IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-09-11

mc_teo`ah, its the demo package is conflicting with the full install package00:00
mc_teo`so unistalling the demo should let it update00:00
luke-jrIPv6 redefines the TOS bits as "undefined" :/00:02
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ShadowJKi think they were already redefined in ipv4 too00:03
SpeedEvilDon't you Lurve spec bugs!00:03
povbotBug 10354: Symbol virtual keyboard inconsistent to access from hardware keyboard.00:03
* SpeedEvil sighs.00:03
SpeedEvil'mashing the two keys shouldn't work reliably' = broken spec00:03
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luke-jrthe proxy should respond to ARP on its own..00:04
SpeedEvilARP, probably ping00:05
luke-jrprovided its connection is alive00:05
luke-jrno, that would be evi00:05
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th3hatethis folder is taking 200Mb of /home (/home/user/kroll) how can i symlink it into MyDocs?00:06
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SpeedEvilIf it's purely files, and does not have any ownership or permissions requirements, simply copy it, and then symlink the directory00:07
mc_teo`SpeedEvil: ha, i would of thought the buttons label would make it obvious00:07
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SpeedEvilmc_teo`: Sure.00:08
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SpeedEvilmc_teo`: However - is there any sane rationale at all for mashing the two buttons sometimes working, sometimes not?00:08
th3hateSpeedEvil, can you tell me how to? cp /home/user/kroll /home/user/MyDocs ?00:09
th3hatewill that work?00:09
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SpeedEvilyou need cp -R I think00:09
mc_teo`mv /home/user/kroll/* /home/user/MyDocs/kroll/00:10
th3hatekroll is game, so files are required for it to run i guess00:10
SpeedEvilIf it has binaries, it will not work.00:10
SpeedEvilAs they will not be executable on mydocs00:10
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mc_teo`can you not chmod +x00:11
th3hatecore.pakd000, core.pakh, game_user_info.savegame, Kroll00:11
* luke-jr ponders if this can be integrated into iodine sanely00:11
th3hatethese are the files00:11
mc_teo`or is that a security feature00:11
SpeedEvilmc_teo`: vfat does not support +x00:11
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th3hatei have a duplicate dir (/home/home/xxx)00:14
th3hateis it safe to delete it?00:14
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th3hatecan i delete this dir to free rootfs? /var/lib/dpkg00:26
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liorith3hate: only if you never want to install or remove any app later00:27
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th3hatei'll take that as a no00:28
th3hatei only have 40 app installed , yet rootfs is 90% full00:28
th3hatedoubt any non-optified apps are installed00:28
liorith3hate: have you actually checked which files take the most space?00:29
th3hateyeah, using storage usage app to figure out00:30
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th3hate/usr/lib is taking up 171Mb of rootfs00:30
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h4waiiLet's say I wanted to launch osso-xterm upon boot, after hildon pops up.00:33
h4waiiWhy does an upstart script waiting for hildon-desktop not work? Is it a different trigger PID I need?00:33
jacekowskiwell, it does work00:34
jacekowskibut osso-xterm fails to connect to Xserver probably00:34
h4waiiMakes perfect sense.00:34
h4waiiI'm creating a script to snapshot processes so I can open them after a nightly power-cycle.00:36
jacekowskiexport DISPLAY=:0 before executing xterm00:38
h4waiiand fcron doesn't support @reboot for some recockulous reason00:38
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firestormvnc server is not under the apps is there another deposrity *spellin* i need to add?00:40
h4waiiVNCserver? x11vnc?00:41
kerio~debian firestorm00:41
* infobot tells firestorm to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!00:41
firestormoh ffs thanks h4waii :)00:42
h4waiijacekowski, still doesn't open it.00:42
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h4waiiPerhaps, xsession instead of hildon-desktop ?00:44
th3hatemv /usr/share/nokia-maps /home/opt/00:45
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th3hatemv:cannot remove '/home/opt/nokia-maps' : is a directory00:45
th3hateany idea why?00:46
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joelpethi! i installed openjazz on my N900 and used the settings option to remap the keys.. problem is that they seem to have been remapped on a global system level. any idea on how to fix this?00:46
h4waiith3hate; the error message is right there. It's a directory.00:47
th3hateh4waii, right but i wanna move it out of rootfs, any idea how?00:47
th3hateoh nevermind , it's already in /opt i guess00:48
h4waiiPlease make sure you symlink it back.00:49
th3hateactually it's both in /root and /opt00:50
th3hatethat's why rootfs is full00:50
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h4waiijacekowski, FYI - fixed it, without exporting the variable.00:51
mc_teo`th3hate: i think you need a move -R00:51
firestormurgh been so long can't remeber how to use this phone!00:52
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mc_teo`mv -R rather00:52
th3hatewhat does -R stand for?00:53
mc_teo`well you cant rm a dir without -r so i presume the same for mv00:54
mc_teo`but since -r and -R probably have different functions, i would double check on google00:55
th3hatewhat about ln -s, what is it for?00:55
mc_teo`link symbolicoly, iirc00:55
joelpetyep, that's correct00:55
mc_teo`ln is link, the -s means symlink00:56
th3hateyou think this will work to free up /home?00:58
th3hatemv /home/user/kroll /home/user/MyDocs/00:58
th3hateln -s /home/user/kroll /home/user/MyDocs/kroll00:58
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th3hatekroll is a game taking 200mb of /home00:58
mc_teo`will fapmans apt gui ever replace the app manager00:59
mc_teo`or at least use some of his code to speed up the app manager01:00
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Shadikkayeah, the scrolling in that actually feels nice01:00
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th3hateis it safe to delete some locales i don't need in usr/share/locale to free rootfs space?01:01
ShadikkaProbably, but don't quote me on that.01:02
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mc_teo`th3hate: i pretty sure there are loads of wiki tutorials that give you many options to free rootfs space01:02
pupnikReally bad news people:  REALLY bad news on the software law side >>>
th3hatemc_teo`, i did everything menitioned in the wiki, yet my rootfs is still 86% full01:03
mc_teo`and i dont mind the scrolling, its just currently, there is no way to select numerous packages to install01:04
mc_teo`or update01:04
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mc_teo`i would rather select a few, and install them in one go, rather than waiting the few minutes in between01:05
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h4waiith3hate, yes. But make sure you delete the right ones.01:05
th3hateh4waii, i guess everything but en_GB01:05
h4waiiVery much not so.01:06
Shadikkamc_teo`: well, let me rephrase that, the scrolling in it is something I wouldn't mind seeing as the Maemo default01:06
h4waiiAt the least, symlink them out of / and into /opt01:06
mc_teo`th3hate: one of the tutorials definately mentioned moving the locales and symlinking them01:07
liorith3hate: in debian there is a nice package `localepurge`. i don't know if it is in maemo repos too01:07
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joelpetAh, seems like openjazz set the keyboard to english layout and then did not reset it to swedish (which is what i am currently using). So problem solved by editing the settings in Text input---> Hardware kerbord layout01:08
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th3hatejust noticed most of ovi free apps aren't optified, weatherbug for example takes 3Mb of rootfs01:16
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lindi-could some sort of overlay filesystem be better suited for choosing dynamically what to store on rootfs and what on sd?01:18
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RST38hvery other hour01:20
RST38hor two to give the impression of never sleeping01:20
RST38hsorry wrong paste01:20
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RST38hHere, check it out01:21
ShadowJKcheck what out..01:22
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ShadowJKI guess I'll have to fire up a web browser then if you wont say :P01:23
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luke-jrhmm, better than a proxy would be having the servers in question just not send data until needed … ;P01:24
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luke-jrwait, I already thought of that… problem is there are two different "better"s01:25
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luke-jrproblem with a proxy is the added latency01:29
luke-jrfor those real-time things…01:29
ShadowJKlol real time01:30
ShadowJKon 3g01:30
luke-jrShadowJK: like RTP01:30
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ShadowJKdata stops for a second if the operator decides to upgrade you from 3g to hsdpa or downgrade you from hsdpa to 3g :)01:31
luke-jrso never?01:31
luke-jrN900 has no hsdpa, n00b01:31
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ShadowJK... it does01:31
SpeedEvilYou can never convince all servers on the net to do this.01:32
SpeedEvilYou can with a proxy01:32
luke-jrisn't hsdpa = 4G?01:32
ShadowJKluke-jr, that's up to politicians to decide01:32
ShadowJKbut N900 calls it "3.5G"01:32
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ShadowJKTypically wimax and LTE are called 4g01:32
ShadowJKN900 has 10 Mbit/s HSDPA and 2 MBit/s HSUPA01:33
luke-jrso I should just force 3G only?01:33
