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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (sudser) it's as sophisticated as *#-enabler - a 5liner postinstall. The question isn't how/who to test it on m5/n900, the concerns are if it's a basically god or evil idea to allow root without password | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | ( *** Stskeeps setzt Modus: +b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.198.) THANKS | 00:03 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer why? | 00:04 |
| ZogG | i log in from webgate sometimes | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900*a and certain IPs is a guaranteed PITA | 00:05 |
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| ZogG | so? | 00:05 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, we have kernels which can overclock the device | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | this dude is trolling here since months, and I thought "WTF?! him again?" while reading backscroll, before I ran into Stskeeps taking care of it. So I don't have to do | 00:06 |
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| ZogG | DocScrutinizer, that's true | 00:06 |
| ZogG | i'm the troll king here | 00:07 |
| ZogG | let's keep it like that | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so, as I'm not really here (you just think I am)... cya, I know channel is cosy and warm | 00:07 |
| * ZogG hugs DocScrutinizer | 00:07 | |
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| ZogG | she is damn hot | 00:09 |
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| * ZogG mp> Tekken.2010.1080p.BluRay.x264-ELiTE.mkv [1920x816 H264 1000.000fps] | 00:09 | |
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| TiagoTiago | fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck Dx | 00:16 |
| TiagoTiago | storage format not supported | 00:17 |
| steinex | about getting an invisible shield on the n900... | 00:17 |
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| TiagoTiago | i hadn't even got to 1 Ghz, but is seems it was enough to screw the internal memory Dx | 00:17 |
| steinex | someone from germany that can tell me a shop who _does_ it? | 00:17 |
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| ZogG | TiagoTiago ? | 00:18 |
| TiagoTiago | somthing went wrong with my N900 | 00:19 |
| kerio | trumee: if someone ports it | 00:19 |
| ZogG | reboot | 00:19 |
| kerio | it's opensource and it uses opengl | 00:19 |
| kerio | it's also huge | 00:19 |
| TiagoTiago | on every reboot it gets worse | 00:19 |
| TiagoTiago | now even the textures for the pin entry keypad are missing | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Have you reflashed to stock kernel? | 00:19 |
| kerio | and since it's a fps, it's really not playable without fullsize kbd+mouse | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | At stock speed? | 00:19 |
| TiagoTiago | the fonts are missing | 00:20 |
| TiagoTiago | i had OC'd to 900 | 00:20 |
| kerio | fucked up /opt/ then | 00:20 |
| kerio | oh | 00:20 |
| kerio | hope you fucked up /opt/ | 00:20 |
| trumee | kerio, with a ps3 controller? | 00:20 |
| kerio | trumee: you... you play FPSes with a controller? | 00:20 |
| kerio | BURN IN HELL | 00:20 |
| TiagoTiago | any way i can fix this without having to reinstall everything? | 00:20 |
| steinex | i never understood why people are overclocking in first place... it's a magnet for bricking and does nothing more than drain your battery more. | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Overclocking can cause massive filesystem corruption. | 00:21 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: huh? | 00:21 |
| trumee | kerio, nope never played an fps with a controller. | 00:21 |
| kerio | how? | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: What do you mean how. | 00:21 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't iut supposed to make battery last longer? It make thing be done is less time, and it uses lower voltages and stuff | 00:21 |
| steinex | tommorrow people are installing gentoo on n900, compiling everything to squeeze out the last ms or smsthng. | 00:21 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: must be one hell of a cpu fuckup | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: 2+2=5 - and suddenly your filesystem gets a whole lort more surreal. | 00:21 |
| trumee | kerio, but sixaxis would be better than N900 keyb | 00:22 |
| steinex | i mean - wtf :D | 00:22 |
| greenfly | steinex: probably more accurate to say tomorrow they are /starting/ to install it :) | 00:22 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 00:22 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, Surrealist FS is so much more fun, though. | 00:22 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: we need a quantistic filesystem | 00:23 |
| kerio | that's always in a entangled state of consistant and inconsistant | 00:23 |
| kerio | trumee: hmm | 00:23 |
| TiagoTiago | is i manage to acess it with ssh, is there a checkdisk or somthign i can run? | 00:23 |
| kerio | gamegripper + stylus to aim? | 00:23 |
| kerio | that's the only thing i can think of | 00:24 |
| kerio | but then you can't shoot | 00:24 |
| kerio | :( | 00:24 |
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| kerio | meh, game gripper + bt mouse | 00:24 |
| steinex | TiagoTiago: long story short - if you reboot at normal speed and things are still screwed you most probably screwed your device. | 00:24 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 00:24 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: hmm | 00:25 |
| kerio | the fs is definetely fucked | 00:25 |
| steinex | TiagoTiago: i really hope a reflash will fix it, but i doubt it | 00:25 |
| kerio | so reflash | 00:25 |
| TiagoTiago | Dx | 00:25 |
| kerio | why wouldn't it fix stuff | 00:25 |
| kerio | it's not like he fucked up the eMMC | 00:25 |
| TiagoTiago | if the damage was physical | 00:25 |
| kerio | he temporarily fucked up the cpu | 00:25 |
| kerio | hope it will go back to normal | 00:25 |
| kerio | and DON'T OVERCLOCK | 00:25 |
| drizztbsd | tomorrow I will charge the battery using the hardware-lab power source, with 3.7 v and 900mA | 00:26 |
| TiagoTiago | i hate how there are those scary warnings and yet people all keep trying to push others to do it too :( | 00:26 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: it's because we're looking for lab rats | 00:27 |
| Arkenoi | damn i do not have working google sync solution anymore. first m.google.com stopped working for me, now nuevasync is all fscked up | 00:27 |
| TiagoTiago | is there any chance i'll not have to reinswtall everything? | 00:28 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: probably not | 00:28 |
| kerio | *this* kind of fuckup is only solved by a full reinstall | 00:28 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 00:28 |
| kerio | because really, you don't have a way to check *what* has been lost | 00:28 |
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| TiagoTiago | why i can't run a chkdisk to fix the fs? | 00:29 |
| lcuk | ok TiagoTiago, just open x-term and run fsck | 00:29 |
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| TiagoTiago | is it jsut gonna tell me it can't do it, or is it gonna fuck things up even worse? | 00:30 |
| lcuk | idk, i thought you couldnt even bootup | 00:30 |
| TiagoTiago | i can, but the font i9s gone, it's all squares | 00:30 |
| TiagoTiago | i can access via SSH though | 00:30 |
| lcuk | you have lost your /opt partition then | 00:30 |
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| lcuk | then go and see whats there | 00:31 |
| lcuk | see if mydocs is etc | 00:31 |
| TiagoTiago | pymaemo and nothign else last i checked | 00:31 |
| lcuk | mydocs is most important i would imagine | 00:31 |
| lcuk | since thats where your data is | 00:31 |
| TiagoTiago | booting up again to see if fsck works | 00:32 |
| lcuk | well see if the folderrs exist first | 00:32 |
| lcuk | its missing a mount | 00:32 |
| lcuk | i didnt think you could get in | 00:32 |
| TiagoTiago | i shut it down cause i remember reading that file system keeps rotating the files around and would continuously fuck thigns more and more once somthing goes wrong | 00:32 |
| lcuk | well you overclocking has already done that really | 00:33 |
| TiagoTiago | inside /opt it only has pymaemo | 00:34 |
| TiagoTiago | MyDocs seems to be intact | 00:34 |
| TiagoTiago | at least it is there and has many files and folders inside | 00:35 |
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| lcuk | TiagoTiago, a suggestion: back them up | 00:35 |
| TiagoTiago | how? | 00:36 |
| lcuk | you have ssh | 00:36 |
| TiagoTiago | yep | 00:36 |
| lcuk | do you have usb | 00:36 |
| TiagoTiago | ok | 00:36 |
| TiagoTiago | i'm connecting via wifi though | 00:36 |
| lcuk | but really, your device is being odd | 00:36 |
| lcuk | you still have access to it | 00:36 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 00:36 |
| lcuk | plug it into usb | 00:36 |
| lcuk | and see if mydocs mounts through | 00:36 |
| lcuk | and copy that way | 00:36 |
| * lcuk actually ponders where the mount has gone | 00:37 | |
| TiagoTiago | crap, it rebooted when i pluged the USB | 00:37 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 00:37 |
| lcuk | try it when you arent in the mydocs folder using ssh | 00:37 |
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| lcuk | hey marius | 00:38 |
| mgedmin | /opt is a symlink to /home/opt; /home is an ext2 partition, /home/MyDocs is a vfat partition | 00:38 |
| mgedmin | if /home is damaged, the /home/MyDocs mountpoint might not exist | 00:38 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, he just said there were contents | 00:38 |
| mgedmin | so even if all the documents are safe, they may not be accessible immediatelly | 00:38 |
| lcuk | i was going to ask to check /home/opt | 00:38 |
| lcuk | since his /opt has reverted to a normal folder by the looks (pymaemo repopulates afaik | 00:39 |
| mgedmin | I think /opt shouldn't affect things like fonts and textures | 00:39 |
| lcuk | it does | 00:39 |
| lcuk | specifically | 00:39 |
| mgedmin | custom themes? | 00:39 |
| TiagoTiago | no, the default one | 00:39 |
| mgedmin | or base system moving stuff there? | 00:39 |
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| lcuk | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf#line20 | 00:39 |
| * mgedmin wants a desktop widget with a button "GO ONLINE NOW" | 00:39 | |
| lcuk | mgedmin, pr1.2 optify boottime | 00:40 |
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| mgedmin | (without giving me a list of connections, if any of the saved ones are available) | 00:40 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, hmm | 00:41 |
| mgedmin | tap-wait-tap-wait-wait-wait-tap is kinda annoying | 00:41 |
| mgedmin | I'd rather just tap-wait | 00:41 |
| lcuk | you mean like triggering the "auto reconnect after every n minutes" | 00:41 |
| lcuk | for a one shot event | 00:41 |
| mgedmin | more like triggering the "auto connect because the user tried to open a web page" | 00:41 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, auto reconnect will move to my home wifi when i get home | 00:41 |
| lcuk | or wifi at other places | 00:42 |
| mgedmin | I disabled auto reconnect, I think | 00:42 |
| lcuk | without asking | 00:42 |
| mgedmin | it did wonders to my battery life | 00:42 |
| lcuk | yes, i gather | 00:42 |
| mgedmin | so now I'm reluctant to reenable it | 00:42 |
| lcuk | but your button should trigger that action | 00:42 |
| lcuk | once only | 00:42 |
| mgedmin | yes | 00:42 |
| mgedmin | my use case: I want to ssh in | 00:42 |
| lcuk | understood totally | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Just have a www.google.com link bookmark on your desktop | 00:42 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, it asks for network | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | Or a bookmark to a page which shows, in big friendly letters, GO ONLINE NOW | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Not if a saved connection is available | 00:43 |
| mgedmin | tap-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-tap-to-close-browser-window != tap-wait | 00:43 |
| lcuk | i have about 10 saved connections | 00:43 |
| lcuk | it always asks | 00:43 |
| mgedmin | heh, bookmargin http://istheinternetup.com would be a nifty idea | 00:43 |
| lcuk | heh | 00:44 |
| mgedmin | what do you mean, a parking page? | 00:44 |
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| TiagoTiago | now when i plug the USB nothign is happeneing :( | 00:44 |
| mgedmin | did it expire? | 00:44 |
| mgedmin | I loved that domain and the big friendly letters saying "YES" :( | 00:45 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, | 00:45 |
| kerio | someone should really reregister it | 00:45 |
| kerio | srsly | 00:45 |
| lcuk | then just unplug usb and use wifi | 00:45 |
| TiagoTiago | i haven't managed to set up the file sharing over network yet (i have WinXP on my desktop machine) | 00:45 |
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| lcuk | TiagoTiago, winscp | 00:46 |
| kerio | mgedmin: we still have http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/ | 00:46 |
| TiagoTiago | ah. ft´. pl | 00:46 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, ftp, ok | 00:46 |
| mgedmin | so, /home/opt is bind-mounted on /opt nowadays | 00:46 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 00:46 |
| TiagoTiago | stuff gonna take ages to download via wifi :( | 00:46 |
| lcuk | and TiagoTiago when you do reconnect to ssh, just tell us whats inside /home/opt | 00:46 |
| TiagoTiago | a folder called pymaemo | 00:46 |
| kerio | as interesting as cancer | 00:47 |
| lcuk | hm | 00:47 |
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| TiagoTiago | how do i use fsck to try to recover opt? | 00:49 |
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| mgedmin | TiagoTiago, don't | 00:49 |
| TiagoTiago | why not? | 00:49 |
| mgedmin | first run dmesg, see if there are any filesystem errors | 00:50 |
| lcuk | it wont recover | 00:50 |
| lcuk | the contents are gone | 00:50 |
| lcuk | and replaced | 00:50 |
| lcuk | if /home/opt doesnt contain the right stuff | 00:50 |
| lcuk | nowhere will | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yap | 00:53 |
| TiagoTiago | can't the right data still be there but the file system is simply not pointing tot he right place? | 00:54 |
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| TiagoTiago | the result from demesg http://pastebin.com/W94bNCYX | 00:55 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, pastebin contents of /var/log/maemo-optify-boottime.log | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | tnhings like 'stale NFS' are equal to wontfix/reflash in my book | 00:56 |
| TiagoTiago | http://pastebin.com/SXFg0qDE | 00:57 |
| lcuk | ok ta | 00:58 |
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| lcuk | i notice you have a memory card btw | 00:58 |
| lcuk | you may be able to copy mydocs contents onto it | 00:58 |
| lcuk | that last one tells nothing unfortunately | 00:59 |
| TiagoTiago | i don't have one 0.0 | 00:59 |
| lcuk | how did you get into this state | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | muhahaha | 00:59 |
| lcuk | doh yeah thats swap partition, my tired eyes too | 00:59 |
| lcuk | looks like wifi | 00:59 |
| TiagoTiago | my guess is by succumbing to peer pressure and OC'ing to 900 | 01:00 |
| TiagoTiago | i noticed there were not respositories in HAM so i shut down and back on, and things got worse on each new boot | 01:01 |
| TiagoTiago | there were no* | 01:01 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can trigger the USB mass storage mode with a command via SSH? | 01:02 |
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| lcuk | doubtful, if action of plugging in usb cable reboots it.. | 01:03 |
| TiagoTiago | now it isn't doing anything | 01:03 |
| lcuk | i wonder what would happen if you replaced contents of /home/opt with a folder taken from a clean device | 01:04 |
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| * lcuk will have to try that | 01:05 | |
| mgedmin | well, normally reflashing doesn't erase MyDocs | 01:05 |
| TiagoTiago | would be almost as bad as reflashing | 01:05 |
| lcuk | you have to reflash | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | so you should get all the builtin apps in / and on first boot maemo-optify-boottime would move the right stuff to /home/opt | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | just don't reflash the eMMC, that would erase MyDocs | 01:05 |
| lcuk | thats what happens mg | 01:05 |
| lcuk | yes ahh mgedmin of course :) main rootfs image only and see whether it does its work | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | but if it was me with device in this state i would copy off first | 01:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | ius the /opt partition gonna be remade? | 01:07 |
| lcuk | we dont know | 01:07 |
| lcuk | i would say, assume no | 01:07 |
| lcuk | and backup while you can :) | 01:07 |
| * lcuk is a data pessamist | 01:08 | |
| TiagoTiago | a, great, the page to download the image is asking me for the code under the battery, will have to start copying stuff over all over again, or waittill it's done | 01:08 |
| lcuk | wait till done | 01:08 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can check whether the current /opt is pointing to the right place? | 01:08 |
| TiagoTiago | via SSH | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | check output of mount | 01:09 |
| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/02/shocker-googles-android-logo-boosted-from-atari-lynx-title-ga/ | 01:09 |
| TiagoTiago | just type mount? | 01:09 |
| wazd | busted :) | 01:09 |
| lcuk | yes | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | wazd, r2d2 is also going to sue | 01:10 |
| Arkenoi | tried syncevolution, no luck as well. m.google.com/sync says device not supported | 01:10 |
| TiagoTiago | it only says /home/opt is pointing to /opt | 01:11 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, r2d2 does not have antenas or eyes :) Or arms :) | 01:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | he does have telescopic limbs though | 01:11 |
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| lcuk | wazd, theres realistically only a few ways to draw an android | 01:12 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, talking about the logo, nvm | 01:12 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, that's clearly a copy :) Even eyes are in the same places :) | 01:12 |
| lcuk | omg! | 01:13 |
| wazd | lcuk: not that much exact copy to sue anyone but still :) | 01:13 |
| lcuk | android shaped things look like androids! | 01:13 |
| TiagoTiago | not exactly | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | is there anything worth seeing in bergen in norway? | 01:13 |
| TiagoTiago | also,. the line is in a different height, the antennas are straight and not curved, and the bottom is rounded square isntead of plain round | 01:14 |
| lcuk | http://newsodrome.com/body_art_news/andrea-s-awesome-android-art-r2d2-tattoo-11588013.jpg | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | assuming that i would go there for a weekend | 01:14 |
| TiagoTiago | 912 | 01:14 |
| wazd | lcuk: btw, any bipedal "human like" mech is an android :) | 01:14 |
| TiagoTiago | 912 files left* | 01:14 |
| wazd | lcuk: so there are unlimited ways to draw an android :) | 01:15 |
| TiagoTiago | They could have gone with Asimo | 01:15 |
| wazd | lcuk: http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/4/17/28041_sm-Android%20assassin.jpg | 01:16 |
| wazd | lcuk: for example :) | 01:16 |
| TiagoTiago | i can't get prduct id via ssh? | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | yes | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | from cal | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | well, i can | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | but i'm not sure if there is software for it | 01:17 |
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| TiagoTiago | i just type cal? | 01:18 |
| TiagoTiago | crap, rebooted :( | 01:19 |
| lcuk | what does the maemo or meego icon look like | 01:19 |
| lcuk | describe it to someone | 01:19 |
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| TiagoTiago | hm, is iit an lower case A biting a lower case E? | 01:20 |
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| TiagoTiago | great, product code not being accepted | 01:21 |
| lcuk | searching google images for maemo gives obvious maemo typefaced logo with the ae joined together and a yellow e | 01:22 |
| lcuk | searching google images for meego shows nothing | 01:22 |
| lcuk | for meego the os | 01:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | ah, there | 01:22 |
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| lcuk | meego meegos are the default hit http://markitup.com/Data/Images/FranksMeegoPyramid.jpg | 01:23 |
| ieatlint | someone needs to find the marketing team that came up with that name and hurt them | 01:24 |
| lcuk | and walkter meego (whoever he is) features quite a lot | 01:24 |
| lcuk | http://windishagency.com/assets/4704/Walter_Meego_-_BPM_-__91E28.jpg | 01:24 |
| lcuk | the maemo one is ok, it couldv been bettter with an icon | 01:24 |
| lcuk | but the ae works | 01:24 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, maemo could've done better with a logo or some sort of mascot | 01:26 |
| lcuk | we had a maemo mascot competition | 01:26 |
| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can boot the N900 directly into mass storage mode? | 01:26 |
| lcuk | loads of great entries | 01:26 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, normally just plugging it into usb when its "off" works | 01:27 |
| lcuk | but your device is borkened a bit | 01:27 |
| ieatlint | uh, what won then? | 01:27 |
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| lcuk | idk we were just throwing ideas out | 01:28 |
| lcuk | ill find the thread | 01:28 |
| chadi | hi. I want to try nitdroid. should I get an external memory card or install in built in memory? | 01:28 |
| lcuk | sorry, not competition, proposal | 01:29 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28965 | 01:29 |
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| chadi | and what class of memory cards is the built in emmc? | 01:30 |
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| lcuk | http://maemo-daemons.org/maemo_al1.png | 01:31 |
| lcuk | a texrat idea | 01:31 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:31 |
| lcuk | ieatlint, have a look and make some noise about it | 01:31 |
| lcuk | bring thread back to life actually :P | 01:31 |
| ieatlint | meh.. a maemo mascot would have to be a tad self deprecating i think | 01:32 |
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| TiagoTiago | why? | 01:32 |
| ieatlint | humour and humility | 01:33 |
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| lcuk | ieatlint, then look through | 01:33 |
| lcuk | theres some serious ones | 01:33 |
| lcuk | and not so serious | 01:33 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, i see a raccoon one that appears to be serious | 01:33 |
| lcuk | that theme stuck for many pages | 01:34 |
| ieatlint | only if i get to shout "damn coons" | 01:34 |
| lcuk | damn, its threads like this that we should have picture thumbnail viewer for | 01:34 |
| lcuk | click a thread and see all thumbs of all images within thread | 01:34 |
| TiagoTiago | great, now Windows isn't recognizing new plugged USB devices | 01:35 |
| ieatlint | now i'm on to cows | 01:35 |
| * ieatlint misses larry the cow | 01:35 | |
| TiagoTiago | rebooting | 01:35 |
| ieatlint | haha, page 24 of that thread causes chromium to warn me that malware is detected | 01:35 |
| ieatlint | "The website at talk.maemo.org contains elements from the site www.quedat.com, which appears to host malware" | 01:36 |
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| lcuk | ieatlint, its those pictures on the first post on that page! | 01:37 |
| lcuk | anyway, i am offski | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeHHyXXS9A&feature=player_embedded | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | nokia C3 | 01:38 |
| ieatlint | haha, i only noticed there was a phone in that video right at the end | 01:39 |
| asj | what phone? | 01:39 |
| ieatlint | you'll see it at the end of the video | 01:40 |
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| * asj plays it again | 01:40 | |
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| asj | nope, maybe I need to replay it full screen | 01:41 |
| kerio | wtf | 01:42 |
| kerio | the "down arrow" icon in the title bar is corrupted | 01:42 |
| kerio | and for all the windows | 01:42 |
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| kerio | how's that possible | 01:45 |
| asj | kerio: isnt it jsut a png file on / ? | 01:46 |
| ieatlint | it uses the same pixmap in memory for all instances? | 01:46 |
| kerio | don't know | 01:46 |
| kerio | ieatlint: how do i reset it? | 01:46 |
| ieatlint | i dunno, i'm just speculating | 01:46 |
| asj | it survives reboot? | 01:46 |
| kerio | it's probably something wm-related, so yeah | 01:46 |
| kerio | asj: dunno | 01:46 |
| asj | ah just kill the wm then | 01:46 |
| kerio | nah, i'll switch theme | 01:47 |
| MNZ | try /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop restart | 01:47 |
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| kerio | changing theme worked | 01:49 |
| kerio | but now it's all orange while the keyboard is white and blue :( | 01:49 |
| kerio | it was a weird glitch | 01:50 |
| kerio | now it's back to normal | 01:50 |
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| MNZ | I just hacked up libhildon very badly and waiting for a build to finish :D lets see what this shit will do | 01:57 |
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| pupnik | why hack libhildon MNZ ? | 02:08 |
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| MNZ | pupnik, I wanted to try to have scrolling like in liqcalendar..... not easy. Also, mostly because I was burnt out from all the IIR filter literature XD | 02:11 |
| MNZ | (IIR filter == filter used on the audio codec that I need to understand for hardware eq) | 02:12 |
| pupnik | isn't there some way you can avoid learning it | 02:13 |
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| MNZ | well, there is. I can just bake some presets like bass/treble boost, midrange, etc directly into the kernel after designing them with this calculator program I found on texas intrument's site | 02:14 |
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| MNZ | though this is the more fun way lol learning a nice bit about DSP along the way | 02:15 |
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| pupnik | yeah | 02:16 |
| pupnik | if you can get the dsp to output a sine wave, i got some fun code to run on it | 02:16 |
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| satmd | :) | 02:16 |
| MNZ | pupnik, fun code? | 02:17 |
| pupnik | yeah yamaha fmopl | 02:17 |
| pupnik | softsynth | 02:17 |
| pupnik | for scummvm, dosbox | 02:18 |
| pupnik | could get some nice smooth audio that way | 02:19 |
| MNZ | nope that's not really to be done in hardware | 02:19 |
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| v2px | wow. i just found out about the qt creator | 02:24 |
| v2px | looks nice and its not all messed up like the sdk | 02:25 |
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| TiagoTiago | now it will show as two removable drives, both without any media inside | 02:31 |
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| TiagoTiago | is it still flashable? | 02:36 |
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| TiagoTiago | also, can i flash without touching MyDocs and still get it working again? | 02:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | MNZ: :) | 02:41 |
| TiagoTiago | ? | 02:41 |
| lolloo | hello | 02:41 |
| lolloo | i installed power-kernel to install titan kernel | 02:41 |
| MNZ | SpeedEvil, :-? | 02:42 |
| lolloo | and i restared the fone | 02:42 |
| lolloo | but when i type uname -r | 02:42 |
| lolloo | it seemed kernel didnt change | 02:42 |
| lolloo | i want to overclock my n900 | 02:42 |
| MNZ | ~overclocking | 02:42 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 02:42 |
| lolloo | any one can help me please | 02:43 |
| lolloo | well titan kernel is better for cpu | 02:43 |
| lolloo | it uses less power than the default ones | 02:43 |
| lolloo | but i cant seem to load the kernel | 02:43 |
| lolloo | any tips please | 02:44 |
| Dhraakellian | hrm | 02:44 |
| TiagoTiago | lolloo: i qould recomend against, i might have lost everything i had stored because of overclocking (i haven't managed to get it to work again so far) | 02:44 |
| lolloo | yes ur right | 02:44 |
| lolloo | but maybe for future reference please | 02:45 |
| Dhraakellian | so I (temporarily) enabled -testing and -devel, but apt-get install mut complains about slang1a-ut8 (> 1.4.9dbs-4) not being available | 02:45 |
| lolloo | how can load titan kernel | 02:45 |
| lolloo | aha | 02:45 |
| Dhraakellian | step one: back up everything? | 02:45 |
| lolloo | yes please | 02:45 |
| lolloo | i did no worries | 02:45 |
| TiagoTiago | everything was just fine untill i decifded to try the low voltage high clock stuff everyone was talking about, peer pressure is a bitch :( | 02:46 |
| lolloo | yes | 02:46 |
| lolloo | i have nitdroid installed | 02:46 |
| lolloo | with multiboot | 02:46 |
| lolloo | maybe thats the problem | 02:47 |
| TiagoTiago | i hope a bunch of people don't go jump off a bridge <.< | 02:47 |
| MNZ | lolloo, what he's trying to say is, don't overclock or your phone will die a premature death | 02:47 |
| lolloo | for kernel not booting | 02:47 |
| lolloo | hhhhh | 02:47 |
| lolloo | ok thanks guys | 02:47 |
| TiagoTiago | i dunno how to help with getting Titan kernel working, with me it was a breeze, did it all with HAM and never got any errors | 02:48 |
| lolloo | wow | 02:48 |
| lolloo | whats ham | 02:48 |
| TiagoTiago | Hildon Applications Manager | 02:48 |
| lolloo | wow | 02:48 |
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| TiagoTiago | the thingy you use to install progs from repos | 02:49 |
| lolloo | mmm | 02:49 |
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| lolloo | app amanger? | 02:49 |
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| TiagoTiago | that one that loads when you click the green install arrow in webpages | 02:50 |
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| TiagoTiago | that is probably the one | 02:50 |
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| lolloo | mmm | 02:50 |
| lolloo | do u know multiboot program | 02:51 |
| TiagoTiago | not in person | 02:51 |
| lolloo | hhhh | 02:51 |
| lolloo | can i add Titan kernel in the list | 02:51 |
| lolloo | in the boot menu | 02:51 |
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| TiagoTiago | i imagine you would need to create a copy of the vanilla system, boot in it, and install the kernel from there, but others here might have a better approach | 02:52 |
| Dhraakellian | hmm... I'm told that GMail's web interface now has an option to mark part of a thread as unread | 02:52 |
| Dhraakellian | hrm.... | 02:52 |
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| Dhraakellian | would still like nested threading though | 02:52 |
| MNZ | SpeedEvil, ?? | 02:53 |
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| lolloo | i did get-ap | 02:54 |
| lolloo | for kernel power user | 02:54 |
| lolloo | but still titan kernel is not loaded | 02:55 |
| lolloo | even if i reboot | 02:55 |
| lolloo | ok nvm | 02:55 |
| lolloo | its not a big deal | 02:55 |
| lolloo | but u know us geeka | 02:55 |
| lolloo | geeks | 02:55 |
| TiagoTiago | did you find it on HAM ? | 02:55 |
| lolloo | srry mate no i didnt | 02:55 |
| lolloo | where is it | 02:55 |
| TiagoTiago | just go to All and start typing "Titan" | 02:56 |
