IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-08-31

Jartzaresistance is futile00:00
tobis87SpeedEvil: I wouldn't know how to use or program a buffer with garbage collection... All I ask about is, is there already something done, which could break, if I put an encryption layer between swap use and the disk access.00:00
tobis87or fs and disk00:01
SpeedEvilNo, it will just work.00:01
SpeedEvilIt may not be fast, but meh.00:01
tobis87ok, i'm just scared about all this aligment stuff00:01
JartzaI'm slowly assimilating Finnish mobile-development companies00:02
tobis87since i first read about the new harddrives and now the same stuff in real.00:02
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meceok I think I got it working now.00:15
DocScrutinizerblizzow3: (no sluggishness in BB mail) haha, it cheats. It downloads and presents first mail, and then in background downloads the rest (at least that's what I've heard, never even touched such critter). So yeah, it *looks* fast, but don't think about switching immediately to msg #2 :-P00:16
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meceyay        fheroes2    0.5.1916-maemo-3     Build succeeded      2010-08-30 21:2200:23
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mortiniDocScrutinizer: at least on my bb, it doesn't do that, i just use the imap push junk. it does, however, just download part of the message00:28
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: (alarm_queue.ini) it's probably written by alarmd on quit. caller-ui does exactly that, that's the reason you need to kill -9 it in *#-ena, as otherwise the edits in the config file are overwritten and lost00:30
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DocScrutinizerseems a lot of programs work that way. xchat the same, obviously00:32
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DocScrutinizerit's actually a very bad practice, as all 'edits' the process does 'locally' during runtime are lost if process terminates ungracefully00:34
DocScrutinizerprobably a side effect of OO coding :-S Save in object destructor00:35
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lcukDocScrutinizer, it depends on the app makeup yeah00:49
lcuksometimes configuration propertybags are held until the end, othertimes they are pushed as modified00:50
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DocScrutinizerread-modify-write on every change would be much saner00:51
DocScrutinizer*especially* on a mobile device00:52
* DocScrutinizer should post some best practice recommendation regarding that00:53
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DocScrutinizerhell, how often I've lost all the xchat configs done with much effort, just because I forgot to restart(sic!) xchat after editing, and eventually xchat got killed on system shutdown00:54
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lcukDocScrutinizer, thats an organisational issue too01:01
lcukbecause active external monitoring of config changes alters the app flow01:01
jacekowskithat's why irssi have /save01:02
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: err, active external monitoring? please elaborate. I suggested a simple read-modify-write inside the procedure/method actually changing a setting, rather than read-on-constructor change-locally write-in-destructor01:05
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: a /save is sane, if app *only* saves on /save01:06
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jacekowskiwell, thing is that saving everything everytime you modify something is just a waste01:06
DocScrutinizerif, however, app saves on quit _sometimes_, depending on lateral conditions of particular quit, that's bad01:07
DocScrutinizerno matter if there's also a /save or not01:07
lcukPEBKAC :P01:07
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lcukyou know it happens, so shutdown xchat when you are messing01:08
DocScrutinizerBS! I don't want to shutdown xchat to save changes :-S01:08
DocScrutinizerI even received spanking on IRC because of doing that, in an extended way01:09
jacekowskiwell, irssi is asking on quite if you want to save or not01:10
jacekowskiif there were any changes01:10
jacekowskiirssi ftw01:10
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: what help is this, when device shuts down hard due to bat low or whatever01:10
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:11
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DocScrutinizeras a general rule, on a mobile device you SHALL keep everything as persistent as possible, and flush early and often, as you MUST NOT expect a sane clean system shutdown01:12
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.01:12
satmdnice one01:15
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satmdI'd replace everything by non-temporary data, but I agree :)01:16
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: (waste) how much waste can this be, reading a <5k config file, and writing it back - every once in a few hours?01:16
luke-jrhow do I get networking inside qemu-maemo?01:16
jacekowskiimagine 100s of programs doing that01:16
satmduhm, I guess it uses atime01:16
DocScrutinizerwhat exactly are you wasting doing that?01:16
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satmdatime/stat is cheap01:17
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ther's no config changes in 100s of programs concurrently01:17
luke-jrI would hope N900 doesn't support atime01:17
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DocScrutinizersure it supports atime. Just drives a monted noatime01:18
luke-jrthat's obviously what I mean01:18
luke-jrnetworking on qemu maemo01:18
loufoqueis there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs01:18
jacekowski-nic something01:18
jacekowskilike in normal qemu i would expect01:18
jacekowskiloufoque: oO01:18
satmd-net nic01:18
luke-jrjacekowski: Maemo doesn't support NICs does it?01:18
jacekowskiloufoque: do you have PR1.2?01:19
satmdand maybe -net user for the other end01:19
jacekowskiluke-jr: it should01:19
luke-jrdo I need to load some module?01:19
DocScrutinizerloufoque: yes, it's called optification01:19
jacekowskiwith bit of trickery and modules01:19
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it should be done with unionfs01:19
loufoque/opt isn't on the eMMC as far as I can see01:19
jacekowskithat's my opinion01:19
jacekowskiloufoque: it should be01:19
DocScrutinizerloufoque: it is01:20
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loufoqueoh right, /home/opt on /opt01:20
infobotoptification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs01:20
loufoquebut I've got much more space on /home/user/MyDocs01:22
loufoquewhy can't I just use that space01:22
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jacekowskibecause it's vfat01:22
jacekowskinot compatible01:22
DocScrutinizerloufoque: please read the page infobot posted URL above. It's all in there01:23
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loufoquecouldn't I just format it to ext301:25
loufoqueand put everything on one big partition01:25
DocScrutinizernope, as that will break things01:25
DocScrutinizerthere are a few things in maemo that expect to see a vfat there01:26
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jacekowskihmm, but he could resize it01:27
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DocScrutinizerNokia could have sanitized the whole optification madness with PR1.2, but they were so happy with their inventive duct tape botch so they will most likely keep it forever now, maybe even migrate the concept to meego as it panned out so incredibly great01:28
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jacekowskiand they could use some sort of vfat emulation01:29
Macerso does anybody know why facebrick says unauthorized source ip address?01:29
DocScrutinizerbah! have a decent classical, nah orthodox partitioning and earn01:29
DocScrutinizerwhy the hell must things get symlinks from usr/ to opt/ while usr/ still on NAND?? there's absolutely NO sane reason why usr/ can't get an own drive. That's been the rationale usr/ was introduced01:31
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DocScrutinizerback in the 1960s01:32
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DocScrutinizerUnix System Resources: all the executables and other system resources not needed for core boot to single user mode. Kept un usr/ to allow a separate drive that may even fail and system still can boot to service mode01:34
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DocScrutinizernow if you create a distry and have nfc about such things, and dare to rely on usr/ in your init scripts, then umm what should unix gurus call you?01:37
DocScrutinizerthen if you go on and instead of fixing the root cause, throw out everything needed for boot from usr/ and keep it in bin/ and sbin/ etc instead, where it belongs according to FHS, and rather invent a thing called 'optification'... :-x01:40
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jacekowskithing is01:43
jacekowskithat people like to touch things they know fuck all about01:44
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jacekowskiand make it overcomplicated01:44
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DocScrutinizeryeah, instead of moving 10 files from /usr/bin to /bin, we now have 942++ symlinks from /usr/bin to /opt/usr/bin and only 10 real files in /usr/bin. *GREAT*01:46
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jacekowski942++ = 94301:51
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DocScrutinizernope, I've overloaded ++ :-P01:52
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loufoque942++ is 94201:54
loufoquedoesn't really make sense actually, ++ only works on lvalues01:55
DocScrutinizerand - btw - those mentioned 10 files are the exact 10 files that don't belong there. But who cares, as /usr also doesn't belong where it actually is :-P01:55
MohammadAG51wget, zip, and unrar don't seem to be optified01:56
DocScrutinizerprobably messybox needs them to start init :-P01:57
MNZCan someone explain what the correct answer to this fiasco (pun intended. sue me) of an FS is?01:57
zeltakevening kinda worried..i started logging my crahses/reboots when using emulators and got card I/O errors:
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zeltakit only happens when using emultaors..does that mean my internal memory is screwed?01:58
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, lol they're not on the stock firmware :p01:58
DocScrutinizerMNZ: please rephrase01:58
MNZThe whole symlink hell and optification that nokia invented, what was the simpler answer to the problem they solved? Actually, scratch that, someone remind me what the problem is/was again.01:59
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DocScrutinizerthe problem is [2010-08-31 00:18:46] <loufoque> is there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs02:00
MNZno no I mean the *problem* that nokia faced which they solved with the whole optification thing.02:01
MohammadAG51256MB rootfs02:01
DocScrutinizerfillup of 235MB NAND rootfs, due to /usr living on NAND02:01
MNZand /usr cannot live on eMMC?02:02
DocScrutinizersure it can, and it SHALL02:02
MohammadAG51it _can_, but the eMMC is slower02:02
MohammadAG51i don't mind shoving maemo 5 on the emmc02:02
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, did you see egoshin's eMMC scripts?02:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: uhuh, so when calling it opt and symlinking it, it gets considerably faster, no?02:03
MNZMohammadAG51, so the solution for a slow /usr is to use /opt (on eMMC!) and symlink stuff :/ ?02:03
Macertrying to find the latest nitdroid rootfs02:03
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MohammadAG51hey, i didn't invent scotch tape02:03
MNZjust so we are clear, that last thing I said *is* actually what happened?!? I was sorta joking...02:04
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DocScrutinizeryes, exactly that was happening02:04
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MohammadAG51how does maemo 5 handle mmc crap?02:05
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MohammadAG51on ubuntu, mmcblk0 is the microSD02:05
MohammadAG51same with nitdroid fedora etc..02:05
MohammadAG51but on maemo 5 it's mmcblk102:05
DocScrutinizerit's renamed sometime during boot iirc02:06
MNZIMHO if there's going to be a PR1.3 it shouldn't be out without a sane answer to the limited nand space02:06
MohammadAG51so, assuming maemo 5 is moved to the eMMC, or the microSD, would it rename them?02:06
DocScrutinizerthe answer is optification, according to nokia02:06
MohammadAG51i'm thinking of backing up my shit then moving maemo 5 and adding a bootmenu entry02:07
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: you can ask questions :-P02:07
MohammadAG51problem is02:07
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MohammadAG51the bootmenu is on the rootfs02:08
MohammadAG51hmm, the OneNAND is fast, can it be used as swap?02:08
DocScrutinizerbut it's also very limited space02:09
MohammadAG51but it's faster swap02:09
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* MohammadAG51 installs grub to /dev/mtd0 :P02:10
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nox-grub works on n900? :)02:10
MohammadAG51lol doubtful02:10
zeltakso kinda related to the current discussion the error i get is:  mmcblk0: error -84 transferring data, sector 60919576, nr 256, card status 0x90002:10
nox-MohammadAG51, thats why i asked :)02:10
zeltaki get it loads of times
MohammadAG51hmm, replace it?02:10
DocScrutinizerMNZ: the PITA is: fix this shit on your device, and epically fail on next SSU02:10
jacekowskizeltak: have you overclocked it?02:10
zeltakjacekowski:  nope not at all02:11
jacekowskiwell, it's broken anyways02:11
zeltakand i only get reboots during using game emulators02:11
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zeltakahh shit....02:11
zeltakits not my month :( first my laptop now the phone..crap..02:11
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zeltakso what part is screwed..the internal memory?02:12
MohammadAG51don't you just like it when terminal gets mixed up02:12
MohammadAG51anyone got any success in mounting an mtd block?02:13
MohammadAG51yeah jacekowski, i know02:13
zeltakshit....anyone knows how does one procced in the USA? does nokia have serice points here02:13
DocScrutinizerzeltak: first try a reflash of eMMC02:13
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MohammadAG51backup before trying that02:13
MohammadAG51eMMC reflash might fail02:13
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: mounting?02:13
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: just use mount02:13
MohammadAG51not on the N90002:14
zeltakthx DocScrutinizer i will..i actually reflashed a few days ago..wait so the mmcnlk0 i the emmc?02:14
zeltakahh i see..ok i will flash it again but after that is there a badblocks or any other test to run to check the memory?02:15
DocScrutinizerdetecting bad blocks on a mmc isn't exactly simple02:16
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zeltaki see so how does one know if the emmc is defective?02:16
jacekowskihmm, but nand controller should pick it up02:16
MohammadAG51reflash would fail02:16
DocScrutinizeras there's not supposed to be any exposed to 'outside world - mmc controller should handle that internally02:16
MNZDocScrutinizer, because you shouldn't fix it on *your* device. This needs a good answer and a fix through an SSU.... of course this is a huge amount of work, deoptification(I love new words) of all the packages, and succesfully "fixing" everyone's devices in an automated way.... is all this even plausible?02:17
zeltakMohammadAG51: was you referring to my case when you said reflash will fail?02:17
DocScrutinizerMNZ: plausible yes, as in mythbusters :-P02:17
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*** NinetyFiveNL has quit IRC02:18 confused...should i not try to reflash emmc?02:18
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MohammadAG51backup what you have left, reflash, if it fails take it back02:18
DocScrutinizeryou should, and you'll lose your data anyway during the process, so backup02:18
MNZWhen's the next planned SSU?02:18
MohammadAG5120xx afaik02:19
zeltakok thx MohammadAG51 and DocScrutinizer02:19
DocScrutinizerMNZ: nobody knows if and when02:19
MohammadAG51if, yes02:19
MohammadAG51when, idk02:19
jacekowskibut i'm surprised that controller doesn't fix the problem02:19
MNZoh, no plans. goody.02:19
zeltakso if i do reflash succesfully does that mean things are good?02:19
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ack02:19
jacekowskiis that memory so worn that it's not usable anymore02:19
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DocScrutinizercould be early defect02:20
jacekowskiand look at the block numbers02:20
zeltakand if not anyone had any experience with "taking it back" in the USA? how is that done?02:20
MohammadAG51it might go kaboom later02:20
DocScrutinizeror siply a nasty corrupted block02:20
jacekowskithese are sequential02:20
jacekowskilooks like there is no wear leveling applied at all02:20
MohammadAG51zeltak, a bottle of beer, or 10, and a visit to the Nokia store02:21
DocScrutinizerzeltak: first flash VANILLA eMMC02:21
zeltakDocScrutinizer: will do it in a few minutes02:21
DocScrutinizerzeltak: if that doesn't fix things, we'll deal with RMA02:22
jacekowskiand fiasco image02:22
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MohammadAG51hmm, the N95's battery is the same as the N900's02:22
MohammadAG51ignoring size and capacity differences02:22
zeltakthx DocScrutinizer ill report in a few minutes..just the emmc not the root right?02:22
DocScrutinizerzeltak: yes - and COMBINED!02:22
zeltakand combined? so both the root and the emmc..gothca02:23
MohammadAG51don't use -R02:23
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zeltakkk thx MohammadAG5102:23
MohammadAG51when using flasher-3.502:23
DocScrutinizernever flash eMMC without rootfs02:23
zeltaki see thx for the tips02:23
zeltakso first root without -R and then the emmc02:23
DocScrutinizerI'd do it other way round, but in the end without -R it doesn't matter02:24
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DocScrutinizerjust never use -R02:24
zeltakok so ill do it your way DocScrutinizer then 1)reflash vanilla to emmc (without -r) and then reflash root and then reboot..correct02:25
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jacekowskiand let it boot02:25
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jacekowskidon't touch it02:25
zeltakkk cool..back in a few minutes to reprot :)02:25
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* DocScrutinizer got the strange feeling like today is his first level helpdesk day02:26
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MNZThere's no chance I can get my hands on nokia's pulseaudio modules right?02:27
zeltaksorry about the helpday questions DocScrutinizer :)02:27
jacekowskiyou can02:27
DocScrutinizerafaik nope02:27
jacekowskijust not a sources of them02:27
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MohammadAG51what pulseaudio modules02:29
MohammadAG51wtf are those for02:29
infobotMNZ meant: pulseaudio-module-nokia-{common,music,voice}02:30
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MNZwell, one is for common stuff between the mods, the other is for music playback, the third is for voice calls. just guessing02:30
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MohammadAG51meh, no proper description02:30
MohammadAG51i'm off, night o/02:30
jacekowskiwe should check PA license02:31
jacekowskiand double check if it's legal to create closed source PA modules02:31
MNZjacekowski, you mean we could force nokia to release sources!? HEEHAW02:31
jacekowskiwe would have to check license02:31
MNZLGPL :(02:32
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: night02:32
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MNZ*shakes fist* damn you PA devs, you haven't even got your license right :@02:33
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pupnik_hey mhz02:34
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pupnik_you should have some ramen02:34
DocScrutinizerMNZ: you're aware of the 15 pages pdf from that Nokia guy, about maemo audio (mainly PA)?02:34
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MNZDocScrutinizer, as usual, no.02:35
jacekowskiand i wasted another weekend02:35
jacekowskitime to sleep02:35
jacekowskii have to go to work today02:35
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MNZJyri Sarha, I have seen this name in a whole bunch of places now.02:36
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: this should give you an idea about what's in those modules, I guess02:37
MNZnight jacekowski02:37
MNZDocScrutinizer, thanks a lot!02:37
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zeltakDocScrutinizer: emmc flash went well but getting an error on root flash:02:39
zeltakUSB device found found at bus 001, device address 017.02:39
zeltakRaw data transfer EP found at EP2.02:39
zeltakUsing flashing protocol Mk II.02:39
