IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-08-28

ShadowJKIt's sequential at first until it reaches the end of the swap area, and then becomes increasingly random thereafter00:00
luke-jrtoo bad there's no way to specify "search when I have no other connection"00:00
luke-jror at least "don't search, but DO start gprs when you get 2G/3G"00:00
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - a nice sequential would be nice with GC00:00
ShadowJKi found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue00:01
SpeedEvilShadowJK: So that if you come across a block with 16 free, and 4 used at the end, you want to swap out 8, you copy the 4, and do an atomic write of 1200:01
luke-jrwhy do you assume swap fragmentation is a problem?00:02
SpeedEvilluke-jr: because it is00:02
luke-jrprove it00:02
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Write speed of nonaligned blocks is hideously bad on SD00:02
SpeedEvilor emmc00:02
luke-jrif it was the problem, workaround would fix it00:02
SpeedEvilwhere blocks are 130K00:02
SpeedEvilor so00:02
luke-jr[16:01:33] <ShadowJK> i found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue00:02
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SpeedEvilI'm not saying swap is causing slowdown.00:03
SpeedEvilJust that swap is clearly broken, and should be fixed00:03
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ShadowJKluke-jr, after running my workaround, available swap bandwidth clearly increased, but, the system was also demanding more swap bandwidth00:03
luke-jranyhow, I bet if you get rid of hildon-desktop, mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer, hildon-home, and osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs, it will work better00:03
tobis87ShadowJK: yes, i have seen this earlier, nice graph.. But how is this caused? Is there no patch availilbe, so that the kernel rearrange the swap every day.00:04
ShadowJKno it never rearranges swap00:04
lcukluke-jr, or identify the leaks - are you using the latest build? I recall madam fixing some leaks around00:04
ShadowJKluke-jr, anyway in my use the mafw-* stuff crashes pretty regulary, and it uses dsp. on N810 the memory management was totally broken on that side00:05
luke-jrlcuk: I'm using what is in the repos00:05
lcukso give latest a retest and see, and if it cures most, brilliant, if not if you can see where and give some pointers..00:05
ShadowJKso im beginning to wonder if I lose some 10 megs of physical ram at each crash00:05
lcukluke-jr, which repos00:05
lcukstandard pr1.2 binaries?00:05
luke-jrlcuk: whatever the M5 repos are00:05
lcukcos the hildon components have had some work done later as you know00:06
lcukin prep for a pr whatever00:06
ShadowJKbecause at the end the device was behaving pretty much like as if it had 64m physical ram00:06
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ShadowJKthe end being before I gave up and rebooted00:06
lcukit would be really good if you could give them a try00:06
lcukask MohammadAG51 about repository with them00:06
tripzeroi wonder how nokia is going to handle harmattan 3rd party packages00:07
tripzeroseems like they just lost the community to upstream meego00:07
tobis87to arrange the memory in order to have large chunks of free memory in swap, instead of small chunks, which cause fragmentation... This remembers me somehow of ms-dos, the drivers also needed to be loadhighed in a special order, so they all fit in the upper memory block.00:09
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ShadowJKtripzero, they'll get a thermonuclear device, drop it on third party devs, start requiring birth certificates, photo id, and a phd from ovi store contributors, break ovi store payments handling, and then proclaim the entire operation an outstanding success00:10
luke-jrkilled those 5 processes and system is back to lag-free00:10
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luke-jrtobis87: that makes no sense00:10
ShadowJKdo you lose open apps if you kill hildon-desktop?00:10
luke-jrShadowJK: no00:11
ShadowJKoh awesome00:11
ShadowJKiirc on n810 you did00:11
luke-jrthose apps appear to have gracefully restarted00:11
luke-jrother apps unaffected00:11
luke-jrhad to -9 hildon-home tho00:11
luke-jruntil I did that, it remained laggy00:11
luke-jrso hildon-home at least is a major lag inducer :P00:11
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luke-jrso… when does cron.daily run on Maemo? :P00:18
ShadowJKdoes cron run at all?00:19
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tobis87luke-jr: how? i thought the swap is used sequential first, later programs use space, which is located after the space which is used by earlier programs... if the swap is nearly full and you close a program, the space is freed, but another programm might need more space than the program you have closed. So the memory the new program allocates is scattered all over the disk.00:21
luke-jrShadowJK: /etc/cron.daily/ exists… :/00:21
SpeedEvilIt's not to program granularity00:22
SpeedEvilIt's whatever per swapout the swap algorithm thought it was right to swapout00:22
luke-jrtobis87: if swap is ever used more than a day, that's a waste of memory00:22
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luke-jra specific block of swap, I mean00:23
luke-jrto be used, pages need to be loaded into RAM00:23
luke-jrso if it stays in swap, you're not using it00:23
ShadowJKif something pushed to swap is later modified or freed completely, it ceases to exist on swap device00:24
luke-jror read00:24
luke-jrwell, I suppose Linux might retain the swap record to skip the "write to swap" later…00:24
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luke-jractually, fragmentation per the usual meaning might be good for swap00:25
luke-jron SSD00:25
luke-jrwrite whatever 32 (4K) pages you want to get rid of first to the same block..00:26
SpeedEvilyou don't care about intra-block fragmentation at all00:26
SpeedEvilonly inter-block00:26
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SpeedEvilThen you need some sort of GC algorithm too00:26
ShadowJKluke-jr, pages both in swap and ram are counted as swap cache :P00:27
ShadowJKit's in /proc/meminfo even00:27
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tobis87ok, only some is swapped out, but it is sequential right? so, if i leave my device on all the time, linux thinks i can swap this out because it is not used since a certain amount of time. and this is randomly? so, you have the problem that the data next to each other does not belong together? i don't know, could someone tell me why the swap get's messed up after some days?00:33
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SpeedEvilIt's not randomly00:34
SpeedEvilsomething keeps track of how often pages are used00:34
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SpeedEvilthe least used ones get thrown out00:34
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SpeedEvilSimply as once you've swapped out the first 768M - say - the first 132K eraseblock may have 8 free 4K pages.00:35
SpeedEvilIf you write these, the device internally has to do a read of 100K, for the initial data, and then a write of the whole 132k block00:36
SpeedEvilSo the speed is 1/4 of what it might otherwise be00:36
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SpeedEvilIf there were only 4K free, then the speed is 1/32 of normal write speed00:37
* satmd has a wd drive that is 4k sectors, but tells the os it has 512byte sectors00:37
* satmd sighs00:37
SpeedEvilExactly the situation with SD00:37
SpeedEvilBut the real sectors in that case are 130K or so00:38
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satmdwell, most filesystems by themselves use 4k boundaries00:38
satmdthat only works if those are at the same offset as the underlying blockdevice00:38
SpeedEvilexact alignment can vary00:38
satmdso, more fun example00:39
satmd4k block you change first 2 byte00:39
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satmdworst case you'll have to redo 2 blocks of the blockdevice, each 4k00:39
ShadowJKexcept on sd/mmc/emmc each is like 128-256k :)00:40
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ShadowJKso 2 bytes can turn into half a meg :D00:40
luke-jrN900 laggy again00:40
MohammadAG51lcuk, ping00:41
kerioi want to be able to write a single bit00:42
keriono, HALF a bit00:42
satmdtristate bits?00:42
MohammadAG51kerio, MALF a bit?00:42
luke-jractually, writing half-bits doesn't cost anything on NAND… <.<00:42
luke-jrso long as the half is always 000:43
keriosatmd: how else are you going to represent FileNotFound?00:43
mnzakiHow do I use the deb package generated by building the kernel package on scratchbox?? The kernel package is just a deb that installs a .fiasco kernel in /boot, what then?00:43
lcukkerio, you have been reading too much dailywtf00:43
MohammadAG51lcuk, what was the repo question about?00:43
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keriolcuk: i have00:43
lcukit wasnt afaik00:43
keriois it unhealthy?00:43
kerioit's brillant00:44
MohammadAG51mnzaki, er, you should get more than one package00:44
tobis87ok, the pages are not randomly swaped out, but after usage. my point is, if not all pages of a program are swapped out, you could have some pages belonging to the same program swapped out later and very far away from the page which also belongs to the program. And reading all pages for a program would be, very slow, because the pages are not after another.00:44
MohammadAG51-modules and a -flasher package00:44
SpeedEviltobis87: no00:44
SpeedEviltobis87: random reads on flash are not particularly slow00:44
mnzakiMohammadAG51, yeah I just unpacked the flasher package and the postinst doess the magic apparently00:44
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MohammadAG51the flasher package is only a postinst anyways :P00:44
tobis87SpeedEvil: all right, i really need to forget all of the harddrive stuff.00:45
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MNZone final thing, just how 'easy' is it to restore the stock kernel? I need to download the entire firmware image?00:46
MohammadAG51no lol00:47
MohammadAG51apt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher00:47
MohammadAG51and you're done00:47
MohammadAG51if you brick the device, just dl the kernel package from the repos on a pc and extract using dpkg-deb00:47
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luke-jror emerge fremantle-sources etc00:52
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ShadowJKtobis87, imagine app A and app B. A shows your smss. B is for camera. You're texting and B has all its pages 0-7 swapped out to swap pages 0-7 covering sd blocks 0-1. You open camera lens cover. B's pages 0-1 are immediately swapped in and modified by B. Swap now has 0-1 unused. two pages from A get swapped out to 8-9. when you switch back to A, two pages from B get swapped to 10-11, and A's two pages are brought back in again. Now the swap file has two h00:52
ShadowJKoles in it. fragmentation00:52
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ShadowJKAnd before you ask, writing in the first hole immediately to fill it makes sd rewrite the entire block00:53
ShadowJKwhich is what we wanted to avoid in the first place00:53
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tobis87ShadowJK: So using ramzswap is a good idea, because it only modifies as much as actually is used. Writing and reading to/from storage causes to much to read/write because of alignment.01:02
tobis87i mean swap on storage, emmc01:03
ShadowJKit doesn't change access patterns in any signigicant way afaik01:03
lcukquestion:  total number of applications in maeme extras-devel at this time (not counting dupes)  how do I get that figure?01:03
tobis87ShadowJK: ?, I thought the alignment was the problem, if ramzswap only write to memory, there shouldn't be a alignment.01:04
ShadowJKwell you still have swap01:05
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ShadowJKunless you want to encounter "Operation disabled due to low memory" constantly01:05
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DrIDKIs it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ?01:08
tobis87if it is a problem of alignment in general, why is this only caused after some time? because the free space of the swap partiton lies between two physical sectors?01:08
DrIDKIs it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ?01:08
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ShadowJKtobis87, because physical sectors on sd are 128-256k and ram sector are 4k.01:09
SpeedEvilDrIDK: sort of01:10
DrIDKSpeedEvil: awesome!!01:11
tobis87ShadowJK: Yes, but ramzswap with a size of 32mb, compresses 80mb of data... so i only need sometimes to write on storage. Ok, i have recenly read an article on these new 4k harddrives.... My problem is really that i'm still with my thoughts on regualar harddrives.01:12
SpeedEvil also01:13
SpeedEvilLook at the last two peaks01:13
SpeedEvilthey correlate with the latest version becoming available in testing, and then 10 days later (ish) extras01:13
ShadowJK4k harddrives are fine, the os deals with 4k chunks of data too, even if it would talk in 512 byte chunks of data over sata. Worsr case is the harddrive writing double amount of data01:14
SpeedEvilWhich incidentally implies that about 70% or so of people have extras-testing turned on.01:14
DrIDKSpeedEvil: how many repos are there :  extra , test, and ?01:15
tobis87Yes, you have to make sure the partition starts on sector, which is a multiplier of 8. I do understand it now, damn aligments... Can the kernel not be patched to modify ram sectors01:15
SpeedEvilAlso rthat maybe 100K peeps have fmms installed.01:15
SpeedEvilDrIDK: testing, devel, extras01:15
ShadowJKtobis87, the hardware memory management unit deals with 4k pages01:16
SpeedEviltobis87: yes01:16
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SpeedEviltobis87: But you really don't want 130k pages01:16
ShadowJKVAX had 512 byte pages I heard someone say :-)01:16
SpeedEvilThis is one of those setting your foot on fire to cure athletes foot problems.01:17
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ShadowJKbig pages only make sense for a few specialized things that do their own extensive memory management, like java01:17
SpeedEvilAlso - the above count counts all downloads - extras, testing, and devel01:17
tobis87No, not for the ram, but can't you, just say collect 130k pages first, and then sync them to disk.01:18
SpeedEvilon memory managment01:18
SpeedEviltobis87: yes.01:18
SpeedEviltobis87: But then the pages written get 'deleted' one by one, until you have a fragmented swap01:18
ShadowJKwhere deletion really means the app owning the page has accessed and modified it01:19
SpeedEviland the kernel therefore dropped the swapped page, so it's 'free'01:19
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tobis87Nah, I avoid java as much as I can, even more after oracle got it. I even consider to not use brtfs in the future, because it was developed from oracle...01:20
SpeedEvilthis may not have actually been ever read from disk though01:20
ShadowJKideally you'd predict the future so that the pages are written in the order in which the apps will in the future access and modify them, which also requires predicting exactly what the user is going to do, which buttons the user will press in which order, and so on :)01:20
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SpeedEvilYou might as well not use ReiserFS due to the fact that the developer throws out perfectly good car-seats.01:20
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BugBlueext4 is just missing the killer features01:21
luke-jrI think ext4 developers place their wives above killer features.01:22
BugBluedon't be so serious :)01:22
BugBluelet's see ho btrfs turns out, they promise killing features01:22
SpeedEvilAnyway  - it hasn't been proved yet that ext3 devs haven't killed people.01:22
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luke-jrBugBlue: it was a pun01:23
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tobis87ShadowJK: So I assume, regarding swap, the best way how it could be done, was already done,01:27
ShadowJKwell not really01:28
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xnt14Gah! just racked up a $200 bill because MyNokia sent messages to germany...01:30
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* xnt14 calls t-mobile01:30
Stskeepswhy would it want to do that?01:30
xnt14Stskeeps: apparently, according to my bill, my N900 sent 40 messages to germany...01:31
xnt14I googled the number01:31
* BugBlue suggests *any* textplan..01:31
xnt14registered to nokia01:31
BugBluexnt14: does it start with 0049?01:31
Stskeepsxnt14: you're in US aren't you?01:31
xnt14Stskeeps: yeah01:31
BugBlue5 dollars a text?01:31
xnt14I have an unlimited texting plan, but its domestic, not internatonal01:31
luke-jrBugBlue: long distance01:31
xnt14BugBlue: hmm01:32
* xnt14 checks01:32
tobis87BugBlue: well i don't know of ext4, but reiser4 might had a KILLER feature... :-D i try to be not to serious, but if micro$oft would ever develop one of the best filesystems, would you use it? i mean look at what oracle now pulls of, after they got sun, i don't like android, put a patent war.... is always not nice.01:32
BugBluewhen I message outside of my plan (like international) I pay about 25 cents a text01:32
xnt14BugBlue: yeah01:32
luke-jrtobis87: arguably NTFS is one of the best01:32
BugBlue(eurocents, I don't know what the dollar right now does, but it can't be 5$)01:32
BugBluetobis87: no. I won't use ZFS either01:33
luke-jrhow many eurocents in a euro?01:33
BugBlueluke-jr: 10001:33
tobis87luke-jr: which is a better version of hpfs... which was developed from ibm and microsoft together.01:33
BugBlueit's a lot in seperate coins :)01:33
xnt14perhaps I should replace mynokia's daemon binary with a shell script...01:34
luke-jrthere should be 16 shilling to a dollar, and 16 cents to a shilling01:34
BugBluethe last time I tried to pay in the UK there were 100 pence in a pound01:35
kerioluke-jr: so a cent is actually a 256th?01:35
BugBluekerio: 1 bit of a byte01:35
* BugBlue off01:35
BugBluetrying to reclaim my bed01:35
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Stskeepsxnt14: to my knowledge it should allow you to unsubscribe or opt-out in the US, but i might be wrong01:36
keriofrom the latin centum, -i, meaning a hundred01:36
Stskeepsxnt14: but running up 200mb worth of messages seem a bit wild and you should complain in a shop01:36
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xnt14Stskeeps: I tried, it failed, it also sent me a message (from a US shortcode) saying that unsubscription failed01:37
Stskeepsxnt14: i'd go complain where you bought it then.. but then again, it does say on the box costs may be encountered01:37
tobis87i still hear ballmer being amousted of the therm k-locs used by ibm, for lines of code... He said microsoft could do more efficiant code, in less... blah, blah... blast from the past, serious i think os/2 couldn't have been as bad as windows got.01:37
xnt14Stskeeps: the N900?01:38
Stskeepsxnt14: right01:38
xnt14question is, whats the point in complaining to amazon? I like my N900... besides MyNokia...01:39
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xnt14 - why is this marked as unconfirmed? it looks like it has solid evidence behind it.01:41
povbotBug 10506: 'My nokia' unsubscribe attempt costs money. This is in breach of the UK regulations on premium rate texts.01:41
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SpeedEvilI'm unsure.01:45
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cehtehwoot ... i just accidentally found out the emergency call feature of the n900 when its locked01:49
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kerio:o emergency call?01:56
psycho_oreosthere's nothing new about that01:57
keriohow do you access it?01:57
crashanddiexnt14: because this is hairy issue. If they confirm the bug, they're basically accepting guilt. I know the council tried to do something, but it ended up being pretty moot as I recall01:57
psycho_oreoswhen you have screen lock and you have to enter phone lock code you dial in the emergency phone numbers and there will be a call button01:57
crashanddiepsycho_oreos: which is standard behaviour on nearly any phone in the world01:58
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crashanddiepsycho_oreos: take any old phone, and when you *boot* it, and it asks for the PIN, just type 112 or 911, and it will offer to dial emergency01:58
lcukmy potential meego summit brief:01:59
lcukMaemo Community, Standing on the shoulders of giants.
