| ShadowJK | It's sequential at first until it reaches the end of the swap area, and then becomes increasingly random thereafter | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| luke-jr | too bad there's no way to specify "search when I have no other connection" | 00:00 |
| luke-jr | or at least "don't search, but DO start gprs when you get 2G/3G" | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - a nice sequential would be nice with GC | 00:00 |
| ShadowJK | i found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: So that if you come across a block with 16 free, and 4 used at the end, you want to swap out 8, you copy the 4, and do an atomic write of 12 | 00:01 |
| luke-jr | why do you assume swap fragmentation is a problem? | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: because it is | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | prove it | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Write speed of nonaligned blocks is hideously bad on SD | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | or emmc | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | if it was the problem, workaround would fix it | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | where blocks are 130K | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | or so | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | workaround? | 00:02 |
| luke-jr | [16:01:33] <ShadowJK> i found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 00:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm not saying swap is causing slowdown. | 00:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Just that swap is clearly broken, and should be fixed | 00:03 |
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| ShadowJK | luke-jr, after running my workaround, available swap bandwidth clearly increased, but, the system was also demanding more swap bandwidth | 00:03 |
| luke-jr | anyhow, I bet if you get rid of hildon-desktop, mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer, hildon-home, and osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs, it will work better | 00:03 |
| tobis87 | ShadowJK: yes, i have seen this earlier, nice graph.. But how is this caused? Is there no patch availilbe, so that the kernel rearrange the swap every day. | 00:04 |
| ShadowJK | no it never rearranges swap | 00:04 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, or identify the leaks - are you using the latest build? I recall madam fixing some leaks around | 00:04 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, anyway in my use the mafw-* stuff crashes pretty regulary, and it uses dsp. on N810 the memory management was totally broken on that side | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I'm using what is in the repos | 00:05 |
| lcuk | so give latest a retest and see, and if it cures most, brilliant, if not if you can see where and give some pointers.. | 00:05 |
| ShadowJK | so im beginning to wonder if I lose some 10 megs of physical ram at each crash | 00:05 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, which repos | 00:05 |
| lcuk | standard pr1.2 binaries? | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: whatever the M5 repos are | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 00:05 |
| lcuk | ok | 00:05 |
| lcuk | cos the hildon components have had some work done later as you know | 00:06 |
| lcuk | in prep for a pr whatever | 00:06 |
| ShadowJK | because at the end the device was behaving pretty much like as if it had 64m physical ram | 00:06 |
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| ShadowJK | the end being before I gave up and rebooted | 00:06 |
| lcuk | it would be really good if you could give them a try | 00:06 |
| lcuk | ask MohammadAG51 about repository with them | 00:06 |
| tripzero | i wonder how nokia is going to handle harmattan 3rd party packages | 00:07 |
| tripzero | seems like they just lost the community to upstream meego | 00:07 |
| tobis87 | to arrange the memory in order to have large chunks of free memory in swap, instead of small chunks, which cause fragmentation... This remembers me somehow of ms-dos, the drivers also needed to be loadhighed in a special order, so they all fit in the upper memory block. | 00:09 |
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| ShadowJK | tripzero, they'll get a thermonuclear device, drop it on third party devs, start requiring birth certificates, photo id, and a phd from ovi store contributors, break ovi store payments handling, and then proclaim the entire operation an outstanding success | 00:10 |
| tripzero | lol | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | killed those 5 processes and system is back to lag-free | 00:10 |
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| luke-jr | tobis87: that makes no sense | 00:10 |
| ShadowJK | do you lose open apps if you kill hildon-desktop? | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: no | 00:11 |
| ShadowJK | oh awesome | 00:11 |
| ShadowJK | iirc on n810 you did | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | those apps appear to have gracefully restarted | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | other apps unaffected | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | had to -9 hildon-home tho | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | until I did that, it remained laggy | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | so hildon-home at least is a major lag inducer :P | 00:11 |
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| luke-jr | so… when does cron.daily run on Maemo? :P | 00:18 |
| ShadowJK | lol? | 00:19 |
| ShadowJK | does cron run at all? | 00:19 |
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| tobis87 | luke-jr: how? i thought the swap is used sequential first, later programs use space, which is located after the space which is used by earlier programs... if the swap is nearly full and you close a program, the space is freed, but another programm might need more space than the program you have closed. So the memory the new program allocates is scattered all over the disk. | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: /etc/cron.daily/ exists… :/ | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not to program granularity | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | It's whatever per swapout the swap algorithm thought it was right to swapout | 00:22 |
| luke-jr | tobis87: if swap is ever used more than a day, that's a waste of memory | 00:22 |
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| luke-jr | a specific block of swap, I mean | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | to be used, pages need to be loaded into RAM | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | so if it stays in swap, you're not using it | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | if something pushed to swap is later modified or freed completely, it ceases to exist on swap device | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | or read | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | well, I suppose Linux might retain the swap record to skip the "write to swap" later… | 00:24 |
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| luke-jr | actually, fragmentation per the usual meaning might be good for swap | 00:25 |
| luke-jr | on SSD | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 00:26 |
| luke-jr | write whatever 32 (4K) pages you want to get rid of first to the same block.. | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | you don't care about intra-block fragmentation at all | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | only inter-block | 00:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Then you need some sort of GC algorithm too | 00:26 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, pages both in swap and ram are counted as swap cache :P | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | it's in /proc/meminfo even | 00:27 |
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| tobis87 | ok, only some is swapped out, but it is sequential right? so, if i leave my device on all the time, linux thinks i can swap this out because it is not used since a certain amount of time. and this is randomly? so, you have the problem that the data next to each other does not belong together? i don't know, could someone tell me why the swap get's messed up after some days? | 00:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not randomly | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | something keeps track of how often pages are used | 00:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | the least used ones get thrown out | 00:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | Simply as once you've swapped out the first 768M - say - the first 132K eraseblock may have 8 free 4K pages. | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | If you write these, the device internally has to do a read of 100K, for the initial data, and then a write of the whole 132k block | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | So the speed is 1/4 of what it might otherwise be | 00:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | If there were only 4K free, then the speed is 1/32 of normal write speed | 00:37 |
| * satmd has a wd drive that is 4k sectors, but tells the os it has 512byte sectors | 00:37 | |
| * satmd sighs | 00:37 | |
| SpeedEvil | Exactly the situation with SD | 00:37 |
| satmd | 'alignment' | 00:38 |
| satmd | yeah | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | But the real sectors in that case are 130K or so | 00:38 |
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| satmd | well, most filesystems by themselves use 4k boundaries | 00:38 |
| satmd | but! | 00:38 |
| satmd | that only works if those are at the same offset as the underlying blockdevice | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | exact alignment can vary | 00:38 |
| satmd | so, more fun example | 00:39 |
| satmd | 4k block you change first 2 byte | 00:39 |
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| satmd | worst case you'll have to redo 2 blocks of the blockdevice, each 4k | 00:39 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | except on sd/mmc/emmc each is like 128-256k :) | 00:40 |
| satmd | :) | 00:40 |
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| ShadowJK | so 2 bytes can turn into half a meg :D | 00:40 |
| luke-jr | wtf | 00:40 |
| luke-jr | N900 laggy again | 00:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, ping | 00:41 |
| kerio | i want to be able to write a single bit | 00:42 |
| kerio | no, HALF a bit | 00:42 |
| satmd | :D | 00:42 |
| satmd | tristate bits? | 00:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | kerio, MALF a bit? | 00:42 |
| luke-jr | actually, writing half-bits doesn't cost anything on NAND… <.< | 00:42 |
| luke-jr | so long as the half is always 0 | 00:43 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, | 00:43 |
| kerio | satmd: how else are you going to represent FileNotFound? | 00:43 |
| mnzaki | How do I use the deb package generated by building the kernel package on scratchbox?? The kernel package is just a deb that installs a .fiasco kernel in /boot, what then? | 00:43 |
| lcuk | kerio, you have been reading too much dailywtf | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, what was the repo question about? | 00:43 |
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| kerio | lcuk: i have | 00:43 |
| lcuk | it wasnt afaik | 00:43 |
| kerio | is it unhealthy? | 00:43 |
| lcuk | extremely | 00:43 |
| kerio | it's brillant | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | mnzaki, er, you should get more than one package | 00:44 |
| tobis87 | ok, the pages are not randomly swaped out, but after usage. my point is, if not all pages of a program are swapped out, you could have some pages belonging to the same program swapped out later and very far away from the page which also belongs to the program. And reading all pages for a program would be, very slow, because the pages are not after another. | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | -modules and a -flasher package | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: no | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: random reads on flash are not particularly slow | 00:44 |
| mnzaki | MohammadAG51, yeah I just unpacked the flasher package and the postinst doess the magic apparently | 00:44 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the flasher package is only a postinst anyways :P | 00:44 |
| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: all right, i really need to forget all of the harddrive stuff. | 00:45 |
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| MNZ | one final thing, just how 'easy' is it to restore the stock kernel? I need to download the entire firmware image? | 00:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | no lol | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG51 | apt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG51 | and you're done | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG51 | if you brick the device, just dl the kernel package from the repos on a pc and extract using dpkg-deb | 00:47 |
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| luke-jr | or emerge fremantle-sources etc | 00:52 |
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| ShadowJK | tobis87, imagine app A and app B. A shows your smss. B is for camera. You're texting and B has all its pages 0-7 swapped out to swap pages 0-7 covering sd blocks 0-1. You open camera lens cover. B's pages 0-1 are immediately swapped in and modified by B. Swap now has 0-1 unused. two pages from A get swapped out to 8-9. when you switch back to A, two pages from B get swapped to 10-11, and A's two pages are brought back in again. Now the swap file has two h | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | oles in it. fragmentation | 00:52 |
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| ShadowJK | And before you ask, writing in the first hole immediately to fill it makes sd rewrite the entire block | 00:53 |
| ShadowJK | which is what we wanted to avoid in the first place | 00:53 |
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| tobis87 | ShadowJK: So using ramzswap is a good idea, because it only modifies as much as actually is used. Writing and reading to/from storage causes to much to read/write because of alignment. | 01:02 |
| ShadowJK | um. | 01:02 |
| tobis87 | i mean swap on storage, emmc | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | it doesn't change access patterns in any signigicant way afaik | 01:03 |
| lcuk | question: total number of applications in maeme extras-devel at this time (not counting dupes) how do I get that figure? | 01:03 |
| tobis87 | ShadowJK: ?, I thought the alignment was the problem, if ramzswap only write to memory, there shouldn't be a alignment. | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | well you still have swap | 01:05 |
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| ShadowJK | unless you want to encounter "Operation disabled due to low memory" constantly | 01:05 |
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| DrIDK | Is it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ? | 01:08 |
| tobis87 | if it is a problem of alignment in general, why is this only caused after some time? because the free space of the swap partiton lies between two physical sectors? | 01:08 |
| DrIDK | Is it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ? | 01:08 |
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| ShadowJK | tobis87, because physical sectors on sd are 128-256k and ram sector are 4k. | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | DrIDK: sort of | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras | 01:10 |
| DrIDK | SpeedEvil: awesome!! | 01:11 |
| tobis87 | ShadowJK: Yes, but ramzswap with a size of 32mb, compresses 80mb of data... so i only need sometimes to write on storage. Ok, i have recenly read an article on these new 4k harddrives.... My problem is really that i'm still with my thoughts on regualar harddrives. | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ also | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Look at the last two peaks | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | they correlate with the latest version becoming available in testing, and then 10 days later (ish) extras | 01:13 |
| ShadowJK | 4k harddrives are fine, the os deals with 4k chunks of data too, even if it would talk in 512 byte chunks of data over sata. Worsr case is the harddrive writing double amount of data | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Which incidentally implies that about 70% or so of people have extras-testing turned on. | 01:14 |
| DrIDK | SpeedEvil: how many repos are there : extra , test, and ? | 01:15 |
| tobis87 | Yes, you have to make sure the partition starts on sector, which is a multiplier of 8. I do understand it now, damn aligments... Can the kernel not be patched to modify ram sectors | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Also rthat maybe 100K peeps have fmms installed. | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | DrIDK: testing, devel, extras | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | tobis87, the hardware memory management unit deals with 4k pages | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: yes | 01:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | tobis87: But you really don't want 130k pages | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | VAX had 512 byte pages I heard someone say :-) | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | This is one of those setting your foot on fire to cure athletes foot problems. | 01:17 |
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| ShadowJK | big pages only make sense for a few specialized things that do their own extensive memory management, like java | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - the above count counts all downloads - extras, testing, and devel | 01:17 |
| tobis87 | No, not for the ram, but can't you, just say collect 130k pages first, and then sync them to disk. | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | http://qdb.us/301221 | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | on memory managment | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: yes. | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: But then the pages written get 'deleted' one by one, until you have a fragmented swap | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | where deletion really means the app owning the page has accessed and modified it | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | and the kernel therefore dropped the swapped page, so it's 'free' | 01:19 |
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| tobis87 | Nah, I avoid java as much as I can, even more after oracle got it. I even consider to not use brtfs in the future, because it was developed from oracle... | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | this may not have actually been ever read from disk though | 01:20 |
| ShadowJK | ideally you'd predict the future so that the pages are written in the order in which the apps will in the future access and modify them, which also requires predicting exactly what the user is going to do, which buttons the user will press in which order, and so on :) | 01:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | You might as well not use ReiserFS due to the fact that the developer throws out perfectly good car-seats. | 01:20 |
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| BugBlue | ext4 is just missing the killer features | 01:21 |
| luke-jr | I think ext4 developers place their wives above killer features. | 01:22 |
| BugBlue | don't be so serious :) | 01:22 |
| BugBlue | let's see ho btrfs turns out, they promise killing features | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - it hasn't been proved yet that ext3 devs haven't killed people. | 01:22 |
| merlincorey | true | 01:23 |
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| luke-jr | BugBlue: it was a pun | 01:23 |
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| tobis87 | ShadowJK: So I assume, regarding swap, the best way how it could be done, was already done, | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | well not really | 01:28 |
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| xnt14 | Gah! just racked up a $200 bill because MyNokia sent messages to germany... | 01:30 |
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| xnt14 | hmm | 01:30 |
| * xnt14 calls t-mobile | 01:30 | |
| Stskeeps | why would it want to do that? | 01:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:30 |
| xnt14 | Stskeeps: apparently, according to my bill, my N900 sent 40 messages to germany... | 01:31 |
| xnt14 | I googled the number | 01:31 |
| * BugBlue suggests *any* textplan.. | 01:31 | |
| xnt14 | registered to nokia | 01:31 |
| BugBlue | xnt14: does it start with 0049? | 01:31 |
| Stskeeps | xnt14: you're in US aren't you? | 01:31 |
| xnt14 | Stskeeps: yeah | 01:31 |
| BugBlue | 5 dollars a text? | 01:31 |
| xnt14 | I have an unlimited texting plan, but its domestic, not internatonal | 01:31 |
| luke-jr | BugBlue: long distance | 01:31 |
| xnt14 | BugBlue: hmm | 01:32 |
| * xnt14 checks | 01:32 | |
| tobis87 | BugBlue: well i don't know of ext4, but reiser4 might had a KILLER feature... :-D i try to be not to serious, but if micro$oft would ever develop one of the best filesystems, would you use it? i mean look at what oracle now pulls of, after they got sun, i don't like android, put a patent war.... is always not nice. | 01:32 |
| BugBlue | when I message outside of my plan (like international) I pay about 25 cents a text | 01:32 |
| xnt14 | BugBlue: yeah | 01:32 |
| luke-jr | tobis87: arguably NTFS is one of the best | 01:32 |
| BugBlue | (eurocents, I don't know what the dollar right now does, but it can't be 5$) | 01:32 |
| BugBlue | tobis87: no. I won't use ZFS either | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | how many eurocents in a euro? | 01:33 |
| BugBlue | luke-jr: 100 | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | lame | 01:33 |
| xnt14 | hmm | 01:33 |
| tobis87 | luke-jr: which is a better version of hpfs... which was developed from ibm and microsoft together. | 01:33 |
| BugBlue | it's a lot in seperate coins :) | 01:33 |