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DocScrutinizerhmm, that's not exactly an error yet, I think02:40
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*** blizzow1 has joined #maemo02:41 how do i proceed..only the emmc was flashed so far02:41
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DocScrutinizerzeltak: maybe it'd help to switch off the device after first flash, and restart with flashing rootfs as usual02:42
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zeltaksorry i dont follow (its been a long day at work... :))..the device is switched off currently after emmc flash02:43
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zeltakso now i should boot it ?02:43
DocScrutinizerok, so proceed with flashing rootfs02:43
DocScrutinizernope, don't 'boot'02:44
zeltakso thats what i did but get the above error02:44
zeltakdevice is powered off and i issued: flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f02:44
DocScrutinizeryou shall keep it from booting into system, by a) holding 'u', b) prestarting flasher command and 'switch on' N900 via simply plugging in USB cable to it02:45
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zeltakahh ok so press power hold down "u" key and start the flasher?02:46
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DocScrutinizerno, don't press power key02:46
MNZzeltak, hold down 'u' and plug in the usb. don't press power02:46
zeltaki see just press u and start flasher and then plug in usb..gotcha02:46
zeltaki see thx02:46
DocScrutinizerjust hold the 'u' key, then plug in to USB. it will auto-on02:46
* lcuk ponders how to do this as an all in one bundle02:46
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MNZno, start flasher only after usb is plugged in and phone is actually on02:47
lcukzenity is the console shell script UI decision thing isnt it02:47
DocScrutinizerlcuk: like "/me wonders idly if flasher takes multiple img arguments" ?02:47
zeltakahhhh success :) :)02:48
DocScrutinizerexactly the line I was about to type02:48
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DocScrutinizerzeltak: :-)02:48
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zeltakman im sure learning some stuff
pigeoncan you tell modest not to do the initial imap connect on startup, it seems to be doing it even automatic e-mail check is off.02:48
lcukluke-jr, ta for the O_EXCL doofer by the way, helped a lot with thinking about something02:48
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zeltakok flashed succesfullt....reboot?02:49
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infobotMNZ meant: boooot02:49
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DocScrutinizerand give it time to crank up stuff02:49
zeltakheheh ok boooting02:50
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* lcuk ponders what life would be like living so far away from wifey. she says i txt her more when i travel02:50
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zeltakbtw thx all you guys for the help..really appriciate it...i could use some good news after crashing my x200 laptop into shreds on the subway this week :)02:51
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zeltakyeah thats what i said when it happens only much louder ;-)02:52
lcukjees, they are tough devices02:52
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zeltaki know..its still semi works and its in the shop now...ill see at the end of the week what can be done..02:53
DocScrutinizerget a toughbook CF-29 :-D02:53
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DocScrutinizernot fast, but heavy and really ruggedized02:54
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lcukDocScrutinizer, i need something tough for my desk02:54
zeltakok n900 seems to boot i safe or do i need to make some tests now on the emmc?02:54
DocScrutinizer90cm free fall, no harm02:54
lcuknice pen+capacitive driven touch surface02:54
* lcuk needs to write on it as well as touch02:55
lcukand about a4 sized!02:55
zeltakwow the toughbooks actually looks cool :)
DocScrutinizerzeltak: I'm short of cute ideas regarding tests. You might want to dd some 20GB from dev/zero to a file on MySpace02:55
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zeltaki see..ok ill do that. the thing is that i only got crashes when using emulators..thats what was weird02:57
DocScrutinizeryeah, and CF-27..29 can be used to place under the tire when your SUV gets stuck in a sandfield :-D02:57
* lcuk wants sapphire glass stuff actually02:57
zeltaklol..that was a good one :-)02:57
lcukcrowss bows fired at them etc02:57
lcukbut can they work as touch hmm02:58
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: you lost me02:58
lcuksee that02:58
zeltakso i guess back to normal with n900..let the re-installing beginen ;-)02:59
zeltakthx agian guys appriciate it!02:59
lcukzeltak, when you boot02:59
lcukbefore you do much else02:59
lcukcould you get output of "df" please02:59
lcukand save it to a file02:59
lcukand when you get everything running pastebin it02:59
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zeltaksure lcuk03:00
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lcukgreat :)03:00
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zeltakso pastbin it before the installs or now?03:00
lcukbefore you install everything03:00
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zeltakkk will do it now03:01
lcukso essentially we have a freespace after flash log, not sure if its anywhere03:01
lcukbut I always forget03:01
lcukand install tonnes of stuff03:01
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zeltaksure np give me a sec03:01
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (shoot at moni) yes, and tomorrow I have a date with santa claus03:01
lcukDocScrutinizer, for future reference do you think theres a set of commands we oculd pull into a single short script to get stats03:02
lcukto ask people who are having problems to run in one shot03:02
DocScrutinizerwhich sort of stats03:02
DocScrutinizerhmm, quite some...03:02
lcukdiskspace mounts processes + any other misc things03:02
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lcukthe normal stuff we ask for on regular basis03:02
DocScrutinizerwhere's speedevil?03:03
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lcukwell yeah, its just a ponderment03:03
DocScrutinizerseem to remember he was working on such a thing03:03
lcukbut if we had a single command on device we could ask03:03
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lcukit would have to be very small though, minimal dependencies03:03
lcukwhats up03:03
zeltakN900 is screwed...:( :(03:03
lcukin what regard03:04
zeltakjust had a
zeltakit just frooze and rebooted03:04
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DocScrutinizercat /proc/bootreason03:04
zeltakoh man....what a week...03:04
zeltakwow after a reboot cant open xterm...03:05
lcuk"cat /proc/boot_reason" please03:05
DocScrutinizerlcuk: you're cheating03:05
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DocScrutinizeryou ls03:05
lcukand zeltak do you have an extrnal mms plugged in and a sim?03:06
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zeltakmms no sim yes03:06
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zeltaki do have a sim inside03:06
lcukwhen you say can't open xterm, what happens03:06
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zeltaki get a black screen saying internal error03:07
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zeltakok reboot fixed it03:07
DocScrutinizercan you start other apps?03:07
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zeltakDocScrutinizer: yes seems so03:08
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zeltaki can now get access to the term after a reboot03:08
zeltakcat /proc/bootreason?03:08
DocScrutinizererr yup, something like that03:08
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zeltakwell it says power key but that makes sense since i did use the pkey after the xterm didnt launch03:09
lcukif you manually rebooted yeah03:09
DocScrutinizerat least if that's been an unsolicited boot03:09
DocScrutinizerhmm, no03:09
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DocScrutinizerthen it's not helpful03:09
lcukno,have a run around and see if anything jumps again, but thats a bit unnormal03:10
DocScrutinizerkinda sounds like your device is acting unstable03:10
* lcuk nods03:10
zeltakyeah...i wonder if indeed the emmc is defective but the reflashing went without issues03:10
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lcukyeah theres normally lots of checking on flashing03:11
DocScrutinizernot on eMMC03:11
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lcukahh where it expand fills with 0s?03:12
lcukor whatever it does03:12
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lcukto make a 500mb image occupy 30gb03:12
* lcuk nods03:12
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zeltakso what do you guys suggest..take it back or test it some more?03:13
lcukzeltak, if you are in a position to get it replaced, i think i would03:13
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DocScrutinizerdd if=/dev/zero of=~/MyDocs/xxx bs=1M count=1500003:14
zeltaklcuk: well i bought it 2nd hand so its not going to be easy (even though its under warrent)03:14
zeltakDocScrutinizer: will do it now03:14
lcukzeltak, then have a run around the device and see03:14
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lcukDocScrutinizer, what cpu speed is it running at when flasher is on03:14
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lcukand whilst in flash mode rather03:14
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DocScrutinizers/15000/<whatever df -h MySpace>GB * 100003:15
lcukis it top speed?03:15
lcukor some lower fraction03:15
lcukor is that unknown03:15
DocScrutinizer-50 for overhead03:15
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: no clue03:16
zeltakDocScrutinizer: the above dd dosent work03:17
lcukzeltak, just install your stuff and have a poke about03:17
DocScrutinizerso 'unknown' is pretty much what describes it best03:17
lcukand see if it happens again03:17
zeltakok lcuk03:17
* lcuk makes a note to ask03:17
DocScrutinizerzeltak: why?03:17
SpacedOutAny one else have any NAND bad blocks?  I'm seeing this very early in boot "Scanning device for bad blocks" "onenand_bbt_wait: ecc error = 0x2222, controller error 0x2400" "Bad eraseblock 254 at 0x01fc0000"03:17
lcuki remember my old athlon used to get hot in bios03:17
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lcukSpacedOut, technically bad blocks are normal03:18
lcukthe device happily marks them bad and works round them03:18
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zeltakDocScrutinizer: dunno it just gives me the dd options03:18
lcukor something like that03:18
DocScrutinizerthere's been even a competiton afternoon here some time ago, who's got the least number of bad blocks on NAND03:19
SpacedOutlcuk: I rebooted and it didn't come up until I reflashed the rootfs, unfortunately I don't have an old dmesg that I know of to know if it just happened and that's why it couldn't boot or not.03:19
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SpeedEvilThe device capacity is specced something like "256M after 1 million write cycles to each block"03:19
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DocScrutinizerzeltak: strange. probably it doesn't like the ~03:20
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SpeedEvilThe initial capacity is higher than this, with the expectatrion that blocks will fail in use03:20
lcukhi se03:20
SpacedOutInteresting, one of the guys at worked checked and he didn't have any bad blocks.03:20
zeltakill try with full path03:20
SpacedOutThe flashing software also detects and writes around bad blocks as well?03:21
SpeedEvilSpacedOut: yes.03:21
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: hi, where you've been?03:22
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lcuki am off to bed anyway03:22
lcukgnite chaps03:22
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MNZnight lcuk03:22
cehtehmhm .. i think my LED controller crashed .. need to pull out battery to do a cold boot to make it work again03:22
DocScrutinizerzeltak: yeah, and check my syntax03:22
zeltakthc lcuk and gdnight03:22
zeltakkk DocScrutinizer03:22
DocScrutinizerzeltak: it's late here03:23
DocScrutinizerlcuk: night03:23
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DocScrutinizercehteh: :-P03:24
cehtehthings getting too complex when something which could be done with a transistor and a resistor in the old days can crash now03:25
luke-jrok, I'm wasting too much time on this03:25
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DocScrutinizercehteh: lol03:25
luke-jrif anyone wants to pick up where I left off, contact me before I forget everything I did tonight03:25
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I have been cleaning up after my fishtank leaked.03:25
SpeedEvilInvolving moving all furniture, ...03:25
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zeltakok DocScrutinizer i think its working with full paths03:25
MNZluke-jr, pick up what?03:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: lcuk asked about a general diagnostics script, for 'helpdesk purposes'03:26
luke-jrMNZ: telepathy-spirit on x86 Linux03:26
luke-jrMNZ: aka Skype w/o Skype03:26
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SpeedEvilI could distribute a live diagnostics program.03:26
luke-jrMNZ: also the only remote possibility of getting N900 video chat with desktop Linux03:27
SpeedEvilFunded by retrieved credit card numbers.03:27
DocScrutinizerzeltak: prepare for making and drinking a cup of coffee :-P03:27
MNZluke-jr, oh sweet! a quick fill in perhaps?03:27
lcukSpeedEvil, simple script, runs once saves file in MyDocs and also somewhere else.  no real extra dependencies03:27
luke-jrMNZ: ok, first of all, skyhost crashes in qemu-user, so don't bother trying that03:27
lcuksomething user can be talked to plug back into desktop pc and upload03:27
luke-jrMNZ: I'm working with the qemu-maemo fork on gitorious03:27
MNZk, taking notes03:28
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lcukgets output of the commands we ask all the time03:28
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luke-jrMNZ: you can dd all your /dev/mtd* together to create a mtdblock image for it, and then replace NOLO with MeeGo's NOLO, plus an extra 8 MB on the end, to make it boot in qemu03:28
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: :-D03:28
nox-oh qemu knows n900 now?03:29
lcukSpeedEvil, and keep the CC sniffing thing away.  this is to be short, simple, verifiable and no personal data03:29
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luke-jrMNZ: to avoid overhead, I also hacked up the start of my /sbin/preinit to simply load the smc91x module (for Ethernet) and run udhcpc to get an IP, after which it just execs /bin/sh03:29
luke-jrnox-: a fork does03:29
lcukbut i am sleeping03:29
nox-link? :)03:29
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luke-jrMNZ: git:// can be run on the host machine to provide dbus over TCP03:30
DocScrutinizerlcuk: at least neads a call to pastebinit in the end03:30
lcukno, thats an extra dependency03:30
lcukif we get the file stored on mydocs03:30
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luke-jrMNZ: the qemu side can connect to it with DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=tcp:host=,port=1234,family=ipv4 (not sure that's the env var name…)03:30
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lcukmost people can go from there03:30
DocScrutinizerlcuk: there's pastbinit implemented in scripting03:31
lcukDocScrutinizer, i just want to make the process a little less painful03:31
DocScrutinizerperl or sth03:31
lcuknot try to be too clever03:31
luke-jrMNZ: from there, it's a matter of making the qemu side start its telepathy-spirit and connect/auth with the real session bus, when telepathy wants it to start03:31
luke-jrMNZ: big unknown, and why I'm not going on right now: skyhost also has binaries 'videohost' and 'voicehost', which are probably needed for video chat too, and telepathy doesn't *really* support voice/video03:32
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luke-jrso how videohost/voicehost would talk to the host system is unknown at this time03:32
luke-jrpotentially, you may need a guest-side app handling forwarding RTP03:32
DocScrutinizerlcuk: and, on assuming we don't want user to type in the script manually anyway, it can as well become a 200k or 2M executable of any kind03:33
DocScrutinizerlcuk: selfcomprised03:33
MNZluke-jr, ok, all duly noted. (and in the IRC logs as well)03:33
MNZbut you don't plan on continuing work on this?03:33
luke-jrit's taking too much time ☹03:33
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luke-jrI really *need* it in a week from today, but I have higher priorities03:34
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luke-jralso, telepathy-spirit was acting odd in the VM03:34
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luke-jrnot sure where to begin troubleshooting that03:34
luke-jrit sounded like it expected skyhost to *already* be running03:34
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MNZI might take a detour from what I'm doing now and look into this, seems interesting. But I have a lot of downloading to do :-X03:34
luke-jrI'd just boot the full Maemo in the VM, but it doesn't emulate SGX, so Maemo crashes and reboots03:35
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luke-jrso probably one needs to figure out exactly what other stuff to run for it03:35
MNZbut the end result of all this? no easy solution for the avg joe?03:36
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luke-jrnone of the Maemo stuff is redistributable of course03:36
MNZluke-jr, not *legally* anyway ;)03:37
MNZthough I don't intend to distribute anything illegally, just saying03:37
* MNZ >.> <.<03:38
luke-jrin theory, one could make an app that SSH's to a N900 to build the image… :p03:38
luke-jrthen the avg joe just installs sshd, and voila03:38
MNZin theory, yes.03:38
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MNZI have never really used skype, so does anyone know what's the state of the linux client? it doesn't do video?03:42
luke-jrnot with N90003:43
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luke-jrnor does Mac for that matter03:44
luke-jronly the latest beta for Windows03:44
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nox-i thought theres a linux skype version with video?03:47
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MNZnox-, there is apparently, it just doesn't do calls with the version on the n90003:47
MNZread what luke-jr just said03:48
nox-yeah i should pay attention :P03:48
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zeltakDocScrutinizer: so far so goos..2GB...03:56
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MNZI'm off to get some eye-shut time. night folks04:02
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zeltakDocScrutinizer: still awake?04:41
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binceguys some pls tell wot all i need to setup and download to make the sdk for maemo up an running in windows xp06:26
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binceguys some pls tell wot all i need to setup and download to make the sdk for maemo up an running in windows xp06:35
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TermanaN900hey hey06:57
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* MohammadAG51 slaps TermanaN900 07:18
MohammadAG51kinda quiet in here today07:18
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TermanaN900MohammadAG51, it seems to have been kind of quiet for a few days/a week. Maybe its just me07:30
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* scp1 yells out loud08:33
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* ieatlint gives a dirty look08:35
* scp1 blushes08:35
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johnxunclosed <yawn> tags cause oxygen leaks08:45
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zr0is there a patch for the n900 email client so that it supports the IMAP IDLE extension?08:53
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* johnx goes upgrade shopping09:00
johnxlast time I upgraded my desktop was ~200509:01
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mecejohnx, that's when they made the best desktops!09:03
ieatlintyou'll be pleased to know that intel brought back "turbo mode" then09:03
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ieatlintsadly, the tubro button has not yet returned :(09:03
johnxheh. the case I'll be putting mine in isn't quite old enough to have a turbo button09:04
johnxbut it's close09:04
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mecedoes it blow compressed air into the processor?09:04
johnxthat would be awesome09:05
ieatlintclearly it should blow nitrous into it to mimic the car craze09:06
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meceactually, i'm sure it would help with cooling...