lcukcan someone give me a quick review :$01:59
psycho_oreoscrashanddie, I was merely pointing out what cehteh said was not of a big relevance01:59
crashanddiepsycho_oreos: and I was merely furthering that point01:59
tobis87where did these numbers actually came from?02:00
psycho_oreoscrashanddie, better yet is to direct that to cehteh rather than me :p02:00
crashanddiewell, you keep highlighting him, so no need ;)02:00
lcuktobis87, which numbers? the 25k members is direct from stats gathered last year02:00
cehteh.. type 911 or 112 or 000 into the passcode dialog02:00
psycho_oreosnot until now02:00
cehtehprolly nothing new, but i dint know it02:00
lcukand the nearly 6k is from directly checking extras-devel a little while ago02:00
cehteha "Emergency Call" button appears then (better do not hit it)02:01
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tobis87no, 112 or 911...? why did they choice these, easy to remember, or why02:01
SpeedEvillcuk: Is ecosystem really hyphenated?02:01
crashanddielcuk: is that the lcuk who started liqbase talking, or the marketing guy who was invited to Nokia HQ?02:01
crashanddieSpeedEvil: it isn't02:01
SpeedEvillcuk: I would go "this entire ecosystem" rather than "the entire"02:01
lcukcrashanddie, this is the person who knows where meego stands now with reinventing the wheel.02:01
SpeedEvilActually - "this ecosystem"02:02
crashanddie"grand ecosystem"02:02
SpeedEvilIt's also too wordy02:02
tobis87anyway my favorite: 0118 999 881 999 119 72 <- should have been in the n900 as an easteregg :-D02:03
lcukSpeedEvil, its also very near the deadline and I have been ill02:03
SpeedEvil'The entire eco-system has worked steadily to produce a rock solid  platform capable of supporting every usecase possible with some of the  most passionate developers on the planet'02:03
lcukand its only an abstract02:03
SpeedEvilFair enough02:03
crashanddie"capable of supporting every usecase possible"?02:03
crashanddieThat's quite detached from the truth, isn't it?02:03
lcuktell me something maemo *cannot* do02:03
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crashanddieSynch with exchange?02:04
lcuki thought it could at some level02:04
crashanddiedoesn't work02:04
SpeedEvillcuk: Capable of supporting is somehwat meaningless if nobody actually knows the bits to poke to do it as they involve closed bits.02:04
crashanddiewell, nice idea, completely screwed though02:04
lcukthen it will be fixed02:04
SpeedEvilStuff does not always get fixed.02:04
crashanddielcuk: the product's been out for a year nearly, it should've been fixed02:05
crashanddieespecially considering it was part of the marketing material02:05
lcukwell talk to different parties02:05
lcuki am on about community stuff :P02:05
crashanddieand no, synching contacts through MfE and email through IMAP isn't "working"02:05
SpeedEvilThere is a deadline. You have perhaps 2-3 years of ongoing development by different people on the n900.02:05
SpeedEvilAfter that time, the people fall away, and it's left to bitrot.02:05
lcukok, somewhat bikeshedding :P should I submit this as is and then bicker?02:06
crashanddiemy speculation: the same will happen to MeeGo02:06
crashanddielcuk: one thing I'd change02:06
* lcuk is all up for change02:06
lcuk will need to write the full keynote anyway02:06
crashanddiesecond line into the abstract: "creating everything from tiny scratch their own itch hacks"02:06
lcukand will hope to get input on it :)02:07
crashanddiethat reads just so wrong02:07
lcukok so reword it, ill go make a brew02:07
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crashanddie"... have been involved in the community at different stages creating a wealth of products and knowledge, ranging from little hacks that soothed an itch, to full-blown games, kernel modules and even quality assurance procedures"02:10
pytherI have a mythfrontend and I would like to use my N900 to control it, as a remote02:10
pytherDoes anyone know of any prgorams that will allow me to do this?02:10
crashanddiewhat the hell is a mythfrontend?02:10
lcukta crashanddie that does read better :)02:11
pythermyth tv (the frontend; gui application)02:11
crashanddie"Enter Meego, slick, shiny, cross platform and fully supported. A veritable Prince Charming offering to cure all the deficiencies."02:12
SpeedEvillcuk: - thoughts02:12
crashanddieThat one made me smile, choke, almost, too.02:12
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lcukSpeedEvil, combined with the line change crashanddie just supplied I think that works well02:13
n900uki directed by the wiki that i can get help here02:14
lcuk:) thanks02:14
lcukSpeedEvil, it even earmarks the "but" quite well02:14
crashanddien900uk: sure, how can we help?02:15
crashanddielcuk: you're the butt with earmarks :D02:15
* SpeedEvil solves n900uks problem.02:15
* SpeedEvil puts down the anvil.02:15
n900uki cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file02:15
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psycho_oreosit might be a perms issue02:16
lcukok crashanddie SpeedEvil this looks reasonable to submit for now
crashanddieok, wifi -> macbookpro -> ethernet bridge -> vmware -> ubuntu -> tftp -> ethernet cable -> 5 year old laptop downloading debian; definitely not fast02:16
crashanddielcuk: if it's just a draft, yup02:16
lcukcrashanddie, its enough for a submission02:17
lcukit has to be expanded into a full keynote02:17
lcukby the time of the summit02:17
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SpeedEvilAlso - whart's the audience.02:17
lcukand I have to get over my nerves02:17
SpeedEvilIs hackers appropriate.02:17
crashanddieSpeedEvil: yes02:17
SpeedEvillcuk: Imagine the audience completely naked.02:17
crashanddieSpeedEvil: that so doesn't work02:17
SpeedEvillcuk: And covered in marmite.02:17
lcukSpeedEvil, will discuss this later02:17
lcuki might have more on stage with me02:18
crashanddieSpeedEvil: last time I tried that, some hot chick gave me wood, I could not move from behind the projector02:18
lcuki bet that made an uncomfortable shadow02:18
crashanddieI was on the good side of the projector02:18
crashanddie(not the shiny side)02:18
tobis87n900uk: which file, and where?02:18
SpeedEviln900: and trying to acess it how.02:19
crashanddieSpeedEvil: you're gone further than we thought... you talk to your n900 now?02:19
crashanddieover IRC?02:19
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: yes.02:19
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Sometimes it's the easiest way to copy and paste02:19
n900ukso far in my download folder and my camera. have not tried the rest yet02:20
crashanddieSpeedEvil: in nomine patris et fillii et spiritus sancti02:20
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pytherCan I run a java app on my N900?02:21
crashanddiepyther: only through the debian chroot02:21
pytheranyremote is missing from the repos02:21
crashanddielcuk: you sponsored for the meegocon?02:22
SpeedEvilIs there any deep reason why java plugins couldn't be supported in the browser? Or is it just nobodies compiled it?02:22
tobis87n900uk: Open Xterm, cd MyDocs; ls -a; ->
derfAFAIK no one's gotten Java working on the device at all.02:22
crashanddieSpeedEvil: probably because nobody is interested in browser java plugins02:23
b-man`pyther: icedtea6 is available for maemo02:23
b-man`so yes, you can run java apps02:23
pytherahh ok, cool02:24
crashanddieb-man`: how fast is it?02:24
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derfWell, shows how much I know.02:24
crashanddiederf: ditto02:24
crashanddiethough, icedtea?02:24
b-man`crashanddie: i've been able to run netbeans on my n900 ;)02:24
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derfIt could be worse.02:25
crashanddiewho comes up with these crap names?02:25
derfIt could be blackdown.02:25
crashanddienext we'll have an east coast rapper called nosy puss02:25
tobis87tobis87: sorry, you should do ls -ao instead...02:26
b-man`there was already an application available called fapman LOL02:26
crashanddietobis87: people died on the stake for less than that02:26
tobis87argh, i did mean n900uk:02:26
b-man`*available for maemo02:26
crashanddieb-man`: yeah, I just can't help myself and smile everytime I see that name02:27
tobis87crashanddie: well, people in general learn by failure... even evolution works that way.02:27
crashanddieb-man`: "Fapman, for uber geeks, and uber fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap"02:27
crashanddieI thought it was a porn media manager before reading the description02:28
b-man`he really should have thought of a better name xD02:28
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crashanddieanyway, off to bed02:30
crashanddie'later all02:30
MNZgood night02:30
tobis87we also have MaeGirls, and i was interested, maybe some way to get in contact to the other side of the maemo community02:31
tobis87but, no it is only a monitor for women's cycle :-D02:31
crashanddieyeah, other ideas for the name was "maenstrual"02:32
n900uktobis87: done02:32
tobis87n900uk: link?02:33
lcukretweet this ppl:
lcukplease :$02:34
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tobis87n900uk: sorry, you forgot a space in the command do "lsX-ao" where X stands for a space.02:35
crashanddielcuk: I will not02:37
lcukwhy will you not :P02:38
crashanddiebecause I'm not a twit02:38
crashanddieI do not twitter02:39
MNZno one 'twitters'. We tweet.02:39
lcukok mnz, will you tweet please02:39
crashanddies/t /t use/02:39
infobotcrashanddie meant: I do not usetwitter02:39
MNZlcuk, sure thing.02:40
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tobis87~nuke messybox02:42
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M!02:42
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tobis87n900uk: the problem is, that i don't have my n900 right here, and the ls is diffrent from the normal ls on linux pc's... so this command is also not correct try "lsX-al" where X stands for a space, please... could be caused by a permission problem02:45
tobis87btw, how did you get a autorun.inf in there?02:46
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FIQ~seen khertan02:47
infobotkhertan is currently on #maemo (3h 19m 29s), last said: 'How i can add shortcut on menu on maemo with qt ... QAction with shortcut are ignore'.02:47
tobis87n900uk: yes02:47
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n900uki dont know much about that. am just a learner02:48
tobis87n900uk: yes, thats ok, could you please do ls -al in pastebin.com02:49
n900uki opened the xterminal afresh and typed as advised: no such file or directory02:53
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tobis87did you do: cd_MyDocs (after that) ls_-al (underlines are space)?02:55
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tobis87yes, since you typed first time without space, but yes underlines (_) should be space02:57
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tobis87i mean you should type in " " instead of "_"02:57
n900ukso: ls al02:58
tobis87after you done "cd MyDocs", yes02:59
tobis87you can also use TAB, to complete the folder name, e. g. "cd M(press TAB)", should complete to "cd MyDocs"03:00
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tobis87no, not ls al, ls -al03:00
tobis87don't forget the minus sign, it is for parameters03:01
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n900uktobis87: posted03:04
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MNZn900uk, what file are you trying to delete?03:06
tobis87ok, shouldn't be a permission problem,03:06
n900ukat first a torrent file, would not delete the my pictures will not as well03:07
tobis87MNZ: (01:15:44) n900uk: i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file03:08
n900ukthanks :)03:09
tobis87n900uk: open xterm; cd MyDocs/.images and do ls, then try to delete file with "rm filename" (you can use TAB to autocomplete filename e.g. f(TAB) foo)03:10
* lcuk crossposts :P03:11
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tobis87n900uk: btw, you don't need to be root (sudo gainroot), how can't you do ls, while being root? :) Which kernel do you use?03:15
n900ukam doing it03:15
n900uki always start with sudo gainroot03:16
yigalis there some way to emulate 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons in Easy Debian?03:16
tobis87you could easily mess up things with it!03:16
n900uki taught it was admin pass03:17
yigalsudo make mel a sandwich03:17
yigaloops I mean me03:18
n900ukso should av typed cd/ MyDocs first03:18
mortinitobis87: uh, doing 'sudo whatever' is doing things as root, it offers no protection (unless someone specifically configued it thusly)03:18
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mortinieven then, it'd likely not protect from every possible stupidity.03:18
tobis87yes, but you know it is not windows vista,7; on /home/user or ~ you don't need to be root. might be a problem, that you have created a file as root, and you can't delete it as an user03:18
yigalno Im just pointing out how one little mistyped thing with su can fu up.03:19
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tobis87mortini: i know, (02:15:05) tobis87: n900uk: btw, you DON'T need to be root03:19
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n900uki have the files listed now, can i still proceed with the command line03:20
tobis87i don't know which files you want to delete... to delete files, you do "rm filename"03:21
n900ukjust  about to ''rm filename"03:21
yigalor if folder, rm -r foldername03:21
tobis87don't tell him03:22
tobis87he only wants to remove a picture and a torrent03:22
tobis87filename is the name of the picture or torrent03:22
tobis87with rm -r you can easily mess up more stuff, you only want to delete a picture, not _all_ pictures03:23
yigaltobis87 if we shouldn@03:24
yigalt tell him that he shouldn't be using cl03:24
yigaldamn n900 keyboard03:25
tobis87maybe, today, you are only a n900 user, if you have flashed it once,03:25
n900ukactually, the file is not in the list. the holding folder is camera and not image03:25
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tobis87but camera is not in your list on
MNZn900uk, look in the folder called DCIM03:26
tobis87yes, forgot that... sorry03:26
n900ukyes. i noticed it dint come up03:26
yigalman FCam rocks, I wish I had as much control for my digital camera as I do on my n900's.03:29
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yigalit's too bad I like using xfig but I need 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons.03:32
n900ukso it is cd  MyDocs/ .DCIM03:32
tobis87no, MyDocs/DCIM03:33
tobis87DCIM is not hidden03:33
tobis87hidden folder/files on linux start with .03:33
tobis87cd MyDocs/DCIM after that do ls | (-> up( the key under ctrl) and strg) and choise | ) grep -i filename03:36
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tobis87so the the command is ls | grep -i filename03:38
tobis87sorry, not strg... strg is the same as ctrl in german03:39
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n900ukthe result jumped back to images03:39
tobis87if you a certaint abou the filename, you could also just do rm filename03:40
n900ukcd MyDocs/DCIMn/bin/sh: cd: can't cd to MyDocs/DCIMn/home/user/MyDocs/.images # ls03:41
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tobis87MyDocs/DCIMn/home/user/MyDocs/.images ??? you did just do cd MyDocs/DCIM , right?03:42
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n900ukyes. I taught DCIM should be memory card/slot03:43
n900ukthen ls03:43
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tobis87NO, memory card is on /media/mmc ; /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM or03:43
yigalls /media/mmc1/DCIM03:44
n900uk no memory card. just internal memory03:44
tobis87/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM or  ~/MyDocs/DCIM is in internal03:44
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tobis87n900uk: I don't want to be offensive, but for which criteria did you buyed the n900?03:46
n900uki typed jus cd MyDocs/DCIM then ls03:47
tobis87and, is there threre the picture you can't delete?03:47
n900ukcriteria in what sense. dint quite catch that. or do u mean what pourpose?03:48
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tobis87n900uk: You wanted a new phone, why did you choose the n900? Do, you know that the n900 wasn't designed as a phone?03:49
n900ukno the picture is not there.03:49
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lcukif oyu have usb plugged in03:50
tobis87Do you use linux on your pc?03:50
n900ukI taught i could learn a thing or two03:50
lcukand have connected it to computer to view files03:50
lcukthen its not visible03:50
lcukfrom shell03:50
lcukso disconnect usb lead to be sure03:50
lcukthen retry03:50
* lcuk has tripped over that a few times03:50
n900uknever connected to my pc03:51
lcukdo the pictures come up in the picture viewer?03:51
tobis87I don't mind learning, but there is man on linux... you could have checked all this what i have typed for you... man ls03:51
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tobis87man rm03:51
lcuktobis87, man isnt included on device03:52
