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| Stskeeps | specs started to appear now? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| johnx | Stskeeps, on the RM-680 / N9? I think we always knew it would be OMAP3, and there have been suggestions of more RAM for a while | 00:03 |
| satmd | (: | 00:03 |
| johnx | so you might as well just confirm the rumors with your internal knowledge :> | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | i still recall fondly when we tried out the rx-51's in may | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | omap3 and multitouch iirc | 00:04 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, about? | 00:04 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, and you count from the ANNOUNCEMENT date? | 00:04 |
| johnx | it's the standard tick-tock cycle. tick = entirely new architecture. tock = refinement | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: there's tear-down photos | 00:05 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, yeah. I was totally right about it being essentially final hardware, BTW :P | 00:05 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa / luke-jr, OMAP36x. | 00:05 |
| GAN900 | So, could be 1GHz. | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | could be? | 00:05 |
| luke-jr | single core? | 00:05 |
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| lcuk | oi, we just had this same discussion about NOT DISCUSSING SPECULATIVE LEAKED HARDWARE | 00:06 |
| luke-jr | we did? | 00:06 |
| johnx | ah, sorry. Was probably asleep at the time | 00:06 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, define "core". But, OMAP3 is Cortex A8. | 00:06 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, meh. | 00:06 |
| * GAN900 has ops here. | 00:06 | |
| luke-jr | GAN900: so pretty much obsolete | 00:06 |
| GAN900 | And I say meh. | 00:06 |
| ShadowJK | Well the beagleboard had similar specs as n900, so I'm going to guess it'll be like beagleboard-xm :P | 00:06 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, some did in #meego, granted it wasnt here but I recognise some faces that were :P | 00:07 |
| johnx | ShadowJK++ | 00:07 |
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| GAN900 | ShadowJK, except that's not 45nm, is it? | 00:07 |
| luke-jr | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60845 :P | 00:07 |
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| ShadowJK | well it's 1GHz, dunno | 00:08 |
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| luke-jr | that's what Nokia *should* make.. | 00:08 |
| GAN900 | Tapping the close button when MicroB locks scrolling on an arrow key press will make it crash. | 00:08 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, yeah, I haven't been paying any attention to the Beagle progress. | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: minor bug, since you want it to go away anyhow | 00:09 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, annoying having to see the banner, though. | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | tbh I've never seen what happens on Maemo when a user app crashes | 00:09 |
| johnx | luke-jr, is that the same design as the Zaurus Cxx00 and Cxx0? | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I wasn't aware there was a difference. Neither? | 00:09 |
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| GAN900 | How's that tilted screen work on the N97? | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | johnx: it's capable of C760 movement (minus rotating screen) combined with N900 movement | 00:10 |
| GAN900 | Not thrilled about it for N9. | 00:10 |
| Dantonic | hey do any of you edit your videos take with your N900? | 00:10 |
| Dantonic | what program do you use? | 00:10 |
| ShadowJK | the N97 keyboard is a joke | 00:10 |
| johnx | luke-jr, aah. so wireless screen with its own battery? :> | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | johnx: no | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | johnx: wires in the moving hinge :P | 00:11 |
| ShadowJK | it makes the zx spectrum keyboard look good | 00:11 |
| johnx | and what's the advantage of that layout compared to the standard 'convertible tablet' aka zaurus cxx? | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | johnx: you can use it like you use a N900 | 00:11 |
| GAN900 | Anybody extrapolate some dimensions from those photos? | 00:12 |
| luke-jr | johnx: also, the N900-movement would have multiple locking points | 00:12 |
| johnx | we could do it based off the size of the micro usb port, jah? | 00:12 |
| luke-jr | johnx: so you could have the screen covering the number keys when you don't need them | 00:12 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 00:13 |
| luke-jr | or only show the bottom row of keys (shortcut keys?) | 00:13 |
| johnx | that sounds pretty involved for small gains ... | 00:13 |
| GAN900 | Or that Chinese person's hand. *g* | 00:13 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: well, it's also harder to break the screen connector? :P | 00:13 |
| luke-jr | johnx: rotate a C760 screen the wrong way and oops | 00:13 |
| luke-jr | but it might take up too much space I guess | 00:14 |
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| johnx | mine still works fine ... | 00:14 |
| luke-jr | mine too | 00:14 |
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| luke-jr | actually, my 802.11b card stopped working for it a year or so ago | 00:14 |
| johnx | and I'd bet that your LCD cable would get destroyed pretty quickly sliding all over the place | 00:14 |
| luke-jr | I did the magic reengineering thing… | 00:14 |
| johnx | ha! I killed 3 so far | 00:14 |
| luke-jr | I ripped the plastic apart, took the board out, glared at it, then scotch taped the plastic back on | 00:15 |
| luke-jr | works as good as new now | 00:15 |
| johnx | I did that to one and it worked for a bit longer | 00:15 |
| luke-jr | hehe | 00:15 |
| luke-jr | it gets pretty hot w/o the complete plastic actually | 00:15 |
| luke-jr | I was kinda hoping there'd be room to cut the board shorter and just stick it entirely inside the C760, but oh well | 00:16 |
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| * johnx sighs at Sharp for missing the boat, again and again and again | 00:16 | |
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| johnx | and Nokia for not learning from their successes and failures with Linux | 00:17 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: I think the problem is people don't want to spend $800 on any handheld device | 00:17 |
| microlith | they do, just not all at once | 00:18 |
| Appiah | maybe it takes time to learn? | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | and are too stupid to realize they spend about that much on all the individual devices total | 00:18 |
| microlith | they like the illusion of a cheap handset | 00:18 |
| microlith | and they think in "how much can I afford per month" and not "how much will this cost me overall" | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | microlith: well, I suppose the downside of having all-in-one is you destroy it all at once… | 00:18 |
| johnx | thinking more about the way they approached the community, but also about the form factors | 00:18 |
| microlith | luke-jr: assuming you're irresponsible with your property, yes | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | microlith: that's the only reason for a cheap handset IMO | 00:19 |
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| microlith | well there's cheap then there's "cheap" | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | :P | 00:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | brolin_empey: (mini PCB) it's glued with doublesided sticky | 00:19 |
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| luke-jr | I'd probably be worried about it too, if I didn't still have my C760 :P | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | so I know from experience I take good enough care to last long beyond use | 00:20 |
| johnx | my SL5500 is still working :) | 00:20 |
| microlith | speaking of Zaurus | 00:20 |
| johnx | and I still miss the portrait layout + keyboard a lot | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I'm not interested in non-clamshells :P | 00:20 |
| microlith | apparently it's taken ~5 years but I saw none of them in Akihabara these last two weeks | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | at least not the Zaurus non-clamshell style | 00:21 |
| johnx | microlith, sadness | 00:21 |
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| johnx | I think I caught a picture at the height of the Zaurus Cxx used market | 00:21 |
| * johnx digs up a pic | 00:21 | |
| microlith | though I did see other hardware, a Sharp device obviously, running Ubuntu | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | microlith: PC-Z1? | 00:21 |
| microlith | believe so | 00:21 |
| microlith | i.MX51 based | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | microlith: too big for a pocket, right? | 00:22 |
| johnx | mmmm | 00:22 |
| microlith | not my pockets :) | 00:22 |
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| microlith | oh | 00:22 |
| microlith | not that | 00:22 |
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| luke-jr | XD | 00:22 |
| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer51: Did you really brick your N900 while disassembling it, as SpeedEvil claims? | 00:22 |
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| microlith | PC-T1 | 00:22 |
| microlith | err | 00:22 |
| microlith | Z1 | 00:22 |
| johnx | http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnxx/452167911/ | 00:23 |
| johnx | microlith, were you at that store? | 00:23 |
| microlith | johnsq: probably, didn't see a single Zaurus at any used hardware store | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, by strange incidence the FPC failed after reassembly, but we have similar reports for several users who didn't disassemble | 00:23 |
| microlith | huge racks of iPhones and iPod Touches though :/ | 00:23 |
| * luke-jr wonders where microlith lives to see Zaurus on a regular basis | 00:23 | |
| brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer51: And should I remove the mini PCB before trying to resolder the micro USB socket? | 00:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sure | 00:24 |
| microlith | luke-jr: was back in 2003 when I was previously in Tokyo | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | I'm pretty sure I've always been the only person for like 100 miles with a C760/N810/N900 | 00:24 |
| johnx | ah. they weren't all that common even when I was there, except for this one incredibly cramped store. I don't remember tha name sadly | 00:24 |
| microlith | when the CXXX series was still getting new models | 00:24 |
| microlith | johnx: when was that? | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and be *extremely* carefull with the FPC | 00:24 |
| microlith | ah, 2007 | 00:24 |
| johnx | 2007 - 2008 | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: where's teh jrBME code? | 00:25 |
| microlith | yeah, no surprise | 00:25 |
| johnx | they had a rack of sony clies next to it, too | 00:25 |
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| microlith | Though with the b-mobile card I had, my N900 was awesome the whole time | 00:25 |
| johnx | there was some beautifully geeky hardware. I'd love to see those same form factors re-imagined with modern internals and a modern screen | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: a first draft is on tmo | 00:25 |
| pigeon | Kegetys: ah... thanks | 00:25 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: src repo? | 00:26 |
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| johnx | anyways. out of here for now | 00:26 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: searching jrbme on tmo finds 2 mere references | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* you make me leave bed | 00:29 |
| luke-jr | … | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=658278#post658278 | 00:29 |
| luke-jr | the shell script is jrbme? -.- | 00:30 |
| ShadowJK | it's supposed to charge | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: after you understood what it's doing, you'll be able to 'fix' the 'bug' it has | 00:30 |
| ShadowJK | but it has a few bugs :) | 00:31 |
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| luke-jr | I doubt I'll *ever* understand what that is doing | 00:31 |
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| ShadowJK | bq24150 datasheet helps :) | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: then it's not for you, honestly - and no, that's not jrbme, that's a first draft as noted in the post | 00:32 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: but… that's not the chip in N900… | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | what is then? | 00:33 |
| luke-jr | bq27200 | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | *SIGH* | 00:34 |
| luke-jr | … | 00:34 |
| * DocScrutinizer heads off direction bed again | 00:34 | |
| ShadowJK | bq24150 is the charger. bq27200 is the charge meter | 00:34 |
| luke-jr | o | 00:34 |
| luke-jr | so at charging finished, does it automatically go into "maintain charge" mode, or start discharging? | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | It stops charging. Then it later restarts charge if it has dropped | 00:35 |
| luke-jr | ew :/ | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | You know "maintain charge" kills batteries, right? | 00:36 |
| luke-jr | no? :P | 00:36 |
| luke-jr | how about "run off AC" then? | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not possible | 00:36 |
| luke-jr | wait, BME does "maintain charge"… is it killing the battery? | 00:37 |
| luke-jr | or is it lying? | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | No it doesn't. It stops charging, and then it starts charging when charge level has dropped | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bme does microcycling just like bq24150 | 00:37 |
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| luke-jr | so BME reporting constant 100% is a lie? | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | It always says "Battery Full" after reaching battery full, until battery is at about 50-75 percent or something :) | 00:38 |
| luke-jr | 27200 is reporting 100 too O.o | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but yes, odds are its doing so micro microcycling, it may kill battery | 00:38 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and when screen on, it actually never stops charging | 00:39 |
| * luke-jr ponders a smart battery charger daemon that predicts when I depart and plans ahead to hit 100% about that time… | 00:39 | |
| ShadowJK | Well the top-off charge happens at a point where the battery is sp full any system load will drop the total current into battery below bq27200's end-of-charge detection threshold | 00:39 |
| luke-jr | would it in fact be better for the battery to let it drop to 5% overnight? | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no | 00:41 |
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| luke-jr | just 50-75? | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | let it drop to 85 | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | then it kicks in with recharge, automatically | 00:41 |
| ShadowJK | bme shuts down the system before 6 percent ;) (and then kids find ways to drain the remaining 6 percent and wonder why they can't charge) | 00:42 |
| luke-jr | oh, so the shell script doesn't need to keep running? O.o | 00:42 |
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| ShadowJK | That shell script, if its bugs were fixed, would exit on full battery | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it does a one shot charge | 00:43 |
| luke-jr | what kicks in with recharge automatically, then? | 00:43 |
| mathiasg | anyone tried to play wargus on N900? | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | my version here is keeping 'charging', but not finished yet | 00:43 |
| luke-jr | o | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the bq and the bme both do | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | If the script was modified to not exit when status is "Done", the hardware would automatically kick in the re-recharge | 00:44 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: so just kick the watchdog forever? | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bme at 99, bq at ~85 | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: yep | 00:45 |
| luke-jr | or I guess I should check what happens if I remove AC power… | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, yep, or until status other than charging or charge done anyway | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | basically | 00:45 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: like removal of external power src? | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 00:46 |
| luke-jr | or can i seriously just write an init script and cronjob? <.< | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 00:46 |
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| luke-jr | hmm | 00:46 |
| luke-jr | does sound like a job for a kernel driver IMO | 00:47 |
| ShadowJK | IME if there's a fault condition reported by bq24150 you need to read it in order to clear it | 00:47 |
| luke-jr | but I don't want to step on you guys' toes either | 00:47 |
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| ShadowJK | So a proper thing would watch /sys/bus/i2c/devices/something/twl4030_usb/vbus to detect presence of power on usb | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | and bring bq24150 out of hibernation to initiate charge | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bq24150 can do that autonomously | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what it can't do is determine the allowable current | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | when charger cable is unplugged, twl4030_usb/vbus goes to 0, bq24150 throws fault codes and IME does nothing for awhile unless you give it instructions :) | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | … so back to init script + cronjob | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: not according to datasheet | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | will drawing too much current break the battery, or the charger? <.< | 00:51 |
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| ShadowJK | also when unplugging charge cable I do echo 0 > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/link, usb sometimes start eating large amounts of power | 00:51 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: can I do that *with* USB plugged too? <.< | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, well it could break a pc usb port, but chargers usually lower voltage which reduces amount going into n900 | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | I don't actually use it for data, after all | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | what you can do is to always charge @500, this won't usally break any usb port, doesn't need fancy enum shit nevertheless, and no musb core to detect charger | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and delays charge-full with charger for only maybe 30..45min | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | I hear in 2.6.34 they have a powersupply framework/api now so that stuff can properly notify eachother of this kind of stuff :) | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | given you idle and dim screen | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, need to hit 'post' on that comment to bugtracker. Wondering since 2 days if it's what I want to say | 00:59 |
| kerio | BCMM: huh? i meant that *all* n900s are still under warranty | 01:00 |
| ShadowJK | oh i guess it's only picky about watchdog timeout :D | 01:01 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: go ahead, you're more informed on N900 BME than I am | 01:03 |
| luke-jr | :p | 01:03 |
| luke-jr | (or open an actual bug for N900 BME…) | 01:03 |
| kerio | luke-jr: NOTABUG/WONTFIX | 01:04 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, ok you're right :) | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | keeping bq24150 tickled "just works" | 01:04 |
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| ShadowJK | but I find usb is eating extra 75mA or so after unplugging charger :) | 01:05 |
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| ShadowJK | 75-150.. | 01:05 |
| luke-jr | is this script's 4V200 = 500 ? | 01:05 |
| ShadowJK | leave 4V200 alone | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | 4.2 is the voltage to charge a Li-Ion battery to | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | You could theoretically lower it to 4.1 and make the battery last 2 years instead of 1 year | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | or something | 01:08 |
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| ShadowJK | 4 vs 2 years, whatever | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | but you'd also only use 80% of its capacity | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | FUUUUUCK | 01:09 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: hmm… | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | they changed #9314 properties, so I can't commit post now | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | Increasing it will wear it out exponentially faster for little gain, and it's also not safe | 01:09 |
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| luke-jr | so it *does* auto-detect the input current? | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah the charger seems to autodetect and go | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: more like 90% | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: nope it doesn't | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: RTFDS | 01:10 |
| luke-jr | meh | 01:10 |
| ShadowJK | guess it depends what you mean by that :) | 01:11 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: maybe try with a new form? I didn't get an email of any such change | 01:11 |
| ShadowJK | bug 9314 | 01:12 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 relicense N8x0 BME | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | subject changed from relicense bme to relicence n9x0 bme, milestone changed, dunno what :-/ | 01:12 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah I couldn't even submit a comment because someone submitted a comment while I was writing mine | 01:12 |
| luke-jr | N900 isn't bq24150A, right? no A? | 01:12 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: I would think you don't have access to change subject/etc | 01:13 |
| luke-jr | I can because I reported it | 01:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | It's A | 01:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bq24150a -> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/n900_11.jpeg | 01:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the 'A' is rather meaningless though, aiui | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a silicon revision afaik | 01:31 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: what is the purpose of (reg 0) 0xc9 masked to 0x77, when 0x77 makes 0x80 of 0xc9 ignored? | 01:32 |
| luke-jr | that is, why not 0x49 | 01:32 |
| luke-jr | err, memory location 4 I mean | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | the masks are buggy | 01:33 |
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| luke-jr | O.o? | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | i2cset does read-mask-modify-write | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | not exactly buggy, but suboptimal | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | and there are registers that have different function when read from and when written to | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | Like the reset register, always reads as 1, iirc :) | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | I still don't get it, other than "buggy" | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | CE isn't correctly taken care of in the draft, as is reset | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | masking 0x41 with 0x77 is the same as masking 0xc9 with 0x77 | 01:34 |
| * ShadowJK doesn't use any masks at all | 01:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: the values aren't generic, they are derived from what I read out from chip when bme is running | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | then I created the masks to mask out bits that have different meaning when read and write | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: as mentioned, I have a better yet unfinished version here, if you want to wait for it then you don't need to bother with the draft at all | 01:37 |
| ShadowJK | hey guess what happened when I tried open that image on n900 ;p | 01:37 |
| luke-jr | o | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | swap-lock? | 01:38 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 01:38 |
| luke-jr | btw, I know the OTG pin isn't connected on the USB chip, but is the bq chip connected? | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, it's connected to several parts of system, yes | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now you managed to wake me :-S | 01:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer heading out for coffee | 01:40 | |
| ShadowJK | If you have connected a charger, and do cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger; you get a '1' as result, and the otg pin input on bq24150 goes high | 01:40 |
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| luke-jr | hrm | 01:42 |
| luke-jr | 32 seconds to kick the charger :/ | 01:42 |
| luke-jr | cron doesn't have that granularity | 01:43 |
| luke-jr | and waking the CPU up every 32 seconds will harm battery life significantly I think | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | I think bme already wakes up every 32x | 01:43 |
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| luke-jr | so for all practical purposes, it needs to be turned off/on | 01:43 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: well then, we can significantly improve battery life ;P | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | make that 15s | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | timer is +-50% or something | 01:44 |
| luke-jr | at least in theory… | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | but yeah, a nicer way would be inotify on /sys/bus/i2c/devices/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus | 01:44 |
| luke-jr | not a concern of mine I guess since to be useful I want N900 constantly tracking GPS and IM :/ | 01:44 |
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| * luke-jr ponders if it would help to turn GPS off when accelerometers don't detect motion | 01:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: what's exactly what we should do, for jrbme | 01:45 |
| ShadowJK | enabled /CE and HZ_MODE on bq24150 when vbus goes away, when vbus appears: disable HZ_MODE, program charge params, unset /CE | 01:46 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: are you planning a release soon? | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly :-) | 01:46 |
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| luke-jr | (btw, I presume you're already sure inotify works on sysfs?) | 01:47 |
| ShadowJK | nfi :) | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I did a bit of editing yesterday, as I feel we need something soonish. But I'm really lazy/sick/depressed atm, so no hard schedule | 01:47 |
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| * ShadowJK has regular work plus fibre splicing :-( | 01:47 | |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management - see the script | 01:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | for a moderately friendly power watcher. | 01:48 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: btw, I think your bug comment confirmed N8x0 BME would be enough for your purposes, since it presumably uses the same interfaces other than the battery hw? | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: I'm not even thinking about sysfs nodes yet | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | except for polling them | 01:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have never seen the system go idle more than about 3.5 seconds on average. | 01:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: alas that's not correct | 01:49 |
| luke-jr | what did I miss? | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps told me the interfaces changed | 01:49 |
| luke-jr | o | 01:49 |
| luke-jr | :/ | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | for (jr)bme purposes a polling freq of one per 30s seems sufficient and bearable | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | though it will delay charger plugin detection by max 30s | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | bearable in my book | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the main problem is: can we detect charger at all, without bme? | 01:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the fastcharger detect is done in musb-core, but I'm not sure it will work without bme | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | you mean charger or vus | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | b | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | D+- short | 01:53 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: how can I check from userspace? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | err read out sysnodes? or actively triggering a check? | 01:54 |
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| luke-jr | "fastcharger detect" | 01:54 |