ShadowJKYou can force "3g or 3.5g but no 2g or 2.5g", but you can't do "3g only no 3.5g"01:34
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ShadowJKBasically data isn't realtime01:34
ShadowJKmaybe it will be on 4g in the future..01:35
luke-jrso how are calls supposed to work?01:35
ShadowJKcalls don't use packet data01:36
SpeedEvilcalls don't use IP01:36
SpeedEvilDoes anyone happen to know what encapsulation 'video calls' use/01:36
ShadowJKon 4g they're supposed to, so I guess operators can still charge you through the nose for not randomly delaying your packets by seconds during calls01:36
SpeedEvilThat is 'normal' 3G video calls01:37
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, whatever it is, it's probably like MMS+WAP, a "Not Invented Here" redesign of some standard internet protocol01:37
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SpeedEvilI was idly wondering if there was a way to use it for point-point data01:37
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luke-jrShadowJK: no? SIP is packet01:38
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ShadowJKluke-jr, "normal" voice calls aren't SIP01:39
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h4waiiUh what? You can force 2G and no 2.5G?01:39
luke-jrShadowJK: SIP is all the voice I have01:39
ShadowJKOn a data link that will happily delay packets for half a minute if it feels like it :)01:40
luke-jris this a limitation of the spec(s), or of Nokia's blob/01:41
h4waiiWhat limitaion?01:41
luke-jrbeing unable to lock to 3G only01:41
luke-jror 2G only01:41
h4waiiAFAIK, a bit of 4 different columns.01:42
h4waiicarrier, network, implementation and handset.01:42
h4waiiAlthough network and implementation are carrier-related.01:42
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luke-jrdo all 3G phones support 3.5?01:47
luke-jrcouldn't N900 lie about its capabiltiies?01:47
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MohammadAG51luke-jr, all 3.5G phones support 3G, not the opposite01:52
MohammadAG516680 had 3G, no 3.5G01:52
ShadowJK"real" voice calls are prioritized over data anyways :)01:53
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jacktheripperdoes anyone have fcam working with titan's ? and is the normal camera app supposed to work with fcam-drivers there ?01:54
SpeedEvilfcam dies for me with the stock kernel01:56
jacktheripperwhat exactly 'dies' ?01:56
SpeedEvilsegfaults on boot01:56
SpeedEvilstart of fcam01:56
SpeedEviloops - power kernel actually01:57
* SpeedEvil reverts01:58
jacktheripperwhy wouldn't you want the power kernel ?'01:58
SpeedEvilBecause I want fcam01:58
SpeedEvilAnd I don't care about overclocking.01:58
SpeedEvilAnd I would actually rather for various purposes have a vanilla kernel onboard.01:58
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luke-jrMohammadAG51: so why couldn't N900 tell carriers it doesn't support 3.5G?02:00
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luke-jrjacktheripper: because you don't want some stupid app being able to overclock your OMAP?02:02
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jacktheripperluke-jr: I prefer having the choice to do so. I actually keep it for the wifi monitor-mode channels bug though.02:03
jacktheripperwith the stock kernel, monitor-mode only finds networks on channel 602:03
luke-jrif you're associated with something on channel 6, sure02:04
jacktherippermonitor-mode means you're associated with nothing.02:04
luke-jrno, it doesn't.02:04
jacktheripperit allows for sniffing packets02:04
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luke-jrI suppose on N900 it does due to another bug02:05
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luke-jrbut *normally* you can be connected *and* monitor02:05
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jacktheripperI honestly didn't try that before.02:07
luke-jryou just need to create another interface on the phy02:07
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luke-jrthen put one in STA mode, and the other in Monitor mode02:07
jacktheripperI know02:07
luke-jrit's nice to do that from my desktop, then when I get out of range it begins hopping channels02:08
luke-jrthen when I get back in range, it locks back to 6 and associates02:08
firestormany one off the top of thier heads tell me what least firmware is02:09
h4waiiMohammadAG51; What's the possbility of using the hw keyboard through USB HID?02:12
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firestormty :)02:12
luke-jrsomeone in #Jesus burned a Quran today:
firestormcweaion 10.2010.39-1.203.302:13
firestormthat sound right bub02:14
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jacktheripperfcam doesn't even work with stock.02:27
jacktheripperdoes anyone here have it working ?02:28
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DocScrutinizer51I used fcam02:34
DocScrutinizer51I *never* used power kernel02:35
DocScrutinizer51I don't give a shit02:35
jacktheripperI can't figure out why it doesn't work here :/02:35
DocScrutinizer51ande I'm 5h on UMTS, using xchat02:36
DocScrutinizer51bat icon down to 66percent02:37
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jacktheripper3G doesn't take as much as 3.5G.02:38
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DocScrutinizer51probably 3.5 takes 2% less than _02:40
DocScrutinizer51than 3G... wtf?02:41
ShadowJKHSDPA eats gigantic amounts of power for me :)02:42
DocScrutinizer51wtf for typo02:42
ShadowJKWell it depends on the task, of course02:42
ShadowJKdownloading a 700M file, HSDPA wins in power efficiency02:43
ShadowJKBut when each chat line on IRC keeps the radio transmitting 8seconds with my operator...02:43
DocScrutinizer51which it does with 3 and 3.5 anyway02:44
ShadowJKAll I know is that when the icon changes from 3 to 3.5G, power consumption goes from 300-400 to 900-1100 :D02:44
ShadowJK(screen on)02:44
DocScrutinizer51got plots?02:45
ShadowJKnope, what kind of plots?02:45
ShadowJKhm, need a way to obtain 3g/3.5g status programmatically..02:46
DocScrutinizer51as 3.5 simply is a more efficient way to cod bits afaik02:46
DocScrutinizer51like q16 vs q6402:47
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ShadowJKYeah well, NASA used to have mainframes working overnight to decode 30 minute transmission from outer solar system with similar coding ;p02:48
ShadowJKdecoding isn't free :)02:49
DocScrutinizer51maybe, but i'd like to see solid numbers02:50
ShadowJKBut it could also be that since my operator switches from 3g to 3.5g at 498 byte/s or so, the 3g/3.5g icon just notifies me of actual traffic flowing02:50
DocScrutinizer51carrier offers 3.5 all the time. It's just the actual (tx) traffic that makes the icon show 3.502:52
SpeedEvilWell - there are somewhat numbers on my page on power use02:52
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ShadowJKCarrier also decides when handset uses WCDMA and when it switches over to HSDPA02:53
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iluminator101does ovi maps for n900 now have turn by turn voice feature ???02:54
ShadowJKStatistics collected by other people have determined that it takes a ping of 498 bytes per second to make my carrier switch from WCDMA to HSDPA, and that switching causes 1290 ms delay. Then it stays on HSDPA for 8s after last activity (or activity > unknown threshold)  before it drops back to WCDMA02:55
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jaska1920ms delay? ouch.02:56
jaskaah oh, still ouch02:56
ShadowJKDNA was fastest with 880 ms02:56
jaskaand even that is pretty slow02:56
ShadowJKAnd Sonera switched to HSDPA at 32 byte ping per second already02:57
ShadowJK77ms ping rtt on HSDPA, 268ms ping rtt on WCDMA with my operator (Elisa/Saunalahti).. I guess the HSDPA pings were >498 bytes to keep hsdpa alive :-)02:58
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DocScrutinizer51bah, rtt 58ms on EDGE02:59
crashanddiewhat are you guys ping'ing?02:59
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whoawhoacan I get a recommendation on which battery and separate charger to get for the n900 online?03:01
ShadowJK288/585/2248 min/avg/max on edge for me03:01
DocScrutinizer51I'm heading home, pinginginginginging my mattrass03:01
crashanddielol... ping doesn't actually return anything at all03:02
DocScrutinizer51whoawhoa: please elaborate03:02
whoawhoaI want an extra battery to carry around with me cause my phone dies everyday03:03
whoawhoaand I wouldnt be able to charge it at the same time without an extra charger03:03
ShadowJK98/103/111 on HSDPA, 289/306/319 on WCDMA03:04
crashanddie68 packets sent / 0 packets received / 100% packet loss03:04
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MNZ51is there a way to disable the turn-music-off-on-im_notification feature?03:08
* DocScrutinizer atomic-pingfloods tmo03:09
DocScrutinizerMNZ51: depends on your definition of IM I guess03:10
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MNZ51the maemo built in IM03:11
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DocScrutinizeractually such 'feature' sounds like a madman's last revenge to me03:11
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MNZ51I KNOW! :/03:12
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MNZ51and it doesn't stop for the time of the notification.... takes tqo more seconds03:13
whoawhoaso, how about a cheap ebay battery and charger?03:13
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DocScrutinizerwhile there's some rationale in stopping media sound on inbound call, it's a fat stinking brainfart to stop media audio on inbound IM notification03:14
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jacktherippersorry for the /nick spam :D03:15
crashanddieapology not accepted03:15
DocScrutinizerwhat spam?03:15
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: spam for people who haven't filtered out nickchanges, I guess03:15
DocScrutinizeranyway, night nerds!03:17
crashanddie/ignore * PARTS JOINS QUITS NICKS03:17