lcukand everyone started somewhere03:52
tobis87but on you pc, it is...03:52
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lcuknot if you have windows its not03:52
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lcukso, n900uk do the pictures correctly show up in the UI picture viewer?03:53
tobis87lcuk: I have a high tolerance, but at some point it is too much... Sorry, but I really need to get some sleep-03:53
n900ukokay. you been very helpful.03:53
lcukn900uk, if all you want to do is delete a picture, step away from the console03:54
lcukview the picture in the picture viewer app03:54
lcukand select delete..03:54
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lcukor am I missing some context here..03:54
tobis87i do like, to help people... but serious all this ls stuff, it's not that hard if you get used to it :)03:54
FIQi think it failed due to read-only iirc, came in the middle of this03:54
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lcuktobis87, then learn how to help people, sometimes diving into the console isn't the correct method.03:55
FIQ(02:08:14) (tobis87) MNZ: (01:15:44) n900uk: i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file03:55
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n900ukpicture will not delete. but i dont understand why it will not list the camera folder03:56
lcukn900uk, ok, and you cannot make new images with the camer either?03:56
MNZlcuk, tobis87 was only trying to help. n900uk was complaining that the ui doesn't let him delete some files03:56
* lcuk nods03:56
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tobis87lcuk: well, if hilfdonfm fails, do you recommend a flash? at least people learn from using the shell03:56
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lcuktobis87, finding out why it fails would be better, but sometimes jumping into console leads to what you found03:57
* lcuk always thinks of his mum using device03:57
n900ukyes camera is not taking pictures again03:58
lcukand asking same question03:58
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tobis87he only wants to remove some files, maybe MyDocs vfat just need fsck.vfat03:58
lcukwell going to the console and deleting as root won't change that will it ? :P03:58
tobis87i did not said him, he should be root, he knew gainroot already... and rm -r was told him by someone else03:59
lcukhas n900uk already pasted "mount" output03:59
lcukthat doesnt need root :P03:59
lcuk-r for deleting a single photo04:00
* lcuk gulps04:00
tobis87 lcuk: (02:15:05) tobis87: n900uk: btw, you don't need to be root (sudo gainroot), how can't you do ls, while being root? :) Which kernel do you u04:01
tobis87lcuk: (02:21:50) yigal: or if folder, rm -r foldername04:01
* lcuk hides04:02
yigaldon't use the console if you don't know what you are doing.04:02
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yigalsudo rm -rf /, lmao04:03
tobis87learning, the shell is a good thing... but nobody should learn dangour command, if you don't know what they do04:03
tobis87dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/whatever04:03
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n900uk is this irrivasible04:04
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yigalmy thought is has he tried creating a file in ~/MyDocs perhaps the partition is in ro mode04:05
FIQ|n900why would it be04:05
n900uk so i cannot use the camer again and also delete files04:06
lcukpastebin the output of the "mount" command04:06
lcukand we would know04:06
FIQ| there04:06
lcukthen we could perhaps find a way round it for you :)04:06
yigalwe'll find a way now or some later dat04:07
tobis87do as i write,,, mount >; umount /home/user/MyDocs: fsck.vfat -a /dev/mmcblk0p104:07
yigaloops s/dat/day04:07
n900uk okay04:07
lcuktobis87, no04:07
FIQ|n900would redirecting to a site actually work04:08
lcukthats not the point04:08
tobis87as root, but be carefull. no mistyping... and please do spaces, as i don.... wait; lcuk: why not?04:08
lcukits whats done after04:08
FIQ|n900but still04:08
lcuktobis87, you do not go in blind04:08
lcukif the FS is readonly theres a reason for it, sure afterwards maybe fixing it is inevitable04:08
lcukbut ffs, this is someones data04:09
zeltakgoodnight guys..anyone using the snes emulator by any chance?04:09
FIQ|n900not atm, but i have it installed and have used it04:09
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lcukn900uk, just run the mount command and copy/paste the text it shows into a new window04:10
zeltakFIQ|n900: did it run reboots my system every few minutes04:10
zeltakand it happens in different roms so its not the rom04:11
FIQ|n900note that the shortcut ctrl+c (if that's what you use) will not work in terminal (special meaning), you'll have to do it from meu04:11
FIQ|n900zeltak, m64p does that for me if i turn it on sometimes04:11
FIQ|n900but not drnoksnes04:11
MNZyigal, have you got fcam working? I just installed it and rebooted and all I get is a grey screen and default cam not working :/04:11
lcukMNZ, default kernel.04:12
zeltakFIQ|n900: what is m6ep?04:12
MNZlcuk, it doesn't work on the default kernel?04:12
zeltaki wonder why its there a log somwhere?04:12
lcukMNZ, it does work there04:12
lcukI believe if you are on a different kernel it doesn't run04:12
MNZI have the default kernel (so far)04:12
lcukthen, idk04:13
FIQ|n900zeltak, dunno sorry04:13
zeltakkk thx FIQ|n90004:13
luke-jrsomeone should test my fcam kernel04:13
luke-jrtheoretically, it has all the fcam modifications in the main kernel04:14
FIQ|n900I like the fact that my first N900 did come with PR1.0.1, then i managed to broke it, and they sent a new one, with PR1.004:15
FIQ|n900a lots of things looked strange. :P04:15
yigalMNZ ya it's working nicely, but I don't know why it's wrking as opposed to not working?  I'm using power kernel also04:15
luke-jryigal: does the normal Camera app work when you have fcam modules loaded?04:15
luke-jror do you need to disable fcam and reboot?04:16
MNZdid they break compatibility with the default kernel or what?04:16
FIQ|n900application menu was just buttons, strange bash icon, no imei check with *#06#, no support for my sim card04:16
infobotFIQ|n900 meant: application menu was just buttons, strange xterm icon, no imei check with *#06#, no support for my sim card04:16
zeltakbtw anyonw knoqa if there a c64 emulator?04:16
luke-jrzeltak: pretty sure04:17
luke-jryuo can search the app db by typing04:17
MNZ[ 1106.085601] adp1653 2-0030: failed writing fault register04:17
MNZ[ 1106.086822] video4linux video0: can't power up slaves04:17
* FIQ|n900 does an apt-cache search commodore04:17
luke-jr'emulator' should do the trick04:17
zeltakkk thx04:17
luke-jrFIQ|n900: aptitude search emulator04:17
FIQ|n900heard of it04:18
FIQ|n900never used04:18
luke-jrit's what Debian uses04:18
FIQ|n900merge of apt-*?04:18
yigalluke-jr I don't think so04:18
luke-jrFIQ|n900: and fixes a bunch of bugs04:18
MNZFIQ|n900, it's another frontend to dpkg04:18
luke-jrFIQ|n900: specifically, if you remove something, it automatically removes dependencies it pulled in04:18
luke-jrif they're not needed04:18
FIQ|n900but it still uses dpkg and such things as bavkend. no?04:18
luke-jrwhereas apt would clutter the OS04:18
luke-jrtechnically, there's a ncurses TUI builtin too, but I never use that04:19
FIQ|n900well, i will take a look at it. :P04:19
luke-jrbe careful though ☺04:19
luke-jrsome people have had problems crop up when they switch from apt to aptitude04:19
MohammadAGapt-get autoremove removes dependencies04:19
luke-jrspecifically, aptitude thought they didn't want packages, so it removed them :P04:20
MohammadAGaptitude isn't really stable on the N90004:20
luke-jrMohammadAG: must be something new04:20
FIQ|n900yeah, runs that sometimes04:20
luke-jraptitude is stable enough w/o the TUI04:20
MNZluke-jr, no, very old.04:20
MohammadAGsegfautls for me after I reflashed04:20
MohammadAGand I'm the damn maintainer04:20
MNZall that is just front ends to the dpkg system04:20
luke-jrMohammadAG: if you use it the same way as apt?04:20
MohammadAGthen I'd use apt04:20
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MohammadAGI only packaged it as a test04:21
luke-jreasier to use aptitude, no need to guess which apt-* command :p04:21
yigalubuntu is considering removing aptitude from base install, terrible04:21
yigalor has done so haven't kept up04:21
FIQ|n900yeah, that annoys me, but using them makes you learn then. :p04:21
luke-jryigal: Ubuntu is run by idiots though04:22
FIQ|n900@ luke-jr04:22
luke-jrFIQ|n900: I still prefer aptitude04:22
MohammadAGDebian doesn't run on my PC04:22
MohammadAGmissing modules04:22
FIQ|n900but i still manages to write apt-get search many times...04:22
luke-jrMohammadAG: how is that even possible?04:22
MohammadAGnot sure, it can't find my HDD and my optical drives04:22
MohammadAGduring installation04:23
luke-jrMohammadAG: Debian stable or oldstable⁇04:23
luke-jrbut then again, I kinda only use Debian on remote servers04:23
FIQ|n900btw, does aptitude makes fast switches possible?04:23
FIQ|n900as in04:23
luke-jrwhich tend to be more Linux-friendly04:23
FIQ|n900doing more than one thing a time04:23
luke-jrFIQ|n900: I don't think so04:24
MNZMohammadAG, lenny should be considered outdated now. Give squeeze a shot04:24
luke-jrhonestly, I just use Debian as OpenVZ host, and put Gentoo in my VEs04:24
yigalluke-jr trudat, but I need to use it as my laptop has gma 500 gpu and a multitouch screen, Ub. is the only distro. that kind of works, it's a shame I like Archlinux personally04:24
FIQ|n900pacman -Syu ftw04:24
luke-jrMNZ: nonsense04:24
luke-jryigal: so don't buy crappy hardware04:24
MohammadAGI'd take debian over ubuntu any day, but ubuntu is my only choice04:24
yigalluke-jr trudat hindsight being 20/20 and all04:25
MNZMohammadAG, which is why you should use squeeze. Squeeze is still debian, yet it's uptodate04:25
luke-jrMNZ: and not stable04:25
MNZluke-jr, debian like to move slowly, so by ubuntu's standards lenny is outdated04:25
luke-jrUbuntu's standards are meaningless04:25
MNZluke-jr, I've been using it for over 4 or 5 months, stable as should be04:26
FIQ|n900is debian stable even MORE off date than ubuntu..?04:26
luke-jrI mean cmon, they ship GNOME04:26
luke-jras their default DE04:26
MNZluke-jr, so does debian....04:26
yigalluke-jr shouldn't have purchased n900 with PowerVR gpu04:26
MNZluke-jr, well look at it this way, ubuntu stable or debian unstable?04:27
* FIQ|n900 has used Kubuntu before, worked fine until i buyed a new laptop which wlan was a no-go at (no idea why), but atm i just run windows for a while04:27
* lcuk thinks an abacus with printed application cards isn't open source enough for luke-jr04:27
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FIQ|n900did several tries to make an archlinux liveUSB, ended up giving up04:28
FIQ|n900(no other dist worked eihter)04:28
FIQ|n900but when i used kubuntu i used it as i used windows, N900 was the device that got me introduced 'for real' at linux and shell04:30
yigalArch works on my laptop just no multitouch or graphics acceleration it's just bad enough I can't use it to get work done04:30
yigaln900 glad you got turned on to oss04:30
tobis87n900uk: please only do "mount" and post the results on pastebin.com04:31
* MNZ is a slackware user turned to debian04:31
FIQ|n900have to sleep04:31
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MNZgood night04:31
FIQ|n900good night04:32
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yigalI think tha04:32
FIQ|n900£away afk04:32
yigalts debatable but sleep well04:32
FIQ|n900screw my typo skills04:32
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FIQ|n900amyway, afk04:32
yigalfeel that04:32
yigalis amy way hot?04:32
yigalowell I can't type fast enough on n900 to make many mistakes04:34
SpeedEvil1I'm up to around 30wpm04:34
luke-jryigal: I didn't.04:35
yigalappropriate name then04:35
tobis87lcuk: i really need sleep _now_, could you pickup n900uk, as i leave. thanks...04:35
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yigalhow much does he weigh?04:35
* lcuk was wondering the same04:35
yigalcould be demanding04:35
lcukyeah and I am already weakened04:36
MNZpebcac is pretty heavy04:36
SpeedEvil1n900 is lighter than a feather, meego is heavier than mountains. Or something.04:36
yigalit's almlost week end for me04:36
* lcuk is resting after a meal04:36
yigalsounds good bout to eat, just finished baking bread04:37
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lcuknice yigal04:37
lcukdo you have a machine to do it, or proper oven?04:37
yigali have an oven made banana bread this morning04:38
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yigalgoing crazy with the baking04:39
lcukhouse always smells lovely when tracy does baking04:39
yigalgonna make french bread on Sunday, lcuk man I love that smell04:40
SpeedEvilI need to fix my bread machine.04:40
SpeedEvilI hate the fact I have a nice programmable bread machine in perfect working order, and I can't get a replacement pan.04:40
yigalaluminum foil?04:41
lcukSpeedEvil, why can't you contact manufacturer?04:42
lcukmost places keep replacement parts around for years?04:42
SpeedEvillcuk: Where years = 3-404:42
lcukbtw, did I post this in the right forum:
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lcukSpeedEvil, try anyway04:43
SpeedEvillcuk: I did04:43
SpeedEvilthey don't.04:43
lcukok, ebay04:43
SpeedEvilEbay doesn't have it.04:43
lcukthat sux04:43
luke-jrwhat happened to your old one?04:43
SpeedEvilI dropped a teaspoon in it.04:43
SpeedEvilThen diddn't notice and ran it through a bake cycle.04:44
lcukluke-jr, that thread I just posted, read it :p04:44
SpeedEvilThis somewhat damaged the non-stick coating04:44
SpeedEvilI was using it like that, it was mostly OK if oiled, but I lost the paddle.04:44
SpeedEvilIt was a nice one - programmable times, multiple programs, ...04:44
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lcukdid it have a bacon rack?04:45
yigalis the pan where the bread comes out or something else - I'm old skool so I don't know these new fangled contraptions well?04:45
lcukthe ideal bread oven: would prepare the bacon too. mmmmmm04:45
SpeedEvilyigal: It is a non-stick mould 12*20*22cm deep or so.04:48
zeltakanyone mounting nfs/samba drives on the n900? if not what do you use to transfer file from server/pc to n900?04:48
SpeedEvilyigal: Into the bottom of this a paddle.04:48
yigalthis is the baking with Maemo channel zeltak wrong channel04:48
yigalSpeedEvil hmm04:49
zeltakyigal: :)04:49
lcukzeltak, I have only ever tried it the other way round04:50
MNZzeltak, you get a sack of flour, then you install openssh-server and use sftp://root@yourn900'sIP04:50
lcukI have never seen my n900 show up on network on big pc04:50
lcukbut I have connected to the shares from my windows pc04:50
lcukMNZ is right ;)04:50
zeltakyeah i use ssh but i find it really slow :(04:50
lcukthen plugin via usb and copy to the MyDocs?04:51
lcukor get usbnetworking setup also04:51
SpeedEvilyigal: this means that you can take a big tub of flour, dump in the right ingredients into the breadmaker, and get bread in 1-3h (depending on the sort of bread) with 60s effort.04:51
zeltakyeah i do that as well..just thought maybe nfs/samba would be better but thx guys04:51
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lcukwould samba nbe encrypted?04:51
zeltakbtw the usb thing works like 50%...kinda unriable (at least on linux)04:52
lcukie, could it theoretically be faster04:52
yigalSpeedEvil I knew what it did just not exactly what it took to do it04:52
SpeedEvilyigal: Ah04:52
SpeedEvilyigal: This is the cheap sort. The better sort have the paddle from the top.04:52
lcukSpeedEvil, its the ubuntu of linuxes ;)04:52
MNZzeltak, usb is as fast as you can get. I do about 30mb/s copying files04:52
SpeedEvilyigal: The cheap sort the bearing goes unless you lube it.04:52
lcukyigal, is used to the console method of breadmaking :D04:53
zeltakMNZ: yeah i know i meant about 50% of the time i try to connect with usb i get a "can connect" error until i reboot the n90004:53
zeltakdunno why really04:53
yigal./configure rise bake04:53
lcukzeltak, hmm04:54
MNZzeltak, well sorry never seen this.. but have you installed a different kernel or packages from extras-devel?04:54
zeltakwell not a kernel but i have some packages from extras-devel04:54
luke-jrlcuk: I'd be surprised if CPU was a bottleneck with SFTP04:55
luke-jrmore like wifi04:56
MNZluke-jr, wifii should theoretically do about 6mb/s max04:56
MNZI achieve about 0.7-1mb/s04:56
MNZI mean on sftp04:57
yigalMNZ ya pretty slow04:57
luke-jrMNZ: assuming no verification/checksum, headers, or other users04:57
luke-jrand perfect signal04:57
yigalnight all food has made me sleepy04:58
luke-jrzash: and then re-copy when MD5 fails?04:58
zeltakyigal: night04:58
MNZwell, no other users yes, and perfect signal yes (the AP is 2 meters away, with line of sight!). The overheads should cost 5 times as much as the payload right?04:58
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luke-jrline of sight is not always the deciding factor for wifi04:59
