IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-08-30

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DocScrutinizer(well, the idea to call a company/product anything like *moko also wasn't that brilliant - but at least less obvious to german/US dudes not knowing Spanish)00:02
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kerio(what does moko mean?)00:03
DocScrutinizersomething you usually find in your nose00:03
MNZhair :O00:03
kerioi get it00:04
keriowell, at least it's open00:04
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infobotkerio: thanks00:09
MarcusMis it normal that gps takes a long time to locate without internet locator-thingy?00:09
kerioMarcusM: yup00:09
MarcusMeven after like 5min it havent found anything00:10
keriowithout phonet running and registered *and* without an active internet connection it will be incredibly slow00:10
keriowith both of those, it takes 10s, tops00:10
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MarcusMyup, internet makes it alot faster, but how much data does that use?00:11
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josephnexushello everyone00:12
josephnexusfor some reason the media player doesn't seem to be indexing new ogg files that I drop into the music folder00:12
josephnexusany ideas?00:12
MarcusMhave you installed support for ogg?00:13
nox-i wonder if you could tell it to remember the last gps position and start again from there if no notwork...00:13
josephnexusi can play the audio when i open it via the file manager00:13
MarcusMhmm okay00:13
luke-jrwell, kicking both watchdogs in linuxrc didn't help at all00:13
luke-jrjacekowski: ☹00:13
jacekowskiwhat is a bootreason?00:14
DocScrutinizer51nox-: that's how it's supposed to work, but obviously there's some bug in that00:14
josephnexusis there a way to tell the media player to reindex the music?00:14
nox-DocScrutinizer51, well here it starts with a position somewhere around the center of germany then, maybe it gets that from the 3g tower or something?00:15
DocScrutinizer51it's tracker00:15
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DocScrutinizer51without the NC from GSM indicating the country it starts with exactly my old coords but obviously those don't make it through cellmo to GPS00:17
luke-jrunfortunately, I'm not sure I have enough interest in figuring out AGPS :P00:18
DocScrutinizer51I wouldn't be surprised to learn that's a bug i cellmo FW00:18
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luke-jractually, I suspect AGPS might be entirely modem side00:20
luke-jr/I/ certainly don't get a fix under 10 seconds every time00:20
josephnexusany ideas on fixing this tracker issue?00:20
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: (A cellmo) ack, me too00:21
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luke-jrwith modem on 3G, 6 seconds to fix00:22
luke-jrnote, in both cases the N900 was connected to my Wifi00:22
nox-yeah it doesnt need 3g data link, wifi works too00:22
DocScrutinizer51josephnexus: check tracker's config file00:22
josephnexuswhere would I find that?00:22
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jacekowskii said that long time ago00:23
DocScrutinizer51somewhere in user's home iirc00:23
jacekowskiagps is done in cellmo only00:23
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DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: of course :-)00:23
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nox-jacekowski, so you mean it cant work without 3g/gsm packet data connection?00:24
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DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: it's quite consequent as same modem and gps is used on phones without a userland system outside cellmo00:24
jacekowskibut that would mean as well that cellmo can have two connections at the same time00:25
keriohuh? i think i definetely *got* a gps fix without an active connection and an active sim00:25
nox-hm i thought i had see w/o wifi getting a fix takes even longer that with00:25
nox-than with00:25
jacekowskikerio: it can get a fix, but not agps fix00:25
keriooh, i see00:25
jacekowskione normal connection for phone and one for modem itself00:25
kerionah, can't be00:26
lcukjosephnexus, whats up with your index?00:26
keriootherwise, why would it ask you to connect00:26
keriojust to connect twice?00:26
josephnexuslcuck, it just isn't updating00:26
DocScrutinizer51nox-: I guess modem will acept alltternative internet than 3G, or it maybe even gets agps data from bts without any internet data involved00:26
josephnexusit shows stuff from before, but nothing new that I add00:26
luke-jrnox-: wrong00:26
luke-jrjacekowski: I suspect this is why some N900 owners have been billed for tethering00:27
luke-jrbecause in reality, N900 *is* tethering00:27
lcukjosephnexus, try this thread
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: w/ only WiFi, no AGPS00:28
kerioto what?00:28
kerioto rapuyama?00:28
kerioit doesn't make sense00:28
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luke-jrkerio: the tablet tethers to the phone00:29
luke-jrvia phonet00:29
DocScrutinizer51I don't see that00:29
kerioit's not a phone, it's a modem :|00:30
luke-jrkerio: modems don't do voice00:30
jacekowskivoicemodems do00:30
kerioi had a serial modem that also did fax and voice00:30
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nox-yep there were those...00:30
luke-jrkerio: then it isn't a mere modem00:31
kerioit's still not a phone :<00:31
nox-stupid carriers shouldnt care about where data goes to/from, only how much00:31
luke-jrkerio: it's running the same thing Nokia low-end phones do, just w/o a LCD hooked to it00:31
kerionox-: why should they, if that means they can bill you more?00:32
kerio(i still don't get why people *accept* that kind of thing)00:32
nox-yah :/00:32
kerioanyway, having a n900 completely justifies you for *any* kind of traffic00:32
luke-jrkerio: that's why capitalism is evil00:32
luke-jrkerio: does it?00:32
luke-jr[16:31:52] <luke-jr> kerio: it's running the same thing Nokia low-end phones do, just w/o a LCD hooked to it00:32
jacekowskikerio: well, on my old £35 contract for iphone ( and now £25 for n900 ) i could download as much data as i wanted00:32
luke-jrthat was BS btw00:32
jacekowskiand O2 never charged me more00:33
luke-jrkerio: over here in the US, I hear AT&T doesn't allow N900, and T-Mobile doesn't allow N900 on PAYG data00:33
kerioluke-jr: then they suck00:33
kerioluke-jr: of course it does00:33
luke-jrkerio: and they're the only options00:33
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kerioi mean, if you download a torrent how can they be sure you tethered a computer to your n90000:33
luke-jrevery other service is CDMA or iDEN00:34
keriotransmission works perfectly fine00:34
kerioluke-jr: you live in the US00:34
kerioi feel ya00:34
jacekowskiluke-jr: well, here nobody would ever think about paying more than £40/mo for a phone00:34
kerio(also yeah, capitalism sucks)00:34
lcukhmm, c files,  using fopen(filename) can I make it so that it will try to create a new file, but fail and return NULL if the file exists.00:34
lcukand checking if it exists first then opening it is not atomic00:35
luke-jrlcuk: I think so00:35
lcukso i would rather avoid that00:35
keriolcuk: open it as... c?00:35
lcuki have done00:35
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jacekowskilcuk: you have to stat first00:36
lcukflags are "r,r+,w,w+,a,a+"00:36
lcukjacekowski, so it cannot be an atomic op in linux00:36
lcuki used to use that kind of syntax in windows00:36
luke-jrlcuk: use open(2) and fdopen00:36
lcukwhere i could open with a lock00:36
lcukso that it would fail if someone on the other side of the network opened it00:36
luke-jrlcuk: open(2) has O_EXCL00:36
lcukooh, looking00:36
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luke-jr"O_EXCL Ensure that this call creates the file: if this flag is  specified  in  conjunction with  O_CREAT, and pathname already exists, then open() will fail."00:37
lcukthanks luke-jr00:37
crashanddiesomeone forgot to read the man?00:37
luke-jrcrashanddie: not quite00:37
lcukwrong man ;)00:37
luke-jrhe needs to use 2 functions instead of 100:37
luke-jrbecause C doesn't support this feature00:38
luke-jronly POSIX00:38
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luke-jr(fopen is C, whereas open and fdopen are POSIX)00:38
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luke-jron the bright side, fdopen doesn't require a syscall I think00:39
luke-jrjust open00:39
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DocScrutinizer51(tethering) there's no reasonable way to tell if you do that (or your smartphone does)00:48
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DocScrutinizer51and ther's no second connection00:49
jacekowskiif you see packets send with two different ttls then it's most likely tethering00:49
satmdthere is00:50
DocScrutinizer51if carrier says 'tethering' he actually means 'using other ports than the ones supposed to be possible for the device you announced'00:50
satmdack, I was about to suggest the same00:50
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kerioDocScrutinizer: so... what do they do with... any phone that can be programmed?00:54
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DocScrutinizer51no idea, here we got no such insane plan fineprint. probably they'll charge you accordingly00:55
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zeltakis it not possible to run 'screen' as "user"? i get a permission error01:06
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zeltakCannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied01:08
FIQ|n900i get that as well01:08
FIQ|n900seemed to work if i ran screen as root, then exited and runned as user01:08
FIQ|n900dunno why01:09
zeltakmmm wierd...01:09
Shadikkasudo mkdir /var/run/screen, sudo chmod 0777 /var/run/screen01:09
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FIQ|n900wouldn't that only work temporarly01:09
zeltakShadikka: is that normal procedure or is it a hack to make it work?01:09
ShadikkaThat depends a bit, I'm not sure01:09
ShadikkaThat's what I'd do as a normal *nix user01:10
FIQ|n900it's not normal01:10
Shadikka/var/run/screen is where the per-user socket files of screen are stored01:10
Shadikkaso if you just create it as root and give everybody write permissions to it, it should work normally afterwards01:10
nox-sounds like an oversight in the packaging01:10
zeltaki use nix in 3-4 machiones at home but i always run screen as nornal user01:10
ShadikkaIf you run screen as root, it basically does the same thing :P01:10
zeltaki dunno i also cand sudo apt-get as user..before reflashing i remember i used to do that01:11
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zeltakerror i get:01:12
zeltakSorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/apt-get update' as root on Nokia-N900.01:12
ShadikkaNow that's curious.01:12
zeltakbefoer reflashing yesterday i could use sudo i i just imagining?01:12
FIQ|n900zeltak, you have sudo gainroot?01:12
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ShadikkaSome sudoers oversight?01:13
FIQ|n900you can edit sudoers with visudo, but dunno if it's the right way to do01:13
nox-it isnt (on n900)01:13
zeltakread in the wiki NOT TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT ..lol01:13
zeltakthe visudo thing01:13
FIQ|n900ah, ok. :p01:14
FIQ|n900i did it anyway. :D01:14
lcuki need a really tough pen driven a4 size slate.  something that can survive living between my lap and keyboard01:14
FIQ|n900but i do pretty much things i shouldn't do01:14
FIQ|n900(i've also changed defaultshell)01:14
derfShould have been around in the good old days.01:15
zeltakyeah really wanted bash but was warned not to do that as well :)01:15
derfThat used to brick your device.01:15
lcukcoping with bits dropped on it and work with high resolution pen01:15
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* FIQ|n900 edited passwd manually to have /bin/bash and also added "user ALL=NOPASSWD: ALL" in sudoers01:15
zeltakso you guys dont have sudo issues etc..? wondering if i shoud reflash again...:(01:15
FIQ|n900i'm ready for boot fails already, so i'm fine01:16
zeltakFIQ|n900: out of curiosity whats your steps on boot fails ;-)?01:17
FIQ|n900plugging in usb cable, hold down u, reflash!01:17
FIQ|n900i did that 20mins after i got my new N90001:18
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FIQ|n900was very tired and forgot the major rule to edit sudoers with visudo01:18
FIQ|n900managed to break it. :P01:18
zeltakhow do you backup and more important restore?01:18
zeltaki used the build in program to backup...that sucked..01:19
FIQ|n900reflash just fiddle with rootfs01:19
FIQ|n900and my important data is on home and mydocs01:19
zeltaki restored through it and it didnt restore stuff correctly..01:19
FIQ|n900so i was fine01:19
keriowhy did you edit /etc/passwd instead of adding /bin/bash to /etc/shells01:19
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zeltakyeah i tried flashing just /root but it screwed up apt for some reason so has to reflash emmc :(01:20
FIQ|n900kerio, because i dunno how shells should be specifiecd01:20
FIQ|n900and i was to lazy to google up01:20
FIQ|n900i know i will fuck up the device sooner or later, nn telling01:21
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FIQ|n900i've devel on all the time too01:21
zeltakso in terms of root..i just install rootsh right? there is something in the wiki about "sudser",,i guess that obselete right?01:21
FIQ|n900any more info you want that you will not like?01:21
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FIQ|n900zeltak, tha's the normal wa yin maemo yes01:21
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zeltakkk cool01:22
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zeltakso i still dont get it why my sudo is fucked..thats the only thing i installed (and openssh)01:22
FIQ|n900what's wrong with it?01:22
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FIQ|n900does it whining about you need to specify pw?01:23
FIQ|n900because, that's normal01:23
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zeltakno i cant use sudo at all as user01:24
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zeltakFIQ|n900: for example if i issue: sudo apt-get update01:24
zeltaki get: Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/apt-get update' as root on Nokia-N900.01:24
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nox-just type `root'01:24
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nox-then do the apt-get in the root shell01:25
zeltakyeah i can get root but i like to use sudo as user to quikcly launch stuff01:25
zeltakbut if thats normal then ok01:25
zeltaki mean if thats how it works on all n90001:25
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zeltaki thought i could use sudo tu launch progs as root or quikcly edit config files01:26
zeltak(like in ubuntu etc..)01:27
* FIQ|n900 got that functionality on his old N900 randomly, doesn't know how that happened (that was without visudo-ing then)01:27
zeltakheheh yeah i remember i could do it before the reflash..thats what drives me mad..01:28
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FIQ|n900why does bash come with an ugly PS1 D:01:29
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zeltakShadikka: the chmod thing dosent stick after a reboot? is there a way to make it stick?01:32
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MNZFolks I did it! IT VERKS! I got hardware effects (3D effect only for now...) working on the TLV320AIC34 in the n900!01:40
nox-ideed :)01:42
nox-indeed even01:42
SpeedEvil - linky01:42
SpeedEvilAlso - this is proof of concept that you can do auido filters on it too01:42
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MNZSpeedEvil, yes that's where I started, and on to the TI website. I got 3D(easiest one to do) implemented as an alsa mixer control01:43
derfWait, seriously, this has a hardware equalizer and they're burning 15% CPU to make PulseAudio do it?01:43
MNZderf, working on it ;)01:44
kerioderf: sssssh01:44
keriodon't spoil it01:44
SpeedEvilderf: yes.01:44
SpeedEvilderf: Also FMradio is shitty for that reason.01:44
kerioi still don't get it01:44
SpeedEvilderf: FMradio has no good reason at all to go through the CPU01:44
keriowho the hell thought that using pulseaudio on a phone would be a good idea01:44
nox-SpeedEvil, i read somewhere that it was to protect the speaker from too much bass...01:45
pupnikheh derf yup01:45
SpeedEvilFM radio use should go from ~10h to ~100h if that was changed01:45
nox-speakers even01:45
SpeedEvilmaybe ~50h actually01:45
keriothe speakers suck anyway :<01:45
MNZActually I think I can get the FM radio routing done pretty quickly, it's the equalizer stuff that's pretty hard to grasp for me :(01:46
DocScrutinizerMNZ: \o/01:46
SpeedEvil mnz - for a simple tool to show power usage.01:47
kerioMNZ: i love you <301:47
* MNZ does a happy dance01:47
SpeedEvilI'm polishing it and going to patch and upload it to extras.01:47
MNZSpeedEvil, sweet01:47
keriohold on, how can fm radio skip the cpu?01:47
* kerio doesn't get it01:47
SpeedEvilkerio: It routes through the codec chip01:47
kerioyeah but then you have no software control and no other audio01:48
SpeedEvilkerio: It goes in one A/D, out the other D/A through the internal digital mixers and switches.01:48
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: that's really great news :-))01:48
MNZDocScrutinizer, Indeed it is! I couldn't believe it when I got it working :D01:49
SpacedOutDoes the kernel-power or built in kernel use an initrd for the N900?01:49
MNZ Now I need help from people familiar with mafw so settings can be easily accesible to the user01:49
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MNZ:( Am I going to have to dig through mafw ? please say no01:50
MNZwhere's me shovel01:51
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kerio/dcc send MNZ shovel01:51
pupnikMNZ: you got a pulseaudio working without any EQ?01:52
keriohe got an EQ working without any pulseaudio :D01:52
MNZanywho, the equalizer thing is going to take some time.... I can't figure out the coefficients for the equation yet.... All I can actually implement is preset stuff (Bass boost, treble boost, etc)01:52
MNZpupnik, as kerio said :D01:52
pupnikgood job mate01:52
MNZso unless someone with a background in DSP steps up, we're gonna settle for the presets01:53
nox-moin pupnik :)01:53
MNZpupnik, thanks :D01:53
kerioi just want pulseaudio to stop eating my cpu time01:53
kerioit's valuable :<01:53
pupnikdefinitely kerio01:53
pupnika volume limiter could be done instead of eq, for some uses01:54
FIQ|n900wouldn't it be a great idea to kill if if you've sound off01:54
FIQ|n900maybe not01:54
pupnikyou can bypass it, but you need to watch your volumes01:54
MNZpupnik, volume control is already done in hardware01:54
MNZ(unless PA is doing it in software and just ignoring the alsa controls..... I'm gonna have to look into that)01:55
kerio#maemo - working hard to completely discredit Nokia as a serious software company01:55
pupnikMNZ: if you ever do find where PA is doing the EQ, please try disabling it and comparing rough cpu use estimates with it enabled and disabled01:56
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pupniki'm guessing the eq is taking about 1/2 of PA's cpu time01:57
pupnikor 1/3 at least01:57
MNZpupnik, definitely. Right now I am concentrating on the HW side and exporting stuff through alsa, next step is moving up the stack01:57
SpacedOutMNZ: alsamixer tells me the hardware volumes are all the way up all the time, but you probably already knew that.01:58
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pupniknox-: wats news in .de01:58
MNZSpacedOut, I've only noticed them move when I change the volume from the status bar01:59
MNZAlso, try pluging in a headphone and changing volume from the status01:59
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nox-pupnik, only the usual stuff i think02:00
MNZSpacedOut, just so we are clear, you are running "alsamixer -D real" correct?02:00
SpacedOutProbably not, anyhow my N900 is down and out for the moment, and I'm trying to reflash the kernel or some such to get it booting again.02:01
keriowait, what02:01
keriopulse reduces the volume of the audio feed but not the hw volume?02:01
keriowhat the FUCK02:01
MNZkerio, done in software :/ yeah, I know, PA rocks02:02
pupnikthere are reasons for that02:02
kerioreally, reasons?02:02
keriowhat reason could it possibly be02:02
pupnikindependent volume control per application02:02
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MNZactually I just did a quick test and the hardware volume is changing, both by changing volume from status and from media player02:04
MNZin funnier news, trying to change the pulseaudio master volume from alsamixer lags the device :D02:05
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pupnikyou have pasuspender installed?02:06
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MNZpupnik, on the n900, of course not. If you suspend pa you get no call audio :D02:07
MNZSpeedEvil, that software power management page will come in handy, thanks02:08
keriopupnik: bite me02:09
keriono offense02:12
asjfeel the love02:14
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satmdpa also has something called flatvolumes - configurable02:17
satmdif enabled (default), it'll adjust the relative volume of individual streams to the loudest stream02:17
satmdthat can cause glitches on volume changes on some drivers02:18
pupnikit seems to me that audio piping should be done at a low-level with realtime priority02:20
keriopupnik: nah, that would be the sensible thing to do02:21
pupniki don't even know what is taking so much cpu time.  though there is one hint about buffer underruns requiring a lot of processing to reset02:23
SpeedEvilMNZ: You've seen the various hardware pages?02:23
lcukpupnik, was that how asound used to work02:23
MNZSpeedEvil, yeah I skimmed through the ones linked in the wiki.02:24
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asjpupnik: the problem with running everything at high priority is well...everything is high priority ;)02:24
MNZThe audio codec is what caught my eye as why-the-hell-is-this-not-used immediately though02:24
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SpeedEvilMNZ: Because spec-writers don't strart out by reading all of the datasheets02:29
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MNZSpeedEvil, as far as the audio codec is concerned I think the spec writers have done a good job02:42
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technomike_phoneaudio stutter is annoying :(02:47
SpeedEviltechnomike_phone: Don't worry, it's fixed.02:47
MNZSpeedEvil, because they've summed up the attractive features quite well with little technical details. These wiki pages are meant for users right? not devs?02:48
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technomike_phoneSpeedEvil - still got to wait for the next update unfortunatly :(02:50
technomike_phonewhich could be a long way off02:50
SpeedEvilMNZ: sorry - what spec writers?02:51
SpeedEvilMNZ: Oh - I was referring to the n900 software spec writer.02:51
MNZOh, then nvm :D02:52
SpeedEvilI'm the author of most of category:n900_hardware02:52
technomike_phoneAny news on possible release time? I know its not announced but maybe someone knows something?02:52
SpeedEvilCan anyone not comment on the version of software they're running on their phone?02:52
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johnxSpeedEvil, oooh, I can.02:54
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SpeedEvil.5pot+1egg+2onion+10g oil02:56
johnxaah, must be a clue as to the release date02:57
SpeedEvilIt was actually a note to myself about the composition of a meal I just ate.02:57
SpeedEvilTo compute calories.02:57
SpeedEvilAbout 280Kc02:58
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SpeedEvil1Alas more boring johnx - merely a note to myself about the caloric content of the meal I just ate.03:01
johnxuh huh. no one really believes that, but good try :P03:01
SpeedEvil1.5 pot = 250g potato (150Kc), 1 egg = 1 small egg (50Kc), 2 onion = 2 small onions (30Kc), 10g oil = 10g of veg oil. (80Kc)03:03
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* johnx is only pulling your leg :)03:04
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SpeedEvil /me is bored.03:05
GAN900Anybody else hate ESPN?03:05
johnxGAN900, I love ESPN8, the ocho03:05
SpeedEvilI have never to my knowledge watched ESPN.03:06
GAN900ESPN15 is OK, but the rest is a little weak.03:06
johnxGAN900, where else can I see men kicking a soccer ball on fire? or hitting each other with ropes? or racing tractors?03:06
SpeedEvilAre the men on fire, or the soccer ball?03:06
SpeedEvilOr are they all on some large griddle.03:07
GAN900johnx, I'm just irritated because the ESPN announcers all speak like they've taken repeated blows to the head.03:09
johnxGAN900, you know I was referring the spoof on ESPN from the movie dodgeball, right?03:10
johnxcause otherwise I can't stand ESPN03:10
johnxluckily I don't even get cable, so it's not a problem :)03:11
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GAN900johnx, yes.03:19
GAN900Great movie.03:19
GAN900Hey, the local network may not be able to negotiate a renewal with ESPN this year, so it may not be a problem for me any longer.03:20
johnxhowever, if there was a channel that featured squirrel water skiing and tractor races, I might be tempted to look into cable again03:20
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GAN900johnx, ESPN.03:27
GAN900At least the tractors03:27
johnxthat's a start03:27
GAN900(and sometimes lawnmowers)03:27
johnxthe flaming soccer ball thing would be the clincher03:27
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GAN900johnx, how's that Pandora treating you these days?03:33
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johnxthe wifi was DOA and the nubs wouldn't calibrate. I'm sending it back on monday03:33
GAN900When did you get it?03:34
johnxjune, but I hadn't really felt like hacking, so it was a while before I confirmed the wifi was a hardware problem03:34
johnxoverall, the case actually feels pretty good03:37
johnxwhen I get it back, I hope to really dive into getting meego working properly on it03:37
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MNZAnd off to bed. Good night folks!03:54
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jaemEvening, folks03:55
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johnxhi jaem03:56
jaemMy recent build of Qt Creator from Master seems to be calling mad-admin with a switch that doesn't exist in the MADDE version that comes with the last SDK release.03:56
jaemWhere would I find a newer version?  Is it even available?03:56
zeltakhya...does anyone knows if its possible to activate the system log as in a regular nix machine on the n900?03:58
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zeltaksweet thx jaem04:01
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jaemAh, found it.
