IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-09-02

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lupine_85like a reversed version of
GNUtoo|laptopDocScrutinizer, I wonder about something, if n900 has lots of devs for SHR maybe they will be enough00:00
lupine_85(the whiteboard version)00:00
GNUtoo|laptopand I should go palm-pre00:00
lcuklupine_85, yeah00:00
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lcuk(hence inverted..)00:00
lcukit uses a triangle of leds00:01
DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: nah, you should join the N900 effort00:01
lcukits the sort of thing the wiimote does00:01
GNUtoo|laptopDocScrutinizer, why? really?00:01
GNUtoo|laptopwhere should/can I help on n900 port00:01
DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: talk with mickey00:01
MNZGNUtoo|laptop, because #maemo is fun!00:01
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DocScrutinizerwell, MNZ - I don't think GNUtoo|laptop will be much involved in #maemo, when porting SHR to N90000:02
DocScrutinizerregex matched :-P00:03
GNUtoo|laptopDocScrutinizer, mickeyl is not there at the moment00:03
GNUtoo|laptopdo you know the reason why I should join the n900 port00:03
DocScrutinizerI can't help00:03
GNUtoo|laptop*I know a bit vala00:03
GNUtoo|laptop*I know a bit kernel00:04
GNUtoo|laptop*I know oe00:04
GNUtoo|laptopbut I'm not sure reverse-engineering is for me00:04
DocScrutinizerall good points to join N900-SHR, rather than go for a crappy pre00:04
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DocScrutinizerGNUtoo|laptop: there's no RE needed00:04
GNUtoo|laptopif no RE I join as soon as I come back in italy00:05
DocScrutinizerN900 is just open enough so you don't need RE00:05
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DocScrutinizer(mostly :-P)00:05
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MNZfunny we were just discussing pulseaudio a few hours ago :P00:06
DocScrutinizerthere's at least 4 OS running on N900 right now, and 2 of them are actually doing phonecalls now00:06
keriomaemo and nitdroid?00:07
kerioi thought meego did calls too00:07
DocScrutinizerduh, so make that 500:07
keriowait, what00:07
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keriomaemo fremantle, nitdroid, meego and?00:07
DocScrutinizergentoo, buntkuh00:07
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lcukqole has a nice easydebian doesnt he00:09
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kerionah, DEBIAN should always be in all caps00:09
DocScrutinizersix, who got more ? :-D00:09
lcukthat allows maemo phone calls still00:09
kerioand we were talking about OSes00:09
kerioweren't we00:09
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lcuki think mer was based on ubuntu00:09
keriodoes mer run on n900?00:09
lcukyes i believe so00:09
lcuki dunno which version anymore00:10
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lcuki have seen amiga emulators and dos emulators :P00:10
kerioDocScrutinizer: yeah but how many of those can run concurrently?00:10
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DocScrutinizerI resisted that pun00:10
lcukkerio, easydebian runs in a window00:10
kerioeasydebian is *not* a OS :|00:11
lcukand easymeego will as well if i read it correctly00:11
lcukits debian :P00:11
keriowhy would i run something like "easymeego"00:11
lcukbecause hardmeego is hard00:11
MNZbecause ameego is hard..... isn't that what she said?00:12
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DocScrutinizerwell chroot isn't really an OS for this competition00:12
SpeedEvilThere is no especial reason you can't make it not a chroot00:12
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DocScrutinizermissing system drivers00:13
SpeedEvilFor example - rip out all of the post-X-bringup stuff, and jam in the debian chroot in there.00:13
SpeedEvilAnd you've got it mostly.00:13
SpeedEvilAnd yes - this is maeohmygodnowhathaveyoudonetocreatethisabominationian - not a clean merge.00:14
DocScrutinizerhow's easy debian going to create a native /dev and /sys?00:14
jacekowskiwith udev00:14
kerioDocScrutinizer: copy scripts! what else?00:14
MohammadAGnative? it's won't, mount --bind ftw00:14
SpeedEvilI mean by jam the chroot in - copy the bits of chroots into / - and simply have X start it00:15
MohammadAG* HarryS ( has joined #maemo00:15
MohammadAG<lcuk> i think mer was based on ubuntu00:15
DocScrutinizerI think for a device it takes more than mkdev00:15
MohammadAGdamn, copied an extra line00:15
MohammadAGUbuntu 8.0400:15
SpeedEvilBasically - debian is another 'user'00:15
SpeedEvilwith a different xconfig00:15
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MohammadAG56 minutes to copy over 21GBs... so slow00:15
lcukMohammadAG, try it over wifi ;)00:15
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jacekowskilcuk: i was copying my old HDDs to new NAS00:16
jacekowskilcuk: over wifi00:16
jacekowskitook me two weeks00:16
jacekowski2T of data00:16
jacekowskiwell little bit more than 1T00:16
lcukyyou shouldv left off the binary 1s00:16
lcukit wouldv copied quicker00:16
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jacekowski/dev/md2              1.9T  1.2T  664G  65% /shares/Data00:18
jacekowskiARM, gigabit NIC00:18
jacekowski128M of ram00:18
lcukwhy use wifi then?00:19
jacekowskibecause i had no cable00:19
jacekowskiwell, i had a cable and plugs00:20
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly why dbus-scripting acted up in such a "funny" way.00:20
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keriojacekowski: wait, what00:20
kerioA WEEK?00:20
MNZ2 weeks00:21
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kerioi can transfer 250gb in less than a day00:21
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keriovia wifi00:21
keriohalf n00:21
MohammadAGlcuk, wifi eh?00:21
jacekowskiwhile still using it for other stuff00:21
MohammadAGthe N900 supports G only afaik00:21
kerioyeah :(00:21
MohammadAG(well, g and b, but still)00:21
crashanddieok wtf00:21
keriowho uses b anyway00:21
jacekowskimy wifi can push 2M/s at most00:21
jacekowskiand it's b/g00:22
MohammadAGkerio, sony, PSP00:22
DocScrutinizerand just for the laughs and giggles - if anybody wants to investigate why you can't start the device via powerbutton, when you powered it down correctly while a forkbomb was eating up all processtable entries... you're welcome00:22
jacekowskiup to 54mbits00:22
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: because it doesn't shut down00:22
MohammadAGI downloaded a file with 20MB/s speeds over gigabit00:22
MohammadAGactually, the other PC was a 10/10000:22
crashanddieipod nano in the us $149 (116 euros), ipod nano in france: 169 euros ($216)00:22
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: and this surprises you why?00:22
jacekowskiapple sux00:22
MohammadAGthey should do what sony did00:22
jacekowskiwhat does sony do?00:23
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: was my idea as well, but then why would it start with unlit NOLO screen on plugin of charger?00:23
crashanddieSpeedEvil: well, usually they keep the same digits, different currency -- that I was used to00:23
MohammadAG$149 in the US = 149 euros in the EU, 149 pounds in the UK00:23
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: also - note thatr import duty and VAT is a largish slice of that.00:23
MohammadAGnow if only they did that to yens00:23
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jacekowskicrashanddie: do you know that you have to add sales tax to price they give you on US website?00:23
crashanddiejacekowski: I didn't00:23
crashanddiethat would make a lot more sense then00:23
crashanddienevermind, I'll stfu00:23
jacekowskiyeah i went to shop in US00:23
kerio149$ -> 216$ is a lot00:24
jacekowskito buy stuff for $10000:24
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jacekowskiand i had to pay like 10-20$ more00:24
jacekowskibecause they don't tell you about that tax00:24
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kerioyeah but that's 65$ of taxes on 149$00:24
crashanddieSpeedEvil & jacekowski: the website says "44 eur tax on the 8gb nano"00:24
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: in addition?00:25
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crashanddienope, included00:25
crashanddieEU law forces the price to include the taxes00:25
SpeedEvilUnless it's B2B00:25
crashanddie(or at least mention when it's before tax)00:25
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jacekowskiyeah, i hate when people do it like that00:26
jacekowskigive you price before/after taxes depending on what's better for them00:26
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jacekowskiand then if you think about it00:27
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: (forkbomb) just test it, it's painless00:27
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lcuk19 years of commercial cellphones00:28
jacekowskiwhen you get paid for example £30k/year then there is 20% income tax + 11% of NI just before it ever reaches you00:28
SpeedEvilCorporation tax too.00:28
jacekowski9.3k of taxes there00:29
jacekowskithen add VAT00:29
crashanddieI was about to buy a nano right now00:29
* SpeedEvil puts on a track by Paul Hardcastle.00:29
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jacekowskianother 20%00:29
jacekowskiand it works out that over 50% of your wages are taxes straight away00:29
crashanddiethen I thought: "When the fuck am I going to use it? I'm driving a motorbike -- no music; and all the rest of the time I have a laptop or good sound system"00:29
jacekowskithen council tax00:29
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: yeah.00:30
jacekowskisome other smaller taxes00:30
crashanddiejacekowski: in the UK, someone who earns over 150k a year pays 62.5% taxes00:30
SpeedEvilcrashanddie - my n900 is actually quite adequate for me as an mp3 player.00:30
lcukwhat was the model number of the first nokia cellphone?00:30
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* lcuk wants a picture really00:30
jacekowskicrashanddie: only from the amount above 150k00:30
lcukbut in all the history of cellphones i see damned motos00:30
crashanddiejacekowski: no, on average00:31
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crashanddiejacekowski: err, sorry, yes, obviously00:31
MohammadAGlcuk, the first nokia just spawned00:31
lcukMobira Cityman00:31
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jacekowskicrashanddie: all taxes or just income + ni + something?00:31
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keriothe 3310 was a fucking revolution00:32
crashanddiejacekowski: all taxes00:32
jacekowskibut it's too high anyways00:32
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crashanddiejacekowski: hang on, I blogged about it00:32
DocScrutinizerDas Nokia 1011, das erste GSM-Mobiltelefon von Nokia, wurde im November 1992 in den Markt eingeführt.00:32
lcukkerio, 3310?00:32
lcukyou were late to the party :P00:32
kerionokia 3310/333000:32
lcuk3210 was the iconic one most people I ask remember00:32
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jacekowskicrashanddie: and have you heard what colchester county councill plans to do00:32
crashanddiejacekowski: note the date:
lcukgoogle gives the 6230 as its first hit on pictures for "nokia phone"00:33
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jacekowskicrashanddie: build two million pounds gypsy traveller site in colchester00:33
jacekowskifor them to live there00:33
crashanddietwo million is nothing00:34
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jacekowskithat's part of costs00:34
lupine_85sounds like a good idea to me00:34
jacekowskinew houses were built close to there00:34
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jacekowskithink about how value of this houses will drop00:34
* lupine_85 notes there's a gypsy traveller site with permanent housing built about 10m from his hosue00:34
lupine_85it's fine00:34
jacekowskiyou must be one of them00:35
lupine_85oh, quit snobbing00:35
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jacekowskithey are already there00:35
jacekowskion illegaly00:35
lupine_85I'm neither Roma nor Irish traveller, but I can sympathize00:35
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jacekowskiand well, stuff has gone missing00:35
lupine_85yes, that happens00:36
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lupine_85cheer up00:36
jacekowskibesides, why they are supposed to get houses from my taxes00:36
keriothe 3310 was the one that sold the most00:36
jacekowskibut when i want house i have to pay for it myself?00:36
SpeedEvil3310 is awesome.00:37
lcukkerio, if only it was on the ovi store00:37
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SpeedEvilHousebuilding in the UK is fucked.00:37
lupine_85it really is00:37
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lcukwe dont have much room left for houses00:37
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keriolcuk: hehe00:37
SpeedEvilWe either need to build about 5 million houses, or  share.00:37
kerioi'd buy a 331000:37
lupine_85travellers camps for the roma is basically another form of council / social housing00:37
lcukkerio, i just made a point about it in #meego00:37
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lcuklots of people would00:37
lupine_85and I'm mostly for it. it has a ghettoization effect but with a culture so different, I'm not sure you can avoid it00:38
SpeedEvilAnd we need to just fucking stop this 'houses as investment' ideal.00:38
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lcuka full emulated original style nokia00:38
lcukon their n90000:38
jacekowskicouncil / social housing should be gone00:38
lcukwith replacable covers no less!00:38
lupine_85surprise right-winger00:38
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jacekowskieither everybody gets it00:38
jacekowskior nobody00:38
lupine_85we should nationalize the housing market, yes00:38
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lcukjacekowski, do you own your house or live with parents?00:38
lcukor other00:38
lupine_85in the absence of that (free market, etc) all we can do is subsidize the lower end - safety-netted free-market economy00:38
keriolcuk: no, i meant, a physical 331000:38
lupine_85no biggie00:39
lcukkerio, indeed but for modern generation :)00:39
keriono, a 331000:39
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lcukhell - a nokia app on the iphone would be awesome00:39
keriogive it a e-ink display00:39
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kerioand a better battery00:39
keriobut leave snake where it is00:39
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jacekowskilcuk: i bought a house just to rent it out00:39
SpeedEvilkerio: the nokia 1100 or whatever it's callred isn't actually that far off.00:39
jacekowskilcuk: and get somebody to pay for my mortgage00:39
lcukjacekowski, the money markets got this way because of things like that00:40
keriowe have a couple of houses00:40
keriowe're actually paying the rent on this one00:40
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jacekowskikerio: imagine that you are paying for somebody elses mortgage00:40
kerioi'm not paying for anything00:41
keriomy parents are00:41
kerioi'm just waiting for my inheritance00:41
lupine_85sweet, delicious buy-to-let. grr to broken housing market00:41
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jacekowskino, that's money00:41
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lcukjacekowski, what happens when your tennant moves out?00:42
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jacekowskithen i can still afford to pay for it myself00:42
kerioor he can find another one00:42
lcukreasonable enough00:42
jacekowskibesides, it took me some time to find house00:42
kerioand he'll still have a house anyway00:42
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kerio2 things are very rarely wrong00:43
keriobuying gold and buying buildings00:43
jacekowskiand it's not in a place that people would avoid00:43
jacekowskiso i'm not too worried about it being empty for too long time00:43
MNZhave you guys heard of the concept of Perpetual Traveler?00:43
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SpeedEvilThe price of housing is butt-fucking large sectors of society.00:43
lupine_85totally requires additional nationalisation00:44
SpeedEvilUnfortunately, I'm insulated from it, due to inheritance.00:44
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lcukNokia is currently the world's largest digital camera manufacturer, as the sales of its camera-equipped mobile phones have exceeded those of any conventional camera manufacturer.00:44
lcuk(from )00:44
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crashanddie"A number of Dutch colleges are considering legal action against the publisher of a move-in guide for new freshmen, after the company included an ad recruiting students for jobs as online sex workers."00:45
jacekowskiwhat about iCrap?00:45
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crashanddielcuk: and the quality still fails to beat entry level P&S cameras00:45
jacekowskicrashanddie: my first digital camera wasn't even close to n900 camera00:46
jacekowski4x zoom00:46
jacekowskiand sooooooooooooo much noise00:46
jacekowskiand long startup time00:46
crashanddieI didn't say first camera from 20 years ago00:46
lcukthe n900 camera is outstanding and has been with me for more occasions than my old dedicated camera00:46
lcukbasically because I have phone all the time00:46
jacekowskithat was less than 5 years ago00:46
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SpeedEvilThe n900 camera is great - for a phone camera.00:47
SpeedEvilBut being in a package 6mm deep, and 12mm across means that certain optical compromises have to be made.00:47
lcukcrashanddie, one thing N900 can do that any P&S device cant really: be upgraded00:47
SpeedEvilWhcih reminds me - I still need to print out a pic.00:47
crashanddielcuk: eh?00:47
lcukfcam and the other stuff coming through is unheard of00:47
SpeedEvillcuk: It really can't.00:47
SpeedEvillcuk: Oh00:47
SpeedEvillcuk: I thought you meant hw00:47
crashanddielcuk: I've had more updates on my LX3 than I've had updates on the N90000:47
SpeedEvilYou can in principle swap out the n900 camera00:48
SpeedEvilfor a better one00:48
