| npt | I didn't want to make any maemo people mad | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| npt | : ) | 00:00 |
| npt | thanks DocScrutinizer | 00:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | np | 00:00 |
| npt | I am so excited to meet the man himself! | 00:00 |
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| KaKaRoTo | npt, http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n810/psfreedom.ko | 00:02 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, download that and put it in your n800 | 00:02 |
| npt | KaKaRoTo, it's that easy? | 00:02 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, then edit the file /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh and add at the very top : | 00:02 |
| npt | : ) | 00:02 |
| npt | ahh | 00:02 |
| npt | listening | 00:02 |
| KaKaRoTo | insmod /root/psfreedom.ko | 00:02 |
| KaKaRoTo | exit 1 | 00:02 |
| KaKaRoTo | save, reboot, try it | 00:03 |
| KaKaRoTo | that easy | 00:03 |
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| npt | may I ask | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | KaKaRoTo: you actually have to click "ass rage" on the menu, to enable ps-freedom then, or is that even before menu pops up? | 00:04 |
| npt | does your's allow backups to run or homebrea, or does that have to do with the ps3 backup manager? | 00:04 |
| KaKaRoTo | ass rage? :| | 00:04 |
| npt | hombrew | 00:05 |
| KaKaRoTo | and what menu ? | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Mass STOrage | 00:05 |
| npt | homebrew | 00:05 |
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| midas_ | meh | 00:05 |
| npt | I am saying, does your's allow backups to run, or just homebrew? | 00:05 |
| GAN900 | You people are weird. | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | the menu on N900 that usually pops up when you connect to host | 00:05 |
| midas_ | im gonna replace my n900 | 00:05 |
| npt | or is that more related to the backup managed on the ps3? | 00:05 |
| KaKaRoTo | DocScrutinizer, ah, no, that's for n810, the script gets run at boot :) | 00:05 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, it's such a common type I think infobot should pick on it and automatically do a 'User meant:' | 00:05 |
| MNZ | common typo* | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | KaKaRoTo: aaah I see | 00:06 |
| midas_ | htc desire z or a motorola droid 2, hard choice again | 00:06 |
| KaKaRoTo | DocScrutinizer, and I only do it because if the g_file_storage module gets loaded it screws up the controller | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ass rage is Mass STOrage | 00:06 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | midas_: equally hard to get good advice for that choice here in this chan | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | ~ass | 00:08 |
| infobot | ass is, like, titties,ass and titties. ass and titties. oh yes. | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | ~ass rage | 00:08 |
| infobot | i guess ass rage is Mass STOrage | 00:08 |
| midas_ | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but im kinda done with nokia and the lack of support | 00:08 |
| lcuk | midas_, when did you not get support? | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm sad to hear that, but hnestly what can we do? | 00:09 |
| midas_ | nothing | 00:09 |
| npt | KaKaRoTo, I am still curious, does your port allow backups to run, or just homebrew which I would be fine with, or is that done at the ps3 level? | 00:09 |
| midas_ | thats why im replacing it :P | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | midas_: and what can we learn? | 00:09 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, depends... maybe... :p | 00:09 |
| lpotter | midas_: when did you not get support? | 00:09 |
| lcuk | i would like to know when he contacted nokia and about what, and how they let him down | 00:09 |
| kirma | how do the other phone manufacturers "support" their end customers? yet to see that happening | 00:10 |
| lpotter | ditto | 00:10 |
| npt | KaKaRoTo, may I ask on what? | 00:10 |
| kirma | apart from basic warranty | 00:10 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, latest code (I think I pushed it) allows you to push the payload and shellcode you want by putting them in /lib/firmware/psfreedom_payload.bin and /lib/firmware/psfreedom_shellcode.bin | 00:10 |
| midas_ | lpotter: support as in dropping maemo 5 | 00:10 |
| KaKaRoTo | I'll be providing both BD-emu enabled and BD-emu disabled payloads | 00:10 |
| midas_ | it's all community powered now | 00:10 |
| npt | ahh cool | 00:10 |
| npt | so xxxx and bdvd | 00:10 |
| npt | : ) | 00:10 |
| KaKaRoTo | by default (no firmware file found), it uses the bd-emu disabled payload | 00:10 |
| KaKaRoTo | yeah | 00:11 |
| npt | 0x78 lol | 00:11 |
| timeless_mbp | Lynoure: for reference, i'm taking my month long summer vacation now. so forget about asking me :) | 00:11 |
| npt | just curious, how do you use the other? | 00:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: tell me that one was not a typo | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: ?? | 00:11 |
| Lynoure | timeless_mbp: what?? | 00:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: "ass rage" | 00:11 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, what other ? | 00:12 |
| Lynoure | timeless_mbp: AFAIK, did not ask you anything... | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's (C) SpeedEvil | 00:12 |
| npt | and does this mean that I need a different payload file from you | 00:12 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, dates for leeds - you didnt get back about film and tv afternoon | 00:12 |
| kerio | heh, yeah, i remember | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's so good I adopted it | 00:12 |
| npt | KaKaRoTo, I mean, will I be able to backup my God of war 3 disc with this? | 00:12 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, in theory yes | 00:12 |
| lpotter | midas_: did Nokia ever say they were not ever going to drop maemo 5? | 00:12 |
| npt | what do I do to change the payload | 00:12 |
| npt | ? | 00:12 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: i'm heading to England sometime today (sunday) or monday | 00:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i should be in leeds by wednesday through saturday evening | 00:13 |
| kirma | nokia is actively developing something that'd appear to be PR1.3 containing Qt 4.7 for N900. anyway, their primary goal is to make Qt the standard nokia smartphone platform, and turning Maemo/MeeGo/Symbian largely irrelevant for those that develop software for the devices | 00:13 |
| lcuk | indeed | 00:13 |
| * KaKaRoTo just realized he did all this and never actually installed a .pkg or tried to backup anything... | 00:13 | |
| * timeless_mbp needs to get tickets | 00:13 | |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, to change the payload you do 'cp payload_bd.bin /lib/firmware/psfreedom_payload.bin' | 00:13 |
| KaKaRoTo | I'll be providing those .bin files | 00:13 |
| npt | ahh | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo timeless_mbp | 00:13 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, well, not with the file I sent you.. but with the latest git (locally) yes | 00:13 |
| timeless_mbp | hi | 00:13 |
| npt | ahh | 00:14 |
| npt | when will you push out of curiousity? | 00:14 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, if you want, you can just fire up 'vi psfreedom.ko' and replace the 'xxxx' | 00:14 |
| midas_ | lpotter: they did it in a short time dont you agree? | 00:14 |
| KaKaRoTo | as most people did when I had just released the binary... | 00:14 |
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| npt | ahh | 00:14 |
| npt | well, it's nice to know I can do that | 00:14 |
| npt | but | 00:14 |
| npt | still | 00:14 |
| npt | I would like to know how to do it the way you are doing it | 00:15 |
| npt | ie correctly (more correct to how you are doing things) | 00:15 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, that would require me to compile a new module for you | 00:15 |
| * KaKaRoTo yawns | 00:15 | |
| npt | I'm sorry | 00:15 |
| npt | I didn't mean to put you out | 00:15 |
| npt | it's ok | 00:15 |
| npt | I assume you mean | 00:15 |
| npt | hex edit the .ko? | 00:16 |
| GAN900 | lpotter, given the competition's behavior. At least 2 years is a reasonable expectation in this market segment. | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | lpotter: short Q - what's Qt mobile (or what it's called) policy regarding kbd hotkeys? | 00:16 |
| GAN900 | lpotter, 10 months or so is not that. | 00:16 |
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| lpotter | GAN900: and where is the official word that Nokia has actually dropped 'support' or is not developing maemo5 anymore? | 00:17 |
| lpotter | DocScrutinizer: you mean Qt Mobility? | 00:17 |
| npt | so KaKaRoTo does your implementation use the same backup manager on the ps3? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 00:17 |
| GAN900 | lpotter, where is the official word that support has been dropped for 770? N800? N810? | 00:18 |
| lpotter | DocScrutinizer: has nothing really to do with higher level gui | 00:18 |
| lcuk | GAN900, ffs | 00:18 |
| lcuk | theres development been done in many areas post pr1.2 | 00:18 |
| GAN900 | lpotter, the rhetoric is not productive. | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really, esp since I gather it's supported anyway | 00:18 |
| lcuk | and you yourself are going to be involved in some further maemo stuff are you not | 00:19 |
| lpotter | GAN900: well, seeings you cannot buy those from Nokia anymore | 00:19 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, my implementation just allows you to 'install package files' | 00:19 |
| KaKaRoTo | (psgroove and original psjailbreak too) | 00:19 |
| lpotter | GAN900: fairly certain that means no support | 00:19 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, once that's done, you unplug the n810, plug in a usb flash key with the manager.pkg in it ,and install that | 00:19 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, so when the N9's out, then we can expect the support to end? | 00:19 |
| kirma | "2 years" is not an expectation that anyone could predict on any other device either, beforehand... except maybe iphones, which are absolutely planned to turn crap after the two year contracts are to be renewed -> new one is sold | 00:19 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, and yes, hexedit the .ko | 00:19 |
| GAN900 | kirma, I think it's reasonable to expect that of manufacturers these days | 00:20 |
| npt | KaKaRoTo, I want to say, thanks for making it | 00:20 |
| npt | and | 00:20 |
| npt | You are a really nice guy. | 00:20 |
| npt | It is an honor to meet you. | 00:20 |
| npt | may I pm for one question? | 00:20 |
| GAN900 | and Nokia certainly knows the people who buy Maemo devices expect it, given the uproar each time they end support early. | 00:20 |
| kirma | there are very little reliable guarantees that *any* smartphone gets major manufacturer-approved OS upgrades, even if they give the feeling in the start | 00:21 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, thx, and ask your question, no need for boot-licking... ;p | 00:21 |
| GAN900 | But, despite Peter's protestations to the contrary, they don't listen, so management cripples us again. | 00:21 |
| npt | I meant it | 00:21 |
| npt | it wasn't ass kissing | 00:21 |
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| * lcuk bangs head on brick wall | 00:21 | |
| npt | ;) | 00:21 |
| npt | anyway, I was going to ask a question about an email address hehe | 00:22 |
| npt | : ) | 00:22 |
| GAN900 | kirma, true enough, however I believe there's an expectation of it in this segment these days. | 00:22 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, now you know what it's been like for me for the past few years! :) | 00:22 |
| KaKaRoTo | npt, I don't like receiving emails | 00:22 |
| lcuk | GAN900, there are hundreds of thousands of N900s around. | 00:22 |
| npt | KaKaRoTo, ok | 00:22 |
| npt | np | 00:22 |
| npt | thanks for all the help | 00:23 |
| npt | it's much appreciated | 00:23 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, and Nokia isn't providing a migration path for the vast majority of them to their Next Big Thing. | 00:23 |
| kirma | in my opinion, it's unrealistic to expect true OS updates after one year of device on the market - at least from companies that have more than two phone models in their active catalog | 00:23 |
| KaKaRoTo | you're welcome | 00:24 |
| crashanddie | "Network administrator Oliver Beel lost his job after charging his Segway, a two-wheeled electric vehicle, at work in May 2009. After he connected the vehicle to the firm's power source for 1-1/2 hours, his boss asked him to remove it. Twelve days later Beel found himself without a job." | 00:24 |
| lcuk | GAN900, dont you think people are trying | 00:24 |
| GAN900 | kirma, I say many of Nokia's competitors are doing just that, so I'll take my time and money elsewhere. | 00:24 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: wtf? | 00:24 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, I think a lot of good people are working for a rotten company in need of new management. | 00:25 |
| kirma | I doubt if samsung has committed themselves to providing major firmware upgrades to specific handset models two years after their entry to market | 00:25 |
| lcuk | GAN900, maemo itself is a pretty rock solid stable os | 00:25 |
| kirma | for instance | 00:25 |
| lcuk | with lots and lots of apps and support and stuff | 00:26 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: yeah... pretty insane eh? | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: fair enough, given it can take up to 50ct per hour to charge such vehicles | 00:26 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: actually, it was more like 0.018 euros | 00:26 |
| crashanddie | http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68232X20100903 | 00:26 |
| kirma | for instance, android upgrade paths seem very spotty | 00:26 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, or not. | 00:27 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: and he had been employed for 19 years, and other employees are allowed to charge their phones, and use digital photo frames without any trouble | 00:27 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, considering I have to reboot every two days to free RAM. | 00:27 |
| crashanddie | erhm... "lots and lots of apps" | 00:27 |
| lcuk | which bug is this? | 00:27 |
| GAN900 | I'm thinking something's missing from the story. | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: that's magnitudes different story, and I really doubt a segway charger is like err 10W | 00:28 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, 6xxx something | 00:28 |
| GAN900 | RST38h filed it. | 00:28 |
| lcuk | the one that RST38h abandoned after we asked for more info? | 00:28 |
| lcuk | GAN900, if you have info | 00:28 |
| lcuk | then please get it onto the bug report and show it me | 00:28 |
| lcuk | and i will take it on monday morning | 00:28 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, we can fix it in the next release after PR1.3 that isn't coming? :) | 00:28 |
| lcuk | ffs | 00:28 |
| lcuk | open your eyes GAN900, stuff has been done post pr1.2, stuff continues to be done | 00:29 |
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| lcuk | it wouldnt be done for no reason | 00:29 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, yes, and you can add to that by releasing yours :P | 00:29 |
| lcuk | llibliqbase changelog from last night :P | 00:30 |
| lcuk | libliqbase (0.3.61) unstable; urgency=low | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * lots of fixes, especially | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * green flash removal | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * rotation patch | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * x86 support | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * optification done at library level effecting all apps | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * multitouch availability improvements | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * added dialogs for color and image | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * added facecamera support and invar | 00:30 |
| lcuk | * added rotation support for sketches | 00:30 |
| lcuk | -- Gary Birkett <liquid@gmail.com> 4 September 2010 00:41:03 +0200 | 00:30 |
| lcuk | new release coming soon | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | ~ping | 00:30 |
| infobot | ~pong | 00:30 |
| lcuk | soryr :$ | 00:30 |
| nokiae50 | KaKaRoTo: hi, great work on PSFreedom | 00:30 |
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| kerio | KaKaRoTo: so does it work? | 00:31 |
| kerio | did you try it? | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | kerio: well, it's been confirmed multiple times | 00:31 |
| kerio | awesome | 00:31 |
| satmd | mhm | 00:31 |
| kerio | will you get banned from the psn? | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | probably | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | in the near future | 00:31 |
| kerio | and you also have to buy a blu-ray burner | 00:31 |
| kerio | hahaha | 00:31 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, add your app to the list and make it 59~~ + 1 | 00:31 |
| satmd | liq* ... what's that stuff about? I never gave it a try | 00:31 |
| nokiae50 | I wanted some help porting it on Archos 5 IMT, it supports musb | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, err no | 00:32 |
| lcuk | satmd, its nothing just yet :P | 00:32 |
| MohammadAG | BD checks are done 2-3 times afaik | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: the problem is that there might be a bunch of apps, but the development process is wrong | 00:32 |
| MohammadAG | only way to pirate games is on a stick | 00:32 |
| lcuk | it was more directed at crashanddie who is sitting on a great idea for an app | 00:32 |
| lcuk | yes crashanddie and you have 1 app | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: people in maemo don't develop to have a popular app | 00:32 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: ooh | 00:32 |
| kerio | cool | 00:32 |
| satmd | :) | 00:32 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: phone is nothing compared to amount of electricity segway can suck | 00:32 |
| kerio | (and by stick you mean bigass hd, right?) | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: he charged it once | 00:32 |
| MohammadAG | well, only fat32 is supported, go figure | 00:33 |
| kerio | wait, what :| | 00:33 |
| zr0 | ok, this probably gets asked a lot, but is there a maemo mutt client? | 00:33 |
| kerio | yay for games in 20 parts | 00:33 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: I highly doubt a segway uses more in 1 1/2 hours than all the phones that have the charger plugged in all year | 00:33 |
| nokiae50 | and the internal HDD also supported | 00:33 |
| *** hd is now known as jd | 00:33 | |
| MohammadAG | kerio, you can't split games | 00:33 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: yeah, i think it's little bit drastic, but i think it's because they were trying to find a reason to get rid of him or article skips some important parts | 00:33 |
| nokiae50 | the internal HDD is not FAT | 00:33 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: people develop because they have an itch, they can't be arsed to finish the apps properly, and basically, you end up with a bunch of half-assed shit apps | 00:33 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: sure, the count is enormous (well, supposedly), but half the crap is either redundant, or just that, "crap" | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | nokiae50, indeed, neither is it an FS we know | 00:34 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: at least "crap" on iOS/Android looks good. | 00:34 |
| nokiae50 | FS? | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | filesystem | 00:34 |
| npt | can someone help me with my dang bluetooth keyboard on my n800? | 00:34 |
| nokiae50 | :) | 00:34 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, then put the effort in with yours. show us how global search works | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, crap on maemo is good | 00:35 |
| npt | I've forgotten how to enable it... | 00:35 |
| crashanddie | I mean, ffs, we still have a phone that doesn't look much better than the n800. That's what, nearly 4 years ago now. | 00:35 |
| npt | as I hadn't used my n800 in a bit | 00:35 |
| GAN900 | Apple knows how to make their app devs make things look decent. | 00:35 |
| crashanddie | how come that we still have crappy scrolling, how come that we still don't have a properly defined development environment? | 00:35 |
| kerio | because nobody is a control freak | 00:36 |
| crashanddie | bollocks | 00:36 |
| crashanddie | openness != performance | 00:36 |
| crashanddie | and the parts that should control the performance AREN'T FUCKING OPEN | 00:36 |
| jacekowski | kernel and OC is open | 00:36 |
| lcuk | open or closed wouldnt matter | 00:36 |
| lcuk | its the pipeline length that would effect performance | 00:37 |
| crashanddie | Android isn't closed, hell, their UI blows Maemo out of the water | 00:37 |
| kerio | jacekowski: oh shush | 00:37 |
| kerio | :P | 00:37 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, you know performance can exist, but with x11 and however many layers inside both gtk and qt its hard | 00:37 |
| jacekowski | we should have VS plugin for maemo development | 00:37 |
| lcuk | remove the layers | 00:37 |
| lcuk | and improve perf | 00:37 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: I know that | 00:37 |
| lcuk | android and iphone both sidestep x11ness | 00:38 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: liqbase and quickflickr demonstrate that nicely | 00:38 |
| lcuk | liqbase does also | 00:38 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:38 |
| lcuk | but all 3 lose one thing | 00:38 |
| crashanddie | but it shouldn't have to | 00:38 |
| lcuk | backwards compatability | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | not fully | 00:38 |
| crashanddie | then sod it | 00:38 |
| lcuk | yes, fully jacekowski | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | you can replace xproto libs backend | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | sort of wineish like way | 00:39 |
| lcuk | do it then | 00:39 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: oh yeah, I can smell performance right there :P | 00:39 |
| lcuk | and lets have gtk compatabile inside android | 00:39 |
| lcuk | or qt | 00:39 |
| Corsac | and switch from ipk to deb | 00:39 |
| jacekowski | well, sort of like qt | 00:39 |
| jacekowski | same api for app but different drawing backends | 00:40 |
| jacekowski | cocoa,win32,x11 | 00:40 |
| lcuk | this backwards compatability thing is something i have looked at extensively this year | 00:40 |
| jacekowski | just replacing library itself could do the job | 00:40 |
| jacekowski | but somebody would have to make qt draw stuff without x11 on linux | 00:41 |
| MNZ | don't go blaming x11 now | 00:41 |
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| jacekowski | x11 is slowish by design | 00:41 |
| jacekowski | look how 3d is done | 00:41 |
| lcuk | MNZ, i am not! | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | tbh | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | documentation on maemo sucks | 00:41 |