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zeltakhya...screen is really drving me mad...anyone know how to run screen as a normal user..i cant get it to run unless im root :(04:24
johnxwhat error message does it give when run as normal user?04:24
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zeltakjohnx:   Cannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied04:25
johnxas root: mkdir /var/runscreen04:26
johnxthen try as user again04:26
johnxshould have read: mkdir /var/run/screen of course :)04:26
zeltakkk one sec04:27
zeltakohh wait i did that already (and of course chmod 0777 /var/run/screen) and it works...BUT..after a reboot it dosent work again..04:28
johnxso add the commands to /etc/rc.local (or similar)04:29
zeltakahhh ok mind helping me with that :)04:29
johnxis this on an N8x0 or an N900?04:30
zeltakbtw johnx is that normal? is that how all you guys use screen as root?04:32
johnxI don't have screen installed right now, but no, on desktop linux the stuff involving /var/run/screen is handled by a script at boot that's part of the screen package04:32
johnxand I almost never run screen as root on my desktop04:32
johnxso, uhm, second question is: what repo did you find screen in? (can't help you if I don't have it installed) :)04:33
zeltakhehe thx johnx its from the dev repo04:34
zeltakdeb fremantle/tools free non-free04:34
* johnx installs screen04:34
zeltakmm i also have this in the sourcelist: deb-src fremantle/tools free non-free04:35
zeltakbut i assume thats part of the dev repo04:35
zeltakthx johnx btw :)04:35
johnxhaving the -src repository doesn't hurt, but you probably don't need it :)04:36
zeltakgotcha :)04:36
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johnxzeltak, well, I just installed screen and tweaked its initscript04:43
johnxthis should either work or leave my n900 unbootable ;)04:43
zeltakheheh..thats dramatic :)04:44
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johnxbummer. it booted, but didn't work04:45
nox-why did you need to tweak the initscript?04:45
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johnxso it will remake /var/run/screen on boot04:45
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nox-is /var on a ramdisk on n900?04:45
zeltakwhat do u generally do when your n900 dosnet boot..u have a hodini escape plane ;-)04:45
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rasterwave a dead chicken over it04:46
johnxzeltak, nah, I just walk the tightrope without a net. Some people exist to serve as a warning to others :)04:46
zeltakhehe appriciate it johnx :-)04:46
zeltaki cant belive almost no one uses screeen..its so usefull04:47
nox-i do use it, tho not (yet?) on n900...04:48
johnxhmmm, it seems like screen-cleanup is run before the tmpfs is mounted on /var04:48
zeltakyeah i meant on the n900..its so usefull to have my cli apps runing all the time..i use mc,task,htop etc..i just alias sr to resume screen an voila all apps are there :)04:49
zeltakjohnx: wasnt awaye on my nix machine there was a screen cleanup lol :)04:50
nox-hm so far i just left n900's `xterm'(s) open...04:53
nox-tho screen may use less ram04:54
zeltaknox-: and my n900 crashes alot and reboots because of game emulators (..long story..) so screen is very usefull04:55
johnxdoes long story involve overclocking? :>04:55
nox-well screen'd apps wont survive a reboot ofc :)04:55
zeltaknope not at all :)04:55
zeltakthe snes emulator reboots my machine every few idea why..04:56
zeltakyeah i guess ouch is the right word..even reflashes my machine yesterday to see if that helps..did at first..but now its back to reboothing the n900 after a few minutes of play04:57
johnxsome app that doesn't behave well with the NES emu?04:57
zeltakeven bought the game gripper to play games (highly recommended btw..)04:57
zeltaki guess johnx but u cant out my finger on what app..04:58
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zeltakany progress with the screen btw :)?04:58
johnxreflash -> play with emu -> install 1 app -> play with emu -> rinse -> repeat04:58
johnxI was thinking about hijacking its init script, but that runs too early04:58
johnxthen I tested to see if rc.local would be run if it was present: no dice04:59
johnxso maybe I'll hack the screen-cleanup initscript and move it to run later04:59
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zeltakheheh cool :)04:59
zeltakwierd no once asked/cared about this before..quite shocking05:00
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* johnx shrugs05:01
johnxI wonder if there is another screen pkg floating around or something05:01
johnxor maybe other people do the fix once and don't reboot all that often05:01
zeltakmmm intresting havent thought of that05:01
zeltak(the better package)05:01
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johnxin fact, playing with this initscript I've probably rebooted more in the last couple minutes than I have in the last 6 months05:03
jpinx-eeepcdebian squeeze repos have squeeze: 4.0.3-1405:03
jpinx-eeepcscreen version - that is05:03
zeltakmmm jpinx-eeepc thats an idea but i think using debbie for screen is a bit of an overkill isnt it?05:04
zeltakplus wont i have to leave xtrem open all the time?05:05
jpinx-eeepcnot sure - I run screen in tty on the eeepc - not got my N900 yet :(05:05
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jpinx-eeepczeltak: I was thinking more along the lines of would that screen .deb install in meamo?05:06
zeltakwow i though everybody would use it on the n900 lol05:06
zeltaki see jpinx-eeepc ..i have no idea...05:07
jpinx-eeepczeltak: I will - my N900 is in the post on it's way ;)05:07
luke-jrthe keyboard sucks too much to really use xterm anyway05:07
jpinx-eeepcluke-jr: external kbd ?05:07
johnxluke-jr, why?05:08
luke-jrI mean, it works if you *have* to, but it's not something you'd want to use often enough to make it worth installing screen05:08
luke-jrjpinx-eeepc: N900 doesn't support external kbds05:08
luke-jrwell, not Maemo anyhow05:08
luke-jrjohnx: it's just uncomfortable05:08
luke-jrlike the N810, but worse05:08
* jpinx-eeepc had heard a while ago that the usb hack was possible for an external kbd05:08
zeltakluke-jr: its not ideal but for shorty time typing its passable..05:09
johnxluke-jr, the key feel is better on the N900 than the N810, IMHO. opinion I guess05:09
luke-jruh, definitely not USB05:09
luke-jrN900 doesn't have *any* USB host05:09
johnxluke-jr, you missed some news. :)05:09
johnxBTW, I believe I predicted that it was just a software limitation05:10
luke-jrjohnx: that is obvious IMO05:11
johnxluke-jr, some people thought it might not have power hooked up05:11
johnx(like the 770)05:11
zeltakoh well i guess ill run screen as root for the time being..pretty stupid but what can you do...:)05:11
johnxzeltak, yeah, for some reason the initscript is being dumb05:11
johnxmight as well just make a script to run as root that you can run after reboot to set it up05:12
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zeltakyup..its wierd btw..i also cant sudo apt-get after the reflash..05:12
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zeltaki remember i did i get a permission error..i do have root access (rootsh) but for some reason sudo is screwed...05:13
johnxsudo is screwed by default05:13
zeltaki really wish sometime the n900 acted like any normal nix distro..05:13
johnxso I guess you fixed it last time somehow05:13
johnxit's soooo much more normal than android :)05:13
zeltakahh so its not a personal thing the n900 has against me johnx lol :-)05:13
zeltakahh good to hear :)05:14
lcukn900johnx did you see my question earlier about sudser05:14
zeltaki had a huge dilema 2 weeks ago between an android and the n900..lol05:14
johnxby default, android's busybox is missing mv and cp05:14
johnxlcukn900, probably not05:14
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zeltakjohnx: should i file a bug somwhere reharding the screen thing? and if so where?05:15
luke-jrzeltak: just install Gentoo05:16
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johnxzeltak, dunno. the 'tools' repo is kind of a DMZ in a way05:16
zeltakluke-jr: good one..but i have enough "pain" on my desktop ;-)05:17
zeltakjohnx: i see05:17
luke-jrzeltak: shrug, works for me05:17
zeltakoh you were serious?? gentoo on the n900?!?05:17
johnxluke-jr, so you can make calls on your N900 from gentoo?05:17
luke-jrjohnx: in theory!05:18
johnxzeltak, take whatever he says with a grain of salt :)05:18
luke-jrzeltak: yeah05:18
luke-jrjohnx: f u too05:18
johnxluke-jr, in theory, theory and practice are the same thing. In practice, they aren't05:18
luke-jrjohnx: ah, but I already have telepathy built and installed. just need a GUI I like05:18
zeltakgotcha..:) i mean im new to the n900 and i know it can do some incredible stuf..but i guess gentoo is to hard core..lol05:18
lcukn900zeltak search yesterdays log for sudser question05:19
lcukn900i am on 900 or i would give link05:19
zeltaklcukn900: kk..i thought sudser was obsolete?05:19
nox-also gentoo likes to compile much so you'll have to wait for that quite a bit on the n900's little cpu i guess...05:20
luke-jrnox-: N900's CPU is probably more capable than my original Gentoo box05:20
luke-jrand definitely more capable than the 233 MHz Pentium I once ran Gentoo on05:21
zeltaklcukn900: i searched the 28 and 29th..didnt find a sudusr mention?05:21
zeltaki meant sudser05:21
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zeltakk my bad lcukn900 found it05:23
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lcukn900me too - the wedlog views and renders quite nicely on microb05:24
lcukn900but if a judder getting going tho05:24
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zeltaki see so i dont quite follow the resolution lcukn900 ?05:25
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luke-jris there any hope for a working Nano in Maemo?05:30
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johnxs/in Maemo//05:30
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luke-jrin /etc/pmconfig, change 'sleep_ind 1' to 0 ;)05:33
Ousamahey...when is n9 coming people?05:33
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Ousamawhats next for n900? is 1.3 coming ?05:34
luke-jrN900 is dead probably05:34
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Ousamaor is n900 dead in the water already?05:34
luke-jruntil MeeGo at least05:34
johnxhe Ousama / N900_lover. how;s it going?05:34
Ousamabut that aint my name buddy]05:35
luke-jrOusama: Nokia has hired people to port MeeGo to N900, but won't officially support it05:35
Ousamaluke-jr: yup05:35
johnxOusama, eh. I just make up names for the people here anyways. Don't worry about it05:35
Ousamais nokia still selling the n900?05:36
johnxI dunno. if you go to their website, is it for sale?05:36
Ousamait is in usa05:36
johnxthen, uhm, what were you asking?05:37
Ousamawhy they selling n900 when n9 is coming in  weeks?05:37
johnxlet's rephrase that: Why do companies sell things even when they will eventually release new things?05:37
Ousamajohnx: wrong  buddy.......iphone is supported for years....not dead after 7 months...and no, i aint an apple fan boi05:38
johnxOusama, did I say that?05:38
Ousamajohnx: youre implying that05:39
ieatlintOusama, welcome back N900dude05:39
johnxno. I wasn't05:39
johnxI think you're being a little defensive :)05:39
ieatlintAug 12 20:04:11 --> N900dude ( has joined #maemo05:39
Ousamachill....just asking questions05:39
ieatlintAug 13 14:11:42 --> N900dude ( has joined #maemo05:39
ieatlintand now, you, connecting from that same hostname05:39
johnxieatlint, yeah, N900_lover and N900_hater as well05:39
Ousamaieatlint: ever heard of several people using the same computer buddy ?05:40
johnxieatlint, (be quiet about this, but I think he has some type of short-term memory loss disorder.)05:40
Ousamai dunno what your talking about05:40
johnxOusama, we have no idea what you're talking about either05:40
johnxso at least everyone is on equal footing05:41
Ousamachill everyone05:41
ieatlinthe also used the nick "maemoboi", which i find far more entertaining05:41
ieatlintsounds kinda hot05:41
johnxieatlint, I have no idea where to go with that05:41
Ousamaso can we expect any new apps for n900 or is the platform dead?05:41
ieatlinthamilton, ontario is where to go05:41
johnxOusama, no. there are no apps. the platform is dead. In addition, smartphones are going away05:42
johnxeveryone will switch back to MOTO RAZRs and laugh at how we use to use touch screen phones05:42
asjOusama: look on extras-devel, there's new apps every day05:42
johnxalso, the web is dying05:42
Ousamayou open source nazis are dunny05:42
ieatlinthey, i'm not an open source nazi05:43
ieatlinti'm more of the classical variety05:43
Ousamathe usb port on my n900 is broken.... can i replace it or am i fucked?05:43
johnxOusama, so do you troll other channels, or is just this one?05:43
nox-at least `we' dont have to `jailbreak' our device...05:43
Ousamajohnx: i aint no troll....05:44
johnxdouble negative ...05:44
ieatlinthe's right05:44
ieatlinttrolls are entertaining05:44
ieatlintand funny05:44
Ousamaim glad n9 is coming05:44
johnxieatlint, I guess that is a pretty good proof that he isn't a troll :> I stand corrected ...05:45
johnxOusama, wow. keep thsoe fantasies to yourself O_o;05:45
Ousamajohnx: you dont think n9 will be announced at nokia world?05:45
johnxOusama, look. I don't know who this n9 guy is that you're pretending is coming, but this is a technical channel, not some cybersex chatroom05:46
Ousamajohnx: why cant we talk about an upcoming meego device which is directly descended from maemo?05:47
ieatlintthere is a meego channel too05:47
Ousamajohnx: read the news much?05:47
johnxOusama, chill. you need 2 lighten up05:48
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Ousamajohnx: cool05:48
Ousamaread this dudes:
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Ousamathe freaking specs are da bomb man05:50
johnxOusama, I highly doubt those are all true05:50
johnxI'd bet on an OMAP3 instead of the Snapdragon05:51
Ousamayes...we'll needs a top end device badly05:51
johnxalso, if I was a betting man, I'd guess a 3.5" or 3.7" screen05:51
Ousamai am so pissed how n900 was freaking pissed i bought into the lies...the propaganda....freaking bitter man05:52
