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| skyscraper | anyone can program an simple SPL DB-meter for n900? | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| mortini | probably? | 00:04 |
| mortini | anyone can do anything. | 00:04 |
| skyscraper | -.- | 00:05 |
| skyscraper | i CANT do that | 00:05 |
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| skyscraper | i CAN do that for windows with pascal xD... but not for n900 with c++ (qt) | 00:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | you don't have to do qt | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | you could even do a spl meter with awk + zenity | 00:07 |
| skyscraper | qt is easier than plain c++? | 00:07 |
| skyscraper | awk+zenity?? | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | zenity is a trivial program to show dialogs from scripts. | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | awk is a simple scripting language. | 00:08 |
| Shapeshifter | <3 awk | 00:08 |
| skyscraper | dont know how | 00:09 |
| mortini | could also use something like python or perl with zenity or whatever. | 00:09 |
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| luke-jr | Qt is easier than C++ IMO | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | but only in some cases | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | the right tool for the job, really | 00:10 |
| skyscraper | hm | 00:11 |
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| mortini | the most complex part of doing a spl meter is getting data from the microphone, it would seem | 00:11 |
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| mortini | in a meaningful way | 00:12 |
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| skyscraper | hm | 00:17 |
| skyscraper | its hard for me in pascal... so i CANT do it in c++ | 00:18 |
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| Shapeshifter | skyscraper: oh grow up | 00:20 |
| skyscraper | ? | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | My device is giving 'SIM registration failed' at somewhat random intervals. | 00:20 |
| Shapeshifter | skyscraper: step 1: read documentation on how to use the mic, step 2: write trivial application in python. Use this tutorial as a starting point: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/firstprograms/ | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Cleaning the SIM and adding a paper shim behind the holder has not worked. | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Does anyone have any thoughts? | 00:21 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, restarting usually fixes it. | 00:21 |
| GAN900 | At least here | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 00:21 |
| ToJa92 | [SpeedEvil]: Mine too, my SIM card is pretty weared though, it's probably 4 / 5 years old | 00:21 |
| skyscraper | SpeedEvil: having same problem sometimes | 00:21 |
| ToJa92 | wore out* | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | doesn't really help if I miss calls as my cell functrionality died | 00:22 |
| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: maybe get a new sim from your provider? | 00:22 |
| Pincy55 | on your side i would go to an office of my operator and make them as long probs till they give a new simcard | 00:23 |
| Pincy55 | for them its no thing to give u a card and bind it to your njumber | 00:23 |
| lardman | night all | 00:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | maybe | 00:24 |
| * SpeedEvil wanders round his providers website. | 00:25 | |
| TomaszD | SpeedEvil, are you talking about the n900? | 00:27 |
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| TomaszD | do you randomly get the "no-sim" icon in the status area? | 00:28 |
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| skyscraper | is there now the possibility to dump wlan with n900? | 00:30 |
| pupnik | 'dump wlan'? | 00:31 |
| skyscraper | airodump-ng | 00:31 |
| ShadowJK | I once got the "no sim" icon when it was just the operator fucking up | 00:31 |
| ShadowJK | and it went away without rebooting or reseating sim :/ | 00:31 |
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| kerio | airodump works | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | yes TomaszD | 00:32 |
| kerio | injection doesn't, yet | 00:32 |
| skyscraper | airodump yes aireplay no? | 00:32 |
| kerio | skyscraper: yup | 00:33 |
| TomaszD | SpeedEvil, yeah, your cellmo is dying | 00:33 |
| skyscraper | http://406notacceptable.com/guides/aircrack-on-the-n900/ how did he do it? | 00:33 |
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| TomaszD | try with another sim card SpeedEvil, but in a few days that nosim icon will be permanent | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | been doing it for a month or two | 00:34 |
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| TomaszD | oh | 00:34 |
| TomaszD | then that's different | 00:34 |
| GAN900 | Same here since September. | 00:34 |
| nox- | isnt aircrack in extras-devel nowadays? (you need power kernel tho afaik) | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | have you had that happen to you? | 00:34 |
| GAN900 | Not dead yet. | 00:35 |
| TomaszD | I've had my maemo summit device | 00:35 |
| TomaszD | 's cellmo die on me during the summit | 00:35 |
| TomaszD | with exactly the same symptoms | 00:35 |
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| Dantonic | hey guys I have a question. I had to send my N900 in for warranty repair, and I got it back a couple of days ago. They wiped everything on it and did a fresh install. I used to be able to run commands with the "sudo" command like "sudo reboot" stuff like that. I can no longer do it, it asks me for a password. I cannot remember for the life of me how to get rid of that password prompt | 00:36 |
| TomaszD | sent it back to Finland, got a replacement | 00:36 |
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| skyscraper | lol http://www.neopwn.com/store.php | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Dantonic: rootsh | 00:37 |
| TomaszD | Dantonic, install rootsh package | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | SpeedEvil, rootsh lets me do sudo gainroot | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | right? | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | not sudo command | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | you just type droot | 00:37 |
| TomaszD | yes, or just "root" | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | and you're root | 00:37 |
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| Dantonic | SpeedEvil, TomaszD but is there a way to enable the sudo command? at this point I'm just curious.... "root" is a lot better than "sudo gainroot" | 00:38 |
| TomaszD | well... you have to edit the sudoers file, but in order to do that you have to be root | 00:39 |
| skyscraper | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45472&page=31 ^^ | 00:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Dantonic: install rootsh package | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | TomaszD, I never did that in the beginning I'm curious to understand how I was able to run "sudo command" before they flashed the device... | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | SpeedEvil, I have it installed | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | "root" works | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | There are still bugs though. | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia-N900-02-8:~$ sudo make me a sandwitch | 00:40 |
| SpeedEvil | make: *** No rule to make target `me'. Stop. | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | haha | 00:41 |
| skyscraper | lol | 00:41 |
| TomaszD | Dantonic, rootsh enabled sudo for you | 00:41 |
| TomaszD | but sudo gainroot is deprecated | 00:41 |
| TomaszD | just use root | 00:41 |
| Dantonic | TomaszD, yes, I'm just saying the ability to just type "sudo" and a command after it right from the terminal | 00:42 |
| Dantonic | like you can do under ubuntu | 00:42 |
| Dantonic | for example | 00:42 |
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| Dantonic | I used to reboot my tablet all the time just typing "sudo reboot" | 00:42 |
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| Dantonic | without "rooting" it first | 00:43 |
| pupnik | you don't need 'sudo' on a system with real root | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | $ sudo reboot | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | + [ x6 = x-t ] | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | + touch /tmp/reboot | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 00:43 |
| pupnik | su -c 'command here' for example | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | It works | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | jusrt intall rootsh | 00:43 |
| skyscraper | sudo as root in n900 doesnt work | 00:44 |
| TomaszD | you had to have it "rooted" first, as sudo is disabled by default | 00:44 |
| Dantonic | SpeedEvil, rootsh is installed and it does not work for me. | 00:44 |
| Dantonic | it asks me for a password | 00:44 |
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| TomaszD | isn't the password "rootme" ? | 00:45 |
| guysoft22 | hey all, i have a strange problem on my N810! on my normal OS (on the memory card) the battary gauge does not show the correct charge (does not animate when charging). but in my backed up one in the internal memory card it works fine | 00:45 |
| skyscraper | r&d helps ;p | 00:45 |
| guysoft22 | did anyone come across this? | 00:45 |
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| Dantonic | skyscraper, u think maybe I used to have R&D mode enabled before? | 00:46 |
| skyscraper | nooo | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | that's why it worked that way without password request? | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | that might explain why the battery life is sooo much better now | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | :P | 00:46 |
| skyscraper | works without r&d ;) | 00:46 |
| guysoft22 | can someone please help me? its urgent for me to locate and fix this problem! | 00:46 |
| Pincy | is there a place where i can get help with the ja2 port? | 00:48 |
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| Dantonic | man what is this password that it asks for it's not "rootme | 00:48 |
| Dantonic | " | 00:48 |
| Dantonic | I set a password when I installed the SSH client/server but that doesn't work either | 00:48 |
| Dantonic | I think that's just a user password tho right? | 00:49 |
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| Dantonic | and I can't even SSH into the tablet | 00:50 |
| Dantonic | the password I set does not work | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | can you ping it? | 00:51 |
| Pincy | i had this problem only one time, i restarted terminal, and tried again "sudo gainroot" then it worked | 00:52 |
| Dantonic | I do ssh@ip and it prompts me to add RSA to list etc... then it asks for password | 00:52 |
| Dantonic | but pass doesnt work | 00:52 |
| Dantonic | err ssh user@ip | 00:52 |
| guysoft22 | might anyone know how the battery status works in the N810? something is making it show wrong readings on mine, while an older os i have installed works fine | 00:53 |
| Dantonic | guysoft22, maybe try asking in the forums u might have better luck if you can't get an answer here.... | 00:54 |
| guysoft22 | Dantonic, im flying to india in two days, just found it out now.. and i been searching with no mention of something like this | 00:54 |
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| Dantonic | guysoft22, have you tried installing one of the other apps that do battery monitoring? maybe that will work | 00:54 |
| guysoft22 | Dantonic, i just installed advanced power thing testing it while posting here | 00:55 |
| Dantonic | ya I use that on my N800 | 00:55 |
| guysoft22 | Dantonic, ok, the good news is it shows when it charges, which is an improvement.. i guess ill see if it shows fully charge tomorrow morning | 00:57 |
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| Dantonic | ok guysoft22 another option could be just making a backup of your settings and apps, and flashing the device... see if that works. Maybe your battery is starting to go bad as well. I am not an expert all here just so u know. | 01:00 |
| guysoft22 | Dantonic, i dont have time for that, its a problem :-/ | 01:00 |
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| lcuk | hello maemoers \o | 01:02 |
| Pincy | if someone here is touch with the problems the jagged alliance 2 port causes pls help me in the thread | 01:03 |
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| spinningcompass | Is there a standard "This program is loading" app that tells the user to wait until the app actually appears? PyQt apps can take 15-20 seconds to load. | 01:04 |
| lcuk | spinningcompass, an application can configure a fake cover screen | 01:04 |
| Dantonic | ok SpeedEvil, TomaszD, skyscraper I am a little dumb.. I was trying to ssh into user, but I kept chaing the password for root... so as root I did a passwd user and changed the password. now I can ssh into the N900... however now when I try to run a "sudo command" I get the message "Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/sbin/reboot' as root on Nokia-N900" | 01:05 |
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| Dantonic | now it doesnt even ask me for the password | 01:05 |
| Dantonic | it just says that | 01:05 |
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| zash | Dantonic: borked sudoers ? | 01:05 |
| Dantonic | zash idk I didn't touch it | 01:06 |
| lcuk | Dantonic, are you trying to "sudo /sbin/reboot" | 01:06 |
| Dantonic | well lcuk... I jsut got my N900 back from repair, the flashed it. I used to be able to run sudo commands like "sudo reboot"... now I can't do it anymore | 01:06 |
| Dantonic | with rootsh I can do root | 01:06 |
| Dantonic | but not with just a straight sudo command | 01:06 |
| Dantonic | it was asking me for a password when I would try | 01:07 |
| Dantonic | I had installed the ssh server/client | 01:07 |
| Dantonic | and set a password for the server | 01:07 |
| Dantonic | honestly I'm not sure what I'm doing lcuk | 01:07 |
| Dantonic | :P | 01:07 |
| lcuk | sounds reasonable, I dont think I have ever tried to sudo from user | 01:08 |
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| nox- | id say you need to add an entry for reboot to sudoers, heres a manpage: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=sudoers&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.1-RELEASE+and+Ports&format=html | 01:08 |
| Dantonic | used to work for me since I bought the thing... that's how I would always reboot my device "sudo reboot" | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10307 GAN900 | 01:08 |
| povbot | Bug 10307: Unregistered SIM error | 01:08 |
| lcuk | nox-, nahhh adding an entry into sudoers is different | 01:09 |
| Dantonic | nox-, ya but that's not the point... I used to always be able to run commands like that... like when wanting to edit a file: "sudo leafpad file.txt" | 01:09 |
| lcuk | at least for a specific call like that | 01:09 |
| Dantonic | or "sudo apt-get install package" | 01:09 |
| Dantonic | without having to root first | 01:09 |
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| Dantonic | just wondering why I cannot do it anymore | 01:09 |
| nox- | oh well then you want to allow sudo globally like on ubuntu... | 01:10 |
| lcuk | Dantonic, you are missing sudser | 01:10 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | I thought sudser was no longer available for N900 | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | is it available? | 01:10 |
| lcuk | idk | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | that's what that link says | 01:10 |
| lcuk | but that does what you are after | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | and I cannot find it in the repositories | 01:10 |
| lcuk | perhaps you have had it from start | 01:10 |
| Dantonic | and now I don't :( | 01:11 |
| Dantonic | :*( | 01:11 |
| Dantonic | how sad | 01:11 |
| Dantonic | It is not currently available for Fremantle (i.e. N900). | 01:11 |
| GAN900 | rootsh works well enough | 01:11 |
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| nox- | oh wow i didnt know about /etc/sudoers.d ... thats even different again then o_O | 01:12 |
| Jef91 | So my firefox mobile randomly stopped loading today on my n900. Anyone know the command to launch it from cli so I can see what is wrong? | 01:13 |
| Jef91 | So my firefox mobile randomly stopped loading today on my n900. Anyone know the command to launch it from cli so I can see what is wrong? | 01:13 |
| * nox- so far only edited sudoers on non-n900 :P | 01:13 | |
| lcuk | Dantonic, its on diable and chinook repositories | 01:13 |
| lcuk | if it installs happily for you | 01:13 |
| lcuk | perhaps you could follow it up and push to fremantle for everyone | 01:14 |
| Dantonic | what if I wanted to run a command from an applet or something that needs that sudo how could I do it then? | 01:14 |
| Dantonic | lcuk I have no idea how to do that | 01:14 |
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| lcuk | ok Dantonic I can point you to the repository but since its for the old OS and its not been pushed to fremantle theres no confidence it will work and it might bork your system etc | 01:16 |
| Dantonic | lcuk that's ok thanks for trying but I don't want to risk that | 01:16 |
| * lcuk nods | 01:16 | |
| Dantonic | I just got it back from repair because it was "borked" | 01:16 |
| lcuk | yeah thought as much | 01:16 |
| nox- | theres an ff version in ovi store too | 01:16 |
| * lcuk will test it | 01:17 | |
| nox- | (or is that one outdated as well?) | 01:17 |
| Dantonic | I just don't get how I could do it before.... heh what a mystery! | 01:17 |
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| * lcuk just installed sudser and from x-terminal did "sudo reboot" | 01:18 | |
| lcuk | which before would not let me | 01:18 |
| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/s/sudser/sudser_0.2.0-2_all.deb | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Dantonic: you want | 01:19 |
| * lcuk ponders how to submit now to fremantle | 01:19 | |
| SpeedEvil | Dantonic: queen-beecon | 01:19 |
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| Dantonic | lcuk who knows maybe I installed that back in the day... and can't remember hehehe | 01:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Has anyone installed syslogd | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I've installed it. | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | On inspection of the syslog it says it's logging to /home/user/var/log/syslogd | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | but it's not | 01:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | hmm | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Killing it manually and restarting makes it do the right thing. | 01:25 |
| * SpeedEvil is confused. | 01:25 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I always thought *#-enabler would be the most minimal 'pkg* possible. But sudser? c'mon | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: probably it's started too early? | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: btw killing isn't necessary, think kill -SIGxxx rereads the config, should suffice | 01:27 |
| lcuk | Dantonic, potentially, as SpeedEvil says queenbeecon gives lots of nice features, try than | 01:27 |
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| Dantonic | looks complicated | 01:28 |
| Dantonic | I'll have to read the wiki for it | 01:29 |
| Dantonic | but in the meanwhile u should work on sudser!! :) | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Dantonic: man sudoers; | 01:30 |
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| lcuk | Dantonic, I have no personal need for it | 01:31 |
| lcuk | I just ssh root@localhost | 01:31 |
| lcuk | whenever I need anything | 01:31 |
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| lcuk | I am happy to leave sudo as it stands | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | man visudo | 01:32 |
| lcuk | is it already in maemo? | 01:32 |
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| lcuk | ie keeping it simple :P | 01:32 |
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| kerio | queen beecon is :3 | 01:33 |
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| kerio | still haven't found a use for it, but meh | 01:33 |
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| lcuk2 | Dantonic, I am sending a mail to its maintainer :) its a long shot but might be ok | 01:37 |
| Dantonic | cool | 01:37 |
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| lcuk2 | Dantonic, can you PM me your mail address please and I will cc you into the mail | 01:42 |
| lcuk2 | and you can poke me in a while if nothing happens ;) | 01:42 |
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| lcuk2 | ok Dantonic you have the mail now I hope, I *will* forget about this, so since you are eager to have its functionality you can poke me | 01:45 |
| Dantonic | ok ty | 01:45 |
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| skyscraper | . | 01:46 |
| skyscraper | ~ping | 01:46 |
| infobot | ~pong | 01:46 |
| skyscraper | ok | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Dantonic: root; echo -e "Defaults targetpw\nuser ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL" >/etc/sudoers.d/dantonic_special | 01:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Dantonic: root; echo "user ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL" >/etc/sudoers.d/dantonic_special | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | even | 01:47 |
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| lcuk2 | and DocScrutinizer having that as a package is 100000000% better | 01:47 |
| lcuk2 | because in 6 months time when he reinstalls he could just restore a backup and get it back | 01:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer cackles | 01:48 | |
| lcuk2 | with your method he iwll forget | 01:48 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: s/dantonic_special/massive_security_hole/ | 01:48 |