| luke-jr | although I don't know if I have a fastcharger… | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you have the stock nokia one? | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | It's fast | 01:54 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: only the European one and the adapter | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | that's fine | 01:54 |
| luke-jr | if the adapter is a fastcharger, then eys | 01:55 |
| luke-jr | yes* | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems it *should* get triggered by a read to charger sysnode of musb-core | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | what adaptor | 01:55 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: adapter for N810 power thing | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a european plug nokia charger, which has grown a UK mains plug. | 01:55 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I have no European outlets | 01:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Me neither. | 01:55 |
| asj | me three | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | That's why I put two large choc-connectors on the pins. | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | and a cable to a plug on the other end | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | And wrapped it in wood and duct tape so it was secure and safe. | 01:56 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | mad scottsh | 01:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's OK - wood and duct tape qualifies as double layer insulation, so it's quite legal. | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 01:57 |
| * luke-jr is glad he can stick his fingers in an outlet here and live | 01:57 | |
| SpeedEvil | I have mislaid my UK charger. | 01:57 |
| kerio | circuit breakers are mandatory here | 01:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | I was using it while cutting the hedge. | 01:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | kerio: It has a 1A fuse in the plug | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | kerio: here too I think | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | well, unless you mean fuses don't count | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | It may be on top of the garage on reflection. | 01:58 |
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| kerio | not a fuse, a... how do you call them... | 01:58 |
| luke-jr | my house has fuses :p | 01:58 |
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| kerio | the thing everything passes through that interrupts the circuit if there's a short circuit | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: Circuit breaker is probably the corect rterm. | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | DI | 01:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | kerio: You're in the US? | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I seem tro recall. | 01:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Delta-I differential current circuit breaker. Only useful if <30mA | 01:59 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: italy | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah Italy and Spain *need* those, due to abysmal electric craftsmanship | 02:00 |
| kerio | ._. | 02:00 |
| kerio | it's a measure of safety ffs | 02:00 |
| kerio | also probably more than half of our buildings have no ground | 02:01 |
| kerio | so yeah | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: don't worry, they are mandatory here in D as well now | 02:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I fsckng wonder how I could let my electrician get away with that shit - have a 20mA plug DI here for my workbench, but odds are the computers will go down as well when I DIY some funny things, as the main DI triggers faster than the plug | 02:03 |
| kerio | hehe | 02:03 |
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| kerio | some funny things? | 02:03 |
| kerio | somehow i think it's for the best that the power goes down this quickly | 02:04 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, rcd? | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I need my electric shock every once in a while :-P But I don't like the shock when *all* the electrics go down on that | 02:05 |
| kerio | get a UPS | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | already planned | 02:05 |
| * ShadowJK pretends to be an electrician at work occasionally :D | 02:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: rcd?? | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | return current difference thingy? | 02:06 |
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| ShadowJK | like that thing that checks how much goes uut on phase and how much comes back on n and trips if the diff is too big? | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah yep, seems there's no standard name in English I'm aware of - in germany thay are called FI-switch | 02:06 |
| kerio | heh, the italian term translates literally to "lifesaver" | 02:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer heads of to fuse box, to check the exact current of the main FI | 02:07 | |
| ShadowJK | i think they're called "ground current breaker" here.. | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0.03A | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | main. So odds are my plug adapter type 0.02A I use for workbench is not 'protecting' the main switch from trigering as well | 02:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/FI-Schalter RCD is european standard name :-D | 02:11 |
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| ShadowJK | in the absence of qualified people I was troubleshooting an electrical problem at work and opened this equipment box | 02:20 |
| ShadowJK | I found lots of 380V wiring connected by twisting wires around eachother and wrapping in electrical tape :) | 02:21 |
| * ShadowJK put it back very carefully and decided not to touch that shit | 02:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like US American method | 02:22 |
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| kerio | it's safe :| | 02:22 |
| kerio | electrical tape insulates | 02:22 |
| ShadowJK | the length of the wiring was about 4 times longer than what was required, so it looked like someone had basically collected the wires in his hand and started jamming it into the box until it fit, and then screwed the lid on | 02:23 |
| kerio | omg | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | Yes, well, tape starts looking brittle and fragile after 20 years, and the adhesive doesn't hold so good either :) | 02:23 |
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| ShadowJK | oh well, it's only like 40kW going through that spaghettinest :D | 02:24 |
| asj | that's what breakers are for ;) | 02:25 |
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| ShadowJK | :) | 02:25 |
| asj | (and you should be scared, I'm an electrical engineer) | 02:25 |
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| Jef91 | So for some reason my text messgaes have been randomly not showing up/randomly being removed last couple of days on my n900 | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | in New Orleans on a Media Fair, I faced those noobs over there considered our booth requirement "220V" as 3 phase 130V :-P | 02:25 |
| Jef91 | any suggestions? | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | delete all messages | 02:27 |
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| Jef91 | how docscrutinizer? | 02:27 |
| heoa | I forgot the root password to n810, is there some easy way to get it to default? How can I boot it to single mode? | 02:28 |
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| Jef91 | nvm found it | 02:28 |
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| ShadowJK | heoa, install rootsh, type sudo gainroot, passwd root ? | 02:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (new orleans) then when I asked them for 3 1:1 transformers, to build a triangle to star converter, they came along with those nasty things like a hollow cone with a thread inside - you just screw it onto the copper ends of up to 4 wires to connect them. Somewhat similar to the twist-and-isolate method | 02:30 |
| heoa | ShadowJK: Thank you. | 02:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | Wirenuts seem like a horribly bad idea. | 02:33 |
| heoa | Is there any phone by Nokia that is btw a communicator and N900? Still satisfied with 9300 but would like to get it upgraded with n810-style console | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure - in principle it is a nice gas-tight joint. | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | If done just right. | 02:33 |
| heoa | or preferrably n900 style debian things | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: wirenut - exactly :-D | 02:34 |
| ShadowJK | heoa, n900 is the only linux phone from nokia | 02:35 |
| luke-jr | and it's not even Linux or a phone! | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | :P | 02:36 |
| ShadowJK | I suspect the Communicator is dead and buried by nokia | 02:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: how is it not linux? | 02:38 |
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| ShadowJK | it's not mainline linux ;p | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | tzz | 02:39 |
| ShadowJK | and doesn't work with mainline linux | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 02:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think that description more applies to buntkuh than to maemo though | 02:39 |
| nox- | haha | 02:40 |
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| LiraNuna | did you guys check out http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/ | 03:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not exactly the trac. Why? | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | did Harald something exciting new? | 03:32 |
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| luke-jr | ugh, SMS spam now? | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | My SMS spam is limited to tmo. | 03:48 |
| SpeedEvil | tmobile that is. | 03:48 |
| tybollt | :P | 03:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: regarding the given fact there's not just the one emergency number, it's probably really complex how dialer-ui and bme and cellmo/rapuyama work together to enable 911 calls during overtemp or lowbat conditions | 03:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes. | 04:04 |
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| Jef91 | is there an app that will auto remove text messages that are X days old? | 04:04 |
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| technomike | hey guys | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | hi | 04:24 |
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| johnx | hallo | 04:42 |
| b-man|laptop | hay johnx :) | 04:44 |
| johnx | hey b-man|laptop :D | 04:44 |
| johnx | hacking on anything fun lately? | 04:44 |
| b-man|laptop | experimenting with debian on my N900 :) | 04:45 |
| johnx | fun times | 04:45 |
| GAN900 | Anybody got any fun speculation for me to stick on the mwkn summary of the N9 photos? | 04:45 |
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| b-man|laptop | http://b-man.xceleo.org/repo/nitdebian ;) | 04:45 |
| johnx | GAN900, I heard it has a fuel cell battery and it can also act as a beer keg, which can be dispensed by d-bus signal | 04:46 |
| b-man|laptop | the metapackage system is set up alot like deblet/ubuntu-n8x0, but i'm aiming to implement stuff from MeeGo :) | 04:47 |
| johnx | I think this time I might actually develop for meego | 04:47 |
| johnx | I might actually be getting burned out from the distro wars | 04:47 |
| b-man|laptop | hehe | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | GAN900: has no stylus so probably a c-ts | 04:47 |
| GAN900 | johnx, sweet! | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | backlid /battery cover is fixed by screws | 04:48 |
| johnx | Remember dbus-scripts? I think I'm actually going to try and put together a general policy layer on top of it | 04:48 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer51, this we know from the Summit. | 04:48 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer51, lol. | 04:48 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer51, I imagine that's a proto issue. ;) | 04:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | usb receptacle seems same crappy smt type | 04:49 |
| GAN900 | Hopefully that's also a proto thing. . . . | 04:49 |
| johnx | actually, that reminds me: Has anyone else lost their kickstand magnet? | 04:50 |
| b-man|laptop | MohammadAG lost his a couple of times | 04:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | GAN900: maybe there's no stereo speakers and just a combined earpiece/speaker transduced | 04:51 |
| johnx | luckily for me the glue came off but the kickstand magnet stuck to the case magnet, so I still have it | 04:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Are there any commercially available micro-USB connectors with through-hole anchors? | 04:51 |
| GAN900 | johnx, yes. | 04:52 |
| GAN900 | Although it's still magnetically attached | 04:52 |
| GAN900 | Just need some super glue. | 04:52 |
| johnx | Yeah, was thinking of busting out the super glue | 04:52 |
| johnx | that will be incredibly fiddly to fix though | 04:52 |
| GAN900 | I may just let Nokia fix it, though | 04:52 |
| * b-man|laptop hates handling super glue | 04:53 | |
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| johnx | yeah, the trick is less handling -> more applying | 04:54 |
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| b-man|laptop | johnx: btw, how is that pandora? - I've began to reconsider ordering one lol :) | 04:56 |
| * johnx sighs | 04:56 | |
| SpeedEvil | The other issue is that the socket is fundamentally not strong. | 04:56 |
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| johnx | uhm, I have to send it back to the UK to get the wifi repaired | 04:56 |
| b-man|laptop | it'd be awesome to run meego on one of those :) | 04:56 |
| johnx | that's the problem of being an early adopter | 04:56 |
| b-man|laptop | eww :( | 04:56 |
| johnx | Yeah, I am looking forward to getting meego running on it | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | It can't take significantly more force than the solder joints can support | 04:56 |
| johnx | though, now I'm thinking that a Sharp PC-Z1 really isn't that much more expensive | 04:57 |
| * johnx has learned his lesson about pre-ordering things. | 05:00 | |
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| johnx | Though, really, I *am* glad I supported them. I just hope the experience goes to getting more 'community' hardware development projects launched a bit more smoothly | 05:00 |
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| EdLin | does the N900 have Hebrew font support? | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I honestly doubt in success of 'community' hw development | 05:29 |
| johnx | EdLin, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37340&highlight=n900+hebrew | 05:31 |
| johnx | have you seen that? | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | johnx: what community-developed hardware? | 05:31 |
| johnx | luke-jr, well, I should say, community influenced hardware, created by a small business | 05:32 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, I think it's a matter of having more of the parts being "off the shelf" | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | community hw development is like community composing a symphony | 05:32 |
| johnx | I think things like the beagleboard are a big part of that | 05:32 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: the same applies equally to sw | 05:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not at all, as you can evolve sw | 05:33 |
| luke-jr | true | 05:34 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: did you comment on my concept btw? | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's like community driven development of mars rover sw, without any prior tests | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | concept? | 05:35 |
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| luke-jr | http://www.flickr.com/photos/52549449@N05/4915160604/ | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | (sw) what are the chances this sw will be right on first shot, and doesn't need a single fix? | 05:36 |
| luke-jr | nevermind the sketch bit… nobody gets it, and it's probably not ideal | 05:36 |
| EdLin | johnsu01: http://wiki.maemo.org/Hebrew_N900 - it has pretty good support, apparently. | 05:36 |
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| infobot | -sjansen | 05:36 |
| pigeon | ahha! just got my game gripper | 05:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: sounds like a nice Marketing Product Requirements Spec. Some bits are arguable, some gimmick things I'd add, but nevertheless... | 05:45 |
| SpeedEvil | pigeon: for n900? | 05:45 |
| pigeon | SpeedEvil: yeah | 05:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not vapour? Wow. | 05:45 |
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| pigeon | heh | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: what's up? | 05:46 |
| infobot | Up is the direction away from the central point of gravity. | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: what's sjansen? | 05:46 |
| infobot | sjansen is probably one hoopey frood who really knows where his towel is | 05:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | weird | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Is that supposed to show a reversible screen that folds down backwards on the keyboard for protection? | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: nope :P | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | but closer than most people got I think | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | folds down forwards, after you pull it up | 05:49 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unconvinced you can't make that better than fucking unreliable. | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | but as johnx pointed out, there is too little gain for the wasted space and wear | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | so if it ever becomes real, it would probably have a Zaurus clamshell shell | 05:50 |
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| luke-jr | -like | 05:50 |
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| johnx | hopefully it will also have a space bar :) | 05:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Also- no fucking way is that under $800 unless you get >>>1K | 05:51 |
| luke-jr | johnx: that one is ponderful | 05:51 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: not sure how to fit it in w/ the e-paper design | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: get what? | 05:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Software controlled lens cover is also complete fail. | 05:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | Many more than 1K units | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | I would hope to. if there's a market. :| | 05:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 05:53 |
| luke-jr | why no sw controlled lens cover? | 05:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Flaky. | 05:53 |
| johnx | a *motorized* lens cover? | 05:53 |
| johnx | srsly? | 05:53 |
| luke-jr | I've never had a problem? | 05:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Motorised lens covers of necessity have tiny motors. | 05:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Tiny motors have fuck-all torque, and get jammed by stuff. | 05:53 |
| johnx | like a tiny bit of sand | 05:54 |
| lpotter_ | or strawberry jam | 05:54 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 05:54 |
| asj | SpeedEvil: you just a fly wheel and some slack in the gears... ;) | 05:54 |
| SpeedEvil | All the devices I have had with sw lens covers have failed in some way | 05:54 |
| asj | (then it could duble as the vibrator) | 05:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - 12MP/5* optical zoom isn't happening. | 05:55 |
| johnx | which is why one of my favorite digicam designs was the coolpix 2100: http://www.google.com/images?q=coolpix%202500 | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: why not? | 05:55 |
| SpeedEvil | It requires a physically large package. | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | IIRC those are like $100 on TigerDirect with a smaller size | 05:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck lens cover. make that a sapphire glass which is easily changed when ever scratched | 05:55 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: what are | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: 12MP+5*zoomdigital cameras | 05:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Right. | 05:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | The camera module in the n900 is approximately 10mm*4mm*10mm | 05:56 |
| SpeedEvil | including lens. | 05:56 |
| luke-jr | it might take up half the device's thickness, but it should be doable | 05:56 |
| SpeedEvil | perhaps 6mm thick | 05:56 |
| johnx | luke-jr, anyways. prove me wrong by getting it built | 05:57 |
| luke-jr | johnx: no resources :P | 05:57 |
| SpeedEvil | The camera assembly in a 'proper' camera is more like 20*20*40 or more. | 05:57 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: for size, think N810 with double the thickness | 05:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch, a real brick then | 05:58 |
| SpeedEvil | And pop-out lenses in devices are even more of a failure than sliding lens covers. | 05:58 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: same size as C760 | 05:58 |
| SpeedEvil | I would be astonished if you could get the above out the door - the first thousand units - for a couple of million. | 05:58 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: doesn't optical zoom practically *require* a pop-out lens? | 05:58 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 05:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - no | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea bout C760 - not even the brand. But I will head over next room and place 2 N810 piggyback | 05:59 |
| SpeedEvil | It requires a variable length optical path | 05:59 |
| SpeedEvil | this is not the same | 05:59 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: let's rephrase: doesn't 5* zoom require more thickness than 2*N810? | 06:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Konica-Minolta-DiMAGE-X1-6-5-Megapixel-Digital-Camera-/130423012379?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: btw we been there, done that, some 12..18 months ago. With beyond-gta02 | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: bottom line: no resources :-P | 06:00 |
| luke-jr | :p | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The optical module in this is about 10*20*40mm or so, folded. | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The optical path is entirely inside the camera | 06:01 |
| EdLin | how well do the MMS options work on the N900? Someone loves to send me MMS messages I text with. | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | EdLin: they don't. | 06:01 |
| EdLin | luke-jr: that bad, huh? | 06:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | use mirror and 'inline optics' | 06:02 |
| microlith | you can install fMMS | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: wouldn't that take up even more space? | 06:02 |
| EdLin | microlith: fMMS will work well? | 06:02 |
| microlith | dunno, don't use MMS messages at all | 06:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | even switch/rotate mirror for can shot direction head front/back/whatever | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | fMMS didn't work at all when I tried it | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | (a few days ago) | 06:03 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: but there can be no external moving parts, which means that the moving parts can be less robust. | 06:03 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I can't imagine that is workable, but whatever | 06:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | See the above camera | 06:05 |
| luke-jr | in the space, I mean | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - that's a problem. | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | optical zoom takes a huge volume in the case. | 06:05 |
| johnx | get me a coolpix 2500 style design :) | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh when I just grabbed that stack of 2 N810, waved it in my hand, and imagined to have that brick in a belt pouch... NAH | 06:06 |
| johnx | 2x N810s would be thicker than a Cxx00 Zaurus and that's a bit of a stretch as it is | 06:06 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: who wears belts? device goes in my pocket | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 06:06 |
| johnx | you would need to ship that device with custom cargo pants :P | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | is that a washing machine in your pocket or are you just excited to meet me | 06:07 |
| luke-jr | johnx: nah | 06:07 |
| luke-jr | C760 fit just fine for me | 06:07 |
| luke-jr | could probably be thicker tbh | 06:07 |
| johnx | well, the Cxx00 is thicker still, and 2x N810s would be even worse | 06:07 |
| luke-jr | johnx: C760 and 2*N810 are equivalent | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | will rot in shelf | 06:08 |
| * johnx gets an N810 out to test | 06:08 | |
| luke-jr | N810 = 1.2cm | 06:09 |
| luke-jr | C760 = 2.4cm | 06:09 |
| luke-jr | johnx: don't forget the extra-thick battery/cover | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: you need 2 of those, you'll be surprised how much more they weigh and how much larger they are in a stack than what you thought when just extrapolating from one | 06:09 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: just extrapolating from one, I'd have thought N810*2 was thicker than C760 | 06:10 |
| luke-jr | visibly, I mean | 06:11 |
| luke-jr | also, 2x depth != 2x weight | 06:11 |
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| luke-jr | both weigh about the same IMO | 06:11 |
| luke-jr | maybe C760 is slightly heavier | 06:11 |
| johnx | so while you're making this monstrosity, could you make me a modernized SL5500 phone? | 06:13 |
| luke-jr | phones are lame | 06:14 |
| microlith | johnx: N900 is close ;) | 06:14 |
| microlith | bleh, wifi-only devices are lame | 06:14 |
| luke-jr | microlith: nowhere near | 06:14 |
| luke-jr | johnx: just use this monstrosity with a Bluetooth headset ;) | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way | 06:15 |
| johnx | microlith, yup. It's very close. But, I was one of those weirdos who actually liked having the hardware keyboard be portrait | 06:15 |
| microlith | johnx: weirdo :p | 06:15 |
| microlith | heh | 06:15 |
| johnx | the one handed usage beat the hell out of the N900 | 06:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm neither going to wear a BT headset all day and night like a freaking nerd, nor am I inclined to miss calls due to time I need to pair and 'mount' that headset | 06:16 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: get a Bluetooth headset that sits invisibly in your ear then | 06:16 |
| luke-jr | I, for one, am a proud nerd! | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | blablabla | 06:16 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: you think the $800 mark is too low even considering the lack of software costs? | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: yes | 06:17 |
| johnx | luke-jr, when you say that, this is what I hear: Give up your stereo hearing so that you can answer calls more quickly, which consists of about 1 - 3% of any given day for me | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest a decent netbook type device for you, with correctly built GPRS functionality that allows you to wear BT headset and do phonecalls | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | (too low) you bet | 06:18 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: netbooks are too big | 06:18 |
| johnx | That's like optimizing an fs driver for the case where the media has I/O errors at the cost of the normal write speed | 06:18 |
| microlith | johnx: sounds like NAND :) | 06:19 |
| johnx | microlith, heh | 06:19 |
| johnx | fair point :) | 06:19 |
| johnx | luke-jr, PC-Z1 | 06:19 |
| microlith | admittedly it's hidden behind hardware ECC and eMMC abstraction these days >_> | 06:19 |
| luke-jr | johnx: exactly, too big | 06:19 |
| johnx | so what are the dimensions on your behemoth? | 06:20 |
| luke-jr | 2*N810 :p | 06:20 |
| johnx | with a 5" screen? | 06:20 |
| johnx | or a 4"? | 06:20 |
| luke-jr | same size otherwise | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | fail | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | too small footprint for the thickness, and for a decent kbd | 06:21 |
| luke-jr | maybe make the screen itself slightly larger | 06:21 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: you say this only because you never used a C760 | 06:21 |
| johnx | admittedly the C760 was pretty chubby :P | 06:22 |
| luke-jr | C760 was perfect for its time | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf is c760 | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 06:22 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: To clarify point about price - I would be surprised if you could make 1000 for under 600K - parts and setup costs. | 06:22 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: which makes selling for 800k really, really dodgy | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even for 2 mio | 06:22 |
