IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-09-10

RST38h	thanksss	00:00
RST38h	somebody slipped perl-base onto the device	00:00
RST38h	I wonder who...	00:01
* FIQ\|n900 hides		00:01
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* chadi slaps healthcheck		00:01
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pupnik	what's new RST38h	00:01
RST38h	ah, it is needed by dpkg	00:02
RST38h	pupnik: not much,same old shit	00:02
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RST38h	procrastinating, rather than upgrading fbreader to 0.12.*	00:03
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pupnik	RST38h: i just took bread out of initial rise, kneaded it about 10 times, and have now set it in the oven for final-rise.	00:13
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xtophe	Hello, do you know how long flashing a N900 is supposed to take ?	00:16
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baraujo	xtophe, IIRC, minutes	00:17
jacekowski	emmc or combined?	00:17
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xtophe	jacekowski: both	00:17
SpeedEvil	xtophe: around a minute.	00:17
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xtophe	hmm been 12 already	00:18
xtophe	so i do sth wrong	00:18
jacekowski	is it flashing?	00:18
jacekowski	or does it say waiting	00:18
xtophe	it say waiting	00:19
SpeedEvil	then its not flashing	00:19
jacekowski	then it's not flashing	00:19
* xtophe should learn to read		00:19
jacekowski	~flashing	00:19
infobot	i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	00:19
jacekowski	RTFM	00:19
* zap heard 'flashing' means turning on and off		00:21
crashanddie	no, flashing is actually showing your privates	00:22
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crashanddie	http://www.gtspirit.com/2010/09/09/video-jeremy-clarkson-on-stig-gate-scandal/ <-- pretty interesting stuff Clarkson says	00:22
orangey	hello all	00:22
jacekowski	tits and stuff	00:22
orangey	I'm having some serious issues with VOIP in my N900.. How can I figure out which codecs it's using?	00:23
orangey	I recall seeing lists of INVITEs and so on on mailing lists, but I'm not sure how to generate that	00:23
orangey	is there some kind of debug command?	00:23
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orangey	Anyhow, the essence of my problem is that I can't hear the other party at random intervals for ~5-100 seconds at a time	00:23
orangey	it doesn't appear network related.	00:23
orangey	and only happens with SIP, not skype or whatnot	00:24
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crashanddie	orangey: well, network is a relative thing, where is your SIP server based?	00:25
orangey	US and I'm in canada	00:25
orangey	rather, I actually think the server is canadian	00:25
orangey	acanac	00:25
crashanddie	orangey: anyway, /etc/stream-engine/gstcodecs.conf	00:25
orangey	crashanddie: I've played with that	00:25
orangey	however, even when I comment out all codecs, the problem still occurs	00:25
orangey	even though I theoretically should hear nothing, right?	00:26
orangey	I put id=-1	00:26
orangey	anyhow, there's someway to debug further I know.. I want to see what codec it's actually using	00:26
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crashanddie	well, you're most probably using PCMA	00:26
crashanddie	considering that's what the N900 prefers	00:26
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crashanddie	basically, about SIP, "it depends"	00:27
* noobmonk3y blinks		00:27
* noobmonk3y looks @chadi		00:27
crashanddie	if the server prefers ILBC, and their "preference setting" is higher than the N900's preference setting for PCMU, you'll use ILBC	00:27
* noobmonk3y prods crashanddie		00:27
chadi	hey healthcheck! long time no see :-)	00:28
crashanddie	noobmonk3y: yes?	00:28
noobmonk3y	hehehe :) real life got in the way :P hehe how are you doing? :)	00:28
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noobmonk3y	just saying hello crash	00:28
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crashanddie	orangey: the syslog should tell you more though	00:28
orangey	crashanddie: where is the syslog?	00:29
orangey	/var/log/syslog?	00:29
noobmonk3y	you okay chadi?	00:29
noobmonk3y	i'm currently trying to re-learn via the sdk to redo healthcheck :) hehehe	00:29
chadi	redo it?	00:29
chadi	I'm great	00:29
noobmonk3y	yeah kinda, and add alot more :0	00:30
noobmonk3y	ie, constant update, and smoother screens	00:30
noobmonk3y	lots more info to add too	00:30
noobmonk3y	in my absence, had alot of extra info to add :P	00:30
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chadi	yeah lots of stuff on paper waiting to be implemented :P	00:30
noobmonk3y	had about 40 emails in the last month with ideas and help :) - so as soon as i get back into the swing will give it a retry :)	00:31
noobmonk3y	hehehe, yeah.... tis good to learn :0	00:31
chadi	rewrite it in c++ :P	00:31
noobmonk3y	tis the aim :P	00:31
noobmonk3y	trying to figure out ersbox, then to learn c++ - never done it :	00:32
noobmonk3y	esbox*	00:32
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chadi	enjoy ;-)	00:32
crashanddie	orangey: for the record, I'm a developer on a VoIP/SIP server. I mainly use ngrep to check out what's happening on the SIP port.	00:32
noobmonk3y	but then python took me 2 weeks, b4 i had healthcheck going, so hoping c++ wont take too much longer :)	00:32
crashanddie	(ngrep which IIRC isn't available on the N900)	00:32
noobmonk3y	crash can you tell me what iirc means? heard it hundreds of time, just never understood it!	00:33
noobmonk3y	:)	00:33
crashanddie	if i recall correctly	00:33
chadi	if i recall correctly	00:33
noobmonk3y	ahaaaaaaa ty :)	00:33
noobmonk3y	to both :)	00:33
orangey	aha! tcpdump is the key	00:33
chadi	heh	00:33
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crashanddie	orangey: if you have the time, just grab ngrep sources from debian-src, and compile it on the n900	00:34
crashanddie	orangey: shouldn't require too many dependencies	00:34
noobmonk3y	but yes, back to healthcheck, the idea is now to rutn it into an actual application, not a "my first attempt" stuyle app	00:34
noobmonk3y	turn*	00:34
orangey	yikes	00:34
noobmonk3y	stylee*	00:34
orangey	why when tcpdump is already compiled?	00:34
crashanddie	orangey: because ngrep is a lot nicer than tcpdump :P	00:34
noobmonk3y	p.s. chadi, good to see you still on here :) :)	00:35
orangey	crashanddie: godwilling, my relationship with tcpdump will be short	00:35
lindi-	crashanddie: just run tcpdump on n900 and pipe it to ngrep on PC :)	00:35
* noobmonk3y slaps MohammadAG51		00:35
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crashanddie	lindi-: shudder	00:35
* noobmonk3y wscreams BACOn in lcuk's good ear		00:35
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chadi	noobmonk3y: good luck :)	00:35
lindi-	crashanddie: running some complex filtering as root is a bad idea anyway	00:35
noobmonk3y	cheers :)	00:35
orangey	lindi-: nice : )	00:36
orangey	speaking of which, what repository is tcpdump on?	00:36
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orangey	i can only find it in the garage	00:36
crashanddie	lindi-: thanks, I need to be taught about security ;)	00:36
orangey	aha. got it	00:36
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orangey	http://maemo.org/packages/view/tcpdump/	00:37
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trumee	orangey: sip on N900 is very buggy	00:38
trumee	orangey: See bug #10388	00:38
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem?	00:38
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trumee	orangey: I have tried all sort of codecs with both asterisk and freeswitch servers and have failed.	00:39
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trumee	even Nokia/Collabora devs have acknowledged (taken sip traces off my setup) the bug, but until now there has been no fix.	00:40
orangey	trumee: did disabling power saving on wlan help?	00:40
trumee	orangey: not suprised that sip isnt working for you	00:40
trumee	orangey: no, did not help	00:40
crashanddie	weird	00:40
trumee	i tried even usb networking!	00:40
crashanddie	I'm having no issues with SIP	00:40
orangey	trumee: strange.	00:40
trumee	and that also gave me choppy audio	00:40
orangey	crashanddie: who's your provider?	00:41
orangey	trumee: I don't have choppy audio generally	00:41
* RST38h cackles evilly		00:41
orangey	Skype works beautifully	00:41
orangey	most SIP works fine	00:41
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crashanddie	orangey: well... I'm a dev... I have my own servers	00:41
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lindi-	crashanddie: what sip software are you running btw?	00:41
trumee	crashanddie: so am i. run my own * server.	00:41
RST38h	devs do not have their own servers, admins do =)	00:41
orangey	but there are a few completely predictable numbers that cause no end of problems	00:41
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orangey	crashanddie: ah.	00:41
crashanddie	trumee: ours is a bit more advanced than *	00:41
crashanddie	heck, I have my own audiocodes and everything	00:42
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trumee	orangey: collabora dev said that there is bug is gstreamer jitter library on N900	00:42
crashanddie	I haven't used my ISP's SIP a lot, but didn't notice anything strange there either	00:42
orangey	trumee: any fix at all?	00:43
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orangey	trumee: like I said, mostly it works with most people even on SIP	00:43
orangey	which leads me to believe it's a codec problem	00:43
trumee	orangey: no there is no fix yet :(	00:43
trumee	orangey: i have been pushing the dev to do something about it but seems its not in the priority list at the moment.	00:43
trumee	orangey: funny thing is the meego is going to carry the same bug since it uses the same libraries	00:44
trumee	so i would stay away from meego until that bug is fixed.	00:44
trumee	crashanddie: i am more than happy for you to call an extension of my freeswitch server and listen to an audio book	00:45
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trumee	crashanddie: it gets choppy few minutes into the call.	00:45
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crashanddie	audio book?	00:45
crashanddie	trumee: what timezone are you in?	00:45
trumee	crashanddie: yes, something i have set on auto-pickup.	00:45
trumee	crashanddie: BST	00:45
crashanddie	trumee: I'll give you a buzz tomorrow morning then	00:46
crashanddie	trumee: I could even set up a couple of calls and get some accurate measurements if I have the time...	00:46
trumee	crashanddie: nah!, i will be away to work. I am on irc only on BST evenings.	00:46
orangey	hmm.	00:46
orangey	I'm not seeing any INVITE packets	00:47
crashanddie	yeah, and I don't intend to do SIP troubleshooting at 15 minutes to midnight :P	00:47
trumee	crashanddie: however, i can gibe you the login details and you can do the testing in my absence	00:47
orangey	does tcpdump show the actual packets, or just that a packet went through?	00:47
trumee	crashanddie: want to give me an email or want the setting on a private chat?	00:48
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orangey	honestly, after this last depressing run, I feel that it may be time to abandon the n900	00:48
orangey	though it would pain me to use any non-free tool	00:49
kerio	nooo :(	00:49
orangey	I know.	00:49
orangey	it's multifactorial, though - there's almost no AWS in canada	00:49
orangey	so I'm using GPRS with this damned thing	00:49
orangey	plus the VOIP issues	00:49
orangey	and the obvious and widely known lack of apps	00:50
orangey	any one is surmountable	00:50
trumee	orangey: i can feel your pain. i cant throw away my N95 because of this voip bug	00:50
orangey	trumee: sigh	00:51
trumee	orangey: i went into coma for some time when i couldnt get sip to work reliably :(	00:51
orangey	trumee: honestly, the worst part is that Nokia released a non-maemo phone after the n900	00:51
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trumee	i bought two N900, one for myself and one for wife hoping to do sip calls. and now they are both a waste	00:51
orangey	That's enough whining for me	00:51
orangey	trumee: maybe salvage it by getting a SIP account elsewhere	00:51
orangey	trumee: e.g., callcentric	00:52
trumee	orangey: the same server works beautifully with N95	00:52
orangey	trumee: callcentric + n900 worked perfectly for me	00:52
orangey	trumee: when you're playing with maemo, YOU have to be fixed, not the problem	00:52
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* orangey cries		00:52
trumee	orangey: i run my own * server and have remote extensions given to family members. they have become used to simple phone numbers. i cant ask them to go back to sip isps.	00:52
orangey	trumee: what's the setup?	00:53
orangey	trumee do you interact with the POTS system at all?	00:53
trumee	orangey: * server connected to couple of remote sip extensions	00:53
trumee	no POTS at all.	00:53
orangey	that would be sweet	00:53
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trumee	i have set of Linksys PAP2/SPA3102 with family members	00:54
orangey	you have basically a bat phone	00:54
orangey	they do one line for you and one for the rest of the world	00:54
* DocScrutinizer yaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaawns		00:54
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trumee	and everybody has simple phone number. i hate ISP phone number, usually they are pretty long.	00:54
DocScrutinizer	giraffe time again?	00:55
orangey	trumee: what about rerouting?	00:55
trumee	orangey: what do you mean?	00:55
orangey	trumee: forward callcentric to your asterix box	00:55
orangey	see if that doesn't solve your problem	00:55
orangey	it sounds like it shouldn't, but such trickery has occasionally resolved issues for me	00:56
kerio	it's MOO time	00:56
orangey	masters of orion?	00:56
trumee	orangey: N900<>callcentric<>asterisk<>remote extensions?	00:56
DocScrutinizer	~moo	00:56
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass		00:56
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orangey	trumee: right.	00:56
RST38h	Moo?	00:57
orangey	trumee: first make sure everything works N900 <>callcentric <> N900	00:57
orangey	since you have 2 around	00:57
orangey	there's your video + audio	00:57
orangey	once that's done, add the asterisk piece	00:57
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trumee	orangey: could try that. but my impression is that Sip to Sip calls on N900 are a fail. If i introduce a PSTN in between then it is ok, ie N900<>*<>ISP<>PSTN	00:58
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, plus some mixedpickles	00:58
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SpeedEvil	http://blogs.arm.com/smart-mobile-devices/watts-the-limit-for-smart-mobile-devices-meet-the-cortexa15/ hmm	00:59
DocScrutinizer	BS there's no such thing like SIP<>PSTN	00:59
trumee	DocScrutinizer: ?	00:59
DocScrutinizer	SIP by definition needs a SIP farend to talk to	00:59
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DocScrutinizer	if you want to call PSTN via SIP, then you need to use a gateway	01:00
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trumee	DocScrutinizer: ok. ISP<>Gateway<>PSTN, happy?	01:00
DocScrutinizer	yeah, a tad better	01:00