infobotMNZ meant: well, no other users yes, and perfect signal yes (the AP is 2 meters away, with line of sight!). The overheads shouldn't cost 5 times as much as the payload right?04:59
luke-jrin fact, if you're perfectly lined up with the antenna, you'll get no signal ;)04:59
SpeedEvilI get 1.3M/s or so on large scps04:59
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zeltakdarn mupen64plus also reboot my drsnes...05:18
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ieatlintfor shame, that makes light of insider trading09:20
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RST38hAnyone else having problems with Extras*?10:00
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DocScrutinizeryeah, usually too expensive10:28
DocScrutinizerwhat sort of problems?10:28
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l-fy_i'm trying to sync my n900 with ovi10:48
l-fy_it's there any way?10:48
RST38hNew crop of t.m.o members (Join date Apr 2010):
RST38hLooks pretty automated, probably won't pass the Turing test.10:53
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JaffaMorning, all11:05
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ShadowJKthat was weird11:10
ShadowJKno sound during call until I switched off silent profile11:10
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l-fy_o crap11:44
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l-fy_nokia rulez11:54
swc|666l-fy_, explain11:55
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infobotswc|666 meant: l-fy_, exrapoate11:56
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l-fy_i've just sync my e71 with n90011:57
l-fy_in just a push11:57
l-fy_after seaching for an option for like 2 days11:57
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Venemohey guys11:58
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lcukStskeeps, all the more important for me to get it right12:19
* lcuk will have to find a way to get over presenting nerves :P12:19
Stskeeps:nod: wasn't disagreeing with proposal, just presentation of the proposal (was implicating it was a keynote)12:19
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N900ukI followed the link from the wiki page , hoping to get some help12:22
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lcukN900uk, gulp, followed what link12:24
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N900uksorry i was here last night12:25
lcukindeed, and we asked you to paste something if i remember rightly and you didnt12:25
N900ukyes i did, but I think my result might be wrong, mybe i got the command wrong12:26
lcuki may have missed it, have you still got the same problem12:27
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lcukthen can you show me the pastebin you made12:28
VenemoN900uk: what is your issue?12:28
N900ukhere is the link
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lcukN900uk, sigh, you did not do as requested and you will have to speak with the guy who was doing it12:30
N900ukVenemo: i am not able to delet my files anymore because the phone only sees the as read only and the camera no longer works12:31
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N900uklcuk: okay12:31
_trineits not uNmount its umount12:32
VenemoN900uk: how about a reflash?12:32
jogaalso there should be a semicolon after MyDocs12:32
N900uklcuk: did you see the mistake in the command line12:33
lcukthe whole line is a mistake and I said as much last night N900uk12:33
N900ukvenemo: reflash means i loose everything on the phone right12:34
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lcukthe whole line is a mistake and I said as much last night N900uk, and you responded to myself and FIQ who both tried to show you the simplest first step, and still went and did what tobis said12:35
lcukN900uk, backup your phone, copy all the pictures and things off it and reflash12:35
lcukit will be your simplest as Venemo suggests12:35
VenemoN900uk: yes12:35
lcukif your home computer gets screwed you reformat it12:35
VenemoN900uk: of yourse, make a backup to your computer before proceeding12:36
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ShadowJKl-fy_, hehe, I found out how to do that on the first day of owning N900 :)12:36
TermanaLcuk - only if your on windows12:36
ShadowJKmigrated my contacts and stuff from E7512:37
TermanaLcuk - :P12:37
lcukTermana, nahh I would be the same in linux12:37
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* lcuk is nearing that point with ubuntu12:37
lcukits being odd since I updated a component from a ppa12:37
l-fy_well, i'm moving back to e7112:38
lcukthat took my stable system made it show odd things on boot and lost my logout button on toolbar12:38
Venemolcuk: can you help me with some weirdness with Maemo's window manager?12:40
lcukyou can ask and we can have a discussion as you know, but I am having coffee12:41
ShadowJKmy E75 currently serves as modem :)12:41
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l-fy_well, e71 it's what i want12:41
Venemolcuk: my homescreen widgets are fighting against the evil window manager, but they are losing the battle :(12:42
lcukhmm do explain12:42
Venemolcuk: the problem is this: by default, controls on a Qt homescreen widget require two clicks to work: one that focuses the widget, and one more that actually does something12:43
Venemolcuk: for the "official" homescreen loader, the guy fixed this by setting the WM input hint of the widget to 012:43
Venemolcuk: but in this case, the QTextEdit I have doesn't work (it doesn't get any focus)12:44
Venemolcuk: in this case, if I manually focus it, it never focuses out when I click out of my homescreen widget...12:44
lcukVenemo, the official stance is that qt widgets shouldnt be allowed to get input like gtk widgets cannot :P12:44
Venemolcuk: yeah, I know :)12:44
lcukis this a new change?12:44
Venemolcuk: I'm sort of breaking the rules12:45
lcukas in, are you running qwertys tip?12:45
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lcukoh crap12:45
lcukmohammads tip12:45
Venemolcuk: what is that?12:45
VenemoD-Iivil: good morning12:45
D-IivilDoes someone know if /usr/bin/personalisation_app is open source? And if so, in what package it comes with?12:45
* D-Iivil is trying to figure out if parameters can be passed to that program...12:46
VenemoD-Iivil: perhaps Stskeeps knows something about it12:46
Stskeepsi think it's not, but i may be wron12:46
lcukVenemo, I meant the SSU that MohammadAG51 is putting together12:46
lcukhave you installed that, or are you still on pr1.2 hildon12:47
Venemolcuk: yeah, but this is independent from his work12:47
D-IivilStskeeps, actually what I want to know is what does that do when theme is changed.12:47
Venemolcuk: it behaves this way on both PR 1.2 and his desktop12:47
D-IivilStskeeps, it does something else than just runs hildon-theme-cacher and restarts hildon-home.12:47
lcukVenemo, then if this is wanted in a wider scope, it will have to be investigated deeper12:48
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lcukperhaps you and MohammadAG (speak of the devil!) could walk through the scenario in a gdb session and see whats happening12:48
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Venemolcuk: hmm, good idea if MohammadAG is willing :)12:49
D-IivilStskeeps, and ofcourse sets desktop backgrounds and propably restarts also hildon-desktop. But there's still something else it does also because even rebooting does not clear all theme "caches", but running the personalisation_app does.12:49
VenemoMohammadAG: how hard would this be? is this stuff even managed by Hildon-Desktop?12:50
* MohammadAG opens up logs12:50
* lcuk slides a coffee over at MohammadAG 12:52
MohammadAGhildon-home and Qt12:53
MohammadAGwith the qt homescreen loader as the duct tape between both :P12:54
VenemoMohammadAG: this is not specific to Qt (at least I don't think it is)12:54
VenemoMohammadAG: and I don't use the Qt homescreen loader :)12:54
MohammadAGhmm, loading it manually?12:54
VenemoMohammadAG: yes!12:54
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MohammadAGhildon-home it is12:54
MohammadAGsec, just checking out the problem with gpgme12:56
VenemoMohammadAG: k12:56
VenemoMohammadAG: no hurry12:57
VenemoMohammadAG, lcuk: hm, I think I have solved it with a clever hack12:57
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snikoHas anyone successfully tried the new fennec alpha? I get a 404 message on the repository..13:04
RST38hI am not only getting "handler unexpectedly quit" when trying to install fennec alpha, but the Extras* appear to have broken indices too now13:05
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MohammadAGHandler Silently Failed RST38h13:06
MohammadAGwant a fix?13:06
lcukVenemo, everything is solvable with a clever hack13:07
MohammadAGRST38h, install and pin it
Venemolcuk: yeah...13:07
MohammadAGRST38h, you should be able to install apps from the ovi store without vising the ovi store13:08
MohammadAGRST38h, the deb is based on a lost source, someone took it off the packages site and I forgot which pc it was on13:08
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slonopotamuslcuk, except clever hacks themselves13:14
lcukno, those can be cascaded into ub3r hacks13:15
lcukvery rare13:15
lcuklike a double rainbow13:15
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Venemolcuk: rare like a white raven?13:16
lcukVenemo, rare like seeing a ninja rare13:16
Venemolcuk: :D13:16
slonopotamusstuff like that can make kittens exstinguish (i hope i spelled it correctly)13:18
slonopotamuss/s e/s totally e/13:18
infobotslonopotamus meant: stuff like that can make kittens totally exstinguish (i hope i spelled it correctly)13:18
lcukwhy would kittens need extinguishing?13:19
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Venemolcuk: anyways, this hack is not clever enough yet13:22
Venemolcuk: I can still trick it into a state when the issue re-appears in some form13:24
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RST38hMohammad: Kinda afraid to replace apt =)13:33
RST38hMohammad: What is the reason for that silently failed message, anyway?13:33
lcukMohammadAG, hmm i agree here, please dont do that13:34
RST38hMohammad: Ah =)13:34
MohammadAGRST38h, you can't install from user/hidden13:34
RST38hMohammad: You mean, I can even install paid stuff from Ovi store without paying?13:34
MohammadAGtrying to do that causes an E: Handler Silently Failed message13:34
RST38hOvi Store is THAT secure? =)13:34
MohammadAGotherwise it would be illegal to post that package :)13:35
RST38hMohammad: Not really illegal13:35
MohammadAGit was possible to do that, but the store was taken down for 3 months13:35
RST38hMohammad: But I certainly how Ovi Store is not THAT porous13:35
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psycho_oreosbahahaha gotta love framebuffer console13:36
MohammadAGthere are two ways to install from the ovi store w/o visiting the store13:36
MohammadAGthe first would be through HAM, just enable red pill mode13:37
MohammadAG2nd would be the modified apt package above, with either plain old apt-get or fapman13:37
lcukthe third would be slapping you around the head with a big trout13:37
haltdeflol fapman13:39
haltdefawesome name13:39
slonopotamus3rd is wget? :)13:39
psycho_oreosred pill mode through HAM has been removed in pr1.213:40
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, not entirely13:40
MohammadAGfound a way to enable it13:40
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, got any proof? ;)13:40
slonopotamusMohammadAG, and 2nd is the _non-modified_ (as in upstream) apt13:40
MohammadAGslonopotamus, no, it's the nokia apt, from 44-113:41
MohammadAGor was it 51-113:41
MohammadAGcan't remember13:41
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* lcuk ponders whether picturing everyone in elvis suits would make meego conf keynote go easier13:43
MohammadAGah, right, it was apt
MohammadAGa version which suddenly disappeared from :P13:44
Duckbootlcuk: nervous?13:44
lcukDuckboot, very.13:45
lcukif i get accepted for this i will need much help13:45
Duckbootlcuk: hehe13:45
Stskeepsor beer13:45
Duckbootbeer always help.13:46
lcukbut i would rather be sober on stage13:46
korhojoa_sober? stage? whaat?13:46
MohammadAGamerican idol13:47
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, interesting, thanks, the file was not available in PR1.2 but upon creating a new one and adding those two fields it now works13:48
MohammadAGhmm, could've been carried over from PR1.113:48
MohammadAGnever cleaned ~13:48
BCMMdoes anyone have a working environment for compiling for maemo under Gentoo? Are Portage's various scratchbox-related packages any use for this?13:49
lcukkorhojoa_, I posted about a meego summit keynote (ok, talk Stskeeps :P) My Meego Conference keynote: Maemo Community, Standing on the shoulders of giants
MohammadAGyou could try to install scratchbox and get the rootstrap images manually13:50
lcukBCMM, potentially, have a read through the SDK instructions for "non-debian systems"13:51
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BCMMlcuk: sorry, that's just how to start scratchbox, not how to install it13:52
lcukBCMM, then read the rest and see if you can decipher it13:52
lcukand if you do, make some notes for the next generation?13:53
lcukor you in 6 months :P13:53
BCMMi've had a shot at deciphering it, and i think my problem is not properly understanding the components of the SDK13:53
korhojoa_lcuk: ah, okay13:53
BCMMscratchbox is a general-purpose thing, on which one installs some maemo-specific stuff, right?13:53
lcuknot hte best person, but I believe so13:54
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BCMMsee, i'd like to do things "properly" where possible, and an wondering if i can do something like install scratchbox from gentoo them install the maemo-specific stuff on it13:55
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> you could try to install scratchbox and get the rootstrap images manually13:55
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MohammadAGBCMM, scratchbox is just an advanced chroot13:55
BCMMMohammadAG: thanks, i actually did miss that the first time13:55
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BCMMconfusingly, there is a package for dev-embedded/scratchbox-devkit-maemo313:56
BCMMi presume that's an old version of the maemo-specific stuff - maybe i could edit the ebuild to install maemo 513:56
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BCMMMohammadAG: so what is rootstrap?13:57
slonopotamusBCMM, smth related to porn afaik13:57
BCMMone installs scratchbox, giving you a chroot-ish thing, then installs maemo's rootstrap?13:57
BCMMfrom the name, i presume that's just enough of a system to apt-get the rest?13:58
MohammadAGand yes :)13:59
BCMMi think i may have been confused by assuming that their "debian" stuff was actually debian-specific, rather than meaning "and if you try it on other systems, don't blame us"13:59
BCMMoh neat, a list of which bits of scratchbox are needed!14:00
BCMMso the thing you end up with is basically a chroot containing maemo for x86? or maemo for ARM running with processor emulation?14:01
MohammadAGif you need both14:02
MohammadAGI have the X86 target deleted on a remote server since it's ssh only14:03
BCMMnot sure i understand14:03
BCMMpresumably the latter is needed to actually compile stuff for maemo?14:03
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MohammadAGyou get two targets, a target is a chroot, the X86 target is for testing stuff since you can bring up the Maemo 5 UI on it14:04
MohammadAGthe ARMEL target is to compile packages for the device14:04
MohammadAGwhich uses qemu to emulate arm14:04
BCMMsince it uses a real install of kdrive on hte host anyway, why can't you bring up the UI of the ARM version?14:04
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BCMMperformance too low, or i'm missing something?14:05
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MohammadAGnot sure, it just doesn't start14:05
BCMMfair enough14:05
MohammadAGI'm sure it's not performance though14:05
BCMMhmm, that's odd14:05
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MohammadAGfrom the known issues: #14:06
MohammadAG# Armel target does not bring up the UI framework14:06
BCMMthanks a lot and sorry for so many questions; i think i understand the concepts now and i'll read the docs14:07
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MNZmorning fellas14:09
MNZso I just woke up, ate something, then decided to finally install the kernel I built. Now it starts to boot, does a quick vibration and shows the nokia logo, then restarts :/14:10
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lcukmnz, congratulations, you installed the vibrator kernel14:11
lcuknokia branded apparantly14:11
MNZsweet, but I'm a guy14:11
lcukwhatever floats your boat14:11
lcukIDK, since changing the kernel is one of the more advanced things anything can happen14:12
lcukdidnt your doctor tell you it was a tricky procedure?14:12
MNZhe did. but I thought hey, everyone's doing it14:13
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lcuknot really14:13
MNZnow to bring back the kernel and checking out the logs....14:13
