IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-09-07

kerioMohammadAG: buy a tv capture card00:00
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crashanddietobis87: which is why it is now commonly accepted practice to use a proxy key that still enables admin/recovery.00:00
crashanddietobis87: and multiple users, too.00:00
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MohammadAGkerio, AV sucks00:02
MohammadAGTV out that is00:02
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: sounds sensible00:02
kerioworked nicely to watch inglorious basterds for me00:02
crashanddiewell, it's a shit movie00:02
crashanddieso shit quality won't hurt it00:02
kerioit's really not00:02
crashanddieit totally is00:02
keriois not00:03
crashanddienow half of america is going to think hitler died in a fire in paris00:03
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keriocrashanddie: so it's not a shit movie, it's a shit population00:03
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DocScrutinizermeh, scratch that, me off for TV00:04
crashanddieit's still a shit movie that uses a tragic event and marginalises it00:04
keriocrashanddie: eli roth killing a nazi with a baseball bat00:04
crashanddiePeople will remember the 6 mass murdering jews, who beat the graphic shit out of poor nazis who were doing the ethical thing00:04
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kerioand by "people" you mean americans00:05
crashanddie("No, I shall not give up my intel so you can kill more of my friends, I will die before that")00:05
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crashanddieno, I mean any generation who hasn't passed age 20 when seeing this movie00:05
kerioi still haven't passed age 2000:06
crashanddieand even then some00:06
crashanddieIt's as bad a movie as the passion of christ00:06
kerioexcept that nazis are real00:06
kerionot sure why you try to attribute a meaning to a movie by tarantino00:07
crashanddiewell, there is scientific proof that Jesus has lived. Whether he is or not the son of a god is up for debate00:07
crashanddielet's just agree to disagree00:08
crashanddieand leave it at that00:08
keriobut... you're wrong!00:08
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tobis87crashanddie: I don't have much knowledge regarding smartcards, but I hope the key server sits behind a DMZ. Latest thing I tried to do at home was a transparent firewall with layer 3 filtering, but I never had the time to do it properly.00:08
crashanddietobis87: what do you mean by key server?00:08
crashanddieThe certificate authority?00:09
crashanddieWell, the root CA is always heavily protected00:09
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crashanddieRoot CA is usually just a hard drive in a safe00:09
alteregoHeh, the transitions between my apps' "themes" are gonna be awesome :D00:09
keriocrashanddie: is it mirrored?00:10
* DocScrutinizer51 burps a shitty root CA00:10
crashanddiekerio: it can, but isn't necessarily00:10
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keriono, i mean, is there a way to find out if it was manipulated?00:10
crashanddieoh, yeah00:10
crashanddieyou need n-of-m keys to open it00:11
crashanddiefor example, the DoD has a 16 of 128 keys policy00:11
keriothe safe?00:11
crashanddiemeaning they need 16 smart cards of the 128 smart cards issued to open the private key of the root ca00:11
keriooh, i see00:11
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kerioand the keys are distributed to trusted people00:11
crashanddienone of the people holding the smart cards know another one who holds the key, and none of them know the PIN of the card00:12
crashanddieso effectively, they need 32 people available00:12
keriowait, everyone knows all the other PINs?00:12
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crashanddieone person only knows one PIN, but doesn't know who holds the smartcard00:12
keriodamn, they're really overcomplicating it00:13
crashanddieI think that's the whole point of the exercice :P00:13
crashanddiekerio: I won't even begin to explain VeriSign's architecture... They have 3 root CAs...00:13
crashanddiewell, 3 public ones, at least00:13
tobis87crashanddie: Tell us, is DoD 5220.22-M safe, or do we need to use the Gutmann method (35 patterns) to wipe our harddrives. :-D00:14
crashanddieno idea what you're talking about, lol00:14
keriocrashanddie: and every CA needs 512 of 4096 smart cards to open *and* a piece of data that's stored togheter the other two?00:14
crashanddiekerio: nha, not that crazy, but still00:14
keriowhile in the middle of a pentagram made of blood00:15
kerioin a full moon *and* a solstice00:15
crashanddieand someone in the kitchen has to walk around an old citroen counter clockwise while painting himself with kitten blood00:15
keriothose kittens are sacrificing themselves for our SSLed irc ;_;00:16
kerioso... who are those 128 people?00:17
crashanddiebasically, what those protocols do is make it more likely for a technology-based attack than a methodology00:17
crashanddiekerio: I have no idea00:17
crashanddiekerio: I wasn't cleared for top secret with US intel00:17
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crashanddieI was vetted as SC in the UK00:18
crashanddiethough that's been withdrawn ever since I applied for the Australian Visa00:19
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kerioKaKaRoTo: you've been 1upped by a TI-8400:24
lcukcrashanddie, SC == Sarcastic Cu??00:24
pupnikremember that twilight zone  episode "to serve man"?00:24
keriosecurity clearence?00:24
crashanddielcuk: what kerio said00:24
* lcuk was pulling leg00:24
keriolcuk: pull *this* leg00:24
lcukno ta00:25
crashanddie"That's not a cu.."00:25
lcukso this ps3 thing, are people raving because its finally got a game to play on it00:25
lcuk"i can unlock it"00:25
crashanddielcuk: nha, it's because they now can feel as poor as wii players00:25
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keriolcuk: "ps3 has no gamez lolol" is not true anymore00:26
crashanddie(who've had homebrew for ages)00:26
lcukidk whats top game on the ps3?00:26
keriobut of course, wii > ps300:26
keriolcuk: as of now... hmm00:26
keriomaybe uncharted 2?00:26
lcukas of ever00:26
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kerioand of course mgs400:26
* lcuk never heard of them00:26
crashanddielittle big planet?00:26
crashanddieheavy rain?00:26
lcuklittle bi gpl?00:26
* RST38h moos00:27
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lcukhey RST38h00:27
kerioµ, RST38h00:27
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keriolcuk: also this hack actually allows for true homebrews00:27
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RST38hheya lcuk, how are things?00:27
lcukkerio, i thought ps3 supported linux natively00:28
keriorelatively cheap Cell00:28
lcukRST38h, good i think00:28
keriolcuk: nope00:28
kerionot since 1st april00:28
keriofirmware "upgrade" removed the Other OS function00:28
tank-mansony removed OtherOS feature00:28
keriothat's what prompted this unlock00:28
RST38hyou think? hmmm...00:28
lcukRST38h, hammering liqflow inside livewp last couple of hours00:28
crashanddiemotorstorm? grand turismo? the elder scrolls? resistance 1 & 2? infamous? tekken 6? ratchet & clank? ninja gaiden? resident evil? god of war? street fighter? dead space? fallout? killzone, batman, bioshock, modern warfare... yeah, definitely no games available on PS300:29
lcukat first glance it runs just as smoothly as normal00:29
lcukbut behind all the icon00:29
keriocrashanddie: half of those are multiplatform00:29
* lcuk smiled broadly when i saw that00:29
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crashanddiewell, the linux on ps3 was a dud anyway00:30
crashanddiethe 3 guys who used it must be disappointed, sure...00:30
RST38hlcuk: so it should yea00:30
crashanddiekerio: well, the other half then :P00:30
johndoi just try to install some of the maemo developer tools on my n90000:31
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lcukRST38h, which side of the pond are you on atm?00:31
crashanddiemaemo has developer tools?00:31
johndosome i can install, but with otheres, e.g. less, i get a warning cannot authenticate package00:31
lcukjohndo, auth warnings come based on repository00:32
johndofrom the fremantle/tools repository00:32
johndoyes, but both packages are in the same repo00:32
lcukand the n900 itself is geared up to expect authenticated repos and packages afaik00:32
lcukits a warning..00:32
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lcuknot a blocker?00:32
lcukbut its on your head anyway :P00:32
DocScrutinizerMNZ: what's state of things with bi-quad filtering for hw EQ?00:32
johndoyeah, but i'm somewhat hesitate to install unauth packages ;)00:32
RST38hlcuk: west side00:32
crashanddiejohndo: are you on a network you don't trust?00:33
lcukjohndo, so wait, you rooted your machine, connected it to the official sdk repository and no others00:33
lcukthe same repo that everyone uses for their scratchbox00:33
lcukand same files00:33
johndoi just added the fremantle/tools repo00:33
crashanddiebreakage in sight00:34
johndoother repos are default only00:34
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lcukjohndo, ok, heres what you do00:34
lcukYou get an orangutan. I’m not talking a monkey or some dancing chimp BS, I mean a damn orangutan. Don’t ask me how you’re gonna get an orangutan that’s not my problem.00:35
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johndothanks for the hint xd00:35
lcukjohndo, don't install the files if you don't trust them.  simple as - follow the trail and trust your instinct00:36
johndoi don't install them00:36
lcukthen sorted :P00:36
lcukRST38h, are you there for long00:36
johndobut what makes me curous is that i can install one package from a repository (like screen) , but not another (like less)00:36
* crashanddie throws a lucky strike to lcuk00:36
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crashanddieOriginal Reeeeeed... It's Toasted!00:37
DocScrutinizerblargh  menthol00:37
RST38hlcuk: going back east side next week00:37
lcukjohndo, packages can be signed and unsigned and I believe its down to the uploader00:37
lcukRST38h, are you enjoying your visit thusfar?00:38
* DocScrutinizer rolls up some decent netherlands tobacco00:38
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johndooh, so the packages in the tools repo may not be signed?00:38
RST38hlcuk: It's ok00:38
lcuki grought back a box of 100 finnish cigars once00:38
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: drum?00:38
johndothat's allowed? ^^00:38
lcuki still have 99 finnish cigars somewhere00:38
* RST38h wonders what a finnish cigar is00:39
lcukRST38h, amusement value at the airport00:39
johndoany other safe way to get tools like less to the device?00:39
crashanddieRST38h: it's the things you pick up in the ashtray when other people are done with them00:39
johndothat more is so crippled does not even support a back key :(00:39
crashanddieRST38h: lcuk calls them cigars, we call them "cigarette butts"00:39
RST38hDo they roll those from bog moss or what?00:39
lcukjohndo, whats unsafe about  if you specifically feel there is a serious problem, then please raise a bug00:39
DocScrutinizer(finnish cigar)00:40
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: damn, I thought that was the next volcano00:40
johndohmm, i'm used from debian to trust only signed packages00:40
lcukthats good00:40
crashanddiejohndo: maemo is roughly based on debian, but somehow they forgot to implement the really good bits00:40
johndobut it's only a phone device, not a server, so ...00:41
lcukis there a command i can run to show which are signed/unsigned?00:41
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: probably the cigars are named after a smoking volcano00:41
johndoapt-get install package :P00:41
lcukand list them all from the sdk/tools repository ?00:41
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: could be00:41
lcukjohndo, not quite what I had in mind00:41
johndoi know, but i don't know a better command00:41
MNZDocScrutinizer, sorry was grabbing bite00:41
lcukjohndo, do you have a scratchbox install handy00:42
crashanddiesomehow I misread "bite" as "tits"00:42
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johndolcuk: no, only the n900 so far00:42
MNZDocScrutinizer, well, right now I'm more concentrated on getting hardware accelerated decoding and completely bypassing PA for headphone playback00:42
MNZI'm really close to building the damn code00:43
DocScrutinizerMNZ: first instance approach, looks like a job for a spreadsheet, to implement a PoC00:43
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MNZDocScrutinizer, yeah I found this, but this is only useful if you want to do presets00:43
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lcukless is from a different repo afaik00:43
MNZproblem is, we have only two 'points' or filters00:44
lcukjohndo, you will come up on other roadblocks if you expect full dev00:44
MNZfor an EQ, you would have to approximate the shape of the curve and use two filters to get a close shape00:44
lcukbuild-essential works, but dpkg-buildpackage doesnt00:44
lcukand autotools has a few hiccups needing more gnu tools00:44
MNZwhich is no easy task when you don't know what you are doing :/00:44
DocScrutinizerMNZ: hmm, lemme see if I can make sense of your words00:44
Macerdamn... nitdroid is good minus the lack of modem support00:44
Macertoo bad :)00:44
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Macerit's pretty awesome00:45
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johndolcuk: apt-cache policy tells me less and screen are from the same repository00:45
lcukwhich is..00:45
MNZDocScrutinizer, I really didn't understand anything until I read this
lcukand johndo i already said that its basesd on the package itself00:45
johndolcuk: at the moment i'm only interested in some tools, devel stuff may be later only00:45
lcukand not on the repo00:45
DocScrutinizerMNZ: you mean we only got one filter function implemented in hw, and we want to use it for bass and treble same time?00:46
mintuxhow can I disconnect my phone from network in command line ? suppose I connected via some connections I define . but I want to disconnect from cmd00:46
johndolcuk: was just in reply to your "less is from a different repository"00:46
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MNZDocScrutinizer, no, we have a fourth-order filter for the effects, which is made of 2 cascaded (ie, in series) biquads. So we basically have two biquads, so we can use two sets of coefficients to have two filters.00:47
DocScrutinizersounds fine, no?00:47
MNZnot really00:47
* lcuk has odd repository configuration hence asking you00:47
MNZyou can't really do a real EQ as far as I'm concerned00:48
MNZyou can only approximate00:48
MNZto get a feel for this you need the TI calculator and add two points and mess with them00:48
keriowe just need to avoid blowing up the speakers00:48
MNZkerio, no we are talking about the EQ00:48
johndowhen they have unsigned packages in the repo i may have to live with unauth packages00:48
MNZnot the highpass filtering thing00:48
kerioequalizers are for pussies00:49
mintuxhow to disconnect wifi from cmd in n90000:49
kerioifdown wlan000:49
MNZkerio, EQ rocks! HW EQ doubly so!00:49
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MNZDocScrutinizer, to understand me just get this (it's win32, runs fantastic in wine)
lcukjohndo, if you can specifically identify a list of them00:50
* DocScrutinizer scratches head00:50
lcukthen it may be possible to at least ask that something be done00:50
mintuxkerio: doesn't work. I connected from applet manger . not from commandline00:50
johndolcuk: good idea, will note all of them i run into00:51
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MNZDocScrutinizer, after you download it, enable exactly two points and mess with their settings (bandwidth/gain/type). Those are our constraints, two filters/points.00:51
lcukjohndo, great00:51
n900-dkDo any of you guys have trouble with Nokia Messaging today?00:51
n900-dkIt keeps aksing for my password00:51
lcukand i just tested, it is the same directly in scratchbox00:51
johndojust started with the n900, so maybe needs some time ;)00:51
lcukbut since the packages are uploaded as part of the SDK itself00:51
DocScrutinizerMNZ: maybe in that calculator00:51
lcukjohndo, you have a keen eye and such details are important00:52
johndolcuk: so you also get the warning about unauth in scratchbox?00:52
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johndook, good it's not only me00:52
lcukindeed, but please compile a list of those you find00:53
MNZDocScrutinizer, no, we really are constrained to two filters :D have you seen the equation of the filter in the datasheet? it's two huge brackets multiplied, each one of those can be considered a separate filter and takes it's own set of coefficients00:53
mintuxsudo ifconfig wlan0 down worked. but the wireless icon is on top and also the connected icon is light00:53
lcukand good luck with your n900 \o/00:53
lcukhope you enjoy it00:53
DocScrutinizerMNZ: for a usual treble/bass EQ I'd just pick the HPF and LPF of, and calculate the coefficients for the desired f0 and gain00:53
johndoyeah, i have nearly no experience with the n900, but it's a kind of debian on it :)00:53
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lcukcrashanddie, liqflow flowing behind desktops on multiple machines o_O00:53
MNZDocScrutinizer, oh, if we want just a simple 2 band EQ then yeah.... can be done00:54
n900-dkStupid NM :(00:54
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johndolcuk: i do so far, only the battery is somewhat weak :(00:54
lcukdepends what you do with it00:54
lcukbut yeah a housebrick and 4months of uptime would be nice00:55
DocScrutinizerMNZ: what I say... :-D00:55
MNZDocScrutinizer, I was over-complicating things a bit... my idea was for a 6 (or even 12) band eq, and we smooth the 'curve' created by it and use two filters to achieve something similar00:55
lcukhow much juice do fuelcells give?00:55
lcukalcoholic n90000:55
DocScrutinizerMNZ: that's theoretically feasible, but meh, my head hurts00:56
lcukI will have a pint and my n900 will have a vodka and coke00:56
MNZDocScrutinizer, exactly. I had my head hurting for about two days when I realized it's going to take a bunch more reading than what I've done :S00:56
johndoeeek, a coke00:56
johndopoor n90000:56
MNZDocScrutinizer, ok, so I can do a bass/treble thing for starters00:56
DocScrutinizerGREAT! :-DDD00:56
keriojohndo: OMG00:57
MNZDocScrutinizer, like I said though, right now I'm building TI's code for using the audio/video hw accel. It looks promising!00:57
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lcuklol jo00:59
lcukjohndo, ^00:59
lolloohi all00:59
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mintuxautodisconnect app is binary or script ?01:00
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johndomintux: binary01:02
mintuxjohndo: I need to disconnect wifi from ssh in my pc . but I don't know how can I do that01:03
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johndomintux: ifdown wlan0 doesn't do the job?01:04
DocScrutinizermintux: try `rmmod wl12xx.ko`01:04
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johndocan you remove a module while it's in use on the n900?01:05
DocScrutinizerafter ifdown it shouldn't be in use anymore?01:05
mintux johndo:it worked . but the wifi icon doesn't disappear and seems is connected01:05
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ad-n770I'm trying to find which is the max sample rate that is available in the audio card of n80001:06
mintuxDocScrutinizer: what is rmmod wl12xx.ko ?01:06
ad-n770do you know whre it could be documented?01:06
mintuxwhat is wl12xx.ko ?01:06
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DocScrutinizerit's not my idea to do rmmod, I only seen it at some places01:06
mintuxDocScrutinizer: what happens after that ?01:06
johndoanybody knows if the gui package manager on the n900 uses apt as it's backend? so that it would support preferences?01:06
DocScrutinizermintux: wl12xx is the wlan driver01:06
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DocScrutinizerjohndo: HAM is using apt as a backend, yes01:07
mintuxif I can disappear wifi icon beside antenna icon . my problem will solve01:07
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mintuxmeans after ifconfig ifdown disappear wifi icon01:08
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DocScrutinizermintux: try this as well:
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DocScrutinizermintux: also check this (/me curses wiki server sluggish like molasses once more):
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DocScrutinizermintux: if this works for you, it'd be nice of you to edit above linked wiki page, to share your findings (also about whether it affects the wifi icon in systray etc)01:18
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mintuxok thanks01:20
john_n900n900 irssi :D01:21
john_n900i more and more love this toy01:21
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johndowhat are the signs when the kernel voltage settings of an n900 are too low?01:28
johndoare they obvious like crashes or more subtle?01:28
_trinejohndo, it crashes01:30
johndoi'm at the "starving" settings now and anything seems to work properly, that's suspicious ^^01:30
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DocScrutinizerjohndo: the likelihood for segfaults or any other kind of odd behaviour just rises01:30