trumee	doesnt solve my problem though. Not sure why Nokia went for a new sipstack when the Symbian one was working so well.	01:01
trumee	N95 sipstack is amazing. It does g729 so well. With N900, g729 eats up 55% cpu.	01:02
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orangey	trumee: I think that's the problem	01:03
trumee	DocScrutinizer: maybe once your port twinkle to qt4, then all will be ok :p	01:03
orangey	trumee: the person I'm trying to talk to who I have serious issues with is on the same provider (acanac), so we're probably having end-to-end SIP	01:03
luke-jr	trumee: Sofia isn't new	01:03
orangey	whereas everybody else is via PSTN	01:03
trumee	orangey: pcmu consumes much less cpu, but still have the same choppyness.	01:03
PhonicUK	has anyone tried Milkytracker on their N900?	01:03
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trumee	luke-jr: not sure where the problem is a)Sofia or b)gstreamer/pulse-audio	01:04
orangey	i actually wondered if it was some network issue and made my ISP add g729 to my account	01:04
orangey	trumee: have you tried the new pulseaudio?	01:04
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trumee	orangey: no i havent. have you seen the choppiness thread on tmo.	01:05
orangey	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60788	01:05
orangey	trumee: which one? I've read through so many choppiness threads	01:05
orangey	my problem isn't choppiness. it's complete silence for 10-100 seconds at a time	01:05
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trumee	orangey: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54039	01:06
trumee	orangey: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=811368&postcount=25	01:06
trumee	orangey: i asked the guy above to test against my freeswitch server and his N900 was choppy.	01:07
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trumee	he is doing calls over his internal network only, no wonder he is not facing major issues.	01:07
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luke-jr	no issues here	01:08
trumee	luke-jr: iirc you tested with my freeswitch and it was choppy :)	01:08
luke-jr	IIRC it wasn't.	01:08
luke-jr	didn't timeless and I hold a 30+ minute long convo over it?	01:09
trumee	luke-jr: timeless said there was choppines?	01:09
luke-jr	yeah, maybe once every 5-10 minutes	01:09
trumee	luke-jr: the server is my primary telephone line and trust me i use it daily :)	01:10
luke-jr	in any case, my own PBX works fine	01:10
trumee	luke-jr: if you are happy to create an extension then i can hook up the audio-book to your system. you can play with it as long as you can.	01:10
luke-jr	…	01:11
orangey	trumee	01:11
orangey	try this thing	01:11
orangey	hook up a bluetooth and make the same call	01:11
trumee	orangey: you think that will help?	01:11
orangey	trumee: It does for me	01:11
orangey	trumee: in fact, it eliminates the problem completely	01:12
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orangey	which now that I think of it points more to PA instead of a codec issue	01:12
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trumee	orangey: ok. i am going to try that out. got to go now.	01:14
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trumee	luke-jr: think about giving me an extension.	01:14
trumee	gn all	01:14
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, porting twinkle sounds tempting, but alas twinkle isn't qt4-ready	01:17
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PhonicUK	hmm, package manager keeps saying theres no free space	01:18
PhonicUK	but apt-get has no problem	01:18
DocScrutinizer	otherwise it's be a walk in the park	01:18
PhonicUK	and everything has pleanty of free space	01:18
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DocScrutinizer	check HAM logs	01:19
PhonicUK	where are they?	01:19
DocScrutinizer	menu - log ?	01:19
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PhonicUK	got it	01:20
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PhonicUK	DocScrutinizer, looks like HAM is being stupid	01:24
PhonicUK	it says:	01:24
DocScrutinizer	that all but new	01:24
PhonicUK	apt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home	01:24
PhonicUK	but earlier it says:	01:24
PhonicUK	apt-worker: free space (/home/) = 2113748992	01:24
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PhonicUK	required disk space: 266394	01:25
DocScrutinizer	weird	01:25
* satmd makes 485 pieces out of his birthday cake and shares his happy day :)		01:25
DocScrutinizer	cheers satmd	01:25
PhonicUK	and i can use apt-get and its fine :\	01:25
PhonicUK	how weird	01:25
DocScrutinizer	strace?	01:26
PhonicUK	no stack trace is shown to me?	01:26
CreamyG	goddamn, i fail at pointers. segfault :\|	01:27
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orangey	ok, so I'm trying to test out the assumption that it's actually a performance issue	01:37
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orangey	but when I install Titan's kernel (kernel-power-settings), I can no longer see my WLAN, though others show	01:37
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orangey	any thoughts?	01:38
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orangey	(I CAN see other WLANs)	01:38
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teilzeitstudent	Is there a way to stop the app manager from looking for updates everytime i connect to some network?	02:05
lcuk	teilzeitstudent, you can set the time between checks	02:06
lcuk	you will have to search, its a common question and there are answers	02:06
teilzeitstudent	'kay.. ty.	02:07
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DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#	02:09
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check	02:09
DocScrutinizer	HTH	02:10
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lcuk	:) ta DocScrutinizer	02:10
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teilzeitstudent	DocScrutinizer, thanks found some SDK doc with the same info. I guess 2,147,483,647 minutes is as good as never.	02:12
lcuk	:D	02:12
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kerio	i just set it to a year	02:13
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SpeedEvil	I set it to once every decade.	02:14
SpeedEvil	Don't want it to get too out of date.	02:14
teilzeitstudent	:p	02:14
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teilzeitstudent	hmm. what will smartphones look like in 10 years	02:15
* lcuk has a few ideas		02:15
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teilzeitstudent	well, I do too but none of them are too nice. shouldnt have read 1984 the other day :<	02:17
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kerio	1984 is awesome	02:18
SpeedEvil	was	02:18
kerio	no, the book	02:19
kerio	the book is still awesome	02:19
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teilzeitstudent	well soon google will have cameras outside of our house and inside, implanted in those internet-tv boxes.	02:21
kerio	pff	02:22
kerio	google will scan our brain	02:22
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teilzeitstudent	and saying "google sucks" in your living room will automatically increase the pageranking of your embarassing party pictures from when you where young.	02:24
pupnik	anybody here on osx? this might be a fun game for maemo	02:25
kerio	me	02:25
kerio	but not atm	02:25
ieatlint	teilzeitstudent: i dunno, i'd have to say i'd expect that sooner of apple	02:26
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ieatlint	everyone will have just one phone, and they all look the same	02:26
ieatlint	your only allowed to use it as they deem acceptable, etc	02:26
pupnik	http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/sketchfighter/ kerio	02:27
teilzeitstudent	Well, google is Oceania, apple is Eurasia and microsoft is Eastasia. So.. what does it really matter :P	02:27
kerio	pupnik: bookmarked, will try it	02:27
kerio	teilzeitstudent: omg they're the same!	02:28
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teilzeitstudent	ieatlint, noo. there will always be room for individualisation. have that one ringtone noone else has and be free!	02:28
kerio	or did you mean that we don't know if 2 out of 3 actually exist?	02:28
ieatlint	except that ringtone wasn't free	02:29
ieatlint	it cost you money	02:29
teilzeitstudent	of course it will. what do you expect	02:29
kerio	freedom is never free	02:30
ieatlint	i expect freedom not to be a commercial choice	02:30
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SpeedEvil1	fcamera	02:35
SpeedEvil1	It's dying on startup	02:35
SpeedEvil1	any clues?	02:35
satmd	start it from xterm and watch the messages	02:35
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satmd	most likely it's missing something	02:36
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SpeedEvil	yeah - last lines were about LED	02:36
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pigeon	which app on the n900 can do phone call recording again?	02:40
luke-jr	Recorder?	02:41
pigeon	thanks, so obvious, yet so hard to remember... :)	02:44
n900-space	its in the form of a desktop widget, that lil red curved square ( i wish it was bigger ) .. its a cute widget though	02:44
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pigeon	ah, "recaller"?	02:48
pigeon	it said it has recorded, but can't find the recorded file.	02:48
luke-jr	mine is called Recorder	02:48
luke-jr	I think it was preinstalled	02:48
pigeon	weird, i don't have that widget.	02:48
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luke-jr	PR1.2?	02:49
luke-jr	and it's not a widget	02:49
luke-jr	it's an app	02:49
luke-jr	like you asked for	02:49
pigeon	wait, there is it, the recorded file	02:49
pigeon	yeah, 1.2, but it's called "recaller" in the widget list.	02:49
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luke-jr	it's not a widget	02:49
pigeon	my "recorder" is an app.	02:50
pigeon	yeah	02:50
pigeon	and what n900-space said is a widget, which is "recaller".	02:50
pigeon	recaller seems to have recoreded better quality ones.	02:50
luke-jr	O.o	02:50
pigeon	anyway, thanks both.	02:50
n900-space	oh sorry i forget the names usually :)	02:53
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: fcam is brainfsckd as it seems to access LP5523 directly instead of going for mce pattern	02:53
SpeedEvil	hmm	02:53
SpeedEvil	strace	02:54
DocScrutinizer51	e.g. fcam is known to mess up LP5523 so pretty thoroughly you not only see mce segfault but also need to remove battery to reset the led controller LP5523	02:55
SpeedEvil	yeah - 'led blinker device' -> seg	02:55
DocScrutinizer51	noobs	02:56
SpeedEvil	though the last call is actually to /dev/fb1	02:57
DocScrutinizer51	wtf is so damn hard to sed a new pattern into mce.ini and call that via mce dbus call like every proper app does?	02:57
ieatlint	lol, local commuter train has massive delays because someone decided to drive their car down the train tracks	02:58
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pigeon	ieatlint: that's not such a bad idea actually... assuming the law allows that :)	03:03
pigeon	seeing the trains are always delayed anyway...	03:04
ieatlint	it does not, and the car did not get far before getting stuck	03:04
genewitch	mmm half pound of grass fed beef and 2 free range chicken eggs for dinner	03:04
genewitch	god DAMN	03:04
pigeon	ieatlint: hahahahahaha	03:04
genewitch	cooked in butter and coconut oil	03:04
genewitch	nom. nom. NOM.	03:04
ieatlint	i'd probably not be laughing if i had to take the train :)	03:05
ieatlint	thankfully, i don't	03:05
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pigeon	i do, but i assume it's not the same country.	03:06
ieatlint	probably not	03:06
ieatlint	http://sfist.com/2010/09/09/whats_going_on_here_train_wannabe.php has a picture of the genius stuck on the tracks	03:07
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quanttrom	hello guys,.. I got the phone and I have to say my battery life is horrible. What do you to improve your battery life?	03:35
quanttrom	I turned the screen brightness down, don't use a magnetic pouch, etc...all the standard stuff	03:35
quanttrom	put on the autoconnection manager as well	03:35
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SpeedEvil	What do you use the phone for?	03:35
SpeedEvil	3g active internet connections are bad.	03:36
quanttrom	well I have wifi at home and univ. so it is quite common it will be online (SKype/Gtalk)	03:36
quanttrom	also	03:36
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption Though I need to polish	03:36
SpeedEvil	If you have powersaving enabled and working it does not use significant power	03:36
quanttrom	I must use 3G because WIND does not have 2G	03:36
SpeedEvil	wlan that is	03:37
quanttrom	I am pretty sure it's Power savings is enabled on Wlan	03:37
quanttrom	yes it is	03:37
SpeedEvil	Some wlan routers do not peoperly supppport it, and cause it to use more power.	03:37
asj	quanttrom: define horrible	03:37
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quanttrom	kk removed from charger at 9:45 AM	03:40
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quanttrom	using 3G but no data, some calls totalling maybe 10 mins	03:40
quanttrom	wifi on for 4-5 hours	03:41
quanttrom	20-30 mins of internet radio	03:41
quanttrom	and overall the phone has been on for ~10 hours	03:41
quanttrom	battery is dead	03:41
asj	how many im/skype/sip accounts?	03:42
quanttrom	skype + gtalk	03:42
quanttrom	so 2	03:42
asj	sounds about right	03:42
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quanttrom	haha maybe my expectations were a little too high :)	03:42
asj	shutdown skype, it eats about 25-75% bat/day	03:43
asj	depends on how well skype network is doing that day	03:43
quanttrom	hm interesting	03:43
quanttrom	gtalk uses less, on average?	03:44
asj	streaming audio is always hoggy too	03:44
asj	gtalk I found uses 15-20%/day (I can't remember if I was counting a day as 24 hours or 18, but anyways)	03:44
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asj	that was idle and on wifi were powersavings worked	03:45
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quanttrom	oh, also I have it set to search for Wi-Fi connection every 30 mins. is that a power hog based on ur experience?	03:51
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asj	quanttrom: to give you an idea, no calls, maybe 1.5 hours of mp3 playing and IM and an idle phone, with good 3g coverage I have over 50% at night. Start using the phone, say an hour of web browsing, talking on im several times through the day. Basically using it as a computer replacement I get about 10 hours.	03:52
asj	quanttrom: no, I have mine at 5 or 10 mins	03:53
quanttrom	alright thanks asj	03:53
quanttrom	I think I'll go purchase a car charger now	03:53
jpinx-eeepc	asj: I do the same and get a day out of the battery which is about 7 months old	03:56
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jpinx-eeepc	asj: and I leave about 6 applications running all the time to save time when i want to do some quick work in a bus or whatever	03:57
asj	jpinx-eeepc: yeah, same here	03:57
jpinx-eeepc	and wifi searches at 5 mins	03:57
* jpinx-eeepc can't afford data over the mobile network		03:58
* jpinx-eeepc needs a better wep cracker ;)		03:58
asj	quanttrom: I would start with killing skype for a day and see how you go anyways. Oh, and set it to 3g only so it doesn't search edge contantly. There's a nice 3g switcher app	03:58
