IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-08-29

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BCMMwhy won't my enter key work in scratchbox?00:04
BCMMsorry, in the xephyr window00:04
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mikki-kunBCMM: the enter of the n900?00:05
BCMMmikki-kun: no00:05
BCMMi'm running the maemo UI in a Xephyr window on my desktop using Scratchbox00:05
mikki-kunok, then i am unknowing ^^00:05
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BCMMand it doesn't seem to recognise the enter key at all00:07
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rtyleranybody have a howto they've found for syncing a remote calendar to maemo5?00:49
* rtyler uses yahoo for calendaring00:49
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lcukShadowJK, wrong way round01:10
lcukoptimisations comes by changing that fullscreen BMP to a jpeg on the day it goes live01:10
crashanddieI can't figure out if this is supposed to be an advert for mcdonalds or valentines:
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lcukcrashanddie, the animated gifs have them winking and moving back forwards01:13
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pytherhmm... I wonder if I will be able to build a static mplayer01:59
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pytherjust need the audio stuff no video features01:59
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pytherCan someone help me get the SDK running?03:07
pytherI keep getting /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set03:07
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FIQ|n900what is the system-wide .bashrc and where is it?03:14
BugBlue/etc/bashrc :03:15
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pytherDoes anyone have any good guides on getting started with the SDK03:26
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infobotfrom memory, maemosdk is
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VenemoI tried to install the SDK03:34
Venemothis is the result:
Venemocould anyone help me?03:34
MohammadAG64 bit03:34
MohammadAGam i right?03:34
MohammadAGadd vdso32=0 to the kernel parameters in grub and reboot03:35
VenemoFedora 13 x86_6403:35
MohammadAGwhatever fedora uses then03:35
MohammadAGadd vdso32=0 to kernel parameters03:35
Venemoit is /etc/grub.conf03:36
Venemookay, I'll reboot03:37
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pytherHow can I switch to the arm environment in the SDK?03:41
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MohammadAGpyther, sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL03:43
MohammadAGVenemo, assuming it worked?03:43
pytherMohammadAG: what should I answer when it asks me all the other questions?03:44
VenemoMohammadAG: it booted :)03:44
MohammadAGpyther, what all other questions?03:44
VenemoMohammadAG: now the SDK is installing itself again03:44
MohammadAGVenemo, btw03:44
MohammadAGI suggest when the SDK installs fully03:44
MohammadAGyou make backups of all packages03:44
MohammadAGmakes reinstallations easier03:45
pytherI'm reinstalling, but it asked me about downloading some stuff and something about debian etch and lenny03:45
VenemoMohammadAG: okay, how do I do that?03:45
MohammadAGnot sure how it runs on fedora, but scratchbox packages get downloaded to /tmp03:45
pyther^^ I second that question03:45
VenemoMohammadAG: I'm still a Linux noob, so I just use the GUI tool for now03:46
MohammadAGcheck /tmp03:46
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VenemoMohammadAG: so, if I save those packages from /tmp, then it doesn't have to redownload?03:46
MohammadAGyes, just use -c03:46
MohammadAGthe GUI sucks btw :P03:46
VenemoMohammadAG: :D03:47
MohammadAGas for maemo related stuff03:47
MohammadAGthe rootstrap is in /scratchbox/users/$user/home/$user/03:47
pytherI don't think the packages are stored in tmp :P03:47
MohammadAGrootstraps actually03:47
MohammadAGheh, they are on debian/ubuntu :P03:47
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pytherMohammadAG: I am on Ubuntu 10.0403:47
MohammadAGhmm, rebooted?03:47
MohammadAGuse the -F option03:47
pytherno the installer is still running03:47
VenemoMohammadAG: there are a bunch of .tar.gz's in /tmp, indeed03:48
MohammadAGsearch for scratchbox-core_1.0.16_i386.deb03:48
MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/Documents/PR1.2 SDK$ ls * |wc -l03:48
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VenemoMohammadAG: I have scratchbox-devkit-blah-blah.tar.gz's03:50
VenemoMohammadAG: lots of 'em03:50
MohammadAGVenemo, about 10?03:50
MohammadAG12 actually03:50
Venemoyes, 1203:50
MohammadAGcp them somewhere, then cp them back to /tmp and use -c to resume03:51
Venemo-c ?03:51
MohammadAGscript parameter03:51
MohammadAGnot available on GUI afaik03:51
MohammadAG-cUse existing downloads, don't try to download again.03:52
teilzeitstudentis scratchbox still the supported SDK by upstream?03:52
teilzeitstudentJust curious~03:52
VenemoMohammadAG: this is a parameter for the installer, right?03:53
MohammadAGyes, the terminal based one03:53
Venemoteilzeitstudent: yes, considering that MADDE is still incomplete03:53
VenemoMohammadAG: ah, okay03:53
VenemoMohammadAG: apart from this 12, there are no other packages?03:53
MohammadAGVenemo, see my pastebin link above :P03:54
VenemoMohammadAG: I have no .debs03:54
pytherMohammadAG: I run sb-menu correct?03:54
MohammadAGI guess so03:54
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MohammadAGVenemo, you will, once you start installing the maemo specific crap03:55
teilzeitstudentVenemo, well, I'm not using debian and I had a lot of problems with scratchbox.. MADDE (and that nokia sdk beta thingy) caused me no heachache at all03:55
pytheroh wait you said I want sb-conf03:55
MohammadAGthe debs go in /scratchbox/users/$user/targets/FREMANTLE_$ARCH/var/cache/apt/archives03:55
pytherso using sb-conf how do I tell it I want arm?03:55
MohammadAGARCH can be X86 or ARMEL03:55
Venemoteilzeitstudent: I haven't tried Scratchbox yet, but if it's a pain in the ass, I'll uninstall it03:55
MohammadAGsb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL03:55
Venemoteilzeitstudent: to date, I have always used MADDE03:55
MohammadAGit's not a pita :P03:56
MohammadAGbut hey03:56
MohammadAGone suggestion03:56
MohammadAGremove bind mounts before rm -rf'ing /scratchbox03:56
MohammadAGI killed my server remotely cause of that03:56
MohammadAG(/dev is binded there)03:56
VenemoI will ask before trying03:56
teilzeitstudentsame here lol03:56
teilzeitstudentActually, it was my notebook :<03:57
pytherMohammadAG: and now I can start building my package/03:57
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Venemoanyways, SELinux started complaining :D03:57
Venemolucky me, I did set it to permissive mode03:57
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teilzeitstudentVenemo, which graphic card & drivers do you use? And what fps (roughly) do you get? When using MADDE (or scratchbox, for that matter) my CPU is going at like 50% all the time, even if I do not do anything03:59
Venemohm, it now gets stuff from repository.maemo.org03:59
Venemoteilzeitstudent: hard to tell.03:59
Venemoteilzeitstudent: on Windows, it works flawlessly03:59
teilzeitstudentdoes your windows show the CPU load?03:59
Venemoteilzeitstudent: on Fedora, I have tried, but didn't work with it much03:59
Venemoteilzeitstudent: yes, but I haven't really checked. It works very smoothly though03:59
Venemoteilzeitstudent: I haven't noticed any differences on Linux, either04:00
teilzeitstudenthmm. which gfx card do you have?04:00
Venemoteilzeitstudent: GeForce GT 240M, but I doubt it matters04:00
pytherHmm I can't seem to get start to work04:00
Venemoteilzeitstudent: the GPU doesn't really participate in compilation afaik :P04:01
pyther/usr/bin/ line 2: qemu:: command not found04:01
MohammadAGpyther, switch to X8604:01
MohammadAGbroken install04:01
pytherMohammadAG: so I can't test out my arm apps?04:01
MohammadAGnot on Xephyr04:02
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teilzeitstudentVenemo, compilation no. But running stuff matters. I cant run vmware either. both are, afaik, trying to grab some native hardware mode thingy which does not work with those crappy ATI drivers04:02
Venemoteilzeitstudent: I run my apps directly on my N90004:03
pytherMohammadAG: sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first04:03
pytherI'm pretty sure I only have one season going though :-/04:03
Venemoteilzeitstudent: it is the fastest way of testing04:03
teilzeitstudentVenemo, so.. you compile in scratchbox (console style), then run them nativly?04:03
MohammadAGpyther, open sb-menu and hit the last option04:03
Venemoteilzeitstudent: no.04:03
Venemoteilzeitstudent: as I said, I have never used Scratchbox before04:04
teilzeitstudentah right.. madde?04:04
MohammadAGthe GPU can't be used on scratchbox04:04
Venemoteilzeitstudent: just trying it now for the first time04:04
MohammadAGhildon-desktop runs unaccelerated for example04:04
Venemoteilzeitstudent: I did set up Nokia Qt SDK04:04
Venemoteilzeitstudent: I press a button in Qt Creator04:04
teilzeitstudentVenemo, if you are trying scratchbox.. I'm sorry to hear xD04:04
Venemoteilzeitstudent: and the app launches on the device in a few seconds04:04
pytherIs there anyway to see my mouse in Xephyr?04:05
teilzeitstudentYea, the nokia SDK is awesome.. compared to what I saw before04:05
Venemoteilzeitstudent: well, I need to see it before judging it :P04:05
Venemoteilzeitstudent: anyways, Nokia Qt SDK (which in turn uses MADDE) works very well04:05
Venemoteilzeitstudent: its only problem is the lack of ability to install 3rd party packages04:06
Venemoteilzeitstudent: but even that can be worked around :)04:06
lcukn900venemo do dee how it handles them and try adding custom ones?04:06
teilzeitstudentI first had to install MADDE manually, via some obscure console stuff. Which was written for Debian and did not work well with my Gentoo. Still, better than scratchbox04:06
lcukn900do dee?04:06
MohammadAGo/ lcuk04:06
lcukn900so see04:06
Venemoteilzeitstudent: yeah, back in february it wasn't as convenient04:07
teilzeitstudentThen along came the Nokia sdk.04:07
Venemoteilzeitstudent: anyways, the Qt SDK is pretty easy to install with its nice GUI04:07
teilzeitstudentyea...the only thing I had to just click to get it running04:07
teilzeitstudentBut still.. 4gb disk space or w/e is just too much04:08
VenemoOMG! Scratchbox installer surprised me04:08
pytherwhere is a good place to install software / compile software if I'm not using a deb file?04:09
Venemoit enabled the RPMFusion repository and started to install Xephyr with yum04:09
teilzeitstudentinst xephyr part of X11?04:09
Venemoteilzeitstudent: no. it is an X11 server04:10
teilzeitstudentpyther, to install on your device... /opt is always good. just dont try /usr04:10
jogaooh nice, just noticed fheroes204:10
pytherteilzeitstudent: so I should probably do a prefix=/opt/mymplayer04:10
jogaI loved that game :)04:10
teilzeitstudentVenemo, errr.. I meant xorg. probably.04:11
Venemoteilzeitstudent: nope.04:11
teilzeitstudentit was on my system by default I think04:11
Venemoteilzeitstudent: Xorg is an X server, too, and Xephyr is another one04:11
VenemoOKAY! IT WORKS!04:11
Venemohm, it seems to be a quite crippled down Hildon-Desktop04:12
teilzeitstudentyou still need to manually install a lot of stuff with scratchbox04:12
teilzeitstudentby defautl its only a bare system... I had no menu entries whatsoever04:12
Venemoteilzeitstudent: XTerm is missing! WTF!04:12
Venemocan I install it?04:13
teilzeitstudentapt-get install04:13
pytherHow can I get a mouse cursor in Xephry04:13
Venemoteilzeitstudent: there is no apt-get on Fedora :P04:13
teilzeitstudentyour in a chroot on debian, arent you?04:13
MohammadAGVenemo, why install xterm?04:13
MohammadAGuse the scratchbox terminal04:14
teilzeitstudentI thing he/she was talking about on the device04:15
MohammadAGI know :)04:15
MohammadAGosso-xterm can be installed04:15
MohammadAGbut you need to use the numlock enter04:15
MohammadAGerr, keypad04:15
teilzeitstudentthe normal enter doesnt work?04:15
MohammadAGnormal enter would bring up the keyboard04:15
MohammadAGon screen keyboard04:16
teilzeitstudentthen thats what i was doing wrong04:16
MohammadAGjust use scratchbox's terminal04:16
MohammadAGit works the same04:16
teilzeitstudenthad a screen... no icons, no nothing, pressed some keys and strange things happend xD04:16
VenemoMohammadAG: how do I use scratchbox terminal?04:17
teilzeitstudentpyther, on my install, all I had to do was click into the xypher window. the mouse was "grabbed" automatically then04:17
pytherhmm ok, mine was grabbed but I couldn't see what I was clicking on!04:18
MohammadAGdamn, tried to tab04:18
lcukn900n900_2 is wailing for battery and its all the way on other side of room04:18
Venemohm, I added the Extras repos to it... and HAM is WAY faster!04:18
MohammadAGyou should see how it runs on my i504:19
MohammadAGit's instant04:19
* lcukn900 ssh in and shutdown to stop bugging04:19
Venemothis is only a T4300... but it's great04:19
Venemothe guys who designed HAM overshoot the hardware requirement a little bit04:20
lcukn900moh/venemo how about some real tracing to see slowdowns04:20
MohammadAGYou are about to open 80 tabs.  This might slow down Firefox while the pages are loading.  Are you sure you want to continue? LOL04:20
lcukn900the number of packages ham was geared to handled shot up immensely04:20
teilzeitstudenti'm telling you.. the graphics card makes all the difference, if it does not support all the things the linux kernel likes, its really really slow. even if you got a tripple core with 4ghz each04:20
lcukn900the major hammering m5 gave it is harsh04:20
Venemolcukn900: well, a 2.1 GHz x86_64 processor can handle it better than a 600 MHz ARM one... no wonder04:21
lcukn900i know that i mean on device04:21
lcukn900where can be really belttightened04:21
teilzeitstudent.. what?:P04:22
lcukn900if the apt package list is filtered04:22
lcukn900or icons removed etc04:22
lcukn900does it return to snappiness04:22
MohammadAGteilzeitstudent, a GFX card on a PC with scratchbox does nothing04:22
Venemolcukn900: I get your point04:22
lcukn900hmmm icons04:23
lcukn900exract once when downloading04:23
pytherWell after disabling nearly all the video output i'll see if mplayre will compile successfully :P04:23
lcukn900and remove fronm apt04:23
lcukn900would make db reads faster?04:23
teilzeitstudentMohammadAG, it does. If you have a propetairy driver that does not support hardware emulation or w/e. Simply because printing a screen takes the CPU, not native access to the GPU04:23
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MohammadAGhildon-desktop uses the powervr, no PC I know has one04:24
Venemolcukn900: my take on HAM would be multithreading04:24
MohammadAGtbh, HAM needs to use apt-get04:24
lcukn900venemo fapman doesnt use mt04:24
lcukn900i dont think04:24
MohammadAGapt does stuff much faster than apt-worker04:24
lcukn900its just more optimal04:25
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: modern graphic cards have no 2d accelleration04:25
lcukn900just fapman doesnt support everything04:25
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: it's all done in software04:25
teilzeitstudentMohammadAG, yea, but I was talking about the hardware emulation layer inside the kernel. i.e. run ARM stuff on a x86. without having to compile the same source for both04:25
luke-jrjacekowski: err, no04:25
jacekowskierr yes04:26
luke-jrjacekowski: it's done using 3D acceleration04:26
Venemolcukn900: yeah, because fapman's author was a ********04:26
Venemolcukn900: I'm very angry at him for not committing his changes to HAM04:26
teilzeitstudentjacekowski, yea but my ATI card is... well. retarded. if i run vmware, *everything* is done on CPU.04:26
luke-jrteilzeitstudent: there is no such emulation layer04:26
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lcukn900venemo  he didnt change he rewrote04:26
lcukn900and its a new implementation04:27
Venemolcukn900: yeah, I know04:27
luke-jrteilzeitstudent: that's VMWare being retarded :P04:27
jacekowskiluke-jr: software has to translate 2d drawing commands to 3d that graphic card can understand04:27
Venemolcukn900: still he should have improved HAM instead04:27
lcukn900venemo and frankly its GOOD to see04:27
luke-jrjacekowski: 3D is a superset of 2D for the most part04:27
lcukn900venemo it can still help improve ham04:27
Venemolcukn900: yeah04:27
luke-jrteilzeitstudent: kdrive is a "small" X server04:27
lcukn900because it does show that its feasible to make a fast one04:27
jacekowskiluke-jr: kdrive is old xfree8604:28
lcukn900ie to see where slack is04:28
Venemolcukn900: anyways, multithreading would allow one to use the GUI while loading... it would provide a much snappier feeling04:28
jacekowskiluke-jr: before licensing issues created Xorg04:28
luke-jrjacekowski: then why does xorg-server have IUSE=kdrive ?04:28
Venemolcukn900: instead of having to stare at the "please wait" dialog04:28
lcukn900vnemo more deeply intrusive than streamlining the actions04:28
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jacekowskiluke-jr: that's gentoo stuff04:28
lcukn900i agree04:28
luke-jrjacekowski: which is just symbolic representation of upstrea04:28
jacekowskiluke-jr: because some packages depend on xorg-server04:28
lcukn900the fapman advantage is like desktop install batch job04:29
Venemolcukn900: of course, multithreading is a two-bladed weapon... it doesn't spare us from having to optimize the rest of the app04:29
lcukn900so you dont see please wait until the end04:29
Venemolcukn900: yeah, also very good idea04:29
lcukn900did you know ham has a batch job mode...04:29
jacekowskii got lost04:29
jacekowskiwhat is the problem04:29
lcukn900implemented for restore operation.04:30
jacekowskiHAM is slow04:30
* luke-jr wonders when/if people will begin to optimize foreach loops with multithreading04:30
lcukn900but it should be feasible to use same mechanism04:30
luke-jrno reason each element can't have its own thread, in theory :P04:30
jacekowskiand well, HAM should be fixed04:30
jacekowskiluke-jr: wasting of cpu cycles04:30
microlithluke-jr: if and only if the overhead for thread creation/destruction is worth it, which is unlikely in most cases04:30
lcukn900jace ham is overworked04:30
jacekowskiluke-jr: unless you have multicore cpu04:30
MohammadAGin theory, a wrapper can help04:30
MohammadAGi.e, make apt-worker use apt-get04:31
lcukn900it worked well previously with less data04:31
jacekowskilcukn900: aptitude works without any problems04:31
teilzeitstudenterrrr.. what was it then.... some way for accessing hardware directly without going through extra software layers. like wine vs. native windows04:31
jacekowskicydia on iphone works faster04:31
MohammadAGaptitude is a direct frontend for apt04:31
jacekowskiand it's slower cpu04:31
jacekowskiMohammadAG: it's not04:31
lcukn900jace 1 big problem, its not the standard app manager.04:31
MohammadAGjacekowski, it doesn't use apt-worker04:31
teilzeitstudentsame reason why ATI took years to support fancy xdamage stuff04:32
lcukn900we already know faster versions are available04:32
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: DRM04:32
MohammadAGisn't there a way to remove compression on debs?04:32
lcukn900but thats not the point of this discussion :p04:32
MohammadAGwould make dl slower, but unpacking much faster04:32
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: but DRM only works if you are rendering stuff on local hardware04:32
lcukn900mohammadag no no no04:33
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jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: otherwise it will be packed into xproto and sent via network wherever you display04:33
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lcukn900faster apt-worker using less layers maybe04:33
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: you will still get 3d acceleration, but with higher cpu usage04:33
Venemonah, okay... seems that the Maemo 5 SDK works on Fedora without issue04:33
luke-jrmicrolith: that's a practical problem :P04:33
jacekowskiwell, 1st problem04:33
lcukn900but dont expect people ln mobile to download more data04:33
jacekowskiwhy is HAM downloading updates every time i open it04:33
jacekowskieven though it's downloading updates in background04:34
MohammadAGusing the desktop icon?04:34
lcukn900you tell me04:34
MohammadAGwhen starting it from terminal it does that04:34
MohammadAGfor some reason04:34
luke-jrteilzeitstudent: WINE is faster than native Windows of course04:34
jacekowskiluke-jr: when did that happen?04:34
luke-jrjacekowski: it's nothing new04:34
teilzeitstudentyea. thats the point. before using some kernel paramters, pretty much everything in scratchbox/MADDE was using my CPU to translate stuff into whatever my hardware uses. With those kernel params, everything ran sorta native.04:34
