IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-09-08

Noobmonk3y	bacon is the be all and end all of the universe... just ask MohammadAG ....	00:00
kerio	no, i just automatically yell "bacon" once i get the notice	00:00
Noobmonk3y	;)	00:00
Noobmonk3y	lcuk does too, but in real life	00:00
TiagoTiago	juice from fermented pig meat?	00:00
Noobmonk3y	TiagoTiago, ;) - that almost sounds appertising in a scary way	00:00
TiagoTiago	lol	00:00
SpeedEvil	Noobmonk3y: I have heard of bacon vodka.	00:01
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, bacon wine would work	00:01
kerio	BACON!	00:01
* Noobmonk3y lubes MohammadAG 's face with fermented pig juice		00:01
lcuk	but I always have trouble squashing it intpo the bottle and end up eating it first	00:01
TiagoTiago	how can i figure out why things aren't installing nor updating anymore?	00:01
Noobmonk3y	lol lcuk :)	00:01
Noobmonk3y	TiagoTiago, armageddon?	00:01
lcuk	TiagoTiago, because you tried installing the world	00:01
TiagoTiago	lol	00:02
lcuk	btw, for shits n giggles I also set apt-get installing everything	00:02
lcuk	i abandoned it quickly though	00:02
TiagoTiago	:/	00:02
lcuk	theres a few things with mismatched deps on my machine	00:02
lcuk	so would have to try again	00:02
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* Noobmonk3y is hitting the i cant be assed to figure out maemo programming again wall		00:03
TiagoTiago	can you help me figure out how to fix it?	00:03
Noobmonk3y	lcuk, for shits n giggles i go to the dogs n bet £100 etc... yours seems cheaper and less painful	00:03
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Noobmonk3y	TiagoTiago, more info needed, ie... what are you doing, what have you done, etc	00:04
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, well	00:04
lcuk	i just pushed some packages to autobuilder	00:04
lcuk	so not quite painfree tonight	00:04
TiagoTiago	installed a shitload of shit at once with fappman	00:04
Noobmonk3y	lol	00:04
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Noobmonk3y	ooo fappman, the app man that aint any faster? :P (Only personal opinion that is)	00:04
lcuk	TiagoTiago, i would be interested to know exactly what it was	00:04
TiagoTiago	then it froze and eventually rebooted	00:04
lcuk	i dont know if fapman holds a log	00:04
lcuk	but it would be cool	00:04
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Noobmonk3y	can't you clear at-cache lcuk?	00:05
Noobmonk3y	apt*	00:05
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, fapman has one benefit and a few drawbacks vs HAM	00:05
* Noobmonk3y aint no linuxy thing		00:05
lcuk	that is, multi install	00:05
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lcuk	its a good thing	00:05
TiagoTiago	i would be happy to post the log if there is one, help me find it?	00:05
kerio	fapman has a epic name	00:05
Noobmonk3y	true lcuk, but faked, still 1 after the other?	00:05
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, its the UI phase	00:05
Noobmonk3y	kerio.......... Bacon..........	00:05
lcuk	once you set it going	00:05
kerio	BACON!	00:05
lcuk	its less of a hassle	00:05
TiagoTiago	and it doesn't make the device pretty much unusable while installing stuff	00:06
kerio	i should write a baconbot	00:06
lcuk	whilst you are shopping around for apps to install	00:06
Noobmonk3y	could you do a Trout one too please?	00:06
lcuk	"ooh i like dat one, dat one this one, that one" etc	00:06
lcuk	no	00:06
TiagoTiago	~bacon	00:06
infobot	from memory, bacon is a filling substance which will make you even fatter than you already are... Take my advice, bacon is a food for the gods or for underweight models such as that McBeal chick...	00:06
Noobmonk3y	lcuk, to be honest after 10 minutes of app manager i fall asleep......... and well, havent installed anything in a month or so lol	00:06
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lcuk	then do so	00:07
lcuk	lots of updates	00:07
Noobmonk3y	lol :P	00:07
lcuk	i think theres been about 10023204239842398423 updates to healthcheck	00:07
TiagoTiago	perhaps they made HAM so painfully slow to try to scare people from filling up the tiny default /home partition	00:07
lcuk	oh..	00:07
lcuk	TiagoTiago, GTFO	00:08
TiagoTiago	?	00:08
Noobmonk3y	well enabling devel just pees me off now, eveything in appman takes 10 mins... meh, i like quick things	00:08
lcuk	ham is slow because you have -devel -testing extras and the standard repo	00:08
Noobmonk3y	i need to get back into the swing of things :P	00:08
lcuk	and -devel and -testing have many more apps than ever	00:08
Noobmonk3y	lcuk and about 15 other repos lol	00:08
TiagoTiago	i wouldn't expect that to be enough to make things so slow	00:08
lcuk	TiagoTiago, try disabling the -devel and -testing repo	00:09
lcuk	it runs nicely	00:09
lcuk	remember, we werent meant to all have -devel on all the time and HAM has to hold info about every version of every package	00:09
lcuk	and infact	00:10
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, its your fault entirely :P	00:10
TiagoTiago	perhaps they added code to cripple it when it's using those repos t disencourage people from using them and with that save money with offering tech support?	00:10
lcuk	"they"	00:10
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: you also would expect to edit a MB size binary with a text editor	00:10
lcuk	refine correctly please	00:10
DocScrutinizer	under Winblows hahaha	00:11
TiagoTiago	well, obviouslly i would use a text editor that can handle big files and isn't supposed to fuck with non renderable characters	00:11
TiagoTiago	them <.<	00:11
MNZ	>.>	00:11
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lcuk	TiagoTiago, i invite you to offer a fast branch of HAM	00:13
zap	package manager is sooooooooo painfully slow when extras-devel is enabled	00:13
DocScrutinizer	^.^	00:13
DocScrutinizer	v.v	00:13
MNZ	<.>	00:13
DocScrutinizer	>.<	00:13
MNZ	@_@	00:13
TiagoTiago	is fpaman also slow with those enabled?	00:13
lcuk	TiagoTiago, http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager	00:13
lcuk	fapman works slightly differently	00:13
TiagoTiago	§.§	00:13
lcuk	and does not cater for everything HAM does	00:14
lcuk	one is old faithful and road legal/has an MOT etc	00:14
TiagoTiago	what are those things?	00:14
lcuk	the other is a sirtbike	00:14
lcuk	TiagoTiago, does fapman know how to install things after flashing?	00:14
lcuk	does it know how to handle OOM conditions?	00:14
lcuk	etc	00:15
lcuk	does fapman handle updates?	00:15
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TiagoTiago	not automaticly	00:15
* MohammadAG throws a ten foot pole at Noobmonk3y		00:15
TiagoTiago	but it got a upgrade applications button	00:15
lcuk	TiagoTiago, have a proper review of HAM code	00:16
DocScrutinizer	fapman did just one thing: make me deinstall it	00:16
lcuk	I know, i have tried	00:16
MohammadAG	yes, full system updates, none to test :P	00:16
TiagoTiago	won't make a difference, i don't know how to read that stuff yet	00:16
DocScrutinizer	even forgot why	00:16
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* Noobmonk3y smells bacon		00:16
kerio	BACON	00:16
kerio	stop it	00:16
lcuk	kerio, did you get invar working?	00:17
Noobmonk3y	stop what?	00:17
MNZ	Noobmonk3y, stop saying bacon. I thought it was obvious. bacon	00:17
kerio	lcuk: i still have to find a way to display the 3 dots above the n900 in some way	00:17
Noobmonk3y	bacon is still part of free speech i feel, but trout on the other hand......	00:17
TiagoTiago	kerio running a bot that makes him shout bacon when someone says bacon?	00:17
Noobmonk3y	yup	00:17
kerio	no, i'm shouting BACON by hand	00:17
MohammadAG	bacon, kick me :P	00:17
kerio	and it's annoyin	00:17
kerio	g	00:17
Khertan_Home	does it block update from third party repository if an older version of a package exist in maemo repository ?	00:17
* kerio kicks MohammadAG. In the balls.		00:17
Noobmonk3y	lol tis even funnier that you set the script to do it and it annoyes you lol :P	00:17
kerio	i didn't set a script	00:18
MohammadAG	probably not	00:18
MohammadAG	doesn't give a crap about GPG I think	00:18
kerio	i was actually downloading twisted to write a bot	00:18
Noobmonk3y	:P	00:18
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*** baconbacon is now known as kerio		00:19
kerio	got my nickname	00:19
TiagoTiago	what exactly is a "freemantle" afterall?	00:20
* DocScrutinizer wonders if he will ever get to the roots of the bacon running gag		00:20
lcuk	fremantle	00:21
kerio	the fremantle is a wind	00:21
kerio	like the diablo and the harmattan	00:21
lcuk	freemantle is a common typo for fremantle the wind	00:21
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer, most likely not... but in the meantime, enjoy a bacon sarnie :)	00:21
lcuk	DocScrutinizer,	00:21
TiagoTiago	hm	00:21
kerio	DocScrutinizer: i'm writing a bacon bot	00:21
TiagoTiago	where in the world are such winds named like that?	00:21
* DocScrutinizer eating salami, probably contains bacon		00:21
kerio	TiagoTiago: africa	00:22
Noobmonk3y	meh close enough	00:22
TiagoTiago	i see	00:22
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, lcuk REALLY likes bacon. That's about the extent of the origin story.	00:22
kerio	see, os x has felines, ubuntu has... animals, debian has Toy Story characters, and we have winds	00:22
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer, there is an upside with bacon, not only does it wake lcuk up, it gives him popeye style strength, so he can type	00:22
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, original liqbase: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090115_233206.gary.scr.png	00:22
lcuk	contains bacon in the stars	00:22
Noobmonk3y	lol	00:23
lcuk	between myself and lardman we talked and consumed so much bacon back then	00:23
kerio	lcuk: i'm writing a bot that yells "BACON!" every time someone says bacon	00:23
lcuk	and liqbase does infact slide along on bacon grease	00:23
kerio	with limits, of course	00:23
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lcuk	i have an irc bot that responds to bacon with "mmm bacon!"	00:23
MohammadAG	today's forecast will be, cloudy, might rain a bit, with a slight chance of fremantle!	00:23
MohammadAG	lcuk, bacon	00:23
lcuk	<MohammadAG> today's forecast will be, cloudy, might rain a bit, with a slight chance of bacon!	00:24
MNZ	kerio, it would be epic if you didn't filter out the bot's own message	00:24
MNZ	bacon flood FTW	00:24
kerio	MNZ: i was thinking a "BACON!" each minute tops	00:24
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lcuk	i would have to strangle you kerio	00:24
kerio	5?	00:24
lcuk	there are limits and my keyword highlight would go bananas	00:25
kerio	it only responds to other people	00:25
lcuk	does invar work	00:25
lcuk	I have so much stuff on my machine I can't check clean install	00:26
TiagoTiago	talking to me?	00:27
lcuk	kerio actually but anyone will do	00:28
lcuk	i just pushed new libliqbase to -devel	00:28
lcuk	and invar as well	00:28
lcuk	invar is what i need to see if it installs and runs	00:28
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TiagoTiago	how can i check if the repos are up	00:30
TiagoTiago	?	00:30
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Khertan_Home	someone have try to use setStyleSheet on PyQt ?	00:31
Dassu	apt-get update; if no errors occur they are up	00:32
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TiagoTiago	ok	00:36
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TiagoTiago	before i forget again, is there a way to make the vibrator when touching the screen be stronger? somtimes i only hear it starting, and only if it's silent, i can't even feel it, it just twitches a very small bit	00:38
TiagoTiago	hm, the repos are up aparently, i did somthign wrong in fapman i guess	00:38
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Noobmonk3y	TiagoTiago yes... there is a patterns folder, and you can make it stronger... (abit like mce for led stuff)	00:43
Noobmonk3y	but, no idea how	00:43
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TiagoTiago	hm	00:44
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wirelessdreamer	anyone know how to set a seperate domain and username for the n900 sip client?	00:45
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TiagoTiago	why didn't nokia make the letter in the keys as bright as the part in the right arrow of my N900 where the black paint chipped off and the underlying light can shine thru?	00:48
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pupnik	?	00:50
TiagoTiago	there is a part int he right arrow key in my N900 where the black paint chipped off, it is much brighter than the characters and symbols in any of the keys	00:51
joga	pic?	00:51
TiagoTiago	gotta find my camera and put batteries on the charger :/	00:52
TiagoTiago	or at least find a bunch of mirrors to take the picture of the keyboard with the N900 itself	00:52
zap	nice, now how I kill those gasballs? 'killall gasballs'? Enduser-friendly solution? :)	00:52
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MohammadAG	zap, tap the background, an X should appear in the upper right corner	00:56
MohammadAG	Khertan_, Khertan_Home ping	00:56
Khertan_Home	MohammadAG, pong	00:56
zap	indeed, stupid me :)	00:57
TiagoTiago	ok, i tried taking a picture with my N73 (damn, i didn't remember it's camera and screen sucked that hard 0.0 ), i'll upload somewhere and post a link here in a bit	00:57
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TiagoTiago	the difference in brightness isn't as noticeable though	00:57
asj	TiagoTiago: compared to dslr's it's pretty sad to see picks from phones, even the n	00:58
asj	8	00:58
TiagoTiago	with daylight it's surprisingly good though	00:59
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pupnik	http://aquask8ter100.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/crazy-cat.jpg "Aww mom! I only played Final Fantasy for FOUR hours!"	01:04
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TiagoTiago	here http://a.imageshack.us/img819/1269/09072010869.jpg	01:05
TiagoTiago	there is actually a breed of cat that has the tendency of sleeping sitting on their haunches, kinda like on that position in that pic	01:06
pupnik	hmm	01:06
pupnik	that looks like it got chipped somehow	01:07
pupnik	i actually wore through my keyboard from typing	01:07
TiagoTiago	indeed	01:07
TiagoTiago	it doesn't feel like it though, feels just about as smoth as any other key	01:07
TiagoTiago	but why didn't Nokia make the letters and stuff as bright as that?	01:08
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TiagoTiago	what is the command line equivalent of clicking update all in HAM?	01:10
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pupnik	apt-get update i think	01:12
TiagoTiago	doesn't that just refresh the repository data?	01:12
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pupnik	yes	01:13
pupnik	sorry	01:13
TiagoTiago	hm, perhaps it's "upgrade"	01:14
TiagoTiago	can't test it now 'cause HAM is busy thinking meanwhile stuff is locked	01:14
TiagoTiago	seems that was it, or at least that was somthing, lots of text scrolling now	01:15
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TiagoTiago	Can i get Nokia (or someone from inside that should have acess to this info) to answer me how much they proffit on the sale of each N900, or in other words, how much would it cost if it only costed what it costs to make and deliver to the stores?	01:18
SpeedEvil	Of course you can't.	01:19
TiagoTiago	I mean, asking politely and all	01:19
jacekowski	TiagoTiago: i wouldn't be surprised if nokia made loss on n900	01:21
TiagoTiago	really?	01:21
pupnik	TiagoTiago: that N900 looks defective to me.	01:21
jacekowski	i mean, hardware is £200 at least	01:21
jacekowski	+ development cost	01:22
jacekowski	+ shipping	01:22
jacekowski	+ aftercare	01:22
TiagoTiago	I know they make awesome stuff, but is it really worth even more than what they charge ?	01:22
jacekowski	marketing	01:22
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jacekowski	TiagoTiago: there is more to cost of phone than just cost of parts	01:22
TiagoTiago	well, all that money adds up to the final price of the product, unless they really were willing to loose money	01:22
jacekowski	well, n900 is sort of research model	01:22
jacekowski	so i don't think it was designed to make profit	01:23
TiagoTiago	i guess my definition of zero profit price was a bit too oversimplified	01:23
TiagoTiago	pupnik: defective? like soon it will flake off all the ink? or am i under risk of getting lead posining? 0.0	01:23
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jacekowski	well, i think you may be in r&d mode for starters	01:24
jacekowski	because ussualy keyboard is evenly lit	01:24
jacekowski	except when in r&d mode	01:24
pupnik	TiagoTiago: your retailer should honor exchanges for blemished products, if a customer isn't satisfied with them	01:24
pupnik	but your unit is probably too old for such returns	01:24
TiagoTiago	my father bought it in the US during a busyness tripe and brought it to me, it costs too much to buy in the local stores here	01:25
TiagoTiago	perhaps the letter keys are darker 'cause of accumulated finger crud since i probably hit them more than the ones int he corner	01:26
TiagoTiago	depending on the angle they all look more or less about the same amount of brightness, with eception of that spot int he right arrow key	01:26
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TiagoTiago	trip*	01:28
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TiagoTiago	and the customs over here can't be trusted, they've even once managed to "loose" a monster truck	01:28
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TiagoTiago	they've once even*	01:29
jacekowski	seriously?	01:29
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TiagoTiago	It was one of the Bigfoots	01:30
TiagoTiago	the blue ones from Bob Chandler	01:30
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alterego	Think I may have to flash my device soon.	01:33
alterego	The app manager isn't showing any catalogs :/	01:34
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TiagoTiago	somtimes t hat happens to me too	01:35
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TiagoTiago	check the apt-get stuff, see if it gives you any more info	01:35
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alterego	Sure, sometimes it doesn't work, this hasn't worked the 50 so times I've treid over the past week ...	01:36
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TiagoTiago	there might be somthign halfinstalled clogging it	01:37
Sazpaimon_	so, I was discussing with my friend the feasability of desoldering the ram chip on the N900 and replacing it with something larger	01:37
Sazpaimon_	techincally speaking, is it possible?	01:37
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alterego	Sazpaimon_: no, not really.	01:37
TiagoTiago	i would think that techinicly it would be possible, just extremelly difficult and risky	01:38
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alterego	Can someone kick ban iPhone	01:38
TiagoTiago	even if the hardware doesn't get physicly bricked, i imagine there might still need some adaptations int he software side to make it work	01:39
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Sazpaimon_	I've done something simmilar with the original xbox, which also had embedded RAM chips on the mainboard	01:39
sevard	What's the best map format for navit on maemo n810? GPX? OSM?	01:39
Sazpaimon_	I assume if the solder points are the same, it shouldnt make a difference?	01:39
TiagoTiago	isn't the ram actually the same chip where the stuff get's flashed on?	01:40
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Sazpaimon_	what? N900 has ROM and RAM on the same chip?	01:40