| xnt14 | perhaps I should replace mynokia's daemon binary with a shell script... | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | there should be 16 shilling to a dollar, and 16 cents to a shilling | 01:34 |
| BugBlue | the last time I tried to pay in the UK there were 100 pence in a pound | 01:35 |
| kerio | luke-jr: so a cent is actually a 256th? | 01:35 |
| BugBlue | kerio: 1 bit of a byte | 01:35 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 01:35 |
| * BugBlue off | 01:35 | |
| BugBlue | trying to reclaim my bed | 01:35 |
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| babsher | fat32 | 01:36 |
| Stskeeps | xnt14: to my knowledge it should allow you to unsubscribe or opt-out in the US, but i might be wrong | 01:36 |
| kerio | from the latin centum, -i, meaning a hundred | 01:36 |
| Stskeeps | xnt14: but running up 200mb worth of messages seem a bit wild and you should complain in a shop | 01:36 |
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| xnt14 | Stskeeps: I tried, it failed, it also sent me a message (from a US shortcode) saying that unsubscription failed | 01:37 |
| Stskeeps | xnt14: i'd go complain where you bought it then.. but then again, it does say on the box costs may be encountered | 01:37 |
| tobis87 | i still hear ballmer being amousted of the therm k-locs used by ibm, for lines of code... He said microsoft could do more efficiant code, in less... blah, blah... blast from the past, serious i think os/2 couldn't have been as bad as windows got. | 01:37 |
| xnt14 | Stskeeps: the N900? | 01:38 |
| Stskeeps | xnt14: right | 01:38 |
| xnt14 | question is, whats the point in complaining to amazon? I like my N900... besides MyNokia... | 01:39 |
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| xnt14 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10506 - why is this marked as unconfirmed? it looks like it has solid evidence behind it. | 01:41 |
| povbot | Bug 10506: 'My nokia' unsubscribe attempt costs money. This is in breach of the UK regulations on premium rate texts. | 01:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. | 01:45 |
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| cehteh | woot ... i just accidentally found out the emergency call feature of the n900 when its locked | 01:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | how? | 01:55 |
| kerio | :o emergency call? | 01:56 |
| psycho_oreos | there's nothing new about that | 01:57 |
| kerio | how do you access it? | 01:57 |
| crashanddie | xnt14: because this is hairy issue. If they confirm the bug, they're basically accepting guilt. I know the council tried to do something, but it ended up being pretty moot as I recall | 01:57 |
| psycho_oreos | when you have screen lock and you have to enter phone lock code you dial in the emergency phone numbers and there will be a call button | 01:57 |
| kerio | oh | 01:58 |
| crashanddie | psycho_oreos: which is standard behaviour on nearly any phone in the world | 01:58 |
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| crashanddie | psycho_oreos: take any old phone, and when you *boot* it, and it asks for the PIN, just type 112 or 911, and it will offer to dial emergency | 01:58 |
| lcuk | my potential meego summit brief: | 01:59 |
| lcuk | Maemo Community, Standing on the shoulders of giants. http://pastebin.com/h5cE5QjR | 01:59 |
| lcuk | can someone give me a quick review :$ | 01:59 |
| psycho_oreos | crashanddie, I was merely pointing out what cehteh said was not of a big relevance | 01:59 |
| crashanddie | psycho_oreos: and I was merely furthering that point | 01:59 |
| tobis87 | where did these numbers actually came from? | 02:00 |
| psycho_oreos | crashanddie, better yet is to direct that to cehteh rather than me :p | 02:00 |
| crashanddie | well, you keep highlighting him, so no need ;) | 02:00 |
| lcuk | tobis87, which numbers? the 25k members is direct from stats gathered last year | 02:00 |
| cehteh | .. type 911 or 112 or 000 into the passcode dialog | 02:00 |
| psycho_oreos | not until now | 02:00 |
| cehteh | prolly nothing new, but i dint know it | 02:00 |
| lcuk | and the nearly 6k is from directly checking extras-devel a little while ago | 02:00 |
| cehteh | a "Emergency Call" button appears then (better do not hit it) | 02:01 |
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| tobis87 | no, 112 or 911...? why did they choice these, easy to remember, or why | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Is ecosystem really hyphenated? | 02:01 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: is that the lcuk who started liqbase talking, or the marketing guy who was invited to Nokia HQ? | 02:01 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: it isn't | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I would go "this entire ecosystem" rather than "the entire" | 02:01 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, this is the person who knows where meego stands now with reinventing the wheel. | 02:01 |
| lcuk | done | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - "this ecosystem" | 02:02 |
| crashanddie | "grand ecosystem" | 02:02 |
| lcuk | :) | 02:02 |
| lcuk | done | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It's also too wordy | 02:02 |
| tobis87 | anyway my favorite: 0118 999 881 999 119 72 <- should have been in the n900 as an easteregg :-D | 02:03 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, its also very near the deadline and I have been ill | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | 'The entire eco-system has worked steadily to produce a rock solid platform capable of supporting every usecase possible with some of the most passionate developers on the planet' | 02:03 |
| lcuk | and its only an abstract | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Fair enough | 02:03 |
| crashanddie | "capable of supporting every usecase possible"? | 02:03 |
| crashanddie | That's quite detached from the truth, isn't it? | 02:03 |
| lcuk | tell me something maemo *cannot* do | 02:03 |
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| tobis87 | http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_IT_Crowd#Calamity_Jen_.5B1.2.5D | 02:03 |
| crashanddie | Synch with exchange? | 02:04 |
| lcuk | haha | 02:04 |
| lcuk | i thought it could at some level | 02:04 |
| lcuk | MfE? | 02:04 |
| lcuk | potentially? | 02:04 |
| crashanddie | doesn't work | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Capable of supporting is somehwat meaningless if nobody actually knows the bits to poke to do it as they involve closed bits. | 02:04 |
| crashanddie | well, nice idea, completely screwed though | 02:04 |
| lcuk | then it will be fixed | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Also. | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Stuff does not always get fixed. | 02:04 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: the product's been out for a year nearly, it should've been fixed | 02:05 |
| crashanddie | especially considering it was part of the marketing material | 02:05 |
| lcuk | well talk to different parties | 02:05 |
| lcuk | i am on about community stuff :P | 02:05 |
| crashanddie | and no, synching contacts through MfE and email through IMAP isn't "working" | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a deadline. You have perhaps 2-3 years of ongoing development by different people on the n900. | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | After that time, the people fall away, and it's left to bitrot. | 02:05 |
| lcuk | ok, somewhat bikeshedding :P should I submit this as is and then bicker? | 02:06 |
| crashanddie | my speculation: the same will happen to MeeGo | 02:06 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: one thing I'd change | 02:06 |
| * lcuk is all up for change | 02:06 | |
| lcuk | will need to write the full keynote anyway | 02:06 |
| crashanddie | second line into the abstract: "creating everything from tiny scratch their own itch hacks" | 02:06 |
| lcuk | and will hope to get input on it :) | 02:07 |
| lcuk | into? | 02:07 |
| crashanddie | that reads just so wrong | 02:07 |
| lcuk | ok so reword it, ill go make a brew | 02:07 |
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| pyther | Hi | 02:10 |
| crashanddie | "... have been involved in the community at different stages creating a wealth of products and knowledge, ranging from little hacks that soothed an itch, to full-blown games, kernel modules and even quality assurance procedures" | 02:10 |
| pyther | I have a mythfrontend and I would like to use my N900 to control it, as a remote | 02:10 |
| pyther | Does anyone know of any prgorams that will allow me to do this? | 02:10 |
| crashanddie | what the hell is a mythfrontend? | 02:10 |
| lcuk | ta crashanddie that does read better :) | 02:11 |
| pyther | myth tv (the frontend; gui application) | 02:11 |
| crashanddie | "Enter Meego, slick, shiny, cross platform and fully supported. A veritable Prince Charming offering to cure all the deficiencies." | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: http://pastebin.com/7au3snWT - thoughts | 02:12 |
| crashanddie | That one made me smile, choke, almost, too. | 02:12 |
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| n900uk | hello | 02:13 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, combined with the line change crashanddie just supplied I think that works well | 02:13 |
| n900uk | i directed by the wiki that i can get help here | 02:14 |
| lcuk | :) thanks | 02:14 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, it even earmarks the "but" quite well | 02:14 |
| crashanddie | n900uk: sure, how can we help? | 02:15 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: you're the butt with earmarks :D | 02:15 |
| * SpeedEvil solves n900uks problem. | 02:15 | |
| * SpeedEvil puts down the anvil. | 02:15 | |
| n900uk | i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file | 02:15 |
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| psycho_oreos | it might be a perms issue | 02:16 |
| lcuk | ok crashanddie SpeedEvil this looks reasonable to submit for now http://pastebin.com/KzmicX7E | 02:16 |
| crashanddie | ok, wifi -> macbookpro -> ethernet bridge -> vmware -> ubuntu -> tftp -> ethernet cable -> 5 year old laptop downloading debian; definitely not fast | 02:16 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: if it's just a draft, yup | 02:16 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, its enough for a submission | 02:17 |
| lcuk | it has to be expanded into a full keynote | 02:17 |
| lcuk | by the time of the summit | 02:17 |
| crashanddie | gfi | 02:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - whart's the audience. | 02:17 |
| lcuk | and I have to get over my nerves | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Is hackers appropriate. | 02:17 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: yes | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Imagine the audience completely naked. | 02:17 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: that so doesn't work | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: And covered in marmite. | 02:17 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, will discuss this later | 02:17 |
| lcuk | i might have more on stage with me | 02:18 |
| lcuk | :) | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: last time I tried that, some hot chick gave me wood, I could not move from behind the projector | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:18 |
| lcuk | i bet that made an uncomfortable shadow | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | I was on the good side of the projector | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | (not the shiny side) | 02:18 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: which file, and where? | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | n900: and trying to acess it how. | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: you're gone further than we thought... you talk to your n900 now? | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | over IRC? | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: yes. | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Sometimes it's the easiest way to copy and paste | 02:19 |
| n900uk | so far in my download folder and my camera. have not tried the rest yet | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: in nomine patris et fillii et spiritus sancti | 02:20 |
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| pyther | Can I run a java app on my N900? | 02:21 |
| crashanddie | pyther: only through the debian chroot | 02:21 |
| pyther | :( | 02:21 |
| pyther | anyremote is missing from the repos | 02:21 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: you sponsored for the meegocon? | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there any deep reason why java plugins couldn't be supported in the browser? Or is it just nobodies compiled it? | 02:22 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: Open Xterm, cd MyDocs; ls -a; -> http://pastebin.com/ | 02:22 |
| derf | AFAIK no one's gotten Java working on the device at all. | 02:22 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: probably because nobody is interested in browser java plugins | 02:23 |
| b-man` | pyther: icedtea6 is available for maemo | 02:23 |
| b-man` | so yes, you can run java apps | 02:23 |
| pyther | ahh ok, cool | 02:24 |
| crashanddie | b-man`: how fast is it? | 02:24 |
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| derf | Well, shows how much I know. | 02:24 |
| crashanddie | derf: ditto | 02:24 |
| crashanddie | though, icedtea? | 02:24 |
| b-man` | crashanddie: i've been able to run netbeans on my n900 ;) | 02:24 |
| crashanddie | seriously? | 02:24 |
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| b-man` | yup | 02:24 |
| derf | It could be worse. | 02:25 |
| crashanddie | who comes up with these crap names? | 02:25 |
| derf | It could be blackdown. | 02:25 |
| b-man` | rofl | 02:25 |
| crashanddie | next we'll have an east coast rapper called nosy puss | 02:25 |
| tobis87 | tobis87: sorry, you should do ls -ao instead... | 02:26 |
| lcuk | submitted: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/maemo-community-standing-shoulders-giants | 02:26 |
| b-man` | there was already an application available called fapman LOL | 02:26 |
| crashanddie | tobis87: people died on the stake for less than that | 02:26 |
| tobis87 | argh, i did mean n900uk: | 02:26 |
| b-man` | *available for maemo | 02:26 |
| crashanddie | b-man`: yeah, I just can't help myself and smile everytime I see that name | 02:27 |
| tobis87 | crashanddie: well, people in general learn by failure... even evolution works that way. | 02:27 |
| b-man` | LOL | 02:27 |
| crashanddie | b-man`: "Fapman, for uber geeks, and uber fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap" | 02:27 |
| b-man` | xDD | 02:28 |
| crashanddie | I thought it was a porn media manager before reading the description | 02:28 |
| b-man` | he really should have thought of a better name xD | 02:28 |
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| crashanddie | anyway, off to bed | 02:30 |
| crashanddie | 'later all | 02:30 |
| MNZ | good night | 02:30 |
| tobis87 | we also have MaeGirls, and i was interested, maybe some way to get in contact to the other side of the maemo community | 02:31 |
| tobis87 | but, no it is only a monitor for women's cycle :-D | 02:31 |
| crashanddie | yeah, other ideas for the name was "maenstrual" | 02:32 |
| n900uk | tobis87: done | 02:32 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: pastebin.com link? | 02:33 |
| n900uk | yes | 02:33 |
| tobis87 | where? | 02:33 |
| n900uk | http://pastebin.com/hEV5GQSE | 02:34 |
| lcuk | retweet this ppl: https://twitter.com/lcuk/status/22307306537 | 02:34 |
| lcuk | please :$ | 02:34 |
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| tobis87 | n900uk: sorry, you forgot a space in the command do "lsX-ao" where X stands for a space. | 02:35 |
| n900uk | okay | 02:37 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: I will not | 02:37 |
| lcuk | why will you not :P | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | because I'm not a twit | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | I do not twitter | 02:39 |
| MNZ | no one 'twitters'. We tweet. | 02:39 |
| MNZ | :P | 02:39 |
| lcuk | ok mnz, will you tweet https://twitter.com/lcuk/status/22307306537 please | 02:39 |
| crashanddie | s/t /t use/ | 02:39 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: I do not usetwitter | 02:39 |
| crashanddie | crap | 02:39 |
| MNZ | lcuk, sure thing. | 02:40 |
| n900uk | tobis87:http://pastebin.com/R584zZt0 | 02:41 |
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| tobis87 | ~nuke messybox | 02:42 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... B☢☢M! | 02:42 | |
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| tobis87 | n900uk: the problem is, that i don't have my n900 right here, and the ls is diffrent from the normal ls on linux pc's... so this command is also not correct try "lsX-al" where X stands for a space, please... could be caused by a permission problem | 02:45 |
| tobis87 | btw, how did you get a autorun.inf in there? | 02:46 |
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| n900uk | me? | 02:47 |
| FIQ | ~seen khertan | 02:47 |
| infobot | khertan is currently on #maemo (3h 19m 29s), last said: 'How i can add shortcut on menu on maemo with qt ... QAction with shortcut are ignore'. | 02:47 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: yes | 02:47 |
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| n900uk | i dont know much about that. am just a learner | 02:48 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: yes, thats ok, could you please do ls -al in pastebin.com | 02:49 |
| n900uk | i opened the xterminal afresh and typed as advised: no such file or directory | 02:53 |
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| tobis87 | did you do: cd_MyDocs (after that) ls_-al (underlines are space)? | 02:55 |
| n900uk | space | 02:56 |
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| tobis87 | yes, since you typed first time without space, but yes underlines (_) should be space | 02:57 |
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| tobis87 | i mean you should type in " " instead of "_" | 02:57 |
| n900uk | ok | 02:58 |
| n900uk | so: ls al | 02:58 |
| tobis87 | after you done "cd MyDocs", yes | 02:59 |
| n900uk | ok | 02:59 |
| tobis87 | you can also use TAB, to complete the folder name, e. g. "cd M(press TAB)", should complete to "cd MyDocs" | 03:00 |
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| tobis87 | no, not ls al, ls -al | 03:00 |
| tobis87 | don't forget the minus sign, it is for parameters | 03:01 |
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| n900uk | http://pastebin.com/GAqRevv9 | 03:03 |
| n900uk | tobis87: posted | 03:04 |
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| MNZ | n900uk, what file are you trying to delete? | 03:06 |
| tobis87 | ok, shouldn't be a permission problem, | 03:06 |
| n900uk | at first a torrent file, would not delete the my pictures will not as well | 03:07 |
| tobis87 | MNZ: (01:15:44) n900uk: i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file | 03:08 |
| n900uk | thanks :) | 03:09 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: open xterm; cd MyDocs/.images and do ls, then try to delete file with "rm filename" (you can use TAB to autocomplete filename e.g. f(TAB) foo) | 03:10 |
| n900uk | k | 03:11 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=800473#post800473 | 03:11 |
| * lcuk crossposts :P | 03:11 | |
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| tobis87 | n900uk: btw, you don't need to be root (sudo gainroot), how can't you do ls, while being root? :) Which kernel do you use? | 03:15 |
| n900uk | am doing it | 03:15 |
| n900uk | i always start with sudo gainroot | 03:16 |
| tobis87 | why? | 03:16 |
| yigal | is there some way to emulate 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons in Easy Debian? | 03:16 |
| tobis87 | you could easily mess up things with it! | 03:16 |
| n900uk | i taught it was admin pass | 03:17 |
| yigal | sudo make mel a sandwich | 03:17 |
| yigal | oops I mean me | 03:18 |
| n900uk | so should av typed cd/ MyDocs first | 03:18 |
| mortini | tobis87: uh, doing 'sudo whatever' is doing things as root, it offers no protection (unless someone specifically configued it thusly) | 03:18 |
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| n900uk | okay | 03:18 |
| mortini | even then, it'd likely not protect from every possible stupidity. | 03:18 |
| tobis87 | yes, but you know it is not windows vista,7; on /home/user or ~ you don't need to be root. might be a problem, that you have created a file as root, and you can't delete it as an user | 03:18 |
| yigal | no Im just pointing out how one little mistyped thing with su can fu up. | 03:19 |
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| tobis87 | mortini: i know, (02:15:05) tobis87: n900uk: btw, you DON'T need to be root | 03:19 |
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| n900uk | i have the files listed now, can i still proceed with the command line | 03:20 |
| tobis87 | i don't know which files you want to delete... to delete files, you do "rm filename" | 03:21 |
| n900uk | just about to ''rm filename" | 03:21 |
| yigal | or if folder, rm -r foldername | 03:21 |
| tobis87 | don't tell him | 03:22 |
| tobis87 | he only wants to remove a picture and a torrent | 03:22 |
| tobis87 | filename is the name of the picture or torrent | 03:22 |
| tobis87 | with rm -r you can easily mess up more stuff, you only want to delete a picture, not _all_ pictures | 03:23 |
| yigal | tobis87 if we shouldn@ | 03:24 |
| yigal | t tell him that he shouldn't be using cl | 03:24 |
| yigal | i | 03:25 |
| yigal | damn n900 keyboard | 03:25 |
| tobis87 | maybe, today, you are only a n900 user, if you have flashed it once, | 03:25 |
| n900uk | actually, the file is not in the list. the holding folder is camera and not image | 03:25 |
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| tobis87 | but camera is not in your list on http://pastebin.com/GAqRevv9 | 03:26 |
| MNZ | DCIM | 03:26 |
| MNZ | n900uk, look in the folder called DCIM | 03:26 |
| tobis87 | yes, forgot that... sorry | 03:26 |
| n900uk | yes. i noticed it dint come up | 03:26 |
| n900uk | okay | 03:27 |
| yigal | man FCam rocks, I wish I had as much control for my digital camera as I do on my n900's. | 03:29 |
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| yigal | it's too bad I like using xfig but I need 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons. | 03:32 |