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johnxyeah, but to actually spool a turbo you'd need something with P4 levels of heat dissipation09:09
meceso you need another turbo to blow air on the turbo!09:10
scp1Are there any must-have applications, besides the obvious vim, mplayer etc that I've missed?09:10
johnxor a supercharger->turbocharger setup with the supercharger running off a belt from the CPU fan :>09:10
mecescp1, well I don't have vim or mplayer...09:10
scp1Oh, I'm so sorry.09:10
mecejohnx, yeah!!! I want that on my N90009:11
scp1You could lend mine for a while :p09:11
mecescp1, I use nano or khteditor09:11
scp1I tried ines, it didnt work very well. I saw that sdlmame is being ported now, that'd be totally awesome09:11
johnxconboy and xournal for notes, xchat of course, omweather, stopwatch,09:11
mecescp1, snes works very well.09:12
scp1I'm ssh'ing to the server for IM, mail and the like.09:12
scp1mece, Cool, I'll try it out09:12
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mecescp1, I have a gamegripper though.09:13
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scp1Oh, and... Is there a way I can replace the sucky terminal with something like (u)rxvt? :/09:13
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scp1mece, hah. cool stuff09:13
mecescp1, presence VNC is very good, if that kinda thing rocks your boat.09:14
scp1I have no real use for VNC09:15
scp1I'm kinda dissapointed that when coding on the n900, the flip screen thingy doesnt work :(09:15
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johnxyou mean, you mean it doesn't auto-rotate the screen or ... ?09:17
mecehere's some stuff I use: xchat, witter, mastory, mypaint, mussorgsky, scout, qlister, qspot, freeciv, free heroes 2, wesnoth, exult, fcam, drnoksnes, feedingit fmboost/transmitterwidget, comic-widget, firefox09:18
mecescp1, when doesn't it autorotate?09:18
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scp1mece, Well when I'm in the terminal. I'd be able to see a lot more... wait. I just realized that wasnt a very good idea, since the keyboard doesnt autorotate as well. :D09:19
mecescp1, well for text editing try khteditor. it's quite nice, and you can rotate for browsing stuff. Very nice if you do python.09:20
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scp1mece, :) I do Perl, and I can not live without Vim. Thanks though09:20
mecescp1, lol yeah it's kinda awkward to type sideways :D09:20
scp1I must say I'm very, very pleased with the n900 though. Kind of improvement over my 3310! :)09:21
mecescp1, 3310 is an epic phone!09:22
Corsacnothing can beat 331009:22
Corsacexcept maybe 321009:22
meceoh wait 3210 was the phone I meant!09:22
meceyeah. my 3210 survived 2 toilet falls09:23
CorsacI'm not sure we want to hear that story09:23
meceit's not gross. The bowl was clean both times.09:23
Corsacthat's what she said09:24
johnxiNES seems to work just fine here ... except the N900 keyboard is kind awkward09:24
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johnxespecially using my right hand for directions and my left for A+B09:24
mecethe first time I was cleaning the toilet while talking on the phone, and the second time I was drunk and had it in my phone pocket.09:24
mecejohnx, gamegripper!09:24
johnxnintendo DS and/or pandora :)09:25
scp1johnx, the framerate isnt very good...09:25
johnxit seems about 90%+ to me09:25
scp1I havent overclocked mine yet though, maybe you have?09:25
johnxheck no :)09:25
mecescp1, that's strange. framerate on snes i quite nice imo. No overclocking09:25
johnxI don't have the money to replace this thing when the CPU burns up09:26
johnxmece, is that with or without sound?09:26
mecejohnx, with09:26
mecejohnx, I don't have that many games though. But Mortal Kombat is very smooth.09:26
meceand for me completely impossible without the gamegripper.09:27
johnxI love the idea of playing a nice relaxing SNES RPG on my N900 ... but the reality is I rarely find myself in the situation where I have it but not some other form of entertainment09:28
scp1I've just installed the Easy-Debian chroot and rebooted, and it just sits on the loading screen and doing nothing...09:28
Dassujohnx: same here09:28
mecejohnx, I play on the can09:28
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mecescp1, hmm09:29
mecescp1, debian loading screen or maemo?09:29
johnxmece, I just tend to read09:29
scp1mece, maemo09:29
mecescp1, well that kinda blows doesn't it.09:29
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johnxscp1, did you happen to install bootmenu already?09:29
scp1johnx, hmm, no09:30
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johnxwell, you're hosed. reflash09:30
scp1what :|09:30
mecereboot once first and see if it helps09:30
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johnxsorry to be so blunt...but if you can't get in to fix things up, you start running out of options really fast09:30
scp1Yeah I did. Still the same thing..09:30
Stskeepswe do have a rescue initrd fwiw09:31
* DocScrutinizer moos at Stskeeps09:31
Stskeepsmoo DocScrutinizer09:31
mece\o Stskeeps09:31
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: (initrd) so you say, we can select which kernel or at least which rootfs to use for boot? as in "system A fsckd up completely - no problem, boot to B and fix A" ?09:33
scp1shit. :C09:33
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: no, actual shell to play around with09:33
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Stskeepsand go in and fix something09:34
scp1'switch off the device and install the .deb with...'. How on earth should I install something when it's turned off? :/09:34
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: so still useless to do things like partitioning changes, initscript tweaking, etc...09:35
johnxuhm, is there a flashable rescue initrd?09:35
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, we're developing one in meego09:36
meceStskeeps, wow, that's awesome!09:36
johnxah, very cool09:37
Stskeepscontributions welcome09:37
johnxscp1, you're saved.09:37
DocScrutinizerrom above 2 lines of convo I don't see the usecase09:37
* johnx apologizes for predictions of doom and gloom that were behind the times09:37
scp1wait. I shall not do that anymore? ;o09:38
johnxscp1, yeah. go to the page Stskeeps linked09:38
johnxDocScrutinizer, huh. if you can get a shell that has chroot, you're off to a good start at least09:39
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scp1I'm not sure how that would help me, well, I'm not sure what I should do once I get a shell09:40
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DocScrutinizeryeah, IF system has sane kernel, sane modules for kernel, sane messybox to run initscripts, sane upstart, sane initscripts and events scripts... otherwise I won't even see bootmenu - am I missing something?09:40
johnxscp1, remove the whatever debian added to your boot sequence ...09:40
johnxDocScrutinizer, AFAIU, this hooks in pre-init and lets you make some choices from there, like getting a shell, etc09:41
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: hi - I got the flasher .deb installed on the eeepc ok. :) Am I right in thinking there are three things to flash? Combined, Vanilla and Installer ?09:41
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jpinx-eeepcwhat order to fire them in there?09:41
DocScrutinizerflasher isn't flashed itself :-)09:42
johnxjpinx-eeepc, two things to install, the OS and an image for the emmc09:42
DocScrutinizererr installer09:42
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jpinx-eeepcah - ok - so Vanilla first?09:42
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DocScrutinizerthough wiki tells different09:42
jpinx-eeepcthat's why I am asking here ;)09:43
DocScrutinizeromit the -R parameters!09:43
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jpinx-eeepcwhat options for the flash? flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R09:43
jpinx-eeepcOh .. ok09:43
jpinx-eeepcjust the -f09:43
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jpinx-eeepcwhat about the first -F  ?09:44
DocScrutinizersorry, no manpage for flasher on top of my head. cmdline as in ~flashing is correct, minus the -R09:45
infobotsomebody said flashing was
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DocScrutinizerflash vanilla (without -R), switch off device, flash combined as usual. DO NOT BOOT in beetween09:46
scp1uhm. are you sure those instructions are correct?09:47
DocScrutinizermeans : keep 'u' pressed, and switch on device implicitly by pluggin in USB09:47
DocScrutinizerscp1: yes, I am!09:47
DocScrutinizeryou think they are incorrect?09:47
scp1docscrutinizer, this is intended?09:47
DocScrutinizerI don't know codepad09:48
DocScrutinizerI won't click on arbitrary URLs offered to me as bait09:48
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johnxDocScrutinizer, looks like a pastebin clone09:49
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johnxuhm, no, I don't think that looks entirely right scp109:49
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jpinx-eeepchow do I know when It's finished flashing VANILLA over?09:49
johnxthe flasher should return to a prompt09:50
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lbthi johnx09:50
johnxmornin' lbt :)09:50
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jpinx-eeepcok - that was vanilla -- now for combined09:50
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johnxscp1, your download was corrupt09:51
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scp1I downloaded them 3 times man09:52
johnxone sec09:52
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jpinx-eeepcjohnx: is combined very small/quick? It seems to flash in a second09:52
johnxjohn@Schala:~/tmp$ md5sum *rpm09:52
johnxc8c68f5e5b2d350cab1b9a0c48d49db9  kernel-n900-
johnx14397dadd7be2505e8e65cbc80dac3a7  nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm09:52
scp1they are correct09:53
johnxscp1, then your cpio or rpm2cpio is broken?09:53
* johnx shrugs09:53
scp1should I just reflash it with that previous method...09:53
johnxyou could09:53
johnxyou're the one who has to weight the cost/benefit ratio09:54
scp1Well I need it at least booting :p09:54
johnxI give it good odds, that you could get it properly booting with the rescue method in an hour or two09:54
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: yes09:55
johnxif you have a lot of hacks and customizations already applied it's probably faster to recover09:55
DocScrutinizertakes like 5s09:55
johnxif you're ok starting fresh, then just reflash now09:55
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scp1jesus. there is no 64 bit version of the flasher app...09:56
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: ok - seems to have done, pulled the cables, but the faint NOKA is still on the screen and it won't boot09:56
DocScrutinizertakes some time09:56
jpinx-eeepc"some time" as in ten minutes? and hour?09:56
DocScrutinizerbut of course if you omitted -R, you need to switch off and power on manually to boot09:57
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: it refuses to power down when I hold the button09:57
DocScrutinizertakeout battery09:57
jpinx-eeepcso I assume it's still munching stuff09:57
scp1Looks like I'm truly fucked. I cant even run the flash app09:57
jpinx-eeepcscp1: I saw something about 64 bit flashers in the wiki09:58
scp1Yes... but I dont use dpkg09:58
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: check diagnostics output of flasher to verify flashing rootfs went ok09:58
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: errr.. where is that logged?09:59
johnxscp1, a .deb is an ar archive...09:59
DocScrutinizerit's not a question of time it takes, but a matter of "ok" on diagnostic output09:59
DocScrutinizeron your screen where you entered the flasher command09:59
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johnxjpinx-eeepc, what did the flasher print when it was run? take that, copy it to, then give us a link09:59
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jpinx-eeepcscp1: oki doki10:00
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jpinx-eeepcsorry - that was for johnx10:00
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johnxlooks like it didn't even start flashing10:03
johnxdid you connect the N900 through a hub?10:04
jpinx-eeepcHmmm - I did it several times10:04
jpinx-eeepcnope, but I'll try a different USB port on the eeepc10:04
johnxalso, are you using the Nokia cable or another one?10:04
jpinx-eeepcnokia cable10:04
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: switch off N900, then start flashing rootfs as usual (and like advised in wiki)10:05
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: means: start flasher, hold 'u' on N900, plug in usb, N900 will power up automagically - DO NOT power up via power button10:06
jpinx-eeepcok . did a battery-out to kill the n900, now I'll do both flashes again and paste the full output10:06
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: yep the power up with u held worked as it said in the destructions10:06
DocScrutinizeryou only need to do the rootfs flash, when eMMC flash succeeded before10:06
scp1what on earth is the 'FIASCO' image? I cant find it10:07
jpinx-eeepcis eMMC the COMBINED ia the rootfs?10:07
jpinx-eeepcall these names make life confusing10:07
DocScrutinizerthat's the nice thing on "eMMC first, THEN rootfs" - even an accidental boot in between isn't really harmful10:07
johnxscp1, it's the .bin linked from the wiki10:08
DuckbootPlease ppl:
jpinx-eeepcDuckboot: the wiki sux10:08
DuckbootRead it tenf9olds of times10:08
scp1johnx, there are like a zillion on them on that url10:08
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DocScrutinizereMMC == *VANILLA*, rootfs&stuff == *COMBINED*10:08
Duckbootjpinx-eeepc: I read the wiki, and flashed. No probs really.10:08
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: ok -- I did vanilla first as you said10:09
johnxscp1, latest combined is what you need10:09
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: do I start over again and do vanilla again?10:09
johnxjpinx-eeepc, no need10:09
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scp1jpinx-eeepc, thank you10:10
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jpinx-eeepcah - that looks better, it's taking it's time to flash that over this time10:12
jpinx-eeepcI appended > flasher.log to the command so the the full output will be seen10:12
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DocScrutinizerif everything work ok, we won't need the output. We've all seen several times10:13
johnxheh. the standard rule: as soon as you add enough debugging output the problem goes away :)10:13
DocScrutinizerodds are however you'll not notice a stall... :-S10:13
DocScrutinizeras you don't see live output10:13
johnxtee FTW10:14
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* DocScrutinizer suggests appending ` | tee flasher.log` instead10:14
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: "CMT flashed successfully" - do you really want to see the details?10:15
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DocScrutinizerflashing rootfs shouldn't take longer than 60s afak10:15
DocScrutinizernope, that's all fine :-)10:15
DocScrutinizernow power down and boot10:16
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jpinx-eeepc blinking dots......10:17
* DocScrutinizer looks at today's ToDo, searching for a time slot to finally fix that friggin confusing wiki flashing instructions for good10:17
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: I'll give it some time later if you like10:17
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* jpinx-eeepc does the debian wiki sometimes10:17
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: better someone does who knows a 200 successful flashing events and the confusion of users that came up during those10:18
jpinx-eeepcok - accepted new language, location time/date etc. now to see if it'll update10:20
DocScrutinizerthe wiki as is now is so confusing largely due to a lot of people edited in in, used different terminologies, and couldn't resist to mention they feeded their dog during 2nd try of first flash, "dunno if it really matters"10:20
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jpinx-eeepcyea - I know how that goes ;)10:21
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DocScrutinizermoo hrw10:22
johnxalso, that part of the wiki was originally written for the N800 and flasher-3 I think10:23
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: already seeing some better goings-on - the previous owner of this n900 possibly screwed himself up a bit10:25
DocScrutinizerand that power plug nonsense (it IS nonsense for N900, evidently) is highly confusing10:25
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: tbh the whole thing would be clearer if there was one page for each device/model10:26
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: yeah, probably a case of "wut, doesn't work? FFS! Meh, sell the shit and get an iphone"10:26
jpinx-eeepche admitted that he had got an iphone ;)10:26
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: exactly what I'm planning to do10:27
jpinx-eeepccool - I have to go teaching again now, but back later to see if this beastie will update and install stuff properly10:27
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jpinx-eeepcvery happy that is behaving better already :D10:28
crashanddiewho uses twitter here?10:29
DocScrutinizeryou'll love it, if you are willing to learn and RTFM10:29
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DocScrutinizerduh, this isn't twitter???10:29
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: I installed debain on my eeepc - I'll get this N900 to work for me ;)10:29
DocScrutinizerthat's the right spirit10:30
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crashanddieJaffa: ping10:32
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: isn't twitter that reinvention of ##mychan by using browser and ajax?10:32
crashanddieEvery six months or so I wonder whether I should use it or not10:32
crashanddieI ask people to convince me, but nobody did a very good job of it yet10:33
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DocScrutinizerneither will I10:33
johnxcrashanddie, I guess that some authors tend to write clever observational things there10:33
DocScrutinizertwitter == irc for noobs :-P10:33
johnxif you follow a whole bunch of RSS feeds, it might be fun to add a couple twittr feeds to that list (or something)10:34
* johnx makes half-hearted argument for twitter, fails10:34
