IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-08-16

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DangerMaus_da maus is in da haus00:07
DangerMaus_oops00:07
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Proteous  ...00:08
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DocScrutinizer( <luke-jr> just that it's better to use a slightly older version ) so wtf is everybody so eager to jump to meego?00:44
DocScrutinizerwhy isn't Nokia themselves developing on maemo - e.g. a decent ovi maps, with all bells and whistles, and *then* port it to meego when they think they need it over there00:45
DocScrutinizerwould serve both purposes, supporting and showing dedication to maemo, and same time verifying/testing the supposed migration path00:47
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DocScrutinizerI mean, how would anybody trust in suggested maemo backwards compatibility of meego, if not even the protagonists of meego dare to use maemo as a development environment and prove the portability00:49
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: because corporations don't reason that way00:50
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: most managers believe: "Develop for one platform, no porting needed, plus because platform x is under high development, we'll get support"00:50
DocScrutinizermhm, due to lack of sensible product managers00:51
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crashanddiei would also wager that most PMs don't actually know nor care about meego/maemo. They just see a list of platforms, and make the easiest/fastest choice00:51
DocScrutinizerthen a monkey did a better job on that position00:52
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:52
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DocScrutinizermaybe even a pair of dice or a big void wuld do a better job00:53
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: here's something so soothe your mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5BNgusT3rE01:00
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anarcathi01:01
anarcati don't understand why i can't install this package on my n900: http://maemo.org/packages/view/mbarcode/01:01
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anarcatin general, have any of you been able to do qrcode scanning on the n900?01:01
crashanddieanarcat: lardman is one of the main devs01:02
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crashanddieanarcat: he should be in here in about 10 hours01:02
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anarcati see01:02
anarcatbut the package is there... i just don't see it in my app manager... why is that?01:03
kerioanarcat: i am01:03
kerioit works01:03
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kerioand... ctrl+shift+x, root, apt-get install mbarcode01:03
DocScrutinizerLOL01:04
anarcatkerio: couldn't find package mbarcode01:04
anarcatkerio: i feel like i haven't enable "extras" in here, but i don't see how i can do that01:04
anarcati mean, there's a maemo.org line in there01:05
Fadihi01:05
keriois mbarcode is extras?01:05
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anarcati don't know, looks like it: http://maemo.org/packages/view/mbarcode/01:05
anarcator is this extras-devel?01:06
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crashanddieanarcat: devel and testing01:06
DocScrutinizerkerio: watch http://maemo.org/packages/view/mbarcode/ and answer your own question01:06
crashanddieanarcat: look at the "Releases" part01:06
kerionah, cba01:06
Fadihi01:07
anarcatcrashanddie: so i need to add devel?01:07
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crashanddieI won't reply to that01:07
kerioanarcat: just testing would be better, atm01:07
kerioand expect trouble01:07
crashanddieanarcat: the general rule is "if you need to ask, the answer is no"01:07
anarcathum01:07
anarcater01:08
anarcatso how do i install this thing?01:08
anarcatkerio: or rather, how did *you* install this?01:08
DocScrutinizeranarcat: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/m/mbarcode/mbarcode_0.0.8-0_armel.deb01:08
DocScrutinizer@.@01:08
anarcatDocScrutinizer: i tried downloading the .deb directly, but then it failed on missing dependencies01:08
anarcatit seems absurd to try to do this by hand while i have apt-get over there01:09
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crashanddieanarcat: have you ever flashed your device?01:09
anarcatcrashanddie: no01:09
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crashanddieare you willing to give it a shot?01:09
anarcatcrashanddie: i have flashed other devices (wrt54g) before though01:09
anarcatcrashanddie: i'm not sure what that implies, and i'm not familiar with the process, so i would rather not, at this point01:09
crashanddiethen don't install devel01:10
crashanddieif it's just to install a smallish program with little dependencies, just add devel and remove it immediately after, and don't run any updates01:10
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anarcatyeah01:10
anarcatcrashanddie: i can't seem to be able to install devel01:10
keriohmm, rsync still brings down my n900 :(01:11
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crashanddiebut considering that mbarcode depends on a couple dozen other packages, you're most probably going to kill your n90001:11
anarcati copied the extras/ line from sources.d and changed extras to extras-testing (or devel, same) and that gives 404s in apt-get update01:11
anarcatcrashanddie: ah.01:11
anarcati guess that's a no no then01:11
anarcatwhen can we expect stuff in testing to hit the main tree?01:11
anarcatkerio: (and where's rsync! ;)01:11
kerioapt-get install rsync01:11
crashanddieanarcat: come in here and hope to find lardman01:11
crashanddie~seen lardman01:12
anarcatcrashanddie: awesome01:12
infobotlardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 12h 49m 56s ago, saying: 'bbl'.01:12
crashanddieor drop him an email, ask him how he runs it on his device, and what are the risks involved01:12
anarcatcool01:12
anarcati should just write him, indeed01:12
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anarcathum01:13
anarcatwhat *is* his email? :)01:13
anarcatkerio: cool, got rsync!01:13
anarcatnice01:13
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anarcatok, thanks folks, i guess i'll just wait for lardman to pop in here... can i leave him a message here somehow?01:14
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anarcator if you guys have his email, that would be nice too01:14
anarcatotherwise you can write me at @anarcat.ath.cx01:14
anarcattx01:14
crashanddieHOLY SHIT01:14
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crashanddielardman is the oldest community member, it would seem01:14
crashanddiehe was registered on maemo.org before Linux even existed!01:15
anarcat1970 :)01:15
DocScrutinizerlol01:15
nox-haha01:15
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nox-talk about unix time zero01:15
DocScrutinizer[2010-08-16 00:15:33] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on lardman (account lardman):01:15
DocScrutinizer[2010-08-16 00:15:33] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Jun 17 14:50:39 2004 (6 years, 8 weeks, 4 days, 07:24:54 ago)01:15
crashanddiethat might explain why he was always on the front page01:15
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crashanddienox-: he's powerful, he managed to make PHP's time() function return null :D01:16
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DocScrutinizernot exactly 1970, but anyway01:16
crashanddiewell, 1970-01-0101:16
nox-it that wasnt some accident he sure has some geek humor :)01:18
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lcukcrashanddie, seems like a likely reason01:19
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lcuki think its timeless thought that has badly formatted datestamps :P01:20
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lcukcrashanddie, are you running an extract from maemo.org servers?01:32
crashanddieeh?01:33
crashanddielcuk: lolwut?01:34
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lcuknoticing lardman has earlybird datestamp and that it causes null in python01:37
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crashanddielcuk: datestamp is indicated on profile page, and only considering that PHP isn't supposed to fail on something like time() or mkdate(), they probably didn't clean their database input01:42
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crashanddieor check the return codes from SQL properly01:43
crashanddieanyway, off to bed01:43
crashanddie'later all01:43
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keriowhat swappiness do you guys use?01:45
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SpeedEvildefault01:47
SpeedEvilThough I had some sort livelock today01:47
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SpeedEvilswapdeath, no ssh, would tick when pressed but not switch apps or ...01:47
keriodefault is 10001:48
kerio:/01:49
DocScrutinizernoob question: where / how would I start to add a function to specific URLs in (microb) web browser? Is there such a thing like page-specific local CSS with embedded JS, or a generic plugin format, or what else? - usecase example: add a link context menu item to each hit on google.com results page, like "wget this URL"01:49
kerioDocScrutinizer: hmm... something like greasemonkey?01:49
DocScrutinizermhm, anyway would like to keep microb, or best case browser agnostic01:50
keriogreasemonkey is a firefox extension01:51
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DocScrutinizerI know01:55
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DocScrutinizerso are you trying to say they should work with microb?01:55
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DocScrutinizerI think I'd prefer some client side JS01:56
DocScrutinizeror maybe even a proxy to modify the pages on the fly :-o01:57
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DocScrutinizerthough I'm sure there are better ways - just I'm a complete noob wrt "web programming"01:57
Nomahow easy is it to install meego in a dual boot with maemo?01:58
DocScrutinizerNoma: aiui it's quite the normal way it is done01:58
DocScrutinizerdon't quote me01:58
DocScrutinizerStskeeps should knoiw better01:59
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DocScrutinizer(not that it may, or may not, be easy to install meego at large)02:00
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Seiyai can't connect by ssh. open ssh is installed.02:01
Seiyaputty also02:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (livelock) it will sort out *eventually* :-D Just wait a few hours, and do not click to often, it will alll store up :-P02:02
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DocScrutinizerputty? I gather ssh metapkg (server and client) was installed on N900 nevertheless02:03
DocScrutinizerSeiya: simple test: ssh root@localhost02:04
DocScrutinizerfrom N900 user xterm02:04
DocScrutinizer(damn !  One of my maemo xterm windows ate my CR key... :-(  ^M still works02:05
kerio^M?02:05
keriodon't you mean ^J?02:05
nox-heh for me return is broken in less too, have to use ^j...02:05
kerioand yeah, happens to me sometimes02:05
kerioterminals suck02:06
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DocScrutinizermhm, borked here since I used less02:07
DocScrutinizerover ssh, on a remote box02:07
DocScrutinizerlocal less works great02:08
nox-ssh'd from n900 or to it?02:08
DocScrutinizerfro02:08
nox-hmm02:08
nox-i wonder if its is some terminal emulation fuckup...02:08
nox-s/its/this/02:08
infobotnox- meant: i wonder if this is some terminal emulation fuckup...02:08
kerioit is02:08
kerioterminals really suck :(02:08
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nox-at least that tells me this `xterm' isnt really using original xterm emulation code then...02:10
nox-(bc _that_ works :)02:10
DocScrutinizernokia-n900 ~> ssh my@box.no.where;  less foo; "/bar<CR>"<-borked  ; close ssh to  my@box; <CR> borked in local xterm as well02:10
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nox-and i mean xterm source code02:11
DocScrutinizer>CR> is known to be fsckdup. Some transcoding forth and back enter<->CR02:11
DocScrutinizerNK-enter02:11
DocScrutinizermaybe less soewhat messes with keymaps, and uses NK-enter in a special way02:12
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nox-i doubt that02:13
* nox- rather suspects some esc sequences get misinterpreted02:13
DocScrutinizeranyway, there's some long lingering issue with brainfsckd >CR> mapping on maemo devices02:14
* nox- pretty sure less does nothing with keymaps itself...02:14
nox-why should it02:14
DocScrutinizeron entering "YES" for ssh adding server key, it echoes "^[OM"02:15
DocScrutinizeriirc02:15
DocScrutinizermaybe ^[0M02:16
nox-yeah when i search in less and hit return by accident instead of ^j i get some esc sequence too02:16
DocScrutinizermhm, there's some key conversion in every app on N900, as N900 kbd has NK-enter only02:17
zeltakhya guys..can anyone tell me what headphones come with the n900 (got mine used and got screwed by with mismatched headphones)02:17
nox-NK == keypad?02:17
DocScrutinizernumeric keypad02:17
nox-yeah02:18
janizeltak: what sort of stuff you mean ?02:18
nox-impedance?02:18
DocScrutinizerzeltak: every 'usual' headset will work, if it's absolute standard02:18
nox-well some get distortion02:19
DocScrutinizerthe one that comes with N900 has a rather unusual flat cable02:19
janiand has 3 connection surfaces as it has mic in on it too but if you dont need the mic part, you can plug any sort of headphones into it.02:20
nox-mic?  i thought thats composite out?02:20
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DocScrutinizerNokia adhering to 'standard' as of http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf02:21
nox-anyway my theory is the headphone amp may not particularly like low impedance...02:21
nox-there are headphones with 16 ohms and there are ones with 64...02:21
nox-and other values are possible too02:22
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janiboth =)02:22
janibut the headphones that came with n900 do have a mic on the cable .. like "hands free" sort of stuff and that signal has to go in from somewhere.02:24
nox-hm ok02:24
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nox-so where does the composite out come from on the av cable?02:24
DocScrutinizermic ring02:25
DocScrutinizerdual use02:25
nox-ah ok02:25
DangerMaushmm tiny hole ont the volume switch02:25
DocScrutinizerheadphone amp is a D-type with 15R series. Should work even with 8R headphones02:25
nox-hm ok02:26
* nox- wonders where those distortions then came from02:26
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DocScrutinizerbut maybe some headphones are just too poor efficiency to give a good loud clear audio, without clipping02:26
nox-i think those particular ones came from an old ipod...02:27
DocScrutinizeror they can't take the bass that N900 is capable to drive to them02:27
nox-heh02:27
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DocScrutinizerD-type is down to 0Hz +-0dBm02:28
DangerMausthats actualy funny02:28
DocScrutinizerDangerMaus: there you are :-P02:28
DangerMausim rite her02:28
* DangerMaus waves02:28
DocScrutinizerhttp://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/02:29
DocScrutinizerDangerMaus: ^^02:29
DangerMausahh02:29
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DangerMausprob ran outta power yesterday02:30
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DocScrutinizerDangerMaus: g-meter - I doubt. Sounds more like troubled touchscreen02:31
DangerMausawww crap02:31
DangerMausleast there under 500 now02:32
DocScrutinizertouchpanel is ~60EUR02:32
DangerMauswhat? link?02:32
DocScrutinizerwithout new protector :-P02:32
DangerMausor take it to nokia?02:32
DocScrutinizer*sigh* moment please02:32
DocScrutinizertake it to nokia anyway02:32
DangerMauseeeek02:33
DangerMausnot see baby for weeks prob02:33
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900/N900-TOUCH-WINDOW-ASSY-2691V9-02:34
DangerMausthough next geuss was check touchscreen connector02:34
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DangerMausthat seems too cheep02:36
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4369_Original-Nokia-N900-A-Cover-Touchscreen.html02:36
DangerMausthoujght thats €02:36
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DocScrutinizerDangerMaus: has your 'screen' a ditch/spot/other damage?02:38
DangerMausdocscrutinizer we having issues with the touchscreeens in general or just the ones that have been dropped?02:38
DocScrutinizerdropped makes a good story for cause of such problem02:39
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DangerMausheh lol minor scratch on right edgemetal02:40
DocScrutinizerdeformed?02:40
DangerMausscreen surface is fine02:40
DangerMausno02:40
DocScrutinizer1mm is enough02:40
DangerMauschrist02:41
DangerMausno02:41
DangerMaussurface02:41
DocScrutinizerdoes it 'click' when doing unsolicited stuff? like touchscreen click?02:41
DangerMauspicture riunning sand paper or fine file across metal02:41
DangerMaussometimes02:42
DangerMauswhen i want it to do it it wont02:42
DocScrutinizerfull reflash - check - take to nokia for repair02:42
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DocScrutinizermight be warranty02:43
DangerMauscrap got it the way i want it finnaly02:43
DocScrutinizerdo a decent backup :-P02:43
DangerMausbe a year dec 1 i think02:44
DocScrutinizereurope?02:44
DangerMaususa02:44