| n900uk | so it is cd MyDocs/ .DCIM | 03:32 |
| tobis87 | no, MyDocs/DCIM | 03:33 |
| tobis87 | DCIM is not hidden | 03:33 |
| n900uk | okay | 03:33 |
| tobis87 | hidden folder/files on linux start with . | 03:33 |
| tobis87 | cd MyDocs/DCIM after that do ls | (-> up( the key under ctrl) and strg) and choise | ) grep -i filename | 03:36 |
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| tobis87 | so the the command is ls | grep -i filename | 03:38 |
| tobis87 | sorry, not strg... strg is the same as ctrl in german | 03:39 |
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| n900uk | the result jumped back to images | 03:39 |
| tobis87 | sorry? | 03:40 |
| tobis87 | if you a certaint abou the filename, you could also just do rm filename | 03:40 |
| n900uk | cd MyDocs/DCIMn/bin/sh: cd: can't cd to MyDocs/DCIMn/home/user/MyDocs/.images # ls | 03:41 |
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| tobis87 | MyDocs/DCIMn/home/user/MyDocs/.images ??? you did just do cd MyDocs/DCIM , right? | 03:42 |
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| n900uk | yes. I taught DCIM should be memory card/slot | 03:43 |
| n900uk | then ls | 03:43 |
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| tobis87 | NO, memory card is on /media/mmc ; /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM or | 03:43 |
| yigal | ls /media/mmc1/DCIM | 03:44 |
| n900uk | no memory card. just internal memory | 03:44 |
| tobis87 | /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM or ~/MyDocs/DCIM is in internal | 03:44 |
| n900uk | ok | 03:44 |
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| tobis87 | n900uk: I don't want to be offensive, but for which criteria did you buyed the n900? | 03:46 |
| n900uk | i typed jus cd MyDocs/DCIM then ls | 03:47 |
| tobis87 | and, is there threre the picture you can't delete? | 03:47 |
| n900uk | criteria in what sense. dint quite catch that. or do u mean what pourpose? | 03:48 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: | 03:48 |
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| tobis87 | n900uk: You wanted a new phone, why did you choose the n900? Do, you know that the n900 wasn't designed as a phone? | 03:49 |
| n900uk | no the picture is not there. | 03:49 |
| n900uk | yes | 03:49 |
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| lcuk | n900uk, | 03:49 |
| lcuk | if oyu have usb plugged in | 03:50 |
| tobis87 | Do you use linux on your pc? | 03:50 |
| n900uk | I taught i could learn a thing or two | 03:50 |
| lcuk | and have connected it to computer to view files | 03:50 |
| lcuk | then its not visible | 03:50 |
| lcuk | from shell | 03:50 |
| lcuk | so disconnect usb lead to be sure | 03:50 |
| lcuk | then retry | 03:50 |
| * lcuk has tripped over that a few times | 03:50 | |
| n900uk | never connected to my pc | 03:51 |
| lcuk | bah | 03:51 |
| lcuk | do the pictures come up in the picture viewer? | 03:51 |
| tobis87 | I don't mind learning, but there is man on linux... you could have checked all this what i have typed for you... man ls | 03:51 |
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| tobis87 | man rm | 03:51 |
| lcuk | tobis87, man isnt included on device | 03:52 |
| lcuk | and everyone started somewhere | 03:52 |
| tobis87 | but on you pc, it is... | 03:52 |
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| lcuk | not if you have windows its not | 03:52 |
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| n900uk | ok | 03:53 |
| lcuk | so, n900uk do the pictures correctly show up in the UI picture viewer? | 03:53 |
| tobis87 | lcuk: I have a high tolerance, but at some point it is too much... Sorry, but I really need to get some sleep- | 03:53 |
| n900uk | okay. you been very helpful. | 03:53 |
| lcuk | n900uk, if all you want to do is delete a picture, step away from the console | 03:54 |
| lcuk | view the picture in the picture viewer app | 03:54 |
| lcuk | and select delete.. | 03:54 |
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| lcuk | or am I missing some context here.. | 03:54 |
| tobis87 | i do like, to help people... but serious all this ls stuff, it's not that hard if you get used to it :) | 03:54 |
| FIQ | i think it failed due to read-only iirc, came in the middle of this | 03:54 |
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| lcuk | tobis87, then learn how to help people, sometimes diving into the console isn't the correct method. | 03:55 |
| FIQ | b | 03:55 |
| FIQ | (02:08:14) (tobis87) MNZ: (01:15:44) n900uk: i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file | 03:55 |
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| FIQ | -b | 03:55 |
| lcuk | ta | 03:55 |
| n900uk | picture will not delete. but i dont understand why it will not list the camera folder | 03:56 |
| lcuk | n900uk, ok, and you cannot make new images with the camer either? | 03:56 |
| MNZ | lcuk, tobis87 was only trying to help. n900uk was complaining that the ui doesn't let him delete some files | 03:56 |
| * lcuk nods | 03:56 | |
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| tobis87 | lcuk: well, if hilfdonfm fails, do you recommend a flash? at least people learn from using the shell | 03:56 |
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| lcuk | tobis87, finding out why it fails would be better, but sometimes jumping into console leads to what you found | 03:57 |
| * lcuk always thinks of his mum using device | 03:57 | |
| n900uk | yes camera is not taking pictures again | 03:58 |
| lcuk | and asking same question | 03:58 |
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| tobis87 | he only wants to remove some files, maybe MyDocs vfat just need fsck.vfat | 03:58 |
| lcuk | well going to the console and deleting as root won't change that will it ? :P | 03:58 |
| tobis87 | i did not said him, he should be root, he knew gainroot already... and rm -r was told him by someone else | 03:59 |
| lcuk | has n900uk already pasted "mount" output | 03:59 |
| lcuk | that doesnt need root :P | 03:59 |
| lcuk | eep! | 04:00 |
| lcuk | -r for deleting a single photo | 04:00 |
| * lcuk gulps | 04:00 | |
| tobis87 | lcuk: (02:15:05) tobis87: n900uk: btw, you don't need to be root (sudo gainroot), how can't you do ls, while being root? :) Which kernel do you u | 04:01 |
| tobis87 | lcuk: (02:21:50) yigal: or if folder, rm -r foldername | 04:01 |
| * lcuk hides | 04:02 | |
| yigal | don't use the console if you don't know what you are doing. | 04:02 |
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| yigal | sudo rm -rf /, lmao | 04:03 |
| tobis87 | learning, the shell is a good thing... but nobody should learn dangour command, if you don't know what they do | 04:03 |
| tobis87 | dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/whatever | 04:03 |
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| n900uk | is this irrivasible | 04:04 |
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| tobis87 | no | 04:05 |
| yigal | my thought is has he tried creating a file in ~/MyDocs perhaps the partition is in ro mode | 04:05 |
| FIQ|n900 | why would it be | 04:05 |
| n900uk | so i cannot use the camer again and also delete files | 04:06 |
| lcuk | pastebin the output of the "mount" command | 04:06 |
| lcuk | and we would know | 04:06 |
| FIQ|n900 | www.pastebin.com there | 04:06 |
| lcuk | then we could perhaps find a way round it for you :) | 04:06 |
| yigal | we'll find a way now or some later dat | 04:07 |
| tobis87 | do as i write,,, mount > pastebin.com; umount /home/user/MyDocs: fsck.vfat -a /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 04:07 |
| yigal | oops s/dat/day | 04:07 |
| n900uk | okay | 04:07 |
| lcuk | no | 04:07 |
| lcuk | tobis87, no | 04:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | would redirecting to a site actually work | 04:08 |
| lcuk | thats not the point | 04:08 |
| tobis87 | as root, but be carefull. no mistyping... and please do spaces, as i don.... wait; lcuk: why not? | 04:08 |
| lcuk | its whats done after | 04:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | yeah | 04:08 |
| FIQ|n900 | but still | 04:08 |
| lcuk | tobis87, you do not go in blind | 04:08 |
| lcuk | if the FS is readonly theres a reason for it, sure afterwards maybe fixing it is inevitable | 04:08 |
| lcuk | but ffs, this is someones data | 04:09 |
| zeltak | goodnight guys..anyone using the snes emulator by any chance? | 04:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | not atm, but i have it installed and have used it | 04:09 |
| *** epx900 has quit IRC | 04:10 | |
| lcuk | n900uk, just run the mount command and copy/paste the text it shows into a new pastebin.com window | 04:10 |
| n900uk | ok | 04:10 |
| zeltak | FIQ|n900: did it run well...it reboots my system every few minutes | 04:10 |
| zeltak | and it happens in different roms so its not the rom | 04:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | note that the shortcut ctrl+c (if that's what you use) will not work in terminal (special meaning), you'll have to do it from meu | 04:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | zeltak, m64p does that for me if i turn it on sometimes | 04:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | but not drnoksnes | 04:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | menu* | 04:11 |
| MNZ | yigal, have you got fcam working? I just installed it and rebooted and all I get is a grey screen and default cam not working :/ | 04:11 |
| lcuk | MNZ, default kernel. | 04:12 |
| zeltak | FIQ|n900: what is m6ep? | 04:12 |
| MNZ | lcuk, it doesn't work on the default kernel? | 04:12 |
| zeltak | i wonder why its happening..is there a log somwhere? | 04:12 |
| FIQ|n900 | mupen64plus | 04:12 |
| FIQ|n900 | :p | 04:12 |
| lcuk | MNZ, it does work there | 04:12 |
| lcuk | I believe if you are on a different kernel it doesn't run | 04:12 |
| MNZ | I have the default kernel (so far) | 04:12 |
| lcuk | ok | 04:12 |
| lcuk | then, idk | 04:13 |
| FIQ|n900 | zeltak, dunno sorry | 04:13 |
| zeltak | kk thx FIQ|n900 | 04:13 |
| luke-jr | someone should test my fcam kernel | 04:13 |
| luke-jr | theoretically, it has all the fcam modifications in the main kernel | 04:14 |
| FIQ|n900 | I like the fact that my first N900 did come with PR1.0.1, then i managed to broke it, and they sent a new one, with PR1.0 | 04:15 |
| FIQ|n900 | a lots of things looked strange. :P | 04:15 |
| yigal | MNZ ya it's working nicely, but I don't know why it's wrking as opposed to not working? I'm using power kernel also | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | lol | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | yigal: does the normal Camera app work when you have fcam modules loaded? | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | or do you need to disable fcam and reboot? | 04:16 |
| MNZ | did they break compatibility with the default kernel or what? | 04:16 |
| FIQ|n900 | application menu was just buttons, strange bash icon, no imei check with *#06#, no support for my sim card | 04:16 |
| FIQ|n900 | s/bash/xterm/ | 04:16 |
| infobot | FIQ|n900 meant: application menu was just buttons, strange xterm icon, no imei check with *#06#, no support for my sim card | 04:16 |
| zeltak | btw anyonw knoqa if there a c64 emulator? | 04:16 |
| luke-jr | zeltak: pretty sure | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | yuo can search the app db by typing | 04:17 |
| MNZ | [ 1106.085601] adp1653 2-0030: failed writing fault register | 04:17 |
| MNZ | [ 1106.086822] video4linux video0: can't power up slaves | 04:17 |
| * FIQ|n900 does an apt-cache search commodore | 04:17 | |
| luke-jr | 'emulator' should do the trick | 04:17 |
| zeltak | kk thx | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | FIQ|n900: aptitude search emulator | 04:17 |
| FIQ|n900 | aptitude? | 04:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | heard of it | 04:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | never used | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | it's what Debian uses | 04:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | merge of apt-*? | 04:18 |
| yigal | luke-jr I don't think so | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | FIQ|n900: and fixes a bunch of bugs | 04:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | ah | 04:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | nice | 04:18 |
| MNZ | FIQ|n900, it's another frontend to dpkg | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | FIQ|n900: specifically, if you remove something, it automatically removes dependencies it pulled in | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | if they're not needed | 04:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | but it still uses dpkg and such things as bavkend. no? | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | whereas apt would clutter the OS | 04:18 |
| FIQ|n900 | backend* | 04:18 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 04:19 |
| FIQ|n900 | ok | 04:19 |
| luke-jr | technically, there's a ncurses TUI builtin too, but I never use that | 04:19 |
| FIQ|n900 | well, i will take a look at it. :P | 04:19 |
| luke-jr | be careful though ☺ | 04:19 |
| MohammadAG | uh | 04:19 |
| luke-jr | some people have had problems crop up when they switch from apt to aptitude | 04:19 |
| MohammadAG | apt-get autoremove removes dependencies | 04:19 |
| luke-jr | specifically, aptitude thought they didn't want packages, so it removed them :P | 04:20 |
| MohammadAG | aptitude isn't really stable on the N900 | 04:20 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: must be something new | 04:20 |
| FIQ|n900 | yeah, runs that sometimes | 04:20 |
| luke-jr | aptitude is stable enough w/o the TUI | 04:20 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, no, very old. | 04:20 |
| MohammadAG | segfautls for me after I reflashed | 04:20 |
| MohammadAG | and I'm the damn maintainer | 04:20 |
| MNZ | all that is just front ends to the dpkg system | 04:20 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: if you use it the same way as apt? | 04:20 |
| MohammadAG | then I'd use apt | 04:20 |
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| MohammadAG | I only packaged it as a test | 04:21 |
| luke-jr | easier to use aptitude, no need to guess which apt-* command :p | 04:21 |
| yigal | ubuntu is considering removing aptitude from base install, terrible | 04:21 |
| yigal | or has done so haven't kept up | 04:21 |
| FIQ|n900 | yeah, that annoys me, but using them makes you learn then. :p | 04:21 |
| luke-jr | yigal: Ubuntu is run by idiots though | 04:22 |
| FIQ|n900 | @ luke-jr | 04:22 |
| luke-jr | FIQ|n900: I still prefer aptitude | 04:22 |
| MohammadAG | Debian doesn't run on my PC | 04:22 |
| MohammadAG | missing modules | 04:22 |
| n900uk | http://pastebin.com/e14PqavP | 04:22 |
| FIQ|n900 | but i still manages to write apt-get search many times... | 04:22 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: how is that even possible? | 04:22 |
| MohammadAG | not sure, it can't find my HDD and my optical drives | 04:22 |
| luke-jr | wtf | 04:23 |
| FIQ|n900 | strange | 04:23 |
| MohammadAG | during installation | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: Debian stable or oldstable⁇ | 04:23 |
| MohammadAG | lenny | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | weird | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | but then again, I kinda only use Debian on remote servers | 04:23 |
| FIQ|n900 | btw, does aptitude makes fast switches possible? | 04:23 |
| FIQ|n900 | as in | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | which tend to be more Linux-friendly | 04:23 |
| FIQ|n900 | doing more than one thing a time | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | FIQ|n900: I don't think so | 04:24 |
| MNZ | MohammadAG, lenny should be considered outdated now. Give squeeze a shot | 04:24 |
| FIQ|n900 | aw | 04:24 |
| luke-jr | honestly, I just use Debian as OpenVZ host, and put Gentoo in my VEs | 04:24 |
| yigal | luke-jr trudat, but I need to use it as my laptop has gma 500 gpu and a multitouch screen, Ub. is the only distro. that kind of works, it's a shame I like Archlinux personally | 04:24 |
| FIQ|n900 | pacman -Syu ftw | 04:24 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: nonsense | 04:24 |
| luke-jr | yigal: so don't buy crappy hardware | 04:24 |
| MohammadAG | I'd take debian over ubuntu any day, but ubuntu is my only choice | 04:24 |
| yigal | luke-jr trudat hindsight being 20/20 and all | 04:25 |
| MNZ | MohammadAG, which is why you should use squeeze. Squeeze is still debian, yet it's uptodate | 04:25 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: and not stable | 04:25 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, debian like to move slowly, so by ubuntu's standards lenny is outdated | 04:25 |
| luke-jr | Ubuntu's standards are meaningless | 04:25 |
| FIQ|n900 | uh | 04:25 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, I've been using it for over 4 or 5 months, stable as should be | 04:26 |
| FIQ|n900 | is debian stable even MORE off date than ubuntu..? | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | I mean cmon, they ship GNOME | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | as their default DE | 04:26 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, so does debian.... | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | no | 04:26 |
| yigal | luke-jr shouldn't have purchased n900 with PowerVR gpu | 04:26 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, well look at it this way, ubuntu stable or debian unstable? | 04:27 |
| * FIQ|n900 has used Kubuntu before, worked fine until i buyed a new laptop which wlan was a no-go at (no idea why), but atm i just run windows for a while | 04:27 | |
| * lcuk thinks an abacus with printed application cards isn't open source enough for luke-jr | 04:27 | |
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| FIQ|n900 | did several tries to make an archlinux liveUSB, ended up giving up | 04:28 |
| FIQ|n900 | (no other dist worked eihter) | 04:28 |
| FIQ|n900 | but when i used kubuntu i used it as i used windows, N900 was the device that got me introduced 'for real' at linux and shell | 04:30 |
| yigal | Arch works on my laptop just no multitouch or graphics acceleration it's just bad enough I can't use it to get work done | 04:30 |
| yigal | n900 glad you got turned on to oss | 04:30 |
| tobis87 | n900uk: please only do "mount" and post the results on pastebin.com | 04:31 |
| * MNZ is a slackware user turned to debian | 04:31 | |
| FIQ|n900 | anyway | 04:31 |
| FIQ|n900 | have to sleep | 04:31 |
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| MNZ | good night | 04:31 |
| FIQ|n900 | good night | 04:32 |
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| yigal | I think tha | 04:32 |
| FIQ|n900 | £away afk | 04:32 |
| yigal | ts debatable but sleep well | 04:32 |
| FIQ|n900 | screw my typo skills | 04:32 |
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| FIQ|n900 | amyway, afk | 04:32 |
| yigal | feel that | 04:32 |
| yigal | is amy way hot? | 04:32 |
| yigal | owell I can't type fast enough on n900 to make many mistakes | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil1 | I'm up to around 30wpm | 04:34 |
| luke-jr | yigal: I didn't. | 04:35 |
| yigal | appropriate name then | 04:35 |
| tobis87 | lcuk: i really need sleep _now_, could you pickup n900uk, as i leave. thanks... | 04:35 |
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| yigal | how much does he weigh? | 04:35 |
| * lcuk was wondering the same | 04:35 | |
| yigal | could be demanding | 04:35 |
| lcuk | yeah and I am already weakened | 04:36 |
| MNZ | pebcac is pretty heavy | 04:36 |
| SpeedEvil1 | n900 is lighter than a feather, meego is heavier than mountains. Or something. | 04:36 |
| yigal | it's almlost week end for me | 04:36 |
| * lcuk is resting after a meal | 04:36 | |
| yigal | sounds good bout to eat, just finished baking bread | 04:37 |
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| lcuk | nice yigal | 04:37 |
| lcuk | do you have a machine to do it, or proper oven? | 04:37 |
| yigal | i have an oven made banana bread this morning | 04:38 |
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| yigal | going crazy with the baking | 04:39 |
| lcuk | house always smells lovely when tracy does baking | 04:39 |
| yigal | gonna make french bread on Sunday, lcuk man I love that smell | 04:40 |
| lcuk | :) | 04:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to fix my bread machine. | 04:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I hate the fact I have a nice programmable bread machine in perfect working order, and I can't get a replacement pan. | 04:40 |
| yigal | aluminum foil? | 04:41 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, why can't you contact manufacturer? | 04:42 |
| lcuk | most places keep replacement parts around for years? | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Where years = 3-4 | 04:42 |
| lcuk | btw, did I post this in the right forum: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61269 | 04:43 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, try anyway | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I did | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | they don't. | 04:43 |
| lcuk | ok, ebay | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Ebay doesn't have it. | 04:43 |
| lcuk | that sux | 04:43 |
| luke-jr | what happened to your old one? | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | yup. | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | I dropped a teaspoon in it. | 04:43 |
| luke-jr | … | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Then diddn't notice and ran it through a bake cycle. | 04:44 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, that thread I just posted, read it :p | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | This somewhat damaged the non-stick coating | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I was using it like that, it was mostly OK if oiled, but I lost the paddle. | 04:44 |
| luke-jr | meh | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | It was a nice one - programmable times, multiple programs, ... | 04:44 |
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| lcuk | did it have a bacon rack? | 04:45 |
| yigal | is the pan where the bread comes out or something else - I'm old skool so I don't know these new fangled contraptions well? | 04:45 |
| lcuk | the ideal bread oven: would prepare the bacon too. mmmmmm | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | yigal: It is a non-stick mould 12*20*22cm deep or so. | 04:48 |