_trineI use starving on my phone and its works perfectly however if I try it on my wifes phone it crashes in a short time01:31
johndojust wanted to go down until it crashes and the go one or two steps back01:31
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johndodoes lowering these voltage settings help much for battery life or has it a rather small effect?01:32
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_trinejohndo, are you overclocking at the same time01:33
DocScrutinizerjohndo: despite it's digital, every electronics is an analog system in the end. While with correct core voltage you may see one false computation during 10^5years of operation, it rises to 1 false op during hours or minutes, with increasingly lower voltage01:33
johndo_trine: no, no overclocking01:33
johndoso far it seems fast enough, i just wanted to get a longer battery life01:34
DocScrutinizerjohndo: read my above comment carefully, think about it, and then rethink your plan of "go down until crah, then one or two steps up"01:34
johndoDocScrutinizer: yeah, doesn't sound good01:34
johndoso keep my fingers away from it and switch back to default?01:34
_trinejohndo, with these phones because they are so variable in there manufacture its simply a case of suck it and see01:35
johndoi just was surprised that the kinda recommended set "ideal" had even overclocking to 850 MHz in it01:35
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johnxit depends on whether you're ok with your phone crashing out randomly (potentially corrupting data) in the pursuit of longer battery life01:35
DocScrutinizer_trine: and who told you about that variability in manufacture?01:36
johnxif you say "yes" to that, then by all means, go as low as you can01:36
_trineDocScrutinizer, its plainly bloody obvious no one needs to tell me01:36
johndojohnx: well, i just wanted both :D01:36
johndobut i guess i have to find the compromise by myself :)01:37
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DocScrutinizeraah, ok then. I'm still amazed how much you can learn from non-EE in IRC, even after 40 years of profeesional experience01:37
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_trinethe manufacturing process is very broad to say the least01:37
johnxkeep in mind that an error in the wrong place might not manifest as a crash. it might manifest as corrupted data being saved01:37
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jophishhowdy all!01:38
johnxhallo jophish01:38
johndojohnx: yeah, and the data partition is a FAT filesystem :(01:38
DocScrutinizer_trine: many thanks for educating me :-P01:39
_trineDocScrutinizer, sarcasm is not one of your better attributes01:39
jophishI'm trying to get bluetooth dial up working. I am stumped as to how to use ppponfig though. I don't know where I cn get the information for my provider.I'm using t-mobile UK, with a 3 plan01:39
jophishI'm running debian on my computer01:40
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_trinehowever I love my N90001:42
_trineif I could run it at 2300 MHz instead of 1150 I would and when/if it failed I would just buy another01:44
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DocScrutinizerjophish: have you bothered to even *check* how much (or probably little) gain in battery life undervolting will buy you? Not by gut feeling based random numbers made up, but by using e.g script to get exact numbers of power consumption during doing heavy calculations or video playback, and then comparing same situation one time with undervolt and one time with stock settings01:44
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DocScrutinizererr sorry jophish01:45
jophishDocScrutinizer: I haven't looked into that, but _trine might have01:45
DocScrutinizerjohndo: ^^^ for you01:45
medohello people01:45
johnxjophish, are you following a guide that told you to use pppconfig? could you give us a link? I got it setup correctly on ubuntu, but that was with networkmanager01:45
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medodoes anyone know if the 3g video calls will be supported01:45
jophishjohnx: I have been following this:
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medoor a programmer is working on it01:46
jophishbut I have discovered that the gnome networknamager has something similar01:46
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ShadowJKoverall undervolting should have a minimal impact, since the voltage is 0V duriing the vast majority of time N900 is on..01:46
johnxyeah. if you're running gnome on debian, I'd follow the ubuntu guide01:46
DocScrutinizerjohndo: probably you'll find it's absolutely not worth it01:46
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_trineaircrack-ng is wonderful on an N90001:46
johndoDocScrutinizer: no, that's why i was asking01:46
ShadowJKunless you've got something crap installed consuming cpu, of course01:46
johndoi did not even found a trustworthy powertop so far01:46
jophishbut It filled in the wrong information by default, and I am not eager to get tmobile charging me for trying to use a data plan I didn' pay for01:46
medoare you following01:47
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medoany help here01:48
SpeedEviljophish: where ar eyou?01:48
jophishSpeedEvil: I'm in the uk01:48
SpeedEviljophish: I haver t-mobile PAYG + 6 mo internet booster.01:49
jophishlooking at the information on the phone, the username is t-mobile, and the password is two characters long01:49
SpeedEvilWorks well.01:49
jophishSpeedEvil: have you go that working with tethering?01:49
johndoShadowJK: so the n900 has real cpu sleep mode or however that is called and not only switch back to min frequency?01:50
johndothen it probably doesn't gain much01:50
DocScrutinizerjohndo: it does zero-clock01:50
SpeedEviljophish: yes01:50
johndois there any way to find out how much time it spends in that mode?01:50
SpeedEviljophish: password 'web'01:50
SpeedEviljophish: and web01:51
johndoi only found the time spend in diff frequencies so far01:51
DocScrutinizerjohndo: powertop01:51
medois frals here?01:51
medois frals here?01:51
jophishSpeedEvil: looking on the phone, it is only two characters long though01:51
jophishis the username t-mobile?01:51
johndoha, again that what i dont have01:51
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medoare you here?01:51
SpeedEvilI need to fix it01:51
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medoanswer me01:51
johndois the binary in the forum thread trustworthy?01:51
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medoi need to talk to frals01:52
medowhy don't you answer01:52
DocScrutinizermedo, if nobody got an answer, you'll probably not want 483 users answering "medo, sorry, but no"01:52
DocScrutinizermedo: now stop spamming the channel01:52
SpeedEviljohndo: It seems to work for any password01:52
medothanks doc01:53
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DocScrutinizermedo: t help you out of your pain:01:56
DocScrutinizer~seen frals01:56
infobotfrals is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 7h 24m 29s, last said: 'haha'.01:56
medoyou have been a great help01:57
medothanks a lot01:57
medohow can i follow him on this channel01:57
DocScrutinizermedo: set a highlight on <frals> in your irc client01:58
DocScrutinizeror simply /query frals01:58
ShadowJKjohndo: my binary has sha1sum 5426e35133941c100e1de582e174c219bbbb479901:58
ShadowJKI took it from the firmware image that had powertop before it was removed01:59
medoDocScrutinizer, you are the man01:59
johndois a higher cpuidle state more or less power consumption? it seem to have state 0 to 301:59
johndoShadowJK: thanks, i'll check the one from the thread01:59
jacekowskiiirc higher == less power01:59
medodo you have any idea about the 3g video calls for the n900?02:00
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DocScrutinizermedo: nope, otherwise I had answered your question02:00
medoyou are totally right02:00
ShadowJKjohndo: 0 is higher02:01
medofrals is not answering me02:01
ShadowJKC4 in powertop is clock off voltage off02:01
medoi have some ideas for his fmms program02:01
johndoShadowJK: i just found the files in the /sys tree02:01
ShadowJKyeahl there's one set of numbers that apply for active and oner set of numbers for sleep02:02
johndoabout 3% in stage 0, 10% in stage 1, 10% in s2 and 77% in s302:02
johndoduring the last day or so02:03
johndoi guess the numbers are since last reboot02:03
ShadowJK/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpuidle/* ?02:03
johndo.. stageX/time02:04
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SpeedEviljohndo - get powertop02:04
johndoi'm on it :)02:04
SpeedEvilSee above page for explanation02:04
ShadowJKstat3/name C4, if it's 77 percent, that's good02:04
SpeedEvilAlso - you don't care about it.02:04
SpeedEvilLook at the power consumption number - with that script.02:05
SpeedEvilAnd how it changes over time.02:05
johndoSpeedEvil: whith that script? sory, must have missed something02:05
johndothat bq27200?02:06
medo~seen dalal02:06
infoboti haven't seen 'dalal', medo02:06
DocScrutinizersee an example listing I posted at end of that wikipage, under random adds02:06
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DocScrutinizeroops, that's been
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johndois there any way to get the FAT partition remounted while the USB cable still is connected?02:25
johndothe FAT partition is umounted remotely already02:25
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SpeedEvilunplug the far end of the cable.02:26
johndoSpeedEvil: ah, the far end, good idea :D02:26
johndojust don't wanted to unplug the n900 side every time ..02:27
SpeedEvilYou can also cut off the little 'lugs' on the n900 connector to reduce insertion force.02:27
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jacekowskii really like hdmi connector02:29
jacekowskisocket and plug02:29
jacekowskilooks robust02:30
* raster wonders how well nokia test the gl-es drivers ont he n90002:30
jacekowskireally robust compared to all recent connectors02:30
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johndothat powertop is quite different from the debian one at the pc02:34
johnxARM is quite different from X86 :)02:34
johndodoesn't look good if i understand it right, 10% C0, 90% C202:34
johndono C4 :(02:34
jacekowskiboth are made of silicon02:35
jacekowskiand transistors02:35
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johndo250 wakeups per seconds, is that normal? sounds much02:38
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jacekowskijohndo: nah, that's ok02:39
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SpeedEvilRead the caveats on the above page johndo02:39
johndoSpeedEvil: you mean ?02:40
SpeedEvilI need to finish off that02:41
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johndoSpeedEvil: these numbers are very interesting02:47
tobis87SpeedEvil: Do you think reverting this patch, would increase throughput even more?
johndoso switching GSM or WiFi off doesn't gain much when it's idle, suspend seems to work very well02:47
johndowhere do I get that bq27200 script from? is it in the pdf?02:48
SpeedEviljohndo: no. you copy and paste it from the page02:48
SpeedEviltobis87: no idea, sorry02:49
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johndohmm, i'm too blind, there is no script02:49
johndo ?02:49
SpeedEviljohndo: oh - that's not there.02:50
SpeedEvilThe script mentioned only gives more info on the battery state - it's not importantr for instantaneous power consumptrion use.02:50
SpeedEvilAnd indeed uses extra power.02:51
SpeedEvilRun the script on that page under screen, and you will see ~6mA or so with it idle.02:51
SpeedEvilAnd not actively using wifi02:51
SpeedEvilIf you don't have any battery eating stuff installed.02:51
tobis87There is an article on optimizing aes for arm7, it is not directly related to twofish of course, but they also test aes with unrolled functions:
johndoSpeedEvil: sorry, cannot follow you, I don't see how I can get these numbers for the current consumption of the device02:54
SpeedEviloh - right02:54
SpeedEvilI missed rthat you were referring to a different page.02:54
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SpeedEvilI hope to polish that script some more, add some user-friendliness, and ship it to extras soon.02:55
johndoSpeedEvil: ah, that looks better, thanks :)02:55
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johndolooks like the old powertop does not fit very well for PR 1.2 or the community kernel02:57
SpeedEvil1.2 is fine02:57
SpeedEvilit is confused by more freqs02:58
johndoeven when they are not active? I have min 250 and max 600 too02:58
johndoso the community kernel from Extras is not recommended?02:59
SpeedEvilIt confuses powertop03:01
SpeedEvilthis is not a reason not to use it03:01
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DocScrutinizerpowertop is a tool very close to kernel internals, so it should be compiled for the kernel it is used for. A powertop for stock kernel obviously doesn't match power kernel perfectly03:18
* satmd disgrees03:21
satmdas long as you have recent kernel headers, you're fine03:21
satmdit can decide which features to use during run-time03:22
satmdit plain simple looks in /proc and /sys ;)03:22
johndothe powertop version from PR 1.1 (?) quite obviously gets confused on my device03:23
johndothe C states are messed up03:23
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johndodoes the "default" parameter set for the power kernel conforms to the original settings of the nokia kernel?03:25
johndoi cannot get the divice down to the 6mA, the minimum i get is about 25mA with GSM, WiFi, BT and display off03:26
SpeedEviljohndo: I need to recheck my numbers.03:27
SpeedEvilBut I will note that I have had 100h battery03:27
SpeedEvilwhich is around 12mA03:27
johndoI rather would doubt in my numbers for now, not in yours ;)03:28
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SpeedEvilHow were you connectring to the system?03:29
johndoi just do a sleep 30; cat /sys/..../current_now and switch off the screen on the right side, than wait for the number03:29
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johndoand get about 130 .. 14003:30
SpeedEvilyou know that it's not mA?03:30
johndothat's about 20 to 25 mA, right?03:30
SpeedEvilI don't recall03:30
johndo`$current_read` * 3570 / 22 / 100003:31
johndofrom the script03:31
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SpeedEvilAlso - sometimes for no good reason it can start using more battery03:34
johndowhere is a good place to put own srcipts and bins to on the device without conflicting with the internal package managemant?03:35
johndoseems i cannot chmod +x on the FAT partition :(03:35
SpeedEvil /usr/local/bin03:35
SpeedEvilI add /usr/local/bin - which is a symlink to /home/usr/local/bin03:36
johndothat will be ignored by the package management? ok03:36
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MNZshit is built! I finally got it all built!!!! I think I'm gonna cry :')03:43
MNZNow to testing. This is either going to be EPIC WIN or EPIC FAIL.03:44
MNZnothing in between unfortunately03:44
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SpeedEvilIt could explode in a really cool way03:48
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MNZSpeedEvil, well no, no explosions. Not today at least ;)03:48
MNZthe epic fail will be if I spent all this time and it doesn't work03:49
johndoSpeedEvil: I also have much more events than you, about 70 events/sec03:54
johndoprocesses which are consuming CPU are hildon-desktop (about 7%) and Xorg (about 1%)03:55
MNZjohndo, you have catorise?03:55
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johndothinking about apps .. could it be that the little cpu & memory meter causes that load?03:55
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johndoMNZ: that's the subfolder app for the application manu, right? does it use any CPU?03:56
MNZthere's a rather cool hildon-desktop bug, it's stuck in an endless loop and will not stop consuming ~5% cpu03:56
MNZyou need to update hildon-desktop03:57
MNZor stop using catorise03:57
johndoonly when you have that catorise installed?03:57
MNZit's not really catorise's fault03:57
MNZit only triggers when your main menu is less than 1 page and doesn't require scrolling03:57
MNZthe 'bounce' animation starts and it never ends. And you don't actually see it.03:58
johndonice one :)03:58
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MNZand the moment of truth. Now either the kernel crashes and dies, or nothing happens.....04:02
MNZor of course.... it simply doesn't load :@04:04
MNZah... need to flash kernel... bleh04:04
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johndolooks like that hildon-desktop package is a nokia one04:07
johndowhere from do i get a more recent version of that package?04:07
MNZit's only available through a community repo, or you could build it from git04:08
MNZhold on04:08
johndooops, build and git .. i do not have a devel environment for the n900 so far ;)04:08
johndoand i do still not know how to flash .. ;)04:09
MNZno need to build04:09
MNZthere, just download that and open through filemanager04:09
johndohmm, that put my device into beta test stage then?04:10
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MNZjohndo, what does that mean?04:10
johndoi rather get rid of the catorise, i go into holidays naxt weak and need the device to work :)04:11
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MNZdon't worry it works perfectly04:11
MNZI've been using it for a few weeks04:11
MNZand so have many others04:11
johndothat package from your url is stable quality or still testing ?04:11
MNZit's technically 'testing' but practically it's stable04:12
johndook, i'll download it and think about it until tomorrow :)04:12
johndoit's too late today anyway04:12
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johndothank you guys for all your hints04:13
johndoi'm quite sure I'll come back and ask more stupid questions :P04:14
johndobut not today04:14
MNZbye o/04:14
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pupnik  << Amazing! >> Matt Whilhelm's BMX flatland artistry04:16
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TiagoTiagodo know of a way to make it so the /home and MyDocs partitons' sizes are dynamic, like, both share the same free space and if you fill it in one of them the other also sees the freespace disapearing, and if you free space in one both seee the new free space?04:31
Ken-YoungTiagoTiago, I think the way to do that would be to repartition, and make /home and MyDocs be in the same partition.04:32
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nox-tho then you couldnt export it via usb mass storage anymore (at least)04:33
ShadowJKThen you'd of course lose windows/mac/whatever compatibility04:33
TiagoTiagoi imagine it could be done making the partitons actually be regular files in a third partition with some program or driver tricking the system into seeing them as partitoins, files can easilly grow and shrink04:33
TiagoTiagoisn't there an issue with the camera and a few otherr hings when you don't have a vfat partition avaiable?04:34
johndojust for the record, I removed catorise to test, now I get 2 to 5 events/sec and a current usage of 4 to 5 mA :D04:34
nox-TiagoTiago, that may very well too04:35
johndolooking forward to the 100 hour battery lifetime ^^04:35
nox-well be04:35
TiagoTiagoyou're saying catorise keeps running in the bckground unecessarlly.04:35
ShadowJKjohndo, you'll have multiday batterylife with that04:35
ShadowJKcatorise is known battery killer btw04:36
MNZit's not catorise04:36
MNZ<MNZ> it's not really catorise's fault04:36
MNZ<MNZ> it only triggers when your main menu is less than 1 page and doesn't require scrolling04:36
MNZ<MNZ> the 'bounce' animation starts and it never ends. And you don't actually see it.04:36
johndoTiagoTiago: no, got the hint that it's a hildon-desktop bug which get triggered by catorise04:36
TiagoTiagoDoes Truecrypt allows for files holding the image growing and shrinking?04:36
johndothanks to MNZ :)04:37
johndonow I'm gone for real, bye bye04:37
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TiagoTiagocan you add like 3-6 folders more for catorise and work around the bug?04:38
DocScrutinizerMNZ: WTF?04:38
MNZTiagoTiago, I'd imagine you cannot really solve optification by adding another layer of complexity. It'd be rather ironic04:38
MNZDocScrutinizer, you never heard of this bug?04:38
MNZheh, this was probably the first thing that got me on #maemo :D04:38
MNZit's fixed since04:38
TiagoTiagothere gotta be a program/driver that works like how i described04:39
MNZand fix is in MohammadAG51's repo04:39
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MNZTiagoTiago, install this update
TiagoTiagoactually it sounds like somthing that might even come with most zLinux distros....04:39
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ShadowJKTiagoTiago, well the only sensible way would be to use filesystems designed to handle resizing quickly, but then you're back to losing the original point of having a separate vfat partition in the first place04:40
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TiagoTiagoit's not possible to have a vfat that can be rfedimensioned on the fly?04:40
DocScrutinizerMNZ: what's the fix?04:41
ShadowJKtiagotiago: it takes ages to do it04:41
MNZDocScrutinizer, madam fixed the animation, it's in git, and the hildon-desktop in mohammad's ssu has it.
