| Jartza | resistance is futile | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: I wouldn't know how to use or program a buffer with garbage collection... All I ask about is, is there already something done, which could break, if I put an encryption layer between swap use and the disk access. | 00:00 |
| tobis87 | or fs and disk | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | No, it will just work. | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | It may not be fast, but meh. | 00:01 |
| tobis87 | ok, i'm just scared about all this aligment stuff | 00:01 |
| Jartza | I'm slowly assimilating Finnish mobile-development companies | 00:02 |
| tobis87 | since i first read about the new harddrives and now the same stuff in real. | 00:02 |
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| mece | ok I think I got it working now. | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | blizzow3: (no sluggishness in BB mail) haha, it cheats. It downloads and presents first mail, and then in background downloads the rest (at least that's what I've heard, never even touched such critter). So yeah, it *looks* fast, but don't think about switching immediately to msg #2 :-P | 00:16 |
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| mece | yay fheroes2 0.5.1916-maemo-3 Build succeeded 2010-08-30 21:22 | 00:23 |
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| mortini | DocScrutinizer: at least on my bb, it doesn't do that, i just use the imap push junk. it does, however, just download part of the message | 00:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (alarm_queue.ini) it's probably written by alarmd on quit. caller-ui does exactly that, that's the reason you need to kill -9 it in *#-ena, as otherwise the edits in the config file are overwritten and lost | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems a lot of programs work that way. xchat the same, obviously | 00:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's actually a very bad practice, as all 'edits' the process does 'locally' during runtime are lost if process terminates ungracefully | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably a side effect of OO coding :-S Save in object destructor | 00:35 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, it depends on the app makeup yeah | 00:49 |
| lcuk | sometimes configuration propertybags are held until the end, othertimes they are pushed as modified | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | read-modify-write on every change would be much saner | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | *especially* on a mobile device | 00:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer should post some best practice recommendation regarding that | 00:53 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | hell, how often I've lost all the xchat configs done with much effort, just because I forgot to restart(sic!) xchat after editing, and eventually xchat got killed on system shutdown | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-(( | 00:55 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, thats an organisational issue too | 01:01 |
| lcuk | because active external monitoring of config changes alters the app flow | 01:01 |
| jacekowski | that's why irssi have /save | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: err, active external monitoring? please elaborate. I suggested a simple read-modify-write inside the procedure/method actually changing a setting, rather than read-on-constructor change-locally write-in-destructor | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: a /save is sane, if app *only* saves on /save | 01:06 |
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| jacekowski | well, thing is that saving everything everytime you modify something is just a waste | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | if, however, app saves on quit _sometimes_, depending on lateral conditions of particular quit, that's bad | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | no matter if there's also a /save or not | 01:07 |
| lcuk | PEBKAC :P | 01:07 |
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| lcuk | you know it happens, so shutdown xchat when you are messing | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS! I don't want to shutdown xchat to save changes :-S | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I even received spanking on IRC because of doing that, in an extended way | 01:09 |
| jacekowski | well, irssi is asking on quite if you want to save or not | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | if there were any changes | 01:10 |
| jacekowski | irssi ftw | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: what help is this, when device shuts down hard due to bat low or whatever | 01:10 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as a general rule, on a mobile device you SHALL keep everything as persistent as possible, and flush early and often, as you MUST NOT expect a sane clean system shutdown | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~2119 | 01:12 |
| infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. | 01:12 |
| satmd | nice one | 01:15 |
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| satmd | I'd replace everything by non-temporary data, but I agree :) | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: (waste) how much waste can this be, reading a <5k config file, and writing it back - every once in a few hours? | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | ugh | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | how do I get networking inside qemu-maemo? | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | imagine 100s of programs doing that | 01:16 |
| satmd | uhm, I guess it uses atime | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | what exactly are you wasting doing that? | 01:16 |
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| satmd | atime/stat is cheap | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ther's no config changes in 100s of programs concurrently | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | lol | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | I would hope N900 doesn't support atime | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure it supports atime. Just drives a monted noatime | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | … | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | that's obviously what I mean | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | anyhow | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | networking on qemu maemo | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | howto | 01:18 |
| loufoque | is there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | -nic something | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | like in normal qemu i would expect | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | loufoque: oO | 01:18 |
| satmd | -net nic | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: Maemo doesn't support NICs does it? | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | loufoque: do you have PR1.2? | 01:19 |
| loufoque | yes | 01:19 |
| satmd | and maybe -net user for the other end | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: it should | 01:19 |
| luke-jr | hrm | 01:19 |
| luke-jr | do I need to load some module? | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | loufoque: yes, it's called optification | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | with bit of trickery and modules | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it should be done with unionfs | 01:19 |
| loufoque | /opt isn't on the eMMC as far as I can see | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | that's my opinion | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | loufoque: it should be | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | loufoque: it is | 01:20 |
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| loufoque | oh right, /home/opt on /opt | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 01:20 |
| infobot | optification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 01:20 |
| loufoque | but I've got much more space on /home/user/MyDocs | 01:22 |
| loufoque | why can't I just use that space | 01:22 |
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| jacekowski | because it's vfat | 01:22 |
| jacekowski | not compatible | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | loufoque: please read the page infobot posted URL above. It's all in there | 01:23 |
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| loufoque | couldn't I just format it to ext3 | 01:25 |
| loufoque | and put everything on one big partition | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, as that will break things | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are a few things in maemo that expect to see a vfat there | 01:26 |
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| jacekowski | hmm, but he could resize it | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia could have sanitized the whole optification madness with PR1.2, but they were so happy with their inventive duct tape botch so they will most likely keep it forever now, maybe even migrate the concept to meego as it panned out so incredibly great | 01:28 |
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| jacekowski | unionfs | 01:29 |
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| jacekowski | and they could use some sort of vfat emulation | 01:29 |
| Macer | so does anybody know why facebrick says unauthorized source ip address? | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah! have a decent classical, nah orthodox partitioning and earn | 01:29 |
| Macer | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?s=42c7408224991c6635bb9a8306f5afcd&t=49216&page=61 | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | why the hell must things get symlinks from usr/ to opt/ while usr/ still on NAND?? there's absolutely NO sane reason why usr/ can't get an own drive. That's been the rationale usr/ was introduced | 01:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | back in the 1960s | 01:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Unix System Resources: all the executables and other system resources not needed for core boot to single user mode. Kept un usr/ to allow a separate drive that may even fail and system still can boot to service mode | 01:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now if you create a distry and have nfc about such things, and dare to rely on usr/ in your init scripts, then umm what should unix gurus call you? | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | then if you go on and instead of fixing the root cause, throw out everything needed for boot from usr/ and keep it in bin/ and sbin/ etc instead, where it belongs according to FHS, and rather invent a thing called 'optification'... :-x | 01:40 |
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| jacekowski | thing is | 01:43 |
| jacekowski | that people like to touch things they know fuck all about | 01:44 |
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| jacekowski | and make it overcomplicated | 01:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, instead of moving 10 files from /usr/bin to /bin, we now have 942++ symlinks from /usr/bin to /opt/usr/bin and only 10 real files in /usr/bin. *GREAT* | 01:46 |
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| jacekowski | 942++ = 943 | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope, I've overloaded ++ :-P | 01:52 |
| nox- | haha | 01:52 |
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| loufoque | 942++ is 942 | 01:54 |
| loufoque | doesn't really make sense actually, ++ only works on lvalues | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and - btw - those mentioned 10 files are the exact 10 files that don't belong there. But who cares, as /usr also doesn't belong where it actually is :-P | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | wget, zip, and unrar don't seem to be optified | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably messybox needs them to start init :-P | 01:57 |
| MNZ | Can someone explain what the correct answer to this fiasco (pun intended. sue me) of an FS is? | 01:57 |
| zeltak | evening guys..im kinda worried..i started logging my crahses/reboots when using emulators and got card I/O errors: http://pastebin.ca/1929149 | 01:57 |
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| zeltak | it only happens when using emultaors..does that mean my internal memory is screwed? | 01:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, lol they're not on the stock firmware :p | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: please rephrase | 01:58 |
| MNZ | The whole symlink hell and optification that nokia invented, what was the simpler answer to the problem they solved? Actually, scratch that, someone remind me what the problem is/was again. | 01:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the problem is [2010-08-31 00:18:46] <loufoque> is there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs | 02:00 |
| MNZ | no no I mean the *problem* that nokia faced which they solved with the whole optification thing. | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | 256MB rootfs | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | fillup of 235MB NAND rootfs, due to /usr living on NAND | 02:01 |
| MNZ | and /usr cannot live on eMMC? | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure it can, and it SHALL | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | it _can_, but the eMMC is slower | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | i don't mind shoving maemo 5 on the emmc | 02:02 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, did you see egoshin's eMMC scripts? | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: uhuh, so when calling it opt and symlinking it, it gets considerably faster, no? | 02:03 |
| MNZ | MohammadAG51, so the solution for a slow /usr is to use /opt (on eMMC!) and symlink stuff :/ ? | 02:03 |
| Macer | ugh | 02:03 |
| Macer | trying to find the latest nitdroid rootfs | 02:03 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hey, i didn't invent scotch tape | 02:03 |
| MNZ | just so we are clear, that last thing I said *is* actually what happened?!? I was sorta joking... | 02:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly that was happening | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 02:05 |
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| MohammadAG51 | how does maemo 5 handle mmc crap? | 02:05 |
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| MohammadAG51 | on ubuntu, mmcblk0 is the microSD | 02:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | same with nitdroid fedora etc.. | 02:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | but on maemo 5 it's mmcblk1 | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's renamed sometime during boot iirc | 02:06 |
| MNZ | IMHO if there's going to be a PR1.3 it shouldn't be out without a sane answer to the limited nand space | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | so, assuming maemo 5 is moved to the eMMC, or the microSD, would it rename them? | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | the answer is optification, according to nokia | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'm thinking of backing up my shit then moving maemo 5 and adding a bootmenu entry | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: you can ask questions :-P | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | problem is | 02:07 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the bootmenu is on the rootfs | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm, the OneNAND is fast, can it be used as swap? | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | theoritically | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | but it's also very limited space | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | 256MBs | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | but it's faster swap | 02:09 |
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| * MohammadAG51 installs grub to /dev/mtd0 :P | 02:10 | |
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| nox- | grub works on n900? :) | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol doubtful | 02:10 |
| zeltak | so kinda related to the current discussion the error i get is: mmcblk0: error -84 transferring data, sector 60919576, nr 256, card status 0x900 | 02:10 |
| jacekowski | uuuuuu | 02:10 |
| nox- | MohammadAG51, thats why i asked :) | 02:10 |
| zeltak | i get it loads of times http://pastebin.ca/1929149 | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm, replace it? | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: the PITA is: fix this shit on your device, and epically fail on next SSU | 02:10 |
| jacekowski | zeltak: have you overclocked it? | 02:10 |
| zeltak | jacekowski: nope not at all | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | well, it's broken anyways | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | warranty | 02:11 |
| zeltak | and i only get reboots during using game emulators | 02:11 |
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| zeltak | ahh shit.... | 02:11 |
| zeltak | its not my month :( first my laptop now the phone..crap.. | 02:11 |
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| zeltak | so what part is screwed..the internal memory? | 02:12 |
| jacekowski | yep | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | don't you just like it when terminal gets mixed up | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | N⎺┐␋▒-N900:·# | 02:12 |
| jacekowski | reset | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | anyone got any success in mounting an mtd block? | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah jacekowski, i know | 02:13 |
| zeltak | shit....anyone knows how does one procced in the USA? does nokia have serice points here | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: first try a reflash of eMMC | 02:13 |
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| MohammadAG51 | backup before trying that | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | eMMC reflash might fail | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG51: mounting? | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG51: just use mount | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | not on the N900 | 02:14 |
| zeltak | thx DocScrutinizer i will..i actually reflashed a few days ago..wait so the mmcnlk0 i the emmc? | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 02:14 |
| zeltak | ahh i see..ok i will flash it again but after that is there a badblocks or any other test to run to check the memory? | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | m*ulti-m*edia-c*ard-0 | 02:15 |
| zeltak | gotcha | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | detecting bad blocks on a mmc isn't exactly simple | 02:16 |
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| zeltak | i see so how does one know if the emmc is defective? | 02:16 |
| jacekowski | hmm, but nand controller should pick it up | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | reflash would fail | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | as there's not supposed to be any exposed to 'outside world - mmc controller should handle that internally | 02:16 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, because you shouldn't fix it on *your* device. This needs a good answer and a fix through an SSU.... of course this is a huge amount of work, deoptification(I love new words) of all the packages, and succesfully "fixing" everyone's devices in an automated way.... is all this even plausible? | 02:17 |
| zeltak | MohammadAG51: was you referring to my case when you said reflash will fail? | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | s/will/might | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: plausible yes, as in mythbusters :-P | 02:17 |
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| zeltak | so....im confused...should i not try to reflash emmc? | 02:18 |
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| MohammadAG51 | backup what you have left, reflash, if it fails take it back | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should, and you'll lose your data anyway during the process, so backup | 02:18 |
| MNZ | When's the next planned SSU? | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | 20xx afaik | 02:19 |
| zeltak | ok thx MohammadAG51 and DocScrutinizer | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: nobody knows if and when | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | if, yes | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | when, idk | 02:19 |
| jacekowski | but i'm surprised that controller doesn't fix the problem | 02:19 |
| MNZ | oh, no plans. goody. | 02:19 |
| zeltak | so if i do reflash succesfully does that mean things are good? | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ack | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | probably | 02:19 |
| jacekowski | is that memory so worn that it's not usable anymore | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | unlikely | 02:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | could be early defect | 02:20 |
| jacekowski | and look at the block numbers | 02:20 |
| zeltak | and if not anyone had any experience with "taking it back" in the USA? how is that done? | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | it might go kaboom later | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | or siply a nasty corrupted block | 02:20 |
| jacekowski | these are sequential | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 02:20 |
| jacekowski | looks like there is no wear leveling applied at all | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | zeltak, a bottle of beer, or 10, and a visit to the Nokia store | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: first flash VANILLA eMMC | 02:21 |
| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: will do it in a few minutes | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: if that doesn't fix things, we'll deal with RMA | 02:22 |
| jacekowski | and fiasco image | 02:22 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hmm, the N95's battery is the same as the N900's | 02:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | ignoring size and capacity differences | 02:22 |
| zeltak | thx DocScrutinizer ill report in a few minutes..just the emmc not the root right? | 02:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | both | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: yes - and COMBINED! | 02:22 |
| zeltak | and combined? so both the root and the emmc..gothca | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | don't use -R | 02:23 |
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| zeltak | kk thx MohammadAG51 | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | when using flasher-3.5 | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | never flash eMMC without rootfs | 02:23 |
| zeltak | i see thx for the tips | 02:23 |
| zeltak | so first root without -R and then the emmc | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd do it other way round, but in the end without -R it doesn't matter | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just never use -R | 02:24 |
| zeltak | ok so ill do it your way DocScrutinizer then 1)reflash vanilla to emmc (without -r) and then reflash root and then reboot..correct | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 02:25 |
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| jacekowski | and let it boot | 02:25 |
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| jacekowski | don't touch it | 02:25 |
| zeltak | kk cool..back in a few minutes to reprot :) | 02:25 |