MNZ51oh darn..... I just realized we need PA for stopping media playback on calls, etc03:18
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DocScrutinizer51maybe you do. I 'published' a solution for ALSA  some 6 months ago03:21
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MNZ51DocScrutinizer link/name/anything?03:23
DocScrutinizer51alsa hooks03:23
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DocScrutinizer51paul and me created a plugin to execute arbitrary binaries on audio device open()03:24
DocScrutinizer51of course also on close03:25
DocScrutinizer51FYYYCK PA!03:25
pigeonhmm, what's with this ovi "this item is not available for your country" crap...03:27
MNZ51so deemphasis filter + dmix + hooks and we can get rid of PA? or is there more?03:28
DocScrutinizerwith ALSA hooks you can implement a darn lot f amazing things. With my plugin you can implement almost everything03:28
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DocScrutinizere.g. call dbus to signal device not to go asleep until the current audio playback has finished03:29
MNZ51basically we would just need a method to stop all other audio' during calls03:30
DocScrutinizeralso when the called binary returns !=0, open() fails03:30
DocScrutinizersnd_open() to be more specific03:31
MNZ51btw I fixed up hwdep for the eq the other day(I think)03:32
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DocScrutinizerdo you need a method to STOP (I have a concept for that), or fsckng simply mute unwanted audio, which is basically possible with existing ALSA?03:32
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MNZ51but hwdep_open still complains about device not existing though it's there under /proc03:33
MNZ51yeah stop pr mute03:33
MNZ51or mute03:33
MNZ51how would you go about that?03:33
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MNZ51ok gnite03:34
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SpeedEvilUmm - what are fcamera 'dmg' files?03:38
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DocScrutinizer51the pity is nobody seems to realize the potential of that concept03:50
DocScrutinizer51so I felt like just dumpint it03:50
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DocScrutinizer51heneral opinion seems to be you have tok adapt every single audio app to the target platform, possibly patching original sourcecode to care about mixer settings, resource arbitration and whatnot. Not my idea of a portable system, but meh03:57
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DocScrutinizer51we got PA, the mesias. Knows how to deal with every single problem. Too bad it seems not to work that flawlessly03:59
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SpeedEvilIt does!04:12
SpeedEvilIt's just you can't have the vrersion that works flawlessly04:12
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lcukn900what does04:15
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SpeedEvilThe fixed versionof pulseaudio04:20
lcukn900just mentioning exactly that elsewhere04:21
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DocScrutinizer51imagine maemo dialer Han app you got no source and just maybe can define the audio device:  alsa:phonedialer-ring:0.0) executes an arbitrary script that does all you want, on simply snd_open()04:22
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DocScrutinizer51Hthere's libs using ld_preload you even can tweak PA and OSS based apps, as well as brainfsckd apps with ALSA default hardcoded, to use arbitrary audio dev)04:24
DocScrutinizer51google for fsoraw, then start to dream04:26
DocScrutinizer51audio is a resource like any other04:27
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lcukn900per-contact-ringtone is a decent hack on the call process04:29
DocScrutinizer51there's a prototype of a method that's not a wrapper but a device similar to my ALSA plugin which executes arbitrary executables on snd_open() / snd_close()04:29
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lcukn900not perfect but it suffices04:29
DocScrutinizer51lcukn900: does it work for SIP calls?04:32
lcukn900idk try it04:33
lcukn900marco wrote it and I believe it should cater for as much as possible04:33
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DocScrutinizer51lcukn900: how does arbitrary alarm-to-wakeup app magage to know how to keep N900 screen backlight on during playback of rintone?04:35
lcukn900theres numerous methods to keep light on afaik04:35
DocScrutinizer51how does same app know to mute fmrx radio?04:36
DocScrutinizer51lcu every single one of those methods needs sourcecode patches04:36
lcukn900probably didnt when it was first written but got modified to fix a bug..04:36
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* lcukn900 sleeps04:38
lcukn900nn doc04:38
DocScrutinizer51based on my idea you ship original app with a config to use alsa:myspecialapp:0.0 and you simply ship a alsarc file to define exactly that device, plus a plugin that starts an arbitrary executable04:39
DocScrutinizer51on opening alsa:myspecialapp:0.004:40
DocScrutinizer51plus a second one on closing same audio device04:40
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DocScrutinizer51the executable started on snd_open()  (let's call it a script) may send a signal to all processes which havem an open handle to snd_playback_mp3music alsa audio device04:46
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DocScrutinizer51or it talks to a central resourcek  arbiter daemon, which knows how to either make running tasks mute or stop, or alternatively return(1) which makes the snd-open() call fail so app knows there's some higher prio audio blocking the hardware04:49
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DocScrutinizer51it's almost as versatile as this PA cruft. Only difference is it needs ZERO sourcecode patches04:54
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DocScrutinizer51you just ship a alsarc file for your app which is defining the unique audio device the app is using04:56
DocScrutinizer51plus a script (or set of scripts) that's called when the unique audio dev is opened rsp closed04:57
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DocScrutinizer51aah, and (C) of all this ny me, use as you like but please metion me somewhere04:58
Ken-YoungDOes anyone know of a way to see the distribution of 1, 2 .. 5 star ratings for an individual app in the Extras repository?04:59
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lollooany new updates for N900 maemo?05:02
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ShadSECAnyone knows any faster way to check remaining battery than using hal-device?05:40
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ShadSECmaybe is it in a redable /proc or /sys file?05:42
luke-jryou can make a module that exposes it in /sys05:43
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ShadSECluke, without going that far :P05:44
luke-jrthen no05:44
ShadSECIt's just that grepping hal-device for battery percentage repeteadly is too much load for my script05:45
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ShadSECmmmm, ok, then I just store the result and display that05:45
ShadSECit is not going to change for a while05:46
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lollooguys, whats the best theme for N900?05:54
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SpeedEvilShadSEC: see:05:56
SpeedEvilTRhe script in that.05:56
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SpeedEvilI'm polishing it, and goign to release it to extras maybe - but it works werll05:57
SpeedEvilthat doesn't actually show remaining battery.05:57
SpeedEvilIt could easily though05:57
uthesonsunhey, anyone able to control any tv with this thing yet?05:57
SpeedEvilyes - see irreco05:57
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luke-jrcan't hurt I guess06:09
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N900mothahe grew up not too far from where i live....06:09
ShadSECspeedevil, again it is a bit overkill for what I need, I will just store the value and check it once in a while06:10
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ShadSECspeedevil, but that script is great to check current consumption, thx!06:10
N900mothahis 1st order of the day should be to clear the air about the n900 with the users06:11
uthesonsunaptget doesnt find irreco06:11
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N900mothaso whats this shit i'm hearing about 1.3? is it coming?06:12
ShadSECmmmm, 220mah just with remote ssh doesnt seem right....06:12
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ShadSECLets see what it says just after reboot...06:17
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ShadSECSat Sep 11 05:19:22 CEST 2010 219mA 73 total events, 14.547 events/sec06:19
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ShadSECSpeedEvil, is this script giving real results?06:21
ShadSECif it is, theres somethign very wrong with my phone lol06:22
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ShadSECAnyone else that has tested this script could tell me its ouput from remote ssh with screen off ?06:27
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ShadSECSpeedEvil, this script has an awesome diagnostics value06:36
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SpeedEvilShadSEC: it is ballpark if your wireless is not properly powersaving06:45
SpeedEvilShadSEC: 30 idle to 6 if you're redirecting to a file06:45
SpeedEvilSat Sep 11 04:46:35 BST 2010 52mA 35 total events, 6.965 events/sec06:46
SpeedEvilSat Sep 11 04:46:40 BST 2010 17mA 26 total events, 5.181 events/sec06:46
SpeedEvilSat Sep 11 04:46:45 BST 2010 17mA 27 total events, 5.392 events/sec06:46
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ShadSECSpeedEvil, in fact the remote SSH is going thru 3G, maybe that explains it... but yours are really low figures06:49
ShadSECIt's also useful to check charges... AC charger, arund 800ma, USB charging 400mah, car charger 600mah06:50