VenemoMohammadAG: unpacking speed isn't the issue04:34
teilzeitstudentluke-jr, of course it does.04:34
luke-jrteilzeitstudent: your x86 CPU can never run ARM binaries natively04:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: that's new to me04:35
luke-jrjacekowski: WINE is a better implementation of the APIs04:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: crusoe can04:35
microlithlol, crusoe04:35
luke-jrjacekowski: I said *his* x86 CPU04:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: using linux apis04:35
VenemoIMO, HAM should agressively cache everything04:35
rtyleranybody using pygame on the n900?04:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: you add additional layer of incompatible apis04:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: that has to be slower04:35
pytherHoly Hell04:35
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Venemoit should update less, and allow the user to browse the repo while updating04:36
lcukn900venemo thats not always right either04:36
Venemothat's all04:36
lcukn900allowing to browse whilst perhaps04:36
jacekowskiluke-jr: and according to benchmarks on wine website it is slower except when app is doing heavy number crunching and not calling many APIs04:36
lcukn900but when user opens ham it expects to get latest04:36
luke-jrjacekowski: you forget Windows' own implementation is on top of their native stuff04:36
Venemolcukn900: yes.04:36
jacekowskiluke-jr: it isn't04:36
lcukn900perhaps we need to review versions sent from maemo again04:36
luke-jrjacekowski: all modern Windows is based on NT, which had its own native APIs04:36
luke-jrthe Win32 API was added in a WINE-like fashon later04:37
lcukn900do we still offer all versions of all packages04:37
jacekowskiluke-jr: have you seen their kernel?04:37
Venemoanyways, I'll go and sleep now, so good evening guys04:37
luke-jrjacekowski: these APIs aren't in the Windows kernel IIRC04:37
jacekowskiluke-jr: i mean source04:37
Venemothanks for the help with scratchbox04:37
lcukn900maybe just tips and used04:37
luke-jrit's in kernel32.dll and such04:37
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luke-jrwhich wraps the native stuff04:37
pytherYippy I compiled a static version of mplayer that works on my N900!04:37
lcukn900venemo use ham with just extras04:37
lcukn900its much faster04:37
lcukn900than with devel too04:37
jacekowskiluke-jr: google for windows research kernel04:38
jacekowskiluke-jr: it's old windows xp kernel but it can give you idea how the stuff is done04:38
lcukn900pyther well dine04:38
pytherNow it would be cool to compile a version that can do video, but I have a feeling that would be a lot of patch work04:38
t_s_ohrmf, seems someone is pushing N900 qt programs to the N8x0 repo for some reason04:38
lcukn900you spent time hacking at that! did your one movie work?04:38
jacekowskiluke-jr: there is no NT api anywhere04:38
lcukn900jace 2001ish there was a winnt leak afaik04:39
pytherlcukn900: no I can listen to iheartradio without the flash web page! (that took over 5 minutes to load)04:39
lcukn900i read it on slashdot04:39
lcukn900awww pyther bet you feel proud!04:39
lcukn900fancy offering a patch to sampo?04:40
lcukn900or is it not fully working yet?04:40
jacekowskiif you are at uni that microsoft likes or you know how to google you can get windows kernel and assisting libraries04:40
jacekowskias source04:40
jacekowskiold version of it04:40
jacekowski~ winxp sp104:40
Venemowhere are the icons files stored (apart from /usr/share/pixmaps) ?04:42
luke-jrjacekowski: Sony used it for their rootkit IIRC04:42
MohammadAGthe motherload of shit I can't understand, /usr/share/icons04:42
SpeedEvilpyther: why? There is mplayer in exrtas04:42
jacekowskiyou don't really need kernel source to make a rootkit04:42
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lcukn900speedevil new tip of git04:43
jacekowskiyou just need driver development kit04:43
lcukn900for a new feature04:43
jacekowskiwell, depends on rootkit04:43
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pytherSpeedEvil: yes, but is really old and doesn't support rtmp streams or piping from rtmpdump04:43
jacekowskisony went driver way iirc04:43
SpeedEvilpyther: Oook. Interesting.04:43
psycho_oreossony = piece of shit04:43
jacekowskii have sony laptop04:44
jacekowskiand it's so far the best laptop i had04:44
jacekowskiin terms of reliability and abuse taken04:44
psycho_oreoshopefully one day you'll be burned by their drm-lacing techniques04:44
t_s_osilly question from me perhaps, but have there been any plans to get qt 4.6 or newer onto diablo?04:45
lcukn900t_s_o which verysion is there now?04:45
jacekowskibut toughbook costs 5x more04:45
t_s_o4.5, iirc04:45
jacekowskiit's like 3-5k04:45
lcukn900and did you follow the laest ssu tests?04:45
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lcukn900:) good to see them04:46
lcukn900damn gnite venemo04:46
t_s_oi dont think the community ssu touches on qt availability04:46
* lcukn900 likes seeing venemos useful posts 04:46
lcukn900no tso04:46
teilzeitstudenterrr. I was talking, among other things, about vdso. without that, my CPU was at 50% at *all* virtual guest things used the cpu at 100% just to make a click. with that, everything was at 1%04:47
lcukn900but if someone got it working (latest qt) i dont see why it couldnt be tried?04:47
t_s_oreason i am asking was that there was at least on thread on talk that gave the impression that the reason the dev of a program didnt look into n8x0 support was because he was using qt 4.604:47
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teilzeitstudentmissing a ; there and a "at" too much.04:47
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: vdso is just a way how syscalls are called04:47
lcukn900is there a defining list of what changedc in what qt version?04:48
pytherNow the 100% question if I build mplayer normally will it play videos :P04:48
lcukn900because i expect to write qt stuff normallly and most should work?04:48
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: and without vdso calls are made safe always working slow int 0x80 way04:48
jacekowskiteilzeitstudent: with vdso syscalls are made sysenter/sysexit way04:48
lcukn900tso in some cases it should be possible all the qt4.5 apps dont just stop working and are locked into one version04:49
lcukn900so there is some compatability overlap surely04:49
lcukn900i recall some great looking qt apps from n8x0 - qtablet04:50
lcukn900shopper even!04:50
lcukn900there was weather doofers04:51
t_s_oi see the n900 have you in its grip04:51
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t_s_ough, sorry, that was uncalled for04:53
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lcukn900t_s_o yes it was, but true all the same i need to get my 810 runnig04:55
lcukn900t_s_o which app is it that needs later qt?04:56
lcukn900and have you looked at building it in 4.504:57
t_s_osorry, not much of a dev, mostly just wondering as there are some project threads on talk that would have been interesting to have variants of on the 800 series04:58
t_s_ostill, even if the latest qt is available, the dev responsible for the app in question may not have a n8x0 to test on anyways04:59
lcukn900thats where you come in handy :)05:00
lcukn900it would be great to have a datapoint "oh it works on my 800"05:00
lcukn900btw have you installed telescope?05:00
lcukn900does it work as well as i have seen it05:01
t_s_oi would say so yes05:01
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t_s_onow that it has launcher integrated, being able browse installed programs by page rather then the "eternal" scroll is nice05:02
lcukn900heh nice05:03
* lcukn900 tells tracy to order charger05:03
t_s_oi wonder if the main issue with n800 "ports" would be the ui05:03
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lcukn900in the morning shes sleeping off lots of wine lol05:03
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lcukn900speaking of sleeping i am vanishing.  i spent today with a cotton wad in ear and feeling dizzy at wedding so sitting now has been peaceful but i must doze05:06
MohammadAGnight :)05:07
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pytherHmm mplayer works pretty well on the N900 without any patches, from a quick test anyways, probably just needs a patch to prevent the screen from locking05:32
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SpeedEvilI wonder if the latest one will play malformed flv05:34
pytherSpeedEvil: you have a link to a malformed flv? I can test it for you?05:34
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pytherSpeedEvil: I'm hanging :P05:39
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SpeedEvilI can't find one I have the rights to.05:40
SpeedEvilOr approval for, so I'd better not.05:41
SpeedEvilto distribute05:41
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pytherahh ok, well if you see me on feel free to ask me to test it later05:41
SpeedEvilI can just compile it in my chroot - I'ver got ffmpeg built in there05:41
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SpeedEvilso mplayer shouldn't be too hard05:41
pytherSpeedEvil: I took the latest svn snapshot and it compiled without a hitch05:41
pytherI used --disable-gui05:42
SpeedEvilMPlayer SVN-r31303-snapshot-4.3.3 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team05:42
SpeedEvilI have - and it doesn't work.05:42
SpeedEvilI should get latest, and redo.05:42
pytherMPlayer SVN-r32027-4.2.1 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team05:43
SpeedEvilI also want to get a transcoding flash proxy up and running.05:43
SpeedEvilThat is - n900 flash requests a video.05:43
ieatlint might have one05:43
pytherDo you know if pulse audio on maemo has network support?05:43
SpeedEvilrtmpsomething on the phone notices this stream request, and relays it to a server. The serrver transcodes to a smaller bandwidth version, and sends to the phone.05:44
SpeedEvilAnd flash 'just works'05:44
SpeedEvilAnd yes, this is tricky.05:44
SpeedEvilOf course, the analogous process, but with mplayer popping up when flash is strarted, for when irt's not constrained by bandwidth05:45
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knackersanyone on N90005:53
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luke-jrknackers: everyone?05:56
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knackersirssi here05:57
luke-jrirssi ftl05:57
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SpeedEvilxchat wfm05:58
luke-jrQuassel ftw05:58
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Maceri am a little confused with this facebrick thing06:30
Macerdoes it actually work?06:30
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Maceri keep getting unauthorized source ip address or some crap06:31
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Macerwell. another letdown. was hoping there was a fb client but this doesn't seem to work06:39
Maceri'm curious if m5 is actually moving stuff into normal repos anymore or is it all staying in dev?06:41
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Macerguess facebrick is broken. blah.07:03
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Macerdoes this facebook widget even update?07:20
Macermaybe i shouldn't have made so much fun of the guy who was talking about nokia's timeline when he was talking about social networking :)07:21
Macerbecause right now this n900 totally blows for fb07:21
Macerok let me leave it alone for an hour or so and see if this crapget with no options can update07:22
obsidiethits a bit of a battery hog anyway, i turn on email notifications and check it when i use it07:25
Macerwell. i don't think it's updating07:25
Macerand facebrick won't connect to fb and gives unauthorized source ip errors07:26
Macercan't fidn a solution to that one either07:26
auenferr, wasnt facebrick still waiting to be authorized by the facebook developers?07:27
Macerhell if i know. some people say they were using it but evidently not?07:27
Macerso in order to get a widget i need to create an ovi store acct :)07:29
* Macer checks to see if tmob can send him a galaxy-s07:29
Maceri was looking there07:32
Macerwow. now that looks nice07:33
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Macerbut that still doesn't explain why facebrick doesn't seem to be working07:34
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Maceri'm still reading that first thread seeing if i missed something07:34
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Macer"Error loading newsfeeds: 5 Unauthorized source IP Address"07:36
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Macerok. i give up. :)07:50
Macerthis fb widget isn't updating07:50
Macerthere is no fb client that seems to work07:50
luke-jrbesides the browser?07:50
Macerthat works like shit too over 3G ;)07:51
luke-jrwell, Facebook is crap.07:51
luke-jrwhat do you expect?07:51
Macerwell. android clients work ;)07:51
Maceras do the widgets07:51
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Macerregardless of if it's crap or not. there are millions of people on it and nokia (like always?) will be a year late and a buck short07:52
Macerby the time meego gets anywhere android will have about what? 3 years on it?07:52
Macerwhile they try to stop-gap their dwindling market share with age old symbian.. now with qt07:53
luke-jrMeeGo doesn't compete with Android07:54
Macernokia should just suck it up and just jump on the android bandwagon so they can sell some phones :)07:54
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lpotteryou think android sells more phones than nokia?08:08
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Macernot yet ;)08:17
Macerall i can do is stare at a graph and watch the nokia line steadily decline08:17
Maceranyways. on a brighter note. the fb pic sharing works like a champ08:18
Macerand there is one thing that the n900 can do that i love. the video chatting over skype and gtalk :)08:18
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luke-jrMacer: apparently the Skype part only works with Windows08:38
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microlithskype can do audio to macs and linux08:47
microlithvideo only works with Windows, apparently08:47
luke-jrmicrolith: but audio is useless08:47
microlithaudio is useless?08:47
luke-jrMaemo can do audio to anything08:47
microlithmaybe if you're deaf08:47
luke-jrno need for skype crap08:47
microlithworked great for me when I was in Japan08:48
microlithmuch better than paying $2/min08:48
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rtylerRST38h: you forgot to close your tag there09:59
mortinirtyler: or it's just a really long yawn.10:00
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MNZmorning folks!10:30
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infobotMNZ: aw, gee10:30
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marcus_Heya guys. Is it possible to somehow get the list of online contacts on the n900? I am trying to create a notification system for when somebody logs in to IMs (Skype etc)10:41
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MNZmarcus_, the whole IM system in maemo is based on telepathy (the software, not actual telepathy..), so go look at their api11:02
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marcus_I will look at it, thanks!11:03
MNZmarcus_, there probably is some way to subscribe to events11:03
Macermicrolith: is there seriously a reason for phone companies to charge that much anymore? :)11:03
Maceri mean are they still paying for those copper cables they laid out like 100 years ago?11:04
SwedeMikemaintenance still costs.11:04
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MNZI have a feeling data plans are so costly only because if they are not then everyone would use IM and voip instead of actually making calls....11:05
MacerSwedeMike: yeah i suppose but costs $2/min? :)11:05
Macerpeople do use IM and voip instead of actualy making calls heh11:05
SwedeMikeMNZ: how much are you paying? It varies a lot from market to market.11:05
Maceri know i got my mins down to the least i could and just use my skype calling11:05
MNZyou guys are lucky.... out here (egypt) data plans are pretty costly11:06
SwedeMikeMNZ: that's most likely a political/regulatory problem than anything else.11:07
MacerMNZ: because the internet is run by satan and us godless pigs are in line with the falling star11:07
MNZbelieve it or not, DSL is pretty well priced11:07
MNZnothing political, it's just business11:07
Macerwell. egypt isn't what it used to be :)11:07
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DocScrutinizerMacer: $2/min?? I'd prefer Thuraya then, or Iridium, or Inmarsat. Probably all of those offer better plans11:33
RST38hinmarsat is $7/min11:33
DocScrutinizerduh really?11:34
DocScrutinizerthought they'd compete with the ~1$ of the other two11:34
RST38hmaybe things changed, dunno11:34
Dassubut according to the pattern, rules or as we call them laws of nature11:35
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Venemohey guys11:38
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Venemocould anyone help me with a strange error message?11:38
DocScrutinizerThuraya ECO-SIM ~0.50EUR/min aiui11:40
Dassuyou should try to download the package manually and then using dpkg to install it. That way you get more specific error msg11:40
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VenemoDassu: Unpacking replacement sticky-notes ... Errors were encountered while processing:  /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/qt4-homescreen-loader_4.6.2~git20100421-0maemo1_armel.deb11:42
VenemoDassu: so the error is not even with Sticky Notes...11:42
th3hateVenemo, remove pelota widget11:44
th3hateif you have it installed11:44
Venemoth3hate: it is not my error message11:44
Venemoth3hate: I'm just a dev trying to help a user11:45
Venemoth3hate: why pelota widget? what is it?11:45
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th3hateVenemo, it uses a different version of qt4-homescreen-loader11:49
th3hateso it conflicts with sticky notes11:49
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Venemoth3hate: what version? There is only one, as far as I can tell11:51
DocScrutinizerthe table isn't too much German ;-)11:51
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tobis87Venemo: You don't need to have use vdso32=0 on the kernel command line, there is is this nice kernel module availible witch does this while linux is running: Makefile vdso32_disable.c
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Venemotobis87: thanks! :)12:25
Venemotobis87: hmmm.12:26
Venemo#ifndef CONFIG_X86_64 #error "Don't even try to compile me.. use /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled instead" #endif12:27
tobis87didn't you say that you run Fedora 13 x86_64?12:27
tobis87if NOT defined12:27
Venemotobis87: aah... okay :)12:28
Venemotobis87: and why is this better than editing the kernel line?12:28
tobis87just make sure that you have in /boot12:28
Venemotobis87: I guess that I would have to recompile this for every new kernel update12:29
tobis87i don't know how it is called in fedora,12:29
tobis87yes, as every kernel module... i have a costum kernel, so i don't know... but you can add it to dkms12:30
tobis87Vdso ->
tobis87i would only disable it, if I would run scratchbox12:32
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sengei am considering buying nika n9000 and confused wether nokia is going to supoort maemo and also since andoird seems to be more prevalent12:44
sengeso, which should be better maemo or android?12:44
SwedeMikesenge: that's very subjective.12:45
SwedeMikesenge: n900 does things android doesn't, and the other way around.12:45
psycho_oreosand you're asking in a maemo biased channel, there's a very high chance people would suggest maemo over android12:45
sengeSwedeMike: well, i am just a linux geek and not much into games but i would like to use many applications!!12:46
Corsacsenge: nokia won't switch to android if that's what you ask :)12:46
sengepsycho_oreos: hehehe!! :)12:46
Corsacsenge: what will be relevant is meego anyway12:46
psycho_oreosif hacking is your thing maemo is a little more open than android12:46
SwedeMikesenge: well, if you want a linux based phone where you can actually use the linux, then n900 is the right choice.12:46
sengeCorsac: no, i jusy want to make sure i get the best fr=or my money since nokia n900 and htc wildfire have a lot of price difference!!12:47
yoyohi  whether they are big delays in setting up a public key in the garage? I try to send my first program and "Permision denied": /12:47
SwedeMikethe n900 is quite cheap nowadays, almost half price from launch.12:47
SwedeMikesaw it for 330EUR the other day12:47