lcukhardly P&S?00:48
SpeedEvilthat requires finding a better one in the space00:48
crashanddielcuk: it is a P&S. Prosumer maybe, but P&S nonetheless00:48
SpeedEvilA mugen battery, with a nicer camera module would be interesting.00:48
jacekowskiwell, it's probably not a camera problem00:48
lcukcrashanddie, the dedicated camera costs £30000:49
jacekowskibut optics problem00:49
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lcukSpeedEvil, indeed it would00:49
crashanddiejacekowski: same difference00:49
lcukdid you see the n810 mobile conversion mod by the way?00:49
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SpeedEvillcuk: no.00:49
lcukawesome thread and attention to detail00:49
lcukjust a mo00:49
crashanddieyou can't gather enough photons in such a tiny package00:49
lcukill find the thread00:49
SpeedEvillcuk: I have almost stopped looking at hardware I don't own.00:49
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crashanddieArkenoi: and you linked to that because?00:50
SpeedEvillcuk: Simply as it means I have less time to do stuff I do own.00:50
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Arkenoicrashanddie, maybe somebody else has a hint. others do use nuevasync and it works well for them. at least it is more reliable than
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lcukthis page has most pictures00:51
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lcukthe guy is converting n810 to phone00:52
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ping00:52
lcukadded sim card and stuff00:52
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: pong00:52
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SpeedEvilArgh - stupid client.00:52
DocScrutinizerany luck with post office?00:52
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crashanddieArkenoi: ah, sorry, didn't realise you had the issue00:52
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SpeedEvilThe n900 price in the UK store is crashing.00:57
SpeedEvilWas 499, then 459, now 38900:57
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lupine_85that has dropped a bit00:58
lupine_85I guess they've made their money00:58
SpeedEvilOr they're about to disco itr.00:58
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SpeedEvilThough I'd not expect that quite yet.00:59
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DocScrutinizerN900i :-P00:59
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DocScrutinizer"now with real USB, that lasts"00:59
SpeedEviln900 mini00:59
SpeedEvilIt's a joint effort with BMW. It's a n900, with a small engine, and 4 wheels.01:00
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pupnikwhat's the best way to route my computer audio stream to multiple devices (linux phone, server, laptop) and get synchronized playback?01:00
SpeedEvilIt has a Michael Cain ringtone sample.01:00
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jacekowskipupnik: no way it would be synchronised01:01
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: RTP01:02
jacekowskipupnik: linux can't even sync it if it's on same computer via two different sound cards01:02
DocScrutinizerpupnik: or PA over network01:02
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: you should try same internet radio station concurrently on those devices, and probably not expect your own setup to get any better 'sync'01:04
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pupniknokia has echo-cancellation that can detect a shift in a signal from microphone01:06
pupnikcould use the same algorithm to detect skew in different playback devices01:06
DocScrutinizererr, yup01:06
jacekowskibut it uses some constants to know delays in hardware01:06
DocScrutinizersomething like NTP01:06
jacekowskiand it then matches signal from microphone with signal from speakers01:07
derfThat stuff is surprisingly difficult to get right.01:07
DocScrutinizeractually it does no assumption at all about delay01:07
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jacekowskiyou would need rough idea where are you with your delay01:07
DocScrutinizerexcept it to be in sub second of course01:07
jacekowskiand with that amount of buffering it would be hard01:07
derfFor example, in most consumer hardware, the microphone and speakers don't run off the same clock.01:07
jacekowskifrom the other side01:08
jacekowskiif you could use one device to add little bit more delay or remove01:09
jacekowskiso you don't have to compensate there01:09
jacekowskiyou just compensate for differences01:09
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jacekowskiit would be possible but i'm not sure how stable01:09
babsher_pupnik: you could use some bluetooth audio service or VLC has brocasting ability01:09
babsher_i think that vlc will soon be available for maemo01:09
DocScrutinizerbased on what? manual tuning is simple, I even did that with 2 CD players which is real fun and usually keeps sync for whole CD01:10
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DocScrutinizerbut honestly, what means 'synced' if the 2 devices are e.g 30m distance from each other01:12
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DocScrutinizerfor each device the other one appears to be 100ms late01:13
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DocScrutinizerso in sync depends largely on your definition of the requirements01:15
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BlafaselHi. Just tried to revive my N810 to give my wife a way to listen to music on her trip tomorrow, but Canola won't play anything at all. Any idea what I might try to fix it?01:18
SpeedEvilDo any sounds work?01:18
kerioDocScrutinizer: there's no sync in the real world01:19
BlafaselIt just hangs in the "Now playing" screen, showing no title information. I can go back, but that only works once. As soon as I'm seeing the list of tracks Canola is frozen (can only kill it)01:19
BlafaselSpeedEvil: Do keyboard clicks count?01:19
keriosync has no meaning01:19
jacekowskiflash it01:20
BlafaselSpeedEvil: Media player plays mp3s just fine, yes.01:21
BlafaselCanola hangs at the same files.. =(01:21
SpeedEvilumm - if media player plays what's the problem01:21
SpeedEvilremove and reinstall canola?01:21
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BlafaselThe problem is that media player sucks and she's going to have trouble using that.01:22
DocScrutinizerfor me canola sucks and I don't get how to operate it, but de gustibus...01:23
BlafaselIt's the single most useful app on maemo for me.. Love the UI01:24
DocScrutinizeryeah, greedy UI that doesn't even allow to go to homescreen01:24
BlafaselHm? Not? Pressing the home button works for me?01:25
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DocScrutinizerthere's no home button on N90001:25
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BlafaselDid they update Canola for the N900?01:25
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BlafaselOr are we talking about the "Who could've guessed that the button might be missing in the future" version I have?01:25
DocScrutinizerso screw that candy UI that doesn't follow standards01:26
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lcukGeneralAntilles, GAN900
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lcukb-man`, do you still have your ubuntu build you once did02:22
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pupnik01:02 <+pupnik> it's rather difficult to end a tyrannical government02:22
pupnik01:20 < torment> they should have an app for that02:23
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lcukpupnik, normal chans for you i see02:28
* lcuk digs into source 02:28
pupniki thought it was funny02:28
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teilzeitstudentprobably a stupid question, but... is the extra microsd card supposed to be accessible via usb?02:29
lcukwell its standard answer to everthing02:29
lcukteilzeitstudent, i believe so02:29
lcuksince n900 offers 2 devices when i plug it in02:29
lcukerr drives02:29
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teilzeitstudentwell under windows i get 2 drives as well... under linux only one02:29
teilzeitstudentbut both get unmounted on the device02:29
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lcukteilzeitstudent, i don't think the n900 can distinguish host os side02:30
lcukso it offers both02:30
lcukand normally i think both are available in linux02:30
lcukbut that will depend on the config02:30
* lcuk checks ubuntu02:30
lcuk/media/nokia n90002:31
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lcukboth available (strange name tho)02:32
teilzeitstudentmh. I only get the /media/nokia n90002:32
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teilzeitstudentdo you have a microsd in your phone? under windows i always get 2 new drives, even when i do not even select storage or pc suite mode02:33
lcukteilzeitstudent, unplug usb02:34
lcukand check in file manager02:34
lcukwhether both show up02:34
teilzeitstudentthey do.. in mount they are both listed.02:34
lcuki didnt ask in mount02:34
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teilzeitstudentthat mount was additional info. both internal and card show up when unplugged02:34
lcukdunno then, which linux are you using02:35
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teilzeitstudentgentoo. either i forgot to include some kernel config, a udev rule is missing or gnome messes up.02:36
lcukteilzeitstudent, check dmesg or equiv and see what it says, but you are likely right02:37
teilzeitstudentcould you do a "cat /usr/src/linux/.config | grep -i usb" and post the output to pastebin?02:38
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teilzeitstudentah nvm. too much info on std kernels i guess.02:38
teilzeitstudentah well thanks, i'm off to happy kernel compiling :p02:39
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zeltakhya DocScrutinizer and lcuk ..well 2 days without runing any game emulation apps and zero reboots....02:43
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DocScrutinizerhmm, hat's new in that?02:43
nox-ah your flash is ok now?02:43
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DocScrutinizeroh, the 'borked' flash02:44
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lcukzeltak, thats ok for a start02:45
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MNZDr. House is such a bastard02:51
zeltakyeah DocScrutinizer the borked flash :)02:51
zeltakso am wondering if i should test it somemore since if the flash is really borked i might as well get it replaced while the warrenty is still active02:52
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lcukzeltak, if its working when you return it what can they do03:00
lcukmnz hes not that bad03:01
MNZlcuk, he is a complete and utter bastard, with intermittent bursts of ethics. Quite entertaining though03:02
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zeltaklcuk: what do you mean? if the flash memory has bad sectors arent they obliged to replace it?03:03
lcukDocScrutinizer, are the plugins for xchat easy to write03:03
SpeedEvilzeltak: no03:04
lcukzeltak, i dont know anything about warranties except for when i returned computer stuff years ago03:04
SpeedEvilHow borked do you mean?03:04
lcukand my motherboard worked for them and they charged me a restocking fee03:04
SpeedEvilBad blocks in ubifs are normal03:04
zeltakubifs? SpeedEvil: i only get errors when i run game emulators03:06
SpeedEvilAre you overclocking?03:07
nox-grr why is ff so slow with big(ish) pastebins03:07
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zeltakSpeedEvil: no and never did03:08
SpeedEvilOk - that's a clear HW error IMO03:08
SpeedEvilYou need ideally some way to provoke that in normal use.03:08
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zeltakthats the thing SpeedEvil it only happens when runing games in the snes emulator (so far..)03:09
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SpeedEvildoes dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/zero error too?03:10
SpeedEvil- it will take a coupler of hours03:10
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zeltakyeah did that (maxed out a 4gb) with no errors03:11
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SpeedEvil(should not max out)03:12
SpeedEvilyou could install gnu dd - I forget the package03:12
zeltakisnt there a 4gb max per file on fat32?03:12
zeltakim guessing the emmc is fat32 right?03:12
SpeedEvilyes - that's irrelevant if it's the underlying devcie03:12
SpeedEvilthe emmc is a block device03:12
SpeedEvilIt has 4 partitions, one of which is vfat03:12
zeltakahhh i see03:13
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zeltakso when the error is on mmcblk0 what partition is it?03:13
SpeedEvilthe kernel reports the read error03:14
SpeedEvilIt doesn't report what the device it's on is.03:14
zeltakits so wierd it only happens under emulator games..normal games (angry birds fine..)03:15
SpeedEvilWell - it may be that where the games are installed has block errors03:15 mean the roms or the actuall game binaries?03:16
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zeltakyes which one lol?03:16
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zeltakahh i see :) but i reflashes twice and still had same can the binary files be written again to the exact same place..03:18
SpeedEvilAfter this happens - can you acccess any files on the mmc?03:19
nox-i wonder if the emulator(s?) do something not kosher...03:19
SpeedEvilIt's not impossible.03:19
SpeedEvilIt shouldn't be screwing with anything that will cause that sort of errors though03:20
SpeedEvilAlso - insrtall syslog03:20
zeltakSpeedEvil: well when it happens the machine reboots but after that things are back to normal03:20
SpeedEvilare the block numbers always the same03:20
zeltakSpeedEvil: the errors you saw were from the syslog03:21
SpeedEvilI mean - are the block numbers constant03:21
zeltakahhh dunno ill have to install the emulator agian..ill do that later today :)03:22
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lolcatHow to synch with google calendar?!03:46
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asjlolcat: mfe03:48
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zeltaklolcat: mail for exchange03:53
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lolcatbut google != exchange03:58
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zeltakguys..out of curiosity which folders do you backup (.config, /home/user etc..)?04:04
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smharsorry got disconnected04:12
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lolcatzeltak: I dont04:16
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pytherWhere there a whole bunch of updates for maemo released today?04:44
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pytherThe application manager says there are no updates but if I do apt-get upgrade there are about 41 libraries that need to be upgraded. What should I do?04:46
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* peb is gone. Gone since Wed Sep 1 11:44:00 201004:51
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pytherSpeedEvil: ping05:04
pythershould I upgrade libraries using apt-get upgrade?05:07
pytheror is that a bad idea?05:07
mortiniSpeedEvil: only since the epoch?05:07
mortiniyou were born on the epoch?05:07
mortiniIf you were, that'd be epic.05:07
mortiniepic epoch.05:07
SpeedEvilI was just irritated by pebs silly enter message.05:08
mortinii am date +%s old.05:08
mortiniI figured.05:08
mortiniBut my sarcasm knows no bounds.05:09
mortiniBecause, surely, somewhere, there's a geek with that birthday?05:09
mortiniDamn, if i had that birthday05:09
SpeedEvilI'm too young.05:09
mortiniOn my resume, that'd be the #1 item.05:09
luke-jr1283393393 doesn't parse as a birthday05:09
mortiniI was born on the Epoch, mofo!05:09
mortiniluke-jr: lrn2format05:09
mortiniSpeedEvil: me too.05:09
luke-jrmortini: no u05:09
mortinibut, still.05:09
* nox- was born a few yrs before the epoch...05:10
luke-jrmortini: POSIX date gives seconds for +%s05:10
luke-jralso, you suck05:10
pytherShould I upgrade libraries using apt-get update?05:11
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luke-jrpyther: no, you should install Gentoo and use emerge05:11
mortiniluke-jr: who, me or nox-?05:11
luke-jrmortini: you05:11
pytherluke-jr: well I figure gentoo on the N900 would be painful :P05:12
mortinisadly, i can't use date to parse +%s output05:12
luke-jrpyther: you figure wrong05:12
mortiniAnd i don't care to do anything more complex.05:12
luke-jrI telnet to port 8888 and eval ;ctime(1283393393)05:13
mortinioh, it could be done, i'm sure, with python or perl05:13
mortinibut, doing really awkward things in shell scripts is awesome05:13
mortinii once wrote a perl script that generated a shell script that generated c that generated asm05:14
mortiniI'm trying to break my habit of the 2000 line shell script, though05:14
pytherluke-jr: really though I'm looking for a serious answer, why do I have libraries that can be upgraded? Is it because of extra-devel? If so, why are they in extra-devel?05:15
luke-jralias ctime='perl -e "use POSIX \"ctime\";print ctime @ARGV"'05:15
luke-jrpyther: why wouldn't you/05:15
pytherluke-jr: why wouldn't I what?05:16
pytherthe don't show up in ham (I think that in Maemo's gui package manager)05:17
luke-jrwhy wouldn't you have libraries that can be upgraded?05:17
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pytherluke-jr: well if I understand your question, typically if you have libraries that need to be upgraded that means your system isn't up-to-date05:18
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* ToGgG__son search keny arkana.. pv 06:01
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* ToGgG__son search elle`06:06
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* ToGgG__son main sur coeur hand heart machin 06:28
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* ToGgG__son send to time Z sol lune 4 coins N S EO06:29
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* ToGgG__son dev message >> null06:31
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* ToGgG__son AcInDiGo ♪ .. A. K. VvVoOo ♪ /!\06:48
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* ToGgG__son sorry for this mais .... obligé car elle chante la vie et la mort est la mais ne la cherchez pas !