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TiagoTiago	it's not really ROM, you edit the files in there, i could be wrong, it coudl be separated from the RAM, but still not read only	01:41
TiagoTiago	you can edit*	01:41
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Sazpaimon_	I'm pretty sure it's a different chip	01:42
TiagoTiago	i think there is a link to the schematics somewher ein the marmo.org wiki	01:43
Sazpaimon_	I dont posess an N900 to dissasemble, but should I get one (since the N9 is likely to be delayed to infinity), I'd like to know if I could possibly upgrade the ram chip	01:43
TiagoTiago	maermo*	01:43
TiagoTiago	maemo*	01:43
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kerio	i don't think there's a separate chip	01:43
Sazpaimon_	D5000 - Combo memory - 64M32 DDR, 128M16 Flash. (POP?)	01:44
Sazpaimon_	you're right	01:44
Sazpaimon_	so I'd need to flash it with the same firmware	01:44
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Sazpaimon_	so the feasability of this is starting to go out the window	01:45
lindi-	or an improved firmware that takes less space :)	01:45
alterego	Sazpaimon_: tbh, I think the feasability was always on a different planet :P	01:45
Sazpaimon_	I'm not even concerned about space, I just dont like to rely on swapspace	01:45
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Sazpaimon_	but, I assume once you get it flashed, the firmware, being based on linux, should just detect available flash/ram space	01:46
TiagoTiago	perhaps you could do some other modification adding something that is about as fast as the ram but can be assigned for swaping?	01:47
kerio	you assume a lot	01:47
TiagoTiago	jacekowski: it was bigfoot #9 http://www.bigfoot4x4.com/bf9.html	01:48
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SpeedEvil	In principle, you could desolder the RAM from on top of the n900 CPU, and resolder on a larger RAM chip.	01:51
SpeedEvil	This is likely to be a rather challenging rework.	01:51
Sazpaimon_	yeah, but with a thin solder point (and very steady hand), it can be done	01:51
SpeedEvil	Sazpaimon_: You are about 20 years out of date	01:52
Sazpaimon_	?	01:52
SpeedEvil	IR + reballing kit + possibly x-ray inspection.	01:52
SpeedEvil	It's a very, very fine pitch BGA	01:52
zap	Anybody willing to test bash3 for Fremantle? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/bash3/3.2-0maemo9/	01:52
SpeedEvil	In principly, you could also upgrade the cpu to the 750MHz speed-grade.	01:53
TiagoTiago	please make sure to document all the steps of the process, even if you endup with a bricked piece people will wanna read about it and see what you were doing	01:53
SpeedEvil	But in practice, I'd be surprised at a yield of 10%	01:53
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SpeedEvil	That is - 10% for a skilled operative.	01:53
SpeedEvil	With good equipment	01:53
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TiagoTiago	by yield you mean how many of the attempts succeed?	01:56
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ufear	hiya guys, I got a N900 few days ago, now trying to setup z-push, but appears my N900 is not making any connections to the webserver but MfE keeps giving an 'server is not an exchange server' error, anyone have a clue what is going on?	01:57
Gh0sty	the soldering itself is doable	01:57
Gh0sty	but having the ram chip intact is another thing :p	01:57
Sazpaimon_	do you think the firmware would support such a change in the first place though?	01:57
SpeedEvil	Sazpaimon_: There is no firmware.	01:58
Gh0sty	hehe	01:58
TiagoTiago	that hole int he right arrow key is kinda supernatural, like, it feels like it is dragging me into it o.o	01:58
Gh0sty	sounds like the matrix	01:58
Gh0sty	there is no spoon!	01:58
SpeedEvil	Sazpaimon_: Or rather - the initial boot firmware does support multiple RAM sizes	01:59
Gh0sty	anyway what should it do ...	01:59
Gh0sty	its not like extra ram would hurt	01:59
Gh0sty	worst case it just can't allocate it	01:59
SpeedEvil	Worst case is it doesn't boot, as it doesn't understand the format fo the RAM.	01:59
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Gh0sty	format?	02:00
Gh0sty	there is a format in ram? :p	02:00
TiagoTiago	worstcase you burn your hand, the hand holding the N900 cause you poked the soldering iron too deep	02:00
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SpeedEvil	yes.	02:00
Gh0sty	i would have guessed it just allocates something it can read from it too? :)	02:00
SpeedEvil	Gh0sty: Number of pages, page sie, ...	02:00
SpeedEvil	Gh0sty: It's annoyingly more complex than that. Modern RAM datasheets are around 40 pages.	02:00
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Gh0sty	hehe possible	02:02
Gh0sty	not into analysing those things :p	02:02
SpeedEvil	Well - the CPU datasheet is 3500 pages.	02:02
Gh0sty	only got the soldering skills to do some xbox / ps mod chips :p	02:02
Gh0sty	not really read datasheets around whats actually going on inside :)	02:03
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TiagoTiago	what does this tells me? http://pastebin.com/KCusV2xG	02:04
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lcuk	TiagoTiago, python support failed	02:06
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TiagoTiago	ok	02:06
TiagoTiago	how can i fix it?	02:06
SpeedEvil	Have you tried turning it off and on again?	02:06
TiagoTiago	lol	02:06
Gh0sty	anyway what would be the point in installing a larger ram chip? (did not follow the whole discsussion ... )	02:06
SpeedEvil	To gert more RAM.	02:07
TiagoTiago	having more ram and needing less slow swap?	02:07
SpeedEvil	Silly person.	02:07
Gh0sty	its not enough right now? :p	02:07
SpeedEvil	512M of RAM would _significanty_ ease performance for som esilly people.	02:07
SpeedEvil	For example - those that want 14 tabs open in firefox.	02:07
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TiagoTiago	lol	02:08
TiagoTiago	only 14? Xp	02:08
Gh0sty	on my desktop I have on averag 50 tabs open	02:08
Gh0sty	but ok its a mobile device ... :p	02:08
Gh0sty	its not a friggin laptop or desktop	02:08
Gh0sty	fuel cell for it would be great though ;)	02:08
SpeedEvil	On my desktop I have I think 100	02:08
SpeedEvil	over 3 windows	02:09
DocScrutinizer	honestly, if you manage to upgrade ram on N900 you're my hero. I'd however bet real money you will prefer to give me that money rather than spending 100 times the amount for hundereds of killed N900 until you maybe by real luck manage to get a working sample	02:09
SpeedEvil	I need to close some.	02:09
TiagoTiago	ive had moments where i had likealmost 12 windows of microB oppened though.....	02:09
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ufear	they should make a swappable battery slot	02:09
ufear	with a 1 minute 'proxy' battery in between	02:09
ufear	so you can swap batteries on the fly	02:09
Gh0sty	hotswap battery would be something :p	02:09
ufear	like in photo cameras	02:10
ufear	:P	02:10
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I'd strart by buying virgin omaps, and virgin RAM, and soldering the two together, then x-ray inspect.	02:10
ufear	except that it shouldn't go off	02:10
TiagoTiago	indeed	02:10
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SpeedEvil	Then solder	02:10
ufear	anyway, must be people here with z-push and N900 working? :(	02:10
DocScrutinizer51	forget it, you can not buy slices of a POP	02:10
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Digikey disagrees	02:10
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: In that the omap3530s they have are in the right package, but with no RAM on top	02:11
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TiagoTiago	what? that is stupid! TV is saying that once you listen to it the first time your voice mail isn't private anymore and people can liisten to it even if they invade the system without it being an issue int he eyes of the law!!!! What sort of idiots are making the laws?	02:13
Gh0sty	why not replace the whole cpu if you're heating your iron anyway :p	02:13
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: No.	02:13
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: It's not quite that.	02:14
TiagoTiago	Would you mind enlightening me please?	02:14
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: The RIPA act - Regulation of investigatory powers - act is an act regulating surveilance.	02:14
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: Under this act - it would be an offence to read the mail first	02:15
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: It would hoever still be an offence under the Computer Misuse Act	02:15
TiagoTiago	so it ceases to be private once you read/listen to it the first time even if you keep it behind passwords etc?	02:15
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SpeedEvil	no.	02:16
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TiagoTiago	it jsut looses the mail sanctity?	02:16
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SpeedEvil	It is not an offence to read it under that section of the regulation of in... act to read it	02:16
SpeedEvil	It would still be an offence under the computer misuse act	02:16
TiagoTiago	Doe sthis apply to physical mail too?	02:17
Gh0sty	oh well in france they just passed a bill to inspect all internet traffic to see if you're making illegal downloads and if you do cut your internet	02:18
Gh0sty	big brother has taken over all control!	02:18
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TiagoTiago	have they made encryption illegal yet?	02:19
Gh0sty	time to go encrypted	02:19
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SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: no - electronic only.	02:19
TiagoTiago	sooner or later we'll have to go sneakernet, Mirror's Edge is prophetic!	02:20
SpeedEvil	Moonbounce wok-fi.	02:20
SpeedEvil	It's the only way.	02:20
lcuk	GAN900, this is one thread for you :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=809867#post809867	02:20
Gh0sty	On the other hand, some (notably Lcuk)	02:21
Gh0sty	lol :)	02:21
TiagoTiago	i want a prog to measure my WPM count	02:21
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: www.mytypingspeed.com	02:22
lcuk	Gh0sty, hm?	02:22
SpeedEvil	err - not that	02:22
* lcuk hasnt been reading		02:22
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lcuk	a typing test thing is on the thread	02:22
TiagoTiago	k	02:22
TiagoTiago	thx	02:22
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TiagoTiago	that is a parked domain :(	02:22
lcuk	MohammadAG51, you fail	02:22
SpeedEvil	http://www.calculatorcat.com/typing_test/	02:23
SpeedEvil	though there are lots of similar ones.	02:23
TiagoTiago	wo'nt running thru microB make ther measruements less accurate?:	02:23
SpeedEvil	no	02:24
Gh0sty	lcuk: a copy from the second post in the url you just posted :p	02:24
lcuk	yeah	02:24
lcuk	i saw lol	02:24
lcuk	i said i should sleep :)	02:24
lcuk	and I will	02:25
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Gh0sty	hmm btw i saw somewhere a "reboot" button on some screenshot in stead of "shut down"	02:27
Gh0sty	in which package is that hidden? :p	02:28
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TiagoTiago	you cane dit the file for it yourself	02:30
TiagoTiago	just uncomment the relevant part	02:30
TiagoTiago	i don't remember the name of the file nor it's path though	02:30
TiagoTiago	but don't reboot too many times without shutting down properly in between, somthign bad happens i don't remember what exactly	02:32
Gh0sty	:/	02:32
TiagoTiago	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55734&highlight=reboot+power+button	02:35
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: even when you manage to get a proper working SoC POP with higher clock and more ram, it's absolutely nontrivial to solder it to the PCB without destroying all the other components	02:39
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SpeedEvil	Sure.	02:39
DocScrutinizer	even industry has problems with downside components falling off board during upside reflow	02:40
TiagoTiago	i don't know enough about scripting and stuff, could oen of you make me a script that will take a text file with package names one per line, will remove each package, and then add them, each one by one isntead of all at once please? Or is this somthing that woudl demand too much effort?	02:41
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Macer_	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8574	02:52
povbot	Bug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available	02:52
Macer_	is there somewhere where I might be able to find a new modest?	02:52
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Macer	or actually. i guess the problem is with tinymail	02:53
TiagoTiago	Actually, nvm, i'm studying the list of packages and there are some that by the name seem to be important, that approach might not work for this :(	02:53
Macer	since dev on maemo seems to have come to a halt. should i just not expect a patched update for modest?	02:53
MNZ	Macer, weren't you talking about selling your N900 just yesterday or day before?	02:55
Macer	i still am	02:55
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Macer	but i would like the email client to be able to work with zimbra :-P	02:55
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Macer	nitdroid email client works fine	02:56
Macer	claws works fine	02:56
Macer	trojita works fine	02:56
Macer	modest.. the ONLY integrated email client for maemo... broken	02:56
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SpeedEvil	Fix it then.	02:57
SpeedEvil	It's opensource.	02:58
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Macer	for what? a dead os?	02:58
Macer	:)	02:58
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Macer	i'm sure modest will carry over into meego	02:58
Macer	so maybe they will fix it there	02:59
Macer	by far the absolutely best thing ever made for maemo.. was telepathy. it is just awesome	03:00
Macer	i'd give anything in the world to see it go over to android.. telepathy/rtcomm is just awesome	03:00
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pupnik	http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/What_is_Enlightenment%3F "What is Enlightenment?" by Immanuel Kant <<< surprisingly good for 1784	03:05
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SpeedEvil	pupnik: apt-get install flashlight	03:08
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pupnik	:)	03:09
pupnik	SpeedEvil: "That the step to competence is held to be very dangerous by the far greater portion of mankind (and by the entire fair sex) - quite apart from its being arduous is seen to by those guardians who have so kindly assumed superintendence over them."	03:09
pupnik	^^ public schooling	03:09
* SpeedEvil hits pupnik with a trout.		03:10
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raster	pupnik: bah! so wrong!	03:11
raster	http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=about&l=en	03:11
raster	THATS what enlightenment is!	03:11
raster	damnit!	03:11
raster	:)	03:11
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TiagoTiago_	apt-get -f install = http://pastebin.com/rtheKjHv help?	03:12
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pupnik	:) raster	03:13
pupnik	"If I have a book which understands for me, a pastor who has a conscience for me, a physician who decides my diet, and so forth, I need not trouble myself. I need not think, if I can only pay - others will easily undertake the irksome work for me. " -Kant	03:14
TiagoTiago	that sounds so current	03:14
SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_WRFJwGsbY	03:16
pupnik	yes!	03:16
pupnik	this essay is very direct and modern, that's part of my surprise	03:16
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pupnik	philosophers generally were quite wordy in those days	03:16
TiagoTiago	Other texts weren't?	03:17
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TiagoTiago	ah, "philoshopehres", ok, i need sleep x.x	03:18
TiagoTiago	erm, damn	03:18
TiagoTiago	phylosophers"	03:18
TiagoTiago	meh, close enough	03:18
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TiagoTiago	MNZ?	03:24
MNZ	TiagoTiago, hm?	03:25
TiagoTiago	you were the one helping me the other day, right?	03:25
MNZ	with the python stuff, yeah	03:25
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TiagoTiago	are you busy?	03:25
MNZ	yes actually. if it's something quick I can take a look, but nothing too much	03:26
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TiagoTiago	[21:12]<TiagoTiago_>apt-get -f install = http://pastebin.com/rtheKjHv help?	03:26
TiagoTiago	what shuold i do?	03:26
TiagoTiago	or too much for you to decypher right now?	03:26
MNZ	too much. plus I never dealt with easydebian. plus I would need plenty of history on what exactly fscked up the package system so much	03:28
MNZ	sorry mate	03:28
TiagoTiago	i used fapman to install lots of shit at once	03:28
TiagoTiago	that's the background	03:28
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TiagoTiago	well, thanx anway	03:37
ds3	\	03:39
TiagoTiago	\|	03:40
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TiagoTiago_	/	03:42
GAN900	Looks like the right wing of a TIE-Bomber.	03:42
johnx	hey GAN900 :D	03:43
TiagoTiago_	lol	03:43
GAN900	Hi, johnx. :D	03:43
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DocScrutinizer	hey	03:52
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johnx	DocScrutinizer, hi	03:53
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* GAN900 chuckles at the Red Sox.		04:04
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MNZ	night #maemo!	04:07
johnx	GAN900, in soviet new york, red sox chuckle at you	04:07
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GAN900	14 to 2, Rays.	04:35
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TiagoTiago_	I odn't wanna have to reflash again so soon :(	04:43
johnx	TiagoTiago, what did you break this time? :P	04:44
TiagoTiago_	thing swon't install or update	04:44
TiagoTiago_	[21:12]<TiagoTiago_>apt-get -f install = http://pastebin.com/rtheKjHv help?	04:44
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johnx	usual stuff. output of df -h and where did you get wget from?	04:46
SpeedEvil	lcuk	04:46
SpeedEvil	oops	04:47
TiagoTiago_	it probably came with one of the many things i tried to install at once	04:47
johnx	and where did those things come from?	04:47
TiagoTiago_	fapman	04:47
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johnx	which repository did they come from?	04:48
TiagoTiago_	all 3 i guess	04:48
TiagoTiago_	just about all of them i already had installed previously but i was installign everythign again cause i've reflashed it all	04:49
johnx	well, run apt-cache policy wget	04:49
johnx	see which repo it came from	04:49
TiagoTiago	http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=HZ4yUzsh df-h	04:49
johnx	also, did you install something that auto-optifies things?	04:50
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TiagoTiago_	i don't think i did, might have misclkied while selecting stuff in fapman, was so much stuff i didn't even confirmed if i really marked each thing, i was expecting that later i would look at the list agian and add the things i missed int he first pass	04:51
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TiagoTiago	damn router keeps messing up	04:56
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TiagoTiago_	http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2JCE1xZd the policy thing	04:59
TiagoTiago	johnx: stil there?	04:59
johnx	TiagoTiago, I am, but I don't have any ideas, and frankly I ran out of energy to troubleshoot other peoples' problems today. sorry :/	05:01
TiagoTiago	ok, thanx anyway	05:01
johnx	if you're tired of reflashing, it's probably time either get better at fixing stuff or stop playing around with extras-devel	05:01