CorsacI wouldnt recommend buying the n900 right now, just wait for n9 (or so)12:47
SwedeMikeI paid 600 for it.12:47
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CorsacI paid it 200€ with 1y contract12:48
SwedeMikeI don't do contracts, they're just payment plans.12:48
psycho_oreoshardware spec you can't compare n900 over wildfire, n900 has got more RAM (albeit as swap) for instance and the ARM cpu can be overclocked12:48
sengeohh. N9 seems interesting. didnt know about this one!!12:48
psycho_oreosand it comes with 32GB as standard12:48
Corsacsenge: well, be prepared to wait for few months though12:49
psycho_oreosN9 isn't even out yet12:49
sengepsycho_oreos: thr is around 200$ difference between the two12:49
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sengepsycho_oreos: ahh yes gud point . 32 GB12:49
Corsacif it's announced at meego conference like n900 was at maemo summit, it could be available around christmas12:49
tobis87senge: with maemo you have root access, and you are able to even compile your own kernel modules and use them.12:49
psycho_oreossenge, and meego will be based on woeful rpm base, unlike maemo's aging deb base12:49
sengepsycho_oreos: thanks guys!! i think i can wait till christmas!! :)12:51
tobis87senge: hardware crypto acceleration, is the stuff i currently working on... encryption on a mobile device! just don't try to execpt much use as a telephone from it, it was not designed to be one...12:51
slonopotamuspsycho_oreos, how aging rpm is better than aging deb?12:51
threshrpm ftw12:52
psycho_oreossenge, I still highly back n900 it maybe old and soon outdated but it is still very hacker friendly compared to android12:52
psycho_oreosslonopotamus, you misread me I prefer deb over rpm12:52
sengepsycho_oreos: ok!! so, its really geeky! ;) :)12:52
sengeand anyways it will take ages to reach india! :D12:53
psycho_oreossenge, try framebuffer console splash on boot which I bet no android can do without some third party ROM12:53
slonopotamus(both suck, actually)12:53
sengelol! n9000 was releassed two months ago!!12:53
psycho_oreossenge, then you can also install droid, install win95, install gentoo, install meego12:53
sengepsycho_oreos: awesome!! i think i will try to get nokia n900012:54
psycho_oreosslonopotamus, mm both suck without a valid argument, nice way to base your bias12:54
sengesince it would anyways be cheaper and n9 would be way too expensive for  a sutdent like me!!12:54
ZuccaI've been browsing trough Maemo 5 gconfigs and found one very useful setting there: /apps/osso/xterm/encoding lets you set the encoding of your xterminal, which is useful for people who have shell account on a remote server that has locale other than UTF-8. For example a frind of mine can now irc and use scandinavic letters. :)12:54
sengepsycho_oreos: g2g!! i'll ping u!! ;) :D thanks !!12:55
psycho_oreossenge, and if you're into wireless pentesting, mameo has fully supported wireless chipset that allows you to do native rfmon capability12:55
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ZuccaThere's also a setting to add more buttons to lower bar. It it possible to add alt key there?12:55
slonopotamusZucca, in 2010 you still have encoding other than UTF-8? no wai.12:56
slonopotamuspsycho_oreos, both are overcomplicated from packager POV12:56
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psycho_oreosslonopotamus, and you would prefer what? gentoo/arch/slackware method?12:57
slonopotamuspsycho_oreos, gentoo ebuilds are nice, yep :)12:58
psycho_oreosslonopotamus, maybe they are nice but too bad you're not going to get that in a phone/internet tablet12:58
slonopotamuspsycho_oreos, i do have12:59
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Zuccaslonopotamus: No. I don't have. Few frieds of mine have. They have irc service where they connect via ssh. After login and irc session (irssi) is automatically opened/resumed. We tried to set environment there, but all shell commands are unavailable (tried with /exec from irssi). So the only way was to change maemo terminal's encoding.12:59
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psycho_oreosslonopotamus, ok apart from gentoo on n8x0 project which is still beside the point that it lacks functionality with lots of mameo binaries12:59
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infobotpsycho_oreos meant: slonopotamus, ok apart from gentoo on n8x0 project which is still beside the point that it lacks functionality with lots of maemo binaries13:00
slonopotamuspsycho_oreos, 'lots of maemo binaries'? only firmwares13:00
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psycho_oreosthe thing is that nokia didn't roll out maemo on gentoo as standard13:00
psycho_oreosslonopotamus, firmwares and proprietary drivers, bet you haven't got phone functionality yet13:01
slonopotamuspsycho_oreos, n8x0 doesn't have phone hw13:01
psycho_oreosslonopotamus, and if you haven't been following what I said, I was referring to n900, but alas it sounds like gentoo on n900 would either be no dice or still lacks functionality13:02
slonopotamuswhich only means that nokia 'open' strategy ain't actually open13:02
DangerMaussomeone here has it but dont know if he got all the fuctionality13:03
slonopotamusbecause if it was, it would be trivial to package stuff into any distro you like13:03
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SwedeMikeslonopotamus: correct, it's not all open.13:03
psycho_oreosnokia has their own internal issues/conflicts in ways of trying to deal with the word `open' but comparing that to say android its alot better13:03
kerioZucca: if you're using a codepage, you're doing it wrong13:03
keriovery, very wrong13:04
BCMMi know i just joined and have no context, but seriously, android doesn't get it13:04
BCMMespecially the "no duplication of effort" thing13:05
* slonopotamus returns to his code13:05
kerioandroid is for poor hipsters13:05
psycho_oreosalas there was an Indian student that came in here asking to compare Nokia N900 and HTC Wildfire13:05
kerioas opposed to the iphone that's for rich hipsters13:06
psycho_oreostold him to get n900, n9 isn't even out yet and n900 for now is quite hacker-friendly13:06
psycho_oreoslol iphail13:06
keriothe n900 is the phone for nerds13:06
Corsacpsycho_oreos: why do you think he was the hacker type?13:07
psycho_oreosapple is for those who don't want to know what their computer is doing13:07
psycho_oreosCorsac, I didn't think he was, I just told him that n900 is more hacker-friendly13:07
kerio"ooh android is so open, here, i can root it and have a terminal"13:07
Corsacwhat about cyanogen stuff?13:07
keriothe iphone can do that too, but it's a third-party modification ffs13:07
Corsacmight not be the rightest chan to ask though :)13:07
psycho_oreoscyanogen is an addon which still has its own limitations13:08
Corsacan “addon”?13:08
kerioi mean, the n900 has a system-wide kbd shortcut to launch osso-xterm13:08
psycho_oreosand rooting iphail will soon be verbotten, thank apple for counteracting DMAA13:08
Corsacisn't it a community rebuild of android sources?13:08
keriopsycho_oreos: huh?13:08
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BCMMkerio: there is a keyboard shortcut for xterm?13:09
keriothey don't want you to jailbreak13:09
kerioyou have the device in your hand13:09
keriogee, i wonder who will win13:09
psycho_oreoswell I don't know and I don't really care about android, for what I need, n900 despite its obvious downfalls still outweighs better than its competitors13:09
kerioBCMM: ctrl+shift+x13:09
psycho_oreoskerio, apparently they will track you down if you have jailbroken iphone soon13:09
BCMMkerio: cool; is there a list of system-wide shortcuts somewhere?13:10
keriopsycho_oreos: yeah, and there was a rodent packing chocolate13:10
psycho_oreoskerio, meaning its a whole bunch of FUD? well that's what media is saying13:10
psycho_oreosbut knowing apple, you can be sure they are secretive in their own ways13:11
kerioof course it's fud ._.13:11
kerioare you really believing the media?13:11
psycho_oreosno I just point and laugh at iphail users/owners13:11
kerioso far the iphone 4 is jailbreakable13:11
psycho_oreosmedia is just to make my day fly faster with something to point and laugh about13:12
keriowell, duh13:12
kerioi'm just saying that android is not that different13:13
kerioyou're just gargling on a different cock13:13
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BCMMthe iphone 4 jailbreak is terrifying, since it uses a code execution vulnerability in PDF viewer13:13
psycho_oreosand I'm sure the media wasn't wrong about apple stripping a 3rd party developer's rights just because he wrote a program better than apple's own podcasting client no? I'm sure the dev made a big fuss on his blog13:13
keriopsycho_oreos: oh, sure, that's the app store13:14
psycho_oreosapparently it is13:14
BCMM(and i thought the whole reason for restricting you to a whitelist of applications was to ensure good quality)13:14
kerioi point and laugh at the developers accepting their contract13:14
BCMM(well, no i didn't, but hey)13:14
psycho_oreoseven if android runs on linux kernel, it still prevents you from doing things of your own desire (such as dual/multibooting, only nexus one I heard can do it)13:14
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BCMMkerio: the amazing bit is paying to develop the stuff that makes people use their platform13:15
keriothey have every right to provide you with the applications they want13:15
psycho_oreosthat's apple for you, apparently there were fans behind that 3rd party app which was better decided to jailbreak their iphone just to install it13:15
kerioyou, on the other hand, have every right to jailbreak it and install other stuff13:15
kerioor you know, buy a n90013:15
BCMMkerio: i mean, a developer having to pay to write apps, when those apps are what make the platform13:16
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Corsacwhat bother me the most about android is the link to google accounts and stuff like that13:16
Venemokerio: I couldn't agree with you more13:16
psycho_oreosmore or less applies to google android, want shell? you still need to jailbreak it13:16
BCMMkerio: i used to think apple had this straight in their head, since, unlike MS, they didn't charge extra for their desktop developement environment13:16
kerioxcode is fucking epic, or so i've been told13:17
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BCMMkerio: in a good way?13:18
BCMMkerio: xcode is Apple's official IDE, right? the equivalent of Visual Studio?13:19
kerioin a good way13:19
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kerioit's powerful13:19
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BCMMi haven't touched visual studio since having to write VB6 for school assignments, but i imagine it must be completely amazing in comparison13:21
BCMMVS has a terrible text editor, which is always a bad start13:22
VenemoVisual Studio is a very convenient IDE13:23
Venemoif you haven't used it since more than 10 years, how can you tell it has a "terrible text editor" ?13:23
* slonopotamus used msvc on wednesday. it has a terrible text editor, really.13:25
Venemoslonopotamus: I dunno abut vc13:25
Venemoslonopotamus: the C# editor is very good to use13:26
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crashanddiemsvc isn't a text editor, really13:26
crashanddiewant a text editor? Open notepad13:26
crashanddieor word13:26
jogabut it has an editor, where you input text13:26
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BCMMVenemo: ok, it did then, by my standards13:26
crashanddieno, you input code13:26
slonopotamusVenemo, it even doesn't have error highlighting for c++.13:26
BCMMcrashanddie: you edit plaintext files13:27
BCMMcrashanddie: vim and emacs are text editors, and both are used mostly for inputting code13:27
slonopotamuscrashanddie, notepad is crap. no regex search.13:27
BCMMnotepad is crap, it doesn't support newlines properly13:28
crashanddieslonopotamus: notepad++ then13:28
Venemoslonopotamus: for C++ I use Qt Creator :)13:28
crashanddievim for C++13:29
BCMMi mostly use katepart-based things13:29
crashanddiewell, vim for anything, really.13:29
slonopotamusVenemo, can it import vcproj files? i got ~200 of them here and converting them manually is not an option13:29
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BCMMKDE has really got it right, IMHO - make one really good text editing component that can be embedded in various applications that need text editing13:30
* MohammadAG likes gedit13:30
BCMMsuch that the IDE, the basic and advanced text editors and the LaTeX IDE all work the same way13:31
slonopotamusMohammadAG, how's hildon going? :)13:31
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: booo13:33
* MohammadAG slaps DocScrutinizer, hey13:33
* DocScrutinizer 's too stupid to use rsync :-o13:34
MohammadAGrsync --partial --progress --rsh=ssh is what I use13:35
DocScrutinizer--rsh=ssh not an option as the port is non-standard (23)13:36
DocScrutinizererr 2213:36
BCMMrsync uses SSH by default13:37
Corsacuse --rsh="ssh -p 42" ?13:37
tobis87i use alias rsync='rsync -r -t -p -o -g -x -v --progress -u -l -H --numeric-ids' in .bashrc13:37
nid0-rsh="ssh -pxxxx"13:37
merlin1991I installed scratchbox on unbuntu 10.04 today, and I didn't need to add the vm.mmap_min_addr = 0 to sysctl.conf13:37
MohammadAGmarick kernel?13:38
DocScrutinizer-e "ssh -p xxxx" but anyway it delivers reasonable file list (with -v) but doesn't download a single byte of payload13:38
StskeepsMohammadAG: did the thumb activation hack work btw?13:38
Stskeepslike, the errata13:38
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer,      --port=PORT             specify double-colon alternate port number13:38
DocScrutinizeracts like the local machine already had all the files up to date13:39
MohammadAGStskeeps, I got problems with dpkg, maemo crashed a bit, but I could chroot into 10.04 lucid13:39
MohammadAGbut afaik, the kernel I used didn't have the patch you linked me to13:39
MohammadAGstill got a link for it?13:39
DocScrutinizer(rsync) prolly a problem with symlinks or server rsync on remote machine, as identical cmd worked on another machine13:40
DocScrutinizerusing scp now, will cope with that shit later, when transmission stalls and I need a way to resume :-S13:41
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* MohammadAG pokes Stskeeps 13:42
tobis87DocScrutinizer: -l, --links copy symlinks as symlinks -H, --hard-links preserve hard links -x, --one-file-system don’t cross filesystem boundaries13:42
MohammadAGnvm, found it in logs :)13:42
DocScrutinizerI don't want any of these13:43
tobis87but didn't you wrote "prolly a problem with symlinks"?13:44
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (alternate port number) that's alternate port for rsyncd which doesn't apply here the cmd still using >>opening connection using: ssh -l jr rsync --server --sender -vv
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DocScrutinizertobis87: maybe I'm wrong with the symlink part, as it correctly lists the files, even when they are symlinks on the remote machine in fact. Anyway the remote symlinks would be rather stale on my local machine13:52
tobis87you could also use sshfs to mount it and try rsync again? maybe a problem with ssh13:53
DocScrutinizerscp works like a charm13:53
DocScrutinizersftp also works by now13:53
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tobis87maybe a permission problem?13:57
DocScrutinizertotal: matches=0  hash_hits=0  false_alarms=0 data=013:57
DocScrutinizersent 20 bytes  received 120749 bytes  18579.85 bytes/sec13:57
DocScrutinizertotal size is 14146715468  speedup is 117138.6313:57
DocScrutinizerafter listing some 10k files13:58
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technomike_phoneHey fellow maemo'ers13:58
tobis87you're full command?13:58
technomike_phoneI can't seem to make a skype video call13:58
DocScrutinizer-rwxrwSrwt     5172514 2009/02/06 05:40:49 willich/Unknown Artist - Unknown Album/21 - Unknown Artist - Track 21.mp313:58
technomike_phoneI can't find the option to skype video call my contacts13:59
technomike_phoneany ideas?13:59
nid0have you setup your skype acct details?13:59
technomike_phoneYep. I can make and recieve skype calls and instant messages.13:59
MohammadAGthe receiver has to have a webcam13:59
MohammadAGand version +4 of skype afaik14:00
MohammadAGskype for linux works too I think14:00
technomike_phoneso just to confirm... its not because of kernel-power14:00
DocScrutinizertechnomike_phone: afaik video calls work to windoze skype far ends only, and capability to do video shows up in skype after call established, by button 'video' enabled (talking outa my ass as I never use skype at all)14:00
MohammadAGno lol14:00
MohammadAGthere should be a Skype Video Call option DocScrutinizer14:01
technomike_phoneHahaha :D14:01
technomike_phoneI thought so MohammadAG14:01
MohammadAGthe cam isn't the brightest thing I've seen though14:01
technomike_phoneI have seen the option before14:01
MohammadAGand I usually talk at night14:01
technomike_phoneagreed. whilst using the mirror app14:01
tobis87permission should be correct, but i suspect the remote folder name could be wrong... i would really try sshfs, just to make sure it is not a rsync problem... btw, rsync over nfs does work... but it is dead slow14:01
technomike_phoneI found it dark14:01
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technomike_phoneIf we had options to adjust the camera driver options14:02
technomike_phoneto adjust brightness contrast etc14:02
technomike_phonethen its good14:02
technomike_phoneI think the darkness is because its under the dark faceplace on the n90014:03
EdLina question from someone who has a n810 but doesn't have a n900.....14:03
EdLinhow is the n900 like as a phone?14:03
nid0the "dark faceplate" is clear14:03
technomike_phonenid0 ah my mistake then14:03
nid0EdLin: depends on exactly what your standards are for a phone14:04
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MohammadAGtechnomike_phone, it's either the drive or the cam itself14:04
nid0it makes and receives cellular calls that lets you talk to other people, while mobile, who are also using cellular phones14:04
nid0so for me, its fine.14:04
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EdLinnid0: I know it has good internet stuff, and is very open, but I'm wondering if it is reliable in the phone department for making and answering. That's all.14:04
nid0other people however whine that its a shit phone because it cant do bullshit rarely-used stuff like per-contact ringtones.14:04
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DocScrutinizeropening connection using: ssh -p 2345 -l jr rsync --server --sender -vvlogDtprze.iLs . mp3/14:05
DocScrutinizerreceiving file list ...14:05
DocScrutinizerdelta-transmission enabled14:05
DocScrutinizerdrwxrwxrwx           0 2010/08/14 10:39:42 .14:05
DocScrutinizer-rwxrwSrwt     2205118 2007/01/24 19:49:52 (Soundtrack) - Die Hard 3 - When Johnny Comes Marching Home (Original).mp314:05
EdLinnid0: I don't care about per-contact ringtones.14:05
nid0if you want a phone that can make and receive phone calls, the n900 is about as excellent as almost any other mobile that's ever been made :)14:05
DocScrutinizertobis87: then ends with just >>total: matches=0  hash_hits=0  false_alarms=0 data=014:06
technomike_phoneIt has no 3g video calls / mms picture message support / starhash operator code support (without installing extra app) / i think thats it14:06
EdLinnid0: I'm just asking because some smartphones aren't too good at that. e.g. WinMo. :)14:06
technomike_phonejust things to bear in mind14:06
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nid0tbh winmo makes and receives perfectly good phone calls as well, winmo gets asstons more stick than it even remotely deserves14:06
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EdLintechnomike_phone: well, I have a friend who's fond of texting me mms messages. What'll happen if he does that and it can't recieve them, an error?14:07
Trewasone annoying thing I have hit a couple of times making calls with n900 is that the volume key allows muting even while making a phonecall (which makes no sense whatsoever), any other nokia phone I have had doesn't14:07
nid0EdLin, for mms support youll need to install fmms, otherwise what happens depends on your carrier14:07
EdLinT-Mobile USA is my carrier....14:08
nid0normally if your device cant receive an mms and you get sent one, your carrier will just send you an sms with a link to a web portal where you can view the original mms14:08
tobis87DocScrutinizer: what ends, over sshfs?14:08
DocScrutinizerrsync  -avvz -e "ssh -p 22345"
EdLinnid0: how well does fmms work? I don't do much mms myself, but this guy loves to send them to me.14:09
MohammadAGStskeeps, if you're interested