DocScrutinizer:-/02:44
DangerMausgot a nokia store close but prob clueless02:44
DocScrutinizerbet02:44
DocScrutinizerthey'll send in02:45
DocScrutinizeranyway try it02:45
DocScrutinizerno idea how things get handled in USA02:45
DangerMaushmmm what to buy for interm?02:46
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DocScrutinizera second one ? :-D02:46
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DangerMauscould survive with somethimg  wit bt act as modem02:46
DangerMauswith  old 77002:46
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DangerMausjust started playing with pc suit and eepc ran outta battery  no charger for it withme02:48
DangerMaushaving crappy weekend02:48
DocScrutinizereeeh! pc02:49
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DangerMausthats it i cant take it anymore time to make a bootable flashdrive with gentoo min install onoit02:56
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zeltakjani: DocScrutinizer: thx i meant obviously the one with the call button and music playbacl control03:02
zeltaki got one with the n97 and wondered if the n900 ships with one as well03:03
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DocScrutinizermusic control doesn't work with N900 for all I know03:05
DocScrutinizerI tried to investigate a  bit, to find out about phy protocol they are using e.g. on N95, but wasn't able to get any meaningful results with N900 AV circuit03:06
DocScrutinizeralso probing of that N95 compatible multibutton headset I borrowed from a friend didn't yield any results that could make sense to me03:07
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zeltakgotcha..k thx DocScrutinizer03:09
DocScrutinizerso unless I get hold of either a headset schematics, or a N95 schematics, or a generic spec for that protocol - for me that's w wontfix03:09
zeltaki see03:09
zeltakthx for the info  :)03:09
DocScrutinizeryw03:10
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, did you hear the interference caused by pushing buttons on it?03:11
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DocScrutinizernuttin03:11
DocScrutinizer:-S03:11
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ShadowJKdid it work with n95?03:13
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DocScrutinizerprobing mic ring with low voltage ohm-meter gave me break/infinite on correct polarity, and a digitalish jump from some 2k to break/infinite on reverse polarity (+ on sleve/GND)03:14
DocScrutinizersore it works with N95, my friend is using it all the time03:14
DocScrutinizersure*03:14
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ShadowJKdid you yourself test it with a working device though?03:15
* ShadowJK only hears the interference when plugged into devices it works with03:15
DocScrutinizerI might throw together/solder  some extension adapter with probe contacts and see what the signals look like on N9503:15
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DocScrutinizernope, I myself never used such headset on a device it's working with03:16
ShadowJKset volume to one step above muted, the clicking dit-dt-dit-dat thing is in the background of the music03:17
DocScrutinizerbut for that adapter approach I'd either need a N95 or a storage scope, so I could do all the needed tests in <15min03:17
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that however would mean the stereo-out path is somewhat involved03:18
DocScrutinizerwhich pretty much complicates things for N900, if not making the whole issue unfeasible03:19
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DocScrutinizermy probing anyway gave no indication for direct pathes from stereo-out to mic contact03:20
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DocScrutinizerI'd guess we have a high-impedance digital one wire transmission here, over mic contact. Like when pushing a button, the headset shorts mic to GND for a period x, then waits for micbias to clock for shifting out next bit same way. Duration of period xmakes for the 1s and 0s03:23
DocScrutinizerthis however *could* be done with N90003:24
DocScrutinizerit's just I don't see how exactly it should interfere with musin on stereo-out03:24
DocScrutinizermusic*03:24
DocScrutinizeralso I of course did recording tests via headset mic, to detect such serial pulses, at least a single click when pushing a button -> nuttin03:26
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DocScrutinizermaybe I wasn't able to distinguish the digital clicks from the noise of pressing the keys inside the same case that holds the mic03:27
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DocScrutinizerif anybody was willing to investigate, and got a scope of any sort and a N9x plus such media controller headset: The adapter is pretty simple, a 3.5mm 4pole male to female wire thru 1:1, except a series 47R in mic wire. Then probe 2chan (voltage mic to gnd, 1V/div, trigger falling slope ) and (voltage across 47R, 10mV/div), DC coupled, with X=1..50ms/div, while pressing different keys03:36
DocScrutinizermake a screenshot and let me know where to watch it03:38
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lcukDocScrutinizer, if I had a scope I would play03:38
* lcuk ponders and trundles to bed03:39
DocScrutinizern8 lcuk :-D03:39
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zeltakok had it with mail for exchange...never works..does any one sync contacts with google/thunderbird/other? and if so how?03:58
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celestehzeltak: i use nueavasync04:03
celestehzeltak: http://nuevasync.com/04:04
celestehit's free, and it handles calendar stuff correctly also04:04
zeltakcool thx celesteh ill check it out now04:04
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ieatlintpeople in the US using the n900 may be interested in this: http://groups.google.com/group/tmoipv6beta?pli=1 (tmobile is running a beta test for ipv6 over their data network)04:16
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ieatlinthrm, note i was just sent that from a friend, but i am suddenly questioning the authenticity of it, as nothing seems to point back to tmobile officially that i see04:18
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DangerMauswhats up Doc?04:21
DangerMaus ooooo just figg'd that if i hold a key it shifts to the Fn key just nother way to do it04:24
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xnt14[N900]hi, in R&D mode, what do the flashing keyboard leds mean?04:35
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SpeedEvilit's CPU state04:35
SpeedEvilsuspend and idle I think04:36
xnt14[N900]SpeedEvil, which one? what does each led mean?04:36
SpeedEvilI don't recall.04:36
xnt14[N900]hmm04:36
xnt14[N900]didn't see anything on the wiki04:37
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xnt14[N900]any one else know?04:38
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic gives you the pins they connect to, you could then google the kernel.04:38
xnt14[N900]hmm04:38
xnt14[N900]SpeedEvil, k04:39
SpeedEvilIt doesn't matter.04:39
SpeedEvilThere is nothing beneficial.04:39
SpeedEvilOver using powertop04:39
SpeedEvilAnd indeed power consumption is lots worse due to the LEDs04:40
luke-jrieatlint: IPv6 is required for 4G04:40
xnt14[N900]SpeedEvil, I was just curious...04:40
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chiokay so vfat on the sd did not seem to work04:50
chior at least i can't see the music i put on it from the n90004:50
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* nox- doubts thats bc of vfat...04:52
luke-jrieatlint: I'd try it, but T-Mobile doesn't allow N900 on prepaid data ;)04:52
nox-wow04:52
* nox- has prepaid here04:52
nox-on tmobile notwork04:52
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luke-jrnox-: here = ?04:54
nox-.de04:54
luke-jri c04:56
* luke-jr wouldn't move to .de for data04:56
nox-hehe04:56
luke-jractually, I can't think of *anything* I would move to .de for04:57
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luke-jrprobably why i'm not there04:57
luke-jrlol04:57
nox-you're in u.s.?04:57
luke-jrNebraska04:59
nox-ah04:59
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* SpeedEvil pays $5/mo for 1G/mo on t-mobile prepaid data.05:12
SpeedEvil(UK though)05:12
luke-jrSpeedEvil: yeah, over here, they don't offer it at all except for Hiptop devices05:13
DocScrutinizert-mo US seems thoroughly nasty wrt plans and conditions. Well US customers even accept the idea of being charged for inbound calls05:13
DocScrutinizerand wtf are hiptop devices?05:14
nox-SpeedEvil, well thats certainly better than here...05:14
nox-bbl05:14
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: not sure, some T-Mobile custom thing?05:15
luke-jrI think it has another name now05:15
DocScrutinizerI read that as hiphop05:15
nox-iirc its a primitive tablet device05:15
DocScrutinizerwhich doesn't make it any better05:15
nox-*nod*05:16
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DocScrutinizerprobably in USA as a carrier you could tell your customers you just invented internet new, and they may get it by just paying premium05:17
DangerMaushiptop? like bend gf over use as desk?05:18
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nox-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiptop05:19
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dmj726the sad part is tmo is comparatively less nasty than certain other us carriers05:20
DangerMausooo k05:20
DangerMaustmo sofar so good05:21
DangerMausand ive places i shouldnt have service ratherdata and had it05:21
dmj726...Verizon wants to charge you to connect your laptop to your phone.05:21
DangerMausmost did or do05:22
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HiDarenhi, all05:22
dmj726Haven't had that with TMO05:22
DangerMausthis was a way around it05:22
dmj726either that or it's just the n90005:22
rm_youit *is8 hiphop, isn't it?05:23
rm_you*is*05:23
HiDarenare there any developers in here?05:23
nox-the tablet?  hiptop05:23
dmj726correction: are there *many* developers here05:23
DangerMausbellieltop here05:23
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DangerMausdj726 sometimes05:24
nox-anyway im off05:24
HiDarencorrection: are there any developers in here who can help me get started with esbox?05:24
dmj726ah05:25
dmj726what OS are you on?05:25
DangerMausoops  *05:25
HiDareni have the maemosdk virtual image set up and running....05:25
DocScrutinizerblaergh - what an ugly collection of devices :-P05:25
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ieatlintluke-jr: yeah, i signed up... although i am admittedly still skeptical as no where on that page does it reference anything official05:26
dmj726esbox does foul things on modern ubuntu05:26
ieatlintit sounds legit...05:26
ieatlintfigured the worse that happens is some spammer got my email and phone number05:27
HiDarenit is ubuntu 9.105:27
dmj7269.10 should work fine05:27
ieatlintand $5/gb for data? i'm getting hurt terribly with my unlimited data05:27
dmj726are you running it from esbox.sh?05:27
* GeneralAntilles put together a nice rant for an mwkn summary, but realized the title didn't match the link. . . .05:27
ieatlint$25/mo... completely bullshit05:27
luke-jrieatlint: normal US monthly unlimited data is $10/mo05:28
DangerMausieatlint what carrier?05:28
luke-jr$25/mo only gets you special content crap05:28
ieatlinttmobile05:28
HiDareni have the hello world app compling..  just dont know how to run it in the local emulator05:28
ieatlinthmm, let me go double check tmo's site :)05:28
dmj726well they usually try to charge smartphone users 2505:28
dmj726oh05:29
dmj726there's a button on the menu for that05:29
dmj726looks like the maemo logo05:29
DangerMaustmo says they have a like 8gig soft cat but they havent killed me yet05:29
DangerMaus*cap05:29
ieatlinti'm impressed you're using 8gb...05:29
DangerMausjust once05:30
HiDareni can run the emulator from the icon, but cannot get my app from esbox to run it05:30
luke-jr8 GB is nothing05:30
dmj726any error messages?05:30
DangerMauslaptop through phone05:30
ieatlinti'm actually getting boned by tmobile pretty bad right now.. my bill is $220/mo05:30
luke-jr56k is over 17 GB/mo05:30
dmj726wow how is it that high?05:31
DangerMausi wanna say i got 500m voice unlimited txt data somethimg else05:31
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ieatlintfamily plan with 4 lines05:32
DangerMausits like 60$05:32
DangerMausahh05:32
dmj726family plan with 4 lines on tmo should be like half that05:33
DangerMausall my hardware  though there damn sms spam is annoyimg05:33
DangerMausdmj726 they degrade prices again?05:34
dmj726you looked at the even more plus plans?05:35
DangerMausithink that me or i just +05:35
ieatlintlcuk: so i'm curious here.. you say data is just $10/mo; tmo says that's for non-smartphones, but i'm getting the impression that doesn't actually matter?05:36
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dmj726an n900 will run just fine on the $10 plan05:37
luke-jrieatlint: $25/mo includes "value services" or some crap05:37
ieatlintbah, fucking tmobile05:37
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dmj726but you might not want to show them your phone if you want the $10 rate (or show them a $10 prepaid phone that you want to convert)05:37
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DangerMausdont need other crap with this all built in chang what you want independant of carrier05:38
ieatlintdmj726: hmm, ok, i seriously need to give tmobile a car05:38
ieatlintcall05:38
ieatlintblah05:38
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dmj726keep your car :P05:39
DangerMausthey said it dont matter just dont give them the what is it eeid#? they dont need it05:40
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ieatlintyeah, i'm going to assume they're far too lazy to check the IMEIs i use05:40
DangerMausyeah that05:41
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DangerMausi jump fones sometimes it this will be in harms way theyve nvr called me on diff imei's05:42
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DangerMausatt gave my sister ogreif for that05:44
ieatlintfor changing phones?05:44
ieatlintor for using a dataplan intended for old wap-based phones on a smartphone?05:44
DangerMausyeah popping  the sim in somethimg else05:44
ieatlinttmobile i know doesn't give a fuck if you change phones every day..05:45
ieatlintthey'll even provide basic support05:45
DangerMausyep05:45
ieatlintbut they can use the IMEI to look up what model phone it is was my point05:45
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ieatlintbasically test if you're bullshitting them on the smartphone thing (not that the data usage wouldn't tell the story)05:45
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luke-jrif it comes down to it, we could start a class action lawsuit possibly05:46
luke-jror maybe just report them, I don't know05:46
DangerMauscrap i was in chicago messing with a phone without a sim not realzing it called 911 when i pushed send messimgwith it05:46
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HiDarenwhen i have to call my cell company, i just keep an old blackberry handy05:47
DangerMausput it on counter went to store found cops and fire when i got back05:47
ieatlintluke-jr: net neutrality doesn't exist on the law books :P05:47
luke-jrieatlint: device neutrality does05:47
luke-jror at least the FCC regulations05:48
ieatlintonly with regards to locks on the phone i think, not with the service05:48
luke-jrservice providers aren't allowed to discriminate between FCC-approved devices05:48
luke-jrthat is, as long as the FCC has approved it, it's allowed05:48
DangerMausbut they dont bother telling the consumer that05:49
ieatlintthat's a novel concept, but i'm afraid i'm skeptical of taking uncited legal advice from irc ;)05:49
luke-jrthat's why cable companies have to allow you to buy your own cable modem from someone else05:49
luke-jrotherwise they'd just force you to rent it from them05:49
luke-jrand they did, until someone threw the book at them05:50
luke-jralso, it isn't legal advice ☺05:50
ieatlintwell my point was that it's possible me bullshitting tmobile could result in them finding out a year from now and seeking to collect lost money... you're telling me that if they even tried to do anything, FCC regulations would protect me05:51
ieatlintsounds like legal advice05:51
TermanaN900recover lost money? that sounds like garbage05:52
luke-jrieatlint: nah, I was just suggesting a lawsuit if they get bad about it :p05:52
HiDarensounds like something they'd try though05:52
luke-jrand prepaid is prepaid ;)05:52
luke-jrthat's the whole point of it05:52
DangerMausit just works05:53
HiDareni got a bill from my bell because they said i was using teathering but it was just my n900 :)05:53
luke-jrwait, you're not using prepaid, nm05:53
ieatlinti'll somehow bet the prepaid user agreement says you may be liable for additional charges05:53
HiDarenthey backbilled for 6 months05:53
DangerMauseasy no credi dept to pay05:53
ieatlintyeah, i'm on postpaid05:53
HiDarenbut they also fixed it after 6 or 7 phone calls05:53
TermanaN900sometimes im wish i was a US citizen. And then i remember this crap, and am thankful im an Australia citizen.05:53
TermanaN900I wish*05:54
luke-jrieatlint: how would that work, seeing as T-Mobile doesn't even have my name or address?05:54
luke-jrHiDaren: technically speaking, N900 *is* tethered05:54
ieatlintluke-jr: well, some people register that with tmo.. :P05:54
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ieatlintbut yeah, there's no way you could ever do anywhere near enough damage to make it worth tracking you down05:54