| zeltak | anyone mounting nfs/samba drives on the n900? if not what do you use to transfer file from server/pc to n900? | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | yigal: Into the bottom of this a paddle. | 04:48 |
| yigal | this is the baking with Maemo channel zeltak wrong channel | 04:48 |
| yigal | SpeedEvil hmm | 04:49 |
| zeltak | yigal: :) | 04:49 |
| lcuk | zeltak, I have only ever tried it the other way round | 04:50 |
| MNZ | zeltak, you get a sack of flour, then you install openssh-server and use sftp://root@yourn900'sIP | 04:50 |
| yigal | ;) | 04:50 |
| lcuk | I have never seen my n900 show up on network on big pc | 04:50 |
| lcuk | but I have connected to the shares from my windows pc | 04:50 |
| lcuk | MNZ is right ;) | 04:50 |
| zeltak | yeah i use ssh but i find it really slow :( | 04:50 |
| lcuk | then plugin via usb and copy to the MyDocs? | 04:51 |
| lcuk | or get usbnetworking setup also | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | yigal: this means that you can take a big tub of flour, dump in the right ingredients into the breadmaker, and get bread in 1-3h (depending on the sort of bread) with 60s effort. | 04:51 |
| zeltak | yeah i do that as well..just thought maybe nfs/samba would be better but thx guys | 04:51 |
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| lcuk | would samba nbe encrypted? | 04:51 |
| lcuk | -n | 04:51 |
| zeltak | btw the usb thing works like 50%...kinda unriable (at least on linux) | 04:52 |
| lcuk | ie, could it theoretically be faster | 04:52 |
| yigal | SpeedEvil I knew what it did just not exactly what it took to do it | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | NFS | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | yigal: Ah | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | yigal: This is the cheap sort. The better sort have the paddle from the top. | 04:52 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, its the ubuntu of linuxes ;) | 04:52 |
| yigal | ah | 04:52 |
| MNZ | zeltak, usb is as fast as you can get. I do about 30mb/s copying files | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | yigal: The cheap sort the bearing goes unless you lube it. | 04:52 |
| lcuk | yigal, is used to the console method of breadmaking :D | 04:53 |
| zeltak | MNZ: yeah i know i meant about 50% of the time i try to connect with usb i get a "can connect" error until i reboot the n900 | 04:53 |
| zeltak | dunno why really | 04:53 |
| yigal | ./configure rise bake | 04:53 |
| lcuk | :D | 04:53 |
| lcuk | zeltak, hmm | 04:54 |
| MNZ | zeltak, well sorry never seen this.. but have you installed a different kernel or packages from extras-devel? | 04:54 |
| zeltak | well not a kernel but i have some packages from extras-devel | 04:54 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I'd be surprised if CPU was a bottleneck with SFTP | 04:55 |
| luke-jr | more like wifi | 04:56 |
| MNZ | luke-jr, wifii should theoretically do about 6mb/s max | 04:56 |
| MNZ | I achieve about 0.7-1mb/s | 04:56 |
| MNZ | I mean on sftp | 04:57 |
| yigal | MNZ ya pretty slow | 04:57 |
| luke-jr | MNZ: assuming no verification/checksum, headers, or other users | 04:57 |
| luke-jr | and perfect signal | 04:57 |
| zash | tarpipe! | 04:58 |
| yigal | night all food has made me sleepy | 04:58 |
| MNZ | night | 04:58 |
| luke-jr | zash: and then re-copy when MD5 fails? | 04:58 |
| zeltak | yigal: night | 04:58 |
| MNZ | well, no other users yes, and perfect signal yes (the AP is 2 meters away, with line of sight!). The overheads should cost 5 times as much as the payload right? | 04:58 |
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| luke-jr | line of sight is not always the deciding factor for wifi | 04:59 |
| MNZ | s/should/shouldn't/ | 04:59 |
| infobot | MNZ meant: well, no other users yes, and perfect signal yes (the AP is 2 meters away, with line of sight!). The overheads shouldn't cost 5 times as much as the payload right? | 04:59 |
| luke-jr | in fact, if you're perfectly lined up with the antenna, you'll get no signal ;) | 04:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I get 1.3M/s or so on large scps | 04:59 |
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| zeltak | darn mupen64plus also reboot my machine...wtf...first drsnes... | 05:18 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | morn | 09:11 |
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| Stskeeps | http://dilbert.com/fast | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:15 |
| ieatlint | for shame, that makes light of insider trading | 09:20 |
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| RST38h | Anyone else having problems with Extras*? | 10:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, usually too expensive | 10:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | what sort of problems? | 10:28 |
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| l-fy_ | hello | 10:48 |
| l-fy_ | i'm trying to sync my n900 with ovi | 10:48 |
| l-fy_ | it's there any way? | 10:48 |
| RST38h | New crop of t.m.o members (Join date Apr 2010): http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=800611&postcount=128 | 10:52 |
| RST38h | Looks pretty automated, probably won't pass the Turing test. | 10:53 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:05 |
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| ShadowJK | that was weird | 11:10 |
| ShadowJK | no sound during call until I switched off silent profile | 11:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | haha | 11:42 |
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| l-fy_ | o crap | 11:44 |
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| l-fy_ | wow | 11:54 |
| l-fy_ | nokia rulez | 11:54 |
| swc|666 | l-fy_, explain | 11:55 |
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| swc|666 | s/explain/exrapoate/ | 11:56 |
| infobot | swc|666 meant: l-fy_, exrapoate | 11:56 |
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| swc|666 | s/exrapoate/exrapolate/ | 11:56 |
| swc|666 | ffs | 11:56 |
| l-fy_ | i've just sync my e71 with n900 | 11:57 |
| l-fy_ | in just a push | 11:57 |
| l-fy_ | after seaching for an option for like 2 days | 11:57 |
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| Venemo | hey guys | 11:58 |
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| _trine | extrapolate | 12:02 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, all the more important for me to get it right | 12:19 |
| * lcuk will have to find a way to get over presenting nerves :P | 12:19 | |
| Stskeeps | :nod: wasn't disagreeing with proposal, just presentation of the proposal (was implicating it was a keynote) | 12:19 |
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| N900uk | hello | 12:21 |
| N900uk | I followed the link from the wiki page , hoping to get some help | 12:22 |
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| lcuk | N900uk, gulp, followed what link | 12:24 |
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| N900uk | sorry i was here last night | 12:25 |
| lcuk | indeed, and we asked you to paste something if i remember rightly and you didnt | 12:25 |
| N900uk | yes i did, but I think my result might be wrong, mybe i got the command wrong | 12:26 |
| lcuk | i may have missed it, have you still got the same problem | 12:27 |
| N900uk | yes | 12:27 |
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| lcuk | then can you show me the pastebin you made | 12:28 |
| Venemo | N900uk: what is your issue? | 12:28 |
| N900uk | here is the link http://pastebin.com/e14PqavP | 12:29 |
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| lcuk | N900uk, sigh, you did not do as requested and you will have to speak with the guy who was doing it | 12:30 |
| N900uk | Venemo: i am not able to delet my files anymore because the phone only sees the as read only and the camera no longer works | 12:31 |
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| N900uk | lcuk: okay | 12:31 |
| _trine | its not uNmount its umount | 12:32 |
| Venemo | N900uk: how about a reflash? | 12:32 |
| joga | also there should be a semicolon after MyDocs | 12:32 |
| N900uk | lcuk: did you see the mistake in the command line | 12:33 |
| lcuk | the whole line is a mistake and I said as much last night N900uk | 12:33 |
| N900uk | yes | 12:33 |
| N900uk | venemo: reflash means i loose everything on the phone right | 12:34 |
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| lcuk | the whole line is a mistake and I said as much last night N900uk, and you responded to myself and FIQ who both tried to show you the simplest first step, and still went and did what tobis said | 12:35 |
| lcuk | N900uk, backup your phone, copy all the pictures and things off it and reflash | 12:35 |
| lcuk | it will be your simplest as Venemo suggests | 12:35 |
| Venemo | N900uk: yes | 12:35 |
| lcuk | if your home computer gets screwed you reformat it | 12:35 |
| Venemo | N900uk: of yourse, make a backup to your computer before proceeding | 12:36 |
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| ShadowJK | l-fy_, hehe, I found out how to do that on the first day of owning N900 :) | 12:36 |
| Termana | Lcuk - only if your on windows | 12:36 |
| ShadowJK | migrated my contacts and stuff from E75 | 12:37 |
| Termana | Lcuk - :P | 12:37 |
| lcuk | Termana, nahh I would be the same in linux | 12:37 |
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| * lcuk is nearing that point with ubuntu | 12:37 | |
| lcuk | its being odd since I updated a component from a ppa | 12:37 |
| l-fy_ | well, i'm moving back to e71 | 12:38 |
| lcuk | that took my stable system made it show odd things on boot and lost my logout button on toolbar | 12:38 |
| Venemo | lcuk: can you help me with some weirdness with Maemo's window manager? | 12:40 |
| lcuk | you can ask and we can have a discussion as you know, but I am having coffee | 12:41 |
| ShadowJK | my E75 currently serves as modem :) | 12:41 |
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| l-fy_ | well, e71 it's what i want | 12:41 |
| Venemo | lcuk: my homescreen widgets are fighting against the evil window manager, but they are losing the battle :( | 12:42 |
| lcuk | hmm do explain | 12:42 |
| Venemo | lcuk: the problem is this: by default, controls on a Qt homescreen widget require two clicks to work: one that focuses the widget, and one more that actually does something | 12:43 |
| Venemo | lcuk: for the "official" homescreen loader, the guy fixed this by setting the WM input hint of the widget to 0 | 12:43 |
| Venemo | lcuk: but in this case, the QTextEdit I have doesn't work (it doesn't get any focus) | 12:44 |
| Venemo | lcuk: in this case, if I manually focus it, it never focuses out when I click out of my homescreen widget... | 12:44 |
| lcuk | Venemo, the official stance is that qt widgets shouldnt be allowed to get input like gtk widgets cannot :P | 12:44 |
| Venemo | lcuk: yeah, I know :) | 12:44 |
| lcuk | is this a new change? | 12:44 |
| Venemo | lcuk: I'm sort of breaking the rules | 12:45 |
| lcuk | as in, are you running qwertys tip? | 12:45 |
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| lcuk | oh crap | 12:45 |
| D-Iivil | _o/ | 12:45 |
| lcuk | mohammads tip | 12:45 |
| Venemo | lcuk: what is that? | 12:45 |
| Venemo | D-Iivil: good morning | 12:45 |
| D-Iivil | Does someone know if /usr/bin/personalisation_app is open source? And if so, in what package it comes with? | 12:45 |
| * D-Iivil is trying to figure out if parameters can be passed to that program... | 12:46 | |
| Venemo | D-Iivil: perhaps Stskeeps knows something about it | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's not, but i may be wron | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | g | 12:46 |
| lcuk | Venemo, I meant the SSU that MohammadAG51 is putting together | 12:46 |
| lcuk | have you installed that, or are you still on pr1.2 hildon | 12:47 |
| Venemo | lcuk: yeah, but this is independent from his work | 12:47 |
| D-Iivil | Stskeeps, actually what I want to know is what does that do when theme is changed. | 12:47 |
| Venemo | lcuk: it behaves this way on both PR 1.2 and his desktop | 12:47 |
| D-Iivil | Stskeeps, it does something else than just runs hildon-theme-cacher and restarts hildon-home. | 12:47 |
| lcuk | Venemo, then if this is wanted in a wider scope, it will have to be investigated deeper | 12:48 |
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| lcuk | perhaps you and MohammadAG (speak of the devil!) could walk through the scenario in a gdb session and see whats happening | 12:48 |
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| MohammadAG | lol | 12:49 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: hmm, good idea if MohammadAG is willing :) | 12:49 |
| D-Iivil | Stskeeps, and ofcourse sets desktop backgrounds and propably restarts also hildon-desktop. But there's still something else it does also because even rebooting does not clear all theme "caches", but running the personalisation_app does. | 12:49 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: how hard would this be? is this stuff even managed by Hildon-Desktop? | 12:50 |
| * MohammadAG opens up logs | 12:50 | |
| * lcuk slides a coffee over at MohammadAG | 12:52 | |
| MohammadAG | hildon-home and Qt | 12:53 |
| MohammadAG | with the qt homescreen loader as the duct tape between both :P | 12:54 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: this is not specific to Qt (at least I don't think it is) | 12:54 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: and I don't use the Qt homescreen loader :) | 12:54 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, loading it manually? | 12:54 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: yes! | 12:54 |
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| MohammadAG | hildon-home it is | 12:54 |
| MohammadAG | sec, just checking out the problem with gpgme | 12:56 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: k | 12:56 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: no hurry | 12:57 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, lcuk: hm, I think I have solved it with a clever hack | 12:57 |
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| sniko | Has anyone successfully tried the new fennec alpha? I get a 404 message on the repository.. | 13:04 |
| RST38h | I am not only getting "handler unexpectedly quit" when trying to install fennec alpha, but the Extras* appear to have broken indices too now | 13:05 |
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| MohammadAG | Handler Silently Failed RST38h | 13:06 |
| MohammadAG | want a fix? | 13:06 |
| lcuk | Venemo, everything is solvable with a clever hack | 13:07 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, install and pin it http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/apt_0.7.20.2maemo13.1_0m5latest_armel.deb | 13:07 |
| Venemo | lcuk: yeah... | 13:07 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, you should be able to install apps from the ovi store without vising the ovi store | 13:08 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, the deb is based on a lost source, someone took it off the packages site and I forgot which pc it was on | 13:08 |
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| slonopotamus | lcuk, except clever hacks themselves | 13:14 |
| lcuk | no, those can be cascaded into ub3r hacks | 13:15 |
| lcuk | very rare | 13:15 |
| lcuk | like a double rainbow | 13:15 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 13:15 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: rare like a white raven? | 13:16 |
| lcuk | Venemo, rare like seeing a ninja rare | 13:16 |
| Venemo | lcuk: :D | 13:16 |
| slonopotamus | stuff like that can make kittens exstinguish (i hope i spelled it correctly) | 13:18 |
| slonopotamus | s/s e/s totally e/ | 13:18 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: stuff like that can make kittens totally exstinguish (i hope i spelled it correctly) | 13:18 |
| lcuk | why would kittens need extinguishing? | 13:19 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: anyways, this hack is not clever enough yet | 13:22 |
| Venemo | lcuk: I can still trick it into a state when the issue re-appears in some form | 13:24 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Kinda afraid to replace apt =) | 13:33 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: What is the reason for that silently failed message, anyway? | 13:33 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, hmm i agree here, please dont do that | 13:34 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 13:34 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Ah =) | 13:34 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, you can't install from user/hidden | 13:34 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: You mean, I can even install paid stuff from Ovi store without paying? | 13:34 |
| MohammadAG | trying to do that causes an E: Handler Silently Failed message | 13:34 |
| MohammadAG | no | 13:34 |
| RST38h | Ovi Store is THAT secure? =) | 13:34 |
| MohammadAG | otherwise it would be illegal to post that package :) | 13:35 |
| RST38h | eeek | 13:35 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Not really illegal | 13:35 |
| MohammadAG | it was possible to do that, but the store was taken down for 3 months | 13:35 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: But I certainly how Ovi Store is not THAT porous | 13:35 |
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| RST38h | s/how/hope | 13:35 |
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| MohammadAG | nah | 13:36 |
| psycho_oreos | bahahaha gotta love framebuffer console | 13:36 |
| MohammadAG | there are two ways to install from the ovi store w/o visiting the store | 13:36 |
| MohammadAG | the first would be through HAM, just enable red pill mode | 13:37 |
| MohammadAG | 2nd would be the modified apt package above, with either plain old apt-get or fapman | 13:37 |
| lcuk | the third would be slapping you around the head with a big trout | 13:37 |
| haltdef | lol fapman | 13:39 |
| haltdef | awesome name | 13:39 |
| slonopotamus | 3rd is wget? :) | 13:39 |
| psycho_oreos | red pill mode through HAM has been removed in pr1.2 | 13:40 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, not entirely | 13:40 |
| MohammadAG | found a way to enable it | 13:40 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, got any proof? ;) | 13:40 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG, and 2nd is the _non-modified_ (as in upstream) apt | 13:40 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode | 13:41 |
| MohammadAG | slonopotamus, no, it's the nokia apt, from 44-1 | 13:41 |
| MohammadAG | or was it 51-1 | 13:41 |
| MohammadAG | can't remember | 13:41 |
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| * lcuk ponders whether picturing everyone in elvis suits would make meego conf keynote go easier | 13:43 | |
| MohammadAG | ah, right, it was apt 0.7.20.2maemo12+0m5 | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG | a version which suddenly disappeared from http://maemo.org/packages/view/apt/ :P | 13:44 |
| Duckboot | lcuk: nervous? | 13:44 |
| lcuk | Duckboot, very. | 13:45 |
| lcuk | if i get accepted for this i will need much help | 13:45 |
| Duckboot | lcuk: hehe | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | or beer | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:45 |
| lcuk | both | 13:45 |
| Duckboot | beer always help. | 13:46 |
| lcuk | but i would rather be sober on stage | 13:46 |
| korhojoa_ | sober? stage? whaat? | 13:46 |
| MohammadAG | american idol | 13:47 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 13:47 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, interesting, thanks, the file was not available in PR1.2 but upon creating a new one and adding those two fields it now works | 13:48 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, could've been carried over from PR1.1 | 13:48 |
| MohammadAG | never cleaned ~ | 13:48 |
| BCMM | does anyone have a working environment for compiling for maemo under Gentoo? Are Portage's various scratchbox-related packages any use for this? | 13:49 |
| lcuk | korhojoa_, I posted about a meego summit keynote (ok, talk Stskeeps :P) My Meego Conference keynote: Maemo Community, Standing on the shoulders of giants http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61269 | 13:50 |
| MohammadAG | you could try to install scratchbox and get the rootstrap images manually | 13:50 |
| lcuk | BCMM, potentially, have a read through the SDK instructions for "non-debian systems" | 13:51 |
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| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Starting_Scratchbox_on_non-Debian_based_systems | 13:51 |
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| BCMM | lcuk: sorry, that's just how to start scratchbox, not how to install it | 13:52 |
| lcuk | BCMM, then read the rest and see if you can decipher it | 13:52 |
| lcuk | and if you do, make some notes for the next generation? | 13:53 |
| lcuk | or you in 6 months :P | 13:53 |
| BCMM | i've had a shot at deciphering it, and i think my problem is not properly understanding the components of the SDK | 13:53 |
| korhojoa_ | lcuk: ah, okay | 13:53 |
| BCMM | scratchbox is a general-purpose thing, on which one installs some maemo-specific stuff, right? | 13:53 |
| lcuk | not hte best person, but I believe so | 13:54 |
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| lcuk | the | 13:54 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 13:55 |
| BCMM | see, i'd like to do things "properly" where possible, and an wondering if i can do something like install scratchbox from gentoo them install the maemo-specific stuff on it | 13:55 |
| MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> you could try to install scratchbox and get the rootstrap images manually | 13:55 |
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| MohammadAG | BCMM, scratchbox is just an advanced chroot | 13:55 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: thanks, i actually did miss that the first time | 13:55 |
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| BCMM | confusingly, there is a package for dev-embedded/scratchbox-devkit-maemo3 | 13:56 |
| BCMM | i presume that's an old version of the maemo-specific stuff - maybe i could edit the ebuild to install maemo 5 | 13:56 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: so what is rootstrap? | 13:57 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 13:57 |