mortinino habla espanol07:01
ToGgG__sonl'autorité a été tuée .... ils n'ont pas bien gardé la boite en cristal :s quel dommage du coup tout le monde tous les mondes en ont profité..07:01
ToGgG__sonsorry for french, they killed Gods and the pandora cristal box is open, and money to money time to time time is money money is time and all people of the world has won money with our times....07:03
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mortiniToGgG__son: and surely that bizarre statement is worthy of much spam.07:06
johnxmortini, ever notice that spam is becoming increasingly surreal?07:07
*** muellisoft is now known as Muelli07:07
johnxI mean, eventually my spam filter will actually become a surreality filter and I'll never be able to communicate with creators of modern art ...07:07
ToGgG__sonplease down this ... it's a shit of france ( port 6667 servers ... /map and links ... but be carefull it's an unrealepik irc Daemon07:07
mortinijohnx: eh, noticed this for ~10 years now. it's a signal/noise ratio thing. more noise makes it difficult to detect07:08
johnxyeah, but the signal/noise ratio is getting so high in spam these days that even I can't properly understand what they're trying to sell a lot of the time07:09
johnxToGgG__son, please go away now. kthxbye07:09
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ToGgG__sonI can't07:11
ToGgG__sonbecause no meds for me07:11
ToGgG__sonbecause alcoohol :s07:11
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Stskeepsmorn ClaesBas07:55
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yoyoyowhere is the best place to buy a n900 battery, and what is the best way to charge it?08:21
yoyoyoI'd like to have a backup with me08:21
Stskeepsyoyoyo: any given nokia shop i guess08:22
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yoyoyoalso, I've been finding random chargers with microUSBs - some of them work - is this dangerous?08:22
yoyoyoStskeeps: ebay?08:22
yoyoyothey're like 5$...08:22
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cehtehshouldnt be too dangerous08:23
cehtehwell ebay isnt really trustworthy ..08:23
cehtehand these are prolly not very energy efficient or well regulated08:23
cehtehbetter spend $15 and get a proper one08:24
yoyoyois there one with a number or lable that I should get on ebay?08:24
yoyoyowhat about these stand alone chargers on ebay?08:24
yoyoyothat just charge the battery?08:24
cehtehmicrousb charging is actually standardized .. but some ignore the standard08:24
yoyoyoyeah, one didnt work, but two did08:25
cehtehwell at worst it can blow the battery ... so get a $5 battery with them08:25
luke-jryoyoyo: cmon, buying a battery used is just stupid…08:25
yoyoyoluke-jr, most are new on there08:25
yoyoyoeven the 4$ ones08:25
luke-jryoyoyo: bet they're fake08:25
cehtehif it doesnt blow a cheap battery then a quality battery should sustain it too :)08:25
luke-jrcehteh: erm, no08:25
luke-jrat worst it fries the N90008:26
cehtehluke-jr: i got a reasonable one for 10 euros08:26
cehtehluke-jr: the standalone battery chargers08:26
luke-jrworst case for those is an explosion I guess08:26
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cehtehbut well .. rarely happens08:26
yoyoyocehteh, one to recommend?08:26
luke-jrbut someone would be a real fool to try to sell an exploding charger IMO08:26
cehtehi'd expect less charge from a cheap battery and more wear08:27
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cehtehwhile the cheap one (i use it really rarely, one or two times already) isnt that shabby08:27
cehtehjust dont buy the cheapest 3$ battery08:27
luke-jryoyoyo: FYI, fake Nokia batteries are common08:27
luke-jryoyoyo: and not even Nokia can tell the difference sometimes08:28
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luke-jrwithout taking it apart, I mean08:28
cehtehi think best are replacment batteries which are $10-20 and dont try to be fake nokia but clearly state that they are replacement ones08:29
cehteh(trying pagarism for packaging and all costs little bit more and doesnt need the vendor to get some credentibility)08:29
* luke-jr wonders if there's any brand name for replacement Nokia-compatible batteries…08:29
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cehtehthis one i have here is X-Power 'for 5800'08:30
cehtehit gets recognized with about the same charge than  the normal one and maybe lasts 80-90% as the new one08:31
cehtehwhile my original one shows already signs of wear after half a year constant abuse08:31
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luke-jrcehteh: wait, it lasts 80-90% after how long?08:32
luke-jryou saying it's *better*?08:32
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cehtehas i saied i only used it a few times yet, sometimes batteries improve after the first few charge cycles and i cant really measure it because i use it when i am on the run ... different load settings08:33
yoyoyoso ebay, or where is the place tob uy08:33
cehtehfrom my feeling its seems to be about the same or just slightly worse ..08:33
* cehteh got his one from a local cheap mobile repair/acessory/whatever shop here in the city08:34
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yoyoyowhadya think?08:36
cehtehMultiple voltage output DC 4.2V 350mA ¡ª ¡À50mA USB 5.2Vd.c. 800mA08:37
cehteh.. the n900 wants up to 1.5A08:38
cehtehand iirc usb 5V are very tight specified not 4.2 and not 5.2V  .. the n900 will prolly survive that but its not enough for charging08:38
cehtehand i bet the battery plugged directly on it wont get charged with more08:39
cehtehalso it looks bulky, prolly an old transformer in it and not well regulated08:39
yoyoyothat's for the charger not the battery i think08:39
cehtehwell .. its your n900 and your battery08:40
cehtehliion batteries damaged easily (wearing out) when they get overcharged, no danger unless you do that excessively but they loose capacity08:41
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yoyoyowell if you cant paste me a product cehteh, i'll consider it - thanks08:53
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GNUtoo|laptopDocScrutinizer, hi, on the openmoko mailing list someone said meego will be fully free, does it means it's like AOSP, or will it be capable of running on the device?08:55
Stskeepshow do you define 'free'?08:55
GNUtoo|laptopaka free as in freedom, fsf definition08:56
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GNUtoo|laptop(freedom to copy,modify etc...)08:57
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DocScrutinizermail is down atm, sorry. Me's not up, sorry. And what's AOSP?08:58
GNUtoo|laptopandroid open source project08:59
GNUtoo|laptopbasically they use a trick08:59
DocScrutinizerplease read om-cdevel logs, I pasted ref to some meego src for you convenience08:59
GNUtoo|laptopthe trick is the following:09:00
GNUtoo|laptopAOSP is hosted on android.kernel.org09:00
GNUtoo|laptopAOSP is fully free but not complete09:00
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GNUtoo|laptopfor instance no gps,camera,telephony,audio libs for the devices are present09:00
StskeepsGNUtoo|laptop: well, for the n900 we will have battery management, sgx, wifi firmware and bt firmware as redistributable blobs. there are bits and pieces in meego that due to compliance (meego trademark) is restricted, but nothing stops you from replacing with your own09:01
Stskeepsrest is open source, gplv2, lgpl, bsd, mit, etc.09:01
GNUtoo|laptopwow only that?09:01
Stskeepswe'll have open telephony stack09:01
GNUtoo|laptopvoice calls will work?09:01
Stskeeps(that already works)09:01
Stskeepsjust not integrated yet09:02
GNUtoo|laptopah ok09:02
GNUtoo|laptopbattery can be replaced by a script09:02
GNUtoo|laptop3d can be avoided09:02
Stskeepsnot for UI09:02
GNUtoo|laptopfirmwares are firmwares09:02
luke-jrStskeeps: wait09:02
DocScrutinizerplease refer to the URLs I posted for you in #openmoko-cdevel last night09:02
GNUtoo|laptopI'll change the UI then09:02
luke-jrwhen did the firmwares get redistributable?09:02
GNUtoo|laptopI'll do09:02
Stskeepsluke-jr: we're working on those atm09:02
StskeepsGNUtoo|laptop: kernel is fully open source09:02
StskeepsGNUtoo|laptop: well, if you want to have a crippled UI, your choice..09:03
luke-jrGNUtoo|laptop: the UI requires GLES accel09:03
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GNUtoo|laptopI'll use illume then09:03
DocScrutinizer668   * Sends an UL frame using SSI audio interface 'sal'.09:03
luke-jrGNUtoo|laptop: any interest in helping with the Gentoo port? :P09:04
GNUtoo|laptopluke-jr, unfortunately no09:04
GNUtoo|laptopbut I think I'll help with SHR port09:04
GNUtoo|laptopwhich may help the gentoo port indirectly09:05
luke-jrwasn't aware SHR was porting09:05
luke-jrGNUtoo|laptop: more likely the inverse IMO09:05
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GNUtoo|laptopmorphis will be disapointed I bet09:06
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Stskeeps.. i don't see why bother with shr, personally09:08
rmrfchikhrw|gone: ping09:08
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DocScrutinizerbecause SHR doesn't use tracker :-P09:09
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* ToGgG__son Mozart - Eine kleine Nachtmusik K. 525 - Romance: Andante09:12
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer09:12
rmrfchikdoes anyone here know hrw's email?09:12
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q ToGgG__son!*@*09:12
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DocScrutinizerToGgG__son: ping me when you *really* got something to contribute09:13
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* johnx really can't parse spam these days09:13
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: he hardly passes turing test09:14
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: got the N900 all working now, but how can i force it to use specific wifi connections - it seems to randomly pick one09:15
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GNUtoo|laptopI'll go bye09:16
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johnxjpinx-eeepc, could you be a bit more specific?09:16
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jpinx-eeepcjohnx: I have it set to use wifi, I really don't waant to use the mobile network at all09:17
jpinx-eeepcI have several wap's here and I created accounts for them all09:17
jpinx-eeepcnow when I select a url in the browser it seems to just take any of those in no specific order09:18
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johnxyes. it will pick a wifi network, maybe by whichever it finds first or maybe by signal strength at that second09:18
johnxthen it won't roam unless it completely loses connection with the first09:18
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jpinx-eeepcjohnx: is tthere no way I can force it into one WAP rather than another?09:19
johnxheh, looks like ToGgG__son's brain exploded all over his keyboard09:19
jpinx-eeepcapart from disabling the WAP account09:20
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johnxjpinx-eeepc, you can pick one manually each time09:20
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jpinx-eeepcjohnx: that's the function I can't find ;)09:20
DocScrutinizer"always ask" I guess09:20
johnxclick the status bar, click internet connection, click the network you want09:21
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: it's on always ask09:21
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jpinx-eeepcjohnx: status bar? you mean across the top of the browser?09:22
johnxnah, the clock/battery icon area09:22
DocScrutinizerthe clock, colloq09:23
jpinx-eeepcah - silly me09:23
johnxthe thing that tells time09:23
jpinx-eeepcthanks johnx DocScrutinizer  :)09:23
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johnxwow, it must have been really frustrating to not have access to all that stuff in there :)09:24
jpinx-eeepcapart from having to put my fingertips into a pencil sharpener - it's an awesome beastie - now going to install pidgin if I can09:24
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johnxbefore you install pidgin, you might want to look at the set of plugins that add functionality to the built-in IM client09:25
jpinx-eeepcand maybe play with the debian in a chroot thingie09:25
jpinx-eeepcjohnx: oh- ok09:25
DocScrutinizerimteresting advice09:26
DocScrutinizereasy-deb instea of pidgin :-P09:26
johnxDocScrutinizer, what?09:26
jpinx-eeepcbasically I was going to mees in the chroot and see if something like bitlbee will run in that and connect to irssi running in the native os09:27
DocScrutinizerpassive ETAB09:27
jpinx-eeepcsorry - I said pidgin - I meant bitlbee09:27
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: first results off google for "instea": Menstrual Cups, Period Products, Feminine & Menstruation Products09:27
* DocScrutinizer throws a bagful of * and ? at crashanddie09:28
DocScrutinizeruse them wisely09:28
Corsacis there some “wtf” available?09:30
DocScrutinizer~wtf wtf09:30
infobotWTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck09:30
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is nice coffee09:31
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DocScrutinizermh, the nice one is out, bye09:32
Corsac~wtf DocScrutinizer09:32
infobotGee...  I don't know what DocScrutinizer means...09:32
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Corsac~wtf the fuck that09:33 not working with ubuntu 1009:33
infobotusage: wtf <foo>.09:33
DocScrutinizer~ DocScrutinizer5109:33
DocScrutinizer~ DocScrutinizer09:33
infoboti heard docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko09:33
Corsac~wtf "the fuck that"09:33
infobotusage: wtf <foo>.09:33
Corsac~wtf the%20fuck%20that09:33
infobotusage: wtf <foo>.09:33
* Corsac cries09:33
DocScrutinizer~redhat Corsac09:34
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DocScrutinizer~debian Corsac09:34
* infobot tells Corsac to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!09:34
binceany one knws y the is not working with ubuntu 10 ???09:35
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: is there any particular rationale why Nokia 'proprietary' stuff now opened up for meego still remains closed for maemo?09:47
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jpinx-eeepcwill a usb keyboard work?09:50
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i think it's more of a practical concern.. in the release process nokia employs i doubt there's chance to have some of the more seperating patches to be approved as changes09:50
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DocScrutinizerbut thanks for the answer :-)09:51
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: and the traditional way to release sources is through the sdk releases which follow device contents..09:52
Stskeepsthe other side is that sometimes modifications/refactoring is needed to satisfy legal concerns09:52
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johnxjpinx-eeepc, someone was working on USB host, but it would require flashing a new kernel I believe09:53
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Stskeepsat the cost of not opening source at all if not done, i think it's fair to do it this way :P09:53
DocScrutinizerhmm, still I don't completely get it when hildon-desktop, multimedia etc are on but not on mxr09:53
jpinx-eeepcjohnx: just reading thea09:53
DocScrutinizerwhile (C) clearly says Nokia09:53
jpinx-eeepcthat now09:53
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jpinx-eeepcOoops, sorry for the brainfarts there09:54
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: hostmode still WIP and a PoC at best09:54
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: report a bug09:54
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johnxwow, that looks a little crazier than host on the N80009:58
johnxbut thankfully not as crazy as on the 77009:58
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Corsacbwarf, ovi files shutting down09:59
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johnxbut that's why I pay for a xen slice on a fast connection :)10:00
cehtehstill no one made a scp sharing plugin :P10:02
johnxyeah, but I just use sshfs10:02
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johnxscp would be pretty neat though10:03
cehtehme too10:03
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cehtehbut a sharing api frontend for scp or rsync would be nice10:03
johnxespecially if it did the full-on avahi broadcast to find local ssh servers10:03
johnxyou laugh, but ubuntu seems to be doing it10:04
* johnx verifies before he looks silly10:04
cehtehi dont use buntu10:04
cehtehbut well .. sounds reasonable for them10:04
johnxmaybe I should have s/ubuntu/nautilus/10:05