| SpeedEvil | that was neglecting design costs | 06:23 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, Zaurus C760 | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 06:23 |
| SpeedEvil | The mechanical engineering of that slide alone looks nasty | 06:23 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: throw the slide away and just think C760 design | 06:24 |
| luke-jr | it's good enough | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait, wasn't that a portrait device? | 06:25 |
| johnx | so, do you really think you have more hardware design experience than the pandora guys? | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: no. | 06:25 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, nah. you're thinking 5500 | 06:25 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.superwarehouse.com/Lexmark_C760/17S0000/p/445168 | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I have none. ☺ | 06:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Does not look pocket friendly. | 06:25 |
| microlith | SpeedEvil: but you get printouts on the go! | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | http://www.killingjoke.net/gra/zaurus_c760.jpg | 06:25 |
| johnx | http://www.google.com/images?q=zaurus%20c760 | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh, a laser printer :-P | 06:26 |
| SpeedEvil | That hinge looks either hellafragile, or hella expensive | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: it was $800 :P | 06:26 |
| microlith | man, the C860 had me drooling but it was so pricy at the time | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | microlith: C860 is the same as C760 except in colour and software :p | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, cya dudes | 06:26 |
| microlith | yeah but the C760 wasn't on sale in 2003 | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | I flashed the C860 bootloader just for the heck of it | 06:26 |
| johnx | later DocScrutinizer | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | :p | 06:26 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: If you are willing tro make an initial order of 50K or so, then the prices on lots of stuff goes way down. | 06:27 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: cool. | 06:27 |
| luke-jr | but probably not so far down as to make it affordable to 50k people | 06:27 |
| SpeedEvil | That's the other problem, yes. | 06:27 |
| luke-jr | now if the price could be pushed down to say $300 or so, I could see selling a lot… | 06:28 |
| luke-jr | but not at $800 ea | 06:28 |
| luke-jr | heh, maybe in Japan… | 06:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Before the n900 there was - probably - an exploitable gap in the medium-end 'smartphone/microlaptop' market. | 06:28 |
| johnx | lose the camera, lose the rediculous slider, lose some case quality, and now you've got a pandora ... | 06:28 |
| SpeedEvil | The n900 killed that market. | 06:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Largely. | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | johnx: except a Pandora is crap? :P | 06:29 |
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| luke-jr | fixed LOW amount of RAM | 06:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Pandora is crap for a reason. | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | IIRC basically no internal storage | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | slow CPU | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | etc | 06:29 |
| johnx | it's not crap *given it's history* | 06:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Take most of your specs. | 06:29 |
| johnx | I'm totally amazed they pulled it off, still | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least pandora is delivering | 06:30 |
| SpeedEvil | That's a first cut at design specs. You then go and look at what SoCs are available. | 06:30 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - seperate CPU and GPU is complete madness. | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | johnx: by the time it shipped, it was obsolete | 06:30 |
| microlith | luke-jr: but nonetheless, it shipped | 06:30 |
| johnx | luke-jr, given that yours will never ship, can I call it obsolete now? | 06:30 |
| microlith | as opposed to dying on the line | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | johnx: ☺ | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you're aware you can't take advance payment from customers and manufs insist in paying the whole lot on manuf time or even before? | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | lol | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | tell that to Pandora | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | XD | 06:31 |
| johnx | Actually, you might have been able to do something like that, except the pandora guys kinda spoiled it for you :P | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't need to - they've been there and we've been | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | johnx: yeah | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | after Pandora, nobody's going to pre-pay for something | 06:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless there is a massive name involved. | 06:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Forex - n900. | 06:33 |
| johnx | also, keep in mind that the pandora guys already had a huge amount of positive reputation with the people they were asking for money from | 06:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Pandora was gpx2? | 06:33 |
| SpeedEvil | people | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and minimum reasonable prod lot size is 10k | 06:33 |
| johnx | er, it was from the people who *re-sold* the gp2x | 06:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 06:33 |
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| luke-jr | anyhow, I'd be glad to "sell" my ideas to a big company in exchange only for the product :P | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 06:34 |
| SpeedEvil | There is nothing innovative there to sell IMO. | 06:34 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 06:34 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a shopping list of obviously nice features. | 06:34 |
| SpeedEvil | That's not a sensible design unless it's fleshed out. | 06:35 |
| SpeedEvil | And you can't do that easily from where you are. | 06:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and any huge manuf will tell ya gtfo we got our own shopping lists | 06:35 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - you can't get docs to choose between mobile chipsets. | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | obviously no existing mobile chipsets can fit the bill | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | unless Qualcomm opens that r300-based GPU | 06:36 |
| johnx | SpeedEvil, it's ok. his choice is pretty much the OMAP34xx anyways :) | 06:36 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: Sure. | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | johnx: OMAP34xx couldn't come close | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | OMAP4 maybe, but not unless PowerVR gets opened | 06:36 |
| johnx | or 35xx or whatever one is made to be sold in "small" quanitities | 06:36 |
| SpeedEvil | john: but - if the above came out in 2 years time - it's gonna look vrery slow | 06:36 |
| johnx | SpeedEvil, it looks slow today :) but I don't think he has much choice | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | *yawn* and l8r | 06:37 |
| SpeedEvil | wave | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | johnx: dual core 1 GHz is plenty for most people | 06:37 |
| johnx | 'night DocScrutinizer :) | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | and some website said it's faster than Atoms :p | 06:37 |
| johnx | luke-jr, yeah, but you cant buy that chipset in small enough quantity | 06:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Saying 'dual core 1ghz' doesn't make one magically appear | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: there's a couple already | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | Qualcomm and TI at least have one | 06:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Orderable in quantities of 10K? | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | nfc | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | irrelevant to whatever big company might make it | 06:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 06:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Your best bet is probably to wander round china. | 06:39 |
| luke-jr | well then I'll just use a Loongson MIPS SoC | 06:39 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 06:39 |
| microlith | mmm, performance 10 years behind the times! | 06:39 |
| luke-jr | :p | 06:40 |
| johnx | well it maybe be slow, but at least it has poor power management! | 06:40 |
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| johnx | errr...wait | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: you've got plenty of barriers for *me* to ever make it… but I never intended to make it | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | I just want some big company to make it | 06:41 |
| luke-jr | why won't they? | 06:41 |
| microlith | because they have to report quarterly profits | 06:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Because your shopping list of features is uninteresting. | 06:41 |
| johnx | luke-jr, step in line and prepare to pre-order the Nokia N9, citizen-consumer | 06:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Much like I want a 4:3 monitor, and a new 4:3 laptop | 06:41 |
| luke-jr | johnx: why? looks useless | 06:41 |
| johnx | luke-jr, because it will actually come to market | 06:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Uninteresting to the corporate world that is. | 06:42 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: corporate world doesn't use over half the list of replaced devices? | 06:42 |
| luke-jr | or you mean just from the standpoint that they can make more profit from cheaper devices? | 06:43 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | and they're too buried in money to think they might want to do something for their own personal use? | 06:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Real men don't use computers. | 06:44 |
| luke-jr | yet another bug in capitalism | 06:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Real men have people to do that for them. | 06:44 |
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| N900foreva | any news on meego on n900? | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | they got secretaries to do that kinda tedious boring shit for them | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: :-D | 06:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Extreme platforms come from basically either startups that can blow shitloads of VC money and then typically fold. | 06:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Or from large makers that can offer a 'premium' line alongside their regular line at 5-10* the price | 06:45 |
| johnx | or from large companies doing experiments that are designed to attract a certain kind of user, with the hope of possibly being made profitable later | 06:46 |
| SpeedEvil | And can plow back some of the money from the lower lines into subsidising dev of the premium -as the technolog from it will slowly filter down into the main lines over the years | 06:46 |
| johnx | (aka 770 / N8x0) | 06:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 06:47 |
| luke-jr | johnx: but that's the low end of "extreme platforms" :P | 06:47 |
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| johnx | and then there are total geeks who sneak into high positions in companies and create Linux-based pocket dictionaries :> | 06:47 |
| johnx | aka zaurus | 06:48 |
| luke-jr | kinda explains why Sharp killed it | 06:48 |
| luke-jr | ☹ | 06:48 |
| N900foreva | will there be PR 1.3 ? | 06:48 |
| luke-jr | N900foreva: if you go to sleep, you might dream it | 06:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Okaaaaaay. | 06:49 |
| johnx | N900foreva, there was going to be, but they said if one more person asked about it, they'd cancel it. So you just spoiled it for everyone | 06:49 |
| N900foreva | ok...so n900 is oficially abandonware then | 06:49 |
| SpeedEvil | http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087¤t-category-id=3B10ECA8EB78454180D484668504D02E | 06:49 |
| johnx | N900foreva, people are working on Meego | 06:49 |
| johnx | Maemo 5 is abandonware | 06:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Someone inhaling a little deeply there I think. | 06:50 |
| N900foreva | but there will be no meego for n900 | 06:50 |
| microlith | not a Nokia Official release | 06:51 |
| luke-jr | N900foreva: yes there will | 06:51 |
| johnx | SpeedEvil, terrifyingly, I could actually see that being used for pitching products | 06:51 |
| microlith | but unofficially, yes | 06:51 |
| johnx | N900foreva, why won't there be? | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900foreva: please stop stating FUD and nonsense as facts | 06:51 |
| N900foreva | how good will it be...this unoficial shit? | 06:51 |
| johnx | N900foreva, help us and it might be really good | 06:51 |
| N900foreva | did you guys see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioNjJzNUZ4A&feature=player_embedded#! | 06:52 |
| N900foreva | its in chinese or some other shit but kinda interesting | 06:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders what a troll like that one wants from meego, while calling 'nonofficial' shit :-S | 06:53 | |
| luke-jr | N900foreva: Nokia is paying people to make MeeGo work on N900 | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's nothing better than proprietary supported FOSS - or what? | 06:53 |
| N900foreva | in that chinese video meego is really slow.. | 06:53 |
| johnx | N900foreva, that | 06:54 |
| johnx | that is generally the way pre-alpha software looks | 06:54 |
| N900foreva | i know,,,,just sayin | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | 'just saying' is remarkably close to "just trolling for fun" | 06:55 |
| N900foreva | DocScrutinizer: open your mind my friend... it doesnt hurt to liesten to others | 06:56 |
| johnx | as long as there's something to listen to ... | 06:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I hurts my nerves to listen (and monitor) all the noise in this tiny channel | 06:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | N900foreva: general policy here is we aren't interested in noise | 06:57 |
| N900foreva | DocScutinizer: if you dont like the openess of the internet may I suggest taking on a different hobby? | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | and opinions are like assholes, everybody got one | 06:57 |
| johnx | N900foreva, if you want to be annoying, start your own channel | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900foreva: may I suggest to you to respect channel policy | 06:57 |
| N900foreva | am I not Doc? | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | to use your nice wording: just saying it smells like trolling | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I got some reputation over the last few weeks to hate trolling | 06:59 |
| ColdFyre | i like trolls with pink hair | 06:59 |
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| N900foreva | thats too bad... sometimes trollers have some valid points... | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | we aren't interested | 07:00 |
| N900foreva | DocScrutinizer: who is "we" ? | 07:00 |
| microlith | rarely does a troll have a -new- or -insightful- point | 07:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | the channel | 07:00 |
| johnx | N900foreva, him and me | 07:00 |
| N900foreva | we? | 07:00 |
| microlith | mostly they just hammer on some old-hat thing or get rude | 07:00 |
| N900foreva | DocScrutinizer: so you want this channel to be a love fest? | 07:01 |
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| microlith | N900foreva: putting some thought in your statements (and reading up on the subject at hand) helps enormously :) | 07:01 |
| johnx | the problem with trolling, is that even if a troll has a valid point, their way of expressing it is usually so distracting and divisive that nothing useful comes out of the discussion (argument) | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900foreva: I explained to you about general chammel policy and you can read the topic. I'm not going to continue this nonsense conversation | 07:02 |
| N900foreva | guys... dont you think...and please dont take it the wrong way... dont you think you should get off your high horse sometimes? | 07:02 |
| johnx | N900foreva, about what? | 07:02 |
| ColdFyre | is it absurd to expect that being logged into skype on the n900 would not have the ability to reduce the battery life by ~75%? | 07:03 |
| N900foreva | its interesting how some people are totaly disgusted with this community....especially TMO | 07:03 |
| SpeedEvil | ColdFyre: yes | 07:03 |
| johnx | N900foreva, You mean why don't we all just go around complaining about the lack of PR1.3 and bitching about the lack of an official Meego for the N900? | 07:03 |
| johnx | yeah, that sounds productive | 07:04 |
| johnx | why didn't I think of that? | 07:04 |
| N900foreva | ColdFyre: forget skype on n900.... it eats battery like hell... | 07:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ColdFyre: skype is p2p | 07:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ColdFyre: 3G modems _suck_ power when asked to do constant activity. | 07:04 |
| ColdFyre | stupid question, would the number of contacts make a difference? | 07:04 |
| N900foreva | my n900 lasts about 6 hours....thats without skype | 07:05 |
| disco_stuIPV6 | is the n900 ipv6 enabled ? | 07:05 |
| N900foreva | battery life isnt n900's strongest suite | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | waitwaitwaitwaitwait | 07:05 |
| ColdFyre | and SpeedEvil oddly i get the same battery life with skype using gsm/3g/wifi | 07:05 |
| GAN900 | johnx, it's certainly ones right as a consumer, though. | 07:06 |
| N900foreva | ColdFyre: number of contacts does not matter....skype is simply badly implemented on the n900 | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900foreva sounds friggin like n900lova n900hater, dunno what other nicks he burned with a ban | 07:07 |
| johnx | GAN900, ah, I must have stumbled into the consumers' channel. Could you direct me to the hackers' channel? | 07:07 |
| johnx | :> | 07:07 |
| ColdFyre | how could it be badly implemented? | 07:07 |
| N900foreva | ColdFyre: dont know mate | 07:07 |
| N900foreva | Just trying to help you | 07:07 |
| SpeedEvil | But, you're not. | 07:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Saying 'it doesn't work because it doesn't work' doesn't help anyone. | 07:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | disco_stuIPV6: there's an experimental IPv6 stack for N900 somewhere | 07:09 |
| N900foreva | ColdFyre: i dont know what to tell you mate... all i know is skype sucks battery on my n900... the fanbois here might disagree and crucify me....just expressing my own experience | 07:09 |
| johnx | I don't think anyone disagrees that skype drinks battery life out of the N900 | 07:10 |
| microlith | 3G is a huge battery eater, just having skype active hasn't impacted my device's life on 2.5G | 07:10 |
| johnx | I wonder what the experience is on other devices ... | 07:10 |
| N900foreva | i dont see a difference between wlan and 3g to be honest | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900foreva: warning for offense against general channel members (fanbois) | 07:11 |
| N900foreva | Doc: i said "might" and "Some"....thats an offense? Are you denying there are N900 supporters in this channel? | 07:12 |
| microlith | N900foreva: why is it that everyone with a criticizm agains the N900 feels a need to insult or attack even -some- members of the N900 userbase? | 07:12 |
| microlith | criticism* | 07:13 |
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| N900foreva | huh? | 07:13 |
| microlith | just go read the forums, you'll see | 07:13 |
| N900foreva | ok | 07:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm more and more convinced N900foreva == n900lova | 07:13 |
| N900foreva | i gave up on TM) | 07:13 |
| N900foreva | TMO | 07:14 |
| johnx | N900foreva, so now you're trying to bring this channel to TMO's level? | 07:14 |
| N900foreva | no... | 07:14 |
| N900foreva | ever since nokia moved on to intel and meego this community has been in disarray and there are some very edgy individuals...which is understandable | 07:15 |
| johnx | N900foreva, yes. there have been edgy individuals and more and more trolls | 07:16 |
| N900foreva | define a "troll" folks....I'm listening | 07:16 |
| johnx | someone who purposefully tries to stir up trouble | 07:16 |
| N900foreva | johnx: specifics please | 07:17 |
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| microlith | he defined a troll | 07:17 |
| microlith | everything else is just methods | 07:17 |
| sandst1 | "the fanbois here might disagree and crucify me.... | 07:17 |
| sandst1 | " | 07:17 |
| sandst1 | that's kinda an engadget comment | 07:17 |
| johnx | trouble, as in, disagreement, reprisal, etc | 07:17 |
| N900foreva | "stir up trouble".... by having a preference or opinion different from yours? dont you think you learn and advance by listening to others? isnt that how humanity advances? | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=n900lova | 07:18 |
| johnx | Usually trolls have nothing new to say, but manage to phrase it in the way most likely to annoy other people and 'push their buttons' | 07:18 |
| N900foreva | DocScrutinizer: what are you trying to prove mr Sherlock Holmes? | 07:19 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o johnx | 07:19 | |
| N900foreva | N900lover was not me | 07:19 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o microlith | 07:19 | |
| *** microlith sets mode: -o microlith | 07:19 | |
| N900foreva | ok...folks...im not trying to cause trouble... i want an intelligent discussion.... | 07:20 |
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| sandst1 | drop stuff like "it's in chinese or some other shit" and we're on teh way to a nicer discussion | 07:21 |
| johnx | N900foreva, about what? | 07:22 |
| N900foreva | everything | 07:22 |
| johnx | N900foreva, so you're here to try and get involved in maemo/meego development? | 07:23 |
| N900foreva | no...been there, done that | 07:23 |
| johnx | Well, if you're after insider info on the future of Maemo/Meego on the N900, the first place to look probably *is* t.m.o | 07:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [N900lova] ok... i jus wanna have a discussion...no harm intended peeps | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | <N900foreva> ok...folks...im not trying to cause trouble... i want an intelligent discussion.... | 07:25 |
| N900foreva | huh? | 07:25 |
| N900foreva | guys....why cant you have some fun sometimes and let loose? isnt the world too serious as it is? DocScrutinizer: I am looking at you too | 07:26 |
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| johnx | "let loose"? Now it's your turn to define what that means. Do you want someone to play checkers against or ... ? | 07:28 |
| N900foreva | nah....just joke and poke fun | 07:28 |
| EdLin | I don't hear anyone laughing | 07:29 |
| N900foreva | that's what i mean....maybe we should be laughing more often? | 07:29 |
| * johnx is waiting for the joke :) | 07:29 | |
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| EdLin | You know why they call weight "weight"? Because you have to wait so long before it changes! Good joke? | 07:32 |
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| N900foreva | lol | 07:33 |
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| flux | edlin, I think it would be made even better if you explained it! | 07:34 |
| EdLin | flux: say "wait" and "weight" aloud, hopefully you'll get it. | 07:34 |
| flux | any joke can be enhanced by explaining it in excruciating detail | 07:34 |
| flux | OH WAI, right! hah. haa. | 07:34 |
| EdLin | flux: the more times you tell a joke, the funnier it gets. | 07:35 |
| johnx | flux, it might also be good to include a brief history of the joke's origins | 07:35 |
| EdLin | the origins? Me. | 07:35 |
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| johnx | maybe throw in some notes on the etymology of the words that form the pun | 07:35 |
| spinningcompass | homophones are tricky | 07:36 |
| johnx | I think you could probably get a 50 minute lecture out of that one | 07:36 |
| EdLin | spinningcompass: a homophone is a pink phone owned by a male. | 07:36 |
| spinningcompass | EdLin: You're thinking of an iPhone. | 07:36 |
| EdLin | spinningcompass: I knew someone would say that. :P | 07:36 |
| * spinningcompass hits a cymbal | 07:37 | |
| N900foreva | goodnight folks | 07:37 |
| johnx | 'night N900foreva | 07:37 |
| johnx | come back for more jokes :) | 07:37 |
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| sandst1 | night | 07:37 |
| EdLin | night | 07:38 |
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| EdLin | note that he used the web gateway, probably to avoid an ip ban. | 07:39 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o johnx | 07:40 | |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, was trying to figure out how to do that :) | 07:40 |
| johnx | <- IRC n00b | 07:40 |
| EdLin | johnx: I knew my jokes would make him leave. :) | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | /mode #maemo -o johnx | 07:41 |
| EdLin | they're known to clear out entire rooms of people. | 07:41 |
| johnx | I bet he's sitting ther thinking. "Jeez. They really *are* a bunch of boring nerds O_o" :) | 07:41 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, thanks :) | 07:41 |
| EdLin | johnx: some clients can just use /deop | 07:41 |
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| EdLin | /deop EdLin | 07:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | just /opm here ;-) | 07:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and /dopm | 07:42 |
| EdLin | DocScrutinizer: which client, irssi? | 07:43 |
| johnx | If I had to ban him, I'd have had to look up the proper form for the pattern :D | 07:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | custom command, defined in Konversation | 07:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /kickban n900foreva*!*@* | 07:43 |
| EdLin | DocScrutinizer: oh, I should write that one, except I'm only an op on one channel, and an ircop on a trouble-free small network, so not worth the effort. | 07:44 |
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| johnx | ah, right, since he's on the web gateway :) I probably would have accidentally banned the web gateway ... | 07:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 07:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | no worries, we had to do that several times | 07:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's that prog called which identifies authors by analyzing the diction and used words? | 07:46 |
| EdLin | DocScrutinizer: are there any IRC clients for the latest Maemo that use the normal interface? I have xchat on my n810 but it's basically the normal xchat shrunk to a small screen. | 07:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's 'normal interface' for you? | 07:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | hildonized? | 07:47 |
| EdLin | DocScrutinizer: yeah | 07:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, pidgin seems fully hildonnized but I hate it. xchat for fremantle is rather nice, though not really hildonized | 07:48 |
| EdLin | if not, maybe that would be a good first project for me on the n900. Though I've never written an irc client before. That is, if I manage to save pennies to get an n900 as I've planned. | 07:48 |
| johnx | might be best to just properly hildonize xchat | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | the only things I'm missing in n900 xchat is an easy way to zoom fontsize (like in xterm), and finger friendly scrolling | 07:49 |
| johnx | or possibly clean up the interface to some Qt IRC client | 07:49 |
| EdLin | johnx: yeah, hildonizing xchat would be a good idea too. | 07:50 |
| johnx | best not to reinvent the wheel :) | 07:50 |
| * johnx goes back to reinventing the wheel | 07:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 07:50 |
| EdLin | it's not really so painful using xchat on the n810, come to think of it, just inelegant. | 07:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | EdLin: on n900 i'm really quite happy with it, since I mapped sh-up/down to scroll | 07:51 |
| EdLin | nice | 07:51 |
| EdLin | scrolling is the worst part | 07:51 |
| johnx | on the N800 I used that theme that made all the scroll bars huge | 07:52 |
| johnx | makes a big difference in usability | 07:52 |
| sandst1 | N800 was a 'bit' stylus optimized :) | 07:53 |
| EdLin | johnx: do you remember what the theme is called? It's probably on the n810 too. | 07:54 |
| johnx | sandst1, I bought mine open box. Never had a stylus until 2009-ish and I had it since a couple weeks after launch | 07:54 |
| johnx | EdLin, let me find it. one sec | 07:54 |
| asj | johnx: hildonize ksirc :) | 07:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, N8x0 had a menu button - something N900 is painfully missing | 07:55 |
| johnx | yeah. that was awfully nice | 07:55 |
| johnx | I used camkeyd for a while | 07:55 |
| EdLin | DocScrutinizer: I love all of the buttons on my n810. :) | 07:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia MMI designers thoroughly spoiled that one for N900 | 07:56 |
| t_s_o | how very odd, for some reason the time and date of my N800 had reset it self to 25 april 2008 | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 07:56 |
| t_s_o | at around 22:something | 07:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | removed battery? | 07:57 |