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| * DocScrutinizer got the strange feeling like today is his first level helpdesk day | 02:26 | |
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| MNZ | There's no chance I can get my hands on nokia's pulseaudio modules right? | 02:27 |
| zeltak | sorry about the helpday questions DocScrutinizer :) | 02:27 |
| jacekowski | you can | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik nope | 02:27 |
| jacekowski | just not a sources of them | 02:27 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | what pulseaudio modules | 02:29 |
| MNZ | pulseaudio-module-nokia-{custom,music,voice} | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | wtf are those for | 02:29 |
| MNZ | s/custom/common/ | 02:30 |
| infobot | MNZ meant: pulseaudio-module-nokia-{common,music,voice} | 02:30 |
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| MNZ | well, one is for common stuff between the mods, the other is for music playback, the third is for voice calls. just guessing | 02:30 |
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| MohammadAG51 | meh, no proper description | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'm off, night o/ | 02:30 |
| jacekowski | hmm | 02:30 |
| MNZ | night | 02:30 |
| jacekowski | we should check PA license | 02:31 |
| jacekowski | and double check if it's legal to create closed source PA modules | 02:31 |
| MNZ | jacekowski, you mean we could force nokia to release sources!? HEEHAW | 02:31 |
| jacekowski | we would have to check license | 02:31 |
| MNZ | LGPL :( | 02:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: night | 02:32 |
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| MNZ | *shakes fist* damn you PA devs, you haven't even got your license right :@ | 02:33 |
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| pupnik_ | hey mhz | 02:34 |
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| pupnik_ | you should have some ramen | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: you're aware of the 15 pages pdf from that Nokia guy, about maemo audio (mainly PA)? | 02:34 |
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| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, as usual, no. | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompl | 02:35 |
| jacekowski | and i wasted another weekend | 02:35 |
| jacekowski | time to sleep | 02:35 |
| jacekowski | i have to go to work today | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf | 02:35 |
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| MNZ | Jyri Sarha, I have seen this name in a whole bunch of places now. | 02:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: this should give you an idea about what's in those modules, I guess | 02:37 |
| MNZ | night jacekowski | 02:37 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, thanks a lot! | 02:37 |
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| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: emmc flash went well but getting an error on root flash: | 02:39 |
| zeltak | USB device found found at bus 001, device address 017. | 02:39 |
| zeltak | Raw data transfer EP found at EP2. | 02:39 |
| zeltak | Using flashing protocol Mk II. | 02:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, that's not exactly an error yet, I think | 02:40 |
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| zeltak | ok...so how do i proceed..only the emmc was flashed so far | 02:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: maybe it'd help to switch off the device after first flash, and restart with flashing rootfs as usual | 02:42 |
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| zeltak | sorry i dont follow (its been a long day at work... :))..the device is switched off currently after emmc flash | 02:43 |
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| zeltak | so now i should boot it ? | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so proceed with flashing rootfs | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, don't 'boot' | 02:44 |
| zeltak | so thats what i did but get the above error | 02:44 |
| zeltak | device is powered off and i issued: flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | you shall keep it from booting into system, by a) holding 'u', b) prestarting flasher command and 'switch on' N900 via simply plugging in USB cable to it | 02:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 02:45 |
| zeltak | ahh ok so press power hold down "u" key and start the flasher? | 02:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no, don't press power key | 02:46 |
| MNZ | zeltak, hold down 'u' and plug in the usb. don't press power | 02:46 |
| zeltak | i see just press u and start flasher and then plug in usb..gotcha | 02:46 |
| zeltak | i see thx | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | just hold the 'u' key, then plug in to USB. it will auto-on | 02:46 |
| * lcuk ponders how to do this as an all in one bundle | 02:46 | |
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| MNZ | no, start flasher only after usb is plugged in and phone is actually on | 02:47 |
| lcuk | zenity is the console shell script UI decision thing isnt it | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: like "/me wonders idly if flasher takes multiple img arguments" ? | 02:47 |
| lcuk | yeah! | 02:47 |
| zeltak | ahhhh success :) :) | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly the line I was about to type | 02:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: :-) | 02:48 |
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| lcuk | :) | 02:48 |
| nox- | :) | 02:48 |
| MNZ | :) | 02:48 |
| zeltak | man im sure learning some stuff today....lol.. | 02:48 |
| pigeon | can you tell modest not to do the initial imap connect on startup, it seems to be doing it even automatic e-mail check is off. | 02:48 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, ta for the O_EXCL doofer by the way, helped a lot with thinking about something | 02:48 |
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| zeltak | ok flashed succesfullt....reboot? | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 02:49 |
| MNZ | reboooot | 02:49 |
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| MNZ | s/re// | 02:49 |
| infobot | MNZ meant: boooot | 02:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and give it time to crank up stuff | 02:49 |
| lcuk | ENERGIZE | 02:49 |
| zeltak | heheh ok boooting | 02:50 |
| zeltak | kk | 02:50 |
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| * lcuk ponders what life would be like living so far away from wifey. she says i txt her more when i travel | 02:50 | |
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| zeltak | btw thx all you guys for the help..really appriciate it...i could use some good news after crashing my x200 laptop into shreds on the subway this week :) | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 02:52 |
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| zeltak | yeah thats what i said when it happens only much louder ;-) | 02:52 |
| lcuk | jees, they are tough devices | 02:52 |
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| zeltak | i know..its still semi works and its in the shop now...ill see at the end of the week what can be done.. | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | get a toughbook CF-29 :-D | 02:53 |
| zeltak | hehehe | 02:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not fast, but heavy and really ruggedized | 02:54 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, i need something tough for my desk | 02:54 |
| zeltak | ok n900 seems to boot ok...so...am i safe or do i need to make some tests now on the emmc? | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | 90cm free fall, no harm | 02:54 |
| lcuk | nice pen+capacitive driven touch surface | 02:54 |
| * lcuk needs to write on it as well as touch | 02:55 | |
| lcuk | and about a4 sized! | 02:55 |
| zeltak | wow the toughbooks actually looks cool :) http://www.buytough.com/business-mobile.asp | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: I'm short of cute ideas regarding tests. You might want to dd some 20GB from dev/zero to a file on MySpace | 02:55 |
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| zeltak | i see..ok ill do that. the thing is that i only got crashes when using emulators..thats what was weird | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and CF-27..29 can be used to place under the tire when your SUV gets stuck in a sandfield :-D | 02:57 |
| * lcuk wants sapphire glass stuff actually | 02:57 | |
| zeltak | lol..that was a good one :-) | 02:57 |
| lcuk | crowss bows fired at them etc | 02:57 |
| lcuk | but can they work as touch hmm | 02:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you lost me | 02:58 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAdku9YhSCI | 02:58 |
| lcuk | see that | 02:58 |
| zeltak | so i guess back to normal with n900..let the re-installing beginen ;-) | 02:59 |
| zeltak | thx agian guys appriciate it! | 02:59 |
| lcuk | zeltak, when you boot | 02:59 |
| lcuk | before you do much else | 02:59 |
| lcuk | could you get output of "df" please | 02:59 |
| lcuk | and save it to a file | 02:59 |
| lcuk | and when you get everything running pastebin it | 02:59 |
| lcuk | :) | 02:59 |
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| zeltak | sure lcuk | 03:00 |
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| lcuk | great :) | 03:00 |
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| zeltak | so pastbin it before the installs or now? | 03:00 |
| lcuk | before you install everything | 03:00 |
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| zeltak | kk will do it now | 03:01 |
| lcuk | so essentially we have a freespace after flash log, not sure if its anywhere | 03:01 |
| lcuk | but I always forget | 03:01 |
| lcuk | and install tonnes of stuff | 03:01 |
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| zeltak | sure np give me a sec | 03:01 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (shoot at moni) yes, and tomorrow I have a date with santa claus | 03:01 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, for future reference do you think theres a set of commands we oculd pull into a single short script to get stats | 03:02 |
| lcuk | to ask people who are having problems to run in one shot | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | which sort of stats | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, quite some... | 03:02 |
| lcuk | diskspace mounts processes + any other misc things | 03:02 |
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| lcuk | the normal stuff we ask for on regular basis | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | where's speedevil? | 03:03 |
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| lcuk | well yeah, its just a ponderment | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | seem to remember he was working on such a thing | 03:03 |
| lcuk | but if we had a single command on device we could ask | 03:03 |
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| zeltak | SHIT.... | 03:03 |
| lcuk | it would have to be very small though, minimal dependencies | 03:03 |
| lcuk | whats up | 03:03 |
| zeltak | N900 is screwed...:( :( | 03:03 |
| lcuk | in what regard | 03:04 |
| zeltak | just had a reboot..no..... | 03:04 |
| zeltak | it just frooze and rebooted | 03:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cat /proc/bootreason | 03:04 |
| zeltak | oh man....what a week... | 03:04 |
| zeltak | wow after a reboot cant open xterm... | 03:05 |
| zeltak | what-the=hellll | 03:05 |
| lcuk | "cat /proc/boot_reason" please | 03:05 |
| lcuk | hmm | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you're cheating | 03:05 |
| lcuk | why | 03:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you ls | 03:05 |
| lcuk | and zeltak do you have an extrnal mms plugged in and a sim? | 03:06 |
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| lcuk | mmc | 03:06 |
| zeltak | mms no sim yes | 03:06 |
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| zeltak | *mmc | 03:06 |
| zeltak | :) | 03:06 |
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| zeltak | i do have a sim inside | 03:06 |
| lcuk | when you say can't open xterm, what happens | 03:06 |
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| zeltak | i get a black screen saying internal error | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 03:07 |
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| zeltak | ok reboot fixed it | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | can you start other apps? | 03:07 |
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| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: yes seems so | 03:08 |
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| zeltak | i can now get access to the term after a reboot | 03:08 |
| zeltak | cat /proc/bootreason? | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | err yup, something like that | 03:08 |
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| zeltak | well it says power key but that makes sense since i did use the pkey after the xterm didnt launch | 03:09 |
| lcuk | if you manually rebooted yeah | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least if that's been an unsolicited boot | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, no | 03:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then it's not helpful | 03:09 |
| lcuk | no,have a run around and see if anything jumps again, but thats a bit unnormal | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | kinda sounds like your device is acting unstable | 03:10 |
| * lcuk nods | 03:10 | |
| zeltak | yeah...i wonder if indeed the emmc is defective but the reflashing went without issues | 03:10 |
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| lcuk | yeah theres normally lots of checking on flashing | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | not on eMMC | 03:11 |
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| lcuk | ahh where it expand fills with 0s? | 03:12 |
| lcuk | or whatever it does | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep | 03:12 |
| lcuk | to make a 500mb image occupy 30gb | 03:12 |
| * lcuk nods | 03:12 | |
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| zeltak | so what do you guys suggest..take it back or test it some more? | 03:13 |
| lcuk | zeltak, if you are in a position to get it replaced, i think i would | 03:13 |
| zeltak | lcuk: http://pastebin.com/Xn4CmVRM | 03:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dd if=/dev/zero of=~/MyDocs/xxx bs=1M count=15000 | 03:14 |
| zeltak | lcuk: well i bought it 2nd hand so its not going to be easy (even though its under warrent) | 03:14 |
| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: will do it now | 03:14 |
| lcuk | zeltak, then have a run around the device and see | 03:14 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, what cpu speed is it running at when flasher is on | 03:14 |
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| lcuk | and whilst in flash mode rather | 03:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/15000/<whatever df -h MySpace>GB * 1000 | 03:15 |
| lcuk | is it top speed? | 03:15 |
| lcuk | or some lower fraction | 03:15 |
| lcuk | or is that unknown | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | -50 for overhead | 03:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: no clue | 03:16 |
| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: the above dd dosent work | 03:17 |
| lcuk | zeltak, just install your stuff and have a poke about | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | so 'unknown' is pretty much what describes it best | 03:17 |
| lcuk | and see if it happens again | 03:17 |
| zeltak | ok lcuk | 03:17 |
| * lcuk makes a note to ask | 03:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: why? | 03:17 |
| SpacedOut | Any one else have any NAND bad blocks? I'm seeing this very early in boot "Scanning device for bad blocks" "onenand_bbt_wait: ecc error = 0x2222, controller error 0x2400" "Bad eraseblock 254 at 0x01fc0000" | 03:17 |
| lcuk | i remember my old athlon used to get hot in bios | 03:17 |
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| lcuk | SpacedOut, technically bad blocks are normal | 03:18 |
| SpacedOut | j | 03:18 |
| lcuk | the device happily marks them bad and works round them | 03:18 |
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| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: dunno it just gives me the dd options | 03:18 |
| lcuk | or something like that | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's been even a competiton afternoon here some time ago, who's got the least number of bad blocks on NAND | 03:19 |
| SpacedOut | lcuk: I rebooted and it didn't come up until I reflashed the rootfs, unfortunately I don't have an old dmesg that I know of to know if it just happened and that's why it couldn't boot or not. | 03:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | The device capacity is specced something like "256M after 1 million write cycles to each block" | 03:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: strange. probably it doesn't like the ~ | 03:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | The initial capacity is higher than this, with the expectatrion that blocks will fail in use | 03:20 |
| lcuk | hi se | 03:20 |
| SpacedOut | Interesting, one of the guys at worked checked and he didn't have any bad blocks. | 03:20 |
| zeltak | ill try with full path | 03:20 |
| SpacedOut | The flashing software also detects and writes around bad blocks as well? | 03:21 |
| SpeedEvil | SpacedOut: yes. | 03:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hi, where you've been? | 03:22 |
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| lcuk | i am off to bed anyway | 03:22 |
| lcuk | gnite chaps | 03:22 |
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| MNZ | night lcuk | 03:22 |
| cehteh | mhm .. i think my LED controller crashed .. need to pull out battery to do a cold boot to make it work again | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: yeah, and check my syntax | 03:22 |
| zeltak | thc lcuk and gdnight | 03:22 |
| zeltak | kk DocScrutinizer | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: it's late here | 03:23 |
| zeltak | :) | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: night | 03:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: :-P | 03:24 |
| cehteh | things getting too complex when something which could be done with a transistor and a resistor in the old days can crash now | 03:25 |
| luke-jr | ok, I'm wasting too much time on this | 03:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: lol | 03:25 |
| luke-jr | if anyone wants to pick up where I left off, contact me before I forget everything I did tonight | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I have been cleaning up after my fishtank leaked. | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Involving moving all furniture, ... | 03:25 |
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| zeltak | ok DocScrutinizer i think its working with full paths | 03:25 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, pick up what? | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: lcuk asked about a general diagnostics script, for 'helpdesk purposes' | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 03:26 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: telepathy-spirit on x86 Linux | 03:26 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: aka Skype w/o Skype | 03:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | I could distribute a live diagnostics program. | 03:26 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: also the only remote possibility of getting N900 video chat with desktop Linux | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Funded by retrieved credit card numbers. | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: prepare for making and drinking a cup of coffee :-P | 03:27 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, oh sweet! a quick fill in perhaps? | 03:27 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, simple script, runs once saves file in MyDocs and also somewhere else. no real extra dependencies | 03:27 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: ok, first of all, skyhost crashes in qemu-user, so don't bother trying that | 03:27 |
| lcuk | something user can be talked to plug back into desktop pc and upload | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 03:27 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: I'm working with the qemu-maemo fork on gitorious | 03:27 |
| MNZ | k, taking notes | 03:28 |
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| lcuk | gets output of the commands we ask all the time | 03:28 |
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| luke-jr | MNZ: you can dd all your /dev/mtd* together to create a mtdblock image for it, and then replace NOLO with MeeGo's NOLO, plus an extra 8 MB on the end, to make it boot in qemu | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: :-D | 03:28 |
| nox- | oh qemu knows n900 now? | 03:29 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, and keep the CC sniffing thing away. this is to be short, simple, verifiable and no personal data | 03:29 |
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| luke-jr | MNZ: to avoid overhead, I also hacked up the start of my /sbin/preinit to simply load the smc91x module (for Ethernet) and run udhcpc to get an IP, after which it just execs /bin/sh | 03:29 |
| luke-jr | nox-: a fork does | 03:29 |
| lcuk | but i am sleeping | 03:29 |
| nox- | aah | 03:29 |
| nox- | link? :) | 03:29 |
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| luke-jr | MNZ: git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/user/alban/dbus-daemon-proxy can be run on the host machine to provide dbus over TCP | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: at least neads a call to pastebinit in the end | 03:30 |
| lcuk | no, thats an extra dependency | 03:30 |
| lcuk | if we get the file stored on mydocs | 03:30 |
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| luke-jr | MNZ: the qemu side can connect to it with DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=tcp:host=10.0.2.2,port=1234,family=ipv4 (not sure that's the env var name…) | 03:30 |
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| lcuk | most people can go from there | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: there's pastbinit implemented in scripting | 03:31 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, i just want to make the process a little less painful | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | perl or sth | 03:31 |
| lcuk | not try to be too clever | 03:31 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: from there, it's a matter of making the qemu side start its telepathy-spirit and connect/auth with the real session bus, when telepathy wants it to start | 03:31 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: big unknown, and why I'm not going on right now: skyhost also has binaries 'videohost' and 'voicehost', which are probably needed for video chat too, and telepathy doesn't *really* support voice/video | 03:32 |
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| luke-jr | so how videohost/voicehost would talk to the host system is unknown at this time | 03:32 |
| luke-jr | potentially, you may need a guest-side app handling forwarding RTP | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: and, on assuming we don't want user to type in the script manually anyway, it can as well become a 200k or 2M executable of any kind | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: selfcomprised | 03:33 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, ok, all duly noted. (and in the IRC logs as well) | 03:33 |
| luke-jr | ☺ | 03:33 |
| MNZ | but you don't plan on continuing work on this? | 03:33 |