quanttrom	asj: I'll kill skype and gtalk and see how that goes. also, my phone is set to 3G only from the settings. That's my only option	03:59
jpinx-eeepc	ah - skype is probably your bogey quanttrom - it is a real resource-hog	03:59
jpinx-eeepc	even when it is sitting in the background it is churning away and munching bandwidth ;)	03:59
asj	oh, and I have widgets running like crazy, omweather,fb,comic, etc	03:59
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jpinx-eeepc	asj: I have debian running in a chroot for irssi and bitlbee ;)	04:01
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SpeedEvil	skype wil do it	04:02
jpinx-eeepc	and when I get to my "desk" I plug it into the usb on this eeepc and ssh/sshfs itno it for the bigger screen and kbd, but all the "stuff" is in the n900	04:02
SpeedEvil	pretty much alone - as I understand it	04:02
jpinx-eeepc	so my n900 reallyis my computer now :)	04:02
pigeon	anyone here uses scim on their n900?	04:04
pigeon	or i actually meant mscim.	04:04
asj	during battery trials on pr1.2 with skype (which is much better than 1.0/1.1) it was doing well, about 25% down by 6pm, then skype had some network issue and you could see cpu time jump, network activity jump and the batt was dead by 10pm	04:11
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SpeedEvil	skype is p2p	04:24
SpeedEvil	If you are routing others traffic in any way - it uses stupid power	04:24
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Sc0rpius	stupid question, but can you make VoIP through gtalk ?	04:28
Sc0rpius	'cos I've never even thought about that until I just read you guys talking about it	04:28
MohammadAG51	i think you can do video calls too	04:29
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Sc0rpius	geez... that's what I get for lazyness to try things	04:29
ieatlint	Sc0rpius: gtalk 2 gtalk voip only at the moment though	04:29
Sc0rpius	I didn't even know gtalk had video calls, I know Skype does, 'cos I use it heavily on my desktop	04:29
ieatlint	no calling phone numbers	04:29
Sc0rpius	alas, I didn't know gtalk could call phone numbers either (even on a desktop)	04:30
Sc0rpius	wow Skype brainwashed me	04:30
ieatlint	it can't exactly -- it can in the US from gmail only, not even the official gtalk apps support phone calls yet	04:30
Sc0rpius	oh ok	04:31
Sc0rpius	I think I read about it in digg	04:31
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ieatlint	yeah, google voice support in gmail.. bizarrely implemented	04:31
ieatlint	i can make phone calls from gmail, but not google voice? weird shit	04:32
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genewitch	what is the difference between google voice and making phone calls	04:33
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genewitch	you can forward txt to your gmail and use the gvoice in there to reply	04:34
ieatlint	in gmail, with google voice, i can make and receive phone calls without having a phone	04:34
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genewitch	google voice isn't a sip service though	04:34
genewitch	how can you receive phone calls	04:34
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ieatlint	http://www.google.com/chat/voice/	04:35
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ieatlint	http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/call-phones-from-gmail.html for the official announcement and full details	04:36
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RST38h	Hmm, ARM jumps from CortexA9 straight to CortexA15	04:48
microlith	it's 6x better, of course	04:57
quanttrom	another question. I installed the Open SSH client + server and the "SSH Status and Switcher" that adds a button so u can turn the SSH server on and off	04:57
quanttrom	I tried removing the S55ssh scripts from rc?.d but sshd is still started every time the phone boots up	04:57
quanttrom	what am I doing wrong?	04:58
johnx	could it be the because it's wired into upstart?	05:01
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quanttrom	thanks johnx , I'm used to the old sysv, just read up on upstart	05:13
johnx	yeah me too	05:14
johnx	it's even weirder since we're in this transition period where both appear to work	05:14
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quanttrom	somebody asked the same question in the forums	05:33
quanttrom	I'll give 'em my..hack..	05:33
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iluminator101	hi i cant login my google voice from n900 why?	05:35
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slonopotamus	luke-jr: huh, ipv6 is already deployed in some places?	08:16
slonopotamus	i mean, on isp level	08:16
ieatlint	yes	08:18
slonopotamus	cool. sadly, not here	08:18
ieatlint	my isp allegedly will give me /60 address range, and tmobile in the US has just started ipv6 trials	08:19
orlok	/60?	08:20
ieatlint	anyone with a phone that supports ipv6 is welcome to join it -- i'm running it on the n900 now, and it's oh so pointless	08:20
orlok	i played around with an ipv6 tunnel to my home server, but thats about it	08:20
orlok	Hmm, wesnoth doesnt want to start on my n900	08:21
ieatlint	err, not a /60 block	08:21
ieatlint	a 60 address range, bleh	08:21
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johnx	hmmm, dunno how I feel about Nokia's new president/CEO being from the Microsoft business department ...	09:12
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orlok	heh	09:13
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orlok	as long as its not ballmer heh	09:14
secyritas	:D	09:15
johnx	ballmer? didn't they fire him yet?	09:16
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orlok	there is no way to get access to the gsm audio under N900 is there?	09:19
genewitch	For dinner, free range chicken breast with french goat Feta pan fried with fettucini.	09:19
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genewitch	total cost something like $13 a plate	09:19
genewitch	wait, $9 a plate	09:20
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rmrfchik	aloha	09:24
johnx	mornin' rmrfchik	09:24
rmrfchik	johnx: nokia hired new CEO?	09:24
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genewitch	earlier today i had free range grass fed beef sirlon with free range chicken brown eggs	09:24
genewitch	that was hella good too	09:25
inz	rmrfchik, they did	09:25
genewitch	ooh wrong channel	09:25
johnx	http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703597204575482902836750116.html	09:25
rmrfchik	wtf "free range". can't translate	09:25
johnx	genewitch, it's all fair if your brought enough for everyone :>	09:25
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johnx	rmrfchik, uhm, it refers to an animal that was raised outside, rather than kept in a tiny cage	09:26
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orlok	hmm.	09:28
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orlok	parmaster: not parmaster of underground, etc fame?	09:28
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Gh0sty	soon N900 running windows mobile? http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/nokias-opk-is-out-replaced-by-stephen-elop-as-president-and-ce/	09:32
Gh0sty	;)	09:32
johnx	hey, at least it's not ballmer, right?	09:32
Gh0sty	:)	09:32
rmrfchik	soon N900 running .net	09:34
orlok	Does anybody know if its possible to access the GSM audio via a linux device?	09:34
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johnx	isn't there already mono for N900?	09:35
johnx	orlok, sorry. not ignoring you, but I have no idea...	09:35
orlok	thats cool :)	09:35
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johnx	orlok, is the goal to record calls or something like that ... ?	09:39
johnx	anyways, there seems to be a call recorder: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/recaller/	09:39
johnx	so that might have some good code to look at	09:39
orlok	johnx: no, but i was just looking at that	09:39
orlok	yeah	09:39
orlok	and its python, bonus	09:40
orlok	i'll see how that does it	09:40
orlok	work makes an embedded linux modem that does data over gsm	09:40
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johnx	over a gsm voice call? O_o;	09:41
orlok	yeah	09:41
orlok	i know	09:41
orlok	dont ask :)	09:41
johnx	just please tell me the encoding is base64 over morse :D	09:42
orlok	ahh cool that app actually added a desktop widget to press	09:42
orlok	haha, we joke about that stuff	09:42
orlok	uuencode the data and write ot on a sheet of paper and fax it! yeah!	09:42
johnx	never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of backup tapes :D	09:43
orlok	yup :)	09:43
orlok	though here in australia, we have panelvans	09:44
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orlok	gotta be at least an extra 50% capacity	09:44
orlok	also lower latency, easier to load/unload	09:44
johnx	well yeah. but I think idea is supposed to be that the station wagon is what the sys admin actually drives to work ;)	09:44
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orlok	johnx: panelvans are also great for fitting a pair of 19" racks side by side	09:47
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johnx	hey, I can fit a 19" rack in my wagon, just a slightly shorter one ... http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack	09:49
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orlok	johnx: http://gallery.oldholden.com/terence_overlander/1978+Holden+Overlander+Panelvan+327+chev/	09:50
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orlok	hmm cool recaller seems to work	09:53
orlok	not sure if its directlly accessing the gsm data or just using a microphone or something	09:53
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johnx	if i had to guess, I'd guess it's doing something with pulseaudio	09:54
rmrfchik	johnx: thanks for translation	09:54
johnx	also: I now understand what you mean by panelvan ... :)	09:55
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orlok	like mad max's weekend car, before he got mad heh	09:56
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johnx	rmrfchik, no problem. "free range" is kind of a weird concept. Is there actually Russian phrase that means the same thing?	09:56
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pigeon	is there a ~/.xsessionrc equivalent on the n900?	10:10
rmrfchik	johnx: hmmm. does free range mean "wild" or it does mean "not wild, but grown in, well, free range"?	10:10
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mece	"It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. "	10:15
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crashanddie	"Disabled toilets. Ironically, the only toilets big enough to run around in."	10:18
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:25
merlin1991	tmo is down :/	10:26
mece	o/ Jaffa	10:26
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mece	fmc also.	10:26
mece	:)	10:26
mece	oo its up	10:27
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merlin1991	s/.*/all I have todo is down :/	10:27
merlin1991	.* not a valid regext?	10:28
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gomiam	weird	10:28
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gomiam	you have enclosed that in single quotes, right?	10:28
gomiam	(I'm assuming you are trying to sed -e that)	10:29
merlin1991	i tryed to use infobot, no idea how it's implemented	10:29
merlin1991	s/i/I/	10:29
infobot	merlin1991 meant: I tryed to use infobot, no idea how it's implemented	10:29
merlin1991	just like that	10:29
gomiam	ok, let're test	10:29
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gomiam	s/'re/'s/	10:29
infobot	gomiam meant: ok, let's test	10:29
gomiam	retsnting....	10:30
mece	.*	10:30
mece	s/.*/asdf/	10:30
infobot	mece meant: asdf	10:30
gomiam	s/t.*t/test/	10:30
mece	it's literal	10:30
gomiam	s/t.\*t/test/	10:30
gomiam	abc	10:30
gomiam	s/\.\*/bca/	10:30
gomiam	mmm... looks like it	10:31
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merlin1991	smaaal test	10:31
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merlin1991	s/[a]+/a/	10:31
merlin1991	yeah literal	10:31
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merlin1991	booooring ;)	10:31
mece	hehe	10:31
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merlin1991	anyone here who would would tell me not to buy a d-link switch? (I'm about to get one)	10:37
nid0	personally i wouldnt buy one of their consumer-oriented switches	10:38
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nid0	but most preferences between the big three for home gear is more down to personal taste/experience than any real differences in the products	10:38
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merlin1991	the big three beeing?	10:39
nid0	netgear, linksys, and d-link	10:39
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merlin1991	I dunno why d-link only sells the gay looking versions here	10:41
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merlin1991	I mean http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21hgcjjPU3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg vs http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hjB0%2BRNNL.jpg	10:42
koala_man	which one's the gay one?	10:44
merlin1991	the white one :)	10:44
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merlin1991	even better looking one (also not avaiable here) http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jrEXhgxOL.jpg	10:45
ieatlint	gays like black too, let us know when you find a pink or light blue one	10:46
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koala_man	of those, the sleek black one is the one I would call the most gay. the white one is futuristic and the one that looks like a 80s modem looks like.. an 80s modem	10:47
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rmrfchik	not gay router http://www.electronicsinfoline.com/New/img/news/200909/13361_0.jpg	10:48
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merlin1991	rmrfchik, I'm looking only for a switch though	10:48
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rmrfchik	it will looks the same	10:49
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rmrfchik	guts open, wires, diods	10:49
merlin1991	and I'm not that awesome @ doing this kind of stuff myself ;)	10:49
ieatlint	i personally have liked the netgear rackmount line, but i guess it doesn't look that nice on a plain desk	10:50
kerio	buy a rack	10:50
ieatlint	you can buy racks cheap on craigslist :P	10:51
merlin1991	have a rack too, but the switch is meant for the living room :)	10:51
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kerio	merlin1991: no, pretty sure a cute-looking AP is meant for the living room	10:51
kerio	ieatlint: i'd buy a rack but i'm not sure i can rackmount a sheevaplug	10:51
merlin1991	ap? you crazy, gaming over wireless?	10:51
ieatlint	sure you can, it just makes no sense	10:52
* kerio plays FPSes over wifi with a bluetooth mouse :<		10:52
ieatlint	and yeah dude, wifi adds 3ms to your ping, that's totally going to fuck you up	10:52
koala_man	kerio: how are bluetooth mice for gaming?	10:52
kerio	koala_man: meh, i don't really notice a difference	10:53
kerio	except when the batteries start to run out	10:53
kerio	in that case, i die	10:53
kerio	:(	10:53
koala_man	are wireless bluetooth mice more power hungry than those proprietary wireless connections?	10:53