HiDarenluke: heh heh05:54
ieatlintif they can't simply send you an invoice and then forward it to a collections agency, they won't bother to touch you05:55
luke-jrieatlint: before I setup data, I used DNS tunnelling to bypass their walled garden05:55
DangerMauswhere your bill go auto-pay?05:55
luke-jrrather than even call my cell, they just blocked my endpoint -.-05:55
ieatlintthat's low man.. that shit is slow :P05:55
ieatlintand data is already high latency05:55
luke-jrlol05:55
luke-jrit was just for fun05:55
luke-jrbut now I can't lookup my domain ☹05:56
ieatlintlol05:56
luke-jrieatlint: wanna try for me from another state? :P05:56
luke-jrhttp://dashjr.org05:56
luke-jr(I know you're in another state cuz T-Mobile claims they have no service in Nebraksa…)05:56
ieatlintas in do a dns lookup?05:56
luke-jrieatlint: yeah05:56
luke-jrsee if they blocked it nationally or just regionally05:56
ieatlintdashjr.org has address 173.242.112.53 dashjr.org has IPv6 address 2001:470:88ff:2e::105:57
ieatlintand 3 mx records05:57
luke-jrcool05:57
ieatlintoh, wait05:57
luke-jrthat was via T-Mo, right?05:57
ieatlintyou mean on the phone05:57
luke-jr…duh05:57
ieatlinthehe, one sec05:57
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ieatlintyeah, the ipv4 A record came up over edge05:57
luke-jrcool05:57
luke-jrgood to know I didn't disrupt my site in any meaningful way05:58
luke-jrsince T-Mo won't sell to NE, nobody will be affected XD05:58
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ieatlintyou may want to lock down your dns server more :P05:58
* luke-jr had a friend in Kansas City mail him a SIM card05:58
luke-jrieatlint: why?05:58
ieatlintthat is, if you care that i can dump your entire confirguation for that domain05:58
luke-jrso?05:58
luke-jrit's all public info anyway05:59
luke-jrthat's what DNS is for05:59
* ieatlint shrugs05:59
ieatlintsome people care about keeping subdomains more private05:59
DangerMausyepyep05:59
* luke-jr notes he publishes his lat/lon in DNS :P06:00
DangerMaushehe06:00
luke-jractually, I should have my N900 publish its lat/lon in DNS too…06:00
luke-jror not06:00
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luke-jrthat'd be too easily abuse06:00
luke-jrd06:00
DangerMaushmmm driving through omaha next aug06:01
ieatlintthat sounds exciting06:01
DangerMausbeytter than n.dekota06:02
ieatlinthaha, ok, maybe06:02
ieatlintalso better than utah i guess06:02
DangerMausor  iowa06:02
ieatlinti have friends from iowa that strongly insist that des moines has some nice bars and iowa city isn't bad06:03
DangerMausmontana ok once you hit the mountains06:03
DangerMausames is borimg06:03
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luke-jrDangerMaus: well good luck w/ that06:06
luke-jrI now understand *why* T-Mobile says they have no service here06:06
luke-jrit's very spotty06:06
DangerMaushehe06:06
DangerMausi had service in northhern WI where they said they had none06:06
luke-jr(and I think Verizon owns the tower)06:07
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DangerMaushad to climb a tree here and there06:07
DangerMausridge and vallley problems06:08
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DangerMausand popped up on att now and then06:09
luke-jryour T-Mo SIM will roam on AT&T?06:09
luke-jrmine won't connect06:09
dmj726mine will roam on att (at least in Michigan)06:10
DangerMausheh mine did06:10
DangerMaushad to give it permission the first time06:10
DangerMausgot data too06:11
luke-jrmine won't even login on 3G06:11
luke-jror connect or whatever 3G does06:11
DangerMausit wasnt 3g  like 2.506:12
luke-jrwell, 2G then06:12
luke-jrwhatever06:12
DangerMausenough for maps06:12
DangerMausand to pick up 20 txt in waiting06:13
ieatlintatt 3g is incompatible with tmo 3g..06:13
luke-jryes, I mean 2G06:13
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ieatlintroaming between att and tmo on 2g is possible, but only in specific regions where pre-existing roaming agreements are in place06:13
dmj726yeah, att was 2.5g but at least worked06:14
DangerMausat home i get  3.5 but then not in the rich areas06:14
ieatlinti'm still waiting for tmobile to drop hspda+ here :(06:14
luke-jrieatlint: be glad you have anything06:14
DangerMausheh06:15
ieatlintwell, i live in a city with notoriously spotty cell coverage06:15
luke-jrsomeone should start a new cell company where all the customers run towers06:15
ieatlintlots of hills + density + people fighting new towers because it'll give them cancer or some bullshit06:15
luke-jrthen to get coverage over a new city you just need to find 10 well-located friends06:15
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DangerMauswhere i work i love beimg able to find an open wifi and use skype06:16
luke-jrSkype ftl06:16
xae8kooI can't wait! 2 houres and 45 minutes untill I can call my insurance company and tell them I NEED an Nokia N900 rigth NOW!06:16
luke-jrxae8koo: …?06:16
xae8kooI want a N900 SOO bad!06:17
luke-jrwhy06:17
luke-jrand wtf does your insurance company have to do with it?06:17
DangerMausback to the old relay like systems...06:17
ieatlintdon't worry, your enthusiasm for the phone will drop once you try to use it :P06:17
luke-jrhaha06:18
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xae8koooI am xae8koo06:18
xae8koooMy terminal disseapered06:19
DangerMausxae8koo he's just a grouch06:19
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xae8koooI am currently using a Sony ericson z610i06:19
xae8koooIt is embarrasing!06:19
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DangerMausthis is stsrting to suck only got this as of yesterday when lappie ran outta battery left my glasses at home06:21
DangerMauswith the chargers06:21
DangerMausatleast the tv has a usb port06:22
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TermanaN900luke-jr, or 10 well-located churches and flag poles06:24
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luke-jrTermanaN900: …06:24
luke-jrno connectivity w/o power and internet :P06:24
DangerMausgot another lappie with no connectivity and w2k so no pc suit for that06:26
xae8kooEnhanced Linux kernel for power users v2.6.28-maemo37, is it any good?06:26
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DangerMausno cd drive either... cant find a flash drive to put a live cd on to boot it install linux just sol here luke-jr06:27
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luke-jrxae8koo: sure06:42
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DocScrutinizerfor üpwer users... ummpff06:52
DocScrutinizerpower*06:52
luke-jrrequired for normal use though :P06:53
luke-jrsome idiot left IPv6 out of the default kernel06:53
DocScrutinizerI'm NO power user, I'm a nooooooob06:53
DocScrutinizer:-P06:53
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DocScrutinizermaybe I become less noobish when I install kernel for power users?06:54
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: nope, you're a n00b for life06:56
DocScrutinizerxae8koo: if you don't know exactly why you *need* another kernel, keep the stock one. A non-standard kernel will give you trouble for sure - not worth if you don't have clearly defined benefit from it to balance the trouble06:58
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: mhm, yep07:30
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xnt14[N900]Whats the password on Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf?07:33
xnt14[N900]anyone?07:36
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xnt14[N900]hmm07:40
* xnt14[N900] pokes someone at random and asks them the bloddy password on the schematics pdf :P07:41
xnt14[N900]*bloody07:41
fluxxnt14[n900], googled a bit and found this quote: "those friggin schematics.pdf was fine on evince on my desktop. N900 says "need password" - wtf?"07:44
luke-jrjust disable DRM on your PDF reader? :P07:44
xnt14[N900]flux, hmm, ah :P07:45
xnt14[N900]luke-jr, cmd for N900's pdf reader?07:45
luke-jrnfc07:45
* xnt14[N900] stabs his N900 with its stylus07:45
xnt14[N900]don't have my N810 handy for rading the schematics...07:46
xnt14[N900]**reading07:47
xnt14[N900]my hands hurt from this keyboard... , thats a really embarassing typo :P07:48
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luke-jrxnt14[N900]: N810 would probably do DRM too07:52
xnt14[N900]luke-jr, -_-07:53
xnt14[N900]installing evince atm :)07:53
xnt14[N900]but evince probably isn't hildonized, so it'll kill my eyes :P07:53
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DocScrutinizerxnt14[N900]: use a *decent* pdf viewer, and forget about fsckng password :-P07:57
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xnt14[N900]DocScrutinizer, just installed evince, it works but it hurts my eyes07:58
DocScrutinizerevince is pretty ok, and it works with schematics :-D07:58
xnt14[N900]DocScrutinizer, whats better than evince?07:59
DocScrutinizerno idea07:59
xnt14[N900]hehe07:59
xnt14[N900]hmm07:59
DocScrutinizerI found evince ok for my needs07:59
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* xnt14[N900] looks for a way to make evince not hurt his eyes07:59
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DocScrutinizerwhat's wrong with evince?08:00
DocScrutinizermoo lcuk08:00
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DocScrutinizerlcukn900 even08:00
xnt14[N900]DocScrutinizer, evince + N900 = harming eyes08:01
DocScrutinizerwhy?08:01
xnt14[N900]cant read pin #s on the schematic08:02
xnt14[N900]text too tiny08:02
DocScrutinizerhmm08:02
DocScrutinizerzoom in then08:02
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xnt14[N900]yes, but then: 1) scrolling is too bouncy, 2) I hate scrolling :P08:03
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* xnt14[N900] gives up and goes to sleep08:06
xnt14[N900]night08:06
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HiDarenanyone know how to get DNS to work in the xephyr scratchbox?08:13
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fluxhidaren, take a look at scratchbox /etc/resolv.conf?08:37
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HiDarenflux: i think i fixed that.. but still no go08:43
HiDarenand i looked at my nsswitch.conf and it seems okay too08:43
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mecemornin09:20
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rmrfchikaloha10:08
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DangerMausdocscrutinizer u around? i was wondering if having a fairly strong magnet near the device would send if whacky?10:30
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crashanddieDangerMaus: no, the only thing it does is unlock it10:44
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Khertan_Hi all !10:48
crashanddiehi Khertan_! Howzit?10:49
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Khertan_Brain is not working well :)10:49
crashanddiePraat jij nie Afrikaans nie?10:49
crashanddieJust joking :P10:50
Khertan_the left part doesn't seems to communicate with the right part10:50
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Khertan_and you ?10:50
crashanddieyeah, good, second week working :)10:50
Khertan_did you find any interesting jobs ?10:50
crashanddieyeah, I'm a C++ dev now10:50
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Khertan_malloc ... dealloc ... malloc ... segfault10:51
Khertan_arf :10:51
Khertan_!10:51
crashanddieC++, not C10:51
crashanddieso more like new and delete :P10:51
Khertan_:)10:51
crashanddiebut yeah, segfault about 10 seconds quicker than C :P10:51
crashanddiebbl10:52
Khertan_Someone know how to open network connection in qt on maemo if noone exits ?10:52
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pupnik_"Nvidia says no to Linux on Tegra netbooks, chooses WinCE"  <<<--- Mike Rayfield  http://www.facebook.com/mrayfield10:54
pupnik_insert appropriate Bill Hicks quote here10:54
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JaffaMorning, all11:26
timelesshi11:26
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pupnik_really just need a serial port and the model 102 would be fine for a lot of things11:27
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Khertan_morning Jaffa timeless and pupnik_11:34
* timeless sighs11:35
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timeless"ooh cool; ooh, uncool, idiots!"11:35
Khertan_Someone know how to open network connection in qt on maemo if noone is open ?11:35
pupnik_good old Khertan_ ... cheers11:35
Khertan_:)11:35
timelessi just saw an icon near my bt indicator11:35
timelessand realized how stupid it was :(11:35
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keriowhat icon?11:36
Khertan_Hi x-fade :)11:36
timelessthe headset icon11:36
keriois there a connection manager widget?11:36
keriotimeless: why is that stupid?11:36
timelesskerio: why?11:36
timelesskerio: lemme get a picture11:36
X-Fadehi Khertan_11:37
keriotimeless! you have access to the nokia hq, right?11:38
keriorelease all the source code to wikileaks!11:38
Khertan_lol11:38
timelesshrm11:38
timelesshq = espoo?11:38
timelessthat costs too much11:38
timelessi'd have to take a bus11:39
timelessor a taxi11:39
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Khertan_in french we usually reply : tu veux pas 100 balles et un mars ?11:39
Khertan_:)11:39
keriotimeless: not that kind of access, silly11:39
Stskeepskerio: why would you want people's eyes to bleed11:39
kerioremote access11:39
timelessbesides, the info nokia has would bore people out of their skulls, i'd be charged w/ murder11:39
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keriohack n crack n shit11:39
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keriotimeless: nah, i'd just like a git blame src/bme/main.c11:40
timelessthis session doesn't actually have access to the nokia network fwiw11:40
timelesshasn't someone already come forward to take blame for bme?11:40
* timeless thought someone did11:40
kerioor maybe some comment that can explain *WHY*11:40
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timeless"because we were told to"11:40
timeless"because we had to"11:41
timeless"because we were in a hurry"11:41
timeless"because someone requried it"11:41
timelesspick one or more of the above?11:41
DuckBoot"There is no bme"11:41
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* timeless hands duckboot a spoon11:41
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keriothe right way takes less time, works better and has no drawbacks ._.11:42
timelessyou must be new here =b11:42
keriothat's what everybody tells me11:42
keriobut they do nothing to change the situation11:43
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kerioso please shut up while i surround myself with happy thoughts and candy11:43
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kerio*omnomnom*11:43
* timeless hands out some rose colored glasses11:43
DuckBootUuuh - Shinies11:43
pupnik_nokia has made many happy thoughts and candy with 770, 800, 810 and 90011:44
keriotimeless: hmm, can they fit over my own glasses?11:44
* timeless gives pupnik 3 'n's11:44
timelesskerio: sure11:44
keriopupnik_: bme11:44
pupnik_timeless: why does android have momentum, while maemo did not11:44
keriotimeless: awesome!11:45
* pupnik_ tries to understand11:45
timelesshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ8mlC3mWW411:45
fralsbecause maemo isnt on any massmarket phones.. i assume11:45
timelesspupnik: because google understands marketing?11:45
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kerio/dcc timeless get glasses/rose.gls11:45
timelessand google created a platform which is offered to other hardware vendors11:46
timelessgoogle basically agreed to do most of the software dev11:46
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timelessand provide marketing11:46
timelessleaving the vendors w/ just the task of deploying to hardware11:46
timelessthe alternative stacks were symbian and winmo11:47
Khertan_timeless: and creating the hardware :)11:47
timelesssymbian spent 2 years being "opened" which meant it was frozen11:47
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timelessand winmo keeps getting iced and rebooted anyway11:47
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nid0Khertan_: creating the hardware *is* the easy part for hardware companies11:47
timelessnid0++11:47
Khertan_nid0: true :)11:47
nid0its the software to go with it thats always been hassle, and is the hassle google took away11:47
Khertan_nid0: but many still fail to create good hw11:48
timelesss/its/it's/11:48
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timelesskhertan: "easy" is relative11:48
timelessbesides nid0 didn't say anything about creating good hardware :)11:50
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timelessit takes time to create anything11:50
Khertan_True11:50
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timelessit takes longer to create software, even bad software. sometimes, especially bad software and, especially, bad software11:50
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mecethat's why I'm so slow.11:52
mecehey Khertan_, are you back in extras repos?11:52
meceI saw an update for pypackager11:53
Khertan_mece: yep11:53
Khertan_ask to X-Fade how i'm currently bothering him :)11:54
meceKhertan_, that's nice to hear.11:54
Khertan_mece: i got too many report from user not using the last version of my software11:54
meceis keditor (or whatever it's called) in working condition?11:54
Khertan_and as i didn't found a way to turn arround the Application manager problem11:54
Khertan_mece: depends on what you call working condition ...11:55
