connect\0\0\0\0\10\1g\0\17iayiiayayayayiu\0\0\0\0\7\1s\0\5\0\0\0:1.89\0\0\0\10\0\0\0\10\0\0\0fon2200\0\1\0\0\0 \0\0\0\r\0\0\0\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\1\0\0\005:37
ShadSECstrace is yer friend :P05:38
ShadSECthats the dbus call for setting up a wlan05:38
ShadSEC372/372/372... etc is the WEP key fon2200 the essid etc...05:39
zokierhttp://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-monitor.1.html might be easier than strace :)05:43
ShadSECoh05:44
ShadSECthx, i guess i need to read a lot more about that dbus thing :P05:45
ShadSECwow,this is awesome05:50
ShadSECso the "right" way to do things on n900 is through dbus?05:50
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zr0is there a decent facebook client for the n900 besides the web browser?05:56
ShadSECzokier, this this dbus-monitor adds another dimension but... it is not showing any of wlancond dbus calls i got using strace05:59
ShadSECmaybe there are calls that aren't shown or maybe i am doing anything wrong?05:59
zokierhave you monitored both session and system bus?06:01
ShadSECno i just did dbus-monitor >06:02
ShadSECthx :)06:02
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ShadSECzokier, definitely not showing up... there are some dbus calls of wlancond on --system, but not the setup wlan one...06:11
ShadSECdoes this show both requests and replys? I mean... is it all the conversation going on dbus?06:12
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Bobbeinteresting06:15
BobbeNSU is allowing to re-install 1.206:15
Bobbehave you guys been experiencing the same?06:15
zokieri think it shows replies too06:16
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Bobbe??06:16
ShadSECand is it possible some calls are made to no show up?06:17
zokieri'm not sure... it can be possible that it uses some other bus for internal calls06:18
zokiereg the wlan daemon or something runs as some different user, and it uses that users session bus06:19
zokierjust guessing here06:19
ShadSECbut it follows the same dbus format... Ill try to see what happens if I send that dbus call... when I read how to do that ...06:19
ShadSECin the straced call it identifies and wlancond06:20
ShadSECas wlancond06:20
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ShadSECjust the same as other that are showing up, but the two most interesting calls arent06:21
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RST38bisDoc: here?07:49
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RST38bisAnyway, once any of swap-interested parties awaken, check out this: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/07:53
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lolloohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYV-JSjpyU&feature=related07:54
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TermanaN900yello08:07
pupnik_hi08:11
pupnik_http://pics.nase-bohren.de/dearapple.jpg  Apple fans respond to the Ipad (nice tagline at bottom)08:14
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ilius[sbox-: ~] > sb-conf select SDK_ARMEL08:44
iliussb-conf: No such target: SDK_ARMEL08:44
iliusi don't understand this08:44
iliusplz help08:45
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Texrathey th0br009:19
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th0br0hello Texrat09:21
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kulvefelipec: pong09:45
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shadsec2is 8 the maximun in <key>wlan_tx_power</key>?10:14
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pupnik_Cell phone gang wars http://pics.nase-bohren.de/android-rowdies.png10:32
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`Francesca_Lucchhey guys10:35
`Francesca_Lucchquestion any of you know whrere i can change opera download path?10:36
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pupnik_dunno10:36
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`Francesca_Lucchi want to set a default parth10:37
`Francesca_Lucchparth10:37
`Francesca_Lucch...10:37
`Francesca_Lucchpath10:37
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pupnik_a path  a path!10:50
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plastunhello! Can anybody vote for Mnemosyne package? I need only one vote for promote it to extras )11:04
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bef0rdwhat is it11:05
plastunThis is mobile version of Mnemosyne software11:05
plastun It resembles a traditional flash-card program to help you11:05
plastun memorise question/answer pairs11:05
plastunI have version for N800 and N810 in extras, and the current version for N90011:06
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`Francesca_Lucchisnt it an anime?11:06
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`Francesca_Lucchhttp://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=553011:10
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`Francesca_Lucch>.>11:11
psycho_oreosthe name maybe related to anime but it isn't necessarily anime itself, plus the guy who wanted to promote that stuff has got his connection reset by peer :p11:11
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`Francesca_Lucchi think he took the name of the anime11:12
`Francesca_Lucchbut ok11:12
bef0rdpeer is evil11:13
psycho_oreoshe may or may not have but its irrelevant.. the name isn't trademarked or registered11:13
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bef0rdi was going to vote, not sure where I had to11:13
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psycho_oreoshe probably meant this: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mnemosyne/2.0.0~beta13~rc1/11:16
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plastunoh, yes, this is right link11:18
bef0rddone11:18
psycho_oreoso.O he's back heh11:18
plastunyes, I was disconnected (11:18
psycho_oreoswe saw11:18
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psycho_oreosand `Francesca_Lucch had a trivial question for you in regards to the name of the app11:19
plastunthank you for voting. And I have a question, if my main packet depends on addtition library, writen myself, shoul I promote this library too?11:19
bef0rdwhat's the library about?11:20
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plastunit is main mnemosyne library, called libmnemosyne11:20
plastunhttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/python-libmnemosyne/2.0.0-16~rc7/11:20
bef0rdoh, not sure, it's the first time I'm voting, I suppose it will get promoted to extras too, as a dependency11:21
achipabef0rd: plastun: no manual lib promotion - it will get pulled in11:21
plastuncool!11:21
achipa(unless someone put it in the user/* section, but that is a different story)11:21
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`Francesca_Lucchhumm where do i get python11:24
keriopython.org?11:25
keriooh, you mean in the repos11:25
`Francesca_Lucchone for maemo11:25
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`Francesca_LucchN90011:25
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psycho_oreosI saw it was available in extras-testing or maybe extras-devel11:26
`Francesca_Lucchhumm11:26
psycho_oreoshttp://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=python&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same11:27