| luke-jr | it's taking too much time ☹ | 03:33 |
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| luke-jr | I really *need* it in a week from today, but I have higher priorities | 03:34 |
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| luke-jr | also, telepathy-spirit was acting odd in the VM | 03:34 |
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| luke-jr | not sure where to begin troubleshooting that | 03:34 |
| luke-jr | it sounded like it expected skyhost to *already* be running | 03:34 |
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| MNZ | I might take a detour from what I'm doing now and look into this, seems interesting. But I have a lot of downloading to do :-X | 03:34 |
| luke-jr | I'd just boot the full Maemo in the VM, but it doesn't emulate SGX, so Maemo crashes and reboots | 03:35 |
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| luke-jr | so probably one needs to figure out exactly what other stuff to run for it | 03:35 |
| MNZ | but the end result of all this? no easy solution for the avg joe? | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | nope | 03:36 |
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| luke-jr | none of the Maemo stuff is redistributable of course | 03:36 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, not *legally* anyway ;) | 03:37 |
| MNZ | though I don't intend to distribute anything illegally, just saying | 03:37 |
| * MNZ >.> <.< | 03:38 | |
| luke-jr | in theory, one could make an app that SSH's to a N900 to build the image… :p | 03:38 |
| luke-jr | then the avg joe just installs sshd, and voila | 03:38 |
| MNZ | in theory, yes. | 03:38 |
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| MNZ | I have never really used skype, so does anyone know what's the state of the linux client? it doesn't do video? | 03:42 |
| luke-jr | not with N900 | 03:43 |
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| luke-jr | nor does Mac for that matter | 03:44 |
| luke-jr | only the latest beta for Windows | 03:44 |
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| nox- | i thought theres a linux skype version with video? | 03:47 |
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| MNZ | nox-, there is apparently, it just doesn't do calls with the version on the n900 | 03:47 |
| nox- | aah | 03:48 |
| MNZ | read what luke-jr just said | 03:48 |
| nox- | yeah i should pay attention :P | 03:48 |
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| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: so far so goos..2GB... | 03:56 |
| zeltak | *good | 03:56 |
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| MNZ | I'm off to get some eye-shut time. night folks | 04:02 |
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| bince | guys some pls tell wot all i need to setup and download to make the sdk for maemo up an running in windows xp | 06:26 |
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| bince | guys some pls tell wot all i need to setup and download to make the sdk for maemo up an running in windows xp | 06:35 |
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| TermanaN900 | hey hey | 06:57 |
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| * MohammadAG51 slaps TermanaN900 | 07:18 | |
| MohammadAG51 | kinda quiet in here today | 07:18 |
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| TermanaN900 | MohammadAG51, it seems to have been kind of quiet for a few days/a week. Maybe its just me | 07:30 |
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| * scp1 yells out loud | 08:33 | |
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| * ieatlint gives a dirty look | 08:35 | |
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| RST38h | <yawn> | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | </yawn> | 08:41 |
| johnx | unclosed <yawn> tags cause oxygen leaks | 08:45 |
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| zr0 | is there a patch for the n900 email client so that it supports the IMAP IDLE extension? | 08:53 |
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| * johnx goes upgrade shopping | 09:00 | |
| johnx | last time I upgraded my desktop was ~2005 | 09:01 |
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| mece | johnx, that's when they made the best desktops! | 09:03 |
| ieatlint | you'll be pleased to know that intel brought back "turbo mode" then | 09:03 |
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| ieatlint | sadly, the tubro button has not yet returned :( | 09:03 |
| johnx | heh. the case I'll be putting mine in isn't quite old enough to have a turbo button | 09:04 |
| johnx | but it's close | 09:04 |
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| mece | does it blow compressed air into the processor? | 09:04 |
| johnx | that would be awesome | 09:05 |
| mece | yep | 09:06 |
| ieatlint | clearly it should blow nitrous into it to mimic the car craze | 09:06 |
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| mece | actually, i'm sure it would help with cooling... http://volvospeed.com/Pics/Review/innovative_turbo.jpg | 09:06 |
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| johnx | yeah, but to actually spool a turbo you'd need something with P4 levels of heat dissipation | 09:09 |
| mece | so you need another turbo to blow air on the turbo! | 09:10 |
| mece | biturbo! | 09:10 |
| scp1 | Are there any must-have applications, besides the obvious vim, mplayer etc that I've missed? | 09:10 |
| johnx | or a supercharger->turbocharger setup with the supercharger running off a belt from the CPU fan :> | 09:10 |
| mece | scp1, well I don't have vim or mplayer... | 09:10 |
| scp1 | Oh, I'm so sorry. | 09:10 |
| mece | johnx, yeah!!! I want that on my N900 | 09:11 |
| scp1 | You could lend mine for a while :p | 09:11 |
| mece | scp1, I use nano or khteditor | 09:11 |
| scp1 | I tried ines, it didnt work very well. I saw that sdlmame is being ported now, that'd be totally awesome | 09:11 |
| johnx | conboy and xournal for notes, xchat of course, omweather, stopwatch, | 09:11 |
| mece | scp1, snes works very well. | 09:12 |
| scp1 | I'm ssh'ing to the server for IM, mail and the like. | 09:12 |
| scp1 | mece, Cool, I'll try it out | 09:12 |
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| mece | scp1, I have a gamegripper though. | 09:13 |
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| scp1 | Oh, and... Is there a way I can replace the sucky terminal with something like (u)rxvt? :/ | 09:13 |
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| scp1 | mece, hah. cool stuff | 09:13 |
| mece | scp1, presence VNC is very good, if that kinda thing rocks your boat. | 09:14 |
| scp1 | I have no real use for VNC | 09:15 |
| scp1 | I'm kinda dissapointed that when coding on the n900, the flip screen thingy doesnt work :( | 09:15 |
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| johnx | you mean, you mean it doesn't auto-rotate the screen or ... ? | 09:17 |
| scp1 | yeah. | 09:18 |
| mece | here's some stuff I use: xchat, witter, mastory, mypaint, mussorgsky, scout, qlister, qspot, freeciv, free heroes 2, wesnoth, exult, fcam, drnoksnes, feedingit fmboost/transmitterwidget, comic-widget, firefox | 09:18 |
| mece | scp1, when doesn't it autorotate? | 09:18 |
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| scp1 | mece, Well when I'm in the terminal. I'd be able to see a lot more... wait. I just realized that wasnt a very good idea, since the keyboard doesnt autorotate as well. :D | 09:19 |
| mece | scp1, well for text editing try khteditor. it's quite nice, and you can rotate for browsing stuff. Very nice if you do python. | 09:20 |
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| scp1 | mece, :) I do Perl, and I can not live without Vim. Thanks though | 09:20 |
| mece | scp1, lol yeah it's kinda awkward to type sideways :D | 09:20 |
| scp1 | I must say I'm very, very pleased with the n900 though. Kind of improvement over my 3310! :) | 09:21 |
| mece | scp1, 3310 is an epic phone! | 09:22 |
| Corsac | nothing can beat 3310 | 09:22 |
| Corsac | except maybe 3210 | 09:22 |
| mece | oh wait 3210 was the phone I meant! | 09:22 |
| mece | yeah. my 3210 survived 2 toilet falls | 09:23 |
| Corsac | I'm not sure we want to hear that story | 09:23 |
| mece | it's not gross. The bowl was clean both times. | 09:23 |
| Corsac | that's what she said | 09:24 |
| johnx | iNES seems to work just fine here ... except the N900 keyboard is kind awkward | 09:24 |
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| johnx | especially using my right hand for directions and my left for A+B | 09:24 |
| mece | the first time I was cleaning the toilet while talking on the phone, and the second time I was drunk and had it in my phone pocket. | 09:24 |
| mece | johnx, gamegripper! | 09:24 |
| johnx | nintendo DS and/or pandora :) | 09:25 |
| scp1 | johnx, the framerate isnt very good... | 09:25 |
| johnx | it seems about 90%+ to me | 09:25 |
| scp1 | I havent overclocked mine yet though, maybe you have? | 09:25 |
| johnx | heck no :) | 09:25 |
| mece | scp1, that's strange. framerate on snes i quite nice imo. No overclocking | 09:25 |
| scp1 | hmm | 09:26 |
| johnx | I don't have the money to replace this thing when the CPU burns up | 09:26 |
| johnx | mece, is that with or without sound? | 09:26 |
| mece | johnx, with | 09:26 |
| johnx | impressive | 09:26 |
| mece | johnx, I don't have that many games though. But Mortal Kombat is very smooth. | 09:26 |
| mece | and for me completely impossible without the gamegripper. | 09:27 |
| johnx | I love the idea of playing a nice relaxing SNES RPG on my N900 ... but the reality is I rarely find myself in the situation where I have it but not some other form of entertainment | 09:28 |
| scp1 | I've just installed the Easy-Debian chroot and rebooted, and it just sits on the loading screen and doing nothing... | 09:28 |
| Dassu | johnx: same here | 09:28 |
| mece | johnx, I play on the can | 09:28 |
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| mece | scp1, hmm | 09:29 |
| mece | scp1, debian loading screen or maemo? | 09:29 |
| johnx | mece, I just tend to read | 09:29 |
| scp1 | mece, maemo | 09:29 |
| mece | scp1, well that kinda blows doesn't it. | 09:29 |
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| johnx | scp1, did you happen to install bootmenu already? | 09:29 |
| scp1 | johnx, hmm, no | 09:30 |
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| johnx | well, you're hosed. reflash | 09:30 |
| scp1 | what :| | 09:30 |
| mece | reboot once first and see if it helps | 09:30 |
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| johnx | sorry to be so blunt...but if you can't get in to fix things up, you start running out of options really fast | 09:30 |
| scp1 | Yeah I did. Still the same thing.. | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | we do have a rescue initrd fwiw | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:31 |
| mece | damn | 09:31 |
| * DocScrutinizer moos at Stskeeps | 09:31 | |
| Stskeeps | moo DocScrutinizer | 09:31 |
| mece | \o Stskeeps | 09:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: (initrd) so you say, we can select which kernel or at least which rootfs to use for boot? as in "system A fsckd up completely - no problem, boot to B and fix A" ? | 09:33 |
| scp1 | shit. :C | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: no, actual shell to play around with | 09:33 |
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| Stskeeps | and go in and fix something | 09:34 |
| scp1 | 'switch off the device and install the .deb with...'. How on earth should I install something when it's turned off? :/ | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: so still useless to do things like partitioning changes, initscript tweaking, etc... | 09:35 |
| johnx | uhm, is there a flashable rescue initrd? | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, we're developing one in meego | 09:36 |
| mece | Stskeeps, wow, that's awesome! | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd | 09:37 |
| johnx | ah, very cool | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | contributions welcome | 09:37 |
| johnx | scp1, you're saved. | 09:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | rom above 2 lines of convo I don't see the usecase | 09:37 |
| * johnx apologizes for predictions of doom and gloom that were behind the times | 09:37 | |
| scp1 | wait. I shall not http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Linux do that anymore? ;o | 09:38 |
| johnx | scp1, yeah. go to the page Stskeeps linked | 09:38 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, huh. if you can get a shell that has chroot, you're off to a good start at least | 09:39 |
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| scp1 | I'm not sure how that would help me, well, I'm not sure what I should do once I get a shell | 09:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, IF system has sane kernel, sane modules for kernel, sane messybox to run initscripts, sane upstart, sane initscripts and events scripts... otherwise I won't even see bootmenu - am I missing something? | 09:40 |
| johnx | scp1, remove the whatever debian added to your boot sequence ... | 09:40 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, AFAIU, this hooks in pre-init and lets you make some choices from there, like getting a shell, etc | 09:41 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: hi - I got the flasher .deb installed on the eeepc ok. :) Am I right in thinking there are three things to flash? Combined, Vanilla and Installer ? | 09:41 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | what order to fire them in there? | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | flasher isn't flashed itself :-) | 09:42 |
| johnx | jpinx-eeepc, two things to install, the OS and an image for the emmc | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | err installer | 09:42 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | ah - ok - so Vanilla first? | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 09:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though wiki tells different | 09:42 |
| jpinx-eeepc | that's why I am asking here ;) | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | omit the -R parameters! | 09:43 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | what options for the flash? flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R | 09:43 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Oh .. ok | 09:43 |
| jpinx-eeepc | just the -f | 09:43 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | what about the first -F ? | 09:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no manpage for flasher on top of my head. cmdline as in ~flashing is correct, minus the -R | 09:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flashing | 09:45 |
| infobot | somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 09:45 |
| jpinx-eeepc | :) | 09:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flash vanilla (without -R), switch off device, flash combined as usual. DO NOT BOOT in beetween | 09:46 |
| scp1 | uhm. are you sure those instructions are correct? | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | means : keep 'u' pressed, and switch on device implicitly by pluggin in USB | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | scp1: yes, I am! | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | you think they are incorrect? | 09:47 |
| scp1 | docscrutinizer, http://codepad.org/eBibj6NM this is intended? | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't know codepad | 09:48 |
| scp1 | what? | 09:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I won't click on arbitrary URLs offered to me as bait | 09:48 |
| scp1 | lol | 09:48 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, looks like a pastebin clone | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 09:49 |
| johnx | uhm, no, I don't think that looks entirely right scp1 | 09:49 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | how do I know when It's finished flashing VANILLA over? | 09:49 |
| johnx | the flasher should return to a prompt | 09:50 |
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| lbt | hi johnx | 09:50 |
| johnx | mornin' lbt :) | 09:50 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | ok - that was vanilla -- now for combined | 09:50 |
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| johnx | scp1, your download was corrupt | 09:51 |
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| scp1 | I downloaded them 3 times man | 09:52 |
| johnx | one sec | 09:52 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | johnx: is combined very small/quick? It seems to flash in a second | 09:52 |
| johnx | john@Schala:~/tmp$ md5sum *rpm | 09:52 |
| johnx | c8c68f5e5b2d350cab1b9a0c48d49db9 kernel-n900-2.6.33.3-11.2.armv7l.rpm | 09:52 |
| johnx | 14397dadd7be2505e8e65cbc80dac3a7 nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm | 09:52 |
| scp1 | they are correct | 09:53 |
| johnx | scp1, then your cpio or rpm2cpio is broken? | 09:53 |
| * johnx shrugs | 09:53 | |
| scp1 | >_> | 09:53 |
| scp1 | should I just reflash it with that previous method... | 09:53 |
| johnx | you could | 09:53 |
| johnx | you're the one who has to weight the cost/benefit ratio | 09:54 |
| johnx | s/weight/weigh | 09:54 |
| scp1 | Well I need it at least booting :p | 09:54 |
| johnx | I give it good odds, that you could get it properly booting with the rescue method in an hour or two | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: yes | 09:55 |
| johnx | if you have a lot of hacks and customizations already applied it's probably faster to recover | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | takes like 5s | 09:55 |
| johnx | if you're ok starting fresh, then just reflash now | 09:55 |
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| scp1 | jesus. there is no 64 bit version of the flasher app... | 09:56 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: ok - seems to have done, pulled the cables, but the faint NOKA is still on the screen and it won't boot | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | takes some time | 09:56 |
| jpinx-eeepc | "some time" as in ten minutes? and hour? | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | but of course if you omitted -R, you need to switch off and power on manually to boot | 09:57 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: it refuses to power down when I hold the button | 09:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | takeout battery | 09:57 |
| jpinx-eeepc | so I assume it's still munching stuff | 09:57 |
| scp1 | Looks like I'm truly fucked. I cant even run the flash app | 09:57 |
| jpinx-eeepc | scp1: I saw something about 64 bit flashers in the wiki | 09:58 |
| scp1 | Yes... but I dont use dpkg | 09:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: check diagnostics output of flasher to verify flashing rootfs went ok | 09:58 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: errr.. where is that logged? | 09:59 |
| johnx | scp1, a .deb is an ar archive... | 09:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not a question of time it takes, but a matter of "ok" on diagnostic output | 09:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | on your screen where you entered the flasher command | 09:59 |
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| johnx | jpinx-eeepc, what did the flasher print when it was run? take that, copy it to pastebin.ca, then give us a link | 09:59 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | scp1: oki doki | 10:00 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | sorry - that was for johnx | 10:00 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | johnx: http://paste.debian.net/86834/ | 10:03 |
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| johnx | looks like it didn't even start flashing | 10:03 |
| johnx | did you connect the N900 through a hub? | 10:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Hmmm - I did it several times | 10:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | nope, but I'll try a different USB port on the eeepc | 10:04 |
| johnx | also, are you using the Nokia cable or another one? | 10:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | nokia cable | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: switch off N900, then start flashing rootfs as usual (and like advised in wiki) | 10:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: means: start flasher, hold 'u' on N900, plug in usb, N900 will power up automagically - DO NOT power up via power button | 10:06 |
| jpinx-eeepc | ok . did a battery-out to kill the n900, now I'll do both flashes again and paste the full output | 10:06 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: yep the power up with u held worked as it said in the destructions | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | you only need to do the rootfs flash, when eMMC flash succeeded before | 10:06 |
| scp1 | what on earth is the 'FIASCO' image? I cant find it | 10:07 |
| jpinx-eeepc | is eMMC the COMBINED ia the rootfs? | 10:07 |
| jpinx-eeepc | all these names make life confusing | 10:07 |
| scp1 | indeed | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the nice thing on "eMMC first, THEN rootfs" - even an accidental boot in between isn't really harmful | 10:07 |
| johnx | scp1, it's the .bin linked from the wiki | 10:08 |
| Duckboot | Please ppl: http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing | 10:08 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Duckboot: the wiki sux | 10:08 |
| Duckboot | Read it tenf9olds of times | 10:08 |
| scp1 | johnx, there are like a zillion on them on that url | 10:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eMMC == *VANILLA*, rootfs&stuff == *COMBINED* | 10:08 |
| Duckboot | jpinx-eeepc: I read the wiki, and flashed. No probs really. | 10:08 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: ok -- I did vanilla first as you said | 10:09 |
| johnx | scp1, latest combined is what you need | 10:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: do I start over again and do vanilla again? | 10:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 10:09 |
| johnx | jpinx-eeepc, no need | 10:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | ok | 10:10 |
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| scp1 | jpinx-eeepc, thank you | 10:10 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | ah - that looks better, it's taking it's time to flash that over this time | 10:12 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I appended > flasher.log to the command so the the full output will be seen | 10:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 10:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if everything work ok, we won't need the output. We've all seen several times | 10:13 |
| johnx | heh. the standard rule: as soon as you add enough debugging output the problem goes away :) | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | odds are however you'll not notice a stall... :-S | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | as you don't see live output | 10:13 |
| johnx | tee FTW | 10:14 |
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| * DocScrutinizer suggests appending ` | tee flasher.log` instead | 10:14 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: "CMT flashed successfully" - do you really want to see the details? | 10:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flashing rootfs shouldn't take longer than 60s afak | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, that's all fine :-) | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | now power down and boot | 10:16 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | booting.... | 10:16 |
| jpinx-eeepc | blinking dots...... | 10:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer looks at today's ToDo, searching for a time slot to finally fix that friggin confusing wiki flashing instructions for good | 10:17 | |