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lcukhmm is there really active discussion ongoing in #maemo-hostmode-discussion about usb host mode.  if you have an interest, perhaps you could idle there and add your skills and knowledge and some input as required :)14:19
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MNZmore maemo fun14:20
BCMMi'm joining just to watch everyone else from this channel flood it with "is it ready yet?"14:21
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janibut best maemo fun is within few recent days is port of bambuser!14:21
lcukBCMM, if people are stupid enough to flood with those sorts of questions I am sure DocScrutinizer will get rid quickly14:22
BCMMjani: what's bambuster14:22
tobis87lcuk: Did the guy from yesterday was able to fix it? I was so tired, I surely would have said something wrong... The guy with the picture he was not able to delete.14:22
lcukits a serious topic that needs good quality input14:22
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lcuktobis87, he came back this morning perhaps you can find him and talk14:23
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BCMMlcuk: i wasn't entirely serious...14:24
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lcukas you see, the doc is :P14:24
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tobis87lcuk: He could have flashed it anyway, but I just don't understand how you can try mount > in the shell... Is it not clear that you should do mount and paste the results in Maybe I expect to much from people, which use linux the first time...14:25
BCMMi was referring to what happens on the forum thread - personally, i've no intention of getting in the way like that14:26
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MNZtobis87, I was going to tell you to drop it yesterday but frankly I didn't want to turn the user away and also I was wondering how far you can take it :D14:27
lcuktobis87, you asked him specifically to do it.  i have been talking to real users of numerous computer systems for 15 years, never over estimate and find a level with the person you are dealing with - and never take anything for granted14:27
tobis87well, maybe this is because I grew up with ms-dos, so that the only way to use a pc, was to learn to use the shell...14:27
BCMMtobis87: most people are very scared of the shell14:30
BCMMi've been on the phone to friends and relatives who won't type "ipconfig" into cmd in case they typo and format their disk or something - that's just what a blinking white cursor says to most people14:31
lcuk++ i have been in similar BCMM14:31
tobis87yes, but i just don't like to just say flash, flash, flash... if there is another solution for this. nobody likes to have to start from the beginning and if it is messed up anyway, you could at least learn from using the shell. you can still flash it later.14:31
BCMMlcuk: i've also had someone passing by say, with admiration, "wow! you're controlling your computer!"14:32
lcuktobis87, water under the bridge14:32
BCMMi don't think i was doing anything much cleverer than "ls" at that point that...14:32
lcukthe user needs to paste his "mount" output14:32
lcukbefore doing any actions14:32
lcukjust blunty trying to perform gobal partition maintainance before knowing there is a problem can cause damage14:33
lcukand people WILL try to follow your instructions14:33
lcukso don't do it14:33
lcuk(the user came back this morning after attempting it14:34
BCMMchrist, scratchbox-devkit-doctools comes with an entire texlive distro14:34
tobis87lcuk: yes, i asked him to do so... but I expect people to not just do whatever they get told... I thought it was clear to not do it in one command. Ok I also learned from it14:34
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tobis87i will remember this in the future, if i help other...14:35
lcukwho wants coffee14:35
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tobis87BCMM: but why are people scared of the shell, surely because windows tries to be easy and fails badly... if the system wasn't trying to be so easy, people would need to learn how to use a pc.14:37
BCMMtobis87: i'm scared of the windows shell! terribly tab-completion14:38
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Venemo~seen alterego14:41
Venemohm, where is infobot?14:41
keriohe's online14:41
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tobis87BCMM: even worse no cat and grep... i think cat is called type in the windows cmd14:42
slonopotamus~seen infobot14:42
kerioslonopotamus: lol14:42
slonopotamuskerio, :P14:42
keriohe's not responding to my botsnacks :(14:42
kerioDocScrutinizer: is infobot dead?14:42
* lcuk kicks DocScrutinizer to kick infobot14:42
Venemokerio: no, he's not online14:43
* slonopotamus once did `locate locate` when `locate <smth>` failed because locate was not found14:43
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DocScrutinizeribot is alive but hibernating14:43
tobis87the powershell is not much better, .NET based, but I was amazed that they included some unix alias, like ps for example14:43
DocScrutinizernot much I can do14:43
BCMMevery DOS machine i have to use gets an ls.bat14:44
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DocScrutinizerhere you go14:44
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pupnikpeople who post comments in phone forums are fucking idiots14:45
infobotDocScrutinizer: :)14:45
Venemothanks DocScrutinizer14:45
Venemo~seen alterego14:45
infobotalterego is currently on #maemo, last said: 'Depends who's justifying it.'.14:45
BCMMtobis87: well, there is no cat equivalent because their pipes are broken, but you can use type to view a text file14:45
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tobis87rm -rf / in powershell: "get-psdrive -p "FileSystem" | % {ls -recurse $_.Root | rm –Force } "14:45
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BCMMi am actually laughing i real life and stuff14:46
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psycho_oreosI was told its possible to make n900 keyboard LED flash based on system activity without enabling R&D mode, is there a way to do this?14:46
Venemo~nuke alterego14:47
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at alterego ... B☢☢M!14:47
BCMMls, rm and so on - do they constantly use POSIX command names for their own commands?14:47
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keriotheir own?14:47
keriothey use syscalls, don't they14:47
BCMMit sounds potentially very confusing, since i'm sure they don't really take posix syntax14:47
BCMMkerio: was refering to tobis87's powershell example14:47
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kerioi see14:48
BCMMtobis87: is rm the usual command for deletion, or do they have del as well?14:48
tobis87Remove-Item is the native command14:48
BCMMoh i see, they have names that are familiar to both unix and windows people14:49
BCMMi'd be upset at using a name like "man" if it behaves substantially differently to man14:50
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tobis87they actually did a test of windows xp;|en&u=
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tobis87and the powershell
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, ping14:55
RST38hOMG a managed shell scripting!14:55
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psycho_oreosMohammadAG, I bet you're the one who released that knight rider keyboard LED effect on youtube eh? :)14:55
RST38hI mean, managed C and managed C++ has not been enough, so they have now got managed BASH (nothing in common with real BASH of course)14:56
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, what gave it away? :P14:56
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, I dunno, the youtube handle is somewhat similar? :)14:57
MohammadAGdamn, you've blown my cover!14:57
psycho_oreoso rly?14:58
MohammadAG :p14:59
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, thanks :)15:00
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Venemocall is glitching when I deploy my app on my N900 during a call...15:05
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SpeedEvilDuring calls, voice goes through the CPU15:07
SpeedEvilwith a 5ms latency15:08
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MNZMohammadAG, remember yesterday when you said I can just get the kernel packages and upload to device in case of mess up? I just did that with the kernel package, but what about the modules?15:17
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ZuccaIs there a gui gconf tool for Maemo 5?15:21
ZuccaMy connection settings are messed up.15:21
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VenemoZucca: I don't think so. But there is a command line gconf tool15:25
ZuccaYeah. That I saw. I was a bit too complex/arcane looking for me.15:26
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infobotwell, flashing is
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MNZMohammadAG, so I have to get the entire firmware :/  I thought you said there was a way...15:33
lcukhahaha what an awesome sumission on the slashdot firehose15:34
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MohammadAGMNZ, what?15:36
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MohammadAGMNZ, that wasn't for you, I needed a quick link for flasher15:36
MohammadAGMNZ, kernel-modules15:36
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MNZMohammadAG, heh sorry. Well yeah how do you install kernel-modules on a bricked device?15:36
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MohammadAGyou shouldn't replace stock modules15:37
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tobis87it depends, fcam-drivers also replace stock modules... oh well not replace them in /lib/modules, but they are loaded in replace15:39
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n900_Brickerhi, deleted advanced kernel by using program manager, now it is not booting (no kernel anymore)15:46
MohammadAGtobis87, device boots without them15:46
Stskeepsn900_Bricker: ha-ha15:46
n900_Brickerwhich one is fiasco image to use for restore15:46
n900_Brickerflasher_35 installed already15:47
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n900_BrickerFound the follwing info at the wiki... sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R15:48
n900_Brickerbut what image to use?15:48
Stskeepsn900_Bricker: has a n900 one, grab the 2010 one15:48
n900_Brickerthere are "emmc" images and others15:48
technomike_phoneemmc formats the flash memory or something (the 32gb mmc)15:49
technomike_phonethe emmc images I mean15:49
n900_Brickerfile:///home/tokoloshe/Desktop/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin could be the right one?15:50
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MohammadAGyou could try flashing
MohammadAGeasier than having to dl a 100+ MB image15:52
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technomike_phonei have installed kernel-power but notice no differences15:55
trumeeguys, i just bought a PS3 sixaxis controller to use with N900 although i dont own a PS3. Is it possible to charge the controller using the Nokia N900 charger?15:55
technomike_phonei attempted installing your pulseaudio patch15:55
MohammadAGit's not my patch, it's my package, but go on15:55
SpeedEviltrumee: Does the sixaxis controller take a microUSB connector?15:55
MohammadAGtrumee, no15:55
technomike_phonehaha no trumee15:55
MohammadAGmini USB15:56
SpeedEviltrumee: Sounds unlikely15:56
technomike_phoneUse a PC15:56
technomike_phoneto charge it15:56
SpeedEvilIf it is indeed miniUSB, you might use an adaptor15:56
trumeei dont want to carry a laptop around for charging the controller.15:56
trumeeIs the current drawn by the N900 different to the controller?15:56
SpeedEvilPower supplies do not supply current.15:57
technomike_phonetrumee - If you connect it to a PC using the miniUSB cable then it will charge. Or purchase a wall socket USB charger.15:57
MohammadAGI'd suggest you don't try what you're thinking of15:57
SpeedEvilIf a table can support 300Kg, it does not mean that when you sit on the table you weigh 300Kg.15:57
MohammadAGthe sixaxis's battery life is a week for me15:57
MohammadAGjust charge it overnight15:57
SpeedEvilUnless you happen to eat all the pies on the table.15:57
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technomike_phonei got stuck15:58
trumeei do have a USB wall charger for my TomTom. It says Output 5V  - 1A15:58
technomike_phoneat the bit where you download all.tar.gz15:58
technomike_phonetrumee - use that15:58
trumeeMohammadAG, SpeedEvil: will the tomtom charger  work?15:58
technomike_phoneit works. I have done it myself15:58
MohammadAGthe all.tar.gz is actually an all.tar15:58
SpeedEviltrumee: Is it miniusb, and does it firt15:59
MohammadAGwrong extension15:59
technomike_phoneMohammadAG - that's what I meant sorry15:59
trumeeSpeedEvil: yes it is minisub15:59
MohammadAGtechnomike_phone, not your fault I named it wrong15:59
technomike_phoneso rename it then try15:59
MohammadAGtrumee, try it, though iirc, the sixaxis doesn't charge unless its driver is installed16:00
trumeetechnomike_phone: nope, it doesnt charge :(16:00
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technomike_phoneI am looking forward to having stable audio output16:00
MohammadAGdumb charger16:00
MohammadAGuse a PC16:00
trumeeMohammadAG: the leds dont glow at all16:00
MohammadAGI know16:00
technomike_phoneuse a pc16:00
MohammadAGit doesn't charge from dumb sources16:00
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lcukRST38h, you are such a grouchy bastard.16:01
trumeei need a crash course on charging. What does very fast blinking red led and slow blinking led mean? and how do i know when it is fully charged?16:01
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mirfit's green when fully charged16:01
lcuktrumee, potentially listed on the maemo wiki16:02
MohammadAGfast blinking means connecting, slow blinking = charging16:02
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MohammadAGmirf, sixaxis, not N90016:02
mirfcharging is usually blinking orange iirc16:02
lcukgreen == fully done16:02
MohammadAGsixaxis people16:02
trumeeMohammadAG: and how do i turn the controller off?16:02
MohammadAGhold PS button16:02
technomike_phonewhy doesn't rename all.tar.gz all.tar command work16:02
RST38hlcuk: I am, yes, indeed16:02
MohammadAGtechnomike_phone, no rename command on linux16:02
MohammadAGmv renames16:02
trumeewhen the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit if off?16:02
lcukRST38h, I know that xchat should work16:03
RST38hlcuk: But, OTOH, you probably won't argue that the proposed scenario is the most likely one16:03
lcukbut is the handheld qt version of fbreader ready?16:03
technomike_phonemohammadag - thanks16:03
RST38hlcuk: No idea16:03
MohammadAGtechnomike_phone, tar ignore extension anyways16:03
ZuccaHa! Gconf-editor is on repo. \o/16:03
lcuki know it should be possible to get native gtk xchat in16:03
MohammadAGyou have to use the correct parametres16:03
MohammadAGtar -xvf16:03
RST38hlcuk: I am currently busy porting my own stuff to Qt16:03
lcukbut will that also need more hacks to get it down to handsized16:03
lcukthat we already did for the hildon branch16:03
lcukRST38h, sure I know16:03
trumeemirf: when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit is off?16:04
lcukbut those 2 are community apps you have yourself looked over16:04
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technomike_phoneits done. but what command is used now.16:04
RST38hlcuk: I will get to them when I have the Meego device and time.16:04
lcukand RST38h you are rebuilding your entire code in qt?16:04
lcukor just wrapping it16:04
mirfI don't know anythign about sixaxis16:04
trumeemirf: k :)16:04
RST38hlcuk: I am porting EMULib to Qt. Once it is done, my stuff should work without changes16:04
lcukreasonable enough16:05
trumeeMohammadAG: all leds off means that the unit is off?16:05
lcukand you will be able to get rid of many of the abstractions you currently worry about16:05
MohammadAG<trumee> when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit if off?16:05
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> yes16:05
lcukby just using the qt api itself16:05
tobis87N900uk has posted this pastebin, the MyDocs is mounted rw, but he can't create a file "touch test"...16:05
* lcuk does understand the positive side of qt16:05
trumeeMohammadAG: sorry missed that.16:05
* RST38h does not understand positive sides: qt is just another toolkit16:06
RST38hSeen many of 'em during the last decade.16:06
* lcuk nods16:06
lcukbut isnt qt the one that will let you run same code on all various OSes16:06
tobis87lcuk: is it safe, if i tell him to fsck the partiton?16:06
RST38hQt build tools are apparently half-baked, as for the rest, it is standard16:06
lcuktobis87, has he backed up stuff first just in case ;) readonly is better than not at all16:07
RST38hProbably leads to a lot of memory leaks, as it is often unclear who is supposed to delete Qt objects.16:07
tobis87lcuk: ok16:07
lcukRST38h, yeah16:07
lcukdid you get a prototype working?16:07