DocScrutinizerMNZ: ooh, ok04:42
TiagoTiagoif resizing isn't possible, then add a imaginary file that is an MB or so smaller than the avaible free space and change itms size when the amount of free space changes04:42
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DocScrutinizerI'll simply go for the deb04:42
MNZDocScrutinizer, this is weird, if you were experiencing the bug then you would have definitely noticed04:43
TiagoTiagoi'll not install it right now 'cause i' probably gonna be reflashing today or in the next few days04:43
DocScrutinizerMNZ: you're sure?04:43
MNZbattery time is down to like 8 hours :/04:43
MNZit's a constant 5-7% cpu by hildon-desktop04:43
TiagoTiagoi've seen infinite bouncing on microB a few times, though that was more loike jitter than bounce04:43
DocScrutinizerMNZ: I rarely are off charger for >2..3h04:43
DocScrutinizer51MNZ: 5percent hd sounds familiar04:44
DocScrutinizer51hd 7% 2h+04:46
DocScrutinizer51'update not possible, program not compatible' :-/04:48
DocScrutinizer51seems it's not optimized for HAM04:48
MNZah, dpkg is your friend04:48
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PhonicUKhey, is MohammedAG around?04:49
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MNZPhonicUK, sound asleep04:50
PhonicUKhas anyone got PSFreedom to work on their N900?04:50
MNZKaKaRoTo, ping04:50
KaKaRoToMNZ, yeah04:50
MNZKaadlajk, kalem ya 3am04:50
MNZKaKaRoTo, err I think PhonicUK has a question for you04:51
KaKaRoToMNZ, ah ok, thx04:51
KaKaRoToPhonicUK, yes, tons of people, follow the instructions and it should just work..04:51
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PhonicUKI'm getting this error when I try to use it: "Invalid module format"04:52
KaKaRoToPhonicUK, make sure your ps3 is version 3.41 or it won't work04:52
KaKaRoToPhonicUK, so you use the power kernel or something.. the binary available is for stock kernel only...04:52
KaKaRoToPhonicUK, be patient, others are currently building the module for the power kernel04:52
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PhonicUKok, cheers04:52
PhonicUKjust gonna check PS3 firmware verison04:52
PhonicUKhas it been patched out of newer firmwares already?04:52
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PhonicUKah good im on 3.41 :)04:55
KaKaRoToPhonicUK, no new firmware, 3.41 is the latest04:55
KaKaRoToPhonicUK, but many people haven't updated since 3.15 (since linux support was removed)04:56
PhonicUKi have a slim anyway04:56
KaKaRoToand since the exploit overwrites functions in memory, it's specific to the firmware 3.4104:56
PhonicUKno supprises04:56
KaKaRoTobut someone is working on finding the right memory offset to overwrite to make it 3.15 compatible04:56
PhonicUKi just need to remove the power user kernel04:56
PhonicUKi wonder if this will lead to running Linux on the slim04:56
DocScrutinizer51MNZ: think I'll need a HDM restart aka reboot04:56
MNZDocScrutinizer51, no, just killall hildon-desktop04:57
MNZupstart should reload it for ya, good as new04:57
MNZmodules loaded successfully!!! I'm now about to try hw accelerated video!04:59
TiagoTiago_ <-thread rerquesting that virtual partitions sharing free space thing04:59
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DocScrutinizer51MNZ: nice. HDM 0%05:03
MNZMNZ, gratz :D05:04
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PhonicUKi just bricked my N90005:04
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TiagoTiago_permanet or you can still solve it with a reflash?05:05
PhonicUKi think it just needs its kernel flashing05:06
TiagoTiago_could be worse05:06
PhonicUKcan i flash the kernel without removing the contents of the root filesystem?05:06
TiagoTiago_there is an option qith the flasher for lfashing kernel only, but i dunwhat exactly it considers as being the kernel05:07
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caotichas anyone wine the Nokia pc suite on linux ? I want tom do some contact management, but I was wondering if the wined up suite is worth it05:09
TiagoTiago_does anyone got a link handy for the thread about reflashing changing the sizes of the partitions?05:09
TiagoTiago_Ovi Suite is bprobably better for usiing with the N90005:10
PhonicUKis there no reflasher for 64-bit systems? :(05:10
caoticTiagoTiago_: have you ran it under linux ?05:10
TiagoTiago_nope, sorry05:10
PhonicUKbrb, gotta reboot05:11
TiagoTiago_good luck05:11
MNZthe 32 bit flasher works fine05:11
PhonicUKneed to disable driver signing xD05:11
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MNZeh, windoze05:12
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: wasn't that you who was advised to bookmark ?05:13
TiagoTiagoah, that was about that? ok05:14
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PhonicUKok back05:15
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n900-spacehi all05:17
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PhonicUKthere is indeed a kernel only option :)05:18
PhonicUKdownloading the image05:18
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PhonicUKi think i have to run flasher as admin xD05:32
PhonicUKnope no help :\05:33
PhonicUK"Suitable USB device not found, waiting."05:33
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TiagoTiagodid you boot the N900  holding the U key?05:37
TiagoTiagowait, no05:37
TiagoTiagoi think it's having it shutdown, then hold U and plug the USB and wait05:38
PhonicUKyeah i did05:39
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TiagoTiagounplug and try again?05:39
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PhonicUKno dice05:40
PhonicUKwindows says that there is a Nokia N900 (Update Mode) present05:40
MNZmeh I'm off05:40
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TiagoTiagois there enough charge?05:40
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PhonicUKyes, its full05:41
TiagoTiagohm, that one didn't show when i did my reflaash, but then it was kinda messed up05:41
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TiagoTiagoare you sure you're plugging it in a 2.0 port?05:41
PhonicUKgonna try rebooting again05:42
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TiagoTiagois there a way i can follow the instructions on th5 joerg page without having to boot Linux on my desktop?05:43
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DocScrutinizer51dunno, what's windows?05:43
DocScrutinizer51there are actually other OS than unixoid ones?05:44
TiagoTiagoah, lol05:44
DocScrutinizer51sorry, no idea05:44
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DocScrutinizer51TiagoTiago: I guess if you find a decent hexeditor, then you can changemthe string '2048' this way05:46
PhonicUKok lets try this again...05:46
TiagoTiagoi see05:46
TiagoTiagoso it's supposed to only have that in one place in the whole file?05:47
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PhonicUKffs why wont it work :(05:49
TiagoTiagohm, it's not the same file as the one used to flash the kernel, is it?05:49
DocScrutinizer51and the context is quite speeaking05:49
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PhonicUKit refuses to start flashing05:49
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DocScrutinizer51no, it's vanilla eMMC05:49
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PhonicUKhas anyone ever managed to flash on a 64-bit system :(05:50
TiagoTiagodifferent file, ok05:50
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DocScrutinizer51PhonicUK: windows? often a reboot helps, to reset the USB05:51
PhonicUKi have done, twice now05:51
PhonicUKaah hangon05:51
TiagoTiagoi think i saw a link for doing it in 64bits Windows in the wiki, not sure05:51
PhonicUKreboot time05:52
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DocScrutinizer51really, I'd prefer booting a linux live CD all days05:54
DocScrutinizer51each day even05:54
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TiagoTiagoit's only the first box in that page that is about the refllashing with bigger /home ?05:54
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PhonicUKstupid sodding flasher tool :(05:58
DocScrutinizer51stupid OS05:59
PhonicUKOS is fine, if people would write proper drivers for it :P05:59
PhonicUKhell they don't even support 64-bit linux :\06:00
PhonicUKand i have no 32 bit machines06:00
doc|homeanyone having the default media player cut out after playing part way through a song. Happens intermittently but more often than it should :/06:00
doc|homenothing else happening on the device06:01
TiagoTiago64bits systems are only ahead of ipv606:01
* luke-jr teases PhonicUK with his 64-bit flasher06:02
luke-jrPhonicUK: too bad I can't redistribute it legally, eh?06:02
DocScrutinizer5164bit linux works with flasher, you just need a few libs06:02
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: in other words, you need to install a 32-bit OS06:02
luke-jrPhonicUK: it's copyrighted06:02
PhonicUKso why do you have it?06:03
luke-jrI downloaded it when Nokia distributed it06:03
PhonicUKany idea why they dont any more?06:03
luke-jrno idea. Lazy?06:03
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luke-jrthis is version 3.0. the one Nokia has now is 3.506:03
luke-jrprobably they didn't build a 64-bit 3.506:03
PhonicUKi should sodomize them with a cactus06:04
PhonicUKits funny, up until a couple of weeks ago i worked for nokia xD06:04
luke-jrshoulda compiled a copy06:05
PhonicUKdidnt have access to that stuff06:05
PhonicUKwasnt working with handsets06:05
luke-jrif you can't leak SGX drivers, we don't care about you.06:05
luke-jrsource I mean06:05
PhonicUKlooks like im just gonna have to build  a 32-bit VM and do it in the morning06:06
luke-jra chroot would do06:06
luke-jrjust grab a Gentoo stage3 tar.bz2, chroot, and run?06:06
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PhonicUKno linux systems to hand at the moment06:06
luke-jrtake all of 5 minutes06:06
luke-jrwho uses anything other than Linux?06:06
PhonicUKgamers :P06:07
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PhonicUKlinux support for my GTX480 is terrible06:07
luke-jrso buy supported video cards06:07
PhonicUKand no 3D Vision / PhysX support either06:07
DocScrutinizer51oh yes, USB in a VM. That sounds like a plan to cure native USB problems06:07
luke-jras if any of that crap matters…06:07
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: LOL06:07
PhonicUKi  have a 3D visions setup... :P06:07
PhonicUKmy choice of OS shouldn't dicate my hardware, so i use what supports my hardware06:08
PhonicUKi love linux (gentoo fan)06:08
luke-jrsure it should06:08
PhonicUKbut its a pain in the ass when I actually wanna get stuff done06:08
luke-jrhardware exists to run the OS06:08
PhonicUKthe OS exists to control the hardware06:08
TiagoTiagodoes the touch sensor only coves the display area or with the right driver it might be possible to capture touches outside of the screen?06:08
luke-jrno, the OS exists to let you do crap06:08
PhonicUKeitherway, if an OS doesn't support the hardware I already have, im not going to use it am i06:09
luke-jrI would.06:09
PhonicUKmy GTX480 rips anything that works under linux to shreds06:09
PhonicUKmaybe nvidia will get their act together again on drivers though06:09
DocScrutinizer51TiagoTiago: the driver senses touches some mm outside the screen right now06:09
luke-jrPhonicUK: again? nVidia's *never* had their act together06:10
luke-jrI wouldn't take nVidia if you bought it for me06:10
PhonicUKtheir act has been a darn sight better than ATi's ever has been06:10
luke-jrwell, I'd take it… but then just put it on ebay06:10
PhonicUKwho up untill the last 18 months couldnt match their windows performace under linux06:10
luke-jrat least ATi *has* an act06:11
PhonicUKyeah and i just booed it off stage06:11
luke-jrnVidia just leaves Linux developers to reverse engineer everything06:11
TiagoTiagowhere? how much? would it be possible for example to assign the right side of the face as scrolling or zooming?06:11
luke-jranyhow, this is getting rather off-topic06:11
PhonicUKthe nvidia binary driver works brilliantly for any cards it supports :P06:11
luke-jrand TiagoTiago has something N900-related to talk about06:11
asjluke-jr, PhonicUK: hey guys, is emacs or vi better?06:11
PhonicUKive never had a problem06:11
luke-jrPhonicUK: illegal OS combinations don't count.06:11
luke-jrasj: vi06:12
PhonicUKneither of them is better - just depends which you need at the time06:12
PhonicUKi generally prefer vi though06:12
luke-jrasj: but I'm biased-- never seen or touched emacs06:12
PhonicUKnano if im feeling laze06:12
luke-jrI generally type nano out of habit06:12
luke-jrfor larger projects I use Kate06:12
PhonicUKCode::Blocks ftw06:13
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PhonicUKnight all06:15
DocScrutinizer51k, mcedit06:16
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TiagoTiagodo i need to edit it in an hex editor or just a regular text editor will do?06:17
n900-spacewhat are your editing?06:17
TiagoTiagothe vanilla emmc image to increase the sizee of /home06:18
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n900-spacei didnt know that shud be done and for it should be done06:18
n900-spacebut yes, hex editor06:18
DocScrutinizer51normal text editor will probably explode06:18
woodong50____good afternoon06:18
n900-spacetext editor wont do at all06:18
TiagoTiagowhy is it got "size = 2048" in plain text?06:19
TiagoTiagowhy if it*06:19
woodong50____it is possible to sniff on n90006:19
DocScrutinizer51just because06:19
n900-spaceyou mean if you can find 2048 in form a text, you shud be able to change it with a text editor?06:19
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DocScrutinizer51try, fail, think, use hexeditor06:21
TiagoTiagowhat would be different if i changed it with a regular text editor?06:21
DocScrutinizer51maybe the auto linebreaks? the tabs converted to spaces? the nonprintable chars that a normal editor can't cope with?06:22
DocScrutinizer51the lines >10k chars?06:23
DocScrutinizer51try, fail, think, use hexeditor06:23
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TiagoTiagoat what point am i expecteed to fail?06:26
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DocScrutinizer51where in 'try, fail, think, use hexeditor' was mentioned to ask for a proffesional multipage paper with an analysis of a idiotic plan based on a idiotic OS?06:29
ieatlintyeah, you can't realistically use a text editor to edit any binary file06:29
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ieatlint(and binary files often contain plain text)06:29
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TiagoTiagowhat if i used vim?06:30
ieatlintvim is a text editor06:30
DocScrutinizer51TiagoTiago: that's been the most reasonable one of your last few dozen postings06:32
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sevardHi guys06:35
sevarddoes anyone use a car mount with their n810?06:35
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luke-jrunlikely, the GPS is too unreliable06:36
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sevardFor some reason I have the holder, that the n810 snaps into with this weird circular adapter on the back.06:36
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luke-jrsevard: that comes with N81006:36
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sevardso there wasn't some suction cup thing that connects into the round connector that i'm missing?06:36
luke-jrthere is06:36
luke-jrnot included06:36
sevarddoes it have a name or part number06:36
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sevardi have an n810 and a blackberry tour06:38
* ShadowJK used the car mount for his n810 until wayfinder stopped working06:38
sevardthe n810's gps radio sucks.  the blackberry's gps applications suck.06:38
sevardit would be awesome to marry the two ;)  to somehow have navit use the blackberry's gps.06:39
ShadowJKMy N810 usually acquired a lock in 30 seconds without a-gps :)06:39
ShadowJKin the car06:39
ShadowJKwith agps enabled it was instant06:40
sevardit takes my n810 about 25 minutes to acquire a signal06:40
DocScrutinizer51yeah, what's wrong with N810 GPS hw?06:40
DocScrutinizer51just WFM06:40
sevardmy blackberry does cell-gps instantly, and locks down to 4 meters in about 20 seconds06:40
sevardit would be rad to use the blackberry's gps radio with the nokia via bt or something.06:41
ShadowJKoh if gpsd or gpsdriver crashes, it doesn't tell you and never recovers :-)06:41
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ShadowJKI had a suction-sup + universal holder thing before. I had bought it a few years before N810. It came with two attachments, one with two adjustable "hands", and one flat with just 4 holes06:43
ShadowJKnever fond any use for the last one until N81006:43
ShadowJKthe holes aligned perfectly with the holes on the car holder included with N81006:43
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luke-jrsevard: erm, N810's GPS radio is fine. The problem is software.07:16
luke-jrnotably, N900 has the same GPS that N810 did ;)07:17
derfThe N810's GPS was horrible.07:17
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luke-jrderf: it's the driver07:20
TiagoTiagoare human nails harder or softer than the builtin stylus of the N900?07:21
luke-jrsofter I bet07:22
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TiagoTiagodon't forget that human hair is tougher than steel mm³ per mm³07:23
jpinx-eeepcspidersweb even more07:23
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TiagoTiagowell, yeah, but i don't see the relation between spiderwebs and human nails07:23
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zokieri dont think spiderweb is harder, but stronger than steel07:34
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zokierid say that the stylus is harder than human nails, as i cant scratch my stylus withmy nails07:35
TiagoTiagobut can you scratch your nails with the stylus?07:36
zokieryes, it seems to leave a mark07:37
TiagoTiagothat's good news,  using nails is probably less harmfull to the screen than using the stylus :)07:38
luke-jrmy nails bend too easy07:39
microlithI've never scratched my screen with my stylus07:40
luke-jrgrumble, kernel-maemo doesn't support iotop07:40
microlithbut I have with my nails!07:40
TiagoTiagoperhaps the hardness of the nail depends on the direction of the forvce applied07:41
zokierprobably varies from a person to person07:41
microliththat and the surface at the edge of the nail07:41
microlithand if anything, no matter how small, happens to be in the path07:42
zokierand nails may be bit sharper than the round tip of stylus07:43