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johnxOusama, you seem a bit fickle ...05:53
Ousamawhen i paid $600 for n900 i was expecting great thing as promised by the Arsi dude last year..... freaking bitter pill to swallow05:53
johnxanyways, if you think Nokia lied to you, you probably need to contact nokia customer care05:54
Ousamajohnx: nah.... fuck that.... just venting here... nobody cares about a little man like me05:54
asjOusama: can you link to anything Arsi said about the n900 and what he prosmised?05:54
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johnxOusama, you're so right about that. you have no idea05:54
Ousamaasj: yup... theres a youtube video somewhere.... i will find it05:55
Ousamaand the worst thing is the open source fascist have blinders on their eyes....05:56
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luke-jrOusama: us open source fascists are also anti-Nokia!05:57
johnxOusama, you mean like, from WWII?05:57
luke-jrdown with their closed free market economy!05:58
luke-jralso, those N9 specs SUCK05:58
Ousamasuck???? u crazy man?05:58
luke-jrN1 had 1 GB RAM in January. Why do we need to put up with a measley 512 MB?05:59
Gizmokid2005luke-jr: yet the N1/Android are constantly having Out of memory errors...coincidence? :P05:59
luke-jrand only 8 megapixel cam⁇05:59
cehtehn900 was advertized as 1G ram too .. remember05:59
luke-jrGizmokid2005: irrelevant06:00
luke-jrcehteh: you're saying N1 doesn't have 1G?06:00
* cehteh saied "n900 was advertized as 1G ram too"06:00
cehtehnothing more :P06:00
Gizmokid2005luke-jr: not. Why do you need to include 1GB RAM on an OS that will never need that much? 256MB has proven more than sufficient on Maemo, at least in most use cases...06:00
luke-jrGizmokid2005: LOLOLOL06:00
luke-jrMaemo can't work with 256 MB06:00
cehtehGizmokid2005: uhm06:00
luke-jrtry turning the swap off sometime06:00
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cehtehi would like to have 1G06:01
Gizmokid2005and android doesn't have swap?06:01
Gizmokid2005I'm not saying it won't help to have more06:01
luke-jrheck, even KDE runs with less memory than Maemo06:01
Gizmokid2005I'm just saying, just because it has more doesn't mean it's going to work any better06:01
luke-jrGizmokid2005: RAM is easily the bottleneck in N90006:01
luke-jrand N81006:01
Muellisure it does.06:01
luke-jrand N80006:01
johnx512MB will make a huge difference06:01
Muellimore RAM is more cache. More cache is faster.06:01
asjluke-jr: and IO/mem bandwidth isn't?06:01
* cehteh thinks 512M or 1G would give the n900 a quite big speed boost06:01
luke-jrasj: that's over my head06:01
johnxI kind of doubt that 512MB -> 1GB would be worth the extra $$$ and power usage at this point06:02
luke-jrdoes more RAM actually use more power? I guess it would…06:02
cehtehi am quite positive about this06:02
luke-jrcan Linux handle turning RAM on/off?06:02
cehtehyes it does06:02
johnxluke-jr, not DRAM06:02
asjluke-jr: the n900 can only move about 300megs/sec to and from memory, including gpu accesses.  You really think double the mem would matter? it would take 2 seconds to use it all06:02
johnxthat's what the *D* means06:02
luke-jrmaybe an array of 2x 512 MB RAM?06:02
Gizmokid2005^^ ty asj06:02
luke-jrjohnx: ?06:02
johnxluke-jr, if you turn the RAM off you lose the contents06:03
Gizmokid2005you can't just increase ram wihtout beefing up the access points (meaning bandwidth, etc)06:03
cehtehasj: compared to the 6Mb/sec swap .. would be gold :)06:03
luke-jrjohnx: so?06:03
Gizmokid2005obviously android has mem usage issues, just like the N97 had...06:03
luke-jrjohnx: if you're only using 300 MB RAM, turn the second 512 MB off06:03
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cehtehand its not only swap .. if you have more memory you have way better utilized page-cache06:03
johnxluke-jr, so you propose dropping cache whenever the device goes to low power mode?06:03
asjcehteh: while I'm sure 512/1g would help, I think removing the io bottleneck from the GPU and CPU have to be done at the same time06:03
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luke-jrjohnx: sure06:04
johnxluke-jr, and then the device can be slow when you unlock it and try to open an app?06:04
johnxthis is why no one really uses suspend to disk these days06:05
luke-jrjohnx: no slower than if it only had 512 MB total to begin with06:05
asjcehteh: especially when you consider the desire for 60fps, let's see the GPU is drawing the whole screen, 800x480x24x60 == how many mbps?06:05
luke-jrnah, nobody uses suspend to disk because nobody wants to stop their bg processes :P06:05
luke-jrasj: fine. DDR3 at the same time06:05
johnxluke-jr, you're right. I never said more RAM wouldn't be faster, just that it would soak up power in a lot of situations and cost more money06:06
johnxand then you'd have to do a whole bunch of 'clever' hacking to try and reduce the power usage06:06
asjluke-jr: you realize I shove this device in my pocket, I don't want roasted nuts ;)06:07
luke-jrasj: why not? it's a nice pocket warmer in the winter06:07
johnxgenerally I keep mine in my hip pocket, not in my boxers ...06:07
luke-jrthat's a feature I miss from C76006:07
asjluke-jr: they don't have winter where I live06:07
johnxasj, you can have ours06:07
asjjohnx: no, that's why I moved06:07
luke-jractually, has anyone tested whether N900 and such devices in a pocket can cause sterilization? O.o06:08
luke-jrguess we can force Nokia to respond with some FUD…06:08
luke-jr"N900 = no babies!"06:09
Adeonhow do you test that06:09
luke-jrAdeon: not too difficult I imagine06:09
johnxluke-jr, I'd believe that correlation, but I think it'd be more do to the phone being kind of an unstylish brick that appeals to geeks :P06:09
luke-jrjohnx: lol, I wouldn't06:09
luke-jrslono and I at least have had a couple kids since carrying around N81006:09
luke-jrI imagine we're not alone06:10
luke-jrso unless we have abnormally strong sperm..06:10
luke-jrof course, testing on women would be an entirely different matter06:10
luke-jrare there any females with N900 at all?06:10
luke-jr(then again, I guess it *doesn't matter*, if not)06:10
luke-jrinfobot: monologue06:11
luke-jrinfobot: botsmack06:12
johnxanyways, what makes you think it would sterilize you?06:12
johnxthe electromagnetic emissions? the heat? the brick shape?06:12
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luke-jrjohnx: the nerdiness of it?06:15
johnxheh. If you survived the C760, you're probably invulnerable06:16
johnxthink of it the same way you think of training your immune system06:16
johnxN900::smallpox C760::cowpox :P06:17
luke-jrisn't that backward?06:17
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Ousamahey boys06:19
luke-jrhi troll06:19
Ousamathats mean06:22
johnxsometimes the truth hurts06:22
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jpinx-eeepcwhat's the state of using skype on the N900 ?06:53
Ousamaskype suck balls big one on n90006:53
jpinx-eeepcin what way?06:53
Ousamabattery will last like 12 minutes a day if you're connected to skype all the time06:54
Ousamaand you need a magnifying glass to see if youre doing a video call06:54
ieatlintjust ignore him, he's a troll06:55
ieatlintskype works fine06:55
Ousamano I am not... skype is a poorly implemented attempt06:55
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jpinx-eeepcieatlint: thanks - I know it'lll much battery and bandwidth, I use it on my eeepc more for sending SMS to non-skype people06:56
Ousamaplease go try it yourself and then come back here and report on battery....judge for yourself if I am a troll06:56
jpinx-eeepcOusama: battery is not a concern for me - I would not have skype running all the time - that is asking for trouble even in a netbook06:57
jpinx-eeepcbut I appreciate your words:)06:57
Ousamafair enough06:57
jpinx-eeepchow does the install go - easy?06:57
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Ousamaskype is built need to install anything06:58
jpinx-eeepcI don't see it in ovi....06:58
jpinx-eeepcOoo - ok06:58
Ousamaforget ovi.... n900 is a forgotten child on is built in06:59
* jpinx-eeepc hasn't actually gor his N900 yet - it's with the carriers somewhere between New Zealand and Thailand06:59
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asjjpinx-eeepc:'s in australia...bouncing along on a kangeroo?06:59
Ousamamay i ask why you purchased the n900?07:00
asjjpinx-eeepc: ovi store is dead for the n900, all the fun stuff is totaly free and in maemo extras, -devel and -testing, where there's probably close to 1000 apps07:00
jpinx-eeepcI am following the usb implementation with considerable interest - that is going to be a life-changing experience for N900 users I reckon07:00
jpinx-eeepcasj: cool - where do I find -devel adn -testing ?07:01
Ousamaone thing about apps in the repositories: there's lots of em but most have been abandoned, be careful what you instal07:01
asjjpinx-eeepc: docs should be on maemo.org07:01
jpinx-eeepcOusama: I hear you ;)07:01
jpinx-eeepcasj: okidoki07:02
asjOusama: most? go back into your hole07:02
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Ousamaasj: i have all kinds of apps installed and not one of them has been updated in a long time, i call that abandonware in my books.07:03
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jpinx-eeepcI'll check here before installing anything ;)07:03
asjOusama: not in the least, if the app does it's job why does it need updates?07:03
jpinx-eeepcreally only need irssi, bitlbee and skype07:04
Ousamaasj: fair enough... the thing with maemo is the apps are work in progress07:04
jpinx-eeepcassuming the browser is good enough07:04
asjit's like saying grep in linux is only version 2.5.2, how often do you think grep needs to be updated? :)07:04
jpinx-eeepcasj: are you in #debian ?07:04
asjjpinx-eeepc: no, and I'll avoid that discussion ;)07:05
jpinx-eeepcheh  ;)07:05
Ousamai think its fair to assume most developers are moving on to meego07:05
* jpinx-eeepc has no clue whaqt the diferences are between maemo meego07:06
asjOusama: write your app in Qt on maemo and it's a meego app.  Some caveats apply, but not for anything mentioned so far.07:06
jpinx-eeepcI saw a comment that meego might be available for the N900, but not sure what the advantage would be07:07
asjjpinx-eeepc: some structural distribution changes, but basically the dev story on meego is qt, qt, qt. (and qt-mobility) all of which are available in the same versions on maemo07:07
Ousamasome caveats?07:07
jpinx-eeepcasj: fairy snuff - all basic linux-like?07:07
asjjpinx-eeepc: yup, minor distro updates is all07:08
jpinx-eeepccool :)07:08
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asjmaybe some rpm/deb issues <shrug>07:08
jpinx-eeepcasj - just the usual ;)07:09
asjexactly, hopefully the hardware will be better07:09
jpinx-eeepcwhat's the latest on USB implementation - I have read lots of lists and forums about it07:09
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jpinx-eeepclooked like a pretty major amount of kernel hacking/patching was needed07:10
SpacedOutOuch, my /dev/mtdblock5 partition has a 4k sector 6912 in that won't read.  I suppose that is what is keeping it from booting.07:13
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sengepsycho_oreos: hey!08:58
psycho_oreossenge, yo, whats news?08:58
sengepsycho_oreos: lol! you convinced me to buy n900, i'll get it 2moro!08:59
psycho_oreossenge, its not a bad choice, its not too great but if you love tinkering I don't think you'll regret your purchase that quickly :)08:59
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sengethe concept is cool i think! computer with calling facility!09:01
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psycho_oreoswell its not exactly a computer but if you want to call it that I suppose you can09:03
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ham5adding a waypoint or marker on the maps???09:15
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iliushow to define bookmark places in Ovi Maps?09:17
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iliussomeone saied about PUBS. what is it?09:17
ham5bookmark places huh09:18
ham5probly the answer to my q09:18
iliusham5: :-D09:19
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iliusand I wish ovi maps was open source :-(09:19
ham5or something opensource was comparable ;)09:20
iliuswhat's the license of AGTL?09:21
iliusovi maps is also too slow and has bad interface09:22
jpinxmoan moan moan09:23
iliushmmm AGTL is not under the Beerware license09:23
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luke-jrwe talkin the non-free Beerware or the free one?09:29
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DocScrutinizersenge: congrats! welcome to the Nxxx club :-)09:33
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sengeDocScrutinizer: tomorrow! thanks :)09:33
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DocScrutinizertake good care about your micro-usb receptacle!09:34
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iliusis beerware license a joke? is it Public Domain?09:35
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iliussomeone may want to move code from a beerware code to a gpl code, without adding that funny message09:36
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* ilius wonders09:38
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DocScrutinizerilius: dare!! The Bavarian beerware liberation and enforcement army will raid all over you09:39
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iliusDocScrutinizer: really??09:41
iliusDocScrutinizer: :-D09:41
iliusDocScrutinizer: no it can't :P09:42
DocScrutinizerdon't mess with beer, or at least don't let anybody know here where I live X-P09:42
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iliusDocScrutinizer: they can not do anything even if they know my location!09:43
iliusDocScrutinizer: :P09:44
DocScrutinizerHere human rights are dfined like "Good beer, bread (or bretzel), air to breathe, stay alive..." in that order of importance09:44
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iliusDocScrutinizer: i still didn't understand if keeping the message is serious or no!09:45
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DocScrutinizerhonestly I have no f c what you're talking about at all ;-)09:46
ilius.... it is effectively in the Public Domain ....