* DocScrutinizer scratches head, sips coffee, and wonders where he lost the thread10:05
johnxbut of course now I don't see it happening ...10:05
johnxDocScrutinizer, avahi (aka bonjour aka zeroconf aka mdns) is a neat way of discovering services available on the local network10:06
cehtehso you search for all sshd's and try to login, just in case the user isnt sure :P10:06
johnxyou can use it to 'advertise' pretty much any service, AFAICT10:06
DocScrutinizerI hate it, regardless of wondering how it's related10:06
cehtehhehe i hate it too10:06
luke-jrme too10:06
luke-jrwhat are we hatin?10:07
johnxcehteh, I actually picture the use-case as being at a convention and being able to send files quickly to another user on the local wifi network10:07
luke-jro i c10:07
johnxI like it well enough when it works10:07
cehtehjohnx: not ssh then10:07
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cehtehpublishing a rsyncd may make sense10:07
johnxyeah, you have a point10:07
johnxshell access is overkill10:07
johnxthe bluetooth-wifi hybrid looked nicest, IMHO, but I don't know what it would take to implement or whether it's somehow hardware dependent10:08
DocScrutinizerjohnx: wasn't that what obex push was all about?10:08
johnxDocScrutinizer, exactly, but bluetooth is a bit slow10:09
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DocScrutinizerbah, obex is transport agnostic aiui10:09
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jpinx-eeepcI can't get the bluetooth running in my eeepc or I could use that to ssh in and admin the n90010:11
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DocScrutinizerthere's been obex over irda, obex over bt, and I don't see why obex over wlan should work any different10:11
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johnxyou mean, like obex over IP or obex over the wifi 'physical' layer?10:12
DocScrutinizerobex over IP obviously10:12
johnxah, well then I can tell you why it would work differently ...10:13
DocScrutinizersorry, not yet completely on nominal RPM, wetwarewise10:13
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johnxbut I think I have seen obex over IP. I just don't know about the 'discovery' phase. I guess just broadcast ...10:14
DocScrutinizerwhat's tha p2p mode on wifi called? (burp, wish the coffe would kick in)10:15
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fluxdocscrutinizer, ad-hoc?10:16
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hrwsorry RST38h10:19
DocScrutinizermaybe would need a bit lowlevel, as for IP addr aren't exactly trivial on ad-hoc aiui (meh, prolly that's the point where avahi came in here), but other than that little inconvenience adhoc seems quite siuted for obex10:19
DocScrutinizerhrw: you're triggering my spambot alarms10:19
johnxcommonly, devices use a link-local IP when on ad-hoc without a dhcp server10:20
RST38hmoo hrw10:20
johnxbut I think it's bigger than a /2410:20
hrwDocScrutinizer: thats problem of your spambot10:20
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RST38hheya johnx, Doc10:20
johnxmornin' RST38h :D10:20
johnxheard you were coming out here to visit10:20
DocScrutinizermoo RST38h10:21
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rmrfchikhrw: ok, and what your names? ;)10:21
hrwrmrfchik: that part is left for you10:21
hrwrmrfchik: there are many ways of checking it10:21
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johnxI think his full name is "HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH"10:22
hrwrmrfchik: took me <minute to do google search using my nickname + keyword related to this irc channel.10:22
rmrfchik whois much faster10:23
hrwthats the simplest way10:23
hrwrmrfchik: but why you need my email?10:23
* DocScrutinizer sighs10:23
rmrfchikhrw: well, this part of puzzle I left to you ;)10:24
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DocScrutinizerIsn't it quite funny how freenet manages to use up 40% of the transatlantic datacables' capacity, by connecting vast majority of european users to US located servers like in Wisconsin or, while US and australian users generally connect to located in FRA10:28
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: it's because of all the stupid clients going to the central pool10:29
Stskeepsor non-geo locating dns10:29
johnxStskeeps, ur just makin that up. what do u know about IRC?10:29
* johnx runs10:29
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Stskeepsjohnx: it's all been erased10:30
jacekowskii'm connected to jordan.freenode.net10:30
jacekowskibut i've got no idea where is it10:30
johnx(that was really hard. I kept mistyping ur ...)10:30
ieatlinti doubt freenode users account for a measurable fraction of bandwidth use across the transatlantic tubes10:31
ebzzryWhen composing an SMS, is there a way to make the Enter key (of the physical keyboard) send the SMS instead of inserting a Newline?10:31
nid0jacekowski: whats being shipped?10:31
jacekowskinid0: device10:31
jacekowskibut why it got to england yesterday10:31
jacekowskithen back to US10:31
jacekowskiand now back in england10:31
nid0remembering to empty the plane before refilling it and send it back *is* hard10:32
ieatlintjacekowski: UPS's fucked up system records local time only methinks10:32
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: check your MOTD in IRC10:32
ieatlintmy guess is you're looking at some hilarious issue where time zones are causing bullshit order of events10:32
nid0nah, the timezones being local do match up for it going back to the states again10:32
jacekowskiieatlint: well, yesterday i looked and it was just east midlands airport10:33
DocScrutinizer[2010-09-02 06:33:41] [MOTD] - Welcome to in Washington, DC, US, kindly sponsored by10:33
DocScrutinizer[2010-09-02 06:33:41] [MOTD] - Team Cymru (
jacekowskiieatlint: then other stuff appeared10:33
jacekowskinothing in motd about location10:33
jacekowskiunless i'm blind10:34
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johnxDocScrutinizer, awesome, so I'm connected to france as well, but to a different host there. hilariously, 60%+ of my hops are inside the US though10:34
jacekowski04:56 -!- - Welcome to in Evry, FR, EU.10:34
jacekowskifor me it's local host10:34
ieatlinti'm connected to an oregon server that isn't that far from me really10:34
ieatlintjust about 2k km north :P10:34
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johnxso, how would I tell xchat "Do a better job at picking a server close to you"10:36
jacekowskiyou don't10:37
jacekowskiit's not xchat doing it10:37
jacekowskiit's freenode loadbalancer10:37
Stskeepsif they have one..10:38
X-FadeJust connect to a node close to you and don't look back?10:38
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: explicitly provide the particular server url, rather than irc.freenode.org10:38
* johnx tests something10:38
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DuckbootThe loadbalancer probably is round-robin10:39
johnxthe answer is, connect to a regional server, such as
DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing like a loadbalancer10:39
DuckbootDocScrutinizer: "There is no spoon"10:39
DuckbootWild guess: Round-robin DNS10:40
johnxoooh, irvine, CA10:40
johnxmuch better10:40
ieatlintyou've clearly never been to irvine if you think that10:41
DocScrutinizerthere's just what you get from `host -a`10:41
johnxieatlint, my packets have. does that count?10:41
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well i clearly remember somebody on #freenode stating that freenode doesn't do simple round robin10:41
ieatlinti'm connected through central oregon but am closer to irvine, and vise-versa for you10:42
ieatlintit makes sense10:42
johnxwe could switch. but you do it first10:42
ieatlinti'm happier sending my packets north than south10:42
johnxat least mine get to travel downhill all the way there10:42
ieatlintthose southern bastards took our water, they're not getting my packets10:43
nid0jacekowski: it would seem it does, simply resolves to about 20 different addresses10:43
* johnx writes that one down to explain to users why it's faster to send email south, should really make his own BOFH calendar one day10:43
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ieatlintbe sure to quote ted stevens in that explanation10:44
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johnx"just like water flowing downhill, when you send the email truck south through the tubes, it doesn't have to work as hard."10:45
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johnxI also tell people not to tilt their laptops or the data will fall off the hard drive10:48
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Duckbootjohnx: If you tilt it, and hold it over a bucket, you have backup?10:49
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johnxnah, cause some of the bits are 'sticky' and they'll stay on the HD10:50
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TermanaN900hey hey10:53
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johnxhey TermanaN90010:54
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KhertanMorning all10:56
johnxmornin' Khertan10:56
johnxyou here to take the next shift from me? :)10:56
Khertanjohnx: ?10:57
johnxI mean, you always arrive when I'm about to go to sleep :)10:57
JaffaMorning, all10:57
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Khertanah ... héhé10:57
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KhertanMorning Jaffa10:58
johnxhi Jaffa10:59
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ebzzryI'm sorry to butt in again, but how can I make the return key send sms instead of inserting a newline?11:03
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johnxebzzry, can't really test easily. have you tried holding ctrl or shift while hitting enter?11:07
johnxanyways, time to catch some sleep11:10
johnx'night all11:10
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KhertanAn user of Khweeteur said me that copy/paste aren't working in Khweeteur ... and isn't working in any qt apps running on his n90011:18
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Khertansomeone already heard of a similar trouble ,11:19
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DocScrutinizernight johnx11:21
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Artem_Hello. Is there any way to use networking software (web browser, Skype) via usb network connection?11:23
Artem_yep, I own N810.11:23
kerioset up usb network11:24
Artem_I've set it. When I'm starting Skype, it tries to bring up wireless network11:24
StskeepsArtem_: if you use a icd plugin /dummy plugin it won't bother you11:25
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Artem_Sorry, what kind of plugin is it?11:29
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Artem_could you pls provide me a link with its description, etc ?11:29
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Artem_Thanks, I'll try it.11:31
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lcukmorning \o11:35
Khertanyouhou ... before pythontidy ... pylint score 2.53, after pythontidy pylint score : 0.5311:36
Khertannice beautifier :)11:36
Khertanmorning lcuk11:36
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fralsmornin lcuk, Khertan o/11:39
Khertanmorning frals11:40
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: morning11:44
lcukheya chaps11:44
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* lcuk saw something last night I didn't expect11:52
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lcukno, I saw composited yuv stuff (I believe anyway, it mightv been a trick of the light)11:58
lcukbut boobies wouldv been better11:58
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scp1composited boobies12:05
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lcukscp1, that sounds more like photoshop12:08
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lcukKhertan, did twitter api change so drastically then12:09
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lcukor has the auth system been there for a while12:10
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Justusis it possible to turn up the volume further than it is allowed by default?12:13
jpinx-eeepcIn my N900 -  call up a webpage that needs a login user/pwd combo, select the text area and the virtual kbd comes up, type in the username, hit return, and it takes that as a login attempt, I can not find a way to get back to the webpage/close the virtual kbd without hitting return. Any help please ?12:14
Justusthere is a small ^ somewhere on your keyboard, hit that and it will close down, alternatively clicking out of the area of the keyboard should suffice to close it12:15
Khertanlcuk: the new auth system was present since a long time12:15
Khertanlcuk: but oauth is a real pain to use12:15
jpinx-eeepcJustus: thnks but that loses the input I have just typed12:15
Khertanlcuk: it s require to open a web page ... to get the credential ... and user copy paste the auth keys12:15
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jpinx-eeepcJustus: ok - I think I have it now - but how do I accept the predictive offering?12:19
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Justusjpinx-eeepc: please explain that, I honestly don't know what you mean with predictive offering12:21
jpinx-eeepcwhen I am typing it will predict what I am typing, if it's correct, how do I accept it?12:21
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JustusI don't have my device here right now and I don't know the answer, I usually use the hw-keyboard12:23
ZuccaAnyone got sshfs working on N900?12:23
scp1zucca, yes12:23
jpinx-eeepcJustus: ok thanks mate - I'm off out now anyway and i'll get back to it later :)12:24
Zuccascp1: Did you just install it or does it require any tricks?12:24
scp1just installed it.12:24
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Zuccascp1: Then there's something wrong with my settings...12:25
scp1how come?12:25
Zuccascp1: From which repo did you install it?12:25
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scp1no idea. I'm not friends with apt yet :<12:25
Zuccascp1: Ok. Neither am I. :D12:25
Justusok, I'll try my problem once again: is it possible to boost the N900 speakers louder than they can get by default? Is there an amplifier plugin or something? I googled for a while but found nothing12:26
Zuccascp1: I have added diablo repo to my list because I need some of those packages too...12:26
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scp1zucca, Filename: pool/fremantle/free/s/sshfs-fuse/sshfs_2.0-2maemo2_armel.deb12:27
DocScrutinizerJustus: generally not. Also there's some speaker protection that will limit speaker volume12:28
ZuccaJustus: Why do you need more volume? Anyways if it is possible, I wouldn't recommend it.12:28
scp1zucca, what's the actual problem?12:28
JustusIt's simple, my HF-200 is broken, and now I need something that I can at least use12:29
Zuccascp1: mount reports a problem withing it's subprocess. Cannot find a directory. I've double checked all the things. I'll reinstall sshfs now and disable diablo (for good).12:29
scp1zucca, mount? you should not use mount12:29
scp1zucca, sshfs -p port user@host: mountpoint12:30
Zuccascp1: I use sshfs command, but it uses mount.12:30
DocScrutinizerJustus: in digital domain all audio media is supposed to be maximum volume, and so all volume control sliders work to attenuate volume only. There's rarely any plugin or whatever that can actually boost.12:30
scp1zucca, fwiw, I am using diablo as well12:31
scp1and a shitload of other repos12:31
JustusDocScrutinizer: well, than thanks anyway for the answer :(12:31
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Zuccascp1: Me too. But the file path you gave earlier was from fremantle repo. I need to at least try this...12:32
scp1btw - Jenirok is probably the greatest app ever12:32
DocScrutinizerJustus: if you'd other to elaborate on your particular problem, chances are you get better advice than when asking a question based on many assumptions12:33
DocScrutinizers/ oth/ both/12:33
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: Justus: if you'd bother to elaborate on your particular problem, chances are you get better advice than when asking a question based on many assumptions12:33
scp1lol, nice.12:33
scp1s/ n.ce\./cool!/12:34
Sceltthat's corny, T-rex!12:35
Scelts/that's c/i'm h/12:35
infobotScelt meant: i'm horny, T-rex!12:35
scp1meh. my RE was valid!12:36
scp1s/meh. //12:36
infobotscp1 meant: my RE was valid!12:36
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DocScrutinizerinfobot doesn't use RE12:39
infobotkerio meant: ~botsnack12:40
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svuorelawin 2612:43
thomasvsis there a way from an application to add a button that makes a call to a given number ?12:43
