IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-09-03

*** Jucato_ has joined #maemo00:00
*** zeq1 has quit IRC00:00
*** zeq1 has joined #maemo00:01
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (sudser) it's as sophisticated as *#-enabler - a 5liner postinstall. The question isn't how/who to test it on m5/n900, the concerns are if it's a basically god or evil idea to allow root without password00:01
*** tobis87 has left #maemo00:03
DocScrutinizer( *** Stskeeps setzt Modus: +b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.198.) THANKS00:03
*** Jucato has quit IRC00:03
*** croppa has joined #maemo00:03
*** Mousey has joined #maemo00:04
ZogGDocScrutinizer why?00:04
ZogGi log in from webgate sometimes00:04
DocScrutinizerN900*a and certain IPs is a guaranteed PITA00:05
*** dailylinux has quit IRC00:05
*** andax_ has joined #maemo00:05
lcukDocScrutinizer, we have kernels which can overclock the device00:06
DocScrutinizerthis dude is trolling here since months, and I thought "WTF?! him again?" while reading backscroll, before I ran into Stskeeps taking care of it. So I don't have to do00:06
*** JamieBennett has left #maemo00:06
ZogGDocScrutinizer, that's true00:06
ZogGi'm the troll king here00:07
ZogGlet's keep it like that00:07
DocScrutinizerso, as I'm not really here (you just think I am)... cya, I know channel is cosy and warm00:07
* ZogG hugs DocScrutinizer 00:07
*** TomaszD has quit IRC00:08
*** andax has quit IRC00:08
*** andax_ is now known as andax00:08
ZogGshe is damn hot00:09
*** TomaszD has joined #maemo00:09
*** TomaszD has quit IRC00:09
*** TomaszD has joined #maemo00:09
* ZogG mp> Tekken.2010.1080p.BluRay.x264-ELiTE.mkv [1920x816 H264 1000.000fps]00:09
*** lbt has joined #maemo00:09
*** gnutoo has left #maemo00:09
*** TomaszD has quit IRC00:09
*** imp|cat has joined #maemo00:09
*** TomaszD has joined #maemo00:09
*** gomiam has joined #maemo00:09
*** marciom has quit IRC00:09
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk00:11
*** Dantonic has quit IRC00:11
*** kthomas_vh_ is now known as kthomas00:12
*** imp|cat has quit IRC00:12
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo00:12
*** TiagoTiago has joined #maemo00:16
TiagoTiagofuck fuck fuck fuck fuck Dx00:16
TiagoTiagostorage format not supported00:17
steinexabout getting an invisible shield on the n900...00:17
*** zap has quit IRC00:17
TiagoTiagoi hadn't even got to 1 Ghz, but is seems it was enough to screw the internal memory Dx00:17
steinexsomeone from germany that can tell me a shop who _does_ it?00:17
*** trbs has quit IRC00:18
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo00:18
ZogGTiagoTiago ?00:18
TiagoTiagosomthing went wrong with my N90000:19
keriotrumee: if someone ports it00:19
kerioit's opensource and it uses opengl00:19
kerioit's also huge00:19
TiagoTiagoon every reboot it gets worse00:19
TiagoTiagonow even the textures for the pin entry keypad are missing00:19
SpeedEvilHave you reflashed to stock kernel?00:19
kerioand since it's a fps, it's really not playable without fullsize kbd+mouse00:19
SpeedEvilAt stock speed?00:19
TiagoTiagothe fonts are missing00:20
TiagoTiagoi had OC'd to 90000:20
keriofucked up /opt/ then00:20
keriohope you fucked up /opt/00:20
trumeekerio, with a ps3 controller?00:20
keriotrumee: you... you play FPSes with a controller?00:20
kerioBURN IN HELL00:20
TiagoTiagoany way i can fix this without having to reinstall everything?00:20
steinexi never understood why people are overclocking in first place... it's a magnet for bricking and does nothing more than drain your battery more.00:21
SpeedEvilOverclocking can cause massive filesystem corruption.00:21
kerioSpeedEvil: huh?00:21
trumeekerio, nope never played an fps with a controller.00:21
SpeedEvilkerio: What do you mean how.00:21
TiagoTiagoisn't iut supposed to make battery last longer? It make thing be done is less time, and it uses lower voltages and stuff00:21
steinextommorrow people are installing gentoo on n900, compiling everything to squeeze out the last ms or smsthng.00:21
kerioSpeedEvil: must be one hell of a cpu fuckup00:21
SpeedEvilkerio: 2+2=5 - and suddenly your filesystem gets a whole lort more surreal.00:21
trumeekerio, but sixaxis would be better than N900 keyb00:22
steinexi mean - wtf :D00:22
greenflysteinex: probably more accurate to say tomorrow they are /starting/ to install it :)00:22
GAN900SpeedEvil, Surrealist FS is so much more fun, though.00:22
kerioSpeedEvil: we need a quantistic filesystem00:23
keriothat's always in a entangled state of consistant and inconsistant00:23
keriotrumee: hmm00:23
TiagoTiagois i manage to acess it with ssh, is there a checkdisk or somthign i can run?00:23
keriogamegripper + stylus to aim?00:23
keriothat's the only thing i can think of00:24
keriobut then you can't shoot00:24
*** tkharju has left #maemo00:24
keriomeh, game gripper + bt mouse00:24
steinexTiagoTiago: long story short - if you reboot at normal speed and things are still screwed you most probably screwed your device.00:24
kerioTiagoTiago: hmm00:25
keriothe fs is definetely fucked00:25
steinexTiagoTiago: i really hope a reflash will fix it, but i doubt it00:25
kerioso reflash00:25
keriowhy wouldn't it fix stuff00:25
kerioit's not like he fucked up the eMMC00:25
TiagoTiagoif the damage was physical00:25
keriohe temporarily fucked up the cpu00:25
keriohope it will go back to normal00:25
kerioand DON'T OVERCLOCK00:25
drizztbsdtomorrow I will charge the battery using the hardware-lab power source, with 3.7 v and 900mA00:26
TiagoTiagoi hate how there are those scary warnings and yet people all keep trying to push others to do it too :(00:26
kerioTiagoTiago: it's because we're looking for lab rats00:27
Arkenoidamn i do not have working google sync solution anymore. first stopped working for me, now nuevasync is all fscked up00:27
TiagoTiagois there any chance i'll not have to reinswtall everything?00:28
kerioTiagoTiago: probably not00:28
kerio*this* kind of fuckup is only solved by a full reinstall00:28
keriobecause really, you don't have a way to check *what* has been lost00:28
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo00:28
TiagoTiagowhy i can't run a chkdisk to fix the fs?00:29
lcukok TiagoTiago, just open x-term and run fsck00:29
*** asj_ has joined #maemo00:29
TiagoTiagois it jsut gonna tell me it can't do it, or is it gonna fuck things up even worse?00:30
lcukidk, i thought you couldnt even bootup00:30
TiagoTiagoi can, but the font i9s gone, it's all squares00:30
TiagoTiagoi can access via SSH though00:30
lcukyou have lost your /opt partition then00:30
*** guardian has joined #maemo00:31
lcukthen go and see whats there00:31
lcuksee if mydocs is etc00:31
TiagoTiagopymaemo and nothign else last i checked00:31
lcukmydocs is most important i would imagine00:31
lcuksince thats where your data is00:31
TiagoTiagobooting up again to see if fsck works00:32
lcukwell see if the folderrs exist first00:32
lcukits missing a mount00:32
lcuki didnt think you could get in00:32
TiagoTiagoi shut it down cause i remember reading that file system keeps rotating the files around and would continuously fuck thigns more and more once somthing goes wrong00:32
lcukwell you overclocking has already done that really00:33
TiagoTiagoinside /opt it only has pymaemo00:34
TiagoTiagoMyDocs seems to be intact00:34
TiagoTiagoat least it is there and has many files and folders inside00:35
*** FIQ has quit IRC00:35
lcukTiagoTiago, a suggestion: back them up00:35
lcukyou have ssh00:36
lcukdo you have usb00:36
TiagoTiagoi'm connecting via wifi though00:36
lcukbut really, your device is being odd00:36
lcukyou still have access to it00:36
lcukplug it into usb00:36
lcukand see if mydocs mounts through00:36
lcukand copy that way00:36
* lcuk actually ponders where the mount has gone00:37
TiagoTiagocrap, it rebooted when i pluged the USB00:37
lcuktry it when you arent in the mydocs folder using ssh00:37
*** Jajjax has quit IRC00:37
lcukhey marius00:38
mgedmin/opt is a symlink to /home/opt; /home is an ext2 partition, /home/MyDocs is a vfat partition00:38
mgedminif /home is damaged, the /home/MyDocs mountpoint might not exist00:38
lcukmgedmin, he just said there were contents00:38
mgedminso even if all the documents are safe, they may not be accessible immediatelly00:38
lcuki was going to ask to check /home/opt00:38
lcuksince his /opt has reverted to a normal folder by the looks (pymaemo repopulates afaik00:39
mgedminI think /opt shouldn't affect things like fonts and textures00:39
lcukit does00:39
mgedmincustom themes?00:39
TiagoTiagono, the default one00:39
mgedminor base system moving stuff there?00:39
*** lbt has quit IRC00:39
* mgedmin wants a desktop widget with a button "GO ONLINE NOW"00:39
lcukmgedmin, pr1.2 optify boottime00:40
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo00:40
mgedmin(without giving me a list of connections, if any of the saved ones are available)00:40
lcukmgedmin, hmm00:41
mgedmintap-wait-tap-wait-wait-wait-tap is kinda annoying00:41
mgedminI'd rather just tap-wait00:41
lcukyou mean like triggering the "auto reconnect after every n minutes"00:41
lcukfor a one shot event00:41
mgedminmore like triggering the "auto connect because the user tried to open a web page"00:41
lcukmgedmin, auto reconnect will move to my home wifi when i get home00:41
lcukor wifi at other places00:42
mgedminI disabled auto reconnect, I think00:42
lcukwithout asking00:42
mgedminit did wonders to my battery life00:42
lcukyes, i gather00:42
mgedminso now I'm reluctant to reenable it00:42
lcukbut your button should trigger that action00:42
lcukonce only00:42
mgedminmy use case: I want to ssh in00:42
lcukunderstood totally00:42
Jaffamgedmin: Just have a link bookmark on your desktop00:42
lcukJaffa, it asks for network00:43
JaffaOr a bookmark to a page which shows, in big friendly letters, GO ONLINE NOW00:43
Jaffalcuk: Not if a saved connection is available00:43
mgedmintap-wait-wait-wait-wait-wait-tap-to-close-browser-window != tap-wait00:43
lcuki have about 10 saved connections00:43
lcukit always asks00:43
mgedminheh, bookmargin would be a nifty idea00:43
mgedminwhat do you mean, a parking page?00:44
*** LjL is now known as LJL00:44
TiagoTiagonow when i plug the USB nothign is happeneing :(00:44
mgedmindid it expire?00:44
mgedminI loved that domain and the big friendly letters saying "YES" :(00:45
keriosomeone should really reregister it00:45
lcukthen just unplug usb and use wifi00:45
TiagoTiagoi haven't managed to set up the file sharing over network yet (i have WinXP on my desktop machine)00:45
*** monoceros has quit IRC00:46
lcukTiagoTiago, winscp00:46
keriomgedmin: we still have
TiagoTiagoah. ft´. pl00:46
TiagoTiagoah, ftp, ok00:46
mgedminso, /home/opt is bind-mounted on /opt nowadays00:46
TiagoTiagostuff gonna take ages to download via wifi :(00:46
lcukand TiagoTiago when you do reconnect to ssh, just tell us whats inside /home/opt00:46
TiagoTiagoa folder called pymaemo00:46
kerioas interesting as cancer00:47
*** pablo2 has quit IRC00:47
TiagoTiagohow do i use fsck to try to recover opt?00:49
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo00:49
mgedminTiagoTiago, don't00:49
TiagoTiagowhy not?00:49
mgedminfirst run dmesg, see if there are any filesystem errors00:50
lcukit wont recover00:50
lcukthe contents are gone00:50
lcukand replaced00:50
lcukif /home/opt doesnt contain the right stuff00:50
lcuknowhere will00:50
*** lbt has joined #maemo00:50
*** FireFly has quit IRC00:50
*** Rhoruns has quit IRC00:51
*** monoceros has joined #maemo00:51
*** esaym153 has quit IRC00:51
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC00:52
*** benh has joined #maemo00:52
*** rcg1 has quit IRC00:53
TiagoTiagocan't the right data still be there but the file system is simply not pointing tot he right place?00:54
*** luizirber has quit IRC00:54
*** mikecomputing has quit IRC00:55
*** kthomas has quit IRC00:55
TiagoTiagothe result from demesg
lcukTiagoTiago, pastebin contents of /var/log/maemo-optify-boottime.log00:56
*** DrGrov has joined #maemo00:56
DocScrutinizer51tnhings like 'stale NFS' are equal to wontfix/reflash in my book00:56
lcukok ta00:58
*** esaym153 has joined #maemo00:58
lcuki notice you have a memory card btw00:58
lcukyou may be able to copy mydocs contents onto it00:58
lcukthat last one tells nothing unfortunately00:59
TiagoTiagoi don't have one 0.000:59
lcukhow did you get into this state00:59
lcukdoh yeah thats swap partition, my tired eyes too00:59
lcuklooks like wifi00:59
TiagoTiagomy guess is by succumbing to peer pressure and OC'ing to 90001:00
TiagoTiagoi noticed there were not respositories in HAM so i shut down and back on, and things got worse on each new boot01:01
TiagoTiagothere were no*01:01
*** jrocha has quit IRC01:01
TiagoTiagois there a way i can trigger the USB mass storage mode with a command via SSH?01:02
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC01:03
lcukdoubtful, if action of plugging in usb cable reboots it..01:03
TiagoTiagonow it isn't doing anything01:03
lcuki wonder what would happen if you replaced contents of /home/opt with a folder taken from a clean device01:04
*** MadViking has quit IRC01:05
* lcuk will have to try that01:05
mgedminwell, normally reflashing doesn't erase MyDocs01:05
TiagoTiagowould be almost as bad as reflashing01:05
lcukyou have to reflash01:05
mgedminso you should get all the builtin apps in / and on first boot maemo-optify-boottime would move the right stuff to /home/opt01:05
mgedminjust don't reflash the eMMC, that would erase MyDocs01:05
lcukthats what happens mg01:05
lcukyes ahh mgedmin of course :) main rootfs image only and see whether it does its work01:06
*** MadViking has joined #maemo01:06
lcukbut if it was me with device in this state i would copy off first01:06
*** genewitch has joined #maemo01:06
TiagoTiagoius the /opt partition gonna be remade?01:07
lcukwe dont know01:07
lcuki would say, assume no01:07
lcukand backup while you can :)01:07
* lcuk is a data pessamist01:08
TiagoTiagoa, great, the page to download the image is asking me for the code under the battery, will have to start copying stuff over all over again, or waittill it's done01:08
lcukwait till done01:08
TiagoTiagois there a way i can check whether the current /opt is pointing to the right place?01:08
TiagoTiagovia SSH01:09
*** kthomas has joined #maemo01:09
*** Funnyface has quit IRC01:09
lcukcheck output of mount01:09
TiagoTiagojust type mount?01:09
wazdbusted :)01:09
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo01:10
lcukwazd, r2d2 is also going to sue01:10
Arkenoitried syncevolution, no luck as well. says device not supported01:10
TiagoTiagoit only says /home/opt is pointing to /opt01:11
wazdlcuk: well, r2d2 does not have antenas or eyes :) Or arms :)01:11
*** kthomas has quit IRC01:11
TiagoTiagohe does have telescopic limbs though01:11
*** kthomas has joined #maemo01:12
*** sepultina has quit IRC01:12
lcukwazd, theres realistically only a few ways to draw an android01:12
TiagoTiagooh, talking about the logo, nvm01:12
wazdlcuk: well, that's clearly a copy :) Even eyes are in the same places :)01:12
wazdlcuk: not that much exact copy to sue anyone but still :)01:13
lcukandroid shaped things look like androids!01:13
TiagoTiagonot exactly01:13
jacekowskiis there anything worth seeing in bergen in norway?01:13
TiagoTiagoalso,. the line is in a different height, the antennas are straight and not curved, and the bottom is rounded square isntead of plain round01:14
jacekowskiassuming that i would go there for a weekend01:14
wazdlcuk: btw, any bipedal "human like" mech is an android :)01:14
TiagoTiago912 files left*01:14
wazdlcuk: so there are unlimited ways to draw an android :)01:15
TiagoTiagoThey could have gone with Asimo01:15
wazdlcuk: for example :)01:16
TiagoTiagoi can't get prduct id via ssh?01:16
jacekowskifrom cal01:17
jacekowskiwell, i can01:17
jacekowskibut i'm not sure if there is software for it01:17
*** murrayc has quit IRC01:18
TiagoTiagoi just type cal?01:18
TiagoTiagocrap, rebooted :(01:19
lcukwhat does the maemo or meego icon look like01:19
lcukdescribe it to someone01:19
*** DrGrov has left #maemo01:19
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo01:20
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC01:20
TiagoTiagohm, is iit an lower case A biting a lower case E?01:20
*** johnsq has quit IRC01:21
TiagoTiagogreat, product code not being accepted01:21
lcuksearching google images for maemo gives obvious maemo typefaced logo with the ae joined together and a yellow e01:22
lcuksearching google images for meego shows nothing01:22
lcukfor meego the os01:22
*** the_lord has quit IRC01:22
TiagoTiagoah, there01:22
*** the_lord has joined #maemo01:22
*** __a has quit IRC01:22
lcukmeego meegos are the default hit
ieatlintsomeone needs to find the marketing team that came up with that name and hurt them01:24
lcukand walkter meego (whoever he is) features quite a lot01:24
lcukthe maemo one is ok, it couldv been bettter with an icon01:24
lcukbut the ae works01:24
*** guardian has quit IRC01:26
ieatlintyeah, maemo could've done better with a logo or some sort of mascot01:26
lcukwe had a maemo mascot competition01:26
TiagoTiagois there a way i can boot the N900 directly into mass storage mode?01:26
lcukloads of great entries01:26
lcukTiagoTiago, normally just plugging it into usb when its "off" works01:27
lcukbut your device is borkened a bit01:27
ieatlintuh, what won then?01:27
*** chadi has joined #maemo01:28
*** gomiam has quit IRC01:28
lcukidk we were just throwing ideas out01:28
lcukill find the thread01:28
chadihi. I want to try nitdroid. should I get an external memory card or install in built in memory?01:28
lcuksorry, not competition, proposal01:29
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC01:29
*** noaXess has left #maemo01:29
chadiand what class of memory cards is the built in emmc?01:30
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo01:30
lcuka texrat idea01:31
lcukieatlint, have a look and make some noise about it01:31
lcukbring thread back to life actually :P01:31
ieatlintmeh.. a maemo mascot would have to be a tad self deprecating i think01:32
*** fmeyer has joined #maemo01:32
ieatlinthumour and humility01:33
*** fmeyer has quit IRC01:33
lcukieatlint, then look through01:33
lcuktheres some serious ones01:33
lcukand not so serious01:33
*** fmeyer has joined #maemo01:33
ieatlintyeah, i see a raccoon one that appears to be serious01:33
lcukthat theme stuck for many pages01:34
ieatlintonly if i get to shout "damn coons"01:34
lcukdamn, its threads like this that we should have picture thumbnail viewer for01:34
lcukclick a thread and see all thumbs of all images within thread01:34
TiagoTiagogreat, now Windows isn't recognizing new plugged USB devices01:35
ieatlintnow i'm on to cows01:35
* ieatlint misses larry the cow01:35
ieatlinthaha, page 24 of that thread causes chromium to warn me that malware is detected01:35
ieatlint"The website at contains elements from the site, which appears to host malware"01:36
*** TiagoTiago has quit IRC01:36
lcukieatlint, its those pictures on the first post on that page!01:37
lcukanyway, i am offski01:38
jacekowskinokia C301:38
ieatlinthaha, i only noticed there was a phone in that video right at the end01:39
asjwhat phone?01:39
ieatlintyou'll see it at the end of the video01:40
*** guardian has joined #maemo01:40
*** BCMM_ has quit IRC01:40
* asj plays it again01:40
*** millenomi has joined #maemo01:40
asjnope, maybe I need to replay it full screen01:41
keriothe "down arrow" icon in the title bar is corrupted01:42
kerioand for all the windows01:42
*** Guest58787 has joined #maemo01:43
*** LJL is now known as Guest7637501:43
*** Guest58787 is now known as LjL01:43
*** Guest76375 has quit IRC01:44
keriohow's that possible01:45
asjkerio: isnt it jsut a png file on / ?01:46
ieatlintit uses the same pixmap in memory for all instances?01:46
keriodon't know01:46
kerioieatlint: how do i reset it?01:46
ieatlinti dunno, i'm just speculating01:46
asjit survives reboot?01:46
kerioit's probably something wm-related, so yeah01:46
kerioasj: dunno01:46
asjah just kill the wm then01:46
kerionah, i'll switch theme01:47
MNZtry /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop restart01:47
*** KMFDM has quit IRC01:48
keriochanging theme worked01:49
keriobut now it's all orange while the keyboard is white and blue :(01:49
kerioit was a weird glitch01:50
kerionow it's back to normal01:50
*** mardi has joined #maemo01:51
*** david__ has joined #maemo01:54
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo01:55
*** Muelli has quit IRC01:55
*** chenca has quit IRC01:56
MNZI just hacked up libhildon very badly and waiting for a build to finish :D lets see what this shit will do01:57
*** the_lord has quit IRC01:57
pupnikwhy hack libhildon MNZ ?02:08
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC02:08
*** BCMM has quit IRC02:08
*** Muelli has joined #maemo02:09
*** croppa has quit IRC02:10
MNZpupnik, I wanted to try to have scrolling like in liqcalendar..... not easy. Also, mostly because I was burnt out from all the IIR filter literature XD02:11
MNZ(IIR filter == filter used on the audio codec that I need to understand for hardware eq)02:12
pupnikisn't there some way you can avoid learning it02:13
*** nuovodna has quit IRC02:13
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:14
*** n900evil has quit IRC02:14
MNZwell, there is. I can just bake some presets like bass/treble boost, midrange, etc directly into the kernel after designing them with this calculator program I found on texas intrument's site02:14
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo02:14
MNZthough this is the more fun way lol learning a nice bit about DSP along the way02:15
*** SpeedEvil1 has quit IRC02:15
pupnikif you can get the dsp to output a sine wave, i got some fun code to run on it02:16
*** millenomi has quit IRC02:16
MNZpupnik, fun code?02:17
pupnikyeah yamaha fmopl02:17
pupnikfor scummvm, dosbox02:18
pupnikcould get some nice smooth audio that way02:19
MNZnope that's not really to be done in hardware02:19
*** ali1234 has joined #maemo02:22
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC02:22
v2pxwow. i just found out about the qt creator02:24
v2pxlooks nice and its not all messed up like the sdk02:25
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC02:26
*** diegohcg has quit IRC02:26
*** TiagoTiago has joined #maemo02:30
*** Dialekt has joined #maemo02:30
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo02:30
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC02:31
TiagoTiagonow it will show as two removable drives, both without any media inside02:31
*** babsher_ has quit IRC02:31
*** cardinal has joined #maemo02:33
*** cardinal is now known as hcarrega02:34
*** Mousey has quit IRC02:36
TiagoTiagois it still flashable?02:36
*** florian has quit IRC02:37
*** Tuco111 has quit IRC02:37
TiagoTiagoalso, can i flash without touching MyDocs and still get it working again?02:37
*** Tuco111 has joined #maemo02:37
*** chadi has quit IRC02:40
*** lolloo has joined #maemo02:41
SpeedEvilMNZ: :)02:41
lollooi installed  power-kernel to install titan kernel02:41
MNZSpeedEvil, :-?02:42
lollooand i restared the fone02:42
lolloobut when i type uname -r02:42
lollooit seemed kernel didnt change02:42
lollooi want to overclock my n90002:42
infobot"OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"02:42
lollooany one can help me please02:43
lolloowell titan kernel is better for cpu02:43
lollooit uses less power than the default ones02:43
lolloobut i cant seem to load the kernel02:43
lollooany tips please02:44
TiagoTiagololloo: i qould recomend against, i might have lost everything i had stored because of overclocking (i haven't managed to get it to work again so far)02:44
lollooyes ur right02:44
lolloobut maybe for future reference please02:45
Dhraakellianso I (temporarily) enabled -testing and -devel, but apt-get install mut complains about slang1a-ut8 (> 1.4.9dbs-4) not being available02:45
lolloohow can load titan kernel02:45
Dhraakellianstep one: back up everything?02:45
lollooyes please02:45
lollooi did no worries02:45
TiagoTiagoeverything was just fine untill i decifded to try the low voltage high clock stuff everyone was talking about, peer pressure is a bitch :(02:46
lollooi have nitdroid installed02:46
lolloowith multiboot02:46
lolloomaybe thats the problem02:47
TiagoTiagoi hope a bunch of people don't go jump off a bridge <.<02:47
MNZlolloo, what he's trying to say is, don't overclock or your phone will die a premature death02:47
lolloofor kernel not booting02:47
lolloook thanks guys02:47
TiagoTiagoi dunno how to help with getting Titan kernel working, with me it was a breeze, did it all with HAM and never got any errors02:48
lolloowhats ham02:48
TiagoTiagoHildon Applications Manager02:48
*** MadViking has quit IRC02:48
TiagoTiagothe thingy you use to install progs from repos02:49
*** Dialekt_ has joined #maemo02:49
lollooapp amanger?02:49
*** panaggio has quit IRC02:50
TiagoTiagothat one that loads when you click the green install arrow in webpages02:50
*** blizzow has quit IRC02:50
TiagoTiagothat is probably the one02:50
*** e-yes has quit IRC02:50
lolloodo u know multiboot program02:51
TiagoTiagonot in person02:51
lolloocan i add Titan kernel in the list02:51
lollooin the boot menu02:51
*** Dialekt_ has quit IRC02:52
TiagoTiagoi imagine you would need to create a copy of the vanilla system, boot in it, and install the kernel from there, but others here might have a better approach02:52
Dhraakellianhmm... I'm told that GMail's web interface now has an option to mark part of a thread as unread02:52
*** Dialekt_ has joined #maemo02:52
Dhraakellianwould still like nested threading though02:52
MNZSpeedEvil, ??02:53
*** Dialekt has quit IRC02:53
*** Dialekt_ is now known as Dialekt02:53
lollooi did get-ap02:54
lolloofor kernel power user02:54
lolloobut still titan kernel is not loaded02:55
lollooeven if i reboot02:55
lolloook nvm02:55
lollooits not a big deal02:55
lolloobut u know us geeka02:55
TiagoTiagodid you find it on HAM ?02:55
lolloosrry mate no i didnt02:55
lolloowhere is it02:55
TiagoTiagojust go to All and start typing "Titan"02:56
*** Dialekt has quit IRC02:56
TiagoTiagoit might not be on regular Extra, you might need to enable testign and dev02:56
lolloohow would i do that please02:57
lollooif u dont mind02:57
lolloohow can i enable it awesome dude02:59
lollootyt mate02:59
SpeedEvilMNZ: I was responding to yourr 'learning about DSP' comment.03:00