ieatlintbeer always supercedes the the necessity of staying alive09:47
iliusis this license compatible with GPLv2 ?09:47
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ieatlintilius, it states on that page even that it is GPL compatible09:49
DocScrutinizerit's a "keep this (c) notice and do whatever you want" licence09:50
DocScrutinizerso it's much better than GPL even09:50
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iliusdepends on how you define "better"09:51
ieatlintyes, i should start adding that to software i write09:51
ieatlintor a revision thereof09:51
ieatlint"buy me beer commensurate with the quality of code"09:51
DocScrutinizerbetter as in 'allows more degrees of freedom in the way to deal with it"09:51
ieatlintso i get punished for writing code that gets me budweiser09:52
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iliusthen public domain is the best09:52
DocScrutinizerilius: no, beer is the best (if it's frankonian beer)09:53
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iliusDocScrutinizer: thats not related to software09:55
DocScrutinizerpublic domain also isn't exactly related to software. It's a tag attached to a concept09:56
iliusstallman: free as in "free software" is like free as in "free speech" not in "free beer"09:56
iliusrms the great09:57
ieatlintfree speech is my right to speak, free software is my right to software?09:57
* DocScrutinizer yeeps like a dog got stepped on its tail, seing RMS being mentioned09:57
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ieatlintthat makes no sense... which is on par for the guy09:57
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DocScrutinizer~trout ilius09:58
* infobot slaps ilius around a bit with a large trout!09:58
ieatlintverbification weirds nouns09:59
DocScrutinizereven *IF* we want to discuss that stall-man quote, it's clearly referring to *your* usage of the software wghere you anticipate it is completely free of charge, offered to you like "free beer". It's NOT about beer you just MAY offer to the developer10:00
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iliusDocScrutinizer: you can write propritary software and sell it, the buy much beer with its money10:00
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DocScrutinizersorry you lost me, and tbh this is boring me10:01
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DocScrutinizerplease take it to #sophism10:03
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DocScrutinizeror rather go and buy the developer dude a beer :-P10:03
DocScrutinizeras obviously even the 3 lines of licence comment he put in there made you think about licencing that much I'd say he earned a beer at least for that10:05
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DocScrutinizeryou're studying for lawyer bachelor?10:06
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ieatlintlol... there's such thing as an "xor linked list"10:11
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: wut?10:13
DocScrutinizermust be activeX10:13
ieatlintit seems half like a joke10:13
ieatlint"how far are you willing to go to save 4 bytes per node?" is really the basis of it10:13
DocScrutinizerumm, so along the line of "why use an array of ints, when we can have a dictionary of pointers to list of structures"10:15
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DocScrutinizerforgot to add second half of sentence: "... to show all the world our coding awesomeness"10:19
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DocScrutinizersubstitute last two words by any number of other attributes considered particularly splendid, like "eternal leetness" or whatever10:24
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iliusthis version of ovi maps, seem to have favorite places!10:28
iliusMenu > Applications > Location and Landmarks -> New landmark10:29
iliuswhy this does not exist in n90010:29
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DocScrutinizerbecause the AskNokia factor10:30
DocScrutinizers/se /se of /10:31
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: because of the AskNokia factor10:31
infobotthanks, DocScrutinizer10:32
DocScrutinizerbasically it's like asking "why is windows XYZ not existing for Windows Mobile" (e.g. windows VB)10:35
DocScrutinizerjust the tag windows/OVI doesn't mean anything regarding the actual product properties10:36
psycho_oreoswindows bob10:36
ham5I like windows bob10:36
DocScrutinizerwindoze boob?10:37
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ieatlinti like microsoft kin10:37
DocScrutinizernah, I really don't care to learn what it is!10:37
psycho_oreosthat's probably why the product failed to fly, for every 1 person that likes bob, there's at least 10 people that didn't like bob :p10:38
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DocScrutinizerI know Steve and Bill, but I wish I'd not, and for sure I don't want to learn to know Bob10:41
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doublemi need help configuring with my 5800 please10:42
doublemthabks  al o10:42
DocScrutinizerthough without incredible performance of Steve B. we never got the legendary balmer rap on youtube ;-P10:42
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psycho_oreosdon't forget about Paul, whos now making himself popular again10:43
DocScrutinizerdoublem: this isn't a generic Nokia support chan10:43
doublemwell i just need a bit help to get started10:43
doublemI would be thankful10:43
psycho_oreostried nokia forums?10:43
doublemwhat is it otherwise DocScrutinizer10:43
doublemwell where? sorry google did not help me much....10:44
psycho_oreosits for NIT tablets discussion, 770, n800, n810 and n90010:44
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doublemthank you10:45 :p10:45
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DocScrutinizer~wake Europe10:47
* infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on Europe and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"10:47
doublempsycho_oreos, I was there but i am lost cant really find what i am looking far10:47
doublemwhere is the 5800 section10:47
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psycho_oreosdoublem, you create a general help thread for 5800, and someone will guide you10:48
psycho_oreosthis isn't the place to ask for help on how to use forums in general :p10:48
doublemi know you guys are an open source community10:48
DocScrutinizerparticularly not about symbian related forums :-P10:48
psycho_oreosour devices aren't feeblishly underpowered :)10:49
doublemi like android a lot but have trouble doing this nokia because it is all locked up10:49
psycho_oreosand android discussions goes into #android10:49
doublemcan you put the maemo software on the nokia 5800 xpress music10:50
DocScrutinizeror *maybe* #nitdroid10:50
doublemor is maemo an os?10:50
doublemtoo bad i would of love it10:50
doublemwell i go to cyanogen mod10:50
psycho_oreosmaemo is an OS, and its specifically for nokia internet tablets whom are equipped with much better hardware10:50
doublemthat is what i use for android10:50
doublemha I see my bad10:50
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ham5except the ti gps chip10:51
doublemmind if i ask whic tablet sorry10:51
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psycho_oreosn900 is an exception, it not only has internet tablet capability, it can also make receive phone calls along with sms, etc10:51
psycho_oreosI've said it above10:51
psycho_oreosexcept for the broadcrap bluetooth chipset as well but alas10:52
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doublemmy bad sorry about making you guys repeating yourself10:52
doublemwell thanks for the help anyway10:52
* DocScrutinizer installs a battery of MTHEL along #maemo borders... "phooo, now we should be safe"10:55
doublemthe os is based on debian that seems cool10:56
doublemany screenshot on that site10:56
doublemam browsing seems nice with a table10:56
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psycho_oreosone demo of n900 and you'll probably be swept away10:57
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doublemi like debian a lot started linux with ubuntu like 5 years back10:58
doublemwow ham5 some of those screens are really nice10:58
psycho_oreosso.. what's stopping you now from selling that 5800 of yours and getting n900?10:58
psycho_oreos*evil grin*10:59
ham5fact that he still couldent save a 'landmark' :\10:59
doublemhow much time to get one of those from a stock n90010:59
doublempsycho_oreos, lazyness ^^10:59
psycho_oreosdoublem, .. poor excuse11:00
doublemi know that is my point11:00
doublemis another excuse11:00
psycho_oreoslinux is stable11:00
doublemhow stable is maemo11:00
doublemdepends how you run it11:00
psycho_oreosit just depends on how you treat it, install crappy unstable packages and expect the setup to break11:01
doublemi have a skill to make it unstable, very unstable11:01
doublemthat is why symbian is maybe good sometime11:01
psycho_oreosthen don't :) unless you know what you are doing and you intend to do it like that11:01
doublemand theyrah11:01
psycho_oreosin other words you like to be controlled?11:01
doublemyeah sometimes depends for what11:02
psycho_oreosin symbian, the device _owns_ you11:02
doublemi know11:02
doublemi have seen that11:02
psycho_oreosin maemo, you _own_ the device, the device and bows down as soon as you become god11:02
doublemalso the 5800 was a gift from family11:02
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psycho_oreoscrap gift11:02
doublemi cant get rid of it like this11:03
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Stskeepspsycho_oreos: yes, but the screen is made of cocaine11:03
Khertan1Hello all !11:03
doublemwhat can I say eh11:03
psycho_oreosStskeeps, you meant the symbian stuff eh? :)11:03
doublempsycho_oreos, probably what he meant...11:03
Stskeepspsycho_oreos: no, n90011:03
psycho_oreosStskeeps, can't see it being made of cocaine, or I'd imagine it'd be hard trying to smuggle drugs across international borders11:04
psycho_oreosinspection dogs will be on it in no time11:04
Stskeepspsycho_oreos: i have heavy duty n900 addiction, must have come from somewhere11:04
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psycho_oreosStskeeps, yes from being in here for quite sometime :) its a disease ;)11:05
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crashanddieI hate filesystems11:05
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crashanddieNo, you can't use time machine because the hard drive isn't HFS+11:05
crashanddieNo, you can't convert your NTFS 1TB drive to HFS+ without losing all the data11:06
crashanddieNo, I can't read to NTFS partitions11:06
doublemdo an sftp11:06
Flyseruse proper operating systems11:07
Khertan1ntfs isn't a filesystem11:07
doublemmount the TB elsewhere11:07
Khertan1it s a just a method to loose data11:07
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psycho_oreosgranulated data11:07
doublemwhat does fs in "ntfs" meam then Khertan111:07
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doublembut i agree it sucks otherwise11:08
Khertan1fucked system11:08
psycho_oreosfucked setup11:08
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Khertan1No This isn't a FS11:08
doublemlol i agree but more like fuckedfile system11:08
Khertan1Nope This is a Fucked System11:08
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psycho_oreosNot The Fucked System11:09
doublemwinblows eh?11:09
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DocScrutinizeryou can't seriously consider using an OS produced by a company run by such a monkey11:11
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doublemi can if i knew nothing about computing, but that is not case so....... no11:12
psycho_oreosit'd be an abysmal excuse to be a blonde when you have tried ubuntu :p11:12
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psycho_oreossurely a blonde would do better than that ;)11:13
DocScrutinizerwindows ==  Same spirit in both of them XP11:13
doublemi agree11:13
Flyserlol "I like when he says 'developers'"11:14
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doublemi am not a dev but an environmental engineer11:15
doublemuse archlinux everyday tough11:15
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doublemso am not that retarded11:15
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doublemam on it as we speak actually11:16
doublemhate windows actually11:16
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doublembut do use it when i dont have a choice...11:18
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DocScrutinizeryeah, shooting yourself in the forehead isn't always an alternative, though sometimes I consider it when confronted with the need of using windows11:19
doublemwell like for school the prof wants matlab i offer an open source11:22
doublemhe says no what can i say11:22
doublemjust run matlab in windows in a virtual box11:23
doublempretty much11:23
doublemthat is what i do11:23
Flyserdoes matlab work in wineß11:24
doublemnever tried but vm work fine on mine11:25
FlyserI prefer not to own windows licenese11:25
doublemi dont11:26
doublemschool gives them to me for free11:26
doublemso why say no11:26
DocScrutinizercause working with windoze drills holes into your neocortex11:27
doublemwell yeah but they will say that is not an excuse and wont look further11:28
Dassudoublem: wtf, matlab  works on linux11:28
doublemand because i care more about my grades than open source that is why i do it....11:29
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DocScrutinizerthen sue them for not making good use of public funding, as there are better more economic alternatives than M$, esp for educational purposes11:29
doublemwtf Dassu, said i did not try it it....11:29
doublemprivately funded and am not rich enough to sue my school and dont want to put the effort into it11:30
DassuWell, my school in the other hand offers a possibility to do matlab exercises in the Linux class11:30
doublemnice where is that?11:31
Dassu:( In Finland11:31
DocScrutinizerthen simply install buntkuh with win7 theme and matlab-linux on your engine, and laugh at the prof when he gets puzzled going outside of matlap app and not exactly finding stuff to work like HE expected11:31
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doublemwhy does it not suprise me that you use a nokia then Dassu11:32
doublemyeah DocScrutinizer but the matlab licence is not free11:32
doublemi do not own the licence that is my point11:33
DocScrutinizerhmm, but maybe convertable11:33
doublemthey dont give the numbers to me11:34
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doublemwell i could get an illegal licence as well11:34
DocScrutinizerI'd not even be surprised about the linux version happily running on the windows licence key11:34
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DocScrutinizer~weather EDDN11:36
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.08.30 0820 UTC; Dew Point: 44 F (7 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.77 in. Hg (1008 hPa); Relative Humidity: 100%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 44 F (7 C); Visibility: 5 mile(s); Weather: Rain; Wind: from the W (280 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT)11:36
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DocScrutinizerprepare for a particularly grumpy doc today!11:37
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DocScrutinizerI mean what an August is THAT (on northern hemisphere)11:38
doublemalright guys bed time thanks for help and nice talking to you guys11:38
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seif_hey guys11:47
seif_is there portrait mode available for maemo11:47
psycho_oreosyes partially.. not available for the desktop11:47
Flyserseif_: some applications work in portrait mode, some not11:48
Flysersome do not*11:48
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psycho_oreoswhy? so can show it off to your iphone friends and be cool?11:49
psycho_oreoshe's probably looking for warez11:50
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DocScrutinizer~ ~11:50
Corsacmaemo_5_fremantle_5.3_with-xxx-portrait-xxx.rar ?11:51
infobot:), DocScrutinizer11:51
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: warez are found at OVI :-P11:55
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I think they exist everywhere :)11:56
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stef_204hi, does anyone know whether installing the community build Mozilla Firefox Mobile on the N900 will interfere with the default N900 browser?  Or will it nicely install side-by-side and run side-by-side?12:37
Sickkiit nicely install side-by-side and run side-by-side12:37
stef_204Sickki: ok, great. tx12:38
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trumeeguys, when a Tv-out cable is plugged into N900, is the audio not routed to the tv?12:45
lcuktrumee, that would be silly.   the audio is sent to tv12:46
trumeelcuk: My n900 doesnt detect the tv-out cable?12:46
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trumeelcuk: it sees the headphone fine.12:46
lcukthats not the first time that might occur.  or your cables are not plugged in correctly?12:46
* lcuk has to switch to correct av12:47
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trumeelcuk: what do you suggest i need to do?12:47
trumeelcuk: i dont have a TV around, only N900 and cable. Does N900 actuall y sense the TV?12:48
bincehi guys does any one knw how to get started for developing apps for nokia n900,i have experience in workin with PyGTK will that help,i am new to MAEMO family,pls i need help12:48
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bincei need to develop an app based on its accelerometer hardware,can any one suggest what all things i need to for developing in maemo under windows os12:50
lcuktrumee, should do12:50
lcukunless you are stodd infront of hundreds of people12:50
trumeeshouldnt the N900 detect the tv-out cable. I am play audio using media player mplayer and the audio is still being routed through the speakers12:50
trumeei do get [94191.079589] headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected in dmesg12:51
bincecan anyone suggest atleast some website to start with other than maemo.org12:51
trumeeSo N900 does see the cable. But media-player still routes music via speakers. And headphone-daemon doesnt kick in.12:52
trumeecan somebody do me a favour. can they plug in their tv-out cable without the tv and check whether media-player routes audio trhough the speakers or not.12:53
DocScrutinizerit does12:54
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DocScrutinizerI'm using exactly that setup all the time12:54
trumeeDocScrutinizer: what do you mean, N900 speakers switch off when cable is plugged in?12:55
lcuktrumee, if theres nothing connected to the other end, I don't think theres anything to detect12:55
lcukbare uncomplete circuit (even in cable form) is not the same as connected12:55
DocScrutinizertrumee: yes12:55
trumeelcuk: ah, you mean N900 detects the TV presence?12:55
lcukcircuit completion sounds more feasible12:55
lcuki dont think it does anything until you actually plug both ends in - with headphones the circuit is complete12:56
DocScrutinizerlcuk: only for mic/cvbas12:56
trumeeDocScrutinizer: lcuk seems to suggest circuit needs to be complete. You are suggesting the opposite?12:56
X-FadeOutput jack acts as a switch.12:57
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DocScrutinizerI'm absolutely sure there's no detection of any form for the headphone stereo out, and the yellow video plug is opencircuit for my usecase12:57
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: exactly12:57
DocScrutinizer [94191.079589] headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected12:57
X-FadeAll other workings are controlled by software, iirc.12:58
trumeeDocScrutinizer: yes, i get that as well in dmesg. But N900 speakers carry on playing audio.12:58
DocScrutinizerthat's a bug then12:58
trumeeDocScrutinizer: If i plug a headphone, then the speakers stops.12:58
DocScrutinizerhmm weird12:59
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: could you check that with your tv cable?13:00
lcuki have tvout cable now, n900 is playing movie and sound out of speakers and bare cable is plugged in13:00
lcuksound goes off when i plug the yellow cable into tv13:00
trumeelcuk: ah!13:00
DocScrutinizertrumee: I do it all the time, no need to check again13:00
janidoc, how does the headphoned work then ? it has to get some sort of info that headphones are plugged or not plugged.13:00
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: lcuk just checked it, it does need a TV at the other end.13:00
DocScrutinizernot here13:01
DocScrutinizerthough I'll check again, to do you a favour13:01
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: thanks :)13:01
lcukmind you my device is the one that acted odd *futzed*13:02
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trumeelcuk: what do you mean?13:02
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DocScrutinizerduh, ok, I'm not using TV cable but a custom 3pole -> 2 x RCA adapter13:03
lcuknm trumee13:03
DocScrutinizertrumee: so you can short yellow plug with some tinfoil13:03
lcuknoooooo that will screw with his head13:03
trumeelcuk, crap i just did that!13:04
lcukthe waves travelling through his hat !13:04
trumeeDocScrutinizer: i hope it did not screw the ic inside?13:04
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: ?13:07
DocScrutinizertrumee: no way13:07
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: thanks, i am relieved.13:07
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: So, why does it work differently than your custom rca cable?13:08
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DocScrutinizerit's a 3pole 3.5mm plug, not a 4pole like on TV-cable13:09
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DocScrutinizerso the 'yellow ring' is implicitly shorted to GND13:09
JaffaMorning, all13:10
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: thanks for clearing that.13:10
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trumeelcuk, thanks for testing with the cable. I know now that the behaviour is as expected.13:11
DocScrutinizerthanks for correcting my knowledge base13:11
trumeeDocScrutinizer: np13:11
lcukDocScrutinizer, so now, when i use my normal nokia headphones on laptop13:12
lcuki have to press the mic button to get it to work in stereo13:12
lcukotherwise i lose half the audio13:12
jacekowskiso it has tv detection13:13
jacekowskibut you just said it has13:13
DocScrutinizerit has incredibly stupid GND connection on receptacle13:13
jacekowski12:00 < lcuk> sound goes off when i plug the yellow cable into tv13:13
jacekowskiwell, not you13:14
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: aah you're back to N900 - yes of course, it's obvious13:14
DocScrutinizerlcuk's laptop however has no TV-detection but a borked receptacle13:15
lcukDocScrutinizer, different issue :P13:16
lcukits just headphones13:16
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly what a weird state N900 thinks it's in wrt AV-connector, when using AV-cable without yellow cvbs out connected13:17
DocScrutinizerhonestly that makes no sense at all13:17
lcuki cant check cos i moved again13:18
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SpeedEvilshort it13:29
SpeedEvilthe yellow13:29
SpeedEvilWell - strictly - connect an impedence under a couple of hundred R13:29
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ebzzryIs there a way to suppress the default camera application from running when the camera cover is slid out?13:30
jacekowskiDON'T CUT THE YELLOW WIRE13:30
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SpeedEvilebzzry: yes13:31
SpeedEvilebzzry: you redefine the HAL key or somerthing13:31
SpeedEvilAlso - put tape over the sensor.13:31
SpeedEvilOr remove the battery.13:32
SpeedEvilbottom13:32 maps are excelent, i wish i could use it in my n90013:36
lcukilius, wikimapia looks heavy on my laptop can you turn off the highlighting boundary layers13:38