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Khertanthomasvs: yes12:44
thomasvsKhertan: sweet - where should I dig to find that ?12:44
Khertanthomasvs: use dbus12:44
thomasvsaha, interesting.  any examples of that, preferably in python ?12:44
thomasvsKhertan: sweet, that looks good!12:46
thomasvsKhertan: that page seems to say telepathy is a preferred way ?12:46
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Khertanexcept for phone calls12:49
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Zuccascp1: I downloaded the .deb package of sshfs by hand and tried to install it with dpkg. It seems that it needs some fuse packages from devel repos. I don't want to add delvel repos to my system, so I just have to wait. :)12:53
scp1zucca, chicken :p12:53
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Zuccascp1: Athough I could download all the fuse packages by hand and install them too... I'll just use USB cable for file access now. I had an idea to use dbus-scripts to mount my home directory on my server when there was a connection opened.12:57
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lcukKhertan, for every app it needs the same?13:03
lcukor are you doing something wrong?13:03
dnearyAttila said "I feel many take for granted"... it seems to me like, on the contrary, people have already turned the page and are either getting behind MeeGo or turning to Android...13:03
dnearyHow do others here feel?13:03
scp1I'm not leaving13:03
Stskeepsdneary: i still wear tshirts13:04
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scp1stskeeps, does that give you more girls?13:04
Stskeepsscp1: i'm married, doesn't matter13:04
scp1oh, I'm so sorry13:04
lcuknotice, he evaded the question ;)13:04
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lcukdneary, no attila is correct13:05
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lcuktheres a lot of maemo activity13:05
Stskeepsdneary: but there has been an astonishing silence of how to deal with the new circumstances and even current ones .. and that building a new community from scratch can be good for better or worse13:05
lcukStskeeps, the intent of meego was not to build a new community from scratch was it13:05
dnearylcuk: It seems that way13:06
lcukelse it would have been a new initiative - however people still have real feelings about compatability and purpose13:06
Stskeepslcuk: no, but i think that might have been a good idea to not transfer all the skeletons in the closet13:06
dnearyStskeeps, I agree...13:06
dnearyBut then again, do you know why champaign has bubbles?13:06
Stskeepsgoes quicker to the brain?13:07
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dnearyThe carbon dioxide in the champaign builds up on imperfections in the glass until it reaches critical size, and then turns into a bubble & goes to the surface13:07
dnearyIf the glass were perfect, champaign wouldn't be fizzy13:07
Khertanlcuk: ?13:07
dnearyThe imperfections give the gas opportunities to gather & make champaign what it is13:08
MNZdneary, and is the fizzyness a good thing?13:08
dneary(don't worry, there *is* a point to this)13:08
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nid0MNZ yes generally, the bubbles concentrate the flavour quite heavily13:08
dnearyIn MeeGo there have not been a huge number of opportunities so far to make a meaningful impact13:08
Stskeepsi feel a 'big crack in the glass' analogy coming up13:08
dnearyNo imperfections to hang on to13:09
dnearyStskeeps, On the contrary13:09
dnearyAside from the ARM group (which is a good place for Maemo developers to go, I imagine - you can confirm that)13:09
dnearyit's been hard to get any purchase on anything coming out of an individual effort.13:10
dnearyStskeeps, How's the conference paper selection going, by the way?13:10
Stskeepsdneary: forward.. 200 pages of text13:10
dnearyI wrote to Dirk to suggest that you leave a slot for lightning talks (potentially plenary) and I volunteered to co-ordinate them13:10
Stskeepsdneary: if it was to his intel mail i can almost guarantee he didn't see it13:11
Stskeepsdneary: i'll keep it in mind though13:11
dnearyStskeeps, Why?13:11
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Stskeeps(he's on sabbatical so not on mail)13:11
dnearyI guess I could re-send to meego-community to get wider distribution13:11
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dnearyStskeeps, Weren't you due to send notifications for talks this week?13:15
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lcukStskeeps, even if the gtk side were put to one side, an effort to see Maemo applications on Meego would do wonders to boost things13:22
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lcuktake for instance Miniature - quims cheerleading qt app13:23
lcukto show the cross compatability thats been shouted muchly for the last however long in action13:23
lcukbut we know from Mer experience that you get help from members once they can see their creations appear13:24
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Stskeepslcuk: the beginning of this is when opens13:28
Stskeepslcuk: and we start having an extras-devel..13:28
lcukthe beginning of this is showing a single app working13:29
lcukand so far the first community app i have seen is from gtk13:29
Khertankhteditor should run on meego ... when pyqt4 binding will be available13:31
Khertanshould be the case for Khweeteur too13:31
Khertanjust need the binding13:31
lcukindeed Khertan and trying and seeing is important!13:32
lcukKhertan, would it work also on the netbook image?13:32
lcukdoes that already have bindings?13:33
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Khertanlcuk: it should ... but there is no binding too13:34
Khertani ve already tryed :)13:34
lcukcan you run non UI python on both?13:36
nid0anyone got 5 minutes and their device handy?13:36
lcuknid0, just ask and people may or may not poke13:38
lcuki have been looking at some meta package type things recently13:38
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lcukand thinking about the recent maemo coding competition13:39
nid0could just do with someone loading up the new version of qthello from testing, wouldnt mind seeing if it's p2p network mode actually works properly13:39
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lcukwould a meta package containing all the competition entrants be something you guys would want to install13:39
lcuk(thinking in part for the next one actually)13:39
lcuknid0, how does it do p2p stuff?13:40
lcukdoes it use tubes?13:40
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lcuknid0, also the small q in qthello makes it read like "qt hello"13:41
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nid0(it's not my package, im just testing it)13:42
lcukit was only once I clicked on the build and saw it was to be read as "Qthello" (cos its othello) that was meaning.  nice play on it though :)13:42
nid0but its meant to be an othello and qt play on words i guess :p13:42
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Venemohi guys13:44
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lcuk\o Venemo13:49
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Venemoo7 lcuk13:50
Venemolcuk, I'm happy there are no software patents in Europe13:51
Venemolcuk: look at this:,788,474.PN.&OS=PN/7,788,474&RS=PN/7,788,47413:51
Venemolcuk: how ridiculous is that?13:51
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lcukVenemo, idk, not something i tend to notice13:52
Venemoms has just patented the shutdown mechanism of an OS13:53
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keriowait, what13:55
lcukhow come #symbian only has 40odd people13:55
lcukwhere do symbianites hang out?13:55
keriothere are probably 40odd people happy with symbian, you know13:56
Venemolcuk: ask those 40 people13:56
lcukno, theres many more13:56
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (an effort to see Maemo applications) seems to me I used almost same words on same topic, some weeks ago13:56
nid0lcuk, from a dev pov theres also on efnet13:57
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lcukyeah i suppose nid0 ta for that13:58
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lcukDocScrutinizer, its been talked about for a lot longer than that14:00
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Venemogoodbye guys, I have to go now14:03
DocScrutinizeriirc my suggestion back then was Nokia should finally implement a proper navigation app (aka ovi maps 2) on **maemo**,  so showing both dedication to maemo community and faith in easy portability14:03
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DocScrutinizeras additional benefit they can have proper maps on "zero day"14:05
DocScrutinizeron any future meego device14:05
DocScrutinizercommunity developers witnessing that for sure feel more temped to give meego a try14:06
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DocScrutinizer( s/portability/migration to meego/ )14:07
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darkschneiderand hello all, from yesterday another user/developer (via N900).14:08
DocScrutinizerwelcome :-D14:08
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darkschneiderthanks :-D14:10
lcukDocScrutinizer, wheres the wikipage showing outline/spec/comparison for a map app and current candidates14:11
DocScrutinizerduh, no idea what you are talking bout :-)14:11
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SpeedEvilIs this the page to which you refuer lcuk?14:12
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DocScrutinizerat least it's the only one I ever heard of14:13
lcukSpeedEvil, thats closest its from the mailing list14:13
SpeedEvilI know14:14
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lcukwell spotted though, its easy for threads there to get buried14:14
DocScrutinizerMNZ: you got your project started?14:16
DocScrutinizer(I'd like to join)14:16
MNZyeah, approved, but I haven't uploaded anything yet because I have to go somewhere with a good connection :/14:16
DocScrutinizerthe name was?14:17
MNZI get disconnected if I try to upload anything more than 400-500kb :/14:17
MNZoh sorry14:17
MNZthat's admin14:17
MNZI'm thinking of just uploading patches and be done with it, instead of the entire kernel14:19
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* DocScrutinizer hopes his mail server will recover any time soon14:20
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nid0why break it?14:21
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Stskeepswb dneary14:22
lcukupdate from the sudser author, he now has an N900 and will test and modify/release as required :)14:24
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jacekowskianybody knows how security on meego will look?14:26
jacekowskias bad as maemo?14:26
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MNZDocScrutinizer, I'm new to this garage thing, what's an appropriate 'role' for you?14:27
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you really think such details are part of the current specs or work?14:28
DocScrutinizerMNZ: no idea. usually developer, I guess14:28
DocScrutinizer(also new :-D)14:28
X-FadeMNZ: As long as you don't make yourself anything else than admin ;)14:29
jacekowskiehh, i'm wasting another day14:29
X-FadeOtherwise you'll lock yourself out :)14:29
jacekowskiis it thursday?14:29
MNZX-Fade, ah thanks for the hint14:29
jacekowskiwow, it's friday tomorrow14:30
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DocScrutinizerORLY? o.O14:30
nid0yay, my weekend starts in 5 hours14:30
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DocScrutinizerso... maybe...14:31
jacekowskiehhh, i've opened 15M .exe14:31
jacekowski20 minutes ago14:31
jacekowskiand IDA is still processing it14:31
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DocPyrotizermeh, 36h til fireworks14:35
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lcukDocScrutinizer, i have spent the morning thinking its friday14:36
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SpeedEvillcuk: don't go to bed, and you can continue thinking that for another 36 hours14:36
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lcukSpeedEvil, but then i would sleep all weekend14:37
lcukhibernation: its not just for bears.14:37
nid0sounds like a good use of a weekend to me14:38
DocScrutinizersleep is overrated anyway14:41
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mintuxI need f11 keyboard in a application .how can I use it. what key does that ?14:49
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koala_manwhich app is that? scummvm or something?14:50
mintuxgoogle chrome14:51
mintuxfor full screen14:51
SpeedEvilThere is no f1114:51
mintuxso why google chrome has this ? in maemo if there is no f11 ?14:52
lcukdidn't the N810 used to give F11 when you pressed fullscreen hard key?14:53
lcukor was that mapped to something else again14:53
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mintuxand another question is . how can create custom shortcut on desktop ?14:55
JaffaSigh. Morning over. New joiners settled. Ishl14:56
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DocScrutinizerif that was a proper kbd mapping and driver setup, I'd say try shift-F1, which in turn should break down to esc,Fn+Shift+Q15:03
lcukholy hell, a 5ghz cpu15:04
MohammadAG51i've seen 615:04
DocScrutinizermintux: of course you're free to remap your kbd to meet your needs15:05
lcukJaffa, its not the easiest thing15:05
MohammadAG51lcuk, crashanddie the database wasn't/isn't corrupt15:05
lcukMohammadAG51, oooh15:05
lcukwhat then15:05
MohammadAG51the whole partition was15:05
MohammadAG51nothing was lost, except a few avatars15:05
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MohammadAG51copied back the same "corrupt" file, conversations loaded it fine15:06
MohammadAG51(after reflashing)15:06
MohammadAG51plus my /home is 3GBs now :p15:06
lcukheh awesome15:06
lcukglad its working15:06
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: heh, nice :-D15:06
Jaffalcuk: Not when there's other work to do15:07
MohammadAG51need to start using rsync though15:07
MohammadAG51osso-backup failed yesterday15:07
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MohammadAG51it needs tar, which was a stale NFS handle15:07
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: you could have offered a  spare tar to osso-backup, by installing it somewhere else (NAND?) and including to head of $PATH15:08
MohammadAG51so umm, rsync synchronizes files, it doesn't copy the same files over and over again right?15:08
lcukjaffa thats always the way15:08
MohammadAG51the NAND was kinda f'd DocScrutinizer15:09
lcukhow many have you been training up15:09
DocScrutinizerooh thought the eMMC was borked15:09
MohammadAG51i had to use dbus to answer a call15:09
MohammadAG51both lol15:09
MohammadAG51tar is part of busybox15:09
mintuxhow to create shortcut for custom command on desktop?15:09
MohammadAG51i'm not sure how busybox started15:09
MohammadAG51gnutar was dead15:09
kerioit was probably in a pub after lots of alcohol15:09
lcukmintux, queen beecon or the desktop execution widget let you do stuff like that15:09
lcukbut in general you would need a .desktop file to make a menu item15:10
lcukthen add that15:10
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mintuxwhere is .desktop file15:11
DocScrutinizeryeah, it's called 'programming' ;-P15:11
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drizztbsd (I love n900 :D)15:15
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Iridosthe 'Fn' and Enter key have stopped working on my N810 - I can hear clicks when they're pressed, but the actions are not executed... any idea what could cause this.... or how to find out?15:41
SpeedEvilHave you spilled soup on it?15:41
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MohammadAGsee if evkey sees them15:41
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Iridosnot noticeably so, no15:42
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Iridosthe soup, that is15:43
Iridosno coffee, either15:43
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Iridosanyway, the keys as such work, else they wouldn't produce the clicking sound via the speaker15:43
Iridoswhat package is evkey in?15:44
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Iridosthe only unusual thing softwarewise was that the root filesystem was full and I had to uninstall some things15:44
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MNZwhat's a "Release Name" in garage?15:52
MNZwhen I'm adding a new file15:52
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scp1 :)15:53
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IridosMohammadAG, where do I get evkey from?15:54