| slonopotamus | BCMM, smth related to porn afaik | 13:57 |
| BCMM | one installs scratchbox, giving you a chroot-ish thing, then installs maemo's rootstrap? | 13:57 |
| MohammadAG | yep | 13:58 |
| MohammadAG | sec | 13:58 |
| BCMM | from the name, i presume that's just enough of a system to apt-get the rest? | 13:58 |
| MohammadAG | BCMM, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Manual_Installation | 13:58 |
| MohammadAG | and yes :) | 13:59 |
| BCMM | i think i may have been confused by assuming that their "debian" stuff was actually debian-specific, rather than meaning "and if you try it on other systems, don't blame us" | 13:59 |
| BCMM | oh neat, a list of which bits of scratchbox are needed! | 14:00 |
| BCMM | so the thing you end up with is basically a chroot containing maemo for x86? or maemo for ARM running with processor emulation? | 14:01 |
| MohammadAG | both | 14:02 |
| MohammadAG | if you need both | 14:02 |
| MohammadAG | I have the X86 target deleted on a remote server since it's ssh only | 14:03 |
| BCMM | not sure i understand | 14:03 |
| BCMM | presumably the latter is needed to actually compile stuff for maemo? | 14:03 |
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| MohammadAG | you get two targets, a target is a chroot, the X86 target is for testing stuff since you can bring up the Maemo 5 UI on it | 14:04 |
| MohammadAG | the ARMEL target is to compile packages for the device | 14:04 |
| MohammadAG | which uses qemu to emulate arm | 14:04 |
| BCMM | since it uses a real install of kdrive on hte host anyway, why can't you bring up the UI of the ARM version? | 14:04 |
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| BCMM | performance too low, or i'm missing something? | 14:05 |
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| MohammadAG | not sure, it just doesn't start | 14:05 |
| BCMM | fair enough | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG | I'm sure it's not performance though | 14:05 |
| BCMM | hmm, that's odd | 14:05 |
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| MohammadAG | from the known issues: # | 14:06 |
| MohammadAG | # Armel target does not bring up the UI framework | 14:06 |
| BCMM | thanks a lot and sorry for so many questions; i think i understand the concepts now and i'll read the docs | 14:07 |
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| MNZ | morning fellas | 14:09 |
| MNZ | so I just woke up, ate something, then decided to finally install the kernel I built. Now it starts to boot, does a quick vibration and shows the nokia logo, then restarts :/ | 14:10 |
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| lcuk | mnz, congratulations, you installed the vibrator kernel | 14:11 |
| lcuk | nokia branded apparantly | 14:11 |
| MNZ | sweet, but I'm a guy | 14:11 |
| lcuk | whatever floats your boat | 14:11 |
| MNZ | :| | 14:11 |
| lcuk | IDK, since changing the kernel is one of the more advanced things anything can happen | 14:12 |
| lcuk | didnt your doctor tell you it was a tricky procedure? | 14:12 |
| MNZ | he did. but I thought hey, everyone's doing it | 14:13 |
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| lcuk | not really | 14:13 |
| MNZ | now to bring back the kernel and checking out the logs.... | 14:13 |
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| lcuk | hmm is there really active discussion ongoing in #maemo-hostmode-discussion about usb host mode. if you have an interest, perhaps you could idle there and add your skills and knowledge and some input as required :) | 14:19 |
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| MNZ | more maemo fun | 14:20 |
| BCMM | i'm joining just to watch everyone else from this channel flood it with "is it ready yet?" | 14:21 |
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| jani | but best maemo fun is within few recent days is port of bambuser! | 14:21 |
| lcuk | BCMM, if people are stupid enough to flood with those sorts of questions I am sure DocScrutinizer will get rid quickly | 14:22 |
| BCMM | jani: what's bambuster | 14:22 |
| tobis87 | lcuk: Did the guy from yesterday was able to fix it? I was so tired, I surely would have said something wrong... The guy with the picture he was not able to delete. | 14:22 |
| lcuk | its a serious topic that needs good quality input | 14:22 |
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| lcuk | tobis87, he came back this morning perhaps you can find him and talk | 14:23 |
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| BCMM | lcuk: i wasn't entirely serious... | 14:24 |
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| lcuk | as you see, the doc is :P | 14:24 |
| BCMM | heh | 14:24 |
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| tobis87 | lcuk: He could have flashed it anyway, but I just don't understand how you can try mount > pastebin.com in the shell... Is it not clear that you should do mount and paste the results in pastebin.com? Maybe I expect to much from people, which use linux the first time... | 14:25 |
| BCMM | i was referring to what happens on the forum thread - personally, i've no intention of getting in the way like that | 14:26 |
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| MNZ | tobis87, I was going to tell you to drop it yesterday but frankly I didn't want to turn the user away and also I was wondering how far you can take it :D | 14:27 |
| lcuk | tobis87, you asked him specifically to do it. i have been talking to real users of numerous computer systems for 15 years, never over estimate and find a level with the person you are dealing with - and never take anything for granted | 14:27 |
| tobis87 | well, maybe this is because I grew up with ms-dos, so that the only way to use a pc, was to learn to use the shell... | 14:27 |
| BCMM | tobis87: most people are very scared of the shell | 14:30 |
| BCMM | i've been on the phone to friends and relatives who won't type "ipconfig" into cmd in case they typo and format their disk or something - that's just what a blinking white cursor says to most people | 14:31 |
| lcuk | ++ i have been in similar BCMM | 14:31 |
| tobis87 | yes, but i just don't like to just say flash, flash, flash... if there is another solution for this. nobody likes to have to start from the beginning and if it is messed up anyway, you could at least learn from using the shell. you can still flash it later. | 14:31 |
| BCMM | lcuk: i've also had someone passing by say, with admiration, "wow! you're controlling your computer!" | 14:32 |
| lcuk | tobis87, water under the bridge | 14:32 |
| BCMM | i don't think i was doing anything much cleverer than "ls" at that point that... | 14:32 |
| lcuk | the user needs to paste his "mount" output | 14:32 |
| lcuk | before doing any actions | 14:32 |
| lcuk | just blunty trying to perform gobal partition maintainance before knowing there is a problem can cause damage | 14:33 |
| lcuk | and people WILL try to follow your instructions | 14:33 |
| lcuk | so don't do it | 14:33 |
| lcuk | (the user came back this morning after attempting it | 14:34 |
| BCMM | christ, scratchbox-devkit-doctools comes with an entire texlive distro | 14:34 |
| tobis87 | lcuk: yes, i asked him to do so... but I expect people to not just do whatever they get told... I thought it was clear to not do it in one command. Ok I also learned from it | 14:34 |
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| tobis87 | i will remember this in the future, if i help other... | 14:35 |
| lcuk | who wants coffee | 14:35 |
| jani | check! | 14:36 |
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| tobis87 | BCMM: but why are people scared of the shell, surely because windows tries to be easy and fails badly... if the system wasn't trying to be so easy, people would need to learn how to use a pc. | 14:37 |
| BCMM | tobis87: i'm scared of the windows shell! terribly tab-completion | 14:38 |
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| Venemo | ~seen alterego | 14:41 |
| Venemo | hm, where is infobot? | 14:41 |
| kerio | he's online | 14:41 |
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| tobis87 | BCMM: even worse no cat and grep... i think cat is called type in the windows cmd | 14:42 |
| slonopotamus | ~seen infobot | 14:42 |
| kerio | slonopotamus: lol | 14:42 |
| slonopotamus | kerio, :P | 14:42 |
| kerio | he's not responding to my botsnacks :( | 14:42 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: is infobot dead? | 14:42 |
| * lcuk kicks DocScrutinizer to kick infobot | 14:42 | |
| Venemo | kerio: no, he's not online | 14:43 |
| * slonopotamus once did `locate locate` when `locate <smth>` failed because locate was not found | 14:43 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ibot is alive but hibernating | 14:43 |
| tobis87 | the powershell is not much better, .NET based, but I was amazed that they included some unix alias, like ps for example | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | not much I can do | 14:43 |
| BCMM | every DOS machine i have to use gets an ls.bat | 14:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | here you go | 14:44 |
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| pupnik | people who post comments in phone forums are fucking idiots | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 14:45 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: :) | 14:45 |
| Venemo | thanks DocScrutinizer | 14:45 |
| Venemo | ~seen alterego | 14:45 |
| infobot | alterego is currently on #maemo, last said: 'Depends who's justifying it.'. | 14:45 |
| BCMM | tobis87: well, there is no cat equivalent because their pipes are broken, but you can use type to view a text file | 14:45 |
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| tobis87 | rm -rf / in powershell: "get-psdrive -p "FileSystem" | % {ls -recurse $_.Root | rm –Force } " | 14:45 |
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| tobis87 | :-D | 14:45 |
| BCMM | i am actually laughing i real life and stuff | 14:46 |
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| psycho_oreos | I was told its possible to make n900 keyboard LED flash based on system activity without enabling R&D mode, is there a way to do this? | 14:46 |
| Venemo | ~nuke alterego | 14:47 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at alterego ... B☢☢M! | 14:47 | |
| BCMM | ls, rm and so on - do they constantly use POSIX command names for their own commands? | 14:47 |
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| kerio | their own? | 14:47 |
| kerio | huh? | 14:47 |
| kerio | they use syscalls, don't they | 14:47 |
| BCMM | it sounds potentially very confusing, since i'm sure they don't really take posix syntax | 14:47 |
| BCMM | kerio: was refering to tobis87's powershell example | 14:47 |
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| tobis87 | BCMM: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Cmdlets | 14:48 |
| kerio | i see | 14:48 |
| BCMM | tobis87: is rm the usual command for deletion, or do they have del as well? | 14:48 |
| tobis87 | Remove-Item is the native command | 14:48 |
| BCMM | oh i see, they have names that are familiar to both unix and windows people | 14:49 |
| BCMM | i'd be upset at using a name like "man" if it behaves substantially differently to man | 14:50 |
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| tobis87 | they actually did a test of windows xp; http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&ie=UTF8&langpair=auto|en&u=http://www.linux-user.de/ausgabe/2002/09/085-xp-test/index.html | 14:51 |
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| tobis87 | and the powershell http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2007/78/SHELL-GAMES/%28kategorie%29/0 | 14:53 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, ping | 14:55 |
| MohammadAG | pong | 14:55 |
| RST38h | OMG a managed shell scripting! | 14:55 |
| Dassu | :o | 14:55 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, I bet you're the one who released that knight rider keyboard LED effect on youtube eh? :) | 14:55 |
| RST38h | I mean, managed C and managed C++ has not been enough, so they have now got managed BASH (nothing in common with real BASH of course) | 14:56 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, what gave it away? :P | 14:56 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, I dunno, the youtube handle is somewhat similar? :) | 14:57 |
| MohammadAG | damn, you've blown my cover! | 14:57 |
| psycho_oreos | :p | 14:58 |
| psycho_oreos | o rly? | 14:58 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52239 :p | 14:59 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, thanks :) | 15:00 |
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| Venemo | hm. | 15:05 |
| Venemo | call is glitching when I deploy my app on my N900 during a call... | 15:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | During calls, voice goes through the CPU | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | with a 5ms latency | 15:08 |
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| MNZ | MohammadAG, remember yesterday when you said I can just get the kernel packages and upload to device in case of mess up? I just did that with the kernel package, but what about the modules? | 15:17 |
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| Zucca | Is there a gui gconf tool for Maemo 5? | 15:21 |
| Zucca | My connection settings are messed up. | 15:21 |
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| Venemo | Zucca: I don't think so. But there is a command line gconf tool | 15:25 |
| Zucca | Yeah. That I saw. I was a bit too complex/arcane looking for me. | 15:26 |
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| MohammadAG | ~ping | 15:30 |
| infobot | ~pong | 15:30 |
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| MohammadAG | ~flashing | 15:32 |
| infobot | well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 15:32 |
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| MNZ | MohammadAG, so I have to get the entire firmware :/ I thought you said there was a way... | 15:33 |
| lcuk | hahaha what an awesome sumission on the slashdot firehose | 15:34 |
| lcuk | http://slashdot.org/submission/1319700/CodeWeaver-CEO-is-Employee-of-the-month-175th-time | 15:34 |
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| MohammadAG | MNZ, what? | 15:36 |
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| MohammadAG | MNZ, that wasn't for you, I needed a quick link for flasher | 15:36 |
| MohammadAG | MNZ, kernel-modules | 15:36 |
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| MNZ | MohammadAG, heh sorry. Well yeah how do you install kernel-modules on a bricked device? | 15:36 |
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| MohammadAG | you shouldn't replace stock modules | 15:37 |
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| tobis87 | it depends, fcam-drivers also replace stock modules... oh well not replace them in /lib/modules, but they are loaded in replace | 15:39 |
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| n900_Bricker | hi, deleted advanced kernel by using program manager, now it is not booting (no kernel anymore) | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | tobis87, device boots without them | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | n900_Bricker: ha-ha | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:46 |
| n900_Bricker | which one is fiasco image to use for restore | 15:46 |
| n900_Bricker | flasher_35 installed already | 15:47 |
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| n900_Bricker | Found the follwing info at the wiki... sudo ./flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R | 15:48 |
| n900_Bricker | but what image to use? | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | n900_Bricker: tablets-dev.nokia.com has a n900 one, grab the 2010 one | 15:48 |
| n900_Bricker | there are "emmc" images and others | 15:48 |
| technomike_phone | no | 15:49 |
| technomike_phone | emmc formats the flash memory or something (the 32gb mmc) | 15:49 |
| technomike_phone | the emmc images I mean | 15:49 |
| n900_Bricker | file:///home/tokoloshe/Desktop/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin could be the right one? | 15:50 |
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| MohammadAG | yes | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG | you could try flashing http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/zImage.bin | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG | easier than having to dl a 100+ MB image | 15:52 |
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| technomike_phone | i have installed kernel-power but notice no differences | 15:55 |
| technomike_phone | mohammadag | 15:55 |
| trumee | guys, i just bought a PS3 sixaxis controller to use with N900 although i dont own a PS3. Is it possible to charge the controller using the Nokia N900 charger? | 15:55 |
| technomike_phone | i attempted installing your pulseaudio patch | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | it's not my patch, it's my package, but go on | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | trumee: Does the sixaxis controller take a microUSB connector? | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, no | 15:55 |
| technomike_phone | haha no trumee | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | mini USB | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | trumee: Sounds unlikely | 15:56 |
| technomike_phone | Use a PC | 15:56 |
| technomike_phone | to charge it | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | If it is indeed miniUSB, you might use an adaptor | 15:56 |
| trumee | i dont want to carry a laptop around for charging the controller. | 15:56 |
| MohammadAG | ... | 15:56 |
| trumee | Is the current drawn by the N900 different to the controller? | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Power supplies do not supply current. | 15:57 |
| technomike_phone | trumee - If you connect it to a PC using the miniUSB cable then it will charge. Or purchase a wall socket USB charger. | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | I'd suggest you don't try what you're thinking of | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | If a table can support 300Kg, it does not mean that when you sit on the table you weigh 300Kg. | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | the sixaxis's battery life is a week for me | 15:57 |
| MohammadAG | just charge it overnight | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless you happen to eat all the pies on the table. | 15:57 |
| technomike_phone | haha | 15:57 |
| technomike_phone | MohammedAG | 15:57 |
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| technomike_phone | i got stuck | 15:58 |
| trumee | i do have a USB wall charger for my TomTom. It says Output 5V - 1A | 15:58 |
| technomike_phone | at the bit where you download all.tar.gz | 15:58 |
| technomike_phone | trumee - use that | 15:58 |
| MohammadAG | actually | 15:58 |
| trumee | MohammadAG, SpeedEvil: will the tomtom charger work? | 15:58 |
| technomike_phone | it works. I have done it myself | 15:58 |
| MohammadAG | the all.tar.gz is actually an all.tar | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | trumee: Is it miniusb, and does it firt | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | wrong extension | 15:59 |
| technomike_phone | MohammadAG - that's what I meant sorry | 15:59 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil: yes it is minisub | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | technomike_phone, not your fault I named it wrong | 15:59 |
| technomike_phone | ah | 15:59 |
| technomike_phone | so rename it then try | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, try it, though iirc, the sixaxis doesn't charge unless its driver is installed | 16:00 |
| trumee | technomike_phone: nope, it doesnt charge :( | 16:00 |
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| technomike_phone | I am looking forward to having stable audio output | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | dumb charger | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | use a PC | 16:00 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: the leds dont glow at all | 16:00 |
| technomike_phone | Yeah | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | I know | 16:00 |
| technomike_phone | use a pc | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | it doesn't charge from dumb sources | 16:00 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, you are such a grouchy bastard. | 16:01 |
| lcuk | :p | 16:01 |
| trumee | i need a crash course on charging. What does very fast blinking red led and slow blinking led mean? and how do i know when it is fully charged? | 16:01 |
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| mirf | it's green when fully charged | 16:01 |
| lcuk | trumee, potentially listed on the maemo wiki | 16:02 |
| mirf | solid | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | fast blinking means connecting, slow blinking = charging | 16:02 |
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| MohammadAG | mirf, sixaxis, not N900 | 16:02 |
| mirf | charging is usually blinking orange iirc | 16:02 |
| lcuk | green == fully done | 16:02 |
| mirf | oooohhhh | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | sixaxis people | 16:02 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: and how do i turn the controller off? | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | hold PS button | 16:02 |
| technomike_phone | why doesn't rename all.tar.gz all.tar command work | 16:02 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am, yes, indeed | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | technomike_phone, no rename command on linux | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | mv renames | 16:02 |
| trumee | when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit if off? | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 16:03 |
| trumee | *is | 16:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, I know that xchat should work | 16:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But, OTOH, you probably won't argue that the proposed scenario is the most likely one | 16:03 |
| lcuk | but is the handheld qt version of fbreader ready? | 16:03 |
| technomike_phone | mohammadag - thanks | 16:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No idea | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | technomike_phone, tar ignore extension anyways | 16:03 |