RST38hwhat prototype?16:08
lcukand should it also be buildable on the netbook image?16:08
lcukof your porting to see if its fast enough16:08
trumeedo default keys of DrNokSnes work well with sixaxis or do i need to map them?16:09
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MNZSo quick question, why should we not replace the kernel modules on the n900?16:11
derfRST38h: But this toolkit will Save The World!16:11
derfOr something.16:11
lcukand the cheerleader!16:11
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trumeealso, is it recommended to OC for playing with sixaxis and DrNokSNes?16:11
SpeedEvilYou should always overclock to at least 1.7GHz.16:12
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is  read that!16:12
trumeeSpeedEvil: :)16:12
SpeedEvilBut - seriously - overclocking is generally bad on the hardware.16:12
technomike_phoneLOL trumee. Its not recommended to OC *at all*16:12
RST38hlcuk: Not interested in netbooks16:13
trumeetechnomike_phone: hmm. i am presently running a stock kernel.16:13
RST38hlcuk: In fact, not interested in meego unless it powers a mobile device16:13
lcukRST38h, but with nice free building there (if it works) why would you negate it?16:14
RST38hlcuk: Got an Ubuntu.16:14
lcukdoes your stuff work there?16:14
RST38hlcuk: Nice free hassle-free building on Ubuntu16:14
RST38hlcuk: Yes, why not?16:14
lcukis that written in qt?16:14
RST38hyes, qt stuff runs on ubuntu16:15
lcukyour stuff is already in qt?16:15
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RST38h"my stuff" is in C.16:15
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GAN900lcuk, is anything you engage on Maemo/MeeGo-related these days tempered with anything but extreme "Go team!" sentimentality?16:15
RST38hit runs everywhere16:15
lcukGAN900, it most likely is16:16
technomike_phoneRST38h - same here. not interested in meego on other devices except mobiles16:16
RST38hand, mind you, it does not necessarily have to be Meego16:16
RST38hMaemo has been ok, as far as I am concerned16:17
lcukRST38h, what prevents the push for meego handset with you? if its just another target why not?16:18
lcukor is it issue with closed dependencies?16:18
RST38hlcuk: there is no hardware with the usable meego handset installation16:18
RST38hlcuk: once I get such hardware, I will work directly with it16:19
RST38hlcuk: right now, I am targeting Maemo5 with Qt 4.616:19
lcukso a pure qt open source build or keeping the closed backend?16:19
RST38hlcuk: <parsing error>16:20
lcukis it full qt and will go through the autobuilder or will it have closed source blobs still16:20
lcukerrr OBS16:21
RST38hah, it will be a binary package16:21
RST38hlocally built.16:21
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mikhaswow, "RST38h: ... Maemo has been ok, as far as I am concerned" - that I would live to read that! ;-)16:26
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mikhasnote to self: how to convince pessimist: come up with something worse16:26
lcukheh good morning mikhas16:27
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lcukhow is miniature going?16:27
Venemoalterego: ping16:27
lcukwhats blocking or is it just time busy doing other stuff atm?16:28
mikhasyeah, no free brain capacity to do the things I need to do16:28
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SpeedEvilcd ~/mikhas;rm -r Perfect\ Treehouse16:30
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RST38hmikhas: Maemo is not particularly bad, just not properly maintained16:30
mikhashey! now I have to start over again!16:30
RST38hmikhas: You want bad, check out Redhat (*not* Meego, the real one)16:30
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n900_brickerhow long does it take for flashing kernel only...waiting for some minutes...16:31
RST38hOr Gentoo. Or Slackware.16:31
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MNZRST38h, slackware is very properly maintained, tyvm.16:35
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* SpeedEvil uses slackware.16:42
SpeedEvilIt 'just works' for me.16:42
derfI won't say Gentoo "just works", but no distribution I've ever used has.16:45
derfThe nice feature of Gentoo is that I can actually fix everything that's broken without too much effort.16:46
sulxlike arch16:46
RST38hFreeBSD is even better at that, as it does not get broken that often ;)16:46
derfYes, unfortunately that means you're running FreeBSD, though.16:46
RST38hAs long as it makes things work, I see no problem there16:48
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mick_laptophi everyone, i'm trying to run the simulator but I honestly can't figure it out. I have it installed and I just ran simulator.app16:50
mick_laptopit just gives me all the options - i don't see how i can just turn it on16:51
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GAN900n900_bricker, just a few seconds.16:53
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kerioslackware lacks a true package manager :|16:55
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mick_laptopkerio: that is the point of slackware16:58
kerioapt <316:58
mick_laptop <--- i want to get to this step16:58
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ZuccaAnyone have any good explanation why my N900 asks confirmation for "roaming data" every time, even if I'm in my own country...17:01
mick_laptopthis is what i get instead:
DocScrutinizer51settingsinternet 'always ask' ?17:02
mick_laptopnone of the examples even build for me17:04
ZuccaDocScrutinizer51: Connect automatically. Of course it won't ask it if there's awailable wlan.17:04
ZuccaThis has been bugging me singe the day I bought N900.17:05
mick_laptopall i really wanted was to try maemo :) and bring up a browser so i can target mobile devices better :)17:05
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n900uklcuk: could let tobis87 know that everything seems to be fine now17:05
keriomick_laptop: targeting mobile devices isn't easy17:05
kerioyou have to consider the interface, the form factor,17:05
kerioit's not just a matter of emulating the OS in a window17:06
n900uklcuk: but i will still hang around. he requested i give him an hour. files are now ok17:06
mick_laptopkerio: actually if you read what i said - i just want a *browser*17:07
mick_laptopi know what I'm doing (as far as what I want to achieve)17:08
mick_laptopi just want the simulator to not suck17:08
mick_laptopthis is what I keep getting when the examples don't compile and crash "Could not create display memory. Retrying..."17:08
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mick_laptopw/ anroid you install the package target, create an avd and then start the emulator - done17:18
n900uklcuk: not for very long. seems to be re-occurring again17:20
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mick_laptopdoes QT Creator need to connect to a specific port to work?17:22
mick_laptop"Waiting for RPC reply to 'setWidgetGeometry'' call timed out17:23
Venemomick_laptop: no, it doesn't need to. what are you doing?17:23
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redcan I somehow physicly access the memory card of the n900?17:23
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redmy phone is broken and I thought I'd take a try if my card reader could read the micro sd(?)17:23
redall I can see is the slot for the 2nd memory card when I pop the back open17:24
mick_laptopVenemo: i'm trying to create a drupal theme targeting nokia handheld devices. I'm trying to use the simulator.17:24
GAN900red, it's soldered on.17:24
Venemomick_laptop: huh. the Qt simulator?17:25
mick_laptopi was expecting this:
redgan900: so I can't pry it off? :P17:25
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mick_laptopthis is what i get instead:
redgot some stuff there I'd really like to get back17:25
reda lot of photos17:25
Venemomick_laptop: the Qt simulator has never ever worked for me17:25
Venemomick_laptop: use the N900 emulator from MADDE or a real device :)17:26
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mick_laptop1hr download17:29
mick_laptopVenemo: thanks for that pointer17:30
yoyoyohey guys, I've gmail setup so that I can send from a bunch of different email addresses - but when I setup gmail in the maemo mail client, it only shows that I can send from the master account - any ideas?17:30
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yoyoyoalso, sending mail has an smtp error, I've never been able to send, but receiving works fine.. the forum says to change to in smtp settings, but that didn't fix it17:33
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tobis87damn, thunder-storm... made my lcd flash, n900uk have you done the backup?17:34
redyoyoyo: no workaround for that17:34
Venemomick_laptop: if you use Nokia Qt SDK, you already have MADDE :P17:35
redthe multiple stuff that is17:35
redsending worked fine for me17:35
yoyoyok fixed that part17:36
yoyoyored, tell me, so you can select multiple email addresses in "new message" in the maemo client?17:36
yoyoyodid you just add one account?17:36
yoyoyothat is what I did17:36
yoyoyooh, well are there any clients that can do it?17:37
yoyoyothat is a very important feature, red17:38
keriothe webmail?17:38
keriomicrob is a mickass browser after all17:39
yoyoyoI'm talking about gmail's ability to send from various accounts17:39
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korhojoayoyoyo: what is that function called?17:41
korhojoacan you show me a link to a google document about it?17:41
mick_laptopVenemo: that is what i thought, but where is it?17:41
Venemomick_laptop: for me, C:\NokiaQtSDK\Maemo\4.6.217:42
mick_laptopok, but how do i start it?17:42
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mick_laptopit looks like a file system stucture17:42
Venemomick_laptop: check out this thread:
mick_laptopexactly what i needed17:43
mick_laptopthanks again Venemo17:43
Venemomick_laptop: you're welcome! :)17:43
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mick_laptop./bin/mad remote -r rx51-fremantle-pr12 poweron - did it for me17:45
mick_laptopnow I need to wait a while for qemu17:45
mick_laptopkind of cool that they use qemu17:45
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Venemomick_laptop: if you have any issues with it, ask on #qt-maemo -> the guys working on Qt for Maemo are there in European working hours17:45
Venemomick_laptop: they are also very friendly17:45
mick_laptopoh very awersome17:45
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knightstalkerHello,I have a question about if there are any download managers for Maemo,as the Maemo's browsers download manager when the connection is disconnected for few second,will just kill the file :(17:46
knightstalkerthe download manager I need is not about increasing the speed but,not to lose the downloaded amount17:46
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knightstalkerand Idk,but I am a bit unsure about wget,I had a problem which when I closed terminal and used wget again It recovered the data,however,at last,the downloaded thing was corrupted... -.-17:47
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BCMMMohammadAG: thanks for explaining scratchbox for me - i'm installing maemo-sdk-debug now18:12
BCMM(don't worry, i haven't been puzzling over it nonstop since i last spoke to you)18:12
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BCMMassuming this all works right, where would be an appropriate place to post a howto for other people wanting to do n900 development on Gentoo?18:16
SpeedEvilthe wiki?18:17
VenemoBCMM: either the forum ( or a blog entry, or a wiki page18:17
VenemoBCMM: or both18:18
SpeedEvilProbably sane18:19
BCMMi haven't used the wiki before; are ordinary users allowed to add information to, for example, ?18:19
trumeeis it possible to play quake 3 with sixaxis controller?18:19
SpeedEvilanyone can add to wiki18:19
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trumeeBCMM: there is a webpage somewhere describing how to install scratchbox and maemo sdk on gentoo18:21
trumeeBCMM: here,
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BCMMtrumee: i've seen a few of those, and i'm doing things slightly differently18:22
trumeeBCMM: i have followed that page sucessfully on my gentoo box18:22
BCMMi'm trying to do this with the scratchbox packages in portage18:22
BCMMso far it appears to be working18:22
trumeeBCMM: good18:22
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trumeeSince there is no quake 3 + sixaxis video on youtube, i guess it is not possible yet.18:23
BCMMassuming this works, i'll have followed to the letter apart from using emerge instead of apt-get to get scratchbox, and not having to worry about the groups thing because the ebuild took care of it18:24
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ZuccaI've now reseted all the data roaming settings. And I even chose my carrier manually. Now when I open a data connection my N900 still asks if I really want to use roaming GPRS. I'm out of ideas here.18:28
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ZuccaSomehow Maemo thinks that my own network carrier isn't "home".18:30
technomike_phonesame here18:30
technomike_phoneand it's because18:30
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technomike_phonewhen your phone switches from 3G to 2G when you move out off 3G area18:30
technomike_phonesome networks put you on their 2G network which is actually used from another network18:31
technomike_phoneif you understand what I mean18:31
ZuccaOk. So this is the deal...18:31
keriomine does that18:31
keriobut also makes me pay for internet while in 2g18:32
zeltakhya..anyone using MohammadAG pulse audio fix? how is it working for you guys?18:32
ZuccaMy celculler connection is from a company that owned by another company...18:32
keriowhat fix?18:32
kerioi like fixes18:32
ZuccaAnd at some places it uses the owning company identification rather than the company which I'm client of.18:33
zeltaki remember seeing a package a few days ago that fixes some pulseaudio bugs...mainly audio stuttering (which happens to me alot on my n900)18:33
GAN900kerio, see Talk.18:34
GAN900kerio, or mwkn.net18:35
kerioi don't have stutter18:35
zeltaki do...alot...happens mainly with podcasts18:35
* RST38h sighs18:37
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MohammadAGX-Fade, ping18:39
Zuccatechnomike_phone: Is it possible add more operators to "home". Via gconf?18:40
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zeltakhya MohammadAG18:41
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zeltakso how is your pusle package working so far? is it only for the power kernel?18:42
RST38h...Once the properties of SCP-761 were confirmed, most of these missing persons were located, in the form of entombed remains.18:42
MohammadAGstutters a bit apparently, less than before18:43
MohammadAGvolume is higher for some18:43
MohammadAGmax volume that is18:43
MohammadAGit's for a newer unreleased stock kernel, works on power-kernel18:43
MohammadAGerr, kernel-power18:43
zeltakyeah i get loads of stuttering on podcasts18:43
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redhow do I safely reset my n900 so that all my data is garbled (and unsaveable with certain software)18:44
redbascly would like to shred the memory and then flash the OS to it18:44
zeltakare there sys logs on the n900 like on stock linux? most emulators crash my system and reboot it and was wondering if there is anyway to pinpoint the cause18:44
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
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RST38h...Contaminated organisms gradually lose all color saturation, becoming living "black and white" characters over the course of a few days, at which point they become contagious.18:49
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BCMMare you quoting from infobot's link?18:51
BCMMi don't think i'm going to update my firmware18:51
BCMMmy next guess would be SCP18:52
technomike_phoneCould you help me out18:52
technomike_phoneinstalling your pulseaudio patch18:53
MohammadAGinstall kernel-power18:53
MohammadAGdownload tar18:53
MohammadAGmkdir pulseaudio18:53
MohammadAGcd pulseaudio18:53
technomike_phoneI have renamed the file but not sure what to do18:53
MohammadAGtar -xvf ../all.tar18:53
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MohammadAGdpkg -i *18:53
technomike_phonemany thanks18:53
MohammadAGwelcome :P18:53
MohammadAGquickest howto I've written18:54
technomike_phonehow can i verify kernel-power is installed18:54
technomike_phoneI am sure I did it the other day18:54
MohammadAGuname -a18:54
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technomike_phoneLinux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Apr 15 09:47:09 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown18:55
redis the finnish n900 with global firmware or uk firmware?18:55
technomike_phonekernel-power is already the newest version.18:56
technomike_phoneah must be then :)18:57
technomike_phonesurely its global.18:57
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technomike_phonetar -xvf ../all.tar18:57
technomike_phonetar: invalid tar magic18:58