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psycho_oreosany of you guys know how hildon-desktop generates e-tag?06:50
SpeedEvil3G is insane.06:52
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SpeedEvilThrough screen - Sat Sep 11 04:52:24 BST 2010 11mA 30 total events, 5.973 events/sec06:53
SpeedEvilSat Sep 11 04:52:29 BST 2010 9mA 16 total events, 3.195 events/sec06:53
ShadSECyep.. I will later check from 3G... but its wlan0 what I am remotely playing with, so i need to ssh through 3g06:53
SpeedEvilwifi with powersave - above numbers06:53
SpeedEvilIf powersave isn't working - 200 isn't unreasonable06:54
ShadSECis that idle or interactive ssh?06:54
SpeedEvilThe first was idle with only the script06:54
SpeedEvilthe second was redirected to a file - both with wlan active06:54
ShadSECthat makes sense... again, this script is great to optimize usage of the n90006:55
SpeedEvilI need to polish it and release properly.06:55
ShadSECthis time with exact figures, not just intuition06:55
ShadSECit seems to be working great to me...06:56
SpeedEvilfrequency stats would be good too.06:58
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ShadSECbut i think watching the exact real time current is more interesting07:01
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openstandardshi all, i've just completely bricked my n900 any fail safe to restore?07:11
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psycho_oreosfail safe?07:12
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psycho_oreosnot really07:13
psycho_oreosyou could reflash it but specifying the original kernel07:13
openstandardstheres no 64bit version :(07:17
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openstandardsso it seems07:17
psycho_oreosflasher? I don't think that would matter much unless you're running ia-6407:17
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openstandardsError: Wrong architecture 'i386' afraid it does :(07:19
pigeoncan you set the n900 not to echo the letters you type for password fields completely?07:20
openstandardsfound something on the wiki using google thats telling me to force the install so i'll give that a try07:21
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jpinxis there any way in the n900 to copy/paste from a regular text file into a text message to be sent?07:27
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pigeondo ctrl-c/ctrl-v work?07:28
jpinxno  - that's why I am asking07:28
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ShadSECDoes wl1251 support multiple virtual interfaces? ie, two, each connected to a different AP in managed mode07:31
psycho_oreosShadSEC, as long as they are on the same channel and you use only one gateway07:31
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ShadSECpsycho, good...and whats the command to create them? I dont see wlanconfig here07:33
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ShadSECand i supposse you mean only one DEFAULT gateway, dont you?07:34
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psycho_oreosShadSEC, you'll need to compile iw :) and yes one default gw07:35
ShadSECpsycho, and it will compile? mmmm, lets try... :P07:37
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psycho_oreosShadSEC, provided that you have met all the deps under scratchbox07:38
ShadSECI use a chroot for native compiling07:39
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ShadSECi find it easier to do the job07:39
psycho_oreosyou compile all the stuff using n900?07:40
ShadSECit is not that slow07:41
ShadSECin fact i think it is very fast07:41
* jpinx uses a chroot in the n900 for his routine computing now07:42
* psycho_oreos thinks some people are nuts07:42
jpinxpsycho_oreos: why?07:42
jpinxI can ssh in and use a bigger kbd screen from  anywhere -- even internetcafes07:43
jpinxcarry around putty on a usb, plug it in, ssh into the n900 :)07:44
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psycho_oreosjpinx, well there's lack of space to begin with unless you either repartition the onboard 29GB or have a large flash drive... then there's issues with CPU doing all that compiling when you could have a normal desktop PC do the job whilst you tinker around n900 more without excessive lags07:44
ShadSECpsycho, my chroot is on a loop mounted ext307:44
ShadSECno space issue07:45
jpinxShadSEC: same here07:45
ShadSECand for compiling... unless you recompile a kernel, everything is fine07:45
ShadSECeven a kernel would be ok during my sleep07:45
psycho_oreosin other words you have about 3 or so GB to play with :)07:45
jpinxShadSEC: do you use screen?07:45
ShadSEC4Gb on the sdk chroot07:46
ShadSECyep, screen is great07:46
psycho_oreosyeah no more than 4GB as per FAT32 limitation07:46
ShadSECyes, and in my tests, theres almost no overhead for using a loop mounted image than a real partition07:47
ShadSECso the images just lie on the big useles FAT07:47
jpinxShadSEC: here's my scenario - chroot into the image, su $USER (because I don't want to appear in irssi as root) and I get /dev/pts/# permissions. Easy enough to fix manually, but I wondered if there could be a way to automate that?07:48
psycho_oreosI normally compile stuff with scratchbox unless I'm in a place where I can't install scratchbox, then I'll consider about a chroot environment under n90007:48
psycho_oreosa script07:48
ShadSECjpinx, you cant script the commands you do manually?07:49
psycho_oreoschroot dev environment I should add07:49
ShadSECpsycho, the truht is that I didn't even care to setup scratchbox... cross compiling sounded more complicate to me07:50
jpinxShadSEC: no - because the /dev/pts/# is not always the same07:50
ShadSECjpix, isnt there a pattern? I mean... how do you find out whats the # is using? manually07:50
psycho_oreosShadSEC, granted it would for most people but once you get the hang of it, you won't find yourself to still be alienated :)07:50
jpinxShadSEC: su $USER and ask for a screen - it'll complain and tell me which /dev/pts/# it was trying to use - so I go back to root and chown that one07:51
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ShadSECpsycho, i was considering setting up a scratchbox... but now that I have native compiling I doubt I will07:52
ShadSECjpinx, ok, you can redirect stddr to a file07:53
psycho_oreosShadSEC, fair enough07:53
ShadSECand grep /dev/pts it07:53
jpinxShadSEC: that'll tell me which /dev/pts/#  but I still need root to chown it07:54
ShadSECscreen 2>&1 | grep "dev/pts" ....07:56
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ShadSECmmmm, gainroot?07:56
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jpinxit's a chroot, I only have to exit the user I am su'd into07:58
jpinxShadSEC: I'll work on it -  the manual fix is no sweat, so it's not a high priority - just a niggle07:59
ShadSECyou can always make you script to communicate to another one outside the chroot using netcat to do the chown for you07:59
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ShadSECbut I am sure there are simpler ways :)07:59
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openstandardsi'm having problems flashing07:59
jpinxShadSEC: I need to look at how /dev/pts# are allocated and maybe i can predict before I su as $USER07:59
ZogGthat's it08:00
ZogGit pissed me off08:00
ShadSECyou can also use group permissions08:00
ZogGi'm tiered of people making forum the trash08:00
jpinxShadSEC: yea - didn't think of that ;)08:00
ShadSECgive rw group permision to all pts08:00
ShadSECand make the user be part of that group08:01
ShadSECugly, but....08:01
jpinxShadSEC: it's only a chroot ;)08:02
ShadSECyep, and in a damn phone :P08:02
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openstandards can someone look at this pastie of mine concerning my n900 and flasher08:03
ShadSECwhich btw I am going to throw out of the windows if i cant make this thing to work before i go to bed :(08:04
openstandardsit justs keeps on resetting itself and not getting picked up08:08
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openstandardsjpinx, any idea?08:10
jpinxShadSEC: :)08:11
jpinxopenstandards: I've reflashed a few times with no issues at all08:11
jpinxso - no - sorry I have no idea about errors there08:12
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ShadSECjpinx, have you tried configuring wlan0 from command line? there's something not working ...08:14
jpinxShadSEC: no - I haven't explored all that from the chroot yet - it's on my todo08:15
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ShadSECeverything is correctly setup but it just dont associate08:15
ShadSECI would need to know what exact commands is the connections manager using...08:15
ShadSECits uninportant from the the chroot or outside08:16
ShadSECit isnt working either for me :(08:16
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jpinxtrue - you should be able to do it from withing the chroot without issues - I need to look into all that08:17
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jpinxcurrently I cheat and use the wifi of my laptop over ssh/usb08:17
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ShadSECi havent tried the usb networking yet08:18
jpinxbut I am going to have to bite the bullet this weekend and get the "normal2 networking to behave08:19
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jpinxusb networking was not too difficult to configure, just get the gateway and static IP's right08:19
ShadSECjpix, its windows on this side...08:20
jpinxuse Putty?08:20
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ShadSECyeah, I mean the usb networking setup08:20
ShadSECnever tried08:20
ShadSECanyway I am ssh'ing via wifi-internet-3g-n90008:21
jpinxyea - putty in windows will give you linux-like ssh08:21
ShadSEConly problem is that i has a considerable lag08:21
jpinxwhat does ? My usb is fast08:22
ShadSECyep, usb might be better, perhaps tomorrow i will set it up08:22
ShadSECanyway is managng the wifi from command line what is giving me a headache08:23