| * lcuk2 loves the fact we *can* do scripts like that | 01:48 | |
| lcuk2 | but hate to see them relied on by others | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: exactly my point | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: roots is as well | 01:48 |
| nox- | kerio, yeah just like ubuntu as i said :) | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | rootsh | 01:48 |
| lcuk2 | DocScrutinizer, really? | 01:48 |
| Dantonic | ty DocScrutinizer I wrote that down... gtg now ttyl everyone | 01:49 |
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| lcuk2 | if you give user the physical device anyway its game over | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:49 |
| nox- | yeah rootsh also doesnt ask for pw | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | but giving malware uncontrolled access to root via a compromised user account is a different thing | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk2: ^^^ | 01:50 |
| kerio | nox-: ubuntu asks for a password | 01:50 |
| nox- | mm ok | 01:50 |
| kerio | i still don't get why passwording the user account results in a bootloop | 01:50 |
| lcuk2 | so how to implement the ubuntu like | 01:50 |
| kerio | i mean, i can figure why | 01:50 |
| skyscraper | is there any malware trojan etc for n900 already? | 01:50 |
| kerio | but COME ON, it's ridiculous | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: root; echo -e "Defaults targetpw\nuser ALL = (ALL) ALL" >/etc/sudoers.d/dantonic_special | 01:50 |
| lcuk2 | ask once in 5mins approach | 01:50 |
| kerio | you should allow for it | 01:50 |
| luke-jr | skyscraper: maybe ;) | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk2: ^^^ | 01:51 |
| lcuk2 | pointing to some mystic runes does not explain | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: root; echo -e "Defaults targetpw\nuser ALL = (ALL) PASSWD: ALL" >/etc/sudoers.d/dantonic_special; #if you like it explicit | 01:51 |
| lcuk2 | is the functionality already built in? | 01:51 |
| lcuk2 | but just needs enabling with that incantation? | 01:51 |
| skyscraper | hm | 01:52 |
| kerio | lcuk2: huh? | 01:52 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: you also need to run update-sudoers | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | ok fine I admit it | 01:52 |
| skyscraper | anyone knows anything about "advanced power monitor" | 01:52 |
| lcuk2 | ubuntu asks for root password if you havent entered it in last ~5minutes | 01:52 |
| skyscraper | ? | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | anyone who's updated their extras in the last month is now streaming me live webcam video and GPS coords | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh? wtf is update-sudoers? | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, yep | 01:52 |
| skyscraper | lol | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems some noob didn't realize man sudoers | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | The #includedir directive can be used to create a sudo.d directory that the system package manager can drop | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sudoers rules into as part of package installation. For example, given: | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | #includedir /etc/sudoers.d | 01:53 |
| skyscraper | "advanced power monitor" from extras does nothing, only cpu 100%.... why? | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh the config of sudo is on par with everything else on maemo :-S | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | like e.g | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 01:54 |
| infobot | well, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk2: was that about runes and "is it implemented" to me? | 01:57 |
| lcuk2 | nm | 01:58 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: ssssh, don't spoil the fun | 01:58 |
| * lcuk2 is wandering off for a shower | 01:58 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer as well :-D | 02:00 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer just points to concept of %wheel for a last rant, prior to shower | 02:01 | |
| * mortini removes DocScrutinizer from wheel | 02:01 | |
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| * skyscraper goes to bed - gn8 | 02:04 | |
| nox- | gn8 skyscraper | 02:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer stares at /usr/sbin/update-sudoers, scratches head and wonders how's that gonna be smarter than #includedir /etc/sudoers.d | 02:20 | |
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| Mrlehey | hi | 02:33 |
| Mrlehey | any nitdriod experts here? i cant get usb working :( | 02:33 |
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| crashanddie | Mrlehey: #nitdroid and #nitdroid-help will probably be more useful | 02:41 |
| Mrlehey | thanks crashanddie | 02:43 |
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| kerio | nitdroid has usb host working? :o | 02:49 |
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| Pincy | how can i use the usbhost app? is there anywhere an adapter to buy? | 02:51 |
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| kerio | usb host still doesn't work | 02:56 |
| kerio | and yeah, you'll need an adaptor | 02:57 |
| kerio | female usb A - female usb A | 02:57 |
| kerio | connect standard cable, plug adapter | 02:57 |
| kerio | ??? | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil1 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host | 02:57 |
| kerio | usb port! | 02:57 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | It does not yet work | 02:57 |
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| kerio | SpeedEvil: how would the autodetect of a usb device work? | 02:59 |
| kerio | i mean in theory | 02:59 |
| kerio | without the hardware otg support | 02:59 |
| kerio | a button in the power menu that switches between device mode and host mode? | 02:59 |
| kerio | (also, what happens when two on-the-go devices connect togheter?) | 03:01 |
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| luke-jr | kerio: only one end of an OTG cable is configured as Host | 03:05 |
| kerio | luke-jr: oh, you need a particular cable? | 03:06 |
| kerio | wtf | 03:06 |
| luke-jr | …yes | 03:06 |
| kerio | usb host mode ftfw then | 03:07 |
| luke-jr | kerio: USB always has a Host end and a Device end… | 03:07 |
| luke-jr | OTG cables are no different in this regard | 03:07 |
| kerio | luke-jr: female-to-female adaptors do exist | 03:08 |
| kerio | i just assumed you could use one of those to use OTG | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | micro-A end with ID pin grounded (host side) <-> micro-B end (device) | 03:08 |
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| crashanddie | how bad is it to be hitting on my bank manager? | 03:11 |
| kerio | crashanddie: what are you using to hit? | 03:11 |
| kerio | it depends | 03:12 |
| kerio | if it's sharp or heavy, it's bad | 03:12 |
| mortini | crashanddie: she just wants your money. | 03:12 |
| mortini | or he. | 03:12 |
| crashanddie | actually, I'm thinking she wants more than just that | 03:12 |
| mortini | unlike most people, though, she already knows you have it. | 03:12 |
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| kerio | she wants your long and hard... loan | 03:13 |
| mortini | i went to open an bank account somewhere. the lady was so-so, and after they opened the account, they ran whatever and she all of a sudden was really flirty and nice with me. | 03:13 |
| kerio | also post pics | 03:13 |
| kerio | both of you | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-USB#USB-Stecker_und_-Kabel 3rd table | 03:14 |
| crashanddie | kerio: well, I basically emailed her to try and buy her lunch tomorrow | 03:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: not that kind of pics | 03:14 |
| mortini | crashanddie: good luck, man | 03:14 |
| kerio | ._. | 03:14 |
| crashanddie | I called her earlier today, and saw her as I had to swing by real quick, but well... | 03:15 |
| crashanddie | mortini: thing is... I have a girlfriend | 03:15 |
| mortini | oh, well. | 03:15 |
| mortini | so, uhm, nevermind. crashanddie :P | 03:15 |
| kerio | crashanddie: you're a bad person | 03:15 |
| crashanddie | I'm trying to figure out whether what I'm doing is cheating or not | 03:15 |
| kerio | srsly | 03:15 |
| crashanddie | cuz, nothing happened, and nothing explicit has been said | 03:16 |
| crashanddie | it's not like I'm meeting up in a dodgy hotel for a 30 minute sex session | 03:16 |
| mortini | dies is a bit extreme, but it was tabbed. | 03:16 |
| kerio | crashanddie: are you happy with your girlfriend? | 03:16 |
| crashanddie | well, yeah, but I don't see it going anywhere | 03:17 |
| kerio | then wtf are you doing | 03:17 |
| mortini | kerio: http://timconrad.org/download/attachments/589939/DSCI0028.JPG <- a picture | 03:17 |
| kerio | that's a nice pic | 03:17 |
| crashanddie | the gf is a student, no idea what she wants in life, fucked up family, easily offended and very insecure | 03:17 |
| kerio | so you're not happy with her | 03:17 |
| crashanddie | well, I like her | 03:18 |
| kerio | so you are happy | 03:18 |
| crashanddie | I dunno | 03:18 |
| crashanddie | this one is a bank manager at age 28, has the most beautiful eyes I've seen in a long time, definitely knows what she wants and where she's headed, shares a shitload of hobbies with me, isn't quite as insecure, and seems to have a normal family | 03:19 |
| kerio | it's up to you, really | 03:19 |
| kerio | just don't try this thing with the bank manager before clearing up things with your current gf | 03:20 |
| kerio | it's being an asshole | 03:20 |
| crashanddie | thing is... my gf is my sister's flatmate, and my mum's kind of adopted her | 03:20 |
| crashanddie | nha mate, I'm not such a dick | 03:20 |
| crashanddie | I want to see her again, see if she was just flirting with me so I would sign up for the credit card while eyeing her cleavage or if she's really interested | 03:21 |
| kerio | boobies! | 03:21 |
| crashanddie | and beautiful at that | 03:21 |
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| SkyscraperN900 | hi | 05:45 |
| mortini | ohai. | 05:46 |
| SkyscraperN900 | MohammadAG51 no new ubuntu upload this night anymore? | 05:46 |
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| SkyscraperN900 | hm nothing new on the space ;( | 05:49 |
| SkyscraperN900 | hm. i go to bed.... byebye | 05:49 |
| mortini | ta | 05:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nihao | 05:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe nothing new, but a nice ISS flyby at -3.5 magnitude | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and N900 comes in handy to watch http://esa.heavens-above.com/ | 05:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if the've seen the green "ground control to major tom" | 05:55 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | moin raster | 06:04 |
| mortini | raster smells like poo! | 06:05 |
| raster | PONG! | 06:05 |
| * raster flings poo @ mortini | 06:05 | |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: boo | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 06:05 |
| * mortini ducks. | 06:06 | |
| * mortini whips out umbrella. | 06:06 | |
| mortini | ha! | 06:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LASERS | 06:07 |
| mortini | PEW PEW! | 06:08 |
| kagesenshi|n900 | O_O | 06:08 |
| mortini | raster: can you give me a window manager with more LASER BEAMS? i've been looking for one. | 06:08 |
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| DoctorWaves | 535nm, 0.15W is *lame* | 06:10 |
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| DoctorWaves | ISS will never notice :-S | 06:10 |
| mortini | raster: preferably with sharks, too. | 06:10 |
| DoctorWaves | sharks don't fit | 06:11 |
| mortini | lies! | 06:11 |
| mortini | they make room! | 06:11 |
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| * DocScrutinizer shoots a tiny hole into mortini's trousers with that 0.15W 535nm laser | 06:13 | |
| mortini | DocScrutinizer: oobaby. you tease. | 06:14 |
| * b-man|laptop yawns | 06:15 | |
| mortini | indeed. | 06:15 |
| mortini | i'm out of vodka. | 06:15 |
| mortini | it sucks. | 06:15 |
| mortini | I have some tequila, but not sure i'm man enough to drink it. | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | sissi | 06:16 |
| dmj726_devel | Who maintains the Pidgin port? | 06:17 |
| raster | mortini: sorry. my poo flinging monkeys ate all my spare sharks | 06:17 |
| mortini | raster: jerk :( | 06:17 |
| mortini | well. | 06:18 |
| mortini | raster: jerk monkeys :( | 06:18 |
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| * DocScrutinizer yawns | 06:20 | |
| mortini | DocScrutinizer: what TZ do you live in? | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | my very own | 06:21 |
| mortini | seems so :) | 06:21 |
| mortini | raster: my memory is cloudy, did you used to hang out on #slashdot on the slashdot net in, uh, like '97/98? | 06:22 |
| luke-jr | has anyone tried to put their N900 inside a N810 shell? | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd say Pacific American | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | shell, like ??? | 06:22 |
| mortini | DocScrutinizer: just curious, because you seem to have somewhat similar active ranges as me. | 06:23 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: the externals :P | 06:23 |
| luke-jr | especially screen & kb | 06:23 |
| * luke-jr wonders if the LCD cable is the same | 06:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: sorry still don't get it - there's been a pouch coming with N810 | 06:24 |
| b-man|laptop | i'd be doubtful | 06:24 |
| mortini | ugh. tequila. | 06:24 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: putting the N900 board into a N810 | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way | 06:24 |
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| luke-jr | well, I'd remove the N810 board obviously | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | LCD main FPC won't fit | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | ☹ | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | oh well | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | Nokia's N9 keyboard thing looks a LITTLE saner at least | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | but still only 3 rows… | 06:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | compare http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00264_jpg.jpeg.html and http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/n900/images/IMG_1941.JPG | 06:26 |
| * b-man|laptop thought he saw 4, unless you exclude the spacebar, sym, ctrl, and directional keys | 06:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf N9? | 06:27 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: honestly, those look the same to me… | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe they look same to you, but I'm not sure they are. Had to check to make absolutely sure | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | humm... | 06:29 |
| raster | mortini: god,. maybe. my memory would be hazy on that so far back | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: not sure they are, or are sure they're not? | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | they *could* be compatible, at least from walking down all the interfaces that go to N81/900 screen half | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | b-man|laptop: my bad, they DO have 4 | 06:30 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: Nokia N9: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/08/10x08108h3434tf.jpg | 06:30 |
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| mortini | raster: haha. yeah. I have memories of you and mandrake in that era, not sure if you hung out in #slashdot or if it was just in my mind. | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmmmpff | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | grrrmmbl | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 has internal pic | 06:32 |
| raster | mortini: i am sure i hung out on some irc | 06:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | such a nice design, and still so fscked up | 06:32 |
| raster | it may have been efnet | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | but not of the connector | 06:32 |
| raster | i may have been on #slashdot | 06:32 |
| raster | but too hazy | 06:32 |
| mortini | those two aren't mutually exclusive :)yeah | 06:32 |
| mortini | er, sorry | 06:32 |
| mortini | yeah | 06:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277338 *W*T*F*!?! same crappy SMT USB receptacle, but even more monstrous plug?? | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | have fun Nokia | 06:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, no stylus - of course, for c-ts - no kbd backlight... Shiny but I guess I don't like it | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | bat lid screwed on :-o | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, bat lid says "Proto B2" :-P | 06:44 |
| b-man|laptop | keep in mind that this is also a prototype ;) | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | the final model might be made of cheese and have shape of a banana | 06:45 |
| b-man|laptop | rofl | 06:45 |
| mortini | and the LUBE | 06:45 |
| mortini | man, i like my n900 for a number of reasons, but i dislike it for a number of reasons, too :I | 06:45 |
| luke-jr | c-ts? | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | bet its c | 06:46 |
| b-man|laptop | captive touchscreen | 06:46 |
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| b-man|laptop | DocScrutinizer: a banana phone! :D | 06:46 |
| luke-jr | c-ts would increase the need for them to ship a stylus IMO | 06:46 |
| luke-jr | since you can't use just any old pointy object | 06:46 |
| mortini | b-man|laptop: ringringringringringringringringring | 06:46 |
| mortini | b-man|laptop: i have my hunches :) | 06:46 |
| b-man|laptop | hehe | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no such thing like exactly a stylus for c-ts - there's wieners though | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | like the eraser top end of a pencil | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you call that stylus, well then... | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever you use, no use in 'pointy objects' as c-ts has much too low resolution and accuracy | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.heise.de/ct/inhalt/2010/17/122/ | 06:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the way c-ts works you need a _touch_area_ of at least 7mm diameter, with usually opaque conducting material. No way to include such a "stylus" to N9 any reasonable way - and no use in it as well | 06:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.marions-kochbuch.de/index-bilder/wiener-wuerstchen.jpg :-P | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | best ever stylus for c-ts | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe Nokia can ship N9 with mustard built in | 06:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders idly about the ~50k trolls filling up the assumed N9 thread on tmo, probably on page 756463 now - burrrp | 07:03 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | OMFG - ...and the kbd mat seems to be dead flesh rubber | 07:29 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 08:05 | |
| mortini | indeedy. | 08:07 |
| e-yes | tmo is down? | 08:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hooray | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | morn DocScrutinizer | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | morn Stskeeps | 08:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | pest control closed tmo? :-P | 08:36 |
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| Stskeeps | hopefully | 08:37 |
| koala_man | is it pulseaudio that allows switching audio from the speakers to the FM transmitter on the fly? | 08:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer just musing over Project Coach-DEV00000016 | 08:38 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | koala_man: yep | 08:40 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: anything relevant to you? | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | feels a bit less like a missmatch - compared to others there | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | koala_man: to be more specific, it's probably the policy engine and policy enforcement module that do those on-the-fly switches | 08:45 |
| koala_man | is that a maemo thing or a pulseaudio thing? | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | koala_man: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf might help a bit | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | your question however is hard to answer | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | If I had to pick ne, I'd say maemo thing | 08:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tbh I probably have no clue, and best you look at source code of any app doing that switching. E.g. FMradio can switch, and afaik it's oss | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | open source software, not open sound system | 08:50 |
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| koala_man | phew | 08:50 |
| * Stskeeps wonders if open source fundamentalists is just a bad a thing for open source as religious fundamentalists are for religion | 08:51 | |
| ieatlint | i believe you set a default audio output device with the pulseaudio api | 08:51 |
| ieatlint | Stskeeps: yes, although fewer people die | 08:51 |
| koala_man | Stskeeps: religious fundamentalists are good for religion | 08:51 |
| koala_man | they're the ones who are religious | 08:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but the aggressive ones? :P | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | like, insisting others should follow their way | 08:52 |
| koala_man | they're bad for peace and society, but good for religion | 08:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and religion is good for... whom now? | 08:52 |
| ieatlint | the pope | 08:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you're thinking of RMS? | 08:52 |