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iliusSpeedEvil: n900 browser could not open13:42
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SpeedEvilCould not open what?13:42
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SpeedEvilwikimapia is just google map satellite13:42
iliusSpeedEvil: could not open http://wikimapia.org13:43
iliusSpeedEvil: and it seems heavy for it13:43
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RST38hMoo all13:45
iliusSpeedEvil: is wikimapia illegal in uk?13:45
SpeedEvililius: For some values of illegal, yes.13:46
SpeedEvilThey are using googles satellite imagery, in ways they have explicitly told other projects they can't.13:46
kerioso it's a breach of contract13:48
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SpeedEvilkerio: No - it's a breach of copyright.13:48
keriooh :<13:48
SpeedEvilAs you are not complying with the copyright license.13:48
lcukSpeedEvil, they can have keys from google api13:48
SpeedEvilIn principle, yes.13:49
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* ilius contributing on www.openstreetmap.org13:52
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SpeedEvilI need to finish off the housenumbers in my village.13:52
SpeedEvilBut no energy.13:52
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iliusSpeedEvil: where are you?14:02
iliusit there a way to download and cache wikimapia maps for offline use14:03
SpeedEvilFife, Scotland.14:03
SpeedEvilI have no idrea.14:04
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iPeter-Whats wrong with my device14:15
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iPeter-i installed power user kernel from repos, and now i try to shut down the device, it says it is in usb cable, even its not..14:15
DocScrutinizer   >>Fixed for Harmattan (the version after Maemo5).14:16
povbot`Bug 5552: When being called it is not clear what number someone used14:16
DocScrutinizerso if I wouldn't know better, I'd say this indicates "maemo not (yet) dead"14:16
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iPeter-How should i reboot my phone now14:18
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SpeedEvilssh in, 'root', 'reboot'14:20
SpeedEvilyou mean the device is off?14:21
SpeedEvilOr on?14:21
SpeedEviland what anout USB?14:21
iPeter-Device is on, i just installed power kernel on it and i want to do reboot to get that kernel enabled.14:21
SpeedEvilshort-press power buttopn14:21
DuckbootThe battery needs air..14:22
SpeedEvilswitch off14:22
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iPeter-SpeedEvil: Says same "Device is in use on usb" ...14:22
BCMMoh, you mean you aren't running the new kernel yet?14:23
iPeter-No not yet.14:23
SpeedEvilunplug USB14:23
iPeter-it is unplugged! :D14:23
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SpeedEvilthen plug it in and unplug it14:23
SpeedEvilmaybe it's confusred14:23
iPeter-Tried, no help.14:23
iPeter-should i remove battery? eh :E14:23
SpeedEviltrhen long-press of power button to reset it14:23
BCMMin thinks it is in mass-storage mode, right?14:24
iPeter-Got it, i did put usb cable again in, unplugged it and then pressed longpress on powerbutton.14:24
zap_Whats this idiocy about WiFi setup on n900? What button do I have to press and where? My switch has no buttons.14:24
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iPeter-My n900 have been really really laggy on few last days.14:24
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SpeedEvilzap: So go and set the password/...14:24
SpeedEvilYou can do that too14:25
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SpeedEvilsettings -> internet connections14:25
zapaha, thanks14:25
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BCMMiPeter-: have you had a look at top to see if you can see why?14:25
iPeter-trackerd and tracker-indexer14:26
iPeter-those takes cpy 90%14:26
zapohoh, how do I enter the character "<" into the password field?14:27
kerioiPeter-: edit the tracker config file14:27
kerioset it to throttle 2014:27
iPeter-kerio: Wherehow :o14:27
BCMMtracker is the thing that indexes media files, right?14:27
kerioBCMM: yep14:27
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BCMMi didn't know about the config file, can i restrict it to a specified directory?14:28
lcukRST38h, since this is more your street, how would something like this be handled and is it possible (since we are working on nokia devices..) to do this legally
kerioenable/disable paths, enable/disable removable media indexing, reduce the throttle, set it to low memory mode14:28
lcukas an app for n90014:28
keriothere's no UI to do that14:28
iPeter-kerio: Where the config file is located14:29
BCMM~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg presumably14:30
iPeter-Ill take a look.14:30
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kerioenable LowMemoryMode, set throttle to 2014:31
kerioit's enough for me14:31
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kerioi also removed recaller's dir14:31
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iPeter-kerio: LowMemoryMode=false14:32
keriowell set it to true14:32
kerioi wish i could just tell tracker to stfu14:32
SpeedEvilyou can.14:32
lcukthen solve mediaplayer problem afterwards14:33
SpeedEvilBut then media player doesn't work14:33
iPeter-Im confused.14:33
iPeter-What to do?14:33
lcukidk whats your problem14:33
kerioiPeter-: set throttle to 20, enable lowmemorymode14:33
iPeter-trackerd takes too much cpu14:34
keriothen reboot14:34
lcukiPeter-, whats it doing14:34
iPeter-kerio: But does mediaplayer work after it14:34
lcuka full reindex?14:34
lcukor all the time continuous14:34
lcukie might you just let it finish its scan14:34
lcukand then it should go back to idle14:34
iPeter-Well dunno, im seeking whats doing laggy of my device, last one was trackerd..14:35
lcukhad you just put new media on device?14:35
lcukmovies photos mem card etc?14:35
iPeter-Well ok, ill leave it like this, i dont wanna break my player14:35
iPeter-lcuk: nope14:35
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lcukiPeter-, give it the benefit of doubt to scan and look again and consider options kerio offered for later14:36
lcukbut just jumping and changing instantly might not be best14:36
iPeter-lcuk: Okay. Thanks of info. Ill leave it to default but if it does still do that even i dont add music/media to it, ill change settings.14:37
* lcuk nods14:37
lcukseems reasonable14:37
SpeedEvililius: What?14:38
SpeedEvililius: There are a few OSM apps that will run on the n900 and let you download maps. maep springs to mind.14:39
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iliusSpeedEvil: really?14:40
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iliusSpeedEvil: which is the best?14:42
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ShadowJKmodal dialogs should be banned14:43
DocScrutinizeraren't they?14:43
* ShadowJK can't tap ut away, and can't switch to another app14:44
MohammadAG51how do i disable calls on the N900?14:44
ShadowJKi even tried opening camera slider and powerbutton->phone thing14:44
DocScrutinizererr what?14:44
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Flight mode?14:44
MohammadAG51without disabling 3G14:44
DocScrutinizerno way dude, except maybe with starhash wizardry14:44
lcukMohammadAG51, tabletmode?14:44
MohammadAG51corrupting the phone app is one way, not easily fixed though14:44
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MohammadAG51lcuk, kills 3G data14:45
DuckbootMohammadAG51: Be an ass everytime anyone calls you - eventually noone calls you?14:45
ShadowJKredirect calls to nonexistant number? :>14:45
lcukahh i thought it allowed data through14:45
lcukie, just blocked sms call14:45
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: won't help for outbound14:45
MohammadAG51i just want to kill inbound14:45
ShadowJKlcuk, no it's like offline mode except it only offlines cellular14:45
zapAre there any known problems with connecting N900 to a WPA-PSK router? Doesn't work for me (correct password), while N810 connects just fine.14:45
DocScrutinizerthen just redirect everything to foobar14:45
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lcukShadowJK, sure, just a misunderstanding of difference14:46
lcuki was really surprised and pleased to see that mode14:46
ShadowJKMohammadAG51, i guess you need starhash enabler and enter the magic code that barrs all calls14:46
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Phone config.14:46
MohammadAG51i doubt magic codes work on IL orange14:46
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Is basic GSM ;)14:46
lcukmorning X-Fade \o14:47
MohammadAG51how do i disable forwarding?14:48
lcukyou left a msg last week, i didnt have anything on cos I was a bit poorly, its on now14:48
MohammadAG51says Value not expected14:48
DocScrutinizerfor the unconditional forwarding only14:48
DocScrutinizer#002# for disabling ALL forward, iirc14:49
MohammadAG51Uncoditional divert registered14:49
MohammadAG51do i get any notice that someone called?14:49
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MohammadAG51i used an old dead number14:50
DocScrutinizerprolly not14:50
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ShadowJKi guess diverting to voicemail would be clever14:50
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MohammadAG51Shadikka, value not expected14:53
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DocScrutinizerShadikka: also usually works on most providers and plans14:57
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: ^^^14:58
DocScrutinizerwhile forwarding to any other number might either be blocked or even cost money, even to non existent numbers14:59
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vanadisFormatting /dev/mmcblk1p1 (vfat) ...Failure. Bailing out.15:01
crashanddieyay! Just 50 more gigabytes to copy!15:02
crashanddieI never thought I would say this: 20MB/second is slow15:03
* lcuk laughs as someone makes a "cut and colour" hair appointment for me in australia15:05
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DocScrutinizervanadis: card borked?15:06
DocScrutinizervanadis: new one?15:07
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vanadisit's an old one from my N8615:07
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vanadismaybe reformating by ubuntu will do the trick15:07
kerioin ext3!15:08
DocScrutinizeralso a dd if=/dev/zero usually does wonders both to test and to wipe any oddities15:08
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zapNice, nokia firmware downloader doesn't recognize my IMEI. Now what do I do?15:12
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crashanddiezap: type it correctly15:13
zapI did, four times15:13
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crashanddiewhat's the number you're typing?15:13
crashanddiegive the 6 first numbers15:13
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crashanddieit should start with 00:2615:14
crashanddieyou're supposed to type the mac address, not the IMEI, I thought15:14
zapI can make a shot it for you :)15:14
zapit's the mac for N810, for N900 it's IMEI15:15
zapAh fsck, I'm not supposed to enter the slashes15:16
crashanddieindeed, imei, mine works though15:16
zapsorry, I'm a dummy15:16
crashanddiezap: go to settings > about product15:16
crashanddiezap: the IMEI is in full numbers without slashes or anything15:16
zapit worked already, sorry and thanks for help15:16
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zapAhem... what's "eMMC content"? The content of the internal card?15:19
zapCan I flash just "RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin" and ignore the "eMMC" image?15:20
vanadisformatting worked15:20
keriozap: if you want to reflash the rootfs15:20
kerioi'd say download both anyway15:20
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zapI see here a warning in red about the eMMC image... will it brick my device if I do something wrong?15:21
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X-Fadezap: What does the warning say? :)15:21
zap"NOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first ,.,, blah blah"15:21
steinexmauku-widget is in an upgrade-loop somehow15:21
crashanddiedid you flash the fiasco image first?15:21
X-Fadezap: And why do you have an idea you should not follow that?15:22
steinexeven after upgrading, it is upgradable again..15:22
crashanddieX-Fade: "Hi, there's a warning on my medication that I should only take 2 every 24 hours, can I take 4?"15:22
zapX-Fade: because I can't understand how it works :) I'm always tempted not to do something I don't understand15:22
X-Fadezap: On first boot, a lot of rootfs files get moved to opt.15:22
X-Fadezap: Which is located on emmc.15:23
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zapaha, that makes sense15:23
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zapwhat the ~180Mb image contains? (not the eMMC one)15:23
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crashanddiethe rootfs15:24
zapand eMMC image?15:24
zap(which is about 256Mb)15:24
jacekowski180Mb image contains more than just rootfs15:24
jacekowskimodem firmware and bootloader15:24
zapif I understand it correctly, its zimage, initfs and some rootfs stub15:24
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X-Fadebootloader, modem firmware.15:25
jacekowskimain 1st and 2nd stage bootloader15:25
crashanddie"Flashing the eMMC and rootfs on your N900 will completely reset the device to factory settings, reverting everything to factory settings, including /home, but again, excepting the external memory."15:25
zapand eMMC image contains just rootfs files?15:25
crashanddie"When flashing the eMMC, all user-created content must also be backed up manually to an external location in order to be preserved (i.e. computer or microSD). The eMMC image will contain the factory setting files and folders (.documents, .images, icons, etc.)."15:25
jacekowskino, that's part of fiasco image15:25
jacekowskicrashanddie: well, there is stuff in cal that's left alone even when doing full flash15:26
zapeMMC = external MMC or what?15:26
jacekowskizap: internal 32G memory15:26
zapah, e stands for internal, dumb me15:26
crashanddiejacekowski: yeah, like the lock code, etc15:26
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jacekowskithat's stand for memory type15:26
zapit's just a chip soldered there, or its a real card btw?15:27
zapand it's on a SD/MMC bus?15:27
zapah of course, it's /dev/mmcblk*15:27
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jacekowskiand e stands for Embedded15:28
zapthanks for answering my stupid questions :)15:28
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kerioi should really fix my romset :<15:33
keriodo you think i can fit 250 gb of chds and roms on the n900?15:34
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crashanddiekerio: sure, if you have a 320GB uSD card15:35
keriodo they exist? :o15:35
pupnik   Before you tell me Apple products have great design, check out the Emate 30015:35
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keriopupnik: that ran the same code as the Newton, right?15:36
DocScrutinizerzap: *COMBINED* is rootfs and stuff, you can flash without bothering about eMMC and without losing any data stored on eMMC. *VANILLA* is the eMMC image and you *always* need to flash it together with the *COMBINED* if you care to flash eMMC new15:36
zapDocScrutinizer: thanks for clarifying15:36
DocScrutinizereasy, isn't it? :-)15:36
zapyes, after you said it :)15:36
kerio~debian zap15:36
* infobot tells zap to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!15:36
zapthere's an rtfm about it?15:37
keriosure there is15:37
kerioon the maemo wiki15:37
kerioat least ;)15:37
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zapwell anyway irc way is faster ;)))15:37
infoboti guess flashing is
kerio~ubuntu zap15:37
* infobot lovingly explains to zap in a way that causes zap to weep with gratitude that zap must read the fine, friendly manual15:37
pupnikkerio: i guess so15:37
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zapk001, wiki explained I don't need to flash the eMMC image anyway.15:41
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crashanddiezap: tab fail15:48
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iPeter-Hmm, i were wondering how i can overclock my n900 after i installed power kernel :o15:49
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crashanddieiPeter-: some people told me you need to lubricate the CPU with motorbike chain oil before attempting to overclock it15:50
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crashanddieiPeter-: apparently, you can get over 300% extra heat dissipation from it15:50
iPeter-crashanddie: :o Really? Cool.15:50
iPeter-crashanddie: Ill try that.15:50
crashanddieI'm using "FlashWhite" chain oil (as that's what I use for my bike)15:51
crashanddieHaven't noticed any major difference, though.15:51
iPeter-Okay, where i can get that FlasWhite oil?15:51
crashanddiejust go to your local Honda dealer, I guess15:52
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crashanddieand by a CBF 125 while you're at it15:52
iPeter-Do i put the oil to under battery or wher?15:52
crashanddiedefinitely a good investment15:52
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crashanddiealso, guys, did you hear that the Oxford English Dictionary has decided to remove the word "gullible" from the definitions?15:52
jacekowskii'm using special mix with silver thermoconductive paste15:53
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jacekowskijust have to be careful to don't short anything15:53
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crashanddieiPeter-: by the way, if you actually did believe anything we said for the past 4 minutes, please forget it15:54
crashanddieiPeter-: overclocking will most probably kill your device, especially if you listen blindly to everyone like you just did15:54
crashanddie"listen blindly"? Interesting choice of words.15:55
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crashanddieif the guy is going down to the honda dealership to buy oil, I'm pissing myself15:57
iPeter-crashanddie: I did add chain oil under my battery and my phone died. Ideas?15:57
defraggerdoes anybody already test the nitdroid-installer?15:57
crashanddiedefragger: yes15:57
crashanddiedefragger: but they're most probably all idling in #nitdroid15:58
defraggerwhat do i have to do with the memory card before installing?15:58
crashanddieiPeter-: yep, there may just be a possibility to save you yet15:58
crashanddiedefragger: as I said, go ask in #nitdroid15:58
defraggerkk thanks15:59
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crashanddieoh the painful martyrdom of having a 300GB copy fail when there's 12MB left16:01
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chem|stdefragger: did work for some didn't for me, I had to do the partitioning by hand everything else does work fine so far16:05
chem|stdefragger: and NO there is no way of not repartitioning in the current version but it is worked on16:05
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: haha16:10
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: try some resuming protocol :-P16:11
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DocScrutinizeriPeter-: use a medical defibrilator, and an infusion of shampoo for greasy hair16:12
DocScrutinizer~tell iPeter- about omap-oc16:13
lcukDocScrutinizer, this is along the same lines as the calculator - ie in need of a core
GAN900crashanddie, clearly you need faster drives.16:13
crashanddieGAN900: clearly16:13
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lcukcrashanddie, just strip out all the 0's from the data16:14
lcukit will upload faster16:14
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crashanddiecan I do that with grep?16:15
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loufoqueis there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs16:16
loufoqueand so, for example, westnoth refuses to install itself16:16
chem|stiPeter-: Pipe 5€, matches 50c, good home grown pot 10€... the world around you being pretty fast (and being stoned like forever)... priceless, for everything else there is MasterCard16:16
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drizztbsdis there any way to FORCE n900 to recharge using a standard microusb cable?16:18
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Appiahdrizztbsd connect,  select mass storage and or pc suite16:19
Appiahit should start charging16:19
lcukdrizztbsd, usually there needs to be some sort of power source on the other end of the cable?16:19
Appiahwhat are you connecting to?16:19
drizztbsdcheap usb recharger16:19
lcukbut you could try rolling it up like a toothpaste tube to push the last few electrons out of it16:19
lcukdrizztbsd, you say usb recharger16:20
lcukyou mean a little battery cell with a wire that goes in16:20
lcukin which case, its possible that the little charger is simply not supplying enough juice16:20
lcuktry it with a new battery?16:20
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* lcuk has a AA emergency charger that works with full battery but does nothing otherwise16:21
Appiahdrizztbsd is it a carcharger?16:21
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chem|stdrizztbsd: the d+- arent crossed on those so the n900 wont charge16:23
ebzzryIs there an "Alt-Tab" functionality available yet?16:24
SpeedEvilebzzry: camkeyd16:24
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ebzzrySpeedEvil: will check16:24
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drizztbsdchem|st: so is it an hardware issue?16:27
Appiahcan you tell us exactly what usb charger you do have drizztbsd ?16:27
Appiahmakes things so much easier16:27
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SpeedEvildrizztbsd: It's a hardware/software issue.16:30
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n900-spacehey anyone got HP Pavilion dv2700 here ?16:31
SpeedEvilThe software will not configure the charger to properly charge from a device thart is not a USB host, and that does not conform to the USB charger specification.16:31
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drizztbsdSpeedEvil: uhm ok, I understand16:31
drizztbsdinfact the htc of my collegue recharges without any throuble16:31
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drizztbsdit's only my n900 that does not want to charge16:32
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psycho_oreosHP is crap16:32
SpeedEvilIt's not.16:32
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SpeedEvilIt's many other phones that also won't do this.16:32
SpeedEvilI don't suppose you have a soldering iron, and can open the charger?16:33
SpeedEvilthen it's a trivial mod.16:33
SpeedEvil- you short the middle two pins of the connector16:33
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* lcuk would never want to consider charger/power soldering mods as "trivial"16:33
SpeedEvilI suppose not.16:33
SpeedEvilI have in the past considered adding extra RAM to my laptop by desoldering the chipset, and soldering on extrra wires and more SIM sockets, so my perspectrive may be screwed.16:34
lcuknahh - that would to me seem more trivial in all honesty16:34
* lcuk doesnt like PSUs though16:34
lcukthey tend to be worse than chips16:34
lcukchips let out magic smoke16:35
SpeedEvilWiring under a BGA and having it function afterwards != easy.16:35
lcukpower supplies tent to handle more power16:35
SpeedEvilNor wiring on DIMMs.16:35
* lcuk used to do SMT repair16:35
SpeedEvilIn principle there is a software mod, but it's not ready yet.16:36
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SpeedEvilAn alternative would be an easily modified cable.16:36
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ebzzrySpeedEvil: Is camkeyd supposed to invoke the task navigator, only?16:42
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ebzzrySpeedEvil: In case I was vague, I was looking for a window switching-navigator, with window cycling.16:46
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ebzzryDocScrutinizer: Does it cycle?16:48