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TiagoTiago	lol	05:01
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johnx	eventually people get tired of helping you fix stuff that you broke. sorry to be direct, but it's true	05:02
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TiagoTiago	i first reflashed because of overclocking, then because i kept turning the phone on and off and swaping the sim too fast, and now aparently for getting a bit too impacient with resintalling all my stuf back	05:03
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TiagoTiago	:\	05:04
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TiagoTiago	is there a way i can run a command that will uninstall every adidtional thing automaticly leaving the device close to a fresh reflash?	05:16
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dotblank	Wow, that Okuda theme is really nice	05:24
TiagoTiago	is there a way i can run a command that will uninstall every adidtional thing automaticly leaving the device close to a fresh reflash?	05:24
johnx	not as far as I know	05:24
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TiagoTiago	:(	05:28
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TiagoTiago	if i keep reflashing at the first sign of problems i'll never learn why problems happen and how to fix them :/	05:29
johnx	100% agreement there :)	05:29
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GeneralAntilles	dotblank, Ian knows what he's about with theming.	05:30
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johnx	so it's time to start doing some reading, some troubleshooting, and lots of google searching	05:30
TiagoTiago	lol	05:30
johnx	heh. I'm dead serious. Everyone starts somewhere.	05:31
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jpinx-eeepc	TiagoTiago: you just need to have a bit more patience - I keep a scratchpad file and copy/paste the cl to it	05:33
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jpinx-eeepc	TiagoTiago: and make copies of your important stuff - it's all standard practice and you can't expect unlimitied help if you don't do the basics	05:35
TiagoTiago	pardon my ignorance, whatsa scrtchpad file?	05:35
TiagoTiago	it's all backed up, but hte bigegst part is reisntallign and settign all the prgorams and gaems and stuff again	05:35
TiagoTiago	Scratchpad*	05:36
TiagoTiago	gah, damn typos	05:36
jpinx-eeepc	TiagoTiago: just a text file of notes of what you are doingg	05:36
TiagoTiago	ah, i see	05:36
TiagoTiago	is there a way i can autoamte that?	05:36
jpinx-eeepc	apart from reading the log, no	05:37
TiagoTiago	like set it up so all console commands i type and results get added to some log?	05:37
TiagoTiago	i mean, like in a file, the buffer of the terminal often runs out	05:37
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jpinx-eeepc	TiagoTiago: yea - I curse the buffer ;)	05:38
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jpinx-eeepc	TiagoTiago: I sometimes copy the buffer into a scratchfile, for important stuff	05:39
TiagoTiago	i don't always know the ou tput of a command will fill up the buffer	05:40
johnx	or install bash and take advantage of the .bash_history	05:40
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jpinx-eeepc	johnx: will the basic maemo take bash?	05:42
johnx	isn't it in extras or extras-devel?	05:42
johnx	s/devel/testing/	05:42
infobot	johnx meant: isn't it in extras or extras-testing?	05:42
johnx	I thought I saw it there ...	05:42
* jpinx-eeepc can't look atm		05:42
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jpinx-eeepc	TiagoTiago: Good neews -- bash is available for us! this should solve a lot of you (and my) problems	05:48
TiagoTiago	:)	05:48
TiagoTiago	does it replace the regular stuff or what?	05:50
johnx	nope	05:50
johnx	that'd be kinda bad :)	05:50
jpinx-eeepc	no - install it and choose it	05:50
TiagoTiago	really? why?	05:50
jpinx-eeepc	keep the original in case you have problems	05:51
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* jpinx-eeepc gets the feeling that TiagoTiago is a tad brutal on the system ;)		05:51
TiagoTiago	ah, of course,	05:51
johnx	because scripts sometimes rely on very specific behavior from the shell they're run in	05:51
TiagoTiago	i meant does it take place of the regular stuff while it is installed?	05:51
TiagoTiago	yo'ure saying it doesn't, it jsut hangs int he corner untill you go for it?	05:52
johnx	I think so	05:53
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johnx	otherwise I think it'd cause the N900 to behave badly	05:53
jpinx-eeepc	my guess is that it'll install and wait for you to select it	05:53
TiagoTiago	is there a command for apt-get or similar to fix all dependencies and ask me A or B to resolve conflicts?	05:54
johnx	aptitude	05:54
TiagoTiago	just that or do i add some parameters?	05:55
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johnx	install it (if you can), then run it as root	05:57
johnx	then read up on how it works :)	05:57
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TiagoTiago	sigsegv segmentation fault :(	06:04
johnx	bummer	06:05
TiagoTiago	no way aroudn that, is there?	06:06
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johnx	well, it works here, so I think your install is hosed in some bad way	06:09
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johnx	ah, nevermind, cancel that. sigsegv here too	06:09
johnx	your problem isn't conflicts so much as packages failing to install in bad ways	06:10
johnx	so I don't think it would have helped your main problem all that much	06:11
TiagoTiago	how abut a way to uninstall everythign that isn't properl installed?	06:11
TiagoTiago	properly*	06:11
CreamyG	sweet, i've recompiled conky to have proper support for the n900 battery and it's working	06:12
TiagoTiago	cool	06:12
CreamyG	now you can set a different update interval for when it's plugged in or not	06:12
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CreamyG	i'll upload some code now at least it's not crashing :D	06:13
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ShadowJK	CreamyG, what does "Proper support" mean here..	06:16
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CreamyG	read battery status from sysfs (not HAL) but this is good enough for conky to know the % and draw battery bars and stuff i hope	06:18
TiagoTiago	would it be safe to just apt-get remove each of those packages listed in the end of the output?	06:18
CreamyG	i have to make a conf file to test that but it at least is able to tell if it's charging or not for sure. also this is on the 1.8.0 codebase so has some more variables and stuff to play with.	06:19
johnx	TiagoTiago: just be careful that it doesn't remove any important packages in the process	06:19
TiagoTiago	hwo do i know if a package is important?	06:19
johnx	apt will tell you if it's really important	06:20
johnx	but it may still let you remove somewhat important nokia packages that aren't available except through a reflash	06:20
TiagoTiago	it will be different frm those warnings about ading or releasing disk space,. right?	06:20
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TiagoTiago	hm	06:20
ShadowJK	CreamyG, I guess that requires power kernel?	06:20
TiagoTiago	libhildonmm is safe?	06:21
CreamyG	yeah for now, but the HAL stuff can be added, i just want to do one step at a time.	06:21
johnx	TiagoTiago: use apt-cache policy libhildonmm	06:21
johnx	see if it's available in a repo	06:21
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TiagoTiago	things like games and editors etc i recognize from the list fromt he repos i can just go ahead and remove without needing to check, right?	06:22
johnx	only if you're sure you either don't care about them or that they really are from extras	06:23
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TiagoTiago	what do you mean don't care?	06:25
johnx	I mean, you probably can't re-install the built-in 'marbles' game without reflashing, but if you don't care about it, then just get rid of it	06:26
TiagoTiago	ah, ok	06:26
TiagoTiago	why is that? some licensing c=issues?	06:26
TiagoTiago	issues*	06:26
TiagoTiago	weird typo 0.o	06:26
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johnx	yeah	06:27
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lolloo	If someone wants to start to learn Linux specially for maemo 5 OS , where shall I start?	06:37
scp1	by reading the source? :p	06:38
scp1	or... the maemo documentation	06:38
johnx	lolloo: honestly, it'd be easiest to learn linux in a more 'comfortable' distribution like fedora or ubuntu (or even debian or gentoo). the things you learn there would definitely apply to maemo (especially debian and ubuntu)	06:39
johnx	maemo is kind of "cut down" to fit on the small hardware. It has less flexible command line tools and very little documentation on the device itself	06:40
scp1	... until you install them :>	06:40
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lolloo	what is the closest os for maemo?	06:41
lolloo	thank you johnx	06:41
johnx	debian and ubuntu are closest	06:42
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luke-jr	scp1: how does one read the source when it's closed?	06:46
scp1	luke-jr, uh, what?	06:48
luke-jr	scp1: Maemo isn't open source. You can't learn it from reading the code	06:48
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luke-jr	just bits and pieces they're obliged to leave open	06:49
scp1	I thought there just things like the gsm modules that wasnt open?	06:49
luke-jr	"things" make up a majority	06:49
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scp1	'Maemo is mostly based on open source code'	06:51
scp1	and, uh... http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo/open-source/	06:51
luke-jr	scp1: note that it never says Maemo is open source, just maemo.org	06:53
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scp1	lulz	06:55
luke-jr	it's called sneaky marketting	06:55
scp1	well http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages	06:55
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luke-jr	scp1: well what?	06:56
scp1	well there you have what's closed I assume?	06:56
luke-jr	some of it	06:56
luke-jr	along with lame excuses	06:58
scp1	yeah.	06:58
CreamyG	well at least meego has hope	06:59
scp1	Well that wont be 100% open source either I guess	06:59
luke-jr	CreamyG: not really, last I heard Nokia is going to try to force other platforms that want to use MeeGo to become closed too	06:59
scp1	uh	07:00
scp1	wtf are they doing	07:00
luke-jr	kicking their own butts, as usual, IMO	07:00
CreamyG	yeah, well, at least we don't have sony phones	07:01
asj	luke-jr: lol, we all love you	07:01
scp1	Is there a reason to use 'alarm' instead of dcron or whatever?	07:01
asj	scp1: battery savings	07:02
scp1	uh I dont care about that	07:02
luke-jr	…	07:02
asj	scp1: anyone but you want to use your app?	07:02
scp1	asj, what?	07:03
luke-jr	scp1: then get an Atom	07:03
CreamyG	i wish someone would write an app to switch profiles in meetings	07:03
CreamyG	i miss that feature of whatever symbian app did that for me	07:03
asj	scp1: you asked for a reason to alarm, presumable you want to write an app or something	07:03
scp1	Since I'm always at home with the power plugged in to the n900, there's no reason for me to try to save the planet by not wasting resources :>	07:03
asj	CreamyG: how does it know you are in a meeting?	07:03
luke-jr	scp1: why the heck do you have a N900 at all then?	07:04
CreamyG	uhh, calendar	07:04
CreamyG	it could just guess if my task says blah MEETING blah blah blah	07:04
scp1	luke-jr, because my 3310 died	07:04
scp1	asj, yeah, maybe	07:04
asj	CreamyG: ah, not all my meetings in my calendar are silent times, but interesting	07:04
luke-jr	scp1: if you're not moving, just get a destkop	07:04
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asj	CreamyG: there a couple apps to schedule silent times	07:05
asj	(not the same, but soimething)	07:05
CreamyG	yeah i use that already, i guess i could schedule my weekly meetings like that. it's not like the stupid calendar figured out my meeting yesterday was cancelled either.	07:06
luke-jr	…	07:07
CreamyG	maybe my boss didn't cancel it properly, outlook insisted on beeping at me today HEY YOU MISSED THIS "CANCELLED MEETING" BY 25 HOURS	07:07
luke-jr	…	07:08
CreamyG	man i hate the garage on maemo now, why is it so slow	07:08
asj	CreamyG: it's something anyways	07:09
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GeneralAntilles	Vote here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61869	07:16
GeneralAntilles	If you don't have a Talk account, get one and vote.	07:16
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luke-jr	why	07:20
luke-jr	you didn't even say what the poll was about	07:21
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GeneralAntilles	It's about how many apps you use on your N900 day-to-day.	07:21
GeneralAntilles	Summary is in the first post.	07:21
GeneralAntilles	Just vote.	07:22
* FIQ makes a Talk account		07:22
FIQ	uh, right, i have one	07:22
* FIQ logs in		07:22
GeneralAntilles	And thanks in advance! :)	07:22
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: voted 1-3	07:22
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, excellent.	07:22
FIQ	vme usually have a lots of things running	07:22
lolloo	am voting too	07:22
FIQ	s/v/\//	07:22
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luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: and IMO, browsers are all too bloated nowadays to expect people to open links with no description	07:22
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, I'm sorry for using up your valuable RAM. :P	07:23
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* timoph votes 1-3		07:23
scp1	14 here	07:23
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: I'm actually not swapping for once	07:23
FIQ	speaking about browsers, why is the title attribute inactive?	07:23
jpinx-eeepc	where are the contacts and sms messages stored? I'd like to do a manual backup	07:24
luke-jr	sorry, I take that back	07:24
luke-jr	swapping by 22%	07:24
FIQ	it has always been that for me @ mobile browsers, and i've never liked it	07:24
luke-jr	sigh	07:24
GeneralAntilles	jpinx-eeepc, I think the backup application grabs them.	07:24
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GeneralAntilles	and I wonder how Peter defines applications. . . .	07:24
GeneralAntilles	Windows or actual application processes.	07:25
luke-jr	…	07:25
jpinx-eeepc	GeneralAntilles: ok - but I'd really like to do a manual backup/edit	07:25
GeneralAntilles	Because I usually run MicroB, XChat, Modest, FBReader, and sometimes the Media Player.	07:25
timoph	I'd guess he means open windows	07:25
luke-jr	if it were processes, I'd have to go with like 500	07:25
GeneralAntilles	Plus SMS	07:25
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, GUI stuff, obviously.	07:25
GeneralAntilles	But that's between 6 and 10 open windows.	07:25
scp1	ps u would give a better number imo	07:25
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lolloo	what does these all do GeneralAntilles	07:25
FIQ	he ofc means processes!	07:26
FIQ	and don't forget counting Xorg	07:26
luke-jr	IMO, N900 isn't usable with too many apps running	07:26
luke-jr	so some of the low-numbered votes would be higher if it were practical	07:26
GeneralAntilles	Voting higher can't hurt. ;)	07:26
luke-jr	too late	07:26
GeneralAntilles	lolloo, MicroB is the browser, XChat for IRC, Modest for email, FBReader for books.	07:26
lolloo	wow nice	07:27
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FIQ	lol, aMSN failed one day and opened "do you want to add this contact" for everyone i already had	07:27
lolloo	i will try them	07:27
FIQ	ended up with 100+ windows	07:27
FIQ	and not really a major slowdown	07:27
FIQ	but i was forced to kill amsn in xterm	07:27
lolloo	how do you kill FI	07:28
luke-jr	killall KI	07:28
luke-jr	killall FI	07:28
lolloo	hhhhh	07:28
luke-jr	killall -9 FI	07:28
luke-jr	reboot -f	07:29
jpinx-eeepc	still looking for where the contacts list is stored, and sms, any ideas ?	07:29
luke-jr	jpinx-eeepc: /home/user	07:29
* FIQ votes on the highest one ("plenty, never close")		07:29
FIQ	meh	07:30
FIQ	3 votes...	07:30
FIQ	fu all :D	07:30
luke-jr	no u	07:30
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jpinx-eeepc	luke-jr: as what?	07:31
FIQ	6-9 used to be true on my P1i, or sometimes 9+, but my P1i would complain if i had it like that a longer time. :P	07:31
FIQ	on my old phone i meant	07:31
FIQ	ooh, a report button!	07:33
* FIQ reports the marketing guy		07:33
FIQ	(or not)	07:33
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zgoldberg	Are there any known issues with setting up skype video calls? I initiate a video call and can see myself but they cant see me and I can't see the other person.	08:16
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CreamyG	uhh try muting for a moment to see if it catches up	08:23
CreamyG	also it's really dark so go stand in front of a light	08:23
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quanttrom	zgoldberg: I've experienced the same thing..but I've only tried the video calls like twice..	08:38
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quanttrom	what do you/ppl use for navigation/GPS !? it is really annoying how the search does not work without Internet connection	08:39
frals	zgoldberg: i had that when behind a very restrictive nat.. worked when the other person called me and i activated the camera :P	08:40
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merlin1991	quanttrom, mine doesn't even get the current position without internet, I wonder if at least that is possible	08:44
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quanttrom	merlin1991:	08:46
quanttrom	merlin1991: yeah it is. I disabled the option where it uses the tower location and I can get a lock	08:47
merlin1991	I disabled it too, but I'm still waiting for a lock	08:47
quanttrom	merlin1991: you should not that if it doesn't get a long in X seconds it stops. Close the ovi maps app and try agian. Some people suggested using this other app that uses the gps but does not time out	08:48
quanttrom	merlin1991: are you inside a building? concrete building?	08:48
merlin1991	atm I'm inside a brick building, but I tried it outside some time ago too, and it didn't work either	08:48
quanttrom	concrete isn't the best...try placing it by the window..	08:49
quanttrom	sometimes gps can take > 1 min to lock...but that's rare	08:49
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quanttrom	btw....the N900 has the best GPS receiver I've seen so far..	08:50
Macer	LOL	08:50
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slonopotamus	quanttrom: and you saw only n810 gps before? :)	08:51
quanttrom	nah I own a real GPS one of the Magellan Maestro series	08:53
quanttrom	it doens't really compare but for a cell, the N900 has been good	08:53
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Macer	i honestly thought my old G1 had an ok gps	08:54
Macer	and the ovi maps is horrible	08:54
quanttrom	+1 on the ovi maps	08:55
quanttrom	what is up with not being able to search	08:55
merlin1991	it searches on the nokia server afaik	08:55
quanttrom	I guess that's the only good explanation, but really come on Nokia...really..	08:56
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CreamyG	heh you guys are lucky not to have a shitty provider that blocks agps	08:59
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CreamyG	then you'd see how bad the n900 gps can be	08:59
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Macer	LOL	08:59
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quanttrom	:P	08:59
quanttrom	why would they do that...?	08:59
CreamyG	save $1?	09:00
Macer	trying to get verizon and order a droid 2 and my n900 is telling me bad gateway	09:00
CreamyG	i dunno	09:00
Macer	awesome	09:00