kerio	never used one of those	10:53
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kerio	and the proprietary wireless mouses need a usb adapter	10:53
merlin1991	ieatlint, the problem isn't the 3ms that's ok, the problem is the high amount of wifi and other noise here wich produces regular 10 sec lags .D	10:54
kerio	merlin1991: so it's not a wifi problem	10:54
kerio	it's a your wifi problem	10:54
merlin1991	indeed	10:54
merlin1991	i'll reprase it then	10:54
ieatlint	go invest in 802.11n :P	10:54
kerio	merlin1991: crack every network, enter every other AP, and turn the power down to the minimum	10:54
merlin1991	ap? you crazy, wifi gaming in vienna?	10:54
kerio	merlin1991: i'm in Rome, you think the situation is different?	10:54
merlin1991	nah	10:55
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kerio	well, i am this close to the router anyway	10:55
kerio	it's more that i don't want to switch to ethernet, losing my current connections	10:55
ieatlint	seriously, 802.11n... almost no one is on 5ghz right now	10:55
ieatlint	and the microwave doesn't interfere with it, hehe	10:55
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merlin1991	I used to have a wireless mouse, stopped using it again, because the signal got interrupted so often	10:56
kerio	i'm on 802.11n 2.4GHz only	10:56
kerio	it's still much better than g	10:56
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ieatlint	ah, i meant to be saying 802.11a, but yeah	10:56
kerio	a?	10:56
kerio	:\|	10:56
ieatlint	a is 5ghz only	10:57
kerio	but it sucks	10:57
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ieatlint	in my experience, it's no better or worse on its own, but the 5ghz range is not very crowded, so it ends up being better	10:58
kerio	you just need to find a good channel	10:58
merlin1991	I guess living next to the biggest hospital here kinda adds to my problem :)	10:58
kerio	if you can't find it, crack every neighbor's router and turn their wifi power to the minimum	10:58
ieatlint	that definitely makes a difference, yes	10:58
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merlin1991	so I'm bound to get a cable solution	10:59
kerio	or a bigger wifi AP	11:01
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merlin1991	a freakin huge one in that case	11:01
kerio	yeah!	11:01
kerio	with 2mt antennas	11:01
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merlin1991	ah well I have a fm transmitter in the cellar, why not build an overpowered ap :D	11:03
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merlin1991	or just build a faraday cage around the house :D	11:05
TermanaN900	yello	11:06
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MohammadAG51	hmm, don't some routers allow external antennas?	12:32
MohammadAG51	My old D-Link does	12:32
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X-Fade	MohammadAG51: ping?	12:42
MohammadAG51	X-Fade, pong	12:42
X-Fade	Can we try to get frozen depending on the new perl-modules today? That would make it a lot easier for me to get changes like this done in the future :)	12:43
MohammadAG51	Oh, versioned dependecy? I didn't get what you wanted before :P I'll do it in a bit :)	12:44
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X-Fade	MohammadAG51: I want to prevent blocking SSU from our end ;)	12:45
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DocScrutinizer	moo	12:48
Dassu	cow imitation success	12:49
DocScrutinizer	~moo	12:49
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass		12:49
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Dassu	"twice as much as DocScrutinizer" wow he's fat	12:50
DocScrutinizer	honestly, I'm musing bout this each time :-D	12:51
MiXu-	:D	12:51
DocScrutinizer	a 100kg cow, what a fail	12:52
pupnik	that quote is from a song	12:52
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ieatlint	you weigh 50kg?	12:54
ieatlint	scrawny bastard :P	12:54
DocScrutinizer	that's sufficiently precise and convenient a number, yes	12:55
ieatlint	i'm 67kg or so, and people call me too thin	12:55
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DocScrutinizer	maybe 55, or 58, I don't care	12:56
ieatlint	further proof you're a geek	12:57
SpeedEvil	78.2 here.	12:57
SpeedEvil	actually - 78.3	12:57
SpeedEvil	I'm halfway through a coffee	12:57
DocScrutinizer	lol	12:57
ieatlint	hehe	12:58
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DocScrutinizer	I'm just taking care each of my coffees has enough sugar in it, and generally try to chose the more calories while eating	12:59
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DocScrutinizer	shopping is a pain, nowadays you can't get decent food, all is fat reduced and light	13:00
MiXu-	The fuss about fat is ridiculous	13:00
SpeedEvil	Just cook from scratch.	13:01
MiXu-	Fast carbs are much worse for your health	13:01
SpeedEvil	yeah.	13:01
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ieatlint	happily i can still get food that is anything but lean here	13:01
SpeedEvil	I've recently lost 25kg or so.	13:01
SpeedEvil	The key was not low fat at all.	13:01
SpeedEvil	It was portion control.	13:01
Dassu	yeah	13:02
MiXu-	I try to buy non-light products whenever possible and when cooking I've reduced the use of potatoes, rice, etc.	13:02
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Dassu	I usually tell people not to eat	13:02
SpeedEvil	While losing 1Kg/week - 10% of my daily energy was in the form of chocolate	13:02
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: potatos are good	13:02
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: they are slow	13:02
Dassu	like seriously if you wanna lose weight Dont eat	13:02
MiXu-	Still carbs. And don't really taste like anything.	13:02
SpeedEvil	http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104	13:02
MiXu-	Unless you add fat =)	13:02
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: fair enough.	13:02
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: they however fill you up better than nearly anything else for a long time	13:03
SpeedEvil	http://www.mendosa.com/satrank.htm	13:03
MiXu-	True. If you consume lots of energy then cutting down on carbs is silly.	13:03
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GNUtoo\|laptop	hi	13:40
GNUtoo\|laptop	*is 0xFFFF supposed to work on a n900	13:41
GNUtoo\|laptop	2)how do I install extras-devel?	13:41
DocScrutinizer	for 2) see wiki	13:41
merlin1991	I wonder if this exists	13:41
merlin1991	~extras-devel	13:41
infobot	methinks extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel	13:41
merlin1991	and wth is 0xFFF	13:42
merlin1991	s/F/FF/	13:42
infobot	merlin1991 meant: and wth is 0xFFFF	13:42
DocScrutinizer	Free Firmware Flasher Foo	13:42
merlin1991	bar?	13:43
GNUtoo\|laptop	I saw that	13:43
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GNUtoo\|laptop	for the wiki	13:44
GNUtoo\|laptop	I'm tr-trying but it still fails	13:44
GNUtoo\|laptop	partial refresh of applications	13:44
GNUtoo\|laptop	is there some manual way to do that	13:44
GNUtoo\|laptop	for instance with ssh	13:44
SpeedEvil	try again. Open the app-managerrrr, update	13:44
GNUtoo\|laptop	I keep trying	13:44
GNUtoo\|laptop	and still the same issue	13:45
GNUtoo\|laptop	ahhh	13:45
GNUtoo\|laptop	fremantle	13:45
GNUtoo\|laptop	not freemantle	13:45
SpeedEvil	syre tiy gave;t girt at werd furewakks un teh way?	13:45
GNUtoo\|laptop	lol	13:45
SpeedEvil	yeah - that too. :)	13:45
SpeedEvil	Sure you haven't got any wierd firewalls even	13:46
GNUtoo\|laptop	no	13:46
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kerio	SpeedEvil: the fuck	13:50
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SpeedEvil	?	13:51
kerio	"syre tiy gave;t girt at werd furewakks un teh way?"	13:51
SpeedEvil	Typo.	13:51
SpeedEvil	Not looking at ther kesreen	13:52
kerio	yeah, i see	13:52
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DocScrutinizer	actually what's current state of 0xFFFF ?	13:54
GNUtoo\|laptop	hmmm	13:55
GNUtoo\|laptop	it says that bootmenu-b900 breaks the 3rd party package policy	13:55
GNUtoo\|laptop	and it refuses to install it	13:55
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zap	Anybody knows why on N900 the second layout (Russian) does not work? It tells me that the layout switched, but still enters latin symbols.	13:59
zap	This is a "gray import" N900, with the European keyboard layout painted on buttons	14:00
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zap	(does the OS know what kind of keyboard is attached?)	14:00
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zap	setxkbmap -v says: <<symbols: nokia_vndr/rx-51(common)+nokia_vndr/rx-51(us)+inet(evdev)>>	14:09
zap	What is the config file for setxkbmap? How it knows about "nokia_vndr/rx-51"?	14:10
GNUtoo\|laptop	ok doing with apt-get	14:12
pigeon	does the n900 gl support fbo?	14:15
MohammadAG	/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51	14:15
MohammadAG	zap, ^	14:15
MohammadAG	<zap> (does the OS know what kind of keyboard is attached?) <-- it's a physical mat, it doesn't know about it	14:16
MohammadAG	I think you can set it with osso-product-info	14:16
MohammadAG	OSSO_PRODUCT_KEYBOARD='English, Dutch'	14:16
kerio	zap: russian is weird	14:16
MohammadAG	or through settings > text input	14:16
kerio	it's the ui that has to switch to the other 4 levels	14:17
kerio	for other kbds, ctrl+space just changes the dictionary	14:17
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crashanddie	Khertan_Home: ping	14:52
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zap	Okay, at some point it started working. But I still don't understand what I did :)	14:54
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lcuk	crashanddie, test test test test test :P	14:55
crashanddie	lcuk: TECT TECT TECT TECT	14:55
crashanddie	ест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест 1/2	14:55
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crashanddie	once was OK	14:56
crashanddie	twice was OK	14:56
crashanddie	10 times is starting to get painful	14:56
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decimos	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmhA1993LWY&feature=related	15:02
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DocScrutinizer	I think things like keymat used are stored to cal, but used only for initial config on firstboot etc	15:06
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lcuk	crashanddie, how are you getting on @ work?	15:09
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crashanddie	lcuk: good actually	15:10
lcuk	:D	15:10
crashanddie	lcuk: rewriting the installation scripts, 't was about 100 lines before, now about 2000	15:10
lcuk	as it should be	15:10
lcuk	complexification!	15:10
crashanddie	advancification	15:10
crashanddie	previously you had to create all the directories by hand	15:10
crashanddie	untar a dozen .tar.bz2 files	15:10
crashanddie	etc	15:10
lcuk	featurecreepificying	15:10
crashanddie	now everything is contained in a single .sh file	15:11
crashanddie	the .sh file is generated automatically	15:11
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merlin1991	autoconf?	15:12
crashanddie	no, perl script	15:12
crashanddie	I'm adapting to autoconf now though for the compilation units	15:13
* merlin1991 can't stand perl :P		15:13
crashanddie	perl is insanely powerful	15:13
visz	mmm.. perl	15:13
merlin1991	and the syntax sort of makes me run away	15:13
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visz	i try to obfuscate my perl, so that no one can read it	15:14
visz	if it's hard to write, it should be hard to read	15:14
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merlin1991	that's my main problem with it, it's hard to read others code	15:18
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crashanddie	want to replace a single line (say the line that contains ###MYKEYWORD###) in file1 be replaced by the contents of file2? perl -pi -e'if(/###MYKEYWORD###/) { my $fn = "file2"; open my $fh, $fn or die "$fn:$!"; local $/; $_=<$fh>;}' file1	15:18
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CutMeOwnThroat	I didn't know people deliberately wanted to obfuscate their perl code... I thought it usually happens naturally	15:18
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Khertan_	Hi all !	15:18
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lcuk	merlin1991, you are not meant to read perl	15:20
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lcuk	the developer guide recommends facepalming onto the keyboard to implement some advanced features	15:20
crashanddie	lcuk: you want to hear something fun	15:21
Stskeeps	no, barbwire ;)	15:21
merlin1991	I had to adjust/fix/enhance several perl scripts already, and it always was a pain	15:21
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crashanddie	lcuk: the main dev uses -O6 as the optimisation on his code	15:21
crashanddie	lcuk: and then he also uses -g	15:21
crashanddie	xD	15:21
crashanddie	"Yeah, I'll make the compiler optimise the code massively, and then shoot it all down the drain by including debug symbols"	15:22
lcuk	heh, but do debug symbols slow the code down..	15:25
crashanddie	well, it does at startup	15:25
lcuk	I thought they were just a map and consumed space only?	15:25
* Stskeeps ponders idly what to do this afternoon		15:25
crashanddie	startup without -O6 and -g: 2.1 seconds. With -O6 and -g: 29.3s	15:26
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crashanddie	afterwards, once it's loaded, it's fine	15:26
crashanddie	no performance hit	15:26
lcuk	wth? how big is the binary you are loading?	15:26
lcuk	and what platform	15:27
* lcuk shudders even at 2.1seconds app startup		15:27
tigert	that is like insane difference	15:27
crashanddie	Linux, on a dual-CPU core-i7 server	15:27
X-Fade	Well the webkit dbg package used to be 1GB or so :)	15:27
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* DocScrutinizer cackles and points to STRIP(1)		15:28
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: strip doesn't change a thing	15:28
DocScrutinizer	ooh, so somebody really did a lot of useless coding and manpage writing	15:28
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: I thought it would too, it just doesn't matter in this scenario	15:29
crashanddie	lcuk: without the debug symbols and insane optimisation, about 7.7 MB total (all the binaries). With O6 and debug, about 180 megs	15:29
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DocScrutinizer	with O6 and debug and strip ?	15:34
GAN900	Engadget: "a question that's very near and dear to Fins ..." . . .	15:34
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: which leads me to believe the performance impact is coming from O6, not -g	15:35
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crashanddie	maybe the disk is dying?	15:35
X-Fade	crashanddie: What does -O2 do?	15:35
DocScrutinizer	now that makes sense :-P O6 optimizing performance out of binaries XP	15:36
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: I'm just talking about load times here, not actual runtime performance	15:36
crashanddie	X-Fade: haven't tried it yet	15:36
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X-Fade	crashanddie: And have all dependencies been compiled with that mad combo too? :)	15:37
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: an age old common knowledge is you can so	15:37