| johnx | EdLin, just remembered. It was called echowb. I think it's on t.m.o | 07:57 |
| EdLin | johnx: thanks | 07:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | t_s_o: you should check hwclock | 07:58 |
| johnx | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=157491 | 07:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | see if it's system time or RTC that got 'reset' | 07:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw: BUG - maemo fremantle writes back system time to RTC on shutdown | 07:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf is every system maintainer convinced sysclock is better than RTC? | 08:00 |
| johnx | err, if you run ntpd, doesn't that change get made to sysclock | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's just one moment where I'd consider systime better than RTC time, that's when systime is adjusted by NTP, GPS or even user interaction | 08:01 |
| johnx | so write it back then, and then skip the write-back at shutdown? | 08:02 |
| johnx | I'd buy that | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | the very moment it actually gets adjusted | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: exactly | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: that's what I edit all my machines to do | 08:02 |
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| t_s_o | rtc seems to still follow utc or whatever its called | 08:02 |
| johnx | t_s_o, as is right and proper | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | t_s_o: nod | 08:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | t_s_o: so just do a `hwclock --hctosys` | 08:03 |
| t_s_o | if i had that installed ;) | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | t_s_o: and thanks for confirming my point as elaborated above :-D | 08:03 |
| Trizt | wow, I won UK£1M thanks to Nokia ;) http://pastebin.com/DVdAqYhe | 08:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm, yeah | 08:05 |
| t_s_o | i do wonder tho what caused the reset in the first place | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | runaway process messing up system time | 08:05 |
| t_s_o | possibly | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously a process with root permissions | 08:05 |
| t_s_o | i have also seen the first couple of icons in the statusbar go missing from what appears to be a graphical "glitch", not sure if its related or not... | 08:06 |
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| t_s_o | bah, why is it that mobile seems to have turn google crazy? not only can the archos 5 not have market because its not a phone, to access the free apps on market one need a gmail account, one once set can only be changed with a full reset of the device its set on | 08:16 |
| t_s_o | i sure hope there will be some 4-5" screen size non-phone devices using meego, or the world will have become a less interesting place | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | i have a 7" non-phone device using meego | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | (my joggler) | 08:18 |
| johnx | possibly the culture of the company they absorbed that had written android? | 08:18 |
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| t_s_o | Stskeeps: while interesting, its still a x86 device, not a arm device (sorry that i didnt include that detail earlier) | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: admittedly | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | i like to be arch agnostic | 08:22 |
| t_s_o | johnx: or at least its leaders. android seems to be danger 2.0 in a way | 08:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if only the arch would be agnostic for the OS :-D | 08:23 |
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| t_s_o | tho i guess google is also trying to please the carriers so that they will accept android based products into their lineups | 08:23 |
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| t_s_o | Stskeeps: sure, i'm just kinda tired of x86, thats all. One x86 based product seems to be other alike. | 08:23 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, most agnostics are really just atheists who don't feel like arguing :> | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | that too | 08:24 |
| ColdFyre | maemo 6 release date for the n900 is sept 13 o_o | 08:25 |
| t_s_o | maemo 6? | 08:26 |
| johnx | ColdFyre, wat? | 08:26 |
| ColdFyre | 2011 | 08:26 |
| Stskeeps | ColdFyre: [citation needed] | 08:26 |
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| t_s_o | another issue is that i would love to see arm act as a open field, rather then tied to the whims of intel and microsoft. But instead it seems to become the whims of carriers and google... | 08:27 |
| Stskeeps | things are improving in arm field, at least | 08:27 |
| johnx | t_s_o, to be fair, I'm pretty confident that in the long run android will have a positive effect on driver support in the linux kernel | 08:28 |
| johnx | even if things seem rocky right now | 08:28 |
| t_s_o | well, linaro brings hope, but how long will it take, and how much more ingranined will android have become by then | 08:28 |
| ColdFyre | imagine if xeons were made low enough power to use in mobile devices | 08:28 |
| * Trizt likes to see some Power 7 based devices | 08:28 | |
| t_s_o | johnx: not as long as google seems to pay zero attention to the decisions related to the main kernel tree | 08:28 |
| * raster tries to imagine his old dual xeon 450 from 1999 with its heatsinks 5x the tickness of the n900 | 08:29 | |
| t_s_o | Trizt: or perhaps more mips, like that nanonote? | 08:29 |
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| Trizt | I'm a more of a PowerPC/Power kind of person | 08:30 |
| johnx | ColdFyre, they'd be called atoms | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | steampunk mobile devices, a 80286 smartphone | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:30 |
| t_s_o | johnx: complete with a nuclear fission mode? | 08:31 |
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| raster | and each heatsink EACH was 5x the thicnkess | 08:32 |
| raster | xeon itself was 1-2x thicker | 08:32 |
| raster | and 2 of them | 08:32 |
| raster | :) | 08:32 |
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| raster | t_s_o: linaro is doing positive things | 08:33 |
| raster | tho intel (and meego) likely wont like it | 08:33 |
| t_s_o | time will tell, but in the meantime i'm bored (and perhaps a bit sleepy) | 08:33 |
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| Stskeeps | raster: what won't we like? | 08:33 |
| Stskeeps | besides the fact linaro is a rather uncertain being, they seem to have their heads screwed okay on | 08:34 |
| raster | well linaro is in a way getting the arm worlds act together | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | .. except for basing anything production on ubuntu ;) | 08:34 |
| raster | eg devidetree for kernel | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | and? we have meego arm as well | 08:34 |
| raster | universal arm soc kernels | 08:34 |
| raster | better toolchains and so on | 08:34 |
| raster | yes | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | better toolchains - work in gcc? | 08:35 |
| raster | thats a necessity | 08:35 |
| raster | not a desire | 08:35 |
| raster | itel are into meego for the aim oif pushing atom | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | probably, and people are welcome to contribute to meegoa rm | 08:35 |
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| raster | and linaro is trying to get the linux arm shit together specifically to fight atom | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | what better way to fight than to make ARM as easy as x86 to develop for? | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:36 |
| raster | and sugar-coating either meego or linaro as anythgin else is just avoding the truth | 08:36 |
| raster | :) | 08:36 |
| Trizt | raster; do they have a money rich backup? | 08:36 |
| raster | Stskeeps: thats kind of the idea | 08:36 |
| raster | but on the other side4 linaro is bound deeply to canonical and cubuntu | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | that one always wondered me a bit | 08:37 |
| raster | (though thats not really that widely publicised) | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | frankly, if they defined linaro as 'organisation ARM SoC can push money into to have people contribute to open source projects upstream | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | then it'd be a lot easier to understand | 08:37 |
| raster | which also makes it a direct competitor to meego too | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | kinda like lobbying through code | 08:37 |
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| raster | so both on the hw platform and the distro platform its "all out war" | 08:37 |
| raster | the only bits they agree on are core os infra | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | some war | 08:38 |
| raster | (linxu kernel in generla, glibc, x11, dbus etc.) | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | ARM is clearly the winner | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | though I guess Intel has 3D accel | 08:38 |
| raster | everything else is pretty much diametrically opposed :( | 08:38 |
| Stskeeps | raster: i am worried that their focus on ubuntu might be their fail too | 08:38 |
| t_s_o | until nvidia gets tegra2 into actual production, if ever | 08:38 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, why focus on packaging -at all-? | 08:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:38 |
| Stskeeps | focus on providing drivers for different targets, meego, ubuntu, android | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | t_s_o: nVidia doesn't seem interested in making a real effort afaik | 08:39 |
| raster | Trizt: linaro.org - it has moneyed backing | 08:39 |
| raster | luke-jr: what 3d accel? intel gfx? hahahahahhaha | 08:39 |
| Stskeeps | and being the central provider for these things | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | raster: better than nothing | 08:39 |
| t_s_o | luke-jr: right now, everything not related to x86 and windows seems to be basically smoke and mirrors to get intel or microsoft to "behave" | 08:39 |
| raster | (i965, and friends) | 08:39 |
| raster | luke-jr: thats not embedded by a long shot | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | t_s_o: uh? | 08:39 |
| raster | intel license imgtec for atom | 08:40 |
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| raster | because tyhey dont have anything of their own | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | ok, so nobody really has 3D | 08:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder what'd have been the effecrt if intel hadn't ditched strongarm | 08:40 |
| raster | not for embedded | 08:40 |
| Stskeeps | raster: how do you see the linaro effort from your project pov? | 08:40 |
| raster | there are 3 gpu's i know of | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | so ARM has already won | 08:40 |
| t_s_o | luke-jr: basically, tegra2 is nvidia hinting to intel that they can make a rival platform if intel do not relent on the ion issue. While meego is intel going "hey microsoft, wanna support atom?) | 08:40 |
| t_s_o | " | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | cuz Atom sucks | 08:40 |
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| raster | imgtec (most of them - mbc/sgx), arm (mali series) and the former ati gpu (qualcomm's gpu now) | 08:40 |
| raster | the otehr day i saw some amd one on an imx51 | 08:41 |
| raster | i dont knwo what that is tho | 08:41 |
| raster | so i'll not comment until i know more | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | meego != intel, just for what it's worth | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | raster: i.MX51 is Qualcomm's | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | which is some variant of Radeon r300 | 08:41 |
| raster | but its performance was so poor - i suspect it was the same as qualcomm's on the snapdragon | 08:41 |
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| Stskeeps | intel might be agressive, but they're not blocking arm in meego | 08:41 |
| t_s_o | Stskeeps: i will belive it when i see a official nokia meego firmware ready to install on the n900 for ordinary users | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: uhm, wtf does that have to do with meego.com? | 08:42 |
| raster | Stskeeps: tyhere more to be done than just drive3rs. | 08:42 |
| raster | theres integration and packaging | 08:42 |
| raster | thing slike just fixing up booting for example | 08:42 |
| luke-jr | t_s_o: there would be if Nokia wasn't blocking it | 08:42 |
| raster | frankly things li4ek systemd seem the right way to go | 08:42 |
| raster | and thats really invasive into a distro etc. | 08:42 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: nokia has decided not to make a official firmware, but this doesn't mean serious resources aren't going into meego ARM. | 08:42 |
| raster | oh yeah | 08:43 |
| raster | forgot about tegra2 | 08:43 |
| raster | right now tho its a bit of an outlier | 08:43 |
| luke-jr | t_s_o: Nokia is fighting opening things | 08:43 |
| raster | as its totally bound to nvidia's arm soc that has dropped things like neon | 08:43 |
| raster | and its also HUGE | 08:43 |
| t_s_o | and yet there are zero arm releases but multiple x86 releases (specifically atom related releases, so no dice on older non-intel hardware, but thats a side-story) | 08:43 |
| raster | no way that can go in its current packaging into a phone | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: boo | 08:43 |
| t_s_o | so right now outwards meego looks like moblin with a fresh coat of paint | 08:44 |
| raster | Stskeeps: as for linaro - i like the idea. frankly until nokia decided to get in bed with meego it would have been a big plus for maemo | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: zero, what? | 08:44 |
| raster | but as sucvh now meego and linaro are diametrically opposed distros | 08:44 |
| raster | :( | 08:44 |
| luke-jr | meh | 08:44 |
| luke-jr | just use Gentoo | 08:44 |
| raster | lets see how it all turns out | 08:44 |
| spinningcompass | As long as it supports PyQt, I'm happy. | 08:45 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: docz! | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | raster: i think there's a lot of collaboration on ARM side to be made, personally | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | raster: oh, funny question | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | raster: what is your opinion of what GLESv2 applications should link against on ARM? /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so or /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 ? | 08:46 |
| Stskeeps | second one is acceptable in normal packaging guidelines | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | … | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | source code binds to the .so, binaries link with the specific version | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | the .2 signifies binary compatibility | 08:47 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr: except the .so only appears in -devel packages | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | makes sense | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | kinda | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | so the files include a link to .2 | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | … | 08:48 |
| raster | Stskeeps: oh in general i think so (collaboration) | 08:48 |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: compiler/linker makes the change from .so to .so.2 | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: because of SONAME | 08:48 |
| raster | but in the end the business reality is that neither side is going to want to fund something that doesnt better their own cause (or is neutral) | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | compile scripts just refer to .so | 08:49 |
| raster | so business-wise there is a clash coming | 08:49 |
| raster | the question is - how is it going to be dealt with | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: problem is, SONAME is .so on GLESv2 | 08:49 |
| raster | as for gl-es - well the version is already in the soname | 08:50 |
| Stskeeps | the .2? | 08:50 |
| raster | there is little need to repeat it in the soversion major # | 08:50 |
| raster | tho the v2 honestly should never have been there | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: they should link to libGL.so :D | 08:50 |
| Stskeeps | the reason i'm asking is because mesa libEGL/libGLESv2 forces .so.1/so.2 | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | actually no | 08:50 |
| raster | but thats also a fault of the gles2.x vs 2.0 standards body | 08:50 |
| Stskeeps | which is what most people will link against | 08:50 |
| luke-jr | libGLESv2.so could be a link to libGL.so, but not vice-versa | 08:51 |
| raster | so there is little choice but to put it in the link line explicitly | 08:51 |
| Stskeeps | raster: my personal view is that ARM is partly at fault for missing the boat on moving from being an embedded shop to mobile computing.. so all the environments and licenses center around typical embedded business, like, OE, weird cross compilers, pay-per-device hardware licensing.. | 08:51 |
| raster | but as such i'd say it should link to /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so at compile time | 08:51 |
| raster | and that is a symlinkt to the real versioned so | 08:51 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: erm… OE began with mobile computing | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | we're moving to link to /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 in meego and linaro, at least | 08:52 |
| raster | and well i suspect that is so.1.x.x | 08:52 |
| raster | or | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: it's still a very embedded mindset and not for the faint at heart | 08:52 |
| raster | .so.1 | 08:52 |
| raster | ie they have a single unbroken api for gles-2.0 | 08:52 |
| * luke-jr remembers when OE was known as OpenZaurus ☺ | 08:52 | |
| raster | imho glesv2 should have the usual | 08:53 |
| raster | /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so -> libGLESv2.so.1 | 08:53 |
| raster | libGLESv2.so.1 -> libGLESv2.so.1.1 | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | OE :-/ | 08:54 |
| raster | libGLESv2.so.1.1 -> libGLESv2.so.1.1.15.2856 | 08:54 |
| raster | and the /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so is only in the dev packages | 08:54 |
| raster | so binaries come out linking to libGLESv2.so.1 | 08:54 |
| Stskeeps | raster: agreed | 08:54 |
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| Stskeeps | i am still not sure why it's .2 on libGLESv2. | 08:54 |
| raster | i dont see that it should have a major so.2.x | 08:54 |
| raster | why is it 2? | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html FWIW | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | mesa decided it was so, it seems | 08:55 |
| raster | imgtec disagrees | 08:55 |
| raster | :) | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems lib devels never learn to get their vrsioning sorted | 08:55 |
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| Stskeeps | raster: funny fact - reason why they don't do that is because their build system is so broken a proper SONAME can't be set.. | 08:56 |
| raster | ? | 08:56 |
| raster | imgtec? | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 08:57 |
| raster | never looked | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | even moorestown SGX went for just symlinking | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:57 |
| raster | as such i tont think its imgtec's issue | 08:57 |
| raster | as they just leave it up to vendors to customise their src | 08:57 |
| raster | ie rebuild it | 08:57 |
| raster | who provided the libGLESv2.so ? | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | hm? usually SoC vendor | 08:58 |
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| raster | its the soc vendors fault then | 08:58 |
| raster | not imgtec | 08:58 |
| raster | or even then | 08:58 |
| raster | not soc vendor | 08:58 |
| raster | likely device vendor | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | well, code stems from imgtec | 08:59 |
| raster | eg - for n900 nokia will build the gles libs and drivers | 08:59 |
| raster | its nokias fault | 08:59 |
| Stskeeps | problem stems from the code used though | 08:59 |
| raster | dont think so | 08:59 |
| raster | my glesv2's have a proper version | 08:59 |
| raster | it happens to be 1.1.... | 09:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (<raster> its nokias fault) now *that* sounds somewhat familiar :-P | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | raster: so does moorestown sgx, except there's a symlink to .so.2, heh | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | .. ducttape galore | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nokia doesn't exactly have any noticeable record of being particularly gifted system maintainers | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 09:02 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 09:02 |
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| Stskeeps | we're going to start the morning with an optification discussion. really? | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:03 |
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| raster | Stskeeps: morestown i believe was provided by precision insight - intel hired them to do a different driver impl. | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | just felt like quoting another duct tape botch | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | raster: hm? looks like pretty ordinary sgx to me | 09:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or: [2010-08-23 06:59:24] <DocScrutinizer> btw: BUG - maemo fremantle writes back system time to RTC on shutdown | 09:05 |
| Stskeeps | how is that a bug? | 09:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | though thats heritage | 09:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sysclock never is better than RTC, on system shutdown | 09:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hwclock needs to be adjusted *only* when some startum<low> time source is *adjusting* the system time | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | never(1) on shutdown | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/1/! | 09:07 |
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| raster | Stskeeps: thats my understanding. as opposed with going with the normal imgtec provided drivers they paid precisaion insight to do new ones | 09:08 |
| raster | maybe thats an earlier atom with the sgx | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | almost all disros got that wrong, at least by default. Some allow to disable that nonsense via sysconfig/ | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | raster: that's probably gma500 you're thinking of | 09:08 |
| raster | i may be mixing it up as too many codenames etc. floating aboiut | 09:08 |
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| raster | ahhh ok | 09:08 |
| raster | gma500 | 09:08 |
| raster | that rings a bell | 09:08 |
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| raster | brb | 09:13 |
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| pronto | wow skype has a massive bug | 09:16 |
| pronto | like it littery turns off the phone | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Stskeeps: suspend (to disk/ram) on OM/OE kernel even does a totally weird thing: it calculates skew between RTC and sysclock on suspend and restores this same skew on resume - alas plus some seconds error due to latency | 09:17 |
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| rmrfchik | hi | 09:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Stskeeps: generally sysclosk always is way off from correct time, comapred to RTC | 09:17 |
| * rmrfchik lost trying to build package in QtCreator | 09:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and using adjtime makes things even much much worse | 09:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Stskeeps: as a general rule never adjust RTC without adjusting sysclock same moment | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which implicitly disqualifies sysclock as a time source for RTC adjustment | 09:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | (of course this lets aside the deprecation of sudden time changes on systime. In real life I rarely ever seen anybody feeling concened abot that though, esp on single user systems) | 09:24 |
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| mece | 'ello 'ello maemites | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | moo | 09:31 |
| mece | what's new and exciting? | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | another work week. | 09:32 |
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| mece | yay verily yay | 09:32 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: why not just grab clock from GPS? | 09:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah why? dunno, ask Nokia | 09:32 |
| Stskeeps | that one i don't understand either | 09:32 |
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| Stskeeps | there's a massive framework for time setting, closed source | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | and why does my device still ask for time/date in first boot | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:33 |
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| ShadowJK | it asks for time and suggests the correct time itself | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | they screwed it, as usual | 09:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | know why? just because nokia doesn't like peer review | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | and seems meego isn't any better wrt that | 09:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | obviously, due to limited HR Nokia doesn't even allow much internal peer review | 09:36 |
| * Stskeeps glares at DocScrutinizer and goes do work | 09:36 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | no need to glare at me. I'm just telling what is obvious from looking at it from outside | 09:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | from my POV and experience there's just so much difference between bme and sensorfw (or whatyacallit), regarding missing abstract system integration / API and operation mode whitepapers. The existing open source is just a small slice of the cake | 09:46 |
| Sargun_Screen | hey | 09:47 |
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| johnx|debook | DocScrutinizer, actually, I've been curious about what kind how openmoko handled power management 'policy' | 09:48 |
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| lpotter | heh. there was none | 09:48 |
| johnx|debook | well there isn't for maemo (or meego yet, AFAIK) | 09:48 |
| johnx|debook | but I had some ideas, so I'm going to try and hack something together and see exactly how dumb I am :) | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | depends on your definition of OM and of 'power mgmt' | 09:49 |
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| johnx|debook | not just power management, but what sets 'policy' | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | policy for what exactly? | 09:50 |
| johnx|debook | What I'm thinking of how to the whole set of currently running programs more aware about the current state of the device | 09:50 |
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| johnx|debook | Have you seen dbus-scripts and/or ActionManager? | 09:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ideally they don't need to | 09:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 09:51 |
| johnx|debook | For example, I'd really like my device to be pull music/movies down from my desktop sometime during the night, as long as it's on wifi and plugged into power | 09:53 |
| johnx|debook | or I'd really like my torrent client to turn off when I unplug the charger | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | a prog might be interested in a number of things, like 'online' 'visible' and dunno what. A general power mgmt policy though is largely useless for programs | 09:53 |
| johnx|debook | I think that's fair | 09:53 |
| johnx|debook | so maybe I misspoke when I said 'power management' | 09:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | for a general statement on OM you might want to look into freesmartphone.org for that | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | apps allocate/free and query particular resources | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fso does the rest | 09:55 |
| johnx|debook | what if an app isn't in a position where it can query the current state? (ie, if it's not running) | 09:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | err? | 09:56 |
| johnx|debook | for example, if I wanted my torrent client to *start* as long as some conditions were met? | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you can have rules for certain resorce events talking to/starting certain dbus clients | 09:57 |
| ColdFyre | invoke it via shell script? | 09:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | e.g on inbound sms fso will try to talk to and implicitly start fsopimd | 09:58 |
| johnx|debook | DocScrutinizer, ok, that is exactly what I'm looking for then :) I kind of figured I was re-inventing the wheel, but I couldn't find prior art | 09:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | inbound call does same with dialer-ui - whatever its called on fso | 09:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fsophoned? | 09:59 |