| ieatlint | that should be a swear word | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | RMS? | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 08:53 |
| ieatlint | yes | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I had the plreasure to never meet him X-D | 08:53 |
| ieatlint | and yet i'm sure he's still left a scar on you | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet | 08:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | had to learn his mantras by heart when I was responsible for choosing HW components that may come with firmware, like WLAN, BT, dunno what | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: in this particular case, the reactions to not opening BME and in general, people not understanding that all nokia source starts out as closed source and what comes out of open sourcing process is untainted by patents, future copyright claims, etc.. | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | *nod* & *sigh* | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | i have trouble with freedom fighting people that insist you must have freedom or have thrown tomatoes at you.. that's not freedom in my view | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd be half that concerned about closed BME if it came with proper 'API' doc | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | define API doc | 08:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer knew he'd ask that :-S :-P | 08:59 | |
| Stskeeps | what -is- happening, however, is that BME is going redistributable | 08:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, first of all BME *has no* API. :-D | 08:59 |
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| Stskeeps | and i think it should be possible to get the BME communication protocol opened to some extent, as we need that in meego | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, for a WLAN module you might have FW blobs or even kernel or userland closed drivers | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | right, at least with kernel we keep that open | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you get a decent API specifying how to talk to the whole blackbox, and usually you'd also want a abstract explanation of how the blackbox works, at least to a degree so you understand what the API calls really are doing | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 09:02 |
| Stskeeps | well, do you (honestly) need more than information gathering APIs? | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | then get a foss linux wrapper around the blob, so you can recompile for new kernels / systems | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | (heh, I'm coaching again, don't I?) | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | nah, constructive conversation | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, just had a peek at my stack ;-) | 09:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ( information gathering APIs) could you rephrase please? | 09:05 |
| Stskeeps | well, accessors not mutators | 09:05 |
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| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol for instance | 09:05 |
| odin_ | up already! tis Saturday! | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, there's probably a lot inside there | 09:06 |
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| Stskeeps | i think what is really most important is that the blob is maintained. | 09:06 |
| Stskeeps | and problems with it noticed and dealth it. | 09:06 |
| Stskeeps | dealt | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | but, for example, it's completely unclear how BME manages to have such crappy capacity guestimates, and also the picture at large isn't clear what bme actually does | 09:07 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 09:08 |
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| Stskeeps | okay, so, let's imagine you were a regular user/developer/perhaps image generator for meego in general | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | what matters to you in this case? | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | 1) the blob works | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | wrt to e.g throttling clock and / or charge current on overtemp. How it deals with battery errors and special conditions, etc pp | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | 2) you can redistribute the blob without getting your pants sued off | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | 3) you can access information/get notifications on charging and battery state | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | .. what else is there? | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, but you know (I know you know) BME needs to know about USB ENUM etc | 09:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | charger detect | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | charger detect is actually oss | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | a lot of shit outside BME primary domain | 09:10 |
| TermanaN900 | yello | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | punk | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | moaning TermanaN900 | 09:11 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/8/19/30 | 09:11 |
| e-yes | Stskeeps, is it possible to use BME API somehow... to receive async messages (about battery capacity changes, charging status) without polling? | 09:11 |
| odin_ | I agree with the blob is ok with conditions such as that, document what it is, what is does and how to interact with it, minimize the blob part as much as possible by reducing the scope as far as possible | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: 'what it does' is OK in high level abstractions? otherwise it might as well just be source code | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | e-yes: yes | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | e-yes: hopefully we'll see more of that code in meego | 09:12 |
| odin_ | the maintenance aspect is about making sure it always conforms to the documentation (so both kernel / user-space and its API / interaction) | 09:13 |
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| Stskeeps | e-yes: hald-addon-bme (real one) does it like that | 09:14 |
| odin_ | yes if there is some IP inside it, that would not be documented, however the application should try to minimize all the stuff around that IP as much as possible like a wet-suit (i.e. reducing the scope) not huge monolithic blob with a tiny bit of IP | 09:14 |
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| Stskeeps | wb DocScrutinizer, saw my latest url? | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | lkml? | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so? | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's clearly USB-musb-core domain, and BME shouldn't rely on that or put special demand on it | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: not disagreeing a layer would be nice | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | mmpf, friggin freenet servers | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: well, USB transceiver | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompls, catching up in chanlog | 09:16 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i think first off we need to get it redistributable but that's obviously never the end of the story | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | as there'll be practical concerns, like, how to interface to get battery info in an open manner, etc | 09:17 |
| odin_ | yes any progress in the right direction is welcomed, even if it is far from fantastic | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | we don't like blobs in meego on n900, they're horribly impractical for us | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:18 |
| odin_ | I wonder if Trusted Execution can be wrapped up like this too? I just see mobile malware being a problem and I guess Intel will soon (within the next 3 years) have an open offering | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | odin_: I fail to see how the whole "TP" / TE concept will help on that | 09:20 |
| odin_ | DocScrutinizer, did not read my reply on that topic before, why is DRM good reply | 09:20 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: afaik AEGIS will be oss | 09:20 |
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| odin_ | well those questions can be asked later anyhow, its too early on that right now | 09:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure there are several techniques to block some malware from infecting a executable or even the kernel, but all those are around for quite some time, and TPM / DRM isn't anything that'd give a new leverage to the problem, except when restricting user's rights | 09:23 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: freerunner had a 3d chip or how was it? | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | glamo was a errr... 2.5D chip | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | how was licensing? | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | awkward | 09:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even affiliated personal wasn't allowed to see the 1500p docs | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | i think landscape is slowly changing atm at least, i mean, personally i'm happy to have redistributable SGX libraries | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | i don't care much for the source | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, as long as they behave | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | i kinda like that there's a shade of 'must be maintained or perish' feeling in meego | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | kinda like kernel mainline | 09:27 |
| odin_ | well AMD have finally completed on their statement (re graphics card drivers) if the headline is true | 09:28 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: mm? | 09:28 |
| odin_ | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_evergreen_3d&num=1 "Open-Source 2D, 3D For ATI Radeon HD 5000 Series GPUs" | 09:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hrhrhrr, they finally managed to clean out all the benchmark cheating? :-P | 09:30 |
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| odin_ | Shh! it is called Intellectual Property....hmm... I wonder if BME makes your matter look bigger ? OSS replacement bme_viagra ? | 09:31 |
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| Stskeeps | at least i'm happy to see that landscape is really changing. i mean, before meego announcement i wouldn't be forseen nokia kernel developers discussing bme interfaces publically in a irc channel along with redistributable powervr libraries from intel, or even n900 drivers getting upstreamed properly :) | 09:34 |
| Stskeeps | so there seems to be a will to change the status quo. | 09:34 |
| odin_ | Woot to the Stskeeps cattle pod (aka Mer) | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | i think part of it is that intel did not bend on that we have to follow upstream, easy to get lazy otherwise | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite sensible notion on that, of those in charge to decide. In the end the maintenance is a never ending PITA | 09:35 |
| odin_ | just need to wring out the SSSE3 matter properly at Intel now | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: even for OSS it's a PITA | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:35 |
| e-yes | Stskeeps, Unable to find a source package for hald-addon-bme | 09:36 |
| * RST38h yawns | 09:36 | |
| RST38h | ehlo all | 09:36 |
| odin_ | have another hour in bed | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | e-yes: bingo | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 09:37 |
| odin_ | 220-Hello RST38h, go back to bed\n220-LAZYMODE\n220-SLEEPNOW\n220 Have a nice day! | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i personally see the SSSE3 battle as lost cos application SDKs will build for SSSE3 by default. | 09:38 |
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| odin_ | Hmm I don't, 1) there is still time to fix it, 2) I expect to be able to roll a complete MeeGo 1.1 (for i386/i686/n8x0) before release/summit | 09:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's that SSSE3 thing? why shouldn't it be used, or what else was it I didn't get? | 09:40 |
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| RST38h | SSSE3 is the streaming extensions to the SSE3 instruction set | 09:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yepyep | 09:40 |
| RST38h | SSE3 is the Intel instruction set for floating point / pseudo parallel computations | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with it? | 09:41 |
| odin_ | the issue for me boils down to Intel choosing to make "i686" (uname -m) mean "i686 + SSSE3 support" which is not the same for desktop linux (or other distros) | 09:41 |
| RST38h | The problem with SSSE3 is that it is fairly new and a lot of the current Intel hardware out there does not have it | 09:41 |
| odin_ | the difference is that it will enable the use of additional instructions by GCC for General Purpose Code Generation, but those binaries will try to run on classic i686 desktop machines without any sign of obvious compatibility (and there is one) | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaaahyes | 09:42 |
| RST38h | In the meanwhile, I have been wondering if anyone with a bit of time and MaemoSDK handy could look at the icon rotation in the hildon-desktop? | 09:42 |
| RST38h | I can even TELL that guy what exactly has to be done | 09:43 |
| odin_ | re the rolling a complete MeeGo 1.1 for i386/i686/n8x0, I am looking for someone with storage and bandwidth to host it (since I can't do that as well) | 09:43 |
| odin_ | obviously Intel in the meego-dev list talked of who and how is going to support it, but thats a moot point, it shows they are not thinking correctly about how things work, they are thinking like a corporation releasing a product (and I don't blame them for that) | 09:45 |
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| odin_ | anyhow this is #maemo | 09:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nayhow that's what I felt all the time when diving into meego - or trying to do that | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | got BW but no storage (repost, freenode server sucks) | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3 cheers to mgedmin for povbot | 09:56 |
| odin_ | sure, thats something that can be worked out even at the last minute over the coming months, but I do see the problem addressed by "Who has control of the SDK" and do you use Intel's SDK but only run on SSSE3 or another SDK that allows you app to run everything and its the developers who are complaining users don't care | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i think they're actually making sense about 'who will support it and who will do it' as there's genuine resources and money involved. even ubuntu doesn't move forward without people getting donations or people spearheading/taking a shovel | 09:58 |
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| Stskeeps | it always bends down to that someone has to take a feature, be responsible to maintain it, and do the patch/work/whatever | 09:59 |
| odin_ | this should trigger Intel to be responsible in the matter and deal with the problem in a mutually acceptable way, i.e. customers who buy MeeGo software but run it on i386 disto and it fails means bad press. I support the notion of optimization but not the method/path chosen to do it | 09:59 |
| Stskeeps | apps sdk is a funny matter, agreed | 09:59 |
| Stskeeps | and i think it's entirely fair to say 'we're not going to stop you, but we don't have the resoruces to do it or we won't spend them on this project' | 09:59 |
| odin_ | I think its fair too | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | however, default optflags in sdk is .. interesting | 10:00 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: You mean, it is a question of who will recompile Meego with a different compilation switch? :) | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: and devote the build resources to it | 10:01 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: And that apparently requires a shitload of resources? | 10:01 |
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| odin_ | I dont think so, to just roll the final release | 10:01 |
| odin_ | also not every package needs to make it, but all those on any demo/download, all SDK/tools, etc.. so the experience is there for those users who are not yet ready to jump in with new hardware, I also realise that everyone in 5 years will have SSSE3 hardware but that is not the point | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it does take a while | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: if you have to track every weekly/daily | 10:05 |
| RST38h | but if you do not? | 10:05 |
| odin_ | no just releases (that make it out of :Unstable) | 10:05 |
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| slonopotamus | okaaay. my second n900 usb connector starts to die | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | odin_: aiui meego will fail on systems without SSSE3, with SIGILL? | 10:07 |
| slonopotamus | both survived ~5 months | 10:08 |
| odin_ | any application will fail terminally when the program executes an unknown instruction, ali in #meego was reporting on exactly which i686 MeeGo binaries use SSSE3 and the results indicate only glibc uses it | 10:10 |
| RST38h | Well, there is a way around it | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: that's odd. It seems to be somewhat dependant on usage patern rather than particularly faulty build. Let alone the USB receptacle and plug design is flawed fundamentally | 10:11 |
| odin_ | but the talk from Intel employees (on meego-dev) of massive performance boosts, but.. I think they confused -mtune (sets the instruction scheduling order to match CPU pipelines and branch prediction etc...) with -march (sets the Instruction Set Architecture), no one is saying don't -mtune the complaint is about -march | 10:11 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: it didn't fall of yet, but gets/loses contact | 10:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem with USB is it's way too simple to apply bending force to the recepacle via the long plug lever | 10:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | e.g. when device drops, or when placed on flexible base like bed or sofa, and then even minimally pushing down the device | 10:14 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: i didn't find any anti-fall devices in n900 box :/ | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | even when plug/unplug in a "careless" manner | 10:15 |
| slonopotamus | i do not plug/unplug it any way different i plug/unplug other things | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: well, that's the problem maybe | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure it's Nokia's problem | 10:17 |
| slonopotamus | btw, n8x0 had other problem. if it fell with charger plugged, with very high chance it broke thin thingie that is plugged into charge hole on tablet. luckily, new chargers for n8x0 are just $3 here | 10:18 |
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| slonopotamus | maybe $5 | 10:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | but nevertheless, it's an explanation why devices tend to fail in numbers with one user, and don't with another user | 10:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: (N810) *nod* | 10:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: my charger plug is like 45° :-D | 10:19 |
| slonopotamus | haha :) one of mine too | 10:19 |
| slonopotamus | and 2 broken | 10:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | one of my N900 chargers is broken. Just stopped working... *shrug* | 10:20 |
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| RST38h | happens | 10:21 |
| * slonopotamus considers taking n900 to repair service, replacing usb connector again and selling it away | 10:21 | |
| RST38h | slono: Getting an android? | 10:21 |
| * RST38h hides | 10:21 | |
| slonopotamus | RST38h: maybe :P how long n900 warranty is? i need to catch the moment when _next_ usb breakage will happen after it ends :) | 10:22 |
| nid0 | in eu, its 2 years | 10:22 |
| RST38h | slono: 1 year afaik | 10:23 |
| RST38h | slono: Well once it ends, you go to Savelka or something and ask them to not just resolder it, but cover the whole freaking thing with epoxy | 10:23 |
| jacekowski | how do i check what's wrong with sip on my phone? | 10:26 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h: hmm... one year will come soon (november) | 10:26 |
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| kerio | is the fix of the usb connector something nokia care does right there? | 10:43 |
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| kerio | or is it substitution-worthy at least? | 10:43 |
| nid0 | afaik neither, its generally a send it away and solder on a new one | 10:44 |
| kerio | :( | 10:44 |
| kerio | how much do they take? | 10:44 |
| kerio | time-wise, i mean | 10:44 |
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| slonopotamus | kerio: when my first one broke, they just replaced whole motherboard | 10:58 |
| psycho_oreos | which still has the connectors soldered on? | 10:59 |
| ieatlint | i'm sure | 11:01 |
| ieatlint | something that could be repaired by hand probably | 11:02 |
| ieatlint | breaks your warranty, but still i guess good once warranties run up | 11:02 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:04 |
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| marmoute | irc | 11:09 |
| marmoute | sorry wrong window | 11:09 |
| ieatlint | i'm sorry too | 11:10 |
| kerio | do they ever substitute right there? | 11:11 |
| kerio | i really can't live without my n900 anymore :( | 11:11 |
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| slonopotamus | psycho_oreos: sure. second one is about to break too | 11:23 |
| psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, *shakes head* makes you wonder why wouldn't they bother to secure it firmly knowing that this device will be subjected to various wear-and-tear throughout the life of the device by its owners | 11:24 |
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| TermanaN900 | Some people must be using their n900s too hard | 11:35 |
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| TermanaN900 | Im pretty rough with mine and its not breaking. Although slider and lock slider seems less stiff | 11:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | new main PCB have USB rcptcl glued on I heard | 11:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they're pretty much out of luck until they manage to use spring contact USB, like AV receptacle, which is mounted to case instead of PCB | 11:41 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: "new"? | 11:45 |
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| jacekowski | well breaking dock connectors were common with pda's not so long ago | 11:47 |
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| slonopotamus | jacekowski: really? i have palm V since ~2001 and it still perfectly works | 11:52 |
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| slonopotamus | s/V/m500/ | 11:52 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: jacekowski: really? i have palm m500 since ~2001 and it still perfectly works | 11:52 |
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| ieatlint | and what kind of connector does it have? | 11:55 |
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| ieatlint | nokia basically fucked up.. although if it's just popping off the connector and not hurting the traces, it *should* be a simple fix anyone with basic soldering skills could do | 11:56 |
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| slonopotamus | ieatlint: it has a cradle | 11:57 |
| slonopotamus | ieatlint: http://the-gadgeteer.com/assets/m500-8.jpg | 11:58 |
| ieatlint | i think there is something a tad funny that microusb was made because miniusb wasn't durable enough, and here it's proving unreliable | 11:59 |
| slonopotamus | ieatlint: it's just put on a cradle and touches pins | 11:59 |
| ieatlint | slonopotamus: so not entirely like the old nokia connector... proprietary | 11:59 |
| ieatlint | although offering more features | 11:59 |
| slonopotamus | ieatlint: those days everyone made own connectors | 11:59 |
| slonopotamus | miniusb is too narrow. microusb is too thin :) | 12:00 |
| ieatlint | indeed, and that predated miniusb even :P | 12:00 |
| nid0 | and, miniusb *isnt* durable enough. microusb being more durable has nothing to do with the whole connector falling off because the way it's secured to the device is bad | 12:00 |
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| ieatlint | nid0: indeed | 12:00 |
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| ieatlint | i'm just saying that it's funny that the connector is failing (because of the way it was attached) | 12:01 |
| nid0 | bring back the days of nice straightforward jack charging ports with no surround to rip off tbh :( | 12:01 |
| ieatlint | i disagree... the flaw is just how the connector is attached, microusb is awesome in general | 12:02 |
| slonopotamus | ieatlint: piece of plastic and metal can't be "awesome" :) | 12:02 |
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| ieatlint | i can buy generic cables or borrow one from a friend with an entirely different phone | 12:02 |
| ieatlint | sure it can, you just haven't seen enough sex toys | 12:03 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 12:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | well, on people.openmoko.orh/joerg/n900 I found on close inspection that the 4 support posts holding the microUSB were not exactly what I'd call decent solder joints | 12:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | reflow problem I guess | 12:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or maybe that component isn't reflowable and needs manual soldering, that often fails due to the underpaid untrained workers in china fabs | 12:09 |
| kerio | will i get an instant replace with a broken red led, a broken usb port, two lighter spots on the screen, a broken internal battery, a mildly scratched screen and a kinda ruined chassis? | 12:13 |
| TermanaN900 | kerio, wtf have you been doing to it!? | 12:15 |
| flashn | wear and tear | 12:15 |
| kerio | who, me? | 12:16 |
| kerio | i did nothing! it was pre-broken | 12:16 |
| kerio | totally nokia's fault | 12:16 |
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| TermanaN900 | kerio, and im the friggin pope! | 12:17 |
| kerio | oh hi Your Holiness | 12:17 |
| TermanaN900 | No, really, i am. Praise be to me | 12:17 |
| kerio | sup | 12:17 |
| TermanaN900 | :P | 12:17 |
| Adeon | I'm an ancient chinese emperor | 12:18 |
| kerio | shut up, you're Xom | 12:18 |
| kerio | don't lie | 12:18 |
| kerio | ._. | 12:21 |
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| kerio | TermanaN900: internal battery, screen and usb connector are actually not my fault | 12:21 |
| kerio | the red led was mia when i bought it | 12:21 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: you're coming to ireland? P | 12:22 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well, I hope :D | 12:26 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: even if nokia wouldn't be kind enough - I have a place to stay there :P | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | the hotel rates are sure peppery | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | if called discounted.. | 12:27 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: yeah | 12:27 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: 130 euros, like, omfg | 12:28 |
| wazd | :D | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | i thought the scottish were the cheapos | 12:28 |
| wazd | not too far from Moscow rates :) | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | but if you do show up, i think i owe you some drinks or whatever :P | 12:28 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: hehe, I think I owe you :P | 12:29 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: let's owe each other some beers :D | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | excellent, we both get drunk | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 12:29 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: isn't it the main point of the conference? :D | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | that and networking | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:30 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: aaah, sure, networking :D | 12:32 |
| TermanaN900 | networking a.k.a exchanging beers | 12:32 |
| wazd | TermanaN900: +1 :D | 12:32 |
| kerio | BTP - Beer Transfer Protocol | 12:33 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: anyway, we'll try to make something cool with OMWeather for MeeGo :) | 12:33 |
| wazd | kerio: Beer Exchange Server :P | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i sometimes wish i had a Mer theme for MeeGo, that wasn't tied to the meego trademark | 12:33 |
| kerio | wazd: beerd | 12:33 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I'll try to make something asap :) Currently too much everything for 2 hands :) | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hehe | 12:34 |
| * Jaffa 's looking forward to the conference now, since he won't be able to make Nokia World (Monday/Tuesday is a prospect in-depth architecture overview; and Wednesday has our Swedish client coming over for the day) | 12:34 | |
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| TermanaN900 | I wonder weather i could get sponsored for a propsal to talk about the implementation of BTP with a BES backend on MeeGo | 12:34 |
| TermanaN900 | :P | 12:34 |
| kerio | wazd: and lightbeerd that only serves non-alcoholic beer | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: you should propose a talk on artwork | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:35 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: I'm not sure if I'll be able to perform that much without alco-stimulation :) I'm really shy person IRL :D | 12:36 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: pft, we know you're the next steve jobs | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | and being drunk in ireland while presenting is normal | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 12:37 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: ah, then it's ok :D | 12:37 |
| TermanaN900 | Stskeeps, wazd wears the same clothes everytime he presents? | 12:37 |
| TermanaN900 | :P | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | TermanaN900: ah, good point | 12:37 |
| wazd | TermanaN900: last time I was presenting something, I actually was wearing turtleneck, jeans and glasses :D | 12:38 |
| TermanaN900 | :D | 12:38 |
| wazd | TermanaN900: I don't know how that happened :D | 12:39 |
| pupnik | i hope to use N9 oled screen as a white on black terminal much of the time, thus consuming little energy | 12:42 |
| pigeon | is it possible to compiletely disable auto software update check? | 12:42 |
| pupnik | surely | 12:42 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: maybe your idea bout talk is not that bad actually :) | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i mean, you do have a lot of merit | 12:44 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: well, merit means nothing when you have nothing to say :D | 12:45 |
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| Stskeeps | you have art | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:45 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: :) | 12:45 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: how long should it be? | 12:45 |
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| Stskeeps | Preferred session duration (default is 30 minutes, but we'll entertain other requests where possible) | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | or lightning talk | 12:46 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well, lightning is about 5 minutes, that's not enough :( And 30 minutes is kinds too much :D | 12:47 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: kinda* | 12:47 |
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| Stskeeps | could always do a double talk | 12:49 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: цуддб Ш рфму 1 ьщку вфн ещ здфт Ш пгуыы Ж) | 12:50 |
| wazd | fuck | 12:50 |
| wazd | Well, I have one more day to plan I guess :) | 12:50 |
| wazd | that was main thesis for my talk btw :D | 12:50 |
| TermanaN900 | im not sure цуддб Ш рфму 1 ьщку вфн ещ здфт Ш пгуыы Ж) fuck - is a valid proposal | 12:51 |
| TermanaN900 | :P | 12:51 |
| wazd | TermanaN900: awww :( | 12:51 |
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| pigeon | changing /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval doesn't work btw. | 12:55 |
| kerio | pigeon: wfm | 12:56 |
| pigeon | it may have worked for the check interval, but everytime i reboot, it does the check again. | 12:57 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! Is there a way to dump Conversation logs? | 12:58 |
| ebzzry | Nvm. I found it. | 13:01 |
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| BCMM | is there any way to change the layout of the onscreen dialling pad in the phone app? i use a calculator a lot and can touchtype on a computer numpad, so the phone/ATM-style number layout is a little annoying for me | 14:04 |
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| pupnik | neat idea BCMM | 14:15 |
| delirus | Does the package manager in maemo keep data about repositories in MyDocs? | 14:15 |
| pupnik | http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/improving_the_maemo_5_cell_phone_experience/ | 14:15 |
| delirus | because I backed up before formatting MyDocs.... but apparently scp didn't back up the dot-folders :\ | 14:16 |
| delirus | and now I have no repos, and can't add repos | 14:16 |
| Jaffa | delirus: No, HAM meta data is in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and another XML file somewhere (possibly under /home/user/.osso/application-manager IRC) | 14:17 |
| jacekowski | heh | 14:18 |
| jacekowski | http://www.knownokia.ca/2010/08/enhancingunlocking-your-n900-fm.html | 14:18 |
| Jaffa | s/IRC/IIRC/ | 14:18 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: delirus: No, HAM meta data is in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and another XML file somewhere (possibly under /home/user/.osso/application-manager IIRC) | 14:18 |
| jacekowski | Well, lucky for us there’s nothing to stop a good brain coupled with the power of IDA Pro from doing what one may please. | 14:18 |
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| jacekowski | why somebody assumes that i was using ida pro for that? | 14:18 |
| delirus | after a re-partition, why would the package manager suddenly malfunction like this? I go to the dialog to add a repository, and the repository simply doesn't show up. | 14:19 |
| delirus | Everything else is working 100% | 14:19 |
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| delirus | this might help: synaptic says "unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/) is anothoer process using it?" | 14:22 |
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| delirus | (the graphical package manager is closed btw) | 14:23 |
| RST38h | Anyone knows how I can check download statistics for each repository? | 14:23 |
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| delirus | nm... | 14:28 |
| delirus | 'app manager' is still broken, but I got synaptic working | 14:28 |
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| jacekowski | you can have only one package manager running | 14:35 |
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| delirus | I know.... | 14:36 |
| delirus | even when only one was running, neither would work | 14:37 |
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| delirus | on a fresh reboot, app manager's repos are blank | 14:39 |
| delirus | but synaptic seems healthy if I delete the lock file | 14:39 |
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| skyscraper | hi | 14:48 |
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| skyscraper | me again | 14:48 |
| skyscraper | does anyone know why setxkbmap doesnt work in maemo ? -.- | 14:49 |
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| RST38h | Hehe, now those "community affairs" are starting to look really rotten | 14:50 |
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| pupnik | http://gizmodo.com/5583079/n8-gallery//gallery/1 | 14:56 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, what do you mean | 14:56 |
| RST38h | lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=793879#post793879 | 14:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60739 | 14:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: + another thread by our friend Flandry on stricter rules for t.m.o | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: err - how can people be commenting about themegapixels of a 640*480 or so pic | 14:58 |
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| pupnik | eheh | 15:00 |
| pupnik | http://admin.conversations.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/04062010253.jpg SpeedEvil but this is pretty nice | 15:01 |
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| toresbe | Hello folks :) | 15:05 |
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| toresbe | I really love the way the N900 does contacts; the ability to integrate IM accounts and telephone accounts is pure genius. | 15:06 |
| toresbe | However, the contacts list is really slow. Really, really slow. | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: unfortunately overcompressed | 15:07 |
| toresbe | I'm sure it'd be faster if I merged some of my contacts, I suspect I have a high degree of duplication. However, merging is also painfully glacial. | 15:07 |
| lcuk | pupnik, the n8 is a really nice device I will give you that! | 15:07 |
| toresbe | Is there a way to optimize either of the two? | 15:07 |
| lcuk | how is it for all the linux games you have | 15:07 |
| lcuk | can you do the same sort of conversions and ports as you spent so long doing? | 15:08 |
| psycho_oreos | lol n8.. another symbian junk | 15:08 |
| toresbe | For example, a desktop-based application to deal with my contacts list would probably save me a bit of time. | 15:08 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, its actually looking really really nice | 15:08 |
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| lcuk | but the symbian phone I am personally REALLY interested in is the X3-2 | 15:09 |
| lcuk | touch and talk is uber cool | 15:09 |
| toresbe | or some kind of clever "hey, this contact sure looks like that other contact, should I merge them?" app | 15:09 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But...mmm...why? | 15:09 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, looking nice != the functionality that linux can offer | 15:09 |
| lcuk | and a novel nice simple usable upgrade to a normal phone | 15:09 |
| lcuk | RST38h, because my son has an X3 and he drooled when he saw it | 15:09 |
| RST38h | ahh | 15:09 |
| psycho_oreos | my younger brother has x6 16gb, me jealous? not one bit | 15:10 |
| lcuk | and 15year olds liking the look of something is win in my book | 15:10 |
| toresbe | another thing that frustrates me is receiving a telephone call | 15:11 |
| toresbe | the device will be unresponsive for a significant amount of time | 15:11 |
| toresbe | especially if I turn it around (like when I take it out of my pocket) it will spend several agonizing seconds rendering the rotate back and forth | 15:12 |
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| toresbe | sometimes it seems to randomly shift the accept/decline buttons as a part of this leading to my accidentally declining phone calls | 15:12 |
| toresbe | I'm guessing this ties into the contacts slowness? | 15:13 |
| lcuk | no toresbe different issue | 15:13 |
| toresbe | I love my N900 but it drives me up the farging wall sometimes. | 15:14 |
| lcuk | the phone call shifting is fixed afaik | 15:14 |
| toresbe | Goodie. Can I update to something that isn't so maddening yet? | 15:14 |
| lcuk | ok RST38h posted my own thoughts in those ranting threads | 15:15 |
| toresbe | Oh, and the inability to play the first few seconds of an MP3 also sucks. When going from gPodder and into Media Player the thing will still be swamped enough that it'll fail to play the MP3. | 15:15 |
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| toresbe | I'll just hear stuttering the first 10-15 seconds. | 15:15 |
| toresbe | Even the battery warning stutters. | 15:16 |
| psycho_oreos | probably some process is hogging up cpu process | 15:16 |
| toresbe | Wow, that turned into a rant pretty fast. | 15:16 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, linux can look good by the way | 15:16 |
| toresbe | Sorry. | 15:16 |
| * lcuk doesn't mind rants | 15:17 | |
| lcuk | i prefer action ontop of them | 15:17 |
| lcuk | so follow up and talk with thp about gpodder and whether hes noticed things | 15:17 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, I didn't mean linux has to look good to beat symbian, I would have ditched my n900 for n8 had my n95 done the things I want it to do and not to give me crap | 15:17 |
| toresbe | thp: Thanks for writing gPodder. It's excellent. | 15:18 |
| lcuk | since he wrote it and uses it he might have some great ideas and insight into the actual issue that can be passed onto devs to help cure | 15:18 |
| toresbe | I just get the feeling that someone should be doing some serious profiling of the whole environment. | 15:18 |
| lcuk | serious profiling requires serious skill to see the results and be able to pick out and act on them | 15:18 |
| toresbe | yup. | 15:18 |
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| toresbe | I mean, iPhone runs on the same architecture. And that's really snappy. When I'm fiddling with maemo I kind of get that feeling that I'm on a 486 running Windows 95. | 15:19 |
| lcuk | and I know some extremely decent developers have been looking at many areas | 15:19 |
| lcuk | toresbe, thats because the n900 is a full complete x11 stack and does things differently | 15:19 |
| psycho_oreos | iphone runs on a different kernel and lacks functionality where n900 has with a proper full blown linux | 15:19 |
| toresbe | but it's still doing the same things, in roughly the same environment. | 15:20 |
| lcuk | iphone ui is a completely different much shorter subsystem with none of the complexity | 15:20 |
| lcuk | toresbe, the n900 can do those things too | 15:20 |
| toresbe | iOS _is_ a full Unix kernel. OK, it takes some shortcuts in the UI stack perhaps, i don't know. Still shouldn't affect performance inordinately. | 15:21 |
| lcuk | kernel != rendering layer | 15:21 |
| toresbe | sure, but the sluggishness that I am experiencing isn't due to graphics. | 15:22 |
| lcuk | graphics pipeline has a lot to do with it | 15:22 |
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| lcuk | and the toolkit etc | 15:22 |
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| lcuk | if you have to pass the data for a single line on a list through many layers | 15:22 |
| psycho_oreos | it is probably partially due to the fancy look and feel with all those compiz like affects | 15:22 |
| lcuk | its not going to be as fluid as if it just draws it onto the surface directly | 15:23 |
| toresbe | I just did a test, and measured 7 seconds from opening the camera lid of an idle phone to the camera appearing. | 15:23 |
| lcuk | 1 second here | 15:23 |
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| lcuk | after picking up my phone after seeing your comment | 15:23 |
| toresbe | Maybe I should reflash, then... | 15:23 |
| lcuk | something is eating lots of cpu on your device | 15:23 |
| lcuk | potentially | 15:23 |
| toresbe | nah, the CPU is idle. | 15:23 |
| lcuk | back up first | 15:23 |
| psycho_oreos | which firmware version are you running? | 15:24 |
| lcuk | me? | 15:24 |