psycho_oreoslol11:27
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`Francesca_Luccho.o11:30
`Francesca_Lucchwonder what one is for maemo511:30
psycho_oreosdepends on which one you need I suppose11:31
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psycho_oreosanyone played with kernel compiling? trying to custom compile titan's kernel with a specific version string but dpkg-buildpackage isn't doing the whole thing right11:32
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`Francesca_Lucchthe complete pack like as  on sayp11:32
`Francesca_Lucchs6011:32
kerio`Francesca_Lucch: doesn't work like that11:33
`Francesca_Luccho?11:33
kerioalso please refrain from using weird characters as the beginning of your nick, it makes it harder to tab-complete11:33
kerio"the complete pack" for python probably includes some GBs of libraries11:33
keriothere's no "complete pack"11:34
`Francesca_Lucchso11:34
dr34mmorn11:34
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`Francesca_Lucchsymbian-freak.com/downloads/freeware/cat_s60_3rd/descriptions/python/python_for_s60.htm11:36
`Francesca_Lucchthat11:36
kerioyeah, doesn't work like that11:36
keriojust install "python"11:37
kerioand then install the libraries you need11:37
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`Francesca_Lucchi see11:37
`Francesca_Lucchoh yeah how come solarwolf game dont run11:38
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`Francesca_Lucchhumm only rtill maemo411:40
`Francesca_Lucchtill*11:40
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trumeeanybody using a blueetooth mouse with N900. I need a recommendation on what mouse to buy?11:44
kerioa bluetooth one11:44
trumeekerio: yes11:46
keriono, that's my recommendation11:46
trumeekerio: all bt mouse work with N900?11:46
kerioi don't see why not11:46
`Francesca_Lucchlol11:46
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psycho_oreosproblem is why would you want a bt mouse? do you want RSI/CTS? :)12:01
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felipeckulve: I got vorbis, flac and mp3 working on gst-av, and fixed oggdemux and flacparse to work with tagreadbin, I'm trying to measure the power usage12:04
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trumeepsycho_oreos: whats wrong with bt mouse?12:09
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trumeei was going to travel soon and did not want to carry laptop with me.12:09
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psycho_oreostrumee, that issue is not related to bt mouse but mouse in general12:10
trumeeI have a bt keyboard and wanted a mouse to accompany that12:10
trumeeseems on tmo people are reporting problems pairing bt mouse.12:11
psycho_oreosN900 has touch screen12:11
trumeepsycho_oreos: yes, but bt mouse is little better to handle12:11
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trumeecheapest i have found http://www.ebuyer.com/product/16979012:12
trumeenot sure it would pair with N900 or not.12:12
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MohammadAG51Any mouse would pair, as long as it has a pair code i guess12:14
psycho_oreostrumee, better to handle till you get RSI/CTS but whatever12:14
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kulvefelipec: ok. Let me know about the results :)12:28
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felipeckulve: so far it seems to be: nokiamp3=72mAh, libvorbis=114mAh, libflac=66mAh, ffmp3/ffvorbis/ffflac=66mAh12:31
kulvefelipec: nice numbers (both the fact that vorbis is taking so little and the useful mAh measurements)12:33
kulvefelipec: uhm, why mAh? What does it mean actually..?12:34
felipecsorry, I meant mA12:35
kulvefelipec: ah, ok :)12:35
felipeckulve: here's the script I used: http://pastie.org/115344412:35
kulveI wonder how accurate that is.. Have you tried to reproduce those multiple times?12:36
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shadsec2Anyone knows the full com.nokia.wlancond methods description?12:37
felipeckulve: yes, I'm trying that now with vorbis12:38
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felipecthose numbers I just posted is by running 10min, so the accuracy is +-6mA, and I did run a few times, and they seemed to match, but not in a controlled way12:39
trumeefelipec: how can i use ffvorbis on N900?12:39
trumeefelipec: i am presently using Mediabox which uses libvorbis i think.12:40
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felipectrumee: does mediabox use GStreamer?12:40
trumeefelipec: yes it does. but presently i am using mplayer backend with it.12:41
felipeckulve: at least the mp3 measurement seems to match yours: 18.3 hours12:41
felipectrumee: mplayer uses ffmpeg as a backend, so it's only a matter of compiling ffmpeg with vorbis support12:42
trumeefelipec: Media Player (mafw?) takes too much cpu power. Mediabox (With mplayer) uses considerable less.12:42
trumeefelipec: is there any compiled binary which i can use?12:42
felipectrumee: yes, that mostly GStreamer's fault12:43
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felipectrumee: although mafw can use different backends, so somebody could write an mplayer backend12:43
felipectrumee: I can give you binaries to try for Media Player, and it might help quite a bit, but still it cannot match mplayer12:44
trumeefelipec: i am happy to use mplayer. are there any binaries for that?12:45
felipectrumee: no12:46
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felipecif you are happy with mplayer then you should suggest to the one packaging that stuff to use ffmpeg's vorbis, although my guess would be that they are already doing that12:46
trumeefelipec: are you using mafw with ffvorbis?12:46
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felipectrumee: yes, mafw -> gstreamer -> gst-av -> ffmpeg-vorbis12:47
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trumeefelipec: "although my guess would be that they are already doing that", is there a way to find that out?12:48
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felipectrumee: ask the guys that package mplayer?12:52
trumeefelipec: will do that that. can you please point where the binaries for gstreamer with ffvorbis are?12:53
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dridkHi, I want to use gst-launch from gstreamer. What Do I need to install ?12:56
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felipectrumee: http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/maemo/12:57
felipectrumee: copy libgstav.so and libgstogg.so to /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10, but that would conflict with ogg vorbis support (libgstogg.so)12:57
felipecdr34m: gstreamer0.10-tools12:58
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trumeefelipec: so libgstogg.so should be overwritten. thanks for these.13:01
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felipectrumee: they might not work, it depends if you have libavcodec13:02
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trumeefelipec: cheers. i will check that.13:03
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Zombie3SwedeMike: did you ever get IPv6 working? Found in a channel log that you had trouble with neighbour discovery, and I have the same...13:05