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TiagoTiagothe stylus should be softer than the screen, so if you can't mscratch the stylus you can't scratch the screen07:46
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luke-jrI'll be MIA for a week or so; bye07:49
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jpinx-eeepcluke-jr: where ya going?07:50
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luke-jrjpinx-eeepc: can't say until I'm gone, sorry07:50
jpinx-eeepcdon't stay away too long - we need you ;)07:50
jpinx-eeepcwe need every sane developer and user in here ;)07:51
TiagoTiagoyou're going to war? o.o07:51
TiagoTiagoor just to a new job?07:52
luke-jrcan't say, lawyer sez so07:52
TiagoTiagoor you can't even answer questions like these?07:53
TiagoTiagooh, wow07:53
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luke-jrimplying I'm going somewhere is already too much really07:53
TiagoTiagoi'll drop it07:54
TiagoTiagothough it's not like i know who yoju are besides your current irc nick07:54
TiagoTiagoanyway, good luck07:54
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luke-jrmy IRC nick is my real name, abbreviated slightly07:56
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TiagoTiagothere is this post in tmo i've stumbled upon a few times but i ended up never bookmarking thinking it was easy to find, well, i'm not finding it , it was a post about how to decide how big to make your /home partition, any idea?07:57
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n900-spaceTiagoTiago: i have always find it very hard to search any post in tmo, so bookmarking or stumbling upon it again using google is the only option.08:33
n900-spacebtw have been able to change that 2048 figure?08:33
n900-spacehave u*08:33
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TiagoTiagoyeah, but the pc is slow so i started playing blobwars, i'll leave thee reflash to tomorrow, i have to go somewhere and i and dwanna risk going with a blank N900,  i'll work oln it tomorrowi in the afternoon,i'm gonna also try doing a diff on the file edited with an hex editor  vs with a regular text editor08:35
TiagoTiagodon't wanna risk*08:36
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n900-spacewell its guaranteed that editing emmc image with a text editor is going to leave it worth no use, unless there is a text editor which has this kind of capability that i dont know of ofcourse08:37
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scp1Why does the n900 reboot when I kill X?09:18
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Khertan_HomeHi guys !09:21
Khertan_Homehi achipa ,09:21
Khertan_Homeachipa, you are the maintainer of pyqt in extras-devel right ?09:22
achipaKhertan_Home: so they say :)09:22
Khertan_Homei got some report from user saying that khweeteur depends on old pyqt package and should depends on pyqt4-experimentals09:23
Khertan_Homeexperimental ... look like experimental ... so any apps for ends user should not depends on it09:23
Khertan_Homeand the problem is also that it s conflict with "normal" pyqt package09:24
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djszapiI am using binary nvidia driver.09:35
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rmrfchikdjszapi: don't you miss channel? anyway, you don't use nvidia driver09:41
rmrfchikpaste your xorg.conf09:42
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djszapixephyr is needed to run maemo gui ...09:43
djszapii do not miss the channel ofc ...09:43
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djszapi -> I am also using nvidia ...09:43
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rmrfchikdjszapi: didn't see a note about xephyr, so first paste was from xephyr log?09:47
djszapiwhat do you mean ?09:47
djszapiwhat do you mean ?09:48
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rmrfchikdjszapi: I mean, this log is from xephyr?09:48
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rmrfchikmine is in ia32-libs package o_O09:51
sevardDoes anyone use garmin maps with navit?09:51
djszapirmrfchik: which distribution do you use ?09:52
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rmrfchikdjszapi: debian10:00
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hrwrmrfchik: hi10:38
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merlin1991where's the early morning spam?10:45
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crashanddieearly morning spam?10:46
crashanddielike, the so-called meat in a box?10:46
crashanddieI'd rather have bacon, tyvm10:46
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meceKhertan_, ping10:56
meceKhertan_Home, ping?10:57
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Khertan_Homemece, ponc10:59
Khertan_Homemece, pong10:59
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meceKhertan_Home, Khteditor 0.5-1 gives me this:
mecesame with 0.4-1 (or whatever the previous version is) is there a dependency issue?11:04
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Khertan_Homemece, gnié ?11:05
Khertan_Homemece, did you have other Qt app that works ?11:06
Khertan_Homeit should be contained in python-qt4-qtcore11:06
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meceKhertan_Home, yes, other pyqt apps work. perhaps khteditor use the experimental pyqt libs but doesn't depend on them?11:08
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Khertan_Homemece, no no ... i didn't use experimentals11:08
meceis there a package called python-qt4-qtcore? I've got python2.5-qt4-core11:09
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meceapparently i have python2.5-qt4-core v 4.7.4-maemo011:11
mecewhat have you got?11:11
mecelondon underground. It's relevant I hear.11:13
Khertan_Homesame here11:16
Khertan_Homepython2.5-qt4-core              4.7.4-maemo0                    Python bindings for Qt4 Core components.11:16
Khertan_Homepython2.5-qt4 is installed ?11:16
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meceKhertan_Home, apparently not.11:17
meceyou think that's it?11:17
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mecemight it be python2.5-qt4-common that is missing. python2.5-qt4 is a metapackage.11:18
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mecehmm I don't feel like installing python2.5-qt4 because then we'll never know what was missing..11:20
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Khertan_Homemece, true11:24
Khertan_Homegod ... i miss this one11:24
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meceKhertan_Home, I commented out line 25 (import PyQt4.Qt) from and now khteditor works perfectly.11:26
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Khertan_Homemece, until you launch the dialog :)11:26
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mecewhich dialog?11:26
Khertan_Homeuhm ... it s not anymore a dialog11:27
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Khertan_Homei mean the pylint11:27
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meceKhertan_Home, everything seems to work. what does pylint do? how do I know?11:27
Khertan_Homethe pylint process use some constant located in Qt module11:28
meceok so how do I test it?11:28
Khertan_Homeyou didn't know what pylint is ?11:28
Khertan_Homeopen a python source code11:28
Khertan_Homeand click on the pylint button11:28
meceit's open.11:28
Khertan_Homebut it s require that pylint is installed11:28
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Khertan_Home(i've made the package in extras-devel)11:29
meceso I need to separately install pylint?11:30
achipawhoops, meeting... anyway, Khertan_Home: experimental pyqt is not parallel installable11:31
crashanddielcuk: do you still have that link to that git cheatsheet11:32
achipawould need to monkey around with module paths, LD stuff, and since there is no mobility or similar for it anyway, didn't bother that much...11:32
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djszapi-> /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser lpapp yes11:35
djszapiHost kernel is lacking binfmt_misc support!11:35
djszapiYou need it to run scratchbox.11:35
meceachipa, do you know which package is needed for PyQt4.Qt?11:36
djszapi -> what is happening ? I can load a module more times ?11:36
djszapiI have got an archlinux host and a debian chrooted guest inside that where I would like to execute this command.11:36
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meceKhertan_Home, appears 0.0.6-1 got stuck in the autobuilder...11:38
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lcukcrashanddie, certainly11:42
crashanddieyeah, found it :P11:43
crashanddieI prefer the -large.png one though11:43
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djszapiany idea ?11:43
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djszapi/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start11:44
djszapiStarting Scratchbox: binfmt_misc, mount.11:44
djszapiand even ...11:44
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lcukcrashanddie, sure it just wfm to have it handy11:46
crashanddieYeah, trying to print it on A3 paper ^^11:48
djszapiroot /home/lpapp #  lsmod | grep -Rni binfmt11:48
djszapiroot /home/lpapp #11:48
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rmrfchikhrw: aloga12:00
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achipamece: sounds like python2.5-qt4-core12:04
hrwrmrfchik: how goes vexed?12:04
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meceachipa, apparently it doesn't work. hm.12:04
achipathough that might me PyQt4.QtCore.Qt12:06
infobotachipa meant: though that might be PyQt4.QtCore.Qt12:06
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rmrfchikhrw: in fight "Dynamic Layouts: Me" I won 0:112:10
rmrfchikNow fixing sizes12:10
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rmrfchikhrw: think to publish today on public git. don't want to hack the GUI, wanna leave it to community ;)12:11
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Khertan_Homemece, auto builder as usual :)12:13
Khertan_Homemece, the 0.0.6 was publish yesterday12:13
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Khertan_Homeachipa, as it s works on my device ... it s strange12:14
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achipayou might be doing some from PyQt4(.QtCore) import * somewhere ?12:17
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hrwrmrfchik: nice12:20
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Khertan_Homeachipa ... probably :)12:22
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crashanddieMohammadAG51: does the hack still work with v3.42?12:23
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keriothey fixed the hack with 3.4212:41
kerioit's the only point of fw 3.4212:41
kerioin fact, i should download the updater to 3.4112:41
hajI can't make it work on my 3.41... old fat PS312:42
hajI am supposed to hit powerbutton and then eject, but how long do I hold it? can I hold it too long perhaps?12:42
hajI don't get the "install packages"12:42
kkegotta buy ps3 before they start shipping with unbreakble fw's12:42
lcukholy shit, on August 10th, Peter Schneider posted had 20million downloads
lcukits at 28million now!12:42
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keriodammit you can't download 3.4112:43
hajkke: It is a bit annoying that it needs to have the N900 connected all the time anyways... It would be nicer if it was possible to do a mod on the OS so that it just works.. I don't ever play online anyway but it would be nice to use harddisk for the games instead of wearing out the blu-ray drive.. :)12:44
kkehaj: you can get a chip for $50 but i guess you still need to use the eject trick12:46
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hajkke: thats the annoying part... I like turning on my PS3 with the controller ;) I don't want to get up and turn it on12:48
hajkke: it's not like I switch games that often anyway... ATM I'm playing Oblivion, so it's mostly that disc thats in the drive anyway...12:48
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alteregoIs MeeGo touch going to be available with PR1.3 ?12:48
kkekerio: there's some instructions in that thread how to solve that12:49
kkebut it's getting a bit offtopic for #maemo :)12:50
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: (+8e6) see how often people need to reflash? :-P12:54
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lcukDocScrutinizer, i would put it down to fapman and multidownloading apps quicker personally12:56
lcukbut idk12:56
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Khertan_Homealterego, MeeGo Touch ? the lib ?13:15
Khertan_Homelol i didn't see the topic13:16
timelesssp3000: ping, my conversations list is corrupt13:18
lcukwell google can now go DIAF, i just unset it as my homepage for the most recent picture.  wtf do they think the default homepage needs particle physics idk13:19
timelessparticle physics??13:21
Khertan_Homemece, 0.0.6-2 uploaded to extras-builder13:21
Khertan_Homeagain :)13:21
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sp3000timeless: stop having corrupt conversations :)13:22
timelessif i left you w/ picture urls could you censor them and send them to someone?13:23
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sp3000bah, my tb build dies somewhere13:24
alteregoKhertan_Home: yeah.13:24
lcuktimeless, you have been told not to take double polaroids13:24
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timelesswah, one of my pictures didn't take13:24
timelessthe 901 is an sms thing13:28
timelessnot a skype thing13:28
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timelesswhen i clicked on it, i got an error (which was camera(screenshot)-shy)13:29
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timelessbut having sent a new skype im to the real guy, the item doesn't appear the same way13:29
timelessalthough you can see it in the skype log view13:29
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lcukglitch in the matrix?14:39
toggles_whas anyone tried to open your n900 charger? have you seen the heads? wtf?14:39
lcukif i open my n900 charger my laptop won't work anymore14:40
MiXu-I had a weird issue of not being able to charge my N900 from a cigarette lighter plug using a plug that has a usb port in it14:41
toggles_wMiXu-: not wierd, not providing the amps14:41
MiXu-toggles_w: Is there a minimum that the N900 requires to charge?14:42
toggles_wMiXu-: yes, not sure what, but more than 500 most car usb chargers provide14:42
toggles_wthere is a hack to short the pins, but can't remember from memory14:43
toggles_wbtw. If your dad doesn't have a beard then you have two mums.14:43
MiXu-A PC won't provide more than 500mA14:43
toggles_whappy world beard day you open source beard folk14:43
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toggles_wMiXu-: not sure exactly, google is your friend, there is plenty of chatter on tmo14:44
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MiXu-toggles_w: Yeah. I do have a proper nokia charger that works but I was just wondering why the USB-cable won't work14:45
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toggles_wMiXu-: don't know without doing research, but it has to do with pin shorting to allow dumb chargers to work, vs pc, vs drawing more amps from the wall14:49
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timelessdneary: geoping14:50
toggles_wdamn.. it's called a tri-wing screwdriver... wtf14:50
dnearytimeless, What's a geoping?14:50
dnearyYou want to know where I am?14:50
timelessi'm @kings-cross/london14:51
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dnearyLyon, France14:52
timelesshrm, with luck i might be there around november14:53
MiXu-Looks like it requires shorting the two middle pins of a usb port to make the car charger look like a nokia wall charger to the n90014:54
toggles_wno, make it look like a dumb charger that will provide 500ma14:55
toggles_wthe wall charger will provide 1200mah, how it tells the deivce i don't know14:56
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kerioit doesn't14:56
keriowhen d+/d- are shorted, the n900 assumes it's some kind of charger14:57
kerioand happily sucks as much power as it can14:57
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MohammadAG51hmm, can anyone link me to maemo5 specific qt code?14:57
MohammadAG51or just paste the PyQt rotation flag :P14:57
kerioit doesn't do that when there's a data connection because it would mean it's talking to a computer/hub/something that may actually need the pw for something else14:57
ech0Asushows everyone doing?14:57
toggles_wmolto bene14:57
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toggles_wkerio: fair enough14:58
ech0Asusanyone know if nagra3 has been figured out yet?14:59
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zapThe package libsdl-ttf2.0 is broken, anybody else encounters this problem?15:04
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achipazap: pretty much everybody. On it. Going slow. Sadly.15:04
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zapMaintainer: PyMaemo Team...15:05
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lcukis there an app category for compilations?15:07
lcuksupposing someone wanted to make a metapackage for artist programs, or exploration etc - they could bundle them together and put on extras15:07
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lcukor #maemotop5 lists :D15:08
ieatlintMohammadAG51: if you still need it,
ieatlintdunno the pyqt equiv...15:11
JaffaMorning, all15:11
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alteregolcuk: not sure I like that idea :P15:13
JuniperJaxxgoodmirning Jaffa15:13
lcukalterego, why not?15:13
JuniperJaxxi just realized how nice the alarm tones on the n900 are15:13
lcuki thought about it for the maemo coding competition15:13
achipaieatlint: same thing, just replace :: with .15:14
lcukto allow people to install all the entrants at once15:14
alteregoWell, you could just make a meta package.15:14
lcukmorning Jaffa15:14
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alteregoJust spent the morning refactoring some code into shared libs15:15
alteregoPain in the ass.15:15
lcuki thought it was qml?15:15
frals :D15:15
pupnik_JuniperJaxx: good sound design is like that - it's unobtrusive but lends immensely to the feel of a product15:16
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ieatlintachipa: and out of curiosity, how would you do "#ifdef Q_WS_MAEMO_5" in qt?15:18
alteregoieatlint: #if defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_5)15:18