Khertan_mece: it was working well except the whitespaceremover plugin which was fixed this morning11:55
meceKhertan_, well I use pygtkeditor now, would you recommend going to keditor already?11:55
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meceI see. ok then.11:55
Khertan_mece: currently khteditor just do syntax hilight for python11:56
Khertan_and isn't packaged11:56
mecethat's ok. I only do python on device11:56
meceoh :)11:56
meceis it faster than pygtkeditor? for scrolling and such?11:56
Khertan_mece: but if you want to try it on your device ... you can use the setup.py script11:56
Khertan_is it faster than pygtkeditor <<< clearly !11:57
meceok cool.11:57
mecewilll do.11:57
mecewhere can I find it?11:57
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Khertan_mece: i ve abandon pygtkeditor for my own use in favor of kht :)11:57
Khertan_http://gitorious.org/khteditor11:57
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Khertan_setup.py didn't bother dependancy11:58
Khertan_so install manually pyqt4 binding before11:58
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meceKhertan_, well I'm already working on pyqt stuff som that's all good. Thanks11:59
Khertan_mece: there is a button in the toolbar without any icon ... if you click on it ... it ll fill your code comment containing the result of a pylint parse :)12:00
Khertan_but i warn you that the pylint plugin is still experimental12:00
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meceoki12:01
Khertan_http://khertan.net/khteditor12:01
Khertan_and bug tracker : http://khertan.net/khteditor:bugs12:01
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Khertan_the bugs tracker has just been created12:01
Khertan_:)12:01
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Khertan_the bug tracker is experimental too12:02
Khertan_it s plugin for dokuwiki created recently12:02
Khertan_:)12:02
keriobecause reinventing the wheel is awesome12:02
mecegood stuff. I'll just clone so I can pull updates later.12:02
keriofuck Trac12:02
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Khertan_kerio: i'm not reinventing the wheel ... as there was no bug tracker for dokuwiki12:03
Khertan_kerio: and trac doesn't feed my need12:03
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kerioyou're reinventing a differently-sized wheel :)12:04
Khertan_mece: yep you are welcome to clone it, and do not hesitate to submit suggestions, idea, bug fixes !12:05
meceKhertan_, well, if I come across something. I have a ton of projects and very little time, so don't hold your breath though ;)12:06
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Khertan_mece: no soucy12:06
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mecesetup needs setuptools?12:07
Khertan_mece: did you know how to open a connection if none is open in a pyqt program ?12:07
Khertan_mece: hum ... i think12:07
Khertan_mece: or at least distutils12:07
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Khertan_but it s available on n90012:08
Khertan_as this is the way i install it :)12:08
mecehm Khertan_, no I haven't done it, but Of the top of my head it's in.. http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/qnetworkrequest.html or something around that.12:09
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meceI usually just use the regular qt references when doing pyqt12:10
Khertan_i do the same12:11
jogafunny thing...at my friend's, my n900 battery lasts a lot less than elsewhere, it showed about 50% when I went to sleep here, and when I woke up it was dead :) nothing happening in the background either and saw no usage during the night12:11
SpeedEvil'saw no usage' = how12:11
mecedo you use their wlan?12:11
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SpeedEviloh - right12:11
keriowlan with crappy router with no PSM?12:12
jogayes I use wlan here, but I do at home too without problem12:12
keriocronjob?12:12
jogabut it also does that without wlan12:12
Khertan_mece: but QNetworkResquest just do a request and but i do my request thought urllib2 and just want to open the connection12:12
SpeedEvilwlan without powersave working wll last several hours. wlan with powersave working lasts sreveral days12:12
jogaI only remembered she had a wlan last week12:12
jogabut good point still12:13
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nid0could just be some random snafu unrelated to location, I had that happen to me once at home12:13
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SpeedEvilpathalogical recamping can do that too12:13
mecelol12:14
nid0went to bed with the battery on like 80%, woke up to find the device had died in the middle of the night, for no reason at like 1am the battery power according to battery-eye just dropped like a stone12:14
jogaguess I'll have to get another charger here ;)12:14
meceKhertan_, ok yeah but urllib2 doesn't ask the phone to connect iirc, it just goes "damn, nothing" and gives up.12:14
keriomece: there's a dbus command to make the connection window come up12:15
Khertan_kerio: did you know it ?12:17
keriono12:17
kerionot sure how maemo apps do it12:18
keriousing the tablet connection manager maybe12:18
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meceabill_uk is at it again :D12:46
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Khertan_mece: on whine.maemo.org ?12:50
pupnik_i think the nokia tablets were a bit ahead of their time12:51
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stondaabill's agenda seems a bit unclear for me (besides all the whine regarding support, support and support)12:52
meceKhertan_, yep. It's very entertaining.12:52
Khertan_or not ... this is one of the reason i didn't read t.m.o anymore12:53
Khertan_i read one or two post by month12:53
Khertan_not more12:53
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Khertan_https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-August/026580.html12:59
Khertan_oups12:59
timelessoh right12:59
timelesshttp://konigsberg.mozilla.org/headset.png12:59
timelesssomeone was asking why i didn't like the icon13:00
timelesstake a look at the icon13:00
timelesshow many people here have headsets where one headphone is half as tall as the other?!13:00
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MiXu-:)13:00
Khertan_timeless: yeah it s stupid ... they should expand the status bar by 20 just for displaying the icon :)13:01
Khertan_s/20/20 pixel13:01
timeless--13:02
CorsacI have no problem recognizing a microphone though :)13:02
timelessAn HTTP error 0 occured.13:02
Khertan_?13:03
Khertan_i use webchat :)13:03
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mecepupnik, what's this now?13:03
pupnik_what what13:05
timeless/comments/anon_vote/comment/598166/1/113:05
pupnik_a present mece13:05
pupnik_respect13:05
Khertan_bbl13:05
timelesskhertan: nah, they just need to use a different size for things...13:05
MohammadAG51who's attending the conference?13:06
timeless??13:07
MohammadAG51MeeGo conference13:07
X-FadeMohammadAG51: http://conference2010.meego.com/attendees  :)13:08
jani-worktrying my best to get someone else to pay for it - if that happens, i'll be there.13:08
MohammadAG51X-Fade, ty, thought the list was private13:08
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kerioi still don't get why rsync hogs cpu and ram this way13:16
keriois there a cheaper check that i can set?13:16
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Khertan_Personnaly i don't think i ll come to the summit13:20
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lcukKhertan_, conference, its a conference :p13:20
fralshmm13:21
lcukhey frals, back at your house now?13:21
Khertan_lcuk: same13:21
Khertan_lcuk: http://maemo.org/packages/view/khweeteur/13:23
fralslcuk: yeah back in .fi now, got in this morning13:23
lcukcool13:23
fralslcuk: me and a billion mosquito bites13:23
lcuko_O13:23
lcukI took jake for a walk yesterday13:23
lcukand he was good as gold13:24
fralsitching all over.. great combination with being up since 0400 :D13:24
lcukbut when I got back I realised we had walked 5k13:24
fralshehe13:24
iliushow do i start a local proxy in N900?13:24
lcukilius, you mean a proxy thats usable by other machines on your network?13:24
iliuslike toonel or yourfreedom.net13:24
lcukor configure the proxy setting on your default connection?13:24
iliuslcuk: no just for use in my device13:25
lcukilius, afaik, you can set the proxy from the connection settings dialog13:25
iliuslcuk: no i know that13:25
iliusasuming that i haven't a vpn or a personal proxy server13:26
iliusi want to start a local proxy sever13:26
ilius*server13:26
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fralsilius: same way you do on debian then, more or less ;)13:27
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Khertan_http://khertan.net/khweeteur13:31
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lcukholy crap13:37
lcukWe just uploaded livewallpaper 0.8 and xscreensaver to extras-devel.13:37
lcukPlease test it.13:37
lcukImportant! Please reboot your device after update.13:37
lcukWe need community help.13:37
lcukXscreensaver has 124 themes.13:37
Khertan_lol ... lcuk the microsoft dev ! update require a reboot !13:39
Khertan_huhu13:39
lcukKhertan_, no, this is live wallpaper from vlad http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45728&page=3613:39
Khertan_no excuse13:39
Khertan_:=)13:40
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jacekowskiis livewallpaper still slowish?13:40
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MohammadAG51not as slow as before13:41
MohammadAG51not 60fps13:41
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BCMM_lcuk: theme as in xscreensaver "hack", right?13:44
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lcukBCMM_, xscreensaver is just x11 instructions to draw onto the screen at screensaver time, those appear to have just been redirected inside13:44
lcukso its not a "hack" as suh13:44
lcuksuch13:45
BCMM_lcuk: uh, xscreensaver screensavers are called "xscreensaver hacks"13:45
BCMM_aren't they?13:45
lcukwell then yes! :p13:45
lcuki dunno13:45
BCMM_anyway, by "theme", you mean "screensaver"?13:45
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lcukyes13:46
BCMM_also, what does livewallpaper do? can it show xscreensaver hacks on the desktop?13:46
lcukBCMM_, yes13:47
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=787001#post78700113:47
lcukvideo here13:47
BCMM_oh, neat13:47
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BCMM_does livescreensaver use CPU time when the display is locked or the desktop is not visible?13:50
lcukBCMM_, undetermined at the moment, its work in progress and vlad knows this requirement13:50
lcukhence it not being at 1.0 yet :)13:51
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alteregoI think we need a wiki page to clear up all this crap about maemo5 maemo6 harmattan and MeeGo13:53
alteregoIt's getting really annoying the noise of people getting it wrong, which just makes more people believe the wrong statements.13:53
alteregoIt's like chinese whispers or something.13:54
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c3l_alterego, I'd read that page! I've been trying to find info about that but there's nothing good out there13:58
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alteregounabill_uk ...14:05
* alterego chuckles14:05
alteregoI'm a bad man.14:05
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IcanCUhow well does a-gps work on the n900?14:12
IcanCUas well as on other nokia devices?14:12
alteregoIcanCU: depends on who you ask, it works very well for me.14:12
IcanCUi see14:12
IcanCUive been using nokia's some time now14:13
IcanCUbut no maemo14:13
IcanCUnone of my nokia's seemed to have a clue about where they were14:13
alteregoI'm pretty much certain to get a lock within 10-30 seconds, depending on the environment.14:13
IcanCUuntil they got a proper gps fix14:13
IcanCUfor me its always like 1 minutes or so14:13
alteregoInteresting, AGPS worked fine for me on the N9614:13
IcanCUi mean 15 minutes14:13
alteregoThough the N96 bis probably the worst Nokia I've had ;)14:13
alteregoIcanCU: 15 minutes is somewhat ridiculous, were you inside?14:14
IcanCUin  a car14:14
IcanCUalso a gps doesn't seem to help at all14:14
SpeedEvilsome cars have GPS opaque windows14:14
IcanCUbut when i open google maps14:14
IcanCUit knows where i am immediately14:14
IcanCUeven with gps turned off14:15
alteregoIt's much harder to get a lock when you're moving relatively fast (i.e. car)14:15
MohammadAG51IP14:15
achipaX-Fade: ping14:15
alteregoTrick is to get a lock before you set off, stick your handset on the car roof for a minute or two before you leave.14:15
IcanCUok14:15
MohammadAG51or strap it on the roof and vnc into it14:15
alteregoMohammadAG51: :)14:15
MohammadAG51:P14:15
X-Fadeachipa: pong14:16
IcanCUhow come nokia maps don't know where i am.. not even in what country14:16
alteregoYou could mount it near the rear and use the camera as a rear  view too ;)14:16
IcanCUwithout gps14:16
MohammadAG51it doesn't use IPs?14:16
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alteregoI wonder how much lower the N900 will go14:16
achipaX-Fade: if we have, say, a package that is specifically for <PR1.2, can that be somehow promoted to the old repos ?14:16
X-FadeNo.14:17
IcanCUthe N900 hasn't dropped in price in holland since launch14:17
X-FadeNot until we use OBS for repo creation.14:17
achipaX-Fade: ah well14:17
IcanCUits still 499 in most strores14:17
alterego.uk it's come down quite a bit.14:18
X-Fadeachipa: It would require a lot of work to get it done properly at least.14:18
alteregoYou can also get  it on PAYG plans now for half it's price on nokia.com originally ..14:18
SwedeMikeIcanCU: buy it from germany?14:18
achipaX-Fade: ok, it's not a critical package so I'll just suggest keeping it in extras-devel and have it properly advertise PR version in the title14:18
alteregoachipa: why are you back supporting anyway?14:19
alteregoachipa: also, maybe make the depends field explicitly depend on the version of the maemo release you're targetting, that will make it hard for anyone else to install it.14:19
achipaalterego: not me, somebody submitted a package to QA pre-1.214:19
IcanCUi'm thinking about getting a N900 as a small home computer14:20
IcanCUfor skype and to control my media center14:20
achipaalterego: that don't work, the appmanager won't let you do that14:20
MohammadAG51why14:20
alteregoEh, are you sure?14:20
achipaX-Fade: the other issue... have you seen that libsdl-2.0-0 thingy ?14:20
alteregobbiam14:20
achipaalterego: absolutely. It's a safeguard so packages would not block OTA14:21
achipaalterego: I experienced it firsthand with tweakflashver - when I wanted to depend on the exact package of flash... BAM - policy violation14:21
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X-Fadeachipa: sdl is a pain :(14:22
achipaX-Fade: I'm talking packaging mainly, why are they pushing pointless updates into extras when it's Nokia repo material anyway ?14:22
X-Fadeachipa: which package?14:23
achipaX-Fade:  <achipa> X-Fade: the other issue... have you seen that libsdl-2.0-0 thingy ?14:23
X-Fadeachipa: I don't see that being updated in extras?14:24
achipaX-Fade: for example http://maemo.org/packages/view/libsdl-ttf2.0-0/14:24
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X-Fadeachipa: Well that is not nokia pushing it ;)14:25
achipaX-Fade: okay, indt then, you nitpick :P14:25
IcanCU are n900 users more like to go on irc?14:25
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X-Fadeachipa: Well libsdl-ttf2.0 is a nokia package. -0 is a safe repacement?14:26
lcukmorning ka \o14:26
achipaX-Fade: err... no14:26
KAlcuk: o/14:26
X-Fadeachipa: different name to bypass domain restrictions?14:27
achipaX-Fade: it the same we-started-in-extras-but-moved-to-nokia-repo-without-telling story14:27
X-Fadeachipa: For the ttf case we had it on device, but not in the sdk repo. This was fixed in some release.14:28
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X-Fadeachipa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1045014:29
povbotBug 10450: libsdl-ttf2.0 missing from device repositories14:29
achipaX-Fade: the problem is there is no chance the app manager (or even apr-get) will pick up the last one in extras-devel and replace the old one from extras properly14:29
keriothat's why you don't use SSU14:29
kerioyou reflash!1!1!114:29
X-Fadeachipa: The one in extras was there because people couldn't build ttf based apps.14:29
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KAlcuk: working now, my local config problem.14:30
KAuploaded14:30
lcukheh always the way \o/14:30
lcukbonus14:30
lcukso which package is that?14:30
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_berto_will we do this too on maemo's birthday? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=59239214:31
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KAlcuk: spatialite for the moment, then mapbuddy 0.414:31
achipaX-Fade: I'm reading the bug rept, but the problem is the same - that transitional package is only in extras-devel and will have a hard time reaching end-users who already have a previous version installed14:32
achipaX-Fade: and then if a newer package comes along that depends directly on the one in the nokia repo, poof14:32
X-Fadeachipa: No that works.14:32
lcuk_berto_, lol yes, of course we will stop iceweasel from working for a day :P14:32
keriothe package was libsdl-mixer1.214:33
X-Fadeachipa: As that is the one on device.14:33
kerioheld back by mp-fremantle-generic-pr14:33
_berto_lcuk: LOL14:33
X-Fadeachipa: Anyway, things like this really make it obvious that we need to switch to OBS asap ;)14:34