TrewasEdLin: at least my operator sends a normal SMS with a web link to view MMS when someone sends me an MMS message14:09
MohammadAGEdLin, better than my S60 MMS interface14:09
MohammadAGTrewas, install fmms, then bitch at your operator14:10
TrewasI installed fmms after that, nobody has sent me a MMS after that so dunno how it works ;)14:10
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tobis87rsync  -e "ssh -p 22345"  -r foldertocopy
MohammadAGI just hate how MMS didn't work well in jordan14:10
MohammadAGat least I'm back where it works now :P14:11
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DocScrutinizertobis87: err this would copy <foldertocopy> *to* the remote machine, not *from*, no?14:12
MohammadAGfrals, ping14:13
MohammadAGhow do I reset all fmms settings?14:13
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MohammadAGparticularly the APN, seems it can't autoconfigure when an APN is active14:14
tobis87no foldertocopy will be compared with mp3 on and the missing files will be copied, i recommend to add -u ( skip files that are newer on the receiver)14:14
fralsMohammadAG: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/fmms14:14
fralsMohammadAG: or just /apps/fmms/apn14:14
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fralsMohammadAG: might leave your internet connection settings fubar, but i trust you know how to fix it ;)14:15
* frals goes back to bfbc214:15
tobis87oh the otherway around?14:15
keriomms sucks :<14:15
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keriowhy would someone use a mms over an email14:15
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SpeedEvilBecause many phones do not support it as easily14:16
aepto laugh at iphone users14:16
MohammadAGiPhone users have mms :P14:16
SpeedEvilYou can send pictures of drunk people with various areas exposed, with one or two buttons.14:16
MohammadAGkerio, scientific explanation ^14:17
tobis87i think, you just need to switch the folders rsync  -e "ssh -p 22345" foldertocopy/14:17
kerioSpeedEvil: post them on flickr14:17
kerioeven better14:18
fralskerio: its not the same14:18
MohammadAGfrals, your team on bfbc2 depends on you, screw IRC!!14:18
nid0open browser > register flickr account > upload photo > sms friend > give them web link to flickr picture > hope they have a proper browser and data connection on their phone14:18
nid0mms picture to them14:18
nid0gee which is easier14:18
fralsMohammadAG: ;p14:19
MohammadAGfrals, PC gamer?14:19
fralsyeah, only wnkrs play fps on console ;)14:19
MohammadAGOi, watch it :P14:20
kerionid0: except that you don't need to sms your friend14:20
keriohe'll watch the photo on your flickr rss feed14:20
nid0ah ofc course he will, how silly14:20
kerioor on your facebook pace14:20
nid0everyone on the planet has a flickr account and rss feeds setup, on their phone, for everyone they might possibly want to see pictures from14:21
nid0its so clear now14:21
kerioand you don't need to register more than once14:21
MohammadAGlol frals, unset everything in gconf, purged fmms, configuration is still there :P14:21
kerioand sending 320x240 pictures via mms doesn't seem like a good idea to me :<14:21
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tobis87DocScrutinizer: or, rsync  -avz -e "ssh -p 22345" destination/14:21
technomike_phonehaha kerio agreed14:21
fralsMohammadAG: if you mean the iap, yes, its saved under /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/something14:21
kerionid0: no but most people have a facebook account14:21
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MohammadAGLOL frals14:22
technomike_phonemms has never appealed to me14:22
DocScrutinizertobis87: yup, that seems to be the catch14:22
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fralskerio: im sending 3-5MPix pictures14:22
SpeedEvil5MP is a lie!14:22
keriowhich will be correctly displayed by... the n90014:22
SpeedEvilWhich reminds me.14:22
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technomike_phonefrals - how do you expect to send 5mp images via mms14:22
SpeedEvilI need to do some proper resolution testing.14:22
kerioyay testing14:22
fralstechnomike_phone: err, i attach the image -> press send, off it goes!14:23
DocScrutinizertobis87: I left out dest/ as I had $cwd in correct location, so I thought no dest/ == ./14:23
technomike_phoneAlso MohammadAG14:23
nid0technomike_phone: mms picture size is only limited by restrictions of the mms software on the device in question14:23
SpeedEvilAnd filesize14:23
SpeedEvilSome/many operators cap filesize AIUI14:23
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fralsyeah, a lot of operators cap it as well14:24
kerio~wtf aiui14:24
infobotAIUI: as I understand it14:24
infobotkerio: :)14:24
technomike_phoneApologies then frals14:24
technomike_phoneI never knew that! :o thats epic then14:24
* SpeedEvil ponders PPPoMMS14:24
technomike_phoneBut it doesn't mean the recieving device can accept it either does it?14:25
tobis87DocScrutinizer: it only compares folders, you should make sure you use -u, if you download new files with the same name, it would get overwriten... to have the exact on both, use --del... so on14:25
technomike_phoneThought so14:25
MohammadAGtechnomike_phone, also what?14:25
technomike_phonecould you link me to where you have all.tar on the internet14:26
technomike_phoneI need to redownload14:26
technomike_phoneI think my copy is corrupt14:26
MohammadAGlet me retar that properly14:26
SpeedEvilIs there a share pic to arbitrary FTP site app?14:29
MohammadAGovi store, yes14:29
SpeedEvilI need to register I suppose.14:30
kerioi thought there was a ftp uploader14:30
kerioMohammadAG: what's that?14:30
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, or use Red Pill mode14:31
MohammadAGkerio, pulseaudio14:31
technomike_phoneI think AutoDisconnect disconnected my wifi14:31
DocScrutinizertobis87: not really, I just replaced >>rsync  -rvvt --no-l -e "ssh -p 22345" destination/<< by >>* dest-2/<< and it worked like expected, created locally all dest-2/* subfolders found in remote:mp3, and started downloading files14:32
jo-erlendthere are many icons in my menu. How can I remove them? There is an icon for Ovi store, for instance, manual, quick introduction, etc.14:32
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DocScrutinizertobis87: so I'll cancel scp now and resume with rsync14:32
MohammadAGjo-erlend, icons are .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/hildon14:33
jo-erlendthanks. :)14:33
technomike_phoneMohammadAG - did you link to that? I may have missed it due to disconnect14:36
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technomike_phonethanks :D14:38
tobis87DocScrutinizer: yes, you can also do from/* /to/, but i don't see the reason for it, still you needed a destination.14:40
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sengepsycho_oreos: can i install meego and android on nokia n900 afterwards?14:58
psycho_oreossenge, android on NIT is known as NITdroid, and yes you can14:58
psycho_oreosthough both projects are still very much works in progress14:59
sengeand meego?14:59
ShadowJKI wish there was a way to tell ovi maps which language to display stuff in :(14:59
TermanaN900ShadowJK, you can - it does three languages15:00
TermanaN900English, English and English15:00
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ShadowJKi mean the maps15:00
jacekowskidoes it display stuff in different language if you have non english ui?15:00
TermanaN900I guess i forgot my sarcasm tags15:01
jacekowskibecause then maybe just export LANG=something else in simple wrapper may work15:01
ShadowJKIt's displaying maps in a swedish town in finnish.15:01
jacekowskiShadowJK: it's almost the same15:01
ShadowJKI can search for the name I see on street sign, and it takes me to the right place on map, but in finnish :)15:01
ShadowJKstreet sign being in swedish15:02
jacekowskiwell at least search works for you15:02
jacekowskiit doesn't for me15:02
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ShadowJKyeah searching works awesomely15:02
ShadowJKwhy im using it instead of sygic15:02
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jacekowskisygic search is failure15:03
ShadowJKsygic has this strange notion of requiring a town or village in your search15:03
jacekowskiesspecialy in london15:03
jacekowskiif you search by postcode15:03
ShadowJKbut it uses village/town divisions not even the locals know of15:03
jacekowskiwhich what 99% of people do15:03
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jacekowskiwell here i can just select country15:03
jacekowskiand then type postcode15:03
jacekowskibut most of london postcodes are not on the list15:04
ShadowJKpostcodes here are like subset of subset of subset...15:04
ShadowJKif I find the right one it might include the entire country15:04
jacekowskihmm, how hard would it be to run tomtom on n90015:04
ShadowJKthat'd be nice15:04
jacekowskibecause tomtom run linux15:05
technomike_phoneTomtom <315:05
jacekowskii'm not sure how it displays stuff15:05
DocScrutinizerprod them to port15:05
jacekowskiis it x or fb15:05
SpeedEvilBut tomtom don't srll arm versions.15:05
SpeedEvilother than on wince15:05
jacekowskiShadowJK: and iphone15:05
ShadowJKalso tomtom has pretty funky datastore15:05
jacekowskibut it works15:06
jacekowskiand it works quite well15:06
jacekowskiif anybody has some spare time15:06
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jacekowskithen maybe trying to run it in chroot may be good idea15:06
ShadowJKi mean it's not easily adaptable to "standard" linus :)15:06
ShadowJKit needs root for sure15:06
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TermanaN900I'm sure linus isn't really that standard15:07
* ShadowJK blames the position of musb and headphone port on n900 for messing up spelling15:07
sengepsycho_oreos: n900 seems to be really powerful and maemo is taking full advantage of it!! played with the phone today! i think i will buy it15:07
* DocScrutinizer yawns15:07
jacekowskisenge: maemo is going to be abandoned15:07
jacekowskisenge: wait for N915:07
SpeedEvilI disagree15:07
SpeedEvilBuy a phone now if you like it.15:07
SpeedEvilNew phones will always be along, and you may not like them.15:07
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: what a shit advice is THAT?15:07
SpeedEvilBut do youre research now.15:08
TermanaN900jacekowski, i am appaled you would commit such a sin15:08
jacekowskiwell, N9 is going to be released soon15:08
jacekowskiN900 is quite old phone now15:08
SpeedEvilAs to whart apps and stuff are avalable on the platform. And don't base purchsing decisions based on what might be available on your platform15:08
sengeandroid seemed a safe bet!15:08
Stskeepsfor the upcoming price of n900 its a quite nice phone for the price :P15:08
crashanddiesenge: definitely is15:09
technomike_phoneN8 is just coming out15:09
jacekowskiN9 will be first meego device15:09
SpeedEvilOh - I see the n900 has a 15% cut in price onthe UK store.15:09
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: given the info new high end smartphones of Nokia will run on meego, and looking at state of meego right now, I dare to bet considerable amounts of money there will be NO N9 next 6 months *at least*15:09
crashanddieI would've qualified the G1 as being Epic, maybe not MeeGo15:10
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: harmattan meego..15:10
technomike_phoneI am getting the N815:10
technomike_phoneIt looks epic15:10
technomike_phoneGah but its no N90015:11
jacekowskibut hardware is quite slow15:11
sengeok! is the nokia n900 worth the money considering other android devices (namely HTC ones) ? :)15:11
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jacekowskiworse display15:11
technomike_phoneI had the N97 before N90015:11
technomike_phoneand it was epic fail15:11
technomike_phoneWorst phone ever15:11
technomike_phoneAmmount of bugs in it I mean. Even Nokia admitted it was a huge failure.15:12
jacekowskii quite like keyboard in n9715:12
technomike_phoneOh yes15:12
technomike_phoneme too15:12
technomike_phoneand the way it opens15:12
jacekowskiand way how display is opening15:12
technomike_phoneHaha yes15:12
DocScrutinizersenge: if you don't see why you would prefer a *real* linux device over a andridiot fake, then for sure andridiot is the better option for you15:12
jacekowskiat some point somebody will port dalvik to glibc and then to normal linux15:13
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DocScrutinizersenge: maemo/meego isn't a competitor to neither andridiot nor whiPhone15:15
Stskeepsjacekowski: worst part is some ubuntu guy did and then never released the source for ideological reasons..15:15
technomike_phoneisn't N900 a real linux phone15:16
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technomike_phonesame question here15:16
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: this won't change the maemo user experience to that of an adridiot phone15:16
keriothe n900 is the only other real linux phone15:16
technomike_phonewhat is whiphone15:17
technomike_phoneI thought so kerio15:17
sengeDocScrutinizer: :) well i guess n900 is good enough for me. coz thr is always a better phone coming up! ;) :) and it has all the feature needed. As for the OS i could upgrade maemo on n900 to meego, right?15:17
MNZgosh C wizards are so stuck up :|15:17
DocScrutinizersenge: eventually yes15:18
psycho_oreosdunno about meego on n900 yet15:18
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DocScrutinizerwhen Stskeeps finished the meego-arm port15:18
psycho_oreosI know for now its still very much wip for meego on n90015:18
sengeDocScrutinizer:  i guess i will take the chances!!15:18
keriothe n900 is a kickass device15:18
technomike_phoneThe fail thing about most phones for me is... no hardware keyboard15:18
sengepsycho_oreos: heheh thanks for telling about n900 ;)15:19
kerioit's somewhat of a lousy phone though15:19
sengekerio: any problems with your n900?15:19
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* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:19
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:19
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:19
psycho_oreossenge, the only issues with n900 is that it has small battery size and that the GUI functionality isn't all that great15:19
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:19
DocScrutinizerkerio: you never even *seen* a lousy phone, believe me :-P15:19
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:19
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:19
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:19
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer15:20
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:20
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:20
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:20
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:20
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:20
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:20
jo-erlendbye sc.15:20
* SC Welcome in my Chat ïRc,Argetohu.com15:20
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b SC!*@*15:20
*** SC was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)15:20
jacekowskiidoru failed15:20
technomike_phonesenge - bad things for me are... the audio stutters... it lags sometimes due to high cpu usage... and battery life15:20
psycho_oreosthanks DocScrutinizer15:21
keriosenge: meh, it's not a phone you use to talk15:21
jo-erlendkerio, are you talking about n900?15:21
psycho_oreosyou can, I did, nothing wrong with phone functionality, just not perfect15:21
technomike_phonekerio - haha I use my n900 for my phone!15:21
jo-erlendme too. I love it.15:21
technomike_phonei am on it right now15:21
sengekerio: i dont do phone calls much!! just need it for the linux awesomeness and open-nesss ;) :) besides some phone calls :)15:22
technomike_phoneon xchat on n90015:22
keriosenge: then it's perfect15:22
technomike_phoneits a perfect device15:22
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psycho_oreosinitially it may feel funny having a touchscreen that's warm and touching your ear and knowing that its a linux phone/internet tablet you have holding near your ear :)15:22
sengeso its a true *linux device*15:22
psycho_oreoswell almost true15:22
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sengepsycho_oreos: almost?15:23
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psycho_oreossenge, it has some proprietary software/driver/firmwares15:23
technomike_phoneit disappoints me when audio stutters and when the cpu usage goes randomly high and it freezes up and also the bad battery life.15:23
jo-erlendit's not just a true linux device. It's also ARM. ARM and Linux are two of the coolest technologies around. :)15:23
technomike_phonebut apart from those issues15:23
technomike_phoneI absolutly love it15:23
psycho_oreoslike GPS can't be activated without phonet, and phone functionality is pretty much proprietary15:23
technomike_phoneit does lots15:23
technomike_phoneof functions15:24
sengetechnomike_phone: all linux apps etc etc?15:24
technomike_phoneYeah :D15:24
technomike_phonewhat isn't ported can be ran in easy debian15:24
jo-erlendI think the only thing I really miss on n900, is hdmi.15:24
psycho_oreossome of the poor battery life can be fixed by using power-kernel and auto-disconnect, etc15:25
technomike_phonewhich is why i am upgrading to N815:25
psycho_oreosewww shitian -_-'15:25
technomike_phonewell N915:25
technomike_phonei mean15:25
jacekowskihdmi on a phone is an overkill15:25
technomike_phonehaha agreed psycho_oreos15:25
t_s_othe gps needs a phone connection? my understanding was that it could work without, it would just take longer to get the initial lockon15:26
psycho_oreosI'll be getting N9 if its good, but I won't be selling my n900 even if I obtain N915:26
mikhast_s_o, *much* longer15:26
psycho_oreost_s_o, the module cannot be accessed directly15:26
technomike_phonesymbian is the slowest phone OS and just generally shit compared to all the other phone os's today15:26
technomike_phonewhat do you think15:27
sengepsycho_oreos: hehe! you really love you n900?15:27
jo-erlendjacekowski, why?15:27
psycho_oreossymbian is retarded :) retarded and obsessive security over obscurity15:27
technomike_phonesame here! I will not be selling my n900 at all. No matter what.15:27
jacekowskisymbian was the first phone os like that15:27
technomike_phonehaha yes15:27
jacekowskiand it's 30 years old operating system15:27
psycho_oreossenge, well I love it because its more open compared to android.. sure its an incomplete masterpiece but its not like you'll lose a limb over it15:27
keriojacekowski: that doesn't make it good15:28
technomike_phoneit should be abandoned now in favor of newe technologies and stuff15:28
kerioit just makes it old15:28
technomike_phonelike maemo15:28
sengeok! seems perfect since linux requires the extra hardwork but the its imperfection makes it cool sometimes15:28
psycho_oreosin fact it makes symbian pretty much counterproductive15:28
technomike_phonehaha agreed15:28
jacekowskii'm just saying that symbian has a history behind it15:28
psycho_oreossenge, if you're a hacker you will enjoy tinkering n900 :)15:28
jacekowskiand it isn't just a bad OS15:29
technomike_phonebad history though.15:29
technomike_phoneevery phone I have had with symbian has been sluggish15:29
jacekowskiit was first phone operating system when nobody really knew how to do it15:29
technomike_phoneah yeah true15:29
mikhastechnomike_phone, if "best selling mobile OS ever" is bad history ...15:29
technomike_phonemikhas - best selling doesn't mean its good.15:30
jacekowskiit's like saying wright brothers first plane was shit15:30
psycho_oreosI've had worse when my very first and will be my very last symbian phone.. n95.. random crashes, doesn't allow me to do things I want, and needs signed apps...extreme pita.. period15:30
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technomike_phonenorton anti-virus is best selling AV but we all know its fail.15:30
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: you can disable signature requirements15:30
mikhaswhat jacekowski said15:30
technomike_phonehaha bad comparison15:30
psycho_oreosjacekowski, untrue, that doesn't work when you have apps that don't have valid certificate.. it needs to be fully cracked15:30
technomike_phonebut you see what i mean15:30
technomike_phonejust mod the os to run unsigned apps15:31
jacekowskiand i had couple symbian phones15:31
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kerio(iphone's jailbreak, android's rooting)15:31
psycho_oreoshence there was things like hello ox15:31
jacekowskiand some non nokia phones15:31
psycho_oreossymbian's cracking15:31
jacekowskiand i always came back to nokia15:31
keriosymbian was ok15:31
kerios60 was crap15:31