JuniperJaxxpupnik_: actually i have not looked into this but anyway to get those tones off of my n900?15:18
pupnik_find /usr/share/ -name \*.wav  maybe JuniperJaxx15:19
JuniperJaxxpupnik_: yeah i will take a look i have not installed an ssh daemon on my n900 yet it might be a good time to do it :P15:21
lcukieatlint, alterego - why does #ifdef not work?15:21
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alteregoBecause Q_WS_ stuff is a different macro15:22
alteregoIsn't a macro, I don't think, n  ot in the C/C++ sense.15:22
alteregoBut maybe I'm wrong, I dunno :)15:22
lcukso #if preprocessor can evaluate real variables?15:23
ieatlinti don't really know python, so i'm not the one to ask15:23
koala_manthe sshd is one of the apps I use the most. I love being able to scp files to the device15:23
alteregolcuk: it can in Qt yeah15:23
MiXu-Looks like the pin-mod works on the car charger15:23
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djszapiwhat do I do wrong ?15:26
djszapinewgrp sbox15:26
djszapilpapp@myhost:/$ /scratchbox/login15:26
djszapiERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up!15:26
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* Noobmonk3y waves15:27
djszapi-> /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start happened15:27
djszapi/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start15:27
djszapiStarting Scratchbox: binfmt_misc, mount.15:27
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djszapi/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser lpapp15:29
djszapiScratchbox user account for user lpapp already exists!15:29
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ieatlintdjszapi: this may be your problem
djszapiit worked perfectly before the restart15:30
djszapiPC reboot, I mean15:30
djszapi 41 kernel /boot/vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda6 ro vsdo32=015:31
ieatlintunless you added it the sysctl.conf, it won't survive a reboot15:31
djszapithis is my kernel boot line that should work15:31
djszapiwhy not15:31
djszapikernel boot parameter takes effect after every reboot15:31
ieatlintactually i don't know.. presumably that would work15:32
wazd pwnd :)15:32
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djszapibut it does not work ...15:32
ieatlintalthough you're setting vsdo3215:32
djszapiand ?15:32
ieatlintassuming you're >2.6.24, it's abi.vsyscall3215:32
djszapiyes, 2.6.3515:33
ieatlintotherwise it's vdso, not vdso3215:33
djszapipardon ?15:33
ieatlintyou should be setting abi.vsyscall32 to 0, not "vdso32", which i doubt even exists15:33
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djszapimmh, it works now ...15:34
djszapiwhat I did: sbox_ctl stop/start15:34
djszapistart was not enough .... weird ....15:34
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achipaieatlint: that's kind of the wrong approach - you should try: except: an import statement with the QtMaemo5 module15:35
achipaieatlint: #ifdef makes little/no sense in a Python context15:36
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ieatlintachipa: uh ... hence why i asked15:36
Noobmonk3ylol waz15:36
ieatlinti'm used to using it in c/c++, was curious how it would translate to python15:36
achipapython is a shoot (import) first, ask (except) later :)15:37
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Psi3 hours well spent, (compiled FPC and lazarus for linux-arm crosscompile and got it running)15:40
Psijust dropped few buttons/memos/tickboxes onto a form, compiled, copied to n900 and it runs :D15:40
* SpeedEvil passes Psi a celebratory cooking apple.15:41
Psilarge chunk of the time was renaming  to  foo.so15:42
Psicos i was to lazy to write a script to do it15:42
Psiabout 500 or so files15:43
SpeedEvilI tend to just do that with awk.15:43
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SpeedEvilfind . -whatever -print0|awk -v RS="\000" '{gsub("15:44
SpeedEvilI use awk for way too much.15:44
SpeedEvilIncluding realtime DSP15:44
JuniperJaxxpupnik_: -rw-r--r--    1 root     root       158911 Aug 26  2009 /usr/share/sounds/ui-clock_alarm_2.aac15:45
SpeedEvilUnsurprisingly - sox|hexdump|awk is actually quite an inefficient way of doing DSP15:45
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sevardDoes anyone use garmin maps with navit?15:47
SpeedEvilAs far as I'm aware - that's impossible.15:48
SpeedEvilThere are convert OSM software to garmin tools.15:48
sevardthere's a libgarmin, and navit is supposed to support garmin maps.15:48
SpeedEvilbut I don't think it's the ohter way15:48
SpeedEvilOr maybe I'm wrong.15:48
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SpeedEvilI would suggest asking over on #openstreetmap over on irc.oftc.net15:49
sevardI'm trying to find out if libgarmin is broken, it seems the maintainer stopped working on it a long time ago15:49
SpeedEvilor is it #osm15:49
sevardit doesn't look like anyone is complaining about it but then again but I can't find anyone that acutally uses it15:49
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djszapiW: GPG error: default/unreleased Release: No keyring installed in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/.15:49
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Khertan_Homewho have announced his candidature for Maemo Council ?15:56
Noobmonk3yanother vote already?15:57
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meceNoobmonk3y, hey! long time15:59
Noobmonk3yhey hey!16:00
Noobmonk3y:) :)16:00
Noobmonk3yyeah sorry - i was being useless, you know, real life n all, got in the way :)16:00
meceNoobmonk3y, yeah, real life blows!16:00
Noobmonk3yhehehe - just moved home, and hadnt got round to setting computers up :P16:01
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Noobmonk3yright back to work!16:04
Noobmonk3yciao alls16:04
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zapWhat's the best emulation to use in scratchbox? qemu-arm-cvs-m?16:21
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pogI just installed (on N900 locate from the repositories. dbupdate --localpaths='/'  which resides and is a link in  usr/bin/gun comes with error: find: unrecognized: -fstype16:25
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pogthere might be other packages arround with slocate or mlocate which work...16:26
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pogprobably easy question, *where* are the musik Donwload Data in the file-tree, I dont find them below /home/user16:28
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zapE0x: Unable to parse package file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle-1.2_free_binary-armel_Packages (1)16:29
zapE0x: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.16:29
zapIs this the expected behavior?16:29
pog(mc commander works...)16:30
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zapI'm glad16:32
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pogha, I'm just on installing the N90016:34
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pognice gadget!!!16:34
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zap/home/user/Xorg.0.log is all filled with 0xff's for security reasons? :)16:37
fralsScelt: the reports ive raid specificially say wikileaks wasnt disturbed during the raid16:38
poggoogle is too intelligent to find dbupdate (in one word:-)16:39
pogsome guys got to work locate dbupdate on N900?16:39
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TiagoTiagoi had to reflash, the contacts app was crashing over and over again :(16:42
TiagoTiagothat was before, this time i think what messed thing sup was flipping on and off and switching sim cards back and forth while the operator was sending the configs for internet16:43
TiagoTiagoPOwer Kernel said somthing baout an unexpected reboot, but i wasn't rebooting, i was holding the power button, thugh i might not have waited long enough to pull the battery once or twice16:44
TiagoTiagoi think i heard a DC pop comming form the speakers once16:45
TermanaI find that you need to wait about 10 seconds before it decides its fully turned off16:45
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TiagoTiagoseems like a good guideline16:48
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pogI got a hint concerning dbupdate (change script find to gfinde on 208) Here: seems to work..16:50
TiagoTiagoi tookt he oportunity and also  flash the emmc, now i shouldn't have issues with running out of space in /opt for a long time16:51
pogha, the date I serached are hidden in /home/user ;-)16:51
TiagoTiagowhy some repos use just freemantle and other use freemantle-1.2?16:52
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barisioneif you use custom ringtones for contacts and works fine would you upvote it in ? I would like to make it reach extras as it seems to work fine16:54
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lindi-barisione: hmm, are those ringtones really armel specific?16:56
barisionelindi-: hm?16:56
PhonicUKhey all16:56
zapbarisione: I thought custom ringtones are in the standard N900 firmware?16:56
PhonicUKi managed to get my N900 to boot again :)16:56
lindi-barisione: it has 'Architecture: armel' set16:57
pupnikit is an app lindi-16:57
lindi-pupnik: ah16:57
barisionezap: custom per contact ringtones. it's not supported by default16:57
* lindi- was hoping for free ringtones :)16:57
barisioneno :)16:57
zapreally? it works for me, and I haven't installed your package16:57
barisionezap: how do you set a ringtone for a specific contact?16:58
zapbarisione: you won't believe, I really use your package :) Thought it's a standard feature, though was wondering why it's not translated to Russian :)16:59
zaphahah, I thought it's a standard feature17:00
barisionezap: now there is a russian translation!17:00
zapcool :)17:00
zapwill test & vote it17:00
pogwildmidi mymidi.mid works, but sound is not audible, when Device is sleeping (while ssh works).17:00
pogI'm glad that the device seems to be always ssh-accessible...17:01
pogso I can be used as a server:-)17:01
TiagoTiagoi wish there was a prog that owuld remind me of voting for the programs that need voting that i have instaleld17:01
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lindi-can you suggest some free ringtones? I found it really difficult to find something that'd meet debian free software guidelines and would be audible and somewhat non-odd :) I wrote my own, and submitted it to some site that collects free audio samples17:04
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PhonicUKsucks that the same day i get PSFreedom to work on my N900, sony releases a firmware update xD17:05
TiagoTiagothere is probably a few sites out there that host copyright-free (and other types of free) music and sound samples17:05
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lindi-TiagoTiago: yeah I tried googling around but most lacked proper copyright information17:06
TiagoTiagoyou shouldn't have left your PS3 set to update automaticly17:06
alteregolindi-: look for something under the creative commons, I know there's something out there, just can't remember what it is.17:06
TiagoTiagotry being specific, like using those creative commons abbreviations17:06
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TiagoTiagotry Wikimedia :)17:06
TiagoTiagousually they have explicit licensing information for the stuff there17:07
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lindi-PhonicUK: hmm, is the source of psfreedom available somewhere? I'd be interested in how gadget devices are created17:07
PhonicUKi dont know tbh, i'd suspect so though17:08
lindi-alterego: many were under CC-NC17:08
PhonicUKTiagoTiago, im not on auto update :P17:08
PhonicUKI can still use the jailbreak17:08
TiagoTiagoah, goood17:08
PhonicUKbut i cant play online without updating17:08
TiagoTiagooh, that sucks17:08
lindi-just setup your own server :)17:09
TiagoTiagoany way to trick the servers into thinking you are running a later firmware, or somehow dualboot the PS# with the new and the old firmwares?17:09
PhonicUKyes there are ways17:09
MNZlindi-, source code of psfreedom at
TiagoTiagotoo risky?17:09
PhonicUKinfact all you actually need to do is change your DNS settings17:09
TiagoTiagothen why the fuss?17:10
PhonicUKAFAIK sony can tell who is using it17:10
TiagoTiagoand they are threatening to cancel the accounts of those that don't update?17:11
lindi-MNZ: thanks!17:12
rmrfchikYour project registration for garage has been approved.17:12
alteregoSeems kind of strange writing a formatter to output NMEA from Qt's Geo Position module.17:13
PhonicUKnot that i know of17:13
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zaplibsmpeg0 is broken too :(17:17
zapextras repository is full of badly formed packages, unfortunately17:17
zapmuch worse than it was in 4.x17:17
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djszapiBecause I can see commits on the commit related mailing list of the maemo project ? But yeah, those ones happened not that lately.17:18
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zapAnybody got NFS to work on N900? It works flawlessly on N810, but mounting locks up on N90017:25
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zaphmm, I had to install nfs-common for it to work. Strange behavior17:31
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hajthats not especially strange is it? you need the portmapper..17:36
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MNZwhich, if any, kernel modules are closed source/nokia specific?17:48
TermanaMNZ, there are no closed source kernel modules17:49
MNZIt's not allowed by the GPL, but aren't there even nokia binary blobs of any sort?17:49
alteregoNot in the kernel17:50
lindi-MNZ: the license of psfreedom seems to be incompatible with GPLv2 hmm17:50
MNZlindi-, AFAIK psfreedom is under GPLv3, and I'd imagine that's compatible with GPLv217:51
lindi-MNZ: GPLv3 is not compatible with GPLv217:51
lindi-MNZ:  has a compatibility matrix17:51
MNZlindi-, heh, I never knew that17:53
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MNZthough it would still be compatible with stuff that's licensed as 'GPL version 2 or later' I guess17:53
lindi-MNZ: however, GPLv3 is compatible with apache v2, GPLv2 wasn't17:54
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lindi-MNZ: yes but linux is GPLv217:54
MNZlindi-, meh, it's a jailbreak, it's already pretty illegal, I guess KaKaRoTo doesn't real bother that it's not compatible with the kernel's license ;)17:55
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ieatlinti think linux is GPLv2 or later17:56
ieatlintso you can use GPLv3 at your discretion17:57
lindi-ieatlint: no it isn't17:57
ieatlintah, indeed17:57
ieatlintjust looked17:57
MNZI recall quite clearly that there was a bunch of name-calling between the GPL guys and Linus when GPLv3 came out17:58
MNZhe doesn't like v317:58
lindi-MNZ: bit moot point since it isn't up to him though17:58
lindi-MNZ: anyways, if it's illegal then it probably shouldn't be promoted here17:59
MNZlindi-, I believe the kernel license is actually up to Linus17:59
MNZand psfreedom... well, I dunno. I'm just an innocent bystander :D18:00
lindi-MNZ: there are quite many copyright holders that all need to agree18:00
tekojoMNZ: actually it's up to everyone who contributed18:00
lindi-MNZ: relicensing is not impossible but might take a few years18:01
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hrwenough is enough.18:04
hrwI recreated apmefo UI from scratch - now it works in portrait18:04
* MNZ cheers hrw on!18:05
kerioMNZ: less cheering more... well, you know18:06
MNZwell, I'm at a fork in the road18:06
kerio(seriously though, any progress? did you make something work?)18:06
MNZit's either that I've just wasted about 2 days, or that I'm on the brink of something epic18:06
TiagoTiagodoea ppmefo also allows for subfolders?18:07
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MNZkerio, knowing nokia, I think I'm on the brink of something epic. But if I am, then I'm really going to hate nokia quite a bit. I'm not sure what to wish for haha18:09
kerioMNZ: how epic?18:09
kerioepic like "96 hours of music reproduction"?18:10
MNZall video/audio on the DSP, a separate processor really. But then again I *think* that's already happening, except I can't tell where/how/when data leaves from the cpu to the DSP. But it seems we already use the DSP for image processing, so one would think they already do audio/video.....18:11
MNZso yeah, it will be really embarrassing when/if I find out it's already being used18:11
MNZ(which I think it is :D)18:11
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TiagoTiagowill that make youtube less jumpy?18:11
MNZTiagoTiago, youtube is a completely different story and completely out of my hands, and nokia's hands18:12
kerioyoutube supports html5 on some videos18:13
kerioi mean, HTML5's <video> tag18:13
keriowith browser support, you could make that go through the DSP too18:13
hrwwhat you people use to make a grab in portrait mode?18:14
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keriohrw: a what in the where now18:14
lcukRT: @PeterMeeGo Got an #N900? Let me know how you use multitasking. Do you keep the dashboard clean or messy?           -
hrwscreenshot-tool helped18:15
kerioi always leave stuff closed18:15
lcukdont shout here18:15
lcukgo and shout in the thread18:15
keriothe hell if i'm going anywhere near TMO18:15
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hrw - looks good?18:15
lcukkerio, :| now or I put you on /ignore :P18:16
keriook, :|18:16
lcukhrw, whats this for?18:16
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lcukcos that dialog looks sweet18:16
kerioit's ApMeFo in portrait mode18:16
hrwkerio: apmefo in portrait18:17
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kerioprogram that lets you put programs in folders in the app menu18:17
hrwlcuk: author does not provided full sources for app so I started hacking18:17
lcuksomewhere around I believe there is a portrait mode app launcher18:18
lcukhrw, it certainly looks good18:18
hrwlcuk: looks better then was18:18
crashanddielcuk: is that crowdsourcing from Peter a way to know if they need to keep multitasking or pull a sony and start removing features as they go along?18:19
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lcukcrashanddie, how should I know, but people complain theres no nokia interaction, and now Peter is there interacting18:19
lcukdon't miss the oportunity and give as much feedback as possible to show its worthwhile18:19
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th3hateanyone tried that browser that comes with quickflickr?18:21