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| TiagoTiago | it might not be on regular Extra, you might need to enable testign and dev | 02:56 |
| lolloo | ok | 02:56 |
| lolloo | ahaaa | 02:57 |
| lolloo | how would i do that please | 02:57 |
| lolloo | if u dont mind | 02:57 |
| lolloo | how can i enable it awesome dude | 02:59 |
| TiagoTiago | sec | 02:59 |
| lolloo | tyt mate | 02:59 |
| TiagoTiago | ~respoitories | 03:00 |
| TiagoTiago | ~respositories | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | MNZ: I was responding to yourr 'learning about DSP' comment. | 03:00 |
| TiagoTiago | ~repositories | 03:00 |
| infobot | repositories are frequently old. | 03:00 |
| TiagoTiago | crap | 03:01 |
| lolloo | shall i type it in terminal | 03:01 |
| GAN900 | Rice cookers work better when you put water in WITH the rice. | 03:02 |
| MNZ | SpeedEvil, heh didn't correlate, the latency was too high :P | 03:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm. I wonder if you could make rice crispies in a popcorn cannon. | 03:02 |
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| lolloo | rice comes with meat | 03:03 |
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| TiagoTiago | does anyone got a link handy for lolloo about enabling test and dev repos? | 03:04 |
| lolloo | oh man thank you so much dont worry brother | 03:05 |
| TiagoTiago | if i hadn't trashed my system i would be able to just chec what the options are called | 03:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | what parameters do i feed the flasher to reflash everything but MyDocs? | 03:13 |
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| TiagoTiago | lolloo: check the menu in HAM, see if you can find the options | 03:13 |
| TiagoTiago | anyone? | 03:15 |
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| TiagoTiago | flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R will leav MyDocs intact but rewrite everything else? | 03:16 |
| TiagoTiago | Where is everyone? o.o | 03:18 |
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| MNZ | TiagoTiago, yes, that should leave MyDocs intact. MyDocs is on the eMMC, only the eMMC image would overwrite it | 03:19 |
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| TiagoTiago | ok | 03:20 |
| MNZ | though that image is pretty old | 03:20 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, no,i got a newer image, i jsut copy pasted the example fromt he wiki, i wrote the right one in the command line | 03:20 |
| MNZ | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 03:20 |
| MNZ | ah yes | 03:20 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, that was fast | 03:20 |
| TiagoTiago | NOkia ROM device detected | 03:21 |
| TiagoTiago | erm, problem installing drivers, the device might not work correctly :( | 03:21 |
| MNZ | you are on windoze? | 03:21 |
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| TiagoTiago | WinXP SP3 | 03:21 |
| MNZ | Ah, I haven't yet witnessed a flashing ceremony on windoze | 03:22 |
| * MNZ brings popcorn | 03:22 | |
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| pupnik | could be worse | 03:29 |
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| TiagoTiago | does that command also rewrites the /opt partition? | 03:33 |
| TiagoTiago | MNZ ? | 03:34 |
| pigeon | does the window manger on the n900 caches the "view" application on disk or in ram? | 03:34 |
| MNZ | TiagoTiago, no, opt is inside MyDocs actually | 03:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can write /opt but leave MyDocs intact? | 03:35 |
| TiagoTiago | it's the same flashdrive, but not the same partition, right? | 03:35 |
| MNZ | sorry not inside MyDocs | 03:35 |
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| MNZ | I meant on the eMMC | 03:35 |
| MNZ | in /home | 03:35 |
| TiagoTiago | ok | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | pigeon: The task switcher images are live | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | pigeon: composited | 03:36 |
| pigeon | SpeedEvil: how about like when you lauch an app? | 03:36 |
| TiagoTiago | do you know how i can recreate the /opt partition with it's contents but leagve MyDocs intact? | 03:36 |
| pigeon | I noticed it sometimes first show the screen of the app, but it's an older one of it, if you know what i mean | 03:36 |
| TiagoTiago | perhaps some apps update their windows slower when they aren't focused? | 03:37 |
| pigeon | like i launch the e-mail client, it does that animated popup thing, but the app still loading, and it is showing a screen that is like at its last state or something like that. | 03:37 |
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| MNZ | lcuk, I just got liqbase's kinetic scrolling into gtk | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | pigeon: That's stored somewhere - I'm unsure where though | 03:38 |
| pigeon | and usually very old. | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry | 03:38 |
| pigeon | hmm | 03:39 |
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| TiagoTiago | i gotta go eat, be back in a bit | 03:41 |
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| TiagoTiago | back | 03:53 |
| TiagoTiago | does anyone know how i can recreate the /opt partition (with it's contents) without loosing the contents of MyDocs? | 03:54 |
| MNZ | copy MyDocs out, flash eMMC, copying MyDocs in | 03:54 |
| MNZ | and I forgot to mention before you flash rootfs.... did you take a backup from the backup manager? | 03:55 |
| TiagoTiago | can't, i tried via WIFI but the device rebooted before even reaching half, and it doesn't work via USB, it shows as two removable drives without media inside | 03:55 |
| TiagoTiago | /opt is fucked up, no images, no fonts, and no sounds are loading | 03:56 |
| TiagoTiago | the device is pretty much unusable | 03:56 |
| MNZ | you have got to flash eMMC then... | 03:56 |
| MNZ | well, try moving MyDocs part by part? | 03:56 |
| TiagoTiago | there gotta be a way to only write to the /opt partition | 03:56 |
| ali1234 | there's always a way | 03:57 |
| MNZ | /opt is not a partition | 03:57 |
| TiagoTiago | i thought it wasx a partition in the eMMC, together with MyDocs and i think the swap | 03:57 |
| TiagoTiago | i mean, those other two are the other partitions there | 03:58 |
| MNZ | only way I can think of is: take backup from backup manager, select 'Application list', back up. Download eMMC image, unpack image, copy only stuff from /home/opt in image to /home/opt on device, recover backup to reinstall all your apps | 03:58 |
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| TiagoTiago | how if no icons nor the text under them will show? | 03:58 |
| MNZ | oh... | 03:59 |
| MNZ | run from ssh | 03:59 |
| MNZ | osso-backup | 03:59 |
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| TiagoTiago | does it got a text interface or will it load the GUI in the device? | 03:59 |
| MNZ | Nokia-N900:~# /usr/bin/maemo-invoker /usr/bin/osso-backup.launch | 03:59 |
| MNZ | it will load gui... you can manage with no icons/text I think | 04:00 |
| MNZ | "New Backup" is the first button on the left | 04:00 |
| MNZ | then "Proceed" on the right in the dialog that comes up | 04:00 |
| TiagoTiago | what about things like the files inside MyDocs, text files, photos etc? | 04:00 |
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| ali1234 | if you have networking, why don't you just copy out the whole eMMC, repair it on another machine, then put it back? | 04:01 |
| MNZ | no those are not backed up, this just gets your calendar/contacts/installed apps/etc | 04:01 |
| MNZ | thing is, you can move in /opt stuff from an unpacked eMMC image | 04:01 |
| TiagoTiago | i tried downloading mydocs with FTP via wifi but the device rebooted before it even got to half | 04:01 |
| ali1234 | yeah... don't use ftp | 04:02 |
| TiagoTiago | i haven't managed to make my Windows desktop see fodlers in my N900 nor the other way around | 04:02 |
| ali1234 | oh... windows | 04:03 |
| TiagoTiago | yeah :/ | 04:03 |
| ali1234 | well fwiw this is what i would do | 04:04 |
| MNZ | actually... that extracting opt from the eMMC image thing.... will need a linux machine AFAIT | 04:04 |
| TiagoTiago | it will loose all the metadata if extracted under Windows, no? | 04:04 |
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| MNZ | or wait | 04:05 |
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| MNZ | no, it's vfat. you just need to find a tool to mount the image | 04:05 |
| MNZ | I know there are tools around for that | 04:05 |
| ali1234 | the /opt part is not | 04:05 |
| ali1234 | the part you actually need | 04:06 |
| MNZ | oh sorry yeah | 04:06 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 04:06 |
| MNZ | hmmm | 04:06 |
| MNZ | you don't really need to extract it on windows | 04:06 |
| MNZ | if it's not that big you can just move it over to the device | 04:07 |
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| TiagoTiago | is thre a way i can repair the /opt entry in the file system so it points to where it used to? | 04:07 |
| ali1234 | it's just a symlink | 04:07 |
| ali1234 | what exactly have you done, i missed the start of this | 04:07 |
| MNZ | TiagoTiago, run this on ssh: mount | grep opt | 04:07 |
| TiagoTiago | i dunno, my ugess is overclocking fucked up the /opt partition, or the part in rootfs that points to it | 04:08 |
| ali1234 | hah, no | 04:08 |
| TiagoTiago | booting up | 04:08 |
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| * Dhraakellian tries to remember who recommended mutt to him | 04:10 | |
| TiagoTiago | ? | 04:10 |
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| Dhraakellian | was going to ask how he got it installed | 04:10 |
| Dhraakellian | ...although asking in general would probably be just as good, if not better | 04:11 |
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| Dhraakellian | since I'm getting an error about a missing dependency when I try to install with apt | 04:11 |
| TiagoTiago | http://pastebin.com/K4zEpPhq | 04:11 |
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| ali1234 | TiagoTiago: so what's actually wrong with opt? | 04:12 |
| TiagoTiago | the one that was there isn't there anymore, it only got that pymaemo folder instead of everything | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | pastebin the full output of mount | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | please | 04:13 |
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| TiagoTiago | http://pastebin.com/igMWCRdU | 04:14 |
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| ali1234 | well if you lost all the stuff in opt, reflashing wont help anyway | 04:16 |
| ali1234 | you'd need to reinstall all your packages | 04:16 |
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| user____ | hey | 04:16 |
| user____ | why arent there any connections when i select gsm | 04:16 |
| TiagoTiago | no, even the system stuff, like fonts and sounds is missing | 04:16 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 04:16 |
| user____ | using tmo | 04:17 |
| ali1234 | TiagoTiago: at this point your best option is to backup everything you can recover and reflash the whole lot | 04:18 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 04:18 |
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| ali1234 | you could try cutting the mmcblk0p2 partition from the eMMC flash images, uploading it, mounting loopback, and then copying the files | 04:19 |
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| johnx | allo all | 04:22 |
| TiagoTiago | gonna try downloading via FTP again | 04:22 |
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| johnx | TiagoTiago, the first thing you should do is backup data your care about in case trying to fix it makes it worse | 04:23 |
| TiagoTiago | that is a good advice | 04:24 |
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| user____ | does your connection work when you select gsm only? | 04:25 |
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| johnx | user____, yes | 04:28 |
| user____ | oh why? | 04:33 |
| johnx | are you asking me why it works? | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Some companies do not have GSM service. | 04:34 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, 3 hours ago you started backing up your data | 04:35 |
| lcuk | hope its going ok | 04:35 |
| mortini | lcuk: etching binary in stone takes *time* | 04:36 |
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| lcuk | hey johnx | 04:36 |
| johnx | hey lcuk. you should get some sleep :P | 04:36 |
| user____ | cause when i was in europe it worked fine | 04:37 |
| lcuk | been there tried that got woken up again by jake | 04:37 |
| lcuk | havin a smoke and laying down again tho :) | 04:37 |
| johnx | user____, are you on t-mobile US? | 04:37 |
| lcuk | and TiagoTiago once you have backed up everything, flashing just the rootfs image gives best chance of recreating rootfs + opt without touching your data. but that does not mean it will work. | 04:38 |
| * lcuk sleeps | 04:39 | |
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| johnx | 'night lcuk :) | 04:39 |
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| TiagoTiago | it failed, i'll try again | 04:40 |
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| TiagoTiago | 1003 files left right now :/ | 04:47 |
| johnx | how are you trying to back up? | 04:49 |
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| TiagoTiago | via ftp | 04:55 |
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| TiagoTiago | secure ftp that is | 04:55 |
| johnx | uhm, can you just plug the N900 into a computer and backup in usb mass storage mode? | 04:56 |
| TiagoTiago | it showa as two removable drives with no media inside | 04:56 |
| TiagoTiago | shows* | 04:56 |
| TiagoTiago | 941 files left right now..... | 04:57 |
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| zeltak | hi..anyone knows if there is a key shortcut to close apps (ala alt-f4)? | 05:08 |
| SpeedEvil | the power key | 05:09 |
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| zeltak | really | 05:09 |
| SpeedEvil | More sanely - I don't think tehre si a way to do that | 05:10 |
| zeltak | ahh i see then press end current task | 05:10 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - right - I thought you meant all apps | 05:11 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - there is an end one app | 05:11 |
| johnx | you can also press ctrl-backspace to get to the window switching view | 05:11 |
| zeltak | thx johnx yeah i use that but sometimes i crave a keyboard shortcut to quikly kill an app :) | 05:11 |
| zeltak | thx SpeedEvil ..btw any one use vice (c64 emulator) here? | 05:12 |
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| ShadowJK | I think I've managed to wear out a usb flash drive | 05:13 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, cool. does it report its size as smaller than it used to? | 05:14 |
| ShadowJK | no it's reading back OK, but accepts no writes when jbd/ext3 tries to replay journal | 05:15 |
| johnx | fun times. will it repartition/reformat? | 05:15 |
| lolloo | how do i write in red here | 05:15 |
| ShadowJK | johnx: not sure yet :) | 05:16 |
| johnx | lolloo, just put the word lolloo in your text | 05:16 |
| lolloo | omg | 05:16 |
| ShadowJK | I'm imaging it now to hd | 05:16 |
| lolloo | ya thats it | 05:16 |
| ShadowJK | I just want to get conf files off of it | 05:16 |
| ShadowJK | it was rootfs for my sheevapllug | 05:16 |
| johnx | bummer | 05:16 |
| johnx | how's the sheeva treating you overall? | 05:17 |
| ShadowJK | and now my LAN/intarwebs is kinda fucked :) | 05:17 |
| ShadowJK | it's nice | 05:17 |
| johnx | I had a guruplug on pre-order, but that was right when everyone was having the overheating issues with them | 05:18 |
| ShadowJK | though it has usb quirks, and I thought I was troubleshooting something like that at first when the flash disk read back ok in my pc | 05:18 |
| ShadowJK | well the case on my plain sheeva does get to 45-50C or so | 05:18 |
| johnx | ... so I canceled and got a QNAP TS-119 | 05:18 |
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| ShadowJK | cool; the image file mounted ok with loop | 05:20 |
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| ShadowJK | alas my 20 minutes of spare time for today are at an end :( | 05:20 |
| johnx | wow. that's a harsh schedule | 05:20 |
| ShadowJK | ah hell, I'll just violate some speed limits... | 05:20 |
| johnx | that's what they exist for :> | 05:21 |
| TiagoTiago | red like this? | 05:21 |
| lolloo | how can i type in red i know it's nothing related | 05:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | %C foreground color, background color | 05:23 |
| ShadowJK | this ocz flash drive has the nicest failure mode so far of all flash media I've had fail | 05:23 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, yeah. that's why I'm curious how it failed | 05:23 |
| johnx | most of mine have died of some other cause long before the actual flash wears out | 05:23 |
| TiagoTiago | depending on your client, if you start writing it shows the colors avaiable | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | a transcend sd card just started returning /dev/random for constantly moving random blocks (well they moved after writing) | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | an a-data card started giving errors on read, and locking up | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | read of a specific sector, mind | 05:24 |
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| luke-jr | grr | 05:28 |
| luke-jr | Mobile HotSpot doesn't work | 05:28 |
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| tripzero | lcuk, libmeegotouch on maemo is still b0rked | 05:30 |
| tripzero | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/meegobd_0.0.2-0ubuntu2/ | 05:30 |
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| luke-jr | sigh | 05:34 |
| TiagoTiago | seems it hit a big file, 913 files left for several minutes now..... | 05:34 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, did you reboot after installing it? | 05:35 |
| ShadowJK | it installs custom kernel, iirc | 05:35 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: no, it doesn't. | 05:38 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: I have my own custom kernel | 05:38 |
| luke-jr | which is unaffected | 05:39 |
| luke-jr | I can get it to start and stuff | 05:40 |
| luke-jr | but the minute my MBP tries to use it, the N900 reboots | 05:40 |
| luke-jr | actually, Skype will even connect, and tracepath will trace | 05:40 |
| luke-jr | maybe I should try reducing MBP MTU | 05:40 |
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| luke-jr | Pre-Depends: kernel-feature-netfilter | 05:44 |
| luke-jr | that's the closest thing in mobilehotspot's pkg | 05:44 |
| luke-jr | and my custom kernel DOES have netfilter… | 05:44 |
| ali1234 | have you checked mtd2 for the reboot reason? | 05:44 |
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| luke-jr | ali1234: mtd2 is incomprehensible IMO | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | lots of panics, no dates/times | 05:51 |
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| TiagoTiago | hwo big is the easydeb image file again? | 06:13 |
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| lolloo | hi | 06:24 |
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| luke-jr | aha | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | this kernel-maemo thing works | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | but wtf is it | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | and why doesn't fremantle? | 06:39 |
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| lolloo | yes where id the directory | 06:39 |
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| lolloo | hey guys | 06:49 |
| lolloo | what is the command to look into a directory | 06:50 |
| lolloo | please | 06:50 |
| mortini | ls? | 06:51 |
| mortini | er, just ls | 06:51 |
| TiagoTiago | 242 files left, yay! | 06:53 |
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| mortini | 241 flies left! | 06:56 |
| lolloo | hello | 06:56 |
| lolloo | how can i check whats inside a directory | 06:56 |
| lolloo | please | 06:56 |
| lolloo | ls | 06:56 |
| lolloo | mmm | 06:56 |
| mortini | use the ls command to 'list' the contents | 06:57 |
| lolloo | thxx | 06:57 |
| lolloo | how can i get multiboot-kernel-power into .nitdroid directory? | 06:58 |
| lolloo | its not there | 06:59 |
| lolloo | how can i put it there? | 06:59 |
| TiagoTiago | colorrscolorrs!! | 07:01 |
| lolloo | how please? | 07:02 |
| TiagoTiago | erm, seems my provider might have decided to fuck up automated log ins again Dx | 07:03 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, crap,t hey want us to hire a content provider, i thought we already had one...... | 07:04 |
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| TiagoTiago | interesting, it seems IRC connections can slip by | 07:05 |
| lolloo | how can i install multiboot-kernel-power_0.3_armel.deb | 07:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | oh, it seems it was jsut a hicup | 07:07 |
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| TiagoTiago | oh oh 0.0 | 07:31 |
| TiagoTiago | seems it didn't count all the files in the beggining, it jumped from 169 files left to 915 files left :( | 07:31 |
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| luke-jr | so anyhow… where's the source for kernel-maemo? -.- | 07:44 |
| luke-jr | or I suppose it'd be better to try mainline first | 07:45 |
| illmortal | hey guys... I'd like to dual boot my OQO micro computer with Windows 7 and possible Maemo, I'd use Maemo specifically for playing Music and surfing the internet, nothing else. Can Maemo be installed as a small OS for a pc/ | 07:46 |
| illmortal | ? | 07:46 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 07:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Maemo has closed source componenets, and cannot be booted on x86 | 07:46 |
| SpeedEvil | the opensoruce components of course can - see meego | 07:47 |
| illmortal | that's unfortunate. thank you, speedevil.. and thanks again for the recommendation! | 07:47 |
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| zr0 | is UMA likely to be added to the n900? | 07:49 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 07:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The modem bit is basically not being developed much further. | 07:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Apps like that need to reach deep into the modem. | 07:50 |
| TiagoTiago | talking about Maemo on the PC, do you know where i can get a Windows port of microB? | 07:51 |
| zr0 | so the gsm stack is all closed source? | 07:51 |
| luke-jr | UMA? | 07:52 |
| zr0 | unlicensed mobile access | 07:52 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: yes | 07:52 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Think GSM-over-wifi tunneling | 07:52 |
| zr0 | wow.. that's fucking lame | 07:52 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: Opening the source of the modem would actually be illegal in some countries. | 07:52 |
| zr0 | mmm, more voip via tunneling to tmobile with gsm handover | 07:53 |
| TiagoTiago | yesterday i saw this page about homemade cell phones, i didn't read much 'cause i had to leave, and then i forgot about it, perhaps they know the secrets | 07:53 |
| cehteh | security by obscurity by law :P | 07:53 |
| zr0 | SpeedEvil: that doesn't make any sense.. | 07:53 |
| SpeedEvil | For example in the UK, once someone does something bad with it - and you don't fix it - you're liable for selling hacking tools. | 07:53 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: no - nothing like that. | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: actually, I think the law requires it to be unmodifiable, not closed | 07:53 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: It is specifically tunneling the GSM protocol over wifi. | 07:53 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Fair point. | 07:53 |
| luke-jr | which is accomplished via DRM on N900 | 07:54 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: The wifi point (or whatever other non-GSM network) acts like a tunnel to a virtual GSM base-station. | 07:54 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: The GSM handover happens between this basestation, and the normal ones seamlessly. | 07:54 |
| zr0 | seems like it would be pretty easy to implement then | 07:55 |
| SpeedEvil | IT's not. | 07:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | It requires the software stack to be able to hand off calls to the modem, and the reverse. | 07:55 |
| SpeedEvil | This requires deep hooks into the modem. | 07:55 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: the N900 software stack can't control calls? | 07:56 |
| SpeedEvil | It's at a lower level than that. | 07:56 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: a UMA connection is basically another GSM tower. But one that comes through the wifi interface. | 07:57 |
| zr0 | basically, you need to modify the gsm modem's driver | 07:57 |
| luke-jr | zr0: the driver is 100% open | 07:57 |
| luke-jr | zr0: just not the modem firmware | 07:57 |
| SpeedEvil | You need to modify the GSM modem too. | 07:57 |
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| zr0 | ... | 07:57 |
| zr0 | are you guys sure about that? | 07:57 |
| SpeedEvil | This functionality has to be written into the modem - most don't support it. | 07:57 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 07:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is no way to query the SIM in a platform independant way to auth the wifi connection, for one thing. | 07:58 |
| zr0 | but during the handovers aren't you essentially resetting the modem? | 07:58 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 07:58 |
| zr0 | so the modem still thinks it's connected? | 07:59 |
| SpeedEvil | A) you detect a wifi suitable for UMA | 07:59 |
| TiagoTiago | it's like it's swtiching from one tower to the next, but the next tower isn't realy a tower, like that? | 08:00 |
| SpeedEvil | B) You bring up this connection, check it's stable - over wifi | 08:00 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: yep | 08:00 |
| SpeedEvil | C) you tell the modem to disconnect from the current tower, and tell it it's a handover | 08:00 |
| luke-jr | zr0: I don't think the CPU side even knows when a handover happens | 08:00 |
| zr0 | luke-jr: then that's a retarded implementation | 08:00 |
| SpeedEvil | D) you talk to the fake GSM tower over wifi | 08:00 |
| SpeedEvil | That's how UMA works. | 08:01 |
| SpeedEvil | How else could it work? | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | zr0: N900's impl is basically a USB modem plugged into a laptop | 08:01 |
| SpeedEvil | The alternatives are basically worse. | 08:01 |
| TiagoTiago | I think Nokia guy here the other day said the modem int he N900 is capable of checking signals of many antennas at the same time, but that isn't avaiable thru the open API | 08:01 |
| zr0 | gsm modem is a completely seperate device from a wifi interface | 08:01 |
| TiagoTiago | a Nokia guy* | 08:01 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - if it's all done in the modem, the modem needs to host the wifi interface | 08:02 |
| SpeedEvil | And all of the wifi stack | 08:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Which brings a whole new level of pain | 08:02 |
| TiagoTiago | couldn't the modem spill both the input and the output back into the higher levels to be redirected? | 08:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It could. | 08:02 |
| zr0 | right | 08:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It doesn't. | 08:02 |
| zr0 | exaclty | 08:02 |
| zr0 | they probably do it that way to save power | 08:03 |
| SpeedEvil | But the point is that fromthe point of view of the network - this is the only sane way to do this. | 08:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's the implementation on the mobile-side that's a bit messy. | 08:03 |
| zr0 | from the networks point of view it makes sense | 08:03 |
| zr0 | right | 08:03 |
| TiagoTiago | it's liuke a gemtocell without the cell? | 08:03 |
| TiagoTiago | femtocell* | 08:03 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 08:03 |
| TiagoTiago | like* | 08:03 |
| SpeedEvil | exactly | 08:04 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: so basically the modem can do it, it's just that the interface is documented and open? | 08:05 |
| zr0 | s/is/is not | 08:05 |
| SpeedEvil | On the mobile side it's icky - as you have to break the layering - as the modem can't be a black box - it needs hooks. And the whole stack needs reengineering | 08:05 |
| TiagoTiago | my understanding is the hardware is capable, but the open software has no way to tell the hardware to do it | 08:05 |
| SpeedEvil | the modem in principle could be reprogrammed to do it by nokia. | 08:05 |
| SpeedEvil | The modem as currently programmed - either can't do it - or there are no docs. | 08:06 |
| zr0 | most likely no docs | 08:06 |
| zr0 | well, who knows | 08:06 |
| TiagoTiago | is it not permanently programmed, like a true read only memory (not the type that can be reflashed) ? | 08:06 |
| zr0 | might have an eeprom | 08:07 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: no - it's got - IIRC - 16M of flash | 08:07 |
| zr0 | there you go | 08:07 |
| zr0 | what's the chip? | 08:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Or it may be 2M - I forget - I diddn't read that closely. | 08:07 |
| TiagoTiago | so it might be possible to reverse engineer the stuff and install an open source modem firmware? | 08:07 |
| zr0 | sure | 08:07 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic | 08:07 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle yes - in practice it's signed. | 08:08 |
| TiagoTiago | someone would have to also crack the signature system | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | LOL | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | public key encryption is uncrackable | 08:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Uncrackable is probably strong. | 08:08 |
| zr0 | not if you have enough time | 08:08 |
| raster | TiagoTiago: even if u crack it.. u'd need the open modem impl that can drive the modem hw they have | 08:08 |
| TiagoTiago | even if they put a bunch of PS3 running custom firmware and a bunch of people running crack@home? | 08:08 |
| raster | the modem is another cpu - another soc with another set of hw on it | 08:09 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - social engineering may get you the key. | 08:09 |
| SpeedEvil | And a full 3G stack is horribly complex. | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | meh, who needs 3G | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | just run OpenBTS | 08:09 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | :p | 08:09 |
| raster | u're effectively "porting" an os with all dirvers, etc. to it THEN implwmenting a gsm etc. stack and an ipc layer that lets u talk to the modem os from the ap side | 08:09 |
| raster | not a trivial task | 08:09 |
| raster | considering that fiurst - such stacks and os's on the mdoem side .. as open soruce.. basically dont exist | 08:10 |
| zr0 | i don't understand why you wouldn't implement your stack with uma in mind.. i mean wouldn't tmobile rather you use a wifi hotspot than one of their cell towers? | 08:10 |
| TiagoTiago | haven't people already achieved similar feats with running Linux on all sorts of things? | 08:10 |
| raster | and no specs ont he hw on the modem "computer" are open :) | 08:10 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: Because it's complex. | 08:10 |
| raster | so u'd reverse engineer it :) | 08:10 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: and complexity adds cost and delay. | 08:10 |
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| luke-jr | zr0: T-Mobile didn't make it | 08:11 |
| zr0 | they do this two chip design to save power right? | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | no | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | to obey the "don't let anyone change it" laws | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | two chips will always use more power than 1 | 08:11 |