DocScrutinizer	speed up code by	15:37
crashanddie	there are no dependecies	15:37
crashanddie	well, unless you count the glibc as being a dependency :P	15:37
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DocScrutinizer	simply increasing it's size, like e.g. avoid loops and issue multiple similar commands instead	15:38
X-Fade	unrolling loops..	15:38
X-Fade	crashanddie: Add another layer of optimization: Copy it to a compressed filesystem :)	15:39
RST38h	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/nokia_ceo_analysis/	15:39
crashanddie	if (string.length == 3) printf("%c%c%c", string[0], string[1], string[2]); else if (string.length == 4) printf("%c%c%c%c", string[0], string[1], string[2], string[3])	15:39
* RST38h starts laughing uncontrollably		15:39
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: unrolled enough for you?	15:39
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: a good start, yes. Check if maybe -O6 can do this in a automatic way :-P	15:42
RST38h	Gentlemen, what the hell are you unrolling here?	15:42
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: generally I'd think omitting -g and using strip should yield same result	15:42
RST38h	unrolling a loop with printf inside is fruitless, forget it	15:42
* lcuk shakes head		15:43
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: can't you test -g and -O6 independently?	15:43
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: well, at about 15-20 of compilation each time, I'd rather not xD	15:43
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DocScrutinizer	err what? days?	15:44
crashanddie	weeks	15:44
DocScrutinizer	freggles	15:44
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: Idc anymore anyway, just thought it was funny. I hate people who use -g in production, just learn to have good logs.	15:44
* marmoute shivers		15:44
DocScrutinizer	lol	15:44
crashanddie	I guess that's my java side that comes up	15:45
DocScrutinizer	though for production, yeah	15:45
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: you want to know the only reason he has -g?	15:45
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: it's so that it would generate a core dump	15:45
DocScrutinizer	sounds sensible	15:45
DocScrutinizer	:-P	15:45
crashanddie	no, it doesn't	15:45
crashanddie	you don't send things to production when you expect it's going to core dump	15:46
DocScrutinizer	XP	15:46
crashanddie	"So why exactly is there dynamite next to the fuel tank?" "So that we can definitely hear when a car explodes"	15:46
DocScrutinizer	rotfl	15:47
crashanddie	"And look, bonus points, it even leaves a crater in the middle of the road, so we know where to start looking for body parts"	15:47
DocScrutinizer	add a remote control, to abort runaway	15:47
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DocScrutinizer	this would be the analogon to kill -sigsegv	15:48
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DocScrutinizer	great too for productive machines	15:49
DocScrutinizer	tool	15:49
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luke-jr	which is better? +d or -d?	15:52
E0x	+A	15:52
luke-jr	…	15:52
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luke-jr	+d means errors are returned, -d means they are raised :p	15:53
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E0x	+d so you can handle the exception	15:53
E0x	with -d i think will just crash	15:53
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luke-jr	+d means you must check for an error	15:54
E0x	( noted: i don't have a clue about what are you talking ...)	15:54
luke-jr	-d means you can catch it with a try… block	15:54
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luke-jr	try { print("success or +d: ", func()); } except e { print("-d: ", e); }	15:55
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GAN900	Here's how I figure it.	16:02
GAN900	The new guy is going to sell Nokia to Adobe since Apple wont let them play on iOS and that'll give them their own smartphone platform to play it.	16:03
X-Fade	GAN900: Nah, the adobe tool is now allowed for ios apps.	16:04
GAN900	Well, damn, there goes that theory.	16:04
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GAN900	How about he's finally Microsoft's in for getting WinMob on Nokia devices?	16:05
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DocScrutinizer51	wut?	16:05
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, new CEO	16:09
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DocScrutinizer51	ooh	16:09
RST38h	GAN: 100% support the hypothesis of selling Nokia to Adobe	16:10
gpd	BBC iPlayer recently stopped worked on my N800 after they moved to the new version. Anyone know if there is a work around? Opera works but no flash. :(	16:10
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RST38h	GAN: But look at the bright side: we will get the latest Flash!	16:10
RST38h	Hell, the whole OS will be rewritten in Flash!!!	16:10
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GAN900	RST38h, I'm excited.	16:10
jacekowski	is that new flash released?	16:11
jacekowski	because i saw somebody on #beagle that he had internal release of 10.1	16:11
DocScrutinizer51	duh, no I realize it's Friday.	16:11
DocScrutinizer51	now*	16:11
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GAN900	Nokia: "Oh, you guys WANTED periodic new updates? Shit, our bad, we'd kinda figured you would just want to buy a new device every year."	16:12
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djszapi	How can I be a root in the scratchbox ?	16:15
djszapi	sudo package is not installed yet	16:15
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Khertan_	fdisk isn't available on n900 ?	16:17
djszapi	why not ?	16:18
luke-jr	RST38h: that would be the death of Maemo/MeeGo overall	16:18
luke-jr	Adobe can't code for crap	16:18
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RST38h	luke: who cares?	16:18
gpd	no ideas on iPlayer on N800?	16:18
RST38h	It is a business decision!	16:18
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lcuk	gpd, hmm unsure	16:19
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lcuk	talk.maemo.org may be a better palce to ask, you need to find intersection of folks who have n8x0 and use iplayer	16:19
SpeedEvil	gpd: Are you aware of get_iplayer?	16:19
DocScrutinizer51	Khertan_: sfdisk?	16:19
* gpd looks		16:19
Khertan_	DocScrutinizer51: not found in repository	16:20
Khertan_	I ve just try cfdisk	16:20
Khertan_	write the partition ...	16:20
Khertan_	but i got a strange error now	16:20
DocScrutinizer51	I prefer cfdisk any day	16:20
SpeedEvil	gpd: It's not a direct answer, but it lets you download programs, and then use mplayer. Won't work for spontaneous.	16:20
Khertan_	/dev/mmc* < didn't exist anymore	16:20
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DocScrutinizer51	umm	16:21
gpd	SpeedEvil: thanks, i'll look into installing on my mythtv box and then connecting using the n800.	16:21
SpeedEvil	Also - much lower CPU usage, and better battery than flash IME.	16:21
Khertan_	hum ... it s back	16:22
Khertan_	starnge	16:22
Khertan_	but ... i ve too partition on /dev/mmcblk1 but ... there is only /dev/mmcblk1p1 in /dev	16:23
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DocScrutinizer51	Khertan_: you're aware it generally takes a reboot to make kernel aware of partion table edits?	16:24
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Khertan_	DocScrutinizer51: didn't know :) reboot now :)	16:25
Stskeeps	or sfdisk -R /dev/device.	16:25
Khertan_	for information i'm trying to put swap on sd :)	16:25
Khertan_	Stskeeps: sfdisk isn't available on n900 (at least not in maemo repository)	16:26
Stskeeps	it's in busybo	16:26
Stskeeps	x	16:26
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Khertan_	arf	16:26
Khertan_	i ve tryed to apt search it before	16:27
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Stskeeps	ever tried to execute it? ;)	16:27
Stskeeps	/sbin/sfdisk	16:27
jacekowski	i have new battery for N900	16:27
Khertan_	nope ... for me busybox just contain ls, cp, mv, cd, and old version of tar	16:28
jacekowski	it should last couple days	16:28
jacekowski	http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=990	16:28
Stskeeps	Khertan_: /sbin/sfdisk	16:28
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hrw	Jaffa: any plans on moving Hermes to using OAuth for twitter?	16:32
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djszapi	http://pastie.org/1150084	16:35
djszapi	any idea ?	16:35
djszapi	I cannot install this simple package ...	16:35
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jacekowski	apt-get install dialog	16:36
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djszapi	http://pastie.org/1150111	16:38
djszapi	jacekowski ^^^	16:38
Khertan_	Stskeeps: thanks ... sfdisk works better :)	16:39
djszapi	any other idea ?	16:39
jacekowski	djszapi: read what error says	16:40
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X-Fade	djszapi: fakeroot apt-get install dialog	16:41
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CutMeOwnThroat	see, told you	16:41
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djszapi	X-Fade: it does not work either	16:42
jacekowski	his /dev/ is not mounted correctly	16:42
jacekowski	for some reason	16:42
djszapi	CutMeOwnThroat: welcome to my ignore list	16:42
djszapi	dev is mounted ...	16:42
CutMeOwnThroat	you're welcome	16:42
djszapi	I have already checked in the output of mount command	16:43
djszapi	but that is not a problem in fact.	16:43
jacekowski	how do you log into scratchbox	16:43
djszapi	I could ingore that problem ...	16:43
Khertan_	question: when i swapon on sdcard ? the original swap is still used ?	16:45
jacekowski	yes	16:45
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jacekowski	you have to swapoff	16:45
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Khertan_	i ask because busybox swapon didn't have option -s :)	16:46
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Khertan_	jacekowski: hum ... i suppose it s /dev/mmcblk0p3 by default on maemo n900 ?	16:46
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jacekowski	i don't remember	16:47
jacekowski	cat /proc/swaps	16:47
Jaffa	hrw: Yup, on a TODO. Though someone could create an issue for it, that'd be great.	16:47
Khertan_	oh thank	16:47
hrw	Jaffa: you mean bug in bugtracker?	16:47
Khertan_	jacekowski: thx for reminds me of /proc/swaps ... for information this was the right partition :)	16:48
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hrw	Jaffa: like bug 11275 for example?	16:55
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11275 Add OAuth support for Twitter	16:55
Khertan_	Ouch it s make a huge difference to move swap on the sd card	16:55
Khertan_	specially when using pylint :)	16:56
hrw	Khertan_: good to know	16:57
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Khertan_	hrw: i feel the differences when there is too much io	16:59
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CutMeOwnThroat	l	17:04
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Khertan_	i think it ll be time to push Khweeteur to extras-testing ... what did you think ?	17:08
bleader	CutMeOwnThroat: Dibbler ? :)	17:08
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CutMeOwnThroat	bleader, sossidsch inna bun? only $5 and thats cutting me own throat...	17:10
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bleader	:)	17:10
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GAN900	Why do applications in a single window DE insist on pulling focus ALL THE TIME: . . .	17:15
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lcuk	GAN900, ? which DE are you meaning	17:17
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GAN900	lcuk, h-d.	17:17
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lcuk	then what do you mean by a single window D-E?	17:18
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lcuk	i thought you were thinking of like easy debian where a whole environment lives inside a single window	17:18
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Jaffa	hrw: Yup; thanks	17:20
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noobmonk3y	hi alls	17:25
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noobmonk3y	anyone using NIT Droid?	17:26
noobmonk3y	just tried it and have a simple question, wheres the power button lol	17:26
noobmonk3y	cant turn the bugger off	17:26
DocScrutinizer51	hah	17:26
noobmonk3y	:P	17:26
jacekowski	once you start it	17:27
jacekowski	you are stuck with it	17:27
jacekowski	there is no going back	17:27
noobmonk3y	hehehe	17:27
noobmonk3y	:P	17:27
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jacekowski	you're not worthy running maemo after running android	17:27
noobmonk3y	lol	17:27
noobmonk3y	have to admit, have never seen the new adroid, so was intruiged	17:28
noobmonk3y	anyway, no answers on how to turn it off?	17:28
jacekowski	pull the battery out	17:28
noobmonk3y	meh	17:29
noobmonk3y	was hoping there was a more... well, deigned method :P	17:29
noobmonk3y	designed*	17:29
* noobmonk3y prods MohammadAG51		17:30
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GAN900	"Oh, Modest is loading the inbox, let's switch you back to it even though you're lookoing at the browser since Modest is slow enough to be useless."	17:31
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	if you are in the main nitdroid desktop, hold the power button down (button at top of device, onormally used by maemo)	17:31
GAN900	lcuk, h-d shows one window at a time.	17:31
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	you should see the power menu. select opower off	17:32
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	if not visible, scroll down to it	17:32
DocScrutinizer51	noobmonk3y: init 6 - nah wait is there any xterm on andridiot?	17:33
noobmonk3y	lol! i swear i did that!	17:33
noobmonk3y	But thank you it works	17:33
noobmonk3y	almost back to the safety of maemO!	17:33
GAN900	So things shouldn't just pull focus whenever they please.	17:33
noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer51: just looking	17:33
GAN900	Especially with as slow as things are.	17:33
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noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer51: not on standard install	17:33
* merlin1991 just opened the amazon package with OpenGL(R) ES 2.0 Programming Guide inside		17:34
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DocScrutinizer51	noobmonk3y: get a motorola to contaminate it with google spyware :-P	17:34
noobmonk3y	lol!!!	17:34
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	tried the 3g enabled version, not bad. certainly some aspects which maemo does better, but it is nice to be able to get access to some mainstream apps for android. best of both worlds. Next... triple boot with meego when its ready!	17:35
[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	install a hosts file as well :)	17:35
noobmonk3y	:) :P	17:35
DocScrutinizer51	why not quad boot with winmoob7 ?	17:36
DangerMaus	hahaha	17:36
lcuk	GAN900, i am extremely interested in specific usecase, for many people browsing and mail are fine but there are some folks with humungous uncontrollable inboxes who are also browing multitple flash laden sites which will bring down a desktop machine let alone a resource constrained device	17:36