CreamyG	ask WIND, they have a great community forum where you can ask them all that stuff	09:00
Macer	is that some sort of tmob cock block?	09:00
CreamyG	of course they wont' answer... at least not properly	09:00
CreamyG	no it's canada's newest provider	09:00
CreamyG	WIND	09:00
CreamyG	only provider with 3.5G on the n900 :(	09:01
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tank-man	how do they block agps?	09:05
CreamyG	how? they advertise "unlimited internet" but it's got blocked ports.	09:05
CreamyG	agps is one of the ones that they don't allow	09:05
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tank-man	i see	09:06
CreamyG	god only knows why...	09:06
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quanttrom	hey I've got WIND TOO :)	09:09
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quanttrom	i really can't complain tho..	09:09
quanttrom	i got too good of a deal	09:10
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doc\|home	wind++	09:10
doc\|home	CreamyG: erm, how would they block agps?	09:10
CreamyG	it's costing me more than rogers	09:10
doc\|home	and more to the point, why?	09:10
doc\|home	CreamyG: how is that possible?	09:11
doc\|home	if it is then you picked the wrong plans	09:11
CreamyG	wtf u mean how, its a port on nokia/google's agps server, 5645 or something	09:11
CreamyG	they dont' allow any traffic on that port.	09:11
CreamyG	who knows why	09:11
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CreamyG	probably think their towers are not compatible for some reason	09:11
doc\|home	if that's the case, have you asked them to open it?	09:11
CreamyG	maybe they aren't, but if they keep blocking, they never will be	09:11
doc\|home	I've had no problem using gps in vancouver	09:11
CreamyG	why would I, there's plenty of other people that can call and wait on hold to explain what a port is to some stupid CSR	09:12
kerio	CreamyG: use some kind of tunneling!	09:12
kerio	:D	09:12
CreamyG	lol i'm not running a damn proxy, plus the n900 will never be compatible with that	09:12
kerio	do they allow ssh?	09:12
doc\|home	CreamyG: so, you're complaining here instead about a problem you're not even sure is there? very productive.	09:12
kerio	the n900 is indeed compatible with that, duh	09:12
kerio	ssh -D	09:12
CreamyG	yeah but u can't pipe every app on the phone through a proxy	09:13
kerio	yes you can	09:13
kerio	it's a socks proxy	09:13
doc\|home	heh	09:13
CreamyG	really? hmmm	09:13
doc\|home	and again, if you're paying more than rogers you're picking the wrong plans	09:13
kerio	hell, you could even use dns tunneling with the n900	09:13
CreamyG	dude i had a retention plan, 6gb + 250 min $60	09:13
kerio	see, that's what you get by having a linux box in your pocket :)	09:13
CreamyG	now with wind its like $80	09:13
kerio	retention plan... 60$?	09:13
kerio	WTF	09:13
CreamyG	hmm i'll have to ask how to set that up some time	09:14
CreamyG	chasing conky bugs now	09:14
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rmrfchik	hi there	09:15
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kerio	dns tunneling is an epic idea	09:16
mece	huh?	09:16
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kerio	mece: you know how dns lets you set another dns server for a subzone	09:18
mece	uhu	09:18
kerio	what stops you from hiding tcp inside dns requests?	09:18
mece	interesting... well I guess the dns would stop you?	09:19
kerio	that are escalated up to your own "dns" server	09:19
kerio	huh?	09:19
mece	ah oh	09:19
mece	if you have it yourself.	09:19
kerio	well of course	09:19
kerio	you need to have a domain and a box on the 'net	09:19
kerio	it's just little more than you need for a ssh tunnel, a ddns and a box on the 'net	09:19
merlin1991	and then you channel your data trough unique dns requests :)	09:20
kerio	yup	09:20
kerio	either TXT requests, which can be easily blocked, or through AAAA requests	09:20
mece	so what are you waiting for? Implement and demonstrate!	09:20
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merlin1991	why implement, afaik there are ready to use packages out there	09:20
kerio	exactly	09:21
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merlin1991	I have no idea why I'm doing this, but I installed make-doc and I'm reading trough it now :P	09:23
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merlin1991	s/tro/thro/	09:23
infobot	merlin1991 meant: I have no idea why I'm doing this, but I installed make-doc and I'm reading through it now :P	09:23
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DHR	I just bought a used n810. It does not seem to power down. I press and hold the power key and it seems to go down and then reboot. Is that normal? Does not match my n800's behaviour.	09:34
X-Fade	DHR: Is your charger connected?	09:37
DHR	not when I try this. The power jack is a little wonky so I don't like holding the n810 while power is connected (would jiggle and no longer charge).	09:38
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DHR	since I don't know the state of the software (what the previous owner did), is there a good way to completely reset the whole system? Would reflashing with the latest OS do that?	09:40
crashanddie	Hey all	09:40
merlin1991	hey crashanddie	09:40
crashanddie	howzit going?	09:41
merlin1991	off topic?	09:41
DHR	depends on what "it" is?	09:41
merlin1991	but that's more the answer to wherzit going	09:41
crashanddie	meh, off topic is fine	09:42
crashanddie	as long as it's not too political	09:42
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merlin1991	crashanddie, going well, I moved on to the documentation in make-doc :D	09:45
jpinx-eeepc	"Device is using more power than it is receiving" wtf?	09:45
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X-Fade	jpinx-eeepc: That happens when your usb port is not providing enough power.	09:46
X-Fade	jpinx-eeepc: Less than the N900 is using at that moment at least	09:46
jpinx-eeepc	:/	09:47
X-Fade	jpinx-eeepc: What does your usb port say it can deliver?	09:47
jpinx-eeepc	dunno where to find that out	09:48
jpinx-eeepc	probably the standard 500Ma	09:49
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Jaffa	Ev'ning	09:51
Jaffa	Err, morning.	09:51
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quanttrom	jpinx-eeepc: isnt the standart 500mA available without any negotiations ? i think its more	09:53
merlin1991	morning Jaffa	09:54
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jpinx-eeepc	quanttrom: charging from my eeeepc usb port while data transferring	09:54
jpinx-eeepc	not sure if doing heavy data transfers reduces the charging capabilty	09:55
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merlin1991	jpinx-eeepc, are you still using your ssh madness?	09:57
jpinx-eeepc	yep	09:57
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jpinx-eeepc	I need to use sshfs, sooo	09:57
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dr34m	any idea where i can get this stick for the n900? mine broke	10:19
dr34m	some online shop eg.	10:19
pronto	cookies!	10:19
joga	n900 stylus in google might be the first step	10:19
dr34m	ah stylus	10:19
ieatlint	i want cookies	10:19
dr34m	i was googling for stick :p	10:19
joga	:)	10:20
dr34m	perfect thx	10:20
jacekowski	dr34m: i was looking for n900 stylus couple months ago	10:20
jacekowski	and it worked out that it's simpler to just find my stylus	10:20
jacekowski	rather than buy new one	10:20
dr34m	lol	10:20
dr34m	i found already	10:20
dr34m	3 pieces 9 euro	10:20
dr34m	you can never have enough stylusses ? whats the plural of stylus? :)	10:21
ieatlint	that's incredibly expensive for a small piece of plastic if you think about it :P	10:21
jacekowski	try to find original one	10:21
ieatlint	styli	10:21
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dr34m	:)	10:21
ieatlint	english is awesome	10:21
jacekowski	chinese replacement is easy to find	10:21
dr34m	not my best i guess	10:21
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jpinx-eeepc	ieatlint: stylii	10:25
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dr34m	hm did you ever try those screen protectors? that you stick on the display ?	10:26
ieatlint	uh, no, styli	10:26
ieatlint	google agrees with me	10:26
ieatlint	http://www.google.com/search?q=define:stylii has no definitions	10:26
dr34m	wonder if the stylus works nicely with such thing	10:26
ieatlint	styli there has numerous	10:26
Shadikka	http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stylus?jss=0	10:27
ieatlint	dr34m: i have one of the invisible shields on my n900.. works well	10:27
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Shadikka	either goes.	10:27
kerio	A stylus (plural: styli or styluses)	10:27
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dr34m	jesus i wish i had never asked	10:27
ieatlint	Shadikka: that page doesn't say stylii is valid	10:27
ieatlint	pedantic geeks? no way... :P	10:27
Shadikka	–noun,plural-li	10:27
Shadikka	whitespace pasting works well, apparently	10:28
Shadikka	—n , pl -li, -luses	10:28
ieatlint	yes, plural is styli, not lii	10:28
kerio	would you guys mind a baconbot?	10:28
ieatlint	only if it offers real bacon	10:28
Shadikka	sorry, I meant that both styluses and stylii are valid.	10:28
Shadikka	I'm being ambiguous, my bad.	10:28
kerio	ieatlint: i'm working on that for v2.0	10:28
ieatlint	i'm disturbed that the local store here now sells shelf safe bacon	10:29
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ieatlint	dr34m: nah, that's a knockoff with convincing graphics	10:30
ieatlint	http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/nokia-n900-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php	10:30
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kerio	behold!	10:30
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ieatlint	11.99EUR for the knockoff, $14.99USD for the name brand...	10:31
* ieatlint shrugs		10:31
ieatlint	BaconBacon: give me bacon	10:31
BaconBacon	BACON!	10:31
dr34m	ok ty	10:32
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rmrfchik	guys, can you install game from here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=809723&postcount=32	10:34
rmrfchik	user claims it can't be installed	10:34
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ieatlint	http://www.schutzfolien-shop.com/handys/nokia/invisibleshield-nokia-n900-screen/a-6006664/ might be more helpful.. their official online store in germany, 12.90EUR	10:35
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ieatlint	rmrfchik: just as a note, it's slightly suspicious to come into an irc channel and ask people to install a random app from an untrusted source :P	10:36
dr34m	cost 16,95 here in .nl :p	10:36
rmrfchik	ieatlint: you can trust me! all I want is to stole all your money.	10:37
rmrfchik	ieatlint: as you don't have a lot of money, you lost a little	10:37
ieatlint	you're wasting your time then :P	10:37
ieatlint	haha, exactly	10:37
rmrfchik	;)	10:37
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rmrfchik	hrw: ping	10:39
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adalal	hi.. quick question, on then n900 there is a ussd widget. I know the latest firmware can do various USSD codes, but i want a desktop widget that checks the value at intervals.. i remember using that widget, but the only problem was that the way ussd codes were handled on the phone application changed as well. Is there a way to prevent that?	10:40
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rmrfchik	adalal: afaik ussd-widget comes with qussd which handles answers	10:42
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rmrfchik	adalal: I do use ussd-widget with pr1.2	10:42
hrw	hi	10:43
hrw	rmrfchik: pong	10:43
rmrfchik	hrw: can u check package from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=809723&postcount=32	10:43
rmrfchik	hrw: i can install it, user can't	10:43
hrw	I installed second one fine	10:43
rmrfchik	that's good	10:44
adalal	rmrfchik: does it change the way the phone application handles the ussd?	10:45
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rmrfchik	adalal: mmm, seems like. if u do ussd query from phone, it is handled by qussd (whatever it is)	10:48
rmrfchik	it shows answer among with keypad	10:49
adalal	hmm	10:49
adalal	i'll try it again	10:49
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jpinx-eeepc	am I right in thinking that maemo has gone all windows-ish - it can't open a simple text file when it doesn't have a .txt suffix?	10:51
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Shadikka	vim file; problem solved.	10:52
jpinx-eeepc	sheeeesh	10:52
Shadikka	j/k. :) But in all seriousness, that would be a bit weird.	10:52
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jpinx-eeepc	what crap:/	10:52
adalal	rmrfchik: right, i want to stop qussd from triggering when i try a ussd code on the phone menu!	10:53
jpinx-eeepc	I am trying to make this a usable device while siting on the bus or whatever. I know I can vim anyfile	10:53
adalal	rmrfchik: because a few of the responses here are so long, that they dont fit in the one line qussd writes it on	10:53
rmrfchik	adalal: ah, ic.	10:55
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rmrfchik	adalal: ask developer ;)	10:57
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adalal	rmrfchik: yea.. will do	10:58
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Psi	anyone know how i would go about getting the mameo widgets into lazarus? currently i only seem to have the default ones	11:08
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Viliny_on_N900	heya!	11:09
Viliny_on_N900	quick question: any navigation on the n900 yet?	11:09
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rmrfchik	Viliny_on_N900: ovi?	11:10
Viliny_on_N900	does that do turn by turn? voice?	11:10
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Viliny_on_N900	could kinda need that today and googling for a bit didn't help too much	11:11
rmrfchik	turn by turn yes, voice no	11:12
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Viliny_on_N900	ok well thats neat... how? maps is installed but lacks the tbt	11:13
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Viliny_on_N900	trying to browse ovi store atm	11:13
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rmrfchik	Viliny_on_N900: when you have route, there is some icon which show you 1. turn there, 2. turn here, 3. follow, 4. profit	11:14
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jacekowski	ovi fail you mean?	11:14
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Viliny_on_N900	oh ffs, thats not navigation thats printing out instructions :(	11:14
scp1	lol	11:15
Viliny_on_N900	i could take the same dump from google maps	11:15
jacekowski	you could	11:15
jacekowski	that's why i use tomtom	11:15
jacekowski	always reliable	11:15
Viliny_on_N900	so no proper navigation then?	11:15
jacekowski	no	11:15
jacekowski	nothing free	11:15
Viliny_on_N900	a wee bit weird, whats the costing options?	11:15
jacekowski	and sygic cost as much as cheapest tomtom	11:16
jacekowski	and tomtom is a dedicated device that comes with car mount and everything you need in a car	11:16
jacekowski	and much better maps	11:16
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mece	umm.. how do I remove a package from my installation queue or whatever it's called with dpkg?	11:16
rmrfchik	dpkg --remove whatever	11:17
* rmrfchik uses HW navigator. bye, bye ovi ;)		11:18
Viliny_on_N900	sygic the only option? damn this is bad from nokia	11:18
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rmrfchik	Viliny_on_N900: welcome to the club	11:18
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Viliny_on_N900	thank you, sign me up for 1x jacket	11:18
ruskie	hmm didn't someone package navit for it yet?	11:19
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ruskie	iirc that has turn-by-turn	11:19
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soltys	ruskie: there is navit but old version	11:19
ruskie	ahh	11:20
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ruskie	sad but true... let's use a version of debian as base that will die a few months after release :(	11:20
mece	ah got it.	11:21
soltys	ruskie: you can always try to build curent svn version of navit	11:21
mece	"dpkg --clear-selections" FYI	11:21
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ruskie	soltys, well I don't have any need for any such thing	11:21
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soltys	;)	11:21
ruskie	I think the gps on my n900 was active some 3 or 4 times	11:21
ruskie	I actually prefer just a map and go by that	11:21
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soltys	ruskie: I use gps while cycling but as for now I used my freerunner with tangoGPS just for finding where were I	11:22
ruskie	the only use for a gps I see myself is the "I'm here" point... no extra software to tell me where to go and so	11:22
ruskie	and generally a map is a nice idea since you generally need to look around yourself... and might even see some nice landscape around	11:23
soltys	I think the same ;)	11:24
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koala_man	I like having a That's There point	11:28
merlin1991	but sometimes one needs the go there not there you stupid twat option	11:29
koala_man	that option keeps trying to kill me	11:30
koala_man	no I don't want to cross a busy highway bridge without sidewalks on foot	11:30
kerio	GPSes are awesome	11:31
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merlin1991	indeed	11:36
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Viliny_on_N900	oooh, 70 euros for sygic maps	11:42
rmrfchik	buy navigator ;)	11:42
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inkbottle	Hi, I'm trying to install "screen" from "maemo/tools"; but apt-get install screen yields: "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! screen Install these packages without verification [y/N]?" No (of course, I won't install packages signature can't be verified)	11:48
inkbottle	How this can be fixed?	11:48
ilius	inkbottle: don't attend	11:49
inkbottle	?	11:49
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DocScrutinizer	blarrrgh	11:56
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ilius	inkbottle: that's not an error, and not a problem	11:58
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inkbottle	ilius: It is a problem: packages must be signed; you don't put untrusted stuffs on your computer	12:01
ilius	inkbottle: it must be verified before putting in official repo, then you trust them when you use that repo	12:02
DocScrutinizer	inkbottle: then don't do it	12:02
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DocScrutinizer	problem fixed	12:03
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DocScrutinizer	tools repo not really meant to install to N900, and so probably never seen a proper signature key	12:05
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DocScrutinizer	if you don't trust in unsigned packages, then I suggest you build the binaries in your own trusted development environment	12:06
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DocScrutinizer	or, alternatively, install in a chroot and analyze for rogue code using strace and gdb - nah wait those are also from tools repo :-P	12:10
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inkbottle	DocScrutinizer: Sure I don't trust unsigned packages. Bad practice.	12:23
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inkbottle	ilius: and putting the word "official"... well	12:24
SpeedEvil	Stuff at nokia repos are probably safe.	12:24
inkbottle	see you later then	12:24
inkbottle	no	12:24
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lcuk2	andre__, ping	12:25
andre__	lcuk2, pong	12:25
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: it's no more or less safe with a signature. Only thing a sig helps are MITM attacks	12:26