achipaX-Fade: what am I doing wrong, then: http://pastebin.com/7FGcFMph14:34
X-Fadeachipa: As then the entire repo just rebuilds automatically if something changes.14:34
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achipa(note that I already had the old libsdl-ttf-2.0-0, via brainparty/fheroes2/enigma)14:36
X-Fadeachipa: I guess it comes from this: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/python-pygame/1.9.1release-0maemo1/14:38
achipaX-Fade: the point is, it's not exactly good if you can install an app only depending on what other apps have you installed previously :) In other words, why not add provides/replaces/conflicts to the nokia package and kill it altogether from extras ?14:40
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X-Fadeachipa: Have you seen glaciers move?14:41
X-Fadeachipa: Same thing there.14:41
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achipaX-Fade: I have packaged apps through an SSH X tunnel to a machine running VMWare, which had an ubuntu image containing scratchbox for diablo. Does that count ?14:43
DuckBootX-Fade: I have seen glaciers move, and when the right conditions are in place, they move pretty fast.14:44
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achipaX-Fade: so what do we do with QA ? Say 'hey, pykake works, but only if you have not previously installed brainparty' ? Shrug ?14:45
X-Fadeachipa: Whell no SSU will ever work when you have brainparty installed.14:46
X-Fadeor any gles1 app for that matter.14:46
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achipaX-Fade: ok, enigma then :)14:47
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X-Fadeachipa: I would reopen the bug and see what can be done if I were you.14:48
achipaX-Fade: aye14:48
X-Fadeachipa: I can remove the package from Extras, but that doesn't solve much?14:48
achipaX-Fade: it would if the nokia one had the provides clause :) :(14:50
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Khertan_http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/oracle-sues-google-over-use-of-java-in-android-sdk.ars14:53
Khertan_ouch14:54
achipaKhertan_: ju$t bu$ine$$ a$ u$ual, nothing to $ee14:55
jacekowskii really hope oracle will win this one14:57
jacekowskiand then they will not license java to google14:57
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Khertan_i hope too  ... and they noone will use java anymore ... and Python could rule the world ! (Pinky and the brain background sound)14:58
DuckBootjacekowski: They will probs agree on Google paying <shitloads>$ to Oracle, and then business will be as usual.14:58
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jacekowskii hope they will not14:59
jacekowskiand that we there will be no more shitdroid15:00
MohammadAGanyone got any ideas how to install reprepro without root access?15:00
DuckBootjacekowski: Way too much money invested in Android, so google will pay _alot_ to see that it will not be discontinued.15:00
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achipaDuckBoot: that is the point - they dont want it dead, they want to milk it15:01
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DuckBootMohammadAG: --force-not-root15:02
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DuckBootMohammadAG: Option for dpkg15:02
MohammadAGseriously?15:02
MohammadAGdpkg: operation requires read/write access to dpkg status area15:03
DuckBootMohammadAG: and use --instdir=dir to put somwhere you have write-access15:03
MohammadAGhmm15:03
DuckBootMohammadAG: And --admindir=dir15:04
DuckBootMohammadAG: To fake /var/lib/dpkg15:04
DuckBoot;-P15:04
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Khertan_Youhou !!! My favorite game is now free : http://ioquake3.org/2010/08/12/welcome-wolfenstein-enemy-territory-and-return-to-castle-wolfenstein/15:06
Khertan_at least the engine15:06
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Corsacyeah :)15:07
kerioenemy territory was always free, wasn't it?15:07
Corsacfree as in beer15:07
keriooh, now it's been opensourced?15:07
Corsacyes15:07
keriobig deal15:07
kerioold game15:07
koala_manalley cat is an old game. this is still relevant15:08
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keriotimeless: you're a mac user, right? do you use itunes?15:08
lcukchess is an old game15:08
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keriolcuk: sorry, i'll get off your lawn now15:09
lcukif you were on my lawn you would already be shot15:09
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MohammadAGlcuk, auto machine gun?15:13
kerioHEAVYMASCHINEGUN!15:14
kerioRAWKET LAWNCHAIR15:14
Khertan_100 people registered at Meego Conf in less than a week ... are they hoping a free device ? :)15:15
* alterego burps, in your face!15:16
MohammadAG./reprepro: error while loading shared libraries: libarchive.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory15:16
MohammadAGhow do I force it load the lib from a different dir?15:16
Khertan_--force15:16
CorsacKhertan_: guess so :)15:16
CorsacMohammadAG: LD_LIBRARY_PATH?15:16
MohammadAGty15:16
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kerioreally, is it normal that rsync through ssh brings my n900 down?15:22
kerio:/15:22
keriohow can i speed it up?15:22
cehtehhow do you use it?15:22
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keriocehteh: rsync -vru --modify-window=5 --delete --exclude '*DS_Store' --exclude '._*' ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes\ Music/Music/ ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes\ Music/Audiobooks/ root@10.0.2.6:/home/user/MyDocs/rec/Music15:23
cehtehrsync on FAT filesystem works bad, fat iirc has only 2 seconds fule time precision15:23
kerioi know :)15:23
cehtehi sometimes nice/ionice rsync or even use --bwlimit15:24
cehtehof course takes longer then, but doesnt bring the device down15:24
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cehtehsee also what the -a sets you may need some of them (update times on the dest!) and -P is also favorable or at least --partial15:25
MohammadAGhmm, what's Label in reprepro for?15:25
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* cehteh usually uses -aPH15:25
alteregoFinally managed to get Qt 4.7 + Madde + Qt Creator to work :)15:25
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keriocehteh: the time update is done by u15:32
kerioi can't and shouldn't use a, that also preserves permissions15:32
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keriokerio on my computer is uid 50115:32
keriouser on the n900 is... different15:32
kerioi mean, i'm using root, but still15:32
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keriocould it be that ssh is hogging the cpu?15:58
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SpeedEvilfor what?15:58
ShadowJKSometimes pepople try bruteforce my password15:58
timelessdisable passwords15:58
SpeedEvilClearly the best solution.15:58
ShadowJKThat doesn't stop them from trying?15:59
ShadowJKstill eats battery :)15:59
DuckBootShadowJK: iptables16:00
DuckBootOr - still battery-issue.16:00
ShadowJK"stop sshd" works too ;p16:00
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chem|stkerio: -a is archive and does the same as -rlptgoD where -t is preserve times16:01
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kerioSpeedEvil: for the transfer16:01
kerioi mean, using socat or something like that would probably be faster16:02
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crashanddiepeople are trying to bruteforce your n900's SSH password?16:04
crashanddieWhere the heck are you, on the wifi of a russian mob?16:05
MohammadAGLOL16:06
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keriocrashanddie: nah, they'd just hit you until you reveal the password16:10
chem|stShadowJK: changeing the port does magic ;)16:11
MohammadAGtill they do a port scan16:12
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crashanddieport scan doesn't help against port change16:15
crashanddieas long as you don't use a standard port16:15
crashanddieport scanning takes heaps of time, especially a DPS16:15
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MohammadAGwhy is gitroious's login f'd up16:23
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Arkenoiomfg. next thing afer database corruption: "unable to send or receive new messages, device storage full". needless to say there is plenty of space on all filesystems16:42
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DuckBootArkenoi: ? - You got database corruption?16:49
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Khertan__Hi !16:51
Khertan__again :)16:51
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lcukquestion:   is there a nokia phone emulator around?  I mean something to run in maemo and simulate whole old style nokia phone (with snake!)16:55
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hardakerlcuk: if you build snake from source it should run in the qtcreator emulator16:58
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hardakerbut then, if you have the source you could run it on the desktop ;-)16:58
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SpeedEvilThere is a snake in extras16:59
SpeedEvilit's not very original-like17:00
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lcukhardaker, i am talking about the full original monochrome UX and even button presses where practical17:00
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hardakerad17:00
hardakerah17:00
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DocScrutinizerinteresting idea, just for the laughs and giggles17:10
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DocScrutinizernow if it also would emulate monitor mode ( http://nobbi.com/phones.htm ) that would actually be a great thing :-D17:11
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DocScrutinizershouldn't be too hard to create an emulator for the whole "UI and application system OS" as found on e.g. a 6210-1.gen17:16
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kerio3310 ftw17:18
DocScrutinizertoo new :-P17:18
kerioone of the best phones *ever* made imo17:18
keriothe 6120c is probably the modern day equivalent17:18
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Funnyfacehow's N900 USB host mode getting along?17:20
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DocScrutinizerI'm talking about that one though http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Nokia_6210_ladestation_01.JPG&filetimestamp=2006121619065617:20
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DocScrutinizerFunnyface: slowly17:20
Funnyfacehmm :P17:22
SpeedEvilyeah.17:24
SpeedEvilSit on a 3310.17:24
SpeedEvil'I'd better move, this is uncomfortable'.17:24
SpeedEvilSit on n900. 'Oh noes!'17:24
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keriostill haven't finished the rsync ._.17:26
sp3000Sit on a ... k, I'll get me coat17:26
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SpeedEvilsp3000: Especially if it's running sybianOS17:27
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sp3000why don't I bring your coat too :)17:29
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kwtmHi!  Quick question about "X Terminal" on N900/Maemo 5: sometimes I have the arrow icon on the lower right corner that lets me cut&paste, and sometimes the icon is not present.  How can I have the icon appear if it is not there?17:33
CutMeOwnThroatthere's no sshfs in Diablo?17:33
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ShadowJKkwtm, it's not there if there's nothing to scroll17:35
ShadowJKso copy/paste should work if it's not there17:35
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kwtmShadowJK: Oh, so if there's nothing to scroll I can still highlight text and do copy paste?  Hmm, that's not what I found, so I must be doing something wrong, then.17:36
kwtmShadowJK: Thanks for the info.17:36
ShadowJKthat's the idea anyway :/17:36
ShadowJKlike, if I open new xterm, the arrow icon in lower left is missing17:37
kwtmShadowJK: Maybe vim takes control of the scrolling so X Terminal thinks it's doing a copy/paste, but I can't seem to copy properly when I highlight and vim leaps out with the "Visual" mode...17:37
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ShadowJKwhen I press enter until first line scrolls offscreen, the arrow icon appears17:37
kwtmShadowJK: I see.  Thx!17:38
ShadowJKOh, if vim uses "mouse", then vim controls what pointer/mouse/touchscreen does17:38
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ShadowJKI know nano does this too, and just moves the cursor when I tap, until I turn mouse mode off17:39
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kwtmShadowJK: Right.  I was hoping it would be like MicroB where you can put it in "quit using my mouse!" mode, and you can highlight instead of having the program (vim/MicroB) respond to the mouse/pointer.17:39
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ShadowJKvim is in control of it entirely I think17:39
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DocScrutinizerwell, how would you highlight text to mark for copy in vim, without using a mouse?17:40
kwtmShadowJK: Yeah, vim is in control of me entirely, too. :P  When I program using vim, half the time I'm looking up the reference for vim, not the actual programming language. :P17:40
tobis87Hi! Does anyone mind to recompile Dosbox with propper INT28 support? http://pastebin.com/aUiBGacZ17:40
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DocScrutinizerin a 'usual editor' you'd moce the cursor while holding shift17:41
DocScrutinizermove*17:41
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tobis87Dosbox with int28 will sleep if nothing is typed at the command prompt. And therefore reduce battery usage.17:42
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DocScrutinizer51tobis87: good find. You should post it to the maemo-dosbox project homepage, wherever that might be17:45
DocScrutinizer51or even open a ticket for it17:45
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tobis87DocScrutinizer51: On bugs.maemo.org? I thought It was just build and not really supported.17:46
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satmdDocScrutinizer: esc, v, move the cursor17:49
satmdcalled 'visual mode'17:49
tobis87DocScrutinizer51: It's in extras-testing and the promotian was rejected. It should be easy through, I think a apt-get source dosbox, patch and dpkg-buildpackage should do it.17:50
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DocScrutinizer51when it's in testing, then there has to be a bugtracker link to point you to where such bugfix should get posted17:52
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tobis87DocScrutinizer51: No it has not a bugtracker: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/dosbox/0.73-7maemo5/17:53
MohammadAGDEMOTE!!!17:54
MohammadAGtbh17:54
DocScrutinizer51sure when dosbox eats cpu like mad by polling user input, then it's been rejected for promoting for good reason17:54
MohammadAGthe check should be automatic17:54
MohammadAGif something doesn't have a bug tracker, reject17:54
* MohammadAG pokes X-Fade 17:54
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kerioyay, rsync complete17:55
kerionow to index 13gb of music17:55
kerio:/17:55
MohammadAGlol17:55
* RST38bis politely asks the Tentacled One to either disconnect .gr from the Net completely, or make it stop doing what it is currently doing17:56
keriowhat's .gr?17:56
aquatixgreece?17:58
aquatixRST38bis: what's up?17:58
zashyes17:58
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zashhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.gr = win17:58
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RST38bisaquatix: hot, humid, internet cheap but unstable17:59
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RST38bisaquatix: + it looks like the whole country shuts down for Monday afternoon, no idea why18:01
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CutMeOwnThroatmmh, the application manager on my N810 says (no applications installed)18:01
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CutMeOwnThroatdpkg -l shows installed packages, though18:02
DocScrutinizer~seen javispedro18:02
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 81d 14h 3m 34s ago, saying: 'oh.. aisleriot solitaire with clutter/3D vista-like animations! port port port !'.18:02
* RST38bis also met a wifi ap that does not like powersaving, for the first time. Guess those poor complaining souls were right after all...18:04
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CutMeOwnThroatdoesn't the application manager just run dpkg -l to get the list?18:04
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tobis87So if anyone has some spare time, could he/she please compile dosbox with int28?18:06
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aquatixRST38bis: ah, right18:06
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cheriffhas anyone tried a 'remote wipe' of an N900 activesync client? Is it just the exchang-ish stuff? (i.e. can the system recognise that as a 'ive been stolen' cue and nuke other things? even wait for PUK code?)18:20
fralserr, is that even implemented in the n900?`18:21
cheriffi see the option there on owa but im not game to try it18:21
cherifffrals: the rest of activesync seems to be18:22
cheriffi guess thats my question :)18:22
fralsdont think the n900 supports remote wipe since it isnt a provisioned device in exchange eyes but dunno18:22
timelessit doesn't support it18:23
timelessthe MfE team wanted to add support18:23
timelessbut they couldn't get whatever was required18:23