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ebzzryDocScrutinizer: Without displaying the thumbnails?16:49
ebzzryI don't know about others, but setting ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav:5 makes me dizzy16:53
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DocScrutinizerebzzry:   /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav;  The action when ctrl+backspace is pressed while the task navigator is showing is controlled by this integer key:  3.Activate the window that was active almost most recently. (In this mode, use two presses of ctrl+backspace two alternate between two windows).16:54
DocScrutinizer5. ctrl+backspace behaves like alt-tab on desktop (at least on KDE). While ctrl is pressed, every press of backspace rotates the windows. When ctrl is released, the selected (top left) window is activated.16:54
ebzzryDocScrutinizer: Yes, I read that.16:55
ebzzryDocScrutinizer: I came across Matan's stuff several months ago.16:55
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zapthere's no app manager anymore on N900? how do I uninstall packages?16:56
ebzzryDocScrutinizer: I'm looking for cycling *without* displaying the thumbnails16:56
technomike_phonehad to remove battery because my n900 crashed... again16:56
DocScrutinizerebzzry: so 3. is the one for you, no?16:57
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technomike_phonedamn it17:04
technomike_phonewhen I click share and share via service17:04
technomike_phonethe application like file manager or media player crashes17:04
drizztbsdcool mfe retrieves WRONG contacts birthday17:04
drizztbsd(with google)17:04
technomike_phonewith Internal Error occured17:04
technomike_phoneant ideas?17:05
ebzzryDocScrutinizer: No. The proposed solution still does not address the request at hand: no thumbnails.17:08
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DocScrutinizerdrizztbsd: (<SpeedEvil> An alternative would be an easily modified cable.) it's dirt easy: carefully open up the outer sleeve of the cable from charger to N900, cut the green and white wire, and connect the green and white end of the wires running to N90017:18
DocScrutinizercan be done with a sharp knife and a few inches of electric tape or similar17:19
DocScrutinizerno soldering of any kind involved17:19
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CorsacI should note that somewhere17:21
jpinx-eeepcwhat are we doing here?17:22
* jpinx-eeepc just got his n900 today17:22
psycho_oreosyour test of love with n900 starts today for the next 6 months :)17:23
jpinx-eeepcit's on charge, so playtime in anhour or so17:24
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DocScrutinizermeh, couln't wait as long. Also no need to postpone first fun until chaging finished17:26
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DocScrutinizereven quickstart manual explicitly says 'don't wait' :-)17:27
keriodon't wait, don't delay, don't fuck with us17:27
kerio(Big Bill Hell)17:28
jpinx-eeepcok ok - I'll make a call ...17:29
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ShadowJKIf your primary use is making calls, you've probably got the wrong device ;)17:31
DocScrutinizerFirst I'd do is associate it with my WLAN AP. Second: open xterm and do `touch ~/.cherry_state`17:32
ShadowJKwtf is cherry_state?17:32
Corsacha, the my nokia stuff17:32
secyrita1ShadowJK: doesnt register to my nokia if cherry state exists (:17:32
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DocScrutinizer3rd thing I'd suggest is simple: open mediaplayer, videos: watch "9"17:33
DocScrutinizer4th: do same with N900 connected to your TV :-D17:34
jpinx-eeepcShadowJK: my useage is sms but simcard and/or skype, wifi internet for irssi/bitlbee, gmail in a browser17:35
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* jpinx-eeepc hunts for how to connect to a wifi that needs a browser to login17:35
DocScrutinizerI cloudy seem to remember that's actually been done by a few brave17:36
DocScrutinizerhow would you do it on your laptop?17:37
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: 's ok - got it17:38
X-FadeJust connect, open browser surf to whatever.17:38
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jpinx-eeepcneeded to create the profile for the conenction first17:38
jpinx-eeepcnow to find irssi17:38
lcukyeah x-fade thats how i always do it at hotels17:38
X-FadeYep, me too.17:38
crashanddieyou'd be amazed how many people connect to open wireless networks at hotels and just start browsing facebook17:39
jpinx-eeepchow do I get to terminal?17:39
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crashanddieand they don't even notice it isn't https when they log-in17:39
X-Fadejpinx-eeepc: ctrl-shift-x17:39
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: xterm in applauncher17:39
jpinx-eeepcgot it:D17:40
DocScrutinizeror ^sh-x :-D17:40
jpinx-eeepcbugger - irssi not found :(17:40
X-Fadejpinx-eeepc: apt-get install irssi ;)17:40
jpinx-eeepcreally that easy? cool17:41
* DocScrutinizer wonders which pervert thought it might be a good idea to have kbd hotkeys on ctrl+shift+<xy>17:41
jpinx-eeepcX-Fade: bitlbee as well?17:41
X-FadeBut by the way you sound, you need to install rootme first.17:41
DocScrutinizertry to press that while walking down the street :-P17:41
MNZHrmm just how far can the speakers be damaged by a bass signal?17:41
infobotX-Fade meant: But by the way you sound, you need to install rootsh first.17:42
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: first you'll want to install rootsh from hildon appmanager17:42
jpinx-eeepcthis is a 2nd hand n900 - I need to check if it's there already17:42
DocScrutinizerMNZ: without Nokia special pulseaudio filter: completely. with it, not at all (supposedly)17:43
MNZDocScrutinizer, completely as in no-more-worky-whatsoever?17:43
DocScrutinizerMNZ: yep17:43
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ebzzryDocScrutinizer: Was my point clear?17:44
DocScrutinizercompletely as in "magic blue smoke escaping"17:44
MNZDocScrutinizer, I just stumbled into this a few minutes ago, never knew that17:44
DocScrutinizerebzzry: yup. Sorry dudue, no idea17:44
DangerMausnail it to the wall17:44
vHandaHi. Is there any way I can set a global proxy in maemo ( N900 )?17:44
ebzzryDocScrutinizer: OK17:45
MNZAre there any more caveats I need to know such that I don't blow up my n900 while hacking on the codec driver?17:45
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: oooh.17:45
DocScrutinizerMNZ: hmm, lemme think17:45
* jpinx-eeepc needs stronger glasses17:46
DocScrutinizerMNZ: make sure you're not messing with I2C in any nasty way. I.E know your bus#, chip addr, and registers.17:47
MNZDocScrutinizer, yeah got that covered by using the already laid out i2c code in the driver17:47
DocScrutinizerMNZ: but other than that, nothing I'd be aware of17:48
MNZI'm wondering if there are any caveats with routing the audio signal directly into the FM transmitter17:48
kerioplay some r'n'b17:48
DocScrutinizerMNZ: nothing known17:49
DocScrutinizershould be painless17:49
MNZMy dad's gonna kill me the second he sees any smoke17:49
keriois it *his* n900?17:49
MNZkerio, mine, but it's not exactly cheap17:50
DocScrutinizermaybe check for correct level, you might drive it into clipping which isn't exactly a nice thing to do on TX17:50
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kerioget it repaired under warranty if it happens :)17:50
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DocScrutinizerotoh on the 5nW it operates it's largely irrelevant what you do to it, no matter what17:51
MNZhaha I don't think the warranty covers damages due to bad haxor skillz17:51
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kerioMNZ: yeah but they don't have to know17:51
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MNZkerio, lets just hope it does have to get to that.17:51
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MNZDocScrutinizer, ok thanks, slightly more reassured now17:52
DocScrutinizerMNZ: actually it should cover damage done by any software means17:52
keriowork in ram! :D17:52
crashanddiebtw, last night I was in a bar and some group of nerds had the laptops out and phones and stuff17:52
kerioDocScrutinizer: huh? even if i spam .5s maximum flashes every .6 seconds?17:52
crashanddieone of them was ranting about the N900, how he had python and ssh on it, and was claiming it was "100% open)17:53
DocScrutinizerthough - on second thought - scratch that comment.17:53
kerioor if i disable PA's sw equalizer?17:53
kerioor if i overclock it?17:53
crashanddieI came round, and dropped liqflow on the table, then said "100% open, are you sure about that?"17:53
kerioyou're evil17:53
MNZcrashanddie, hissss! boooooo!17:53
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kerio"find me the source of bme"?17:53
crashanddiehe replied "Yeah, it's linux, you can change everything"17:54
Stskeepscrashanddie: people have different understandings of open17:54
crashanddieThen I asked him if he tried to synch gmail through MfE17:54
Stskeepscrashanddie: but yeah..17:54
Stskeepseven with sane understandings of the word, it's still not 100%17:54
crashanddieThey thoroughly enjoyed liqflow though17:54
crashanddieI even got free beer! Thanks lcuk!17:54
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DocScrutinizernext step: get laid by showing off N900 :-P17:55
MNZI thought liqflow was just a lib... apt-getting now17:56
crashanddiea lot of nerds hope that their cool-geekiness will get them some tail, I figure that beer is the best thing we'll ever get17:56
crashanddie(from the n900)17:56
Stskeepscrashanddie: my cool-geekiness got me married, so it does work at times17:56
crashanddiewell, married isn't tail mate17:56
crashanddieit just means lack of tail, really17:56
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: I have to log out of here to get the wifi connected to the n900 - no sharing allowed:( so what do I need to install to get irssi and bitlbee up and running?17:56
* DocScrutinizer cackles evilly17:57
keriocrashanddie: libqflow?17:57
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crashanddiekerio: liqflow, an app lcuk wrote that shows particles you can animate and that move based on the orientation and are coloured/resized based on the acceleration of the device17:58
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DocScrutinizerrootsh from app manager, then type 'root' in exterm to gain root access, then apt-get update, apt-get install <whatever>17:58
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: ^^^17:58
MNZliqflow is ffuuuuunnn17:58
Stskeepshow does other OS'es handle 'sample media'?17:58
Stskeepsdo they just hardlink the media or?17:58
crashanddieMNZ: shake your device, move it sideways17:59
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trumeeMNZ: is it possible to route calls to fm transmitter?17:59
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: apt-get install irssi; to be precise17:59
crashanddieMNZ: it will modify how the particles move17:59
DocScrutinizerno idea bout bitlboom17:59
crashanddieMNZ: also, leave the n900 on your desk and tap on the table17:59
E0xwhen fm-transmitter is enable i think route everything17:59
trumeeMNZ: presently i have to use an external fm transmitter to do that, sucks!17:59
E0xi mean transmitte everything17:59
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: ok - appmanager shows nothing but "add shortcut, Add contact, etc"17:59
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DocScrutinizernah, that's not appmanager18:00
keriobitlbee is cute18:00
trumeeE0x: no it doesnt route the calls to the fm transmitter18:00
MNZAnything can be routed to the FM transmitter18:00
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: you find appmanager in appstarter18:00
MNZbecause everything goes through the codec anyway18:00
MNZcrashanddie, yup trying all that18:01
trumeeMNZ: The software doesnt do that presently in PR 1.218:01
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DocScrutinizertrumee: eeh?18:01
DocScrutinizertrumee: I thought it does18:01
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: I don't fidn anything like AppStarter18:02
MNZI don't really know, I just tried the transmitter once as a test, that's all18:02
trumeeDocScrutinizer: the calls are not routed to the fm transmitter iirc. let me confirm that again.18:02
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: you opened the appstarter menu?18:02
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: click upper left corner icon 2 times18:02
trumeeDocScrutinizer: nopes they arent.18:03
DocScrutinizeraaah calls, ok missed that18:04
trumeeDocScrutinizer: i made a sip call and then turned on the fm transmitter. N900 still carried on with the audio.18:04
DocScrutinizerdamn, I'd be so pissed if it did :-P18:04
jpinx-eeepcthe 6 little squares, click once and it gives me a load of icons - including App manager18:04
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trumeeMNZ: is there any hack to route the calls over fm transmitter?18:05
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: so now you found the place to install rootsh, plus a lot of other nice stuff18:05
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: that gives "operation failed" presumably cos I'm not online?18:05
* jpinx-eeepc scrolls back for the destructions.....18:06
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MNZtrumee, AFAIK all audio goes through the same codec chip, so yes, once I get audio routing to the FM transmitter done in hardware, then everything would be routed18:06
MNZAlthough I have thought of this point before, and now that you mention it, I don't really think it's what a user would expect18:06
DocScrutinizerMNZ: probably policy enforcer will override your nice effort whenever a call starts18:07
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MNZDocScrutinizer, policy enforcer = ?18:07
trumeeMNZ, it will be useful to have a toggle button to switch between the two.18:08
DocScrutinizerthe PA analogon to alsactl18:08
MNZhrmm, yeah. PA is on my to-hack list though, will see about that when I come to it18:09
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MNZtrumee, why do you want to transmit calls on FM though?18:09
MNZyou realize anyone can tune in? :D18:10
MNZ(ok not really, the range is tiny)18:10
trumeeMNZ, because i want the audio out through the car speakers.18:10
trumeeMNZ, and i dont like carrying that casette adaptor with me.18:11
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: /etc/pulse/* , e.g xpolicy.conf18:13
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MNZDocScrutinizer, thanks18:14
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: /usr/share/alsa18:16
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DocScrutinizerMNZ: /usr/share/maemo-statusmenu-volume18:17
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MNZah, this will come in handy18:18
MNZHrmmph I can't find any info on the FM transmitter though. And it's not mentioned on the i2c bus page in the wiki
DocScrutinizerMNZ: /usr/share/policy18:19
MNZAnd the receiver is mentioned twice, under 2 different buses18:19
DocScrutinizerthat's a 'typo'18:21
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MNZDocScrutinizer, ah thanks!18:22
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crashanddieGAN900: clearly, hard drives aren't the issue -- Apple just need to fix finder crashing whenever you're copying from ntfs to hfs+ and copying more than 256GB worth of data18:24
DocScrutinizerMNZ: ask jacekowski - he knows how to mess around with FMTX :-D18:24
GAN900crashanddie, interesting.18:24
MNZDocScrutinizer, will keep that in mind. Luckily I probably don't need to mess around with it, just need to know how it's connected to the codec18:24
crashanddieGAN900: and this is not just a little "failed to copy crash", this is a whole "finder going down, and refuses to start up again, forcing the whole system to a grinding halt"18:25
DocScrutinizerMNZ: hmm, you got the schamtics?18:25
GAN900Is it just me, or is MicroB's portrait detection mostly just a wildcard for any accelerometer input at all.18:25
GAN900crashanddie, what error?18:25
kerioGAN900: beats me, i'm not using dat18:25
MNZDocScrutinizer, are the n900 schematics available or what?18:25
crashanddieGAN900: application finder can't be opened 1081018:25
DocScrutinizerMNZ: yep18:26
GAN900crashanddie, ah, yeah, that's an evil one.18:26
luke-jrMNZ: not legally18:26
MNZluke-jr, oh. But does it matter really?18:26
GAN900Browsing my N900 triggers that one every so often.18:26
luke-jrMNZ: because the law must be obeyed.18:27
crashanddieGAN900: problem is, the guy whose HD I'm copying from is leaving for another city tomorrow morning... I need to copy everything off it or I'm losing data, lol18:27
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nomisluke-jr: it's legal in antarctica!!1!18:27
keriocrashanddie: dd18:27
MNZluke-jr, it's not like they are stolen from secret underground nokia labs (they aren't right?)18:27
luke-jrnomis: I don't live there18:27
crashanddiekerio: no time -- it's almost 6PM18:27
luke-jrMNZ: irrelevant.18:27
GAN900crashanddie, divide it in half!18:27
crashanddieGAN900: is what I did18:27
MNZluke-jr, is it illegal to open up a device you own and look at how it's wired?18:28
luke-jrMNZ: that's different.18:28
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: stop telling nonsense. There's no such law in western world that prohibits me to download schematics18:28
crashanddieI'm comparing the directory it was processing at time of crash to try and find where the file copy crashed18:28
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: true, it would prohibit the remote party from uploading it to you18:28
CorsacDocScrutinizer: arent schematics protected by copyright law?18:28
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: exactly18:28
luke-jrCorsac: strictly speaking, it's not illegal to download copyrighted materials18:28
crashanddiefind -type f -not -exec cmp {} /Volumes/Projects/{} ftw18:28
luke-jrCorsac: just to upload18:29
DocScrutinizerCorsac: so what? I'm not copying18:29
MNZDo the copyright laws protect schematics made by someone who doesn't own the design? (by opening and examining it)18:29
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: technicaly, you're storing on your computer when visualising18:29
MiXu-It does say confidential18:29
MiXu-So I believe it's more or less illegal18:29
DocScrutinizerI say "nice XP"18:29
luke-jrMNZ: copyright is pretty straight forward18:29
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: what's windows go to do with anything?18:29
MiXu-How much the company officially cares about that being spread around is another story.18:30
luke-jrcrashanddie: transfers necessary to use isn't covered by copyright18:30
MiXu-I don't think they care. It's not really rocket science18:30
crashanddieluke-jr: I know, just pressing buttons18:30
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: ok - I get an error, basically - Encountered a section with no Package header.  problem with mergelist /var/lib/apt/listss/  The package lists or status filescould not be parsed or opened18:30
luke-jrMNZ: if you're not copying, copyright doesn't apply18:30
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: any ideas?18:30
crashanddieluke-jr: it's like the guy who put a copyright on a billboard and claimed people watching the billboard were infringing his copyright18:30
MNZluke-jr, ah. Well then I'm not18:30
crashanddieluke-jr: that guy got nuked out of orbit18:31
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: you'll maybe want to update to current OS version PR1.218:31
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: any tips on howto?18:31
infobotwell, flashing is
SpeedEvilmnz - fixed18:32
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luke-jrpersonally, I think the law should make it mandatory for distributing source code for anything you buy )18:32
luke-jrso buying a N900 means you'd get the full schematics of it and any components18:33
SpeedEvilIncluding washing machines andmicrowaves.18:33
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: what a pita!18:33
* DocScrutinizer has microwaves in his brain - that hurts :-S18:33
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: you said you're not sure about the state of SW on the device, no?18:34
luke-jris it possible to do video chat from Kubuntu to N900?18:34
luke-jrat all?18:34
DocScrutinizeror was that somebody else?18:35
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: is there a way to check the state of the software, _version or somesuch?18:35
DocScrutinizersettings - product info18:35
AcTiVaTehzm, I installed telepathy-extras and account-plugin-salut and now I seem to be having Wifi connection problems. Sound familiar to anyone?18:35
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: sorry, my brain has a malfunction atm - you bought the used device? or the fresh one off the shelf?18:36
MNZSpeedEvil, are you aware of any other caveats (like the speakers' inability to handle bass) affecting the audio stack and fmtx?18:38
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: used -- from "About Product" Nokia N900, Maemo5, Version 10.2010.19-1.003 wlan mac etc etc18:38
DocScrutinizerseems reasonably recent, but then you dunno what 'tweaks' were done to the system. I suggest fresh install, according to ~flashing18:39
jpinx-eeepcam I able to update/upgrade?18:39
MohammadAG51infobot, flashing18:39
infoboti heard flashing is
MohammadAG51infobot, gtfo18:39
infobotSorry sir, I won't bother you anymore.18:39
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: that flshing process looks like a real pita18:40
DocScrutinizerit's actually simple, if you don't let it scare you off18:40
MohammadAG51not at all18:40
DocScrutinizerand if you got a decent PC to do the flashing18:40
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: eeepc ?18:41
DocScrutinizererrr, better not18:41
MohammadAG51why not18:41
DocScrutinizerunless it's a linux eeePC18:41
jpinx-eeepcdebian lenny18:41
DocScrutinizercompletely painless I'd expect18:42
jpinx-eeepcok ok - I'll go and re-read it more carefully ;)18:42
* jpinx-eeepc /lastlogs this ...18:43
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: as an aside - is there an onscreen qwerty when in terminal (using irssi)18:43
DocScrutinizeryou just need to download the images and flasher tool from Nokia, and then issue the two flasher commands in a root shell18:43
DocScrutinizererr, yes. there's always an onscreen qwerty vkbd18:44
jpinx-eeepcyea - I get the principles of the flashing process - I'll read the detail and maybe gete some sleep first - it's late here ;)18:44
DocScrutinizerk, nite18:45
jpinx-eeepcOoH - How do I get the onscreen qwerty18:45
DocScrutinizer(vkbd) enable in setting - keybord18:45
kerioit's bad18:45
jpinx-eeepcthe little keys are mental!18:45
keriodon't do it18:45
MohammadAG51settings - text input18:45
jpinx-eeepckerio: why?18:45
kerioit sucks18:45
MohammadAG51seriously, the vkb is k18:45
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MohammadAG51the 1.1 one was better18:46
MohammadAG51but... it's k18:46
jpinx-eeepcok - how do i disable it if i don't like it? ;)18:46
DocScrutinizerjust don't use it :-)18:46
SpeedEvilMNZ: Simply not blocking other applications using audio18:46
SpeedEvilI think that's about it18:46
jpinx-eeepccan't get it to come up:(18:48
jpinx-eeepcit's set but when I go to a terminal there is no vkbd18:48
DocScrutinizerMNZ: if you're going to implement additional controls to alsamixer, make damn sure you add them *to the end* - some braindamaged apps might access controls via control-number18:49
AcTiVaTeOh well, removing telepathy-extras and account-plugin-salut fixed Wifi again.18:49
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: enable in settings, close slider, click input area18:49
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MNZDocScrutinizer, heh, will note that18:51
jpinx-eeepcwtf is the delete?18:51