| Zucca | Ha! Gconf-editor is on qole.org repo. \o/ | 16:03 |
| lcuk | i know it should be possible to get native gtk xchat in | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | you have to use the correct parametres | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | tar -xvf | 16:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am currently busy porting my own stuff to Qt | 16:03 |
| lcuk | but will that also need more hacks to get it down to handsized | 16:03 |
| lcuk | that we already did for the hildon branch | 16:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, sure I know | 16:03 |
| technomike_phone | right | 16:03 |
| trumee | mirf: when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit is off? | 16:04 |
| lcuk | but those 2 are community apps you have yourself looked over | 16:04 |
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| technomike_phone | its done. but what command is used now. | 16:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I will get to them when I have the Meego device and time. | 16:04 |
| lcuk | and RST38h you are rebuilding your entire code in qt? | 16:04 |
| lcuk | or just wrapping it | 16:04 |
| mirf | I don't know anythign about sixaxis | 16:04 |
| trumee | mirf: k :) | 16:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am porting EMULib to Qt. Once it is done, my stuff should work without changes | 16:04 |
| lcuk | reasonable enough | 16:05 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: all leds off means that the unit is off? | 16:05 |
| lcuk | and you will be able to get rid of many of the abstractions you currently worry about | 16:05 |
| lcuk | individually | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | <trumee> when the leds are all off, does it mean that the unit if off? | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> yes | 16:05 |
| lcuk | by just using the qt api itself | 16:05 |
| tobis87 | N900uk has posted this pastebin, http://pastebin.com/5YUFs6wd the MyDocs is mounted rw, but he can't create a file "touch test"... | 16:05 |
| * lcuk does understand the positive side of qt | 16:05 | |
| trumee | MohammadAG: sorry missed that. | 16:05 |
| * RST38h does not understand positive sides: qt is just another toolkit | 16:06 | |
| RST38h | Seen many of 'em during the last decade. | 16:06 |
| * lcuk nods | 16:06 | |
| lcuk | but isnt qt the one that will let you run same code on all various OSes | 16:06 |
| tobis87 | lcuk: is it safe, if i tell him to fsck the partiton? | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Qt build tools are apparently half-baked, as for the rest, it is standard | 16:06 |
| lcuk | tobis87, has he backed up stuff first just in case ;) readonly is better than not at all | 16:07 |
| RST38h | Probably leads to a lot of memory leaks, as it is often unclear who is supposed to delete Qt objects. | 16:07 |
| tobis87 | lcuk: ok | 16:07 |
| lcuk | RST38h, yeah | 16:07 |
| lcuk | did you get a prototype working? | 16:07 |
| RST38h | what prototype? | 16:08 |
| lcuk | and should it also be buildable on the netbook image? | 16:08 |
| lcuk | of your porting to see if its fast enough | 16:08 |
| trumee | do default keys of DrNokSnes work well with sixaxis or do i need to map them? | 16:09 |
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| MNZ | So quick question, why should we not replace the kernel modules on the n900? | 16:11 |
| derf | RST38h: But this toolkit will Save The World! | 16:11 |
| derf | Or something. | 16:11 |
| lcuk | and the cheerleader! | 16:11 |
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| trumee | also, is it recommended to OC for playing with sixaxis and DrNokSNes? | 16:11 |
| technomike_phone | hahaha | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | You should always overclock to at least 1.7GHz. | 16:12 |
| kerio | ~omap-oc | 16:12 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that! | 16:12 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil: :) | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | But - seriously - overclocking is generally bad on the hardware. | 16:12 |
| technomike_phone | LOL trumee. Its not recommended to OC *at all* | 16:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Not interested in netbooks | 16:13 |
| trumee | technomike_phone: hmm. i am presently running a stock kernel. | 16:13 |
| technomike_phone | hahahaahaha | 16:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: In fact, not interested in meego unless it powers a mobile device | 16:13 |
| lcuk | RST38h, but with nice free building there (if it works) why would you negate it? | 16:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Got an Ubuntu. | 16:14 |
| lcuk | does your stuff work there? | 16:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Nice free hassle-free building on Ubuntu | 16:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yes, why not? | 16:14 |
| lcuk | is that written in qt? | 16:14 |
| RST38h | yes, qt stuff runs on ubuntu | 16:15 |
| lcuk | your stuff is already in qt? | 16:15 |
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| RST38h | "my stuff" is in C. | 16:15 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, is anything you engage on Maemo/MeeGo-related these days tempered with anything but extreme "Go team!" sentimentality? | 16:15 |
| RST38h | it runs everywhere | 16:15 |
| lcuk | GAN900, it most likely is | 16:16 |
| technomike_phone | RST38h - same here. not interested in meego on other devices except mobiles | 16:16 |
| RST38h | and, mind you, it does not necessarily have to be Meego | 16:16 |
| RST38h | Maemo has been ok, as far as I am concerned | 16:17 |
| lcuk | RST38h, what prevents the push for meego handset with you? if its just another target why not? | 16:18 |
| lcuk | or is it issue with closed dependencies? | 16:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: there is no hardware with the usable meego handset installation | 16:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: once I get such hardware, I will work directly with it | 16:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: right now, I am targeting Maemo5 with Qt 4.6 | 16:19 |
| lcuk | so a pure qt open source build or keeping the closed backend? | 16:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: <parsing error> | 16:20 |
| lcuk | is it full qt and will go through the autobuilder or will it have closed source blobs still | 16:20 |
| lcuk | errr OBS | 16:21 |
| RST38h | ah, it will be a binary package | 16:21 |
| RST38h | locally built. | 16:21 |
| lcuk | *nod* | 16:22 |
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| mikhas | wow, "RST38h: ... Maemo has been ok, as far as I am concerned" - that I would live to read that! ;-) | 16:26 |
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| mikhas | note to self: how to convince pessimist: come up with something worse | 16:26 |
| lcuk | heh good morning mikhas | 16:27 |
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| lcuk | how is miniature going? | 16:27 |
| mikhas | badly | 16:27 |
| Venemo | alterego: ping | 16:27 |
| lcuk | bah | 16:27 |
| lcuk | whats blocking or is it just time busy doing other stuff atm? | 16:28 |
| mikhas | yeah, no free brain capacity to do the things I need to do | 16:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | cd ~/mikhas;rm -r Perfect\ Treehouse | 16:30 |
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| RST38h | mikhas: Maemo is not particularly bad, just not properly maintained | 16:30 |
| mikhas | hey! now I have to start over again! | 16:30 |
| RST38h | mikhas: You want bad, check out Redhat (*not* Meego, the real one) | 16:30 |
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| n900_bricker | how long does it take for flashing kernel only...waiting for some minutes... | 16:31 |
| RST38h | Or Gentoo. Or Slackware. | 16:31 |
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| MNZ | RST38h, slackware is very properly maintained, tyvm. | 16:35 |
| RST38h | eek | 16:35 |
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| * SpeedEvil uses slackware. | 16:42 | |
| SpeedEvil | It 'just works' for me. | 16:42 |
| derf | I won't say Gentoo "just works", but no distribution I've ever used has. | 16:45 |
| derf | The nice feature of Gentoo is that I can actually fix everything that's broken without too much effort. | 16:46 |
| sulx | like arch | 16:46 |
| RST38h | FreeBSD is even better at that, as it does not get broken that often ;) | 16:46 |
| derf | Yes, unfortunately that means you're running FreeBSD, though. | 16:46 |
| RST38h | As long as it makes things work, I see no problem there | 16:48 |
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| mick_laptop | hi everyone, i'm trying to run the simulator but I honestly can't figure it out. I have it installed and I just ran simulator.app | 16:50 |
| mick_laptop | it just gives me all the options - i don't see how i can just turn it on | 16:51 |
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| GAN900 | n900_bricker, just a few seconds. | 16:53 |
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| kerio | slackware lacks a true package manager :| | 16:55 |
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| mick_laptop | kerio: that is the point of slackware | 16:58 |
| kerio | apt <3 | 16:58 |
| mick_laptop | http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/Getting_started/Step_3_Test.xhtml <--- i want to get to this step | 16:58 |
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| Zucca | Anyone have any good explanation why my N900 asks confirmation for "roaming data" every time, even if I'm in my own country... | 17:01 |
| mick_laptop | this is what i get instead: http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4880/qthatesm.png | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | settingsinternet 'always ask' ? | 17:02 |
| mick_laptop | none of the examples even build for me | 17:04 |
| Zucca | DocScrutinizer51: Connect automatically. Of course it won't ask it if there's awailable wlan. | 17:04 |
| Zucca | This has been bugging me singe the day I bought N900. | 17:05 |
| Zucca | *since | 17:05 |
| mick_laptop | all i really wanted was to try maemo :) and bring up a browser so i can target mobile devices better :) | 17:05 |
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| n900uk | lcuk: could let tobis87 know that everything seems to be fine now | 17:05 |
| kerio | mick_laptop: targeting mobile devices isn't easy | 17:05 |
| kerio | you have to consider the interface, the form factor, | 17:05 |
| kerio | it's not just a matter of emulating the OS in a window | 17:06 |
| n900uk | lcuk: but i will still hang around. he requested i give him an hour. files are now ok | 17:06 |
| mick_laptop | kerio: actually if you read what i said - i just want a *browser* | 17:07 |
| mick_laptop | i know what I'm doing (as far as what I want to achieve) | 17:08 |
| mick_laptop | i just want the simulator to not suck | 17:08 |
| mick_laptop | :) | 17:08 |
| mick_laptop | this is what I keep getting when the examples don't compile and crash simulator.app "Could not create display memory. Retrying..." | 17:08 |
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| mick_laptop | w/ anroid you install the package target, create an avd and then start the emulator - done | 17:18 |
| mick_laptop | android* | 17:18 |
| n900uk | lcuk: not for very long. seems to be re-occurring again | 17:20 |
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| MohammadAG | ~ping | 17:22 |
| infobot | ~pong | 17:22 |
| mick_laptop | does QT Creator need to connect to a specific port to work? | 17:22 |
| mick_laptop | "Waiting for RPC reply to 'setWidgetGeometry'' call timed out | 17:23 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: no, it doesn't need to. what are you doing? | 17:23 |
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| red | can I somehow physicly access the memory card of the n900? | 17:23 |
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| red | my phone is broken and I thought I'd take a try if my card reader could read the micro sd(?) | 17:23 |
| red | all I can see is the slot for the 2nd memory card when I pop the back open | 17:24 |
| mick_laptop | Venemo: i'm trying to create a drupal theme targeting nokia handheld devices. I'm trying to use the simulator. | 17:24 |
| GAN900 | red, it's soldered on. | 17:24 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: huh. the Qt simulator? | 17:25 |
| mick_laptop | i was expecting this: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/Getting_started/Qt_Getting_Started_images/14_simulator_v3.jpg | 17:25 |
| red | gan900: so I can't pry it off? :P | 17:25 |
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| mick_laptop | this is what i get instead: http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4880/qthatesm.png | 17:25 |
| red | got some stuff there I'd really like to get back | 17:25 |
| red | a lot of photos | 17:25 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: the Qt simulator has never ever worked for me | 17:25 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: use the N900 emulator from MADDE or a real device :) | 17:26 |
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| mick_laptop | 1hr download | 17:29 |
| mick_laptop | yikes | 17:29 |
| mick_laptop | :) | 17:29 |
| mick_laptop | Venemo: thanks for that pointer | 17:30 |
| yoyoyo | hey guys, I've gmail setup so that I can send from a bunch of different email addresses - but when I setup gmail in the maemo mail client, it only shows that I can send from the master account - any ideas? | 17:30 |
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| yoyoyo | also, sending mail has an smtp error, I've never been able to send, but receiving works fine.. the forum says to change ...@gmail.com to @google.com in smtp settings, but that didn't fix it | 17:33 |
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| tobis87 | damn, thunder-storm... made my lcd flash, n900uk have you done the backup? | 17:34 |
| red | yoyoyo: no workaround for that | 17:34 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: if you use Nokia Qt SDK, you already have MADDE :P | 17:35 |
| red | the multiple stuff that is | 17:35 |
| red | sending worked fine for me | 17:35 |
| yoyoyo | k fixed that part | 17:36 |
| yoyoyo | red, tell me, so you can select multiple email addresses in "new message" in the maemo client? | 17:36 |
| yoyoyo | did you just add one account? | 17:36 |
| yoyoyo | that is what I did | 17:36 |
| yoyoyo | oh, well are there any clients that can do it? | 17:37 |
| yoyoyo | that is a very important feature, red | 17:38 |
| kerio | the webmail? | 17:38 |
| kerio | microb is a mickass browser after all | 17:39 |
| yoyoyo | I'm talking about gmail's ability to send from various accounts | 17:39 |
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| korhojoa | yoyoyo: what is that function called? | 17:41 |
| korhojoa | can you show me a link to a google document about it? | 17:41 |
| mick_laptop | Venemo: that is what i thought, but where is it? | 17:41 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: for me, C:\NokiaQtSDK\Maemo\4.6.2 | 17:42 |
| mick_laptop | ~/NokiaQtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2 | 17:42 |
| mick_laptop | ok, but how do i start it? | 17:42 |
| Venemo | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54225 | 17:42 |
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| mick_laptop | it looks like a file system stucture | 17:42 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: check out this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54225 | 17:43 |
| mick_laptop | awesome | 17:43 |
| mick_laptop | exactly what i needed | 17:43 |
| mick_laptop | thanks again Venemo | 17:43 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: you're welcome! :) | 17:43 |
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| mick_laptop | ./bin/mad remote -r rx51-fremantle-pr12 poweron - did it for me | 17:45 |
| mick_laptop | now I need to wait a while for qemu | 17:45 |
| mick_laptop | kind of cool that they use qemu | 17:45 |
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| Venemo | mick_laptop: if you have any issues with it, ask on #qt-maemo -> the guys working on Qt for Maemo are there in European working hours | 17:45 |
| Venemo | mick_laptop: they are also very friendly | 17:45 |
| mick_laptop | oh very awersome | 17:45 |
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| knightstalker | Hello,I have a question about if there are any download managers for Maemo,as the Maemo's browsers download manager when the connection is disconnected for few second,will just kill the file :( | 17:46 |
| knightstalker | the download manager I need is not about increasing the speed but,not to lose the downloaded amount | 17:46 |
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| knightstalker | and Idk,but I am a bit unsure about wget,I had a problem which when I closed terminal and used wget again It recovered the data,however,at last,the downloaded thing was corrupted... -.- | 17:47 |
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| yoyoyo | korhojoa http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=22370 | 17:56 |
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| yoyoyo | back | 18:06 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: thanks for explaining scratchbox for me - i'm installing maemo-sdk-debug now | 18:12 |
| BCMM | (don't worry, i haven't been puzzling over it nonstop since i last spoke to you) | 18:12 |
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| BCMM | assuming this all works right, where would be an appropriate place to post a howto for other people wanting to do n900 development on Gentoo? | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | the wiki? | 18:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Blog? | 18:17 |
| BCMM | thanks | 18:17 |
| Venemo | BCMM: either the forum (talk.maemo.org) or a blog entry, or a wiki page | 18:17 |
| Venemo | BCMM: or both | 18:18 |
| BCMM | Venemo: http://wiki.maemo.org? | 18:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Probably sane | 18:19 |
| BCMM | i haven't used the wiki before; are ordinary users allowed to add information to, for example, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation ? | 18:19 |
| trumee | is it possible to play quake 3 with sixaxis controller? | 18:19 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 18:19 |
| SpeedEvil | anyone can add to wiki | 18:19 |
| BCMM | hmmm | 18:19 |
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| trumee | BCMM: there is a webpage somewhere describing how to install scratchbox and maemo sdk on gentoo | 18:21 |
| trumee | BCMM: here, http://geektor.blogspot.com/2009/12/maemo-5-sdk-in-gentoo.html | 18:21 |
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| BCMM | trumee: i've seen a few of those, and i'm doing things slightly differently | 18:22 |
| trumee | BCMM: i have followed that page sucessfully on my gentoo box | 18:22 |
| BCMM | i'm trying to do this with the scratchbox packages in portage | 18:22 |
| BCMM | so far it appears to be working | 18:22 |
| trumee | BCMM: good | 18:22 |
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| trumee | Since there is no quake 3 + sixaxis video on youtube, i guess it is not possible yet. | 18:23 |
| BCMM | assuming this works, i'll have followed http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#On_x86_and_x86_64_Debian-based_systems to the letter apart from using emerge instead of apt-get to get scratchbox, and not having to worry about the groups thing because the ebuild took care of it | 18:24 |
| trumee | aha!, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxRHmsUkijU | 18:25 |
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| Zucca | I've now reseted all the data roaming settings. And I even chose my carrier manually. Now when I open a data connection my N900 still asks if I really want to use roaming GPRS. I'm out of ideas here. | 18:28 |
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| Zucca | Somehow Maemo thinks that my own network carrier isn't "home". | 18:30 |
| technomike_phone | yes | 18:30 |
| technomike_phone | same here | 18:30 |
| technomike_phone | and it's because | 18:30 |
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| Zucca | Yes? | 18:30 |
| technomike_phone | when your phone switches from 3G to 2G when you move out off 3G area | 18:30 |
| technomike_phone | some networks put you on their 2G network which is actually used from another network | 18:31 |
| technomike_phone | if you understand what I mean | 18:31 |
| Zucca | Ok. So this is the deal... | 18:31 |
| kerio | mine does that | 18:31 |
| Zucca | Yes. | 18:32 |
| kerio | but also makes me pay for internet while in 2g | 18:32 |
| kerio | so... | 18:32 |
| zeltak | hya..anyone using MohammadAG pulse audio fix? how is it working for you guys? | 18:32 |
| Zucca | My celculler connection is from a company that owned by another company... | 18:32 |
| kerio | what fix? | 18:32 |
| kerio | :o | 18:32 |
| kerio | i like fixes | 18:32 |
| Zucca | And at some places it uses the owning company identification rather than the company which I'm client of. | 18:33 |
| zeltak | i remember seeing a package a few days ago that fixes some pulseaudio bugs...mainly audio stuttering (which happens to me alot on my n900) | 18:33 |
| zeltak | kerio: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=793851 | 18:34 |
| GAN900 | kerio, see Talk. | 18:34 |
| GAN900 | kerio, or mwkn.net | 18:35 |
| kerio | i don't have stutter | 18:35 |
| zeltak | i do...alot...happens mainly with podcasts | 18:35 |
| * RST38h sighs | 18:37 | |
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| MohammadAG | X-Fade, ping | 18:39 |
| Zucca | technomike_phone: Is it possible add more operators to "home". Via gconf? | 18:40 |
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| zeltak | hya MohammadAG | 18:41 |
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| MohammadAG | hi | 18:41 |
| zeltak | so how is your pusle package working so far? is it only for the power kernel? | 18:42 |
| RST38h | ...Once the properties of SCP-761 were confirmed, most of these missing persons were located, in the form of entombed remains. | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG | stutters a bit apparently, less than before | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | volume is higher for some | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | max volume that is | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | it's for a newer unreleased stock kernel, works on power-kernel | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | err, kernel-power | 18:43 |