| toresbe | RAM is another story... | 15:24 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah both :) it took me 3 seconds | 15:24 |
| lcuk | I have pr1.2 on one device | 15:24 |
| lcuk | and not pr1.2 on the other | 15:24 |
| toresbe | 232784K used, 12156K free | 15:24 |
| nid0 | im at about 2-3 seconds from opening lens cover to camera image showing | 15:25 |
| psycho_oreos | the one on pr1.2 has the one second delay from opening lens cover to camera? | 15:25 |
| lcuk | try closing and reopening | 15:25 |
| lcuk | is it faster? | 15:25 |
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| toresbe | lcuk: much, around two seconds | 15:25 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, they both do on mine | 15:25 |
| nid0 | yeah second time goes much quicker, always has | 15:25 |
| psycho_oreos | one second less, still two seconds | 15:25 |
| psycho_oreos | toresbe, how long has your n900 been on for? | 15:26 |
| nid0 | prolly about a second when repeating it for me | 15:26 |
| toresbe | psycho_oreos: I reset it occasionally. | 15:26 |
| toresbe | current uptime is 2 days | 15:26 |
| lcuk | ok i just videod it | 15:27 |
| lcuk | hold on will upload | 15:27 |
| psycho_oreos | toresbe, by that time I would have expected some minor lags to occur, when it runs for 4 days uptime, even when trying to stop the alarm will take about 5 seconds.. that's when I reboot the device | 15:27 |
| nid0 | .... | 15:27 |
| nid0 | what are you doing to your device that kills it in 4 days? | 15:27 |
| Khertan | hum ... | 15:28 |
| toresbe | sigh | 15:28 |
| Khertan | you have some bad things installed on it | 15:28 |
| psycho_oreos | alarms and widgets? :) | 15:28 |
| toresbe | i'm seriously considering changing over to android by now | 15:28 |
| Khertan | it s took less than 1s on my n900 to open camera soft | 15:28 |
| toresbe | this is just maddening | 15:28 |
| Khertan | toresbe, lol good luck | 15:28 |
| toresbe | (not on the n900, but on a different phone) | 15:28 |
| toresbe | I'll really miss the KB though. | 15:28 |
| psycho_oreos | toresbe, enjoy the restricted freedom, similarly to having iphone | 15:28 |
| Khertan | good luck with android | 15:29 |
| toresbe | Physically the N900 is a fantastic phone. | 15:29 |
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| toresbe | psycho_oreos: In what regard? | 15:29 |
| Khertan | toresbe, software is amazing too ! | 15:29 |
| toresbe | Khertan: No, it's shit, that's the problem | 15:29 |
| Khertan | toresbe, LOL | 15:29 |
| Khertan | it s shit ... of course ... yeah | 15:29 |
| Khertan | end of discussion | 15:29 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, toresbe : http://liqbase.net/20100821_004.mp4 | 15:29 |
| psycho_oreos | toresbe, no dual/multi booting, no root access without jailbreaking (like iphone) lack of raw level support on hardware.. most of the stuff runs ontop of java | 15:30 |
| Khertan | go to bought an android phone and see you later in one month | 15:30 |
| Khertan | haha | 15:30 |
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| nid0 | slloooowwww host lcuk or just me? | 15:30 |
| toresbe | psycho_oreos: well, I don't want two bad OSes, I want one good one. The restrictions are a bummer but I am actually willing to give a little of that freedom away in order to have a working telephone... | 15:31 |
| lcuk | nid0, never noticed it before | 15:31 |
| psycho_oreos | I think there's more than one users getting the file :) I'm getting around 60K | 15:31 |
| lcuk | its godaddy stuff | 15:31 |
| Khertan | psycho_oreos, and worse ... no python on iphone :) not really well supported on android :) | 15:31 |
| lcuk | must just be you | 15:31 |
| nid0 | took my machine like 40 seconds to buffer the video :( | 15:31 |
| * lcuk just downloaded it from my side quickly | 15:31 | |
| lcuk | different machine | 15:31 |
| lcuk | you guys have serious IT issues | 15:32 |
| nid0 | nah, im happy just blaming godaddy :) | 15:32 |
| Khertan | huum ... godaddy isn't really a good host depending where you live ... :) | 15:32 |
| psycho_oreos | toresbe, its a small sacrifice but *shrugs* do whatever you must, n900 wasn't meant to be a perfect phone, afterall its the very first NIT to feature phone capability and the software aspects are kinda half done | 15:32 |
| lcuk | I tried to show clearly how I am opening the slider | 15:32 |
| lcuk | so my finger starts in view | 15:33 |
| lcuk | and you can see, its nowhere near 7 seconds | 15:33 |
| psycho_oreos | Khertan, heh I wouldn't want to ever consider iphone, considering how the latest pdf exploit patch is only fixed in iOS4 but would still cause grief for iphone 3g owners | 15:33 |
| lcuk | *I* would be shouting if it was | 15:33 |
| Khertan | lcuk, same as you less than one seconds with no apps running :) | 15:33 |
| lcuk | the n810 used to have a ~10second wait for front camer | 15:33 |
| toresbe | psycho_oreos: I don't require a perfect phone, I'd just like an acceptable one; currently my N900 isn't that way... | 15:33 |
| Khertan | lcuk, take more than 1 min with 40 search running with khweeteur ... :) | 15:34 |
| lcuk | toresbe, as you say, try a clear out and reflash | 15:34 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, yeah that's a very fast response, I guess I'll need to disable a few things.. lol I've been told to not leave r&d mode on | 15:34 |
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| nid0 | has the obvious suggestion of reflashing and bloating it down a bit less after doing so been mentioned yet? | 15:34 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, why are you running r&d mode out of interest? | 15:34 |
| lcuk | nid0, yes - toresbe said it himself | 15:34 |
| lcuk | I am just showing the video to clarify | 15:35 |
| toresbe | lcuk: I believe you :) | 15:35 |
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| psycho_oreos | toresbe, well mine is reasonably acceptable, sure it lacks features and what not but at least in hardware-wise and openness its by far lot better than its competitors, especially when it comes to having the advantage of a full blown linux running on it | 15:35 |
| lcuk | I used to overwhelm my windows machine | 15:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | i wonder what purging hildon-desktop and rebooting would do | 15:35 |
| lcuk | I used to have to shut down EVERYTHING just to play mp3s | 15:35 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, for things you may laugh at :) I like the verbose bootup message and the keyboard led flashing | 15:35 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, might do a lot | 15:35 |
| toresbe | nid0: it really shouldn't be bloated as it is though, I don't use apps all that much... | 15:35 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, I don't laugh, it was a serious question | 15:36 |
| lcuk | and I agree :) | 15:36 |
| toresbe | R&D mode, what does that do? | 15:36 |
| lcuk | the keyboard lights are something MohammadAG51 likes too, but for different reasons | 15:36 |
| lcuk | nothing | 15:36 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, well yeah those were the things I liked to have enabled on normal mode (non r&d), I was told those were possible but I haven't looked into it | 15:36 |
| lcuk | it doesnt exist | 15:36 |
| lcuk | if you don't know, dont do it | 15:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol lcuk | 15:37 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, so you have the visible bootlogging on startup? | 15:37 |
| psycho_oreos | r&d are only for noble NIT fans ;) | 15:37 |
| lcuk | cos thats not an r&d thing is it? | 15:37 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, no it shouldnt be for fans at all | 15:37 |
| toresbe | lcuk: I googled it and I will infact enable it. :) | 15:37 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, yeah the green words appearing all over Nokia screen with the little tool thing in the middle | 15:37 |
| lcuk | it should be for people who have skills to fix problems themselves and not whinge in public channels | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | you need a framebuffer kernel to see kernel messages | 15:38 |
| lcuk | :P | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | psycho_oreos, you can remove the green text by patching /etc/preinit | 15:38 |
| toresbe | lcuk: Heh. Fair enough. But I did _start_ off being reasonable. ;) | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | err | 15:38 |
| lcuk | of course toresbe | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | /sbin/preinit | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | installing multiboot does that | 15:38 |
| lcuk | and I really hope we get the points you did mention cured | 15:38 |
| toresbe | it just really frustrates me because I _want_ to love my phone. | 15:39 |
| lcuk | because you are not the only one mentioning them | 15:39 |
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| * lcuk nods | 15:39 | |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG51, hmm interesting, I'm gonna have a look at how to enable framebuffer (I'm sure titan's power kernel has fb but I could be wrong) and enable all the fancy features I want from r&d so that I can disable r&d | 15:39 |
| MohammadAG51 | it doesn't | 15:39 |
| psycho_oreos | bum :/ | 15:39 |
| MohammadAG51 | well | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | do you want a power40 framebuffer kernel? | 15:40 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't know what a power40 is :/ | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol latest version | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | of kernel-power | 15:40 |
| psycho_oreos | titan's power kernel? o.O that should be in the repos shouldn't it? :) | 15:41 |
| psycho_oreos | under extras-testing | 15:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | not the framebuffer one | 15:41 |
| lcuk | toresbe, have a look at what additional bloat you can remove | 15:41 |
| lcuk | and see if you can clean up your system in coming days without reflashing | 15:41 |
| psycho_oreos | hmm damn so it must be your own version heh :) | 15:41 |
| lcuk | just like anything else, keeping it full to the brim with everything can overload it | 15:41 |
| toresbe | brb | 15:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | actually, i need it and i cba to do it, but if someone else would use i'll get off my arse and do it | 15:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | I'm personally am a bit conservative on testing lol, had I got enough money to acquire another n900 I'd love to trial it out | 15:43 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lol flashing a kernel doesn't do anything bad | 15:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | well.. assuming the kernel works | 15:45 |
| lcuk | it doesn't do anything good either | 15:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.104 port 22: Connection refused | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | grrr | 15:46 |
| BCMM | psycho_oreos: most of the talk of "bricking" n900s refers to the sort of not-really-bricking that you can fix by reflashing from a PC | 15:46 |
| psycho_oreos | that is exactly what I worry :) my n900 is on contract and I'm treating it as a main phone, if it gets constantly bricked, etc I would have missed lots of phone calls and probably end up in strife :) | 15:46 |
| nid0 | "constantly bricked" = huge misnomer | 15:46 |
| nid0 | you can by definition only brick a phone once | 15:46 |
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| mavhk | there's bricking and there's bricking | 15:47 |
| psycho_oreos | BCMM, well yeah you can sort of unbrick it if you knew how but otherwise you need to re-setup various things again according to what to the ways and things you want.. yes I'm against the hacking of my own n900 for the time being I'm afraid.. I just don't want to spend too many countless hours trying to set everything right | 15:48 |
| psycho_oreos | wasn't there two ways of unbricking? one using PC and if its really bad, you go through the serial terminal or something? | 15:48 |
| mavhk | isn't that what the backup's for? | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | Well | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | if you erase the first and second bootloader | 15:49 |
| psycho_oreos | well the backups are far and large in between, it doesn't save all the debs you have installed for example | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | theoritically, you should be able to cold flash | 15:49 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, it installs the list of them | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | you'll need to specify the USB bus manually though | 15:49 |
| lcuk | and the list of repositories | 15:49 |
| nid0 | for anything that was installed via repos at least | 15:50 |
| lcuk | and then bulk reinstalls them | 15:50 |
| nid0 | any debs installed manually you'd need to save and re-do manually though | 15:50 |
| nid0 | but there shouldnt exactly be a huge list of them | 15:50 |
| lcuk | so if you installed from certified repositories - ie maemo.org, you can reinstall | 15:50 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, o.O didn't knew about bulk reinstalling, I thought those would also take up lots of downloads as well | 15:50 |
| nid0 | they do, they all get redownloaded | 15:50 |
| nid0 | the system just does them all at once concurrently | 15:51 |
| psycho_oreos | and then there's stuff from ovi for example | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | downloads app, installs it, downloads next one and installs it etc | 15:51 |
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| MohammadAG51 | though tbh, I would say downloading all then installing would be better | 15:51 |
| nid0 | freeware from ovi will get reinstalled automatically afaik | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | which is why i use apt-get | 15:51 |
| nid0 | its just paid stuff you need to manually redownload from "my stuff" | 15:51 |
| psycho_oreos | heh I haven't looked into that, I thought it would only install the list and the repos but wouldn't go through and get all the apps you previously had.. even then it still needs to grab datas from certified repos and what not.. in my case I haven't gone through all the certified repos | 15:52 |
| nid0 | itll redownload apps installed from repos regardless of the repo it's in | 15:52 |
| nid0 | assuming the repo is enabled on the device at the time you generate the backup | 15:53 |
| psycho_oreos | hmm | 15:53 |
| psycho_oreos | and the custom user hacks? like various edited/personalised conf files? :D | 15:54 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, :) | 15:54 |
| nid0 | some will get retained, some wont | 15:54 |
| lcuk | nope, hence my dislike for users doing mystical runes and incantations in the command line | 15:54 |
| lcuk | once a dev finds a reliable happy hack | 15:54 |
| lcuk | it should be packaged and pushed | 15:54 |
| lcuk | so that its reproducable | 15:55 |
| nid0 | the backup will take backups of various config files, if your manual changes happen to be in those files youll get them backed up, if not you wont | 15:55 |
| psycho_oreos | doing mystical runes and incantations? lol | 15:55 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, the command line is something ancient linux gods use | 15:55 |
| lcuk | my mum would never know what to do with it | 15:56 |
| nid0 | manually-written transition effects are not saved for example, but afaik custom led patterns are | 15:56 |
| psycho_oreos | nid0, hmm yeah looks like I'll still need to back them up by hand | 15:56 |
| lcuk | or package them for reproduction :P | 15:56 |
| * SpeedEvil looks at his package for reproduction, then puts on underpants. | 15:56 | |
| lcuk | :D | 15:56 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, lol wth, I spend a fair amount of time in linux cli :D I even have a shortcut on my `home' just to have direct access | 15:56 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, sure you do | 15:56 |
| lcuk | but don't you curse after you reinstall? | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: packaging is annoying for some. | 15:57 |
| lcuk | its annoying for all | 15:57 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, *shrugs* I've edited the conky.conf file, edited the mmc-mount as well | 15:57 |
| * lcuk was doing some packaging this last week | 15:57 | |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: For example - I have slackware installed on my laptop. It just works. I don't want to fuck with it. | 15:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: How can I easily package srtuff on this - I haven't found a way. | 15:57 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, yes so after you reinstall you have to dig and find out what you did | 15:57 |
| lcuk | and hope you do it right afterwards | 15:58 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, a package file is fairly simple | 15:58 |
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| psycho_oreos | lcuk, well I was cursing because I wanted to try this other menu thingy instead of catorise which didn't work well and catorise fails to function.. even when I tried restoring the backup it restored the broken functionality of catorise which left me no choice but to manually re-do the whole setup again | 15:58 |
| lcuk | thats the debian folder for maemo-optify-boottime | 15:58 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/trees/master/debian | 15:59 |
| lcuk | its got a few very simple files in it | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure - I haven't found any document that would explain how - say - I drop a 500 byte script in /usr/local/bin - make it depend on zenity - and insrtall it. | 15:59 |
| lcuk | and copies scripts and does postinst stuff etc | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 15:59 |
| lcuk | just take that and modify a bit | 15:59 |
| lcuk | its not rocket science | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Interesting. | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | How do I then get that to the autobuilder? | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | and into testing? | 16:00 |
| lcuk | you request rights from maemo.org | 16:00 |
| lcuk | hold on | 16:00 |
| lcuk | ill dig the page | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | thanks. | 16:00 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 16:00 |
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| MohammadAG51 | well | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | flauta's scratchbox is now dead :( | 16:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | So - request ssh key - prepare above files, and scp them? | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | dput | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | and then autobuilder kicks in when it notrices the dsc? | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | yep | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't have dput | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | install it | 16:03 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, you can use the web interface | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | you don't need to add your ssh keys for that | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - right | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think there is a slackware package for dput | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | this doesn't look impossible - thanks! | 16:04 |
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| lcuk | :) np | 16:05 |
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| Khertan | Code in Python, use pypackager ... use webinterface ;) | 16:21 |
| Khertan | or do your own repository ;) | 16:21 |
| Khertan | it s fast and easy | 16:21 |
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| kerio | android is a phone platform | 16:23 |
| kerio | maemo is a tablet platform | 16:23 |
| kerio | meego is a piece of crap | 16:23 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the openness of meego isn't crap, the use of rpm in it... | 16:24 |
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| kerio | meego wants to do everything | 16:25 |
| kerio | it *will* fail | 16:25 |
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| psycho_oreos | lol the use of rpm is a sign of fail imo :) | 16:27 |
| psycho_oreos | I find it funny that meego uses the rpm which doesn't have all the fancy bits and pieces that deb has | 16:27 |
| Khertan | meego ... in french look like same as megot (cigarrete butt) | 16:28 |
| Khertan | psycho_oreos, in fact rpm as more fancy ... and more annoying things | 16:28 |
| Khertan | psycho_oreos, the main problem of rpm is the lack of control | 16:29 |
| Khertan | but this mainly depends in fact in the tool used to manage this rpm | 16:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | Khertan, to me its rpm lacking maturity, deb has got a proper frontend and some nice tools to work at various levels, rpm doesn't, its frontend came from yellow dog linux and it doesn't have a tool to mirror the repos except to use rsync which in meego's repo doesn't have rsync enabled | 16:30 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:32 |
| Khertan | and ... i ve'nt any motivation to enable the rpm package creation in pypackager | 16:33 |
| thp | toresbe: you're welcome :) | 16:33 |
| Khertan | psycho_oreos, but at least ... there is a bdist_rpm in python setup tool :) | 16:33 |
| lcuk | Khertan, do you still have your repos open from previous work on different OSes? | 16:34 |
| lcuk | ie, in a couple of years if people use your repository will the apps still work? | 16:34 |
| lcuk | this is one of the key things that maemo.org addresses | 16:34 |
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| Khertan | lcuk, my previous repo isn't open anymore as before to close them X-Fade said me that maemo repository will be the answer :)= | 16:36 |
| lcuk | I meant for your work on palm etc | 16:36 |
| Khertan | lcuk, for palm there isn't any repository | 16:36 |
| lcuk | where did those apps go? | 16:37 |
| Khertan | but there are still here | 16:37 |
| lcuk | you are dedicated then! | 16:37 |
| lcuk | all too often the links become stale | 16:37 |