technomike_phoneI remember when I first got my N95 8gb! good times15:31
psycho_oreoss60 v3 was the one I had, never again for symbian15:32
kerioOH GOD THE n-gage15:32
technomike_phoneN96 was failure15:32
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technomike_phoneand so was N97 :(15:32
psycho_oreosn95-1 was by far the worst15:32
jacekowskii really miss pandemonium from n-gage15:32
keriojacekowski: what game is it?15:32
psycho_oreosits equipped with a puny RAM compared to the NAM version15:32
jacekowskikerio: port of old pc game15:32
technomike_phoneagreed psycho_oreos. but N96 felt like a downgrade15:32
technomike_phonenot an upgrade lol15:32
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psycho_oreostechnomike_phone, lucky for me to completely skip the boat of shitian fail :)15:33
psycho_oreosI waited for n900 and now I have it15:33
technomike_phoneI love the n900. It has everything!15:33
technomike_phoneI bet someone writes an app to cook dinner with it soon15:34
psycho_oreoswasn't there pyrecipe? heh15:34
technomike_phoneHaha epic !15:34
keriotechnomike_phone: adapt the linux coffee howto15:34
SpeedEvilI'm in the process of designing a microwave oven conrtroller using my old phone.15:34
SpeedEvilWith internal webcam, ...15:35
jacekowskithat reminds me of something15:35
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kerioSpeedEvil: but does it run linux?15:36
psycho_oreosjacekowski, my beef doesn't end with having to fully crack it, I can't browse C:\, Z:\, I can't see hidden files and folders, I can't turn off the stupid camera/video shutter sounds (the otherwise lame law factors) and aboveall if I format the microSD card to whatever format is set on symbian, I cannot simply see the files under linux.. talk about epic fail15:37
technomike_phonethat is huge failure15:38
sengen8 seems very expensive15:40
keriooh, the openmoko15:40
technomike_phoneI am just trying the get_iplayer script for UK N900 users for bbc iplayer15:40
kerioSpeedEvil: make the video feed public15:40
technomike_phoneN8 will be expensive unfortunatly15:40
technomike_phonegood tech inside though15:41
psycho_oreosN8 probably won't worth your money if you like linux15:41
SpeedEvilkerio: Sorry - pay-per-view only.15:41
technomike_phone12mp camera... hdmi... etc15:41
keriosend the feed to myfreecams15:41
technomike_phonealso guys15:41
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kerioi want a n9 :(15:41
technomike_phoneN8 has usb host support15:41
psycho_oreossure nice specs... only to run symbian.. a waste15:42
technomike_phoneso that's epic15:42
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technomike_phonen900 should have it ffs15:42
keriotechnomike_phone: so pay the guys working on it15:42
psycho_oreosthere has been talks about usb host mode15:42
technomike_phoneAh !15:42
keriothey'll have a lot of time to develop if they can quit their jobs15:42
SpeedEvilUSB host mode is in progress, but it's slow.15:42
technomike_phoneI neever knew15:42
kerioor, you know, develop it yourself15:42
SpeedEvilhell - I'd have more time, if I could pay someone 100 quid to do the garden for a bit.15:43
kerioSpeedEvil: what's more satisfying, your garden or usb host mode?15:43
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SpeedEvilkerio: The problem is that I am getting the garden into a lower maintainance condition.15:44
technomike_phonekerio - good question haha15:44
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SpeedEvilkerio: And if I do not do it now, the amount of work I have to do next year will _considerably_ increase.15:44
SpeedEvilAnd hence impact how much time then.15:44
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technomike_phonedefinetly best to finish the garden for future free time15:45
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SpeedEvilOr alternativrely spend the time writing and consrtructing a gardenbot.15:46
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SpeedEvilWith seccateurs, tiny weedkiller spray, and a 20mm autocannon in the head.15:47
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kerioSpeedEvil: you'll need usb host mode for that!15:48
kerio*hint hint*15:48
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technomike_phoneand lol epic idea haha speedevil !!15:52
kerioi want to connect my 500gb hd to my n90015:53
keriowait, the 500gb is the internal one15:53
keriothe 1tb15:53
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technomike_phoneGood idea though. Imagine that!15:53
kerioalthough my home server kinda depends on that hd15:54
kerioi should really reinstall my home server15:54
technomike_phoneI have a video in /home/user/15:55
keriopossibly with debian instead of buntku15:55
technomike_phoneon n90015:55
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technomike_phonehow do i access it via media player to watch15:55
keriotechnomike_phone: hmm... cutexplorer?15:55
technomike_phoneor what is command to move files15:55
JaffaMorning, all15:55
technomike_phonemv right?15:56
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mikki-kuntechnomike_phone: mv /home/user/VID /home/user/MyDocs/.videos/16:01
mikki-kunVID == name of the vid-file16:01
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mikki-kunwuhu \o/ "sudo init 0" in the xterm of the n900 and it really dies like twice as fast \o/16:04
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crashanddieyou know you've browsed the web too much when you see this in the article description: "Even fits well underneath tactical vests or concealment clothing."16:15
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mikki-kunthat's kind of my everyday article description16:16
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mikki-kunyay, yet again a reset n900... i should keep track on when i flash it16:18
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Macernow wtf17:04
Macerthe email app will open an email then kick you back to the list17:04
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Macerwhat is the stock m5 email app called?17:05
Macermaybe i can just delete the config dir and start from scratch17:05
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Venemoit is called modest17:07
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Venemoquite buggy in PR 1.2, but MohammadAG51 has a build of the most current patches17:07
Macerok wtf17:09
smharit is less than modest :-)17:09
Macerit downloads the list of emails..17:09
Macerthen when i try to open one it tries.. but doesn't open it and goes back to the list17:09
Macerdevice storage full.. wtf?!17:09
smharuntil a good email client designed for or well ported to N900, I will be using claws-email with all its good and bad issues17:10
Maceri'm trying ot find out how the hell it's full17:10
Maceri tried ot make a new msg17:10
Macermake a new email and it is telling me the device is full :)17:11
Macertmpfs is full i guess17:11
slonopotamusthe question is which device?17:11
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Venemoyou can use webmail if you don't want to bother with modest17:12
Maceri want an actual client17:13
Macerbut this is making no sense17:13
Maceri have no idea why it won't allow me to open the emails blah. let me try to find another email app17:13
VenemoMacer: contact MohammadAG, he has a newer package of modest17:14
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trumeeguys, have a funny problem.17:17
mnzakitrumee, all n900 problems are funny17:17
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trumeeThe media player in N900 doesnt connect to internet radio but mplayer plays it fine17:18
trumeeNeither does mediabox.17:18
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lcukheya folks17:19
MNZlcuk, hola17:19
* lcuk has dull ringing in ear17:20
lcukbut no pain or dizzyness \o/17:20
trumeecan somebody please try the above url in N900 media player.17:20
MNZlcuk, play some neverball and report back17:20
trumeeit works in mplayer. Media player just keeps on connecting17:21
crashanddiesmhar: I'm tempted to rename the email client to "dbshyntago"17:21
crashanddie"Don't be so humble, you're not that good"17:22
smharcrashanddie, :-)17:22
MNZcrashanddie, DB Shine ta go ?17:22
smharI liked the 'shy' part17:23
MNZtrumee, works here17:24
Macerugh this is like the twilight zone17:25
MNZtrumee, crap music though.17:25
Macerlet me see if claws works17:25
Maceri tried trojita and it's flakey too17:25
trumeeMNZ, thanks17:25
trumeefor testing17:25
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lcukmnz lol17:30
lcukcrashanddie, i think modest is a good name, it has corner cases like a lot of things17:31
crashanddielcuk: i know, i know, I'm not bashing modest at all17:31
crashanddielcuk: wasn't it on the n900 that everyone bashed the built-in email client, and modest was the saviour?17:31
infobotcrashanddie meant: lcuk: wasn't it on the n8x0 that everyone bashed the built-in email client, and modest was the saviour?17:32
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SpeedEvilI've noticed no patches to modest to actually fix stuff though.17:34
SpeedEvilBy 'the community'17:34
SpeedEvilBut I haven't looked more than cursorily.17:34
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lcukSpeedEvil, in a way, its like all OSS17:35
lcukor even closed stuff17:35
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lcukthere is a hill to climb17:35
lcukto get to know the codebase before someone is proficient at it17:36
lcukand can actively offer patches17:36
lcukmodest appears maintained17:36
lcukby good active devs (go look on gitorious)17:36
SpeedEvilOf course17:36
SpeedEvilFor any other than trivial patches.17:36
lcukand like any maintained software, offering good bugs with lots of info allows the devs to cure17:36
lcukpatches like what?17:37
Macerwell. claws it is17:37
Maceri wonder if there is some type of way i can get claws to notify even when it isn't open17:37
lcukhmm typos are harder usually17:37
SpeedEvil/* This is a coment*/17:37
lcuksince the code is translated17:37
lcukthe source itself does not contain real labels17:37
SpeedEvilfor example17:37
lcuktypos in comments?17:37
SpeedEvilAn example of a clear error that has no chance of being correct, and can be certainly fixed with no knowledge.17:38
SpeedEvilIf that patch is useful is a seperate question of course.17:38
lcukif you know of one, please post it17:38
lcukbut most bugs I have seen arent17:38
Macerhm. does anybody kno wif there is a way to get claws to notify you without being open that there is new email?17:38
SpeedEvilMost bugs need more than trivial reading of one function in isolation.17:39
Maceror to get maemo to open claws instead of modest ?17:39
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lcukSpeedEvil, yup17:39
lcukMacer, modest is open though17:39
lcukthats the diff17:39
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Macerjust don't see it running in the background or something?17:39
MohammadAGnice contacts plugins in devel17:39
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SpeedEvil - for example.17:40
povbotBug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats17:40
Macerlcuk: heh. no .deb?17:40
SpeedEvilI tried to follow the call-chain - but my head exploded.17:41
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lcukMacer, no gitorious service offers debs17:41
lcukerr git host17:41
lcukits perhaps an issue17:41
MohammadAGI don't see a reason it should17:41
lcukit would be nice for git places to dynamically build and offer various final packages ;017:41
lcukbut that becomes hairy17:41
lcukespecially when certain git hosts mis identify the type of project17:42
MohammadAGthat's what the SSU is for :P17:42
* lcuk still withers when github identifies liqbase-playground as visual basic17:42
lcuk( )17:43
MohammadAGneed help with GPG signing, or I could announce the SSU as terminal only17:43
lcukMohammadAG, thats hardly seamless17:43
lcukyour repo with the latest hildon libraries is cool :)17:44
VenemoMohammadAG: that would become SU, but not SSU17:44
Macerwell. claws will do. i'll just keep claws running17:45
lcukSSU*    * if you are a gnu hacker with qualifications in ancient unix runes and mystic practices but if you are my mum or someone wait a bit longer whilst we discuss and sort out things17:45
Maceri sure wish there were a way to have it run in the background and open itself17:45
Maceror to force maemo to use claws instead of modest17:45
Macerlike for the contact integration etc17:45
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Macerok. that's it. i tried. but. maemo is shit. you guys put a  lot of work in it. but other than the ability to act as a "linux distro" it is total garbage as a phone OS17:51
lcukmacer have you ever found a handheld system you are happy with?17:52
lcukI have at various times in the last couple of years heard you rail on every OS17:53
Macersymbian on the n9517:53
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lcukMacer, symbian emulator on n900?17:53
lcukits open source?17:53
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Macerandroid was ok after cyanogen but the jabber clients sucked17:53
* lcuk wants original nokia bw emualtor with snake17:53
lcukfull complete phone inside phone17:54
muellisoftthe beauty of Maemo is most of the things are free. You can freely modify the software if you don't like it. Even better: You can redistribute it as well :-)17:54
Macerlcuk: does it do portrait mode?17:54
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lcuki would not want to lick a phone17:54
lcukMacer, it is portrait mode!17:54
Macerdoes it do landscape?17:54
lcuki mean original style nokia17:54
lcuka real nokia 3210 active picture17:55
Maceri'm ordering my galaxy-s now ;)17:55
lcukpush button etc17:55
Macerlcuk: android started out pretty bad but at least now it is incredibly functional. maemo doesn't seem to have taken that path17:55
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VenemoMacer: people will hate you if you relace the N900 with an Android crap17:56
Macerwell. i installed nit-droid on it ;)17:56
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Macerif all the hardware worked then i would wipe maemo altogether.. but nokia prevents android from working correctly on any of their phones because they are scared people will realize that running a nokia based phone os isn't as fulfilling :)17:57
MohammadAGI wonder if icd2 can be replaced with network-manager17:57
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cehtehtake one give one .. pile of shit?17:58
VenemoMacer: haha!17:59
VenemoMacer: what do you have against Maemo?17:59
TermanaN900lcuk, looks like someone forgot to have their milk and cookies17:59
lcukhmm TermanaN900 ?17:59
lcuki just had a glass of milk18:00
lcukbut yes, no cookies18:00
Muellihah Macer! That's a stupid thing to say, because Nokia *does* push all it's Linux patches upstream. Google doesn't18:00
lcukgotta watch my sugar intake18:00
TermanaN900lcuk, actually i meant Macer18:00
MohammadAGffs school tomorrow :(18:00
lcuklol TermanaN900 then that someone is YOU!18:00
VenemoMuelli: yeah... so, Android does use Nokia's patches, too!18:00
TermanaN900lcuk, no i just had mine. lol :P18:01
jacekowskii'm evil18:01
jacekowskiit tooke them only a week to realise that this modified fmtxd doesn't really work18:01
jacekowskiunless you modify kernel module as well18:01
jacekowskior change region18:01
jacekowskior something18:01
nid0placebo effect, "ooh its new and shiny and an update, clearly its better!"18:02
jacekowskibut people reported that it's working18:02
TermanaN900jacekowski, looks like your still figuring it out as well18:02
jacekowskiTermanaN900: ?18:02
jacekowskino, my modified fmtx was supposed to only solve reduced power problem18:02
nid0I wasnt someone who tried it, when you say doesnt work does it just not do anything or not increase transmission power/frequency range?18:03
jacekowskibut somebody asked in comments to remove frequency limit18:03
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jacekowskinid0: it increases power18:03
TermanaN900jacekowski, what im saying is, you just gave 3 different solutions, one of those being, do "whatever"18:03
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TermanaN900jacekowski, so you must still be figuring it out :P18:04
jacekowskithere are different options18:04
jacekowskii just named 218:04
TermanaN900whatever is not an option then?18:04
jacekowskiit's metaoption18:04
* MohammadAG flushes TermanaN900 18:05
jacekowskinid0: thing is that people reported that they had working lower frequencies18:05
jacekowskinid0: and lower frequencies only work if you change region to 418:05
lcukhey guys.  a couple of weeks ago somebody came in the chan18:06
lcukasking about getting "sudser" working on the n90018:06
lcukhe had used it happily in the past18:07
lcukso I did a quick smoke test18:07
lcukand then mailed the maintainer18:07
lcukwho put it for chinook and diablo18:07
lcukis it possible those who can to just test this18:07
lcukand the guy will submit to the fremantle queue once tests are done18:07
lcuksudser enables normal "sudo blah" syntax from the terminal18:08
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jacekowskithat's evil18:08
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jacekowskii mean it's security risk18:09
lcukno, releasing binaries that you don't own is evil18:09
lcukhis work is something to make life simpler and more normal for folks18:09
MohammadAGAndrew doesn't have an N900 afaik18:09
lcukexactly, so we need to check it for him :)18:09
jacekowskisudo gainroot is more secure18:09
MohammadAGwhich is why he let me take over
lcukahh MohammadAG interesting18:10
lcukwould you want to talk to him about taking this package too?18:10
MohammadAGI requested to be a maintainer18:10
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MohammadAGbut sudser doesn't have one18:10
lcukyeah its not been submitted to n900, it was just on the back of a couple of users asking18:11
MohammadAGso does it work?18:11
lcukworked for me, but thats not the same18:12
MohammadAGdoes your device boot up18:12
MohammadAGdoes it take long to install?18:12
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lcukno its a tiny package18:13
MohammadAGoh, GUI dialog18:13
MohammadAGlcuk, did you set a password?18:14
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lcukhow would I tell, I probably did18:15
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lcukhold on18:15
lcuksudo ifconfig18:16
lcukdoesnt ask for a password18:16
lcukfrom x term18:16
lcukso no, I don't think I did18:16
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jacekowskilcuk: well, what i'm doing is not even an eula breach18:20
lcukjacekowski, why would you think I meant you?18:21
lcukI merely mentioned something I thought that was evil18:21
jacekowskibecause last time you mentioned it18:21
MNZlcuk, try sudo -K; sudo ifconfig18:21
lcukmnz, what would that do18:21
jacekowskibut since then i had time to ask questions18:22
MNZsudo -K = remove the sudo cache. See if it asks for a password now18:22
lcukno password still18:23
lcukjacekowski, have you asked the people who own the binary?18:23
lcukaren't those the ones who matter?18:23
jacekowskii asked a solicitor18:23
jacekowskiand british law is one that matters18:24
jacekowskiin my case18:24
jacekowski(d) You may not reverse engineer, reverse compile, disassemble, or18:24
jacekowskiotherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software (except18:24
jacekowskito the extent that this restriction is expressly prohibited by law)18:24
jacekowskior create derivative works based on the Software.18:24
jacekowskithing in bracket is the most important part of it18:24
lcukwow, i like your style.  does that mean you can do that with anything?18:25
DocScrutinizerlcuk: sudser is really a *bad* idea for maintaining a concerned bout security system18:26
lcukDocScrutinizer, sure18:26
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: sudser is about as dead stupid simple as *#18:26
lcukbut so is sudo gainroot18:26
lcukor any of the other various methods18:26
lcukor installing debs18:26
jacekowskilcuk: distribution part of it is little bit illegal18:26
lcuk" a little bit "18:27
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jacekowskithing is18:27
jacekowskithat if you read eula18:27
jacekowskiNokia grants to You non-exclusive, non-transferable end-user rights18:27
jacekowskito install the Software on the local hard disk(s) or other permanent18:27
jacekowskistorage media of one computer and use the Software on a single computer18:27
jacekowskior terminal at a time.18:27
DocScrutinizermy suggestion back when that guy came here asking bout sudser was to remove the NOPASSWD property from sudo gainroot sudorers config, as well as from sudsers sudoers config18:27
jacekowskinothing about phone itself18:28