| jacekowski | 3d in fact doesn't go trough x server | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/hildon/hildon-Additions-to-GTK+.html#hildon-gtk-window-take-screenshot <-- doesn't work on qt | 00:41 |
| MNZ | x11 is for the most part rock solid, time-tested technology | 00:41 |
| lcuk | x11 isnt the problem i dont think | 00:41 |
| jacekowski | 3d is passed via DRM straight to hardware | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | what makes you believe implementing all the x11 functions in e.g. Qt would result in a solution performing any better than the original? | 00:42 |
| crashanddie | DRM? | 00:42 |
| crashanddie | DMA? | 00:42 |
| MNZ | and I was just going to say that jacekowski | 00:42 |
| lcuk | MNZ, same as gtk isnt the problem | 00:42 |
| jacekowski | no | 00:42 |
| lcuk | and same as powervr/compositing isnt the problem | 00:42 |
| jacekowski | DRM | 00:42 |
| lcuk | its all 3 combined | 00:42 |
| jacekowski | Direct Rendering Manager | 00:42 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: ah, ok | 00:42 |
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| jacekowski | you have to love english acronyms | 00:42 |
| MNZ | personally I don't trust the stuff above X11 on the stack | 00:42 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, nobody said that | 00:42 |
| MNZ | but X11 and mesa (GL for the desktop) are rock solid | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: jacekowski implied it | 00:43 |
| lcuk | MNZ, they are also bloated | 00:43 |
| jacekowski | it won't be drasticaly faster | 00:43 |
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| MNZ | lcuk, X11 has had a MAJOR rework recently (few years) and it has become very modular. I really don't think it's the problem | 00:44 |
| MNZ | very modular and a lot of old cruft was removed | 00:44 |
| crashanddie | very modular == very abstract | 00:44 |
| kirma | X11, Xlib or any of that is unlikely to be the problem regarding unresponsiveness in the sense of CPU load, although they may be tad inefficient regarding use of memory, if they're not used in a wise way | 00:44 |
| crashanddie | very abstract == overhead | 00:44 |
| lcuk | mnz, there is a huge asskicking for x11 being discussed | 00:45 |
| Corsac | xcb is supposed to address latency issues, isn't it? | 00:45 |
| lcuk | and i cant remember its codename | 00:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | we had that X11 performance vs fb plus new implementation of some window manager in a generic way, we had that several times on OM. It's always the same, either you use fb, or you use x11, but there's no way to have the speed of fb with the versatility of x11 | 00:45 |
| lcuk | but a supreme light variation with most of the cruft removed | 00:45 |
| Corsac | lcuk: plymouth? | 00:46 |
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| lcuk | doesnt sound right | 00:46 |
| kirma | with modern OpenGL, one can basically bypass most of the eighties-style functionality on it and go almost straight to the hardware acceleration | 00:46 |
| * lcuk will know it when i see it | 00:46 | |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG, most things on Maemo are half-assed. | 00:46 |
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| GAN900 | Attributable to both Nokia's culture and lack of dedication from the company. | 00:46 |
| MNZ | lcuk, you are probably talking about that new server... something that starts with W.... | 00:47 |
| MNZ | it's not actually an X11 rework | 00:47 |
| lcuk | weldon ot something | 00:47 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:47 |
| lcuk | tho | 00:47 |
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| kirma | with Qt, Nokia *could* choose to skip Xlib/X server altogether, but only when everything is actually running on top of the Qt components | 00:48 |
| lcuk | wayland! | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: I'd not buy that | 00:49 |
| jacekowski | i do | 00:49 |
| MNZ | lcuk, yes that's the one | 00:49 |
| Corsac | lcuk: wayland | 00:49 |
| Corsac | damn | 00:49 |
| * Corsac hides | 00:49 | |
| lcuk | lol :D | 00:49 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you would remove bloat and 30 years old design of Xserver | 00:49 |
| jacekowski | not to mention that xserver is a security risk | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfft | 00:51 |
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| kirma | I still think Xorg server and Xlib, especially with DRM extensions and such, is particularly small portion of the complexity, or overhead, of a typical system. qt, gtk and whatever have considerable amount of untrivial complexity inside them, and not really tuned as long as the X server | 00:51 |
| MNZ | I agree with kirma | 00:52 |
| jacekowski | thing is that you have to remove as much overhead as you can from everything | 00:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer too | 00:52 | |
| MNZ | the 30 year old design is 30 year olds for a reason really :/ it's been improved a lot since then of course as well, besides the X server manages a whole lot more than just display | 00:52 |
| Corsac | except that the part talking to hardware is X | 00:52 |
| jacekowski | MNZ: think symbian | 00:53 |
| kirma | one has also to remember that original X servers ran on hardware that had small fraction of CPU power in comparison to any phone these days | 00:53 |
| Corsac | not the toolkits | 00:53 |
| MNZ | and once you actually get a surface/rendering context, X gets out of the way mostly | 00:53 |
| jacekowski | MNZ: that's 30 years old design as well | 00:53 |
| lcuk | kirma, it does get a kick in the teeth based on the c/s principles and mechanisms for copying | 00:53 |
| * kirma recalls his SGI system that had 25 MHz R3000 as CPU, and big graphics subsystem bolted on the side | 00:53 | |
| lcuk | which on a handheld system like maemo, the remoting capabilities being rarely touched but having to be used with every operation | 00:54 |
| lcuk | adds to the heavy overhead gtk and qt abuse it for | 00:54 |
| jacekowski | X on n900 uses 20-30% of cpu sometimes | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: so why not discard unix concept all together? it's even older than X | 00:54 |
| jacekowski | when i looked in htop | 00:54 |
| lcuk | like i said, individually they are not a problem, but combined they add up to slug | 00:54 |
| lcuk | but I know good people have worked damned hard this year to minimise as much of that as possible | 00:55 |
| ml-mobile | we should go to a modern architecture, like WinNT ;) | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: kinda no alternatives | 00:55 |
| lcuk | with extreme optimisations and profiling and looking at just how we can improve things | 00:55 |
| kerio | the remoting is not used because it doesn't easily work :( | 00:55 |
| kirma | most of the heavy graphics stuff has gone through SHM (at worst!) on all meaningful apps for decades | 00:55 |
| kerio | ssh -X doesn't work :( | 00:55 |
| lcuk | its not required here | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | winnt is old as well | 00:55 |
| crashanddie | < lcuk> like i said, individually they are not a problem, but combined they add up to slug <-- sounds like you were talking with GAN900 and myself about marines in starcraft 2 | 00:55 |
| kirma | on local applications | 00:55 |
| MNZ | jacekowski, I have been told and read in several places that the X cpu usage is not actually entirely X's cpu usage. Other programs contribute to it | 00:55 |
| jacekowski | MNZ: X cpu usage is X cpu usage | 00:56 |
| lcuk | MNZ, X is idle unless something is talking to it :P | 00:56 |
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| lcuk | so yes you are right | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | MNZ: even if caused by other program requesting something from X | 00:56 |
| kerio | what are those programs asking? | 00:56 |
| jacekowski | to display shit for them | 00:56 |
| lcuk | rendering ops most likely | 00:56 |
| lcuk | no display shit has to go back through | 00:56 |
| lcuk | be made into a texture | 00:56 |
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| lcuk | sent onto the powervr | 00:56 |
| lcuk | pure 2d direct to lcd x11 rendering is fast | 00:57 |
| kerio | i want to know why ssh -X doesn't work | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | no tcp | 00:57 |
| lcuk | thats why as much as possible the compositor is turned off | 00:57 |
| kerio | jacekowski: how do i enable it? | 00:57 |
| kerio | i tried xauth | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: how is that part of displaying working | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | kerio: it's not compiled in | 00:57 |
| lcuk | which | 00:57 |
| kerio | :( | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: 2d | 00:57 |
| kerio | then why do we have networking | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: hardware side of it | 00:58 |
| kirma | X CPU usage is X CPU usage, which might though consist of waiting for the graphics hardware to accomplish something... X memory usage can be result of stupid X client applications, though | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: it still has to go to powervr? | 00:58 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, the omapfb graphic surface doesnt care how it gets filled | 00:58 |
| lcuk | so fill it with pretty graphics | 00:58 |
| lcuk | whether they be direct from x11 cpu operaitons | 00:58 |
| lcuk | or from the powervr output | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | hmm, that way | 00:58 |
| lcuk | hell, you could write a blitter using the dsp | 00:59 |
| MNZ | Wayland would be quite perfect for a mobile device | 00:59 |
| MNZ | "Wayland is a nano display server, relying on drm modesetting, gem batchbuffer submission and hw initialization generally in the kernel. Wayland puts the compositing manager and display server in the same process. Window management is largely pushed to the clients, they draw their own decorations and move and resize themselves, typically implemented in a toolkit library." | 00:59 |
| lcuk | MNZ, i believe its discussions like this that evolved into wayland | 00:59 |
| jacekowski | MNZ: it will probably require kernel mode switching | 00:59 |
| kirma | sane X11 programs use SHM or similar to share pixmaps with the server, and communicate over domain sockets in bunches of X11 commands that are sent in bundles only when results are needed to be displayed | 00:59 |
| MNZ | jacekowski, most probably | 01:00 |
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| lcuk | kirma, thats harder to setup generically than you think | 01:00 |
| kirma | overhead shouldn't be worse than any other method that applies something that separates different clients from access to the actual hardware/framebuffer | 01:00 |
| kerio | lcuk: so write a toolkit :D | 01:01 |
| lcuk | as soon as you want to talk with the server for complex stuff that overwhelmes it the benfit is lost | 01:01 |
| MNZ | lcuk, actually, back when I used to idle on #radeon/#drm/#dri-devel I have seen wayland take a bunch of bashing | 01:01 |
| lcuk | it will do :P | 01:01 |
| lcuk | kerio, i did | 01:01 |
| lcuk | and it performs like an iphone | 01:01 |
| jacekowski | slow? | 01:02 |
| lcuk | i would love to actually do comparisons on direct hardware to hardware tbh | 01:02 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, piss off | 01:02 |
| jacekowski | but hmm, thinking about it now | 01:02 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, for reference of what I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeVPddxHW84 | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | games and stuff on iphone | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | are barely working on 128M of ram | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | and n-gage had 1/4th of that | 01:03 |
| kirma | responsiveness of applications certainly depends on other things than "X server overhead" alone | 01:03 |
| jacekowski | and i could run 2-3 games at the same time | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | kerio: and app and ui design | 01:04 |
| kirma | having a platform without mentionable multitasking helps keeping interactive response jitter down | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | if you split ui and processing into separate thread | 01:04 |
| jacekowski | with non blocking communication between them | 01:04 |
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| jacekowski | you can have responsible ui | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | + better sheduler that prioritises interactive threads/applications | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | something like RSDL | 01:05 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns | 01:05 | |
| jacekowski | where you can have loadavg around 100 and apps will still be responsive | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | kirma, do you generally find maemo apps unresponsive? | 01:08 |
| * lcuk certainly doesnt | 01:08 | |
| jacekowski | because you are only using liqbase | 01:08 |
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| * lcuk has conversations and xchat and browser and vnc open atm on n900 | 01:09 | |
| lcuk | no jacekowski | 01:09 |
| lcuk | i have and use many native apps | 01:10 |
| kirma | my suspicions of choppy UI experience on small devices usually point towards scheduling, paging and specific hard-to-recognize inefficiencies in specific code paths crossing several abstraction layers | 01:10 |
| lcuk | and i enjoy when an mms comes in etc | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's *definitely* other problems when it comes to sluggishness on N900, than exactly x11 | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: nokia maps? | 01:10 |
| MNZ | Just look at GTK :/ | 01:11 |
| kirma | lcuk: the magic "turns sluggish after couple days" issue certainly annoys me | 01:11 |
| kirma | but not really otherwise | 01:11 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, now that I mostly use a liq* app for but its not the same sort of app | 01:11 |
| GAN900 | I love that apt-get update has scheduled itself to run during my lunch every day. | 01:11 |
| lcuk | i simply rely on taking photos of local maps | 01:11 |
| lcuk | or screenshots of websites | 01:11 |
| lcuk | kirma, i havent got it personally | 01:11 |
| lcuk | uptime 4 days, 12:48 | 01:12 |
| lcuk | and if you CAN reproduce it | 01:12 |
| lcuk | help in the bug with good info | 01:12 |
| kirma | I'm not certain if the call recorder has something to do with it in my case specifically | 01:12 |
| kirma | or some other of those installed 150+ applications... | 01:12 |
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| lcuk | yeah :) | 01:13 |
| lcuk | its not like it happens to everyone | 01:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-02-8:~# uptime | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | 00:14:14 up 12 days, 6:29, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | no sluggishness | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | fake load | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | or OC | 01:14 |
| lcuk | load was at 8 last night DocScrutinizer | 01:14 |
| lcuk | you said so | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's been another device | 01:15 |
| kirma | it feels like either some stupid list in window manager/compositor is growing absurdly list and being traversed all the time (unlikely), some critical applications' memory has gotten badly fragmented and results virtual memory pressure showing up as increased paging, or even that something might be happening in the kernel memory management | 01:15 |
| lcuk | kirma, so follow your nose :) | 01:15 |
| lcuk | the bitch is that it takes 2 days to retry | 01:15 |
| MNZ | with all this negativity and complaints about sluggishness and bad apps and what not, I'd still take an N900 over an iPhone anyday. Is it only me? | 01:16 |
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| kirma | I don't really have so much free time to tinker, especially after debugging stuff at work 8+ hours a day ;) | 01:16 |
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| lcuk | MNZ, if it were only you then we wouldnt care enough to shout | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: there is that qemu image of meego that will probably do the same thing | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: nope, me too | 01:16 |
| kirma | I certainly like my N900, but there are some annoyances like this. | 01:16 |
| lcuk | MNZ, and everyone is trying | 01:16 |
| * lcuk adores his n900 | 01:16 | |
| kirma | which I can't call non-issues in every level | 01:16 |
| lcuk | kirma, try reflashing perhaps and rebuild the apps you use | 01:17 |
| lcuk | and leave the ones you dont | 01:17 |
| lcuk | i know in linux thats not the done thing | 01:17 |
| lcuk | but a great many computer problems magically vanish when you reformat :P | 01:17 |
| kirma | well, reboot is sufficiently good solution as it doesn't take more than a minute to get things back on sensible track after it | 01:18 |
| MNZ | actually, a useful way to debug this issue would be if someone is proficient with dumping and exploring RAM. Like in computer forensics | 01:18 |
| lcuk | MNZ, problem is: | 01:19 |
| kirma | unlike on desktop machines, where recovery may take literally an hour of work or more | 01:19 |
| lcuk | venn diargam: people experiencing problem, People able to do forensics | 01:19 |
| MNZ | hahaha I see where you are going | 01:19 |
| lcuk | diagram even :P | 01:19 |
| MNZ | but that's not what I meant. If there's a simple way to dump RAM and upload it so that those who can do the hackery can see it | 01:20 |
| MNZ | and this being linux..... | 01:20 |
| MNZ | wasn't there a mem device? | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: I thought there is | 01:20 |
| lcuk | sure, DocScrutinizer - can we just dump all ram, and would it be helpful do you think | 01:20 |
| lcuk | doh crashdumps do? | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | cat /proc/kmem? something along that line? | 01:21 |
| kirma | you would rather need a consistent dump of the memory (both userland and kernel) *and* all the files open by the processes, and the paging backing store | 01:21 |
| MNZ | kmem would be kernel mem I guess | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | i think i tried something like that | 01:21 |
| jacekowski | and it fails | 01:21 |
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| jacekowski | because of memory protection by trustzone | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | or simply suspend to disk, then safe away the swap ? | 01:21 |
| nox- | there also is /proc/<pid>/maps for the virtual addresses | 01:21 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, actually, that's a good idea! | 01:21 |
| nox- | (unless that doesnt exist on n900) | 01:21 |
| lcuk | right | 01:22 |
| lcuk | so what good would it do | 01:22 |
| lcuk | seriously | 01:22 |
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| lcuk | "ooho 1s and 0s | 01:22 |
| lcuk | is it actually worth the hassle | 01:22 |
| lcuk | when as kirma just said "meh i just reboot" | 01:22 |
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| lcuk | errr officially, he said: | 01:22 |
| lcuk | "<kirma> well, reboot is sufficiently good solution as it doesn't take more than a minute to get things back on sensible track after it" | 01:22 |
| MNZ | well, I'm not proficient with this kind of thing, but I was reading an article on computer forensics a while back and you can apparently do a whole load of stuff with a memory image | 01:23 |
| lcuk | gill grissom maybe | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | not easily | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on the actual amount of hassle it means to anybody capable to deal with such kind of mega-dump crawling | 01:23 |
| MNZ | like extract and examine process memory | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | you would have to get maps first | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | and memory is fragmented | 01:23 |
| lcuk | this discussion by the way | 01:23 |
| kirma | suspend-to-somewhere + open files would certainly give some sort of idea what's wrong, but suspend-to-swap and such tend to be surprisingly hard :I | 01:24 |
| lcuk | is the reason the bug is on NEED_INFO or something | 01:24 |
| lcuk | i am vanishing | 01:24 |
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| lcuk | i have stuff to do | 01:24 |
| lcuk | \o | 01:24 |
| kirma | I mean, such a dump would be useful to *someone* | 01:24 |
| MNZ | o/ | 01:24 |
| jacekowski | not really | 01:24 |
| jacekowski | dumps of individual processes would be better | 01:24 |
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| jacekowski | but still not very usefull | 01:25 |
| jacekowski | static analisys take lot of time | 01:25 |
| kirma | well, they're better if you actually know the individual processes are the problem | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, fun. N810 xchat frequently reregistering :-S | 01:25 |
| jacekowski | you would need kdbg attached | 01:25 |
| jacekowski | and just trace stuff | 01:25 |
| jacekowski | over serial console | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: Congrats! | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ kdbg nonexistent for arm | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | (usb-...) | 01:26 |
| jacekowski | well, there is serial trace interface | 01:26 |
| jacekowski | or whatever is it called | 01:26 |
| * ShadowJK 's n810's xchat survives change of public ip even | 01:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer | err is there? | 01:27 |
| lolloo | i have xchat on my nokia n900 | 01:27 |
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| nox- | DocScrutinizer, oh? maybe try using qemu's builtin gdbstub? | 01:28 |
| lolloo | now am chatting with it | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: don't you mean serial console? | 01:28 |
| * ShadowJK has xchat on n810, n900 and desktop :) | 01:28 | |
| jacekowski | i think it's called serial trace interface on arm | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 01:28 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, i think ive used that one on the zaurus emulation once... | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | that sounds like JTAG then | 01:29 |
| nox- | the gdbstub | 01:29 |
| nox- | what i mean is qemu-system-arm -M foo -s ... | 01:29 |
| nox- | then in gdb: target remote 127.1:1234 | 01:29 |
| kirma | as I said, enough to debug at work, not to really get too interested in debugging my *phone* | 01:29 |
| kirma | maybe other stuff at home, but not particularly interested in debugging the only phone I use :) | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd love to have a decent way to debug musb-core | 01:30 |
| nox- | no, i meant debug a qemu guest | 01:30 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, idunno if the n900 qemu emulates usb, but if it does... | 01:31 |
| jacekowski | but that depends on qemu emulation that's not perfect | 01:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I'm quite sure qemu won't help with that | 01:31 |
| lolloo | guys how do iget flash for firefox? | 01:31 |
| nox- | jacekowski, true | 01:31 |
| lolloo | in my maemo | 01:31 |
| merlin1991 | afaik impossible | 01:31 |
| nox- | oh | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: it had to emulate mentorgraphics musb-core hardware. I doubt anything does on this planet | 01:32 |
| nox- | ok :) | 01:32 |
| lolloo | how do i get flash for my friefox in my nokai N900? | 01:33 |
| lolloo | i want to play youtube content | 01:33 |