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lcukth3hate, have you?18:22
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th3hatelcuk, yes it much better than microB. Wonder if anyone can extract the browser out of quickflickr. check this post:
TiagoTiagotalking about microB, does any of you know where i can get a binary of microB ported to Windows?18:25
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TiagoTiagoafter having got used to it in the N900, somtimes i feel like browsing with it's simpleness on my desktop18:26
lcukth3hate, its not a full browser, its the normal qtquick one afaik so go grab it add the extra bits?18:26
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th3hatelcuk, only if you tell me how to :P18:29
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DocScrutinizerhrw: how will you manage the hw-kbd pivot for entering e.g. folder names to apmefo?18:29
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hrwDocScrutinizer: entering I do in landscape18:30
hrwDocScrutinizer: sorting is more useful in portrait18:30
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ccookeOkay. Today, I am *almost* getting full use from my n900...18:33
TiagoTiagowhat do yo mean by full use?18:33
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ccookeIt is currently taped to the window of the holiday cottage I'm sharing with my wife and two friends. It's providing us a mobile hotspot with a 3.5g connection18:34
kerioi get that a lot18:34
keriohaha what18:34
keriothat's not even close to the maximum18:34
ccookeIt's also got bluetooth enabled, connected to my headset (so I can still make and receive calls)18:34
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lcukccooke, get it taking timelapse hdr photos18:35
TiagoTiagoyou walk to the window and tap on the glass?18:35
ccookeand, meanwhile, it is taking a timelapse photograph of the tide18:35
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kerioccooke: now you're talking boy18:35
kerioTiagoTiago: huh?18:35
keriolrn to HFP18:35
ccookeWe're on Anglesey, and the camera is pointing at the channel between here and Holy Island18:35
lcukccooke, o_O18:35
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ccookenow: Since having bluetooth enabled cuts bandwidth for wifi, does anyone know how to enable and disable bluetooth from the command line? :-)18:36
kerioccooke: meh, you still won't get full with a 3g connection18:36
TiagoTiagoyou still need to have it wired to a big screen and play video  games on it with multiple people, a couple with Dualshock# and a couple with Wiimotes18:36
ccookekerio: 3.5g18:36
keriostill 10.5 vs 5418:37
ccookekerio: I've had 335kB/s with three other people doing ssh+web. That is more than enough.18:37
kerioand yeah, when i say 3g i kinda always mean 3.518:37
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kerioi know, i mean that bluetooth is not an issue here18:37
ccookehell, there isn't even supposed to *be* a 3g signal here :-)18:37
kerioalso nerds18:37
ccookekerio: running the cell radio, bluetooth and wifi, though...18:38
kerioccooke: huh18:38
TiagoTiagoall my Nokia phones have had great signal, usually even getting signal in places where people say there isn't signal18:38
TiagoTiagoyou should probably keep an eye on battery level18:38
kerioyou won't get full bandwidth via wifi anyway18:38
ccookeTiagoTiago: yeah, but in this case I'm going by the official vodafone network map :-)18:38
pogI see there is "easydebian" but can serverpackages not be installed from debian ARM Repositories?18:38
TiagoTiagothe N900 is a guzzler when at full throtle18:38
kerioand the cellmo is another antenna, afaik18:38
ccookeTiagoTiago: It's plugged in.18:39
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TiagoTiagoah, good18:39
ccookeTiagoTiago: I trailed an extension cable onto the top of the window :-)18:39
TiagoTiagodoes the charger cable works as an atenna for any of the radios?18:39
keriothe fm one18:40
keriostream some music!18:40
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FrieTa guzzler huh?;D18:41
keriohow did you tape it?18:41
FrieTi have yet to go over 700mA !18:41
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FrieTseriously now, that's even more than 15 minutes of batterylife :p18:42
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keriodo you have a boombox there?18:42
FrieT15 minutes ought to be enough for anybody;D18:42
kerioor something with a FM radio18:42
TiagoTiagoI somtimes get to low battery warning in less than 4 hours, i would expect it to last at least like 8 hours18:42
FrieTTiagoTiago: if you use it as a computer, there's no way you'll make it do 8 hours, no.18:43
FrieTbattery is too flimsy18:43
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SpeedEvilI've only had 4 hours when doing 3G18:43
kerioFrieT: my laptop does 8 hours18:43
SpeedEvillarge data interactive stuff18:43
FrieTkerio: your laptop's battery is 234 as large as n90018:43
FrieTlet alone n900's tiny battery:P18:43
dr34mive just received my nokia n900 back from nokia :)18:44
dr34mbrand new.18:44
dr34mthey changed it :)18:44
TiagoTiagohow long did it take?18:45
dr34mtotally 6 weeks.18:45
FrieTi have mine insured.18:45
FrieTagainst coffeespills, drops, yada yada18:45
TiagoTiago6 weeks without your precious? that gotta hurt18:45
dr34mi brought it back to phone shop and they send it to some repairshop18:45
dr34mafter being unable to fix it they send to nokia18:45
E0x3g is a dragon18:45
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DocScrutinizerFrieT: It did like 12h continuous usage as a 'computer' for me18:45
kerioi'd just get a Nokia Care18:46
kerioin fact, i should call them18:46
TiagoTiagohow much does that type of insurance cost?18:46
FrieTDocScrutinizer: uh, hm?18:46
keriomy usb port is fucked up since about a month now18:46
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TiagoTiagoand does it cover unexplained b ricking?18:46
FrieTTiagoTiago: no, but it does cover spilling caffeine18:46
FrieTso seriously18:46
FrieTinstead of unxplained brick18:46
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FrieTjust drop the thing18:46
keriooh, covers all kind of damage18:47
FrieTapart from fraud18:47
kerioscreen gets scratched, throw it on the ground and ask for a replacement?18:47
TiagoTiagoyou should make one of those videos showing how though the N900 is, but only release it under a pseudonym and like a month or so after you get your replacement18:47
FrieTdoes it blend?18:47
pogI use it as a server at the moment, and i have it on the powersupply :-) Makes a nice server.18:47
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TiagoTiagowould be fun to have one transmitting FM with a radio next to the blender18:48
FrieTnah i'll use it to test MNZ's audio stuff:)18:48
FrieTif i blast its speakers, too bad:P18:48
MNZFrieT, ;)18:48
keriohow much time will i have to wait, if i go to an official nokia care?18:49
pogIm just wondring weather non GUI Software works out of the box from ARM-Debian repositories?18:49
FrieTpog: if libraries are OK, it should18:49
microlitha good amount should18:49
TiagoTiagoi wonder when they will make a phone/device where the screen is actually a speaker, it vibrates to make sounds, kinda like those shower speakers you stick tot he glass of the stall18:49
pogos I can try, thanks.18:49
FrieTTiagoTiago: BRRRR that'd suck18:49
FrieTon a phone that is18:49
TiagoTiagoreally? couldn't they design it so it wouldn't?18:50
FrieTimagine talking to that18:50
FrieTyour cheeck being all bzzzzz18:50
TiagoTiagoit would be perfect for tactile feedback for touchscreen18:50
FrieTMNZ: can i recompile the mail client from source on the n900 itself?18:50
FrieTor do i need scratchbox due to lack of space?18:50
pogI read that it's easier to cross compile from a PC18:51
FrieTTiagoTiago: hmmmnah. tactile feedback is over and underrated. I don't care for tactile feedback with a stylus, but nothing can replace a proper keyboard eiter18:51
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: taktile feedback implemented POC long ago18:51
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TiagoTiagoi mean it would buzz on your finger when you pressed hard enough18:51
FrieTpog: yeah i figure.. i just need to get a certain commit installed18:51
pogthere are more development tools on PC side.18:51
DocScrutinizerthough not for speaker purpose18:51
MNZFrieT, no idea, but #maemo should know18:51
pogbut you certainly can compile on N90018:51
FrieTyes i should consider asking in #maemo18:52
FrieTthing is i'm using zimbra18:52
FrieTand that has a bug:)18:52
FrieTwell, the mail app on maemo does18:52
lcukFrieT, on device compilation of a large autotools using application like modest would require a chroot and much more standard tools than are commonly done18:52
FrieTi found where it got fixed upstream18:52
FrieTbut .. not yet.18:52
FrieTnot yet in binary form.18:52
lcukpeople regularly install things like build-essential to play around with their little dev things18:52
lcukand it supports makefiles and stuff18:53
lcukbut full system app building is more geared for full sdk18:53
FrieTdoes anyone actually have a running dev environment here willing to roll a binary for me?18:53
DocScrutinizerlcuk: except luke-jr who seems has compiled a complete gentoo natively :-P18:53
FrieToh boy you're joking?:D18:54
lcukDocScrutinizer, thats complete new os18:54
keriopff, from stage318:54
lcukthats not inside maemo18:54
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DocScrutinizerI seem to remember he claimed it finished after some 5 days18:54
lcukslightly different actually18:54
slonopotamusFrieT: download gentoo stage 3 tarball for armv7 and just chroot into it -> you got sane dev env18:54
FrieTemm does that fit in mydocs?18:55
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FrieTand gentoo.. err18:55
FrieTi need to roll .deb's18:55
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FrieTor not even that18:55
FrieTall i need is replace one library:p18:55
DocScrutinizer""please call back in a week, I'm currently updating my gentoo"" hrhrhrrr18:55
slonopotamuskerio: i did that twice :P18:56
FrieTDocScrutinizer: that's why they made distcc:p18:56
jpinx-eeepckerio: real men trun capslock off :)18:56
FrieTnot true18:56
kerionah, real men only have the capitalized letters18:56
FrieTreal men use capslock and hold shift while typing18:56
* slonopotamus kicks kerio for capsing18:57
kerioreal men turn caps on and off by POKEing a memory address18:57
TiagoTiagoreal men shout for real and the computer writes it out of fear18:57
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slonopotamusi thought that kind of stuff is intended to be about chuck norris18:58
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TiagoTiagoare you saying ol' Chuck isn't a real man?18:59
keriochuck norris doesn't have /kick, he has /roundhousekick18:59
FrieTkerio: so you're implying real men use BASIC ?18:59
keriobasic is a kickass language19:00
kerioOOP is for pussies19:00
MyrttiHASKELL FTW19:00
FrieTi remember looping machinecode in a POKE loop in BASIC on the c=64 :p19:00
FrieTdidn't have an assembler at that point19:00
FrieTmy world changed when i got my first assembler!!19:00
TiagoTiagoi've jsut run "apt-get -f install" and it's scrollign text for a few minutes now, did i screw up?  0.019:01
FrieTyou used debian.19:01
FrieTyour loss, you were warned.19:01
Myrtticould be worse.19:02
FrieTthey added this part about non-liability into GPL especially for the debian project19:02
Myrtticould be gentoo19:02
FrieTgentoo is not worse19:02
FrieTgentoo never eats your data19:02
FrieTit has to boot up to do that :P19:02
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Myrttiok, I rephrase19:03
Myrtticould be worse, could be something *DERIVED* from Ubuntu19:03
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FrieToh boy19:03
FrieTactually it could be running something rpath-derived19:04
slonopotamusFrieT: what's worse, maemo?19:04
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FrieTna maemo is pretty OK19:06
FrieTapart from its poor choice of audio handling software:P19:06
TiagoTiagowhat the fuck?!19:06
TiagoTiago the black is chipping off from my right arrow key 0.019:06
fralsTiagoTiago: i had it come off lots of my keys :p19:07
TiagoTiagolol, eventually i'll have to hit the keys by memory Xp19:07
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FrieTdrop it19:07
FrieTand claim insurance19:08
FrieT<wanders off>19:08
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TiagoTiagothe area where it's chipped off is actually much lighter than the regular character of the keys19:08
TiagoTiagowon't they check the status of the device before acepting the contract?19:08
DocScrutinizerMyrtti: \o/ long time no see19:09
TiagoTiagohm, somthing froze the screen while i was installing shit, i still got SSH acess, is there anythign i can do to thaw the screen?19:09
hrwhave a nice rest of day19:10
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: killall hildon-desktop19:13
DocScrutinizermight help19:13
TiagoTiagook, i'll try, thanx19:13
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: though in your special case I'd suggest a reflash every other day19:13
TiagoTiagoi had this same thing the first time, i don't remember which thing i was installing though19:14
DocScrutinizerit's most likely not about what you were installing, rather about what you already had installed19:15
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TiagoTiagothe window that was in front disapeared, now the terminal is showing, but frozen too :(19:15
DocScrutinizeras installing in itself usually doesn't start any rogue or nasty processes19:16
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TiagoTiagoi isntalled fapman and then marked like 160+ things to install and let it isntalling19:16
TiagoTiagoit complained, told me to do apt-get -f install (or that is how i remember, dunno if i remember the command wrong)19:16
* DocScrutinizer hands mega troll gold medal to TiagoTiago19:17
lcuknot at all DocScrutinizer19:17
TiagoTiagono, i'm not trolling, i'm being honest o.o19:17
lcukthats simply class19:17
TiagoTiagothat command was wrong?19:18
lcukTiagoTiago, in all seriousness, you need to file a bug against fapman19:18
TiagoTiago or you guys jsut surprized about the number?19:18
DocScrutinizerwtf? installing 160+ apps on a single event? not even my servers do survive such insult19:18
lcukthat it should be checking limits of the device carefully19:18
lcukeither that or you installed something odd from -devel19:18
Khertan_Homewhy everytime some talk about fapman in my head it s sound like fartham :)19:18
lcukDocScrutinizer, shush19:18
TiagoTiagoi did reflash making /home about 8gigs wide19:18
lcukKhertan_Home, it sounds a lot worse in english19:18
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lcukTiagoTiago, groan19:19
lcukDocScrutinizer, installing a bunch of applications is the principle usecase for fapman19:19
TiagoTiagoi'm confused....19:19
lcukit HAS to get its error checking upto snuff19:19
drizztbsdis there any equalizer for the n900 media player?19:19
TiagoTiagoalso, doesn't HAM also does it when you restore a backup?19:19
drizztbsdmaybe a gstreamer-based equalizer19:19
lcukdrizztbsd, speak to MNZ19:20
DocScrutinizera bunch != 160+ burning hell and brimstone19:20
lcukDocScrutinizer, why not?19:20
drizztbsdwho is mnz? :)19:20
* Khertan_Home is also confused he was thinking that switching from pyqt to pyside was just an matter of modifying import ... but this is not the case19:20
MNZdrizztbsd, that would be me19:20
drizztbsdMNZ: ok, so? :)19:21
MNZdrizztbsd, long story short, you can get mafw-gst-eq-renderer from the repos (not my work). The other solution is hardware EQ which I'm working on, but no promises19:21
TiagoTiagocrap, killing hildon-desktop tooo many times triggered that thingy that thinx it is borked and ofrces a reboot19:21
drizztbsdoh ok19:21
DocScrutinizerlcuk: maybe because not even swap space is large enough to hold the data structures to resolve the dependecies?19:21
TiagoTiagoif it was done smratly, it would keep a list stored somewhere, and would do the things one by one19:22
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: LOL19:22
DocScrutinizer~hail DSME19:22
* infobot bows down to DSME and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"19:22
drizztbsduhm I cannot find mafw-gst-eq-renderer neither in extras nor extras-devel19:22
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MNZdrizztbsd, ah sorry, not in repos.
MNZdrizztbsd, see this
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drizztbsdcan I use that with default media player?19:25
MNZdrizztbsd, AFAIK yes.19:25
Noobmonk3ydoes anyone use the Meamo VMware image and esbox?19:25
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: (if was done smartly) nope that's the stupid way. For a combo install the appmanager is supposed to check the complete install set and check for cross incompatibilities, giving user a warning and chance to deselect or otherwise solve the issue with conflicting apps any way he likes19:25
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: your way would mean app 1 always installs, while app 2 later on alwways fails19:26
MNZdrizztbsd, to be sure try the 'MGR' flavor. Full Disclosure: I haven't got to trying the eq (yet)19:26
drizztbsdok thanks19:26
TiagoTiagoand at that step it runs our of memmory?19:26
FrieTMNZ: make sure to keep me updated when you want to get code tested that may fry speakers:D19:27
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: yes19:27
TiagoTiagoI see19:27
MNZFrieT, sure thing. Hopefully want have to do it that way :D19:27
* Noobmonk3y pokes a kipper up MohammadAG51 's nose19:27
drizztbsdI attached the AUX IN cable to my car radio this morning :D19:29
AppiahI want aux in >_>19:29
* frals slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout19:29
* Noobmonk3y giggles19:29
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Noobmonk3yafternoon frals19:31
fralsello mate, hows you?19:31
DocScrutinizerdrizztbsd: aux cable? take care of gnd loops!19:31
povbotBug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available19:31
drizztbsdDocScrutinizer: what?19:31
TiagoTiagoko, it now says  ig got 41 not fully installed or removed,, any way to fix them all instead of having to remove them one by one?19:31
DocScrutinizerAV GND != USB GND19:31
FrieTcould anyone guide me through what the quickest way is to get this one library compiled?19:31
FrieTscratchbox? or is there a faster way?19:32
MNZpupnik, remember this?