DocScrutinizerand create a root password like ssh install does18:28
jacekowskiand other thing is that i never accepted that eula18:28
jacekowskii bought phone with software already on it18:28
jacekowskiand then upgraded it18:28
jacekowskiand it never asked me to accept eula18:28
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slonopotamusjacekowski, aint phone a computer iself? hint: you can accept eula once per each device18:29
slonopotamusoh, you don't want to18:30
TermanaN900I see18:30
jacekowskiso that part is little bit fuzzy18:30
TermanaN900Now we need a court case to determine if the n900 is a phone or a computer18:30
jacekowskiaccording to nokia it's a tablet18:30
ShadowVXphone == computer nowadays18:31
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'm temped to create a *pkg* (OMFG) to remove NOPASSWD from quite a number of lines in /etc/sudoers rsp /etc/sudoers.d/*18:31
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nid0well, nokia's n900 subsite does clearly define it as a computer many times18:31
* lcuk leaves for the afternoon, this is just too crazy to comprehend, perhaps tomorrow it will make more sense18:32
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MohammadAG51lcuk, sudser command in terminal to set a pass for18:32
MohammadAG51sudo... meh18:32
TermanaN900He forgot his biscuits18:33
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: same pkg could nuke the idiotic sudoers-update and instead include an #includedir /etc/sudoers.d  line to /etc/sudoers18:33
jacekowskihmm, how do i boot phone via usb18:34
jacekowskiwith flasher18:34
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, too late, he left18:34
jacekowskii mean different kernel18:34
MohammadAG51flasher-3.5 -k image.bin -l -b18:34
jacekowskii would need to have modules already in /lib/modules18:34
cehtehDocScrutinizer: nice idea18:34
MohammadAG51probably, unless you select a different root=18:34
TermanaN900jacekowski, yes18:34
MohammadAG51using -b18:35
MohammadAG51 -b, --boot[=ARG]            Boot the kernel with optional cmdline18:35
cehtehi considered to hack that on my device, but a package would be certainly of more value (for others)18:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: yeah! I mean "update-sudoers" - what a weird shit is THAT?18:35
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MohammadAG51it adds lines in /etc/sudoers.d to /etc/sudoers18:35
TermanaN900MohammadAG51, how would that help? He would still need to have modules located in the rootfs18:35
TermanaN900where ever it might be18:36
MohammadAG51yes, but not the default one18:36
cehtehnever looked at that .. we already concluded that the security model of the device doesnt really shine (what security?) .. right?18:36
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: I *know* _what_ it does, I just have no fsckng clue _why_ it does18:36
MohammadAG51to allow apps to run with sudo without a pass18:36
jacekowskim-shield ( ARM trustzone ) has so many features to make this device really secure18:36
Venemowhat is the difference between 'su' and 'su -' ?18:36
MohammadAG51a method similar to gksudo would be better18:36
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jacekowskibut nobody bothered to use it18:36
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: stop talking to me like I am an idiot, please18:37
johnsqVenemo: man su18:37
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, lol18:37
cehtehjacekowski: even the most basic unix security things are not deployed18:37
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: RTFM!!! man 5 sudoers18:37
cehtehi am rather wondering why there is a user and the whole userland doesnt run as root at first place :P18:37
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, i'm not the one asking o_O18:38
jacekowskicehteh: oom would go crazy if that would be the case18:38
cehtehyou found the reason!18:38
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: then stop answering as long as you have no idea about what's been the question18:38
Venemojohnsq: hardly workable on Windows :)18:39
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, bad day?18:39
GAN900Hush, children.18:39
nid0Venemo: not entirely true, just type it into google instead of shell18:39
johnsqVenemo: then use a real os or google man su18:39
TermanaN900now we get to listen to the teachings of GAN18:39
TermanaN900GAN900, we're waiting18:40
DocScrutinizerGAN900: sorry, but >>[2010-08-29 17:33:51] <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: same pkg could nuke the idiotic sudoers-update and instead include an #includedir /etc/sudoers.d  line to /etc/sudoers   >>[2010-08-29 17:35:29] <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: yeah! I mean "update-sudoers" - what a weird shit is THAT?   >>[2010-08-29 17:35:52] <MohammadAG51> it adds lines in /etc/sudoers.d to /etc/sudoers    >>[2010-08-29 17:36:25] <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: I *18:41
DocScrutinizerknow* _what_ it does, I just have no fsckng clue _why_ it does    >>[2010-08-29 17:36:38] <MohammadAG51> to allow apps to run with sudo without a pass18:41
TermanaN900well apparently not him18:41
MohammadAG51sigh, ttyl18:41
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pupnik_"It's almost hard to imagine ever being so young now."18:42
GAN900DocScrutinizer, don't let the enthusiastic youngsters make you shout at them to get off your lawn. :P18:42
jacekowskiwell, only thing that comes to my mind would be optimisation18:44
jacekowskiso then sudo only has to read one file18:44
GAN900Anyway, is anybody else watching the Maemo-MeeGo OBS integration discussion on #meego and meego-dev with great hilarity?18:44
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's utter nonsense18:44
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jacekowskiwell, it would make sense if there would be 100s of files in /etc/sudoers.d18:45
DocScrutinizerI guess they tried to implement some syntax check or security fallback in a very very weird way18:45
GAN900DocScrutinizer, that's my understanding of it.18:45
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: but then it would be much cleaner to just syntaxcheck sudoers.d/* and kick out any offending file to /tem/crap/*18:47
DocScrutinizeror similar scheme18:47
StskeepsGAN900: not really fair. we try to do something for maemo developers and legal issues has to be sorted. people pushing it is all about open source and it pains us having to push this (as it is the right thing to do for developers)18:47
GAN900Stskeeps, it's not fair that it's fun to watch?18:47
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StskeepsGAN900: no, that you think it's 'fun' someone is doing something about a real problem.18:48
GAN900Stskeeps, hey, alternative is that I could be depressed about the whole thing.18:49
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StskeepsGAN900: when it comes to things people could potentially be sued over if not done right, these kind of discussions and views are valid. we've found a good solution now after being aware of these issues.18:51
DangerMausWhats MeeGo?18:52
StskeepsGAN900: for my sake the closed apis of fremantle could die a horrible death, but we both know that isn't the right thing to do for developers. so a solution has to be made.18:52
StskeepsDangerMaus: meego.com18:53
GAN900Stskeeps, well, I'm not exactly at the point where I'm attributing nobel intentions to MeeGo as a project.18:54
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: just one question about bq2415018:57
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: you want that module to have default startup configuration18:57
jacekowskior read current settings in chip?18:57
DocScrutinizerI'd say it should do a chip reset on module init18:58
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DocScrutinizereverything else would be rather insane18:58
SpeedEvilChip reset, and come up in 100mA charge state?18:58
SpeedEvilOr wait for userspace18:59
DocScrutinizercome up in chip po defaults (which happens to be recovery charge config)18:59
StskeepsGAN900: you've been reacting to every single thing with negativity when things are actually tried to be dealt with. it gets old. grab a shovel instead and/or do actual realistical proposals how to deal with issues you're supposed to represent.18:59
GAN900Stskeeps, I think I'm going to move on instead.19:00
GAN900MeeGo is currently incredibly exhausting and frustrating.19:00
jacekowskiany open source project is19:01
GAN900jacekowski, to some extent, but Maemo wasn't nearly as bad in 5 years as MeeGo has been for me.19:02
jacekowskithere are couple things you have to learn to deal with that problem19:02
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DocScrutinizerhow to shout at people, for example?19:03
jacekowskiyou have to learn to don't car19:03
jacekowskiand to hate people19:03
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* MNZ hates you guys19:03
* nid0 doesnt care19:04
DocScrutinizerI prefer to like peple and the work they do and to know they do as well19:04
jacekowskii don't care19:04
DocScrutinizerthere's been FOSS projects that were joy instead of pain to contribute19:04
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jacekowskilast project i really was doing something with was amarok19:05
MNZDocScrutinizer, why? what makes them different from maemo? how can me make maemo a joy to contribute to like the FOSS projects you speak of?19:05
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: they always took time to get to that point though19:05
jacekowskibut then they decided to do amarok 2.019:05
GAN900MNZ, well, Maemo's dead.19:05
squiddThat's bit sad :(19:05
MNZGAN900, is nothing from maemo going to be useful to meego?19:05
GAN900MNZ, apparently not.19:06
MNZlets pack up then19:06
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: just shouted bitch at amarok (to be precise at phonon hardcompiled to amarok, and - oh wonder - at PA once again)19:06
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jacekowskinot so long ago19:07
jacekowskiamarok was the best player i ever saw19:07
jacekowskimultiple backends19:07
MNZjacekowski, quodlibet ftw19:07
jacekowskimusicbrainz integration19:07
jacekowskiit could move files to directories19:07
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ack19:07
jacekowskikeep lyrics and stuff in one place19:07
jacekowskiand what they done to it now is just sad19:08
DocScrutinizernow it's useless due to general audio madness on newer distros and KDE19:08
MNZhave you guys tried quodlibet seriously?19:08
jacekowskifoobar reminds me of amarok19:08
jacekowskibut it's not amarok19:08
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jacekowskiMNZ: it's python and it's gtk based19:09
MNZjacekowski, kde user... sorry had to guess from the amarok love19:09
jacekowskibut that was nice thing about amarok that it could have one database in mysql19:09
jacekowskiand all computers could use it19:09
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I had latency from end of one song to start playback of next song, that increased by 3min (180s) on each new playback startoff19:10
MNZquodlibet = python + gtk + gstreamer + hackiness + regexp search in all tags/filenames/directories/what-have-you19:10
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: oO?19:10
MNZHow far fetched is it to try keeping maemo alive solely on community efforts?19:11
jacekowskinot very far19:11
jacekowskicommunity isn't organised enough19:11
DocScrutinizerPA fucking doesn't quit when it should, so obviously phonon/amarok waiting till day dawns for stream getting freed and then starts next19:11
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I had some 2 years ago lags of several DAYS!! for KDE desktop event audio19:12
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: funny thing when the warning sound of a alert requester yells 50h after the actual event19:13
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: or maybe it's gstreamer, as aiui phonon is using gstreamer to interface to PA which in turn bases on ALSA device drivers :-x19:18
jacekowskifuck yeah19:19
jacekowskiyou have to love linux sound architecture19:19
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: notifier of phonon: "Phonon: Audio device hw:0.0 doesn't work, using hw:0.0 instead"  MUHAHAHAHAAAAA19:20
MNZActually the linux sound architecture is not THAT horrible :/ it's just pulseaudio that sucks really. I've pretty much always had things work for me19:21
MNZthen again, debian doesn't use PA19:21
DocScrutinizerin phonon backend configuration you can select from gstreamer and xine - alas clicking on xine instantly segfaults19:21
* DocScrutinizer off for vomiting elsewhere19:22
SwedeMikePA has gotten better, I think a lot of people who say it sucks have older experiences.19:23
SwedeMikeubuntu and some others adopted it too soon19:23
SwedeMikebut then again, I guess that might have increased development pace19:23
DangerMausi love that msg for the sound stuff DocScrutinizer i see if alot19:23
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n900-spacehey everyone20:36
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n900-spacemy n900 is connected to wifi on which my laptop is also connected, but on n900 i cannot access internet and on laptop i can20:37
n900-spaceany idea whats happening ?20:37
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n900-spaceany diagnostic commands ?20:37
slonopotamusn900-space, and 'wifi' is some  kind of a router?20:38
mikki-kunn900-space: hm, did you set yourself the ip it shpoudl fetch or are using dhcp?20:38
mikki-kunsorry for the typo <.<20:38
n900-spaceusing dhcp mikki-kun , its getting the ip it usually gets20:38
n900-spaceno problem :)20:38
mikki-kunhm... did you try restarting your n900 and can you possibly ping it?20:38
n900-spacewifi i meant slonopotamus, the wifi network, its a router yes20:38
slonopotamusn900-space, can n900 ping router itself?20:39
n900-spacetried restarting many times, its been happening for more then a day now20:39
slonopotamusit worked before?20:39
n900-spacedo you mean ping the router mikki-kun ?20:39
n900-spaceyes it used to work slonopotamus20:40
n900-spacewhat wud be the router's ip :) ?20:40
mikki-kunping the n900 from your pc and yeah, also try pinging your router from the n900...20:40
slonopotamusn900-space, if your device ip is A.B.C.D, routes is usually A.B.C.120:41
n900-spacelike my n900 is issued
n900-spaceyes my laptop can ping it20:41
mikki-kun192.168.1.1 it should be then20:41
n900-spacetrying from n900 to router ping now20:41
slonopotamusn900-space, 'route -n' and see what is assigned as default gateway (for
n900-spaceyes it can ping the
slonopotamusnow, check gateway thing20:42
n900-spacesays something like:20:42
n900-spacedestination is .... Gateway is
n900-spacethats the first line20:43
n900-spaceand the 2nd line:20:43
slonopotamusn900-space, other line, plz20:43
n900-spacedestination is .... Gateway is
slonopotamuslooks correct20:44
slonopotamusn900-space, can you ping from n900?20:44
n900-spaceyes i can20:44
slonopotamusif yes, you have dns issue. if no, something is likely b0rked in router setup20:44
n900-spacewhat is it btw20:44
nox-google dns20:45
slonopotamusn900-space, google dns. just easy to remember20:45
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slonopotamusn900-space, now, dns. what do you have in /etc/resolv.conf ?20:45
n900-spacelemme check20:46
slonopotamus$10 it has some crap :)20:46
n900-spaceok it says20:46
n900-spaceonly has 2 lines20:46
n900-spaceand they say :20:46
mikki-kunslonopotamus: i think you just won ^^20:47
n900-spaceline 1 : #automatically generated by pc-connectivity-manager20:47
n900-spaceline 2 : nameserver
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slonopotamusbingo :)20:47
mikki-kunwe have a winner here \o/ claim your price slonopotamus20:48
slonopotamusn900-space, replace second line with 'nameserver' (without quotes)20:48
mikki-kunslonopotamus: not
slonopotamusmikki-kun, n900 has dns daemon?20:48
n900-spaceok and will not effect my pc connectivity in any way ?20:49
mikki-kunslonopotamus: at least my n900 has in it and that works20:49
slonopotamusn900-space, nope20:49
slonopotamusn900-space, okay, first try
threshon 900, you're supposed to provide dnsmasq with a dns server.20:49
slonopotamusn900-space, 'nameserver'20:49
mikki-kunbut my netbook (running gentoo) usses weird20:49
slonopotamusmikki-kun, and that's the proper setup20:50
slonopotamusn900-space, then try going to some websites20:50
mikki-kuntake away my precious wpa_supplicant and stuff will not be properly set up ^^20:50
n900-spaceworking :)20:50
n900-spaceyayyy20:50 just showed up20:50
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slonopotamusn900-space, one of standard network troubles20:51
slonopotamusn900-space, okay, now i got root access to your computer. downloading out private pics...20:53
mikki-kunslonopotamus: maybe cause i have set up a static ip for that connection20:53
mikki-kunthat's maybe why it uses
n900-spacehehehe :)20:53
mikki-kunfrom my n900 and therefore needed to configure my dns-servers20:53
n900-spacei'm running windows right now :)20:53
mikki-kun8.8.4.4 is my secondary ^^20:53
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slonopotamusn900-space, hey, installing linux on that thingie was step #0.20:54
n900-spaceyes n I have fedora c12 on multiboot, so aint that big a sinner these days.20:55
n900-spacebtw, i cud just not install the pc-connectivity app on fedora !!!20:56
n900-spaceits was just not getting installed.20:56
mikki-kun:o fedora? go gentoo!20:56
n900-spacethe way it has been described on
n900-spacewell sure20:57
n900-spacewill get it downloaded tonight20:57
n900-spaceI was having trouble getting my external hdd to boot my laptop20:57
n900-spaceits was sad20:57
slonopotamusn900-space, you were lucky you met me. if you met my dad, he would already installed freebsd 4.x on your poor box :)20:58
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mikki-kunfreebsd? that one i gotta try when i am feeling lucky20:59
mikki-kunslonopotamus: is it a huge change if you go there from linux?20:59
slonopotamusmikki-kun, no fun (on desktop), very  moderate hw support20:59
slonopotamusmikki-kun, gentoo is a closest thing in linux world to freebsd (and that's why i'm using it)21:00
mikki-kuna fellow gentooer :) \o/21:00
slonopotamusalso, do not forget to lookup depenguinator project :D21:01
mikki-kunnox-: thanks for the link, will read it21:01
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n900-spacelemme boot this machine from fc12, since you guys are online I should ask for one more thing21:02
nox-and re desktop freebsd, its not _that_ bad, i even have vdr running on freebsd now with dvb-s221:02
slonopotamusnox-, they still have oss21:03
Shadikkanox-: Thanks for the link, it seems interesting. :)21:03
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nox-well is that a problem slonopotamus?  at least freebsd's `oss' has in-kernel mixing and per-app volume so you rarely need any `sound daemons' like linux has countless ones...21:05
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slonopotamusnox-, last time i tried (~2006) kde (with arts!!) could only make sounds from a single app at a time21:06
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nox-well ok maybe 2006 there were no vchans yet (or they werent enabled by default)21:07
slonopotamusand launching quake exclusively locked audio output so no other app could make any sound while it was running21:07
nox-yeah then you didnt have vchans (enabled)21:08
slonopotamusnox-, i don't say freebsd is bad. i have it on a couple of servers. it just happens that linux is easier to use on desktops thanks to wider hw support21:09
slonopotamus(whatever. we're completely off-topic)21:09
nox-yeah ok21:09
nox-that too :)21:09
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slonopotamusn900-space, hmm... fedora still boots?!?!21:11
BCMMheh, i have a problem with the app manager21:11
BCMM"Unable to update 'Evince: Document Viewer'. Update file corrupted."21:12
BCMMbut that isn't my problem21:12
slonopotamustry again?21:12
BCMMthe problem is whether to click "yes" or "no"...21:12
slonopotamuslol :)21:12
MNZwell, evaluate whether or not it was unable to update21:13
slonopotamusquick, screenshot it21:13
BCMMi presume someone forgot to type "Try again?"21:13
MNZif unable, then yes.21:13
slonopotamusBCMM, it deserves to be put on tdwtf21:13
BCMMwhat's the screenshot shortcut again?21:13
slonopotamusBCMM, take a photo, whatever :)21:13
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mikki-kunctrl + shift + p i think it was21:18
slonopotamusn900-space, your fedora  is kinda slow to boot up21:18
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n900-spaceno my internet is slonopotamus21:19