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SwedeMikeZombie3: it's working well now anyway.. a friend of mine had problems as well, they ended up faultfinding his NIC driver for multicast related problems13:08
SwedeMikeoh13:08
SwedeMikebah, N90013:08
SwedeMikeZombie3: no, I still don't have it working on my N900 on wifi13:08
Zombie3yikes13:08
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SwedeMikeZombie3: we got it working on 2G/3G though.13:09
Zombie3it's not even responding to ND13:09
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Zombie3multicast eh... I can check if that works on IPv413:09
SwedeMikeZombie3: no, as far as I can see, the packets are somehow not ending up in the kernel for processing, at least no response can be seen13:09
Zombie3that's what I see too13:09
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SwedeMikeZombie3: my initial response was regarding general ipv6 problems in linux, not N900 related13:10
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Zombie3oic. I remember discovering DLNA DMS's, so multicast would have worked. That's before I installed the power kernel though13:11
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Zombie3SwedeMike: it's odd that everybody seems to report that it works out of the box, and the two of us have trouble13:14
SwedeMikeZombie3: yeah.13:14
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Zombie3tcpdump sees the RA13:15
Zombie3and neighbour sollicications when I ping its LLA13:17
Zombie3yet, no response13:17
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Zombie3I compiled iproute2 for the n900, btw13:18
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Corsac_Zombie3: it's in extra-devel13:22
Corsac_I never bothered to make it go to testing though13:22
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Zombie3Corsac: it's a must-have for any networking geek. It would be useful13:25
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Shapeshifterruskie: Hey there. I'm a bit confused about how you packaged urxvt. I want to improve its handling on the n900, and for that I'd need to add some perl scripts. Usually they go into /usr/lib/urxvt/perl/ on a normal system, but it seems like you've put urxvt (the binary) into /opt/maemo/usr/bin/ but there is no /opt/maemo/usr/lib/urxvt, so where do the perl scripts go?13:44
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alteregoShapeshifter: /opt/maemo/usr/lib/urxvt is fine13:49
alteregoIf it doesn't exist just create it :P13:49
Shapeshifteralterego: mhhh. not yet working as I imagine it. :| I'm trying to do this: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/rxvt-unicode-hacking-800818/page2.html#post401371713:54
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alteregoMaybe urxvt needs to be compiled with perl support or something?13:57
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Meldiuzhi13:58
Shapeshifteralterego: mhhh. yeah seems like ruskie didn't compile it with perl support. or at least it's not in the deps.13:58
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Shapeshifterhow sad. I assume there still isn't any other terminal than X-Terminal?13:59
alteregoWell, I've not needed anything other than xterm so I've not really looked.13:59
Shapeshifterit's not even xterm.14:00
alteregoI know14:00
MeldiuzHas anyone tried to install lighttpd on the n900?14:00
Corsacconsidering it's in extra-? I guess so14:01
alteregoHeh14:01
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Shapeshifterw00t my scratchbox install still works.14:05
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alteregoHeh#14:10
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DocScrutinizerjust to let you know :-) http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Hardware/N900/Installation14:20
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: what can FSO do, and what can't it do? Does it do GSM/3G?14:22
DocScrutinizernot yet14:22
DocScrutinizerthis is just one week old I'd guess14:22
Shapeshifter;)14:23
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alteregoHrm, an RC for the Qt SDK14:31
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IcanCUi want to make an application that will switch off 3g when the screen baclight times out14:40
IcanCUdoes such an app already exist?14:40
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: but FSO has a holistic approach, integrating ALL subsystems into a nice middleware (eventually, when finished). So no more eleventy different APIs for e.g. liblocation, WLAN mgmnt, phonecalls, mce blinkenlights, screendimming...14:40
psycho_oreossorta, its called autodisconnect14:40
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DocScrutinizerIcanCU: although such an app is vastly useless14:41
pigeon_is there a way to disable the power kernel and use the normal one without uninstalling it?14:42
IcanCUwhy would it be DocScrutinizer14:42
DocScrutinizeryou usually do NOT want to "switch off 3G", as it's very expensive to switch on again, and almost for free to keep it established14:42
IcanCUexpensive in terms of battery?14:43
DocScrutinizeryou maybe want to tear down local routing, so no more outbound packets go to 3G14:43
DocScrutinizeryep, in terms of battery14:43
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IcanCUah i see14:43
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DocScrutinizerit's not 3G that sucks battery, it's actual data over 3G that does14:44
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kerioyeah but having an open connection will lead to exchanged data14:44
DocScrutinizerof course if you got a criminal dataplan that's billed by time, you maybe want to do such thing nevertheless14:45
DocScrutinizerkerio: that depends on your local management of apps14:45
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keriothe facebook widget will refresh once in a while14:45
SwedeMikewhat one wants to have is to have all apps sync so they communicate at the same time14:46
DocScrutinizerkerio: if you can't teach your apps to behave, then it's a stupid approach to tear down whole 3G instead14:46
SwedeMikeonce every five minutes, wake up the 3G from idle and do their things, then go down in idle again.14:46
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DocScrutinizerkerio: it shouldn't. It only should do this when screen unblanked, and facebook applet visible14:46
keriooh, makes sense14:46
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DocScrutinizergenerally you can't fix a broken-by-design app by changing the way connectivity works. At least not when you take such a brute-force approach14:48
DocScrutinizerif facebook app actually does behave like that, it never must go into extras, it needs downvote for that14:49
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alteregoSo quiet today.14:52
alteregoProbably because the weather is so very nice outside :)14:52
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PontusOhmanAnyone tried dual sim with success?15:27
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lcukPontusOhman, hmm15:32
lcukdo dual sims even fit?15:32
kerioif you shove them in, sure15:33
BluesLeehey15:33
BluesLeei bought one yesterday15:33
kerioi bet you can fit like 715:34