keriomental sanity?18:23
timelessit's also unclear *how* to remote wipe w/ a Flash based file system18:23
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timelessi think the only real way to support it is for the entire file system to be encrypted18:23
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keriotimeless: dd if=/dev/zero?18:24
timelesskerio: have you ever used a flash based file system?18:24
timelessdo you know how it works?18:24
kerionope18:24
timelessamong fun things, dd tends to fail when it hits errors18:24
timelessand flash based files systems are built assuming errors18:24
keriohmm18:24
keriowhat about the eMMC?18:24
crashanddietimeless: nope, no encryption required for MfE remote wipe -- at least, not full encryption. You just need OS signature to ensure you're running a controlled OS, AFAIK18:24
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timelessthey also tend to remap fields18:24
timelesseMMC is no different when you get down to it18:24
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timelessyou aren't really directly addressing a raw array of bits18:25
timelessyou're addressing a wear-leveled system18:25
timelesswhich intentionally avoids writing to the same locations18:25
cherifftimeless: interesting (about the sync/wipe) thanks.18:25
timelessmeaning the data that was there before what you tried to replace18:25
timelessis almost certainly going to be there18:25
timelessbecause that's the *last* place the system wants to write18:26
timelesscheriff: basically, the MfE team is aware and really wants to help18:26
timelessbut the technology kinda sucks18:26
cheriffim impressed exchange support works as well as it does!18:26
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timelessw/ crypto, it's vaguely possible18:26
cheriffwhich is more than i can say for MSs own Entourage on mac :/18:26
timelessif you can ensure that the *only* place which held the cert is destroyed18:26
timelesscheriff: yeah, my manager hates entourage18:27
timelessi dunno, for me, it more or less works18:27
timelessbut i didn't become a Mail.app/iCal.app addict18:27
timelessi just use my n900s :)18:27
timelessand yeah, they work ! :)18:27
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crashanddiecheriff: entourage works fine?18:27
timelessthe old  Palms which required a physical battery to retain memory were some of the few devices where remote wiping really works :)18:28
cheriffi find it usable enough, just weirded out that it resorts to polling teh server every 7 mins. Phone gets emails instantly, pc gets it (time % 7) mins later :)18:28
timelesseverything else is kinda a lot of hand waving18:28
timelessunless they really rewrite each sector a dozen times or something18:28
crashanddiecheriff: same thing on outlook18:29
timelesscheriff: heh18:29
* timeless uses 30min sync w/ n90018:29
timelessi get mail too often to want constant updates18:29
timelessand 99.99% of it is spam18:29
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crashanddieI went to 3h email fetching18:30
cherifftimeless: true. although a simple delete, enough to stop some damn kid who stole my phone from reading work email would be a good 1st pass. holding up to determined espionage can wait :)18:30
cheriffbut no big deal, i' just curious, really18:30
timelesscheriff: for that, you can get smoeone to make a third party app...18:30
timelesskeep in mind that the people who buy and provision really are worried about espionage18:31
crashanddiecheriff: there's a stolen N900 project18:31
crashanddiecheriff: "phone home" or something18:31
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cherifftimelsee: i wasn't aware wipe relied on provisioning. so there you go, for my ignorance :)18:31
tobis87regarding encryption, I heard that the omap does support hardware crypto acceleration, but I could only find a module for hash (sha1 & md5) acceleration in the kernel source.18:32
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tobis87which also has to be modified, i think a asm define is wrong in this driver.18:33
timelesstobis87: i'm pretty sure we've announced that harmattan will include more encryption support18:33
timelessand yeah, that's coming from hardware18:33
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timelesssupporting things from a cpu requires resources18:34
timelessso if things aren't required by a project, they don't generally get resources18:34
crashanddietimeless: nice18:34
TomaszDhildon is dead http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop/commit/624231109e727e7b4c21c9f1a526ff191c309e5a18:35
timelesssince the only thing for fremantle which could have really required the crypto was mfe, and it didn't get a go ahead,... no crypto18:35
crashanddietimeless: I wouldn't mind sha1 hardware generation on the next interation18:35
crashanddieTomaszD: that's old news from last week mate18:35
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CutMeOwnThroatmy, this is the first time I  connected to the N810 via ssh - wonder what's wrong, it is _slow_ - something like 10 seconds from typing something until there's a reaction18:36
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tobis87timeless: i know that it requires resource. i had a nice experience with the new via nano processor. which also has crypto acceleration, but we always got wrong results from the hash engine, it turned out that it was a hardware fault. via forgot to connect the three highest bits in 32-bit eax/ecx to the padding generator.18:36
crashanddieCutMeOwnThroat: PSM18:36
CutMeOwnThroat?18:37
timelesstobis87: awesome18:37
crashanddieCutMeOwnThroat: Power Save Mode isn't playing nice with your router18:37
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CutMeOwnThroatcrashanddie, oh, you're saying it goes to sleep all the time? What's the router got to do with it?18:38
CutMeOwnThroatso I keep hitting the touch screen?18:38
crashanddieCutMeOwnThroat: no, power save mode is a wifi thingie, has nothing to do with the screen. What it basically means is that the n810 is saying "I'm sleeping for 580ms, keep my messages 'till then", but the router doesn't understand this, and sends everything through immediately, and then the n810 asks "Hey bro, you got anything for me?" And the router doesn't reply, as it doesn't understand what he's asking...18:40
cheriffthats an awesome explanation :)18:41
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CutMeOwnThroathehe18:42
CutMeOwnThroatany workaround?18:42
DocScrutinizerTomaszD: BS, hildon is mature18:42
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CutMeOwnThroatand yes... nice explanation :)18:43
crashanddiewow18:43
crashanddie~ping18:43
infobot~pong18:43
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DocScrutinizerTomaszD: I agree they could have chosen a less pathetic wording18:44
crashanddieI actually disconnected the ethernet cable, went up one flight of stairs, plugged back in to my office's ethernet, and I'm still connected!18:44
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CutMeOwnThroatit happens...18:44
CutMeOwnThroatdon't rely on it, though18:44
CutMeOwnThroatsometimes I put the laptop into sleep mode for 5 minutes, then go back and the ssh i had opened is still active18:45
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crashanddieCutMeOwnThroat: the best way to see if it's the PSM that's screwing with your N810, check a few wireless networks and see if you have the same issue18:45
cheriffyeah - handy for when moving from desks to meeting rooms, etc. can just close the lid.18:45
DocScrutinizertobis87: (3 highest bits) ouuuuch18:45
crashanddieif not, then change your router, for something that actually works18:45
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crashanddieif you still have the problem on every single network you try, it may be something else, dunno what though, as I've only seen this in relation with PSM18:46
kht_n900Hi again18:46
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CutMeOwnThroatmmmh, both not easy18:46
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CutMeOwnThroatno open wireless around here, as a rule18:47
CutMeOwnThroatbut thanks18:47
kht_n900Someone have try Khweeteur ?18:47
crashanddienot even at starbucks/mcdonalds?18:47
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crashanddiekht_n900: twitter is for twats, so not me :P18:47
kht_n900twats ? could you trad ?18:48
CutMeOwnThroatcrashanddie, but that wouldn't become visible when using the network from the tablet?18:48
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CutMeOwnThroathmm... come to think of it... perhaps it did... didn't use the net so much here18:48
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tobis87DocScrutinizer: Yes, files up to 512mb were correct, after that it broke. The padlock engine is messed up anyway, via nano stepping 2 fetches to many bytes when using aes acceleration and vmx support was also broken, but they forgot to disable it in the bios.18:49
DocScrutinizer~psm-fault is <reply>power save mode is a wifi thingie, has nothing to do with the screen. What it basically means is that the n810 is saying "I'm sleeping for 580ms, keep my messages 'till then", but the router doesn't understand this, and sends everything through immediately, and then the n810 asks "Hey bro, you got anything for me?" And the router doesn't reply, as it doesn't understand what he's asking...18:50
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer18:50
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crashanddieanyway, going back home18:52
crashanddie'later all18:52
meceasdf18:52
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DocScrutinizertobis87: EE's nightmare - find a severe bug after first bunch of 100k has been manufactured18:52
tobis87DocScrutinizer: I think they pushed it into the market, because they wanted to compete with the intel atom, the via nano is faster than the atom in superpi and it supports long mode. But the atom feels faster because it supports hyperthreading.18:53
DocScrutinizer:-D18:53
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CasTTeLLohello18:55
kht_n900Someone know how to automatically open network connection in a qt apps ?18:55
CasTTeLLo-ve18:55
tobis87DocScrutinizer: And the worst of all, gcc fails to compile in long mode. Therefore gentoo x86_64 is a no go on the nano.18:57
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timelesslong mode?18:57
ShadowJK64bit18:57
ShadowJKMy atom board is running 64bit debian right now :)18:58
CasTTeLLoneed quick help here : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5114718:58
tobis87ShadowJK: The new ones do support it?18:58
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DocScrutinizer51atom board!18:59
ShadowJKtobis87, long mode has been/is disabled on laptop versions, enabled on desktop versions iirc18:59
tobis87ShadowJK: But if I can remember correctly, the atoms don't support out of order execution.18:59
ShadowJKvia is a bit strange. The via-made boards are 3 times more expensive than third party boards with via, but I haven't heard of a third party via board that's stable..19:00
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DocScrutinizer51would any binary *rely* on out of orser execution?19:01
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ShadowJKno it's a performance thing19:01
DocScrutinizer51sure19:01
tobis87ShadowJK: Yes, video drivers for linux on via boards are a nightmare!19:02
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ShadowJKI vaguely remember a lkml thread where a third party via board only was stable under windows because it came with a binary blob that fixed timings to work around board bugs, because they were too lazy/incompetent to change the via bios to do it19:04
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ShadowJKso it either booted or didn't boot windows, bit of luck required, and if it did, it was stable19:04
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ShadowJKbut never survived a day in linux :)19:05
cherifftobis87: yeah atoms are in-order, hence hyperthreading is actually more useful there than it mihgt've been on say P4: rather than stall, get the execution units progressing on the other thread.19:05
ShadowJKooo takes up so much silicon :)19:06
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CasTTeLLobump!19:13
DocScrutinizerbounce!19:13
CasTTeLLoneed quick help here : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5114719:13
CasTTeLLon900 mini monitor-queen beecon19:14
CasTTeLLoimage not found19:14
CasTTeLLo??19:14
tobis87cheriff: if there wouldn't be 20 years old programs for x86, which still have to run. it wouldn't really make sense to transform x86 instructions into micro ops internally. but intel failed with the itanium. I like the idea from transmeta to emulate x86 instructions, hardware faults like these from via could easily got fixed.19:14
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tobis87I mean look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_QQchhMqHo , adding nopl support after 10 years!:-D19:17
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keriolol@you guys keeping connections alive that way19:20
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slonopotamushmm... is it only me or http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/2010/08/16/three-interesting-maemo5-bits/ doesn't have post text?19:21
kerioi can plug an ethernet cable while i'm connected via wifi and all traffic goes through the ethernet19:21
keriosame router, same ip19:21
keriogotta love ARP19:21
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kerioso... preorders for the N8 are open19:28
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kerioless maemo, less space, more megapixels19:29
kerio:/19:29
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EdLinkerio: it's likely to be the last N series phone with Symbian.19:35
EdLinkerio: of course, the new C series and the E series will remain symbian.19:36
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ArkenoiIt is damn a shame that nokia did not kill symbian in N series *this* year, as promised19:43
CutMeOwnThroatoh, and what program can tell me how much free space the root partition has? df doesn't print anything19:43
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* Arkenoi played with N8 prototype, it sucks19:43
DocScrutinizer51err?19:43
Arkenoiactually hardware damn rules, but symbian sucks19:43
DocScrutinizer51df *should* print _something_19:44
ArkenoiUI sucks, absense of unified communications sucks19:44
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CutMeOwnThroatwell, it prints Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on19:45
ArkenoiUI sucks a bit less than 5800/n97 but it is still eversucking symbian touch with its lousy inability to recognize simple intuitive gestures like tap and scroll properly19:45
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ShadowJKOn symbian I'm mostly annoyed by the lack of apps, and the nightmareish APIs and devtools19:45
CutMeOwnThroatif I do df -h . in $HomE19:45
CutMeOwnThroator df -h /19:46
ShadowJKremove the .19:46
CutMeOwnThroatthen it only shows the memory card, not the root filesystem19:46
CutMeOwnThroatoh, actually not19:46
CutMeOwnThroatthanks...19:46
CutMeOwnThroatweird behavior19:46
ShadowJKNo . is the "current directory", so it just shows that fs19:47
Alt096has anyone tried to boot maemo via vbox ?19:47
ShadowJKand if you feed it nonsense, it wont find a matching fs and shows nothing19:47
CutMeOwnThroatShadowJK, I know... but it didn't19:47
DocScrutinizer51x act ly19:47
CutMeOwnThroat. is on the same partition as / in $HOME19:47
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DocScrutinizer51nope19:48
CutMeOwnThroatdf -h / does the same19:48
ShadowJK$HOME is not on same fs as /, unless something is wrong19:48
* DocScrutinizer51 suspect pebcak19:49
CutMeOwnThroatwhat part of "df -h /" also prints nothing is it that you don't understand?19:49
CutMeOwnThroatbut you're right, plain "df -h" does19:50
ShadowJKcopy paste resukts of plain df?19:50
DocScrutinizer51also of 'mount'19:50
ShadowJK(to pastebin type site)19:50
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DocScrutinizer51also ofr 'df /'19:51
CutMeOwnThroathttp://pastebin.com/NzDNhTSr19:52
ShadowJKoh, N810 :-)19:53
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CutMeOwnThroatI said that up there somewhere ^^^^^19:53
DocScrutinizerCutMeOwnThroat: now that's definitely odd19:53
CutMeOwnThroatnot so very recently, though19:53
ShadowJKwhy os mtdblock4 both on initfs and /...19:53
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ShadowJKah it's probably just df confused19:54
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DocScrutinizerfor reference: http://paste.debian.net/83701/19:55
CutMeOwnThroatDocScrutinizer, btw. want to add to the factoid that one can switch PSM off in the connection manager for certain connections?19:56
ShadowJKdf / doesn't work on my N810 either :)19:56
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cheriffam i missing something: can only select dialing acct (cellular or SIP) a) globally or b) on dialpad?19:56
CutMeOwnThroatso /home is on the internal sd card on the N900?19:56
DocScrutinizeryep19:56
xae8kooI just an N900 :D19:57
CutMeOwnThroatwhat's the pymaemo stuff?19:57
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ShadowJKbindmounts to move python to internal sd too19:57
xae8kooThe battery was emptwont turn on19:58
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ShadowJKif it's empty, dont try turn it on19:58
xae8kooThe charing ligth is on thoug19:59