drizztbsdDocScrutinizer: so?19:32
DocScrutinizeruse a 60Ohm 1:1 audio transformer19:32
pupnikyes MNZ ?19:32
MNZpupnik, any ideas if this was recorded or posted somewhere?19:33
pupniki was very tired on sunday19:33
drizztbsdor it will explode? :P19:33
DocScrutinizerdrizztbsd: or you'll get crappy sound, humm, noise, and possibly device breakage yeah19:34
* ShadowJK gets humm through unconnected headphones19:35
ShadowJKmy house is eivl19:35
DocScrutinizerdrizztbsd: though odds are your car stereo has built in measure to deal with this19:35
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DocScrutinizerdrizztbsd: check resistance and voltage from car stereo input GND to general car GND19:36
DocScrutinizerdrizztbsd: or simply do not connect to car charger19:36
RST38hmooo, punks19:36
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drizztbsduhm bad19:36
DocScrutinizermoo nerd19:37
* RST38h stabs Doc with a screwdriver19:37
DocScrutinizerohnoes, you're ruining the tool, you bastard!19:38
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lcukhrm, DocScrutinizer given a list of things outputted by a shell command, i want to pipe that into some other unix command and convert the crlf into spaces19:41
lcukso that:19:41
lcukoone two three19:41
RST38hlcuk: xargs19:43
lcukRST38h, :D19:43
RST38hyou are welcome19:43
* RST38h is installing the rootstrap19:44
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* Noobmonk3y rootstraps frals19:44
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kerioDocScrutinizer: wait, what19:46
drizztbsdDocScrutinizer: if I have 0 ohm and 0 volts between my general gnd and aux gnd, i'm ok?19:46
kerioour car has a aux port19:47
drizztbsdi have a fiesta lol19:47
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kerioi trust M-B19:47
drizztbsdwith default radio :)19:47
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drizztbsdi go to home, bye19:51
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DocScrutinizerdrizztbsd: nope, that's exactly what gives you headache19:52
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* Chibi-Taiga -< MPClassic >-< [HorribleSubs] Bleach - 287 [720p].mkv >-< Playtime 03:06 of 24:04 @ ~198.35KB/s (279.71MB) >-< ( N/A ) >-19:55
Chibi-Taigayaya bleach filler19:55
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SWFuanyone give me a clue to why this is happening? umount: cannot umount /media/mmc1: Invalid argument20:01
tank-manmaybe its in use20:01
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SpeedEvilmaybe it's not mounted20:05
vanadismobileanybody tried PSFreedom on N900?20:05
SpeedEvilThe author probably has, for one.20:07
* SpeedEvil forgets who it was.20:07
SpeedEvilMNZ: ?20:07
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MNZvanadismobile, for the record though, a bunch of people have tried it and it's confirmed to work. You need to have firmware version 3.41 though. See
tank-manworks for n800 too20:09
vanadismobilemy brother has a ps3, gonna try it next time20:10
luke-jrI'm back20:10
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lcukJaffa, well the intent is to solicit some input on the feasiblity first, which is ongoing.  its not anything new and something I tried to bring up at the last meeting until all talk of growth development was poopood.  it certainly looks like there are some people available and time to do things and I wonder whether its possible to actually try something different20:16
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Noobmonk3yhow do i create a new "user" on the n900?20:18
Noobmonk3yie i want a user called user to connect to via esbox/etc20:19
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DocScrutinizerNoobmonk3y: eh?20:19
mgedminthe n900 has a user called 'user' predefined20:19
Noobmonk3ycan i reset the password or find it out?20:19
DocScrutinizerNoobmonk3y: isn't there a user called user ?20:19
mgedminby default the account is locked and has no password20:19
Noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer, wouldnt have a clue, thats why i ask you clever people!20:20
mgedminyou can set a password to it with becoming rood and running 'passwd user'20:20
mgedminbetter yet, unlock the account and upload a ssh key20:20
DocScrutinizerNoobmonk3y: reset 'user' password? root; passwd user20:20
Noobmonk3ycheers mgedmin! tried passwd, and succeeded in changing my root password, lol20:20
Jaffalcuk: It seems odd to be discussing it with individuals though20:20
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Jaffalcuk: Especially since the paid team seem to have no time :(20:21
lcukJaffa, not really20:21
lcuki talk to many people20:21
lcuki talked about it in here earlier20:21
crashanddieEvery now and then20:21
crashanddieI'm ashamed of the things I write20:21
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* DocScrutinizer takes a few pills to survive that20:21
Jaffacrashanddie: backup path parsing?20:21
* joga makes a mental replace operation20:21
lcukJaffa, i just sent a mail off with some notes in it and a discussion started20:22
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MNZcrashanddie, how about replacing all those '[0-9]' with '\d' ?20:23
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crashanddiegrep doesn't take it20:23
Jaffacrashanddie: first part is yyyy_MM_dd fairly obviously (though the day & month part of it could be tightened up)20:23
crashanddieMNZ: I wrote it nicely in a regex editor, now I have to junk it20:23
mgedminah, the fun of multiple incompatible regex dialects20:24
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mgedminI'm a regex editor skeptic myself20:24
crashanddieThis was it originally: (\d{4}_\d{2}_\d{2})\.v_(\d_\d_\d_\d)(?:_|system|([a-z]+))+(bin|lib)_(\d{2}|app)\.tar\.bz220:24
MNZcrashanddie, enable perl regexp, grep -P20:24
crashanddieMNZ: NOW HE TELLS ME?20:24
crashanddieI'm out, going home, comitting everything to git repo (I love having a local gitorious server)20:25
mgedmin(busybox grep has no -P)20:25
DocScrutinizerfsck messybox, get decent tools20:25
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DocScrutinizermessybox isn't meant to be used interactively20:26
Chibi-Taigamust say , n900 is bad at connecting to pc20:26
microlithhow are you trying to connect it?20:27
crashanddiefeck it, weather is too bad, leaving all the computers at work20:27
Chibi-Taigajust with the usb cable20:27
DocScrutinizerno, *you* are bad at connecting N900 to PC20:27
crashanddiesee you tomorrow guys20:27
MNZcrashanddie, c ya20:27
microlithChibi-Taiga: Ah, you're probably trying to use the Nokia PC suite junk20:27
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lcukJaffa, can you round up some devs to see about implementing some of the hildon brainstorm options?20:28
Chibi-Taigaboth options has troubles20:28
FrieThmmm any way to get my SMS messages from symbian s60r3 onto maemo?20:28
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FrieTcopy to sim is no option, there's too many of em20:29
lcukbecause thats lacking from the team as I see it broken down20:29
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lcukand something community is very good at20:29
DocScrutinizerthere's wifi (simple as milk), modem tethering, ass rage mode, and usb networking. For all of that there are pretty detailed wikipages20:29
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lcukespecially considering Mark Shuttleworth is actively telling people not to do, we should be finding and utilising all the dev help we can20:30
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fralsmark who?20:32
lcuk( see this for sillyness )20:32
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lcukubuntu guy20:32
lcuktelling a dev he would rather he not touch the code and learn gimp instead20:32
* lcuk facepalmed at that20:32
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DocScrutinizer""I'm not interested in the prototype! You got a sketch of that?""20:34
* MohammadAG51 curses at bug 1075220:34
povbotBug segfault with PyQt + hildon20:34
lcukJaffa, to have a chance with community dev and ssu down the line we need to get the principles in place now, and MohammadAG51's start amongst other lesser known hildon hacking is extremely useful on this20:35
lcukgetting more people onboard and a solid verifiable git repo and processes is important20:35
lcukmaking use of all the facilities of garage should be the done thing really ;)20:35
MohammadAG51i'm restarting the repository btw20:36
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I want matan's HDM-extensions!20:36
lcukyes DocScrutinizer his keyboard patch is cool!20:36
lcukif I am thinking of the right one20:36
lcuki think so20:36
MohammadAG51i love those :p20:36
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MohammadAG51infobot, seen Matan20:37
DocScrutinizer^BS works like a real tab on a real desktop20:37
infobotmatan <n=matan@> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 222d 2h 34m 29s ago, saying: 'GeneralAntilles: What?'.20:37
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MohammadAG51hmm, less than a year, there's hope20:37
MohammadAG51222d, what a coincidence :p20:37
* MohammadAG51 imports hildon and watches the interpreter segfault20:38
MohammadAG51excuse my language, how the fuck does noobmonk3y import it20:38
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frals"If we import hildon after creating the QApplication object, it does not crash20:38
fralsand apparently is able to enter the Qt main loop calling exec_ method.20:38
lcukhe uses a pair of trout as spreaders20:38
DocScrutinizer  for the logs20:38
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MohammadAG51frals, i did that, I think20:39
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fralsshow code then ;)20:39
MohammadAG51i took the take_ss code from fmms20:39
MohammadAG51then tied it to a button20:39
MohammadAG51when clicking that, the app segfaults20:39
frals(show code)20:39
* MohammadAG51 throws a trout at frals20:39
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sp3000man I hate perl20:41
MohammadAG51nice, browserd crashed20:41
MNZsp3000, and perl hates you20:41
sp3000I know it does20:41
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* DocScrutinizer snatches away trout from frals and grlls it over a bonfire in the garden20:42
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tobis87Anyone brave enough to test swap encryption with overlaying compcache? Here is the modification done to the bootscript: and here are all required files, including src:
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tobis87i don't have another way to host it, but it also includes src if you don't trust it.20:44
MohammadAG51nah I don't have trust issues with anyone :P20:44
lcuktobis87, i tried wget'ing the source20:44
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lcukbut it gave me some stupid html stuff20:44
MohammadAG51you can't wget from rs :p20:44
MohammadAG51You need a premium account for that20:45
MohammadAG51open in the browser, hit free user, wait 60 seconds, download using cookie20:45
tobis87I first wanted to put it on mediafire, but it is somehow down20:45
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tobis87The modules are against the stock kernel.20:46
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lcukclosed your pm MohammadAG5120:47
jophishHi all!20:48
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jophishI was here yesterday with a problem about getting dun working20:48
jophishand I'm here now to say that all is well20:48
MohammadAG51lcuk, capiche20:48
jophishIT's going great20:48
jophishthanks for the help, unremembered nicks20:48
* lcuk reopens it now20:49
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Chibi-Taigaabout ApMeFo how do i add apps ?20:51
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Chibi-Taigaby add app i dont see any apps20:52
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Chibi-Taigaanyone can help me ?20:58
lcukChibi-Taiga, have you got any new ones to add20:59
lcukor are they already all in use20:59
* Noobmonk3y returns...21:00
lcukin other menus..21:00
tobis87lcuk: It uses Twofish now, because it is as fast as Aes with hw accel. and it is stable. Have you tried it?21:00
* Noobmonk3y spanks frals with MohammadAG51 21:00
* lcuk doesnt know if thats the reason21:00
Chibi-Taigahuh ? i created a folder and want to add applications21:00
* frals slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout21:00
Chibi-Taigabut they dont show up in add app21:00
lcukand i wont try that on main machine just yet tobis8721:00
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lcukChibi-Taiga, IDK21:00
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Chibi-Taigai follow this gui but i dont know what i do wrong21:02
tobis87I don't have a problem booting the N900, even without swap, maybe because I don't have any widgets on the desktop.21:02
tobis87If you have tried it and want to revert the changes, the diffs of the scripts are also inside the src folder and make sure to format the swap partition again (mkswap /dev/mmcblk0p3)21:04
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FrieThow often are binary builds into .deb's being done?21:06
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lcukmodest was disucssed21:09
povbotBug 10390: Selection of text is impossible once the email is scrolled21:09
lcukand a patch showing it would be good21:09
lcukso we need to highlight this bug amongst the open "what can you help with" posts21:09
FrieTanyone? how long before an update in the sources makes it into extras-devel in general?21:10
SWFuCan someone have a look at thisplase and tell me if it's fixable . I'm starting to think there is something up with this sd card21:11
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lcukFrieT, usually ~60mins21:11
lcuksometimes less21:11
FrieTokay weird21:12
lcukdid you get the build OK mails?21:12
FrieTwhat am i missing?21:12
lcukhave oyu checked cauldron?21:12
FrieTwait, you mistake me for someone with a clue;)21:12
povbotBug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available21:12
FrieTthis is what i'm looking for:)21:12
FrieTstatus is fixed21:12
FrieTwondering where it is21:12
lcukevery build through the autobuilder is logged in here21:13
lcukyou should get mails from the autobuilder21:13
lcukindicating stage success21:13
tobis87SWFu: Have you tried to repartitionate your n900?21:13
lcukif you had none, you probably fdidnt click the final button on the upload wizard interface21:13
FrieTlcuk: ty21:13
SWFuIt's an SD card21:13
FrieTi didn't commit anything there lcuk21:13
FrieTi just seem to hit a bug21:13
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FrieTwhich has been reported21:14
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fralsand was reported fixed in PR1.221:16
FrieTwhich is totall yweird21:16
FrieTsince i'm running 1.2 obviously21:16
fralsso unless you havent updated to PR1.2 you should have it on your device already...21:16
FrieTyet i'm seeing exactly this behaviour21:17
tobis87SWFu: Oh, right. I have no idea... You could overwrite the partiton table and mbr of the card with dd bs=512 count=62 if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk121:18
lcukFrieT, frals whats this about21:19
fralsuh my bad FrieT, its not marked as released, hence you would have to build the package yourself, i guess...21:19
lcuki misunderstood the start i believe21:19
povbotBug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available21:19
tobis87and recreate the partitions, don't know if the n900 has fdisk. But you could do this on a pc as well.21:19
fralsits about that bug lcuk21:19
fralsie status of it21:19
FrieTok darn.21:19
fralsit has PR1.2 milestone but not so sure it was released with PR1.221:19
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FrieTanyone with a working dev setup able to feed me the necessary binary? :\21:20
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lcukfrals, ping me about this bug in the morning21:21
FrieTwould that be friet or frals?21:22
fralsquery me with link and ill do it lcuk21:22
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lcukok frals21:23
lcukFrieT, will examine what happened to that bug tomorrow for you21:24
FrieTyou're my hero :)21:24
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alteregoAlmost finished implementing the whole of the SiRF NMEA subset21:26
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alteregoSo at leat any devices that ca use SiRF GPS' should work with my code.21:26
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Tunaugh flakeyflakey21:36
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Tunathere i go ! :)21:40
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FrieTthe sip client ain't that bad after all; apart from some annoying echo21:45
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FrieTif only we get the PA cpuhog fixed21:45
MohammadAG51frals, never willa I wank... err, play fps with a controller again :P21:47
pupnikhear hear FrieT21:47
FrieTMohammadAG51: try a joystick21:47
FrieTpreferrably a water/lube-proof one </offtopic>21:48
pupnikFrieT: the place to get involved helping PA is meego-arm21:48
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FrieTyou mean that's where i can go to shoot everyone working on it so it gets replaced by, say, something sane?21:49
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pupnikI can't comment on the quality of it.  Just observing that it uses too much cpu by a factor of 10x21:50
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FrieTmmm *nods* :)21:50
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: how comes you think PA == meego?21:55
pupniki don't21:56
DocScrutinizerpupnik: au contraire - it seems #meego-arm hasn't bothered at all yet about the cpu hog speaker protection we got in maemo PA21:56
pupnikwell that's one place where i think this discussion and any work also belongs21:57
pupnikbecause now is the time to affect change in the OS, not after it ships21:57
MohammadAG51FrieT, eh? :P21:58
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DocScrutinizerIf I want to get rid of maemo cpu hogs, how can participating in meego help? it's quite evident they don't plan *any* kind of (knowledge/code) backport21:58
* luke-jr notes it probably would use less CPU to just do everything in software with ALSA21:59
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DocScrutinizerand for the changes in meego prior to when it ships: all I ever heard in #meego-meeting and related, also and particularly on asking about if PA etc is a good architecture and whether it'd be worth to re-evaluate and discuss alternatives, was "wait till we ship, then come back with patches" (translates to: fuck off)22:01
luke-jrwow, fail22:01
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: that's pretty hilarious22:05
alteregootoh, the october release of MeeGo (1.1?) wont run on any device except N900 and Aava aiui22:06
timelesshey, maep is amazing22:07
FrieTmaep ?22:07
luke-jrsome program22:08
FrieTif it's amazing i want it!22:08
timelessit's free, just a small download away22:08
FrieTi'd rather yap than download22:08
FrieTwhat does the prog do?:)22:09
timelesshandle gps/maps plus wikipedia integration for location22:09
timelessit also gets direction right, and has a ui that just works22:09
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w4rr10ri've just come thought the website22:12
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alteregoAlmost ready to start streaming my NMEA telemetry from N900 to my laptop, though I think I'll finish it tomorrow.22:14
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w4rr10ri had n800 a long time ago, then lost it and now bought *my* old one, i'd love to know, how it has been used for that time22:14
SpeedEvilwhy alrte?22:14
alteregoWell, I've been coding for over 12 hours now :P22:14
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w4rr10rcan someone tell me, please, where should i look for the most interesting logs?22:15
alteregoI'm hoping the 7 NMEA messages I'm implementing are enough22:16
alteregoFor 3rd party GPS software that is.22:16
kerioDocScrutinizer: haha what22:16
timeless/var/log ??22:16
timelessor perhaps, "the internet" (with your favorite search engine) ??22:16
SpeedEvilalterego: Ah - GPSd basically22:17
alteregoA fun test will be getting my N900 to act as a bluetooth GPS for my N810 :/22:17
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alteregoThat was supposed to me a smilie :D22:17
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alteregoSpeedEvil: GPSd doesn't work on the N900, this is part of my GPS app, it will log or stream via bluetooth, tcp or udp.22:19
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alteregoIn various different formats though NMEA is the only one I've implemented so far.22:19
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SpeedEvilalterego: yes - that's what I mean.22:20