BluesLeelcuk: this one for the beloved iphone fits perfectly http://www.eurodualsim.com/site/15:34
BluesLeelcuk: its a no cut version15:34
BluesLeethe second sim sits between the battery and the cover15:34
lcukthen try it and see15:34
SpeedEvilhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/nokia-N900-FAULTY-/130430754963?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item1e5e476093 Oops.15:35
SpeedEvil(not mine)15:35
PontusOhmanYeah, but I want to check if there will be a menu to use for it :)15:35
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BluesLeePontusOhman: there is no stk menu15:35
kerioSpeedEvil: awesome15:35
PontusOhmanBluesLee: Okey =/15:36
BluesLeePontusOhman: you should use an older phone which has an stk menu15:36
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BluesLeePontusOhman: then you activate 007 mode15:36
BluesLeePontusOhman: an then you should switch between the sims with 001+call resp 002.call15:36
BluesLeePontusOhman: unfortunately, it does not work:-)15:37
BluesLeePontusOhman: i may post a thread on talk with screenshots15:37
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lcukthe lovely yellow hildon banners15:40
lcukshould be tintable15:40
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lcukwhen a process goes well, they should be tinted green15:40
lcukand when its an error banner it should be tined red15:40
trumeeBluesLee: what do you mean it does not work?15:41
lcukseeing yellow all hte time means you have to read the banner itself to understand its contents - even if you were expecting it15:41
lcuk(and apps have the worst way of describing things)15:41
trumeeBluesLee: You are not able to use the adaptor as it is intended?15:42
BluesLeetrumee: right15:44
Khertan_Home15:44
BluesLeetrumee: it works with stk mode in other mobiles15:44
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trumeeBluesLee: i am not interested in other mobile. So the verdict is it is useless for N900. No dual sim support. :(15:45
BluesLeetrumee: in 007 mode (=using code+call) it generates powercycles15:45
BluesLeetrumee: this holds only for the version i mentioned15:45
trumeeBluesLee: you mean it reboots the phone?15:45
BluesLeetrumee: no, it "reboots" the sim15:46
kerioi bet cellmo won't like that anyway15:46
trumeeBluesLee: ah, i see.15:46
BluesLeetrumee: it asks for your pin every 30 s15:46
BluesLeethere are cut versions which work15:47
trumeehttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=770311&postcount=12  this guys post suggests it works15:47
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trumeehow can i refresh hal in N900?15:59
trumee /etc/init.d/hal force-reload did the trick.16:02
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Chibi-Taigahey guys whats this wget ?16:03
SpeedEvilwget is a command line tool to get web and other files16:04
Chibi-Taigahttp://jdownloader.org/download/index16:04
Chibi-Taigai wanna install this16:05
Chibi-Taigabut i need wget probaly16:05
Chibi-Taigafor n90016:05
SpeedEvilWell - ask them for a n900 version16:05
FauxFauxGetting Java to work isn't amazingly trivial, so that's probably not a great idea.16:05
lcukhmm oauth fails if you open 2 auth requests from different apps o_O16:05
SpeedEvilOh16:05
lcukpotentially16:05
SpeedEvilNo java16:05
SpeedEvilso find another downloader16:06
FauxFauxThere is Java.16:06
SpeedEvilIt's not like there is a shortage16:06
FauxFauxBut Chibi obviously not has the slightest idea what it's doing.16:06
Chibi-Taigajdownloader is an java application16:06
Chibi-Taigaits pretty neat for downloading from links16:07
Chibi-Taigaand dlc16:07
lcukKhertan_Home, just because I have my keyboard closed does not mean I need to be in portrait mode :$16:09
* lcuk often wiggles keyboard in/out16:09
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tgalalhey my N900 absolutely stop scanning for new media. This includes new pictures by the camera, music, videos, everything.. Any idea what's wrong ?16:13
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SpeedEvilTracker database is possibly corrupt16:14
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SpeedEvilBlow away /home/user/.cache/tracker/file*16:16
SpeedEvilyou may want to back them up first, just in case16:16
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* Noobmonk3y waves16:32
Noobmonk3yhas anyone else been suffering from the nokia messaging pain in the ass - where it keeps on asking for the password? been happenning for about 5 days now16:33
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tgalalSpeedEvil: removed it, restarted the phone, and it did query for new media. However, only 20 songs of about 400 were found!  And same pictures showed up again, didn't get the new ones too..16:35
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FireFlyHm.. what was the name of the file that runs on USB mass storage connection & disconnection?16:40
FireFlys/file/shell script/16:40
infobotFireFly meant: Hm.. what was the name of the shell script that runs on USB mass storage connection & disconnection?16:40
FireFlyErr, yes, I did16:40
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SpeedEviltgalal: you know that if you plug in USB and select mass storage - that the media on it is inaccessible?16:42
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tgalalSpeedEvil: it is accesible normally via mass storage16:46
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tgalalSpeedEvil: is there a way I could track the process of creating the databases so I'd know where it gets stuck16:50
SpeedEvilumm16:52
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SpeedEvil /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg - thedebug liog verbosity16:53
SpeedEvilalso - installing syslogd16:53
tgalalSpeedEvil: i changed the verbosity to debug. Where does it show up?16:57
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SpeedEvilsyslog I think17:04
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DocScrutinizer(/home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg) you can nice trackerd there, strongly recommended17:11
RST38hDoc: Here?17:11
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DocScrutinizer# Sets the indexing speed (0->20, where 20=slowest speed)17:13
DocScrutinizer#Throttle=017:13
DocScrutinizerThrottle=1017:13
DocScrutinizeractually means niceness of tracked process17:13
DocScrutinizerRST38h: wazzup?17:13
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trumeeAnybody used two sixaxis controllers at the same time?17:20
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ??17:20
RST38hDoc: Back to out chat about swap fragmentation17:20
DocScrutinizeraah17:20
RST38hDoc: I have been looking for a Linux utility that would defragment swap in place17:20
trumeeIf both are used together N900 loses its touchscreen functionality.17:20
RST38hDoc: Which seems logical, even for HDs17:21
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DocScrutinizeryo17:21
DocScrutinizerguess there's no such thing though17:21
RST38hDoc: Have not found any. What I found though is even curioser17:21
trumeehttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=814133#post814133 heres partly my solution.17:21
RST38hDoc: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/17:21
RST38hDoc: Enjoy17:21
RST38hDoc: And if you feel like trying it, please do17:22