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DocScrutinizer51	16:36:59 up 9 days, 2:32 - for the usability of multiboot :-P	17:38
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lcuk	i just flicked backwards and forwards between browser and my modestly filled modest config without issue	17:38
RST38h	lcuk: And these people ought to be exXxterminated!	17:38
RST38h	B)	17:38
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lcuk	;)	17:38
lcuk	nahhh RST38h	17:38
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RST38h	Forget Modest or the browser, none of them will ever be fixed.	17:39
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RST38h	So any discussions of how they SHOULD behave are pointless.	17:39
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marmoute	lcuk: I'm sorry but Modest is a joke.	17:40
* Stskeeps 's with marmoute		17:41
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marmoute	No Thread, No Flag, No attachement WTF ?	17:41
DangerMaus	lol rent 4th paper jamb in the last 30m	17:41
Stskeeps	marmoute: it does have attachment	17:41
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lcuk	marmoute, is there an alternative thats viable?	17:42
lcuk	can we use the meego reference mail client on maemo?	17:42
marmoute	Stskeeps: no it only show image not regular attachement.	17:42
Stskeeps	marmoute: hm, ok	17:42
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marmoute	Stskeeps: I once reply a "haha you forget the attachement" email to a perfectly attached email on a hundred people mailing list becaus of modest.	17:44
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marmoute	luck claws mail is ugly but fonctionnal I never tried meego's one. Maemo Xterm bug prevent to use mutt too.	17:45
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lcuk	marmoute, have you tried to build/use the git version of modest - changes and fixes since pr1.2 included	17:46
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lcuk	http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=56634	17:46
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lcuk	and bug 10206 is included in that afaik	17:47
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10206 Email Attachment not visible if multipart/alternative mime types present	17:47
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crashanddie	lol... The N900 reconfigures itself when you change the simcard? That's new.	17:48
h4waii	Easiest way to launch rtcom-messaging-ui from xterm?	17:49
Stskeeps	crashanddie: no, battery	17:49
crashanddie	Stskeeps: but I didn't change it...	17:49
Stskeeps	crashanddie: took out battery	17:50
crashanddie	oh	17:50
Khertan_	crashanddie: you remove it	17:50
h4waii	You had to remove the battery to swap SIM.	17:50
crashanddie	I think that's the first time I noticed it.	17:50
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crashanddie	I switched my SIM quite a lot when I was in Oz, never had to give my zone again etc.	17:50
h4waii	How long did you leave the battery out for?	17:50
crashanddie	20 seconds?	17:50
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Stskeeps	crashanddie: usually enough	17:52
Stskeeps	a PITA when i code meego	17:52
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lcuk	crashanddie, internal mini clock battery thing	17:53
lcuk	?	17:53
* RST38h looks at the "Nokia CEO Resigns" thread at tmo, satisfied seeing the usual selection of loons		17:54
h4waii	Easiest way to launch rtcom-messaging-ui from xterm?	17:54
ab	are they already in "Microsoft conquers the Nokia" thread?	17:54
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RST38h	ab: Ofbloodycourse	17:55
ab	god save the queen.	17:55
RST38h	ab: Personally, I subscribe to the "he will sell Nokia to Adobe" theory, becuase it is funnier	17:55
ab	that's interesting	17:55
ab	are there any bids at stake?	17:55
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RST38h	In some other context, I would say "credibility", but none of the posters in that thread have got any	17:56
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RST38h	Funny thing is, the guy seemed to preside over BSD-kerneled Project Pink at Microsoft	17:57
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RST38h	No, wait, Wiki says Kin was WinCE based	17:58
ab	RST38h, my understanding that he was chairing business division	17:58
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RST38h	ab: that too	17:58
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RST38h	and worked at some MA fast food places before that :)	17:59
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ab	oversaw Information Worker, Microsoft Business Solutions and Unified Communications Groups.	17:59
RST38h	TheRegister guys have got the scoop: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/nokia_ceo_analysis/	17:59
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DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: lcuk: backup battery borked. Quite usual for ~90% of those components	18:02
lcuk	h4waii, you want to open the whole conversations window or a specific thing within it? (I am sure there is some dbus-send call)	18:02
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DocScrutinizer51	while according to specs the backup battery should last for powering RTC several 1000h, it usually is just enough for some tens of seconds	18:04
Stskeeps	crashanddie: summit proto?	18:05
crashanddie	aye	18:05
Stskeeps	same problem here, might be simply built without a proper battery	18:06
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DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: nah, got 2 devices no summit proto here, both lose RTC after max 120s	18:06
Stskeeps	k	18:06
Stskeeps	weird	18:06
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DocScrutinizer51	it's those crappy LiIon cells	18:07
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DocScrutinizer51	seems they are"mt fit for the way they are treated	18:07
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DocScrutinizer51	both during manufacturing (reflow) and during normal use	18:08
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DocScrutinizer51	for FR we once did a poll: something like 30 of 40 devices had broken cells	18:10
crashanddie	hmm	18:10
* DocScrutinizer51 shudders on the idea of kicking off such poll on tmo		18:10
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DocScrutinizer51	anyway the cells seem same crappy hitachi component as in FR	18:11
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DocScrutinizer51	critical to reflow temperature profile, as well as no word about deep discharge	18:14
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DocScrutinizer51	several reports of even leaking cells	18:14
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DocScrutinizer	oops seiko, not hitachi	18:20
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DocScrutinizer	http://de.mouser.com/catalog/642/2318.pdf	18:20
DocScrutinizer	nominal capacity >100uAh, while RTC supply current usually <<1uA	18:22
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DocScrutinizer	even if RTC would eat an impossible 1mA, it still should give you >6min of RTC operation without main battery	18:23
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DocScrutinizer51	you could argue 80% of N900 are defective and would have to get repair	18:25
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DocScrutinizer51	otoh standby of RTC w/o mainbat isn't a advertised product property	18:26
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GAN900	Modest and Tracker have done so much damage to the platform.	18:33
GAN900	lcuk, open Modest, tap inbox (spinning wheel in toolbar starts), switch to MicroB to read a web page while waiting, get pulled back to Modest when it loads the inbox pane 10 seconds later.	18:34
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DocScrutinizer51	tracker yeah. DIE tracker DIE, burn in hell!	18:36
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DocScrutinizer51	but ohnoes, even meego has mandatory tracker :-((( failwale	18:37
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* DocScrutinizer51 wonders why the hell it's so hard to learn		18:37
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crashanddie	"German officials have created a labyrinth in the shape of a giant sausage to help people learn about the health risks associated with the popular fast food currywurst (curried sausage)."	18:41
crashanddie	(god I'd love to have a curryworst right now)	18:41
Stskeeps	damnit, now i want currywurst.	18:41
Stskeeps	$@$	18:41
GAN900	crashanddie, tax dollars at work?	18:42
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lcuk	GAN900, i can see that as a minor irritant, but not really drastically serious, it was in the middle of something afterall	18:44
lcuk	and as for tracker - come up with a better way.	18:44
andrei1089	hi, I have no internet in scratchbox, but I remember there was some command to fix this. Any hints?	18:44
Stskeeps	etc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is what's messed up	18:44
lcuk	GAN900, perhaps it is something that can be looked at with the hildon ssu stuff down the line	18:44
lcuk	but to know to do that bugs will have to be filed :P	18:45
GAN900	lcuk, have been	18:45
GAN900	Years ago	18:45
GAN900	for the MicroB beta.	18:45
lcuk	i just checked bmo for "focus" bugs	18:45
andrei1089	thanks Stskeeps	18:46
lcuk	huh? this isnt microb issue?	18:46
GAN900	As MicroB pulls the same shit.	18:46
GAN900	It's an everything issue.	18:46
GAN900	But it's an application bug.	18:46
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lcuk	its not app level, and this is something all OSes have issue with	18:47
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DocScrutinizer51	it's a problem of setfocus() not distingushing between intra-app and inter-app focus stealing	18:47
DocScrutinizer51	same problem with modal dialogs	18:48
lcuk	used to happen extremely seriously on windows with IM messaging	18:48
lcuk	you start typing to one person	18:48
lcuk	and a new message pops up over top :D	18:48
GAN900	It's infuriating.	18:48
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lcuk	so you finish sentence intended for your mate to your mum instead	18:49
GAN900	Be nice to have some optimization in Maemo.	18:49
Stskeeps	http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/google-android-2-2-not-designed-for-the-tablet-form-factor/ <- finally	18:50
DocScrutinizer	\o/	18:52
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DocScrutinizer	(modal) try copying the correct e.g. APN settings from a carrier's webpage to settings->internet-connections->GPRS :-S	18:53
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DocScrutinizer	or SIP config, for that behalf	18:54
GAN900	Maemo's the new Windows XP	18:54
GAN900	You can find the Hildon 1.x stuff if you dig deep enough in settings.	18:54
GAN900	"for that matter"	18:55
RST38h	Stskeeps: Just wait and see.	18:55
Stskeeps	RST38h: no, i'm just happy someone finally agreed to my point android was a smartphone os and not much else	18:55
Stskeeps	:P	18:55
lcuk	sigh GAN900 sure, theres probable a boat load of the original kernel still around too and that was written 19 years ago shock	18:56
GAN900	lcuk, not the same as having a mix of paradigms floating around in your OS.	18:57
DocScrutinizer	for BME that seems to be correct :-P	18:57
GAN900	Doesn't really seem to scream polish.	18:57
lcuk	it shouldn't the kernel is Finnish	18:57
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RST38h	Yooohooo:	18:58
RST38h	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.3/	18:58
RST38h	Stskeeps: for another few months maybe.	18:59
lcuk	:)	18:59
DocScrutinizer	wait, WHAT?	18:59
RST38h	[side note] ...and they are breaking binary compatibility again.	18:59
GAN900	Prepare yourself for the last letdown.	18:59
DocScrutinizer	AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHH	19:00
DocScrutinizer	where's the friggin changelog?	19:00
Stskeeps	that's not fremantle-1.3 sdk.	19:00
Stskeeps	also, that "-1.3" is needed cos of the way HAM deals with it	19:01
RST38h	it is an extras repo being prepared for pr1.3	19:01
Stskeeps	look at free/ date	19:01
RST38h	that's all	19:01
Stskeeps	:P	19:01
Stskeeps	yes	19:01
RST38h	right now it is a symlink to 1.2	19:01
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RST38h	GAN: Look at the bright side: once we know there won't be any more PRs, people like MohammadAG won't have to look back when creating repos of bugfixed PR packages	19:02
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DocScrutinizer	meh	19:03
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lcuk	RST38h, how did your qtification get on?	19:05
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Stskeeps	the finnish tv news are really nothing but the nokia news..	19:07
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lcuk	Stskeeps, unexpected today really?	19:08
Stskeeps	not really	19:08
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RST38h	lcuk: Did not have chance to run it	19:11
RST38h	lcuk: Lots of other things to do	19:11
lcuk	sure	19:12
lcuk	you saw that thp did a gtk prototype of gpodder for meego?	19:12
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RST38h	yea	19:13
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lcuk	RST38h, is your front end ui already gtk oriented? (I know the deep down stuff isnt)	19:14
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lcuk	RT @cscoobing BTInfinity fibre optics? With the speed of my line they must get their fibre from All Bran!	19:15
* lcuk giggled @ this tweet		19:16
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DocScrutinizer	WOOOOOW new download statistics	19:17
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, you mean 29.5million (pretty much 30%) in exactly a month? or per package stats?	19:19
DocScrutinizer	no, I mean bargraph instead of that confusing curve	19:19
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DocScrutinizer	also split into extras, -testing, -devel	19:20
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DocScrutinizer	(yellow, blue, magenta)	19:20
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RST38h	lcuk: I have almost no front ui	19:21
DocScrutinizer	our garage wizards did another fancy	19:21
RST38h	(which is exactly the point)	19:21
RST38h	Doc: URL?	19:21
DocScrutinizer	e.g http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/starhash-enabler/#	19:21
lcuk	RST38h, indeed, do you already have a version which (for isntance) renders direct onto an XImage?	19:22
RST38h	thanks	19:22
RST38h	lcuk: Had it for years	19:22
RST38h	Doc:No overall stats for all packages though?	19:23
DocScrutinizer	dunno	19:23
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* RST38h would like to check his suspicion that -testing and -devel downloads exceed plain extras over the last few months		19:25
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fmms/# - well - look	19:25
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SpeedEvil	Though I can't seem to find the raw data anymore	19:26
drizztbsd	why is http://maemo.org/packages/view/horizontal-call/ only in extras-devel? :(	19:27
lcuk	drizztbsd, CONTACT DEV AND ASK HIM?	19:28
lcuk	-caps	19:28
drizztbsd	uhm good idea	19:28
DocScrutinizer	umm, zoom option dropped during upgrade to nice new bargraph statistics	19:29