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SpeedEvil	yes	12:26
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DocScrutinizer	anyway seems he left	12:27
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DocScrutinizer	and if he thought about it he'd realize there's simply no public key shipping with N900 that 'd match the tools repo, even when packages there were signed	12:32
SpeedEvil	yeah	12:32
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DocScrutinizer	well, back to my C4 package for DHL... >:-(	12:34
merlin1991	lol DocScrutinizer	12:34
hrw	is there any doc about doing NMU in maemo extras?	12:35
DocScrutinizer	NMU?	12:36
hrw	soltys: use eCoach for cycling	12:36
hrw	DocScrutinizer: NonMaintainerUpload	12:36
DocScrutinizer	ooh, guess you're sooooo out of luck	12:36
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DocScrutinizer	as not even maintainers manage to upload smallest fixes to extras directly	12:37
hrw	DocScrutinizer: by extras I mean extras/testing/devel/whatever/maemo/will/add	12:37
DocScrutinizer	ahh	12:38
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soltys	hrw: eCoach ?	12:38
hrw	DocScrutinizer: I have changed apmefo version a lot	12:38
hrw	soltys: yes	12:38
soltys	hrw: never heard of it ;)	12:38
DocScrutinizer	hrw: probably fork and create your own project	12:38
hrw	soltys: so install and try	12:38
soltys	hrw: I'm not at home atm ;)	12:39
hrw	DocScrutinizer: thats other option	12:39
hrw	soltys: so remember to try	12:39
MNZ	hrw, try to submit a patch to the author?	12:39
DocScrutinizer	that's actually the better option, if you really 'chaged a lot' in GUI	12:39
hrw	MNZ: so far author does not answered to my request for full sources	12:39
hrw	MNZ: so far I recreated UI from scratch	12:39
jacekowski	hrw: apt-get source pkgname	12:39
hrw	jacekowski: it is not full source	12:40
jacekowski	it has to	12:40
hrw	jacekowski: apmefo source package contains files generated from *.ui files and they are missing	12:40
DocScrutinizer	hrw: MNZ: probably she's not interested in your GUI changes	12:40
jacekowski	otherwise it wouldn't build	12:40
jacekowski	hmmm	12:41
hrw	jacekowski: it is python - is just needs few copy operations	12:41
DocScrutinizer	MNZ: hrw: so might an arbitrary number of users -> fork, create own project	12:41
hrw	but for fixing UI I needed *.ui files	12:41
jacekowski	forks are evil	12:41
* hrw agree with jacekowski		12:41
DocScrutinizer	overriding original author on own project also is evil	12:42
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hrw	thats why so far I do not made any releases	12:42
DocScrutinizer	so if she doesn't answer - your only chance and fair enough action is to fork, call it apmefo-II and maintain the new project by your own	12:43
jacekowski	send her a patch	12:44
hrw	sure	12:44
hrw	will strt from patches	12:44
jacekowski	who is she anyways?	12:44
jacekowski	and what is apmefo doing?	12:44
DocScrutinizer	apmefo is the better catorise	12:45
hrw	jacekowski: it is tool to reorgranize list of applications into folders	12:45
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jacekowski	like catorise?	12:45
hrw	DocScrutinizer: its not better. it is other	12:45
DocScrutinizer	use defined	12:45
soltys	Is there a chance for navit package upgrade in feed? If the answer is no, how can I build it myself without sdk (I don't have debian and enough space for VM images)	12:45
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jacekowski	you can'	12:46
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jacekowski	can't	12:46
DocScrutinizer	while catorise it pizza quattro stagnioni, apmefo is pizza build to order	12:47
Khertan_Home	Morning	12:47
soltys	it sux	12:47
jacekowski	but you can speak to me nicely and i can give you access to my buildserver	12:47
DocScrutinizer	:-P	12:48
jacekowski	just not now	12:48
DocScrutinizer	:-P :oD	12:48
soltys	jacekowski: it would be great ;)	12:48
jacekowski	in about an hour	12:48
soltys	ok, np	12:48
jacekowski	now i'm on 2g connection	12:49
jacekowski	and ad ssh is lagging to much to be useful	12:49
Duckboot	jacekowski: ssh -C ?	12:50
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jacekowski	nah	12:52
jacekowski	it's 5s lag that is a problem	12:52
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DocScrutinizer	5s is actually not bad :-D (for 2G)	12:52
jacekowski	and i can't hold phone properly because signal drops	12:53
DocScrutinizer	yeah a PITA	12:53
DocScrutinizer	RF engineers never tested the most common usecase for N900	12:54
DocScrutinizer	it's (once again) optimized for phone usage	12:54
DocScrutinizer	so nobody gonna tell me "it's no phone"	12:55
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jacekowski	and they have 30 minutes delay here	12:56
DocScrutinizer	err who's "they"? the men in the black helis?	12:57
jacekowski	hospital	12:58
DocScrutinizer	eeew	12:58
jacekowski	i had appointment for 10:40	12:58
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jacekowski	i hope battery will last long enough	13:00
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kerio	yeah, bad coverage really drains your battery	13:04
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jacktheripper	how could I get alpha blending into a game I'm making for maemo if the screen is 16bit ?	13:09
kerio	YUV	13:09
jacktheripper	there's still no YUV support in photoshop, and GIMP doesn't have those layer blending options I'm using in my textures :/	13:11
lcuk2	like the other day, yuv is a video mode not the picture format	13:12
lcuk2	and you would have to use liqbase or write your own mechanism to write to that mode	13:12
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DocScrutinizer51	liqbase \o/	13:14
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DocScrutinizer51	lo lcuk2 - where's lcuk?	13:15
DocScrutinizer51	no bacon?	13:16
BaconBacon	BACON!	13:16
kerio	thanks BaconBacon	13:16
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rmrfchik	jacktheripper: how you draw textures? x11/sdl/whatever?	13:17
jacktheripper	rmrfchik: pygame, so probably SDL	13:17
rmrfchik	i would start to check sdl/opengl to use alpha. n900 supports opengl (subset)	13:18
merlin1991	what subset does the n900 support again? es2?	13:18
rmrfchik	google says ES 2.0	13:19
jacktheripper	I don't think an alpha channel would work at 16bits. Btw, it's 2D sprites, might be different.	13:20
DocScrutinizer51	sounds familiar	13:21
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merlin1991	according to wiki.maemo.org we have hw accelerated opengl es 1.1 and 2.0	13:25
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pupnik	you can impliment 1-bit alpha nicely in 16 bits, leaving 5/5/5 for rgb	13:30
lcuk	pupnik, its more the banding (which isnt so bad)	13:30
pupnik	yeah, i really prefer no-banding	13:31
pupnik	but if the speed is too low, sometimes 16-bit is a good compromise	13:31
lcuk	indeed	13:33
lcuk	i used to run my amiga a1200 in greyscale	13:33
pupnik	:)	13:34
lcuk	i prefered smoothness	13:34
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pupnik	kind of boggles my mind how much better yuv looks with the same amt of data	13:34
lcuk	its less data	13:34
pupnik	12 bits?	13:34
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lcuk	full resolution greyscale, half resolution colour wash	13:34
jacktheripper	TGA alpha channels work in 16bits!	13:35
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pupnik_	TGA?	13:35
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jacktheripper	TARGA	13:36
jacktheripper	the file format	13:36
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pupnik_	you old man	13:36
jacktheripper	old ? why ? it's used in most games, so I thought I might try it, and it worked.	13:37
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pupnik_	nice	13:38
pupnik_	"The TGA file format was originally defined and specified by AT&T EPICenter with feedback from Island Graphics Inc in 1984"	13:38
jacktheripper	lol, it's still used until today :P	13:38
pupnik_	cool	13:39
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lcuk	pupnik_, the format is as valid today as it was then	13:46
lcuk	I believe the binary 1 was invented in 1937	13:46
lcuk	before then, people had to make do with just 0's	13:46
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[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	morning - quick questio if anyone knows the answer. is there any way to view the full maemo file system from within easydebian ?	13:49
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lcuk	[DarkGUNMAN-Ext], its a chroot, it changes the root system	13:49
lcuk	afaik, you would have to potentially try to remount it (and maybe only as readonly) but don't quote me on that	13:49
lcuk	systems within systems within systems make my head explode	13:49
[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	lol	13:50
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[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	thanks lcuk. how would I remount maemo within ed's chroot? it is to make fiel management easier using pcmanfm	13:51
lcuk	[DarkGUNMAN-Ext], i really don't know	13:52
lcuk	others may chime in	13:52
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lcuk	but my head already exploded	13:52
[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	np. thanks for trying at least :) where's qole when you need him!	13:53
lcuk	probably sleeping	13:53
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DocScrutinizer51	dark: you need to bindmount / of outer sistem to MyHostRoot/ inside the changeroot	14:12
DocScrutinizer51	quite obviously rhis needs to be done from outside the chroot	14:12
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MohammadAG51	does maemo 4 support pyqt?	14:20
DocScrutinizer	does maemo5 support pyqt? :-P	14:23
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alteron	Hi. I do not get the save attachment option in the menu even tho the mail does contain an attachmen (is marked with clip too). How do I save it then?	14:46
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pupnik_	sounds like a bug alteron	14:47
alteron	yes. i guess im the only one who cant do it.	14:48
pupnik_	does it happen with all email attachments?	14:49
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alteron	nno	14:49
zap	How I'm expected to receive karma on a package to push it from testing into extras? Do I have to glue ad banners all over the city?	14:50
lcuk	zap	14:50
lcuk	yes actually	14:50
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pupnik_	by people voting for the package	14:50
lcuk	talk about it	14:50
lcuk	push people towards it	14:50
lcuk	get it tested	14:50
DocScrutinizer	lol	14:50
lcuk	have pride in your package	14:51
lcuk	:)	14:51
lcuk	and perhaps start a tshirt campaign	14:51
lcuk	"i tested zap's package, did you?"	14:51
lcuk	but until people know what it is, how should they have motivation to test it	14:51
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alterego	Usually an [ANNOUCEMENT] thread on tmo is a good start.	14:52
alterego	Then just beg friends and family to test it :)	14:52
lcuk	not beg	14:52
alteron	damn	14:52
alterego	I beg	14:52
lcuk	:)	14:52
lcuk	speaking of all this	14:54
lcuk	I uploaded a new version of liqflow to -testing	14:54
lcuk	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/liqflow/0.1.7/	14:54
lcuk	it doesnt change anything visually, but it interacts with vlads live wallpapers better	14:54
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lcuk	and uses the new library which is all sorted	14:54
lcuk	so if people can test :P	14:54
alteron	lcuk spam	14:55
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ville	Howdy, right now I am looking into getting a new phone and it seems the only maemo/meego out is n900? Also what does the future of the device look like as far as OS updates to maemo and even possibly upgrading it to run meego?	14:56
alterego	Think there'd be much use for creating multiple logs simultaneously in a GPS app?	14:56
alterego	Meh, I don't care, I'll add it later if I get bored :)	14:58
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merlin1991	lcuk are you using some really really weird system to version your package, or did the changes section go nuts? http://maemo.org/packages/view/liqflow/	15:00
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lcuk	merlin1991, LOL!	15:01
lcuk	http://github.com/lcuk/liqbase-playground/blob/master/sub_published/liqflow/debian/changelog	15:01
lcuk	theres the changelog	15:01
lcuk	I think the website went nuts	15:01
lcuk	X-Fade,	15:01
lcuk	any comment	15:02
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kaie	is "witter" working reliably for you? isn't for me. (n900).	15:02
merlin1991	I'm using the stable verision and it is working reliably for me, what exactly is going wrong for you?	15:02
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lcuk	merlin1991, nothing wrong	15:03
lcuk	it just needs all the -testing ticks done	15:03
lcuk	and for livewp it did not pause	15:04
lcuk	when you changed desktops - there is a livewp api that should be followed	15:04
lcuk	which I slotted in	15:04
merlin1991	lcuk I talked to kaie there ;)	15:04
kaie	merlin1991, I'm using the version that is offered from within app manager. I start it, it starts it's home screen (the new interface, not showing tweets, but showing this bubble button). It seems to load from the net (rotating thing in top bar). If I click the bubble, n900 says "witter not responding, close it?"	15:04
lcuk	doh!	15:04
merlin1991	btw push to your git repo, the changelog on git only goes to 0.16	15:04
merlin1991	kaie did you enable extras-testing or extras-devel?	15:06
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kaie	merlin1991, yes I have extras-devel	15:06
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merlin1991	there you go, dwould the developer from witter uploads every new stop to devel, as it's meant to be a developing repo, you can't trust the versions from there	15:07
merlin1991	disable devel	15:07
merlin1991	uninstall witter	15:07
merlin1991	reinstall	15:07
merlin1991	and don't update as long as you have devel enabled again	15:07
kaie	ok I 'll try thans	15:07
* kaie usually had good experience with apps from -devel, didn't know that witter is available as non-devel		15:08
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merlin1991	witter goes up to extras	15:08
X-Fade	lcuk: You changed multiple version in within a minute. There is too little resolution to sort on timestamp.	15:08
lcuk	!	15:08
lcuk	:$	15:08
merlin1991	and is one of the few apps that uses the devel -> testing -> extras system the real way :)	15:08
lcuk	ok	15:08
lcuk	X-Fade, i thought it would sort in the order it sorts on normally?	15:09
lcuk	ie version	15:09
merlin1991	devel for possibly unstable new stuff, testing for assumingly stable stuff, and extras for truly stable stuff	15:09
kaie	makes sense, thanks	15:09
X-Fade	lcuk: You can't sort on version.	15:09
X-Fade	lcuk: No database will sort on debian versioning ;)	15:09
lcuk	shame, ok understood	15:09
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lcuk	so it doesnt just read the latest changelog then	15:10
lcuk	and those records are from versions pushed	15:10
X-Fade	lcuk: So the timestamp sort usually does the trick.	15:10
X-Fade	lcuk: Unless you are really going release crazy.	15:10
lcuk	"<X-Fade> lcuk: You changed multiple version in within a minute" << this makes me sound like frals or noobmonk3y	15:10
merlin1991	:)	15:10
X-Fade	lcuk: And that is usually a sign that you didn't think things through enough :)	15:10
lcuk	X-Fade, frustrated at simple packaging mehs!	15:11
lcuk	;)	15:11
pekuja	is it possible to set firefox as the default browser somehow?	15:11
merlin1991	but why is version 0.1.2 on top?	15:11
merlin1991	that timestamp is defenitely older :)	15:11
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X-Fade	merlin1991: How is 11 lower than 7 ?	15:11
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merlin1991	hm wait nope	15:11
merlin1991	wtf	15:11
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X-Fade	merlin1991: That is another case of developer not using dch, but typing the changelog manually ;)	15:12
merlin1991	I guess when I finally start packaging I should use dch then :)	15:12
lcuk	X-Fade, i got out of that habit ages ago when me and dch had different ideas about what time it was	15:13
X-Fade	Or make sure that you don't count backwards or think you are in the future :)	15:13
lcuk	but I will resume it	15:13
kaie	pekuja, install browser-switchboard	15:14
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lcuk	X-Fade, so the displayed changes section is actually multiple records taken from the head when I uploaded it the first time	15:14
lcuk	because I always thought it would scan the changelog as discovered in the package I am looking at	15:15
pekuja	kale: thanks :-)	15:16
X-Fade	lcuk: It stores each entry as a separate entry in the db.	15:16
X-Fade	lcuk: So each time it looks for new entries.	15:16
zap	Anybody wants to test bash3 for fremantle? :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/bash3/3.2-0maemo9/	15:16
lcuk	X-Fade, understood, shall be more careful with it \o	15:17
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kaie	stable witter works for me, thx. I was totally falsely assuming that witter was broken because of missing oath support. but stable version supports oauth and works fine...	15:20
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merlin1991	~tmo	15:23
infobot	i heard tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or trolls, morons, oxes	15:24
merlin1991	ah yeah, trolls, morons, oxes, that was it :)	15:24
Duckboot	More like Trolls, Morons and Oxymorons	15:24
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, can you please change that to a better description	15:26
lcuk	come on	15:26
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: sorry?	15:26
lcuk	you normally setup the ~ things dont you?	15:27
DocScrutinizer51	errr wut?	15:27
DocScrutinizer51	what's youre problem, Sire?	15:27
X-Fade	lcuk: anyone can do that?	15:28
lcuk	IDK, can they?	15:28
DocScrutinizer51	usually yes	15:28
lcuk	i always see DocScrutinizer51 playing with them	15:28
lcuk	the one for tmo is an insult	15:28
DocScrutinizer51	It seems absolutyely correct to me	15:29
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lcuk	these things are what you make them of course	15:29
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DocScrutinizer51	~factinfo tmo	15:29
infobot	tmo -- created by Mece <~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi> at Mon Jun 14 16:09:21 2010 (85 days); last modified at Tue Jun 15 14:18:21 2010 by DocScrutinizer2!~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 7 times, last by merlin1991, 5m 48s ago.	15:29
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lcuk	ahh!	15:29
* lcuk was right :P		15:30
merlin1991	argh highlight for nothing	15:30
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RST38h	moo punks	15:30
MohammadAG51	infobot, forget tmo	15:31
infobot	MohammadAG51: i forgot tmo	15:31
MohammadAG51	infobot, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org	15:31
infobot	okay, MohammadAG51	15:31
MohammadAG51	infobot, tmo	15:31
infobot	methinks tmo is http://talk.maemo.org	15:31
RST38h	infobot, forget everything, dance	15:32
infobot	i didn't have anything called 'everything, dance' to forget, RST38h	15:32
zap	RST38h: EHLO	15:32
DocScrutinizer51	~tmo is also too much off-topic	15:32
infobot	DocScrutinizer51: okay	15:32
RST38h	zap: hey	15:32
MohammadAG51	infobot, tmo	15:32
infobot	rumour has it, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic	15:32
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MohammadAG51	infobot, bmo	15:32
MohammadAG51	infobot, bmo is http://bugs.maemo.org	15:32