| lolloo | please | 01:33 |
| lcuk | then just go onto youtube? | 01:33 |
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| lcuk | which part of youtube *doesn't* work? | 01:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I would be surrprised if there wasn't a musb emulator at mentor graphics in vhdl forrm for testing. Maybe on a fpga | 01:35 |
| SpeedEvil | flash in firefox doesn't work | 01:35 |
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| merlin1991 | but it does in microb, just use that one | 01:35 |
| lcuk | ahh ofc, i missed that SpeedEvil | 01:35 |
| timeless_mbp | flash is disabled in firefox because the performance sucks | 01:37 |
| nox- | hah | 01:37 |
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| * timeless_mbp can't remember if it's possible to enable | 01:37 | |
| nox- | as if that was news with flash :) | 01:37 |
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| * ShadowJK vaguely remembers some discussion about the performance issues on meego-devel iirc | 01:38 | |
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| nox- | flash is just `optimized for windows' | 01:38 |
| ShadowJK | iirc it basically boiled down to architecture causing shitloads of extra memcpy() | 01:38 |
| ShadowJK | arch of fennec/blah/plugininterface/etc or something | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | timeless_mbp, it can be enabled | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | idk hwo | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | how* | 01:39 |
| nox- | about:config ? | 01:39 |
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| ShadowJK | flash is so handicapped already as-is, I'd imagine the performance would be unusable if it doesn't have a straight path to the screen :/ | 01:40 |
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| zchydem | hi any debian packaging gurus here? | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I sort-of-wonder if there is a way to do a flash app. | 01:46 |
| zchydem | I have a problem that I made a deb package of my app, but if is start app from the app launcher it fails to start. If I run it as a "root" from xterm it works so the problem is running it as a "user" | 01:46 |
| zchydem | so is this somekind of permission problem? | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - somerthing that basically runs flash in such a mode where it's fullscreen | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | and direct to the screen | 01:46 |
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| lcuk | zchydem, it might not be user/root issue | 01:47 |
| lcuk | its more likely potentially to be a problem in your .desktop | 01:47 |
| Jartza | or in control-file | 01:48 |
| zchydem | lcuk: ok. What should I look from there? | 01:48 |
| lcuk | zchydem, which package is it? and is it in -devel for us to install and look ourselves? (what is it by the way | 01:49 |
| zchydem | lcuk: it's not yet in devel.. It's QuickFlickr a QML/C++ based flickr client for n900 | 01:49 |
| zchydem | I'm working on packaging now, but I want to test it first on my own device | 01:49 |
| lcuk | pastebin your .desktop file | 01:50 |
| lcuk | sure | 01:50 |
| zchydem | sec | 01:50 |
| lcuk | and it looks supertight by the way | 01:50 |
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| lcuk | much kudos from many folks to you for just the hint of this | 01:50 |
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| lcuk | http://zchydem.enume.net/2010/08/15/quickflickr-on-n900/ | 01:51 |
| lcuk | for those that havent seen the video | 01:51 |
| zchydem | lcuk: thanks for promoting:) | 01:51 |
| zchydem | lcuk: http://pastebin.ca/1933061 | 01:51 |
| zchydem | a newer video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMI0b9-ChTs with more features | 01:53 |
| lcuk | btw, "su user" changes you to user | 01:53 |
| Jartza | zchydem: check also control -file, maybe wrong architecture (armel), wrong section (must be user/<something>) ? | 01:53 |
| lcuk | for you to test also | 01:53 |
| zchydem | lcuk: I tested to run it as user already and it works then.. | 01:53 |
| zchydem | Jartza: I'll check that too.. | 01:54 |
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| * zchydem sucks when it comes to debian packaging... | 01:54 | |
| zchydem | Jartza: section is user/other and the Architecture is "any" | 01:55 |
| lcuk | ok zchydem | 01:55 |
| zchydem | I guess the any could be armel | 01:55 |
| lcuk | do you have to start in a specific folder? | 01:55 |
| lcuk | or doesnt your app care | 01:55 |
| lcuk | ie is it opening in the wrong folder, finding nothing and bailing | 01:56 |
| lcuk | and is there a chance you can write to a log file on startup to confirm whether or not its being run | 01:56 |
| Jartza | zchydem: change architecture to armel | 01:56 |
| zchydem | Jartza: just did. Building a new package atm... | 01:56 |
| lcuk | if the files are getting to the right location | 01:57 |
| lcuk | its not those things (tho fixing them is the right thing to do) | 01:57 |
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| lcuk | by saying that an icon exists to be clicked on | 01:57 |
| lcuk | i would assume that to be the case | 01:57 |
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| Jartza | oh yeah, and "of course" in maemo you have to install the desktop-file to non-debian-folder, /usr/share/applications/hildon/ | 01:59 |
| Jartza | :) | 01:59 |
| lcuk | yeah | 02:00 |
| lcuk | leads to duplications if you want a cross platform app | 02:00 |
| lcuk | but thats not too much of an issue | 02:00 |
| zchydem | hmm thanks guys all the help.. I'm gonna test if this next package works and if not, I'll cont. tomorrow | 02:01 |
| lcuk | zchydem, does your application register with osso and have a service file? i notice its missing from the startup | 02:01 |
| lcuk | ok | 02:01 |
| lcuk | http://github.com/lcuk/liqcalc/blob/master/base_fs/usr/share/applications/hildon/liqcalc.desktop | 02:01 |
| lcuk | is the .desktops i use by the way | 02:01 |
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| lcuk | you could try similar and put some echos into a script | 02:02 |
| zchydem | ok thanks. I'll check it out | 02:02 |
| lcuk | to confirm things are being run, then call your main app | 02:02 |
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| Jartza | zchydem: oh... user/other is not in the list of allowed ones... | 02:04 |
| Jartza | zchydem: check http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Sections | 02:05 |
| Jartza | oh sorry | 02:06 |
| zchydem | ok | 02:06 |
| Jartza | looks like "other" is the default, if it begins with user/... so should work | 02:06 |
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| Jartza | If the package's section starts "user/", but is not any of the above, the Application Manager forces them into an "Other" section. | 02:07 |
| Jartza | didn't remember that :) | 02:07 |
| lcuk | Jartza, what does it say about apps in the "waesome/" category? | 02:07 |
| lcuk | awesome even | 02:07 |
| lcuk | ffs | 02:07 |
| Jartza | nothing :) | 02:08 |
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| GAN900 | Gotta love gangsters who think they're some city until some 70-year-old woman runs after them with a cellphone. | 02:09 |
| lcuk | heh GAN900 yeah "dont take my photo" | 02:10 |
| lcuk | or were you meaning as a weapon ;) | 02:10 |
| zr0 | isn't installing rootsh a huge security hole or am i missing something? | 02:11 |
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| zr0 | is there a way to install a deb package without having to install rootsh? | 02:18 |
| ml-mobile | no | 02:18 |
| lcuk | yes | 02:18 |
| lcuk | use HAM | 02:18 |
| lcuk | after publishing the deb to maemo.org :) | 02:18 |
| ml-mobile | ha | 02:18 |
| lcuk | so everyone can benefit | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | unless it's in a non user/ section, then you need to install rootsh | 02:20 |
| Jartza | umm? | 02:20 |
| lcuk | if its non user app why is it needed by regular user :P | 02:20 |
| Jartza | just copy the .deb to your phone and start install from file manager | 02:20 |
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| zr0 | Jartza: thank you ! | 02:28 |
| Jartza | np | 02:28 |
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| zr0 | bummer, it looks like the app manager can't install offlineimap :/ | 02:41 |
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| MohammadAG | KaKaRoTo, how many buttons should the app have? | 02:50 |
| MohammadAG | one for enable, one for disable, were you adding two more things? | 02:50 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, for now just hack with 2, you can add more after easily | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, not if you're using a custom design | 02:51 |
| lcuk | wow has it got so complex that you cannot just add/remove buttons from a layout with ease? | 02:52 |
| lcuk | the app functionality is important, just do it with 2 without worrying about design? | 02:53 |
| lcuk | then stick a coat of paint on it | 02:53 |
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| zr0 | when i try to install offlineimap locally i get "unable to install, incompatible application package" from the app manager | 02:59 |
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| MohammadAG | use dpkg | 03:05 |
| zr0 | i'm trying to install without using rootsh | 03:05 |
| zr0 | same error when trying to install mutt package too | 03:06 |
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| MNZ | Anyone know where I can get more information about rapuyama? | 03:06 |
| ShadowJK | What repo is "offlineimap" from? | 03:06 |
| zr0 | devel | 03:07 |
| MNZ | SpeedEvil1, ping ^^ since you seem to know about these hardware things | 03:07 |
| zr0 | ShadowJK: same with mutt | 03:08 |
| zr0 | ShadowJK: i was able to install vim at least | 03:08 |
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| ShadowJK | MNZ, afaik the cellular side (which includes rapuyama) is essentially "secret" | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | It's actually literally "side" too, the main board has the modem and stuff on one side and the CPU, RAM and linuxy stuff on the other side | 03:11 |
| MNZ | ShadowJK, hmm that would explain all the shit that comes up when I google it | 03:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MNZ: there's not much moe than a block diagram of BB5 rapuyama | 03:13 |
| MNZ | ok, so the verdict is we can't tap that | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | plus of course the info related to flashing etc of phones based on BB5 only | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | It's a pretty sophisticated thing though | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | It could run an entire low-end phone on its own, screen keyboard and all | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which it actually does | 03:15 |
| * ShadowJK bets it's also inside the modem-only Nokia CS-15 | 03:15 | |
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| KaKaRoTo | MohammadAG, don't know, depends on what the buttons are supposed to do ? | 03:26 |
| MohammadAG | on/off | 03:26 |
| KaKaRoTo | MohammadAG, well, I suppose that opening the application would 'enable it automatically | 03:26 |
| KaKaRoTo | closing the application would disable it automatically | 03:26 |
| MohammadAG | that's too basic | 03:26 |
| KaKaRoTo | if it gets disabled during runtime of the app, a "re-enable module" should appear/activate | 03:27 |
| KaKaRoTo | it should automatically disable once the exploit succeeds | 03:27 |
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| kerio | just a single button | 03:27 |
| kerio | "enable module" when it's unloaded | 03:28 |
| kerio | and "disable module" when it's loaded | 03:28 |
| kerio | nothing automatical | 03:28 |
| KaKaRoTo | kerio, you think ? | 03:28 |
| kerio | and a label that tracks the status of the module | 03:28 |
| * KaKaRoTo is really really bad at user-friendliness/design | 03:28 | |
| kerio | yeah, or you'll accidentally open the application while scrolling the menu and you'll fuck up your usb connections | 03:28 |
| KaKaRoTo | kerio, true | 03:28 |
| KaKaRoTo | MohammadAG, now (latest git, locally) I have a file in /proc/psfreedom/status | 03:29 |
| KaKaRoTo | which gives you the status of the state machine when read | 03:29 |
| KaKaRoTo | atm, it's the string "INIT/DEVICE1_WAIT_READY/etc.." no \n, no \0 at the end | 03:30 |
| KaKaRoTo | should I make it the binary value of the enum ? | 03:30 |
| KaKaRoTo | or keep it as a string ? | 03:30 |
| KaKaRoTo | and should I append \n to it ? | 03:30 |
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| KaKaRoTo | kerio, MohammadAG: also, now you can install firmwares for the module | 03:32 |
| MohammadAG | firmwares? | 03:32 |
| KaKaRoTo | /lib/firmware/psfreedom_payload.bin and /lib/firmware/psfreedom_shellcode.bin | 03:32 |
| * lcuk gets nervous around terms such at payload and shellcode | 03:32 | |
| KaKaRoTo | so the app should allow the user to set (browse) his own payload, + give him a combobox of available payloads (shipped with psfreedom) | 03:32 |
| KaKaRoTo | I currently have the BD-emu support, and without BD-emu support payloads | 03:33 |
| * KaKaRoTo might be aiming at more advanced users here... | 03:33 | |
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| SpeedEvil1 | MNZ: What ShadowJK said. | 03:41 |
| SpeedEvil1 | MNZ: You need ninjas, or really expensive prostitutes to find out. | 03:42 |
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| MNZ | hahaha | 03:42 |
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| pigeon | hmm, am i not supposed to include both GLES/gl.h and GLES2/gl2.h? | 04:04 |
| raster | no | 04:06 |
| raster | u are either gles2 or gles1 | 04:07 |
| RST38h | wooohooo, new laptop! | 04:07 |
| raster | gles2 is gl2.h | 04:07 |
| pigeon | ok | 04:07 |
| raster | gles2 is not a superset of gles1 | 04:07 |
| raster | disjoint sets | 04:07 |
| RST38h | yea, gles2 being WEIRD | 04:08 |
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| raster | well no more so than 1.1 | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | KaKaRoTo: kerio: no way never! elementary guidelines for GUI design, §1: never use toggle buttons, especialy not on touchscreens. §2: don't require user to read labels to distinguish what a button does. §3 make sure you always have either a double-action user interface ("are you sure") or alternatively a way to undo that doesn't cause any harm | 04:30 |
| MNZ | anyone just how far compatible are the omap3430 and omap35xx's ? | 04:31 |
| MNZ | s/anyone/anyone know/ | 04:31 |
| infobot | MNZ meant: anyone know just how far compatible are the omap3430 and omap35xx's ? | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's same chip, just different marketing aiui | 04:32 |
| MNZ | ok, second question. Is the video/audio hardware accel on these chips used? | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik yes | 04:33 |
| lcuk | MNZ, powervr, yes | 04:33 |
| lcuk | AVI potentailly no | 04:33 |
| lcuk | IVA | 04:33 |
| lcuk | the IVA contains certain accelerated hardware things | 04:34 |
| lcuk | i believe one of them is hardware jpeg decoding | 04:34 |
| lcuk | but i may be mistaken | 04:34 |
| lcuk | it might be video decoding perhaps | 04:34 |
| MNZ | yeah, jpeg enc/dec according to datasheet | 04:34 |
| MNZ | and there's a video decoder | 04:34 |
| lcuk | that has a higher chance of being used | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | H.264? | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | 263? | 04:35 |
| MNZ | yep doc | 04:35 |
| MNZ | yup | 04:35 |
| lcuk | mnz, all the image thumbnails on the system are jpeg | 04:36 |
| lcuk | and all your photos stored | 04:36 |
| lcuk | and lots of the web | 04:36 |
| MNZ | and we even have WMV and RealMedia 8 and 9 :D | 04:36 |
| lcuk | and if the silicon is idle .. | 04:36 |
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| lcuk | MNZ, does it also have optimized image scaling routines | 04:38 |
| lcuk | gnite | 04:39 |
| lcuk | \o | 04:39 |
| MNZ | night lcuk | 04:39 |
| MNZ | and no image scaling according to a quick grep of the datasheet | 04:39 |
| MNZ | it does yuv conversions though IIRC... | 04:40 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 04:40 |
| lcuk | vlad has done something also | 04:40 |
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| lcuk | somehow he got yuv overlay, underlaid behind the desktop | 04:40 |
| lcuk | for the livebg stuff | 04:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Other units do scaling | 04:40 |
| lcuk | i am just fiddling atm to see how well it works | 04:41 |
| * RST38h wonders who the hell came up with these hideous island-key keyboards | 04:41 | |
| RST38h | The guy probably never expected people actually type using these keyboards | 04:41 |
| lcuk | RST38h, ? the split down the middle ones? | 04:41 |
| RST38h | *or* use their screens for anything other than watching movies | 04:41 |
| RST38h | lcuk: now, the macbook-like ones | 04:41 |
| RST38h | with nasty little square keys located some space apart | 04:42 |
| lcuk | ahh i have an apple bt mini keyboard | 04:42 |
| lcuk | i know what you mean | 04:42 |
| lcuk | my fingers bounce of the keys exceptionally well, i like them | 04:42 |
| lcuk | gnite anyway :P | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: a short comment on 'optimizing performance by replacing x11 by fb + own libs"? As that's what's been discussed here some hours ago :-) | 04:44 |
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| * RST38h cackles noting that modern UIs mostly shuffle bitmaps anyway | 04:44 | |
| RST38h | so, 90% of the X11 API goes unused :) | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: iirc you were quite clear on that, last time a similar idea was bounced around | 04:45 |
| MNZ | RST38h, which is exactly what we were saying :/ | 04:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | who cares about unused api? | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't have to carry it on your back uphill | 04:47 |
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| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, it means X11 is largely not to blame for the slow downs | 04:47 |
| raster | RST38h: "so what?" | 04:47 |
| raster | "90% of the linux kernel source goes unused?" | 04:48 |
| raster | shiould we just use a different kernel/os entirely? | 04:48 |
| pronto | gnu/hurd! :D | 04:48 |
| * pronto hides | 04:48 | |
| raster | hehehe | 04:48 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: summary of earlier convo? | 04:50 |
| MNZ | raster, earlier, we were arguing on whether X11 is really a huge slow down | 04:50 |
| raster | ie "l;ets just ditch x11 and do everythnig direct to fb?" | 04:50 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, to be clear, additional functionality isn't the issue, its the sheer number and extent of branching within the existing used functions that adds to the complexity | 04:50 |
| SpeedEvil | X11 slowdown is a lie. | 04:50 |
| raster | MNZ: i'd say thats a fallacy :) | 04:50 |
| raster | the vast majority of the cases for "x11 os slow" is "the driver sucks" | 04:50 |
| lcuk | its not on its own | 04:50 |
| raster | and that happens irrespective of x11 or not | 04:51 |
| lcuk | but if its used for a lot of things | 04:51 |
| MNZ | Which is what I was saying... | 04:51 |
| raster | u'd have sucky drivers anywhere | 04:51 |
| lcuk | as it is told to | 04:51 |
| lcuk | it becomes an issue | 04:51 |
| raster | the other side is that x11 EXPOSEs a chunk of cpu "time" that apps would use ANYWAY | 04:51 |
| raster | it just shows up in "top' to be x11 | 04:51 |
| MNZ | jacekowski, ^^ | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | And the memory usage confuses people too | 04:51 |
| raster | and people "bitch" that "omg! x11 is using 20% cpu! if i didnt have x11 it'd be 20% faster!" | 04:51 |
| raster | where in almost every single case all that you'd do is move that 20% to another windowing system daemon | 04:52 |
| raster | OR u'd put it bakc into the process itself | 04:52 |
| raster | and u'd have a zero-sum gain | 04:52 |
| raster | same with memory usage too | 04:52 |
| raster | no different | 04:52 |
| raster | there are SOME areas where x could be much better | 04:52 |
| raster | some | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | There is some interesting work being done on hot-code path optimisation in processors. | 04:53 |
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| raster | but the only people who can intelligently discuss those and know what they are generally the same peolpe that know the deep down innards of x11 | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Throwing out all but the bare subset to run common apps | 04:53 |
| raster | and xlib and toolkits/wm's/compositors | 04:53 |
| lcuk | oh, interesting SpeedEvil | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - if GCC doesn't use the instruction - there is little point in putting it on silicon | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | As a silly example. | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | At least in a primary core that's for battery saving | 04:54 |
| raster | and they all pretty much agree that x11 isnt really to be thrown out - just improved a bit and optimised where usage patterns change to work around a feature missing or use a path that before was less used and optimised | 04:54 |
| RST38h | raster: dunno | 04:54 |
| raster | i do know | 04:54 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100901091940.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29&utm_content=Google+UK | 04:54 |
| raster | :) | 04:54 |
| lcuk | raster, since the world is a big enough place | 04:55 |
| lcuk | we already have people looking at both alternatives | 04:55 |
| lcuk | and will no doubt meet somewhere in the middle | 04:55 |
| raster | i've spent more time over the past 15 years or so making x dance and do things no one thought it could or should to need to worry that there is an argument for ditching x11. | 04:55 |
| raster | lcuk: there is no middle | 04:55 |
| raster | lcuk: u dont "half get rid of x11" | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: umm | 04:56 |
| raster | chances are x11 just gets a new extension or 2 | 04:56 |
| * SpeedEvil trrries to remember that half-get-rid-of-x11 thing. | 04:56 | |
| raster | legacy "rarely used ops" are relegated to a blob of "it works but no one bothers with it anymore" code | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | It implemented x11 on windows using native windows | 04:56 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: tinyx? | 04:57 |
| raster | microwindows? | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Rarely used ops in software - yes - in hardware they may actually cost. | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | native mswindows | 04:57 |
| raster | there was some attempt to do it in-0kernel with a libx11 (xlib-compat thing) on the kernel | 04:57 |
| raster | dunno | 04:57 |
| raster | there was one for amiga os too | 04:57 |
| raster | i believe | 04:57 |
| raster | way back | 04:57 |
| lcuk | theres also wayland | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't used windows for a while. | 04:57 |
| raster | the problemis you are not fully compatible | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | 98SE I think it was. | 04:57 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 04:58 |
| raster | you are... annoyingly close | 04:58 |
| RST38h | VS C++ Express requires 2.4GB for installation | 04:58 |
| lcuk | raster, sure | 04:58 |
| RST38h | WHAT THE HELL FOR? | 04:58 |