| Khertan | yep i know | 16:37 |
| lcuk | and good solid apps for a platform drain away | 16:37 |
| mikki-kun | uhhhh, meego is using rpm for it's packages? Ö.ö | 16:38 |
| Khertan | and i hate that :) | 16:38 |
| Khertan | for example kmeteo is still here ;) | 16:38 |
| lcuk | heh cool | 16:38 |
| Khertan | on my webpage | 16:38 |
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| Khertan | all chinook and diablo apps are still in maemo repository | 16:38 |
| Khertan | and klauncher ... is still available somewhere ... :) | 16:39 |
| psycho_oreos | mikki-kun, yes | 16:39 |
| lcuk | cool, and I know I am preaching to the choir with you :) | 16:39 |
| lcuk | gah my ear feels funky | 16:39 |
| mikki-kun | ou my... that is.... | 16:39 |
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| nid0 | ...perfectly fine. | 16:40 |
| Khertan | lcuk, you make me think that i forgot to update some old apps on my new web site | 16:40 |
| Khertan | thx | 16:40 |
| psycho_oreos | Khertan && lcuk for chinook, are you guys able to syn source repos off maemo.org repo fine? | 16:40 |
| psycho_oreos | s/syn/sync/ | 16:40 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: Khertan && lcuk for chinook, are you guys able to sync source repos off maemo.org repo fine? | 16:40 |
| Khertan | what did you mean by sync ? | 16:41 |
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| mikki-kun | well, i've heard from a couple of people rpm being the worst of them all | 16:41 |
| nid0 | yeah, by people who are most familiar with debs | 16:41 |
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| nid0 | rpm vs deb is as old as vi vs emacs | 16:42 |
| nid0 | and just as pointless | 16:42 |
| psycho_oreos | Khertan, for example if you were to create a scratchbox env for chinook, when it comes to building stuff from chinook repo under maemo.org do you guys get errors with something like Sources.tgz during compression? | 16:42 |
| Khertan | it s more a war or frontend tools and packaging policies than a real difference in the format | 16:42 |
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| Khertan | psycho_oreos, didn't know ... i didn't use scratchbox :) | 16:43 |
| psycho_oreos | for example, there's no apt-mirror equivalent for rpm repo | 16:43 |
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| psycho_oreos | Khertan, hmm bum :/ can't mirror the Sources.tgz from chinook part for some reason lol | 16:43 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 16:44 |
| psycho_oreos | and rpm's frontend is yum, came from yellow dog linux, runs on python as opposed to deb's frontend being apt-get/aptitude which are made from C | 16:44 |
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| Khertan | and ? c isn't superiors to python ... | 16:45 |
| Khertan | used language isn't a markup of quality | 16:45 |
| lcuk | it is | 16:45 |
| lcuk | :P | 16:45 |
| Khertan | lol lcuk | 16:45 |
| lcuk | most of python is written in c :P | 16:46 |
| psycho_oreos | C is a lower language compared to Python :) | 16:46 |
| nid0 | irrelevant | 16:46 |
| lcuk | or rather, without c, python would be slower than a dead slug | 16:46 |
| johnsq | psycho_oreos: wrong python is an interpreter and c is a compiler | 16:46 |
| lcuk | as it happens, its about the same speed as a slug | 16:46 |
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| johnsq | psycho_oreos: you can't compate dogs with cats | 16:46 |
| Khertan | lcuk, hum ... without python you ll not use pygtkeditor to code in c on your maemo device :) | 16:46 |
| lcuk | python excells in binding | 16:46 |
| johnsq | compare | 16:46 |
| lcuk | Khertan, without c, you wouldnt have pygtkeditor | 16:47 |
| psycho_oreos | johnsq, you're wrong there, both Python and C are programming languages, but Python needs an interpreter, C requires a compiler | 16:47 |
| lcuk | cos that component is c isn't it? | 16:47 |
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| Khertan | in the 2.x.x it s c ... in 3.x.x it s full python :) | 16:47 |
| lcuk | oooh | 16:47 |
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| Khertan | gtksourceview sucks with the maemo gtk style | 16:48 |
| baraujo | python can be compiled too, if you want... cython FTW :) | 16:48 |
| johnsq | psycho_oreos: not correct, there is no strict border, but python is designed to be interpreted and c is designed to be compiled. | 16:48 |
| Khertan | lcuk, but khteditor rely on QSyntaxHilighter | 16:48 |
| lcuk | ahh, so you now use c++ :P | 16:48 |
| lcuk | still not all python really ;) | 16:48 |
| psycho_oreos | and yet there's has been _no_ answer for apt-mirror's equivalent to rpm | 16:48 |
| Khertan | indirectly as i use it from python ;) | 16:48 |
| Khertan | so i ll said 50%/50% | 16:49 |
| psycho_oreos | johnsq, still it defines that both are programming languages and that C is still a lower level language compared to Python | 16:49 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> python excells in binding | 16:49 |
| Khertan | psycho_oreos, wget :) | 16:49 |
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| lcuk | its a glue language, like arexx and vbs | 16:49 |
| Khertan | OUCH !!! DO NOT COMPARE TO VBS !!! | 16:49 |
| kerio | python is a multipurpose language | 16:49 |
| johnsq | psycho_oreos: no. from my side python is lower level. | 16:49 |
| Khertan | python is the answer ! | 16:50 |
| lcuk | Khertan, vbs is one of the high points of microsoft strategy | 16:50 |
| Khertan | #import antigravity | 16:50 |
| psycho_oreos | Khertan, more like wget with some nasty hacks and hoping it'll work.. whereas normally a RHCE certified person would say stuff like rsync.. but alas rsync isn't available on meego repos | 16:50 |
| kerio | python is a very high level language that lets you drop to very low level | 16:50 |
| kerio | Khertan: #import is a comment ._. | 16:50 |
| lcuk | if you underestimate it you missed a serious trick | 16:50 |
| Khertan | lcuk, yep the one that enable so many virus in the os | 16:50 |
| lcuk | any language can be abused | 16:50 |
| lcuk | it was open and extensible | 16:50 |
| lcuk | the issue was how it was started | 16:50 |
| Khertan | lcuk, yep but the problem of vbs isn't the language ... but the ms implementation | 16:51 |
| lcuk | ie, allowing running ANY code in an email | 16:51 |
| psycho_oreos | johnsq, I still can't see how Python would be a lower level language than C :) if that were the case, where's the examples of drivers and kernel of OS being made in Python? :) | 16:51 |
| lcuk | it doesnt matter the language in that respect | 16:51 |
| lcuk | no Khertan its nothing to do with vbs itself | 16:51 |
| Khertan | lcuk, not really ... as vbs ... mean microsoft implementation :) | 16:51 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: there's a os with a python kernel module for a fs, iirc | 16:51 |
| lcuk | or the implementation directly | 16:51 |
| johnsq | psycho_oreos: you can't compare them, that is my point. | 16:51 |
| kerio | vbscript is ugly | 16:52 |
| lcuk | python *complements* well written tools and libraries | 16:52 |
| psycho_oreos | johnsq, I wasn't comparing them on the programming side I'm comparing them in literal usages for frontend package management systems.. in which the cases were rpm vs deb | 16:52 |
| kerio | vbs is a crappy scripting language imo | 16:52 |
| Khertan | lcuk, python is the answer ... c/c++ is the other when you need performances | 16:53 |
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| psycho_oreos | kerio, still not a full blown OS that would run straight from the machine code no? :D | 16:53 |
| lcuk | kerio, read scrollback and dont just jump in | 16:53 |
| * kerio jumps out | 16:53 | |
| lcuk | Khertan, nahh python isn't "the" answer | 16:53 |
| lcuk | its a pathway | 16:53 |
| johnsq | psycho_oreos: yes and python didn't belong in the runtime system | 16:53 |
| * kerio jumps back in after confirming that he *has* read the scrollback | 16:54 | |
| kerio | python is a kickass programming language for fast development and anything that doesn't require a lot of numbercrunching | 16:54 |
| * lcuk slaps kerio | 16:54 | |
| psycho_oreos | johnsq, no I never said they were (or rather, as I'm getting confused about some programming jargons) but I have yet to see any low level benefits of Python vs C | 16:54 |
| kerio | and if something requires it, you can just write that tiny portion in c | 16:54 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, strings | 16:55 |
| lcuk | are a pain in the backend in c | 16:55 |
| * lcuk adores printf though | 16:55 | |
| kerio | py3k strings are pure unicode :3 | 16:55 |
| kerio | lcuk: str.format is incredibly powerful | 16:55 |
| * lcuk writes in many languages | 16:55 | |
| psycho_oreos | I know for example C can also incorporate ASM language | 16:55 |
| lcuk | and I still long for vb syntax sometimes | 16:56 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: and python can also incorporate C | 16:56 |
| johnsq | psycho_oreos: for package management your are config and dependencies parseing, there has python advantage, but you could use a small lib and do it in c | 16:56 |
| kerio | so yeah :D | 16:56 |
| lcuk | if mystring like "some*thing" then | 16:56 |
| kerio | lcuk: ew, blobs | 16:57 |
| psycho_oreos | johnsq, that's if somebody did write yum in C for example :) | 16:57 |
| kerio | give me true regexps if you really must | 16:57 |
| lcuk | i find it amusing that github identified liqbase-playground as being written in visual basic | 16:57 |
| psycho_oreos | kerio, but what about python incorporating ASM? :) | 16:57 |
| kerio | psycho_oreos: incorporate a c module with asm? | 16:57 |
| kerio | i thought that was the implied conclusion | 16:57 |
| lcuk | because I happen to have some vb code in it | 16:57 |
| johnsq | psycho_oreos: the problem is, when the package manager uses python code in the packages. | 16:57 |
| Khertan | http://norvig.com/python-iaq.html | 16:57 |
| Khertan | funny | 16:57 |
| Khertan | but apparently he didn't know how to do a singleton in python | 16:58 |
| psycho_oreos | kerio, probably not that that I've looked deeply into it.. funny how we've turned from debating about package management systems to bickering over programming languages | 16:58 |
| Khertan | not really a bad idea ... as a singleton is worse than a global in fact :) | 16:59 |
| Khertan | http://khertan.net/articles/gobject_idle_add_singleton | 16:59 |
| Khertan | ;) | 16:59 |
| nid0 | I hope you've learned your lesson as to how futile and pointless arguments about packaging methods is! | 16:59 |
| lcuk | <nid0> I hope you've learned your lesson as to how futile and pointless arguments about * methods is! | 16:59 |
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| nid0 | basically | 17:00 |
| nid0 | and arguments over text editorsd | 17:00 |
| lcuk | huh, hold on | 17:01 |
| lcuk | emacs ftw | 17:01 |
| Khertan | and to close the debate ... a tutorial on how to package an apps for maemo : http://khertan.net/articles/maemo/pypackager_howto | 17:01 |
| nid0 | get out. | 17:01 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 17:01 |
| Khertan | KhtEditor FTW | 17:01 |
| kerio | anyway, python can do everything | 17:01 |
| lcuk | Khertan, how does that close the debate | 17:01 |
| kerio | 'nuff said | 17:01 |
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| Khertan | lcuk, i don t know :) | 17:01 |
| lcuk | <kerio> anyway, python can do everything [slowly] | 17:01 |
| Khertan | lcuk, i hope you click on the link read the text and forgot to come back to #maemo | 17:02 |
| Khertan | it s one way :) | 17:02 |
| Khertan | lcuk, c is really fast ... to segfault ! | 17:02 |
| kerio | lcuk: adding cpu is usually cheaper than making better code :) | 17:02 |
| lcuk | PEBKAC | 17:03 |
| kerio | and of course, the small part that actually require performance can be rewritten in C as needed | 17:03 |
| psycho_oreos | blosy | 17:03 |
| psycho_oreos | bloat* | 17:03 |
| Khertan | python is slow if you like a spain cow ! | 17:03 |
| kerio | *requires | 17:03 |
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| Khertan | python is slow if you code like a spain cow ! | 17:03 |
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| lcuk | khertan I tried to use python to do a particle rendering system with gravity and stuff | 17:04 |
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| Khertan | and ? | 17:04 |
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| kerio | lcuk: number crunching | 17:04 |
| lcuk | and beyond 20 or so it got so uncontrolably slow :( | 17:04 |
| kerio | yeah | 17:04 |
| Venemo | hey guys | 17:04 |
| raster | kerio: entirely depends ... eg adding more cpu == making device 2x heavier because it needs a much fatter battery and now active cooling :) | 17:04 |
| lcuk | morning Venemo | 17:04 |
| Khertan | lol ... with sin, tan and cos everywhere ? | 17:04 |
| raster | also if you make 20,000,000 of a device | 17:04 |
| kerio | trigonometry everywhere in this bitch | 17:04 |
| Khertan | use precalc table | 17:05 |
| Venemo | lcuk: morning? | 17:05 |
| psycho_oreos | maths wins | 17:05 |
| lcuk | ugt | 17:05 |
| Venemo | lcuk: what's the time there? :) | 17:05 |
| raster | the extra "$3/device" (or whatevrr) to get the speed boost adds up to a phenominally large cost where improving the software actually is a lot cheaper | 17:05 |
| Khertan | look at vectormine ... | 17:05 |
| lcuk | raster, hiya dude | 17:05 |
| Khertan | source code | 17:05 |
| lcuk | how are you goin | 17:05 |
| raster | the embedded world thanks to its severe limits and often massive volume production has a different range of economics there | 17:05 |
| raster | :) | 17:05 |
| raster | lcuk: not too bad :) | 17:06 |
| lcuk | raster, got something to show you, can you work out how its done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM | 17:06 |
| raster | lcuk: thats kinda cool | 17:06 |
| lcuk | if software bloat and code optimizations were taken seriously we would have devices that work for much longer | 17:07 |
| lcuk | raster, it works nicely as a massive picture viewer | 17:07 |
| raster | we would | 17:07 |
| lcuk | a set of 9 devices can show their own part of the same ui | 17:07 |
| Venemo | lcuk: agreed about software bloat | 17:07 |
| raster | the prooblem is a human one | 17:07 |
| raster | 95% of the software industry is incompetent | 17:07 |
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| johnsq | raster: *lol* | 17:08 |
| raster | ie - they lack even the most basic understanding of what they do and thus are simply incapable of optimising something | 17:08 |
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| raster | thank god the % still exist and software is cheap to re-produce :) | 17:08 |
| kerio | 95% of humans are incompetent | 17:08 |
| raster | err the 5% still exist | 17:08 |
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| lcuk | thank god compilers don't allow most typos through ;) | 17:09 |
| raster | kerio: probably pretty true - but i cant really comment on that as i havent directly tried to evaluate them :) | 17:09 |
| Venemo | kerio: what do you think, how many percent of the average people know what a browser is? | 17:09 |
| raster | lcuk: indeed | 17:09 |
| Venemo | kerio: with this in mind, that 95% could be an understatement | 17:10 |
| Venemo | kerio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ | 17:10 |
| kerio | Venemo: hmm... 99.99999%? | 17:11 |
| Venemo | kerio: watch the video | 17:11 |
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| nid0 | well you're taking a very specific cross-section of stupidity there, 1) americans and 2) about geek stuffz | 17:11 |
| nid0 | you're bound to get a stupidity rate indistinguishable from 100% | 17:12 |
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| GAN900 | :rolleyes: | 17:13 |
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| Venemo | kerio: actually, less than 8% of people actually knew what a browser is | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | i think youtube comments are worse than tmo | 17:13 |
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| lcuk | i think calling people who are interested enough to comment about something is the wrong approach personally | 17:15 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, YouTube is the Internet ghetto. | 17:15 |
| GAN900 | It's impossible to find less coherent comments. | 17:15 |
| lcuk | the intelligent thing is being able to cut through the comment text and find the reason for their post | 17:16 |
| Khertan | GAN900 skyblog plateform is worse | 17:16 |
| jacekowski | raster: well, it's not only software industry | 17:17 |
| jacekowski | raster: it's everywhere | 17:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have some experimental code that does that for youtube. | 17:17 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, there usually isn't one. | 17:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | But for every comment on the site, it simply returns 'EUSERASSHAT'. | 17:18 |
| lcuk | GAN900, then you aren't looking hard enough | 17:18 |
| lcuk | or ignoring the reason | 17:18 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, clearly you have way too much time on your hands. | 17:18 |
| lcuk | no I don't | 17:18 |
| lcuk | I just know not to ignore feedback | 17:18 |
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| lcuk | or dismiss the person giving it as stupid | 17:18 |
| * GAN900 also suspects anti-depressants | 17:18 | |
| lcuk | yeah, you should get some | 17:19 |
| GAN900 | On Soulja Boy music video comments? | 17:19 |
| lcuk | i don't generally go looking at meme videos or need to understand the comments | 17:20 |
| lcuk | but I certainly see all sorts of comments around the maemo meego stuff | 17:20 |
| lcuk | and take the mood of them seriously | 17:20 |
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| raster | jacekowski: i'd just expect more of people who are meant to be intelligent AND trained by tertiary education in their field (ie did comp eng/sci) | 17:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Itr's unfortunartely hard to comment constructively, when the real problem is 'you bought the wrong phone'. | 17:21 |
| rff | Is there a stable,working g++ package for diablo on the nokia 810? | 17:21 |
| lcuk | g++ is gcc isn't it? | 17:21 |
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| lcuk | rff ^ | 17:21 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, I wasn't talking specifically about Maemo/MeeGo video comments. :) | 17:22 |
| rff | yeah, it includes g++ | 17:22 |
| Venemo | gcc compiles c, g++ compiles c++ | 17:22 |
| lcuk | well I was - since those are the videos that matter to us around here | 17:22 |
| rff | but I think they are separate on maemo | 17:22 |
| lcuk | rff, yes | 17:22 |
| lcuk | repository.maemo.org lists all the available repos | 17:22 |
| lcuk | there is an sdk/tools repo set | 17:22 |
| lcuk | which is intended for the sdk | 17:22 |
| rff | I'll check it out, thanks | 17:23 |
| lcuk | however you can get build-essential from within it | 17:23 |
| GAN900 | Tertiary education not necessarily having any correlation to idiocy or non-idiocy. *g* | 17:23 |
| rff | build-essential? | 17:23 |
| lcuk | which lets you build apps using makefiles and c and c++ etc | 17:23 |
| lcuk | yes | 17:23 |
| lcuk | adds gcc and make capabilities | 17:23 |
| lcuk | the essentials for buildign apps ;) | 17:23 |
| pupnik | i love yuv mode now | 17:23 |
| lcuk | pupnik, :) only now? | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | is that the little page I showed you | 17:24 |
| pupnik | so the lcd controller doesn't convert to 16-bit rgb before presenting it to the screen? | 17:24 |
| pupnik | yeah | 17:24 |
| pupnik | i didn't realize one could avoid the 565 quantisation that way | 17:24 |
| lcuk | no | 17:25 |
| lcuk | its very nice | 17:25 |
| lcuk | same as on the n8x0 too | 17:25 |
| pupnik | <- just learned something today :) | 17:25 |
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| lcuk | achievement unlocked! | 17:25 |
| * pupnik tests gemrb some more | 17:25 | |
| lcuk | for those wondering why this conversation is occuring: http://liqbase.net/liq.20100820_comparison_yuv_rgb_x11.htm | 17:26 |
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| kerio | i still don't get why we don't get 24bit in rgb mode :( | 17:28 |
| alterego | pupnik: opengl also uses full colour capabilities | 17:28 |
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| alterego | I noticed qmlviewer when backed with -opengl has much smoother gradients. | 17:28 |
| lcuk | kerio, 50% more data | 17:28 |
| lcuk | alterego, even when it goes through the compositor on the desktop? | 17:30 |
| alterego | Not tsure | 17:30 |
| kerio | is there an easy way to find the number of true bits in a bitmask? | 17:30 |
| kerio | i mean, of "true" bits | 17:30 |
| lcuk | I am not sure, but perhaps you are just noticing a similar sort of rendering conversion issue that the software renderer does differently to the ogl one | 17:30 |
| kerio | as in "1" | 17:30 |
| kerio | as opposed to 0 | 17:30 |
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| lcuk | kerio, I have seen some asm bitlogic in the past for that | 17:31 |
| lcuk | what do you want it for | 17:31 |
| kerio | lcuk: counting the poss | 17:31 |
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| lcuk | poss? | 17:32 |
| kerio | er | 17:32 |
| kerio | stupid return key >.< | 17:32 |
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| kerio | counting the possible values of a cell in a sudoku board | 17:32 |
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| raster | lcuk: rgb 2nds to almost always be 32bit - so 2x the data actually | 17:32 |
| kerio | keeping track of it in another value is a PITA | 17:32 |
| kerio | i could just use a string containing the numbers | 17:32 |
| kerio | but meh | 17:32 |
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| raster | as 24bit is grossly inefficient for access due to the 3 byte pixel groups | 17:32 |
| raster | tho i have toi say | 17:32 |
| raster | all my embedded toys run 32bpp | 17:33 |
| raster | as frankly. the quality is just nice | 17:33 |
| raster | 16bpp is dead | 17:33 |
| Kegetys | the screen can only display 18bit color anyway so 24bits would be a bit of a waste already | 17:33 |