DocScrutinizerI think somebody did already17:22
RST38hURL?17:22
trumeeCrap, dont know its bash3 fault, but if i do a 'wq' or 'x' in vi as root, it freezes the xterm17:22
DocScrutinizersome few days ago, along with crypto17:22
trumeealthough 'q' works ok.17:22
RST38hAh: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3210517:23
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SpeedEvilhttp://pastebin.ca/1938872 RST38h - on defragging swap17:24
SpeedEvilell - not fragging17:24
DocScrutinizerRST38h: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-09-07.log.html#t2010-09-07T20:42:5517:24
SpeedEvilan email tro a mailing list that's not gone through17:24
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RST38hSpeed: Too complicated, won't ever be implemented, need a ready-made solution =(17:25
DocScrutinizerRST38h: rsp http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=compcache17:26
SpeedEvilit's a few dozens of lines of C to implement a simple nbd client17:26
* RST38h wonders how plain compcache will fare on the N900, with the disk swap off17:27
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RST38hDoc: Ironically, the search result mostly contains questions like mine, we it does look like we have to hunt down and interrogate tobis87 =)17:28
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jedlhlhi all, it is possible to get the very latest meego env (i.e. daily trunk builds) for n900's nowadays isn't it?17:30
jedlhlOne just has to be prepared to build an img from that daily trunk right?17:30
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DocScrutinizerjedlhl: /join #meego-arm17:31
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jedlhlthanks im in meego atm but i'll also try meego-arm17:32
Jaffajedlhl: Weekly, AIUI. But last week's wasn't buildable.17:32
jedlhlyeah apparently: some exceptions if they updated closed blobs (published weekly) but usually latest weeklys work17:33
* Jaffa saw you ask it on #meego and Stskeeps' reply17:33
* Jaffa goes to bastardise a USB cable.17:33
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jedlhlyeah noticed, my bad17:34
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BluesLeecan i call a chosen contact which is saved on my sim memory via dbus?17:41
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alteregoQMaemo5ListPickSelector is quite a crappy class really ..17:53
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lcukalterego, propose a better one17:55
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alteregoActually, looking at it it goes deeper.17:55
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alteregoI wish C++ had closures17:57
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* alterego ponrders on what to have for dinner.18:27
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* Noobmonk3y is going out for dinner, yay! no pondering needed....18:28
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* Noobmonk3y ponders what to wear.... darnnit18:28
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alteregoWell, until you get there :P18:30
alteregoThen you'll have to choose from a menu obviously :P18:31
Noobmonk3ylol :P18:31
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lcukhey Noobmonk3y18:33
Noobmonk3yhey hey luck :)18:33
lcukdid you break the transitions on my machine18:33
Noobmonk3yNope, not for lack of trying, but nope lol18:33
lcuk:D18:33
Noobmonk3yi'm multitasking :P wooohooo go me!18:33
lcukheh18:33
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alteregoThink I'll have some toast and then maybe order a pizza later.18:33
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Noobmonk3yPlaying with Nitdroid - v impressed, whilst configuring exchange in a vmware environment :)18:33
alteregoMy gf has gone away for a week, so I can take this opportunity to chill out have a few beers and do some coding ^.^18:33
lcukalterego, just throw some cheese and tomato and misc fridge fodder onto some toast18:34
Noobmonk3ylcuk, remember how annoyed i was about lack of ide's and pyqt programming....18:34
* lcuk made pizza last night18:34
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Noobmonk3yManaged to get a simple app working on nitdroid in under an hour, meh.......18:34
lcukpotentially18:34
lcukyes its easy to get simple apps working18:35
Noobmonk3ywell not on maemo :P18:35
alteregolcuk: I would, but I have literally nothing in the fridge, we cleaned it out last night before she left.18:35
Noobmonk3yhehe18:35
alteregoWell, everything except a little pasta sauce.18:35
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alteregoSo I could use that, BBQ :)18:35
lcukNoobmonk3y, can you develop android apps on the android device?18:36
lcuklike you pretty much did with healthcheck?18:36
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Noobmonk3yahhh good point, probably not, but wouldnt be doing that most of the time :P18:36
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Noobmonk3ylcuk, i only did it a bit on h/c - mainly as i had no pc, but realistically was too cumbersome, allthough good that i could18:37
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lcukNoobmonk3y, for python, if there was a nice simple ide that talked it would work well18:37
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Noobmonk3yyup i agree entirely :)18:37
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Noobmonk3yeclipse is getting there with python, just not quite there yet18:38
lcukeclipse is like some monster itself18:38
Noobmonk3yyeah hehe18:38
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lcukit hardly comes into the simple category18:38
Noobmonk3ybut one thing an ide does dtart doing - is standardising in a way, it means people can visually see and adapt quickly, might be a monster, but does help quick development18:38
Noobmonk3yafter the year of configuring it :P18:39
lcukexclipse, picking up where the emacs as OS left off18:39
Noobmonk3yhaha18:39
lcuk-x18:39
Corsacas if emacs had left of :/18:43
Corsacs/of//18:43
infobotCorsac meant: as if emacs had left  :/18:43
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lcukNoobmonk3y, so are you pushing your hardco errr H/C to different platform then19:09
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Noobmonk3ynaaaaaa, was just testing the waters :P - staying with mameo :P19:10
* lcuk thought your app ran on maemo, what is this mameo you speak of :p19:12
Adeonmameo must be the new secret nokia mobile OS that can brew coffee19:13
lcukmobile coffee brewing is so old hat19:13
lcukthe next generation mobiles will run on fuelcells19:14
lcukand can share vodka with you19:14
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Noobmonk3ylol19:22
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Chibi-Taigasince n900 is a linux based phone does it support wine ?19:25
SpeedEvilNo.19:25
SpeedEvilWine is not an emulator.19:25
sheepbatthat would require an x86 CPU19:25
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Chibi-Taigai see19:25
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kerioqemu!19:28
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Venemo_N900Hi Maemo people19:29
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DocScrutinizerkerio: bochs + win NT19:39