infobotrepositories are frequently old.03:00
lollooshall i type it in terminal03:01
GAN900Rice cookers work better when you put water in WITH the rice.03:02
MNZSpeedEvil, heh didn't correlate, the latency was too high :P03:02
*** blizzow has joined #maemo03:02
SpeedEvilHmm. I wonder if you could make rice crispies in a popcorn cannon.03:02
*** `0660 has quit IRC03:03
lolloorice comes with meat03:03
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC03:03
*** e-yes has joined #maemo03:03
*** dvarnes_ has quit IRC03:03
TiagoTiagodoes anyone got a link handy for lolloo about enabling test and dev repos?03:04
lolloooh man thank you so much dont worry brother03:05
TiagoTiagoif i hadn't trashed my system i would be able to just chec what the options are called03:06
*** pH5 has quit IRC03:06
*** zeltak has joined #maemo03:06
*** mlfoster has quit IRC03:08
*** willer_ has quit IRC03:11
*** yrgd has joined #maemo03:12
TiagoTiagowhat parameters do i feed the flasher to reflash everything but MyDocs?03:13
*** misc-- has quit IRC03:13
TiagoTiagololloo: check the menu in HAM, see if you can find the options03:13
*** lolloo has quit IRC03:15
*** hardaker2 has joined #maemo03:16
TiagoTiagoflasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R will leav MyDocs intact but rewrite everything else?03:16
TiagoTiagoWhere is everyone? o.o03:18
*** wazd has quit IRC03:18
*** monoceros has quit IRC03:19
*** zeq1 has quit IRC03:19
MNZTiagoTiago, yes, that should leave MyDocs intact. MyDocs is on the eMMC, only the eMMC image would overwrite it03:19
*** yrgd has quit IRC03:20
MNZthough that image is pretty old03:20
TiagoTiagoah, no,i got a newer image, i jsut copy pasted the example fromt he wiki, i wrote the right one in the command line03:20
MNZah yes03:20
TiagoTiagohm, that was fast03:20
TiagoTiagoNOkia ROM device detected03:21
TiagoTiagoerm, problem installing drivers, the device might not work correctly :(03:21
MNZyou are on windoze?03:21
*** n900evil has joined #maemo03:21
TiagoTiagoWinXP SP303:21
MNZAh, I haven't yet witnessed a flashing ceremony on windoze03:22
* MNZ brings popcorn03:22
*** yrgd has joined #maemo03:24
*** david__ has quit IRC03:25
pupnikcould be worse03:29
*** rosseaux has quit IRC03:30
*** lolloo has joined #maemo03:30
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo03:31
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo03:32
*** monoceros has joined #maemo03:33
*** panaggio has joined #maemo03:33
TiagoTiagodoes that command also rewrites the /opt partition?03:33
TiagoTiagoMNZ ?03:34
pigeondoes the window manger on the n900 caches the "view" application on disk or in ram?03:34
MNZTiagoTiago, no, opt is inside MyDocs actually03:34
*** yrgd has quit IRC03:35
TiagoTiagois there a way i can write /opt but leave MyDocs intact?03:35
TiagoTiagoit's the same flashdrive, but not the same partition, right?03:35
MNZsorry not inside MyDocs03:35
*** Jucato_ has quit IRC03:35
MNZI meant on the eMMC03:35
MNZin /home03:35
SpeedEvilpigeon: The task switcher images are live03:35
SpeedEvilpigeon: composited03:36
pigeonSpeedEvil: how about like when you lauch an app?03:36
TiagoTiagodo you know how i can recreate the /opt partition with it's contents but leagve MyDocs intact?03:36
pigeonI noticed it sometimes first show the screen of the app, but it's an older one of it, if you know what i mean03:36
TiagoTiagoperhaps some apps update their windows slower when they aren't focused?03:37
pigeonlike i launch the e-mail client, it does that animated popup thing, but the app still loading, and it is showing a screen that is like at its last state or something like that.03:37
*** rosseaux has quit IRC03:38
MNZlcuk, I just got liqbase's kinetic scrolling into gtk03:38
SpeedEvilpigeon: That's stored somewhere - I'm unsure where though03:38
pigeonand usually very old.03:38
*** guerremdq has quit IRC03:39
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo03:40
TiagoTiagoi gotta go eat, be back in a bit03:41
*** fmeyer has quit IRC03:42
*** FatalSaint has quit IRC03:43
*** rosseaux has quit IRC03:45
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo03:48
*** guerremdq has joined #maemo03:52
TiagoTiagodoes anyone know how i can recreate the /opt partition (with it's contents) without loosing the contents of MyDocs?03:54
MNZcopy MyDocs out, flash eMMC, copying MyDocs in03:54
MNZand I forgot to mention before you flash rootfs.... did you take a backup from the backup manager?03:55
TiagoTiagocan't, i tried via WIFI but the device rebooted before even reaching half, and it doesn't work via USB, it shows as two removable drives without media inside03:55
TiagoTiago /opt is fucked up, no images, no fonts, and no sounds are loading03:56
TiagoTiagothe device is pretty much unusable03:56
MNZyou have got to flash eMMC then...03:56
MNZwell, try moving MyDocs part by part?03:56
TiagoTiagothere gotta be a way to only write to the /opt partition03:56
ali1234there's always a way03:57
MNZ /opt is not a partition03:57
TiagoTiagoi thought it wasx a partition in the eMMC, together with MyDocs and i think the swap03:57
TiagoTiagoi mean, those other two are the other partitions there03:58
MNZonly way I can think of is: take backup from backup manager, select 'Application list', back up. Download eMMC image, unpack image, copy only stuff from /home/opt in image to /home/opt on device, recover backup to reinstall all your apps03:58
*** guerremdq has quit IRC03:58
*** kkb110 has quit IRC03:58
TiagoTiagohow if no icons nor the text under them will show?03:58
MNZrun from ssh03:59
*** zeq has joined #maemo03:59
TiagoTiagodoes it got a text interface or will it load the GUI in the device?03:59
MNZNokia-N900:~# /usr/bin/maemo-invoker /usr/bin/osso-backup.launch03:59
MNZit will load gui... you can manage with no icons/text I think04:00
MNZ"New Backup" is the first button on the left04:00
MNZthen "Proceed" on the right in the dialog that comes up04:00
TiagoTiagowhat about things like the files inside MyDocs, text files, photos etc?04:00
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo04:01
ali1234if you have networking, why don't you just copy out the whole eMMC, repair it on another machine, then put it back?04:01
MNZno those are not backed up, this just gets your calendar/contacts/installed apps/etc04:01
MNZthing is, you can move in /opt stuff from an unpacked eMMC image04:01
TiagoTiagoi tried downloading mydocs with FTP via wifi but the device rebooted before it even got to half04:01
ali1234yeah... don't use ftp04:02
TiagoTiagoi haven't managed to make my Windows desktop see fodlers in my N900 nor the other way around04:02
ali1234oh... windows04:03
TiagoTiagoyeah :/04:03
ali1234well fwiw this is what i would do04:04
MNZactually... that extracting opt from the eMMC image thing.... will need a linux machine AFAIT04:04
TiagoTiagoit will loose all the metadata if extracted under Windows, no?04:04
*** zeq has quit IRC04:05
MNZor wait04:05
*** zeq has joined #maemo04:05
MNZno, it's vfat. you just need to find a tool to mount the image04:05
MNZI know there are tools around for that04:05
ali1234the /opt part is not04:05
ali1234the part you actually need04:06
MNZoh sorry yeah04:06
MNZyou don't really need to extract it on windows04:06
MNZif it's not that big you can just move it over to the device04:07
*** fmeyer has joined #maemo04:07
TiagoTiagois thre a way i can repair the /opt entry in the file system so it points to where it used to?04:07
ali1234it's just a symlink04:07
ali1234what exactly have you done, i missed the start of this04:07
MNZTiagoTiago, run this on ssh: mount | grep opt04:07
TiagoTiagoi dunno, my ugess is overclocking fucked up the /opt partition, or the part in rootfs that points to it04:08
ali1234hah, no04:08
TiagoTiagobooting up04:08
*** lolloo has quit IRC04:09
*** fmeyer has quit IRC04:10
* Dhraakellian tries to remember who recommended mutt to him04:10
*** fmeyer has joined #maemo04:10
Dhraakellianwas going to ask how he got it installed04:10
Dhraakellian...although asking in general would probably be just as good, if not better04:11
*** fmeyer has quit IRC04:11
Dhraakelliansince I'm getting an error about a missing dependency when I try to install with apt04:11
*** fmeyer has joined #maemo04:11
ali1234TiagoTiago: so what's actually wrong with opt?04:12
TiagoTiagothe one that was there isn't there anymore, it only got that pymaemo folder instead of everything04:13
ali1234pastebin the full output of mount04:13
*** _0x47 has quit IRC04:13
*** guardian has quit IRC04:15
*** rosseaux has quit IRC04:15
ali1234well if you lost all the stuff in opt, reflashing wont help anyway04:16
ali1234you'd need to reinstall all your packages04:16
*** user____ has joined #maemo04:16
*** fmeyer_ has joined #maemo04:16
user____why arent there any connections when i select gsm04:16
TiagoTiagono, even the system stuff, like fonts and sounds is missing04:16
user____using tmo04:17
ali1234TiagoTiago: at this point your best option is to backup everything you can recover and reflash the whole lot04:18
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo04:18
ali1234you could try cutting the mmcblk0p2 partition from the eMMC flash images, uploading it, mounting loopback, and then copying the files04:19
*** swo has joined #maemo04:19
*** Rhoruns_ has joined #maemo04:20
*** fmeyer has quit IRC04:20
*** panaggio has left #maemo04:20
*** benh has quit IRC04:21
*** rosseaux has quit IRC04:22
johnxallo all04:22
TiagoTiagogonna try downloading via FTP again04:22
*** S-Wo has quit IRC04:23
johnxTiagoTiago, the first thing you should do is backup data your care about in case trying to fix it makes it worse04:23
TiagoTiagothat is a good advice04:24
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo04:25
user____does your connection work when you select gsm only?04:25
*** fmeyer_ has quit IRC04:26
*** luizirber has joined #maemo04:27
*** eggonlea has joined #maemo04:27
johnxuser____, yes04:28
user____oh why?04:33
johnxare you asking me why it works?04:34
SpeedEvilSome companies do not have GSM service.04:34
lcukTiagoTiago, 3 hours ago you started backing up your data04:35
lcukhope its going ok04:35
mortinilcuk: etching binary in stone takes *time*04:36
*** luizirber has quit IRC04:36
*** merlincorey has quit IRC04:36
*** merlincorey has joined #maemo04:36
lcukhey johnx04:36
johnxhey lcuk. you should get some sleep :P04:36
user____cause when i was in europe it worked fine04:37
lcukbeen there tried that got woken up again by jake04:37
lcukhavin a smoke and laying down again tho :)04:37
johnxuser____, are you on t-mobile US?04:37
lcukand TiagoTiago once you have backed up everything, flashing just the rootfs image gives best chance of recreating rootfs + opt without touching your data.  but that does not mean it will work.04:38
* lcuk sleeps 04:39
*** kkb110 has quit IRC04:39
johnx'night lcuk :)04:39
*** rosseaux has quit IRC04:39
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo04:39
TiagoTiagoit failed, i'll try again04:40
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo04:42
*** MadViking has joined #maemo04:44
TiagoTiago1003 files left right now :/04:47
johnxhow are you trying to back up?04:49
*** pyther has left #maemo04:50
*** andax has quit IRC04:54
TiagoTiagovia ftp04:55
*** kthomas has quit IRC04:55
TiagoTiagosecure ftp that is04:55
johnxuhm, can you just plug the N900 into a computer and backup in usb mass storage mode?04:56
TiagoTiagoit showa as two removable drives with no media inside04:56
TiagoTiago941 files left right now.....04:57
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo05:00
*** kkb110 has quit IRC05:02
*** rosseaux has quit IRC05:03
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo05:03
*** jabis has quit IRC05:08
zeltakhi..anyone knows if there is a key shortcut to close apps (ala alt-f4)?05:08
SpeedEvilthe power key05:09
*** lolloo has joined #maemo05:09
SpeedEvilMore sanely - I don't think tehre si a way to do that05:10
zeltakahh i see then press end current task05:10
SpeedEviloh - right - I thought you meant all apps05:11
SpeedEvilyeah - there is an end one app05:11
johnxyou can also press ctrl-backspace to get to the window switching view05:11
zeltakthx johnx yeah i use that but sometimes i crave a keyboard shortcut to quikly kill an app :)05:11
zeltak thx SpeedEvil ..btw any one use vice (c64 emulator) here?05:12
*** C-S-B has quit IRC05:12
ShadowJKI think I've managed to wear out a usb flash drive05:13
johnxShadowJK, cool. does it report its size as smaller than it used to?05:14
ShadowJKno it's reading back OK, but accepts no writes when jbd/ext3 tries to replay journal05:15
johnxfun times. will it repartition/reformat?05:15
lolloohow do i write in red here05:15
ShadowJKjohnx: not sure yet :)05:16
johnxlolloo, just put the word lolloo in your text05:16
ShadowJKI'm imaging it now to hd05:16
lollooya thats it05:16
ShadowJKI just want to get conf files off of it05:16
ShadowJKit was rootfs for my sheevapllug05:16
johnxhow's the sheeva treating you overall?05:17
ShadowJKand now my LAN/intarwebs is kinda fucked :)05:17
ShadowJKit's nice05:17
johnxI had a guruplug on pre-order, but that was right when everyone was having the overheating issues with them05:18
ShadowJKthough it has usb quirks, and I thought I was troubleshooting something like that at first when the flash disk read back ok in my pc05:18
ShadowJKwell the case on my plain sheeva does get to 45-50C or so05:18
johnx... so I canceled and got a QNAP TS-11905:18
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo05:19
ShadowJKcool; the image file mounted ok with loop05:20
*** msamour has joined #maemo05:20
ShadowJKalas my 20 minutes of spare time for today are at an end :(05:20
johnxwow. that's a harsh schedule05:20
ShadowJKah hell, I'll just violate some speed limits...05:20
johnxthat's what they exist for :>05:21
TiagoTiago red like this?05:21
lolloohow can i type in red i know it's nothing related05:22
*** msamour has left #maemo05:22
TiagoTiago%C foreground color, background color05:23
ShadowJKthis ocz flash drive has the nicest failure mode so far of all flash media I've had fail05:23
johnxShadowJK, yeah. that's why I'm curious how it failed05:23
johnxmost of mine have died of some other cause long before the actual flash wears out05:23
TiagoTiago depending on your client, if you start writing it shows the colors avaiable05:24
ShadowJKa transcend sd card just started returning /dev/random for constantly moving random blocks (well they moved after writing)05:24
ShadowJKan a-data card started giving errors on read, and locking up05:24
ShadowJKread of a specific sector, mind05:24
*** blizzow has quit IRC05:25
*** hcm has joined #maemo05:27
luke-jrMobile HotSpot doesn't work05:28
*** tripzero has joined #maemo05:30
tripzerolcuk, libmeegotouch on maemo is still b0rked05:30
*** hcm_ has quit IRC05:30
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:31
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:32
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:32
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:32
*** user____ has quit IRC05:33
TiagoTiagoseems it hit a big file, 913 files left for several minutes now.....05:34
ShadowJKluke-jr, did you reboot after installing it?05:35
ShadowJKit installs custom kernel, iirc05:35
*** tripzero has quit IRC05:35
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC05:35
*** blizzow has joined #maemo05:37
luke-jrShadowJK: no, it doesn't.05:38
luke-jrShadowJK: I have my own custom kernel05:38
luke-jrwhich is unaffected05:39
luke-jrI can get it to start and stuff05:40
luke-jrbut the minute my MBP tries to use it, the N900 reboots05:40
luke-jractually, Skype will even connect, and tracepath will trace05:40
luke-jrmaybe I should try reducing MBP MTU05:40
*** kkb110 has quit IRC05:41
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo05:41
luke-jrPre-Depends: kernel-feature-netfilter05:44
luke-jrthat's the closest thing in mobilehotspot's pkg05:44
luke-jrand my custom kernel DOES have netfilter…05:44
ali1234have you checked mtd2 for the reboot reason?05:44
*** lolloo has quit IRC05:47
*** fmeyer has joined #maemo05:48
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC05:48
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo05:50
luke-jrali1234: mtd2 is incomprehensible IMO05:50
luke-jrlots of panics, no dates/times05:51
*** nox- has quit IRC05:54
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo05:57
*** dockane_ has joined #maemo06:00
*** g55 has quit IRC06:01
*** dockane has quit IRC06:03
*** kkb110 has quit IRC06:06
*** g55 has joined #maemo06:08
*** FatalSaint has joined #maemo06:10
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC06:10
TiagoTiagohwo big is the easydeb image file again?06:13
*** shinkamui has joined #maemo06:17
*** booiiing|clone has quit IRC06:20
*** kamui__ has quit IRC06:21
*** booiiing has joined #maemo06:23
*** lolloo has joined #maemo06:24
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC06:24
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo06:25
*** pablo2 has joined #maemo06:28
*** merlincorey has quit IRC06:29
*** _Lucretia__ has quit IRC06:29
*** kimitake_idle has quit IRC06:29
*** sx0n has quit IRC06:29
*** straind has quit IRC06:29
*** robink has quit IRC06:31
*** robink has joined #maemo06:31
*** MNZ has quit IRC06:31
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC06:34
*** Finnish has joined #maemo06:35
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo06:35
*** sx0n has joined #maemo06:37
*** _Lucretia__ has joined #maemo06:37
luke-jrthis kernel-maemo thing works06:38
luke-jrbut wtf is it06:38
luke-jrand why doesn't fremantle?06:39
*** merlincorey has joined #maemo06:39
*** kimitake_idle has joined #maemo06:39
*** straind has joined #maemo06:39
lollooyes where id the directory06:39
*** briglia has quit IRC06:47
*** timoph|away is now known as timoph06:47
lolloohey guys06:49
lolloowhat is the command to look into a directory06:50
mortinier, just ls06:51
TiagoTiago242 files left, yay!06:53
*** radic has quit IRC06:54
mortini241 flies left!06:56
lolloohow can i check whats inside a directory06:56
mortiniuse the ls command to 'list' the contents06:57
lolloohow can i get multiboot-kernel-power into .nitdroid directory?06:58
lollooits not there06:59
lolloohow can i put it there?06:59
lolloohow please?07:02
TiagoTiagoerm, seems my provider might have decided to fuck up automated log ins again Dx07:03
TiagoTiagooh, crap,t hey want us to hire a content provider, i thought we already had one......07:04
*** Trizt has quit IRC07:05
*** Trizt has joined #maemo07:05
TiagoTiagointeresting, it seems IRC connections can slip by07:05
lolloohow can i install multiboot-kernel-power_0.3_armel.deb07:06
*** merlincorey has quit IRC07:07
*** merlincorey has joined #maemo07:07
TiagoTiagooh, it seems it was jsut a hicup07:07
*** radic has joined #maemo07:08
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo07:10
*** fmeyer has quit IRC07:13
* Dhraakellian installs claws07:14
*** john346523 has joined #maemo07:15
*** pablo2 has quit IRC07:20
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo07:22
*** blizzow has quit IRC07:22
*** fmeyer has joined #maemo07:25
*** Firebird has quit IRC07:25
*** MadViking has quit IRC07:26
*** lolloo has quit IRC07:26
*** MadViking has joined #maemo07:27
*** fmeyer has quit IRC07:29
TiagoTiagooh oh 0.007:31
TiagoTiagoseems it didn't count all the files in the beggining, it jumped from 169 files left to 915 files left :(07:31
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:34
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo07:34
*** valdyn has quit IRC07:34
*** luke-jr_ has joined #maemo07:40
*** luke-jr has quit IRC07:40
*** luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr07:41
*** valdyn has joined #maemo07:41
*** illmortal has joined #maemo07:44
luke-jrso anyhow… where's the source for kernel-maemo? -.-07:44
luke-jror I suppose it'd be better to try mainline first07:45
illmortalhey guys... I'd like to dual boot my OQO micro computer with Windows 7 and possible Maemo, I'd use Maemo specifically for playing Music and surfing the internet, nothing else. Can Maemo be installed as a small OS for a pc/07:46
SpeedEvilMaemo has closed source componenets, and cannot be booted on x8607:46
SpeedEvilthe opensoruce components of course can - see meego07:47
illmortalthat's unfortunate. thank you, speedevil.. and thanks again for the recommendation!07:47
*** illmortal has left #maemo07:48
zr0is UMA likely to be added to the n900?07:49
SpeedEvilThe modem bit is basically not being developed much further.07:50
SpeedEvilApps like that need to reach deep into the modem.07:50
TiagoTiagotalking about Maemo on the PC, do you know where i can get a Windows port of microB?07:51
zr0so the gsm stack is all closed source?07:51
zr0unlicensed mobile access07:52
SpeedEvilzr0: yes07:52
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Think GSM-over-wifi tunneling07:52
zr0wow.. that's fucking lame07:52
SpeedEvilzr0: Opening the source of the modem would actually be illegal in some countries.07:52
zr0mmm, more voip via tunneling to tmobile with gsm handover07:53
TiagoTiagoyesterday i saw this page about homemade cell phones, i didn't read much 'cause i had to leave, and then i forgot about it, perhaps they know the secrets07:53
cehtehsecurity by obscurity by law :P07:53
zr0SpeedEvil: that doesn't make any sense..07:53
SpeedEvilFor example in the UK, once someone does something bad with it - and you don't fix it - you're liable for selling hacking tools.07:53
SpeedEvilzr0: no - nothing like that.07:53
luke-jrSpeedEvil: actually, I think the law requires it to be unmodifiable, not closed07:53
SpeedEvilzr0: It is specifically tunneling the GSM protocol over wifi.07:53
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Fair point.07:53
luke-jrwhich is accomplished via DRM on N90007:54
SpeedEvilzr0: The wifi point (or whatever other non-GSM network) acts like a tunnel to a virtual GSM base-station.07:54
SpeedEvilzr0: The GSM handover happens between this basestation, and the normal ones seamlessly.07:54
zr0seems like it would be pretty easy to implement then07:55
SpeedEvilIT's not.07:55
*** fbc217 has joined #maemo07:55
SpeedEvilIt requires the software stack to be able to hand off calls to the modem, and the reverse.07:55
SpeedEvilThis requires deep hooks into the modem.07:55
luke-jrSpeedEvil: the N900 software stack can't control calls?07:56
SpeedEvilIt's at a lower level than that.07:56
SpeedEvilluke-jr: a UMA connection is basically another GSM tower. But one that comes through the wifi interface.07:57
zr0basically, you need to modify the gsm modem's driver07:57
luke-jrzr0: the driver is 100% open07:57
luke-jrzr0: just not the modem firmware07:57
SpeedEvilYou need to modify the GSM modem too.07:57
*** fbc217 has left #maemo07:57
zr0are you guys sure about that?07:57
SpeedEvilThis functionality has to be written into the modem - most don't support it.07:57
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo07:58
*** raster has joined #maemo07:58
SpeedEvilThere is no way to query the SIM in a platform independant way to auth the wifi connection, for one thing.07:58
zr0but during the handovers aren't you essentially resetting the modem?07:58
zr0so the modem still thinks it's connected?07:59
SpeedEvilA) you detect a wifi suitable for UMA07:59
TiagoTiagoit's like it's swtiching from one tower to the next, but the next tower isn't realy a tower, like that?08:00
SpeedEvilB) You bring up this connection, check it's stable - over wifi08:00
zr0TiagoTiago: yep08:00
SpeedEvilC) you tell the modem to disconnect from the current tower, and tell it it's a handover08:00
luke-jrzr0: I don't think the CPU side even knows when a handover happens08:00
zr0luke-jr: then that's a retarded implementation08:00
SpeedEvilD) you talk to the fake GSM tower over wifi08:00
SpeedEvilThat's how UMA works.08:01
SpeedEvilHow else could it work?08:01
luke-jrzr0: N900's impl is basically a USB modem plugged into a laptop08:01
SpeedEvilThe alternatives are basically worse.08:01
TiagoTiagoI think  Nokia guy here the other day said the modem int he N900 is capable of checking signals of many antennas at the same time, but that isn't avaiable thru the open API08:01
zr0gsm modem is a completely seperate device from a wifi interface08:01
TiagoTiagoa Nokia guy*08:01
SpeedEvilFor example - if it's all done in the modem, the modem needs to host the wifi interface08:02
SpeedEvilAnd all of the wifi stack08:02
SpeedEvilWhich brings a whole new level of pain08:02
TiagoTiagocouldn't the modem spill both the input and the output back into the higher levels to be redirected?08:02
SpeedEvilIt could.08:02
SpeedEvilIt doesn't.08:02
zr0they probably do it that way to save power08:03
SpeedEvilBut the point is that fromthe point of view of the network - this is the only sane way to do this.08:03
*** benh has joined #maemo08:03
SpeedEvilIt's the implementation on the mobile-side that's a bit messy.08:03
zr0from the networks point of view it makes sense08:03
TiagoTiagoit's liuke a gemtocell without the cell?08:03
zr0TiagoTiago: so basically the modem can do it, it's just that the interface is documented and open?08:05
zr0s/is/is not08:05
SpeedEvilOn the mobile side it's icky - as you have to break the layering - as the modem can't be a black box - it needs hooks. And the whole stack needs reengineering08:05
TiagoTiagomy understanding is the hardware is capable, but the open software  has no way to tell the hardware to do it08:05
SpeedEvilthe modem in principle could be reprogrammed to do it by nokia.08:05
SpeedEvilThe modem as currently programmed - either can't do it - or there are no docs.08:06
zr0most likely no docs08:06
zr0well, who knows08:06
TiagoTiagois it not permanently programmed, like a true read only memory  (not the type that can be reflashed) ?08:06
zr0might have an eeprom08:07
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: no - it's got - IIRC - 16M of flash08:07
zr0there you go08:07
zr0what's the chip?08:07
SpeedEvilOr it may be 2M - I forget - I diddn't read that closely.08:07
TiagoTiagoso it might be possible to reverse engineer the stuff and install an open source modem firmware?08:07
SpeedEvilIn principle yes - in practice it's signed.08:08
TiagoTiagosomeone would have to also crack the signature system08:08
luke-jrpublic key encryption is uncrackable08:08
SpeedEvilUncrackable is probably strong.08:08
zr0not if you have enough time08:08
rasterTiagoTiago: even if u crack it.. u'd need the open modem impl that can drive the modem hw they have08:08