infobot	okay, MohammadAG51	15:32
[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	docscrutiniser51 - sorry just spotted your reply. do you have a step by step guide?	15:33
DocScrutinizer51	sorry nope, as I got no ED installed	15:33
[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	ah ok.	15:34
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DocScrutinizer	[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]: something along the path: mkdir /easydeb/MyHostRoot; mount -bind / /easydeb/MyHostRoot; chroot /easydeb	15:35
merlin1991	waaah chroot crazyness	15:36
DocScrutinizer	(anybody finding syntax errors may keep them free of charge	15:36
DocScrutinizer	)	15:36
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zap	I found 2, thanks	15:37
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lcuk	thanks DocScrutinizer :) a little better, but many people in here also frequent tmo	15:38
[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	DocScrutiniser would this be in maemo console or the easydeb console?	15:39
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: no, a lot of tmo users dare to come here :-P	15:39
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DocScrutinizer	[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]: this obviously can not work from within easydebian	15:40
DocScrutinizer	needs to be done from host system level, prior to starting ED chroot	15:40
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lcuk	infobot, bacon	15:42
BaconBacon	BACON!	15:42
infobot	from memory, bacon is a filling substance which will make you even fatter than you already are... Take my advice, bacon is a food for the gods or for underweight models such as that McBeal chick...	15:42
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DocScrutinizer	[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]: the idea and main purpose of a chroot is to hide away large parts of the host system. So there's no way the chroot can extend the own rights	15:42
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crashanddie	fuck me Doc, you just blew my ears out	15:43
alterego	Heh	15:43
[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	i appreciate you trying to get your head around this	15:43
DocScrutinizer	kerio: autobots not welcome	15:44
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RST38h	YOU HAVE KILLED BACON! AAAAAaaa...	15:44
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, what about the evil decepticons?	15:46
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: ??	15:46
niko	.14	15:46
kerio	DocScrutinizer: it's one message every 5 minutes at most	15:46
kerio	:(	15:47
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DocScrutinizer	bots have to be announced and agreed upon with chan mod or owner (general IRC policy)	15:47
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, lrn2Transformers	15:47
lcuk	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobot	15:48
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: can my bot stay here?	15:48
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DocScrutinizer	I don't see the benefit. If there's a random number of users opting in favour of it anyway, I'm the last one to disagree	15:49
kerio	lcuk?	15:49
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lcuk	as much as i like bacon i agree with doc here :P	15:50
kerio	:(	15:50
lcuk	its good for amusement but gets old too quickly for normal conversation	15:50
Viliny_on_N900	oh im still here	15:50
crashanddie	"Hey, I promise, I'm really OK. The guy in my head will tell you the same."	15:51
merlin1991	:D	15:51
merlin1991	bye	15:51
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GAN900	Morning, day crew.	16:04
GAN900	I'm requesting a favor and asking everybody to vote here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=810296	16:04
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crashanddie	GAN900: done	16:07
nid0	ditto	16:09
DocScrutinizer51	lo GAN900	16:09
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Khertan_Home	Hi guys	16:10
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* Khertan_Home VS qstyleditemdelegate : 0-1		16:13
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asusa7uasus	hi	16:14
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asusa7uasus	root Enable RD Mode if you want to break your device	16:15
tank-man	:)	16:15
asusa7uasus	kto to znaet russian??? vvoju root v terminale a mne pishet Enable RD Mode if you want to break your device	16:15
crashanddie	asusa7uasus: only English	16:16
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crashanddie	asusa7uasus: but to answer your question, no, you don't need to enable RD mode. Just install the package called "gainroot"	16:16
crashanddie	asusa7uasus: after installing the gainroot package, you'll be able to get root by typing `root' or `sudo gainroot'	16:17
asusa7uasus	At the command root in the terminal wrote Enable RD Mode if you want to break your device	16:17
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asusa7uasus	i install package gainroot	16:17
rmrfchik	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7772 WONTFIX	16:19
povbot	Bug 7772: Black screen in sunlight for incoming/outgoing call and T&K unlock not working	16:19
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rmrfchik	damn	16:19
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rmrfchik	my case in #10778 (which is marked is duplicate of #7772) isn't related to sunlight	16:20
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jacekowski	i'm back	16:25
jacekowski	soltys:	16:25
soltys	jacekowski: ?	16:25
soltys	;)	16:25
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asusa7uasus	At the command root in the terminal wrote Enable RD Mode if you want to break your devic ??/	16:25
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jacekowski	soltys: well, i can give you that scratchbox account at mine	16:25
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dr34m	is there a working vlc for n900 out ?	16:27
soltys	jacekowski: that would be nice	16:27
[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	Docscrutiniser it worked a charm. First I started easydebian mounted to /.debian. Then mounted the hostroot from maemo console	16:28
jacekowski	so what do you propose as password and username	16:28
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DocScrutinizer	[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]: fine	16:29
soltys	jacekowski: look at msg	16:29
GAN900	crashanddie, rootsh.	16:29
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crashanddie	GAN900: eh?	16:29
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[DarkGUNMAN-Ext]	thank you for your help :)	16:30
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: the package is caled rootsh	16:31
crashanddie	ah	16:31
crashanddie	well, what do I know, eh?	16:31
crashanddie	You should've all learned to speak russian :P	16:31
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jacekowski	soltys: ok	16:38
jacekowski	soltys: done	16:38
jacekowski	that's fresh scratchbox installation without nokia binaries	16:38
jacekowski	In order to obtain Nokia-closed binaries, visit	16:38
jacekowski	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php to accept the End User	16:38
jacekowski	License Agreement. You will be given a token to access the Nokia	16:38
jacekowski	binaries repository with further instructions.	16:38
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soltys	jacekowski: ok, thanks but address/port of machine would be also helpfull ;)	16:40
jacekowski	jacekowski.org	16:41
jacekowski	port 22	16:41
soltys	ok, will check it when I get back home	16:41
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peb	Hi folks, how do you import .ics files into N900 cal? I'm getting errors with .ics files from evolution :-(	16:51
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* alterego contemplates implementing GPX logging.		16:58
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SpeedEvil	alterego: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilution_of_precision_%28GPS%29	17:05
SpeedEvil	I need to poke the gpxrecorder widget thingy as he's miscomputing it by an order of magnitude.	17:06
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alterego	SpeedEvil: why? I already know about DOP :P	17:07
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alterego	SpeedEvil: oh, this is GPX logging in my GPS app ..	17:10
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SpeedEvil	ah - k	17:15
SpeedEvil	what does this GPS app do?	17:15
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alterego	SpeedEvil: tells you your location and heading? :P	17:21
luke-jr	alterego: get anywhere with my GPS code? :P	17:21
alterego	luke-jr: I'd be interested in testing it on MeeGo, but I still had to implement my own NMEA serializer.	17:21
jcrawford	can i ask pymaemo questions here?	17:21
luke-jr	alterego: well, I'm hoping you can fix my NMEA serialization :P	17:22
alterego	Oh, what seems to be the problem?	17:22
SpeedEvil	alterego: Ah - I was idly wondering about a GPS related app.	17:22
luke-jr	gpsd doesn't show horiz/vert accuracy, and flickers the altitude on and off	17:22
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alterego	Hmm,	17:22
SpeedEvil	I want to press trhe headset buttom, take a pic, note its GPS position, take a voice note while the headset button remains pressed.	17:22
alterego	luke-jr: so you're injecting your output into gpsd?	17:23
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: and speech recog your note to a comment?	17:23
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: Ideally	17:23
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: But meh.	17:23
luke-jr	alterego: gps3.c creates a pty with NMEA, which gpsd can use	17:23
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alterego	luke-jr: right.	17:24
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alterego	Then what do you use as a client?	17:24
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alterego	These are the sentences I support: http://pastie.org/1145876	17:25
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alterego	It's the same subset that SiRF equipment is spec'd to use.	17:25
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luke-jr	alterego: cgps	17:27
SpeedEvil	http://openstreetview.org/?lat=56.206369805484&lon=-3.1311035154996&zoom=16 - what I want to use it for - photos	17:28
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alterego	luke-jr: what format do your h/v-dop numbers go out as?	17:29
Khertan_Home	hum ... how to take screenshot in portrait mode	17:29
Khertan_Home	no acces to the status menu	17:29
alterego	Khertan_Home: ssh? :)	17:29
Khertan_Home	and if i open the keyboard ... it s coming back to landscape	17:29
Khertan_Home	alterego, hum ... ok ... let s go with my python dbus scripting :)	17:29
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luke-jr	alterego: eh?	17:33
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MohammadAG	hmm, how do I read/write to gconf from PyQt	17:35
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alterego	MohammadAG: use the gconf module?	17:37
alterego	MohammadAG: nothing to do with PyQt ..	17:37
MohammadAG	alterego, importing it would be the easiest step :P	17:37
MohammadAG	I want the app detect a first run, if it's a first run display a mini tutorial	17:38
MohammadAG	the second part I guess can be done with some if/else-s	17:38
alterego	empty flag file is the most common	17:38
alterego	touch ~/.my_app_has_run	17:38
alterego	And check to see if it exists when you start up.	17:39
MohammadAG	how, other than using [ -f ] in bash	17:39
alterego	I thought you were using Python	17:39
MohammadAG	yes, by in bash I meant os.popen :P	17:39
alterego	os.path.isfile()	17:40
alterego	I think	17:40
alterego	Something like that.	17:40
alterego	And to create the file, you can just use sys.exec('touch ~/.myfile')	17:40
alterego	or whatever it is.	17:40
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alterego	Hrm, next to implement way points.	17:41
kerio	Khertan_Home: hmm	17:42
kerio	open the keyboard enough to push ctrl+shift+p but not enough to register it as open :D	17:42
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Khertan_Home	kerio, hum ... i use a timed py script :)	17:42
Khertan_Home	easier	17:42
kerio	sleep 10 && screenshot was too hard?	17:43
Khertan_Home	?	17:43
Khertan_Home	there is a command for that ?	17:43
alterego	Hahah	17:43
dneary	Jaffa, Ping	17:44
chem\|st	:)	17:44
kerio	there's probably a command for that	17:44
dneary	Jaffa, I see you picked up on the same thing as me re. architects	17:44
chem\|st	kerio: the kbd should be offline if not pulled out far enough to trigger the magnet switch	17:44
kerio	are you sure?	17:44
chem\|st	=True	17:47
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Khertan_Home	http://khertan.net/_detail/khweeteur_landscape.png?id=khweeteur	17:47
alterego	brb#	17:48
Khertan_Home	http://khertan.net/_media/khweeteur_portrait.png?w=240	17:48
Khertan_Home	the next release of Khweeteur	17:48
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dneary	chem\|st, I was thinking - you might need to improve your candidate declaration a bit... :)	17:53
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chem\|st	dneary: uhmm wtf...	17:59
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dneary	chem\|st, Or not, up to you...	17:59
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dneary	I saw "I am in if and only if the empty spaces get filled by at least 2 former or active council members.\n\nConsider this as a nominee."	18:00
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dneary	I thought you might want to say a little more about why you think you'd be good for the council	18:00
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GAN900	Round 3, appologies for the spam, but please vote here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=810296	18:04
GAN900	If you don't have a Talk account, get one and vote.	18:04
rmrfchik	does any1 here host project on garage? need help with git	18:06
Weiss_	rmrfchik: with Git in general, or just garage? I can help if it's the former	18:06
jacekowski	i can help you with git	18:07
jacekowski	but not garage	18:07
lcuk	GAN900, could you at least link to the thread please	18:07
lcuk	rather than a post in the thread	18:07
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rmrfchik	Weiss_: dunno. I'm new with git. I get "error 22" on push. With GIT_CURL_VERBOSE=1 I see HTTP/1.1 401 Authorization Required	18:08
rmrfchik	Weiss_: I have ~/.netrc with my login/password as https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=1852 says	18:08
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jacekowski	hmm, strange	18:08
jacekowski	git should ask you for password in that case	18:09
rmrfchik	it didn't	18:09
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rmrfchik	aha... I have ~/.gitconfig with username set	18:10
rmrfchik	no help.	18:10
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rmrfchik	ÈÍÍ, I see auth basic in log	18:11
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rmrfchik	my fault, wrong password.	18:13
rmrfchik	;)	18:13
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chem\|st	dneary: better?	18:14
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dneary	chem\|st, What's more important: are you happy with it?	18:14
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GAN900	lcuk, sorry, stupid Talk php.	18:17
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lcuk	GAN900, its no problem, but each time you mention that i wonder whether you want to vote up the post itself rather than having people get involved in the thread	18:17
GAN900	lcuk, yes, I get that.	18:18
rmrfchik	hrw: if you do care, vexed is hosted on garage now	18:18
lcuk	so people should be voting and commenting on the whole thread about Multitasking on Maemo ;) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61869	18:18
GAN900	It's incredible the number of ways to link to threads and posts.	18:19
lcuk	yeah	18:19
lcuk	the worst is when it does that centred thing	18:19
lcuk	knocks off the formatting	18:19
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dneary	lcuk: Are you going to accept your nomination, do you think?	18:27
dneary	(you have another few hours, but I'm not going to be around all evening...)	18:27
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tobis87	Best of all comments I found so far on the N900, Note: please do not whine, whole thing is still a temp hack. (/usr/sbin/umountfs) :-D	18:32
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Jaffa	dneary: Indeed!	18:37
dneary	Jaffa, As expected, nominations are coming in thick & fast on the last day	18:38
Jaffa	dneary: Responding to emails on a Blackberry is shit for good netiquette though. I hate roaming (wish there was something like JoikuSpot for the BB)	18:38
dneary	I think that the nomination period need only be open for 2 days, if we could guarantee that everyone knew about it	18:38
BCMM	tobis87: presumably, they mean maemo...	18:40
Jaffa	GAN900: There's a bookmarklet in the Maemo_Weekly_News wiki page to turn a forum.meego.com or talk.maemo.org URL for a post into a thread link	18:40
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lcuk	dneary, i don't see it as a nomination	18:41
lcuk	anyone can shout names	18:41
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dneary	lcuk: You got an answer to your question	18:42
dneary	lcuk: Have you seen it yet?	18:42
* lcuk hasnt checked g in a few mins		18:42
SpeedEvil	lcuk: 9.8+-3m/s^2.	18:42
tobis87	BCMM: And the file is dated 2006, a long time for a temp hack...	18:42
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BCMM	the worst thing about multitasking is lack of priority, imho	18:45
BCMM	specifically, i think it would be nice if HAM ran apt-whatever nice	18:46
tobis87	tracker and thumbnail are even worse	18:47
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* Jaffa starts thinking of his votes; timsamoff, w00t_ and sjgadsby probably come above a self-vote :)		18:50
GAN900	Jaffa, that's helpful.	18:50
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* w00t_ hasn't a clue who to vote for yet, this time		18:51
w00t_	unlike last election, where it was fairly clear cut for me	18:51
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Jaffa	w00t_: Yourself	18:51
Jaffa	w00t_: Then others, until you get to people you hate ;-)	18:52
w00t_	andrea is a possible..	18:52
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kerio	hmm... the media player sometimes stops playing in the middle of the song	18:53
kerio	and goes back to 00:00	18:53
SpeedEvil	Someone mentioned that I was eligable - is there any way of removing me from the list - I have no energy alas. :(	18:53
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kerio	SpeedEvil: shut up if you get elected you're going to go and do what's right for the world	18:54
w00t_	SpeedEvil: if you haven't nominated yourself/accepted nomination, you're ok	18:54
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SpeedEvil	Ah - ok.	18:54
kerio	it's your civic duty!	18:54
Jaffa	SpeedEvil: You're eligible to stand, but you have to post to do so	18:54
SpeedEvil	kerio: Fine - if irt was a moderate salaried position - I'm currently ordering next months groceries for 50 quid, and have no energy.	18:54
SpeedEvil	Ok. Wish I could in some ways.	18:54
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SpeedEvil	Well - most ways.	18:56
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dr34m	omg i love this phone	19:01
SpeedEvil	:)	19:01
dr34m	i just downloaded this sleeping analyser thing now i will take it to bed too !	19:01
SpeedEvil	seeping analyser?	19:01
SpeedEvil	sleeping	19:01
SpeedEvil	A seeping analyser would be something else.	19:01