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| zr0 | not necessarily | 08:12 |
| raster | zr0: they do it so u CAN have a "full os" run separately from a blackboxed modem that handles dealing with vioice, gsm data, blah blah blah | 08:12 |
| raster | its how pretty much most hw works these days | 08:12 |
| TiagoTiago | if each can be optmized to do somthing differently, both will be optmized | 08:12 |
| raster | your scsi raid controller has a cpu on it | 08:12 |
| raster | (most likely) | 08:12 |
| raster | wiht its own os | 08:12 |
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| raster | its on a card | 08:12 |
| raster | and u talk to it via a memory mapped interface over pci | 08:12 |
| raster | same with wifi | 08:12 |
| * Stskeeps plays with his meego/n900 able to make calls | 08:12 | |
| raster | same with gpu's | 08:12 |
| raster | same with just about everything these days | 08:13 |
| raster | its only a question of how high-level and complex that set of software is that runs on the device's "cpu" | 08:13 |
| zr0 | those types of devices don't run a full-blown os though, right? | 08:13 |
| raster | it varies | 08:13 |
| raster | anything from hyper-simple blobs of firmware u could sanelyu re-verse-engineer withotu trouble | 08:13 |
| raster | to actual rtos's | 08:14 |
| raster | and processes | 08:14 |
| zr0 | hmmm | 08:14 |
| raster | and ipc layers and more | 08:14 |
| zr0 | and that's what you're saying runs on these gsm modem chips | 08:14 |
| raster | modems (gsm etc.) tend to be on the higher end of the complexity level | 08:14 |
| SpeedEvil | In the lower end phones, it's 'all' on one chip. | 08:14 |
| raster | yup | 08:14 |
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| zr0 | SpeedEvil: sure | 08:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Which can make UMA a bit less of a pain | 08:14 |
| raster | the "modem os" has the ability to slide in other processes | 08:14 |
| SpeedEvil | If it has wifi even | 08:14 |
| raster | and code | 08:14 |
| zr0 | the modem os is just a tiny rtos | 08:15 |
| zr0 | i'm guessing | 08:15 |
| raster | but nbow u pay a price | 08:15 |
| raster | 1. the modem os and infr ais not open | 08:15 |
| zr0 | just so you can have a "thread" concept.. vxworks, etc | 08:15 |
| raster | 2. its almost always locked down behind a lot of layers of nda , secrecy and proprietariness | 08:15 |
| luke-jr | zr0: even the 100% open software Freerunner had a closed modem | 08:15 |
| raster | 3. u have to share your cpu with a greeedy modem os | 08:15 |
| raster | if it wants the pcu - it'll steel it | 08:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Ironically. | 08:15 |
| raster | your ui be damned | 08:15 |
| SpeedEvil | The freerunner probably could do UMA | 08:16 |
| SpeedEvil | In that you've probably got the best chance of implementing it there. | 08:16 |
| TiagoTiago | without replacing closed firmwares, does the N900 allows for any type of arbitrary radio protocol to be implemented in any of the frequencies of it's transceivers/trasmitter-receiver pairs? | 08:16 |
| raster | the modem was a ti modem | 08:16 |
| raster | its an arm core on therer | 08:16 |
| SpeedEvil | The chipset is the reference platform for the open-source GSM erfforts. | 08:16 |
| SpeedEvil | The datasheets leaked. | 08:16 |
| raster | with a proprietary os u have to license from ti | 08:16 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: no | 08:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Essentially all radios in stuff today is special purpose. | 08:16 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: A large fraction of the processing is done by hardware. | 08:17 |
| raster | the main cpu (samsung 2442) was a separate chip/soc | 08:17 |
| raster | thats what drove the linxu os, ui, etc. etc. | 08:17 |
| TiagoTiago | so none of the radios allow more raw access? | 08:17 |
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| raster | no | 08:17 |
| raster | they all hide behind some itnerface | 08:17 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: For example - a crystal - cut right - can do a billion floating point operations a second on a billionth of a watt. | 08:17 |
| johnx | anyone remember the yopy? I really wanted one of those things ... | 08:17 |
| TiagoTiago | that's disapointing :( | 08:17 |
| raster | be it at commandset over serial, usb | 08:17 |
| raster | or maybe some shared memory window stuff with binary protocols | 08:17 |
| raster | etc. | 08:17 |
| raster | its still all isolaed | 08:17 |
| raster | unless its a "dumbphone" | 08:18 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Doing that in a 'SDR' digitally would take perhaps 5-10W | 08:18 |
| raster | and then it runs all on hte modem (single chip solkn) and is closed up | 08:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Optimistically. | 08:18 |
| zr0 | i wonder if this ti modem has a jtag interface | 08:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The modem in the n900 is not TI | 08:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - irt is , but it's a nokia/TI codesign. The TI modem referred to above was the Calypso. | 08:19 |
| SpeedEvil | This has no leaked docs. | 08:19 |
| SpeedEvil | So is about 8 orders of magnitude harder to crack. | 08:19 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: calypso was a POS | 08:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 08:19 |
| raster | buggy as all crap | 08:20 |
| SpeedEvil | But POS + docs | 08:20 |
| raster | open crap is still crap | 08:20 |
| raster | :) | 08:20 |
| SpeedEvil | how buggy? | 08:20 |
| SpeedEvil | You mean the hw bugs? | 08:20 |
| TiagoTiago | Those plugs under the battery, has anyone figured out somthing fun that can be done with them? | 08:20 |
| raster | its a featurephone modem | 08:20 |
| raster | it does at commands | 08:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Or the firmware ones. | 08:20 |
| raster | but it was only exposes in a very basic way | 08:20 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: somewhat - yes - but not really | 08:20 |
| raster | just enough to use it in limited cases from a pc | 08:20 |
| raster | eg as a "gsm dialup modem" | 08:20 |
| TiagoTiago | how so? | 08:21 |
| raster | if u wanted to handle async notifications of things like incoming sms while u were doing other things | 08:21 |
| zr0 | i guess this gsm firmware/hardware design is nokia's secret sauce | 08:21 |
| raster | it'd nicely just break messages in the middle | 08:21 |
| raster | forget it was still sending it to you | 08:21 |
| raster | and send the "u have sms" message in thge middle | 08:21 |
| raster | other nasties | 08:21 |
| raster | like it'd just lose messages while waking up ro sleeping | 08:21 |
| raster | (being sent to the states) | 08:21 |
| raster | and no way to ever know they were lost | 08:22 |
| raster | or get them back | 08:22 |
| zr0 | wow | 08:22 |
| raster | it was all really the modem os bugs | 08:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Nasty. | 08:22 |
| raster | it wasnt intended to be a "modem for another smartphone os to use" | 08:22 |
| zr0 | which phone was this? | 08:22 |
| raster | it was designed as a dumb featurephone chip+os | 08:22 |
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| raster | and so these thnigs didnt work right as they wree not tested | 08:22 |
| zr0 | sure | 08:23 |
| raster | as it was not considered a real life use of the chip | 08:23 |
| TiagoTiago | Perhaps Nokia could release an somewhat open version of the firmwares, kinda generic, without their secrets, with a license that would allow them to use changes the community makes in their closed firmwares, and also a condition that the open firmware couldn't ship nor be offered by any competitor, wouldn't it be beneficial for Nokia and the community? | 08:23 |
| raster | it was intended to function only so far as u may use your featurephone as a dialup modem | 08:23 |
| raster | and similar simple things | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | why would you want to modify the ISI modem again? it's quite versatile | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:23 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago, what is in it for them? | 08:23 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: No, they can't. | 08:23 |
| raster | zr0: freerunner | 08:23 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: i believe xilinx usually takes this kind of approach | 08:23 |
| raster | as such om finally got a license for the modem os | 08:23 |
| raster | and spent a while trying to fix a lot of the issues | 08:23 |
| raster | but not all were | 08:23 |
| RST38h | me moos | 08:23 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: They do this - the first person that misuses it then makes them unable to sell the n900 int he UK. | 08:23 |
| * RST38h moos | 08:23 | |
| raster | it still was a shitting grps modem anyway | 08:24 |
| raster | shitty | 08:24 |
| raster | so nice and schloooooooooooow | 08:24 |
| RST38h | freerunner = pandora-1 | 08:24 |
| TiagoTiago | It would be beneficial for them 'cause they would be able to use the good stuff the community comes up with in their own devices while preventing the competitors from doing so | 08:24 |
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| TiagoTiago | ah, yeah, i forgot about the damn law | 08:24 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 08:24 |
| zr0 | change the law | 08:24 |
| SpeedEvil | And I suspect the UK is not alone. | 08:24 |
| zr0 | =D | 08:24 |
| TiagoTiago | i don't live there | 08:24 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: It's there for a reason. | 08:24 |
| TiagoTiago | i dunno what the laws are over here though | 08:24 |
| zr0 | what is the reason? | 08:25 |
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| raster | not just the law | 08:25 |
| raster | pissed off telcos | 08:25 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: If you for example have two N900s - you can transfer data between them - 'free' at a range of a couple of kilometers. | 08:25 |
| TiagoTiago | To prevent people abusing the system? | 08:25 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago, yeah, even I don't see the cost/benefit coming out in their favor, and I'm a lot more optimistic than them | 08:25 |
| raster | if you are known as the company that makes phones that are easy to bring down telco cells | 08:25 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: This will however knock out 16 or more calls that are in progress at once. | 08:25 |
| raster | the telcos will just black-ban you | 08:25 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: And some of these may be emergency calls. | 08:25 |
| RST38h | raster: frankly, I suspect that telcos' statement that "people would be able to misuse their networks" is somewhat overblown | 08:25 |
| raster | and refuse to sell your phones until you stop being a pain in the arse (in the name of openness) | 08:25 |
| zr0 | SpeedEvil: but you could still accomplish the same thing by building your own radio.. | 08:26 |
| raster | RST38h: it is - but he moment someone actually does | 08:26 |
| zr0 | transmitter, whatever | 08:26 |
| raster | and phone makes fear that trememndously | 08:26 |
| raster | they will lose billions fo $ | 08:26 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: There is a fucking huge difference between having to obtain your own transmitter, and a 12 year-old being able to install it on his purchased phone. | 08:26 |
| raster | so unless being open generates many billions of $ that makes up for telcos saying "screw you" | 08:26 |
| RST38h | raster: Similar thing happened with Wifi, and we are all still alive | 08:26 |
| raster | and also runing a rsik of itc bans and other legal bans and repurcussions | 08:27 |
| raster | u avoid the risk :( | 08:27 |
| raster | RST38h: wifi wasnt licensed | 08:27 |
| TiagoTiago | but people don't make emergency calls via wifi (most of the time) | 08:27 |
| raster | telcos didnt bay billions for the spectrum | 08:27 |
| raster | :) | 08:27 |
| raster | yeah | 08:27 |
| johnx | RST38h, the spectrum used by wifi in the states isn't regulated except output power, and is 'subject to interference' | 08:27 |
| raster | and legally its not regulated like cellphone space | 08:27 |
| raster | it sucks | 08:27 |
| raster | but its how it is | 08:27 |
| raster | the best u can hope for is the modem interface being open to the black-box modem | 08:28 |
| zr0 | SpeedEvil: you think a 12 yearold would figure out how to flash some opensource firmware into a phone? cmon | 08:28 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: no. | 08:28 |
| raster | and then hope the modem engineers do a good job exposing most of what is needed safely | 08:28 |
| TiagoTiago | Hm, what if they jsut locked the use of the registred frequency bands and allowed we to do whatever we want in the unregistred ones? | 08:28 |
| zr0 | raster: exactly | 08:28 |
| raster | what they think you need | 08:28 |
| zr0 | but it'll never happen | 08:28 |
| johnx | zr0, a 15 year old could | 08:28 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: Someone develops that firmware - using the 'you can use this opensource modem' feature - and then releases it. | 08:28 |
| raster | and what u actually want may not be in agreement | 08:28 |
| raster | but maybe over time that will stabilise | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | johnx: the spectrum used by GSM in the US isn't regulated except output power, either | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | not 900 MHz at least :D | 08:29 |
| ds3 | which spectrum? the US has 2 GSM bands | 08:29 |
| SpeedEvil | 900MHz is not used in the US | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: N900 supports it, and it's regulated like 802.11 bands | 08:29 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't 900mhz also used by wireless landline handsets, babymonitors and abunch of other things like that? | 08:29 |
| zr0 | it's 850, i believe | 08:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Also. | 08:30 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.smart-wi-fi.com/index.php | 08:30 |
| SpeedEvil | This is the UMA peoples blog | 08:30 |
| SpeedEvil | all of their top stories are 'UMA isn't being rolled out'. | 08:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Pretty much | 08:30 |
| zr0 | someone needs to create a phone that solely does dect and wifi and can connect to voip providers | 08:31 |
| tigert | heh, livewallpaper i8s cte | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | dect? | 08:31 |
| tigert | eek | 08:31 |
| tigert | is cute, even | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | zr0: keep in mind N900 isn't a phone | 08:31 |
| zr0 | then the telcos would start implementing uma | 08:31 |
| TiagoTiago | the problem with that is lack of coverage | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | zr0: no, they wouldn't. | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | zr0: reality: nobody would buy the phone | 08:31 |
| TiagoTiago | https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/900mhz | 08:31 |
| raster | tigert: tigert??? *the* tigert from way back gnomey stuff? | 08:32 |
| tigert | oo | 08:32 |
| tigert | carsten? | 08:32 |
| zr0 | luke-jr: uh.. you could market as: a phone you pay $5 a month for | 08:32 |
| raster | aaah bugger | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | because in the real world, people make payments on the phone the telco sends them | 08:32 |
| tigert | woot =) | 08:32 |
| raster | ooh wait | 08:32 |
| raster | that was an oo | 08:32 |
| raster | not a no | 08:32 |
| raster | trig WO man! LTNS! | 08:32 |
| raster | bloody hell | 08:32 |
| tigert | yeah :) | 08:32 |
| raster | hopw ya doing? | 08:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I pay $5/mo for my phone plan | 08:32 |
| tigert | been motre than a while =) | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | zr0: N810 supported only WiMax and WiFi ;) | 08:32 |
| SpeedEvil | that I get 1G of data with. | 08:32 |
| tigert | more, even. silly typos this morning | 08:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - 3 quid. | 08:32 |
| raster | tigert: heheheh indeed a long while | 08:33 |
| zr0 | luke-jr: obviously it would have to be a cheapass product to sell | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | but like the N900, it wasn't a phone | 08:33 |
| zr0 | sure | 08:33 |
| tigert | raster: been at nokia for a bunch of years now | 08:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | zr0: you're in the wrong country. | 08:33 |
| raster | tigert: really? didn't know u headed nok-way | 08:33 |
| raster | tigert: doing arty goop? | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | how does UMTS do for coverage area btw? | 08:33 |
| SpeedEvil | zr0: I can buy a phone for $20 outright. And then get reasonable priced calls on it. | 08:33 |
| raster | or moved to doing other things? | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | my understanding is WCDMA has significantly worse range than GSM did | 08:34 |
| tigert | raster: was at ximian/novell for a while and then about the time the N800 was in teh works got there | 08:34 |
| zr0 | SpeedEvil: if you have good coverage | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | zr0: there's obviously no point in using UMTS over GSM on a cheap product | 08:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | IMO Nokia should release the sucessor of the N900 (as in a device that is at least as good as it in all aspects) that comes with at least two soft-reprogramable transceivers (with frequencies limitations to not break laws of course) | 08:34 |
| tigert | raster: did the default theme for N810 | 08:34 |
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| luke-jr | the only point to WCDMA over GSM is bandwidth, which is only useful on smartphones or computers | 08:34 |
| tigert | raster: then kinda supported folks with N900 theming etc | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: not happening | 08:35 |
| TiagoTiago | why not? | 08:35 |
| tigert | raster: going for parental leave in a month though now | 08:35 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: When it would cost $20-$1000 more - depending on the capabilities of these trancievers? | 08:35 |
| tigert | raster: how about you? | 08:35 |
| raster | tigert: ooh awesome! so still themeing your little heart away! | 08:35 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Are you high? | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: because the successor of the N900 already exists | 08:35 |
| TiagoTiago | are those things really that expensive? | 08:35 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: yes. | 08:35 |
| raster | awesome | 08:35 |
| tigert | i saw you hacking at openmoko a while back | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: don't they use far more power too? | 08:35 |
| raster | and now are they making you learn qml etc.? | 08:35 |
| raster | yeah | 08:36 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: If you're talking of actually flexible trancievers. | 08:36 |
| tigert | well, qml is looking neat | 08:36 |
| TiagoTiago | if the GSM modem can be reprogramed, why would those other radios be so much more expensive? | 08:36 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Because it can't. | 08:36 |
| raster | i left japan - did my taiwan-half stint | 08:36 |
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| raster | and now i'm @ sammy | 08:36 |
| tigert | ok | 08:36 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: The GSM modem can send stuff that is GSM-modem-like on the same bands. | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: the GSM modem can't be reprogrammed at that low a level | 08:36 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: :) | 08:36 |
| * raster aims his guns @ tigert | 08:36 | |
| TiagoTiago | i thought you said the only obstacles was knowing the hardware and getting the code signed | 08:36 |
| raster | you are now the enemy! MUHAHAHAHAHHAHA | 08:36 |
| raster | :) | 08:36 |
| TiagoTiago | oh | 08:36 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It cannot do arbitrary frequencies, or modulations. | 08:36 |
| raster | just kidding :) | 08:36 |
| tigert | hehe | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | raster: Sammy? as in Samsung? | 08:37 |
| tigert | raster: :) cool for you | 08:37 |
| TiagoTiago | there is o such thing as a DSP like on soundcards but for radio frequencies? | 08:37 |
| tigert | the world needs good pixels | 08:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - I'm going to sleep. | 08:37 |
| raster | luke-jr: yes. | 08:37 |
| TiagoTiago | there is no* | 08:37 |
| SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: yes. | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: there is, for like $1000 and not pocket-sized | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: see OpenBTS | 08:37 |
| raster | at samsung electronics hq in korea | 08:37 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 08:37 |
| TiagoTiago | why are they so expensive? | 08:37 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: sure, but you need a receiver | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | raster: a position to influence future products? :P | 08:37 |
| TiagoTiago | my PC soundcard can have a the DSP reprogramed to affect input just the same as output | 08:38 |
| raster | making good things happen with cute little sammy devices, boxes, prototypes... and efl :) | 08:38 |
| raster | luke-jr: principal enigneer. so i guess.. yes. :) | 08:38 |
| raster | sammy pestered me until i finally agree dto join and move to ke | 08:38 |
| tigert | raster: neat :) | 08:38 |
| raster | so i guess i have something they want | 08:38 |
| raster | beatsm me what it is :) | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | LOL | 08:39 |
| TiagoTiago | why DSP for radio frequencies would be more expensive? Clock issues? | 08:39 |
| raster | all i want to see is linux become the mainstay of the handset world | 08:39 |
| raster | not android - bny linux i mean gnu/linux/x11/miniature desktop in your pocket | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: because radio is black magic | 08:39 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 08:39 |
| raster | linux aint gong to win any desktop | 08:39 |
| TiagoTiago | just lack of consumers to make the price go down? | 08:39 |
| tigert | raster: the N900 has been interesting for sure | 08:39 |
| raster | but it hjas a brigh future on things like phones and tablets and so on | 08:39 |
| zr0 | it sure lost bigtime in netbooks.. | 08:40 |
| obsidieth | linux is a shit desktop | 08:40 |
| raster | tigert: it has. i have one on my desk @ home | 08:40 |
| tigert | would we have imagined back then a device like this? | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | raster: get them to make this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52549449@N05/4915160604/ | 08:40 |
| johnx | raster, didn't samsung just announce they're throwing all their effort behind android? | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | raster: and ignore the crappy drawing, it's a failed concept | 08:40 |
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| luke-jr | obsidieth: as if there's something better? | 08:40 |
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| tigert | raster: i am chatting on one, just hopped off tram and got to offices | 08:40 |
| raster | jo news to me... and the few hundred enigneers around me :) | 08:40 |
| obsidieth | windows. | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | obsidieth: LOL | 08:40 |
| obsidieth | oh. i thought i was somewhere else | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | Windows is a terrible desktop | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | it only sells because people don't think they have a choice, and if they do, they're already used to the crappy design of it | 08:41 |
| zr0 | luke-jr: that argument goes for a lot of things | 08:41 |
| TiagoTiago | that thing needs one or two analog nubs and shoulder rockers | 08:41 |
| raster | luke-jr: i work in the mobile platform group. as such actual hw is arms-length of influence | 08:41 |
| raster | :) | 08:41 |
| RST38h | luke-jr: this design is mechanically risky | 08:41 |
| johnx | raster, <raster> etc. | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: hence ignoring the picture | 08:41 |
| johnx | raster, http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/02/samsung-we-are-prioritizing-our-android-platform/ | 08:42 |
| tigert | raster: so research stuff? | 08:42 |
| raster | tigert: nice. n900 isnt bad.. tho i have to say the software was buggy-as-all-hell | 08:42 |
| luke-jr | raster: that is specs for a mobile platform :P | 08:42 |
| TiagoTiago | it's a slide combined with a flip | 08:42 |
| raster | it felt entirely alpha | 08:42 |
| tigert | well, its not too bad now with updates etc | 08:42 |
| raster | mine brticked itself twice on its own | 08:42 |
| tigert | its rough and edgy | 08:42 |
| raster | and would reboot and soldi-hang evetry few mins on average | 08:42 |
| raster | :( | 08:42 |
| tigert | but it does a neat job in a segment | 08:42 |
| tigert | raster: uh, yours is a bad batch then :P | 08:43 |
| tigert | or broken | 08:43 |
| luke-jr | raster: did you read the text part? that's all I mean :P | 08:43 |
| tigert | this is pretty solid | 08:43 |
| raster | josamsung is a big place with like 200,000+ people | 08:43 |
| raster | err | 08:43 |
| raster | damned tab compl | 08:43 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there anything fun i can stick in the sd slot (stuff using sdio) that isn't expensive? | 08:43 |
| tigert | samsung is like the whole country | 08:43 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago, an sd card | 08:43 |
| RST38h | tigert: with hildon-desktop recompiled from the repository, kernel tweaked, microb replaced with opera, ham replaced with fapman, and modest ignored, it is not that bad :) | 08:43 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 08:43 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: your finger? | 08:43 |
| raster | johnx: "we are prioritizing" doesnt eman "We are throwing everything behind this and doing nothing else" | 08:43 |
| zr0 | there's kia too | 08:44 |
| raster | it means "this is important now" | 08:44 |
| zr0 | and lg | 08:44 |
| TiagoTiago | i read there are things like wifi cards and even GPS cards | 08:44 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: not in MicroSD form | 08:44 |
| TiagoTiago | bigger SD formats? | 08:44 |
| luke-jr | normal SD | 08:44 |
| tigert | raster: so what brings you here? :) | 08:44 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 08:44 |
| luke-jr | I have a 802.11b CompactFlash… | 08:45 |
| raster | luke-jr: i saw the text. that basically wants a mobile pc. | 08:45 |
| raster | so get one :) | 08:45 |
| raster | sony make some small ones :) | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | raster: those don't exist | 08:45 |
| TiagoTiago | well, how hard would it be to make a adapter that has a ribbon cable with a plug in the tip shaped like a microSD? | 08:45 |
| raster | well if your pants are big enough | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: TIAS | 08:45 |
| raster | it fits in a pocket | 08:45 |
| TiagoTiago | what is that? | 08:45 |
| TiagoTiago | ~TIAS | 08:45 |
| infobot | Try it and see! You will learn more, and probably have a better feeling of satisfaction, if you experiment with simple cases to learn a language than you will by asking yes or no questions. | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | raster: one requirement is it fits in a normal pocket | 08:45 |
| raster | tigert: ho anyway.. distratced ummm well ijust hang here to listen in | 08:45 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 08:45 |
| raster | and see what the nokia/maemo world does | 08:45 |
| raster | and now meego | 08:46 |
| raster | etc. | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | raster: C760 was perfect for its day | 08:46 |
| raster | tho i have to say i am not fond of meego's general dir of "qt and rpm | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | raster: the physical size of this thing could be that of two N810s stacked | 08:46 |
| raster | gbut overall i like many of the goals and ideas | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | yeah, RPM sucks | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | but what's the problem with Qt? you'd rather DirectFB? | 08:47 |
| tigert | raster: yeah | 08:47 |
| TiagoTiago | i don't know enough about the stuff, thigns like impedance, resistance etc, i woudl probably mess up, not to mention the risk of some shaky soldering ending up shorting my expensive N900 | 08:47 |
| raster | luke-jr: sony make a pc thats about that size-ish already | 08:47 |
| raster | have for years | 08:47 |
| tigert | raster: well yeah. package management is not interesting to me as long as it works though | 08:47 |
| luke-jr | raster: if so, I think I'd know about and buy it :P | 08:47 |
| raster | luke-jr: qt... c++... its partly the "now u must use c++" | 08:47 |
| tigert | we managed to fsck up our debs more than enough in the past | 08:47 |
| raster | and partly just that the qt api ... doesnt feel right for me | 08:47 |
| raster | personaly taste thing | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | raster: meh, Qt is really a new language of its own | 08:48 |
| tigert | so its not really about what you use but how you do the stuff :) | 08:48 |
| raster | i never really grew to like it | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | raster: but the alternatives are far worse | 08:48 |
| TiagoTiago | What OS that Comunicator that had one regular screen and keypad and a qwerty keyboard and widescreen when you flipped it open used? | 08:48 |
| raster | gtk felt much nicer | 08:48 |
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| tigert | raster: yeah, I still dont code so I dont have an opinion on that so much | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | GTK is slow and ugly | 08:48 |
| raster | hehehe | 08:48 |
| zr0 | gtk, blech | 08:48 |
| tigert | luke-jr: dont get him started on E ;) | 08:48 |
| raster | luke-jr: do u see me using it? | 08:48 |
| raster | :) | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | raster: I can't see any ARM handhelds Sony makes… | 08:48 |
| raster | iw as comparing qt and gtk as api's | 08:48 |
| raster | as toolkits to use from the programming side | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | raster: API is only as good as the implementation | 08:49 |
| raster | luke-jr: they make an x86 on3e | 08:49 |
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| luke-jr | raster: x86 is crap | 08:49 |
| raster | install regular linux on it | 08:49 |
| raster | have fun | 08:49 |
| raster | :) | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | regular linux supports ARM | 08:49 |
| * raster shrugs | 08:49 | |
| raster | you can start your own hw company and make what u want | 08:49 |
| raster | :) | 08:49 |
| zr0 | luke-jr: be sure to let intel know that | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | I wish | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | zr0: they probably know | 08:49 |
| tigert | raster: < Ankh> tell him I remembr tlkngi ot hmi in cpmm4$tralfisdney wherj d }| | 08:49 |
| tigert | ;) | 08:49 |
| raster | tigert: wtf? :) | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | Atom uses like 50 times the power Cortex-A9 does, and Atom is slower | 08:50 |
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| tigert | raster: I guess quim is referring to your legendary typolanguage in the past :D | 08:50 |
| TiagoTiago | Intell doesn't make ARM, right? Why the ARM people didn't try to keep Nokia wuth them? OR did they? What happened? | 08:50 |
| raster | tigert: hahahahahahahahhahaha | 08:50 |
| tigert | erm | 08:50 |
| tigert | liam | 08:50 |