TiagoTiagoeven if they put a bunch of PS3 running custom firmware and a bunch of people running crack@home?08:08
rasterthe modem is another cpu - another soc with another set of hw on it08:09
SpeedEvilFor example - social engineering may get you the key.08:09
SpeedEvilAnd a full 3G stack is horribly complex.08:09
luke-jrmeh, who needs 3G08:09
luke-jrjust run OpenBTS08:09
rasteru're effectively "porting" an os with all dirvers, etc. to it THEN implwmenting a gsm etc. stack and an ipc layer that lets u talk to the modem os from the ap side08:09
rasternot a trivial task08:09
rasterconsidering that fiurst - such stacks and os's on the mdoem side .. as open soruce.. basically dont exist08:10
zr0i don't understand why you wouldn't implement your stack with uma in mind.. i mean wouldn't tmobile rather you use a wifi hotspot than one of their cell towers?08:10
TiagoTiagohaven't people already achieved similar feats with running Linux on all sorts of things?08:10
rasterand no specs ont he hw on the modem "computer" are open :)08:10
SpeedEvilzr0: Because it's complex.08:10
rasterso u'd reverse engineer it :)08:10
SpeedEvilzr0: and complexity adds cost and delay.08:10
*** klasu_ has joined #maemo08:11
luke-jrzr0: T-Mobile didn't make it08:11
zr0they do this two chip design to save power right?08:11
luke-jrto obey the "don't let anyone change it" laws08:11
luke-jrtwo chips will always use more power than 108:11
*** benh has quit IRC08:11
zr0not necessarily08:12
rasterzr0: they do it so u CAN have a "full os" run separately from a blackboxed modem that handles dealing with vioice, gsm data, blah blah blah08:12
rasterits how pretty much most hw works these days08:12
TiagoTiagoif each can be optmized to do somthing differently, both will be optmized08:12
rasteryour scsi raid controller has a cpu on it08:12
raster(most likely)08:12
rasterwiht its own os08:12
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo08:12
rasterits on a card08:12
rasterand u talk to it via a memory mapped interface over pci08:12
rastersame with wifi08:12
* Stskeeps plays with his meego/n900 able to make calls08:12
rastersame with gpu's08:12
rastersame with just about everything these days08:13
rasterits only a question of how high-level and complex that set of software is that runs on the device's "cpu"08:13
zr0those types of devices don't run a full-blown os though, right?08:13
rasterit varies08:13
rasteranything from hyper-simple blobs of firmware u could sanelyu re-verse-engineer withotu trouble08:13
rasterto actual rtos's08:14
rasterand processes08:14
rasterand ipc layers and more08:14
zr0and that's what you're saying runs on these gsm modem chips08:14
rastermodems (gsm etc.) tend to be on the higher end of the complexity level08:14
SpeedEvilIn the lower end phones, it's 'all' on one chip.08:14
*** klasu_ has quit IRC08:14
zr0SpeedEvil: sure08:14
SpeedEvilWhich can make UMA a bit less of a pain08:14
rasterthe "modem os" has the ability to slide in other processes08:14
SpeedEvilIf it has wifi even08:14
rasterand code08:14
zr0the modem os is just a tiny rtos08:15
zr0i'm guessing08:15
rasterbut nbow u pay a price08:15
raster1. the modem os and infr ais not open08:15
zr0just so you can have a "thread" concept.. vxworks, etc08:15
raster2. its almost always locked down behind a lot of layers of nda , secrecy and proprietariness08:15
luke-jrzr0: even the 100% open software Freerunner had a closed modem08:15
raster3. u have to share your cpu with a greeedy modem os08:15
rasterif it wants the pcu - it'll steel it08:15
rasteryour ui be damned08:15
SpeedEvilThe freerunner probably could do UMA08:16
SpeedEvilIn that you've probably got the best chance of implementing it there.08:16
TiagoTiagowithout replacing closed firmwares, does the N900 allows for any type of arbitrary radio protocol to be implemented in any of the frequencies of it's transceivers/trasmitter-receiver pairs?08:16
rasterthe modem was a ti modem08:16
rasterits an arm core on therer08:16
SpeedEvilThe chipset is the reference platform for the open-source GSM erfforts.08:16
SpeedEvilThe datasheets leaked.08:16
rasterwith a proprietary os u have to license from ti08:16
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: no08:16
*** Rhoruns_ has quit IRC08:16
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: Essentially all radios in stuff today is special purpose.08:16
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: A large fraction of the processing is done by hardware.08:17
rasterthe main cpu (samsung 2442) was a separate chip/soc08:17
rasterthats what drove the linxu os, ui, etc. etc.08:17
TiagoTiagoso none of the radios allow more raw access?08:17
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo08:17
rasterthey all hide behind some itnerface08:17
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: For example - a crystal - cut right - can do a billion floating point operations a second on a billionth of a watt.08:17
johnxanyone remember the yopy? I really wanted one of those things ...08:17
TiagoTiagothat's disapointing :(08:17
rasterbe it at commandset over serial, usb08:17
rasteror maybe some shared memory window stuff with binary protocols08:17
rasterits still all isolaed08:17
rasterunless its a  "dumbphone"08:18
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: Doing that in a 'SDR' digitally would take perhaps 5-10W08:18
rasterand then it runs all on hte modem (single chip solkn) and is closed up08:18
zr0i wonder if this ti modem has a jtag interface08:19
SpeedEvilThe modem in the n900 is not TI08:19
SpeedEvilWell - irt is , but it's a nokia/TI codesign. The TI modem referred to above was the Calypso.08:19
SpeedEvilThis has no leaked docs.08:19
SpeedEvilSo is about 8 orders of magnitude harder to crack.08:19
rasterSpeedEvil:  calypso was a POS08:19
rasterbuggy as all crap08:20
SpeedEvilBut POS + docs08:20
rasteropen crap is still crap08:20
SpeedEvilhow buggy?08:20
SpeedEvilYou mean the hw bugs?08:20
TiagoTiagoThose plugs under the battery, has anyone figured out somthing fun that can be done with them?08:20
rasterits a featurephone modem08:20
rasterit does at commands08:20
SpeedEvilOr the firmware ones.08:20
rasterbut it was only exposes in a very basic way08:20
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: somewhat - yes - but not really08:20
rasterjust enough to use it in limited cases from a pc08:20
rastereg as a "gsm dialup modem"08:20
TiagoTiagohow so?08:21
rasterif u wanted to handle async notifications of things like incoming sms while u were doing other things08:21
zr0i guess this gsm firmware/hardware design is nokia's secret sauce08:21
rasterit'd nicely just break messages in the middle08:21
rasterforget it was still sending it to you08:21
rasterand send the "u have sms" message in thge middle08:21
rasterother nasties08:21
rasterlike it'd just lose messages while waking up ro sleeping08:21
raster(being sent to the states)08:21
rasterand no way to ever know they were lost08:22
rasteror get them back08:22
rasterit was all really the modem os bugs08:22
rasterit wasnt intended to be a "modem for another smartphone os to use"08:22
zr0which phone was this?08:22
rasterit was designed as a dumb featurephone chip+os08:22
*** Elfix has quit IRC08:22
rasterand so these thnigs didnt work right as they wree not tested08:22
rasteras it was not considered a real life use of the chip08:23
TiagoTiagoPerhaps Nokia could release an somewhat open version of the firmwares, kinda generic, without their secrets, with a license that would allow them to use changes the community makes in their closed firmwares, and also a condition that the open  firmware couldn't ship nor be offered by any competitor,  wouldn't it be beneficial for Nokia and the community?08:23
rasterit was intended to function only so far as u may use your featurephone as a dialup modem08:23
rasterand similar simple things08:23
Stskeepswhy would you want to modify the ISI modem again? it's quite versatile08:23
johnxTiagoTiago, what is in it for them?08:23
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: No, they can't.08:23
rasterzr0:  freerunner08:23
zr0TiagoTiago: i believe xilinx usually takes this kind of approach08:23
rasteras such om finally got a license for the modem os08:23
rasterand spent a while trying to fix a lot of the issues08:23
rasterbut not all were08:23
RST38hme moos08:23
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: They do this - the first person that misuses it then makes them unable to sell the n900 int he UK.08:23
* RST38h moos 08:23
rasterit still was a shitting grps modem anyway08:24
rasterso nice and schloooooooooooow08:24
RST38hfreerunner = pandora-108:24
TiagoTiagoIt would be beneficial for them 'cause they would be able to use the good stuff the community comes up with in their own devices while preventing the competitors from doing so08:24
*** Elfix has joined #maemo08:24
TiagoTiagoah, yeah, i forgot about the damn law08:24
zr0change the law08:24
SpeedEvilAnd I suspect the UK is not alone.08:24
TiagoTiagoi don't live there08:24
SpeedEvilzr0: It's there for a reason.08:24
TiagoTiagoi dunno what the laws are over here though08:24
zr0what is the reason?08:25
*** Ordog_by has joined #maemo08:25
rasternot just the law08:25
rasterpissed off telcos08:25
SpeedEvilzr0: If you for example have two N900s - you can transfer data between them - 'free' at a range of a couple of kilometers.08:25
TiagoTiagoTo prevent people abusing the system?08:25
johnxTiagoTiago, yeah, even I don't see the cost/benefit coming out in their favor, and I'm a lot more optimistic than them08:25
rasterif you are known as the company that makes phones that are easy to bring down telco cells08:25
SpeedEvilzr0: This will however knock out 16 or more calls that are in progress at once.08:25
rasterthe telcos will just black-ban you08:25
SpeedEvilzr0: And some of these may be emergency calls.08:25
RST38hraster: frankly, I suspect that telcos' statement that "people would be able to misuse their networks" is somewhat overblown08:25
rasterand refuse to sell your phones until you stop being a pain in the arse (in the name of openness)08:25
zr0SpeedEvil: but you could still accomplish the same thing by building your own radio..08:26
rasterRST38h: it is - but he moment someone actually does08:26
zr0transmitter, whatever08:26
rasterand phone makes fear that trememndously08:26
rasterthey will lose billions fo $08:26
SpeedEvilzr0: There is a fucking huge difference between having to obtain your own transmitter, and a 12 year-old being able to install it on his purchased phone.08:26
rasterso unless being open generates many billions of $ that makes up for telcos saying "screw you"08:26
RST38hraster: Similar thing happened with Wifi, and we are all still alive08:26
rasterand also runing a rsik of itc bans and other legal bans and repurcussions08:27
rasteru avoid the risk :(08:27
rasterRST38h: wifi wasnt licensed08:27
TiagoTiagobut people don't make emergency calls via wifi (most of the time)08:27
rastertelcos didnt bay billions for the spectrum08:27
johnxRST38h, the spectrum used by wifi in the states isn't regulated except output power, and is 'subject to interference'08:27
rasterand legally its not regulated like cellphone space08:27
rasterit sucks08:27
rasterbut its how it is08:27
rasterthe best u can hope for is the modem interface being open to the black-box modem08:28
zr0SpeedEvil: you think a 12 yearold would figure out how to flash some opensource firmware into a phone? cmon08:28
SpeedEvilzr0: no.08:28
rasterand then hope the modem engineers do a good job exposing most of what is needed safely08:28
TiagoTiagoHm, what if they jsut locked the use of the registred frequency bands and allowed we to do whatever we want in the unregistred ones?08:28
zr0raster: exactly08:28
rasterwhat they think you need08:28
zr0but it'll never happen08:28
johnxzr0, a 15 year old could08:28
SpeedEvilzr0: Someone develops that firmware - using the 'you can use this opensource modem' feature - and then releases it.08:28
rasterand what u actually want may not be in agreement08:28
rasterbut maybe over time that will stabilise08:29
luke-jrjohnx: the spectrum used by GSM in the US isn't regulated except output power, either08:29
luke-jrnot 900 MHz at least :D08:29
ds3which spectrum? the US has 2 GSM bands08:29
SpeedEvil900MHz is not used in the US08:29
luke-jrSpeedEvil: N900 supports it, and it's regulated like 802.11 bands08:29
TiagoTiagoisn't 900mhz also used by wireless landline handsets, babymonitors and abunch of other things like that?08:29
zr0it's 850, i believe08:29
SpeedEvilThis is the UMA peoples blog08:30
SpeedEvilall of their top stories are 'UMA isn't being rolled out'.08:30
SpeedEvilPretty much08:30
zr0someone needs to create a phone that solely does dect and wifi and can connect to voip providers08:31
tigertheh, livewallpaper i8s cte08:31
tigertis cute, even08:31
luke-jrzr0: keep in mind N900 isn't a phone08:31
zr0then the telcos would start implementing uma08:31
TiagoTiagothe problem with that is lack of coverage08:31
luke-jrzr0: no, they wouldn't.08:31
luke-jrzr0: reality: nobody would buy the phone08:31
rastertigert: tigert??? *the* tigert from way back gnomey stuff?08:32
zr0luke-jr: uh.. you could market as: a phone you pay $5 a month for08:32
rasteraaah bugger08:32
luke-jrbecause in the real world, people make payments on the phone the telco sends them08:32
tigertwoot =)08:32
rasterooh wait08:32
rasterthat was an oo08:32
rasternot a no08:32
rastertrig WO man! LTNS!08:32
rasterbloody hell08:32
tigertyeah :)08:32
rasterhopw ya doing?08:32
SpeedEvilI pay $5/mo for my phone plan08:32
tigertbeen motre than a while =)08:32
luke-jrzr0: N810 supported only WiMax and WiFi ;)08:32
SpeedEvilthat I get 1G of data with.08:32
tigertmore, even. silly typos this morning08:32
SpeedEvilWell - 3 quid.08:32
rastertigert: heheheh indeed a long while08:33
zr0luke-jr: obviously it would have to be a cheapass product to sell08:33
luke-jrbut like the N900, it wasn't a phone08:33
tigertraster: been at nokia for a bunch of years now08:33
*** FatalSaint- has joined #maemo08:33
SpeedEvilzr0: you're in the wrong country.08:33
rastertigert:  really? didn't know u headed nok-way08:33
rastertigert: doing arty goop?08:33
luke-jrhow does UMTS do for coverage area btw?08:33
SpeedEvilzr0: I can buy a phone for $20 outright. And then get reasonable priced calls on it.08:33
rasteror moved to doing other things?08:33
luke-jrmy understanding is WCDMA has significantly worse range than GSM did08:34
tigertraster: was at ximian/novell for a while and then about the time the N800 was in teh works got there08:34
zr0SpeedEvil: if you have good coverage08:34
luke-jrzr0: there's obviously no point in using UMTS over GSM on a cheap product08:34
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo08:34
TiagoTiagoIMO Nokia should release the sucessor of the N900 (as in a device that is at least as good as it in all aspects) that comes with at least two soft-reprogramable transceivers (with frequencies limitations to not break laws of course)08:34
tigertraster: did the default theme for N81008:34
*** FatalSaint has quit IRC08:34
luke-jrthe only point to WCDMA over GSM is bandwidth, which is only useful on smartphones or computers08:34
tigertraster: then kinda supported folks with N900 theming etc08:35
luke-jrTiagoTiago: not happening08:35
TiagoTiagowhy not?08:35
tigertraster: going for parental leave in a month though now08:35
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: When it would cost $20-$1000 more - depending on the capabilities of these trancievers?08:35
tigertraster: how about you?08:35
rastertigert:  ooh awesome! so still themeing your little heart away!08:35
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: Are you high?08:35
luke-jrTiagoTiago: because the successor of the N900 already exists08:35
TiagoTiagoare those things really that expensive?08:35
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: yes.08:35
tigerti saw you hacking at openmoko a while back08:35
luke-jrSpeedEvil: don't they use far more power too?08:35
rasterand now are they making you learn qml etc.?08:35
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: If you're talking of actually flexible trancievers.08:36
tigertwell, qml is looking neat08:36
TiagoTiagoif the GSM modem  can be reprogramed, why would those other radios be so much more expensive?08:36
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: Because it can't.08:36
rasteri left japan - did my taiwan-half stint08:36
*** rosseaux has quit IRC08:36
rasterand now i'm @ sammy08:36
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: The GSM modem can send stuff that is GSM-modem-like on the same bands.08:36
luke-jrTiagoTiago: the GSM modem can't be reprogrammed at that low a level08:36
zr0TiagoTiago: :)08:36
* raster aims his guns @ tigert08:36
TiagoTiagoi thought you said the only obstacles was knowing the hardware and getting the code signed08:36
rasteryou are now the enemy! MUHAHAHAHAHHAHA08:36
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: It cannot do arbitrary frequencies, or modulations.08:36
rasterjust kidding :)08:36
luke-jrraster: Sammy? as in Samsung?08:37
tigertraster: :) cool for you08:37
TiagoTiagothere is o such thing as a DSP like on soundcards but for radio frequencies?08:37
tigertthe world needs good pixels08:37
SpeedEvilAnyway - I'm going to sleep.08:37
rasterluke-jr: yes.08:37
TiagoTiagothere is no*08:37
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: yes.08:37
luke-jrTiagoTiago: there is, for like $1000 and not pocket-sized08:37
luke-jrTiagoTiago: see OpenBTS08:37
rasterat samsung electronics hq in korea08:37
TiagoTiagowhy are they so expensive?08:37
zr0TiagoTiago: sure, but you need a receiver08:37
luke-jrraster: a position to influence future products? :P08:37
TiagoTiagomy PC soundcard can have a the DSP reprogramed to affect input just the same as output08:38
rastermaking good things happen with cute little sammy devices, boxes, prototypes... and efl :)08:38
rasterluke-jr:  principal enigneer. so i guess.. yes. :)08:38
rastersammy pestered me until i finally agree dto join and move to ke08:38
tigertraster: neat :)08:38
rasterso i guess i have something they want08:38
rasterbeatsm me what it is :)08:38
TiagoTiagowhy DSP for radio frequencies would be more expensive? Clock issues?08:39
rasterall i want to see is linux become the mainstay of the handset world08:39
rasternot android - bny linux i mean gnu/linux/x11/miniature desktop in your pocket08:39
luke-jrTiagoTiago: because radio is black magic08:39
rasterlinux aint gong to win any desktop08:39
TiagoTiagojust lack of consumers to make the price go down?08:39
tigertraster: the N900 has been interesting for sure08:39
rasterbut it hjas a brigh future on things like phones and tablets and so on08:39
zr0it sure lost bigtime in netbooks..08:40
obsidiethlinux is a shit desktop08:40
rastertigert:  it has. i have one on my desk @ home08:40
tigertwould we have imagined back then a device like this?08:40
luke-jrraster: get them to make this:
johnxraster, didn't samsung just announce they're throwing all their effort behind android?08:40
luke-jrraster: and ignore the crappy drawing, it's a failed concept08:40
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo08:40
luke-jrobsidieth: as if there's something better?08:40
*** rosseaux has quit IRC08:40
tigertraster: i am chatting on one, just hopped off tram and got to offices08:40
rasterjo news to me... and the few hundred enigneers around me :)08:40
luke-jrobsidieth: LOL08:40
obsidiethoh. i thought i was somewhere else08:40
luke-jrWindows is a terrible desktop08:40
luke-jrit only sells because people don't think they have a choice, and if they do, they're already used to the crappy design of it08:41
zr0luke-jr: that argument goes for a lot of things08:41
TiagoTiagothat thing needs one or two analog nubs and shoulder rockers08:41
rasterluke-jr: i work in the mobile platform group. as such actual hw is arms-length of influence08:41
RST38hluke-jr: this design is mechanically risky08:41
johnxraster, <raster> etc.08:41
luke-jrRST38h: hence ignoring the picture08:41
tigertraster: so research stuff?08:42
rastertigert:  nice. n900 isnt bad.. tho i have to say the software was buggy-as-all-hell08:42
luke-jrraster: that is specs for a mobile platform :P08:42
TiagoTiagoit's a slide combined with a flip08:42
rasterit felt entirely alpha08:42
tigertwell, its not too bad now with updates etc08:42
rastermine brticked itself twice on its own08:42
tigertits rough and edgy08:42
rasterand would reboot and soldi-hang evetry few mins on average08:42
tigertbut it does a neat job in a segment08:42
tigertraster: uh, yours is a bad batch then :P08:43
tigertor broken08:43
luke-jrraster: did you read the text part? that's all I mean :P08:43
tigertthis is pretty solid08:43
rasterjosamsung is a big place with like 200,000+ people08:43
rasterdamned tab compl08:43
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo08:43
TiagoTiagois there anything fun i can stick in the sd slot (stuff using sdio) that isn't expensive?08:43
tigertsamsung is like the whole country08:43
johnxTiagoTiago, an sd card08:43
RST38htigert: with hildon-desktop recompiled from the repository, kernel tweaked, microb replaced with opera, ham replaced with fapman, and modest ignored, it is not that bad :)08:43
luke-jrTiagoTiago: your finger?08:43
rasterjohnx: "we are prioritizing" doesnt eman "We are throwing everything behind this and doing nothing else"08:43
zr0there's kia too08:44
rasterit means "this is important now"08:44
zr0and lg08:44
TiagoTiagoi read there are things like wifi cards and even GPS cards08:44
luke-jrTiagoTiago: not in MicroSD form08:44
TiagoTiagobigger SD formats?08:44
luke-jrnormal SD08:44
tigertraster: so what brings you here? :)08:44
luke-jrI have a 802.11b CompactFlash…08:45
rasterluke-jr: i saw the text. that basically wants a mobile pc.08:45
rasterso get one :)08:45
rastersony make some small ones :)08:45
luke-jrraster: those don't exist08:45
TiagoTiagowell, how hard would it be to make a adapter that has a ribbon cable with a plug in the tip shaped like a microSD?08:45
rasterwell if your pants are big enough08:45
luke-jrTiagoTiago: TIAS08:45
rasterit fits in a pocket08:45
TiagoTiagowhat is that?08:45
infobotTry it and see! You will learn more, and probably have a better feeling of satisfaction, if you experiment with simple cases to learn a language than you will by asking yes or no questions.08:45
luke-jrraster: one requirement is it fits in a normal pocket08:45
rastertigert:  ho anyway.. distratced ummm well ijust hang here to listen in08:45
rasterand see what the nokia/maemo world does08:45
rasterand now meego08:46
luke-jrraster: C760 was perfect for its day08:46
rastertho i have to say i am not fond of meego's general dir of "qt and rpm08:46
luke-jrraster: the physical size of this thing could be that of two N810s stacked08:46
rastergbut overall i like many of the goals and ideas08:46
luke-jryeah, RPM sucks08:46
luke-jrbut what's the problem with Qt? you'd rather DirectFB?08:47
tigertraster: yeah08:47
TiagoTiagoi don't know enough about the stuff, thigns like impedance, resistance etc, i woudl probably mess up, not to mention the risk of some shaky soldering ending up shorting my expensive N90008:47
rasterluke-jr:  sony make a pc thats about that size-ish already08:47
rasterhave for years08:47
tigertraster: well yeah. package management is not interesting to me as long as it works though08:47
luke-jrraster: if so, I think I'd know about and buy it :P08:47
rasterluke-jr: qt... c++... its partly the "now u must use c++"08:47
tigertwe managed to fsck up our debs more than enough in the past08:47
rasterand partly just that the qt api ... doesnt feel right for me08:47
rasterpersonaly taste thing08:48
luke-jrraster: meh, Qt is really a new language of its own08:48
tigertso its not really about what you use but how you do the stuff :)08:48
rasteri never really grew to like it08:48
luke-jrraster: but the alternatives are far worse08:48
TiagoTiagoWhat OS that Comunicator that had one regular screen and keypad and a qwerty keyboard and widescreen when you flipped it open used?08:48
rastergtk felt much nicer08:48
*** larsivi has quit IRC08:48
tigertraster: yeah, I still dont code so I dont have an opinion on that so much08:48
luke-jrGTK is slow and ugly08:48
zr0gtk, blech08:48
tigertluke-jr: dont get him started on E ;)08:48
rasterluke-jr: do u see me using it?08:48
luke-jrraster: I can't see any ARM handhelds Sony makes…08:48
rasteriw as comparing qt and gtk as api's08:48
rasteras toolkits to use from the programming side08:49
luke-jrraster: API is only as good as the implementation08:49
rasterluke-jr:  they make an x86 on3e08:49
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo08:49
luke-jrraster: x86 is crap08:49
rasterinstall regular linux on it08:49
rasterhave fun08:49
luke-jrregular linux supports ARM08:49
* raster shrugs08:49
rasteryou can start your own hw company and make what u want08:49
zr0luke-jr: be sure to let intel know that08:49
luke-jrI wish08:49
luke-jrzr0: they probably know08:49
tigertraster: < Ankh> tell him I remembr tlkngi ot hmi in cpmm4$tralfisdney wherj d }|08:49
rastertigert: wtf? :)08:50
luke-jrAtom uses like 50 times the power Cortex-A9 does, and Atom is slower08:50
*** koala_ma1 has quit IRC08:50
*** koala_ma1 has joined #maemo08:50
*** koala_ma1 is now known as koala_man08:50
tigertraster: I guess quim is referring to your legendary typolanguage in the past :D08:50
TiagoTiagoIntell doesn't make ARM, right? Why the ARM people didn't try to keep Nokia wuth them? OR did they? What happened?08:50
rastertigert:  hahahahahahahahhahaha08:50
tigertnot quim08:50
luke-jrTiagoTiago: Intel used to make ARM, but they sold it.08:50
* tigert mixes those names 08:50
luke-jrTiagoTiago: Nokia is sticking with ARM afaik08:51
rastertigert: btw - despite my not so fondness of qt.. and rpm - i think the whole meego and even maemo and stuff nokia is doingis good08:51
zr0luke-jr: for handsets08:51
rasteri keep tabs on it mostly because i dont want an all-out-war ensuing in the linux os space08:51
TiagoTiagoThey gonna make ARM Meego devices?08:51
johnxTiagoTiago, Nokia is sticking with ARM in the near term and hedging their bets in the long term08:51
rasterand no "try and bridget the gap" efforts in sight08:51
johnxpretty much like *everyone else* with half a clue08:51