dr34m	jup records your movements at night or smth	19:01
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kerio	and broadcasts it to dr34msleeps.org	19:02
kerio	a pr0n paysite	19:02
dr34m	exactly :d	19:02
dr34m	world domination plans	19:02
slonopotamus	oh my	19:06
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slonopotamus	http://svalko.org/data/2010_09_06_13_43_img_ffffound_com_static_data_assets_6_24d202e3b88e944192f34ffad5e0182585f461c0_m.gif	19:06
dr34m	loool wtf	19:07
dr34m	that your gf ?	19:07
slonopotamus	nope, found in the internets :)	19:08
slonopotamus	crazy stuff :)	19:08
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lolloo	is there a notpad for N900 thats supports Unicode?	19:13
kerio	you mean, the inputting of arbitrary unicode characters?	19:13
lolloo	I mean when i send it from pc	19:14
lolloo	already a unicode note in the notepad	19:14
GAN900	w00t_, go nominate yourself, please.	19:15
w00t_	GAN900: I did	19:16
GAN900	Ah, good.	19:16
* GAN900 isn't caught up on email.		19:16
w00t_	(despite initially not wanting to :P)	19:16
GAN900	Jaffa, if sjgadsby elects to run again, he damn well better get elected.	19:16
GAN900	w00t_, it sucks, yes, but we need good people. . . .	19:16
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lolloo	how can I save the notebook in Unicode format?	19:18
lolloo	notepad	19:18
Chibi-Taiga	how do i formar ms with n900 ?	19:18
GAN900	Over 350 votes. Good.	19:19
lcuk	dneary, how come any of the other *masters or nokians don't stand for council?	19:19
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lolloo	is there a way to open a Unicode text recieved from the PC?	19:19
GAN900	The *masters are probably involved in the community enough.	19:19
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lcuk	as am I GAN900	19:20
GAN900	Jaffa, N900 was 250 Euros.	19:21
GAN900	Jaffa, 370 USD at the time.	19:21
GAN900	Which made it a rather unappealing deal, given the week long warranty.	19:21
* jpinx-eeepc is looking for a way to export all contacts to a textfile		19:22
jpinx-eeepc	in fact I am looking for where the database is stored so I can do a manual backup, Any ideas anyone?	19:23
dneary	lcuk: For my part, I'd be a little uncomfortable being both master & peasant	19:24
dneary	lcuk: The council is supposed to be directing me :)	19:24
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lcuk	really dneary how did you direct yourself before the council existed?	19:26
dneary	lcuk: Basically, Quim did. And there was lots to do, so easy to see what people wanted	19:27
lcuk	ie, i thought it was a symbiosis	19:27
dneary	It is a symbiosis	19:27
lcuk	anyway dneary, I mailed back on the thread	19:30
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mva	hi there	19:32
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dneary	lcuk: I didn't know you were officially a Maemo staff member now	19:36
lcuk	I am not	19:36
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lcuk	but I put myself up to spend my community time wisely	19:36
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lcuk	and dneary on the Fremantle Application Framework team is not the same as maemo.org stuff as you know.	19:38
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mva	i've trouble with maemo. When I reboot n900 today all captions in native language comes broken («wdgt_va_24h_time», «ai_category_system», «ai_ap_name», etc). Also, maemo change it's region to Algeria, and no system language. And it is impossible to change neither region (it suggest to reboot, whet clicking "save" and comes Algeria again after reboot). nor language (it is no any languages in list)	19:40
dneary	lcuk: OK	19:40
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mva	is it fixable without flashing?	19:40
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Noobmonk3y	Fremantle Application Framework Team - ie, the faffing team?	19:44
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lcuk	Noobmonk3y, yes	19:46
Noobmonk3y	sounds like my kinda team : hehehe	19:46
Noobmonk3y	does it involve free bacon?	19:46
lcuk	we faff with the system to try and support all the thousands of community apps as well as the entire system too :P	19:46
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, hmm	19:46
Noobmonk3y	lcuk... it almost sounds like work, maybe not :P	19:46
Noobmonk3y	kerio seems to have resolved his Bacon issue too :)	19:47
Noobmonk3y	brb , picking up the missus	19:49
lcuk	heh ok \o	19:49
Chibi-Taiga	wierd, n900 cant read psp encoded video's	19:49
slonopotamus	weird, psp requires some special video encoding	19:50
Chibi-Taiga	special?	19:50
Chibi-Taiga	just h264 at 480x272	19:50
slonopotamus	dunno, you said "psp encoded video"	19:51
Chibi-Taiga	we all know psp cant encode rite	19:51
* Noobmonk3y encodes a trout with a psp and throws it at frals		19:51
DocScrutinizer	no I don't	19:51
DocScrutinizer	what's psp? :-P	19:52
Noobmonk3y	pretty sensitive peanut	19:52
Chibi-Taiga	i thought latest mobiles supported h264-avc mp4	19:52
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer: i thought playstation portable	19:52
slonopotamus	~wtf psp	19:52
infobot	Gee... I don't know what psp means...	19:52
Noobmonk3y	~psp	19:52
infobot	psp are Pot Smokin Programmers	19:52
Chibi-Taiga	lol	19:53
DocScrutinizer	and I'm supposed to know details about that?	19:53
slonopotamus	oh	19:53
Noobmonk3y	there we go, bot has spoken	19:53
Chibi-Taiga	fserver a bot ?	19:53
BCMM	Particularly Stupid Programmers	19:53
CreamyG	can someone explain this, i'm looking at a shell script and it starts: if [ -e /path/filename ]	19:54
CreamyG	does the -e actually check if it exists?	19:54
slonopotamus	though in 90s psp meant paintshop pro	19:54
BCMM	CreamyG: what's teh hashbang? this is a bash script?	19:54
alterego	CreamyG: yes, that is what -e does ..	19:54
DocScrutinizer	CreamyG: man bash	19:54
CreamyG	hmm ok, it's not google-able	19:55
CreamyG	thanks	19:55
Chibi-Taiga	ok ok handy playstation	19:55
Chibi-Taiga	>_>	19:55
slonopotamus	or, better, man test	19:55
BCMM	CreamyG: it is checking taht it exists, but nothing else	19:55
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BCMM	CreamyG: e.g. it could be a regular file or a FIFO or a directory or something	19:56
CreamyG	ok... well it doesn't seem to work as intended. i was hoping its missing a command or something.	19:56
BCMM	CreamyG: http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_68.html	19:56
BCMM	CreamyG: can you pastebin the script?	19:56
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slonopotamus	if something doesn't work as expected, you're expecting a wrong thing	19:57
CreamyG	uhh its part of conky, i'll PM u a link to that file in the git repository... lol hey i didn't code that, i'm bug fixing it	19:57
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BCMM	why PM? i'm sure there are people here who know more bash than i do	19:58
slonopotamus	BCMM: maybe it's an u6er-sekrit link	19:59
CreamyG	kk here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=monky;a=blob;f=debian/conky.sh;h=34f071ea5cc7096e44b2b28650f95c7de6e612a6;hb=HEAD	19:59
slonopotamus	`which conky` o_O	20:00
DocScrutinizer	`which conky` -d -c /home/user/MyDocs/conky.conf ?? what a cruft is THAT?	20:00
BugBlue	WTF...	20:00
CreamyG	yeah i googled that one, which gets the full path of conky	20:00
BCMM	yeah, wtf?	20:00
BugBlue	CreamyG: why?	20:01
DocScrutinizer	why??	20:01
DocScrutinizer	lol	20:01
BugBlue	if which can find it, your bash can too	20:01
CreamyG	how should i know, i didn't write it lol	20:01
BCMM	does "`which foo`" ever do something differet from "foo"?	20:01
BCMM	other than a bit of sensless process creation	20:01
DocScrutinizer	nope	20:01
BugBlue	and then again	20:01
BugBlue	why the -c options..	20:01
BCMM	also, i've never encountered a hashbang with parameters before, is it actually OK?	20:02
BugBlue	if(-c) fopen(arg) else { fopen(a) \|\| fopen(b) }	20:02
slonopotamus	BCMM: well, it'll fail if which is not available :)	20:02
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: actually it is	20:02
lolloo	guys, is there a unicode compatibile notepad?	20:02
BugBlue	BCMM: it works... but useless in the case	20:02
BCMM	slonopotamus: yeah, it should use `which which` to make sure it can find it...	20:02
BCMM	oh, i understand now	20:03
slonopotamus	BCMM: i think which is builtin	20:03
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slonopotamus	BCMM: so which which won't find it :)	20:03
CreamyG	well the problem is, if the conky.conf doesn't exist in mydocs, it doesn't load at all... but only if i don't have the n900 in mass storage mode. i'm so confused.	20:03
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BCMM	-x "The shell shall write to standard error a trace for each command after it expands the command and before it executes it. "	20:03
slonopotamus	okay, i'm wrong	20:03
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DocScrutinizer	well actually if `which x` can't find x then the result is different from a plain `x`	20:04
BCMM	so the idea of the `which` and the -x is to make it output the commands it's executing to stderr, as if it was using full paths	20:04
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DocScrutinizer	...what for sure isn't the intended way of operation here	20:05
BCMM	yeah, it's a pretty bizarre way to do it	20:05
DocScrutinizer	it'S weird, nuts, crazy	20:06
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mikki-kun	hi there... what could cause my emails on the n900 not to update anymore?	20:06
DocScrutinizer	and probably not messybox-proof	20:06
mikki-kun	and how can i debug what goes wrong at which point?	20:06
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lolloo	mikki-kun: maybe custom firmware	20:07
mikki-kun	lolloo: hu? i didn't change anything except for where i live now...	20:08
mikki-kun	moved away and yeah, since then emails don't update anymore	20:08
lolloo	I cant seem to save in Unicode on notepad	20:10
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mikki-kun	notepad on windows?	20:11
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CreamyG	hey lolloo just try notepad++ or something, if it's not working	20:15
lolloo	CreamyG: is there one for N900?	20:16
CreamyG	and mikki-kun, you need to say what type of account you have set up - pop, imap, nokia messaging, etc and what program you are using to check the email. plus there's like a million people with that problem on the forum, u could probalby just google it	20:16
CreamyG	on the n900, well u never said that... lol. try leafpad or something, i dunno	20:17
CreamyG	if note pad is the "notes" app that came build in, i'm not surprised if it can't do what u need	20:17
lolloo	CreamyG: will do, thankyou	20:19
CreamyG	ahh i bet i know what's wrong with conky, probably that default .conf file is crashing it.	20:19
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mikki-kun	CreamyG: i think i found a solution which mentions the router blocking imap-conections	20:21
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CreamyG	mikki-kun, imap doesn't work 100% i think. u might have to remove and add the account back or something. i think the nokia messaging works better, you might want to try that	20:23
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kerio	Noobmonk3y: i didn't solve my bacon issue actually	20:27
chem\|st	~seen dneary	20:27
infobot	dneary <~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 47m 24s ago, saying: 'lcuk: OK'.	20:27
kerio	DocScrutinizer made me remove the bot :(	20:27
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Noobmonk3y	oh	20:30
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lolloo	thses isnt support for ISO-88591 character codes in notepads	20:41
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kerio	and for good reason	20:43
kerio	you should be using utf8	20:43
N9revenge	i'm freaking disappointed there will be no N9 at nokia world in london....WTF???? anyody kno whats going on?	20:43
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N9revenge	people say n9 is delayed???? wtf???	20:44
kerio	they ran out of unicorns	20:44
kerio	Apple got the last batch	20:44
N9revenge	nokia wants to be playa they aint gonna be there without n9 and meego,	20:44
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kerio	i think nokia's last concern is being "playa"	20:45
lcuk	N9revenge, to be fair, theres an N8 being made available right about now.	20:45
SpeedEvil	They should have ordered some from thinkgeek.	20:45
SpeedEvil	http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/unicorn-meat.shtml	20:45
N9revenge	kerio: why? n9 looks freakin smoking man	20:45
lcuk	N9revenge, wheres the Nokia page for the N9?	20:46
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kerio	SpeedEvil: supposedly Apple is working on a virgin blood reactor for their reality distortion field	20:46
N9revenge	but n8 is same old shitty symbian....bring the N9 on and start rockin man!	20:46
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kerio	that should leave more unicorns available for the other companies	20:46
N9revenge	lcuk: nokia page? whatcha talkin bout?	20:47
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lcuk	like I say N9revenge - show me some official nokia site showing that the N9 exists	20:47
lcuk	cos I certainly havent read anything	20:47
N9revenge	lcuk: are you saying its all bullshit talk?	20:47
N9revenge	it dont exist?	20:48
lcuk	has it been announced?	20:48
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N9revenge	the russian blogger dude i forget his name now was saying N9 is delayed....i was like wtf??? nokia cant afford to wait man	20:49
pupnik_	there are just pictures from china of something that looks like a nokia prototype	20:49
lcuk	"russian blogger dude" hmm	20:49
lcuk	he sounds like official source to me	20:49
N9revenge	lcuk: whut?	20:49
pupnik_	lcuk is someone who isn't allowed to talk about the n9 N9revenge	20:49
N9revenge	you kiddin man the russian dude was right about a lotta things...	20:49
Noobmonk3y	lcuk sssssssh the N9 is the new codename for the iphone6million	20:50
lcuk	so was rosey lee	20:50
N9revenge	n900 is yesterdays news....maemo needs new fones	20:50
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kerio	so make one	20:51
N9revenge	i thought n9 was it....are there any insiders in this channel?	20:51
lcuk	ooh hey RevdKathy	20:51
SpeedEvil	Maemo is very unlikely to be on any new phone.	20:51
Noobmonk3y	n9 yesish, lol	20:51
SpeedEvil	It's meego.	20:51
Noobmonk3y	and lol	20:51
N9revenge	any nokia insiders here?	20:51
* lcuk was just sorting own stuff out		20:51
RevdKathy	Hi -lcuk! thought I'd find you here	20:51
* Noobmonk3y waves @ Kathy!!!!		20:51
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lcuk	indeed, i thought you were knitting :P	20:51
ShadowJK	saying it's "delayed" is kinda funny considering there's been no announce date.. heck, N9 doesn't officially exist even.	20:51
Noobmonk3y	lcuk - knitting the new n9? lol	20:51
RevdKathy	Hi noobmonk3y! How're you?	20:51
* Noobmonk3y feels like starting rumours		20:51
CreamyG	how can a file i uploaded to the n900 with sftp only show up with the nokia file manager but not in the shell or mass storage mode?	20:51
SpeedEvil	CreamyG: you're looking in the wrong places	20:52
Noobmonk3y	i'm very very good thank you!!! how are you?!	20:52
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N9revenge	i wanna talk to nokia insiders....they gotta know this shit	20:52
RevdKathy	Threatening to be knitting maemo-org n900 socks and green meegons for conference	20:52
SpeedEvil	They are also bound by NDAs N9	20:52
timoph\|away	RevdKathy: please do :)	20:52
CreamyG	it's just in MyDocs	20:52
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RevdKathy	Glad to hear it, Noobmonk3y! generally good, ta, though under pressure	20:52
Noobmonk3y	pressure? eeeeeeeeek	20:53
N9revenge	wtf???? fuck nda	20:53
RevdKathy	maemo.org n900 socks should be very simple	20:53
SpeedEvil	N9revenge: I would be happy to break any and all NDAs I have signed with nokia to conceal information I know about the n9 for only $1000 by paypal.	20:53
kerio	i'll do that for $999	20:54
timoph	ah. /ignore is a bliss	20:54
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CreamyG	i still have the ftp window open, says i uploaded it to /home/user/MyDocs. Conky loads it. nokia file manager sees it. but if i open a shell to that location or mount the drive with usb it's not there	20:55
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Yabba	Any PyQt4 gurus in here to tell me why my buttons looks like this? http://www.kolumbus.fi/yabbapappa/Muut/Screenshot.png	20:59
GAN900	$10 I can coerce Kathy into running.	21:00
GAN900	RevdKathy!	21:00
RevdKathy	Hi GAN900	21:00
RevdKathy	Thank you for the email	21:00
GAN900	RevdKathy, any time. :) Are you running?	21:01
lcuk	Yabba, is that 2 buttons or 6	21:01
lcuk	err 10	21:01
* timoph would love to see RevdKathy accept the nomination		21:01
CreamyG	wtf, so i deleted "conky.conf" from the nokia file manager, and the other stuff says "conky.conf.bak" was deleted. i guess it was just hiding the .bak to confuse me. great feature.	21:01
Yabba	There is only 2 buttons on that. Shutter and activate 2 sec mode	21:01
RevdKathy	Ummm not sure. I have till midnight, yes? Though Dave has me as a 'no' so migth need permission to change my mind!	21:01
lcuk	Yabba, check bugzille see if its a qt specific bug	21:02
lcuk	ooh my credit got topped up	21:02
GAN900	RevdKathy, no, your deadline is right now.	21:02
* lcuk was waiting for that msg		21:02
CreamyG	i'd love to know how conky was loading the conky.conf.bak though	21:02
Yabba	lcuk, ok	21:02
GAN900	If you don't run I'm going to be sad.	21:02
lcuk	are you running gan?	21:02
RevdKathy	I didn't come in here for strokes - was looking for lcuk	21:02
RevdKathy	do you want me to call you lcuk?	21:02
timoph	:)	21:03
lcuk	02: You've now got unlimited UK texts and unlimited internet to use this month" :D	21:03
lcuk	nahh RevdKathy I will call you, just making a cuppa 1st	21:03
RevdKathy	yippee!	21:03
RevdKathy	ok - I have minutes to spare but don't seem to have your number	21:03
RevdKathy	aha - found it in my sms line 10 months old!	21:04
lcuk	you should have now I just sms'ed, hang on still gotta get a brew	21:04
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RevdKathy	just in time :-)	21:05
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DocScrutinizer	hello RevdKathy	21:07
RevdKathy	Hi DocScrutinizer! How're you?	21:08
DocScrutinizer	come ci come ca	21:08
RevdKathy	Is that good?	21:10
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GAN900	lcuk, god no.	21:11
GAN900	I'm conning Kathy into running for me.	21:11
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lcuk	why, if she replaces you she will have to become grumpy and we like kathy to smile :P	21:11
RevdKathy	A grumpy bear would be a bad idea!	21:12
GAN900	RevdKathy, I wont abuse you over it, but I REALLY hope you run, and I know you'll fit the role perfectly. :)	21:13
GAN900	Whatever you yourself may think.	21:13
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Meldiuz	hello	21:31
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johnsq	Hi	21:33
Meldiuz	Does anyone know how to make rootsh ask for the root password to login as root on the N900?	21:35
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Meldiuz	it makes me nervous that any program I install could have so easily root privileges...	21:36
[sergiu]	install su and remove rootsh :p	21:36
zokier	s/su/sudo/	21:37
DocScrutinizer	create a password: `root; passwd` - then edit /etc/sudoers: change "NOPASSWD" to "PASSWD" or just delete	21:37
DocScrutinizer	[sergiu]: BS	21:37
Meldiuz	ok thanks for your replies :) I'm going to try now...	21:38
zokier	DocScrutinizer, doesn't removing nopasswd make sudo ask for the users password instead of roots password?	21:38