| tigert | not quim | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: Intel used to make ARM, but they sold it. | 08:50 |
| * tigert mixes those names | 08:50 | |
| TiagoTiago | oh | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: Nokia is sticking with ARM afaik | 08:51 |
| raster | tigert: btw - despite my not so fondness of qt.. and rpm - i think the whole meego and even maemo and stuff nokia is doingis good | 08:51 |
| zr0 | luke-jr: for handsets | 08:51 |
| raster | i keep tabs on it mostly because i dont want an all-out-war ensuing in the linux os space | 08:51 |
| TiagoTiago | They gonna make ARM Meego devices? | 08:51 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago, Nokia is sticking with ARM in the near term and hedging their bets in the long term | 08:51 |
| zr0 | sure | 08:51 |
| raster | and no "try and bridget the gap" efforts in sight | 08:51 |
| johnx | pretty much like *everyone else* with half a clue | 08:51 |
| luke-jr | zr0: if it's not pocketable, size doesn't matter to me :P | 08:51 |
| Stskeeps | TiagoTiago: sure, N900 is ARM reference devices | 08:51 |
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| RST38h | Intel still makes ARM CPUs just not for general purpose | 08:51 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: all Nokia MeeGo will be ARM afaik | 08:51 |
| TiagoTiago | i mean, a device that coems from the factory with MEeGo | 08:52 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 08:52 |
| zr0 | we'll see, i'm sure intel is going to make a series of atom-based tablets | 08:52 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: you realize the N900's successor already is built and in testing? :P | 08:52 |
| TiagoTiago | i thought they were going to use Intell hardware 'cause of the partnership and all | 08:52 |
| TiagoTiago | the N9? | 08:52 |
| luke-jr | zr0: as long as their power consumption is terrible, it'll suck | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | TiagoTiago: no, misperception - there's still a large use for ARM meego devices | 08:52 |
| luke-jr | unless they manage to make batteries a lot smaller | 08:53 |
| TiagoTiago | they dropped too many zeros, that device should stick with Symbian | 08:53 |
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| RST38h | The Harmattan device is ARM-based indeed | 08:53 |
| RST38h | But the architecture of the followind devices has not been announced | 08:53 |
| zr0 | the N9 looks unimpressive | 08:53 |
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| luke-jr | the N900 looks unimpressive too | 08:53 |
| asj | zr0: what does it look like? :) | 08:53 |
| luke-jr | asj: go check the pics | 08:53 |
| zr0 | agreed | 08:53 |
| RST38h | So I would not make any premature conclusions | 08:53 |
| TiagoTiago | i like how you can tell jsut by the weight that the N900 means busyness | 08:54 |
| asj | zr0: which ones? | 08:54 |
| johnx | zr0, in terms of the actual looks or you mean CPU/RAM? | 08:54 |
| zr0 | aesthetically | 08:54 |
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| luke-jr | asj: the teardown? :p | 08:54 |
| zr0 | although i like the n900 more than the n9 | 08:54 |
| zr0 | look wise | 08:54 |
| luke-jr | zr0: N810 was better than N900 if you ignore the internals | 08:55 |
| raster | TiagoTiago: its like measuring quality of code by how many lines of code there are. | 08:55 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't the leaked images from a prototype, likelly to be wearing a temporary case meant jsut to hold the breadboards together? | 08:55 |
| raster | its pointless. | 08:55 |
| raster | the n900 is a fairly bulky and heavy device | 08:55 |
| zr0 | sure | 08:55 |
| asj | ah those ones | 08:55 |
| zr0 | compared to my e71, it's a tank | 08:55 |
| raster | and relative to its weight.. its fairly skimpy on performance and other features | 08:55 |
| tigert | raster: thats mostly due to the keyboard | 08:55 |
| raster | its "ok" | 08:55 |
| raster | but not amazing | 08:55 |
| luke-jr | zr0: isn't E71 a phone? | 08:55 |
| asj | zr0: yeah, but the n900 is good for something ;) | 08:55 |
| raster | tigert: possibly | 08:55 |
| tigert | could be a lot thinner without | 08:55 |
| tigert | but then again, the kbd makes it more useful | 08:56 |
| raster | tigert: but kbd or no - next ti my galaxy-s.. it looks primitive and chubby | 08:56 |
| raster | :) | 08:56 |
| tigert | text input is a big issue on handhelds that dont have one | 08:56 |
| raster | (and software-wise.. feels that way too) | 08:56 |
| TiagoTiago | The N900 is heavy enough you can brick someone with it :P | 08:56 |
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| luke-jr | comparing a tablet with a phone isn't fair | 08:56 |
| asj | TiagoTiago: you obviously have never helf an E90 | 08:56 |
| asj | hefted | 08:56 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 08:56 |
| raster | same soc+screen+everything else prototypes as galaxy-s (ie basically galaxys in a different bit of plastic) run efl and x11 silky smoothly :) | 08:57 |
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| tigert | raster: well sure, the thing is a year old | 08:57 |
| tigert | raster: actually it was announced one year and one day ago | 08:57 |
| raster | with compositing, zero screen update tearing, 32bpp everywhere and more :) | 08:57 |
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| raster | tigert: sure :) | 08:57 |
| TiagoTiago | if all the plastic bits (other than the transparent screen stuff) were replaced with alluminum stuff, would the signal of the many radios suffer? | 08:57 |
| luke-jr | 32bpp? X11 doesn't even support that… | 08:57 |
| luke-jr | or at least not Xorg | 08:57 |
| raster | tigert: agreed. 100% :) | 08:58 |
| raster | luke-jr: yes it does | 08:58 |
| raster | it has for a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time | 08:58 |
| luke-jr | raster: pretty sure not | 08:58 |
| raster | how do u think compositing works.. hwo do u think we have xrender with alpha channels? | 08:58 |
| johnx | luke-jr, it supported it before it was xorg. xfree 3 had it | 08:58 |
| luke-jr | those alpha channels aren't in hardware | 08:58 |
| raster | 32bpp has been supported since the most ancient xservers | 08:58 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: no | 08:58 |
| raster | it only USEd 24bits of the 32 for color | 08:58 |
| raster | the other bits may or m,ay not have been used | 08:59 |
| johnx | but were available to be used for alpha | 08:59 |
| luke-jr | you're talking the LCD, no? | 08:59 |
| johnx | hence RGBA | 08:59 |
| TiagoTiago | I wonder how much it woudl cost to have my N900 retrofitted with aluminum parts (with mate black coating) | 08:59 |
| raster | o(as such in the ancient workstation days - sun/sgi the extra 8 bits were actually the 8bpp color overlay) | 08:59 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: buy a black n8 | 08:59 |
| TiagoTiago | it runs Symbian, no? | 08:59 |
| raster | as such... x has suported 32bpp since long before you ever even knew linux/xfree86 etc. existed :) | 08:59 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago, a couple thousand to a couple million USD depending on how professional you want it | 08:59 |
| zr0 | TiagoTiago: yes.. | 08:59 |
| luke-jr | raster: not 32bpp colour. :p | 08:59 |
| TiagoTiago | wow,t hat much? | 09:00 |
| luke-jr | 24bpp colour + 8bit alpha | 09:00 |
| luke-jr | and in all cases, it is flattened to 24bpp before getting to the CLD | 09:00 |
| luke-jr | LCD* | 09:00 |
| TiagoTiago | the professionalism level would be what i Nokia would do if they had made it with aluminum | 09:00 |
| TiagoTiago | what Nokia* | 09:00 |
| raster | luke-jr: in most cases it only goes to 24bpp when it comes from the ramdac to the screen | 09:01 |
| raster | as far as software, gpu, memory is concerned. its 32bits per pixel | 09:01 |
| luke-jr | would be neat to have a LCD that supported true RGBA :P | 09:01 |
| raster | thats WHY bpp in x11 is separate from visual | 09:01 |
| TiagoTiago | indeed | 09:01 |
| tigert | TiagoTiago: http://www.emachineshop.com/ :) | 09:01 |
| raster | and why u have rgb masks | 09:01 |
| TiagoTiago | i wouldn't be able to model all the parts correctly | 09:02 |
| johnx | luke-jr, so uhm, you get to save one super-optimized blending step and push it off to the monitor? huh? | 09:02 |
| sugnan | hello, i have a issue while packaging, my app is using the package from other repo which wont be avail by default on n900, i want to make my application to install the dependencies automatically when my application is installed, is there any way to add the required repo dynamically by the package itself? | 09:02 |
| zr0 | wow, all of these android devices need at least a 1GHz cpu to run.. | 09:02 |
| luke-jr | johnx: no, so alpha 50% means you see through the device | 09:02 |
| luke-jr | johnx: ideally without latency | 09:02 |
| johnx | sugnan, I don't think an app like that would be allowed in extras | 09:03 |
| luke-jr | alpha 100% would mean it's a piece of glass in practice | 09:03 |
| johnx | but you could just make a .install file that added the repo | 09:03 |
| TiagoTiago | have you seen that cartton called Zeek's Pad? | 09:03 |
| TiagoTiago | Cartoon* | 09:03 |
| TiagoTiago | the magic pad in question is like that | 09:03 |
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| luke-jr | it would probably take some real optical hacks or miniaturization leaps to get that in a tablet ofc | 09:04 |
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| luke-jr | (I suppose there's probably some way to bend the light around the electronics) | 09:05 |
| TiagoTiago | I've seen a transparent LCD watch, and also transparent OLED displays, the technology is there already | 09:05 |
| TiagoTiago | not watch, a clock | 09:05 |
| johnx | luke-jr, circuit board goes in the bezel | 09:06 |
| johnx | but that's a lot of wasted space for a cool effect | 09:06 |
| TiagoTiago | though they couldn't sense what was going thru the screen when transparent | 09:06 |
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| TiagoTiago | like, you woudln't be able to take a picture that looks exactly like what you see thru the screen | 09:06 |
| luke-jr | johnx: you're assuming it is only used for effect | 09:07 |
| tigert | TiagoTiago: but I guess there the "alpha" means "white"? | 09:07 |
| TiagoTiago | i'm pretty sure you can have all sorts of electronic stuff made transparent | 09:07 |
| tigert | like, remove the back plate and backlight from your monitor and you can see through the image | 09:07 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, in glasses it'd be nice of course | 09:07 |
| tigert | afaik | 09:07 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: exactly ☺ | 09:07 |
| johnx | but in that case, put the electronics somewhere else | 09:08 |
| TiagoTiago | the LCD layer woudl control the opacity, going from transparent to black, and the OLED would be for the colors and making white | 09:08 |
| luke-jr | johnx: but I'm told the focus problem would be such it really needs a retina thing | 09:08 |
| tigert | raster: but congrats for teh job and good luck :) | 09:08 |
| TiagoTiago | some LCD monitors can be transformed into projectors with the help of a lamp | 09:08 |
| johnx | luke-jr, don't the vuze glasses use mirrors or something? | 09:08 |
| luke-jr | I wonder if it would work to instead of a nanotech OpenGL display that *only* twisted light coming through it (or generated off to the side by R B G LEDs) | 09:09 |
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| luke-jr | instead have a* | 09:09 |
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| TiagoTiago | like those micromechanical projection TVs? | 09:09 |
| johnx | luke-jr, yeah, but I want mine *this* decade | 09:10 |
| johnx | I'll workaround with a hacked pair of vuze glasses if I have to | 09:10 |
| TiagoTiago | basicly it's an array of tiny mirrors that flick back and forth and a light source that alternates between the 3 colors | 09:10 |
| johnx | but I'll wait until I can get at least 640x480 for cheap | 09:10 |
| luke-jr | hehe | 09:10 |
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| raster | tigert: thanks man! awesoem to know you're still around. i'm sure i'll see u again :) | 09:11 |
| TiagoTiago | I once read about this screen technology that workedlike butterfly wings | 09:11 |
| raster | no go and do some work | 09:11 |
| raster | :) | 09:11 |
| tigert | raster: yeah, a small world we have | 09:11 |
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| raster | indeed | 09:11 |
| tigert | garrett is at suse still, I think jimmac went to RH | 09:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | the MyDocs partition can't have infinite recursive subfolders, right? | 09:12 |
| sugnan | johnx, ok let me be clear about my application, am not using something very out from the repository, actually my requirement is to find whether gcc and supporting libs is installed on n900, the repository required by application wont be available by default on tablet, so can some how specify the repo in debian files? | 09:13 |
| luke-jr | mkdir /home/user/MyDocs/x && mount --rbind /home/user/MyDocs /home/user/MyDocs/x | 09:13 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 09:13 |
| TiagoTiago | remember that Mydocs is VFAT | 09:13 |
| johnx | TiagoTiago, no. folders take up space. also, vfat has a path length limit, IIRC | 09:13 |
| raster | tigert: wow!!! blast from the past... ha! names.... havent crossed my path is years! | 09:13 |
| TiagoTiago | good | 09:13 |
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| tigert | raster: I've been keeping in touch on irc with them | 09:14 |
| tigert | its good to have peer critique when needed :) | 09:14 |
| TiagoTiago | with the FTP all the time getting to low 3 digits and then jumping to mid-low 4 digits count for files left i was getting worried | 09:14 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: mount --rbind doesn't care | 09:14 |
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| sugnan | i have built a application using which user can compile, execute and debug c or c++ program in single editor environment, have a look on the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sIhAPcdd9c | 09:14 |
| raster | TiagoTiago: that is indeed true. | 09:15 |
| raster | errr | 09:15 |
| TiagoTiago | would that result in infinite folders for a SFTP program acessing the partition? | 09:15 |
| johnx | sugnan, yes. if you create a .install, it will specify the required repositories to add and a package to install after adding those repositories. that's how firefox (fennec) is distributed for the N900 | 09:15 |
| raster | TiagoTiago: sorry tab-miss | 09:15 |
| raster | tigert: ineed that is true | 09:15 |
| luke-jr | sugnan: so have many people before you, and theirs is probably more mature… | 09:15 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Anything cool/creative you have been doing lately you can talk about? :) | 09:15 |
| raster | tigert: and soem good old trusted voices too | 09:15 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: yes | 09:15 |
| tigert | raster: yeah | 09:15 |
| TiagoTiago | how can i check if it is the case? | 09:15 |
| tigert | X-Fade: well, I worked on the harmattan theming stuff | 09:15 |
| tigert | not just me though, and it was mostly groundwork there | 09:16 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Ah :) | 09:16 |
| sugnan | johnx, so the .install file should be clicked and should add the repository before installing my application ? | 09:16 |
| sugnan | luke-jr, i dint get you | 09:17 |
| luke-jr | sugnan: just saying, nothing special about it… :p | 09:17 |
| X-Fade | tigert: It would be cool if you guys would blog a bit about the cool stuff. You don't see much lately. | 09:17 |
| tigert | X-Fade: yeah, I agree | 09:17 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, i'm reading about femtocells and they mentioned yo'ure not supposed to cross international borders with them, but what happens if you live right next tot he border? | 09:17 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: probably they shut off | 09:18 |
| johnx | sugnan, exactly. just look at the .install file for firefox mobile for maemo. it's plain text, easy to understand | 09:18 |
| luke-jr | depending on the border | 09:18 |
| TiagoTiago | no, i mean, you place it in your living room, plug it in etc, but on the other side of the wall it's another country | 09:18 |
| sugnan | johnx, thanks | 09:18 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: and I mean, they probably won't turn on | 09:19 |
| TiagoTiago | oh | 09:19 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: they all have GPS so they know where they are | 09:19 |
| TiagoTiago | that would suck | 09:19 |
| TiagoTiago | you paid for the thing, and then it pullls a HAL and tells you "I'm afraid i can't let you do that" | 09:19 |
| johnx | eh, I bet they work just fine and no one notices or cares | 09:19 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 09:19 |
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| luke-jr | btw | 09:20 |
| johnx | I've had cell service from my carrier for miles across the canadian border | 09:20 |
| luke-jr | do any countries actually allow you to build your living room wall on a border? | 09:20 |
| TiagoTiago | good question | 09:20 |
| TiagoTiago | probably happens in those countries that split up recently | 09:21 |
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| luke-jr | that still happens? | 09:21 |
| luke-jr | in any case, wouldn't they put the border between buildings? | 09:21 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, well, the buildings they *know* about | 09:22 |
| TiagoTiago | perhaps it's a really big block? | 09:22 |
| johnx | if you have a house in the middle of nowhere I could see them painting a border through it | 09:22 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: borders do funny shapes | 09:22 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 09:22 |
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| Mece | ello | 09:23 |
| johnx | hi Mece | 09:23 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I think in that case, the whole house would still be considered part of the country the mailbox is in | 09:23 |
| TiagoTiago | but the buildings coudl have been built against each other | 09:23 |
| johnx | huh...yeah, if there's mail service to it ... | 09:23 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: uh, no | 09:23 |
| TiagoTiago | there are some places where there are buildings like that | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: if they're touching, then it's one building :P | 09:24 |
| johnx | catch you guys later. gotta focus for a sec | 09:24 |
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| Mece | can someone show me a tilde? | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | ≈≈≈≈≈` | 09:24 |
| TiagoTiago | even if you have to go outside to get to the other? | 09:24 |
| TiagoTiago | ~ | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | ~ | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: yeah | 09:24 |
| Mece | ~seen khertan | 09:24 |
| * luke-jr likes his tildes better | 09:24 | |
| infobot | khertan <c16a270a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.106.39.10> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19h 50m 14s ago, saying: 'i ve already tryed :)'. | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | infobot: seen Mece | 09:24 |
| infobot | mece is currently on #maemo (1m 52s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 18s, last said: '~seen khertan'. | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | no tilde required | 09:24 |
| X-Fade | Mece: fn-symb :) | 09:24 |
| Mece | thanks | 09:25 |
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| Mece | X-Fade, doesn't work today for some reason | 09:25 |
| * luke-jr bets that in any other channels, "can someone show me a tilde" would be taken as flamebait | 09:25 | |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 09:25 |
| luke-jr | only here do we understand the sadness of not having a tilde key… | 09:25 |
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| X-Fade | Well it used to be, How can I type | :) | 09:25 |
| Mece | hehe | 09:26 |
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| rmrfchik | hmm.. i do have tilde | 09:26 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: anyhow, I don't get what's the need to cram people in so tight | 09:26 |
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| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: even if everyone in the world moved to Texas, there'd be enough space for each individual to have his own large 3 bedroom house | 09:27 |
| TiagoTiago | i read that the pipe and the split pipe are considered the same cause no one cared for making them be enconded differently even if they look different, i don't like it, it looks wrong in the key it's split but when i type it's not | 09:27 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't that just everyone in the US? | 09:27 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: they ARE encoded differently | 09:27 |
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| TiagoTiago | well, that is not what i remember reading when i was reading baout Unicode | 09:28 |
| TiagoTiago | the key in my keyboard looks like a split pipe, but when i type, usually it's a regular pipe, but in some fonts and codepages it is split | 09:28 |
| luke-jr | | vs ¦ | 09:28 |
| TiagoTiago | yeah | 09:29 |
| TiagoTiago | the key in my keyboard looks like the second but types the first | 09:29 |
| TiagoTiago | | | 09:29 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: your keyboard is mislabelled :P | 09:29 |
| tigert | |¦| | 09:29 |
| tigert | |¦| | 09:29 |
| tigert | |¦| | 09:29 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 09:29 |
| tigert | hah, road :) | 09:29 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 09:29 |
| luke-jr | lo | 09:29 |
| TiagoTiago | i wonder how long untill the print on the keys go away and i can have a hacker keyboard for free | 09:30 |
| Mece | haa ~ | 09:30 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: vertical bar is U+007C, and broken bar is U+00A6 | 09:30 |
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| TiagoTiago | ¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦|¦| | 09:31 |
| TiagoTiago | yay! :D | 09:31 |
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| TiagoTiago | I wish i could setup a bunch of additional keyboards making my computer desk like a airliner cockpit so i could have single keypresses to generate all the nice unicode chars i want | 09:32 |
| luke-jr | … | 09:33 |
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| TiagoTiago | there are lots of them | 09:33 |
| luke-jr | ☺ | 09:33 |
| TiagoTiago | see :) | 09:33 |
| luke-jr | ☠ | 09:33 |
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| luke-jr | ♩♪♫♬ | 09:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | in big cities, would it be possible to form a mesh network with all just about all the mobile phones and similar devices in such a way thateveryone could reach everyone? | 09:41 |
| luke-jr | TiagoTiago: I don't think it would be practical | 09:41 |
| luke-jr | the latency would be too much, and the bandwidth probably wouldn't work out well | 09:42 |
| TiagoTiago | even if distributed? | 09:42 |
| luke-jr | … | 09:42 |
| luke-jr | any way other than shortest path would just make the latency worse | 09:43 |
| TiagoTiago | but what about hte bandwidth? | 09:43 |
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| luke-jr | nfc | 09:45 |
| tigert | TiagoTiago: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ruby-Star-Airways/Antonov-An-12BK/1357507/L/ <- simple and clean like this? :) | 09:45 |
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| TiagoTiago | yep | 09:46 |
| TiagoTiago | but with more knobs and less dials | 09:47 |
| tigert | :) | 09:47 |
| TiagoTiago | :P | 09:48 |
| luke-jr | what's the difference between knobs and dials? | 09:48 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 09:48 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 09:48 |
| TiagoTiago | in this sense, i meant the thingies with the clock arms go away, and the thingies you grab and twist come in | 09:48 |
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| Mece | ~seen khertan_work | 09:57 |
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| infobot | khertan_work <c16a270a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.106.39.10> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 22h 14m 47s ago, saying: 'bye'. | 09:57 |
| Mece | anyone having trouble with khteditor 0.4-1? | 09:57 |
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| TiagoTiago | crap, yet again 1500+ files left...i really hope it's not an infinite recursive subfolder thing going on | 10:01 |
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| mece | ok, so this might be a stupid question with an obvious answer, but do we have pyqt and/or pyside in meego? | 10:08 |
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| TiagoTiago | wow, i'm reading about emergency numbers world wide, it's crazy how varied they are 0.0 | 10:09 |
| luke-jr | for me, it's 123456789*0# | 10:09 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 10:09 |
| luke-jr | (no, not really) | 10:09 |
| mece | I read a tweet the other day that someone fried his n900 by oc:ing. anyone see more info about this? | 10:11 |
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| mece | I'm kinda curious | 10:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | my /opt partition got fucked, my guess is because of OC'ing | 10:12 |
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| mece | TiagoTiago, well, if you could fix it with a flash it doesn't count. | 10:13 |
| TiagoTiago | i haven't tried flahsing yet, still backuping MyDocs over wiifi | 10:13 |
| TiagoTiago | i flashed the kernel only, that didn't help | 10:14 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:17 |
| merlin1991 | morning | 10:17 |
| jacekowski | more OC victims | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | well, your own bloody faults | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:19 |
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| TiagoTiago | in the end o f course it was me that pressed the keys, but there lots of people trying to convince people that OC'ing is all rainbows and lollipops | 10:22 |
| mece | but this one said he fried his processor. I can't find the tweet :/ | 10:22 |
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| mece | he got a galaxy or something because he oc:d his n900 to death or something like that. | 10:23 |
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| jacekowski | well, everybody here was warning you | 10:23 |
| jacekowski | except some morons that were saying it's all safe | 10:23 |
| kerio | "LOLOLO N900 SUX I CANT OVERCLOCK IT TO OVER 9000 GHZ GETTING A GALAXY ROFL{ | 10:23 |
| kerio | *" | 10:24 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 10:24 |
| kerio | it's safe if you have infinite money to buy more n900s | 10:24 |
| kerio | and if you have, i really hate you :< | 10:24 |
| TiagoTiago | i wish | 10:24 |
| rmrfchik | wanna be hated? | 10:25 |
| TiagoTiago | lol, no, i wish i could afford more N900s | 10:25 |
| mece | no it was a quite friendly message iirc. Like "testing the <some phone> now, since I might have been the first to actually oc my n900 to death ;)" | 10:25 |
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| mece | or something | 10:25 |
| kerio | haters gonna hate | 10:25 |
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| TiagoTiago | if it was just one or two more it owudln't be usefull, i wouldn't have the guts to spend so much money and not have any left, so if i could afford mroe N900s with ease, i would send a few to anyone that asked :) | 10:26 |
| kerio | i want a case for the n900 that guarantees complete survival in case of a baseball bat | 10:26 |
| mece | "i've got my own philosophy, I hate everyone equally" :) | 10:26 |
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| TiagoTiago | that probably would require an inertial dampener | 10:26 |
| psycho_oreos | and now he's got galaxy so he'll overclock that as well until it dies like how he treated his n900? | 10:26 |
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| mece | my n900 is perfectly fine and as fast as it needs to go. Modded the transitions a little, an it's quite nice. So I don't have the slightest temptation to oc. Also it's my only phone, and I'm poor. | 10:27 |
| TiagoTiago | it started witht hevoltages thing, and pepople reporting they were getting better battery life with bigger clocks......i fell for it | 10:28 |
| mece | kinda blows that I don't have an extra because I want to test some stuff in meego but can't really do it since I need to be able to answer the phone and such. | 10:28 |
| kerio | you like big clocks, do you | 10:28 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 10:28 |
| mece | I like big clocks, I cannot lie, you other brothers can't deny... | 10:29 |
| psycho_oreos | if you haven't watched videos of cpu without any proper cooling, being overclocked like hell and was fried as a result then you have much to learn | 10:29 |
| TiagoTiago | i know all about the egg frying video cards | 10:30 |
| mece | That when a clock walks in with an itty bitty strap And a round thing in your face, you get sprung... | 10:30 |
| mece | aaanyway | 10:30 |
| psycho_oreos | thankfully the n900's gpu isn't overclockable yet | 10:31 |
| jacekowski | well it is part of main CPU | 10:31 |
| luke-jr | psycho_oreos: you sure? | 10:31 |
| jacekowski | and it's same DPLL that controls it | 10:31 |
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| jacekowski | so it can be overclocked | 10:31 |
| noaXess | hello | 10:31 |
| mece | I don't like that I have to use flasher to boot meego, it would be nice with multiboot or whatever that bootmenu thing is called. Is that doable? | 10:31 |
| kerio | probably | 10:32 |
| psycho_oreos | luke-jr, no but not like as if I'm keen on overclocking in general anyway | 10:32 |
| mece | psycho_oreos, it can be oc'd and has been done. | 10:32 |
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| noaXess | does anybody work with a nokia n900 -> funambol -> funambolzimbra connector -> zimbra zcs? | 10:32 |
| TiagoTiago | there was all this talk about how the processors of the n900 were actually from a batch that was meant for higher clcoks but got declined, but from all the people OC'ing it seems most of the processors could handle a significant fraction of the original maximum | 10:32 |
| noaXess | i can sync contacts, but calendar gives me this: UNSUPPORTED MEDIA TYPE | 10:32 |
| kerio | TiagoTiago: the point is that they can't handle it | 10:32 |
| jacekowski | TiagoTiago: thing is that it will work stable | 10:32 |
| jacekowski | TiagoTiago: but it will make life shorter | 10:33 |
| jacekowski | TiagoTiago: even on high speed version | 10:33 |
| psycho_oreos | mece, meh I stand corrected, but I really don't understand the obsession with overclocking in devices that: 1) does not have any form of vents visible and 2) is cramped in a small space with other chipsets | 10:33 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: take a look again | 10:33 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: there are almost no electronics inside n900 | 10:33 |
| TiagoTiago | i didn't even do it for the performance, but for the battery life | 10:33 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: two ARM cpus and that's all | 10:33 |
| mece | psycho_oreos, because you can I guess. | 10:33 |
| psycho_oreos | jacekowski, you still have a very small case to deal with | 10:33 |
| mece | psycho_oreos, it's kinda big, imo. | 10:34 |
| psycho_oreos | jacekowski, and with lack of vents its a bit of wonder | 10:34 |
| kerio | yeah, going faster will totally consume less gas | 10:34 |
| psycho_oreos | mece, not really, judging by the FCC pics but I could be wrong, never bothered to pull mine appart | 10:34 |