| zeltak | gothca | 18:43 |
| zeltak | yeah i get loads of stuttering on podcasts | 18:43 |
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| red | how do I safely reset my n900 so that all my data is garbled (and unsaveable with certain software) | 18:44 |
| red | bascly would like to shred the memory and then flash the OS to it | 18:44 |
| zeltak | are there sys logs on the n900 like on stock linux? most emulators crash my system and reboot it and was wondering if there is anyway to pinpoint the cause | 18:44 |
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| GAN900 | ~flashing | 18:47 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 18:47 |
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| RST38h | ...Contaminated organisms gradually lose all color saturation, becoming living "black and white" characters over the course of a few days, at which point they become contagious. | 18:49 |
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| BCMM | are you quoting from infobot's link? | 18:51 |
| RST38h | yes. | 18:51 |
| BCMM | i don't think i'm going to update my firmware | 18:51 |
| BCMM | my next guess would be SCP | 18:52 |
| technomike_phone | MohammadAG | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | technomike_phone, | 18:52 |
| technomike_phone | Could you help me out | 18:52 |
| technomike_phone | installing your pulseaudio patch | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | install kernel-power | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | download tar | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | mkdir pulseaudio | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | cd pulseaudio | 18:53 |
| technomike_phone | I have renamed the file but not sure what to do | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | tar -xvf ../all.tar | 18:53 |
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| MohammadAG | dpkg -i * | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | done | 18:53 |
| technomike_phone | many thanks | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | welcome :P | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | quickest howto I've written | 18:54 |
| technomike_phone | how can i verify kernel-power is installed | 18:54 |
| technomike_phone | I am sure I did it the other day | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | uname -a | 18:54 |
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| technomike_phone | Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Apr 15 09:47:09 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown | 18:55 |
| red | is the finnish n900 with global firmware or uk firmware? | 18:55 |
| technomike_phone | kernel-power is already the newest version. | 18:56 |
| technomike_phone | ah must be then :) | 18:57 |
| technomike_phone | surely its global. | 18:57 |
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| technomike_phone | MohammedAG | 18:57 |
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| technomike_phone | tar -xvf ../all.tar | 18:57 |
| technomike_phone | tar: invalid tar magic | 18:58 |
| satmd | file all.tar | 18:58 |
| MNZ | RST38h, wth is this scp wiki? | 19:01 |
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| MNZ | RST38h, nvm, just found a how-to-write-an-scp | 19:04 |
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| technomike_phone | damn this pulseaudio ! | 19:06 |
| technomike_phone | shouldn't even have to do this anyway | 19:06 |
| technomike_phone | it shouldn't even stutter anyway | 19:07 |
| technomike_phone | N900 is definetly the last nokia device I ever buy. Fed up with the ammount of bugs and product quality. | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | good for you | 19:07 |
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| kerio | the n900 is a crappy device, but it's still better than *anything* similar that exists today | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | get a freerunner | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:09 |
| technomike_phone | I don't mean that bad. I am just saying. Its a shame about the stuttering audio. | 19:09 |
| technomike_phone | Agreed totally kerio | 19:09 |
| technomike_phone | xD stskeeps | 19:09 |
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| Zucca | Is it possible to set home carrier manually? So that N900 thinks it's in home carrier zone? | 19:17 |
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| technomike_phone | Not sure | 19:20 |
| technomike_phone | Can N900 play .flv kerio ? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes? :P | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | mplayer | 19:21 |
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| technomike_phone | Ah yeah :) | 19:22 |
| technomike_phone | of course | 19:22 |
| technomike_phone | I say stuff without thinking sometimes haha | 19:22 |
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| mikki-kun | did it ever happen to anyone of you, that certain apps segfault for you? my fennec v2_a doesn't work e.g. | 19:29 |
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| technomike_phone | is it possible to have more than one x terminal open | 19:33 |
| mikki-kun | ctrl+shift+x | 19:34 |
| mikki-kun | that makes a new terminal | 19:34 |
| mikki-kun | a lil bit of finger twister though | 19:34 |
| technomike_phone | thanks alot :D worked | 19:34 |
| mikki-kun | np :) | 19:34 |
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| GAN900 | So which of you UK folks are looking out for hurricane Earl? :P | 19:51 |
| technomike_phone | Never knew about it | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | It may start swinging your direction, so watch out. :P | 19:52 |
| technomike_phone | :o !!! | 19:53 |
| technomike_phone | going to check it out on the net now | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | There's a second one that may be headed for New York. | 19:54 |
| * GAN900 cackles. | 19:54 | |
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| joga | does someone use quick-launch with transitioncontrol? | 19:59 |
| joga | apparently doesn't work, I get the same as the person in this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=794267 | 20:00 |
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| MNZ | how do I KILLLLL pulseaudio? | 20:17 |
| MNZ | what's restarting it? | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | upstart | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | do you want call audio? | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | then you have to have PA | 20:18 |
| MNZ | temporarily, no | 20:18 |
| MNZ | ok, so how do I kill it? | 20:19 |
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| kerio | stop pulseaudio | 20:25 |
| kerio | as root | 20:25 |
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| MNZ | kerio, thanks. | 20:26 |
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| skyscraper | MohammadAG51: how to use the new ubuntu? | 20:42 |
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| skyscraper | MohammadAG51: with old tutorial http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=752676&postcount=51 | 20:44 |
| skyscraper | ? | 20:44 |
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| Zucca | Oh man. Just when I got sorted all my connection back in order fMMS messes all up again. | 20:50 |
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| kerio | frals! | 20:52 |
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| Zucca | fMMS replaced my default gprs connection and changed it into MMS connection. My previous gprs connetion is now IAP/0000-0000-0000-0000 and MMS connection is IAP/Saunalahti@32@Internet... | 20:53 |
| Zucca | It should be the other way aroud. | 20:53 |
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| Zucca | Now I can't even receive any MMS... | 20:54 |
| Zucca | I think I'll delete every fMMS settings from gconf and add gprs connection by hand. | 20:55 |
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| Zucca | Wtf... | 20:56 |
| Zucca | fMMS choses first wlan connection and tries to download MMSes using it... | 20:56 |
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| MohammadAG51 | skyscraper, wait till I post a new tutorial | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | Zucca, fmms can't use wlan to dl mms | 21:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | It'd be nice if it could. | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | But yes - that's not supported by the network | 21:15 |
| red | why do all flashing guides tell me to fully charge the battery? | 21:15 |
| red | its not like its gonna end in middle of it | 21:15 |
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| Venemo | red: because if you flash with an empty battery, dragons will eat you | 21:15 |
| red | is just for stupid people who attempt to do it with like 5% power? :P | 21:15 |
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| Venemo | red: well yeah... | 21:17 |
| Venemo | red: anyways, where would you draw the line? | 21:18 |
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| red | "Make sure not to attempt to flash the phone with less than 1 hour of battery life left" or something | 21:18 |
| mikki-kun | flashing takes about 3 mins at max | 21:18 |
| Venemo | red: yeah, how can you tell how much is that? | 21:18 |
| red | emmc flashing + boot takes a lot | 21:18 |
| mikki-kun | so i'd say even with 10% it should be doable, yet risky | 21:18 |
| red | i've been at boot screen for ~3 minutes now | 21:19 |
| red | plus the flashes itself :) | 21:19 |
| red | optifying takes a while | 21:19 |
| Venemo | red: it is much easier to understand that "fully charge your battery" than to say "you need to charge your battery so much that it survies for 45 minutes" | 21:19 |
| mikki-kun | red: usually me only 3 mins (i flash both when i do it) | 21:19 |
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| red | normal flash was really fast for me | 21:20 |
| mikki-kun | ahhh, yeah, booting... that will take another 3 mins ^^''' | 21:20 |
| red | done that once | 21:20 |
| red | boot took like 2-3 mins | 21:20 |
| red | now its been like 4 f | 21:20 |
| red | hopefully nothing went wrong :) | 21:20 |
| Venemo | okay, fully charging is not a requirement, but your device will break if it runs out of battery while flashing | 21:20 |
| mikki-kun | Venemo: but shouldn't the usb itself also give some charging? | 21:22 |
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| mikki-kun | i know, maybe not the 1.2A like the charger, yet the 200-300 (i guess it is that much) should be sufficent for that mode | 21:22 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: how do you expect the charging software to work when it is being replaced? | 21:22 |
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| red | actually last time i flished I recall that the boot screen never continued | 21:24 |
| mikki-kun | Venemo: hm... does the bme kill then every input of electricity it gets while replaced? | 21:24 |
| red | and i had to take the battery out eventually, put it back in and then it booted fine | 21:24 |
| red | flashed* :P | 21:24 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: bme doesn't run when the device is off... and it is off while charging | 21:24 |
| mikki-kun | ugh, shouldn't happened Ö.ö | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | it's not off while charging. | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | it's ACTDEAD | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | trust me, the moment there's the least amount of power, nolo starts | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:25 |
| mikki-kun | Venemo: isn't bme the stuff which is for all the power management responsible? | 21:25 |
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| Venemo | mikki-kun: it runs on top of the OS | 21:25 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: anyways, this is pointless to argue about :) | 21:25 |
| red | nolo? | 21:25 |
| mikki-kun | sure it is, but i guess your knowledge exceeds mine so i guess it isn't pointless as i learn some new stuff :) | 21:26 |
| mikki-kun | red: bootloader of the n900 | 21:26 |
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| red | it's still displaying the Nokia logo with the USB icon on the right top corner | 21:27 |
| red | should I keep waiting or unplug and reboot? | 21:27 |
| red | last time that worked but i held my breath x) | 21:27 |
| mikki-kun | red: you've done what so far with it? | 21:27 |
| red | flashed normal without -R | 21:28 |
| red | then flahsed EMMC | 21:28 |
| Venemo | red: should work | 21:28 |
| red | ah, I still had it mounted | 21:28 |
| Venemo | red: afaik | 21:28 |
| mikki-kun | mounted? uh, while flashing you don't need it mounted | 21:28 |
| red | winblows | 21:28 |
| mikki-kun | ugh! | 21:28 |
| mikki-kun | my condolences :( | 21:29 |
| mikki-kun | ^^ | 21:29 |
| red | been booting into windows the past month due starcraft 2 :) | 21:29 |
| red | usually in linux | 21:29 |
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| mikki-kun | SC2 via wine not working? | 21:29 |
| red | it would work shit if it did | 21:29 |
| red | ejecting n900 from my computer made it start booting :) | 21:29 |
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| red | every directx game loses performance when run from wine | 21:30 |
| red | opengl games work great usually :) | 21:30 |
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| red | better fps than in windows in most apps | 21:31 |
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| mikki-kun | i hope that directX and openGl will in some way unify... but i guess it will never happen... | 21:35 |
| Venemo | red: what distro do you use? | 21:35 |
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| red | ubuntu :p | 21:59 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: the whole point of DirectX is to not be OpenGL | 22:00 |
| mikki-kun | luke-jr: but i guess dreaming is allowed ;) | 22:00 |
| luke-jr | mikki-kun: WINE-DirectX is obviously OpenGL-based | 22:00 |
| mikki-kun | better yet directX should die ^^ | 22:01 |
| luke-jr | right | 22:01 |
| luke-jr | WINE-DirectX basically implements the DirectX API on top of OpenGL | 22:01 |
| luke-jr | so it's the closest thing to "unify" that is possible | 22:01 |
| red | dx is easier to develop with | 22:01 |
| Venemo | :D | 22:02 |
| * luke-jr flames red. | 22:02 | |
| red | but its also very bloated | 22:02 |
| luke-jr | QtOpenGL. nuff said | 22:02 |
| red | opengl ftw :) | 22:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: during flashing (or when in flashing mode) N900 doesn't charge | 22:18 |
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| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: so if i accidently press u while i plug my wall-charger in, will that prevent it from charging? (in case my battery was emptied) | 22:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep | 22:18 |
| mikki-kun | that's a major flaw imo | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Umm | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Does it respond to U if it detects a charger? | 22:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I could check it, but I lack motivation. | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, that's a consideration how to make flashing most stable and independent of other factors | 22:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: afaik it does | 22:20 |
| ShadowJK | The other argument is that it should always respond to u to make flashing easier | 22:21 |
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| ShadowJK | because people are sure as hell having trouble with it as is | 22:21 |
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| mikki-kun | but why did nokia disable access to the rootfs through usb? | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, matter of fact: NOLO doesn't charge, 'u' is managed by NOLO | 22:22 |
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| zeltak | hya..ok reflashed the n900 (not the emmc) to check my emulator issues but i have another issue...i get an "application error" in the gui app manager so i cant gain root..anyone seen this before after a fresh flasj? | 22:22 |
| zeltak | *flash | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: and rootfs access thru usb is a kernel/system function | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | morning | 22:23 |
| mikki-kun | so it's just some small switch inside the kernel?! | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | geez i wasted whole day | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | the kernel needs / to run, so you can't umount it | 22:23 |
| jacekowski | not really | 22:24 |
| jacekowski | kernel only needs process with id 1 to run | 22:24 |
| mikki-kun | i was more talking when the device is off | 22:24 |
| jacekowski | pid* | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: and how'd you share samba over usb then, with just init running? | 22:24 |
| zeltak | so anyone knows how to gain root inthe xterm wihout the GUI? | 22:24 |
| jacekowski | hmm, | 22:24 |
| mikki-kun | i don't like that.. e.g. i mess up with one tiny start-script, i need to reflash my whole rootfs :( | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | system in tmpfs | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | and pivot_root | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: no way | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | so real / would be unmounted | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | well, access to rootfs via usb would be possible | 22:25 |
| zeltak | thx DocScrutinizer ...shit...so what do i do regarding the application error on the gui app mnager? i got that after a fresh flash? | 22:25 |
| jacekowski | like initrd with emergency stuff required to presetn filesystems via usb | 22:26 |
| mikki-kun | it would make experimenting less time-consuming if something dies accidently | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: reflash eMMC | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | possible, not to complicated to do | 22:26 |
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| zeltak | ahhh man..not again :( | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: nolo will wait for usb when you press u during bootup | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: reflash both , even! you can't reflash eMMC without reflashing rootfs same time | 22:27 |
| zeltak | its weird...cant u reflash just the root..why do i always end up needing to reflash the emmc | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: ^ | 22:27 |
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| zeltak | so everytime i reflash one i have to reflash the other..thats sucks..\ | 22:27 |
| Venemo | re | 22:28 |
| mikki-kun | Venemo: wb | 22:28 |
| MNZ | hrrmmm I wonder if we can create a rescue system sorta thing | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: ? | 22:28 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: nolo will wait for usb when you press u during bootup | 22:28 |
| MNZ | the rootfs can be repartitioned right? | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 22:28 |
| GAN900 | zeltak, why are you reflashing with any frequency? | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | zeltak: usually you can reflash just root. but seems you got a problem with apt cache, and you'll not fix that without reflashing eMMC, or gaining root which you can't | 22:28 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: you don't need any usb cable connected | 22:28 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: you just press u and it will wait for usb cable | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | MNZ: In principle, you can load an arbitrary kernel into RAM and boot it without flashin. So - kernel that knows how to boot off SD, and you're done. | 22:28 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, I think you need the cable in | 22:29 |
| GAN900 | But it'll wait for the FLASHER: | 22:29 |
| zeltak | GAN900: first time systme was unbootable..now i have all emulators rebooting my n900 so i wanted a clean start to see if its a hardware issue | 22:29 |
| zeltak | oh well...gonna reflash the emmc as well.. | 22:29 |
| MNZ | SpeedEvil, that would be sweet, so next time I mess up my modules I can just boot up, extract the modules package manually and reboot | 22:29 |
| mikki-kun | zeltak: you can still make a backup of your emmc | 22:29 |
| mikki-kun | i'd do so if i was you | 22:30 |
| zeltak | yeah i know just thought emmc was like a /home on my nix system where i only had to reinstall root each time but i guess it dosent work that way | 22:30 |
| SpeedEvil | MNZ: Something that could boot not regardingany of the inbuilt flash, and do backup/restrore/checkpount would be nice. | 22:30 |
| mikki-kun | hm, i don't know how difficult that would be but i think it would be nice if somebody could implement that | 22:30 |
| MNZ | SpeedEvil, my next project probably | 22:31 |
| mikki-kun | zeltak: what nokia made with maemo is imo disgusting >.< i typed "shutdown -h now" as root and it was like "did you input something? *after a minute* i guess i get something, hang on..." | 22:31 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: wtf? | 22:32 |
| mikki-kun | Venemo: yeah, dunno what was going on, i tried then with the power-button menu... it didn't even come up... | 22:32 |
| mikki-kun | i even went shortly for it to recognize from my base 600 to 900 | 22:33 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: for me, long pressing the power key always takes care of this in seconds | 22:33 |
| mikki-kun | i decided to just kill it | 22:33 |
| mikki-kun | Venemo: i was being nice and just made the short press | 22:33 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: ah. | 22:33 |
| mikki-kun | so i can get the option "shutdown device" | 22:33 |
| mikki-kun | but then i decided to just press it longer | 22:34 |
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| Venemo | :D | 22:34 |
| mikki-kun | btw, with meego coming out all the software and drivers of it will be OSS, right? | 22:34 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: not all of them | 22:34 |
| mikki-kun | :( | 22:35 |
| Venemo | mikki-kun: ask Stskeeps, he's expert | 22:35 |
| mikki-kun | it's really... unhelpful for the community of stuff is kept closed :( | 22:35 |