DocScrutinizer	user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot -> user ALL = PASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot	21:40
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FireStorm\|	evening, just got my phone back from nokia!!!! and i got no contacts can i import them directly from googlemail?	21:40
DocScrutinizer	Defaults targetpw # ask for the password of the target user i.e. root	21:41
Dassu	anybody here using Groove? (GrooveShark client)	21:42
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FireStorm\|	DocScrutinizer was it u who's the eletrical engineer?	21:42
Dassu	Updated to newer version and now search doesn't work :/	21:43
DocScrutinizer	~ DocScrutinizer	21:43
infobot	[docscrutinizer] jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko	21:43
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Meldiuz	didn't work...	21:43
FireStorm\|	i'm trying to think who i spoke to last time about phone screen going, ur name rings a bell :p	21:43
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: see my above two posts	21:43
DocScrutinizer	forget the fools	21:44
Meldiuz	couldn't get su pkg with apt-get install : couldn't find it	21:44
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: forget it!!!!	21:44
DocScrutinizer	su doesn't work, even if you'd find	21:45
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: [sergiu] and zokier were kidding you	21:45
DocScrutinizer	(or they are noobs who don't know better)	21:46
Dassu	okies seems like groove no longer works ;___;	21:46
Meldiuz	DocScrutunizer : your option didn't make a difference either	21:47
FireStorm\|	any idea then can u import gmail contacts to the phone?	21:47
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: edit /etc/sudoers, add first line >>Defaults targetpw<<, change line >>user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot<< to read PASSWD instead of NOPASSWD	21:47
DocScrutinizer	then, if that works, do the same edit in the file /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo	21:48
zokier	actually, i don't know the reason why i should use some strange rootsh/gainroot/root-scripts instead of just using sudo -s	21:48
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DocScrutinizer	uhuh, just try sudo -s without rootsh installed, fool	21:49
DocScrutinizer	then learn about messybox	21:50
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zokier	http://codepad.org/24j7PBaG like this?	21:53
Meldiuz	I still get root access straight away, when I type root	21:53
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Meldiuz	should I restart the n900?	21:54
Meldiuz	I've added the 1st line and changed to PASSWD	21:54
joga	tried sudo -k first?	21:55
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joga	("The -k (kill) option to sudo invalidates the user’s timestamp by setting the time on it to the Epoch. The next time sudo is run a password will be required.")	21:55
joga	not sure how it's configured on the n900 though	21:55
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DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: works for me, try sudo -k, or just wait 10min(?) until old password times out	22:00
steinex	how's battery drain with openntpd running?	22:00
DocScrutinizer	marginally better	22:00
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steinex	DocScrutinizer: ok :D	22:00
DocScrutinizer	err worse	22:00
steinex	DocScrutinizer: so not worth thinking about?	22:01
DocScrutinizer	not really	22:01
steinex	fine, thanks	22:01
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steinex	time was always off 3 minutes, even with that "sync time" option in the GUI enabled, no clue why	22:01
DocScrutinizer	steinex: your GSM carrier is crap	22:02
DocScrutinizer	:-)	22:02
steinex	;)	22:02
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DocScrutinizer	steinex: you occasionally might want to issue `hwclock --systohc`	22:03
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FireStorm\|	any ideas if u can import gmail contacs into the n900?	22:04
steinex	sounds reasonable, will give that a cronjob	22:04
steinex	checking out iodine tonight	22:05
steinex	to get teh packetz from this very crappy gsm-carrier when they put me to 2g speed after 20ß0mb ;-)	22:06
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DocScrutinizer	ouch	22:06
steinex	hm?	22:06
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DocScrutinizer	for the 2G downgrade	22:07
steinex	the thing is... i would even upgrade to 1G or something like that. but they want 35euro more for an upgrade to 5G/month which i wouldn't ever need	22:08
DocScrutinizer	5GB flat here	22:08
steinex	nothing in between	22:08
steinex	:/	22:08
DocScrutinizer	""flat""	22:08
Meldiuz	sudo -k didn't make any diiference	22:08
DocScrutinizer	O2-loop with INTERNET-L	22:08
steinex	DocScrutinizer: vodafone here	22:09
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: worked for me	22:09
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lcuk	RevdKathy, omg	22:09
steinex	DocScrutinizer: i tried some dns-tunnel tests with them when i was downgraded again	22:09
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steinex	7kb/s without, 70kb/s with dns-tunnel	22:09
steinex	just need to get this in shape for daily use and i'm fine ;-)	22:09
RevdKathy	ran out of credit?	22:10
kerio	woot! dns tunneling!	22:10
Meldiuz	so I'm going to restart the N900 (so I'll quit the channel and come back	22:10
zokier	dnstunnel sounds...hacky	22:10
kerio	dns tunneling is awesome	22:10
steinex	RevdKathy: no, my plan just includes 200mb	22:10
Meldiuz	by the way what does BS mean?	22:10
kerio	and not that easy to detect	22:10
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: I added the >>Defaults targetpw<< line, deleted "NO", and saved the file. Then tried to `root` from a xterm on N900 and it asked for my root password which luckily was set	22:10
DocScrutinizer	~wtf BS	22:11
infobot	BS: bullshit	22:11
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: on rebooting N900 your edits in /etc/sudoers get lost	22:11
kerio	you need to add a file of your own in /etc/sudoers.d/	22:11
DocScrutinizer	Meldiuz: you need to edit /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo for taking effect on next boot	22:12
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zokier	that's strange...	22:13
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: adding files to /etc/sudoers.d/* is fine for new things, it's messy for overriding existing things like sudo gainroot	22:14
Meldiuz	thanks for your answer infobot	22:15
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	22:15
infobot	DocScrutinizer: :)	22:15
Meldiuz	DocSrutinizer : yes I've changed the 2nd file	22:15
Meldiuz	well I'm rebooting now	22:16
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DocScrutinizer	so now run update-sudoers and fine you are	22:16
DocScrutinizer	or just boot	22:16
DocScrutinizer	bbl, cya	22:16
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mece	is there a new meego image out today?	22:18
X-Fade	mece: Every wednesday.	22:19
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mece	imagine that, it just happens to be wednesday :)	22:19
mece	Alright I think I'm gonna try the latest one out, and see how it is. curious	22:19
X-Fade	Oh wow, indeed :D	22:19
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* lcuk has melted earwax		22:21
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mece	lcuk, good to know.	22:23
mece	ok, I'm out.	22:23
mece	bbl.	22:23
lcuk	\o	22:23
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Meldiuz	there was an other line to change and now it's working :)	22:28
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Meldiuz	on /etc/sudoers there was an other line further down with 'user ALL = NOPASSWD: All'	22:30
Meldiuz	so changed it to PASSWD too	22:30
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MohammadAG	anyone played around with QImage?	22:39
X-Fade	Pretty cool to use helsinki bus catcher and then see the actual bus you have been following on the map come by.	22:39
steinex	wait what.. you get gps data from busses in helsinki?	22:40
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X-Fade	steinex: The bus service actually publishes that data.	22:41
steinex	awesome.	22:41
steinex	lightyears in front of germany	22:41
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lcuk	X-Fade, making use of digital data is on the the govt commitments isnt it?	22:41
lcuk	or making it actively available for consumption	22:41
zokier	MohammadAG, i've used it a little bit	22:42
FireStorm\|	any ideas if u can import gmail contacts into phone with out setting mail client up?	22:42
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MohammadAG	zokier, can I load an image into a QDialog with it?	22:42
lcuk	FireStorm\|, any idea how to export gmail contacts?	22:42
RevdKathy	lcuk - earwax from being on the phone so long!	22:42
lcuk	yes RevdKathy	22:42
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lcuk	but i had to put my drops in the other ear too	22:42
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RevdKathy	Sowwy! It was useful to talk though	22:43
zokier	MohammadAG, i think you need a qwidget where you put the image first	22:43
lcuk	indeed RevdKathy	22:43
RevdKathy	struggling with this email!	22:43
* MohammadAG scratches head		22:43
lcuk	"give me 10 million dollars or the bear gets it?" mail, or another?	22:44
hrw\|gone	MohammadAG: your pulseaudio etc packages are available with proper sources?	22:44
knightstalker	OMG,I received the 12th SMS from Ovi store giving out a link which I 'shared' with myself,How to stop This?	22:44
* knightstalker slaps Ovi anyway		22:44
FireStorm\|	well no lcuk u can export to a file though can't u	22:45
MohammadAG	hrw\|gone, I linked to the patch I used	22:45
lcuk	GIT	22:45
lcuk	you need it	22:45
lcuk	FireStorm\|, IDK	22:45
MohammadAG	lcuk, indeed, too many things floating around in my head right now :/	22:45
lcuk	i believe though if you have contacts in vcontact format they are imporatable, but don't quote me on that	22:45
FireStorm\|	cause i really cba to hand enter all the my contacts again	22:46
RevdKathy	lcuk I think on that basis the bear is kapok!	22:46
hrw\|gone	MohammadAG: but no dsc/diff/tar.gz debian style ones?	22:46
lcuk	RevdKathy, just think of the fish nibbling	22:46
RevdKathy	Eek! tickly!	22:46
MohammadAG	hrw\|gone, lemme check, though I think I forgot them on my old scratchbox	22:46
MohammadAG	which apparently didn't rsync :P	22:46
FireStorm\|	can u set phone to save to sim rather then to phone then?	22:47
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zokier	MohammadAG, apparently qlabel is the widget if you want to display an image	22:48
zokier	it uses qpixmaps	22:48
lcuk	:D	22:48
* MohammadAG scratches head again :P		22:48
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knightstalker	OMG,I received the 12th SMS from Ovi store giving out a link which I 'shared' with myself,How to stop This?	22:49
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MohammadAG	oh, I see	22:49
* MohammadAG checks		22:49
lcuk	FireStorm\|, no http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=maemo+contacts+sim	22:50
hrw\|gone	who has PyQt4/maemo experience here?	22:50
lolloo	knightstalker: you think aslking twice will let ppl answer you...	22:50
zokier	qimage is used only for storing images in memory, you need a widget to display it. qlabel is such widget	22:50
FireStorm\|	gett what crap is that!!!	22:50
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lcuk	but theres plenty of advice about copying contacts over	22:50
knightstalker	lolloo,Yes	22:50
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FireStorm\|	so i can import from sim to phone but i can't export to it whats that all about lol	22:51
lolloo	knightstalker: atleast try asking another way...	22:51
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FireStorm\|	thats like they half a job and it was 5pm friday so went home and just left it lol	22:52
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knightstalker	lolloo,and you can help community another way too ^_^	22:52
lcuk	knightstalker, or go and ask ovi	22:52
knightstalker	lcuk,how I may ask?	22:53
knightstalker	lcuk,how, may ask?*	22:53
zokier	MohammadAG, alternatively you could subclass qdialog and draw the image directly in the paintevent on screen	22:53
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lcuk	knightstalker, perhaps you could go onto the ovi store with your account and see if theres a support button?	22:54
lcuk	since its ovi sending you a message	22:54
lcuk	relating to someinthg you did on the ovi store	22:55
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lcuk	or on ovi data service rather	22:55
knightstalker	lcuk,well,I do not think they provide support while I did use proxies to get rid of their 'This service isn't available in your area' thingy,but I may try...	22:55
lcuk	hey knightstalker - so you snuck in by the side entrance, used the service against the stated terms and now crying to us when it doesnt go as expected?	22:56
knightstalker	Yes,as it accepted my Phone number	22:56
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lcuk	sigh	22:57
lcuk	gnite	22:57
knightstalker	^_^	22:57
knightstalker	Byez :P	22:57
FireStorm\|	lol	22:57
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FireStorm\|	lcuk whats that don't let the door slam behind you on the way out.	22:59
Jaffa	re	22:59
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Jaffa	GAN900: Ah, my mistake EUR symbol isn't 7-bit safe	23:00
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Jaffa	RevdKathy: So it was lcuk gibing you a verbal bashing to stand?	23:05
FireStorm\|	lcuk u reckon maemo can import v cards?	23:05
RevdKathy	We talked about many things, but that was part of it. And all the emails and tweets, too	23:05
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Jaffa	RevdKathy: Cool, glad you changed your mind	23:06
RevdKathy	Lcuk and I also discussed getting your feet nibbled by fish.	23:06
Jaffa	Gold fish shoals nibbling on your toes?	23:06
RevdKathy	Thanks. Of course, standing is no guarantee of election!	23:06
RevdKathy	no, I think it was piranhas, actually	23:06
Jaffa	It does if there are exactly 3 or 5 candidate (past that point now)	23:06
RevdKathy	Well past that point and all excellent candidates (except me)	23:07
MohammadAG	Argh	23:07
RevdKathy	argh?	23:07
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GAN900	RevdKathy, enough of that or we'll have to get the trouts out.	23:08
RevdKathy	To nibble my feet?	23:08
GAN900	Jaffa, $250 would've been reasonable. :P	23:08
Jaffa	GAN900: Indeed. But it was so much easier for Nokia to administer :-/	23:09
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Chibi-Taiga	hey guys is there any show/hide event in xchat ?	23:09
andre__	what is that?	23:10
Chibi-Taiga	what is what	23:10
satmd	you want to go away if you switch away from xchat?	23:10
satmd	I'm afraid this isn't possible with xchat (yet?)	23:10
Chibi-Taiga	... show/hide events	23:10
Chibi-Taiga	meaning hide join/part/quit statuses	23:11
andre__	repeating with the same words does not make it clearer...	23:11
andre__	ah.	23:11
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GAN900	Jaffa, apparently a couple of people have processed warranty claims through Nokia Care.	23:12
GAN900	Chibi-Taiga, yes.	23:12
GAN900	Although I can't currently remember the command.	23:12
Chibi-Taiga	darn	23:12
GAN900	Likely something in settings, too.	23:12
Chibi-Taiga	it would save log spave lol	23:12
andre__	I can't find anything in the xchat UI on my machine here (not N900) about this	23:12
Chibi-Taiga	i can find anything for show/hide events	23:13
Jaffa	GAN900: Impressive.	23:13
alterego	Oh that's interesting. If you use the Qt Mobility API to keep the screen alive, it actually wakes the device up from screen lock	23:13
Chibi-Taiga	on my pc i use mirc	23:13
Chibi-Taiga	way beter	23:13
alterego	Neat for development, pain in the arse if someone does something annoying with it.	23:13
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RevdKathy	'Night all!	23:22
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FireStorm\|	lol gotta love pc suite and windows 7	23:28
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DocScrutinizer	Chibi-Taiga: hide join/quit is in chan-tab context menu (click+hold)	23:31
hrw\|gone	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=811007&postcount=206 for ApMeFo users	23:31
DocScrutinizer	Chibi-Taiga: in N900 xchat	23:31
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Chibi-Taiga	richt click ? how ?	23:32
Chibi-Taiga	err nvm	23:32
hrw\|gone	DocScrutinizer: opinion?	23:32
Chibi-Taiga	misreaded	23:32
Chibi-Taiga	thx	23:32
DocScrutinizer	hwoarang: my current opinion is simply >>burrp<<	23:32
DocScrutinizer	hrw\|gone: ^^	23:32
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hrw\|gone	DocScrutinizer: noted	23:34
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DocScrutinizer	sorry, but even slowly fading into >>yawn<< (damn, that greek dinner)	23:34
DocScrutinizer	also	23:35
DocScrutinizer	~tmo	23:35
infobot	tmo is, like, http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic	23:35
hrw\|gone	DocScrutinizer: no problem	23:35
DocScrutinizer	though I preferred the former def	23:35
hrw\|gone	DocScrutinizer: I just know that you use it so you are good person to ask	23:35
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DocScrutinizer	I'll open the thread in browser and read it tomorrow, deal?	23:36
hrw\|gone	sure	23:36
hrw\|gone	DocScrutinizer: in short: no more tabs	23:36
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DocScrutinizer	pics look nice	23:37
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DocScrutinizer	but await spanking, I'm a harsh usability critic	23:37
hrw\|gone	;)	23:37
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DocScrutinizer	well, it can't get worse than original apmefo :-P	23:38
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hrw\|gone	o yes	23:39
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MNZ	hrw\|gone, that looks much better than current design. More in sync with the way of the maemo :D	23:47
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pog	the N900 device /home/user/MyDoc is vfat. Wouln't it work to reformat in an linux format? Or is there a hw restriction for the memory device?	23:48
joga	pog, it's a sensible choice considering you probably want to mount it with several different OSes and they all support fat	23:48
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pog	from this pont of view, yes. But not less good to install a another bootabel Linux-OS.	23:50
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FireStorm\|	lcuk ur right it dont' work	23:51
pog	I havend seen yet, wether the device can be taken out of the device.	23:51
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pog	you mead per as USB-Device, o.k.	23:51
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FireStorm\|	lcuk yer it don't work, if u import via data suite. and select vcf it don't do it just errors	23:54
FireStorm\|	if u select contacts which is xls / vcf / txt it trys and puts all contact in as one	23:54
pog	one might perhaps reformat to one part vat32, and a second part ext3, which works in general with usbsticks	23:54
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pog	but there is another sd-Device, which I could use, I beliefe.	23:55
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FireStorm\|	lcuk if u import it at a vcf card it just crashes the comminucation cntre lol	23:56
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DocScrutinizer	joy of Nokia suite?	23:57
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