| psycho_oreos | s/appart/apart/ | 10:34 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: mece, not really, judging by the FCC pics but I could be wrong, never bothered to pull mine apart | 10:34 |
| mece | speaking of gas, is this gas bubble thing a gigantic cpu hog. Looks cool. | 10:34 |
| mece | psycho_oreos, I meant that the n900 case is big in comparison to many mobile devices. A lot of space there. | 10:35 |
| psycho_oreos | mece, I'm talking about space for the chips to breathe, if there's no proper vents its like forcing you to work in a puny sweatshop | 10:35 |
| mece | I demoed bambuser on N900 today at a lecture today. | 10:35 |
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| mece | it's quite good. | 10:36 |
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| mece | like it much better thatn qik, (who went and sold out anyway) | 10:36 |
| mece | the course is a project course which is the same one where the original bambuser protocols were first created, incidentally :) | 10:36 |
| TiagoTiago | the whole device is kinda dense though, for it's size it's kinda heavy | 10:37 |
| mece | TiagoTiago, it's manly :) | 10:37 |
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| TiagoTiago | lol | 10:37 |
| mece | did any of you watch the bbc mini "Sherlock"? | 10:37 |
| mece | I think watson had an N900 | 10:37 |
| noaXess | someone work with funambol and nokia n900? syncevolution? | 10:37 |
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| TiagoTiago | 102 files left, will it jump to 4 digits again? 0.0 | 10:46 |
| crashanddie | mece: eh? | 10:46 |
| TiagoTiago | 75 | 10:46 |
| TiagoTiago | we don't get that type of BBC over here, only the news variation | 10:47 |
| TiagoTiago | i wish i had one of those FLIR cameras to see how the N900 heats up and how it dissipates heat better | 10:49 |
| TiagoTiago | it's quite hot after more than an hour transfering files over wifi while plugged int he charger.... | 10:49 |
| psycho_oreos | its usually hot around the camera area afaik | 10:50 |
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| TiagoTiago | its hot all over | 10:51 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah but its hotter around the camera area for me imo | 10:53 |
| TiagoTiago | it's done, now to reflash it | 10:58 |
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| TiagoTiago | Nokia should start testing the limits of overclocking of their new devices, and always make sure the chips can handle at least 50% over the clock covered by the warranty, that will make people like Nokia even more | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | well they did and warned people | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:03 |
| TiagoTiago | wait, it was supposed to handle 50% over 600MHz? | 11:03 |
| RST38h | Dumb idea, sorry | 11:03 |
| X-Fade | If the cpu could run on 1Ghz without issues, don't you think it would have been the default? | 11:04 |
| RST38h | If the chip manufacturer tells you that they only guarantee correct operation up to frequency X, you either believe them or risk Trouble | 11:04 |
| TiagoTiago | there still the risk it would eventually fail | 11:05 |
| psycho_oreos | the same goes with every other chips basically, if you overclocking you take all sorts of matters into your own hands | 11:05 |
| RST38h | In fact, even if the bloody manufacturer guarantees you frequency X, it is still not given that their SoC will work at that frequency | 11:05 |
| RST38h | Tiago: Not that | 11:05 |
| TiagoTiago | like how they test the phones under desert and artic conditions etc | 11:05 |
| RST38h | There is a much higher risk than once you start writing high perf code for this chip, your code will inexplicably fail | 11:05 |
| RST38h | Memory interface timing issue. Has not been caught by the manufacturer. Too late now. You are fucked. | 11:06 |
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| RST38h | (and yes, I have got these more than once) | 11:06 |
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| * mece is a little tired of the whole oc discussion. It's all very 'meh'. | 11:07 | |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:07 |
| TiagoTiago | Making sure your devices can handle way more than what is covered by the warranty without issues would be a huge money saver cause you won't need to replace for free so many devices, and people will like you better for making your devices tough | 11:08 |
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| RST38h | Tiago: Wrong answer, sorry. | 11:08 |
| frals | morning Jaffa | 11:08 |
| X-Fade | TiagoTiago: They could also just lock you out and be sure it doesn't get overclocked. | 11:08 |
| X-Fade | TiagoTiago: What would you rather have? :) | 11:08 |
| TiagoTiago | nah, that makes people not like you | 11:08 |
| crashanddie | TiagoTiago: so basically what you're saying is "Nokia should underclock the devices they sell -- potentially ruining the experience for the general population, so that a bunch of idiots can feel their e-peen grow as they overclock their device?" | 11:08 |
| psycho_oreos | and if it doesn't take more criticisms just because its stated that you're not supposed to deregulate what was written in the manual? | 11:08 |
| jani | <tinfoilhat> well, there are cases that chipmakers will do just one chip to cut the costs and then sell the same chip with multiple specs</tinfoilhat> | 11:08 |
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| frals | if you now the chip can run at a higher frequence im pretty sure every manufacturer out there would label it with the higher freq... | 11:09 |
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| frals | s/now/know/ | 11:09 |
| infobot | frals meant: if you know the chip can run at a higher frequence im pretty sure every manufacturer out there would label it with the higher freq... | 11:09 |
| mece | aaha <tinfoilhat> ftw! | 11:09 |
| TiagoTiago | the other day here someone told me Nokia tests phones under desert and artic conditions, that surelly can't be covered by the warranty | 11:09 |
| X-Fade | If you would have read the actual specs of the cpu, you see the interesting MTBF table. | 11:09 |
| RST38h | This has nothing to do with cpu clock speed | 11:09 |
| psycho_oreos | but they are nokia test phones not consumer phones | 11:09 |
| frals | TiagoTiago: operating conditions covered by warranty are listed on box/in manual afaik | 11:10 |
| TiagoTiago | i woudln't expect Earth's extreme climates to be covered | 11:10 |
| RST38h | But enough other people would | 11:10 |
| crashanddie | TiagoTiago: actually, it's far more likely that use in the desert/arctic shouldn't damage the device, and would be covered by warranty, rather than overclock the shit out of it | 11:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | this again? | 11:10 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: TiagoTiago is being an idiot | 11:10 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Getting newbies all the time here | 11:10 |
| TiagoTiago | that is why i only said 50% over and not an order of magnitude above | 11:11 |
| jani | big bad boys have told me that some desktop cpu's are sold like that. not like all but in same cases, overclockers usually hunt down certain patch numbers of certain chips cuz they have been verified to be "better" than advertized where as chip sold with same but but maybe from different factory or patch, its not "as good". | 11:11 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: And they are all pretty predictable, too | 11:11 |
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| * MohammadAG51 doesn't scroll up | 11:11 | |
| crashanddie | jani: not patch, you're thinking WBN | 11:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | lemme guess | 11:11 |
| crashanddie | jani: "Week Build Number" | 11:11 |
| *** florian_kc is now known as florian | 11:11 | |
| MohammadAG51 | 600MHz is an underclock cause nokia are idiots | 11:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | the "community" knows what's best | 11:12 |
| jani | well, wrong term but that was what i was referring to. | 11:12 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: close, "Nokia should ensure that people can overclock their device by 50% safely" | 11:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | 1.7GHz ftw | 11:12 |
| RST38h | Ah, the length some people would go to due to the lack of social life... | 11:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, uh | 11:12 |
| TiagoTiago | at least int he laboratory they would verify it doesn't add any risk, but of course, ti woudln't be covered int he warranty | 11:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | so underclock to less than 600MHz so users can overclock to 600? | 11:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | that's... retarded | 11:13 |
| crashanddie | TiagoTiago: did you study to be this stupid? | 11:13 |
| psycho_oreos | overclockers should always prepare a large wad of cash to ooze such things at and shouldn't complain if their overclocked device fries | 11:13 |
| *** eMHa_ has joined #maemo | 11:13 | |
| * MohammadAG51 has a suggestion | 11:13 | |
| psycho_oreos | that's the part and parcel you have to take for being stupid | 11:13 |
| crashanddie | especially when you consider that most of the these discussions, be them overclocking desktop CPUs or mobile phones are based on nothing scientific, but rather just, in best case scenarios, "educated hunches" | 11:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | whenever overclocking is mentioned, let the user keep yapping and ignore the discussion | 11:13 |
| crashanddie | if that | 11:13 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: yeah, or +q | 11:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | wfm | 11:14 |
| psycho_oreos | only ops have power to +q, normal users can only /ignore :) | 11:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, is an op | 11:14 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o psycho_oreos | 11:14 | |
| crashanddie | go ahead | 11:14 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o psycho_oreos | 11:14 | |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 11:14 |
| TiagoTiago | ok, i guess i see your point, yeah, it would be quite difficult to be able to achieve those results without the overclock actually being regular clock | 11:14 |
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| TiagoTiago | hm, the backup didn't trigger any installation, where are all my apps? | 11:15 |
| psycho_oreos | too quick, I don't even have a script to do that anyway, but *shrugs* | 11:15 |
| TiagoTiago | it oppened HAM but then nothign happened | 11:15 |
| crashanddie | who needs a script? | 11:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | /mkick ftw | 11:15 |
| psycho_oreos | grep the target :) | 11:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | (don't do that) | 11:15 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, operation in progress, ok | 11:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | seriously, don't | 11:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | m=mass | 11:16 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: nobody's an op | 11:16 |
| psycho_oreos | chanserv can also clear the channel if needed be | 11:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, you don't know what op might wanna try it :P | 11:16 |
| crashanddie | Irssi: Unknown command: mkick | 11:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | xchat only | 11:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | it kicks everyone | 11:16 |
| crashanddie | lame | 11:17 |
| crashanddie | easier to +m the channel | 11:17 |
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| MohammadAG51 | well, it works in certain scenarios | 11:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | like when moving channels | 11:17 |
| psycho_oreos | or channel takeovers | 11:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | +i the channel, mkick | 11:18 |
| crashanddie | psycho_oreos: no, chanserv doesn't "clear" the channel. recover allows you to remove the bans that affect a specific op, deop everyone else, mute the channel, let you join and auto-op you when you join | 11:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | psycho_oreos, glines ftw, well... at least on private servers | 11:18 |
| psycho_oreos | crashanddie, o.O ok maybe not on this services, but I believe there was on others, can't remember which | 11:18 |
| crashanddie | which is a lot more effective than any kind of mass-kick which is just silly | 11:19 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG51, lol glines require oper powers or in this case staff | 11:19 |
| crashanddie | the whole point about having a channel with people is to keep them there | 11:19 |
| merlin1991 | hm can you access the n900 file system on linux in pc suite mode like the gay phone browser you get on win then? | 11:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | psycho_oreos, that's why i said private severs ;) | 11:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | merlin1991, ifup usb0 | 11:19 |
| psycho_oreos | merlin1991, you can if you use usb networking and sshfs | 11:19 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG51, lol | 11:19 |
| merlin1991 | doh I hoped there would be another way :D | 11:20 |
| psycho_oreos | merlin1991, actually usb networking is optional, sshfs is mandatory | 11:20 |
| jacekowski | TiagoTiago: anyways, so what frequency you were using and for how long? | 11:20 |
| TiagoTiago | 900 for a few days | 11:20 |
| jacekowski | merlin1991: you can | 11:20 |
| merlin1991 | I bet I'll loose my 3g connection then though :D | 11:20 |
| merlin1991 | wish me luck | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | merlin1991: but you can do it in normal memory stick like mode | 11:21 |
| * TiagoTiago goes do some math to see if that is 50% over | 11:21 | |
| merlin1991 | but I want to transfer files now and I'm using it as a modem | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | TiagoTiago: it is | 11:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | it doesn't need epic math skills | 11:21 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, right | 11:21 |
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| jacekowski | but government would tell you it's onlu 33% | 11:21 |
| TiagoTiago | i'm not thinking straight | 11:21 |
| psycho_oreos | there's many ways, pc suite software over wine, pc suite software over windows inside vm, using another daemon like nfs, etc | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | it it would be tax | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | not frequency | 11:21 |
| TiagoTiago | should be sleeping, but stayed awake to try to fix things | 11:21 |
| TiagoTiago | hm, will it be a problem that a couple of the stuff the backup is restoring in HAM need rebooting? | 11:22 |
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| merlin1991 | hm I'm getting errors when using ifup usb0 and ifdown usb0 | 11:36 |
| johnx | ok | 11:36 |
| merlin1991 | ifup tells me /usr/lib/avahi/avahi-daemon-check-dns.sh: line 143: diff: not found | 11:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | ignore it | 11:36 |
| merlin1991 | but the interface gets up | 11:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | same here | 11:37 |
| merlin1991 | ifdown does the same + an errorline with sh: missing ] | 11:37 |
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| * merlin1991 wonders what the pw of the "user" user is | 11:42 | |
| jacekowski | why would anybody need pw for it | 11:43 |
| merlin1991 | I have no idea, just a thought :D | 11:43 |
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| merlin1991 | and now it's time for another newb question, anyone got a link to a tutorial on coding c using glib? | 11:44 |
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| TiagoTiago | gotta give nokia the props though, even after i messed up, it seems i don't even need to to send my N900 to a repair shop to fix things, i'm doing it myself, and i don't even need a screwdriver :D | 11:44 |
| crashanddie | merlin1991: google does | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | merlin1991: by the way, is 1991 your birth year? | 11:50 |
| TiagoTiago | crap, to install the backuped applicaitons int will use more memory than i have somehow | 11:50 |
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| merlin1991 | crashanddie, google had loads, one worse than the other, and jup it is | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | no, it can't be | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | kids born after 1990 can't talk | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | they're too young | 11:50 |
| merlin1991 | hehe | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | crap | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | I'm old | 11:50 |
| merlin1991 | atm I'm sitting @ the army base doing my mandatory service with a notebook, lol | 11:51 |
| crashanddie | I know some kid who was born on 1st January 2000 | 11:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | I think kids born after 1990 are more or less the i-gen or so I hope (yay, hopefully we can finally set a barrier for gen-y and i-gen) | 11:51 |
| crashanddie | bloody easy to remember his birthday (even though nobody ever celebrates it) | 11:51 |
| MiXu- | I feel so old | 11:51 |
| crashanddie | that's because you are | 11:52 |
| TiagoTiago | could be worse, he could have been born xmass morning | 11:52 |
| crashanddie | TiagoTiago: nha, that's fine | 11:52 |
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| crashanddie | TiagoTiago: imagine when you're 18, everyone gets wasted at 31st december around 23:30 | 11:52 |
| crashanddie | then everyone starts yapping about "Happy new year" | 11:52 |
| crashanddie | and nobody wishes you a happy birthday -- they're all puking | 11:53 |
| merlin1991 | so crashanddie maybe you have a nice url for me? | 11:53 |
| MiXu- | crashanddie: lol | 11:53 |
| TiagoTiago | kids born that time often don't get birthday gifts, and the gifts they get are less expensive cause everyone is buying everyone gifts | 11:53 |
| crashanddie | merlin1991: maybe, but you're not going to like it | 11:53 |
| merlin1991 | perfect then, share it | 11:53 |
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| TiagoTiago | gonna unisntall everything and then restore first the essentials fromt he backup, and only then gradually reinstall stuff | 11:54 |
| crashanddie | merlin1991: http://tinyurl.com/ylhz9x6 | 11:55 |
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| johnx | merlin1991, protip: antagonizing crashanddie will not get you what you want | 11:55 |
| johnx | hmmm brownout here. guess that means bedtime | 11:56 |
| TiagoTiago | good luck | 11:56 |
| crashanddie | johnx: night mate | 11:56 |
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| TiagoTiago | i guess 'ill be goign too, the sun is rising again.... | 11:57 |
| TiagoTiago | cya | 11:59 |
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| alterego | If only Nokia would open source that new gas balls app :/ | 12:18 |
| alterego | I really want to write my own :) | 12:18 |
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| MohammadAG | gas balls? | 12:19 |
| MohammadAG | wtf | 12:19 |
| alterego | Think I might have to look into reversing it today, I know it's using gles | 12:19 |
| kerio | gas balls? | 12:19 |
| kerio | :| | 12:19 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: it's a relly nice pretty app that can run as a desktop background. | 12:19 |
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| kerio | oh, it's not fart-related | 12:19 |
| alterego | Much better than the one thnat's being developed in maemo at the moment. | 12:20 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, err, no one farts from their balls | 12:20 |
| alterego | Hahah | 12:20 |
| kerio | but in zero-gravity, you fart gas balls | 12:20 |
| alterego | It's on Ovi, check it out, it's really pretty :) | 12:20 |
| * MohammadAG apt-gets gas-balls | 12:20 | |
| alterego | And free, developed byu "Nokia" but not open :/ | 12:21 |
| * kerio gets his nokia-bashing suit | 12:21 | |
| MohammadAG | heh | 12:23 |
| MohammadAG | widgets move, background doesn't | 12:23 |
| MohammadAG | the way live-bg should do it | 12:23 |
| alterego | You think it's a widget? | 12:23 |
| * hrw played with Qt Creator - nice IDE | 12:24 | |
| alterego | hrw: yeah, I use it quite a lot now. | 12:25 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, it's not a widget, that's for sure | 12:25 |
| hrw | too bad that Qt Simulator does not have proper Maemo widgets emulation | 12:25 |
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| alterego | yeah, looks like a new layer just above the root window | 12:26 |
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| alterego | hrw: too bad it doesn't have a lot of proper emulation, the only thing I found it particulalry useful for was QtQuick | 12:26 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, it sees widgets | 12:27 |
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| alterego | Yeah, I know technically how to do all of that | 12:28 |
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| alterego | It's the main window I want to create though :) | 12:29 |
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| RST38h | wazd: cool =) | 14:59 |
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| wazd | lcuk: what about 1 pixel cycling days? :D | 15:01 |
| kke | sometimes my n900 has this "slide this slider to unlock" -thing when i pull it out of my pocket, where does that come from? proximity sensor? | 15:01 |
| merlin1991 | top button | 15:02 |
| merlin1991 | the one to switch on and of | 15:02 |
| achipa | X-Fade: ping | 15:02 |
| kerio | that you also use to lock | 15:02 |
| kke | i lock using the lock-switch | 15:02 |
| kerio | (the sliding button is awkward to use for me) | 15:02 |
| MohammadAG | kke, double press the power key | 15:03 |
| lcuk | wazd, great idea, but thats only needed on small displays :P | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG | what's the lockscreen app? | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG | err, binary | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG | the old PR1.0 one had a transition | 15:03 |
| MohammadAG | when you unlock the device | 15:03 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: really? what sort of transition? | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG | it fades down | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG | instead of disappearing all of a sudden | 15:11 |
| MohammadAG | trying to find a video | 15:11 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9tIZwJV6w ? | 15:12 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: indeed there is a small transition, but I can see it only on the "swipe to unlock" screen | 15:13 |
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| Venemo | nah, I have to go now | 15:18 |
| Venemo | goodbye | 15:18 |
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| defragger | does anybody already used the mame emulator on maemo? | 15:21 |
| defragger | where do i have to put the roms into? | 15:21 |
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| kerio | wireless headphones ^_^ | 15:30 |
| pigeon | defragger: by default it looks at ~/MyDocs/roms and /media/mmc1/roms/ | 15:31 |
| pigeon | defragger: i.e. roms/ folder either on the internal flash or micro sd card | 15:31 |
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| defragger | pigeon: thanks, my failure was a not working rom :) | 15:33 |
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| KaKaRoTo | MohammadAG, salam | 15:34 |
| MohammadAG | yo :) | 15:34 |
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| KaKaRoTo | MohammadAG, ok.. what did you want me to say now ? | 15:35 |
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| MohammadAG | that you got the PS Jailbreak working? :) | 15:36 |
| KaKaRoTo | oh yeah, right | 15:36 |
| KaKaRoTo | the news : PSJailbreak working from the N900!!!! | 15:36 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, o_0 | 15:36 |
| KaKaRoTo | will release it soon... (now.. or when I wake up...) | 15:36 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, awesome | 15:37 |
| xnt14 | :) | 15:37 |
| MNZ | wow! nice work KaKaRoTo! | 15:37 |
| xnt14 | now only if I had my ps3 with me... | 15:37 |
| KaKaRoTo | thanks | 15:37 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, won't your blog explode with all the hits? | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 15:37 |
| KaKaRoTo | I hope not... | 15:37 |
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| xnt14 | hmm | 15:38 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, whats it hosted on? | 15:38 |
| KaKaRoTo | we'll see | 15:38 |
| MNZ | some one should digg it ;) | 15:38 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, my home linux server | 15:38 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, if it does, I can mirror it for you if you want... :) | 15:38 |
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| kerio | OMG WTF BBQ PS3 JAILBROKEN | 15:40 |
| KaKaRoTo | guys.. find me a name for the project! | 15:41 |
| KaKaRoTo | for now it's psjailbreak, but that's not good enough.. | 15:41 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, hmm | 15:41 |
| KaKaRoTo | I was thinking of ps3brew... | 15:41 |
| KaKaRoTo | anyone have a better idea ? (I suck at names) | 15:41 |
| xnt14 | does it have to be related to the ps3? | 15:41 |
| xnt14 | the name I mean | 15:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Playstation Software Easily! Or Psseasy. | 15:41 |
| KaKaRoTo | SpeedEvil, ok, no more names from you :p | 15:42 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, preferebly, yes... | 15:42 |
| xnt14 | lol | 15:42 |
| xnt14 | hmm | 15:42 |
| KaKaRoTo | FYI, it's a linux kernel driver, so it's not maemo specific | 15:42 |
| KaKaRoTo | it could be used for android or palm or whatever... | 15:42 |
| kerio | sssh | 15:42 |
| kerio | don't tell them that | 15:42 |
| KaKaRoTo | lol | 15:43 |
| kerio | maem0wned | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Are there other uses? | 15:43 |
| Duckboot | ps1337 | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - is it simply for the crack? | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Or could it be meaningfully used in orther scenarios | 15:43 |
| kerio | it's not a crack | 15:43 |
| xnt14 | PSFree? | 15:43 |
| kerio | it's arbitrary code running | 15:43 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, PSFree is good... but is it better than PS3Brew ? | 15:43 |
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| kerio | KaKaRoTo: DO YOU HATE JEWS SON | 15:44 |
| KaKaRoTo | kerio, yes, why ? :p | 15:44 |
| kerio | :< | 15:44 |
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| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, hmm, no how about PSBrewFree? | 15:45 |
| KaKaRoTo | hard to pronounce | 15:46 |
| KaKaRoTo | bah, forget it | 15:46 |
| Duckboot | Pssst then | 15:46 |
| kerio | PS3WNED | 15:46 |
| kerio | SonyBiteMyAss | 15:47 |
| xnt14 | lol | 15:47 |
| KaKaRoTo | ps3ix :) | 15:47 |
| psycho_oreos | sory | 15:47 |
| kerio | S0wned | 15:47 |
| MNZ | SBAS! | 15:47 |
| MNZ | I like that | 15:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Wiinot. | 15:47 |
| xnt14 | PSFreedom | 15:47 |
| xnt14 | sounds good IMO | 15:47 |
| MNZ | PS3eedom | 15:47 |
| kerio | ps3-jailbreak | 15:47 |
| xnt14 | MNZ, o_0 ? | 15:48 |
| psycho_oreos | de-lame-ps3 | 15:48 |
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| Duckboot | What about: Pubes | 15:48 |
| MNZ | xnt14, it rhymes with PSFreedom! | 15:48 |
| kerio | YouFeltSmartWhenYouRemovedOtherOSEhSony | 15:48 |
| xnt14 | MNZ, ah :P | 15:48 |
| xnt14 | kerio, lol :) | 15:48 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, I think i'll go with ps3free | 15:49 |
| Duckboot | PS3some | 15:49 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, well PSFreedom sounds better... | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG | WOHOOO | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG | this stuff works :D | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG | Thanks KaKaRoTo, epic work :) | 15:51 |
| xnt14 | MohammadAG, you have it? | 15:52 |
| kerio | dammit, my wireless headphones suck | 15:52 |
| kerio | :8 | 15:52 |
| kerio | the sound is clipped on the high frequencies | 15:52 |
| kerio | is this an artefact of the A2SP? | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG | xnt14, wait for KaKaRoTo's release ;) | 15:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Duckboot: Re - Pubes - I like the way you think - do you have a newsletter or magazine I may subscribe to? | 15:53 |
| xnt14 | MohammadAG, k :( | 15:53 |
| KaKaRoTo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_q63x1tbU | 15:53 |
| KaKaRoTo | ok, maybe (probably) I suck at making videos... | 15:53 |
| Duckboot | SpeedEvil: ;-P | 15:54 |
| Duckboot | SpeedEvil: http://www.allyoucanread.com/top-10-teen-magazines/ | 15:55 |
| kerio | yay, it's just OSX being an asshole | 15:55 |
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| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, hmm, problem is that you can't see what actually happened... | 15:56 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, yeah, I know | 15:56 |
| Duckboot | kerio: It's a relic from when Steve Jobs programmed his own personality in the OS | 15:56 |
| KaKaRoTo | ok, I'll skip the video until tomorrow, then i'll make a better one | 15:56 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, whats your timezone btw? | 15:56 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, it's 9AM here | 15:59 |
| KaKaRoTo | and by tomorrow, I mean today.. but when I wake up.. | 15:59 |
| KaKaRoTo | and after work... | 15:59 |
| xnt14 | ah... k | 15:59 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, San Fran? | 16:00 |
| xnt14 | oh, nevermind | 16:00 |
| KaKaRoTo | montreal | 16:00 |
| KaKaRoTo | canada | 16:00 |
| xnt14 | ah, ok, I'm in NY btw | 16:01 |
| xnt14 | oh, I fail, I'm looking at other clocks, but not my own :P | 16:01 |
| GAN900 | If we don't get enough nomination for the community council election, we have to postpone the election by a month. | 16:02 |
| GAN900 | So get out there and nominate. | 16:02 |
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| drizztbsd | hi KaKaRoTo! | 16:08 |
| ShadowJK | well if there arent enough nominees, the elction can be skipped | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a list of eligable people? | 16:08 |
| drizztbsd | so do you want to release it today (i'm on gmt+2) | 16:09 |
| drizztbsd | ? | 16:09 |
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| drizztbsd | I tried the other hack (ps3pwn) for n900 omap, but it doesn't work (for the usb otg problem) | 16:10 |
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| FIQ|n900 | not the best question to ask here, but is there any svn application (cli or gui, both works fine for me) | 16:10 |
| drizztbsd | svn for n900? | 16:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | ? - apt-cache search svn gives nothing | 16:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | -enter | 16:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | svn client yes | 16:11 |
| drizztbsd | yes, but it's in extras-devel | 16:11 |
| h4waii | subversion is the package name. | 16:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | ah, it's fine | 16:11 |
| drizztbsd | apt-get install subversion | 16:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | h4waii, ah | 16:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | ty | 16:11 |
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| * drizztbsd wants official ipv6 support | 16:14 | |
| kerio | how official? | 16:15 |
| drizztbsd | microb, email application, etc | 16:15 |
| drizztbsd | I know I can use titan kernel, but only with firefox (and maybe opera) | 16:15 |
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| kerio | huh? | 16:16 |
| kerio | you can use ipv6 with microb too | 16:16 |
| kerio | it's in about:config | 16:16 |
| drizztbsd | oh, ok | 16:16 |