| mikki-kun | s/of/if | 22:35 |
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| mikki-kun | jacekowski: btw, how can segfaults and floating point exceptions be triggered? i had that recently with uhm... fennec-v2_alpha and asciiportal | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: s/shutdown -h/init 0/ | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | instant shutdown | 22:37 |
| mikki-kun | i guess not the healthy one | 22:37 |
| mikki-kun | like using kill -9 instead of kill -15 | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem is if you want all the swapped out apps to quit gracefully - possibly even with saving project files and shit | 22:38 |
| mikki-kun | hm, won't the swap clean itself every reboot? | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure it will | 22:39 |
| mikki-kun | ahhh, i understood it empties the swap as well on shutdown | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | no it just makes all the apps to *run* which implies a lot of swaping in pages for each app, if you're unlucky | 22:41 |
| mikki-kun | man, but diff is really a wonderful tool... "diff -ru $DIR_1 $DIR_2" and i know which files i need to copy over for the backup :) | 22:41 |
| mikhas | mikki-kun, you're doing it wrong - use rsycn ;-) | 22:41 |
| mikhas | rsync even | 22:41 |
| mikki-kun | mikhas: too lazy to set it up | 22:41 |
| mikhas | nothing to set up | 22:41 |
| mikki-kun | ^^ | 22:41 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: loads of reasons | 22:42 |
| mikhas | "rsync -avr origin target" (and can work through ssh) | 22:42 |
| mikki-kun | -avr... thanks :) | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: poorly written apps in 99% of cases | 22:42 |
| mikki-kun | i'll remember that option | 22:42 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: and memory/cpu problems in 1% of cases | 22:43 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: hm, maybe the high temps here in TH didn't do it any good | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: but if you OC then it's more likely that it's memory problem | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: how would you make it delete files from target which are missing on source? | 22:43 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: hu? with the diff-method? | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that's default | 22:43 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: to delete missing files | 22:44 |
| mikki-kun | i'd kill them manually | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | err sorry, mikhas | 22:44 |
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| mikki-kun | ahhh, ok ^^ | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: hmm | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | or --delete | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | hmm, yeah | 22:44 |
| jacekowski | --delete | 22:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anybody ever took notice of mc fish fs? | 22:45 |
| mikki-kun | mikhas: thanks for that really :) one step closer of setting up cronjobs with rsync then (when i have my server then for my file backups) :) | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | freakin haccker stuff, really :-D | 22:45 |
| jacekowski | i use it sometimes | 22:45 |
| zeltak | DocScrutinizer: i use it all the time | 22:45 |
| mikhas | mikki-kun, hm - I think I have some old scripts that were for that | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I tried it but had to appreciate there's no rsh on N900 maemo | 22:46 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: how can i check my mem on the n900 and possibly the cpu? i had here really sometimes like 50°C inside of my device :( mostly happening lately while charging and having the screen on | 22:47 |
| mikhas | I even had one that would create snapshots via rsync, and make clever use of symlinks to save space | 22:47 |
| jacekowski | mikki-kun: have you overclocked? | 22:47 |
| Zucca | \o/ Finally got fMMS working. Serious gconftool usage was required. But now everything works. Thank you me. | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | mikhas: meego(.com) n900 port would have very few blobs (3d accelerator, battery management), and they would be redistributable for non-commercial usage | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: 50°C? forget it, not the least problem | 22:48 |
| skyscraper | MohammadAG51: when you'll write a tutorial? and wthout r&d? | 22:48 |
| mikki-kun | jacekowski: at some point i was too curious to see the results so yeah i did, but now i have it mostly running on 600 (at times when i see major slowdowns i will make some light OC and immediatly after change back when it is fluent again) | 22:49 |
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| mikki-kun | Zucca: congrats :) | 22:49 |
| jacekowski | and it happens only on fennec?> | 22:49 |
| mikki-kun | uhhh, fennec v2_alpha (segfault) and on asciiportal (game in the repos; extras-devel; flop error) | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: you're the first one to pass DocScrutinizer's OC-fools test and earn the certificate "licence to OC" :-D | 22:51 |
| mikki-kun | but on other stuff it seems to work flawlessly... though i am not sure what makes blessn900 distort the results so messy | 22:51 |
| jacekowski | should we have a party | 22:52 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: hu, how come? just cause i use the console in executing the files and seeing immediatly after the execution those errors? | 22:52 |
| mikki-kun | ^^ | 22:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: it's due to the fact you're offering a sane rationale about how to OC | 22:53 |
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| jacekowski | well, if i would OC it would be just because i like speed | 22:53 |
| mikki-kun | what for do i need my device running at 1.1 (not 1.15, doesn't work, dunno why, was curious what the max was and ended with 1.1 therefore) all the time when it works with 600 as well good enough... the 1.1 sucks my battery in no time dry | 22:54 |
| jacekowski | i would have to try that excuse with a police if i ever get caught | 22:54 |
| skyscraper | MohammadAG: when you'll write a tutorial? and wthout r&d? | 22:55 |
| mikki-kun | and i guess the guys at TI had a reason saying it is only made for 600 | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: if you were to consider when to fire one of your 4 solid matter fuel rocket boosters to enjoy speed, and you'd know after #4 you probably have to press the car to a cube... | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I'd like to see what you're doing with your love for speed then | 22:56 |
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| Zucca | Anyone succeeded on inserting alt key to maemo terminal? | 22:56 |
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| mikki-kun | Zucca: i think the FN was considered alt (correct me if i am wrong guys) | 22:56 |
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| jacekowski | i recently had very unpleasant situation at ~40mph | 22:57 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: btw i am honored to be the first to pass your test :) | 22:57 |
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| jacekowski | i saw one bloke on bike overtaking me | 22:57 |
| jacekowski | on A class road with dual carriageway | 22:57 |
| jacekowski | but it was raining and traffic in left lane was slow | 22:57 |
| jacekowski | and there was another biker still behind me | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | so i was waiting | 22:58 |
| Zucca | mikki-kun: I just addad 'alt' with gconf. | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | and when i decided to change lane | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | i checked if he's still behing me | 22:58 |
| Zucca | Now there's alt, but it has no effect. | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | behind me* | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | indicated | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: (TI had reason) if you're interested, /query infobot , type 'omap-oc' | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | and slowly moved to right line | 22:59 |
| jacekowski | and at that point he disappeared | 22:59 |
| mikki-kun | ohhh, seems i either understood it then wrong or my mind switched some facts | 22:59 |
| mikki-kun | thanks DocScrutinizer, just did so | 22:59 |
| jacekowski | as it worked out he decided to accelerate and go in between lanes | 22:59 |
| jacekowski | seriously, how stupid you have to be to do something like that | 23:00 |
| jacekowski | during rain | 23:00 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, well, he was on a bike. | 23:00 |
| GAN900 | aka, organdonormobile | 23:01 |
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| jacekowski | people that want to drive bike should have compulsory IQ test | 23:01 |
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| skyscraper | MohammadAG are you there? | 23:02 |
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| MohammadAG | sighh | 23:03 |
| skyscraper | i need a howto for your new ubuntu^^ | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG | busy fixing router with openwrt | 23:03 |
| skyscraper | hm | 23:03 |
| skyscraper | have done all like in the old how-to ... and tried to boot (without r&d) - wont boot.. - is r&d needed, in this version, too? | 23:04 |
| skyscraper | MohammadAG | 23:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | skyscraper: at least it's painless and easily revertible when you just try with R&D | 23:07 |
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| skyscraper | DocScrutinizer: i'm afraid activating R&D.... only did it one time and there was so much information on screen xD | 23:08 |
| mikki-kun | hm, nice stuff to read :) | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 23:08 |
| skyscraper | MohammadAG: so R&D enable would help? | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | it won't "help", it's a requirement | 23:08 |
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| skyscraper | okay xD | 23:09 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: btw, my first thought when i used kernel-power was when switching to "ideal" 'uhm, wtf?! i don't want to OC!' | 23:09 |
| skyscraper | is it true that i cant set R&D with windows-flasher3.5 | 23:09 |
| mikki-kun | i just want lower voltages... from my humble fast tests till now i can't say though if it consumes more or less mAs... it kinda seems to be on a lvl of ±5% i guess | 23:10 |
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| MNZ | You know we need a wiki page listing every known thing that can be optimized in maemo. Someone start it and devs will eventually add stuff. | 23:13 |
| mikki-kun | but i found one funny thing... it happens when i am using microB and watching youtube-vids and want to also see some details (meaning i use the 480p version when available and in fullscreen; that usually needs a faster clockspeed, like 750 or 900, depening on the content as it looks) it seems to bring microB at times into an infinite refresh-loop of that page... | 23:14 |
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| MNZ | Though for some reason I feel even when/if things run faster people will still OC | 23:14 |
| MNZ | Regardless, someone start that wiki page! | 23:14 |
| mikki-kun | first i thought my voltages are too low and went with adding one additional notch to that freq and reloading the file but i suspect some 'routing-issue' inside the hardware, either stuff goes too fast or i dunno (not a pro in that) | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | devs use wikis? | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | ... devs use web browsers? | 23:15 |
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| mikki-kun | MNZ: OC'ing just pretends you are being 1337 | 23:16 |
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| pyther | Hi | 23:16 |
| pyther | Is there a web browser that won't refresh the page unless if something changed? | 23:16 |
| mikki-kun | everybody can install power-kernel reboot, kernel-config load ideal and there he goes... | 23:16 |
| mikki-kun | the real challenge lies in understanding how it is really done | 23:16 |
| pyther | I'm using the anyremote web ui and it loads something like http://tux.lan:5000/8.key will no new code get returned, making it silly and time consuming to refresh the page | 23:17 |
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| ShadowJK | so you wamt to look if something is new without looking if something is new :D | 23:18 |
| mikki-kun | pyther: hm, how do you mean? you are on that webpage and microB refreshes after some time the page itself? | 23:18 |
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| pyther | mikki-kun: no I'm on http://localhost:5550/ I then click on a link for http://localhost:5550/key.6 this sends data to the http server, but no new data is being returned to the client (microb) | 23:19 |
| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: i guess 'possible', like having a port open to the webpage and it then sends if some new stuff has appeared a 'refresh me' command | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | http doesn't have that | 23:19 |
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| pyther | well firefox works pretty well because it looks at what is returned vs what is loaded | 23:20 |
| MNZ | ShadowJK, actually it does :D Content-expiry | 23:20 |
| pyther | firefox is just kinda chunky :P | 23:20 |
| MNZ | no wait | 23:20 |
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| MNZ | wrong header | 23:20 |
| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: hm, how does the google-mail webinterface work then? i had it once idle and out of the blue it told me "please refresh me, new message arrived" (in a small infobox on the bottom right) | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | sure, but it has to predict into future when new stuff happens :) | 23:20 |
| MNZ | anywho, a browser plugin that checks the last-modified on the page every few seconds and refreshes page if it changed | 23:21 |
| korhojoa | mikki-kun: that's ajax | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | mikki-kun, there's a jabascript reloading a page at regular intervals to check for new stuff | 23:21 |
| korhojoa | isn't that what i just said? | 23:22 |
| mikki-kun | i've heard some stuff about that, but tbh i know as much about it as mankind knows about the billionth galaxy ^^ | 23:22 |
| korhojoa | (implied) | 23:22 |
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| pyther | I guess I'll just use firefox for the time being | 23:22 |
| korhojoa | asynchronous javascript and xml | 23:22 |
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| ShadowJK | oh so that's what it stands for | 23:22 |
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| mikki-kun | ahh, that makes stuff a bit more understandable *rephrasing 'billionth galaxy' to 'our solar system'* | 23:23 |
| ShadowJK | I thought it meant "please make my browser's progress bar useless, and please silently hide all network failures from me and just silently fail, and also make my browser unresponsive kthx" :) | 23:23 |
| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: not 'kthxbai'? ^^ | 23:24 |
| MNZ | Night folks. Toodles! | 23:24 |
| ShadowJK | pyther, oh so now you're implying your original question was something else entirely | 23:24 |
| ShadowJK | since firefox/whatever has to do the exact same thing | 23:24 |
| pyther | well yes, kinda | 23:24 |
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| pyther | I'm not sure how to explain it but with firefox it goes to the link I click on without reloading the page | 23:25 |
| mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: just out of curiosity, have you played around with changing the clockspeed of your n900? | 23:25 |
| pyther | since the link I click on just sends data to the web server | 23:25 |
| pyther | I don't have a good example :( | 23:25 |
| ShadowJK | I'm pretty sure microb and fennec make the exact same request when you click a link | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | (ok user-agent would be different) | 23:26 |
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| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: aren't the two actually using the same engine? | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | yeah. | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | different versions probably | 23:27 |
| mikki-kun | wouldn't that then mean they are kind of having 99% similiarties in how they ask stuff and work "invisible" from the user | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | And the front-ends are totally different, so whatever they display on screen is going to be whatever, probbly osmething random | 23:28 |
| skyscraper | MohammadAG51: works nice! | 23:28 |
| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: i guess when the v2 beta arrives of fennec it will have a smoother ui than microB | 23:28 |
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| mikki-kun | would love to try v2 but that segfault -.- | 23:30 |
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| ShadowJK | Funny that, I'm not sure I remember any examples of software getting leaner and faster with "upgrades" :) | 23:30 |
| mikki-kun | will try again after the reflash on stock kernel | 23:30 |
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| mikki-kun | i read somewhere it will have running three independant threads then with each handling one specific major component | 23:32 |
| mikki-kun | like one taking care of the UI, the other for the rendering and then the last one for the actual browser | 23:33 |
| mikki-kun | will use more ressources though i guess | 23:33 |
| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: here are the features listed to some degree http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/08/13/status-update-firefox-for-mobile-fennec-2-edges-closer-to-alpha-gets-more-stable-brings-new-features/ | 23:34 |
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| mikki-kun | how do you think of that idea? | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | microb has two threads btw :P | 23:40 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm pessimistic overall.. | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | I mean, nomatter how fast they make the browser, and the lengths they go to to accomplish that are simply amazing, the end-user experience isn't improving much at all | 23:42 |
| ShadowJK | because webmasters make sure as soon as browsers load their page at non-aggravatingly-slow speeds, they add more and more shit, crap and bloat to ensure users have an optimized experience of getting pissed off. | 23:44 |
| mikki-kun | in that case i'd just stop using their page | 23:44 |
| mikki-kun | or juse elinks | 23:45 |
| mikki-kun | *use | 23:45 |
| ShadowJK | but everyone does it! | 23:45 |
| mikki-kun | sorry, seems i am having some massive caffeine-defficite lately | 23:45 |
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| mikki-kun | ShadowJK: google.com so far not :) | 23:45 |
| mikki-kun | and about:blank loads as fast as always XD | 23:45 |
| ShadowJK | they added the fade-in crap.. | 23:45 |
| mikki-kun | i actually like it to some degree | 23:46 |
| mikki-kun | not like hating it, makes the page clean | 23:46 |
| ShadowJK | sure it looks nice and whatever | 23:46 |
| ShadowJK | I just don't like that it manages to slowdown a quad core computer | 23:47 |
| mikki-kun | what?! :o | 23:47 |
| ShadowJK | not to mention n900 | 23:47 |
| mikki-kun | my atom loads that page nicely | 23:47 |
| ShadowJK | where the impact is even more disturbing | 23:47 |
| mikki-kun | n280 | 23:47 |
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| ShadowJK | Sometimes when looking for rare/esoteric information, I come across websites that haven't been touched since 1999 | 23:48 |
| ShadowJK | and man, they're /fast/ | 23:48 |
| ShadowJK | like, you click something and you don't even have time to alt-tab away before it loads and renders | 23:48 |
| ShadowJK | it's like, instant! | 23:49 |
| ShadowJK | not having to wait for content to appear, that's so bloody awesome | 23:49 |
| mikki-kun | seems mankind forgot about efficiency and thinks it's important to have eyecandy | 23:49 |
| mikki-kun | that's the reason apple sells like billions of efficient-unfriendly stuff | 23:50 |
| mikki-kun | like e.g. itunes | 23:50 |
| mikki-kun | i have for that mpd and ncmpcpp and gtk-pod if needed for ipod-sync | 23:50 |
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| ShadowJK | i don't have a computer capable of running itunes, so.. | 23:51 |
| mikki-kun | if i would kill my browser (conkeror, emacs-like webbrowser, built onto xulrunner) i could run my box on 256 ram ^^ | 23:52 |
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| ShadowJK | firefox on my desktop is like 1.5g rss :) | 23:53 |
| mikki-kun | 1.5g rss? | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | 1.5gig memory use | 23:53 |
| mikki-kun | Ö.ö | 23:53 |
| mikki-kun | 1.5gig?! if my conkeror runs like 400MB i kill it and restart it | 23:54 |
| mikki-kun | that is insane :o | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | well I have 8 | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | my opera uses 200M at most | 23:54 |
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| mikki-kun | hm, i have 2, so maybe explains why you don't mind that much ^^ | 23:56 |
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| ShadowJK | biggest problem is I stopped using bookmarks sometimes after opera invented tabbed browsing, and the point when websites became unusable with javascript & css switched off.. | 23:56 |
| mikki-kun | but are there tools for the n900 which can check it's mem and cpu? | 23:56 |
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| tank-man | top and free | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | and instead use tabs as bookmarks, because then it only takes .5 sec to display a web page instead of 5-60sec via a bookmark :) | 23:58 |
| mikki-kun | tank-man: i meant for testing if they are still working properly like memtest86+ | 23:58 |
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| mikki-kun | and btw i think top isn't that userfriendly, i use htop in that case | 23:59 |
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