n900-spaceand i was busy playing with n90021:19
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n900-spacebtw, any suggestions for a new laptop?21:20
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* slonopotamus suggests buying a new laptop21:20
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slonopotamusn900-space, just don't buy broadcom wifi21:21
slonopotamusn900-space, all the rest is fixable21:21
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n900-spacei think my dell laptop has a wifi hw from broadcom21:23
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slonopotamusyou're lucky if it works properly21:23
slonopotamusit might not21:23
n900-spacewell its working right now21:24
nox-doesnt dell also do things like nonstandard psu-to-mobo plugs/pinouts?21:24
n900-spacei'm connected to the last signals that my router broadcasts .. from far away21:24
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n900-spaceboth my n900 and the laptop21:24
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BCMMwhat OS will you run on the laptop?21:25
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n900-spacelinux and windows 7. on the development side, QT for some learning stuff, and sql servers and visual studio 2010 for office work BCMM21:26
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BCMMi've had plenty of sorta-working wireless with linux21:27
BCMMand one very good completely solid atheros21:27
slonopotamusBCMM, intel wifi are most trouble-less21:27
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n900-spaceso i followed instructions here:21:29
BCMMslonopotamus: not my experience21:29
n900-spacefor getting this pc connectivity software on my linux installation21:29
BCMMslonopotamus: i had one that would panic the kernel when disconnecting from certain networks21:30
n900-spacebut according to the website, when i do a21:30
n900-spaceyum check-update21:30
BCMMthis was a few years ago and hte driver might be much better now21:30
n900-spaceit gives me the following problem:21:30
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n900-spaceLoaded plugins: presto, refresh-packagekit [Errno 14] HTTP Error 404 :  Trying other mirror. Error: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: pc-connectivity. Please verify its path and try again21:30
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slonopotamusn900-space, maybe fedora11 is last thing it supports?21:33
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mikki-kunhm, how can i disable myself the bootvideo of the n900 without installing any apps?21:34
n900-spacethe docs are old maybe21:34
n900-spacebut shouldnt that work in fc12 slonopotamus21:34
slonopotamusn900-space, try replacing 12 with 11 in your url. however it might not install/work21:35
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slonopotamusmikki-kun, by looking what those apps do and doing same thing by hand?21:36
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slonopotamusmikki-kun, i think you can install, disable video, uninstall21:37
slonopotamusn900-space, why you want maemo-pc-connectivity?21:37
mikki-kunthanks for the idea... i just thought somebody knows better already than i do21:38
slonopotamusn900-space, maybe you just want ?21:39
n900-spaceI use that on windows to connect to n900, to do ssh and stuff.21:39
slonopotamusyou don't need anything but wifi to do ssh21:39
n900-spaceyes actually usb networking is what i want on my linux laptop with n90021:39
slonopotamusn900-space, just follow that page then21:40
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n900-spacelets say i'm not on a wifi, just the laptop and the n900 connected with a usb cable, for that.21:40
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slonopotamusn900-space, that page has all info you need to setup it21:41
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n900-spaceslonopotamus: once my n900 is connected to the laptop in usb mode, I want to use laptop's internet connection on my n900 (dont want n900 on wifi network cuz it keep disconnecting bcuz of weak signals)21:51
slonopotamusn900-space, you need to setup routing on laptop for that to work21:53
SpacedOutIs there something I'm supposed to manually do after upgrading the power kernel?  I installed kernel-power 2.6.28-maemo40 on N900 and now that I rebooted it comes up with the blue Nokia text white background (usb icon), goes blank and doesn't do anything more.21:53
slonopotamusSpacedOut, weren't you told that overclocking is dangerous? :)21:53
nid0installing power kernel != overclocking neccesarily21:54
SpacedOutslonopotamus: I didn't overclock, I just wanted to test the T-Mobile IPv6 datalink.21:54
slonopotamusn900-space, 1 sec, had a link nearby21:54
SpacedOut ?21:55
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SpacedOutI guess I try doing a USB flash of the kernel.21:57
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slonopotamusn900-space, it describes desktop setup so n900 can access internet via it21:58
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technomike_phonehey guys21:58
technomike_phoneCan I use a 32gb microSD card on n900?21:58
prozzergno, 16gb is max (if i remember the specs correctly)21:59
technomike_phoneoh :(22:00
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slonopotamus(cool quote in topic, btw)22:02
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ShadowJKi think 32g works too22:08
ShadowJKit's just not tested by nokia because it didn't exist22:08
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technomike_phoneAh yeah!22:08
technomike_phoneI am going to get a 32gb microsd22:09
ShadowJKthey're so expensive22:09
ShadowJKare you that desperate for extra storage? :P22:09
technomike_phoneYeah but what do you think of the fake ones. I mean I know they aren't as fast but storage wise they are epic.22:10
slonopotamustechnomike_phone has lots of porn22:10
technomike_phoneHaha xD22:10
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slonopotamusno other valid reason to take 2x32gb in a phone :)22:11
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technomike_phoneHahaahah :P22:11
technomike_phoneGood idea. Portable porn!22:11
Dakonhas anyone an idea why my scratchbox can't connect to
Dakonresolv.conf if set correctly22:12
slonopotamusyou can even share it via bluetooth!22:12
slonopotamusDakon, restarted scratchbox after computer boot?22:12
technomike_phoneN900 is helping me learn linux more :D22:12
slonopotamusDakon, can it connect anywhere else?22:13
Dakonno idea, there is no ping ;(22:13
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slonopotamusDakon, telnet, ssh, wget? it must have smth22:14
Dakonhm, no, doesn't look like22:14
DakonI meant: it has ssh, but that also can't connect22:15
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ShadowJKAs far as I know, nobody besides Sandisk has 32gig microsd cards, so the "fakes" probably wrap around22:15
ShadowJKwhere wrap around means that as you start writing 17 gigabytes it's overwriting the first gig :)22:16
slonopotamusDakon, by ip too? (to filter out dns troubles)22:16
technomike_phoneShadowJK :o oh22:16
Dakonhm, that works22:16
technomike_phonelucky you told me. Thanks. Definetly not going for that then :P22:16
Dakonpinging from outside the scratchbox works22:17
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I doubt they'd use expensive 16GB chips to fake a 32GB MMC22:18
ShadowJKtechnomike_phone, have you seen too-cheap-to-be-true 32g microsdhc?22:18
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yeah it probably fucks up earlier :)22:18
n900-spaceslonopotamus: the moment i connect my n900 to my laptop, the laptop's wifi connection stops working22:18
technomike_phone"... do show 32GB and 16Gb in capacity, they do work but only up to 1GB if your lucky. "22:18
technomike_phoneI will wait for drop in price of genuine22:19
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slonopotamusn900-space, sorry for outdated link. you want
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slonopotamusn900-space, that possibly means laptop takes wrong route (tries to go outside via usb, not via wifi). take a look at 'route -n' output when 'wifi stops working' as you say. and read through that new page, maybe it has explicit proper routes22:25
technomike_phoneYES PHATE22:25
technomike_phoneRENEGADE SNAREZ22:26
technomike_phoneGETTING BACK IN THE JUNGLE!22:26
technomike_phonei want to go into the jungle for real22:26
n900-spaceok i will slonopotamus , and thanks for helping out in getting the internet working on n900 too !22:26
technomike_phonethat was my friend typing in the wrong channel22:27
technomike_phonesorry guys22:27
* slonopotamus got really weird pptp setup where default policy routed eth0 traffic _into_ pptp tunnel working over eth0 :D22:27
BCMMwow, freenode has a channel where that is normal?22:27
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slonopotamusBCMM, :D22:28
technomike_phoneI am going to buy Joikuspot and check it out22:28
technomike_phoneHave any of you guys got it22:28
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mikki-kuntechnomike_phone: there is also "mobile hotspot" in the extras-testing repo22:28
mikki-kunrelies on titan's custom kernel yet should be free22:29
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mikki-kunand sport the same features joiku does22:29
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* cehteh wishes for a real hotspot aka managed mode22:29
cehtehdhcp and all22:29
mikki-kunbut i haven't tried it as i don't have 3g, sadly22:30
technomike_phonethanks alot mikki-kun22:30
technomike_phonewow not having 3g22:30
slonopotamusn900-space, yeah, that link has some words on default gateway mess22:30
technomike_phoneI am so used to having 3g everywhere i go here in uk22:30
mikki-kunno problem :) i saw it once and it got mentioned a couple of time somewhere so i decided to give it a look22:30
technomike_phonethat its hard to imagine life without 3g22:31
mikki-kunif you know more about it could you please make a small review of that app? :)22:31
mikki-kuncouldn't find any in particular22:32
technomike_phonethat would be cool22:32
technomike_phoneWhat is the best custom kernel to use in your opinion22:32
technomike_phoneI have kernel-power installed22:32
slonopotamustechnomike_phone, the one that was configured by someone else22:33
technomike_phonehaha what would that be22:33
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SpacedOuttechnomike_phone: Which version?  I dorked up my device with the -40 version.22:34
slonopotamusi mean, not by yourself :) it becomes a really boring experience after you configure first 5-10 kernels22:34
mikki-kunslonopotamus: yet every time you seek the best performance i guess ;)22:35
mikki-kunnot just randomly adding and removing stuff x)22:35
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mikki-kunfeels like yesterday when i was like "ughhh, what the?! is that important? i hope..."22:36
slonopotamusmikki-kun, after all, i ended up using genkernel. no visible performance loss/gain22:36
technomike_phoneI am really not sure22:36
mikki-kunbut uhm yeah, how could i make my own kernel vor the n900?22:36
slonopotamusmikki-kun, sure, why not22:36
technomike_phoneI just typed apt-get install kernel-power22:36
slonopotamusoh, 'how'22:37
mikki-kuntechnomike_phone: i am running the -40 but something just doesn't seem to work with the apps i combine... either the kernel or i dunno what...22:37
slonopotamusas usual. get sources, get compiler, make menuconfig, make22:37
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SpacedOut`dpkg -l kernel-power` then again it might only have been a problem on upgrading, I have no idea, I'm looking at the instructions for flashing over USB.22:37
mikki-kuni'd need to compile on arm-architecture, right?22:37
technomike_phoneWell it seems a little unstable but it could just be me22:37
slonopotamusmikki-kun, or with a crosscompiler22:38
SpacedOutmikki-kun: That's what the SDK is for.22:38
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mikki-kunSpacedOut: the sdk pulls in like "you need this and that"... it asks me to install previous versions of stuff i have >.<22:38
slonopotamusSpacedOut, you don't need 'SDK' to compile a kernel. you just need a toolchain.22:38
mikki-kunand i'd say if i need an sdk for making a kernel then somethign went awfully wrong with the design22:39
jacekowskitoolchain is a part of SDK22:39
slonopotamusthat doesn't mean you can't take only toolchain22:39
mikki-kunany way i can find out the parameters with which the kernel was compiled?22:39
slonopotamusmikki-kun, .config?22:40
mikki-kunslonopotamus: i meant if i have the kernel but not the .config22:40
mikki-kunor is that somewhere as well placed?22:40
slonopotamusmikki-kun, i think n900 config is present in n900 kernel package22:40
slonopotamusmikki-kun, or publically accessible nearby22:41
mikki-kunat least tian should have it22:41
mikki-kunand ok, that's maybe a dumb question, but can i take another kernel-version?22:42
mikki-kunlike 2.6.35?22:42
slonopotamusit'll be missing some stuff required for maemo22:43
mikki-kunhm, basically i'd just need to patch then the kernel22:43
luke-jrmikki-kun: Maemo isn't Linux, it's derived from Linux.22:43
slonopotamusmikki-kun, n900 kernel is somewhat patched22:43
luke-jrmikki-kun: porting stuff between versions is non-trivial22:43
mikki-kunmaemo =! linux?!22:43
Stskeepsluke-jr's insane, don't mind him22:43
luke-jrmikki-kun: they took an old version of Linux, and modified it a lot22:44
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TomaszDa lot? they didn't modify it enough22:44
slonopotamusluke-jr, it wasn't so old when they took it22:44
TomaszDfor desktop performance for example22:44
luke-jrslonopotamus: it's old now!22:44
mikki-kuni hope some day we will be able to install gentoo properly on the n90022:44
mikki-kunthat would be enough for me22:44
luke-jrfremantle-sources works fine :P22:45
luke-jrmeego-sources should work for Gentoo as well, but then you lose Maemo22:45
mikki-kunin particular i am very annoyed by e.g. no /var/log/dmesg or /var/log/messages22:45
luke-jrmikki-kun: none of my Gentoo systems have those either22:45
luke-jrmetalog ftw22:45
mikki-kunhm, is that as well employed in maemo?22:46
slonopotamusmikki-kun, As of today (March 6th 2010), the N900 kernel is a Nokia-patched 2.6.28-omap1. Current stable version of 2.6.28 kernel series is version 10 (i.e. The associated patch  is more than 850 KB (wc reports 26418 lines for that baby).22:46
luke-jrbut I run Gentoo22:46
Stskeepsmeh, go for 2.6.3522:47
mikki-kuni am runnign as well gentoo =p22:47
luke-jrso install metalog or whatever and be happy :P22:47
mikki-kunslonopotamus: you think we can share the lines? :D22:47
mikki-kunlike 50:50 ^^'''22:47
luke-jrmikki-kun: no point22:47
luke-jrMeeGo already has a mostly ported 2.6.3522:48
luke-jrbut it's ported to N900, not to Maemo22:48
luke-jrbecause Maemo is dead22:48
mikki-kunwell, mine dies after i reinstall all the apps i installed22:48
mikki-kunkinda... lame22:48
mikki-kunon a reinstall22:48
luke-jrmikki-kun: so install Gentoo instead of Maemo? :P22:48
luke-jractually, I don't think you can get rid of Maemo entirely yet :\22:48
mikki-kuni would love to, but the poor cpu would fry before it would be all compiled :(22:49
luke-jrmikki-kun: mine didn't.22:49
luke-jryours is that old?22:49
mikki-kunuhhh, on your n900?22:49
mikki-kunhm, how long did it take you?22:50
ShadowJK<Stskeeps> luke-jr's insane, don't mind him22:50
luke-jralso, according to cpufreq-info, I only use 600 MHz for 3.15% of the time22:50
ShadowJKinsane gentoo users :)22:50
luke-jrmikki-kun: I forget, a few days?22:50
luke-jrupdates usually finish overnight22:50
* luke-jr notes he used Gentoo on his old 800 MHz desktop too22:50
slonopotamusmikki-kun, n900 is clockable up to 1.1GHz, that's pretty a lot22:50
luke-jrand that was no doubt slower than N90022:50
johnsqmikki-kun: corei7 qemu compiles in about 24h22:51
mikki-kunslonopotamus: and reducing it's lifetime badly22:51
luke-jrmikki-kun: 600 MHz is enough22:51
slonopotamusmikki-kun, 600 is still not-so-bad22:51
mikki-kunluke-jr: at times it feels like i'd need a gazillion hertz22:51
luke-jrmikki-kun: impatient..22:51
mikki-kunbadly written code i guess22:52
mikki-kunor way too heavy on the poor hardware22:52
luke-jractually, it'd be far easier if you ran a recent Linux port22:52
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mikki-kunlike which one?22:52
luke-jrmikki-kun: again, I used Gentoo back when 800 MHz was the norm for desktops… it's bearable22:52
luke-jrmikki-kun: like one with proper I/O prioritization ;)22:52
luke-jrso you can just set emerge to "bulk" I/O priority22:53
mikki-kunn280 here @ 1.6622:53
* slonopotamus wonders why everyone _suddenly_ stopped talking about mmc wear-out and switched to overclocking-is-dangerous22:53
mikki-kunso i know what it means to have 'slow' speeds22:53
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mikki-kunmmc wear-out?22:53
luke-jrslonopotamus: we read the OMAP specs :P22:53
mikki-kundid i miss a hype? :o22:53
luke-jrat 600 MHz, the OMAP will last less than a year22:53
luke-jrand that time drops off fast as you overclock more22:54
mikki-kunluke-jr: i didn't, i just know it makes logical sense why TI said that cpu is actually for (was it really?) 500MhZ22:54
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slonopotamusluke-jr, n900 swaps to builtin, <irreplaceable!!!111!11!> mmc22:54
luke-jrslonopotamus: by default22:54
slonopotamusit'll definitely wear out in a moment22:54
Venemoalterego: ping22:54
Venemo~seen alterego22:55
mikki-kunslonopotamus: take a fine saw and saw it off, take the new one, use duct-tape and wd40 and it'll work like a charm!22:55
luke-jrin Gentoo, I swap to MicroSD22:55
infobotalterego is currently on #maemo, last said: 'Depends who's justifying it.'.22:55
luke-jrinfobot: fail22:55
luke-jr  cpufreq stats: 600 MHz:3.15%, 550 MHz:0.04%, 500 MHz:88.95%, 250 MHz:7.87%  (50860)22:55
mikki-kunuhhh... shouldn't it be 'FAIL!'22:55
ShadowJKi read a datasheet for an mmc once, did the math, and concluded it'd take ages to wear out at constant 1.5Meg/s rate (which was what I was doing with that thing at the timej22:56
luke-jreMMC's solution to swap wear-out problem: slow down the data rate to make it take longer22:57
ShadowJKit doesn't have the resources to do it fast :)22:57
mikki-kundo faster eMMCs therefore die faster?22:57
luke-jrI'll stick to the throwaway fast MicroSD cards22:57
luke-jrShadowJK: my MicroSDs are faster than the eMMC22:57
mikki-kunluke-jr: which ones are you using? class 12? Ö.ö22:58
luke-jrmikki-kun: no clue22:58
luke-jrwhatever I had lying around22:58
mikki-kunthen how can you say yours are faster than the emmc?22:58
luke-jrdd says so22:58
ShadowJKalso since only stuff you manually force to use the microsd, it gets much faster22:58
slonopotamusmikki-kun, mmc wear-out was as FUD as current overclocking-is-dangerous stuff22:58
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luke-jrShadowJK: I forget if I had swap disabled or not22:59
ShadowJKbecause sd/(e)mmc really hates seeks22:59
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ShadowJKeven with swap disabled it'll do demand paging of stuff in /opt22:59
luke-jrShadowJK: Maemo mayeb22:59
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luke-jrI'll have to retest under Gentoo23:00
ShadowJKslonopotamus, when writing, pure read-only random access is fast23:00
ShadowJKiirc I got about 6meg/s write speed on the emmc23:00
ShadowJKslonopotamus, on as/(e)mmc random access write is superslow23:01
luke-jrerr, wtf23:01
luke-jrmy Gentoo won't boot anymore23:01
slonopotamusShadowJK, slower than on hdd? in %23:01
ShadowJKlike that 6meg/s degrades easily to 200kbyte/s23:01
slonopotamusrandom writes on hdd easily degrade to 10kbyte/s23:01
slonopotamuswell, maybe 2023:02
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ShadowJKno way :)23:02
slonopotamussingle seek is 5-10ms23:02
Venemo~seen lcuk23:02
infobotlcuk <lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4h 35m 43s ago, saying: '" a little bit "'.23:02
Venemo -> lcuk would have liked this23:03
slonopotamus!!! select error: (4, 'Interrupted system call')23:04
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luke-jrGentoo requires R&D mode to boot ☹23:05
slonopotamushow you managed to do that?23:05
slonopotamuswrite a wd kicker23:06
luke-jrslonopotamus: it's before 'boot' runlevel23:06
jacekowskiwatchdog is enabled only if you kick it23:06
slonopotamusbetter as an in-kernel driver23:06
jacekowskiso untill fist kick it's disabled23:06
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jacekowskislonopotamus: in-kernel kicker is bad idea23:06
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jacekowskislonopotamus: it won't detect userland malfunction23:07