crashanddieI don't follow RSS feeds10:34
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crashanddieplus, all the usernames I'd fancy are already taken10:35
keriotwitter is IRC for egocentrics, with less space10:35
crashanddieunless I go for mwkntestaccount1 or mwkntestaccount210:35
DocScrutinizerkerio: that as well10:35
crashanddiewhich I have registered10:35
crashanddiefunny thing is, those accounts never sent anything10:35
crashanddiewere marked private immediately10:35
crashanddieand there's like a dozen people following me10:35
* DocScrutinizer sees a picture: a herd of sheep following a butterfly, mesmerized10:36
crashanddielcuk, Jaffa, convince me to tweet10:37
johnxoff-topic: how the *&$% does anyone buy a desktop computer these days? I have *no* clue what is worth what and who to trust in terms of mainboards10:37
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: hurd10:37
crashanddiejohnx: you mean motherboards?10:37
DocScrutinizermeh, knew I should have hit shift-lextra-y10:38
crashanddiejohnx: I have the same problem, admittedly10:38
johnxsee, even my terminology is out of date O_o;10:38
crashanddiejohnx: motherboards were called motherboards for the past 20 years, lol10:38
crashanddiejohnx: maybe not in your cave, but that's just your seattle accent10:38
johnxI've heard mainboard in some circles. mobo in other circles10:39
hrwjohnx: intel or amd?10:39
johnxI think AMD looks like a better deal for more cores right now10:39
johnxso I was going to go with them10:39
jpinx-eeepcjust a quickie - how to zoom in/out with the browser?10:39
crashanddiejohnx: go for intel i7, buy it off, less hassle10:39
kerioor draw a circle10:39
crashanddiejpinx-eeepc: circle with stylus10:39
jpinx-eeepckerio: tks10:39
johnxjpinx-eeepc, swirl your finger, or double tap, or hit the volume keys10:39
kerioor doubletap10:39
* crashanddie awards 2 points to kerio for speed, 2 points to johnx for brevity10:40
hrwjohnx: grab something with 8xx chipset and usb3.0 support. 4 banks of ddr3 and 2x pcie x1610:40
crashanddieIT'S A DRAW10:40
jpinx-eeepcvol ctrl is good :)10:40
* hrw uses opera mobile only10:40
kerioyou can probably also use dbus!10:40
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crashanddiehrw: opera ftw10:40
jpinx-eeepcmight get this connected quicker than I thought now I can see where to enter the password )10:40
johnxhrw, thanks for the tip on the chipset. was about to get a 7xx10:40
Flyser_johnx: whatever you do. dont buy cheap. especially the mainboard ...10:40
johnxcrashanddie, budget isn't there for an i7 right now :P10:41
kerioi'd buy an imac10:41
crashanddiejohnx: then don't buy10:41
nid0motherboard wise not a great deal has changed since abit shut down. anything by asus will come with a premium price, intel boards are solid but generally basic, dfi boards are alright, gigabyte are generally a bit on the cheapo side10:41
hrwjohnx: 8xx gives you southbridge with sata 6Gbps - can be handy when you buy fast ssd10:41
johnxcrashanddie, thanks. that's totally unhelpful10:41
keriothe 27" is a fucking beast10:41
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crashanddiekerio: yeah, have one at work10:41
johnxkerio, with $350, you'd buy an imac?10:41
DocScrutinizer5 point to me for best answer10:41
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: nice one :)10:41
crashanddiejohnx: nope, I' buy new heads for my drumkit10:42
keriojohnx: i'd buy a pair of headphones :|10:42
crashanddiejohnx: with $350, you can buy a netbook10:42
johnxnid0, aaah, now that's what I wanted to know :) thanks10:42
crashanddiejohnx: it usually works better to tell the budget and aimed use first10:42
* kerio sometimes wonders if he has too much expendable income10:43
hrwjohnx: 350$ is all you have for computer?10:43
johnxhrw, i don't really see spending more *shrugs*10:43
crashanddiekerio: same here10:43
johnxit'd cut into my beer fund :P10:43
crashanddieyou have a beer fund?10:43
keriostop drinking, buy mac pro10:43
Flyser_I own two intel mainboards. they are okay with some minor annoyances10:43
keriowtf is a mainboard10:44
crashanddielike, every week you dump money into an account where a broker buys beer for you?10:44
hrwmy next desktop will cost ~1K$ for cpu/ram/mb10:44
crashanddiekerio: motherboard10:44
nid0mainboard == motherboard10:44
nid0interchangable terms10:44
keriocrashanddie: lol10:44
johnxI'm actually just fine with my A64 3000+ / 1GB RAM, but apparently to develop anything for meego I need VT extensions and SSE310:44
kerioif the market goes down you get crappy root beer10:44
hrwjohnx: search for better a64 then10:44
johnxuhm, I'm on socket 93910:44
hrwjohnx: you have am2 one or 939?10:44
Flyser_johnx: a 30$ Celeron will work fine10:45
johnxthat old10:45
crashanddiejohnx, nid0: "The term mainboard is archaically applied to devices with a single board and no additional expansions or capability. In modern terms this would include embedded systems and controlling boards in televisions, washing machines, etc. A motherboard specifically refers to a printed circuit with the capability to add/extend its performance."10:45
hrw939... I have 3200+ singlecore somewhere in drawer10:45
Flyser_johnx: oops. I mean a 70$ pentium. Celerons dont have VT10:45
johnxFlyser_, I mean, I'm not strapped for cash. I figure I'll set a price point of $350 then let myself be convinced to spend a bit more or a bit less10:45
Flyser_johnx: I can recommend the Intel Pentium E630010:45
crashanddiejohnx: then set a price point of $500, and then start hunting10:45
crashanddiejohnx: $350 will get you a granny wallmart desktop that was built to power botnets10:46
hrwjohnx: grab intel775 mainboard with P35 chipset, put there ddr2 ram and cpu with vt/sse310:46
Flyser_johnx: do you want dedicated graphics or is an intel gpu sufficent?10:46
johnxcrashanddie, I don't need a hard drive or case or even video card initially. That's why I'm not going prebuilt10:46
hrwjohnx: or G43/G45 to have onboard graphics (microatx usually)10:47
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hrwmy q6600 (core2quad) has vt/sse3 and is few years old10:47
Flyser_I would recommend G43/45 too10:47
johnxthe Pentium E6300 is the dual core, right?10:47
hrwjohnx: yes10:47
Flyser_johnx: yes10:47
hrwjohnx: all 'Pentium' todays are dualcore10:47
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johnxcrashanddie, uhm, you have an interesting approach to budgeting ...10:48
Flyser_johnx: its like a core 2 duo, just slightly slower10:48
Flyser_but _much_ cheaper10:48
johnxyeah, saw that10:48
johnxstill thinking 4 cores might be nice10:48
keriojohnx: crashanddie's idea of budgeting is "spend more"10:48
hrwjohnx: core2quad can be more expensive - check for used q660010:48
johnxI'll price up an intel and an AMD10:48
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Flyser_I recently upgraded my Pentium E6300 to a Core 2 Duo E6500 and I didn't notice a huge difference to be honest10:49
hrwq6600 can be overclocked nicely (if someone needs)10:49
DocScrutinizer[[to all our listeners who joined in recently - we're still in double-u double-u #maemo I R C, on freenode 98.3. You missed the best of our daily OT discussion, this time the topic is "how many cores til core meltdown?", enjoy our program, and ... DON'T TUCH THAT DIAL! ]]10:49
crashanddieKhertan1: ping10:49
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Flyser_DocScrutinizer: LOL10:50
johnxDocScrutinizer, sorry for dragging us into off-topicness ... but I figured if twitter was the topic, this wasn't *much* worse O_o;10:50
crashanddieHey, I was just asking to be convinced by a bunch of twits10:50
crashanddiethey didn't respond to the call10:50
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: just takes one... in some time we'll see an n900 having a core meltdown10:51
crashanddieby the way, DocScrutinizer, interesting to see you press the off-topic alarm :D10:51
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DocScrutinizerjust up for a pun :-D10:51
DocScrutinizerno alarm intended10:51
Flyser_johnx: I think $350 should be okay, if you don't need a harddrive or case. At least here in europe. I don't know how expensive electronics is in the US these days.10:52
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johnxFlyser_, pretty reasonable it seems. I mean, if I don't feel like my 3000+ single-core is slow, I probably won't feel like pretty much any new CPU is slow10:53
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Flyser_I think a Pentium E6300 (just make sure you dont get a Core 2 Duo E6300, which is slower) should _easily_ beat your 3000+10:54
johnxyeah. the newer atoms are coming close these days. heh10:55
Flyser_probably more than double the speed10:55
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johnxthanks for the tips guys :) know what chipset to look for at least is a good start10:56
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scp1johnx, Thanks a lot for the help, finally it booted10:57
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johnxscp1, woo! too bad you couldn't recover though10:58
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johnxmight want to install bootmenu first thing10:58
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scp1johnx, doesnt matter really since I got it today :)10:58
scp1bootmenu hmm... like grub? ;o10:58
johnxkinda, but totally different in implementation10:58
johnxgrub is pre-kernel10:58
johnxbootmenu is post-kernel, pre-init10:59
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johnxbut just what you need to get a shell or start a telnet server on usb-ethernet10:59
crashanddielcuk: go down to arndale shopping center, there's a topman place with reasonably priced suits11:00
scp1johnx, ah. cool. installing that now... I dont know if I dare to try debian again :/11:00
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johnxscp1, well, once you have recovery options, it makes things a bit more sane11:01
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: still fails the updates -- error at
DocScrutinizerlibsdl is fsckdup lately, I heard11:03
DocScrutinizershouldn't turn out to be a showstopper though11:03
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mecejpinx-eeepc, wesnoth?11:04
jpinx-eeepcit gives "no updates available"11:04
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: you restored from backup?11:04
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: this is a newly flashed OS11:04
jpinx-eeepcnothing to backup11:04
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: "no updates available" is a rather sane thing then11:04
jpinx-eeepcno updates needed ?11:05
DocScrutinizerthere are no updates for core system11:05
jpinx-eeepcnot available tells me I can't connect11:05
jpinx-eeepcor it is failing11:05
DocScrutinizerjust go ahead install new apps as you like11:05
jpinx-eeepchmm - sudo wants a password - no idea what that is11:05
DocScrutinizernah, not available means there are none11:06
mecejpinx-eeepc, install rootsh11:06
meceand type root11:06
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: you might change the wording on that :)11:06
jpinx-eeepcmece: how can I install if I am not root ?11:06
mecejpinx-eeepc, app manager... or is that the problem?11:07
* jpinx-eeepc thought DocScrutinizer was omnipotent ;)11:07
DocScrutinizervia application managed, which btw is the recommended method almost all of the time11:07
jpinx-eeepcmece: going in circles here ;)11:07
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: maybe I am :-P but there are things I don't care, though even I could11:07
jpinx-eeepcok - back to appmngr to see if it'll do rootsh11:07
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nid0well impressed with nokia's take on live wallpaper in ovi tbh11:08
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: in app manager click "install", click "all" type rootsh on kbd11:09
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DocScrutinizernid0: I have other means to bring my system to a grinding halt :-P11:09
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nid0yeah except funnily, it doesnt do so. it skyrocket's cpu usage while actually having the desktop visible, but the device is still perfectly responsive11:10
johnxthankfully they remembered how to use nice(1)11:11
mecenid0, what is did they say about live wallpapaer on ovi?11:11
DocScrutinizerjohnx: except there's no nice(1) on maemo stock X-P11:11
nid0mece: ?11:11
mece" nid0: well impressed with nokia's take on live wallpaper in ovi tbh" <- what does that mean?11:12
nid0mece: sorry I might not have been clear, nokia have released an application called gas-balls to ovi which runs as a live wallpaper11:12
DocScrutinizerjohnx: messybox - what for do you need `nice` ??11:12
nid0not using the livewallpaper extras app11:12
mecenid0, ah I see.11:12
johnxDocScrutinizer, well the command is there, just no man pages :P11:12
kerioDocScrutinizer: hmm... like overclocking the cpu to 2ghz?11:12
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johnxreal linux geeks have already RTFM :P11:12
kerio(grinding halt)11:12
keriowell, it's less grinding and more blowing up11:12
keriobut it'll still stop pretty soon anyway11:13
DocScrutinizerin my box messybox doesn't know nice11:13
DocScrutinizerjust renice11:13
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mecejohnx, afaict linux geeks only say RTFM, nobody actually RTFM11:13
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johnxmece, or on slashdot where it's RTFA :)11:14
meceok well, I'm off. ta.11:14
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hrw~curse devs which do not share sources11:22
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, devs which do not share sources !11:22
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: damn, that was another life, err OS where messybox missed the nice11:25
johnxDocScrutinizer, thought so. maybe on the N8x0?11:25
DocScrutinizer~lart messybox and its annoying configurability11:26
* infobot hereby declares messybox and its annoying configurability a troll11:26
DocScrutinizerjohnx: might be OE11:26
DocScrutinizeraka OM11:26
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: funny enough some specialists invented a duct tape botch to do `nice` in a small shell script, using something along the lines >$@&; renice %111:29
jpinx-N900DocScrutinizer51: :)11:30
jpinx-N900but 8 can,t see my own nick :(11:30
jpinx-N900this is jpinx11:31
jpinx-N900on irssi on the N90011:31
johnxDocScrutinizer, strangely that's also the answer to "What does a shell programmer scream if you trip him while he's carrying coffee?"11:31
jpinx-N900but I can,t see my own nick :(11:31
DocScrutinizerjohnx: X-P11:32
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-N900: we see it - so that's fine ;-)11:33
DocScrutinizerjpinx-N900: honestly, no idea bout it but that's a irssi problem I bet11:33
* DocScrutinizer is using xchat, and quite happy with it11:34
jpinx-N900yea stupid colors11:34
jacekowskiirssi doesn't have problems11:34
DocScrutinizeras always11:34
JaffaMorning, all11:35
DocScrutinizer"if you want to avoid problems with yur computer, then don't sit in front of it, hell don't even switch it on"11:35
DocScrutinizermoo Jaffa11:36
Jaffacrashanddie: I can't convince you, I'm afraid11:36
crashanddieJaffa: just signed up11:36
crashanddieJaffa: do you use it?11:37
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villagerDocScrutinizer: similarly, if you want to avoid a crappy life, just commit suicide...11:37
DocScrutinizervillager: exactly11:38
johnx... and now presenting #maemo with simple answers to complex problems ...11:38
DocScrutinizerthat's meta pebkac. pebsag11:38
DocScrutinizerproblem exists between sky and ground11:38
johnxaaah, I parsed that as sub and gag11:39
johnxyour way makes more sense in context11:39
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KhertanMorning all !11:42
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villagerI'm sure there are some problems that exists above sky or below ground... maybe solar flares frying electronics (especially electronics in orbit)... or disturbances in the earth's magnetic field (which is generated below ground) and stuff...11:45
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DocScrutinizerI'm sure for every ticket marked PEBKAC there as well were concurrent unrelated problems anywhere else in this universe11:47
* johnx checks his BOFH calendar11:48
villagerperhaps, but do they have tickets too?11:48
johnxthe problem is caused by electrostatic discharge. wrap your head in aluminum foil11:48
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: ^^^11:50
jpinx-eeepcwhat did I miss?11:50
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: so jacekowski was right - irssi has no problems11:50
jpinx-eeepcit's got someissues, but possibly resolveable11:50
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: wrap your head in alu foil and problem of invisible nick is gone11:51
jpinx-eeepcdefault colours are pants11:51
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jpinx-eeepcand it real should be black background, not white11:51
Nils^hi people. n900 is stuck in an reboot loop after upgrading packages (I suspect "kernel power"). Only chance is reflashing?11:51
jpinx-eeepcand I will have to remember how to make it behave like this one - it's been a while since I messed with it11:52
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DocScrutinizerNils^: basically yes11:52
X-FadeNils^: Try flashing the kernel only?11:53
DocScrutinizeryou *might* succeed in flashing 'old' kernel only11:53
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DocScrutinizerbut then, you most probably got powerkernel compatible modules, and there's no powerkernel image to flash via flasher afaik11:54
DocScrutinizerand no way to replace modules by the stock ones, without reflashing whole rootfs11:54
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johnxdownload the powerkernel package, extract it, flash kernel image11:55
johnxor am I missing something?11:55
DocScrutinizererrm yup, I don't think the package contains a kernel in a format siutable for flasher11:56
DocScrutinizerbut I could be wrong on that11:56
Nils^I'll just flash the whole thing. I see no problem11:56
johnxwhat does "suitable for flasher" mean? it's just a kernel image...11:56
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DocScrutinizerno idea about format which flasher expects11:57
DocScrutinizermaybe it's plain 'binary' image, but I doubt that11:57
johnxStskeeps, very pretty. uhm, what *is* it?11:58
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: heh! nice background :-D where do I download that one?11:58
DocScrutinizerjohnx: looks like uBoot11:59