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| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: I'll give it some time later if you like | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 10:17 |
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| * jpinx-eeepc does the debian wiki sometimes | 10:17 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: better someone does who knows a 200 successful flashing events and the confusion of users that came up during those | 10:18 |
| jpinx-eeepc | heh | 10:19 |
| jpinx-eeepc | ok - accepted new language, location time/date etc. now to see if it'll update | 10:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | the wiki as is now is so confusing largely due to a lot of people edited in in, used different terminologies, and couldn't resist to mention they feeded their dog during 2nd try of first flash, "dunno if it really matters" | 10:20 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | yea - I know how that goes ;) | 10:21 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo hrw | 10:22 |
| crashanddie | moo | 10:22 |
| johnx | also, that part of the wiki was originally written for the N800 and flasher-3 I think | 10:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep | 10:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: already seeing some better goings-on - the previous owner of this n900 possibly screwed himself up a bit | 10:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that power plug nonsense (it IS nonsense for N900, evidently) is highly confusing | 10:25 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: tbh the whole thing would be clearer if there was one page for each device/model | 10:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: yeah, probably a case of "wut, doesn't work? FFS! Meh, sell the shit and get an iphone" | 10:26 |
| jpinx-eeepc | he admitted that he had got an iphone ;) | 10:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: exactly what I'm planning to do | 10:27 |
| jpinx-eeepc | cool - I have to go teaching again now, but back later to see if this beastie will update and install stuff properly | 10:27 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | very happy that is behaving better already :D | 10:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 10:28 |
| crashanddie | who uses twitter here? | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll love it, if you are willing to learn and RTFM | 10:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, this isn't twitter??? | 10:29 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: I installed debain on my eeepc - I'll get this N900 to work for me ;) | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the right spirit | 10:30 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: ping | 10:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: isn't twitter that reinvention of ##mychan by using browser and ajax? | 10:32 |
| crashanddie | dunno | 10:32 |
| crashanddie | Every six months or so I wonder whether I should use it or not | 10:32 |
| crashanddie | I ask people to convince me, but nobody did a very good job of it yet | 10:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | neither will I | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 10:33 |
| johnx | crashanddie, I guess that some authors tend to write clever observational things there | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | twitter == irc for noobs :-P | 10:33 |
| johnx | if you follow a whole bunch of RSS feeds, it might be fun to add a couple twittr feeds to that list (or something) | 10:34 |
| * johnx makes half-hearted argument for twitter, fails | 10:34 | |
| crashanddie | I don't follow RSS feeds | 10:34 |
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| crashanddie | plus, all the usernames I'd fancy are already taken | 10:35 |
| kerio | twitter is IRC for egocentrics, with less space | 10:35 |
| crashanddie | unless I go for mwkntestaccount1 or mwkntestaccount2 | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: that as well | 10:35 |
| crashanddie | which I have registered | 10:35 |
| crashanddie | funny thing is, those accounts never sent anything | 10:35 |
| crashanddie | were marked private immediately | 10:35 |
| crashanddie | and there's like a dozen people following me | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 10:36 |
| kerio | nice | 10:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer sees a picture: a herd of sheep following a butterfly, mesmerized | 10:36 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, Jaffa, convince me to tweet | 10:37 |
| johnx | off-topic: how the *&$% does anyone buy a desktop computer these days? I have *no* clue what is worth what and who to trust in terms of mainboards | 10:37 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: hurd | 10:37 |
| crashanddie | johnx: you mean motherboards? | 10:37 |
| johnx | whatever | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, knew I should have hit shift-lextra-y | 10:38 |
| crashanddie | johnx: I have the same problem, admittedly | 10:38 |
| johnx | see, even my terminology is out of date O_o; | 10:38 |
| crashanddie | johnx: motherboards were called motherboards for the past 20 years, lol | 10:38 |
| crashanddie | johnx: maybe not in your cave, but that's just your seattle accent | 10:38 |
| johnx | I've heard mainboard in some circles. mobo in other circles | 10:39 |
| hrw | johnx: intel or amd? | 10:39 |
| kerio | ARM! | 10:39 |
| johnx | I think AMD looks like a better deal for more cores right now | 10:39 |
| johnx | so I was going to go with them | 10:39 |
| jpinx-eeepc | just a quickie - how to zoom in/out with the browser? | 10:39 |
| crashanddie | johnx: go for intel i7, buy it off dell.com, less hassle | 10:39 |
| kerio | volkeys | 10:39 |
| kerio | or draw a circle | 10:39 |
| crashanddie | jpinx-eeepc: circle with stylus | 10:39 |
| jpinx-eeepc | kerio: tks | 10:39 |
| johnx | jpinx-eeepc, swirl your finger, or double tap, or hit the volume keys | 10:39 |
| kerio | or doubletap | 10:39 |
| * crashanddie awards 2 points to kerio for speed, 2 points to johnx for brevity | 10:40 | |
| hrw | johnx: grab something with 8xx chipset and usb3.0 support. 4 banks of ddr3 and 2x pcie x16 | 10:40 |
| crashanddie | IT'S A DRAW | 10:40 |
| jpinx-eeepc | vol ctrl is good :) | 10:40 |
| * hrw uses opera mobile only | 10:40 | |
| kerio | you can probably also use dbus! | 10:40 |
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| crashanddie | hrw: opera ftw | 10:40 |
| jpinx-eeepc | might get this connected quicker than I thought now I can see where to enter the password ) | 10:40 |
| johnx | hrw, thanks for the tip on the chipset. was about to get a 7xx | 10:40 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: whatever you do. dont buy cheap. especially the mainboard ... | 10:40 |
| johnx | crashanddie, budget isn't there for an i7 right now :P | 10:41 |
| kerio | i'd buy an imac | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | johnx: then don't buy | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures | 10:41 |
| nid0 | motherboard wise not a great deal has changed since abit shut down. anything by asus will come with a premium price, intel boards are solid but generally basic, dfi boards are alright, gigabyte are generally a bit on the cheapo side | 10:41 |
| hrw | johnx: 8xx gives you southbridge with sata 6Gbps - can be handy when you buy fast ssd | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | kerio++ | 10:41 |
| johnx | crashanddie, thanks. that's totally unhelpful | 10:41 |
| kerio | the 27" is a fucking beast | 10:41 |
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| crashanddie | kerio: yeah, have one at work | 10:41 |
| johnx | kerio, with $350, you'd buy an imac? | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | 5 point to me for best answer | 10:41 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: nice one :) | 10:41 |
| crashanddie | johnx: nope, I' buy new heads for my drumkit | 10:42 |
| kerio | johnx: i'd buy a pair of headphones :| | 10:42 |
| crashanddie | johnx: with $350, you can buy a netbook | 10:42 |
| johnx | nid0, aaah, now that's what I wanted to know :) thanks | 10:42 |
| crashanddie | johnx: it usually works better to tell the budget and aimed use first | 10:42 |
| * kerio sometimes wonders if he has too much expendable income | 10:43 | |
| hrw | johnx: 350$ is all you have for computer? | 10:43 |
| johnx | hrw, i don't really see spending more *shrugs* | 10:43 |
| crashanddie | kerio: same here | 10:43 |
| johnx | it'd cut into my beer fund :P | 10:43 |
| crashanddie | you have a beer fund? | 10:43 |
| kerio | stop drinking, buy mac pro | 10:43 |
| Flyser_ | I own two intel mainboards. they are okay with some minor annoyances | 10:43 |
| kerio | wtf is a mainboard | 10:44 |
| crashanddie | like, every week you dump money into an account where a broker buys beer for you? | 10:44 |
| hrw | my next desktop will cost ~1K$ for cpu/ram/mb | 10:44 |
| crashanddie | kerio: motherboard | 10:44 |
| nid0 | mainboard == motherboard | 10:44 |
| nid0 | interchangable terms | 10:44 |
| kerio | crashanddie: lol | 10:44 |
| johnx | I'm actually just fine with my A64 3000+ / 1GB RAM, but apparently to develop anything for meego I need VT extensions and SSE3 | 10:44 |
| kerio | if the market goes down you get crappy root beer | 10:44 |
| hrw | johnx: search for better a64 then | 10:44 |
| johnx | uhm, I'm on socket 939 | 10:44 |
| hrw | johnx: you have am2 one or 939? | 10:44 |
| johnx | heh | 10:45 |
| johnx | yeah | 10:45 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: a 30$ Celeron will work fine | 10:45 |
| johnx | that old | 10:45 |
| crashanddie | johnx, nid0: "The term mainboard is archaically applied to devices with a single board and no additional expansions or capability. In modern terms this would include embedded systems and controlling boards in televisions, washing machines, etc. A motherboard specifically refers to a printed circuit with the capability to add/extend its performance." | 10:45 |
| hrw | 939... I have 3200+ singlecore somewhere in drawer | 10:45 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: oops. I mean a 70$ pentium. Celerons dont have VT | 10:45 |
| johnx | Flyser_, I mean, I'm not strapped for cash. I figure I'll set a price point of $350 then let myself be convinced to spend a bit more or a bit less | 10:45 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: I can recommend the Intel Pentium E6300 | 10:45 |
| crashanddie | johnx: then set a price point of $500, and then start hunting | 10:45 |
| crashanddie | johnx: $350 will get you a granny wallmart desktop that was built to power botnets | 10:46 |
| hrw | johnx: grab intel775 mainboard with P35 chipset, put there ddr2 ram and cpu with vt/sse3 | 10:46 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: do you want dedicated graphics or is an intel gpu sufficent? | 10:46 |
| johnx | crashanddie, I don't need a hard drive or case or even video card initially. That's why I'm not going prebuilt | 10:46 |
| hrw | johnx: or G43/G45 to have onboard graphics (microatx usually) | 10:47 |
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| hrw | my q6600 (core2quad) has vt/sse3 and is few years old | 10:47 |
| Flyser_ | I would recommend G43/45 too | 10:47 |
| johnx | the Pentium E6300 is the dual core, right? | 10:47 |
| hrw | johnx: yes | 10:47 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: yes | 10:47 |
| hrw | johnx: all 'Pentium' todays are dualcore | 10:47 |
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| johnx | crashanddie, uhm, you have an interesting approach to budgeting ... | 10:48 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: its like a core 2 duo, just slightly slower | 10:48 |
| Flyser_ | but _much_ cheaper | 10:48 |
| johnx | yeah, saw that | 10:48 |
| johnx | still thinking 4 cores might be nice | 10:48 |
| kerio | johnx: crashanddie's idea of budgeting is "spend more" | 10:48 |
| hrw | johnx: core2quad can be more expensive - check for used q6600 | 10:48 |
| johnx | I'll price up an intel and an AMD | 10:48 |
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| Flyser_ | I recently upgraded my Pentium E6300 to a Core 2 Duo E6500 and I didn't notice a huge difference to be honest | 10:49 |
| hrw | q6600 can be overclocked nicely (if someone needs) | 10:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | [[to all our listeners who joined in recently - we're still in double-u double-u #maemo I R C, on freenode 98.3. You missed the best of our daily OT discussion, this time the topic is "how many cores til core meltdown?", enjoy our program, and ... DON'T TUCH THAT DIAL! ]] | 10:49 |
| crashanddie | Khertan1: ping | 10:49 |
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| Flyser_ | DocScrutinizer: LOL | 10:50 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, sorry for dragging us into off-topicness ... but I figured if twitter was the topic, this wasn't *much* worse O_o; | 10:50 |
| crashanddie | Hey, I was just asking to be convinced by a bunch of twits | 10:50 |
| crashanddie | they didn't respond to the call | 10:50 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: just takes one... in some time we'll see an n900 having a core meltdown | 10:51 |
| crashanddie | by the way, DocScrutinizer, interesting to see you press the off-topic alarm :D | 10:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just up for a pun :-D | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | no alarm intended | 10:51 |
| Flyser_ | johnx: I think $350 should be okay, if you don't need a harddrive or case. At least here in europe. I don't know how expensive electronics is in the US these days. | 10:52 |
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| Flyser_ | is=are | 10:52 |
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| johnx | Flyser_, pretty reasonable it seems. I mean, if I don't feel like my 3000+ single-core is slow, I probably won't feel like pretty much any new CPU is slow | 10:53 |
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| Flyser_ | I think a Pentium E6300 (just make sure you dont get a Core 2 Duo E6300, which is slower) should _easily_ beat your 3000+ | 10:54 |
| johnx | yeah. the newer atoms are coming close these days. heh | 10:55 |
| Flyser_ | probably more than double the speed | 10:55 |
| Flyser_ | :) | 10:55 |
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| johnx | thanks for the tips guys :) know what chipset to look for at least is a good start | 10:56 |
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| scp1 | johnx, Thanks a lot for the help, finally it booted | 10:57 |
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| johnx | scp1, woo! too bad you couldn't recover though | 10:58 |
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| johnx | might want to install bootmenu first thing | 10:58 |
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| scp1 | johnx, doesnt matter really since I got it today :) | 10:58 |
| scp1 | bootmenu hmm... like grub? ;o | 10:58 |
| johnx | kinda, but totally different in implementation | 10:58 |
| johnx | grub is pre-kernel | 10:58 |
| johnx | bootmenu is post-kernel, pre-init | 10:59 |
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| johnx | but just what you need to get a shell or start a telnet server on usb-ethernet | 10:59 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: go down to arndale shopping center, there's a topman place with reasonably priced suits | 11:00 |
| scp1 | johnx, ah. cool. installing that now... I dont know if I dare to try debian again :/ | 11:00 |
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| johnx | scp1, well, once you have recovery options, it makes things a bit more sane | 11:01 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: still fails the updates -- error at pastebin.com/HRQzmnf0 | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | libsdl is fsckdup lately, I heard | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | shouldn't turn out to be a showstopper though | 11:03 |
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| mece | jpinx-eeepc, wesnoth? | 11:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it gives "no updates available" | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: you restored from backup? | 11:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: this is a newly flashed OS | 11:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | nothing to backup | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: "no updates available" is a rather sane thing then | 11:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | no updates needed ? | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are no updates for core system | 11:05 |
| jpinx-eeepc | not available tells me I can't connect | 11:05 |
| jpinx-eeepc | or it is failing | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | just go ahead install new apps as you like | 11:05 |
| jpinx-eeepc | hmm - sudo wants a password - no idea what that is | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, not available means there are none | 11:06 |
| mece | jpinx-eeepc, install rootsh | 11:06 |
| mece | and type root | 11:06 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: you might change the wording on that :) | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | *ME*???? | 11:06 |
| jpinx-eeepc | mece: how can I install if I am not root ? | 11:06 |
| mece | jpinx-eeepc, app manager... or is that the problem? | 11:07 |
| * jpinx-eeepc thought DocScrutinizer was omnipotent ;) | 11:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer | via application managed, which btw is the recommended method almost all of the time | 11:07 |
| jpinx-eeepc | mece: going in circles here ;) | 11:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: maybe I am :-P but there are things I don't care, though even I could | 11:07 |
| jpinx-eeepc | ok - back to appmngr to see if it'll do rootsh | 11:07 |
| jpinx-eeepc | :) | 11:08 |
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| nid0 | well impressed with nokia's take on live wallpaper in ovi tbh | 11:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: in app manager click "install", click "all" type rootsh on kbd | 11:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nid0: I have other means to bring my system to a grinding halt :-P | 11:09 |
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| nid0 | yeah except funnily, it doesnt do so. it skyrocket's cpu usage while actually having the desktop visible, but the device is still perfectly responsive | 11:10 |
| johnx | thankfully they remembered how to use nice(1) | 11:11 |
| mece | nid0, what is did they say about live wallpapaer on ovi? | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: except there's no nice(1) on maemo stock X-P | 11:11 |
| nid0 | mece: ? | 11:11 |
| mece | " nid0: well impressed with nokia's take on live wallpaper in ovi tbh" <- what does that mean? | 11:12 |
| nid0 | mece: sorry I might not have been clear, nokia have released an application called gas-balls to ovi which runs as a live wallpaper | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: messybox - what for do you need `nice` ?? | 11:12 |
| nid0 | not using the livewallpaper extras app | 11:12 |
| mece | nid0, ah I see. | 11:12 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, well the command is there, just no man pages :P | 11:12 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: hmm... like overclocking the cpu to 2ghz? | 11:12 |
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| johnx | real linux geeks have already RTFM :P | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh?! | 11:12 |
| kerio | (grinding halt) | 11:12 |
| kerio | well, it's less grinding and more blowing up | 11:12 |
| kerio | but it'll still stop pretty soon anyway | 11:13 |
| kerio | :) | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | in my box messybox doesn't know nice | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | just renice | 11:13 |
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| mece | johnx, afaict linux geeks only say RTFM, nobody actually RTFM | 11:13 |
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| johnx | mece, or on slashdot where it's RTFA :) | 11:14 |
| mece | ok well, I'm off. ta. | 11:14 |
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| hrw | ~curse devs which do not share sources | 11:22 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, devs which do not share sources ! | 11:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx: damn, that was another life, err OS where messybox missed the nice | 11:25 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, thought so. maybe on the N8x0? | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart messybox and its annoying configurability | 11:26 |
| * infobot hereby declares messybox and its annoying configurability a troll | 11:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: might be OE | 11:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka OM | 11:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx: funny enough some specialists invented a duct tape botch to do `nice` in a small shell script, using something along the lines >$@&; renice %1 | 11:29 |
| jpinx-N900 | DocScrutinizer51: :) | 11:30 |
| jpinx-N900 | but 8 can,t see my own nick :( | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeh? | 11:30 |
| jpinx-N900 | this is jpinx | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yepyepyep | 11:31 |
| jpinx-N900 | on irssi on the N900 | 11:31 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, strangely that's also the answer to "What does a shell programmer scream if you trip him while he's carrying coffee?" | 11:31 |
| jpinx-N900 | but I can,t see my own nick :( | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: X-P | 11:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-N900: we see it - so that's fine ;-) | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-N900: honestly, no idea bout it but that's a irssi problem I bet | 11:33 |
| * DocScrutinizer is using xchat, and quite happy with it | 11:34 | |
| jpinx-N900 | yea stupid colors | 11:34 |
| jacekowski | no | 11:34 |
| jacekowski | irssi doesn't have problems | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | PEBKAC | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | as always | 11:34 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | "if you want to avoid problems with yur computer, then don't sit in front of it, hell don't even switch it on" | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo Jaffa | 11:36 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: I can't convince you, I'm afraid | 11:36 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: just signed up | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | OHNOES | 11:36 |
| crashanddie | ohyesh | 11:37 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: do you use it? | 11:37 |
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| villager | DocScrutinizer: similarly, if you want to avoid a crappy life, just commit suicide... | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | villager: exactly | 11:38 |
| johnx | ... and now presenting #maemo with simple answers to complex problems ... | 11:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's meta pebkac. pebsag | 11:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | problem exists between sky and ground | 11:38 |
| johnx | aaah, I parsed that as sub and gag | 11:39 |
| johnx | your way makes more sense in context | 11:39 |
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| Khertan | Morning all ! | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo | 11:42 |