ShadSECand it should be very easy, i dont understand it08:23
jpinxok - see you tomorrow maybe - I'm off08:24
openstandardswohoo i've manage to unbrick it08:25
ShadSECsee you jpinx08:25
openstandardscyas jpinx08:25
openstandardsShadSEC, a nice tool for when i used windows in the past was winscp....coping files over ssh :)08:27
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pigeongrrr, broken again somehow08:30
ShadSECopenstandards, yes, all about shh is great08:31
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openstandardsit is i love logging into my servers all the time08:32
openstandardssince flashing my phones lagging on everything08:33
pigeonon the n900 how are you supposed to bring up the software on screen keyboard?08:33
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pigeonit seems i have this problem since the first day, the virtual keyboard just won't show up when it should.08:44
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Munkiiihow can i make XChat join both Maemo and NITDroid channels on startup?09:20
Munkiiiat the moment it only joins Maemo09:20
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pigeonhmm, that's cute... kroll installs things under /home/user/09:50
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Munkiiianyone around to help?11:36
Munkiiii was just using the n900 optimized website version of google maps...11:37
Munkiiiwhen it asked "do you want this website to use your location"11:37
Munkiiii said "yes always"11:38
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Munkiiibut now i want to change that back to always ask11:38
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Munkiiianyone know how?11:38
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kerioMunkiii: ask timeless11:43
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MNZgood morning folks11:45
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keriogood morning MNZ11:50
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ech0Asusfinally fixed it :) did some updates on my n900 and then majority of images wouldn't load in any browser.. had to set user agent back..12:25
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lcukDestroid the game12:34
lcukannounced here
lcuksays that its high scores are stored in /home/opt/ ...12:35
lcukI thought user apps couldn't write into anywhere outside /home/user normally12:35
secyritasömm, of course they can12:36
secyritasuups, omm i meant12:36
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lcuksecyritas, hmm12:39
lcukNokia-N900:/root$ cd /home/opt12:39
lcukNokia-N900:/home/opt$ touch hmm12:39
lcuktouch: hmm: Permission denied12:39
lcuk(as user)12:39
* lcuk says meh and goes to the Science and Industry museum12:44
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jacekowskilcuk: where are you?13:10
jacekowskihmm, manchester13:10
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jacktheripperdoes anyone know if I could run mobile-hotspot with these modules here: ?13:42
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ZuccaHas anyone did any measuremets on how long battery will last when ssh kept open all day (say irc open on channel like this) with hight compression and nocompression at all?13:47
kerioZucca: wifi or gprs/umts?13:48
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Zuccakerio: gprs/umts.13:49
kerioZucca: hahaha13:49
kerioi'd say 8 hours13:49
kerioand i'm being optimistic13:49
Zuccakerio: It lasts my whole works day, but what I'm interested is wow ssh compression affects this.13:50
kerioit doesn't, really13:50
Zucca(damn typos)13:50
ZuccaYeah. I think I has very little meaning...13:51
ZuccaI keep ssh conccention open all the day. Usually it lasts cloes to 10 hrs.13:53
ZuccaWhen I keep...13:53
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nandanhow can I install ffmpeg on n900 device14:02
nandanany help14:02
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Dassu:( you want to do encoding on your n90014:06
pupniksure, to share videos with other devices for e.g.14:10
pupnikthat can't play your existing format14:10
pupnikwould be a nice gui program14:10
pupnik'encode for' 'nokia e71'14:11
SpeedEvilnandan: There is a complex answer - and there is
nandani want to install ffmpeg on n90014:12
nandanfor playing video14:13
SpeedEvil(in around a minute)14:13
nandannow i think we can play only mp414:13
SpeedEvilffmpeg does not play video14:13
SpeedEvilffplay will play video, but not sanely.14:13
SpeedEvilIt plays on the raw framebuffer device14:13
SpeedEvilumm - wrong14:13
SpeedEvilmplayer and the media player will play lots of types of files14:14
nandanya .....but for ffplay u need ffmpeg to install14:14
SpeedEvilffplay would need ported to run sanely14:14
SpeedEvilno you don't.14:14
SpeedEvilffplay and ffmpeg are quite seperate binaries14:14
SpeedEvilffplay cannot be used sanely on the n900 without porting, which as far as I'm aware, nobodies done.14:15
nandanya binary r separate but comes with name ffmpeg source code14:15
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nandanURL is not valid one14:16
SpeedEvilI deleted it14:16
SpeedEvilAs you said you weren't looking for ffmpeg14:16
nandanin general can u suggest hoe can i install a package on n90014:17
nandanwhich is ment for x86 arc14:17
SpeedEvilFor a random package, get the package source, port it to maemo, compile.14:17
nandani have tried with ffmpeg14:18
nandanand got some error14:18
SpeedEvilFor ffmpeg - the porting is null - just compile it. For ffplay - it's quite complex, and you need to implement some sort of window awareness.14:18
nandanwhile configuring I got error like14:19
SpeedEvilI don't remember any significant errors.14:19
nandanUnable to create temporary file in /var/tmp.14:19
SpeedEvilwell - fix that14:19
nandanhow to fix that14:19
nandanas i m compiling as root14:19
SpeedEvilOn the n900?14:20
SpeedEvilMove a copy of / into a chroot on /home - and compile there.14:20
SpeedEvilYou don't want to compile on the base system, for a number of reasons.14:20
SpeedEvilAlso - what you will end up with is a ffplay that plays flickery images in the corner of the framebuffer, overlayed badly over the existing content, with no UI at all.14:21
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nandanactually i installed ffmpeg using apt-get14:22
nandanand that plays video well using ffplay14:22
SpeedEvilWell - someones ported it then.14:22
nandannow i want to compile ffmpeg 4m svn14:22
SpeedEvilSo do.14:23
SpeedEvilGet the source of the package ffmpeg14:23
SpeedEvilCompare with stock ffmpeg14:23
SpeedEvilPatch those changes over14:23
nandanhow can i get source code that i installed using apt-get14:24
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nandanthanks SpeedEvil14:25
nandanalso can u tell how to install a new os /image on N90014:26
SpeedEvilFlash it.14:26
nandanya how to do that14:27
infobotrumour has it, flashing is
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pogis there a applet to check batterie capacity and powerconsumtion during uptime of N900. Mein N900 stopped once, and I'm not shure, wether it's due to emptiy batterie.14:49
valdynpog: u can see that when starting it again14:49
valdynpog: if it crashed it will tell you, if it didnt not, then there wont be a message14:50
pogit didn't seem to start. After hanging on the Adapter, it worked again, later.14:50
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pogah it can be seen when it was a crash.14:50
SpeedEvilpog: Do you know what a shellscript is?14:50
pogI know Linux rather well.14:51
pogthanks, I will have a look at that.14:51
SpeedEvilAn unpolished script - I hope to release a nice version of trhis this week to extras14:51
valdynpog: low battery will trigger a clean shutdown14:51
pogit will help me, thanks a lot14:52
pogo.k. then I can see, that the shutdown was o.k., if there is no error...14:52
valdynpog: on top of that, whenever *my* n900 crashes i have to remove the battery14:52
pogmay be, it's even possible to write a message in this case.14:53
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pogI is well possible, that it was a power problem.14:53
pogotherwise, my N900 runs reliably.14:54
crashanddielcukn900: well, the app could have its own user/group that has the permissions to write in a specific directory14:54
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valdynpog: my n900 crashes due to some pressure, in my pocket, not otherwise14:54
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crashanddieit crashes due to pressure?14:54
crashanddieWhat is it? A problem with its bladder?14:55
pogah, that's not so good.14:55
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pogI got a extra box for the N900, I hope this avoids the pressure problems...14:56
SpeedEvilPressure problems indicate a loose joint somehere thart is not likely to get better14:57
pogI might also be a contact with the batterie which fails, when moving the device.14:57
SpeedEvilOr maybe loose battery contacts14:57
SpeedEvilI've had that14:57
jacekowskivaldyn: not exactly clean shutdown14:57
SpeedEvilwith a tiny screwdriver, press the battery contacts a little towards the middle.14:57
SpeedEvilSo they grab the pins more firmly14:57
valdynSpeedEvil: i always have to remove the battery after such a crash14:58
SpeedEvilvaldyn: hmm. I'd say the first then.14:58
valdynmaybe ill just return it before warranty is over14:59
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jacekowskitry flashing it first14:59
valdyneither way the n900 has to many places where dust creeps in, maybe its just that15:00
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jacekowskibut somebody already had that problem15:02
jacekowskithat phone doesn't shut down correctly15:02
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valdynit does shut down correctly15:02
valdynjust not when it crashes15:02
valdynand it doesnt crash without physical contact or pressure of some kind that only happens when like sitting on it15:03
jacekowskiit may be crack on pcb15:04