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MNZSpeedEvil, I don't think there will be any blocking as I'm simply adding more controls to alsa18:52
SpeedEvilMNZ: yeah - I mean the gerneral case of screwing withaudio.18:53
SpeedEvilMNZ: What are you thinking of?18:53
SpeedEvilMNZ: Fullblown EQ?18:53
MNZSpeedEvil, I don't think that will be fully possible18:53
SpeedEvilWhy not?18:53
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SpeedEvilI thought it had a FIR filter.18:54
SpeedEvilSurely you can just do the maths to go from EQ settings to FIR coefficients.18:54
jpinx-eeepckerio: you were right - it's not wonderful, several keys not working, etc18:55
MNZSpeedEvil, for one thing, I'm can't figure out the math for it. (I'm a high school student, starting college in about 2 weeks)18:55
derfIs it really a FIR?18:55
MNZOf course google might help alleviate this problem. There's also a coefficient calculator by TI18:56
MNZbut that would allow me to create a sort of presets and just hard code the numbers only18:56
MNZderf, yes it is18:57
SpeedEvilMNZ: Not really18:57
SpeedEvilMNZ: The superposition of the coefficients is the superposition of the response.18:58
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SpeedEvilUnless I'm confused.18:58
SpeedEvilAnd anyway, you'd put the calculator in the kernel.18:58
MNZSpeedEvil, I have just recently found out what FIR is anyway. And I understand I need to implement a way to calculate the coefficients, yes.18:59
MNZSomeone who knows the math should just do this part :/19:00
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MNZis that a ":) I'll help out!" or ":) good luck" or ":) I do know the math but I'm too lazy" or something else entirely :-D?19:02
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SpeedEvilIt's a 'I have little more clue than in the above sentances'.19:03
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SpeedEvilI've never done it.19:03
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: ok - which of the OS images applies ?19:03
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DocScrutinizerand *VANILLA*19:04
DocScrutinizerusually you'll want the global version19:04
DocScrutinizerthe most recent one of GLOBAL, for both19:05
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jpinx-eeepcThird Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N90019:05
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jpinx-eeepcLatest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N90019:06
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jpinx-eeepcLatest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N90019:06
jpinx-eeepcNOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first, then the eMMC image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image! When flashing eMMC always also flash FIASCO rootfs - NEVER boot the device between the two flashes.19:06
jpinx-eeepcwtf is all tha about?19:06
jpinx-eeepcfiasco is about right ;)19:07
DocScrutinizerit's just "you need to flash COMBINED as well, whenever you flash VANILLA"19:07
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DocScrutinizerwhere COMBINED == rootfs and stuff, VANILLA == eMMC image19:08
jpinx-eeepcwhat's FIASCO?19:08
DocScrutinizera fiasko19:08
jpinx-eeepcso what am i flashing first?19:09
DocScrutinizerSome inventive naming some Nokia drones came to choose after 7 beer I guess19:09
DocScrutinizer*I* suggest you flash VANILLA first19:09
MohammadAG51don't use -R19:09
DocScrutinizeranyway ommit the -b parameter on all your flasher invocations19:09
DocScrutinizererr -R19:10
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: there's no fiasco image actually19:10
DocScrutinizerthey are called COMBINED and VANILLA19:10
MohammadAG51someone should modify flasher to make it display a lolcat saying deprecated on NOLO when -R is used :P19:11
DocScrutinizersometimes fiasco is used as a synonym for COMBINED19:11
jpinx-eeepcsudo dpkg -i <flasher-package-name>19:11
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MohammadAG51--force-architecture if it's x6419:11
MohammadAG51but if it's an eeepc, doubtful19:11
jpinx-eeepci686 here19:11
MiXu-Nolo == embarassing in Finnish19:11
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DocScrutinizerhehe, like Moko in Spanish? :-P19:12
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DocScrutinizerthere has to be an evil spirited dude somewhere at Nokia, inventing all those names19:13
jpinx-eeepcso - when the device connects to my eeepc, what will I see it as in Debian?19:13
jpinx-eeepcdoes it come up as a filesystem or a device ?19:14
DocScrutinizernope, it shouldn't19:14
jpinx-eeepcand how will it know where to find teh images I downloaded?19:14
jaskayeah, nolo is an excellent name :D19:14
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DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: the full path+file name of the image you pass to flasher on commandline will do that trick19:16
jpinx-eeepcso "sudo dpkg -i <flasher-package-name>" should read "sudo dpkg -i </path/to/flasher-package-name>"?19:17
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jpinx-eeepcthanks DocScrutinizer - I hope I got the right ones and I'll sleep a while and do it when I'm fresher19:18
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RST38hhelo pretties19:21
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Corsacyhey RST38h19:22
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vanadismobilehmm, just reflashed my n90019:24
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RST38hCorsac: how is existance?19:24
vanadismobileit's damn fast without any 3rd party applications19:25
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: amazingly weird19:26
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mikki-kunas soon as one third party app is installed you can say adios to the speed of it >.<19:30
mikki-kunat least i get the impression somehow19:31
SpeedEvilI've never found that personally.19:33
SpeedEvilBut I run powertop after every install.19:33
mikki-kunwhy powertop?19:33
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mikki-kunfor me it is more a huge I/O bottleneck at times19:34
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SpeedEvilTo see if any program is running when idle19:34
mikki-kuni think when it really annoys me i will do the same19:34
mikki-kunbut now i'll look how custom-kernel and stock are doing at 250-60019:35
mikki-kuni think i either took my voltages too low for my custom or i dunno...19:35
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mikki-kunSpeedEvil: are you using the devel-repo?19:36
luke-jris it possible to do video chat from Kubuntu to N900 at all?19:36
CorsacRST38h: existing19:37
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SpeedEvilmikki-kun: yes.19:39
DocScrutinizer(running when idle) petrovic borked 1s after start 2 days ago, yesterday on wondering why it never stops pulling massive current from charger I found petrovic still around and eating CPU: 100% @ 600MHz :-/19:39
DocScrutinizercheers powertop ant htop19:40
mikki-kunhm, shouldn't htop be already helpful enough?19:40
SpeedEvilhtop + screen >>>>htop19:40
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DocScrutinizernot really in all aspects - e.g. htop doesn't show the CPU clock afaik19:41
mikki-kunmeh, screen not needed19:41
DocScrutinizerso 100%@??? doesn't mean much19:41
SpeedEvilIt'd be nice if it showed in htop.19:42
mikki-kunat least after a while it could eat cpu time19:42
iPeter-Has anyone bricked n900 with overclocking it? What is safe to use? i self did put 850MHz19:42
SpeedEvilmikki-kun: without screen, it uses _lots_ more power - reven over wifi with powersave19:42
mikki-kuniPeter-: what for do you need the 850 all the time?19:42
SpeedEviliPeter-: Perhaps.19:42
DocScrutinizer20%@??? even less helpfull, esp since petrovic wasn't always on top of CPU usage19:43
MohammadAG51iPeter-, 600's safe :p19:43
* slonopotamus runs his n900@1.1GHz and ftw19:43
SpeedEviliPeter-: The problem is that the question is how many of those people would have reoported it vs go back to nokia and requested a replacement device.19:43
mikki-kunthough 600 is already OC'ing from nokia19:43
SpeedEvil600 is not OCing.19:43
DocScrutinizer~tell ipeter about omap-oc19:43
SpeedEvil600 is in spec.19:43
SpeedEvilIt's simply the spec states a limited life.19:43
DocScrutinizer~tell iPeter-  about omap-oc19:43
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infobotsomebody said omap-oc was  read that!19:44
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: "Nokia's overclocking warning: 500 MHz is the normal frequency. Everything above is not good for your device, even with the stock kernel." -
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SpeedEvilIt's not overclocking.19:45
SpeedEvilOverclocking is using the device beyond the manufacturers recommendations.19:46
SpeedEvilIf you are using it at 600MHz with the stock software, it is not overclocking.19:46
slonopotamus'and any clock >600MHz will wear out your CPU at a rate of maybe 10% per week, maybe faster' what a fud...19:46
mikki-kunbtw, what can i do when i have problems with python on my n900? i tried reinstalling the problematic packages, yet it didn't solve the problem
SpeedEvilIt - TI says - has a limited life - but it's not overclocking as such.19:46
iPeter-Ill clock it back to 600 -.-19:46
iPeter-is 250 / 600 good?19:47
SpeedEvilSome of the wording in that article is overly strong.19:47
iPeter-what is defaults?19:47
mikki-kuniPeter-: 250-600 is default19:47
iPeter-Ill set it19:47
mikki-kunthough at times you can OC, but then after you have done the job take it back to 60019:47
SpeedEvilBut the only people that know - perhaps engineering teams at TI - aren't telling.19:47
SpeedEvilThe same chip is also produced in 750MHz speed-grade.19:48
SpeedEvilIt could simply be that rating some parts to 600 is a marketing decision, and all parts can really go 750 just fine.19:48
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: at 750 and 700 my browser became pretty unstable, reloaded the page all the time...19:48
iPeter-SpeedEvil: so you say 250 / 750 should be fine?19:48
SpeedEvilWe don't know - there is no data.19:48
slonopotamushow soon n900 @1.1Ghz is expected to die, dear #maemo overclocking experts?19:48
SpeedEvilIt could also be that most parts overrclocked to 800 for a week will fail.19:48
SpeedEvilNo datra.19:48
SpeedEvilslonopotamus: I will anse rthat for you if you send me funds to buy 100 n900s for a good statistical survey.19:49
Jaffamikki-kun: At 705MHz, mine reboots after about 45 minutes19:49
SpeedEvilthough 1000 would be better statistically.19:49
mikki-kunJaffa: hm, tbh i've never OC'ed longer than for 10 mins19:49
slonopotamusif you don't have an answer, please, shut up and stop saying you know how overclocking affects n900 life19:50
mikki-kunthat's usually a youtube-vids duration19:50
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* Jaffa hopes for a multi-core, multi-GHz chip in the N9 :-/19:50
technomike_phoneimagine the battery life19:50
jaskaslonopotamus: beware, they might have a time machine so they know from observing the future.19:50
mikki-kunJaffa: uhhhh, and how long should that last?19:50
mikki-kun6 mins working time?19:50
Jaffaslonopotamus: No-one knows, every single N900 seems *very* different. Some seem to run at 1.15GHz very happily; mine doesn't.19:50
Jaffamikki-kun: It's a whole new stack, it'll be fantastic. *cough*19:50
mikki-kunJaffa: same here, at 1.15 it just dies...19:51
technomike_phonehahahaha i know right mikki-kun19:51
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iPeter-So theres no good everyday use OC, than original clocks?19:51
mikki-kunJaffa: have you tried looking for your n900's "stable" lower cpu-voltages?19:51
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mikki-kuniPeter-: i think the guys @ TI do have a reason saying it only 'should be' run @ 60019:53
mikki-kuni mean a cpu which goes to 1.15 is something really awesome imo19:53
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mikki-kunthey can push prices and also get some fame with that imo19:54
slonopotamusJaffa, the fact that not all chips run stable under same voltage/freq combination is expected since they're not identical. but you usually see that very soon (they either not boot at all or start bugging under high load)19:55
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mikki-kunJaffa: btw, i prefer a multi-chip solution ;)19:56
lcukthere are speeds which work for everyone, and speeds which a few dedicated sat in fridge type people can get to.  when Ti and Nokia started selling this device which do you think they used?19:56
slonopotamuserr... the fact that bla-bla is known and noone argues it.19:56
mikki-kunso that there are two physical cpus... that makes stuff look awesome imo19:56
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slonopotamuslcuk, sure. nb, not a single word of 'OC will destroy your n900!!!one!111!!'19:57
RST38h"Office 2011 for Mac (beta 5 at least) uses Freetype"19:57
lcukthe n900 has to survive in ambient temps with a wider range than lots of people see daily19:58
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lcukin hot weather, you hear about computer outages for a reason19:59
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* luke-jr ponders using qemu-arm to run telepathy-spirit on Ubuntu19:59
technomike_phoneARGHHHHH Starting to hate my n900. Randomly closes a web window as I am buying something on amazon. now i don't know if the purchase has gone through or not!!20:00
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slonopotamuslcuk, sure. that doesn't mean OC is dangerous for each and every device20:01
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lcukslonopotamus, it does mean it has to be accounted for though.20:01
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slonopotamuslcuk, i'll easier believe in death caused by overheating20:02
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slonopotamusluke-jr, skype thing?20:03
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SpeedEviltechnomike_phone: I had that happen once.20:04
SpeedEviltechnomike_phone: I ended up with 38 printers.20:04
luke-jrslonopotamus: yeah20:04
SpeedEvilI refused all but one delivery.20:04
slonopotamusluke-jr, i doubt it'll be open ever20:04
MohammadAG51doesn't have to be20:04
nid0technomike_phone: the obvious solution that presents itself would be to check your email?20:05
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luke-jrslonopotamus: hence qemu-arm20:05
slonopotamusluke-jr, doesn't it link to other telepathy libs?20:06
luke-jrslonopotamus: does telepathy use libs? ;)20:06
luke-jrIIRC telepathy agents are executables20:06
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slonopotamusluke-jr, how its process is called?20:08
technomike_phoneI give up...20:09
luke-jrslonopotamus: dunno20:09
slonopotamusluke-jr, /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-spirit is linked to lots of stuff20:09
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luke-jrslonopotamus: is it? :|20:13
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slonopotamusluke-jr, wtf, you use kubuntu?!20:16
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: ^^^ (how soon n900 @1.1Ghz is expected to die, dear #maemo overclocking experts?)20:17
luke-jrslonopotamus: on my SSD netbook20:17
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: answer: 5 years / 2^520:18
DocScrutinizermaybe much faster, as the deterioration rate isn't even simple factor2/100MHz, it's even steper20:19
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DocScrutinizerdamn steeeeper20:19
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, what if it doesn't after twice that period?20:19
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DocScrutinizerthen you're still well within statistics, and also this obviously depends on how long your device actually was *clocked* at the different speeds, not hpow long it was sitting in the shelf off collecting dust or idling @ zero clock20:21
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mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: may i ask where you have that number from?20:22
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DocScrutinizerI'd expect the hours @ <clockfreq> to calculate like that: 600=nominal (44k), 700=nominal/(2), 800=nominal/(2*4), 900=nominal/(2*4*8)20:24
DocScrutinizerrather than 700=n/(2), 800=n(2*2), 900=n/(2*2*2)20:24
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, so, how often your n900 runs at max freq? let's s// it with 1.1ghz, calculate using that formula, come to conclusion that result is >4 years and overclocking is ok to use :)20:24
DocScrutinizerTo avoid significant device degradation for commercial temperature OMAP3530/OMAP3525 devices (0°C20:25
DocScrutinizer≤ Tj ≤ 90°C), the device power-on hours (POH) must be limited to one of the following:20:26
DocScrutinizer• 100K total POH when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5-OPP6 to less20:26
DocScrutinizerthan 23K POH.20:26
DocScrutinizer• 50K total POH when operating at OPP5 - OPP6.20:26
DocScrutinizer• 44K total POH with no restrictions to the proportion of these POH at operating points OPP1 - OPP6.20:26
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mikki-kunahhh, uhm, if i get my custom voltages... does that mean i manually give the cpu that much juice or does that mean i give it a certain range of power it can dynamically choose from if it needs?20:26
Stskeepswe're OMAP3430 though20:26
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: sure?20:27
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Stskeepsyes, quite20:27
slonopotamusStskeeps, woops!20:27
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: that means the cpu can be on for 44k hours in usual usage? (sorry, somehow not my best day)20:28
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: well, whatever. The 34 and 35 seem to be the same breed, just differently selected20:32
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mikki-kunmeeeeh, damn internet -.-20:33
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keriojpinx-eeepc: i remapped... about half of my keys20:34
kerio(del is shift+backspace from the beginning though)20:34
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kerioi added []<>{}|&%$~ pgup pgdwn home end tab and esc20:34
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: yes, basically20:36
mikki-kunwas that the answer for my 44k hour question or regarding the voltage-question?20:37
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DocScrutinizermikki-kun: voltage is what you select for the regulators in GAIA aka twl5030 to deliver to CPU/SoC, depending on clockfreq etc. However inside SoC there are further additional regulation circuits to finetune the voltage/current a particular function block or even pair of transistors is actually supplied with. That's a part of what TI calls SmartReflex20:40
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mikki-kunso if i understood correctly i give the cpu a bunch of numbers but it itself determines then which one it takes of them?20:45
DocScrutinizeryes, that's part of the freq governour aiui, and TI has some code for that, which gone to kernel as sw part of smartreflex.20:46
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mikki-kunso it didn't kinda make sense me trying to find out my lowest settings for my cpu?20:48
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DocScrutinizeralso aiui smartreflex is disabled due to Nokia spoiled something with the regulators in twl5030 feed to SoC, so probably it doesn't regulate fast enough and this causes instability20:48
DocScrutinizerwhere smartreflex here is most likely just the regulator thing which is disabled. Obviously you can not disable some parts of SmartReflex inside SoC :-)20:49
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mikki-kunso that can cause at times my n900 to randomly reboot?20:50
DocScrutinizeryep, of course20:50
mikki-kunbtw, facebook killed my device 3 times in a row while i was browsing it (was looking for some facts for a promotion which starts today... 70% off if certain stuff from acer)20:51
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mikki-kunwas cool seeing and feeling how it doesn't like20:53
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frals~seen jebba20:55
infobotjebba <~jebba@> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 49d 16h 32m 48s ago, saying: 'Well, you better wear a helmet around here....'.20:55
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DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: (with 1.1ghz, calculate using that formula) in my book that's CPU burnout after ~1.3h @ 1.1GHz, using the formula I suggested21:03
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technomike_phonesoon i will overclock my n900 cpu to over 9000 ghz21:05
NinetyFiveNLfor 1 sec? Xd21:05
technomike_phonehaha xD21:05
mikki-kuntechnomike_phone: make a vid of the cpu exploding!21:05
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technomike_phonehahaha :P21:06
keriomeh, keep it at near-absolute-zero21:06
kerioand you'll be fine21:06
technomike_phoneI will. I will show the N900 having a nuclear melting21:06
NinetyFiveNLmaybe it runs with liquid nitrogen @ 9001 mhz:SD21:07
technomike_phonehahaha imagine it :o21:07
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NinetyFiveNLonly from the netherlands :) one Tweaker prolly will execute it btw;p21:08
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pupnik_these guys did a good job with lebowski haloween costumes:
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Weaselwebhow can I setup my N900 to show GMT+2 instead of UTC when connected as USB mass storage device? e.g. a file was written 16:00 GMT+2, but I see it as 14:00 via USB and my system interprets that as GMT+221:19
kerioyour system sucks then :<21:19
Weaselwebhow should my local system know which timezone those dates are?21:20
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kerio*you* tell him21:20
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WeaselwebI can tell my system which time it has itself, but not which time my remote system offered21:22
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JaffaAnyone noticed any alarmd issues with PR1.2?21:23
DocScrutinizerwhich issues?21:24
DocScrutinizeralarmed seems to work as expected (except some unrelated refusal to delete events)21:24
DocScrutinizerand alarmed using alarmd21:25
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DocScrutinizer(delete) or was it templates, or scripts?21:26
DocScrutinizerJaffa: ??21:27
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NinetyFiveNLlol some late blewers are never too late with reviews;d21:37
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Things like FeedingIt, osso-rss-reader and gPodder aren't updating automatically (gPodder and FeedingIt don't even have anything in /var/cache/alarmd/*, AFAICT); whereas Modest is working fine21:39
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DocScrutinizererr gdb21:40
DocScrutinizeror ltrace21:41
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: might they be linked agains old alarmd abi?21:42
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Don't think so, as thp says gPodder's working for him.21:44
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Didn't it used to be an XML file, rather than /var/cache/alarmd/alarm_queue.ini?21:44
DocScrutinizerno clue21:44
DocScrutinizernever looked into that21:45
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mecewhat is up with libsdl-mixer these days? I'm seeing new packages again, and the old ones have disappeared.21:46
secyrita1that lidsdl is pain in my ass21:47
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luke-jrskyhost segfaults under qemu21:47
DocScrutinizerfsck skyhost!21:48
luke-jror at least qemu-user…21:48
luke-jrnot sure I have time to try to make it work in qemu-system-arm with native telepathy21:48
pupnik_are you a lebowski achieveR?