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| villager | I'm sure there are some problems that exists above sky or below ground... maybe solar flares frying electronics (especially electronics in orbit)... or disturbances in the earth's magnetic field (which is generated below ground) and stuff... | 11:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yoh | 11:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm sure for every ticket marked PEBKAC there as well were concurrent unrelated problems anywhere else in this universe | 11:47 |
| * johnx checks his BOFH calendar | 11:48 | |
| villager | perhaps, but do they have tickets too? | 11:48 |
| johnx | the problem is caused by electrostatic discharge. wrap your head in aluminum foil | 11:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: ^^^ | 11:50 |
| jpinx-eeepc | what did I miss? | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: so jacekowski was right - irssi has no problems | 11:50 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it's got someissues, but possibly resolveable | 11:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: wrap your head in alu foil and problem of invisible nick is gone | 11:51 |
| jpinx-eeepc | default colours are pants | 11:51 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | and it real should be black background, not white | 11:51 |
| Nils^ | hi people. n900 is stuck in an reboot loop after upgrading packages (I suspect "kernel power"). Only chance is reflashing? | 11:51 |
| jpinx-eeepc | and I will have to remember how to make it behave like this one - it's been a while since I messed with it | 11:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nils^: basically yes | 11:52 |
| X-Fade | Nils^: Try flashing the kernel only? | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | you *might* succeed in flashing 'old' kernel only | 11:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but then, you most probably got powerkernel compatible modules, and there's no powerkernel image to flash via flasher afaik | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | and no way to replace modules by the stock ones, without reflashing whole rootfs | 11:54 |
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| johnx | download the powerkernel package, extract it, flash kernel image | 11:55 |
| johnx | or am I missing something? | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | errm yup, I don't think the package contains a kernel in a format siutable for flasher | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I could be wrong on that | 11:56 |
| Nils^ | I'll just flash the whole thing. I see no problem | 11:56 |
| johnx | what does "suitable for flasher" mean? it's just a kernel image... | 11:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no idea about format which flasher expects | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://imagebin.org/112079 | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe it's plain 'binary' image, but I doubt that | 11:57 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, very pretty. uhm, what *is* it? | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: heh! nice background :-D where do I download that one? | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: looks like uBoot | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: we found out by accident nolo is able to load u-boot.bin | 11:59 |
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| Nils^ | PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1 is correct? | 11:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: so ali1234's working on making a workable u-boot, had it working with qemu-n900 for instance and real n900 | 11:59 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, and I think that the N900's onboard flasher and flasher-3.5 can use the same kernel and initrd image, but maybe I'm confused | 11:59 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, aaah, awesome. I totally forgot the N900 doesn't normally use u-boot | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: hmm, you might be right | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: best part is that n8x0 might be able to do it too :P | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | and we've all been idiots for not discovering this earlier ;) | 12:00 |
| johnx | you just have to tell flasher-3.5 that you're handing it a plain kernel image with -k | 12:00 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, >_< (that's if the N8x0 could do that all along) | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: only way we discovered it was cos some guy tried to boot a samsung u-boot in the qemu-n900 | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:01 |
| johnx | ha! that's awesome | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | completely wrong approach, but interesting result | 12:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | boot chainloader - Nolo doesn't care if it's a kernel, uBoot or some arbitrary other nonsense it loads to RAM and executes | 12:02 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, the problem is, all us guys on the Mer project had kind of ... spotty ... backgrounds when it comes to embedded stuff | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | one bootloader loading next bootloader is seen frequently on multiboot machines | 12:02 |
| johnx | it never really occurred to me at least | 12:03 |
| johnx | anyways, congrats Stskeeps | 12:03 |
| johnx | time for sleep, here | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: heh, i think it was a benefit we didn't | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | we didn't have the same corruption of the mind | 12:04 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: on dualboot machines it's common to have a bootloader refer to the other | 12:05 |
| kerio | so you can constantly move between them | 12:05 |
| kerio | it's fun! | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 12:05 |
| Appiah | wow , that's your idea of fun? :) | 12:05 |
| kerio | well, that and team fortress 2 | 12:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if grub doesn't know how to corretly boot up some weird OS, just let it load the weirdOS-bootloader instead | 12:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | postal | 12:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | according to a friend of mine it *must* be fun | 12:10 |
| jacekowski | hmm, only fps i like was first unreal tournamend | 12:10 |
| jacekowski | tournament* | 12:10 |
| jacekowski | and hmm, mohaa | 12:10 |
| jpinx-eeepc | will maemo take a virtual machine? | 12:10 |
| jacekowski | jpinx-eeepc: slowly | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 12:11 |
| jpinx-eeepc | :) | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on your definition of VM | 12:11 |
| jpinx-eeepc | xen | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 12:11 |
| jacekowski | no | 12:11 |
| jacekowski | xen depends on x86 | 12:11 |
| jacekowski | or amd64 | 12:11 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | Hmm - just an idle thought :) | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html though | 12:12 |
| jpinx-eeepc | there's always some who does it... | 12:13 |
| jacekowski | hmm, qemu would be better | 12:13 |
| jacekowski | qemu can do JUT | 12:13 |
| jacekowski | JIT | 12:13 |
| Nils^ | strange. I cannot flash, the executable refuses to work. I'm on linux 64. I flashed the n900 once with exactly the same system, but I deinstalled all multilibs in between. Is the flasher a 32bit app? | 12:13 |
| jacekowski | Nils^: yes | 12:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~flashing | 12:13 |
| infobot | i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 12:13 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | Nils^: you need to force the arcchiteccture iirc | 12:14 |
| Nils^ | jpinx-eeepc: I did not install it | 12:15 |
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| Nils^ | does anyone know what the runtime deps for the flasher are? | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | libusb | 12:18 |
| Nils^ | so I can install the 32bit variants again | 12:18 |
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| Nils^ | yes, now... | 12:19 |
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| Nils^ | ah, the nokia hands again. thanks all | 12:22 |
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| kerio | maemo5 annoyance - boot stops to ask for the pin | 12:36 |
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| Appiah | hmm? | 12:39 |
| X-Fade | kerio: Turn off your pin? | 12:39 |
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| kerio | X-Fade: NEIN | 12:39 |
| jacekowski | why? | 12:39 |
| X-Fade | Or put your phone in flight mode before boot :) | 12:39 |
| jacekowski | nobody is interested in your sim | 12:40 |
| kerio | good point | 12:40 |
| jacekowski | if somebody steals your phone they want a phone not a sim | 12:40 |
| kerio | i should lock the phone! | 12:40 |
| Surfa | jacekowski, not quite true | 12:40 |
| nid0 | jacekowski: not neccesarily | 12:40 |
| kerio | jacekowski: well, i had a samsung phone that asked for a lock code if a particular sim wasn't inserted | 12:40 |
| kerio | and the sim required the pin | 12:40 |
| kerio | so... | 12:40 |
| Surfa | it's very common that people use stolen phones for calling service numbers to make profit | 12:40 |
| nid0 | huge scam in london got busted recently where people were stealing contract sims to rack up international premium £10/minute calls | 12:41 |
| jacekowski | thing is that you don't have to pay for these | 12:41 |
| jacekowski | if you report that your phone was stolen | 12:41 |
| nid0 | id rather just have the sim locked and not have to worry about it in the first place tbh | 12:41 |
| Surfa | not quite true, the responsibility stops after you made the missing report | 12:41 |
| Surfa | in certain countries | 12:42 |
| jacekowski | not here | 12:42 |
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| jacekowski | you have to report it withing limited time | 12:42 |
| nid0 | technically thats the case in the uk too, the networks are generally lenient on calls made beforehand too but for the sake of entering a pin once in a blue moon the hassle's not worth it | 12:42 |
| Surfa | well, here or there doesn't make it true everywhere :) | 12:43 |
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| loufoque | what's the address of the "Fremantle SDK free armel" repo? | 12:45 |
| crashanddie | loufoque: look here for a list of repos: http://repository.maemo.org | 12:45 |
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| Jaffa | Yay, I can definitely attend day #2 of Nokia World | 12:47 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Nice ;) | 12:48 |
| jacekowski | i would go | 12:51 |
| jacekowski | but not for £700 | 12:51 |
| loufoque | what's the point? | 12:51 |
| jacekowski | it's little bit to expensive | 12:51 |
| Jaffa | Far too expensive IMHO | 12:51 |
| loufoque | according to this page, http://maemo.org/packages/view/gcc-4.2 | 12:51 |
| jacekowski | defcon costs $140 | 12:51 |
| loufoque | there is a gcc-4.2 package | 12:51 |
| Jaffa | But I've got an entrance ticket provided, and since I work in London, that's quite convenient. | 12:52 |
| loufoque | but even with the sdk repo, I don't see it | 12:52 |
| loufoque | I only see gcc-4.2-base | 12:52 |
| jacekowski | recon under $350 | 12:52 |
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| Gh0sty | 700 pound for a round of marketing? :/ | 12:55 |
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| Jaffa | Gh0sty: It was quite cool last year in Stuttgart when timsamoff and I went for the N900 launch | 12:57 |
| X-Fade | I wonder what there will be this time :) | 12:58 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: stuff is targetting | 13:00 |
| Jaffa | s/.*/I'm led to believe "not much"/ | 13:00 |
| X-Fade | hehe | 13:00 |
| * Jaffa was halfway through a sentence before realising he didn't know how much of what Ronan said was sensitive (albeit not confidential) | 13:01 | |
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| thomastp | Hi. When I use select_iter on a HildonTouchSelector in MULTI mode, it removes the previous selection | 13:05 |
| thomastp | how can I set the selection to two or more items at the same time ? | 13:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pay 700GBP per day to watch Nokia pose?? Maybe if _they_ pay _me_ I'd do that | 13:10 |
| jacekowski | it's £350 per day i think | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: you could be the guy storming the stage saying "OPEN BME OR I KILL A KITTEN" | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | that costs extra | 13:11 |
| pupnik_ | i can supply kittens | 13:11 |
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| jacekowski | i could try that | 13:13 |
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| jacekowski | just wondering how hard it would be to get into that building without paying | 13:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: find a good agent negotiating your wages for that special appearance | 13:16 |
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| jacekowski | i would have to find a cat | 13:17 |
| jacekowski | but that's not a problem | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | grab an arbitrary Nokia dude, and dress him up with a kitten costume | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | preferably one of the managers | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | much better performance than with a ral kitten | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | real* | 13:19 |
| jacekowski | nah, that would get me arrested for sure | 13:20 |
| TomaszD | man, the transistion from resistive to capacitive is painful :( | 13:20 |
| jacekowski | using real cat just may get me arrested | 13:20 |
| TomaszD | I can't hover my fingers close to the screen as they register as touch ;( god damn it | 13:21 |
| jacekowski | TomaszD: ? | 13:21 |
| jacekowski | TomaszD: i never had that problem | 13:21 |
| TomaszD | jacekowski, n900 -> desire | 13:21 |
| joga | your aura's not wide enough | 13:21 |
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| jacekowski | i was using iphone | 13:21 |
| jacekowski | and well, you had to touch the screen | 13:21 |
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| jacekowski | 0.1mm above screen and it wouldn't work | 13:22 |
| joga | when I've tried the iphone it has seemed to have needed a pretty strong push to register | 13:22 |
| TomaszD | it does register 0.1mm | 13:22 |
| TomaszD | it's just too sensitivie for my liking, but I guess I'll get used to it | 13:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, c-ts. You asked for it, now live with it | 13:25 |
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| splot | MohammadAG51: you there? | 13:37 |
| pupnik_ | The US Government and the patent cartel killed Commodore Amiga! Inside scoop here! http://xcssa.org/pipermail/xcssa/2005-February/002587.html | 13:38 |
| pupnik_ | the XOR patent!!! | 13:38 |
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| kerio | "start bme or the bunny gets it" | 13:40 |
| splot | crashanddie: mind if I pm? | 13:40 |
| crashanddie | kerio: i didn't know you into zoophilia | 13:40 |
| crashanddie | splot: go ahead | 13:41 |
| crashanddie | you were* | 13:41 |
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| Venemo | hey guys | 13:44 |
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| Venemo | I'm actually very surprised to see that there is a Maemo development course in my university | 13:45 |
| PolarFox | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeHHyXXS9A&feature=player_embedded now this is marketing... wtg Nokia.. :) | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | PolarFox: are we supposed to look at the boobs or the phone? | 13:45 |
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| PolarFox | Stskeeps: it says Nokia on both of them... soo... | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | it did? | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:46 |
| PolarFox | :D | 13:47 |
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| pupnik_ | Venemo: someone should ring your university and tell them about meego then | 13:48 |
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| Venemo | pupnik_: since MeeGo is not yet complete, that would be pointless | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | qt's | 13:51 |
| Venemo | pupnik_: the title of the course is "Mobile Linux development", so I guess they will switch to MeeGo once it is out | 13:51 |
| pupnik_ | heh ok cool | 13:52 |
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| pupnik_ | one thing about gardening is humility before the weather | 13:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | S60 | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Or openmoko based | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 13:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | I know some unis did buy them | 13:54 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil: the description clearly mentions Maemo and GTK | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 13:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | Venemo: Just submit something gtk based and shiny to extras now, and you then can just party. | 13:57 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil: haha :) | 13:57 |
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| Venemo | SpeedEvil: I'm not that familiar with Gtk, yet :) | 13:58 |
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| Venemo | SpeedEvil: although I like the idea | 14:29 |
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| Pillum | hey guys | 14:36 |
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| Pillum | I deinstalled Crochik's MyContacs | 14:36 |
| Pillum | but now my ringtone handling is corrupted | 14:36 |
| Pillum | sometimes a ringtone is played and sometimes not | 14:37 |
| Pillum | and if one is played it is mostly the nokia tune | 14:37 |
| Pillum | and not my own selected | 14:37 |
| Pillum | I already searched on the maemo.org mycontacts thread | 14:38 |
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| Pillum | but there is nothing like this mentioned | 14:38 |
| Pillum | what do i do? | 14:38 |
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| Pillum | hm | 14:40 |
| Pillum | i got it maybe | 14:41 |
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| Pillum | quit | 14:41 |
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| Venemo | Pillum: ... | 14:46 |
| Venemo | ah. | 14:46 |
| Venemo | patience is a virtue | 14:46 |
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| bince | does any od u guys develops apps for nokia N900 | 15:23 |
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| bince | does any of u guys develops apps for nokia N900 | 15:23 |
| crashanddie | lol... | 15:24 |
| crashanddie | IT guy just came running into the office | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | TRhere are a few app-developers here, yes. | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I am developing a shell-script based one. | 15:24 |
| crashanddie | "anyone who has a UPS, please disconnect it immediately and bring it to the storage room, there's a fire risk" | 15:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | o_O | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: hehe | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Odd. | 15:25 |
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| crashanddie | First question "Fire risk, or explosion risk?" Answer: "Just bring it to the storage room" | 15:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | LOL | 15:25 |
| xnt14 | crashanddie: :P | 15:25 |
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| Shadikka | :D | 15:26 |
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| ShadowJK | And why is a UPS a fire/explosion risk? | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: batteries | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: overcharge of Lead-Acid batteries can cause explosions. | 15:28 |
| ShadowJK | sure.. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | If the UPS was bought as a lot, and they have a recall | 15:28 |
| ShadowJK | I was thinking more along the lines of gas leak ignited by spark from the relay | 15:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway sounds really ridiculous | 15:30 |
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| ShadowJK | The recall sounds more likely | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah. | 15:31 |
| ShadowJK | a faulty float charger and there's a clear risk of fire or explosion | 15:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | UPS maker says 'recall, fire risk - you don't really have a choice in what to do as a company. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Generally willfully setting fire to employees isn't covered by insurance. | 15:32 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: exactly | 15:33 |
| crashanddie | quite frankly, I've stopped trying to fight the machine that feeds me | 15:33 |
| crashanddie | if some guy in IT asks something, just do it -- it's a lot easier to work when the people who actually control the systems like you | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | shouldn't you fetch the bomb squad then, rather than advising everybody to carry the explosive dangerous thing around ? :-P | 15:34 |
| crashanddie | the guy was trained to replace power cables and ethernet switches, not account for explosives | 15:34 |
| crashanddie | it's a good thing he's actually acting, rather than liking his fingers while the phone rings | 15:35 |
| nid0 | coffee > phone ringing | 15:35 |
| crashanddie | s/liki/licki/ | 15:35 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: it's a good thing he's actually acting, rather than licking his fingers while the phone rings | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | also seems a quite brilliant idea to heap up all those dangerous devices in one closed room X-P | 15:37 |
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| nid0 | "dangerous devices" probably = one smoked a little bit somewhere, once, while plugged in | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 15:38 |
| jhb | Hi *, is there a way to a) enable fulltext/content search on files b) indexing of sms/texts, email, contacts on my new shiny n900? (I played around a bit with tracker.cfg, but no sucess) | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | there's a python app that allows fulltext search on sms/texts (all conversations) | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | but I didn't release it yet, I'm not liking what I did with the UI | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | even then I'd answer GTFO when some IT dude asks me to carry that thing around, while not explaining exactly what might happen during I'm doing that. I'd leave the room and shout at him "do it yourself, dude!" | 15:40 |
| crashanddie | the search algorithms work fine though | 15:40 |
| lcuk | theres another one too that was released afaik | 15:40 |
| jhb | crashanddie: could I get a copy - I know python, would maybe teach me a lot? | 15:40 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, i sent you a link about it | 15:40 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: yeah, can't remember it though | 15:40 |
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| crashanddie | jhb: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58287 | 15:41 |
| crashanddie | jhb: here's another project that does the same | 15:41 |
| lcuk | http://blogs.gnome.org/xclaesse/category/maemo/ | 15:41 |
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| jhb | any hope of integrating everything into tracker / device wide search? | 15:42 |
| lcuk | zdra and barisione really know their contacts stuff! | 15:42 |
| jhb | crashanddie, lcuk thanks a lot! | 15:42 |
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| barisione | jhb: not the contacts | 15:45 |
| barisione | even if you did then there would not be a UI to access all the search results | 15:45 |