satmdfile all.tar18:58
MNZRST38h, wth is this scp wiki?19:01
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MNZRST38h, nvm, just found a how-to-write-an-scp19:04
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technomike_phonedamn this pulseaudio !19:06
technomike_phoneshouldn't even have to do this anyway19:06
technomike_phoneit shouldn't even stutter anyway19:07
technomike_phoneN900 is definetly the last nokia device I ever buy. Fed up with the ammount of bugs and product quality.19:07
Stskeepsgood for you19:07
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keriothe n900 is a crappy device, but it's still better than *anything* similar that exists today19:08
Stskeepsget a freerunner19:09
technomike_phoneI don't mean that bad. I am just saying. Its a shame about the stuttering audio.19:09
technomike_phoneAgreed totally kerio19:09
technomike_phonexD stskeeps19:09
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ZuccaIs it possible to set home carrier manually? So that N900 thinks it's in home carrier zone?19:17
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technomike_phoneNot sure19:20
technomike_phoneCan N900 play .flv kerio ?19:21
Stskeepsyes? :P19:21
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technomike_phoneAh yeah :)19:22
technomike_phoneof course19:22
technomike_phoneI say stuff without thinking sometimes haha19:22
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mikki-kundid it ever happen to anyone of you, that certain apps segfault for you? my fennec v2_a doesn't work e.g.19:29
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technomike_phoneis it possible to have more than one x terminal open19:33
mikki-kunthat makes a new terminal19:34
mikki-kuna lil bit of finger twister though19:34
technomike_phonethanks alot :D worked19:34
mikki-kunnp :)19:34
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GAN900So which of you UK folks are looking out for hurricane Earl? :P19:51
technomike_phoneNever knew about it19:51
GAN900It may start swinging your direction, so watch out. :P19:52
technomike_phone:o !!!19:53
technomike_phonegoing to check it out on the net now19:54
GAN900There's a second one that may be headed for New York.19:54
* GAN900 cackles.19:54
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jogadoes someone use quick-launch with transitioncontrol?19:59
jogaapparently doesn't work, I get the same as the person in this thread
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MNZhow do I KILLLLL pulseaudio?20:17
MNZwhat's restarting it?20:17
Stskeepsdo you want call audio?20:18
Stskeepsthen you have to have PA20:18
MNZtemporarily, no20:18
MNZok, so how do I kill it?20:19
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keriostop pulseaudio20:25
kerioas root20:25
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MNZkerio, thanks.20:26
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skyscraperMohammadAG51: how to use the new ubuntu?20:42
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skyscraperMohammadAG51: with old tutorial
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ZuccaOh man. Just when I got sorted all my connection back in order fMMS messes all up again.20:50
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ZuccafMMS replaced my default gprs connection and changed it into MMS connection. My previous gprs connetion is now IAP/0000-0000-0000-0000 and MMS connection is IAP/Saunalahti@32@Internet...20:53
ZuccaIt should be the other way aroud.20:53
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ZuccaNow I can't even receive any MMS...20:54
ZuccaI think I'll delete every fMMS settings from gconf and add gprs connection by hand.20:55
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ZuccafMMS choses first wlan connection and tries to download MMSes using it...20:56
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MohammadAG51skyscraper, wait till I post a new tutorial21:12
MohammadAG51Zucca, fmms can't use wlan to dl mms21:12
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SpeedEvilIt'd be nice if it could.21:14
SpeedEvilBut yes - that's not supported by the network21:15
redwhy do all flashing guides tell me to fully charge the battery?21:15
redits not like its gonna end in middle of it21:15
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Venemored: because if you flash with an empty battery, dragons will eat you21:15
redis just for stupid people who attempt to do it with like 5% power? :P21:15
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Venemored: well yeah...21:17
Venemored: anyways, where would you draw the line?21:18
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red"Make sure not to attempt to flash the phone with less than 1 hour of battery life left" or something21:18
mikki-kunflashing takes about 3 mins at max21:18
Venemored: yeah, how can you tell how much is that?21:18
redemmc flashing + boot takes a lot21:18
mikki-kunso i'd say even with 10% it should be doable, yet risky21:18
redi've been at boot screen for ~3 minutes now21:19
redplus the flashes itself :)21:19
redoptifying takes a while21:19
Venemored: it is much easier to understand that "fully charge your battery" than to say "you need to charge your battery so much that it survies for 45 minutes"21:19
mikki-kunred: usually me only 3 mins (i flash both when i do it)21:19
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rednormal flash was really fast for me21:20
mikki-kunahhh, yeah, booting... that will take another 3 mins ^^'''21:20
reddone that once21:20
redboot took like 2-3 mins21:20
rednow its been like 4 f21:20
redhopefully nothing went wrong :)21:20
Venemookay, fully charging is not a requirement, but your device will break if it runs out of battery while flashing21:20
mikki-kunVenemo: but shouldn't the usb itself also give some charging?21:22
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mikki-kuni know, maybe not the 1.2A like the charger, yet the 200-300 (i guess it is that much) should be sufficent for that mode21:22
Venemomikki-kun: how do you expect the charging software to work when it is being replaced?21:22
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redactually last time i flished I recall that the boot screen never continued21:24
mikki-kunVenemo: hm... does the bme kill then every input of electricity it gets while replaced?21:24
redand i had to take the battery out eventually, put it back in and then it booted fine21:24
redflashed* :P21:24
Venemomikki-kun: bme doesn't run when the device is off... and it is off while charging21:24
mikki-kunugh, shouldn't happened Ö.ö21:24
Stskeepsit's not off while charging.21:24
Stskeepsit's ACTDEAD21:25
Stskeepstrust me, the moment there's the least amount of power, nolo starts21:25
mikki-kunVenemo: isn't bme the stuff which is for all the power management responsible?21:25
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Venemomikki-kun: it runs on top of the OS21:25
Venemomikki-kun: anyways, this is pointless to argue about :)21:25
mikki-kunsure it is, but i guess your knowledge exceeds mine so i guess it isn't pointless as i learn some new stuff :)21:26
mikki-kunred: bootloader of the n90021:26
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redit's still displaying the Nokia logo with the USB icon on the right top corner21:27
redshould I keep waiting or unplug and reboot?21:27
redlast time that worked but i held my breath x)21:27
mikki-kunred: you've done what so far with it?21:27
redflashed normal without -R21:28
redthen flahsed EMMC21:28
Venemored: should work21:28
redah, I still had it mounted21:28
Venemored: afaik21:28
mikki-kunmounted? uh, while flashing you don't need it mounted21:28
mikki-kunmy condolences :(21:29
redbeen booting into windows the past month due starcraft 2 :)21:29
redusually in linux21:29
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mikki-kunSC2 via wine not working?21:29
redit would work shit if it did21:29
redejecting n900 from my computer made it start booting :)21:29
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redevery directx game loses performance when run from wine21:30
redopengl games work great usually :)21:30
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redbetter fps than in windows in most apps21:31
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mikki-kuni hope that directX and openGl will in some way unify... but i guess it will never happen...21:35
Venemored: what distro do you use?21:35
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redubuntu :p21:59
luke-jrmikki-kun: the whole point of DirectX is to not be OpenGL22:00
mikki-kunluke-jr: but i guess dreaming is allowed ;)22:00
luke-jrmikki-kun: WINE-DirectX is obviously OpenGL-based22:00
mikki-kunbetter yet directX should die ^^22:01
luke-jrWINE-DirectX basically implements the DirectX API on top of OpenGL22:01
luke-jrso it's the closest thing to "unify" that is possible22:01
reddx is easier to develop with22:01
* luke-jr flames red.22:02
redbut its also very bloated22:02
luke-jrQtOpenGL. nuff said22:02
redopengl ftw :)22:02
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DocScrutinizermikki-kun: during flashing (or when in flashing mode) N900 doesn't charge22:18
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mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: so if i accidently press u while i plug my wall-charger in, will that prevent it from charging? (in case my battery was emptied)22:18
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mikki-kunthat's a major flaw imo22:19
SpeedEvilDoes it respond to U if it detects a charger?22:20
SpeedEvilI could check it, but I lack motivation.22:20
DocScrutinizernope, that's a consideration how to make flashing most stable and independent of other factors22:20
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: afaik it does22:20
ShadowJKThe other argument is that it should always respond to u to make flashing easier22:21
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ShadowJKbecause people are sure as hell having trouble with it as is22:21
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mikki-kunbut why did nokia disable access to the rootfs through usb?22:22
DocScrutinizerwell, matter of fact: NOLO doesn't charge, 'u' is managed by NOLO22:22
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zeltakhya..ok reflashed the n900 (not the emmc) to check my emulator issues but i have another issue...i get an "application error" in the gui app manager so i cant gain root..anyone seen this before after a fresh flasj?22:22
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: and rootfs access thru usb is a kernel/system function22:23
mikki-kunso it's just some small switch inside the kernel?!22:23
jacekowskigeez i wasted whole day22:23
DocScrutinizerthe kernel needs / to run, so you can't umount it22:23
jacekowskinot really22:24
jacekowskikernel only needs process with id 1 to run22:24
mikki-kuni was more talking when the device is off22:24
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: and how'd you share samba over usb then, with just init running?22:24
zeltakso anyone knows how to gain root inthe xterm wihout the GUI?22:24
mikki-kuni don't like that.. e.g. i mess up with one tiny start-script, i need to reflash my whole rootfs :(22:25
jacekowskisystem in tmpfs22:25
jacekowskiand pivot_root22:25
DocScrutinizerzeltak: no way22:25
jacekowskiso real / would be unmounted22:25
jacekowskiwell, access to rootfs via usb would be possible22:25
zeltakthx DocScrutinizer what do i do regarding the application error on the gui app mnager? i got that after a fresh flash?22:25
jacekowskilike initrd with emergency stuff required to presetn filesystems via usb22:26
mikki-kunit would make experimenting less time-consuming if something dies accidently22:26
DocScrutinizerzeltak: reflash eMMC22:26
jacekowskipossible, not to complicated to do22:26
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zeltakahhh man..not again :(22:26
jacekowskiShadowJK: nolo will wait for usb when you press u during bootup22:27
DocScrutinizerzeltak: reflash both , even! you can't reflash eMMC without reflashing rootfs same time22:27
zeltakits weird...cant u reflash just the root..why do i always end up needing to reflash the emmc22:27
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: ^22:27
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zeltakso everytime i reflash one i have to reflash the other..thats sucks..\22:27
mikki-kunVenemo: wb22:28
MNZhrrmmm I wonder if we can create a rescue system sorta thing22:28
SpeedEviljacekowski: ?22:28
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: nolo will wait for usb when you press u during bootup22:28
MNZthe rootfs can be repartitioned right?22:28
GAN900zeltak, why are you reflashing with any frequency?22:28
DocScrutinizerzeltak: usually you can reflash just root. but seems you got a problem with apt cache, and you'll not fix that without reflashing eMMC, or gaining root which you can't22:28
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: you don't need any usb cable connected22:28
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: you just press u and it will wait for usb cable22:28
SpeedEvilMNZ: In principle, you can load an arbitrary kernel into RAM and boot it without flashin. So - kernel that knows how to boot off SD, and you're done.22:28
GAN900jacekowski, I think you need the cable in22:29
GAN900But it'll wait for the FLASHER:22:29
zeltakGAN900: first time systme was i have all emulators rebooting my n900 so i wanted a clean start to see if its a hardware issue22:29
zeltakoh well...gonna reflash the emmc as well..22:29
MNZSpeedEvil, that would be sweet, so next time I mess up my modules I can just boot up, extract the modules package manually and reboot22:29
mikki-kunzeltak: you can still make a backup of your emmc22:29
mikki-kuni'd do so if i was you22:30
zeltakyeah i know just thought emmc was like a /home on my nix system where i only had to reinstall root each time but i guess it dosent work that way22:30
SpeedEvilMNZ: Something that could boot not regardingany of the inbuilt flash, and do backup/restrore/checkpount would be nice.22:30
mikki-kunhm, i don't know how difficult that would be but i think it would be nice if somebody could implement that22:30
MNZSpeedEvil, my next project probably22:31
mikki-kunzeltak: what nokia made with maemo is imo disgusting >.< i typed "shutdown -h now" as root and it was like "did you input something? *after a minute* i guess i get something, hang on..."22:31
Venemomikki-kun: wtf?22:32
mikki-kunVenemo: yeah, dunno what was going on, i tried then with the power-button menu... it didn't even come up...22:32
mikki-kuni even went shortly for it to recognize from my base 600 to 90022:33
Venemomikki-kun: for me, long pressing the power key always takes care of this in seconds22:33
mikki-kuni decided to just kill it22:33
mikki-kunVenemo: i was being nice and just made the short press22:33
Venemomikki-kun: ah.22:33
mikki-kunso i can get the option "shutdown device"22:33
mikki-kunbut then i decided to just press it longer22:34
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mikki-kunbtw, with meego coming out all the software and drivers of it will be OSS, right?22:34
Venemomikki-kun: not all of them22:34
Venemomikki-kun: ask Stskeeps, he's expert22:35
mikki-kunit's really... unhelpful for the community of stuff is kept closed :(22:35
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mikki-kunjacekowski: btw, how can segfaults and floating point exceptions be triggered? i had that recently with uhm... fennec-v2_alpha and asciiportal22:37
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: s/shutdown -h/init 0/22:37
DocScrutinizerinstant shutdown22:37
mikki-kuni guess not the healthy one22:37
mikki-kunlike using kill -9 instead of kill -1522:38
DocScrutinizerthe problem is if you want all the swapped out apps to quit gracefully - possibly even with saving project files and shit22:38
mikki-kunhm, won't the swap clean itself every reboot?22:39
DocScrutinizersure it will22:39
mikki-kunahhh, i understood it empties the swap as well on shutdown22:40
DocScrutinizerno it just makes all the apps to *run* which implies a lot of swaping in pages for each app, if you're unlucky22:41
mikki-kunman, but diff is really a wonderful tool... "diff -ru $DIR_1 $DIR_2" and i know which files i need to copy over for the backup :)22:41
mikhasmikki-kun, you're doing it wrong - use rsycn ;-)22:41
mikhasrsync even22:41
mikki-kunmikhas: too lazy to set it up22:41
mikhasnothing to set up22:41
jacekowskimikki-kun: loads of reasons22:42
mikhas"rsync -avr origin target" (and can work through ssh)22:42
mikki-kun-avr... thanks :)22:42
jacekowskimikki-kun: poorly written apps in 99% of cases22:42
mikki-kuni'll remember that option22:42
jacekowskimikki-kun: and memory/cpu problems in 1% of cases22:43
mikki-kunjacekowski: hm, maybe the high temps here in TH didn't do it any good22:43
jacekowskimikki-kun: but if you OC then it's more likely that it's memory problem22:43
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: how would you make it delete files from target which are missing on source?22:43