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RST38h	OMG APPLE ALLOWS FLASH APPS ON IPHONE NOW	19:54
kerio	OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG	19:55
kerio	wait, why should we care	19:55
RST38h	...and the millions of faithful will have to readjust their worldview from "nobody needs Flash, it is slow and sucks" to "iPhone has get the latest bestest Flash of all"	19:56
pronto	because cookies	19:56
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kerio	i liek cookies	19:56
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lcuk	RST38h, I thought it was flash->iphone conversion	19:57
lcuk	not directly running flash?	19:57
lcuk	ie the opening of the api should allow the continuation of other cross platform framework conversions too	19:58
lcuk	errr opening of the licensing	19:58
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RST38h	lcuk: dunno, not sure I want to know	19:58
RST38h	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/shouty_republican/ <=== yesss	19:58
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h4xordood	hey how is maemo global version different from indian version	20:01
h4xordood	?	20:01
h4xordood	i am from India	20:01
h4xordood	and i have n900 with Indian version	20:01
h4xordood	now if i flash with global version	20:02
h4xordood	what would be the benifit	20:02
h4xordood	?	20:02
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FIQ	Hi, which way is recommended, GUI installer or command-line way, for installing the SDK?	20:46
FIQ	because, GUI would be nice for a lazy user, but i would happily use the commandline way if that gives some more possibilities. :p	20:47
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Munkiii	without me rebooting my phone and loading NITDroid, can somebody tell me if cell data is usable yet?	20:50
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zap	Anybody knows if it's possible in Mappero to show the maps one level larger than it shows by default? The map text is quite small for my eyes	20:54
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Munkiii	sorry, havn't got Mappero installed.	20:56
DocScrutinizer51	Munkiii: check netmon	20:56
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E0x	zap: hmm if you zoom it ?	20:56
Munkiii	check netmon? explain more?	20:57
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zap	E0x: if I zoom it, it loads another level with small text	21:00
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E0x	go to the doctor ( just kidding )	21:01
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FIQ	fine, i go for the gui one. :)	21:02
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Munkiii	without me rebooting my phone and loading NITDroid, can somebody tell me if cell data is usable in NITDroid yet?	21:03
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DocScrutinizer51	Munkiii: check netmon	21:04
MohammadAG	X-Fade, ping?	21:04
johns	Hi	21:04
Munkiii	can you explain more?	21:04
X-Fade	MohammadAG: pong	21:05
Munkiii	do i need to install that on NITDroid?	21:05
RST38h	Ah, here he is	21:05
RST38h	MohammadAG: Have you included the latest Modest into the SSU?	21:05
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DocScrutinizer51	Munkiii: this chan's name is #maemo	21:06
FIQ	#nitdroid	21:06
FIQ	there's an official channel	21:06
Munkiii	ah, ok. cheers.	21:07
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MohammadAG	RST38h, afaik yes, I still can't figure how GPG works so.. yeah	21:08
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RST38h	MohammadAG: The bmo claims they have fixed the copy/paste bug	21:08
RST38h	MohammadAG: ALSO, there has been an important update on the swap-fucked-after-5-days bug, let me pull it up...	21:09
MohammadAG	oh, a newer version? lemme fetch that	21:09
FIQ	hm, MohammadAG, did you do a community runned SSU? :p	21:10
MohammadAG	#maemo-ssu	21:10
RST38h	MohammadAG: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6382#c10	21:10
povbot	Bug 6382: Device becomes sluggish after several days	21:10
MohammadAG	nice, PR1.3 speculations starte	21:10
RST38h	Pretty much confirms what ShadowJK has guessed + names some possible culprits	21:10
MohammadAG	d	21:11
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MohammadAG	RST38h, and no workarounds	21:12
h4waii	MohammadAG; PM.	21:12
RST38h	MohammadAG: I cannot think of a possible workaround for this	21:12
MohammadAG	except more RAM	21:13
RST38h	MohammadAG: Discussed it with a friend today, he thinks of tiered swap	21:13
RST38h	MohammadAG: Or faster MMC :)	21:13
MohammadAG	or switch swap to microSD	21:13
RST38h	MohammadAG: But the tiered swap won't help, as MMC takes the same time for short and long "seeks", unlike the real HD	21:13
MohammadAG	preferably class 6	21:13
RST38h	MohammadAG: microSD is not faster. 4bit interface.	21:13
MohammadAG	I read somewhere it was faster...	21:14
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RST38h	MohammadAG: SSU-related fix would be to compile and offer all packages where they fixed memory lekslately	21:14
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: MohammadAG: swapon /dev/mmcblk1p3; swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3; swapon swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3; swapoff /dev/mmcblk1p3	21:16
RST38h	Doc: yea, but this looks intrusive =)	21:16
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RST38h	Doc: Wonder if Nokia will simply roll this into a cron job and release it with PR1.3 though :)	21:17
DocScrutinizer	hmm, whatever that means to me	21:17
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: maybe they are smartasses and don't do it via cron but rather when swap space fragmentation kicks in	21:19
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, swapon swapoff - if you turn the swap off, where does the used memory end up	21:20
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: c&p error	21:20
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: the idea is to swapon a spare prior to swapoff the fragmented	21:21
MohammadAG	lcuk, oblivion	21:21
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, oh sure, wheres the spare?	21:21
RST38h	A'ok, here is a plan	21:22
RST38h	Divide swap partition in two equal parts	21:22
MohammadAG	I wonder how the device runs without swap, at all	21:22
RST38h	Switch between them once the current swap fillsup :)	21:22
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: I've tested this, works as far as there's no errors. Dunno if it's effective as I never encounter that slowdown so far	21:22
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: I used a swap partition already existing on my uSD	21:22
DocScrutinizer	for that test	21:23
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, sure	21:23
lcuk	so now, expand that into something that could be done in the system	21:23
lcuk	RST38h, hm	21:23
lcuk	that gives half available swap at once	21:23
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: that's the better version, but obviously would halve the available swap space	21:24
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DocScrutinizer	better create a second swap partition on eMMC with same size of 768M if you want to keep system properties	21:24
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lcuk	better to find the issue	21:25
DocScrutinizer	the issue has been documented in detail by ShadowJK	21:25
lcuk	and madam dug and spotted a load of things over the last period	21:25
lcuk	the effect or the cause?	21:25
DocScrutinizer	whatever you call the transition from sequential to random writes in swap	21:26
DocScrutinizer	there's always a cause behind the cause	21:27
RST38h	lcuk,Doc: you do not need 768MB swap	21:28
DocScrutinizer	yeah	21:28
RST38h	RAMSize x2 is considered a good swap size	21:28
DocScrutinizer	yep, ack	21:28
RST38h	i.e. at most 512MB per swap partition	21:28
RST38h	Something is telling me that 384MB will do just as well	21:29
DocScrutinizer	I tend to agree	21:29
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RST38h	helo javispedro	21:30
lcuk	evening javispedro \o did you have lag?	21:30
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javispedro	quite :)	21:30
javispedro	HELO.	21:30
mikhas	heya javispedro	21:30
DocScrutinizer	lo javispedro	21:30
FIQ	hm...	21:30
FIQ	now i've restarted the installer 5 times so i'm sure the problem isn't "temporarly"	21:31
FIQ	http://pastebin.com/UQ1vMs4y	21:31
FIQ	any ideas?	21:31
FIQ	line 26 and onwards	21:31
FIQ	is the interesting part	21:31
MohammadAG	wb javispedro!	21:31
javispedro	MohammadAG: see, I told you I would be back by september :)	21:31
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lcuk	RST38h, changing partition sizes would worry lots and complicate many things I would assume	21:32
h4waii	FIQ; do you not have network connectivity?	21:33
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FIQ	well, i'm on IRC, so i guess i have it. ;)	21:33
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h4waii	You might not have it from within scratchbox.	21:33
FIQ	hmm	21:33
FIQ	interesting	21:33
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, mhd!	21:33
h4waii	Check your DNS.	21:33
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, MHD!!!	21:33
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: changing partition count is more of a problem	21:34
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* lcuk2 huggles virgin internet		21:37
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* MohammadAG donwgrades lcuk2		21:38
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MohammadAG	downgrades*	21:38
javispedro	so, what's new?	21:39
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* kerio overclocks MohammadAG		21:40
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* MohammadAG burns		21:40
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MohammadAG	javispedro, oh nothing much	21:40
MohammadAG	Maemo 7's out, and we all upgraded to N1000	21:40
MohammadAG	but you probably knew that :P	21:40
kerio	you only have N1000s?	21:41
kerio	losers!	21:41
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* X-Fade slaps javispedro for not being around more lately		21:41
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kerio	N∞µ here	21:42
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* javispedro usally uses IRC while bored, but he's not exactly been bored these months :)		21:44
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X-Fade	javispedro: Well, we missed you here :)	21:45
javispedro	I've read logs, and ml lists, so just joking -- I do know what's new :)	21:48
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X-Fade	javispedro: Up for trying to OBS for fremantle?	21:49
X-Fade	javispedro: Some of your packages fail because of scratchboxisms :)	21:49
javispedro	Btw, X-Fade. You can still email me with problems with the new (as in, 3 months old new :) ) autobuilder setup	21:50
javispedro	some people have been doing that already, so	21:50
X-Fade	javispedro: Trying to get the OBS in such a shape that it can be a replacement for the autobuilder.	21:50
X-Fade	javispedro: That should be a lot more future proof.	21:51
javispedro	yep	21:51
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X-Fade	javispedro: And it runs without busybox and uses the real tools ;)	21:52
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* javispedro emerges obs		21:56
javispedro	btw if someone is interested in garmin apps/nRoute, I made a liblocation->garmin pvt protocol converter	21:57
javispedro	http://gitorious.org/garminchatd	21:57
javispedro	it's complete enough nRoute works with it	21:58
slonopotamus	meh	21:58
h4waii	LOL	21:58
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slonopotamus	availability of maemo update is easily guessable by repository.maemo.org speed	21:59
X-Fade	slonopotamus: That would probably be the last thing.	22:00
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nomemeshere	hey, is there a way to put a schedule into the maemo calendar (like every tuesday at 8 i have class x, etc)?	22:03
javispedro	yes, you have the usual options -- every week, every month.	22:04
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nomemeshere	there doesn't seem to be a feature for specific days of the week or whatever, id have to go through manually	22:04
javispedro	yes, you have	22:04
nomemeshere	k ill mess with it more	22:04
nomemeshere	there an app for netflix like android and the iphone?	22:05
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* javispedro waves and promises increased IRC presency from now on		22:06
javispedro	see you	22:06
nomemeshere	oh, and how do you actually scroll around the map using maps.google.com mobile version	22:06
nomemeshere	adios?	22:06
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h4waii	Enable cursor mode.	22:06
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nomemeshere	there a way to make maps app less shitty?	22:07
nomemeshere	(thanks I'll try that)	22:07
nomemeshere	also, is there a way to only auto connect to some wifi networks?	22:07
nomemeshere	also, it seems like sometimes switching to gsm only ("2.5G") disconnects me from the web connection, but sometimes it works fine - why?	22:09
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jacekowski	sometimes phone is connected over 2g sometimes not	22:12
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Corsac	hmhm, I'm sure someone already asked the question, but is the gps available somehow remotely without using gpsd and connecting to a wlan?	22:18
Corsac	(like, in pcsuite mode or something)	22:18
h4waii	Available how?	22:19
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DocScrutinizer51	is there a gnu parted somewhere, for maemo5?	22:20
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Corsac	h4waii: in pc suite mode, pluged via usb?	22:22
jacekowski	well, usbnetworking maybe	22:22
Corsac	for gps?	22:24
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Corsac	ha, setup gpsd on the n900 and use that from the computer	22:25
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Corsac	yeah doable but a bit painful	22:26
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trumee	nice. html5 audio tag works in Fennec.	22:34
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Corsac	hmhm, and do we have a list of at commands understood by the ttyACM0 device?	22:34
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nomemeshere	where is traceroute?	22:37
nomemeshere	ping and nmap are there	22:37
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lcuk	traceroute isnt normally required, but certainly not missing from maemo http://maemo.org/packages/view/traceroute/	22:38
nomemeshere	why is the app manage app so incredibly slow and resource consuming?	22:38
nomemeshere	so i just #apt-get install traceroute	22:39
lcuk	because its trying to manage every version of every package thats in -devel, -testing and extras and every other repo you had	22:39
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Chibi-Taiga	humm , guys what can it be that the phone have a cpu load of 11-40% all the time	22:40
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FIQ	tt	22:48
FIQ	er	22:48
FIQ	lol changing window randomly	22:48
FIQ	nvm @ ^	22:48
Chibi-Taiga	guys	22:50
Chibi-Taiga	anyone encode movies for n900 ?	22:50