luke-jrzr0: if it's not pocketable, size doesn't matter to me :P08:51
StskeepsTiagoTiago: sure, N900 is ARM reference devices08:51
*** rosseaux has quit IRC08:51
RST38hIntel still makes ARM CPUs just not for general purpose08:51
luke-jrTiagoTiago: all Nokia MeeGo will be ARM afaik08:51
TiagoTiagoi mean, a device that coems from the factory with MEeGo08:52
zr0we'll see, i'm sure intel is going to make a series of atom-based tablets08:52
luke-jrTiagoTiago: you realize the N900's successor already is built and in testing? :P08:52
TiagoTiagoi thought they were going to use Intell hardware 'cause of the partnership and all08:52
TiagoTiagothe N9?08:52
luke-jrzr0: as long as their power consumption is terrible, it'll suck08:52
StskeepsTiagoTiago: no, misperception - there's still a large use for ARM meego devices08:52
luke-jrunless they manage to make batteries a lot smaller08:53
TiagoTiagothey dropped too many zeros, that device should stick with Symbian08:53
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo08:53
RST38hThe Harmattan device is ARM-based indeed08:53
RST38hBut the architecture of the followind devices has not been announced08:53
zr0the N9 looks unimpressive08:53
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo08:53
luke-jrthe N900 looks unimpressive too08:53
asjzr0: what does it look like? :)08:53
luke-jrasj: go check the pics08:53
RST38hSo I would not make any premature conclusions08:53
TiagoTiagoi like how you can tell jsut by the weight that the N900 means busyness08:54
asjzr0: which ones?08:54
johnxzr0, in terms of the actual looks or you mean CPU/RAM?08:54
*** jreznik has joined #maemo08:54
luke-jrasj: the teardown? :p08:54
zr0although i like the n900 more than the n908:54
zr0look wise08:54
luke-jrzr0: N810 was better than N900 if you ignore the internals08:55
rasterTiagoTiago: its like measuring quality of code by how many lines of code there are.08:55
TiagoTiagoisn't the leaked images from a prototype, likelly to be wearing a temporary case meant jsut to hold the breadboards together?08:55
rasterits pointless.08:55
rasterthe n900 is a fairly bulky and heavy device08:55
asjah those ones08:55
zr0compared to my e71, it's a tank08:55
rasterand relative to its weight.. its fairly skimpy on performance and other features08:55
tigertraster: thats mostly due to the keyboard08:55
rasterits "ok"08:55
rasterbut not amazing08:55
luke-jrzr0: isn't E71 a phone?08:55
asjzr0: yeah, but the n900 is good for something ;)08:55
rastertigert: possibly08:55
tigertcould be a lot thinner without08:55
tigertbut then again, the kbd makes it more useful08:56
rastertigert: but kbd or no - next ti my galaxy-s.. it looks primitive and chubby08:56
tigerttext input is a big issue on handhelds that dont have one08:56
raster(and software-wise.. feels that way too)08:56
TiagoTiagoThe N900 is heavy enough you can brick someone with it :P08:56
*** blizzow1 has joined #maemo08:56
luke-jrcomparing a tablet with a phone isn't fair08:56
asjTiagoTiago: you obviously have never helf an E9008:56
rastersame soc+screen+everything else prototypes as galaxy-s (ie basically galaxys in a different bit of plastic) run efl and x11 silky smoothly :)08:57
*** FireFly|n900 has quit IRC08:57
tigertraster: well sure, the thing is a year old08:57
tigertraster: actually it was announced one year and one day ago08:57
rasterwith compositing, zero screen update tearing, 32bpp everywhere and more :)08:57
*** sugnan has joined #maemo08:57
rastertigert:  sure :)08:57
TiagoTiagoif all the plastic bits (other than the transparent screen stuff) were replaced with alluminum stuff, would the signal of the many radios suffer?08:57
luke-jr32bpp? X11 doesn't even support that…08:57
luke-jror at least not Xorg08:57
rastertigert: agreed. 100% :)08:58
rasterluke-jr:  yes it does08:58
rasterit has for a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time08:58
luke-jrraster: pretty sure not08:58
rasterhow do u think compositing works.. hwo do u think we have xrender with alpha channels?08:58
johnxluke-jr, it supported it before it was xorg. xfree 3 had it08:58
luke-jrthose alpha channels aren't in hardware08:58
raster32bpp has been supported since the most ancient xservers08:58
zr0TiagoTiago: no08:58
rasterit only USEd 24bits of the 32 for color08:58
rasterthe other bits may or m,ay not have been used08:59
johnxbut were available to be used for alpha08:59
luke-jryou're talking the LCD, no?08:59
johnxhence RGBA08:59
TiagoTiagoI wonder how much it woudl cost to have my N900 retrofitted with aluminum parts (with mate black coating)08:59
rastero(as such in the ancient workstation days - sun/sgi the extra 8 bits were actually the 8bpp color overlay)08:59
zr0TiagoTiago: buy a black n808:59
TiagoTiagoit runs Symbian, no?08:59
rasteras such... x has suported 32bpp since long before you ever even knew linux/xfree86 etc. existed :)08:59
johnxTiagoTiago, a couple thousand to a couple million USD depending on how professional you want it08:59
zr0TiagoTiago: yes..08:59
luke-jrraster: not 32bpp colour. :p08:59
TiagoTiagowow,t hat much?09:00
luke-jr24bpp colour + 8bit alpha09:00
luke-jrand in all cases, it is flattened to 24bpp before getting to the CLD09:00
TiagoTiagothe professionalism level would be what i Nokia would do if they had made it with aluminum09:00
TiagoTiagowhat  Nokia*09:00
rasterluke-jr: in most cases it only goes to 24bpp when it comes from the ramdac to the screen09:01
rasteras far as software, gpu, memory is concerned. its 32bits per pixel09:01
luke-jrwould be neat to have a LCD that supported true RGBA :P09:01
rasterthats WHY bpp in x11 is separate from visual09:01
tigertTiagoTiago: :)09:01
rasterand why u have rgb masks09:01
TiagoTiagoi wouldn't be able to model all the parts correctly09:02
johnxluke-jr, so uhm, you get to save one super-optimized blending step and push it off to the monitor? huh?09:02
sugnanhello, i have a issue while packaging, my app is using the package from other repo which wont be avail by default on n900, i want to make my application to install the dependencies automatically when my application is installed, is there any way to add the required repo dynamically by the package itself?09:02
zr0wow, all of these android devices need at least a 1GHz cpu to run..09:02
luke-jrjohnx: no, so alpha 50% means you see through the device09:02
luke-jrjohnx: ideally without latency09:02
johnxsugnan, I don't think an app like that would be allowed in extras09:03
luke-jralpha 100% would mean it's a piece of glass in practice09:03
johnxbut you could just make a .install file that added the repo09:03
TiagoTiagohave you seen that cartton called Zeek's Pad?09:03
TiagoTiagothe magic pad in question is like that09:03
*** swc|666 has quit IRC09:04
luke-jrit would probably take some real optical hacks or miniaturization leaps to get that in a tablet ofc09:04
*** rosseaux has quit IRC09:05
luke-jr(I suppose there's probably some way to bend the light around the electronics)09:05
TiagoTiagoI've seen a transparent LCD watch, and also transparent OLED displays, the technology is there already09:05
TiagoTiagonot watch, a clock09:05
johnxluke-jr, circuit board goes in the bezel09:06
johnxbut that's a lot of wasted space for a cool effect09:06
TiagoTiagothough they couldn't sense what was going thru the screen when transparent09:06
*** rodarvus_ has joined #maemo09:06
TiagoTiagolike, you woudln't be able to take a picture that looks exactly like what you see thru the screen09:06
luke-jrjohnx: you're assuming it is only used for effect09:07
tigertTiagoTiago: but I guess there the "alpha" means "white"?09:07
TiagoTiagoi'm pretty sure you can have all sorts of electronic stuff made transparent09:07
tigertlike, remove the back plate and backlight from your monitor and you can see through the image09:07
*** rodarvus has quit IRC09:07
johnxluke-jr, in glasses it'd be nice of course09:07
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo09:07
luke-jrjohnx: exactly ☺09:07
johnxbut in that case, put the electronics somewhere else09:08
TiagoTiagothe LCD layer woudl control the opacity, going from transparent to black, and the OLED would be for the colors and making white09:08
luke-jrjohnx: but I'm told the focus problem would be such it really needs a retina thing09:08
tigertraster: but congrats for teh job and good luck :)09:08
TiagoTiagosome LCD monitors can be transformed into projectors with the help of a lamp09:08
johnxluke-jr, don't the vuze glasses use mirrors or something?09:08
luke-jrI wonder if it would work to instead of a nanotech OpenGL display that *only* twisted light coming through it (or generated off to the side by R B G LEDs)09:09
*** ToJa92 has joined #maemo09:09
luke-jrinstead have a*09:09
*** dvoid_ has joined #maemo09:09
*** FireFly|n900 has joined #maemo09:09
TiagoTiagolike those micromechanical projection TVs?09:09
johnxluke-jr, yeah, but I want mine *this* decade09:10
johnxI'll workaround with a hacked pair of vuze glasses if I have to09:10
TiagoTiagobasicly it's an array of tiny mirrors that flick back and forth and a light source that alternates between the 3 colors09:10
johnxbut I'll wait until I can get at least 640x480 for cheap09:10
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo09:10
rastertigert: thanks man! awesoem to know you're still around. i'm sure i'll see u again :)09:11
TiagoTiagoI once read about this screen technology that workedlike butterfly wings09:11
rasterno go and do some work09:11
tigertraster: yeah, a small world we have09:11
*** geaaru has joined #maemo09:11
tigertgarrett is at suse still, I think jimmac went to RH09:11
*** rosseaux has quit IRC09:12
TiagoTiagothe MyDocs partition can't have infinite recursive subfolders, right?09:12
sugnanjohnx, ok let me be clear about my application, am not using something very out from the repository, actually my requirement is to find whether gcc and supporting libs is installed on n900, the repository required by application wont be available by default on tablet, so can some how specify the repo in debian files?09:13
luke-jrmkdir /home/user/MyDocs/x && mount --rbind /home/user/MyDocs /home/user/MyDocs/x09:13
TiagoTiagoremember that Mydocs is VFAT09:13
johnxTiagoTiago, no. folders take up space. also, vfat has a path length limit, IIRC09:13
rastertigert: wow!!! blast from the past... ha! names.... havent crossed my path is years!09:13
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo09:13
tigertraster: I've been keeping in touch on irc with them09:14
tigertits good to have peer critique when needed :)09:14
TiagoTiagowith the FTP all the time getting to low 3 digits and then jumping to mid-low 4 digits count for files left i was getting worried09:14
luke-jrTiagoTiago: mount --rbind doesn't care09:14
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo09:14
sugnani have built a application using which user can compile, execute and debug c or c++ program in single editor environment, have a look on the link
rasterTiagoTiago:  that is indeed true.09:15
TiagoTiagowould that result in infinite folders for a SFTP program acessing the partition?09:15
johnxsugnan, yes. if you create a .install, it will specify the required repositories to add and a package to install after adding those repositories. that's how firefox (fennec) is distributed for the N90009:15
rasterTiagoTiago:  sorry tab-miss09:15
rastertigert: ineed that is true09:15
luke-jrsugnan: so have many people before you, and theirs is probably more mature…09:15
X-Fadetigert: Anything cool/creative you have been doing lately you can talk about? :)09:15
rastertigert: and soem good old trusted voices too09:15
luke-jrTiagoTiago: yes09:15
tigertraster: yeah09:15
TiagoTiagohow can i check if it is the case?09:15
tigertX-Fade: well, I worked on the harmattan theming stuff09:15
tigertnot just me though, and it was mostly groundwork there09:16
X-Fadetigert: Ah :)09:16
sugnanjohnx, so the .install file should be clicked and should add the repository before installing my application ?09:16
sugnanluke-jr, i dint get you09:17
luke-jrsugnan: just saying, nothing special about it… :p09:17
X-Fadetigert: It would be cool if you guys would blog a bit about the cool stuff. You don't see much lately.09:17
tigertX-Fade: yeah, I agree09:17
TiagoTiagohm, i'm reading about femtocells and they mentioned yo'ure not supposed to cross international borders with them, but what happens if you live right next tot he border?09:17
*** ab[out] is now known as ab09:18
luke-jrTiagoTiago: probably they shut off09:18
johnxsugnan, exactly. just look at the .install file for firefox mobile for maemo. it's plain text, easy to understand09:18
luke-jrdepending on the border09:18
TiagoTiagono, i mean, you place it in your living room, plug it in etc, but on the other side of the wall it's another country09:18
sugnanjohnx, thanks09:18
luke-jrTiagoTiago: and I mean, they probably won't turn on09:19
luke-jrTiagoTiago: they all have GPS so they know where they are09:19
TiagoTiagothat would suck09:19
TiagoTiagoyou paid for the thing, and then it pullls a HAL and tells you "I'm afraid i can't let you do that"09:19
johnxeh, I bet they work just fine and no one notices or cares09:19
*** larsivi has joined #maemo09:20
johnxI've had cell service from my carrier for miles across the canadian border09:20
luke-jrdo any countries actually allow you to build your living room wall on a border?09:20
TiagoTiagogood question09:20
TiagoTiagoprobably happens in those countries that split up recently09:21
*** sugnan has left #maemo09:21
*** larsivi has joined #maemo09:21
luke-jrthat still happens?09:21
luke-jrin any case, wouldn't they put the border between buildings?09:21
*** sugnan has joined #maemo09:22
johnxluke-jr, well, the buildings they *know* about09:22
TiagoTiagoperhaps it's a really big block?09:22
johnxif you have a house in the middle of nowhere I could see them painting a border through it09:22
luke-jrTiagoTiago: borders do funny shapes09:22
*** sugnan has left #maemo09:22
*** Mece has joined #maemo09:22
johnxhi Mece09:23
luke-jrjohnx: I think in that case, the whole house would still be considered part of the country the mailbox is in09:23
TiagoTiagobut the buildings coudl have been built against each other09:23
johnxhuh...yeah, if there's mail service to it ...09:23
luke-jrTiagoTiago: uh, no09:23
TiagoTiagothere are some places where there are buildings like that09:24
luke-jrTiagoTiago: if they're touching, then it's one building :P09:24
johnxcatch you guys later. gotta focus for a sec09:24
*** johnx has left #maemo09:24
Mececan someone show me a tilde?09:24
TiagoTiagoeven if you have to go outside to get to the other?09:24
luke-jrTiagoTiago: yeah09:24
Mece~seen khertan09:24
* luke-jr likes his tildes better09:24
infobotkhertan <c16a270a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19h 50m 14s ago, saying: 'i ve already tryed :)'.09:24
luke-jrinfobot: seen Mece09:24
infobotmece is currently on #maemo (1m 52s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 18s, last said: '~seen khertan'.09:24
luke-jrno tilde required09:24
X-FadeMece: fn-symb :)09:24
*** HarryS has quit IRC09:25
MeceX-Fade, doesn't work today for some reason09:25
* luke-jr bets that in any other channels, "can someone show me a tilde" would be taken as flamebait09:25
luke-jronly here do we understand the sadness of not having a tilde key…09:25
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo09:25
X-FadeWell it used to be, How can I type | :)09:25
*** rodarvus_ has quit IRC09:26
rmrfchikhmm.. i do have tilde09:26
luke-jrTiagoTiago: anyhow, I don't get what's the need to cram people in so tight09:26
*** rodarvus_ has joined #maemo09:26
luke-jrTiagoTiago: even if everyone in the world moved to Texas, there'd be enough space for each individual to have his own large 3 bedroom house09:27
TiagoTiagoi read that the pipe and the split pipe are considered the same cause no one cared for making them be enconded differently even if they look different, i don't like it, it looks wrong in the key it's split but when i type it's not09:27
TiagoTiagoisn't that just everyone in the US?09:27
luke-jrTiagoTiago: they ARE encoded differently09:27
*** blizzow1 has quit IRC09:27
*** blizzow3 has joined #maemo09:27
*** retro|cz has quit IRC09:28
TiagoTiagowell, that is not what i remember reading when i was reading baout Unicode09:28
TiagoTiagothe key in my keyboard looks like a split pipe, but when i type, usually it's a regular pipe, but in some fonts and codepages it is split09:28
luke-jr| vs ¦09:28
TiagoTiagothe key in my keyboard looks like the second but types the first09:29
luke-jrTiagoTiago: your keyboard is mislabelled :P09:29
tigerthah, road :)09:29
TiagoTiagoi wonder how long untill the print on the keys go away and i can have a hacker keyboard for free09:30
Mecehaa ~09:30
luke-jrTiagoTiago: vertical bar is U+007C, and broken bar is U+00A609:30
*** rosseaux has quit IRC09:31
*** rodarvus__ has joined #maemo09:31
TiagoTiagoyay! :D09:31
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC09:31
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC09:31
*** tekojo has joined #maemo09:32
TiagoTiagoI wish i could setup a bunch of additional keyboards making my computer desk like a airliner cockpit so i could have single keypresses to generate all the nice unicode chars i want09:32
*** rodarvus_ has quit IRC09:33
TiagoTiagothere are lots of them09:33
TiagoTiagosee :)09:33
*** __a has joined #maemo09:34
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo09:34
*** yannux has joined #maemo09:35
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo09:35
*** ppenz has joined #maemo09:39
*** Xisdibik has quit IRC09:40
*** zs has joined #maemo09:40
*** HarryS has joined #maemo09:41
TiagoTiagoin big cities, would it be possible to form a mesh network with all just about all the mobile phones and similar devices in such a way thateveryone could reach everyone?09:41
luke-jrTiagoTiago: I don't think it would be practical09:41
luke-jrthe latency would be too much, and the bandwidth probably wouldn't work out well09:42
TiagoTiagoeven if distributed?09:42
luke-jrany way other than shortest path would just make the latency worse09:43
TiagoTiagobut what about hte bandwidth?09:43
*** calvaris has joined #maemo09:44
tigertTiagoTiago: <- simple and clean like this? :)09:45
*** jrocha has joined #maemo09:45
TiagoTiagobut with more knobs and less dials09:47
luke-jrwhat's the difference between knobs and dials?09:48
TiagoTiagoin this sense, i meant the thingies with the clock arms go away, and the thingies you grab and twist come in09:48
*** Wikier has joined #maemo09:50
*** rosseaux has quit IRC09:52
*** yannux has quit IRC09:54
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC09:54
*** merlin_1991 has joined #maemo09:54
*** merlin_1991 is now known as merlin199109:55
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo09:55
*** ayanes has joined #maemo09:55
*** blizzow3 has quit IRC09:56
Mece~seen khertan_work09:57
*** vblazquez has quit IRC09:57
*** john346523 has quit IRC09:57
infobotkhertan_work <c16a270a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 22h 14m 47s ago, saying: 'bye'.09:57
Meceanyone having trouble with khteditor 0.4-1?09:57
*** trumee has quit IRC09:58
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo09:59
*** rosseaux has quit IRC09:59
*** jpe has joined #maemo09:59
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC10:00
*** zap has joined #maemo10:01
*** retro|cz has joined #maemo10:01
TiagoTiagocrap, yet again 1500+ files left...i really hope it's not an infinite recursive subfolder thing going on10:01
*** valdyn has quit IRC10:01
*** Mece has quit IRC10:02
*** mece has joined #maemo10:04
*** eocanha has joined #maemo10:06
*** john346523 has joined #maemo10:06
*** raster has quit IRC10:07
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC10:07
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo10:07
meceok, so this might be a stupid question with an obvious answer, but do we have pyqt and/or pyside in meego?10:08
*** sheepbat has quit IRC10:08
TiagoTiagowow, i'm reading about emergency numbers world wide, it's crazy how varied they are 0.010:09
luke-jrfor me, it's 123456789*0#10:09
luke-jr(no, not really)10:09
meceI read a tweet the other day that someone fried his n900 by oc:ing. anyone see more info about this?10:11
*** swc|666 has quit IRC10:11
meceI'm kinda curious10:11
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo10:12
TiagoTiagomy /opt partition got fucked, my guess is because of OC'ing10:12
*** valdyn has joined #maemo10:12
meceTiagoTiago, well, if you could fix it with a flash it doesn't count.10:13
TiagoTiagoi haven't tried flahsing yet, still backuping MyDocs over wiifi10:13
TiagoTiagoi flashed the kernel only, that didn't help10:14
*** john346523 has quit IRC10:16
*** swc|666 has quit IRC10:16
*** benh has joined #maemo10:16
*** hrw|gone is now known as hrw10:17
jacekowskimore OC victims10:19
Stskeepswell, your own bloody faults10:19
*** sergio__ has joined #maemo10:21
TiagoTiagoin the end o f course it was me that pressed the keys, but there lots of people trying to convince people that OC'ing is all rainbows and lollipops10:22
mecebut this one said he fried his processor. I can't find the tweet :/10:22
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo10:22
*** C-S-B has joined #maemo10:22
*** booiiing|clone has joined #maemo10:22
mecehe got a galaxy or something because he oc:d his n900 to death or something like that.10:23
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC10:23
jacekowskiwell, everybody here was warning you10:23
jacekowskiexcept some morons that were saying it's all safe10:23
kerioit's safe if you have infinite money to buy more n900s10:24
kerioand if you have, i really hate you :<10:24
TiagoTiagoi wish10:24
rmrfchikwanna be hated?10:25
TiagoTiagolol, no, i wish i could afford more N900s10:25
meceno it was a quite friendly message iirc. Like "testing the <some phone> now, since I might have been the first to actually oc my n900 to death ;)"10:25
*** _0x47 has joined #maemo10:25
meceor something10:25
keriohaters gonna hate10:25
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo10:25
*** booiiing has quit IRC10:25
TiagoTiagoif it was just one or two more it owudln't be usefull, i wouldn't have the guts to spend so much money and not have any left, so if i could afford mroe N900s with ease, i would send a few to anyone that asked :)10:26
kerioi want a case for the n900 that guarantees complete survival in case of a baseball bat10:26
mece"i've got my own philosophy, I hate everyone equally" :)10:26
*** ptlo has joined #maemo10:26
TiagoTiagothat probably would require an inertial dampener10:26
psycho_oreosand now he's got galaxy so he'll overclock that as well until it dies like how he treated his n900?10:26
*** dneary has joined #maemo10:27
*** amigadave has joined #maemo10:27
mecemy n900 is perfectly fine and as fast as it needs to go. Modded the transitions a little, an it's quite nice. So I don't have the slightest temptation to oc. Also it's my only phone, and I'm poor.10:27
TiagoTiagoit started witht hevoltages thing, and pepople reporting they were getting better battery life with bigger clocks......i fell for it10:28
mecekinda blows that I don't have an extra because I want to test some stuff in meego but can't really do it since I need to be able to answer the phone and such.10:28
kerioyou like big clocks, do you10:28
meceI like big clocks, I cannot lie, you other brothers can't deny...10:29
psycho_oreosif you haven't watched videos of cpu without any proper cooling, being overclocked like hell and was fried as a result then you have much to learn10:29
TiagoTiagoi know all about the egg frying video cards10:30
meceThat when a clock walks in with an itty bitty strap And a round thing in your face, you get sprung...10:30
psycho_oreosthankfully the n900's gpu isn't overclockable yet10:31
jacekowskiwell it is part of main CPU10:31
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: you sure?10:31
jacekowskiand it's same DPLL that controls it10:31
*** noaXess has joined #maemo10:31
jacekowskiso it can be overclocked10:31
meceI don't like that I have to use flasher to boot meego, it would be nice with multiboot or whatever that bootmenu thing is called. Is that doable?10:31
psycho_oreosluke-jr, no but not like as if I'm keen on overclocking in general anyway10:32
mecepsycho_oreos, it can be oc'd and has been done.10:32
*** benh has quit IRC10:32
noaXessdoes anybody work with a nokia n900 -> funambol -> funambolzimbra connector -> zimbra zcs?10:32
TiagoTiagothere was all this talk about how the processors of the n900 were actually from a batch that was meant for higher clcoks but got declined, but from all the people OC'ing it seems most of the processors could handle a significant fraction of the original maximum10:32
noaXessi can sync contacts, but calendar gives me this: UNSUPPORTED MEDIA TYPE10:32
kerioTiagoTiago: the point is that they can't handle it10:32
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: thing is that it will work stable10:32
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: but it will make life shorter10:33
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: even on high speed version10:33
psycho_oreosmece, meh I stand corrected, but I really don't understand the obsession with overclocking in devices that: 1) does not have any form of vents visible and 2) is cramped in a small space with other chipsets10:33
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: take a look again10:33
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: there are almost no electronics inside n90010:33
TiagoTiagoi didn't even do it for the performance, but for the battery life10:33
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: two ARM cpus and that's all10:33
mecepsycho_oreos, because you can I guess.10:33
psycho_oreosjacekowski, you still have a very small case to deal with10:33
mecepsycho_oreos, it's kinda big, imo.10:34
psycho_oreosjacekowski, and with lack of vents its a bit of wonder10:34
kerioyeah, going faster will totally consume less gas10:34
psycho_oreosmece, not really, judging by the FCC pics but I could be wrong, never bothered to pull mine appart10:34
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: mece, not really, judging by the FCC pics but I could be wrong, never bothered to pull mine apart10:34
mecespeaking of gas, is this gas bubble thing a gigantic cpu hog. Looks cool.10:34