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MohammadAGhmm, somewhere on qwerty12's places15:55
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MohammadAGprolly freemoe15:55
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Stskeepssomeone ought to sue the neopwn guy for copyright infringement..16:17
SpeedEvilI'm unsure.16:18
SpeedEvilI mean - devreloping stuff is often not free.16:18
SpeedEvilAnd tehre are far, far worsre rthings out there.16:18
Stskeepstaking a kernel driver, doing modifications, publishing binary, and on top of it, demanding donations/pay? :P16:18
SpeedEvilIIRC he's specifically stated that when costs are recovered he's opensourcing it.16:18
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Stskeepsexcept both you and me know gpl doesn't work like that ..16:18
SpeedEvilWhile this isn't ideal...16:18
SpeedEvilIn principle, both are equally as bad.16:19
Stskeepsthe moment he distributed a .ko people can ask him for source16:19
SpeedEvilIn practice, shipping a hundred thousand routers with no GPL mention, and stonewalling on GPL requirements is a far bigger and more egregious offeence.16:19
Stskeepsprobably, but it's the same kind of practice16:20
Stskeepsjust larger scale16:20
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Stskeepseither way, what do i care..16:21
SpeedEvilOh - I agree.16:21
SpeedEvilAlso - I thought of a wrinkle in GPL.16:21
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SpeedEvilIf you ship to your user source - on an encryted filesystem. You then on the first boot compile this source. Are you in fact required to give out that source?16:22
SpeedEvilYou're not distributing the binary.16:22
Stskeepsnot bad16:23
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koala_manSpeedEvil: you're distributing the software, and you're doing it in a format not customarily used for information exchange16:24
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lcukStskeeps, SpeedEvil how do either of you know that he has distributed binaries?16:26
lcukand hearsay even from him is not the same as him actually giving out binaries16:26
lcukand you having them16:26
MohammadAGlcuk, debs in a package, no source16:27
lcukat the point of infringement you can contact the maintainer (cc the EFF into it) and see what happens16:27
lcukhave you got the package?16:27
lcukup until that point, anything is merely publicity16:27
Stskeepslcuk: maintainer probably doesn't own copyright, nokia does :)16:28
MohammadAGis cron easy to use?16:29
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SpeedEvilkoala_man: The 'customarily used' terms only apply to binaries.16:30
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nid0MohammadAG: yes16:30
SpeedEvilkoala_man: Indeed section 3 of GPL2 entirely drops out16:30
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koala_manSpeedEvil: ah. well, in any case, 'The “source code” for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it.' and an encrypted fs is not the preferred form16:31
SpeedEvilkoala_man: But the encrypted source is solely to avoid clause 3 applying.16:32
lcukStskeeps, ok reasonable enough distinction for contacting the copyright owner afterwards, however you contact the maintainer to request the source officially.16:32
MNZkoala_man, yes it is not the preferred form because he is not distributing the source but merely avoiding distributing the binary16:33
lcukthe maintainer of a GPL package does not need to publish the source on a website16:33
koala_manSpeedEvil: it's in executable form. it can't boot if it's not executable16:33
lcukhe must however make it available upon request16:33
koala_mannever mind it semi-JITing most of its code16:33
lcukand an official request which includes EFF would be a damned good way to do it16:33
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wazdlet's check apple audio updates :)16:33
wazdhello everyone :)16:34
SpeedEvilkoala_man: You provide source of the kernel, and gzip, and gcc, and every part of the toolchain you're using to compile the source.16:34
SpeedEvilkoala_man: You do not provide copies of the GPLd source that you have distributed encrypted. You do put a copyright license saying it's GPL - as you have to in clause 1.16:34
koala_manSpeedEvil: ie you distribute the source of the fs decryptor?16:35
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SpeedEvilkoala_man: yes - but not the keys16:35
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MNZactually, you don't have to distribute the decryption source if you wrote it. more obfuscation16:35
koala_manwithout the it can't be booted16:35
SpeedEvilAnd of course, if anyone can get the source out - they are entitled to a licence.16:35
SpeedEvilMNZ: Indeed.16:36
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SpeedEvilkoala_man: For example - a DVD player with mplayer as a component that you want to avoid releasing your patches to mplayer. There would be a stock GCC, and linux kernel and dmcrypt/... This you would all release. You then have encrypted source that compiles on first boot. This you do not release.16:37
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koala_mansounds like the tivoization problem16:37
koala_manwhich is a flaw in gpl216:38
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wazdverdict: Touch is glossy again, nano - eeeeew, shuffle - cool16:38
wazdcya next year :)16:38
SpeedEvilIt's sort-of, but more aggressive, in that it allows you to distribute hacked-on GPL code without giving out sources. Tivoisation doesn't do this - it just prevents the user adding srtuff.16:39
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koala_mangpl3 has solved it in both cases16:40
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SpeedEvilkoala_man: In what manner? A quick skim of 3 indicates that it does not. The 'conveying non-source forms' - term - which seems to be the only place you are required to give out source - are not triggered, as you are conveying source.16:42
koala_manSpeedEvil: doesn't clause 4 apply here? you're not distributing source, you're not distributing object code, so then you can't distribute it according to the license16:42
koala_manSpeedEvil: an encrypted fs is not the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it.16:43
SpeedEvilkoala_man: Section 4 kicks in - yes - if you mean v3 - you need to give the GPL copyright notices.16:43
koala_manI meant v216:43
koala_man"You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program except as expressly provided under this License. "16:44
lcukkoala_man, where is the clause about it being preferred form for modifications16:44
koala_manlcuk: in v316:45
SpeedEvilkoala_man: But as far as I see - distributing encrypted source is not a violation of the GPL.16:45
lcuki was under the impression printed copies are acceptable16:45
SpeedEvilkoala_man: As long as you do the copyright notices and ... along with it16:45
keriouse a tiny font and pass everything through a fax16:45
koala_manlcuk: ah, that is in 316:45
koala_manin v216:45
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SpeedEvil1.  You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it, in any medium,16:46
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SpeedEvilCompany A gives company B an encrypted sourceball16:46
koala_manI see your point16:47
SpeedEvilCompany B incorporates that in their product - along with GPL notices that it's based on GPL sourcecode.16:47
SpeedEvilIt's clearly against the spirit.16:47
koala_manbut when did spirit ever matter in the judicial system16:47
koala_manwell, in pre-1950 but anyways16:48
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_trineDear Ovi Files user,16:53
_trineNokia is discontinuing the Ovi Files service, effective October 1, 2010.16:53
_trineWe apologize for the inconvenience.16:53
_trinejust got that Email16:54
SpeedEvilAh - it's nice of them to give such a generous termination period.16:55
SpeedEvilThough my only use for ovi is omelettes16:55
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_trinethats the contents of their Emauil16:56
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MNZOvi Files is shutting down? Is this in preparation of shutting down the entire Ovi service? Bad News(tm) ?16:56
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MNZ_trine, the announcement is already on wikipedia.......16:59
MNZIn early September, 2010, Nokia announced to Ovi subscribers via email that it will be shutting-down the Ovi files service on October 1st, 2010.17:00
_trinethey have only just sent me this Email17:00
nid0theyre basically just shutting it down because it doesnt get used17:00
_trineI only joined about 3 weeks ago17:01
MNZI think nokia failed miserably in integrating the ovi services with their handsets17:01
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nid0and tbh the reason it doesnt get used is because like most of Ovi, nokia are doing the whole thing bass ackwards and half-heartedly, resulting in a piss-poor job of the entire brand, as it's far too fragmented17:01
pupnik_i think it's so good that it doesn't get appreciated17:02
pupnik_they need to build in more barriers and ad-banners, then people will think it's worthwhile to use17:02
DocScrutinizerumm wut? Only thing they got semi-working on ovi with N900 was sharing fotos and movies. Now while it is one of the few things that works on maemo, they now go and shut it down serverside? @.O  FALEWHALE17:02
nid0well, most of it doesnt get used because theres absolutely no integration with any of it17:03
MNZDocScrutinizer, apparently Ovi Share != Ovi Files17:03
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nid0for ovi stuff to work, the suite for pc's needs to provide direct access to everything under the brand, and on-device clients also need to support it.17:03
MNZI'm willing to bet they are on their way to slowly shut down ovi......17:04
nid0i wonder if nokia will be pushing an update for microb's default bookmarks17:04
nid0being as the second one on the list is ovi files17:04
DocScrutinizeruuh now I recall that silly netstorage-mockup that never really worked for linux machines17:04
MNZonly syncing service that I know works well is dropbox.com17:05
DocScrutinizeryeah KILL IT, DIE, BURN17:05
MNZthey actually have nautilus plugin, and it works well!17:05
MNZyou drag and drop files and they sync automatically.17:05
DocScrutinizerwtf is nautilus? shouldn't that read gautilus?17:05
MNZit's the filemanager on gnome17:06
MNZwhat's gautilus 0_o?17:06
DocScrutinizer:nod: that's why I suggested s/n/g/17:06
MNZoh hahaha17:06
lcuknid0, is not as mnz just clarified17:07
nid0lcuk i'm fully aware of that, whats your point?17:07
MNZnah gnome are not as anal about the names as KDE with their K prefixes17:07 is the link on bookmarks17:07
nid0no, its files.ovi.com17:07
nid0titled "Files on Ovi"17:07
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nid0click it and get taken to Ovi Files with a big notice saying "service getting discontinued as of october"17:08
MNZbut this is really not good news... ovi had good potential/intentions... it just needed some love17:08
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nid0ovi share is way the hell down at the end of the bookmark list17:08
nid0ovi files is the second one on the default list after google17:08
lcuknid0, looking further down my list i have another one at bottom for files17:08
lcukwhich takes me to a secure connection failed lol17:08
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nid0guess we have em in a different order then, files has always been second on my microb list though, with share at the end17:09
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lcukunderstood, at least thats a bit more clarified and your point does stand.17:10
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DocScrutinizertbh I got no clue by what criteria the bookmarks are sorted / ordered17:12
nid0either way though, seems to be a move in totally the wrong direction. shouldnt be shutting down their useful services, they just need to actually work properly on their half-assed software to include all of the services that fall under it's brand so that people know they exist and can use them17:13
villagerfor me, those I've never visited are at the bottom, so popularity or last-visit-time might be a factor17:13
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nid0full access to all of what's available as "ovi" should need the suite installed and nothing else, not like 54094690 different driver/software/etc downloads for every little thing17:13
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DocScrutinizerif they would *just* put the most elementary things like contacts/calendar sync to work... :-/17:16
DocScrutinizerfor webdavs I don't need ovi17:16
nid0well, this is more generalised than just for the n90017:19
DocScrutinizerneither would I advocate a monolitic nokiasuite solution that only works on winblows717:19
nid0ovi was originally billed as a way to bring all nokia's previously hugely fragmented services/software under one roof17:19
nid0all it's done is give them all the same brand name, but make them all just as disjointed and impossible to use as ever17:19
DocScrutinizeryeah, on which aim they epically failed so far17:20
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MNZ that's pre-releasing for ya. If anyone wanna test it out17:23
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pupnik_nice MNZ, very nice17:26
MNZpupnik_, thanks :-D hopefully the rest will be coming soon17:27
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MNZoh and if you are gonna test it, make sure you see
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pupnik_no device here17:27
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mirfooh wow that is quite cool17:29
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StskeepsMNZ: planning on submitting it upstream to linux kernel?17:33
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jcrawfordsomeone here that can lend a hand with issues installing the SDK?  I am getting these errors17:34
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jcrawfordHost kernel VDSO support... no17:35
jcrawfordE: Host kernel VDSO support is incompatible with scratchbox.17:35
hrwjcrawford: grab vmware image and use it with vmware/virtualbox/qemu instead of installing sbox17:35
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jcrawfordhrw, is there a specific reason you are stating to do that? is it easier?17:36
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hrwjcrawford: no sbox in my system, no problems with it during system updates17:37
jcrawfordok well installer just went on its way17:38
jcrawfordnow to figure out how to undo what it did so i can use the vmware image :017:38
jcrawfordthought i cannot even get to the page to download the image17:38
jcrawfordtimes out17:38
jcrawfordtakes too long to respond17:38
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amigadavescratchbox 1.0.18 or greater works fine whatever the VDSO setting:
jcrawfordanyone that can get to that?17:39
hrwjcrawford: no problem17:39
jcrawfordodd times out here17:39
jcrawfordmust be the corp network17:39
jcrawfordah was just my proxy setting got it now17:40
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jcrawfordgoing to attempt to write an app for my N900 that will log GPS coords (if no internet connection) and then update my web app with the coords for placement on an ajaxified google maps17:44
jcrawfordso that people could watch me ride around haha17:44
jcrawfordjust for fun nothing serious :)17:44
noaXesshave installed the SyncEvolution on my Nokia N900 but don't understand the seting: Calendar Source: N900, Private, Birthdays17:45
Flyserjcrawford: www.openstreetmap.org17:45
jcrawfordFlyser, yea just not as nice as Gmaps :)17:46
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jcrawfordor maybe I will use Yahoo Maps since Nokia is partnering with them and providing the map service to them17:46
Flyserjcrawford: how is gmaps "nice"?17:46
MNZStskeeps, eventually, probably will submit it to upstream. Nokia made some changes to the driver as well that are not in upstream too17:46
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jcrawfordFlyser, i think it looks nicer :) plus i have never worked with the OSM api17:46
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Flyserjcrawford: it *looks* nicer?17:47
Flyseryou do now, that there are multiple renderers for openstreetmap data17:47
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Flysernot to say "lots"17:47
StskeepsMNZ: well, in meego we are only using upstreamed stuff :)17:48
StskeepsMNZ: so if you notice some things missing, let us know17:49
SpeedEvilGoogle has the problem that though they may take your mods - in some places - with google maps - what you can actually do with that map is very limited.17:49