DocScrutinizerCutMeOwnThroat: but as I noticed just now, that's N81019:59
xae8kooShadowJK: How long should I wait19:59
CutMeOwnThroatright...19:59
DocScrutinizerCutMeOwnThroat: (PSM) that's not correct afaik, it's a global setting for all connections20:00
ShadowJKis it continous on, or is it blinking/glowing?20:00
xae8kooThe ligth is yellow20:00
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xae8kooI don't think it is glowing20:01
DocScrutinizer~flatbatrecover20:01
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover20:01
ShadowJKwhat infobot says20:01
ShadowJKIf you just got an n900, and the battery was low like that, there's a nonzero chance the battery has taken some damage, depending on how long it has been empty. they dont like being empty20:02
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DocScrutinizeryep20:03
CutMeOwnThroatDocScrutinizer, I just did that.... and you find it on the N810 when you re-enter/accept all data for the connection, then use the little "advanced button" and select "other"... if that's global, then that fact is well-hidden20:03
DocScrutinizernevertheless it is20:03
CutMeOwnThroatDocScrutinizer, and I just checked another connection and there it says "Power saving: On (maximum)"20:03
DocScrutinizercheck advanced settings for a different connection, they changed as well20:04
DocScrutinizerduh20:04
CutMeOwnThroatthat's what I just did and it isn't20:04
t_s_odo anyone know why there is the same version gconf-editor sitting in both maemo4 extra and extra-devel?20:04
DocScrutinizerthat's new20:04
cheriff(nevermind me, i didn't have 'use for telephone numbers' enabled, but it still showed in the dialer. it does work as I expected. nice)20:04
DocScrutinizermaybe that's just the power then (10/100mW) but not the PSM20:04
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DocScrutinizermight make sense20:05
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CutMeOwnThroatmight be... didn't touch the 10/100mW... didn't see any use changing that20:05
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DocScrutinizerPSM is AP specific, while TX power is independent of association to any AP20:05
xae8kooWhat did a blincking ligth mean?20:06
DocScrutinizerCutMeOwnThroat: thanks for pushing my nose into it20:06
ShadowJKtx power thing is only like useful if you're in france anyway, where you can only use 10mW outdoors20:06
ShadowJKxae8koo, it shines, it stops shining, it shines, it stops shining20:06
DocScrutinizerxeor: amber blinking  indicator? means the device booted up to act_dead minimal system and is charging20:06
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DocScrutinizerxae8koo: ^^20:07
cehtehuhm .. 10mW .. how far goes that with line of sight? 15m?20:07
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xeorDocScrutinizer20:07
xeor*revenge highlight*20:07
CutMeOwnThroatDocScrutinizer, and thanks for the "plain df" thing... I might never have tried that and noticed... :) Too much output, so I always tried to supply a specific directory20:07
CutMeOwnThroatcehteh, "glue to AP"20:07
xae8kooI love this phone20:08
xae8kooIt is so fancy!20:08
ShadowJKcehteh, probably. Maybe they are lmited on space so they cant build houses at 100mW range from eachother :P20:08
DocScrutinizercehteh: 10 times TX power means double the range20:08
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cehtehideally .. but in practice i suspect 10mW is worse than half the range of 100mW20:09
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kirmahow do you end up with "twice" ?20:09
DocScrutinizercehteh: and, depending on your receiver mostly, as well as on gain of your TX antenna, 10mW may have a range of 100km20:09
DocScrutinizer:-D20:09
cehtehyeah in practice20:09
kirma3.3-fold range ideally, I'd say20:09
cehteh100mW is usually advertized as 400m ...20:10
SpeedEvil500km20:10
SpeedEvilWe're getting 500-600Km on 10mW@433MHz in the uk20:10
DocScrutinizerkirma: nope, it's cubic20:10
SpeedEvilballoon-ground.20:10
DocScrutinizer^320:10
SpeedEvil50bps rtty20:10
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xae8kooHow do I install easy debian, or anything for that matter?20:10
DocScrutinizer4/3 r^3 pi20:10
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ShadowJKApplication Manager - menu - catalogs, enable maemo.org20:11
ShadowJKbrowse apps20:11
* cehteh speaking about consumer access points with stump antennas and n900 .. not 3m dishes on each side20:11
DocScrutinizernot exactly, but more alike it than ^220:11
kirmasurface area of a sphere grows with r^2, volume with r^3. area is what matters20:11
kirmaunless the air is particularly non-transparent at the wavelength, but it's not the case with normal wlan20:12
cehtehmeans would 10mW even be practical for Wlan access on your balcony .. prolly thats already unreliable20:12
DocScrutinizernope, it isn't20:12
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johnsqHi20:13
DocScrutinizer(unreliable)20:13
cehtehisnt practical or isnt reliable?20:13
cehteh:)20:13
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ShadowJKit's wireless, it's unreliable by definition20:14
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cehtehanyway i set my AP to 'highest transmit power' ... marking my terrain ;P20:14
DocScrutinizercehteh: given above facts quoted, if 100mW = 400m then 10mW = 200m20:14
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: err - those aren't facts.20:14
SpeedEvilIt's 1/r^2, not 1/r^320:14
DocScrutinizerwhatever20:14
cehtehthat are facts ... in a ideal physical world20:14
DocScrutinizeruhuh20:15
cehtehmay actually work on the moon when you on the rim of a crater :)20:15
DocScrutinizerhow that?20:15
SpeedEvilUnless you're making other assumptions.20:15
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SpeedEvilWith a clear line of sight, and neglecting noise, signal drops as 1/r^220:15
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DocScrutinizertransmission ideally is sperical20:15
DocScrutinizerspherical20:15
ShadowJKwhen they say 400m they probably mean big antenna on both sides :)20:15
SpeedEvilThe _area_ of a sphere grows as r^220:15
cehtehbut in practice the casing already absorbs a bit, there is a lot noise around, reflections and all crap20:15
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SpeedEvilthe signal is diluted by the area, so it's 1/r^220:16
DocScrutinizerso surface of a sphere with twice the diameter is what exactly?20:16
cehtehyeah my AP hardly reached 30m ... but thats inside a old building20:16
DocScrutinizerooop20:16
DocScrutinizers20:16
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SpeedEvil4*, not 8*20:16
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DocScrutinizerdamn coffe :-( - need to run buy milk, it seems it doesn't work without20:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: sorry, of course you're right20:17
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kirmaone has to notice that a relatively thin obstruction can reduce signal strength by 10 decibels, which equals roughly to doubling distance to the access point... and human is also reasonably good insulator20:20
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kirmamultipathing also tends to reduce the efficiency from what it could be in unobstructed environment20:20
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kirmaalso, plain direct line of sight isn't enough, but obstructions slightly away from the path can affect the situation, depending on the wavelength20:22
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* GAN900 boggles at abill's new 200-post thread.20:25
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meceyo, how do I make a forward in wiki?20:27
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meceGAN900, indeed. boggles is exactly the right word for it.20:28
xae8kooWhat is the name of the infared remote on the N900?20:28
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xae8kooI love this phone!20:30
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mece #REDIRECT [[asdf]]20:31
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meceif anyone's interested.20:31
mecethought I might make some wiki fixes.20:31
rlinfatiHi... when i open the ovi map on n900, this download about 0,5MB... why? i'm in roaming mode... and this is expensive...20:31
rlinfatiis a bug?20:32
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ShadowJKit does all sorts of stuff like checking for new maps, downloading maps if you don't have them, and so on..20:34
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rlinfatii have ALL maps downloaded....20:35
lcukrlinfati, wow, impressive20:36
rlinfatiyep... now i not close ovi maps... but is not a real solution...20:36
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rlinfatialmost... on roaming mode.... the ovi maps need disable this check20:37
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ShadowJKI just staid offline when roaming20:38
ShadowJKseemed easiest20:38
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rlinfatibut, i want a fast gps lock... and need a data conection .)20:39
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ShadowJKjust wait until the automatic check for software updates kicks in, it uses alot more than 0.5M :)20:43
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meceyeah, stay offline while roaming...20:45
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DocScrutinizerxae8koo: irreco, qtirreco20:45
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rlinfatiShadowJK: i disable the SSU:)20:46
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: heh, abill_uk started an own thread to stay away from 'normal worlds' and also to scoop up all the trolls there? great idea :-P20:47
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DocScrutinizerrlinfati: didn't you read the warning on first start of maps app? it says exactly that: "high data transfer volume! be warned... own risk and bill, bla bla"20:49
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DocScrutinizeranyway I strongly suggest we get app specific netfilter rules, plus a convenient GUI to set/enable/disable them, plus an API to do same via d-bus20:53
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meceIt would be nice to get the meego to a state where one can update to the latest version from a repository directly from within meego (or the chroot) so you don't have to rebuild a new image and whatnot..20:54
DocScrutinizerdisabling the whole netfilter/iptables thing in stock kernel for sure wasn't a brilliant idea20:54
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mecewait what? why the hell are they disabled?20:55
xae8kooHow do I install skype?20:55
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BCMM_xae8koo: installed by default, at least on the n90020:56
MohammadAGmece, afaik yes, that's why mobilehostspot needs a custom kernel20:57
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xae8kooBCMM_: Where do I find it?20:57
MohammadAGSettings > IM accounts20:57
MohammadAGor similar20:57
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slonopotamusmece, well... things work that way everywhere except nokia world :)20:58
meceooh well. since there are custom kernels...20:59
mecexae8koo, if you bought your phone in india you need to flash international firmware to get skype.20:59
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xae8kooNorway21:00
MohammadAGSettings > IM accounts21:00
xae8kooHow bout MSN?21:00
* MohammadAG VNCs into N9021:00
MohammadAGtelepathy-haze, install it21:00
meceno21:00
mecepecan21:00
mecehaze blows.21:00
MohammadAGpecan doesn't allow nicknames21:01
mecein my opinion.21:01
MohammadAGpecan blows, imo :P21:01
mecehaze eats batteries like there's no tomorrow21:01
mece:P21:01
MohammadAGreally?21:01
mecewell at least more than pecan21:01
mecein my experience. although it's been about 6 months since I tried haze, so it could be improved.21:02
meces/be/have been/21:02
infobotmece meant: in my experience. although it's have beenen about 6 months since I tried haze, so it could be improved.21:02
mecedamn21:02
mecethat failed21:02
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tobis87wasn't haze having the liblongcat dependency?:)21:04
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poussahHello21:08
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poussahI have a little problem on my n900, searched TMO and the rest of the web but did'nt find anything relevant, so I'd like to ask here before flashing my device...21:09
keriousually searching TMO leads to nothing and trolls21:09
kerio:)21:09
poussah!21:09
poussahI have no more sms and missed call notifications, e-amils are ok21:10
poussah(no vibration, led, sound, popup, nothing !)21:10
poussahfor smses, the conversation sw opens, but its preview in the task manager doesn't indicate there is a new msg21:11
poussahI run PR 1.2 with a lot of devel stuff (I don't mind the occasionnal instability at all, but this is annoying :D)21:11
poussahany ideas ?21:11
Jaffapoussah: You've installed something from devel which bfroke stuff. This is why there are warnings.21:12
Jaffapoussah: Using anything like tweakr, N9Presetor Custom Ringtones?21:12
poussahnope21:13
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poussah@Jaffa, II know the risks of devel, but before removing a whole big bunch of apps or flashing, I prefer to ask here if anyone had the same preblem recently21:13
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DocScrutinizerpoussah: nope. Would be nice if you report back after you found what's causing the problem21:16
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DocScrutinizerpoussah: do you get your usual ringtones on inbound calls?21:18
DocScrutinizerlo Jaffa21:18
poussahDocScrutinizer: sure, will do... not much time to look for it right now, though, could be a few days. Google gave me someone who had the same problem but it was solved by a reboot. Not the case here though.21:18
poussahDocScrutinizer: yes yes, no problem with that21:18
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poussahbut if i don't answer, it's like it never appenened, except in the calls log21:19
xae8kooThe irreco21:19
Jaffapoussah: ...so that you can report bugs to the appropriate developers, I assume? :)21:19
xae8kooHow can I make it work for my TV?21:19
poussahJaffa: well if i can link that to a specific app, sure i will report it21:19
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DocScrutinizerdo you have anything that tampers with /etc/mce/mce.ini ? like e.g. led pattern editor, or wibrator settings or something similar21:20
DocScrutinizer?21:20
poussahLPE yes21:20
poussahbut I set it like 3 months ago21:20
DocScrutinizerrestore /etc/mce/mce.ini to default state21:20
poussahand there hasn't been an update recently, i think (checking now)21:21
poussahyep, will try that21:21
* DocScrutinizer wonders how to actually acomplish that21:21
poussahaccomplish what, restore ?21:21
DocScrutinizeryep :-D21:21
poussahLPE makes a backup, if I remember correctly21:21
poussah(left the phone in the car, can't check right now...)21:21
DocScrutinizerI maybe wouldn't trust into that either21:21
poussahlol21:22
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DocScrutinizergoogle might help. If no success in locating original file, come back here, somebody may pastebin it21:22
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poussahLPE not updated in 3 months...21:23
poussahgotta go, I'll report if I ever solve it :(21:23
poussahthx Jaffa and DocScrutinizer :-)21:23
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kerioxae8koo: qtirreco is simpler21:28
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DocScrutinizerdarn he's gone - forgot to advice him to check mtime of mce.ini, to get a clue what actually messed it - if anything21:29
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xae8kookerio: I think it is what I have, not sure though21:30
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xae8kooit is qtrecco21:33
xae8kooStill it doesnt work21:33
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kerioit's not the tv, it's the remote21:33
keriothere's a database of *remotes*21:33
xae8kooI think it was messy21:33
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xae8kooDammit, qtrecco doesn't work with my tv21:49
xae8kooDoesn21:49
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xae8koo't have an auto search feature?21:49
lcukxae8koo, the IR is TX only21:50
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ifvoidhi21:51
ifvoidI need some help with cross-compiling mplayer21:51
ifvoidusing scratchbox, everything seems to work fine21:51
ifvoidcc nicely produces arm binaries21:51
ifvoidbut then it chokes on some assembly21:52
ifvoidarm/dsputil_arm.S:113: Error: bad instruction `ldm r1,{r4-r7}'21:52
ifvoidetc21:52
ifvoidanyone got an isea of what I'm doing wrong here?21:52
* Stskeeps glances at talk.maemo.org and just shakes his head.21:53
TomaszDStskeeps, what, maybe you don't want to "increase megapixels" huh?21:55
StskeepsTomaszD: 640x480 ought to be enough for everyone!21:56
TomaszDword21:56
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* MohammadAG opens tmo22:00
* MohammadAG sees "+ As anyone can see, some apps on the iPhone can enlarge the photo from 2 Megapixel (iPhone 2G-3G) to 4-5 Megapixel, and somehow to 7 Megapixel but the photo still in good quality."22:00
MohammadAGLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL22:01
MohammadAGyeah so...22:01
mecewtf?22:01
MohammadAGreencode picture, use worst decompression, make image 10MBs in size22:01