| jhb | crashanddie: scout seems to work great | 15:45 |
| lcuk | barisione, I believe thats the sort of thing crashanddie was wanting to look at | 15:45 |
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| lcuk | i think we should get a test build out of him | 15:46 |
| jhb | barisione: can't the address book the told to open with a specific contact? | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | jhb: yeah, I'm currently working on using the conversations UI to display the texts and stuff | 15:46 |
| Khertan | eE:600:KhweeteurPref.request_twitter_access_or_clear: No name 'parse_qsl' in module 'urlparse' as it s in a try/except pylint should not consider this as an error | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | well, have been working for what, a couple of months | 15:46 |
| jhb | barisione: or where is the problem (just trying to get my head around it) | 15:46 |
| Khertan | oups ... sorry wrong windows | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | it's just somewhere on a hard drive, and I haven't had time nor motivation | 15:46 |
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| lcuk | albanc and Khertan you are french, can you both try to convince crashanddie that he should release it! | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | lmao | 15:47 |
| jhb | crashanddie: I would _love_ to have a look at it, pretty please, cherry on top? :-) | 15:47 |
| barisione | jhb: yeah, it canm but you still need the ui bit build by somebody. that was my only point :) | 15:47 |
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| crashanddie | jhb: don't have it here at work, and I really didn't do much more than trying to figure out the lack of documentation around the API for the UI | 15:48 |
| jhb | barisione, would be interesting for me to learn how things work | 15:48 |
| crashanddie | jhb: so at the moment, I managed to make a window popup, and then it randomly segfaults or displays empty | 15:48 |
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| Khertan | nope sorry ... didn't have time to convince crashanddie did you know that french are stubborn | 15:49 |
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| Khertan | :) | 15:49 |
| jhb | crashanddie: I have done a bit of python on the e71/pys60, and am now trying to switch to something more powerfull - and I try to find my way around the APIs - so basically going the same path... | 15:49 |
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| Khertan | crashanddie, but if you want help send it to me ... i ll take a look tomorrow at the ui | 15:50 |
| lcuk | Khertan, I know this, its why I asked other French people! | 15:50 |
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| Khertan | lcuk, yep but i decide to not do it ... so now more luck lcuk :) | 15:50 |
| lcuk | bah | 15:51 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 16:07 |
| TiagoTiago | just a quick question, what is the path to where picture taken with the default camera prog are stored? | 16:08 |
| lcuk | /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | or /media/card/DCIM | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 16:08 |
| TiagoTiago | oh, i see, thanx | 16:09 |
| lcuk | or if you have a memory card, I think its something like /media/mmc1/DCIM | 16:09 |
| lcuk | yes DocScrutinizer :P | 16:09 |
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| TiagoTiago | why isn't it named "camera" like hw it shows in the camera prog? | 16:10 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, that is translated title | 16:10 |
| lcuk | DCIM is more "normal" for digital cameras | 16:10 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 16:10 |
| lcuk | so plugging it into USB allows it to interact better with desktop apps | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, and translating it is done to keep users puzzled, confused, and stupid | 16:11 |
| lcuk | users are not stupid. | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia seems to differ on that | 16:12 |
| lcuk | users have a skillset that is not geared around ASCII | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they think users are | 16:12 |
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| TiagoTiago | i've only seen cameras that show up as a knockoff Windows Explorer thing, kinda like a disk drive under my co | 16:13 |
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| TiagoTiago | gah | 16:13 |
| TiagoTiago | backspace is too close to enter | 16:14 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, heh i do that with laptop also | 16:15 |
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| TiagoTiago | under My Computer, except that if you open it it doesn't have a drive letter and it doesn't look nor behave quite like a regular folder/drive , somtimes hthe folder icons are different, you can't drag stuff proprerlly, somtimes it's weird like miniatures mode without space for filename etc | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, the real distance between CT and BS isn't so much different on laptop than what it is on N900. ~0 in both cases | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | CR | 16:16 |
| kwtm | Hi. Can someone give me pointers on how to tinker with my N900 "desktop"environment (is it called "dashboard")? E.g. in what directory do I find the icons (like email, contacts, etc.) that show up on my desktop? I'm trying to Google but am not getting the right keywoards. | 16:17 |
| TiagoTiago | you mean the app menu? | 16:17 |
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| lcuk | kwtm, if you want to change the theme, investigate and install a few pre made themes, they often come with icons | 16:17 |
| TiagoTiago | I think the dashboard is when you see the miniatures of the programs running | 16:17 |
| lcuk | then use one of those to modify | 16:17 |
| lcuk | dashboard is the running app list | 16:18 |
| TiagoTiago | there are the home screens, the app menu, and the dashboard, or am i wrong? | 16:18 |
| lcuk | nope | 16:18 |
| TiagoTiago | kinda like with windows you got the desktop, the Start menu and the taskbar, respetivelly | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's appstarter and there's taskswitcher? | 16:19 |
| TiagoTiago | btw, is there an alt-tab in Maemo? | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 16:20 |
| lcuk | default system, ctrl-backspace will take you to the dashboard | 16:20 |
| kwtm | lcuk: Thanks for the suggestion. I'm looking more for: "I modified an app (e.g. FreeCell4Python) and now I want to change the icon which runs the original app to run my new modified app in my own directory." Presumably the "icon/shortcut" is actually a text file in ~/.hildon-desktop/ or something, which I can edit on my own? | 16:20 |
| TiagoTiago | like, to switch btween progs without having to first go to the dashboard and then selecting the prog you want | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html | 16:21 |
| kwtm | Okay, so the desktop is called ... desktop? Palmtop? Screentop? | 16:21 |
| pupnik_ | i would like cell phones that can call each other directly | 16:21 |
| lcuk | kwtm, right - all applications have a .desktop file which indicates which icon to use | 16:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: sip over ad-hoc wifi | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: ^^^ there's *real* alt-tab function | 16:22 |
| TiagoTiago | there is probably some way over bluetooth too | 16:22 |
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| pupnik_ | nice one DocScrutinizer | 16:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | if i map alt and tab to the physical keyboard and press them it works? | 16:22 |
| MNZ | kwtm, /usr/share/applications/hildon/ look for the application's .desktop file there, and change the Exec= line | 16:23 |
| kwtm | MNZ: Ah, there's the info I'm looking for. Will check that directory. | 16:23 |
| TiagoTiago | I remember reading about this prog for Symbian called btWalkieTalkie or somthing | 16:23 |
| pupnik_ | ahh well the cellphone recievers are probably not good enough to pick up other cellphone xmits over distance | 16:23 |
| pupnik_ | i was hoping to be able to call home from the supermarket directly TiagoTiago | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: trhey are absolutely fine. | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: The problem with that is the cellphone is a third of an invention. | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: (cellphones call each other) that's completely unfeasible | 16:24 |
| lcuk | kwtm, if you are changing a specific package, you should be looking for the .desktop file within that package | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: The other two thirds are the towers, and the scheduling and network design. | 16:24 |
| lcuk | source | 16:24 |
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| TiagoTiago | it would be interesting if cell phones formed a secure annonymizing mesh network, only resorting to the cell towers when there are no smaller devices in range that can raeach the destination | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: So that you do not interfere with other phones or the tower when a distant phone is due to transmit. | 16:25 |
| pupnik_ | right SpeedEvil ok nm | 16:25 |
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| kwtm | lcuk: I'm actually looking at creating new programs (e.g. a new icon to launch my shell/python script) but was going to play with modifying a package to start out. | 16:25 |
| kwtm | MNZ: I see all the .desktop files. In what system file do I find/modify how they appear on my desktop? E.g. now I want to make a new ".desktop" icon appear on my desktop. or delete it. | 16:26 |
| TiagoTiago | do you know of a program that based on the current GPS coordinates will search a database of nearby open wifi hotspots as well as cracked passwords for non-open hotspots? | 16:27 |
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| TiagoTiago | for nearby* | 16:27 |
| lcuk | kwtm, ".desktop" files link together the display name, the icon and the command to run it | 16:27 |
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| MNZ | kwtm, AIUI you create a .desktop file in there then go to the desktop and 'Add Shortcut' | 16:28 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, no password cracking on default system, gtfo out and stop asking here | 16:28 |
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| pupnik_ | " I find this book to be one of the best available monograph introductions to the field of quantum cryptography" http://books.google.com/books?id=7e5-TVAm5jIC&lpg=PA66&ots=ZX7x_qsIbp&dq=broadband%20data%20transmission%20atomic%20clock&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=broadband%20data%20transmission%20atomic%20clock&f=false | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: you don't want to care about that. just create a new xyz.desktop and have the correct exec= and icon= lines in it, and place it to the folder MNZ told | 16:29 |
| TiagoTiago | lol, alright | 16:29 |
| kwtm | MNZ, DocScrutinizer: I see ... so that folder contains all possible *.desktop files, and we let Hildon manage whether it shows up on the desktop or not. Then next question is: where do I find the icon files (presumably *.png files) themselves? The *.desktop files give no pathname, sp presumably there is a default directory. How do I draw my own icon and have it show up on the desktop? | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I *think* they are somewhere in /usr/share/icons | 16:32 |
| nid0 | icons are in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/hildon | 16:32 |
| nid0 | assuming you want a 64x6x square icon | 16:33 |
| lcuk | kwtm, widgets live in a different part but normal stance for app shortcuts (which is what you want) is to let the user decide whether to place them on his desktop | 16:33 |
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| lcuk | (or her!) | 16:33 |
| TiagoTiago | lol, if you open a hidden image with the builtin image viewr it complains about the format but shows the image anyway | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf is a hidden image? | 16:34 |
| TiagoTiago | the file storing the imageis hidden | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err like in .IAmHidden ? | 16:35 |
| TiagoTiago | yeah | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why should this be any difference when opening it? | 16:35 |
| X-Fade | Hehe, now that must be the longest version number I've ever seen in Maemo: pinentry 0.9.0+20100830.cd29b6eb8b6db1ef3980128efda91432061c1264-0maemo1 | 16:35 |
| TiagoTiago | dunno | 16:35 |
| kwtm | lcuk: Noted. Will let user decide whether to place them on his/her desktop. | 16:36 |
| TiagoTiago | hidden images don't show in the gallery, unless you open them directly, and then it's only untill you close the gallery prog | 16:36 |
| lcuk | TiagoTiago, to be fair, its not a normal case to handle | 16:37 |
| nid0 | whats the problem with that? hidden files are only there for convenience to not show stuff you dont regularly need to see | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mhm, this indicates tracker is obeying the semantics of leading dot in filenames. The files themselves though are completely normal | 16:37 |
| lcuk | hell, if you try to name a Windows file ".something.png" it will shout at you and tell you "You must type a file name" | 16:37 |
| kwtm | lcuk: I've copied a ".desktop" file to a new version, modified it, and will try adding it to my desktop (via the GUI). In what directory should I put an icon of my own creation so it will become the icon of my new modified app, and show up when I put it on my desktop? | 16:37 |
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| nid0 | kwtm: as above, /usr/share/icos/hicolor/XXxXX/hildon, where XXxXX is the size you want | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: read scrollback, that question had been answered | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I even still have it on my screen here | 16:40 |
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| kwtm | nid0, DocScrutinizer: You are right; I had missed those lines (thought it was part of what TiagoTiago was asking). Thanks for clarifying. | 16:40 |
| kwtm | My hotel wifi connection is such that text comes out in bursts (e.g. every minute,m a burst of text shows up) | 16:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eew, know that | 16:41 |
| kwtm | nid0: And the icons on the desktop are by default the 64x64 version, I take it? | 16:42 |
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| nid0 | 64x64 is the standard size for links/contacts yea | 16:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | am i not suposed to be able to create a symlink to a folder in the same pareent folder? | 16:45 |
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| nid0 | you should be able to fine | 16:46 |
| TiagoTiago | does it matter the the symlink has the same name except the target is hidden (has period in the beginning) ? | 16:47 |
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| kwtm | TiagoTiago: Remember to make sure you're not in/under the MyDocs directory or somewhere else where it's VFAT. | 16:47 |
| TiagoTiago | yep that is the issue :( | 16:47 |
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| kwtm | Making the MyDocs VFAT may make the N900 more compatible with Windows systems, but it sucks not to be able to take advantage of the Linux filesystem features like permissions and symlinks. | 16:49 |
| kwtm | I can't even properly symlink to "~/MyDocs/.documents" from my home directory because of shell problems, and that directory name is a bummer to type out in full each time. | 16:49 |
| pupnik_ | yeah what u gonna do | 16:50 |
| TiagoTiago | I wonder if it would be too slow to have the N900 emulate a VFAT drive while connected via USB while keeping the actual file system using a better format | 16:50 |
| pupnik_ | why not store linux/ext2 metadata in a file on the vfat partition | 16:50 |
| kwtm | I tried doing "ln -s /home/user/MyDocs/.documents /home/user/docs", but when I do "cd docs" from home directory, the prompt shows "~/MyDocs/.documents" (even though I'm "really" in ~/docs). | 16:50 |
| pupnik_ | it might get out of sync of course | 16:50 |
| pupnik_ | but you'd try to update it intelligently | 16:50 |
| kwtm | If I then do "cd ..", I jump from "~/MyDocs/.documents" to "~" (even though I only asked to go up one directory level) because I'm actually in "~/docs", not "~/MyDocs/.documents". | 16:51 |
| kwtm | I think the solution to all my problems (including that nasty one where the N900 becomes useless until reflashed) is to use Bash instead. I hope there's a package for Bash for N900. | 16:52 |
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| TiagoTiago | i think i saw somthing like "bash3 for Maemo" or somthing in the repos, never got the guts to install it | 16:53 |
| lcuk | kwtm, if its just for you, you could resize the partitions and connect using ssh to your linux system.. | 16:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: there is a proper bash package | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: apt-get install bash | 16:55 |
| kwtm | lcuk: ? Not sure what you mean. I think you mean: don't use the MyDocs filesystem and just use the one mounted on root. Agree, but will try to leave that option for later resort and, for now, try to use the system as is. It's not that big of a problem. | 16:55 |
| TiagoTiago | is there anything i should know before installing that? | 16:55 |
| kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Thanks for the info! | 16:56 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, doesnt bash conflict and stuff, or is that only if you change the default, or has that been fixed now? | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui it's only when you change user default shell | 16:57 |
| TiagoTiago | ? | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: nevertheless you probably also want apt-get install coreutils-gnu less findutils... | 16:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then add /usr/bin/gnu to your path | 16:58 |
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| kwtm | DocScrutinizer: Ahh, I didn't know less was in a different package. I already installed coreutils-gnu. | 16:58 |
| kwtm | DocScrutinizer: I have /usr/bin/gnu in my path, but only at the end. There was some conflict with how one of them behaved compared to the default package. | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: a special candy: apt-get install mandb-n900 | 16:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what conflict? | 17:00 |
| jacekowski | 15:59 < ball> Someone should build a lifesize "Farmville Experience"...they could even put live animals, crops etc. on it! | 17:00 |
| TiagoTiago | " Couldn't find package mandb-n900" :/ | 17:00 |
| jacekowski | 15:59 < ball> ...oh hang on, that's a farm. | 17:00 |
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| TiagoTiago | lol | 17:01 |
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| jcrawford | does the N900 have WRT on it? | 17:07 |
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| jacekowski | WRT? | 17:09 |
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| jcrawford | web runtime | 17:09 |
| jcrawford | js/css apps | 17:09 |
| jcrawford | rather than coding an app in say C | 17:10 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: that joke must be as old as real tv | 17:10 |
| Flyser | jcrawford: I don't think so | 17:10 |
| Flyser | jcrawford: is that what webOS is using? | 17:11 |
| jacekowski | no | 17:11 |
| jacekowski | webos has normal apps | 17:11 |
| jacekowski | jcrawford: n900 browser has js and css and flash | 17:12 |
| Flyser | jacekowski: WebOS apps are written in javascript and html. at least most of them | 17:12 |
| TiagoTiago | js but no java | 17:12 |
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| Flyser | TiagoTiago: who cares about java? is anyone still using that for web development? | 17:12 |
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| * fdsfsd http://pro.revenge.lv PRO.REVENGE.LV:27015 cs 1.6 JOIN JOIN!!! | 17:13 | |
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| TiagoTiago | there are some stuff i use on mhy Windows machine i can't with the N900, i mean some sites got stuff that doesn't work without java | 17:14 |
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| Flyser | I've disabled java on my desktop machine since years and never came across a site that didn't work because of that | 17:15 |
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| joga | Flyser: some banks use java on their sites | 17:16 |
| tank-man | i came across a pdf form I had to have java before I could access that pdf. was a form for the canadian gov. | 17:16 |
| Flyser | I don't trust online banking | 17:17 |
| TiagoTiago | this: http://dan-ball.jp/en/javagame/dust/ | 17:17 |
| joga | (for example, a major bank in finland (owned by the danish) does | 17:17 |
| nid0 | sadly I need java for work sometimes, our vps platform's integrated management console uses it | 17:17 |
| nid0 | on that note, so do a lot of kvm-ip systems | 17:18 |
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| jacekowski | joga: i'm happy user of a bank that works even on links | 17:22 |
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| jacekowski | joga: or any other text browser with basic plain html support | 17:22 |
| joga | jacekowski, well, they do have their backup connection that probably does too :) | 17:22 |
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| joga | the java thing is a bit scary...it uses the native interface and for example creates some directory in your $HOME | 17:24 |
| joga | I switched banks when they rolled out their new online banking solution :) | 17:24 |
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| jacekowski | well, my bank did the same not so long ago | 17:24 |
| jacekowski | still html and css and stuff | 17:24 |
| jacekowski | but they added some ajax stuff | 17:25 |
| jacekowski | but it's still working fine on links | 17:25 |
| joga | that's nice | 17:25 |
| joga | (I prefer elinks though) | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwtm: you might want to look at http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 17:26 |
| kW | Hello! Does anybody know how to tell the N900 to export the _internal flash_ partition as USB mass storage device to the USB host even if an external flash partition (microSDHC) is available? | 17:27 |
| jacekowski | it exports both | 17:28 |
| nid0 | unless im misunderstanding you, by just selecting mass storage mode. | 17:28 |
| nid0 | it makes both available | 17:28 |
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| kW | well, you are actually right... it just did not work at the first attempt... | 17:30 |
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| TiagoTiago | anyway, thx for all, cya | 17:37 |
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| PBeck | hi | 17:48 |
| MNZ | PBeck, hello and welcome to the #maemo helpdesk! Please state your question/problem and stand by for a response. | 17:49 |
| PBeck | uh a new bot? :> | 17:49 |
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| MohammadAG | PBeck, human based | 17:49 |
| MNZ | thank you, please stand by. | 17:49 |
| PBeck | how can i find out which dependancy my python application has? | 17:50 |
| jcrawford | Flyser, yes that is what WebOS uses and many other Nokia devices | 17:50 |
| kerio | PBeck: run it :< | 17:50 |
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| PBeck | MohammadAG: nice thank you :) | 17:50 |
| kerio | MNZ: is there a god? | 17:50 |
| kerio | MNZ: is there a meaning of life? | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | kerio, fu, the bot was working properly | 17:50 |
| kerio | MNZ: does P=NP? | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo PBeck MohammadAG | 17:51 |