SpeedEvilAn interesting map freedom test is the cake test.17:49
SpeedEvilCan you legally as a buisness print out a map on a cake from the provider, without any issues.17:49
jcrawforddoes OSM have an API?17:49
Flyserjcrawford: I use openlayers.org17:50
MNZStskeeps, I haven't really gotten into meego yet. So only vanilla kernel? Or do you have your own patches to the kernel as well?17:50
Flyserdon't know if there are others17:50
lcukSpeedEvil, i find when i put cakes into my printer it gets a bit messy17:51
SpeedEvilYou need a better printer.17:51
jogadoes someone use accelemymote?17:51
jogait doesn't seem to work for me17:51
SpeedEvillcuk: It should have CMYK bags of sugar-icing.17:51
SpeedEvillcuk: as well as a chocolate dispenser.17:51
derfIt should print on strips of bacon.17:52
lcuka bacon printer would revolutionize the world17:52
lcukbacon is one of the most common highlight hits on my irc17:53
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kerioi like bacon17:53
lcukalso related:
drizztbsdwhat is liqbase :D17:54
lcukmy sleeping mind.17:54
lcukwhich i should really push another update out for17:55
lcukdrizztbsd, its the framework and apps i have created whilst i have been poking around maemo17:56
keriosearch "inverse augumented reality" on youtube17:57
StskeepsMNZ: we upstream everything (SGX excepted)17:57
StskeepsMNZ: so we take upstream, while upstream proceeds, we backport patches17:57
lcukkerio, tis just a fraction, but gives a good start :)17:57
lcuklink here
lcukStskeeps, so the live call stuff17:58
lcukdoes that still need upstreaming?17:58
SpeedEvilThis is a killer feature for a new n900 case.17:58
lcukinto ofono?17:58
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lcukSpeedEvil, n900 can already fly through windows17:58
lcukand with n900fly you can tell how high it was as well :P17:59
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: you noticed the telltale red lamps?18:02
MNZStskeeps, which version of the kernel is meego currently using?18:02
lcukDocScrutinizer, on which?18:03
StskeepsMNZ: 2.6.3518:03
keriolcuk: heh18:03
keriothe quadrocopter18:03
lcukDocScrutinizer, oh ohhhh ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...18:03
MNZlcuk, that kinetic scrolling in the liqbase calendar video... is it part of liqbase or the hildon framework default?18:04
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lcukmnz liqbase18:05
MNZlcuk, just wondering why you can't get this into hildon and save many innocent lives from the torture of broken kinetic scrolling?18:06
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MNZor is integration not that easy?18:06
keriointegration would require 3 lights constantly in front of the n90018:06
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X-FadeMNZ: Check out MohammadAG's SSU.18:06
X-FadeMNZ: Contains a lot of hildon fixes.18:07
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MNZX-Fade, so kinetic scrolling is actually smooth now?18:07
lcukmnz :) the algorithm is simple but implementation within gtk isn't so simple - as X-Fade says try the hildon update from MohammadAG51 but afaik it still doesnt change generic scrolling behaviour but just on the app list18:07
MohammadAG51nope, that's a driver problem18:08
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MNZMohammadAG, driver problem. Care to explain?18:08
MohammadAG51there's a bug report18:08
MohammadAG51the SGX doesn't support vsync or sth18:08
MohammadAG51I think it's a WONFIX18:08
Stskeepsfor maemo18:09
MNZoh no I don't really care about the graphics18:09
Stskeepsi have an image with vsync working, just not integrated in maemo yet18:09
MohammadAG51well, yes, for Maemo 518:09
Stskeepser, meego18:09
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, distributable?18:09
MNZI mean the scrolling itself18:09
MohammadAG51the scrolling is smoother on the sdk18:09
lcukMNZ, :) like sliding on bacon fat isnt it18:09
lcukMohammadAG51, how did you find the scrolling on your tablet?18:09
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MNZlcuk, yes! I was really surprised when you scrolled the calendar!18:10
MohammadAG51my tablet isn't with me, left it in jordan18:10
MohammadAG51there's an identical one here though18:10
MohammadAG51but with XP :/18:10
StskeepsMohammadAG51: licensing still under work (goes for any sgx)18:10
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, so you can't post it here right?18:10
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n900-spacehi everyone18:10
n900-spaceis there a way to keep the n900 display lit all the time .. like no timeout for display going off?18:11
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MohammadAG51the brightness applet allows that18:11
lcukn900-space, install the backlight applet, its got a little tickbox nobble just for this18:11
MohammadAG51otherwise, you could use a bash script in terminal18:11
lcukor in the settings, tick "keep display lit when charging"18:11
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E0xmaybe i get used to the bug but i don't see the problem with the scrolling in the n90018:12
E0xwhat is it ?18:12
MohammadAG51it's not smooth18:12
MohammadAG51see Android's and the iPhone's scrolling18:12
MohammadAG51or liqbase for that matter18:12
keriothe iphone's scrolling is ridiculously smooth18:12
E0xsmooth when is rolling or when you drag the finger to scroll it ?18:13
n900-spacewhere is that script to keep it lit MohammadAG51 ?18:13
MohammadAG51n900-space, no where, you make it :P18:13
n900-spaceand thanks lcuk i'll try that too, it'll be available from the app manager right ?18:13
MohammadAG51E0x, see liqcalendar18:13
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lcukn900-space, yes18:14
n900-spaceMohammadAG51: gimme hint then, what libs and stuff, what apis?18:14
MNZE0x, <- liqcalendar18:14
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n900-spaceis blacklight applet's source available lcuk?18:14
MohammadAG51n900-space, none, echo crap into /sys18:14
MohammadAG51or just kill mce18:15
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lcukn900-space, yes it is18:15
lcuk:) lots of the system and most community stuff is18:16
E0xi see now , i thought that was because so sort of sencibility settings18:16
E0xtoo low18:16
E0xin touch screen18:16
n900-spaceyup :)18:16
lcukMohammadAG51, what would be good for the kinetic patch18:16
E0xbut still i think the speed is OK for me18:16
lcukwould be to make it a gconf option18:16
lcukto follow later with a configurator18:16
MohammadAG51lcuk, madam did that, not gconf though18:17
MohammadAG51it's not configurable in /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini18:17
E0xbtw what exactly is liqbase ?18:17
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* lcuk rewinds 20minutes18:18
lcuk<drizztbsd> what is liqbase :D18:18
lcuk<lcuk> my sleeping mind.18:18
lcuk<lcuk> which i should really push another update out for18:18
lcuk<lcuk> drizztbsd, its the framework and apps i have created whilst i have been poking around maemo18:18
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* E0x watching
lcukMohammadAG51, "its not configurable" or its now configurable18:20
MohammadAG51oh, my bad18:20
MohammadAG51hal.dll missing18:20
MohammadAG51wtf does that mean18:20
lcukin windows thats bad18:21
lcukE0x, o_O that was my first video :)18:21
* Stskeeps notes that wives who can read your mind is good occasionally18:21
Stskeeps"should we have pizza?" in a text message18:21
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lcukStskeeps, :D18:21
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MohammadAG51lcuk, yeah18:22
lcukwhats worse however is she had to text you to ask that although she is sat on couch at side of you :P18:22
MohammadAG51neither windows nor ubuntu are booting up18:22
MNZlcuk, can you point me at liqbase source and the appropriate parts about the scrolling awesomeness?18:22
MohammadAG51kernel panic, nice18:22
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E0xlcuk: then how you do this : ?18:23
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lcukE0x, you tell me18:24
E0xwhat is the thing flircking over teh screen ?18:25
lcukMNZ, is called once per frame for components with a kinetic element18:26
E0xlook like 3 dot green18:26
lcukit boils off the energy added18:26
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MNZlcuk, thanks18:26
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MNZlcuk, is that all or is there more to it?18:27
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lcukmnz, thats it for removing the kinetics, it simply reduces the amount of remaining kinetic energy by 1 each frame18:28
lcukadding kinetics has a bit of filtering to remove trailing end of a stroke to ensure its not jumpy18:28
lcukbut nothing special18:29
MNZbut where do you calculate the initial amount of energy?18:29
lcukbased on mouse deltas given18:29
lcukso last mouse events had 10 pixels, kinetic is 10 unit18:29
lcuksso then for the next 10 frames it will jump18:29
lcukfirst 10 pixels, then 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,118:30
lcukthe algo is not complex at all18:30
MNZnot complex and works like a charm18:30
lcukon faster computers it boils off faster18:30
lcukon slower ones, well you have seen18:30
lcukit still works18:30
MNZyeah, it's frame rate dependent, will think about that later though18:30
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lcukmnz, it would be trivial to change it from linear to based on time fractions18:31
lcukbut i neve rsaw the point18:31
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MNZyeah I understand, it's not a big deal. It's just about how to use this same method in hildon.18:32
MNZhas someone attempted this before?18:32
lcukits been discussed at different times yeah18:33
lcukhence the tweaking and stuff in hildon itself18:33
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MNZand the end result of discussions...?18:33
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lcukits been changed18:33
lcukand we now have 2 versions :P18:33
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lcukone official hildon one which lots seem happy with based on rendering speed etc18:34
lcukand the other that MohammadAG51 likes18:34
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MNZis this the one in the SSU that MohammadAG51 likes? AIUI the scrolling is just smoother for the menu18:35
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lcukyes mnz, this change has to my knowledge not been attempted direct in gtk18:35
lcukso wouldnt change (for ex) the normal lists18:35
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MohammadAG51slow scrolling in the contacts list or similar stopped annoying me18:35
MohammadAG51it's not a hildon issue, it's an SGX one18:35
MNZok, so I won't be duplicating effort. good to know18:36
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MNZMohammadAG51, again, not talking about graphics. I don't care about it. I want the scrolling to be faster/smoother18:36
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MNZit's really weird in the current state IMHO. It'd be going really fast then suddenly tumble over like a trailer truck with full brakes on18:38
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lcukStskeeps, you mentioned new sgx driver on some meego n900 image.  i am guessing that would be compatible with hildon18:39
lcukwith maemo18:39
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Stskeepshildon wouldnt benefit from it. compositoright18:41
lcukhence me fixing the line18:41
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lcukthe sgx binary on maemo i mean18:41
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lcuk<Stskeeps> i have an image with vsync working, just not integrated in [meego] yet18:42
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secyritasi would love to see vsync in maemo 5 ported from meego18:46
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tobis87Stskeeps: Do you know why OMAP_DMA_DATA_BURST_4 is comment out in drivers/mtd/nand/omap-hw.c? I ask this because the omap-aes driver has dma problems, is it known to be broken?19:07
Stskeeps(i have no idea about kernel code)19:07
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tobis87Ok, thanks. Maybe i should just try to comment it out as well... but this would be a huge hit on performance, i suspect about 30%19:09
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tobis87OMAP_DMA_DATA_BURST_4 and OMAP_DMA_DATA_BURST_8 are comment out, I found OMAP_DMA_DATA_BURST_16 in omap-pcm.c, which is not comment out, so I suspect it is safe. Anyone know what this is, diffrent dma burst modes?19:12
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tobis87As i have suspected, different modes of burst; BURST_4 & BURST_8 are defined as burst = 0x2; and BURST_16 is defined as burst = 0x3; for omap319:19
lcuktobis87, hmm i don't hear much about DMA burst modes19:20
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tobis87lcuk:   omap_set_dma_src_burst_mode omap_set_dma_dest_burst_mode19:22
lcuktobis87, i realise the code is there, what i meant was i dont hear many people talking about it in polite conversation19:23
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tobis87lcuk: I don't know what it does, so I put it in here in hope someone knows and can help me with it.19:25
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lcukindeed tobis8719:27
lcuktobis87, perhaps for this discussion you will be best on the maemo-dev mailing list19:28
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tobis87lcuk: Do you mean this mailing list? It seems to be about 95% releated to programs,
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lcuktobis87, so stand out from the crowd and make a post to it which asks the right question and gets attention required.19:38
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tobis87lcuk: Ok, I will consider this... It is by the way an interesting find, it is the only piece commented out I found (+//) in the kernel patch... I therefore suspect it is a hardware flaw, the nand could be accessed faster in burst mode.19:42
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keriohey, GPLed ps3 jailbreak19:42
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microlithwhich will work until the next firwmare update I expect19:47
keriohmm... it's something that happens before the OS is loaded, i think19:47
kerioheap overflow with the usb hw code19:47
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microlithyeah, iirc it spams the system with usb devices connecting and disconnecting19:51
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lcukhey, has anyone noticed any scripts/investigation ongoing related to directly booting n900 and using external MMC only - ie totally ignoring the original eMMC and perhaps doing full dualboot onto a self contained external MMC19:55
Venemohi guys19:56
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Venemolcuk: ask the NITdroid guys19:56
lcukbah, i meant maemo19:56
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jameswcan i ask n900 questions in here?19:57
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Venemolcuk: yes, but they may have experience with how to boot an OS from the MMC19:58
lcukVenemo, OS boot is secondary19:58
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lcukassume broken eMMC19:58
Venemojamesw: hi19:58
Venemojamesw: yes, of course19:58
lcukand still wanting n900 to happily work19:58
lcukusing the external mmc as storage and opt space19:58
jameswi just got an n900 after eying it for a long time, really loving it.  my device screen says i have 10.2010.19-1.002 but i've seen version numbers reported as PR1.2 or such, can someone please help me interpret that?20:00
lcukthats pr1.220:00
lcukit was released on week1920:00
jameswso is there another version label i should go off of somewhere?20:01
Venemolcuk: ah, interesing...20:01
Venemolcuk: is your eMMC broken?20:01
jameswi don't see "skype video call" in my contact view :(20:02
lcukno but its something that has been raised in a discussion20:02
lcukjamesw, the contact you want to call has to be skype compatable afaik but I do not know the specifics20:03
lcukthe button is shown only with whatever the criteria are20:03
jameswyeah… he's on desktop skype he said.. and i see the option to call him, audio skype calls work20:03
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luke-jrjamesw: Skype video call isn't really usable20:04
luke-jrit only works if the other person also has N90020:05
luke-jror the latest Windows beta20:05
jamesw"Remember that you can only video call Skype-to-Skype with a contact who’s using either a Nokia N900 or Skype 4.2 for Windows (or later versions)."