| * johnx|debook reads | 10:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | check out http://freesmartphone.org | 10:00 |
| johnx|debook | yup, on it | 10:00 |
| johnx|debook | looking at the architecture | 10:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | architecture is nice (hehe, a tiny bit is by me :-p) | 10:01 |
| johnx|debook | making this face: >_< because I just spent my sunday night reading 'dbus-scripts.c' trying to get a feel for working with dbus and glib in C | 10:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ping mickeyl if you want 1. hand info | 10:02 |
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| johnx|debook | I'll read a bit before I waste a whole bunch of other people's time without knowing if anyone in else in maemo/meego land is even interested :) | 10:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw SHR/FSO will come to N900 in a short while :-) | 10:02 |
| johnx|debook | via Meego? or to Maemo 5? | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | hopefully we will all be dead and gone by then | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 10:03 |
| johnx|debook | aaah, the whole stack? | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, lol | 10:03 |
| johnx|debook | O_o; | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | next question is why would anyone want that | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask the people who seem to want it, not me :-P | 10:04 |
| johnx|debook | Stskeeps, I'm not sure yet, but the policy stuff might have been what we were looking for for a while ... | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | my words | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | since meego first days | 10:04 |
| Stskeeps | shr was part reason why i wanted to throw my FR out the window when getting it | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 10:05 |
| johnx|debook | shr? | 10:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | because it obsoleted mer? | 10:05 |
| johnx|debook | mer obsoleted itself :> | 10:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.shr-project.org/trac | 10:06 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|debook: at least meego seems to be the kicker to move to a more open platform with open telephony stack, redistributable firmware, bme, sgx.. | 10:07 |
| Stskeeps | upstream kernel.. | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | so i like to think we made a difference somewhere | 10:08 |
| johnx|debook | Stskeeps, I think we did | 10:08 |
| johnx|debook | Even if it was mainly to serve as a warning to others :) | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | 'be careful what you wish for' | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | someone suggested to port maemo gtk to meego.. | 10:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx|debook: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue /shr | 10:09 |
| johnx|debook | But the lack of some kind of policy daemon or service in meego weirds me out | 10:09 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|debook: there's one actually, or supposed to come | 10:09 |
| Stskeeps | i can't recall the name offhand | 10:10 |
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| johnx|debook | I couldn't find the info...and last time I asked in #meego no one could tell me if they'd have cron or if scheduling would happen some other way | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 10:11 |
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| Stskeeps | timed is coming now | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 10:11 |
| johnx|debook | I think I'm failing to R the proper FM :) | 10:11 |
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| johnx|debook | directions to its location appreciated :P | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | looking.. | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/timed | 10:11 |
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| * DocScrutinizer frowns at timed and other non compatible cron replacements | 10:12 | |
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| Stskeeps | cron's kinda crap for the typical alarm/'wake me up at this point' | 10:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no obvious rationale why crond can't learn to behave on embedded devices, with RTC Alarms even | 10:13 |
| Stskeeps | patch would never go upstream | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | reinventing the wheel all the time | 10:14 |
| johnx|debook | though really, it also shouldn't be hard to patch timed to read crontabs to generate events | 10:14 |
| mortini | anacron! :P | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck anacron | 10:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx|debook: so then I'd not care if it's called timed or crond. I'd simply create a symlink in /bin :-P | 10:15 |
| ilius | when i add maemo repos to ubuntu and update, i get this error: | 10:15 |
| ilius | W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY E40DC434616730BD | 10:15 |
| johnx|debook | or just make a crontab that will take a properly formatted crontab file and create a timed event for you ... | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | it's not an error, it says W: | 10:16 |
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| ilius | ubuntu 10.04 i386 | 10:16 |
| johnx|debook | ilius, it's 'as intended' according to Nokia. You'd have to take it up with them directly. I suggest calling their customer support :) | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx|debook: that's roundabout how fsocrond works | 10:17 |
| ilius | but all of repos is ignored or huted | 10:17 |
| ilius | *hit | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx|debook: (suggested by me :-P) | 10:17 |
| ilius | Ign http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle/free Translation-en_US | 10:17 |
| ilius | Ign http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle/non-free Translation-en_US | 10:17 |
| ilius | Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk Release.gpg | 10:17 |
| ilius | .... | 10:17 |
| johnx|debook | ilius, that doesn't mean what you think it means | 10:18 |
| hrw | morning | 10:19 |
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| ilius | when downloading index, most of files is Faild or Hit | 10:19 |
| johnx|debook | ok failed will have a reason why next to them | 10:19 |
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| johnx|debook | actually, just pastebin the whole output | 10:20 |
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| Stskeeps | ilius: also, why are you trying to insert maemo repos into ubuntu? | 10:20 |
| johnx|debook | mornin' hrw, lbt :) | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | only insane people do that | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | (<-) | 10:20 |
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| johnx|debook | hey. I tried to do it and make it work for like a year. I learned my lesson ... | 10:20 |
| ilius | Stskeeps: yes | 10:20 |
| ilius | Stskeeps: it supports i386 | 10:21 |
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| Stskeeps | ilius: still.. | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:21 |
| johnx|debook | It probably won't work the way you think it will work | 10:21 |
| ilius | http://paste.ubuntu.com/482220/ | 10:21 |
| aboyer | can i use the latest debian-squeeze devkit (ie: v1.0.5) for maemo development? | 10:22 |
| ShadowJK | Using repos from distro X in distro Y usually results in disaster :p | 10:22 |
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| jacekowski | aboyer: use lenny | 10:22 |
| johnx|debook | ilius, yes. That run of apt-get update completted successfully | 10:22 |
| ilius | johnx|debook: but no package is index except for python-conic !! | 10:23 |
| johnx|debook | go read the lists apt downloaded for you | 10:23 |
| aboyer | jacekowski: i'm trying to build my app with maemo-sdk-symbols and a post on the mailing list recomends squeeze (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/60704) | 10:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx|debook: oops, s/fsocrond/fsoatd/ | 10:24 |
| johnx|debook | ilius, in /var/lib/apt/lists/ | 10:24 |
| aboyer | jacekowski: however, it an old thread and there is a newer version of the sqeeze devkit now.. | 10:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx|debook: the fsocrond was suggested by me, but not yet implemented it seems | 10:24 |
| jacekowski | aboyer: use lenny | 10:25 |
| jacekowski | aboyer: other devkits have issues | 10:25 |
| aboyer | alright, where do i get it? | 10:25 |
| jacekowski | you should have it in /scratchbox/packages/ | 10:25 |
| jacekowski | or somewhere | 10:25 |
| jacekowski | /scratchbox/devkits/ | 10:25 |
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| johnx|debook | Stskeeps, any idea about the name of that policy daemon for meego? | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | johnx|debook: sorry, it still escapes me | 10:34 |
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| johnx|debook | think it's on gitorious or would it still be on the drawing board? | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | possibly on gitorious or in source rpms | 10:34 |
| johnx|debook | thanks. I'll try and track it down | 10:35 |
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| hrw | does someone know why fapman is armel only? | 11:00 |
| steinex | someone here uses the invisible shield? | 11:00 |
| steinex | is it good? | 11:00 |
| nid0 | plenty of people recommend it | 11:00 |
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| nid0 | though your screen will end up with a bit of a rubbery feel to it | 11:01 |
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| budfive | I use it | 11:01 |
| budfive | it's good | 11:01 |
| budfive | if you've never applied it before, assume that you'll screw it up at least the first time you try | 11:01 |
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| steinex | budfive: that's what i'm guessing ;) | 11:03 |
| nid0 | always worth getting it from a shop that offers fitting as well :p | 11:03 |
| _|Nix|_ | Venemo: I just moved doc/hildon-extras-docs.sgml to hildon-extras-docs.sgml.in, so edit the latter file, not the former. | 11:03 |
| budfive | steinex: wipe everything down first as well as you possibly can. You want no dust at all | 11:03 |
| budfive | steinex: it's good to do it in a very humid environment to settle airborne dust; run your shower for a bit and do it there | 11:04 |
| budfive | steinex: use lots and lots of the installation fluid | 11:04 |
| steinex | right know i just drop the n900 in my pocket without any case... it's ok so far but, hm. | 11:04 |
| steinex | ;) | 11:05 |
| _|Nix|_ | steinex: Just don't put anything else into that pocket :) | 11:05 |
| steinex | maybe i will let it apply in some shop | 11:05 |
| nid0 | just adding a case works perfectly well if you can put up with putting it in and taking it out | 11:05 |
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| Venemo | _|Nix|_: wouldn't it be possible to create some documentation to the source code and make GtkDoc use that? | 11:05 |
| steinex | just dropped my n900 accidentaly once on stone from 1,50, i was surprised that it survived | 11:05 |
| steinex | :D | 11:05 |
| nid0 | iv had mine since the beginning of feb with no screen protector and my screen's still flawless, simply because it's in a leather carry case whenever it's not being used | 11:05 |
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| steinex | nid0: i had such a case but didn't like it | 11:06 |
| steinex | nid0: too much fumble on incoming call or so | 11:06 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Venemo: Well, I dunno enough about gtk-doc ... try it. Here's how: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk-doc-manual/stable/documenting_symbols.html.en | 11:06 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Venemo: The comments that look like Example 3-3 can go right above the function prototype in the header file, AFAIK. | 11:07 |
| _|Nix|_ | Venemo: Although the fact that gtk-doc doesn't recognize the symbols in your header files as those which should be documented but aren't doesn't bode well for it picking up your comments. | 11:08 |
| ilius | i want to run gTranslate in ubuntu, but it depends on libconic and libconic could not installed | 11:09 |
| hrw | ~curse developers which create UI using Qt without using Layout elements | 11:09 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, developers which create UI using Qt without using Layout elements ! | 11:09 |
| hrw | ~curse apmefo one twice | 11:09 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, apmefo one twice ! | 11:09 |
| ilius | i didn't find a good client for google translator (for linux) except for gTranslate in maemo repo | 11:10 |
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| Venemo | _|Nix|_: hm, I dunno | 11:10 |
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| ilius | maybe i have to change the source code | 11:10 |
| _|Nix|_ | Venemo: I might be able to get you started with a skeleton .xml file in about 8-9 hours. | 11:11 |
| johnx|debook | yup. if you're very lucky it might just be a matter of changing the configure options | 11:11 |
| _|Nix|_ | Venemo: ... if the automatic generation doesn't work out for you. | 11:11 |
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| ilius | johnx|debook: who was your addressee? | 11:12 |
| hrw | ~seen nathraiben | 11:12 |
| infobot | hrw: i haven't seen 'nathraiben' | 11:12 |
| Jaffa | re | 11:12 |
| johnx|debook | ilius, I meant you. it's worth a try to download the source and see if you can turn off the requirement for conic | 11:13 |
| ilius | johnx|debook: thanks, but i wonder why there is not a good client for desktop linux and i have to use a mobile app for desktop :-D | 11:14 |
| johnx|debook | sorry, no idea | 11:14 |
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| hrw | apmefo has bugs.maemo.org listed as bugtracker but no such product in bugzilla... | 11:15 |
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| Venemo | _|Nix|_: how can I test the auto-generation? | 11:27 |
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| hrw | ARGH.. | 11:31 |
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| hrw | DocScrutinizer51: apmefo suxx more and more when I look at it. | 11:31 |
| hrw | DocScrutinizer51: UI is done in idiotic way, no real sources available, no bugtracker... | 11:32 |
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| hrw | ~curse apmefo so called developer | 11:32 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, apmefo so called developer ! | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hrw: take it elsewhere, I'm not interested | 11:32 |
| hrw | DocScrutinizer51: mkey, you was person who suggested to take a look | 11:32 |
| RST38h | yawn | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry | 11:33 |
| RST38h | EHLO hrw, Doc | 11:33 |
| hrw | hi RST38h | 11:33 |
| wazd | woohoo, TAT would be in Dublin :D | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | designer party | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 11:33 |
| wazd | And I was planning to poke their concepts a bit :D Goddamn :) | 11:34 |
| RST38h | wazd and Sts too =) | 11:34 |
| RST38h | wazd: not that hard to poke | 11:34 |
| RST38h | wazd: Starting with the dismal waste of space when showing an application (eg web browser) | 11:35 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, in fact Stskeeps is more important than TAT) | 11:35 |
| wazd | RST38h: you, btw? | 11:35 |
| RST38h | Hear that, Stskeeps? | 11:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: Probably not going | 11:35 |
| wazd | RST38h: aww :( | 11:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: Can't spend that much money + will be out of vacation days by then | 11:35 |
| wazd | RST38h: maybe Nokia can sponsor emu-lord?) | 11:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: Not likely | 11:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: I have nothing to talk about (at least yet) | 11:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: And they will probably have limitations on sponsoring Nokia/Intel employees anyway | 11:37 |
| wazd | RST38h: I can even give you mine, if I'll get some. Cause I think I'll find some cash for the tickets and visa, and I have a free place to rest 8n Dublin for emergency cases :) | 11:37 |
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| wazd | though I doubt that it will be available :) | 11:38 |
| wazd | I wonder if TAT can borrow me their UI prototyping tools ^^ | 11:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: Have you figured out the topic of your talk btw? | 11:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: afaik they use flash | 11:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: But after all that time, it may be easier just to learn damn C++/Qt, it is not THAT complicated | 11:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, not flash. They have their own "cascades" stuff | 11:40 |
| RST38h | ah | 11:41 |
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| wazd | RST38h: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/application-design-survival-guide-programmers | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: o/ | 11:42 |
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| wazd | RST38h: to learn C++ I have to learn C, and before that - python or something :) | 11:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: You can skip Python | 11:44 |
| RST38h | wazd: C is a good idea. In fact, you may not need to learn C++ after that, just treat it as a better C ;) | 11:44 |
| RST38h | wazd: But the original book on C is a 5mm-thick brochure that fits a pocket | 11:45 |
| RST38h | wazd: (the one I had was part of the "Radio" magazine series of books, blue paper cover) | 11:45 |
| wazd | Intel CEO: «We need antivirus, can someone buy me McAfee?» Few hours later: «Done.» «Great, which version?» «Version… ?» | 11:45 |
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| * hrw sent request for apmefo *real* sources. I wonder will I ever get them | 11:49 | |
| ieatlint | mmmm, tacos | 11:50 |
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| jacekowski | wazd: K&R | 11:51 |
| jacekowski | wazd: that's only book you need | 11:51 |
| RST38h | hrw: You want to rewrite it in C/C++? | 11:52 |
| wazd | jacekowski: currently I need to be locked down in some european abandoned bunker with food and PC to learn 3D Modelling :) | 11:53 |
| hrw | RST38h: no, I want to fix ui | 11:54 |
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| hrw | RST38h: and UI source is not in source package | 11:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: you mean, your appartment block basement won't do? | 11:54 |
| RST38h | hrw: splendid | 11:55 |
| RST38h | hrw: how did it build, anyway? | 11:55 |
| hrw | RST38h: it contains generated python files | 11:55 |
| hrw | RST38h: 'build' process for apmefo is 'cp' based | 11:55 |
| RST38h | oh | 11:55 |
| RST38h | and it still went into "free"? | 11:56 |
| hrw | RST38h: extras process is automated - no one checks packages | 11:56 |
| * RST38h sighs | 11:57 | |
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| lcuk | morning \o | 12:00 |
| Venemo | good morning lcuk! :) | 12:01 |
| hrw | hi lcuk | 12:02 |
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| slonopotamus | this ain't funny anymore | 12:04 |
| Venemo | Khertan: ping | 12:04 |
| Venemo | ~seen Khertan | 12:04 |
| infobot | khertan is currently on #maemo (19h 53m 21s) #meego (19h 53m 21s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 14h 34m 44s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. | 12:04 |
| slonopotamus | bug 9902 still isn't fixed | 12:04 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902 Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel | 12:04 |
| rmrfchik | Call for beta-testing game for maemo ;) A port (writen from scratch) of Vexed (vexed.sf.net) | 12:06 |
| slonopotamus | X-Fade: slacker! bug 9902 is FOUR MONTH old already | 12:06 |
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| Appiah | if it's written from scratch it's a clone right? | 12:07 |
| rmrfchik | yeah, clone | 12:07 |
| Appiah | sure I could test | 12:07 |
| rmrfchik | whatever | 12:07 |
| rmrfchik | mailto:paulaner@gmail.com | 12:07 |
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| rmrfchik | i'll reply with .deb later today | 12:08 |
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| rmrfchik | and I'll appreciate any help to make QtCreator to make nice package for maemo. Now it create package with binary, and I want to include .desktop file | 12:12 |
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| kerio | timeless_mbp: the toolbar bug occurs on the first opening of a browser window, after the boot | 13:07 |
| kerio | got screens, will post them in a bit | 13:07 |
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| ZogG | hey | 13:10 |
| ZogG | how do i vote for council and does the person have to be from europe so he would be in touch with Nokia? | 13:10 |
| crashanddie | are the elections up again? | 13:11 |
| crashanddie | I thought it was in September | 13:11 |
| ZogG | i saw topic on maemo news | 13:11 |
| crashanddie | ZogG: the location rarely influences anything with regards to the nokia-council relation | 13:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx: (meego hostile) well, setting potential contributors in #meego on ignore isn't exactly helping to jump even the lowest barriers | 13:13 |
| johnx | you're on ignore in #meego? | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | obviously | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but meh, nm | 13:14 |
| johnx | Uhm, I hadn't seen you talk there in days ... | 13:15 |
| johnx | Actually, I didn't even know there was a channel-wide ignore list (or at least one on #meego) | 13:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | #meego-arm to be precise | 13:17 |
| johnx | Just because people don't have an answer for a question, doesn't mean you're on ignore ... | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I didn't mention a channel wide list | 13:18 |
| johnx | I was confused by the phrasing, since you didn't mention anyone in particular | 13:18 |
| johnx | But yeah, I would generally say, that lack of answer != ignore | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I had no question to ask, I tried to contribute, but as mentioned above it's been a silly mood as I finished with #meego weeks ago for exactly this general clubhouse mentality | 13:20 |
| johnx | are you referring to the discussion about sources of battery info? | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | just let those fulltime paid dudes do their jobs, don't want to distract them | 13:21 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: we don't have bq* in the kernel, so the issue is a bit moot atm | 13:23 |
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| * johnx doesn't feel like helping people fix their relationships right now, sleeps instead | 13:24 | |
| lcuk | johnx, sleep well dude | 13:25 |
| johnx | thanks lcuk :) | 13:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.svgalib.org/matan/770/n900/bq27x00_battery.c *shrug* | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | is it submitted upstream and on path to acceptance? | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | also, when did you last sleep? | 13:49 |
| Jaffa | ZogG: Voting instructions will be sent out nearer the time. Candidates can be based anywhere. | 13:57 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Up next month, but the dates have to be announced a month in advance: http://maemo.org/community/council/community_council_september_election/ | 13:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | kerio: thanks | 14:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | please do note *how* you open the browser | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | is it from a shortcut, bookmark, desktop widget, or the launcher, or something more surprising | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | (Conversations, Mail, ...) | 14:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.mail-archive.com/openmoko-kernel@lists.openmoko.org/msg00894.html | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | openmoko isn't considered a upstream kernel | 14:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this answer isn't considered helpful | 14:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://lmgtfy.com/?q="BQ27000+HDQ+battery+monitor+driver"+debian maybe this is better for some special needs :-P | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and honestly, I feel like the monkey. | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | so do whatever you like | 14:32 |
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| RST38h | Anyone familiar qith Qt here? | 14:35 |
| * frals points at w00t_ | 14:36 | |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: ok | 14:37 |
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| ieatlint | RST38h: somewhat | 14:37 |
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| kerio | timeless_mbp: shortcut from the desktop iirc | 14:39 |
| lcuk | RST38h, also depends which classes within Qt you are working with | 14:39 |
| mece | yay.. turns out I'm not without a job next week after all. | 14:39 |
| mece | I think I wanna play with meego a little now. :) | 14:41 |
| RST38h | ieatlint,lcuk: I need to figure out the fastest way to blit an image (plain unsigned char buffer) to the screen in Qt | 14:43 |
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| lcuk | so you have custom data that changes once per frame and you want it to be updates live | 14:43 |
| RST38h | right | 14:44 |
| mece | hey, anyone use saunalahti here? | 14:44 |
| lcuk | and you don't want to use the Qpainter or similar primatives to do the drawing for you? | 14:44 |
| fragment | mece: yeah | 14:44 |
| Scelt | mece: me | 14:45 |
| ieatlint | yeah, you can accomplish that with something like qimage methinks | 14:45 |
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| mece | ok fragment, Scelt, my question is can you use two different phones simultaneously if you have a multisim type deal (Saunalahti Nopsa+) | 14:46 |
| fragment | mece: I have another sim but it is in a usb 3g modem | 14:47 |
| Scelt | mece: I think so because it works with 3g modem usb stickie thing too. that stick installs program to pc to be able to send and receive sms with the pc | 14:47 |
| Scelt | mece: but to call from both phones at the same time sounds a little complicated | 14:47 |
| fragment | mece: but if the sim is in an another phone, both will ring in incoming call | 14:48 |
| mece | Scelt, well receiving calls mostly.. | 14:48 |
| fragment | mece: sms is only delivered to the other one, I think | 14:48 |
| mece | ok. | 14:48 |
| Scelt | should work | 14:48 |
| kerio | huh? each sim has a different number | 14:48 |
| Scelt | I recall that sms messages are delivered to both sims | 14:48 |
| mece | kerio, no. | 14:48 |
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| fragment | kerio: "technical number" is different, "real number" isn't | 14:49 |
| kerio | then you have a fucked up carrier :| | 14:49 |
| lcuk | RST38h, what sort of widgets and surface and even flavour of the toolkit are you using | 14:49 |
| mece | kerio, now, it's awesome. | 14:49 |
| mece | s/now/no/ | 14:49 |
| infobot | mece meant: kerio, no, it's awesome. | 14:49 |
| lcuk | ie is it even practical to use qimage itself to do this? | 14:49 |
| RST38h | lcuk: MeegoTouch | 14:49 |
| RST38h | Ok, does not look like anyone can help me | 14:50 |
| mece | anyway, the reason I ask is because N900 is my only phone, but since I want to do some experimental stuff (meego n such) I need a backup phone with a sim) | 14:50 |
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| Scelt | mece: you can get a sim with diff number and redirect calls too | 14:51 |
| Venemo | ~seen Khertan | 14:51 |
| infobot | khertan is currently on #maemo (22h 40m 20s) #meego (22h 40m 20s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 17h 21m 43s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. | 14:51 |
| Scelt | but I though know that having multisim is easier | 14:51 |
| mece | Scelt, well, if it works with the sims I have I wont have to, will I? :D | 14:51 |
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| Scelt | no, you won't | 14:51 |
| ieatlint | mece: each SIM has a unique IMSI which (realistically) cannot be duplicated | 14:51 |
| mece | ieatlint, that is beside the point. | 14:52 |
| ieatlint | and if you could, the cell tower would not allow two different IMEIs to register under the same IMSI | 14:52 |
| ieatlint | are you not asking if you can have the same phone number for two SIMs? | 14:52 |
| Scelt | Is Finland the only country in the world using MultiSIM or how come people dunno a shit about multisim service? :P | 14:52 |
| mece | ieatlint, I already know I can. | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: SIM have a unique IMSI (like IP), and a central server (like DNS) is associating a phonenumber (like URL) to the IMSI. Of course this central server can have several IMSI for one phone# | 14:52 |
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| mece | DocScrutinizer, thank you. That's what I figured. | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, ieatlint beat me | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 14:53 |
| ieatlint | i've not heard of having multiple IMSIs like that... interesting | 14:53 |
| mece | ieatlint, it's quite a nice deal they have right now. for 14€ a month you get full speed unlimited 3g (up to 15Mbps from 2 sim cards. ie one for 3g modem one for phone. | 14:54 |