mecepsycho_oreos, I meant that the n900 case is big in comparison to many mobile devices. A lot of space there.10:35
psycho_oreosmece, I'm talking about space for the chips to breathe, if there's no proper vents its like forcing you to work in a puny sweatshop10:35
meceI demoed bambuser on N900 today at a lecture today.10:35
*** tackat has joined #maemo10:36
meceit's quite good.10:36
*** tekojo has quit IRC10:36
mecelike it much better thatn qik, (who went and sold out anyway)10:36
mecethe course is a project course which is the same one where the original bambuser protocols were first created, incidentally :)10:36
TiagoTiagothe whole device is kinda dense though, for it's size it's kinda heavy10:37
meceTiagoTiago, it's manly :)10:37
*** tekojo has joined #maemo10:37
mecedid any of you watch the bbc mini "Sherlock"?10:37
meceI think watson had an N90010:37
noaXesssomeone work with funambol and nokia n900? syncevolution?10:37
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo10:41
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo10:42
TiagoTiago102 files left, will it jump to 4 digits again? 0.010:46
crashanddiemece: eh?10:46
TiagoTiagowe don't get that type of BBC over here, only the news variation10:47
TiagoTiagoi wish i had one of those FLIR cameras to see how the N900 heats up and how it dissipates heat better10:49
TiagoTiagoit's quite hot after more than an hour transfering files over wifi while plugged int he charger....10:49
psycho_oreosits usually hot around the camera area afaik10:50
*** __a has quit IRC10:50
TiagoTiagoits hot all over10:51
psycho_oreosyeah but its hotter around the camera area for me imo10:53
TiagoTiagoit's done, now to reflash it10:58
*** msanchez has joined #maemo10:59
TiagoTiagoNokia should start testing the limits of overclocking of their new devices, and always make sure the chips can handle at least 50% over the clock covered by the warranty, that will make people like Nokia even more11:02
Stskeepswell they did and warned people11:03
TiagoTiagowait, it was supposed to handle 50% over 600MHz?11:03
RST38hDumb idea, sorry11:03
X-FadeIf the cpu could run on 1Ghz without issues, don't you think it would have been the default?11:04
RST38hIf the chip manufacturer tells you that they only guarantee correct operation up to frequency X, you either believe them or risk Trouble11:04
TiagoTiagothere still the risk it would eventually fail11:05
psycho_oreosthe same goes with every other chips basically, if you overclocking you take all sorts of matters into your own hands11:05
RST38hIn fact, even if the bloody manufacturer guarantees you frequency X, it is still not given that their SoC will work at that frequency11:05
RST38hTiago: Not that11:05
TiagoTiagolike how they test the phones under desert and artic conditions etc11:05
RST38hThere is a much higher risk than once you start writing high perf code for this chip, your code will inexplicably fail11:05
RST38hMemory interface timing issue. Has not been caught by the manufacturer. Too late now. You are fucked.11:06
*** zap has quit IRC11:06
RST38h(and yes, I have got these more than once)11:06
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo11:06
* mece is a little tired of the whole oc discussion. It's all very 'meh'.11:07
JaffaMorning, all11:07
TiagoTiagoMaking sure your devices can handle way more than what is covered by the warranty without issues would be a huge money saver cause you won't need to replace for free so many devices, and people will like you better for making your devices tough11:08
*** yannux has joined #maemo11:08
RST38hTiago: Wrong answer, sorry.11:08
fralsmorning Jaffa11:08
X-FadeTiagoTiago: They could also just lock you out and be sure it doesn't get overclocked.11:08
X-FadeTiagoTiago: What would you rather have? :)11:08
TiagoTiagonah, that makes people not like you11:08
crashanddieTiagoTiago: so basically what you're saying is "Nokia should underclock the devices they sell -- potentially ruining the experience for the general population, so that a bunch of idiots can feel their e-peen grow as they overclock their device?"11:08
psycho_oreosand if it doesn't take more criticisms just because its stated that you're not supposed to deregulate what was written in the manual?11:08
jani<tinfoilhat> well, there are cases that chipmakers will do just one chip to cut the costs and then sell the same chip with multiple specs</tinfoilhat>11:08
*** Sargun has joined #maemo11:08
fralsif you now the chip can run at a higher frequence im pretty sure every manufacturer out there would label it with the higher freq...11:09
*** __a has joined #maemo11:09
infobotfrals meant: if you know the chip can run at a higher frequence im pretty sure every manufacturer out there would label it with the higher freq...11:09
meceaaha <tinfoilhat> ftw!11:09
TiagoTiagothe other day here someone told me Nokia tests phones under desert and artic conditions, that surelly can't be covered by the warranty11:09
X-FadeIf you would have read the actual specs of the cpu, you see the interesting MTBF table.11:09
RST38hThis has nothing to do with cpu clock speed11:09
psycho_oreosbut they are nokia test phones not consumer phones11:09
fralsTiagoTiago: operating conditions covered by warranty are listed on box/in manual afaik11:10
TiagoTiagoi woudln't expect Earth's extreme climates to be covered11:10
RST38hBut enough other people would11:10
crashanddieTiagoTiago: actually, it's far more likely that use in the desert/arctic shouldn't damage the device, and would be covered by warranty, rather than overclock the shit out of it11:10
MohammadAG51this again?11:10
crashanddieMohammadAG51: TiagoTiago is being an idiot11:10
RST38hMohammad: Getting newbies all the time here11:10
TiagoTiagothat is why i only said 50% over and not an order of magnitude above11:11
janibig bad boys have told me that some desktop cpu's are sold like that. not like all but in same cases, overclockers usually hunt down certain patch numbers of certain chips cuz they have been verified to be "better" than advertized where as chip sold with same but but maybe from different factory or patch, its not "as good".11:11
RST38hMohammad: And they are all pretty predictable, too11:11
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo11:11
* MohammadAG51 doesn't scroll up11:11
crashanddiejani: not patch, you're thinking WBN11:11
MohammadAG51lemme guess11:11
crashanddiejani: "Week Build Number"11:11
*** florian_kc is now known as florian11:11
MohammadAG51600MHz is an underclock cause nokia are idiots11:11
MohammadAG51the "community" knows what's best11:12
janiwell, wrong term but that was what i was referring to.11:12
crashanddieMohammadAG51: close, "Nokia should ensure that people can overclock their device by 50% safely"11:12
MohammadAG511.7GHz ftw11:12
RST38hAh, the length some people would go to due to the lack of social life...11:12
MohammadAG51crashanddie, uh11:12
TiagoTiagoat least int he laboratory they would verify it doesn't add any risk, but of course, ti woudln't be covered int he warranty11:12
MohammadAG51so underclock to less than 600MHz so users can overclock to 600?11:13
MohammadAG51that's... retarded11:13
crashanddieTiagoTiago: did you study to be this stupid?11:13
psycho_oreosoverclockers should always prepare a large wad of cash to ooze such things at and shouldn't complain if their overclocked device fries11:13
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo11:13
* MohammadAG51 has a suggestion11:13
psycho_oreosthat's the part and parcel you have to take for being stupid11:13
crashanddieespecially when you consider that most of the these discussions, be them overclocking desktop CPUs or mobile phones are based on nothing scientific, but rather just, in best case scenarios, "educated hunches"11:13
MohammadAG51whenever overclocking is mentioned, let the user keep yapping and ignore the discussion11:13
crashanddieif that11:13
crashanddieMohammadAG51: yeah, or +q11:14
psycho_oreosonly ops have power to +q, normal users can only /ignore :)11:14
MohammadAG51crashanddie, is an op11:14
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o psycho_oreos11:14
crashanddiego ahead11:14
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o psycho_oreos11:14
TiagoTiagook, i guess i see your point, yeah, it would be quite difficult to be able to achieve those results without the overclock actually being regular clock11:14
*** Flyser has quit IRC11:15
TiagoTiagohm, the backup didn't trigger any installation, where are all my apps?11:15
psycho_oreostoo quick, I don't even have a script to do that anyway, but *shrugs*11:15
TiagoTiagoit oppened HAM but then nothign happened11:15
crashanddiewho needs a script?11:15
MohammadAG51/mkick ftw11:15
psycho_oreosgrep the target :)11:15
MohammadAG51(don't do that)11:15
TiagoTiagoah, operation in progress, ok11:15
MohammadAG51seriously, don't11:15
crashanddieMohammadAG51: nobody's an op11:16
psycho_oreoschanserv can also clear the channel if needed be11:16
MohammadAG51crashanddie, you don't know what op might wanna try it :P11:16
crashanddieIrssi: Unknown command: mkick11:16
MohammadAG51xchat only11:16
MohammadAG51it kicks everyone11:16
crashanddieeasier to +m the channel11:17
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo11:17
MohammadAG51well, it works in certain scenarios11:17
MohammadAG51like when moving channels11:17
psycho_oreosor channel takeovers11:18
MohammadAG51+i the channel, mkick11:18
crashanddiepsycho_oreos: no, chanserv doesn't "clear" the channel. recover allows you to remove the bans that affect a specific op, deop everyone else, mute the channel, let you join and auto-op you when you join11:18
MohammadAG51psycho_oreos, glines ftw, well... at least on private servers11:18
psycho_oreoscrashanddie, o.O ok maybe not on this services, but I believe there was on others, can't remember which11:18
crashanddiewhich is a lot more effective than any kind of mass-kick which is just silly11:19
psycho_oreosMohammadAG51, lol glines require oper powers or in this case staff11:19
crashanddiethe whole point about having a channel with people is to keep them there11:19
merlin1991hm can you access the n900 file system on linux in pc suite mode like the gay phone browser you get on win then?11:19
MohammadAG51psycho_oreos, that's why i said private severs ;)11:19
MohammadAG51merlin1991, ifup usb011:19
psycho_oreosmerlin1991, you can if you use usb networking and sshfs11:19
psycho_oreosMohammadAG51, lol11:19
merlin1991doh I hoped there would be another way :D11:20
psycho_oreosmerlin1991, actually usb networking is optional, sshfs is mandatory11:20
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: anyways, so what frequency you were using and for how long?11:20
TiagoTiago900 for a few days11:20
jacekowskimerlin1991: you can11:20
merlin1991I bet I'll loose my 3g connection then though :D11:20
merlin1991wish me luck11:21
jacekowskimerlin1991: but you can do it in normal memory stick like mode11:21
* TiagoTiago goes do some math to see if that is 50% over11:21
merlin1991but I want to transfer files now and I'm using it as a modem11:21
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: it is11:21
MohammadAG51it doesn't need epic math skills11:21
TiagoTiagooh, right11:21
*** calvaris has quit IRC11:21
jacekowskibut government would tell you it's onlu 33%11:21
TiagoTiagoi'm not thinking straight11:21
psycho_oreosthere's many ways, pc suite software over wine, pc suite software over windows inside vm, using another daemon like nfs, etc11:21
jacekowskiit it would be tax11:21
jacekowskinot frequency11:21
TiagoTiagoshould be sleeping, but stayed awake to try to fix things11:21
TiagoTiagohm, will it be a problem that a couple of the stuff the backup is restoring in HAM need rebooting?11:22
*** rcg has joined #maemo11:23
*** tackat has quit IRC11:23
*** tackat has joined #maemo11:23
*** guardian has joined #maemo11:24
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC11:25
*** calvaris has joined #maemo11:26
*** polymar has joined #maemo11:28
*** plq has joined #maemo11:31
*** johnx has joined #maemo11:31
*** TomaszD has quit IRC11:34
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo11:34
merlin1991hm I'm getting errors when using ifup usb0 and ifdown usb011:36
merlin1991ifup tells me /usr/lib/avahi/ line 143: diff: not found11:36
MohammadAG51ignore it11:36
merlin1991but the interface gets up11:36
MohammadAG51same here11:37
merlin1991ifdown does the same + an errorline with sh: missing ]11:37
*** `0660 has joined #maemo11:37
*** Muttley has joined #maemo11:39
* merlin1991 wonders what the pw of the "user" user is11:42
jacekowskiwhy would anybody need pw for it11:43
merlin1991I have no idea, just a thought :D11:43
*** guardian has quit IRC11:43
merlin1991and now it's time for another newb question, anyone got a link to a tutorial on coding c using glib?11:44
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo11:44
TiagoTiagogotta give nokia the props though, even after i messed up, it seems i don't even need to to send my N900 to a repair shop to fix things, i'm doing it myself, and i don't even need a screwdriver :D11:44
crashanddiemerlin1991: google does11:50
crashanddiemerlin1991: by the way, is 1991 your birth year?11:50
TiagoTiagocrap, to install the backuped applicaitons int will use more memory than i have somehow11:50
*** raster has joined #maemo11:50
merlin1991crashanddie, google had loads, one worse than the other, and jup it is11:50
crashanddieno, it can't be11:50
crashanddiekids born after 1990 can't talk11:50
crashanddiethey're too young11:50
crashanddieI'm old11:50
merlin1991atm I'm sitting @ the army base doing my mandatory service with a notebook, lol11:51
crashanddieI know some kid who was born on 1st January 200011:51
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC11:51
psycho_oreosI think kids born after 1990 are more or less the i-gen or so I hope (yay, hopefully we can finally set a barrier for gen-y and i-gen)11:51
crashanddiebloody easy to remember his birthday (even though nobody ever celebrates it)11:51
MiXu-I feel so old11:51
crashanddiethat's because you are11:52
TiagoTiagocould be worse, he could have been born xmass morning11:52
crashanddieTiagoTiago: nha, that's fine11:52
*** Flyser has joined #maemo11:52
crashanddieTiagoTiago: imagine when you're 18, everyone gets wasted at 31st december around 23:3011:52
crashanddiethen everyone starts yapping about "Happy new year"11:52
crashanddieand nobody wishes you a happy birthday -- they're all puking11:53
merlin1991so crashanddie maybe you have a nice url for me?11:53
MiXu-crashanddie: lol11:53
TiagoTiagokids born that time often don't get birthday gifts, and the gifts they get are less expensive cause everyone is buying everyone gifts11:53
crashanddiemerlin1991: maybe, but you're not going to like it11:53
merlin1991perfect then, share it11:53
*** cehteh has quit IRC11:54
*** TomaszD has joined #maemo11:54
TiagoTiagogonna unisntall everything and then restore first the essentials fromt he backup, and only then gradually reinstall stuff11:54
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo11:55
johnxmerlin1991, protip: antagonizing crashanddie will not get you what you want11:55
johnxhmmm brownout here. guess that means bedtime11:56
TiagoTiagogood luck11:56
crashanddiejohnx: night mate11:56
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo11:57
TiagoTiagoi guess 'ill be goign too, the sun is rising again....11:57
*** TiagoTiago has quit IRC12:00
*** wazd has joined #maemo12:01
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC12:01
*** niku__ has joined #maemo12:02
*** rblank has joined #maemo12:02
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC12:02
*** t_s_o has quit IRC12:04
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo12:04
*** cehteh has joined #maemo12:08
*** habmala has joined #maemo12:11
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo12:13
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo12:15
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo12:16
*** zap has joined #maemo12:18
alteregoIf only Nokia would open source that new gas balls app :/12:18
alteregoI really want to write my own :)12:18
*** Finnish has quit IRC12:19
MohammadAGgas balls?12:19
alteregoThink I might have to look into reversing it today, I know it's using gles12:19
keriogas balls?12:19
alteregoMohammadAG: it's a relly nice pretty app that can run as a desktop background.12:19
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo12:19
keriooh, it's not fart-related12:19
alteregoMuch better than the one thnat's being developed in maemo at the moment.12:20
MohammadAGkerio, err, no one farts from their balls12:20
keriobut in zero-gravity, you fart gas balls12:20
alteregoIt's on Ovi, check it out, it's really pretty :)12:20
* MohammadAG apt-gets gas-balls12:20
alteregoAnd free, developed byu "Nokia" but not open :/12:21
* kerio gets his nokia-bashing suit12:21
MohammadAGwidgets move, background doesn't12:23
MohammadAGthe way live-bg should do it12:23
alteregoYou think it's a widget?12:23
* hrw played with Qt Creator - nice IDE12:24
alteregohrw: yeah, I use it quite a lot now.12:25
MohammadAGalterego, it's not a widget, that's for sure12:25
hrwtoo bad that Qt Simulator does not have proper Maemo widgets emulation12:25
*** wazd has quit IRC12:26
alteregoyeah, looks like a new layer just above the root window12:26
*** Ordog_by has quit IRC12:26
alteregohrw: too bad it doesn't have a lot of proper emulation, the only thing I found it particulalry useful for was QtQuick12:26
*** Ordog_by has joined #maemo12:26
MohammadAGalterego, it sees widgets12:27
*** wazd has joined #maemo12:27
alteregoYeah, I know technically how to do all of that12:28
*** gomiam has joined #maemo12:28
alteregoIt's the main window I want to create though :)12:29
*** rlinfati has joined #maemo12:30
*** calvaris has quit IRC12:30
*** Lazy^_ is now known as Lazy^12:31
*** Sargun has quit IRC12:32
*** guardian has joined #maemo12:32
*** wazd has quit IRC12:34
*** povbot has joined #maemo14:59
RST38hwazd: cool =)14:59
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo15:00
*** zeq has joined #maemo15:01
wazdlcuk: what about 1 pixel cycling days? :D15:01
kkesometimes my n900 has this "slide this slider to unlock" -thing when i pull it out of my pocket, where does that come from? proximity sensor?15:01
merlin1991top button15:02
merlin1991the one to switch on and of15:02
achipaX-Fade: ping15:02
keriothat you also use to lock15:02
kkei lock using the lock-switch15:02
kerio(the sliding button is awkward to use for me)15:02
MohammadAGkke, double press the power key15:03
lcukwazd, great idea, but thats only needed on small displays :P15:03
MohammadAGwhat's the lockscreen app?15:03
MohammadAGerr, binary15:03
MohammadAGthe old PR1.0 one had a transition15:03
MohammadAGwhen you unlock the device15:03
*** krau has quit IRC15:05
*** Vudentz has quit IRC15:05
*** monoceros has quit IRC15:05
*** Vudentz has joined #maemo15:08
*** krau has joined #maemo15:09
*** tackat has quit IRC15:09
*** briglia has joined #maemo15:10
VenemoMohammadAG: really? what sort of transition?15:10
MohammadAGit fades down15:11
MohammadAGinstead of disappearing all of a sudden15:11
MohammadAGtrying to find a video15:11
*** nicu has joined #maemo15:11
*** jukey has joined #maemo15:12
VenemoMohammadAG: ?15:12
VenemoMohammadAG: indeed there is a small transition, but I can see it only on the "swipe to unlock" screen15:13
*** pablo2 has joined #maemo15:15
Venemonah, I have to go now15:18
*** Venemo has left #maemo15:18
*** wazd has quit IRC15:19
defraggerdoes anybody already used the mame emulator on maemo?15:21
defraggerwhere do i have to put the roms into?15:21
*** mece has quit IRC15:22
*** zeq has quit IRC15:22
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC15:26
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo15:26
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo15:26
*** tackat has joined #maemo15:27
*** marciom has joined #maemo15:28
keriowireless headphones ^_^15:30
pigeondefragger: by default it looks at ~/MyDocs/roms and /media/mmc1/roms/15:31
pigeondefragger: i.e. roms/ folder either on the internal flash or micro sd card15:31
*** Jucato has joined #maemo15:31
defraggerpigeon: thanks, my failure was a not working rom :)15:33
*** Wikier has quit IRC15:34
*** KaKaRoTo has joined #maemo15:34
KaKaRoToMohammadAG, salam15:34
MohammadAGyo :)15:34
*** TeringTuby has quit IRC15:35
KaKaRoToMohammadAG, ok.. what did you want me to say now ?15:35
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo15:36
MohammadAGthat you got the PS Jailbreak working? :)15:36
KaKaRoTooh yeah, right15:36
KaKaRoTothe news : PSJailbreak working from the N900!!!!15:36
xnt14KaKaRoTo, o_015:36
KaKaRoTowill release it soon... (now.. or when I wake up...)15:36
xnt14KaKaRoTo, awesome15:37
MNZwow! nice work KaKaRoTo!15:37
xnt14now only if I had my ps3 with me...15:37
xnt14KaKaRoTo, won't your blog explode with all the hits?15:37
KaKaRoToI hope not...15:37
*** gomiam has quit IRC15:38
xnt14KaKaRoTo, whats it hosted on?15:38
KaKaRoTowe'll see15:38
MNZsome one should digg it ;)15:38
KaKaRoToxnt14, my home linux server15:38
xnt14KaKaRoTo, if it does, I can mirror it for you if you want... :)15:38
*** zeq has joined #maemo15:39
*** tackat has quit IRC15:39
*** tackat has joined #maemo15:40
KaKaRoToguys.. find me a name for the project!15:41
KaKaRoTofor now it's psjailbreak, but that's not good enough..15:41
xnt14KaKaRoTo, hmm15:41
KaKaRoToI was thinking of ps3brew...15:41
KaKaRoToanyone have a better idea ? (I suck at names)15:41
xnt14does it have to be related to the ps3?15:41
xnt14the name I mean15:41
SpeedEvilPlaystation Software Easily! Or Psseasy.15:41
KaKaRoToSpeedEvil, ok, no more names from you :p15:42
KaKaRoToxnt14, preferebly, yes...15:42
KaKaRoToFYI, it's a linux kernel driver, so it's not maemo specific15:42
KaKaRoToit could be used for android or palm or whatever...15:42
keriodon't tell them that15:42
SpeedEvilAre there other uses?15:43
SpeedEvilI mean - is it simply for the crack?15:43
SpeedEvilOr could it be meaningfully used in orther scenarios15:43
kerioit's not a crack15:43
kerioit's arbitrary code running15:43
KaKaRoToxnt14, PSFree is good... but is it better than PS3Brew ?15:43
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC15:44
kerioKaKaRoTo: DO YOU HATE JEWS SON15:44
KaKaRoTokerio, yes, why ? :p15:44
*** chenca has joined #maemo15:45
xnt14KaKaRoTo, hmm, no how about PSBrewFree?15:45
KaKaRoTohard to pronounce15:46
KaKaRoTobah, forget it15:46
DuckbootPssst then15:46
KaKaRoTops3ix :)15:47
MNZI like that15:47
xnt14sounds good IMO15:47
xnt14MNZ, o_0 ?15:48
*** nhdezoito has joined #maemo15:48
DuckbootWhat about: Pubes15:48
MNZxnt14, it rhymes with PSFreedom!15:48
xnt14MNZ, ah :P15:48
xnt14kerio, lol :)15:48
KaKaRoToxnt14, I think i'll go with ps3free15:49
xnt14KaKaRoTo, well PSFreedom sounds better...15:49
MohammadAGthis stuff works :D15:51
MohammadAGThanks KaKaRoTo, epic work :)15:51
xnt14MohammadAG, you have it?15:52
keriodammit, my wireless headphones suck15:52
keriothe sound is clipped on the high frequencies15:52
keriois this an artefact of the A2SP?15:52
MohammadAGxnt14, wait for KaKaRoTo's release ;)15:53
SpeedEvilDuckboot: Re - Pubes - I like the way you think - do you have a newsletter or magazine I may subscribe to?15:53
xnt14MohammadAG, k :(15:53
KaKaRoTook, maybe (probably) I suck at making videos...15:53
DuckbootSpeedEvil: ;-P15:54
kerioyay, it's just OSX being an asshole15:55
*** th3_4zarado has joined #maemo15:55
xnt14KaKaRoTo, hmm, problem is that you can't see what actually happened...15:56
KaKaRoToxnt14, yeah, I know15:56
Duckbootkerio: It's a relic from when Steve Jobs programmed his own personality in the OS15:56
KaKaRoTook, I'll skip the video until tomorrow, then i'll make a better one15:56
xnt14KaKaRoTo, whats your timezone btw?15:56
KaKaRoToxnt14, it's 9AM here15:59
KaKaRoToand by tomorrow, I mean today.. but when I wake up..15:59
KaKaRoToand after work...15:59
xnt14ah... k15:59
xnt14KaKaRoTo, San Fran?16:00
xnt14oh, nevermind16:00
xnt14ah, ok, I'm in NY btw16:01
xnt14oh, I fail, I'm looking at other clocks, but not my own :P16:01
GAN900If we don't get enough nomination for the community council election, we have to postpone the election by a month.16:02
GAN900So get out there and nominate.16:02
*** th3_4zarado has quit IRC16:03
*** frikinz has joined #maemo16:04
*** h4waii has joined #maemo16:07
drizztbsdhi KaKaRoTo!16:08
ShadowJKwell if there arent enough nominees, the elction can be skipped16:08
SpeedEvilIs there a list of eligable people?16:08
drizztbsdso do you want to release it today (i'm on gmt+2)16:09
*** panaggio has joined #maemo16:09
drizztbsdI tried the other hack (ps3pwn) for n900 omap, but it doesn't work (for the usb otg problem)16:10
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo16:10
FIQ|n900not the best question to ask here, but is there any svn application (cli or gui, both works fine for me)16:10
drizztbsdsvn for n900?16:11
FIQ|n900? - apt-cache search svn gives nothing16:11
FIQ|n900svn client yes16:11
drizztbsdyes, but it's in extras-devel16:11
h4waiisubversion is the package name.16:11
FIQ|n900ah, it's fine16:11
drizztbsdapt-get install subversion16:11
FIQ|n900h4waii, ah16:11
*** niku__ has left #maemo16:12
*** hardaker2 has joined #maemo16:14
* drizztbsd wants official ipv6 support16:14
keriohow official?16:15
drizztbsdmicrob, email application, etc16:15
drizztbsdI know I can use titan kernel, but only with firefox (and maybe opera)16:15
*** h4waii has left #maemo16:15
kerioyou can use ipv6 with microb too16:16
kerioit's in about:config16:16
drizztbsdoh, ok16:16
*** ptlo has quit IRC16:16
*** n900evil has quit IRC16:17
*** n900evil has joined #maemo16:18
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC16:19
crashanddiewho was the nutjob going on about encryption on the N900?16:19
*** mardi has quit IRC16:19
xnt14why does my volume increment if I mash the keyboard on the N900?16:20
MNZcrashanddie, tobis8716:21
crashanddieMNZ: thanks16:21
*** Termana has joined #maemo16:22
KaKaRoToreleased !16:22
xnt14KaKaRoTo, :D16:22
xnt14KaKaRoTo, :) you used my name16:23
SpeedEvilxnt14: At a guess - the keyboard matrix is not n-key-rollover friendly, and the volume keys are part of rthe keyboard matrix16:23
SpeedEvilxnt14: this can also be seen by shift-blue-k16:23
KaKaRoToxnt14, yep16:23
xnt14SpeedEvil, k16:23
*** plq has quit IRC16:23
xnt14KaKaRoTo, now only if I wasn't at work, or if I had brought my PS3 with me...16:24