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jameswokay i see the option on another contact20:06
jameswinteresting. thanks guys. i'm sure i'll be back and i'll get to know everyone. :)20:06
jameswlooking forward to being a member in the community20:07
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satmdfrom Jamesw's link20:17
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satmdthere's plans for a new firmware in near time?20:17
satmdit says August 201020:17
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jacekowskisatmd: no20:28
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Milhousesatmd: maybe, look at the last comment on bug 10294.20:30
povbot`Bug Email desktop widget does not display mails from Nokia Messaging accounts20:30
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* satmd is so hoping, bug 11182 is getting a serious look, too20:34
povbot`Bug EAP-TLS warning "certificate not valid currently"20:34
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* luke-jr wonders if SkypeKit would work with N900 video20:47
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drizztbsdi have a big problem, my n900 is too discharged and it won't charge anymore20:49
Stskeepsdid you play around with overclocking or nitdroid?20:49
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drizztbsdnitdroid :P20:49
Stskeepsget another device to charge it in20:50
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drizztbsduhm sh*t20:50
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drizztbsdis there any other way to charge that battery?20:50
Stskeepswell, reflash maemo20:50
drizztbsdSuitable USB device not found, waiting.20:50
luke-jrdrizztbsd: the dead-charge won't work⁇20:52
Stskeepsdrizztbsd: best thing you can do is to put it on wall charger20:52
jacekowskidrizztbsd: connect it to normal charger20:52
jacekowskidrizztbsd: and DON'T touch20:52
jacekowskidrizztbsd: it will go into emergency charge mode and charge20:52
drizztbsdso I have to see it to reboot 100 times :P ?20:53
jacekowskidrizztbsd: if you touch it it will charge little bit20:53
jacekowskidrizztbsd: not enough to boot20:53
jacekowskibilboed: but enough to don't initiate emergency charge20:53
jacekowskidrizztbsd: well, you have to wait then20:53
jacekowskior you are experiencing reboot loop20:54
jacekowskiand flashing will help20:54
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drizztbsdi have a reboot loop20:54
GAN900Anybody else have weirdness with their term history?20:54
Stskeepsin maemo?20:54
GAN900It only remembers stuff from, like, 3 months ago20:55
jacekowskiGAN900: yes20:55
jacekowskiGAN900: it only stores couple entries20:55
GAN900Or sometimes it'll remember stuff from a few weeks ago20:55
jacekowskihmm, no20:55
GAN900Then goes back to 3 months ago.20:55
merlincoreyit will only "remember" stuff if you properly exit the shell20:56
merlincoreyby typing exit; at least in my experience20:56
merlincoreyand the history is very short20:56
merlincoreyso I type in the few things I need most, then exit, and never exit again :P20:56
jpinx-eeepcI am not sure, but if you open 2 shells it might cause it to have selective memory too20:57
GAN900Ah, well20:57
GAN900I usually hit the x20:57
GAN900Obnoxious setup, that.20:58
jpinx-eeepcGAN900: that's basically crashing the window ;)20:58
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jpinx-eeepcwhy will my clock not rotate to portrait?20:58
GAN900jpinx-eeepc, clearly an implementation bug.20:59
jpinx-eeepcthere's a few ;)20:59
jpinx-eeepccalender won't scroll a week at a time when showing the month21:00
jpinx-eeepcstuff like that21:00
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MNZClutter. How aptly named.21:02
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lcukGAN900, 2 things: i notice when I ssh from n900 if i just close the xterm by its x, it doesnt save the history21:05
lcukand at some point i have noticed some user permissions thing21:05
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SwedeMikelcuk: yes, it seems pressing X to close will forcably close it without it saving history, using "exit" saves history.21:06
drizztbsdI have now the orange led always on21:07
drizztbsdis the emergency charging?21:08
lcukSwedeMike, guessing also same goes for sudo gainroot stuff21:08
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VenemoSwedeMike: yes, it works that way21:09
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drizztbsdcan I make a simple BL-5J charger? maybe using another one? :)21:14
Venemodrizztbsd: yes, you can21:16
Venemodrizztbsd: see the "charging from dumb power sources" thread on TMO21:16
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Venemojohnsq: hi21:23
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TomaszDjacekowski, was it you who recommended an external battery charger for the freerunner?21:24
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jacekowskii charge my batteries with power supply21:25
jacekowskiwith current/voltage limiter21:25
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drizztbsdjacekowski: how?21:29
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jacekowskiwell, just connect battery to power supply21:31
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jacekowskiset limiter to 900mA as a safe current21:31
jacekowskiand nominal battery voltage21:31
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pupnik  [ Full-Body Scan Technology Deployed In Street-Roving Vans - Andy Greenberg - The Firewall - Forbes ]21:32
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GAN900pupnik, the only people who should fear that are criminals. :P21:36
pupnikand everyone who is forced to pay for it should hate it21:37
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GAN900pupnik, hate it? But surely it's keeping you safe from said body-scan-truck fearing criminals.21:44
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derfGAN900: Criminals and those who haven't gotten their healthy dose of backscatter radiation at the dentist.21:45
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andaxmerlincorey: you could add a line in your bashrc that moves the bash_history with a timestamp in its name to a separate folder21:45
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andaxeverytime you login/logout21:45
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TomaszDStskeeps, around?21:47
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StskeepsTomaszD: sortof21:48
TomaszDStskeeps, onwards :)21:49
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Stskeepsah, the photos of your trip to the roads of warsaw ;)21:49
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TomaszDthe small 4x4 with the softtop is ours21:49
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trumeesince smoku has stopped coding for maemo the sixaxis-support sources is also gone. Is there are backup of sixaxis-support sources?22:09
trumee is empty22:09
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lcuktrumee, did he push to -devel?22:13
lcukif so, the sources will be on repository in a convenient tar.gz, whats the package name22:13
trumeelcuk: sixaxis-support22:14
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lcukso, yes :)22:14
trumeelcuk: ah. good.22:14
lcukindeed :)22:15
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trumeelcuk: where is the source of sixad, ?22:18
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lcuktrumee, following it, that package is empty22:18
lcukis where the meat is afaik22:18
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lcuki just pasted the link trumee22:18
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trumeelcuk: so the binary of qtsixa is sixad?22:19
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trumeelcuk: i thought there were some changes to qtsixa and resulting code was sixad?22:19
lcuktrumee, yes the resulting package from qtsixa source is sixad22:20
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lcuklook inside the qtsixa tar.gz inside the debian/control file it is clarified22:20
trumeelcuk: thanks22:21
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pupnikusing a simple 770 tablet for heads-up display
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lcukpupnik, and as feasible today as it was when posted in 2007!22:35
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GAN900I want a HUD22:49
GAN900I can't wait for the 2013 BMW M3 with MeeGo.22:50
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lcukGAN900, it does actually sound good22:51
lcuktho the digital speedo on my car took a while to get used to22:51
GAN900Hopefully it's not completely crippled.22:51
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lcukyeah, the controls in a car are perhaps the most tricky to computerise22:52
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SpeedEvilapt-get install tuxracer?22:52
lcukis tuxrace is there22:53
lcukbut not tuxracer22:53
* lcuk wonders if its the same thing22:53
lcukDocScrutinizer, the sudser author has an n900 and will test/release for it22:55
lcukhe mailed me this morning22:55
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kerioPlanet Penguin Racer > Tux Racer22:57
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lcuktuxrace 71mb22:58
lcukbuild-essential is about the same size i think :D22:58
N900brothaso...the n900 is in a diaper commercial... what a sad end to what coulda been22:58
StskeepsN900brotha: we missed you too22:59
N900brothawhat are you referring to?23:00
keriois sauerbraten ported yet?23:00
kerioit's a kickass FPS23:00
lcukhaha tuxrace is the right one and it works :D23:00
jcrawforddamn how the heck do you ssh to the N900?  I installed OpenSSH and USBNet but it keeps denying my root password23:00
jcrawfordi did sudo gainroot23:00
jcrawfordthen passwd and set a password23:01
jcrawfordit still will not let me in23:01
lcukjcrawford, the usb side may be whats not configured correctly23:01
lcukforget ssh until you know you can correctly ping it23:01
MNZjcrawford, more often than not you ssh to the wrong machine..... the curse of the DHCP23:01
SpeedEvilyou did pick a password?23:02
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N900brothaim surprised at the level of activity in this chat room all things considered...a cheerful bunch are we not?23:02
MNZN900brotha, very23:03
lcuktuxrace using just cursor keys needs switching23:03
jcrawfordi did set a password using the passwd command23:03
N900brothaany good new apps for N900 lately ?23:04
jcrawfordhow can i see from the device what the usb ip is?23:04
StskeepsN900brotha: we know well who you are :P23:04
jcrawfordi did it on my ubuntu machine and it said
jacekowskiphone has probably .1523:04
jcrawfordifconfig is not supported on the N90023:04
jcrawfordso says the terminal23:04
jacekowskiit is23:04
jacekowskisudo gainroot23:04
N900brothaStskeeps: what is this? the FBI channel?23:04
jacekowskiand then ifconfig23:04
jcrawfordyea saw that :)23:04
jcrawfordand it is *.1523:04
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jcrawfordstill denied23:05
lcuk/sbin/ifconfig is in my history23:05
kerio/sbin/ifconfig works23:05
kerioit's just not in the path for user23:05
N900brothaany news on n9?23:05
kerioit looks like a macbook pro23:06
kerioapart from that, it's an upgraded n90023:06
StskeepsN900brotha: close enough23:06
jacekowskiwith omap423:06
jcrawfordso odd my computer says .15 and the device says .15 lol23:06
N900brothakerio: no... its 1000 times better than n90023:06
jacekowskiless battery life probably23:06
jacekowskii suppose it can drain it in minutes now23:06
jacekowskinot hours23:06
N900brothacheer up fellas23:07
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*** Stskeeps sets mode: +b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.198.*23:08
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps23:08
Stskeepshe was ban evading23:08
Appiahthat troll23:08
jacekowskiStskeeps: wtf?23:08
MNZthat ban you set.... I don't think it's a good idea23:08
kerioyeah, don't do that23:08
kerioIP bans are not worth it23:08
MNZyou just banned 65536 addresses23:09
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Stskeepswe had this discussion already.23:09
SpeedEvilMNZ: you forgot broadcast addresses23:09
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kerioBanning 64k addresses is not normal. On #maemo it is.23:10
kerio#maemo - not even once.23:10
jacekowskii used to ban /8 sometimes23:10
jacekowskiwhen i was ircop on small network we used to run for game purpose23:10
Stskeepskerio: it is fairly normal practice when it's a whole ISP and the person in question repeatedly trolls.23:10
jacekowskibut we had 2k users online23:10
MNZlets just ban whole countries now23:10
Appiahban finland23:10
petterinooo... :)23:11
kerioi would be really against it but i guess that registered users are still ok23:11
Stskeepsso, any of you backseat ops got a better idea for what would keep this guy out?23:11
Stskeepscheck irc logs and come up with a better mask, please.23:11
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Stskeepshe changes nicks like underwear.23:12
mortiniand N9OObrotha?23:12
jacekowskiban his ident23:12
jacekowskior realname23:12
Stskeepsjacekowski: no ident on webchat, ~user is already banned.23:12
keriojacekowski: not to break the news to you... idents and real names can be changed23:12
kerioi mean, i have my own identd23:12
MNZcan we please face reality? you know you can't really ban him23:12
MNZproxies are there for a reason :/23:13
SpeedEvilIdentd is completely secure!23:13
Stskeepsproxies are detected23:13
jacekowskibut do you think he's clever enough to change it?23:13
lcukStskeeps, he is still blocked on mine23:13
lcuktho i have no idea how i put him on my ignore list23:13
lcuksame ip as last time23:13
lcuki just saw you kicked him23:13
lcukthen realised i had missed him ranting23:13
MNZaw lets just troll the troll please. pretty please?23:14
kerioforce a nickserv identification23:14
lcuk  *@*            YES  YES  YES  YES  YES  YES  NO23:14
lcukis the ban i have for him23:14
lcukand i set that up a while ago after i had enough23:14
lcukie, he dont change his ip that often23:14
Stskeepsjust checked logs, i have several different ones for him.23:15
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MNZkerio, keewus true yagho loghos? I don't get it. no seriously. I don't23:17
kerioreally, you can quiet non-identified users23:18
Stskeepskerio: sure, and cut off a large bunch of this channel too..23:19
kerioStskeeps: they could just, you know, register23:19
lcukkerio, been there, done that got tshirt23:21
lcukcauses more problems23:21
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lcukand theres a trickle of 74.198.* vs the amount of hassle quieting does23:21
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lcukStskeeps, in meego at least since july he has been the only 74.198er23:22
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lcukkerio, sauerbraten, which gl is it written in, can it be ported? does it already run?23:24
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nuovodnahi, is there an OCR reader for Maemo (N900) ?23:26
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keriographically intensive though23:27
kerioopensource, so that's a plus23:27
kerio*really* cool23:27
kerioit's just mindless killing23:28
kerioalthough there are some team-based modes23:28
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Stskeepsprobably the weirdest product placement, ever:
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jcrawforddoes the N900 support WebRuntime Apps?23:31
lcuknuovodna, i havent seen any tbh23:32
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lcukand jcrawford not sure what support is where23:32
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wazdStskeeps: it was really hard to find cellphone that fat to fit their "product" :D23:34
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kerioLOL DIAPER23:35
keriothey should pour the water on the n900 too23:35
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trumeekerio, could sauerbraten run on N900? is opengl supported?23:42
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drizztbsdcan cold flash help me?23:45
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MNZkerio, I get it. I finally do. The answer is no, no I'm not.23:50
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drizztbsdwhat is the difference of 2101 and 2201 and where can I found that product number?23:53
lcukdrizztbsd, -10023:55
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lcukdrizztbsd, where are you reading it and have you tried normal flashing (just spotted something in scrollback23:56
drizztbsdthe battery is too low23:57
drizztbsdand it won't charge23:57
lcukahh drizztbsd idk answer to that, people tried helping up there about it i saw though23:58
lcuknone of that helped i gather?23:58
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