DocScrutinizerhow'd you go to make that shit work? isn't it cloded&crypted&crippled&completely-fsckdup?21:49
luke-jr/actually/… does Maemo 5 have a qemu-based SDK?21:49
DocScrutinizerskyhost == skype, no?21:50
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DocScrutinizerand skype was that BS that uses even crypted and gdb-'blocked' executables, no?21:51
DocScrutinizertbh I'm not surprised it doesn't work under qemu21:52
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DocScrutinizerwhat surprises me though is luke-jr dealing with that stuff21:55
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Venemohey guys21:56
DocScrutinizerI'm wrong?21:56
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Venemowhat's up in Maemo land?22:01
* rtyler passes Venemo a beer22:02
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: strictly independent of my free software naziism, I assure you22:03
pupnik_that's what is needed tonight22:03
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: some things come before free software22:04
luke-jrlike the ability for my children to communicate face-to-face with their mother22:05
luke-jrwhich is apparently impossible with N90022:05
jacekowskiwell, use of any phone excludes face to face22:05
luke-jrjacekowski: N900 isn't a phone22:05
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pytherCan someone look over this post and tell me if the alarms that I posted are safe to delete?22:10
rtylerso far I'm really enjoying my n900 with maemo 5 (being a former supporter of the openmoko project)22:10
rtylerI'm wondering what apps you guys find invaluable for integrating the phone with your linux desktops ;)22:11
* rtyler found GPE Calendar but it integrates poorly with maemo22:11
pytherThe alarm_appid is qttest-asj and that isn't an app that I'm familar with22:11
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NinetyFiveNLintegrate? ssh x11 forwarding nothing more:D22:16
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mecenox-, nox? Hmpf. I was going to name my game nox.22:20
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tobis87hi! I have tested encryption on the n900 and so far aes-cbc-plain:rmd128 with hw acceleration seems to be stable, but i have not tested every hash...22:40
tobis87what should I do with it? talk is not really an option since it's only supported from hw rev 2101 and you need to update nolo!22:40
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marcus_Anybody got an idea why I can't find NITDroid-Installer in App manager?22:40
fralstobis87: what nolo would i need and where do i find it?22:41
lcukmarcus_, perhaps you have already installed it22:41
lcukor you dont have the repository listed22:41
marcus_I've got extras-devel for sure, hmm. Do you have it?22:41
* lcuk wilts after going for a 1 hour walk22:42
tobis87frals: the maintainer from the new hw driver send it to me, it is the same version with aes accel. activated in the m-shield22:42
lcukmarcus_, not sure, i am principly concerned with maemo22:42
Corsacmarcus_: ftr I didn't have it either22:42
Corsacmarcus_: I installed through apt-get22:42
* mortini waters lcuk.22:42
lcuk:D thanks mortini22:42
marcus_Corsac: When doing so, it says I need to install bzip2, but apt-get can't find that either.22:43
* lcuk is really knocked sideways by infection22:43
lcuki just thought n900 was locked up22:44
lcukbut it was photoviewer showing a black photo22:44
* lcuk hides22:44
marcus_Prepare for the punishment of Zurg.22:44
fralstobis87: whats the version number and who is this myserious maintainer then? ;)22:44
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tobis87i have compiled as module: dm-mod, dm-crypt, omap-aes, omap-sha1-md5, rmd128, rmd256 (RIPEMD), sha1_generic, sha256_generic (SHA-1 and SHA-2), wp512 (Whirlpool)... you still need cryptsetup from extra-devel and the nolo update22:44
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Corsacmarcus_:      bzip2 | 1:1.0.5-3+0m5 | ./ Packages22:46
marcus_Corsac: Huh?22:46
marcus_Corsac: I think it's an error I get, hold on.22:46
tobis87frals: RAM:40208052                 LDR     R0, =aNoloXLoaderV1_ ; "NOLO X-Loader (v1.4.14, Aug 18 2010)\n" and the maintainer is Dmitry Kasatkin <dmitry.kasatkin at>22:46
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marcus_I really should consider flashing my n900. Haven't done it since I got it.22:47
marcus_package bzip2 is not availabe, but is referred to by another package22:48
marcus_E: Package bzip2 has no installaiton candidate22:48
lcukJaffa, your Maemo Weekly News link noticably removes the /#Maemo hash tag and has done since you started prepending Meego to it22:49
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lcuk(ie its unclickable)22:50
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fralsMohammadAG51: i heard you love packagin stuff n shits, package a new ffmpeg with 3gp and amr support pretty please! ;)22:51
liorihello, are there any news on meego and n900?22:52
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lcukfrals, there was someone in playing with building mplayer the other night22:53
lcukand a few folks popped out of the woodwork to say they were around similar22:54
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lcukoh frals before I forget22:54
* lcuk swings a rather large hefty trout @ you22:54
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fralsi think my latest fmms version got promoted to extras without actually having the new feature..22:57
mececould someone please point me towards the SDL_GetMouseState for SDL version 1.3? I'm losing a lot of hair over this..22:58
meceermm.. api reference22:58
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lcukmece, thats googles first hit22:59
mecelcuk, not 1.322:59
lcukeven tho last edited2008?22:59
lcukwhats wrong ?23:00
mecewell in 1.2 it takes *int, *int and in 1.3 it takes int, *int, *int. It would be nice to know what the last int is.23:01
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fralsmece: number of times to trout lcuk23:02
lcukapi was updated to (int index, int *x, int *y)23:02
lcukbut I agree mece23:03
lcukchanging api like that is bad form23:03
lcukespecially the left hand side ops23:03
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lcukfrals, check your replies on twitter23:05
meceyes there are NO documentation for that!. soo... I'll just put 0 there in the first one.23:05
fralslcuk: \o/23:05
fralsi wonder if i shipped the 2 latest "versions" of fmms without updating the source code..23:06
fralsi dont dare to look lol23:06
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mecelcuk, well it compiles with 0 there...23:10
mecelet's see how it pans out.23:10
* lcuk taught jake about snapdragons today23:11
lcukmece, thats bad form on their part23:11
mecelcuk, yep. Especially since it's undocumented, at least publicly.23:11
lcukat least it wont compile23:11
lcukits documented in the headers at least23:12
lcuk(or should be, else you wouldnt have noticed a problem whilst building23:12
fralsnice, 1.2.2, 1.2.3 and 1.2.4 has all had the same code in my packages23:12
lcukyou said you were not going to look23:12
fralsi had to :(23:12
lcuknow you have to do a noobmonk3y and release 4 new versions in a night23:12
marcus_After I've just flashed my n900, is it "safe" to use the backup from before? I mean, are there apps included and such? Is it all files from ~/?23:15
lcukmarcus_, the backup stored a list of apps and repositories23:15
lcukwhen you do a full restore23:15
lcukit opens HAM with that list of ap23:15
lcukand you can actually tick/untick any you dont want to redo23:16
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marcus_Hmm, HAM is what?23:16
fralshildon application manager23:16
marcus_Nice nice.23:17
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marcus_Anybody remember which folder the PC Suite saves backups in by default?23:23
tobis87does anyone know what the physical and logical sector size of the emmc is?23:24
lcukdid you just flash the main image, or the emmc too?23:24
marcus_lcuk: Both I believe.23:24
SpeedEviltobis87: 130K or so, and 512 bytes23:25
pytherSpeedEvil: are you familar much with maemo's alarm system?23:26
SpeedEvilIn a very lomited sense.23:27
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SpeedEvilThat being limited to it wakes me up most mornings.23:27
tobis87is the filesystem already optimized for the alignment, or does the driver for the emmc do this? i ask this, because if i would use dm-crypt, it would bypass the filesystem23:27
pytherHaha I'm trying to figure out if I need these 2-3 alarm entries I think they are changing my ringing profile
pytherIt says the alarm_appid is qttest-asj23:28
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pytherThough I'm not sure what qttest-asj would be23:28
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Jartzayet another hotel-death23:28
lcukpyther, that does indeed sound like a test of some sort23:28
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SpeedEviltobis87: no.23:29
pytherlcuk: so it should be safe to delete?23:29
marcus_Hmm, I wonder why I can't put in a password in my wpa protected wifi23:29
lcukpyther, i never said that23:29
SpeedEviltobis87: The emmc pretends to be a 512 byte block device.23:29
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marcus_It wants me to use pin method or "click" method23:29
SpeedEviltobis87: You can never get any deeper than this.23:29
pytherlcuk: thus I'm asking23:29
pythersomething seems to be changing my ringing profile23:29
mececrap... oh well. going back to sdl1.2 1.3 is not working for this.23:29
lcukpyther, where is the settings file, lemme have a squint23:29
pytherlcuk: well I found the enteries in here: /var/cache/alarmd/alarm_queue.ini23:30
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pytheraction0.dbus_path: /com/nokia/profiled23:31
pytheraction0.dbus_name: set_profile23:31
pytheraction0.dbus_args: sgeneral\\;23:31
pytherwoops sorry didn't mean to post with the newlines :-/23:31
tobis87SpeedEvil: yes, i know this. however tune2fs says ext3 has a block size of 4096, so it should write in 4k chunks, correct?23:31
pytherI would assume those commands change the ringing profile23:31
SpeedEviltobis87: yes.23:32
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mecehmm.. what does autobuilder do when there are no build-depends set?23:33
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SpeedEvilExplode with the force of a thousand suns?23:33
meceSpeedEvil, no, I'm pretty sure that's not the case.23:33
lcukwell, now we have ruled that one out23:34
pytherlcuk: what would be the worse that happens I would have to reflash my phone?23:34
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tobis87SpeedEvil: mmh, 4096 chunk -> devided into 128bit or 256bit encrypted blocks -> collected until 512bit has been collected -> and 130k is written... this doesn't look nice23:34
meceif that were the case, we should really put a clear warning about that in the wiki.23:34
lcukyes but why don't you do what the system appears to do - is there a .bak file already there23:34
lcukmece, in bold - with <blink> tags around it23:35
lcukwe can't have it exploding with a force of 1000 suns every few hours23:35
SpeedEviltobis87: It's much more complex than that23:35
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mecelcuk, yeah, no that would be bad.23:35
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pytherlcuk: I'm not sure what you mean I do have .bak file in that directory23:36
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lcukpyther, does the .bak file contain anomalous entries?23:37
pytherlcuk: yes23:37
tobis87SpeedEvil: it is not directly writen to the flash, instead it will be hold for 5 sec in memory, as for ext3 at least.23:37
pytherlcuk: though I suppose I can take alarm_queue.ini, back it up and then restore it if all hell breaks loose23:38
lcuki doubt it will, but to comfort you hold on23:38
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lcukssh root@
lcuknice, wrong window and everything23:38
pytherhaha :D23:38
SpeedEviltobis87: you really want a log structured FS.23:38
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ShadikkaDespite the lack of actual reasons for it, "ssh root@" makes me cringe.23:39
lcukit has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong password23:39
lcukthat I have to manually count the repeated letters in everytime23:40
Shadikkayeah, and as mentioned, not that it really matters that much (with most actively used ssh accounts having sudo powers anyway)23:40
* lcuk even ssh root@localhost normally rather than normal rootsh entry23:40
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ShadikkaUh... why? :P23:40
lcukcos i installed openssh and forgot the other23:41
lcuknow uparrow on console finds it quicker23:41
ShadikkaI see :P23:41
pytherWell I am going to delete the 3 entries, hopefully I don't regret my choice :P23:42
lcukpyther, i just deleted the file and rebooted and got a regenerated one23:42
lcuk:) so it wont do anything :P23:42
pytherahh ok cool :D23:42
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lcukbut it wont help23:42
lcukbecause you need to find where the alarmd actual settings are i tihnk23:43
pytherlcuk: can you post the regenerated file?23:43
Jaffalcuk: Ta. Twitter's shit.23:43
lcukit contains my private stuff23:43
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pytherlcuk: I believe alarmed writes it's settings in alarm_queue.ini23:44
lcukpyther, well its magic23:44
lcukand managed to regenerate them after i nuked from orbit23:45
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pytherHaha I deleted the three entries so I'll see if my profile automatically change when they aren't suppose to23:45
lcukso options: it rewrites on closing the alarmd, or the settings for each producer restocks it on bootup23:45
pytherthe alarm file looks ok right now23:45
tobis87SpeedEvil: is not only the internel NAND a ubifs partition? and for the swap, is there already something done in the kernel for alignment? as for the chunk size of one swap write?23:45
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pytherlcuk: thanks for the help23:46
lcukwhat help :P i just convinced you deleting it does nothing :P23:46
pytherlcuk: I think it copies alarm_queue.ini to alarm_queue.ini.bak and then saves the new changes23:47
pytherlcuk: hehe :D23:47
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blizzow3Are there any planned updates for the email client in Maemo.  It's dog slow.23:47
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lcukblizzow3, its open source23:48
lcukrepository has been updated recently23:48
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lcukwith lots of fixes23:48
lcukfor changes23:48
lcukbut i dont know if one is "dog slow"23:48
lcukblizzow3, it seems to depend also on usage23:48
lcuksome peoples inboxes flow smoothly23:48
lcukother people can have sluggishness23:49
lcuksames as any mail client in that regard23:49
blizzow3lcuk, have you ever tried the blackberry email client.23:49
blizzow3There is no sluggishness in that thing.23:49
lcukcan't say I have23:49
lcukbut with my email volume I rarely try many clients once I find something that works23:50
* lcuk dislikes hours of importing gb's of stuff23:50
blizzow3I love the rest of Maemo and have hopes for Meego, but a blackberry has nailed the email experience.23:50
mortinionly one?23:50
lcukmortini, only one what?23:51
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mortinii dunno, i like how my n900 tells me i have 'new mail' that arrived 3 days ago. it's helpful.23:51
mortinilcuk: bad joke based on 'a blackberry'23:51
tobis87tobis87: so that the swap usage will at least not be worse than without encryption, because of an additional alignment issue. except of encryption overhead...23:51
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SpeedEviltobis87: you can't do swap block writes of 130K, it doesn't work23:54
SpeedEviltobis87: you need something much more annoying.23:54
SpeedEvilSomething like a log filesystem, or a circular buffer with garbage collection23:54
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marcus_Can anybody explain me which one is 2g of: Dual, GSM & 3G (duh)23:55
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marcus_Aha, okay. Thanks!23:55
tobis87SpeedEvil: , what is all this page remapping about?23:55
marcus_Seems like I don't get any signals what so ever with either one23:56
marcus_Got it now.23:56
Jartza11 more maemo-coders23:59
SpeedEviltobis87: dunno23:59
Jartzanext week 15 more23:59
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