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| crashanddie | who was the nutjob going on about encryption on the N900? | 16:19 |
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| xnt14 | why does my volume increment if I mash the keyboard on the N900? | 16:20 |
| MNZ | crashanddie, tobis87 | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | MNZ: thanks | 16:21 |
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| KaKaRoTo | released ! | 16:22 |
| KaKaRoTo | http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/2010/09/psfreedom-jailbreak-ps3-with-n900-worked-finished-and-released/ | 16:22 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, :D | 16:22 |
| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, :) you used my name | 16:23 |
| xnt14 | :) | 16:23 |
| xnt14 | thanks | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | xnt14: At a guess - the keyboard matrix is not n-key-rollover friendly, and the volume keys are part of rthe keyboard matrix | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | xnt14: this can also be seen by shift-blue-k | 16:23 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, yep | 16:23 |
| xnt14 | SpeedEvil, k | 16:23 |
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| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, now only if I wasn't at work, or if I had brought my PS3 with me... | 16:24 |
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| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, :p | 16:24 |
| KaKaRoTo | now if only I wasn't dead, I could use what I spent the week working on | 16:25 |
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| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, I would walk home, but its a long way.. | 16:25 |
| KaKaRoTo | xnt14, if it's any consolation, I won't be able to use it either, until tomorrow :p | 16:25 |
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| xnt14 | KaKaRoTo, k, thanks :P | 16:26 |
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| pekuja | sorry if this is not appropriate for this channel, but is there a way to find out how long a previously made phone call was? | 16:26 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, dneary posted one on the list, I believe. | 16:27 |
| * KaKaRoTo gets flooded in two channels now.. | 16:27 | |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, indeed, however I don't believe that's a good plan. | 16:27 |
| pekuja | the call history only seems to tell me when the call happened and who called whom | 16:27 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, well let's just vote for one candidate then | 16:27 |
| ShadowJK | or something | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | last person standing turns off the lights and servers | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:27 |
| pigeon | hmm, KaKaRoTo, isn't that dragon ball... | 16:28 |
| KaKaRoTo | pigeon, yep | 16:28 |
| pigeon | excellent :) | 16:28 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, not nearly as funny as it sounds. | 16:28 |
| crashanddie | KaKaRoTo: nice work. Thanks. | 16:29 |
| KaKaRoTo | thx | 16:29 |
| crashanddie | KaKaRoTo: what does it enable, exactly? | 16:29 |
| * KaKaRoTo needs to stop thanking those who thank me.. and go to sleep | 16:29 | |
| KaKaRoTo | crashanddie, enable installation of homebrew applications on the PS3 | 16:29 |
| tank-man | ability to run unsigned code i think | 16:29 |
| crashanddie | so should I expect to see cheating bastards crowd the servers these days? | 16:30 |
| KaKaRoTo | it emulates a modchip that uses an exploit on the usb hub driver of the ps3 | 16:30 |
| tobis87 | MNZ: yes? | 16:30 |
| crashanddie | so it's the same/reverse engineered stuff as what those aussies released? | 16:30 |
| KaKaRoTo | crashanddie, nah, they're all in #ps3dev on EFNet... | 16:30 |
| KaKaRoTo | crashanddie, MohammadAG asked me to announce it here.. he was talking to me about possible kernel patches... | 16:30 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, turn the lights off by all means, but we need to keep the server running | 16:30 |
| KaKaRoTo | but in the end, I did it without the need to patch/flash the kernel | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, no cheating bastards yet | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | any banned bastards yet? | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG | I didn't sign in | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | I have 2 PS3s, so I can afford to have one banned... But it would be crap though | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG | anyone up for setting up an alternate PSN? :P | 16:32 |
| MNZ | tobis87, nothing, crashanddie was asking about the person doing all that encryption stuff | 16:32 |
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| crashanddie | tobis87: if you want to achieve pretty decent security, there's a manufacturer who released microSD cards with a smartcard component | 16:32 |
| dneary | hmmm... empathy problems. Switching to pidgin | 16:32 |
| crashanddie | tobis87: which means that they have a hardware crypto-processor, and are physically secure to resist tampering | 16:32 |
| crashanddie | tobis87: I have one, and I've compiled the driver for it, been playing with it a bit for the past year or two (I had access to an R&D version) | 16:33 |
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| crashanddie | tobis87: apparently they're freely available these days. You can load your PKI keys on them, and use that to encrypt the filesystem | 16:33 |
| tobis87 | well, my point is to get everything working which the n900 could do, don't want to buy something, if it is already there, but not used | 16:34 |
| KaKaRoTo | gn | 16:34 |
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| crashanddie | because they also have about 1 or 2GB of storage, you could technically make the N900 boot from the SD card, and then decrypt using the on-board keys | 16:34 |
| crashanddie | (using a PIN code to unlock the carD) | 16:34 |
| crashanddie | it works using a streaming file on the SD card, you write commands to it, and they are interpreted by the card | 16:35 |
| tobis87 | the driver is very new, it is only two weeks old, so I should calm down a little bit, i could have expected it to not work yet | 16:35 |
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| tobis87 | we should make a list of components the n900 has build in, which are not used: eg. the crypto stuff, the audio chip which could be used for hardware mixing and so on. | 16:37 |
| MNZ | tobis87, that information is in the wiki hardware articles | 16:37 |
| tobis87 | it does even support des acceleration, but no driver yet | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get install john-the-ripper | 16:38 |
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| drizztbsd | KaKaRoTo: do you enable also the backup launcher? | 16:39 |
| drizztbsd | and can you release the sourcecode? so I can port it to webos and/or android :) | 16:40 |
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| tobis87 | yeah, i know it could be broken fast, but why does the kernel has buildin des? there has to be some use, and this could get accelerated... | 16:40 |
| SpeedEvil | The kernel has builtin encryption modules of all sorts. | 16:41 |
| crashanddie | tobis87: OTP | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Some of which are cryptographically weak at the moment. | 16:41 |
| crashanddie | tobis87: most OTP algorithms are loosely based on DES or 3DES | 16:41 |
| drizztbsd | KaKaRoTo: or to titan kernel | 16:41 |
| tobis87 | MNZ: where http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N900_Hardware ? | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: There isn't unfortunately a central list of missing features. | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: I noted it on eack page as I wrote it. | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | each | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Generally. | 16:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I see the CPU page is actually missing the note of encryption | 16:43 |
| tobis87 | i don't mean features, i mean hardware, which lies there idle and unused | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | tobis87: 3DES keys still require a few hours to be broken, and OTPs are only valid for mere seconds, and the key is immediately regenerated | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | that's what I mean - hardware features that are unused | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Audio_Codec | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Unutilised functions | 16:44 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: question is how usefull that data will be to attacker later | 16:45 |
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| tobb | KaKaRoTo: what kernel is it built for? Mine disagrees about version of symbol struct_module | 16:45 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: how so? | 16:45 |
| jacekowski | i mean in general any encryption will just delay when attacker gets plaintext | 16:46 |
| jacekowski | and whole point is to delay it beyond when it's still usable for attacker | 16:46 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: which is exactly what I explained '[-_-] | 16:46 |
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| jacekowski | but you have to assume that attacker may get lucky | 16:46 |
| jacekowski | and get correct key with first try | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | no, you don't. | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you also assume for insurance purposes that your house may be hit by a meteorite? | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure - it's happened to one person. | 16:48 |
| obsidieth | so uh. | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Does that mean it's worthwhile insuring against - probably not. | 16:48 |
| obsidieth | im getting a lot of 'audio codec not supported' when i try and play movies. | 16:48 |
| obsidieth | is there a codec pack avaliable. | 16:48 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: OTP is generated, you have 1m32s to use it. After that, it's no use to anyone. you only have a tiny bit of information, and from that you need to deduce the 3DES private key, the secret, the salt, the decay timer, the time counter and the event counter... All that from maximum 10 random digits... | 16:48 |
| lcuk | my house was hit be a meteorite you insensitive clod | 16:48 |
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| * luke-jr has meteorite insurance… | 16:48 | |
| tobis87 | i don't want to use 3des or des, i have just noted that there is support for it (des_ick in kernel-2.6.28/arch/arm/mach-omap2/clock24xx.h) and I'm not that mad at crypto, otp is unusable in practice... | 16:48 |
| crashanddie | wtf | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | OTP is not unusable. | 16:49 |
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| crashanddie | OTP is unusable in practice? Where the hell do you live mate? | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | OTP is quite adequate for many apps. | 16:49 |
| tobis87 | for small messages | 16:49 |
| luke-jr | I agree that OTP is fairly useless | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially given that carrying around a dozen gigabyte pad is now no longer an issue. | 16:49 |
| lcuk | rot13 is quite adequate for many apps also | 16:49 |
| Termana | :P | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially as you can pop it out, and chew it up. | 16:49 |
| tobis87 | but, how do want to encrypt a harddrive? the key would have to have the same size | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: I think they don't want to understand the use, quite frankly | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | tobis87: lolwut? | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | OTP is the one provable secure crypto system. | 16:50 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: what's the use, then? | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Any others in principle can be broken by advances in technology. | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: bank access, vpn access, basically, any kind of authentication. | 16:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | With OTP - once you've thrown away the pad - there is no theoretical way the conversation can be deduced. | 16:51 |
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| luke-jr | O.o | 16:51 |
| luke-jr | maybe I'm thinking of something else | 16:51 |
| lcuk | tobis87, different uses of encryption, sure a otp will be useless for hard drive long term storage | 16:51 |
| lcuk | but the guys have just given many examples where it is practical | 16:51 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: no, it won't | 16:51 |
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| luke-jr | what's the non-standard "encryption" in Pidgin? | 16:51 |
| tobis87 | Each bit or character from the plaintext is encrypted by a modular addition with a bit or character from a secret random key (or pad) of the same length as the plaintext, resulting in a ciphertext. | 16:51 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: OTP would be perfectly adapted for hard drive encryption | 16:52 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: heck, the MET Police, and the US government use it exactly for that | 16:52 |
| crashanddie | I should know, I fucking implemented the systems | 16:52 |
| crashanddie | and when I say US government, I mean US DoD. | 16:52 |
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| xnt14 | crashanddie, implemented what? | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | the bootloader includes an OTP validation system, which secures the private key (this can be an HSM of any sort, big bulky hardware or smartcard) used to encrypt the hard drive | 16:53 |
| lcuk | I thought the key aspect of a OTP was that it was used one time | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Basically RAID, but with a OTP disk? | 16:53 |
| lcuk | storing it on a postit note to use later | 16:53 |
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| lcuk | isnt really otp | 16:53 |
| crashanddie | you authenticate to the system, which unlocks the private key, deduces a session key and you're good to go | 16:54 |
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| crashanddie | well, OTP is just the key, which is all OTP has always been | 16:54 |
| lcuk | right, so the otp guards the real "fixed" keys rather than being used for the encryption on the drive itself | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | whether you unlock a website, your phone or a hard drive makes no difference whatsoever | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: hard drive encryption *never* uses an private key provided to the user | 16:55 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: you always have something that unlocks the "real fixed keys" | 16:55 |
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| crashanddie | whether that's a password, a private key, whatever | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | the fixed keys never leave the hard drive, frankly | 16:56 |
| crashanddie | and if they do, you're bound to be pwned | 16:56 |
| crashanddie | this works with hardware or software hard drive encryption | 16:56 |
| lcuk | reasonable | 16:57 |
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| lcuk | tobis87, did you get any input in your original quesiton by the way | 16:57 |
| lcuk | question | 16:57 |
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| crashanddie | heck, some seagate drives even re-encrypt the drive on the fly when you've "decrypted it" by inputting your auth, so that a cold boot attack would be useless (or virtually useless) | 16:57 |
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| tobis87 | lcuk: which question? about the dma burst modes? these are no different modes, but the size of the burst differs, nah i think i have to wait until the mantainer of the driver has time, i have however posted it on maemo-devel | 17:02 |
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| tobis87 | lcuk: this hardware flaw could however be releated: https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/29760/ | 17:03 |
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| luke-jr | [08:56:20] <crashanddie> the fixed keys never leave the hard drive, frankly | 17:04 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: not even to the kernel, for software encryption? | 17:04 |
| lcuk | tobis87, that would be: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/n900_aes_and_sha1-md5_hw_acceleration_drivers/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nemein_discussion_posts_page=1#edd23ba0b75211df835eef346cfc21582158 | 17:04 |
| lcuk | "N900 AES and SHA1/MD5 hw acceleration drivers" | 17:05 |
| lcuk | I gather | 17:05 |
| tobis87 | yes | 17:05 |
| lcuk | it just helps to keep them together :) a big chunk of encryption talk followed by some of the work you are doing may help others interested and capable looking :) | 17:05 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: well, if you have a hardware-encrypted hard drive, no. In software, obviously it goes through the CPU, no idea where it goes through in terms of kernel though. | 17:06 |
| dneary | GAN900, You called? | 17:06 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: I was more thinking in terms of leaving the box. If your box is pwned to the point where you have access to the CPU/kernel registers, then any kind of encryption will be cracked in due time | 17:07 |
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| GAN900 | dneary, was telling SpeedEvil you posted a eligible candidate list somewhere. | 17:09 |
| dneary | Yup | 17:09 |
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| dneary | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q3_2010/Eligible_candidates | 17:09 |
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| luke-jr | I'm not eligible⁈⁈ :< | 17:10 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: are you running again? | 17:12 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, god no. | 17:15 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: that's pretty cool, that quickflickr thing | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: nominate abill_uk | 17:15 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: seriously good looking and seamless! | 17:15 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps++ | 17:15 |
| crashanddie | is randy running again? | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | Nominate me | 17:16 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, yeah it looks like an awesome app | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | jk xD | 17:16 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, dunno if he's decided. | 17:16 |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG, nominate yourself. | 17:16 |
| crashanddie | I thought you had to be 18+ to run for candidate? | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | why should I | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | <GAN900> crashanddie, god no. | 17:17 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: to do your duty | 17:17 |
| crashanddie | woops | 17:17 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG: to do your duty | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | I heard the army's better | 17:17 |
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| crashanddie | well | 17:17 |
| crashanddie | you don't get nokia goodies in the army | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | you get taliban goodies | 17:18 |
| lcuk | depends which army :P | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia goodies like what? | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | well | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | PR1.3? they can keep it | 17:18 |
| * lcuk slaps you | 17:18 | |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG: funding for Dublin :D | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, they can keep that too :P | 17:18 |
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| crashanddie | bollocks | 17:18 |
| GAN900 | A devices and travel (sometimes) | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | if you got it, you'd so be in it | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: hey, you didn't travel because of the idiocy of the US burocracy | 17:19 |
| MohammadAG | I have school, I might skip 3 days and come, but not so sure after seeing what I have to study this year | 17:19 |
| crashanddie | it's balls that the con is 3 full weekdays | 17:20 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, well, I'm more noting who was and wasn't invited to LFCSSF | 17:20 |
| drizztbsd | n900 still alive! | 17:20 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, how about yourself | 17:20 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, we want to appeal to corporate people, though! | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | the con should've been from Fri till Sun tbh | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | imo* | 17:20 |
| drizztbsd | I charged the battery using a lab power source, current limited to 200mA and volt limited to 4.2v | 17:21 |
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| GAN900 | Even though the overwhelming majority of the registered attendees are unaffiliated. | 17:21 |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG, it should've | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: the community may be "Maemo Community", but it doesn't mean they're masochistic enough to elect me | 17:21 |
| GAN900 | But as with most things MeeGo, it's not FOR us. | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | How about we organise our own con? | 17:21 |
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| GAN900 | The MeeGo folks will, of course, retort with "well, you're welcome to arrange community days on the weekend." | 17:22 |
| lcuk | :) | 17:22 |
| GAN900 | "People even seem to be doing that as we speak!" | 17:22 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, stand. | 17:22 |
| GAN900 | Except they wont pay for it. | 17:22 |
| crashanddie | I'm serious, let's find an old crappy hotel with a big hall, on the brink of being torn down, and let's host our own event | 17:23 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, people are organizing community days. | 17:23 |
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| crashanddie | fuck community days | 17:23 |
| crashanddie | I'm not going to Dublin for MeeGo | 17:23 |
| GAN900 | I don't have the free funds to pay for the hotel and travel, though. | 17:23 |
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| crashanddie | I'm talking about a Maemo event | 17:23 |
| GAN900 | Ah, well then. | 17:23 |
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| GAN900 | Sounds like a very appropriate location plan. | 17:24 |
| crashanddie | that's why I'm talking about an old mushy hotel | 17:24 |
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| crashanddie | we're geeks, so except for the handful who have skin problems and dozens with asthma, we'll be fine -- we don't wash | 17:24 |
| crashanddie | so we don't even need hot water! | 17:25 |
| crashanddie | heck, WE DON'T NEED WATER! | 17:25 |
| crashanddie | Beer will do. | 17:25 |
| crashanddie | Let's get sponsorship from Heineken or Stella Artois | 17:25 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: see, even when I have ideas I believe in I can't remain serious... | 17:26 |
| crashanddie | I'm not made for politics. | 17:26 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: how much is a return trip in cattle class? | 17:26 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: about $1500? Maybe less if we find good dates | 17:27 |
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| crashanddie | Let's ask Skype and Adobe to help out | 17:27 |
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| crashanddie | Small donations, $1 or $2k | 17:27 |
| kurosu | Hi, is there a define to detect the maemo platform when building a C/C++ program ? | 17:27 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, liking the idea, is Israel a good place for the event? :P | 17:27 |
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| crashanddie | kurosu: test #ifdef MAEMO5 | 17:28 |
| crashanddie | kurosu: or #ifdef MAEMO | 17:29 |
| kurosu | crashanddie: perfect | 17:29 |
| crashanddie | kurosu: not sure if those work, test them before | 17:29 |
| kurosu | (also lol, a wrong clicking sent me to the #ifdef channel (which was defined but void) | 17:29 |
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| kurosu | crashanddie: this is for reference, i'm not the one building code for maemo | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | kurosu: there may also be #ifdef Q_WS_MAEMO5 (if coding with Qt) | 17:30 |
| lcuk | :) seb, before you continue your train of thought, go and nominate yourself. | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | no | 17:30 |
| GAN900 | I'm backing crashanddie here. | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | council is the best way to get out of touch with the community | 17:31 |
| GAN900 | Too much nonsense around here these days to run for council. | 17:31 |
| GAN900 | You'd really have to hate yourself. | 17:31 |
| crashanddie | you're stuck between hate, incomprehension and nokia burocracy | 17:31 |
| crashanddie | the council was a brilliant idea | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | and it still is | 17:32 |
| GAN900 | And Intel's now, too. | 17:32 |
| GAN900 | Which is even worse, somehow. | 17:32 |
| kurosu | crashanddie: anyway, I'd go otherwise with detection through the host var in a configure script | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | the problem is that as soon as the council announces something to the community where they have to reveal they've discussed with Nokia prior to opening up to the community, you get the whole "nokia whores" and "nokiapologisers" songs in chorus | 17:32 |
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| Stskeeps | the challenge is that maemo.org was, deep down a mix of a application developer community and power users. these seeked to be more involved in the system and decisions being made, slow progress being made, some not. system developers appeared (Mer), trying to organise to make a difference. then nokia and intel preempts the next 2 years of us waiting for things to open up and start from 100% open. system developers can move on easily ... | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | ... to meego as there's a OS to be developed. app developers come when there's a platform to run against. power users come when the platform and apps are there. problem and negativity stems from these phase changes where things got worked on to get ready. | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | while maemo.org council should have helped to prepare for the rush that will happen with the new influx of users and developers. but nothing was done. | 17:35 |
| kurosu | while I'm at it, is there a nicer API for vibrating than DBUS one, shown in http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/mce-dev/dbus-names_8h.html#8b9c9753aa3772ad5934ef0434daedce ? | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | just like we weren't prepared for the in rush of new users on tmo. | 17:35 |
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| lcuk | but then you have council members like Attila, digging in and working together between developers on the community and folks at other sides to actually improve things | 17:36 |
| lcuk | to fix real problems | 17:36 |
| lcuk | like the qt compatability in extras | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but do you need a council for someone to organise things? | 17:36 |
| lcuk | no, but it obviously helped to allow communication | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | in practice it has been the well-prepared proposals by organising individuals that has gotten somewhere. | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | worst part is some people's extreme tunnel vision. | 17:38 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, prepare how? | 17:38 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, maemo.org is being slowly mothballed. | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | the council didn't help anything with the qt-dependancy screw-up | 17:38 |
| GAN900 | And we don't really have anybody's ear with MeeGo. | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | attila did it because he wanted to do it, not because he was a council member | 17:38 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, of course | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: who was the council's main contact? Quim? | 17:39 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: who know that he's moved to the US is a no-go anymore I guess? Because he doesn't have direct contact with the local people in HEL? | 17:40 |
| crashanddie | s/know/now/ | 17:40 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: GAN900: who now that he's moved to the US is a no-go anymore I guess? Because he doesn't have direct contact with the local people in HEL? | 17:40 |
| GAN900 | Personally, we tried to buckle down and get working on stuff, but met with a brick wall | 17:40 |
| GAN900 | Then we said "OK, how can we get maemo.org ready for this changeover now that we know Nokia is dropping the N900." | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: well, let's start with texrat's meego greeeters. reggie with the forums and structure. dneary with knowledge of wikis and community structure and challenges. the mer guys going into various parts of system development in meego. x-fade with the experience in extras handling. heck, if jeremiah had stayed on, packaging help. andre with his knowledge of bugzilla, testers from test squad getting involved in MeeGo QA. | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | And so we held a brainstorm, got a bunch of tasks together | 17:41 |
| lcuk | texrats maemo greeters * | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | and--Tada!--no more budget! | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | jeremiah? | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | packaging help? | 17:42 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, jeremiah's position got cut. | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | I thought jeremiah was a debmaster, not rpmmaster | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: he does both, but hey :P | 17:42 |
| dneary | crashanddie, Our hierarchical superior is Tero Kojo | 17:42 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, He's my project manager | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | sorry, I don't see the link, I must've missed something | 17:42 |
| dneary | crashanddie, So the council should be letting him know if I'm not doing what they need from me | 17:42 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, and my response was addressing your complaint about the council not preparing, not about the individuals. | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | dneary: we're not criticising anything the paid contributors have done | 17:43 |
| dneary | GAN900, Actually, Jeremiah decided to leave, and the budget got reallocated | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | dneary: I don't think anyone was talking about that | 17:43 |
| dneary | (slightly different) | 17:43 |
| GAN900 | dneary, true enough | 17:43 |
| GAN900 | (brevity of typing) | 17:43 |
| dneary | crashanddie, I'm just pointing out that Tero could be a main contact | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: there was ample room for possibilities, even still is. could have easily taken the lead on many things. | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | ah, ok | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | but anyway | 17:43 |