slonopotamusjacekowski, watchdog is a bad idea23:07
slonopotamussoftware charger is an insamely bad idea23:07
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slonopotamusexpecially userspace software charger23:08
infobotslonopotamus meant: especially userspace software charger23:08
DocScrutinizer51slonopotamus: write a kernel module to kick a kernel module??? X-P23:08
mikki-kunthat's a cool idea23:08
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer51, there's hw wd, no?23:08
luke-jrit's the OMAP WD23:08
slonopotamusi win23:09
mikki-kunCONFIG_GTFO! <-- that'll be a good name for it i guess ^^23:09
luke-jrdisabling only the OMAP WD boots23:09
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ShadowJKslonopotamus, here's a graph:
ShadowJKnotice the harddrives outperforming the jmicron based SSDs :)23:10
ShadowJKand samsung..23:10
DocScrutinizer51slonopotamus: there's n9 autonomous hw wd, and there's no such thing like a sw charger, in N90023:10
SpeedEvilyeah - 4K random write is pessimal23:10
SpeedEvilPretty much23:10
infobotDocScrutinizer51 meant: slonopotamus: there's no autonomous hw wd, and there's no such thing like a sw charger, in N90023:10
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Do you happen to have 64K and 128K random write?23:11
luke-jr"You need to also disable watchdogs if you are not using the closed components, especially the Battery Management Entity (BME). This can be done similarly to above, except the flasher command is following: sudo flasher-3.5 –enable-rd-mode –set-rd-flags=no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd"23:11
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mikki-kunwhoah, seeing my ssd at place two for random writes @ 4K is nice :)23:12
slonopotamusShadowJK, conclusion - everything but intel ssd under random writes = epic fail23:12
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ShadowJKslonopotamus, well this article was written a few years ago23:12
ShadowJKthe author was so pissed off at the ssd in his laptop23:13
slonopotamusShadowJK, well, there are more ssds now23:13
crashanddieShadowJK: how come intel manage to have drives that are so superior23:13
ShadowJKit would randomly freeze for a second when writing IMs or clicking a link23:13
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crashanddieShadowJK: i mean, where did the technology come from? Did they buy some company, or was it in-house tech?23:13
ShadowJKmusic would stutter when switching from one app to another or opening a new window23:13
luke-jreMMC swap partition: read=12.4 MB/s, write=3.1 MB/s23:14
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ShadowJKcrashanddie, basically everyone else was focusing on sequential read/write because that's what every review site tested23:14
slonopotamusluke-jr, moved to xorg-1.8 already?23:14
mikki-kunhm... funny, with the flasher i get via usb around 12MB/sec write....23:14
luke-jrslonopotamus: dunno, whatever's stable23:14
ShadowJKintel benchmarked slower than competition in those stupid benchmarks23:15
slonopotamusluke-jr, 1.8 is the first one to drop hal23:15
ShadowJKbut real life performance was superior23:15
luke-jrslonopotamus: HAL was always optional23:15
crashanddieShadowJK: and then the testors went "eh?" when they noticed the machine actually worked a whole lot faster?23:15
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slonopotamusluke-jr, yeah, but now it is deprecated completely23:15
crashanddieShadowJK: do you know the curent price point of SSD (and more specifically, Intel)?23:16
ShadowJKWhat the SSD has to do is run a log structred filesystem ontop of the ssds. Treat the ssd like a tape drive, writing into a circular buffer23:16
mikki-kunslonopotamus: you can still use hal, last version23:16
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: you need to actually do a lot more expensive and complex block control to get good random write perrfrmance.23:16
ShadowJKcrashanddie, well doesn't amazon know..23:16
ShadowJKor newegg, whatever23:16
luke-jrMicroSD swap partition: read=20 MB/s, write=3.4 MB/s23:16
MohammadAG51hey lcuk23:17
ShadowJKocz vertex is also good. Anand basically yelled at ocx until they gave in and made the first non-intel non-shit ssd ;p23:17
slonopotamusmikki-kun, i'd like to remove it completely, but k3b doesn't work then :(23:17
lcukhey MohammadAG51, is it tomorrow?23:17
mikki-kunlol... really i don't know whether to laugh or cry, but that is just insane23:17
nox-`real' blocksize on ssds is some 128 or 256 K, right?23:17
ShadowJKnox-, yes23:17
crashanddiehmm... Intel X25 is still roughly at around $2.6 per gig23:17
nox-so its a bit like the worries ppl have about 4k sectors on harddrives now...23:17
SpeedEvilnox-: sort-of, yes.23:18
mikki-kunslonopotamus: well here in gentoo i can tell it to remove hal from it... it worked, but then i decided to remake my netbook and haven't had since then the motivation to go again to 1.8 ^^''23:18
ShadowJKAnyway, the jmicron ones are essentially a shitload of mmc/sd in striped raid-0 :)23:18
mikki-kunnox-: my x25-m g2 has 512B23:18
ShadowJKwhich is why they were crap23:18
ShadowJKmikki-kun, it lies23:18
ShadowJKeverything lies23:18
nox-mikki-kun, internal blocksize i meant23:18
nox-(some 4k harddrives also lie btw)23:19
mikki-kunhm, may i ask how i can look that up?23:19
mikki-kunso i can report what mine says23:19
ShadowJKit's usually considered proprietary information23:19
crashanddieShadowJK: it's a shame that HDs are still at $.2 per gig, or might just jump the gun23:20
ShadowJKAnyway, what x25-m does internally is something like: when host writes blocks 2, 98, 37, 4, x25-m internally writes 9,10,11,12.. and obviously keeps a table so it knows which sectors to read when host wants to read stuff..23:21
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Well...23:21
MohammadAG51lcuk, it? is?23:21
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: It doesn't matter at some point, if it's big enough.23:21
MohammadAG51it's never tomorrow anyways :P23:22
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: I'm about to setup a couple of low-power laptops with 4G 'SSD'23:22
ShadowJKI'd have a small-ish OS ssdrive, and big harddrive for "media"23:22
crashanddieSpeedEvil: sure, i'd just like to have something above 200gig (200gig is the bare minimum on a everyday laptop anyway) under $30023:22
SpeedEvil(really SD in a adaptor)23:22
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* ShadowJK sleeps23:22
crashanddieShadowJK: doesn't really work on a laptop, does it?23:22
MohammadAG51hmm, w00t_ ping?23:22
* crashanddie waves at MohammadAG51 23:23
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: don't forget the decent RAM buffers in decent SSD23:23
* MohammadAG51 waves at crashanddie 23:23
MohammadAG51starting school tomorrow, you won't see me a lot here :(23:23
mikki-kunwhat is actually the internal blocksize?23:23
lcukMohammadAG51, I think tonight I am going to sit back in bed and write some code23:23
crashanddieMohammadAG51: good luck mate23:23
crashanddieMohammadAG51: which year/section?23:23
MohammadAG5112th year, last one23:24
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: that's unacceptable23:24
SpeedEvilmikki-kun: ~128K23:24
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, at one point I did the math and concluded the size of such a mapping table was same as the declared ram size of the ssd..23:24
crashanddieMohammadAG51: specialising in?23:24
crashanddieMohammadAG51: no university after that?23:24
ShadowJKso it probably doesn't buffer as much as you'd think23:24
MohammadAG51still haven't decided what I'm going to do23:24
MohammadAG51but yeah.. I probably should23:24
crashanddieget a least a smallish degree23:24
DocScrutinizerwell when it buffers the table plus one or two blocks that's enough23:24
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: If structured right, you can put it in flash.23:25
crashanddielike a bachelor's or something23:25
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: largely23:25
crashanddieSpeedEvil: eh?23:25
MohammadAG51this is high school mate23:25
MohammadAG51not uni :P23:25
crashanddieMohammadAG51: well, the year after is uni, right?23:25
crashanddieMohammadAG51: start thinking about it23:25
SpeedEvilShadowJK: f structured right, you can put it in flash.23:25
crashanddieMohammadAG51: look into international studies, they make studying very fun23:26
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MohammadAG51crashanddie, I'm looking forward to Uni outside of IL :P23:26
MohammadAG51this country's dead23:26
MohammadAG51night life sucks23:26
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crashanddieMohammadAG51: erasmus, crossroads, via domitia, there's plenty of funds and scholarships you can apply for23:26
crashanddiebut you need to do it early and soon -- it's burocracy, takes decades23:27
crashanddieMohammadAG51: UK has good unis, germany has too. France only if you can stand it, and then sweden or denmark. I wouldn't recommend the US, way too far and very little international scholarships23:28
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MNZok folks, what does flaher-3.5 -b do exactly? out with it now23:29
MohammadAG51hmm, well, studying in Europe shouldn't be hard, I'm not passing the arabic crap23:29
crashanddieMNZ: rtfm23:29
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MNZcrashanddie, that's the problem, I rtfm23:29
MohammadAG51doing my final GCEs this year23:29
MNZfm = boot. IRL = instant brick23:29
luke-jrMNZ: rtfm again23:30
luke-jrit boots for me23:30
luke-jrbut I use 3.023:30
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MohammadAG51~debian MNZ23:30
* infobot tells MNZ to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!23:30
MNZ:S I RTFMed. More than once. Also, now flashing with the stock kernel and still bricked. WTF?23:30
luke-jrif you can flash, it ain't bricked23:31
crashanddieMNZ: it adds a command that will be passed to the kernel23:31
luke-jrbrick = broken NOLO23:31
luke-jrcrashanddie: that never works tho23:31
MohammadAG51can't nolo be fixed with a cold flash?23:31
crashanddiejust because the kernel/bootloader is broken23:31
trumeeguys, how do i identify what repo does a package belong to?23:31
luke-jrMohammadAG51: sure, but can you even cold flash N900?23:31
luke-jrMohammadAG51: cold flash means you wire direct to the flash chip23:32
MohammadAG51i know23:32
DocScrutinizerincredible, N900 got so fsckdup by unknown reason, I had to remove battery to 'unbrick' it. Would really feel like a brick, with no reaction to power button. Funny enough it reacted to USB charger plugin23:32
luke-jrI doubt it's exposed23:32
MohammadAG51err, flasher-3.5 --cold-flash23:32
trumeei tried "apt-cache depends frogatto-engine"  and it gave me a list of packages. How do i identify what repo they belong to?23:32
luke-jrMohammadAG51: hum, sounds like a serial port thing23:33
MNZon a totally unrelated note though, MohammadAG51 what ALs are you doing?23:33
slonopotamustrumee, that's the key question to understand deb23:33
luke-jrMohammadAG51: I destroyed my N810 battery trying to get to its serial port23:33
MohammadAG51luke-jr, could be, but...  -U, --usb-device=ARG        Specify USB device to use (bus:device address)23:33
trumeeslonopotamus: i am more of a gentoo ebuild guy than a deb guy :)23:33
luke-jrMohammadAG51: that's not for cold flahs23:34
* DocScrutinizer pokes crashanddie and glares. rogue sw??23:34
MohammadAG51MNZ, err, ALs? :)23:34
slonopotamusgentooers occupying #maemo23:34
luke-jrslonopotamus: Maemo is dead. Gentoo naturally conquers all.23:34
MNZMohammadAG51, AL == A Level == GCE. Or what do you guys call it there?23:35
luke-jrtrumee: in case you missed it, Gentoo requires R&D mode for now ☹23:35
slonopotamusluke-jr, who's next, meego? :)23:35
MohammadAG51oh, sorry, we don't use the term AL :P23:35
trumeei tried "apt-cache showpkg" but i guess it lists all the versions instead of just installed version.23:35
luke-jrslonopotamus: they won't know what hit them!23:35
nox-trumee, if the package is installed: apt-cache policy foo23:35
MohammadAG51Biology Physics Chemistry, Core maths and Stats (afaik one A level), as well as arabic23:35
trumeenox-: thanks23:36
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slonopotamusnox-, have you tried that?23:36
trumeeluke-jr: does nitdroid need R&D mode too? if not, why does gentoo?23:37
MohammadAG51I can't see myself compiling on each installation of an app :P23:37
slonopotamusnox-, it shows only part of the url23:37
MNZmeh. so I managed to get the phone into vibrator mode again23:37
MohammadAG51trumee, it depends on how the dev makes priorities23:37
MohammadAG51for example, I'm not interested in fixing it atm on NITUbuntu23:37
MohammadAG51i'm interested in getting ofono working23:37
luke-jrtrumee: no idea23:37
slonopotamusMohammadAG51, that prevents you from running every thing you see on the web though :)23:37
MNZvibrator mode = boot -> vibrate -> reboot. Good for..err..vibrating :/23:38
luke-jrtrumee: the stupid watchdog kills Gentoo w/o23:38
nox-slonopotamus, ah hm, have to look in sources.list then too23:38
MohammadAG51luke-jr, scripts in init to fix it23:38
luke-jrMohammadAG51: init doesn't get a chance to start23:38
luke-jrit's still waiting on udev probing23:38
slonopotamusnox-, for maemo repos, it doesn't show enough to understand which of extras-* it is23:39
nox-hm ok :(23:39
luke-jrI suppose udev can be configured to do it, but then it's a close call23:39
slonopotamusluke-jr, wait23:39
luke-jrslonopotamus: no23:39
slonopotamusluke-jr, on n8x0 we were kicking wd in linuxrc23:39
luke-jrslonopotamus: on N8x0, we had an initfs with BME23:40
DocScrutinizerMNZ: Flash eMMC, *DO NOT BOOT*, flash rootfs23:40
slonopotamusluke-jr, yeah, but still, linuxrc has smth wrt wd23:40
jacekowskiwell, it should be done in a way that kernel inits hardware and keeps it running23:40
luke-jrslonopotamus: not the one I wrote for N900 :P23:40
jacekowskiuntill userland is ready to take over23:40
slonopotamusluke-jr, /usr/sbin/dsmetool --root-mounted23:40
luke-jrslonopotamus: no DSME23:41
MNZDocScrutinizer, I was thinking rootfs flash first to see if it will boot? besides I didn't mess with anything except the kernel, this shouldn't be happening :@23:41
DocScrutinizerMNZ flashing eMMC after boot of rootfs will "brick"23:41
slonopotamusluke-jr, afair, that tells dsme to start a thing that'll kick wd each N secs23:41
luke-jrslonopotamus: there is no DSME23:42
slonopotamusluke-jr, so you need some other kind of a kicker23:42
trumeenox-: "apt-get policy" doesnt mention that package came from extras-devel?23:42
jacekowskislonopotamus: WD is stopped untill first kick23:43
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slonopotamusjacekowski, doesn't kernel kick it?23:43
MNZDocScrutinizer, what? but my eMMC is intact! I just flashed with a new kernel I built, it didn't boot23:43
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: listen to jacekowski23:43
luke-jrjacekowski: not so23:43
trumeei want to find out whether an installed package came from extras-devel or not?23:43
slonopotamusjacekowski, until userspace is working23:43
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: why? he is wrong :P23:43
DocScrutinizerno he's not23:43
luke-jrWD is killing the system before it even starts the boot process23:44
jacekowskiluke-jr: that WD has like 120s timeout23:44
DocScrutinizerthe only question is WHO is actually kicking the hw wd23:44
luke-jrjacekowski: so boot to where it reboots23:44
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: must be NOLO23:44
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: that's absolute nonsense. How would the system ever boot then?23:45
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: nfc23:45
trumeeslonopotamus: i want to find out whether an installed package came from extras-devel or not?23:45
luke-jrBME is fast?23:45
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: he might be right23:45
jacekowskiiirc there was wd code in nolo23:45
jacekowskilet me just verify it23:45
DocScrutinizerregarding NOLO he might be right23:45
DocScrutinizerbut running nolo is a booted up device, at least from my POV23:46
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: "boot process" as in init scripts23:46
jacekowskinolo kicks watchdog23:46
luke-jrI suppose maybe I could have linuxrc kick the WD one more time before it starts /sbin/init23:46
slonopotamustrumee, fella gentooer, i have no idea how the hell this damn apt is supposed to be used. to me, it's totally  broken and lacking even basic functionality (like --depclean)23:47
trumeeslonopotamus: no worries23:47
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yep, and flasher --nowatchdog (or whatever it's called) tells NOLO not to do that23:47
slonopotamusand no, apt-get autoremove is broken too.23:48
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DocScrutinizerthat's the whole simple story23:48
jacekowskiquestion is23:48
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: problem is that requires R&D mode which kills battery life23:48
jacekowskiis it good idea for bootloader to kick watchdog23:48
MNZquick question, what's fiasco?23:48
DocScrutinizerhmm, question: WHY23:48
jacekowskiMNZ: combined image23:49
slonopotamuswhy R&D mode kills battery life btw?23:49
jacekowskislonopotamus: it doesn't23:49
luke-jrslonopotamus: it forces keyboard light on constantly23:49
jacekowskislonopotamus: well flashing keyboard leds maybe23:49
DocScrutinizer~dict fiasco23:49
jacekowskiluke-jr: that can be disabled23:49
slonopotamusoh my23:49
infobotDictionary 'fiasco' (1 of 3): abortion, bafflement, balk, betrayed hope, blasted expectation, blighted hope, blow, bollix, botch, buffet, bungle, comedown, cruel disappointment, dash, dashed hope, defeat, disappointment, disaster, discomfiture, disillusionment, dissatisfaction, failure, fallen countenance, fizzle, flop, flunk, foiling, foozle, forlorn hope, frustration, hash, hope deferred, letdown, mess, mirage, muddle, setback, sore ...23:49
luke-jrjacekowski: can it?23:49
infobotL4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL:
luke-jris that fiasco related?23:49
jacekowskibut i was just wondering what's under that factoid23:50
MNZah... I was using the -k option with the image instead of -F ...... that's why it wasn't working23:50
MNZso -k is for...?23:50
MNZa kernel image23:50
luke-jrMNZ: -k just loads a kernel temporarily IIRC23:50
luke-jrmaybe requires another option23:50
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: (forces kbd light) that's easily switched off by sysnode23:50
luke-jrjacekowski: which WD is it, do you know?23:50
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: how?23:50
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: note the forced kbd light is not something userspace23:51
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, is jrbme ready yet? :P23:51
luke-jrand I would guess not kernelspace23:51
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: note sysfs is also something not userspace23:51
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: so this is some non-standard kernel feature?23:52
jacekowskiluke-jr: 32khz one23:52
luke-jrjacekowski: ?23:52
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: is sysfs content anything standard anyway?23:52
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: yes.23:52
luke-jrjacekowski: twl4030_wdt or watchdog?23:52
slonopotamussome new stuff for my n800...23:52
DocScrutinizerso is this particular sysnode then23:52
slonopotamus>>> Emerging binary (3 of 66) sys-apps/coreutils-8.523:52
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keesj (while about android it the first time I see the n900 mentioned on that normal news site)23:54
slonopotamustelefoons... :P23:55
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: you're so cute, why don't you simply look at schematics, find out about which GPIO enables that switch which enables the KBD flickering, and then grep kernel source to find where in sysfs to switch it?23:55
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jacekowskiluke-jr: twl403023:56
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I wasn't aware the schematics were freely available23:56
jacekowskiand watchdog should be it's alias anyways23:56
DocScrutinizer(fiasco) iirc the *original* meaning is flask23:56
luke-jrjacekowski: no, they're different watchdogs…23:56
jacekowskithat watchdog can be disabled23:57
kerioi can confirm, fiasco means flask23:57
kerioit also means failure though23:57
kerio(in italian)23:57
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luke-jrit also means crisis. at least to me.23:57
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DocScrutinizerone thing's for sure - Nokia marketing droids' name finding *is* a fiasko23:58

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