| lcuk | documentation | 04:58 |
| lcuk | msdn is large | 04:58 |
| lcuk | and the sdk also | 04:58 |
| raster | x11 is changing in many ways | 04:58 |
| raster | its adding multitouch support | 04:59 |
| raster | hell - its already all possible - its a driver + toolkit matter | 04:59 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs at stupid patents. | 04:59 | |
| raster | efl already supports multitouch | 04:59 |
| raster | has for a while now | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Which reminds me - I need to mail vmware. | 04:59 |
| lcuk | yeah raster, cool | 04:59 |
| raster | works for me on my devices.. but thats ebcause they have mt screens and drviers and xi2 is exposing multiple touch point devices | 04:59 |
| raster | so i dont see how u can say "u need to kill x11 because of mt" | 04:59 |
| * RST38h wonders if he can skip msdn | 05:00 | |
| raster | compositing is a new brave world of pain for x11 | 05:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'I intend to rewrite this 1998 kernel code for the current kernel' Can you confirm that you will not take legal action WRT your 2004 patent' | 05:00 |
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| lcuk | raster, sure managing a bitmap surface of that size is a pain | 05:00 |
| raster | its quite amazing that it works | 05:00 |
| * lcuk tries not to | 05:00 | |
| raster | and a chunk of little things its bad at can actually be solved entirely between compositors and toolkits | 05:00 |
| raster | x11 core doesnt need to be involved at all | 05:00 |
| raster | the hard bit is agreeing | 05:01 |
| raster | but i think there is a willingess to agree and improve there | 05:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | raster: linero? | 05:01 |
| raster | the only things right now that i think x11 could really need is | 05:01 |
| SpeedEvil | or aligned projects? | 05:01 |
| raster | 1. input translation/manager | 05:01 |
| RST38h | You do all understand that you are repeating the same argument that led to XRender extension many years ago? | 05:02 |
| raster | (like wm and cm - we need an im. and not the scim/xim one. one were mouse, key etc. events go thru a translation/manager layer that can enforce policy - transforms etc. etc.) | 05:02 |
| raster | and | 05:02 |
| RST38h | And (on smaller scale) to the client-side X11 API implementation, framebuffer-based GTK and Qt, etc | 05:02 |
| raster | 2. a "better" shm than mit-shm for directly exposing pixeld ata to avoid copies (when possible with the hw arch underneath) | 05:03 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: linaro? no. :) | 05:03 |
| * RST38h personally thinks all UI has to be moved to EMACS, out of malice and sociopathy | 05:03 | |
| * lcuk creates an instance of RST38h in plan9 | 05:03 | |
| RST38h | plan9 was good, so was AmigaOS =) | 05:04 |
| lcuk | ++ | 05:04 |
| raster | hehehe | 05:04 |
| raster | i loved my workbench | 05:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: BTW, yet another crazy enterpreneur has bought Amiga trademark and is going to sell newly built A500s with AROS | 05:04 |
| raster | Forbid() was my favorite syscall | 05:04 |
| lcuk | yeah, cygnused and directory opus kicked ass | 05:04 |
| lcuk | yes RST38h i saw | 05:04 |
| RST38h | Give whole meaning to the phrase "screwing a dead horse" | 05:05 |
| lcuk | computer in a keyboard was awesome | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I had the joy to learn about multitasking OS from NeXT & AmigaOS | 05:05 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders what old computer hardware he'd like. | 05:05 | |
| lcuk | i read from cover to cover many times the amiga basic manual | 05:05 |
| lcuk | i had no other source of computing input other than library books and magazines at the time | 05:05 |
| * RST38h was blown away by the multiple screens concept | 05:05 | |
| raster | did u have the system programmers guide? | 05:06 |
| raster | and the KRM? | 05:06 |
| raster | err | 05:06 |
| raster | RKM? | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | RKM yeah | 05:06 |
| raster | way too much fun dreaming up copper lists :) | 05:06 |
| lcuk | HAM mode was kickass | 05:06 |
| raster | it was a cool hack | 05:06 |
| RST38h | HAM mode is nothing compared to some V9958 modes on MSX2+ | 05:07 |
| raster | but it proved most annoying | 05:07 |
| lcuk | and I was liking fractals and coding | 05:07 |
| RST38h | raster: funnily, this "hack" is used nowadays, in many DVD players | 05:07 |
| raster | ugh | 05:07 |
| raster | that explains the quality | 05:07 |
| RST38h | raster: only they also make it non-linear (checkerboard-like) to optimize for MPEG decoding | 05:07 |
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| RST38h | raster: Quality? What quality? Check your MPEG format. Then, just to be sure, check PAL format description ;) | 05:08 |
| raster | pal... pffft | 05:08 |
| raster | analogue | 05:08 |
| raster | composite | 05:08 |
| raster | pffffffffffffffffffffffft | 05:08 |
| raster | yuk | 05:09 |
| RST38h | What is wrong with analogue? Classic games look way better in analogue | 05:09 |
| raster | yuk | 05:09 |
| pigeon | deep down, you know you want all your apps all in html5/javascript, sitting in a cloud somewhere | 05:11 |
| PolarFox | pigeon: and run by google. | 05:12 |
| RST38h | would you like a toilet plunger with that? | 05:12 |
| jpinx-eeepc | irssi and bitlbee | 05:12 |
| jpinx-eeepc | in a screen | 05:12 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 05:13 | |
| SpeedEvil | I still need to work out how to get xrandr to do non-orthogonal screens | 05:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to lie down, and 30 degrees off would be about right for optimal comfort. | 05:13 |
| SpeedEvil | (of my laptop) | 05:14 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests prism goggles | 05:14 | |
| RST38h | direct neural interface | 05:15 |
| RST38h | (just remove the eyes and plug into eyesockets) | 05:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or just rotate eyes by 30° | 05:15 |
| RST38h | gooood idea | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - the more logical solution would be to take my laptop apart, and replace the baseplate. | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | So it can actually be used mobile | 05:16 |
| RST38h | hang it from the ceiling by a thread | 05:16 |
| * RST38h wonders if answering a guy named "Fresh Prince of Nowhere" is socially acceptable | 05:17 | |
| RST38h | Prolly not | 05:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | On pondering somewhat - the only bit of old computer hardware I'd really like would be a difference engine. | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd like a nice HP-calculator | 05:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | with real cool buttons | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | darn, those guys knew how to build keyboards | 05:23 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: horizontal doesn't work for you? | 05:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | horizontal? | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | my HP-41CV incinerated 2 years ago :`( | 05:25 |
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| MNZ | night folks! | 05:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Oh. My head is -------- | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | __________/ | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | up like that a bit | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | For comfort. | 05:38 |
| SpeedEvil | So I want the display canted too | 05:38 |
| pupnik | yeah | 05:39 |
| pupnik | try this sometime - look in a mirror at your eyeballs - tilt your head left and right - do your eyeballs auto-level to horizontal? | 05:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Are you high? | 05:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course not. | 05:42 |
| mord | wat | 05:42 |
| SpeedEvil | REadiing text that's tilted at a 30 degree angle is just not comfortable | 05:45 |
| mord | err, you might want to rotate the text, or if that's not possible, yourself a bit to make things more ... orthogonal | 05:46 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: mine do :/ | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: They don't. | 05:48 |
| SpeedEvil | The eyeballs do not have rotation as one of their degrees of freedom. | 05:48 |
| SpeedEvil | If yours do, then please check youself into your local secret alien-vivisection base. | 05:49 |
| pupnik | i knew it... | 05:49 |
| nox- | haha | 05:50 |
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| whatwhatwhat | can one of you recommend a place online to buy an extra battery and charger for the n900? | 06:29 |
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| pupnik | whatwhatwhat: i bought a universal li-ion charger | 06:37 |
| pupnik | it's a bit fiddly to align the pins with the proper terminals on the battery but otherwise works fine | 06:37 |
| whatwhatwhat | hmm, I found some interesting things on ebay for cheap | 06:39 |
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| pupnik | wonder if any of these damage the battery though | 06:42 |
| pupnik | http://econtalk.org/ <<< this is a great podcast for learning economics | 06:51 |
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| npt | how do I get root access on an n800 w/ the latest nokia release? | 08:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ask the wiki? | 08:29 |
| timeless_mbp | ~rootsh | 08:29 |
| infobot | from memory, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/, or http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ | 08:29 |
| timeless_mbp | you want os2008 .. | 08:29 |
| npt | yep, I have OS2008... | 08:31 |
| npt | the latest official nokia release | 08:31 |
| npt | or last I suppose : ) | 08:32 |
| jpinx | does screen run on the n900? | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | It's funny how quickly "community support" went from "Maemo5 on N8x0" to "MeeGo on N900" | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | jpinx: it does on mine | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | funny and sad* | 08:32 |
| jpinx | luke-jr: stsndard repo? or extra? | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | jpinx: I run Gentoo. | 08:33 |
| npt | I run gentoo as well | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | btw, KDE runs on N900 too | 08:33 |
| npt | internet high five | 08:33 |
| npt | : ) | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | npt: you use my overlay? | 08:33 |
| npt | so, do I have to install rootsh? | 08:33 |
| jpinx | is that in a chroot? | 08:34 |
| npt | do you mean you run it on your nit? | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | jpinx: cound be | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | npt: yeah, both of them | 08:34 |
| npt | wow! | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | N810 and N900 | 08:34 |
| npt | I would LOVE to do that | 08:34 |
| npt | I have an n800 | 08:34 |
| npt | do you have instructions on how you did it? | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | not sure how useful it will be w/o a keyboard, but… | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | not for N900 yet | 08:34 |
| jpinx | luke-jr: I was hoping to install screen and bitlbee on the native maemo | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 | 08:35 |
| npt | thanks luke-jr | 08:35 |
| jpinx | luke-jr: I have ssh over usb to give me a keyboard ;) | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | npt: N900 isn't too much different | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | just a different overlay | 08:36 |
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| npt | so, on older releases there was a hack for root access that was built in | 08:38 |
| npt | been out of the NIT scene for like 9 months | 08:38 |
| npt | maybe a year | 08:38 |
| npt | is there anything in that LAST n800 nokia release that will allow me root access? | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | npt: maybe sshd? | 08:38 |
| npt | or must I install rootsh | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | I don't think I installed rootsh/gainroot/etc on any Maemo | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | but it's been quite some time since N810's install | 08:39 |
| npt | well | 08:39 |
| npt | do you mean if I run sshd root has no pass or what? | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | IIRC it asks you to set a password | 08:39 |
| npt | ahh nice | 08:39 |
| jpinx | npt: by default root has no password iirc | 08:40 |
| npt | thanks luke-jr | 08:40 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:42 |
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| jpinx | afternoon | 09:45 |
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| trumee | guys, how can i bypass pulse-audio using mplayer on N900? | 10:18 |
| valdyn | trumee: -ao alsa ? | 10:19 |
| trumee | valdyn: with that pulseaudio is still eating 26% cpu | 10:20 |
| valdyn | trumee: read the help text in mplayer, you can specifiy the alsa hw device | 10:21 |
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| valdyn | trumee: hmm i guess thats not in the help text, but its in the docs, something similar to -ao alsa:device=hw,0,0 , dont remember the syntax | 10:23 |
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| trumee | valdyn: cheers | 10:23 |
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| trumee | mplayer xx.mp3 -ao alsa:noblock:device=hw=0 doesnt produce any audio? | 10:41 |
| kerio | trumee: why alsa? | 10:43 |
| trumee | kerio: I am playing an ogg internet stream and mafw eats up 40% cpu | 10:45 |
| trumee | kerio: and that is with headphones plugged in! | 10:45 |
| kerio | yeah, i doubt mplayer will be much faster than mafw | 10:45 |
| kerio | it's pulseaudio the problem, not mafw-gst-renderer | 10:45 |
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| trumee | kerio, dont think so. with mplayer -ao pulse the load is 21% with mafw it is 40% | 10:47 |
| kerio | hm | 10:48 |
| kerio | yeah, it's still pulseaudio the problem | 10:48 |
| kerio | the fat, greedy bitch | 10:48 |
| kerio | he takes about 15/20% cpu just by doing nothing :< | 10:49 |
| trumee | kerio, so any idea what alsa device should i select with mplayer? | 10:50 |
| kerio | no idea | 10:50 |
| trumee | kerio, mafw is not suitable for ogg streams :( | 10:50 |
| kerio | why? | 10:51 |
| trumee | kerio, because of the cpu load. | 10:52 |
| kerio | 40%? | 10:52 |
| kerio | it's less than 100 | 10:52 |
| trumee | kerio, cant browse the web along with that in the background. | 10:52 |
| kerio | codecs not supported by hardware acceleration take more cpu. news at 11 | 10:53 |
| trumee | kerio: 50.8% puke | 10:53 |
| trumee | kerio: but mplayer with same codec takes 15-20% | 10:54 |
| kerio | and doesn't work | 10:54 |
| kerio | :P | 10:54 |
| trumee | kerio: and using -ao pulse | 10:54 |
| trumee | kerio: it does work! | 10:54 |
| kerio | oh, i see | 10:54 |
| kerio | then... you have no problems | 10:54 |
| trumee | kerio: yes, dont have any problem. but starting mplayer is a bit of hassle | 10:55 |
| kerio | try canola | 10:55 |
| trumee | kerio: i will try mediabox | 10:55 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | uhm | 11:21 |
| Chibi-Taiga | how do i creat an m3u playlist for n900? | 11:22 |
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| jpinx | Chibi-Taiga: it's just a textfile. copy an old one by hand ;) | 11:29 |
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| Venemo | good morning guys :) | 11:40 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | semms no one here | 12:05 |
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| crashanddie | WAKE UP MAEMO, IT'S SUNDAY! | 12:14 |
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| alterego | Good day to you :) | 12:34 |
| TermanaN900 | crashanddie, as if it wasn't quiet enough of weekdays, weekends its a ghost town | 12:36 |
| nid0 | shh | 12:36 |
| TermanaN900 | I have a theory for this though | 12:37 |
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| TermanaN900 | Either A) people who visit #maemo have lives (unlikely) or B) People only visit #maemo while working | 12:38 |
| nid0 | b is partially true for me | 12:38 |
| nid0 | case in point, i work sundays :( | 12:38 |
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| alterego | I should make some breakfast I'm starving ... | 13:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | You can have some of my pancakes. | 13:16 |
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| alterego | OooooOOooo | 13:20 |
| alterego | :) | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Just send an insulated SAE. | 13:21 |
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| alterego | Heh :) | 13:28 |
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| ieatlint | dude, it sounds legit, don't be a wuss | 13:31 |
| ieatlint | you do want pancakes, right? | 13:31 |
| alterego | Sure, and my girlfriend has not returned from a party she went to last night, so I have noone to make me pancakes :( | 13:33 |
| ieatlint | :( | 13:33 |
| ieatlint | yeah, i need to make my own food too... my SO is at burning man, heh | 13:34 |
| alterego | tbh, my gf is a pretty awful cook, and she hates it when I tell her she's doing something wrong. And she never lets me cook | 13:37 |
| alterego | So I kind of like it when she goes out for a day or two :) | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I cheat. | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | And make up truly massive quantities of food, and freeze them in portions. | 13:40 |
| _llll_ | so does his girlfriend | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | So pancakes are a matter of snapping 3 off the 4Kg stack in the freezer, then nuking for 2 min | 13:40 |
| alterego | Heh, nice. | 13:40 |
| alterego | I don't have a freezer. | 13:41 |
| alterego | So I'm forced to eat the massive portions my gf makes :D | 13:41 |
| Venemo | alterego: hey | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - to be honest, I'd prefer a girlfriend rather than a freezer. | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | So I'm not sure you're losing out there. | 13:41 |
| alterego | Luckily I get a fair amount of excercise. | 13:41 |
| alterego | Venemo: aloha | 13:42 |
| alterego | :) | 13:42 |
| Venemo | alterego: I was looking for you the entire week | 13:42 |
| alterego | Oh, what can I do for you? | 13:42 |
| Venemo | alterego: you owe me a workaround you promised to tell me in #qt-maemo :P :) | 13:42 |
| alterego | I generally just idle | 13:42 |
| Venemo | alterego: yeah, I noticed :) | 13:43 |
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| alterego | In the paint method for you child dialog, check the desktop width & height and set the portrait option on the dialog appropriately, then call the superclasses paint. | 13:45 |
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| alterego | It's a one liner, but I'm not in front of my computer :P | 13:45 |
| ieatlint | freezers + microwaves are awesome | 13:46 |
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| ieatlint | and there's a US company that sounds like the vulgar german word for penis that sells all sorts of frozen stuff cheap -- schwans.com | 13:46 |
| Venemo | alterego: from the sound of it, not a one-liner | 13:47 |
| alterego | this->setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5PortraitOrientation, QApplication::desktop().width() < QApplication::desktop.height()) | 13:48 |
| alterego | sure it is :P | 13:48 |
| ieatlint | and woo, i just got ipv6 working on my n900 | 13:48 |
| ieatlint | which uh, is totally useful .. yeah | 13:48 |
| alterego | Then: QDialog::paintEvent() | 13:49 |
| Venemo | alterego: ahm. | 13:49 |
| Venemo | alterego: too bad the autoorientation is buggy | 13:50 |
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| alterego | Well, it works well enough for me, I created a subclass called Maemo5Dialog with that code and some other stuff in it. | 13:50 |
| Venemo | alterego: what is the other stuff? | 13:51 |
| alterego | I'd have to look at the code, | 13:51 |
| alterego | I can't remember what whacky stuff I've been doing. | 13:52 |
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| alterego | Probably nothing too interesting, I think just some "helper" code that I tend to use in my apps which warrented sticking it in a shared set. | 13:53 |
| Venemo | alterego: ahm | 13:53 |
| tobis87 | Hi, if anyone is interested I took together the problems I have with the omap-aes module: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org/msg04890.html | 13:53 |
| Venemo | alterego: I created a library release for the stuff I have | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 13:53 |
| Venemo | alterego: and I would be interested in some of the stuff you mentioned, too | 13:54 |
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| alterego | Okay, I'll upload some stuff when I get home. | 13:59 |
| Venemo | alterego: no need to hurry :) | 13:59 |
| alterego | Well, I don't know whyen I'm heading home yet :P | 14:00 |
| alterego | Need to get two buses and a train | 14:01 |
| alterego | And it's a Sunday which means a lot of waiting around :D | 14:01 |
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| Venemo | alterego: yeah... | 14:02 |
| Venemo | alterego: I know the feeling | 14:02 |
| Venemo | alterego: I got home yesterday, and I'm leaving today | 14:02 |
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| MNZ | morning folks o/ | 14:04 |
| Venemo | morning MNZ o7 | 14:04 |
| dr34m | man iam gettin angry with nokia here :\ | 14:05 |
| dr34m | already 6 weeks gone my phone | 14:05 |
| dr34m | still no sign of it yet :< | 14:05 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 14:05 |
| dr34m | first they said within 2 weeks youll get it back | 14:05 |
| Venemo | dr34m: poor soul | 14:05 |
| dr34m | ye sure thing almost 2 months now :| | 14:05 |
| Venemo | dr34m: have you contacted them? | 14:06 |
| dr34m | yea | 14:06 |
| dr34m | they have to replace some smaller part inside the phone they couldnt fix | 14:06 |
| alterego | What did you break? | 14:06 |
| dr34m | why not just send a new phone damnit.. theres so many people who got new ones :( | 14:06 |
| Venemo | dr34m: agreed | 14:07 |
| alterego | dr34m: they've sold out of new nes now :P | 14:07 |
| dr34m | hehe might be | 14:08 |
| dr34m | gonna get em tomorrow once agin | 14:08 |
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| Venemo | dr34m: just harass them until they give it back | 14:10 |
| alterego | Harrass them until they give you a new one :) | 14:12 |
| alterego | Think it's almost time for me to make the journey home. | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo chan, MNZ | 14:16 |
| alterego | That reminds me, think I'll start working on the theme engine for my GPS app when I get back. | 14:17 |
| alterego | Venemo: know any good resources on customising interfaces in Qt? | 14:17 |
| alterego | I'd like to be able to allow users to hack it too. | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | dr34m: 8 weeks is really too long, that's unbearable. Nokia can't say they are short of silly little parts they need to replace, they have whole working phones. I'd shout at them if I were you | 14:19 |
| alterego | I agree :) | 14:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw, at least here in Germany, but I thinks also in whole Europe, when you e.g. buy a laptop which after 4 months breaks and can't be repaired or replaced, you get your money back. However manufacturer is allowed to charge you for the 4 months you used it and the amount you get back will be considerably less than what you originally paid | 14:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd think same applies for manufacturer keeping you from using your device, just reverse order of things. Device loses value while sitting on their workbench | 14:28 |