Stskeepsjohnx: we found out by accident nolo is able to load u-boot.bin11:59
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Nils^PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1 is correct?11:59
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Stskeepsjohnx: so ali1234's working on making a workable u-boot, had it working with qemu-n900 for instance and real n90011:59
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johnxDocScrutinizer, and I think that the N900's onboard flasher and flasher-3.5 can use the same kernel and initrd image, but maybe I'm confused11:59
johnxStskeeps, aaah, awesome. I totally forgot the N900 doesn't normally use u-boot12:00
DocScrutinizerjohnx: hmm, you might be right12:00
Stskeepsjohnx: best part is that n8x0 might be able to do it too :P12:00
Stskeepsand we've all been idiots for not discovering this earlier ;)12:00
johnxyou just have to tell flasher-3.5 that you're handing it a plain kernel image with -k12:00
johnxStskeeps, >_< (that's if the N8x0 could do that all along)12:00
Stskeepsjohnx: only way we discovered it was cos some guy tried to boot a samsung u-boot in the qemu-n90012:01
johnxha! that's awesome12:01
Stskeepscompletely wrong approach, but interesting result12:01
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DocScrutinizerboot chainloader - Nolo doesn't care if it's a kernel, uBoot or some arbitrary other nonsense it loads to RAM and executes12:02
johnxDocScrutinizer, the problem is, all us guys on the Mer project had kind of ... spotty ... backgrounds when it comes to embedded stuff12:02
DocScrutinizerone bootloader loading next bootloader is seen frequently on multiboot machines12:02
johnxit never really occurred to me at least12:03
johnxanyways, congrats Stskeeps12:03
johnxtime for sleep, here12:03
Stskeepsjohnx: heh, i think it was a benefit we didn't12:04
Stskeepswe didn't have the same corruption of the mind12:04
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kerioDocScrutinizer: on dualboot machines it's common to have a bootloader refer to the other12:05
kerioso you can constantly move between them12:05
kerioit's fun!12:05
Appiahwow , that's your idea of fun? :)12:05
keriowell, that and team fortress 212:06
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DocScrutinizerif grub doesn't know how to corretly boot up some weird OS, just let it load the weirdOS-bootloader instead12:06
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DocScrutinizeraccording to a friend of mine it *must* be fun12:10
jacekowskihmm, only fps i like was first unreal tournamend12:10
jacekowskiand hmm, mohaa12:10
jpinx-eeepcwill maemo take a virtual machine?12:10
jacekowskijpinx-eeepc: slowly12:10
DocScrutinizerdepends on your definition of VM12:11
jacekowskixen depends on x8612:11
jacekowskior amd6412:11
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jpinx-eeepcHmm - just an idle thought :)12:12
DocScrutinizer!.html though12:12
jpinx-eeepcthere's always some who does it...12:13
jacekowskihmm, qemu would be better12:13
jacekowskiqemu can do JUT12:13
Nils^strange. I cannot flash, the executable refuses to work. I'm on linux 64. I flashed the n900 once with exactly the same system, but I deinstalled all multilibs in between. Is the flasher a 32bit app?12:13
jacekowskiNils^: yes12:13
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infoboti guess flashing is
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jpinx-eeepcNils^: you need to force the arcchiteccture iirc12:14
Nils^jpinx-eeepc: I did not install it12:15
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Nils^does anyone know what the runtime deps for the flasher are?12:18
Nils^so I can install the 32bit variants again12:18
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Nils^yes, now...12:19
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Nils^ah, the nokia hands again. thanks all12:22
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keriomaemo5 annoyance - boot stops to ask for the pin12:36
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X-Fadekerio: Turn off your pin?12:39
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kerioX-Fade: NEIN12:39
X-FadeOr put your phone in flight mode before boot :)12:39
jacekowskinobody is interested in your sim12:40
keriogood point12:40
jacekowskiif somebody steals your phone they want a phone not a sim12:40
kerioi should lock the phone!12:40
Surfajacekowski, not quite true12:40
nid0jacekowski: not neccesarily12:40
keriojacekowski: well, i had a samsung phone that asked for a lock code if a particular sim wasn't inserted12:40
kerioand the sim required the pin12:40
Surfait's very common that people use stolen phones for calling service numbers to make profit12:40
nid0huge scam in london got busted recently where people were stealing contract sims to rack up international premium £10/minute calls12:41
jacekowskithing is that you don't have to pay for these12:41
jacekowskiif you report that your phone was stolen12:41
nid0id rather just have the sim locked and not have to worry about it in the first place tbh12:41
Surfanot quite true, the responsibility stops after you made the missing report12:41
Surfain certain countries12:42
jacekowskinot here12:42
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jacekowskiyou have to report it withing limited time12:42
nid0technically thats the case in the uk too, the networks are generally lenient on calls made beforehand too but for the sake of entering a pin once in a blue moon the hassle's not worth it12:42
Surfawell, here or there doesn't make it true everywhere :)12:43
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loufoquewhat's the address of the "Fremantle SDK free armel" repo?12:45
crashanddieloufoque: look here for a list of repos: http://repository.maemo.org12:45
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JaffaYay, I can definitely attend day #2 of Nokia World12:47
X-FadeJaffa: Nice ;)12:48
jacekowskii would go12:51
jacekowskibut not for £70012:51
loufoquewhat's the point?12:51
jacekowskiit's little bit to expensive12:51
JaffaFar too expensive IMHO12:51
loufoqueaccording to this page,
jacekowskidefcon costs $14012:51
loufoquethere is a gcc-4.2 package12:51
JaffaBut I've got an entrance ticket provided, and since I work in London, that's quite convenient.12:52
loufoquebut even with the sdk repo, I don't see it12:52
loufoqueI only see gcc-4.2-base12:52
jacekowskirecon under $35012:52
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Gh0sty700 pound for a round of marketing? :/12:55
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JaffaGh0sty: It was quite cool last year in Stuttgart when timsamoff and I went for the N900 launch12:57
X-FadeI wonder what there will be this time :)12:58
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JaffaX-Fade: stuff is targetting13:00
Jaffas/.*/I'm led to believe "not much"/13:00
* Jaffa was halfway through a sentence before realising he didn't know how much of what Ronan said was sensitive (albeit not confidential)13:01
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thomastpHi.  When I use select_iter on a HildonTouchSelector in MULTI mode, it removes the previous selection13:05
thomastphow can I set the selection to two or more items at the same time ?13:05
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DocScrutinizerPay 700GBP per day to watch Nokia pose?? Maybe if _they_ pay _me_ I'd do that13:10
jacekowskiit's £350 per day i think13:10
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: you could be the guy storming the stage saying "OPEN BME OR I KILL A KITTEN"13:11
DocScrutinizerthat costs extra13:11
pupnik_i can supply kittens13:11
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jacekowskii could try that13:13
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jacekowskijust wondering how hard it would be to get into that building without paying13:15
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: find a good agent negotiating your wages for that special appearance13:16
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jacekowskii would have to find a cat13:17
jacekowskibut that's not a problem13:17
DocScrutinizergrab an arbitrary Nokia dude, and dress him up with a kitten costume13:18
DocScrutinizerpreferably one of the managers13:18
DocScrutinizermuch better performance than with a ral kitten13:19
jacekowskinah, that would get me arrested for sure13:20
TomaszDman, the transistion from resistive to capacitive is painful :(13:20
jacekowskiusing real cat just may get me arrested13:20
TomaszDI can't hover my fingers close to the screen as they register as touch ;( god damn it13:21
jacekowskiTomaszD: ?13:21
jacekowskiTomaszD: i never had that problem13:21
TomaszDjacekowski, n900 -> desire13:21
jogayour aura's not wide enough13:21
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jacekowskii was using iphone13:21
jacekowskiand well, you had to touch the screen13:21
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jacekowski0.1mm above screen and it wouldn't work13:22
jogawhen I've tried the iphone it has seemed to have needed a pretty strong push to register13:22
TomaszDit does register 0.1mm13:22
TomaszDit's just too sensitivie for my liking, but I guess I'll get used to it13:22
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DocScrutinizermeh, c-ts. You asked for it, now live with it13:25
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splotMohammadAG51: you there?13:37
pupnik_The US Government and the patent cartel killed Commodore Amiga! Inside scoop here!
pupnik_the XOR patent!!!13:38
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kerio"start bme or the bunny gets it"13:40
splotcrashanddie: mind if I pm?13:40
crashanddiekerio: i didn't know you into zoophilia13:40
crashanddiesplot: go ahead13:41
crashanddieyou were*13:41
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Venemohey guys13:44
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VenemoI'm actually very surprised to see that there is a Maemo development course in my university13:45
PolarFox now this is marketing... wtg Nokia.. :)13:45
StskeepsPolarFox: are we supposed to look at the boobs or the phone?13:45
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PolarFoxStskeeps: it says Nokia on both of them... soo...13:46
Stskeepsit did?13:46
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pupnik_Venemo: someone should ring your university and tell them about meego then13:48
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Venemopupnik_: since MeeGo is not yet complete, that would be pointless13:50
Venemopupnik_: the title of the course is "Mobile Linux development", so I guess they will switch to MeeGo once it is out13:51
pupnik_heh ok cool13:52
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pupnik_one thing about gardening is humility before the weather13:53
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SpeedEvilOr openmoko based13:54
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SpeedEvilI know some unis did buy them13:54
VenemoSpeedEvil: the description clearly mentions Maemo and GTK13:56
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SpeedEvilVenemo: Just submit something gtk based and shiny to extras now, and you then can just party.13:57
VenemoSpeedEvil: haha :)13:57
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VenemoSpeedEvil: I'm not that familiar with Gtk, yet :)13:58
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VenemoSpeedEvil: although I like the idea14:29
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Pillumhey guys14:36
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PillumI deinstalled Crochik's MyContacs14:36
Pillumbut now my ringtone handling is corrupted14:36
Pillumsometimes a ringtone is played and sometimes not14:37
Pillumand if one is played it is mostly the nokia tune14:37
Pillumand not my own selected14:37
PillumI already searched on the mycontacts thread14:38
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Pillumbut there is nothing like this mentioned14:38
Pillumwhat do i do?14:38
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Pillumi got it maybe14:41
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VenemoPillum: ...14:46
Venemopatience is a virtue14:46
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bincedoes any od u guys develops apps for nokia N90015:23
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bincedoes any of u guys develops apps for nokia N90015:23
crashanddieIT guy just came running into the office15:24
SpeedEvilTRhere are a few app-developers here, yes.15:24
SpeedEvilI am developing a shell-script based one.15:24
crashanddie"anyone who has a UPS, please disconnect it immediately and bring it to the storage room, there's a fire risk"15:24
Stskeepscrashanddie: hehe15:25
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crashanddieFirst question "Fire risk, or explosion risk?" Answer: "Just bring it to the storage room"15:25
xnt14crashanddie: :P15:25
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ShadowJKAnd why is a UPS a fire/explosion risk?15:27
SpeedEvilShadowJK: batteries15:28
SpeedEvilShadowJK: overcharge of Lead-Acid batteries can cause explosions.15:28
SpeedEvilIn principle.15:28
SpeedEvilIf the UPS was bought as a lot, and they have a recall15:28
ShadowJKI was thinking more along the lines of gas leak ignited by spark from the relay15:28
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DocScrutinizeranyway sounds really ridiculous15:30
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ShadowJKThe recall sounds more likely15:31
ShadowJKa faulty float charger and there's a clear risk of fire or explosion15:31
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SpeedEvilUPS maker says 'recall, fire risk - you don't really have a choice in what to do as a company.15:32
SpeedEvilGenerally willfully setting fire to employees isn't covered by insurance.15:32
crashanddieSpeedEvil: exactly15:33
crashanddiequite frankly, I've stopped trying to fight the machine that feeds me15:33
crashanddieif some guy in IT asks something, just do it -- it's a lot easier to work when the people who actually control the systems like you15:34
DocScrutinizershouldn't you fetch the bomb squad then, rather than advising everybody to carry the explosive dangerous thing around ? :-P15:34
crashanddiethe guy was trained to replace power cables and ethernet switches, not account for explosives15:34
crashanddieit's a good thing he's actually acting, rather than liking his fingers while the phone rings15:35
nid0coffee > phone ringing15:35
infobotcrashanddie meant: it's a good thing he's actually acting, rather than licking his fingers while the phone rings15:35
DocScrutinizeralso seems a quite brilliant idea to heap up all those dangerous devices in one closed room X-P15:37
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nid0"dangerous devices" probably = one smoked a little bit somewhere, once, while plugged in15:38
jhbHi *, is there a way to a) enable fulltext/content search on files b) indexing of sms/texts, email, contacts on my new shiny n900? (I played around a bit with tracker.cfg, but no sucess)15:39
crashanddiethere's a python app that allows fulltext search on sms/texts (all conversations)15:39
crashanddiebut I didn't release it yet, I'm not liking what I did with the UI15:39
DocScrutinizereven then I'd answer GTFO when some IT dude asks me to carry that thing around, while not explaining exactly what might happen during I'm doing that. I'd leave the room and shout at him "do it yourself, dude!"15:40
crashanddiethe search algorithms work fine though15:40
lcuktheres another one too that was released afaik15:40
jhbcrashanddie: could I get a copy - I know python, would maybe teach me a lot?15:40
lcukcrashanddie, i sent you a link about it15:40
crashanddielcuk: yeah, can't remember it though15:40
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crashanddiejhb: here's another project that does the same15:41
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jhbany hope of integrating everything into tracker / device wide search?15:42
lcukzdra and barisione really know their contacts stuff!15:42
jhbcrashanddie, lcuk thanks a lot!15:42
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barisionejhb: not the contacts15:45
barisioneeven if you did then there would not be a UI to access all the search results15:45
jhbcrashanddie: scout seems to work great15:45
lcukbarisione, I believe thats the sort of thing crashanddie was wanting to look at15:45
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lcuki think we should get a test build out of him15:46
jhbbarisione: can't the address book the told to open with a specific contact?15:46
crashanddiejhb: yeah, I'm currently working on using the conversations UI to display the texts and stuff15:46
KhertaneE:600:KhweeteurPref.request_twitter_access_or_clear: No name 'parse_qsl' in module 'urlparse' as it s in a try/except pylint should not consider this as an error15:46
crashanddiewell, have been working for what, a couple of months15:46
jhbbarisione: or where is the problem (just trying to get my head around it)15:46
Khertanoups ... sorry wrong windows15:46
crashanddieit's just somewhere on a hard drive, and I haven't had time nor motivation15:46
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lcukalbanc and Khertan you are french, can you both try to convince crashanddie that he should release it!15:46
jhbcrashanddie: I would _love_ to have a look at it, pretty please, cherry on top? :-)15:47
barisionejhb: yeah, it canm but you still need the ui bit build by somebody. that was my only point :)15:47
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crashanddiejhb: don't have it here at work, and I really didn't do much more than trying to figure out the lack of documentation around the API for the UI15:48
jhbbarisione, would be interesting for me to learn how things work15:48
crashanddiejhb: so at the moment, I managed to make a window popup, and then it randomly segfaults or displays empty15:48
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Khertannope sorry ... didn't have time to convince crashanddie did you know that french are stubborn15:49
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jhbcrashanddie: I have done a bit of python on the e71/pys60, and am now trying to switch to something more powerfull - and I try to find my way around the APIs - so basically going the same path...15:49
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Khertancrashanddie, but if you want help send it to me ... i ll take a look tomorrow at the ui15:50
lcukKhertan, I know this, its why I asked other French people!15:50