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| Stskeeps | it's weekend and i have conference papers to read. | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | well, sessions | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | bbl. | 17:44 |
| GAN900 | So, council didn't lead at all, right. | 17:44 |
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| dneary | Actually, at this point I'd do an OpenSolaris governing board on it, and ask that someone officially replace Quim as the Maemo community liaison in Nokia | 17:44 |
| crashanddie | I don't think the council could've ever led anything, and it wasn't the point | 17:44 |
| Venemo | good afternoon everyone | 17:44 |
| crashanddie | the council, IMO was there to talk to Nokia based on what the community was thinking | 17:45 |
| dneary | GAN900, And there's still some budget | 17:45 |
| dneary | I'm 1/4 time Maemo for the next 4 months | 17:45 |
| crashanddie | and try as they might, they never got any answers | 17:45 |
| dneary | GAN900, And there's Niels, and Nemein still has some infrastructure budget | 17:45 |
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| GAN900 | dneary, if by some, you mean enough to keep the lights (mostly) on. :P | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | it's like talking to an Alzheimer granny. "How are you today" "Oooh, my little boys, they were so nice". At some point, the council had no choice but become the PR spokesperson for Nokia. | 17:46 |
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| dneary | GAN900, I need to set myself an agenda for the next few months... | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | That's how I saw things change | 17:46 |
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| dneary | And the council should definitely bring back a monthly staff meeting | 17:46 |
| dneary | we're missing those now | 17:47 |
| dneary | But don't expect any Nokia people to be there | 17:47 |
| * lcuk still wants to make a maemo app management doofer for desktop -> n900 but it requires a whole lot of coordination | 17:47 | |
| dneary | (although they may be anyway) | 17:47 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: maemo app management doofer? | 17:47 |
| lcuk | (as raised at the last meeting) | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | what's a doofer? | 17:47 |
| drizztbsd | if someome wants the kakaroto's ps3 hack I mirrored it here => http://omploader.org/vNWZkeg | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | I can't remember what a doofer is... | 17:48 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, desktop/website side application selection and then pushing to install those selections onto the device | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: interesting | 17:48 |
| lcuk | so you deal with the apps on your device from your big computer | 17:48 |
| dneary | Anyway - got a couple of things on the TODO list to get done today | 17:48 |
| lcuk | without faffing with ham | 17:48 |
| dneary | L8ter? | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | I'm done for the week | 17:49 |
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| crashanddie | I just checked the last thing on my list | 17:49 |
| * crashanddie fires up starcraft 2 | 17:49 | |
| dneary | Anyone from the council care to call a monthly Maemo team meeting for next Tuesday, preferably before people have left for the weekend, please? | 17:49 |
| lcuk | * nominate for council | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | dneary: people have left for the weekend | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | at least, everyone in my company has | 17:49 |
| FIQ|n900 | hmm | 17:49 |
| FIQ|n900 | interesting, apache seems to be on repos for os2008, but not @ n900 | 17:50 |
| dneary | crashanddie, Ah - you're in Belgium aren't you? | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | nope | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | Perpignan, France. | 17:50 |
| FIQ|n900 | have libs changed a lot or would it be possible to install @n900? | 17:50 |
| lcuk | FIQ|n900, if it builds, resubmit to fremantle queue | 17:50 |
| FIQ|n900 | k | 17:50 |
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| lcuk | FIQ|n900, many diablo compatible apps should build without issue technically | 17:51 |
| FIQ|n900 | ok | 17:51 |
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| lcuk | certainly backend ones at least | 17:51 |
| crashanddie | dneary: dude, how could you forget I lived in France :( You actually got me a discussion with a Canonical guy... :( | 17:51 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, Ah, right | 17:55 |
| dneary | No wonder then | 17:55 |
| dneary | The French are lazy buggers | 17:55 |
| dneary | The 35 hour week indeed | 17:55 |
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| dneary | (they do a 35 hour week *and* get RTTs) | 17:55 |
| GAN900 | Quim doesn't work on Maemo at all anymore | 17:55 |
| GAN900 | So, yeah, having a new contact would be a good idea | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | that's not true, he deals with the licensing queue | 17:56 |
| GAN900 | But what does Nokia care about Maemo these days. | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | and is still seen around maemo.og | 17:56 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, only in the vaguest sort of way. | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | well, the problem with quim's work is that you only see the top of the iceberg | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:57 |
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| GAN900 | Yes, because I wouldn't know anything about facilitation. | 17:57 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: the problem with Quim's work is that there is no visible result for us to see | 17:57 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: wait, what? | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | and that failures are more visible than progress that you think might just come naturally. | 17:58 |
| kerio | "advance in technology" can break RSA? | 17:58 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: but I don't blame him | 17:58 |
| kerio | P!=NP, remember | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: it's in a lot of maemo things and decisions you don't see cos it just comes from Nokia. | 17:58 |
| Venemo | kerio: yes | 17:58 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: yes, I know | 17:58 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: that I why I said it is not visible as his work | 17:58 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, point being, his focus is (justifiably) not on Maemo. | 17:59 |
| GAN900 | Given that Nokia's basically left us hanging | 17:59 |
| GAN900 | having a new contact person seems worthwhile. | 18:00 |
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| neeraj | Can any body tell me how can I change the title of Xephyr window. | 18:00 |
| Venemo | GAN900: I don't think we will have one | 18:01 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, I don't think so, either. | 18:01 |
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| Venemo | GAN900, Stskeeps: and about the licensing changes, all of them were dismissed with ridiculous excuses | 18:02 |
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| GAN900 | Venemo, that's how Nokia operates. | 18:02 |
| kerio | Venemo: yes what? | 18:02 |
| GAN900 | It still boggles my mind that Peter claims they're listening. | 18:02 |
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| GAN900 | But perhaps they are and they're just choosing to do the opposite | 18:03 |
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| tobis87 | kerio: a quantum computer could break rsa easily, "they" even search for people already http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/34597 | 18:04 |
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| Venemo | kerio: (4:58:06 PM) kerio: "advance in technology" can break RSA? ----> Yes, it can. | 18:04 |
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| lcuk | I know Nokia are listening and acting. | 18:04 |
| kerio | quantum computers *have a chance* of breaking RSA | 18:04 |
| kerio | :P | 18:04 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: what are you referring to? | 18:04 |
| lcuk | and GAN900 if you feel they aren't then perhaps you should try to find a way to do so. | 18:05 |
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| tobis87 | kerio: Investigators should presuppose the existence of a fully functional quantum computer and consider what algorithmic tasks are particularly well suited to such a machine. | 18:05 |
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| tobis87 | presuppose the existence of a fully functional quantum computer <- "They" already have one :-D | 18:06 |
| lcuk | GAN900, contact some of the principle Nokia maemo contributors | 18:06 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: are you saying this out of belief, or you know something? | 18:06 |
| kerio | tobis87: sure | 18:06 |
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| Venemo | kerio: although there is an encryption algorythm that quantum comupers can't break (yet) | 18:07 |
| tobis87 | yes, this algorithm from seventies: http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/08/18/1958226/1978-Cryptosystem-Resists-Quantum-Attack | 18:08 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, I've been in communication with Peter. | 18:10 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, as with Quim, much of what I do isn't immediately visible. | 18:10 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, when Nokia created Maemo many of its hackers worked outside their jobs to help build and improve it. We have a strong wide reaching vibrant set of applications which show that the principles original brought out 5 years ago work. this was done alongside existing activities and was the "hacker spirit" within Nokia | 18:13 |
| lcuk | just because we have Meego now does not mean the same spirit does not exist, hell if you think pressure from Meego is bad, imagine how hard it must have been at first against Symbian | 18:14 |
| Venemo | GAN900: by Peter, you mean Peter Schneider? | 18:15 |
| lcuk | GAN900, how many people were involved in the original HackerEdition made for the 770? | 18:15 |
| * lcuk is eternally amused at the new use cases Maemo has every day | 18:16 | |
| lcuk | as someone releases an app that sat dormant for a while or some research project emerges | 18:17 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, except here we are, 5 years later, we don't have a viable product, existing customers and contributors have been jetisoned, once again, Maemo contributors are the redhaired stepchildren in MeeGo and Nokia still doesn't "get" it. | 18:18 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, things exist in shades of gray. | 18:18 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, yes. | 18:18 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, we don't know, as it was an over-the-wall binary image drop done by contractors. | 18:19 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: and what does he say? | 18:21 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, hasn't nokia devivered on the product? a hacker friendly mobile platform? "Maemo - code in your hands" wasn't it? We have in excess of 25million app downloads and over 5000 community applications so far - the downloads increased over 20% this month alone and will continue to increase as the catalog improves | 18:22 |
| lcuk | its so hacker friendly even nokia are using it to build on it | 18:23 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: agreed | 18:26 |
| Venemo | lcuk: what do you mean by "nokia are using to build on it"? | 18:26 |
| lcuk | well Venemo meego is so open to gain possibility of community contributors they need a device to work from | 18:27 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: yes | 18:27 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, unlike a desktop linux the community cannot hack really on hardware in their home | 18:28 |
| lcuk | (which leads to the meego netbook farse, but thats another topic) | 18:28 |
| Venemo | lcuk: the only minor problem is that the "device to work from" doesn't "officially" support the very os they are working on | 18:28 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, all excellent talking points | 18:29 |
| GAN900 | Which ignore many of the negative aspects of Nokia and the platform. | 18:30 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, look around, most of the core contributors have burnt out and moved on. | 18:30 |
| Venemo | GAN900, lcuk: see qwerty12 for an example | 18:31 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG, ping | 18:31 |
| MNZ | GAN900, it's the same for a huge number of open source projects... people simply move on to other stuff | 18:31 |
| MNZ | and new people roll in | 18:31 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, I stopped playing Portal | 18:32 |
| lcuk | but that doesnt mean the game stopped being enjoyed by others | 18:32 |
| fnordianslip | "so long and thanks for all the fish", but in reverse? | 18:33 |
| lcuk | mnz is right | 18:33 |
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| microlith | lcuk: yes, but when a project is so badly mismanaged that dedicated users like querty12 blow up and attack the people trying to support it, something is seriously f*cked | 18:33 |
| lcuk | microlith, to be fair, people go postal in the best of jobs | 18:34 |
| microlith | yes, but maemo is extraordinarily badly managed | 18:34 |
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| microlith | as is Nokia's customer relations, which are virtually non-existent | 18:35 |
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| lcuk | then how do we deal with that actively | 18:35 |
| microlith | well we can't, so long as Nokia has a stick up their ass | 18:35 |
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| rmrfchik | is there way to set up bluetooth network between linux box and n900? (PAN, if I remember correctly) | 18:36 |
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| lcuk | rmrfchik, there should be, but IDK personally | 18:37 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN | 18:37 |
| lcuk | but the wiki does | 18:37 |
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| rmrfchik | oh. should I check it first. shame | 18:37 |
| rmrfchik | thanks | 18:37 |
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| liori | does Nokia have any competition in "hacker-friendly" handset? | 18:39 |
| Venemo | liori: no, I don't think so | 18:39 |
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| rmrfchik | long ago sharp zaurus FTW | 18:40 |
| Venemo | liori: but many people mistake Android for that | 18:40 |
| liori | so no wonders it goes this way | 18:40 |
| rmrfchik | I owned 860SL. very nice | 18:40 |
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| GAN900 | MNZ, indeed it is. | 18:41 |
| lcuk | isn't Canola due for an n900 release soon by the way? Google Summer of code is over | 18:42 |
| lcuk | and it was one of the projects | 18:42 |
| GAN900 | MNZ, however when it's the overwhelming majority of your core that's either walked out in discussed or is burning out as we speak, well, I don't consider that optimal. | 18:42 |
| GAN900 | Especially when it all comes down to things easily in Nokia's power to fix. | 18:42 |
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| MNZ | I frankly have no background on what has happened, it has been little over 2 weeks for me with the community | 18:43 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: 100% agreed | 18:44 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, the "overwhelming majority of your core" are paid people assigned to tasks. dneary just came in and said there are key people available with maemo related budgets - what specifically do you feel needs doing | 18:46 |
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| etrunko | lcuk: yeah, it is | 18:47 |
| lcuk | :D etrunko awesome | 18:47 |
| etrunko | the big problem is packaging all deps | 18:47 |
| etrunko | as usua | 18:47 |
| etrunko | *usual | 18:47 |
| etrunko | >/ | 18:47 |
| lcuk | thats the problem everywhere etrunko | 18:47 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: really? | 18:47 |
| etrunko | heh | 18:47 |
| lcuk | Venemo, read scrollback | 18:47 |
| lcuk | he wanted to assign a meeting next week for it | 18:47 |
| Venemo | lcuk: this is good news, isn't it? | 18:48 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, I'm talking about community people. | 18:48 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, paid people all seem to be on a steady diet of Kool-Aid. | 18:49 |
| MNZ | slightly unrelated, but do we have a general plan or roadmap for maemo? or is it just left to go where ever the wind takes it? | 18:49 |
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| GAN900 | MNZ, yeah, there's a lot of unfun history getting us here today. | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: does that mean there's another forum/opportunity to discuss issues like opening stuff, delivering much asked for functionality augments, etc? | 18:50 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, I'd like to see the ideas from the brainstorm implemented. | 18:50 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, then please champion them and stop whining - go and dig through and find simple effective things that *are* achievable | 18:50 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, but Neimen is in maintenance mode, X-Fade is keeping things afloat and that's about the extent of it. | 18:51 |
| Venemo | MNZ: Maemo will go where the wind goes, yes | 18:51 |
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| lcuk | mnz, if GAN900 has his way maemo is already dead. | 18:51 |
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| GAN900 | Not exactly a lot of hands to prep maemo.org for doing Nokia's job | 18:51 |
| lcuk | but that fate has been hanging on the BSD* for many years | 18:51 |
| Venemo | lcuk: so, you're going to have a meeting about this, right? | 18:52 |
| lcuk | well i wasnt going to organise it, dneary is better at that sort of thing ;) | 18:52 |
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| dneary | lcuk, You called? | 18:52 |
| dneary | Ask not for whom the bell tolls | 18:53 |
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| lcuk | hey dneary you mentioned earlier about a meeting | 18:53 |
| dneary | Yeah | 18:53 |
| Venemo | lcuk: to your question, "what you feel needs doing", just read TMO | 18:53 |
| MNZ | I always thought maemo was just on life-support until we got to meego, but then I looked at all the activity and I thought maybe the community want to take this further? | 18:53 |
| lcuk | perhaps reading the scrollback since you left might be better | 18:53 |
| dneary | I'd really like the community council to call a maemo staff + community meeting for September to make sure everyone has some TODO items | 18:53 |
| Venemo | lcuk: sorry, I have no scrollback. Although I've read everything since I'm here | 18:54 |
| lcuk | mnz, it might be, but that doesn't mean we cannot do things ourselves and within the available boundaries | 18:54 |
| lcuk | dneary, that sounds reasonable | 18:54 |
| Venemo | lcuk: anyways, I agree with Stskeeps on the longer term. We're better off having a workable MeeGo port than patching Maemo 5 | 18:54 |
| lcuk | i dont object in the slightest Venemo | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: there's chanlog, see /topic | 18:55 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: ah, thanks. okay | 18:55 |
| lcuk | meego is indeed exceptional and much wider in scope since it will expand fully and blossom outside our N series devices | 18:55 |
| MNZ | But now I'm slightly confused. Do the community generally want maemo to live on or just want maemo *applications* to live on, so a compatability layer on meego would suffice? | 18:56 |
| lcuk | but hopefully the core of Maemo can be in amongst that | 18:56 |
| Venemo | MNZ: the community is fragmented about the question | 18:56 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, tried, nobody reports, nobody communications, and there's no budget. | 18:56 |
| lcuk | GAN900, you just got told there is budget | 18:56 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, and you're not going to drum up support for a platform Nokia killed off. | 18:56 |
| dneary | MNZ, Who is the community? | 18:56 |
| lcuk | up there ^ | 18:57 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, depends on your definition. | 18:57 |
| Venemo | lcuk: anyways, what is the point of working on Maemo, if we will have MeeGo soon enough? | 18:57 |
| dneary | MNZ: Have you ever done any vector maths? | 18:57 |
| lcuk | GAN900, hence me saying simple practical things | 18:57 |
| lcuk | Venemo, people still use their Nokia 770 | 18:57 |
| MNZ | dneary, by community I meant the user/hackerbase. I thought that was obvious. And vector math, only a bit in high school | 18:57 |
| dneary | MNZ, So - think of the community as a bunch of vectors. | 18:58 |
| Venemo | lcuk: yes. | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: "soon enough" - hmm | 18:58 |
| MNZ | dneary, ah ok, got where you are going with this.... | 18:58 |
| Venemo | lcuk: I was referring to the "MeeGo for the N900" project | 18:58 |
| dneary | Each individual has a certain amount of influence (vector length) and a general direction he'd like to see the project take (direction) | 18:58 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: some people claim october | 18:58 |
| dneary | Now - all the vectors point in different directions. | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a fake though - it's called meego but it's harmattan aiui | 18:59 |
| Venemo | dneary: indeed | 18:59 |
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| dneary | Some converge - there's a bunch of vectors pointing generally in the direction "Fuck Nokia - let them open up Maemo 5 & we'll do it ourselves" | 18:59 |
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| dneary | And there's a bunch of vectors pointing towards "Maemo is the mpast, MeeGo is more open than Maemo ever was, we should get behind that" | 19:00 |
| dneary | Now - what happens when you add all the vectors? | 19:00 |
| MNZ | A resultant | 19:00 |
| MNZ | and that's what I was asking about | 19:00 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: well, MeeGo base OS and middleware is already stable, right? And Harmattan will have the same MeeGo Touch UI... so, with the latter completing in October, we should have a fully operational MeeGo, right? | 19:00 |
| lcuk | you get maemo apps running on non nokia hardware | 19:00 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: also, Stskeeps says that N900 driver support is already there in MeeGo | 19:01 |
| pupnik_ | well said lcuk | 19:01 |
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| dneary | MNZ, In general, when you add a bunch of vectors that point in different directions, the resultant doesn't have a very big amplitude | 19:01 |
| lcuk | dneary, i above all others know the problem of backwards compatability, and I have sat here for long enough to know how much it will matter to people. | 19:01 |
| * n900evil is going for a random walk. | 19:01 | |
| liori | dneary: in this case I'd say we have so many dimemsions the vectors will not cancel out | 19:01 |
| dneary | liori, My point exactly | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: stskeeps just bragged with first ever semi-working call on meego. So "MeeGo base OS and middleware is already stable"?? Nooooooway | 19:02 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, does sdl work on meego? | 19:03 |
| pupnik_ | hurr dunurr | 19:03 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: well, 1.0 was stable and it was out in march, and they said that they will have 1.1 stable in october, whatever | 19:03 |
| pupnik_ | i can't bring myself to sacrifice my laptop for it | 19:04 |
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| dneary | MNZ, To put it another way, asking "what does the community want?" at this point is meaningless | 19:07 |
| dneary | (sorry!) | 19:07 |
| MNZ | :( | 19:07 |
| Venemo | MNZ: dneary is right about this | 19:07 |
| lcuk | mnz, another way: bring up clear strong arguments and get people behind you and make it happen | 19:08 |
| GAN900 | In general, I think the community wants Nokia to stop jerking them around. | 19:08 |
| MNZ | GAN900++ | 19:08 |
| dneary | GAN900, I disagree | 19:08 |
| Venemo | lcuk: well said | 19:08 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: indeed. | 19:08 |
| dneary | GAN900, I think some of the community is happy with the direction Nokia is taking, and are happy to follow them | 19:08 |
| * lcuk is happy with meego | 19:08 | |
| lcuk | it will solve a lot of the noise people made over the years | 19:09 |
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| GAN900 | dneary, hey, about a hundred people voted for me, so I can speak for them at least. :P | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~gan900++ | 19:10 |
| dneary | GAN900, W00t 100/16000 (depending on how you count) | 19:10 |
| GAN900 | dneary, I think most people would agree that dropping support for N900 owners wasn't an ideal decision. | 19:11 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: agreed | 19:11 |
| MNZ | I have another question though, the vectors you mentioned dneary, I would think they come in cluster pointing in a general direction each. I would argue that people who simply think maemo is on life support (or other similar direction) can be safely removed from the equation | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | dneary: how ill you count the Nokia-cheering sheep? and how many do you claim there are? | 19:11 |
| GAN900 | And demoing Flash 10, saying q1 then never another peep probably wasn't ideal, either. | 19:11 |
| dneary | MNZ, Perhaps | 19:12 |
| Venemo | GAN900: agreed | 19:12 |
| dneary | DocScrutinizerWell, vectors have a length | 19:12 |
| dneary | And those vectors are short | 19:12 |
| MNZ | the rest of the 'community', no matter what their directions on where to take maemo, want _improvement_, and I would take that as a very vague, very general direction which can be agreed upon by a majority that actually matter | 19:12 |
| dneary | GAN900, Nokia are still going to continue support for N900 owners for a couple of years, but not spend any money supporting app developers for N900 | 19:13 |
| MNZ | so this brings us back to: Where's the roadmap! | 19:13 |
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| GAN900 | Nor dropping N900 support then slashing the budget and eliminating the position best placed to ensure the success of their Harmattan Hacker Edition answer probably wasn't good either. | 19:14 |
| GAN900 | dneary, define "support" | 19:15 |
| dneary | GAN900, Provide occasional OS updates for | 19:15 |
| dneary | To fix bugs | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | hah | 19:15 |
| GAN900 | "We'll take your calls and help you buy an N9" | 19:15 |
| pexi | better to focus resources for meego&intel collaboration | 19:15 |
| GAN900 | dneary, like the N8x0s? :) | 19:15 |
| dneary | GAN900, No | 19:15 |
| dneary | N900 is a phone | 19:15 |
| dneary | So more like the N82 or something like that | 19:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dneary: (no support for app devels) which is utterly insane, given the loudmouthedly claimed pushbutton app compatibility from maemo to meego | 19:16 |
| GAN900 | Because Nokia still "supported" Diablo through this year. | 19:16 |
| GAN900 | dneary, but nothing vaguely resembling their competitors' definitions. | 19:16 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, talk about clueless realit-detatchment. | 19:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | doesn't the iPhone 2G still get updates? | 19:17 |
| Venemo | GAN900: anyways, Nokia's support is still superior to Samsung's | 19:17 |
| Venemo | take as an example, the i8910 | 19:17 |
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| GAN900 | Venemo, Samsung doesn't ship a Linux distro. | 19:17 |
| Venemo | GAN900: yes. what I meant, they support their products much less | 19:18 |
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| GAN900 | MohammadAG51, did through 3.x. | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | and the 3G (N8x0 equivalent) is still current | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | The N900 didn't even get a year. | 19:19 |
| Venemo | GAN900: the i8910 didn't get half a year | 19:20 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: so Nokia is not the worst | 19:20 |
| Venemo | GAN900: but, I agree with your point | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: that's really apples and err, submarines | 19:20 |
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| lcuk | heh, do you think AD-N770 was an active Nokia 770 user? | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | And Apple's software isn't still a big buggy pile of uselessness. | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, competitors are Apple and Google. | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | Both of which seem to be doing an excellent job of providing reasonable support | 19:22 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: hm. well, maybe | 19:22 |
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| MohammadAG51 | well | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | Nokia has Symbian and maemo | 19:23 |
| Venemo | GAN900: but why just these two? | 19:23 |
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| zogg_ | MohammadAG51, | 19:23 |
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| GAN900 | Venemo, only people shipping similar products. | 19:24 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: so, Samsung's not? | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, for me it feels like Nokia did (A, B) for maemo, now doing (a) for meego and telling "dear devels, why wait for C on maemo? We got shining meego in a short while and there will be C+" (some fine day) | 19:28 |
| lcuk | GAN900, for the longest time you were against the phone aspect of maemo, rallying behind it being a tablet and unique. the people that dreamed up an open source eco system would be proud now. and meego is a new revisioning of that to beat the newcomers, but it does not negate from just how awesome and far maemo has gotten. | 19:28 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, in 5 years? | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | Not very | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | Nokia went from pioneering the market to allowing its competitors to dominate and redefine it. | 19:29 |
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| jacekowski | well, only htc and apple | 19:30 |
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| jacekowski | nobody else has anything that would compete with nokia phones | 19:31 |
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| Venemo | anyways, despite all the pessimism going on here, I still think that Maemo 5 is one of the best OSes on the market | 19:32 |
| lcuk | hurrah \o/ | 19:33 |
| MNZ | Venemo++ | 19:33 |
| Venemo | it has its weaknesses, but nothing is perfect | 19:33 |
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| lcuk | that sounds like an excellent point to make a break for the weekend | 19:33 |
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| GAN900 | Venemo, I agree. | 19:34 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, which is why it frustrates me so when Nokia sabatoges it constantly. | 19:35 |
| GAN900 | and Maemo takes a backseat to Moblin in MeeGo. | 19:35 |
| timoph | moblin? that's only for netbooks | 19:36 |