*** jrocha has quit IRC16:24
*** MiXu- has quit IRC16:24
KaKaRoToxnt14, :p16:24
KaKaRoTonow if only I wasn't dead, I could use what I spent the week working on16:25
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo16:25
*** TomaszD2 has joined #maemo16:25
xnt14KaKaRoTo, I would walk home, but its a long way..16:25
KaKaRoToxnt14, if it's any consolation, I won't be able to use it either, until tomorrow :p16:25
*** pekuja has joined #maemo16:26
xnt14KaKaRoTo, k, thanks :P16:26
*** tekojo has quit IRC16:26
pekujasorry if this is not appropriate for this channel, but is there a way to find out how long a previously made phone call was?16:26
GAN900SpeedEvil, dneary posted one on the list, I believe.16:27
* KaKaRoTo gets flooded in two channels now..16:27
GAN900ShadowJK, indeed, however I don't believe that's a good plan.16:27
pekujathe call history only seems to tell me when the call happened and who called whom16:27
ShadowJKGAN900, well let's just  vote for one candidate then16:27
ShadowJKor something16:27
Stskeepslast person standing turns off the lights and servers16:27
pigeonhmm, KaKaRoTo, isn't that dragon ball...16:28
KaKaRoTopigeon, yep16:28
pigeonexcellent :)16:28
GAN900Stskeeps, not nearly as funny as it sounds.16:28
crashanddieKaKaRoTo: nice work. Thanks.16:29
crashanddieKaKaRoTo: what does it enable, exactly?16:29
* KaKaRoTo needs to stop thanking those who thank me.. and go to sleep16:29
KaKaRoTocrashanddie, enable installation of homebrew applications on the PS316:29
tank-manability to run unsigned code i think16:29
crashanddieso should I expect to see cheating bastards crowd the servers these days?16:30
KaKaRoToit emulates a modchip that uses an exploit on the usb hub driver of the ps316:30
tobis87MNZ: yes?16:30
crashanddieso it's the same/reverse engineered stuff as what those aussies released?16:30
KaKaRoTocrashanddie, nah, they're all in #ps3dev on EFNet...16:30
KaKaRoTocrashanddie, MohammadAG asked me to announce it here.. he was talking to me about possible kernel patches...16:30
lcukStskeeps, turn the lights off by all means, but we need to keep the server running16:30
KaKaRoTobut in the end, I did it without the need to patch/flash the kernel16:30
MohammadAGcrashanddie, no cheating bastards yet16:31
crashanddieany banned bastards yet?16:31
MohammadAGI didn't sign in16:31
crashanddieI have 2 PS3s, so I can afford to have one banned... But it would be crap though16:31
MohammadAGanyone up for setting up an alternate PSN? :P16:32
MNZtobis87, nothing, crashanddie was asking about the person doing all that encryption stuff16:32
*** nhdezoito has quit IRC16:32
crashanddietobis87: if you want to achieve pretty decent security, there's a manufacturer who released microSD cards with a smartcard component16:32
dnearyhmmm... empathy problems. Switching to pidgin16:32
crashanddietobis87: which means that they have a hardware crypto-processor, and are physically secure to resist tampering16:32
crashanddietobis87: I have one, and I've compiled the driver for it, been playing with it a bit for the past year or two (I had access to an R&D version)16:33
*** nhdezoito has joined #maemo16:33
crashanddietobis87: apparently they're freely available these days. You can load your PKI keys on them, and use that to encrypt the filesystem16:33
tobis87well, my point is to get everything working which the n900 could do, don't want to buy something, if it is already there, but not used16:34
*** mosmm has joined #maemo16:34
crashanddiebecause they also have about 1 or 2GB of storage, you could technically make the N900 boot from the SD card, and then decrypt using the on-board keys16:34
crashanddie(using a PIN code to unlock the carD)16:34
crashanddieit works using a streaming file on the SD card, you write commands to it, and they are interpreted by the card16:35
tobis87the driver is very new, it is only two weeks old, so I should calm down a little bit, i could have expected it to not work yet16:35
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo16:35
*** murrayc has quit IRC16:36
tobis87we should make a list of components the n900 has build in, which are not used: eg. the crypto stuff, the audio chip which could be used for hardware mixing and so on.16:37
MNZ tobis87, that information is in the wiki hardware articles16:37
tobis87it does even support des acceleration, but no driver yet16:38
SpeedEvilapt-get install john-the-ripper16:38
*** __a has joined #maemo16:39
drizztbsdKaKaRoTo: do you enable also the backup launcher?16:39
drizztbsdand can you release the sourcecode? so I can port it to webos and/or android :)16:40
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC16:40
tobis87yeah, i know it could be broken fast, but why does the kernel has buildin des? there has to be some use, and this could get accelerated...16:40
SpeedEvilThe kernel has builtin encryption modules of all sorts.16:41
crashanddietobis87: OTP16:41
SpeedEvilSome of which are cryptographically weak at the moment.16:41
crashanddietobis87: most OTP algorithms are loosely based on DES or 3DES16:41
drizztbsdKaKaRoTo: or to titan kernel16:41
tobis87MNZ: where ?16:42
SpeedEviltobis87: There isn't unfortunately a central list of missing features.16:42
SpeedEviltobis87: I noted it on eack page as I wrote it.16:42
SpeedEvilThough I see the CPU page is actually missing the note of encryption16:43
tobis87i don't mean features, i mean hardware, which lies there idle and unused16:44
crashanddietobis87: 3DES keys still require a few hours to be broken, and OTPs are only valid for mere seconds, and the key is immediately regenerated16:44
SpeedEvilthat's what I mean - hardware features that are unused16:44
SpeedEvilUnutilised functions16:44
jacekowskicrashanddie: question is how usefull that data will be to attacker later16:45
*** mardy has quit IRC16:45
tobbKaKaRoTo: what kernel is it built for? Mine disagrees about version of symbol struct_module16:45
crashanddiejacekowski: how so?16:45
jacekowskii mean in general any encryption will just delay when attacker gets plaintext16:46
jacekowskiand whole point is to delay it beyond when it's still usable for attacker16:46
crashanddiejacekowski: which is exactly what I explained '[-_-]16:46
*** jreznik has quit IRC16:46
*** mardy has joined #maemo16:46
jacekowskibut you have to assume that attacker may get lucky16:46
jacekowskiand get correct key with first try16:47
SpeedEvilno, you don't.16:47
SpeedEvilDo you also assume for insurance purposes that your house may be hit by a meteorite?16:47
SpeedEvilSure - it's happened to one person.16:48
obsidiethso uh.16:48
SpeedEvilDoes that mean it's worthwhile insuring against - probably not.16:48
obsidiethim getting a lot of 'audio codec not supported' when i try and play movies.16:48
obsidiethis there a codec pack avaliable.16:48
crashanddiejacekowski: OTP is generated, you have 1m32s to use it. After that, it's no use to anyone. you only have a tiny bit of information, and from that you need to deduce the 3DES private key, the secret, the salt, the decay timer, the time counter and the event counter... All that from maximum 10 random digits...16:48
lcukmy house was hit be a meteorite you insensitive clod16:48
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC16:48
* luke-jr has meteorite insurance…16:48
tobis87i don't want to use 3des or des, i have just noted that there is support for it (des_ick in kernel-2.6.28/arch/arm/mach-omap2/clock24xx.h) and I'm not that mad at crypto, otp is unusable in practice...16:48
SpeedEvilOTP is not unusable.16:49
*** avs has quit IRC16:49
crashanddieOTP is unusable in practice? Where the hell do you live mate?16:49
SpeedEvilOTP is quite adequate for many apps.16:49
tobis87for small messages16:49
luke-jrI agree that OTP is fairly useless16:49
SpeedEvilEspecially given that carrying around a dozen gigabyte pad is now no longer an issue.16:49
lcukrot13 is quite adequate for many apps also16:49
SpeedEvilEspecially as you can pop it out, and chew it up.16:49
tobis87but, how do want to encrypt a harddrive? the key would have to have the same size16:50
crashanddieSpeedEvil: I think they don't want to understand the use, quite frankly16:50
crashanddietobis87: lolwut?16:50
SpeedEvilOTP is the one provable secure crypto system.16:50
luke-jrcrashanddie: what's the use, then?16:50
SpeedEvilAny others in principle can be broken by advances in technology.16:50
crashanddieluke-jr: bank access, vpn access, basically, any kind of authentication.16:50
*** _Lucretia__ is now known as _Lucretia_16:51
SpeedEvilWith OTP - once you've thrown away the pad - there is no theoretical way the conversation can be deduced.16:51
*** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC16:51
*** _Lucretia_ has joined #maemo16:51
luke-jrmaybe I'm thinking of something else16:51
lcuktobis87, different uses of encryption, sure a otp will be useless for hard drive long term storage16:51
lcukbut the guys have just given many examples where it is practical16:51
crashanddielcuk: no, it won't16:51
*** mardy has quit IRC16:51
luke-jrwhat's the non-standard "encryption" in Pidgin?16:51
tobis87Each bit or character from the plaintext is encrypted by a modular addition with a bit or character from a secret random key (or pad) of the same length as the plaintext, resulting in a ciphertext.16:51
crashanddielcuk: OTP would be perfectly adapted for hard drive encryption16:52
*** mardy has joined #maemo16:52
crashanddielcuk: heck, the MET Police, and the US government use it exactly for that16:52
crashanddieI should know, I fucking implemented the systems16:52
crashanddieand when I say US government, I mean US DoD.16:52
*** tomast has joined #maemo16:52
xnt14crashanddie, implemented what?16:53
crashanddiethe bootloader includes an OTP validation system, which secures the private key (this can be an HSM of any sort, big bulky hardware or smartcard) used to encrypt the hard drive16:53
lcukI thought the key aspect of a OTP was that it was used one time16:53
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Basically RAID, but with a OTP disk?16:53
lcukstoring it on a postit note to use later16:53
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo16:53
lcukisnt really otp16:53
crashanddieyou authenticate to the system, which unlocks the private key, deduces a session key and you're good to go16:54
*** dos1 has joined #maemo16:54
crashanddiewell, OTP is just the key, which is all OTP has always been16:54
lcukright, so the otp guards the real "fixed" keys rather than being used for the encryption on the drive itself16:54
crashanddiewhether you unlock a website, your phone or a hard drive makes no difference whatsoever16:55
crashanddielcuk: hard drive encryption *never* uses an private key provided to the user16:55
*** __al has joined #maemo16:55
crashanddielcuk: you always have something that unlocks the "real fixed keys"16:55
*** __a has quit IRC16:55
*** __al is now known as __a16:55
crashanddiewhether that's a password, a private key, whatever16:55
crashanddiethe fixed keys never leave the hard drive, frankly16:56
crashanddieand if they do, you're bound to be pwned16:56
crashanddiethis works with hardware or software hard drive encryption16:56
*** mardy has quit IRC16:57
lcuktobis87, did you get any input in your original quesiton by the way16:57
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo16:57
crashanddieheck, some seagate drives even re-encrypt the drive on the fly when you've "decrypted it" by inputting your auth, so that a cold boot attack would be useless (or virtually useless)16:57
*** mtnbkr has joined #maemo17:02
tobis87lcuk: which question? about the dma burst modes? these are no different modes, but the size of the burst differs, nah i think i have to wait until the mantainer of the driver has time, i have however posted it on maemo-devel17:02
*** mardy has joined #maemo17:02
tobis87lcuk: this hardware flaw could however be releated:
*** n900evil has quit IRC17:03
luke-jr[08:56:20] <crashanddie> the fixed keys never leave the hard drive, frankly17:04
luke-jrcrashanddie: not even to the kernel, for software encryption?17:04
lcuktobis87, that would be:
lcuk"N900 AES and SHA1/MD5 hw acceleration drivers"17:05
lcukI gather17:05
lcukit just helps to keep them together :) a big chunk of encryption talk followed by some of the work you are doing may help others interested and capable looking :)17:05
*** TomaszD2 has quit IRC17:06
*** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th17:06
crashanddieluke-jr: well, if you have a hardware-encrypted hard drive, no. In software, obviously it goes through the CPU, no idea where it goes through in terms of kernel though.17:06
dnearyGAN900, You called?17:06
*** __a has quit IRC17:06
*** jrocha has joined #maemo17:06
*** mardy has quit IRC17:07
crashanddieluke-jr: I was more thinking in terms of leaving the box. If your box is pwned to the point where you have access to the CPU/kernel registers, then any kind of encryption will be cracked in due time17:07
*** mardy has joined #maemo17:08
*** ruskie has quit IRC17:08
GAN900dneary, was telling SpeedEvil you posted a eligible candidate list somewhere.17:09
*** TomaszD2 has joined #maemo17:09
*** TomaszD2 has quit IRC17:09
*** panaggio has quit IRC17:09
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo17:10
luke-jrI'm not eligible⁈⁈ :<17:10
*** _berto_ has quit IRC17:10
*** ruskie has joined #maemo17:11
crashanddieGAN900: are you running again?17:12
*** mardy has quit IRC17:12
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC17:12
*** mardy has joined #maemo17:13
*** ToJa92 has quit IRC17:13
*** ToJa92_ has joined #maemo17:13
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo17:14
*** Termana has quit IRC17:14
*** ToJa92_ is now known as ToJa9217:14
GAN900crashanddie, god no.17:15
crashanddielcuk: that's pretty cool, that quickflickr thing17:15
StskeepsGAN900: nominate abill_uk17:15
crashanddielcuk: seriously good looking and seamless!17:15
crashanddieis randy running again?17:16
MohammadAGNominate me17:16
lcukcrashanddie, yeah it looks like an awesome app17:16
MohammadAGjk xD17:16
GAN900crashanddie, dunno if he's decided.17:16
GAN900MohammadAG, nominate yourself.17:16
crashanddieI thought you had to be 18+ to run for candidate?17:17
MohammadAGwhy should I17:17
MohammadAG<GAN900> crashanddie, god no.17:17
crashanddieGAN900: to do your duty17:17
crashanddieMohammadAG: to do your duty17:17
MohammadAGI heard the army's better17:17
*** mardy has quit IRC17:17
crashanddieyou don't get nokia goodies in the army17:18
crashanddieyou get taliban goodies17:18
lcukdepends which army :P17:18
MohammadAGNokia goodies like what?17:18
MohammadAGPR1.3? they can keep it17:18
* lcuk slaps you 17:18
crashanddieMohammadAG: funding for Dublin :D17:18
MohammadAGcrashanddie, they can keep that too :P17:18
*** mardy has joined #maemo17:18
GAN900A devices and travel (sometimes)17:18
crashanddieif you got it, you'd so be in it17:18
crashanddieGAN900: hey, you didn't travel because of the idiocy of the US burocracy17:19
MohammadAGI have school, I might skip 3 days and come, but not so sure after seeing what I have to study this year17:19
crashanddieit's balls that the con is 3 full weekdays17:20
GAN900crashanddie, well, I'm more noting who was and wasn't invited to LFCSSF17:20
drizztbsdn900 still alive!17:20
lcukcrashanddie, how about yourself17:20
GAN900crashanddie, we want to appeal to corporate people, though!17:20
MohammadAGthe con should've been from Fri till Sun tbh17:20
drizztbsdI charged the battery using a lab power source, current limited to 200mA and volt limited to 4.2v17:21
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo17:21
GAN900Even though the overwhelming majority of the registered attendees are unaffiliated.17:21
GAN900MohammadAG, it should've17:21
crashanddielcuk: the community may be "Maemo Community", but it doesn't mean they're masochistic enough to elect me17:21
GAN900But as with most things MeeGo, it's not FOR us.17:21
crashanddieHow about we organise our own con?17:21
*** larsivi has quit IRC17:22
GAN900The MeeGo folks will, of course, retort with "well, you're welcome to arrange community days on the weekend."17:22
GAN900"People even seem to be doing that as we speak!"17:22
lcukcrashanddie, stand.17:22
GAN900Except they wont pay for it.17:22
crashanddieI'm serious, let's find an old crappy hotel with a big hall, on the brink of being torn down, and let's host our own event17:23
GAN900crashanddie, people are organizing community days.17:23
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC17:23
crashanddiefuck community days17:23
crashanddieI'm not going to Dublin for MeeGo17:23
GAN900I don't have the free funds to pay for the hotel and travel, though.17:23
*** mardy has quit IRC17:23
crashanddieI'm talking about a Maemo event17:23
GAN900Ah, well then.17:23
*** mardy has joined #maemo17:24
GAN900Sounds like a very appropriate location plan.17:24
crashanddiethat's why I'm talking about an old mushy hotel17:24
*** mirsal has joined #maemo17:24
crashanddiewe're geeks, so except for the handful who have skin problems and dozens with asthma, we'll be fine -- we don't wash17:24
crashanddieso we don't even need hot water!17:25
crashanddieheck, WE DON'T NEED WATER!17:25
crashanddieBeer will do.17:25
crashanddieLet's get sponsorship from Heineken or Stella Artois17:25
crashanddielcuk: see, even when I have ideas I believe in I can't remain serious...17:26
crashanddieI'm not made for politics.17:26
crashanddieGAN900: how much is a return trip in cattle class?17:26
crashanddieGAN900: about $1500? Maybe less if we find good dates17:27
*** kurosu has joined #maemo17:27
crashanddieLet's ask Skype and Adobe to help out17:27
*** habmala has joined #maemo17:27
crashanddieSmall donations, $1 or $2k17:27
kurosuHi, is there a define to detect the maemo platform when building a C/C++ program ?17:27
MohammadAGcrashanddie, liking the idea, is Israel a good place for the event? :P17:27
*** mardy has quit IRC17:28
*** __a has joined #maemo17:28
crashanddiekurosu: test #ifdef MAEMO517:28
crashanddiekurosu: or #ifdef MAEMO17:29
kurosucrashanddie: perfect17:29
crashanddiekurosu: not sure if those work, test them before17:29
kurosu(also lol, a wrong clicking sent me to the #ifdef channel (which was defined but void)17:29
*** Ordog_by has quit IRC17:29
kurosucrashanddie: this is for reference, i'm not the one building code for maemo17:30
crashanddiekurosu: there may also be #ifdef Q_WS_MAEMO5 (if coding with Qt)17:30
lcuk:) seb, before you continue your train of thought, go and nominate yourself.17:30
GAN900I'm backing crashanddie here.17:30
crashanddiecouncil is the best way to get out of touch with the community17:31
GAN900Too much nonsense around here these days to run for council.17:31
GAN900You'd really have to hate yourself.17:31
crashanddieyou're stuck between hate, incomprehension and nokia burocracy17:31
crashanddiethe council was a brilliant idea17:32
crashanddieand it still is17:32
GAN900And Intel's now, too.17:32
GAN900Which is even worse, somehow.17:32
kurosucrashanddie: anyway, I'd go otherwise with detection through the host var in a configure script17:32
crashanddiethe problem is that as soon as the council announces something to the community where they have to reveal they've discussed with Nokia prior to opening up to the community, you get the whole "nokia whores" and "nokiapologisers" songs in chorus17:32
*** mardy has joined #maemo17:34
Stskeepsthe challenge is that was, deep down a mix of a application developer community and power users. these seeked to be more involved in the system and decisions being made, slow progress being made, some not. system developers appeared (Mer), trying to organise to make a difference. then nokia and intel preempts the next 2 years of us waiting for things to open up and start from 100% open. system developers can move on easily ...17:34
Stskeeps... to meego as there's a OS to be developed. app developers come when there's a platform to run against. power users come when the platform and apps are there. problem and negativity stems from these phase changes where things got worked on to get ready.17:34
Stskeepswhile council should have helped to prepare for the rush that will happen with the new influx of users and developers. but nothing was done.17:35
kurosuwhile I'm at it, is there a nicer API for vibrating than DBUS one, shown in ?17:35
Stskeepsjust like we weren't prepared for the in rush of new users on tmo.17:35
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo17:36
*** calvaris has joined #maemo17:36
lcukbut then you have council members like Attila, digging in and working together between developers on the community and folks at other sides to actually improve things17:36
lcukto fix real problems17:36
lcuklike the qt compatability in extras17:36
Stskeepsyes, but do you need a council for someone to organise things?17:36
lcukno, but it obviously helped to allow communication17:36
Stskeepsin practice it has been the well-prepared proposals by organising individuals that has gotten somewhere.17:37
Stskeepsworst part is some people's extreme tunnel vision.17:38
GAN900Stskeeps, prepare how?17:38
GAN900Stskeeps, is being slowly mothballed.17:38
crashanddiethe council didn't help anything with the qt-dependancy screw-up17:38
GAN900And we don't really have anybody's ear with MeeGo.17:38
crashanddieattila did it because he wanted to do it, not because he was a council member17:38
*** mardy has quit IRC17:39
lcukcrashanddie, of course17:39
crashanddieGAN900: who was the council's main contact? Quim?17:39
*** mardy has joined #maemo17:40
crashanddieGAN900: who know that he's moved to the US is a no-go anymore I guess? Because he doesn't have direct contact with the local people in HEL?17:40
infobotcrashanddie meant: GAN900: who now that he's moved to the US is a no-go anymore I guess? Because he doesn't have direct contact with the local people in HEL?17:40
GAN900Personally, we tried to buckle down and get working on stuff, but met with a brick wall17:40
GAN900Then we said "OK, how can we get ready for this changeover now that we know Nokia is dropping the N900."17:41
StskeepsGAN900: well, let's start with texrat's meego greeeters. reggie with the forums and structure. dneary with knowledge of wikis and community structure and challenges. the mer guys going into various parts of system development in meego. x-fade with the experience in extras handling. heck, if jeremiah had stayed on, packaging help. andre with his knowledge of bugzilla, testers from test squad getting involved in MeeGo QA.17:41
GAN900And so we held a brainstorm, got a bunch of tasks together17:41
lcuktexrats maemo greeters *17:41
GAN900and--Tada!--no more budget!17:41
crashanddiepackaging help?17:42
GAN900Stskeeps, jeremiah's position got cut.17:42
crashanddieI thought jeremiah was a debmaster, not rpmmaster17:42
Stskeepscrashanddie: he does both, but hey :P17:42
dnearycrashanddie, Our hierarchical superior is Tero Kojo17:42
*** n900evil has joined #maemo17:42
dnearycrashanddie, He's my project manager17:42
crashanddiesorry, I don't see the link, I must've missed something17:42
dnearycrashanddie, So the council should be letting him know if I'm not doing what they need from me17:42
GAN900Stskeeps, and my response was addressing your complaint about the council not preparing, not about the individuals.17:43
crashanddiedneary: we're not criticising anything the paid contributors have done17:43
dnearyGAN900, Actually, Jeremiah decided to leave, and the budget got reallocated17:43
crashanddiedneary: I don't think anyone was talking about that17:43
dneary(slightly different)17:43
GAN900dneary, true enough17:43
GAN900(brevity of typing)17:43
dnearycrashanddie, I'm just pointing out that Tero could be a main contact17:43
StskeepsGAN900: there was ample room for possibilities, even still is. could have easily taken the lead on many things.17:43
crashanddieah, ok17:43
Stskeepsbut anyway17:43
*** ali1234 has left #maemo17:44
Stskeepsit's weekend and i have conference papers to read.17:44
Stskeepswell, sessions17:44
GAN900So, council didn't lead at all, right.17:44
*** Venemo has joined #maemo17:44
dnearyActually, at this point I'd do an OpenSolaris governing board on it, and ask that someone officially replace Quim as the Maemo community liaison in Nokia17:44
crashanddieI don't think the council could've ever led anything, and it wasn't the point17:44
Venemogood afternoon everyone17:44
crashanddiethe council, IMO was there to talk to Nokia based on what the community was thinking17:45
dnearyGAN900, And there's still some budget17:45
dnearyI'm 1/4 time Maemo for the next 4 months17:45
crashanddieand try as they might, they never got any answers17:45
dnearyGAN900, And there's Niels, and Nemein still has some infrastructure budget17:45
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo17:45
GAN900dneary, if by some, you mean enough to keep the lights (mostly) on. :P17:46
crashanddieit's like talking to an Alzheimer granny. "How are you today" "Oooh, my little boys, they were so nice". At some point, the council had no choice but become the PR spokesperson for Nokia.17:46
*** shamus has quit IRC17:46
dnearyGAN900, I need to set myself an agenda for the next few months...17:46
crashanddieThat's how I saw things change17:46
*** shamus has joined #maemo17:46
dnearyAnd the council should definitely bring back a monthly staff meeting17:46
dnearywe're missing those now17:47
dnearyBut don't expect any Nokia people to be there17:47
* lcuk still wants to make a maemo app management doofer for desktop -> n900 but it requires a whole lot of coordination 17:47
dneary(although they may be anyway)17:47
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo17:47
crashanddielcuk: maemo app management doofer?17:47
lcuk(as raised at the last meeting)17:47
crashanddiewhat's a doofer?17:47
drizztbsdif someome wants the kakaroto's ps3 hack I mirrored it here =>
crashanddieI can't remember what a doofer is...17:48
lcukcrashanddie, desktop/website side application selection and then pushing to install those selections onto the device17:48
crashanddielcuk: interesting17:48
lcukso you deal with the apps on your device from your big computer17:48
dnearyAnyway - got a couple of things on the TODO list to get done today17:48
lcukwithout faffing with ham17:48
crashanddieI'm done for the week17:49
*** rosseaux has joined #maemo17:49
crashanddieI just checked the last thing on my list17:49
* crashanddie fires up starcraft 217:49