| ieatlint | two SIMs linked to one billed account doesn't necessarily mean they share a phone number | 14:55 |
| Scelt | but they do | 14:55 |
| mece | ieatlint, well it says on the paper they came with that they do. | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: maybe I'm not 100% correct on the terms, it might be another number/ID than exactly IMSI, but the basic principle is correct anyway | 14:55 |
| ieatlint | but for €14... that's awesomes | 14:55 |
| mece | ieatlint, it is. | 14:55 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: i've seen enough with openbts that i think it would be almost exactly like that | 14:56 |
| ieatlint | mece: that's awesome | 14:56 |
| mece | well, I guess I can just test it :D | 14:56 |
| ieatlint | not just the price, but if it actually dupes incoming sms/phone calls | 14:56 |
| mece | Need to dig up a phone. I gave my N95 to my mom, so NGAGE it is :D | 14:56 |
| Scelt | ieatlint: it does. I've used it too | 14:57 |
| Scelt | had a phone and pc with usb 3g modem online at the same time. an sms came to the both at the same time | 14:57 |
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| mece | NGAGE + Frodo. That is the best mobile gaming evah :D | 14:57 |
| mece | ik+ in particular. | 14:58 |
| ieatlint | i don't think i'll ever see anythink remotely like that here in the states | 14:58 |
| ieatlint | anything, bleh | 14:58 |
| Scelt | well, Finland is the best country to live in asys Newsweek :P | 14:58 |
| Scelt | says | 14:58 |
| mece | Scelt, other sources say that finnish women are the sluttiest in the world. So win-win | 14:59 |
| ieatlint | eh, i live in a city that supposedly has the smartest women in the US | 14:59 |
| ieatlint | and we have awesome food | 14:59 |
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| mece | ieatlint, where is that? | 14:59 |
| ieatlint | san francisco | 14:59 |
| mece | ieatlint, :) It seems like a very cool city. | 15:00 |
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| Scelt | mece: I don't think so. Finns are pretty up-tight and knowing the girls in the east, it's hard to believe that | 15:00 |
| Scelt | ieatlint: and you have mythbusters | 15:00 |
| ieatlint | haha, yes, and we have the mythbusters | 15:00 |
| sharpneli | Scelt: Just because you dont have any luck doesn't mean that others wont ;) | 15:01 |
| mece | Scelt, well they might be uptight, but apparently they put out, according to this study. I forget where it was but it had some 50000 participants from or so 50 countries. | 15:01 |
| mece | ok aaaanyway. Any particular brand of microsd you recommend for the N900? | 15:02 |
| Scelt | sharpneli: one is more than enough for me. If you are married, you know what I mean | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | mythbusters, more silly even than McGyver ;-P | 15:03 |
| RST38h | you | 15:03 |
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| Scelt | mece: okay. some study said that Czech girls are the best to have sex with. start as young as dutch, want as often as french and are afraid of stds as italian :P | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Scelt: sandisk | 15:04 |
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| RST38h | Scelt: Are they good in the kitchen and at funerals? | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err mece | 15:05 |
| mece | ok... | 15:05 |
| Scelt | mece: are as little afraid of stds as italians | 15:05 |
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| * RST38h asking practical questions | 15:05 | |
| ieatlint | at funerals? | 15:05 |
| ieatlint | seriously? | 15:05 |
| ieatlint | that's what you look for in women... how they do at funerals? | 15:05 |
| Scelt | RST38h: get yourself one and you'll know. or ask your father about your momma | 15:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ieatlint: ++ | 15:08 |
| mece | hmm what's this class crap on microsd cards? What do I want? Class 10 is waay too expensive. | 15:08 |
| ieatlint | higher the class, higher the throughput | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | It seems class == MB/s | 15:09 |
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| mece | hmm sandisk are either microsdhc 16gb or Mobile Ultra microsdhc 16gb. 47€ vs 65€... | 15:10 |
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| mece | hmm 8gb the ultra one (I guess that's faster) for 29€. 8Gb is plenty for meego I guess? | 15:11 |
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| floh79 | Hi. I'm trying to install freoffice on my n900. But I get such error message: "E: Couldn't find package freoffice" | 15:19 |
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| floh79 | I already added http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/ | 15:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | floh79: hmm looks ok here | 15:25 |
| floh79 | DocScrutinizer51: What could be wrong? | 15:26 |
| floh79 | There is such line in source.list: | 15:26 |
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| floh79 | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/ fremantle free non-free | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe it's in devel, not testing | 15:26 |
| floh79 | Should be ok? | 15:26 |
| floh79 | Argh.!!! | 15:27 |
| floh79 | DocScrutinizer51: Good point! I didn't notice that. -.- | 15:27 |
| ieatlint | someone should port skifree to maemo | 15:28 |
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| floh79 | DocScrutinizer51: Thank you. I'm wondering why I don't get a error because of wrong url. | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | testing is a valid repo | 15:29 |
| frals | whats the proper word for the tiny ridges/nipples/whatever that are on most hw keyboards on f and j? | 15:30 |
| lcuk | those indicate the home keys | 15:31 |
| floh79 | DocScrutinizer51: Oh... you're right. | 15:31 |
| frals | yeah but is there some nifty word for them lcuk? | 15:31 |
| floh79 | DocScrutinizer51: So extras-devel is more bleedy-edge than extras-testing, right? | 15:32 |
| frals | guess ill just go with "home key indicators" otherwise | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | floh79: yes | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | frals: tactile markers? | 15:32 |
| floh79 | DocScrutinizer51: Thanx. Have a nice day! | 15:32 |
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| Venemo | ~seen Khertan | 15:33 |
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| infobot | khertan is currently on #maemo (23h 22m 23s) #meego (23h 22m 23s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 18h 3m 46s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. | 15:33 |
| frals | DocScrutinizer51: sounds good, cheers | 15:33 |
| rmrfchik | MohammadAG51: ping | 15:36 |
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| wazd | ~seen qwerty12 | 15:52 |
| infobot | qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 262d 18h 28m 19s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'. | 15:52 |
| wazd | :( | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: did you see his glamorous exit? | 15:53 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: nope | 15:53 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: sec | 15:53 |
| RST38h | Oh, qwerty has been really good at it | 15:53 |
| * lcuk thinks we should hire qwerty and texrat and have texrat as his boss personally | 15:53 | |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=774637#post774637 and http://pastebin.com/GAxYw8yN | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | pastebin link the most interesting | 15:55 |
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| alterego | fabo: also, would you be okay with me making a wikipage for this? | 16:01 |
| alterego | Whoops, wrong channel :) | 16:01 |
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| Khertan_work | Hi all | 16:04 |
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| mece | Khertan_work, \o | 16:04 |
| wazd | wow :D | 16:05 |
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| wazd | that was cool :D | 16:06 |
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| lcuk | wazd, sure its cool to bitch and insult people around here. | 16:07 |
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| wazd | lcuk: well, I don't think that he came up with this out of nowhere first of all | 16:09 |
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| thresh | oh come on, nokia doesnt really care about 'community' | 16:12 |
| FIQ | he mad | 16:12 |
| wazd | I wonder who's the Frenchman :D | 16:13 |
| RST38h | The Flying Frenchmannnn! | 16:13 |
| wazd | Khertan?) | 16:13 |
| RST38h | (or was it the Flying Dutchman?) | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: nah, it's been concluded it was crashanddie | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:13 |
| thresh | they dont fix bugs I submitted therefore they suck | 16:14 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: aaah, that's why I was surprised :) Cause Khertan looks as pretty nice guy to me :) | 16:14 |
| RST38h | wazd: BTW have you approached the Faster App Manager guy with some gui design suggestions? | 16:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: His stuff may benefit from them =) | 16:15 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, who is it first of all? :D | 16:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://maemo.org/packages/view/fapman/ | 16:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: basically, the guy has written a HAM substitute | 16:16 |
| thresh | love the name. | 16:16 |
| RST38h | (HAM being rendered mostly unsuable by the last PR) | 16:16 |
| wazd | jesus, what kind of name is tht?! :D | 16:16 |
| wazd | fapman :D Oh my :D | 16:16 |
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| thresh | wazd: maybe not everyone hang out on boards, though. | 16:17 |
| mece | wazd, it's a winning name. Teh winningest infact :D | 16:17 |
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| sharpneli | Somehow it resembles a certain type of game which is ideal for acceleration sensors way too much. :E | 16:17 |
| spinningcompass | I can see the slogan now. "Don't let your distro jerk you around. Get cozy with fapman." | 16:17 |
| spinningcompass | "Fapman. It rubs you the right way." | 16:17 |
| RST38h | Umgh. | 16:17 |
| RST38h | Ok, ttg. | 16:18 |
| TermanaN900 | Stskeeps, someone should message qwerty and tell him "I'll take that into consideration" | 16:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'll take a look | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i was pondering if you could make a music video with qwerty12's rant | 16:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Autotune must be used | 16:20 |
| toggles_w | lol | 16:20 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL9-esIM2CY | 16:20 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: kinda | 16:21 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: excellent | 16:21 |
| TermanaN900 | lol | 16:22 |
| thresh | we gonna find you, qwerty12 | 16:22 |
| thresh | home home home boy | 16:22 |
| wazd | we need to come up with some chorus though :D | 16:24 |
| thresh | apt gurus, how do I fall back to extras / extras-testing versions of softwares ? I seem to semi-fscked up the device, so dist-upgrade nor upgrade never go right | 16:32 |
| Duckboot | apt-get install <package>:<version> | 16:34 |
| Duckboot | IIRC | 16:34 |
| svuorela | package=version | 16:34 |
| thresh | yeah I was expecting an automated solution with apt_preferences(5) | 16:34 |
| thresh | suppose I need to mark the preference of extras/extras-testing packages > 1000 | 16:35 |
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| Venemo | ~seen Khertan | 16:38 |
| infobot | khertan is currently on #maemo (1d 27m 7s) #meego (1d 27m 7s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 19h 8m 30s, last said: 'ah the proto ?'. | 16:38 |
| Venemo | ~seen Khertan_work | 16:38 |
| infobot | khertan_work is currently on #maemo (33m 59s) #meego (33m 59s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 33m 57s, last said: 'Hi all'. | 16:38 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: i'm here | 16:38 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: hi! | 16:38 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: hi | 16:39 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: been looking for you for some time now | 16:39 |
| Khertan_work | :) | 16:39 |
| mortini | hide! | 16:39 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: I read your blog post here: http://khertan.net/articles/maemo/conboy_note_to_text and it gave me a very good idea | 16:39 |
| Khertan_work | which is ? | 16:39 |
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| Khertan_work | ouch meego is really slow on n900 | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_work: well, judging by the fact we just figured out our qt is totally unoptimized, i'm not surprised | 16:40 |
| thresh | maemo5 is, too | 16:40 |
| kirma | no graphics acceleration I believe? | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:41 |
| Khertan_work | thresh: maemo5 isn't | 16:41 |
| thresh | launch ham | 16:41 |
| Khertan_work | kirma: yeah and running on mmc | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | kirma: we have gfx accel | 16:41 |
| Khertan_work | thresh: ham isn't maemo ... it s an app of maemo | 16:41 |
| nid0 | thresh: one application != entire operating system. | 16:41 |
| nid0 | regardless of it being built in | 16:41 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: well... how about writing some piece of code together that lets users open their Conboy notes in Sticky Notes? | 16:41 |
| thresh | orly | 16:41 |
| thresh | how would you use an OS without package manager | 16:42 |
| Termana | apt-get? | 16:42 |
| Termana | apt-get isn't slow | 16:42 |
| thresh | yeah, last time I tried it bricked my device on update. | 16:42 |
| thresh | PR update, that is. | 16:42 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: but they ll loose conboy format and revert to simple test ? | 16:42 |
| thresh | HAM, otoh, never worked good. | 16:42 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: nope | 16:42 |
| GAN900 | thresh, well don't do that with Extras-devel enabled. | 16:42 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: Sticky Notes can handle text formatting pretty well | 16:43 |
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| thresh | well, now I don't have -devel enabled. | 16:43 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: Sticky notes apps is written with which language ? | 16:43 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: it works with a QTextEdit which works with HTML formatting | 16:43 |
| thresh | still, libsdl-mixer1.2 wants to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr. | 16:43 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: Qt, C++ | 16:43 |
| Khertan_work | conboy works with xml file ... | 16:44 |
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| Venemo | Khertan_work: so, XML to HTML and backwards, no big deal | 16:44 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: yep | 16:44 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: and there is D-Bus which allows us to communicate despite the language differences | 16:44 |
| thresh | How do I turn on apt debug messaging? To understand why it chooses to remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr instead of leaving it. | 16:45 |
| wazd | http://conference2010.meego.com/session/essentials-new-meego-user-experience | 16:46 |
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| * lcuk wishes he was more confident on stage | 16:47 | |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: hum ... but i think you should ask to conny to add directly dbus method to conboy :) | 16:47 |
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| Venemo | thresh: because you have a package whose version is not equal to the one that comes with your current firmware | 16:48 |
| wazd | seriously, the only theme I'll be able to talk about is politics :D | 16:48 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: I was thinking about adding a D-Bus method to Sticky Notes | 16:48 |
| thresh | Venemo: How do I know which one exactly? | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: 'surviving in zombie tree on fire smoke in moscow'? | 16:49 |
| thresh | e.g. how do I turn on apt debug? | 16:49 |
| wazd | lcuk: just realise that nobody cares, and that's it :D | 16:49 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: yeah :) | 16:49 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: for instance :) | 16:49 |
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| lcuk | nobody cares about what wazd | 16:50 |
| Venemo | thresh: it is a harder question | 16:50 |
| kerio | lcuk: exactly | 16:50 |
| Venemo | thresh: let it remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr, then 'apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr' will tell you what the problem is | 16:50 |
| thresh | good idea, this is a 'virtual' package aint it? | 16:50 |
| wazd | lcuk: about anything :) You, your keynote. That helps me a lot | 16:50 |
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| lcuk | yeah wazd, that helps me decide too, thanks | 16:51 |
| wazd | lcuk: I just need to come out and enjoy myself :D | 16:51 |
| Venemo | thresh: I dunno... my being a Linux noob prevents me to answer that one | 16:51 |
| * lcuk scraps his talk | 16:52 | |
| thresh | :) | 16:52 |
| thresh | somehow it installed mp-fremantle-generic-pr after removing it just fine. | 16:52 |
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| thresh | i tend to blame nokia on this one too. | 16:52 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: sorry, what talk? | 16:53 |
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| Venemo | Khertan_work: by Conny, you mean the same Conny who is behind Hildon-Extras? | 16:54 |
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| blubbi | Hi, can anyone tell me how I can get "py_compilefiles" to work on the build system? | 16:55 |
| lcuk | Venemo, I have a couple of talk proposals I keep hammering into | 16:55 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: really? about what? :) | 16:55 |
| lcuk | but I dont like standing up | 16:55 |
| lcuk | one about community stuff, one about dev stuff | 16:56 |
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| aboyer | how do i make use of the maemo-sdk-symbols package? i want to compile an app (using pr1.2 sdk) and have it run on older firmware (ie pr1.1.1) | 16:57 |
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| aboyer | i followed the instructions here http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/60704, but it doesn't work... | 16:58 |
| aboyer | i'm thinking i need to tell the compiler something, but not sure what... | 16:58 |
| Venemo | lcuk: well, you are a well respected person here, so why don't you like standing up? | 16:58 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, historical reasons | 16:58 |
| lcuk | I have never been the most confident at speaking but each time I have tried something fucks up | 16:59 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: I really think that I'll end up meeting all these guys in the airport :D | 16:59 |
| thresh | ah, someone fscked up with libsdl-mixer1.2 | 16:59 |
| lcuk | Venemo, my talk last year was completely fscked up by technical issue | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | oh, right | 17:00 |
| thresh | and of course mp-fremantle-generic-pr depends on a strict version | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | i forgot that mishap | 17:00 |
| thresh | :/ | 17:00 |
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| thresh | fremantle repo do not have any tests :/ | 17:00 |
| Venemo | lcuk: :( | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | did people see http://oss.wayfinder.com/ ? | 17:00 |
| lcuk | yeah Stskeeps - it made me feel worse than throwing papers at linuxtag | 17:00 |
| wazd | lcuk: at least you have something to talk about :) | 17:00 |
| lcuk | not good if i cannot get the words out | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: throwing papers? :P | 17:01 |
| Venemo | thresh: yeah. end users (who don't install things with dpkg or apt) will not have any problems with it thputh | 17:01 |
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| Venemo | thresh: though* | 17:01 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, umm yeah I had my notes on paper and they went flying | 17:01 |
| Venemo | lcuk: what happened? | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: ah | 17:01 |
| Venemo | lcuk: omg | 17:01 |
| lcuk | first time I had been in a room with >10 people in years and within 5mins of meeting people was up infront of them | 17:02 |
| alterego | timeless_mbp: wow .. | 17:02 |
| alterego | That's unexpected from voda ... | 17:02 |
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| * lcuk remembers backing off from the guy who pushed mic closer :$ | 17:03 | |
| * lcuk never really got over that experience | 17:03 | |
| xiwang | i want to include gst/interfaces/photography.h to get the auto-focus function, but in the source/usr/include/gstreamer-0.10/gst/interfaces, i can not find this header, any advice? | 17:03 |
| Venemo | xiwang: perhaps fcamera might be of help | 17:03 |
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| * lcuk needs to learn how to deal with public speaking really | 17:04 | |
| * Gizmokid2005 passes lcuk a beer. This'll help :) | 17:04 | |
| lcuk | heh | 17:04 |
| Venemo | lcuk: just don't be nervous | 17:05 |
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| * lcuk is happier talking to people direct | 17:05 | |
| Venemo | lcuk: and do something with the paper to disallow it flying away | 17:05 |
| lcuk | Venemo, that I learnt, I had whole presentation on my device ;) | 17:05 |
| lcuk | but then videoout failed | 17:05 |
| * lcuk cannot win | 17:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: from own experience I'd say you can't learn | 17:06 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I can however find a way to handle it | 17:06 |
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| Khertan_work | Venemo: sorry ... i was disturb by my boss | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: avoid it :-D | 17:06 |
| lcuk | I managed it at the 2008 summit, sat down and talking to someone | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: that's what I do | 17:06 |
| lcuk | it didnt matter htne who else was looking ;) | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | talking to 2 or 3 people directly is another game than holding a speech | 17:07 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: no problem :) | 17:07 |
| lcuk | oh that part is easy DocScrutinizer | 17:07 |
| wazd | aw cmon | 17:08 |
| wazd | lcuk: you have 2 months to prepare :) | 17:08 |
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| lcuk | sure wazd, but deadline is today and I have to walk through what I want to talk about | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I for one doubt I know how to speak at all. Prolly forgot about it some years ago. Just can listen to TV and chat :-P | 17:08 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: yep conny is the author of conboy | 17:09 |
| wazd | lcuk: ah, just propose and then sort things out :) | 17:09 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: point is, what I was thinking about is to add a D-Bus method to Sticky Notes which would allow other apps to show notes in Sticky Notes | 17:09 |
| lcuk | wazd you are right of course :) | 17:10 |
| lcuk | thanks | 17:10 |
| * lcuk tosses a coin at technical or community talk | 17:11 | |
| wazd | lcuk: community | 17:11 |
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| lcuk | heh i wrote most of that at the last summit :) | 17:11 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: We can rehearse the day before the conference if you want ;) | 17:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests to lcuk to look at xyawn ;-D | 17:11 | |
| * MohammadAG51 tosses a coin at lcuk | 17:12 | |
| lcuk | X-Fade, :) good idea | 17:12 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Over beers that always works :) | 17:12 |
| wazd | X-Fade: I think one drunk presenter is enough :D | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~literal xyawn | 17:12 |
| infobot | "xyawn" is "<reply>good coffee||coffee||nap||nice coffee||sleep||strong coffee||big coffee" | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | Much beer to be imbibed. | 17:12 |
| wazd | X-Fade: and that will be me :) | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn | 17:12 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Lol ;) | 17:12 |
| infobot | rumour has it, xyawn is nice coffee | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt, it's out :-/ | 17:12 |
| lcuk | ok, i have to finish this dependency chain stuff I have in other window | 17:13 |
| * lcuk kicks it a few times | 17:13 | |
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| lcuk | I have until midnight don't i? | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | midnight UGT | 17:14 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: it s an idea ... | 17:14 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: maybe you could also add a plugin system :) | 17:15 |
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| *** FireyFly|n900 is now known as FireFly|n900 | 17:29 | |
| GAN900 | It's not fair that muscle memory typos happen on the N900 keyboard too. | 17:29 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: what sort of plugin system? | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: like 'm' instead of space? | 17:29 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, in this case, I combined surprise and suppress for "surpress". <_< | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | actually that happens when going from the N900 to an N97 | 17:30 |
| GAN900 | Fingers crossed for global spellcheck in Harmattan. | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | the space bar is a bit small on the N97 | 17:30 |
| Venemo | GAN900: fingers crossed for the ability to turn it off... :P | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: smaller than on N900? O.O | 17:31 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG51: why did you go to an N97? | 17:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, yes, the N900's is wider | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ffs | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | Venemo, i didn't, had one in july and sold it in november | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | but i was at a nokia shop the other day so I played with it | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | opened notes and typed a whole paragraph of crap, i hit m instead of space | 17:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, here all you can 'play with' are dummy phones | 17:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | the space bar is waaay too far | 17:33 |
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| MohammadAG51 | they had the N97, X6 and the mini operational | 17:33 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, why's that? | 17:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | the rest were dummies | 17:33 |
| Venemo | GAN900: multiple reasons | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | OK then | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | autocomplete for sure is a major PITA | 17:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | indeed | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I doubt auto spellcheck will be any better | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | doesn't have to be auto | 17:35 |
| GAN900 | Not auto | 17:35 |
| GAN900 | Built in | 17:35 |
| GAN900 | Like it is on OS X | 17:35 |
| GAN900 | Red underline | 17:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | as highlighted by tehkseven in a video, noobs was corrected to boobs on an iPhone | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, might be bearable | 17:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | but that was for commedy purposes :P | 17:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm, typo | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 17:36 |
| GAN900 | Tap and hold to see suggestions, maybe a shortcut to show a spelling window. | 17:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | comedy* | 17:36 |
| GAN900 | Auto correction makes me want to throw the iPhone through a brick wall. | 17:37 |
| Venemo | GAN900: first, spellcheck is usually not available for my language | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | Venemo: what is your language? | 17:37 |
| GAN900 | ^ | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | C? | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | zulu? | 17:37 |
| Venemo | GAN900: and even if it is, it's usually crap | 17:37 |
| GAN900 | Esperanto? | 17:37 |
| Venemo | crashanddie: Hungarian | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | kanjii? | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | no spellcheck for hungarian? | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 17:38 |
| Venemo | crashanddie: the N900 doesn't support Hungarian... | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | oh | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | OSX does... :P | 17:38 |