| Venemo | alterego: customizing how much? | 14:29 |
| Venemo | alterego: there is QSS | 14:29 |
| Venemo | alterego: then there will be QML in 4.7 | 14:29 |
| Venemo | alterego: and you could also try MeeGo Touch | 14:29 |
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| Venemo | alterego: (will be backported to Maemo5) | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | wth is meego-touch? | 14:32 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: it is a Qt-based UI library for MeeGo | 14:35 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: formerly known as "DUI" or "DirectUI" | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | dr34m: btw it usually isn't exactly Nokia you need to pester, but the shop you bought it at, at least in Europe | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: darn, yet another lib layer | 14:37 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: yes... | 14:37 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: alhough (fortunately) it is not based on the existing Qt widgets stuff | 14:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just out of curiosity I'd like to know the number of lib layers between LCD and app :-P | 14:38 |
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| Venemo | haha! :D | 14:38 |
| MNZ | a lot doc, a lot. | 14:39 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: they said that it will allow the UI to be rendered with hardware acceleration, which wasn't allowed by the previous ones | 14:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sounds like a Qt mega fail | 14:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wasn't there a promise meego will be Qt based so all maemo apps correctly based on Qt were easily ported to meego :-( | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | and *vice versa* | 14:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sounds to me like they are breaking promises just another time | 14:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and honestly if they need new lib to implement hw-accel, instead if plumbing it into Qt in a transparent manner, I'd say that's candidate for the annual WTF | 14:44 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: the existing Qt stuff will work on MeeGo too | 14:44 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: so, using this stuff is purely optional. | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah | 14:45 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: although I agree with your opinion | 14:45 |
| Venemo | anyways, brb | 14:45 |
| Venemo | I'm going ot lunch | 14:45 |
| Venemo | to | 14:45 |
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| Noobmonk3y | right... irc installed on my pc.... lol | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | purely optional like the use of meego instead of maemo, or even like the usage of Nokia prodacts in general. Go somewhere else if you don't like it | 14:49 |
| Noobmonk3y | morning alls! | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo Noobmonk3y | 14:49 |
| Noobmonk3y | morning :) | 14:49 |
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| * Noobmonk3y is considering trying the sratchbox method of designing for the n900 - allthough if i'm correct that does involve some form of C ... meh | 14:50 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | morning MohammadAG51 , morning lcuk , oi frals troutface! | 14:51 |
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| Noobmonk3y | and meh, tis afternoon, oh well | 14:51 |
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| Dilberto | Petition to pressure Kevin Rose to eat uncured pork bacon live on streaming video and drink COLD BEER with it. Have him prove that simple greed and or incompetence was the reason behind Digg 4.0 and its selling out and not something else, if you get my drift! | 14:52 |
| Dilberto | Sign the petition here: | 14:52 |
| Dilberto | http://www.petitiononline.com/krbacon/petition.html | 14:52 |
| Noobmonk3y | random | 14:53 |
| tank-man | what is digg 4.0 mr spammer? | 14:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | who is kevin rose and why do i care? | 14:53 |
| Noobmonk3y | DocScrutinizer, did someone fart? this place is a deadzone.... | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no idea. Fartfilter enabled here | 14:54 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | It's been me who played partypooper 1 min before you said hello | 14:54 |
| Noobmonk3y | :P | 14:55 |
| ieatlint | no more moped for you | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that didn't change the general funeral mood | 14:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | lets test the awakeness... | 14:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | BACON | 14:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | TROUT | 14:55 |
| ieatlint | yesterday was bacon day | 14:55 |
| Noobmonk3y | every day is bacon day! | 14:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | except for MohammadAG51 | 14:56 |
| lcuk | \o | 14:56 |
| ieatlint | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bacon_Day | 14:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | w0000000p | 14:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol ieatlint | 14:56 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, hows the ear? | 14:57 |
| lcuk | ieatlint, that being tomorrow? | 14:57 |
| ieatlint | labour day in the US is monday, yes | 14:57 |
| ieatlint | so yesterday (saturday) was bacon day | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yummy, bacon-themed drinks | 14:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 14:58 |
| lcuk | 1 day is not enough | 14:58 |
| Nitial | shiiit, bought bacon yesterday but forgot to eat :/ | 14:58 |
| lcuk | i shall go and make bacon | 14:58 |
| lcuk | Nitial, you must eat double | 14:59 |
| lcuk | Noobmonk3y, its ok | 14:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | good idea me 2... tis lunchtime after all, not that i need an excuse to eat bacon! | 14:59 |
| lcuk | btw | 14:59 |
| Nitial | makes sense | 14:59 |
| lcuk | : | 14:59 |
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| lcuk | <lcuk> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100803.html | 14:59 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> noobmonkey was talking about mini earth things earlier | 14:59 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> i remembered afterwards I had this saved | 14:59 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> :) its a great photo | 14:59 |
| ieatlint | well, the article also states you may celebrate it on dec 30, and the first saturday in january | 14:59 |
| ieatlint | one would assume you should celebrate it on all these days | 14:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, i likie!!! great pic! | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | bartender bring me a california triple bacon on the rocks! | 14:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | that is a great example! | 14:59 |
| Dilberto | Petition to pressure Kevin Rose to eat uncured pork bacon live on streaming video and drink COLD BEER with it. Have him prove that simple greed and or incompetence was the reason behind Digg 4.0 and its selling out and not something else, if you get my drift! | 14:59 |
| Dilberto | Sign the petition here: | 14:59 |
| Dilberto | http://www.petitiononline.com/krbacon/petition.html | 14:59 |
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| Noobmonk3y | bacon flavoured trout, its the new bacon | 15:00 |
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| Noobmonk3y | Dilberto, why, why why! why would i bother? | 15:00 |
| lcuk | pigs with snorkles | 15:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, makes a change from flying pigs i suppose | 15:00 |
| lcuk | heh | 15:00 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: what's in a california triple bacon? :) | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't know?? damn, I'll find a better bar | 15:01 |
| lcuk | ieatlint, i expect reminders next year | 15:01 |
| lcuk | before the time | 15:01 |
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| lcuk | and IDB needs fixing on a specific preplanned date :P | 15:02 |
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| ieatlint | lcuk: i sadly found out at 9pm yesterday :( | 15:02 |
| ieatlint | it was sad | 15:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, does it matter? thats an american day, just start an english one for today | 15:02 |
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| ieatlint | nah, bacon is to be shared by all, not just an american day | 15:02 |
| lcuk | its an international day | 15:02 |
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| Noobmonk3y | "Some cultures, however, celebrate on December 30th, while others celebrate the day on the first Saturday in January after the new year." | 15:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | well, that means i get 3 days a year | 15:03 |
| ieatlint | it's a day where we can all come together and make fun of jews, muslims and vegetarians | 15:03 |
| lcuk | oh screw it | 15:03 |
| lcuk | its international_bacon_week | 15:03 |
| Noobmonk3y | yesterdat, dec 30th and first sat in jan.... | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | december 30 sounds just right for chaos communication congress | 15:04 |
| * ieatlint wishes he could afford a trip to 27c3 | 15:04 | |
| * DocScrutinizer wishes too ieatlint could afford | 15:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | so we would meet there | 15:05 |
| ieatlint | if i get a decent job this month, i might be able to pull it off... | 15:05 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, you'd get to see me try and speak german | 15:05 |
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| ieatlint | ich kann ein bisschen deutsch sprechen, aber gar nicht gut | 15:06 |
| * SpeedEvil is a jelly-donut. | 15:06 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | wooop chicken, bacon and chips on the go.... | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: nobody will be amused :-) most of the talks are LANG=en_EN anyway | 15:08 |
| ieatlint | yeah, i've sadly not been, but i've got quite a few friends who have | 15:08 |
| Noobmonk3y | hmmm, which vmware image do i need from this page? - http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php | 15:09 |
| ieatlint | and yeah, you people are too nice to those struggling with crappy german... people kept lying to me saying i spoke it well | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/impressions-of-25C3/ :-) | 15:10 |
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| ieatlint | arm chips? | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | a few | 15:11 |
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| Noobmonk3y | random | 15:11 |
| knightstalker | Hello,I was using QCpuFreq for over clocking,I upgraded Enhanced Kernel and now it seems I can only under clock,any reasons? | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | just a grab into my box of crap | 15:12 |
| ieatlint | well, there's a chance i'll make it | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | (no I didn't bother to pick that litter up after taking the pics) | 15:12 |
| knightstalker | Warning: Overclocking voids your warranty, may damage your device and is at your own risk! Overclocking is disabled by default and can be configured during runtime. => configured during runtime? | 15:12 |
| ieatlint | what part of germany are you in anyway? | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounth | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | south even | 15:13 |
| ieatlint | ah, so where there's actually good beer and food | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 15:13 |
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| * Noobmonk3y used to live in hamburg..... mMMmmmm hamburgers | 15:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | more good beer than you can drink and remember the taste | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | highest brewery density in whole world | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7279144 - copenhagen suborbital (the guys with the sub and rocket - live launch stream - launching in 5 min) | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: the way you say it sounds somewhat... scary :-P | 15:15 |
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| Noobmonk3y | :) | 15:15 |
| ieatlint | my favourite is still altbier :P | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Bildeoverføringen kan til tider være ustabil | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh, probably explains why I got a white page | 15:17 |
| kerio | haha what wall of highlights | 15:17 |
| kerio | yay for bacon | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | just I don't get anything except ustabil | 15:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | though they have now updated to say 12:30 GMT - 12 min | 15:18 |
| lcuk | lol kerio you have bacon set too now? | 15:18 |
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| kerio | yeah | 15:19 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 15:19 |
| knightstalker | No one? | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tell knightstalker about omap-oc | 15:20 |
| knightstalker | Aha,Thanks | 15:21 |
| kerio | ~debian knightstalker | 15:21 |
| * infobot tells knightstalker to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! | 15:21 | |
| knightstalker | kerio,Stfu | 15:21 |
| knightstalker | ^_^ | 15:22 |
| kerio | too rude? | 15:22 |
| kerio | ~ubuntu knightstalker | 15:22 |
| * infobot lovingly explains to knightstalker in a way that causes knightstalker to weep with gratitude that knightstalker must read the fine, friendly manual | 15:22 | |
| knightstalker | Better | 15:22 |
| knightstalker | :P | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: though power kernel and esp cpufreq-UI manual is maximum useless | 15:22 |
| knightstalker | I just did overclock for 3 mins and I liked it a bit :p | 15:23 |
| kerio | revert, really | 15:23 |
| knightstalker | I did,forcefullu | 15:23 |
| kerio | i mean, waiting 3 seconds more won't destroy your life | 15:23 |
| knightstalker | ah | 15:23 |
| kerio | but overclocking *will* destroy your cpu | 15:23 |
| knightstalker | kerio,not when playing PS games | 15:23 |
| knightstalker | they'll run ... :P | 15:23 |
| kerio | buy a playstation | 15:23 |
| knightstalker | But as I said,I can not overclock anymore | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: I just took a deep breath from that glue can, and I also liked it a bit. Should I make that a daily custom? | 15:23 |
| knightstalker | Ah,I do have one,I want one on the go | 15:24 |
| kerio | buy a psp | 15:24 |
| kerio | :P | 15:24 |
| knightstalker | Psht,That will cost me weight :p | 15:24 |
| kerio | it's not like the n900 is good as a game console without a gamegripper | 15:24 |
| knightstalker | and I do not like psp >;p | 15:24 |
| kerio | incidentally, i want one | 15:24 |
| lcuk | and knightstalker rather than increasing the speeds | 15:24 |
| lcuk | could it be considered like the n8x0 had | 15:24 |
| lcuk | to change the mode | 15:24 |
| lcuk | to stay at one speed | 15:24 |
| Venemo | re | 15:25 |
| kerio | lcuk: pretty sure that when actively using the cpu the frequency doesn't scale down | 15:25 |
| lcuk | kerio, thats what i am asking | 15:25 |
| lcuk | on the n8x0 liqbase used to render so fast | 15:25 |
| lcuk | it never triggered the speed up to full | 15:25 |
| Venemo | Noobmonk3y: it's been some time since I saw you here! | 15:25 |
| kerio | epic :D | 15:25 |
| lcuk | so the cpumode changed from ondemand to performance | 15:25 |
| lcuk | and then cpu sat happily at its speed | 15:26 |
| kerio | lcuk: i wanna have pretty graphics too, what should i instal? | 15:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehehe | 15:26 |
| lcuk | and appeared faster and more responsive | 15:26 |
| kerio | libqbase? | 15:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | yeah, moved home, never set my pc back up properly | 15:26 |
| lcuk | kerio, #liqbase | 15:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | kinda concentrated on life for a bit :P | 15:26 |
| Venemo | Noobmonk3y: so where did you move? :) | 15:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | about 2 miles away from where i lived, but in with the misses :) | 15:27 |
| Noobmonk3y | so still on the south coast, uk | 15:27 |
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| Venemo | Noobmonk3y: anyways, congrats | 15:30 |
| knightstalker | hmm,so what about under clock? | 15:30 |
| Noobmonk3y | hehe, cheers Venemo :) | 15:31 |
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| Venemo | Noobmonk3y: how is healthcheck? :) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | knightstalker: no use in that. The device usually will run @250MHz unless real CPU grunt needed. By incidence that's the lowest clock speed the CPU works reliably, as for 125MHz there are stability issues | 15:33 |
| Noobmonk3y | good question, not updated it in a few months, just reinstalling all the programmy stuff now :) | 15:33 |
| Noobmonk3y | well, after i eat my chicken, bacon and chips :) hehehe | 15:34 |
| kerio | bacon! | 15:34 |
| achipa | Venemo: Noobmonk3y: speadking of healthcheck, it could display some extra info, now that QtMobility is available... (hint, hint) | 15:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | achipa, yup! thats another reason i'm back kinda, been waiting for qtmobility for a loooong time! | 15:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | just been reading up on it this morning :0 - looks good! | 15:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | i'm assuming qtmultimedia still doesnt work, and probably wont though? | 15:35 |
| Venemo | achipa: has the address book bug been fixed in Qt Mobility? | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | knightstalker: you know the 'l33t" tool powertop? | 15:35 |
| achipa | hey, hey, I maintain just the bindings :) | 15:35 |
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| knightstalker | DocScrutinizer,No? | 15:35 |
| achipa | Venemo: wouldn't expect much until/if QtM 1.1 lands | 15:36 |
| Venemo | achipa: I mean the bug with the unicode characters | 15:37 |
| Venemo | achipa: I heard it was already fixed but not released... has it been released yet? (They talked about 1.0.1 at the time) | 15:37 |
| achipa | Venemo: no idea, 1.0.2 is the actual stable on the N900 | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | knightstalker: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333#post491333 http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Search?search=powertop&go=Go | 15:38 |
| achipa | Venemo: so if it has the fix, yay, if not, wait for 1.1 | 15:38 |
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| Venemo | achipa: well then, I guess it has the fix. | 15:41 |
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| * DocScrutinizer especially recommends this *very* useful short explanation about powertop: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management#Powertop | 15:49 | |
| RCL_ | hi | 15:49 |
| RCL_ | are there any Nokia (MADDE) developers here? | 15:50 |
| RCL_ | I mean, those responsible for MADDE | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 15:50 |
| RCL_ | eh | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | not afaik | 15:51 |
| RCL_ | i'd like to ask about flags/parameters used to configure cross-compiling gcc for MADDE... tried looking on the net, but haven't found | 15:51 |
| RCL_ | built-in headers point to user savanain | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | so just ask | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | odds are somebody is listening who knows an answer, or can point you to a better place for getting advice | 15:53 |
| RCL_ | well, I'm trying to replace gcc in madde with a more recent version (4.5.1) | 15:54 |
| RCL_ | I have the compiler built already | 15:54 |
| RCL_ | now seeking how to build support libs | 15:54 |
| RCL_ | I'm following these steps: | 15:55 |
| RCL_ | http://wiki.osdev.org/GCC_Cross-Compiler | 15:55 |
| RCL_ | right now I'm failing at the attempt to build libgcc | 15:56 |
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| RCL_ | I can be more specific about error I get if it's interesting... but does anyone remember any maemo-specific docs on replacing the compiler? | 15:58 |
| RCL_ | (4.2.1 seems to have problems with NEON intrinsics) | 15:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if there's no answer in 30min, repost. then if still no answer, try tomorrow. Seems today quite a bunch of chan members are inactive | 15:59 |
| RCL_ | Okay, thanks :) | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | odds are US westcost will join in the next few hours :-) | 16:01 |
| RCL_ | oh, I see :) | 16:02 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 16:07 |
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| * DocScrutinizer mooes at RST38h | 16:12 | |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: <RCL_> well, I'm trying to replace gcc in madde with a more recent version (4.5.1) | 16:12 |
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| RCL_ | DocScrutinizer, thanks for reposting :) Yeah, seems like I'm now able to build libgcc (who knew they relied on libppl-c being installed for their configure... that library looks completely unrelated for me) | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q="madde"+gcc+4.5.1 | 16:19 |
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| RCL_ | well, actually including libgcc in the search produces better results :) | 16:25 |
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| crashanddie_ | Warning: if Laszlo Papp comes and adds you on gtalk | 16:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 16:26 |
| crashanddie_ | he's an idiot, just refuse... he's adding people from the mailing lists and hopes to have his work done by others | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's gtalk? :-P | 16:26 |
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| RCL_ | jabber/xmpp | 16:27 |
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| pog | I have a new N900 and I get on quit well. It's a nice box. There are some "handlings" issues... | 16:44 |
| pog | How do I come to the virtual console from Xterm? | 16:44 |
| pog | actually I't not clear, but in firefox it sometimes comes automatically. | 16:44 |
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| raster | aaaaaaaaaargh! | 16:45 |
| RST38h | yes, raster? | 16:45 |
| raster | nokia are being arsetarts again. | 16:45 |
| raster | "ooh maemo 5 update avilable" | 16:45 |
| Appiah | huh? | 16:45 |
| raster | "yay! i cant update vai std package manager... i have to connet to pc and use "pc suite" | 16:46 |
| raster | whihc is windows-only | 16:46 |
| raster | hooray | 16:46 |
| Appiah | O_o? | 16:46 |
| raster | i'm staring at the dialog right now | 16:46 |
| pog | if some german speaking people are here, I make my notes over Maemo and N900 here: http://ddy.ch/Maemo/N900Technologie | 16:46 |
| raster | "Maemo update" | 16:46 |
| Appiah | are you running PR1.2 raster ? | 16:47 |
| RCL_ | raster: try deinstalling soft to make free space on / | 16:47 |