| Venemo | GAN900: still, I don't think MeeGo would be any worse than Maemo | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | timoph, much like MeeGo right now. | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, Intel's worse than Nokia, amazingly. | 19:36 |
| timoph | I have it running on my N900 :) | 19:36 |
| Venemo | GAN900: worse? why? | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, because they deal with OEMs | 19:37 |
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| GAN900 | At least Nokia has some experience dealing with people. | 19:37 |
| Venemo | GAN900: well, at least they are not alone now | 19:38 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: some people have objections against rpm packaging | 19:38 |
| Venemo | GAN900: but apart from that, it won't be that much different | 19:38 |
| Venemo | GAN900: if I'm wrong, please educate me | 19:39 |
| tobis87 | you can also see it the other way around, maemo is the least worst of the android, maemo, apple ios... e.g. just to get root access on the other two | 19:39 |
| tobis87 | and it runs the code natively and it is not programmed in c | 19:39 |
| tobis87 | in c# | 19:39 |
| MNZ | tobis87, less worse from a hacker perspective..... an app programmer or an end user: I'm not entirely sure | 19:40 |
| tobis87 | ah, sorry was it object-c (apple ios) | 19:40 |
| kerio | android apps are java :< | 19:41 |
| kerio | aren't they? | 19:41 |
| timoph | GAN900: does this look like moblin? -> http://koti.kapsi.fi/~mjolk/pic/mhello.png | 19:41 |
| kerio | objc is still compiled at least | 19:42 |
| timoph | doesn't look like it to me | 19:42 |
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| pupnik_ | sandboxes are for kids :P | 19:44 |
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| tobis87 | kerio: Android language http://www.gubatron.com/blog/2010/05/23/how-many-lines-of-code-does-it-take-to-create-the-android-os/ | 19:45 |
| kerio | that's the os | 19:45 |
| Venemo | android is bloatware from Google | 19:45 |
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| Venemo | its sole purpose was to kill Windows Mobile | 19:46 |
| jacekowski | and it sends your brain to google | 19:46 |
| kerio | android is the iOS for poor people | 19:46 |
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| kerio | the only difference between iOS and Android is the kernel and the corporation behind it | 19:46 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: yes! | 19:46 |
| Venemo | kerio: and the level of (supposed) openness | 19:47 |
| GAN900 | timoph, organizationally speaking. | 19:47 |
| merlin1991 | sry for the join spam, I failed closing xchat properly when I changed some stuff | 19:47 |
| kerio | nah, rooting vs jailbreaking is the same | 19:47 |
| Venemo | kerio: yes. | 19:47 |
| Venemo | kerio: but you can download (some of) android's souce, but not ios's. | 19:47 |
| Venemo | kerio: with your other points I agree | 19:48 |
| kerio | you can download darwin | 19:48 |
| kerio | it's the kernel | 19:48 |
| kerio | LO | 19:48 |
| kerio | er | 19:48 |
| kerio | wrong window | 19:48 |
| tobis87 | i still don't understand, what they had smoked to come up with the idea of running the apps in Java, ok some apps already did run in Java but mostly these which you could buy. The others did run natively in Symbian, right? | 19:49 |
| Venemo | tobis87: what? | 19:49 |
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| tobis87 | I mean, did the base system run native in symbian? I thought it did, not as bytecode. | 19:51 |
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| Venemo | tobis87: if that is what you're curious about, Symbian applications are native, yes | 19:53 |
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| Venemo | tobis87: Symbian C++ compiles to native code | 19:54 |
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| * mgedmin played with his sister's Android phone and now wants a port of Gem Miner to Maemo | 19:59 | |
| MNZ | mgedmin, is it open source :D ? | 20:01 |
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| mgedmin | probably not, given that it has a free(ware?) version and a commercial version | 20:01 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Rocks & Diamonds is in the repos. | 20:06 |
| mgedmin | different game, though | 20:07 |
| tobis87 | Ok, but why did Google choose to run the whole in java? Only, because it is easier to deploy programs on multiple devices? Arm elf should be flexible enough, the programs only need to get recompiled with a diffrent toolchain. And it should be faster, are there any benchmarks availible native vs bytecode in Dalvik. | 20:08 |
| GAN900 | Easy deployment, easier sandboxing and control | 20:09 |
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| GAN900 | Lot of devs know it | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | minimizing hardware deps could also be part of it, I suppose | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | there are many variations of ARM | 20:09 |
| Venemo | tobis87: managed-code apps are not necessarily slower | 20:09 |
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| jacekowski | well dalvik is slower | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | but that's implementation fail as well | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | and there is difference between what .net is doing and what java/dalvik is doing | 20:15 |
| jacekowski | .net code is not a bytecode | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | it's intermediate bytecode | 20:16 |
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| jacekowski | that gets compiled/JITed whan started | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | with knowledge of local platform | 20:16 |
| jacekowski | it's sort of like half compiled code | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | in my dictionary there's no "bytecode" that isn't intermediate | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | were you drawing a distinction between AOT/JIT and direct bytecode interpretation? | 20:17 |
| jacekowski | kind of | 20:18 |
| jacekowski | but there are different kind of JITs | 20:18 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: in .NET, source code is compiled to IL. Then IL gets JITted to machine code. | 20:18 |
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| jacekowski | yes | 20:18 |
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| jacekowski | but JIT compiler has knowledge about local system | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | so it can apply optimisations that would be impossible to apply with normal application | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | while java was designed to run on VM | 20:19 |
| jacekowski | and JIT capabilities were added later | 20:19 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: indeed | 20:19 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: the .NET CLR optimizes code for the platform it runs on | 20:20 |
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| jacekowski | and java jit just slower | 20:20 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: yes | 20:21 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: and java doesn't jit all the time | 20:21 |
| tobis87 | I think the main problem if we try to get Maemo usable for normal users, is that we have to go in the direction in which Android goes. It is good for companies to not have to deal with overclockers and people who mess up their partition table... And most people are also happy, because they don't have to reflash their device. | 20:21 |
| tobis87 | I think you can only have an os which is either user friendly or hacker friendly. Ubuntu for example becomes everytime more userfriendly, but for me unfriendly (compiz, right side buttons, gimp, etc...) | 20:21 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: java JITs some code, and interprets some others | 20:21 |
| Venemo | tobis87: well, I dunno about Ubuntu, but I don't think the two things contradict each other | 20:22 |
| jacekowski | well, every app should have it's own small container | 20:22 |
| jacekowski | so it can't affect anything else | 20:22 |
| jacekowski | and well it does't contradict each other | 20:22 |
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| tobis87 | yes, you can disable all this stuff, but why not choose a less uber-user-friendly distro first | 20:23 |
| jacekowski | for lulz | 20:23 |
| mgedmin | I disagree that user-friendliness must imply hacker-hostility | 20:23 |
| jacekowski | mgedmin: i disagree with you disagreeing | 20:23 |
| Venemo | mgedmin: agreed. | 20:23 |
| jacekowski | all these automated stuff | 20:23 |
| mgedmin | ooh, you pulling double negatives on me, jacekowski? | 20:24 |
| jacekowski | makes non automated stuff complicated | 20:24 |
| Venemo | anyone else watching SGU? | 20:24 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Weirdly enough, Rocks&Diamonds is many games at once, they used just about everything there | 20:24 |
| * jacekowski | 20:24 | |
| RST38h | Venemo: Has it started anew? | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | RST38h, I looked at the screenshots; all those different games are really different variations of the same game | 20:24 |
| Venemo | RST38h: season 2 will come in the end of september | 20:25 |
| jacekowski | RST38h: not yet | 20:25 |
| RST38h | ah | 20:25 |
| jacekowski | 28th of september | 20:25 |
| * RST38h goes back to Ashes2Ashes | 20:25 | |
| Venemo | jacekowski: yes. | 20:25 |
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| jacekowski | i'm watching eureka, warehouse 13 and hmm that's all at the moment | 20:25 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Well, if you call Boulderdash, Supaflex, and Soukoban the same game... | 20:25 |
| * Venemo is watching SGU 1x20 atm | 20:25 | |
| jacekowski | V is terminated isn't it? | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | ah, Sokoban is a bit different | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | aren't Boulderdash and Supaplex the same? | 20:26 |
| jacekowski | next season of doctor who will be next year | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | collect items while avoiding falling boulders | 20:26 |
| jacekowski | torchwood is terminated iirc | 20:26 |
| Venemo | what do you think about The Guild? | 20:26 |
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| mgedmin | the thing I liked about Gem Miner was that it had less puzzle solving and more exploration | 20:27 |
| johnsq | Hi | 20:27 |
| jacekowski | legend of the seeker is terminated as well | 20:27 |
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| Venemo | johnsq: hey | 20:28 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Ah | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | it almost felt roguelike | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | except as a side-scroller | 20:29 |
| mgedmin | and without monsters | 20:29 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Ah I see | 20:30 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: There is a few JRPGs that are close in function | 20:31 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: They will run on VGBA | 20:31 |
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| RST38h | eeek: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/03/fun_kookaburra/ | 20:33 |
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| MohammadAG | PyQt or PyGTK? | 20:34 |
| RST38h | PyQt | 20:35 |
| NotAtPAXMousey | PyTK! | 20:35 |
| RST38h | But, better, just Qt, so that I do not have to install Python | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | speaking of PyQt, PyQt or PySide? | 20:36 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.clonedinchina.com/2010/07/shanzhai-brings-bar-phones-that-have-removable-keyboard.html cool idea: removable keyboard for phone | 20:36 |
| * timoph prefers ncurses :) | 20:36 | |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Old story, see TI calculators | 20:37 |
| RST38h | Also Sony remote controls and a few PC gaming keyboards | 20:37 |
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| mgedmin | didn't the Romans have a saying, something like "new is just well-forgotten old" | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | they probably had removable keyboards for their abacuses too | 20:38 |
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| RST38h | Romans probably had mechanical computation engines | 20:39 |
| RST38h | If that mechanism lifted from the sea floor any indication | 20:40 |
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| tank-man | transformer phone :) | 20:41 |
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| pupnik_ | RST38h: ok, new to me | 20:57 |
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| chadi | Can I remove all pics of my contacts at once? I'm asking this because I want to "Retreive" using Hermes to update the pics. | 21:02 |
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| merlin1991 | yeah you can | 21:03 |
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| chadi | how? | 21:03 |
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| merlin1991 | remove all files in /home/user/osso-abook/avatars/ | 21:04 |
| merlin1991 | that's what I would do | 21:04 |
| merlin1991 | wait it's /home/user/.ossoabook/avatars/ | 21:05 |
| chadi | .osso-abook :) | 21:05 |
| merlin1991 | typo again :/ | 21:05 |
| chadi | do you use the same method to update the pics? | 21:06 |
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| merlin1991 | nope I never updated them, but that would by my first guess | 21:06 |
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| chadi | should I backup first, or no harm will happen anyway? | 21:07 |
| merlin1991 | I would backup | 21:08 |
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| chadi | They're not gone | 21:09 |
| chadi | anything I should restart? | 21:09 |
| chadi | I don't want to reboot the phone | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | always backup | 21:09 |
| chadi | I backed up | 21:10 |
| chadi | but I was saying that the pics are still there | 21:10 |
| jacekowski | yeah it's sqlite | 21:10 |
| jacekowski | you have to do some fancy queries to databse | 21:11 |
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| chadi | I have no idea at all how to do that | 21:11 |
| merlin1991 | sqlite3 command in xterm | 21:11 |
| jacekowski | sqlite /home/user/.osssosomething/file/with/contacts.db | 21:12 |
| jacekowski | sqlite3 /home/user/.osssosomething/file/with/contacts.db | 21:12 |
| jacekowski | i don't remember structure of that file and i'm shitting on toilet at the moment | 21:12 |
| jacekowski | so i can't help you | 21:12 |
| jacekowski | well, not now at least | 21:12 |
| chadi | so from what I understand, the pics are stored in the db, and then "backed up" every now and then in .osso-abook/avatars/ ? | 21:13 |
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| jacekowski | i think it's just file name that's in db | 21:13 |
| merlin1991 | sqlite3 /home/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db | 21:13 |
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| chadi | oh well, I'm not familiar with sql queries | 21:16 |
| Venemo | lcuk: ping | 21:18 |
| lcuk | am in #liqbase | 21:19 |
| luke-jr | w00t | 21:21 |
| luke-jr | there's a lcuk fan club now⁇ | 21:21 |
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| MohammadAG | always been :P | 21:22 |
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| MohammadAG | what PyQt apps are there? | 21:23 |
| MohammadAG | other than healthcheck | 21:23 |
| Arkenoi | anyone got syncevolution really working with google? | 21:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | Anyone got google voice working over SIP directly? | 21:25 |
| SpeedEvil | All the howtos I found seem to imply you need a third party service. | 21:25 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: impossible | 21:27 |
| * Arkenoi got SIP working with my local cellular network, so i am free from roaming charges when abroad with wifi or decent 3g nearby | 21:27 | |
| luke-jr | it only works with Gizmo | 21:27 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 21:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | And gizmo is as I understand it not taking new registrations | 21:27 |
| luke-jr | not since Google bought them | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | it looks like my t-mobile is blocking sip | 21:27 |
| luke-jr | luckily, I had a spare since before | 21:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Would be nice. | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | SIP would be handy | 21:28 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: even with TLS? | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I have 'free' data. | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | That is - free up to 1G/mo | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I have no free calls | 21:28 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: plenty of SIP origination | 21:28 |
| * Arkenoi wonders why there is google voice, gizmo and gtalk voice and no unification among those at all. hell, i want arkenoi@gmail.com to be valid SIP URI! | 21:28 | |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: n900 can do tls? | 21:28 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: it never could be. URIs require a scheme | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | jabber should take over sip | 21:28 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: not sure | 21:28 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: N900 can't do Jabber video it seems | 21:29 |
| luke-jr | at least not over 3G? | 21:29 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: oO | 21:29 |
| jacekowski | o must have been halucinating | 21:29 |
| Arkenoi | luke-jr, well, sip:arkenoi@gmail.com :-) | 21:29 |
| jacekowski | i* | 21:29 |
| * luke-jr ponders if Empathy+SofiaSIP would work… | 21:29 | |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: i could bet i had jabber video working on 3g | 21:29 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: didn't work for me ☹ | 21:29 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: via my jabber server @jacekowski.org | 21:30 |
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| chadi | Where is Hermes' data stored in /home? | 21:30 |
| Arkenoi | luke-jr, there is no difference for telepathy what network layer is | 21:30 |
| jacekowski | to my gmail account | 21:30 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: … | 21:30 |
| Arkenoi | it is not symbian so no restrictions for sure :-) | 21:30 |
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| luke-jr | Arkenoi: various protocols have varying NAT-compatibility | 21:30 |
| luke-jr | T-Mobile data is NAT | 21:30 |
| Arkenoi | luke-jr, JINGLE does NAT reasonably good, never had any problems with it | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: not telepathy-gabble apparently… | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | or perhaps it was the double-NAT | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | the other end is NAT too | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | basically, I haven't found anything that works to video chat between Ubuntu and N900 | 21:32 |
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| Arkenoi | i talked via double NAT, no problems at all | 21:32 |
| Arkenoi | n900 to desktop gtalk | 21:32 |
| luke-jr | … | 21:32 |
| luke-jr | gtalk doesn't support Liux | 21:32 |
| luke-jr | Linux* | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: yeah i tested it again | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: and it's working | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | with like hour long lag | 21:33 |
| * luke-jr peers | 21:33 | |
| luke-jr | what client? | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | stock client on n900 | 21:33 |
| luke-jr | on the other side obviously | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | firefox with gtalk plugin | 21:34 |
| luke-jr | how do you use gtalk plugin without gmail? | 21:34 |
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| jacekowski | from my phone jacekowski@jacekowski.org/Maemo i called my jacekowski@gmail.com/GMail | 21:34 |
| luke-jr | -.- | 21:35 |
| luke-jr | not useful | 21:35 |
| jacekowski | but there must be normal desktop client with video call support | 21:35 |
| luke-jr | sure, but it didn't work with N900 | 21:35 |
| jacekowski | name the client | 21:35 |
| luke-jr | also note that GTalk doesn't use Jingle | 21:35 |
| luke-jr | Empathy | 21:35 |
| jacekowski | whatever it uses | 21:36 |
| jacekowski | works for me | 21:36 |
| luke-jr | it uses Google's non-standard non-compatible implementation "like" Jingle | 21:37 |
| jacekowski | well, it's compatible with normal jabber call from n900 going trough very pedanting eJabberd | 21:38 |
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| liori | n900's jabber client is based on mission control, which is based on telepathy, which is what empathy is based on | 21:42 |
| liori | the same software handling the protocol on both sides | 21:43 |
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| chadi | there's an app in the tools that logs an application's access to the /home - can you tell me what it is? | 21:43 |
| liori | that's why it works | 21:44 |
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| ZogG | афые фзз ьфтфпук шы тще афые фтньщку =) | 21:51 |
| ZogG | fast app manager is not fats anymore* | 21:51 |
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| jacekowski | hmm, that's not russian phonetic | 21:56 |
| pekuja | I think it's "oops I had the wrong keyboard layout turned on" | 21:57 |
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| RST38h | Hm, weird: the memory card is actually faster than internal mmc | 22:01 |
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| jacekowski | cache? | 22:02 |
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| RST38h | no | 22:03 |
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| RST38h | Transferring 1+GB of data, what cache... | 22:03 |
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| chadi | if there's an application in the menu, how can I know what command is used to launch it? | 22:13 |
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| chadi | never mind, I got it, it's in /usr/share/applications/hildon | 22:14 |
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| RST38h | Ahha, I know what is going on with access speeds | 22:22 |
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| RST38h | Card READS are twice faster than card WRITES | 22:22 |
| chadi | how come hermes load from the menu, and doesn't when I issue /opt/hermes/bin/hermes, which is the command used by the menu launcher? it gives me 2 dbus errors | 22:22 |
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| kurosu | good evening | 22:38 |
| kurosu | is there any mean to make the phone vibrate except through some dbus api? I mean the following: | 22:39 |
| kurosu | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/mce-dev/dbus-names_8h.html | 22:39 |
| luke-jr | kurosu: of course, /but it isn't a phone/ | 22:39 |
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| MohammadAG | any PyQt users here? | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | well, devs | 22:40 |
| mece | hello | 22:41 |
| mece | MohammadAG, yees? | 22:41 |
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| kurosu | luke-jr: well I'm more interested in some documentation for this than what the N900 should be called? :p | 22:41 |
| mece | MohammadAG, yees? | 22:42 |
| luke-jr | kurosu: echo 128 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness | 22:42 |
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| MohammadAG | s/128/255 | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | mece, any ideas how to set a background image in a PyQt app? | 22:43 |
| luke-jr | for i in {1..255} 0; do echo $i > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness; sleep 0.1; done | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | would be lulz ^ | 22:43 |
| mece | MohammadAG, for the whole thing you mean? | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 22:44 |
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| mece | MohammadAG, hmm. did you try throwing some stylesheets at the main widget? | 22:45 |
| mece | MohammadAG, as in http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/stylesheet.html | 22:45 |
| kurosu | luke-jr: am I really free to do that? This sounds not enough generic, but point taken | 22:47 |
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| * RST38h watches "Sanctuary". Weak reenactment of SCP files on film. | 22:51 | |
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| Venemo | Jigglypuff: hi | 22:59 |
| Arkenoi | ah, tv series. too long to start watching. if it was a movie.. | 23:00 |
| Jigglypuff | Hi guys, i tried compile supertux2 (v0.3.3) with OpenGL ES support. I used libGLES and libGLUES, build completed, but when i start the game, no picture, only black screen, but i can start level, and the sound working fine... Could anyone help me? Any Idea? | 23:00 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: isn't worth it anyway | 23:00 |
| mece | my inside factory worker tells me the N8-xx with slide keyboard has a crappier camera but is slimmer and nicer than current N8, and it starts prod this fall, and N9 starts prod Q1 '11. FYI :) | 23:00 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: not believable, formulaic etc | 23:01 |
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| * SpeedEvil sighs at lousy book->series deas. | 23:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | deals. | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Dresden Files. | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Could have been _awesome_. | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | But it needs a large budget. | 23:02 |
| merlin1991 | Dresden Files suxxs after the first books | 23:03 |
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| mece | movie time. I'm out. ta. | 23:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | get_iplayer --pvr | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | argh | 23:06 |
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| luke-jr | kurosu: who said generic? | 23:07 |
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| Andy1210 | hi Venemo | 23:10 |
| kurosu | me. it's hardwired to specific h/w, but it's probably better than the dbus api. Now it also depends on the required access rights through one method or the other | 23:10 |
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| GAN900 | merlin1991, what? | 23:12 |
| GAN900 | merlin1991, they just get better and better. | 23:13 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, it needs producers to not screw around with plot elements. | 23:13 |
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| wtfyeahhhh | I want to be able to slow down music, so I was happy that maemo could run mplayer - but when I press '[' or ']' in the terminal to slow down mplayer, mplayer freezes | 23:14 |
| merlin1991 | nah GAN900, in the first few dresden is rather weak and only survives by pure luck/some awesome trick | 23:14 |
| GAN900 | If this is the Matrix analogy, then I call bogus. :P | 23:15 |
| merlin1991 | in the later books he beats everyone that was a major thread earlier with ease | 23:15 |
| GAN900 | Where did you stop? | 23:15 |
| merlin1991 | I read them all :D | 23:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Even the graphic novel? | 23:16 |
| SpeedEvil | (I diddn't go that far) | 23:16 |
| merlin1991 | I skipped those | 23:16 |
| merlin1991 | the last one I read is Turn Coat | 23:17 |
| merlin1991 | so there are actually 2 newer ones | 23:17 |
| wtfyeahhhh | how would you slow the speed of music on the n900? | 23:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | wtfyeahhhh: I would start by working out where mplyaer is crashing. | 23:18 |
| SpeedEvil | gdb, for examle. | 23:18 |
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| wtfyeahhhh | no idea | 23:19 |
| wtfyeahhhh | not sure how to check | 23:19 |
| wtfyeahhhh | it just stops right away | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | enable debugging symbols during compilation. | 23:19 |
| wtfyeahhhh | i hear the slower music for less than a second | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Compile. | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Run under gdb | 23:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | when it crashes, type 'bt' to get a backtrace, and then post this to mplayer mailing lists | 23:19 |
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| * ShadowJK_ 'd first of all retry it with -ao pulse | 23:22 | |
| wtfyeahhhh | maybe there is a debugging enabled one in the dev ports | 23:22 |
| wtfyeahhhh | "mplayer -ao pulse"? | 23:23 |
| wtfyeahhhh | another question...when I press up arrow, why doesnt the term in maemo remember the cmds from last time? | 23:23 |
| MohammadAG | stacked windows are an ass | 23:23 |
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| ShadowJK_ | yeah, "mplayer -ao pulse file.mp3" or something | 23:23 |
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| luke-jr | wtfyeahhhh: no | 23:24 |
| kurosu | How can I detect maemo in a configure script? for instance what would be the value of the usual host variable? | 23:25 |
| wtfyeahhhh | no what? | 23:25 |
| luke-jr | [15:23:33] <wtfyeahhhh> another question…when I press up arrow, why doesnt the term in maemo remember the cmds from last time? | 23:25 |
| luke-jr | wtfyeahhhh: because it doesn't. | 23:25 |
| merlin1991 | wtfyeahhhh, you have to exit xterm by typing exit to have the cmds remembered | 23:25 |
| luke-jr | kurosu: Maemo is an OS, not an architecture | 23:25 |
| ShadowJK_ | kurosu, I've seen people try link to libosso | 23:25 |
| kurosu | luke-jr: so is mingw and cygwin yet they get specific host | 23:26 |
| luke-jr | kurosu: no they're not | 23:26 |
| luke-jr | mingw is just a compiler | 23:26 |
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| kurosu | + runtime + ... | 23:26 |
| MohammadAG | kurosu, use osso-product-info | 23:26 |
| luke-jr | and they're exceptions because Windows is so screwed up | 23:26 |
| wtfyeahhhh | the pulse thing worked | 23:26 |
| luke-jr | kurosu: no, MingW doesn't need a runtime | 23:26 |
| wtfyeahhhh | is there a way to press [ to slow music in the regular music player? | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK_ | msys is more like that.. | 23:26 |
| luke-jr | MingW-built EXEs run natively without any dependencies | 23:26 |
| wtfyeahhhh | also, why doesnt the regular music player allow you to skip around if its a flac file? | 23:27 |
| kurosu | true, though you need to code sometimes specifically for them | 23:27 |
| kurosu | if I was interested in debating this I would question about cygwin then, but I'm more interested in a simple test in configure | 23:28 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keu4GiTGQ6M John Carmack demos 'Rage' on iphone - quakecon 2010 | 23:28 |
| kurosu | so I don't get such a simple solution for maemo | 23:28 |
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| wtfyeahhhh | that's really helpful, thanks merlin1991 | 23:30 |
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| pupnik_ | wtfyeahhhh: might be possible to remap those keys in a mplayer config | 23:35 |
| wtfyeahhhh | so it will work with the regular maemo player? | 23:36 |
| wtfyeahhhh | media* | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | no | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | regular media player has no such feature | 23:36 |
| wtfyeahhhh | ah lame | 23:37 |
| wtfyeahhhh | thought it might be using mplayer | 23:37 |
| wtfyeahhhh | kmplayer have key bindings? | 23:37 |
| pupnik_ | you can lower speed and /or pitch | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | no it's mafw+gstreamer or something.. | 23:37 |
| wtfyeahhhh | yeah, speed is what I want | 23:37 |
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