| Venemo | crashanddie: and even if it did, I would most likely turn it off. It is crap even in properitary software (like MS Word and the sort) | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, all my spellcheckers are set to Englsih anyway :-D | 17:39 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, install the SL Graphics update? | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | and obviously doesn't help XP | 17:39 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what is your native language? :) | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | any GCC/G++ experts? | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | de_DE | 17:39 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: ah :) | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: not enough free space on hard drive, haven't updated OSX in a couple of months | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: I'll do it tonight, is the difference that big? | 17:39 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I thought so by your first name | 17:39 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, about 30-40% improvement in a lot of cases here. | 17:40 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: also on desktop? | 17:40 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: or only games? | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | is OS X good? | 17:40 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, only noticed it on games. | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: OS X is os-x | 17:40 |
| Venemo | anyways, I have seen no software yet that could correctly handle Hungarian inflection and grammar, this is all | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, most of the improvements probably would affect Quartz. | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | Oh SuX? | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG51, I like it. | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | But I'm biased. | 17:41 |
| jaska | comas x | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: it works, de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum | 17:41 |
| Khertan_work | Hum meego booted ... nothing to see ... | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | french, meh :P | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | move on! move on! nothing to see... | 17:42 |
| Venemo | one of my roommates used OS X at a time... I wanted to leave him a note on the screen. It took me 10 minutes to find a "Notepad"-stlyle application on it | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: latin | 17:42 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: noob | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | who the fuck mixes up latin and french :P | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | rotfl | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | est in both languages :P | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd bet MohammadAG51's French is better than yours, crashanddie | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I'd bet against that | 17:43 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I live in France, remember? | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, that's why I even bother to ponder | 17:44 |
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| crashanddie | sadly, my French is actually better than most frenchmen | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: you know French is official language in several arabic countries? | 17:44 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but not IL | 17:45 |
| crashanddie | plus, IL really isn't an arabic country :P | 17:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not sure about Jordan though | 17:45 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: you in Jordan these days? | 17:46 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, Text Edit. | 17:46 |
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| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: stop moving around the planet, it's hard to track you, even the satellites lost you | 17:46 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, there's also a postit widget in the dashboard. :) | 17:46 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, familiarity is everything. | 17:46 |
| Venemo | GAN900: there wasn't on his machine at the time | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | I need a GCC/G++ expert | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | NAO | 17:46 |
| Venemo | GAN900: I agree with your thought about familiarity though :) | 17:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, yeah, going home on thursday | 17:47 |
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| MohammadAG51 | plus i passed the DELF crap you guys do | 17:47 |
| Venemo | GAN900: I couldn't find the equivalent of an "App launcher" or a "Start menu" on it, either. There were a bunch of icons on the bottom of the screen, none of which was a text editor | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | delf? | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | you work in a mine? | 17:48 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, much like the tap-outside for dialogs in Maemo 5. | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: >>>Location: Amman, Jordan<<< (tmo \o/) | 17:48 |
| GAN900 | Which I don't think I could live without now. | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: echo "127.0.0.1 talk.maemo.org" >> /etc/hosts | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-P | 17:48 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, Quicksilver FTW *g* | 17:48 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 17:49 |
| kerio | Venemo: cmd+space textedit | 17:49 |
| kerio | there's no start menu | 17:49 |
| kerio | it would be ridiculous | 17:50 |
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| kerio | all programs are bundles in /Applications/ | 17:50 |
| kerio | (directories with a Info.plist inside) | 17:50 |
| * DocScrutinizer burps | 17:50 | |
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| Termana | kerio, leave the internet immediately. As if the Mac faggotry wasn't already enough at the moment, we didn't need a storm trooper coming in | 17:51 |
| Termana | :P | 17:51 |
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| kerio | huh? it's something that makes sense, given the application-centric nature of cocoa | 17:51 |
| Venemo | kerio, GAN900: thanks for enlightening me | 17:51 |
| Termana | kerio, it... was... a... joke... | 17:52 |
| kerio | i know | 17:52 |
| kerio | i was just explaining | 17:52 |
| kerio | dunno, it's something that happens automatically once you have a mac | 17:53 |
| Termana | horreey sheet. Don't have you speakers right up while pressing right arrow key on your keyboard | 17:53 |
| Venemo | kerio: what? | 17:53 |
| kerio | must be a reality distortion field | 17:53 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, not that it matters. :D | 17:53 |
| Termana | Or backspace! | 17:53 |
| Termana | I'm going to have to find the system noise setting and turn THEM off | 17:53 |
| kerio | Venemo: you feel the need to explain shit about macs to anyone who's having a *slightly* related discussion | 17:53 |
| Termana | :P | 17:53 |
| Venemo | kerio: aah... | 17:53 |
| Venemo | kerio: well there is a distortion field really :) | 17:54 |
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| Termana | Venemo, nah | 17:54 |
| Termana | kerio just has a man-crush on the jobsman | 17:54 |
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| Venemo | kerio: anyways, I've been distorted by the other Steve :D | 17:55 |
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| Termana | Venemo, anyone who has watched Steve Ballmer's "developers rant" will be distorted forever | 17:55 |
| Venemo | Termana: xD | 17:56 |
| Venemo | Termana: http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=gY5H7WoK0PM | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | < Termana> Venemo, anyone who has watched Steve Ballmer will be distorted forever, t,ftfy | 17:56 |
| kerio | DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS | 17:56 |
| kerio | DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS | 17:56 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: a plugin system for supporting reading note from other path / format | 17:57 |
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| kerio | DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS | 17:57 |
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| crashanddie | ! WARNING: Spam attempt by kerio on #maemo ! | 17:57 |
| Termana | kerio, my god, I think I'm going to need to go the therapy now | 17:57 |
| kerio | crashanddie: :( | 17:57 |
| crashanddie | kerio: it's just my script not liking balmer :D | 17:57 |
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| kerio | <SteveBallmer> DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS | 17:57 |
| Khertan_work | ~$ deluser kerio | 17:57 |
| kerio | better? | 17:57 |
| kerio | more like da luser | 17:58 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: that sounds like a bit of an overshoot for this little project | 17:58 |
| crashanddie | $ luser kerio | 17:58 |
| crashanddie | yes | 17:58 |
| crashanddie | $ du --insulting /home/slauwers | 17:59 |
| crashanddie | Obese | 17:59 |
| Khertan_work | ~ $ python -m 'from balistic import AutoGuide; import nuclear; nuclear.BalisticMissile(AutoGuide(kerio)).fire() | 17:59 |
| Khertan_work | ' | 17:59 |
| kerio | nuclear should be in the balistic package | 17:59 |
| Termana | When I clicked the Apple logo and then pressed About mac on OS X the other day, it logged out and logged back in | 18:00 |
| Termana | Thats how great OS X is | 18:00 |
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| kerio | Termana: works here :| | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | Termana: [citation needed] | 18:00 |
| * DocScrutinizer cackles | 18:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | idly searching for legendary balmer rap movie | 18:01 |
| * crashanddie calls the fanbois squad: "Quick guys, somebody's criticising an Apple product!" | 18:01 | |
| Venemo | ~nuke kerio | 18:01 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at kerio ... B☢☢M! | 18:01 | |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, you mean the one where he admits he is a piece of shit? | 18:01 |
| Termana | :P | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | "Yo momma's so fat, she doesn't fit in UTF-16" | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean the one where somebody remixed his "DEVELOPERS" for a rap song | 18:02 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: but how to keep note sync ? running a daemon in background ? | 18:02 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: the one where he also screams like a monkey? | 18:03 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: my thought would be... giving a callback to D-Bus | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE | 18:03 |
| Termana | I'm sorry, the one I was talking about he actually admits to loving penis, not being a piece of shit | 18:04 |
| GAN900 | Termana, what's wrong with that? | 18:04 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, oh. my. Someone should be arrested for that | 18:05 |
| Termana | GAN900, nothing? | 18:05 |
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| GAN900 | OK then | 18:05 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: yep ... but this require that what call your call back is running while sticky note is displayed | 18:05 |
| Khertan_work | or maybe i didn't understood well :) | 18:05 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: mm... this is a valid thought. | 18:05 |
| Termana | I wonder if someone could convince Steve Jobs to do the developers jiggle. That would be a sight to see | 18:06 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: well, even easier than that, I could just write a piece of code that takes care of this within Sticky Notes | 18:06 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo: this is an other simple solution | 18:07 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: simple is what I look for | 18:07 |
| Khertan_work | so i think the best way is to apply a xlst transformation to the xml | 18:08 |
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| Venemo_N900 | Khertan_work: hi again | 18:10 |
| Venemo_N900 | Khertan_work: sorry, my laptop froze... | 18:10 |
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| Khertan_work | :) | 18:11 |
| Khertan_work | i think the best way is to apply a xslt transformation to the xml note ... | 18:11 |
| Khertan_work | to convert them to html :) | 18:12 |
| Khertan_work | Venemo_N900: http://manatlan.free.fr/setup/tomboy2html.tar.gz | 18:12 |
| Venemo_N900 | Khertan_work: are you familiar enough with xslt? | 18:12 |
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| Khertan_work | Venemo_N900: not really ;) | 18:13 |
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| Venemo | Khertan_work: what is the XML format you use in Conboy? | 18:13 |
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| lcuk | given a package, something like libc6 - how do I find out how big its .deb is? | 18:18 |
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| lcuk | apt-get won't even do download only because its already installed | 18:19 |
| lcuk | and apt-cache wont tell me its filename | 18:19 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, | 18:20 |
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| MohammadAG51 | apt-get --reinstall -d install libc6 | 18:21 |
| lcuk | :) !! great | 18:21 |
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| MohammadAG51 | Need to get 3535kB of archives. | 18:21 |
| lcuk | thats complete, I need specific files | 18:21 |
| lcuk | thats ok, I can do based on that --reinstall option, ta | 18:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | yw :) | 18:22 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: if you use Tomboy's format, it already has a plugin that converts to HTML (so we could use its source), so only the opposite conversion needs writing | 18:24 |
| RST38h | back | 18:24 |
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| Khertan_work | Venemo: i'm not the author of conboy :) but conboy use the same format as tomboy | 18:25 |
| Venemo | Khertan_work: yeah you already told that :) | 18:26 |
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| Venemo | Khertan_work: initially I thought you were :P | 18:26 |
| Khertan_work | nope :) | 18:26 |
| Khertan_work | just that i really like this apps :) | 18:27 |
| Khertan_work | my project are exclusively coded with python | 18:27 |
| Khertan_work | and even if i have a tomboy clone that i made for n900 which i ve never release | 18:27 |
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| Venemo | Khertan_work: ah, I undestand :) | 18:31 |
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| Venemo | hey! | 18:36 |
| Venemo | why does the N900 reboot when killing Xorg? :P | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | it's on a upstart leash | 18:36 |
| Venemo | oh. | 18:36 |
| flux | upstart reboot swhen X dies? | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | and a vital process | 18:37 |
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| rmrfchik | any1 else to beta test puzlle game for maemo? | 18:38 |
| rmrfchik | it's Vexed clone | 18:38 |
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| kerio | Stskeeps: tell that to my headless server | 18:39 |
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| flux | kerio, likely there's a way to adjust the list of vital processes.. or perhaps run in the developer mode to disable watchdog altogether. | 18:40 |
| flux | kerio, so you're using n900 as a headless server? | 18:41 |
| kerio | flux: no, i'm using a sheevaplug | 18:41 |
| kerio | but i could use a n900 | 18:41 |
| kerio | it's only slightly slower | 18:41 |
| kerio | half the cpu, half the ram, actually | 18:41 |
| flux | argh, I mixed you up with venemo :) | 18:41 |
| kerio | a n900 as a server has the problem of using a wireless connection | 18:42 |
| * kerio wants a N900 with an ethernet port | 18:42 | |
| kerio | but hey | 18:43 |
| jaska | usb-"inverter" (usb host device that acts as a host controller for a plugged in device)?:D | 18:43 |
| kerio | builtin UPS, builtin backup connection | 18:43 |
| Venemo | flux: what about me? | 18:44 |
| kerio | jaska: hmm, could be an idea | 18:44 |
| kerio | but you don't get the fastcharge this way | 18:44 |
| kerio | ._. | 18:44 |
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| kerio | just ethernet over usb then | 18:45 |
| kerio | hmm... can you get fastcharge *and* data over usb? | 18:45 |
| rmrfchik | common, sluggish. test my game! | 18:45 |
| rmrfchik | ;) | 18:45 |
| Venemo | brb | 18:46 |
| kerio | what game? | 18:46 |
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| kerio | inb4 lost the game | 18:47 |
| rmrfchik | at last. vexed clone | 18:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Charging is completely seperate from any other subsystem | 18:48 |
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| rmrfchik | kerio: check vexed.sf.net to get the idea. | 18:48 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: yeah but fastcharge is only enabled when a couple of pins are shortcircuited | 18:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | no, it's not. | 18:49 |
| kerio | oh, you can enable it with a bme replacement? | 18:49 |
| kerio | neat | 18:49 |
| SpeedEvil | The current software stack does that | 18:49 |
| kerio | and the emergency charge system | 18:49 |
| kerio | :) | 18:49 |
| SpeedEvil | it's not hardware level other than before boot | 18:49 |
| kerio | i see | 18:50 |
| kerio | (what was it again on the safecharge? .1A with usb, .5A with fastcharger?) | 18:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not that simple | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | it will also only charge to 20% or so | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | around that IIRC | 18:50 |
| kerio | yeah, i know | 18:51 |
| kerio | anyway, the n900 as a server is a kickass idea | 18:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | need, apache2 | 18:52 |
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| rmrfchik | ok, going home. if any1 interested http://jusrnews.ru/qexed_0.1_armel.deb all bugs to paulaner@gmail.com | 18:52 |
| rmrfchik | cu | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | qexed? | 18:52 |
| kerio | like vexed but in... qt? | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | let me rephrase | 18:53 |
| RST38h | Ahahahaha: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6382 | 18:53 |
| povbot | Bug 6382: Device becomes sluggish after several days | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | *exed? | 18:53 |
| RST38h | aklapper closed it (!) with WORKSFORME (!!!) | 18:53 |
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| RST38h | Claims it works fine with his nightly build :) | 18:53 |
| kerio | MohammadAG51: a game, vexed.sf.net | 18:54 |
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| * RST38h tells himself to stop caring, obeys | 18:55 | |
| nomis | the resolution "WORKSFORME" is an insult in itself. | 18:56 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, well, to be fair, you did say in comments you would give more info | 18:57 |
| lcuk | that was in november | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | nomis, nah, that's PEBCAK | 18:57 |
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| lcuk | and if you can add valuable new ifo on system now, I am sure andre__ will be happy to re-evaluate as he already says in the report | 18:59 |
| lcuk | :) | 18:59 |
| lcuk | info | 18:59 |
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| crashanddie | anyone know a channel related to the makefile command? | 19:02 |
| johnsq | crashanddie: make = gmake = gnu make = .... | 19:03 |
| crashanddie | or maybe you'll know lcuk, how do I get make to convert any .C file into .new.C using the following command: $(CXX) -E FILENAME.C $(CFLAGS) $(EFLAGS) $(CHINC) > FILENAME.new.C | 19:03 |
| crashanddie | FILENAME being different for every .C in the dir | 19:03 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, can't you use cp instead of ($CXX) | 19:04 |
| crashanddie | eh? | 19:04 |
| lcuk | to convert any .C file into .new.C | 19:04 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: g++ -E actually does shit to the file | 19:04 |
| lcuk | pass | 19:05 |
| crashanddie | k | 19:05 |
| crashanddie | thanks though | 19:05 |
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| toggles_w | crashanddie:skip make, use bash, newfile=`echo $filename | cut -f1 -d.`;gcc -o $newfile $filename | 19:06 |
| toggles_w | actually $newfile.new.C | 19:06 |
| crashanddie | toggles_w: I can't skip make, got way too many includes and deps | 19:06 |
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| toggles_w | i think you should try harder | 19:09 |
| toggles_w | ;-) | 19:09 |
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| andre__ | RST38h: no (!), I don't claim (!) it worked in my nightly build (!) | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen qgil | 19:17 |
| infobot | qgil <ce84c209@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.132.194.9> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 5d 19h 4m 55s ago, saying: 'I guess it's a beautiful road trip - difficult to convince my manager to cover as "meeting with Intel" ;)'. | 19:17 |
| slonopotamus | andre__: you forgot to enable FULL CAPS MODE | 19:17 |
| andre__ | slonopotamus, oops :) | 19:17 |
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| Venemo | hey again | 19:27 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, that's policy. | 19:31 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, fix the moreinfo and reopen. | 19:31 |
| GAN900 | andre__, as a datapoint, mine becomes unusable unless I reboot every two days or so. | 19:32 |
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| andre__ | uhm | 19:32 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, hmm | 19:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | As a datapoint, mine does not. | 19:35 |
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| GAN900 | See how useful that is? | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | I think it's stuff soping up all of the free RAM and swap-hell engaging. | 19:36 |
| Venemo | GAN900: how much is your swappiness setting? | 19:38 |
| GAN900 | Stocl | 19:38 |
| GAN900 | 100 | 19:38 |
| GAN900 | Dropping it to 30 helped a bit. | 19:38 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: that is what I was going to recommend | 19:39 |
| Venemo | GAN900: :) | 19:39 |
| Venemo | GAN900: btw, I wonder, GA means that you're GeneralAntilles? | 19:40 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, yes. | 19:41 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo: took me a year to realise | 19:42 |
| Venemo | GAN900: okay :) | 19:42 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: yeah, I haven't realised it either | 19:42 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: I was also surprised to find out that DocScrutinizer is Joerg | 19:43 |
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| Venemo | I prefer to keep my nickname the same wherever I can :) | 19:44 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, no shit? | 19:44 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: huh :) just half a year for me | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: yeah | 19:45 |
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| GAN900 | Well, the cloak should help. | 19:46 |
| Venemo | GAN900: cloak? :P | 19:48 |
| lcuk | I asked in the channel when I first spoke to GA in a /priv window. and it was before cloaks GAN900. | 19:49 |
| slonopotamus | Venemo: he wants everyone to do /whois GAN900 | 19:49 |
| slonopotamus | Venemo: supposedly just because GAN900 wants to show off so everyone sees he has n900 :P | 19:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.theonion.com/articles/hollywood-rangers-to-manage-overpopulation-problem,17920/ :) | 19:51 |
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| Venemo | slonopotamus: I thought he's just connecting from an N900... I also name myself 'Venemo_N900' when connected from there :) | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | slonopotamus, RX-51, if we're being precise. :P | 19:52 |
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| Jaffa | Which is, presumably, the basis of MohammadAG51 :) | 19:53 |
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| Venemo | Jaffa: hm, never would have figured this out myself | 19:53 |
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| *** kyzh_ is now known as khyz | 19:56 | |
| * khyz waves to everybody | 19:56 | |
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| Venemo | hi, khyz | 20:02 |
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| MohammadAG51 | Jaffa, hey, at least it didn't take you a whole year to realize that :P | 20:02 |
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| khyz | Venemo, hello _o/ | 20:02 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG51: so, MohammadAG is your nick from your laptop and MohammadAG51 is from your N900? | 20:05 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG51: so, what are your long-term plans wrt hildon-desktop? :) | 20:05 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, this will interest you http://twitter.com/bilboed/status/21928755880 | 20:08 |
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| slonopotamus | X-Fade: slacker! | 20:08 |
| slonopotamus | X-Fade: bug 9902 (damn, i already have its number in memory) | 20:09 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902 Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel | 20:09 |
| slonopotamus | is whole http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop abandoned or smth else? | 20:09 |
| crashanddie | it's pretty amazing that people still link to slides from the maemo summit in amsterdam, but I don't know from where | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr? google? | 20:12 |
| ptmn_ | OMCK | 20:12 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: no, no referer | 20:12 |
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| crashanddie | ptmn_: sorry? | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf omck | 20:13 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what omck means... | 20:13 |
| slonopotamus | infobot: we neither | 20:14 |
| crashanddie | **neither do we** | 20:14 |
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| slonopotamus | crashanddie: that's kinda broken word order (even if it's official) | 20:15 |
| crashanddie | it's not official, it's right | 20:15 |
| crashanddie | either "us neither", or "neither do we", not "we neither". | 20:15 |
| slonopotamus | still broken :) | 20:15 |
| slonopotamus | us like to move it, move it! | 20:16 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: ( MohammadAG51 ) how the heck did you know? | 20:16 |
| *** slonopotamus is now known as slonopotamus_42 | 20:17 | |
| slonopotamus_42 | and ftw | 20:17 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: what? | 20:17 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: you do realize that you were talking to a bot, don't you? | 20:17 |
| slonopotamus_42 | Venemo: sure. they usually have more logic than people | 20:18 |
| *** DocScrutinizer51 is now known as joerg_42 | 20:18 | |
| joerg_42 | I can do that | 20:18 |
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| joerg_42 | 190540 <Venemo> MohammadAG51: so, MohammadAG is your nick from your laptop and MohammadAG51 is from your N900? | 20:20 |
| crashanddie | how's the java project called that allows you to make images from java code? | 20:20 |
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| joerg_42 | img like in run locally? | 20:20 |
| slonopotamus_42 | ~wtf joerg | 20:21 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what joerg means... | 20:21 |
| crashanddie | no, like artwork | 20:21 |
| joerg_42 | infobot: logic | 20:21 |
| infobot | Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence. | 20:21 |
| joerg_42 | infobot: attack slonopotamus_42 | 20:22 |
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| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing slonopotamus_42 | 20:22 | |
| Venemo | joerg_42: ah, yes. It is quite logical if one figures out that 51 is from RX-51 :) | 20:22 |
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| slonopotamus_42 | infobot is she? | 20:23 |
| Venemo | ~burn slonopotamus_42 | 20:23 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over slonopotamus_42, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 20:23 | |
| Venemo | slonopotamus_42: infobot is a funny bot that can do some handy things. Try ~nuke | 20:23 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: btw, where does the name DocScrutinizer come from? :) | 20:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | from scrutinizing docs obviously ;-P | 20:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or was it F.Z. ? | 20:25 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: F.Z. = ? | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | F.Z. Joe's Garage | 20:26 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: sorry, I'm not familiar with F.Z. Joe. | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q=F.Z.+Joe's+Garage&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=F.Z.+Joe's+Garage+scrutinizer | 20:28 |
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| Mece | hello | 20:31 |
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| Mece | quick question, if I understand these docs correctly, you're required to build your own meego image. There is no prebuilt image? amiright? | 20:32 |
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| *** slonopotamus_42 is now known as slonopotamus | 20:33 | |
| slonopotamus | ~lick Venemo | 20:33 |
| * infobot licks Venemo *SHLUUURRRRPPP* | 20:33 | |
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| Venemo | Mece: ask Stskeeps on #meego | 20:35 |
| Venemo | ~nuke slonopotamus | 20:35 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at slonopotamus ... B☢☢M! | 20:35 | |