| kerio | (the last one tests the internet capabilities of the bot) | 17:51 |
| MNZ | kerio, my infinite processing powers have come to a conclusion. | 17:51 |
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| MNZ | 42 | 17:51 |
| PBeck | hi DocScrutinizer | 17:51 |
| kerio | fail | 17:51 |
| kerio | :| | 17:51 |
| kerio | that's not the meaning of life | 17:51 |
| Flyser | jcrawford: I don't think the maemo supports it, but I might be wrong | 17:51 |
| MNZ | kerio, I assure you, you are mistaken. | 17:51 |
| PBeck | kerio: thats not the best solution i have hoped i can see it anywhere => http://nopaste.info/e42d71a07d.html | 17:51 |
| kerio | that's the answer to the question about life, the universe and everything | 17:51 |
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| kerio | PBeck: you need pyqy | 17:52 |
| kerio | er | 17:52 |
| kerio | pyqt | 17:52 |
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| kerio | MNZ: what's the question? | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | can anyone help with the conversion of 5 lines of Python to native C? | 17:52 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: why would you do that :'( | 17:52 |
| MNZ | kerio, it seems that you are very confused. I will help you. I have just sent 2 terminators back in time to 'help' you. Please stand by. | 17:52 |
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| MohammadAG | Cause pulling in python for a damn small script is retarded | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | script where? | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | plus C requires less memory :P | 17:53 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, just paste it :P | 17:53 |
| * lcuk dares you | 17:53 | |
| PBeck | from this paste => i think i need the following => python2.5, python2.5-qt4-common, python2.5-qt4-core, python2.5-qt4.gui | 17:53 |
| * MohammadAG will not disappoint his followers | 17:53 | |
| MohammadAG | import dbus | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | bus = dbus.SessionBus() | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | proxy = bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Notifications', '/org/freedesktop/Notifications') | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | interface = dbus.Interface(proxy,dbus_interface='org.freedesktop.Notifications') | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | interface.Notify('Notification', 0, 'app_install_error', 'Main title', 'Small description', [], {}, 10000) | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, go back to coding :P | 17:53 |
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| lcuk | i am talking actually | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | stop talking and start coding! :P | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | That's not 5 lines of python | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | that's several hundred | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | you can't count import as one line | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | inport translates to include :P | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | import* | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - yes. | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | But still. | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok. | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | #include "dbus.h" | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | void main(){go()}; | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | 2 lines. | 17:55 |
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| MNZ | heh, even two lines and you make a syntax error :P | 17:56 |
| MNZ | void main(){go();} | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm tired. | 17:56 |
| jhb | isn't pynotify available as well? | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | I have been refabricating my greenhouse doors. | 17:56 |
| MNZ | SpeedEvil, hasn't it been 3 days already with this whole thing you are doing to your house? | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | umm - what? | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | It's been 2 years. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | On and off. | 17:57 |
| MNZ | Well I was talking about the fish tank leakage specifically, but looks like that's unrelated | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - I have limited energy - and there is way too much shit in here. | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | So moving it around is not one days job | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: seems you muted MohammadAG with your adaption of shortest C program contest winner of all times | 17:59 |
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| MohammadAG | MNZ, you're not new here? | 18:00 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, router died :P | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | Static IPs FTW | 18:00 |
| MNZ | MohammadAG, been about a week or so here | 18:00 |
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| MNZ | On other unrelated but more on-topic news: I give up. | 18:01 |
| MNZ | (re: audio codec) | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | NAAAAH | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | why??? | 18:01 |
| lizardo | MohammadAG: maybe some has mentioned this... have you tried calling dbus-send ? | 18:01 |
| MohammadAG | not a dbus expert, any ideas how? | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-send --help would be a good start | 18:02 |
| MNZ | There's a de-emphasis filter separate from the effects filter, it's much simpler and with the default coefficients acts as a low-pass filter. This can be "easily" programmed to work as a high pass filter for speaker protection, thus not needing PA equalizer | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: yup, I know | 18:03 |
| MNZ | Only thing is, even this 'simple' filter, I cannot grok. Never mind the full blown IIR effects filter. | 18:03 |
| Khertan | MohammadAG, what are you trying to do ? | 18:03 |
| MohammadAG | show that dialog without pulling in python | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's advanced master level of math | 18:04 |
| MNZ | so unless someone can give me the magic numbers for using the deemphasis filter as a high pass, then that's that.... | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: bring it to the point where you write random nonsense to the relevant registers, and then test it does *anything* ? | 18:05 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, I already tried the filter, with the default coeffs | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | so we could very easily pick up whenever we find a math wizard | 18:05 |
| MNZ | It does what they say it does, low pass filter. | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: so start a project, document what you got so far, and ask for help from others savvy in IIR math voodoo | 18:06 |
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| MNZ | right now it's just a switch to turn on/off, for testing. I was going to then make it turn on automatically for speaker output and turn off for headphones. | 18:06 |
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| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, tmo is good place for this? | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: you should go public with that | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | garage is a good place for this | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | register an account on garage.maemo.org (if not yet done), then go thru the "paperwork" to register a project | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's less painful than it might sound | 18:09 |
| MNZ | btw, there's mafw-gst-eq-renderer, so once the math part is done I think I would just need to contact the writer of that to hook it up to the new alsa controls | 18:09 |
| MNZ | (talking about the EQ) | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, nice :-D | 18:10 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, yeah I'm registered already, will start a project I guess | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | MNZ: And the author of mafw-gst-eq-renderer will probably be quite interested, as he is quite active. | 18:10 |
| pog | can somebody quickly explain what is r&D mode? Is there a starttutorial, so I can quickly gain an overview, over the possibilty of the N900. Particularly to use as a Linuxmachine. | 18:10 |
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| MNZ | X-Fade, I hope that's for real and you didn't actually forget the sarcasm tag :D | 18:11 |
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| X-Fade | pog: you don't need it. | 18:11 |
| X-Fade | MNZ: No, not kidding this time. | 18:11 |
| MNZ | sweet | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | prozzerg: N900 *is* a linux machine | 18:11 |
| pog | I saw that gainroot allows root access, which seems enough to me. | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 18:11 |
| X-Fade | pog: install rootsh | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | pog: ^^^ | 18:12 |
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| pog | anyway, it would be nice, to now e bit more about the machine und it's theoretical possiblityes, but rootaccess ist o.k. for now. | 18:12 |
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| julian__ | can someone tell me how to delete all sd card partitions with n900 | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | julian__: on uSD? | 18:15 |
| xnt14 | Khertan: if I install khweeteur from source with a certain setup.py option will it remove the debug trace? | 18:16 |
| julian__ | uSD? | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | microSD card | 18:17 |
| julian__ | yes | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=1k count=1 | 18:17 |
| julian__ | let me give that a try | 18:18 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's deleting the partition table, but not the data on the card which still could be recovered | 18:18 |
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| lardman | afternoon all | 18:19 |
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| julian__ | ok. i just want to get rid of everything | 18:19 |
| Khertan | xnt14, nope | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | julian__: then open and close battery cover - to remount the device | 18:19 |
| xnt14 | Khertan: damn... | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, get definitely rid so nobody can recover? I.E. wipe? | 18:20 |
| xnt14 | Khertan: khweeteur is too slow, most likely because I have a massive timeline... perhaps optimize the timeline display? | 18:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | julian__: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=1M count=<size of card in megbyte> | 18:21 |
| SpeedEvil | For get rid so nobody can ever read - snap it in half | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | julian__: will wipe whole data on card completely. This is not necessary unless you have privacy issues with that data | 18:21 |
| tobis87 | Hi! What does pwr_key stand for in /proc/bootreason? | 18:22 |
| julian__ | i got 1+0 in and out | 18:22 |
| SpeedEvil | power key | 18:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I would guess | 18:22 |
| lardman | anyone tried installing the latest SDK on 64bit Ubuntu? | 18:22 |
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| tobis87 | ok, this is correct, i thought it could also give info about irq or dma problems... | 18:23 |
| tobis87 | i issued the command: modprobe omap-aes; modprobe dm-crypt; cryptsetup -c aes-cbc-essiv:rmd128 -s128 -d /dev/urandom create swap /dev/mmcblk0p3; mkswap /dev/mapper/swap; modprobe ramzswap memlimit_kb=32768 backing_swap=/dev/mapper/swap && sleep 1; swapon -a (with /dev/ramzswap0 in fstab) | 18:23 |
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| tobis87 | it worked, but the screen didn't want to wake up, after it went into powersaving | 18:24 |
| tobis87 | i will test it again without acceleration, but i'm now to scared to put that into rcS-late | 18:25 |
| MNZ | suggestions on a 'unixname' for the kernel audio codec driver patch? | 18:25 |
| Khertan | xnt14, what you mean by a massive timeline ? | 18:25 |
| Khertan | xnt14, did you try with 0.0.20 ? | 18:26 |
| xnt14 | Khertan: hmm | 18:26 |
| xnt14 | no | 18:26 |
| xnt14 | I'll update now | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: AIC34-EQ | 18:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 18:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: or s/AIC34/<whatever_the_name_of_codec>/ | 18:27 |
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| MNZ | yeah it's aic34. I was going with a descriptive full name of 'Audio Codec Kernel Driver Patch' though. Too much? | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not sure about that, I think a description comes later | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's pretty good help texts to each of the project var fields | 18:29 |
| Khertan | xnt14, :) | 18:29 |
| MNZ | Yes: You should start with specifying the name of your project. The "Full Name" is descriptive, and has no arbitrary restrictions (except a 40 character limit). | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | incl suggestions on min/max char | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | full name isn't unix name though? | 18:30 |
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| MNZ | no, different things. Full name is more descriptive and with no restrictions | 18:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 18:31 |
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| MNZ | meh, it doesn't matter, just going with AIC34 Hardware EQ | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, as engineer, shouldn't all CPUs have a damn temperature sensor? | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG | imma sue HP | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: for CPUs that *need* active cooling they for sure should have some way to tell system "please more fan" | 18:35 |
| pog | I guess, bevor installing rootsh, I try to install an ssh-deamon. | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | if the CPU is designed for passive cooling, and has autothrottle to avoid overheating, then a temp sensor isn't mandatory (though nice to have) | 18:36 |
| MohammadAG | I doubt a laptop has passive cooling | 18:37 |
| xnt14 | Khertan: it works better :) | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | since the fans are actually controlled | 18:37 |
| Khertan | xnt14, :) | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | usualy not :-D | 18:37 |
| Khertan | xnt14, i'm happy to heard that ! | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | but there's nothing in sysfs that shows temp | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | then that's a fault of kernel maybe | 18:37 |
| xnt14 | Khertan: :) | 18:37 |
| xnt14 | MohammadAG: hmm, usually, the bios controls the fans, unless the manufacturer was evil and left it to a proprietay windows software... | 18:38 |
| pog | i still have problems to scale the screen, altough there is a yourube-video how to do... | 18:38 |
| * DocScrutinizer slaps MohammadAG around with I2Ctools/sensors package | 18:38 | |
| xnt14 | MohammadAG: on HPs, the bios controls them | 18:38 |
| xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: lm-sensors? | 18:38 |
| MohammadAG | sec | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | restarting wifi | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | or not, nvm | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | xnt14: yeah lm-sensors | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | lm-sensors is already the newest version. | 18:40 |
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| xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: another question: on my XPS 600, if I up the fan speed a tiny bit, the CPU fans go upto crazy RPMs, it sounds like a damn jet engine. I'm using i8kutils. why does this happen? | 18:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | It doesn't help to keep the thing in your pocket, you have to *use* it :-P | 18:41 |
| xnt14 | The RPM keeps on increasing, It never stops, I was afraid it would burn, so it put it back to normal | 18:41 |
| xnt14 | lol | 18:41 |
| xnt14 | its a giant desktop | 18:41 |
| xnt14 | :P | 18:41 |
| MohammadAG | do what I did on a loud desktop once | 18:41 |
| julian__ | DocScrutinizer: Now the memory card is recognized but unsupported format | 18:41 |
| MohammadAG | accidentally pull the fan cable | 18:41 |
| tobis87 | MohammadAG: run sensors-detect, you might want to load some sensor modules on boot. | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | julian__: wasn't that what you wanted? | 18:42 |
| julian__ | yes | 18:42 |
| xnt14 | MohammadAG: um, if I do that on my XPS it starts beeping.. :P | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | julian__: now go to hildon file manager and select "format card" | 18:42 |
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| julian__ | ok | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG | Sorry, no sensors were detected. | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | This is relatively common on laptops, where thermal management is | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | handled by ACPI rather than the OS. | 18:43 |
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| tobis87 | MohammadAG: which cpu do you have? | 18:43 |
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| MohammadAG | 520M | 18:43 |
| xnt14 | tobis87: core i5 | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | that ^ | 18:43 |
| xnt14 | ah, :P | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | xnt14: no idea. There might be several reasons for such behaviour | 18:43 |
| xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: k | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | xnt14: without additional info / data I can't tell anything | 18:44 |
| tobis87 | For core duo and core quad, loading coretemp was required | 18:44 |
| tobis87 | the module coretemp | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | It doesn't help to keep the thing in your pocket, you have to *use* it :-P | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ^^^ :-P | 18:44 |
| tobis87 | might work as well on core i5 | 18:44 |
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| xnt14 | tobis87: how about a pentium d? | 18:45 |
| xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: any command that I can pastebin? | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG | FATAL: Error inserting coretemp (/lib/modules/2.6.32-24-generic/kernel/drivers/hwmon/coretemp.ko): No such device | 18:45 |
| xnt14 | s/command/commands | 18:46 |
| tobis87 | xnt14: mom, i | 18:46 |
| xnt14 | tobis87: ? | 18:46 |
| tobis87 | answer a call | 18:46 |
| Flyser | kernel is too old? | 18:46 |
| xnt14 | tobis87: ah, k | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | xnt14: just observe cpu temp ( hehe :-D ), if it goes down while fans spin up, it's a bios bug. If it rises then it's a mech airflow issue | 18:47 |
| xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: ok | 18:47 |
| xnt14 | hmm, lately, cpu temp stays at -22 C... | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | eer, are you at sibiria? | 18:47 |
| xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: iunno, the CPU exaust feels like an AC... | 18:48 |
| xnt14 | :P | 18:48 |
| xnt14 | apparently, thats the reading from i8k | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suspect you got yourself a monster with nitrogen cooling -you evil overclocker :-P | 18:49 |
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| xnt14 | DocScrutinizer: lol, no :P | 18:49 |
| xnt14 | its not even overclocked | 18:49 |
| xnt14 | 2.80Ghz stock | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | #ubuntu is such a retarded channel :P | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | well buntkuh means colored cow | 18:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so what do you expect on a chan where colored cows meet | 18:51 |
| pog | when I enter internet, there are 5 tabs visible. I'm wondring wether these tabs are "open tabs" or the last used. I'm wondring where I finde at "Beginners Tutorial" just for basic use. | 18:51 |
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| tobis87 | MohammadAG: Maybe this helps, http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archive/index.php/t-220570.html | 18:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pog: eh? talking about connections on N900? | 18:52 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I didn't know ubuntu was indian :P | 18:54 |
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| julian__ | DocScrutinizer | 18:57 |
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| julian__ | DocScrutinizer: the file manager isnt formatting the card. anything else I can try? | 18:57 |
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| tobis87 | xnt14: there is not much support for lga775 as it seems: http://www.lm-sensors.org/search?q=lga775&noquickjump=1&ticket=on&changeset=on&wiki=on | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | julian__: install cfdisk and use it, or try to find a manpage for sfdisk which is installed on the device, and use it. Or simply partition&format it on your desktop PC, whatever that may be | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 19:01 |
| julian__ | im going to try gparted | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds good, yep | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | create one large VFAT partiton, as that's probably what you want | 19:02 |
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| xnt14 | tobis87: ah... hmm | 19:03 |
| xnt14 | tobis87: I already have CPU temp from i8k but it doesn't look like its accurate | 19:03 |
| xnt14 | -22 C / -8 F | 19:04 |
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| tobis87 | xnt14: what is the driver called? you might want to search with the driver name here: http://marc.info/?l=lm-sensors&r=1&w=2 | 19:05 |
| tobis87 | for updates | 19:05 |
| xnt14 | tobis87: k | 19:06 |
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| hrw | xnt14: dell laptop? | 19:10 |
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| lardman | re | 19:11 |
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| xnt14 | hrw: dell desktop | 19:11 |
| * lardman is not fond of the Ubuntu installer | 19:11 | |
| hrw | lardman: use alternative one | 19:12 |
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| hrw | xnt14: sudo sensors-detect then | 19:12 |
| lardman | hi hrw | 19:13 |
| tobis87 | hrw: (18:03:57) xnt14: tobis87: I already have CPU temp from i8k but it doesn't look like its accurate (18:04:01) xnt14: -22 C / -8 F | 19:13 |
| hrw | lardman: I do not know how it looks in maverick but lucid had ubuntu one or alternative (which is good old debian one) | 19:14 |
| hrw | tobis87: I saw it | 19:14 |
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| hrw | tobis87: i8k is old driver which should vanish for most of machines | 19:14 |
| pog | DocScrutinizer: yeh, I will whatch a few other youtube videos, I have to get used to this logic. | 19:15 |
| tobis87 | hrw: i'm sure he only needs to compile the correct module, with some patch... it is called i8k? | 19:15 |
| lardman | hrw: It's more than I'm afraid of what it will do to my Win7 installation, it doesn't seem to detect new disks with no partition table which worries me | 19:15 |
| hrw | tobis87: i8k is for old dell laptops | 19:15 |
| hrw | lardman: ubuntu or debian installer? | 19:15 |
| lardman | ubuntu | 19:15 |
| hrw | report bug and use debian installer | 19:16 |
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| xnt14 | hrw: k | 19:16 |
| lardman | hrw: yeah | 19:16 |