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Khertanlcuk, yep but i decide to not do it ... so now more luck lcuk :)15:50
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TiagoTiagojust a quick question, what is the path to where picture taken with the default camera prog are stored?16:08
DocScrutinizeror /media/card/DCIM16:08
TiagoTiagooh, i see, thanx16:09
lcukor if you have a memory card, I think its something like /media/mmc1/DCIM16:09
lcukyes DocScrutinizer :P16:09
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TiagoTiagowhy isn't it named "camera" like hw it shows in the camera prog?16:10
lcukTiagoTiago, that is translated title16:10
lcukDCIM is more "normal" for digital cameras16:10
lcukso plugging it into USB allows it to interact better with desktop apps16:11
DocScrutinizeryeah, and translating it is done to keep users puzzled, confused, and stupid16:11
lcukusers are not stupid.16:11
DocScrutinizerNokia seems to differ on that16:12
lcukusers have a skillset that is not geared around ASCII16:12
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DocScrutinizerthey think users are16:12
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TiagoTiagoi've only seen cameras that show up as a knockoff Windows Explorer thing, kinda like a disk drive under my co16:13
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TiagoTiagobackspace is too close to enter16:14
lcukTiagoTiago, heh i do that with laptop also16:15
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TiagoTiagounder My Computer, except that if you open it it doesn't have a drive letter and it doesn't look nor behave quite like a regular folder/drive , somtimes hthe folder icons are different, you can't drag stuff proprerlly, somtimes it's weird like miniatures mode without space for filename etc16:16
DocScrutinizerhmm, the real distance between CT and BS isn't so much different on laptop than what it is on N900. ~0 in both cases16:16
kwtmHi.  Can someone give me pointers on how to tinker with my N900 "desktop"environment (is it called "dashboard")? E.g. in what directory do I find the icons (like email, contacts, etc.) that show up on my desktop?  I'm trying to Google but am not getting the right keywoards.16:17
TiagoTiagoyou mean the app menu?16:17
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lcukkwtm, if you want to change the theme, investigate and install a few pre made themes, they often come with icons16:17
TiagoTiagoI think the dashboard is when you see the miniatures of the programs running16:17
lcukthen use one of those to modify16:17
lcukdashboard is the running app list16:18
TiagoTiagothere are the home screens, the app menu, and the dashboard, or am i wrong?16:18
TiagoTiagokinda like with windows you got the desktop, the Start menu and the taskbar, respetivelly16:19
DocScrutinizerthere's appstarter and there's taskswitcher?16:19
TiagoTiagobtw, is there an alt-tab in Maemo?16:20
lcukdefault system, ctrl-backspace will take you to the dashboard16:20
kwtmlcuk: Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm looking more for: "I modified an app (e.g. FreeCell4Python) and now I want to change the icon which runs the original app to run my new modified app in my own directory."  Presumably the "icon/shortcut" is actually a text file in ~/.hildon-desktop/ or something, which I can edit on my own?16:20
TiagoTiagolike, to switch btween progs without having to first go to the dashboard and then selecting the prog you want16:21
kwtmOkay, so the desktop is called ... desktop?  Palmtop?  Screentop?16:21
pupnik_i would like cell phones that can call each other directly16:21
lcukkwtm, right - all applications have a .desktop file which indicates which icon to use16:21
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SpeedEvilpupnik_: sip over ad-hoc wifi16:21
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: ^^^ there's *real* alt-tab function16:22
TiagoTiagothere is probably some way over bluetooth too16:22
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pupnik_nice one DocScrutinizer16:22
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TiagoTiagoif i map alt and tab to the physical keyboard and press them it works?16:22
MNZkwtm, /usr/share/applications/hildon/ look for the application's .desktop file there, and change the Exec= line16:23
kwtmMNZ: Ah, there's the info I'm looking for.  Will check that directory.16:23
TiagoTiagoI remember reading about this prog for Symbian called btWalkieTalkie or somthing16:23
pupnik_ahh well the cellphone recievers are probably not good enough to pick up other cellphone xmits over distance16:23
pupnik_i was hoping to be able to call home from the supermarket directly TiagoTiago16:24
SpeedEvilpupnik_: trhey are absolutely fine.16:24
SpeedEvilpupnik_: The problem with that is the cellphone is a third of an invention.16:24
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: (cellphones call each other) that's completely unfeasible16:24
lcukkwtm, if you are changing a specific package, you should be looking for the .desktop file within that package16:24
SpeedEvilpupnik_: The other two thirds are the towers, and the scheduling and network design.16:24
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TiagoTiagoit would be interesting if cell phones formed a secure annonymizing mesh network, only resorting to the cell towers when there are no smaller devices in range that can raeach the destination16:25
SpeedEvilpupnik_: So that you do not interfere with other phones or the tower when a distant phone is due to transmit.16:25
pupnik_right SpeedEvil ok nm16:25
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kwtmlcuk: I'm actually looking at creating new programs (e.g. a new icon to launch my shell/python script) but was going to play with modifying a package to start out.16:25
kwtmMNZ: I see all the .desktop files.  In what system file do I find/modify how they appear on my desktop?  E.g. now I want to make a new ".desktop" icon appear on my desktop. or delete it.16:26
TiagoTiagodo you know of a program that based on the current GPS coordinates will search a database of nearby open wifi hotspots as well as cracked passwords for non-open hotspots?16:27
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TiagoTiagofor nearby*16:27
lcukkwtm, ".desktop" files link together the display name, the icon and the command to run it16:27
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MNZkwtm, AIUI you create a .desktop file in there then go to the desktop and 'Add Shortcut'16:28
lcukTiagoTiago, no password cracking on default system, gtfo out and stop asking here16:28
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pupnik_" I find this book to be one of the best available monograph introductions to the field of quantum cryptography"
DocScrutinizerkwtm: you don't want to care about that. just create a new xyz.desktop and have the correct exec= and icon= lines in it, and place it to the folder MNZ told16:29
TiagoTiagolol, alright16:29
kwtmMNZ, DocScrutinizer: I see ... so that folder contains all possible *.desktop files, and we let Hildon manage whether it shows up on the desktop or not.  Then next question is: where do I find the icon files (presumably *.png files) themselves?  The *.desktop files give no pathname, sp presumably there is a default directory.  How do I draw my own icon and have it show up on the desktop?16:31
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DocScrutinizerI *think* they are somewhere in /usr/share/icons16:32
nid0icons are in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/hildon16:32
nid0assuming you want a 64x6x square icon16:33
lcukkwtm, widgets live in a different part but normal stance for app shortcuts (which is what you want) is to let the user decide whether to place them on his desktop16:33
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lcuk(or her!)16:33
TiagoTiagolol, if you open a hidden image with the builtin image viewr it complains about the format but shows the image anyway16:33
DocScrutinizerwtf is a hidden image?16:34
TiagoTiagothe file storing the imageis hidden16:34
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DocScrutinizererr like in .IAmHidden ?16:35
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DocScrutinizerwhy should this be any difference when opening it?16:35
X-FadeHehe, now that must be the longest version number I've ever seen in Maemo: pinentry 0.9.0+20100830.cd29b6eb8b6db1ef3980128efda91432061c1264-0maemo116:35
kwtmlcuk: Noted.  Will let user decide whether to place them on his/her desktop.16:36
TiagoTiagohidden images don't show in the gallery, unless you open them directly, and then it's only untill you close the gallery prog16:36
lcukTiagoTiago, to be fair, its not a normal case to handle16:37
nid0whats the problem with that? hidden files are only there for convenience to not show stuff you dont regularly need to see16:37
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DocScrutinizermhm, this indicates tracker is obeying the semantics of leading dot in filenames. The files themselves though are completely normal16:37
lcukhell, if you try to name a Windows file ".something.png" it will shout at you and tell you "You must type a file name"16:37
kwtmlcuk: I've copied a ".desktop" file to a new version, modified it, and will try adding it to my desktop (via the GUI).  In what directory should I put an icon of my own creation so it will become the icon of my new modified app, and show up when I put it on my desktop?16:37
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nid0kwtm: as above, /usr/share/icos/hicolor/XXxXX/hildon, where XXxXX is the size you want16:39
DocScrutinizerkwtm: read scrollback, that question had been answered16:39
DocScrutinizerI even still have it on my screen here16:40
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kwtmnid0, DocScrutinizer: You are right; I had missed those lines (thought it was part of what TiagoTiago was asking).  Thanks for  clarifying.16:40
kwtmMy hotel wifi connection is such that text comes out in bursts (e.g. every minute,m a burst of text shows up)16:41
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DocScrutinizereew, know that16:41
kwtmnid0: And the icons on the desktop are by default the 64x64 version, I take it?16:42
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nid064x64 is the standard size for links/contacts yea16:42
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TiagoTiagoam i not suposed to be able to create a symlink to a folder in the same pareent folder?16:45
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nid0you should be able to fine16:46
TiagoTiagodoes it matter the the symlink has the same name except the target is hidden (has period in the beginning) ?16:47
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kwtmTiagoTiago: Remember to make sure you're not in/under the MyDocs directory or somewhere else where it's VFAT.16:47
TiagoTiagoyep that is the issue :(16:47
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kwtmMaking the MyDocs VFAT may make the N900 more compatible with Windows systems, but it sucks not to be able to take advantage of the Linux filesystem features like permissions and symlinks.16:49
kwtmI can't even properly symlink to "~/MyDocs/.documents" from my home directory because of shell problems, and that directory name is a bummer to type out in full each time.16:49
pupnik_yeah what u gonna do16:50
TiagoTiagoI wonder if it would be too slow to have the N900 emulate a VFAT drive while connected via USB while keeping the actual file system using a better format16:50
pupnik_why not store linux/ext2 metadata in a file on the vfat partition16:50
kwtmI tried doing "ln -s /home/user/MyDocs/.documents /home/user/docs", but when I do "cd docs" from home directory, the prompt shows "~/MyDocs/.documents" (even though I'm "really" in ~/docs).16:50
pupnik_it might get out of sync of course16:50
pupnik_but you'd try to update it intelligently16:50
kwtmIf I then do "cd ..", I jump from "~/MyDocs/.documents" to "~" (even though I only asked to go up one directory level) because I'm actually in "~/docs", not "~/MyDocs/.documents".16:51
kwtmI think the solution to all my problems (including that nasty one where the N900 becomes useless until reflashed) is to use Bash instead.  I hope there's a package for Bash for N900.16:52
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TiagoTiagoi think i saw somthing like "bash3 for Maemo" or somthing in the repos, never got the guts to install it16:53
lcukkwtm, if its just for you, you could resize the partitions and connect using ssh to your linux system..16:54
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: there is a proper bash package16:55
DocScrutinizerkwtm: apt-get install bash16:55
kwtmlcuk: ? Not sure what you mean.  I think you mean: don't use the MyDocs filesystem and just use the one mounted on root.  Agree, but will try to leave that option for later resort and, for now, try to use the system as is.  It's not that big of a problem.16:55
TiagoTiagois there anything i should know before installing that?16:55
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Thanks for the info!16:56
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lcukDocScrutinizer, doesnt bash conflict and stuff, or is that only if you change the default, or has that been fixed now?16:56
DocScrutinizeraiui it's only when you change user default shell16:57
DocScrutinizerkwtm: nevertheless you probably also want apt-get install coreutils-gnu less findutils...16:57
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DocScrutinizerthen add /usr/bin/gnu to your path16:58
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: Ahh, I didn't know less was in a different package.  I already installed coreutils-gnu.16:58
kwtmDocScrutinizer: I have /usr/bin/gnu in my path, but only at the end.  There was some conflict with how one of them behaved compared to the default package.16:59
DocScrutinizerkwtm: a special candy: apt-get install mandb-n90016:59
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DocScrutinizerwhat conflict?17:00
jacekowski15:59 < ball> Someone should build a lifesize "Farmville Experience"...they could even put live animals, crops etc. on it!17:00
TiagoTiago" Couldn't find package mandb-n900" :/17:00
jacekowski15:59 < ball> ...oh hang on, that's a farm.17:00
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jcrawforddoes the N900 have WRT on it?17:07
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jcrawfordweb runtime17:09
jcrawfordjs/css apps17:09
jcrawfordrather than coding an app in say C17:10
crashanddiejacekowski: that joke must be as old as real tv17:10
Flyserjcrawford: I don't think so17:10
Flyserjcrawford: is that what webOS is using?17:11
jacekowskiwebos has normal apps17:11
jacekowskijcrawford: n900 browser has js and css and flash17:12
Flyserjacekowski: WebOS apps are written in javascript and html. at least most of them17:12
TiagoTiagojs but no java17:12
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FlyserTiagoTiago: who cares about java? is anyone still using that for web development?17:12
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* fdsfsd PRO.REVENGE.LV:27015 cs 1.6 JOIN JOIN!!!17:13
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TiagoTiagothere are some stuff i use on mhy Windows machine i can't with the N900, i mean some sites got stuff that doesn't work without java17:14
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FlyserI've disabled java on my desktop machine since years and never came across a site that didn't work because of that17:15
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jogaFlyser: some banks use java on their sites17:16
tank-mani came across a pdf form I had to have java before I could access that pdf. was a form for the canadian gov.17:16
FlyserI don't trust online banking17:17
joga(for example, a major bank in finland (owned by the danish) does17:17
nid0sadly I need java for work sometimes, our vps platform's integrated management console uses it17:17
nid0on that note, so do a lot of kvm-ip systems17:18
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jacekowskijoga: i'm happy user of a bank that works even on links17:22
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jacekowskijoga: or any other text browser with basic plain html support17:22
jogajacekowski, well, they do have their backup connection that probably does too :)17:22
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jogathe java thing is a bit uses the native interface and for example creates some directory in your $HOME17:24
jogaI switched banks when they rolled out their new online banking solution :)17:24
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jacekowskiwell, my bank did the same not so long ago17:24
jacekowskistill html and css and stuff17:24
jacekowskibut they added some ajax stuff17:25
jacekowskibut it's still working fine on links17:25
jogathat's nice17:25
joga(I prefer elinks though)17:25
DocScrutinizerkwtm: you might want to look at
kWHello! Does anybody know how to tell the N900 to export the _internal flash_ partition as USB mass storage device to the USB host even if an external flash partition (microSDHC) is available?17:27
jacekowskiit exports both17:28
nid0unless im misunderstanding you, by just selecting mass storage mode.17:28
nid0it makes both available17:28
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kWwell, you are actually right... it just did not work at the first attempt...17:30
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TiagoTiagoanyway, thx for all, cya17:37
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MNZPBeck, hello and welcome to the #maemo helpdesk! Please state your question/problem and stand by for a response.17:49
PBeckuh a new bot? :>17:49
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MohammadAGPBeck, human based17:49
MNZthank you, please stand by.17:49
PBeckhow can i find out which dependancy my python application has?17:50
jcrawfordFlyser, yes that is what WebOS uses and many other Nokia devices17:50
kerioPBeck: run it :<17:50
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PBeckMohammadAG: nice thank you :)17:50
kerioMNZ: is there a god?17:50
kerioMNZ: is there a meaning of life?17:50
MohammadAGkerio, fu, the bot was working properly17:50
kerioMNZ: does P=NP?17:50
DocScrutinizerlo PBeck MohammadAG17:51
kerio(the last one tests the internet capabilities of the bot)17:51
MNZkerio, my infinite processing powers have come to a conclusion.17:51
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PBeckhi DocScrutinizer17:51
keriothat's not the meaning of life17:51
Flyserjcrawford: I don't think the maemo supports it, but I might be wrong17:51
MNZkerio, I assure you, you are mistaken.17:51