dnearyAnyone from the council care to call a monthly Maemo team meeting for next Tuesday, preferably before people have left for the weekend, please?17:49
lcuk* nominate for council17:49
crashanddiedneary: people have left for the weekend17:49
crashanddieat least, everyone in my company has17:49
FIQ|n900interesting, apache seems to be on repos for os2008, but not @ n90017:50
dnearycrashanddie, Ah - you're in Belgium aren't you?17:50
crashanddiePerpignan, France.17:50
FIQ|n900have libs changed a lot or would it be possible to install @n900?17:50
lcukFIQ|n900, if it builds, resubmit to fremantle queue17:50
*** mardi has joined #maemo17:50
*** vzq has quit IRC17:51
lcukFIQ|n900, many diablo compatible apps should build without issue technically17:51
*** vzq has joined #maemo17:51
lcukcertainly backend ones at least17:51
crashanddiedneary: dude, how could you forget I lived in France :( You actually got me a discussion with a Canonical guy... :(17:51
*** merlin_phone has joined #maemo17:52
*** willer_ has joined #maemo17:53
*** BCMM has joined #maemo17:53
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC17:54
*** n900evil has quit IRC17:54
dnearycrashanddie, Ah, right17:55
dnearyNo wonder then17:55
dnearyThe French are lazy buggers17:55
dnearyThe 35 hour week indeed17:55
*** th3_4zarado has joined #maemo17:55
dneary(they do a 35 hour week *and* get RTTs)17:55
GAN900Quim doesn't work on Maemo at all anymore17:55
GAN900So, yeah, having a new contact would be a good idea17:56
Stskeepsthat's not true, he deals with the licensing queue17:56
GAN900But what does Nokia care about Maemo these days.17:56
Stskeepsand is still seen around maemo.og17:56
GAN900Stskeeps, only in the vaguest sort of way.17:56
Stskeepswell, the problem with quim's work is that you only see the top of the iceberg17:57
*** hcm_ has joined #maemo17:57
*** ckandeler has quit IRC17:57
*** LJL has joined #maemo17:57
GAN900Yes, because I wouldn't know anything about facilitation.17:57
VenemoStskeeps: the problem with Quim's work is that there is no visible result for us to see17:57
kerioSpeedEvil: wait, what?17:57
Stskeepsand that failures are more visible than progress that you think might just come naturally.17:58
kerio"advance in technology" can break RSA?17:58
VenemoStskeeps: but I don't blame him17:58
kerioP!=NP, remember17:58
StskeepsVenemo: it's in a lot of maemo things and decisions you don't see cos it just comes from Nokia.17:58
Venemokerio: yes17:58
VenemoStskeeps: yes, I know17:58
*** neeraj has joined #maemo17:58
VenemoStskeeps: that I why I said it is not visible as his work17:58
GAN900Stskeeps, point being, his focus is (justifiably) not on Maemo.17:59
GAN900Given that Nokia's basically left us hanging17:59
GAN900having a new contact person seems worthwhile.18:00
*** amigadave has quit IRC18:00
*** hcm has quit IRC18:00
neerajCan any body tell me how can I change the title of Xephyr window.18:00
VenemoGAN900: I don't think we will have one18:01
GAN900Venemo, I don't think so, either.18:01
*** akeripper_ has joined #maemo18:01
VenemoGAN900, Stskeeps: and about the licensing changes, all of them were dismissed with ridiculous excuses18:02
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC18:02
*** neeraj_ has joined #maemo18:02
GAN900Venemo, that's how Nokia operates.18:02
kerioVenemo: yes what?18:02
GAN900It still boggles my mind that Peter claims they're listening.18:02
*** reggna_ has joined #maemo18:02
*** Stskeeps has left #maemo18:02
*** Free_maN has quit IRC18:03
GAN900But perhaps they are and they're just choosing to do the opposite18:03
*** ayanes has quit IRC18:03
tobis87kerio: a quantum computer could break rsa easily, "they" even search for people already
*** hwoarang_ has joined #maemo18:04
*** hwoarang_ has joined #maemo18:04
Venemokerio: (4:58:06 PM) kerio: "advance in technology" can break RSA? ----> Yes, it can.18:04
*** akeripper has quit IRC18:04
*** polymar_ has joined #maemo18:04
lcukI know Nokia are listening and acting.18:04
kerioquantum computers *have a chance* of breaking RSA18:04
*** ShadowJK_ has joined #maemo18:04
*** hkivela_ has joined #maemo18:04
*** grinseka1ze has joined #maemo18:04
Venemolcuk: what are you referring to?18:04
lcukand GAN900 if you feel they  aren't then perhaps you should try to find a way to do so.18:05
*** ZZzzZzzz has quit IRC18:05
*** polymar has quit IRC18:05
*** tekonivel has quit IRC18:05
*** hwoarang has quit IRC18:05
*** kahless has quit IRC18:05
*** habmala has quit IRC18:05
*** grinsekatze has quit IRC18:05
*** ShadowJK has quit IRC18:05
*** reggna has quit IRC18:05
*** hkivela has quit IRC18:05
*** habmala has joined #maemo18:05
*** mardy has quit IRC18:05
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC18:05
*** `0660 has quit IRC18:05
*** klasu__ has quit IRC18:05
*** ZogG has quit IRC18:05
*** kabtoffe has quit IRC18:05
*** yuizy has quit IRC18:05
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo18:05
*** kabtoffe has joined #maemo18:05
tobis87kerio: Investigators should presuppose the existence of a fully functional quantum computer and consider what algorithmic tasks are particularly well suited to such a machine.18:05
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo18:05
*** ZogG has joined #maemo18:05
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo18:05
*** neeraj has quit IRC18:06
tobis87presuppose the existence of a fully functional quantum computer <- "They" already have one :-D18:06
lcukGAN900, contact some of the principle Nokia maemo contributors18:06
*** kahless has joined #maemo18:06
*** neeraj_ is now known as neeraj18:06
Venemolcuk: are you saying this out of belief, or you know something?18:06
keriotobis87: sure18:06
*** polymar_ has quit IRC18:06
Venemokerio: although there is an encryption algorythm that quantum comupers can't break (yet)18:07
tobis87yes, this algorithm from seventies:
*** ZZzzZzzz has joined #maemo18:08
*** th3_4zarado has quit IRC18:09
*** tackat has quit IRC18:09
GAN900lcuk, I've been in communication with Peter.18:10
GAN900lcuk, as with Quim, much of what I do isn't immediately visible.18:10
*** zs has quit IRC18:11
*** frikinz has left #maemo18:11
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC18:12
*** noaXess has left #maemo18:13
*** delirus has joined #maemo18:13
lcukGAN900, when Nokia created Maemo many of its hackers worked outside their jobs to help build and improve it.  We have a strong wide reaching vibrant set of applications which show that the principles original brought out 5 years ago work.  this was done alongside existing activities and was the "hacker spirit" within Nokia18:13
lcukjust because we have Meego now does not mean the same spirit does not exist, hell if you think pressure from Meego is bad, imagine how hard it must have been at first against Symbian18:14
VenemoGAN900: by Peter, you mean Peter Schneider?18:15
lcukGAN900, how many people were involved in the original HackerEdition made for the 770?18:15
* lcuk is eternally amused at the new use cases Maemo has every day18:16
lcukas someone releases an app that sat dormant for a while or some research project emerges18:17
*** n900evil has joined #maemo18:17
*** kamui__ has joined #maemo18:17
GAN900lcuk, except here we are, 5 years later, we don't have a viable product, existing customers and contributors have been jetisoned, once again, Maemo contributors are the redhaired stepchildren in MeeGo and Nokia still doesn't "get" it.18:18
*** crashanddie has quit IRC18:18
GAN900lcuk, things exist in shades of gray.18:18
GAN900Venemo, yes.18:18
GAN900lcuk, we don't know, as it was an over-the-wall binary image drop done by contractors.18:19
*** LJL is now known as LjL18:20
VenemoGAN900: and what does he say?18:21
*** shinkamui has quit IRC18:21
*** n900evil has quit IRC18:22
lcukGAN900, hasn't nokia devivered on the product?  a hacker friendly mobile platform? "Maemo - code in your hands" wasn't it?  We have in excess of 25million app downloads and over 5000 community applications so far - the downloads increased over 20% this month alone and will continue to increase as the catalog improves18:22
lcukits so hacker friendly even nokia are using it to build on it18:23
*** reggna_ is now known as reggna18:24
*** neeraj_ has joined #maemo18:25
Venemolcuk: agreed18:26
Venemolcuk: what do you mean by "nokia are using to build on it"?18:26
lcukwell Venemo meego is so open to gain possibility of community contributors they need a device to work from18:27
*** neeraj has quit IRC18:27
Venemolcuk: yes18:27
*** neeraj_ is now known as neeraj18:27
lcukVenemo, unlike a desktop linux the community cannot hack really on hardware in their home18:28
lcuk(which leads to the meego netbook farse, but thats another topic)18:28
Venemolcuk: the only minor problem is that the "device to work from" doesn't "officially" support the very os they are working on18:28
*** zeq has quit IRC18:28
GAN900lcuk, all excellent talking points18:29
GAN900Which ignore many of the negative aspects of Nokia and the platform.18:30
GAN900lcuk, look around, most of the core contributors have burnt out and moved on.18:30
VenemoGAN900, lcuk: see qwerty12 for an example18:31
ZogGMohammadAG, ping18:31
MNZGAN900, it's the same for a huge number of open source projects... people simply move on to other stuff18:31
MNZand new people roll in18:31
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo18:32
*** ckandeler has joined #maemo18:32
lcukGAN900, I stopped playing Portal18:32
lcukbut that doesnt mean the game stopped being enjoyed by others18:32
fnordianslip"so long and thanks for all the fish", but in reverse?18:33
lcukmnz is right18:33
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC18:33
microlithlcuk: yes, but when a project is so badly mismanaged that dedicated users like querty12 blow up and attack the people trying to support it, something is seriously f*cked18:33
lcukmicrolith, to be fair, people go postal in the best of jobs18:34
microlithyes, but maemo is extraordinarily badly managed18:34
*** guardian has quit IRC18:34
microlithas is Nokia's customer relations, which are virtually non-existent18:35
*** lmoura_ has joined #maemo18:35
lcukthen how do we deal with that actively18:35
microlithwell we can't, so long as Nokia has a stick up their ass18:35
*** jpe has quit IRC18:36
*** tomast has quit IRC18:36
rmrfchikis there way to set up bluetooth network between linux box and n900? (PAN, if I remember correctly)18:36
*** chenca has quit IRC18:36
lcukrmrfchik, there should be, but IDK personally18:37
lcukbut the wiki does18:37
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo18:37
rmrfchikoh. should I check it first. shame18:37
*** igagis has joined #maemo18:38
*** marciom has quit IRC18:38
*** lmoura__ has quit IRC18:38
*** merlin_phone has quit IRC18:38
*** dailylinux has joined #maemo18:38
*** hwoarang_ is now known as hwoarang18:39
lioridoes Nokia have any competition in "hacker-friendly" handset?18:39
Venemoliori: no, I don't think so18:39
*** monoceros has joined #maemo18:40
rmrfchiklong ago sharp zaurus FTW18:40
Venemoliori: but many people mistake Android for that18:40
lioriso no wonders it goes this way18:40
rmrfchikI owned 860SL. very nice18:40
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC18:41
*** celesteh has joined #maemo18:41
GAN900MNZ, indeed it is.18:41
lcukisn't Canola due for an n900 release soon by the way?  Google Summer of code is over18:42
lcukand it was one of the projects18:42
GAN900MNZ, however when it's the overwhelming majority of your core that's either walked out in discussed or is burning out as we speak, well, I don't consider that optimal.18:42
GAN900Especially when it all comes down to things easily in Nokia's power to fix.18:42
*** carloscesa has joined #maemo18:42
*** marciom has joined #maemo18:43
MNZI frankly have no background on what has happened, it has been little over 2 weeks for me with the community18:43
*** panaggio has joined #maemo18:43
VenemoGAN900: 100% agreed18:44
*** retro|cz has quit IRC18:45
lcukGAN900, the "overwhelming majority of your core" are paid people assigned to tasks.  dneary just came in and said there are key people available with maemo related budgets - what specifically do you feel needs doing18:46
*** zeq has joined #maemo18:46
etrunkolcuk: yeah, it is18:47
lcuk:D etrunko awesome18:47
etrunkothe big problem is packaging all deps18:47
etrunkoas usua18:47
lcukthats the problem everywhere etrunko18:47
*** silbo has joined #maemo18:47
Venemolcuk: really?18:47
lcukVenemo, read scrollback18:47
lcukhe wanted to assign a meeting next week for it18:47
Venemolcuk: this is good news, isn't it?18:48
GAN900lcuk, I'm talking about community people.18:48
GAN900lcuk, paid people all seem to be on a steady diet of Kool-Aid.18:49
MNZslightly unrelated, but do we have a general plan or roadmap for maemo? or is it just left to go where ever the wind takes it?18:49
*** FredrIQ|n900 has joined #maemo18:49
GAN900MNZ, yeah, there's a lot of unfun history getting us here today.18:49
DocScrutinizerlcuk: does that mean there's another forum/opportunity to discuss issues like opening stuff, delivering much asked for functionality augments, etc?18:50
GAN900lcuk, I'd like to see the ideas from the brainstorm implemented.18:50
*** MadViking has joined #maemo18:50
lcukGAN900, then please champion them and stop whining - go and dig through and find simple effective things that *are* achievable18:50
GAN900lcuk, but Neimen is in maintenance mode, X-Fade is keeping things afloat and that's about the extent of it.18:51
VenemoMNZ: Maemo will go where the wind goes, yes18:51
*** n900evil has joined #maemo18:51
lcukmnz, if GAN900 has his way maemo is already dead.18:51
*** davyg has joined #maemo18:51
GAN900Not exactly a lot of hands to prep for doing Nokia's job18:51
lcukbut that fate has been hanging on the BSD* for many years18:51
Venemolcuk: so, you're going to have a meeting about this, right?18:52
lcukwell i wasnt going to organise it, dneary is better at that sort of thing ;)18:52
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC18:52
dnearylcuk, You called?18:52
dnearyAsk not for whom the bell tolls18:53
*** chenca has joined #maemo18:53
lcukhey dneary you mentioned earlier about a meeting18:53
Venemolcuk: to your question, "what you feel needs doing", just read TMO18:53
MNZI always thought maemo was just on life-support until we got to meego, but then I looked at all the activity and I thought maybe the community want to take this further?18:53
lcukperhaps reading the scrollback since you left might be better18:53
dnearyI'd really like the community council to call a maemo staff + community meeting for September to make sure everyone has some TODO items18:53
Venemolcuk: sorry, I have no scrollback. Although I've read everything since I'm here18:54
lcukmnz, it might be, but that doesn't mean we cannot do things ourselves and within the available boundaries18:54
lcukdneary, that sounds reasonable18:54
Venemolcuk: anyways, I agree with Stskeeps on the longer term. We're better off having a workable MeeGo port than patching Maemo 518:54
lcuki dont object in the slightest Venemo18:55
DocScrutinizerVenemo: there's chanlog, see /topic18:55
VenemoDocScrutinizer: ah, thanks. okay18:55
lcukmeego is indeed exceptional and much wider in scope since it will expand fully and blossom outside our N series devices18:55
MNZBut now I'm slightly confused. Do the community generally want maemo to live on or just want maemo *applications* to live on, so a compatability layer on meego would suffice?18:56
lcukbut hopefully the core of Maemo can be in amongst that18:56
VenemoMNZ: the community is fragmented about the question18:56
GAN900lcuk, tried, nobody reports, nobody communications, and there's no budget.18:56
lcukGAN900, you just got told there is budget18:56
GAN900lcuk, and you're not going to drum up support for a platform Nokia killed off.18:56
dnearyMNZ, Who is the community?18:56
lcukup there ^18:57
GAN900lcuk, depends on your definition.18:57
Venemolcuk: anyways, what is the point of working on Maemo, if we will have MeeGo soon enough?18:57
dnearyMNZ: Have you ever done any vector maths?18:57
lcukGAN900, hence me saying simple practical things18:57
lcukVenemo, people still use their Nokia 77018:57
MNZdneary, by community I meant the user/hackerbase. I thought that was obvious. And vector math, only a bit in high school18:57
dnearyMNZ, So - think of the community as a bunch of vectors.18:58
Venemolcuk: yes.18:58
DocScrutinizerVenemo: "soon enough" - hmm18:58
MNZdneary, ah ok, got where you are going with this....18:58
Venemolcuk: I was referring to the "MeeGo for the N900" project18:58
dnearyEach individual has a certain amount of influence (vector length) and a general direction he'd like to see the project take (direction)18:58
VenemoDocScrutinizer: some people claim october18:58
dnearyNow - all the vectors point in different directions.18:59
DocScrutinizerthat's a fake though - it's called meego but it's harmattan aiui18:59
Venemodneary: indeed18:59
*** n900evil has quit IRC18:59
dnearySome converge - there's a bunch of vectors pointing generally in the direction "Fuck Nokia - let them open up Maemo 5 & we'll do it ourselves"18:59
*** n900evil has joined #maemo18:59
dnearyAnd there's a bunch of vectors pointing towards "Maemo is the mpast, MeeGo is more open than Maemo ever was, we should get behind that"19:00
dnearyNow - what happens when you add all the vectors?19:00
MNZA resultant19:00
MNZand that's what I was asking about19:00
VenemoDocScrutinizer: well, MeeGo base OS and middleware is already stable, right? And Harmattan will have the same MeeGo Touch UI... so, with the latter completing in October, we should have a fully operational MeeGo, right?19:00
lcukyou get maemo apps running on non nokia hardware19:00
*** hrw is now known as hrw|gone19:00
VenemoDocScrutinizer: also, Stskeeps says that N900 driver support is already there in MeeGo19:01
pupnik_well said lcuk19:01
*** zeq has quit IRC19:01
dnearyMNZ, In general, when you add a bunch of vectors that point in different directions, the resultant doesn't have a very big amplitude19:01
lcukdneary, i above all others know the problem of backwards compatability, and I have sat here for long enough to know how much it will matter to people.19:01
* n900evil is going for a random walk.19:01
lioridneary: in this case I'd say we have so many dimemsions the vectors will not cancel out19:01
dnearyliori, My point exactly19:02
DocScrutinizerVenemo: stskeeps just bragged with first ever semi-working call on meego. So "MeeGo base OS and middleware is already stable"?? Nooooooway19:02
lcukpupnik_, does sdl work on meego?19:03
pupnik_hurr dunurr19:03
VenemoDocScrutinizer: well, 1.0 was stable and it was out in march, and they said that they will have 1.1 stable in october, whatever19:03
pupnik_i can't bring myself to sacrifice my laptop for it19:04
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC19:04
dnearyMNZ, To put it another way, asking "what does the community want?" at this point is meaningless19:07
VenemoMNZ: dneary is right about this19:07
lcukmnz, another way: bring up clear strong arguments and get people behind you and make it happen19:08
GAN900In general, I think the community wants Nokia to stop jerking them around.19:08
dnearyGAN900, I disagree19:08
Venemolcuk: well said19:08
*** celesteh has quit IRC19:08
VenemoGAN900: indeed.19:08
dnearyGAN900, I think some of the community is happy with the direction Nokia is taking, and are happy to follow them19:08
* lcuk is happy with meego19:08
lcukit will solve a lot of the noise people made over the years19:09
*** n900evil has quit IRC19:09
GAN900dneary, hey, about a hundred people voted for me, so I can speak for them at least. :P19:10
dnearyGAN900, W00t 100/16000 (depending on how you count)19:10
GAN900dneary, I think most people would agree that dropping support for N900 owners wasn't an ideal decision.19:11
*** yannux has quit IRC19:11
Venemolcuk: agreed19:11
MNZI have another question though, the vectors you mentioned dneary, I would think they come in cluster pointing in a general direction each. I would argue that people who simply think maemo is on life support (or other similar direction) can be safely removed from the equation19:11
DocScrutinizerdneary: how ill you count the Nokia-cheering sheep? and how many do you claim there are?19:11
GAN900And demoing Flash 10, saying q1 then never another peep probably wasn't ideal, either.19:11
dnearyMNZ, Perhaps19:12
VenemoGAN900: agreed19:12
dnearyDocScrutinizerWell, vectors have a length19:12
dnearyAnd those vectors are short19:12
MNZthe rest of the 'community', no matter what their directions on where to take maemo, want _improvement_, and I would take that as a very vague, very general direction which can be agreed upon by a majority that actually matter19:12
dnearyGAN900, Nokia are still going to continue support for N900 owners for a couple of years, but not spend any money supporting app developers for N90019:13
MNZso this brings us back to: Where's the roadmap!19:13
*** n900evil has joined #maemo19:13
GAN900Nor dropping N900 support then slashing the budget and eliminating the position best placed to ensure the success of their Harmattan Hacker Edition answer probably wasn't good either.19:14
GAN900dneary, define "support"19:15
dnearyGAN900, Provide occasional OS updates for19:15
dnearyTo fix bugs19:15
GAN900"We'll take your calls and help you buy an N9"19:15
pexibetter to focus resources for meego&intel collaboration19:15
GAN900dneary, like the N8x0s? :)19:15
dnearyGAN900, No19:15
dnearyN900 is a phone19:15
dnearySo more like the N82 or something like that19:16
*** zap has quit IRC19:16
DocScrutinizerdneary: (no support for app devels) which is utterly insane, given the loudmouthedly claimed pushbutton app compatibility from maemo to meego19:16
GAN900Because Nokia still "supported" Diablo through this year.19:16
GAN900dneary, but nothing vaguely resembling their competitors' definitions.19:16
GAN900DocScrutinizer, talk about clueless realit-detatchment.19:17
MohammadAG51doesn't the iPhone 2G still get updates?19:17
VenemoGAN900: anyways, Nokia's support is still superior to Samsung's19:17
Venemotake as an example, the i891019:17
*** thopiekar has quit IRC19:17
GAN900Venemo, Samsung doesn't ship a Linux distro.19:17
VenemoGAN900: yes. what I meant, they support their products much less19:18
*** n900evil has quit IRC19:18
*** lbt_ has quit IRC19:18
GAN900MohammadAG51, did through 3.x.19:19
GAN900and the 3G (N8x0 equivalent) is still current19:19
GAN900The N900 didn't even get a year.19:19
VenemoGAN900: the i8910 didn't get half a year19:20
*** jukey has quit IRC19:20
VenemoGAN900: so Nokia is not the worst19:20
VenemoGAN900: but, I agree with your point19:20
DocScrutinizerVenemo: that's really apples and err, submarines19:20
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC19:20
lcukheh, do you think AD-N770 was an active Nokia 770 user?19:21
GAN900And Apple's software isn't still a big buggy pile of uselessness.19:21
GAN900Venemo, competitors are Apple and Google.19:21
GAN900Both of which seem to be doing an excellent job of providing reasonable support19:22
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC19:22
VenemoGAN900: hm. well, maybe19:22
*** zogg_ has joined #maemo19:22
MohammadAG51Nokia has Symbian and maemo19:23
VenemoGAN900: but why just these two?19:23
*** n900evil has joined #maemo19:23
*** ZogG has quit IRC19:24
*** zogg_ is now known as ZogG19:24
*** silbo has quit IRC19:24
GAN900Venemo, only people shipping similar products.19:24
*** zeq has joined #maemo19:26
VenemoGAN900: so, Samsung's not?19:27
DocScrutinizerwell, for me it feels like Nokia did (A, B) for maemo, now doing (a) for meego and telling "dear devels, why wait for C on maemo? We got shining meego in a short while and there will be C+" (some fine day)19:28
lcukGAN900, for the longest time you were against the phone aspect of maemo, rallying behind it being a tablet and unique.  the people that dreamed up an open source eco system would be proud now. and meego is a new revisioning of that to beat the newcomers, but it does not negate from just how awesome and far maemo has gotten.19:28
*** jacktheripper has joined #maemo19:28
GAN900lcuk, in 5 years?19:28
GAN900Not very19:28
GAN900Nokia went from pioneering the market to allowing its competitors to dominate and redefine it.19:29
*** Stu88s has left #maemo19:29
*** timoph|away is now known as timoph19:29
jacekowskiwell, only htc and apple19:30
*** arno0ob has quit IRC19:30
*** retro|cz has joined #maemo19:31
jacekowskinobody else has anything that would compete with nokia phones19:31
*** neeraj_ has joined #maemo19:31
*** mgedmin has quit IRC19:32
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo19:32
Venemoanyways, despite all the pessimism going on here, I still think that Maemo 5 is one of the best OSes on the market19:32
lcukhurrah \o/19:33
Venemoit has its weaknesses, but nothing is perfect19:33
*** neeraj has quit IRC19:33
lcukthat sounds like an excellent point to make a break for the weekend19:33
*** neeraj_ is now known as neeraj19:34
GAN900Venemo, I agree.19:34
GAN900Venemo, which is why it frustrates me so when Nokia sabatoges it constantly.19:35
GAN900and Maemo takes a backseat to Moblin in MeeGo.19:35
timophmoblin? that's only for netbooks19:36
VenemoGAN900: still, I don't think MeeGo would be any worse than Maemo19:36
GAN900timoph, much like MeeGo right now.19:36
GAN900Venemo, Intel's worse than Nokia, amazingly.19:36
timophI have it running on my N900 :)19:36
VenemoGAN900: worse? why?19:36
GAN900Venemo, because they deal with OEMs19:37
*** FredrIQ|n900 has quit IRC19:37
*** eocanha has quit IRC19:37
GAN900At least Nokia has some experience dealing with people.19:37
VenemoGAN900: well, at least they are not alone now19:38
*** marcels has joined #maemo19:38
*** kurosu has quit IRC19:38
VenemoGAN900: some people have objections against rpm packaging19:38
VenemoGAN900: but apart from that, it won't be that much different19:38
VenemoGAN900: if I'm wrong, please educate me19:39
tobis87you can also see it the other way around, maemo is the least worst of the android, maemo, apple ios... e.g. just to get root access on the other two19:39
tobis87and it runs the code natively and it is not programmed in c19:39
tobis87in c#19:39
MNZtobis87, less worse from a hacker perspective..... an app programmer or an end user: I'm not entirely sure19:40
tobis87ah, sorry was it object-c (apple ios)19:40
kerioandroid apps are java :<19:41