| tobis87 | hell yes, hardware encryption reduces the load from kcryptd from 30% to 10%, if there would be the freezing, but well the driver is quite new from 20.08, speed is half of the normal speed with aes-128 | 19:17 |
| xnt14 | brb | 19:17 |
| hrw | xnt14: "sudo sensors-detect" will try driver by driver - if will not find any then you are out of luck | 19:17 |
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| tobis87 | xnt14: http://www.easylinux.de/Artikel/ausgabe/2003/12/068-shell-tipps/index.html under Schritt 5, it says if value 7 and 8 show negative values (-22) , the driver can't detect the speed of the fan... the forth value should be the temperature in celcius | 19:24 |
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| hrw | tobis87: and article is from 2003... | 19:25 |
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| tobis87 | yes, well the pentium d is not much newer, it is still the same driver... maybe the widget which reads the temperature, reads the wrong value | 19:27 |
| hrw | i8k was written for laptops. old ones | 19:27 |
| hrw | maybe | 19:27 |
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| hrw | anyway time for me | 19:27 |
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| Khertan | lol cpu Temp 42°C | 19:29 |
| Khertan | :) | 19:29 |
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| AcTiVaTe | hzm, just added my bt mouse and kbd but is there any option needed to be set for bt-kbd-remap ? | 19:31 |
| AcTiVaTe | it says pc105 for model when I run it and I think that's correct | 19:32 |
| wazd | hello everyone | 19:33 |
| AcTiVaTe | heya | 19:33 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 19:55 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Seen Karsten's mail? :( | 20:03 |
| MohammadAG | Sts? | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | no, i'm with c | 20:05 |
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| rmrfchik | wow.. what a warm accept of Vexed on t.m.o ;) | 20:19 |
| rmrfchik | didn't expect it ;) | 20:19 |
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| frals | bah gstreamer cli looks messy | 20:29 |
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| Elleo | frals: not especially, putting together a gstreamer pipeline at the command line is a lot like just setting up a bunch of unix applications piping to one another | 20:32 |
| tobis87 | frals: did you had time to look into hw accel? there are still a lot of bugs, 256-bit causes the module to oops and an encrypted swap causes the device to not come back from powersaving (black screen) | 20:33 |
| Elleo | $elementname parameters ! $element2 ! element3, etc. | 20:33 |
| tobis87 | while it does come back, if encryption is used without accel. | 20:34 |
| frals | tobis87: not had time at all im afraid | 20:35 |
| frals | Elleo: bah, looks messy :P | 20:35 |
| tobis87 | i already wrote the maintainer, but why is everything so slow... i might consider to resend the email on linux-crypto-vger, hell what do they do at nokia? i thought they want to ship the driver with their new producs! | 20:36 |
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| tobis87 | i mean the first time to linux-crypto-vger, wrote him in private before. | 20:37 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 20:38 |
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| MNZ | moo | 20:40 |
| crashanddie | Khertan: is khweeter available on one of your repos? | 20:40 |
| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, http://www.musicdsp.org/files/Audio-EQ-Cookbook.txt there is hope :D | 20:40 |
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| MNZ | There's also a lot of googling to ensue.... | 20:40 |
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| Khertan | crashanddie extras-devel | 20:42 |
| Khertan | crashanddie, my repository is more stable than extras-devel | 20:42 |
| crashanddie | Khertan: that's why I want your repository | 20:42 |
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| crashanddie | Khertan: apt-get is giving gpg errors for your repo | 20:47 |
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| crashanddie | and apt-get doesn't find khweeteur | 20:49 |
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| mece | khweeteur is in devel, isn't it? | 20:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, nope. | 20:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, why frown? | 20:58 |
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| ideinit | hello all | 21:04 |
| * ideinit I am having issue installing python-setuptools, the error message is " | 21:05 | |
| ideinit | The following packages have unmet dependencies: | 21:05 |
| ideinit | python-setuptools: Depends: python-pkg-resources (= 0.6c9-1maemo2) but it is not installable | 21:05 |
| ideinit | E: Broken packages" | 21:05 |
| ideinit | can anyone help? | 21:05 |
| tobis87 | ideinit: your command was apt-get install python-setuptools? | 21:06 |
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| ideinit | tobis87: yes it is, "apt-get install python-setuptools" | 21:07 |
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| ideinit | tobis87: and I have the extras-devel repository in my sources.list | 21:08 |
| tobis87 | you havn't done anything wrong, the package has missing dependency http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python-setuptools/0.6c9-1maemo2/ | 21:08 |
| tobis87 | i don't use it, so it might never had worked... | 21:09 |
| ideinit | Actually, I have one device that actually worked | 21:10 |
| tobis87 | but it shouldn't be in extras then | 21:10 |
| ideinit | perhaps we caught it before it went broken? | 21:10 |
| tobis87 | maybe, the missing package was broken, yes you could have got it while the dependency was still met | 21:11 |
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| ideinit | Grrrr... there must be somebody out there that uses python?! | 21:11 |
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| tobis87 | sorry, i don't... i still hope to learn perl eventually when i need it. i go my way with c. | 21:13 |
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| Arkenoi | my address book is all fucked up, i think it is google to blame | 21:22 |
| Arkenoi | all merged contacts "exploded", several are missing as well as half of avatars | 21:22 |
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| mintux | im linux | 22:00 |
| mintux | im in linux and I want to update my phon | 22:01 |
| Venemo | mintux: okay, update it | 22:01 |
| mintux | I can not install any software now and get conflict errors | 22:01 |
| mintux | Venemo: but I don't know . I should update my phone from pc | 22:01 |
| Venemo | mintux: what software version are you using ang what is your issue? | 22:01 |
| mintux | or I can updated form phon | 22:01 |
| mintux | I got error for maemo5 and qt lib | 22:02 |
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| mintux | for install each software | 22:02 |
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| mintux | my version of maemo is 3.1010.02-8.003 | 22:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~flashing | 22:03 |
| infobot | well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 22:03 |
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| Venemo | mhm | 22:03 |
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| mintux | is it safe ? | 22:03 |
| mintux | I changed something in my phone | 22:03 |
| mintux | like the path | 22:04 |
| Venemo | mintux: what? | 22:04 |
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| mintux | path of theme | 22:04 |
| mintux | and fonts | 22:04 |
| mintux | and put in /home/opt | 22:04 |
| Venemo | mintux: okay. | 22:04 |
| tobis87 | sure it's save, but backup your important data first | 22:04 |
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| Venemo | mintux: create a backup of your data. (contacts, ims, etc. with the Backup application) and back it up to your computer | 22:04 |
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| Venemo | mintux: then reflash your eMMC and rootfs | 22:05 |
| mintux | Venemo: I should have windows ? | 22:05 |
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| Venemo | mintux: no, it works on windows | 22:05 |
| Venemo | mintux: see | 22:05 |
| tobis87 | and linux | 22:05 |
| Venemo | ~flashing | 22:05 |
| infobot | it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 22:05 |
| Venemo | mintux: it works on linux, windows, and mac | 22:05 |
| mintux | hmm | 22:05 |
| Venemo | mintux: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Linux | 22:06 |
| tobis87 | (21:01:06) mintux: im in linux and I want to update my phon <- which distro do you use? | 22:06 |
| mintux | tobis87: my pc is ubuntu 10.4 and my phone is n900 | 22:07 |
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| Venemo | mintux: should work fine | 22:07 |
| tobis87 | ok, i justed asked, in case your distro wouldn't use deb | 22:07 |
| Venemo | mintux: follow the instructions on the page I linked | 22:07 |
| Venemo | mintux: they are pretty easy. | 22:08 |
| mintux | oh oke | 22:08 |
| mintux | so I have my softwares ? | 22:08 |
| mintux | I installed before? | 22:08 |
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| Venemo | mintux: the Backup app can save the names of the apps you previously installed and will reinstall them once you restore the backup | 22:08 |
| mintux | Venemo: nad what happens after backup ? my phone works better? | 22:09 |
| tobis87 | Venemo: also the apps from extra? | 22:09 |
| tobis87 | mintux: will be in the same state, in which it was after you got it | 22:10 |
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| tobis87 | s/will/The n900 will | 22:12 |
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| Venemo | tobis87: yes, it saves the list of apps installed from anywhere | 22:15 |
| Venemo | tobis87: of course you have to enable the repos you installed them from, before restoring them | 22:15 |
| Venemo | mintux: after the update, the N900 will work better. A great deal of bugs have been fixed. Some remain, but not much | 22:16 |
| mintux | hmm | 22:16 |
| mintux | Venemo: actually I don't upgrade . I install a new version of maemo | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | same thing | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | almost | 22:17 |
| Venemo | mintux: yeah. you got what I mean. | 22:17 |
| tobis87 | I never touched the backup, because I thought it was no use, since I don't use the n900 as a phone. I don't like to be available everywhere. | 22:18 |
| Venemo | mintux: if you need further help, just write here. | 22:18 |
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| Venemo | tobis87: it backs up settings, contacts, IM history, bookmarks, calendar, and application list (not the packages themselves, but a list of them) | 22:19 |
| mintux | ok . I don't think im ready tonight for this job . but when I have enough time to do that I'll check here | 22:19 |
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| Venemo | mintux: it takes 5 minutes | 22:19 |
| mintux | really ? | 22:19 |
| Venemo | mintux: yes. read the instructions. it is indeed easy | 22:20 |
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| mintux | hmm | 22:20 |
| Venemo | mintux: don't forget to backup your data | 22:20 |
| Venemo | mintux: to your computer | 22:20 |
| mintux | Venemo: what is your os ? | 22:20 |
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| Venemo | mintux: Currently booted on Windows 7, but I also use Fedora 13 | 22:21 |
| tobis87 | Venemo: Thanks, I should consider it in the future then. | 22:21 |
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| Venemo | tobis87: what is your problem with mobile phones? | 22:21 |
| jacekowski | well, it's like a leash | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | but i've trained other people | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | that i just ignore the phone | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | and then maybe call back later | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | so nobody calls me | 22:23 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: leash? how so? | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | what do you think | 22:24 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: to me, it is a tool that helps me stay in touch with people | 22:25 |
| tobis87 | Venemo: Getting called, when you are in a situation, where you can't hear the other (football), when it annoys other people (train), on the toilet and relatives ask you if everything is fine (every day), and so on... | 22:25 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: haha! it has its downsides | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | that's why i have phone always on silent | 22:25 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: I simply don't accept calls or take it to offline when I don't want to be called | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | except when i expect a call | 22:25 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: but it is good to be able to quicly call someone when I need it | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | i treat phone like a portable telephone booth | 22:26 |
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| jacekowski | i can call everybody | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | but nobody can call me | 22:26 |
| Venemo | jacekowski: haha! I get your point | 22:26 |
| steinex | anyone can tell me how to not make the phone blink when a call is received? | 22:26 |
| steinex | instead just show the screen without blinking? | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | no | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | that's a bug | 22:27 |
| Venemo | steinex: install MohamadAG's fixed Hildon-Desktop | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | hmm, it's fixed | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | amazing | 22:27 |
| Venemo | the bug is fixed, but not yet released by Nokia | 22:27 |
| steinex | Venemo: hmm, where can i read more about it? | 22:27 |
| Venemo | fortunately, it is open source | 22:27 |
| Venemo | so MohammadAG created a package that contains this fix among others | 22:27 |
| Venemo | steinex: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60599 | 22:28 |
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| Venemo | steinex: reboot is recommended after installing the package | 22:29 |
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| steinex | Vanadis: thx for the tip with MohamadAGs hildon-desktop | 23:01 |
| steinex | works fine | 23:01 |
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| ahynes1 | Can anyone here help me with Connection issues? | 23:01 |
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| steinex | it also seems fastersomehow.. | 23:01 |
| mintux1 | is it possible to select text from pdf ? | 23:02 |
| lcuk | steinex, MohammadAG51 reverted a change that could do with being an option really | 23:02 |
| lcuk | ahynes1, whats up | 23:03 |
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| lcuk | mintux1, dunno, on desktop theres a select mode, does it exist here | 23:03 |
| * lcuk has no pdfs to test | 23:03 | |
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| Vanadis | steinex, wat | 23:03 |
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| ahynes1 | I tried adding a new APN to support IPv6 connectivity, and when I did, all other connections disappeared | 23:04 |
| mintux1 | lcuk: I don't thing it works . because that select tools it's only for browser | 23:04 |
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| crashanddie | xnt14: around? | 23:04 |
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| ahynes1 | I can still see them with gconftool-2 and in the /var/lib/gconf/system/osso/connectivity/IAP directory, | 23:04 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: around? | 23:04 |
| ahynes1 | but not when I try to estabilish a new connection | 23:05 |
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| ahynes1 | I can also connect to WiFi using dbus-send, but no other way | 23:05 |
| lcuk | oh cripes ahynes1 IDK this one I have never looked at how the ipv6 stuff interacts | 23:05 |
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| ahynes1 | It doesn't seem to be related to ipv6. | 23:06 |
| mintux1 | do we have pptp vpn client for connect to windows vpn server in maemo ? | 23:06 |
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| Venemo | steinex: it's Venemo and not 'Vanadis' :P | 23:09 |
| Venemo | mintux1: there is OpenVPN that I can recall | 23:09 |
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| MohammadAG51 | is there any way to debug the conversations app? | 23:11 |
| mintux1 | Venemo: does openvpn support pptp ? | 23:11 |
| Venemo | mintux1: I dunno, never tried | 23:12 |
| Venemo | mintux1: google is your friend | 23:12 |
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| mintux1 | Venemo: the structure of vpn between windows and linux is different | 23:12 |
| mintux1 | ok | 23:12 |
| Venemo | mintux1: I use some weird Cisco VPN thingy for work, but that uses some other protocol | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: More cutbacks. | 23:13 |
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| Venemo | mintux1: I haven't tried any VPN options on the N900 yet. I dunno of any scenario when it would be useful fo rme | 23:13 |
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| mintux1 | ok | 23:13 |
| ahynes1 | Kernel Power supports pptp... | 23:13 |
| ahynes1 | (But I haven't tested it) | 23:14 |
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| ahynes1 | Check wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power | 23:14 |
| ahynes1 | There is also a link to a pptp tutorial | 23:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, oh, well, he was already cut once. | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, this contract was just for 3.4 | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which took about a year. . . . | 23:16 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Well, true. | 23:16 |
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| MohammadAG51 | FUUUCK | 23:20 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lost all my damn conversations | 23:20 |
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| ahynes1 | I lost all my conversation when I did a recent upgrade, but there was a trick that brought them back | 23:21 |
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| MohammadAG51 | ooh, backups | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | love rsync | 23:21 |
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| MohammadAG51 | Hmm, conversations starts now but crashes :( | 23:27 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG51: the Backup app also backs them up | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | i haven't backed up in ages | 23:27 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG51: I do that once in every one or two weeks | 23:29 |
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| MohammadAG51 | well, I don't :p | 23:29 |
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| MohammadAG51 | any way to recover the db? | 23:29 |
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| MohammadAG51 | it's 62.1M . | 23:30 |
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| secyritas | hmm, maybe | 23:31 |
| secyritas | MohammadAG51: http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q21 might help | 23:32 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: can you open it? | 23:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | Conversations load the db, up to a point where it crashes | 23:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | most logs seem undamaged but... can't use conversations, at all | 23:51 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, copy database onto your desktop and use one of the many sqlite viewing tools | 23:51 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i copied it to /home for the time | 23:51 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: open it using sqlite | 23:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | what good is that? | 23:52 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i want it back on the N900, not on a PC | 23:52 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: sqlite path/to/db "PRAGMA integrity_check" | 23:52 |
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| trumee | mintux1: there is a long thread on pptp on t.m.o | 23:53 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: the point is, if you can read it through sqlite, we can fix it | 23:53 |
| trumee | mintux1: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48725 should get you going. | 23:54 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: that's why opening it using a sqlite viewing tool is handy | 23:54 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, open in regular system | 23:54 |
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| lcuk | and SEE if theres any visible corruption | 23:54 |
| crashanddie | though the integrity_check() should help you understand what the problem is | 23:55 |
| lcuk | if you have 60mb of zeros that sweet FA we can do | 23:55 |
| trumee | lcuk: does conversation db get slower over time? | 23:55 |
| crashanddie | trumee: yes | 23:55 |
| trumee | crashanddie: crap! | 23:55 |
| lcuk | trumee, all databases get slower *with more content* | 23:55 |
| lcuk | they don't however suffer old age unless you add/remove records | 23:55 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk raises a good point, if you don't have any friends, your db will be very fast! | 23:56 |
| Appiah | :D | 23:56 |
| trumee | do we need to defrag the vfat partition often? | 23:56 |
| crashanddie | no | 23:56 |
| Jartza | wow | 23:56 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, open your database in Microsoft Access, select Compact and Repair :P | 23:56 |
| crashanddie | trumee: it's flash, defragmentation doesn't really apply | 23:56 |
| Jartza | after 3 weeks of maemo-courses I'm a bit exhausted | 23:56 |
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| trumee | crashanddie: flash doesnt suffer from fragmentation? | 23:57 |
| crashanddie | Jartza: try maemo-cursing for 2 weeks. | 23:57 |
| Jartza | and started to think how strange finnish language actually is | 23:57 |
| Zucca | Does anyone know what would be the easiest way to have webcam on N900? Just mjpeg over http would be fine. | 23:57 |
| lcuk | trumee, flash almost doesn't care about it | 23:57 |
| lcuk | its not like hard drive physical spinning disks | 23:57 |
| crashanddie | trumee: there's no disk spinning with a needle having to move around physically | 23:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | wow | 23:57 |
| lcuk | and time to move heads | 23:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | skype's kinda fast | 23:57 |
| Jartza | crashanddie: sometimes this teaching makes me wanna curse a low :) | 23:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | i guess 12000+ messages do slow it down | 23:57 |
| trumee | crashanddie: ah! got it. | 23:57 |
| Jartza | finnish is like... condensed efficiency | 23:58 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: I'm guessing if you had a very, very big flash chip, like multiple cm or even ft long, fragmentation could be an issue (due to the speed of light) | 23:58 |
| Jartza | for example "without a female rider" can be said with one word: "ratsastajattaretta" :) | 23:58 |
| Jartza | efficient :D | 23:59 |
| lcuk | Jartza, | 23:59 |
| Kegetys | cant you still have a file fragmented on multiple flash cells, making the reading slower when you need to read all the cells contents including the data that is not that file | 23:59 |
| lcuk | please can you pick my teeth up | 23:59 |
| lcuk | i dropped them on the floor trying to say that out loud | 23:59 |
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