SpeedEvilalterego: you're implementing something akin to gpsd22:20
SpeedEvilIndeed - gpsd supports non NMEA gpss.22:20
alteregoWell, this is output, not input22:21
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alteregoThe idea being to use the N900 as a bluetooth GPS (for this specific feature)22:21
alteregoMy app is a stand alone navigation app, I'm just adding streaming over BT and network to it for giggles.22:22
Chibi-Taigawhats the command in x-terminal as replacement for "dir"22:22
alteregoChibi-Taiga: ``ls''22:23
SpeedEvilyeah - gpsd does that though.22:23
alteregoSure, but not on the N900,22:23
SpeedEvilI mean if you taughg GPSd aboutr how to read from the GPS, wouldn't that 'just work' ?22:23
crashanddie_Chibi-Taiga, it's really not "a replacement"22:23
alteregoand my app will run on anything with Qt Mobility.22:23
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jogayeah "dir" is pretty futile in comparison to ls but so is every other dos/windows shell command :)22:24
crashanddie_prefer the word... "equivalent"22:24
luke-jralterego: doable22:25
luke-jralterego: gpsd works on my N900 ;)22:25
luke-jralterego: I have NMEA working somewhat *without* Maemo22:26
alteregoluke-jr: You can use the inbuilt gps chip on the N900 to stream out NMEA through gpsd?22:26
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crashanddie_MohammadAG, you fraud22:27
luke-jralterego: yes22:28
luke-jror NMEA without gpsd22:28
alteregoluke-jr: how?22:28
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MohammadAGcrashanddie_, gtfo :P22:31
alteregoluke-jr: ah yes, did you manage to ascertain the sat info yet?22:31
luke-jralterego: everything22:31
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sevardomg this bonzi buddy thing is so cool22:31
luke-jralterego: although the horiz/vert accuracy is "missing" from gpsd for some reason22:31
luke-jrso presumably the NMEA has a bug22:31
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alteregoDo you know if that code will work under MeeGo?22:32
luke-jrI don't know22:32
luke-jrif MeeGo leaves the GPS alone, it should22:32
alteregoI'm just wondering if it can work around ofono22:32
luke-jrwell, MeeGo also must bring the modem up too22:32
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alteregoYeah, that aspect works, ofono works in  MeeGo currently with calls and data22:33
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VenemoMeeGo can call now?22:33
Venemonews to me22:34
alteregoIt's not working out-of-the box yet, but it has been working.22:34
alteregoI think StsKeeps mentioned it22:34
Venemoso, does the MeeGo Handset UX now have a working Phone application?22:34
alteregoKind of yes.22:35
alteregoNot sure audio is working yet to decode the call thoguh ;)22:35
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Venemolol :D22:35
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TiagoTiagohm, finally internet is back22:39
Chibi-Taigathose mafw-playlist how can i copy them ?22:39
TiagoTiagowhen i run apt-get update it shows a bunch of text and in the end complains about somthing and tells me to run apt-get update to fix it :(22:40
Chibi-Taigawhen i ls the mafw... i get numbers 1-522:40
Chibi-Taigawhat can i do with them22:40
crashanddie_oh yeah, TiagoTiago, now there's an accurate description...22:40
TiagoTiagook, sec, firing up xchat on the de vice itself22:41
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crashanddie_TiagoTiago, no pasting over 3 lines!22:41
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Venemoalterego: this is good news22:43
TiagoTiago_W: Conflicting distribution: fremantle-1.2 Release (expected fremantle-1.2 but got )22:43
Venemoalterego: very good news, actually22:43
TiagoTiago_missing one line22:43
alteregoVenemo: I know :) I can't wait until it all starts working properly :)22:43
alteregoGonna have to start writing some apps to migrate data over from Maemo to MeeGo though22:43
TiagoTiago_W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems22:43
alteregolike my contacts DB etc.22:43
Venemoalterego: yeah, Me Go to MeeGo once it is complete22:44
TiagoTiagothat after running the exact command it tells me to run to fix the problem22:44
Venemoalterego: we will still have to make both .rpm and .deb packages though...22:44
alteregoIndeed, hopefully Qt Creator will deal with that though :)22:44
TiagoTiago_how can i fix this?22:45
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Venemoalterego: if it' gonna "deal" with it as it deals with Maemo 5 .debs right now... then no thanks :P22:46
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alteregoVenemo: well, it's getting better, at least in 2.0.1 I can disable packaging step now :)22:47
alteregoI've been factoring some of my code into libs and it can't handle making libs ..22:47
Venemoalterego: yes! that was a big plus in 2.0.1!22:47
alteregoKeeps trying to copy a ghost exe into the packaging dir.22:47
Venemoalterego: actually, I requested that feature :)22:47
Venemoalterego: the problem is, I occasionally forget to disable it for new projects22:47
alteregoI've not got, RXGeoWidgets which contains my custom widgets to do with geo location, like mapping, compasses, satellite monitoring etc.22:48
alteregoAnd I've got my libRXSupport lib which contains all my Maemo hacks and boiler plate.22:48
alteregos/not/now ..22:49
Venemoalterego: is the stuff in Extras?22:49
Chibi-Taigahow come my sd is write protected ?22:49
alteregoNo, none of my Columbus stuff is in extras.22:49
alteregoI'm still debating publishing to Ovi or making it FOSS22:49
alteregothe support lib needs a bit of tidying, and then that can go FOSS22:49
alteregoCurrently contains: DraggableViewArea, Maemo5Dialog, Maemo5FullScreenButton, Maemo5MainWindow, Maemo5MenuButton22:50
alteregoThe MainWindow class pulls in the other classes to make a neat MainWindow parent class for maemo apps, allowing you to do swipe to scroll between views (kind of like fcam and the home screen) and also automatically handle fullscreen mode.22:51
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Venemoalterego: hm. sounds good22:55
Venemoalterego: maybe we should have a common library?22:55
ArkenoiStrange. I turned PIN code request on and n900 won't boot until i put sim card into a different phone and turn it off.22:56
Venemoalterego: I mean, I also have some stuff, already in extras though22:56
alteregoWell, I'll publish the code and you can have a play with it and let me know what you think.22:56
Venemoalterego: it would be good :)22:57
alteregoI'd be more interested in getting feedback from the API perspective before publishing it for mass consumption.22:57
alteregoAnyhow, bbl22:57
Venemoalterego: also for other developers it would be more easy to have only one library22:57
Venemoalterego: now I also rolled in my other things to the library22:58
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RST38hArkenoi: You have got a weird SIM card23:00
ArkenoiRST38h: nothing really special, pretty generic "Green" one with alpha sign on chip contacts, stores up to 12 imsi/ki pairs23:01
Arkenoiworks excellent in any phone23:02
Arkenoibut i feel uncomfortable about my key pair not being protected23:02
Venemoalterego: do you feel like checking it out?23:02
Venemoalterego: it still needs work, but it's a good start23:02
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RST38hArkenoi: but somehow needs a shutdown :)23:03
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RST38hArkenoi: does this by they way mean you can use the same card with two providers at the same time?23:03
RST38hand if so, how do you switch between imsis?23:03
ArkenoiRST38h: well, it behaves a bit odd in the phone23:03
ArkenoiRST38h: not with n900, i use sim menu for it23:03
RST38hJust use a standard card...23:04
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Arkenoiand the "oddity" is that n900 always resets active key pair to "number 1", so i can use only one number there23:04
RST38hstandard, dumb, one-imsi card, preferably NOT from Megafon ;)23:04
RST38hArkenoi: n900 prolly does not know much about multiple IMSIs and starts by resetting the card23:05
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SpeedEvilAnd in my case - bending the SIM contacts out means that I realiserd thart I actually have a decent signal in my house23:05
Arkenoirst38h: i cannot. if i order a standard card i surrender my key info control to cellular operator and cannot ever take it back as modern cards have brute force protection23:05
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Arkenoirst38h: and my old one-IMSI card is 12 years old , 5V and behaves no good either23:06
timelesshow did you manage to get control in the first place?23:06
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Arkenoii used it for a while but today i had problems with sending SMS so i switched back23:06
TiagoTiagoseems somthing is borked with the apt stuff in my N900 :(23:07
Arkenoitimeless, i have a SIM card reader and application that cracks IMSI/Ki pairs out of there23:07
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Arkenoidoes not work with most modern cards but lucky me had plenty of old ones23:07
RST38hArkenoi: ah you crafty enemy of the state23:08
Arkenoiso i just plug the damn thing into USB and wait hour or two for weak crypto to be defeated23:09
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Arkenoiand then i have the keys!23:09
FrieTand then mayhem?23:10
RST38hArkenoi: Adding support for IMSI switch to N900 is gonna be a feat =)23:10
RST38hBut probably worth it, as N900 will the be able to replace those multi-SIM business phones23:10
SpeedEvilIt would be awesome.23:10
SpeedEvilBut does any provider in the worls actually do multi IMSIs?23:11
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ArkenoiRST38h, there is nothing special about IMSI switch, it is just standard "SIM menu" api present in most phones, the switch itself and menu are implemented in card firmware23:11
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RST38hyes, but n900 cannot run card apps, can it?23:11
timelessthe menu stuff is just ugly23:11
SpeedEvilis what would be nice23:11
Arkenoiit cannot :-(23:12
timelessbut it shouldn't be impossible to implement23:12
ArkenoiI guess it is relatively simple as *any* dumb phone supports it23:12
TiagoTiagois the sim card interface int he N900 also hidden behind closed source firmware?23:12
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SpeedEvilIsn't sim menu completely impossible to implement as it's closed firmeare?23:12
SpeedEvilThat is - for anyone other than nokia23:13
timelesstiago: the phone is hidden behind firmware, yes23:13
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TiagoTiagoi mean the actual interface with the card23:13
timelessonly at* commands it supports are exposed23:13
FrieTdon't nokia test some of the community stuff on their own networks?23:13
timelessfriet: eh?23:13
trumeetimeless: hey23:13
FrieThow about backdooring it, getting the sources, off ya go?23:13
* timeless waves from, um23:13
TiagoTiagolike, would one be able to  sniff the raw data from those llittle prongs and inject custom bits back?23:14
timeless.. east of warwick23:14
* trumee is a guy who always moan about sip bugs in N90023:14
timelessfriet: some of us work for nokia23:14
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: You cannot do that.23:14
timelesswe don't appreciate suggestions of corporate espionage23:14
FrieTah well then that sucks23:14
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: Unless you have hardware.23:14
TiagoTiagoI mean with just the N900 itself23:15
FrieTopen the sources already!:p23:15
trumeetimeless: any update on int-171987 :)23:15
SpeedEvilOpen sourced firmware, with nokia actually accepting pushes23:15
TiagoTiagothere are stuff they can't because of laws, and stuff they can't because of competitors, and stuff they can't because it isn't theirs23:15
timelesstrumee: sorry, i got an email indicating my account was locked23:15
timelessit happened on the first day of my vacation23:16
trumeetimeless: you are on vacation?23:16
timelessi can' do anything until i return :)23:16
TiagoTiagoare you getting canned? o.o23:16
timelesshence me waving from warwick23:16
trumeetimeless: ah. cool. no worries.23:16
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RST38hOk, SIM Toolkitrequires direct interface to the SIM card (as in SmartCard interface)23:16
RST38hSo, if this can be exposed safely on the N900, SIM apps may be within reach23:17
timelesstiago: there's a mandatory password rotation policy (just add 1)23:17
timelessi rely on password resets instead23:17
timelessbut they only happen after lockout23:17
timelessand i saw this one coming and grinned23:17
TiagoTiagoi didn't got an answer, is the actual hardware in the N900 that talks with the SIM protected behind a layer of closed source firmware?23:17
timelessit meant that anyone asking me about the bug tracker on my vacation would @get te answer trumee just got :)23:19
timelesstiago: cellmo is closed23:19
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timelessnot absolutely certaimn where simaccess lives23:19
TiagoTiagoah, so it's ont he same side of the fence as the modem ? :(23:19
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timelessactually, i have absolutely no idea where it lives :)23:20
timelessbut i know where i'd put it :)23:20
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TiagoTiagounknown is better than certainly bad :)23:20
lcuktimeless, you won't get a signal if you put it up there23:20
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RST38hlcuk: Actuall, he will23:22
RST38hBut BlueTooth communications may become compromised23:22
TiagoTiagocan those contacts under the battery be controlled by custom software or they too are behind closed firmware?23:22
RST38hafaik that is a serial port23:23
TiagoTiagoi think there is more than one, two types if i'm not mistaken, an old one and a newer one23:23
jacekowskithere is fbus/mbus port directly to rapuyama23:25
jacekowskiand serial port directly to rapuyama23:25
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jacekowskias well as serial port for main processor23:25
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: and now going to your question23:26
jacekowski22:17 < TiagoTiago> i didn't got an answer, is the actual hardware in the N900 that talks with the SIM protected behind a layer of closed source firmware?23:26
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: n900 have two ARM based processors23:26
jacekowskione, main application processor omap323:27
jacekowskiwhich runs linux and manages phone as a whole23:27
jacekowskiand second23:27
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jacekowskiomap2 - rapuyama which is modem23:27
jacekowskiin normal phone rapuyama runs whole phone23:27
jacekowskiin n900 rapuyama just communicate with gps and with sim and gsm/3g network23:28
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keriojacekowski: we really need to hack rapuyama23:29
luke-jrmodem is ARM too?23:29
TiagoTiagowould it be possible to patch those two serials together so the main processor skisp some steps and talks with rapu?23:29
keriomodem is ARM too23:29
kerioand quite capable23:29
RST38hok, so where is cellmo  in this picture?23:29
* luke-jr wonders if modem could replace the main CPU23:29
luke-jrRST38h: rapuyama/modem = cellmo23:29
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kerioluke-jr: nah, stuff still has to go through the main cpu23:29
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SpeedEvilRST38h: The cellmo - rapuyama - is a seperate ARM core - ...23:29
SpeedEvilyeah - that23:29
jacekowskimodem have no connection to lcd and emmc23:29
kerionot sure why we *need* a rapuyama, actually23:29
RST38hgot it23:30
SpeedEvilkerio: because it's the guts of the cellmo23:30
TiagoTiagoso the important stuff can stay hidden23:30
SpeedEvilkerio: It does all the hard-real-time shit.23:30
keriowho cares, we already have a cpu23:30
luke-jrkerio: CPU isn't connected to GPS nor radio23:30
kerioit's just the stupid FCC that wants a separate chip to test because they don't want users to dick around with their crappy network23:30
TiagoTiagoi imaigne it would be much easier to reverse engineer and hack if it was in the same processor as the rest of the system23:30
SpeedEvilkerio: It's not.23:31
SpeedEvilkerio: It significantly complicates the software stack if it's on one CPU23:31
keriobut it reduces power consumption and space needed23:31
TiagoTiagoah, not designed with m ultitasking etc in mind?23:31
keriowhich lets you use a bigger cpu23:31
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: you can open rapuyama firmware in a disassembler23:31
SpeedEvilkerio: It means that you can't simply design the 'smartphone' part of the OS.23:31
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kerioSpeedEvil: phoned23:31
TiagoTiagoor rather, the -phone part23:32
FrieTemm what part of "speech goes via PA" is "smartphone"? :\23:32
SpeedEvilthe ass-hat part.23:32
keriothe dumb part23:32
jacekowskido you have to wake up main processor to do dma?23:33
SpeedEviljacekowski: I believe so.23:33
jacekowskior you can just wake up part responsible for doing dma23:33
SpeedEviljacekowski: But I've not looked at irt very closely.23:33
SpeedEvilThe 'main processor' is a lie.23:33
jacekowskibecause then it could be possible to have rapuyama running phone23:33
SpeedEvilThere are eleventy different little bits.23:34
jacekowskiwhen in some sort of dumbphone mode23:34
FrieTthat'd be cool:)23:34
FrieTmake its tiny battery last more than 5 hours:)23:34
TiagoTiagowhile you're at it, also include some facilities to reflash without needing another computer :P23:35
FrieToh and the screen wipe cloth23:35
FrieTmake it bigger!23:35
jacekowskii wipe screen with my shirt23:35
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FrieTwhat, i seriously noticed they shrinked that thing compared to the e61 :P23:35
kerioi wipe screen with my hand23:35
FrieTi don't wipe my screen23:36
jacekowskiand i don't use screen protectors23:36
FrieTi lick it23:36
kerioi do the same with my glasses actually23:36
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keriowhich sorta balances out the problem23:36
keriobecause i can't tell if it's the screen or my glasses that are dirty23:36
jacekowskii don't use protection at all23:36
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keriojacekowski: you don't need it huh23:36
TiagoTiagomy screen got tiny scrtatches that make me cringe when my nails or the stylus move over them, and i haven't managed to stick the screen gard thingy without lots of bubbles andi think i might have ruined it, it's filled with dust on both sides :(23:36
kerioTiagoTiago: get FrieT's insurance, then throw your n900 from your window23:37
FrieTcoffee is more reliable23:37
FrieTless weird23:37
FrieThappens all the time23:37
FrieT"i just had to throw it" might not fly well23:37
FrieTalthough "a truck drove over it" will work23:37
TiagoTiagoremember to drop it after it is warm with charge and still plugged int he charger23:37
FrieTah yes23:38
TiagoTiagoi mena, the coffee23:38
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: I recommend getting 10 protectors from ebay.23:38
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SpeedEvillike that23:38
TiagoTiagodo they cover bathroom acidents?23:38
FrieTyes they do23:38
FrieT"it slipped into the toilet" is covered23:39
FrieTprovided you don't flush23:39
jacekowskii have insurance from my bank23:39
TiagoTiagosay you were playing while you were goin N2 and a moneter sneaked on you and you dropped23:39
jacekowskias freebie to my account23:39
jacekowskiand everything is covered23:39
FrieTthey cover it unless it's fraudulent23:39
TiagoTiagohow can they tell a monster didn't sneak on you while you were going #2?23:40
FrieTso as long as it's not "i dropped it to test the insurance", it's fine23:40
FrieTmake sure you don't do that every week and yo'ure fine.23:40
TiagoTiagoremember to smear it with some human dung to make it more believeable23:40
FrieTas if they're going to test what species it's from23:40
* FrieT rolls eyes23:40
FrieTwow, verisign really became superfast since they're taken over by symantec23:41
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FrieTi suppose now they have to virusscan their invoices for 2 weeks before releasing em23:41
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FrieTso anyhow, anyone got bochs running yet?23:42
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Jartzatomorrow is the last day of my maemo-course-"pipe"23:55
Jartza27 days in 4 months23:56
Jartzanice to go home for a while23:56
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* Noobmonk3y grumbles23:57
lcukwhats up there mr Noobmonk3y23:58
Noobmonk3ywine, wine and more wine!23:59
lcukoh thats an idea23:59
Noobmonk3ypity bacon wine just doesnt work...........23:59
Noobmonk3ykerio... true......23:59

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