jacekowskior something15:04
valdynjeans + n900  = always some pressure, but i cant reproduce it reliably15:04
valdynthanks for the hints..15:08
jacekowskitry flashing it15:09
jacekowskiit may be just something ellse15:09
jacekowskiand if that doesn't help15:09
jacekowskithen send it back15:09
crashanddieyou sit on your phone?15:12
crashanddieDepending on your weight, I'd understand the phone crashes.15:12
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* crashanddie starts writing MyChair and uploads it to devel. A software protective shield for all you phat geeks who sit on your phone, and have too much flab to feel it.15:14
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jacktheripperapple is releasing the iSit very soon15:15
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SpeedEvilThere are ways round that problem. iButtPlug15:15
crashanddie"If we're all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?"15:16
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Antonishello. I would like to ask something, I am using ubuntu is it possible to take a source app that I run on ubuntu and compile it to use on N900 running maemo?15:40
Stskeepswith qt, maybe15:42
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Antonisso i cant just take let's say xchat, cand compile it in my phone to get it running as it is?15:42
SpeedEvilIn principle, yes.15:42
SpeedEvilapt-get install xchat15:42
SpeedEvilYou can compile GTK/QT apps, and they 'just' work.15:43
Antonisis apt-get working on maemo? sorry if I ask dumb questions but I see maemo as another distro.. I don't know if it's debian based or not15:43
SpeedEvilFor various values of work.15:43
SpeedEvilxchat is in extras15:43
Antonisnice! is there a list of what packages that are included in the repos? (both enabled and disabled (if any))15:44
Antonisis it ?15:44
Antonisthank you. I would also like to see a list of phones running maemo as I only know of Nokia N900 atm :\ is there a better one? what phones do you own?15:46
SpeedEvilonly n90015:46
lioriAntonis: your list seems to be complete15:47
Antonisoh :p15:47
Antonisokay then! thanks15:47
psycho_oreosexpecting maemo to work on some other devices? lol15:48
kerioa list of phones?15:49
keriothe n900 is not a phone15:49
psycho_oreosproblem is that when a device has phone capability, people assume its a phone15:50
psycho_oreosespecially small handheld devices15:50
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keriothe n900 *has* a phone15:50
lioriphone: noun, an instrument for reproducing sounds at a distance; specifically : one in which sound is converted into electrical impulses for transmission (as by wire or radio waves)15:51
kerioit's right there as phonet015:51
kerioliori: so a computer is a phone?15:51
SpeedEvilkerio: Go away. It's sold as a phone, it's a phone. Move on.15:51
psycho_oreoswireless dongles/cards would also be deemed as a phone ;)15:51
psycho_oreosbluetooth, 3G/HSDPA/HSUPA/etc15:52
liorikerio: yes, of course, as long as it has software...15:52
Antonisnokia does sell it as a phone so I call it a phone :P15:54
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keriothe n900 integrates a screenless phone15:54
keriothat's used to route audio calls and gprs data15:54
AntonisI am just affraid that 256MB of ram isn't enough15:54
lioriAntonis: you just made me feel old15:55
Antonislol, why is that?15:55
liorii used to do quite a lot on a 1MB machine15:56
SpeedEvil256M is fine.15:56
SpeedEvilMore would benicer.15:56
psycho_oreos256MB RAM with 768MB swap that sits on Flash based memory and you're saying its not enough?15:56
SpeedEvilBut the problems are not RAM based15:57
oscillikdoes anyone know how to clear the cache for the email application? it literally takes 20 seconds to open an email now, and it never used to :(15:57
kerioModest is pure crap15:57
oscillikindeed it is. within the first few days after i reflash, it was quick. opened an email in 2-3 secs. now it takes upwards of 20-30secs15:57
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: in other words, just 256 MB15:58
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: flash memory is SLOW15:58
luke-jrAntonis: Nokia *doesn't* sell it as a phone…15:58
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Bullshit15:58
luke-jrat least nowhere I've seen15:58
psycho_oreosluke-jr, it isn't that bad, it could just be pure 256MB like iphone 3/3G and you'll have to put up with killed applications/quitting applications because there simply isn't enough RAM no?15:59
luke-jrtheir site says15:59
luke-jr"mobile computer"15:59
* kerio hugs luke-jr 15:59
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: not sure which is worse15:59
SpeedEvilPage title. 'buy the nokia n900 mobile phone here'15:59
psycho_oreosluke-jr, I think 256MB RAM with no ability to setup swap is worse16:00
psycho_oreosluke-jr, try n95-1 (non-NAM version)16:00
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luke-jrN900 isn't even listed in Nokia USA's store anymore16:01
SpeedEvilStill pimps 'files'16:02
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luke-jrthe rest of the uk page says "mobile computer"16:02
luke-jrI think the phone bit was an error16:02
SpeedEvilIt is sold as a phoneby many carriers.16:03
luke-jrhaha yeah right16:03
luke-jrlike I'm going to believe carriers sell N90016:03
oscillikthey do16:03
oscillikVodafone sells it16:03
Stskeepsluke-jr: in US, maybe not16:03
luke-jrwtf is Vodafone? :P16:03
oscillikUK mobile phone network16:03
FIQ|n900some nordic operator16:03
Antonisin sweden telenor (vodafone) sells it16:03
FIQ|n900and eu16:03
oscillikthe first one here in the UK16:03
Antonisand I think Comviq does as well16:03
luke-jrin any case, those companies do *phone service*16:04
luke-jrof course they're going to stress it as a "phone"16:04
lioriorange planned to sell it in poland, but they changed their mind16:04
oscillikluke-jr: what about the dell streak?16:04
kerioh3g ita does sell it16:04
Stskeepsliori: then again n900 is fairly expensive for a typical pole pay..16:04
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luke-jroscillik: what about it16:05
oscillikit's sold by carriers over here, and that's not a phone16:05
lioriStskeeps: this is not a device for typical person16:05
Stskeepsyeah, that i know16:06
lioriand IT people earn more even in poland :-)16:06
keriobecause a typical person would use a mobile phone16:07
luke-jrkerio: there's more cell phones than people in the world IIRC :P16:08
keriolast i heard, italy's cellphones/people avg. was at like 616:08
oscilliki have three16:10
jacekowskiStskeeps: cheaper than iphone but more people have iphone16:15
keriothe iphone is hip16:16
Stskeepsi guess it says a lot about the attitude when most commercials for these type of products come with "X zt per month" announcements instead of the whole price..16:16
kerioit's also a phone16:16
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Antonisis it possible to run meego on n900?16:16
jacekowskibut the thing is that same contract with same phone costs 50% mroe in poland16:16
jacekowskiAntonis: yes16:16
jacekowskiand apple stuff sometimes costs 3x as much as everywhere else16:17
psycho_oreosthat's normal16:17
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Antonisjacekowski, is it something like an upgrade or? I mean if I buy n900 it will run maemo 5. how can I install meego?16:18
psycho_oreosI think you'll find it will cost x amounts over the normal pricing compared to buying it direct from the source of manufacture :p16:18
jacekowskiAntonis: google16:18
jacekowskiAntonis: but it's not going to be supported16:19
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: you still need a contract16:19
psycho_oreosand its not complete16:19
psycho_oreosjacekowski, yes, no diff, that's typical of apple's stance ;)16:19
jacekowskiand here contract with 400minutes and texts and internet costs £25 which would be around 110zl16:19
jacekowskibah t-mobile is doing £10/mo with internet and 60 minutes and texts16:20
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AntonisN900 is a handset16:27
valdynAntonis: meego is not useful right now16:28
valdynAntonis: except for developers16:28
oscilliki'm on giffgaff16:29
Antonisvaldyn, yeap I read about it.. but i also read that it will not be supported or released for n900.16:29
AntonisOnly a developer version will be16:29
Antonisor is16:29
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Ken-YoungDOes anyone know of a way to see the distribution of 1, 2 .. 5 star ratings for an individual app in the Extras repository?16:38
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crashanddieKen-Young: how so?16:52
Ken-Youngcrashanddie, I'm just wondering if there is a way to see the distribution of different star ratings a particular app listed on has.16:54
infobotKen-Young meant: crashanddie, I'm just wondering if there is a way to see the distribution of different star ratings a particular app listed on has.16:54
crashanddieKen-Young: based on the versions of a specific app?16:54
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Ken-Youngcrashanddie, shows a sort of graphic representation of the average number of stars users have given an app in their ratings.   It also lists how many ratings have been issued.   I was hoping there was a way to find the number of 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 star ratings there were, that produced the average shown."16:56
crashanddienot available AFAIK16:56
Ken-Youngcrashanddie, OK, thanks.   It's certainly not an important thing.   I was just curious.16:57
RST38hwhat is new and exciting?16:58
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vHandaQuick Question : Hermes doesn't seem to import my facebook contact birthdays. I checked and it's a reported bug.17:01
* GAN900 wants an A15 for his file server.17:02
vHandaI cloned the source code. Would I have to get the whole maemo sdk. If I want to work on hermes?17:02
vHandaI have a couple of spare hours. I thought I'll try to fix the bug :)17:03