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: hu? with the diff-method?22:43
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that's default22:43
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: to delete missing files22:44
mikki-kuni'd kill them manually22:44
DocScrutinizererr sorry, mikhas22:44
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mikki-kunahhh, ok ^^22:44
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: hmm22:44
jacekowskior --delete22:44
jacekowskihmm, yeah22:44
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DocScrutinizeranybody ever took notice of mc fish fs?22:45
mikki-kunmikhas: thanks for that really :) one step closer of setting up cronjobs with rsync then (when i have my server then for my file backups) :)22:45
DocScrutinizerfreakin haccker stuff, really :-D22:45
jacekowskii use it sometimes22:45
zeltakDocScrutinizer: i use it all the time22:45
mikhasmikki-kun, hm - I think I have some old scripts that were for that22:46
DocScrutinizerwell, I tried it but had to appreciate there's no rsh on N900 maemo22:46
mikki-kunjacekowski: how can i check my mem on the n900 and possibly the cpu? i had here really sometimes like 50°C inside of my device :( mostly happening lately while charging and having the screen on22:47
mikhasI even had one that would create snapshots via rsync, and make clever use of symlinks to save space22:47
jacekowskimikki-kun: have you overclocked?22:47
Zucca\o/ Finally got fMMS working. Serious gconftool usage was required. But now everything works. Thank you me.22:47
Stskeepsmikhas: meego(.com) n900 port would have very few blobs (3d accelerator, battery management), and they would be redistributable for non-commercial usage22:48
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: 50°C? forget it, not the least problem22:48
skyscraperMohammadAG51: when you'll write a tutorial? and wthout r&d?22:48
mikki-kunjacekowski: at some point i was too curious to see the results so yeah i did, but now i have it mostly running on 600 (at times when i see major slowdowns i will make some light OC and immediatly after change back when it is fluent again)22:49
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mikki-kunZucca: congrats :)22:49
jacekowskiand it happens only on fennec?>22:49
mikki-kunuhhh, fennec v2_alpha (segfault) and on asciiportal (game in the repos; extras-devel; flop error)22:50
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: you're the first one to pass DocScrutinizer's OC-fools test and earn the certificate "licence to OC" :-D22:51
mikki-kunbut on other stuff it seems to work flawlessly... though i am not sure what makes blessn900 distort the results so messy22:51
jacekowskishould we have a party22:52
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: hu, how come? just cause i use the console in executing the files and seeing immediatly after the execution those errors?22:52
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DocScrutinizermikki-kun: it's due to the fact you're offering a sane rationale about how to OC22:53
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jacekowskiwell, if i would OC it would be just because i like speed22:53
mikki-kunwhat for do i need my device running at 1.1 (not 1.15, doesn't work, dunno why, was curious what the max was and ended with 1.1 therefore) all the time when it works with 600 as well good enough... the 1.1 sucks my battery in no time dry22:54
jacekowskii would have to try that excuse with a police if i ever get caught22:54
skyscraperMohammadAG: when you'll write a tutorial? and wthout r&d?22:55
mikki-kunand i guess the guys at TI had a reason saying it is only made for 60022:55
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: if you were to consider when to fire one of your 4 solid matter fuel rocket boosters to enjoy speed, and you'd know after #4 you probably have to press the car to a cube...22:55
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I'd like to see what you're doing with your love for speed then22:56
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ZuccaAnyone succeeded on inserting alt key to maemo terminal?22:56
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mikki-kunZucca: i think the FN was considered alt (correct me if i am wrong guys)22:56
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jacekowskii recently had very unpleasant situation at ~40mph22:57
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: btw i am honored to be the first to pass your test :)22:57
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jacekowskii saw one bloke on bike overtaking me22:57
jacekowskion A class road with dual carriageway22:57
jacekowskibut it was raining and traffic in left lane was slow22:57
jacekowskiand there was another biker still behind me22:58
jacekowskiso i was waiting22:58
Zuccamikki-kun: I just addad 'alt' with gconf.22:58
jacekowskiand when i decided to change lane22:58
jacekowskii checked if he's still behing me22:58
ZuccaNow there's alt, but it has no effect.22:58
jacekowskibehind me*22:58
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: (TI had reason) if you're interested, /query infobot , type 'omap-oc'22:58
jacekowskiand slowly moved to right line22:59
jacekowskiand at that point he disappeared22:59
mikki-kunohhh, seems i either understood it then wrong or my mind switched some facts22:59
mikki-kunthanks DocScrutinizer, just did so22:59
jacekowskias it worked out he decided to accelerate and go in between lanes22:59
jacekowskiseriously, how stupid you have to be to do something like that23:00
jacekowskiduring rain23:00
GAN900jacekowski, well, he was on a bike.23:00
GAN900aka, organdonormobile23:01
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jacekowskipeople that want to drive bike should have compulsory IQ test23:01
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skyscraperMohammadAG are you there?23:02
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skyscraperi need a howto for your new ubuntu^^23:03
MohammadAGbusy fixing router with openwrt23:03
skyscraperhave done all like in the old how-to ... and tried to boot (without r&d) - wont boot.. - is r&d needed, in this version, too?23:04
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DocScrutinizerskyscraper: at least it's painless and easily revertible when you just try with R&D23:07
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skyscraperDocScrutinizer: i'm afraid activating R&D.... only did it one time and there was so much information on screen xD23:08
mikki-kunhm, nice stuff to read :)23:08
skyscraperMohammadAG: so R&D enable would help?23:08
MohammadAGit won't "help", it's a requirement23:08
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skyscraperokay xD23:09
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: btw, my first thought when i used kernel-power was when switching to "ideal" 'uhm, wtf?! i don't want to OC!'23:09
skyscraperis it true that i cant set R&D with windows-flasher3.523:09
mikki-kuni just want lower voltages... from my humble fast tests till now i can't say though if it consumes more or less mAs... it kinda seems to be on a lvl of ±5% i guess23:10
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MNZYou know we need a wiki page listing every known thing that can be optimized in maemo. Someone start it and devs will eventually add stuff.23:13
mikki-kunbut i found one funny thing... it happens when i am using microB and watching youtube-vids and want to also see some details (meaning i use the 480p version when available and in fullscreen; that usually needs a faster clockspeed, like 750 or 900, depening on the content as it looks) it seems to bring microB at times into an infinite refresh-loop of that page...23:14
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MNZThough for some reason I feel even when/if things run faster people will still OC23:14
MNZRegardless, someone start that wiki page!23:14
mikki-kunfirst i thought my voltages are too low and went with adding one additional notch to that freq and reloading the file but i suspect some 'routing-issue' inside the hardware, either stuff goes too fast or i dunno (not a pro in that)23:15
ShadowJKdevs use wikis?23:15
ShadowJK... devs use web browsers?23:15
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mikki-kunMNZ: OC'ing just pretends you are being 133723:16
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pytherIs there a web browser that won't refresh the page unless if something changed?23:16
mikki-kuneverybody can install power-kernel reboot, kernel-config load ideal and there he goes...23:16
mikki-kunthe real challenge lies in understanding how it is really done23:16
pytherI'm using the anyremote web ui and it loads something like http://tux.lan:5000/8.key will no new code get returned, making it silly and time consuming to refresh the page23:17
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ShadowJKso you wamt to look if something is new without looking if something is new :D23:18
mikki-kunpyther: hm, how do you mean? you are on that webpage and microB refreshes after some time the page itself?23:18
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pythermikki-kun: no I'm on http://localhost:5550/ I then click on a link for http://localhost:5550/key.6 this sends data to the http server, but no new data is being returned to the client (microb)23:19
mikki-kunShadowJK: i guess 'possible', like having a port open to the webpage and it then sends if some new stuff has appeared a 'refresh me' command23:19
ShadowJKhttp doesn't have that23:19
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pytherwell firefox works pretty well because it looks at what is returned vs what is loaded23:20
MNZShadowJK, actually it does :D Content-expiry23:20
pytherfirefox is just kinda chunky :P23:20
MNZno wait23:20
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MNZwrong header23:20
mikki-kunShadowJK: hm, how does the google-mail webinterface work then? i had it once idle and out of the blue it told me "please refresh me, new message arrived" (in a small infobox on the bottom right)23:20
ShadowJKsure, but it has to predict into future when new stuff happens :)23:20
MNZanywho, a browser plugin that checks the last-modified on the page every few seconds and refreshes page if it changed23:21
korhojoamikki-kun: that's ajax23:21
ShadowJKmikki-kun, there's a jabascript reloading a page at regular intervals to check for new stuff23:21
korhojoaisn't that what i just said?23:22
mikki-kuni've heard some stuff about that, but tbh i know as much about it as mankind knows about the billionth galaxy ^^23:22
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pytherI guess I'll just use firefox for the time being23:22
korhojoaasynchronous javascript and xml23:22
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ShadowJKoh so that's what it stands for23:22
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mikki-kunahh, that makes stuff a bit more understandable *rephrasing 'billionth galaxy' to 'our solar system'*23:23
ShadowJKI thought it meant "please make my browser's progress bar useless, and please silently hide all network failures from me and just silently fail, and also make my browser unresponsive kthx" :)23:23
mikki-kunShadowJK: not 'kthxbai'? ^^23:24
MNZNight folks. Toodles!23:24
ShadowJKpyther, oh so now you're implying your original question was something else entirely23:24
ShadowJKsince firefox/whatever has to do the exact same thing23:24
pytherwell yes, kinda23:24
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pytherI'm not sure how to explain it but with firefox it goes to the link I click on without reloading the page23:25
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: just out of curiosity, have you played around with changing the clockspeed of your n900?23:25
pythersince the link I click on just sends data to the web server23:25
pytherI don't have a good example :(23:25
ShadowJKI'm pretty sure microb and fennec make the exact same request when you click a link23:26
ShadowJK(ok user-agent would be different)23:26
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mikki-kunShadowJK: aren't the two actually using the same engine?23:26
ShadowJKdifferent versions probably23:27
mikki-kunwouldn't that then mean they are kind of having 99% similiarties in how they ask stuff and work "invisible" from the user23:27
ShadowJKAnd the front-ends are totally different, so whatever they display on screen is going to be whatever, probbly osmething random23:28
skyscraperMohammadAG51: works nice!23:28
mikki-kunShadowJK: i guess when the v2 beta arrives of fennec it will have a smoother ui than microB23:28
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mikki-kunwould love to try v2 but that segfault -.-23:30
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ShadowJKFunny that, I'm not sure I remember any examples of software getting leaner and faster with "upgrades" :)23:30
mikki-kunwill try again after the reflash on stock kernel23:30
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mikki-kuni read somewhere it will have running three independant threads then with each handling one specific major component23:32
mikki-kunlike one taking care of the UI, the other for the rendering and then the last one for the actual browser23:33
mikki-kunwill use more ressources though i guess23:33
mikki-kunShadowJK: here are the features listed to some degree
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mikki-kunhow do you think of that idea?23:39
ShadowJKmicrob has two threads btw :P23:40
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ShadowJKI'm pessimistic overall..23:41
ShadowJKI mean, nomatter how fast they make the browser, and the lengths they go to to accomplish that are simply amazing, the end-user experience isn't improving much at all23:42
ShadowJKbecause webmasters make sure as soon as browsers load their page at non-aggravatingly-slow speeds, they add more and more shit, crap and bloat to ensure users have an optimized experience of getting pissed off.23:44
mikki-kunin that case i'd just stop using their page23:44
mikki-kunor juse elinks23:45
ShadowJKbut everyone does it!23:45
mikki-kunsorry, seems i am having some massive caffeine-defficite lately23:45
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mikki-kunShadowJK: so far not :)23:45
mikki-kunand about:blank loads as fast as always XD23:45
ShadowJKthey added the fade-in crap..23:45
mikki-kuni actually like it to some degree23:46
mikki-kunnot like hating it, makes the page clean23:46
ShadowJKsure it looks nice and whatever23:46
ShadowJKI just don't like that it manages to slowdown a quad core computer23:47
mikki-kunwhat?! :o23:47
ShadowJKnot to mention n90023:47
mikki-kunmy atom loads that page nicely23:47
ShadowJKwhere the impact is even more disturbing23:47
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ShadowJKSometimes when looking for rare/esoteric information, I come across websites that haven't been touched since 199923:48
ShadowJKand man, they're /fast/23:48
ShadowJKlike, you click something and you don't even have time to alt-tab away before it loads and renders23:48
ShadowJKit's like, instant!23:49
ShadowJKnot having to wait for content to appear, that's so bloody awesome23:49
mikki-kunseems mankind forgot about efficiency and thinks it's important to have eyecandy23:49
mikki-kunthat's the reason apple sells like billions of efficient-unfriendly stuff23:50
mikki-kunlike e.g. itunes23:50
mikki-kuni have for that mpd and ncmpcpp and gtk-pod if needed for ipod-sync23:50
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ShadowJKi don't have a computer capable of running itunes, so..23:51
mikki-kunif i would kill my browser (conkeror, emacs-like webbrowser, built onto xulrunner) i could run my box on 256 ram ^^23:52
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ShadowJKfirefox on my desktop is like 1.5g rss :)23:53
mikki-kun1.5g rss?23:53
ShadowJK1.5gig memory use23:53
mikki-kun1.5gig?! if my conkeror runs like 400MB i kill it and restart it23:54
mikki-kunthat is insane :o23:54
ShadowJKwell I have 823:54
jacekowskimy opera uses 200M at most23:54
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mikki-kunhm, i have 2, so maybe explains why you don't mind that much ^^23:56
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ShadowJKbiggest problem is I stopped using bookmarks sometimes after opera invented tabbed browsing, and the point when websites became unusable with javascript & css switched off..23:56
mikki-kunbut are there tools for the n900 which can check it's mem and cpu?23:56
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tank-mantop and free23:58
ShadowJKand instead use tabs as bookmarks, because then it only takes .5 sec to display a web page instead of 5-60sec via a bookmark :)23:58
mikki-kuntank-man: i meant for testing if they are still working properly like memtest86+23:58
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mikki-kunand btw i think top isn't that userfriendly, i use htop in that case23:59

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