| raster | "To update your device to this version of the operating system you must use Nokia PC Suite on your PC." | 16:47 |
| raster | "Conect the device.. blah blah" | 16:47 |
| raster | fantastic. | 16:47 |
| raster | Appiah: 10.2010.19-1 | 16:48 |
| RCL_ | raster: I had the same problem with PR 1.2 (only PC suite update proposed), but it was only because there was too less free space left on / | 16:48 |
| raster | RCL_: it'd be nice that it actually said that | 16:48 |
| raster | eg | 16:49 |
| Appiah | raster: so you got PR1.1 | 16:49 |
| raster | it checked for the amount of space | 16:49 |
| raster | and then appropriately complained | 16:49 |
| raster | :) | 16:49 |
| raster | probably | 16:49 |
| raster | i havent updated in a while | 16:49 |
| Appiah | 1.1 or 1.1.1 | 16:49 |
| raster | i want to see if the newer firmware/kernel/gl fixes the gl bugs i see | 16:49 |
| RST38h | raster: not news (them being arsetarts) | 16:49 |
| RST38h | raster: you definitely want PR1.2 | 16:49 |
| raster | bnah | 16:49 |
| raster | but making space is going to be hell | 16:49 |
| raster | hmm | 16:49 |
| RST38h | raster: you definitely CAN do it without PCSuite | 16:49 |
| raster | i'll try that | 16:50 |
| raster | it'd be nice if they had a better err msg | 16:50 |
| RST38h | raster: #1: Remove SSH, it is interfering with update | 16:50 |
| raster | :) | 16:50 |
| raster | RST38h: wtf? ssh is? | 16:50 |
| raster | how the hell am i meant to get stuff done? :) | 16:50 |
| RST38h | raster: #2: Move bloody apt cache away to the mmc | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | raster: you will reinstall it later | 16:50 |
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| raster | ugh | 16:51 |
| raster | well i have a lot more on there | 16:51 |
| raster | like gcc | 16:51 |
| raster | and make | 16:51 |
| RST38h | raster: In any case, it is suggested that you try installing that nokia update with apt-get install - the error messages will be way more meaningful | 16:51 |
| raster | and a few dev pkgs etc. | 16:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | how does ssh interfere | 16:51 |
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| raster | RST38h: nice that the update manager tells me that :) | 16:51 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Dunno, seems to lock something PR1.1.1update wanted to ...eh... update | 16:51 |
| raster | MohammadAG51: other than using up space.. dunno | 16:51 |
| RST38h | another possible cause of can't-update is an older qt | 16:52 |
| raster | lets uninstall a bunch of stuff and see | 16:52 |
| RST38h | needs to be manually removed (if apt-get install nokia-update tells you that it is a problem) | 16:52 |
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| pog | anybody knows how to enter a & in the N900 console? (I have a "german" layout, which might differ vrom us) | 16:53 |
| RST38h | "How come I have got this new shiny i7 and it does not feel faster at all?" :) | 16:53 |
| raster | RST38h: because you run windows... or use gnome? :) | 16:53 |
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| RST38h | raster: yep | 16:54 |
| RST38h | raster: Burning ubuntu cd, going to install | 16:54 |
| * raster hopes the gl bugs are gone... got a nice sgx out of memory errrr | 16:55 | |
| raster | SGX Out of mem event | 16:55 |
| raster | SGX Out of mem event | 16:55 |
| raster | SGX Out of mem event | 16:55 |
| raster | ... | 16:55 |
| raster | yay! | 16:55 |
| raster | :) | 16:55 |
| RCL_ | pog, try pressing arrow two times and then sym | 16:55 |
| RCL_ | list of symbols should appear | 16:55 |
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| pog | twice arrow, the all blue Signs are pressed, o.k. but fuer example I don't see a & my keyboard | 16:58 |
| pog | I have to see, whether the behaviour is different in console as in let's say ff. | 16:59 |
| pog | it's true, I pushed the wrong buttum it's the buttom over the arrow, which one has to push twice | 17:00 |
| pog | thanks! | 17:01 |
| RCL_ | n/p :) | 17:01 |
| raster | man this takes too long to uninstall goops | 17:02 |
| raster | goop | 17:02 |
| * raster slaps his n900 | 17:03 | |
| raster | work damnit | 17:03 |
| raster | work! | 17:03 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | raster: yep - mine's dead slow to install, download, configure and load apps, but once loaded they zip along - so i leave everything running :) | 17:04 |
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| raster | jpinx-eeepc: fair enough | 17:06 |
| raster | still | 17:06 |
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| raster | a tad frustrating when i have to "clear space" for an upgrade | 17:06 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | raster: the joys ;) | 17:08 |
| raster | i dont even know if that wil work | 17:08 |
| raster | boo | 17:08 |
| raster | i have spacre | 17:08 |
| raster | just in different partitions | 17:09 |
| raster | partitions SUCK | 17:09 |
| * raster sucks on his n900 partitions | 17:09 | |
| raster | always leaving u with no space in 1 spot | 17:09 |
| raster | and all the spare room somewhere else | 17:09 |
| Lynoure | Any of you use Nokia SDK for development for maemo5? | 17:14 |
| Lynoure | I don't seem to have Maemo Emulator configured by the SDK and I have no idea what to do with that. | 17:14 |
| raster | Lynoure: yes | 17:14 |
| raster | thoi dont use the emulation stuff | 17:15 |
| raster | just scratchbox for building | 17:15 |
| Lynoure | raster: One you have set up yourself? | 17:15 |
| raster | yes | 17:15 |
| raster | well not like it was already on my machine | 17:15 |
| raster | so i did have to set it up | 17:15 |
| raster | i wish the gcc handled neon asm properly :) | 17:16 |
| Lynoure | raster: I guess I'll have to dig out the instructions and do that... I'm getting really frustrated with this. (even the device simulator shows just desktop widgets, not maemo widgets) | 17:16 |
| raster | and my arm toosl didnt segv inside of it for some unknown reasons | 17:16 |
| raster | (and gdb isnt of much use) | 17:16 |
| * ShadowJK longs for some nonsucky SD/uSD/USB-flash :( | 17:17 | |
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| raster | i guess i could try the qemu and gdb remote stuff | 17:17 |
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| raster | b ut it seems the build tools work on other sbox sdk's fine | 17:18 |
| pog | wow from my N900 | 17:18 |
| raster | and on the real arm targets fine | 17:18 |
| raster | so beats me whats up | 17:18 |
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| Lynoure | The Nokia SDK claims it does the setup for you... but nah, no such luck so far. | 17:21 |
| Lynoure | raster: other box's sdk is Nokia SDK or Maemo5 SDK? | 17:22 |
| pog | as I read you develop on PC with this kit and the crosscompile... (but I not yet have tried out). | 17:22 |
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| raster | Lynoure: its another scratchbox based sdk for arm+linux+stuff for a different linux os | 17:24 |
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| Lynoure | raster: yes, but which sdk of the two? | 17:24 |
| raster | neither | 17:24 |
| raster | different os | 17:24 |
| Lynoure | ah, different target os, you mean? | 17:25 |
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| raster | well still linux, glibc, x11, etc, | 17:26 |
| raster | just yes - a different os in name and marketing. not in general raw "guts and infra" | 17:26 |
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| raster | i test my stuff against many an os.build/device | 17:27 |
| raster | it keeps me honest | 17:27 |
| raster | need to find out why yuv texture stuff is not working on tegra2 tomorrow | 17:27 |
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| raster | just to make my chi feel better about "hopefuly not violating an gl-es spec assumptions that work on sxg and s3c gpu's and desktop gl, but not gles "strictly" and nvidia has interpreted it that way for tegra2" | 17:28 |
| raster | so to speak | 17:28 |
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| Andy1210 | hi, i tried compile supertux2 (v0.3.3) with opengles support, build completed, but when i start the game, no image, just black screen with sound... I can start the leveles, and etc, but no image :D. Could anyone help me? pls :) | 17:29 |
| raster | i found the older gle-s drivers had some egl correctness bugs | 17:30 |
| raster | they dont allow proper egl fb config specification according to the egl specs | 17:30 |
| raster | so u have to disable some requested info to get thinjgs to work | 17:30 |
| raster | i want ot get a latest update to test if those and other bugs have been fixed | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: updating to 1.2 from 1.1 on a device with many installed apps of which a large number isn't optified, that's actually a pita | 17:32 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: actually most are | 17:33 |
| raster | its all my dev shit | 17:34 |
| raster | gcc, -dev pkgs | 17:34 |
| raster | make | 17:34 |
| raster | etc. i think | 17:34 |
| raster | bloody partitions | 17:34 |
| raster | should just have / on mmc | 17:34 |
| raster | and be done with it | 17:34 |
| raster | a single / mmc partition | 17:34 |
| raster | and thats it | 17:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting http://wiki.maemo.org/Cannot_install_firmware_update http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | and of course my personal POV: | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 17:36 |
| infobot | optification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 17:36 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: no more nand | 17:37 |
| raster | much better | 17:37 |
| raster | accept it | 17:37 |
| raster | nand is for bootloader and a rescu os fs+kernel | 17:37 |
| raster | thats it | 17:37 |
| raster | and maybe some perisstent info | 17:37 |
| raster | like have a snapshjotting logging fs | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | couldn't agree more | 17:38 |
| raster | and stick in nand the last known good snapshot date/rev/tag | 17:38 |
| raster | so if all hell break sloose during a pkg upgrade | 17:38 |
| raster | u can reboot into the last known good snap | 17:38 |
| raster | :) | 17:38 |
| raster | nand just keeps a circular bufefer with a list of those known tags and dates and some meta-info for them | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | the basic brainfart is to have /usr on NAND | 17:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (and of course /var as well) | 17:39 |
| Corsac | don't forget /srv | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry no idea what /srv is all about | 17:42 |
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| raster | i wonder if i should uninstall all those spurious language packages i never use | 17:43 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ooo an fmms update - i'm behind the times | 17:49 |
| * Noobmonk3y slaps frals around a bit with a trout | 17:49 | |
| Corsac | a large one? | 17:49 |
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| Noobmonk3y | frals - why does it still say "send and receive MMS, hopefully"??! | 17:50 |
| Noobmonk3y | and yes Corsac it was a tunafish sized trout | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, extra optimism | 17:50 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol Mo | 17:50 |
| Noobmonk3y | wow 120kb - biggy for fmms | 17:51 |
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| Noobmonk3y | no visible change :P | 17:52 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 17:58 |
| Echoo | Anyone knows where the placement of widgets on the home screens are saved? | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: ssh (both server and client) never blocked SSU for me | 18:02 |
| RST38h | Doc: Did for me | 18:03 |
| RST38h | Not that I am saying it will do so always | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | also I never heard of this before | 18:03 |
| frals | Noobmonk3y: because users still suck ;) | 18:03 |
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| alterego | in gconf | 18:05 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol frals :) | 18:12 |
| frals | so hows you Noobmonk3y? not seen you in ages | 18:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | very good thankee, finally got round to setting up my pc :) | 18:13 |
| Noobmonk3y | just finished dloading the sdk, so may give Madde or similar a go | 18:14 |
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| Noobmonk3y | hows finland frals? | 18:16 |
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| Noobmonk3y | still cold up there? :P | 18:17 |
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| frals | heh, tis decent.. fuckin weather is horrible now | 18:17 |
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| frals | but im in stockholm this weekend so enjoying being back to civilziation :D | 18:17 |
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| Noobmonk3y | yay! :) | 18:17 |
| Noobmonk3y | nice it is so close :) | 18:18 |
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| Noobmonk3y | bit like me working in paris i spose :P | 18:18 |
| Noobmonk3y | downside would have to be speaking french though lol | 18:18 |
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| frals | hehe | 18:19 |
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| bince | any one knows how to execute a c file in maemo,i mean from within the scratchbox | 18:22 |
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| bince | i used this code to compile it in scratchbox gcc base.c `pkg-config hildon-1 --cflags --libs` -o base | 18:23 |
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| alterego | bince: ./base | 18:23 |
| bince | alterego:oh thanx a lot | 18:23 |
| bince | :D | 18:23 |
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| sevard | I can't copy or paste from or to Tear or Midori's url bar. does anyone know why? or am i stuck using microb :/ | 18:29 |
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| Venemo_N900 | sevard: Ctrl+C then Ctrl+V should work everywhere | 18:35 |
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| MNZ | Ok so who here has heard of DMAI and gstreamer_ti ? | 18:53 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | hello | 19:04 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | anyone know how i can make an m3u playlist for n900 ? | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/everywhere/almost everywhere, except in xterm and similar apps where those keys got special meanings/ | 19:08 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Chibi-Taiga: I told you earlier | 19:09 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | earlyer ? | 19:10 |
| Chibi-Taiga | when | 19:10 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i probaly didnt read it | 19:10 |
| jpinx-eeepc | so much for giving you help then :p | 19:11 |
| Chibi-Taiga | copy/paste it pls | 19:11 |
| * jpinx-eeepc can't be arsed /lastlogging it | 19:11 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | a M3U file is just a text file - nothing magic - copy the format and write your own | 19:12 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i like to write it by pc , i thought it was like '/home/user/MyDocs/Music/" | 19:12 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but no luck | 19:12 |
| Chibi-Taiga | its easyer with playlists, specialy if you have acdsee jusr select all and copy > paste in notepad and save as m3u | 19:14 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | ok just rename the folder but thats 1 shot to with replace | 19:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | it would be beter if the nokias could folder play | 19:14 |
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| Andy1210 | i tried compile supertux2 (v0.3.3) with opengles support, build completed, but when i start the game, no image, just black screen with sound... I can start the leveles, and etc, but no image :D. Could anyone help me? pls :) | 19:15 |
| Chibi-Taiga | btw where does n900 save its playlist ? | 19:15 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i might take it and use it as sample | 19:16 |
| kerio | Andy1210: why aren't you using the sw renderer? | 19:16 |
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| Andy1210 | because slow and laggy | 19:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i cant find anything usefull on google eighter | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Chibi-Taiga: /home/user/.mafw-playlists/* | 19:19 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | so with that line i can make a playlist ? | 19:20 |
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| lcuk | Andy1210, you will have to look at how tuxrace was compiled | 19:21 |
| lcuk | and see about similar | 19:21 |
| * lcuk plays supertux original often | 19:22 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | Chibi-Taiga: yup | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and with grep FmpAudioPlaylist /home/user/.mafw-playlists/* line you even can get current playlist it seems | 19:26 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | so "/home/user/.mafw-playlists/music/exit trance/" ? | 19:27 |
| Andy1210 | tuxrace not similar | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Chibi-Taiga: mafw is using tracker database to refer to media files, so please look at the content you findin path quoted above, and relate what you find to what youcreated with 'save playlist' in mediaplayer | 19:33 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | im in that folder, but how can i see what files aare in there? ,im totaly not used to linux based systems | 19:34 |
| Chibi-Taiga | <- windows noob | 19:34 |
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| secyritas | ls will help :) | 19:34 |
| secyritas | i prefer ls -lsA | 19:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Chibi-Taiga: tracker in turn is relying on tags inside mp3 rather than directory structure, so creating your own playlists in a generic way will involve getting the content of thos ID3 tags | 19:35 |
| Chibi-Taiga | uhh ? | 19:35 |
| lolloo | How do you take screenshot of your N900? | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ctrl-shift-p | 19:35 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | i used to creat playlist for my n82 "e:\Music\Exit Trance Presents Speed Anime Trance Best 7\" that always worked | 19:36 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but this is more difficult, i should have stayed symbian | 19:36 |
| lolloo | It didnt work! | 19:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 shrugs | 19:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it worked | 19:37 |
| lolloo | really! | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lolloo: it always works | 19:37 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i always use playlists instead tags and the order how nokias order them | 19:37 |
| Chibi-Taiga | its confusing | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Chibi-Taiga: ack | 19:37 |
| Chibi-Taiga | it should be like the walkmenphones onf sony | 19:37 |
| Chibi-Taiga | of* | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mediaplayer and tracker are a brainfuck and a PITA | 19:38 |
| Chibi-Taiga | just simple play a folder , although a playlist is fine to sothat it plays on order | 19:38 |
| lolloo | DocScrutinizer51: where is the shot? | 19:38 |
| jpinx-eeepc | tracker - as in gps ? | 19:38 |
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| lolloo | where can I find the screenshot I did by using Ctrl+shift+P | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: /home/user/MyDocs/.images/Screenshots | 19:39 |
| lolloo | DocScrutinizer51: I will check, thank you! | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | or in imageviewer, after tracker has indexed them :-P | 19:40 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i guess i make them the long way -.- | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: tracker as in spotlight / kerry beagle / desktop search, dunno what | 19:41 |
| Noobmonk3y | bbiab | 19:41 |
| Chibi-Taiga | 1043 music files but ohwell | 19:41 |
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| lolloo | DocScrutinizer51: oh Thank you! you the man! | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Chibi-Taiga: at least with decent ID3 tags you got interprets & albums as generated 'playlists' in mediaplayer. And there's musorgsky app to add cover art and edit ID3 on N900 | 19:42 |
| Chibi-Taiga | well, i have folders to with random tracs | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Chibi-Taiga: I am completely on same page with you about size and type of balls it sucks that media player doesn't know a shit about directory structure of media file collections, but meh | 19:44 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | thats why i want to creat playlists but i dont know how its formulated for n900 | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's just so much you can do about it | 19:44 |
| Chibi-Taiga | playlist is easyer for me | 19:45 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | i cant even figure out what drive leter the massa storage has mby that will fix the problem like on smartphones symbian | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Chibi-Taiga: do `ls -l /home/user/.mafw-playlists`; then save a playlist and do same again. You'll find a new file | 19:46 |
| Chibi-Taiga | ill try | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then you look at that new file by `cat /home/user/.mafw-playlists/4` for example, where 4 is the name of the new file | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 6. line=number of files (guess); 3. line is name of playlist you gave; 2. line is ???; 8.+ lines are the songs in your playlist | 19:50 |
| Chibi-Taiga | uhh ? | 19:50 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i made an test playlist in the media player | 19:50 |
| Chibi-Taiga | named as test | 19:50 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but it doesnt seems to find it | 19:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the name of the file is not you playlist name | 19:51 |
| Chibi-Taiga | o i c | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a random sequence number integer | 19:51 |
| Chibi-Taiga | oh | 19:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 3. line is name of playlist you gave | 19:52 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | http://a.imageshack.us/img715/9508/screenshot2010090518523.png for ls -l /home/user/.mafw-playlists/ | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | most likely your new playlist is the highest number file you find by `ls -l /home/user/.mafw-playlists` | 19:53 |
| Chibi-Taiga | am i going the rite way ? | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, do `cat /home/user/.mafw-playlists/4` as suggested above | 19:54 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | http://a.imageshack.us/img545/9438/screenshot2010090518554.png | 19:56 |
| Chibi-Taiga | like that | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Chibi-Taiga: but honestly and no offense intended - are you sure you have the necessary knowledge to deal with creating your own new playlists this way? | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | w00t_, your avatar really has that "Muahaha!" evil smirk look going at the maemo.org pixel count. | 19:57 |
| Chibi-Taiga | uhh not this way, it looks complicated compare to windows way | 19:57 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | i thought it woulda be simple to creat an m3u like on the smartphones | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems mediaplayer doesn't care about m3u :-S | 19:58 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i simply selected all random tracks and copy and then pasted it in notepac | 19:58 |