GAN900Why do people come to bookstores and ask for Kindles?17:04
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GAN900Holy piece of shit17:19
RST38h"kindle" = "ebook reader"17:19
GAN900Can't unlock this thing without entering swap hell.17:19
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RST38hlike "google", you know...17:19
RST38hGAN: swappiness to 30, quit ham17:19
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JaffaRST38h: Where's the value for swappiness again?17:22
RST38ha moment17:22
RST38hJaffa: /etc/init.d/rcS17:23
jacekowski /proc/sys/vm/swappiness17:24
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JaffaRST38h: jacekowski: thanks17:24
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petteriis there any way to force application to fullscreen when using X forwaring. I use spotify from my desktop, but the search form is under the left corner menu (where clock and stuff are)17:26
petteri-geom? tell me more?17:27
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lcukKhertan_, !!17:57
fralslcuk !!17:59
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lcukafternoon frals17:59
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fralshows you?18:00
lcukI am ok, had a (cut short) visit to the Manchester Museum of Science and Technology with Tracy n Jake18:00
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GAN900Those are always fun.18:04
GAN900Minus the cutting of the durationing.18:04
lcukGAN900, yeah - theres loads to see and play with - plus theres trains, so its actually easy to convince jake to go18:06
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GAN900Sounds like we could use the same incentive for frals.18:07
lcuktheres a trout museum in Helsinki :P18:07
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lcukI dunno how, but I had not seen the textiles area last time I went18:08
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lcukthey had an awesome Jacquard loom which took punch cards18:08
* lcuk got photos and will decode them 18:08
GAN900The one on Baltimore has a massive barb- and razor-wire collection.18:09
GAN900Complete history.18:09
GAN900Didn't /. have a story about punchcard looms the other day?18:09
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lcukGAN900, i hope thats one collection thats not really hands on!18:13
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lcuka rather generic look at application installation and updates18:23
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BluesLeehow do i switch to the phone storage of the sim card?18:26
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keriofor what?18:27
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GAN900Why would you want to store on SIM?18:28
kerioyou can access them from the contacts18:28
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lcukGAN900, technically contacts stored on sim are easier to switch between devices (switch sim, contacts go with it etc)18:33
lcukbut the contacts on n900 are more advanced and stuff18:33
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DocScrutinizeranyway, there's no method in maemo to store contacts to SIM, that I know of18:44
DocScrutinizerjust import _from_ SIM18:45
DocScrutinizeryou *might* be able to edit SIM contacts using Kandy or gnokii18:46
DocScrutinizeror via pnatd, the generic way :-P18:46
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* DocScrutinizer ponders idly to write an exploit for maemo19:00
jaskaand make free phone calls?:)19:01
DocScrutinizerSeems it really needs an exploit out in the wild, for Nokia starts feeling like getting active19:03
DocScrutinizeror has there been any security fix update to flashplayer on maemo that I missed?19:04
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SpeedEvilWhich will lead to PR1.3 that removes flash19:07
DocScrutinizertimeless: this security advisory is ~10 weeks old now. Are you aware of any action Nokia is planing to address this vulnerability?19:08
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: heh :-P19:08
Gh0stypr1.3 ? which will come out AFTER duke nukem forever is released? :p19:10
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: exactly :-P19:13
RST38hYou mean, after pr1.3 removes flash all the19:15
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RST38hsepeople will stop whining about lack of flash10 support?19:16
GAN900We dropped Flash.19:16
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kerioGh0sty: huh? DNF will be released in 201119:18
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: honestly, even a hotfix from Nokia disabling flash all together - **until proper measure (update to flash10.1.53.64) is taken** - would be much better, than just ignoring the issue completely19:18
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, yes, but this is NOKIA.19:20
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: while Nokia never promised to support and develop maemo beyond what you got when buying the device, I think they still are liable for fixing critical vulnerabilities in their products19:21
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RST38hDoc: Apparently, Nokia never even promised to make Cut&Paste work in Modest19:21
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RST38hDoc: So, looks like relying on Nokia promising anything is kinda fruitless19:22
DocScrutinizermeans users could sue them for all damage suffered from some exploit using this flash vulnerability19:22
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RST38hYou can, of course, sue Nokia, but why?19:23
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: *I* won't do that. I said *users* caould, and I don't know *why* they usually do19:24
Gh0styusers won't buy it anymore19:24
Gh0styand there goes a good product ...19:25
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RST38hDoc: Users will (and do) take the easier route19:25
RST38hDoc: They are buying Android19:25
DocScrutinizerRST38h: buying andridiot device won't pay the carrier bill of any N900 user who suffered an exploit of flash vulnerability and found his phone calling 0900-* premium charged numbers without him noticing19:28
RST38hDoc: But it will prevent that from happening again and provide the user with reasonable support for his newdevice19:29
DocScrutinizermaybe, but that's not exactly the point of my rant19:29
RST38hDoc: Your rant is about Nokia absolutely having to update N900 Flash player NOW19:31
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RST38hDoc: You know the answer to that - No. We do not care. We do not have to. We are the phone company.19:31
DocScrutinizeryes, or at least take any other action to cope with the threat19:31
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RST38hDoc: So there is no reason to rant, won't change a thing19:31
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sevardAAAArggg I have a blue light flashing on my n810 and it won't go away.  No applications open, no updates available, not logged into chat, i reboot and it come back after boot.  any suggestions?19:33
DocScrutinizersevard: use dbus-monitor started during boot, to find out which process is sending a comand to mce to start that blue flashing19:36
* RST38h desperately wants Oolite for N90019:38
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DocScrutinizermight be any process started during boot that thinks there's something new (an unread mail or anything) that needs blue flashing to signal to user about it, then later this process quits ungracefully and mce never gets notice to stop the blue flashing19:38
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sevardDocScrutinizer: what.. should dbus be saying19:41
DocScrutinizersevard: also mce itself might got confused, check mce.ini file if it maybe was changed in a way mce doesn't like19:41
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DocScrutinizersevard: something like `dbus-monitor --system | grep -C15 led_pattern19:45
DocScrutinizersevard: refer to
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GAN900RST38h, I know aegidian and Ahruman from Redline.19:58
GAN900RST38h, I guess I need to convince them.19:58
sevard<3 DocScrutinizer19:59
RST38hOolite is written in that horrible ObjectiveC thing andrequires the whole OpenNeXTstep framework19:59
RST38hSo, not sure how easy it will be to port...19:59
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DocScrutinizer51sevard: so what's been the cause?20:05
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GAN900RST38h, ah, right, forgot about that.20:08
GAN900Perhaps if you buy them both N900s and give them about $10k.20:08
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`Francesca_Lucchdoes n900 have any good headsets with controller"?20:10
RST38h...or simply run Spectrumversion on Speccy...20:12
`Francesca_Lucchthat sux ive reade blutooth once suck to20:13
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DocScrutinizer`Francesca_Lucch: stop that!20:14
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`Francesca_Lucchstop what ?20:14
`Francesca_Lucchdont tell me youre client dont support it20:14
RST38hit does not20:14
`Francesca_Lucchutf-8 show and encode20:14
DocScrutinizer`Francesca_Lucch: simply stop it20:15
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DocScrutinizerbtw ""that sux ive reade blutooth once suck to"" doesn't make any sense at all, not to talk about spelling20:16
`Francesca_Lucchseems i go for headphones only20:16
`Francesca_Lucchwell sorry my english is not perfect20:17
`Francesca_Lucchits not even 10%20:17
`Francesca_Lucchim only dutch afterall20:17
`Francesca_Lucchso is there no plugin that can fix the headset controllers ?20:18
`Francesca_Lucchdarn i thought nokia would add something to support it , its a nokia afterall20:19
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DassuI remember reading about some deamon that could bind those keys. Just search the forums20:22