kerioheh19:39
keriohow about NO19:39
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DocScrutinizerbacon nfused vodka19:42
kerioi want qemu19:43
DocScrutinizerinfused (darn, need to boot and vacuum my kbd)19:43
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kerioyour kbd has an OS?19:44
kerioyeah, you better turn it on19:44
DocScrutinizercons of a laptop: low profile keyboard (no space for bread crumbs), and can't unplug kbd to clean with vacuum19:45
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lcukturn upside down and bash repeatedly19:45
lcukscoop crumbs into a pile and nibble for the rest of the afternoon19:46
keriolol19:46
DocScrutinizerdoesn't help as gap between keys is too small so crumbs will only come out when pressing keys to open up sufficient gap19:46
kerioi have a gap between keys :D19:47
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DocScrutinizereven then crumbs will stay where they are: inside key caps19:48
Venemo_N900Advantage of N900 keyboard: the gap between keys is too small for any dirt to get in there19:48
Venemo_N900but lcuk, that was lol19:48
lcukthe n810 keyboard was crumbsafe19:49
lcukbut the 810 and 900 have a different issue19:49
lcuksand in the slider!19:49
DocScrutinizereeeeeek19:50
lcukit makes a god awful noise when you get it19:50
Venemo_N900I finally saw an N810 live on the mobile linux applications course, and it looked very good19:50
DocScrutinizeryeah, actually N900 is anti-ruggedized19:50
shadeslayerany ideas if nokia will release a N900 with a capacitive screen?19:50
kerioshadeslayer: go away19:50
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shadeslayerkerio: :P19:50
Venemo_N900actually, I would prefer an N900 with the N810's colors and design19:50
DocScrutinizerno way19:50
shadeslayerwhy?19:51
shadeslayerarent capacitive screens the norm now?19:51
keriofor dickphones19:51
DocScrutinizerfsck crappy c-ts. No stylus, no resolution19:51
Venemo_N900shadeslayer: capactive screens are crap19:51
shadeslayerwhy?19:52
kerio*serious* lack of precision19:52
lcuklike a good cake:19:52
kerioi mean, it's ridiculous19:52
Venemo_N900shadeslayer: because they are inaccurate and unusable with anything but bare fingers19:52
lcuksingle layer capacitive screens are good, but dual layered mixed mode are better.19:52
shadeslayeroic19:53
Venemo_N900resistive ones are better IMO19:54
DocScrutinizer<3 n900 r-ts19:54
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: "r-ts" = ?19:55
DocScrutinizerresistive touch-screen?19:55
Venemo_N900K19:55
shadeslayeri really do want a n900... just cant afford it right now :P19:56
shadeslayeralso... is there a SDK or developer channel for maemo ?19:56
Venemo_N900shadeslayer: wait for the next model, then the N900's price will sink down19:56
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DocScrutinizerI honestly doubt that19:57
Venemo_N900shadeslayer: yes, #maemo-devel and #qt-maemo19:57
shadeslayerVenemo_N900: next model of N900? haha :P19:57
Venemo_N900shadeslayer: next model will be called N9 afaik19:58
DocScrutinizermost probably next device is crap by spec. like c-ts, no hw-kbd and whatnot19:58
shadeslayeroic19:58
DocScrutinizeror it's N919:58
Venemo_N900Well, noone knows for sure19:59
DocScrutinizeranyway don't hold your breath for considerably lower prices of N90019:59
Dhraak[n900]lcuk: so you can do multitouch ungloved but still use the stylu for precision or cold weather?19:59
DocScrutinizerN810 still is ~240EUR19:59
lcukDhraak[n900], yes19:59
lcuki write a lot20:00
lcukand its impossible with a frozen sausage20:00
DocScrutinizeryou can do mt on r-ts!20:00
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shadeslayerVenemo_N900: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php << OS : Symbian^3 .. lol20:00
lcukDocScrutinizer, sure20:00
lcuki showed it on my 81020:01
lcukand its an embedded standard part of liqbase :P20:01
Dhraak[n900]I got my n900 off ebay last month for $354 or so with all retail-box accessories and several screen protectors20:01
shadeslayerlooks sweet20:01
DocScrutinizerI guess that's fake mt though, as neither N810 nor N900 have the hw for true mt20:01
shadeslayerspecially the screen tilting20:01
Venemo_N900shadeslayer: not announced yet officially, so as I said, noone knows20:01
shadeslayerVenemo_N900: ok...20:02
Dhraak[n900]fake mt?20:02
lcukDhraak[n900], sure20:02
Dhraak[n900]how's that work?20:02
lcukon the n80020:02
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM20:02
lcuksee for yourself20:02
lcukinstall liqbase on it20:02
lcuktry it out even :P20:03
Dhraak[n900]I know my laptop's touchpad can emulate multifinger taps20:03
DocScrutinizeron fake mt the driver will detect 2 touchpoints as one touchpoint that moves very fast to a new pos, and increases area/pressure20:04
lcuk(oh, your n900 still doesn't have complete liqbase rebuild20:04
* Dhraak[n900] needs to actually look into changing default apps20:04
* lcuk hmmms and ponders releasing it again20:04
Dhraak[n900]had to cp/paste that url into fennec20:05
DocScrutinizerso basically what fake mt does is gesture recog rather than true mt20:05
lcukDocScrutinizer, it has finger recognisers and works out when you break the laws of physics20:05
DocScrutinizerok, fair enough20:06
lcukso that "oh look, you couldnt have possibly moved that far in one step, its a second finger"20:06
Dhraak[n900]...and, evil as it may be, perhaps get flash working in fennec20:06
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: true mt on r-ts works with such simple methods like probing current flowing thru the gradient plane. or - even better - on true 5 wire r-ts you get mt basically for free20:10
DocScrutinizerthough you can do a "sequential fake 5 wire" on a genuine 4 wire r-ts, if your driver hw isn't too braindamaged20:12
lcukDocScrutinizer, with 5 wire you cannot do pixel by pixel MT addressing20:12
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lcukyou need to implement the sort of 4 element per pixel thing that the statum device uses20:13
Dhraak[n900]could I get that mt youtube link again?20:13
DocScrutinizerI guess there's not a single technology for ts that does MT on a pixel resolution20:13
lcuk<lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM20:13
Dhraak[n900]thanks20:13
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lcukDocScrutinizer, Stantum MT resistive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc20:14
* Dhraak[n900] burned some battery on a reboot20:14
DocScrutinizeryeah those buggers stolen my ideas :-P20:14
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: SAW will.20:15
lcukDocScrutinizer, homemade LED arrays20:15
lcukcan do output and per pixel input20:15
lcukby measuing the current drop as the LED absorbs some of the reflected light from neighbours20:15
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lcukLED array with touch input: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2v4-QvGuU20:16
* Dhraak[n900] wonders how hard it'd be to change the okuda theme to TNG LCARS colors20:17
crashanddieok, my gmail account has been sending massive amounts of spam20:19
DocScrutinizerlcuk: optical touchscreens largely incapable to work with stylus20:19
crashanddiesteps to figure it out?20:19
lcuksure20:20