| Chibi-Taiga | well it does read m3u | 19:58 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but just the directory | 19:59 |
| Chibi-Taiga | it cant locate the files cuz the folder is wrong | 19:59 |
| Chibi-Taiga | like i said earlyer i though /home/user/mydocs/music/ | 19:59 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | but it seems it doesnt work that way | 20:00 |
| Chibi-Taiga | and i cant find on google eighter how it folders it | 20:02 |
| MohammadAG | can someone post the output of uname -r for kernel-power | 20:02 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | if i only know how i can access the right pad to music | 20:04 |
| th3hate | MohammadAG, 2.6.28.10power40 | 20:05 |
| MohammadAG | ta | 20:05 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | linux is to complicated -.- | 20:08 |
| lcuk | Chibi-Taiga, my care engine is complicated too, i could never fix it myself, but i can still happily drive my car around. | 20:10 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i get an headache of this phone | 20:10 |
| Chibi-Taiga | all i wanted is a simple playlist not a code playlist | 20:11 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 20:11 |
| Chibi-Taiga | simply just d:\music\random\ | 20:11 |
| Dassu | :( | 20:12 |
| Chibi-Taiga | never thought it would be this hard for something simple like it should be | 20:12 |
| lcuk | Chibi-Taiga, hmm lemme just read scrollback because it shouldnt be *odd* | 20:12 |
| Chibi-Taiga | why in the heck does it support m3u anyways | 20:12 |
| Dassu | if I remember correctly m3u should be just a text file with file paths | 20:13 |
| Chibi-Taiga | yeah | 20:13 |
| Chibi-Taiga | it is a simple text file | 20:13 |
| lolloo | <Chibi-Taiga> get used to it. | 20:13 |
| Chibi-Taiga | for a player that cant order like nokia players | 20:13 |
| lolloo | hehehe | 20:13 |
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| Dassu | just do "ls dir > file.m3u" to create it | 20:13 |
| lolloo | this is not a phone its a gadget | 20:14 |
| Dassu | linux is awesome :) | 20:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | uhm | 20:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i want to creat it on pc | 20:14 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | easyer copy/paste | 20:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | and done | 20:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | >_> | 20:14 |
| lolloo | Dassu: I really want to know basics of linux, where do I start: | 20:14 |
| lcuk | doesnt media player end up showing things in folders/albums anyway | 20:14 |
| * lcuk has never touched console to play music | 20:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | folders no, albums yes | 20:15 |
| lolloo | lcuk: how did you do that? | 20:15 |
| lcuk | well my mp3s are just in folders | 20:15 |
| lolloo | lolloo has never | 20:15 |
| lcuk | and media player ended up deciding that they are albums | 20:15 |
| * lcuk shrugs | 20:15 | |
| Chibi-Taiga | i has few cd's and losts randoms | 20:15 |
| lolloo | mmm how did you write in 3rd person? | 20:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but i noticed this phone dont play on order | 20:16 |
| lolloo | lolloo has never used | 20:16 |
| Dassu | lolloo: dunno actually | 20:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | it plays on artst or something | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: nope | 20:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: tracker decided they are albums, based on ID3 tags | 20:16 |
| lcuk | it knows kylie fever | 20:16 |
| lcuk | thats just a folder | 20:16 |
| Dassu | lolloo: well double tab presses gives you list of commands | 20:16 |
| lcuk | and pulp different class | 20:16 |
| lcuk | ditto | 20:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | its bothersome to use i3d tags | 20:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | id3 | 20:17 |
| Dassu | lolloo: then there is "man" thar gives you the manual | 20:17 |
| lcuk | whoosh then :S | 20:17 |
| * lcuk carries on bashing liqflow into submission | 20:18 | |
| Chibi-Taiga | why does nokai miss something this special" folder play" | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody knows | 20:18 |
| Dassu | lolloo: then you might search for the "bash guide" actually you can script (do programming) on linux shell. like " if [ 0 ]; then echo lol ; fi" | 20:18 |
| Chibi-Taiga | sigh ill keep using my n95 | 20:19 |
| lcuk | Chibi-Taiga, is the music actually coming over to your 900 correctly | 20:19 |
| lcuk | its just not playlisting in the order you want? | 20:19 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: has to be said that the n900 default software is badly sukky | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway you can play single files from folders, by clicking them in filemanager | 20:20 |
| Chibi-Taiga | well for random tracs its anoying | 20:20 |
| Dassu | Chibi-Taiga: You should be excited to enbark on this new mission ( Like indiana jones) | 20:20 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | need a player like TTpod | 20:21 |
| Chibi-Taiga | thats one awesome custom player | 20:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: seems Chibi-Taiga has random selections of mp3 in a folder called 'my-evenings-playlist' or whatever, or he has ludwig_van/9/1.mp3 and it doesn't have ID3 tags so is sorted under 'unknown interpret' by mediaplayer | 20:22 |
| Chibi-Taiga | >_> | 20:23 |
| Chibi-Taiga | there are linked tracs, well tracks that follow to each other | 20:23 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but since it are only 2-3 trachs i drop it under random | 20:24 |
| Chibi-Taiga | tracks* | 20:24 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | i just dont get it why it support m3u i cant make one | 20:25 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | i guess linux systes dont use drive letter | 20:25 |
| Chibi-Taiga | assignments w/e | 20:25 |
| Chibi-Taiga | systems* | 20:25 |
| crashanddie_ | not at all | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | fact is (for all I've seen) mediaplayer doesn't know a shit about file hirachy, and only cares about ID3 tags, displaying the plain filename only for files.mp3 that have no tags at all | 20:25 |
| crashanddie_ | it mounts a filesystem to a directory | 20:25 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i give up, i hope someday someone creat a plugin "folder play" | 20:27 |
| Chibi-Taiga | >_> | 20:27 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i tryed everything i can think of to creat m3u files | 20:28 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but it cant find the files | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | even for those ID3-less files there's no way to get info about full pathname of file and implicit details like album-name/some-song.mp3 - the album name goes unnoticed | 20:28 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i dont care for id3 | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oooh :-o, sorry I didn't notice | 20:31 |
| Chibi-Taiga | all i want is "e:\Music\Exit Trance Presents Speed Anime Trance Best 7\01 Cagayake! GIRLS (K-ON! OP Theme).m4a" like that | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0,localtagfs::music/albums/Seventeen%2520Seconds/%2Fmedia%2Fmmc1%2Fallofmp3%2FC%2FCure%2C%20The%2FSeventeen%20Seconds%2F03%20 -%20Secrets.mp3 | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually has full pathname | 20:31 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | o.o? | 20:32 |
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| jacekowski | fucking hell | 20:33 |
| jacekowski | seriously | 20:33 |
| jacekowski | i made some photos | 20:33 |
| jacekowski | and then i had nothing in gallery | 20:33 |
| jacekowski | or anywhere | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, killed tracker? | 20:34 |
| jacekowski | just messages in dmesg that there was some problem with fs | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 20:34 |
| jacekowski | WTF??? | 20:34 |
| jacekowski | why there was no message that saving failed | 20:34 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | photos i make appear on pc link under images | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Chibi-Taiga: do you think your "e:\Music\Exit Trance Presen..." foo would work even on a different winblows box, where those friggin driveletters might be completely different? | 20:35 |
| Chibi-Taiga | what you mean ? | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean you're asking for something to work on a linux device which would fail even on windows | 20:37 |
| jacekowski | [ 3650.241302] FAT: Filesystem error (dev mmcblk1p1) | 20:37 |
| jacekowski | [ 3650.241302] fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 371193997) | 20:37 |
| jacekowski | [ 3650.241333] FAT: Filesystem error (dev mmcblk1p1) | 20:37 |
| jacekowski | [ 3650.241333] fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 371193997) | 20:37 |
| jacekowski | that kind of shit | 20:37 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | no on windows it works fine >_> | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BS | 20:39 |
| Chibi-Taiga | als on my n95 | 20:39 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but i know i cant use that path for n900 so i thought to change it to" /home/user/mydocs/music/Exit Trance Presents Speed Anime Trance Best 7\01 Cagayake! GIRLS (K-ON! OP Theme).m4a" | 20:40 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: m3u files have relative paths | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | on *your* windows it works fine, locally. You never tested the porting to a different machine, and now you bitch it doesn't work to port these playlists tah work for your local setup, when you take them to linux | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: <Chibi-Taiga> all i want is "e:\Music\Exit Trance Presents Speed Anime Trance Best 7\01 Cagayake! GIRLS (K-ON! OP Theme).m4a" like that | 20:40 |
| Chibi-Taiga | all systems i have is windows | 20:41 |
| jacekowski | unless it's m3u made with some braindead player | 20:41 |
| Chibi-Taiga | and i know each pc has its own drive assignemt | 20:41 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | if i copy file to c it would be "c:\Exit Trance Presents Speed Anime Trance Best 7\01 Cagayake! GIRLS (K-ON! OP Theme).m4a" | 20:41 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | that are things i know but i dont know anything for linux | 20:42 |
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| jacekowski | besides, nobody listen to trance | 20:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer gives up | 20:43 | |
| jacekowski | m3u should be portable | 20:43 |
| jacekowski | because it's using relative file names | 20:43 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | well i copy them from pc to device | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | then obviously that's no m3u Chibi-Taiga is using | 20:43 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i dont use any applications | 20:43 |
| Chibi-Taiga | well its made by foobar | 20:44 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | but it seems i cant copu the old m3u files to this device | 20:45 |
| Chibi-Taiga | copy | 20:45 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 20:45 |
| jacekowski | foobar uses absolute paths | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so can we agree on "use decent tools and please don't pester linux folks about borkedness of windows shitty tools", pretty please? | 20:46 |
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| jacekowski | thing is that most players try to deal with absolute paths | 20:47 |
| Chibi-Taiga | >_> | 20:47 |
| jacekowski | and find files | 20:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so what? | 20:48 |
| jacekowski | so, at the moment i've got no photos | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | patch linux to support windows driveletters??? | 20:48 |
| Chibi-Taiga | so what app can make them for linux ? | 20:48 |
| jacekowski | because n900 decided that my fs is fucked without any warning | 20:48 |
| kerio | jacekowski: ass rage now | 20:48 |
| kerio | disable automounter on your local box, ass rage, dd everything | 20:49 |
| kerio | then fsck | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | i did | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | but it's too late now | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: thanks for a few sensible words, I was about to go nuts | 20:49 |
| kerio | :( | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | photos are gone | 20:49 |
| jacekowski | if it would warn me i could deal with the problem | 20:50 |
| jacekowski | but there was no warning | 20:50 |
| kerio | use a recoverer | 20:50 |
| kerio | something like undelete | 20:50 |
| jacekowski | no | 20:50 |
| jacekowski | photos were not written at all | 20:50 |
| kerio | oh, you mean the last two photos | 20:50 |
| kerio | who cares | 20:50 |
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| kerio | it's your data you're talking about here | 20:50 |
| kerio | :| | 20:50 |
| Chibi-Taiga | anyways atleast tell me what app i can use to make playlist readablefor n900 | 20:51 |
| kerio | Chibi-Taiga: really, fix your tags :< | 20:51 |
| kerio | there are a couple programs who can find tags from the path | 20:51 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but tags arnt good for randomness | 20:51 |
| kerio | tags are *definetely* good for randomness | 20:52 |
| kerio | duh | 20:52 |
| kerio | as a side note, i don't listen to anything that isn't worth listening togheter with the full album | 20:53 |
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| crashanddie | kerio: so when you go for a quickie, you watch anal addicts 1 through 12? | 20:53 |
| kerio | crashanddie: nah, i just continue where i left off | 20:54 |
| jaska | o.O | 20:54 |
| Chibi-Taiga | my tags looks like http://a.imageshack.us/img825/1549/82854374.png | 20:54 |
| kerio | ;P | 20:54 |
| crashanddie | kerio: good one :P | 20:54 |
| kerio | Chibi-Taiga: so? | 20:54 |
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| crashanddie | Chibi-Taiga: is it a japanese song? | 20:54 |
| kerio | i don't expect my english songs to have an italian title | 20:55 |
| Chibi-Taiga | basicly all are i only romanized them for n95 | 20:55 |
| Chibi-Taiga | n95 no kanji support | 20:55 |
| Chibi-Taiga | >_> | 20:55 |
| Chibi-Taiga | seems n900 has kanji support | 20:55 |
| lcuk | Chibi-Taiga, lol, so you can flex your stuff for the n95 but can't do similar flexing for n900 | 20:55 |
| lcuk | which by tagging your media would actually help for now and evermore :P | 20:56 |
| kerio | romanizing japanese is not that hard | 20:56 |
| kerio | anyway, if you're really into japanese music, you should learn at least the alphabet | 20:56 |
| crashanddie | kerio: nope, you just need an english keyboard :D | 20:56 |
| Chibi-Taiga | eh ? likei said i said i used playlist, ofcource n95 had kanji tracks witch appeared as squares | 20:56 |
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| kerio | so... you didn't fix the tags and lived with the square titles? | 20:56 |
| lcuk | which would help with randomness i bet | 20:56 |
| kerio | lcuk: lol | 20:57 |
| Chibi-Taiga | so what part do i have to fix then ? | 20:57 |
| kerio | Chibi-Taiga: meh, write a script to romanize the tags for you | 20:57 |
| crashanddie | And also awesome if you want to share it with a friend, "Dude, what's that song's name?" "errr." | 20:57 |
| lcuk | run an id3 scanner on it | 20:57 |
| lcuk | to store id3 tags based on your folder stuff? | 20:57 |
| kerio | oh, right | 20:58 |
| kerio | i'd just use a romaji converter | 20:58 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i dont get it anymore though | 20:59 |
| kerio | Chibi-Taiga: the default mediaplayer is somewhat of a nonstandard mess | 20:59 |
| Chibi-Taiga | the media player can read on album or artist | 20:59 |
| kerio | so yeah, good luck on getting playlists on | 20:59 |
| Chibi-Taiga | so i have to rename all albumsto random ? | 20:59 |
| kerio | huh? | 20:59 |
| kerio | what do you want to do? | 20:59 |
| kerio | listen to random songs? | 21:00 |
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| crashanddie | just press the "random" button? | 21:00 |
| kerio | there's a button to do that, yknow | 21:00 |
| crashanddie | or shuffle | 21:00 |
| kerio | crashanddie: dude! | 21:00 |
| kerio | do you *want* apple to sue you? | 21:00 |
| kerio | :P | 21:00 |
| crashanddie | I'm not afraid | 21:00 |
| crashanddie | I'm drinking orange juice! | 21:01 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i used to play them in folders http://a.imageshack.us/img834/6027/57998819.png | 21:01 |
| Chibi-Taiga | just like they apear | 21:01 |
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| kerio | where... where's the antialias | 21:02 |
| kerio | i don't even | 21:02 |
| lcuk | Chibi-Taiga, you could look at different media players which do what you want | 21:03 |
| lcuk | but the system one does not | 21:03 |
| lcuk | i believe ukmp plays by folder | 21:03 |
| lcuk | and when canola comes out that should too afaik | 21:04 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i see | 21:04 |
| lcuk | so if you want to group like you have them | 21:04 |
| lcuk | you will have to id3 tag them into whatever combination you want | 21:04 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i do since w850i | 21:04 |
| lcuk | prior to copying on | 21:04 |
| lcuk | i understand | 21:04 |
| lcuk | its a quesiton a lot of people have pondered | 21:04 |
| Chibi-Taiga | when i got n95 and n82 i created playlist | 21:05 |
| kerio | lcuk: do you know of media players that support bluetooth controls? | 21:05 |
| lcuk | but the tracker for whatever reason does not care for the layout of your mmc folders | 21:05 |
| lcuk | no | 21:05 |
| lcuk | but you could look :P | 21:05 |
| * lcuk rarely plays much music | 21:05 | |
| * DocScrutinizer is pondering to throw together a silly lil script to create mediaplayer playlists from folder names | 21:05 | |
| Chibi-Taiga | good thing is it supports flac to now , no more converting needed | 21:05 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, ++ | 21:06 |
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| lcuk | and allow it to be rerun | 21:06 |
| lcuk | to rescan as required | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure :-P | 21:06 |
| * lcuk supports that kind of thinking | 21:06 | |
| lcuk | simple workaroundish at least | 21:06 |
| Chibi-Taiga | oh another question , perl where can i get it since some xchat scripts need it | 21:07 |
| kerio | lcuk: because it's supposed to be file-agnostic | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure xchat on N900 is perl-enabled | 21:08 |
| kerio | move songs, media player doesn't care | 21:08 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i see | 21:08 |
| lcuk | hmm perl is deffo available, but as doc says xchat might not have it usable | 21:09 |
| Chibi-Taiga | humm | 21:09 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | when i try loading a script it ask for perl or python w/e its called | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h refuses to pull in too many dependencies for building xchat | 21:10 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i see | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | python definitely isn't enabled in xchat | 21:10 |
| kerio | isn't python preinstalled? | 21:11 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | ohwell | 21:11 |
| kerio | if it's not, i should really install it | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: where's my python enabled xchat?? :-P | 21:11 |
| Chibi-Taiga | tobad there is no mirc for linux | 21:11 |
| kerio | Chibi-Taiga: mirc is a mediocre irc client | 21:11 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo16/ | 21:11 |
| lcuk | perl not a dep of xchat | 21:11 |
| lcuk | err perl not mentioned as a dependency within xchat | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: the xchat python plugin is missing | 21:12 |
| lcuk | rather | 21:12 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: I thought about making a nifty IRC client using liqbase | 21:12 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: no, i mean, python | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, maemosdk | 21:12 |
| infobot | maemosdk is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation | 21:12 |
| kerio | possibly python3 | 21:12 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i rather use mirc then xchat | 21:12 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: or at least a fast UI framework | 21:12 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, sure, i thought about it too | 21:12 |
| kerio | Chibi-Taiga: so install windows 98 under dosbox | 21:12 |
| lcuk | i even started to make some notes: http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_191242._maemo.scr.png | 21:13 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, ^ | 21:13 |
| Chibi-Taiga | thats to slow , i tryed that on n82 , and 300mhz wont make any difrents | 21:13 |
| crashanddie | Chibi-Taiga: then / than. | 21:13 |
| Chibi-Taiga | not for an windows | 21:13 |
| kerio | Chibi-Taiga: you should also read about sarcasm | 21:13 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: it needs some sexing up though | 21:13 |
| Chibi-Taiga | sofar n900is an ok phone though, just need to get used to the os | 21:14 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, indeed it does :) | 21:15 |
| kerio | huh? it's not a phone | 21:15 |
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| lcuk | i was more intested in looking at functionality | 21:15 |
| Chibi-Taiga | ok pocket pc | 21:15 |
| lcuk | and requirements | 21:15 |
| lcuk | than of making it look good too early | 21:16 |
| trumee | kerio: yes it is indeed a pocket pc since it cant make sip calls reliably. | 21:16 |
| kerio | pocketpcs are made by microsoft | 21:16 |
| kerio | it's a NIT | 21:16 |
| kerio | dammit >.< | 21:16 |
| trumee | kerio: NIT, whatever. | 21:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | >_> | 21:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | netbook >_> | 21:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | mini netbook | 21:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | only flash is missing | 21:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | >_> | 21:17 |
| MNZ | nini metbook! | 21:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | ans silverlight | 21:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | laso is miss hdmi >_> | 21:18 |
| kerio | flash is there :| | 21:18 |
| Chibi-Taiga | adome flash player ? | 21:18 |
| Chibi-Taiga | adobe | 21:18 |
| Chibi-Taiga | plugin for web browser ? | 21:19 |
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| trumee | 3 months on a 'major' sip bug and no resolution until now, bug #10388 | 21:19 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? | 21:19 |
| kerio | yes... | 21:19 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i cant view youtube | 21:19 |
| kerio | works perfectly here | 21:19 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | guess its opera then | 21:20 |
| Chibi-Taiga | that donw play youtube | 21:20 |
| lolloo | I have firefox, how can I install flash for youtube? | 21:21 |