| wolf^ | alterego, opengl does dithering (afair) | 17:33 |
| raster | on any modern smartphne-like hw | 17:33 |
| raster | Kegetys: not my screens. they do full 24bits :) | 17:33 |
| alterego | It's more than dithering | 17:33 |
| raster | but they also are super-amoled :) | 17:34 |
| lcuk | raster, sure, I run in truecolor also | 17:34 |
| Kegetys | well, N900 screen | 17:34 |
| lcuk | nice thing about YUV, it gracefully degrades to grayscale | 17:34 |
| raster | 18bpp vs 16bpp is also relatively noticable in terms of speed | 17:34 |
| lcuk | which should work nicely on bookreaders etc | 17:34 |
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| * Khertan is really happy with his new bug tracker | 17:39 | |
| wolf^ | alterego, http://team.pld-linux.org/~wolf/opengl.png | 17:39 |
| rff | lcuk: i've added http://repository.maemo.org/extras/install/extras.install but i'm not seeing a c/c++ or build-essentials package | 17:39 |
| raster | dithering is lame | 17:39 |
| Khertan | is there any go game for maemo ? | 17:39 |
| raster | :) | 17:39 |
| raster | 32bpp is da bomb | 17:39 |
| raster | :) | 17:39 |
| lcuk | rff, then you did not read either my comments, nor the page I linked | 17:39 |
| raster | 9ok ok dithering may be a necessary evil if all u have is 16bpp etc.) | 17:40 |
| alterego | wolf^: and? Do you think I don't know what dithering is? | 17:40 |
| wolf^ | alterego, and that's a screenshot of n900 opengl driver rendering "more that 16 bit" | 17:40 |
| lcuk | raster, how do you use alpha on the background itself, I understand needing it for middle layers, and for alignment, but the alpha component isnt used for anything on the lcd itself is it | 17:40 |
| rff | lcuk: why is that? | 17:41 |
| lcuk | rff, because I did not say to add extras repository | 17:41 |
| lcuk | so go and read what I did say | 17:41 |
| kerio | 256bpp is the shit | 17:41 |
| lcuk | vga mode-x is where its at :P | 17:41 |
| kerio | i want a 2000dpi screen with 256bpp of color depth | 17:42 |
| rff | ah, mistakenly thought extras included the SDK packages | 17:42 |
| kerio | i'll install one behind each window | 17:42 |
| kerio | add some eyetracking, and bam | 17:42 |
| kerio | awesome panorama | 17:42 |
| raster | lcuk: well the hw i have uses it as an optional alpha mask to the yuv layer | 17:43 |
| raster | as yuv is an underlay | 17:43 |
| raster | so u can blend rgb on top | 17:43 |
| raster | if u dont use yuv | 17:43 |
| kerio | raster: cool | 17:43 |
| raster | then the alpha in the fb is unused | 17:43 |
| raster | its just alignment padding | 17:43 |
| * lcuk nods | 17:43 | |
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| lcuk | whats the lifetime of amoled screens like, are you seeing any leaps and bounds in its longevity? | 17:44 |
| raster | well there have been over the years | 17:44 |
| raster | i just think they look gorgeouis | 17:44 |
| raster | like black is pure black | 17:45 |
| raster | no grey | 17:45 |
| raster | black. | 17:45 |
| raster | like nothing. nada. black | 17:45 |
| lcuk | of course, I have seen and touched, they are nice | 17:45 |
| raster | when screen turns on - u notice nothing | 17:45 |
| raster | unlike lcd where u see it go grey | 17:45 |
| raster | and super-amoled works just as wel las lcd in daylight etc. | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | raster: how's your linux adventures going? | 17:45 |
| raster | with reflections and so-on | 17:45 |
| raster | the colors are amazing | 17:45 |
| raster | compared to lcd | 17:46 |
| raster | they really are vivid | 17:46 |
| raster | its gorgeous | 17:46 |
| raster | only 1 problem | 17:46 |
| lcuk | there always is ;) | 17:46 |
| raster | the pentile matrix basicallt drops your r & b horizontal res/. | 17:46 |
| raster | Stskeeps: going well | 17:46 |
| raster | :) | 17:46 |
| lcuk | raster, yeah I know | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | raster: limo and android pissing their pants yet? | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:46 |
| lcuk | it drops the res and allows for seeming optimisations | 17:46 |
| lcuk | whilst saying you support x res, its lower ;) | 17:46 |
| raster | Stskeeps: la la la la la :) | 17:47 |
| raster | lcuk: well really there is no point trying to do hacks | 17:47 |
| rff | lcuk: unfortunately the link doesn't exist for the SDK repository targetting diablo | 17:47 |
| raster | "Cleartype" (subpixel font rendering) falls over on oled | 17:47 |
| raster | as the rgb arrangement is different | 17:48 |
| raster | i actually despise most such hacks | 17:48 |
| raster | that assume some kind fo screen properties | 17:48 |
| lcuk | rff then you are blind because I can see them | 17:48 |
| raster | they tend to sooner or later be obsoleeted or falll apart when screen tech changes | 17:48 |
| lcuk | raster, what I meant was that amoled using less pixels than advertised | 17:49 |
| lcuk | allows them to go faster whilst pushing less data | 17:49 |
| raster | for years it was all about how crt's doont have exact pixels and that pixels bleed based on brightness and that u have to always render with special gamma to account for crt | 17:49 |
| raster | then people got lcd's | 17:49 |
| raster | and that changed | 17:49 |
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| raster | then it was all the rages for sub-pixel rendering due to a semi-standard rgb lcd cell setup | 17:49 |
| raster | and now thats being killed off with oled simply being different again | 17:50 |
| raster | etc. | 17:50 |
| lcuk | raster, microsoft cleartype implementation has a lovely selector to choose the right layout of pixels | 17:50 |
| raster | oh i see the lower res with r & b | 17:50 |
| lcuk | its nice to see, the low end just accepts a switch | 17:50 |
| lcuk | and it works :) | 17:50 |
| raster | one of the things i noticed early on | 17:50 |
| raster | but i am willing to live with it in return for the colors and contrast | 17:51 |
| lcuk | raster, sure - i do a similar thing with YUV since it has lower res colours | 17:51 |
| lcuk | but full res b+w | 17:51 |
| RST38h | raster: I find it weird how people never mention that those wonderful LED-lit screents produce shitty color | 17:51 |
| raster | lcuk: one thing i despise about it even when its "right for your display" is the color fringing | 17:51 |
| RST38h | Worse than the normal EL-lit LCDs | 17:51 |
| raster | you introduce colorisation where there was no color before | 17:51 |
| raster | and it irks me something wicked | 17:51 |
| raster | RST38h: dunno - my tv @ home is defintiely nicer than my previous el-backlight one | 17:52 |
| raster | and boy is it thin and light | 17:52 |
| raster | even tho it got bigger from 42 ->46" | 17:53 |
| raster | its even nicer than it ever was before | 17:53 |
| RST38h | raster: yep, that is true | 17:53 |
| raster | "it depends" i guess | 17:53 |
| RST38h | raster: But all three LED-lit computer displays I have seen pale (literally) when compared with the old IBM's EL-lit display | 17:53 |
| raster | but i do think the marketing gimmick of "led screens" is annyoing | 17:53 |
| raster | aas its "led backlight with lcd front filter" | 17:53 |
| RST38h | raster: yep | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | raster: But that would be ok, if they looked better | 17:54 |
| rff | lcuk: does http://repository.maemo.org/install/diablo-tools.install give you a 404? | 17:54 |
| RST38h | raster: Another weird effects: when looking at the HP LED-lit display through glasses, all the window edges have red double-edge | 17:54 |
| raster | hmm | 17:55 |
| RST38h | raster: I first thought it is the display itself, but then took the glasses off - and it is gone | 17:55 |
| raster | odd | 17:55 |
| raster | i havent got an led pc monitor to judge by | 17:55 |
| raster | but my tv looks awesome :) | 17:55 |
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| RST38h | raster: Both LED-lit laptop screens I have look ok (just pale) | 17:55 |
| RST38h | raster: better than a CRT tv? ;) | 17:55 |
| raster | hell yeah | 17:56 |
| RST38h | raster: weird | 17:56 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, odd, what prescription? | 17:56 |
| raster | i'll be happy to never see another crt again | 17:57 |
| RST38h | GAN900_ -5/-5 | 17:57 |
| RST38h | raster: Got an EL-lit LCD TV and an ancient Goldstar (!) CRT | 17:57 |
| RST38h | raster: Freaking CRT has got a better color. | 17:58 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, pretty decent. | 17:58 |
| RST38h | GAN: You should try it for yourself, in BestBuy or something | 17:58 |
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| GAN900 | The LED-lit Apple IPSes I've seen all look better. | 17:58 |
| RST38h | GAN: Look for a 24" or so LED_lit HP display | 17:58 |
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| RST38h | GAN: If you do not see it, then it must be the lense covering or something | 17:59 |
| lcuk | rff, not sure I was thinking about the info rather than a .install file - the sdk is not technically designed for on device use however it does work. you will have to dig | 17:59 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, yeah, haven't seen any TN LED panels yet. | 17:59 |
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| RST38h | moo wazd | 18:00 |
| rff | yeah, maybe i can just create my own install file | 18:00 |
| pupnik | raster: only a few LED backlights are actually a fine individually steerable matrix - iirc, the rest are sidelit | 18:01 |
| lcuk | rff, using an install file is fruitless | 18:01 |
| lcuk | since you cannot install the command line apps for the sdk using HAM | 18:01 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Sidelit will look like real shit on any decently sized display | 18:01 |
| RST38h | pupnik: So, I would still believe those 12"+ LED-lit displays are backlit | 18:02 |
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| pupnik | i have no idea where i read that - maybe it's all wrong | 18:02 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Extreme example of sidelit was the original GBA | 18:02 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Less extreme examples are N8x0 and Symbian phones | 18:02 |
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| pupnik | very happy with the n900 display: just need either more battery or less drain | 18:04 |
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| Pincy | anyone here playing ja2? | 18:04 |
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| Pincy | how do i aim and shoot...? when i hold the cursor over an enemy, it stays a hand | 18:06 |
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| rff | lcuk: i'm running into major dependency issues. i can't install build-essential because it depends on libc6-dev, libc6, gcc, g++, etc. and I don't see libc6 listed in the repository. | 18:06 |
| rff | ah, it is listed under the gcc package | 18:09 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Yea, N900 display is very decent. But it is small enough to bse sidelit | 18:10 |
| rff | hm, no it isn't. It must be somewhere else. | 18:10 |
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| rff | it's under glibc | 18:12 |
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| svuorela | a/win 34 | 18:14 |
| svuorela | fail | 18:14 |
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| rff | i'm getting an issue where libstdc++6-dev cannot be installed because it depends on g++-3.4 and g++-3.4 cannot be installed because it depends on libstdc++6-dev, what gives? | 18:34 |
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| Munkiii | hello... i have a n900 browser based problem... | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Munkiii: ? | 18:36 |
| Munkiii | a webpage isn't loading fully/properley for me | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | which one? | 18:36 |
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| Munkiii | can somebody go on facebook and search for "situare" | 18:36 |
| SpeedEvil | don't have facebook. | 18:36 |
| Munkiii | anybody? | 18:37 |
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| Munkiii | somebody in here must do? | 18:38 |
| tobis87 | Wow, Aes, sha1 and md5 acceleration drivers for omap2 are now available: https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/95680/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/95681/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/98168/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/120630/ https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/120631/ | 18:38 |
| tobis87 | Would they work on the n900 as well? | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - I noted they were going into kernel. | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | a while back. | 18:39 |
| tobis87 | Yes but the aes driver is new. | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a hardware hash unit - are the others accellerated asm? | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | or other functional units than the CPU? | 18:39 |
| Munkiii | how do u change my text colour using Xchat? | 18:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | I think it picks it up from the theme - I'm unsure. | 18:41 |
| rff | ah ha, you have to install them simultaneously | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | actually - no | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | settings->preferences -> colors | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | in xchat | 18:42 |
| Munkiii | i'm in that... but can't see which one changes the colour of my messages | 18:42 |
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| Munkiii | worked? | 18:43 |
| Munkiii | nope | 18:43 |
| tobis87 | The only asm, I found in the aes driver https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/120631/ is "* prevent OCP bus error (SRESP) (...) __asm__ __volatile__("nop"); " | 18:44 |
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| Venemo | tobis87: about the driver: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mbx3d-drivers-out-for-n8x0-and-other.html and http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/05/first-instance-of-what-have-i-done-for.html | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - right - hardware AES | 18:48 |
| SpeedEvil | diddn't know that | 18:48 |
| SpeedEvil | neat | 18:48 |
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| tobis87 | Venemo: Sorry, but I only see information about a MBX/3D driver. | 18:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I want mergemem. | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/mergemem/ | 18:51 |
| SpeedEvil | which hardware hashers would make easier | 18:51 |
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| tobis87 | Does the n900 also have hardware aes support? And if it does, is it possible to adopt the driver? | 18:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | tobis87: Well - that comment in the code seems to imply so | 18:52 |
| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: So do you think it would be possible to backport the aes driver for the n900 kernel? The sha1 and md5 driver would be hard, because 2.6.28 does not support shash which the new driver depends on. | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't see why not | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | It's obviously possible. | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I have absolutely no idea how much work it would be. | 18:54 |
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| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: latest mergemem files are from 1999?!:-D | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | See also http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6789156 | 18:59 |
| SpeedEvil | And note the date | 18:59 |
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| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: I don't know but does linux not already do memory sharing, by supplying libc for example as a readonly libary in memory which is shared between all processes? | 19:06 |
| n900evil | yes | 19:07 |
| n900evil | but | 19:07 |
| n900evil | startmtwo bashes | 19:08 |
| n900evil | they init lots of 'new" data that is really the same. | 19:08 |
| GAN900 | Engadget now takes weeks to load more than the first story on the page in MicroB. | 19:09 |
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| Munkiii | color test... | 19:15 |
| Munkiii | color test... | 19:15 |
| Munkiii | sorted. | 19:16 |
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| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: The first problem regarding the aes driver is, that there are missing includes, do you think I can replace <plat/cpu.h> and <plat/dma.h> with <mach/cpu.h> and <mach/dma.h>? | 19:30 |
| SpeedEvil | tobis87: Hang on - let me get my kernel reference. | 19:31 |
| SpeedEvil | It says 'Outlook unclear, ask again later'. | 19:31 |
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| Khertan | Hi someone can explain me why my feed content isn't display on http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ | 19:32 |
| Khertan | it s look ok when i look at the feed directly : http://khertan.net/category/maemo/feed/ | 19:33 |
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| Venemo | ~seen lcuk | 19:36 |
| infobot | lcuk is currently on #maemo (4h 59m 31s) #meego (4h 59m 31s). Has said a total of 228 messages. Is idling for 1h 34m 38s, last said: 'since you cannot install the command line apps for the sdk using HAM'. | 19:36 |
| Khertan | hu ... just notice that there is pymaemo in gitorious but also harmattan python | 19:36 |
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| Venemo | Khertan: yeah, interesting stuff going on on gitorious | 19:37 |
| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: I have successful buld omap-aes.ko, next to go omap-sham.ko, replacing it with mach worked, but I'm not sure if it is correct. But I can only modify the modules, the stuff which has to go into the kernel has to do someone else, since i can only compile on the device. | 19:37 |
| Khertan | Venemo, interesting but strange too ... why 2 projects | 19:37 |
| Khertan | ok maybe the maemo name in meego :) | 19:38 |
| Venemo | Khertan: if you look at http://maemo.gitorious.org/ there are already some stuff from Harmattan | 19:38 |
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| Khertan | Venemo, yeah ... i see it :) | 19:39 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps, ping | 19:39 |
| Khertan | python 2.6 at least for meego :) | 19:39 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo: zzz | 19:39 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: just read your analysis on http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ | 19:40 |
| Khertan | pyside is in gitorious too | 19:40 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: can I ask what is the 40% closed component in hildon-desktop? | 19:40 |
| tobis87 | SpeedEvil: Exactly what I thought, omap-sham will cause troubles. The shash stuff is missing. -> implicit declaration of function crypto_shash_blocksize ... | 19:40 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: interestingly, you wrote that 40% of hildon-desktop comes from L7, I'm curious which part is it? | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: sec | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | keep in mind 40% is amount of source packages | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | hildon-desktop-applet-settings-mr0 | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | hildon-desktop-application-shortcuts-mr0 | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | translations | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | click the 40% | 19:42 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: ah... hm. | 19:43 |
| Khertan | L7 ? | 19:44 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: do we know what do these things do? | 19:44 |
| Venemo | Khertan: read that page | 19:44 |
| Venemo | Khertan: L7: Not published except on device and SSU repositories | 19:44 |
| Khertan | :) | 19:44 |
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| Venemo | Khertan: this is a study about the openness of Maemo | 19:45 |
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| Venemo | Khertan: according to this, only 43% of the packages are open on the N900 | 19:45 |
| Khertan | other 100% :) | 19:45 |
| Khertan | yep ... it s look like a nice description, listing ... | 19:47 |
| Venemo | Khertan: it is quite informative, yes | 19:47 |
| Khertan | yep | 19:48 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: after some googling of the two closed packages, these are no big deal | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | they're translations | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:49 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: no | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | Venemo, and despite numerous protestations to the contrary, it's likely never to improve. | 19:51 |
| Khertan | it s strange to see that modest depends on closed package | 19:51 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: they are not translations http://maemo.org/packages/view/hildon-desktop-applet-settings-mr0/ http://maemo.org/packages/view/hildon-desktop-application-shortcuts-mr0/ | 19:53 |
| Venemo | Khertan: I guess this is in order to keep people from messing with it | 19:53 |
| Khertan | hum ... more than it is actually ? | 19:53 |
| Khertan | haha | 19:53 |
| Venemo | I must admit that this is very cleverly thought out. The closed dependencies are there to prevent using it anywhere outside of Maemo (I guess) | 19:54 |
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| Venemo | brb | 19:55 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo: ah, customizations | 19:57 |
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| Khertan | so anyone know how maemo planet works ? | 19:59 |
| Khertan | i still didn't understand why my feed aren't display well | 20:00 |
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| GAN900 | Khertan, get X-Fade to look at you RSS. | 20:08 |
| Khertan | GAN900, oh ... I ll bother X-Fade again :) | 20:09 |
| Khertan | GAN900, oh ... I ll borring X-Fade again :) | 20:09 |