PBeckkerio: thats not the best solution i have hoped i can see it anywhere =>
keriothat's the answer to the question about life, the universe and everything17:51
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kerioPBeck: you need pyqy17:52
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kerioMNZ: what's the question?17:52
MohammadAGcan anyone help with the conversion of 5 lines of Python to native C?17:52
kerioMohammadAG: why would you do that :'(17:52
MNZkerio, it seems that you are very confused. I will help you. I have just sent 2 terminators back in time to 'help' you. Please stand by.17:52
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MohammadAGCause pulling in python for a damn small script is retarded17:52
SpeedEvilscript where?17:53
MohammadAGplus C requires less memory :P17:53
lcukMohammadAG, just paste it :P17:53
* lcuk dares you17:53
PBeckfrom this paste => i think i need the following => python2.5, python2.5-qt4-common, python2.5-qt4-core, python2.5-qt4.gui17:53
* MohammadAG will not disappoint his followers17:53
MohammadAGimport dbus17:53
MohammadAGbus = dbus.SessionBus()17:53
MohammadAGproxy = bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Notifications', '/org/freedesktop/Notifications')17:53
MohammadAGinterface = dbus.Interface(proxy,dbus_interface='org.freedesktop.Notifications')17:53
MohammadAGinterface.Notify('Notification', 0, 'app_install_error', 'Main title', 'Small description', [], {}, 10000)17:53
MohammadAGlcuk, go back to coding :P17:53
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lcuki am talking actually17:54
MohammadAGstop talking and start coding! :P17:54
SpeedEvilThat's not 5 lines of python17:54
SpeedEvilthat's several hundred17:54
SpeedEvilyou can't count import as one line17:54
MohammadAGinport translates to include :P17:55
SpeedEvilWell - yes.17:55
SpeedEvilBut still.17:55
SpeedEvil#include "dbus.h"17:55
SpeedEvilvoid main(){go()};17:55
SpeedEvil2 lines.17:55
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MNZheh, even two lines and you make a syntax error :P17:56
MNZvoid main(){go();}17:56
SpeedEvilI'm tired.17:56
jhbisn't pynotify available as well?17:56
SpeedEvilI have been refabricating my greenhouse doors.17:56
MNZSpeedEvil, hasn't it been 3 days already with this whole thing you are doing to your house?17:57
SpeedEvilumm - what?17:57
SpeedEvilIt's been 2 years.17:57
SpeedEvilOn and off.17:57
MNZWell I was talking about the fish tank leakage specifically, but looks like that's unrelated17:58
SpeedEvilyes  - I have limited energy - and there is way too much shit in here.17:58
SpeedEvilSo moving it around is not one days job17:58
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: seems you muted MohammadAG with your adaption of shortest C program contest winner of all times17:59
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MohammadAGMNZ, you're not new here?18:00
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, router died :P18:00
MohammadAGStatic IPs FTW18:00
MNZMohammadAG, been about a week or so here18:00
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MNZOn other unrelated but more on-topic news: I give up.18:01
MNZ(re: audio codec)18:01
lizardoMohammadAG: maybe some has mentioned this... have you tried calling dbus-send ?18:01
MohammadAGnot a dbus expert, any ideas how?18:02
DocScrutinizerdbus-send --help would be a good start18:02
MNZThere's a de-emphasis filter separate from the effects filter, it's much simpler and with the default coefficients acts as a low-pass filter. This can be "easily" programmed to work as a high pass filter for speaker protection, thus not needing PA equalizer18:02
DocScrutinizerMNZ: yup, I know18:03
MNZOnly thing is, even this 'simple' filter, I cannot grok. Never mind the full blown IIR effects filter.18:03
KhertanMohammadAG, what are you trying to do ?18:03
MohammadAGshow that dialog without pulling in python18:04
DocScrutinizeryeah, that's advanced master level of math18:04
MNZso unless someone can give me the magic numbers for using the deemphasis filter as a high pass, then that's that....18:04
DocScrutinizerMNZ: bring it to the point where you write random nonsense to the relevant registers, and then test it does *anything* ?18:05
MNZDocScrutinizer, I already tried the filter, with the default coeffs18:05
DocScrutinizerso we could very easily pick up whenever we find a math wizard18:05
MNZIt does what they say it does, low pass filter.18:05
DocScrutinizerMNZ: so start a project, document what you got so far, and ask for help from others savvy in IIR math voodoo18:06
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MNZright now it's just a switch to turn on/off, for testing. I was going to then make it turn on automatically for speaker output and turn off for headphones.18:06
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MNZDocScrutinizer, tmo is good place for this?18:07
DocScrutinizerMNZ: you should go public with that18:07
DocScrutinizergarage is a good place for this18:07
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DocScrutinizerregister an account on (if not yet done), then go thru the "paperwork" to register a project18:09
DocScrutinizerit's less painful than it might sound18:09
MNZbtw, there's mafw-gst-eq-renderer, so once the math part is done I think I would just need to contact the writer of that to hook it up to the new alsa controls18:09
MNZ(talking about the EQ)18:09
DocScrutinizeryup, nice :-D18:10
MNZDocScrutinizer, yeah I'm registered already, will start a project I guess18:10
X-FadeMNZ: And the author of mafw-gst-eq-renderer will probably be quite interested, as he is quite active.18:10
pogcan somebody quickly explain what is r&D mode? Is there a starttutorial, so I can quickly gain an overview, over the possibilty of the N900. Particularly to use as a Linuxmachine.18:10
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MNZX-Fade, I hope that's for real and you didn't actually forget the sarcasm tag :D18:11
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X-Fadepog: you don't need it.18:11
X-FadeMNZ: No, not kidding this time.18:11
DocScrutinizerprozzerg: N900 *is* a linux machine18:11
pogI saw that gainroot allows root access, which seems enough to me.18:11
X-Fadepog: install rootsh18:12
DocScrutinizerpog: ^^^18:12
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poganyway, it would be nice, to now e bit more about the machine und it's theoretical possiblityes, but rootaccess ist o.k. for now.18:12
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julian__can someone tell me how to delete all sd card partitions with n90018:15
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DocScrutinizerjulian__: on uSD?18:15
xnt14Khertan: if I install khweeteur from source with a certain option will it remove the debug trace?18:16
DocScrutinizermicroSD card18:17
DocScrutinizerdd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=1k count=118:17
julian__let me give that a try18:18
DocScrutinizerthat's deleting the partition table, but not the data on the card which still could be recovered18:18
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lardmanafternoon all18:19
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julian__ok. i just want to get rid of everything18:19
Khertanxnt14, nope18:19
DocScrutinizerjulian__: then open and close battery cover - to remount the device18:19
xnt14Khertan: damn...18:19
DocScrutinizerooh, get definitely rid so nobody can recover? I.E. wipe?18:20
xnt14Khertan: khweeteur is too slow, most likely because I have a massive timeline... perhaps optimize the timeline display?18:20
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DocScrutinizerjulian__: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=1M count=<size of card in megbyte>18:21
SpeedEvilFor get rid so nobody can ever read - snap it in half18:21
DocScrutinizerjulian__: will wipe whole data on card completely. This is not necessary unless you have privacy issues with that data18:21
tobis87Hi! What does pwr_key stand for in /proc/bootreason?18:22
julian__i got 1+0 in and out18:22
SpeedEvilpower key18:22
SpeedEvilI would guess18:22
lardmananyone tried installing the latest SDK on 64bit Ubuntu?18:22
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tobis87ok, this is correct, i thought it could also give info about irq or dma problems...18:23
tobis87i issued the command: modprobe omap-aes; modprobe dm-crypt; cryptsetup -c aes-cbc-essiv:rmd128 -s128 -d /dev/urandom create swap /dev/mmcblk0p3; mkswap /dev/mapper/swap; modprobe ramzswap memlimit_kb=32768 backing_swap=/dev/mapper/swap && sleep 1; swapon -a (with /dev/ramzswap0 in fstab)18:23
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tobis87it worked, but the screen didn't want to wake up, after it went into powersaving18:24
tobis87i will test it again without acceleration, but i'm now to scared to put that into rcS-late18:25
MNZsuggestions on a 'unixname' for the kernel audio codec driver patch?18:25
Khertanxnt14, what you mean by a massive timeline ?18:25
Khertanxnt14, did you try with 0.0.20 ?18:26
xnt14Khertan: hmm18:26
xnt14I'll update now18:26
DocScrutinizerMNZ: AIC34-EQ18:26
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: or s/AIC34/<whatever_the_name_of_codec>/18:27
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MNZyeah it's aic34. I was going with a descriptive full name of 'Audio Codec Kernel Driver Patch' though. Too much?18:28
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DocScrutinizernot sure about that, I think a description comes later18:29
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DocScrutinizerthere's pretty good help texts to each of the project var fields18:29
Khertanxnt14, :)18:29
MNZYes: You should start with specifying the name of your project. The "Full Name" is descriptive, and has no arbitrary restrictions (except a 40 character limit).18:29
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DocScrutinizerincl suggestions on min/max char18:30
DocScrutinizerfull name isn't unix name though?18:30
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MNZno, different things. Full name is more descriptive and with no restrictions18:31
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MNZmeh, it doesn't matter, just going with AIC34 Hardware EQ18:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, as engineer, shouldn't all CPUs have a damn temperature sensor?18:32
MohammadAGimma sue HP18:32
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: for CPUs that *need* active cooling they for sure should have some way to tell system "please more fan"18:35
pogI guess, bevor installing rootsh, I try to install an ssh-deamon.18:35
DocScrutinizerif the CPU is designed for passive cooling, and has autothrottle to avoid overheating, then a temp sensor isn't mandatory (though nice to have)18:36
MohammadAGI doubt a laptop has passive cooling18:37
xnt14Khertan: it works better :)18:37
MohammadAGsince the fans are actually controlled18:37
Khertanxnt14,  :)18:37
DocScrutinizerusualy not :-D18:37
Khertanxnt14, i'm happy to heard that !18:37
MohammadAGbut there's nothing in sysfs that shows temp18:37
DocScrutinizerthen that's a fault of kernel maybe18:37
xnt14Khertan: :)18:37
xnt14MohammadAG: hmm, usually, the bios controls the fans, unless the manufacturer was evil and left it to a proprietay windows software...18:38
pogi still have problems to scale the screen, altough there is a yourube-video how to do...18:38
* DocScrutinizer slaps MohammadAG around with I2Ctools/sensors package18:38
xnt14MohammadAG: on HPs, the bios controls them18:38
xnt14DocScrutinizer: lm-sensors?18:38
MohammadAGrestarting wifi18:39
MohammadAGor not, nvm18:39
DocScrutinizerxnt14: yeah lm-sensors18:39
MohammadAGlm-sensors is already the newest version.18:40
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xnt14DocScrutinizer: another question: on my XPS 600, if I up the fan speed a tiny bit, the CPU fans go upto crazy RPMs, it sounds like a damn jet engine. I'm using i8kutils. why does this happen?18:40
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DocScrutinizerIt doesn't help to keep the thing in your pocket, you have to *use* it :-P18:41
xnt14The RPM keeps on increasing, It never stops, I was afraid it would burn, so it put it back to normal18:41
xnt14its a giant desktop18:41
MohammadAGdo what I did on a loud desktop once18:41
julian__DocScrutinizer: Now the memory card is recognized but unsupported format18:41
MohammadAGaccidentally pull the fan cable18:41
tobis87MohammadAG: run sensors-detect, you might want to load some sensor modules on boot.18:42
DocScrutinizerjulian__: wasn't that what you wanted?18:42
xnt14MohammadAG: um, if I do that on my XPS it starts beeping.. :P18:42
DocScrutinizerjulian__: now go to hildon file manager and select "format card"18:42
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MohammadAGSorry, no sensors were detected.18:43
MohammadAGThis is relatively common on laptops, where thermal management is18:43
MohammadAGhandled by ACPI rather than the OS.18:43
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tobis87MohammadAG: which cpu do you have?18:43
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xnt14tobis87: core i518:43
MohammadAGthat ^18:43
xnt14ah, :P18:43
DocScrutinizerxnt14: no idea. There might be several reasons for such behaviour18:43
xnt14DocScrutinizer: k18:43
DocScrutinizerxnt14: without additional info / data I can't tell anything18:44
tobis87For core duo and core quad, loading coretemp was required18:44
tobis87the module coretemp18:44
DocScrutinizerIt doesn't help to keep the thing in your pocket, you have to *use* it :-P18:44
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ^^^ :-P18:44
tobis87might work as well on core i518:44
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xnt14tobis87: how about a pentium d?18:45
xnt14DocScrutinizer: any command that I can pastebin?18:45
MohammadAGFATAL: Error inserting coretemp (/lib/modules/2.6.32-24-generic/kernel/drivers/hwmon/coretemp.ko): No such device18:45
tobis87xnt14: mom, i18:46
xnt14tobis87: ?18:46
tobis87answer a call18:46
Flyserkernel is too old?18:46
xnt14tobis87: ah, k18:46
DocScrutinizerxnt14: just observe cpu temp ( hehe :-D ), if it goes down while fans spin up, it's a bios bug. If it rises then it's a mech airflow issue18:47
xnt14DocScrutinizer: ok18:47
xnt14hmm, lately, cpu temp stays at -22 C...18:47
DocScrutinizereer, are you at sibiria?18:47
xnt14DocScrutinizer: iunno, the CPU exaust feels like an AC...18:48
xnt14apparently, thats the reading from i8k18:48
DocScrutinizerI suspect you got yourself a monster with nitrogen cooling -you evil overclocker :-P18:49
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xnt14DocScrutinizer: lol, no :P18:49
xnt14its not even overclocked18:49
xnt142.80Ghz stock18:49
MohammadAG#ubuntu is such a retarded channel :P18:49
DocScrutinizerwell buntkuh means colored cow18:50
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DocScrutinizerso what do you expect on a chan where colored cows meet18:51
pogwhen I enter internet, there are 5 tabs visible. I'm wondring wether these tabs are "open tabs" or the last used. I'm wondring where I finde at "Beginners Tutorial" just for basic use.18:51
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tobis87MohammadAG: Maybe this helps,
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DocScrutinizerpog: eh? talking about connections on N900?18:52
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I didn't know ubuntu was indian :P18:54
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julian__DocScrutinizer: the file manager isnt formatting the card. anything else I can try?18:57
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tobis87xnt14: there is not much support for lga775 as it seems:
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DocScrutinizerjulian__: install cfdisk and use it, or try to find a manpage for sfdisk which is installed on the device, and use it. Or simply partition&format it on your desktop PC, whatever that may be19:00
julian__im going to try gparted19:01
DocScrutinizersounds good, yep19:01
DocScrutinizercreate one large VFAT partiton, as that's probably what you want19:02
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xnt14tobis87: ah... hmm19:03
xnt14tobis87: I already have CPU temp from i8k but it doesn't look like its accurate19:03
xnt14-22 C / -8 F19:04
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tobis87xnt14: what is the driver called? you might want to search with the driver name here:
tobis87for updates19:05
xnt14tobis87: k19:06
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hrwxnt14: dell laptop?19:10
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xnt14hrw: dell desktop19:11
* lardman is not fond of the Ubuntu installer19:11
hrwlardman: use alternative one19:12
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hrwxnt14: sudo sensors-detect then19:12
lardmanhi hrw19:13
tobis87hrw: (18:03:57) xnt14: tobis87: I already have CPU temp from i8k but it doesn't look like its accurate (18:04:01) xnt14: -22 C / -8 F19:13
hrwlardman: I do not know how it looks in maverick but lucid had ubuntu one or alternative (which is good old debian one)19:14
hrwtobis87: I saw it19:14
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hrwtobis87: i8k is old driver which should vanish for most of machines19:14
pogDocScrutinizer: yeh, I will whatch a few other youtube videos, I have to get used to this logic.19:15
tobis87hrw: i'm sure he only needs to compile the correct module, with some patch... it is called i8k?19:15
lardmanhrw: It's more than I'm afraid of what it will do to my Win7 installation, it doesn't seem to detect new disks with no partition table which worries me19:15
hrwtobis87: i8k is for old dell laptops19:15
hrwlardman: ubuntu or debian installer?19:15
hrwreport bug and use debian installer19:16
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xnt14hrw: k19:16
lardmanhrw: yeah19:16
tobis87hell yes, hardware encryption reduces the load from kcryptd from 30% to 10%, if there would be the freezing, but well the driver is quite new from 20.08, speed is half of the normal speed with aes-12819:17
hrwxnt14: "sudo sensors-detect" will try driver by driver - if will not find any then you are out of luck19:17
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tobis87xnt14: under Schritt 5, it says if  value 7 and 8 show negative values (-22) , the driver can't detect the speed of the fan... the forth value should be the temperature in celcius19:24
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hrwtobis87: and article is from 2003...19:25