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MohammadAG	Chibi-Taiga, yeah, someone even melted his battery when he did that on an overclocked N900	22:51
MohammadAG	but yeah, use mencoder	22:51
Chibi-Taiga	i dont oc	22:51
Chibi-Taiga	well i tryed to play psp encoded videos but they seems to heavy for this phone in sib, and regular player dont even support it	22:52
Chibi-Taiga	avc main profile lvl 3 mp4	22:52
Chibi-Taiga	odd though	22:53
MohammadAG	install decoders-support	22:54
Chibi-Taiga	i have	22:54
Chibi-Taiga	but it dont support the psp encoded vids	22:54
Chibi-Taiga	as far as i knoe psp encoders use ffmpeg, mencoder or x264	22:55
Chibi-Taiga	the avc i use use mencoder	22:55
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Zucca	Anyone noticed that if you use ulv kernel-config settings recording a video always fails..? Is this known and does it cound as kernel-power bug?	23:09
h4waii	No it doesn't.	23:09
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Venemo	good evening Maemoers	23:10
Zucca	I guess It just won't work undervolted then. :)	23:10
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Zucca	h4waii: Do you know exactly why it fails then?	23:11
h4waii	Because you're starving the processor.	23:13
Venemo	Zucca: what is the problem?	23:13
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Zucca	h4waii: Well. It seems to work when I lock the frequency to 600MHz but still undervolted.	23:14
Chibi-Taiga	wierd the media play supports by default aav/h264 yet it dont play psp videos of 480x272 h264/avc	23:14
Chibi-Taiga	aac*	23:14
Zucca	Venemo: 23:08:50 < Zucca> Anyone noticed that if you use ulv kernel-config settings recording a video always fails..? Is this known and does it cound as kernel-power bug?	23:15
Zucca	cound = count	23:15
Venemo	Zucca, hm, I think it is because of the ulv	23:16
luke-jr	Zucca: are you intentionally asking ridiculously stupid questions?	23:17
Zucca	Venemo: It worked undervolted. I just tested by locking the cpu speed to 600MHz.	23:17
luke-jr	seriously, it sounds like "I never feed my kids. Why won't they get up and do chores?"	23:17
Zucca	luke-jr: As I said. It still worked undervolted.	23:18
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Venemo	Zucca: Conclusion: that voltage is not enough for more than 600 Mhz.	23:18
luke-jr	Zucca: it doesn't.	23:18
Zucca	So It maybe because the CPU doesn't raise the frequency fast enough to catch up with the vedeo recording software.	23:18
luke-jr	that's what you're complaining about	23:19
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Venemo	Zucca: luke-jr is right	23:19
Zucca	luke-jr: Well. Mine didi work.	23:19
Chibi-Taiga	well if you oc, ocing cpu only wont make that mutch performance you should also oc the ram	23:19
luke-jr	Zucca: good. then stop whining since it works.	23:19
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Zucca	So th eUNDERVOLTING isn't the issue.	23:19
ShadowJK	hm, interesting. Someone gathered statistics on the 3 operators in .fi. Average 3G -> HSDPA wakeup delay: 1290, 880, 1210 ms (for 3 different operators using same equipment). Average packet size required to transition from 3g to hsdpa: 498, 255, 32 bytes. Idle time in HSDPA before dropping back to 3g: 8, 3, 5 seconds.	23:20
luke-jr	Chibi-Taiga: not sure the CPU and RAM are independent here	23:20
Zucca	luke-jr: Am I?	23:20
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luke-jr	in any case, undervolting or overclocking is utterly stupid	23:20
luke-jr	heck, even the 600 MHz Nokia overclocks it is bad enough if kept constantly on	23:21
Chibi-Taiga	well it is good for playing video files ive noticed	23:21
Zucca	luke-jr: On ulv CPU runs on 250MHz when idle. I guess it just doesn't raise the frequency fast enough.	23:22
Zucca	That ain't complaining.	23:22
ShadowJK	So if two full lines of IRC chat happens at the same time, my N900 goes to HSDPA, and stays there for atleast 8 seconds.. No wonder battery drains in no time on 3g :D	23:23
Venemo	Zucca: [22:18:17] <Venemo> Zucca: Conclusion: that voltage is not enough for more than 600 Mhz -> which part you didn't get?	23:23
h4waii	the CPU is rarely ever at idle, FYI.	23:23
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Venemo	h4waii: it spends most of its time idling	23:24
luke-jr	Zucca: even normally, 250 Mhz is buggy	23:24
h4waii	In terms of instructions?	23:24
jacekowski	frequency can be changed instantly	23:24
Zucca	Venemo: I get all of that. And I know at those voltages 600MHz is the max BUT at that level it can record.	23:24
jacekowski	almost instantly	23:24
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luke-jr	Zucca: no, at those voltages, it's not ever acceptable	23:25
h4waii	Zucca, change your sampling and load rate for higher and faster frequency jumps.	23:25
luke-jr	you're damaging the CPU no matter what speed you run it at	23:25
Zucca	luke-jr: Do I have to shoe how I can record videos on ulv @ 600MHz?	23:25
luke-jr	you're damaging the CPU no matter what speed you run it at	23:25
h4waii	Shoe him to death.	23:25
jacekowski	luke-jr: undervolting isn't damagining	23:25
luke-jr	jacekowski: no?	23:25
jacekowski	no	23:25
ShadowJK	h4waii, the CPU spends most of its time at 0 MHz 0 Volt, unless you've messed up something :)	23:25
jacekowski	undervolting may even make it lifetime longer	23:26
jacekowski	not a lot	23:26
Zucca	How undervolting is supposed to _damage_ cpu?	23:26
luke-jr	Zucca: in theory, it's not what it was designed to work with	23:26
luke-jr	to me, undervolting =~ brown-out	23:27
h4waii	ShadowJK, so you're trying to tell me that there is 0 draw from proc when at idle?	23:27
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luke-jr	h4waii: I think he means under 1 volt	23:27
jacekowski	luke-jr: brownouts are only dangerous to memory/cache contents	23:27
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jacekowski	h4waii: yes	23:27
ShadowJK	h4waii, it's pretty damn close :-)	23:27
luke-jr	jacekowski: then why do they destroy computers entirely?	23:27
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jacekowski	luke-jr: it's ussualy what happens after brownout	23:27
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jacekowski	luke-jr: that damages it	23:28
luke-jr	jacekowski: so surge protection really is sufficient⁇	23:28
Zucca	luke-jr: To you, yes. But if you have a wire and if you lower the voltage also the current goes down. It does not shorten the life of that wire. Same goes for the CPU.	23:28
jacekowski	surge protection isn't instant	23:28
Venemo	Zucca: obviously, increase the voltage if you wanna record at a higher clock, then	23:28
jacekowski	Zucca: processes in cpu are little bit more complicated	23:28
h4waii	LOL	23:28
h4waii	a CPU is actually just 17 wires	23:29
Zucca	jacekowski: I just told the basics.	23:29
h4waii	11267.pts-1.HiNGE	23:29
jacekowski	luke-jr: basicaly when brownout happens psu tries to compensate for that and then it may be not able to react fast enough when voltage comes back to normal level	23:30
luke-jr	o	23:30
Zucca	But the basic rule is: udervolting does NOT shorten the life of your cpu.	23:30
luke-jr	so it's dangerous to PSU :P	23:30
SpeedEvil	h4waii: The power drawn when idle is enough so that it can last for 200 hours on battery	23:30
ShadowJK	I'd imagine the mains frequency would be dropping too during a brownout?	23:30
jacekowski	luke-jr: because on brownout lot of equipment will switch off and voltage will go higher	23:30
jacekowski	ShadowJK: yep	23:30
h4waii	If you use your device, it's hardly at idle "most of the time"	23:31
luke-jr	h4waii: even if you use it	23:31
ShadowJK	Well when you have it in your pocket it should be at idle most of the time, or else the battery runs out before the end of the day :)	23:31
luke-jr	h4waii: it's the LCD that draws the power mostly	23:31
jacekowski	in worst case grid may separate to protect still working part of network	23:31
luke-jr	ShadowJK: the battery will run out in a few hours usually	23:32
luke-jr	even in my pocket	23:32
jacekowski	because if it will not separate you may end up with half of country losing power	23:32
h4waii	Haha, the battery will run out by the end of a day, regardless. For me.	23:32
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ShadowJK	luke-jr, mine does a few days when used as a phone	23:32
luke-jr	ShadowJK: to make it last all day, you need to make it useless :P	23:32
ShadowJK	Of course right now I'm downloading stuff at 5 megabit/s :P	23:33
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luke-jr	perhaps I need to figure out a way to tell SIP/XMPP to stfu when there's no use	23:33
ShadowJK	not using charger cable because only place I found the good signal in this room is charger port down in my coffee cup, on top of the 15" CRT :D	23:33
jacekowski	well, it would be nice if os could be clever enough and synchronise wake ups as much as possible	23:33
ShadowJK	Yeah there's libiphb, but i dont think much anything uses it?	23:34
jacekowski	and pause processes that don't have to operate when phone is not used	23:34
Zucca	Venemo: The thing I first said here (and my point was) that recording fails if one uses ulv settings. I wasn't complaining about it. I just noticed it. Then after that someone starts to talk to me like I was complete ass. I even investigated the, so called, problem a bit and realized that you can record on ulv, but you haveto to keep the frequency locked to 600MHz to be able to do that, since cpu doesn't "catch" the video processing fast enough.	23:34
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ShadowJK	And QT is getting, or has, timer slewing so that timers eventually converge and fire simultaneously	23:34
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* luke-jr wonders how long a system will tolerate its connection window set to 0		23:34
h4waii	Won't help shit if the kernel isn't tolerant.	23:34
jacekowski	luke-jr: quite a long time	23:35
luke-jr	jacekowski: know any way to use that? ;)	23:35
jacekowski	luke-jr: connections can be kept in that state for hours	23:35
luke-jr	set all TCP windows to 0 when turning screen off…	23:35
jacekowski	luke-jr: some DoS exploits	23:35
luke-jr	although, then you can miss calls :/	23:35
ShadowJK	Except connections to 4chan, 4chan's server drops all 0-window connections on sight	23:35
ShadowJK	and don't ask me how I discovered this	23:35
luke-jr	I guess this really does need to be app-level	23:36
jacekowski	nope	23:36
jacekowski	kernel can do it	23:36
jacekowski	and unless it's something like irc	23:36
ShadowJK	Well protocol awareness would help alot	23:36
jacekowski	that requires ping every so often	23:36
luke-jr	jacekowski: kernel can't stop traffic except for actual user-needed notifications (calls)	23:36
* ShadowJK already does it for IRC sometimes :P		23:36
ShadowJK	but I'm using a bouncer and do it on the bouncer's server	23:37
SpeedEvil	A smart proxy that can filter and aggregate would be lovely	23:37
SpeedEvil	Quack.	23:37
SpeedEvil	Including web-compressing, and VPN over multiple networks.	23:37
luke-jr	maybe use QoS bits?	23:37
jacekowski	TOS	23:38
luke-jr	whatever	23:38
jacekowski	but tos isn't supposed to be used for that	23:38
luke-jr	jacekowski: why?	23:38
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ShadowJK	i thought the TOS bits were deprecated	23:38
jacekowski	read the rfc	23:38
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ShadowJK	"VPN over multiple networks" <- what does that mean?	23:38
jacekowski	like a roaming	23:39
ShadowJK	Is that like how my IRC goes over openvpn, and openvpn seamlessly moves from wifi to cellular and back?	23:39
jacekowski	yeah	23:39
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luke-jr	jacekowski: RFC says I can't slow down packets with bulk TOS bits?	23:39
jacekowski	luke-jr: RFC specifies what goes into TOS bits	23:39
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: yes	23:40
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Also - rtmp may be blocked if on 2g	23:40
jacekowski	luke-jr: and using this bits for something else may break things	23:41
SpeedEvil	It's handy for my ISP	23:41
SpeedEvil	as it sets the TOS bits depending on what queue traffic is in.	23:41
SpeedEvil	So I can tell what priority my connections are getting	23:41
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Lateralush	I would highly recommend anyone who is able should stop by the upcoming MeeGo meetup - http://www.meetup.com/SFBay-MeeGo-Network/calendar/14595527/	23:44
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luke-jr	jacekowski: RFC specifies a bit of TOS for "Prompt delivery is important"	23:44
luke-jr	jacekowski: why can't that be used to force an aggregate flush?	23:45
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jacekowski	it can	23:45
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luke-jr	so an IP tunnel that has OOB control of flushing (every X minutes, every X bytes, 'now', and "delay" TOS bit)	23:48
luke-jr	maybe a minimum precedence level	23:48
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: something like that	23:48
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: Adding protocol support - forex http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy	23:49
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luke-jr	maybe only flush if low-delay=1 && precedence > priority	23:49
luke-jr	and flush within 10 seconds if low-delay=1 && precedence > routine	23:49
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: that's high-level	23:50
luke-jr	the IP-level system could work if Asterisk and ejabberd are slightly modified to flag message/call packets as low-delay, immediate (or priority, for text) precedence	23:51
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: yes, it's high level.	23:52
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luke-jr	another control for the IP-level design: disable buffering altogether (while the screen is on)	23:52
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: In principle, it'd be nice to be able to have a 'plug and play' bit of buggering software.	23:52
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: Which could have high and low level buggering, including protocol aware.	23:52
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: well, one could always add heureustics to the proxy	23:52
SpeedEvil	err	23:52
SpeedEvil	I should look at the screern while typing.	23:53
SpeedEvil	I was watching my fish.	23:53
luke-jr	iptables can set TOS bits in layer-7	23:53
luke-jr	but sure	23:53
SpeedEvil	What might also be interesting - in principe - would be per-user or process TOS	23:53
luke-jr	might be nicer to use plugins for that	23:53
luke-jr	but it would probably use more CPU on the server	23:53
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luke-jr	I think it's better left to netfilter ☺	23:54
luke-jr	then you can do another unrelated things wiht the protocol inspection results	23:54
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mc_teo`	the last few days ive been constantly getting updates for pyQt demo and full binding packages	23:56
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mc_teo`	everytime i try to update them, i get a corrupt package error	23:56
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mc_teo`	any others getting this, and any idea how to fix	23:57
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