MohammadAGcall it resizing image22:01
mortinihaha22:01
MohammadAGlaugh at all idiots believing it22:01
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mortininono, make it like 10000x10000 pixels22:01
mortinioh, nevermind22:02
* mortini is context-illiterate.22:02
mecea million!22:02
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* DocScrutinizer drive-by types *YAWN*22:26
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crashanddiegreetings22:38
alteregoaloha22:38
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crashanddieI just modded the intake of my bike22:39
crashanddiegreat sound it has now22:40
GAN900Does it sing?22:41
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crashanddiewell, depends22:41
GAN900Like, real music.22:42
GAN900Not any of this stupid "like beautiful engineering" shit.22:42
crashanddiewell, it's just a 125cc engine, so it's not going to rival a 650 or 1000cc22:42
crashanddieso I'm guessing the answer would be "no"22:42
DocScrutinizerHAI22:43
DocScrutinizerCAN HAS stdio?22:43
DocScrutinizerCAN HAS TMO-ADMIN?22:43
DocScrutinizerI HAS MAYI22:43
DocScrutinizerGIMME MAYI22:43
keriololcode <322:43
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DocScrutinizerIZ MAYI LIKE "OK"?22:43
DocScrutinizerYARLY22:43
DocScrutinizer    GONAUSE KILL-ALL FRO TMO-ADMIN22:43
* crashanddie hands DocScrutinizer a happy pill22:43
DocScrutinizerKTHNXBYE22:43
kerioalso, a 7 megapixel image is easy to create from a 2 megapixel image22:44
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crashanddieeh?22:45
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DocScrutinizerfeels like COBOL :-P22:47
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GAN900Kids these days.22:49
crashanddieI'm lost22:50
DocScrutinizerbest thing of cobol: STOP RUN22:50
DocScrutinizerfeels like LOLCODE :-P22:51
* timeless cries22:51
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crashanddiewoops22:54
* timeless can't figure out how to get a usb device to talk to OSX or VBox22:55
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jacekowskitimeless: you have osx and vbox running on it?22:55
DocScrutinizerwatch 'darkstar" :-)22:55
timelessi have two macs22:56
timelessa G5 and a MBP(intel)22:56
jacekowskidouble problem22:56
jacekowskii understand22:56
timelessthe MBP has VBox22:56
timelessi want to use a Pinnacle USB TV thing22:56
jacekowskiwell, we can start sorting out simpler problem22:56
DocScrutinizerouch22:56
jacekowskiouch22:56
jacekowskithat needs overlays and shit22:56
timeless??22:56
jacekowskioi22:57
DocScrutinizerall those USB TV come with windose drivers. If you're *very* lucky you can find linux drivers for older models22:58
jacekowskii think that's why he uses virtualbox22:58
timelessit's an old model, circa '822:58
timelesserr '98/'9922:58
jacekowskioi22:58
DocScrutinizerif you don't have a MacOS driver coming with the DVB-stick, then you're probably busted22:58
jacekowskiusb?22:58
jacekowski11 years old usb tv device?22:59
timelessPinnacle Studio PCTV USB22:59
jacekowskithat was usb 1.022:59
timelessyeah, so?22:59
timelessis usb1.0 not supported?22:59
jacekowski12Mbits22:59
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DocScrutinizerstreaming video over usb1.0?22:59
timelessso?22:59
timelessall i want to do is watch tv22:59
jacekowskihow that even worked?22:59
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timelessit did23:00
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* timeless used it in 98 or 9923:00
timelesswell enough to watch tv23:00
jacekowskithing is that usb passtrough is not going to happen on osx23:00
timeless?23:00
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timelesswhat do you mean?23:00
timelessi have usb crypto passing from my mac to vbox23:01
timelessto w723:01
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timeless(smart card reader)23:01
jacekowskithere are two ways of doing passtrough23:01
timelesswhy should this device be "special"?23:01
* timeless listens23:01
jacekowskifull passtrough23:01
jacekowskiwhich presents device as is to guest23:01
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jacekowskifake passtrough23:01
jacekowskiwhich emulates device to guest using host drivers23:02
timelessum, ok23:02
keriovbox allows full passthrough, doesn't it?23:02
kerioif not vbox, then vmware or parallels23:02
jacekowskibut it needs drivers for it23:02
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TomaszDI once tried linux -> windows vbox full usb passthrough for a tv tuner and it crashed spectacularly every time23:02
jacekowskiand cpu with pacifica/vanderpool23:02
DocScrutinizertimeless: this won't be your hapiest day today23:02
timelessdoc: i've had a number of unhappy days23:03
jacekowskiand usb tv stick is probably not going to work very well in any non native setup23:03
crashanddieerhm, I thought fake passthrough required drivers, rather than the opposite23:03
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timelessbut technically my unhappy day was yesterday when my scart supporting LCD died23:03
timeless(or rather: gave up the ghost, it had been dying for a while)23:03
jacekowskicrashanddie: no special driver are required on host side for fake passtrough23:04
timelessthis is hardly a stick23:04
jacekowskicrashanddie: vbox just talks to device and that's all23:04
timelesshttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.manifest-tech.com/images/pc_video/pinn_pctv/pctv_system_cables.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_pc/pinn_pctv.htm&h=130&w=188&sz=6&tbnid=2Towh2_L30VYMM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPinnacle%2BStudio%2BPCTV%2BUSB&usg=__orsWFjzbBLhK8aPUno5WpsRkniI=&sa=X&ei=uZlpTP_uN-idOKyM0bkF&ved=0CC0Q9QEwBQ23:04
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jacekowskilike any normal app would do23:04
jacekowskipassing trough real device is harder23:04
jacekowskibecause you need more controll23:04
jacekowskias that guest may tell device to modify/read memory23:05
crashanddiejacekowski: I guess I'm confused in the lingo, nvmd me23:05
keriotimeless: if you manage to get one of those to work tell me, i have a pinnacle dvbt tuner too and it doesn't work with eyetv :(23:05
jacekowskicrashanddie: are you sure there are no native drivers avaliable23:05
jacekowskihmm, not you23:05
jacekowskitimeless: you23:05
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jacekowskiwhy don't you buy apple tv23:06
timelessum...23:06
timelesshow much? and how's it work?23:06
timelessi don't own the mac w/ vbox23:06
keriolol23:06
jacekowskiit has steves blessing23:06
timelessi own the g523:06
keriothe iTV sucks23:06
kerio(it's now called iTV)23:07
timelessi'm in scart land23:07
jacekowskihttp://www.apple.com/appletv/23:07
kerioit's an underpowered mac mini with crappy, locked-down software23:07
jacekowskihmm, not that23:07
timelessit doesn't have scart in23:07
jacekowskitimeless: it does have sort of23:08
timelessso i don't see how it's useful23:08
kerionot *in*23:08
jacekowskinot in?23:08
jacekowskioh, that sucks23:08
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jacekowskithat's why i don't like apple23:08
timelesshttp://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html23:08
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timelessnah, scart is crap23:08
timelesshaving it is a sign of a bad product23:08
keriotimeless: pff, you should buy tv series from the iTunes Music Store!23:08
jacekowskishit should standarise on ethernet for everything23:09
timelesskerio: ...23:09
timelessi should buy my programming in finnish?23:09
jacekowskianyways23:09
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jacekowskii want to go and watch eureka23:09
timelessafter i agree to a finnish license agreement?23:09
timelessi'd ike to watch eureka23:09
timelessit runs here sometimes23:09
jacekowskiit runs on torrents for me23:09
jacekowskido you want http link for it?23:10
jacekowskifrom fast server all 3 seasons23:10
timelessnah, i like legal content23:10
keriobitmetv > http23:10
jacekowskiwell, it's legal23:10
timelessi get eureka legally here23:10
timelesshow?23:10
jacekowskiit's legal to record stuff23:10
jacekowskiand then share23:10
keriowell it's legal but it ain't 100% legal, they want you to l33ch from home or certain designated places23:11
timeless'share' has some restrictions23:11
timeless'broadcast' isn't allowed23:11
timelessslingbox is ok23:11
timelessi could probably make arrangements to sling from my parents..23:11
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timelessanyway, can we try a solution?23:12
timelessi want *something*23:12
timelessi don't want to lose more than ~600EUR for the solution23:12
keriotimeless: i think vmware/parallels will work23:12
keriotry the trial23:12
timelessi currently have one cinema display (17"?)23:12
timelesskerio: ok23:12
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timelesswait23:13
keriowell, it's less "think" and more "hope"23:13
timelesshrm, ok23:13
keriothey both offer trials iirc23:13
timelesshttps://nct.tryparallels.com/fulfill/0285.001 ?23:13
keriodunno23:13
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timelessright.. so...23:14
timelessmy mac is a G523:14
timelessrunning 10.5.<something>23:14
timelessit has firewire and usb...23:14
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timelessmy sound system uses optical audio23:14
timelessi want *something* which can work w/ optical audio23:15
timelessthat could be something which runs on the g5 (which is already using it)23:15
crashanddieoptical audio is useless23:15
keriooptical audio :/23:15
timelessi want something which can work w/ DVI (same as above) although i could live w/ HDMI if it didn't break the bank (see limit above)23:15
kerioyeah, don't know23:15
timelesscrashanddie: i hate cabling23:16
timelessoptical audio cabling <works>23:16
timelessexcept w/ idiotically designed boxes23:16
crashanddietimeless: until you step on it23:16
timeless(see handan cv7700)23:16
timelessi want something which can record a program M-F23:16
timelessor has at least 25 slots23:17
timelesswow, parallels requires 400+mb of disk space23:17
timelessanyway, where was my shopping list23:17
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timelesssupport for English UI :)23:18
timelesssupport for SAP and subtitles :o23:19
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ottoliere2hello23:19
ottoliere2!list23:19
GAN900timeless, clearly you need an Intel upgrade.23:19
keriotimeless: external bawks, or something for the mac?23:19
timelessability to hide channels which are locked23:19
GAN900Also: EyeTV?23:19
crashanddieottoliere2: wrong channel23:19
timelesskerio: not picky23:19
timelessgan900: we /think/ EyeTV requires an intel upgrade23:19
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timelesswhich more or less breaks the budget23:20
GAN900timeless, dunno about the latest.23:20
kerioit doesn't :/23:20
keriothe latest doesn't work on ppc23:20
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keriobut there's at least *one* version that works afaik23:20
GAN900I have an EyeTV 200 and 500 that worked on my dual 2.523:20
GAN900Maybe ebay?23:20
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timelessThis virtual hard disk cannot be processed because something is wrong with it. Please contact the Parallels support team for assistance.23:21
timelessyay!23:21
* timeless thinks this is fun23:22
keriolol23:22
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kerionew w7 install? :)23:22
timelessanyone have a sample parallels vm w/ some tiny linux i can try?23:22
timelessi don't have a license for that23:22
kerionew windows something install?23:23
crashanddietimeless: vmware fusion23:23
keriothere's something zen about installing VMs23:23
GAN900timeless, why Parallels?23:23
timelessgan900: because someone told me to try it23:23
timelessso i'm trying23:23
keriotry both23:23
GAN900VMWare is better these days.23:23
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* Arkenoi prefers virtualbox23:24
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timelessanyway, can someone point me to a linux based machine i could try that would actually work w/ parallels?23:24
timelessarkenoi: i use vbox23:24
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timelessbut it isn't working here for this stupid device23:24
timelessso i'm trying something else23:24
kerioi want a network of VMs23:24
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timelesseasily done23:25
MohammadAGstarted a small community ssu, upgrades the mp-fremantle-generic-pr package, current fixes: hildon-desktop, hildon-home, hildon-status-menu, hildon-application-manager23:25
keriotimeless: yeah but i cba actually making it23:26
StskeepsMohammadAG++, though i think it's a bit early23:26
crashanddiewith 2GB of free ram, you can easily run between 2 and 8 VMs, depending on the OS you're trying to run23:26
timelessooh23:26
timelessit offers me Download Chrome OS23:26
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timelessthat sounds liek a good thing to try23:26
MohammadAGI don't have any hopes for a PR1.3 anytime soon Stskeeps, anyways, it's meant to be a small experiment23:26
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Khertan_n900Hello guys !23:26
keriocute!23:26
kerioalthough Hexxeh's build is probably better23:27
MohammadAGStskeeps, plus I don't think it would conflict with PR1.3 when that comes out23:27
timelesss/liek/like/23:27
infobottimeless meant: that sounds like a good thing to try23:27
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keriotimeless: i herd u liek chromeos23:27
crashanddiekerio: I recycled an old machine running debian, with 4GB of RAM, and ran some 10 VMs on it23:27
timelessmohammadag: you're dreaming23:27
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MohammadAGtimeless, don't we all?23:27
crashanddiearen't we**23:27
keriothere's no spoon etc. etc.23:27
MohammadAGcrashanddie, whatever :)23:28
Khertan_n900I got an an strange error on Khweeteur ... application closed ... without any error segfault ... after many minutes or more23:28
* lcuk sighs23:28
* MohammadAG sighs back, I know I know23:28
Khertan_n900someone have an idea on how i can trace what happen ?23:28
timelessuse gdb snd attach and repeat23:29
Khertan_n900timeless on device ?23:29
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Khertan_n900gdb for a python apps23:29
Khertan_n900it s like using a rocket launcher to kill a moskito23:30
lcukbah tracy is @ a reception and jake is being a shitbag23:30
kerioKhertan: pdb23:30
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crashanddielcuk: what's he doing?23:31
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nice :-D23:31
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lcukjust not listening23:32
timelesssure23:32
timelessor use gdb-server23:32
crashanddielcuk: slap him?23:32
kerioit's a python app23:32
* lcuk doesn't think he can install gdb on jacob23:32
keriouse pdb23:32
lcuklol crashanddie nah23:33
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lcukhe doesnt like balloons23:33
lcukand the reception is full of them23:33
kerioballoon :323:33
crashanddielcuk: threathen him that if he doesn't stop, you'll never stop the icecream van ever again23:33
lcuklol23:33
lcukno, we walked 5km yesterday to find an ice cream van :)23:34
* lcuk won dad of the century for that one23:34
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DocScrutinizerI'd probably had to walk 500km to find one23:35
andre__Icecream van? Make mine a 99! :-P23:35
lcuklol23:35
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crashanddielcuk: you're the best there ever was ;)23:35
lcukwe don't normally have to search, he stops outside my window and deafens me normally23:35
lcukandre__, its gone dark23:35
lcukice cream men are like anti-vampires - you never see them out at night23:36
lcukcrashanddie, we had just gone for a short walk, but it turned into a whole epic trek, and as we got round corner from home this ice cream van was there, was like a mirage in the desert or something23:37
timelessok, parallels is booting chrome os23:37
crashanddie"I can see it, it's just there"23:37
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* DocScrutinizer muses why this icecream van concept is mostly unknown in Germany23:40
keriowe have actual ice cream here23:41
kerio:/23:41
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lcukDocScrutinizer, dunno23:43
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timelesswow23:44
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timelessparallels recognizes the name of my usb device23:44
timelessthat's better than OSX/VBox23:44
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timelessso, can someone explain how to use usb devices in parallels? :)23:49
timelessooh23:50
kerioclick usb icon, click device23:50
keriodevice gets connected to VM23:50
timelessparallels recognized my device attach and let me tell it i wanted to use it in the vm23:50
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xae8kooI was going to download 1,3 gb at burgerking, but I forgot and used the 3,5g network :(23:51
timelessfont sizes in chromeos are crap23:51
keriolol23:51
timelessdoes chromeos have a terminal?23:51
timelessi guess not?23:52
kerioi guess it has xterm?23:52
kerio\_O_/23:52
keriotry alt+f223:52
kerioor just, you know, ctrl+alt+f123:52
GAN900MohammadAG, cool.23:52
timelessum, how do i get rid of capture?23:53
timelessah, ctrla-lt23:54
keriortfm23:54
kerioand i mean that with all the love in the world :)23:54
timelesswhat m?23:54
kerioparallels' m, i guess23:54
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