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yep, saw is a nice technology20:20
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* lcuk is just showing there is a lot of thought already gone into this and similar fields20:20
lcukcrashanddie, "sending"?20:20
lcukI once got joejobbed20:20
lcukand had ~20k bounces in a day20:20
crashanddielcuk: I have about 300 emails in my "sent" directory20:20
crashanddiewith about 100 bounces20:21
lcukthen stop sending them20:21
crashanddiewell, I didn't20:21
crashanddieit's a phishing email for World of Warcraft20:21
lcukor look on the bottom of the screen for the ip addresses of people connected20:21
crashanddieyeah, nothing20:21
lcukyou still play wow :P20:21
crashanddienope20:21
crashanddieI've never played with that account20:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I gather Stantum is 5wire r-ts20:22
lcukDocScrutinizer, no20:22
lcukyou cant do that with only 5 wires20:22
DocScrutinizeruh, so what else?20:23
DocScrutinizer'multi-wire'?20:23
lcukits the only feasible way for true mt20:23
lcukyou saw the video20:23
lcukthere has to be a grid20:23
DocScrutinizerhmm, for 4touch, yes possibly amount of generic data from 5wire is too low20:24
crashanddieThing is, my computer has been off all day20:25
crashanddieand it's been sending spam all afternoon20:25
crashanddieI've changed the password, crap.20:25
DocScrutinizerso you add points all over the sensing plane area, not only probing the 4 corners20:25
prontowhere does the n900 keep recorded videos20:26
DocScrutinizeras long as there are no more tha 2 touchpoints inside area of the square built by 4 sensing points, you're fine20:26
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DocScrutinizerpronto: either on uSD, or on /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM20:29
RST38hback20:30
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* Dhraak[n900] wonders how best to (and whether he wants to) get flash in fennec20:37
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Dhraak[n900]think I'll leave that taint isolated in microB20:38
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Chibi-Taigais there something like emule for n900 ?20:41
Shapeshiftergood grief HAM is a disgrace.20:42
Shapeshifter._.20:42
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Dhraak[n900]HAM?20:43
Shapeshifterharmattan fuckin' application manager20:44
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Dhraak[n900]ah20:44
lcukShapeshifter, err20:45
lcuk"hildon application manager"?20:45
Shapeshifteroops20:45
lcukand disable -devel and -testing20:45
Shapeshifterindeed20:45
Shapeshifterlcuk: and end up with what?20:45
lcukand push devs to get their apps in shape without needing them20:45
Shapeshifterlcuk: are you suggesting that it's reasonable that HAM can only cope with a limited, small number of applications?20:46
lcukyou are trying to load in every version of every app developed and constantly refreshing them20:46
fralslcuk: well, they kinda need to pass -devel and -testing to get to extras.. :p20:46
lcukfrals, sure20:46
fralshence people need them active ;-)20:46
lcukI would rather find an alternative :P20:46
lcukand they only need -testing to be fair20:47
Shapeshifterlcuk: I usually don't make this lame comparison, but look at the iphone... or android. people browsing applications don't want to wait 3 minutes for the index to load. and there really aren't many applications for the N900, even including -testing and -devel.20:47
Shapeshifterit's an overviewable list you can even browse through by hand in about 15 minutes20:47
Shapeshifterit's simply a disgrace.20:47
lcukShapeshifter, download assistance works on the web in a similar manner to those other devices20:47
lcukand Shapeshifter the guy who wrote fapman tried it20:48
lcukso you grab that20:48
RST38hfapman is alsoslowupdatingindices20:49
lcukindeed20:49
RST38hMay I once again suggest reanimating PackRat?20:49
lcuklatest version is slower than other20:49
Shapeshifterlcuk: so you disagree that the whole package management through app with the inane HAM as its frontend is a horrible solution for the n900?20:49
Shapeshifterlcuk: you can't be seriously suggesting that HAM is "good"20:50
RST38hBecause it will do exactly what you all want - fast server-side package browsing20:50
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lcukShapeshifter, i think there is no viable alternative solution at this point20:50
RST38hlcuk: There is20:50
VenemoN900Hey again20:50
lcukbut with some work, some others may present themselves20:50
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RST38hlcuk: Open this in MicroB on your tablet: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/20:51
lcukRST38h, server side in what regard20:51
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RST38hlcuk: Check the url20:52
lcuki am20:52
RST38hlcuk: You can browse one or more repositories this way, installing stuff by clicking on install20:52
ShapeshifterRST38h: did you make this?20:52
Plektraohoi20:52
RST38hlcuk: It works instantly (the app lists being kept at the server) and roughly corresponds to Ovi20:52
lcukbut that still has its issues20:53
RST38hShapeshifter: yes20:53
VenemoN900Hm... what is the file that contains the repositories' data?20:53
RST38hlcuk: Of course it does. A few you will have to live with, others can be fixed trivially20:53
ShapeshifterRST38h: I'm probably stupid but I cannot see how to "browse" and not search this...20:53
RST38hShapeshifter: That is one thing that has to be fixed20:53
lcukRST38h, the main one being the "apt-get update" and huge local package lists20:53
lcukwhich is exactly the same as fapman20:53
RST38hShapeshifter: A separate page has to be added to browse by category20:53
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RST38hlcuk: well, you can serve a package directly in .deb form via http20:54
lcukdependencies20:54
RST38hlcuk: create a personalized repo where the web site loads user's packages20:55
Shapeshifterlcuk: what about them. you can pull those as well.20:55
RST38hand their dependencies20:55
trumeeis there any software on N900 which allows to rate music.20:55
lcukand you are at the PPA stage20:55
lcuk:)20:55
trumeeI want a way to rate music and then generate playlist of rated music.20:55
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lcukRST38h, for normal humans and path of least resistence - pushing as many apps onto extras itself is a benefit20:57
lcukbecause then the need to use -devel by default can be sidestepped as much as possible20:57
RST38hlcuk: obviously, powers that set extras promotion policies are not normal humans20:58
XaphaniaHellOlAloHallOhayo.. I HI..20:58
RST38hlcuk: Most normal humans have understood this by now and simply enabled -testing and -devel20:58
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lcukRST38h, no20:58
RST38hyes, lcuk, unfortunately20:58
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trumeehmm. amarok has that feature but have never used it.21:00
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ponyofdeathhi, when i select usb mode my linux does only see my emc as sdb and not my mmc memory card does not seem to be exported anyone know why?21:27