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tobis87yes, well the pentium d is not much newer, it is still the same driver... maybe the widget which reads the temperature, reads the wrong value19:27
hrwi8k was written for laptops. old ones19:27
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hrwanyway time for me19:27
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Khertanlol cpu Temp 42°C19:29
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AcTiVaTehzm, just added my bt mouse and kbd but is there any option needed to be set for bt-kbd-remap ?19:31
AcTiVaTeit says pc105 for model when I run it and I think that's correct19:32
wazdhello everyone19:33
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JaffaGAN900: Seen Karsten's mail? :(20:03
Stskeepsno, i'm with c20:05
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rmrfchikwow.. what a warm accept of Vexed on t.m.o ;)20:19
rmrfchikdidn't expect it ;)20:19
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fralsbah gstreamer cli looks messy20:29
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Elleofrals: not especially, putting together a gstreamer pipeline at the command line is a lot like just setting up a bunch of unix applications piping to one another20:32
tobis87frals: did you had time to look into hw accel? there are still a lot of bugs, 256-bit causes the module to oops and an encrypted swap causes the device to not come back from powersaving (black screen)20:33
Elleo$elementname parameters ! $element2 ! element3, etc.20:33
tobis87while it does come back, if encryption is used without accel.20:34
fralstobis87: not had time at all im afraid20:35
fralsElleo: bah, looks messy :P20:35
tobis87i already wrote the maintainer, but why is everything so slow... i might consider to resend the email on linux-crypto-vger, hell what do they do at nokia? i thought they want to ship the driver with their new producs!20:36
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tobis87i mean the first time to linux-crypto-vger, wrote him in private before.20:37
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RST38hmoo all20:38
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crashanddieKhertan: is khweeter available on one of your repos?20:40
MNZDocScrutinizer, there is hope :D20:40
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MNZThere's also a lot of googling to ensue....20:40
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Khertan crashanddie extras-devel20:42
Khertancrashanddie, my repository is more stable than extras-devel20:42
crashanddieKhertan: that's why I want your repository20:42
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crashanddieKhertan: apt-get is giving gpg errors for your repo20:47
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crashanddieand apt-get doesn't find khweeteur20:49
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mecekhweeteur is in devel, isn't it?20:55
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, nope.20:57
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, why frown?20:58
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ideinithello all21:04
* ideinit I am having issue installing python-setuptools, the error message is "21:05
ideinitThe following packages have unmet dependencies:21:05
ideinit  python-setuptools: Depends: python-pkg-resources (= 0.6c9-1maemo2) but it is not installable21:05
ideinitE: Broken packages"21:05
ideinitcan anyone help?21:05
tobis87ideinit: your command was apt-get install python-setuptools?21:06
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ideinittobis87: yes it is, "apt-get install python-setuptools"21:07
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ideinittobis87: and I have the extras-devel repository in my sources.list21:08
tobis87you havn't done anything wrong, the package has missing dependency
tobis87i don't use it, so it might never had worked...21:09
ideinitActually, I have one device that actually worked21:10
tobis87but it shouldn't be in extras then21:10
ideinitperhaps we caught it before it went broken?21:10
tobis87maybe, the missing package was broken, yes you could have got it while the dependency was still met21:11
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ideinitGrrrr... there must be somebody out there that uses python?!21:11
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tobis87sorry, i don't... i still hope to learn perl eventually when i need it. i go my way with c.21:13
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Arkenoimy address book is all fucked up, i think it is google to blame21:22
Arkenoiall merged contacts "exploded", several are missing as well as half of avatars21:22
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mintuxim linux22:00
mintuxim in linux and I want to update my phon22:01
Venemomintux: okay, update it22:01
mintuxI can not install any software now and get conflict errors22:01
mintuxVenemo:  but I don't know . I should update my phone from pc22:01
Venemomintux: what software version are you using ang what is your issue?22:01
mintuxor I can updated form phon22:01
mintuxI got error for maemo5 and qt lib22:02
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mintuxfor install each software22:02
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mintuxmy version of maemo is 3.1010.02-8.00322:02
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infobotwell, flashing is
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mintuxis it safe ?22:03
mintuxI changed something in my phone22:03
mintuxlike the path22:04
Venemomintux: what?22:04
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mintuxpath of theme22:04
mintuxand fonts22:04
mintuxand put in /home/opt22:04
Venemomintux: okay.22:04
tobis87sure it's save, but backup your important data first22:04
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Venemomintux: create a backup of your data. (contacts, ims, etc. with the Backup application) and back it up to your computer22:04
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Venemomintux: then reflash your eMMC and rootfs22:05
mintuxVenemo: I should have windows ?22:05
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Venemomintux: no, it works on windows22:05
Venemomintux: see22:05
tobis87and linux22:05
infobotit has been said that flashing is
Venemomintux: it works on linux, windows, and mac22:05
tobis87(21:01:06) mintux: im in linux and I want to update my phon <- which distro do you use?22:06
mintuxtobis87: my pc is ubuntu 10.4 and my phone is n90022:07
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Venemomintux: should work fine22:07
tobis87ok, i justed asked, in case your distro wouldn't use deb22:07
Venemomintux: follow the instructions on the page I linked22:07
Venemomintux: they are pretty easy.22:08
mintuxoh oke22:08
mintuxso I have my softwares ?22:08
mintuxI installed before?22:08
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Venemomintux: the Backup app can save the names of the apps you previously installed and will reinstall them once you restore the backup22:08
mintuxVenemo: nad what happens after backup ? my phone works better?22:09
tobis87Venemo: also the apps from extra?22:09
tobis87mintux: will be in the same state, in which it was after you got it22:10
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tobis87s/will/The n900 will22:12
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Venemotobis87: yes, it saves the list of apps installed from anywhere22:15
Venemotobis87: of course you have to enable the repos you installed them from, before restoring them22:15
Venemomintux: after the update, the N900 will work better. A great deal of bugs have been fixed. Some remain, but not much22:16
mintuxVenemo: actually I don't upgrade . I install a new version of maemo22:17
jacekowskisame thing22:17
Venemomintux: yeah. you got what I mean.22:17
tobis87I never touched the backup, because I thought it was no use, since I don't use the n900 as a phone. I don't like to be available everywhere.22:18
Venemomintux: if you need further help, just write here.22:18
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Venemotobis87: it backs up settings, contacts, IM history, bookmarks, calendar, and application list (not the packages themselves, but a list of them)22:19
mintuxok . I don't think im ready tonight for this job . but when I have enough time to do that I'll check here22:19
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Venemomintux: it takes 5 minutes22:19
mintuxreally ?22:19
Venemomintux: yes. read the instructions. it is indeed easy22:20
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Venemomintux: don't forget to backup your data22:20
Venemomintux: to your computer22:20
mintuxVenemo: what is your os ?22:20
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Venemomintux: Currently booted on Windows 7, but I also use Fedora 1322:21
tobis87Venemo: Thanks, I should consider it in the future then.22:21
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Venemotobis87: what is your problem with mobile phones?22:21
jacekowskiwell, it's like a leash22:23
jacekowskibut i've trained other people22:23
jacekowskithat i just ignore the phone22:23
jacekowskiand then maybe call back later22:23
jacekowskiso nobody calls me22:23
Venemojacekowski: leash? how so?22:23
jacekowskiwhat do you think22:24
Venemojacekowski: to me, it is a tool that helps me stay in touch with people22:25
tobis87Venemo: Getting called, when you are in a situation, where you can't hear the other (football), when it annoys other people (train), on the toilet and relatives ask you if everything is fine (every day), and so on...22:25
Venemojacekowski: haha! it has its downsides22:25
jacekowskithat's why i have phone always on silent22:25
Venemojacekowski: I simply don't accept calls or take it to offline when I don't want to be called22:25
jacekowskiexcept when i expect a call22:25
Venemojacekowski: but it is good to be able to quicly call someone when I need it22:26
jacekowskii treat phone like a portable telephone booth22:26
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jacekowskii can call everybody22:26
jacekowskibut nobody can call me22:26
Venemojacekowski: haha! I get your point22:26
steinexanyone can tell me how to not make the phone blink when a call is received?22:26
steinexinstead just show the screen without blinking?22:26
jacekowskithat's a bug22:27
Venemosteinex: install MohamadAG's fixed Hildon-Desktop22:27
jacekowskihmm, it's fixed22:27
Venemothe bug is fixed, but not yet released by Nokia22:27
steinexVenemo: hmm, where can i read more about it?22:27
Venemofortunately, it is open source22:27
Venemoso MohammadAG created a package that contains this fix among others22:27
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Venemosteinex: reboot is recommended after installing the package22:29
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steinexVanadis: thx for the tip with MohamadAGs hildon-desktop23:01
steinexworks fine23:01
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ahynes1Can anyone here help me with Connection issues?23:01
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steinexit also seems fastersomehow..23:01
mintux1is it possible to select text from pdf ?23:02
lcuksteinex, MohammadAG51 reverted a change that could do with being an option really23:02
lcukahynes1, whats up23:03
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lcukmintux1, dunno, on desktop theres a select mode, does it exist here23:03
* lcuk has no pdfs to test23:03
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Vanadissteinex, wat23:03
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ahynes1I tried adding a new APN to support IPv6 connectivity, and when I did, all other connections disappeared23:04
mintux1 lcuk: I don't thing it works . because that select tools it's only for browser23:04
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crashanddiexnt14: around?23:04
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ahynes1I can still see them with gconftool-2 and in the /var/lib/gconf/system/osso/connectivity/IAP directory,23:04
crashanddieMohammadAG51: around?23:04
ahynes1but not when I try to estabilish a new connection23:05
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ahynes1I can also connect to WiFi using dbus-send, but no other way23:05
lcukoh cripes ahynes1 IDK this one I have never looked at how the ipv6 stuff interacts23:05
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ahynes1It doesn't seem to be related to ipv6.23:06
mintux1do we have pptp vpn client for connect to windows vpn server in maemo ?23:06
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Venemosteinex: it's Venemo and not 'Vanadis' :P23:09
Venemomintux1: there is OpenVPN that I can recall23:09
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MohammadAG51is there any way to debug the conversations app?23:11
mintux1 Venemo: does openvpn support pptp ?23:11
Venemomintux1: I dunno, never tried23:12
Venemomintux1: google is your friend23:12
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mintux1Venemo: the structure of vpn between windows and linux is different23:12
Venemomintux1: I use some weird Cisco VPN thingy for work, but that uses some other protocol23:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: More cutbacks.23:13
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Venemomintux1: I haven't tried any VPN options on the N900 yet. I dunno of any scenario when it would be useful fo rme23:13
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ahynes1Kernel Power supports pptp...23:13
ahynes1(But I haven't tested it)23:14
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ahynes1There is also a link to a pptp tutorial23:15
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, oh, well, he was already cut once.23:15
GeneralAntillesJaffa, this contract was just for 3.423:16
GeneralAntillesWhich took about a year. . . .23:16
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Well, true.23:16
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MohammadAG51lost all my damn conversations23:20
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ahynes1I lost all my conversation when I did a recent upgrade, but there was a trick that brought them back23:21
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MohammadAG51ooh, backups23:21
MohammadAG51love rsync23:21
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MohammadAG51Hmm, conversations starts now but crashes :(23:27
VenemoMohammadAG51: the Backup app also backs them up23:27
MohammadAG51i haven't backed up in ages23:27
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VenemoMohammadAG51: I do that once in every one or two weeks23:29
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MohammadAG51well, I don't :p23:29
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MohammadAG51any way to recover the db?23:29
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MohammadAG51it's 62.1M   .23:30
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secyritashmm, maybe23:31
secyritasMohammadAG51: might help23:32
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crashanddieMohammadAG51: can you open it?23:50
MohammadAG51Conversations load the db, up to a point where it crashes23:50
MohammadAG51most logs seem undamaged but... can't use conversations, at all23:51
lcukMohammadAG51, copy database onto your desktop and use one of the many sqlite viewing tools23:51
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MohammadAG51i copied it to /home for the time23:51
crashanddieMohammadAG51: open it using sqlite23:52
MohammadAG51what good is that?23:52
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MohammadAG51i want it back on the N900, not on a PC23:52
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crashanddieMohammadAG51: sqlite path/to/db "PRAGMA integrity_check"23:52
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trumeemintux1: there is a long thread on pptp on t.m.o23:53
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crashanddieMohammadAG51: the point is, if you can read it through sqlite, we can fix it23:53
trumeemintux1: should get you going.23:54
crashanddieMohammadAG51: that's why opening it using a sqlite viewing tool is handy23:54
lcukMohammadAG51, open in regular system23:54
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lcukand SEE if theres any visible corruption23:54
crashanddiethough the integrity_check() should help you understand what the problem is23:55
lcukif you have 60mb of zeros that sweet FA we can do23:55
trumeelcuk: does conversation db get slower over time?23:55
crashanddietrumee: yes23:55
trumeecrashanddie: crap!23:55
lcuktrumee, all databases get slower *with more content*23:55
lcukthey don't however suffer old age unless you add/remove records23:55
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crashanddielcuk raises a good point, if you don't have any friends, your db will be very fast!23:56
trumeedo we need to defrag the vfat partition often?23:56
lcukMohammadAG51, open your database in Microsoft Access, select Compact and Repair :P23:56
crashanddietrumee: it's flash, defragmentation doesn't really apply23:56
Jartzaafter 3 weeks of maemo-courses I'm a bit exhausted23:56
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trumeecrashanddie: flash doesnt suffer from fragmentation?23:57
crashanddieJartza: try maemo-cursing for 2 weeks.23:57
Jartzaand started to think how strange finnish language actually is23:57
ZuccaDoes anyone know what would be the easiest way to have webcam on N900? Just mjpeg over http would be fine.23:57
lcuktrumee, flash almost doesn't care about it23:57
lcukits not like hard drive physical spinning disks23:57
crashanddietrumee: there's no disk spinning with a needle having to move around physically23:57
lcukand time to move heads23:57
MohammadAG51skype's kinda fast23:57
Jartzacrashanddie: sometimes this teaching makes me wanna curse a low :)23:57
MohammadAG51i guess 12000+ messages do slow it down23:57
trumeecrashanddie: ah! got it.23:57
Jartzafinnish is like... condensed efficiency23:58
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crashanddielcuk: I'm guessing if you had a very, very big flash chip, like multiple cm or even ft long, fragmentation could be an issue (due to the speed of light)23:58
Jartzafor example "without a female rider" can be said with one word: "ratsastajattaretta" :)23:58
Jartzaefficient :D23:59
Kegetyscant you still have a file fragmented on multiple flash cells, making the reading slower when you need to read all the cells contents including the data that is not that file23:59
lcukplease can you pick my teeth up23:59
lcuki dropped them on the floor trying to say that out loud23:59

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