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DocScrutinizer51Dassu: not for wired headsets. For BT it actually should work20:27
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DocScrutinizerrefer to tmo post, link above20:31
`Francesca_Lucchso bt headsets work humm20:31
`Francesca_Lucchtobad the bd once are crap20:31
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merlin1991hey, since today my n900 tells me "network connection error, try again?" whenever I try to connect to a wireless network, gprs/umts works though, anywhere I can get a more decent error message?20:36
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lcukhey merline i saw on #liqbase to see #maemo :P20:36
keriotry ifupping it20:36
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lcukmerlin1991, retry as suggested, if it still doesnt work, reboot and pop out the battery and spin device around 270degrees20:37
lcukthe spinning is important20:37
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merlin1991hm sudo ifup wlan0 --> ifup ignoring unkown interface wlan020:38
skiburJust a very simple question.20:39
skiburAnybody running OS2008 on there N800?20:39
tank-manskibur, isnt that the latest one for n800?20:40
tank-mani am20:40
skiburDiablo would be the latest20:40
tank-manyea i have that20:41
tank-mansurvey done ? :)20:41
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merlin1991hm kerio, ifup eth0 --> ifup: don't seem to have all the variables for eth0/inet20:42
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merlin1991any ideas what I could try, except flashing?20:46
lcukbattery out etc20:46
lcukDocScrutinizer, (reading scrollback) don't be a fucktart20:46
merlin1991btw all I can think of what I did regarding networking, was playing around with /etc/resolv.conf a bit20:47
lcukyour suggestion earlier.20:47
DocScrutinizersorry, but seems you need to elaborate20:48
lcuknahh i will let you decide which one of your suggestions I would feel so strongly against20:49
DocScrutinizersorry, I'll fail on that task20:49
infobotfrom memory, flashing is
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felipeckulve: ping20:53
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I hope you don't consider writing and publishing an exploit PoC without rogue payload a fucktard thing20:54
felipecanyone has any idea where to get powertop?20:55
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SpeedEvilYou may or may not find useful too20:56
DocScrutinizerok, SpeedEvil was faster than me.20:56
felipechmm, I thought I had enabled extras-devel20:57
DocScrutinizeranyway, maybe it helps for something:
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felipecDocScrutinizer: thanks, but I guess the one in extras-devel should be the latest one21:03
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* merlin1991 flashed, lets see if it helps21:16
felipechmm, I get crashes with powertop21:17
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lcukfelipec, hmm21:20
lcukwhich build?21:20
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SpeedEvilYou're not overclocking?21:22
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SpeedEvilPowrertop is as far as I'm aware doing nothing more than reading various /proc and /sys files21:23
SpeedEvilItr does nothing 'invasive'21:23
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bef0rd:) hi21:24
bef0rdI just formated the internal mmc by mistake :P is it possible to get the 'default nokia files' somehow?21:25
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felipecSpeedEvil: nope, no overclocking21:26
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rtylerhowdy everybody, I'm wondering if anybody is syncing calendars from remote providers like Yahoo or Google with their maemo 5 devices?21:38
Arkenoii do21:39
rtylerArkenoi: are you using GPE Calendar or something else?21:39
Arkenoivia MfE and Nuevasync21:39
Arkenoino, just default calendar21:39
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rtylerwhat's MfE short for?21:40
jacekowskimail for exchange21:40
rtylerah, I see:
jacekowski~MfE is Mail for Exchange21:40
infobotokay, jacekowski21:40
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mfe is Mail for Exchange21:40
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rtylerArkenoi: and you trust nuevasync with your information like that o_O21:41
infoboti guess tmo is, or too much off-topic21:41
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mohammadag is a package maintainer that would jump off a cliff if crashanddie asked him to21:41
rtylerouch, I got the buzzer sooner than expected21:41
Arkenoirtyler: kind of. i have no other options ;-)21:41
rtylerso I suppose if I can find a way to setup an exchange-server that does forwarding of calendaring/contacts for my accounts, I'd be set21:42
Arkenoithere is syncevolution but i was unable to get it working21:42
Arkenoisome obscure errors on google side and that's all21:42
Arkenoiand direct MfE sync does not work as well21:43
rtylerdirect to an exchange server? or direct to google?21:43
Arkenoirtyler, if you know how to sync your exchange with your remote provider, it should work21:43
Arkenoirtyler, direct to google, i have no exchange21:44
* rtyler nods21:44
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rtylerjacekowski: so I suppose besides the MfE hack you don't have any other ideas for sync?21:46
* rtyler thinks syncevolution might be a bridge too far21:46
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`Francesca_Lucchhumm seems n900 has lots trouble connecting to a windows 7 system21:55
`Francesca_Lucchonlyone that works always is the memory card21:55
ShadowJKwhat the hell does "connecting to <any> system" actually mean?21:55
`Francesca_Lucchbut not the pc suite or the massa memory21:55
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niekvlesserthow can i make my phone recieve a message through bluetooth when entering bluetooth range?21:57
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bef0rd`Francesca_Lucch, I was able to connect it to a Windows 7 Professional x64 with Ovi Suite22:01
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`Francesca_Lucchwell it worked the 1st 20 times with connecting22:01
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`Francesca_Lucchthe icons came up under "my computer"22:02
`Francesca_Lucchbut latly it dont22:02
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heyyawhat can the IR feature be used for besides controlling tvs?22:44
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Pavelheyya: I've used it on cameras as well.22:44
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SpeedEvilI use it for controlling elephants.22:46
heyyalol, what else?22:48
jacekowskiblind cameras with night vision22:49
jacekowskiso you can sneak past them without being recorded22:49
jacekowskiso when you steal stuff at night all they have is just nothing22:49
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heyyai dont think the IR port on the n900 is very powerful22:52
heyyain terms of output22:52
jacekowskienough to make your face invisible to the camera22:53
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niekvlessertre there docs about provisioning an maemo phone through sms?22:56
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crashanddieMy girlfriend just did the best lapsus ever22:58
crashanddieRight in front of my grand-aunt22:59
crashanddieI ask "You wanna go upstairs?"22:59
crashanddieShe replies "You wanna f[stutter]uck-Finish 'Finder's Fee'?"22:59
crashanddieluckily, my grand aunt doesn't really understand English all that well.22:59
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niekvlesserti want to provision wifi+sip settings through sms and it shouldn't matter what brand your phone is. Is that even possible?23:04
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jacekowskiniekvlessert: no23:23
jacekowskiniekvlessert: most phones don't do sip23:23
jacekowskiand lot of them have no wifi23:24
niekvlessertyou'll be suprised how many do these days...23:24
niekvlessertnobody uses it, but that's something else23:24
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ShadowJKWhenever a new phone comes out it takes a few weeks before my operator has realized it and created settings for it23:32
ShadowJKso that makes me think it's all per-device23:32
ShadowJKinstead of a generic format for settings23:32
ShadowJKI think N900 doesn't receive settings well :P23:33
ShadowJKI only got some broken WAP settings from my operator23:33
ShadowJKwhereas with my E75 I even got SIP settings :-)23:33
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niekvlessertyou got SIP settings? great stuff23:38
niekvlesserti think those messages are kinda standard23:38
niekvlessertproviders can't support all phones and all firmwares all the time23:38
niekvlessertso i guess it's the other way around23:38
niekvlessertthe phone creators just should make 'm work23:38
heyyajacekowski: which app turns on the IR port to try this blinding?23:40
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ShadowJKThere's an app for controlling digital cameras too23:41
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep, it's been revealed by german mag c't some years ago. All cmos cam chips have some IR decoder implemented in chip firmware/hardware, to control such things like freeze-frame, blackout whole picture or parts of it, even upload artifact frame data to expose via freeze-frame after upload finished. It's said the American CIA or NSA has a secret agreement with chip manufs for doing this23:48
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ShadowJKactually cameras come with remotes these days23:50
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: this is another channel to control the sensor chip directly though. Usable on virtually every surveillance cam, if you have the right remote control to send the IR codes directly to the sensor23:51
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