lcukheh nice, SHR on n900, open embedded variant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI  looks fast and has lots of compatability with existing things (shows numpty working :D)21:28
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lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62152 thread on it21:29
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ShadowJKponyofdeath, there's probably something running on the N900 that's using the emmc21:31
ponyofdeathShadowJK: ahh let me check i think i installed lsof21:32
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ponyofdeathShadowJK: does not look like it21:33
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ShadowJKlsof | grep MyDocs ?21:34
ponyofdeathShadowJK: well no this is for /media/mmc121:35
ponyofdeathMydocs shows up as sdb21:35
ShadowJKoh it was the reverse of what i thought it read21:35
ponyofdeathShadowJK: but my addon sd card does not21:35
ponyofdeathShadowJK: yeah not sure if it needs an separate usb module to get detected or what21:36
Funnyfacelcuk: well, those openmoko devices are said to be really slow (haven't tested any myself) so no wonder those things will run well on the N900 :>!21:36
lcukFunnyface, of course21:36
lcukoptimising for a lower spec device makes it looks really slick on faster21:36
Funnyfaceyeah21:37
FunnyfaceI just wish they'd do that for anything new :P21:37
lcukits something I have tried to drill into many folks for a while :)21:37
Funnyfacemost progress in hardware is eaten by inefficient software21:37
FunnyfaceI'd really love to see something like windows 95 booted on a modern PC :P21:37
lcukand designing software from comfort of your multi ghz machine21:37
jogaI used transitioncontrol to pretty much make all transitions instant, it seems more slick that way21:37
ShadikkaFunnyface: Shouldn't be that hard. :P21:38
ShadikkaI remember somebody telling that he runs Win95 just for the speed.21:38
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FunnyfaceShadikka: well, my win95 system used to boot just about as fast as my current win7 system does21:39
Funnyface:P21:39
FunnyfaceI wonder how microsoft can claim that every new version of windows is "faster and more efficient than ever before"21:39
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lcukbecause you generally buy it on hardware that runs faster21:39
Funnyfaceexactly :P21:39
Funnyfaceif it is so much faster, maybe I should stick win7 on my old PC21:40
Funnyfacejust too bad it won't run on 32MB of RAM :P21:40
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kynkywell he not running windows95 for the security21:41
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lcukwhats wrong with security on win95?21:42
koala_manthey're talking about the user experience21:42
ShadikkaWell, on the other hand, Win95 is so old that if there's anything still around that exploits it, it's slightly surprising.21:42
Funnyface^^21:43
SpeedEvilShadikka: you're assuming that the current exploits don't work on 95 there.21:43
Shadikkatrue.21:44
Funnyfacewell it can't be that bad, run it behind NAT, and use modern software on it21:44
lcukwin95 had ping of death didnt it?21:46
FunnyfaceI think the early ones did21:46
kynkythink so, but that got patched, if update applied or you had a service release of it i think21:46
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Funnyfacethey had something called Windows 95 "B" or something that had it fixed21:47
kynkyyeah win95B had usb support too21:47
kynkybut if using ie3 (think ie4 was with an update) then definately some browser exploits that would effect it21:48
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lcukwho booted widows on the n900?22:02
lcukwindows22:02
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RST38h'Galileo Was Wrong' is an inaugural conference to discuss the 'detailed and comprehensive treatment of the scientific evidence supporting Geocentrism, the academic belief that the Earth is immobile in the center of the universe.22:15
RST38h'Scientific evidence available to us within the last 100 years that was not available during Galileo's confrontation shows that the [Catholic] Church's position on the immobility of the Earth is not only scientifically supportable, but it is the most stable model of the universe and the one which best answers all the evidence we see in the cosmos.'22:16
* RST38h read it as "100 metres" rather than "100 years" first, but anyway...22:16
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qwebirc19741hey22:20
qwebirc19741can someone tell me, if i can use gfire pidgin plugin on my n900 somehow?!?! pls help!! :$22:21
RST38hno.22:21
qwebirc19741=(22:21
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qwebirc19741so xfire is unable on n900?22:22
SpeedEvilqwebirc19741: In principle - it would need compiled.22:22
qwebirc19741hm22:22
RST38hSpeed: If he could recompile stuff he wouldn't be asking22:22
qwebirc19741yeah =D tru22:22
qwebirc19741as you see, im totally noob to these stuffs =(22:23
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nox-moin22:23
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trumeeluke-jr: around?22:57
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alteregoHalf way season 2 of SG-1 ..23:15
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alteregoIt's been a good Sunday, got some nice coding done, had some pizza and a few beers.23:15
lcukalterego, how is your app coming on?23:15
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alteregoPretty good.23:16
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lcukscreenies or updates?  is it converted to qml yet?23:16
alteregoPast few sessions I've been heavily refactoring the configuration areas.23:17
alteregoFunny you should mention that, I've actually been working on porting some of my widgets to QML :)23:17
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lbtany debian packagers fancy packaging a tool to help me setup management around the meego community cluster? http://www.heiho.net/synctool/23:17
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alteregoUnfortunately, all my attempts to get a Qt 4.7 toolchain and madde working together have failed.23:18
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alteregoSo I'm kinda stuck waiting for Qt SDK 223:19
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alteregoDownloaded the RC today, but it doesn't contain any maemo stuff :/23:19
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alteregoAlso, qml-launcher has for some reason stopped working on my N900 :/23:20
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alteregoAnd I'm not really prepared to reflash just yet.23:20
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lcukalterego, hmm23:41
lcukyou sound like you goosed it up slightly23:41
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alteregoI don't see how :/ I do very little lower than app development.23:45
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alteregoIt just stopped working, around the time I installed an fcam update but I can't believe that actually had anything to do with it.23:46
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RST38hBTW, why are Modest people not updating their source code in git?23:57
lcukwhere are you seeing commits being made?23:59

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