| trumee | Chibi-Taiga: opera doesnt support flash on N900 | 21:21 |
| lolloo | which package should i | 21:21 |
| lolloo | install? | 21:21 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | darn | 21:21 |
| lolloo | what extention should I download? | 21:22 |
| Chibi-Taiga | firefox for n900 ? | 21:22 |
| lolloo | yes please... | 21:22 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i need that | 21:22 |
| lolloo | it directed me to adobe website to download flash | 21:22 |
| nox- | moin | 21:23 |
| lolloo | but which extention is compatibil with N900? | 21:23 |
| Chibi-Taiga | linux probaly | 21:24 |
| Chibi-Taiga | btw are there any good vid players for mkv ? | 21:24 |
| nox- | i tried enabling flash with fennec but i only got audio... | 21:25 |
| kerio | lolloo: there's an extension for fennec that enables the plugin for youtube | 21:25 |
| nox- | oh i just enabled it in about:config | 21:25 |
| Jaffa | Chibi-Taiga: FWIW, adobe.com only provides x86 and x86_64 Linux images | 21:27 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | i see | 21:27 |
| kerio | it's preinstalled | 21:27 |
| kerio | it just doesn't work on opear | 21:27 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | meh firefox is crap it doesnt support plugins i use on pc | 21:38 |
| tank-man | you mean adobe doesnt support the browser you use | 21:39 |
| lolloo | kerio: Thank you, but in the adobe.com site which file is compatible with maemo5? | 21:39 |
| kerio | lolloo: it's preinstalled | 21:39 |
| kerio | >.< | 21:39 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 21:39 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | opera is the best for now, tobad no flash support but i use the regular wb for it | 21:40 |
| KMFDM | Chibi-Taiga, the built in web browser has flash support | 21:41 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i know | 21:41 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | i just tested it | 21:41 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | just opera dont | 21:41 |
| lolloo | what about firefox? | 21:41 |
| lolloo | it does support flahs | 21:41 |
| lolloo | flash | 21:41 |
| Chibi-Taiga | it sems i cant find out how to get flash running in ff | 21:42 |
| lolloo | I think firefox is best | 21:42 |
| lolloo | fast too | 21:42 |
| Chibi-Taiga | also it dont suppor some of the plugins i use on pc | 21:42 |
| Chibi-Taiga | fast ? | 21:42 |
| Chibi-Taiga | youre nuts | 21:42 |
| lolloo | hahaha | 21:42 |
| Chibi-Taiga | ff is one of the slowest web brouwser | 21:42 |
| Chibi-Taiga | since it takes alot ram to load it | 21:42 |
| lolloo | true | 21:43 |
| Chibi-Taiga | even on my pc it takes uo +/-10 sec befor ff opens | 21:43 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | up to * | 21:43 |
| Chibi-Taiga | its just ff supports alot | 21:43 |
| Chibi-Taiga | is a reason why i use it on pc | 21:43 |
| Chibi-Taiga | oh yeah is there an messenger live for maemo ? | 21:46 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | psfreedom needs musb_core.h to be built | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | that's not part of the headers package | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | can i provide binaries in the source package, or should I pull in the whole kernel source? | 21:54 |
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| kerio | did you all ignore Chibi-Taiga but me? | 21:55 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, | 21:56 |
| lcuk | "musb_core.h" needs building? | 21:57 |
| lcuk | what does it get compiled into | 21:57 |
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| lcuk | its a header.. | 21:57 |
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| * Noobmonk3y lols | 21:57 | |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG51: add build depend to kernel sources | 21:57 |
| lolloo | lol @kerio | 21:58 |
| lcuk | kerio, o_O no i had looked away | 22:00 |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol and yay!!!! scratchbox is working! | 22:03 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, musb.c i think | 22:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | err, .o | 22:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | then it goes in the kernel | 22:05 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, check first | 22:07 |
| lolloo | does maemo use 3d graphics very well? I get sluggish performance when moving through apps! | 22:07 |
| lcuk | because .h usually does not produce anything | 22:07 |
| lcuk | since its headers | 22:07 |
| lcuk | lolloo, powervr dashboard and desktop panning and stuff | 22:07 |
| lcuk | and the dialogs fade and pop using it | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'll check the full source when i'm back | 22:08 |
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| lcuk | when do you get sluggishnes | 22:08 |
| lcuk | s | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | should get a bag for my new laptop | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | it doesn't fit in my old 12" one, for obvious reasons | 22:08 |
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| Noobmonk3y | right, back laters! :) | 22:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | nite alls | 22:09 |
| lolloo | lcuk: contacts, programs dashboard | 22:09 |
| lcuk | lolloo, dashboard works for many people, which bit of it doesnt | 22:09 |
| lcuk | nite Noobmonk3y | 22:09 |
| lcuk | \ol | 22:09 |
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| lolloo | lcuk: When scrolling through my apps i get sluggish movements as if thier is no gfx card built in the fone, and dont forget contacts! horrible slideshow! | 22:12 |
| * nox- suspects the sluggishness just means is swapping | 22:13 | |
| nox- | its | 22:13 |
| ShadowJK | I get sluggishness when scrolling stuff in gpodder too :) | 22:14 |
| * ShadowJK blames gtk | 22:14 | |
| nox- | .oO(which might be the reason iphones only allow running one app at a time?) | 22:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | lol | 22:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | iphone | 22:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | the worst ever | 22:14 |
| nox- | hehe | 22:14 |
| Chibi-Taiga | onlything thats good about them is the display | 22:14 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | thats all the rest is crap for a huge ammount of $$ | 22:15 |
| lolloo | no really I get bad performance when looking through my contacts! | 22:15 |
| * nox- still remembers the time when apple computers came with schematics and everything, and now you have to `jailbreak' their stuff... | 22:15 | |
| Chibi-Taiga | my n900 works fine wit htat | 22:15 |
| nox- | where has the world come to :( | 22:15 |
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| lolloo | maemo5 should have better gfx drivers! Dont you guys think that? | 22:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | its probaly not the drivers but the chip | 22:16 |
| lolloo | I even overclocked my fone but sluggynish is still there! | 22:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | 825 mhz here | 22:16 |
| Chibi-Taiga | works fine | 22:16 |
| lolloo | niceeeee | 22:16 |
| lolloo | Do you use QcpuFreq? | 22:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | when i try 900mhz, it reboots but its still stock | 22:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | no | 22:17 |
| Chibi-Taiga | xterminal overclock | 22:17 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | http://www.symbian-freak.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=43054 | 22:18 |
| Chibi-Taiga | 900mhz is safe still | 22:18 |
| Chibi-Taiga | 1150 mhz is rage | 22:18 |
| Chibi-Taiga | youre phone need to be realy stable to run that | 22:19 |
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| rtyler | is there any means of using GnuPG with maemo 5's built-in mail client? | 22:19 |
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| lcuk | nox-, one app at a time wouldnt matter, its the sheer work that gtk + x11 combined have to do and whilst I know theres optimisations around, am not sure of whether they were stable and generic enough to be accepted | 22:20 |
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| nox- | mm idunnu xorg on my 486 was more `responsive' as long as the box wasnt swapping... | 22:22 |
| MNZ | ~overclocking | 22:22 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 22:22 |
| MNZ | ~botsnack | 22:22 |
| infobot | MNZ: :) | 22:22 |
| RST38h | yes, what if I... | 22:23 |
| RST38h | and then... | 22:23 |
| lcuk | nox-, make your 486 do compositing too | 22:23 |
| RST38h | it should work, right? | 22:23 |
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| alterego | Heh | 22:23 |
| nox- | lcuk, :) | 22:23 |
| MNZ | ~nuke Overclocked N900 | 22:23 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Overclocked N900 ... B☢☢M! | 22:23 | |
| nox- | lcuk, the gfx card could only do 2d `accelleration' (was an s3 trio 64 with 2 MB) | 22:24 |
| rtyler | ~nuke nox's house | 22:24 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at nox's house ... B☢☢M! | 22:24 | |
| Chibi-Taiga | like i said its fully tested 900 mhz is safe | 22:25 |
| Chibi-Taiga | over it its a chance to break it | 22:25 |
| Chibi-Taiga | 1150 mhz can do at max | 22:25 |
| nox- | rtyler, the 486 was already dead anyway :P | 22:25 |
| lolloo | I did 1000 but using QcpuFreq | 22:25 |
| lolloo | is it reliable? | 22:25 |
| Chibi-Taiga | i dont know | 22:26 |
| lcuk | oi Chibi-Taiga | 22:26 |
| lcuk | "is safe" | 22:26 |
| lcuk | quit that | 22:26 |
| Chibi-Taiga | well acording to the forums 900mhz is safe | 22:26 |
| lcuk | in your singular experience you may run that | 22:26 |
| lolloo | can you provide me with the commands for xterm? | 22:26 |
| Chibi-Taiga | you need files for it | 22:26 |
| lolloo | i did | 22:26 |
| Chibi-Taiga | and i posted the link for it | 22:26 |
| lolloo | uname -r | 22:26 |
| Chibi-Taiga | just register | 22:26 |
| lolloo | i get power40 | 22:27 |
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| jacekowski | Chibi-Taiga: we already had couple people here with broken phones | 22:27 |
| lolloo | kernel-config something | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | Chibi-Taiga: because they were thinking that 800MHz is safe | 22:27 |
| Chibi-Taiga | no | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | you will be next | 22:27 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: god, you're such a troll :P | 22:27 |
| Chibi-Taiga | will see | 22:27 |
| crashanddie | well, not a troll, just a douche, really. | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | do i look like i care? | 22:27 |
| Chibi-Taiga | sofar it runs like this 2 months | 22:27 |
| crashanddie | Chibi-Taiga: that being said, jacekowski is right. You'll break your phone, and then come and cry in here | 22:28 |
| crashanddie | at which point, we'll go "haha" | 22:28 |
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| nox- | if it really was `safe' wouldnt it already be running at that speed by default already? | 22:29 |
| nox- | hm one already too much :) | 22:29 |
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| rtyler | how about this, a vnc server for maemo5? | 22:29 |
| lcuk | there is one | 22:29 |
| rtyler | in the garage? | 22:29 |
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| * rtyler is still getting used to digging about | 22:30 | |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=vnc&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same | 22:30 |
| lcuk | maemo packages interface is good | 22:30 |
| lcuk | for eywords | 22:30 |
| crashanddie | not only that, nox-, but the real power would come from increasing the RAM speed, MMC speed, etc | 22:30 |
| lcuk | rtyler, in HAM | 22:30 |
| Chibi-Taiga | humm | 22:30 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | link for ram speed | 22:30 |
| lolloo | Chibi-Taiga: when I use QcpuFreq and alter the speed, I go to Xterm and type "kernel-config show" | 22:31 |
| rtyler | lcuk: what's HAM an acronym for? | 22:31 |
| crashanddie | rtyler: Hildon Application Manager | 22:31 |
| lcuk | hildon application manager | 22:31 |
| lolloo | I get the new speed correctly | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | s/hildon/slow/ | 22:31 |
| Chibi-Taiga | humm | 22:31 |
| rtyler | ah, is that something different than the default package manager in maemo5? | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | no | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | it's the default app manager | 22:31 |
| Chibi-Taiga | but after reboor is the speed back to stock ? | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | there is fapman as well | 22:31 |
| Chibi-Taiga | reboot | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | and fapman is a lot faster | 22:32 |
| lolloo | Chibi-Taiga: yes | 22:32 |
| Chibi-Taiga | well the xterminal way stays | 22:32 |
| Chibi-Taiga | no need to reconfig | 22:32 |
| lolloo | also Qcpufreq is easy | 22:32 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, remove all your extra repositories | 22:32 |
| lolloo | you can change speed in one click | 22:32 |
| lcuk | so its the proper safe ones | 22:32 |
| lcuk | and its a lot lot faster | 22:33 |
| lcuk | -devel and -testing really strain it | 22:33 |
| lolloo | Chibi-Taiga: Thanks mate | 22:33 |
| lcuk | with thousands more packages than it ever used to have to handle | 22:33 |
| Chibi-Taiga | so what do i need for this Qcpufreq | 22:33 |
| lcuk | and many many more versions thereof | 22:33 |
| jacekowski | tough | 22:33 |
| lolloo | mmm but I still get sluggish movement in contacts | 22:33 |
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| lolloo | Chibi-Taiga: Nothing really just install it | 22:33 |
| lolloo | and try it out | 22:34 |
| Chibi-Taiga | link ? | 22:34 |
| rtyler | one more stupid question, maemo5 is codenamed diablo or fremantle? | 22:34 |
| jacekowski | fremantle | 22:34 |
| h4waii | fremantle. | 22:34 |
| rtyler | fanks | 22:34 |
| lolloo | and use "kernel-config show" to be sure overclocked is applied | 22:34 |
| Chibi-Taiga | conky i use to se if its oced | 22:34 |
| lolloo | lol @ rtyler | 22:34 |
| rtyler | I figure with x11vnc I'll be able to get stuff done faster while at my desktop | 22:35 |
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| Chibi-Taiga | is it called Qcpufreq in app list ? cuz i didnt see it | 22:37 |
| h4waii | apt-cache says the package name is qcpufreq | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~omap-oc | 22:38 |
| infobot | omap-oc is, like, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that! | 22:38 |
| Chibi-Taiga | uhh is that another packlist that apt cashe? | 22:38 |
| rtyler | hm, which package should I take, from the Freemantle extras-devel or extras-testing | 22:38 |
| * rtyler wonders if the "testing" denotation is similar to debian | 22:38 | |
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| Chibi-Taiga | devil doesnt even work for me | 22:38 |
| h4waii | rtyler; Most definitely not. | 22:38 |
| rtyler | noted | 22:39 |
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| rtyler | given the choice between -devel and -testing though, I'm uncertain which is safer | 22:40 |
| trumee | is there app which well let you search through contacts. | 22:40 |
| rtyler | trumee: the contacts app does | 22:40 |
| h4waii | trumee; search for what? | 22:40 |
| rtyler | or do you mean by more than just name? | 22:40 |
| trumee | rtyler: yes | 22:40 |
| trumee | on PC is just do a grep on the vcf file. | 22:40 |
| Chibi-Taiga | Qcpufreqohwell im happy it runs 825 | 22:40 |
| h4waii | trumee; install extended-contacts-search | 22:41 |
| trumee | i want to search for any string match in the contacts | 22:41 |
| trumee | h4waii: cheers | 22:41 |
| h4waii | Send beer. | 22:41 |
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| trumee | h4waii: extras-devel app. hmm | 22:42 |
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| h4waii | trumee; Continue and your own risk. | 22:44 |
| jacktheripper | I'm trying game development, and I noticed some banding in my 32-bit images. If this is because the n900's screen is 16bit, I can't find a way to convert those images into a suitable format. At least using Photoshop. | 22:44 |
| jacktheripper | anyone has any experience on this ? | 22:45 |
| trumee | h4waii: yeah. last thing i want is to crash the contacts db. | 22:45 |
| h4waii | trumee; Back it up, export all contacts to VCF and store off-site. | 22:45 |
| trumee | i miss syncing the phone with Kde using opensync. | 22:45 |
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| h4waii | trumee; The plugin works just fine on my device for the past who knows long. | 22:45 |
| trumee | h4waii: N95 worked very well with opensync. N900 just craps out. | 22:45 |
| SpeedEvil | jacktheripper: Adding a little noise can help | 22:46 |
| trumee | h4waii: i dont care much about funambol or google sync :( | 22:46 |
| jacktheripper | SpeedEvil: I don't get how noise could help. They're gradients. | 22:47 |
| SpeedEvil | jacktheripper: If you add noise to the amount of 1/2 LSB, you 'dither' the banding | 22:47 |
| trumee | h4waii: does it search in Note field as well? | 22:49 |
| trumee | h4waii: http://maemo.org/packages/view/extended-contacts-search/ doesnt mention that. | 22:49 |
| h4waii | trumee; No. | 22:49 |
| trumee | h4waii: ok. doesnt help me then. | 22:49 |
| trumee | h4waii: i usually have interesting bits in the Note field. | 22:50 |
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| kerio | jacktheripper: either use dithering, or use YUV | 22:51 |
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| jacktheripper | ok guys. Thanks a lot. I'm trying dithering now. | 22:53 |
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| jacktheripper | I want it smooth. And noise doesn't make it look good. When I apply some blur, banding kicks back in. I'll check what YUV is now. | 22:55 |
| Jartza | d'oh | 22:57 |
| Jartza | jyväskylä | 22:57 |
| Jartza | and another 3 day maemo-course | 22:57 |
| Jartza | thank god, advanced stuff and not again basic qt :) | 22:58 |
| jacktheripper | photoshop does not support YUV :/ | 22:59 |
| h4waii | :otep: Anybody here using BitchX? | 23:00 |
| h4waii | wtf | 23:00 |
| h4waii | OT: | 23:00 |
| lcuk | jacktheripper, omg | 23:00 |
| Chibi-Taiga | http://a.imageshack.us/img830/5720/screenshot2010090521592.png wierd i dont even have them installed | 23:01 |
| lcuk | jacktheripper, thats a real shock - but the YUV mode suggested is not just for images | 23:01 |
| lcuk | it is a video mode and very different to the normal modes available | 23:01 |
| lcuk | kerio mentioned it because it does indeed support full 24bit, but its not just a single switch in your code to make it work | 23:01 |
| jacktheripper | I noticed, after reading some. | 23:01 |
| lcuk | (incidentally, all jpeg images are stored as YUV internally..) | 23:02 |
| lcuk | and you should not be attempting to use "smoothing" in your stuff | 23:02 |
| lcuk | you should be using dithering | 23:02 |
| lcuk | the same mechanism used commonly in gif images | 23:03 |
| jacktheripper | but I don't want 24bit support. Isn't the screen 16bit ? | 23:03 |
| lcuk | to allow their 256colors to be used as effectively as possible | 23:03 |
| lcuk | jacktheripper, the x11 drivers and all the usual software side is set in 16bit mode | 23:03 |
| lcuk | the video card can support an alternative video mode (which is the yuv overlay) used for movies and other apps, which is YUV mode and sends full 24bit color over | 23:04 |
| lcuk | but i think even then the screen is not fully 24bit, i dont think any lcd is | 23:04 |
| jacktheripper | it's 18bit. I think. So that's why videos don't look as bad as normal images ? | 23:05 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:05 |
| lcuk | jacktheripper, here is a page showing some differences (and a bug in my code) http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm | 23:05 |
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| jacktheripper | I actually tried liqbase. Your scrolling is pretty impressive. | 23:06 |
| lcuk | ty | 23:07 |
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| Lynoure | Does Maemo Emulator actually come with Nokia SDK like the docs say or is that a myth? | 23:37 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: there is an N900 emulator, yes | 23:38 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: how does on activate it? | 23:38 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54225 | 23:38 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: I don't mean the simulator, but the emulator | 23:38 |
| Lynoure | ah, different... worth a try | 23:39 |
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| Venemo | Lynoure: this is about an N900 emulator | 23:39 |
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| Venemo | Lynoure: no way related to the "simulator" | 23:40 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: I don't seem to have those commands after installing Nokia SDK | 23:40 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: launch the MADDE terminal | 23:40 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: where? | 23:40 |
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| Venemo | Lynoure: if you installed the Maemo toolchain, it is in the start menu | 23:41 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: I'm a linux user... | 23:41 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: well, I'm sure it's there, too | 23:41 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: don't see it there next to the other stuff the SDK installed, at least :/ | 23:41 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: I have it installed on my Fedora, too, but I'm currently booted from Windows | 23:41 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE | 23:42 |
| Lynoure | I've so far tried on 2 different Kubuntus and 1 Debian, and the darn emulator is nowhere to be seen. | 23:42 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: "Use the terminal to run the MADDE commands as described in the guides." | 23:43 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: you have the mad command working, right? | 23:43 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: that was the command that was not found. Do I need to install MADDE separately in addition to the SDK? | 23:44 |
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| Venemo | Lynoure: no, the SDK works with MADDE, too | 23:45 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: but you can certainly try installing MADDE | 23:45 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: should work | 23:45 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: hmm... but I don't have that command. :/ | 23:45 |
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| Venemo | Lynoure: I believe you. Try installing MADDE separately | 23:46 |
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| Lynoure | Venemo: takes a bit to download, but yes, trying. | 23:47 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: works for me on Windows, btw | 23:47 |
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| Lynoure | Venemo: not quite ready to change an OS for this =) | 23:48 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: I know, I know | 23:49 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: just sayin' that it works | 23:49 |
| Lynoure | Venemo: *nod* | 23:49 |
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| Venemo | Lynoure: btw, someone else asked for this the other day... worked for him too after I have him the link | 23:50 |
| Venemo | Lynoure: although I dunno what OS he used | 23:50 |
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