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| GAN900 | Hey, why else is he here? ;) | 20:09 |
| Khertan | lol | 20:09 |
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| slonopotamus | err... does https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5549#c9 logic look completely broken only to me? | 20:21 |
| povbot | Bug 5549: libosso-abook should be open source | 20:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Not at all. | 20:22 |
| slonopotamus | "we won't develop it anymore -> we won't give you a chance to develop" | 20:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you start out with the point of view 'Do we want people developing this' | 20:23 |
| slonopotamus | SpeedEvil: what would they lose? | 20:24 |
| Khertan | there is a little logic | 20:25 |
| Khertan | that i didn't caution | 20:25 |
| Khertan | but qgil explain it in a talk post | 20:25 |
| Venemo | re | 20:26 |
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| slonopotamus | (to be honest, i don't care about libosso-abook) | 20:26 |
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| slonopotamus | but reasoning just seems to be broken | 20:27 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: well, it is broken | 20:27 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: but I actually agree with you | 20:27 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: why don't you express your opinion in a comment there? | 20:28 |
| Khertan | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=783133&postcount=25 | 20:28 |
| slonopotamus | Venemo: it's useless | 20:28 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan: throwing tarball at ppl is an option too. | 20:29 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: agreed | 20:29 |
| Khertan | it s not really an option for them | 20:30 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: but... after we will have a working MeeGo on the N900, this and similar stuff will no longer be an issue | 20:30 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan: we would never see quake engines opensourced if Id Software followed that logic | 20:30 |
| Khertan | as they want to not do just open source code ... but open source dev | 20:30 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan: id opened them _because_ they no longer used them | 20:30 |
| Khertan | slonopotamus, i didn't say i agree ... i'm not the guy to convince :) | 20:31 |
| Khertan | look at vectormine ... it s now gpl :) | 20:31 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan: id software loses nothing, community is happy, john carmac is a hero, etc :) | 20:31 |
| pupnik | awesome Khertan | 20:31 |
| pupnik | just needs a Space Duel mod now | 20:32 |
| Khertan | slonopotamus, he was already an hero before :) | 20:32 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan: nokia fails to do opensource dev. look at qt. | 20:32 |
| Khertan | pupnik, héhé ... if you code the bt communication :) | 20:32 |
| Khertan | slonopotamus, ? what s the problem with qt ? | 20:32 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: please elaborate :) | 20:33 |
| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/vectormine/1.1.0-4/ <<< 4 votes needed to reach extras :) | 20:33 |
| pupnik | vectormine (v. 1.0.7-1) correct for n810? | 20:34 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan: afair i saw a post on planet maemo, will try to find again | 20:34 |
| Khertan | hum 1.0.7-1 is the non-free | 20:34 |
| Khertan | pupnik, and for n810 it ll failed as i use the n900 accellerometers | 20:34 |
| Khertan | but can be replace by keys | 20:35 |
| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_source/vectormine/1.1.0-4/ <<< the source | 20:35 |
| pupnik | ok that's np | 20:35 |
| pupnik | ty | 20:35 |
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| slonopotamus | Khertan: first one http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-39d804f894f811df92cd43948f59e6d1e6d1 | 20:37 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan: 1 min, had another link | 20:37 |
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| kerio | do you know if there's a sudoku for n900 | 20:38 |
| kerio | ? | 20:38 |
| lcuk | kerio, http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=sudoku&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same | 20:39 |
| lcuk | yes | 20:39 |
| lcuk | multiple versions | 20:39 |
| Venemo | kerio: I use EightyOne, but there are more | 20:40 |
| _0x47 | Hi all! If you had some source code from subversion and would package it into a .deb, would you keep the .svn directories inside to be able to update the sources and easily repackage it? | 20:40 |
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| kerio | i was thinking of making another sudoku application for maemo | 20:41 |
| kerio | am i an idiot? | 20:41 |
| kerio | i mean, regarding this | 20:41 |
| lcuk | _0x47, you mean pushing the hidden svn meta info in the source uploaded to extras{devel|testing} etc? | 20:41 |
| _0x47 | lcuk: yes, indeed | 20:41 |
| lcuk | then, no do not include it | 20:41 |
| _0x47 | ok, thanks! :) | 20:42 |
| lcuk | for one thing, doesn't it save your password ;) | 20:42 |
| _0x47 | lcuk: public access, but good point | 20:42 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk: no, it's in ~/.subversion | 20:42 |
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| slonopotamus | Khertan: ahha, found it. http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2010/07/20/qts-open-bug-tracker/ | 20:43 |
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| Khertan | slonopotamus, it s not really so bad ... just need some improvments ... | 20:45 |
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| slonopotamus | Khertan: it's just pretending to be open :) | 20:47 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: they still have to learn how to do open source development properly, that's all | 20:47 |
| Khertan | it's open ... they just need some time to change things | 20:48 |
| slonopotamus | Venemo: look at openoffice and sun jdk. they have same issues as nokia and are not going to fix them | 20:49 |
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| slonopotamus | well, openoffice is even worse since it accepts commits only if you give copyrights to sun/oracle :) | 20:50 |
| slonopotamus | s/commits/patches/ | 20:50 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: well, openoffice is even worse since it accepts patches only if you give copyrights to sun/oracle :) | 20:50 |
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| Venemo | slonopotamus: well then, Nokia is already learning | 20:51 |
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| Venemo | slonopotamus: actually, with contribution Hildon to GNOME, they already did some very nice open source efforts | 20:51 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 20:51 |
| Venemo | slonopotamus: contribution => contributing | 20:52 |
| Venemo | johnsq: Hello! | 20:52 |
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| Khertan | hum ... someone know where is the meego handset image for n900 ... i would like to install it to try some python qt apps | 20:57 |
| someone | hello | 20:57 |
| Khertan | oups wrong chan | 20:57 |
| someone | what was the name of that bluesnafting program for maemo/n900 ? | 20:57 |
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| pupnik | Khertan: you think it would be possible to run dhcp over bluetooth? | 20:59 |
| Khertan | none idea | 20:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: They are trying to 'manage' the community, much as they would in-house coders. | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | For in-house coders, it's quite valid to say 'no, you can't work on that, work on this'. | 21:01 |
| SpeedEvil | And this gets the effort, not that. | 21:01 |
| SpeedEvil | For opensource community, this doesn't quite work. | 21:01 |
| SpeedEvil | As people may want to work on stuff that does not fit your preconcieved framework. | 21:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Which can get really embarrasing if the 'old clunky' interface gets extended in a nice fashion and performs better in all aspects than the 'bright shiny new' one. | 21:02 |
| SpeedEvil | This can be avoided by not opensourcing the old clunky one. | 21:02 |
| Venemo | Khertan: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 | 21:03 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: heh ._. | 21:03 |
| kerio | really, someone should break in the nokia hq and post all the source to wikileaks | 21:03 |
| kerio | from the CEO's workstation | 21:03 |
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| Khertan | kerio, did you really think CEO has source ... they just manage team :) | 21:04 |
| Khertan | s/team/teams | 21:04 |
| kerio | Khertan: i think the CEO definetely *has* access to the source | 21:05 |
| Khertan | i doubt | 21:06 |
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| Khertan | in my company i prefer to not let him break somethings | 21:06 |
| Khertan | :) | 21:06 |
| kerio | Khertan: i wasn't talking about commit access | 21:07 |
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| RST38h | <yawn> | 21:35 |
| * Venemo agrees with RST38h | 21:38 | |
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| lardman | evening all | 21:40 |
| lardman | ~lart Debian naming | 21:40 |
| * infobot nukes Debian naming with a single large nuke | 21:40 | |
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| lardman | I wasted a couple of hours trying to compile python-qt-blah, thinking that was PythonQT, but no, it was in fact PyQT | 21:40 |
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| lardman | hey crashanddie | 21:42 |
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| lardman | ah, that affect again ;) | 21:42 |
| lardman | s/affect/effect oops | 21:42 |
| RST38h | heya lardman | 21:43 |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 21:43 |
| Venemo | lardman: hey | 21:43 |
| lardman | hi Venemo | 21:43 |
| lardman | anything exciting going on this weekend in maemo-land? | 21:43 |
| Venemo | not really | 21:43 |
| lardman | am considering whether to try to package PythonQT, but think I might wait till tomorrow | 21:44 |
| Venemo | lardman: perhaps check this out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60599 | 21:44 |
| lardman | hmm, interesting | 21:45 |
| alterego | Venemo: played much with QML? | 21:45 |
| lardman | I was thinking that disabling the UI effects should be included in that control panel applet | 21:45 |
| Venemo | alterego: not yet | 21:46 |
| lardman | tweakr | 21:46 |
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| lardman | Khertan: you about? thanks for your thoughts with the code but it was the wrong one | 21:47 |
| lardman | Khertan: I've now compiled PythonQT successfully, will package and push to the repo tomorrow fwiw | 21:48 |
| lardman | and on that note, I'm going to head to watch a DVD, cu chaps tomorrow | 21:48 |
| lcukn900 | lardman there was a load of discussion about how to package up hacks | 21:48 |
| lardman | lcukn900: hacks? | 21:48 |
| lcukn900 | yeah console tridcks nut i have to go | 21:49 |
| lardman | was simply the wrong code yesterday, my fault (and Debian's naming scheme) | 21:49 |
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| lardman | was PyQT rather than PythonQT | 21:49 |
| lardman | the wonders of unambiguous naming ;) | 21:49 |
| lardman | anyway, will catch you all tomorrow :) | 21:50 |
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| Guest68862 | can someone tell me what was the software named that can bluesnarf other bluetooth enabled phones? | 22:05 |
| Guest68862 | it was for n900/maemo | 22:05 |
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| delirus | anyone have exerience with internet over usb on an n900? | 22:07 |
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| lcuk | delirus, you mean using the n900 as a modem for your laptop, or getting internet through main computer into your n900 | 22:17 |
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| kerio | delirus: both are equally valid options for "internet over usb on a n900" | 22:23 |
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| delirus | ah, I mean getting internet to my n900 through usb | 22:26 |
| Venemo | goodbye everyone :) | 22:26 |
| Venemo | good night | 22:26 |
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| delirus | was just wondering if anyone had any problems in the process of doing it | 22:27 |
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| kerio | delirus: hmm, there's a wiki page on that | 22:27 |
| delirus | ah, can I get a link? | 22:27 |
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| kerio | http://wiki.maemo.org/ | 22:28 |
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| Snark1994 | Um, hiya people... Quick question about contacts - does anyone know an easy way to access Number/Contact-name pairings from Python? (ie. using the number +447891234567, check whose name I have that registered to in my contacts list) | 22:31 |
| Snark1994 | I've found lib-abook, but that's a C library | 22:31 |
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| Snark1994 | and I was wondering if there was a way to access them without going through that | 22:31 |
| * unixSnob just read a page claiming GPG only works for signatures on maemo | 22:33 | |
| unixSnob | is that true? | 22:33 |
| unixSnob | no crypto apps? | 22:34 |
| unixSnob | no secure email? | 22:34 |
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| kerio | huh? why would it only work for signatures? | 22:38 |
| kerio | it's a cpu | 22:39 |
| kerio | it calculates things | 22:39 |
| unixSnob | kerio: see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/34803 | 22:39 |
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| unixSnob | maemo may be crippled to stay thin | 22:40 |
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| unixSnob | not sure what else it would be | 22:40 |
| flux | well, if that's the case, then it's likely because signature verification has been the only systme requirement for gpg | 22:40 |
| flux | I suppose otherwise it wouldn't even be bundled | 22:41 |
| flux | nothing prevents you from putting in your own GPG if you wish | 22:41 |
| unixSnob | dd-wrt is missing some hash algorithms because they're too heavy for an underpowered cpu.. could be the same thing | 22:41 |
| flux | (AFAIK the mail program doesn't support encryption, though, but its source is available as well ;-)) | 22:41 |
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| unixSnob | flux: these algorithms are compiled into GPG.. it wouldn't be trivial to just add an algorithm | 22:42 |
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| hrw | hi | 22:42 |
| flux | unixsnob, it's a console app. I believe it _would_ be trivial to take the standard gnupg and build it in scratchbox and package it etc. or just copy the binary. | 22:42 |
| flux | unixsnob, it's not like it uses any special hardware for encryption | 22:42 |
| unixSnob | possible.. but not trivial for a user.. users don't expect to have to work with a scratchpad | 22:43 |
| unixSnob | it's not even trivial to install a scratchpad | 22:43 |
| flux | well, users don't except to drop into xterm to run gpg.. | 22:43 |
| hrw | someone know why packages from testing are not promoted automatically to extras when maintainter gets email that it can be done? | 22:43 |
| unixSnob | I had to do quite a bit of work to get a scratchpad going | 22:43 |
| flux | it apperas there there's something like gnupg2 available in the repositories | 22:44 |
| unixSnob | i'll check it out | 22:44 |
| hrw | cause mdbus2 2.0.0-4 was in testing and got all to be promoted to extras but in meantime I pushed 2.0.2 ver to devel (forgot to testing) | 22:44 |
| flux | unixsnob, in addition, there's openssl command line tool, which can be used for encryption/decryption as well | 22:45 |
| unixSnob | openssl wouldn't help me.. I want to be able to decrypt gpg messages | 22:46 |
| unixSnob | folks could probably really use this capability in the middle east | 22:47 |
| kerio | unixSnob: write a package then | 22:47 |
| muellis3 | how would I create a new 3G connection? I need to be able to connect to different APNs. | 22:47 |
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| unixSnob | where India and saudi arabia are now snooping on Blackberry IMs | 22:47 |
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| nox- | moin | 22:48 |
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| kerio | unixSnob: install fAPN | 22:53 |
| kerio | and expect weirdness if you enable autoconnect | 22:53 |
| kerio | hehe, maemo's package names rule | 22:53 |
| kerio | fap'n | 22:53 |
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| unixSnob | kerio: i don't quite follow.. looks like a GSM app, correct? Are you saying it will install public key crypto? | 22:57 |
| kerio | no, wait, confused the usernames | 22:57 |
| kerio | ._. | 22:57 |
| kerio | muellisoft: install fAPN | 22:57 |
| unixSnob | ah | 22:57 |
| kerio | and expect weirdness if you enable autoconnect | 22:57 |
| kerio | unixSnob: you compile your own public key crypto! | 22:57 |
| kerio | how can you be sure it works, otherwise? | 22:57 |
| kerio | :D | 22:57 |
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| unixSnob | i just trust that everyone else has looked at it | 22:58 |
| muellisoft | hm kerio. So can I not simply have multilpe GSM/UMTS based connections? Like with WiFi? | 22:58 |
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| unixSnob | and i hope everyone else isn't counting on the same thing | 22:58 |
| kerio | Muelli: you can, but maemo software is not meant to support multiple APNs | 22:58 |
| kerio | so the autoconnect won't work properly | 22:59 |
| kerio | apart from that, it should work fine | 22:59 |
| Muelli | kerio: you mean multiple GSM/UMTS connections? Because a connection cannot have multiple APNs. | 23:04 |
| kerio | yeah | 23:04 |
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| Muelli | kerio: how would I create a new cellular connection then? | 23:06 |
| kerio | install fAPN | 23:06 |
| kerio | (really, who picks those names) | 23:06 |
| luke-jr | Muelli: you'll only be able to have one connection active at a time in Maemo tho | 23:07 |
| Muelli | hm. I hoped I could do that without installing 3rd party tools | 23:07 |
| Muelli | luke-jr: sure. I'm fine with that. | 23:08 |
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| luke-jr | hmm, maybe my N810 battery really IS fried… booted Maemo for the first time in months, and it isn't charging there either | 23:44 |
| delta | does anyone have a paper on getting N900 to work as a usb modem on windows 7? | 23:44 |
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| _llll_ | google joikuspot | 23:45 |
| oneil | hi | 23:45 |
| oneil | i need help , i follwed this link thru the maemo platform | 23:46 |
| oneil | anyone here? | 23:46 |
| _llll_ | you should follow the usual etiquette | 23:46 |
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| _llll_ | ie do not ask "is anyone here", or "can anyone help", or "does anyone know about...?" just ask what you want to ask | 23:47 |
| LiraNuna | hey guys, is it possible to run maemo5 on other architectures? | 23:47 |
| LiraNuna | s/architectures/ARM devices. | 23:47 |
| SpeedEvil | LiraNuna: In principle yes. | 23:48 |
| oneil | sorr6 about that.....my appologies | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | In practrice, not really. | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Maemo 5 has large binary blobs. | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Which can'rt be recompiled on arbitrary platrforms. | 23:48 |
| LiraNuna | what about a device with similar hardware? | 23:48 |
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| oneil | 23:49 | |
| LiraNuna | Droid 2 with Maemo would make my pants wet | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall people trying to get it to boot on beagleboard, whihc is quite similar | 23:49 |
| delta | _llll_: I don't want a wireless hotspot running on my phone, thanks. | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I would not expect the phone to work | 23:49 |
| kerio | delta: hmm | 23:52 |
| kerio | install nokia pc suite, click on "connect"? | 23:52 |
| lcuk | delta, n900 as usb modem works flawlessly in ubuntu, I am not sure about windows though, sorry | 23:53 |
| *** Dialekt has quit IRC | 23:53 | |
| * timeless frowns | 23:54 | |
| timeless | anyone here use Skype to make 800 calls? | 23:54 |
| nox- | hmm would this help delta? http://europe.nokia.com/support/download-software/pc-suites/how-to/connect-to-the-web | 23:55 |
| kerio | 800 calls? | 23:55 |
| timeless | i'm having trouble using the dialpad to log into a certain service | 23:55 |
| LiraNuna | timeless, I don't really count, but I don't think I made 800 calls | 23:55 |
| kerio | that's a lot of calls | 23:55 |
| timeless | http://blogs.skype.com/en/2006/05/free_calls_to_all_landlines_an.html | 23:55 |
| lcuk | timeless, Update: This offer has now ended, unfortunately. However, you can still make cheap calls to the USA, or check out our subscriptions for even better value for regular callers. | 23:56 |
| timeless | hrm, wrong hit | 23:56 |
| lcuk | lol | 23:56 |
| timeless | http://blogs.skype.com/en/2005/07/free_calls_to_tollfree_phone_n.html | 23:56 |
| timeless | try that one? | 23:56 |
| lcuk | you are timeless, I didn't know you are a timelord! | 23:56 |
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| lcuk | thats 2005 | 23:56 |
| Carneque | Hey all, can you run apache server yet on the N900? | 23:56 |
| oneil | How can i rectify this- when i tried to download the kmplayer my n900 prompts that@i nee this application package-xsltproc | 23:57 |
| lcuk | timeless, which countries have you tried using to call | 23:58 |
| timeless | i've used it for usa and uk | 23:58 |
| timeless | it's been around for the usa for a long time | 23:59 |
| timeless | that's apparently the global announce instead of the original announce | 23:59 |
| lcuk | i think the uk tollfree numbers all changed to 08000 | 23:59 |
| timeless | it's actually the most important skype feature | 23:59 |
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