| slonopotamus | miss! | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | Mece: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | has images | 20:36 |
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| Mece | Stskeeps, thankee-sai | 20:37 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: the problem with that link is that is isn't present on meego.org? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: agreed, working on that | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | and .com | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: we are working to move all our blobs to redistribute and in non-oss section. | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | all/our few | 20:38 |
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| Stskeeps | redistributable licensing | 20:38 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: mbx, bme and firmwares? | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: sgx,bme, firmwares | 20:40 |
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| Stskeeps | lo lma | 20:46 |
| lma | Hi | 20:46 |
| lma | is X-Fade around? | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | how's it going? | 20:46 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: really? so MeeGo already supports the N900 drivers? | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: we already do this through some rather tougher licensing on tablets-dev.meego.com | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | of course we support the n900 drivers | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | 'real' meego releases should soon | 20:47 |
| slonopotamus | so. anyone has any plans wrt hildon? | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: smoku's working on it | 20:47 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: link? | 20:48 |
| lma | Well, I decided to pull the trigger and push the Diablo SSU into the stable repository, but the import cron job doesn't seem to kick in... | 20:48 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: does he use irc? :) | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: yes | 20:49 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, depends on all of us. MohammadAG51 has a number of patches and investigations, smoku has a branch in meego, the knowledge is around and people still have a great deal of interest and obviously we have a great many of apps relying on it | 20:49 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: the phone driver is supported as well? | 20:51 |
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| timeless | jaffa: ping | 20:51 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo: yes, through ofono and pulseaudio modules | 20:51 |
| timeless | you did hermes, righta? | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: but not integrated yet | 20:51 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: hm, this is very good progress :) | 20:51 |
| * timeless wants to write a photo import thing | 20:51 | |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: congrats! :) | 20:51 |
| GAN900 | lma, probably signed off for the evening. | 20:52 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: the Hildon libs are planned to be ported to MeeGo | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | planning is easy | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | doing, not so much | 20:52 |
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| lma | GAN900, yeah I figured. I'll take it to email | 20:52 |
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| GAN900 | Nokia donated a bunch of money to the GNOME Foundation to help. | 20:52 |
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| slonopotamus | lcuk: branch in meego?! why? | 20:53 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: I heard the other day that some guys already did it (or working on it?) | 20:53 |
| slonopotamus | MohammadAG51: patches suck, use proper repos | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: we've had call audio on a open stack, if that's what you're wondering.. | 20:53 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: no, I was talking about Hildon | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: oh | 20:54 |
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| Stskeeps | i ported hildon to stock gtk | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | making it nice is someone's else job | 20:55 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, sigh. with applications in maemo having a long life and not necessarily being rebuilt from scratch, being able to use them is a good tihng. and as for patches I mentioned, we are collectively looking at doing a clean upgradable SSU, better to put one foot infront of the other | 20:55 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: not Hildon-Desktop of course, just the liraries | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i kno | 20:55 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: although I myself was thinking about porting the destop too personally :) | 20:55 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: in the case if the Handset UX turns out to be not that good | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: smoku's doing that | 20:56 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: really? | 20:56 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: huh. the community should keep some sort of list about who's working on what :) | 20:56 |
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| johnsq | Re | 20:57 |
| mece1 | Stskeeps, so what's the difference between armv7l and armv5tel? | 20:57 |
| slonopotamus | mece1: instruction set | 20:57 |
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| mece1 | why am I mece1 I wonders... | 20:57 |
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| lcuk | Venemo, its just starting, make a list if you like, you are in #maemo-ssu :P | 20:57 |
| mece | slonopotamus, ok.. what do I want then? | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | mece: get armv7l | 20:58 |
| mece | Stskeeps, I was planning on doing that. | 20:58 |
| mece | Stskeeps, thanks | 20:58 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps: Venemo, lcuk, MohammadAG51, smoku could you _please not_ create again a conflicting set of patches but instead setup a single git repo (preferably taking ownership of abandoned hildon repos) and coordinate your efforts there? | 20:59 |
| mece | I hear the next one has better battery control. Perhaps I'll wait until.. wednesday is it? | 20:59 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: agreed :) but I'm not working on anything like this :) | 20:59 |
| slonopotamus | Venemo: you said you're planning to | 20:59 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, gitorious is not abandoned there are people with commit rights and when good patches come they will be merged and used | 21:00 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: I said if the Handset UX will not be good. Determining that is a few months ahead :) | 21:00 |
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| Venemo | slonopotamus: I have no free time even to finish Sticky Notes, so... :( | 21:00 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, so it's being claimed. | 21:03 |
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| GAN900 | Find its rather less likely to pan out so well given historical precedence. | 21:04 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: a wiki page would be nice where everyone could put their names and what they're working on | 21:05 |
| lcuk | GAN900, which historical precedence is that then? | 21:05 |
| lcuk | Venemo, sure, so start one | 21:06 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, Diablo. | 21:06 |
| Venemo | lcuk: me? really? | 21:06 |
| lcuk | diablo has had a rocking window manager upgrade recently | 21:06 |
| lcuk | Telescope is uber cool | 21:06 |
| Venemo | lcuk: what is it? | 21:07 |
| lcuk | gives the tiling app dashboard without needing 3d | 21:07 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:07 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: sounds good :) | 21:07 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, and that has what to do with Nokia, its contractors, or continued maintenance of its repositories? :) | 21:09 |
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| MiXu- | Tried android on an N900 today. Pretty smooth. | 21:09 |
| tybollt | nitdroid? | 21:10 |
| MiXu- | Yeah | 21:11 |
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| mece | oh man I hate upgrading my system. I'm still on linux mint 7.... | 21:12 |
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| mece | 9 being the current version-.. | 21:12 |
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| tobis87 | Hi! If anyone is interested I have got aes and sha1+md5 hardware acceleration working, with help from nokia. My driver was correct, but nolo needed to get updated. | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | which device? | 21:20 |
| tobis87 | n900 | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | nolo had to get updated to what? | 21:21 |
| tobis87 | it rebooted after module insertion, so after the nolo update it does not reboot anymore | 21:21 |
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| tobis87 | it needs at least hardware revision 2101. | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | do you happen to know if btrfs uses kernel acceleration facilities? | 21:23 |
| tobis87 | jacekowski: do you want to host it? | 21:23 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: No idea, I still use ext3 on all my machines. Ext4 and btrfs is still to unstable for me. | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: fair enough | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: got a link to the drivers? | 21:24 |
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| Stskeeps | tobis87: reason i'm asking is because we're being pushed to btrfs on meego and hardware acceleration in hashing is .. good | 21:25 |
| Pillum | hey, this may not be fitting in this channel but i didnt find a nokia channel | 21:26 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: That's a problem, I don't now where I should post it. I don't have a maemo talk account and no rapidshare. Best way, would be to mail it. | 21:26 |
| Pillum | so is there an offline way to install nokia pc suite? | 21:26 |
| Pillum | or is there a way to use tethering with n900 on windows 7 without nokia pc suite | 21:27 |
| Pillum | ? | 21:27 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: I could pastebin the drivers. But for nolo, I don't know. | 21:27 |
| timeless | pillum: once you use the n900 w/ pc suite once | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | no need re nolo | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | just curious what version of nolo it was :) | 21:27 |
| timeless | you don't need to use pc suite again | 21:27 |
| timeless | you don't need to use pc suite again | 21:27 |
| andre__ | Pillum: why would you want to use pc suite instead of ovi suite? | 21:27 |
| timeless | and in fact you don't want to | 21:27 |
| timeless | andre: smaller download | 21:27 |
| timeless | older crappy ui instead of newer crappy ui | 21:28 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: I will check tomorrow, but it's a new flasher: "flasher v2.8.2 (Jan 8 2010)" | 21:28 |
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| timeless | pillum: i think both give you a "modem" driver | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: we have a 2.6.35 kernel tree that can take submissions if that's interesting | 21:28 |
| timeless | and set up a basic connection w/ the right password | 21:28 |
| timeless | but otherwise, you don't need them | 21:29 |
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| timeless | it's probably possible to just download the driver | 21:29 |
| timeless | and manually create the network | 21:29 |
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| Stskeeps | tobis87: for n900 | 21:29 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: The original drivers http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=127246430512889&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=127246433512955&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=128231189201194&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-crypto-vger&m=128231189501202&w=2 | 21:30 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: I modified them to compile them as standalone modules | 21:31 |
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| nid0 | for what it's worth, i've never been able to get the modem cable driver working for my n900 on win7 | 21:32 |
| nid0 | when I tether I just have to do it via bluetooth | 21:32 |
| timeless | nid0: w7x86 or w7x64? | 21:33 |
| nid0 | x64 | 21:33 |
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| Pillum | timeless: i dont have nokia pc suite installed anymore...and the only way to go online is to use my handy | 21:33 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/drHnVb5j http://pastebin.com/hZmW1LYa | 21:34 |
| timeless | handy? | 21:34 |
| nid0 | Pillum: is bluetooth an option? if so, its easy to setup | 21:34 |
| Pillum | mobile phone | 21:34 |
| Pillum | nope thats not | 21:34 |
| timeless | pillum: so, the smaller download is the BT DUN bit for the n900 | 21:35 |
| timeless | i'd try that first | 21:35 |
| nid0 | no download atall's needed onto the pc for bluetooth, but he just said he has no bluetooth :p | 21:36 |
| Pillum | is there no offline installer? | 21:36 |
| timeless | pillum: most of us don't pay attn | 21:36 |
| nid0 | does the normal installer just fail with no net connection? | 21:36 |
| timeless | pcsuite iirc had an offline installer | 21:36 |
| tobis87 | Here are the kernel modules, including nolo. No need to flash a new kernel: http://rapidshare.com/files/414690756/omap-hw.tar.gz | 21:37 |
| timeless | which gave you an out of date not particularly n900 compat app | 21:37 |
| nid0 | I know it does an update check but assume it would carry on with the current version if it cant get connected | 21:37 |
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| timeless | then you do an update check which downloads a complete but slightly newer app installer | 21:37 |
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| nid0 | a slightly easier solution, if you have a wifi adaptor in your pc, might be to just use either mobilehotspot (which will need a replacement kernel on the device) or joikuspot light | 21:39 |
| lma | Hm do these look like they might be useable on OMAP2 devices or is it just me? | 21:39 |
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| BaTmAn^ | Stskeeps: around? I need your wisdom | 21:39 |
| BaTmAn^ | :D | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | BaTmAn^: how much are you paying for it? | 21:40 |
| tobis87 | lma: You have to check for the defines, but yes they should work on OMAP2 as well. | 21:40 |
| BaTmAn^ | I'll pay you with praise | 21:40 |
| BaTmAn^ | chocolate bar? | 21:40 |
| tobis87 | lma: but the nolo image is of course on compatible with the n900. | 21:40 |
| nid0 | I hear the praise exchange rate collapsed badly | 21:40 |
| BaTmAn^ | It'll be easy for you just I'm a sucker | 21:40 |
| timeless | http://www.nokiausa.com/get-support-and-software/software/nokia-pc-suites/compatibility-and-download#16 | 21:40 |
| timeless | claims it's 32mb | 21:41 |
| timeless | i sure hope that's an offline installer | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | BaTmAn^: easier to ask and have me ignore you, or answer and then invoice you | 21:41 |
| jacekowski | tobis87: nolo update? | 21:41 |
| jacekowski | tobis87: where you found new nolo? | 21:41 |
| BaTmAn^ | lol | 21:41 |
| BaTmAn^ | hourly rate? | 21:41 |
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| BaTmAn^ | Man, I come to the cleverest guy I know and theres no love no more :( | 21:43 |
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| BaTmAn^ | on a serious note, do you know any decent android app devlopers? | 21:44 |
| tobis87 | jacekowski: the mantainer of the new driver send it to me | 21:44 |
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| timeless | google? :) | 21:44 |
| BaTmAn^ | guess they're pretty good :D | 21:45 |
| lma | Any idea what's wrong with the old one? It seems strange that a driver loaded as a module would cause problems in NOLO | 21:45 |
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| * BaTmAn^ pesters ShadowJK too | 21:46 | |
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| BaTmAn^ | nm, figured it | 21:51 |
| BaTmAn^ | typo | 21:51 |
| BaTmAn^ | that could have been an easy chocolate bar | 21:51 |
| tobis87 | jacekowski: I sent you an email with the driver. | 21:53 |
| jacekowski | i'm more interested in nolo | 21:53 |
| jacekowski | btw. with that fmrx | 21:53 |
| jacekowski | have you tried echoing frequency directly into sysfs | 21:53 |
| jacekowski | instead of using v4l | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: is your n900 a retail one? | 21:53 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: it's HS chip that's important | 21:54 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: and how does bootloader configures m-shield settings | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | nolo's probably just a binary. | 21:54 |
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| jacekowski | because phone rebooting was probably because of incorrectly handled m-shield exception | 21:54 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2104 | 21:54 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: it is, but i will know more about m-shield because of it | 21:55 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Don't know, normally buyed. | 21:55 |
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| Stskeeps | tobis87: who was your nokia contact out of curiousity? | 21:57 |
| tobis87 | jacekowski: I have not used the fmrx more than once. I prefer a cd player with mp3 and optical connection. | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm from meego n900 hardware adaptation team, hence my interest) | 21:58 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Dmitry Kasatkin | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: k | 21:58 |
| BaTmAn^ | how expensive are these n900's? | 21:59 |
| Venemo | how can I create a newline in a wiki table? | 21:59 |
| tobis87 | jacekowski: But I'm not that mad and you silver cables. Copper cables with small diameter are good enough. | 22:00 |
| timeless | http://www.google.com/products?q=n900&aq=f | 22:00 |
| timeless | says under 400usd | 22:00 |
| Venemo | BaTmAn^: depends on where do you wanna buy it and whether you're looking for a used or a new one | 22:00 |
| jacekowski | ehh | 22:00 |
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| timeless | or maybe uer 300usd | 22:00 |
| jacekowski | it wasn't you with the problem | 22:00 |
| BaTmAn^ | I have a good refurb phone supplier | 22:00 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: Oli Pekka Bourne :D | 22:00 |
| Venemo | BaTmAn^: used prices are quite fair | 22:00 |
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| BaTmAn^ | I'll send them a mail | 22:01 |
| BaTmAn^ | is that the best to have? | 22:01 |
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| tobis87 | jacekowski: Sorry? | 22:01 |
| jacekowski | somebody had fmrx problem | 22:01 |
| jacekowski | and for a moment i was thinking it was you | 22:01 |
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| wazd | RST38h: around? | 22:04 |
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| nox- | moin | 22:14 |
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| jacekowski | hey kids | 22:14 |
| jacekowski | wanna see some shit | 22:15 |
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| jacekowski | RAM:40208052 LDR R0, =aNoloXLoaderV1_ ; "NOLO X-Loader (v1.4.14, Aug 18 2010)\n" | 22:15 |
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| jacekowski | RAM:40208052 LDR R0, =aNoloXLoaderV1_ ; "NOLO X-Loader (v1.4.14, Apr 22 2010)\n" | 22:15 |
| jacekowski | what's wrong with this picture? | 22:15 |
| kerio | jacekowski: hmm | 22:16 |
| kerio | two different dates? | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | nothing, you never heard of +m5 builds? | 22:16 |
| jacekowski | well, these are two different loaders | 22:17 |
| Venemo | nah guys, I've created the Who's doing what page in the wiki | 22:19 |
| Venemo | please, add yourself and your project | 22:19 |
| Venemo | http://wiki.maemo.org/Who_is_doing_what | 22:19 |
| Venemo | the guy who ports Hildon-Desktop to MeeGo should add himself, too | 22:20 |
| Venemo | the guys who said they're porting the Hildon libraries to MeeGo should as well | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | why though? it's a meego project | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:20 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: to allow community members to see if there is already someone doing it or not | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 22:21 |
| Venemo | (7:59:16 PM) slonopotamus: Stskeeps: Venemo, lcuk, MohammadAG51, smoku could you _please not_ create again a conflicting set of patches but instead setup a single git repo (preferably taking ownership of abandoned hildon repos) and coordinate your efforts there? | 22:21 |
| * Stskeeps ponders if his qt build stalled | 22:21 | |
| Venemo | this inspired | 22:21 |
| lcuk | Venemo, perhaps the naming is a little generic | 22:22 |
| lcuk | its not who is doing what | 22:22 |
| Venemo | lcuk: feel free to edit it :) | 22:22 |
| lcuk | its related to ssu/system packages? | 22:22 |
| lcuk | we have MANY people on many projects | 22:23 |
| lcuk | that have nothing to do with the ssu side of things | 22:23 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: well, good question | 22:24 |
| Venemo | lcuk: should it be? | 22:25 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: For what reason is openssl closed? Does it already have hw accel. enabled? openssl engine, only gives "dynamic engine loading support",but would be nice to get it enabled in there, too. | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: afaik it's not closed | 22:34 |
| lma | are there OMAP aes patches for openssl?! | 22:34 |
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| timeless | stskeeps: is it me or does "for what reason" sound too demanding (hinting of entitlement) | 22:35 |
| lma | yeah, it's open: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/o/openssl/ | 22:35 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Oh you right, I haven't seen the entry at the bottom. | 22:35 |
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| tobis87 | lma: No, but it will only be a matter of time. After the kernel driver is now availible. The padlock engine in openssl also took some time to have x86_64 and sha support. | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | lool: sure openssl can't just use kernel crypto algos? | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | er, tobis87 | 22:39 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: No, they are different. If you are interested, I had a hell of bug testing the padlock engine in openssl, nothing official but still: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9647303&postcount=488 | 22:40 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: And it all begun a year ago: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7167334&postcount=43 | 22:42 |
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| lma | tobis87: well, kernel and openssl support are orthogonal. I would *LOVE* an openssl engine for omap-aes. | 22:46 |
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| tobis87 | lma: yes, i would too. but i'm not a programmer. i can backport and hack stuff, but i have no idea how i should start. | 22:53 |
| ultrasparc-viii | start at the beginning | 22:53 |
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| tobis87 | ultrasparc-viii: the strange thing is, whenever i really wanted something to be done and nobody else was doing it, i did it somehow. but most of the time i'm lazy and say myself, why should i learn c the proper way, if everything essential has already been done by someone else. | 22:55 |
| ultrasparc-viii | in that case, instead of learning c, you learn python :) | 22:56 |
| johnsq | tobis87: that is a good way, learn by reading others code. | 22:56 |
| tobis87 | ultrasparc-viii: nah, i really love c, i love hacking kernel modules. | 22:57 |
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| ultrasparc-viii | you know after you learn 3 or 4 languages they all just become like different versions of a hammer... do you love c or do you love kernel programming - if you could do kernel work in perl would you still do it? | 22:58 |
| tobis87 | johnsq: yes, especially if you have to backport cve security update. | 22:59 |
| kerio | a kernel written in perl | 22:59 |
| kerio | UGH | 22:59 |
| ultrasparc-viii | hahaha, I'd never want to work on it! | 22:59 |
| ultrasparc-viii | and I've had my fair share of perl programming too | 22:59 |
| lma | tobis87: unless... is the omap-aes driver cryptodev by any chance? If so then openssl could use it | 22:59 |
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| tobis87 | or patching a module, like for example the hda_intel division by zero, http://xorl.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/linux-kernel-alsa-hda-intel-division-by-zero-crash/ | 23:01 |
| kerio | "cat /dev/urandom | perl" probably results in something that works | 23:01 |
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| tobis87 | ultrasparc-viii: i have the camel book here, but it is so big and i didn't needed a perl program until now. done most things with bash. | 23:02 |
| kerio | i mean, perl < /dev/urandom | 23:02 |
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| tobis87 | lma: i havn't heard of a cryptodev until now, but i don't think so. It's a crypto_ablkcipher_type, whatever that means, the kernel api changes so fast, it gets always harder to keep track of it. | 23:06 |
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| tobis87 | lma: as far as i understand it, you would have to patch programs to make use of the cryptodevice. you could of course patch openssl to use the cryptodevice, but this seems to me as a big mess. program -> openssl -> cryptodev -> kernel_module. it would be better to wait until program -> openssl is possible. if openssl supports it in meego, it could easily be backported. | 23:18 |
| GAN900 | timeless, probably the right approach given the lack of major progress with the reasonable approach. | 23:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 23:18 |
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| lma | I don't think meego will be any different, unless TI somehow surprise us in the next month or so | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | hm? | 23:20 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, about being too entitled. | 23:20 |
| lcuk | GAN900, Venemo has started a wiki page to collate contributions http://wiki.maemo.org/Who_is_doing_what | 23:22 |
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| tobis87 | lma: well stskeeps really shows interest in crypto stuff, so i do expect that they include hw accel. in openssl on the next device. | 23:23 |
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| Stskeeps | tobis87: i show interest cos we're kinda disadvantaged compared to aava in terms of speed of hashing etc | 23:24 |
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| pupnik | btw there's a job opening for applying the BG2 800x480 mod to gemrb :0 | 23:24 |
| lcuk | GAN900, would you care to give him some feeback and tips on good wiki editing stuff | 23:24 |
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| lma | Well, Nokia seems to be moving away from openssl (everything in Fremantle that can be built to use nss3 does) so I wouldn't hold my breath | 23:25 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, justification should always be to have something closed, not the reverse. ;) | 23:26 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: I would go for openssl 0.9.8k, it includes full hmac support. Could speed up ipsec as well. | 23:27 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: But the main problem is really, that you need a proper hw engine for openssl, every program would benefit from this. | 23:28 |
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| kerio | i want transformice on n900 | 23:30 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Every program would benefit from this, because you can force openssl to always use the hw engine: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4451121&postcount=2 http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4464165&postcount=4 | 23:36 |
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| kerio | tobis87: does that work on n900? | 23:37 |
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| tobis87 | kerio: no since we only have hw accel. kernel modules. it would be nice to have this in meego. | 23:38 |
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| tobis87 | kerio: and if it is availible in meego, we could easily backport the openssl engine to maemo. | 23:39 |
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| alterego | It's amazing how much more cpu is used when I use the Qt animations over my own .. | 23:42 |
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| alterego | Actually, this might be more to blame with my new widget | 23:44 |
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| alterego | I know the answer is probably no, but is it possible to get the cpu usage for the graphics chip? | 23:45 |
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