kerioaren't they?19:41
timophGAN900: does this look like moblin? ->
kerioobjc is still compiled at least19:42
timophdoesn't look like it to me19:42
*** neeraj has quit IRC19:43
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC19:43
pupnik_sandboxes are for kids :P19:44
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo19:45
tobis87kerio:  Android language
keriothat's the os19:45
Venemoandroid is bloatware from Google19:45
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC19:45
Venemoits sole purpose was to kill Windows Mobile19:46
jacekowskiand it sends your brain to google19:46
kerioandroid is the iOS for poor people19:46
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo19:46
keriothe only difference between iOS and Android is the kernel and the corporation behind it19:46
Venemojacekowski: yes!19:46
Venemokerio: and the level of (supposed) openness19:47
GAN900timoph, organizationally speaking.19:47
merlin1991sry for the join spam, I failed closing xchat properly when I changed some stuff19:47
kerionah, rooting vs jailbreaking is the same19:47
Venemokerio: yes.19:47
Venemokerio: but you can download (some of) android's souce, but not ios's.19:47
Venemokerio: with your other points I agree19:48
kerioyou can download darwin19:48
kerioit's the kernel19:48
keriowrong window19:48
tobis87i still don't understand, what they had smoked to come up with the idea of running the apps in Java, ok some apps already did run in Java but mostly these which you could buy. The others did run natively in Symbian, right?19:49
Venemotobis87: what?19:49
*** C-S-B has quit IRC19:49
*** florian has quit IRC19:50
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC19:50
tobis87I mean, did the base system run native in symbian? I thought it did, not as bytecode.19:51
*** dailylinux has quit IRC19:52
Venemotobis87: if that is what you're curious about, Symbian applications are native, yes19:53
*** jabis has joined #maemo19:53
Venemotobis87: Symbian C++ compiles to native code19:54
*** geaaru has quit IRC19:55
*** n900evil has quit IRC19:56
*** sergio__ has quit IRC19:58
* mgedmin played with his sister's Android phone and now wants a port of Gem Miner to Maemo19:59
MNZmgedmin, is it open source :D ?20:01
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo20:01
mgedminprobably not, given that it has a free(ware?) version and a commercial version20:01
*** sri_ has joined #maemo20:02
*** celesteh has joined #maemo20:03
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC20:04
RST38hmgedmin: Rocks & Diamonds is in the repos.20:06
mgedmindifferent game, though20:07
tobis87Ok, but why did Google choose to run the whole in java? Only, because it is easier to deploy programs on multiple devices? Arm elf should be flexible enough, the programs only need to get recompiled with a diffrent toolchain. And it should be faster, are there any benchmarks availible native vs bytecode in Dalvik.20:08
GAN900Easy deployment, easier sandboxing and control20:09
*** jacktheripper has quit IRC20:09
GAN900Lot of devs know it20:09
mgedminminimizing hardware deps could also be part of it, I suppose20:09
mgedminthere are many variations of ARM20:09
Venemotobis87: managed-code apps are not necessarily slower20:09
*** mtnbkr has quit IRC20:10
*** Mousey has joined #maemo20:11
*** Mousey is now known as NotAtPAXMousey20:12
*** teilzeitstudent has joined #maemo20:12
jacekowskiwell dalvik is slower20:15
jacekowskibut that's implementation fail as well20:15
jacekowskiand there is difference between what .net is doing and what java/dalvik is doing20:15 code is not a bytecode20:16
jacekowskiit's intermediate bytecode20:16
*** genewitch has joined #maemo20:16
jacekowskithat gets compiled/JITed whan started20:16
jacekowskiwith knowledge of local platform20:16
jacekowskiit's sort of like half compiled code20:16
mgedminin my dictionary there's no "bytecode" that isn't intermediate20:16
mgedminwere you drawing a distinction between AOT/JIT and direct bytecode interpretation?20:17
jacekowskikind of20:18
jacekowskibut there are different kind of JITs20:18
Venemojacekowski: in .NET, source code is compiled to IL. Then IL gets JITted to machine code.20:18
*** mirr0r has quit IRC20:18
*** mirr0r has joined #maemo20:19
jacekowskibut JIT compiler has knowledge about local system20:19
jacekowskiso it can apply optimisations that would be impossible to apply with normal application20:19
jacekowskiwhile java was designed to run on VM20:19
jacekowskiand JIT capabilities were added later20:19
Venemojacekowski: indeed20:19
Venemojacekowski: the .NET CLR optimizes code for the platform it runs on20:20
*** millenomi has joined #maemo20:20
jacekowskiand java jit just slower20:20
Venemojacekowski: yes20:21
Venemojacekowski: and java doesn't jit all the time20:21
tobis87I think the main problem if we try to get Maemo usable for normal users, is that we have to go in the direction in which Android goes. It is good for companies to not have to deal with overclockers and people who mess up their partition table... And most people are also happy, because they don't have to reflash their device.20:21
tobis87 I think you can only have an os which is either user friendly or hacker friendly. Ubuntu for example becomes everytime more userfriendly, but for me unfriendly (compiz, right side buttons, gimp, etc...)20:21
Venemojacekowski: java JITs some code, and interprets some others20:21
Venemotobis87: well, I dunno about Ubuntu, but I don't think the two things contradict each other20:22
jacekowskiwell, every app should have it's own small container20:22
jacekowskiso it can't affect anything else20:22
jacekowskiand well it does't contradict each other20:22
*** n900evil has joined #maemo20:23
tobis87yes, you can disable all this stuff, but why not choose a less uber-user-friendly distro first20:23
jacekowskifor lulz20:23
mgedminI disagree that user-friendliness must imply hacker-hostility20:23
jacekowskimgedmin: i disagree with you disagreeing20:23
Venemomgedmin: agreed.20:23
jacekowskiall these automated stuff20:23
mgedminooh, you pulling double negatives on me, jacekowski?20:24
jacekowskimakes non automated stuff complicated20:24
Venemoanyone else watching SGU?20:24
RST38hmgedmin: Weirdly enough, Rocks&Diamonds is many games at once, they used just about everything there20:24
* jacekowski 20:24
RST38hVenemo: Has it started anew?20:24
mgedminRST38h, I looked at the screenshots; all those different games are really different variations of the same game20:24
VenemoRST38h: season 2 will come in the end of september20:25
jacekowskiRST38h: not yet20:25
jacekowski28th of september20:25
* RST38h goes back to Ashes2Ashes20:25
Venemojacekowski: yes.20:25
*** tomast has joined #maemo20:25
jacekowskii'm watching eureka, warehouse 13 and hmm that's all at the moment20:25
RST38hmgedmin: Well, if you call Boulderdash, Supaflex, and Soukoban the same game...20:25
* Venemo is watching SGU 1x20 atm20:25
jacekowskiV is terminated isn't it?20:26
mgedminah, Sokoban is a bit different20:26
mgedminaren't Boulderdash and Supaplex the same?20:26
jacekowskinext season of doctor who will be next year20:26
mgedmincollect items while avoiding falling boulders20:26
jacekowskitorchwood is terminated iirc20:26
Venemowhat do you think about The Guild?20:26
*** johnsq has joined #maemo20:26
mgedminthe thing I liked about Gem Miner was that it had less puzzle solving and more exploration20:27
jacekowskilegend of the seeker is terminated as well20:27
*** DocScrutinizer is now known as DocPyrotizer20:27
*** mirr0r has quit IRC20:27
Venemojohnsq: hey20:28
*** nhdezoito has quit IRC20:28
*** mirr0r has joined #maemo20:28
*** nhdezoito has joined #maemo20:28
RST38hmgedmin: Ah20:29
mgedminit almost felt roguelike20:29
mgedminexcept as a side-scroller20:29
mgedminand without monsters20:29
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo20:30
RST38hmgedmin: Ah I see20:30
*** silbo has joined #maemo20:30
RST38hmgedmin: There is a few JRPGs that are close in function20:31
RST38hmgedmin: They will run on VGBA20:31
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo20:32
*** ppenz has quit IRC20:32
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC20:32
*** __a has quit IRC20:33
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo20:33
*** Muttley has quit IRC20:33
*** dneary has quit IRC20:33
MohammadAGPyQt or PyGTK?20:34
RST38hBut, better, just Qt, so that I do not have to install Python20:35
mgedminspeaking of PyQt, PyQt or PySide?20:36
pupnik_   cool idea: removable keyboard for phone20:36
* timoph prefers ncurses :)20:36
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo20:37
RST38hpupnik: Old story, see TI calculators20:37
RST38hAlso Sony remote controls and a few PC gaming keyboards20:37
*** jonne|reconnecte has joined #maemo20:37
*** jonne has quit IRC20:37
mgedmindidn't the Romans have a saying, something like "new is just well-forgotten old"20:38
mgedminthey probably had removable keyboards for their abacuses too20:38
*** soltys has joined #maemo20:39
RST38hRomans probably had mechanical computation engines20:39
RST38hIf that mechanism lifted from the sea floor any indication20:40
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC20:41
tank-mantransformer phone :)20:41
*** sri_ has left #maemo20:44
*** n900evil has quit IRC20:46
*** carloscesa has quit IRC20:47
*** zap has joined #maemo20:47
*** jpe has joined #maemo20:49
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo20:49
*** timoph is now known as timoph|away20:50
*** Wamanuz2 has quit IRC20:52
*** IcanCU has joined #maemo20:54
*** Wamanuz has joined #maemo20:55
*** IcanCU has quit IRC20:56
*** IcanCU has joined #maemo20:56
pupnik_RST38h: ok, new to me20:57
*** IcanCU has quit IRC20:58
*** IcanCU has joined #maemo20:58
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo21:01
*** chadi has joined #maemo21:01
*** chadi has joined #maemo21:01
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC21:02
chadiCan I remove all pics of my contacts at once? I'm asking this because I want to "Retreive" using Hermes to update the pics.21:02
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo21:02
merlin1991yeah you can21:03
*** apoi has quit IRC21:03
*** hurbu has joined #maemo21:03
merlin1991remove all files in /home/user/osso-abook/avatars/21:04
merlin1991that's what I would do21:04
merlin1991wait it's /home/user/.ossoabook/avatars/21:05
chadi.osso-abook :)21:05
merlin1991typo again :/21:05
chadido you use the same method to update the pics?21:06
*** tobis87 has left #maemo21:06
*** retro|cz has quit IRC21:06
merlin1991nope I never updated them, but that would by my first guess21:06
*** apoi has joined #maemo21:07
*** _berto_ has quit IRC21:07
chadishould I backup first, or no harm will happen anyway?21:07
merlin1991I would backup21:08
*** dailylinux has joined #maemo21:09
chadiThey're not gone21:09
chadianything I should restart?21:09
chadiI don't want to reboot the phone21:09
jacekowskialways backup21:09
chadiI backed up21:10
chadibut I was saying that the pics are still there21:10
jacekowskiyeah it's sqlite21:10
jacekowskiyou have to do some fancy queries to databse21:11
*** jonne|reconnecte has quit IRC21:11
*** sergio__ has joined #maemo21:11
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC21:11
chadiI have no idea at all how to do that21:11
merlin1991sqlite3 command in xterm21:11
jacekowskisqlite /home/user/.osssosomething/file/with/contacts.db21:12
jacekowskisqlite3 /home/user/.osssosomething/file/with/contacts.db21:12
jacekowskii don't remember structure of that file and i'm shitting on toilet at the moment21:12
jacekowskiso i can't help you21:12
jacekowskiwell, not now at least21:12
chadiso from what I understand, the pics are stored in the db, and then "backed up" every now and then in .osso-abook/avatars/ ?21:13
*** dos1 has quit IRC21:13
jacekowskii think it's just file name that's in db21:13
merlin1991sqlite3 /home/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db21:13
*** calvaris has quit IRC21:13
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo21:13
*** n900evil has joined #maemo21:14
*** jonne has joined #maemo21:15
chadioh well, I'm not familiar with sql queries21:16
Venemolcuk: ping21:18
lcukam in #liqbase21:19
luke-jrthere's a lcuk fan club now⁇21:21
*** Smily has joined #maemo21:22
MohammadAGalways been :P21:22
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo21:22
MohammadAGwhat PyQt apps are there?21:23
MohammadAGother than healthcheck21:23
Arkenoianyone got syncevolution really working with google?21:24
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC21:24
SpeedEvilAnyone got google voice working over SIP directly?21:25
SpeedEvilAll the howtos I found seem to imply you need a third party service.21:25
*** andax has joined #maemo21:26
luke-jrSpeedEvil: impossible21:27
* Arkenoi got SIP working with my local cellular network, so i am free from roaming charges when abroad with wifi or decent 3g nearby21:27
luke-jrit only works with Gizmo21:27
*** Smily has quit IRC21:27
SpeedEvilAnd gizmo is as I understand it not taking new registrations21:27
luke-jrnot since Google bought them21:27
jacekowskiit looks like my t-mobile is blocking sip21:27
luke-jrluckily, I had a spare since before21:27
SpeedEvilWould be nice.21:28
SpeedEvilSIP would be handy21:28
luke-jrjacekowski: even with TLS?21:28
SpeedEvilI have 'free' data.21:28
SpeedEvilThat is - free up to 1G/mo21:28
SpeedEvilI have no free calls21:28
luke-jrSpeedEvil: plenty of SIP origination21:28
* Arkenoi wonders why there is google voice, gizmo and gtalk voice and no unification among those at all. hell, i want to be valid SIP URI!21:28
jacekowskiluke-jr: n900 can do tls?21:28
luke-jrArkenoi: it never could be. URIs require a scheme21:28
jacekowskijabber should take over sip21:28
luke-jrjacekowski: not sure21:28
luke-jrjacekowski: N900 can't do Jabber video it seems21:29
luke-jrat least not over 3G?21:29
jacekowskiluke-jr: oO21:29
jacekowskio must have been halucinating21:29
Arkenoiluke-jr, well, :-)21:29
* luke-jr ponders if Empathy+SofiaSIP would work…21:29
jacekowskiluke-jr: i could bet i had jabber video working on 3g21:29
luke-jrjacekowski: didn't work for me ☹21:29
jacekowskiluke-jr: via my jabber server @jacekowski.org21:30
*** marcels has quit IRC21:30
chadiWhere is Hermes' data stored in /home?21:30
Arkenoiluke-jr, there is no difference for telepathy what network layer is21:30
jacekowskito my gmail account21:30
luke-jrArkenoi: …21:30
Arkenoiit is not symbian so no restrictions for sure :-)21:30
*** florian has joined #maemo21:30
luke-jrArkenoi: various protocols have varying NAT-compatibility21:30
luke-jrT-Mobile data is NAT21:30
Arkenoiluke-jr, JINGLE does NAT reasonably good, never had any problems with it21:31
luke-jrArkenoi: not telepathy-gabble apparently…21:31
luke-jror perhaps it was the double-NAT21:31
luke-jrthe other end is NAT too21:31
luke-jrbasically, I haven't found anything that works to video chat between Ubuntu and N90021:32
*** vblazquez has quit IRC21:32
Arkenoii talked via double NAT, no problems at all21:32
Arkenoin900 to desktop gtalk21:32
luke-jrgtalk doesn't support Liux21:32
jacekowskiluke-jr: yeah i tested it again21:33
jacekowskiluke-jr: and it's working21:33
jacekowskiwith like hour long lag21:33
* luke-jr peers21:33
luke-jrwhat client?21:33
jacekowskistock client on n90021:33
luke-jron the other side obviously21:33
jacekowskifirefox with gtalk plugin21:34
luke-jrhow do you use gtalk plugin without gmail?21:34
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo21:34
jacekowskifrom my phone i called my
luke-jrnot useful21:35
jacekowskibut there must be normal desktop client with video call support21:35
luke-jrsure, but it didn't work with N90021:35
jacekowskiname the client21:35
luke-jralso note that GTalk doesn't use Jingle21:35
jacekowskiwhatever it uses21:36
jacekowskiworks for me21:36
luke-jrit uses Google's non-standard non-compatible implementation "like" Jingle21:37
jacekowskiwell, it's compatible with normal jabber call from n900 going trough very pedanting eJabberd21:38
*** dvoid has joined #maemo21:38
liorin900's jabber client is based on mission control, which is based on telepathy, which is what empathy is based on21:42
liorithe same software handling the protocol on both sides21:43
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC21:43
chadithere's an app in the tools that logs an application's access to the /home - can you tell me what it is?21:43
liorithat's why it works21:44
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo21:44
*** tchan has quit IRC21:46
*** tchan has joined #maemo21:47
ZogGафые фзз ьфтфпук шы тще афые фтньщку =)21:51
ZogGfast app manager is not fats anymore*21:51
*** mikhas has joined #maemo21:51
jacekowskihmm, that's not russian phonetic21:56
pekujaI think it's "oops I had the wrong keyboard layout turned on"21:57
*** apoi has quit IRC21:58
*** luizirber has left #maemo22:00
*** LjL has quit IRC22:00
*** apoi has joined #maemo22:00
*** zeq has quit IRC22:01
RST38hHm, weird: the memory card is actually faster than internal mmc22:01
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk22:01
*** diegohcg has quit IRC22:03
*** celesteh has quit IRC22:03
RST38hTransferring 1+GB of data, what cache...22:03
*** larsivi has joined #maemo22:03
*** tackat has joined #maemo22:03
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo22:04
*** Wamanuz has quit IRC22:06
*** Wamanuz has joined #maemo22:07
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC22:08
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo22:09
*** millenomi has quit IRC22:10
*** t_s_o has quit IRC22:11
*** tkharju has joined #maemo22:12
*** millenomi has joined #maemo22:12
*** tkharju has quit IRC22:13
chadiif there's an application in the menu, how can I know what command is used to launch it?22:13
*** chenca has quit IRC22:14
chadinever mind, I got it, it's in /usr/share/applications/hildon22:14
*** LjL has joined #maemo22:15
*** _0x47 has quit IRC22:16
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo22:17
*** silbo has quit IRC22:17
*** silbo has joined #maemo22:18
*** millenomi has quit IRC22:18
*** BCMM has quit IRC22:19
*** trbs has joined #maemo22:20
RST38hAhha, I know what is going on with access speeds22:22
*** sheepbat has quit IRC22:22
RST38hCard READS are twice faster than card WRITES22:22
chadihow come hermes load from the menu, and doesn't when I issue /opt/hermes/bin/hermes, which is the command used by the menu launcher? it gives me 2 dbus errors22:22
*** lcukn900 has joined #maemo22:26
*** mirsal has quit IRC22:28
*** mece has joined #maemo22:29
*** zeq has joined #maemo22:34
*** guardian has joined #maemo22:36
*** kurosu has joined #maemo22:37
kurosugood evening22:38
kurosuis there any mean to make the phone vibrate except through some dbus api? I mean the following:22:39
luke-jrkurosu: of course, /but it isn't a phone/22:39
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo22:40
*** Rhoruns has joined #maemo22:40
MohammadAGany PyQt users here?22:40
MohammadAGwell, devs22:40
meceMohammadAG, yees?22:41
*** nicu has quit IRC22:41
kurosuluke-jr: well I'm more interested in some documentation for this than what the N900 should be called? :p22:41
meceMohammadAG, yees?22:42
luke-jrkurosu: echo 128 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness22:42
*** niko has quit IRC22:43
MohammadAGmece, any ideas how to set a background image in a PyQt app?22:43
luke-jrfor i in {1..255} 0; do echo $i > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness; sleep 0.1; done22:43
MohammadAGwould be lulz ^22:43
meceMohammadAG, for the whole thing you mean?22:43
*** woodong50___ has joined #maemo22:44
*** nik0 has joined #maemo22:44
*** woodong50___ has quit IRC22:45
meceMohammadAG, hmm. did you try throwing some stylesheets at the main widget?22:45
meceMohammadAG, as in
kurosuluke-jr: am I really free to do that? This sounds not enough generic, but point taken22:47
*** lsm5_ has joined #maemo22:47
* RST38h watches "Sanctuary". Weak reenactment of SCP files on film.22:51
*** Jigglypuff has joined #maemo22:52
*** nik0 is now known as niko22:52
*** jophish has joined #maemo22:54
VenemoJigglypuff: hi22:59
Arkenoiah, tv series. too long to start watching. if it was a movie..23:00
JigglypuffHi guys, i tried compile supertux2 (v0.3.3) with OpenGL ES support. I used libGLES and libGLUES, build completed, but when i start the game, no picture, only black screen, but i can start level, and the sound working fine... Could anyone help me? Any Idea?23:00
RST38hArkenoi: isn't worth it anyway23:00
mecemy inside factory worker tells me the N8-xx with slide keyboard has a crappier camera but is slimmer  and nicer than current N8, and it starts prod this fall, and N9 starts prod Q1 '11. FYI :)23:00
RST38hArkenoi: not believable, formulaic etc23:01
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC23:02
* SpeedEvil sighs at lousy book->series deas.23:02
SpeedEvilDresden Files.23:02
SpeedEvilCould have been _awesome_.23:02
SpeedEvilBut it needs a large budget.23:02
merlin1991Dresden Files suxxs after the first books23:03
*** Aranel has joined #maemo23:04
mecemovie time. I'm out. ta.23:06
*** mece has quit IRC23:06
SpeedEvilget_iplayer --pvr23:06
*** Jigglypuff is now known as Andy121023:07
luke-jrkurosu: who said generic?23:07
*** mikecomputing has joined #maemo23:07
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo23:07
*** IcanCU has quit IRC23:08
Andy1210hi Venemo23:10
kurosume. it's hardwired to specific h/w, but it's probably better than the dbus api. Now it also depends on the required access rights through one method or the other23:10
*** Dragnslicer has quit IRC23:12
GAN900merlin1991, what?23:12
GAN900merlin1991, they just get better and better.23:13
GAN900SpeedEvil, it needs producers to not screw around with plot elements.23:13
*** wtfyeahhhh has joined #maemo23:13
wtfyeahhhhI want to be able to slow down music, so I was happy that maemo could run mplayer - but when I press '[' or ']' in the terminal to slow down mplayer, mplayer freezes23:14
merlin1991nah GAN900, in the first few dresden is rather weak and only survives by pure luck/some awesome trick23:14
GAN900If this is the Matrix analogy, then I call bogus. :P23:15
merlin1991in the later books he beats everyone that was a major thread earlier with ease23:15
GAN900Where did you stop?23:15
merlin1991I read them all :D23:15
SpeedEvilEven the graphic novel?23:16
SpeedEvil(I diddn't go that far)23:16
merlin1991I skipped those23:16
merlin1991the last one I read is Turn Coat23:17
merlin1991so there are actually 2 newer ones23:17
wtfyeahhhhhow would you slow the speed of music on the n900?23:18
*** mosmm has quit IRC23:18
SpeedEvilwtfyeahhhh: I would start by working out where mplyaer is crashing.23:18
SpeedEvilgdb, for examle.23:18
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC23:18
wtfyeahhhhno idea23:19
wtfyeahhhhnot sure how to check23:19
wtfyeahhhhit just stops right away23:19
SpeedEvilenable debugging symbols during compilation.23:19
wtfyeahhhhi hear the slower music for less than a second23:19
SpeedEvilRun under gdb23:19
*** habmala has quit IRC23:19
SpeedEvilwhen it crashes, type 'bt' to get a backtrace, and then post this to mplayer mailing lists23:19
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo23:22
* ShadowJK_ 'd first of all retry it with -ao pulse23:22
wtfyeahhhhmaybe there is a debugging enabled one in the dev ports23:22
wtfyeahhhh"mplayer -ao pulse"?23:23
wtfyeahhhhanother question...when I press up arrow, why doesnt the term in maemo remember the cmds from last time?23:23
MohammadAGstacked windows are an ass23:23
*** b-man` has quit IRC23:23
ShadowJK_yeah, "mplayer -ao pulse file.mp3" or something23:23
*** b-man` has joined #maemo23:24
luke-jrwtfyeahhhh: no23:24
kurosuHow can I detect maemo in a configure script? for instance what would be the value of the usual host variable?23:25
wtfyeahhhhno what?23:25
luke-jr[15:23:33] <wtfyeahhhh> another question…when I press up arrow, why doesnt the term in maemo remember the cmds from last time?23:25
luke-jrwtfyeahhhh: because it doesn't.23:25
merlin1991wtfyeahhhh, you have to exit xterm by typing exit to have the cmds remembered23:25
luke-jrkurosu: Maemo is an OS, not an architecture23:25
ShadowJK_kurosu, I've seen people try link to libosso23:25
kurosuluke-jr: so is mingw and cygwin yet they get specific host23:26
luke-jrkurosu: no they're not23:26
luke-jrmingw is just a compiler23:26
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC23:26
kurosu+ runtime + ...23:26
MohammadAGkurosu, use osso-product-info23:26
luke-jrand they're exceptions because Windows is so screwed up23:26
wtfyeahhhhthe pulse thing worked23:26
luke-jrkurosu: no, MingW doesn't need a runtime23:26
wtfyeahhhhis there a way to press [ to slow music in the regular music player?23:26
ShadowJK_msys is more like that..23:26
luke-jrMingW-built EXEs run natively without any dependencies23:26
wtfyeahhhhalso, why doesnt the regular music player allow you to skip around if its a flac file?23:27
kurosutrue, though you need to code sometimes specifically for them23:27
kurosuif I was interested in debating this I would question about cygwin then, but I'm more interested in a simple test in configure23:28
pupnik_  John Carmack demos 'Rage' on iphone - quakecon 201023:28
kurosuso I don't get such a simple solution for maemo23:28
*** ShadowJK_ is now known as ShadowJK23:29
wtfyeahhhhthat's really helpful, thanks merlin199123:30
*** dvoid has quit IRC23:31
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo23:33
*** RangerBob has joined #maemo23:35
pupnik_wtfyeahhhh: might be possible to remap those keys in a mplayer config23:35
wtfyeahhhhso it will work with the regular maemo player?23:36
ShadowJKregular media player has no such feature23:36
wtfyeahhhhah lame23:37
wtfyeahhhhthought it might be using mplayer23:37
wtfyeahhhhkmplayer have key bindings?23:37
pupnik_you can lower speed and /or pitch23:37
ShadowJKno it's mafw+gstreamer or something..23:37
wtfyeahhhhyeah, speed is what I want23:37
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC23:38
*** bbee has quit IRC23:46
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo23:46
*** bbee has joined #maemo23:50
*** tackat has quit IRC23:50
*** jophish has quit IRC23:51
*** tackat has joined #maemo23:51
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:51
*** mikhas has quit IRC23:57
*** guardian has quit IRC23:58

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!